# Dr Who "series 11" - Jodie, Chibnall, etc



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2017)

So we need a new thread, right?



Here's the latest rumour that I've heard:

"The BBC1 series will run for 10 weeks rather than the usual 12 or 13, but each programme will last a full hour instead of 45 minutes."​
OK, we'll see how that works out.

"Expect something fresh and brilliant, with more of the stories travelling backwards in time, to interesting historical eras, as well as forwards".​
Now, that I approve of. Cool.

Rumour: Series 11 To Have Fewer but Longer Eps, New TARDIS & Sonic | Doctor Who TV


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## krtek a houby (Oct 11, 2017)

_Fans, many of whom are primary school kids, prefer to watch the show in its traditional teatime slot rather in peaktime._ 

Eh?

_The last series, in 2016, aired in the springtime to avoid Strictly altogether._

Eh? Did it not air this year?

Also, must the sonic screwdriver remain? Can't a tereleptil destroy it once more?

Otherwise, cool.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2017)

earlier airing time is better. Bollocks to primary school kids, halfpast 7 on a saturday and I'm usually impaired


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## Silas Loom (Oct 11, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> "Expect something fresh and brilliant, with more of the stories travelling backwards in time, to interesting historical eras, as well as forwards".​



Hmm. I don't mind a campy, 1066 and all that, historical backdrop as long as there are still aliens and paradoxes involved. The straight histories were binned for a reason.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2017)

Well there will have to be daleks, its in the rules.


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## lazythursday (Oct 11, 2017)

Silas Loom said:


> Hmm. I don't mind a campy, 1066 and all that, historical backdrop as long as there are still aliens and paradoxes involved. The straight histories were binned for a reason.


I hope we avoid campy in this new series with a new tone of realism tbh - whether that's in historical episodes or alien planets. Anyway I like the idea of hour long episodes, it gives much more time for plot and developing characters (something Chibnall seems generally good at).


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## Silas Loom (Oct 11, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Well there will have to be daleks, its in the rules.



Sick of them now. I'm even sick of cybermen, and they were always my absolute favourite.


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 11, 2017)

Yay, more episodes set on historical Earth. We've never had episodes set there.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2017)

lazythursday said:


> a new tone of realism


no


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## Silas Loom (Oct 11, 2017)

lazythursday said:


> plot and developing characters (something Chibnall seems generally good at).



The evidence so far, at least from Broadchurch, is that he is capable on characters and abysmal on plot.


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## rubbershoes (Oct 11, 2017)

I want the whole series set in a quarry, with the doctor receiving assistance from mustachioed men in olive jumpers


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## Santino (Oct 11, 2017)

They have to show a Dalek every year in order to retain their rights to use them.


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## Lazy Llama (Oct 11, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> _Fans, many of whom are primary school kids, prefer to watch the show in its traditional teatime slot rather in peaktime._
> 
> Eh?
> 
> ...


Yes, getting things like when the last series was on is pretty basic. 

And the "traditional teatime slot"? That was when classis Who was on, 17:25, I seem to remember? Last time it was on then was in the 80's wasn't it? Xmas Specials excepted.

So which primary school kids have been held back so many times that they can remember the 1980's?


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## Silas Loom (Oct 11, 2017)

Lazy Llama said:


> Last time it was on then was in the 80's wasn't it?
> 
> So which primary school kids have been held back so many times that they can remember the 1980's?



Was it? My recollection is 19:30 on Tuesdays and Thursdays in the fifth/sixth Doctor era.


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## Lazy Llama (Oct 11, 2017)

Silas Loom said:


> Was it? My recollection is 19:30 on Tuesdays and Thursdays in the fifth/sixth Doctor era.


Yes, changed to those times during the fifth. After 18 years at Saturday teatime.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2017)

so its been airing at around 7 for most of its 50 odd years then. Are there objections to a return to teatime airing? Its not like I'm watching for violence or profanity.


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## jannerboyuk (Oct 11, 2017)

A couple of years with no daleks/cybermen would be very welcome


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## Silas Loom (Oct 11, 2017)

No repeat monsters at all, if possible. The diminishing returns from the weepng angels were particularly tawdry.


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## krtek a houby (Oct 12, 2017)

jannerboyuk said:


> A couple of years with no daleks/cybermen would be very welcome



Yup. The best exception to this was the Mondasian Cybermen in the standout ep of the season. Part didn't live up to the promise of the first and I wish when the upgrades appeared they could have been an earlier incarnation; say, Revenge of the Cybermen era.


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 12, 2017)




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## Balbi (Oct 12, 2017)

Maybe this year we'll finally have the Doctor arriving at Cable Street in 1936 and bashing the fash


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## krtek a houby (Oct 12, 2017)

Balbi said:


> Maybe this year we'll finally have the Doctor arriving at Cable Street in 1936 and bashing the fash



That would be an historical ep that I'd really like to see. Sounds like something that would have ocurred during the 7th Doctor and Ace's stint...


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## danny la rouge (Oct 12, 2017)

I'd quite like the Doctor to meet her Aztec fiancée, Cameca.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Well there will have to be daleks, its in the rules.



The question is: Will the Daleks be able to _grok_ a female Doctor?


