# Nottingham: Trams, Tories & Alternatives



## JHE (Jun 5, 2009)

Nottinghamshire County Council has fallen to the Tories.  It wasn't entirely unexpected.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/8085357.stm

The Tories have been threatening that if they took control on the County Council, they would block the planned extensions of the tram system to Attenborough and to Clifton.

From the Beeb news article linked above:

_Speaking before the votes were counted, the Conservatives said they could withdraw £28m of funding promised for the current tram extension if they took control of the council. 

Mrs Cutts_ [Dickens couldn't have invented a better name!] _said: "It is not a definite no, but it is a no as long as they stick with the current route. 

"The current route is too expensive and too damaging. We are against the route, not the form of transport." _​
Does anyone here know more about the Tories position?  It is not clear to me.  I had thought that they were completely opposed to the proposed extensions, but the quote there could be interpreted as their being willing to support extensions to Attenborough and to Clifton if some changes are made to the exact routes.  (Alternatively, they could be saying in a rather mealy mouthed way that they don't want the extensions.)


Also, what do you think of the proposed extensions?

Here's my (very ambivalent) take on it:

1.  I love the tram system.  It's excellent public transport.  It's also far too limited.  If you happen to live on the route (as I do), it's likely to be really useful to you.  On the other hand, there are lots of people living in or near the city who probably find little use in it.  The tram system should be extended.  Extensions to Clifton and to Attenborough seem like a really good idea.  What's more, building the extensions and running them once they are built will be good for employment.

2.  Building a tram system must be fantastically expensive.  Maybe there are much cheaper ways of setting up a good public transport system - more bus lanes and more frequent buses running on them, say - that should be preferred.  Use the money for other things.  There is no shortage of useful purposes to which the millions could be put.  What's more the cheaper options for a good public transport system could probably be implemented much more quickly.


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## Maidmarian (Jun 6, 2009)

The Tories aren't in a position to block the tram (not yet anyway)--- Kay Cutts (& the name suits her) has only said that she will (possibly) block the County's contribution to lines 2 & 3, which is aprox 5% of the total funding.

(Line 3 btw is projected to run from Nottm station via Beeston & Chilwell to Bardill's island , not to Attenborough.)

I am very much in favour of the tram extensions , although I would like to see a connection to Beeston station & for line 3 to continue on past Bardill's & nearer to Junct 25 of the M1 to absorb more of the incoming traffic.

The big advantages of the tram are :

guaranteed journey time (Beeston to W Bridgford can take almost 2 hrs at peak times, on the tram it would be 40mins)

fewer nasties emitted into the air & much higher usage of public transport --- folks will use the tram who will not get out of their cars to use the bus.

However , there's an organization called BACIT (Beeston & Chilwell for Integrated Transport ) which has a website & contains more info & technical detail & has been campaigning for the tram for years.

http://www.bacit.org/


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## mattie (Jun 6, 2009)

The missus' folk live on the Derby Road out past Beeston, they studiously avoid going into the city at rush hour as the road past Woolaton Park is jammed solid and the bus lane doesn't extend to that section.  A tram would really help, and would be handy for a few beers in the town centre now that they've knocked the local down and the buses are so infrequent.  

Seeing as I live in Bath I've little else to add to the thread.  Sorry.


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## Maidmarian (Jun 6, 2009)

mattie said:


> Seeing as I live in Bath I've little else to add to the thread.  Sorry.



Cheers !


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## obanite (Jun 7, 2009)

I think the tram's great, I'm lucky enough to live close enough to use it semi-regularly at the moment though the bus stop is still closer so it depends where I'm going and what time it is.

To be honest I find Nottingham's public transport to be pretty decent as it is, though an E-W tram route would be good.


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## mauvais (Jun 7, 2009)

I've never quite understood the point of trams in Nottingham. The buses are pretty good and it's also excellent for cycling. I suppose the big thing is it's more like a train than a bus so certain types of people are more prone to using it.


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## Maidmarian (Jun 8, 2009)

mauvais said:


> I've never quite understood the point of trams in Nottingham. The buses are pretty good and it's also excellent for cycling. I suppose the big thing is it's more like a train than a bus so certain types of people are more prone to using it.



