# Brixton news, rumours and general chat:  Summer - Autumn 2018



## editor (Jun 21, 2018)

[Pic: urban picnic, July 2012]

Instead of having the usual monthly Brixton news threads, I thought I'd see how it works with just four every year. 

Although we've often spun interesting topics out of the monthly thread into their own threads, as Mr Retro pointed out, sometimes discussions can be disrupted if they start up at the end of the month. 

So I'm going to try for a seasonal approach and see how that pans out. 

I think I'm on safe ground opening the summer one today, but Autumn may prove troublesome: Question of the day: exactly when does Autumn start in the UK?

Note: The June 2018 Brixton thread has now been closed.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2018)

editor said:


> [Pic: urban picnic, July 2012]
> 
> Instead of having the usual monthly Brixton news threads, I thought I'd see how it works with just four every year.
> 
> ...


go for the vernal equinox


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## teuchter (Jun 21, 2018)

Annual threads would do the job - the traffic is so low these days that they wouldn't become unwieldy.


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## Mr Retro (Jun 21, 2018)

Perhaps towards the end of the summer we can have that discussion about weather the thread stays open until the end of the year.

Thank you editor i think this is a great move


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## bimble (Jun 21, 2018)

Good idea.


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## RoyReed (Jun 21, 2018)

editor said:


> I think I'm on safe ground opening the summer one today, but Autumn may prove troublesome: Question of the day: exactly when does Autumn start in the UK?


Spring: March, April, May
Summer: June, July, August
Autumn: September, October, November
Winter: December, January, February


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## Winot (Jun 21, 2018)

I think we should have different threads for news from SW2 and SW9


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## editor (Jun 21, 2018)

RoyReed said:


> Spring: March, April, May
> Summer: June, July, August
> Autumn: September, October, November
> Winter: December, January, February


Ah yes, but what dates?  Summer starts on the 21st June, for example.


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## friendofdorothy (Jun 21, 2018)

editor said:


> Ah yes, but what dates?  Summer starts on the 21st June, for example.


solitices and equinox then? nicely in keeping with the pagan calendar.


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## alcopop (Jun 21, 2018)

When does autumn start?


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## editor (Jun 21, 2018)

alcopop said:


> When does autumn start?


That doesn't offer a single date either. Just like the link I posted up at the start of this thread.


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## editor (Jun 21, 2018)

Pics from last night's fab sesh at Club 414 
















In photos: Brixton late night jam session at 414 Club, Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


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## teuchter (Jun 21, 2018)

An annual thread based on the tax year would minimise the paperwork concerned for everyone.


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## alcopop (Jun 21, 2018)

H


editor said:


> That doesn't offer a single date either. Just like the link I posted up at the start of this thread.


if you are taking 21st June as a given for summer then just add on 3 months


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## RoyReed (Jun 21, 2018)

editor said:


> Ah yes, but what dates?  Summer starts on the 21st June, for example.


For meteorological purposes it would be on the 1st of the month according to the Met Office: When does spring start?


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## editor (Jun 21, 2018)

RoyReed said:


> For meteorological purposes it would be on the 1st of the month according to the Met Office: When does spring start?


But the 1st June doesn't feel that _summery_ to me. But anyway. I've made an executive decision on this, but I'm happy to hear the debate for the other seasons!


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## Rushy (Jun 21, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Perhaps towards the end of the summer we can have that discussion about weather the thread stays open until the end of the year.
> 
> Thank you editor i think this is a great move


In recognition it should be named Mr Retro's Summer 2018 Chat.


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## Winot (Jun 21, 2018)

teuchter said:


> An annual thread based on the tax year would minimise the paperwork concerned for everyone.



With an option to change any of your posts in the previous six years.


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## ricbake (Jun 21, 2018)

Soon to have the opportunity to make out of hours posts
on Ferndale Road 
Does it really need to take a year to plant a postbox?


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## Gramsci (Jun 21, 2018)

So June is locked? I would have liked a warning on that. I hadn't finished on that thread.


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## Gramsci (Jun 21, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Soon to have the opportunity to make out of hours posts
> on Ferndale Road
> Does it really need to take a year to plant a postbox?



In the semi privatised Post Office it does. 

Post Office and post boxes are now in separate sections of mail delivery. 

Its not the post office counter service responsibility to have post boxes.

When they moved they didn't tell the post box side of mail they were losing the post boxes.

The post box side of mail prefer the ones on the pavement. 

I have not seen it yet. 

I think its old style cast iron?


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## editor (Jun 21, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> So June is locked? I would have liked a warning on that. I hadn't finished on that thread.


I could import the posts into here or spin them off into a new thread if you want - just give me the post numbers.


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## ricbake (Jun 21, 2018)

This post box has been renovated and now put in Brighton Terrace 

Brixton news, rumours and general chat - February 2017


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## CH1 (Jun 21, 2018)

Gramsci if you look at that pillar box above, does it not look like cast iron to you?
I think the Chairman may have it wrong on this one - even the David Mellor website (they designed the 1966 Anthony Wedgewood Benn square pillar box) says it's cast iron. I think there may be a factoid here! David Mellor Key Designs  - David Mellor Design


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## SpamMisery (Jun 21, 2018)

What a hideous looking postbox


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## ricbake (Jun 21, 2018)

The Brighton Terrace ex Electric Ave pillar box appears to be a Cast Iron 1974 model made by Carron Co of Falkirk - 2 door model!

Cast iron radiators and Architectural Antiques for your home


"This was made in 1974 to replace the defective sheet steel ones"


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## CH1 (Jun 21, 2018)

ricbake said:


> The Brighton Terrace ex Electric Ave pillar box appears to be a Cast Iron 1974 model made by Carron Co of Falkirk - 2 door model!
> Cast iron radiators and Architectural Antiques for your home
> "This was made in 1974 to replace the defective sheet steel ones"


What sort of person would buy that for £6,250.00 ?
Maybe at that price it may meet the same fate as the Barbara Hepworth sculpture stole from Dulwich Park.
Easier to nick I should think (just giving my unpracticed opinion!)


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## CH1 (Jun 21, 2018)

ricbake said:


> The Brighton Terrace ex Electric Ave pillar box appears to be a Cast Iron 1974 model made by Carron Co of Falkirk - 2 door model!
> Cast iron radiators and Architectural Antiques for your home
> "This was made in 1974 to replace the defective sheet steel ones"


BTW are you the person who sets the questions on Have I got News for You (from such publications as Pillar Box Collector's Gazette)?


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## CH1 (Jun 21, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> What a hideous looking postbox


Could be useful in locker rooms though.


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## ricbake (Jun 22, 2018)

CH1 said:


> BTW are you the person who sets the questions on Have I got News for You (from such publications as Pillar Box Collector's Gazette)?



No - but I was thinking that perhaps someone had created a postbox catalogue. Must be one out there somewhere!


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## teuchter (Jun 22, 2018)

ricbake said:


> No - but I was thinking that perhaps someone had created a postbox catalogue. Must be one out there somewhere!


Paul's Unofficial Letterbox Pages


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## technical (Jun 22, 2018)

Windrush Square looking good in the sunshine this morning


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## urbanspaceman (Jun 22, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Paul's Unofficial Letterbox Pages



The go-to guys are the Letter Box Study Group: http://lbsg.org
A few years ago, they were very helpful in explaining how to ask for maintenance of the Penfold letter box on Mervan Road.


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## bimble (Jun 22, 2018)

Love a bit of post-colonial letterbox studies. Here's a handsome specimen spotted in Dhaka (bangladesh).


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## editor (Jun 22, 2018)

This is very poignant... 












Tributes to three graffiti artists killed by a train appear in Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


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## editor (Jun 22, 2018)

Some pics from last night. The new band are more laid back that the old ones. 
















Live jazz and breakdancers: Thursday night at Brixton’s Prince of Wales – in photos


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## happyshopper (Jun 22, 2018)

Winot said:


> I think we should have different threads for news from SW2 and SW9


But there’s already a Herne Hill thread.


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## Angellic (Jun 22, 2018)

happyshopper said:


> But there’s already a Herne Hill thread.



 Are they not SE24?


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## happyshopper (Jun 22, 2018)

Angellic said:


> Are they not SE24?


It’s more a state of mind.


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## Gramsci (Jun 22, 2018)

editor said:


> I could import the posts into here or spin them off into a new thread if you want - just give me the post numbers.



Thanks for offer. But I'd rather leave this new thread as it is.

Ive found Brixton forum rather dispiriting recently.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Thanks for offer. But I'd rather leave this new thread as it is.
> 
> Ive found Brixton forum rather dispiriting recently.


You're not the only one but I hope you can carry on posting as usual and remember that some of the opinions here really, really don't represent the Brixton we know.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2018)

Some pics form last night at the Dog:





















In photos: Brixton Buzz  summer party at the Dogstar, Brixton, Fri 22nd June 2018


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## editor (Jun 24, 2018)

Pics from yesterday's lovely Windrush Square event 

















In photos: Windrush celebration in the heart of Brixton, Sat 22nd June 2018


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## CH1 (Jun 25, 2018)

Anybody know the story behind this planning application at the Effra Social?
18/01851/FUL     |              Change of use of upper floors from ancillary staff accommodation in connection with restaurant/ public house (Class A3/A4) to three self-contained units (2 x 2-bed. 1 x 3-bed), involving erection of rear extension at first and second floor level, and installation of dormer window to front elevation.                  |                                                                      89 Effra Road London SW2 1DF

A friend from Morval Road got a consultation letter on Friday 22nd June - with a consultation deadline of Friday 29th June. 

The application is to convert ancillary staff accommodation above the pub (claimed as disused) into two 2 bed and one 1 bed flats self-contained flats.

Nothing said at all about the pub use below - but the applicant Flutterby Ltd is one of many Anthony Thomas (Antic) companies - so they could be simply proposing to sell flats above a thriving pub.

I only mention as we've had issues with the Grosvenor and others in a similar situation.


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## editor (Jun 25, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Anybody know the story behind this planning application at the Effra Social?
> 18/01851/FUL	 |			  Change of use of upper floors from ancillary staff accommodation in connection with restaurant/ public house (Class A3/A4) to three self-contained units (2 x 2-bed. 1 x 3-bed), involving erection of rear extension at first and second floor level, and installation of dormer window to front elevation.				  |																	  89 Effra Road London SW2 1DF
> 
> A friend from Morval Road got a consultation letter on Friday 22nd June - with a consultation deadline of Friday 29th June.
> ...


I'm pretty sure that there is no one living above the pub - they opened it up for a Halloween special once - but if they're putting private flats above the Effra that's surely got to curtail the pub's activities because the first thing selfish, self centred yuppies do when they move next to a pub is complain about it.


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## editor (Jun 25, 2018)

They've totally killed off Pope's Road in the evenings.


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## editor (Jun 25, 2018)

This was good to see:






Brixton Stands With Grenfell. #JusticeForGrenfell


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## teuchter (Jun 26, 2018)

Have your say on an Extension of the Public Spaces Protection Order for Novel Psychoactive Substances | Lambeth Council



> *Deadline for responses*
> On Sunday 29 July 2018 at 11pm
> 
> We need your views. We want to extend our Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) which prohibits the possession and misuse of Novel Psychoactive Substances (NPS) in Lambeth. Our existing PSPO expires on the 16 August 2018.
> ...


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## editor (Jun 26, 2018)

World Cup in Brixton Watch the World Cup in Brixton – all the matches and all the pubs with big screen TVs


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## aka (Jun 26, 2018)

incident on arodene road just opposite Stir Coffee on the Hill, not sure what happened but there were 6 cop cars minimum and an ambulance.  hope whoever is on the floor is ok.


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## Angellic (Jun 26, 2018)

And here's Lambeth really getting their priorities right.

Have your say on an Extension of the Public Spaces Protection Order for Novel Psychoactive Substances | Lambeth Council


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## editor (Jun 26, 2018)

Angellic said:


> And here's Lambeth really getting their priorities right.
> 
> Have your say on an Extension of the Public Spaces Protection Order for Novel Psychoactive Substances | Lambeth Council


Yep. The really important stuff. No need to consult on library closures, flattening council estates and building a huge wall around the Country Show. Let's ask a load of stupid questions about nitrous.


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## Winot (Jun 26, 2018)

Angellic said:


> And here's Lambeth really getting their priorities right.
> 
> Have your say on an Extension of the Public Spaces Protection Order for Novel Psychoactive Substances | Lambeth Council



Just remember - when they go low, we go high.


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## Tricky Skills (Jun 27, 2018)

Winot said:


> Just remember - when they go low, we go high.



The original policy was put in place after a Lambeth consultation showed that 0.01% of the population in the borough was affected by anti-social behaviour from legal highs.


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## Winot (Jun 27, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> The original policy was put in place after a Lambeth consultation showed that 0.01% of the population in the borough was affected by anti-social behaviour from legal highs.



Quite - it’s a ridiculous policy. It’s also legally shaky - there have been court cases where nitrous dioxide has been found not to fall within the proscribed definition because of its use as a medical anaesthetic. 

If Lambeth really wanted to focus on the antisocial aspect they’d crack down on the associated littering. Or, more pragmatically, provide recycling bins for the canisters.


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## discobastard (Jun 27, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> The original policy was put in place after a Lambeth consultation showed that 0.01% of the population in the borough was affected by anti-social behaviour from legal highs.


I remember that. The consultation questionnaire was very badly designed and you only had about 100 characters to expand upon your responses.  

As somebody who sometimes designs questionnaire it was in no way fit for purpose.


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## editor (Jun 27, 2018)

I thought it deserved a farewell post: 






Farewell to the Montego Inn on Brixton Water Lane, London SW2


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## CH1 (Jun 27, 2018)

Anybody read the "Fame Academy" feature in last weekend's Standard magazine?
Identity School of Acting: a London drama school like no other

I'm only commenting because I noticed the place already - it's at the back of the mini NatWest Bank on the cut-through from Brixton Road to the market.

It's been operating with the doors open this week due to excess heat, and the clientele looked pretty white and male to me (except for a hijab-wearing receptionist), so looks a bit like a normal theatre school in the area might given what Brixton has now become. I think the school principal has managed to get an article written that hypes a theme that may not represent present students.

BTW I notice (from their prospectus) that Identity School of Acting is or was based in Whitechapel. Be interesting to know if they have now moved to Brixton, or just opened a Brixton site in addition by way of expansion.

The Brixton space they are in is the former offices of the World Development Movement (which moved to Kennington Park some years ago then renamed itself "Global Justice Now").


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## editor (Jun 27, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Anybody read the "Fame Academy" feature in last weekend's Standard magazine?
> Identity School of Acting: a London drama school like no other
> View attachment 139157
> I'm only commenting because I noticed the place already - it's at the back of the mini NatWest Bank on the cut-through from Brixton Road to the market.
> ...


I often see their students in local cafes, practicing lines with each other.


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## DietCokeGirl (Jun 27, 2018)

editor said:


> ...... practicing lines with each other.....


 *snigger*


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## editor (Jun 28, 2018)

We're in the main room at Market House tomorrow - come along! PM me for guest list 

This Friday 29th June- Beyoncé to Britpop: Brixton Buzz party at Market House. Get on the guest list now!


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## MissL (Jun 28, 2018)

A young man has been stabbed on Tulse Hill estate. It’s crawling with police and forensics right now. Lots of evidence bagged up and also a burnt out car. Not sure how it all unfolded but horrible. Poor kid.


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## MissL (Jun 28, 2018)

Teen fighting for life after being repeatedly stabbed on London estate


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## editor (Jun 28, 2018)

MissL said:


> Teen fighting for life after being repeatedly stabbed on London estate


That's awful.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2018)

Here's some pics from last night's ace jam session at the 414






















In photos: Jamming in Brixton – late night session at Club 414, Weds 27th June 2018


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## ricbake (Jun 28, 2018)

Wonder what sort of party they are not now going to have?





Lambeth MPS - Central South Command (@LambethMPS) on Twitter


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## editor (Jun 28, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Wonder what sort of party they are not now going to have?
> 
> View attachment 139273
> 
> ...


A free one, probably.


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## CH1 (Jun 28, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Wonder what sort of party they are not now going to have?
> View attachment 139273
> View attachment 139271
> Lambeth MPS - Central South Command (@LambethMPS) on Twitter


Looks like my vicar will be late for church (again)


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## editor (Jun 29, 2018)

Knitters!






Knit and Natter at the Brixton Pound Cafe every Monday, 2pm – free


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## snowy_again (Jun 29, 2018)

Cooltan is closing: Mental health charity CoolTan Arts ceases trading


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## editor (Jun 29, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Cooltan is closing: Mental health charity CoolTan Arts ceases trading


Not surprised as there's been all sorts of personal conflicts there. Shame, though.


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## editor (Jun 29, 2018)

I've asked them how many people actually took part. I'd suggest it's in the very low numbers.


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## cuppa tee (Jun 30, 2018)

Passing thru last night  junction of Stockwell road& Stockwell green was sealed from all directions with squad cars in attendance, like something heavy had gone down, fingers crossed not fatal.


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## Winot (Jun 30, 2018)

Wild Caper is under new management and it has just taken me 10 minutes to get a coffee that’s worse than Starbucks efforts.


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## editor (Jun 30, 2018)

Winot said:


> Wild Caper is under new management and it has just taken me 10 minutes to get a coffee that’s worse than Starbucks efforts.


Blimey - and it was never the quickest of places in the first place!

In other news the Dogstar was forced to close early after some nutter with a knife was outside.


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## editor (Jun 30, 2018)

Some pics from Market House last night. We've moved to the bigger room downstairs...


























In photos: banging Brixton Buzz party at Brixton’s Market House, Fri 29th June 2018


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## CH1 (Jul 1, 2018)

Simon Stevens CEO of the NHS coming up on Marr in a minute on BBC1,

He won Coldharbour Ward for Labour with 887 votes in the 1998 council elections (along with Donatus and Ambrose Hogan)
Considering the minimum winning number in Coldharbour is currently 1,975 you can see the demographic of the ward has changed markedly.


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## Gramsci (Jul 1, 2018)

I've posted this on the Save Gordon Grove Adventure Playground thread ( its in Gordon Grove Loughborough Junction) . This will be opening event. If you have children this age welcome to sign up.

We ( the volunteers) have been working to get the APG back in working order. The playground is now safe to use. I and others been working on the building to get it fixed this weekend.

	Build Up | GROVE BUILD

Build Up | GROVE BUILD

	This summer Grove Adventure Playground will be re-opening near you!

	To kick start the opening of this great community space we will be designing and building a new outdoor kitchen.

	If you’re aged 12-14 then join us on this project to develop new design skills as well as learning how to use hand and power tools. The whole project will be designed at built by you!

	In the first week of summer holidays, 23rd-27th July, we will be designing and building the initial shelter structure that will form the new kitchen space, as well as constructing a new fire pit, for outdoor cooking. We will be working from 11am – 4pm.

	We will close the week with an opening party on Friday 27th July and BBQ cooked on the new fire! All welcome!

	( You can sign up online or contact:

martina@buildup.org.uk

	or

grovevolunteers@gmail.com )


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## editor (Jul 2, 2018)

A bike hit a removal van on Saturday. No one badly hurt as far as I could see


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## shakespearegirl (Jul 2, 2018)

Attempted armed robbery at Lloyds bank in Brixton earlier today.

Customers and staff foil knifepoint robbery at Brixton bank


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## editor (Jul 2, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> Attempted armed robbery at Lloyds bank in Brixton earlier today.
> 
> Customers and staff foil knifepoint robbery at Brixton bank


Sounds like a particularly clueless robber.


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## CH1 (Jul 4, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> Attempted armed robbery at Lloyds bank in Brixton earlier today.
> Customers and staff foil knifepoint robbery at Brixton bank


Appreciate most people on here seem to hate Chuka, but his question to the PM just now was spot on. Seems this was actually a repeat attack and the mother had requested a move from the council - which was obviously and characteristically ignored.

May's answer was the usual flim flam about much they cared and were doing everything possible etc etc.


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## editor (Jul 4, 2018)

Get your bike fixed for free in Brixton tonight Get your bike ready for the summer with free Dr Bike check-up in Windrush Square, Brixton tonight, Weds 4th July


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## friendofdorothy (Jul 4, 2018)

FREE Pride party at Pop Brixton this afternoon 5-8pm.

Hosted by AgeUk Lambeth who are providing the entertainment in the form of DJ Shadow sister and the DIVATONES soul choir.

Some of the Brixton Umbrella Circle and myself intend to be there and enjoy a dance.


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## editor (Jul 4, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> FREE Pride party at Pop Brixton this afternoon 5-8pm.
> 
> Hosted by AgeUk Lambeth who are providing food and entertainment in the form of a DJ and the DIVATONES choir.
> 
> Some of the Brixton Umbrella Circle and myself intend to be there and enjoy a dance.


Is there a FB event/website for this?


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## friendofdorothy (Jul 4, 2018)

editor said:


> Is there a FB event/website for this?


I'm not on facebook - I think its promoted by Age uk on their My Social page and possibly by Opening Doors (older lgbt organisation) 
Our Calendar – MYsocial


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## friendofdorothy (Jul 4, 2018)

editor said:


> Is there a FB event/website for this?


sorry I've just read the My Social listing and its only entry and entertainment thats free - I've edited my post


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## editor (Jul 4, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I'm not on facebook - I think its promoted by Age uk on their My Social page and possibly by Opening Doors (older lgbt organisation)
> Our Calendar – MYsocial


Thanks but it's probably too late for me to list it now.  Damn.


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## CH1 (Jul 5, 2018)

editor said:


> Thanks but it's probably too late for me to list it now.  Damn.


I went to this. It was quite well attended and cross community - with an emphasis on this sort of music


personally I would have liked a bit of this

Surely Sylvester is the ultimate disco diva?


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## CH1 (Jul 5, 2018)

Was asked about this (hope I've got the right person trabuquera ?)


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 6, 2018)

Not that we were especially missed, and given our spiritual home was knocked down and we were out on our arse, but I am truly pleased to say that Time Tunnel are giving a new venue a go (or they are giving us a go) in September. All 4 DJs together again.....playing our records.....more info to follow....if that sort of thing excites you please keep an eye out....(28th Sept!)


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## brixtonscot (Jul 6, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I went to this. It was quite well attended and cross community - with an emphasis on this sort of music


Not sure if this video link from Pride party at p*p Brixton will work


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## editor (Jul 6, 2018)

The website for the vile Brixton Central yuppie development has a gallery containing 11 images of Brixton. T


Nanker Phelge said:


> Not that we were especially missed, and given our spiritual home was knocked down and we were out on our arse, but I am truly pleased to say that Time Tunnel are giving a new venue a go (or they are giving us a go) in September. All 4 DJs together again.....playing our records.....more info to follow....if that sort of thing excites you please keep an eye out....(28th Sept!)


Wahey! Where are you playing? Don't forget to list it on Buzz!


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## editor (Jul 9, 2018)

If anyone's looking to watch the big game in Brixton, here's an updated guide: 
World Cup semi final in Brixton! The best places to watch England vs Croatia, 7pm, Weds 11th July


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## northeast (Jul 10, 2018)

Should be a good view off the 100 plane fly over if you can get up one of high buildings of Brixton today. 

10 July Centenary Celebrations


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## teuchter (Jul 10, 2018)

northeast said:


> Should be a good view off the 100 plane fly over if you can get up one of high buildings of Brixton today.
> 
> 10 July Centenary Celebrations



It'll not pass over anywhere near Brixton though.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2018)

northeast said:


> Should be a good view off the 100 plane fly over if you can get up one of high buildings of Brixton today.
> 
> 10 July Centenary Celebrations


I saw that earlier. It's a bit cloudy but I should be able to get a view.


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## teuchter (Jul 10, 2018)




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## technical (Jul 10, 2018)

Watched from outside our office near Cannon St. Helicopters turned south afterwards so may have overflown Brixton


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## editor (Jul 10, 2018)

technical said:


> Watched from outside our office near Cannon St. Helicopters turned south afterwards so may have overflown Brixton


The helicopters came close-ish as they peeled off south but the rest of the jets flew off into the far distance. My feeble zoom didn't do a very good job of things but I'll post some pics later.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2018)

In photos: RAF flyover of central London, as seen from Brixton, Tues 10th July 2018


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## editor (Jul 10, 2018)

The notoriously unreliable FB is reporting a stabbing by Hootananny. Anyone know anything?


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## madolesance (Jul 10, 2018)

editor said:


> The notoriously unreliable FB is reporting a stabbing by Hootananny. Anyone know anything?



Yes, that happened. Not sure what happened apart from the many conflicting stories I heard. Cops have an area of pavement taped off.


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## editor (Jul 11, 2018)

madolesance said:


> Yes, that happened. Not sure what happened apart from the many conflicting stories I heard. Cops have an area of pavement taped off.


Some kid was chased by a gang and then bottled and kicked to the ground


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## technical (Jul 11, 2018)

The Tesco/Esso on Tulse hill is closed for another refit. They seem to redo it every 18 months at the minute


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 11, 2018)

technical said:


> The Tesco/Esso on Tulse hill is closed for another refit. They seem to redo it every 18 months at the minute



Cos the space is too small for the amount of footfall.....I used to go in there everyday and it would depress the fuck out of me...


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## editor (Jul 11, 2018)

For tonight: World Cup semi-final in Brixton! Where to celebrate/drown your sorrows in Brixton tonight after England vs Croatia


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## editor (Jul 11, 2018)

Brixton World Cup pub update. Hootananny full up, big queues outside the Effra Social,  Dogstar and Albert also looking very full. Good luck if you're not in a pub yet!


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## editor (Jul 11, 2018)

And in the Railway...


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## rlw (Jul 13, 2018)

Might have missed this further up the chat, but appears Cabana on Ferndale Road has closed down and vacated premises.  Brixton location taken off their website too.  That didn't last long.


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## editor (Jul 13, 2018)

rlw said:


> Might have missed this further up the chat, but appears Cabana on Ferndale Road has closed down and vacated premises.  Brixton location taken off their website too.  That didn't last long.


Bloody hell. Perhaps the bubble of endless new eateries has finally burst in Brixton.


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## MissL (Jul 13, 2018)

rlw said:


> Might have missed this further up the chat, but appears Cabana on Ferndale Road has closed down and vacated premises.  Brixton location taken off their website too.  That didn't last long.



Urgh. I went there once just after it opened and got food poisoning. Definitely from dodgy rice. Can't say I'm sad to see it go. Terrible place.


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## alex_ (Jul 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Bloody hell. Perhaps the bubble of endless new eateries has finally burst in Brixton.



Expensive, chain eateries.

Alex


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## editor (Jul 15, 2018)

Brixton still seems on a bit of a World Cup hangover as it was much quieter last night almost everywhere.


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## editor (Jul 16, 2018)

It's really not my idea of pub fun, but if it's your kind of thing...


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## editor (Jul 16, 2018)

Love it. 






‘Clapham That Way’ says angry anti-gentrification graffiti on Brixton railway bridge


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## editor (Jul 16, 2018)

Please contribute if you can - they do a great job 
Lambeth Housing Activists launch crowdfunding appeal to cover campaigning costs


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## editor (Jul 16, 2018)

editor said:


> Love it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The full message reads: "Clapham that way, you 2D Flat White Tepid Colonialist Yuppy Wanker."


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## editor (Jul 16, 2018)

I like this one too:


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## David Clapson (Jul 16, 2018)

Free strawberries at the B£ cafe. And a blissfully cool, quiet basement with free wifi if your usual workplace is unbearable.


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## editor (Jul 17, 2018)

They still haven't reached their target so please give something if you can - they do great work in the community and support vulnerable people struggling to keep a roof over their heads: Help raise £400 to help fund Lambeth Housing Activist group meeting rooms and other expenses


----------



## sparkybird (Jul 17, 2018)

thanks for this - happy to help!


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## djdando (Jul 18, 2018)

Does anyone know if the works that are starting on Brixton Hill relate to the road widening plans?


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## MissL (Jul 18, 2018)

djdando said:


> Does anyone know if the works that are starting on Brixton Hill relate to the road widening plans?



No don't think so. It's gas works. Are there plans to widen the road?


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## theboris (Jul 19, 2018)

Yes it is carriageway widening and resurfacing: Expect delays: Months of roadworks for Brixton Hill


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## MissL (Jul 19, 2018)

Ok got you. The gas works are further down near Oval.


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## editor (Jul 19, 2018)

Anyone know the story to this?  (its around the back of the old Phoenix cafe - hence the name? - on Electric lane towards Rushcroft Rd).


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## CH1 (Jul 19, 2018)

editor said:


> Anyone know the story to this?  (its around the back of the old Phoenix cafe - hence the name? - on Electric lane towards Rushcroft Rd).
> View attachment 141658


As far as I heard Mr Soner (of Phoenix Cafe fame) unilaterally decided that the space behind his cafe would be called Soner Square.

Britain being Britain (rather than Northern Cyprus) you can't just do that.

So I imagine LB Lambeth must've gone put to consultation on a new name and come up with Farrier's Mews. This does of course fit nicely with the original name of "Living" (The Coach and Horses)"
Farrier - Wikipedia


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## editor (Jul 19, 2018)

CH1 said:


> As far as I heard Mr Soner (of Phoenix Cafe fame) unilaterally decided that the space behind his cafe would be called Soner Square.
> 
> Britain being Britain (rather than Northern Cyprus) you can't just do that.
> 
> ...


Just £415 a week to be a nu-Brixton resident in Farrier's Mews!

http://www.keatingestates.com/lettings/farriers-mews-brixton-sw9-2229/brochure


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## CH1 (Jul 19, 2018)

editor said:


> Just £415 a week to be a nu-Brixton resident in Farrier's Mews!
> http://www.keatingestates.com/lettings/farriers-mews-brixton-sw9-2229/brochure


That seems average doesn't it? (just looking at Zoopla, Rightmove etc)
I wonder whether my council tax was deployed to good effect putting up TWO "Farriers Mews" signs though.

Note the Lambeth Council sign designers have omitted the apostrophe that is surely required (unless they are implying that there could have been a multiplicity of Farriers shoeing horses on an industrial scale!)


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## Gramsci (Jul 19, 2018)

editor said:


> Anyone know the story to this?  (its around the back of the old Phoenix cafe - hence the name? - on Electric lane towards Rushcroft Rd).
> 
> View attachment 141658



This was the access to shops on CHL.

Soner decided to appropriate it. And built the flats. 

From what I have heard ownership of land in Soner Square/ Farriers mews is , how to put it, not clear.


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## editor (Jul 19, 2018)

CH1 said:


> That seems average doesn't it? (just looking at Zoopla, Rightmove etc)
> I wonder whether my council tax was deployed to good effect putting up TWO "Farriers Mews" signs though.
> 
> Note the Lambeth Council sign designers have omitted the apostrophe that is surely required (unless they are implying that there could have been a multiplicity of Farriers shoeing horses on an industrial scale!)


I loathe these new private, gated roads that are appearing in Brixton (see Brixton Square/The Edge etc).


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## CH1 (Jul 20, 2018)

editor said:


> I loathe these new private, gated roads that are appearing in Brixton (see Brixton Square/The Edge etc).


Of course the Edge is not supposed to be gated. At the consultation stage and the planning committee it was stated that it wouldn't. Ironically the best guarantee of accessibility at the Edge would be some vibrant coffee bars in the arches behind.


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## editor (Jul 20, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Of course the Edge is not supposed to be gated. At the consultation stage and the planning committee it was stated that it wouldn't. Ironically the best guarantee of accessibility at the Edge would be some vibrant coffee bars in the arches behind.


As I recall, the gate only goes down (in daytimes) if a high percentage of the arches are converted into edgy lifestyle restaurants. But at night, it's full on Gate-a-Dom.


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## David Clapson (Jul 20, 2018)

Woman seriously hurt crossing the road outside Morleys. Hit by a truck.

Road closed, bus stops suspended.


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## Metroman (Jul 20, 2018)

I've just seen the helicopter fly over head. I hope she is ok


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## editor (Jul 20, 2018)

A big stretch of Brixton Road is still taped off


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2018)




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## ricbake (Jul 20, 2018)

Police quoted in Croydon paper
“The pedestrian, believed to be aged in her 80s, has been taken to a south London hospital with possible life-threatening and life-changing injuries"


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Police quoted in Croydon paper
> “The pedestrian, believed to be aged in her 80s, has been taken to a south London hospital with possible life-threatening and life-changing injuries"


That's so sad. The lorry (if that's the one that hit her) is huge and looks in a rum state.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 20, 2018)

Crossing that road is a regular dance with the devil....


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## Mrs Miggins (Jul 20, 2018)

I always thought that taking out the barrier that used to run down the middle was a massive mistake.


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## trabuquera (Jul 20, 2018)

^My sympathy to the pedestrian in this case (broken bones in your 80s are no joke) but I honestly don't think that the barrier improved pedestrian safety in the past - where there is heavy traffic on wheels and on foot, and people taking chances to rush across to/from the Tube/busstops/shops, as they certainly did on that stretch even when the barrier was still there, you're going to have accidents almost whatever the layout.


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## lefteri (Jul 20, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> I always thought that taking out the barrier that used to run down the middle was a massive mistake.


I’m pretty sure studies (in Holland I think) have shown that barriers are more dangerous, hence their removal in Brixton


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 20, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> I always thought that taking out the barrier that used to run down the middle was a massive mistake.



I just used to jump it, and risk falling flat in front of a car....


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## Mrs Miggins (Jul 20, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I just used to jump it, and risk falling flat in front of a car....


Yeah i know people did do that but surely it must have deterred the majority from not using the crossings? 

Anyway - it's a moot point as it's long gone.


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## Mrs Miggins (Jul 20, 2018)

lefteri said:


> I’m pretty sure studies (in Holland I think) have shown that barriers are more dangerous, hence their removal in Brixton


OK well it must be fine then.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 20, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Yeah i know people did do that but surely it must have deterred the majority from not using the crossings?
> 
> Anyway - it's a moot point as it's long gone.



Thank the lord, cos I broke my knee jumping over it one night....


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## Mrs Miggins (Jul 20, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Thank the lord, cos I broke my knee jumping over it one night....


----------



## ricbake (Jul 20, 2018)

Studies have shown a 56% reduction in accidents over 3 years after railings were removed
Safety railings could be stripped from UK roads | This is Money


----------



## ricbake (Jul 20, 2018)

The narrow busy A23 in Streatham, Norwood & Brixton Town Centres should have warning signs to scare drivers into being more aware of pedestrians


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## T & P (Jul 20, 2018)

Sure. But there should also be signs warning pedestrians against taking their chances against moving traffic when there are not one but two traffic light-regulated pedestrian crossings in that short stretch of road that offer extremely safe crossings to pedestrians if only they can spare 30 seconds until the lights change.

Not speculating what might have happened here of course, but every single time I have been present on that stretch of road I've witnessed dozens of people coming off buses and dodging moving traffic to get to the Tube all those few precious seconds earlier. If  the government ever considered introducing a pilot jaywalking scheme, Brixton Road outside the Tube has to be the most obvious choice in the entire country.


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## Ms T (Jul 20, 2018)

T & P said:


> Sure. But there should also be signs warning pedestrians against taking their chances against moving traffic when there are not one but two traffic light-regulated pedestrian crossings in that short stretch of road that offer extremely safe crossings to pedestrians if only they can spare 30 seconds until the lights change.
> 
> Not speculating what might have happened here of course, but every single time I have been present on that stretch of road I've witnessed dozens of people coming off buses and dodging moving traffic to get to the Tube all those few precious seconds earlier. If  the government ever considered introducing a pilot jaywalking scheme, Brixton Road outside the Tube has to be the most obvious choice in the entire country.


There are three!


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## ricbake (Jul 20, 2018)

T & P said:


> Sure. But there should also be signs warning pedestrians against taking their chances against moving traffic when there are not one but two traffic light-regulated pedestrian crossings in that short stretch of road that offer extremely safe crossings to pedestrians if only they can spare 30 seconds until the lights change.
> 
> Not speculating what might have happened here of course, but every single time I have been present on that stretch of road I've witnessed dozens of people coming off buses and dodging moving traffic to get to the Tube all those few precious seconds earlier. If  the government ever considered introducing a pilot jaywalking scheme, Brixton Road outside the Tube has to be the most obvious choice in the entire country.



Why should thousands people on the pavement trying to navigate Brixton' s bus station, rail inter change, main shopping street keep to the demarked area and if they stray out of it expect to be mown down by a motorist not able to give a little?


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## billythefish (Jul 20, 2018)

Part of the problem is stationary traffic (usually buses) on the inside lane lulling would-be jaywalkers into a false sense of security when the outside lane is moving quite briskly. There is no visibility beyond a bus or HGV. I regularly cycle and drive through and always expect someone to pop out from behind a bus, but those less local would not be as aware. I do wonder whether warning signs in areas such as these would make a difference to drivers. It's supposed to be a 20mph zone too. Very sadly, I have read elsewhere that the poor lady has not made it.


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## teuchter (Jul 20, 2018)

Nothing seems to make a difference to drivers, especially when there's zero attempt to enforce speed limits.


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## teuchter (Jul 20, 2018)

And there's no such thing as jaywalking in the UK.


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## billythefish (Jul 20, 2018)

teuchter said:


> And there's no such thing as jaywalking in the UK.


 I was dumbfounded when I realised that during the Charlie Alliston case. It certainly changed how I ride in the UK.


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## teuchter (Jul 20, 2018)

billythefish said:


> I was dumbfounded when I realised that during the Charlie Alliston case. It certainly changed how I ride in the UK.


That's interesting - what did it change?


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## billythefish (Jul 20, 2018)

teuchter said:


> That's interesting - what did it change?


That I could be charged with Wanton and Furious driving for hitting a pedestrian, crossing a road without looking, when it was my right of way - caused me to ride much more cautiously.


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## happyshopper (Jul 20, 2018)

Jaywalking is a US construct that does’t have any meaning in the UK. The problem isn’t the pedestrians doing what pedestrians do; it’s the cars and other vehicles.


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## teuchter (Jul 20, 2018)

One of the problems with controlled crossings is that they default to red. So, anyone who only wants to cross the road on green men takes ages to get anywhere. This is just one reason I object to criticism of pedestrians wanting to take short cuts away from crossings or wanting to cross when it's red. For me to walk into central Brixton there are about six controlled crossings to navigate. Waiting for 30 seconds at each of those adds up, potentially adding an extra 30-50% onto the 'walking' time. Compare that to the time added to car journeys by sticking to the 20mph speed limit, which in reality is usually negligible or non existant and has the added bonus that you probably won't kill anyone in the process.
Anyway, this thing about crossings defaulting to red against pedestrians has been discussed for a while, but I was pleased to see this today:

Green man to be left on in busy areas to get Londoners walking

I hope it's a success and gets more widely rolled out.


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## teuchter (Jul 20, 2018)

happyshopper said:


> It didn’t change. Jaywalking is a US contstruct that’s never applied in the UK. The problem isn’t the pedestrians doing what pedestrians do; it’s the cars and other vehicles.


I know, and fully agree. My question was to billythefish about how it changed the way he rides.


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## billythefish (Jul 20, 2018)

teuchter said:


> One of the problems with controlled crossings is that they default to red. So, anyone who only wants to cross the road on green men takes ages to get anywhere. This is just one reason I object to criticism of pedestrians wanting to take short cuts away from crossings or wanting to cross when it's red. For me to walk into central Brixton there are about six controlled crossings to navigate. Waiting for 30 seconds at each of those adds up, potentially adding an extra 30-50% onto the 'walking' time. Compare that to the time added to car journeys by sticking to the 20mph speed limit, which in reality is usually negligible or non existant and has the added bonus that you probably won't kill anyone in the process.
> Anyway, this thing about crossings defaulting to red against pedestrians has been discussed for a while, but I was pleased to see this today:
> 
> Green man to be left on in busy areas to get Londoners walking
> ...


I totally agree - and think it should be extended to all traffic controls - they being intelligent so that those routes (whatever the user) with most congestion should be prioritised. I was just under a wrong illusion that we had jaywalking laws here.


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## MissL (Jul 20, 2018)

This is awful. Poor woman. I drive down Brixton Road nearly everyday and I go very very slowly because people leap like lemmings from the pavement down that entire stretch. Head down and hoping for the best. I also see other motorists and motorcyclists charging down there at ridiculous speeds. Regardless of whose right of way it is on the road why can’t people just use their freaking common sense. If there’s crowds of people slow down. That said even being careful there are sometimes just horrible horrible accidents.


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2018)

MissL said:


> This is awful. Poor woman. I drive down Brixton Road nearly everyday and I go very very slowly because people leap like lemmings from the pavement down that entire stretch. Head down and hoping for the best. I also see other motorists and motorcyclists charging down there at ridiculous speeds. Regardless of whose right of way it is on the road why can’t people just use their freaking common sense. If there’s crowds of people slow down. That said even being careful there are sometimes just horrible horrible accidents.


And there's also no shortage of utter bellends on motorbikes roaring along at ridiculous speeds. And twat cyclists too.


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## agricola (Jul 20, 2018)

editor said:


> And there's also no shortage of utter bellends on motorbikes roaring along at ridiculous speeds. And twat cyclists too.



At least the utter bellends on motorcycles are as dangerous to themselves as everyone else nowadays, given that 99% of the ones I see are wearing shorts and trainers and are without gloves.


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## T & P (Jul 20, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Why should thousands people on the pavement trying to navigate Brixton' s bus station, rail inter change, main shopping street keep to the demarked area and if they stray out of it expect to mown down by a motorist not able to give a little?


in a nutshell? Physics.


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## teuchter (Jul 21, 2018)

T & P said:


> in a nutshell? Physics.


No. Physics does not compel people to drive dangerously. It's not physics that says cars don't drive on pavements. It's not physics that says cars stop at red lights. It's decisions we make about priorities that decide these things.


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## T & P (Jul 21, 2018)

teuchter said:


> No. Physics does not compel people to drive dangerously. It's not physics that says cars don't drive on pavements. It's not physics that says cars stop at red lights. It's decisions we make about priorities that decide these things.


 There are many collisions between pedestrians and vehicles that don’t include any of the scenarios you suggest in your post, so frankly I am not sure how relevant such comment is.

Whereas various studies seem to suggest up to two thirds of collisions between a motor vehicle and a pedestrian are the fault of the former, that would still leave some 33% of them the fault of peds. A rather significant percentage indeed. But invariably we never, ever, _ever _see calls for pedestrians to actually pay a bit of attention when they cross the road-never mind suggesting that they could have possibly ever have been at fault. For the sake of clarity, I am not commenting on yesterday’s accident, but making a general observation about the widespread reaction here to any report of an accident.

As a local resident you must surely have witnessed incidents of peds crossing Brixton Road recklessly and without making even the most cursory of checks beforehand. Do you agree that it is actually possible for a vehicle driver to behave in the most defensive and cautious manner possibie and still hit a pedestrian without necessarily being the driver’s fault? Because I can assure you it is most definitely possible, and in fact commonplace enough. Yet the very suggestion of something as inoffensive and sensible as that perhaps pedestrians should also be the target of safety awareness campaigns from time to time is usually seen as an affront in this forum, as some of the last few posts have shown.


----------



## ricbake (Jul 21, 2018)

T & P said:


> There are many collisions between pedestrians and vehicles that don’t include any of the scenarios you suggest in your post, so frankly I am not sure how relevant such comment is.
> 
> Whereas various studies seem to suggest up to two thirds of collisions between a motor vehicle and a pedestrian are the fault of the former, that would still leave some 33% of them the fault of peds. A rather significant percentage indeed. But invariably we never, ever, _ever _see calls for pedestrians to actually pay a bit of attention when they cross the road-never mind suggesting that they could have possibly ever have been at fault. For the sake of clarity, I am not commenting on yesterday’s accident, but making a general observation about the widespread reaction here to any report of an accident.
> 
> As a local resident you must surely have witnessed incidents of peds crossing Brixton Road recklessly and without making even the most cursory of checks beforehand. Do you agree that it is actually possible for a vehicle driver to behave in the most defensive and cautious manner possibie and still hit a pedestrian without necessarily being the driver’s fault? Because I can assure you it is most definitely possible, and in fact commonplace enough. Yet the very suggestion of something as inoffensive and sensible as that perhaps pedestrians should also be the target of safety awareness campaigns from time to time is usually seen as an affront in this forum, as some of the last few posts have shown.



I've been listening to pedestrian safety campaigns since tuffty the squirrel - What you appear to be saying is 2 out of 3 drivers and 1 out of 3 pedestrians in rtcs need to be more aware - well where might a good place to start be - A particularly pedestrian dense area with a busy through route?
Try some psychology and arrange the physics to stop injuring people.


----------



## billythefish (Jul 21, 2018)

ricbake said:


> I've been listening to pedestrian safety campaigns since tuffty the squirrel - What you appear to be saying is 2 out of 3 drivers and 1 out of 3 pedestrians in rtcs need to be more aware - well where might a good place to start be - A particularly pedestrian dense area with a busy through route?
> Try some psychology and arrange the physics to stop injuring people.


 A brief helmet-cam shot riding through Brixton from a cyclist's point of view... I could post hours more.


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## billythefish (Jul 21, 2018)

Another brief helmet-cam...


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## T & P (Jul 21, 2018)

billythefish said:


> Another brief helmet-cam...



Exactly. Countless ‘not-a-fuck-given’ peds doing zombie impressions while crossing one of the busiest roads in London.


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## teuchter (Jul 21, 2018)

I don't see any particularly 'reckless' behaviour from pedestrians in either of those videos. I do note a van stopped halfway onto a pedestrian crossing though, not an unusual sight.


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## teuchter (Jul 21, 2018)

T & P said:


> There are many collisions between pedestrians and vehicles that don’t include any of the scenarios you suggest in your post, so frankly I am not sure how relevant such comment is.
> 
> Whereas various studies seem to suggest up to two thirds of collisions between a motor vehicle and a pedestrian are the fault of the former, that would still leave some 33% of them the fault of peds. A rather significant percentage indeed. But invariably we never, ever, _ever _see calls for pedestrians to actually pay a bit of attention when they cross the road-never mind suggesting that they could have possibly ever have been at fault. For the sake of clarity, I am not commenting on yesterday’s accident, but making a general observation about the widespread reaction here to any report of an accident.
> 
> As a local resident you must surely have witnessed incidents of peds crossing Brixton Road recklessly and without making even the most cursory of checks beforehand. Do you agree that it is actually possible for a vehicle driver to behave in the most defensive and cautious manner possibie and still hit a pedestrian without necessarily being the driver’s fault? Because I can assure you it is most definitely possible, and in fact commonplace enough. Yet the very suggestion of something as inoffensive and sensible as that perhaps pedestrians should also be the target of safety awareness campaigns from time to time is usually seen as an affront in this forum, as some of the last few posts have shown.


We've been through all this before on the dangerous driving thread. I answered all these points quite comprehensively here.


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## teuchter (Jul 21, 2018)

T & P would you support a nationwide 20mph limit in built-up areas, strictly enforced? By strictly enforced I mean that if you're caught going at 25mph you get, say, a 6 month driving ban, next time a permanent ban.


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## Gramsci (Jul 21, 2018)

The thing about Brixton road in central Brixton was that it did have barriers to stop pedestrians from crossing road. These were removed. This has happened in other parts of London. Oxford Circus is example.

Its the Dutch system. Remove barriers. Traffic will learn to accommodate pedestrians. Its about making street space more open for pedestrians. Changing priority in favour of pedestrians. People learn to live with each other in tolerant fashion.

This works in Holland. Here traffic doesn't seem to be able to get the hang of it. Despite it being in place for years now.

The Dutch system isn't about more law enforcement or fines. Its more about encouraging change in perception of street / road users.

Its optimistic about how human nature works.

In a cut throat neo liberal country like this it doesn't work.

Sharing street/ road space should not have to be enforced by the state authorities.


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## Gramsci (Jul 21, 2018)

On motorcycles and mopeds. I have a lot of sympathy for Deliveroo and pizza delivery guys.

The worst I see is on weekends in CHL. Today came out. Saw two motorcycles speed down the road. No need for it. Just they are taking there high performance bikes out for a ride. They clearly weren't delivering anything. It was there weekend fun.


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## Gramsci (Jul 21, 2018)

This article summarise the two opposite views on road priority.

The US one with " jaywalking" as an offence. The Dutch one with pedestrians having legal right of way. Even where is not a pedestrian crossing.

When there is no such concept as ‘jaywalking’

In this country there is no legal law prohibiting "jaywalking" . Its that the " common sense" of traffic assumes there is one.



> Crossing the street; there is not much to it in the Netherlands, so it may be perfect to tackle this subject in this short post week. If you want to cross a city street you just wait for a gap in traffic and you cross. So, isn’t there an obligation to use a zebra crossing? No, there no longer is! That article 99 was scrapped from the traffic laws on 1 January 1995. Until then, pedestrians were not allowed to cross within 30 metres of a zebra crossing, effectively making it illegal to cross the street for over 60 metres with just one zebra crossing in the middle of that zone. That restriction was abolished to simplify the traffic rules and to give the pedestrian more freedom. A zebra crossing is now just a service to the pedestrian. You are allowed to judge for yourself if you want to use it, but you are not obliged to. If you do use the zebra crossing, other traffic must yield the moment it becomes clear you are going to cross the street. Just the visible intention to use the zebra crossing already gives the pedestrian priority over motor traffic and people cycling. U




When there is no such concept as ‘jaywalking’


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## T & P (Jul 21, 2018)

teuchter said:


> T & P would you support a nationwide 20mph limit in built-up areas, strictly enforced? By strictly enforced I mean that if you're caught going at 25mph you get, say, a 6 month driving ban, next time a permanent ban.


A blanket limit that doesn’t take into consideration the nature of many main throroughfares in which the current limit is perfectly adequate? No, absolutely not. Happy for all secondary residential streets to get a 20moh but on many main roads that would be an absurd overkill and not fit for purpose.

As to the punishments you suggest, i can think of various reasons why that would be a monumental error. For starters, it is actually  quite easy to to hit 25 mph from time to time even if one is consciously and strictly adhering  to the 20 mph. Many cars are not optimised for easy cruising at very low speeds and a slightly harder than hoped push on the accelerator will propel most modern cars 5-8 moh faster even if momentary. With others, specially older ones, the speedometer is not so precise at very low speeds and I’ve seen many a speedometer needle fluctuate aimlessly before it hits the low 20s.

Within months of such measures being introduced, many thousands of safe and responsible drivers would most likely have been caught and put on a one-more-strike and you-are-banned-for-life status, which would be an indescribably harsh and unfair punishment. Life bans should be applied to the most serious of infractions, not to something that in most cases will have caused no hazard at all or a very small one.

Such over the top punishments would also make many drivers so fearful they would spend a great amount of time watching their speedometer instead of the road. Accidents would undoubtedly result from it, a type of which there are likely very few of with the current set up.

The pollution issue is also potentially significant. Far more people are killed by emissions than by collisions. I can’t see how vehicles constantly travelling at speeds of 15-18 mph won’t produce more pollutants than the same vehicles sometimes travelling at 27-30 mph, which has to be more efficient.


----------



## rlw (Jul 22, 2018)

editor said:


> Bloody hell. Perhaps the bubble of endless new eateries has finally burst in Brixton.



Not quite...! Its to be a second Brixton outlet from the owners / operators of Canova Hall, opposite: All-Day Dining Group to Open First Italian Cafe in Brixton


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2018)

rlw said:


> Not quite...! Its to be a second Brixton outlet from the owners / operators of Canova Hall, opposite: All-Day Dining Group to Open First Italian Cafe in Brixton


Thst stretch is going to be even more Kensington when this lot open.


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## Gramsci (Jul 22, 2018)

rlw said:


> Not quite...! Its to be a second Brixton outlet from the owners / operators of Canova Hall, opposite: All-Day Dining Group to Open First Italian Cafe in Brixton



When I think Italian cafe I think a cafe. Like longstanding Bruno's in Soho.

No more. 

I really hate what I see happening to Brixton. And London in general.


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## ricbake (Jul 22, 2018)

rlw said:


> Not quite...! Its to be a second Brixton outlet from the owners / operators of Canova Hall, opposite: All-Day Dining Group to Open First Italian Cafe in Brixton


Isn't San Marino an Italian cafe?


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## SpamMisery (Jul 22, 2018)

It's an independent republic


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## Gramsci (Jul 22, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Isn't San Marino an Italian cafe?



San Marino lacks an underground cocktail bar. An integral part of Italian cafe culture.


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## bimble (Jul 23, 2018)

Anyone with children looking for a fun & free place to go try Grove Adventure Playground up the road.. open now (finally !) its a lovely place, proper adventure playground and there's experienced playworkers staffing it so you can leave your children (aged 6 to 14) to have fun without you. 
mysite


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## ricbake (Jul 23, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> It's an independent republic


Not in the context of 
*Brixton news, rumours and general chat*
**


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## SheilaNaGig (Jul 23, 2018)

Just seen this on the Our Brixton Facebook page:



URGENT

A black workman has just been physically assaulted by a police officer off coldharbour lane. EVERYONE TO BRIXTON POLICE STATION NOW.

Reports from people on the ground are that he was in a stationary vehicle not wearing a seatbelt. He was asked to provide his details. He did not comply immediately and was thrown to the floor and arrested. (Incident took place around 11:45am)

His brother and colleagues are requesting for people to gather outside  Brixton police station ASAP to demand his immediate release. Please spread the word.


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## SpamMisery (Jul 23, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Not in the context of
> *Brixton news, rumours and general chat*
> **



Sorry I don't see your point. San Marino is not part of Italy so I would expect they are a San Marinese cafe, not an Italian cafe.


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## ricbake (Jul 23, 2018)

Brixton People: the Italians of Brixton
Guide to work-friendly Brixton cafes: San Marino, Brixton Road, SW9


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## SpamMisery (Jul 23, 2018)

Whilst Buzz and Brixton Blog are undoubtedly infallible sources, San Marino's website doesn't describe themselves as Italian (or San Marinese for that matter). Fair enough if they want to describe themselves as Italian, but I would have thought it would be a bit like calling a Scot, English.


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## ricbake (Jul 23, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> Whilst Buzz and Brixton Blog are undoubtedly infallible sources, San Marino's website doesn't describe themselves as Italian (or San Marinese for that matter). Fair enough if they want to describe themselves as Italian, but I would have thought it would be a bit like calling a Scot, English.


And that it says "Italian Coffee Bar" above the door has no relevance to passing trolls


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## editor (Jul 23, 2018)

ricbake said:


> And that it says "Italian Coffee Bar" above the door has no relevance to passing trolls


He's now banned from this thread.


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## SpamMisery (Jul 23, 2018)

Fair enough. Not noticed that


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## CH1 (Jul 23, 2018)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Just seen this on the Our Brixton Facebook page:
> A black workman has just been physically assaulted by a police officer off coldharbour lane. EVERYONE TO BRIXTON POLICE STATION NOW.
> Reports from people on the ground are that he was in a stationary vehicle not wearing a seatbelt. He was asked to provide his details. He did not comply immediately and was thrown to the floor and arrested. (Incident took place around 11:45am)
> His brother and colleagues are requesting for people to gather outside  Brixton police station ASAP to demand his immediate release. Please spread the word.


Dunno about this - but I can confirm multiple police were doing "an operation" corner of Rushcroft Road and Coldharbour Lane this morning.

I saw it about 9.15 am when I went to a get paper, and then again at 11.50 am when I was going into town.
Not clear what the police were inspecting. 9.15 am was very dead/quiet and they seemed to be eyeing Connaught Mansions. I wondered if they were waing for rogue JP Morgan bankers who consort there.

At 11.50 I was walking just behind a couple of large fit white guys in white T shirts. I had thought these men were estate agents on a dress down Monday -  but they gave the unformed officers on the other side of the road a cheery wave - so I guess they could well have been plain clothes police officers on a dress-down mission. The uniformed PCs/WPCs meanwhile were talking to an elderly Nigerian woman getting out of a taxi. Hopefully not wanting full certification for every year since the year dot.


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## snowy_again (Jul 23, 2018)

There's a big fire somewhere east of here - Blackheath / Welling sort of way


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## editor (Jul 23, 2018)

This lot went thumping down Coldharbour Lane on Saturday morning. I thought that they were scouts at first, but they were some variant of God Squad Adventism.


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## editor (Jul 23, 2018)

And how come this tent is allowed to trade every day of the week on Windrush Square?  Weren't we supposed to be getting a cafe of some sort?


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## SheilaNaGig (Jul 23, 2018)

I was sitting outside the Ritzy just now and it all nearly kicked off on the square.

Some kind of quarrel amongst the lot who sit about on the chairs developed into a running fight, and then a knife was pulled out. Bicycles were used as shields, people were charging about chasing each other for a good five minutes, and then it all settled down into fierce discussion and rough-housing, and then several of them  belted off on their bikes and it was all over.

Hot town summer in the city.


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## editor (Jul 23, 2018)

SheilaNaGig said:


> I was sitting outside the Ritzy just now and it all nearly kicked off on the square.
> 
> Some kind of quarrel amongst the lot who sit about on the chairs developed into a running fight, and then a knife was pulled out. Bicycles were used as shields, people were charging about chasing each other for a good five minutes, and then it all settled down into fierce discussion and rough-housing, and then several of them  belted off on their bikes and it was all over.
> 
> Hot town summer in the city.


I hope the CCTV got a nice close up of the big hero with a knife.


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## editor (Jul 23, 2018)

A little Brixton nocturne 







In photos: late night jamming in Windrush Square, Brixton


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## teuchter (Jul 23, 2018)

T & P said:


> A blanket limit that doesn’t take into consideration the nature of many main throroughfares in which the current limit is perfectly adequate? No, absolutely not. Happy for all secondary residential streets to get a 20moh but on many main roads that would be an absurd overkill and not fit for purpose.
> 
> As to the punishments you suggest, i can think of various reasons why that would be a monumental error. For starters, it is actually  quite easy to to hit 25 mph from time to time even if one is consciously and strictly adhering  to the 20 mph. Many cars are not optimised for easy cruising at very low speeds and a slightly harder than hoped push on the accelerator will propel most modern cars 5-8 moh faster even if momentary. With others, specially older ones, the speedometer is not so precise at very low speeds and I’ve seen many a speedometer needle fluctuate aimlessly before it hits the low 20s.
> 
> ...



We've been through most of this before on other threads. The idea that slower speeds produces worse air pollution is completely evidence-free (in fact I'm pretty sure the opposite is true). So is the nonsense about people being unable to keep their eye on a speedo and drive safely. "Accidents would undoubtedly result"? Where's the evidence for this? If stricter enforcement made people fearful about their ability to stick to speed limits perhaps that would be the impetus for the market to provide tecnological solutions such as speed limiters, which in my opinion should already exist.

All these reasons you give are just excuses, they are just excuses to give cover for what your real feeling is which is that 20mph limits are fundamentally unnecessary, I think. That's what a lot of motorists think - they don't even think they should apply on secondary residential routes. This 20mph business is something imposed on them that restricts their freedom and challenges their wish to make their own judgements about when it is and isn't safe to stick to the limit. The desired leeway and lax enforcement isn't really about making sure accidents do't result from 'fearful' drivers - it's because people want it to be them themselves who decides when they don't bother with the 20mph limit. And the funny thing is that you seem really bothered about pedestrians making their own decisions about where and when they cross the road. You want flexible, we-won't-really-enforce-them rules for drivers but don't like it when pedestrians cross the road in central Brixton outside of the controlled crossings - you are bothered by them not sacrificing however many seconds of their day to go and cross the road in 'proper' fashion but you don't want to drive at 20mph on what you call main thoroughfares, presumably because you don't want to sacrifice a similar number of seconds of your own life in getting to your destination marginally later.

As always, when looking at this comparison between pedestrians and drivers, both taking risks to get somewhere a bit quicker, what has to be borne in mind is: the risks pedestrians take are mainly to themselves, but the risks drivers take aren't.


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## Gramsci (Jul 23, 2018)

teuchter said:


> All these reasons you give are just excuses, they are just excuses to give cover for what your real feeling is which is that 20mph limits are fundamentally unnecessary, I think. That's what a lot of motorists think - they don't even think they should apply on secondary residential routes. This 20mph business is something imposed on them that restricts their freedom and challenges their wish to make their own judgements about when it is and isn't safe to stick to the limit.
> 
> You want flexible, we-won't-really-enforce-them rules for drivers but don't like it when pedestrians cross the road in central Brixton outside of the controlled crossings - you are bothered by them not sacrificing however many seconds of their day to go and cross the road in 'proper' fashion but you don't want to drive at 20mph on what you call main thoroughfares, presumably because you don't want to sacrifice a similar number of seconds of your own life in getting to your destination marginally later.
> 
> t.



I agree with both of these.

And the lower speeds cause more pollution argument from car drivers is disingenuous.

The whole line of argument is based around "freedom". But imo a very Thatcherite way. Which is now seen as commonsense.


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## teuchter (Jul 23, 2018)

Here's where the pollution thing was discussed before.


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## T & P (Jul 23, 2018)

Actually teuchter i have never said nor am I bothered by pedestrians crossing at places other than ped crossings. I do it myself all the time if it is safe to do so. What I object to is people not having the common sense or decency to do something as simple yet crucial as looking at all for hazards before crossing the road, as the two helmet cam videos posted upthread show multiple examples of.

I want to reply to the rest of the comments In your latest post, but I hope you’ll agree this thread is not the best place to continue discussing this subject further at length, which i’m more than happy to do. I’ll probably start a thread on the transport forum, and hope you, Gramsci and anyone else here interested will join in when I do.


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## teuchter (Jul 24, 2018)

T & P said:


> Actually teuchter i have never said nor am I bothered by pedestrians crossing at places other than ped crossings.



I'm not sure that's entirely true.




T & P said:


> Sure. But there should also be signs warning pedestrians against taking their chances against moving traffic when there are not one but two traffic light-regulated pedestrian crossings in that short stretch of road that offer extremely safe crossings to pedestrians if only they can spare 30 seconds until the lights change.
> 
> Not speculating what might have happened here of course, but every single time I have been present on that stretch of road I've witnessed dozens of people coming off buses and dodging moving traffic to get to the Tube all those few precious seconds earlier. If  the government ever considered introducing a pilot jaywalking scheme, Brixton Road outside the Tube has to be the most obvious choice in the entire country.



I don't think the helmet cams give multiple examples of people not looking for hazards, by the way. They do show people running across even when vehicles are far enough away that they'd have plenty of time to slow down. I see people wanting to the cross the road who are aware of the speeding and aggressive driving that they are up against. And I see people cutting a bit of a corner, yes, from pavement to crossing in a hurry to get across the pedestrian crossing in the moments that they are allowed to.


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## Gramsci (Jul 24, 2018)

editor said:


> And how come this tent is allowed to trade every day of the week on Windrush Square?  Weren't we supposed to be getting a cafe of some sort?
> 
> View attachment 141984



From what I remember being told by someone from Friends of Windrush square is that this done with permission of Council. They get money for it. 

Its in danger of being permanent feature not just every now and then. Its an eyesore. And its not on edge of square. Council in there wisdom decided to site it in middle.

Council view is that they need the cash.


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## editor (Jul 24, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> From what I remember being told by someone from Friends of Windrush square is that this done with permission of Council. They get money for it.
> 
> Its in danger of being permanent feature not just every now and then. Its an eyesore. And its not on edge of square. Council in there wisdom decided to site it in middle.
> 
> Council view is that they need the cash.


It does look shit. I wonder how much they're getting for it and why only this one business is allowed to be there permanently?


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## editor (Jul 24, 2018)

I've seen her around Brixton for years but this is the first time I've heard of her being violent: 
Woman banned from station after punching member of staff in the face


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## Twattor (Jul 24, 2018)

teuchter said:


> All these reasons you give are just excuses, they are just excuses to give cover for what your real feeling is which is that 20mph limits are fundamentally unnecessary, I think. That's what a lot of motorists think - they don't even think they should apply on secondary residential routes. This 20mph business is something imposed on them that restricts their freedom and challenges their wish to make their own judgements about when it is and isn't safe to stick to the limit. The desired leeway and lax enforcement isn't really about making sure accidents do't result from 'fearful' drivers - it's because people want it to be them themselves who decides when they don't bother with the 20mph limit. And the funny thing is that you seem really bothered about pedestrians making their own decisions about where and when they cross the road. You want flexible, we-won't-really-enforce-them rules for drivers but don't like it when pedestrians cross the road in central Brixton outside of the controlled crossings - you are bothered by them not sacrificing however many seconds of their day to go and cross the road in 'proper' fashion but you don't want to drive at 20mph on what you call main thoroughfares, presumably because you don't want to sacrifice a similar number of seconds of your own life in getting to your destination marginally later.


I don't have a problem with the 20mph limits per se.  What I do have a problem with is people being cunts, you there are plenty of cunt cyclists, cunt motorcyclists and cunt pedestrians as well as cunt drivers.  Drivers are just an easier target as they have a registration plate on the vehicle and are easily tracked-down. Driving through brixton is horrible, what with motorcyclists and cyclists diving through every gap and suicidal zombie pedestrians shambling out from between buses, but equally being a pedestrian in brixton is no fun as you're frequently forced off the pavements by idiot cyclists or having to run for your life as the cunts seem to think traffic lights only apply to cars.

I don't like this pervasive attitude of blaming car drivers for the city's ills.  Generally people just need to stop acting like dicks.


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## teuchter (Jul 24, 2018)

Twattor said:


> I don't have a problem with the 20mph limits per se.  What I do have a problem with is people being cunts, you there are plenty of cunt cyclists, cunt motorcyclists and cunt pedestrians as well as cunt drivers.  Drivers are just an easier target as they have a registration plate on the vehicle and are easily tracked-down. Driving through brixton is horrible, what with motorcyclists and cyclists diving through every gap and suicidal zombie pedestrians shambling out from between buses, but equally being a pedestrian in brixton is no fun as you're frequently forced off the pavements by idiot cyclists or having to run for your life as the cunts seem to think traffic lights only apply to cars.
> 
> I don't like this pervasive attitude of blaming car drivers for the city's ills.  Generally people just need to stop acting like dicks.



It's motor vehicle drivers who have the ability to kill other people through bad behaviour though. That's why different standards should apply to them.


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## teuchter (Jul 24, 2018)

Also, letting people drive cars, and not enforcing speed limits, automatically produces people behaving like dicks. There's no good just hoping that people will change. To some extent anyone will behave like a dick if you give them a car and just trust things to their judgement. I'd include myself in that. I don't drive a lot but I know the temptation to go faster or prioritise myself over other road users. 

We simply need fewer vehicles on the roads and we need to force people to obey the rules including speed limits. Driving on the public road is nota right, it's a privilege which is conditional on the terms of a licence.


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## Ms T (Jul 24, 2018)

A chap on my street was telling me yesterday that his car was written off by a pregnant, uninsured driver who crashed into him outside Mothercare on Brixton Road a couple of months ago. She was doing 55 mph hence the damage. Lucky she didn’t hit a pedestrian or a cyclist, just my neighbour’s extremely shiny top-of-the range Range Rover (and he’s old Brixton, before anyone starts banging on about yuppies and their flash cars).


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## editor (Jul 24, 2018)

Brixton Orchard is looking good 

In photos: Brixton Orchard starts to bear fruit, July 2018


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## snowy_again (Jul 24, 2018)

Twattor said:


> Drivers are just an easier target as they have a registration plate on the vehicle and are easily tracked-down.



Because society deems cars are a responsibility and a risk to other road / pavement users - hence why you need to be licensed to drive them, and your driving tracked by a registration plate. The impact of pedestrians and cyclists is so low that they aren't (yet) required to study and get a licence to use pavement / roads.


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## T & P (Jul 24, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Also, letting people drive cars, and not enforcing speed limits, automatically produces people behaving like dicks. There's no good just hoping that people will change.


 Your statement could be applied to many other aspects of life, not just driving.

As an example, it is illegal to be drunk in a pub as well as a variety of other public spaces, as i’m sure you’re aware. If laws governing drunkenness in licensed premises and public spaces were to be as strictly enforced and the punishments for offenders as severe as the ones you often propose for drivers, I’d bet the rather significant alcohol-related crime, accidents, assaults and deaths in this country could be cut dramatically

If a six month ban from all pubs in the country to anyone who got pissed in a pub,followed by a lifetime ban if they did offend again was introduced, as you have suggested for drivers who got caught doing 25 mph in a 20mph area, I reckon the number of people saved from death or life-changing injuries would be as high if not higher than the lives you would save from an ultra-strictly enforced 20 mph limit on urban roads. So surely you would support such approach for drinking law regulations as well?

Also, would you say the majority of people who enjoy a an alcoholic drink are dicks? I’ve certainly observed far worse behaviour as a proportion of all drinkers than as a proportion of all drivers.

Perhaps you have had a particularly bad lifetime experience of people who drive, but that has certainly has not been mine, and it seems to me you have a strong bias towards motor vehicles and and the people who operate them that make you make generalisations that are not really representative of the majority of drivers.

If all of the above was tldr, dicks will be dicks whether they are driving, drinking shopping or interacting with other people in any life situation.


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## Gramsci (Jul 25, 2018)

Deleted as quotation didn't work. Fiddly as fuck to use.


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## teuchter (Jul 25, 2018)

T & P said:


> If a six month ban from all pubs in the country to anyone who got pissed in a pub,followed by a lifetime ban if they did offend again was introduced, as you have suggested for drivers who got caught doing 25 mph in a 20mph area, I reckon the number of people saved from death or life-changing injuries would be as high if not higher than the lives you would save from an ultra-strictly enforced 20 mph limit on urban roads.



There are multiple apples&oranges problems with your comparison of _people getting drunk in pubs_ with _people not obeying speed limits.
_
But go on, give me the numbers you base your above assertion on. Real numbers.

Once you've done that, please explain the magnitude of the impingement on _peoples' ability to enjoy their lives_ that enforcing speed limits would result in.


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## Gramsci (Jul 25, 2018)

T & P said:


> Your statement could be applied to many other aspects of life, not just driving.
> 
> As an example, it is illegal to be drunk in a pub as well as a variety of other public spaces, as i’m sure you’re aware. If laws governing drunkenness in licensed premises and public spaces were to be as strictly enforced and the punishments for offenders as severe as the ones you often propose for drivers, I’d bet the rather significant alcohol-related crime, accidents, assaults and deaths in this country could be cut dramatically
> 
> ...



ASB legislation has been around for a number of years. Its been regularly used in London to stop street drunkenness, drugtaking and begging.


I'm not that keen on this but it has been in place for number of years now under various guises. Ie ASBO and now CPN.


Perhaps ASB legislation could be extended to motorists that speed?


That is defining speeding as behaviour that is anti social like street drinking or begging.


Its unlikely.


Not because the legislation is against it but there is perception that car drivers are ordinary decent people.


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## T & P (Jul 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> There are multiple apples&oranges problems with your comparison of _people getting drunk in pubs_ with _people not obeying speed limits.
> _
> But go on, give me the numbers you base your above assertion on. Real numbers.
> 
> Once you've done that, please explain the magnitude of the impingement on _peoples' ability to enjoy their lives_ that enforcing speed limits would result in.


Really? Are you happy to reduce this argument as to which scenario might produce the more casualties? I'm sure you must know that calculating the number of deaths caused by speeding on urban areas would be an all but impossible task. Indeed, I doubt such figures exist as anything more than broad guesswork.

You seem to be ignoring or be unaware that a great many accidents are caused by reasons other than speeding. Failure to pay due care an attention is a major one. Drink driving is another. Many of those take place with the driver travelling well within the speed limit, whether 30 or 20. Many of the peds or cyclists that get run over every year in London are done so by lorries turning left at undeniably low speeds. in short, an ultra strictly enforced speed limit would only reduce road casualties by a limited percentage, and would would nowhere near eliminating it.

As to people's ability to enjoy their lives being impeded by blanket 20 mph limits, it's not such limit that is the issue. Some people like me would find such limit on main roads wholly inappropriate on *certain* roads, but could of course live with it. What I take issue with is the ludicrously over the top punishments you propose for  committing two speeding infractions as inconsequential as being caught twice within your lifetime doing 25 in a 20 zone. Because being banned for life from driving is not only a major impediment to people enjoying ttheir lives, but in many cases will have a devastating effect on some people's lives, from those living in rural areas with shit public transport to those looking after old and infirm people to disabled drivers.

I'm not denying that grave road infractions deserve very harsh punishments including lifetime bans, and often not currently offered or implemented by our justice system. But if you really believe someone caught twice doing 25 on a deserted Denmark Hill ar 3 am deserves a lifetime driving ban, I guess our beliefs are so far apart we're never going to agree on anything much on the subject. But I still don't see how you could not support similar ultra draconian punishments for people being caught twice being drunk in a pub, given that alcohol-fuelled crime and accidents are also significant, and regardless of which one of the two issues might top the casualty list.


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## T & P (Jul 25, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Perhaps ASB legislation could be extended to motorists that speed?
> 
> That is defining speeding as behaviour that is anti social like street drinking or begging.
> 
> ...


 Sorry, not sure if I've read your last two sentences right. Are you actually suggesting that car drivers are not ordinary decent people?


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## teuchter (Jul 25, 2018)

T & P said:


> Really? Are you happy to reduce this argument as to which scenario might produce the more casualties? I'm sure you must know that calculating the number of deaths caused by speeding on urban areas would be an all but impossible task. Indeed, I doubt such figures exist as anything more than broad guesswork.



It's you that wanted to reduce it to casualty numbers! When you said 



> I reckon the number of people saved from death or life-changing injuries would be as high if not higher than the lives you would save from an ultra-strictly enforced 20 mph limit on urban roads.



So I was simply asking what your numbers were - and of course you don't have any - your statement had nothing behind it.



> You seem to be ignoring or be unaware that a great many accidents are caused by reasons other than speeding. Failure to pay due care an attention is a major one. Drink driving is another. Many of those take place with the driver travelling well within the speed limit, whether 30 or 20. Many of the peds or cyclists that get run over every year in London are done so by lorries turning left at undeniably low speeds. in short, an ultra strictly enforced speed limit would only reduce road casualties by a limited percentage, and would would nowhere near eliminating it.



No, I'm not unaware or ignoring any of this. My bet is that I have spent more time looking at the statistics than you have. An enforced 20 limit would not eliminate accidents and deaths but there's very clear evidence that it would reduce both. Yes there are examples where speed is not a contributory factor to the severity of the consequences of an accident but in most cases it is. There's loads of evidence for this. It was all posted on the dangerous driving thread where we went through this before.



