# The (Beshitted) Fashion Industry



## Badgers (Jan 8, 2022)

Will start us off with this good example...


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## Sprocket. (Jan 8, 2022)

It’s obvious and disgraceful when you see the high street retail giants offering three t-shirts for. £6 for example.
We should be ashamed of the way we waste resources, but it continues and accelerates.


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## NoXion (Jan 8, 2022)

I'd support a tax on polyester and other nasty, shitty artificial fibres.


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## Artaxerxes (Jan 8, 2022)

NoXion said:


> I'd support a tax on polyester and other nasty, shitty artificial fibres.



Aye, plastic microfibres are fucking everywhere


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## l'Otters (Jan 8, 2022)

I tried to make a go of making clothing once upon a time, and could not compete with the prices of the mass produced market. 
The resource footprint of growing cotton is very high, it needs a lot of water. And then manmade fibres are another set of problems. 
It's a disaster. 
And what happens in western Europe has a knock on effect fucking up more sustainable local economies elswhere in the world -
The garment manufacturing industry in Ghana has been collapsing, skilled tailors out of their jobs, because surplus charity donations from places like the UK get shipped over there. 
We need to get rid of the negativity associated with wearing secondhand clothes here, for starters.


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## Artaxerxes (Jan 8, 2022)

l'Otters said:


> I tried to make a go of making clothing once upon a time, and could not compete with the prices of the mass produced market.
> The resource footprint of growing cotton is very high, it needs a lot of water. And then manmade fibres are another set of problems.
> It's a disaster.
> And what happens in western Europe has a knock on effect fucking up more sustainable local economies elswhere in the world -
> ...



The wife quite likes making her own stuff but fabric is an absolute money sink so she doesn't do it often. Just to fucking expensive.


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## Badgers (Jan 8, 2022)

l'Otters said:


> We need to get rid of the negativity associated with wearing secondhand clothes here, for starters


Not on any high horse but pretty much all* my clothes are second hand. Partly because I am a skinflint but also hate 'retail' shopping and the industry in general. 

* exceptions are pants and socks 

Also have picked up my last couple of shoes from Vinted which have been decent.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Aye, plastic microfibres are fucking everywhere


Loads of nanoplastics from tea bags too


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## Duncan2 (Jan 9, 2022)

It pains me to see piles of discarded clothing in the Atacama desert and fast fashion is indeed shit.Isnt it just a small part of a much bigger phenomenon though.Right here in Warwickshire I have only to look over a hedge to find myself peering in to a hole the size of the Grand Canyon.They take away the sand and gravel and fill up the hole with single use hedge trimmers,toasters and just about everything else from China and the far East.It would surely be better for the environment if we restricted ourselves to a more limited range of consumer goods manufactured locally and wore cotton uniforms.


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## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> It pains me to see piles of discarded clothing in the Atacama desert and fast fashion is indeed shit.Isnt it just a small part of a much bigger phenomenon though.Right here in Warwickshire I have only to look over a hedge to find myself peering in to a hole the size of the Grand Canyon.They take away the sand and gravel and fill up the hole with single use hedge trimmers,toasters and just about everything else from China and the far East.It would surely be better for the environment if we restricted ourselves to a more limited range of consumer goods manufactured locally and wore cotton uniforms.



What colour cotton uniforms?


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## Doctor Carrot (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> What colour cotton uniforms?


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## Edie (Jan 9, 2022)

Badgers said:


> Not on any high horse but pretty much all* my clothes are second hand. Partly because I am a skinflint but also hate 'retail' shopping and the industry in general.
> 
> * exceptions are pants and socks
> 
> Also have picked up my last couple of shoes from Vinted which have been decent.


My lad gets almost all his threads from Deepop. Mind you a pair of second hand jeans can set you back £80 😭


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## Duncan2 (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> What colour cotton uniforms?


Not orange definitely I had in mind the sort of clobber Chinese Communist party officials used to wear which looked practical though a bit frowsy.


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## mango5 (Jan 9, 2022)

Badgers said:


> Not on any high horse but pretty much all* my clothes are second hand. Partly because I am a skinflint but also hate 'retail' shopping and the industry in general.
> 
> * exceptions are pants and socks
> 
> Also have picked up my last couple of shoes from Vinted which have been decent.


I've found it harder to do cheaply in the last year or so but like you all my shoes and clothes bar underwear have been 'new to me' for the last 15 years. Being thrifty and not feeding the retail-industrial complex isn't taking the moral high ground. More of a 'you do what you will with your life and I do what I can with mine' approach.


