# Welsh road signs



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2014)

So they want to put Welsh above or to the left of the English on road signs now...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-27676999

Much as (for better or worse) Welsh is a minority language within Wales this hardly seems likely to do anyone any harm to me - the signs will still have both languages on them (though the Beeb is unclear in whether this would mean replacing all existing signage in one go - I would guess not).


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## wiskey (Jun 3, 2014)

Surely they would have to do it all at once, people will naturally expect to see one language at the top (be it English or Welsh) and having a mixture of both will be distracting...

Eta: ignore that the article says they are already mixed up and that new signs will only appear as old ones are replaced.


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## weepiper (Jun 3, 2014)

Can't see the problem. That's how we do it in the Western Isles with Gaelic


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## laptop (Jun 3, 2014)




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## wiskey (Jun 3, 2014)

laptop said:


>


Is that the out of office reply?


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## farmerbarleymow (Jun 3, 2014)

I could see the point in the north of the country where Welsh is more widely spoken, but perhaps not so much in areas in the south where I understand this isn't the case.  Like the example weepiper posted above, it could be done on a more regional basis rather than across the board.


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## farmerbarleymow (Jun 3, 2014)

wiskey said:


> Is that the out of office reply?



I think it will be.


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## editor (Jun 3, 2014)

wiskey said:


> Surely they would have to do it all at once, people will naturally expect to see one language at the top (be it English or Welsh) and having a mixture of both will be distracting...


It's really not that hard to work out though.


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## farmerbarleymow (Jun 3, 2014)

editor said:


> It's really not that hard to work out though.



But isn't one of the key principles of road signage that it is very consistent, so drivers travelling at speed can see the sign and meaning at a glance?  So if it was rolled out gradually as and when signs needed replacing it could be a patchwork effect even in local areas.


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## editor (Jun 3, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> But isn't one of the key principles of road signage that it is very consistent, so drivers travelling at speed can see the sign and meaning at a glance?  So if it was rolled out gradually as and when signs needed replacing it could be a patchwork effect even in local areas.


So make it consistent then: one language on top. I don't care which. Or leave it as it is. I really don't think it's an issue.


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2014)

editor said:


> It's really not that hard to work out though.



Yeah, I think you'd have to be driving a bit too fast to get too confused.  If it's an area you know then whether you're from the North or South you'll know both versions anyway (if not how to pronounce them right), and people who don't know the area tend to be using satnav, or can just slow down a bit.


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## farmerbarleymow (Jun 3, 2014)

editor said:


> So make it consistent then: one language on top. I don't care which.



Neither do I - I like the fact that we have the bilingual signs in the UK.  As ever with implementation of a new approach like this, the devil is in the detail but thankfully that is something the authorities can work out.  I draw the line at bilingual English/Manc signs though.


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## ChrisD (Jun 3, 2014)

I was thinking about this last week as I was travelling through s Wales.  The extra clutter annoys me...I'd rather smaller signs with 1 language (& quite happy with "minority tongue") doesn't take much pondering to understand ARAF in big white letters on the road. I'm all for local distinctiveness.


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2014)

If you can drive properly you shouldn't need the ARAF on the road tbf.


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## xenon (Jun 3, 2014)

When will they finaly put Braile on road signs eh?


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## Plumdaff (Jun 3, 2014)

It currently depends on the local authority which language is first. I notice the switch most driving west from Swansea into Carmarthenshire. This would simply standardise signage on a national basis. 

I don't see what there is to object to?


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2014)

Plumdaff said:


> I don't see what there is to object to?



I'm not sure either.  Perhaps it just relates to some antagonisms between local authorities and Welsh language groups.  Which would be a shame.


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## fishfinger (Jun 4, 2014)

Snowdon to Brecon Beacons -> 21 minutes by dragon

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Snowdon/Brecon Beacons/@52.30294,-3.3180965,8z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x4865098216d283bd:0x7fe2ceeb3aa47434!2m2!1d-4.0762766!2d53.068504!1m5!1m1!1s0x486e3157111665a7:0x9ea6bc18439910a2!2m2!1d-3.4333333!2d51.8833333!3e3


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2014)

It's already Welsh first on signs in much of Wales. All this is doing is bringing the remaining local authorities in line with that.  And it's only to be done as and when existing signs would be replaced anyway.

Really no big deal.


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## existentialist (Jun 4, 2014)

I live in Wales, and drive a lot, but until this thread the order had never occurred to me.


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## ddraig (Jun 4, 2014)

yup, about time too!


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## ddraig (Jun 4, 2014)

oi fishfinger don't be making my secret flight paths public!


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## existentialist (Jun 4, 2014)

English people who come to Wales do often get quite exercised about the dual language signs, but I really don't see what the fuss is about. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of waste it engenders is negligible, given that road signs usually stay up for quite a while - I'd be more concerned at the way it isn't possible to simply elect for your official communications, etc., to come in one language or another, so everything ends up coming in duplicate.

