# Forbrydelsen (The Killing) - S3 - SPOILERS



## ChrisD (Nov 13, 2012)

It's back Saturday 17th November...http://www.radiotimes.com/programme/w88/the-killing
9pm  BBC 4.

Seems that Duchess of Cornwall's been to visit the set when filming.... this gives away the jumper plot ....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2012/mar/27/duchess-cornwall-the-killing-video
but hopefully it will be as well written and acted as the last 2 series. This time it's supposed to be written about the financial crises.


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## Maurice Picarda (Nov 13, 2012)

If it represents the same decline in quality on the second that the second did on the first, count me out. But if it has levelled out, fine.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm looking forward to it.


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 13, 2012)

me too


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## belboid (Nov 13, 2012)

second series was great, much tighter.  didnt even matter too much that someone told me who the killer was before I'd seen it...


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## Orang Utan (Nov 13, 2012)

the harry and paul pisstake of this was hilarious (though not much else was)


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## Lord Camomile (Nov 13, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> If it represents the same decline in quality on the second that the second did on the first, count me out. But if it has levelled out, fine.


Word is it's turned back to being similar to the first.

I really need to get round to seeing the end of series 2


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 14, 2012)

Excellent. Foooorbrid'elson.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 14, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> the harry and paul pisstake of this was hilarious


I find that hard to believe, but since it's you, I'm forced to take your word for it.


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## ChrisD (Nov 14, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> If it represents the same decline in quality on the second that the second did on the first, count me out. But if it has levelled out, fine.


 
Apparently it's already been screened in Denmark.  Danish contacts tell me that it's so dark that it may as well have been filmed in monochrome. (Dark photographically AND content)


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 14, 2012)

I couldn't really get into the second series but I didn't give it much of a try. I need some quality drama in my life so I'm looking forward to this series.


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## Reno (Nov 14, 2012)

I missed series 2. Did anything important happen to jumperwoman which I need to know if I'm going to watch this ?


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## Johnny Vodka (Nov 14, 2012)

Not seen series 1.  Saw series 2.  It was shit.  Not watching series 3.


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## Maurice Picarda (Nov 14, 2012)

Reno said:


> I missed series 2. Did anything important happen to jumperwoman which I need to know if I'm going to watch this ?


 
She unravelled.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 14, 2012)

she gets shot by a very tedious killer who turned out to be her partner, she shoots him back and she walks away as she had a vest on.


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## Reno (Nov 14, 2012)

Ta!


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 16, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/video/2012/nov/16/danish-the-killing-video

Forbrussen. The Crime.


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 16, 2012)

Handy little guide to Danish to improve your viewing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/video/2012/nov/16/danish-the-killing-video


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## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2012)

takk


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## BlueSquareThing (Nov 17, 2012)

I've watched the first part of the first DP on the DR website. Looks like it's focussing on the characters rather more again like in the first series. Politics plays a role as well which is quite possibly what was missing the most in series 2.

I don't think it's finished yet in Denmark actually, so might be best off avoiding Danish media for the next few weeks


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 17, 2012)

bumping in the hope someone bumps at 9.00pm to remind me


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## peterkro (Nov 17, 2012)

@Minnie_the_Minx


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 17, 2012)

Fuck, I can't watch it. My wife still hasn't got home from the airport yet. Have to wait till tomorrow and see it on iplayer then. No more perusing this thread for me.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 17, 2012)

peterkro said:


> @Minnie_the_Minx


 

Oh shit

Sets recorder

Thank you


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## belboid (Nov 17, 2012)

Love the way they refuse to name (most of) the parties,despite it being fairly obvious who they are. 

Loving the sub-titling distinctly less.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 17, 2012)

belboid said:


> Loving the sub-titling distinctly less.


 
What's wrong with it?  Haven't watched it yet


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## belboid (Nov 18, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What's wrong with it?  Haven't watched it yet


My Danish isn't great, but een I could tell they got bits wrong.  Apparently Zeuchen was going to be 'sidetracked' by his board (uhh, sidelined, surely) and there was a couple of other things before that,  as well as some seemingly odd choices which were probably plausible translations but didn't sound like how people sleep. (sleep??? Speak, obviously)

I'm also a little irritated that I keep recognising people (Borsch, mrs Zeuchen) but daren't look them up to see where I know them from in case I discover that they disappear from the show after three episodes.


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 18, 2012)

belboid said:


> Loving the sub-titling distinctly less.


Yes, the convention is that the subtitling is done by a native speaker of the language it's being subtitled into, and it's clearly being done by a Dane.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 18, 2012)

belboid said:


> My Danish isn't great, but een I could tell they got bits wrong. Apparently Zeuchen was going to be 'sidetracked' by his board (uhh, sidelined, surely) and there was a couple of other things before that, as well as some seemingly odd choices which were probably plausible translations but didn't sound like how people sleep. (sleep??? Speak, obviously)
> 
> I'm also a little irritated that I keep recognising people (Borsch, mrs Zeuchen) but daren't look them up to see where I know them from in case I discover that they disappear from the show after three episodes.


 
Only watched one episode and did notice that. However, my main gripe (as per the last series) is keeping all the subtitles the same colour.  Some of them are even going off the edge of my screen.  Don't remember them being that wide before


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## Orang Utan (Nov 18, 2012)

You need to adjust the aspect ratio if you can't see all the subtitles


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 19, 2012)

Even though I'm not adverse to hanging the odd lawyer, that was slightly OTT, even for the Killing.


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## belboid (Nov 19, 2012)

Could be worse. From a drop like that he should have been decapitated.


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 19, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Even though I'm not adverse to hanging the odd lawyer, that was slightly OTT, even for the Killing.


