# BBC report: Apple 'failing to protect Chinese factory workers'



## editor (Dec 19, 2014)

So here's how the richest, most profitable and coolest tech company in the world treats its workers: 


> Poor treatment of workers in Chinese factories which make Apple products has been discovered by an undercover BBC Panorama investigation.
> 
> Filming on an iPhone 6 production line showed Apple's promises to protect workers were routinely broken.
> 
> ...


It's on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vs348


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## editor (Dec 19, 2014)

Here's the trailer:


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 21, 2014)

Shocking stuff. I remember that days when posts like this would have had 30 pages of people slagging each other off!


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

Poor old Apple are now 'deeply offended' at the BBC.


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## Wilson (Dec 22, 2014)

Deeply offended by the bbc uncovering the fact that they make 12 year old Indonesians work at the face of a tin mine.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2014)

Ok let's get this thread going: clearly anyone paying attention will know that Panaroma has had a really dodgy reputation for years now. Apple can't controls exactly where tin comes from but then neither can all the other companies using it either.

Is that good enough for an old skool flame war?


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## tim (Dec 22, 2014)

They would be, wouldn't they?


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ok let's get this thread going: clearly anyone paying attention will know that Panaroma has had a really dodgy reputation for years now. Apple can't controls exactly where tin comes from but then neither can all the other companies using it either.
> 
> Is that good enough for an old skool flame war?


Ah. Gotcha. It's all about Panorama's "dodgy reputation."

Poor old Apple.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2014)

I think the point is that everyones drinking from the same well so to speak, so they're all child murdering cunts whose CEO's should be shipped to the salt mines


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## Ted Striker (Dec 22, 2014)

Shouldn't this be in the Xmas forum? It's either a) a whopping gift from the BBC to or Ed, or b) An Apple-flameathon so textbook in it's structure (if perhaps lacking in originality or depth), that it's only right that we included it when we're in an end-of-year reviewy mindset to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

In years to come maybe an Apple vs Android moral/tech/social update will be up there with the Strictly/X Factor final as the real national cultural mood barometer?


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I think the point is that everyones drinking from the same well so to speak, so they're all child murdering cunts whose CEO's should be shipped to the salt mines


Except some are drinking a lot more than others while being hailed as a cool and aspirational brand. That's kinda the real point.


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## dylanredefined (Dec 22, 2014)

Well they may have problems trying to ensure the raw materials are mined with some standards. 
No excuse for the way their products are assembled.
 I really want an i pad as well


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## JimW (Dec 22, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I think the point is that everyones drinking from the same well so to speak, so they're all child murdering cunts whose CEO's should be shipped to the salt mines


Guardian had a bit on conditions at a place they make novelty santa hats: http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...a-that-makes-the-worlds-christmas-decorations


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

dylanredefined said:


> Well they may have problems trying to ensure the raw materials are mined with some standards.
> No excuse for the way their products are assembled.
> I really want an i pad as well


You'd think Apple might just have the resources to make things just a teensy weensy bit better for those workers. 


> Apple alone had £95.8billion ($158.8billion) in cash on its balance sheet – a stunning five per cent of world cash reserves.
> http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-firms-hold-over-1-3-of-world-s-cash-reserves


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## pesh (Dec 22, 2014)

meanwhile from the manufacturers of editors new phone
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-apple-isnt-the-only-firm-with-labor-issues/

they're all cunts.


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

pesh said:


> meanwhile from the manufacturers of editors new phone
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-apple-isnt-the-only-firm-with-labor-issues/
> 
> they're all cunts.


That's over a year old, but thanks for missing the point.


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## pesh (Dec 22, 2014)

the BBC report was quoting stuff from 2010. what is your point?


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

pesh said:


> the BBC report was quoting stuff from 2010. what is your point?


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## pesh (Dec 22, 2014)




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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

pesh said:


>


I'm sorry you can't work out why the richest, most profitable, most aspirational and lauded tech company currently holding 5% of the world's cash reserves should perhaps be the ones expected to lead by example, and I'm sorry that you're unable to work out why the BBC report cites previous claims and frames them in a modern context to judge performance.


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## Wilson (Dec 22, 2014)

dylanredefined said:


> Well they may have problems trying to ensure the raw materials are mined with some standards.
> No excuse for the way their products are assembled.
> I really want an i pad as well



They could invest in Cornish tin mining.


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## Lo Siento. (Dec 22, 2014)

editor said:


> Except some are drinking a lot more than others while being hailed as a cool and aspirational brand. That's kinda the real point.



Depends what "real point" you're going for. 

If the point is "Apple are arseholes, buy from Google". Then I pass. 
If the point is "all multi-national companies are engaged in exploitation, even the cool, aspirational ones that sell themselves as above all that". Then agreed.


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> Depends what "real point" you're going for.
> 
> If the point is "Apple are arseholes, buy from Google". Then I pass.
> If the point is "all multi-national companies are engaged in exploitation, even the cool, aspirational ones that sell themselves as above all that". Then agreed.


The point is indeed that all multi-national companies are engaged in exploitation, even the cool, aspirational ones that sell themselves as above all that. 