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## campanula (Jan 9, 2022)

Have you tried Fabb Fashion, Edie. I have failed to wean sweetheart off denim love but at least he is paying £25 for second hand ones...(and they are always really great quality). Home sewing (and knitting) can be a spendy gig but if you are sneaky and prepared to take the manufacturing process a bit further back in the chain, money can also be saved, as well as having clothes which fit. I use a lot of second hand duvet sets (all cotton bedding is usually robust enough for summer frocks - you can get 2 or 3 out of a double duvet cover. Have not sniffed at second hand curtains either - currently planning  jacquard damask bloomers and (another) velvet cloak. Yarn can also be had much cheaper than spendy trendy yarn shops...and if you fancy having fun with dyes (and I do), making your own clothes has been revived in my household...mostly because charity shops are not the reliably cheap option anymore while jumble sales are a distant memory


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## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> It pains me to see piles of discarded clothing in the Atacama desert and fast fashion is indeed shit.Isnt it just a small part of a much bigger phenomenon though.Right here in Warwickshire I have only to look over a hedge to find myself peering in to a hole the size of the Grand Canyon.They take away the sand and gravel and fill up the hole with single use hedge trimmers,toasters and just about everything else from China and the far East.It would surely be better for the environment if we restricted ourselves to a more limited range of consumer goods manufactured locally and wore cotton uniforms.


Linen would be better as flax can be grown in the UK.


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## Duncan2 (Jan 10, 2022)

Haven't seen it as a crop but did notice some self-set flax growing at a nearby gravel-pit -an attractive plant i think.


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## StoneRoad (Jan 10, 2022)

Apart from under-crackers, sox and most of my shoes - the vast majority of my clothes are second hand, even my best winter coat was pre-owned.
I do, however, sometimes buy tee/sweat shirts to support charity / fundraising efforts and sometimes a decent outfit for special occasions / interviews and now the most recent is seeing a few outings at funerals.
My choice to buy "pre-loved" is partly 'cos I spent a lot of years pretty much skint with other things having a higher priority and partly 'cos I detest the throwaway aspect of keeping up with "fashion" trends.


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## Artaxerxes (Jan 10, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Haven't seen it as a crop but did notice some self-set flax growing at a nearby gravel-pit -an attractive plant i think.



Often a few fields growing around my way, it's remarkably pretty.


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## campanula (Jan 10, 2022)

It is a horrible process, tbh.  Was still a small peasant industry in my part of the world  until the 1930s and I have tried it myself (along with nettles and, more commonly hemp). True, it is a pretty plant (and I grow several species of linum) but fuck me, it has to be gathered, retted (soaked for days) dragged through steel combs, bashed to absolute fuck on trestles...before being  spun and woven. Think the (small and localised) Irish flax industry is still producing fine linen. I think it is mainly grown for linseed oil manufacture, rather than future fabric, in East Anglia.

There is such a fundamental disconnect between consumers and the processes involved in making...stuff. We expect to pay almost nothing with zero appreciation of the efforts involved in producing our clothes and food (essential requirements for life)...a huge carousel of waste (and exploitation), in every sense of the word.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 11, 2022)

NoXion said:


> I'd support a tax on polyester and other nasty, shitty artificial fibres.



Cotton isn't much better.  It's sprayed with more chemical inputs than nearly any other crop.  They even use Paraquat, which should have been banned ages ago.  Even worse, they use it right before harvest so the residue ends up in the cotton.  It has a proven link to Parkinson's Disease in agricultural workers.


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## Chilli.s (Jan 11, 2022)

Pants, socks, and footwear are new, but everything else has got to be secondhand for me. Fuck that fashion crap


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## WouldBe (Jan 11, 2022)

Badgers said:


> Will start us off with this good example...



What a fucking waste when there are thousands of people around the world that could make good use of them like refugees or victims of disasters that have lost everything. At the very least they could be shredded and recycled instead of just been dumped.


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## Reno (Jan 11, 2022)

WouldBe said:


> What a fucking waste when there are thousands of people around the world that could make good use of them like refugees or victims of disasters that have lost everything. At the very least they could be shredded and recycled instead of just been dumped.


 People donate plenty of clothes, I work at a centre for (amongst other things)  LGBTQ+ refugees and we get way more clothes than what we can cope with, much of it is of no use. Sending clothes to disaster zones actually creates a lot of extra work and can hinder relief efforts and then those places become dumping grounds for unwanted donations.









						Want to help after a disaster? Give cash, not clothing | Julia Brooks
					

Most of the stuff sent to disaster areas is inappropriate or useless. Get your wallet out instead so the professionals can buy what they need




					www.theguardian.com


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## Duncan2 (Jan 11, 2022)

Yeah-not much profit to be squeezed out of recycling clothes so its unlikely to happen despite all this Close the Loop spiel.