It was the 'will she get on the train in time?' bit that I found hard to watch. So the bloke on the roof with the rope round his neck was the deputy public prosecutor? I couldn't really tell.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 21, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Yes, the convention is that the subtitling is done by a native speaker of the language it's being subtitled into, and it's clearly being done by a Dane.


Yes, there were awkward direct translations that showed that.  One that I remember was that somebody said "two weeks" where a British English speaker would have said fortnight.  The security is checked ..."once a week or once in two weeks".


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## danny la rouge (Nov 21, 2012)

belboid said:


> Could be worse. From a drop like that he should have been decapitated.


I thought that.

Was he the guy with the names of the other two "shipmates", who hadn't had time to tell Lund?


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## belboid (Nov 21, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Was he the guy with the names of the other two "shipmates", who hadn't had time to tell Lund?


Is that what he had to tell.  There was something, but I thought it was more mysterious than that.  But, yes, him, anyways.


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## madamv (Nov 21, 2012)

And something to do with why he wanted to.testify to do with claiming back a debt I think....


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## belboid (Nov 21, 2012)

Some sort of compensation, wasn't it? Rather than an explicit 'debt' - never came to court (cos of that lawyer, no doubt)


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## BlueSquareThing (Nov 21, 2012)

belboid said:


> Some sort of compensation, wasn't it? Rather than an explicit 'debt' - never came to court (cos of that lawyer, no doubt)



I was reading this as some other kind of "debt" rather than necessarily a monetary one tbh. Something about the way that the GM talked about the ransom at a couple of stages. Maybe something to do with a wider debt to society perhaps? Or to do with children in some way?

I agree entirely that that drop should have ripped the lawyers head off btw. I covered my eyes expecting it to do so!


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## danny la rouge (Nov 21, 2012)

BlueSquareThing said:


> I was reading this as some other kind of "debt" rather than necessarily a monetary one tbh. Something about the way that the GM talked about the ransom at a couple of stages. Maybe something to do with a wider debt to society perhaps? Or to do with children in some way?


Exactly.  They're obviously taking the debt thing too literally for the perp.


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## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2012)

Armed police screaming "settle down"


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 24, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> You need to adjust the aspect ratio if you can't see all the subtitles


 
I know, but then I get huge black bits at the top and bottom


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## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2012)

My memory's fuzzy, but she didn't shoot because of Meyer, right?


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 24, 2012)

...and this week's subtitling howler...
he opened the door with a pick gun


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 24, 2012)

It was obvious the guy on the roof, who saw the little girl signalling, wasn't going to phone his colleagues right in front of the house to arrest the kidnapper. The series would have been over far too quickly.


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## peterkro (Nov 24, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> ...and this week's subtitling howler...
> he opened the door with a pick gun


There are actual lock picking devices known as pick guns.(they are automated lock picks)


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## bendeus (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm finding this series particularly dark and uncomfortable viewing. I think the fact that the tension is built around the life of a little girl combined with my being a parent is what is most discomfiting.

A few other random observations:

* Danish politicians appear to be a very honest, emotionally connected and ideological bunch, don't they?
* Danish murderers are very, very good at their art, and seemingly enjoy serial sprees rather than murdering one person, fucking up and getting caught 
* Most Danish homicides are linked in some way to politics - thought they may have varied the theme from previous series, TBH, or should I just be taking each series as a piece unto itself that by definition contains particular characteristics of very good serial killers, politicians and emotionally compromised plod?


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 26, 2012)

bendeus said:


> * Danish murderers are very, very good at their art, and seemingly enjoy serial sprees rather than murdering one person, fucking up and getting caught


 
Evil geniuses, the lot of them. Experts in the art of slow, lingering deaths occasionally mixing in the quick, brutal execution to keep things fresh.


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## Lord Camomile (Nov 26, 2012)

bendeus said:


> A few other random observations:
> 
> * Danish politicians appear to be a very honest, emotionally connected and ideological bunch, don't they?


I'd thought that too!

In other random observations, I was very distressed to discover that Lund is a litterbug!  When she was taking the gift round to Mark (I thought it was a box of chocolates but elsewhere I've heard reference to a pizza  ) she took the price label off and just threw it on the street!

Clearly the poor woman is broken


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## haushoch (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm not enjoying this series very much, I think it's become a cliche of itself:
1. Murders in Denmark can only take place during election campaigns.
2. Murders can also only take place in November so that Sara Lund can wear a jumper.
3. There's the political threesome, main politician, his blonde female side-kick and the slightly nerdy looking male advisor. The threesome are always trying to appeal to another party to form a coalition, this is somehow made difficult by the criminal case. The main political opponent is being contrary and difficult and has access to information the main political guy doesn't have access to.  And, of course there must be at least one scene where the main political guy must change shirts in the office in the presence of his sidekicks.
4. Someone within the government is with-holding vital information.
5. Sara Lund can never finish anything and is always called away in the middle of whatever it is she is doing, whether it's being awarded for her 25 year service, or conducting an interview with someone.
6. At some point Sara Lund goes off on her own even though she's been instructed not to do so. She ends up on her own in a dark foreboding place, encountering the murderer, but he gets away after a confrontation where she doesn't shoot at him.
7. Her personal relationships are strained. I am finding the behaviour of her family quite bizarre. Sara's son turning up at her workplace in the middle of the day in the middle of what he must know is a really important case with a missing child, and he gets pissed off that his mother answers her mobile phone while he is wingeing about his girlfriend.


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## Lord Camomile (Nov 26, 2012)

haushoch said:


> I'm not enjoying this series very much, I think it's become a cliche of itself:
> 1. Murders in Denmark can only take place during election campaigns.
> 2. Murders can also only take place in November so that Sara Lund can wear a jumper.


Not _only_, we just don't want to see the ones in that happen in summer or outside an election campaign because they're boooooooring  


haushoch said:


> 7. Her personal relationships are strained. I am finding the behaviour of her family quite bizarre. Sara's son turning up at her workplace in the middle of the day in the middle of what he must know is a really important case with a missing child, and he gets pissed off that his mother answers her mobile phone while he is wingeing about his girlfriend.