> As to people's ability to enjoy their lives being impeded by blanket 20 mph limits, it's not such limit that is the issue. Some people like me would find such limit on main roads wholly inappropriate on *certain* roads, but could of course live with it. What I take issue with is the ludicrously over the top punishments you propose for  committing two speeding infractions as inconsequential as being caught twice within your lifetime doing 25 in a 20 zone. Because being banned for life from driving is not only a major impediment to people enjoying ttheir lives, but in many cases will have a devastating effect on some people's lives, from those living in rural areas with shit public transport to those looking after old and infirm people to disabled drivers.
> 
> I'm not denying that grave road infractions deserve very harsh punishments including lifetime bans, and often not currently offered or implemented by our justice system. But if you really believe someone caught twice doing 25 on a deserted Denmark Hill ar 3 am deserves a lifetime driving ban, I guess our beliefs are so far apart we're never going to agree on anything much on the subject. But I still don't see how you could not support similar ultra draconian punishments for people being caught twice being drunk in a pub, given that alcohol-fuelled crime and accidents are also significant, and regardless of which one of the two issues might top the casualty list.



I actually haven't necessarily said that I'd advocate such severe punishments. When I asked if you'd support such an arrangement it was largely rhetorical, to see what excuses you'd come up with. It was in the context of what I saw as unreasonable demands for pedestrian behaviour. It's not really worth engaging with this comparison you're trying to make with drinking in pubs; there are too many things that don't make it a meaningful equivalency. Punishing people simply for being drunk in a pub would be the equivalent of punishing people simply for driving a car. Yes, getting drunk produces risks just like the very act of driving a car produces risks. The question is what do people then go on to do. If getting drunk demonstrably leads to someone assaulting others, then yes there would be an argument for a strict ban on them drinking again, although this would be virtually unenforceable. If someone gets in a car and then proceeds to knowingly break the rules of the road, then there should be consequences. And enforcing that is possible, and practicable - but for some reason we currently decide not to in the vast majority of cases.


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## Winot (Jul 25, 2018)

Four lives a year saved by 20mph limits


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## snowy_again (Jul 25, 2018)

The city (Bristol) has saved an estimated £15,256,309 a year thanks to lower casualty figures
so there's an economic argument too.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> We simply need fewer vehicles on the roads



This about sums it up....


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## editor (Jul 25, 2018)

'SLOW DOWN, YOU SELFISH STUPID CUNT' would be the text I'd have on those flashing LED signs for speeding motorists, followed by instant tyre shredding if they fail to cut their speed within the next 500 yards.


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## aka (Jul 25, 2018)

Twattor said:


> snippppp Generally people just need to stop acting like dicks.


 Amen to that, and a chocolate eclair for everyone.  I cycle, walk and drive up/down the 'hill' all the time.  Here's a clue or two.  Driver - expect the unexpected - Cyclist - don't burn at 35k down to the lights at Morleys and then have to jam it on - Pedestrians - if you walk out in between the buses and not on the crossing you may get smushed.


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## shakespearegirl (Jul 25, 2018)

And the dick cyclist doing 35 miles an hour on the pavement by the town hall this morning should also have his tyres shredded


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## editor (Jul 25, 2018)

The dull march of gentrification. 

Small plates - tick
Cocktail bar - obvs
Expensive - c'est naturellement
Well backed owners - totes
Hefty PR guaranteeing it wins some award or another - most likely

Italian cafe and cocktail bar Cattivo coming to the rapidly gentrifying Ferndale Road in Brixton


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## teuchter (Jul 25, 2018)

Why is it, whenever dangerous driving is mentioned, people are compelled to start talking about cyclist or pedestrian behaviour? 

When we talk about, say, knife crime, no-one pops up saying "well yes, it's bad but let's not pick on people running around with knives when there's also people carrying umbrellas which they might hit someone with, and in the end it's just about people not being dicks, whatever they've got in their hand".


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## CH1 (Jul 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Why is it, whenever dangerous driving is mentioned, people are compelled to start talking about cyclist or pedestrian behaviour?
> 
> When we talk about, say, knife crime, no-one pops up saying "well yes, it's bad but let's not pick on people running around with knives when there's also people carrying umbrellas which they might hit someone with, and in the end it's just about people not being dicks, whatever they've got in their hand".


I can remember people raising the issue of cycling on pavements 25 years ago at the Police Consultative Group only to be ruled out of order because it is not genuinely antisocial behaviour.

I must say I've never been knocked down by a cyclist on the pavement but I've had a few close shaves - especially when they come up behind you and you are expected to have 110% hearing apparently as a pedestrian on the pavement.


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## editor (Jul 25, 2018)

Well, this is depressing


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## teuchter (Jul 25, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I can remember people raising the issue of cycling on pavements 25 years ago at the Police Consultative Group only to be ruled out of order because it is not genuinely antisocial behaviour.
> 
> I must say I've never been knocked down by a cyclist on the pavement but I've had a few close shaves - especially when they come up behind you and you are expected to have 110% hearing apparently as a pedestrian on the pavement.


To be clear, I absolutely don't think people should cycle at speed on pavements, and it's definitely anti-social. I'm not defending it. The point is, that there's a big difference in the damage that a bicycle and a motor vehicle can potentially do.


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## ricbake (Jul 25, 2018)

Statistical perspective

but


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## trabuquera (Jul 25, 2018)

^ was there not some sort of a legal/media flap some years back about (non police) people wearing anti-stab/ bulletproof clothing - that either it was illegal in itself, or that it could be used by police / in court as evidence of gang membership? Or am I misremembering that?


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## editor (Jul 25, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Statistical perspective
> View attachment 142174
> but
> View attachment 142176
> ...


Interesting stuff, but I'd love to see a graph showing the rise in bike use too to help make sense of those figures.


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## editor (Jul 25, 2018)

trabuquera said:


> ^ was there not some sort of a legal/media flap some years back about (non police) people wearing anti-stab/ bulletproof clothing - that either it was illegal in itself, or that it could be used by police / in court as evidence of gang membership? Or am I misremembering that?


It would make sense. Who wants to live in a society where all the youth are wearing stab proof vests?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 25, 2018)

2016:
23,000 pedestrian casualties .
5,000 pedestrians seriously injured.
26% of pedestrian casualties were under 15.
38% of children killed in RTAs were pedestrians.


----------



## aka (Jul 25, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> This about sums it up....


won't


teuchter said:


> Why is it, whenever dangerous driving is mentioned, people are compelled to start talking about cyclist or pedestrian behaviour?
> 
> When we talk about, say, knife crime, no-one pops up saying "well yes, it's bad but let's not pick on people running around with knives when there's also people carrying umbrellas which they might hit someone with, and in the end it's just about people not being dicks, whatever they've got in their hand".


worst analogy ever?


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 25, 2018)

T & P said:


> Sorry, not sure if I've read your last two sentences right. Are you actually suggesting that car drivers are not ordinary decent people?



Your post 218 appears to imply that government isn't dealing with drunkenness. In recent years "anti social" behaviour legislation has led to people being banned from areas for drunkenness.

You didn't appear to know about this.

My point is that how anti social behaviour is dealt with , what constitutes it and to what level state agencies police it are political decisions.

Police don't do much to enforce 20mph limit , I've been told ,  because they are concerned about alienating "ordinary decent people".

When it comes to enforcing the law, or making new categories like ASB, to deal with for example street drinkers / beggars these groups get the full force of the law. That is a political choice. 

The "law" isn't a fixed thing. 

Take drink driving. When I was younger I regularly heard people boasting of how they could drink and drive. Now its socially unacceptable. 

I have heard drivers boast about how they have broken speed cameras. That is considered still to be standing up to the Man.

My friend, who has started to drive more now to visit her elderly mum says breaking speed limits on regular roads and motorways is normal.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Why is it, whenever dangerous driving is mentioned, people are compelled to start talking about cyclist or pedestrian behaviour?
> 
> d".



Its standard. Boris cycle lanes have led to increase in resentment against cyclists.

I was helping a van driver today. Nice bloke but he spent whole journey complaining about changes in roads in West end.

Both Westminster and Camden are bringing in road calming measures. Making no entry on some side roads, widening pavements. Making traffic stick to main roads.

This is increasing journey times for traffic. The 20mph limit is one factor in changing roads from being dominated by traffic to putting cyclists and pedestrians first.

It is resented big time.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jul 25, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Its standard. Boris cycle lanes have led to increase in resentment against cyclists.
> 
> I was helping a van driver today. Nice bloke but he spent whole journey complaining about changes in roads in West end.
> 
> ...



A lot of van drivers are paid per drop so they might well suffer


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 25, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> A lot of van drivers are paid per drop so they might well suffer



I know. And have previously posted up about that. In a country with a largely unregulated workforce, where neo liberail capitalism encourages as a socially good thing individualism moves to change transport use arent going to work without the hard policing that Teuchter has advocated.

Considering things like pollution, climate change ( seeing that now) state action cracking down on individuals might be one scenerio in changing transport use. Whilst leaving Capital intact. The Chinese model. Increasing authoritarian state.

The social and political culture of this society isn't imo conducive to changing how transport operates.


----------



## happyshopper (Jul 26, 2018)

editor said:


> The dull march of gentrification.
> 
> Small plates - tick
> Cocktail bar - obvs
> ...



Plus the inevitable “vibrant”.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jul 26, 2018)

editor said:


> The dull march of gentrification.
> 
> Small plates - tick
> Cocktail bar - obvs
> ...


I’m enjoying the irony of describing unwelcome gentrification with the comment “c’est naturellement”


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> I’m enjoying the irony of describing unwelcome gentrification with the comment “c’est naturellement”


I thought that might be the important bit you'd puck up on. Gentrification has served you well though, hasn't it?


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2018)

Pics from last night: 

















In photos: Brixton jam session at Wicked Wednesday, 414 Club, 25th July 2018


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2018)

Message me for free tickets of anyone fancies coming along - we're in the main room downstairs now 

BRIXTON PARTY! Fri 27th July – Beyoncé to Britpop with Brixton Buzz at Market House – grab your free guest list now!


----------



## shakespearegirl (Jul 26, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I can remember people raising the issue of cycling on pavements 25 years ago at the Police Consultative Group only to be ruled out of order because it is not genuinely antisocial behaviour.
> 
> I must say I've never been knocked down by a cyclist on the pavement but I've had a few close shaves - especially when they come up behind you and you are expected to have 110% hearing apparently as a pedestrian on the pavement.



A couple of weeks ago one of the crack dealer pimps rode past me at speed on the pavement on Brixton Hill at 6.30am and tried to push me over, scared the fuck out of me. 

Of course there are fuckwit drivers, but I see a lot of really dangerous/aggressive cycling in Brixton and think cyclists should be equally punished when they break the law.


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> A couple of weeks ago one of the crack dealer pimps rode past me at speed on the pavement on Brixton Hill at 6.30am and tried to push me over, scared the fuck out of me.
> 
> Of course there are fuckwit drivers, but I see a lot of really dangerous/aggressive cycling in Brixton and think cyclists should be equally punished when they break the law.


There's plenty of total bellends cycling fast on the pavements around Brixton and some can be really aggressive about their 'right' to do so. The twats.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 26, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> A couple of weeks ago one of the crack dealer pimps rode past me at speed on the pavement on Brixton Hill at 6.30am and tried to push me over, scared the fuck out of me.
> 
> Of course there are fuckwit drivers, but I see a lot of really dangerous/aggressive cycling in Brixton and think cyclists should be equally punished when they break the law.



This is problem with how cyclists get vilified.

You are eliding crack dealer/ pimps with cyclists.

Yet drivers are just "fuckwits".


----------



## northeast (Jul 26, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> This is problem with how cyclists get vilified.
> 
> You are eliding crack dealer/ pimps with cyclists.
> 
> Yet drivers are just "fuckwits".


 
It's simple really, road for cars, bike lane for bikes pavement for pedistrians. But if no one enforces any of it it's a free for all. 

Massive cyclist myself and every driver should be thankful for ever person on a bike. We are one less car in your way.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 26, 2018)

northeast said:


> It's simple really, road for cars, bike lane for bikes pavement for pedistrians. But if no one enforces any of it it's a free for all.
> 
> Massive cyclist myself and every driver should be thankful for ever person on a bike. We are one less car in your way.



Its not how car drivers see it. As I explained in my post.

In central London , thanks to Boris cycle lanes, the its "simple really" works in my experience.

Drivers resent it. It does increase journey times in central London. This isn't a win win situation.

In central London pedestrians and cyclists are prioritised. Take the City. Bank is now buses and cyclists only daytime. Made massive difference to quality of life for pedestrians and cyclists.

I've also noticed that pedestrians and cyclists get on better once cars are excluded. Both pedestrians and cyclists can get around together with out cars much more easily. Its more relaxed atmosphere.

The conclusion I draw is the sooner society moves away from transport being dominated by individual car ownership the better.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 26, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I've also noticed that pedestrians and cyclists get on better once cars are excluded. Both pedestrians and cyclists can get around together with out cars much more easily. Its more relaxed atmosphere.



Yup. Cyclists shouldn't be on pavements. But largely they are there because they don't want to have to fight with cars on the roadway.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Jul 27, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> This is problem with how cyclists get vilified.
> 
> You are eliding crack dealer/ pimps with cyclists.
> 
> Yet drivers are just "fuckwits".




What bullshit. I was giving an example of an incident that happened to me.


----------



## CH1 (Jul 27, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> What bullshit. I was giving an example of an incident that happened to me.


That's it. On the other hand people watching cyclists as per for example Miss Marple on Talking Pictures TV would think of them as sweet little old ladies with sit-up-and-beg bikes with baskets at the front.

I am intrigued by the macho bike culture in Brixton where you see young guys chucking their bikes down across shop doorways and disappearing to get something - jerk chicken/packet of crisps whatever.

Obviously Miss Marple would lock her bike to a lamp standard or something but these guys seem to almost dare people into touching/interfering with their property which is left totally unprotected.

Presumably if you moved one of these bikes out the way so you can get in the shop it is the equivalent of Clint Eastwood striking a march on the hunchback's shoulder in "For a Few Dollars More"?


----------



## bimble (Jul 27, 2018)

Yesterday was in my car driving home along one of those roads with a clearly marked blue cycle lane and a big silver 4x4 car in front of me just drove in it for ages, until they turned left at their convenience. the cyclists behind had nowhere to go. Such blatant shameless arseholery I find it hard to get my head around. More cameras seems like the most obvious solution.


----------



## billythefish (Jul 27, 2018)

I think a public campaign to shame unnecessary car journeys is needed - in the same way they have tackled mobile phone use and smoking with children in the car. By far the biggest polluters and causes of congestion are the school-run / three mile commute brigade. Just look at the difference in road use during school holidays. It was a breeze getting through Brixton this morning.


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2018)

Finally! It's raining!


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jul 27, 2018)

And it's stopped again!

Here at the Oval, anyway. The cricket fans in the queue over the road have put their brollies away again.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 27, 2018)

I just ran out and got wet...it was lovely


----------



## shakespearegirl (Jul 27, 2018)

I looked out the back window of our office in Dalston and it was pissing rain, out the front door bright sunshine! 5 mins later it had totally stopped, is that it?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 27, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> I looked out the back window of our office in Dalston and it was pissing rain, out the front door bright sunshine! 5 mins later it had totally stopped, is that it?



Had a few downpours in Tulse Hill


----------



## shakespearegirl (Jul 27, 2018)

Made it home just in time to avoid the deluge, lovely walking in the light rain though


----------



## aka (Jul 27, 2018)

goodbye fancy funkin chicken - 
‘No pot of gold’ for independent Brixton businesses


----------



## aka (Jul 27, 2018)

also the Kwik-Stop on Brixton Hill opp Water Lane (next to Deen's) is now kaput.  Police closure notice.  It won't be back, according to the chap in the Nisa.  More worringly Cafe On The Hill now has an 'A3 suitable - to let' sign outside.
Brixton Hill , London  - CSJ Property Agents - South West London Property Sales & Business Rentals SW19 & SW17


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 27, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> What bullshit. I was giving an example of an incident that happened to me.



I'm not questioning the incident. Im questioning the context in which its being used.

Here is what you said.




> A couple of weeks ago *one of the crack dealer pimps rode past me at speed on the pavement *on Brixton Hill at 6.30am and tried to push me over, scared the fuck out of me.
> 
> Of course there are fuckwit drivers, but I see a lot o*f really dangerous/aggressive cycling in Brixton *and think cyclists should be equally punished when they break the law.



Ive high lighted the relevant passages.

This reads to me putting drug dealing pimps in with inconsiderate cyclists breaking rules of the road. 

Drug dealing pimps are already committing serious criminal offences. So should already be arrested for those. I would have thought exploiting women for financial gain is more serious than aggressive cyclist.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 27, 2018)

aka said:


> goodbye fancy funkin chicken -
> ‘No pot of gold’ for independent Brixton businesses



This is where the Phoenix was for years before Brixton became fashionable.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 27, 2018)

bimble said:


> Yesterday was in my car driving home along one of those roads with a clearly marked blue cycle lane and a big silver 4x4 car in front of me just drove in it for ages, until they turned left at their convenience. the cyclists behind had nowhere to go. Such blatant shameless arseholery I find it hard to get my head around. More cameras seems like the most obvious solution.



The blue cycle lanes are a bit confusing. If they are blue with solid white line on the edge car drivers can't go into them. If they have blue lane with white dashes its recommended car drivers give space but its not obligatory.

The more amusing cycle lane use is Blackfriars road. A segregated Boris cycle lane. I regularly see Uber drivers go up the Boris cycle lane to pick people up from the hotels on Blackfriars in evening. They don't do it on purpose. They are really that clueless. Turning from a side road into the cycle lane.


----------



## GarveyLives (Jul 27, 2018)

> A couple of weeks ago *one of the crack dealer pimps rode past me at speed on the pavement *on Brixton Hill at 6.30am and tried to push me over, scared the f**k out of me.
> 
> Of course there are f**kw*t drivers, but I see a lot o*f really dangerous/aggressive cycling in Brixton *and think cyclists should be equally punished when they break the law.



Now here's a remarkable coincidence ...

Cocaine use at 'middle-class parties' helping fuel gang violence on London streets, Sadiq Khan warns (click for more)


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 28, 2018)

GarveyLives said:


> Now here's a remarkable coincidence ...
> 
> Cocaine use at 'middle-class parties' helping fuel gang violence on London streets, Sadiq Khan warns (click for more)



Me doing a working class job find this way that the political establishment blame drug use on middle class nauseating.

Many of the people I work with work hard all week and do not see why they cannot get out of there heads  on weekend. If that is there thing. A lot of working class people do recreational drugs. They hold down a job and do , what are classified, as illegal drugs.

If Sadiq wants to get rid off criminal drug dealing he should support legalisation.

There is whole load of people out there who smoke a spliff ( I know and that includes Black people I know) or do a bit of coke. These are hardworking people who like to party on weekend or chill after work. They aren't drug addicts.

To try and argue that its middle class is rubbish.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Me doing a working class job find this way that the political establishment blame drug use on middle class nauseating.
> 
> Many of the people I work with work hard all week and do not see why they cannot get out of there heads  on weekend. If that is there thing. A lot of working class people do recreational drugs. They hold down a job and do , what are classified, as illegal drugs.
> 
> ...


It's total bullshit to suggest that only middle class people do drugs, or that they're the main market. Absolute tosh of the highest order.


----------



## The Yuppie (Jul 28, 2018)

editor said:


> It's total bullshit to suggest that only middle class people do drugs, or that they're the main market. Absolute tosh of the highest order.



That is not what the Mayor is suggesting though is it? 

Cocaine costs £60k a gram for semi decent stuff, and recreationally you would need at least one each, probably two. Therefore a nights consumption let’s say costs £100 per person, obviously you do it with a few mates, and you’ve quickly got an order of £400 for a few hours entertainment. 

Compare that to a bag of weed (£20) or a couple of pills (£20) and you can soon see why cocaine *is* a middle class drug. It’s high demand, high margins, therefore make it very attractive to dealers.

Coke is a horrible drug, but it is so rife in London, particularly with those who can afford to splurge an extra £100 or so on a night out.


----------



## pesh (Jul 28, 2018)

The fuck are you on about?
Working class people take pills because they can’t afford coke?


----------



## alcopop (Jul 28, 2018)

pesh said:


> The fuck are you on about?
> Working class people take pills because they can’t afford coke?


I would have thought the working class would take speed if they couldn’t afford coke?


----------



## The Yuppie (Jul 28, 2018)

pesh said:


> The fuck are you on about?
> Working class people take pills because they can’t afford coke?



No, that drug participation spans class. 

Coke is the most expensive, which means it’s more accessible to the wealthy, it’s also used as a social symbol for success - see films such as Wolf of Wall St etc. 

It’s uptake in London is growing at an alarming rate, and that is undoubtedly funded predominantly by the middle class. 

I understand that to be what Khan was suggesting, not that ‘only middle class do drugs’ which is what the editor claimed. Twisting the facts to fuel the class agenda this forum turns everything back to. 

And just to be clear, I am well aware cocaine proliferates all classes, but I am confident the demand is higher with the middle class.


----------



## pesh (Jul 28, 2018)

sorry Gabi, you're talking bollocks again.


----------



## bimble (Jul 28, 2018)

Stupid of Kahn to add in the 'middle class' bit, had he just said that cocaine is the most unethical thing you can buy might possibly have caused one or 2 people to think about it.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Jul 28, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I'm not questioning the incident. Im questioning the context in which its being used.
> 
> Here is what you said.
> 
> ...



Of course exploitation of women is far more serious, doesn’t mean the aggressive cycling isn’t serious and the law shouldn’t be enforced. I was citing an example of aggressive cycling.

Yesterday I saw a hipstery fuckwit ride really fast through a traffic free square in Dalston that was full of little kids playing.he was also wearing headphones, so not fully aware of his surroundings.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2018)

The Yuppie said:


> Coke is the most expensive, which means it’s more accessible to the wealthy, it’s also used as a social symbol for success - see films such as Wolf of Wall St etc.


You're about 30 years out of date with that cliche. Coke is everywhere. Across all classes. There is no luxury status attached to the drug any more


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2018)

Some pics from last night's show at Market House. We're at the DFogstar Ballroom tonight - drop me a PM if you want to get on the list!



















In photos: Brixton Buzz party at Market House, Coldharbour Lane, SW9, Fri 27th July 2018


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 28, 2018)

The Yuppie said:


> Twisting the facts to fuel the class agenda this forum turns everything back to.
> s.



I thought I was doing the opposite in this case. See post 273.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 28, 2018)

pesh said:


> sorry Gabi, you're talking bollocks again.



Aka Reibuzz from what I have been told.


----------



## Ms T (Jul 29, 2018)

bimble said:


> Stupid of Kahn to add in the 'middle class' bit, had he just said that cocaine is the most unethical thing you can buy might possibly have caused one or 2 people to think about it.


It’s an uncomfortable truth that most people don’t want to think about ime.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 30, 2018)

Check out this pair of cunts and their views on which areas of London are dangerous....they do get around to Brixton...but you may have smashed your computer before you hear what they have to say...


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Check out this pair of cunts and their views on which areas of London are dangerous....they do get around to Brixton...but you may have smashed your computer before you hear what they have to say...



*takes deep breath and hits play...

Oh - it says that it's unavailable...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 30, 2018)

editor said:


> *takes deep breath and hits play...
> 
> Oh - it says that it's unavailable...



Hurrah.....fucking twats


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2018)

Ms T said:


> It’s an uncomfortable truth that most people don’t want to think about ime.


Cocaine is a filthy trade but look deep enough into many 'legal' industries and you'll some real awful exploitation as well: like the rare metals that go inside that shiny new mobile phone.

My search for a smartphone that is not soaked in blood | George Monbiot
Our smartphone addiction is costing the Earth | TechRadar


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 30, 2018)

editor said:


> *takes deep breath and hits play...
> 
> Oh - it says that it's unavailable...



Check out some of their other bollocks...

Being British: Joel & Lia


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Check out some of their other bollocks...
> 
> Being British: Joel & Lia


Narcissistic, pointless wankers.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 30, 2018)

editor said:


> Narcissistic, pointless wankers.


----------



## alex_ (Jul 30, 2018)

editor said:


> Cocaine is a filthy trade but look deep enough into many 'legal' industries and you'll some real awful exploitation as well: like the rare metals that go inside that shiny new mobile phone.
> 
> My search for a smartphone that is not soaked in blood | George Monbiot
> Our smartphone addiction is costing the Earth | TechRadar



At least there are initiatives to fix this, and eg smart phone manufacturers are doing something about it.

I think you’d have to go to some effort to find another industry anywhere near as blood soaked as cocaine producers.

Alex


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 30, 2018)

alex_ said:


> At least there are initiatives to fix this, and eg smart phone manufacturers are doing something about it.
> 
> I think you’d have to go to some effort to find another industry anywhere near as blood soaked as cocaine producers.
> 
> Alex



Drugs should be legalised then wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm all for cocaine with fair trade gaurentee.

The industry is blood soaked due to years of failed drugs policy.

Organised crime moves into drugs market when its made illegal. Like prohibition in USA on alcohol years ago.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 30, 2018)

alex_ said:


> At least there are initiatives to fix this, and eg smart phone manufacturers are doing something about it.
> 
> I think you’d have to go to some effort to find another industry anywhere near as blood soaked as cocaine producers.
> 
> Alex



The Oil industry? Gold mining? Both destroy communities and environment.


----------



## alex_ (Jul 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Drugs should be legalised then wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm all for cocaine with fair trade gaurentee.
> 
> The industry is blood soaked due to years of failed drugs policy.
> 
> Organised crime moves into drugs market when its made illegal. Like prohibition in USA on alcohol years ago.



I’m not disagreeing with you.

Alex


----------



## classicdish (Jul 30, 2018)

Re. Cocaine use...

Here are the latest Home Office figures:
Drug Misuse: Findings from the 2017/18 Crime Survey for England and Wales

Unfortunately the relevant figures are only contained in the Appendix Tables which need to be downloaded as an .xlsx spreadsheet link

Here's the bit I think is most relevant although the table covers other drugs and other socio-economic indicators so maybe someone else can have a look.

Appendix Table 3.03

Proportion (%) reporting use of powder cocaine in the last year, 2017/18

ALL ADULTS AGED 16 to 59			   2.6

Household income	

Less than £10,000							2.0
£10,000 less than £20,000				2.0
£20,000 less than £30,000				2.1
£30,000 less than £40,000				1.6
£40,000 less than £50,000				2.8
£50,000 or more							  3.4
No income stated or not enough information provided	3.0

Cannabis by way of comparison is the most popular drug (powdered cocaine is number 2) and has the following distribution:

all adults 7.2

<10k 11.8
10-20k 7.1
20-30k 6.4
30-40k 6.9
40-50k 5.9
50k+ 6.3
n/a 9.0


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2018)

I've got personal history with this stuff and some very strong feelings about it as a result. On the class /money thing though, having spent time in the many CA 12 step groups around this area* where powder & crack are not differentiated, those meetings have the most diverse cross section of local people you could ever find in one room at the same time and all talking about the same thing really. Of course some people had ended up with their kids taken into care and selling sex whilst some just lost their jobs wives houses etc but the best thing about it was everyone listening to each other with respect & understanding the commonality of the shared experience of this shitty drug. I don't think it makes much sense to treat them as separate things as most people who get into trouble move between them to 'economise'.
*some years back i'm ok now thanks


----------



## alex_ (Jul 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> The Oil industry? Gold mining? Both destroy communities and environment.



The children’s toy industry probably kills people, are you saying that there is some sort of equivalence between the oil, gold and global drugs trade ?

Alex


----------



## alcopop (Jul 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> The Oil industry? Gold mining? Both destroy communities and environment.


both of which are legal


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 30, 2018)

alcopop said:


> both of which are legal



I was responding to this comment by Alex:



> I think you’d have to go to some effort to find another *industry* anywhere near as blood soaked as cocaine producers.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 30, 2018)

alex_ said:


> The children’s toy industry probably kills people, are you saying that there is some sort of equivalence between the oil, gold and global drugs trade ?
> 
> Alex



I used them as examples of industries that are blood soaked. Your post was that it would be difficult to find an industry as blood soaked cocaine trade.

I mentioned two. You have just added another. 

Oil industry I could argue is more blood soaked if one thinks, as I do , that Iraq war was linked to importance of region for oil production. How many have died in that conflict?


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2018)

alex_ said:


> At least there are initiatives to fix this, and eg smart phone manufacturers are doing something about it.
> 
> I think you’d have to go to some effort to find another industry anywhere near as blood soaked as cocaine producers.
> 
> Alex


The point being: it's hard to get too far up on your high horse about consumer-choice morals when we've all got blood on our hands.


----------



## alex_ (Jul 31, 2018)

editor said:


> The point being: it's hard to get too far up on your high horse about consumer-choice morals when we've all got blood on our hands.



So because I get the bus and therefore cause fossil fuel to be used I’m morally equivalent to a cocaine user ?

Alex


----------



## CH1 (Jul 31, 2018)

alex_ said:


> At least there are initiatives to fix this, and eg smart phone manufacturers are doing something about it.


I am curious about this. I thought the primary problem here was Coltan (Tantalite) mined in places like the Congo by warring warlords who combined with aberrant groups like thew Lords Resistance Army habitually rape and pillage and make life hell for people, particularly women and children.

So what are Apple Samsung etc doing to mitigate the evils of their tantalum capacitors? (I know this is a bit off-topic for a Brixgton thread- but I would like to be told)


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Jul 31, 2018)

Sorry to interrupt all these important discussions with some local chit chat trivia.

But can someone please point me towards a thread or the posts that talk about the strange anonymous notes that get posted up in and around Brixton about the recordings of 100+ mph winds? Handwritten notes, sometimes don’t get seen for years, then loads of them all over the place. I think editor posted about them recently with some photos?

TIA

We need a “find-a-thread” thread really.


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jul 31, 2018)

I posted this on the Kennington thread, but for Oval people who overlap with Brixton: Just to let everyone know that Surrey County Cricket Club (who run The Oval Cricket Ground) will be sharing their proposals for the current Ovalhouse site at Ovalhouse, tomorrow, 1st August, 4pm - 8pm. There will be sketch schemes of their plans, a representative from Rolfe Judd, (local architects), members of SCCC and also someone from Ovalhouse (not me, alas). SCCC are the preferred bidders for our site at the Oval, and the sale of our site will enable our new theatre in Brixton. Local residents and businesses, do drop in, all welcome.

(They have leafletted the local area)


----------



## alex_ (Jul 31, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I am curious about this. I thought the primary problem here was Coltan (Tantalite) mined in places like the Congo by warring warlords who combined with aberrant groups like thew Lords Resistance Army habitually rape and pillage and make life hell for people, particularly women and children.
> 
> So what are Apple Samsung etc doing to mitigate the evils of their tantalum capacitors? (I know this is a bit off-topic for a Brixgton thread- but I would like to be told)



Apple have a supplier responsibility report - it says what they are doing about conflict manuals

I can’t seem to find los zetas equivalent.

Alex


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Sorry to interrupt all these important discussions with some local chit chat trivia.
> 
> But can someone please point me towards a thread or the posts that talk about the strange anonymous notes that get posted up in and around Brixton about the recordings of 100+ mph winds? Handwritten notes, sometimes don’t get seen for years, then loads of them all over the place. I think editor posted about them recently with some photos?
> 
> ...


I wrote about the person here: The human hurricane recorder returns to Brixton Road, south London


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

alex_ said:


> So because I get the bus and therefore cause fossil fuel to be used I’m morally equivalent to a cocaine user ?
> 
> Alex


That's quite the stupidest argument I've read today.


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Apple have a supplier responsibility report - it says what they are doing about conflict manuals


And yet: Apple admits human rights violations in supply chain double in a year


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

Some great street shots here: 












Brixton People – street photography by Vic Chapman


----------



## cuppa tee (Jul 31, 2018)

editor said:


> I wrote about the person here: The human hurricane recorder returns to Brixton Road, south London



There is a new one now posting typewritten essays on esoteric matters in bus stops....I will try and get a pic later....and let's not forget the Instagram notes for strangers cat who is v prolific...



editor said:


> That's quite the stupidest argument I've read today.



It's still early


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> It's still early


The strangers quotes are all over London and a bit too self promoting for my tastes.


cuppa tee said:


> It's still early


That's true but the bar has been set pretty high.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jul 31, 2018)

editor said:


> The strangers quotes are all over London and a bit too self promoting for my tastes.


Agreed, some are smug and v irritating wish I had a sharpie to respond withsometimes


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Jul 31, 2018)

editor said:


> I wrote about the person here: The human hurricane recorder returns to Brixton Road, south London




Thank you editor. Much appreciated.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Jul 31, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> There is a new one now posting typewritten essays on esoteric matters in bus stops....I will try and get a pic later....and let's not forget the Instagram notes for strangers cat who is v prolific...
> 
> 
> 
> It's still early




I’d love to see those. Tag me when you post a pic please


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> There is a new one now posting typewritten essays on esoteric matters in bus stops...


Fancy grabbing a few pics so I can make it into a Buzz feature?


----------



## cuppa tee (Jul 31, 2018)

editor said:


> Fancy grabbing a few pics so I can make it into a Buzz feature?



Will have a try when I take dog out later.....


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

bimble said:


> Stupid of Kahn to add in the 'middle class' bit, had he just said that cocaine is the most unethical thing you can buy might possibly have caused one or 2 people to think about it.


Good piece here: 



> Yes, in the 1980s taking cocaine was too expensive for the average punter. It was a drug for the privileged, the famous and the mates of those former armed robbers who had run off to Spain and started smuggling it. But, for two decades, cocaine's price has been falling, and it's now more likely to be used in the Dog and Duck or a university bar than at some artsy dinner party in Hampstead. If the spokespeople of British law enforcement want to harass anyone for keeping the coke trade flush, blame young people, pub-going 9-5ers and homeless speed-ballers, not Nigella Lawson. Of course, blaming plasterers for having an after work line in the pub probably isn't going to play too well.





> Forget the ignorance for one moment; the reason that parroting this tenuous link between middle class coke snorters and street violence is so damaging is that it deliberately obscures the real driver of these tragic killings: inequality, austerity and prejudice; of children being kicked out of school and left to fend for themselves on the streets; where victims and perpetrators come from the same claustrophobic communities in which opportunities are scarce and where life is so tough and blinkered that small disputes swiftly escalate into deadly bloodshed.
> 
> Yes, cocaine users are complicit in the drug trade. But pointing the finger at cocaine snorters, whoever they may be, as the people to blame for the rise in bloodshed of young people on London's streets has a whiff of negligence to me. If Sadiq Khan and the rest really want to prevent more street killings, maybe it's time to get to the root cause by helping London's most vulnerable young people, rather than trying to score kudos points in some nonsensical game of PR



Blaming Middle Class Coke Users for Street Murders Is PR Nonsense


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

A few pics from Sat night at the Dogstar 

















In photos: Brixton Buzz party at the Brixton Dogstar, Sat 28th 2018


----------



## CH1 (Jul 31, 2018)

editor said:


> Good piece here:
> Blaming Middle Class Coke Users for Street Murders Is PR Nonsense


Speaking as one totally out of the loop on cocaine and crack I am now thoroughly confused. Surely most of the stabbing victims are Grade A students who never did anything wrong? That seems to be the narrative whenever a killing takes place.

As regards the benefits of cocaine, I have never had the pleasure. I did once have the disconcerting experience of a druggie wanting to know what I was on, and where could he get it on a Sunday evening train from Ely to Kings Cross (nearly 20 years ago). I was I confess ravingly high but this was a "natural" result of my condition which lithium was not quite keeping under control. 

It intrigues me how those of us who have had mental disturbance take drugs to alleviate the condition - whereas others who find their life too drab are prepared to pay criminals to induce the very disperceptions we are trying to get rid of.

Hogarth's Gin Lane is a fine moral painting about the social disintegration caused by strong alcohol. Maybe someone will do similar for cocaine?


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

Anyone spotted this stuff around Brixton? 






It's supposed to be really good. 

A new and realistic vegan 'butter' is coming to a Sainsbury's chiller near you


----------



## cuppa tee (Jul 31, 2018)

editor said:


> Fancy grabbing a few pics so I can make it into a Buzz feature?


On closer inspection these turned out to be bus stop spam. Sorry .


----------



## alex_ (Jul 31, 2018)

editor said:


> And yet: Apple admits human rights violations in supply chain double in a year



So not tracking it would be better ?



editor said:


> That's quite the stupidest argument I've read today.



I agree, I’m summarising your argument.

Alex


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2018)

alex_ said:


> So not tracking it would be better ?
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, I’m summarising your argument.


You are truly king of the fallacious arguments today. Lord of the straw men. Well done. 

If you want a proper discussion, stop posting up such fucking ridiculous nonsense.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 31, 2018)

editor said:


> Anyone spotted this stuff around Brixton?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We were talking about this the other day on the vegan thread. I haven't seen it yet but I do want to try it....

Veganism, new and old Vegans, info, support and recipes


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 31, 2018)

bimble said:


> I've got personal history with this stuff and some very strong feelings about it as a result. On the class /money thing though, having spent time in the many CA 12 step groups around this area* where powder & crack are not differentiated, those meetings have the most diverse cross section of local people you could ever find in one room at the same time and all talking about the same thing really. Of course some people had ended up with their kids taken into care and selling sex whilst some just lost their jobs wives houses etc but the best thing about it was everyone listening to each other with respect & understanding the commonality of the shared experience of this shitty drug. I don't think it makes much sense to treat them as separate things as most people who get into trouble move between them to 'economise'.
> *some years back i'm ok now thanks



Thanks for sharing this personal testimony.

I know I have addictive tendencies. After drink problem when younger I have kept the away from serious drinking. But still probably drink more units then I should over week. I also used to like slot machines. I tend to avoid drugs. Not from moral reasons. But because I know my personality enough to be wary.

Addictions take many forms. I know someone who loves to gamble. He has it under control. So doesn't lose home and wife.

A lot of people with addictive personalities learn to ration there addictions and or stop some. I include myself in that.

Gambling imo opinion is up there with Coke. With smart phones one can gamble all day. Internet has made it easier. Its not something one hears about so much as its legal. ( Well gambling firms have relocated to Gibraltar to avoid tax. As Gibraltar has reinvented itself as tax haven).

If people want to complain about drugs then gambling, a legal addiction ,is almost as bad in effects it has on individuals and there families.


----------



## bimble (Aug 1, 2018)

Could happily go on a massive diversion about this, for instance I personally don't agree that there's such a thing as addictive personality (that some people are born with and is fixed). Its complicated but mostly i reckon the rat park model makes the most sense. Agree about gambling, never something i've been interested in but lots of crossover for sure.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 1, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Check out this pair of cunts and their views on which areas of London are dangerous....they do get around to Brixton...but you may have smashed your computer before you hear what they have to say...




Those twats made the paper....

YouTubers accused of racism after dissecting dangerous parts of London | Metro News


----------



## CH1 (Aug 1, 2018)

bimble said:


> Could happily go on a massive diversion about this, for instance I personally don't agree that there's such a thing as addictive personality (that some people are born with and is fixed). Its complicated but mostly i reckon the rat park model makes the most sense. Agree about gambling, never something i've been interested in but lots of crossover for sure.


Intriguing. I am interested in smoking (cigarette) behaviour.
I apparently can smoke or give up smoking with ease - I just concentrate on the price.
Other people I know do all sorts of diversions like patches, vaping etc yet always relapse.
Professor Rat Park seems to be suggesting that the true cause of smoking may be boredom!


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Those twats made the paper....
> 
> YouTubers accused of racism after dissecting dangerous parts of London | Metro News


What a bunch of cunts: 


> The vloggers offended when they admitted to feeling ‘scared’ when visiting Whitechapel, east London but added that they quickly ‘realised’ that residents in head scarfs ‘are just normal people’.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 1, 2018)

editor said:


> What a bunch of cunts:



The whole vlog was full of stuff like that...


----------



## teuchter (Aug 1, 2018)

There's quite a lot of stuff like that on youtube; see this about Elephant for example


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> The whole vlog was full of stuff like that...


I'm not sure whats worse: ignorant look-how-edgy-we-are 'explorers' posting up a load of bollocks about how dangerous a perfectly normal area is or smug middle class cunts doing a piece about how a rough area is now all nicely gentrified with lovely coffee shops and boutiques and nice safe wonderful things to spend your money on.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 1, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm not sure whats worse: ignorant look-how-edgy-we-are 'explorers' posting up a load of bollocks about how dangerous a perfectly normal area is or smug middle class cunts doing  a piece about how a rough area is now all nicely gentrified with lovely coffee shops and boutiques and nice safe wonderful things to spend your money on.



Both as cunty as each other...


----------



## aka (Aug 1, 2018)

editor said:


> What a bunch of cunts:


There is no reason to visit Lewisham.  So they got that right.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 1, 2018)

aka said:


> There is no reason to visit Lewisham.  So they got that right.



Lewisham People's Day is great...


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2018)

There's no question she can sing but these 'look at my vocal range' moments are horrendous.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Aug 1, 2018)

Quoting DJWrongspeed from the Dec 2017 thread....



> Anyone been to Soul Proprietors , the new record shop on Elm Park Road. Wow it's really got something for everyone. Great selection. Rare ones are expensive but there still plenty of good deals. It was actually busy ! more people than Pure Vinyl in the centre of Brixton.



I went in there today and had a quick word with Nick who runs the shop. He says he’s making ends meet, and things are going alright. I’m delighted that new vinyl shops are opening up, even if they’re swelling old vinyl.

He’s got a great selection, I had a good time browsing through the stacks. And he’s happy to spin a disc for you too.

And a coffee boutique just opened on that parade last week. I’m sure that will do well too. Fingers crossed that the barber shop and the small independent convenience store won’t be priced out though.

And there’s an old style post office there! The more people continue to use the local post offices the more likely they are to survive.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Aug 1, 2018)

editor said:


> There's no question she can sing but these 'look at my vocal range' moments are horrendous.





I was going to catch my bus outside of H&M and she was singing away but by some trick of acoustics it just sounded like some kind of awful din. A lot of folk were looking back with very puzzled faces and then realising it was her. Then saying to the next person who was trying to work out what the noise was “It’s that singer, the one who sings like Whitney/Mariah...”

She’s a bit flat sometimes, which really doesn’t help.


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2018)

SheilaNaGig said:


> I was going to catch my bus outside of H&M and she was singing away but by some trick of acoustics it just sounded like some kind of awful din. A lot of folk were looking back with very puzzled faces and then realising it was her. Then saying to the next person who was trying to work out what the noise was “It’s that singer, the one who sings like Whitney/Mariah...”
> 
> She’s a bit flat sometimes, which really doesn’t help.


Outrageously flat too, usually when she's hitting peak "LISTEN TO MY AMAZING RANGE" volume. There's a good singer in there, but her cod-operatic showcase trills make my teeth grate. Quite a few  locals traders/shop staff can't bear her as it all gets too much on the 25th listen.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Aug 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Those twats made the paper....
> 
> YouTubers accused of racism after dissecting dangerous parts of London | Metro News




Christ I hate fuckers like this. Why the fuck come live in London if it scares you so much. Fuck off back to safe-town you boring self satisfied fools, take your tales of being on an urban safari back to your beige Sunday supplement lives and leave us the fuck alone.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Aug 2, 2018)

editor said:


> Outrageously flat too, usually when she's hitting peak "LISTEN TO MY AMAZING RANGE" volume. There's a good singer in there, but her cod-operatic showcase trills make my teeth grate. Quite a few  locals traders/shop staff can't bear her as it all gets too much on the 25th listen.




Yeah, was standing with a couple of blokes who were listening to her and we decided that what she really needs is for someone who loves her to give her a bit of gentle advice.


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2018)

Windrush Square yesterday:

















In photos: African Reparation event in Windrush Square, Brixton, Weds 1st Aug 2018


----------



## theboris (Aug 3, 2018)

aka said:


> also the Kwik-Stop on Brixton Hill opp Water Lane (next to Deen's) is now kaput.  Police closure notice.  It won't be back, according to the chap in the Nisa.  More worringly Cafe On The Hill now has an 'A3 suitable - to let' sign outside.
> Brixton Hill , London  - CSJ Property Agents - South West London Property Sales & Business Rentals SW19 & SW17


Has reopened now


----------



## billythefish (Aug 3, 2018)

theboris said:


> Has reopened now


Cafe on the Hill is going to be sorely missed.


----------



## aka (Aug 3, 2018)

billythefish said:


> Cafe on the Hill is going to be sorely missed.


Not by that many people, given the dearth of custom today.  3 people (inc me) at 2pm.  Use it or lose it kids.


----------



## editor (Aug 3, 2018)

This is what Brixton has become. I mean I'm happy for them and everything but....
And Ritzy boycott. 

The Ladies From 2017’s Romantic Brixton Proposal Finally Got Married, And Here’s What Happened


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> This is what Brixton has become. I mean I'm happy for them and everything but....
> And Ritzy boycott.
> 
> The Ladies From 2017’s Romantic Brixton Proposal Finally Got Married, And Here’s What Happened


What do you mean is this was brixton has become? somewhere were lesbians feel comfortable to get married? What are you objecting to here?

I remember seeing that and wondering if she said yes - I thought it was romantic.  I like seeing the notices as I go by on the bus and always wonder about the stories behind the announcements.

The hiring of the board is organised by the staff with procedes going to their nominated charity. Nothing to do with Cineworld profits so surely it doesn't infringe the boycott.

I announced our civil partnership there as a surprise for my grlf. So she would see it as we got off the 37 bus and walked round the corner to the town hall register office. 
It raised money for an water project in Africa, shocked my partner into mumbling about sneaky I was for the rest of the day and announced our new legal status to the world. Some one we didn't know tweeted it with the comment 'why I love Brixton'  We have a framed pic of it in the living room now which always make me smile. Job done and money well spent.  I would post a pic of it but it has our names and the date on it.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> What do you mean is this was brixton has become? somewhere were lesbians feel comfortable to get married? What are you objecting to here?
> 
> I remember seeing that and wondering if she said yes - I thought it was romantic.  I like seeing the notices as I go by on the bus and always wonder about the stories behind the announcements.
> 
> ...


I don't give a fuck about their sexuality and made a point of not even mentioning it

But any couple ignoring the well publicised Ritzy boycott is never going to be celebrated in my  book.

And personally I don't like seeing the backstreets of Brixton becoming an edgy, trendy  backdrop for well off, well connected, self promoting Chelsea types. But that's just me.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 4, 2018)

Are people still boycotting the ritzy? I hadn’t noticed


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 4, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Are people still boycotting the ritzy? I hadn’t noticed



I am


----------



## snowy_again (Aug 4, 2018)

You can really sound like a judgemental prick sometimes.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> You can really sound like a judgemental prick sometimes.



Young people having fun, wedding ceremony in Chelsea, wedding reception in pop - it’s tailor made to flick his switches.

Alex


----------



## T & P (Aug 4, 2018)

Why not just ban all people of a certain social background- or wirh the wrong look or accent for that matter- from visiting Brixton at all?


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> You can really sound like a judgemental prick sometimes.


So you don't give a shit about the Ritzy boycott either then?

 I'm very much entitled to my opinion about people who don't give a fuck about the workers. Especially ones who flaunt their boycott busting activities online.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

T & P said:


> Why not just ban all people of a certain social background- or wirh the wrong look or accent for that matter- from visiting Brixton at all?


Why not post up a really stupid straw man?


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Are people still boycotting the ritzy? I hadn’t noticed


That's because you're not interested.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> That's because you're not interested.



I think it drops of people's radar. There seems a flurry of activity, even a bit of press, and then nothing for weeks.

I haven't been to the Ritzy for so long now I wouldn't be able to tell you the last time, but there's loads going on there I'd want to attend, but won't, yet I am no clearer on where things are in terms of the dispute, only that it is still going on...

...people just forget, I reckon...


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I think it drops of people's radar. There seems a flurry of activity, even a bit of press, and then nothing for weeks.
> 
> I haven't been to the Ritzy for so long now I wouldn't be able to tell you the last time, but there's loads going on there I'd want to attend, but won't, yet I am no clearer on where things are in terms of the dispute, only that it is still going on...
> 
> ...people just forget, I reckon...


I used to be a regular in the cafe but I've not spent a penny in there since the boycott was called. If they'd had more support from the community, they probably would have had this thing settled a long time ago.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Young people having fun, wedding ceremony in Chelsea, wedding reception in pop - it’s tailor made to flick his switches.
> 
> Alex


You appear to have missed out the main point: breaking a well publicised boycott. Strange, that.


----------



## T & P (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> Why not post up a really stupid straw man?


Well, it almost seems a question of time tbh. First you object to the very presence of a couple of women with posh accents at the Country Show, and now to newlyweds taking pictures of themselves on the streets of Brixton because they might be from Chelsea and the wrong social class. A bit more than a tad unfair and intolerant IMO.

And has nothing to do with the Ritzy boycott part, which is a completely separate issue- and one that I and others agree with. You appear to be increasingly hostile to the mere presence in Brixton of individuals you deem to be the wrong social or economic class, and sometimes determined by nothing more than their accent. You are perfectly entitled to that opinion of course, but shouldn’t be surprised if others find it quite wrong, and express as much.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

T & P said:


> Well, it almost seems a question of time tbh. First you object to the very presence of a couple of women with posh accents at the Country Show


Never mentioned women in posh accents at the country show at all. My actual complaint was hearing new visitors saying how they were going to_ totally win_ the competition next year. I preferred the competition when it was more amateurish and inclusive. The courgette penguin seems more in the spirit of the show than this year's  blockbuster clever-clever Karl Marx. But that's just my opinion.


T & P said:


> And has nothing to do with the Ritzy boycott part, which is a completely separate issue- and one that I and others agree with.


It has EVERYTHING to do with the Ritzy boycott.* As I have said repeatedly*. That article sends out a message that it's cool to break the boycott and stick your name up there.

But I'm not a fan of the growing inequality around Brixton.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> I don't give a fuck about their sexuality and made a point of not even mentioning it
> 
> But any couple ignoring the well publicised Ritzy boycott is never going to be celebrated in my  book.
> 
> And personally I don't like seeing the backstreets of Brixton becoming an edgy, trendy  backdrop for well off, well connected, self promoting Chelsea types. But that's just me.


 I think you are making all sorts of assumptions here. maybe they are priveledged / self promoting - I don't know them and I imagine neither do you - but I didnt read it that way all.

I see in the link that they had their ceremony in the chelsea town hall, which doesn't mean they are 'chelsea' types or from there, I got the impression they were south londoners who love Brixton. The first gay couple I knew to get hitched lived on Brixton Hill but had the ceremony in chelsea town hall too. Wasn't there some gay history associated with the old town hall and kings road? anyway it all sounds gloriously camp to me.

I still don't think this means they have broken the boycott. I see the article you link to says half of the cash for the sign goes to the Brixton Soup Kitchen. I thought it was a 100% to charity when we did it in 2013, but I might have been mistaken. You state so firmly that this breaks the boycott, but I'd be more interested to hear what Ritzy staff have to say.
Cineworld may own the Ritzy now - and I am not a fan and wouldn't break the boycott myself - but it is still a brixton landmark, it used to be ours. It's a building historically linked with women-only/lesbian all nighters.  I mean who wouldn't want their notice on the sign that famously said THATCHER IS DEAD?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> self promoting


 seems everyone is self promoting now - isn't that what all young people do? now its all twitter this and web that - I really don't know why people want to share so much on line.   I don't understand it all, and it may not be to my taste -  but what is so particularly objectionable about it?


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I still don't think this means they have broken the boycott. I see the article you link to says half of the cash for the sign goes to the Brixton Soup Kitchen. I thought it was a 100% to charity when we did it in 2013, but I might have been mistaken. You state so firmly that this breaks the boycott, but I'd be more interested to hear what Ritzy staff have to say.
> Cineworld may own the Ritzy now - and I am not a fan and wouldn't break the boycott myself - but it is still a brixton landmark, it used to be ours. It's a building historically linked with women-only/lesbian all nighters.  I mean who wouldn't want their notice on the sign that famously said THATCHER IS DEAD?


I agree with all that and it's a crying shame that the Ritzy has been taken away from us, and that so few people appear to care about the staff's struggle. 

But - to me - uncritically celebrating the Ritzy is breaking the spirit of the boycott, and it gives out a loud message: it's cool to deal with the Ritzy. Shame.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> But I'm not a fan of the growing inequality around Brixton.


 Neither am I. But is sniping about trivial things like this the way change things? 



editor said:


> I agree with all that and it's a crying shame that the Ritzy has been taken away from us, and that so few people appear to care about the staff's struggle.
> 
> But - to me - uncritically celebrating the Ritzy is breaking the spirit of the boycott, and it gives out a loud message: it's cool to deal with the Ritzy. Shame.


 lets ask the Ritzy staff about that. And I wonder what the Brixton Soup Kitchen thinks if it is receiving money from the notices.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> seems everyone is self promoting now - isn't that what all young people do? now its all twitter this and web that - I really don't know why people want to share so much on line.   I don't understand it all, and it may not be to my taste -  but what is so particularly objectionable about it?


I never said it was particularly objectionable - I said I was happy for them in my post., But I've started my reasons why the article doesn't fill my heart with joy. It was just a passing thought.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> Never mentioned women in posh accents at the country show at all. My actual complaint was hearing new visitors saying how they were going to_ totally win_ the competition next year. I preferred the competition when it was more amateurish and inclusive. The courgette penguin seems more in the spirit of the show than this year's  blockbuster clever-clever Karl Marx. But that's just my opinion.



You used the word posh twice, once prefaced by twat.

It’s pretty clear that your issue is with people you perceive as having a posh accent, whatever that is.

You also said “I so wished he'd fuck off from whence he came.”

If I’d substituted an ethnic group or race for posh into that post i’d rightly be banned.

Alex


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Neither am I. But is sniping about trivial things like this the way change things?
> 
> lets ask the Ritzy staff about that. And I wonder what the Brixton Soup Kitchen thinks if it is receiving money from the notices.


I'm sure they're happy about it. Why shouldn't the be? They were happy when we were giving them money from our beer. 

But to repeat myself for the last time: I find it a shame to see the Ritzy being uncritically celebrated in this manner. That's my personal opinion. If you're fine with it, great.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

alex_ said:


> If I’d substituted an ethnic group or race for posh into that post i’d rightly be banned.


That's off the scale stupid. It's about class and privilege and has _absolutely nothing_ to do with race.   

And stop stripping all the context from my comments to try and make cheap points. It's pathetic.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> That's off the scale stupid. It's about class and privilege and has _absolutely nothing_ to do with race.
> 
> And stop stripping all the context from my comments to try and make cheap points. It's pathetic.



How on earth can you tell how privileged they are ?

I assume they were lighting cigars with 50 pound notes ?

Alex


----------



## discobastard (Aug 4, 2018)

alex_ said:


> How on earth can you tell how privileged they are ?
> 
> I assume they were lighting cigars with 50 pound notes ?
> 
> Alex


There’s never any comment on what posh *actually* means, just that *they* are all cunts, even though we know nothing of these people’s history or income.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

discobastard said:


> There’s never any comment on what posh *actually* means, just that *they* are all cunts, even though we know nothing of these people’s history or income.


Oh, I see you've belatedly popped in to try and stir the pot with some pointless gibberish that bears no relation to what was actually said. Well done. Zzzzz


----------



## discobastard (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> Oh, I see you've belatedly popped in to try and stir the pot with some pointless gibberish that bears no relation to what was actually said. Well done. Zzzzz


Nonsense.  People get judged (often quite harshly) on the basis of something they say, something they choose to eat or drink, where they choose to live.  When nothing is known about their background, income, political views.  I find that odd.

And newsflash, there are LOTS of people that know *nothing* about the Ritzy protests.  And why should they know anything about it?  They don't represent the very vocal (and probably relatively small) minority here, and presumably have lots of other things going on in their lives.  Not everybody can give a shit about everything you give a shit about.  That's not to say they don't or wouldn't care if they did know about it.  Or perhaps they do know about it and have weighed up the evidence and decided its somebody else's struggle.  You have no idea what they think.  And so painting people as not caring is a total fallacy.

Oh, and you're mistaking 'having a considered opinion' for 'stirring the pot'.  You're always banging on about ad hominems; you're far from innocent in that yourself.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Nonsense.  People get judged (often quite harshly) on the basis of something they say, something they choose to eat or drink, where they choose to live.  When nothing is known about their background, income, political views.  I find that odd.
> 
> And newsflash, there are LOTS of people that know *nothing* about the Ritzy protests.  And why should they know anything about it?  They don't represent the very vocal (and probably relatively small) minority here, and presumably have lots of other things going on in their lives.  Not everybody can give a shit about everything you give a shit about.  That's not to say they don't or wouldn't care if they did know about it.  Or perhaps they do know about it and have weighed up the evidence and decided its somebody else's struggle.  You have no idea what they think.  And so painting people as not caring is a total fallacy.
> 
> Oh, and you're mistaking 'having a considered opinion' for 'stirring the pot'.  You're always banging on about ad hominems; you're far from innocent in that yourself.


I can't be bothered with his. At no point have I ever said that _all_ posh people are cunts. Not once. You're just making stuff up to try and score points. It's sad, really.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 4, 2018)

editor said:


> Where did I call_ all_ posh people cunts? Go on. Back up your pitiful lies otherwise you really are just a little shit stirrer with nothing better to do.



No, you called them twats only because their accents were posh.

Alex


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2018)

alex_ said:


> No, you called them twats only because their accents were posh.
> 
> Alex


Try rereading what I wrote FFS.  Jeez.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 4, 2018)

discobastard said:


> And newsflash, there are LOTS of people that know *nothing* about the Ritzy protests.  And why should they know anything about it?  They don't represent the very vocal (and probably relatively small) minority here, and presumably have lots of other things going on in their lives.  Not everybody can give a shit about everything you give a shit about.  That's not to say they don't or wouldn't care if they did know about it.*  Or perhaps they do know about it and have weighed up the evidence and decided its somebody else's struggle.*  You have no idea what they think.  And so painting people as not caring is a total fallacy.



The highlighted section. Im not clear what you mean considering the last two sentences. Are you saying that people who have weighed evidence and don't boycott Ritzy are caring?


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Are people still boycotting the ritzy? I hadn’t noticed



You have been to Ritzy recently?


----------



## MissL (Aug 5, 2018)

Re: Ritzy there’s little solidarity these days unfortunately. Maybe we are too many, too fragmented, too comfortable to think we’ll ever need it in return, too disillusioned to think it’s effective. I love the Ritzy. I love the bar at the Ritzy. But I won’t go there at the moment. I wish others felt the same the same but I guess they don’t.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 5, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> You have been to Ritzy recently?


I haven’t, but only because there’s been nothing on I want to see. I have popped into the bar a couple of times though. 

How about you? Seen any good films recently?


----------



## happyshopper (Aug 5, 2018)

Given all this discussion here, would it be possible to get an update on the Picturehouse dispute? Is there a helpful link?

However, what the dispute has reminded me is how easy it is to get to the West End from Brixton. So who needs the Ritzy?


----------



## ricbake (Aug 5, 2018)

Tribunal finds that Ritzy reps were unfairly dismissed - BECTU

Union Claims Partial Victory in Dispute With U.K. Theater Chain Picturehouse


----------



## happyshopper (Aug 5, 2018)

Thanks. The key words seem to be "ongoing dispute".


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 5, 2018)

discobastard said:


> There’s never any comment on what posh *actually* means, just that *they* are all cunts, even though we know nothing of these people’s history or income.


 Its all part of 'people from outside Brixton move to Brixton' shocker. I'm not from Brixton as I'm sure a lot of people on these boards are not either. It's taken a while, but I feel welcome here now.

These small skirmishes about the behavior of indivuals in Brixton, or who is posh, annoy me. Who are we (ie anyone on urban) to make judgements about others? Who are we to say who is welcome? or that they are enjoying themselves in the wrong way?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 5, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Nonsense.  People get judged (often quite harshly) on the basis of something they say, something they choose to eat or drink, where they choose to live.  When nothing is known about their background, income, political views.  I find that odd.
> 
> And newsflash, there are LOTS of people that know *nothing* about the Ritzy protests.  And why should they know anything about it?  They don't represent the very vocal (and probably relatively small) minority here, and presumably have lots of other things going on in their lives.  Not everybody can give a shit about everything you give a shit about.  That's not to say they don't or wouldn't care if they did know about it.  Or perhaps they do know about it and have weighed up the evidence and decided its somebody else's struggle.  You have no idea what they think.  And so painting people as not caring is a total fallacy.



You are right its hard to care about everything. What about winning the living wage eveywhere else? - what about carers working their socks off for minimum wage, what about the companies sucking the life out of people with zero hours contracts? or destorying our planet? What about the millions fleeing war? What about the millions of homeless and precariously housed? or made destitute by our social security system? It is disingenuous to pretend that anyone can care 100% about everything, all the time. Most of us have to make hard choices about our personal piorities.

Now it feels like many people have no understanding of unionism at all, it was Thatcher's aim to destroy the power of unions and in many respects she has won.  Re education is needed and I'm not sure how to go about that, though it needs to come from the unions who seem more concerned with selling me cheap insurance than protecting employment rights.

I think the Ritzy workers have done quite well in having visible strikes and having won some media interest and support from other unions - like the screen writers union (I think) who have refused to hold premieres at Cineworld.  It's a shame that so few people are in unions, or understand what industrial action means, and have no shame in crossing a picket line. I wonder how many people going by even know that when ever that board outside is blank it means the Ritzy workers are on strike?


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

alcopop said:


> I haven’t, but only because there’s been nothing on I want to see. I have popped into the bar a couple of times though.
> 
> How about you? Seen any good films recently?



I take it you're not boycotting Ritzy in that case.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

discobastard said:


> And newsflash, there are LOTS of people that know *nothing* about the Ritzy protests.  And why should they know anything about it?  They don't represent the very vocal (and probably relatively small) minority here, and presumably have lots of other things going on in their livesf.



You are one of the posters quick to have a go at Ed. Ed has done a lot to publicise the dispute on Brixton Buzz and organised fundraisers through Offline Club.

So through Eds work he has done a lot more than some who come on Brixton boards to publicise and support the campaign.

To add. I have plenty of things going on in my life. I don't know what you mean by vocal minority.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Aug 5, 2018)

A woman in her 20's was killed in Clapham Rd today.  Police are appealing for witnesses.	

Appeal following fatal collision in Lambeth


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 5, 2018)

Posh people are cunts. So are musicians. It just is.


----------



## BoxRoom (Aug 5, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> A woman in her 20's was killed in Clapham Rd today.  Police are appealing for witnesses.
> 
> Appeal following fatal collision in Lambeth


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2018)

alcopop said:


> I haven’t, but only because there’s been nothing on I want to see. I have popped into the bar a couple of times though.
> 
> How about you? Seen any good films recently?


I'm not even slightly surprised to see your lack of support for the workers and admitting to breaking the boycott and spending your money there.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2018)

MissL said:


> Re: Ritzy there’s little solidarity these days unfortunately. Maybe we are too many, too fragmented, too comfortable to think we’ll ever need it in return, too disillusioned to think it’s effective. I love the Ritzy. I love the bar at the Ritzy. But I won’t go there at the moment. I wish others felt the same the same but I guess they don’t.


I find the lack of solidarity in Brixton heartbreaking. And there definitely was a time where more people would have got involved, but the changing demographic appears to have put paid to that. 

I'll never forget the sight of a group of guys laughing and drinking in the Ritzy outside drinking area while a huge demonstration against the venue was taking place _right in front of them_. They had no interest in supporting the workers or even listening to their arguments.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 5, 2018)

editor said:


> I can't be bothered with his. At no point have I ever said that _all_ posh people are cunts. Not once. You're just making stuff up to try and score points. It's sad, really.


You know what paraphrasing is.  Why not respond to the post rather than pick on a detail and then ask for me to hunt out your quotes.  You shut down arguments/opinions with that every time.  But don't respond to the main thrust of the post.  

My only comment on your pre-edit post as quoted by Alex is to ask whether you would rather I didn't post alternative viewpoints on what is, after all, a discussion forum.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

Ive said previously that I was not that keen on boycott idea for Ritzy. I'm doing it.

I used to know the staff and chat to them. Know I don't go lost that contact. Which I think is not good for campaign.

A other thing is more broader issue. Ive used Ritzy since back when it was just the Ritzy. Like I used places like Scala. When cinema was cheap. People like me kept cinemas going back then.

The Ritzy multiplex was built with post riot money to help deal with the inner city problem as it was called. Ritzy changed hands but I still went. With the changing demographic of Brixton new owners Cineworld cut a lot of the off peak cheap times. The knew they could still get punters in from the new demographic changes to in we cities.

I remember a staff member asking me why I wasn't going to Ritzy so often. Told them it was price chsnges. They said a lot of old timers had stopped due to increased cost. They weren't happy about it. The very people who kept cinemas going previously were forgotten. No longer needed.

What has happened to Ritzy is why I resent what has happened to Brixton.

I have no problems with new people. What I resent is being priced out to be replaced by them.

Seeing recent posts on this thread I'm glad I'm in Loughborough Junction. Hopefully this won't come up my way.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 5, 2018)

discobastard said:


> *Or perhaps they do know about it and have weighed up the evidence and decided its somebody else's struggle.  You have no idea what they think.  And so painting people as not caring is a total fallacy.*





Gramsci said:


> The highlighted section. Im not clear what you mean considering the last two sentences. Are you saying that people who have weighed evidence and don't boycott Ritzy are caring?



I'm saying, as friendofdorothy posted (and I hope I represent what she said properly) that there are countless injustices going on and that one cannot act on all of them.  It doesn't mean you don't care does it?  I'm not going into the arguments about Ritzy pay, not am I saying I don't support them btw.

You might boycott the Ritzy but still use Amazon (yes I've used this argument before), where worker pay and conditions are far far worse.  Do Amazon users who boycott the Ritzy not care about Amazon worker pay and conditions?  Why differentiate against Amazon workers?  Because they aren't local?


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

Edit


----------



## discobastard (Aug 5, 2018)

.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I'm saying, as friendofdorothy posted (and I hope I represent what she said properly) that there are countless injustices going on and that one cannot act on all of them.  It doesn't mean you don't care does it?  I'm not going into the arguments about Ritzy pay, not am I saying I don't support them btw.
> 
> You might boycott the Ritzy but still use Amazon (yes I've used this argument before), where worker pay and conditions are far far worse.  Do Amazon users who boycott the Ritzy not care about Amazon worker pay and conditions?  Why differentiate against Amazon workers?  Because they aren't local?


 
I don't use Amazon.

Not sure why you brought that up in reply to question from me asking you clarify what you mean. You appear to assume I use it. I'm pretty sure Ive never said that. And I never have used Amazon.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I'm saying, as friendofdorothy posted (and I hope I represent what she said properly) that there are countless injustices going on and that one cannot act on all of them.  It doesn't mean you don't care does it?  I'm not going into the arguments about Ritzy pay, not am I saying I don't support them btw.
> 
> You might boycott the Ritzy but still use Amazon (yes I've used this argument before), where worker pay and conditions are far far worse.  Do Amazon users who boycott the Ritzy not care about Amazon worker pay and conditions?  Why differentiate against Amazon workers?  Because they aren't local?



You haven't answered my question.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 5, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I don't use Amazon.
> 
> Not sure why you brought that up in reply to question from me asking you clarify what you mean.


That’s not my point. I never said you did. There are others on here I am sure who support Ritzy but also use Amazon. 

It’s a discussion point. But if nobody wants to discuss it and are suggesting that it’s not related then that’s fine. I just think it’s an interesting dimension to the discussion, which is after all what we’re here for is it not?  Rather than deliver a single minded rejection of everything that doesn’t fit with our world view. 

And for the record, I’m not in any way dismissing the Ritzy issue.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 5, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> You haven't answered my question.


If you like to discuss the difference between actively ‘caring’ and not ‘not caring’ then maybe we’ll come back to that.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

discobastard said:


> That’s not my point. I never said you did. There are others on here I am sure who support Ritzy but also use Amazon.
> 
> It’s a discussion point. But if nobody wants to discuss it and are suggesting that it’s not related then that’s fine. I just think it’s an interesting dimension to the discussion, which is after all what we’re here for is it not?  Rather than deliver a single minded rejection of everything that doesn’t fit with our world view.
> 
> And for the record, I’m not in any way dismissing the Ritzy issue.



I'm lost for words. Your post was aimed at me. You assumed I did.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

discobastard said:


> If you like to discuss the difference between actively ‘caring’ and not ‘not caring’ then maybe we’ll come back to that.



Not an answer.


----------



## T & P (Aug 5, 2018)

It’s worth keeping in mind that there is no actual proof the couple in question knew about the boycott at the time. We tend to forget that a great many people don’t check local current events on websites such as this.

A search on the Ritzy thread suggests  the first ramblings of a boycott emerged in February 2017, and a call for it in March, mere days before the the message was displayed on the facade  I have certainly met people who were completely unaware of it months afterwards, so it’s conjecture to conclude they knew.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2018)

The article in question

The Ladies From 2017’s Romantic Brixton Proposal Finally Got Married, And Here’s What Happened

Was written a few weeks ago. By editor in chief of the secret London website. I would have assumed that this person would have known about Ritzy dispute by now. (Them working in journalism / media.) But still puts ad for Ritzy at the of article.

This whole piece of "journalism* is an advertising piece in practice.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 6, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm not even slightly surprised to see your lack of support for the workers and admitting to breaking the boycott and spending your money there.


are you going to show your support for the workers and condemn their taxation practices by boycotting amazon?

...thought not.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 6, 2018)

T & P said:


> It’s worth keeping in mind that there is no actual proof the couple in question knew about the boycott at the time. We tend to forget that a great many people don’t check local current events on websites such as this.
> 
> A search on the Ritzy thread suggests  the first ramblings of a boycott emerged in February 2017, and a call for it in March, mere days before the the message was displayed on the facade  I have certainly met people who were completely unaware of it months afterwards, so it’s conjecture to conclude they knew.


I still want to check out if the staff also want the public not to use the sign board there as well as avoiding the films - can anyone ask any BECTU members? I hope to see an ex - ritzy worker on wed so I intend to ask then.


----------



## Southlondon (Aug 6, 2018)

alcopop said:


> are you going to show your support for the workers and condemn their taxation practices by boycotting amazon?
> 
> ...thought not.


Are Amazon workers actively in dispute and calling for a boycott? That’s the difference, the Rutzy staff are in an official dispute, and have requested a boycott. That’s by they should be bocotted, and if Amazon workers organise and put out the same call we should do the same.  I personally feel they lacked experienced union support to better publicise the boycott, but thinking of the big historic trade union backed disputes of the past - grunwick, garners even the miners strike, which were defeated by the resilience of the bosses and the eventual lack of wider movement support for the long haul battle, I’m not sure even if there had been more persistent activity it would have made much difference. Solidarity is difficult to generate these days.  to  be fair to the people breaking the boycott, I’m sure many were doing so unwittingly as  they’re not crossing a picket line or being handed leaflets as they approach the cinema. That is how the local supporters of the staff could have helped to reduce income to the company. Long duration disputes need a pool of committed activists that maintain consistent pressure. Chatting on line in forums and sharing photos of the occasional pickets isn’t what wins disputes. There’s nothing to stop supporters organising flash pickets , or managing a rota of supporters to ensure that no one enters that cinema without knowing they’re breaking a boycott. They had some success with the dispute but I think it’s simply run out of steam.


----------



## ricbake (Aug 6, 2018)

T & P said:


> A search on the Ritzy thread suggests  the first ramblings of a boycott emerged in February 2017, and a call for it in March, mere days before the the message was displayed on the facade  I have certainly met people who were completely unaware of it months afterwards, so it’s conjecture to conclude they knew.



I think you will find mention of the boycott back as far as early 2014


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 6, 2018)

ricbake said:


> I think you will find mention of the boycott back as far as early 2014


Was that a request from the BECTU staff? or just locals?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 6, 2018)

I find it easy to 'boycott the Ritzy' as its so expensive. What little custom I have, as I don't go the pictures much these days, I take elsewhere. Which is a shame as the Ritzy on my doorstep and I've been going there for over 30years


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2018)

alcopop said:


> are you going to show your support for the workers and condemn their taxation practices by boycotting amazon?
> 
> ...thought not.


Are Amazon workers actively calling for a boycott? If not, your post is ignorant, ridiculous gibberish.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I'm saying, as friendofdorothy posted (and I hope I represent what she said properly) that there are countless injustices going on and that one cannot act on all of them.  It doesn't mean you don't care does it?  I'm not going into the arguments about Ritzy pay, not am I saying I don't support them btw.
> 
> You might boycott the Ritzy but still use Amazon (yes I've used this argument before), where worker pay and conditions are far far worse.  Do Amazon users who boycott the Ritzy not care about Amazon worker pay and conditions?  Why differentiate against Amazon workers?  Because they aren't local?


So your argument is: don't bother supporting a boycott by local workers because you might be using services by workers elsewhere who have it worse (even though they've not asked people to boycott their services). So don't support any industrial action by anyone, and you just carry on doing as you please.

That's a nice handy argument that leaves you free to enjoy the Ritzy whenever it suits you, isn't it?


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Was that a request from the BECTU staff? or just locals?


Strike action has been ongoing since April 2014 and has had plenty of publicity from the start. This is just a few headline from 2014:

Irvine Welsh adds support to Brixton Ritzy workers ahead of Friday’s strike
Mayor Boris Johnson urged to intervene in Ritzy cinema pay row
Will Self urges Londoners to boycott the Brixton Ritzy and all Picturehouse cinemas


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I find it easy to 'boycott the Ritzy' as its so expensive. What little custom I have, as I don't go the pictures much these days, I take elsewhere. Which is a shame as the Ritzy on my doorstep and I've been going there for over 30years


I used to like going to the cafe there. It was one of my favourite places to work and I knew loads of the staff and customers so it was always friendly. I miss it.


----------



## ricbake (Aug 6, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Was that a request from the BECTU staff? or just locals?





friendofdorothy said:


> A lot of talk about boycotting the Ritzy on this thread - surely we should only do this if the staff call for it.





Gramsci said:


> Fozzie Bear brought up issue of boycott on the Free Entry to a film thread.
> 
> I messaged Ritzy on FB and they came back to say that their position has changed now that Cineworld/ Picturehouse have pulled out of talks and imposed a 4% pay rise.
> 
> *Ritzy workers are now calling for a boycott of Picturehouse cinemas.*





editor said:


> The boycott is on!
> Striking Brixton Ritzy workers call for boycott of all Picturehouse cinemas


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2018)

And here as well: Brixton Ritzy strike, day two – photos from Windrush Square

The strikes have had plenty of coverage from the start, both local and London-wide (as well as some national press).