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## 8ball (Jan 11, 2022)

It’s a complicated mess and textiles are a massive environmental burden.  So much processing and toxic shit involved.

I always repair my clothes (have done for decades despite people thinking I’m fucking mental), though sometimes friends&fam think I must be poor as a church mouse and buy me new clothes.

Then I end up donating things to charity shops but they just end up polluting foreign climes in many instances.

There needs to be some kind of move away from “fashion” to “clothing”, but there’s so much money tied up in that industry.


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## Duncan2 (Jan 11, 2022)

The fashion industry now turbo-charged by sites like Instagram.


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## 8ball (Jan 11, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> The fashion industry now turbo-charged by sites like Instagram.



Maybe this Metaverse will be a good thing and when we’re all wearing sackcloth in our houses and only ever go out in cyberspace wearing our finest NFTs at least the environment will get a bit of a break.


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## bimble (Jan 11, 2022)

I love this little film. Worth a watch.


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## Artaxerxes (Jan 11, 2022)

Reno said:


> People donate plenty of clothes, I work at a centre for (amongst other things)  LGBTQ+ refugees and we get way more clothes than what we can cope with, much of it is of no use. Sending clothes to disaster zones actually creates a lot of extra work and can hinder relief efforts and then those places become dumping grounds for unwanted donations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It also fucks over local industries.


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## 8ball (Jan 11, 2022)

bimble said:


> I love this little film. Worth a watch.




Thanks - I’m only half way through but it’s brilliant and depressing so far.  I hope the slashers get away with liberating anything they take a liking to. 

Edit: watched it all now.  Great film and plenty to think about there.


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## WouldBe (Jan 11, 2022)

Reno said:


> People donate plenty of clothes, I work at a centre for (amongst other things)  LGBTQ+ refugees and we get way more clothes than what we can cope with, much of it is of no use. Sending clothes to disaster zones actually creates a lot of extra work and can hinder relief efforts and then those places become dumping grounds for unwanted donations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It must be possible with a bit of organising to sort the clothes so only suitable stuff is sent out.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 11, 2022)

WouldBe said:


> It must be possible with a bit of organising to sort the clothes so only suitable stuff is sent out.


Lots of work for the charity which then has to somehow get rid of the rest.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 11, 2022)

Reduce. reuse. recycle.  Always good advice

When it comes to clothes there is the options to mend and look after them, swap them, alter or remake them

Where possible wear things till they fall apart. Then make dusters.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 11, 2022)

Since lockdown I've made 2 pairs of pjs from an old duvet cover, another set of pjs from a old pair of curtains and a hoodie out of a 1960s sleeping bag.


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## WouldBe (Jan 11, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Lots of work for the charity which then has to somehow get rid of the rest.


Perhaps they could sort donations into t-shirts, jumpers, jackets etc when they receive them so if light weight clothing is required for warmer climates then they can easily pick suitable items to send out. It would also help in their shops as t-shirts and shorts will sell better in warmer weather than in colder weather etc.


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## WouldBe (Jan 11, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Since lockdown I've made 2 pairs of pjs from an old duvet cover, another set of pjs from a old pair of curtains and a hoodie out of a 1960s sleeping bag.


Which is alright if you have the skills (I do and have made clothes from scratch) but not everyone does. Do they even do domestic science in schools anymore?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jan 11, 2022)

My mate's mam made him a ski-jacket (back in the 80s when they were fashionable for kids) and I'm fairly sure there was some uh-huh, it isn't Kappa.
But he had a bespoke jacket. Which is worth more than a million Kappas.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 12, 2022)

WouldBe said:


> Perhaps they could sort donations into t-shirts, jumpers, jackets etc when they receive them so if light weight clothing is required for warmer climates then they can easily pick suitable items to send out. It would also help in their shops as t-shirts and shorts will sell better in warmer weather than in colder weather etc.


I'm sure they could figure that out themselves.

Charities still have to have have the staff to sort them, the space to store them and then probably still have to get rid of the unsuitable clothes.  Most charities benefit from donations of money rather than clothes even if clothes are required say in a refugee camp/ disaster, then the money can be spent locally and benefit the local economy too.

Please only give clothes to charities that request them.  If anyone is donating to charity shops  - then please only give washed, clean, undamaged clothes and don't leave them in a heap on the doorstep when the shop is closed. 

The problem is the sheer weight of unwanted clothes there is endless tons of cheap, clothing produced and bought and thrown away every year.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 12, 2022)

Very little percentage of all fabric is ever recycled and all the extra processing means they can be more expensive than new.

Synthetic fabrics will never rot. Natural fabrics like cotton and linen use lots water to grow bleach and other chemicals to process.  