This has frustrated me from the first episode; she's solving fucking murder cases people, this shit is important


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 26, 2012)

haushoch said:


> 7. Her personal relationships are strained. I am finding the behaviour of her family quite bizarre. Sara's son turning up at her workplace in the middle of the day in the middle of what he must know is a really important case with a missing child, and he gets pissed off that his mother answers her mobile phone while he is wingeing about his girlfriend.


 
This is obviously a set-up for later on when this loathsome oik and his much nicer girlfriend are bumped off in the most unpleasant way.


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## bendeus (Nov 26, 2012)

haushoch said:


> 5. Sara Lund can never finish anything and is always called away in the middle of whatever it is she is doing, whether it's being awarded for her 25 year service, or conducting an interview with someone.
> .



This X1000. It is also always the final parting sentence uttered just as Lund is being pulled away from the current task that contains the nugget of crime solving troof


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## danny la rouge (Nov 27, 2012)

bendeus said:


> This X1000. It is also always the final parting sentence uttered just as Lund is being pulled away from the current task that contains the nugget of crime solving troof


Wait a moment while I think about that, with melancholy piano music in the background.


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 27, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Wait a moment while I think about that, with melancholy piano music in the background.


 
That music really helps her to concentrate. She should have it on her ipod.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 27, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> That music really helps her to concentrate. She should have it on her ipod.


 
You said iPod?

*Stares into middle distance with a grim expression, holding the phone lifelessly in my hand, not listening to the voice.  Hangs up, and continues to stare.*


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## bendeus (Nov 27, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> You said iPod?
> 
> *Stares into middle distance with a grim expression, holding the phone lifelessly in my hand, not listening to the voice. Hangs up, and continues to stare.*


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## belboid (Nov 27, 2012)

haushoch said:


> I'm not enjoying this series very much, I think it's become a cliche of itself:
> 1. Murders in Denmark can only take place during election campaigns.


They do have an awful lot of elections in Denmark, the overly democratic wankers. 


> 2. Murders can also only take place in November so that Sara Lund can wear a jumper.


You'll also find you can wear a jumper at absolutely any time in Denmark 


> 3. There's the political threesome, main politician, his blonde female side-kick and the slightly nerdy looking male advisor. The threesome are always trying to appeal to another party to form a coalition, this is somehow made difficult by the criminal case. The main political opponent is being contrary and difficult and has access to information the main political guy doesn't have access to.  And, of course there must be at least one scene where the main political guy must change shirts in the office in the presence of his sidekicks.
> 4. Someone within the government is with-holding vital information.


Standard mystery fare, in a political setting


> 5. Sara Lund can never finish anything and is always called away in the middle of whatever it is she is doing, whether it's being awarded for her 25 year service, or conducting an interview with someone.


This is one of the reasons it is still good. There is always someone who plays that role, that it's the lead detective, who often does so all of her own volition, is unusual n interesting. 


> 6. At some point Sara Lund goes off on her own even though she's been instructed not to do so. She ends up on her own in a dark foreboding place, encountering the murderer, but he gets away after a confrontation where she doesn't shoot at him.
> 7. Her personal relationships are strained. I am finding the behaviour of her family quite bizarre. Sara's son turning up at her workplace in the middle of the day in the middle of what he must know is a really important case with a missing child, and he gets pissed off that his mother answers her mobile phone while he is wingeing about his girlfriend.


See 3/4


They do seem to have simply gone for repeating the political mix of the first series as if that was what was particularly interesting. It added something, but - especially post Borgen n the Bridge - isn't really that exciting. They do seem to have nicked big plot chunks from the Bridge as well, of course. 

What was really interesting in F1 was how it concentrated on the grief of the family and their reactions. That was the unique thing about it, not the actual mystery. They do that to an extent  in this series, but it's hard to give a shit about the rich toffs


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## bendeus (Nov 28, 2012)

8) When trapped in the dark and foreboding place with the almost superhuman serial killer, and while surrounded by bodies under very moody lighting one must under no circumstances turn any lights on, and if any interesting-looking clues show up it is always best to turn your back on the darkened room in order to study them.

The son is fucking pathetic. She should give the killer his address.

@Belboid - agree, the narrative relating to the personal tragedy and disintegration of the relationship between the parents was as much a part of the drama as the crime solving


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## bendeus (Nov 28, 2012)

belboid said:


> They do seem to have simply gone for repeating the political mix of the first series



And the second, no?


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## belboid (Nov 28, 2012)

bendeus said:


> And the second, no?


not to anything like the same extent. Tho _governmental_ would probably have been a better choice of word.

40% of the way thru, we must have seen, or at least been told about, who the killer really is by now. I think my moneys on the thing under son's girlfriends jumper. There's no way thats actually a baby.


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 28, 2012)

belboid said:


> 40% of the way thru, we must have seen, or at least been told about, who the killer really is by now. I think my moneys on the thing under son's girlfriends jumper. There's no way thats actually a baby.


 
That could be the killer's wife's severed head, in true Seven style.


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## haushoch (Nov 28, 2012)

belboid said:


> They do seem to have simply gone for repeating the political mix of the first series as if that was what was particularly interesting. It added something, but - especially post Borgen n the Bridge - isn't really that exciting. They do seem to have nicked big plot chunks from the Bridge as well, of course.
> 
> What was really interesting in F1 was how it concentrated on the grief of the family and their reactions. That was the unique thing about it, not the actual mystery. They do that to an extent in this series, but it's hard to give a shit about the rich toffs


 
That's exactly it for me, I was gripped and moved by the first series. Pernille especially was an amazing character and I actually welled up a bit during some of her scenes, because she made the loss and grief so believable. I already found the second series a bit dull, and this one bores me even more. I just can't bring myself to care that much about any of the characters.  Though I quite like the cleverness of the kidnapped girl.

