# The new kindle paper white.



## Sunray (Oct 9, 2013)

My old 3Rd gen, the one with the keyboard died on me a month ago so decided to upgrade to the paper white which was despatch  today. 

I look forward to not using my ipad mini, too glowy for my eyes. 

I've heard good things, shall report when it arrives.


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## Sunray (Oct 11, 2013)

Well it arrived today in its black box with black writing on the side.

Its lighter and smaller physically than my 3rd gen meaning Its much easier to hold in one hand., the 3rd gen I had was ok but a little awkward.  The touch screen is very responsive, although its not multi touch or anything sophisticated like that, it does what it needs to do very well.  The software is a nice upgrade to the kindle it replaced although it does essentially the same things just in more direct way due to the touch screen.  I don't think it really matters to be honest, this is a book replacement, not a tablet. Amazon understand this and the software reflects that understanding.

Screen updating is a bit faster but again, as long as it is beyond some basic minimum speed, I don't think this really matters much either. The device does feel snappier in use.

The light.  This single feature, simple as it sounds is is killer feature.   Its very controllable, if you have an iPhone, you may agree It has fairly limited degrees of brightness control.  This is much more subtle in its adjustment.  25 steps from off to very bright.  Fully off it goes back to a kindle of old with the grey eink display which requires a light source. When on it glows with a gentle white that means you can banish the reading light altogether, although I don't think I would want to read in a totally dark room.  Having a reading light I found a bit problematic because no matter how you had the light there was always a bit of glare on the screen which meant you had to angle the kindle to avoid it.  This admittedly minor problem has been banished.

I don't think I've ever liked any of the fonts they ship, I read using Helvetia but there are now six to choose from, it's a shame you can't change them. The line spacing and the margins are a bit more flexible than my 3rd gen.i think once you set them you not going to ever touch them again.

If you use the kindle to listen to mp3's or to read to you, then this isn't for you as sound  has been removed, it has no speakers or headphone socket. I never used it other than to marvel at how bad the reading function was, it's no loss to me but its removal is a notable change and may put people off.

Overall, it's still the kindle everyone knows and if you already have a kindle there is no real need to add to the mountain of electronic waste and upgrade, you gain very little. If, like me yours broke or you were considering getting an ebook the addition of the light elevates it to another level and I can't really see how it can be improved in any meaningful way.

It's nearly perfect. An amazing device.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 11, 2013)

Thanks Sunray that review helps me form an opinion. Never owned a Kindle or any other ebook reader and have been thinking of buying the new Paperwhite as a birthday gift to myself. (or a 1st generation,reduced price Nexus 7)


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## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 11, 2013)

This in The Guardian today;
E-readers tried and tested: gadget size v library range.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/11/best-e-readers-test-natalie-haynes


A question for those that use the Kindle. Can i connect it to my PC and transfer Kindle content that has had DRM code removed to the device?


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## 2hats (Oct 11, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> A question for those that use the Kindle. Can i connect it to my PC and transfer Kindle content that has had DRM code removed to the device?



Connect with a USB cable and then it just appears as a mass storage USB device to which you can copy mobi, PDF and other DRM free reading materials.


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## kropotkin (Oct 11, 2013)

You can, but you don't need to. It comes with an email address so you just email files directly to it. I've never bought a book, and I've had a kindle for 3 years.


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## Sunray (Oct 11, 2013)

I started buying games and books some time ago as I like having high quality material and you need to pay.  

Take a look at the Song of Ice and fire for the 4 book series?  Its got scathing reviews because the production quality of the physical book has repeated and missing pages and falls to pieces before you finish it the binding is so poor.  The kindle version is messed up with contents and the line and fonts are all messed up.

Authors have no other way of making money unless you buy their books.  I know a few and there outlook is less than a rosy one.


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## Sunray (Oct 11, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> This in The Guardian today;
> E-readers tried and tested: gadget size v library range.
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/11/best-e-readers-test-natalie-haynes
> 
> ...



Rubbish reviews.  Includes the iPad mini? What?