----------



## alcopop (Aug 6, 2018)

Southlondon said:


> Are Amazon workers actively in dispute and calling for a boycott? That’s the difference, the Rutzy staff are in an official dispute, and have requested a boycott. That’s by they should be bocotted, and if Amazon workers organise and put out the same call we should do the same.  I personally feel they lacked experienced union support to better publicise the boycott, but thinking of the big historic trade union backed disputes of the past - grunwick, garners even the miners strike, which were defeated by the resilience of the bosses and the eventual lack of wider movement support for the long haul battle, I’m not sure even if there had been more persistent activity it would have made much difference. Solidarity is difficult to generate these days.  to  be fair to the people breaking the boycott, I’m sure many were doing so unwittingly as  they’re not crossing a picket line or being handed leaflets as they approach the cinema. That is how the local supporters of the staff could have helped to reduce income to the company. Long duration disputes need a pool of committed activists that maintain consistent pressure. Chatting on line in forums and sharing photos of the occasional pickets isn’t what wins disputes. There’s nothing to stop supporters organising flash pickets , or managing a rota of supporters to ensure that no one enters that cinema without knowing they’re breaking a boycott. They had some success with the dispute but I think it’s simply run out of steam.


Amazon Boycott Unites Workers, Gamers, Shoppers For Prime Day Protest


----------



## alcopop (Aug 6, 2018)

editor said:


> Are Amazon workers actively calling for a boycott? If not, your post is ignorant, ridiculous gibberish.


Amazon Boycott Unites Workers, Gamers, Shoppers For Prime Day Protest

And if they are then presumably you are a ridiculously ignorant gibberer?


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Amazon Boycott Unites Workers, Gamers, Shoppers For Prime Day Protest
> 
> And if they are then presumably you are a ridiculously ignorant gibberer?


Have you even read the words in the article? It was a ONE DAY boycott earlier this year. 

Instead of pursuing this ridiculous line of ad hominems and red herrings, why don't you just do the right thing and support the boycott of the Ritzy?


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2018)

Coming to  the ground floor of (barf) 'Crib 5'



> This September sees the opening of a brand new *F45 Fitness Studio in Brixton*. The studio was conceived of, organised and funded on the other side of the world by one of the most up and coming Girl Bosses of Australia, Yemi Penn. Born and bred in London's Brixton, Yemi has taught over a thousand fitness classes in the UK, Japan and even to the US Military, however when she recently visited London she knew she had to come back to support the local health and fitness movement on her home turf.
> 
> Already a huge success in Australia, F45 is the world’s fastest growing fitness franchise concepts with over 1,150 studios across 36 countries. The F45 Brixton studio will be the cornerstone of the community and Yemi is currently seeking government funding to help her run a community outreach programme which will start by offering a number of community classes during non-peak hours every day.
> 
> ...


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 6, 2018)

editor said:


> Strike action has been ongoing since April 2014 and has had plenty of publicity from the start. This is just a few headline from 2014:
> 
> Irvine Welsh adds support to Brixton Ritzy workers ahead of Friday’s strike
> Mayor Boris Johnson urged to intervene in Ritzy cinema pay row
> Will Self urges Londoners to boycott the Brixton Ritzy and all Picturehouse cinemas


Yes, yes yes - you are preaching to the choir again here.  I know all about the strike/boycott but no, it doesn't hurt to remind /tell other people here repeatedly.

To refer back to my original point - I'm not sure that *hiring the sign board is breaking the boycott* - that is what I have repeatedly said I want to check, that is what I want to ask the Ritzy workers. I'll report back.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 6, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Was that a request from the BECTU staff? or just locals?



Your complaining people need education on unions and you ask this?

Actually it was a vocal minority of locals who aren't representative of all the hard working people who haven't time to support dusputes like this who requested boycott. 

Of course it was Ritzy workers. They told me themselves.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 6, 2018)

Edit


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 6, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> To refer back to my original point - I'm not sure that *hiring the sign board is breaking the boycott* - that is what I have repeatedly said I want to check, that is what I want to ask the Ritzy workers. I'll report back.



Imo thats not quite the point. Repost :



	 The article in question

   " The Ladies From 2017’s Romantic Brixton Proposal Finally Got Married, And Here’s What Happened"
*
	Was written a few weeks ago. By editor in chief of the secret London website. I would have assumed that this person would have known about Ritzy dispute by now. (Them working in journalism / media.) But still puts ad for Ritzy at the of article.*

	This whole piece of "journalism* is an advertising piece in practice.

Plus they appear to have had open website asking people to turn up at Pop for wedding plus begging section for presents.

I'm not up to date with weddings but didn't think they were for Joe public.

The whole thing comes across as media event to me. Orchestrated by them and secret London website.




> Your company on our special day is more than enough. We are however in the process of purchasing our marital home and it needs a little TLC. So if you wanted to contribute towards making it wonderful we would be very grateful, you can do this by going to the registry tab above



The Ladies From 2017’s Romantic Brixton Proposal Finally Got Married, And Here’s What Happened


Katy Le Lion and Hannah Shanks's Wedding Website


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 6, 2018)

Thanks a lot for this post and digging around old posts. I don't the energy anymore to explain the obvious. Your post #430 is spot on. I'd forgotten I'd asked Ritzy workers.

ricbake


----------



## editor (Aug 7, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> To refer back to my original point - I'm not sure that *hiring the sign board is breaking the boycott* - that is what I have repeatedly said I want to check, that is what I want to ask the Ritzy workers. I'll report back.


Regardless of that, that article actively promotes the Ritzy while making _no reference at all _to the dispute or the boycott which has been going on - and widely advertised - for years and years.

I wouldn't want my name up there while the boycott was going on, but if you think that's fine, then we'll just have to disagree.

No need to keep this discussion going on really.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

Southlondon said:


> Are Amazon workers actively in dispute and calling for a boycott? That’s the difference, the Rutzy staff are in an official dispute, and have requested a boycott. That’s by they should be bocotted, and if Amazon workers organise and put out the same call we should do the same.  I personally feel they lacked experienced union support to better publicise the boycott, but thinking of the big historic trade union backed disputes of the past - grunwick, garners even the miners strike, which were defeated by the resilience of the bosses and the eventual lack of wider movement support for the long haul battle, I’m not sure even if there had been more persistent activity it would have made much difference. Solidarity is difficult to generate these days.  to  be fair to the people breaking the boycott, I’m sure many were doing so unwittingly as  they’re not crossing a picket line or being handed leaflets as they approach the cinema. That is how the local supporters of the staff could have helped to reduce income to the company. Long duration disputes need a pool of committed activists that maintain consistent pressure. Chatting on line in forums and sharing photos of the occasional pickets isn’t what wins disputes. There’s nothing to stop supporters organising flash pickets , or managing a rota of supporters to ensure that no one enters that cinema without knowing they’re breaking a boycott. They had some success with the dispute but I think it’s simply run out of steam.



The Ritzy workers are handicapped by laws. If they go on strike pickets are strictly limited. The sackings were over advocating cyber pickets. Which are illegal. Unfortunately. As reading outcome of the tribunal Cineworld were genuinely worried about that.

I agree up to a point with posters who say people have lot of other things to deal with. I do. I follow boycott but don't have time for much else.

Seems to me that laws against use of internet in disputes have already been put in place. It might  have been good way to fuck up Cineworld and force them to negotiate.

I also expressed reservations about boycott when it started. The Ritzy workers had done a colourful inventive campaign but feel they should have had better advice.

Boycott really means there most sympathetic supporters ( long standing users) stop going. Lose contact with cinema and broader range of users.

Imo boycott was mistake.

It also leads to a lot of "whataboutery" from people who were lukewarm about dispute.

Apart from that campaign has been very good.


----------



## editor (Aug 7, 2018)

Good to hear so much reggae and ska reverberating around Brixton recently. On Sunday there was a hefty rig blasting our in the gap between the Barrier Block and there's been a smaller sound system playing from the car park. They're still going strong now, so I dare say there's some people complaining about Brixton being _too_ Brixton, or whatever.


----------



## billythefish (Aug 7, 2018)

editor said:


> Good to hear so much reggae and ska reverberating around Brixton recently. On Sunday there was a hefty rig blasting our in the gap between the Barrier Block and there's been a smaller sound system playing from the car park. They're still going strong now, so I dare say there's some people complaining about Brixton being _too_ Brixton, or whatever.


I miss the guy who used to drive around in an old BMW 7 series with the number plate FAT 7, and who had a monster sound system blasting out Reggae and Dub. He always made me smile.


----------



## David Clapson (Aug 7, 2018)

What does the future hold for Acrelane Builders Merchants? I was expecting it to have been demolished by now


----------



## trabuquera (Aug 7, 2018)

AFAIK the developer's greedy space-cramming plans were rejected so they're still drawing up the third version of what sort of "luxury flats" are to be permitted. Engagingly odd hippy pop-up shop in the space currently selling a load of textiles/crafts from Rajasthan.


----------



## David Clapson (Aug 7, 2018)

But the builders merchant is still trading isn't it? Is the hippy shop next door?


----------



## trabuquera (Aug 7, 2018)

Shit, sorry - obviously I was talking about the defunct plumber's merchant. Acre Lane Timber is still trading and shows no signs of closing down that I've seen - been in there and to the lighting annex in the last few months, asked them about the future, got no hint of redevelopment or 'they're pushing us out' etc.


----------



## David Clapson (Aug 7, 2018)

Good stuff. For once in my life I need a builders' merchant and I can walk to Acre Lane instead of paying a fortune to have a little bit of fencing delivered. 

It's also great that Brixton DIY is still going. Proper tools, seeds...and that hardware shop smell.


----------



## Rushy (Aug 7, 2018)

trabuquera said:


> Shit, sorry - obviously I was talking about the defunct plumber's merchant. Acre Lane Timber is still trading and shows no signs of closing down that I've seen - been in there and to the lighting annex in the last few months, asked them about the future, got no hint of redevelopment or 'they're pushing us out' etc.


Acre lane chaps own their own site, don't they? As did Fulham Timber. And Moores. And Diamond, for that matter.

Fulham Timber is still around. Trading from estate just off Lyham Road.


----------



## organicpanda (Aug 7, 2018)

editor said:


> Good to hear so much reggae and ska reverberating around Brixton recently. On Sunday there was a hefty rig blasting our in the gap between the Barrier Block and there's been a smaller sound system playing from the car park. They're still going strong now, so I dare say there's some people complaining about Brixton being _too_ Brixton, or whatever.


wasn't the one on Sunday celebrating Jamaican Independence Day, seem to remember a similar party last year around the same time


----------



## organicpanda (Aug 7, 2018)

billythefish said:


> I miss the guy who used to drive around in an old BMW 7 series with the number plate FAT 7, and who had a monster sound system blasting out Reggae and Dub. He always made me smile.


was he the one whose sound system was raised out of the boot looking like a Thunderbird?


----------



## billythefish (Aug 7, 2018)

organicpanda said:


> was he the one whose sound system was raised out of the boot looking like a Thunderbird?


I don't remember that - he just cruised around with the windows wound down, leaving a trail of car alarms in his wake


----------



## discobastard (Aug 7, 2018)

editor said:


> So your argument is: don't bother supporting a boycott by local workers because you might be using services by workers elsewhere who have it worse (even though they've not asked people to boycott their services). So don't support any industrial action by anyone, and you just carry on doing as you please.
> 
> That's a nice handy argument that leaves you free to enjoy the Ritzy whenever it suits you, isn't it?



I think you, and anybody reading this, knows that what you've written is utter, unmitigated bollocks.  If you'd like to read my posts and show your working then I'd be glad to see it.

Two things: 
1) That is _so far_ from my argument that I can't understand the thought process that got there;
2) That is in no way remotely representative of my argument.  Go back and look again

And your comment about workers _not having asked you to boycott their services _is frankly insane.  So if the vulnerable don't shout loud enough you should ignore them?!?! That's just fucking weird.  

Of course if you meant something else then please clarify - I would't want to misrepresent your argument so crassly as you have mine.

And FYI I've been to the Ritzy about twice in the last three years.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I think *you, and anybody reading this,* knows that what you've written is utter, unmitigated bollocks.  s.



Speak for yourself. You don't speak for me.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 7, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> You are one of the posters quick to have a go at Ed. Ed has done a lot to publicise the dispute on Brixton Buzz and organised fundraisers through Offline Club.
> 
> So through Eds work he has done a lot more than some who come on Brixton boards to publicise and support the campaign.
> 
> To add. I have plenty of things going on in my life. I don't know what you mean by vocal minority.



For the record, I think editor does some fantastic things, the gig for Cressingham as well as basically just creating and maintaining this forum for people to discuss here the things that they do.  And also for Buzz to give the council a hard time about their shitty and opaque decisions and management. And I agree with much of what gets said here.  I'm happy to sincerely and publicly give credit to him for that. 

But it isn't going stop me from calling out what I think are distortions, fallacies, contradictions and just plain bollocks.  Presumably that's allowed on a discussion forum.  Or am I a shit stirrer with nothing better to do as has been suggested?

Vocal minority is fairly common parlance.  It means a group of people that have a particular view of something that shout loud about it, in contrast to the majority who may or may not care about it and are not activists for whatever reason (like bringing up a family, having other more pressing concerns in their lives such as financial or health troubles for them or their family, not believing it is that serious an issue or simply not giving a shit). 

I hope that clarifies things.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 7, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Speak for yourself. You don't speak for me.


Fair enough.  But I still believe editor's post *massively* misrepresents mine.  If you want to disagree then please show your working.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 7, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Not an answer.


Happy to discuss if you want to rephrase the question.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 7, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I'm lost for words. Your post was aimed at me. You assumed I did.


I didn't assume you did, have no idea how you do your shopping.  But others do I am sure and I wonder about the contradiction.

(ETA: I'm trying not to make the cardinal insult of creating a cross-thread issue here  and editor has said elsewhere that Amazon Prime is 'chuffing brilliant' - I can't personally understand why one is a travesty and one is perfectly acceptable.  Nobody wants to answer that because I suspect they can't.  And if you want to ban me for making that point then fill your boots.  I was just trying to be respectful)

Fuck's sake, none of this is personal attacks.  They're points for discussion, but all that seems to come back in return is deflection or crass misrepresentation.  I struggle to understand why that's not more obvious to everybody.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

Deleted as nightmare quote didn't work again


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I didn't assume you did, have no idea how you do your shopping.  But others do I am sure and I wonder about the contradiction.
> 
> (ETA: I'm trying not to make the cardinal insult of creating a cross-thread issue here  and editor has said elsewhere that Amazon Prime is 'chuffing brilliant' - I can't personally understand why one is a travesty and one is perfectly acceptable.  Nobody wants to answer that because I suspect they can't.  And if you want to ban me for making that point then fill your boots.  I was just trying to be respectful)
> 
> Fuck's sake, none of this is personal attacks.  They're points for discussion, but all that seems to come back in return is deflection or crass misrepresentation.  I struggle to understand why that's not more obvious to everybody.



What are you going on about?

When have I said anything about banning you?


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I didn't assume you did, have no idea how you do your shopping.  But others do I am sure and I wonder about the contradiction.
> 
> y.



You directed a post at me about Amazon.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

discobastard said:


> For the record, I think editor does some fantastic things, the gig for Cressingham as well as basically just creating and maintaining this forum for people to discuss here the things that they do.  And also for Buzz to give the council a hard time about their shitty and opaque decisions and management. And I agree with much of what gets said here.  I'm happy to sincerely and publicly give credit to him for that.
> 
> But it isn't going stop me from calling out what I think are distortions, fallacies, contradictions and just plain bollocks.  Presumably that's allowed on a discussion forum.  Or am I a shit stirrer with nothing better to do as has been suggested?
> 
> ...



I have plenty of pressing concerns. I also have opinions. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Separating those with "pressing concerns" as opposed to "activists" / minorities who shout loudly is well used right wing common parlance.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

After this discussion I realize it was wrong to support Ritzy strikers boycott. When there are so many other oppressed workers in other industries out there. If I can't support all I shouldn't support one.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 7, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> After this discussion I realize it was wrong to support Ritzy strikers boycott. When there are so many other oppressed workers in other industries out there. If I can't support all I shouldn't support one.


Seriously if that's your response then this argument is descending into childish territory.  Over and out.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Seriously if that's your response then this argument is descending into childish territory.  Over and out.



Its the logical conclusion of your reasoning.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 8, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Its the logical conclusion of your reasoning.


No it's not.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 8, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> The Ritzy workers are handicapped by laws.



Surely they are protected by laws?


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 8, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Surely they are protected by laws?



Up to a point. The tribunal ruling in favour of the sacked Ritzy workers is example.

On things like picketing/ striking laws are now on balance in bosses favour. Things have changed from the seventies.

Take picketing during a strike. I turned up to one strike day at Ritzy. Only few there. Talked to Ritzy workers and laws limit number of pickets to six.

Cyber pickets already appear to be outlawed.

So my point was effective action that would hurt Cineworld isnt possible.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 8, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Up to a point. The tribunal ruling in favour of the sacked Ritzy workers is example.
> 
> On things like picketing/ striking laws are now on balance in bosses favour. Things have changed from the seventies.
> 
> ...



What is a cyber picket ?

Alex


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 8, 2018)

alex_ said:


> What is a cyber picket ?
> 
> Alex



Doing stuff like flooding the Ritzy website booking system so it crashes. A lot of business need internet. I'm not a techie so don't know all details.

Appears that that this is already illegal for trade unions / shop stewards to encourage as part of campaign.

I don't know why.

Attacking a business economically seems fair enough to me


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 8, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Your complaining people need education on unions and you ask this?
> ...
> Of course it was Ritzy workers. They told me themselves.


I don't have much direct contact with the ritzy workers and don't know the extent of your or editor 's knowledge of their campaign or of your authority to speak for them.   I still think my original question was a valid one. I do support the Ritzy boycott, but as a mere member of the public I'm not sure why you expect me to know every detail of their strike. 

We obviously have different opinions on this.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 8, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't have much direct contact with the ritzy workers and don't know the extent of your or editor 's knowledge of their campaign or of your authority to speak for them.   I still think my original question was a valid one. I do support the Ritzy boycott, but as a mere member of the public I'm not sure why you expect me to know every detail of their strike.
> 
> We obviously have different opinions on this.



I'm also a mere member of the public.

I don't have authority to speak for Ritzy workers. Never claimed I did.

I'd forgotten but due to ricbake helpfully looking up old posts I did contact Ritzy campaign to clarify boycott had started some time ago. See post 420 by ricbake.

Apart from that I think we agree on Living Wage issue.

My previous post was harsh. So apologies for that.

From your posts I think you think Living Wage is important.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 8, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Apart from that I think we agree on Living Wage issue.
> 
> My previous post was harsh. So apologies for that.
> 
> From your posts I think you think Living Wage is important.


 Apology accepted.

I think we do agree. I earned less than LLW, barely above minimum, for the last decade until very recently.

And yes I think everyone should earn a living wage and big employers / hugely profitable should be forced to pay it. More over, Lambeth Council should stop giving public property like Norwood Library away to companies, like Cineworld, who don't pay decent wages.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 8, 2018)

I went to San Marino for the first time today. Its odd sitting outside on one of the most polluted stetches of road. Coffee was nice though.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 9, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't have much direct contact with the ritzy workers and don't know the extent of your or editor 's knowledge of their campaign or of your authority to speak for them.   I still think my original question was a valid one. I do support the Ritzy boycott, but as a mere member of the public I'm not sure why you expect me to know every detail of their strike.
> 
> We obviously have different opinions on this.



To add , and its not just your post . Its been running through previous posts. This supposed difference between ordinary people and activists.

" mere members of the public" people with more "pressing concerns".

On the one hand being told not to be judgemental about people don't personally know. Then get labelled as not ordinary person if one does keep up with issues and has knowledge about them.


----------



## urbanspaceman (Aug 9, 2018)

Gentrification a go-go. A long article about Brixton restaurants in Spectator Life 
The best restaurants in Brixton | Spectator Life


----------



## urbanspaceman (Aug 9, 2018)

Councillor Irfan Mohammed, who represents Ferndale Ward, has referred himself to the Lambeth Labour Whip for disciplinary investigation into his antisemitic comments.

In Dec 2015 he posted a video regurgitating the tired old conspiraloon theory that jews were warned to stay away from the WTC on 9/11. And for a thousand days the story remained unmolested on his FB page. Two days ago the CAA found the post, and the Mail picked up the story. And suddenly, in a blinding revelation over in the space of one day, Irfan realised the error of his ways. It's heart-warming to witness such an epiphany.


More details:
www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/labour-councillor-says-sorry-for-sharing-racist-conspiracy-theory-about-jews-1.468179?highlight=irfan
antisemitism.uk/caa-exposes-labour-councillor-irfan-mohammed-who-shared-facebook-post-claiming-jews-were-warned-to-stay-home-on-9-11/


----------



## CH1 (Aug 9, 2018)

dup


----------



## CH1 (Aug 9, 2018)

urbanspaceman said:


> Councillor Irfan Mohammed, who represents Ferndale Ward, has referred himself to the Lambeth Labour Whip for disciplinary investigation into his antisemitic comments.
> 
> In Dec 2015 he posted a video regurgitating the tired old conspiraloon theory that jews were warned to stay away from the WTC on 9/11. And for a thousand days the story remained unmolested on his FB page. Two days ago the CAA found the post, and the Mail picked up the story. And suddenly, in a blinding revelation over in the space of one day, Irfan realised the error of his ways. It's heart-warming to witness such an epiphany.
> 
> ...


This guy made a speech at the Lambeth Interfaith Forum AGM in June (speaking as a Muslim Lambeth councillor). Came across as rather young, inexperienced, well meaning and undogmatic. Refreshing you might almost say.

Cllr Irfan Mohammed seems to have managed this incident, from the Jewish Chronicle account. I guess the proof is in whether it stays managed!


----------



## Angellic (Aug 9, 2018)

CH1 said:


> This guy made a speech at the Lambeth Interfaith Forum AGM in June (speaking as a Muslim Lambeth councillor). Came across as rather young, inexperienced, well meaning and undogmatic. Refreshing you might almost say.
> 
> Cllr Irfan Mohammed seems to have managed this incident, from the Jewish Chronicle account. I guess the proof is in whether it stays managed!



Unlike the one Corbyn isn't.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2018)

urbanspaceman said:


> Councillor Irfan Mohammed, who represents Ferndale Ward, has referred himself to the Lambeth Labour Whip for disciplinary investigation into his antisemitic comments.
> 
> In Dec 2015 he posted a video regurgitating the tired old conspiraloon theory that jews were warned to stay away from the WTC on 9/11. And for a thousand days the story remained unmolested on his FB page. Two days ago the CAA found the post, and the Mail picked up the story. And suddenly, in a blinding revelation over in the space of one day, Irfan realised the error of his ways. It's heart-warming to witness such an epiphany.
> 
> ...


What an utter dick.


----------



## Winot (Aug 9, 2018)

urbanspaceman said:


> Gentrification a go-go. A long article about Brixton restaurants in Spectator Life
> The best restaurants in Brixton | Spectator Life



Didn’t Elephant close quite a while ago? Seems to be a c+p job.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2018)

urbanspaceman said:


> Gentrification a go-go. A long article about Brixton restaurants in Spectator Life
> The best restaurants in Brixton | Spectator Life


"The _zany_ Hope & Anchor..."
"A happily hipster type of coffee shop"

Barf.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Aug 9, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I went to San Marino for the first time today. Its odd sitting outside on one of the most polluted stetches of road. Coffee was nice though.



I love San Marino but you have to say it's the most polluted cafe in Ldn, particularly if you sit outside.

I'm old enough to remember it was the only place in Brixton,  you could get a decent coffee.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Doing stuff like flooding the Ritzy website booking system so it crashes. A lot of business need internet. I'm not a techie so don't know all details.
> 
> Appears that that this is already illegal for trade unions / shop stewards to encourage as part of campaign.
> 
> ...



Driving a car into the foyer of the ritzy is illegal for the same reason - it’s breaking the law.

Re “flooding the website with traffic” if the ritzy chain is even half way competent - it’ll be basically impossible.

Alex


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2018)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I love San Marino but you have to say it's the most polluted cafe in Ldn, particularly if you sit outside.
> 
> I'm old enough to remember it was the only place in Brixton,  you could get a decent coffee.


It was always my first choice cafe but the wi-fi has become so flakey that I've given up if I'm going out to do some work. Being charged a hefty 40p extra for soya milk in coffee stings a bit too when most places don't charge extra.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2018)

discobastard said:


> (ETA: I'm trying not to make the cardinal insult of creating a cross-thread issue here  and editor has said elsewhere that Amazon Prime is 'chuffing brilliant' - I can't personally understand why one is a travesty and one is perfectly acceptable.  Nobody wants to answer that because I suspect they can't.  And if you want to ban me for making that point then fill your boots.  I was just trying to be respectful)
> 
> Fuck's sake, none of this is personal attacks.  They're points for discussion, but all that seems to come back in return is deflection or crass misrepresentation.  I struggle to understand why that's not more obvious to everybody.


Yes, Amazon Prime is a chuffing brilliant service. Most people using it would agree with that. And I used to find the Ritzy cafe a chuffing brilliant place to work too until the workers called a boycott, which I have respected ever since.

And if Amazon Prime workers call a boycott I will support that too. But they haven't, so explain to me what I've said in a completely different and totally unrelated thread asking about _the quality of an online shopping service_ has to do with supporting a local cinema boycott.

You see, you trying to bring these completely unrelated two points together looks exactly like a personal attack. You're trying to highlight my supposed hypocritical actions and thus discredit my argument, but your point is so half-arsed it fails on all counts. It just looks like a cheap ad hominem, which is what it is.

Please stop and stick to the topic.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 9, 2018)

editor said:


> Yes, Amazon Prime is a chuffing brilliant service. Most people using it would agree with that. And I used to find the Ritzy cafe a chuffing brilliant place to work too until the workers called a boycott, which I have respected ever since.
> 
> And if Amazon Prime workers call a boycott I will support that too. But they haven't, so explain to me what I've said in a completely different and totally unrelated thread asking about _the quality of an online shopping service_ has to do with supporting a local cinema boycott.
> 
> ...




Why Boycott Amazon? - Social Justice Books


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Why Boycott Amazon? - Social Justice Books


And so you're going to carry on with the same off-topic ad hominem bullshit by linking to an American children's book? Please get to the point. Exactly what has that book got to do with Brixton or the Ritzy workers' boycott?

I'm certainly not going to defend Amazon's tax dodging efforts and as I have already clearly stated, I would support a boycott, if called for by the workers.

But none of this has anything to do with Brixton or the Ritzy industrial actions, so it's a just another dull and disruptive attempt at making the argument about my supposed 'hypocrisy'.

I've had enough of decent debate being dragged off topic by this kind of personal crap in the Brixton forum. Stay on topic or expect to be warned again.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2018)

Blimey that was a lot of rain earlier. And there's much rumbling coming from the skies now. Take a brolley if you're going out!


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2018)

Anyone been to Donburi & Co on Station Road? This is where that awful toff-owned reggae burger place was going to be ...


----------



## aka (Aug 9, 2018)

Yes.  Food was average.  Is it 'toff-owned' - I couldn't say.  It is doomed - almost 100%.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2018)

aka said:


> Yes.  Food was average.  Is it 'toff-owned' - I couldn't say.  It is doomed - almost 100%.


I've no idea who owns it but the originally planned Boomburger was toff owned. Thankfully he fucked off before opening.


----------



## aka (Aug 9, 2018)

DONBURI & CO LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)


----------



## cuppa tee (Aug 9, 2018)

editor said:


> Anyone been to Donburi & Co on Station Road? This is where that awful toff-owned reggae burger place was going to be ...
> 
> View attachment 143617


Mixmaster Morris mentioned a Japanese restaurant by the rec on Facebook just yesterday but didn't name it.....must've meant this gaff....


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 9, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Driving a car into the foyer of the ritzy is illegal for the same reason - it’s breaking the law.
> 
> Re “flooding the website with traffic” if the ritzy chain is even half way competent - it’ll be basically impossible.
> 
> Alex



Im not clear why it's breaking the law. Nor do I understand why.

I don't get comparison with driving car into foyer. Which would likely cause death and injury. I don't think anyone would support that.

According to Industrial tribunal the offending quote from reps email as this:



> 9. On 18 April 2017, an email was sent to Ritzy BECTU members at their private
> email addresses from a BECTU email address making reference to the next
> strike date and other campaigning ideas including the ‘cyber-attack’. As
> relevant this email said
> ...


Cineworld aren't contesting effectiveness of this. I don't know if Cineworld or reps are over estimating effectiveness of this.

I've never booked tickets so don't know how it works.

Sounds good idea to me if it worked


----------



## Winot (Aug 9, 2018)

aka said:


> Yes.  Food was average.  Is it 'toff-owned' - I couldn't say.  It is doomed - almost 100%.



Ate there once late at night after a fair few beers (so not at my sharpest) but the bimbimbap (sp?) was pretty good and bloke serving was friendly - from rural area in Korea. Owner seems to be Korean-American from Companies House.


----------



## Winot (Aug 9, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Mixmaster Morris mentioned a Japanese restaurant by the rec on Facebook just yesterday but didn't name it.....must've meant this gaff....



It’s Korean.


----------



## cuppa tee (Aug 9, 2018)

Winot said:


> It’s Korean.



......any idea where MM meant then ?

E2a.....Hang on .....tinter net says its  japanese/Korean


----------



## Winot (Aug 9, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> ......any idea where MM meant then ?
> 
> Hang on tho' tinternet says its  japanese/Korean



Dunno and Donburi isn’t a Korean word is it. But food is definitely Korean. Perhaps they are hedging bets.


----------



## cuppa tee (Aug 9, 2018)

Winot said:


> Dunno and Donburi isn’t a Korean word is it. But food is definitely Korean. Perhaps they are hedging bets.


----------



## Winot (Aug 9, 2018)

Website says Earlsfield. The Japanese stuff (udon etc.) isn’t on the menu in Brixton. 

Donburi  – Donburi restaurant


----------



## cuppa tee (Aug 9, 2018)

Winot said:


> Website says Earlsfield. The Japanese stuff (udon etc.) isn’t on the menu in Brixton.
> 
> Donburi  – Donburi restaurant



eatinbrixton sez it is .......in fact they say donburi is a Japanese rice bowl....Donburi & Co


----------



## alex_ (Aug 10, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Im not clear why it's breaking the law. Nor do I understand why.
> 
> I don't get comparison with driving car into foyer. Which would likely cause death and injury. I don't think anyone would support that.
> 
> ...



I think our ideas of how to overload a website are quite different.

What you are suggesting is legal, and done by enough people would probably be effective and hard to counter. It’d be very resource intensive though.

Alex


----------



## Smick (Aug 10, 2018)

alex_ said:


> I think our ideas of how to overload a website are quite different.
> 
> What you are suggesting is legal, and done by enough people would probably be effective and hard to counter. It’d be very resource intensive though.
> 
> Alex


I thought he meant DDoS.


----------



## northeast (Aug 10, 2018)

Whats the latest on the Arches in Brixton, never seen one contractor go into "site" its just seems like everyone has been kicked out and nothing being done.


----------



## editor (Aug 10, 2018)

northeast said:


> Whats the latest on the Arches in Brixton, never seen one contractor go into "site" its just seems like everyone has been kicked out and nothing being done.


The whole thing has been a disaster for Brixton. And all the while, the pawn shop and the bookies keep on tradin'.


----------



## ricbake (Aug 10, 2018)

City AM did this on Monday - Budget Carpets retweeted it via Guardian of the arches.

Businesses make list of demands over £1.5bn Network Rail arches sale


----------



## teuchter (Aug 10, 2018)

northeast said:


> Whats the latest on the Arches in Brixton, never seen one contractor go into "site" its just seems like everyone has been kicked out and nothing being done.



I see contractors going in and out most times I go past. There are notices on the hoardings with some photos/detail of what's been done so far; I posted one on the arches thread a little while ago.


----------



## northeast (Aug 10, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I see contractors going in and out most times I go past. There are notices on the hoardings with some photos/detail of what's been done so far; I posted one on the arches thread a little while ago.


 Thanks, i'll go have a look. Does seem to be moving at a snails pace.


----------



## editor (Aug 10, 2018)

ricbake said:


> City AM did this on Monday - Budget Carpets retweeted it via Guardian of the arches.
> 
> Businesses make list of demands over £1.5bn Network Rail arches sale


That shitty website keeps on demanding 50p to view the article even though I have no ad blockers active.

*Edit - I managed to view it in Tor.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 10, 2018)

Smick said:


> I thought he meant DDoS.



Me too


----------



## alex_ (Aug 10, 2018)

editor said:


> That shitty website keeps on demanding 50p to view the article even though I have no ad blockers active.
> 
> *Edit - I managed to view it in Tor.



Turning off JavaScript works too.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 10, 2018)

alex_ said:


> I think our ideas of how to overload a website are quite different.
> 
> What you are suggesting is legal, and done by enough people would probably be effective and hard to counter. It’d be very resource intensive though.
> 
> Alex



I think the issue is that ritzy workers/Bectu can't be seen to be encouraging/  organising this.


----------



## editor (Aug 10, 2018)

Thunderstorm ahoy!


----------



## sealion (Aug 10, 2018)

Hailstones in Peckham


----------



## Ms T (Aug 13, 2018)

I was canvassed last night by the Green Party as there is to be a by-election in Colharbour Ward next month. Apparently the Labour councillor Matt Parr died recently Of cancer. He was only 61.  Michael Groce is standing again for the Greens.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 13, 2018)

Ms T said:


> I was canvassed last night by the Green Party as there is to be a by-election in Colharbour Ward next month. Apparently the Labour councillor Matt Parr died recently Of cancer. He was only 61.  Michael Groce is standing again for the Greens.


Lib Dems put a leaflet through at my place yesterday.

One side is all "Help us stop Brexit" the other "Labour's not working for you" with an arch picture. At the bottom of the page a black bar mentions the by-election and gives condolences for the family of deceased Councillor Matt Parr. 

It might have been an idea if the Lib Dems had gone into a pact with the Greens as worked in Richmond earlier this year. But that's obviously not happening in Lambeth at the moment. In any case the combined Green/Lib Dem vote is only half of Labour's - unless they have a really good by-election this time.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 13, 2018)

Coldharbour Labour not giving much away - yet. This set of people "talking to Coldharbour residents abt the sad death of Cllr Matt Parr & what’s at stake in the 13.9 by-election" seem to be on the council already - all eight of them


----------



## Tricky Skills (Aug 13, 2018)

SEE YA


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Coldharbour Labour not giving much away - yet. This set of people "talking to Coldharbour residents abt the sad death of Cllr Matt Parr & what’s at stake in the 13.9 by-election" seem to be on the council already - all eight of them



Never seen or heard any of them.


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> SEE YA



Still, if anyone needs  a  freelance communications consultant with a network of colleagues for developing their marketing strategy, they now know where to look.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Aug 13, 2018)

This exhibition  of photos at Black Cultural Archives is worth a look, some great images. 
Expectations


----------



## Tricky Skills (Aug 13, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Coldharbour Labour not giving much away - yet. This set of people "talking to Coldharbour residents abt the sad death of Cllr Matt Parr & what’s at stake in the 13.9 by-election" seem to be on the council already - all eight of them




I find this tweet rather inappropriate. The funeral for Cllr Parr is not until 31st August. Was the selfie really necessary?

When we posted this story on Buzz ahead of the Gipsy Hill 2016 by-election, there was an awful lot of pressure coming from Lambeth Labour for us to withdraw the piece.


----------



## cuppa tee (Aug 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Never seen or heard any of them.


Paul Gadsby is councillor in Vassal
Philip Normal is councillor in Oval and has a shop in Granville Arcade.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Aug 13, 2018)

Funnily enough, Cllr Gadsby (far right) was the one leading the charge against Buzz two years ago, trying to shame us for posting up a news story.

He doesn't look too "sad" about the death of his colleague in that nasty tweet.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Aug 13, 2018)




----------



## Tricky Skills (Aug 13, 2018)

Actually, we won't take any lessons from Cllr Mohammed on social media etiquette after his sharing of a deeply anti-Semitic video.

I'm no flag waver for the Tories, but this is a little crass as well.


----------



## BusLanes (Aug 13, 2018)

Everyone's now out campaigning in town, as of this today anyway. Greens and Libs tonight anyway


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

It's getting hard to remember when the Albert hosted nights like this:


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

Here's one of my nights from just four years ago. Proper pub gig. Now there's only DJs playing so quietly you can hardly hear them from an over-engineered DJ booth so ridiculously tall you can hardly see them.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Lib Dems put a leaflet through at my place yesterday.
> 
> One side is all "Help us stop Brexit" the other "Labour's not working for you" with an arch picture. At the bottom of the page a black bar mentions the by-election and gives condolences for the family of deceased Councillor Matt Parr.
> 
> It might have been an idea if the Lib Dems had gone into a pact with the Greens as worked in Richmond earlier this year. But that's obviously not happening in Lambeth at the moment. In any case the combined Green/Lib Dem vote is only half of Labour's - unless they have a really good by-election this time.



Agree the LD leaflet covers same issues as local Greens. The LDs are going for same voter profile. I did see the LD canvassers. Very young and enthusiastic looking. Are LDs rebuilding after local and national setbacks?. The Brexit issue distinguishes them from main parties but not Greens.

I thought the leaflet was rather good.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> View attachment 143980 View attachment 143981
> 
> Agree the LD leaflet covers same issues as local Greens. The LDs are going for same voter profile. I did see the LD canvassers. Very young and enthusiastic looking. Are LDs rebuilding after local and national setbacks?. The Brexit issue distinguishes them from main parties but not Greens.
> 
> I thought the leaflet was rather good. View attachment 143976 View attachment 143977 View attachment 143978


The Brixton Arches weren't 'demolished'!  Who writes this nonsense?


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> The Brixton Arches weren't 'demolished'!  Who writes this nonsense?



I see. Should say evicted.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> This exhibition  of photos at Black Cultural Archives is worth a look, some great images.
> Expectations



Thanks for this. I will go. Noticed this in the link


> For the first time visitors can enjoy the communal areas of the building, while exploring ideas of the black British leadership experience in the 1960s and 1970s.



Not before time. Its just been the small exhibition space that has been open before to visitors. And the unused cafe space. Which could be really good.

TBH I've never found the BCA an inviting place to visit. Its a great building and could be good place to meet. I like visiting galleries/ museums but keep forgetting about BCA.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Thanks for this. I will go. Noticed this in the link
> 
> 
> Not before time. Its just been the small exhibition space that has been open before to visitors. And the unused cafe space. Which could be really good.
> ...


It's been pretty awful to date. So much space, yet to little stuff for the public to see, and so few new exhibitions every year. I sometimes wonder if they got more visitors when they were opposite the Dogstar.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 14, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


>


Note Irfan Mohammed (who self-referred himself to Labour disciplinary panel recently) was an active and opinionated tweeter. This would have been approx a year after his "tasteless" repetition of a message claiming Jews had been advised not to go to work in the twin towers on 9/11.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> View attachment 143980 View attachment 143981
> 91
> Agree the LD leaflet covers same issues as local Greens. The LDs are going for same voter profile. I did see the LD canvassers. Very young and enthusiastic looking. Are LDs rebuilding after local and national setbacks?. The Brexit issue distinguishes them from main parties but not Greens.
> 
> I thought the leaflet was rather good. View attachment 143976 View attachment 143977 View attachment 143978


I think their agent if the same as the May elections lives in Coldharbour Lane (191 I think). So there is probably local input there!


----------



## alex_ (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> The Brixton Arches weren't 'demolished'!  Who writes this nonsense?



However the sentiment is spot on, and it’s all very similar to general sentiment here.

Alex


----------



## teuchter (Aug 14, 2018)

alex_ said:


> However the sentiment is spot on, and it’s all very similar to general sentiment here.
> 
> Alex


Urban75 is well known for being closely aligned with the Lib Dem viewpoint.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 14, 2018)

The community of the arches was demolished


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

alcopop said:


> The community of the arches was demolished


----------



## snowy_again (Aug 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Not before time. Its just been the small exhibition space that has been open before to visitors. And the unused cafe space. Which could be really good.
> 
> TBH I've never found the BCA an inviting place to visit. Its a great building and could be good place to meet. I like visiting galleries/ museums but keep forgetting about BCA.



The complication is that the BCA is an archive. That's not the same as being a gallery or a museum space, and has a different purpose & audience. 

Whilst they do have exhibition space, their funding is going to be predominantly focused on documenting and preserving (and then allowing access) to the archive. This tends to be from individuals and academics, plus groups, e.g. schools. All of which is time consuming and requiring a resource heavy. Funds to run additional events / exhibitions and workshops come through generated income surplus (of which there's none) or grants.  

They're operating on quite tight financial margins - income was 0.8m, expenditure was 0.8m so unless money is raised they don't have the resources to run it like a gallery / museum to cater for things outside of their primary purpose.  

They are still advertising for volunteer roles to support that - (here: About in the volunteering section) if you want to help them open up more.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> The complication is that the BCA is an archive. That's not the same as being a gallery or a museum space, and has a different purpose & audience.
> 
> Whilst they do have exhibition space, their funding is going to be predominantly focused on documenting and preserving (and then allowing access) to the archive. This tends to be from individuals and academics, plus groups, e.g. schools. All of which is time consuming and requiring a resource heavy. Funds to run additional events / exhibitions and workshops come through generated income surplus (of which there's none) or grants.
> 
> ...


It still feels like it's massively under performing though. They're smack-bang in the heart of Brixton in a beautiful building yet every time I've been there the place has been deserted, the cafe almost empty and nothing going on in the courtyard. 

It surely couldn't be that hard to at least use some of that space for more regular and engaging exhibitions. Ones like this, for example, that only needed a single room in the town hall: In photos: Harry Jacobs and the Empire Windrush exhibition, Lambeth Town Hall. Even local history stuff in the cafe would encourage more people to visit.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

Brixton Bid: For a cleaner Brixton with plenty more pointless, self promoting street clutter.


----------



## snowy_again (Aug 14, 2018)

How do you know they're underperfoming and what are you measuring that by?

Do you know the number of people who are using the archive, or the progress towards cataloguing and digitising the archive? 

Your definition of performance may not be what they've said they need to do in their annual strategy... and if you're operating with a few grand between profit and loss, as a charity (or any other type of operation) you have to be harsh on what you do and don't do based on that strategy. Their accounts I linked to show their business objectives for the last year, and I assume outline ones for the current financial year. 

The Harry Jacobs exhibition required a whole bunch of work* that the Council will happily cover the costs of as it gets people into the new town hall. From my skim of the BCA accounts they don't have the funds to do that. 

*The usual PLL, risk assessment, stewarding, set up, take down, launch event, monitoring etc.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> How do you know they're underperfoming and what are you measuring that by?


I'm measuring it by the fact that it's always empty when I've been there, the cafe is always empty and everyone I talk to is disappointed by it. Do you think it's a raging success then?

Financially it certainly seems to be underperforming  Lambeth Council considering funding Black Cultural Archives £540,000 for a further three years and I'd say everyone there had to be disappointed by a £50,000 crowfunding campaign that only managed to reach a mere 2% of its target.

Donate 50: Support Black Cultural Archives


----------



## snowy_again (Aug 14, 2018)

So not basing it on anything other than your drive by perception of how a minor hospitality element is or isn't working to your demographic. I'm sure the trustees are waiting on your phone call. 

Here's their plans for the current year and beyond. Tea and coffees don't currently appear to be a priority:


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> So not basing it on anything other than your drive by perception of how a minor hospitality element is or isn't working to your demographic. I'm sure the trustees are waiting on your phone call.
> 
> Here's their plans for the current year and beyond. Tea and coffees don't currently appear to be a priority:
> 
> View attachment 144028


Oh it's let's be sarky time along with some selective quoting while ignoring the other points I raised. Nice.  
Now tell me how the fuck you know who 'my demographic' supposedly are? How can you have an idea of who I've been talking to? Back up or button up.

But no, I wouldn't call a community based organisation who only managed to reach _2%_ of their crowdfunding appeal for funds to to stay open a raging success.

Oh, and IIRC correctly there was a discussion on Reclaim Brixton a while ago where many locals said that they were disappointed with the BCA. But if you think it's doing a great job, that's fine.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Aug 14, 2018)

I saw Mothercare shop all cleared out and gone.  I knew they were in trouble.  But..


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> I saw Mothercare shop all cleared out and gone.  I knew they were in trouble.  But..


That whole strip is going - expect the gentrified worst to come.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> That whole strip is going - expect the gentrified worst to come.


Is that new market shop units thingy in the old job centre only temporary then?


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> Is that new market shop units thingy in the old job centre only temporary then?


Yep. They had to change their 'Brixton Market' name too as it was potentially misleading.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> Yep. They had to change their 'Brixton Market' name too as it was potentially misleading.


Blimey.   So what are they planning for along there then?   Does anyone know?  And poundland going too I suppose.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> Blimey.   So what are they planning for along there then?   Does anyone know?  And poundland going too I suppose.


I heard - although not confirmed - that Phonox would be going too...


----------



## xsunnysuex (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> I heard - although not confirmed - that Phonox would be going too...


Hate what's happening to Brixton.   Nothing like it was 25yrs ago when I moved here.


----------



## sparkybird (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> But no, I wouldn't call a community based organisation who only managed to reach _2%_ of their crowdfunding appeal for funds to to stay open a raging success.



Running a successful crowd funding campaign takes man/women/person power and skills. Given their tight annual budget, I would imagine they couldn't buy in expertise for this, so probably tried to do it themselves and/or with volunteers and then found out.....


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

sparkybird said:


> Running a successful crowd funding campaign takes man/women/person power and skills. Given their tight annual budget, I would imagine they couldn't buy in expertise for this, so probably tried to do it themselves and/or with volunteers and then found out.....


Well, we gave it plenty of publicity - Brixton’s Black Cultural Archives launches crowdfunding campaign to secure the future of UK’s first Black heritage centre


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 14, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> Is that new market shop units thingy in the old job centre only temporary then?


they were handing out 15% off flyers outside the tube on sat for 'Brixton Mall' - not sure what they are selling in there yet


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> they were handing out 15% off flyers outside the tube on sat for 'Brixton Mall' - not sure what they are selling in there yet


Vape supplies, nail bar and some sort of food is what I've seen so far. It's a pretty grim looking, low-rent affair, put together on a really low budget.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> Oh it's let's be sarky time along with some selective quoting while ignoring the other points I raised. Nice.
> Now tell me how the fuck you know who 'my demographic' supposedly are? How can you have an idea of who I've been talking to? Back up or button up.
> 
> But no, I wouldn't call a community based organisation who only managed to reach _2%_ of their crowdfunding appeal for funds to to stay open a raging success.
> ...


I don't know why you are being so aggressive about this.

snowy_again has a good point - I really don't think you and I as older white locals who know a bit about history are the 'demographic' the BCA needs to impress. I'm well aware I'm not personally the target 'demographic' anywhere in Brixton these days but thats ok.

Well I often see school groups heading to/from there - surely they are the most important target audience here?  and weren't BCA central to some of the events in the square like the war memorial events over the last few years and the recent windrush demo?

I thought The BCA function was exactly that a black cultural archive - so surely thats primarily about education and being a repository of historic stuff. I have no idea how well they are doing with that, but I wouldn't judge them on the sucess of their cafe or their 'crowd funding' savvy.

We can't expect every small organisation to be able to do everything that everyone wishes for - especially in these days of cuts, cuts, red tape and accountablity. I think fundraising is tricky for any small community organisation so I don't think we should beat any small charity up about that.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 14, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> I saw Mothercare shop all cleared out and gone.  I knew they were in trouble.  But..


I wonder who all the new chains are that the likes of Network rail think will pay their inflated rents.


----------



## aka (Aug 14, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't know why you are being so aggressive about this.
> 
> snowy_again has a good point - snip.


I got bored of people giving me their advice/opinion/suggestions on how the social enterprise I had been assisting (unpaid) could do/be better etc., so I started saying "are you volunteering to do that?" or "who would do that, are you volunteering?" or "no, we would need a volunteer to do that, is that you?".  I used to be super polite and just nod and go 'thanks'.  "you should raise some more money" - thanks, hadn't thought of that....


----------



## lefteri (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> I heard - although not confirmed - that Phonox would be going too...


Fuck really? I would be surprised as the owners are a large company in nightlife terms and I would imagine they spent a fair bit of money on that refit - I wouldn’t imagine they would go lightly


----------



## aka (Aug 14, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I wonder who all the new chains are that the likes of Network rail think will pay their inflated rents.


won't be NRs problem, as they will have sold them off.  but, to answer the question - the answer is "non-existent" or more likely "fabricated" in the prospectus for the sell off.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

lefteri said:


> Fuck really? I would be surprised as the owners are a large company in nightlife terms and I would imagine they spent a fair bit of money on that refit - I wouldn’t imagine they would go lightly


Just walked past. Mothercare is closing, the Brixton Grill has gone, the Job Centre is now that temporary Mall, so there's only the Poundland and Phonox left...


----------



## aka (Aug 14, 2018)

lefteri said:


> Fuck really? I would be surprised as the owners are a large company in nightlife terms and I would imagine they spent a fair bit of money on that refit - I wouldn’t imagine they would go lightly


I imagine the lawyers are dusting off the lease.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't know why you are being so aggressive about this.
> 
> snowy_again has a good point - I really don't think you and I as older white locals who know a bit about history are the 'demographic' the BCA needs to impress. I'm well aware I'm not personally the target 'demographic' anywhere in Brixton these days but thats ok.


I'm pissed off with his tone because he's making the fucking massive and wholly incorrect assumption that the only people I've talked to about the BCA are what he dismisses as "my demographic.' I find that deeply patronising. I've lived on a Brixton council estate for nearly 30 years and I talk to residents and friends from all backgrounds all the time. And I know plenty of people around Brixton too. And guess what? They're not all from 'my demographic,' whatever that is.



friendofdorothy said:


> I have no idea how well they are doing with that, but I wouldn't judge them on the sucess of their cafe or their 'crowd funding' savvy.


And for the last time: I'm not judging the success of the place by its cafe earnings, although I can't imagine anyone involved can be pleased with the low footfall and takings. Please read the other points I raised in my post.

And just to get some perspective here: I'm not saying the place is a failure or not doing a good service. I'm just expressing an opinion I've heard many times that it's not as engaging as some people hoped, for a variety of reasons.

The fact that they've had to apply for more funding to make changes to their business model to ensure they can continue would suggest that things aren't going as well as they hoped. 



> Recommendation:
> 
> 1.	To approve £250,000 in funding to support the BCA to implement the changes the organisation intends to make to their business model to ensure financial sustainability. Funding will be conditional and released on the achievement of key agreed milestones.
> 
> Decision - Black Cultural Archives Funding | Lambeth Council


----------



## lefteri (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> Just walked past. Mothercare is closing, the Brixton Grill has gone, the Job Centre is now that temporary Mall, so there's only the Poundland and Phonox left...


What about barnardo’s, isn’t that part of the same estate?


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

lefteri said:


> What about barnardo’s, isn’t that part of the same estate?


I think that's still open but I didn't check.


----------



## lefteri (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> I think that's still open but I didn't check.


I’d be quite upset if that closed, a fair portion of my wardrobe and a not insignificant part of my record collection have come from there


----------



## aka (Aug 14, 2018)

lefteri said:


> I’d be quite upset if that closed, a fair portion of my wardrobe and a not insignificant part of my record collection have come from there


hmmm, you don't have a slightly soiled black (size small) motorcycle jacket do you?  Or a copy of Stars by Simply Red?


----------



## lefteri (Aug 14, 2018)

aka said:


> hmmm, you don't have a slightly soiled black (size small) motorcycle jacket do you?  Or a copy of Stars by Simply Red?


I’ve found some great records in there for cheap and some lovely clothes - it helps that it’s nearby and on my way into Brixton centre so I can visit often


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

lefteri said:


> I’ve found some great records in there for cheap and some lovely clothes - it helps that it’s nearby and on my way into Brixton centre so I can visit often


I've got a half ton of clothes to take down there so I hope they stay open!


----------



## lefteri (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> I've got a half ton of clothes to take down there so I hope they stay open!


Same here!


----------



## aka (Aug 14, 2018)

lefteri said:


> I’ve found some great records in there for cheap and some lovely clothes - it helps that it’s nearby and on my way into Brixton centre so I can visit often


I know - but did you buy my copy of Stars?  To be fair, even the staff weren't interested in that.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 14, 2018)

editor said:


> I heard - although not confirmed - that Phonox would be going too...



Moving to under the Arches or going ?


----------



## lefteri (Aug 14, 2018)

aka said:


> I know - but did you buy my copy of Stars?  To be fair, even the staff weren't interested in that.



Sometimes I go in there, pick up a record thinking ‘this looks alright’ then realise it’s one I donated


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Moving to under the Arches or going ?


Why do you think they would be 'moving under the arches'?


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Aug 14, 2018)

Have I missed some big plans for that stretch of the street? Surprised to hear Phonox is closing, it's been rammed when I've been.


----------



## aka (Aug 14, 2018)

I really can't imagine the asset manager (person in charge of leases and stuff) at Poundland being so shit as to allow them to be binned from a prime piece of high street frontage foc.  most likely it will happen - but it will cost the landlord/developer many times annual rent to break the lease.  ditto phonox.

landlord "would you like a zillion pounds to go away"
phonox "hells yeah"


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Have I missed some big plans for that stretch of the street? Surprised to hear Phonox is closing, it's been rammed when I've been.


It's only _rumoured_ to be closing at some point as far as I know. I haven't heard anything definite, but you can see that businesses are closing down along that stretch.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Have I missed some big plans for that stretch of the street? Surprised to hear Phonox is closing, it's been rammed when I've been.



I think that building may be up for redevelopment at some point. So the businesses there may go even if they are going concerns.


----------



## bimble (Aug 14, 2018)

Looks like the same thing that's happening to high streets everywhere tbh. Not surprised Mothercare is closing. Just looked it up and they're shutting 60 shops (after loss of 70 million quid last year, probably because everyone's buying online instead).


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Urban75 is well known for being closely aligned with the Lib Dem viewpoint.



What point are you making?

Looks to me the LibDem campaign is picking up on local issues that mean a lot to people in Coldharbour ward. They have done there research. 

I am not and have never been LibDem supporter.

I thought the coalition with Tories was a tactical error and disaster for LDs.

LDs have different wings. The "Orange Book" liberals who saw Tony Blair success as something to emulate and the old school pavement politics Liberals like CH1 if I'm correct.

Looks to me that the campaign literature for this by election is going back to the "pavement politics".

I think this is good thing.

What do you think?

I was impressed they put arches on the leaflet.

Over the years I've seen Liberal Cllrs stick up for community on local issues against the Lambeth Labour party machine.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> They are still advertising for volunteer roles to support that - (here: About in the volunteering section) if you want to help them open up more.



I take that your implying I should not have a critical opinion unless I volunteer?

Im already spending unpaid voluntary time on two organisations at the moment and have over years in Brixton put in a lot of unpaid volunteer hours.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

alcopop said:


> The community of the arches was demolished



Well actually that is good way to put it.

A successful bit of Brixton was destroyed. I miss it. It wasn't necessary.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't know why you are being so aggressive about this.
> 
> snowy_again has a good point - I really don't think you and I as older white locals who know a bit about history are the 'demographic' the BCA needs to impress. I'm well aware I'm not personally the target 'demographic' anywhere in Brixton these days but thats ok.
> 
> ...



The recent Windrush demo was organised by local SWP through Stand up to Racism organisation. 

Friends of Windrush Square have done a lot to look after war memorial.

So no BCA were not central.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't know why you are being so aggressive about this.
> 
> snowy_again has a good point - I really don't think you and I as older white locals who know a bit about history are the 'demographic' the BCA needs to impress. I'm well aware I'm not personally the target 'demographic' anywhere in Brixton these days but thats ok.
> 
> ...




I notice BCA sell Peter Fryers classic history book "Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain" so don't understand your comment on the demographic.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> The complication is that the BCA is an archive. That's not the same as being a gallery or a museum space, and has a different purpose & audience.
> 
> Whilst they do have exhibition space, their funding is going to be predominantly focused on documenting and preserving (and then allowing access) to the archive. This tends to be from individuals and academics, plus groups, e.g. schools. All of which is time consuming and requiring a resource heavy. Funds to run additional events / exhibitions and workshops come through generated income surplus (of which there's none) or grants.
> 
> ...



Also I like Ed have lived in Brixton for years. So know a wide range of people.

I remember talking to a Black academic some time ago who was critical of BCA since they have moved.

If it is archive then why did they move to this building? Why not stay were they were? Or find cheaper premises to work as archive?

I thought the whole point of the expensive rebuild of present building. Which the Council basically gave them was to make it more of a public space?

This imo hasn't worked.

Why take up valuable space for a cafe if it is not run in way to bring in income? Its better space than Ritzy cafe.

My original post was my feeling as someone who regularly visits exhibition spaces. As I try to take an interest in others experiences and history.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 15, 2018)

It appears someone called Scarlett O'Hara is standing in Coldharbour ward elections for Labour



I must say I was wondering if this for real. Gone with Wind and all.

I also googled and someone came up who is Corbyn supporter. Can't be right?

Can Tricky Skills help on this?


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 15, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> The complication is that the BCA is an archive. That's not the same as being a gallery or a museum space, and has a different purpose & audience.



Heritage Lottery Fund said this:


> . We are delighted to be supporting plans to make the archive widely available, and to create an exhibition and learning space



So the sizeable funding from HLF p!us funding from Mayor and Lambeth., as well as getting building virtually free from Lambeth., was not just for an archives space. 

This isnt some little charity or community group struggling to get by. 

The funding it got puts it in different league. I resent the implication that I'm not allowed to pass comment on it after all the funding it got. 

Major centre for black history and culture to be created | Heritage Lottery Fund

It got over five million.




> Funding worth more than £5m is being given to support the development of the Black Cultural Archives (BCA) in Brixton, it was announced today. The BCA archive collection numbers over 10,000 historical archive documents, spanning some five centuries, from letters and personal papers to periodicals, ephemera and photographs.
> 
> The Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) has confirmed a £4m grant* and the Mayor of London a further £1m. This investment will help turn currently derelict Grade II Raleigh Hall in Windrush Square into a permanent home for BCA’s wide-ranging collection of historical material relating to black Britain and the African diaspora.
> 
> ...


----------



## snowy_again (Aug 15, 2018)

You understand what a property charge is?


----------



## Ms T (Aug 15, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> Blimey.   So what are they planning for along there then?   Does anyone know?  And poundland going too I suppose.


It’s Poundworld that has folded I think.


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2018)

Fundraiser on Sat afternoon/eve: Fundraiser for Mosaic Clubhouse at Club 414, Brixton – Sat 18th Aug, 3pm-11pm


----------



## Casaubon (Aug 15, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> It appears someone called Scarlett O'Hara is standing in Coldharbour ward elections for Labour
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.


----------



## northeast (Aug 15, 2018)

Looks like someone wants to give Reliance Arcade a make over, fingers crossed this doesn't mean stupid rent increases for the great the shops 18/03333/FUL     |              Alterations and refurbishment of the arcade including the installation of new shopfronts, a replacement canopy with shutter, a replica sign board and stall risers on Brixton Road elevation; renovation of Electric Lane elevation and installation of a rooflight. (Planning Permission ref : 18/03333/FUL and Listed Building consent ref : 18/03334/LB applications received).                  |                                                                      Reliance Arcade Brixton Road London SW9 8HH


----------



## cuppa tee (Aug 15, 2018)

northeast said:


> Looks like someone wants to give Reliance Arcade a make over, fingers crossed this doesn't mean stupid rent increases for the great the shops 18/03333/FUL	 |			  Alterations and refurbishment of the arcade including the installation of new shopfronts, a replacement canopy with shutter, a replica sign board and stall risers on Brixton Road elevation; renovation of Electric Lane elevation and installation of a rooflight. (Planning Permission ref : 18/03333/FUL and Listed Building consent ref : 18/03334/LB applications received).				  |																	  Reliance Arcade Brixton Road London SW9 8HH


IQuoted your post on the Reliance Arcade thread......Reliance Arcade goes on the English Heritage At Risk list


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> IQuoted your post on the Reliance Arcade thread......Reliance Arcade goes on the English Heritage At Risk list


Probably best to keep the discussion there so it doesn't get lost in this general thread. Reliance Arcade is a real asset.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 15, 2018)

Casaubon said:


> Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.


This is actually quite confusing, as there is a Scarlett O'Hara (presumably fake id) tweets pro Corbyn pro Palestinian stuff.
Scarlett O'Hara (@ChezDaCouva) on Twitter
Can't imagine the Lapdogs of the Bourgeoisie who make up Lambeth Labour party would select _her_.


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2018)

Some Wednesday night choices: Going out in Brixton on a Wednesday night – the best bars, gigs and venues


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 15, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm pissed off with his tone because he's making the fucking massive and wholly incorrect assumption that the only people I've talked to about the BCA are what he dismisses as "my demographic.' I find that deeply patronising. I've lived on a Brixton council estate for nearly 30 years and I talk to residents and friends from all backgrounds all the time. And I know plenty of people around Brixton too. And guess what? They're not all from 'my demographic,' whatever that is.


 I didn't think 'demographic' includes all my friends and neighbours or everyone I've talked to. I didn't realise you were talking on behalf of the estate again. 

I don't know the academic definition of 'demographic' but I'm often pissed off because I'm an older menopausal lesbian who needs to get out more.


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 15, 2018)

Are there any Comedy nights/clubs in Brixton these days?


----------



## Maharani (Aug 15, 2018)

Anyone know when the Bike Dr will be around brixton or any of the surrounding areas?


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 15, 2018)

Maharani said:


> Anyone know when the Bike Dr will be around brixton or any of the surrounding areas?



Events | Lambeth Council


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I didn't think 'demographic' includes all my friends and neighbours or everyone I've talked to. I didn't realise you were talking on behalf of the estate again.


Show me where I have ever, EVER claimed to speak "on behalf of the estate". Thanks.


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2018)

gaijingirl said:


> Are there any Comedy nights/clubs in Brixton these days?


There's one in the Dogstar next Tuesday


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2018)

Maharani said:


> Anyone know when the Bike Dr will be around brixton or any of the surrounding areas?


Streatham Common 29 Aug
Windrush Square 5 Sept

Events | Lambeth Council


----------



## BusLanes (Aug 15, 2018)

Think he/they were in Oval today


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 15, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I didn't think 'demographic' includes all my friends and neighbours or everyone I've talked to. I didn't realise you were talking on behalf of the estate again.
> 
> I don't know the academic definition of 'demographic' but I'm often pissed off because I'm an older menopausal lesbian who needs to get out more.



The underlying issue is that Ed often gets criticised for allegedly showing prejudice against the new young mainly white influx from some posters.

Your posts are interesting as you are saying women of your age group and sexuality aren't being catered for in the new improved Brixton. If I'm summarising your recent posts correctly. Not that I am saying you are complaining. It is that you are posting up situation objectively that is how it is in modern Brixton.

I notice no posters pick up on this.

Personally I don't think that its good in Brixton ( and London). In a city/ borough that prides itself on being "diverse" that you feel that way.

Imo whilst Brixton and London prides itself on embrace of "diversity" this is diversity in a limited form.


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 16, 2018)

editor said:


> There's one in the Dogstar next Tuesday




oh perfect.  Thanks!


----------



## editor (Aug 16, 2018)

Here's the listing of Dr Bike events 

Get your bike fixed up for free! Dr Bike check-ups around Brixton and Lambeth Aug-Sept 2018


----------



## CH1 (Aug 17, 2018)

The list of Coldharbour Candidates has been published, and the Labour candidate is indeed called Scarlet O'Hara
https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/de...rsons-nominated-coldharbour-ward-160818_0.pdf

As to the personal skills of candidates we knew Michael Groce writes poetry. The Lib Dem candidate Doug Buist works for @The_Globe and is a composer.


----------



## BusLanes (Aug 17, 2018)

CH1 said:


> The list of Coldharbour Candidates has been published, and the Labour candidate is indeed called Scarlet O'Hara
> https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/de...rsons-nominated-coldharbour-ward-160818_0.pdf
> 
> As to the personal skills of candidates we knew Michael Groce writes poetry. The Lib Dem candidate Doug Buist works for @The_Globe and is a composer.



A creative team!  Does Groce really live in Orpington??


----------



## CH1 (Aug 17, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> A creative team!  Does Groce really live in Orpington??


Don't know. Ask him - he won't bite your head off!

BTW several councillors over the years have been entitled to stand for election on the grounds that their sole or main job was in Lambeth - i.e. they were a Lambeth Councillor.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 17, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> A creative team!  Does Groce really live in Orpington??


Not wanting to be OCD on this - but elections bring out the worst - and best - in me.
I found this "interesting information" about the area of \Orpington in which Michael Groce lives (as per the Lambeth election nomination statement):

*Housing Tenure Back to Top*
The area containing Rookery Gardens, Orpington contains a higher than average level of social housing - 78% of household spaces. This contrasts with the national average of just over 18%.


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2018)

One for the kids today - Relentless Records & Reprezent host free live music event for young people today in Pop Brixton, Fri 17th Aug, 1pm-4pm


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2018)

Photos from Weds night at the 414 here - In photos – late night Brixton jam session at Club 414, Wed 15th Aug 2018

If anyone wants guest tickets for the Dogstar this Sat, message me! 
Get guest tickets for Beyoncé to Britpop Brixton Buzz party at the Dogstar, Sat 18th Aug!


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2018)

Just stumbled across this sadly failed crowdfunding attempt to 'futureproof Brixton street markets'...

Futureproof Brixton Street Markets!


----------



## theboris (Aug 17, 2018)

CH1 said:


> The list of Coldharbour Candidates has been published, and the Labour candidate is indeed called Scarlet O'Hara
> https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/de...rsons-nominated-coldharbour-ward-160818_0.pdf
> 
> As to the personal skills of candidates we knew Michael Groce writes poetry. The Lib Dem candidate Doug Buist works for @The_Globe and is a composer.


Ha, I was at college with Doug. I don't remember him ever displaying any Lib Dem tendencies at the time. And, christ he's aged badly...


----------



## CH1 (Aug 17, 2018)

theboris said:


> Ha, I was at college with Doug. I don't remember him ever displaying any Lib Dem tendencies at the time


I understand from an old SDP hand that these current Lib Dems are a new breed.

Doug Buist's Twitter account suggests he is currently heavily involved in the Edinburgh Festival - so maybe we will see a whirlwind campaign between 28th August and 13th September.

Maybe he can use his connections to borrow one of Jeremy Thorpe's hovercraft (as used in "A very English Scandal"?


----------



## MissL (Aug 17, 2018)

Does anyone know anywhere local to drop clothes for recycling? Stuff that the charity shop won't be able to sell on - stuff with holes, stains etc. but may be good to recycle


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2018)

MissL said:


> Does anyone know anywhere local to drop clothes for recycling? Stuff that the charity shop won't be able to sell on - stuff with holes, stains etc. but may be good to recycle


Lambeth says: 

Clothing, textiles and shoes - reuse and recycling centre or local recycling points
A to Z of what to do with your waste | Lambeth Council


----------



## MissL (Aug 17, 2018)

Thank you. I see there’s a clothes and shoes recycling point on St. Matthews Estate


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 17, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Your posts are interesting as you are saying women of your age group and sexuality aren't being catered for in the new improved Brixton. If I'm summarising your recent posts correctly. Not that I am saying you are complaining. It is that you are posting up situation objectively that is how it is in modern Brixton.
> 
> I notice no posters pick up on this.
> 
> ...


 I wasn't complaining. I contented myself with meeting up with the knitting crew at the Effra social this week. Lovely perry on draft there this week. Good feminist/political chat and a few yarns.

It's true that London including Brixton is a lot more homogenised than it was. Certainly most of the exciting specialised women only/gay only venues have disappeared now across London.  It's also true that me and my grlf are welcome almost everywhere locally now - which wasn't true when we first met. Certainly many nu Brixton venues may not be to my taste, but meeting new younger people gives me opportunity to trot out old stories, which I find fun at least.

It's a different world but I imagine always will be.


----------



## BusLanes (Aug 17, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Don't know. Ask him - he won't bite your head off!
> 
> BTW several councillors over the years have been entitled to stand for election on the grounds that their sole or main job was in Lambeth - i.e. they were a Lambeth Councillor.



Oh I'm sure it's all legit. Anyway, are there hustings?  If not I guess I'll see him around if he's out canvassing at some point


----------



## Ms T (Aug 17, 2018)

MissL said:


> Does anyone know anywhere local to drop clothes for recycling? Stuff that the charity shop won't be able to sell on - stuff with holes, stains etc. but may be good to recycle


H&M - and they’ll give you a £5 off voucher too!


----------



## Rommers (Aug 17, 2018)

MissL said:


> Does anyone know anywhere local to drop clothes for recycling? Stuff that the charity shop won't be able to sell on - stuff with holes, stains etc. but may be good to recycle


If you take them into H&M you get 10% off any new stuff that you buy.

Edit: Oops Ms T is right, its a voucher in H&M and 10% off in &Other Stories


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 17, 2018)

Ms T said:


> H&M - and they’ll give you a £5 off voucher too!



oh that's fab... H&M is O's favourite shop now so I can now bribe her to clear out her wardrobes and get money towards new clothes!


----------



## Ms T (Aug 17, 2018)

gaijingirl said:


> oh that's fab... H&M is O's favourite shop now so I can now bribe her to clear out her wardrobes and get money towards new clothes!


My advice is to take one bag at a time for maximum voucherage!


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 17, 2018)

Ms T said:


> My advice is to take one bag at a time for maximum voucherage!



ha - cunning!


----------



## CH1 (Aug 18, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> Oh I'm sure it's all legit. Anyway, are there hustings?  If not I guess I'll see him around if he's out canvassing at some point


I don't know. In the full council election in 2014 electoral services arranged hustings in every ward.
In 2018 it only happened in certain areas arranged by a few local groups.

If you want it to happen you could contact LJAG or LETRA perhaps.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 18, 2018)

Regarding Matt Parr - his funeral will be on 31st August. Details are given here for anyone who knew him
Councillor Matt Parr | Loughborough Junction Action Group


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2018)

At the Black Cultural Archives  






Expectations exhibition: The Neil Kenlock Archive at the Black Cultural Archives runs until 28th Sept 2018


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2018)

The busking woman with the Very Big Voice is giving it too much welly outside the tube right now. My ears!


----------



## Angellic (Aug 18, 2018)

The old community centre on the edge of Angell Town and next to St John's School is being knocked down. It's been vacant for many years and was occupied by property guardians. Not sure what they are planning to do with the site. It's at the end of Angell Rd, opposite St John's.


----------



## BusLanes (Aug 18, 2018)

Angellic said:


> The old community centre on the edge of Angell Town and next to St John's School is being knocked down. It's been vacant for many years and was occupied by property guardians. Not sure what they are planning to do with the site. It's at the end of Angell Rd, opposite St John's.



Oh, is there anything up I can look at?

Was walking past Max Roach Park the other night for first time in a while and saw a lot of Property Guardian signs up around on that place on the corner


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2018)

Angellic said:


> The old community centre on the edge of Angell Town and next to St John's School is being knocked down. It's been vacant for many years and was occupied by property guardians. Not sure what they are planning to do with the site. It's at the end of Angell Rd, opposite St John's.


Property Guardians are horrendously exploitative. 

Why the occupation of this empty building highlights the housing crisis | Frank Freeman
The high price of cheap living: how the property guardianship dream soured


----------



## Angellic (Aug 18, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> Oh, is there anything up I can look at?
> 
> Was walking past Max Roach Park the other night for first time in a while and saw a lot of Property Guardian signs up around on that place on the corner



Having said that, I'm not sure that they are demolishing it but it's surrounded by Heras fencing. I'll have a look tomorrow and report back. The Guardians did seem to look after a rather disfigured cat though. I wonder what's happened to him.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 18, 2018)

editor said:


> Property Guardians are horrendously exploitative.
> 
> Why the occupation of this empty building highlights the housing crisis | Frank Freeman
> The high price of cheap living: how the property guardianship dream soured


Tbh can’t see the horrendous exploitation.


----------



## Angellic (Aug 18, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Tbh can’t see the horrendous exploitation.



Might be something to do with this.

'Property guardianship was once a win-win situation: empty buildings secured and bargain rents offered. For many the reality today is different: an underclass of renters with limited rights in grim conditions – and landowners milking the system to pay less tax. So has this small housing revolution died?'


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Tbh can’t see the horrendous exploitation.


So you don't have any problem with this at all then?


> ...an underclass of renters with limited rights in grim conditions – and landowners milking the system to pay less tax.


And you're just fine with this too? 


> “Even the better of the property guardian companies have their tenants on very short term contracts with fewer rights, and treat them as essentially unpaid security guards. With the worst companies, the overcrowding and rents charged amount to straight-up exploitation.
> 
> “Councils should not become second-class landlords by allowing their properties to be used to exploit people let down by the housing crisis. Property guardians should be treated like any other tenant, with proper health and safety rules, notice periods and protection from exploitation.”


Community spaces not exploited property guardians in empty public buildings - Sian Berry AM


----------



## CH1 (Aug 18, 2018)

Angellic said:


> The old community centre on the edge of Angell Town and next to St John's School is being knocked down. It's been vacant for many years and was occupied by property guardians. Not sure what they are planning to do with the site. It's at the end of Angell Rd, opposite St John's.


You mean the Boiler House - which the police felt compelled to raid about 10 years ago to prevent unauthorised horticulture?


----------



## Angellic (Aug 18, 2018)

CH1 said:


> You mean the Boiler House - which the police felt compelled to raid about 10 years ago to prevent unauthorised horticulture?



Possibly. Am sure it had a sign somewhere reading Community Centre. Hidden amongst the overgrowth. And around 2 or 3 years ago it was squatted by people who were growing all kinds of fruit and veg. I was given a tour of the garden and the guy I spoke with said they had permission from the council to do. I think they were living on site as well.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 18, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> Oh, is there anything up I can look at?
> 
> Was walking past Max Roach Park the other night for first time in a while and saw a lot of Property Guardian signs up around on that place on the corner



That is the Max Roach Adventure playground. 

I thought it was to be open over summer but doesn't look like it. 

Work has been done to it to repair damage.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 18, 2018)

I know a few people who have been "Guardians". The Guardian companies arent liked.