It will literally cost us the earth.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 12, 2022)

WouldBe said:


> Which is alright if you have the skills (I do and have made clothes from scratch) but not everyone does. Do they even do domestic science in schools anymore?


I think its a life skill, like cooking and cleaning, that everyone should learn. I think it ought to be taught.  Certainly lots of young people seem to want to learn - I learned to sew in the old days in school but I learned to knit from younger women in my local stitch and bitch group.
It's an anidote to the consumer society


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## Dystopiary (Jan 12, 2022)

WouldBe there are textile recycling schemes now, some local councils take clean old clothes or fabric. Ours do.

Clothing & textiles | Recycle Now


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## bluescreen (Jan 12, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> WouldBe there are textile recycling schemes now, some local councils take clean old clothes or fabric. Ours do.
> 
> Clothing & textiles | Recycle Now


Yes, ours do too.

It's hard to know of any fabric that's environmentally friendly so we need to make stuff last as long as possible. Hard for those with fashion-conscious kids, I suspect.

We should all be relearning darning, practising other mending methods, even sashiko. Then the worn-out clothes can be swabs and dusters... 
I have a friend who turns her dead cotton duds into nosewipes, which she stores in a recycled Kleenex box and launders at low temp (adding one of those eco laundry sanitisers).


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## WouldBe (Jan 12, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> WouldBe there are textile recycling schemes now, some local councils take clean old clothes or fabric. Ours do.
> 
> Clothing & textiles | Recycle Now


Don't round here but is a collection point at local recycling center. Not sure any of those will collect from the Atacama desert though.


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## WouldBe (Jan 12, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Synthetic fabrics will never rot.


May not rot but some plastics will break down due to UV in sunlight which there is plenty of in Atacama desert. Not sure if that would also affect polyester.

There's always the option of using them as biofuels and burning them to generate electricity rather than simply dumping them all over the place.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jan 13, 2022)

Surprised no-one has added this in to the Molly-Mae controversy!


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## campanula (Jan 13, 2022)

what's that, then, Johnny Vodka ?


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## Johnny Vodka (Jan 13, 2022)

campanula said:


> what's that, then, Johnny Vodka











						Molly-Mae Hague under fire for resurfaced comments
					

Molly-Mae had been talking Dragons' Den's newest star Steven Bartlett on his The Diary Of A CEO podcast




					www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
				




Love Island contestant and CEO of a fast fashion company.


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## sparkybird (Jan 15, 2022)

I sew and used to think that cotton/natural fabric was the best, but actually as mentioned above, it has a huge environmental impact. And synthetics do have a place: they dry quicker, are stain resistant and wick moisture better. Manufacturers are now starting to produce these fabrics made from recycled materials and they are excellent quality.

But the overall answer just had to be for people to buy less stuff. Easy to say, but the whole industry is geared to making and selling more. It's quite depressing when I see how many clothes my friends have and then still buy more. And they're not teenagers ☹️


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## sparkybird (Jan 15, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Lots of work for the charity which then has to somehow get rid of the rest.


Exactly. I volunteer for a homeless charity and you should see the stuff that gets donated. Evening dresses, flimsy tops, lots of children's stuff and even dressing up outfits! 
I think people offload this stuff so they feel less guilty about buying more crap


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 15, 2022)

sparkybird said:


> Exactly. I volunteer for a homeless charity and you should see the stuff that gets donated. Evening dresses, flimsy tops, lots of children's stuff and even dressing up outfits!
> I think people offload this stuff so they feel less guilty about buying more crap



One thing that I remember from the hurricane that devastated Puerto Rico was seeing all the clothing donated.  They'd just piled it up on the tarmac.  It was multiple stories tall and ran the length of an airstrip.  You could see high heel shoes and fancy dresses in the mix.  They had no safe water to drink, no food to eat, and no fuel to get any of it with, but they were set for the prom.


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## 8ball (Jan 16, 2022)

sparkybird said:


> I think people offload this stuff so they feel less guilty about buying more crap



Yeah, I don’t think many would disagree there.


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## Dogsauce (Jan 16, 2022)

Boot sales are still good for second hand stuff for a pittance, easy to get jeans for a quid etc, people more or less just giving stuff away, unless you’re at one of those small hipster type sales where they pretend everything is vintage priceless heirlooms.

Charity shops round here just seem full of Asda jeans for eight quid which probably cost around that new, £5 T-shirts etc.  For a long time I would barely get anything new but have eased off in recent years though don’t buy much - band T-shirts have always been the exception for which I have an extensive archive going back to 1987.