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## DotCommunist (Oct 12, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> The question is: Will the Daleks be able to _grok_ a female Doctor?


canon would suggest that every regeneration is new to the Daleks until they update their evil network. Remember when Ecclescake met that Dalek in the yankee collectors museum and it didn't know The Doc till he said he was. 'DOCTOR? THE DOCTOR! YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF' etc etc


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## Poi E (Oct 12, 2017)

Top geeking there.


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## Steel Icarus (Oct 12, 2017)

I want more Zygons, and for them to be actually scary. Last time they were on they just reminded me of the Curious Oranj from This Morning with Richard not Judy.


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## Steel Icarus (Oct 12, 2017)

But what I want more than anything are monsters that don't turn out to be not-evil after all.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 12, 2017)

they got away with that on the frozen thames one by giving us the death of a racist aristo.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 12, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> Yup. The best exception to this was the Mondasian Cybermen in the standout ep of the season. Part didn't live up to the promise of the first and I wish when the upgrades appeared they could have been an earlier incarnation; say, Revenge of the Cybermen era.



Props budget init.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 12, 2017)

S☼I said:


> I want more Zygons, and for them to be actually scary. Last time they were on they just reminded me of the Curious Oranj from This Morning with Richard not Judy.



Fucking Curious Oranj was WELL scary, especially when the cunt screamed!!!


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## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2017)

Wow on page 2 already and filming hasn't even started yet, hopefully they will announce the companion soon and give us something to discuss.


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## krtek a houby (Oct 13, 2017)

In the meantime; what do you the viewer want from the new series

What do YOU want from Doctor Who series 11?
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-10-12/what-do-you-want-from-doctor-who-series-11/
Choices are a bit limited, mind


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 13, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Wow on page 2 already and filming hasn't even started yet, hopefully they will announce the companion soon and give us something to discuss.



I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but the companion is 



Spoiler



Bradley fucking Walsh


.


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## Silas Loom (Oct 13, 2017)

It's impossible to tell what a companion will be like in advance. Catherine Tate and Matt Lucas were both pleasant surprises. Walsh might do well.


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## krtek a houby (Oct 13, 2017)

Silas Loom said:


> It's impossible to tell what a companion will be like in advance. Catherine Tate and Matt Lucas were both pleasant surprises. Walsh might do well.



Tate became one of my favourites and after the initial balking at Lucas he came into his own in the last series. I reserve judgement until I see the next series, whenever the hell that is...


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## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not,


Not, haven't heard about any confirmation from the bbc yet.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Not, haven't heard about any confirmation from the bbc yet.


Indeed. The Bradley Walsh story only has rumour status at the moment. Remember how pervasive the story was that the Doctor was going to be Kriss Marshall? That turned out to be untrue.


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## Balbi (Oct 14, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> That would be an historical ep that I'd really like to see. Sounds like something that would have ocurred during the 7th Doctor and Ace's stint...



*coughs* I gave it a go once. Aliens attempting to influence pre-war politics, Doctor assumes they're controlling Moseley and the fash but it turns out they're fucking mystified by them - both join forces to give them both a good kicking.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2017)

I'm inclined to disbelieve the Bradley Walsh rumor because he will be busy with the Chase and probably panto


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## gosub (Oct 14, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> In the meantime; what do you the viewer want from the new series
> 
> What do YOU want from Doctor Who series 11?
> Choices are a bit limited, mind


no be a woman wandering around Salem waving a "wand" option


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 14, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm inclined to disbelieve the Bradley Walsh rumor because he will be busy with the Chase and probably panto



And he's a gurning fucknut cuntbubble.


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## ginger_syn (Oct 15, 2017)

An entertaining one though, and he can sing.


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## krtek a houby (Oct 15, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm inclined to disbelieve the Bradley Walsh rumor because he will be busy with the Chase and probably panto



Oh no he won't


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## CNT36 (Oct 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm inclined to disbelieve the Bradley Walsh rumor because he will be busy with the Chase and probably panto


With HoloCushing?


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## DotCommunist (Oct 16, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> An entertaining one though, and he can sing.


he's an entertainer of the old school, does a little bit of everything. Wouldn't be suprised to see a tap dance or three from him


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## DotCommunist (Oct 16, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> With HoloCushing?


and holoPac


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## belboid (Oct 23, 2017)

Bradley is confirmed

Doctor Who Jodie Whittaker pictured with her new cast


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## ginger_syn (Oct 23, 2017)

I like the idea of three companions,I know walsh can act and I think he'll be a good fit in the tardis,  as for the other two actors I've not seen them in anything that I can remember but will be looking forward to the new series next year.


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## krtek a houby (Oct 23, 2017)

Doctor Who backlash is real, claims a "fan" on the internet. 

I can't wait until the series comes out and everyone calms down and realises that yes, it's another series of your favourite show with duff episodes and occasional brilliance


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## Steel Icarus (Oct 23, 2017)

I don't mind Bradley Walsh and think the dynamics might be interesting.


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## jusali (Oct 23, 2017)

Oh no Bradley Walsh


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## CNT36 (Oct 23, 2017)

belboid said:


> Bradley is confirmed
> 
> Doctor Who Jodie Whittaker pictured with her new cast


This is something I've wanted for a while but the timings ominous.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> This is something I've wanted for a while but the timings ominous.


You've wanted to see Jodie pictured with her cast for a while? But the timing is ominous?