Its a great business idea. The property owner pays the Guardian company to secure a building. Then the Guardian company "rents" them out. Instead of employing security guards.

Brilliant example of capitalism at work. You have to admire the brazen cheek of the person who first dreamed this up. They get money twice and have no employees. The "Guardian" is paying the Guardian company a fee to work for them as security. Brilliant.

The Guardian has absolutely no security of tenure. The Guardian companies reckon a Guardian is not a tenant in any way.

Plus the Guardian company will send people around to check up on people. Actually entering the property unasked.


----------



## Angellic (Aug 18, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> That is the Max Roach Adventure playground.
> 
> I thought it was to be open over summer but doesn't look like it.
> 
> Work has been done to it to repair damage.



I'm fairly confident it isn't. It's marked on the plan here opposite the last Angell Rd signage, heading towards Peckford Place.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 18, 2018)

I think its the old boiler house, which has had temporary uses, but never seemed to "settle". There are cycle barriers beside it which mean you have to side-step elegantly when walking down from Angell Road into the area which used to be the Angell Town Estate.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 19, 2018)

Angellic said:


> I'm fairly confident it isn't. It's marked on the plan here opposite the last Angell Rd signage, heading towards Peckford Place.View attachment 144419 View attachment 144419



I was not disagreeing with you.

I was replying to post by Bus Lanes about walking by Max Roach park. The adventure playground in the park also has Guardians.

I know were the building you are talking about is as I sometimes cycle by it when going through Angel Town estate.


----------



## Angellic (Aug 19, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I was not disagreeing with you.
> 
> I was replying to post by Bus Lanes about walking by Max Roach park. The adventure playground in the park also has Guardians.
> 
> I know were the building you are talking about is as I sometimes cycle by it when going through Angel Town estate.



My apologies. Was at work at the time.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Aug 19, 2018)

The boiler house is being demolished. At a cost of £120,490... [pdf]

Housing is the long term aim for the site.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 19, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> The boiler house is being demolished. At a cost of £120,490... [pdf]


Did it contain a nuclear reactor or something?


----------



## northeast (Aug 19, 2018)

Usual recycled guff The complete guide to Brixton


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2018)

northeast said:


> Usual recycled guff The complete guide to Brixton



"*Most Instagrammable spots"

*


----------



## MissL (Aug 20, 2018)

It’s an age thing. All the young people at my work Instagram every bloody place they go.


----------



## lefteri (Aug 20, 2018)

Angellic said:


> Possibly. Am sure it had a sign somewhere reading Community Centre. Hidden amongst the overgrowth. And around 2 or 3 years ago it was squatted by people who were growing all kinds of fruit and veg. I was given a tour of the garden and the guy I spoke with said they had permission from the council to do. I think they were living on site as well.


They had chickens too, and turkeys


----------



## ricbake (Aug 20, 2018)

editor said:


> Lambeth says:
> 
> Clothing, textiles and shoes - reuse and recycling centre or local recycling points
> A to Z of what to do with your waste | Lambeth Council


Barnardos in Brixton bag up unusable clothes and rags for recycling which they are paid for by the people who collect them


----------



## ricbake (Aug 20, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> The boiler house is being demolished. At a cost of £120,490... [pdf]
> 
> Housing is the long term aim for the site.


There is a team of asbestos removal people there this morning


----------



## alcopop (Aug 20, 2018)

editor said:


> "*Most Instagrammable spots"
> 
> *


Those utter bastards. Taking photos and putting them online.


----------



## Mr Retro (Aug 20, 2018)

MissL said:


> It’s an age thing. All the young people at my work Instagram every bloody place they go.


I’m convinced some of my younger nieces and nephews would take part payment for their part time jobs in instagram likes.


----------



## Winot (Aug 20, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Those utter bastards. Taking photos and putting them online.



Hate it when people do that.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Those utter bastards. Taking photos and putting them online.


Way to miss the point as ever. It's about turning Brixton into a tourist hotspot. Or perhaps you just LOVE what happened to Camden.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2018)

Love this map 







Watch tube trains run in and out of Brixton (and the entire network) with this interactive map


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Aug 21, 2018)

From the Ritzy Living Wage Facebook page:

"Hello! We've been contacted by some workers at Brixton McDonald's, just over the road from the Ritzy, and we were THRILLED to hear that they're getting organised!

..and they're organising a #McStrike solidarity party at The Brixton Pound!

Things to look forward to:
Bar (free for McDonald’s workers)
Raffle with AMAZING prizes
KARAOKE!

Suggested donation: £5 unwaged/ £10 waged/ free for Brixton fast-food workers

Get your ticket now! Brixton McStrike Party | Tickets | London | Night Life | Billetto — United Kingdom

✊
Please SHARE!"


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2018)

the party's on 31 august if anyone's wondering


----------



## alcopop (Aug 21, 2018)

editor said:


> Way to miss the point as ever. It's about turning Brixton into a tourist hotspot. Or perhaps you just LOVE what happened to Camden.


You literally run a website that publicises Brixton! 

Do you not realise that?


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2018)

alcopop said:


> You literally run a website that publicises Brixton!
> 
> Do you not realise that?


 We don't endlessly and uncritically gush about every new tourist-friendly, yuppie-attracting 'Instragrammable' destination, neither do we  run advertorial features imploring trend-setters to flock into Brixton. In fact, many of our articles are critical of both Lambeth/Brixton and of some of the new chains and businesses moving into town - and you're usually the first to moan and squeal about those.

But you know that already. In the absence of an argument, you're just trying your usual ad hominem bullshit and it has to stop now.


----------



## elmpp (Aug 21, 2018)

editor said:


> Way to miss the point as ever. It's about turning Brixton into a tourist hotspot. Or perhaps you just LOVE what happened to Camden.


you've turned it into a living


----------



## alcopop (Aug 21, 2018)

editor said:


> "*Most Instagrammable spots"
> 
> *


An instagrammable spot is just a way of saying you can take nice photos there.


----------



## Angellic (Aug 21, 2018)

lefteri said:


> They had chickens too, and turkeys



They did!


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2018)

alcopop said:


> An instagrammable spot is just a way of saying you can take nice photos there.


Whatever you say, genius.


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2018)

elmpp said:


> you've turned it into a living


Have I really? Perhaps you could tell me how much I'm making from it and detail all my income streams that are generated from the website. Please. I insist.


----------



## Angellic (Aug 21, 2018)

alcopop said:


> An instagrammable spot is just a way of saying you can take nice photos there.



I don't think it's as simple as that.


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2018)

Angellic said:


> I don't think it's as simple as that.


As any fule knows. But not this one, apparently.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 21, 2018)

editor said:


> As any fule knows. But not this one, apparently.


This is a good example of ad hominem.


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2018)

alcopop said:


> This is a good example of ad hominem.


It's not actually. But in your never ending quest to disrupt threads and score points you are being thoroughly disingenuous with your stupid comment about Instagramable photos.  Can you stop now please?


----------



## elmpp (Aug 21, 2018)

it is honestly unbelievable that someone who


editor said:


> Have I really? Perhaps you could tell me how much I'm making from it and detail all my income streams that are generated from the website. Please. I insist.


As i've said in the past, running a listings website of Brixton events makes you as complicit as anyone. Sneering about people instagramming is hypocritical

I take back the "make a living" part though - your "income streams" come from elsewhere since you've chosen not to work


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2018)

elmpp said:


> I take back the "make a living" part though - your "income streams" come from elsewhere since you've chosen not to work


You've been warned and banned so many times about your conduct here, yet you still come back just to launch into unpleasant, unfounded and disruptive personal attacks that have nothing to do with the discussion. So you're banned.


----------



## isvicthere? (Aug 21, 2018)

northeast said:


> Usual recycled guff The complete guide to Brixton



"Vibrant" in the first sentence.


----------



## isvicthere? (Aug 21, 2018)

alcopop said:


> An instagrammable spot is just a way of saying you can take nice photos there.


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2018)

isvicthere? said:


> "Vibrant" in the first sentence.


Of course. That word is like hipster catnip to property developers, tourists and on-trend entrepreneurs.


----------



## ricbake (Aug 21, 2018)

Brixton has been Vibrant for over 10 years...


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Brixton has been Vibrant for over 10 years...


Wrong sort of vibrancy.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Aug 21, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> View attachment 144635


Now they need to put up a programme of the music they're playing


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2018)

LOL


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 21, 2018)

editor said:


> LOL




we've got a splash park - in Myatts Fields.  Not as big as Tamworth but not bad.  Perhaps Lambeth could instead invest in Ruskin & Streatham paddling pools which are basically maintained (just) by crowdfunding and it would be nice if Brockwell water play was more reliable too.

and why Agnes Riley gardens in particular?


----------



## BusLanes (Aug 22, 2018)

Jane is an interesting character - should be sound but she's a party loyalist through and through


----------



## Tricky Skills (Aug 22, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> Jane is an interesting character - should be sound but she's a party loyalist through and through



Yes, she is a very decent character, even though I'm not from her particular wing of the party. Her portfolio as a Cabinet member was a tough ask. I wish she could sometimes use her decent ideas to break outside of the tribal prism that contains her.

Same for most of the Cabinet tbh.


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2018)

This is what's replaced Mothercare


----------



## northeast (Aug 22, 2018)

I'd Iove to see something like this on Brixton road, realise not practical bit something needs to be done to reduce the pollution. 

Petrol and diesel cars are banned from east London roads to tackle toxic air


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2018)

Not for me but others may be interested  Free adult handstand workshops at Brixton’s Effra Social, every Thursday night


----------



## aka (Aug 22, 2018)

editor said:


> This is what's replaced Mothercare
> 
> View attachment 144686


Same thing happened at Woolies iirc. Until H&M steamed in. Trouble is we are running out of H&M type businesses. Maybe Mike will open a House of Fraser.


----------



## T & P (Aug 22, 2018)

editor said:


> Not for me but others may be interested  Free adult handstand workshops at Brixton’s Effra Social, every Thursday night


Vital life skill, that  Not mocking their offer though. Each to their own.


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2018)

T & P said:


> Vital life skill, that  Not mocking their offer though. Each to their own.


If it was some £20 a head hipster affair I'd be far less inclined to promote it, but the woman sent me a very nice email (there's no swivel-action Hoxton PR agency behind the venture, which has more or less become the norm recently) and was very enthusiastic so I thought I'd help her out. Truth is, I've always fancied being able to do proper handstands - but not enough to go along to the Effra Social.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 22, 2018)

editor said:


> If it was some £20 a head hipster affair I'd be far less inclined to promote it, but the woman sent me a very nice email (there's no swivel-action Hoxton PR agency behind the venture, which has more or less become the norm recently) and was very enthusiastic so I thought I'd help her out. Truth is, I've always fancied being able to do proper handstands - but not enough to go along to the Effra Social.



Looks like a very instagrammable thing to me I’m afraid.


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Looks like a very instagrammable thing to me I’m afraid.


Can you stop being a twat just for a second instead of trying to resurrect tedious point scoring digs? Thanks. No need to answer by the way. I'd prefer it if we stuck to Brixton as the topic.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 22, 2018)

I noticed that Dexter Adventure play ground was open today as the was gate open - only about 4 children in there though. Couldn't see any adult supervision going on, but perhaps they were indoors.


----------



## lefteri (Aug 22, 2018)

northeast said:


> I'd Iove to see something like this on Brixton road, realise not practical bit something needs to be done to reduce the pollution.
> 
> Petrol and diesel cars are banned from east London roads to tackle toxic air


I guess when the ULEZ properly comes in (in 2020?) then there’ll be a drastic reduction in polluting vehicles as Brixton road will be within it


----------



## lefteri (Aug 22, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> Jane is an interesting character - should be sound but she's a party loyalist through and through


She was responsible for shutting down a load of lambeth’s libraries, I can’t see her as in any way sound


----------



## aka (Aug 22, 2018)

lefteri said:


> She was responsible for shutting down a load of lambeth’s libraries, I can’t see her as in any way sound


Jane's unfortunately a bit 'what did Lib say?'.  I honestly think the entire council should just be 3 people and a big spreadsheet.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 22, 2018)

aka said:


> Jane's unfortunately a bit 'what did Lib say?'.  I honestly think the entire council should just be 3 people and a big spreadsheet.



She was actually worse. I met her at meetings when she was Cabinet member. In Brixton a lot of the older people who work in community groups are old Labour. The gulf in understanding and complete lack of anything in common between Jane, a full on advocate of the centre ground/ Third Way and my older community minded friends was something to behold.

As friend of mine said she doesn't even treat these people with respect. I agree.

Corbyn phenomenon has been given a lot of stick recently. Latest is anti semitism. I see from some of the new Labour Cllrs Twitter they are banging on about that now. Having unsuccessfully tried to get rid of Corbyn once. Because he supports Palestinians.

Jane didn't look to see what Lib said. From what I saw she was true believer in Third Way.

To be frank people like her are just right wing.

The Corbyn phenomenon isn't about him. Its about a lot of people of all ages who have been excluded and ignored for years finally maybe becoming the mainstream.

Not having a go at Jane personally but her politics imo have nothing to offer to ordinary people.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 23, 2018)

lefteri said:


> She was responsible for shutting down a load of lambeth’s libraries, I can’t see her as in any way sound



Didn’t know she was in central government.

Alex


----------



## northeast (Aug 23, 2018)

Looks like work has sarted on replacin the Bourguest sign


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 23, 2018)

northeast said:


> Looks like work has sarted on replacin the Bourguest sign



  I have an inexplicable fondness for that sign.


----------



## lefteri (Aug 23, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Didn’t know she was in central government.
> 
> Alex


Central government didn’t shut down Lambeth’s libraries


----------



## alex_ (Aug 23, 2018)

lefteri said:


> Central government didn’t shut down Lambeth’s libraries



Sure they didn’t.

Whoever could have imagined the nationwide impact of a Lambeth councillor List of withdrawn libraries

Alex


----------



## lefteri (Aug 23, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Sure they didn’t.
> 
> Whoever could have imagined the nationwide impact of a Lambeth councillor List of withdrawn libraries
> 
> Alex


So because other councils closed libraries it wasn’t Lambeth’s decision? And yet many councils haven’t closed any. And the meeting I was at where Lambeth’s oversight committee examined its own decision to close libraries? I must have dreamt it. You need to school yourself


----------



## alex_ (Aug 23, 2018)

lefteri said:


> So because other councils closed libraries it wasn’t Lambeth’s decision? And yet many councils haven’t closed any. And the meeting I was at where Lambeth’s oversight committee examined its own decision to close libraries? I must have dreamt it. You need to school yourself



I’m not sure what any of this means.

Are you saying I think Lambeth didn’t close any libraries ?

Alex


----------



## lefteri (Aug 23, 2018)

alex_ said:


> I’m not sure what any of this means.
> 
> Are you saying I think Lambeth didn’t close any libraries ?
> 
> Alex


I’ve no idea what you think Alex, maybe you should try articulating it instead of dropping gnomic sarky comments


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Sure they didn’t.
> 
> Whoever could have imagined the nationwide impact of a Lambeth councillor List of withdrawn libraries
> 
> Alex


How many popular and flourishing libraries have been handed over, rent-free, to private commercial gym companies without any consultation or competitive bidding? How many have had vast sums of money spent on them to facilitate the aforementioned private gym? And how many library closures have been fought so hard with lengthy occupations and huge marches through the centre of town?












Not all councils have closed libraries. Not all councils are throwing millions at a vanity New Town Hall, while trying to undemocratically flatten long standing communities either, come to think of it.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2018)

Yay! An equality-fighting gym! Or something. For £200+ membership.



> This September will see the opening of an *F45 fitness studio in Brixton *by a woman dedicated to bringing women from Brixton out into the open to remedy the fact that they are often excluded from health and fitness activities. Yemi is particularly interested in targeting women of colour as she feels they are underrepresented by advertising for gyms, health groups, lifestyle-based activities and much more due to predominately euro-centric advertising, assumptions and social pressures. Yemi has worked in the fitness industry for over 15 years across three different continents and knows first-hand how the racial diversity of health and fitness experts in the industry is lacking globally. This could be due to fewer media personalities of colour promoting health and fitness. This could all be changed if the fitness industry were to promote more careers to ethnic minority communities, and then there would be a greater proportion of fitness and health across the board.
> 
> Already a huge success in Australia, F45 is one of the world’s fastest growing fitness franchise concepts with over 1,150 studios across 36 countries. The F45 Brixton studio will be the cornerstone of the community and Yemi is currently seeking government funding to help her run a community outreach programme which will start by offering a number of community classes during non-peak hours every day.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Aug 23, 2018)

Jeez you'd want to do a lot of classes for £220 a month.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2018)

Brixton, last night: 
















In photos: Late night jam session at Brixton’s 414 Club, Weds 22nd Aug 2018


----------



## aka (Aug 23, 2018)

£200 a month is a lot of dosh for a gym membership.  Brockwell Lido is £55 all you can eat, but if Yemi offers foc classes during the day then good for her.


editor said:


> Yay! An equality-fighting gym! Or something. For £200+ membership.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2018)

aka said:


> £200 a month is a lot of dosh for a gym membership.  Brockwell Lido is £55 all you can eat, but if Yemi offers foc classes during the day then good for her.


Given all the _fighting for the underclasses_ rhetoric, I asked if they'd be giving free classes to the poor and for those on benefits. I didn't get a straight answer.


----------



## technical (Aug 23, 2018)

£200 a month for gym membership!!!???

I’d want to live in the chuffing gym for that price


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2018)

technical said:


> £200 a month for gym membership!!!???
> 
> I’d want to live in the chuffing gym for that price


They haven't announced their Brixton prices yet, but a month to month contract is £220/month here, with the 'cheapest' option - a 6 month minimum membership - being £185 per month. Which at £2,200 a year still strikes me as a _shitload_ of disposable income, with or without all the 'promoting diversity' guff.


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2018)

Competition for tonight!
Tonight! Win tickets for Drum’n’Bass special at Club 414 with Septabeat playing live – Fri 24th Aug


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2018)

Some photos from last night st the Prince of Wales: 
















In photos: Banger Factory live jazz at Brixton’s Prince of Wales, Thurs 23rd Aug 2018


----------



## lefteri (Aug 25, 2018)

Is there anywhere in Brixton to buy merguez since the Moroccan deli place in station road closed?


----------



## Ms T (Aug 25, 2018)

lefteri said:


> Is there anywhere in Brixton to buy merguez since the Moroccan deli place in station road closed?


I don’t think so. Closest place I’ve found is opposite the Decorators Mate in Streatham. I think it’s called the Mediterranean Food Centre and there’s a separate butcher attached.


----------



## lefteri (Aug 25, 2018)

Ms T said:


> I don’t think so. Closest place I’ve found is opposite the Decorators Mate in Streatham. I think it’s called the Mediterranean Food Centre and there’s a separate butcher attached.


A damn I just went past there before I saw this - thanks, will know next time!


----------



## blameless77 (Aug 25, 2018)

editor said:


> Love this map
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My friend made that!


----------



## lefteri (Aug 25, 2018)

Does anyone have contact details for the steel band that regularly play outside Iceland?


----------



## editor (Aug 25, 2018)

414 last night:


----------



## MissL (Aug 26, 2018)

Just walked down Popes Road by Sports Direct/ Van Mildert. It's killed it. Totally killed it.


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2018)

MissL said:


> Just walked down Popes Road by Sports Direct/ Van Mildert. It's killed it. Totally killed it.


It's awful. A total dead zone. Bland and corporate and lifeless.


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2018)

Campaigners set up a Brixton-Brexit-Ometer outside the tube – and get emphatic results


----------



## xsunnysuex (Aug 27, 2018)

MissL said:


> Just walked down Popes Road by Sports Direct/ Van Mildert. It's killed it. Totally killed it.


It has totally been ruined.   Such a shame.  I miss all those shops.  Especially the big pound & plus one.  where I could mostly buy anything I needed.


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> It has totally been ruined.   Such a shame.  I miss all those shops.  Especially the big pound & plus one.  where I could mostly buy anything I needed.


It really is like the entire life and soul of the street has been sucked out by those two fucking awful corporate behemoths. That market has been there for over a hundred years and now it's dead on its arse.


----------



## BusLanes (Aug 27, 2018)

editor said:


> Campaigners set up a Brixton-Brexit-Ometer outside the tube – and get emphatic results



Interesting - that's Another Europe is possible - following on from the local Lambeth for Europe's Brexitometer earlier in the week at the same - then Streatham for Europe was up in Norbury last weekend with it as well


----------



## catriona (Aug 27, 2018)

Re Pope's Rd, the DIY supplies shop just round the corner under the railway on Brixton Station Rd is still going. I just bought a 30p washer there which sorted my leaking shower head, and some Araldite. Great place for all sorts of hardware like light bulbs, brushes, fuses, sink plugs, mousetraps, potting compost... Use it or lose it!


----------



## BusLanes (Aug 27, 2018)

Oh and Lib Dems a couple of weeks back in Windrush Square as well


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2018)

Just walked past Pope's Road. Moribund.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 28, 2018)

MissL said:


> Just walked down Popes Road by Sports Direct/ Van Mildert. It's killed it. Totally killed it.


When I last walked there there were no stalls in front of the shops - are they permanently gone now?

I liked the general shop that was there before - I think that was one of the few places left around the market to buy household stuff like decorating stuff, paint and tools. Does any where still sell paint in Brixton now?  I still miss Force Homecare.


----------



## editor (Aug 28, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> When I last walked there there were no stalls in front of the shops - are they permanently gone now?


Seems so.  At best there's a couple of stalls opposite but I've never seen anything directly in front of the Sports Direct monstrosity.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 28, 2018)

editor said:


> Seems so.  At best there's a couple of stalls opposite but I've never seen anything directly in front of the Sports Direct monstrosity.


Well at least their shoppers get a clear view of the public toilets then.


----------



## lefteri (Aug 28, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> When I last walked there there were no stalls in front of the shops - are they permanently gone now?
> 
> I liked the general shop that was there before - I think that was one of the few places left around the market to buy household stuff like decorating stuff, paint and tools. Does any where still sell paint in Brixton now?  I still miss Force Homecare.


There’s a decorator’s merchants on acre lane, roughly opposite lidl


----------



## ChrisSouth (Aug 29, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Well at least their shoppers get a clear view of the public toilets then.


They were there last night about 5.30pm. To be fair, 6.48pm on a wet Monday bank holiday isn't really representative of moribundness


----------



## xsunnysuex (Aug 29, 2018)

ChrisSouth said:


> They were there last night about 5.30pm. To be fair, 6.48pm on a wet Monday bank holiday isn't really representative of moribundness


I passed through at around 3pm yesterday.  It was as dead as a dodo.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Aug 29, 2018)

Quadrant DIY in Stockwell is good for paint and general DIY materials, the bloke who runs is it refreshingly honest and won't up sell you and gives decent advice. 
I miss Pound Plus on Popes Rd though, it had everything.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 29, 2018)

Just to remind people of an old Urban post. 1956 - with coal merchants lingering on on the right hand side and the toilet block already built. The coal merchants were replaced with a Tesco store at some time in the 1960s presumably.

Back in the 1970s/80s Popes Road outside Tescos was certainly busy. Not sure if as  crowded with stalls as this pre Tesco photo.  I also remember taxis touting for business from heavily laden shoppers when the store morphed into Kwik Save.


----------



## David Clapson (Aug 29, 2018)

Has anyone heard of a striped tabby cat going missing? There's one in Rushcroft Road trying to adopt me. It's slim, seems in good condition. My own cat is outraged.


----------



## David Clapson (Aug 29, 2018)

catriona said:


> Re Pope's Rd, the DIY supplies shop just round the corner under the railway on Brixton Station Rd is still going. I just bought a 30p washer there which sorted my leaking shower head, and some Araldite. Great place for all sorts of hardware like light bulbs, brushes, fuses, sink plugs, mousetraps, potting compost... Use it or lose it!


I'm a big fan, always trying to use it. Great service.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 30, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Quadrant DIY in Stockwell is good for paint and general DIY materials, the bloke who runs is it refreshingly honest and won't up sell you and gives decent advice.
> I miss Pound Plus on Popes Rd though, it had everything.



There are several places I go to in Stockwell. The plumbers merchant near Quadrant. Also the DIY store near the tube station which is open Sundays. Been a godsend. And has everything. Says something about what has happened to Brixton that I have to go to Stockwell to get DIY building materials. Brixton is basically a place for "eateries" now. Not for what the ordinary person needs.


----------



## lefteri (Aug 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> There are several places I go to in Stockwell. The plumbers merchant near Quadrant. Also the DIY store near the tube station which is open Sundays. Been a godsend. And has everything. Says something about what has happened to Brixton that I have to go to Stockwell to get DIY building materials. Brixton is basically a place for "eateries" now. Not for what the ordinary person needs.


I agree with you about Brixton’s trajectory- but was it really much better in the past for DIY? Ten years ago I can remember the paint shop on Brixton Road but I can’t being to mind any other shops that have since closed


----------



## Angellic (Aug 30, 2018)

Portrait of Brixton – in pictures


----------



## theboris (Aug 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> There are several places I go to in Stockwell. The plumbers merchant near Quadrant. Also the DIY store near the tube station which is open Sundays. Been a godsend. And has everything. Says something about what has happened to Brixton that I have to go to Stockwell to get DIY building materials. Brixton is basically a place for "eateries" now. Not for what the ordinary person needs.


There is still Brixton Hardware on Acre Lane - pretty much opposite Lidl and the huge Screwfix on Lyham Rd


----------



## theboris (Aug 30, 2018)

David Clapson said:


> Has anyone heard of a striped tabby cat going missing? There's one in Rushcroft Road trying to adopt me. It's slim, seems in good condition. My own cat is outraged.


Have you tried Nextdoor is the free private social network for your neighbourhood community. ? Half the posts on there are about lost cats.

I'm not plugging nextdoor, it's interminably dull


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2018)

Photo feature: 











Photo feature: Brixton’s decrepit phone boxes, Aug 2018


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2018)

Next month: Queer Walking Tour of Brixton, Herne Hill station, Sun Sept 16th 2018


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Aug 30, 2018)

i see that the Wednesday Jam thing that was running at the 414 has moved to the Queens Head.


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2018)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> i see that the Wednesday Jam thing that was running at the 414 has moved to the Queens Head.


Yep but the 414 is still carrying on with its own live jam night, headed up by Be Atwell from Alabama 3. So Wednesday is going to be a bloody great night out in Brixton!


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2018)

Drop me a PM if you want a free guest place:

Free guest list for Beyoncé to Britpop party with Brixton Buzz at Market House, Fri 31st Aug 2018


----------



## Ms T (Aug 30, 2018)

David Clapson said:


> Has anyone heard of a striped tabby cat going missing? There's one in Rushcroft Road trying to adopt me. It's slim, seems in good condition. My own cat is outraged.


You could take it to a vet who will check for a chip? 

This happened to us a few years. Similar outrage from our two resident furry parasites. The interloper wasn’t chipped and still had bollocks. We now have three cats! The stray had to forfeit his knackers but he didn’t seem to mind too much when it meant Gourmet Perla on tap.


----------



## alcopop (Aug 30, 2018)

editor said:


> Photo feature:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very instagrammable!


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Very instagrammable!


I've asked you before and I'll say it again: can you stop being such a twat, please? Thanks.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 30, 2018)

lefteri said:


> I agree with you about Brixton’s trajectory- but was it really much better in the past for DIY? Ten years ago I can remember the paint shop on Brixton Road but I can’t being to mind any other shops that have since closed



When I was first in Brixton there was a good tool shop in Coldharbour lane plus a DIY shop as bit later.

The DIY shops in Stockwell are fairly recent. For some reason the building materials area is now Stockwell.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 30, 2018)

lefteri said:


> I agree with you about Brixton’s trajectory- but was it really much better in the past for DIY? Ten years ago I can remember the paint shop on Brixton Road but I can’t being to mind any other shops that have since closed


I'm probably thinking of more that 10 years ago - but you could buy decorating stuff at Woolies, Fads, Force Homecare and I think there was another one as well.


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2018)

If any of you ever saw James Pyke play the Offline nights, you might be interested to see what he's doing now:


----------



## lefteri (Aug 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> When I was first in Brixton there was a good tool shop in Coldharbour lane plus a DIY shop as bit later.
> 
> The DIY shops in Stockwell are fairly recent. For some reason the building materials area is now Stockwell.


And the industrial estate off King’s ave where Fulham timber is now which has a toolstation and screwfix- dunno what you call that area, Clapham?


----------



## CH1 (Aug 30, 2018)

lefteri said:


> And the industrial estate off King’s ave where Fulham timber is now which has a toolstation and screwfix- dunno what you call that area, Clapham?


That's Brixton Hill ward but Clapham Park geographically.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> When I was first in Brixton there was a good tool shop in Coldharbour lane plus a DIY shop as bit later.


It was this shop you remember - currently being redeveloped as (Lexadon) flats with (presumably) bars underneath


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 30, 2018)

lefteri said:


> And the industrial estate off King’s ave where Fulham timber is now which has a toolstation and screwfix- dunno what you call that area, Clapham?



I don't regard that area as Brixton.

I don't have a car so local shops are important. Why Brixton has to be full of eateries which are of no use to me I don't understand. 

I do use Screwfix but its a treck getting up there.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 30, 2018)

CH1 said:


> It was this shop you remember - currently being redeveloped as (Lexadon) flats with (presumably) bars underneath
> View attachment 145575



Yes that is the one.


----------



## lefteri (Aug 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I don't regard that area as Brixton.
> 
> I don't have a car so local shops are important. Why Brixton has to be full of eateries which are of no use to me I don't understand.
> 
> I do use Screwfix but its a treck getting up there.


No it’s just outside Brixton and if you live on the other side like I do it’s a pain - it’s a shame there’s nothing in camberwell either


----------



## brixtonblade (Aug 31, 2018)

lefteri said:


> No it’s just outside Brixton and if you live on the other side like I do it’s a pain - it’s a shame there’s nothing in camberwell either


Isn't there a DIY shop at the end of Coldharbour Lane? Howard?


----------



## lefteri (Aug 31, 2018)

Ah shit yeah you’re right, I’ve never been in there for some reason - I’m not even sure if it’s still there or not


----------



## Cold Harbour (Aug 31, 2018)

brixtonblade said:


> Isn't there a DIY shop at the end of Coldharbour Lane? Howard?


Howard's is still here (at CHL/Denmark Hill crossroads) providing brilliant service. I was going to post about them but thought SE5 might have been a step too far for the Brixton forum!


----------



## editor (Aug 31, 2018)

It felt like the old days in Brixton last night: 


















Faces of Brixton – a Thursday night on the town in photos, 30th Aug 2018


----------



## prunus (Sep 1, 2018)

lefteri said:


> No it’s just outside Brixton and if you live on the other side like I do it’s a pain - it’s a shame there’s nothing in camberwell either



It doesn’t look like it, and it doesn’t make any effort to actually let anyone know, but the ‘motor spares’ shop opposite tesco in Loughborough junction is actually pretty good for general DIY stuff - certainly on the hardware/tools/ironmongery/fittings side (not sure about paint - though I think they do sell brushes and rollers etc).  Worth checking before venturing further afield (if you’re LJ adjacent anyway).


----------



## Rushy (Sep 1, 2018)

There's a big paint shop more or less opposite Acre Lane timber. Seems to have most stuff. It's an independent. Handyman's further up the road was taken over by Brewers.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 1, 2018)

prunus said:


> It doesn’t look like it, and it doesn’t make any effort to actually let anyone know, but the ‘motor spares’ shop opposite tesco in Loughborough junction is actually pretty good for general DIY stuff - certainly on the hardware/tools/ironmongery/fittings side (not sure about paint - though I think they do sell brushes and rollers etc).  Worth checking before venturing further afield (if you’re LJ adjacent anyway).



Ive bought white emulsion paint from him.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2018)

Did anyone go to the Congregate thing today?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 1, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Ive bought white emulsion paint from him.



nudge nudge, wink wink


----------



## alcopop (Sep 1, 2018)

Rushy said:


> There's a big paint shop more or less opposite Acre Lane timber. Seems to have most stuff. It's an independent. Handyman's further up the road was taken over by Brewers.


There used to be two handyman’s didn’t there?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 2, 2018)

editor said:


> Did anyone go to the Congregate thing today?


No but it looked very happy and friendly - I was in Vida's cafe with the revolting old queers, so we had a good veiw of it. It was all over by 9.30pm.

Went to the BeeHive after - haven't been there in years - it was a lot nicer than I remember it anyway.


----------



## Winot (Sep 2, 2018)

alcopop said:


> There used to be two handyman’s didn’t there?



There were two shops owned by the same people, one on each side of the road. One was paint and the other hardware. Now just the one (on the north side). As Rushy says owned by Brewers.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2018)

Some Brixton pics: 









































In photos: Brixton street scenes, July-August 2018


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 3, 2018)

How was the umbrella event friendofdorothy?


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2018)

Brixton tonight Lambeth Housing Activists meeting tonight in Brixton, 7pm Mon 3rd Sept


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 3, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> How was the umbrella event friendofdorothy?


energising! Thanks for asking.  Our facilitator described it as a moving meditation and it was. It was very different and fun! Talking to some of the others - one who has been very ill and one who is over 80, both said they felt really good the next morning.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 3, 2018)

I'm a bit mystified by the lengthy discussion above, bemoaning how various DIY shops are good but not really in Brixton, and how Brixton is all full of eateries and no DIY shops, when the one that is right in the middle of Brixton has already been mentioned; it's on Brixton Station Rd and is perfectly good for most basic stuff. 

 

Brixton is not a DIY supplies desert. The appearance of Screwfix and Toolstation relatively nearby have improved the overall situation considerably, as the nearest ones were previously much further away, although I do wonder if they take business away from the aforementioned smaller shops.


----------



## isvicthere? (Sep 3, 2018)

I seem to remember a DIY shop down Brixton Water Lane, next to a greasy spoon caff, between Mango Landin' and Hootananny. All flats now.


----------



## alcopop (Sep 3, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I'm a bit mystified by the lengthy discussion above, bemoaning how various DIY shops are good but not really in Brixton, and how Brixton is all full of eateries and no DIY shops, when the one that is right in the middle of Brixton has already been mentioned; it's on Brixton Station Rd and is perfectly good for most basic stuff.
> 
> View attachment 146013
> 
> Brixton is not a DIY supplies desert. The appearance of Screwfix and Toolstation relatively nearby have improved the overall situation considerably, as the nearest ones were previously much further away, although I do wonder if they take business away from the aforementioned smaller shops.


Where’s toolstation?


----------



## teuchter (Sep 3, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Where’s toolstation?


Opposite Screwfix now.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2018)

isvicthere? said:


> I seem to remember a DIY shop down Brixton Water Lane, next to a greasy spoon caff, between Mango Landin' and Hootananny. All flats now.


I grabbed a few pics before it all disappeared: 











A walk down Brixton Water Lane, Brixton, Lambeth, London SW9


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 4, 2018)

The afropunkfest thing is back 

AFROPUNK FEST London


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> The afropunkfest thing is back
> 
> AFROPUNK FEST London


I see the Department Store has actually turned into a fully commercial venue rather than the free community space that seemed to have been suggested  in their earlier press releases.


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 4, 2018)

Of all the things you could have discussed re. that festival...


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Of all the things you could have discussed re. that festival...


I bothered to look up the programme and saw that many of its events were taking place at the Dept Store - and I was surprised that they were commercial events.  I think that's an entirely reasonable observation.


----------



## alcopop (Sep 4, 2018)

editor said:


> I see the Department Store has actually turned into a fully commercial venue rather than the free community space that seemed to have been suggested  in their earlier press releases.


“Seemed to have been suggested “

Not exactly a concrete statement then?


----------



## T & P (Sep 4, 2018)

Please, let's not allow an interesting, multi-faceted event taking place in many venues across Brixton over eight days to get in the way of the chance to land a blow on the Department Store.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2018)

alcopop said:


> “Seemed to have been suggested “
> 
> Not exactly a concrete statement then?


Maybe you forgot all their guff about how they wanted to become part of _Brixton's vibrant community_, and perhaps open up all that vast empty space they've grabbed for themselves, but no matter. I've no interest in having any kind of discussion with you.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2018)

T & P said:


> Please, let's not allow an interesting, multi-faceted event taking place in many venues across Brixton over eight days to get in the way of the chance to land a blow on the Department Store.


So they're beyond criticism in your eyes?


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2018)

I'm not quite getting the humour here


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 4, 2018)

editor said:


> I see the Department Store has actually turned into a fully commercial venue rather than the free community space that seemed to have been suggested  in their earlier press releases.



I see one event is at The Ritzy....

You'd think Afropunk would be supporting the Boycott...


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 4, 2018)

Well indeed, likewise with lots of the attendees like Akala etc. who have supported workers rights elsewhere. Perhaps they're not aware of the boycott either? 

If you're showing a film, it's there or Whirled isn't it?


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Well indeed, likewise with lots of the attendees like Akala etc. who have supported workers rights elsewhere. Perhaps they're not aware of the boycott either?


Maybe be, maybe not, but if you type 'Brixton Ritzy' into Google, a reference to the boycott comes up  on the first page of results (and loads of subsequent results) and it's had huge publicity over the years. But as we've seen right here, some people don't believe in supporting the workers or the boycott.

Oh, and it's not a film that's being shown at their Ritzy event. It'd an exhibition running till 17th Sept. 

AFROPUNK: Edward Ofosu (2018-09-05)


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 4, 2018)

Not wanting to put words into your mouth, but are you suggesting they (the artists etc) are aware of the boycott? 

As an aside, I've been to the ritzy once in the last two years due to the boycott - and that one time was for coffee with a senior UK charity (and ex LB lambeth) leader who had no idea of what was going on. That person can barely manage a twitter account, and is one of those sort of people who doesn't have a computer... there's another charity running a meet & greet event there soon. I've emailed them to say I'd like to go, but I'm not going to visit the ritzy - for the boycott reasons. They wrote back saying that they had no idea the boycott was on.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Not wanting to put words into your mouth, but are you suggesting they (the artists etc) are aware of the boycott?


How on earth can I know the answer to that? Some may know about it and choose - like some posters here - to selectively ignore it, and perhaps others don't know about it all.

That said, it's certainly not hard to find out about the boycott.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 4, 2018)

editor said:


> Maybe be, maybe not, but if you type 'Brixton Ritzy' into Google, a reference to the boycott comes up  on the first page of results (and loads of subsequent results) and it's had huge publicity over the years. But as we've seen right here, some people don't believe in supporting the workers or the boycott.
> 
> Oh, and it's not a film that's being shown at their Ritzy event. It'd an exhibition running till 17th Sept.
> 
> AFROPUNK: Edward Ofosu (2018-09-05)



And a Poetry event...


----------



## Winot (Sep 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Not wanting to put words into your mouth, but are you suggesting they (the artists etc) are aware of the boycott?
> 
> As an aside, I've been to the ritzy once in the last two years due to the boycott - and that one time was for coffee with a senior UK charity (and ex LB lambeth) leader who had no idea of what was going on. That person can barely manage a twitter account, and is one of those sort of people who doesn't have a computer... there's another charity running a meet & greet event there soon. I've emailed them to say I'd like to go, but I'm not going to visit the ritzy - for the boycott reasons. They wrote back saying that they had no idea the boycott was on.



Friends of mine from East Dulwich recently suggested seeing a film at the Ritzy. They are clued up and left-leaning but had no idea about the boycott or the campaign. When I told them they said they weren't going to go after all and that they would write to Cineworld, i.e. they were fully supportive.


----------



## alcopop (Sep 4, 2018)

editor said:


> Maybe you forgot all their guff about how they wanted to become part of _Brixton's vibrant community_, and perhaps open up all that vast empty space they've grabbed for themselves, but no matter. I've no interest in having any kind of discussion with you.


If they have not broken a concrete promise that they made then I have no interest.

I suspect they went back on something that happened in one of your fever dreams


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2018)

If anyone is looking for an independent alternative to the Ritzy:


----------



## BusLanes (Sep 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> The afropunkfest thing is back
> 
> AFROPUNK FEST London



Worth going to?


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2018)

I reckon Wednesdays are the best night out in Brixton these days - even more so now that there's two live music venues open till 3am 

Going out in Brixton on a Wednesday night – the best bars, gigs and venues


----------



## sealion (Sep 5, 2018)

The hootananny had some nice live reggae playing as i passed last night. I think it was band doing covers,they sounded very good!


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2018)

Come and listen to the inventor of the Tangleteezer


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 5, 2018)




----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2018)

Any news about Stuart The Watchman?


----------



## sparkybird (Sep 5, 2018)

Popped into the Effra this evening.. amazing music, shame it wasn't busier but everyone there seemed to be enjoying themselves.


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2018)

Photos from last night's jam session at the Queen's Head 


















In photos: Wicked Wednesday music jam at the Queen’s Head, Stockwell, 5th Sept 2018


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2018)

Not sure I have many concerns about licensing late at night.


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2018)

Another great addition to Windrush Square


----------



## brixtonblade (Sep 7, 2018)

Miracles, eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2018)

editor said:


> Another great addition to Windrush Square
> 
> View attachment 146352


Who should be erased from human history, the question


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2018)

It's the fucking end 






Brewdog coming to Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


----------



## brixtonblade (Sep 7, 2018)

editor said:


> It's the fucking end
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WTF is that picture all about?


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2018)

brixtonblade said:


> WTF is that picture all about?


Them being total cunts.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 7, 2018)

Well at least Brewdog are accredited living wage employers, unlike any current Brixton bars, is that right?


----------



## MissL (Sep 7, 2018)

editor said:


> It's the fucking end
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Urgh. Hideous.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 7, 2018)

editor said:


> It's the fucking end
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They do Brewdog Punk IPA at the Beehive now - but at £3.49 - £1.20 more than regular guest ales I shouldn't think it's a big seller. But being pasteurised and on gas it would last for ever. Tank/keg beer has moved on from the days of Watneys Red Barrel though - it's quite palatable.

Let us know what Brewdog charge in their own premises, when it opens!


----------



## CH1 (Sep 7, 2018)

editor said:


> Another great addition to Windrush Square
> View attachment 146352


This outfit is from Croydon. Their website is very ambitious - giving their bank details for donations (they also take donations via Paypal and GoCardless).
The donation page has a promotional video - showing them outside the Ann Summers shop in North End Croydon. Jesus The Answer Campaign

There is a lack of information on the staff however. Unlike my favourite local church - Bishop Climate Ministries, whose bishop hails from Kenya, but managed to acquire a prison sentence for GBH whilst operating as a bouncer in Edinburgh.

It takes all types, but all in all I like to know who I'm dealing with.


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Let us know what Brewdog charge in their own premises, when it opens!


I won''t be setting foot in the fucking place but here's their Camden menu











https://www.zomato.com/london/brewdog-camden-town/menu#tabtop


----------



## CH1 (Sep 8, 2018)

editor said:


> I won''t be setting foot in the fucking place but here's their Camden menu
> https://www.zomato.com/london/brewdog-camden-town/menu#tabtop


Don't forget they produced Brixton Porter to celebrate opening Brewdog Brixton in 2013
You commented on it at the time I believe RateBeer


----------



## BusLanes (Sep 8, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Don't forget they produced Brixton Porter to celebrate opening Brewdog Brixton in 2013
> You commented on it at the time I believe RateBeer



Oh so this isn't the first time they've tried? Where was it last time?


----------



## CH1 (Sep 8, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> Oh so this isn't the first time they've tried? Where was it last time?


It seems like they were after the premises now known as The Rum Kitchen but the deal never went through for some reason.
I'm sure there are insiders on here who can fill in the details.

That was back in 2013.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Sep 8, 2018)

Ok what's the deal with pay point in Brixton?  We can't seem to find anywhere now to top up the key  	  Any one know of anywhere hiding out of view?


----------



## discobastard (Sep 9, 2018)

editor said:


> I won''t be setting foot in the fucking place but here's their Camden menu
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those prices look pretty reasonable don’t they?

It’s great that they pay the London Living Wage. I’m sure Brixton residents will support them as a result, because I know that’s really important in terms of where people decide to spend their money.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 9, 2018)

editor said:


> It's the fucking end
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here is some context. 

Discounted pink beer for women? BrewDog hasn’t gone nearly far enough | Charlie Brinkhurst-Cuff

It doesn’t excuse anything but it does help to give a more balanced picture than one might normally see here.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 9, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Those prices look pretty reasonable don’t they?
> 
> It’s great that they pay the London Living Wage. I’m sure Brixton residents will support them as a result, because I know that’s really important in terms of where people decide to spend their money.



Brewdog may well be the first “nighttime economy” payer of the living wage in Brixton.

Bet all that happens is people whine about their prices.

Alex


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 9, 2018)

They're pricks, but they pay the recommended minimum....

That let's 'em off being pricks then.....

Cool....thumbs up

Tally ho....

Next stop.....poster campaign with a girl in underwear drinking beer...

Scratch that....already been there....


----------



## Winot (Sep 9, 2018)

A possible way out of this conundrum: applaud their payment of the LLW and boo their sexist marketing. 

Extraordinary to report this to U75, but the picture is often _complicated_.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Here is some context.
> 
> Discounted pink beer for women? BrewDog hasn’t gone nearly far enough | Charlie Brinkhurst-Cuff
> 
> It doesn’t excuse anything but it does help to give a more balanced picture than one might normally see here.


How about the 'context' of them sacking a worker for going blind? Or their advertising featuring sexy women in stockings standing around them? 

Brewdog to payout £12,000 after sacking worker who faced turning blind


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Those prices look pretty reasonable don’t they?


Which ones exactly? Like £17 for a 330ml can?


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

Winot said:


> A possible way out of this conundrum: applaud their payment of the LLW and boo their sexist marketing.
> 
> Extraordinary to report this to U75, but the picture is often _complicated_.


Are you pleased to have another multinational drinking chain moving into Coldharbour Lane?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 9, 2018)

Winot said:


> A possible way out of this conundrum: applaud their payment of the LLW and boo their sexist marketing.
> 
> Extraordinary to report this to U75, but the picture is often _complicated_.



What bit are you finding complicated?


----------



## alcopop (Sep 9, 2018)

Hilarious as ever


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

Good news! Start the Watchman is back!


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

They're doing one of those dreadful house raffles in Brixton 
Raffle House


----------



## alex_ (Sep 9, 2018)

editor said:


> How about the 'context' of them sacking a worker for going blind? Or their advertising featuring sexy women in stockings standing around them?
> 
> Brewdog to payout £12,000 after sacking worker who faced turning blind



Yup, this is ludicrous.

Alex


----------



## alex_ (Sep 9, 2018)

editor said:


> Which ones exactly? Like £17 for a 330ml can?



There are also £3.5 cans.

A menu has expensive items and cheaper items, oh the humanity !

Alex


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

alex_ said:


> There are also £3.5 cans.


Yes, tiny 330ml ones that work out at nearly £7 for a pint. How about the vast majority of their other beers - aAre those prices  'reasonable' to you?  Please tell me.

Those kind of prices may be be fine for the West End but this is in one of the most deprived wards in London where there is real poverty. This is just another example of divisive gentrification.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 9, 2018)

editor said:


> Yes, tiny 330ml ones that work out at nearly £7 for a pint. Is that 'reasonable' to you?  Please tell me.
> 
> Those kind of prices may be be fine for the West End but this is in one of the most deprived wards in London where there is real poverty.



Packaged drinks are always more expensive than draft by volume.

A menu has some expensive items and some less expensive items - that’s what a menu is - a set of choices.

I wouldn’t drink a 45 pound a litre beer, because it’s probably an 11% imperial porter or something else ludicrous.

You seem to be continually offended that there are expensive things on sale in Brixton.

Alex


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

alex_ said:


> A menu has some expensive items and some less expensive items


What percentage of affordable items are on that menu then? What's the cheapest pint?



alex_ said:


> You seem to be continually offended that there are expensive things on sale in Brixton.


Don't put words in my mouth, please. I am not happy to see yet another multinational move into Brixton - particularly one that sacks people for going blind - and when those places are unaffordable to a large amount of long term residents, I find nothing to celebrate.

This is what gentrification does: it provides more and more expensive places for well heeled incomers and excludes those who can't afford them - and in time, such places start to dominate the area, leaving more and more people disenfranchised, excluded and/or eventually priced out.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 9, 2018)

editor said:


> Good news! Start the Watchman is back!



Saw him working two weeks ago I think


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 9, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Hilarious as ever



Go on, which bit?


----------



## alcopop (Sep 9, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Go on, which bit?


The spittle flecked fury about a pub


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 9, 2018)

alcopop said:


> The spittle flecked fury about a pub



I hadn't noticed. Can you point it out for me?


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I hadn't noticed. Can you point it out for me?


Good question.

Meanwhile, here's our new Brixton bar owners Brewdog in action again: BrewDog accused of hypocrisy after forcing pub to change name



> BrewDog, the craft beer company that prides itself on a “punk” ethos, has been accused of acting like “just another multinational corporate machine” after forcing a family-run pub to change its name or face legal action.
> The fast-growing Scottish brewer, which has burnished its underdog credentials with vocal criticism of how major brewers operate, recently launched a vodka brand called Lone Wolf. But it threatened legal action against a pub in Birmingham that opened under the same name, prompting allegations of bullying and hypocrisy from within the pubs and brewing community.




And...

This 'Transphobic' BrewDog Beer Advert Sparks Petition Calling For Removal



> In reaction to the campaign, which was launched on the 1st of September, the petition stated: "BrewDog beer company claims to be "beer for punks". They claim to be ethical. Yet in their new crowdsourcing video they mock homeless people, trans women and sex workers.
> 
> "They say, "don't make us do this" whilst performing as offensive caricatures of people, many of whom already suffer discrimination every day.
> 
> "They are mocking the lives and experiences of people who real punks would be defending and helping."



Yes. This $1 billion valued company are just so fucking 'punk'


----------



## CH1 (Sep 9, 2018)

editor said:


> Yes, tiny 330ml ones that work out at nearly £7 for a pint. How about the vast majority of their other beers - aAre those prices  'reasonable' to you?  Please tell me.
> 
> Those kind of prices may be be fine for the West End but this is in one of the most deprived wards in London where there is real poverty. This is just another example of divisive gentrification.


What offends me is that a tin of beer can be considered a delicacy. Or rather marketed as one. Even Wetherspoons have caved in to that one.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 9, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> Ok what's the deal with pay point in Brixton?  We can't seem to find anywhere now to top up the key  	  Any one know of anywhere hiding out of view?



I used to use the newsagent in Atlsntic road ( Railton road end).

The Coop shop in Brixton road ( a bit up from Brixton Jamm so not central Brixton) always has pay point that works.

Paypoint was supposed to make topping up or paying bills easier.

The company that run it pay the newsagents very badly. So many give up on it.

All Coop shops do paypoint.


----------



## T & P (Sep 10, 2018)

CH1 said:


> What offends me is that a tin of beer can be considered a delicacy. Or rather marketed as one. Even Wetherspoons have caved in to that one.


 Fuller, which few would consider a luxury brand, now sells single bottles of beer for more than £400. That’s the retail price as well- fuck knows how much would a bar or hotel charge.

Vintage Ale

I’m not offended myself by it, even if I think it’s completely preposterous. But if some people want to spend that much money on a bottle of beer, well each to their own. Fair dos to Fuller. In fact for separating fools from their money.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> This is what gentrification does: it provides more and more expensive places for well heeled incomers and excludes those who can't afford them - and in time, such places start to dominate the area, leaving more and more people disenfranchised, excluded and/or eventually priced out.



I agree. To add to that I'd say this process normalises inequality. So complaining ends up appearing to be opposing the inevitable.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

I don't think I saw this when it came out:


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

Last night I had the misfortune to bump into the son of a famous 'actor, comedian, author, poet, television presenter and DJ' who was an unbelievable arse with a Matterhorn-sized ego and a very 'erratic/jittery' manner. He came on stage at a jam session and was so self centred and annoying that he managed to clear most of the musicians off stage. I've never seen a single person disrupt a laid back jam so comprehensively. He started lecturing the musicians that they weren't playing well enough while his 'look-at-me' drumming was all over the place. Shame really because he was clearly a very talented guy.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Last night I had the misfortune to bump into the son of a famous "actor, comedian, author, poet, television presenter and DJ" who was an unbelievable arse with a Matterhorn-sized ego and a very 'erratic/jittery' manner. He came on stage at a jam session and was so self centred and annoying that he managed to clear most of the musicians off stage. I've never seen a single person disrupt a laid back jam so comprehensively. He started lecturing the musicians that they weren't playing well enough while his 'look-at-me' drumming was all over the place. Shame really because he was clearly a very talented guy.



Son of a rapist?


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## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Son of a rapist?


I will say no more. But WHAT an arse he was.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> I will say no more. But WHAT an arse he was.



yep, son of a rapist.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

Photos from last night's delightful folk bash at the Windmill Brixton: 






















Sunday night in Brixton: No Frills candlelit folk session at the Brixton Windmill


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## mjd (Sep 10, 2018)

I find the perpetual outrage at the gentrification of Brixton tiring.

To be clear, I am not defending companies and other organisations that I accept are clearly in the wrong, such as - for example - Lambeth council with it failure to consult residents, the management of the Ritzy, Brewdog and its advertising campaigns and mistreatment of a worker, or anything else along those lines. Their conduct is wrong, attention should be drawn to that conduct and action should be taken. I also accept that these issues are often linked to gentrification that is rapid or ill-considered, but that does not mean that there should be relentless objection to gentrification in its own right.

Towns and cities evolve throughout history. The fact that the outrage at gentrification emanates predominantly from those who often focus on Brixton's history and how wonderful Brixton apparently used to be is even more tiring. History repeats itself (to paraphrase Miss Bassey) and there is rarely focus on the darker sides of these supposedly halcyon days, so let's look at Brixton's history in a little more detail:

The etymology of Brixton: Thought to have derived from Brixistane, meaning the stone of Brixi, a Saxon lord. How dare that privileged, titled man impose his name on a place that is to be home to tens of thousands of people in the future? Why wasn't there a vote on what the name was going to be? (Yes, I am aware that even early forms of voting did not arrive until 200 years after the end of the Saxons.)
The deforestation of Brixton: Originally woodland, this had gradually depleted until by the end of the 18th Century the district was covered by farmland and market garden, well known for its game and strawberries. But what about people who used that woodland to relax, to play with their children? Why was game being hunted there when it was predominantly a food for the gentry? Were the juicy strawberries grown in Brixton available for everyone to eat or only those rich enough to be able to afford such a luxury?
The city folk: In the 19th Century South London began to be accessible to city dwellers wishing to escape the dirt and noise of London; terraced houses and detached villas began to line the main road. Outrageous. City folk moving into their large houses, looking down on the previous inhabitants of Brixton tilling the fields and bringing with them their fancy ways.
The windmill arrives: What is this, the Netherlands? Nobody asked Mr Ashby to build this thing. I suppose it'll be a "destination" for those new city folk. Ah, no, even worse, it is supplying wholemeal flour to West End hotels and restaurants. Not even flour for the residents of Brixton. So once it's converted to use a gas engine we put up with the pollution and don't even get the benefits.
The railway brought a building boom when, in the 1870s the landscape changed with developers building two or three storey terraces aimed at the artisan market. The artisan market? What even is that? Some sort of new-fangled marketing jargon. We don't need more gentrifiers attracted to Brixton; they will just demand more high-end shops selling things that nobody can afford and it'll be far too noisy.
The shopping revolution: Sure enough, those high-end shops are coming as Bon Marche arrives and pushes out all those independent retailers with its 48 departments. Why a foreign name? So pretentious. Oh, it means cheap. Well it jolly well better be after I've paid for the French lessons. Hopefully it will fail and be pushed out.
Change is afoot again as, thank goodness, those horrible, large, expensive houses are being subdivided to accommodate the influx of the working classes. They will restore Brixton's glorious former days of, well, I'm not quite sure what.
As predicted, Bon Marche is failing. But no, saved by private equity backing. I can't believe that those objectionable city capitalists are exploiting the good people of Brixton, saving an icon and turning it into a thriving retail business encouraging more and more people to settle here, more businesses to open and turning the centre of Brixton into a noisy, crowded, thriving shopping area.
After the war and the destruction wreaked by the Blitz, Brixton is rebuilt. But where is the rebuilding of that which already was? The mix of the middle classes from the late 1800s and the working classes from the start of the 20th Century? The large, expensive houses alongside the boarding houses? The shops and pubs accommodating all of them, catering to different tastes and budgets and ages? I suppose that will have to wait until the 21st Century.
Some of that is a little on the flippant side but the underlying point stands. Places change, old stands alongside new, large alongside small and wealth alongside poverty, and we need to learn to accept that without fighting it just for the sake of it. There will never be at any one point in time an even balance between the sides, so we have to content ourselves with a swing back and forth between one and the other. That swing can take decades each way and inevitably there will be those who are not content at that one point in time, but gentrification is not a new phenomenon and it is responsible for a lot of elements of the past that are now so celebrated by almost everyone.


----------



## Winot (Sep 10, 2018)




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## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> The fact that the outrage at gentrification emanates predominantly from those who often focus on Brixton's history and how wonderful Brixton apparently used to be is even more tiring.


Does it really? And who is doing that then?

How does being opposed to a multi-multi-million, multinational chain which prices out many locals equate to having some sort of fixation with the glorious past?

In actual fact, the 'outrage at gentrification' generally emanates from _those being affected by it_. You know, the people being evicted or priced out. I doubt if they have much time for mulling over Brixton's past when they're trying to feed their families and survive. But thanks for the history lesson anyway.


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## Ms T (Sep 10, 2018)

I’ve just been to San Francisco, which makes Brixton look like a utopia of equality and harmony. I’ve never seen so many homeless and derelict people in one city - a city which is being ruined by the tech industry and the enormous wealth it has brought imho.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> old stands alongside new



As if...if only

Take off the rose tinted....


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## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

Ms T said:


> I’ve just been to San Francisco, which makes Brixton look like a utopia of equality and harmony. I’ve never seen so many homeless and derelict people in one city - a city which is being ruined by the tech industry and the enormous wealth it has brought imho.


There's always somewhere worse off, but there's plenty of inequality closer to home and the poverty gap grows wider with each new luxury block and upmarket restaurant. 

Coldharbour ward remains one of the most deprived wards in the whole country, with "exceptionally high levels of need."


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> gentrification is not a new phenomenon and it is responsible for a lot of elements of the past that are now so celebrated by almost everyone.



Do tell?


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## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> As if...if only
> 
> Take off the rose tinted....


Yep. It's total bollocks as the paucity of people supporting local issues proves beyond doubt.


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## Winot (Sep 10, 2018)

Ms T said:


> I’ve just been to San Francisco, which makes Brixton look like a utopia of equality and harmony. I’ve never seen so many homeless and derelict people in one city - a city which is being ruined by the tech industry and the enormous wealth it has brought imho.



It's dreadful isn't it? Although apparently it's the only place for miles around that has any kind of funding to help the homeless and so other places basically kick their homeless populations into SF.


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## klang (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> I find the perpetual outrage at the gentrification of Brixton tiring.


i find the gentrification of London and the constant struggle to live with dignity tiring.


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## DietCokeGirl (Sep 10, 2018)

Ugh, Brew dog are fucking awful. Myogonistic, transphobic wankers all done in the faux spirit of being punk and rebellious, to further their brand. It's beer for fucking estate agents.Hopefully someone will poster their windows with news articles about the guy they wrongfully dismissed.


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## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Ugh, Brew dog are fucking awful. Myogonistic, transphobic wankers all done in the faux spirit of being punk and rebellious, to further their brand. It's beer for fucking estate agents.Hopefully someone will poster their windows with news articles about the guy they wrongfully dismissed.


Yet some people here are - unbelievably - quick to defend them or make excuses for them. Oh look, they've built a staff gym with some loose change out of their  millions and millions. Whoopeefuckingdoo.

And apart from all the other shitty things they do, they promote private health care.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> I find the perpetual outrage at the gentrification of Brixton tiring.
> 
> To be clear, I am not defending companies and other organisations that I accept are clearly in the wrong, such as - for example - Lambeth council with it failure to consult residents, the management of the Ritzy, Brewdog and its advertising campaigns and mistreatment of a worker, or anything else along those lines. Their conduct is wrong, attention should be drawn to that conduct and action should be taken. I also accept that these issues are often linked to gentrification that is rapid or ill-considered, but that does not mean that there should be relentless objection to gentrification in its own right.
> 
> ...


i don't think you understand what gentrification is.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> I find the perpetual outrage at the gentrification of Brixton tiring.
> 
> To be clear, I am not defending companies and other organisations that I accept are clearly in the wrong, such as - for example - Lambeth council with it failure to consult residents, the management of the Ritzy, Brewdog and its advertising campaigns and mistreatment of a worker, or anything else along those lines. Their conduct is wrong, attention should be drawn to that conduct and action should be taken. I also accept that these issues are often linked to gentrification that is rapid or ill-considered, but that does not mean that there should be relentless objection to gentrification in its own right.
> 
> ...



you've got the situation now where barnsbury's described as super-gentrified. where the children of gentrifiers are forced out of london as they cannot afford to live within it. gentrification's not simple change over time, it is a process which thus far has not been reversed since glass's coining of the term more than 50 years ago. when you get councils jumping on the bandwagon and destroying housing estates like the heygate, like the haggerston, and replacing them with yuppie flats, when you get the state effectively jumping in to accelerate the process of shipping one class out and another class in, it's of a different order to what has happened in london before.


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## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

Some pics from last night: 
















And....






Sunday night in Brixton: Ese’s Sunday night jam in the Hand & Hand, Brixton


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## Gramsci (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> I find the perpetual outrage at the gentrification of Brixton tiring.
> 
> To be clear, I am not defending companies and other organisations that I accept are clearly in the wrong, such as - for example - Lambeth council with it failure to consult residents, the management of the Ritzy, Brewdog and its advertising campaigns and mistreatment of a worker, or anything else along those lines. Their conduct is wrong, attention should be drawn to that conduct and action should be taken. I also accept that these issues are often linked to gentrification that is rapid or ill-considered, but that does not mean that there should be relentless objection to gentrification in its own right.
> 
> ...



This is the Tory view of history I was taught at school.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think you understand what gentrification is.



Innit


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## alcopop (Sep 10, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> yep, son of a rapist.


Bowie’s kid?


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 10, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Bowie’s kid?



nice try.


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## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> nice try.


All a bit pathetic, really, isn't it? Imagine being _that_ desperate for a reaction here.


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## Gramsci (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> I find the perpetual outrage at the gentrification of Brixton tiring.
> 
> To be clear, I am not defending companies and other organisations that I accept are clearly in the wrong, such as - for example - Lambeth council with it failure to consult residents, the management of the Ritzy, Brewdog and its advertising campaigns and mistreatment of a worker, or anything else along those lines. Their conduct is wrong, attention should be drawn to that conduct and action should be taken. I also accept that these issues are often linked to gentrification that is rapid or ill-considered, but that does not mean that there should be relentless objection to gentrification in its own right.
> 
> ...



When I said your view of history is a Tory one I wasn't being insulting. This is what it is.

"history repeats itself" . We need to accept that wealth and poverty are eternal things in human life. The swing back and forth.

Its exactly what I was taught in 1970s Plymouth at school.

Its pre Thatcher Tory views.

I was taught that politics/ history was a pendulum that swung between left and right. That history was the turning of the wheel. Things came back to where they started. Change and continuity.

I was taught in this country unlike Europe we didn't have revolutions. They were nasty continental thing. Revolutions were the turning of the wheel. Ending up worse than the start.

So the " natural party of government" was the Tory party. The Labour party was alien to British way of life. Socialist ideas were foreign. The Tory party were the One Nation party that could steer the country through social changes.

And you are spouting this stuff in 2018? It is implicit in your post.

Its not me being nostalgic.

Did Thatcher neo liberal restructuring of UK pass you by? To add. I grew up in pre Thatcher Britain. So Thatcher revolution was after I left school. Thatcher broke the pendulum and reordered society. Which appears to be something you ignore or don't see as part of British history.


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## Gramsci (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> I find the perpetual outrage at the gentrification of Brixton tiring.
> 
> To be clear, I am not defending companies and other organisations that I accept are clearly in the wrong, such as - for example - Lambeth council with it failure to consult residents, the management of the Ritzy, Brewdog and its advertising campaigns and mistreatment of a worker, or anything else along those lines. Their conduct is wrong, attention should be drawn to that conduct and action should be taken. I also accept that these issues are often linked to gentrification that is rapid or ill-considered, but that does not mean that there should be relentless objection to gentrification in its own right.
> 
> ...



I find this section of your post problematic:



> After the war and the destruction wreaked by the Blitz, Brixton is rebuilt. But where is the rebuilding of that which already was? The mix of the middle classes from the late 1800s and the working classes from the start of the 20th Century? The large, expensive houses alongside the boarding houses? The shops and pubs accommodating all of them, catering to different tastes and budgets and ages? I suppose that will have to wait until the 21st Century.



The postwar history of Brixton is its most significant for the present day and you dismiss it in one short paragraph. This is when the Windrush generation came to Brixton,  when Council estates were being built. When Brixton Rec was built. Now listed by English Heritage after campaign supported by locals. Listed partly as example of post war socialist architecture.

Yet you ignore this crucial period in Brixton history. Totally ignoring contribution of Afro Carribbean contribution to Brixton. Btw Granville Arcade/ now Brixton Village was bustling market thanks to Afro Carribbean working class immigrants.

Why do you ignore it?


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## Gramsci (Sep 10, 2018)

mjd said:


> I find the perpetual outrage at the gentrification of Brixton tiring.
> 
> Towns and cities evolve throughout history. The fact that the outrage at gentrification emanates predominantly from those who often focus on Brixton's history and how wonderful Brixton apparently used to be is even more tiring. History repeats itself (to paraphrase Miss Bassey) and there is rarely focus on the darker sides of these supposedly halcyon days, so let's look at Brixton's history in a little more detail:
> 
> Some of that is a little on the flippant side but the underlying point stands. Places change, old stands alongside new, large alongside small and wealth alongside poverty, and we need to learn to accept that without fighting it just for the sake of it. There will never be at any one point in time an even balance between the sides, so we have to content ourselves with a swing back and forth between one and the other. That swing can take decades each way and inevitably there will be those who are not content at that one point in time, but gentrification is not a new phenomenon and it is responsible for a lot of elements of the past that are now so celebrated by almost everyone.




I tell you what. Marx was totally opposed to nostalgia. He embraced the dramatic changes Capitalism brought to society. Sweeping away feudalism, advances like railways. What he said was that these changes should lead to society where the social wealth built up should be used to get rid of inequality and liberate  people. He was against those who were just critical of progress

You are criticising those who you see as nostalgic. But the vision you post up instead of this nostalgic one is deeply reactionary. You see no end to inequality. Just a perpetual swing back and forth.


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## northeast (Sep 11, 2018)

Looks like network rail finally offloaded all the arches Network Rail sells railway arches for £1.5bn


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## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I tell you what. Marx was totally opposed to nostalgia. He embraced the dramatic changes Capitalism brought to society. Sweeping away feudalism, advances like railways. What he said was that these changes should lead to society where the social wealth built up should be used to get rid of inequality and liberate  people. He was against those who were just critical of progress
> 
> You are criticising those who you see as nostalgic. But the vision you post up instead of this nostalgic one is deeply reactionary. You see no end to inequality. Just a perpetual swing back and forth.


If he was alive today I think marx would point out that a lot of nostalgia is deliberately fostered by capitalism to sell things anew to a younger generation


----------



## MissL (Sep 11, 2018)

editor said:


> Last night I had the misfortune to bump into the son of a famous 'actor, comedian, author, poet, television presenter and DJ' who was an unbelievable arse with a Matterhorn-sized ego and a very 'erratic/jittery' manner. He came on stage at a jam session and was so self centred and annoying that he managed to clear most of the musicians off stage. I've never seen a single person disrupt a laid back jam so comprehensively. He started lecturing the musicians that they weren't playing well enough while his 'look-at-me' drumming was all over the place. Shame really because he was clearly a very talented guy.



Well there aren’t many people who fall into all those categories


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## blameless77 (Sep 11, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Packaged drinks are always more expensive than draft by volume.
> 
> A menu has some expensive items and some less expensive items - that’s what a menu is - a set of choices.
> 
> ...




What local residents find offensive is that affordable places are being replaced by unaffordable places. It's really not that complicated. At what ratio of affordable to unaffordable will you admit that residents are being priced out?


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## klang (Sep 11, 2018)

it's not even that Brixton is unprecedented. It's been going on all over London for decades, and it's not difficult to see the trend. It's shocking to see what's been happening in Brixton in such a short time, and people are rightly worried about their communities and lives. Anybody denying social cleansing is part of it imo.
Companies like Brew Dog etc moving into poor areas are a sign of what will happen to such area in the near future.
If in doubt look at Shoreditch, Hackney, etc etc.


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## editor (Sep 11, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> What local residents find offensive is that affordable places are being replaced by unaffordable places. It's really not that complicated.


Yet here he is making pathetic excuses about "_packaged drinks are always more expensive_" when you can buy shitloads of decent bottled lagers in other places at prices _nowhere near_ the sky-high stuff on Brewdog's menu, which is stuffed full of wildly expensive and thoroughly unaffordable drinks.

*waits for the "occasional treat" argument.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Sep 11, 2018)

i find it funny that a pint of that Brewdog Punk IPA stuff in their actual bars are over a fiver, yet only £3.49 in some Wetherspoons, such as the Brixton one. Shows what mugs people who actually go to Brewdog bars are, although i suspect they arent short of a few quid so dont give a fuck.


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## klang (Sep 11, 2018)

ftr, I work in Hackney and live in Tots. I found my studio space in Hackney a few year ago, and the reason I can still (just about) make a living is because I pay little rent and have a sympathetic landlord who hasn't sold up yet. I'm dead worried about my livelihood when I see the daily changes going on around me, yet I am part of a community and I am valued for what I do. If the trend continues like it does atm it won't be long before the last remaining local businesses are priced out of Hackney and it will be a cultural wasteland. (And no, I don't buy the argument that hip breweries, expensive eateries and yuppie night clubs contribute to a thriving culture in any way).
WRT Tots: Yuppies are slowly moving in, fuck knows where I'll end up when I'm priced out.

I'm worried, not just for myself, but for communities.


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## editor (Sep 11, 2018)

littleseb said:


> ftr, I work in Hackney and live in Tots. I found my studio space in Hackney a few year ago, and the reason I can still (just about) make a living is because I pay little rent and have a sympathetic landlord who hasn't sold up yet. I'm dead worried about my livelihood when I see the daily changes going on around me, yet I am part of a community and I am valued for what I do. If the trend continues like it does atm it won't be long before the last remaining local businesses are priced out of Hackney and it will be a cultural wasteland. (And no, I don't buy the argument that hip breweries, expensive eateries and yuppie night clubs contribute to a thriving culture in any way).
> WRT Tots: Yuppies are slowly moving in, fuck knows where I'll end up when I'm priced out.
> 
> I'm worried, not just for myself, but for communities.


I've already seen the damage done to Brixton and mega-corps like Brewdog will just compound and accelerate the trend and increase the division between the haves and the have nots. It's depressing as fuck (unless you're a Thatcherite houseowner in which case it's double G&Ts all round).


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## klang (Sep 11, 2018)

Last week or so there was a big commotion around the Sh Bush Brew Dog with blue lights and emergency services and everything. I saw it from afar and was hoping for an arson attack or similar. But no, turned out to be a traffic accident.
(Hope nobody got injured)


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## klang (Sep 11, 2018)

editor said:


> I've already seen the damage done to Brixton and mega-corps like Brewdog will just compound and accelerate the trend and increase the division between the haves and the have nots. It's depressing as fuck (unless you're a Thatcherite houseowner in which case it's double G&Ts all round).


the sheer speed at which changes in Brixton happened is scary as fuck.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2018)

editor said:


> I've already seen the damage done to Brixton and mega-corps like Brewdog will just compound and accelerate the trend and increase the division between the haves and the have nots. It's depressing as fuck (unless you're a Thatcherite houseowner in which case it's double G&Ts all round).


or a labour cllr with thoughts of backhanders.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2018)

littleseb said:


> the sheer speed at which changes in Brixton happened is scary as fuck.


same in whitechapel, every time i go to whitechapel there's something new and shit


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## klang (Sep 11, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> same in whitechapel, every time i go to whitechapel there's something new and shit


I had to go to Whitechapel regularly for the first half of the year. Yes, I witnessed daily changes. Cross Rail is not gonna help the matter.
(However, with the market and the Bangladeshi community it's still sort of holding on to its character by its teeth. Same in Tottenham really, things are not as bad as they could be, long may it last)


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## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2018)

littleseb said:


> I had to go to Whitechapel regularly for the first half of the year. Yes, I witnessed daily changes. Cross Rail is not gonna help the matter.
> (However, with the market and the Bangladeshi community it's still sort of holding on to its character by its teeth. Same in Tottenham really, things are not as bad as they could be, long may it last)


what happened to dalston 2010-2012 following the opening of the overground will happen to whitechapel. in 2008 whitechapel was a working class area with middle class enclaves. now it's a middle class area with working class enclaves.


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## klang (Sep 11, 2018)

yep.


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## klang (Sep 11, 2018)

saw the first proper yuppie gastro pub opening up in West Green Road a month or so ago. Pioneering wankers.


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## editor (Sep 11, 2018)

Photos from Sunday night at the 414






















Sunday night in Brixton: Live jazz, reggae and soul with the Grass Roots band, Club 414, Brixton


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## editor (Sep 11, 2018)

I think I missed the Pieminster chain moving into Market Row. I don't doubt that they won't be the last chain to move in to the space.


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## cuppa tee (Sep 11, 2018)

editor said:


> the Pieminster


Crap name......or should that be offal


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## editor (Sep 11, 2018)

Pope's Road, Brixton. Killed dead by Mike Ashley and Sports Direct.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2018)

it's all gone to shit since the jacket potato place went

lovely ratatouille they did


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## brixtonblade (Sep 11, 2018)

editor said:


> View attachment 146685
> 
> Pope's Road, Brixton. Killed dead by Mike Ashley and Sports Direct.


Is that today? 

Where is the watch stall?


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## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2018)

brixtonblade said:


> Is that today?
> 
> Where is the watch stall?


the very question the man on the bike's asking


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## Gramsci (Sep 11, 2018)

brixtonblade said:


> Is that today?
> 
> Where is the watch stall?



Stuart is still recovering from accident. So he is there on weekends not all week.


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## brixtonblade (Sep 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Stuart is still recovering from accident. So he is there on weekends not all week.