It would be a little more sensible if there were a consistent policy across Wales, though. Unlike in Scotland, where the Gaelic names get printed in a different colour, they're all in the same colour here, so the inconsistency could in theory be a cause of confusion as to which name was Welsh and which was English (though even there, it's usually pretty bloody obvious in practice! Tenby vs Dinbych y Pysgod isn't hard to figure out  )


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## 8ball (Jun 4, 2014)

If there was a place whose English name was Dinbych y Pysgod I could understand people claiming dual language signs could be confusing, but I'm pretty sure there are no cases similar to this.


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## existentialist (Jun 4, 2014)

8ball said:


> If there was a place whose English name was Dinbych y Pysgod I could understand people claiming dual language signs could be confusing, but I'm pretty sure there are no cases similar to this.


I suspect that quite a lot of the complaints about "confusing" dual language signs are more about "Who do these Welsh bastards think they are, putting their long and incomprehensible place names on our BRITISH, DAMMIT, road signs?".

UKIP thinking, basically - "it's not familiar, I don't like it, it shouldn't happen, make it stop".


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## 8ball (Jun 4, 2014)

existentialist said:


> I suspect that quite a lot of the complaints about "confusing" dual language signs are more about "Who do these Welsh bastards think they are, putting their long and incomprehensible place names on our BRITISH, DAMMIT, road signs?".
> 
> UKIP thinking, basically - "it's not familiar, I don't like it, it shouldn't happen, make it stop".


 
Are you talking about English people?


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## existentialist (Jun 4, 2014)

8ball said:


> Are you talking about English people?


I'm not saying it's exclusively English people, but the only people I've ever heard expressing the view that Welsh/English road signs are any kind of problem have been English people, yes. They normally make the remark somewhere between the sheepshagging joke and the "Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief..." rhyme.

There are probably some fundie Welsh nationalists around who think we should take the English off the signs and have them in just Welsh, but since I don't speak much Welsh myself, I shouldn't imagine they'd be talking to people like me


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## bendeus (Jun 5, 2014)

existentialist said:


> English people who come to Wales do often get quite exercised about the dual language signs,



Well they really ought to not bother coming, then. Door. Arseonthewayout, etc.


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## bendeus (Jun 5, 2014)

existentialist said:


> I'm not saying it's exclusively English people, but the only people I've ever heard expressing the view that Welsh/English road signs are any kind of problem have been English people, yes. They normally make the remark somewhere between the sheepshagging joke and the "Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief..." rhyme.
> 
> There are probably some fundie Welsh nationalists around who think we should take the English off the signs and have them in just Welsh, but since I don't speak much Welsh myself, I shouldn't imagine they'd be talking to people like me



I'm not a fundie Welsh nationalist but I think monolingual signs would be just fine. There would be a whole load of greetin' and moanin' to begin with, and Sir Humphrey Bagshot-Forbes would cry discrimination, but it would soon die down, people would get used to it and just get on with it. 

Some of the bilingual signs are just farcical. Just call the place Caerffili rather than Caerffili/Caerphilly, ffs, save a bit of space and all.


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## existentialist (Jun 5, 2014)

bendeus said:


> I'm not a fundie Welsh nationalist but I think monolingual signs would be just fine. There would be a whole load of greetin' and moanin' to begin with, and Sir Humphrey Bagshot-Forbes would cry discrimination, but it would soon die down, people would get used to it and just get on with it.
> 
> Some of the bilingual signs are just farcical. Just call the place Caerffili rather than Caerffili/Caerphilly, ffs, save a bit of space and all.


I've learned pretty much everything I know about Welsh pronunciation and transliteration from those farcical combinations! Keep them, I say...


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## laptop (Jun 5, 2014)

fishfinger said:


> Snowdon to Brecon Beacons -> 21 minutes by dragon
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Snowdon/Brecon Beacons/@52.30294,-3.3180965,8z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x4865098216d283bd:0x7fe2ceeb3aa47434!2m2!1d-4.0762766!2d53.068504!1m5!1m1!1s0x486e3157111665a7:0x9ea6bc18439910a2!2m2!1d-3.4333333!2d51.8833333!3e3
> 
> View attachment 55096



Who the fuck managed to hack that in?


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## ddraig (Jun 6, 2014)

it is all official like


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## laptop (Jun 6, 2014)

ddraig said:


> it is all official like


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## fishfinger (Jun 6, 2014)

laptop said:


> Who the fuck managed to hack that in?


It's an Easter egg, or in this case, probably an Eisteddfod egg.


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## ddraig (Jun 6, 2014)

laptop said:


>


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/travelling-snowdon-brecon-beacons-google-7220786


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## laptop (Jun 6, 2014)

fishfinger said:


> It's an Easter egg, or in this case, probably an Eisteddfod egg.



I found that out about 2am 

Also try Urquhart Castle to Fort Augustus


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## Spymaster (Sep 22, 2014)

How to pronounce Welsh road signs. 

So the language priorities are set by individual highway authorities, some placing English first and others Welsh. 

No big deal but it does mean you get some weird looking signs on the side of the roads there. Irish signs look tidier than the Welsh ones because the name places generally aren't as long, and of course Ireland is a proper UN member state unlike Wales and Scotland so _should_ have road signs in its own language.

Signs should really be in the language most widely understood by the populace of the state they're in, and Welsh isn't even the most widely spoken language in Wales!  

Still, if it makes them happy ....


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