# Marvel's Jessica Jones - Netflix Original Series



## The Octagon (Nov 18, 2015)

Full Series released on Netflix UK and US this Friday at 8am, all the early reviews and word of mouth suggest a very good, dark and well-written show. Starring Kristen Ritter (Breaking Bad) as the former superhero-turned-self-destructive P.I., Carrie-Anne Moss (Matrix, Memento) and David Tennant as a particularly twisted villain.





Might be binge-watching this I feel.

Perhaps the use of spoiler tag to show which episodes people are up to after the first episode? Or free-for-all and folk exercise restraint til they've seen the whole thing?


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## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2015)

hmm. Hard to know where is fair to draw the line of spoileration here. If its any good* I'll likely do as with Daredevil and box sets etc, 2-3 eps a week. Perhaps the best way is for all spoiler tags after episode 1 to be labelled 'spoiler for episode x' ? might work


*and I was sold by the trailer, but we'll see.


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## FiFi (Nov 18, 2015)

How "dark" is it? The Resident Teen loves a female superhero!


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## The Octagon (Nov 18, 2015)

FiFi said:


> How "dark" is it? The Resident Teen loves a female superhero!



It's not really a traditional superhero TV show, the comic it's based on was very much adult-focused.

It's probably going to be similar to Daredevil in terms of violence, but with added sex, both graphic consensual scenes and definite allusions to rape / sexual abuse (the main villain can make people do whatever he wants and abuses this power).

Apparently it's not handled in a gratuitous way, but hard to know until you've seen the first ep or two I'd imagine.


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## FiFi (Nov 18, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> It's not really a traditional superhero TV show, the comic it's based on was very much adult-focused.
> 
> It's probably going to be similar to Daredevil in terms of violence, but with added sex, both graphic consensual scenes and definite allusions to rape / sexual abuse (the main villain can make people do whatever he wants and abuses this power).
> 
> Apparently it's not handled in a gratuitous way, but hard to know until you've seen the first ep or two I'd imagine.


Thank you
The Teen is 16 so I should at least discuss it with her, if not vet it first!


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## 8den (Nov 18, 2015)

FiFi said:


> How "dark" is it? The Resident Teen loves a female superhero!



Hard to say. As the Octogon said a major plotline and theme is sexual assault, but in a superpowered way. Most blogs/review sites that have previewed it are already raving about it, and Daredevil was just about the best thing Marvel have produced in years, so fingers crossed. 

Get the teen to watch Agent Carter (if she's not already) it's really really good.


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## FiFi (Nov 18, 2015)

8den said:


> Hard to say. As the Octogon said a major plotline and theme is sexual assault, but in a superpowered way. Most blogs/review sites that have previewed it are already raving about it, and Daredevil was just about the best thing Marvel have produced in years, so fingers crossed.
> 
> *Get the teen to watch Agent Carter (if she's not already) it's really really good*.



She is already a huge Fan - she has a T-Shirt to prove it!


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## 8den (Nov 20, 2015)

Watched the 1st episode. 



Spoiler



totally unneccasry lesbianness with Trinity


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## Bob_the_lost (Nov 20, 2015)

Less violence/dark than Daredevil but in the same dark vein.


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## Reno (Nov 20, 2015)

8den said:


> Watched the 1st episode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why is it unnecessary and why does this need to be spoilered ? Gay characters are still under-represented on mainstream TV shows. They are especially needed in shows which don't primarily deal with sexuality and minority issues.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 20, 2015)

Reno said:


> Why is it unnecessary and why does this need to be spoilered ? Gay characters are still under-represented on mainstream TV shows. They are especially needed in shows which don't primarily deal with sexuality and minority issues.


the spoilering is because it will all be watched at different paces. Hence why I suggested spoiler titles indicate which episode number the content refers to. Iyswim


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## 8den (Nov 20, 2015)

Reno said:


> Why is it unnecessary and why does this need to be spoilered ? Gay characters are still under-represented on mainstream TV shows. They are especially needed in shows which don't primarily deal with sexuality and minority issues.



I didn't want to spoil the plot, incase it becomes relevant. It seemed unnecessarily shoved in there. It may become relevant and I'll happily retract it, but it does seem to me, that IF gay characters are included in drama, the preference is for attractive lesbians as it's less likely to turn off young straight men.


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## Reno (Nov 20, 2015)

The show doesn't make a big deal of the fact that she is gay and it doesn't use her for fanboy titillation like Game of Thrones would. It's not some sort of dirty secret which gets revealed, she just happens to be gay. Carrie-Anne Moss at nearly 50 is a middle aged actress now and hardly what appeals to teenage boys. Also, why should the gay woman be the plain one in the type of TV show which is full of attractive people ?

You are making assumptions which are only from a male heterosexual POV and don't ask yourself, how would a gay spectator feel about seeing themselves represented ? How would someone (gay or straight) watching this in the Bible Belt feel about a gay character who is not defined by her sexuality ? For young gay viewers it would be a rare case of seeing someone like them, for someone straight who grows up in Bigot Central it might open their eyes just a little to see a normalised gay character.

Always ask yourself "how would this sound if I said this about a non-Caucasian character" when it comes to sexual minority characters. They've changed the race from Caucasian to African American for comic book characters in films and TV series. The only ones who complained were racist.