I thought the stall was permanent... 

Ta for the info, explains why he wasn't there the other day when I went down


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## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

brixtonblade said:


> Is that today?
> 
> Where is the watch stall?


Taken around 7pm.


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## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

Quiz based controversy!


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## OvalhouseDB (Sep 12, 2018)

Was the B Our Guest sign taken down over the weekend?


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## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

OvalhouseDB said:


> Was the B Our Guest sign taken down over the weekend?


Yep in readiness for some awful Instagrammable wannabe 'iconic' new sign. It looks better as it is now.


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## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

Drop me a line if you fancy being on the guest list!


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## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Yep in readiness for some awful Instagrammable wannabe 'iconic' new sign. It looks better as it is now.
> 
> View attachment 146756



You do realise that every time you dump your photos onto this board, presumably because you find the subject of those photos aesthetically pleasing, you are in fact doing nothing different to what people do on Instagram?


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## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> You do realise that every time you dump your photos onto this board, presumably because you find the subject of those photos aesthetically pleasing, you are in fact doing nothing different to what people do on Instagram?


I don't "dump" photos and I'm really not interested in your half-baked analysis. The last photo was posted to illustrate an _ongoing discussion_, you clown.


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## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I don't "dump" photos and I'm really not interested in your half-baked analysis. The last photo was posted to illustrate an _ongoing discussion_, you clown.



So illustrate the interesting and relevant discussion around the removal of the B Our Guest sign without a snide, bitter, irrelevant swipe.


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## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> So illustrate the interesting and relevant discussion around the removal of the B Our Guest sign without a snide, bitter, irrelevant swipe.


Not sure who elected you Content Moderator, but I do believe my post:

(a) illustrated how the bridge looks better now it is painted in a single colour, as compared to the very tatty B Our Guest sign
(b) expressed a personal opinion that I prefer it to the fnaar-worthy and garish forthcoming replacement (illustration 'dumped' below)
(c) accurately commented that it is designed to be 'iconic' and thus shared on social media platforms like Instagram



Now you can tell me what you've contributed to the discussion about the bridge thus far. Oh wait....


----------



## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Not sure who elected you Content Moderator, but I do believe my post:
> 
> (a) illustrated how the bridge looks better now it is painted in a single colour, as compared to the very tatty B Our Guest sign
> (b) expressed a personal opinion that I prefer it to the fnaar-worthy and garish forthcoming replacement (illustration 'dumped' below)
> ...



I wholeheartedly agree with you that the bridge looks better in a single colour, rather than with the very tatty sign.

I also wholeheartedly agree with you that the innuendo-laden forthcoming replacement is somewhat garish.

What I do not agree with, and what I take issue with, is that you seem unable ever to pass judgment on anything not to your taste without some sort of low blow to any sort of activity you don't like. You are entitled to your view (implicit in your comment) that people who take photographs of "destinations" and "icons" and anything else in order to post those photos on Instagram are silly. But how about trying to express your views without veiled sniping at people?

That is my contribution to the discussion about the bridge.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with you that the bridge looks better in a single colour, rather than with the very tatty sign.
> 
> I also wholeheartedly agree with you that the innuendo-laden forthcoming replacement is somewhat garish.
> 
> ...


You can 'take issue' with me as much as you like, but the_ whole fucking point_ of the redesign is to turn the bridge into something iconic and shareable on social media. It's all about 'brand Brixton' and trying to get the message and imagery across on a global scale. And that's not 'passing judgement' - that's accurately reporting what is going on.

Why else do you think they're plastering the bridge in bright colours and - in my opinion - a cringeworthy slogan along with the word 'Brixton'?

Do tell.


----------



## alcopop (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> You do realise that every time you dump your photos onto this board, presumably because you find the subject of those photos aesthetically pleasing, you are in fact doing nothing different to what people do on Instagram?


No, rather depressingly he does not understand this at all .


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> No, rather depressingly he does not understand this at all .


Seeing as you've predictably piped up, please detail how posting up a relevant and topical photo illustrating a point in response to an *ongoing discussion on this thread *is in any way comparable to a hashtagged random photo on the commercial social media service, Instagram. Thanks.


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 12, 2018)

Oh great, another new member to file under "probably a Tory; definitely a dick".

It's no surprise that the gentrification of Brixton is mirrored in the "gentrification" of the forum.

A lot of members would do well to understand the history of the U75 forums and the work of the moderators etc.

It's a good job I'm not in charge as I'd have banned a lot of cunts a long time ago.


----------



## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

3Zeros said:


> Oh great, another new member to file under "probably a Tory; definitely a dick".
> 
> It's no surprise that the gentrification of Brixton is mirrored in the "gentrification" of the forum.
> 
> ...



Banning someone for not sharing your view isn’t really in the spirit of a forum open to different sorts of people to express their views, is it?

If you want the forum to be a place for your own egos to be massaged when everyone agrees with you, fine. But if you don’t then don’t take offence when someone has a different view.


----------



## Dan U (Sep 12, 2018)

This is all well and good but it's clearly bloody autumn


----------



## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> You can 'take issue' with me as much as you like, but the_ whole fucking point_ of the redesign is to turn the bridge into something iconic and shareable on social media. It's all about 'brand Brixton' and trying to get the message and imagery across on a global scale. And that's not 'passing judgement' - that's accurately reporting what is going on.
> 
> Why else do you think they're plastering the bridge in bright colours and - in my opinion - a cringeworthy slogan along with the word 'Brixton'?
> 
> Do tell.



Again, I agree with you. But you miss the point.

Creating an icon (the bridge) with the objective of sharing it on social media is no different to a graffiti artist creating a work that is photographed (by e.g. you) and posted on this forum, or an architect in the 1800s creating a building that stands out and you taking a photo of that in the name of documenting history and posting that on this forum too.

It is that hypocrisy that I take issue with.


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> Banning someone for not sharing your view isn’t really in the spirit of a forum open to different sorts of people to express their views, is it?
> 
> If you want the forum to be a place for your own egos to be massaged when everyone agrees with you, fine. But if you don’t then don’t take offence when someone has a different view.



There are plenty of places you can go to share your pro-gentrification views. Like the Daily Mail comments section.


----------



## donkyboy (Sep 12, 2018)

anyone else notice a lot of these open and then quickly closing down stores popping up in brixton recently? not soon after they have closing down sale painted onto windows? also notice that fast food joint next to former mothercare, recently opened and now seems closed down? I can see the same thing happening to that store that has opened where mothercare was.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 12, 2018)

The old B Our Guest sign was made by the 1oclock clubs across Lambeth - each one created a letter for the final design. I liked the spirit of that and wish something similar had been done again, rather than professional graphic design studios being invited to submit something. More public art by the community, to give the kids pride and ownership of their area, and of their atchivements and abilities, rather than art/design being by a select few. Or maybe I'm over analysing it.


----------



## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

3Zeros said:


> There are plenty of places you can go to share your pro-gentrification views. Like the Daily Mail comments section.



In my view the majority of gammon-faced posters on the Daily Mail hark back to their perceptions of a bygone era. That is not really what gentrification is about.

But it's reassuring to know that you're not open to any sort of debate. Your view or no view. A little immature.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 12, 2018)

3Zeros said:


> A lot of members would do well to understand the history of the U75 forums and the work of the moderators etc.



Most of the moderators got fed up and left, and the ones that are left won't touch the Brixton forum


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> Creating an icon (the bridge) with the objective of sharing it on social media is no different to a graffiti artist creating a work that is photographed (by e.g. you) and posted on this forum, or an architect in the 1800s creating a building that stands out and you taking a photo of that in the name of documenting history and posting that on this forum too.
> 
> It is that hypocrisy that I take issue with.


This is really confused nonsense.


----------



## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> This is really confused nonsense.



Explain which bit you don't understand and I will endeavour to be clearer.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> The old B Our Guest sign was made by the 1oclock clubs across Lambeth - each one created a letter for the final design. I liked the spirit of that and wish something similar had been done again, rather than professional graphic design studios being invited to submit something. More public art by the community, to give the kids pride and ownership of their area, and of their atchivements and abilities, rather than art/design being by a select few. Or maybe I'm over analysing it.


No, I think you hit the nail on the head. This new design has nothing to do with community and everything to do with Lambeth's pro-Blairite, pro-entrepreneurial, nu-Brixton business model to make Brixton an "international destination."

Tourists and well-off incomers come first, community comes a distant second.


----------



## T & P (Sep 12, 2018)

3Zeros said:


> Oh great, another new member to file under "probably a Tory; definitely a dick".
> 
> It's no surprise that the gentrification of Brixton is mirrored in the "gentrification" of the forum.
> 
> ...


The rest of these boards tolerate a spectrum of different views, some of which most of us will find abhorrent. Part and parcel of most message fora where debate is allowed.

If the Brixton forum is meant to be ruled by a different set of values to the rest of the U75 boards- namely a place for like-minded people of a particular ideology where dissenting opinions are not welcome, that’s absolutely fine of course. But it needs to be made clear, because to the best of my knowledge such policy has never been stated. Are different sets of values allowed to be expressed in this particular area of U75 or not?

I don’t think anyone would object if the Brixton forum was treated as a values-driven space for like-minded posters. Much like a Facebook group I guess. Everyone concerned would be happier. But if this forum is to be governed by the same FAQs as the rest of the boards, then it needs to be moderated as the rest of the boards. And calling for different opinioned posters to piss off or be banned is as unjustified as calling for right wing posters in the P&P forum to be banned. Something that nobody there, no matter how intense the arguments and aggressive the exchanges, calls for so long ask the FAQs have not been broken.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> Explain which bit you don't understand and I will endeavour to be clearer.


Much as I object to your half-baked 'hypocrite' insult, I really can't be arsed to waste time trying to make sense of your confused ramblings.
I am getting fed up with your personal attacks though.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> But it's reassuring to know that you're not open to any sort of debate. Your view or no view. A little immature.


Here's a tip: quit the ad hominems now.


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> In my view the majority of gammon-faced posters on the Daily Mail hark back to their perceptions of a bygone era. That is not really what gentrification is about.
> 
> But it's reassuring to know that you're not open to any sort of debate. Your view or no view. A little immature.



When a view completely misunderstands, or wilfully misrepresents, a well documented and researched subject then I'm not interested in hearing it.

When a view completely ignores the plight of the poor and disenfranchised then I'm not interested in hearing it.


----------



## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Here's a tip: quit the ad hominems now.



Says the man who just accused me of confused ramblings!!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> Says the man who just accused me of confused ramblings!!


Please read the opening summary in the FAQ of these boards.


----------



## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Please read the opening summary in the FAQ of these boards.



"Please read the boards for a while before posting". Now I _am_ confused.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> "Please read the boards for a while before posting". Now I _am_ confused.


Here: 


> Even more briefly: Don't act like a dick and we'll all get along fine.


----------



## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Here:



Do we have a definition of acting like a dick? Because it seems to be from recent posts that anyone with a differing view from the old school members of this board is being a dick. And when they try to stand up for their views and explain them coherently there is no interest in engaging.

My perceived attacks on you have been because of your hypocrisy. In the same way that you attack others who do not share your view.


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> Do we have a definition of acting like a dick?



Your post history


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> Do we have a definition of acting like a dick? Because it seems to be from recent posts that anyone with a differing view from the old school members of this board is being a dick. And when they try to stand up for their views and explain them coherently there is no interest in engaging.
> 
> My perceived attacks on you have been because of your hypocrisy. In the same way that you attack others who do not share your view.


Newly arrived poster rocks up into the forum, starts insulting regular posters, dismisses them as immature or repeatedly declares them to be hypocrites based on some really bonkers reasoning as also witnessed in your previous personal attempts to attack me.

You know, that kind of thing.  HTH.

Try sticking to the topic rather than trying to insult everyone who doesn't subscribe to your particular worldview.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> Do we have a definition of acting like a dick? Because it seems to be from recent posts that anyone with a differing view from the old school members of this board is being a dick. And when they try to stand up for their views and explain them coherently there is no interest in engaging.


That is pretty much spot on.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

discobastard said:


> That is pretty much spot on.


Except it's not seeing as this new arrival is the one constantly launching personal attacks at other posters (see his posting history for more examples).  Still, I'm guessing that you're just happy seeing another right wing face on these boards, eh?


----------



## mjd (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Newly arrived poster rocks up into the forum, starts insulting regular posters, dismisses them as immature or repeatedly declares them to be hypocrites based on some really bonkers reasoning as also witnessed in your previous personal attempts to attack me.
> 
> You know, that kind of thing.  HTH.
> 
> Try sticking to the topic rather than trying to insult everyone who doesn't subscribe to your particular worldview.



Every forum has its own unique phrases that new posters have to get used to, but thank you, I think I'm starting to pick up on these now.

"Really bonkers reasoning" = "An argument with which an established poster doesn't agree".

And "insulting everyone who doesn't subscribe to your particular world view" = "acting like a dick" except where (and this subtle distinction has only recently become evident" dismissing someone as "another new member to file under "probably a Tory; definitely a dick"" does not equal "acting like a dick".

Thanks for clearing that up, have a lovely evening.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2018)

mjd said:


> Every forum has its own unique phrases that new posters have to get used to, but thank you, I think I'm starting to pick up on these now.
> 
> "Really bonkers reasoning" = "An argument with which an established poster doesn't agree".
> 
> ...


Except it's been you _starting with the insults_, you div.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Except it's not seeing as this new arrival is the one constantly launching personal attacks at other posters (see his posting history for more examples).  Still, I'm guessing that you're just happy seeing another right wing face on these boards, eh?


Why don’t you quit the ad hominems eh?  FAQ says you’re not supposed to be a dick.


----------



## BusLanes (Sep 13, 2018)

Election Day and small groups of people are out delivering leaflets to a confused public


----------



## alcopop (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Seeing as you've predictably piped up, please detail how posting up a relevant and topical photo illustrating a point in response to an *ongoing discussion on this thread *is in any way comparable to a hashtagged random photo on the commercial social media service, Instagram. Thanks.


People don’t post random photos on Instagram .

They post what they believe to be relevant and topical ones.

A hashtag provides context and allows it to be part of an _*ongoing discussion.
*_


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

oh this is going well


----------



## Dan U (Sep 13, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> oh this is going well



on such a lovely autumnal day as well.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Dan U said:


> on such a lovely autumnal day as well.


very pleasant here at work, huge clusterfucks elsewhere in the service but in my little corner of the library we're very happy  and there's still a couple of weeks before the start of term


----------



## peterkro (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> Banning someone for not sharing your view isn’t really in the spirit of a forum open to different sorts of people to express their views, is it?
> 
> If you want the forum to be a place for your own egos to be massaged when everyone agrees with you, fine. But if you don’t then don’t take offence when someone has a different view.


Nobody has banned you yet although you are clearly ignoring the one guideline not to be a dick by clearly being a dick.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

alcopop said:


> People don’t post random photos on Instagram .
> 
> They post what they believe to be relevant and topical ones.
> 
> A hashtag provides context and allows it to be part of an _*ongoing discussion.*_


Deeply fascinating. Is there a point here?


----------



## alcopop (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Deeply fascinating. Is there a point here?


Was responding to your question


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Was responding to your question


So you think posting pictures on Instagram is exactly the same as joining in with an on going specific  discussion on a bulletin board. Thanks for that truly awesome insight.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

Too much vibrancy it seems:


> Residents flats on Coldharbour Lane that are newly refurbished but lack double glazing recently complained both to the council and to local MP Helen Hayes about noise that they claimed came from Club 414 opposite.
> 
> Noise tests by the council showed that the club was not exceeding official limits, but one of the complaining residents told the Blog that he would be giving up his flat because of disturbed sleep.
> 
> Council launches consultation on new licensing policy


Of course, the real culprit in this is people like the multi millionaire Jerry Knight and Lexadon who keep building flats without sufficient soundproofiing next to existing pubs and venues. I very much doubt that he gives a flying fuck if his profiteering results in the closing down of existing venues, but it's greedy developers who are driving the closure of pubs and clubs.


----------



## sealion (Sep 13, 2018)

Moves into ' vibrant ' Brixton, opposite a nightclub and pub and then complains


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

sealion said:


> Moves into ' vibrant ' Brixton, opposite a nightclub and pub and then complains


Sums up the sheer arrogance of these yuppie/city boy/Daddy financed incomers. They want the town to change to suit their selfish needs. If I was in charge of licensing, every time a nu-Brixton resident rocks into town and complains about the existing levels of noise, the bar would automatically get an hour extension to their late licence.


----------



## sealion (Sep 13, 2018)

Looking at estate agents blurb for Clifton mansions/ Brixton, nightlife and entertainment gets 4 to 5 stars and no doubt that was one of the selling points to these fuckwits.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

Some photos from last night. It's great to see the Queen's Head back but I have to say the 414 is a much better venue for live music. The sound at the QH was abysmal last night and the lighting is horrible too. Hopefully the new owner will sort it out soon. 

It's a shame that the two competing nights have effectively 'split the vote' in Brixton - neither is as good as the original night at the 414. 

















Wednesday night in Brixton: Wicked Wednesday at the Queen’s Head, Late Night Jam at Club 414


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> I very much doubt that he gives a flying fuck if his profiteering results in the closing down of existing venues, but it's greedy developers who are driving the closure of pubs and clubs.



pubs close....developers buy them and turn them into flats, it's a vicious circle
Jed1 Knight don't seem to want this one reopening anytime soon.....


Check out this commercial property on Rightmove!


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Sep 13, 2018)

lets hope the prick complaining about the 414 does indeed give up his flat and fuck off somewhere else that is not opposite a nightclub that has been open for over 30 years.


----------



## mjd (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Sums up the sheer arrogance of these yuppie/city boy/Daddy financed incomers. They want the town to change to suit their selfish needs. If I was in charge of licensing, every time a nu-Brixton resident rocks into town and complains about the existing levels of noise, the bar would automatically get an hour extension to their late licence.



I have a couple of questions. It isn't an attack on you personally, I am not being a dick, I am trying to understand how various competing views can be reconciled.

Assuming that "yuppie/city boy/Daddy financed incomers" are high earners, they will pay more tax. That tax will be used, in part, to fund central government grants disbursed to London boroughs including Lambeth. Is it the case that you are happy for these people to exist, to contribute more tax and for Lambeth (and thus all of us who live in Lambeth) to benefit, but you do not want them living in Brixton, or would you prefer that they did not exist at all?

If you would prefer that they did not exist at all, what are your proposals for bridging the gap in funding, assuming (which is a whole other topic) that Lambeth could not bridge it by being more efficient and saving money on pointless projects (which I think we all agree that they do).


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> lets hope the prick complaining about the 414 does indeed give up his flat and fuck off somewhere else that is not opposite a nightclub that has been open for over 30 years.


He should announce his departure date so locals can come out and wave him off. There's been a coordinated campaign from several newly arrived residents of that block to get the 414 closed down. Fuck them.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> I have a couple of questions. It isn't an attack on you personally, I am not being a dick, I am trying to understand how various competing views can be reconciled.
> 
> Assuming that "yuppie/city boy/Daddy financed incomers" are high earners, they will pay more tax. That tax will be used, in part, to fund central government grants disbursed to London boroughs including Lambeth. Is it the case that you are happy for these people to exist, to contribute more tax and for Lambeth (and thus all of us who live in Lambeth) to benefit, but you do not want them living in Brixton, or would you prefer that they did not exist at all?
> 
> If you would prefer that they did not exist at all, what are your proposals for bridging the gap in funding, assuming (which is a whole other topic) that Lambeth could not bridge it by being more efficient and saving money on pointless projects (which I think we all agree that they do).


Quite happy for them to exist, but not happy for them to move opposite a long established community venue and then try to do everything in their power to get it closed down permanently because it doesn't suit their personal lifestyle. I trust that answers your question in full.

(The desperate stretch of your argument here is duly noted too)


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> pubs close....developers buy them and turn them into flats, it's a vicious circle
> Jed1 Knight don't seem to want this one reopening anytime soon.....
> View attachment 146839
> 
> Check out this commercial property on Rightmove!


Its obscene what developers like The Jed1 can do to community resources. What happened to the Grosvenor and the Canterbury was particularly disgusting.


----------



## mjd (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Quite happy for them to exist, but not happy for them to move opposite a long established community venue and then try to do everything in their power to get it closed down permanently because it doesn't suit their personal lifestyle. I trust that answers your question in full.
> 
> (The desperate stretch of your argument here is duly noted too)



It does answer my question in full, thank you. And I agree with you that if a newcomer moves opposite a long established venue like 414 then that person should have absolutely no right to complain.

But it does lead to another question.

If you are happy for "city boys" to exist then please could you stop assuming that each and every one of them is bad and using the term to imply some sort of evil person?


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> If you are happy for "city boys" to exist then please could you stop assuming that each and every one of them is bad and using the term to imply some sort of evil person?



Yes, haven't they suffered enough?!


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> If you are happy for "city boys" to exist then please could you stop assuming that each and every one of them is bad and using the term to imply some sort of evil person?


Where have I assumed that they are all bad or evil? You are turning into the king of fallacious arguments.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Its obscene what developers like The Jed1 can do to community resources. What happened to the Grosvenor and the Canterbury was particularly disgusting.


The irony with the Normandy is that the owner leaves the bottom semi derelict and applies for planning to build a penthouse on top so his sniffy clients can be as far away from the oi poll oi as possible.....


----------



## mjd (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Where have I assumed that they are all bad or evil? You are turning into the king of fallacious arguments.



Can you be sure that it was "city boys" who moved into those apartments on Coldharbour Lane? If not, then by using that term when you are referring to the sorts of people who move into apartments like that then complain about pre-existing noise then you are automatically assuming it must be city boys who do so and are therefore bad.


----------



## aka (Sep 13, 2018)

3Zeros said:


> Yes, haven't they suffered enough?!


Brilliant.  This is the kind of reasoned debate I come for.  The face palm - yay. (has second thoughts, maybeez peeps on the intenernet will be hirrible -  gives no fukcs). Rolling down the river.....


----------



## klang (Sep 13, 2018)

i reckon mjd is a city boy. but not a bad one.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> Can you be sure that it was "city boys" who moved into those apartments on Coldharbour Lane? If not, then by using that term when you are referring to the sorts of people who move into apartments like that then complain about pre-existing noise then you are automatically assuming it must be city boys who do so and are therefore bad.


More selective quoting, more fallacious arguments. You're becoming really dull now.


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 13, 2018)

aka said:


> Brilliant.  This is the kind of reasoned debate I come for.  The face palm - yay. (has second thoughts, maybeez peeps on the intenernet will be hirrible -  gives no fukcs). Rolling down the river.....


----------



## aka (Sep 13, 2018)

littleseb said:


> i reckon mjd is a city boy. but not a bad one.


I reckon she is a lawyer.  In the magic circle.  Like, ummm... Paul Daniels or Dynamo.


----------



## mjd (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> More selective quoting, more fallacious arguments. You're becoming really dull now.



If my argument is fallacious, please explain why you chose to use the term "city boy" in the following post (which has been quoted in full):

"Sums up the sheer arrogance of these yuppie/city boy/Daddy financed incomers. They want the town to change to suit their selfish needs. If I was in charge of licensing, every time a nu-Brixton resident rocks into town and complains about the existing levels of noise, the bar would automatically get an hour extension to their late licence."


----------



## aka (Sep 13, 2018)

3Zeros said:


>


genuine lol


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> If my argument is fallacious, please explain why you chose to use the term "city boy" in the following post (which has been quoted in full):
> 
> "Sums up the sheer arrogance of these yuppie/city boy/Daddy financed incomers. They want the town to change to suit their selfish needs. If I was in charge of licensing, every time a nu-Brixton resident rocks into town and complains about the existing levels of noise, the bar would automatically get an hour extension to their late licence."


I gave a range of the demographics most likely to be able to afford these expensive flats. Are you denying that city boys are amongst the new demographic moving into Brixton?

Oh and I should have added 'young professional' to my list although that is often interchangeable with 'city boy.'


----------



## mjd (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> I gave a range of the demographics most likely to be able to afford these expensive flats. Are you denying that city boys are amongst the new demographic moving into Brixton?
> 
> Oh and I should have added 'young professional' to my list although that is often interchangeable with 'city boy.'



I'm not denying that at all. I agree with you. But are they all arrogant? Do they all want the "town to change"? Do they all have "selfish needs"? I accept that by the very fact that they are moving in, they will change the town. That may or may not be at the forefront of their mind when they choose to move into those flats. But some city boys might actually like to preserve as much of the existing Brixton as possible.

Related to that last point of mine, not every city boy moves to Brixton because they see it as edgy and cool and vibrant. The gentrification that is pushing long-standing Brixton residents out of Brixton has also pushed the "average" city boy out of the parts of London in which they might historically be more likely to live. And faced with a want/need (and I accept that a need is relative and highly subjective) to live close to the centre of the city, there is a diminishing number of areas to move into.

I am not sure that I agree that young professional is often interchangeable. There are plenty of professions that do not pay enough to afford a flat in Brixton, but are professions nonetheless.


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 13, 2018)

You're just trolling now


----------



## aka (Sep 13, 2018)

At this point, I really don't know who is trolling who.  RIP Aretha


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> I'm not denying that at all. I agree with you. But are they all arrogant?


The ONES COMPLAINING ABOUT THE NOISE OF AN EXISTING VENUE ARE. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Are you being wilfully obtuse? I have quite clearly been specifically referring to the ones who tried to get the 414 closed down after they moved opposite.

Trying to deprive the owners of their livelihood and take away a much loved community venue because they've belatedly decided that they don't like the area they've just moved into is about as selfish as you can get.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

3Zeros said:


> You're just trolling now


Yep and it's got boring now.


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 13, 2018)

But gentrification has forced them to move to Brixton! They can't be blamed for wanting to make it more like the places they were meant to live!


----------



## teuchter (Sep 13, 2018)

To save everyone time, each time the noise issue comes up, simply refer to this handy diagram. Then we don't have to go through it over and over again.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

For anyone interested in actual Brixton/Lambeth news rather than unfunny trolling:

Lambeth Open 2018: local artists open their doors to the public, 6th and 7th Oct 2018


----------



## aka (Sep 13, 2018)

that makes zero sense, i mean absolute zero.  Nothing, nada, zip  'sense.  If you;re a venn diagram - where's the fucking sweet spot


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2018)

3Zeros said:


> Oh great, another new member to file under "probably a Tory; definitely a dick".
> 
> It's no surprise that the gentrification of Brixton is mirrored in the "gentrification" of the forum.
> 
> ...



This forum is where I started on Urban years ago. I agree the gentrification of Brixton is mirrored in whats happened to Brixton forum.

I do remember when I was one of the more "mainstream" posters here back when I started.

Posters like Ernestolynch and Annakey are long gone. I know other posters who have been pushed out of Brixton. So no longer post here.

Im often finding it rather depressing now.


----------



## RoyReed (Sep 13, 2018)

aka said:


> that makes zero sense, i mean absolute zero.  Nothing, nada, zip  'sense.  If you;re a venn diagram - where's the fucking sweet spot


There is no fucking sweet spot.

Jesus, I'd forgotted why I hardly ever post in the Brixton forum, other than the History thread. Reading back through the last couple of pages here has reminded me.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

RoyReed said:


> There is no fucking sweet spot.
> 
> Jesus, I'd forgotted why I hardly ever post in the Brixton forum, other than the History thread. Reading back through the last couple of pages here has reminded me.


Please do try. We need some balance from the depressing deluge of anti-union, anti-workers, anti-poor, pro-free enterprise and pro-Blairite posts.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

*Brixton Street Photography: The Gentrification Tour*
by Honey Salvadori

Brixton Street Photography: The Gentrification Tour

£63.47!!!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> *Brixton Street Photography: The Gentrification Tour*
> by Honey Salvadori
> 
> Brixton Street Photography: The Gentrification Tour
> ...


Do they do any concessions?


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Do they do any concessions?


Nope.


----------



## Angellic (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> *Brixton Street Photography: The Gentrification Tour*
> by Honey Salvadori
> 
> Brixton Street Photography: The Gentrification Tour
> ...



The Gentrifiers Tour, surely.


----------



## aka (Sep 13, 2018)

RoyReed said:


> There is no fucking sweet spot.
> 
> Jesus, I'd forgotted why I hardly ever post in the Brixton forum, other than the History thread. Reading back through the last couple of pages here has reminded me.


whoosh.  I give up with this forum - no room for nuance, irony or funnies (good, bad or indifferent).


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

aka said:


> whoosh.  I give up with this forum - no room for nuance, irony or funnies (good, bad or indifferent).


Plenty of room for good jokes, but all the pro-Blairite/corporate-apologist/anti-workers stuff just gets really tiresome.

I never thought I'd see this forum shift so hideously to the right, but it definitely reflects the growing 'I'm all right Jack' nu-Brixton demographic.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Plenty of room for good jokes, but all the pro-Blairite/corporate-apologist/anti-workers stuff just gets really tiresome.
> 
> I never thought I'd see this forum shift so hideously to the right, but it definitely reflects the growing 'I'm all right Jack' nu-Brixton demographic.


There’s a huge difference between ‘anti’ and neutral, or even ‘anti’ and being able to manipulate different meanings, inferring intent and evaluating different point of view.  

And I suspect you know that.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

discobastard said:


> There’s a huge difference between ‘anti’ and neutral, or even ‘anti’ and being able to manipulate different meanings, inferring intent and evaluating different point of view.
> 
> And I suspect you know that.


I'm fully aware of that distinction and my I stand by my comments. When people say that they would happily join the people laughing and drinking in the Ritzy when there's a protest happening right next to them, or when people try to push the blame on to the workers, then that's very much in 'I'm all right Jack' nu-Brixton demographic.

And how the fuck can you be 'neutral' to workers fighting a corporation for a decent wage?


----------



## alex_ (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm fully aware of that distinction and my I stand by my comments. When people say that they would happily join the people laughing and drinking in the Ritzy when there's a protest happening right next to them, or when people try to push the blame on to the workers, then that's very much in 'I'm all right Jack' nu-Brixton demographic.
> 
> And how the fuck can you be 'neutral' to workers fighting a corporation for a decent wage?



Has any regular poster said this ?

Alex


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Nope.


That's a gap in the market


----------



## teuchter (Sep 13, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> This forum is where I started on Urban years ago. I agree the gentrification of Brixton is mirrored in whats happened to Brixton forum.
> 
> I do remember when I was one of the more "mainstream" posters here back when I started.
> 
> ...



Um - were they not both banned by the moderators, rather than being driven away by tory gentrifiers and hipster toffs?

There are some narratives - which I risk a ban for even suggesting - to explain the drifting away of many people from the Brixton boards that are rather different from the one you present.

But people can probably make their own judgement reading the past few pages.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm fully aware of that distinction and my I stand by my comments. When people say that they would happily join the people laughing and drinking in the Ritzy when there's a protest happening right next to them, or when people try to push the blame on to the workers, then that's very much in 'I'm all right Jack' nu-Brixton demographic.
> 
> And how the fuck can you be 'neutral' to workers fighting a corporation for a decent wage?



Not one single person on this thread has ever said they would _‘happily join the people laughing and drinking in the Ritzy when there’s a protest happening right next to them’_.  If you actually believe that then one has to call your general judgement into question.  But let’s not go into that.

Nobody is ‘pushing the blame on to the workers’ – I suspect aka was using the well known rhetorical device of 'exaggerating for comic effect' – and presumably for a reason.  I suspect you know that.

Here’s a scenario.  For the benefit of the tape, it is not my scenario and it is not my position.  But it is possibly realistic and based on a number of things I have heard from people here, people who aren’t on the boards whom I’ve told about the situation when they have mentioned the Ritzy, and also from somebody who is currently an employee of Picturehouse, and has said they are very happy in their job.

A busy person, possibly with a family, a demanding full time job maybe, might hear about the strike.  They might even take the trouble to look up what the strike is all about.  They might even read the Picturehouse side of the story and decide that with the living wage at £10.20, Picturehouse staff receiving between £9.40 and £9.99 an hour* with a number of other associated benefits including discounted food, free drinks and popcorn, free cinema tickets and late night working allowance, that actually, while it would be great if they got the living wage, it isn’t something that I am prepared to get up and fight because I have other concerns.  They might think that they get paid better than lots of other businesses in the area with better benefits (even just any benefits), they might think that it’s zero hours and Amazon style workers that really need people to stand up for them.  They might do a sponsored bike ride for people with debilitating illnesses, work in a soup kitchen or do some other form of community work.  At the end of the week, when somebody suggests going to see a movie or tells everybody to meet at the Ritzy, they might think ‘yeah’, that’s just what I need’.  This of course doesn't even take into account those who don't know about the strike/dispute.  Somebody I know who is very kind and does a lot of work for community groups in Crystal Palace suggested we go to see a film at the Ritzy.  I told her about it, but she felt that while she sympathised, boycotting it was not something she was prepared to do (we didn't go in the end btw).

They might equally say ‘let’s go and have a few lagers at the Ritzy and laugh at the workers’ (and yes, fuck those people).  It seems that this is the default position for anybody who is not boycotting or even going down there to support them – or am I wrong?  If so, please clarify.

It’s the unwillingness to even consider that there are so many other mediating factors why somebody doesn’t actively support the strike which does your argument harm.  Because somebody is in the former category doesn’t make them ‘right wing anti-worker’.  And if you continue to apparently demonise people that might be in this category, because you cannot always (possibly never) infer somebody’s beliefs from their actions, then you are distracting yourself (and others) from the real issues and from fighting real right wing idiocy.  Verging on crying wolf.  And please do not infer from that that I am equating the dispute with an imaginary animal, you are bright enough to work out what I mean.

And a disclaimer (again, because these tend to get ignored), before everybody piles on and tells me that _these scenarios must be what I think because I typed them out_, these are not all of the things that I think at all (I’ve already told you my position).  But I have some thinking tools (that are freely available to all) to consider them.  And as a thought experiment I am asking you to consider them rather than the apparent zero sum game of assuming everybody who doesn’t think what you think is a right wing troll.

And if the posh looking blokes in your photo that keeps getting posted up were indeed laughing at the workers, then they are indeed cunts.  But one of them might have gone home and told their partner about it and they may have decided not to go to the Ritzy again.  You don’t know.

*ETA: yes I am aware of this from the Picturehouse website but cannot comment on detail - it does not change the general thrust of the argument - _'Staff at The Ritzy Picturehouse London are represented by BECTU and agreed a rate of £9.10 per hour (equivalent to £9.70 with a paid break) from 2 September 2016'_


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Not one single person on this thread has ever said they would _‘happily join the people laughing and drinking in the Ritzy when there’s a protest happening right next to them’_.  If you actually believe that then one has to call your general judgement into question.  But let’s not go into that.
> 
> Nobody is ‘pushing the blame on to the workers’ – I suspect aka was using the well known rhetorical device of 'exaggerating for comic effect' – and presumably for a reason.  I suspect you know that.
> 
> ...



Moving this post to the Picturehouse thread because while it is a direct response to a comment on this thread it is more relevant there.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

So we're back to the suggestion that it's OK to ignore the boycott or not support the protest because some people may not be getting as much money somewhere else.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> So we're back to the suggestion that it's OK to ignore the boycott or not support the protest because some people may not be getting as much money somewhere else.



You can do better than that.  Better than just firing a one liner that misses the point and ignores 99% of the post.  And you know that.

For clarity: NO, I AM NOT ARGUING THAT.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

discobastard said:


> You can do better than that.  Better than just firing a one liner that misses the point and ignores 99% of the post.  And you know that.
> 
> For clarity: NO, I AM NOT ARGUING THAT.


So have you had a go at the posters here who said that they've ignored the Ritzy boycott? No? Why not?


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> So have you had a go at the posters here who said that they've ignored the Ritzy boycott? No? Why not?


I think it's fairly clear the discussion I am trying to have.  I am not here to have a go at people - I have put forward scenarios that might incline people to ignore it.  That is what is up for discussion, not attacking individual posters.  I am trying to play the ball here.

An important thing to remember - it is not just about posters here is it?  And I'm referring to the wider population.  People on here are a minority.  But don't let that distract us.  And you've been doing this long enough to know I'm sure that the more decoy one liners you put up the further my post disappears off the page and so it goes away.  But there I am inferring your intent - my bad.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I think it's fairly clear the discussion I am trying to have.  I am not here to have a go at people - I have put forward scenarios that might incline people to ignore it.  That is what is up for discussion, not attacking individual posters.  I am trying to play the ball here.
> 
> An important thing to remember - it is not just about posters here is it?  And I'm referring to the wider population.  People on here are a minority.  But don't let that distract us.  And you've been doing this long enough to know I'm sure that the more decoy one liners you put up the further my post disappears off the page and so it goes away.  But there I am inferring your intent - my bad.


The point is that there has been a very noticeable shift to the right, both on these boards and in Brixton. It's not unusual for posters to be more interested in pursuing point scoring or piss-taking in important discussions, to a degree that it kills the debate dead. The lack of solidarity and support for community issues - both here and in the real world - depresses the fuck out of me. 

Have you been on the Ritzy picket line? On a Cressingham Gardens march? Or joined the library campaigners on their vigils? Or stood alongside the Guinness residents?


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> The point is that there has been a very noticeable shift to the right, both on these boards and in Brixton. It's not unusual for posters to be more interested in pursuing point scoring or piss-taking in important discussions, to a degree that it kills the debate dead. The lack of solidarity and support for community issues - both here and in the real world - depresses the fuck out of me.
> 
> Have you been on the Ritzy picket line? On a Cressingham Gardens march? Or joined the library campaigners on their vigils? Or stood alongside the Guinness residents?


Of course it can end up as points scoring.  I'm actually trying to score a point for reasoned debate and an open mind - don;t talk about point scoring when the automatic response to anybody positing that a different point of view or priority might exist for somebody you don't really know makes them a right wing anti worker troll.  Is that not a fair and reasonable discussion?  Is it not worth discussing the scenarios I posited?

This place can be great - it really opened my eyes to some stuff going on that I don't like and that I will fight against, but the narrow minded way in which reasoned discussions get shut down turn people away and create resentment.  It's doing more harm that good.

What could possibly be wrong with positing the scenario above?  You don't seriously think that everybody can care about everything all of the time do you?  If you at least bothered to run with it and consider some of it then that would do a whole load of good and make this place a much more constructive and interesting place to be, but no - 'so you do;t care because other people pget paid less somewhere else'.  What kind of argument is that?  Let's throw the baby out with the bathwater eh?

No, I haven't been on any of those other marches because while I sympathise with some of them and have signed petitions, I choose to spend my time doing other things that I think are worthwhile.  And to be called a right wing troll is frankly a fucking insult. But I know its the default position, I don't accept it, and my reality is far more important to me than the cartoon caricature you have of me in your head.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

discobastard said:


> No, I haven't been on any of those other marches because while I sympathise with some of them and have signed petitions, I choose to spend my time doing other things that I think are worthwhile.  And to be called a right wing troll is frankly a fucking insult. But I know its the default position, I don't accept it, and my reality is far more important to me than the cartoon caricature you have of me in your head.


And that sums up how Brixton has changed. Solidarity and community has evaporated. Those less well off, or those struggling to keep their homes or battling to feed their families have become less interesting and worthy of discussion than some trendy new restaurant for those all-encompassing "occasional treats" and all the other divisive, exclusive, expensive crap that's continually rolling into town.

And, well, we all know how effective sitting at home and signing petitions are. Solidarity needs more than a remote mouse click.

Just look at the sterling defence of fucking Brewdog that was put up here recently. Like I said, utterly depressing.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> And that sums up how Brixton has changed. Solidarity and community has evaporated. Those less well off, or those struggling to keep their homes or battling to feed their families have become less interesting and worthy of discussion than some trendy new restaurant for those all-encompassing "occasional treats" and all the other divisive, exclusive, expensive crap that's continually rolling into town.
> 
> And, well, we all know how effective sitting at home and signing petitions are.
> 
> Just look at the sterling defence of fucking Brewdog that was put up here. Like I said, utterly depressing.


There you go again.  Shut it down.  Right wing troll.  You have no idea who I am or what I do and don't do with my time.  I never said all I do is sit at home.  Let's infer stuff about people and implicitly criticise them based on a single sentence taken in the context you choose to take it in.

QED.  That's why this place will continue to piss you and everybody else off.  If you can't see that then this conversation certainly won't help.

And you have continued to distract from the original post with more blind alleys.  Good work!

Over and out.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Um - were they not both banned by the moderators, rather than being driven away by tory gentrifiers and hipster toffs?
> 
> There are some narratives - which I risk a ban for even suggesting - to explain the drifting away of many people from the Brixton boards that are rather different from the one you present.
> 
> But people can probably make their own judgement reading the past few pages.



In actual fact I forget Ernesto and Annakey left to form another forum as they found at the time Brixton forum wasnt left wing enough.

That was when I was considered mainstream in my views here. I didn't join it. Despite them asking me to.

I've been on Brixton' forum long enough to see the changes. Which do reflect the gentrification of Brixton.

Btw Hatboy was main moderator of Brixton forum then.

I never used to find Brixton' forum a hostile place to be. I do now. Now either my more reasonable posts are ignored or when I do get annoyed and post up more blunt opinion I suddenly get attention.

Posters here I know have put Brixton forum on ignore or don't post on it.

Posts above from regular posters from other sections of Urban are how Brixton forum is seen now on Urban. I think they are correct.

Yet again the narrative presented is of debate being closed down.

My experience of this site is that Ed and the Mods do a good job. Btw I feel no one really gives Mods credit for work they do.

Running a forum is difficult. Annakey and Ernesto new forum didn't work out in the end.

The Ed who gets so derided here provides free site. The Ed who is accused of "discrepancies" doesn't use peoples data to make money like FB.

To be frank Im sick of the whining.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 13, 2018)

discobastard said:


> QED.



This.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> In actual fact I forget Ernesto and Annakey left to form another forum as they found at the time Brixton forum wasnt left wing enough.
> 
> That was when I was considered mainstream in my views here. I didn't join it.
> 
> ...


Yep. Exactly this. And it's always the same faces who are quick to belittle, blame, sneer and complain or throw around accusations of 'hypocrisy' while they sit back and offer very little or nothing at all.

People lining up to defend Brewdog really was a new low.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Yep. Exactly this. And it's always the same faces who are quick to belittle, blame, sneer and complain or throw around accusations of 'hypocrisy' while they sit back and offer very little or nothing at all.
> 
> People lining up to defend Brewdog really was a new low.



Brewdog thread on politics boards was good thread. Get better posting on Politics boards for issue like this.


----------



## alcopop (Sep 13, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> In actual fact I forget Ernesto and Annakey left to form another forum as they found at the time Brixton forum wasnt left wing enough.
> 
> That was when I was considered mainstream in my views here. I didn't join it. Despite them asking me to.
> 
> ...


I’m sick of the whining also


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Brewdog thread on politics boards was good thread. Get better posting on Politics boards for issue like this.


That's because people in the politics forum are more interested in discussing the issues rather than delivering personal lectures and personal critiques. It's a real shame how the Brixton forum has turned out and there's quite a few people I meet out in the real world who can't believe how awful it's become.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2018)

alcopop said:


> I’m sick of the whining also



This is example of the kind of posting that makes me feel Brixton Forum is hostile place to be now.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> That's because people in the politics forum are more interested in discussing the issues rather than delivering personal lectures and personal critiques. It's a real shame how the Brixton forum has turned out and there's quite a few people I meet out in the real world who can't believe how awful it's become.



Yes I was chatting to someone last week who is active on local issues. He won't post here now.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> In my view the majority of gammon-faced posters on the Daily Mail hark back to their perceptions of a bygone era. That is not really what gentrification is about.
> 
> But it's reassuring to know that you're not open to any sort of debate. Your view or no view. A little immature.



You say this of 3Zeros but when I put up reasoned critique of your views on gentrification you ignore them.

I don't think you want to debate.


----------



## mjd (Sep 13, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Yes I was chatting to someone last week who is active on local issues. He won't post here now.



I think that's a shame. As someone towards whom I imagine this latest criticism is directed, I would welcome the chance to learn more about longstanding local issues and how I could help the area in which I now live.

I can understand how longtime posters feel marginalised by the changes happening in Brixton and to the forum to which they used to turn to vent with, and for support from, likeminded individuals no longer being 100% aligned to their views. But to shut down anyone who is not old Brixton on here and refuse to see their point of view, to level the accusation of "Tory scum" at them without engaging with them on the issues in an open-minded and non-knee jerk way, that seems to me to be short-sighted. We all live here and if we are to continue to do so then we should try to understand a little more about each other and listen to each other's points of view.

My view are not necessarily wrong. They may be more right wing than the views of others on here, but that makes them no less valid as views. Perhaps one of the reasons that the politics forums are better places in which to engage in discussions is because neither side of an argument feels that the other is encroaching on its "turf". I accept that some of my responses could be seen as personal attacks. But that is because so much of what is thrown back, with which all posters in the past may have agreed, is now a personal attack to the changing demographic of the board. So I suppose there is a choice (which I think T&P (?) mentioned earlier). Is the Brixton forum open to anyone, or should anyone '"nu-Brixton" no longer contribute?


----------



## mjd (Sep 13, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> You say this of 3Zeros but when I put up reasoned critique of your views on gentrification you ignore them.
> 
> I don't think you want to debate.



My apologies, I missed that in what seemed to be a rapid posting of messages. I will go back and take a look.


----------



## aka (Sep 13, 2018)

Well, that escalated quickly.


----------



## aka (Sep 13, 2018)

I insist you refer to me now as “a fitness trainer on a short break”


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> I think that's a shame. As someone towards whom I imagine this latest criticism is directed, I would welcome the chance to learn more about longstanding local issues and how I could help the area in which I now live.
> 
> *I can understand how longtime posters feel marginalised by the changes happening in Brixton* and to the forum to which they used to turn to vent with, and for support from, likeminded individuals no longer being 100% aligned to their views. But to shut down anyone who is not old Brixton on here and refuse to see their point of view, to level the accusation of "Tory scum" at them without engaging with them on the issues in an open-minded and non-knee jerk way, that seems to me to be short-sighted. We all live here and if we are to continue to do so then we should try to understand a little more about each other and listen to each other's points of view.
> 
> My view are not necessarily wrong. They may be more right wing than the views of others on here, but that makes them no less valid as views. Perhaps one of the reasons that the politics forums are better places in which to engage in discussions is because neither side of an argument feels that the other is encroaching on its "turf". I accept that some of my responses could be seen as personal attacks. But that is because so much of what is thrown back, with which all posters in the past may have agreed, is now a personal attack to the changing demographic of the board. So I suppose there is a choice (which I think T&P (?) mentioned earlier). Is the Brixton forum open to anyone, or should anyone '"nu-Brixton" no longer contribute?



This is what you said in post 854




> Places change, old stands alongside new, large alongside small and wealth alongside poverty, and we need to learn to accept that without fighting it just for the sake of it.



No you don't understand it.


----------



## mjd (Sep 13, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> This is what you said in post 854
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, perhaps I didn't express myself properly. I meant to say that I understand that changes are happening, and that those changes will make longtime posters feel marginalised. I know that I do not, and cannot ever understand what it feels like for those who are going through it.


----------



## alcopop (Sep 13, 2018)

mjd said:


> Sorry, perhaps I didn't express myself properly. I meant to say that I understand that changes are happening, and that those changes will make longtime posters feel marginalised. I know that I do not, and cannot ever understand what it feels like for those who are going through it.


Change is inevitable


----------



## CH1 (Sep 14, 2018)

In case anyone is bovvered


----------



## RoyReed (Sep 14, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Change is inevitable


But not all change is for the better.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Change is inevitable


Have you got a remotely intelligent point to make?


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

RoyReed said:


> But not all change is for the better.


And the change that is happening in Brixton is making life quantifiably worse for a whole lot of people.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 14, 2018)

CH1 said:


> In case anyone is bovvered




Greens increased vote from last election. LDs did poorly considering the amount of effort they put in.

Still a rock solid Labour ward.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Greens increased vote from last election. LDs did poorly considering the amount of effort they put in.
> 
> Still a rock solid Labour ward.



I thought Brixton was full of tories ?

Alex


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 14, 2018)

editor said:


> And the change that is happening in Brixton is making life quantifiably worse for a whole lot of people.


Do you mean the gentrification of Brixton, taken in isolation, has made life quantifiably worse for a whole lot of people in Brixton.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Greens increased vote from last election. LDs did poorly considering the amount of effort they put in.
> Still a rock solid Labour ward.


I think that is very much so. It also would not surprise me if most Labour voters thought they were voting for Corbyn rather than the policies of the ruling clique at Lambeth council.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Do you mean the gentrification of Brixton, taken in isolation, has made life quantifiably worse for a whole lot of people in Brixton.


I know you don't live here, but I thought that was fairly obvious. Do you think the residents of Cressingham Gardens want their estate flattened? Do you think the arch traders wanted to be kicked out or have their rents doubled or even tripled? Did you think that the Guinness Trust residents or those long serving members of the community in Carlton Mansions, Clifton Mansions, Rushcroft Road etc wanted to be turfed out? Do you think traders wanted their rents doubled or even tripled? Do you think Kaff, The Grosvenor and the Canterbury all wanted to close? Do you think residents have welcomed people shouting and pissing in the streets all night?


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

That Brixton Mall place is selling some seriously tacky/odd items. e.g.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Sep 14, 2018)

editor said:


> That Brixton Mall place is selling some seriously tacky/odd items. e.g.
> 
> View attachment 146955


Urgh!  That is shit!


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> Urgh!  That is shit!


"Being normal is robing"

WTF?!


----------



## xsunnysuex (Sep 14, 2018)

editor said:


> "Being normal is robing"
> 
> WTF?!


Seriously!   How can someone not notice that mistake.


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 14, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> Seriously!   How can someone not notice that mistake.



Pretty sure it's deliberate. As in spelling things correctly is "normal" & "boring". It's a terrible idea with even worse execution.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Sep 14, 2018)

3Zeros said:


> It's a terrible idea with even worse execution.


It's a really terrible idea.  Especially when people don't even realise it's meant to be spelt wrong.   That makes it even more shit!


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

3Zeros said:


> Pretty sure it's deliberate. As in spelling things correctly is "normal" & "boring". It's a terrible idea with even worse execution.


Weird though that they spelt 'Fuck' correctly as that's the one thing you might understand if they chose to obscure the word.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 14, 2018)

safety pins ....it's one to wear in brewdog


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> safety pins ....it's what to wear in brewdog


They like their customers to pogo to the bar to buy their £13 small bottles of beer because they're so fucking punk rock.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 14, 2018)

editor said:


> They like their customers to pogo to the bar to buy their £13 small bottles of beer because they're so fucking punk rock.


Tbf they have nicked some of Malcolm Maclarens business practices.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 14, 2018)

editor said:


> I know you don't live here, but I thought that was fairly obvious. Do you think the residents of Cressingham Gardens want their estate flattened? Do you think the arch traders wanted to be kicked out or have their rents doubled or even tripled? Did you think that the Guinness Trust residents or those long serving members of the community in Carlton Mansions, Clifton Mansions, Rushcroft Road etc wanted to be turfed out? Do you think traders wanted their rents doubled or even tripled? Do you think Kaff, The Grosvenor and the Canterbury all wanted to close? Do you think residents have welcomed people shouting and pissing in the streets all night?


Of course not. I think all that is shit. Nobody on here thinks otherwise. In fact if the Canterbury was still open we would still be living in Brixton. But that’s not what I asked though. 

You said gentrification has made Brixton “quantifiably” worse. That means it has been or can be accurately measured. Or quantified. I doubt it has been and I’m not sure it even could be quantified. My post is just asking if you know better. I would be very interested in reading that


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> You said gentrification has made Brixton “quantifiably” worse. That means it has been or can be accurately measured. Or quantified. I doubt it has been and I’m not sure it even could be quantified. My post is just asking if you know better. I would be very interested in reading that


Jesus. Yes of course it can be 'quantifiably' calculated and measured on an individual basis. Because it affects each person differently. 
But you'd know that if you lived here and talked to people who are on the sharp end of gentrification, rent rises, evictions, the growing poverty divide and the rise of exclusive, unaffordable bars and restaurants for all those essential "occasional treats."


----------



## mjd (Sep 14, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Of course not. I think all that is shit. Nobody on here thinks otherwise. In fact if the Canterbury was still open we would still be living in Brixton. But that’s not what I asked though.
> 
> You said gentrification has made Brixton “quantifiably” worse. That means it has been or can be accurately measured. Or quantified. I doubt it has been and I’m not sure it even could be quantified. My post is just asking if you know better. I would be very interested in reading that



I think he means that cost of living in Brixton (whether rent, food, drink, socialising...) has increased through gentrification at a greater rate and by a greater amount that would be the case through the course of normal inflation, which is easy for someone to quantify.


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 14, 2018)

It's the first birthday of Pure Vinyl at the department store tonight.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

Just saw Guy Garvey from top pop combo Elbow leaving the Prince of Wales.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

Just some poor fella get knocked off his motorbike on Brixton Road. Happily he seemed shaken but not injured.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

Someone has gone to a lot of effort


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 14, 2018)

editor said:


> Jesus. Yes of course it can be 'quantifiably' calculated and measured on an individual basis. Because it affects each person differently.
> But you'd know that if you lived here and talked to people who are on the sharp end of gentrification, rent rises, evictions, the growing poverty divide and the rise of exclusive, unaffordable bars and restaurants for all those essential "occasional treats."



Retro is not worth bothering with. Your wasting your time. Its deliberate wind up.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 14, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I think that is very much so. It also would not surprise me if most Labour voters thought they were voting for Corbyn rather than the policies of the ruling clique at Lambeth council.



Well I wonder about that. One might think the anti semitism issue might have reduced vote. Didn't happen in Coldharbour ward.

Not did the LDs or Greens bring up Labour party anti semitism issue up in their election literature.


----------



## BusLanes (Sep 14, 2018)

I would be loath to bring up anti semitism as a party in literature, if just because it might normalise it. Besides, I bet it comes up at the door regularly enough when people tell off Labour canvassers. Would be interesting to know from anyone who did it for them if it did come up much


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 14, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> I would be loath to bring up anti semitism as a party in literature, if just because it might normalise it. Besides, I bet it comes up at the door regularly enough when people tell off Labour canvassers. Would be interesting to know from anyone who did it for them if it did come up much



Clearly didn't happen In Coldharbour ward then. A solidly working class ward. If results are anything to go by. If people felt Labour party was racist vote would have suffered. I don't hear people in area saying the Labour party is racist. And a lot of working class Labour voters are from ethnic minorities in this ward.

I canvessed for Rachel at recent election for Council and it never came up.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Well I wonder about that. One might think the anti semitism issue might have reduced vote. Didn't happen in Coldharbour ward.
> 
> Not did the LDs or Greens bring up Labour party anti semitism issue up in their election literature.


I guess even if the Greens were playing dirty (as far as I know they weren't) they might steer clear of the anti-Semitism issue because they have their own debate on this for some of the same reasons:
Caroline Lucas resigns from the Stop the War Coalition
this Wikipedia article might explain why if you go to the last section (notable members). Jeremy Corbyn and George Galloway are on the list - both have been vigorously attacked as anti-Semites.
I confess I'm a bit naive on this issue, but I managed to acquire this book

by the former councillor for Brixton Hill Ward (or Town Hall ward as it then was 1986-1990) and now MP for Bassettlaw (and scourge of Ken Livingstone).
Maybe when I've tucked into this I can provide a full assessment.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2018)

Five requests for James fucking Blunt tonight from the gillet  wearing gang. What has happened to Brixton?


----------



## discobastard (Sep 15, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> My experience of this site is that Ed and the Mods do a good job. Btw I feel no one really gives Mods credit for work they do.



Never mind


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Never mind


Do you have a point, or are you just busy acting like a dick?


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 15, 2018)

mjd said:


> I think he means that cost of living in Brixton (whether rent, food, drink, socialising...) has increased through gentrification at a greater rate and by a greater amount that would be the case through the course of normal inflation, which is easy for someone to quantify.


Yes. Would love to see this quantification on an area like Brixton or Hackney as a whole. Individual cases will be worse off but I wonder as a whole are neighbourhoods quantifiably worse off.  

After recently reading Factfulness I’ve been trying to find info on this. Looking places like in places like ONS etc I can’t find anything.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 15, 2018)

Depends what your criteria for worse off would be?

How do you quantify Brixton or Hackney? 

You'd have to break it down into wards, Businesses, residents, local charities (are they needing more or less)

Is it just financial? Can you measure the happiness, hopes, comfort, dreams of people.

Can you measure the impact of losing long term residents and businesses on today's Brixton and it's remaining/current residents?

Quite a task to measure. I wonder if it's been done anywhere before?


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 15, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Yes. Would love to see this quantification on an area like Brixton or Hackney as a whole. Individual cases will be worse off but I wonder as a whole are neighbourhoods quantifiably worse off.
> 
> After recently reading Factfulness I’ve been trying to find info on this. Looking places like in places like ONS etc I can’t find anything.



Think you're barking up the wrong tree here my friend, of course neighbourhoods will be quantifiably  better off under gentrification because the quantifiably worse off are the ones who are being replaced by yuppies. Also much of the negative impact is not quantifiable but emotional, like for example replacing wc pubs with yuppie bars or flats will lead to isolation and less community thereby making more people leave [you said as much in your comment about the Canterbury elsewhere]. I am actually a little concerned that your insistence on statistics and factfulness [lol] betrays a  [deliberate] misunderstanding and that kind of undermines your qualification to comment on the process cos you might well be someone benefitting from it....


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 15, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Depends what your criteria for worse off would be?
> 
> How do you quantify Brixton or Hackney?
> 
> ...


Yes very difficult to measure. I couldn’t find anywhere it has been done, which is why I was interested when editor brought it up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 15, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I guess even if the Greens were playing dirty (as far as I know they weren't) they might steer clear of the anti-Semitism issue because they have their own debate on this for some of the same reasons:
> Caroline Lucas resigns from the Stop the War Coalition
> this Wikipedia article might explain why if you go to the last section (notable members). Jeremy Corbyn and George Galloway are on the list - both have been vigorously attacked as anti-Semites.
> I confess I'm a bit naive on this issue, but I managed to acquire this book
> ...


misogyny an aulder hatred. But wouldn't expect a mann to recognise that


----------



## alcopop (Sep 15, 2018)

RoyReed said:


> But not all change is for the better.


Nothing is so painful to the human mind as a great and sudden change


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Think you're barking up the wrong tree here my friend, of course neighbourhoods will be quantifiably  better off under gentrification because the quantifiably worse off are the ones who are being replaced by yuppies. Also much of the negative impact is not quantifiable but emotional, like for example replacing wc pubs with yuppie bars or flats will lead to isolation and less community thereby making more people leave [you said as much in your comment about the Canterbury elsewhere]. I am actually a little concerned that your insistence on statistics and factfulness [lol] betrays a  [deliberate] misunderstanding and that kind of undermines your qualification to comment on the process cos you might well be someone benefitting from it....


Yep. You've nailed it right there.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 15, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Yes very difficult to measure. I couldn’t find anywhere it has been done, which is why I was interested when editor brought it up.



You brought up quantifying the effects of gentrification.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 15, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> You brought up quantifying the effects of gentrication.


I think you’ll find it was the editor. But I’m not interested in arguing here. It does seem the usual suspects are though.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 15, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> I think you’ll find it was the editor. But I’m not interested in arguing here. It does seem the usual suspects are though.



Just looked back. You are right, he did use the word first.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Just looked back. You are right, he did use the word first.


Yes, but Mr Retro wanted to run with what is an absolutely obvious statement and deliver some Huge Fact-Laden Point or another which failed to get off the ground (see post #1062).


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 15, 2018)

editor said:


> Yes, but Mr Retro wanted to run with what is an absolutely obvious statement and deliver some Huge Fact-Laden Point or another which failed to get off the ground (see post #1062).



Maybe, but I do have to hold my hands up when I have got it wrong.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2018)

Just walked through party town Brixton. Stag and hen parties in full effect marching up Electric Avenue, mass street pissing everywhere with a bonus double puke on Coldharbour Lane. I wonder what treats await in Windrush Square and Effra Road?!


----------



## Mardybum (Sep 16, 2018)

Anyone know what the massive party with sound system going on in the Sudbourne road area last night was about? I've got used to resorting to earplugs at the weekend as drunk posh people will inevitably be braying outside at 3 in the morning on their way home, but last night had to resort to sleeping on my hallway floor to get some peace. Just curious what was going on .. Sounded like a big bash..


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2018)

This was fun:

















In photos: Just Vibez DJs bring the party to Brixton’s Black Cultural Archives, Sat 15th Sept 2018


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 16, 2018)

editor said:


> Yes, but Mr Retro wanted to run with what is an absolutely obvious statement and deliver some Huge Fact-Laden Point or another which failed to get off the ground (see post #1062).



It was imo obvious bait to get posters going. There were no facts. Then make posters appear unreasonable. Retro is master at this.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 17, 2018)

The type of discussion I was trying to have, I realise is not possible here. I may return to it later if I have the energy.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> The type of discussion I was trying to have, I realise is not possible here. I may return to it later if I have the energy.


Shame you can't be honest about your motives here, especially seeing as I wasn't the only poster to rumble you. Oh well.

Back to actual Brixton news, these went up as part of the Design Trail. I like them. I was asked to contribute but I felt uncomfortable about sticking art prints over street art. 












Brixton Design Trail 2018 – Protest posters on Atlantic Road, Brixton


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2018)

Pics from Sat night at the Hoot





















In photos: Saturday night at Brixton’s Hootananny – beer, bands, food and DJs


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2018)

This is shocking: 28% of families in London are living in poverty compared to 16.6% in the South-east

Given that some areas in Brixton are amongst the most deprived in London, that suggests that there's plenty of families enduring real hardship.

And: 



> Lambeth is an inner London borough with a mixed picture on poverty and inequality. The poverty rate of almost 30% is above the London average of 27%. Lambeth has a high rate of infant mortality and premature mortality as well. 59% of Lambeth homeless households who the borough places in temporary accommodation are moved outside the borough, which is the second highest rate in London. On the positive side, Lambeth is in the lower half of boroughs for evictions and above average for delivery of affordable homes. 19.5% of workers here earn less than the living wage, which is lower than the London average of 21%.



Lambeth


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2018)

For the second time in three days I've walked past an accident on Brixton Road. This one looks serious with a lot of police and medics in attendance. 

Brixton Road has to be one of the most dangerous in the borough.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 17, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> It was imo obvious bait to get posters going. There were no facts. Then make posters appear unreasonable. Retro is master at this.


Nice to know he's a master at something


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 17, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Nice to know he's a master at something


Baiting ? Oooh Matron


----------



## BusLanes (Sep 17, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I guess even if the Greens were playing dirty (as far as I know they weren't) they might steer clear of the anti-Semitism issue because they have their own debate on this for some of the same reasons:
> Caroline Lucas resigns from the Stop the War Coalition
> this Wikipedia article might explain why if you go to the last section (notable members). Jeremy Corbyn and George Galloway are on the list - both have been vigorously attacked as anti-Semites.
> I confess I'm a bit naive on this issue, but I managed to acquire this book
> ...



That looks very interesting


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2018)

Seems that my gut feeling about not wanting to plaster my photos over the work of a graffiti artist was well founded:


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2018)

These banners should be put up all around Brixton.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 17, 2018)

editor said:


> Do you have a point, or are you just busy acting like a dick?



Why do you feel the need to insult so?  I thought that was 'not allowed'.  I started to write a post and then decided against it. Simple as that. Grow up ffs.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Why do you feel the need to insult so?  I thought that was 'not allowed'.  I started to write a post and then decided against it. Simple as that. Grow up ffs.


Please refrain from engaging or mentioning my posts in the future because your responses rarely add anything of interest or value to a discussion about Brixton. Thank you most kindly.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 18, 2018)

editor said:


> Please refrain from engaging or mentioning my posts in the future because your responses rarely add anything of interest or value to a discussion about Brixton. Thank you most kindly.


It seems to me that you don't want to engage with them because you're not sure how to answer them.  And as pointed out above (even though I am quite happy and open enough to to admit I agree with a lot of the issues you have brought to people's attention and that I respect a lot of your views), anything I say or suggest for discussion that is remotely off message gets shut down with 'right wing troll' or some other zero sum nonsense.  

Of course, not all of my posts add something, but you could say that about a lot of posts on here.  If you really find me that offensive, then feel free to ban me.  While it would make it clear you're happy to censor people, it's better than throwing round schoolyards insults.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2018)

discobastard said:


> It seems to me that you don't want to engage with them because you're not sure how to answer them.  And as pointed out above (even though I am quite happy and open enough to to admit I agree with a lot of the issues you have brought to people's attention and that I respect a lot of your views), anything I say or suggest for discussion that is remotely off message gets shut down with 'right wing troll' or some other zero sum nonsense.
> 
> Of course, not all of my posts add something, but you could say that about a lot of posts on here.  If you really find me that offensive, then feel free to ban me.  While it would make it clear you're happy to censor people, it's better than throwing round schoolyards insults.


No idea who the "t_hem_" are, I've never called you a "right wing troll," and I've never said I was going to ban you either.

But as your last post succinctly proves, you're far more interested in pursuing a personal agenda than engaging with the plethora of infinitely more interesting discussions about Brixton. I'm really not interested in discussing what you think about me, so I once again suggest you  refrain from engaging or mentioning my posts in the future for the good of the forum. 

Talk about Brixton instead. It's really far more interesting.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 18, 2018)

editor said:


> No idea who the "t_hem_" are, I've never called you a "right wing troll," and I've never said I was going to ban you either.
> 
> But as your last post succinctly proves, you're far more interested in pursuing a personal agenda than engaging with the plethora of infinitely more interesting discussions about Brixton. I'm really not interested in discussing what you think about me, so I once again suggest you  refrain from engaging or mentioning my posts in the future for the good of the forum.
> 
> Talk about Brixton instead. It's really far more interesting.


I refer you to my earlier post about Picturehouse and why not everybody may be actively supporting the boycott/strike action.  That was meant to be a comment/area for discussion regards your previous point about why it is such a shame people still drink there/don't attend the pickets.  It was not meant as a defence of Picturehouse or anything else as I hope you well know.  It's about Brixton, and as far as I am concerned, a vaguely interesting point of view.  But it was shut down with a number of distractions.  Perhaps there are a list of things I'm not party to that are defined as 'interesting'.  Let me know what I *can* discuss.

ANYWAY.  Think we're done with this aren't we.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 18, 2018)

Brixton Pound are holding a Brixton-themed pub quiz at Market House tomorrow evening, pay what you can entry and prize is £50 brixton pounds. Anyone fancy joining me and forming an urban team? I reckon we'd smash it.
SxSW9 presents The Ultimate Brixton Pub Quiz


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Brixton Pound are holding a Brixton-themed pub quiz at Market House tomorrow evening, pay what you can entry and prize is £50 brixton pounds. Anyone fancy joining me and forming an urban team? I reckon we'd smash it.
> SxSW9 presents The Ultimate Brixton Pub Quiz


I can't make it, but I'm going to post up a Buzz piece tomorrow to give the event a push.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2018)

Lambeth is pretty poor on this year's Car Free Day. I can remember when it seemed a much bigger thing. 

TfL Press Release - Streets across London will be transformed for communities on World Car Free Day


----------



## T & P (Sep 18, 2018)

I went for a pint this evening at a pub (not in Brixton) that happened to be holding a quiz night. I was surprised how many mobile phones were on the tables, even if not visibly being used by players during the questions. A majority of people will be decent enough not to try to gain an unfair advantage by looking up answers, but out of a group of 40-plus people taking part in a quiz, there's bound to be at least one dishonest bastard. I was surprised the quizmaster in this pub didn't have a zero tolerance on mobiles being anywhere but tucked away and out of reach.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2018)

T & P said:


> I went for a pint this evening at a pub (not in Brixton) that happened to be holding a quiz night. I was surprised how many mobile phones were on the tables, even if not visibly being used by players during the questions. A majority of people will be decent enough not to try to gain an unfair advantage by looking up answers, but out of a group of 40-plus people taking part in a quiz, there's bound to be at least one dishonest bastard. I was surprised the quizmaster in this pub didn't have a zero tolerance on mobiles being anywhere but tucked away and out of reach.


That is strange. On a vaguely related note, I was surprised how popular the Tues night quiz at the Effra Social is. There was over 70 people booked in by this afternoon.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2018)

editor said:


> That is strange. On a vaguely related note, I was surprised how popular the Tues night quiz at the Effra Social is. There was over 70 people booked in by this afternoon.


It’s a good quiz and you can win over 200 quid. I go sometimes and we’ve won quite a few times.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2018)

Buzzed:  Jon Daniel – Afro Supa Hero at Brixton’s 198 Contemporary Arts (till 26th Oct 2018)


----------



## billythefish (Sep 19, 2018)

T & P said:


> I went for a pint this evening at a pub (not in Brixton) that happened to be holding a quiz night. I was surprised how many mobile phones were on the tables, even if not visibly being used by players during the questions. A majority of people will be decent enough not to try to gain an unfair advantage by looking up answers, but out of a group of 40-plus people taking part in a quiz, there's bound to be at least one dishonest bastard. I was surprised the quizmaster in this pub didn't have a zero tolerance on mobiles being anywhere but tucked away and out of reach.


The Rosendale used to get around this by doing a quick-fire quiz, so there was no time to look things up between questions. You either knew the answer or you didn't. People still attempted to cheat, but they had to take it in turns and usually gave up.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2018)

billythefish said:


> The Rosendale used to get around this by doing a quick-fire quiz, so there was no time to look things up between questions. You either knew the answer or you didn't. People still attempted to cheat, but they had to take it in turns and usually gave up.


I'd hotwire the seats so anyone activating their phone during the quiz would get a cattle prod up their nether regions.


----------



## sealion (Sep 19, 2018)

Just noticed a sign above the door at the fridge- No food and drink allowed this includes chewing gum-  Not sure if it's tokenism or a licensing stipulation.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2018)

sealion said:


> Just noticed a sign above the door at the fridge- No food and drink allowed this includes chewing gum-  Not sure if it's tokenism or a licensing stipulation.


People who throw their gum on the floor are fucking arseholes.


----------



## Angellic (Sep 19, 2018)

sealion said:


> Just noticed a sign above the door at the fridge- No food and drink allowed this includes chewing gum-  Not sure if it's tokenism or a licensing stipulation.



Doesn't sound unreasonable to me.


----------



## sealion (Sep 19, 2018)

editor said:


> People who throw their gum on the floor are fucking arseholes.


yeah, i thought it might have been a deterent for people hiding pills and powders.


----------



## klang (Sep 19, 2018)

the bouncers at Scala once took a half eaten Mars Bar off me which I reclaimed when leaving the venue.


----------



## 3Zeros (Sep 19, 2018)

editor said:


> People who throw their gum on the floor are fucking arseholes.



It's definitely this. I've been to a few events there where they confiscated gum. It ruins floors.

I was at Studio 338 on Sunday and there were huge bowls of confiscated chewing gum packets. The search pretty much amounted to "2nd base" too.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 19, 2018)

There's an amazing anti war anti Trump design exhibition thingy on at the former Bowling Green in the basement level of Brixton Rec (free of charge)

I don't carry a phone so can't give pictures. But there's a lot to take pictures of - including what I at first thought was a vampire squid - but turned out to be a Kraken symbolising the destruction of the environment wrought by BP.

There's even seditious anti tourism posters from Barcelona, and what look like Catalan anti establishment stuff too.

Where's the people with major cameras - and where's Brixto Buzz this week?

PS exhibition ends on Sunday I think - so better get on in there.
It's Nice That | New anti-arms protest exhibition featuring the Guerilla Girls and Jeremy Deller to open this weekend


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Sep 19, 2018)

I've heard some bad reports about the staff and how 338 in general is run. All the alarm bell stuff like no cold tap water, violent and aggressive bouncers, large scale thievery, searches that could count as sexual assault, huge bar queues for shite drinks etc etc.

makes me wonder if that fire they had a couple of years ago was really an accident at all.


----------



## theboris (Sep 20, 2018)

editor said:


> I'd hotwire the seats so anyone activating their phone during the quiz would get a cattle prod up their nether regions.


I've hosted pub quizzes and I prefer it when there ISN'T a big cash prize. Instead have a round of drinks for the winning team. It discourages cheats and ringers and makes it more fun


----------



## brixtonscot (Sep 20, 2018)

CH1 said:


> There's an amazing anti war anti Trump design exhibition thingy on at the former Bowling Green in the basement level of Brixton Rec (free of charge)
> 
> I don't carry a phone so can't give pictures. But there's a lot to take pictures of - including what I at first thought was a vampire squid - but turned out to be a Kraken symbolising the destruction of the environment wrought by BP.
> 
> ...


Some photos


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 20, 2018)

Wrong thread


----------



## twistedAM (Sep 22, 2018)

Anyone know where in Brixton they'll be showing the Joshua-other guy fight? Asking for a friend.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 22, 2018)

twistedAM said:


> Anyone know where in Brixton they'll be showing the Joshua-other guy fight? Asking for a friend.


Probably on at The Swan.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 23, 2018)

Does anyone know if the knitting group still meets at the Effra Social on Wednesday's? Or, is there any kind person on here who can crochet who would be willing to help me with my single and double stitch in return for food/beer/remuneration of choice?


----------



## CH1 (Sep 23, 2018)

Someone might be interested in this interview with Neil Kenlock filmed by RT at BCA. editor already put up some pics here a while back.

Neil Kenlock has an exhibition of photographs documenting Afro Caribbean life in the area in the 1970s and 80s I think.

The exhibition ends on 28th September - but might be an idea to check with BCA before visiting. I went there 2 weeks ago with a friend and we were told some of the work was inaccessible due to a conference in some of the rooms.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2018)

I went to the Nope to Hope exhibition. Meant to end today but looks like will stay open for another week.

Exhibition of radical political artwork. At Brixton Rec


A few photos


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 24, 2018)

A few more.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 24, 2018)

Nope to Hope: an exhibition of graphic design, craft and grassroots resistance, Brixton Rec 15-23rd Sept


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 24, 2018)




----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 24, 2018)

Must have missed you Gramsci!

It's a great exhibition. Good to see it open for another week.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 26, 2018)

Its not summer anymore...is it?

New thread.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 26, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Its not summer anymore...is it?
> 
> New thread.



It certainly doesn’t feel like it!