The whole multiple killings thing is also getting a bit boring. Calculated cruel killings, each death more gruesome than the one before. Yawn.

The single killing in series one (her partner only being shot so that the killer could protect his identity) also made the whole thing more believable. The case somehow felt true. 

Actually, another thing that gets me - so Sara Lund has a track record of solving complicated cases, why do her colleagues always treat her as if she's mad and ridiculous when she wants to pursue a particular line of inquiry?  They get her on board, because she's supposed to be great, but then they don't allow her to get on with it.  Stupid gits.


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## BlueSquareThing (Nov 28, 2012)

haushoch said:


> The single killing in series one (her partner only being shot so that the killer could protect his identity) also made the whole thing more believable. The case somehow felt true.


 
Didn't one of Vagn's removal mates get bumped off at some point in the odd section between episodes 12 and 18 as well? Or am I remembering this wrong?

Even if that's so (which I doubt frankly) then I tend to agree that it was stronger from that pov for sure. The days seemed a bit more delimited in it as well perhaps.


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## haushoch (Nov 28, 2012)

Actually I am just remembering another death in series 1, one of the guys out of the political circle got done in by a hit and run.  So, forget what I said earlier.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2012)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Didn't one of Vagn's removal mates get bumped off at some point in the odd section between episodes 12 and 18 as well? Or am I remembering this wrong?
> 
> Even if that's so (which I doubt frankly) then I tend to agree that it was stronger from that pov for sure. The days seemed a bit more delimited in it as well perhaps.


episodes 12 and 18? there were iirc 10 episodes.

 iirc wrong


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## DieselBar (Dec 4, 2012)

Been watching this from Danish tv rips but no one has subtitled the last two episodes, been weeks!

Anyone seen it? I'm have withdrawal symptoms a series of the bridge didn't help


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## Orang Utan (Dec 4, 2012)

It's on the telly!


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## DieselBar (Dec 4, 2012)

Yeh but I've stuck on episode 9 for last 2 weeks! May well have to wait


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## Orang Utan (Dec 4, 2012)

Have you tried EZTV or Isohunt?


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## belboid (Dec 7, 2012)

Finally caught up with episode six last night. There were definitely sharks in the water below that bridge, weren't there?


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 8, 2012)

Another good ending. Love the way all these twists and turns are woven in. Should have guessed the old fella had something to do with it. Or did he?


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## BlueSquareThing (Dec 9, 2012)

Enjoyed those - lots of red herrings but not silly ones.


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## bendeus (Dec 9, 2012)

It's moving into X-Men territory now though, innit? Badly wounded? Check. Break into the equivalent of Westminster? Check. Break in and successfully hack the computers of the equivalent of Geest while everyone's at work? Check. Denmark: rammed with ninjas.


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## BlueSquareThing (Dec 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> It's moving into X-Men territory now though, innit? Badly wounded? Check. Break into the equivalent of Westminster? Check. Break in and successfully hack the computers of the equivalent of Geest while everyone's at work? Check. Denmark: rammed with ninjas.


All whilst bleeding.

That and the lack of lighting  But then the music kicks in and I can live with it.


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## maldwyn (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm still recovering from the painting being wrecked in last week's episode.


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## bendeus (Dec 9, 2012)

BlueSquareThing said:


> All whilst bleeding.
> 
> That and the lack of lighting  But then the music kicks in and I can live with it.



Yeah. I can still continue to forgive it its faults, but the scales have fallen from my eyes, and the faults are manifold.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Denmark: rammed with ninjas.


_Swedish_ ninjas.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 13, 2012)

Belboid's absolutely right that the Birk Larsens were far more interesting than the Zeuthens. But there's much more to miss from season one than that. What I liked about the explicitly Faustian Forbydelsen I was the way that every character except for jumperbint, over the course of the series, became compromised in some way: making some sort of pact with power that diminished them as a person. It represented a coherent and bleak view of the world and was reminiscent of the Wire.

Subsequent seasons kept the political shenanigans and skullduggery, upping the body count, but - moody lighting aside - in a pretty unremarkable style. There's no metanarrative now, just a police procedural on rails. It could be a few of the duller hours in the life of Jack Bauer, stretched out over a dull week in Jutland.

And without anything that really satisfies, it's less easy to ignore the oddities of the subtitling and the lazy technique, such as overuse of news reportage to fill expositionary holes.

Still want to see what happens at the weekend though. I reckon the faithful retainer was a mere pander to the bestially murderous Mrs Zeuthen.


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## gosub (Dec 14, 2012)

Feels like they watched the bridge and thought need that kind of villan.  Wife ruined the ending for me with 3 episodes to go, (i think) mind you thats pay back for me getting the killer in series 1 after two episodes


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2012)

I think he's got Eva. The note on the fridge...well, Lund doesn't know her writing...it's been niggling at me all week.


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## ChrisD (Dec 14, 2012)

I agree that it's nowhere near as good at the first series...  I'm still watching as don't really understand the role of the "faithful retainer" who at first I thought was just his driver.
Unremarkable interview on Radio 4 at 8.25 with the Danish Ambassador.  Seems that Borgen is coming back for another series on Jan 5th. So there's more excuses not to go out on Saturday nights..


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2012)

ChrisD said:


> I agree that it's nowhere near as good at the first series... I'm still watching as don't really understand the role of the "faithful retainer" who at first I thought was just his driver.


Isn't he head of security?


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## danny la rouge (Dec 14, 2012)

ChrisD said:


> I agree that it's nowhere near as good at the first series... I'm still watching as don't really understand the role of the "faithful retainer" who at first I thought was just his driver.
> Unremarkable interview on Radio 4 at 8.25 with the Danish Ambassador. Seems that Borgen is coming back for another series on Jan 5th. So there's more excuses not to go out on Saturday nights..