I just hate the fucking fatuous drivel of the fashion industry though, it all seems such bullshit and has become hyper capitalist, wear-and-throw-away culture.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Feb 2, 2022)

One of the more perverse attributes of fast fashion is how cheap it is for companies to print t-shirts and give them away.  Over the last month, I've been presented with three free t-shirts.  Got one today just for going to the dentist.  Now, I'm just as guilty as anyone else because I could say no, but I take the t-shirt anyway.  The lure of "free" stuff.


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## Duncan2 (Feb 2, 2022)

Astonishing amount of waste generated just in the process of advertising their supposedly eco-friendly manufacturing processes


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## 8ball (Feb 2, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> One of the more perverse attributes of fast fashion is how cheap it is for companies to print t-shirts and give them away.  Over the last month, I've been presented with three free t-shirts.  Got one today just for going to the dentist.  Now, I'm just as guilty as anyone else because I could say no, but I take the t-shirt anyway.  The lure of "free" stuff.



I never get free t-shirts but as a kid I had a great collection of baseball caps advertising manufacturers of cranes and marine gearboxes.


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## Badgers (Feb 6, 2022)

The fast fashion graveyard in a desert
					

Tens of thousands of tonnes of unwanted clothing from Europe and the US are being dumped in the Atacama Desert every year.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Pickman's model (Feb 7, 2022)

Badgers said:


> The fast fashion graveyard in a desert
> 
> 
> Tens of thousands of tonnes of unwanted clothing from Europe and the US are being dumped in the Atacama Desert every year.
> ...


see it's taken them a month to catch up with your op


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## YouSir (Feb 7, 2022)

sparkybird said:


> I sew and used to think that cotton/natural fabric was the best, but actually as mentioned above, it has a huge environmental impact. And synthetics do have a place: they dry quicker, are stain resistant and wick moisture better. Manufacturers are now starting to produce these fabrics made from recycled materials and they are excellent quality.
> 
> But the overall answer just had to be for people to buy less stuff. Easy to say, but the whole industry is geared to making and selling more. It's quite depressing when I see how many clothes my friends have and then still buy more. And they're not teenagers ☹️



Organic (GOTs) certified cotton has a lesser negative effect but it's still a fairly bad thing to be growing, even without the chemicals usually involved. Alternative materials can be just as bad though, especially given the near non-existent environmental and working standards requirements in this country. People can label almost anything as almost anything, no one really checks. GOTs and FairWear certification should be minimum requirements rather than optional.


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## pug (Feb 8, 2022)

Badgers said:


> The fast fashion graveyard in a desert
> 
> 
> Tens of thousands of tonnes of unwanted clothing from Europe and the US are being dumped in the Atacama Desert every year.
> ...


Ghana is the same, mountains of the stuff, wild fires in it burning continually, an undeniable environmental disaster zone at the dumps.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Feb 8, 2022)

Badgers said:


> The fast fashion graveyard in a desert
> 
> 
> Tens of thousands of tonnes of unwanted clothing from Europe and the US are being dumped in the Atacama Desert every year.
> ...



I keep looking at that, after being raised by Depression-era parents, and think there has to be some way to use that.  I would think it could all be shredded and used for insulation, rugs, incorporated into paper products, etc.  I know there's probably cost/benefit reasons why this isn't happening, or it shows the sheer volume of the problem.  Or, maybe my American is showing, and I look at it and think "there has to be a way to make a buck off that."  Either way, it's a horrible waste.


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## Johnny Vodka (Feb 24, 2022)

Influencers & fast fashion









						Hustle and hype: the truth about the influencer economy
					

The long read: More and more young people are enticed by the glittering promises of a career as an influencer – but it’s usually someone else getting rich




					www.theguardian.com


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## SpookyFrank (Feb 25, 2022)

Reno said:


> People donate plenty of clothes, I work at a centre for (amongst other things)  LGBTQ+ refugees and we get way more clothes than what we can cope with, much of it is of no use. Sending clothes to disaster zones actually creates a lot of extra work and can hinder relief efforts and then those places become dumping grounds for unwanted donations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Having had the job of sorting through donated clothes in Calais, at least 90% of which were useless, I very much agree with this. The stuff would often accumulate faster than we could drive it to the dump.


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## romeo2001 (Feb 26, 2022)

Dogsauce said:


> Boot sales are still good for second hand stuff for a pittance, easy to get jeans for a quid etc, people more or less just giving stuff away, unless you’re at one of those small hipster type sales where they pretend everything is vintage priceless heirlooms.
> 
> Charity shops round here just seem full of Asda jeans for eight quid which probably cost around that new, £5 T-shirts etc.  For a long time I would barely get anything new but have eased off in recent years though don’t buy much - band T-shirts have always been the exception for which I have an extensive archive going back to 1987.
> 
> I just hate the fucking fatuous drivel of the fashion industry though, it all seems such bullshit and has become hyper capitalist, wear-and-throw-away culture.