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## The Octagon (Nov 20, 2015)

Just watched episode one, not a slow start 

Enjoyed that, the intro was good and the noir / detective feel was different, not shying away from the sex aspect either.

That ending though....

*resists mainlining all episodes at once*


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## 8den (Nov 20, 2015)

Reno said:


> The show doesn't make a big deal of the fact that she is gay and it doesn't use her for fanboy titillation like Game of Thrones would. It's not some sort of dirty secret which gets revealed, she just happens to be gay. Carrie-Anne Moss at nearly 50 is a middle aged actress now and hardly what appeals to teenage boys. Also, why should the gay woman be the plain one in the type of TV show which is full of attractive people ?
> 
> You are making assumptions which are only from a male heterosexual POV and don't ask yourself, how would a gay spectator feel about seeing themselves represented ? How would someone (gay or straight) watching this in the Bible Belt feel about a gay character who is not defined by her sexuality ? For young gay viewers it would be a rare case of seeing someone like them, for someone straight who grows up in Bigot Central it might open their eyes just e little to see a normalised gay character.
> 
> Always ask yourself "how would this sound if I said this about a non-Caucasian character" when it comes to sexual minority characters. They've changed the race from Caucasian to African American for comic book characters in films and TV series. The only ones who complained were racist.



Okay. As I said thats just how it felt to me, I'm happy to watch the series and be proven wrong.


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## Bob_the_lost (Nov 20, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> *resists mainlining all episodes at once*


Pussy.


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## The Octagon (Nov 20, 2015)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Pussy.



I'm meant to be packing to move house (for the second time in 6 months ), Jessica will understand.






Oh go on then, just _one_ more.


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## Bob_the_lost (Nov 20, 2015)

There is plenty of sex that somehow manages to be graphic without showing a single non-male nipple. Lots of grunting/time spent writhing under sheets.


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## The Octagon (Nov 20, 2015)

Spoiler: Episode 2



Some dark shit with the kids at the end there, I think Tennant is going to own this role and we've only seen glimpses of him so far 

Good fight scene with Luke Cage dismissively knocking guys across the bar with a slap and Jessica looking irritated as she flings them around 

Supporting cast getting some fleshing out too


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## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2015)

tenant carries some real menace in this.


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 23, 2015)

First 4 episodes....boring as fuck, overly drawn out. Plus it has the worst sex scenes.

I'll keep watching because the small glimpses of Tennant have been good.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

after Sense8's full on orgies and strap ons the sex scenes are a little tamer seeming but then this is a Marvel product. By hook or by crook under 16's WILL get around to watching it if they are nerdy. Marvel must know that and not fancy the blowback from having a mother catch her 12 year old watching JJ during some graphic sex scene and then going full angry about it to the press. Bad fer business perhaps?


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 23, 2015)

It's not that they're not graphic, it's just not sexy or sensual at all. Unless they're meant to be having a hate-fuck???


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## 8den (Nov 23, 2015)

They are very mechanical. 

I'll take back what I said about the lesbian sub plot that's the best subtle characterisation of the series. 

I managed to skip an episode by mistake last night and only realised it at the end. Not a good sign.


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## baldrick (Nov 23, 2015)

Have seen the whole season one now. Mostly enjoyed it but am really fucking bored with with the abused/raped by a man backstory now with female characters. I don't know why it's necessary and it coloured my perception of it a bit.

Carrie Anne Moss was excellent. Way more menacing than David Tennant!



Spoiler



Also excellent crossover with that other dark superhero series


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 23, 2015)

Might want to spoiler that last bit!


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 23, 2015)

Is there some legal reason they can't say Hulk or Captain America? Referring to Hulk as the big green guy is one thing, but referring to Cap as "the flag waver" was cringey.


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## The Octagon (Nov 23, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Is there some legal reason they can't say Hulk or Captain America? Referring to Hulk as the big green guy is one thing, but referring to Cap as "the flag waver" was cringey.



Makes sense to me, I can't imagine someone like Jessica Jones saying "Captain America" without vomiting last night's whiskey back up 

We call celebrities all sorts of nicknames / colloquialisms (Pig-fucker anyone?), didn't bother me tbh.

Plus there have been several wider implications alluded to in the episodes I've seen so far, including the anger of regular New Yorkers at the effects of the 'Incident / Battle of New York', that's far more important than whether they say the proper names.


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## The Octagon (Nov 23, 2015)

Up to Episode 7 now, really enjoying it, none of the characters seem cliche and the plot has twisted in several directions I wasn't expecting.

Looking forward to the latter part of the season (although it looks like people are going to start spoiling stuff now so might have to leave the thread until I'm done) *Spoiler tags FFS*!


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## 8den (Nov 23, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Is there some legal reason they can't say Hulk or Captain America? Referring to Hulk as the big green guy is one thing, but referring to Cap as "the flag waver" was cringey.



No they're both marvel studios (it'd be different if it was the x men or fantastic 4 who are owned by fox & Sony)


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## baldrick (Nov 23, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Might want to spoiler that last bit!