Can you talk us through this? I feel like I'm missing a great deal. (As usual).


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## CNT36 (Oct 23, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> You've wanted to see Jodie pictured with her cast for a while? But the timing is ominous?
> 
> Can you talk us through this? I feel like I'm missing a great deal. (As usual).


Not being the Doctor and one companion plus a boyfriend or robot.


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## Silas Loom (Oct 23, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Not being the Doctor and one companion plus a boyfriend or robot.



How do you know none of them are robots? Matt Lucas doesn't look much like one, either.


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## CNT36 (Oct 23, 2017)

Silas Loom said:


> How do you know none of them are robots? Matt Lucas doesn't look much like one, either.


Two of them would need to be.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Not being the Doctor and one companion plus a boyfriend or robot.


OK, agreed. I like the idea too. It's very Susan, Barbara and Ian. 

What's the ominous thing?


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## ginger_syn (Oct 24, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> This is something I've wanted for a while but the timings ominous.


How is it ominous?


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## innit (Oct 24, 2017)

Lazy Llama said:


> Yes, getting things like when the last series was on is pretty basic.
> 
> And the "traditional teatime slot"? That was when classis Who was on, 17:25, I seem to remember? Last time it was on then was in the 80's wasn't it? Xmas Specials excepted.
> 
> So which primary school kids have been held back so many times that they can remember the 1980's?


Maybe they know what time children are actually watching it (time shifted)?


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## Balbi (Nov 2, 2017)

Looks like man inside Daleks has exterminated his career...

'Doctor Who' Magazine Writer Fired After Branding BBC Worldwide 'C***s' In Hidden Message


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## strung out (Nov 2, 2017)

Balbi said:


> Looks like man inside Daleks has exterminated his career...
> 
> 'Doctor Who' Magazine Writer Fired After Branding BBC Worldwide 'C***s' In Hidden Message


Hoho 

I suspect I know what this is about


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## Silas Loom (Nov 2, 2017)

strung out said:


> Hoho
> 
> I suspect I know what this is about



Stephen Pollard has regenerated?


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## Steel Icarus (Nov 2, 2017)

strung out said:


> Hoho
> 
> I suspect I know what this is about


I suspect I know how you know


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## 03gills (Nov 5, 2017)

The move to 10x50 is a canny one, it's probably going to mean a shorter shoot for each series because it's not likely going to take any longer to film an individual episode (the extra 5 minutes will more likely come from the person in the edit suite simply having a bit more freedom) & makes a series every year a more doable prospect without melting the showrunner. 

Interestingly, it would also mean that a 2 part story would be the same length as an old 4 part serial & a 3-parter would be the same length as a old 6 part finale.


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## Gromit (Nov 5, 2017)

Okay so I've binged watched the entire series. 

Jodie started off dreadful and got worse. 

Hated all the companions and was glad when each one died aside from Billy Connolly. He was the only good thing. 

Pink tardis ffs what were they thinking?


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## Santino (Nov 9, 2017)

Fuck off, Gromit.


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## Santino (Nov 9, 2017)

Braces and the rainbow stripe look like something left over from Colin Baker's time.


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## ruffneck23 (Nov 9, 2017)

just seen this, not quite sure what to think , its a bit Mork


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## Silas Loom (Nov 9, 2017)

Very sensible clothes if you might at any point be called upon to introduce Rod, Jane & Freddy, or referee a squabble between Zippy and George.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 9, 2017)




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## ruffneck23 (Nov 9, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


>


exactly


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## not-bono-ever (Nov 9, 2017)

nanoo nanoo


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## Silas Loom (Nov 9, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> nanoo nanoo



Perhaps we're going to return to the RTD glory years, when almost every episode was mawkish to some degree.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 9, 2017)

There are apparently "some unusual earrings, at the top and bottom of her left ear".  I've tried zooming in, but there's not enough definition to see if they're sonic, or feature the Seal of Rassilon, or what might be "unusual" about them. 

Hey @BBC, close ups please!


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## DotCommunist (Nov 9, 2017)

Would the doctor wear the Seal in any form? she's a rebel from all that surely

and I like the coat.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 9, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Would the doctor wear the Seal in any form? she's a rebel from all that surely
> 
> and I like the coat.


I want to know what's unusual!!!!!!!!!


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## danny la rouge (Nov 9, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> just seen this, not quite sure what to think , its a bit Mork


Maybe she'll do an episode with Fonzie.


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## killer b (Nov 9, 2017)

Disappointing (but not at all surprising) that they wen't for the _Preschool Children's TV Presenter_ look for the first female doctor.


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## ginger_syn (Nov 9, 2017)

Not a fan of the trousers, but overall not to bad. Really like the new tardis exterior.


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## spanglechick (Nov 9, 2017)

I love it.  Eccentric, as is appropriate, but not so much as to be incongruous on the modern high street.  

Feminine, but neither girly nor sexualised. Pragmatic for running and climbing.  

If my boobs didn't make it impossible, I'd wear the fuck out of the jumper and braces combo.  I might look for the jumper anyway.

I hate the coat, though.  It's a bog-standard ugly "middle aged woman" anorak.  Longer length, but otherwise entirely lacking in any theatricality.