The paper white can show the page number, just have to press the location in the bottom left and ta-da, shows the page number. More scary is that another press will tell you how much time there is left in this chapter and a further press will tell you how much reading there is left in the whole book.  It must work out how fast you read!

Doesn't point out that the battery is still 8 weeks even with the light on, its designed to be on all the time.


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## Bob_the_lost (Oct 11, 2013)

My old 3G Keyboard died not that long ago, I chose to replace it with a Kobo instead of the Kindle.

Both are excellent devices but I preferred the feel of the Kobo and the fact that it's more open than the Kindle.


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## Sunray (Oct 11, 2013)

I do like the Amazon customer service and eco system.  It looks like they are nearly identical and this about the difference.

If I want a book that I can't buy, I buy the paper copy give it to a charity shop and download a ripped version.  This is more hit and miss as often someone has scanned in the book and OCR'ed it.


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## Chz (Oct 11, 2013)

Having played around with most of them...

The Kindle stands out as being the most solidly built. I know they can break, but it seems difficult to imagine it. Slickest user experience, too. Downside is not being compatible with a wide array of formats. Not a problem if you can be arsed to use Calibre, but not everyone can.

For Kobo, the Aura is a huge advance over the sloppy build quality of the previous versions. It's the first time I could actually recommend the damned thing. Costs as much as a Kindle now, but it's compatible with more formats. I would still give the edge to the Kindle for the overall experience though. And the older Kobos are just so shite next to a comparable Kindle.

Sony. They're nice, but nothing special. Before Kobo upped their build quality it was really the only alternative to Amazon, but I think they've been outclassed. Like a rock, though. (in a good way)

The Nook. Opposite of Kobo. Started well and gone downhill. Not recommended any more, in my opinion.


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## Bob_the_lost (Oct 11, 2013)

Sunray said:


> I do like the Amazon customer service and eco system.  It looks like they are nearly identical and this about the difference.
> 
> If I want a book that I can't buy, I buy the paper copy give it to a charity shop and download a ripped version.  This is more hit and miss as often someone has scanned in the book and OCR'ed it.


I also wasn't a fan of Amazon's build quality, they had a brilliant returns policy (sometimes) but the Keyboard Kindles were hardly the best built devices on the market.

The Kobo has outlasted all three of my Kindles (each individual lifespan, albeit not the duration of all together yet) and is approaching the age my Sony lasted.


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## joustmaster (Oct 11, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Doesn't point out that the battery is still 8 weeks even with the light on, its designed to be on all the time.


I'd be interested to know how the battery actually lasts compared to the old one. I'd imagine the light and the touch screening would make some difference. 

Do you keep your wifi and data switched off?


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## Sunray (Oct 11, 2013)

The build quality of the 3rd gen isn't great, look at ebay and see how many broken ones there are. That said, I sleep on the right side of the bed and read with it in my right hand.  I dropped that 3rd Gen onto wood floors falling asleep just about every single time I used it.  I got it when it was released so its 3 years old.  Three years of constantly being dropped goes down as a quality device.

I didn't fully charge it last night.  I'll fully charge it tonight and post up when I next need to charge it.  I run it with the light set to 5.  Wifi is always on.  Don't hold your breath.


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## chandlerp (Oct 11, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Well it arrived today in its black box with black writing on the side.
> 
> Its lighter and smaller physically than my 3rd gen meaning Its much easier to hold in one hand., the 3rd gen I had was ok but a little awkward.  The touch screen is very responsive, *although its not multi touch* or anything sophisticated like that, it does what it needs to do very well.  The software is a nice upgrade to the kindle it replaced although it does essentially the same things just in more direct way due to the touch screen.  I don't think it really matters to be honest, this is a book replacement, not a tablet. Amazon understand this and the software reflects that understanding.
> 
> ...



Actually, it is multi-touch in that you can pinch to zoom to change the font size

Also, on mine the light is never fully off.  In a very dark room you can see the page quite clearly.  try it later in the dark.