They're all money grabbing cunts, but Apple are the most exploitative of the lot, sitting on a truly obscene amount of wealth, yet somehow people seem to forgive them completely (or choose not to care) because they make cool expensive things'n'shit.


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## Kanda (Dec 22, 2014)

Ok.. I'll bite...(cos I'm bored) Are Apple the most exploitive of all multinational companies? Can you prove that statement? Or is it you just pulling shite out of your arse?


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

Kanda said:


> Ok.. I'll bite...(cos I'm bored) Are Apple the most exploitive of all multinational companies? Can you prove that statement? Or is it you just pulling shite out of your arse?


They make more money than anyone else. A lot more. So go work it out, fanboy.


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## Kanda (Dec 22, 2014)

editor said:


> They make more money than anyone else. A lot more. So go work it out, fanboy.



Fanboy? Really? I don't even own an Apple product. You're fucking bonkers.


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

Kanda said:


> Fanboy? Really? I don't even own an Apple product. You're fucking bonkers.


Have you fallen out of love with them? Am I sorry to hear about that. And your home used to be stuffed full of their products too!


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## Kanda (Dec 22, 2014)

editor said:


> Have you fallen out of love with them? Am I sorry to hear about that. And your home used to be stuffed full of their products too!



Why you are bringing up that I had bought Apple products back in 2008 (ish) and how it is relevant to this article is beyond me. Bit of a childish statement maybe?

Do Apple make more than all the other horrible multinationals then? That's what you said...


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

Kanda said:


> Bit of a childish statement maybe?


Sorry, _I'm_ childish?


Kanda said:


> Or is it you just pulling shite out of your arse?


 

Anyway, the context of the discussion is exploitative _tech_ multi-national companies. Given that Apple make far far more profit than any other company, it would appear logical that they must exploit the market more.

If you don't think that's true, perhaps you could list the ways in which they do better than their rivals? 

When it comes to giving money to charitable causes over the past decade, their record is certainly_ abysmal,_ for example.


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## Kanda (Dec 22, 2014)

Oh, so it's 'tech multinationals' only now... Cos it wasn't earlier if you re-read the thread.

and yes, you're like a dog with a bone when it comes to Apple. That's plain to see for everyone. It's funny to watch though. 

Nite


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## Lo Siento. (Dec 22, 2014)

editor said:


> They're all money grabbing cunts, but Apple are the most exploitative of the lot, sitting on a truly obscene amount of wealth, yet somehow people seem to forgive them completely (or choose not to care) because they make cool expensive things'n'shit.



Agreed. But we live under global capitalism so it's impossible to exist without buying products connected with exploitation. So what to do?


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> Agreed. But we live under global capitalism so it's impossible to exist without buying products connected with exploitation. So what to do?


I think highlighting and challenging the practises of the company trousering the most from this exploitation - by an _almighty_ factor - is as good a place to start as any. 

Apple are sitting on a fucking sky-high mountain of cash while their products continue to be produced in horrendous conditions and no one seems interested in raising that point. 

Yes, other companies are involved in the same practices, but Apple are the one company who could _really_ make a difference if they chose to.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Dec 22, 2014)

Part of the problem was that apple stated and indeed promised they would improve conditions for workers in supply factories.
They haven't really ensured that conditions improved . at all....the video footage is pretty clear on that.



As a company with a self promoted particular image of being better than the rest in every way possible. ..one expects them to be good employers. Now they're "offended" by the bbc documentary. Well fuckem...more of this type of reporting needs to be done all over china. The fact that this maltreatment is tolerated is disgusting and the fact that a multinational, supposedly squeaky clean, people friendly company like apple is offended by the truth of their own dirty employment record is sickening.
Of course they're not the only ones....but just because they are one of many western companies exploiting the chinese labour force doesnt absolve them from criticism. Especially as they claim to be better in every way......they're as shite as every other company that puts the dollar over the health and safety of its workers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/11303052/Apple-working-conditions-Tim-Cook.html

^^^^^^^^
Here's apples response to the bbc.
It smells of bullshit... claiming they wont move from companies mining in Indonesia ...the ones exploiting children. ..the reason apple gives is that it wont solve anything ... it wont make the children's working lives any better.  So they're going to continue buying tin from the same exploitative companies and try to change things within these same companies. Their record unfortunately shows a big fail in that sort of action though so we could be watching little kids next year, still mining for tin for apple ...
Bravo apple...what a great example of showing the way to lead from the back.


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> As a company with a self promoted particular image of being better than the rest in every way possible. ..one expects them to be good employers.


In a nutshell.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 22, 2014)

The point isn't that Apple are better or worse than anyone else or have any more responsibility, as far as I'm concerned.

The point is that Apple are certainly as bad as all the other cunts and are also an easier target, because of their brand image, ubiquity etc. That's where you can get the initial knife in. It's always useful to have a focal point. Of course, action does then need to be made general - and connected with local labour groups. But using Apple as a lever is a sensible tactic.