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 10, 2017)

I LOVE the outfit. I am going to be hunting down some kind of jumper or t-shirt with that stripe post haste. I really don't have the figure for bracers though. She looks great.

spanglechick - I'm fine with the shape of the coat but that piping is... questionable. Liking the length of it though, considering I just bought myself an ankle-length coat the day before this picture released  (nothing like hers - mine's some weird green corduroy military Breakfast Club-esque type godknowswhat)


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## danny la rouge (Dec 2, 2017)

I've been rewatching The Tenth Planet in preparation for Twice Upon A Time.

It's brilliantly shonky. The 1966 depiction of the 1980s is fab. It's like the 1960s, but with the most futuristic phone handset on sale at the time. 

Given that the new Doctor is going to be regenerating into this story (I assume), she need to be aware of the attitudes. The Earth has been invaded by Cybermen, the planet Mondas has appeared in the sky and is sapping all the energy from Earth, an unhinged army officer is planning on launching the Z Bomb against Mondas, endangering the Earth. In the heat of the crisis Polly demands to help.

"Don't be silly, what can you do?" Replies one of the base's scientists,
"I could make coffee" she suggests.
"Oh, alright then".


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## danny la rouge (Dec 2, 2017)

New filmic look for series 11.

New camera!

Fancy lens!

Anamorphic zoom!

Doctor Who News - New Filmic Look for Series Eleven


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## krtek a houby (Dec 3, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> New filmic look for series 11.
> 
> New camera!
> 
> ...



"Composer *Murray Gold* is also to leave after this year's Christmas Special, but this has not been confirmed by the BBC."

I hope it's true. Consistently intruding overbearing turgid shite score.


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## ginger_syn (Dec 4, 2017)

I'll be sad to see him leave, I've enjoyed his music and so have my grandkids,  he's written some really lovely pieces of music for the show and I've been lucky enough to not have any of the dialogue drowned out by music that some have suffered from, hope the next person is just as good.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 4, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> I'll be sad to see him leave, I've enjoyed his music and so have my grandkids,  he's written some really lovely pieces of music for the show and I've been lucky enough to not have any of the dialogue drowned out by music that some have suffered from, hope the next person is just as good.



Ugh, no, all that signposting. No, sorry - the only time he excelled was (IMHO) when John Simm's master was doing the drumming thing with his fingers.

Give the Radiophonic Workshop any day...


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## ginger_syn (Dec 5, 2017)

I like both.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 6, 2017)

"The UK broadcast time for Doctor Who’s 2017 Christmas special has today been finalised.

*Twice Upon A Time *will premiere at 5.30pm, Monday 25 December on BBC One".

Capaldi's Final Episode Dated – Christmas Day Time Slot Confirmed | Doctor Who TV

ETA In the following link there are spoilers in the pics for people who haven't seen the trailer or any publicity. 

Twice Upon A Time Promo Pics | Doctor Who TV


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## DotCommunist (Dec 6, 2017)

oh good, nice and early. They said thats going to be the new thing, teatime rather than 7-8 oclock


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 6, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> "The UK broadcast time for Doctor Who’s 2017 Christmas special has today been finalised.
> 
> *Twice Upon A Time *will premiere at 5.30pm, Monday 25 December on BBC One".
> 
> ...



MAJOR SPOILERS in those promo pics

 at self for clicking


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## danny la rouge (Dec 6, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> MAJOR SPOILERS in those promo pics
> 
> at self for clicking


Sorry. There's nothing I didn't already know from the trailers. But, yes, if you haven't heard anything about the episode...

I'll edit.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2017)

Latest trailer. Obviously don't click if you don't want to know stuff.  It's spoilerific.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 9, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> "The UK broadcast time for Doctor Who’s 2017 Christmas special has today been finalised.
> 
> *Twice Upon A Time *will premiere at 5.30pm, Monday 25 December on BBC One".
> 
> ...


Bah, I'll be in Bulgaria. How do I watch it there?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 9, 2017)

Has nobody posted the preview yet???


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2017)

Spoiler








nice preview thing


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Has nobody posted the preview yet???



you beat me to it


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 9, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> you beat me to it


Been up for three weeks!!

The daughter and I have been enjoying it. Sad to see capaldi go.
He's my daughter's favorite, and oddly she also highly rated the first doctor. Those two paired with the doctor becoming a woman is going to make her lose her mind.


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2017)

I only discovered it from the trailer link above


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## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Has nobody posted the preview yet???



I thought I had. But maybe I just made a note to then didn't. Anyway, it's good. Nice gags.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 17, 2017)

Xmas episode clip: 



Spoiler: Spoily woily timey wimey


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## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2017)

So her first line "oh, brilliant!"

Great start. I can't wait. Wait. _How_ long? 

Get a move on!


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## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2017)

That regeneration again:


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## Gromit (Dec 25, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> So her first line "oh, brilliant!"
> 
> Great start. I can't wait. Wait. _How_ long?
> 
> Get a move on!


She didn’t display much range in my opinion.


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## Santino (Dec 27, 2017)

Fuck off, Gromit


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## krtek a houby (Apr 4, 2018)

Russell T in potential fan wind up

Russell T Davies has created new incarnations of the Doctor beyond Jodie Whittaker


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## ginger_syn (Apr 5, 2018)

I am looking forward to getting those books.