I have done now but I wasn't expecting that to be a surprise to anyone. Sorry 



Spoiler



I was hoping for a Murdock vs Hogarth lawyer scene


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## 8den (Nov 23, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> Up to Episode 7 now, really enjoying it, none of the characters seem cliche and the plot has twisted in several directions I wasn't expecting.
> 
> Looking forward to the latter part of the season (although it looks like people are going to start spoiling stuff now so might have to leave the thread until I'm done) *Spoiler tags FFS*!



It's not a massive spoiler because 



Spoiler



next two stand alones are Luke Cage & Iron Fist, with the 5th series being "the defenders" where in all four team up. 

oh I liked the "sweet Christmas!" Post coital joke!


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## SpookyFrank (Nov 23, 2015)

Up to episode ten and lots of the subtler bits from the first half of the series are paying off now.


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## The Octagon (Nov 24, 2015)

Just watched 8 and 9.

Tennant is absolutely nailing this, it's a brilliant performance. 



Spoiler: Episode 9 quote



Jessica to Kilgrave "You're not *10* anymore" 

Dr Who fans - "No shit"


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2015)

That's actually not too bad. Now I have two series to watch.


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## The Octagon (Nov 24, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> *That's actually not too bad*. Now I have two series to watch.



*Checks username*

*double-take*

What have you done with AS? If you're being Kilgraved post a solitary full stop.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> *Checks username*
> 
> *double-take*
> 
> What have you done with AS? If you're being Kilgraved post a solitary full stop.


I genuinely expected to really hate it, maybe that lowered my expectations.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Nov 24, 2015)

Watched the first episode of this and thought it was very much a jumble of actions dramas/storylines that I just couldn't invest in as the character was underdeveloped. I'll probably watch a couple more before writing it off but please tell me it gets better?


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## The Octagon (Nov 24, 2015)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Watched the first episode of this and thought it was very much a jumble of actions dramas/storylines that I just couldn't invest in as the character was underdeveloped. I'll probably watch a couple more before writing it off but please tell me it gets better?



It gets better, but it's not really an action show, more a character study and focused on moral quandaries / effects of abuse.

There is still plenty of good looking people hitting things though, so I like the balance.


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## 8den (Nov 24, 2015)

I've thought the action scenes and fight choreography where a little dull (particularly establishing how strong/tough) Luke and Jessica are. One episode she can lift up a rear wheel sports car a while later she's having trouble beating up some guys. 

I'm enjoying it but I thought Daredevil was better


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## The Octagon (Nov 24, 2015)

8den said:


> I've thought the action scenes and fight choreography where a little dull (particularly establishing how strong/tough) Luke and Jessica are. One episode she can lift up a rear wheel sports car a while later she's having trouble beating up some guys.
> 
> I'm enjoying it but I thought Daredevil was better



Agreed, I would say the actual choreography and depictions of superpowers have been very low budget compared to what I was expecting (Jessica's jumping / flying is pretty awful).

On the other hand it makes a little sense in that none of these characters (JJ / Luke / Kilgrave) are trained martial artists like Daredevil, they're either brawlers or sneak attackers.


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## 8den (Nov 24, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> Agreed, I would say the actual choreography and depictions of superpowers have been very low budget compared to what I was expecting (Jessica's jumping / flying is pretty awful).
> 
> On the other hand it makes a little sense in that none of these characters (JJ / Luke / Kilgrave) are trained martial artists like Daredevil, they're either brawlers or sneak attackers.



I know. And I understand it's s conscious decision not to see her jump/ etc. It just tends to make the show look very cheap.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Nov 24, 2015)

Heh, my critique of the action was actually a typo but yeah, there was very little action/super power stuff in the one I saw. I wondered if they were being purposefully ambiguous or something...


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2015)

DaredevippopDaredevippopruyqoiuqrepiyeuurz aredevippopDaredevippopruyqoiuqrepiyeuur cases j
break
JxBC?!?!
Hjphxk?zb?ffiyq b


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## The Octagon (Nov 24, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> DaredevippopDaredevippopruyqoiuqrepiyeuurz aredevippopDaredevippopruyqoiuqrepiyeuur cases j
> break
> JxBC?!?!
> Hjphxk?zb?ffiyq b



Either Kilgrave or someone's kid logged on


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 25, 2015)

Something werid happened, that's supposed to say daredevil is shit.


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## SpookyFrank (Nov 25, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Something werid happened, that's supposed to say daredevil is shit.



It seems your computer refused to allow you to post such an outrageous lie.


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## The Octagon (Nov 25, 2015)

Episode 12 was a corker



Spoiler: Ep 12



The fight choreography suddenly got a lot better for that Cage / Jones smackdown, good to see Jessica out-thinking Luke in terms of using her powers / surroundings.

That ending tho, meaty stuff (yes I know he'll be fine, but still well done emotionally)

Bit of a Breaking Bad nod too perhaps? "Do what you gotta do"

Some decent drama stuff with the supporting cast too, it's quite well rounded


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## SpookyFrank (Nov 25, 2015)

Finished it now. Thought the ending was very good. One or two excellent episodes aside, the whole thing gets about a 7/10 from me. Probably would have been 8/10 had they not set the bar so high with Daredevil.