----------



## theboris (Sep 27, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> It certainly doesn’t feel like it!



It's fantastic summery weather today and was yesterday too


----------



## teuchter (Sep 27, 2018)

The wind swings round to the NE tonight and we lose at least 5 degrees from tomorrow.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 27, 2018)

It is lovely today, although I had my fire on over the weekend.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2018)

Tonight: Every Thursday: Bring your own vinyl night at the Prince Albert, Brixton – free

And next month: ‘Leaving Home At Seven’ – Black History month film premiere event in Brixton, Oct 5th


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 27, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Brewdog may well be the first “nighttime economy” payer of the living wage in Brixton.
> 
> Bet all that happens is people whine about their prices.
> 
> Alex


I think their beer is fizzy and crap too.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2018)

Loved this bloke's look  






Brixton pic of the day: The man with the cape and the shiny boots in Brixton tube


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 27, 2018)

Hi all - The Sleepless in Brixton lot have mailed it out and the deadline for submission is 24th of Oct.

Consultation on Lambeth’s draft new Statement of Licensing Policy

I haven't entirely caught up with this thread, having been away a couple of weeks, so apologies if this has already been posted.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 27, 2018)

Winot said:


> It's dreadful isn't it? Although apparently it's the only place for miles around that has any kind of funding to help the homeless and so other places basically kick their homeless populations into SF.


Seattle was just as bad if not worse. Significant problems in Portland and Vancouver as well. I was pretty shocked to see one man who must have been in his nineties living on the street in Vancouver, which does at least have a proper welfare system afaik.


----------



## Winot (Sep 27, 2018)

Ms T said:


> Seattle was just as bad if not worse. Significant problems in Portland and Vancouver as well. I was pretty shocked to see one man who must have been in his nineties living on the street in Vancouver, which does at least have a proper welfare system afaik.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2018)

Wanky estate agents using a local charity for inner city kids to help flog off ex-council flats. Classy. 

They've since taken the post down.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2018)

PoW last night 












In photos: Thursday night live jazz at Brixton’s Prince of Wales


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 28, 2018)

editor said:


> View attachment 148269
> 
> Wanky estate agents using a local charity for inner city kids to help flog off ex-council flats. Classy.
> 
> They've since taken the post down.



I wonder how much they donate to Ebony Pony Club in return for using it to help sell property?


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2018)

gaijingirl said:


> I wonder how much they donate to Ebony Pony Club in return for using it to help sell property?


A round nuppence, I'd guess.  But then these wankers have form for taking the piss:: Estate agents Haart spam Brixton with illegal signposting campaign


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2018)




----------



## CH1 (Sep 28, 2018)

There is a consultation being launched by TFL into central London bus services.
Routes affected include 3, 35, 45, 40, 59 and issues include reduction of frequency and curtailment of routes.

(Just in case anyone is bored and enjoys responding to this sort of thing)


----------



## teuchter (Sep 28, 2018)

CH1 said:


> There is a consultation being launched by TFL into central London bus services.
> Routes affected include 3, 35, 45, 40, 59 and issues include reduction of frequency and curtailment of routes.
> 
> (Just in case anyone is bored and enjoys responding to this sort of thing)


They have somehow managed to write that explanation of why they are doing what they are doing, without mentioning Uber or the problems with TfL's budget.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2018)

Brixton's Brother Culture has been arrested in Mexico without charge. Not sure what the 'unsavoury location' means....


----------



## Ms T (Oct 1, 2018)

Solomon Smith from Brixton Soup Kitchen is on BBC News right now - talking about a charity fundraising scam.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 1, 2018)

surely it's autumn now.

it's bloody October and leaves are coming off trees.


----------



## urbanspaceman (Oct 1, 2018)

Ms T said:


> Solomon Smith from Brixton Soup Kitchen is on BBC News right now - talking about a charity fundraising scam.



Some background:

Hundreds of generous Brits scammed out of thousands by bogus chugging charity

Soup kitchen founder says falling victim to 'fraudulent' fundraiser was 'heartbreaking'


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2018)

Dan U said:


> surely it's autumn now.
> 
> it's bloody October and leaves are coming off trees.


I've decided to stick with the naming convention of Argos catalogues, so this thread now covers Summer-Autumn 2018.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2018)

Tonight: Tonight! The brilliant Brixton Bookjam returns to Hootananny, Mon 1st Oct – admission free


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2018)

And also coming up: Upcoming Lambeth Housing Activists meetings: Oct 1st, Nov 5th and 3rd Dec 2018


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 1, 2018)

urbanspaceman said:


> Some background:
> 
> Hundreds of generous Brits scammed out of thousands by bogus chugging charity
> 
> Soup kitchen founder says falling victim to 'fraudulent' fundraiser was 'heartbreaking'



They've (Vertigo) been in the press about it before: Children’s charity warns of unauthorised fundraising done in its name 
Given that it's a sole trader, only registered in July and claims to be operating from the BP offices in Canary Wharf they look well dodgy...


----------



## teuchter (Oct 1, 2018)

"vertigo child solutions" is a slightly sinister company name to go for.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 1, 2018)

editor said:


> I've decided to stick with the naming convention of Argos catalogues, so this thread now covers Summer-Autumn 2018.





the thread can be virtually wheeled in on a pallet covered in shrink wrap.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> They've (Vertigo) been in the press about it before: Children’s charity warns of unauthorised fundraising done in its name
> Given that it's a sole trader, only registered in July and claims to be operating from the BP offices in Canary Wharf they look well dodgy...


I have to say that I'd be very reluctant to give money to someone claiming to be collecting on behalf of "Vertigo Child Solutions."

I hope they catch these scumbags.


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 1, 2018)

Singular scum person I suspect - and the street fundraisers will have been badged with CIFF or Brixton Soup Kitchen logos etc.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2018)

Sad news Brixton Topcats basketball legend Jimmy Rogers dies at the age of 75


----------



## northeast (Oct 1, 2018)

anyone else see this Staff accuse Lambeth council of institutional racism


----------



## northeast (Oct 1, 2018)

northeast said:


> anyone else see this Staff accuse Lambeth council of institutional racism



Just saw it got posted in the more obvious forum about Lambeth council...


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 2, 2018)

Cops in attendance at Sports direct/van mildert mini mall popes road


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2018)

We're DJing the Dogstar on Friday night - drop me a line if you want free passes 







Bag your free guest tickets for Beyoncé to Britpop Brixton Buzz party at the Dogstar, Fri 5th Oct 2018


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2018)

A sad loss. RIP Simon The King King. 

Help raise £4000 to pay for Simon's funeral cost and a worthy send off to the great man x


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Oct 2, 2018)

editor said:


> We're DJing the Dogstar on Friday night - drop me a line if you want free passes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Britpop caused Brexit.... (discuss)  I won't be going , sorry.


----------



## editor (Oct 3, 2018)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Britpop caused Brexit.... (discuss)  I won't be going , sorry.



Err, OK. And all the other artists that we play? 

Oh, and for your reference: 
Damon Albarn hits out at Brexit as Gorillaz win at BRIT Awards 2018 - NME
Jarvis Cocker compares Brexit vote result to the UK charts


----------



## editor (Oct 3, 2018)

For anyone who knew Simon. I'm getting really pissed off with people I know dying.


----------



## editor (Oct 3, 2018)

I'm liking this (add recognising a couple of my pics in the background!)

Brixton tube station gets wonderful new artwork – ‘Remain, Thriving’ by Akunyili Crosby


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 4, 2018)

Good to join the McStrikers this morning


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 4, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm liking this (add recognising a couple of my pics in the background!)
> 
> Brixton tube station gets wonderful new artwork – ‘Remain, Thriving’ by Akunyili Crosby



I love this. I've been avoiding Brixton tube, so it was great to come through and spot this last week.....


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2018)

Some photos from Market House on Sat. It's the first time I've DJd there on my own and as Nanker Phelge will testify it can be a really tough gig sometimes. But it went really well. I finally had a crowd who weren't asking for RnfuckingB all night long!
















In photos: Brixton Buzz party at Market House, Brixton – Sat 29th Sept 2018


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 4, 2018)

When you get a good crowd and win them over it can be great in there....


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> When you get a good crowd and win them over it can be great in there....


I always prefer to DJ with someone else at Market House as it takes some of the stress out and you've got someone to chat to if things go quiet, but this was pretty much busy from the start right till the end.

 And this was despite the efforts of their lunatic 'sound' man who thought the start of a set was the right time to loudly experiment with the PA's crossover settings, leaving people covering their ears as the most awful shrieking sound persisted for some 15-20 mins and swiftly emptied the dance floor.

He did it when I was DJing downstairs there a few weeks ago and he really is the most clueless fucking twat I've ever encountered anywhere near PA equipment. I've made it a requirement that he's nowhere near the venue next time I'm there.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 4, 2018)

editor said:


> I always prefer to DJ with someone else at Market House as it takes some of the stress out and you've got someone to chat to if things go quiet, but this was pretty much busy from the start right till the end.
> 
> And this was despite the efforts of their lunatic 'sound' man who thought the start of a set was the right time to loudly experiment with the PA's crossover settings, leaving people covering their ears as the most awful shrieking sound persisted for some 15-20 mins and emptying the dance floor.
> 
> He did it when I was DJing downstairs there a few weeks ago and he really is the most clueless fucking twat I've ever encountered anywhere near PA equipment. I've made it a requirement that he's nowhere near the venue next time I'm there.



A sound man? what new chaos is this?


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> A sound man? what new chaos is this?


With any luck he's now been sacked. I later learnt that his actual job was just to plug in the decks for the DJs but he decided to fuck around with the PA settings because he thought he knew best or something. The dickhead tried to tell me what to play at one point (his own DJ experience = zero), and then he thought he could rock up and start adjusting the EQ of the songs I was playing. I've never come across such a disrespectful, clueless twat and nearly came to blows with him at the end of the night.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2018)

Did anyone grab any pics from the McDonalds strike in Brixton? Love to run them on Buzz.


----------



## sealion (Oct 4, 2018)

editor said:


> I later learnt that his actual job was just to plug in the decks for the DJs but he decided to fuck around with the PA settings because he thought he knew best or something.


It sounds like the same tit that ruined a good night in the half moon a few years back. Spotty little oik twiddling knobs all night. I told him that i could use the mixer for gains and drops, he asked me if was i qualified in sound distribution  i have shoes that were older than him


----------



## Mr Retro (Oct 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Good to join the McStrikers this morning


Low paid workers picket Brixton McDonald’s


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 4, 2018)

editor said:


> With any luck he's now been sacked. I later learnt that his actual job was just to plug in the decks for the DJs but he decided to fuck around with the PA settings because he thought he knew best or something. The dickhead tried to tell me what to play at one point (his own DJ experience = zero), and then he thought he could rock up and start adjusting the EQ of the songs I was playing. I've never come across such a disrespectful, clueless twat and nearly came to blows with him at the end of the night.



There was once a guy in there (who is another DJ who I shall not name) who was doing the sound on the side and he killed us dead mid-set one night and I lost my rag with him, because he didn't need to fiddle with anything...it was sounding fine. We've never spoken since.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2018)

Photos from today's strike action. Big up the workers!

Brixton McDonalds workers take action to demand a decent wage, Thurs 4th Oct 2018


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2018)

How much is that bloody road repainting going to cost? Once again there was shitloads of workers/road closures/police last night to enable it.

I'd love to know how the costs compared to earlier bridge repaintings....


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2018)

One for the yummy mummies at the department store. Just £17.
The positive impact of Motherhood on your careers

And then you can laugh along with the Scummy Mummies for £25+
Scummy Mummies comedy night at The Dept. Store.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 4, 2018)

editor said:


> View attachment 148803
> 
> How much is that bloody road repainting going to cost? Once again there was shitloads of workers/road closures/police last night to enable it.
> 
> I'd love to know how the costs compared to earlier bridge repaintings....



Here we go: [pdf]

"The prize for the winning design will be a £10,000 fixed-fee commission.

The cost of materials, installation will be met by the Council up to £20,000, alongside and access equipment, which is provided by the Council’s contractor."

The Progress crowd at the Town Hall certainly do like dressing things up.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 4, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Good to join the McStrikers this morning



They were still outside the Macdonalds when I arrived in Brixton and I only managed to say solidarity to one of them before they all traipsed over the road and I had to run for my bus. What happened next?


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2018)

If you're quick, there's an Amazon truck on Somerleyton Road selling the Echo gadget for thirty quid off.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2018)

Oh for fuck's sake, there's what looks like a purple-clad rejig of those racist homophobic religious nutjobs who have decided cause a noisy obstruction on the pavement, surrounded by a handful of rather aggressive looking purple chums, all filming each other.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2018)

editor said:


> If you're quick, there's an Amazon truck on Somerleyton Road selling the Echo gadget for thirty quid off.


Did you get one?


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Did you get one?


Nope. They'd have to be free to get me interested.


----------



## ash (Oct 5, 2018)

editor said:


> Oh for fuck's sake, there's what looks like a purple-clad rejig of those racist homophobic religious nutjobs who have decided cause a noisy obstruction on the pavement, surrounded by a handful of rather aggressive looking purple chums, all filming each other.



I saw them too; they seemed to have minders standing at every corner looking  menacing. I couldn’t really hear what they were staying as it was quite distorted just ‘scriptures’, ‘shalom’ and a lot of angry shouting. Tbh under the robes and looking at the faces most of them looked quite vulnerable not sharp and smart looking like the Nation of Islam lot.
I wonder how they recruit!?


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2018)

ash said:


> I saw them too; they seemed to have minders standing at every corner looking  menacing. I couldn’t really hear what they were staying as it was quite distorted just ‘scriptures’, ‘shalom’ and a lot of angry shouting. Tbh under the robes and looking at the faces most of them looked quite vulnerable not sharp and smart looking like the Nation of Islam lot.
> I wonder how they recruit!?


It's now just a big shouting match. Last time I confronted their bigoted drivel I nearly got into a fight with one of the nutcases, so I'll just turn up my earphones. The good news is that their PA seems to have stopped working


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2018)

This is a GREAT night




WIN TICKETS for Brixton Wonderland: The Mad Hatter’s Mad Hat Party, Sat 13th Oct @pow_london


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2018)

Here's those fucking muppets from last night:


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2018)

THIS is what Pop Brixton was set up for!







Brixtoberfest promises a ‘Bavarian Beer Hall celebration’ in Pop Brixton, 12th-13th October


----------



## klang (Oct 7, 2018)

editor said:


> Here's those fucking muppets from last night:
> 
> View attachment 148985


ah them, we get them in Totts too. never fully got what they are about, but no really interested in finding out.


----------



## newbie (Oct 8, 2018)

I don't often look at these threads, nor do BTL comments on Guardian articles.  But I made an exception for this one and discovered you get moderated away for using words like 'gentrification', 'social cleansing', 'housing profit' and so on.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2018)

newbie said:


> I don't often look at these threads, nor do BTL comments on Guardian articles.  But I made an exception for this one and discovered you get moderated away for using words like 'gentrification', 'social cleansing', 'housing profit' and so on.


"Also, we love living in Brixton. It’s diverse, vibrant and busy"

Always vibrant. Until the incomers with young children/very important jobs start complaining that the aforementioned vibrancy is impacting on their crucial lifestyle choices so they try to get the local vibrancy turned down to a level that suits them personally.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2018)

editor said:


> Here's those fucking muppets from last night:
> 
> View attachment 148985


if only you could get multipacks of crucifixes.


----------



## newbie (Oct 8, 2018)

editor said:


> "Also, we love living in Brixton. It’s diverse, vibrant and busy"
> 
> Always vibrant. Until the incomers with young children/very important jobs start complaining that the aforementioned vibrancy is impacting on their crucial lifestyle choices so they try to get the local vibrancy turned down to a level that suits them personally.


Indeed. Perhaps I was too sarcastic in my use of 'vibrant' in the posts that got pulled


----------



## Angellic (Oct 8, 2018)

What do, or maybe did, people find most appealing about living in Brixton?


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2018)

Angellic said:


> What do, or maybe did, people find most appealing about living in Brixton?


Sense of community. The feeling that everyone was welcome and when people moved to Brixton they generally wanted _to become part of it_. Living somewhere that that wasn't being divided up on class and money lines. Living somewhere that wasn't being repackaged and sold as a 'destination' for cash-dripping hipsters, opportunity seeking entrepreneurs, profit-hungry developers and those keen to leech off the cultural cache of Brixton to further their own selfish financial ends. Etc etc.


----------



## Mr Retro (Oct 8, 2018)

Angellic said:


> What do, or maybe did, people find most appealing about living in Brixton?


I suspect everybody will have a different answer. It depends when people moved and what their needs were at the time based on budget. Brixton appealed to us in early 2001 because it had relatively cheap rent and good transport links to centre of London, brilliant market and because it wasn’t Clapham where we had lived for 6 months and hated.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 8, 2018)

Angellic said:


> What do, or maybe did, people find most appealing about living in Brixton?


 Apart from the transport and the streets of nice old houses, it was the way no gave a fuck in a tolerant sort of way. The area had a gay history - Railton rd, Gay Faeries and queer stuff at the Ritzy Fridge and Substation, and Pride was still held in Brockwell park. That there was a lot of creative types around here - writers/musicians/ designers etc - that helped too.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 8, 2018)

editor said:


> Sense of community. The feeling that everyone was welcome and when people moved to Brixton they generally wanted _to become part of it_. Living somewhere that that wasn't being divided up on class and money lines. Living somewhere that wasn't being repackaged and sold as a 'destination' for cash-dripping hipsters, opportunity seeking entrepreneurs, profit-hungry developers and those keen to leech off the cultural cache of Brixton to further their own selfish financial ends. Etc etc.


 Really? wasn't it because you could get a hard-to-rent-flat here?  surely the whole of London was always being 'being divided up on class and money lines'. Depending when you moved here Brixton, it used to be a cheaper zone 2 area, with a tube - that people could afford.


----------



## molpol (Oct 8, 2018)

editor said:


> "Also, we love living in Brixton. It’s diverse, vibrant and busy"
> 
> Always vibrant. Until the incomers with young children/very important jobs start complaining that the aforementioned vibrancy is impacting on their crucial lifestyle choices so they try to get the local vibrancy turned down to a level that suits them personally.



As one of those incomers (in 2008) with small children (as of 2016), I love Brixton for its spirit, complexity, and community vibe while still being in the thick of the city. As a lifelong Londoner, I wanted to be in a place that felt like real people, of all sorts, lived there (and that I could make work on a charity salary. Things I've never loved, children or no: anti-social arses of any class who think that booming bass music in areas of high density housing at 1am and heavy drug/alcohol use in shared spaces doth a community make (which isn't a uniquely Brixton characteristic either of course).

Brixton has never been just one thing, I don't love it when people pretend that it ever was. There's been young people, families, blue and white collar workers, and hedonists here for as long as it's been around (approx 1820 after the bridges at this end of Thames opened) so we've all had to muddle along together this far, and that means everyone making compromises. I like a place that at least tries to do that, and Brixton manages better than most.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2018)

molpol said:


> Brixton has never been just one thing, I don't love it when people pretend that it ever was.


Of course. But it's impossible to ignore the fact that there has been an immense demographic shift in the past 10-15 years that has fundamentally changed the character of the place, and made it less inclusive on account of soaring rents and rates.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Really? wasn't it because you could get a hard-to-rent-flat here?  surely the whole of London was always being 'being divided up on class and money lines'. Depending when you moved here Brixton was a cheaper zone 2 area, with a tube - that people could afford.


I came because I fucking loved the place (for the reasons stated) and was offered an affordable place in a friend's flat.


----------



## organicpanda (Oct 8, 2018)

Angellic said:


> What do, or maybe did, people find most appealing about living in Brixton?


I came to Brixton in the mid '80's knowing a few people in the squats and having a great time where it felt that it didn't matter where you came from but what type of person you were - non-racist and non-homophobic where important to me having seen too much of it elsewhere. The Albert was the first pub in Brixton I frequented and felt so at home there (the fact I probably spent more time there than at home might have something to do with it), I loved the music scene and the art scene, but the thing that most attracted me was the feeling that everyone was an outsider and this was our place and no twat was going to take that from us - how wrong I was.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2018)

Still seems strange that they're allowed to have this green monstrosity near-permanently up every day.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2018)

organicpanda said:


> I came to Brixton in the mid '80's knowing a few people in the squats and having a great time where it felt that it didn't matter where you came from but what type of person you were - non-racist and non-homophobic where important to me having seen too much of it elsewhere. The Albert was the first pub in Brixton I frequented and felt so at home there (the fact I probably spent more time there than at home might have something to do with it), I loved the music scene and the art scene, but the thing that most attracted me was the feeling that everyone was an outsider and this was our place and no twat was going to take that from us - how wrong I was.


When I arrived in Brixton I quickly got to know a large chunk of the community, many of whom were living in the squats opposite and in Railton Road. It was that kind of pub and if you hung around there for long enough it was easy to be invited to all the gigs, parties and events happening around town.

Contrast that with now where I don't think I've met a single person who moved into Clifton Mansions and Rushcroft Road since they've been turned into swishy upmarket flats, and it's well documented how some new arrivals have gone to some length to try and close down long established venues in the area.  The only person I ever met from Brixton Square was one who was complaining about the ugliness of the Barrier Block and wishing it would be demolished to make his view better.  

Remember when the Albert used to stay open till 3am?


----------



## madolesance (Oct 8, 2018)

editor said:


> Still seems strange that they're allowed to have this green monstrosity near-permanently up every day.
> 
> View attachment 149204



I guess it’s there because they pay to be there. Just like the previous night markets have probably paid to be there. 
I’d much rather have what looks like some independent traders in the space than some folks punting ice cold nasty larger to idiots paying to access some shitty ice bar.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2018)

madolesance said:


> I guess it’s there because they pay to be there. Just like the previous night markets have probably paid to be there.
> I’d much rather have what looks like some independent traders in the space than some folks punting ice cold nasty larger to idiots paying to access some shitty ice bar.


I would have liked an affordable cafe/snack bar run by locals - in fact I'm pretty sure something that was in the original plans - and something that has decent veggie/vegan choices too.  The Brixton Pound cafe would be a good choice, given their credentials on stopping food going to waste.

*Yes, I know. Never going to happen.


----------



## madolesance (Oct 8, 2018)

editor said:


> I would have liked an affordable cafe/snack bar run by locals - in fact I'm pretty sure something that was in the original plans - and something that has decent veggie/vegan choices too.  The Brixton Pound cafe would be a good choice, given their credentials on stopping food going to waste.
> 
> *Yes, I know. Never going to happen.



Market forces will always dictate. These folks look independent and may possibly be local. Has anyone enquired? 

Bet they could offer up some veg/ vegan options if asked.

They always look busy most of the time so most be doing something  right. Better than some overly branded chain using the space. You know the ones that can completely alienate the local community.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 8, 2018)

organicpanda said:


> I came to Brixton in the mid '80's knowing a few people in the squats and having a great time where it felt that it didn't matter where you came from but what type of person you were - non-racist and non-homophobic where important to me having seen too much of it elsewhere. The Albert was the first pub in Brixton I frequented and felt so at home there (the fact I probably spent more time there than at home might have something to do with it), I loved the music scene and the art scene, but the thing that most attracted me was the feeling that everyone was an outsider and this was our place and no twat was going to take that from us - how wrong I was.


The Albert was very inclusive back in the 80s. I thought Pat hated us all. But hated us all equally. She treated us all fairly - she was very even handed and tolerant anyone who behaved ok in her pub.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 8, 2018)

editor said:


> Of course. But it's impossible to ignore the fact that there has been an immense demographic shift in the past 10-15 years that has fundamentally changed the character of the place, and made it less inclusive on account of soaring rents and rates.



As attitudes to change keep coming up on threads here, withth the position that London has always been like this, so shut up complaining I've started to read more.

The demographic shift has been ignored. Unless its to say that one is partly responsible for it by living in Brixton when it wasn't popular.

I've been reading Unequal City about London.

Its an even handed account of the demographic change. With references to other views. Such as Marxist geography.

One thing the book points out is that these changes to London weren't inevitable. Market forces aren't just the way things are. Its political decisions plus changes to how global capitalism works. 

These have affected all towns and cities in this country. Take my town Plymouth. After Thatcher and loss of jobs in industry/ dockyard child poverty is now 40% of children in part of Plymouth I grew up in.

Coldharbour ward is an area of high deprivation.

Central London had a large working class population. With changes in technology ( docklands) and movement of industry to cheaper workforce abroad this working class population are now what academic geographers call "surplus population".

With Thatcher London became a financial centre for the world.

Decaying industrial areas, inner city of London became inviting prospect for developers.

A case is the Docklands. With the demise of the docks local community groups developed plans to regenerate the area with industry and social/ private housing. When Tories replaced Labour this was set aside and they set up unelected quango to redevelop the area. The result we can see now.

This "gentrification" wasn't inevitable. It was government decisions plus private enterprise that rebuilt the Docklands in one particular way.

London isn't just about a wishy washy diversity that one should just accept.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> The Albert was very inclusive back in the 80s. I thought Pat hated us all. But hated us all equally. She treated us all fairly - she was very even handed and tolerant anyone who behaved ok in her pub.


She was a unique character. I remember once where she came over with a bottle of champagne for me after I'd be on TV with some campaign stuff. Did you go to her funeral? There was a huge turnout with an incredibly diverse mix of people.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

Tonight: News Club discusses the increase in homelessness, Brixton Library tonight, 6pm, Tues 9th Oct


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## Angellic (Oct 9, 2018)

State Visit of King Willem-Alexander and Queen Maxima of the Netherlands
24th October, 2018
The King and Queen will then travel to a London community project Pop Brixton. Housed in shipping containers, Pop Brixton has converted disused land in the area into a creative space for local, independent businesses and social enterprises.


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## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

Angellic said:


> State Visit of King Willem-Alexander and Queen Maxima of the Netherlands
> 24th October, 2018
> The King and Queen will then travel to a London community project Pop Brixton. Housed in shipping containers, Pop Brixton has converted disused land in the area into a creative space for local, independent businesses and social enterprises.


Right here, with all the brown-nosed press quotes 

Another Royal visit for the loss making Pop Brixton as King and Queen of the Netherlands set to visit shipping containers


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

I'm starting a new free live music night at the Effra Social this Friday. The band are great - all are invited!

Brilliant hip hop with The Scribes at the Effra Social, Fri 12th October – free entry


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## friendofdorothy (Oct 9, 2018)

editor said:


> She was a unique character. I remember once where she came over with a bottle of champagne for me after I'd be on TV with some campaign stuff. Did you go to her funeral? There was a huge turnout with an incredibly diverse mix of people.


 Surprised she stocked champagne.   She was well respected and I remember her tough rule at the Albert very fondly.  She was very hard but fair.   No I didn't go to her funeral - I didn't know her personally.

30+ years ago, or even 20 years ago, I remember the Albert as the only straight pub in south london where I felt vaguely safe meeting a girlfriend, or going meeting mates before a queer night out at a club. I wouldn't say we were welcomed, but we were tolerated along with all the other odds and sods. I don't remember feeling ok in any other Brixton Pubs.


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## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Surprised she stocked champagne.   She was well respected and I remember her tough rule at the Albert very fondly.  She was very hard but fair.   No I didn't go to her funeral - I didn't know her personally.
> 
> 30+ years ago, or even 20 years ago, I remember the Albert as the only straight pub in south london where I felt vaguely safe meeting a girlfriend, or going meeting mates before a queer night out at a club. I wouldn't say we were welcomed, but we were tolerated along with all the other odds and sods. I don't remember feeling ok in any other Brixton Pubs.


The Albert was a big part of why I wanted to live in Brixton. I visited twice before I moved in and loved the wild and accepting mix of punks, activists, artists, musicians, old school Irish, displaced types and folks of all sexualities that made me feel instantly at home. 

Pat's firm but fair running of the pub was the stuff of legend. She was a like a Mum to some of the pub's more lost characters.


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## shakespearegirl (Oct 9, 2018)

I remember Pat being a fierce but fair landlady. It was certainly her domain and if you fucked her off you were out. Fair enough. She must have seen some sights in her time. 
There was definitely a very caring side to her. One of my friends went through a harrowing divorce and fell into a pretty bad state for a while. She took him aside one night and gave him a supportive but get your shite together lecture, no excuses, stop feeling sorry for yourself. Made a big difference and got through to him when non of us could.


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## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> I remember Pat being a fierce but fair landlady. It was certainly her domain and if you fucked her off you were out. Fair enough. She must have seen some sights in her time.
> There was definitely a very caring side to her. One of my friends went through a harrowing divorce and fell into a pretty bad state for a while. She took him aside one night and gave him a supportive but get your shite together lecture, no excuses, stop feeling sorry for yourself. Made a big difference and got through to him when non of us could.


I liked her instant bans. Caught doing drugs in the toilet? That's a five week ban! She'd always remember when they ran out too, so if the perp tried to sneak in before the ban was up, they'd be booted straight back out again.


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## Gramsci (Oct 9, 2018)

The Albert was my regular for many years. When I first went there it was almost empty. The bar was in the centre. Pat had a hard life. When I first used it her husband ran it. He was alcoholic. I don't know what happened to him. She gradually took over.

Then somehow the Albert got really full. It was all the squatters and short life. Plus the local Bikers/ Hell's Angels. A very mixed crowd. I never knew what she thought of this. She was a women of few words. I got the feeling she liked it. She was old school Irish landlady. The pub was her life.

Unlike some establishments Albert was no nonsense boozer. I always liked Pat. I was one of the regulars who got invited for the lock ins.

And barring people. She never forgot a face. Come back a year later. I'm not serving you. I actually saw this happen. Everyone respected her. And unlike some places regulars would back her up if necessary. A well run pub. And unlike now no security people. She did it on respect for her. Sadly missing these days. Where hiring security replaces this.

I went to her funeral up on Brixton hill in the Catholic church. It was packed. All of us atheists/ agnostiics.

And she ran this pub when Brixton wasn't an easy area.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 9, 2018)

Back then there was those who were regulars at the Railway and those ( me ) who used the Albert. Distinct groups.


----------



## colacubes (Oct 9, 2018)

editor said:


> I liked her instant bans. Caught doing drugs in the toilet? That's a five week ban! She'd always remember when they ran out too, so if the perp tried to sneak in before the ban was up, they'd be booted straight back out again.



This is true. I know someone who told me that he was banned for a fortnight for pinching a girls bum who was pissed off with it (frankly refreshing in these days ). He lost track of the days and went back in a day early and Pat kicked him out  However he was welcomed back the following day.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> And she ran this pub when Brixton wasn't an easy area.


When the Atlantic got closed down and some of their dodgier patrons tried to move into the Albert, she'd be at the door keeping the wrong 'uns at bay and she would never back down, even when up against massive geezers.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Back then there was those who were regulars at the Railway and those ( me ) who used the Albert. Distinct groups.


I wasn't a regular at the Albert but went often enough to get a battering from Pat's umbrella for smuggling cans of Pils in, she threw me out but didn't hold it against me when I returned.I used the Coach and Horses and the Railway often but my regular was the New Queens Head .


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 9, 2018)

editor said:


> I liked her instant bans. Caught doing drugs in the toilet? That's a five week ban! She'd always remember when they ran out too, so if the perp tried to sneak in before the ban was up, they'd be booted straight back out again.



 she booted me out about ten times....once because I got into quite a brawl...mostly for drugs....but she did always let me back


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Back then there was those who were regulars at the Railway and those ( me ) who used the Albert. Distinct groups.



I drank in both


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## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I drank in both


Me too, although I went to the Queens more than Railway.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

Caption competition?


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## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

Have to say I fucking hate this bullshit on the bridge.


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## T & P (Oct 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Back then there was those who were regulars at the Railway and those ( me ) who used the Albert. Distinct groups.


I only started going regularly to The Railway about 6-8 years ago, but before then I would still pop in occasionally. IME I don’t think the clientele has changed too much, though the demographic is undoubtedly a bit different nowadays.

Perhaps on Sundays it’s probably the most  different since the previously bare outdoor bit was transformed into the (really nice IMO) garden we have today. A lot of young families/ groups of 30-somethings who would have probably not been regulars before the refurb.

A friend used to go about twenty years ago and says the place could be rather rough then!

How long have you been going? Have you seen a pronounced change yourself?


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

T & P said:


> I only started going regularly to The Railway about 6-8 years ago, but before then I would still pop in occasionally. IME I don’t think the clientele has changed too much, though the demographic is undoubtedly a bit different nowadays.


We're talking about Brady's which closed a long time ago, not the Railway in Tulse Hill!  

It's where Wahaca is now

Thurs Jan 24th 10am – come and show your support for keeping Brixton Bradys pub as a community resource
History of Bradys Bar/ Railway Hotel, Atlantic Road, Brixton, London SW9


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## T & P (Oct 9, 2018)

editor said:


> We're talking about Brady's which closed a long time ago, not the Railway in Tulse Hill!
> 
> It's where Wahaca is now
> 
> ...


 ah of course- my bad.

By the time I moved to the area I believe it was closed or aborto. Never got to experience it but but judging by the many, many posters who have lamented its demise and talked fondly of it in here over the years, it certainly sounds legendary.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

T & P said:


> ah of course- my bad.
> 
> By the time I moved to the area I believe it was closed or aborto. Never got to experience it but but judging by the many, many posters who have lamented its demise and talked fondly of it in here over the years, it certainly sounds legendary.


They used to have a really good backroom which put on bands like Alabama 3. The front bars were chaotic!  It was squatted for a while after it was closed, and operated as a social centre/bar, with film shows and performance. It was a real community asset and very nearly reopened as one until Lambeth flogged it off to offshore property developers for a few extra quid.


----------



## Smick (Oct 10, 2018)

I’ve read on Facebook that Andy from the barber at the bottom of Tulse Hill / Water Lane has died at the age of 74. RIP. 

It was almost like a comedy getting your hair cut by him. He reminded me of the barber in the Armando Ianucci shows. Very happy man, but some wild opinions.


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## brixtonblade (Oct 10, 2018)

Smick said:


> I’ve read on Facebook that Andy from the barber at the bottom of Tulse Hill / Water Lane has died at the age of 74. RIP.
> 
> It was almost like a comedy getting your hair cut by him. He reminded me of the barber in the Armando Ianucci shows. Very happy man, but some wild opinions.


Oh that's sad


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 10, 2018)

Used to be one of the go to barbers for a proper flat top...

R.I.P Andy


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## jimbarkanoodle (Oct 10, 2018)

editor said:


> I liked her instant bans. Caught doing drugs in the toilet? That's a five week ban!



seems a bit harsh...but then i could imagine back then if a boozer in central Brixton got the reputation for being too tolerant on drug taking things could of gone down hill quite rapidly.


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## Casaubon (Oct 10, 2018)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> seems a bit harsh...but then i could imagine back then if a boozer in central Brixton got the reputation for being too tolerant on drug taking things could of gone down hill quite rapidly.



As I’ve mentioned here before, Pat once barred her son Chris for being in possession of a spliff.
She was, necessarily, a tough woman (a dragon, at times), but there are plenty of people who'll testify to her heart of gold.

Here’s  Chris (4th from left) at the Kent Custom Show in the summer of ’89, with some Albert regulars.



Does anyone know where Chris is these days?


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## nick (Oct 10, 2018)

Sad to hear of Andy - used to get flat tops there in the early 80s when up visiting my sister who lived above the launderette on the corner of Vining St / Atlantic road.
Unlike other barbers he would refuse to use those spirit level/ large comb things and would insist of doing it by eye.
Can't say I've used haircut sir? for 20+ years - but I'm glad to see it still there when going past on the bus


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 10, 2018)

nick said:


> Sad to hear of Andy - used to get flat tops there in the early 80s when up visiting my sister who lived above the launderette on the corner of Vining St / Atlantic road.
> Unlike other barbers he would refuse to use those spirit level/ large comb things and would insist of doing it by eye.
> Can't say I've used haircut sir? for 20+ years - but I'm glad to see it still there when going past on the bus



His Son and Daughter cut hair there now.

Andy was known as the king of the flat tops. I'm sure Face Magazine did an article on him back in the 80s....

A Brixton Buzz piece waiting to be written there...


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## twistedAM (Oct 10, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Back then there was those who were regulars at the Railway and those ( me ) who used the Albert. Distinct groups.



I was very mostly a Railway type and one night I went into the Albert and Pat instructed one of the bar staff to follow me in to the toilets. I had known the guy before he started at the Albert so asked him what he was doing and he said Pat suspected me of doing drugs. Like why would I have left Brady's to do drugs???

Whenever I went in the Albert during the day sometimes she really was quite different - asking if I'd been back to Ireland and stuff like that. She was great!


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## editor (Oct 10, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> His Son and Daughter cut hair there now.
> 
> Andy was known as the king of the flat tops. I'm sure Face Magazine did an article on him back in the 80s....
> 
> A Brixton Buzz piece waiting to be written there...


I've never used a barber since I arrived in Brixton so didn't know him, but if anyone wants to write a piece, I'd be happy to publish it!


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 10, 2018)

editor said:


> I've never used a barber since I arrived in Brixton so didn't know him, but if anyone wants to write a piece, I'd be happy to publish it!



I'd quite like to just see that Face Article in full...I know there are bits of it framed in the Barber shop


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## friendofdorothy (Oct 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Have to say I fucking hate this bullshit on the bridge.
> 
> View attachment 149305


 Now it seems to say
'AY IN PEACE

whats it short for - away? say? stay?  Is that even a saying?


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## friendofdorothy (Oct 10, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> The Albert was my regular for many years. When I first went there it was almost empty. The bar was in the centre. Pat had a hard life. When I first used it her husband ran it. He was alcoholic. I don't know what happened to him. She gradually took over.
> 
> Then somehow the Albert got really full. It was all the squatters and short life. Plus the local Bikers/ Hell's Angels. A very mixed crowd. I never knew what she thought of this. She was a women of few words. I got the feeling she liked it. She was old school Irish landlady. The pub was her life.
> 
> ...


 Saw Pat literally sweeping prostitutes off the front of the Albert with a broom one morning.

She single handedly threw a a big geezer out one quiet lunch time when I was there - her 5 foot nothing and him 6ft 6 - she got hold of him by the collar and marched him from the back of the pub, to out the front door. He apologised to her all the way out. It was a joy to see.


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Now it seems to say
> 'AY IN PEACE
> 
> whats it short for - away? say? stay?  Is that even a saying?


It's going to say COME IN LOVE (fnarr fnarr) on one side and STAY IN PEACE on the other in bright colours. It's nearly ready to serve as a new 'Brixton icon' for Instagraming and featuring in in-flight magazines, property developers brochures etc.


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## friendofdorothy (Oct 10, 2018)

editor said:


> It's going to say COME IN LOVE (fnarr fnarr) on one side and STAY IN PEACE on the other in bright colours. It's nearly ready to serve as a new 'Brixton icon' for Instagraming and featuring in in-flight magazines, property developers brochures etc.
> 
> View attachment 149356


I like the colours.

Being northern I think that should be - Come in, love


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## friendofdorothy (Oct 10, 2018)

I think I only went to Bradys a couple of times, maybe to see a band, it was a very rough place. Back then very few straight pubs were safe places for lesbians.  

I seem to recall it had sawdust on the floor - or is that my memory playing tricks?


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## T & P (Oct 10, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I like the colours.
> 
> Being northern I think that should be - Come in, love


I'm sure painting in a comma would neither require being talented at painting/graffittng nor not much time to execute it. Just saying, like 

PS But it would require trespassing on a railway line, or alternatively borrowing a cherrypicker.


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 10, 2018)

I met my Son's mum in Bradys...watching The Sexed Up Lambeth Boys....

I have mixed feelings about this....ha ha


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## sealion (Oct 10, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I seem to recall it had sawdust on the floor - or is that my memory playing tricks?


It could well have been the residue from tables and chairs  very rough place at one time!


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## Jangleballix (Oct 10, 2018)

sealion said:


> very rough place at one time!


One time 82-83 I walked past the side and two blokes were tussling over an AK47 in the street.
I blithely presumed it was a replica and walked on regardless.
Say what you like about gentrification this is unlikely to happen outside Wahaca.


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2018)

Jangleballix said:


> One time 82-83 I walked past the side and two blokes were tussling over an AK47 in the street.
> I blithely presumed it was a replica and walked on regardless.
> Say what you like about gentrification this is unlikely to happen outside Wahaca.


Now it's just city boys, entrepreneurs and gammons in pink shirts shouting and puking up in the street after too many pulled pork burgers and cocktails.


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## sealion (Oct 10, 2018)

Jangleballix said:


> Say what you like about gentrification this is unlikely to happen outside Wahaca.


----------



## sealion (Oct 10, 2018)

If Brixton is now seen and sold as edgy, i wonder what the lifestyle mags/ estate agents would have made of it 20 years ago.


----------



## David Clapson (Oct 10, 2018)

Angellic said:


> What do, or maybe did, people find most appealing about living in Brixton?


Strangers talk to each other. Doesn't happen anywhere else in south east england.


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## discobastard (Oct 11, 2018)

David Clapson said:


> Strangers talk to each other. Doesn't happen anywhere else in south east england.


I fear that is a *slight* exaggeration.  

ETA: Except in the context of people asking you for money.


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2018)

sealion said:


> If Brixton is now seen and sold as edgy, i wonder what the lifestyle mags/ estate agents would have made of it 20 years ago.


They didn't gush about it then because they were too shit-scared to come down. Which was great for us locals.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 11, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Now it seems to say
> 'AY IN PEACE
> 
> whats it short for - away? say? stay?  Is that even a saying?


See they've added the ST now.


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## David Clapson (Oct 11, 2018)

editor said:


> They didn't gush about it then because they were too shit-scared to come down. Which was great for us locals.


The only visitors we had were journalists wanting a crime story. There was one article which described Coldharbour Lane and Somerleyton Rd as a terrifying no-go area, drugs den etc. There was a hole in the window of Granada Cars and the article said it was a bullet hole. Total bollocks. Just a flat lie. That article taught me a lot about journalism.


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## David Clapson (Oct 11, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I fear that is a *slight* exaggeration.



In my experience it's very accurate! It's why I moved here from Fulham. If you doubt it, maybe that's because you don't talk to many strangers?


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## discobastard (Oct 11, 2018)

David Clapson said:


> In my experience it's very accurate! It's why I moved here from Fulham. If you doubt it, maybe that's because you don't talk to many strangers?


I talk to plenty! But not just in Brixton, that was my point.


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## Gramsci (Oct 11, 2018)

Been reading the Resolve Collective who designed the new artwork on the Brixton bridge.



> As an approach to exploring text, ‘Come In Love/Stay In Peace’ constitute the provisional text for this project. It is a play on the common saying ‘Come in Peace’, coalescing the action of coming and going in Brixton, by playfully interpreting both sides and directions of movement as the ultimate act of approach. Undertones of ‘love’, ‘neighborliness’, ‘homecoming’ and ‘peace’ act as a potent reminder of Brixton as more than an area, but a community




https://www.resolvecollective.com/brixton-bridge/5lbu77qnkh4cn7m30bztayvstsso54

Its all well meaning. And Resolve Collective sound interesting practice. Putting together architectural practise/Urban design with meaningful interventions in public space.

I cant help but feel this one whilst incorporating Brixton history and heritage does not represent the fact that change is altering Brixton entirely.

The Afro Carribbean community who made there homes here from Windrush are being pushed out. For example.

If the bridge design is about community and neighbourness in London these are relatively short lived as economic changes push one community out for another.

This the bridge doesnt represent.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 11, 2018)

https://www.resolvecollective.com/brixton-bridge/z3ivmf2njlfoyfmpkrjl3a5g0uuazd

Something Resolve Collective could have done with the Brixton bridge is celebrate how the community of the time fought racist police. The 81 riot. Or Uprising as some call it.

I was there at the time. There was general feeling amongst Afro Carribbean people that the Met got a well deserved kicking.

This of course would never get anywhere with a Council sanctioned competition.

I bring this up as imo sense of community isn't about just touchy feely "Peace". The phrases that Resolve Collective use. Sense of community is also built on violence and conflict. I'm saying this as someone who entered adult life with election of Margaret Thatcher and the eighties.


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## mx wcfc (Oct 11, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I'd quite like to just see that Face Article in full...I know there are bits of it framed in the Barber shop


I have issues 1-99 of The Face.  If you could give me an approx date, I could have a look and scan it.  Might take a while to go through all of them.


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## discobastard (Oct 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> As an approach to exploring text, ‘Come In Love/Stay In Peace’ constitute the provisional text for this project. It is a play on the common saying ‘Come in Peace’, coalescing the action of coming and going in Brixton, by playfully interpreting both sides and directions of movement as the ultimate act of approach. Undertones of ‘love’, ‘neighborliness’, ‘homecoming’ and ‘peace’ act as a potent reminder of Brixton as more than an area, but a community



I reckon that's a prime candidate for Pseud's Corner in Private Eye.

ETA: Gramsci didn't say that, but it's the quote he quoted, as it were.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 11, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I reckon that's a prime candidate for Pseud's Corner in Private Eye.
> 
> ETA: Gramsci didn't say that, but it's the quote he quoted, as it were.



(I've chucked out my last copy of Private Eye - if anybody can send me the email to submit this to them I shall gladly do so - it's fucking nonsense)


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 11, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I reckon that's a prime candidate for Pseud's Corner in Private Eye.
> 
> ETA: Gramsci didn't say that, but it's the quote he quoted, as it were.



I've looked at Resolve Collective website and think they have all the right intentions. I also think as a young "collective" they are on the right track. I met young people like this. What they are up against is ( in Lambeth) the revolting centre ground establishment. So no I wouldn't say they are candidate for Private Eye. 

Tbh I really don't know what progressive minded young people in architecture/ urban design are supposed to do now.

The real scum are our New Labour Cllrs. Who set up these competitions to decorate our urban space. With a touchy feely middle ground multiculturalism. That fits in with the New Labour project.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I've looked at Resolve Collective website and think they have all the right intentions. I also think as a young "collective" they are on the right track. I met young people like this. What they are up against is ( in Lambeth) the revolting centre ground establishment. So no I wouldn't say they are candidate for Private Eye.
> 
> Tbh I really don't know what progressive minded young people in architecture/ urban design are supposed to do now.
> 
> The real scum are our New Labour Cllrs. Who set up these competitions to decorate our urban space. With a touchy feely middle ground multiculturalism. That fits in with the New Labour project.



That's a very fair post Gramsci.

What they've written is nonsense, but it is expected in the current climate, where their role is to sell things to those that can create wealth in a area (however misguided that may be, and whether it is economically misguided in the short or long term). And there are differences in very short distances (Tulse Hill/West Norwood where I live is very different to Brixton).

It's still worthy of Pseud's Corner, no matter what their intention, but I can understand why it was written in the first place.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> The real scum are our New Labour Cllrs. Who set up these competitions to decorate our urban space. With a touchy feely middle ground multiculturalism. That fits in with the New Labour project.



That I agree with, but I doubt they are as organised as to follow a specific ideology.  It's just following the money (which is much easier than ideology).


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## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> https://www.resolvecollective.com/brixton-bridge/z3ivmf2njlfoyfmpkrjl3a5g0uuazd
> 
> Something Resolve Collective could have done with the Brixton bridge is celebrate how the community of the time fought racist police. The 81 riot. Or Uprising as some call it.
> 
> ...


It's just artwank bullshit by nicely educated types. 



> Style and Pattan, as a phrase captures the vibrations of Brixton and its diverse community. It is visible and expressed through language, fashion, art, activism, food, music – all key aspects central at the core of the community all moving to the same rhythm. Our approach and design is fueling by these core aspects as we aim to utilizes the dichotomy of bold, monochromatic typeface against bright, animated polychromatic patterning, in order to convey a memorable written message whilst evoking the visual themes of Brixton’s iconic heritage through geometric motifs.
> 
> The cross-hatch pattern was inspired by our awareness of the structural and decorative themes that accentuate Brixton’s built environment. From tiling and joinery found in 19th and 20th century buildings in the area to the facade of the historic Atlantic Bakeries on Atlantic Road. Simultaneously, it pays clear homage to African, Caribbean and South American vexillology through bold geometric pattern and a colour pallette reflective of the surrounding community.
> 
> As an approach to exploring text, ‘Come In Love/Stay In Peace’ constitute the provisional text for this project. It is a play on the common saying ‘Come in Peace’, coalescing the action of coming and going in Brixton, by playfully interpreting both sides and directions of movement as the ultimate act of approach. Undertones of ‘love’, ‘neighborliness’, ‘homecoming’ and ‘peace’ act as a potent reminder of Brixton as more than an area, but a community


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 12, 2018)

It will be covered in multicoloured tags in a week anyway.


----------



## alcopop (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> It's just artwank bullshit by nicely educated types.


What does “nicely educated” mean?


----------



## eyeroll (Oct 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> What does “nicely educated” mean?



Seriously? How dare someone complete an architecture degree?  

The lead designer behind this bridge is an artist and architect called Farouk Agoro who collaborated with Akil from the Resolve Collective. Maybe, for a change, you could show some love for the young black creatives from Brixton who have been given the opportunity to paint a huge love letter to their area? Yes they had to collaborate with the shitshow that is Lambeth Council but at the end of the day they're flying their colours proudly - red, gold and green. For the soundsystems, for the reggae vendors, for the Rastas, for the Reparations March that walks under it every year, for the culture that is so painfully being whitewashed every day in Brixton.


----------



## alcopop (Oct 12, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> Seriously? How dare someone complete an architecture degree?
> 
> The lead designer behind this bridge is an artist and architect called Farouk Agoro who collaborated with Akil from the Resolve Collective. Maybe, for a change, you could show some love for the young black creatives from Brixton who have been given the opportunity to paint a huge love letter to their area? Yes they had to collaborate with the shitshow that is Lambeth Council but at the end of the day they're flying their colours proudly - red, gold and green. For the soundsystems, for the reggae vendors, for the Rastas, for the Reparations March that walks under it every year, for the culture that is so painfully being whitewashed every day in Brixton.


I couldn’t agree more


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> Seriously? How dare someone complete an architecture degree?
> 
> The lead designer behind this bridge is an artist and architect called Farouk Agoro who collaborated with Akil from the Resolve Collective. Maybe, for a change, you could show some love for the young black creatives from Brixton who have been given the opportunity to paint a huge love letter to their area? Yes they had to collaborate with the shitshow that is Lambeth Council but at the end of the day they're flying their colours proudly - red, gold and green. For the soundsystems, for the reggae vendors, for the Rastas, for the Reparations March that walks under it every year, for the culture that is so painfully being whitewashed every day in Brixton.


it'd better be sturdy, and not drop on the reparations demonstration


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> What does “nicely educated” mean?


Someone with a nice degree. Most of the people on my estate don't have one, although I would have preferred to have them involved in creating something on that bridge.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> Seriously? How dare someone complete an architecture degree?
> 
> The lead designer behind this bridge is an artist and architect called Farouk Agoro who collaborated with Akil from the Resolve Collective. Maybe, for a change, you could show some love for the young black creatives from Brixton who have been given the opportunity to paint a huge love letter to their area? Yes they had to collaborate with the shitshow that is Lambeth Council but at the end of the day they're flying their colours proudly - red, gold and green. For the soundsystems, for the reggae vendors, for the Rastas, for the Reparations March that walks under it every year, for the culture that is so painfully being whitewashed every day in Brixton.


Would you be one of the aforementioned architects?

If so, please explain how that outpouring of guff about "_playfully interpreting both sides and directions of movement as the ultimate act of approach. Undertones of ‘love’, ‘neighborliness’, ‘homecoming’ and ‘peace’ act as a potent reminder of Brixton as more than an area, but a community_" relates to the everyday struggles of people of all colours living in one of the most deprived areas of London?

PS If you are the architect, don't take this personally. If you put up loud public art, you can can't complain if locals voice loud opinions about it! It's their town too and they;re just as proud of it. Maybe even more so.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

Pics from Weds night 






















Brixton jam session at the Queens Head – in photos


----------



## alcopop (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Someone with a nice degree. Most of the people on my estate don't have one, although I would have preferred to have them involved in creating something on that bridge.


What’s a “nice” degree


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> What’s a “nice” degree


Around my estate: _any_ degree.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> What’s a “nice” degree


2.2 will do


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> 2.2 will do


Here's a question more interesting than anything alcopop will ever ask: Why are 2:2s called Desmonds?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Here's a question more interesting than anything alcopop will ever ask: Why are 2:2s called Desmonds?


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 149488


Surely


----------



## fishfinger (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Surely


That's a 4 by tutu.


----------



## eyeroll (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Would you be one of the aforementioned architects?
> 
> If so, please explain how that outpouring of guff about "_playfully interpreting both sides and directions of movement as the ultimate act of approach. Undertones of ‘love’, ‘neighborliness’, ‘homecoming’ and ‘peace’ act as a potent reminder of Brixton as more than an area, but a community_" relates to the everyday struggles of people of all colours living in one of the most deprived areas of London?
> 
> PS If you are the architect, don't take this personally. If you put up loud public art, you can can't complain if locals voice loud opinions about it! It's their town too and they;re just as proud of it. Maybe even more so.



Haha no I'm not! I do know Farouk very well though. He's very aware of the loud opinions of his fellow locals - I've been calming his anxieties this whole week while the final lettering went up! It's all good, I'm just defensive on his behalf 

I don't know Akil or the Resolve Collective though so I can't speak for the guff they have on their website but sometimes guff is what it takes to get through commissions & competitions unfortunately.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> Haha no I'm not! I do know Farouk very well though. He's very aware of the loud opinions of his fellow locals - I've been calming his anxieties this whole week while the final lettering went up! It's all good, I'm just defensive on his behalf
> 
> I don't know Akil or the Resolve Collective though so I can't speak for the guff they have on their website but sometimes guff is what it takes to get through commissions & competitions unfortunately.


I just wish that there had been more community involvement in this design - less architects and more locals. It's a bold and loud design, so it's going to get bold and loud criticism. I don't like it myself. It just seems like another forced 'icon' to help turn Brixton into a Camden-style tourist trap.


----------



## eyeroll (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I just wish that there had been more community involvement in this design - less architects and more locals. It's a bold and loud design, so it's going to get bold and loud criticism. I don't like it myself. It just seems like another forced 'icon' to help turn Brixton into a Camden-style tourist trap.



I get that. Lambeth did make it a competition open to the public but didn't publicise it well at all so I'm just glad some actual locals did find out about it and win it in the end. Yeah he's a qualified architect but I feel like you may be imagining it as some lucrative profession and not the constant slog to get properly paid for a skill that most people think they can do cause they watched an episode of Grand Designs.

Possibly (definitely... haha) biased but I thought their design was the best from all the rest that were shortlisted. I don't see how it would have ever avoided being a 'forced' icon regardless of who designed it - new public art on that bridge will always attract new attention. 

Obviously not everyone is going to like it, that's cool. That's the nature of public art.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> I get that. Lambeth did make it a competition open to the public but didn't publicise it well at all so I'm just glad some actual locals did find out about it and win it in the end. Yeah he's a qualified architect but I feel like you may be imagining it as some lucrative profession and not the constant slog to get properly paid for a skill that most people think they can do cause they watched an episode of Grand Designs.
> 
> Possibly (definitely... haha) biased but I thought their design was the best from all the rest that were shortlisted. I don't see how it would have ever avoided being a 'forced' icon regardless of who designed it - new public art on that bridge will always attract new attention.
> 
> Obviously not everyone is going to like it, that's cool. That's the nature of public art.


I'd suggest that the greater majority of locals had no idea the competition was going on, which is a shame given that the bridge is supposed to represent the area in some regard.


----------



## eyeroll (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I just wish that there had been more community involvement in this design - less architects and more locals. It's a bold and loud design, so it's going to get bold and loud criticism. I don't like it myself. It just seems like another forced 'icon' to help turn Brixton into a Camden-style tourist trap.



I guess they could've used the slogan: "CLAPHAM’S THAT WAY YOU 2D FLAT WHITE TEPID COLONIALIST YUPPY WANKER" but that was already taken.


----------



## eyeroll (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I'd suggest that the greater majority of locals had no idea the competition was going on, which is a shame given that the bridge is supposed to represent the area in some regard.



Agreed.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> I guess they could've used the slogan: "CLAPHAM’S THAT WAY YOU 2D FLAT WHITE TEPID COLONIALIST YUPPY WANKER" but that was already taken.


Now that's a sign I could have REALLY got behind.


----------



## organicpanda (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Now that's a sign I could have REALLY got behind.


say's the person who renamed Brixton, East Clapham


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

Just spotted what looked very much like a beardy Thom Yorke walking down Coldharbour Lane. 

#celebwatch


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

organicpanda said:


> say's the person who renamed Brixton, East Clapham


Best April Fool's I'll ever do, I still get people coming up to me and asking if I've heard the news


----------



## alcopop (Oct 12, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> Haha no I'm not! I do know Farouk very well though. He's very aware of the loud opinions of his fellow locals - I've been calming his anxieties this whole week while the final lettering went up! It's all good, I'm just defensive on his behalf
> 
> I don't know Akil or the Resolve Collective though so I can't speak for the guff they have on their website but sometimes guff is what it takes to get through commissions & competitions unfortunately.



Nice reverse ferret. Well done


----------



## eyeroll (Oct 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Nice reverse ferret. Well done



Had to google 'reverse ferret'. Thanks for updating my vocabulary but not sure how it applies.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I'd suggest that the greater majority of locals had no idea the competition was going on, which is a shame given that the bridge is supposed to represent the area in some regard.





eyeroll said:


> I get that. Lambeth did make it a competition open to the public but didn't publicise it well at all so I'm just glad some actual locals did find out about it and win it in the end. Yeah he's a qualified architect but I feel like you may be imagining it as some lucrative profession and not the constant slog to get properly paid for a skill that most people think they can do cause they watched an episode of Grand Designs.
> 
> Possibly (definitely... haha) biased but I thought their design was the best from all the rest that were shortlisted. I don't see how it would have ever avoided being a 'forced' icon regardless of who designed it - new public art on that bridge will always attract new attention.
> 
> Obviously not everyone is going to like it, that's cool. That's the nature of public art.



There are some interesting points and questions here to be made and asked.

The first is around the idea that an architect is rolling in money because they have a degree and are a ‘professional’.  eyeroll makes an interesting point that it can be a real fucking slog getting work and then getting paid for that work.  Just because you have a ‘nice degree’ and a profession doesn’t mean you are rolling in it (and no, nobody actually said that but it is implied).  The same is true for lots of businesses, whether you are selling carpets, cocktails, bricks or burgers.

The second point is around people not knowing that a competition to design a local artwork is going on.  If you forget the fact that the judges may or may not be biased towards a particular type of result, how exactly do you engage the local community to take part.  I don’t know where the competition was publicised, but I suspect about 85-90% of the local population didn’t know it was going on, nor do many of them care.

But how do you get the locals who *might* have been interested engaged and involved.  I don’t know the answer to that.  Apart from a vocal minority, I suspect a huge proportion of the Brixton population pay little or no attention to any of the comms that come out of Lambeth Council.  I didn’t much care myself until I joined this board 4 or 5 years ago and started to take an interest.

Easy to say they should advertise it better, but that costs thousands of coins.  Billboards and maildrops are expensive (and quite frankly, that money might be better spent on more important things like street pissing and toilets).  They can’t spend money on everything, so the question, how do you get the ‘unheard’ local community involved – particularly when they may have more important concerns like feeding their families and paying their rent?

Genuine question, answers on a postcard please.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 12, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> Seriously? How dare someone complete an architecture degree?
> 
> The lead designer behind this bridge is an artist and architect called Farouk Agoro who collaborated with Akil from the Resolve Collective. Maybe, for a change, you could show some love for the young black creatives from Brixton who have been given the opportunity to paint a huge love letter to their area? Yes they had to collaborate with the shitshow that is Lambeth Council but at the end of the day they're flying their colours proudly - red, gold and green. For the soundsystems, for the reggae vendors, for the Rastas, for the Reparations March that walks under it every year, for the culture that is so painfully being whitewashed every day in Brixton.



I get that from looking at the Resolve Collective website. My posts here #1259 and #1263 are sympathetic but critical. The criticism isn't directly at the architects , who I said were well meaning, its the political environment they have to work in that was getting the most stick from me.

Its why I posted I would have liked to see something connected to the 81 riot / uprising. It was one of the most important events in recent Brixton history and is not commemorated anywhere. Of course that will never happen in New Labour Lambeth.

I can see the artistic reasoning behind the artwork. But imo it will be incorporated as part of the "whitewashing" of , Brixton. Come in Love Go in Peace its touchy feely multiculturalism that fits in with Pop and the Department Store.


----------



## BusLanes (Oct 12, 2018)

Anyway, the flat white is just the colonists bringing gifts back to the coloniser.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 12, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I can see the artistic reasoning behind the artwork. But imo it will be incorporated as part of the "whitewashing" of , Brixton. Come in Love Go in Peace its touchy feely multiculturalism that fits in with Pop and the Department Store.



Yeah, it's cheesy and patronising, but it's the acceptable corporate language, as considered to be edgy/hippie, creating a 'brand Brixton'.  That's what the comms people at the council are there to do.  Their job is to do that, and with so many comms and marketing people involved, any really important message will get blanded to fuck due to groupthink.  You can't blame individuals for that, they just want to keep their jobs.

If you had some truly bold people at the council you might get, I don't know, 'Windrush - never forget' - but that isn't a mass market tourist friendly message (though personally I would love something more incisive and meaningful like that).  I don't think it's about whitewashing, but that kind of culture and fucking BORING semiotics is rife in most of the corporate advertising and comms we see today - because they want to be seen to be funky but also avoid offending the least amount of people possible.  And the ones in charge of that have little choice but to toe the imaginary line.  I see it all the time in my work.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 12, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> I get that. Lambeth did make it a competition open to the public but didn't publicise it well at all so I'm just glad some actual locals did find out about it and win it in the end. Yeah he's a qualified architect but I feel like you may be imagining it as some lucrative profession and not the constant slog to get properly paid for a skill that most people think they can do cause they watched an episode of Grand Designs.
> 
> Possibly (definitely... haha) biased but I thought their design was the best from all the rest that were shortlisted. I don't see how it would have ever avoided being a 'forced' icon regardless of who designed it - new public art on that bridge will always attract new attention.
> 
> Obviously not everyone is going to like it, that's cool. That's the nature of public art.



So you are agreeing with me the way the competition was organised was to produce something that would fit in with the Nu Brixton?


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 12, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> Anyway, the flat white is just the colonists bringing gifts back to the coloniser.



Flat white is Australian invention. Is that what you mean?


----------



## discobastard (Oct 12, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> So you are agreeing with me the way the competition was organised was to produce something that would fit in with the Nu Brixton?



Of course it was.  There can't be any doubt about that.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 12, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Yeah, it's cheesy and patronising, but it's the acceptable corporate language, as considered to be edgy/hippie, creating a 'brand Brixton'.  That's what the comms people at the council are there to do.  Their job is to do that, and with so many comms and marketing people involved, any really important message will get blanded to fuck due to groupthink.  You can't blame individuals for that, they just want to keep their jobs.
> 
> If you had some truly bold people at the council you might get, I don't know, 'Windrush - never forget' - but that isn't a mass market tourist friendly message (though personally I would love something more incisive and meaningful like that).  I don't think it's about whitewashing, but that kind of culture and fucking BORING semiotics is rife in most of the corporate advertising and comms we see today - because they want to be seen to be funky but also avoid offending the least amount of people possible.  And the ones in charge of that have little choice but to toe the imaginary line.  I see it all the time in my work.



I sometimes don't know what to make of your posts. Your not disagreeing with me but somehow no one is to blame. Its unfortunate but what can one do. Is what I get from your posts.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 12, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Of course it was.  There can't be any doubt about that.



I was asking eyeroll . I don't think you speak for him/ her


----------



## discobastard (Oct 12, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I sometimes don't know what to make of your posts. Your not disagreeing with me but somehow no one is to blame. Its unfortunate but what can one do. Is what I get from your posts.



That's a  fair point Gramsci.  I am not attacking you or defending the council here.  I'm trying to be balanced, in that there is unlikley to be anybody in the council who actively wishes to fuck over the historical local population.  But they are possibly doing so.

If you want me to be clearer about it, I think the new logo on the bridge is a load of wank and they could have made a statement celebrating Windrush.  I would have loved that (just as an example off the top of my head).  I don't think anybody is anti the local population but there are systemic issues that people in those jobs have to work towards.  So the system is to blame and not the individuals (in a lot of cases anyway).

I work in the world of comms and research, and lots of these people have no idea what they're doing. In councils and corporates you have diffusion of responsibility.  Like I say, things end up getting blanded to fuck because of rules and regulations and brand guidelines.  Changing things is like turning round a supertanker.  Also, people in these roles move on and projects get shelved and forgotten about.  Which means things are messy and bland.

I'm not trolling you or suggesting that 'it's that way things are, what can you do?', but just trying to add some context to things.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 12, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I was asking eyeroll . I don't think you speak for him/ her



I don't attempt to speak for them, I was just giving my opinion.  I was agreeing with you


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2018)

discobastard said:


> The first is around the idea that an architect is rolling in money because they have a degree and are a ‘professional’.


Where did I say anyone was "rolling in money"? Nowhere, is where.  You've just fabricated that 'fact' to try and construct some made-up argument. And, boy, is it tedious. 

But the point is, compared to the majority of people living in close proximity to the bridge - and those who the design is supposed to represent in some form - any kind of degree - let alone an _architectural _degree - is seen as something that is far beyond their grasp and aspirations. It's about privilege and opportunity, and that's in precious short supply for people struggling to pay the everyday bills in Brixton.


----------



## BusLanes (Oct 13, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Flat white is Australian invention. Is that what you mean?



Well, it's argued between NZ and Australia, but yes


----------



## alex_ (Oct 13, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> Well, it's argued between NZ and Australia, but yes



Flat white supremacy ?


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2018)

Flat white wars 



> The earliest documented reference to the beverage dates back to Australia in the mid-1980s at Moors Espresso Bar in Sydney; Alan Preston added the beverage to his permanent menu in 1985.[3] Other documented references include cafes in Canberra putting up signs in 1985 saying "flat white only" during a seasonal problem with milk cows that prevented the milk froth from forming.[4][5]
> 
> However, the origins of the flat white are contentious with New Zealand also claiming its invention.[6][7] The New Zealand claim originates in Auckland, New Zealand by Derek Townsend and Darrell Ahlers of Cafe DKD, as an alternative to the Italian latte,[1][8] and a 2nd New Zealand claim originates from Wellington as a result of a "failed cappuccino" at Bar Bodega on Willis St in 1989.[6] Craig Miller, author of "Coffee Houses of Wellington 1939 to 1979", claims to have prepared a flat white in Auckland in the mid-1980s


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2018)

This was such a good night - the sort of thing the Dogstar should have been doing ages ago.












Newschool Thursdays at the Brixton Dogstar showcases up and coming singer/songwriters


----------



## phillm (Oct 13, 2018)

eyeroll said:


> Seriously? How dare someone complete an architecture degree?
> 
> The lead designer behind this bridge is an artist and architect called Farouk Agoro who collaborated with Akil from the Resolve Collective. Maybe, for a change, you could show some love for the young black creatives from Brixton who have been given the opportunity to paint a huge love letter to their area? Yes they had to collaborate with the shitshow that is Lambeth Council but at the end of the day they're flying their colours proudly - red, gold and green. For the soundsystems, for the reggae vendors, for the Rastas, for the Reparations March that walks under it every year, for the culture that is so painfully being whitewashed every day in Brixton.



As the editor succinctly put it 'artwank'. Coming  to a newly gentrified priced-out public space near you soon. It is essential that serious artwank comes with a large helping of incomprehensible word salad.

_Whether or not this was achieved, the concept of platforms like this, in a part of the city that is witnessing irreconcilable changes, are of growing importance. They are crucial interstices in an ever-growing landscape of siloed identity. Intervening spaces where we, a ‘public’ that is intersected and proliferated by so many disparate and at times paradoxical identities, can engage with one another over issues that matter, and argue, stumble and persist towards meaningful change._


Bridging communities and creating knowledge – DPU student receives UCL award for engagement project


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2018)

phillm said:


> As the editor succinctly put it 'artwank'. Coming  to a newly gentrified priced-out public space near you soon. It is essential that serious artwank comes with a large helping of incomprehensible word salad.
> 
> _Whether or not this was achieved, the concept of platforms like this, in a part of the city that is witnessing irreconcilable changes, are of growing importance. They are crucial interstices in an ever-growing landscape of siloed identity. Intervening spaces where we, a ‘public’ that is intersected and proliferated by so many disparate and at times paradoxical identities, can engage with one another over issues that matter, and argue, stumble and persist towards meaningful change._
> 
> ...


That's artwank _deluxe_!


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 13, 2018)

discobastard said:


> That's a  fair point Gramsci.  I am not attacking you or defending the council here.  I'm trying to be balanced, in that there is unlikley to be anybody in the council who actively wishes to fuck over the historical local population.  But they are possibly doing so.
> 
> If you want me to be clearer about it, I think the new logo on the bridge is a load of wank and they could have made a statement celebrating Windrush.  I would have loved that (just as an example off the top of my head).  I don't think anybody is anti the local population but there are systemic issues that people in those jobs have to work towards.  So the system is to blame and not the individuals (in a lot of cases anyway).
> 
> ...



This reads to me as saying that's the way things are and what can you do


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 14, 2018)

I was interested to see  .. 
*"London’s biggest affordable workspace now open in Brixton*

International House, formerly Lambeth Council offices by Brixton Police Station, has re-opened as London’s largest affordable workspace"

Given the apparent scale of it, I do wonder what this might mean for other sites around the town centre in that same startup/incubator game. I presume more local employment is a good thing though we don't even have a job centre now and nationally the country is effectively at full employment. Did cause me to think about the site's potential for housing - conversion costs would be high, office space isn't popular as a temp housing solution .. any thoughts?

Love Lambeth


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> I was interested to see  ..
> *"London’s biggest affordable workspace now open in Brixton*
> 
> International House, formerly Lambeth Council offices by Brixton Police Station, has re-opened as London’s largest affordable workspace"
> ...


It's got HUBS! Hooray for hubs!


----------



## alex_ (Oct 14, 2018)

editor said:


> It's got HUBS! Hooray for hubs!



But are they vibrant hubs ?


----------



## discobastard (Oct 14, 2018)

editor said:


> Where did I say anyone was "rolling in money"? Nowhere, is where.  You've just fabricated that 'fact' to try and construct some made-up argument. And, boy, is it tedious.
> 
> But the point is, compared to the majority of people living in close proximity to the bridge - and those who the design is supposed to represent in some form - any kind of degree - let alone an _architectural _degree - is seen as something that is far beyond their grasp and aspirations. It's about privilege and opportunity, and that's in precious short supply for people struggling to pay the everyday bills in Brixton.



I think in saying this you are insulting people on lower incomes who have worked very hard to achieve degrees.  And beyond.  

I don’t think you actually know what your point is. 

Obviously you quoted selectively and ignored my question about how one can help people get involved, degree or not.  

It seems to be that you are more interested in railing against people you think you disagree with (right wing trolls anyone?)

Anger and invective rather than debate and solutions.  Carry on then.


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I think in saying this you are insulting people on lower incomes who have worked very hard to achieve degrees.  And beyond.
> 
> I don’t think you actually know what your point is.
> 
> ...


If you want people to get involved, you make the effort to engage them. Put up posters on the estates, local schools, libraries etc, and make the entry format easy to understand and accessible to as many people as possible. It's really not that hard.

I was talking to some of my neighbours yesterday about the artwork. None of them even knew that a competition had taken place.


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2018)

alex_ said:


> But are they vibrant hubs ?


Guaranteed.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 14, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Did cause me to think about the site's potential for housing - conversion costs would be high, office space isn't popular as a temp housing solution .. any thoughts?
> 
> Love Lambeth



The move for International House to become yet another creative hub represents a major U-turn for the Progress Cabinet. It was originally set to become housing when plans for Your Nu Town Hall started to develop.

A Council report back in 2014 ruled out International House as not being suitable to become a creative hub. The report even went as far as saying:

“The creative industries tend to prefer quirky space with character rather than open plan space.”

And now we have... an open plan space for the creative industries.

Funding this temporary five year plan for the building also skews some of the financial claims being made by the Progress Cabinet about Your Nu Town Hall.

The spin all along has been that by flogging on twelve buildings and keeping two, Your Nu Town Hall would pay for itself. But International House isn't being sold. This must leave a hole in the finances for Your Nu Town Hall.

The Council spent £763,000 refurbishing the building in 2015. This was a stop gap move to allow staff to move into International House whilst Your Nu Town Hall was being tarted up.

As we have reported on Buzz:

"The ownership of International House is complicated. Lambeth Council owns the freehold. An unnamed company did have a 109-year peppercorn lease. Under a separate under lease it was the responsibility of the Council to manage and repair International House.

Back in 2014 the Council tried to take back control of the lease by buying the head-lease. No mention of the cost of this has been declared. The Council viewed it as “commercially sensitive.”


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I think in saying this you are insulting people on lower incomes who have worked very hard to achieve degrees.  And beyond.
> .



And here is what you say about an example of someone who has:




> If you want me to be clearer about it, I think the new logo on the bridge is a load of wank.



In post 1303

Not exactly complimentary.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 14, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> I was interested to see  ..
> *"London’s biggest affordable workspace now open in Brixton*
> 
> International House, formerly Lambeth Council offices by Brixton Police Station, has re-opened as London’s largest affordable workspace"
> ...



For information International House is part of the Brixton Rec site. Designed and built at same time. Heritage England gave the Brixton Rec Grade two listing. International House was not listed.

The present use of International House is , at this time, temporary whilst Lambeth council property developers regeneration officers have decided to do with the site. Despite Grade two listing the Rec long term future isn't guaranteed.


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> And here is what you say about an example of someone who has:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not even sure what point it is he's trying to make. It's a well known fact that people from poorer areas are less likely to get into higher education, and it would seem that the bridge design process echoed that exclusion. 



> The gap between rich and poor students being granted university places has reached a record high, latest Ucas figures show, prompting fresh concerns over the “shameful” lack of social mobility within education.
> 
> Students who received free school meals – a long-time indicator of poverty – are less than half as likely to enter higher education than their more affluent peers.
> 
> ...


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 14, 2018)

Tricky Skills, firstly, thanks for that context. My initial response is to remember a national fast-moving housing context, and even the national political uncertainty (which may see a new PM in days, or not. Or a radical gov, or not). Given that, I'm almsot relived to hear LBL are looking at the short term opportunites and at regaining full control of the land.

I take you point that it's not great space for this purpose, but it is of course not great space for anything except open floor admin.