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## ginger_syn (Apr 5, 2018)

Just finished reading rose, and it is very good, well worth a read for fans,  the additional info on various characters works very naturally and I'm now looking forward to the  others.


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## cupid_stunt (May 15, 2018)

The landlord at my favorite micro-pub, The Anchored Inn Worthing, has outed himself as a Dr Who fan with the new entrance...

 

The thing is, it isn't a Tardis, it's only slightly bigger than my living room!


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## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2018)

First Series 11 "Teaser":


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## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2018)




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## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2018)




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## ginger_syn (Jul 16, 2018)

It was a nice little tease even though i had to watch as much as 5 minutes of football waffle becore it came on.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 16, 2018)

Uh oh, I'm getting worried I'm not going to like it. This along with the leaked clip (which was excruciating) makes  it look more like the Sarah Jane Mysteries. Please be wrong.


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## mwgdrwg (Jul 16, 2018)

Bradley fucking Walsh.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Uh oh, I'm getting worried I'm not going to like it. This along with the leaked clip (which was excruciating) makes  it look more like the Sarah Jane Mysteries. Please be wrong.


The clip mainly looked like the onset of a migraine, Tbf.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 16, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The clip mainly looked like the onset of a migraine, Tbf.


I do realise I have not seen much and that it may have even been an edit or performance that might be scrapped, but that new teaser is mega shit on every level bar 1981.


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## Gromit (Jul 16, 2018)

So the new Doctor is also The Flash?
Am I reading this trailer right?


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## Santino (Jul 16, 2018)

Fuck off, Gromit


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Am I reading this trailer right?



Given that you're you, almost certainly not.


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## ginger_syn (Jul 16, 2018)

Really, nobody feeling positive or hopeful, I am


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## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Really, nobody feeling positive or hopeful, I am


ATOMIC SUPLEX _always_ says he's not going to like the next series.  I wouldn't pay too much attention.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I do realise I have not seen much and that it may have even been an edit or performance that might be scrapped, but that new teaser is mega shit on every level bar 1981.


It's probably not a scene. It'll be a made-for-trailer sequence. The BBC is all about that these days.


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## Santino (Jul 16, 2018)

I'm going to like it even if it's shit, just for the pleasure of irritating some idiots on the internet.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2018)

Apparently in america Beano is a fart medicine, for excessive wind. Found this out reading american whovians dissecting the trailer/promo/thing

I am looking forward to it, no official airdate yet according to RT (not that one) but autumn they say.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 16, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Really, nobody feeling positive or hopeful, I am



Me too, it should be interesting.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 16, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Me too, it should be interesting.





ginger_syn said:


> Really, nobody feeling positive or hopeful, I am


I was but the trailer and the leaked scene have sucked it out of me. I should get my daughter to watch them, she's eagerly watching the chase just because she knows Walsh is going to be in it. She's very positive about it all.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 16, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> ATOMIC SUPLEX _always_ says he's not going to like the next series.  I wouldn't pay too much attention.


I was looking forward to capaldi, and especially his last Christmas special. I even said I was looking forward to this next new series. . . I'm just unhopefull after what in have seen today.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 16, 2018)

Ok but I'm coming from the position of  thinking absolutely not whenever the possibility of a female doctor was mentioned to, after seeing these few snippets to thinking that jodie Whittaker could be good in the role which is a positive for me


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Ok but I'm coming from the position of  thinking absolutely not whenever the possibility of a female doctor was mentioned to, after seeing these few snippets to thinking that jodie Whittaker could be good in the role which is a positive for me


What exactly in the one point five seconds of her smiling into the camera in the teaser trailer convinced you?

Or are there additional snippets you've seen?


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 17, 2018)

Yes.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 17, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Really, nobody feeling positive or hopeful, I am



I would but Netflix have dropped Doctor Who. Still haven't seen the Xmas episode. Up until that, hadn't missed an epidsode since 1978


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 17, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Apparently in america Beano is a fart medicine, for excessive wind. Found this out reading american whovians dissecting the trailer/promo/thing
> 
> I am looking forward to it, no official airdate yet according to RT (not that one) but autumn they say.



But their actual president is called 'Trump'.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> I would but Netflix have dropped Doctor Who.


Not on my account: they've still got ten series, and seem to have added more episodes since I last looked.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2018)

you're on netflix scotland, he's on netflix japan

in the US netflix ismuch better than here(uk) apparently. more films and stuff.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> you're on netflix scotland, he's on netflix japan
> 
> in the US netflix ismuch better than here(uk) apparently. more films and stuff.


Yeah, when I caught up with the platform (late adopter as ever) I was surprised that the "flix" part of the name didn't seem to mean films!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 17, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Not on my account: they've still got ten series, and seem to have added more episodes since I last looked.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 17, 2018)

You can watch classic Doctor Who on Twitch these days.

Twitch | Doctor Who


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 17, 2018)

Been following the twitter for that, its been a joy


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> You can watch classic Doctor Who on Twitch these days.
> 
> Twitch | Doctor Who


Is Twitch like Netflix? I haven't heard of it before. (I just looked at Wikipedia and I'm still not very clear).


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 17, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Is Twitch like Netflix? I haven't heard of it before. (I just looked at Wikipedia and I'm still not very clear).


It's mostly for people broadcasting their gaming sessions, owned by Amazon, so aimed at user-produced live content.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> It's mostly for people broadcasting their gaming sessions, owned by Amazon, so aimed at user-produced live content.