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 26, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Finished it now. Thought the ending was very good. One or two excellent episodes aside, the whole thing gets about a 7/10 from me. Probably would have been 8/10 had they not set the bar so high with Daredevil.



Spot on.

Tennant was brilliant and just got better.


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## High Voltage (Nov 27, 2015)

Episode 6 around the 14 minute mark:-



Spoiler: I WOULD CHEERFULLY KILL TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS



Everybody BE QUIET - and they all STFU


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## SpookyFrank (Nov 27, 2015)

High Voltage said:


> Episode 6 around the 14 minute mark:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would certainly come in handy on a train carriage full of students.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 27, 2015)

overall I enjoyed the series. Bit slow sometimes but picked up towards the end. 

so far, Marvel TV has wee'd on DC TV. The Arrow is shite, they fucked constantine, Gotham is waste. I dread to think what they'll do to Preacher.They're making Lucifer as fucking cop show.

Another two Marvel netflix shows to come, so far I declare victory


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## 8den (Nov 27, 2015)

3. After Luke cage and iron fist we get the defenders. Don't forget shield and agent Carter. Though u thought shield was boring.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 27, 2015)

Shield grew tedious. Some point after Evil Ward became Evil Ward. I think I stopped watching around the Inhumans stufff time. Ancient temple/city or some shit


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## The Octagon (Nov 27, 2015)

Flash is good in a more light, fun way (with a bit of an edge) , Gotham has become very good in the latest series, but likewise. I think DC is suffering by keeping the TV and Film universes separate. 

SHIELD is a superb show now but took ages getting there. Agent Carter and the Marvel Netflix stuff is excellent and benefits from being tighter plotted and more bingeable.

Supergirl I barely lasted the first episode and haven't felt the desire to go back.


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## 8den (Nov 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Shield grew tedious. Some point after Evil Ward became Evil Ward. I think I stopped watching around the Inhumans stufff time. Ancient temple/city or some shit



Apparently it got v good later on but I couldn't be arsed. Same with Arrow and Flash. Both get good reviews but just don't appeal. I was a comic but as a teenager and my twenties and I'm sick of the deluge of comic to properties. There should be a 10 break between reboots


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## moonsi til (Nov 29, 2015)

Just finished watching. I really enjoyed it.


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## 8den (Nov 30, 2015)

Hmm 



Spoiler



the sub plot with the fantastically obnoxious neighbour, (the girl) was really tedious and pointless


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## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Something werid happened, that's supposed to say daredevil is shit.


Yup. Boring fighting scenes. And not much else. 
Superhero films and TV series are invariably shite unless you're 10 or your brain hasn't fully developed.


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## 8den (Nov 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Yup. Boring fighting scenes. And not much else.
> Superhero films and TV series are invariably shite unless you're 10 or your brain hasn't fully developed.




Rubbish plenty of great superhero shows. Buffy?


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## krtek a houby (Nov 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Yup. Boring fighting scenes. And not much else.
> Superhero films and TV series are invariably shite unless you're 10 or your brain hasn't fully developed.



Chronicle is a great superhero film. As is Kick Ass, Batman, Batman Returns, the Nolan trilogy and the first 2 Christopher Reeve Superman efforts.

Watchmen was a pretty good adaptation for a Moore comic, also.


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## The Octagon (Nov 30, 2015)

Boring fight scenes? The hallway fight from ep 2 is one of the best choreographed and shot scenes TV has done, easily equal to film (especially as it's paying homage to Oldboy)


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## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2015)

8den said:


> Rubbish plenty of great superhero shows. Buffy?


Shite


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## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Chronicle is a great superhero film. As is Kick Ass, Batman, Batman Returns, the Nolan trilogy and the first 2 Christopher Reeve Superman efforts.
> 
> Watchmen was a pretty good adaptation for a Moore comic, also.


Only agree about the Superman films


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## The Octagon (Nov 30, 2015)

Ooh, you're so controversial


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## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> Ooh, you're so controversial


Hardly


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## 8den (Nov 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Shite



Okay so your opinion can be safely ignored.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2015)

8den said:


> Okay so your opinion can be safely ignored.


It's a valid one. Not sure it counts as superhero fare anyway


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## 8den (Nov 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> It's a valid one. Not sure it counts as superhero fare anyway



Why not?


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## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2015)

8den said:


> Why not?


Cos it's not about superheroes.


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## 8den (Nov 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Cos it's not about superheroes.


She is a chosen one with special abilities gifted to her to fight the forces of evil and darkness. 

How is Jessica Jones a superhero show and Buffy isn't?


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## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2015)

I thought superheroes had secret identities and fought crime.


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## iona (Nov 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I thought superheroes had secret identities and fought crime.



How is being the Slayer not a secret identity?

And how is Buffy stopping a supernatural big bad from opening the Hellmouth or whatever they want to do any different from other superheroes stopping a villain (some of whom also have superpowers of some kind) from taking over the world or whatever?


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## SpookyFrank (Nov 30, 2015)

8den said:


> Hmm
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



It did kinda pay off but only really as an excuse to let matey boy escape _again _and so help stretch a story that could maybe have been done in ten episodes out over thirteen. Carrie Ann Moss' subplot did turn out to have a bit more of a point to it though, and Moss herself was great throughout I thought.