I think they didn't understand what was good about FI; they thought it was the daft, convoluted crime plot, but it wasn't.  It was always the understated study of human interactions in bad situations.

That said, it's still a diverting watch.  And I'm looking forward to Borgen II.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 14, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Isn't he head of security?


 
I thought of him more as a gentleman's gentleman.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 14, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> I thought of him more as a gentleman's gentleman.


You think he's gay?


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2012)

I'm sure that's who he was said to be when the child first disappeared. Of course, I could well have been labouring under a delusion. I often do.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> You think he's gay?


 
No, I meant like Jeeves. Was Jeeves gay?


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## danny la rouge (Dec 14, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> No, I meant like Jeeves. Was Jeeves gay?


A butler?  I don't know if Jeeves was gay or not.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> A butler? I don't know if Jeeves was gay or not.


 
Jeeves was more than just a butler.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 14, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Jeeves was more than just a butler.


Lover?


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Lover?


 
Have you read any PG Wodehouse?


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## danny la rouge (Dec 14, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Have you read any PG Wodehouse?


Yes.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes.


 
Are you perhaps confusing Jeeves with Stephen Fry?


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## ChrisD (Dec 15, 2012)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...al-about-leaving-Sarah-Lund-shes-fiction.html

10 minute call for final showing.....


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## ChrisD (Dec 15, 2012)

So...the only good guys were the father of the kidnapped girl and the anarcist son of the pm .   Good final episode imo


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## DJ Squelch (Dec 15, 2012)

Great ending. I think that might actually be my favourite of the three series


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 15, 2012)

ChrisD said:


> So...the only good guys were the father of the kidnapped girl and the anarcist son of the pm .


 
What? The father accepted that the murderer was best left unpunished, just like the PM.


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## haushoch (Dec 15, 2012)

I thought the ending was completely and utterly rubbish and I didn't think very highly of the whole series either.  But the ending, honestly.  Really?????  Sara Lund is happy to execute the guilty bloke with a good old shot to the head, which proves that she is deranged after all, and has no regard for her family and then she flies off into the night while her ex-boyfriend is covering for her.  I've been robbed.  They stole 10 hours of my life.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 15, 2012)

haushoch said:


> Sara Lund is happy to execute the guilty bloke with a good old shot to the head, which proves that she is deranged after all, and has no regard for her family .


 
She shot Reinhardt partly (and yes, of course she had a certain sense of moral outrage) because the alternative would have been a lifetime of cosy domesticity - four generations of Lunds, and Burch, in her shed - and that would have been too scary to contemplate.


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## ChrisD (Dec 15, 2012)

....yes you're right.  So the only character coming out well is the anarcist son of pm.  
  I thought it was a good analysis of the corruption of wealth and power delivered in a nail biting plot.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 16, 2012)

Emilie's hair and face were remarkably clean and shining for a child who's been kidnapped and locked alone in a ship due for scrap don't you think?


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 16, 2012)

....but I thought Lund shooting Reinhardt was well in character....bit deranged, damaged but with a thirst for Justice...and he would have gone on to murder again.


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## haushoch (Dec 16, 2012)

I thought it would have been more in character if she had continued the investigation.  So they now have a witness who states that Reinhardt always stays in the same room, which wasn't the room he was supposedly staying in while the other girl was murdered.  They know that the hotel belongs to the Zeeland Group, which must compromise the data previously provided.  They also have Reinhard's watch still that could be checked.  Lund has always been clever about getting to the bottom of things and carrying on even when the investigation is closed.  It could be argued that she wanted to prevent Reinhardt from killing again.  But I still don't buy it.  It was just your typical American action adventure ending.  The death penalty.  Can't let the bad guys get away.

I never thought she was deranged before, I always thought she was just extremely driven and logical.  I find it quite sad that she suddenly does such a mad thing.

Next: The Killing - The Action Adventure Film, in a cinema near you soon: Lund, on a massive motorbike, riding through snowy grey landscapes, looking for proof that Reinhardt was an evil and twisted serial killer of orphaned girls, while Brix and the entire Danish police force are hot on her heels, while back in Copenhagen corrupt politicians are walking through long corridors and up and down staircases.


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## shygirl (Dec 16, 2012)

I was gutted by the ending, not least because it undermines all that went on before and essentially concludes that she was unhinged after all.  That diminishes the idea that here we had an officer who was willing to do almost anything to get to the truth, irrespective of politics and power, and come out of it vindicated.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 16, 2012)

Denmark, though. Where anarchists have absolutely no interest in why the prime minister has wandered into their lair, and courteously ignore him. Where the electorate care about a kidnapped child to the exclusion of all other political concerns. Where politicians consult "their group" at every turn, and where a near fistfight between the premier and his brother passes absolutely unnoticed at an election victory party.

i want to visit it. Noo. Tak.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 16, 2012)

Does leave open the possibility of Killing 4 if everyone changes their mind, I suppose.


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## BlueSquareThing (Dec 16, 2012)

ChrisD said:


> ....yes you're right.  So the only character coming out well is the anarcist son of pm.
> I thought it was a good analysis of the corruption of wealth and power delivered in a nail biting plot.



I liked the power corruption part of the ending - not entirely sure about Lund going all judge and jury.

Seemed to me that the women generally came off OK didn't they? Maja, Karen, maybe Eva and even Lund's mum.


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## madamv (Dec 16, 2012)

According to Emma Kennedy there is a piece in tomorrows guardian to change our minds


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## haushoch (Dec 17, 2012)

madamv said:


> According to Emma Kennedy there is a piece in tomorrows guardian to change our minds


 
And here it is: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/dec/17/killing-perfect-ending?INTCMP=SRCH


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## belboid (Dec 17, 2012)

I mostly enjoyed the last episode. Her decision did kinda make sense, she knew there was no way she’d be allowed to investigate anything, that Rheinhart would get away with it again and again. And she had _made a promise_ that that wouldn’t happen, so it couldn’t be allowed to.