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## campanula (Feb 26, 2022)

I don't buy clothes at all, if I can help it but now find I am in the mortifying position of flitting about the allotment in some sub-prom silky items, partnered with ancient woolly jumpers and immortal tweedy jackets. All of my serviceable daily clothes have been worn to rags, forcing me to delve into the depths of my clothing baskets. All well and good if I had to take a turn in some 80s disco revival but ludicrous for a trip to Tesco. I can see the bottom of the drawers, having downgraded all my useful tops into shoe-polishing rags and dishcloths. Charity shops are a nightmare of overpriced tat and my sewing skills, while useful, tend towards the ridiculous (cloaks, bloomers, kirtles and hopelessly fanciful bits of fluff). Once again, considering the virtues of decorators overalls and boilersuits although utilitarian drab is not really any sort of personal choice. Most useful items at the moment are my winter nighties, woolly tights (holey) and wellies (waterproof)..


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## BristolEcho (Feb 26, 2022)

Have bought some new clothes today. Sorry planet X 

Should hopefully last me many years though.


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## Dogsauce (Feb 27, 2022)

One problem is that brands that people used to trust as producing reasonable quality stuff that would last are now nearly all churning out the same cheaply made shit that falls apart in months. This is exactly what venture capitalist types do, exploit people’s trust in brands while putting out shit for as long as they can get away with it. 

The gf gets enraged with the quality of some stuff she’s bought from places like Zara in recent years, stuff that hasn’t been cheap or anything. People end up feeling let down.

I can sort of understand why people buy stuff from places like Primark/Asda/Lefties etc as at least their under no illusion that they’re buying quality and not being ripped off. Still shitty and wasteful though.


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## Johnny Vodka (Feb 27, 2022)

BristolEcho said:


> Have bought some new clothes today. Sorry planet X
> 
> Should hopefully last me many years though.





Dogsauce said:


> One problem is that brands that people used to trust as producing reasonable quality stuff that would last are now nearly all churning out the same cheaply made shit that falls apart in months. This is exactly what venture capitalist types do, exploit people’s trust in brands while putting out shit for as long as they can get away with it.
> 
> The gf gets enraged with the quality of some stuff she’s bought from places like Zara in recent years, stuff that hasn’t been cheap or anything. People end up feeling let down.
> 
> I can sort of understand why people buy stuff from places like Primark/Asda/Lefties etc as at least their under no illusion that they’re buying quality and not being ripped off. Still shitty and wasteful though.



I have stuff from River Island/ Next that I've worn for years.  Most of us stop wearing stuff because it's out of fashion rather than it being knackered.


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## BristolEcho (Feb 27, 2022)

Dogsauce said:


> One problem is that brands that people used to trust as producing reasonable quality stuff that would last are now nearly all churning out the same cheaply made shit that falls apart in months. This is exactly what venture capitalist types do, exploit people’s trust in brands while putting out shit for as long as they can get away with it.
> 
> The gf gets enraged with the quality of some stuff she’s bought from places like Zara in recent years, stuff that hasn’t been cheap or anything. People end up feeling let down.
> 
> I can sort of understand why people buy stuff from places like Primark/Asda/Lefties etc as at least their under no illusion that they’re buying quality and not being ripped off. Still shitty and wasteful though.


That's one of the reasons I went into town and actually touched the cargo trousers and shorts I wanted. My last online venture was definitely not a success. Normally I wouldn't bother to go the physical shop.

Ended up being Next which I don't usually find anything I like in.

I absolutely understand why people buy things in Primark. Ultimately if you're skint and you need something you are going to go for the easiest and cheapest route even if it doesn't work out long term. Nothing wrong with that.


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## pinkmonkey (Feb 27, 2022)

We sometimes buy Primark, but it gets worn until it falls apart. Then cut up for rags for the engine. I am wearing it now pjs with a turtle neck top so I dont gee a stiff neck. El jugs wears their long sleeved t shirts . The thing with Primark, they work on a grocers margin and don’t have quality controllers. That’s why they’re cheap. Some of their product will last, some of it falls apart in store. It’s knowing which. @andreachong_ on tiktok explains how to inspect garments instore  in order to tell whether something is well made or not. Like others I hate how we think it’s ok to bombard other countries with our cast offs, it’s psychotic. Why do we think that a skinny/starving woman in a war  zone in the middle of a freezing winter needs our size 18 Boohoo £5 lycra party dress? Thats the other thing, we Western nations, we are not the same clothes size as these countries we are donating to, we are much bigger and taller. Many countries in Africa now impose large taxes on second hand clothing imports. Because they don’t want our crap.  It’s better to flog it here (if thats even possible) and donate the money.