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## Saffy (Nov 30, 2015)

I'm loving this series, only up to episode 5 but stayed awake till 2am last night watching it. 
Properly annoyed my other half has to be up at 5 tomorrow and needs to go to bed.


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## 8den (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It did kinda pay off but only really as an excuse to let matey boy escape _again _and so help stretch a story that could maybe have been done in ten episodes out over thirteen. Carrie Ann Moss' subplot did turn out to have a bit more of a point to it though, and Moss herself was great throughout I thought.



Agreed and I retract my previous post.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2015)

iona said:


> How is being the Slayer not a secret identity?
> 
> And how is Buffy stopping a supernatural big bad from opening the Hellmouth or whatever they want to do any different from other superheroes stopping a villain (some of whom also have superpowers of some kind) from taking over the world or whatever?


She doesn't have an outfit and she doesn't go out on the streets vigilante style.


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## 8den (Nov 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> She doesn't have an outfit and she doesn't go out on the streets vigilante style.



Neither do lots of superheroes, See Jessica Jones.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2015)

Can't be arsed. See earlier posts.


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## girasol (Dec 8, 2015)

Watched last episode last night, and although the acting was good, the writing was poor.

And also, burning question from last episode:



Spoiler



How the fuck did the nurse move Luke from the wheelchair, into her car, then from her car back in the wheel chair??? AND THEN SHE PUT HIM ON THE BED!  He's immense, and she has no super powers.



I remember thinking similarly about a number of other plot holes, but it seems I have forgotten them now.  So, Jessica Jones, not memorable, not excellent, but passable.

And yeah, 10 episodes, or maybe even less, would have worked better.


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## girasol (Dec 8, 2015)

I agree with Orang Utan, most superhero stuff really doesn't work for me anymore either.  Except for Buffy, which is one of the best things ever ever done, ever!  Top FIVE in my list  (Top five TV shows list that is, along with The Wire, The Sopranos, It's Always Sunny..., Californication, erm, I think, Breaking Bad is out on account of transforming itself into something else from S4).

Oh, Battlestar Galactica also close runner up to top 5.


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## 8den (Dec 8, 2015)

I think Jones was miss cast. 

I think Kilgood storyline was too present from the get go I'd have preferred it to have run in the background while Jessica solved other cases. The subplots re the neighbour and support group was over long and I didn't like how Jessica and Luke's story were tied in before they met. 

Carrie Ann Moss was the best thing in it, and I think her being gay was in fact excellent, I called that one very wrong. 

Not a patch on daredevil


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## DotCommunist (Dec 8, 2015)

girasol said:


> superhero stuff really doesn't work for me anymore either.


really depends on the superhero for me. I'll always give a superman film a fair shake but stuff like Captain Nationalism and Ant Man (why? ant man? why? I just don't...) leaves me cold. Still, the spandex schedule of films is plotted for a few years ahead now so no sign of the crap heroes going away soon


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## Reno (Dec 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> really depends on the superhero for me. I'll always give a superman film a fair shake but stuff like Captain Nationalism and Ant Man (why? ant man? why? I just don't...) leaves me cold. Still, the spandex schedule of films is plotted for a few years ahead now so no sign of the crap heroes going away soon


I think the Captain America films are among the better superhero films. They put the character into a historical context where his name makes sense, as a weapon and a propaganda effort of WWII. Once he comes out of WWII he isn't any more nationalistic than other superheroes. In terms of personality he is a less super Superman (no more or less nationalistic). I quite like how he becomes a lesser superhero, because compared to other superheroes he's quite outdated as is his patriotic name. The films deal with that instead of being uncritically nationalistic.

Superheroes shouldn't appeal to me, I never read superhero comics as a kid and I find the concept of a super-powered hero boring, but anything can be done well if you throw talent at it and they do that with the Marvel film. They get talented film makers to make them.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 8, 2015)

Reno said:


> In terms of personality he is a less super Superman (no more or less nationalistic) and I quite like how he becomes a lesser superhero, because compared to other superheroes he's quite outdated.



where this works for me is in the avengers movies where his old school patriot is contrasted with starks modern ruthless american capitalist.


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## Reno (Dec 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> where this works for me is in the avengers movies where his old school patriot is contrasted with starks modern ruthless american capitalist.


As films I find the two Captain America films more satisfying than the Avengers films, though I think they are all fine. The first one is a rip-roaring Indiana Jones style WWII adventure and the second one is a superhero take on the 70s conspiracy thriller, the least patriotic of genres.


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## 8den (Dec 8, 2015)

Both Captain America films are the best of the current crop of marvel super hero movies. Just from a story telling and action point of view. 

And the point of the winter soldier is this all American icon out of time coming to terms with realpolitik. It's no 3 days of the Condor but it's a really well done action movie.  Well worth a watch. 


Oh Dotc have you heard of into the badlands?


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## emanymton (Dec 8, 2015)

8den said:


> I think Jones was miss cast.
> 
> I think Kilgood storyline was too present from the get go I'd have preferred it to have run in the background while Jessica solved other cases. The subplots re the neighbour and support group was over long and I didn't like how Jessica and Luke's story were tied in before they met.
> 
> ...