The light is counter-intuitive in that it is supposed to be on full in bright light and turned down in low light.  Try turning it right down and reading in a dark room.  It really works very well


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## Sunray (Oct 11, 2013)

Is it? I quickly tried pinch zoom and it didn't do anything and I did holding the shift button down while typing.  Ah reading the manual its only in quite limited contexts that it does the multi touch thing.

Yeah I have it on 5, you sure yours is fully off?  Mine goes to black when fully off.


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## chandlerp (Oct 11, 2013)

yes, if you swipe all the way to bottom it does look off but in a very dark room you can see the light is actually still on.


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## chandlerp (Oct 11, 2013)

Mind you, they may well have changed that in the new paperwhite.  mine is a couple of months old.


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## Vintage Paw (Oct 11, 2013)

I have a keyboard version that I'm still really happy with, but since I tend to do most of my reading in the evening with very little light around the paperwhite would be a nice upgrade (I have a clip on light but it runs out very quickly and is a pain to position so that it lights the whole page in a way that isn't distracting, and it gets in the way and makes everything feel a bit off-balance).

That said, one of the most important things to me is the case. I know that sounds silly, but hear me out.

My case flips over vertically, instead of opening like a book. It means I can prop it up on any surface - most importantly my belly when I'm lounging - and don't need to always hold it, just to turn a page. I really, really, really have come to love this case I have for my keyboard. I spent some time searching for paperwhite cases and I couldn't find a single one like that. They are all book-style or if they do flip vertically they do so with the join/fold on the bottom, instead of the top, so it flips under rather than over. Nope.

So until such time as someone makes a really awesome case that will suit my needs I shall be sticking to my keyboard and squinting when it's dark.

Edit: it's this case ...







but in this colour/covering... 






I don't use that little stand thing they've built in, I just use the flippy front cover part as a stand once it's folded over. It's just about near perfect.


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## Sunray (Oct 11, 2013)

I don't think its enough of an upgrade to the 3 to warrant the 109 quid outlay. Functionally very similar. The light is nice but its not 109 quid worth of nice.

I only think its worthwhile if the one you have is broken or you don't have one at all.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 11, 2013)

I'm just about to go and buy the new Paperwhite (it will be my first ebook reader) but now i don't know what to do. Would like the light but maybe i should get the other one selling at £69.


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## Sunray (Oct 11, 2013)

You don't have an ebook, for me its the best there is.  I would get the paper white, you will be very happy.

The light is the reason to own one, it cuts out that glare.


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## ChrisD (Oct 11, 2013)

I assume that reading pdf s formatted to A4 is no easier on this than previous kindles? 

I have to look through long pdf s for work and find kindle screen too small for A4 stuff. 
I know you can rotate 90 degrees but then scolling through pages is less easy.... I pad is bigger and can enlarge bits easily but I prefer e ink.


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## joustmaster (Oct 11, 2013)

ChrisD said:


> I assume that reading pdf s formatted to A4 is no easier on this than previous kindles?
> 
> I have to look through long pdf s for work and find kindle screen too small for A4 stuff.
> I know you can rotate 90 degrees but then scolling through pages is less easy.... I pad is bigger and can enlarge bits easily but I prefer e ink.


doesn't calibre let you convert them?


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## 2hats (Oct 11, 2013)

ChrisD said:


> I assume that reading pdf s formatted to A4 is no easier on this than previous kindles?



Yes, I'd say so. Bit of a PITA. I just load PDFs on mine for reference (ie random page or two at a time). Anything I want to read cover to cover or use for learning is in mobi format. Having to read page after page of a large PDF on a Kindle would probably drive me slightly mad.


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## ChrisD (Oct 11, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> doesn't calibre let you convert them?



yes but as hats says reading an A4 page reduced to sub A5 is quite a strain.... would be nice to be able to enlarge the relevant bit with 2 fingers like an ipad but still use e ink....
I have lots of reference PDFs on the kindle for work but in reality use them on a PC with nice big screen.


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## joustmaster (Oct 11, 2013)

ChrisD said:


> yes but as hats says reading an A4 page reduced to sub A5 is quite a strain.... would be nice to be able to enlarge the relevant bit with 2 fingers like an ipad but still use e ink....
> I have lots of reference PDFs on the kindle for work but in reality use them on a PC with nice big screen.


i mean convert them to a different format. so they are just text..