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## NoXion (Apr 5, 2022)

Apparently as nice as cotton is, it's rather water intensive. What's the verdict on hemp fibre?

I bought a long-sleeved t-shirt made out of hemp recently. Felt a bit itchy at first (including what felt like a fragment of stem that I pulled out), but that went away after the first couple of washes with fabric conditioner.


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## l'Otters (Apr 5, 2022)

iirc hemp is much better for eco impacts on pretty much every measure if you’re getting something that’s made from new fibres.


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## muscovyduck (Apr 5, 2022)

How does hemp feel on the skin? It's non-synthetic right?


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## WouldBe (Apr 5, 2022)

muscovyduck said:


> How does hemp feel on the skin? It's non-synthetic right?


No idea how it feels but it's made from canabis (and related plants) stems.


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## 8ball (Apr 6, 2022)

muscovyduck said:


> How does hemp feel on the skin? It's non-synthetic right?



Pretty much like rope.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 6, 2022)

The other fiber to consider is bamboo.  I've used it for crochet projects and its texture is decent.  TBH, I haven't checked out how environmentally sound it is, but it's certainly easy to grow and plentiful.  The only issue I had with it was that it doesn't stretch well.  The texture seemed soft enough.


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## muscovyduck (Apr 6, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> The other fiber to consider is bamboo.  I've used it for crochet projects and its texture is decent.  TBH, I haven't checked out how environmentally sound it is, but it's certainly easy to grow and plentiful.  The only issue I had with it was that it doesn't stretch well.  The texture seemed soft enough.


Bamboo is semi-synthetic so if you're the kind of person (like me) who finds their super-sensitive skin getting shreded into oblivion when you wear anything other than cotton, linen, or silk then it might be one to either use in moderation or avoid. But it's definitely better than completely synthetic fibers and for most use cases this is good enough. 

I would say I have bamboo fiber face-cloths and I really like them, softer than the cotton ones I have. I haven't tried bamboo fiber clothing

Semi-synthetic is an interesting category and one to be aware of if you're looking to make slow changes to your wardrobe in the direction of being environmentally friendly with minimal effort. There's some familiar textiles in there most people probably assume are completely synthetic


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## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 6, 2022)

muscovyduck said:


> Bamboo is semi-synthetic so if you're the kind of person (like me) who finds their super-sensitive skin getting shreded into oblivion when you wear anything other than cotton, linen, or silk then it might be one to either use in moderation or avoid. But it's definitely better than completely synthetic fibers and for most use cases this is good enough.
> 
> I would say I have bamboo fiber face-cloths and I really like them, softer than the cotton ones I have. I haven't tried bamboo fiber clothing
> 
> Semi-synthetic is an interesting category and one to be aware of if you're looking to make slow changes to your wardrobe in the direction of being environmentally friendly with minimal effort. There's some familiar textiles in there most people probably assume are completely synthetic



Thanks!  I didn't know that.  What constitutes a designation of "semi-synthetic"?


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## 8ball (Apr 6, 2022)

Tbf I was a little unkind to hemp above, but I found it’s better not directly next to the skin.  I’m talking about stuff bought at festivals - there’s probably some expensive stuff that is fine.

It does seem to shed lots of tiny fibres too.


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## 8ball (Apr 6, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Thanks!  I didn't know that.  What constitutes a designation of "semi-synthetic"?



Many kinds of bamboo clothing involves fibres that have been chemically broken down and re-assembled.

This process comes at a certain environmental cost.

This is not true of all bamboo clothing - where this is not the case it will usually be significantly more expensive and they will usually be keen to make a point of the fact.


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## muscovyduck (Apr 6, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Thanks!  I didn't know that.  What constitutes a designation of "semi-synthetic"?


Glad it's helpful, I think semi-synthetic fabrics might be a sort of cultural 'forgotten knowledge' that was common knowledge back in the mid-20th century

I just found this site 3 Basic Types of Fabric: Synthetic Fiber, Semi-Synthetic Fiber, & Natural Fiber Defined that has a small section on semi-synthetic fabric

Rayon, viscose, and modal are all semi-synthetic

The article also helpfully confirmed hemp is natural


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## 8ball (Apr 6, 2022)

muscovyduck said:


> Glad it's helpful, I think semi-synthetic fabrics might be a sort of cultural 'forgotten knowledge' that was common knowledge back in the mid-20th century
> 
> I just found this site 3 Basic Types of Fabric: Synthetic Fiber, Semi-Synthetic Fiber, & Natural Fiber Defined that has a small section on semi-synthetic fabric
> 
> ...