Arguably, it would have been politically better if the Zeeland lawyer had been right, and there was no cover up, just fuck ups due to cuts and a ‘random’ and ‘unimportant’ bloke we’d never seen as the killer. But, if we cant have that, massive political and economic corruption isn’t a bad alternative.

What didn’t really work was the climax to the daft story about the PM’s son. Even in Denmark I find it hard to believe Special Branch are that easily ordered around and willingly corruptible. Still less do I believe that that lefty woman would just happen to have had three keys on her for years and never bothered finding out what they opened. Or that that lock up would have been untouched in all that time. Or that it would have been possible for the kid to have taken that photo without being bloody obvious and spotted by Rheinhart.

I’m highly dubious about her flying off to Rekjavik too, just don’t see it.


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## haushoch (Dec 17, 2012)

I think I would have preferred it if the writers had let Reinhardt get away.  A lot of people are shown as utterly corrupt in the end, so Reinhardt getting away would have fitted in quite nicely with that.  A dark ending, but somehow more realistic in my view than Lund blowing his brains out.

Or to make it a little brighter, Lund could have just told Reinhardt that she was not going to let him do it again, that she would watch him like a hawk and that she would get to the bottom of it all.  That for me would have been more in line with the way her character was portrayed previously.

And re Lund settling down: over the three series she is shown as wanting to settle down all the time, and being prevented from doing so by a case getting in the way, so she does her job when the job demands it, and she gives it 100%.  At the beginning of this series she was going to join OPA, she had bought a shed house, was planting stuff in her garden, and was trying to mend things with her family, etc.


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## madamv (Dec 17, 2012)

Great interview.  Wish the end had been different but that's the writers prerogative isn't it.


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## belboid (Dec 17, 2012)

haushoch said:


> that she would watch him like a hawk and that she would get to the bottom of it all.


there was no way she'd be allowed to do so. Being made to fuck off to an e-crime unit (presuming that wasn't another subbing fuck up), the top cops were just happy not to be in the politico's firing line, Special Branch needing to keep their activities covered up....nothing would ever ever see the light of day from any investigation. There was only one way to stop him doing it again, and again....


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## madamv (Dec 17, 2012)

Yeah, I agree.   I just wish they had found a way to make it look like he committed suicide or something....  Or dumped him in the sea after mincing him up.  

Whens Dexter back on?


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## haushoch (Dec 17, 2012)

belboid said:


> there was no way she'd be allowed to do so. Being made to fuck off to an e-crime unit (presuming that wasn't another subbing fuck up), the top cops were just happy not to be in the politico's firing line, Special Branch needing to keep their activities covered up....nothing would ever ever see the light of day from any investigation. There was only one way to stop him doing it again, and again....


 
Yeah, but there were plenty of times before when she wasn't allowed to do something and she did it anyway.


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## haushoch (Dec 17, 2012)

And now, like Emma Kennedy says, must remember that The Killing isn't real and must get up and go and get a life.


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## murdok (Dec 17, 2012)

I didn't realise that the third season only ran into 10 eps.  Just finished watching the last one now.  I feel completely robbed 
Mind you, I did get the same thing at the end of the BBC series 'Survivors' and I managed to get over that pish ending eventually.  Come to think of it, the Sopranos wasn't much better at ending either... I think I see a pattern emerging here


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 17, 2012)

murdok said:


> the Sopranos wasn't much better at ending either...


 
Made in America is one of the best episodes of one of the best seasons.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 17, 2012)

murdok said:


> I didn't realise that the third season only ran into 10 eps. Just finished watching the last one now. I feel completely robbed
> Mind you, I did get the same thing at the end of the BBC series 'Survivors' and I managed to get over that pish ending eventually. Come to think of it, the Sopranos wasn't much better at ending either... I think I see a pattern emerging here


The Sopranos ending was excellent.  What was wrong with it?

But that was just shit.  Utter crap.  Lazy, stupid shit.  And you're right, exactly the same as the travesty what was Survivors Remake.   The Killing I was excellent, but by the end of the Killing III, it had turned into the Bourne Bollocks.


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## Reno (Dec 18, 2012)

murdok said:


> I didn't realise that the third season only ran into 10 eps. Just finished watching the last one now. I feel completely robbed
> Mind you, I did get the same thing at the end of the BBC series 'Survivors' and I managed to get over that pish ending eventually. Come to think of it, the Sopranos wasn't much better at ending either... I think I see a pattern emerging here


 
What's the pattern among these three completely different series. The Sopranos ending was brilliant, really audacious for a TV series.

I'm glad that they dropped the 20 episode run of The Killing. Half way through the first season it got really silly with the endless red herrings and the characters acted in ways that were less and less believable. I find The Killing watchable, but not in the top tier of TV series and coming to this with lowered expectations (I missed season 2) I enjoyed this one a lot more than season 1. Just finished it and not sure about the ending, but then the ending to season 1 wasn't that great either. It's great a looking and well acted series, but it's really not to be taken seriously.


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## peterkro (Dec 18, 2012)

I read a lot of Scandi/Icelandic crime fiction and see myself (probably wrongly) as a very moral person and think the end of the Killing three as being completely in character for Lund.In that situation I'd go with the gut feeling and worry about the fallout later.It's a story of personal morality and how far you'd go for your own personal rules. Personally after Rienhards  confession I'd scatter his brains and then leave for the life on the road.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 18, 2012)

Reno said:


> What's the pattern among these three completely different series. The Sopranos ending was brilliant, really audacious for a TV series.


I agree with that.