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## joustmaster (Oct 11, 2013)

i've just checked.. and yes, you can convert from pdf to mobi


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## 2hats (Oct 11, 2013)

ChrisD said:


> yes but as hats says reading an A4 page reduced to sub A5 is quite a strain....



Calibre will convert PDF to mobi or epub but the layout tends to get mauled, to the point of being almost useless for any technical documentation. I doubt fiction or other non-technical would fare much better.

"All the words are there, just not necessarily in (quite) the right order", to paraphrase some bloke from Lancashire.


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## alsoknownas (Oct 11, 2013)

Yeah, pdf to mobi doesn't work very well unfortunately.  If you're lucky you get something readable.


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## joustmaster (Oct 11, 2013)

I've just converted a book from pdf to mobi. (a kurt vonnegut one)

and yes, it was a mess.. But I had a quick fiddle with the options and rules you can set, before it converts, and have managed to make it look ok.

I guess it would be easier just to buy it, but i bought it and lost it a couple of weekends ago, and the kindle version is nearly twice the price.


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## Vintage Paw (Oct 11, 2013)

Obviously scanned pdf can't be converted at all, since they are essentially just pictures of text. But as others have mentioned, original pdfs can be converted, but it has been my experience as well that the formatting - even when trying to get your head around calibre's formatting and heuristics tools - is atrocious.


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## Epona (Oct 11, 2013)

I tend to avoid pdfs (unless that's the only option) because when you convert them to mobi format there are usually formatting glitches that I can't be arsed/am too lazy to sort out (my dad kind of makes a hobby out of it though).

I love my Kindle btw, it's my most used/treasured gadget after my PC.


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## chasbo zelena (Oct 11, 2013)

Like the light. 
They're so fragile though..
 I broke mine buy leaving it in a hotish car at 6pm for an hour  
3 year insurance it is then.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 12, 2013)

I did go and buy one and thank you to the OP for the thread start and those that posted with additional info.
I have plugged it in and charged it up, some problems with copying ripped copies (KIndle content DRM removed) from PC to Device but relatively minor. Not had time to evaluate it as as reading device but will let you all know i think in due course.


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## Epona (Oct 12, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I did go and buy one and thank you to the OP for the thread start and those that posted with additional info.
> I have plugged it in and charged it up, some problems with copying ripped copies (KIndle content DRM removed) from PC to Device but relatively minor. Not had time to evaluate it as as reading device but will let you all know i think in due course.



I use Calibre to manage/sync my library on my PC with my Kindle content, I've not had much luck with copying protected content from another source myself (as is to be expected!) unfortunately the demise of demonoid was a sorry day for me - I used to get most of my ebooks from there and have yet to find anywhere else as good.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 12, 2013)

Epona said:


> I use Calibre to manage/sync my library on my PC with my Kindle content, I've not had much luck with copying protected content from another source myself (as is to be expected!) unfortunately the demise of demonoid was a sorry day for me - I used to get most of my ebooks from there and have yet to find anywhere else as good.



I loved demonoid and was a bigger fan of BTJunkie but the mother and father of all things is TBP. (You may need to use a proxy to access it, dependent on your location and ISP, if you are stuck i can help.)


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## Epona (Oct 12, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I loved demonoid and was a bigger fan of BTJunkie but the mother and father of all things is TBP. (You may need to use a proxy to access it, dependent on your location and ISP, if you are stuck i can help.)