Good grief. Thanks, that's all I need to know.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 17, 2018)

Have a look at #DoctorWhoOnTwitch on twitter, theres a lot of love for classic who.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2018)

there is a new sonic screwdriver apparently, leaked stills from the sets show it. New TARDIS interior as well I presume, always interesting to see what variant they do on the themes


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 17, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> It's mostly for people broadcasting their gaming sessions, owned by Amazon, so aimed at user-produced live content.


Is it possible to just watch it on my smart telly without anyone else talking to me? 
Do I need to download something?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I am looking forward to it, no official airdate yet according to RT (not that one) but autumn they say.


Cover picture and quite a big feature, including interviews with the new "friends" (as companions will henceforth be known) this week.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 17, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Is it possible to just watch it on my smart telly without anyone else talking to me?
> Do I need to download something?


There are Twitch apps for Android, Xbox One, PS4, Chromecast and FireTV. As far as I know you should be able to hide comments etc so you just watch the broadcast. The schedule of what’s showing when is given in the Twitch link above.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 17, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> There are Twitch apps for Android, Xbox One, PS4, Chromecast and FireTV. As far as I know you should be able to hide comments etc so you just watch the broadcast. The schedule of what’s showing when is given in the Twitch link above.


So I can't do it on the telly? Do you have to pay for it?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 17, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> So I can't do it on the telly? Do you have to pay for it?


Depends on the telly, I guess. Twitch is free.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 17, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Depends on the telly, I guess. Twitch is free.


I have smart TV that does chrome cast and stuff. iPlayer you tube etc. I think I can type in internet addresses but it's a bit limited.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 17, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I have smart TV that does chrome cast and stuff. iPlayer you tube etc. I think I can type in internet addresses but it's a bit limited.


Try the link above (Twitch | Doctor Who) and see what you can see on the TV. It works on mobile browsers so might be okay on your telly too


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 18, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Try the link above (Twitch | Doctor Who) and see what you can see on the TV. It works on mobile browsers so might be okay on your telly too


Bah, didn't work. Can get to the screen but it doesn't see the player.


----------



## lazythursday (Jul 18, 2018)

If the TV does chromecast you should be able to cast it from your PC surely?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 18, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> If the TV does chromecast you should be able to cast it from your PC surely?


Well from my tablet. The cast is a bit shit though. The picture quality does not look as good as if the telly dials it up itself (like in you tube).


----------



## lazythursday (Jul 18, 2018)

Yeah your tablet won't be powerful enough. Would be better if not perfect from a PC. Does the twitch app have Chromecast?


----------



## lazythursday (Jul 19, 2018)

New, much better trailer:


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 19, 2018)

yes


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 20, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> there is a new sonic screwdriver apparently


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 20, 2018)

Looks like something from Stargate SG1


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 20, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 141686


Ugh. 
At least it's not sonic sunglasses. 
If they give her a sonic compact I'm committing suicide.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jul 20, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ugh.
> At least it's not sonic sunglasses.
> If they give her a sonic compact I'm committing suicide.


That's a hostage to fortune, wasn't there a sonic lipstick in the Sarah Jane Adventures (I haven't watched them)?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 20, 2018)

PursuedByBears said:


> That's a hostage to fortune, wasn't there a sonic lipstick in the Sarah Jane Adventures (I haven't watched them)?



Oh shit I think there was. 
SJA wasn't at all bad in the context of a childrens show. The fact it had loads of kids as assistants and it all only took place in a house / street in London (I think) has to be overlooked to an extent. Not sure why SJ had all that tech though. I guess it was some sort of follow on from the K9 and company set up. 
I was pretty pissed off she moved out of Croydon though.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 20, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> Looks like something from Stargate SG1


 looks like a Predators finger.


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 20, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 141686


Phone home!


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2018)

New series kicks off on Sunday 7th October!


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2018)

Doctor Who to move from Saturdays to Sundays for new era — Radio Times


----------



## cybershot (Sep 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> New series kicks off on Sunday 7th October!



The move to a Sunday is interesting. Already giving themselves an explanation for viewing figures, whether they be greater or poorer, rather than letting it go at the same spot it has been for years.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 5, 2018)

cybershot said:


> The move to a Sunday is interesting. Already giving themselves an explanation for viewing figures, whether they be greater or poorer, rather than letting it go at the same spot it has been for years.



Hopefully it'll have a fixed start time now. It's been jumping around on the Saturday night for years.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 5, 2018)

Not a post I expected to make, but I wish Bungle was back for this.  You might remember he was mightily upset about a woman taking over. I'd be genuinely interested to see how people with those views react. Presumably most will get over themselves and find the sky didn't fall in after a couple of episodes, whereas hard line misogynists and assorted barmpots will bang on about cultural Marxism or something.

I imagine the programme itself will spend a fair bit of time on the gender change. Hope its not too heavy handed though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 141686



Looks a bit too much like a gun of some kind.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 5, 2018)

Wilf said:


> I imagine the programme itself will spend a fair bit of time on the gender change. Hope its not too heavy handed though.



They handled it quickly and fairly quietly (apart from once or twice) with Missy. One of the best new elements of Dr Who. Shame she has gone forever, (has she?).