My take on the Killing is that it gradually changed its balance from being something I am interested in - a character-driven, understated, acutely observed, interpersonal drama, to being something I'm not interested in - a ludicrously-plotted, improbable, action movie.   Both those elements were there in the first series, but the balance was enough in favour of the former (especially with Pernille, but also with Lund's relationship with Jan Meyer) that I could overlook the latter (for example, as you correctly say, the endless red herring reversals).  Series 2 took the improbability to new levels with the bullet-proof vest ending.  However, by the end of series 3, the character stuff was being discarded like a sinking balloon frantically jettisoning ballast.  The cloak-and-dagger flight to Iceland and a life on the lam under a false identity, striving to prove the former crimes of a man she has just killed, aided from afar by a special branch boyfriend, is just not the Lund I'd be interested in had I been told that was a possibility from the start.  I ought to have known better, since the ludicrousness was always lurking, but I just had hoped for something more intelligent than this turned out to be.


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## Reno (Dec 18, 2012)

In Germany as in Scandinavia the whodunit is a hugely popular genre, but it's essentially ludicrous and as thrillers go, it's far from my favourite type. Having grown up on the likes of Tatort, Germanys longest running TV series and one that is a whodunit, The Killing is probably less original to me than for many people here. I don't ever come to this type of thing with expectations of taking it seriously. Inevitably its always kept afloat by red herrings and it all depends on the surprise of the reveal where the audience can guess along. These things tend to be plot rather than character driven and even in The Killing season one the characters were primarily in the service of an ever more convoluted plot. After a while I simply didn't believe that the parents would act the way they did so soon after their daughter's murder.

I tend to prefer thriller that don't play cat and mouse games with the murderer, which place more importance on the motive, reasons and possibly psychology of the perpetrator than it all coming down to a shock reveal of "the butler did it". By dealing with a kidnapping and a cold case murder and interweaving both, The Killing III was at least a little more complex in terms of its plotting than the first one. The characterisation was always just propped up by good acting rather than great writing.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 18, 2012)

Reno said:


> In Germany as in Scandinavia the whodunit is a hugely popular genre, but it's essentially ludicrous and as thrillers go, it's far from my favourite type. Having grown up on the likes of Tatort, Germanys longest running TV series and one that is a whodunit, The Killing is probably less original to me than for many people here.


 
Schimanski war wirklich gut. Und sein sidekick.


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## belboid (Dec 18, 2012)

What was the 'unforgivable thing' the PMs son was meant to have done?  There was never owt that bad, was there?


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## danny la rouge (Dec 18, 2012)

Reno said:


> The characterisation was always just propped up by good acting rather than great writing.


Yes, that became abundantly clear as the series progressed.  

Don't get wrong: I'm a fan of good Scandinavian crime fiction.  I love the Martin Beck series.  But it has something more to say than the crime plots, which are just the vehicle for more interesting observations about society.  The Per Wahloo solo books, especially, have ludicrous crime plots, but that isn't their point.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 18, 2012)

belboid said:


> What was the 'unforgivable thing' the PMs son was meant to have done? There was never owt that bad, was there?


No.  There was lots of bollocks like that.  Like, why was the girl not found on the ship? She was behind a door they hadn't checked before, and this time there wasn't even a painting leaning against the door.


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## magneze (Dec 18, 2012)

Just finished it. Nice dark ending. Lund killing Rhinehart basically means that her character can never come back. Well, she can, but it would be totally ludicrous. I agree that it's not really her style, but it gave a definite end to the trilogy but without a happy clappy ending. That latter would have been more unsatisfying IMO.

Emilie being in an obvious locked room in the ship that had been "searched" was even more silly than the Homeland one from Sunday where a terrorist hid behind a piece of fence in a "searched" tunnel.


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## magneze (Dec 18, 2012)

The other way they could have ended it would have been killing her of course. About halfway through the episode I was convinced this would happen as her family life was becoming sorted out. Possibly by Borch turning out to be the Special Branch stooge we'd suspected and having to silence her.

Of course, this would have effectively martyred her in her family and our own eyes. Whereas the real ending left her still as a deeply flawed individual who has now just fucked up the one thing she was good at and not at the expense of happiness with her family or anything like that.

Bleak.


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## Reno (Dec 18, 2012)

Under the circumstances my ending would have been for Lund to get arrested, instead of having a bloke tell her to run off with him.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 18, 2012)

Reno said:


> Under the circumstances my ending would have been for Lund to get arrested, instead of having a bloke tell her to run off with him.


That would have been an improvement, and is what I thought was about to happen.  The Flight To Reykjavik was just an improbability too far.


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## bendeus (Dec 19, 2012)

haushoch said:


> I thought the ending was completely and utterly rubbish and I didn't think very highly of the whole series either.  But the ending, honestly.  Really?????  Sara Lund is happy to execute the guilty bloke with a good old shot to the head, which proves that she is deranged after all, and has no regard for her family and then she flies off into the night while her ex-boyfriend is covering for her.  I've been robbed.  They stole 10 hours of my life.



This X100. Fucking farcical.


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## bendeus (Dec 19, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Denmark, though. Where anarchists have absolutely no interest in why the prime minister has wandered into their lair, and courteously ignore him. Where the electorate care about a kidnapped child to the exclusion of all other political concerns. Where politicians consult "their group" at every turn, and where a near fistfight between the premier and his brother passes absolutely unnoticed at an election victory party.
> 
> i want to visit it. Noo. Tak.



All of the above. This series was, in hindsight, a fucking joke. As Haushoch says, though, it does leave open for the possibility of Lund in, say, Brazil, sweating profusely in her wooly, roll-neck jumper, blinking furiously in the midday sun amidst the bikini-clad residents of Copacabana, en route to an orphanage that Reinhardt frequently visited in the favelas.