Nottm public transport is good ---- but the traffic congestion is awful & at peak times the journey -time is ridiculous --- I used to commute from Beeston to W Bridgford & it took over 3 hrs a day--- EVERY day to do the journey. In part , this is due to the geography of the place , but anything which can tempt folks out of their cars is a good idea imo.


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## Supine (Jul 1, 2009)

Maidmarian said:


> guaranteed journey time (Beeston to W Bridgford can take almost 2 hrs at peak times, on the tram it would be 40mins)



20-25 minutes on a bike. Canal style. No cars to deal with for 95% of the journey.


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## Dr. Furface (Jul 2, 2009)

mauvais said:


> I've never quite understood the point of trams in Nottingham.


I've never used them, but they look good, and give the place a bit of a continental vibe. And it's just one more thing that Nottingham has over Derby!


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## lang rabbie (Jul 2, 2009)

Maidmarian said:


> Nottm public transport is good ---- but the traffic congestion is awful & at peak times the journey -time is ridiculous --- I used to commute from Beeston to W Bridgford & it took over 3 hrs a day--- EVERY day to do the journey. In part , this is due to the geography of the place , but anything which can tempt folks out of their cars is a good idea imo.



It used to take me 48 minutes on the bus each way from Imperial Road to Trent Bridge House via the city centre in 1989 - it surely can't have got that much worse given the investment in bus priority at traffic lights sinxw then


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## Maidmarian (Jul 6, 2009)

lang rabbie said:


> It used to take me 48 minutes on the bus each way from Imperial Road to Trent Bridge House via the city centre in 1989 - it surely can't have got that much worse given the investment in bus priority at traffic lights sinxw then



Ah ----- those were the days (No 12 bus from the end of my road to the door of work ---- sigh) 

Now it's from here to the City , walk across city , 20 mins wait & then onto 2nd bus. 

Tram would be 20 mins.

And yes , the traffic has gotten MUCH worse too , despite bus lanes (the A52 bus lane isn't continuous & University boulevard is like a car-park at peak times).

eta : WHAT bus priority at traffic lights ??


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## rioted (Jul 6, 2009)

mauvais said:


> ......so certain types of people are more prone to using it.


That's the one. 

Those people who drive in and park at the Forest park&ride site just for those last two stops. Either Park out of town and don't clog up our neighbourhood with totally unnecessary traffic or walk the last few hundred yards you lazy sods.


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## JHE (Jul 6, 2009)

rioted said:


> That's the one.
> 
> Those people who drive in and park at the Forest park&ride site just for those last two stops. Either Park out of town and don't clog up our neighbourhood with totally unnecessary traffic or walk the last few hundred yards you lazy sods.



I don't think there is much traffic congestion in the area around the Forest Park & Ride.  (Perhaps I'm so used to London standards of traffic jams that we have different views of these things.)

It's much better to have people parking at the Forest and at other Park & Ride places than have them drive into the centre of town and try to park... I'm not sure where.

I suppose you could have Park & Ride places and bus services instead of trams, but the trams are usually very quick and reliable.

(Walking into town from the Forest, instead of getting the tram, takes a lot longer.)


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## Maidmarian (Jul 8, 2009)

I'll leave rioted to answer that as he lives near there , but we all seem to agree that the tram is a great idea , let's hope the Tories can't stop it !


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## rioted (Jul 8, 2009)

JHE said:


> I suppose you could have Park & Ride places and bus services instead of trams, but the trams are usually very quick and reliable.
> 
> (Walking into town from the Forest, instead of getting the tram, takes a lot longer.)


There are tram park & ride sites further out than the Forest - Wilkinson Street, Phoenix Park and Hucknall. Why drive further into town? Why use part of the Forest RECREATION GROUND as a fucking car park? Why have a car park for thousands of cars directly opposite a school? Or in the middle of a residential area plagued with rat runs even before the tram?

A lot longer? If I pass the Forest tram stop and the indicator says next tram 6 minutes, I can beat it into town without breaking into a sweat. OK, some people who park there may have disabilities, but the vast majority are lazy, impatient and anti-social fuckwits. Fact.


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## Maidmarian (Jul 11, 2009)

Yay !!!!! --- latest news :

It now looks as though nothing short of a major earthquake can stop the tram now !!!http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/h...extension/article-1156678-detail/article.html

eta link.


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