This, or the whole thing should have been shorter. The main plot just felt too drawn out to me.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 8, 2015)

8den said:


> Oh Dotc have you heard of into the badlands?



yersh. I am enjoying it quite a lot. Not just for the gorgeous choregraphy combat but the scenery and the villainous southern drawl on the evil baron. Here is a thread which I did start on the matter. Its on amazon prime so it probs won't get watched much here
Into The Badlands


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## 8den (Dec 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> yersh. I am enjoying it quite a lot. Not just for the gorgeous choregraphy combat but the scenery and the villainous southern drawl on the evil baron. Here is a thread which I did start on the matter. Its on amazon prime so it probs won't get watched much here
> Into The Badlands



I should have checked. But I figured a post apocalyptic steam punk Kung fu tv show was in your wheel house. The Barons old wife is in fact Irish she's doing a very good accent


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## 8den (Dec 8, 2015)

Also we don't have prime in Ireland so I torrent it guilt free


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## Mrs Miggins (Dec 9, 2015)

Oh wow I started this last night and watched til 2am. I really didn't think it would be my cup of tea but I love!


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## Idaho (Dec 20, 2015)

Watched the first couple of episodes of this last night and was pleasantly surprised. Pretty good. I used to collect powerman and iron fist, so was happy to see luke cage.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 20, 2015)

Started this last night. Seems quite good, even though I've never read a comic in my life and had no idea who the character was.


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 20, 2015)

I absolutely fucking loved this programme.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I absolutely fucking loved this programme.


I knew you'd vibe on it


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## fractionMan (Dec 20, 2015)

Up to episode 8 now and its really annoying me 



Spoiler: Because...



she should kill the fucker ffs.  Whats the plan otherwise, get him arrested and convicted?  Yeah like that's gonna happen


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 20, 2015)

fractionMan said:


> Up to episode 8 now and its really annoying me
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well



Spoiler



the whole point was that she wanted to exonerate his victim who's in prison for shooting her parents. Can't do that if he's dead.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 24, 2015)

Question from a non comic/marvel following viewer:



Spoiler



In episode 4 a woman and her husband try to kill Jessica because the woman's parents died in "the incident", she talks about pulling them out the rubble. What's that all about?


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## The Octagon (Dec 24, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Question from a non comic/marvel following viewer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



The battle of New York in the 1st Avengers film.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 24, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The battle of New York in the 1st Avengers film.


Any more info than that? I've not seen it


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 24, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Any more info than that? I've not seen it





Spoiler



Naughty boy from Asgard decides to have a tantrum and allies with some weird even naughtier dude and invades New York, and the Avengers (Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Black Widow, Thor, Hawkeye) plus various SHIELD types help bring him/them down, flattening most of New York in the process.

This woman is just talking about one of the many, many collateral damage taken during the fight - which was a nice touch imo.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 24, 2015)

Ah, so people are aware there are those with superpowers in this world? I thought it was all a big secret


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## DotCommunist (Dec 24, 2015)

shit sort of came out when a team of them wrecked new york defending it from inter-plane enemy aliens called the chitauri


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## Saffy (Dec 24, 2015)

Finished it last night and loved it. 
David tenant is just such a fab actor, may have to watch it all again.


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 24, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Ah, so people are aware there are those with superpowers in this world? I thought it was all a big secret



So, for example, the nurse who treats Luke, she knows first hand about them because she's also in Daredevil, she's the person who patches Daredevil up all the time when he gets hurt... lots of people know about their existence, and what I like about it is that many are suspicious of them, since they always seem to be involved when shit goes down. They're not the universally loved Superman of old (although even then he was treated with suspicion on occasion), they're trouble makers to a lot of people, when ordinary folk are just trying to go about their business. I suppose there's always been that tension - if only the stupid plebs would understand what the good guys are trying to do - but it feels nicely realistic in this universe. I suppose not everyone knows, or chooses to ignore it, but in general there's no big secret about the fact that these 'special' people exist.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 24, 2015)

I stopped watching it. Can't remember where I was. I guess I must have lost interest. I can't watch anything anymore. This new way of watching any telly you want at any time has oddly ruined it for me.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 24, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I stopped watching it. Can't remember where I was. I guess I must have lost interest. I can't watch anything anymore. This new way of watching any telly you want at any time has oddly ruined it for me.


I'm the very opposite. Who the fuck wants to be told when to watch things?


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 24, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm the very opposite. Who the fuck wants to be told when to watch things?



I see the benefit of both approaches. For example, there's something compelling about being served only 2 episodes of The Bridge each week, making that cliffhanger all the sweeter as you raise your fist to the sky. But sometimes you just want to sit down in your undercrackers and binge an entire season of something.


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## fractionMan (Dec 24, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im just glad she saw sense after that very episode. Was gonna chuck in the towel but glad I stuck with it


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## Reno (Dec 24, 2015)

In enjoy serialised shows, but my memory is shot and I can only binge them as I can't remember what happened last week. I don't watch any drama series week by week anymore, even when they are on the telly . I record them all and then watch them over a few evenings.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 24, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm the very opposite. Who the fuck wants to be told when to watch things?