Given where we are with 20.5k on the housing list it gives me some hope  - esp. as i look at the private development where Brixton Cycles used to be. I almost don't care if/what they spent on the head lease. Good info though. Thanks.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 14, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Tricky Skills, firstly, thanks for that context. My initial response is to remember a national fast-moving housing context, and even the national political uncertainty (which may see a new PM in days, or not. Or a radical gov, or not). Given that, I'm almsot relived to hear LBL are looking at the short term opportunites and at regaining full control of the land.
> 
> I take you point that it's not great space for this purpose, but it is of course not great space for anything except open floor admin.
> 
> Given where we are with 20.5k on the housing list it gives me some hope  - esp. as i look at the private development where Brixton Cycles used to be. I almost don't care if/what they spent on the head lease. Good info though. Thanks.



Turning International House into meanwhile space is pragmatic.

Council own a lot of land on this site. Pop, the Rec and International House. A large site. Pop has been given new lease.

Council are regaining full control of this large site in order to have time to dream up new plans for "regeneration".

I still think there is possibility of large scale "regeneration" project on this site. Which is likely to mean Council "partnering " with a developer/ consortium.

If not Council will dispose of International House for demolition and sale to property developer.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 14, 2018)

Do you know how long Pop has left from now?


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 14, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Do you know how long Pop has left from now?



Lambeth Council extends Pop Brixton lease for two years as business park fails to deliver any profit


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Do you know how long Pop has left from now?


Probably until all its debtors have been paid off. So maybe some time in 2022. It's been a total financial disaster.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 14, 2018)

Hmm, extended to the end of 2020. You could almost think there's an attempt to bide time but also line up some large ducks.


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## Tricky Skills (Oct 14, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Hmm, extended to the end of 2020. You could almost think there's an attempt to bide time but also line up some large ducks.



Nope, as editor mentioned it's simply so that Makeshift - the company behind the loss making Pop Brixton - can pay off the debts. The project has been a financial disaster for Makeshift and the Council from day one. Not a single penny has been paid to the Council as part of the 50/50 'profit' (ha!) share scheme.

Too much political capital has been invested in Pop by the Progress Cabinet. Both sides have been brilliant with the PR. Ask them about the finances. They start to squirm.

Pop will stay on that site until the debts have somehow been paid off or quietly written off.


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## aka (Oct 15, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> Pop will stay on that site until the debts have somehow been paid off or quietly written off.


 It will be gone at the end of the licence extension. As for finances, turns out box parks are expensive to run what with pesky Health and Safety and seasons and things. I have seen no evidence yet that Lambeth Council have underwritten any debt of the venture, so any ‘writing off’ would be done by someone else. Anyone who has that detail should post it up, cos that would be news.


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

aka said:


> As for finances, turns out box parks are expensive to run what with pesky Health and Safety and seasons and things.


Have they all lost as much money as Pop then?


----------



## CH1 (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> I was interested to see  ..
> *"London’s biggest affordable workspace now open in Brixton*
> 
> International House, formerly Lambeth Council offices by Brixton Police Station, has re-opened as London’s largest affordable workspace"
> ...


Funnily enough use as a hotel would seem to be one idea that hasn't been floated recently and would naturally blend with the council's baby - the rampant Brixton entertainment sector.
Don't tell Sleepless Brixton though.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

The Scribes were bloody brilliant on Friday night at the Effra Social

















In photos: hip hop heroes The Scribes rip it up at the Effra Social, Brixton, Fri 12th Oct 2018


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## aka (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> Have they all lost as much money as Pop then?


some will, some won't.  the Croydon park cost over £3m to build, but benefits from being part of a group who know what they are doing and now have scale and longer timescales.  Investors in Pop must be agitating behind the scenes to get another extension to try to get some money back.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

aka said:


> some will, some won't.  the Croydon park cost over £3m to build, but benefits from being part of a group who know what they are doing and now have scale and longer timescales.  Investors in Pop must be agitating behind the scenes to get another extension to try to get some money back.


Well, they've been gifted Peckham Levels based on their, err, enormous success at Pop.


----------



## alcopop (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> Well, they've been gifted Peckham Levels based on their, err, enormous success at Pop.


They got it for free??!!??


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 15, 2018)

Obv. in Southwark, also another 5-year project.


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## The Fornicator (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> Well, they've been gifted Peckham Levels based on their, err, enormous success at Pop.


Have you read the Impact Study of Pop, would be interesting to see these 'highlights' in  fuller context?

http://love.lambeth.gov.uk/pop-extension/


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## discobastard (Oct 15, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> And here is what you say about an example of someone who has:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not exactly sure why those views should be mutually exclusive.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Have you read the Impact Study of Pop, would be interesting to see these 'highlights' in  fuller context?
> 
> Love Lambeth


That's one large slice of PR fluff that _doesn't even mention_ the immense losses the rent-free site has racked up since its inception.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

alcopop said:


> They got it for free??!!??


'Gifted' (_as in "awarded_") the contract despite their lamentable record at Pop.

And they've got same team on board too, including the Mayfair property developers, The Collective. 


> The project is a collaboration between Carl Turner Architects and The Collective. It is being backed by Make Shift and Southwark Council.


Carl Turner’s Peckham car park conversion given green light


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> That's one large slice of PR fluff that _doesn't even mention_ the immense losses the rent-free site has racked up since its inception.


You have a lot of views, have you read the Impact Study?


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> You have a lot of views, have you rad the Impact Study?


Have you read all of the posts in the Pop Brixton thread here and the articles on Brixton Buzz? I have. Perhaps you should too.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 15, 2018)

If you think Brixton Buzz contains "articles" and a legally required Impact Study is "PR fluff" you can assume I have disengaged. I'll leave you to wallow in your prejudices.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> If you think Brixton Buzz contains "articles" and a legally required Impact Study is "PR fluff" you can assume I have disengaged. I'll leave you to wallow in your prejudices.


Great stuff.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 15, 2018)

The empirical conclusions drawn from the Pop Brixton Evaluation report came from a sample group covering:

Pop Brixton tenants and also businesses in the surrounding area, a survey of Pop Brixton visitors, consultation with those involved in the set up and operation of Pop Brixton, and consultation with a number of wider town centre stakeholders.

Which means that if you are a local resident who doesn't fit the demographic of the Nu Brixton of Pop then your views haven't been represented in the study. That's an incredibly narrow group in which to sample for a community space. Only Sixty-eight people were questioned in total.

The financial analysis of the report covers only a nine month period. It leaves out January to March, the quietest time of the year for footfall. The reality is that the financial figures quoted are likely to be even more dire than those given in the report.

It is interesting that EBITA has been used as the financial system for accounting. This means that the 'profit' quoted doesn't take into account the staggering £1.8M building costs of Pop.

What the figures in the report do show is that the only stable income is rental income. This doesn't inspire confidence in paying off the existing debts as the clock counts down on the lease extension.

If the current figures remain stable then it will take four years to pay off the existing debt. This assumes that no new debt has been acquired since the last loss-making accounts were filed.

It is no surprise that the report likes to judge 'success' at Pop in terms of social capital. The whole container park reeks of the Third Way bollocks so beloved by our Progress Cabinet.

Finally there is no mention in the evaluation report about the cost involved in the mediation bought in by the Council after Carl Turner tried to take over the project and kick out the Edible Bus Stop partners. Any evaluation of the project that doesn't take this into account isn't being entirely honest.


----------



## aka (Oct 15, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> It is interesting that EBITA has been used as the financial system for accounting


[/QUOTE]
Standard stuff, not in the least interesting.  Much like accounting itself.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> If you think Brixton Buzz contains "articles" and a legally required Impact Study is "PR fluff" you can assume I have disengaged. I'll leave you to wallow in your prejudices.



Have you read all the impact study?


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 15, 2018)

Why would I, I've put up a post on here about International House? Pop seems a tangent. 

Seems to me a FOI for the Impact Study would be the way to go in order to form a meaningful view on Pop.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 15, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Not exactly sure why those views should be mutually exclusive.



Here is what you said in post 1316 to the Ed:



> I think in saying this you are insulting people on lower incomes who have worked very hard to achieve degrees. And beyond.



So dismissing a local who has worked hard , got a degree and is trying to put something back as just "wank" comes across as the same as what you say the Ed is doing. 

Under what you have posted about the artwork the same accusation of invective can be applied to you.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Why would I, I've put up a post on here about International House? Pop seems a tangent.


You were extremely dismissive of Brixton Buzz's 'articles', and that seems rather strange now that you've admitted that you know precious little on the topic under discussion.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Why would I, I've put up a post on here about International House? Pop seems a tangent.
> 
> Seems to me a FOI for the Impact Study would be the way to go in order to form a meaningful view on Pop.



FFS you asked about it.

Post 1325

Also see your posts 1328, 1388 etc.

If you had read the Pop thread its on there.

In your post 1344 you say to the Ed



> If you think Brixton Buzz contains "articles" and a legally required Impact Study is "PR fluff" you can assume I have disengaged. I'll leave you to wallow in your prejudices.


When I ask you if you have read the Impact study you say no. All you have read is the Love Lambeth article.

Yet you accuse the Ed of wallowing in his own prejudices when you have not actually read the Impact study yourself.

What Ed was posting was that the Love Lambeth article was PR take on the study. Picking out the bits that make Lambeth look good. Which is the point of Love Lambeth. Its a PR section of Lambeth Council.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> What Ed was posting was that the Love Lambeth article was PR take on the study. Picking out the bits that make Lambeth look good. Which is the point of Love Lambeth. Its a PR section of Lambeth Council.


All rather obvious, I would have thought...



Gramsci said:


> Yet you accuse the Ed if wallowing in his own prejudices when you have not actually read the Impact study yourself.


Indeed. Add in his slagging off of Brixton Buzz and it's looking more and more like he's just here to troll.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Why would I, I've put up a post on here about International House? Pop seems a tangent.
> 
> Seems to me a FOI for the Impact Study would be the way to go in order to form a meaningful view on Pop.



In the link to the Love Lambeth article there is link that is meant to take one to the study. I can't get it to work. Did you try it?


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> All rather obvious, I would have thought...
> 
> .



Why I found it rather exasperating to take issue with. Its that it got likes. So thought I would make the obvious more clear.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Why would I, I've put up a post on here about International House? Pop seems a tangent.
> 
> Seems to me a FOI for the Impact Study would be the way to go in order to form a meaningful view on Pop.



From my Google drive where I kept it.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> Indeed. Add in his slagging off of Brixton Buzz and it's looking more and more like he's just here to troll.



Slagging of Brixton Buzz is a favourite sport here.

What is forgotten is all the support its given to local issues. I don't forget support for Carlton mansions or the Grove APG.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Slagging of Brixton Buzz is a favourite sport here.
> 
> What is forgotten is all the support its given to local issues. I don't forget support for Carlton mansions or the Grove APG.


Thankfully, there's plenty of locals, business owners, musicians and others in the real world who really appreciate the work we put in. 

And online, too:


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## The Fornicator (Oct 16, 2018)

Who is stan?



editor said:


> You were extremely dismissive of Brixton Buzz's 'articles', and that seems rather strange now that you've admitted that you know precious little on the topic under discussion.


No one thinks Brixton Buzz is journalism. It's someone shouting from a web page instead of at traffic.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> No one thinks Brixton Buzz is journalism. It's someone shouting from a web page instead of at traffic.


That's definitely not true but I'm pretty sure that no one gives much of a shit about your trolling and cheap abuse. Buzz does a lot for the community. And you?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 16, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Who is stan?
> 
> No one thinks Brixton Buzz is journalism. It's someone shouting from a web page instead of at traffic.



Or 'shouting' from the floor of the Lambeth Council local election count, the only local organisation doing this. Were you one of the 41,000+ people following our 'not journalism' on that day?


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

Some pics from a great club night:



























In photos: Wonderland charity party at the Prince of Wales, Brixton, Sat 13th Oct 2018


----------



## CH1 (Oct 16, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> Or 'shouting' from the floor of the Lambeth Council local election count, the only local organisation doing this. Were you one of the 41,000+ people following our 'not journalism' on that day?


You election coverage was very helpful - in fact it was the only account available of what was going on.

Not going to dip into the argument about Brixton Buzz reports of Pop Brixton/International house & partiality thereof. I notice Brixton Blog also has views about particular developments, so Buzz is not alone in having a "line" on particular issues.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

CH1 said:


> You election coverage was very helpful - in fact it was the only account available of what was going on.
> 
> Not going to dip into the argument about Brixton Buzz reports of Pop Brixton/International house & partiality thereof. I notice Brixton Blog also has views about particular developments, so Buzz is not alone in having a "line" on particular issues.


Thing is, just about every news outlet on the planet may appear biased one way or another to some readers on contentious issues, because unless they're just regurgitating a press release, their interpretation of the facts may well deviate from someone else's.

Either way, I'm not going to apologise for the fact that Buzz is a campaigning website, and we do a bloody good job of countering Lambeth's spin and downright lies (see: their take on Pop's 'success' and their council house claims).


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

Looks authentic


----------



## aka (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> Looks authentic


How?


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

aka said:


> How?


I'm taking the piss, of course.


----------



## lefteri (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> Looks authentic



As someone on Facebook pointed out, the only non-white faces are serving food

Nu-Brixton at its finest


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

lefteri said:


> As someone on Facebook pointed out, the only non-white faces are serving food
> 
> Nu-Brixton at its finest


It's like the Pop Brixton effect is spreading far and wide. Depressing as fuck.


----------



## lefteri (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> It's like the Pop Brixton effect is spreading far and wide. Depressing as fuck.


That said, the last couple of times I’ve been into pop to use the record shop, it seems fairly diverse racially, maybe more so than when it opened?


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

lefteri said:


> That said, the last couple of times I’ve been into pop to use the record shop, it seems fairly diverse racially, maybe more so than when it opened?


Maybe it's got better but almost every time I've popped in, there's been a_ very_ mono-cultural crowd in. That said, they do at least occasionally have some events that attract a more diverse crowd, although it's still generally for those with more disposable income than many in the area.


----------



## aka (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm taking the piss, of course.


Good skills.


----------



## lefteri (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> Maybe it's got better but almost every time I've popped in, there's been a_ very_ mono-cultural crowd in. That said, they do at least occasionally have some events that attract a more diverse crowd, although it's still generally for those with more disposable income than many in the area.


That’s what I was expecting but I found it not to be the case, and this was just a weekday afternoon - nothing special on


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

This guy is brilliant - come along to the Effra Social and check him out. It's free all night 



Friday in Brixton: live grime/hip hop with James Pyke plus Brixton Buzz DJs at the Effra Social – free!


----------



## alcopop (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> 'Gifted' (_as in "awarded_") the contract despite their lamentable record at Pop.
> 
> And they've got same team on board too, including the Mayfair property developers, The Collective.
> 
> Carl Turner’s Peckham car park conversion given green light



That’s not what it means though is it you sneaky little so and so 

past tense: *gifted*; past participle: *gifted*

give (something) as a gift, especially formally or as a donation or bequest.
"the company gifted 2,999 shares to a charity"
present (someone) with a gift or gifts.
"the queen *gifted* him *with* a heart-shaped brooch"


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

alcopop said:


> That’s not what it means though is it you sneaky little so and so


I've already posted up a definition that explained *exactly* what I meant, so please quit this tiresome pedantry. 

Given their appalling, loss-making performance at Pop Brixton, there is no way on earth they should have been let loose on Peckham Levels.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> Thing is, just about every news outlet on the planet may appear biased one way or another to some readers on contentious issues, because unless they're just regurgitating a press release, their interpretation of the facts may well deviate from someone else's.
> 
> Either way, I'm not going to apologise for the fact that Buzz is a campaigning website, and we do a bloody good job of countering Lambeth's spin and downright lies (see: their take on Pop's 'success' and their council house claims).



I'm sure nobody cares what I think but I do believe Buzz is a really important voice in Brixton and the local area.  Yes, sometimes the articles can be a bit sarcastic and/or confrontational but I understand and more often than not support that (particularly in the case of the council, more often so as opposed to articles on individual businesses).  But there's nothing else like it and it provides a good intravenous shot of reality.  

It gets heated and sometimes biased here but Buzz is a great resource.  It's like a local Private Eye - and Tricky Skills' FOI articles are great (and that's not a criticism of other writers).  That might sound like I'm blowing smoke but I'm being thoroughly sincere.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 16, 2018)

lefteri said:


> As someone on Facebook pointed out, the only non-white faces are serving food
> 
> Nu-Brixton at its finest



Surprised there's only the one comment.  Worthy of a FaceBomb for such a crass video.  Have at them, Urbs...


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I'm sure nobody cares what I think but I do believe Buzz is a really important voice in Brixton and the local area.  Yes, sometimes the articles can be a bit sarcastic and/or confrontational but I understand and more often than not support that (particularly in the case of the council, more often so as opposed to articles on individual businesses).  But there's nothing else like it and it provides a good intravenous shot of reality.
> 
> It gets heated and sometimes biased here but Buzz is a great resource.  It's like a local Private Eye - and Tricky Skills' FOI articles are great (and that's not a criticism of other writers).  That might sound like I'm blowing smoke but I'm being thoroughly sincere.


Thank you. That is appreciated. 

It's nice to hear praise, but what really troubles me is this. If Buzz (and in particular, Jason) wasn't writing this stuff, Lambeth would just _get away_ with a lot of their outright lies. e.g. Exclusive: Lambeth Council admits only 17 council houses built in the past four years – despite Lambeth Labour claim of 950

With the death of traditional newspapers, we need investigative journalism more than ever, and we can only provide a platform because we have jobs that are flexible enough with  time. In some respects it feels like Buzz has taken over from local councillors, as we often get emails from residents asking for help because they can't get help elsewhere (or because Lambeth is screwing them over). And inevitably there's a load of people we can't help out because we're all doing this in our spare time. 

And it makes me angry. As does the endless bullshit press releases I get most days from well-connected blow-ins trying to cash in on Brixton's heritage or looking to further divide the community with even more upmarket and exclusive bars and restaurants. It's hard not to get cynical and angry when you see the way that rich companies can essentially buy their local credibility, offering the 'right' kind of locals deals they financially can't turn down (Squires and Pure Vinyl, Brixton market and local DJs etc) and then plastering it all over their PR and social media. 

I know my style on here can be confrontational, bombastic and plain twatty at times, but it's hard to keep a cool head when I'm dealing with all this and then have people going out of their way to try and pick petty personal fights here when there's _so much more important stuff going on in Brixton. 
_
Anyway, rant over.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

So, who likes this now that it's almost finished? And how long before it's covered in tags and voices from the street?


----------



## lefteri (Oct 16, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Surprised there's only the one comment.  Worthy of a FaceBomb for such a crass video.  Have at them, Urbs...


it was on a friend's thread who'd shared the video in disgust, not the original post


----------



## lefteri (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> So, who likes this now that it's almost finished? And how long before it's covered in tags and voices from the street?
> 
> View attachment 149823
> 
> View attachment 149824



it's pretty unimaginative but not offensive - deserves to be tagged to fuck


----------



## discobastard (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> Thank you. That is appreciated.
> 
> It's nice to hear praise, but what really troubles me is this. If Buzz (and in particular, Jason) wasn't writing this stuff, Lambeth would just _get away_ with a lot of their outright lies. e.g. Exclusive: Lambeth Council admits only 17 council houses built in the past four years – despite Lambeth Labour claim of 950
> 
> ...



I think that everybody on here can be bombastic, plain and twatty.  And I understand your frustration with the endless bullshit PR releases you receive from businesses that haven't taken the time to understand what the Brixton mood is (and why would they - they are trying to get their own heads above water).  

I don't think that *everybody* is trying to pick personal fights, but writing on internet forums does tend to polarise people in a way that face to face conversation doesn't.  And I've said that before.  We're not always going to agree on everything, but keep at it  

Does Buzz have a formal representation at council meetings or is it just Jason?  And nobody has posted on the Afro Brunch Facebook - they deserve a kicking for a crass post.  

Anyway, keep at it editor


----------



## discobastard (Oct 16, 2018)

lefteri said:


> it was on a friend's thread who'd shared the video in disgust, not the original post



Knock yourself out

Afro Brunch


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2018)

If it's as good as last week, this should be a splendid way to spend a relaxing evening 

See new talent at Brixton’s Newschool free event tonight, Dogstar 8pm, Thurs 18th Oct


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## editor (Oct 18, 2018)

Meeting tonight - Get involved with the Lambeth Cyclists at their monthly Thursday meetings in Stockwell


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## editor (Oct 18, 2018)

Oh, I'm unexpectedly DJing here tonight! 







It’s a free Beyoncé to Britpop Brixton Buzz party tonight at the Dogstar, Thurs 18th Oct, 10pm-2am


----------



## editor (Oct 19, 2018)

Pics from Wednesday night 





















Brixton Wednesday late night jam sessions: Club 414 and the Queen’s Head


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## editor (Oct 19, 2018)

If anyone fancies checking this guy out, he's onstage at 10pm. He really is very, very good!

Friday in Brixton: live grime/hip hop with James Pyke plus Brixton Buzz DJs at the Effra Social – free!


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## editor (Oct 19, 2018)

And this was another cracking night with really good young performers

















In photos: Danny Starr and Arran George live at Newschool at the Brixton Dogstar, Thurs 18th Oct 2018


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## editor (Oct 19, 2018)

What's this hogging the space in front of Brixton Village? Why it's a 'field kitchen' - you know, like the military use to feed troops near the front line. Now that's damn edgy all right.


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## editor (Oct 20, 2018)

We had a grand night at the Effra Social tonight!


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## organicpanda (Oct 20, 2018)

editor said:


> What's this hogging the space in front of Brixton Village? Why it's a 'field kitchen' - you know, like the military use to feed troops near the front line. Now that's damn edgy all right.
> 
> View attachment 150064


they were using it as network rail blocked their extraction system rendering their kitchen unusable


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## alcopop (Oct 20, 2018)

editor said:


> What's this hogging the space in front of Brixton Village? Why it's a 'field kitchen' - you know, like the military use to feed troops near the front line. Now that's damn edgy all right.
> 
> View attachment 150064


Calm down dear


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## editor (Oct 20, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Calm down dear


Seeing as you're only hear to troll, antagonise and act like a child, we're now on mutual ignore. I believe you know what this means, so if you respond to my posts or refer to me in any way at all, you accrue warnings points. Carry on and it turns into a temp ban. Shame really, but this forum is about Brixton and not your personal beef.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2018)

editor said:


> What's this hogging the space in front of Brixton Village? Why it's a 'field kitchen' - you know, like the military use to feed troops near the front line. Now that's damn edgy all right.
> 
> View attachment 150064



i see it's being investigated by a bomb disposal robot


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## klang (Oct 20, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 150154
> i see it's being investigated by a bomb disposal robot


no, a Brixton rascal was in need of a right back wheel.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2018)

littleseb said:


> no, a Brixton rascal was in need of a right back wheel.


if they've been watching it roll they'll likely be a dizzy rascal


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## klang (Oct 20, 2018)

at least they have a sick bucket at the ready.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2018)

littleseb said:


> at least they have a sick bucket at the ready.


quite a capacious one too


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## editor (Oct 20, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 150154
> i see it's being investigated by a bomb disposal robot


Right next to the (guffaw) 'field kitchen' there were some DJs playing on Thursday night. Their gazebo had no lights and no one was dancing but it was pretty loud. Makes you wonder how it's OK in the Villaaaage, but it wasn't OK in the more affordable (and quieter) Granvile market space opposite, which got swiftly closed down.


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## editor (Oct 20, 2018)

Pics from last night 


























In photos: James Pyke and Brixton Buzz bring the party to Brixton’s Effra Social, Fri 19th Oct 2018


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## editor (Oct 21, 2018)

So the people who created this 'anti-gentrification' artwork in Pope's Road sell wallpaper for up to £199 a sheet, pillows for £89, kimonos for £499 and scarves for £199 _each.
_
So the 'street art' is essentially an advert for their luxury goods, presumably rubber stamped by Lambeth/Network Rail or whoever.



Welcome to Elli Popp

Oh, I notice that the work uses at least one of my (uncredited) photos too, so perhaps I should write an article with the headline "Luxury interior design company Elli Popp steals activist photos for Brixton anti-gentrification artwork."

How does that sound?


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## editor (Oct 21, 2018)

Oh wait, she's been selling prints of the work too 

Art Car Boot Fair is about to open it’s doors from 12-6pm Kings Cross-London @art_car_boot_fair @elli_popp  #acbf #acbf2 - 1869608514102366141

She also designed the wallpaper for the Lambeth registry office. Given her sky high prices, I wonder how much of our hard earned tax Lambeth council tax went her way....


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## friendofdorothy (Oct 21, 2018)

editor said:


> Oh, I notice that the work uses at least one of my (uncredited) photos too, so perhaps I should write an article with the headline "Luxury interior design company Elli Popp steals activist photos for Brixton anti-gentrification artwork."
> 
> How does that sound?


If she has used one of your photos without your permission you write to her with an invoice, claiming your fee and asking her to stop selling work that includes your photo.


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## editor (Oct 22, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> If she has used one of your photos without your permission you write to her with an invoice, claiming your fee and asking her to stop selling work that includes your photo.


I've already written to her asking why she chose to use my image(s) without permission - so there's her opportunity to offer some financial redress -  but I am also very uncomfortable with the whole notion of this kind of work by high end interior designers on the theme of gentrification. Seems rather exploitative.


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## RoyReed (Oct 22, 2018)

editor said:


> I've already written to her asking why she chose to use my image(s) without permission - so there's her opportunity to offer some financial redress -  but I am also very uncomfortable with the whole notion of this kind of work by high end interior designers on the theme of gentrification. Seems rather exploitative.


It would come under the term of "derivative works" which does allow for some types of use without permission, but not, I think, in this case.


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## editor (Oct 22, 2018)

RoyReed said:


> It would come under the term of "derivative works" which does allow for some types of use without permission, but not, I think, in this case.


There's now two separate examples of my photos being used without permission in outdoor artworks around Brixton. Kind of pisses me off when it takes so little to ask, and it pisses me off even more when it's being used to advertise the services of luxury interior designers.


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## twistedAM (Oct 22, 2018)

editor said:


> I've already written to her asking why she chose to use my image(s) without permission - so there's her opportunity to offer some financial redress -  but I am also very uncomfortable with the whole notion of this kind of work by high end interior designers on the theme of gentrification. Seems rather exploitative.



Send a letter saying you've consulted a solicitor and she should withdraw the products immediately as you were not asked permission and don't want financial redresss from such a project.


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## shakespearegirl (Oct 22, 2018)

editor said:


> There's now two separate examples of my photos being used without permission in outdoor artworks around Brixton. Kind of pisses me off when it takes so little to ask, and it pisses me off even more when it's being used to advertise the services of luxury interior designers.



Clearly infringing your copyright! You should demand the products be withdrawn from sale and she should refrain from using your photography in any future designs. Are your photographs the ones featuring people? If so, you should also inform her that you don't have model releases as you were only using them in an editorial context and the images are not cleared for commercial use.


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## editor (Oct 22, 2018)

Just learnt that the Wicked Wednesday jam night at the Queen's Head has been cancelled because of noise complaints. Much as I loved the night, I'm not that surprised to be honest as live bands can be really loud - with or without a PA - and there was no new soundproofing that I could see. And the noise from people chatting outside in the street has always been a problem in this venue. It's a crying shame though - there are fewer and fewer live late night music venues left in Brixton.


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## RoyReed (Oct 22, 2018)

shakespearegirl said:


> Clearly infringing your copyright! You should demand the products be withdrawn from sale and she should refrain from using your photography in any future designs. Are your photographs the ones featuring people? If so, you should also inform her that you don't have model releases as you were only using them in an editorial context and the images are not cleared for commercial use.


Actually I don't think a model release would be necessary for this type of usage. That would apply if the person depicted looked like they were being used to endorse or sell a product or service. Not that editor shouldn't be either seeking recompense or asking for the product to be withdrawn.


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## editor (Oct 22, 2018)

RoyReed said:


> Actually I don't think a model release would be necessary for this type of usage. That would apply if the person depicted looked like they were being used to endorse or sell a product or service. Not that editor shouldn't be either seeking recompense or asking for the product to be withdrawn.


She's sent me a really apologetic message, full of praise for what I do, but the bottom line is that I don't want my work used - or connected with - luxury lifestyles, especially whren it's unpaid and unaccredited.


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## editor (Oct 22, 2018)

Sent the artist a pretty furious response.


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## Smick (Oct 23, 2018)

editor said:


> Sent the artist a pretty furious response.


If she has done it to you, the chances are that she does it wholesale to many artists, some of whom will never find out about it, some of whom don’t have the confidence / knowledge to challenge her which you have. The chances are she is being so complimentary so that she can keep her luxury goods on sale.


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## discobastard (Oct 23, 2018)

Smick said:


> If she has done it to you, the chances are that she does it wholesale to many artists, some of whom will never find out about it, some of whom don’t have the confidence / knowledge to challenge her which you have. The chances are she is being so complimentary so that she can keep her luxury goods on sale.


For context, it seems the photography has only been used for the art installation as part of London Design Week, which is not a commercial venture.  Prints of which are for sale with profits going to relevant charities. 

She does not appear to be selling wallpaper or other artwork including the photos anywhere on her website for commercial gain.  Not that I can see at least, though willing to be corrected on that.


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## RoyReed (Oct 23, 2018)

discobastard said:


> For context, it seems the photography has only been used for the art installation as part of London Design Week, which is not a commercial venture.  Prints of which are for sale with profits going to relevant charities.
> 
> She does not appear to be selling wallpaper or other artwork including the photos anywhere on her website for commercial gain.  Not that I can see at least, though willing to be corrected on that.


That's absolutely irrelevant to the fact that she should have asked the copyright holder ( editor ) for permission to use his work first.


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## discobastard (Oct 23, 2018)

RoyReed said:


> That's absolutely irrelevant to the fact that she should have asked the copyright holder ( editor ) for permission to use his work first.


I never said she shouldn’t and I agree with you.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2018)

discobastard said:


> For context, it seems the photography has only been used for the art installation as part of London Design Week, which is not a commercial venture.  Prints of which are for sale with profits going to relevant charities.
> 
> She does not appear to be selling wallpaper or other artwork including the photos anywhere on her website for commercial gain.  Not that I can see at least, though willing to be corrected on that.


As RoyReed has pointed out that is _totally irrelevant_. It doesn't matter at all what the work was being used for, or whether she was paid or not.  It's a nonsense point that provides no useful 'context' whatsoever.



Moreover, seeing as a large advert for her company appeared next to the work in question, she was clearly using it as an opportunity to promote her own luxury goods brand, which creates similar works.

Incidentally, she was also selling prints at an art fair and I saw no mention of any money going to charity, not that is has anything to do with the actual issue here.


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## editor (Oct 23, 2018)

There's a new regular Tuesday night jam sessions at the 414 led by ex-Fela Kuti sax player Bukka Leo







New Tuesday late night jazz special for Brixton at the Club 414 on Coldharbour Lane


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## discobastard (Oct 23, 2018)

editor said:


> As RoyReed has pointed out that is _totally irrelevant_. It doesn't matter at all what the work was being used for, or whether she was paid or not.  It's a nonsense point that provides no useful 'context' whatsoever.
> 
> View attachment 150429
> 
> ...



It has plenty to do with the issue and I also agree with you.  

If you look at the projects section of her website it explains the installation and also the charity element.  

The context is important as one wouldn't want to mistakenly assume she is selling work based on your photographs on an ongoing basis for purely commercial gain.

It's still out of order though - so I don't know why you're using italics at me.


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## editor (Oct 23, 2018)

discobastard said:


> The context is important as one wouldn't want to mistakenly assume she is selling work based on your photographs on an ongoing basis for purely commercial gain.


The charity element is utterly irrelevant. She is a professional artist who used my work without permission or credit for an outdoor installation which heavily advertised her commercial luxury services. The same work also appears in her commercial portfolio online and prints were sold at the Kings Cross Art Fair in Sept 2018.

Quite why you're pursuing this half arsed defence is beyond me, tbh.


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## aka (Oct 23, 2018)

editor said:


> Oh, I notice that the work uses at least one of my (uncredited) photos too


which bit.  looks like Elli has changed the website?


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## editor (Oct 23, 2018)

aka said:


> which bit.  looks like Elli has changed the website?


Does it matter? It's clearly my photo that is featured in the work. That's why I spotted it so easily.


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## aka (Oct 23, 2018)

editor said:


> Does it matter? It's clearly my photo that is featured in the work. That's why I spotted it so easily.


sorry, it's not clear to me, but I don't know all your photos.


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## editor (Oct 23, 2018)

aka said:


> sorry, it's not clear to me, but I don't know all your photos.


And how does that change the argument?  But just for you, here's the image. There's at least one other image in there that looks like mine.


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## aka (Oct 23, 2018)

Thanks, that confirms it for me.


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## editor (Oct 23, 2018)

aka said:


> Thanks, that confirms it for me.


Confirms what, exactly?


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## aka (Oct 23, 2018)

That’s right.


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## editor (Oct 23, 2018)

aka said:


> That’s right.


Any chance of you expressing whatever point it is you want to make in a manner which can be understood by all? Thanks.


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## discobastard (Oct 24, 2018)

editor said:


> The charity element is utterly irrelevant. She is a professional artist who used my work without permission or credit for an outdoor installation which heavily advertised her commercial luxury services. The same work also appears in her commercial portfolio online and prints were sold at the Kings Cross Art Fair in Sept 2018.
> 
> Quite why you're pursuing this half arsed defence is beyond me, tbh.





aka said:


> which bit.  looks like Elli has changed the website?



I agree.  And I am not defending the artist.  Pointing out that her current wallpapers on sale for several hundred pounds per roll (which is mental btw) do not appear to feature your work is _not a defence_ of the fact that she has clearly appropriated some excellent photography for free and with no credit.  Whether they are for projects highlighting gentrification or for charity is no excuse.  I was just pointing out what she _appears_ to have used your work for and that it doesn't appear to [still?] be on sale for stupid prices (maybe she did take them down ass aka suggests).  And I also think it would be extremely hyocritical for a Brixton artist charging those kind of prices without clearance to be protesting gentrification.

If I were you I would be extremely pissed off and would want credit, payment or public withdrawal of any existing examples of the work whether sold for charities or not.  And I hope you get to the bottom of it and get the credit due.  Is that clear?


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## editor (Oct 24, 2018)

Brixton tomorrow Futures Festival in Brixton – young persons’ careers fair in Angell Town, Thurs 25th Oct


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 24, 2018)

I recently paid £720 for four rolls of wallpaper....

It's handmade and quite lovely....it wasn't for me, it was for a wall at work (and the artwork on it wasn't ripped off....)


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## editor (Oct 24, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I recently paid £720 for four rolls of wallpaper....


How the other 'alf live, eh?


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## klang (Oct 24, 2018)

I thought the days of wallpaper were long gone...


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 24, 2018)

editor said:


> How the other 'alf live, eh?



Quality products which have taken time and effort and creativity to produce should command a decent price.

I wouldn't pay that much myself....but it's quite nice spending someone else's money...


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## blameless77 (Oct 24, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I agree.  And I am not defending the artist.  Pointing out that her current wallpapers on sale for several hundred pounds per roll (which is mental btw) do not appear to feature your work is _not a defence_ of the fact that she has clearly appropriated some excellent photography for free and with no credit.  Whether they are for projects highlighting gentrification or for charity is no excuse.  I was just pointing out what she _appears_ to have used your work for and that it doesn't appear to [still?] be on sale for stupid prices (maybe she did take them down ass aka suggests).  And I also think it would be extremely hyocritical for a Brixton artist charging those kind of prices without clearance to be protesting gentrification.
> 
> If I were you I would be extremely pissed off and would want credit, payment or public withdrawal of any existing examples of the work whether sold for charities or not.  And I hope you get to the bottom of it and get the credit due.  Is that clear?



So, as it happens I'm in the same studio space as this artist (who, by the way was one of the artists recently evicted from Brixton Market), and I just spoke to her. She's actually really upset about the situation. She asked if she could use a picture of my child, and has credited all photos except that one - as she wasn't able to track down who had produced it. She created this piece of work to highlight issues of gentrification, regularly donates materials to local primary schools, and is donating the proceeds of this piece of work to local charities. Does seem a bit unfair that you've latched onto her 'commercial luxury services' when she's actually barely making a living, and STILL takes the time to support local causes. Just adding this for balance!


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## editor (Oct 24, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> So, as it happens I'm in the same studio space as this artist (who, by the way was one of the artists recently evicted from Brixton Market), and I just spoke to her. She's actually really upset about the situation. She asked if she could use a picture of my child, and has credited all photos except that one - as she wasn't able to track down who had produced it. She created this piece of work to highlight issues of gentrification, regularly donates materials to local primary schools, and is donating the proceeds of this piece of work to local charities. Does seem a bit unfair that you've latched onto her 'commercial luxury services' when she's actually barely making a living, and STILL takes the time to support local causes. Just adding this for balance!


On her Facebook page she says her company produces "Luxury wall coverings, fabric and home accessories," and the prices she charges are _absolutely _on the luxury end of the scale (£200 for a scarf, £120 for a_ pillow!_).

It took me precisely 10 seconds to find the source of the image.





blameless77 said:


> She asked if she could use a picture of my child


I think that's my photo too as it's off the same page and looks identical.

Oh and she's only giving half of the profits to charity and pocketing the rest.


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## blameless77 (Oct 24, 2018)

editor said:


> On her Facebook page she says her company produces "Luxury wall coverings, fabric and home accessories," and the prices she charges are _absolutely _on the luxury end of the scale (£200 for a scarf, £120 for a_ pillow!_).
> 
> It took me precisely 10 seconds to find the source of the image.
> 
> ...



Actually, that's a different image to the one that she asked me about. Same day though... 

"Pocketing" makes it sounds like she's stealing. Perhaps you don't think artists should be able to make a living from their work?

Typically, you've latched onto the most expensive item on her website, and given the impression that it's all that expensive. That's not the case, as a quick review of the site makes clear. This piece for example is £3. That's less than the price of a box of chicken....so hardly out of reach for most Brixton residents. 

Dusk-The sound of w... by Elli Popp

I get that you're annoyed that she's used a photo uncredited (although I notice she credited all of the other photos used). I think you're unjustified in complaining that she's not donating ALL proceeds to charity. Do you think studio space, materials, paper and printing are free? Or perhaps you don't think artists deserve a living wage, because they're all 'yuppies', or get to enjoy what they do, rather than slaving for the man for 50 pence and a button?

Mostly I applaud the work you do to highlight the effects of gentrification, and provide a forum and a space for people to discuss what action can be taken in a constructive way. In this particular case I think you've chosen the softest of targets, and she doesn't deserve the negative press you've created around her work.


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## Angellic (Oct 24, 2018)

You can't expect people to eat wallpaper samples.


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## klang (Oct 24, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> Perhaps you don't think artists should be able to make a living from their work


what about photographers?


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## editor (Oct 24, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> Actually, that's a different image to the one that she asked me about. Same day though...


She's just told me that it is my pic. It certainly looks like it.


blameless77 said:


> "Pocketing" makes it sounds like she's stealing. Perhaps you don't think artists should be able to make a living from their work?


I'm all for artists making a living from their work, but in this case she nicked my images and she's profiting  from it. The amount of money doesn't really matter.


blameless77 said:


> Typically, you've latched onto the most expensive item on her website, and given the impression that it's all that expensive. That's not the case, as a quick review of the site makes clear. This piece for example is £3. That's less than the price of a box of chicken....so hardly out of reach for most Brixton residents..


But the majority of her work is very, very expensive and totally unaffordable to many. I haven't even mentioned the £459 wallpaper!

I think that £3 is for the A4 _sample_, by the way!


blameless77 said:


> I get that you're annoyed that she's used a photo uncredited (although I notice she credited all of the other photos used). I think you're unjustified in complaining that she's not donating ALL proceeds to charity. Do you think studio space, materials, paper and printing are free? Or perhaps you don't think artists deserve a living wage, because they're all 'yuppies', or get to enjoy what they do, rather than slaving for the man for 50 pence and a button?


It says that she's donating 50% of the PROFITS.



blameless77 said:


> Or perhaps you don't think artists deserve a living wage, because they're all 'yuppies', or get to enjoy what they do, rather than slaving for the man for 50 pence and a button?.


I think artists should _always_ be paid for their work, and credited too, unless they choose to do something for free.

Which is where I came in....


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## blameless77 (Oct 24, 2018)

OK - well I can see you're very pissed off about this - and that despite her offering to pay you for the photo, remove the work or otherwise make good on what was a genuine mistake, probably driven by trying to meet a deadline, you'd rather defame her on a public forum. She's not making any money out of it - that's the point. Do you think paper, print, ink, etc are free? She's entitled to cover costs surely?  In terms of the 'expensive' items on her website, again you're presenting them in a very disingenuous manner, out of context. Perhaps you erroneously assume that she gets all of the money from those goods, rather than distributors, manufacturers and agents taking a massive cut. Guess how much she makes out of those £200 cushions....£5. 

So, again, I say you're picking on the softest of soft targets, and suggest you focus your considerable power and energies on something that actually deserves to be criticized.


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## editor (Oct 24, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> OK - well I can see you're very pissed off about this - and that despite her offering to pay you for the photo, remove the work or otherwise make good on what was a genuine mistake, probably driven by trying to meet a deadline, you'd rather defame her on a public forum. She's not making any money out of it - that's the point. Do you think paper, print, ink, etc are free? She's entitled to cover costs surely?  In terms of the 'expensive' items on her website, again you're presenting them in a very disingenuous manner, out of context. Perhaps you erroneously assume that she gets all of the money from those goods, rather than distributors, manufacturers and agents taking a massive cut. Guess how much she makes out of those £200 cushions....£5.


How am I defaming her? What have I said that isn't accurate?

But, yes, I am pissed off at seeing my unaccredited and unpaid work appearing on a Brixton wall and being used to advertise a_ luxury _goods company - and that's the word she used to describe her own business, so I'm not making it up.

But I'm really not sure where you're getting this argument that I don't expect her to cover her costs. Of course she can. Like any artist, I hope she _always_ gets what the work is worth.

She has only just replied to my message and I'll respond shortly, and while my work remains plastered on a wall in Brixton, I'm afraid I'll keep talking about it.


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## Angellic (Oct 24, 2018)

littleseb said:


> I thought the days of wallpaper were long gone...



Do keep up.


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## Angellic (Oct 24, 2018)

The Queen of The Netherlands in Pop Brixton. No relation to Elli Popp, AFAIK.


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## aka (Oct 24, 2018)

colours, hats, children, royalty,  it's  a YES from me.


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## editor (Oct 24, 2018)

Angellic said:


> The Queen of The Netherlands in Pop Brixton. No relation to Elli Popp, AFAIK.


Ugh.


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## Tricky Skills (Oct 24, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> "Pocketing" makes it sounds like she's stealing.



Yep. She is.


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## blameless77 (Oct 24, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> Yep. She is.


No, she’s not. Hopefully editor will get a chance to explain why. In fact, if we want to focus our energies on someone who actually is stealing fro the community, can we discuss GLl / ‘Better’ who are bust privatising our leisure activities, whils trousering a hefty subsidy from local government to NOT provide any half term or in-term fatigues for local youth beyond offering (paid) membership to their teen gym?thats the teal scandal. Why were they gifted the Carnegie library contract? Why have they got a stranglehold on all leisure service Cesare across multiple boroughs whilst failing, in multiple instances , to pay a living wage AND asking staff to pay to use facilities?thats the real question!


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## Tricky Skills (Oct 24, 2018)

Nope. The real question on this thread is how a copyrighted photo ended up being for sale having been lifted by another artist.


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## blameless77 (Oct 24, 2018)

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.   From the school of thought that assumes people are just a bit crap rather than actively wicked. She tried to do something kind, which backfired spectacularly due to not crossing the i’s and crossing the t’s. it bugs me that me that we hold individuals, trying to help their communities up to the standards of large corporations with marketing departments- and find them lacking. Of course they’re lacking - they’re not Starbucks. And meanwhile tricky skills, whom I respect as a great journalist....


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## blameless77 (Oct 24, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.   From the school of thought that assumes people are just a bit crap rather than actively wicked. She tried to do something kind, which backfired spectacularly due to not crossing the i’s and crossing the t’s. it bugs me that me that we hold individuals, trying to help their communities up to the standards of large corporations with marketing departments- and find them lacking. Of course they’re lacking - they’re not Starbucks. And meanwhile tricky skills, whom I respect as a great journalist....


You didn’t t want to engage with what’s really wrong


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## editor (Oct 24, 2018)

On a completely different note, it's interesting to see the intricate brickwork underneath the sadly empty arches on Atlantic Rd.


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## Gramsci (Oct 25, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.   From the school of thought that assumes people are just a bit crap rather than actively wicked. She tried to do something kind, which backfired spectacularly due to not crossing the i’s and crossing the t’s. it bugs me that me that we hold individuals, trying to help their communities up to the standards of large corporations with marketing departments- and find them lacking. Of course they’re lacking - they’re not Starbucks. And meanwhile tricky skills, whom I respect as a great journalist....



I regularly post up here on issues that aren't about individuals. Issues like the Brixton hotel planning application and Grove Adventure playground.

These get little interest.

Taking a pop at the Editor for something he says plenty of posts to criticise Ed. 

I find it annoying to have to go through load of tedious posts directed at Ed to get to stuff relevant to Brixton.


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## Gramsci (Oct 25, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.   From the school of thought that assumes people are just a bit crap rather than actively wicked. She tried to do something kind, which backfired spectacularly due to not crossing the i’s and crossing the t’s. it bugs me that me that we hold individuals, trying to help their communities up to the standards of large corporations with marketing departments- and find them lacking. Of course they’re lacking - they’re not Starbucks. And meanwhile tricky skills, whom I respect as a great journalist....



Whose the "we"?


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## Gramsci (Oct 25, 2018)

Angellic said:


> The Queen of The Netherlands in Pop Brixton. No relation to Elli Popp, AFAIK.



I saw her near Buckingham palace. The police motorcycle escorts stopped the traffic so her cars could go past unhindered. She must have been on her way to Brixton. Me and my cyclist friend endured this.

Aristocracy can go around London without dealing with traffic.

In the photo you can see who the aristocracy is. They are wearing hats. Though hers looks like a "fascinator".

There is one aristocratic parisite beside her and one in background.

I really resent these wealthy scumbag aristocracy coming here.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 25, 2018)

Angellic said:


> The Queen of The Netherlands in Pop Brixton. No relation to Elli Popp, AFAIK.



The Queen is Argentinian. She is from wealthy landed family. What an Argentinian friend of mine would call the oligarchs.

Her marriage into Netherlands royal family caused controversy due to her families involvement in a right wing military junta during the Argentinian "dirty war" when leftists and Peronists were murdered.



> The news of the couple's relationship and eventual marriage plans caused controversy in the Netherlands, due to the involvement of Máxima's father Jorge Zorreguieta as a cabinet minister during the National Reorganization Process, the most recent Argentinian dictatorship. Her father's tenure as a minister took place during the beginning stages of the Dirty War, a period of repression that saw 10,000–30,000 people killed or disappeared during the seven-year military regime. At the request of the States General, Michiel Baud, a Dutch professor in Latin American studies, carried out an inquiry into the involvement of Zorreguieta in the Dirty War (roughly, 1974–83). Zorreguieta claimed that, as a civilian, he was unaware of the Dirty War while he was a cabinet minister.




Queen Máxima of the Netherlands - Wikipedia

So her family were supporters of right wing military government as wealthy old landed gentry ( gentry equal oligarchs in South America) to protect there social position. 

Hardly surprise when she came to Europe she fell in with European aristocracy.


----------



## Angellic (Oct 25, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I saw her near Buckingham palace. The police motorcycle escorts stopped the traffic so her cars could go past unhindered. She must have been on her way to Brixton. Me and my cyclist friend endured this.
> 
> Aristocracy can go around London without dealing with traffic.
> 
> ...



Hat or fascinator. I can't decide.


----------



## MissL (Oct 25, 2018)

Angellic said:


> The Queen of The Netherlands in Pop Brixton. No relation to Elli Popp, AFAIK.



I passed there yesterday morning and heard someone ask one of the policemen why the road was blocked and who was coming. The policeman replied Tyson. Mike Tyson. WTF?


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2018)

More DJs in the village! I was asked to get involved but declined. 



> Alistair Maddox, Hondo Enterprises’ director of Brixton Village, added: “We’re excited to have Chris and Cyndi on board to help shape our music programming. Both have an encyclopaedic music knowledge, having been at the forefront of independent music promotion in London for nearly two decades.
> 
> "There has always been ad hoc music from tenants over the years – but this is the first time in Brixton Village’s 81-year history that a music programme has been created for the market as a whole; we immediately recognised the benefits this could bring to visitors and the local community. We’re looking forward to building on Brixton’s deep-rooted music heritage as we officially kick-off the series this week.”



A new series of DJ sets and live music is coming to Brixton Village


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 25, 2018)

Hope Jerry's flashy new flats next door are sound-proofed.


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> Hope Jerry's flashy new flats next door are sound-proofed.


Unlikely given the complaints that have been generated by well-heeled blow-ins in his pricey flats on Coldharbour Lane. 

Truth is, it's not the nu-residents who are wholly responsible for killing off the clubs and bars with noise complaints. It's the greedy developers who don't give a fuck whose livelihoods they threaten when they're busy building flats right next to established venues.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 25, 2018)

editor said:


> It says that she's donating 50% of the PROFITS.



I don't think you understand small business do you?  You do know that profits are the bits left over, that you live on right?


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I don't think you understand small business do you?  You do know that profits are the bits left over, that you live on right?


Really? I never knew that before.

And in the context of this particular discussion and these charity prints with my uncredited work on them? Actually, no don't bother


----------



## discobastard (Oct 25, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> From the school of thought that assumes people are just a bit crap rather than actively wicked. She tried to do something kind, which backfired spectacularly due to not crossing the i’s and crossing the t’s. it bugs me that me that we hold individuals, trying to help their communities up to the standards of large corporations with marketing departments- and find them lacking.



Thanks for adding more context to the discussion and the point you make above is one that many don't seem to understand.  Intent will be decided upon for you and you will be judged accordingly.
Also interesting that no mention of the offered reparation was made here.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 25, 2018)

editor said:


> Really? I never knew that before.
> 
> And in the context of this particular discussion and these charity prints with my uncredited work on them? Actually, no don't bother



What of the apology and offered reparation?  Are you rejecting all that in a fit of picque?


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Thanks for adding more context to the discussion and the point you make above is one that many don't seem to understand.  Intent will be decided upon for you and you will be judged accordingly.
> Also interesting that no mention of the offered reparation was made here.


That's because_ I hadn't received the response at that time_. Sorry if that spoils your plans to keep this argument going. 

I've now spoken to the artist and said she can keep using the image so long as she gives any monies due to me to a local charity.


----------



## organicpanda (Oct 25, 2018)

editor said:


> More DJs in the village! I was asked to get involved but declined.
> 
> 
> 
> A new series of DJ sets and live music is coming to Brixton Village


not a curated set! hell/handcart


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 25, 2018)

editor said:


> More DJs in the village! I was asked to get involved but declined


Fair enough if you'd rather not say, but why did you decline ?


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Fair enough if you'd rather not say, but why did you decline ?


A whole load of reasons starting with not wanting to be associated with or hired by a Countryside Alliance-supporting billionaire socialite, not wanting to be part of something that attempts to make the village look 'cool and edgy and vibrant,' not wanting to play to a load of tourists wandering by and - ultimately - I think playing in a foodie/hipster-luring fucking shopping arcade is a really naff and soul destroying thing to do. I DJ for fun. I'm struggling to find any fun to be found here, no matter how much cash was on offer.


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 25, 2018)

Strange that No Long Ting that Hanson Family have run there don't encounter those problems (billionaire socialites aside).


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 25, 2018)

Don't look now, but there's a 'cheese and wine bar' opening up oppersite the barrier block.


----------



## organicpanda (Oct 25, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Don't look now, but there's a 'cheese and wine bar' opening up oppersite the barrier block.


breakfast of champions apparently


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 25, 2018)

editor said:


> A whole load of reasons starting with not wanting to be associated with or hired by a Countryside Alliance-supporting billionaire socialite, not wanting to be part of something that attempts to make the village look 'cool and edgy and vibrant,' not wanting to play to a load of tourists wandering by and - ultimately - I think playing in a foodie/hipster-luring fucking shopping arcade is a really naff and soul destroying thing to do. I DJ for fun. I'm struggling to find any fun to be found here, no matter how much cash was on offer.



I'm gonna give it a go....there's still a couple of original shop owners who I like. I also like Cyndi, and she asked me nicely, and I was actually quite suprised to be asked at all if I am honest....

I'll see how it goes...if it ain't for me I won't do it again.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 25, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Strange that No Long Ting that Hanson Family have run there don't encounter those problems (billionaire socialites aside).


Edited".....Wasnt that pop Brixton  ?


----------



## aka (Oct 25, 2018)

“I'll see how it goes...if it ain't for me I won't do it again.”

Common sense, simple common sense.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 25, 2018)

aka said:


> Common sense, simple common sense.


^In a Brummie-via-brixton accent?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 25, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Edited".....Wasnt that pop Brixton  ?



Yep....but they used to do stuff in the village a few years back


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Strange that No Long Ting that Hanson Family have run there don't encounter those problems (billionaire socialites aside).


I know them well and had a good chat with them about this - in fact, they were the people who invited me to take part. They respected my opinions on the matter, just like I respected theirs, so I'm failing to see what point it is you're trying to make here, unless you think it's 'strange' that not everyone thinks alike.


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I'm gonna give it a go....there's still a couple of original shop owners who I like. I also like Cyndi, and she asked me nicely, and I was actually quite suprised to be asked at all if I am honest....
> 
> I'll see how it goes...if it ain't for me I won't do it again.


Good luck with it!  Cyndi's a good 'un all right.

Over the years I've passed plenty of DJs playing in the Village and not once have I ever thought, "I'd fancy a go at that," but if it works for you, get in!


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 25, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Strange that No Long Ting that Hanson Family have run there don't encounter those problems (billionaire socialites aside).



You think so? When I talked to them quite some time ago I got the impression they had mixed feelings about what happened to Brixton Village.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 25, 2018)

I hardly ever go to Brixton Village now. What's the point? Its not for me.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 25, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Don't look now, but there's a 'cheese and wine bar' opening up oppersite the barrier block.



What's been happening to that row of shops opposite Barrier block has been coming up on Coldharbour thread.

I used to see it as buffer between Nu Brixton and Loughborough Junction.

Its been gradually gentrified. What is interesting about that row of shops is that usual arguments don't apply.

This was working class row of shops. No bohemian element / first wave pioneers ever came there. This is straightforward replacement of working class.

Take George the barber for example. Who I used for years. Down to earth working class Barber.

With the new flats behind almost finished the wine and cheese bar should work.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 25, 2018)

editor said:


> That's because_ I hadn't received the response at that time_. Sorry if that spoils your plans to keep this argument going. [emoji57]
> 
> I've now spoken to the artist and said she can keep using the image so long as she gives any monies due to me to a local charity.



I don’t have plans to keep any argument going.  

*You* made this a very public dispute. And so next time,  if you have an issue, why not work it out with the individual in question like an adult instead of attacking them in a public forum.  

If you don’t want people like me contributing then don’t put it out there in the first place, eh?


----------



## discobastard (Oct 25, 2018)

editor said:


> That's because_ I hadn't received the response at that time_. Sorry if that spoils your plans to keep this argument going.
> 
> I've now spoken to the artist and said she can keep using the image so long as she gives any monies due to me to a local charity.


One wonders if it couldn’t have been sorted out more generously in the first place.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2018)

discobastard said:


> *You* made this a very public dispute. And so next time,  if you have an issue, why not work it out with the individual in question like an adult instead of attacking them in a public forum.


I made it public because I wanted people to publicly  - as in the posters here - know that I was unhappy about my work appearing in public as publicity for a luxury goods artist. I should never have had to raise the topic in the first place and you certainly didn't have to engage - and I definitely didn't ask for your opinion on the topic. But right now. you're the only one_ still_ going on and on about it long after it's all been settled. Why is that?


Gramsci said:


> I hardly ever go to Brixton Village now. What's the point? Its not for me.


There's nothing for me there any more, apart from the chance to chat to a few shopkeepers I know as I walk through.


----------



## madolesance (Oct 26, 2018)

Comedy at the Effra Social was exelent tonight and free entry. Some great young, inspiring comedians.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2018)

madolesance said:


> Comedy at the Effra Social was exelent tonight and free entry. Some great young, inspiring comedians.


I've got a great local act playing live there tomorrow too!


----------



## discobastard (Oct 26, 2018)

editor said:


> I made it public because I wanted people to publicly  - as in the posters here - know that I was unhappy about my work appearing in public as publicity for a luxury goods artist. I should never have had to raise the topic in the first place and you certainly didn't have to engage - and I definitely didn't ask for your opinion on the topic.



Again. If you don’t want people to engage, then don’t post about it in a public forum.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Again. If you don’t want people to engage, then don’t post about it in a public forum.


Happy to have people engage, not happy to have someone still trying to pick the scabs and extract point-scoring mileage _long_ after the matter has been settled. Its disruptive and dull. Move on, FFS.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2018)

Keep 'em peeled: The Victoria line is ranked as the third most dangerous tube line in London for picketpockets


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2018)

Amen

"Real local journalism costs money to produce, it should be paid for, and there should be no excuses for stealing content."


----------



## clandestino (Oct 28, 2018)

editor said:


> Good luck with it!  Cyndi's a good 'un all right.
> 
> Over the years I've passed plenty of DJs playing in the Village and not once have I ever thought, "I'd fancy a go at that," but if it works for you, get in!



I think it could be fun. It's nice to be able to play music you like without the pressure of making people dance. There's something lovely about sharing music that isn't danceable - like you're passing it on.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 28, 2018)

clandestino said:


> I think it could be fun. It's nice to be able to play music you like without the pressure of making people dance. There's something lovely about sharing music that isn't danceable - like you're passing it on.



It will be danceable....they  just might not dance...


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2018)

clandestino said:


> I think it could be fun. It's nice to be able to play music you like without the pressure of making people dance. There's something lovely about sharing music that isn't danceable - like you're passing it on.


I always feel really sorry for the DJs they have by the entrance to Top Shop on Oxford Street, being ignored by hundreds of people every hour - and they play dance music. 

I can definitely see the appeal in playing more esoteric/obscure/mellow music to passing folk in the right environment, but I don't think I'd have much to give to the heaving crowds of ambling foodies, champagne and fromage grazers, hipsters and tourists that pick into the Village at weekends, neither have I ever much felt the urge to tarry there.


----------



## clandestino (Oct 28, 2018)

editor said:


> I always feel really sorry for the DJs they have by the entrance to Top Shop on Oxford Street, being ignored by hundreds of people every hour - and they play dance music.
> 
> I can definitely see the appeal in playing more esoteric/obscure/mellow music to passing folk in the right environment, but I don't think I'd have much to give to the heaving crowds of ambling foodies, champagne and fromage grazers, hipsters and tourists that pick into the Village at weekends, neither have I ever much felt the urge to tarry there.



They should book me, so I can play all three Haiku Salut albums. That's a two and a half hour set right there. Bring a box of records to sell too - job done!


----------



## theboris (Oct 29, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> The Queen is Argentinian. She is from wealthy landed family. What an Argentinian friend of mine would call the oligarchs.
> 
> Her marriage into Netherlands royal family caused controversy due to her families involvement in a right wing military junta during the Argentinian "dirty war" when leftists and Peronists were murdered.
> 
> ...


----------



## theboris (Oct 29, 2018)

Surely Queen Maxima is the name of a drag act


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2018)

clandestino said:


> They should book me, so I can play all three Haiku Salut albums. That's a two and a half hour set right there. Bring a box of records to sell too - job done!


You'd have to turn it up very loud to get over all the braying, slurping and nomming.

I'm curious how this is going to work though because there's already several units playing music - and in the past people complained about live music. Is the rich socialite just going to force the music on the place now?

And I hope it's not the DJ spot I saw going there last week in the courtyard facing Coldharbour Lane because that looked fucking grim - and is close to the spot where the guys from Kaff got closed down because of noise complaints from nu-residents.


----------



## organicpanda (Oct 29, 2018)

personally I'd play the Portsmouth Sinfonia full blast on loop


----------



## clandestino (Oct 29, 2018)

I meant to ask this last week. Anyone know what's happened to Yum D, the amazing little Thai restaurant that was on Market Row? Are they shut for good or have they moved to different premises? I hope it's the latter - it was my favourite place to eat in Brixton. Small, friendly, affordable, very DIY, seemed to be family run, and gorgeous food. I'm really gutted it's closed.


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2018)

clandestino said:


> I meant to ask this last week. Anyone know what's happened to Yum D, the amazing little Thai restaurant that was on Market Row? Are they shut for good or have they moved to different premises? I hope it's the latter - it was my favourite place to eat in Brixton. Small, friendly, affordable, very DIY, seemed to be family run, and gorgeous food. I'm really gutted it's closed.


The unofficial FB page stops in August and the website is dead 
Yum-D - London, United Kingdom - Restaurant | Facebook


----------



## northeast (Oct 29, 2018)

clandestino said:


> I meant to ask this last week. Anyone know what's happened to Yum D, the amazing little Thai restaurant that was on Market Row? Are they shut for good or have they moved to different premises? I hope it's the latter - it was my favourite place to eat in Brixton. Small, friendly, affordable, very DIY, seemed to be family run, and gorgeous food. I'm really gutted it's closed.



Was thinking the same ....real shame if it's gone for good. Went few weeks back and was busy.


----------



## northeast (Oct 29, 2018)

Wonder when the Nu Town Hall is going to rent out it's commercial properties, seen for lease signs on its coffee shop and restaurant spaces but no takers it seems....the project loosing more money do doubt.


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2018)

So Brixton has a fencing club now, with Bowie on the homepage.

£300/year membership or £90 for two months.

http://www.brixtonsabre.com/

As is usual these days for every new Brixton business, the news came from a PR company.


----------



## CH1 (Oct 29, 2018)

editor said:


> View attachment 151127
> So Brixton has a fencing club now, with Bowie on the homepage.
> £300/year membership or £90 for two months.
> Brixton Sabre Fencing Club
> As is usual these days for every new Brixton business, the news came from a PR company.


Fencing/duelling. Going to be a bit dépassé in this era of Brexit.
These are French/Prussian pursuits. Even Mutti Merkle is on her way out!


----------



## clandestino (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> View attachment 151127
> 
> So Brixton has a fencing club now, with Bowie on the homepage.
> 
> ...



I wonder if they asked permission from the Bowie mural artist to use his artwork?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 30, 2018)




----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

More here - Brixton Sabre Fencing Club launches, with prices at £300/year membership or £90 for two months beginner’s course

There's no concession rates offered.


----------



## T & P (Oct 30, 2018)

Oh noes! They drink at Pop Brixton!


----------



## discobastard (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> More here - Brixton Sabre Fencing Club launches, with prices at £300/year membership or £90 for two months beginner’s course
> 
> There's no concession rates offered.


That’s really good value for money. With all equipment and insurance included, a £300 a year membership means you could fence once a week for just over a fiver.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

discobastard said:


> That’s really good value for money. With all equipment and insurance included, a £300 a year membership means you could fence once a week for just over a fiver.


If you've got £300 to spare and can make it every single week. So, no opinion about the lack of concession rates?


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

T & P said:


> Oh noes! They drink at Pop Brixton!


Perfect fit.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> If you've got £300 to spare and can make it every single week. So, no opinion about the lack of concession rates?


No opinion about all equipment insurance and teaching being provided for around £6 an hour?  How much should it be in your opinion?


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

discobastard said:


> No opinion about all equipment insurance and teaching being provided for around £6 an hour?  How much should it be in your opinion?


If you take the one-off session for £13 you don't coaching or insurance. That's only provided if you shell out a minimum of £90.

I'm sure that's all very affordable for some, but given the fact that they're operating in a poor area, I find the lack of any concessions very disappointing, and something that only echoes and underlines the growing social divisions in the area. Does that not bother you at all?

Anyway, they should be grateful for the free publicity I've given them.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 30, 2018)

"south London desperately needs a dedicated place where sabreurs can go to train, fence each other and have lessons"

South London desperately needs plenty of things, but I'm not sure a dedicated place for Sabreurs is top of any list.....


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

And here's some photos from our Market House Halloween party where people not only got in free, but had a free drink too!





















In photos: Brixton Buzz Halloween party at Brixton’s Market House, Sat  27th Oct 2018


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> And here's some photos from our Market House Halloween party where people not only got in free, but had a free drink too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And hands up if you turned up on Friday by mistake.....


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> More here - Brixton Sabre Fencing Club launches, with prices at £300/year membership or £90 for two months beginner’s course
> 
> There's no concession rates offered.



Its also using the Brixton Rec. Which is supposedly public building not a private business.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Its also using the Brixton Rec. Which is supposedly public building not a private business.


Yep.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> If you take the one-off session for £13 you don't coaching or insurance. That's only provided if you shell out a minimum of £90.
> 
> I'm sure that's all very affordable for some, but given the fact that they're operating in a poor area, I find the lack of any concessions very disappointing, and something that only echoes and underlines the growing social divisions in the area. Does that not bother you at all?
> 
> Anyway, they should be grateful for the free publicity I've given them.



For me its the affordability issue. This is taking place in Brixton Rec. Its not going to be affordable for a lot of young people.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> And hands up if you turned up on Friday by mistake.....


Ooops!

Some friends of mine did that last time. It was a birthday night so they all turned up well 'lubricated' only to find they weren't on the guest list. Then they rang me up and realised their party-crushing blunder!


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

This band are fantastic! At the Effra Social this Friday, onstage 10pm - free entry all night







Freaky Louisiana-style ragtime punk and Brixton Buzz DJs at the Effra Social, Fri 2nd Nov – free!


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 30, 2018)

Haven't they been there for a few years already? They're not exactly new... it's a sports club, not a private business. 

I imagine it's a spin off or a splinter group from: Brixton Fencing Club


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Haven't they been there for a few years already? They're not exactly new... it's a sports club, not a private business.
> 
> I imagine it's a spin off or a splinter group from: Brixton Fencing Club


I don't think so as their domains are registered differently and I can't see any mention of Marc Lepere on that other site. And you'd think they'd mention it if they were part of the same thing, no?

Edit: I wonder if it is this Marc who has some very on-trend sounding businesses. 

Marc Lepere


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

Did anyone know Jonathan Shay who used to hang out outside Cafe Max? He's the guy who killed Gerry Gaffney and he used to wear a bowler hat and was apparently known as 'The Fancy Man.'



> A lighting rigger was stabbed to death after rowing with a paranoid schizophrenic dubbed ‘The Fancy Man’ because of his eccentric fashion sense, a court heard. Jonathan Shay, 53, repeatedly knifed Gerry Gaffney, 46, in the chest in Vassall Road, Brixton, southwest London, shortly before 9pm on 13 May. Shay, 53, is said to have struck Mr Gaffney in the face during an earlier confrontation then stabbed him as the argument continued in a communal hallway.
> Lighting rigger 'knifed to death by paranoid schizophrenic' - Court News UK



A friend who knew Jerry is at the trial now and has asked if anyone has a picture of the murderer (he wants to show it to a friend to see if they knew him).


----------



## alcopop (Oct 30, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Its also using the Brixton Rec. Which is supposedly public building not a private business.


Presumably they are paying the rec for hiring the space


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> Did anyone know Jonathan Shay who used to hang out outside Cafe Max? He's the guy who killed Gerry Gaffney and he used to wear a bowler hat and was apparently known as 'The Fancy man.



Didn't know him but used to see him around and about quite a bit, he wore a few extravagant outfits, the bowler hat look was one such.


----------



## BusLanes (Oct 30, 2018)

I actually met a fencer (no link to Brixton) at a pub in central London over the weekend and he'd just purchased a fencing glove, as apparently the best ones are made in London (he's not from London).


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Didn't know him but used to see him around and about quite a bit, he wore a few extravagant outfits, the bowler hat look was one such.


I know someone who fits the description but I guess I'd need to see a photo to be sure. The whole thing is such a horrible tragedy.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

BusLanes said:


> I actually met a fencer (no link to Brixton) at a pub in central London over the weekend and he'd just purchased a fencing glove, as apparently the best ones are made in London (he's not from London).


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> I know someone who fits the description but I guess I'd need to see a photo to be sure. The whole thing is such a horrible tragedy.



Yeah very tragic, Jerry was well known in this neck of the woods and well liked by all. The guy we are discussing had a distinctive style don't want to post a description in public but will pm one if you want...


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Yeah very tragic, Jerry was well known in this neck of the woods and well liked by all. The guy we are discussing had a distinctive style don't want to post a description in public but will pm one if you want...


Thanks but I guess it will come out in time anyway.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> Thanks but I guess it will come out in time anyway.



Yeah feels a bit odd discussing it here.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> If you take the one-off session for £13 you don't coaching or insurance. That's only provided if you shell out a minimum of £90.
> 
> I'm sure that's all very affordable for some, but given the fact that they're operating in a poo area, I find the lack of any concessions very disappointing, and something that only echoes and underlines the growing social divisions in the area. Does that not bother you at all?
> 
> Anyway, they should be grateful for the free publicity I've given them.


I think that £90 for 8 x two hour lessons for beginners seems reasonable, given that £5.63 per hour including equipment, insurance and coaching seems like something that is good value and also something where they can cover their costs.  If you compare it to a lot of the other things going in on Brixton, like £50 for a gin tasting, then yes, it's pretty decent.  And more constructive.

At the same time, maybe they could offer concessions to certain people.  Why don't you ask them?  You're the one in touch and giving them free publicity.

Allowing people to pay in instalments would be reasonable rather than chucking £90 upfront.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 30, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Presumably they are paying the rec for hiring the space



What's that got to do with my post?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 30, 2018)

Can anyone recommend a GP surgery convenvenient for someone who is new to living in St Matthews estate? anywhere between Brixton and Vauxhall would be particularly handy (asking for a friend.) 
I know we chatted about Gp surgeries back in April and several people thought Brixton Hill Surgery was crap, and now Brixton Water lane surgery has gone. Local recommendations please.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

discobastard said:


> At the same time, maybe they could offer concessions to certain people.  Why don't you ask them?


What? It's not up to me to tell them how to organise the financial structure of their company. If they intentionally decide to exclude those on benefits and low income then that's _their _choice and they can be expected to be judged according by those who give a fuck about Brixton remaining an inclusive society.

And comparing them with an outrageously priced gin testing session is as ridiculous as it is irrelevant. But that's you all over - always finding feeble excuses for those incomers who are pricing out locals with unaffordable services and prices.

To be kind to you, maybe it's just because you simply have no understanding of the struggles that many families are having just to survive, let along fine hundreds of pounds to splash out on private sabre fencing classes.

Maybe this will help you understand: Norwood and Brixton Foodbank feed a record amount of people as hardship soars


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 30, 2018)

Re Fencing in Brixton Rec.

Ive no problem with fencing classes. So this isn't about inverse snobbery. I think it would be great if local youth had access to a sport like fencing.

My problem is that this is another example of how the Rec is gradually being moved away from the reason it was built.

I am a member of Brixton Rec Users Group committee. We did  along with others campaign to get the Rec listed. Successfully despite opposition from Council. It was Grade two listed. One reason was that it was example of post war socialist architecture.

I am personally rather concerned that the listing like the listing of covered markets is pyrrhic victory.

The Rec could go the way of the markets. Cost of it comes up with meetings of the Council/ Better. Met with same type of comments by officers/ Better as posted here.

The Rec could end up successfully catering for the new demographic ( with a few concessions). Leaving a lot of locals unable to afford it.

When the Rec was designed back in 70s ( it took years to get built) the vision was a place where all could mix.

Up to a point this still holds. But its not guaranteed.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 30, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Can anyone recommend a GP surgery convenvenient for someone who is new to living in St Matthews estate? anywhere between Brixton and Vauxhall would be particularly handy (asking for a friend.)
> I know we chatted about Gp surgeries back in April and several people thought Brixton Hill Surgery was crap, and now Brixton Water lane surgery has gone. Local recommendations please.



Stockwell Group practice are very good ( when u can get appointment). But catchment area is quite strict. So would have to visit them and ask.


----------



## ricbake (Oct 30, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Can anyone recommend a GP surgery convenvenient for someone who is new to living in St Matthews estate? anywhere between Brixton and Vauxhall would be particularly handy (asking for a friend.)
> I know we chatted about Gp surgeries back in April and several people thought Brixton Hill Surgery was crap, and now Brixton Water lane surgery has gone. Local recommendations please.


We get excellent service from Vassall Medical Centre but it often takes a week to get an appointment. There are daily appointments you can get with an early morning call if you catch the front of the queue. Once you have an appointment they are efficient friendly caring and helpful.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

Anyone know the story behind this latest 'iconic'/Instagrammable mural?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 30, 2018)

That will cheer up that dull alley nicely. And its so much better than the crap Bowie one. 

Who is calling it 'Iconic'? if its only you please stop it straight away.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 30, 2018)

theboris said:


> Surely Queen Maxima is the name of a drag act



Yeah does sound like that. 

You post did make me laugh.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> That will cheer up that dull alley nicely. And its so much better than the crap Bowie one.
> 
> Who is calling it 'Iconic'? if its only you please stop it straight away.


Ten quid says that it'll soon be featured in tourist websites and trendy 'where to go' guides.


----------



## fishfinger (Oct 30, 2018)

editor said:


> Ten quid says that it'll soon be featured in tourist websites and trendy 'where to go' guides.


This is not just an iconic mural - it's a Marks & Spencer iconic mural.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 30, 2018)

It's Michelle Obama, apparently - the guy who did it was working in it all last week, was interesting to see the progress and how layered the colours, etc. It's nicer than the manky old tags that were there before.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> It's Michelle Obama, apparently - the guy who did it was working in it all last week, was interesting to see the progress and how layered the colours, etc. It's nicer than the manky old tags that were there before.


Oh, I really like the work and the artist, Neequaye Dreph Dsane (aka Dreph).


----------



## alcopop (Oct 31, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> What's that got to do with my post?


I’m sure you can work it out


----------



## alcopop (Oct 31, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> That will cheer up that dull alley nicely. And its so much better than the crap Bowie one.
> 
> Who is calling it 'Iconic'? if its only you please stop it straight away.