Indeed, most “bamboo” fibres are actually a form of Rayon or sometimes viscose produced from bamboo as the raw ingredient.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 6, 2022)

8ball said:


> Many kinds of bamboo clothing involves fibres that have been chemically broken down and re-assembled.
> 
> This process comes at a certain environmental cost.
> 
> This is not true of all bamboo clothing - where this is not the case it will usually be significantly more expensive and they will usually be keen to make a point of the fact.



Thanks, that makes sense.  I've made cordage before from nettle plants and I (mistakenly) assumed that the process would be similar for bamboo.


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## l'Otters (Apr 6, 2022)

I love that thread can be made from nettles. 
The fabric is called ramie I think. 
Nettles spring up everywhere, wonder what it would be like to try and grow a lot of it and process into a bolt of fabric.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 6, 2022)

l'Otters said:


> I love that thread can be made from nettles.
> The fabric is called ramie I think.
> Nettles spring up everywhere, wonder what it would be like to try and grow a lot of it and process into a bolt of fabric.



Just making cordage was a shitload of work.


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## l'Otters (Apr 6, 2022)

I think processing cotton is pretty labour intensive too.

I had a go at spinning from a variety of different fibres once, flax & ramie is all I can remember. It was already in tufty bundles, I think they were called "tops". so a bunch of the work had been done.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 6, 2022)

l'Otters said:


> I think processing cotton is pretty labour intensive too.
> 
> I had a go at spinning from a variety of different fibres once, flax & ramie is all I can remember. It was already in tufty bundles, I think they were called "tops". so a bunch of the work had been done.



Yeah, I tried spinning flax and it was difficult.  I ended up adding mineral oil to get it to spin right.  Wool is much easier to spin.


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## l'Otters (Apr 6, 2022)

Oh curious. I didn't try with wool, just the flax and ramie. I enjoyed it a lot, it was magical. But it was a one off, not a serious endeavour.


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## Johnny Vodka (Apr 8, 2022)

Unreported World about fast fashion on ch4 right now.


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## Duncan2 (Apr 8, 2022)

And what we see are the familiar scenes of clothing waste from Europe no doubt with a half-life of a couple of centuries piled up in mountains on the beaches of one of the poorest countries in the world-Ghana.The scale of it is mind boggling and horrifying. It would be interesting to know what proportion of that detritus was originally left at clothing shops perhaps in exchange for a money-off voucher by customers who had been persuaded that by "closing the loop" they were doing their bit in terms of recycling and saving the planet


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## sparkybird (Apr 10, 2022)

I've never heard of Shein (coz I'm old) but it's now valued at more than Zara and H and M combined.
Most of their returns end up in landfill because it's cheaper than processing them. 
How can this be right? 








						Shein: the unacceptable face of throwaway fast fashion
					

The clothing giant is raking in the profits with its supercharged ‘test and repeat’ model but at what cost to those producing its cheap lines – and to the planet?




					www.theguardian.com


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## ruffneck23 (Apr 10, 2022)

This thread just came up on my 'new posts' bit.

I miss Badgers


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## NoXion (Apr 11, 2022)

muscovyduck said:


> How does hemp feel on the skin? It's non-synthetic right?



My long-sleeved hemp T-shirt felt a bit itchy at first, but this went away after a couple of washes. I'm happy with how it feels since then. It's a breathable material and wicks away sweat nicely, which keeps its insulating properties between washes. It cost about £20 from a specialist shop. I imagine that price could be brought lower if more clothing manufacturers were incentivised to produce hemp instead of artificial fibres.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 11, 2022)

8ball said:


> Indeed, most “bamboo” fibres are actually a form of Rayon or sometimes viscose produced from bamboo as the raw ingredient.



Also bamboo socks last a couple of months at best IME. Got to factor that into the environmental cost.


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## muscovyduck (Apr 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also bamboo socks last a couple of months at best IME. Got to factor that into the environmental cost.


I tried very high cotton content socks and had the same problem. Not tried a different brand yet so unsure if they were duds or if it's just a problem with the textile. I've found the same high cotton blend in tights is great and actually they last longer that other tights (and are easier to mend)


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## WouldBe (Apr 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also bamboo socks last a couple of months at best IME. Got to factor that into the environmental cost.


Use thicker bamboo.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> socks


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## YouSir (Apr 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also bamboo socks last a couple of months at best IME. Got to factor that into the environmental cost.



Different brands vary and some have a higher or lower content of bamboo viscose mixed in with other stuff. Find the right brand and they last as well as any socks.

Bamboo also uses a third as much water as cotton, no insecticides or pesticides and grows on marginal land, rather than needing good agricultural areas. So, plenty of good to outweigh the processing imo. Also a viable replacement in construction and other day to day materials.


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