Not me, but without a scheduled time there is always something else for me to do. I can put off a tv show and watch it anytime in the future. . . . but tomorrow never comes.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

Didn't expect to enjoy this, but loving it, despite the superpower silliness and the awful music.
Love the characters in this and like how they are teasing out the big backplot with major plotlines that are barely referred to when surely that's all anyone would be talking about. Finding it a great distraction. Watched it and Parks & Rec S06 all night last night, despite having to go work today.


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## Saffy (Jan 5, 2016)

I finished this just before Christmas and been really missing it, started to watch Daredevil but it's just not cutting it for me.


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## souljacker (Jan 5, 2016)

I'm on ep9 and its getting bloody exciting. Tennant is superb in it.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

i've only seen tennant in broadchurch but he's well hammy in this, as i imagine he is in dr who. he doesn't show his face straight away, so his voice bugged me until i realised he is in Tree Fu Tom. He must be in something else too


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 6, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> i've only seen tennant in broadchurch but he's well hammy in this, as i imagine he is in dr who. he doesn't show his face straight away, so his voice bugged me until i realised he is in Tree Fu Tom. He must be in something else too



Nativity 2: Danger in the Manger


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## wtfftw (Jan 9, 2016)

I've massively enjoyed that this is predominantly women. 
And the men who've been in it have mainly had to take a love/sex role - albeit developed ones.


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## Vintage Paw (Jan 10, 2016)

I mean, look at how the camera asks us to drool the fuck over Luke


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 10, 2016)

wtfftw said:


> I've massively enjoyed that this is predominantly women.
> And the men who've been in it have mainly had to take a love/sex role - albeit developed ones.


But it snot fair, it's objectifying men, worra bout men's rights, Waaah! Waaah! Waaah! etc, goes the refrain around the MRAosphere, I imagine


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## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2016)

Nearly finished this. It's ace.
And Robyn is played by Rebelda:


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## Rebelda (Jan 13, 2016)

Oi  fuckoff 

eta: I agree with wtfftw 

I also liked, in a non-voyeuristic way (but also in voyeuristic way ), how real the sex scenes were.


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## Cloo (Feb 26, 2016)

Just finished watching the series - excellent stuff. So good to see a female-led series like this, with women who aren't just bitches or perfect Mary Janes and the relationships between women being important.

Also like the way Kilgrave was the ultimate entitled male - totally unable to understand why Jessica wasn't on some level grateful to have been physically and mentally raped because he bought her nice things. And a look into just how horrendous the implications are of a power like Kilgrave's and how badly it would inevitably fuck you up.


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 27, 2016)

It's a show of its time. It's almost blow-by-blow a vicious take down of all the misogynist types battling women on the internet these days.


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## Johnny Vodka (Feb 27, 2016)

So is this going to come out on blu-ray?


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## Reno (Feb 27, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> So is this going to come out on blu-ray?


There is a good chance it will, but often they release the previous season of a series when the new season comes out. More people will buy it to catch up.


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## Johnny Vodka (Feb 27, 2016)

Reno said:


> There is a good chance it will, but often they release the previous season of a series when the new season comes out. More people will buy it to catch up.



I guess there's time yet.  For some reason I thought it had been around longer.  I don't use streaming services and only really catch up with telly/films on freeview or when the blu goes cheap.


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## gsv (Feb 27, 2016)

Very impressed with some of the core supporting cast. Especially Colby Minifie and Eka Darville.







GS(v)


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 30, 2016)

I watched first ep of this a while ago, but I wasn't feeling it. Just given it another go and really enjoying it.


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## tommers (Mar 30, 2016)

I thought it started well and got a bit worse by the end. Felt a bit gratuitous. 



Spoiler



Finding his parents based on the phrase "Eric never complained when he went in the sin bin"  was just stupid.



But there were some nice themes going on and Killgrave was a great scary character.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 31, 2016)

tommers said:


> I thought it started well and got a bit worse by the end. Felt a bit gratuitous.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I liked that killgrave knew/didn't know he was bad iyswim? he existed as evil and that but didn't see what he was except when jessica showed him his true nature


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## The Octagon (Mar 31, 2016)

"I’ve always been bad at small talk. I’m used to just saying things and they happen. It spoils you"

The idea of what most people would be like if everyone always obeyed them, most of us would have either gone into isolation or become amoral arseholes I suspect.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 31, 2016)

^ It can be read as a direct critique of the rise of male entitlement in geek culture and elsewhere. It was definitely on the minds of the creators of the show. The whole thing drips with references to it.

By male entitlement I mean the whole rise in sexism, MRAs, 'lads', banter, etc.


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## The Octagon (Mar 31, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> ^ It can be read as a direct critique of the rise of male entitlement in geek culture and elsewhere. It was definitely on the minds of the creators of the show. The whole thing drips with references to it.
> 
> 
> 
> By male entitlement I mean the whole rise in sexism, MRAs, 'lads', banter, etc.



The Red Pill *shudder*

Absolutely, although in fairness it can be read loads of ways, which is why I've really enjoyed rewatching it just before DD S2, looking forward to the team dynamic in The Defenders


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 31, 2016)

Well yeah, everything can be read in loads of ways 

JJ will stand out for me, though, as the cultural hit that first tackled the MRA bullshit head on.