----------



## Santino (Sep 5, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> They handled it quickly and fairly quietly (apart from once or twice) with Missy. One of the best new elements of Dr Who. Shame she has gone forever, (has she?).


She's only gone when a new actor turns up as the Master/Missy. But even then she might come back like John Simm did.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 5, 2018)

all the masters can come back from some point previous to their death because time travel. You could have a three masters special. With the living ones.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2018)

Wilf said:


> I imagine the programme itself will spend a fair bit of time on the gender change.


I don't think they will. A couple of gags early on maybe.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2018)




----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 5, 2018)

the hagreaves crossover is here which I will once again (like when the other who/mre men books were released) admire but not buy because Mr Men is for kids and I don't really need ornament books no matter how I might WANT them:


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 5, 2018)

Santino said:


> She's only gone when a new actor turns up as the Master/Missy. But even then she might come back like John Simm did.


Yeah, but he (himself) killed her killed her, mid regeneration, and they have (sort of) said we have seen all the versions of the master. Either way I just want missy back.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> but he (himself) killed her killed her, mid regeneration


Time loop!


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 5, 2018)

Over the summer I watched the entirety of new who.  It's given me a new perspective on the decline.


----------



## Santino (Sep 5, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah, but he (himself) killed her killed her, mid regeneration, and they have (sort of) said we have seen all the versions of the master. Either way I just want missy back.


Yes, they definitely won't bring back an incredibly popular character. Remember when they killed the Doctor off because he only had 13 lives?


----------



## lazythursday (Sep 5, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Over the summer I watched the entirety of new who.  It's given me a new perspective on the decline.


What's your new perspective? I've thought of rewatching, but not sure if I could watch through the dross episodes like Fear Her and the one with the moon again. But I'd sort of like to rewatch Matt Smith's era because I missed some of it and struggled to follow the convoluted plots, but not sure that would be easier the second time around or not...


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 5, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> What's your new perspective? I've thought of rewatching, but not sure if I could watch through the dross episodes like Fear Her and the one with the moon again. But I'd sort of like to rewatch Matt Smith's era because I missed some of it and struggled to follow the convoluted plots, but not sure that would be easier the second time around or not...



This is goingg to be long.  I make no apologies. 


The one with an alien kids' choir saving the day (early Clara) was the only one I skipped.  


So, when you go back to the RTD era it's so bloody good.  Great mix of comedy and genuine emotion, recurring characters used in decent amounts... really scary moments.  Bad Wolf was a brilliant season arc, and for all that I got a bit fed up with Rose moping, the battle of Canary Wharf / alternate universe stuff was fresh and fun.  Tennant rules the new Who doctors, as a result of his storylines and his acting ability both being best.  The Martha season is a mixed bag.  The Shakespeare Code is bloody brilliant; as is family of blood and, of course Blink; and Simm as Saxon as the master is brilliant.  But the Toclophane finale with Marha walking the earth is RTD's nadir.  It's too much of all his worst tendencies.  Donna is still a great companion, but the turn left arc is the weakest of RTD's in that it feels a bit heavy handed as a concept. There are loads of great episodes, but weak points including the Agatha Christie nonsense.  That said, the dystopia with Bernard Cribbins raging against internment camps is a chilling - if not very kid friendly episode.  
The tennant solo eps are really interesting. Waters of Mars, with its suicide ending is pretty sophisticated storytelling.  The master's return is generally pants, but the tremendous depth of affection between Cribbins and Tennant is the most compelling and touching relationship in all of new who.  It allows RTD to get away with  his overblown goodbye.  

Now looking back, at the time I hated Moffat's time from the start, but actually I was just a bit wrong-footed. His first season and a half are pretty bloody good. It's a huge sea-change from Tennant/RTD, in the Moffat made the show primarily for children - which I don't think RTD ever really did.  Children are everywhere in Moffat, especially at the start.  The tardis is even a brighter blue.  The time crack is a nice concept, and the Stonehenge pile on is a nice idea.  My perspective now it that one of the biggest problems, where Moffat started falling apart, is River...


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 5, 2018)

... River's brand of sassiness wears thin easily, and while the out of sequence stuff is nice, once we discover her backstory, the show has completely fucked the shark.  There is some good stuff in that second series: the rights of AI "gangers" is interesting (but Moffat brings up this issue over and over from this season onwards).  The third Rory and Amy season (starting with the impossible spaceman) is a hot mess.  The companions are now part time, which is a weakness when it later happens with Clara and with Bill, because we end up having to know too much about their real lives.  The home life stuff is universally thinly written.  Matt Smith's ending, from Trensilor through to being the protector of a town called Christmas, is a twisty turny nonsense of self-referential dullness.  

Once Capaldi turns up, the show is largely a lost cause.  Vastra and Jenny are brilliant, but it means that we spend a lot of time in Victorian England.  Clara hates the Doctor for almost all their first season together, and capaldi to start with plays a very dour old man.  I had forgotten both of these things.  He gets much more playful in his second season but it stirs oddly, especially the sunglasses and electric guitar.  Danny Pink and his death should have been touching.  RTD would've made us care.  But we don't. However Missy is great and Chris Addison as the afterlife civil servant.  
Clara's own exit is ties up in the Ashilda / immortality storyline which again should have been better.  It felt rushed and undeveloped.  