No help needed but thanks for the offer, last time I looked they weren't as good as demonoid for books but might have improved.  It's not as if I'm in any hurry, I have a fair old catalogue of books to get through - my kindle collection is rapidly approaching my physical book collection in size


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## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 12, 2013)

Epona said:


> No help needed but thanks for the offer, last time I looked they weren't as good as demonoid for books but might have improved.  It's not as if I'm in any hurry, I have a fair old catalogue of books to get through - my kindle collection is rapidly approaching my physical book collection in size



A friend suggested to to me use IRC forums for ebooks. I'm drunk now so forgive my lack of clarity, but he showed me how to do it once but i have forgotten, something about correct list commands and robot responses. I have 30,000 ebooks and some of the ones i have tried to transfer to my new Kindle via my PC are problematic in that i can copy and paste them (know i know where to put them) but Windows 7 tells me "some of the contents cannot be copied to device, do you want to continue?" I say yes! If i am lucky they show up as sample books that Kindle then want to question me about my "change of region", if i am less lucky they don't display on the device at all (just empty folders. 
Early days yet, had less than an hour with it and all of the above does not reflect on the quality of the device as a reading instrument which is the main thrust of this thread.


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## Epona (Oct 12, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> ...and all of the above does not reflect on the quality of the device as a reading instrument which is the main thrust of this thread.



Absolutely, I love my Kindle.  The last few days I've wanted to re-read some of my physical books and it's uncomfortable to say the least (I have arthritis in some of the joints in my hands), I have an older model than the one being discussed here, but I wouldn't be without it.  Easy on the eyes as well as the hands, no need to carry a bag full of books around with me, I don't know how I ever managed without it


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## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 12, 2013)

Epona said:


> Absolutely, I love my Kindle.  The last few days I've wanted to re-read some of my physical books and it's uncomfortable to say the least (I have arthritis in some of the joints in my hands), I have an older model than the one being discussed here, but I wouldn't be without it.  Easy on the eyes as well as the hands, no need to carry a bag full of books around with me, I don't know how I ever managed without it



I tend to read for purpose rather than pleasure but i wish to alter that balance. When i do read for pleasure i love it and it is something i regret not doing more of. I'm hoping this early birthday present to myself gives me the gift of easy reading.


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## Epona (Oct 12, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I tend to read for purpose rather than pleasure but i wish to alter that balance. When i do read for pleasure i love it and it is something i regret not doing more of. I'm hoping this early birthday present to myself gives me the gift of easy reading.



I get it - I did evening study for 5 years (A levels followed by a BA) whilst working full time and it was such hard work with such a lot of reading (and had become such a way of life) that I couldn't pick up any book, even the most trivial fiction, for a while afterwards.  It took me a good few months after my finals to be able to relax in any situation without feeling as though I really ought to be studying, and it took me a lot longer than that to be able to pick up a book just for the sake of pleasure without that feeling that I ought to be poring over texts and making notes rather than just enjoying for the sake of enjoyment!  Once that feeling had eventually passed, it didn't take me too long to catch up with a good dose of fiction


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## ska invita (Oct 13, 2013)

fuck amazon


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## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 13, 2013)

I've spent most of my weekend reading on the new Kindle Paperwhite, the light is essential in my opinion. Copied some DRM denuded content across and downloaded a good few free books.
It's my first ebook reader so i can't compare it to others/previous versions. I love it and recommend it.


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## Sunray (Oct 13, 2013)

chandlerp said:


> yes, if you swipe all the way to bottom it does look off but in a very dark room you can see the light is actually still on.



Yup, this is still the case, when 'off' its still on, just.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 13, 2013)

The light setting is a bit odd tend to leave mine at around 15. If it was at zero it would be unreadable but have yet to try it outdoors.


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## Gromit (Oct 14, 2013)

My screen broke after 2 months for no known reason. In a protective cover and not been bashed around. 

In fairness to Amazon a new one arrived two days after reporting the fault. No hassle convincing them or proof of purchase inquisitions.


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## Chz (Oct 14, 2013)

Gromit said:


> My screen broke after 2 months for no known reason. In a protective cover and not been bashed around.
> 
> In fairness to Amazon a new one arrived two days after reporting the fault. No hassle convincing them or proof of purchase inquisitions.


They'll generally replace it *once* even if it's obviously your fault. Past that it had better not be obviously abused though.


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## Bob_the_lost (Oct 16, 2013)

Up to the one year limit, then they won't give a flying fuck. Good service but they only care up to a certain point.


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## Chz (Oct 16, 2013)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Up to the one year limit, then they won't give a flying fuck. Good service but they only care up to a certain point.


