# Saturation Zones in Cardiff.



## JamesWales (Oct 28, 2011)

For those that don't know, Cardiff Council designated St Mary Street and City Road as saturation zones several years ago, based on the police link between licensed premises and crime. I think most people feel there was some credit in the proposals in preventing the whole street being bars and clubs, but it's ended up preventing new places opening in established clubs, leading to empty properties. City Road in my opinion is an utter state, and a shambles and the saturation zone is holding that street back.​​​Anyway, the council are now considering whether to make Churchill Way and Greyfriars Road saturation zones. I have some sympathy for Greyfriars road, but this would effectively close off half of the city centre to new licensed premises, including live music bars, independent venues etc.​​​I think this is governance of the worse sort-dictatorial, controlling, interfering, anti-business, and presuming guilt before innocence. It's awful, and I think it will hold the city back.​​​It seems the council are debating it next week. Regarding Churchill Way, you can see on the following link (from page 16) a grand total of 9 (NINE!) letters of support for the saturation zone, and most of these refer to Lib Dem leaflets, so presumably hundreds upon hundreds of people didn't write in in support.​​​So the council is proposing to effectively close off a street to new premises based on 9 letters, and some spurious crime data that shows less than one incident a week.​​​If this doesn't scare you about the council then nothing will!​​​I don't think it's too late to try and influence this decision, something which if approved has severe consequences for the city's culture, not to mention being of very dubious validity.​​​Details Here: (under licencing committee agenda)​http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/content.asp?nav=2872,3250,3251,4892&parent_directory_id=2865&id=1509​councillors (that in my opinion need educating that bars have a right to operate!)​http://www.cardiff.gov.uk/content.asp?nav=2872,3250,3251,4892&parent_directory_id=2865&id=1422​


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## ddraig (Oct 28, 2011)

point of order
it is the police pushing for the saturation zones and their expansion
double edged sword indeed


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## JamesWales (Oct 28, 2011)

Indeed. They are after an easier job.

I'm not police bashing. I think they do a decent enough job, and wish them all the luck in finding and punishing violent people, but they cannot dictate to the whole city, or refuse to allow venues to open because some people might cause trouble there-It makes the whole city suffer 'cos of a few idiots.

If places cause problems they can have their licences revoked, but they deserve the chance to operate.

I really think this is something councillors need to be contacted over. As stated, just 9 complaints regarding Churchill Way means the council are considering a blanket ban on all new licences.

How crazy is that? If nine people opposed a mosque would they not allow any to open? Thin end of the wedge in my opinion, and gives the police WAAAAY to much power over how and where we enjoy ourselves.


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## ddraig (Nov 2, 2011)

2 new saturation zones approved by licensing but going to full council as far as i can make out
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/l...reated-in-cardiff-city-centre-91466-29703029/


> Police figures show violent crime has surged 387% on Greyfriars Road over the past two years – from 53 incidents in 2008/09 to 258 last year.
> The increase coincides with the introduction of the capital’s first saturation zone, on St Mary Street, which by contrast has seen the number of violent incidents drop from 883 in 2007/08 to 385 last year.
> Licensing officer Tony Bowley said the existing zones – which also include City Road and Crwys Road – had stopped “all sorts of undesirable and unnecessary” premises from opening.
> Mr Bowley said the Greyfriars Road zone was needed as premises were finding “entrepreneurial ways” to increase their capacity, while Churchill Way had a disproportionately high number of incidents.
> ...


387% !! 
and what is an undesirable premises?


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## JKaranka (Nov 2, 2011)

Churchill Way? I've not seen anything full on there, and there's only a couple of busy premises anyway (Promised Land, Central Bar, Buffalo). I've seen the odd situation there that makes me suspect there might be something quite specific going on (once we all got locked into one of the bars by the staff until some clients left).


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## ddraig (Nov 2, 2011)

JKaranka said:


> Churchill Way? I've not seen anything full on there, and there's only a couple of busy premises anyway (Promised Land, Central Bar, Buffalo). I've seen the odd situation there that makes me suspect there might be something quite specific going on (once we all got locked into one of the bars by the staff until some clients left).


churchill way is the other side! the one with the rowdy gay bars, one of which has really loud music pumping outside and ocasionaly drag artists who make a lot of noise too


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## JKaranka (Nov 2, 2011)

Ah, damn, not had any trouble there! I guess they just put saturation zones in any large strips with clubs then, which seems a bit senseless. Maybe they should try to divide the city centre into quarters: weed smoking with alternative music, lots of r&b with cheap lager, cider drinking to the wurzels, etc. At least you'd get to choose the level and type of trouble you want.


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## ddraig (Nov 2, 2011)

heh
there was apparently some discussion about 'quarters'


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## JKaranka (Nov 2, 2011)

Maybe ban music and legalize weed on a street. Would be interesting.


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## spacemonkey (Nov 2, 2011)

Not surprised about Greyfriars road, everytime I've been there the last few months I've seen a fight or some sort of incident.


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## ddraig (Nov 2, 2011)

yup
turned into what st mary st used to be
carnage (and not just the student event)
grim


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## JamesWales (Nov 3, 2011)

Well, the licensing committee approved this. Greyfriars Road has some validity to it, but to automatically oppose any new licence in Churchill Way is absurd, and a scary abuse of police power.

Even more worrying is that it was prompted by less than 10 complaints from Landmark Place (out of hundreds of residents). Ten complaints can lead to blanket bans, the presumption of guilt, the denial of a right to do business, the removal of any new bars, music venues, restaurants etc. The police and council already have the right to close trouble making venues. They don't need this.

It's very scary in my opinion.

As i understand it, full council needs to approve the recommendation, so if you feel strongly about it let your local councillor know.


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## willhumphries (Nov 24, 2011)

I am a trainee journalist at Cardiff University. I write a blog on drinking in Cardiff and am covering the saturation zones and their effects. Take a look at http://cardiffdrinks.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/cardiff-booze-saturation-zones-stop-new-nightclubs/

Do you think saturation zones are helping tackle violent crime rates in the city centre or are they stifling business?


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## ddraig (Nov 24, 2011)

croeso will

apparently violent crime has dropped off
imo the tackyness has just been moved up greyfriars rd so maybe a lid can be kept on it for a while, let's see where it goes next!


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## Zola de Cwtchi (Nov 30, 2011)

Nothing wrong with rowdy gay WoW bar im telling thee...and the drag artists are fabulous


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## willhumphries (Dec 15, 2011)

I interviewed Sergeant Scott Lloyd, the Licensing Officer for Cardiff, yesterday about the saturation zones in the city centre and about the proposals for Greyfriars Road and Churchill Way that will probably get voted through council today.

 He had some interesting stuff to say. 

 I have the audio of the interview in my new post about the saturation zones here: http://cardiffdrinks.wordpress.com/2011/12/15/d-day-for-city-centre-streets/

 I'd be interested what you thought about what he had to say.


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