I think they are both crap tbh


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 31, 2018)

editor said:


> Anyone know the story behind this latest 'iconic'/Instagrammable mural?
> 
> View attachment 151239


looks similar in style to a mural in dalston


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 31, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> looks similar in style to a mural in dalston
> 
> View attachment 151293


True but that is "hip hop raised me" by Carleen de Sozer
New Carleen De Sozer Street Art “Hip Hop Raised Me” In Dalston


----------



## theboris (Oct 31, 2018)

Olive Morris highlighted on BBC page on Black History Month:The black history you might not learn at school


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

Coming up - Windrush Generations film screenings announced in London in Nov/Dec 2018


----------



## blameless77 (Oct 31, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> For me its the affordability issue. This is taking place in Brixton Rec. Its not going to be affordable for a lot of young people.



There's a depressingly limited selection of affordable activities at the Rec for young people, with most of their focus apparently on providing leisure activities for the affluent.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

blameless77 said:


> There's a depressingly limited selection of affordable activities at the Rec for young people, with most of their focus apparently on providing leisure activities for the affluent.


And with more and more space being given up to private enterprises, I imagine there's going to be even less on offer in the future.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

Interesting comment on Instagram


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 31, 2018)

editor said:


> And with more and more space being given up to private enterprises, I imagine there's going to be even less on offer in the future.


Have you confirmed that they're a private company and not a sports club?

They're affiliated to their National Governing Body (Home - BRITISH FENCING) which would imply they're a not for profit sports club.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Have you confirmed that they're a private company and not a sports club?
> 
> They're affiliated to their National Governing Body (Home - BRITISH FENCING) which would imply they're a not for profit sports club.


I've got better things to do than chase them up, but I'm not sure why affiliation with British Fencing should signify anything seeing as they're a private company and not a charity.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

This is a great free night







Brixton Newschool showcases upcoming talent for free, every Thursday night at the Dogstar


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 31, 2018)

You're claiming that they're a private company, taking up space in a public building - which is incorrect. 

Brit Fencing are a "company limited by guarantee" - that doesn't mean they're a private company - we've been through this before. 

As a company limited by guarantee their directors are legally liable for the activity they do. They can't make any "profit" - or share any profits amongst themselves. All profits are restricted to the promotion of their articles and objects - ie. fencing - which sits under the 4th head of charity.  The equivalent is Oxfam the delivery charity and Oxfam Co Limited by a Guarantee who operate Oxfam shops... 

About British Fencing - BRITISH FENCING

British Fencing (BF) is the National Governing Body (NGB) for the Olympic Sport of Fencing in the British Isles (excluding the Republic of Ireland)

British Fencing is a company limited by guarantee no 1917099. Registered in England & Wales. VAT registration 226658348

The work of BF is overseen by a Board of Directors led by an Independent Chair.  BF has a President, appointed by the Board and ratified by the BF meets all the governance requirements laid out by the Sports Governance code which describes the required governance structure and governance activities that must be undertaken by a National Governing Body.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> You're claiming that they're a private company, taking up space in a public building - which is incorrect.


I didn't actually refer to them in my original post, but I was under the impression that more private companies are getting involved with the Rec.

Of course, the real issue is one of _affordability_, given that the Rec is supposed to be for all the community - not many folks on my estate can splash out £300 a year to send their young ones sabre fencing.

What do you think about the lack of concessions offered?

Oh and if you're up on company stuff, what's your take on how Brixton Wave have somehow ended up having three quarters of a million in the bank?


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

I'm hearing some quite astonishing news from the trial of the murder of Gerry Gaffrey:



A friend said: 


> Unbelievable, shocking and scary. The jury have set the man who killed Gerry free.
> Tomorrow he will be walking the streets of Brixton and living meters away from Gerry’s wife and daughter.
> Disgraceful. Shame on The jurors



I've asked how the hell this can be. Will report back when I get more info.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 31, 2018)

editor said:


> I've got better things to do than chase them up, but I'm not sure why affiliation with British Fencing should signify anything seeing as they're a private company and not a charity.



You've always got better things to do than check your facts.



snowy_again said:


> You're claiming that they're a private company, taking up space in a public building - which is incorrect.
> 
> As a company limited by guarantee their directors are legally liable for the activity they do. They can't make any "profit" - or share any profits amongst themselves. All profits are restricted to the promotion of their articles and objects - ie. fencing - which sits under the 4th head of charity.  The equivalent is Oxfam the delivery charity and Oxfam Co Limited by a Guarantee who operate Oxfam shops....





editor said:


> I didn't actually refer to them in my original post, but I was under the impression that more private companies are getting involved with the Rec.
> 
> Of course, the real issue is one of _affordability_, given that the Rec is supposed to be for all the community - not many folks on my estate can splash out £300 a year to send their young ones sabre fencing.
> 
> What do you think about the lack of concessions offered?



Probably worth interjecting here with some sanity to say that after a very polite and simple email exchange last night/early this morning (which took about 30 seconds), the fencing club WILL apparently be offering concessions.  Something that I communicated to editor early today, but which doesn’t seem to have made its way into this discussion.  I don’t know why, probably simple human error, we all make mistakes eh.

And all after he was so kind and tried to explain to me what a Food Bank was.  I know what Food Banks are.  But we're not talking about Food Banks are we?  We're talking about a fencing club.

In fact, _per hour_, the eight week introductory course will in fact be (as much as I've been told) apparently* cheaper* than the current concessionary prices at Brixton Rec for squash and badminton, including equipment, insurance and coaching.



I’m not posting up what they told me because it was a private email exchange and I’m not one for exposing private communications to all and sundry. And I don’t want to speak for an organisation that I have no affiliation with.  I’ve only had a very brief email exchange as opposed to writing a feature on them and not clarifying my facts and then claiming that I'm not responsible for that.

But they sound like they are very inclusive and keen to get people participating.  They are just launching and so trying to finalise everything, as opposed to being a bunch of chiselling bastards that don’t care about the wider community.

Yes, this may be flannel but it seems legit to me and I wish them all the best.

Never have windmills been tilted at so furiously, eh? So maybe we can put this bullshit to bed.  Remember folks, don’t believe everything you read on here!

And I’m done.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Probably worth interjecting here with some sanity to say that after a very polite and simple email exchange last night/early this morning (which took about 30 seconds), the fencing club WILL apparently be offering concessions.  Something that I communicated to editor early today, but which doesn’t seem to have made its way into this discussion.  I don’t know why, probably simple human error, we all make mistakes eh.


Err, because  - as I told you in our _private conversation_ - the new gym on Brixton Road promised the exact same thing and guess what? Nothing fucking happened. And it's not the first time I've been fed the same bullshit when I've gone out of my way to ask businesses about these details.

And while I understand that you're always eager to make excuses for these pricey new businesses rolling into town, could you perhaps come up with a plausible explanation why concessions weren't offered at the start, and included in the press release that came from their PR agency? Are those on low wages and benefits somehow less important?

And even after your letter was sent, there's still no concessions listed on their website. I wonder why it's all taking so long?


----------



## alcopop (Oct 31, 2018)

£300 a year is less than £1 a day!


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

Some interesting reading:


> *London*
> London has the highest rates of child poverty in the UK with 39% (after housing costs) of children and young people living in poverty compared with 31% nationally.
> 
> London's Poverty Profile site
> ...


Poverty


----------



## discobastard (Oct 31, 2018)

editor said:


> Err, because  - as I told you in our _private conversation_ - the new gym on Brixton Road promised the exact same thing and guess what? Nothing fucking happened.
> 
> And while I understand that you're always eager to make excuses for these pricey new businesses rolling into town, could you perhaps come up with a plausible explanation why concessions weren't offered at the start, and included in the press release that came from their PR agency?
> 
> ...



I haven't mentioned our _private conversation_.  If you would like to post it up then please feel free.  

I prefer to accept what people say.  I received a very enthusiastic and pleasant reply.  They are still finalising everything because things take time?  Who knows.  But calling them out when they have been very clear about their plans for concessions smacks of somebody _desperate _to find fault with them.

Your argument is dwindling.

Here we go:

Brixton Buzz takes the time to write about an article about a (relatively cheap, compared to other activities in Brixton) new club
Brixton Buzz makes a deal out of them not offering concessions
Regular poster highlights that what is on offer is relatively cheap per hour
Regular poster suggests that maybe having a conversation with fencing club re possible concessions might be a good idea, given they have written an article about them

Forum administrator claims that fencing is out of the reach of the lower income demographic and suggests that the poster in question doesn't understand how difficult it is for everybody because Food Banks
Regular poster sends private message suggesting they know a lot about Food Banks and perhaps the forum administrator should consider using their influence to ask about the possibility of concessions given they have influence and it is relatively easy to do
Forum administrator suggests (even though they have written an article about said club) that they are not responsible for doing the club's PR and that if they were doing concessions they they should have done it quicker. And that they couldn't give a shit about contacting the club re concessions
Regular poster spends 30 seconds writing an email to the fencing club asking about whether they are going offer concessions
Regular poster receives very pleasant email outlining the concessionary rates that are cheaper than most other activities at Broixon Rec
Regular poster tells forum administrator privately that concessions are available
Forum administrator effectively tells regular poster to fuck off because concessions have come too late and that there must be a reason why the concessions haven't been worked out yet - probably because they are back-pedalling.  Even though the concessions are clearly laid out (don't for the sake of god try and tell me that because I hadn't told told you what the concessions were that you you didn't know - I can see that coming)
Regular poster calls forum administrator out on their bullshit
Forum administrator dies on their arse and (untruthfully) suggests on an open board that the fencing club is not offering concessionary rates, even though they were told  that they will be doing so
Not sure where else to go with this.  I'm done.  Though you are welcome to make up some lies about it all.  Doesn't really matter does it?  But you've done a great job of dissing an affordable and interesting opportunity.

Goodbye and goodnight.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2018)

Remind me about the 'deal' Brixton Buzz made about the lack of concessions offered .

Can you do that please? Feel free to quote the entire damning passage if you like.

Looking forward to it:


----------



## discobastard (Oct 31, 2018)

editor said:


> Remind me about the 'deal' Brixton Buzz made about the lack of concessions offered .
> 
> Can you do that please? Feel free to quote the entire damning passage if you like.
> 
> Looking forward to it:



No idea what you’re on about. 

Please feel free to ignore everything I’ve said. 

Never apologise, never explain eh?

You’ve been doing this too long.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 31, 2018)

discobastard said:


> No idea what you’re on about.
> 
> Please feel free to ignore everything I’ve said.
> 
> ...


Btw, any ‘deal’ made by Brixton Buzz means fuck all, as I’m sure is clear [emoji1360]

Never, ever, admit you’re wrong.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 1, 2018)

A seasonal Facebook wag posted this


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 1, 2018)

alcopop said:


> I’m sure you can work it out



I will be doing that.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 1, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Have you confirmed that they're a private company and not a sports club?
> 
> They're affiliated to their National Governing Body (Home - BRITISH FENCING) which would imply they're a not for profit sports club.



I would have thought you would realise "not for profit" are meaningless terms now. GLL/ Better are "not for profit". Its bollox. 

All "not for profit" means is that profits don't go to shareholders. It doesn't mean they are caring sharing.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 1, 2018)

editor said:


> Interesting comment on Instagram




This really annoys me. What has Michelle Obama got to do with Brixton?

She was wife of President Obama. What did he do for black people?

Nothing.

She is part of the establishment. Good luck to her but nothing to do with Black working class population of Brixton.


----------



## madolesance (Nov 1, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm hearing some quite astonishing news from the trial of the murder of Gerry Gaffrey:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The justice system just failed us all today.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 1, 2018)

editor said:


> Interesting comment on Instagram




And I agree with the comment. I'm sick of American politics being  thrown at this country.

Americans should sort out their own country. I don't need her face in Brixton.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 1, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> And I agree with the comment. I'm sick of American politics being  thrown at this country. Americans should sort out their own country. I don't need her face in Brixton.


Coming as I do from 10 miles from the epicentre of US Nuclear forces ("RAF" Mildenhall and "RAF" Lakenheath), I'm inclined to agree. The way things are at present a total refurb of the "Nuclear Dawn" mural might be apposite.

Meanwhile maybe there might be a case for time-limiting promotional murals. Or holding a plebicite.

I do recall as a much younger person travelling by bus every day past the famous Alvin Stardust mural in Heywood Lancs. Alvin Stardust had nothing to do with Heywood, or Lancashire, but locals seemed to like it. Still there as far as I know.

"In the early ’70s a Rochdale-based artist named Walter Kershaw rode his motorbike to the small town of Heywood on the peripheries of Greater Manchester to paint a large portrait of Elvis Presley on the gable end of a terraced house. The owner of the house had no problem having their wall transformed into a shrine to The King, but unfortunately, no one in the area had a photograph of Elvis to hand.

The closest thing anyone had was a small picture of leather-clad chart-crooner Alvin Stardust. And so, only a day later, a brooding, slightly bizarre image of the man formerly known as Bernard William Jewry stared out onto Manchester Road."
Sam Waller *Through the Magpie Eye: Murals from the ’70s*


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 1, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I would have thought you would realise "not for profit" are meaningless terms now. GLL/ Better are "not for profit". Its bollox.  All "not for profit" means is that profits don't go to shareholders. It doesn't mean they are caring sharing.



Now you're moving the goal posts! 

Both the Sabre people and the fencing NGB were being incorrectly labelled as a private company taking up public space. I was simply pointing out that they aren't.  I wasn't commenting on how they operated. 

You've then moved to their behaviours and then compared a probably volunteer run local sports club to a creepy national provider. 

You're more than welcome to google the Sport England Code of Conduct that both the Sabre people and British Fencing (their NGB) adopt and implement. That will demonstrate how they have to behave to retain membership.


----------



## GarveyLives (Nov 1, 2018)

> I'm hearing some quite astonishing news from the trial of the murder of Gerry Gaffrey





> A friend said:
> 
> _Unbelievable, shocking and scary. The jury have set the man who killed Gerry free.
> Tomorrow he will be walking the streets of Brixton and living meters away from Gerry’s wife and daughter.
> ...





> The justice system just failed us all today.



53 year old paranoid schizophrenic, *Jonathan Shay* of Vassall Road, also known as ‘The Fancy Man’ because of his eccentric fashion sense, was put on trial for the murder of Mr Gaffrey last week, but there do no appear to be any reports of his trial at the Old Bailey.

I am sure that all concerned would welcome clarity on what transpired at the trial, which has clearly caused distress for the family of the victim.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Nov 1, 2018)

GarveyLives said:


> 53 year old paranoid schizophrenic, *Jonathan Shay* of Vassall Road, also known as ‘The Fancy Man’ because of his eccentric fashion sense, was put on trial for the murder of Mr Gaffrey last week, but there do no appear to be any reports of his trial at the Old Bailey.
> 
> I am sure that all concerned would welcome clarity on what transpired at the trial, which has clearly caused distress for the family of the victim.


I'd imagine "all concerned" such as his family and friends are well aware, and presumably don't want it dragged through the press.


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> I'd imagine "all concerned" such as his family and friends are well aware, and presumably don't want it dragged through the press.


Indeed. It's a truly shocking tale and a terrible result for the family.


----------



## ricbake (Nov 1, 2018)

editor said:


> Anyone know the story behind this latest 'iconic'/Instagrammable mural?
> 
> View attachment 151239


Penguin Random House are publishing Mrs Obama's book shortly and commissioned Dreph to create this interest.
There's a giant mural of Michelle Obama on an M&S in Brixton

Oh - Missed the follow up post of yesterday...


----------



## Rushy (Nov 1, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Penguin Random House are publishing Mrs Obama's book shortly and commissioned Dreph to create this interest.
> There's a giant mural of Michelle Obama on an M&S in Brixton
> 
> Oh - Missed the follow up post of yesterday...


I was wondering who that was this morning . 

I wonder what possessed them to choose that piss soaked back alley.


----------



## ricbake (Nov 1, 2018)

Rushy said:


> I was wondering who that was this morning .
> 
> I wonder what possessed them to choose that piss soaked back alley.


Must catch the eye of 10s of thousands of bus passengers


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Penguin Random House are publishing Mrs Obama's book shortly and commissioned Dreph to create this interest.
> There's a giant mural of Michelle Obama on an M&S in Brixton
> 
> Oh - Missed the follow up post of yesterday...


Yes, it's essentially a big advert.


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 1, 2018)

But a 'stunning' one?!


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> But a 'stunning' one?!


I think the artwork is quite stunning in its location, but I don't expect you or anyone else to agree on my every opinion on artworks.


----------



## RoyReed (Nov 1, 2018)

editor said:


> I think the artwork is quite stunning in its location, but I don't expect you or anyone else to agree on my every opinion on artworks.


It's OK, but I'm not blown away by it, and if there was going to be a large mural of an iconic black figure, I'd much rather have seen Mandela - at least he's been to Brixton.


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 1, 2018)

The ad has " created interest" on the normally sedate Facebook group
Memories of Brixton & Stockwell......200+ comments on the buzz article
...and now this.....


----------



## xsunnysuex (Nov 1, 2018)

I've heard tfl are proposing to end the 45 bus at Elephant & Castle.  Anyone heard this?


----------



## aka (Nov 1, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> I've heard tfl are proposing to end the 45 bus at Elephant & Castle.  Anyone heard this?


Going which way. ?


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 1, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> I've heard tfl are proposing to end the 45 bus at Elephant & Castle.  Anyone heard this?


They are consulting on scrapping or curtailing a number of routes, the 45 is on the list
Consultation here.....Central London Bus Services Review			  - Transport for London			 - Citizen Space


----------



## xsunnysuex (Nov 1, 2018)

aka said:


> Going which way. ?


From Brixton


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 1, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Now you're moving the goal posts!
> 
> Both the Sabre people and the fencing NGB were being incorrectly labelled as a private company taking up public space. I was simply pointing out that they aren't.  I wasn't commenting on how they operated.
> 
> ...



I don't remember mentioning a "creepy national provider". Its late in the day but I'm at a loss to understand what you mean.

I made clear my views in post 1540 of this thread.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> The ad has " created interest" on the normally sedate Facebook group
> Memories of Brixton & Stockwell......200+ comments on the buzz article
> ...and now this.....
> 
> View attachment 151431


I got thrown off that group because I kept asking them to stop stealing my photos and articles without having the courtesy to credit them so I can't see the chat.


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 2, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I don't remember mentioning a "creepy national provider". Its late in the day but I'm at a loss to understand what you mean.
> 
> I made clear my views in post 1540 of this thread.


Sorryy, as a reminder you compared Gll to the sabre people.


----------



## aka (Nov 2, 2018)

xsunnysuex said:


> From Brixton


OK, so looks like they are also shortening the 59 - Telford Avenue to Kings Cross - as well (and reducing frequency).  Presumably it will then terminate at Waterloo?


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> I got thrown off that group because I kept asking them to stop stealing my photos and articles without having the courtesy to credit them so I can't see the chat.


The post about the mural has now been removed.Normal service resumed.


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 2, 2018)

aka said:


> OK, so looks like they are also shortening the 59 - Telford Avenue to Kings Cross - as well (and reducing frequency).  Presumably it will then terminate at Waterloo?


Think it's stopping at Euston.
e2a and the 3 will terminate at Whitehall


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Brixton as film backdrop


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> Brixton as film backdrop




Well, that's very white and middle class isn't it....


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 2, 2018)

This could be good, notwithstanding yuppies hipsters foodies and tourists who might be in the area......


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> View attachment 151480 This could be good, notwithstanding yuppies hipsters foodies and tourists who might be in the area......


That's the one I was asked to be part of. I do wonder how this is going to work. As I recall, some traders have complained about the noise from DJs in the market in the past, and presumably these new nights are going to be reasonably loud. And if they're doing it in the forecourt, then I can't see why they won't get the same complaints that blighted the Kaff project opposite - even more so now since money-grabbing Jerry has built new yup-hutches next door.

And then there's the question of even more people being encouraged to come drinking in Brixton with no new toilets being made available. Or, in fact, _any_ late at night.


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> That's the one I was asked to be part of. I do wonder how this is going to work. As I recall, some traders have complained about the noise from DJs in the market in the past, and presumably these new nights are going to be reasonably loud. And if they're doing in forecourt, then I can't see why they won't get the same complaints that blighted the Kaff project opposite - even more so now since money-grabbing Jerry has built new yup-hutches next door.
> 
> And then there's the question of even more people being encouraged to come drinking in Brixton with no new toilets being made available. Or, in fact, _any_ late at night.


I would share some of those concerns but Mr Sharpe is something of a force of nature who should draw in a fairly large crowd being a cult figure and someone with good connections in this part of town and I imagine the music selection will be at once uplifting and thought provoking, as fo the toilet issues I don't associate him with lager swilling hordes by any stretch.

E2a here is some of his own current musical output, still producing under his own aegis with no big label backing....


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

I DJd alongside him this year. He wasn't my kind of chap. 

Like that tune though...


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I DJd alongside him this year. He wasn't my kind of chap.
> 
> Like that tune though...


I'm guessing that would be the Trojan night at the Social ?


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I DJd alongside him this year. He wasn't my kind of chap.
> 
> Like that tune though...


How come you didn't get on?


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Some Halloween pics
















Halloween night around town – photos from the Railway Tavern and Club 414, Brixton, 31st Oct 2018


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> I'm guessing that would be the Trojan night at the Social ?



Nah it was at the ska fest...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> How come you didn't get on?



I wouldn't say we didn't get on, I just didn't warm to his personality.

I think I asked him what kind of set he was playing and he sort of barked 'I'm only playing reggae, it aint hard, I only play A sides, they are all great, it's not rocket science'

I was a bit like, 'oh ok' and thinking some of them records have great B-sides....

...and he had this bloke with him and they were dressed the same, and they stood in front of the decks with their arms crossed while another DJ played.

I just found him weird (and arrogant)..


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> ...and he had this bloke with him and they were dressed the same, and they stood in front of the decks with their arms crossed while another DJ played.
> 
> I just found him weird (and arrogant)..


That is odd behaviour. Bit disrespectful too.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> That is odd behaviour. Bit disrespectful too.



I thought they were bouncers at first


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> That's the one I was asked to be part of. I do wonder how this is going to work. As I recall, some traders have complained about the noise from DJs in the market in the past, and presumably these new nights are going to be reasonably loud. And if they're doing it in the forecourt, then I can't see why they won't get the same complaints that blighted the Kaff project opposite - even more so now since money-grabbing Jerry has built new yup-hutches next door.
> 
> And then there's the question of even more people being encouraged to come drinking in Brixton with no new toilets being made available. Or, in fact, _any_ late at night.



And Cyndi's given you a long reply to your same question on FB!


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> And Cyndi's given you a long reply to your same question on FB!


She has indeed! I totally respect Cyndi but there's still something about a multi-millionaire socialite getting involved in Brixton that rubs me up the wrong way.  I'll pop in and tale a look, but there's little to keep me hanging around Brixton Village these days. Not my scene at all.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Some pics from last night the weekly Thursday free gig at the Dogstar. The quality of the acts really is pretty high. 
















In photos: Flo Gallop and Renattajane at the Brixton Dogstar, Thurs 1st Nov 2018


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> She has indeed! I totally respect Cyndi but there's still something about a multi-millionaire socialite getting involved in Brixton that rubs me up the wrong way.  I'll pop in and tale a look, but there's little to keep me hanging around Brixton Village these days. Not my scene at all.



I'm looking forward to DJing in a mobile DJ booth....do you think it has pedals?


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I'm looking forward to DJing in a mobile DJ booth....do you think it has pedals?


I'd pedal it straight out of the fucking Village if it did.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> I'd pedal it straight out of the fucking Village if it did.



Shut up you moany old sod...


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Shut up you moany old sod...


Come on - imagine liberating that thing from the right wing millionaire's clutches and whizzing around the Moorlands Estate banging out ska, dancehall and reggae. MUCH more fun.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> Come on - imagine liberating that thing from the right wing millionaire's clutches and whizzing around the Moorlands Estate banging out ska, dancehall and reggae. MUCH more fun.



The power lead wouldn't be long enough....you'd go silent 3 metres out the door...


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> The power lead wouldn't be long enough....you'd go silent 3 metres out the door...


Hook up a generator and off you go!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> Hook up a generator and off you go!



ha ha...yeah, fuck peddling a generator around on the back of a fucking weird hawaiian themed DJ booth with a corrugated iron roof....ha ha


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> ha ha...yeah, fuck peddling a generator around on the back of a fucking weird hawaiian themed DJ booth with a corrugated iron roof....ha ha


It would be pretty special if you had some drugs before you started off


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> It would be pretty special if you had some drugs before you started off



Nothing I ever did on drugs was ever pretty special...which is why I don't take them anymore (aside from the odd puff here and there)


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Nothing I ever did on drugs was ever pretty special...which is why I don't take them anymore (aside from the odd puff here and there)


Taking a weird Hawaiian themed DJ booth for a ride on mushrooms would definitely be my idea of fun


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> Taking a weird Hawaiian themed DJ booth for a ride on mushrooms would definitely be my idea of fun



Well, you've missed your chance, cos you said no....

I know for a fact I am parking it somewhere warm when I DJ there...


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Well, you've missed your chance, cos you said no....
> 
> I know for a fact I am parking it somewhere warm when I DJ there...


They didn't tell me I'd be able to take it for a joyride. I really didn't fancy playing the Village crowd but be sure to post up when you're playing and I'll pop down if I'm around.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> They didn't tell me I'd be able to take it for a joyride. I really didn't fancy playing the Village crowd but be sure to post up when you're playing and I'll pop down if I'm around.



I shall....no idea what it'll be like...I'm doing a 2 hour slot on a sunday afternoon in December, so let's see...


----------



## gaijingirl (Nov 2, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Think it's stopping at Euston.
> e2a and the 3 will terminate at Whitehall



noooooo!  That's the bus I take on the (very rare) occasion I go up to Oxford Street.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

gaijingirl said:


> noooooo!  That's the bus I take on the (very rare) occasion I go up to Oxford Street.



(very rare) is probably why they are ditching it...


----------



## organicpanda (Nov 2, 2018)

the No 3 has been stopping at Trafalgar Square for a long time, the 159 goes to Oxford Street and beyond (don't ever go further north there be dragons)


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> ...and he had this bloke with him and they were dressed the same, and they stood in front of the decks with their arms crossed while another DJ played.
> 
> I just found him weird (and arrogant)..



He has a clothing line which could be why they were wearing similar clothes



editor said:


> That is odd behaviour. Bit disrespectful too.



Can't see the disrespect personally, this was quite acceptable behaviour in the olden days in a number of venues I frequented.....


----------



## gaijingirl (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> (very rare) is probably why they are ditching it...



... or it might be to break up longer journeys into 2 shorter ones and create more revenue (as they did a number of years ago).


----------



## gaijingirl (Nov 2, 2018)

organicpanda said:


> the No 3 has been stopping at Trafalgar Square for a long time, the 159 goes to Oxford Street and beyond (don't ever go further north there be dragons)



arse... had planned to maybe use it tomorrow.  159  it is then.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> He has a clothing line which could be why they were wearing similar clothes
> 
> 
> 
> Can't see the disrespect personally, this was quite acceptable behaviour in the olden days in a number of venues I frequented.....



I know he has a clothing line.

I still don't see what is cool about two geezers stood arms crossed infront of DJ booth wearing identical gear (which was blue jeans, alpha industry bomber jackets, and Docs)


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

.....but I am not cool or an icon, or anything...so perhaps I just don't understand it, cos I aint exclusive enough....or something....


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I know he has a clothing line.
> 
> I still don't see what is cool about two geezers stood arms crossed infront of DJ booth wearing identical gear (which was blue jeans, alpha industry bomber jackets, and Docs)


To me that's spoiling the vibe for the other DJ completely. If they were dancing that would be a different manner, but what they were doing sounds rather intimidating to both the DJ and anyone wanting to come up and talk to them.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> To me that's spoiling the vibe for the other DJ completely. If they were dancing that would be a different manner, but what they were doing sounds rather intimidating to both the DJ and anyone wanting to come up and talk to them.



That is what it looked and felt like (and it was a female DJ)


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> That is what it looked and felt like (and it was a female DJ)


That makes it even worse.


----------



## northeast (Nov 2, 2018)

Not Brixton but very sad to see

Clapham South stabbing: Boy killed outside Tube station
Boy stabbed to death outside Tube station


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> That is what it looked and felt like (and it was a female DJ)





editor said:


> That makes it even worse.



Seriously.....Sharpeye as the Harvey Weinstein of the club scene you are having a fucking bubble
.....but good work on a character assassination based on absolutely fuck all....


----------



## T & P (Nov 2, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I still don't see what is cool about two geezers stood arms crossed infront of DJ booth wearing identical gear (which was blue jeans, alpha industry bomber jackets, and Docs)





editor said:


> To me that's spoiling the vibe for the other DJ completely. If they were dancing that would be a different manner, but what they were doing sounds rather intimidating to both the DJ and anyone wanting to come up and talk to them.


 Your conversation has reminded me of my new favourite DJ, from a visual/ good vibes point of view at least. We were recently looking for some light & uplifting house tunes to play in the background while cleaning & tidying up the flat, and we came across this DJ and ended up watching him play for a good 15 minutes. Clearly enjoying the occasion, and moving to his  own tunes in a rather hypnotic way


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 3, 2018)

editor said:


> That's the one I was asked to be part of. I do wonder how this is going to work. As I recall, some traders have complained about the noise from DJs in the market in the past, and presumably these new nights are going to be reasonably loud. And if they're doing it in the forecourt, then I can't see why they won't get the same complaints that blighted the Kaff project opposite - even more so now since money-grabbing Jerry has built new yup-hutches next door.
> 
> And then there's the question of even more people being encouraged to come drinking in Brixton with no new toilets being made available. Or, in fact, _any_ late at night.



This is the reason I supported changing Carlton Mansions into work units. If Brixton us to be entertainment zone then people should be rehoused somewhere else. Mixing different uses maybe fashionable urban design but it doesn't work in practice.

In the later years the market became a problem. When I first was there the Granville Arcade was a market not a foodie entertainment place.

Cyndi turned up when it was being "regenerated" again. First time was Brixton Challenge when it was renamed Brixton Village.

Granville Arcade was open Monday to Saturday with half day Wednesday. Usually closed at six. Closed all day Sunday.

So easy to live near by.

In later years I started to object to shops in arcade getting drinks licences as the change to entertainment was starting to cause problems.

I could see the way it was going. Its why I have every sympathy with Sleepless in Brixton. Some of us lived in Brixton when it wasn't fashionable or hip.

When it became fashionable long term residents were supposed to put up with extra noise and disturbance. No one asked them.

I remember several years ago trying to explain this to Cyndi. Like the fact then that some people had lived in the flats above the arcade for years. She didn't get it.

If Cyndi makes money out of playing music for the new demographic good on her but what concerns me is that traditionally Brixton wasn't just an eaterie and entertainment experience it was a mixture of residents/ retail/ entertainment.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Seriously.....Sharpeye as the Harvey Weinstein of the club scene you are having a fucking bubble
> .....but good work on a character assassination based on absolutely fuck all....


That's quite a remarkable interpretation of what's been said there. But, really, do you think it's OK for two burly blokes to stand right in front of a female DJ when she's playing, and if so, why? 

If they did it to me, I'd tell them to shift their arses.


----------



## Ms T (Nov 3, 2018)

gaijingirl said:


> ... or it might be to break up longer journeys into 2 shorter ones and create more revenue (as they did a number of years ago).


It shouldn’t cost more due to the newish “Hoppa” fare thingy. But it’s annoying because I used to be able to get the 3 all the way to work if the Tube was closed.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 3, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Seriously.....Sharpeye as the Harvey Weinstein of the club scene you are having a fucking bubble
> .....but good work on a character assassination based on absolutely fuck all....



They weren't wearing bathrobes


----------



## The Fornicator (Nov 4, 2018)

organicpanda said:


> the No 3 has been stopping at Trafalgar Square for a long time, the 159 goes to Oxford Street and beyond (don't ever go further north there be dragons)


The congestion on that last stretch into Traf Sq has caught me out so often I'm almost relived the No 3 is stopping a couple of hundred yards sooner; miss the stop and you can be stuck for ages, won't let you off. New last stop is by Whitehall Place, I think.

This revamp of bus routes is a consequence of the two rides in an hour thing that Sadiq brought in. On stretches of some routes there are like 60 buses an hour as diff bus routes converge, esp. nearer central London. The idea is to reduce costs, pollution and congestion. That's the plan anyway ..


----------



## xsunnysuex (Nov 5, 2018)

A nice greeting this morning from my Ebony horse club neighbour.


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

Brixton tonight - Brixton Soup Kitchen hosts Hot Chocolate and Fireworks fundraiser, Mon 5th Nov, 5pm-9pm


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

Some pics from the last Effra Social night. I've got a great reggae band this week  - and it's free to get in all  night. 






















In photos: dirt-kicking bluegrass punk and Brixton Buzz DJs at the Effra Social, Fri 2nd Nov 2018


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2018)




----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

Love this Google review of the Barclays in Brixton:



> It's not so much a bank as an arcade of ATMs plus a few clueless people.





And more strangely:


> Clueless gnomes



barclays bank brixton - Google Search,,,


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

Brewdog are trumpeting their support for private healthcare on their new Brixton bar. And you can't get much more 'punk' than that.


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

Anyone got an answer?


----------



## MissL (Nov 5, 2018)

Someone on here said an Italian restaurant is opening.


----------



## ricbake (Nov 5, 2018)

editor said:


> Anyone got an answer?




Does he mean the site corner of Tulse Hill and Brailsford Road, the tyre shed had this planning permission for a 3 bed house which is now 3 years old so possibly being acted on as it expires. It's beside the access to the closed Lambeth Landmark Adult Care Centre 47 Tulse Hill

15/04890/FUL     |              Change of use from Store car tyres (Use Class B2) to a Residential dwelling house (Use Class C3), involving the demolition of the existing building and the erection of 2 storey dwelling house with basement.                  |                                                                      45A Tulse Hill London Lambeth SW2 2TJ


----------



## Ms T (Nov 5, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Does he mean the site corner of Tulse Hill and Brailsford Road, the tyre shed had this planning permission for a 3 bed house which is now 3 years old so possibly being acted on as it expires. It's beside the access to the closed Lambeth Landmark Adult Care Centre 47 Tulse Hill
> 
> 15/04890/FUL	 |			  Change of use from Store car tyres (Use Class B2) to a Residential dwelling house (Use Class C3), involving the demolition of the existing building and the erection of 2 storey dwelling house with basement.				  |																	  45A Tulse Hill London Lambeth SW2 2TJ
> 
> View attachment 151793



I think he means the old Montego Inn site. I thought it was going to be an Italian restaurant - but only because someone on here said that ages ago.


----------



## ricbake (Nov 5, 2018)

This one - nothing on the Lambeth Licence site - some history of rejected applications on planning
Building control has a restaurant ground and basement application back in June


----------



## aka (Nov 5, 2018)

editor said:


> Brewdog are trumpeting their support for private healthcare on their new Brixton bar. And you can't get much more 'punk' than that.


Good for them. It’s a good benefit. It’s taxable, but won’t be obligatory.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2018)

This Friday at the Effra Social - free all night, band on at 10pm! Roots rock reggae with the Majestic at the Effra Social, Fri 9th Nov – free entry all night!


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2018)

aka said:


> Good for them. It’s a good benefit. It’s taxable, but won’t be obligatory.


Hooray for the two tier health system! Short queues for the rich and the poor can get to the back!


----------



## aka (Nov 6, 2018)

editor said:


> Hooray for the two tier health system! Short queues for the rich and the poor can get to the back!


"All crew members at all levels"


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2018)

aka said:


> "All crew members at all levels"


Way to miss the point. 

Oh, and "crew." LOL.


----------



## alcopop (Nov 6, 2018)

aka said:


> "All crew members at all levels"


Are they paying London living wage do you know?


----------



## aka (Nov 6, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Are they paying London living wage do you know?


No idea I'm afraid.  I can ask.


----------



## aka (Nov 6, 2018)

aka said:


> No idea I'm afraid.  I can ask.


I asked.  They say they do.


----------



## alcopop (Nov 6, 2018)

aka said:


> I asked.  They say they do.


Thanks


----------



## aka (Nov 6, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Thanks


Turns out, that if you (as an employer) want to get accredited ref Living Wage, you have to pay LLW.  "Part of signing up to being a living wage employer with the living wage foundation is also promising to always pay a London living wage in London."  I checked, it's true.  I'd prefer that we all got paid more by right, but legislation to push up earnings....better than nowt.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 6, 2018)

We are just going through the process of getting LLW accreditation. We have to meet certain criteria, and demonstrate that subcontractors working our sites are also receiving the LLW from their employeers. Everyone other than our cleaners were already getting it both in London and our Midlands office.

I went to the CEO and told him this, said I'd like us to become an accredited LW employer, he agreed it. I immediately upped the cleaners pay, and we are on the verge of gaining out accreditation.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2018)

Some Chicago blues on tonight at Club 414 
Chicago blues with Carmen Carr & The Red Roosters live at Club 414 tonight, Weds 7th Nov, 10pm


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 8, 2018)

What was there before KFC on the corner of Coldharbour Lane. It may have been another fast food place before becoming a KFC? Burger king?


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> What was there before KFC on the corner of Coldharbour Lane. It may have been another fast food place before becoming a KFC? Burger king?


It used to be the Prince of Wales

Brixton history: Fascinating archive photo shows Brixton’s Prince of Wales before rebuilding


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 8, 2018)

editor said:


> It used to be the Prince of Wales
> 
> Brixton history: Fascinating archive photo shows Brixton’s Prince of Wales before rebuilding



Cheers, do we know when KFC got the space and if anyone had it inbetween?


----------



## alcopop (Nov 8, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Cheers, do we know when KFC got the space and if anyone had it inbetween?


Pizza Hut I think


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 8, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Pizza Hut I think



Ah, that might have been it....


----------



## theboris (Nov 8, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Ah, that might have been it....


Pizza Hut and KFC are different cheeks of the same arse - both owned by Yum Brands, formerly Tricon


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2018)

Popping into Brixton Villaaaaage? Looking for four secondhand children's plastic chairs? That'll be £180 thank you.


----------



## discobastard (Nov 8, 2018)

editor said:


> Popping into Brixton Villaaaaage? Looking for four secondhand children's plastic chairs? That'll be £180 thank you.
> 
> View attachment 152034



Bargain. Those things are usually £200 each. Vintage 70s design.  

Casalino Children's Chairs by Alexander Begge for Casala


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Bargain. Those things are usually £200 each. Vintage 70s design.
> 
> Casalino Children's Chairs by Alexander Begge for Casala


Awesome. Great to see the Village becoming the go-to location for super expensive, secondhand vintage stuff.


----------



## T & P (Nov 8, 2018)

Chairs are seldom cheap outside of something found in a charity shop. £45 for a chair that’s also a collectible item and can be resold in the future is by no means super-expensive, nor it implies the Village is becoming an exclusive hunting ground for rich people only. Those are not exactly Chippendale chairs.


----------



## aka (Nov 8, 2018)

editor said:


> Awesome. Great to see the Village becoming the go-to location for super expensive, secondhand vintage stuff.


I think we need to have a 'sarcasm' emoji.  It's all getting a little confusing.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2018)

T & P said:


> Chairs are seldom cheap outside of something found in a charity shop. £45 for a chair that’s also a collectible item and can be resold in the future is by no means super-expensive, nor it implies the Village is becoming an exclusive hunting ground for rich people only. Those are not exactly Chippendale chairs.


 It's a secondhand child's plastic chair. For £45
 How much do you think ordinary families around here  pay for a plastic seat for their kid?


----------



## aka (Nov 8, 2018)

editor said:


> It's a secondhand child's plastic chair. For £45
> How much do you think ordinary families around here  pay for a plastic seat for their kid?


Yes.  and Banksy is just splashing paint on a wall.  Fuck sake


----------



## T & P (Nov 8, 2018)

editor said:


> It's a secondhand child's plastic chair. For £45


 Which is also a collectable, and of a design some people will find attractive. There are all kinds of collectable items that will undoubtedly puzzle others. Fair enough if you can't see the attraction or value, but plenty of others will and one does not need to be rich, posh or trendy to do so.

Plenty of venerable secondhand bookshops have a collectable/ first edition section. Would you be making the same kind of arguments if you spotted a first edition copy of an Agatha Christie novel priced at £50 in the window of Brixton bookshop? What an extravagant rip off when could buy the same novel as a second hand paperback for £1, right? 



> How much do you think ordinary families around here  pay for a plastic seat for their kid?


 Why? Is this shop the only supplier of second hand chairs in Brixton?


----------



## alcopop (Nov 8, 2018)

T & P said:


> Which is also a collectable, and of a design some people will find attractive. There are all kinds of collectable items that will undoubtedly puzzle others. Fair enough if you can't see the attraction or value, but plenty of others will and one does not need to be rich, posh or trendy to do so.
> 
> Plenty of venerable secondhand bookshops have a collectable/ first edition section. Would you be making the same kind of arguments if you spotted a first edition copy of an Agatha Christie novel priced at £50 in the window of Brixton bookshop? What an extravagant rip off when could buy the same novel as a second hand paperback for £1, right?
> 
> Why? Is this shop the only supplier of second hand chairs in Brixton?


If they are in good nick then absolutely a bargain I think


----------



## discobastard (Nov 8, 2018)

editor said:


> It's a secondhand child's plastic chair. For £45
> How much do you think ordinary families around here  pay for a plastic seat for their kid?



I have no idea, what's the definition of an 'ordinary family'?  If I wanted children's chairs then I'd buy these from Argos, 30 quid and a table thrown in, handily on Atlantic Road: Buy Liberty House Plastic Table & Chairs | Kids tables and chairs | Argos  (funky colours ahoy here!)  Or I could get them cheaper I'm sure if I scoured Gumtree or Urban75's legendary 'recycle your stuff' forum, on which I have gratefully given and received many things to date.

If a market trader had found some very collectible/vintage designs, and wanted to flog them to make a living at what is considerably below the market rate (admittedly second hand), then is that not OK?  If somebody was selling a vintage Gretsch drumkit or Lomo camera at a good price in the Village would you be making the same point?

If some people want to pay £45 for £200+ vintage design chairs a la Philippe Starck, why should they not? It's not clear what you are specifically objecting to. Please be clearer if you can.


----------



## discobastard (Nov 8, 2018)

editor said:


> Awesome. Great to see the Village becoming the go-to location for super expensive, secondhand vintage stuff.


The go-to location for super expensive, secondhand vintage stuff is actually Herne Hill or Church Road in Crystal Palace.  There's prices there that would make your eyes water.

Because somebody is selling those doesn't make Brixton Market the 'go to' location for that stuff.  Hey, it might do, which would be a shame, but who are you to decide what people can and cannot sell to make a living?


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

editor said:


> Popping into Brixton Villaaaaage? Looking for four secondhand children's plastic chairs? That'll be £180 thank you.
> 
> View attachment 152034




Why I don't use Brixton village much.

I see some posters here are candidates for "I saw you coming". The whole joke behind that sketch is that idiots will pay loads of money for what in reality cheap goods.

Good to see that this satirical comedy sketch is still relevant.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

aka said:


> I think we need to have a 'sarcasm' emoji.  It's all getting a little confusing.



I think the old "I saw you coming sketch" is totally still relevant when I read the posts here.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I have no idea, what's the definition of an 'ordinary family'?  If I wanted children's chairs then I'd buy these from Argos, 30 quid and a table thrown in, handily on Atlantic Road: Buy Liberty House Plastic Table & Chairs | Kids tables and chairs | Argos  (funky colours ahoy here!)  Or I could get them cheaper I'm sure if I scoured Gumtree or Urban75's legendary 'recycle your stuff' forum, on which I have gratefully given and received many things to date.
> 
> If a market trader had found some very collectible/vintage designs, and wanted to flog them to make a living at what is considerably below the market rate (admittedly second hand), then is that not OK?  If somebody was selling a vintage Gretsch drumkit or Lomo camera at a good price in the Village would you be making the same point?
> 
> If some people want to pay £45 for £200+ vintage design chairs a la Philippe Starck, why should they not? It's not clear what you are specifically objecting to. Please be clearer if you can.



That the Granville Arcade I knew was full of affordable useful shops. Not eateries or "I saw you coming" shops.


----------



## aka (Nov 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I think the old "I saw you coming sketch" is totally still relevant when I read the posts here.


Not sure that’s a sketch.


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

aka said:


> Not sure that’s a sketch.



Its reality in London. Despite being old.

Mentioning old satire I was at new block of flats in West London picking up stuff which was straight out of Ballards "High Rise".  The residents package included a "lifestyle consultant" and 24 hour concierge / security. Such is life in London now.


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## discobastard (Nov 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> That the Granville Arcade I knew was full of affordable useful shops. Not eateries or "I saw you coming" shops.


That's a worthwhile comment.  And so the issue is that the whole retail landscape has changed.  And this discussion about cocktail bars and burgers has been had many times.  And I acknowledge that wholesale gentrification is a bad thing.  There are also still some affordable useful shops there, but a lot fewer than before.  Many reasons for that I know.

Posting up sarcastic comments about individual items for sale isn't really a good way to deal with that because it detracts from the issue at hand.  Like I say, if somebody was selling a vintage drumkit, camera or vinyl or whatever else people on here are passionate about, the comment could equally be made is that there are some wonderful traders that have some really interesting stuff (whether or not you can afford them).  And they may or may not be traders that have been in the market for a long time and have diversified.  I'd love a vintage Gretsch drumkit.  I couldn't afford it but would love to look at it.

How much an ordinary family pays for a child's chair (not much I imagine as per my previous post) is entirely unrelated to the fact that somebody is selling four very collectible vintage design chairs for a quarter of the current new selling price.  It's a distortion.


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## discobastard (Nov 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> The residents package included a "lifestyle consultant" .



*That* is worth railing against.  Avocado Latte Newspeak.

Not a market trader selling vintage collectibles at second hand market price.


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

discobastard said:


> That's a worthwhile comment.  And so the issue is that the whole retail landscape has changed.  And this discussion about cocktail bars and burgers has been had many times.  And I acknowledge that wholesale gentrification is a bad thing.  There are also still some affordable useful shops there, but a lot fewer than before.  Many reasons for that I know.
> 
> Posting up sarcastic comments about individual items for sale isn't really a good way to deal with that because it detracts from the issue at hand.  Like I say, if somebody was selling a vintage drumkit, camera or vinyl or whatever else people on here are passionate about, the comment could equally be made is that there are some wonderful traders that have some really interesting stuff (whether or not you can afford them).  And they may or may not be traders that have been in the market for a long time and have diversified.  I'd love a vintage Gretsch drumkit.  I couldn't afford it but would love to look at it.
> 
> How much an ordinary family pays for a child's chair (not much I imagine as per my previous post) is entirely unrelated to the fact that somebody is selling four very collectible vintage design chairs for a quarter of the current new selling price.  It's a distortion.



You really don't get this. 

Typical comment from you. Start by saying you agree then long post why in this particular instance its not relevant.


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

discobastard said:


> *That* is worth railing against.  Avocado Latte Newspeak.
> 
> Not a market trader selling vintage collectibles at second hand market price.



Its the "lifestyle consultant" that will be pointing the residents of this new block towards traders selling vintage collectibles. 

There were some in the new flats "residents lounge". Which led to the residents cinema.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2018)

aka said:


> Yes.  and Banksy is just splashing paint on a wall.  Fuck sake


You didn't answer my question.


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## DietCokeGirl (Nov 9, 2018)

There's also fshmongers, butcher's, fruit and veg / grocery shops in Brixton Village. This idea that its only for rich people hurts those traders. If you dislike the expensive shops, perhaps support the last few family buissnesses, rather than write the whole place off.


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## happyshopper (Nov 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> That the Granville Arcade I knew was full of affordable useful shops. Not eateries or "I saw you coming" shops.


It wasn’t full for many years. There’s still some useful shops that I use regularly. Which shops are you missing?


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

happyshopper said:


> It wasn’t full for many years. There’s still some useful shops that I use regularly. Which shops are you missing?



DIY shop, pet shop, the afro Carribbean bakery for example.


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## RoyReed (Nov 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> DIY shop, pet shop, the afro Carribbean bakery for example.


The pet shop is one of my earliest memories of Brixton from when I was a little kid in about 1955-6. Who remembers the wolf-whistling mynah bird? How times change!


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## Rushy (Nov 9, 2018)

discobastard said:


> The go-to location for super expensive, secondhand vintage stuff is actually Herne Hill



Do you mean Bleu? Moses moved to Herne Hill after he was priced out of Coldharbour Lane at least ten years ago.


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## discobastard (Nov 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> You really don't get this.
> 
> Typical comment from you. Start by saying you agree then long post why in this particular instance its not relevant.



Typical comment from you.  Don't actually respond to anything I said.  Or get it.


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## discobastard (Nov 9, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> There's also fshmongers, butcher's, fruit and veg / grocery shops in Brixton Village. This idea that its only for rich people hurts those traders. If you dislike the expensive shops, perhaps support the last few family buissnesses, rather than write the whole place off.


Spot on.  It's irresponsible, context free distortion.  Much like fencing-gate.


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## Rushy (Nov 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> DIY shop, pet shop, the afro Carribbean bakery for example.


I was delighted when that pet shop went. Depressing place keeping animals in cramped, dark conditions. Miserable. 

Wasn't the bakery D Bess? They are wholesalers now rather than retail. They had a huge site on Brighton Terrace (now the SLAM drug rehab place) and then moved to Acre Lane.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 9, 2018)

Rushy said:


> Do you mean Bleu? Moses moved to Herne Hill after he was priced out of Coldharbour Lane at least ten years ago.


Great shop that. Bought a chair from him about 3 years ago, as we're on the subject.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 9, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> If you dislike the expensive shops, perhaps support the last few family buissnesses, rather than write the whole place off.


The Canterbury is always one of the old Brixton places some posters on here bemoan about losing. But they are the ones that never supported it when it was open. Maybe if they had it would have been busier and the landlord wouldn't have been tempted to sell and cash in.


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## happyshopper (Nov 9, 2018)

That


Gramsci said:


> DIY shop, pet shop, the afro Carribbean bakery for example.


 That’s not for example. That’s it. And pet shops have closed all over. Often that’s a good thing as they did no favours to the pets they sold, while there’s little money to be made in selling straw and pet food. 

Romanticising what Granville Arcade used to be like in the nineties is pointless. Picturesque but half empty.


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## alcopop (Nov 9, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Great shop that. Bought a chair from him about 3 years ago, as we're on the subject.


Is he still got two shops there?


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## Pickman's model (Nov 9, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> The Canterbury is always one of the old Brixton places some posters on here bemoan about losing. But they are the ones that never supported it when it was open. Maybe if they had it would have been busier and the landlord wouldn't have been tempted to sell and cash in.


When pubs can go for far more as flats than as pubs it's no surprise people cash in, for example in 1998 the Acton Arms on Kingsland Road was sold for development into flats by the landlord for £250,000 - he was well into his 70s, so closure had been on the cards for a while. If he'd sold it on as a pub, it'd have gone for about £90,000. And it's not like the only pubs to have gone were poorly used. Up Downham Road was the trafalgar. Bring a pretty busy pub didn't save it from closure, demolition and transformation into flats. Support is no guarantee of longevity


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## Mr Retro (Nov 9, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Is he still got two shops there?


I’m not sure. I haven’t been there for a few years now. I hope so.


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## T & P (Nov 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I see some posters here are candidates for "I saw you coming". The whole joke behind that sketch is that idiots will pay loads of money for what in reality cheap goods.


 That is a simplistic and rather silly generalisation. Do you believe in the concept of that some items can be collectable and valuable, despite them being "old" or "used"? Or do you only apply such philosophy to certain items only, while dismissing other objects you don't like personally or that are sold by retailers you don't have time for as a rip-off extravagance for fools with more money than sense?

I'll ask you the same question I asked Editor. If you saw a first edition book from the 1950s, say by Agatha Christie, Graham Greene or similar, in the window of a venerable secondhand bookshop in Brixton for £50, would also deride it as a rip-off? At the end of the day you could buy a used paperback of the same novel that's only ten years old for a quid. Why pay more for an older book?

Would you describe people who collect early and first edition books as "I saw you coming" types then? Or vinyl record collectors, many of whom will pay prices for early pressings of records that might seem an absurd and extravagant rip-off to others. Or many other things, from clothes to accessories to art to countless others.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> When pubs can go for far more as flats than as pubs it's no surprise people cash in, for example in 1998 the Acton Arms on Kingsland Road was sold for development into flats by the landlord for £250,000 - he was well into his 70s, so closure had been on the cards for a while. If he'd sold it on as a pub, it'd have gone for about £90,000. And it's not like the only pubs to have gone were poorly used. Up Downham Road was the trafalgar. Bring a pretty busy pub didn't save it from closure, demolition and transformation into flats. Support is no guarantee of longevity


I agree with you. My point is please don’t use a pub you never drank to lament the Brixton that is lost


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## Pickman's model (Nov 9, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> I agree with you. My point is please don’t use a pub you never drank in as an example of the Brixton that is lost.


It is an example of the brixton that is lost as much as the green man up the great North Road where it crosses the North circ - which I never drank in - is an example of the finchley we have lost.


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## Rushy (Nov 9, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Is he still got two shops there?


No. The Railton Road corner one was a victim of the arches refurbishment. I think he was originally planning to move back in bit fuck knows what is happening there. Apparently the units are available as Xmas pop ups...


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## editor (Nov 9, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Posting up sarcastic comments about individual items for sale isn't really a good way to deal with that because it detracts from the issue at hand.


No, it just_ illustrates _the point about how Granville Market, which was a popular and affordable market for all locals, is turning into a place that primarily caters to the needs of well-off foodies, hipsters, champagne quaffers and now people looking to invest in expensive collectables.  And that is a reflection about how gentrification is changing the area and turning community places into the province of those who can afford them. 

And the truth is, if anyone else had made the same point as me, you would have reacted differently.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2018)

happyshopper said:


> That
> That’s not for example. That’s it. And pet shops have closed all over. Often that’s a good thing as they did no favours to the pets they sold, while there’s little money to be made in selling straw and pet food.
> 
> Romanticising what Granville Arcade used to be like in the nineties is pointless. Picturesque but half empty.


It was only 'half empty' when the developers were trying to run the place down. I've got plenty of pictures of the market from 10-15-20 years ago when it was anything but half empty. I can post some up if you like.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2018)

Horrible.


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## klang (Nov 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> It is an example of the brixton that is lost as much as the green man up the great North Road where it crosses the North circ - which I never drank in - is an example of the finchley we have lost.


tbh I miss a lot of places all over London I've never set foot in.


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## aka (Nov 9, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Great shop that. Bought a chair from him about 3 years ago, as we're on the subject.


Great stuff in that shop, but my word some of it was well pricey.


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## aka (Nov 9, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Is he still got two shops there?


One got shut when they did the refurb of the arches - not sure if it is back yet.  I've stopped going to Herne Hill market, as Jacob's Ladder stopped selling meat and the bloke who did Medieval Bread got usurped by the Post Office Bakery.


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## organicpanda (Nov 9, 2018)

editor said:


> No, it just_ illustrates _the point about how Granville Market, which was a popular and affordable market for all locals, is turning into a place that primarily caters to the needs of well-off foodies, hipsters, champagne quaffers and now people looking to invest in expensive collectables.  And that is a reflection about how gentrification is changing the area and turning community places into the province of those who can afford them.
> 
> And the truth is, if anyone else had made the same point as me, you would have reacted differently.


I guess it comes down to the definition of community. the people who used the old Granville arcade were part of the community at that time but the stalls supplying them were businesses, the people using the market now are arguably still a community but of a different socio-economic class with different businesses supplying them. this is not to disagree with your overarching point that a big section of residents in Brixton have been marginalised and forced elsewhere by rampant unchecked capitalism that has no care for the idea of community and only cares about margins and not the marginalised


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## editor (Nov 9, 2018)

organicpanda said:


> I guess it comes down to the definition of community. the people who used the old Granville arcade were part of the community at that time but the stalls supplying them were businesses, the people using the market now are arguably still a community but of a different socio-economic class with different businesses supplying them. this is not to disagree with your overarching point that a big section of residents in Brixton have been marginalised and forced elsewhere by rampant unchecked capitalism that has no care for the idea of community and only cares about margins and not the marginalised


I agree, but a lot of the people using the market now are tourists, who only come into Brixton for the food/booze/craic and make no community connections, much like what happened to poor old Camden.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2018)

Some pics from last night's mellow but enjoyable Newschool night at the Dog. 

















In photos: Tom Gortler and Elizza perform at Newschool at the Dogstar, Thurs 8th Nov 2018


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## organicpanda (Nov 9, 2018)

editor said:


> I agree, but a lot of the people using the market now are tourists, who only come into Brixton for the food/booze/craic and make no community connections, much like what happened to poor old Camden.


sadly it seems to be the same everywhere, I had a stall at Spitalfields market for years before it was redeveloped and that whole area was changed beyond belief with most of us who had helped to save the market being forced out by a combination of higher rents and smaller units and thus it became a tourist destination with the local community who used it being forced to go elsewhere while the new monied/tourists found it edgy and vibrant. As for Camden I reckon the locals (what's left of them) must lament what has happened to their community


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## Ms T (Nov 9, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Is he still got two shops there?


He’s got a shop on Dulwich Rd in the old florists. His old shop was on the corner in one of the arches and is still being worked on by Network Rail. Moses told me they’ve found a lot of structural problems.


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## Ms T (Nov 9, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Great shop that. Bought a chair from him about 3 years ago, as we're on the subject.


I’m currently sitting on a leather sofa we bought from Bleu 15 years ago. Around the same time we bought a leather chair, a glass and chrome coffee table and a large wine rack which is affectionately known as the “Nazi wine cage”. I think the whole lot came to about a grand. All still going strong.


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## Ms T (Nov 9, 2018)

I walked through Camden recently while walking the towpath from Kings Cross to Regents Park. Bloody hell it’s grim.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 9, 2018)

editor said:


> I agree, but a lot of the people using the market now are tourists, who only come into Brixton for the food/booze/craic and make no community connections, much like what happened to poor old Camden.


IMO there should be 2 exits from the tube. Residents and non residents. Those coming through the non-residents channel “for the food/booze/craic” with no intention of making a “community connection” should be marched back down the escalator and returned to where they came from.


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## cuppa tee (Nov 9, 2018)

Apologies for tardy response but regards this


editor said:


> That's quite a remarkable interpretation of what's been said there .


I had taken liquor, but I was responding to what I took to be an insinuation of deliberately misogynistic bullying behaviour, and struggled to think of any other misogynistic bullies at that time so went for the first high profile misogynist to hand



> do you think it's OK for two burly blokes to stand right in front of a female DJ when she's playing, and if so, why?



This is a loaded question because we are talking of a specific occasion and there is fuck all context being applied, there may well be many factors at play on the night in question that have not been mentioned, I am not on first name terms with Mr Sharpe but know him well enough and the circles he moves in to be confident in saying intimidating a female in any situation would be completely out of character. In fact this why I felt the need to make the post you quoted as IMHO making such insinuations on a public forum where the person being talked about cannot reply is irresponsible and could be damaging to a persons reputation even if such insinuations are untrue.


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

happyshopper said:


> That
> That’s not for example. That’s it. And pet shops have closed all over. Often that’s a good thing as they did no favours to the pets they sold, while there’s little money to be made in selling straw and pet food.
> 
> Romanticising what Granville Arcade used to be like in the nineties is pointless. Picturesque but half empty.



I wasn't romanticising it. Nor I have inferred it was "picturesque".


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

T & P said:


> That is a simplistic and rather silly generalisation. Do you believe in the concept of that some items can be collectable and valuable, despite them being "old" or "used"? Or do you only apply such philosophy to certain items only, while dismissing other objects you don't like personally or that are sold by retailers you don't have time for as a rip-off extravagance for fools with more money than sense?
> 
> I'll ask you the same question I asked Editor. If you saw a first edition book from the 1950s, say by Agatha Christie, Graham Greene or similar, in the window of a venerable secondhand bookshop in Brixton for £50, would also deride it as a rip-off? At the end of the day you could buy a used paperback of the same novel that's only ten years old for a quid. Why pay more for an older book?
> 
> Would you describe people who collect early and first edition books as "I saw you coming" types then? Or vinyl record collectors, many of whom will pay prices for early pressings of records that might seem an absurd and extravagant rip-off to others. Or many other things, from clothes to accessories to art to countless others.



This came up with the Harry Enfield sketch. A regular on his show. 

As I posted I was in West London this week and the sketch is still spot on. Met people who could have been it it. 

Given what you are saying his making fun of these people is simplistic and silly generalisation. 

I do serious posts here, which are ignored. I also come here to let off steam. So following Harry Enfield I will have a laugh at s shop selling over priced second hand furniture. 

Its not like I have never done anything to try to stop the gentrification of Brixton. I've just got email from Lambeth planning giving permission for yet another bar/ restaurant in Brixton. Which I had opposed. I've never just sat here and "bemoaned" whats been happening to Brixton as a certain poster has implied. 

Having a laugh is necessary sometimes. The same criticisms levelled at me can be levelled at Harry Enfield. 

Its an old sketch but sadly still relevant.


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

To add I really hope whats happened to Brixton doesn't happen to Loughborough Junction. The Hero of Switzerland is likely to suffer same fate as Canterbury Arms.

Owners redeveloping site as block of flats. In theory a new bar on ground floor.

Hero is pub I use so I can't be accused of just "bemoaning" its loss.

The Grove adventure playground is under threat from redevelopment.

Still the large number of Council tenants don't make this area so easily target for gentrification as Brixton. Them being vocal they don't want change. Good imo.


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## T & P (Nov 9, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> IMO there should be 2 exits from the tube. Residents and non residents. Those coming through the non-residents channel “for the food/booze/craic” with no intention of making a “community connection” should be marched back down the escalator and returned to where they came from.


Quite right. The same should of course also apply to Londoners and indeed everyone else ever intending to leisurely visit other cities on a short break. I mean, imagine going to Paris or Amsterdam or Rome for a weekend and daring to explore any given area of the city of an afternoon without having previously made careful plans to ensure a meaningful engagement with the local community during the four hours you're going to spend there. The height of inconsideration.


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

T & P said:


> Quite right. The same should of course also apply to Londoners and indeed everyone else ever intending to leisurely visit other cities on a short break. I mean, imagine going to Paris or Amsterdam or Rome for a weekend and daring to explore any given area of the city of an afternoon without having previously made careful plans to ensure a meaningful engagement with the local community during the four hours you're going to spend there. The height of inconsideration.



This has happened in Barcelona.


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> It is an example of the brixton that is lost as much as the green man up the great North Road where it crosses the North circ - which I never drank in - is an example of the finchley we have lost.



Good posts but you are wasting your time on Retro.


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## T & P (Nov 9, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> This has happened in Barcelona.


Barcelona is being torn apart by tourism but almost all of the problems are being caused by the explosion of rBnB apartments that have changed the fabric of many neighbourhoods by displacing locals and pushing up rents.

Tourism per se, so long as it does not reach the uncontrolled excess  numbers seen in Venice, is for the most part largely beneficial to many cities. The traditional hotel-based short.break tourism big cities like London receive every year is a vital source of income. And more to the point suggested upthread, it seems ludicrous to me to suggest tourists on a short visit to a given neighbourhood of a city should engage with the local community for two or three hours they’re going to be there, whatever that might mean. Never mind the issue of what exactly the tourists could do in such short period of time to achieve it.


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## Gramsci (Nov 10, 2018)

T & P said:


> Barcelona is being torn apart by tourism but almost all of the problems are being caused by the explosion of rBnB apartments that have changed the fabric of many neighbourhoods by displacing locals and pushing up rents.
> 
> Tourism per se, so long as it does not reach the uncontrolled excess  numbers seen in Venice, is for the most part largely beneficial to many cities. The traditional hotel-based short.break tourism big cities like London receive every year is a vital source of income. And more to the point suggested upthread, it seems ludicrous to me to suggest tourists on a short visit to a given neighbourhood of a city should engage with the local community for two or three hours they’re going to be there, whatever that might mean. Never mind the issue of what exactly the tourists could do in such short period of time to achieve it.



So your post 1736 wasnt to be taken literally.

Your now saying Barcelona is being torn apart by tourism.

And Venice has to many.

So tourism isn't simple straightforward good thing.

Interesting article here.


'Tourists go home, refugees welcome': why Barcelona chose migrants over visitors

Barcelona welcomes refugees not tourists.

Like Brixton people feel they are being pushed out by rising prices/ rents.

Like Brixton a lot of people like living with people from other countries/ cultures.

Its why I like living in Loughborough Junction now. Its still multicultural as its cheaper than Brixton. 

Btw the article ends with several other European cities who aren't happy with effects of tourism. So its not just a couple of cities.


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## T & P (Nov 10, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> So your post 1736 wasnt to be taken literally.
> 
> Your now saying Barcelona is being torn apart by tourism.
> 
> ...


As I said in my previous post, the problems in Barcelona are being caused by the change of use of extremely high numbers of flats from residential/ long term rent for residents to short break accommodation for tourists, not by the mere presence of tourists, which had been taking place for many decades without any problems caused to the locals, right until the advent of rBnB. And Venice is the only other significant exception, chiefly due to it actually being fairly small and unable to cope with the 5000-capacity cruise ships landing daily, which again is a relatively recent phenomenon. And even in these two scenarios the tourists themselves are only partially to blame, if at all.  

For the overwhelming majority of major cities around Europe, short term tourism is not a significant problem for the locals whatsoever. In fact, the opposite of it. So no, I don't see any evidence of tourists being a bad thing for Brixton or London residents.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 10, 2018)

T & P said:


> As I said in my previous post, the problems in Barcelona are being caused by the change of use of extremely high numbers of flats from residential/ long term rent for residents to short break accommodation for tourists, not by the mere presence of tourists, which had been taking place for many decades without any problems caused to the locals, right until the advent of rBnB.


Amsterdam cracked down on Air BnB about 2 years ago by restricting the nights you can rent for to 60 backed up with inspectors. There is a fine of €6k for a first offence. 

They’ve shown issues caused by air bnb is easy to fix if the city wants to. Blaming tourists is easy obvious target. It’s the wrong target though.


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## Rushy (Nov 10, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Amsterdam cracked down on Air BnB about 2 years ago by restricting the nights you can rent for to 60 backed up with inspectors. There is a fine of €6k for a first offence.
> 
> They’ve shown issues caused by air bnb is easy to fix if the city wants to. Blaming tourists is easy obvious target. It’s the wrong target though.


London has a 90 day limit - three months. Airbnb enforce it themselves although they can only count days booked through Airbnb.

This applies to whole home lets - not rooms.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 10, 2018)

Rushy said:


> London has a 90 day limit - three months. Airbnb enforce it themselves although they can only count days booked through Airbnb.
> 
> This applies to whole home lets - not rooms.


I didn’t know that 90 day rule in London. 

They are about to bring in something similar in Ireland but they’ve fucking arsed about with it for years so I don’t know the actual situation right now. Again only whole home lets.


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## CH1 (Nov 10, 2018)

Just saw Sajid Javid outside Pop Brixton about 11.15 am.

Quite a lot of police around, but hardly maximum security.
I could have gone up to him and done a Jon Snow (Home secretary are you going to resign?) no probs.

When I came back from the Halifax there were a couple of official poppy-wearing types outside Pop. Maybe Sajid Javid was inside - though if he'd come there to discuss knife crime it would seem to be a bad choice of venue.


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## editor (Nov 10, 2018)

T & P said:


> And more to the point suggested upthread, it seems ludicrous to me to suggest tourists on a short visit to a given neighbourhood of a city should engage with the local community for two or three hours they’re going to be there, whatever that might mean.


Good job that _no one actually suggested that_, then.


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## editor (Nov 10, 2018)

The violence continues:


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## CH1 (Nov 10, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Just saw Sajid Javid outside Pop Brixton about 11.15 am. Quite a lot of police around, but hardly maximum security.
> I could have gone up to him and done a Jon Snow (Home secretary are you going to resign?) no probs.
> When I came back from the Halifax there were a couple of official poppy-wearing types outside Pop. Maybe Sajid Javid was inside - though if he'd come there to discuss knife crime it would seem to be a bad choice of venue.


So I wasn't going mad. Well not more than usual anyway.

These Press Association pictures capture the event, and the following article (in the Belfast Telgraph) seems to be the only news report so far:
Javid urges ‘more leadership all round’ to stop children being drawn into crime - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


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## editor (Nov 10, 2018)

CH1 said:


> So I wasn't going mad. Well not more than usual anyway.
> 
> These Press Association pictures capture the event, and the following article (in the Belfast Telgraph) seems to be the only news report so far:
> Javid urges ‘more leadership all round’ to stop children being drawn into crime - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
> ...


Why do celebs/politicians/royalty all flock to Pop fucking Brixton?


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## CH1 (Nov 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Why do celebs/politicians/royalty all flock to Pop fucking Brixton?


According to the Belfast Telegraph they were meeting a group called "Divert" working with youth. Maybe they thought Pop Brixton a more "neutral" venue than Brixton Police Station?

Just my suggestion. There is a website for Divert. Not sure it will reassure you though. Milestone Foundation - Divert


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## editor (Nov 10, 2018)

The Village is teeming with DJs! Not very busy though and I can't say it's my idea of a night out. 

Not sure if the millionaire socialite was in residence to oversee his empire tonight. Anyone met him?


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## Winot (Nov 11, 2018)

The catalytic converter has been stolen from our car. There’s a gang targeting Brixton/Dulwich/Norwood area apparently. They chop it out from the exhaust and sell it for recovery of the platinum & rhodium it contains. Guy with the pickup truck said he’d picked up a dozen vehicles in this area in the last fortnight. 

Should be covered on insurance but a bit of a pain. There’s not much you can do to stop it.


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## brixtonblade (Nov 11, 2018)

Winot said:


> The catalytic converter has been stolen from our car. There’s a gang targeting Brixton/Dulwich/Norwood area apparently. They chop it out from the exhaust and sell it for recovery of the platinum & rhodium it contains. Guy with the pickup truck said he’d picked up a dozen vehicles in this area in the last fortnight.
> 
> Should be covered on insurance but a bit of a pain. There’s not much you can do to stop it.


That is very annoying.

Do all cars have them?


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## Winot (Nov 11, 2018)

brixtonblade said:


> That is very annoying.
> 
> Do all cars have them?



Not sure. I know fuck all about cars


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## alcopop (Nov 11, 2018)

T & P said:


> Barcelona is being torn apart by tourism but almost all of the problems are being caused by the explosion of rBnB apartments that have changed the fabric of many neighbourhoods by displacing locals and pushi
> 
> Tourism per se, so long as it does not reach the uncontrolled excess  numbers seen in Venice, is for the most part largely beneficial to many cities. The traditional hotel-based short.break tourism big cities like London receive every year is a vital s. And more to the point suggested upthread, it seems ludicrous to me to suggest tourists on a short visit to a given neighbourhood of a city should engage with the local community for two or three hours they’re going to be there, whatever that might mean. Never mind the issue of what exactly the tourists could do in such short period of time to achieve it.





brixtonblade said:


> That is very annoying.
> 
> Do all cars have them?


if they use leaded petrol then they won’t have them.


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## organicpanda (Nov 11, 2018)

alcopop said:


> if they use leaded petrol then they won’t have them.


didn't think you could still get leaded petrol


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## alcopop (Nov 11, 2018)

organicpanda said:


> didn't think you could still get leaded petrol


Don’t drive so no idea. 

I’m sure that Leaded petrol poisons the catalyst though.


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## Gramsci (Nov 11, 2018)

CH1 said:


> According to the Belfast Telegraph they were meeting a group called "Divert" working with youth. Maybe they thought Pop Brixton a more "neutral" venue than Brixton Police Station?
> 
> Just my suggestion. There is a website for Divert. Not sure it will reassure you though. Milestone Foundation - Divert



I thought this was to visit group dealing with helping young people turn away from knives and gang culture. The example on front page of website is someone who committed petty offence as they could not afford their rent.

Then "helped" to work on building site which they weren't keen on.

As if having a job will solve everything.


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## Gramsci (Nov 11, 2018)

CH1 said:


> So I wasn't going mad. Well not more than usual anyway.
> 
> These Press Association pictures capture the event, and the following article (in the Belfast Telgraph) seems to be the only news report so far:
> Javid urges ‘more leadership all round’ to stop children being drawn into crime - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
> ...



Dick had glowing interview in ES recently. Not a mention of her role in killing of an innocent Brazilian. I object to her coming to multicultural area like Brixton.


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## editor (Nov 11, 2018)

Some pics from Thursday night 






















In photos: Thursday night out in the Prince Albert and Prince of Wales, Brixton


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## CH1 (Nov 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Dick had glowing interview in ES recently. Not a mention of her role in killing of an innocent Brazilian. I object to her coming to multicultural area like Brixton.


Wasn't she in charge here in Lambeth a few years ago? When we had a Community/Police Consultative Group I mean.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Dick had glowing interview in ES recently. Not a mention of her role in killing of an innocent Brazilian. I object to her coming to multicultural area like Brixton.


I object to her full stop


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## editor (Nov 12, 2018)

Photos from Friday's free show at the Effra






















Effra Social party night in photos: The Majestic live and Brixton Buzz DJs rock the floor, Fri 9th Nov 2018


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 12, 2018)

Hi editor, is this thread going on forever, I thought you said it was going to be quarterly?


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## editor (Nov 12, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Hi editor, is this thread going on forever, I thought you said it was going to be quarterly?


I went for a summer-into autumn number, but I could make a new mid-autumn - winter one if that's what people want?


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## The Fornicator (Nov 12, 2018)

organicpanda said:


> didn't think you could still get leaded petrol


Not since the Millennium, so almost 20 years.


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## hungry_squirrel (Nov 13, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> IMO there should be 2 exits from the tube. Residents and non residents. Those coming through the non-residents channel “for the food/booze/craic” with no intention of making a “community connection” should be marched back down the escalator and returned to where they came from.



I know this is from a few days back, but come on - what a pompous bloody comment...


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## Mr Retro (Nov 13, 2018)

hungry_squirrel said:


> I know this is from a few days back, but come on - what a pompous bloody comment...


Pompous how?


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## alcopop (Nov 13, 2018)

hungry_squirrel said:


> I know this is from a few days back, but come on - what a pompous bloody comment...


Maybe reserve the lift for “community connectors “? Give them a glass of wine and a massage?


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## editor (Nov 13, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Pompous how?


You don't even live here, and you only come into this forum to sneer and try to make personal digs. It's all a bit pathetic really.

And on that note, I'll make the new thread for mid-autumn to winter.

Here: Brixton news, rumours and general chat: Autumn - Winter 2018


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