Two years if you're willing to get all snitty with them. Firstly because they cave fairly easily on things like that (Kindles are meant to help you buy more Amazon stuff), secondly because of the EU directive that you've helpfully quoted to them if you've any sense.


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## Bob_the_lost (Oct 16, 2013)

Chz said:


> Two years if you're willing to get all snitty with them. Firstly because they cave fairly easily on things like that (Kindles are meant to help you buy more Amazon stuff), secondly because of the EU directive that you've helpfully quoted to them if you've any sense.


I tried that, they didn't bite. Probably because they'd already replaced a faulty one for me. In the end I just wanted rid of it and bought a kobo


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2013)

Mine came today, VERY nice update. I had the 3G keyboad one first week of release and this is a leap ahead of the UX of that.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Dec 1, 2013)

Had mine seven weeks now and loving it, read six books in that time. Have over a hundred free ones.
Noticed the page turns getting slower and the whole application just failed earlier this evening, locking the screen but a ten second hold on the power button rebooted the device. Phew!
Very happy with it.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Dec 6, 2013)

Just had my first software update, Amazon claim performance improvements but i can't detect them . 

Kindle FreeTime is a new feature that, "lets you create personalised profiles for kids and gives them access to titles from your collection. Children are rewarded with achievement badges that keep track of their personal reading accomplishments. A progress report keeps parents updated on a child's total time spent reading, books read, number of words looked up and badges earned."
There is also something about Cloud Collections......


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 15, 2014)

Does anyone have the Amazon Kindle Paperwhite cover? It seems ridiculously expensive especially when compared to the cost of the device.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008BQH1NO/ref=cm_pdp_wish_itm_img_1

Thing is, i really want it but there are cheaper versions out there. Is it worth getting as a treat?


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## stupid dogbot (Jan 15, 2014)

I do, but not one of those. I've got a waterproof (which that isn't) slide-in case, rather than one of those leather flip covers. Way cheaper, too.


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## EastEnder (Jan 15, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Does anyone have the Amazon Kindle Paperwhite cover? It seems ridiculously expensive especially when compared to the cost of the device.
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008BQH1NO/ref=cm_pdp_wish_itm_img_1
> 
> Thing is, i really want it but there are cheaper versions out there. Is it worth getting as a treat?


I've got that cover - does what it says on the tin, quite sturdy, nicely made, magnet catch, turns the kindle on/off by opening/closing it, etc. Fits very snugly indeed, sort of feels like an extension of the Kindle, rather than a bulky add-on. Whether cheaper 3rd party versions are any better or worse I couldn't say, having only used the one I've got. 30 quid is a bit steep, but not overly so for what you get, imho.


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## Winot (Jan 15, 2014)

EastEnder said:


> I've got that cover - does what it says on the tin, quite sturdy, nicely made, magnet catch, turns the kindle on/off by opening/closing it, etc. Fits very snugly indeed, sort of feels like an extension of the Kindle, rather than a bulky add-on. Whether cheaper 3rd party versions are any better or worse I couldn't say, having only used the one I've got. 30 quid is a bit steep, but not overly so for what you get, imho.


 
ditto


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 15, 2014)

I'd quite like one, but can't justify it whilst my old one still works.


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## chandlerp (Jan 15, 2014)

Having had other covers I would only get the official one in future.  It is just perfect.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 15, 2014)

Chz said:


> The Nook. Opposite of Kobo. Started well and gone downhill. Not recommended any more, in my opinion.



Yeah, bit disappointed in mine.  The battery gave out after only a year or so of light use.  Unfortunately, its a sealed case.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks for your feedback on the covers, i'm going to buy the official one, it's a lot of money but it looks great and i love my Kindle. Now i have to do something virtuous to justify the expense.


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## oryx (Jan 16, 2014)

If anyone wants a cover and doesn't want/can't afford the leather one, I would really recommend Tecknet ones at around a tenner.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 17, 2014)

Man I love mine! Easily one of the top devices I've ever owned!


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 20, 2014)

Just discovered "landscape mode."


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 20, 2014)

Now have the cover, love it even more.


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