That's about the level the last episode stooped to, TBH.


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## madamv (Dec 19, 2012)

Borcsh was a crap actor too....


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## belboid (Dec 19, 2012)

bendeus said:


> This series was, in hindsight, a fucking joke.


No it wasn't.  It had a very poor, very final, scene, and one plot line too many. Otherwise it was still pretty decent.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 19, 2012)

Apparently the original plotline had Lund being offed.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 19, 2012)

Which would have been quite upsetting and ruined a perfectly good jumper.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 19, 2012)

...although her jumpers do seem to be self healing. Remember the time she got a slashed arm in (iirc) Series 1? Either she's really good at superbly swift invisible mending (which I somehow doubt) or it's a self-healing jumper.


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## belboid (Dec 19, 2012)

or she had two of them...


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 19, 2012)

Even I don't keep a spare identical jumper in my bag in case I'm slashed by a knife-wielding maniac.


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## belboid (Dec 19, 2012)

You're not in windy Kobenhavn tho!


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## bendeus (Dec 19, 2012)

belboid said:


> No it wasn't.  It had a very poor, very final, scene, and one plot line too many. Otherwise it was still pretty decent.



Fair enough. I guess it was good enough to keep me gripped up to the finale


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## magneze (Dec 19, 2012)

Never mind eh. Borgen's on soon. Maybe that'll tone down the politics and turn up the murders.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 19, 2012)

Give me the skinny on Borgen. Didn't see the first series as it looked a bit like the dull bits of The Killing


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## magneze (Dec 19, 2012)

It's totally different really. No murder. All political intruigue. In a different country. It's not as intense - don't think it could take two hour long episodes every week. That ability really marked out the Killing as something special.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 19, 2012)

No murder, all politics? No thanks


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## BlueSquareThing (Dec 19, 2012)

magneze said:


> It's totally different really. No murder. All political intruigue. In a different country. It's not as intense - don't think it could take two hour long episodes every week. That ability really marked out the Killing as something special.


 
I thought they showed them as 2 episodes each week? I'm certain they did actually (stamps foot).

I liked Borgen - a bit simpler and generally episodes are more self contained with everything being resolved each week more or less (interesting issue comes up - Birgitte solves it by becoming slightly more power corrupted (sideplot: spin doctor and news anchor have a relationship degeneration) - everything ends more or less well). Pretty good stuff though and interesting enough - the end of the first series and the way Kasper's life suddenly got revealed was well done certainly.

Probably slightly more interesting when you look at the longer story arcs in the first series.


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## magneze (Dec 19, 2012)

Maybe you're right. Can't remember.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 20, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> No murder, all politics? No thanks


There was a death and a cover-up, though.  And crime.  Plenty of crime.


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## magneze (Dec 20, 2012)

I can't remember much of it at all. Was there a flat with lots of blood in it? Or am I thinking of another series?


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## danny la rouge (Dec 20, 2012)

magneze said:


> I can't remember much of it at all. Was there a flat with lots of blood in it? Or am I thinking of another series?


That was Killing I.


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## belboid (Dec 20, 2012)

Borgen was fairly rubbish, in fact.  After the initial couple of interesting episodes about setting up a wildly disparate coalition, everyone rapidly set into their stereotypical ways, and each episode was a rubbishy West Wing slice of fluffy liberalism.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 20, 2012)

A Danish friend really recommended Borgen but I just couldn't be doing with it. I dutifully sat through an episode but felt I really didn't give a toss about any of the characters or their doings.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 20, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> A Danish friend really recommended Borgen but I just couldn't be doing with it. I dutifully sat through an episode but felt I really didn't give a toss about any of the characters or their doings.


 
Although, it was good to see all Sarah Lund's ex-colleagues back on screen.


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## BlueSquareThing (Dec 20, 2012)

belboid said:


> Borgen was fairly rubbish, in fact.  After the initial couple of interesting episodes about setting up a wildly disparate coalition, everyone rapidly set into their stereotypical ways, and each episode was a rubbishy West Wing slice of fluffy liberalism.


To an extent I agree, but the whole arc about the corrupting influence of power on Birgitte makes it better than that as a whole I think.

And the Kasper reveal has me waiting for the second series.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 20, 2012)

BlueSquareThing said:


> To an extent I agree, but the whole arc about the corrupting influence of power on Birgitte makes it better than that as a whole I think.
> 
> And the Kasper reveal has me waiting for the second series.


I'll be watching.  It's not top class TV, but it's watchable and I enjoyed it.  I also like Morse.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 20, 2012)

BlueSquareThing said:


> To an extent I agree, but the whole arc about the corrupting influence of power on Birgitte makes it better than that as a whole I think.
> 
> And the Kasper reveal has me waiting for the second series.


 
I'd forgotten all about him. And his on-off love. Will fill a Lund-like gap in Saturday evening viewing.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 20, 2012)

magneze said:


> It's totally different really. No murder. All political intruigue. In a different country. It's not as intense - don't think it could take two hour long episodes every week. That ability really marked out the Killing as something special.


 

Different country? Are there two Denmarks?


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## magneze (Dec 20, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Different country? Are there two Denmarks?


For some reason I had it in my head that The Killing was in Sweden.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 21, 2012)

magneze said:


> For some reason I had it in my head that The Killing was in Sweden.


No, the Swedish accent is more sing-songy.  It's lilts com-_pyooooo_-der (Swedish for computer).  Whereas the Danes just say compuder (Danish for computer).

hth


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 21, 2012)

magneze said:


> For some reason I had it in my head that The Killing was in Sweden.


Are you thinking of The Bridge? That was a Danish/Swedish production.


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## BlueSquareThing (Dec 21, 2012)

Part of the second series was in Sweden for a bit iirc. You can tell by the accents, the road signs (more yellow and red) and the police uniforms change. More forest as well I think.


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