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## Nanker Phelge (Apr 2, 2016)

Just finished. I think it was 4 episodes too long. The end was a bit weak, but the characters are strong and there is plenty to entertain.

Kilgrave was annoying by ep 8. Just a pathetic whining prat.


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## Bonfirelight (Apr 14, 2016)

just finished. 
pretty good.


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 28, 2016)

Luke Cage gets his own series on Netflix this Friday


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## The Octagon (Sep 29, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Luke Cage gets his own series on Netflix this Friday



Looks very good from the early promos and reviews, deserves it's own thread I think


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## Sue (Mar 17, 2018)

Cloo said:


> Just finished watching the series - excellent stuff. So good to see a female-led series like this, with women who aren't just bitches or perfect Mary Janes and the relationships between women being important.
> 
> Also like the way Kilgrave was the ultimate entitled male - totally unable to understand why Jessica wasn't on some level grateful to have been physically and mentally raped because he bought her nice things. And a look into just how horrendous the implications are of a power like Kilgrave's and how badly it would inevitably fuck you up.


I've just watched season one and agree with everything Cloo says.

So refreshing to see something with strong female characters and found its take on abusive/controlling relationships really well done and thought provoking. 

And I say this as someone who deliberately avoids all the Marvel stuff.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 18, 2018)

Only watched the first ep of S2 so far and it didn't grab me like the first season, and for some reason I'm not entirely convinced by the whole origin story direction it seems to be going in. I sort of don't care about that. Only one episode so far though, so I'm sure it could turn itself around.

Also, had a dream last night that Jessica drank the essence of Killgrave. idek


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 18, 2018)

Just finished binging series 2. Stay with it, VP. It also didn't grab me at first, and it took a while for me to be convinced by the new baddie. Killgrave is a hard act to follow! And I miss Luke Cage, for whom I had something of a man-crush. But it develops very nicely. 

Just a bit pissed off that I've finished it now.   The mixed feelings of the binge-watcher.


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## cybershot (Mar 19, 2018)

Not read the rest of the thread, as I'm thinking of starting this, but wanted to ask if it's the kind of series where I need to also watch series X because there is tie in's with it, or if people guest star from another series and what not, or is it completely watchable as a stand alone program?


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## Idaho (Mar 19, 2018)

It's pretty much stand alone. There are overlaps, but they are details rather than structure.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 19, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Not read the rest of the thread, as I'm thinking of starting this, but wanted to ask if it's the kind of series where I need to also watch series X because there is tie in's with it, or if people guest star from another series and what not, or is it completely watchable as a stand alone program?



What Idaho said. But it will probably make you want to watch Luke Cage afterwards (which is well worth it).


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## kabbes (Mar 19, 2018)

I think the Netflix Marvel series are all worth it, for me.  But Jessica Jones was the best of them, so if you're only going to watch one, I think make it that one.

The first Daredevil series was almost as good for me, mind, as Jessica Jones was.  The whiny pissant Iron Fist was the worst of them, although still quite good fun for its kung fu.

When Netflix started doing their Marvel adaptations, they seemed new and fresh.  After _n_ series of them, though, it's feeling rather less so.  Then The Tick came along and was 100 times as much fun, showing that life, er, _finds a way_.


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## Idaho (Mar 19, 2018)

Iron fist was pretty poor and disappointing. Defenders too. JJ and luke cage were the best by a country mile.


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## krtek a houby (Mar 19, 2018)

The Punisher was pretty intense.


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## Sue (Mar 19, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Not read the rest of the thread, as I'm thinking of starting this, but wanted to ask if it's the kind of series where I need to also watch series X because there is tie in's with it, or if people guest star from another series and what not, or is it completely watchable as a stand alone program?


I haven't seen any of the others (and generally avoid Marvel things) and I followed it just fine (and thought it was really good).


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## Idaho (Mar 19, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> The Punisher was pretty intense.


I liked it except for the violence.


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## krtek a houby (Mar 20, 2018)

Idaho said:


> I liked it except for the violence.



Yeah, it was pretty full on!


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## Mation (Mar 27, 2018)

Utterly crushed by season 2, having loved the first season. All the gains made were lost, and then some. Totally back to how black people are usually treated in mainstream, especially US, TV. Racist pile of wank.


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## Idris2002 (Jun 17, 2019)

Watched the first episode just now.

Very good, and I think I'll stay with it, but it's basically the same character Kristen Ritter played in Don't Trust the Bitch in Apartment 23.


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## DexterTCN (Jun 17, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> Watched the first episode just now.
> 
> Very good, and I think I'll stay with it, but it's basically the same character Kristen Ritter played in Don't Trust the Bitch in Apartment 23.


Just finished it tonight, really enjoyed it.


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## mwgdrwg (Jun 18, 2019)

What's it like compared to the excellent 1st season, and the utter shit 2nd season?

Not sure If I'll bother yet.


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## DexterTCN (Jun 18, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> What's it like compared to the excellent 1st season, and the utter shit 2nd season?
> 
> Not sure If I'll bother yet.


First season will always be the best.  This one really delves into morality, choices, consequences.  Almost every character involved has an arc of development, it seems.  And there are a couple of terrific episodes.

It's a good finish to the netflix mcu.


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