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## elbows (Dec 22, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The point isn't that Apple are better or worse than anyone else or have any more responsibility, as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> The point is that Apple are certainly as bad as all the other cunts and are also an easier target, because of their brand image, ubiquity etc. That's where you can get the initial knife in. It's always useful to have a focal point. Of course, action does then need to be made general - and connected with local labour groups. But using Apple as a lever is a sensible tactic.



Yep, makes complete sense from a propaganda point of view. And please note that I use the word propaganda all the time on u75 in regards to many different things, I don't let the negative connotations put me off and I'm sick of its cleansed child, PR. 

The only problem with this tactic is if some people who receive the message misinterpret it as meaning other well-known smartphone etc manufacturers are less guilty, and that buying one of those offers moral high-ground. Hopefully not many will make that mistake, and certainly after that Panorama was on one of my friends on Facebook was asking desperately what a better alternative was. The suggestion she received was fairphone:

http://www.fairphone.com

After studying it for a while, I ended up with mixed feelings. Its a great idea and its good to raise awareness of the issues. But I have to read a whole bunch of greenwashing-style waffle in order to get to the bottom of things. Which is that their first phone didn't come close to their aims on hardly any level, and they aren't sticking with the same manufacturing partners for the next one. And when they do the next one, I don't expect them to achieve a huge leap compared to the first one. There are so many pinch-points where certain components are manufactured by a very small handful of high-tech firms, and a great lack of transparency when it comes to supply of certain key raw materials.


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## elbows (Dec 22, 2014)

I mean a good example would be that no matter how bitter their legal disputes got at certain points, Apple still end up having to go back to Samsung for certain components. So Apple have no chance of cleaning up their act across their entire supply chain unless Samsung do the same.

On another level, one of the things that powers Apples creepiness is that Steve Jobs loved Japanese corporate culture and wanted to emulate bits of it. The very same corporate culture that when expressed in various other countries in that part of the world such as South Korea, tends to encapsulate some of the stuff that we are more familiar with from certain sci-fi dystopian fiction. But its not pure fiction, its a chunk of the story of post-WW2, 'anti-communist', capitalist dictator miracle economic growth in that part of the world.


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

Kanda said:


> Oh, so it's 'tech multinationals' only now... Cos it wasn't earlier if you re-read the thread.


My *first post*:


editor said:


> So here's how the richest, most profitable and coolest tech company in the world treats its workers:
> 
> It's on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vs348


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2014)

Haha now this is more like it![emoji41]


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

elbows said:


> I mean a good example would be that no matter how bitter their legal disputes got at certain points, Apple still end up having to go back to Samsung for certain components. So Apple have no chance of cleaning up their act across their entire supply chain unless Samsung do the same.
> 
> On another level, one of the things that powers Apples creepiness is that Steve Jobs loved Japanese corporate culture and wanted to emulate bits of it. The very same corporate culture that when expressed in various other countries in that part of the world such as South Korea, tends to encapsulate some of the stuff that we are more familiar with from certain sci-fi dystopian fiction. But its not pure fiction, its a chunk of the story of post-WW2, 'anti-communist', capitalist dictator miracle economic growth in that part of the world.


Or they could choose to only buy supplies from companies ethically sourcing their parts. It's not like they can't afford to pay a bit more and make a tiny bit less profit per unit, if that's what it takes.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2014)

Kanda said:


> Oh, so it's 'tech multinationals' only now... Cos it wasn't earlier if you re-read the thread.
> 
> and yes, you're like a dog with a bone when it comes to Apple. That's plain to see for everyone. It's funny to watch though.
> 
> Nite



Like a well trained animal we all play out the same tedious roles...


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## dylanredefined (Dec 22, 2014)

Anyone want to post those old apple adverts where they were fighting oppression lol..

 The thing I hate about myself if I had the money I know I would buy an armful of apple products in a heartbeat. There is no reason for them to be crap not like they are scrabbling to stay afloat.


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## elbows (Dec 22, 2014)

editor said:


> Or they could choose to only buy supplies from companies ethically sourcing their parts. It's not like they can't afford to pay a bit more and make a tiny bit less profit per unit, if that's what it takes.



I wish they would. But this isn't easy, as far as I'm concerned the way fabrication of tech things is setup in the world means there is no such thing as an IT ethical supply chain to be found, and it won't be trivial or perhaps even possible to create one without lots of partners joining in. Its also hard to imagine it living up to the hype so long as its done under capitalism, since Apple and these partners would probably be sacrificing more than a shade of profitability and at their most sane, decent and fair these great new practices would be the antithesis of their corporate DNA.


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## editor (Dec 22, 2014)

elbows said:


> I wish they would. But this isn't easy, as far as I'm concerned the way fabrication of tech things is setup in the world means there is no such thing as an IT ethical supply chain to be found, and it won't be trivial or perhaps even possible to create one without lots of partners joining in. Its also hard to imagine it living up to the hype so long as its done under capitalism, since Apple and these partners would probably be sacrificing more than a shade of profitability and at their most sane, decent and fair these great new practices would be the antithesis of their corporate DNA.


Of course it's not easy - but I doubt very much if it's actually impossible for a company with Apple's talents and vast, phenomenal wealth.


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