The Bill Potts season is Capaldi's best by a country mile, but the individual stories are almost all totally forgettable. River Song's final episode is genuinely touching (as a character she works much better without all the silly "cougar" stuff - Capaldi feels like her match, but it's too little too late. Moffat's heart hasn't been in it for years and Capaldi was shamefully misused.  

So yeah.  At the time I was too mean about Smith to start with, and too kind about Capaldi.  But the biggest realisations were the severity of the decline under Moffat, but also the clear point at which it all went wrong, and how truly dreadful it is by the end.  I'm so, so cross with Moffat.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 5, 2018)

Santino said:


> Yes, they definitely won't bring back an incredibly popular character. Remember when they killed the Doctor off because he only had 13 lives?


I know. I suppose. just wish they wouldn't do the 'this time it really is it' shit.


----------



## lazythursday (Sep 5, 2018)

Great summary spanglechick . I think I'd feel much the same if I rewatched. RTD had his excesses at times but the show packed a real emotional punch in those early days - and even later days eg the final episode with Donna. But I don't think I've ever really cared about _any_ of Moffat's characters.

I also struggled with the jarring change of style/tone of the early Matt Smith episodes and only half watched that season - so interesting that you feel that it's actually pretty good in retrospect. The rest of the Matt Smith era I just think of as clever ideas poorly executed. Those Matt Smith arcs never seemed to be properly resolved - I've utterly forgotten what was actually behind the crack or what happened to the Silence because it was all too complicated. Capaldi's stuff by comparison was generally just a bit humdrum - easier to follow but a bit Who by numbers.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 5, 2018)

I just found Capaldi boring. Moffat has killed Doctor Who for me, I didn't bother to watch the Christmas First Doctor/regeneration episode and have zero enthusiasm for the new series. I might give it a go when it comes on Netflix later on I suppose.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 5, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Now looking back, at the time I hated Moffat's time from the start, but actually I was just a bit wrong-footed. His first season and a half are pretty bloody good.



It helped enormously that Matt Smith is, by some distance, the best revival Doctor.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 5, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> It helped enormously that Matt Smith is, by some distance, the best revival Doctor.


I think it depends what depends what you want from the show.  Smith's frenetic doctor must've done well with kids, but I found him exhausting and lacking in the charisma of Tennant's more adult-friendly version.   

And I doubt you'd find anyone in the industry that would rank Smith as an acting talent, above Tennant... but I think a huge amount is down to the writing, and the showrunner's vision for the show.  And I hands down prefer RTD on both counts.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 5, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> I think it depends what depends what you want from the show.  Smith's frenetic doctor must've done well with kids, but I found him exhausting and lacking in the charisma of Tennant's more adult-friendly version.
> 
> And I doubt you'd find anyone in the industry that would rank Smith as an acting talent, above Tennant... but I think a huge amount is down to the writing, and the showrunner's vision for the show.  And I hands down prefer RTD on both counts.



Well, that's Who for you - something for everyone. Smith's Doctor seems to me to be the most Doctorish of them - truly an old alien in a young man's body. But they've all been pretty good.

RTD wrote some awful shite though - Rose getting a David-Tennant-sized-and-shaped dildo in an alternate reality being perhaps just a bit too much fan service.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 6, 2018)

I agree with you on that, Capaldi is my favourite so far with tennant being at the bottom of the pack,despite being a good actor, and overall both the family and I enjoy the whole range of new who, with the moffat era being the most Rewatched at the moment, although the grandson is currently working his way through sylvester McCoy's season.
Now for the nitpicking stuff for spanglechick  the alien choir only had one child in it and series 7a started with Asylum of the Daleks, the Impossible astronaut is the start of series 6, grandaughter1 is a big clara fan and grandaughter 2 is a big Amy and Rory fan so I've  watched them frequently.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 6, 2018)

PursuedByBears said:


> I just found Capaldi boring. Moffat has killed Doctor Who for me, I didn't bother to watch the Christmas First Doctor/regeneration episode and have zero enthusiasm for the new series. I might give it a go when it comes on Netflix later on I suppose.


That was great, apart from the actual 'story' of the people being stored forever. Totally shit story. . . . however the two doctors were awesome, best they have been for ages.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 6, 2018)

Tennant is my favourite, and Capaldi is the worst. Shame as he's the one I wanted to like the most, but the stories and scripts he was given were bad.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2018)

there hasn't been a crap Doctor since Colin Baker. And even he had his moments.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> there hasn't been a crap Doctor since Colin Baker. And even he had his moments.


----------



## lazythursday (Sep 6, 2018)

I am so looking forward to a fresh start. Amazing that so little has leaked so far this year. Not even story titles or anything. I know there are rumours of a civil rights related episode but the spoilers are incredibly sparse.


----------



## Chz (Sep 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> there hasn't been a crap Doctor since Colin Baker. And even he had his moments.


Mostly after he left, though.  (Darling of the Big Finish world)


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 7, 2018)

Can't blame him for trying to kill Peri though, eh! :O


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 7, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Can't blame him for trying to kill Peri though, eh! :O


Peri was alright, but the opening scene with him and Bonnie Langford should of had him sonic screwdrivering her head off on her exercise bike. Such bad casting. Even before she was in Who, Langford was hated by all kids, they were thoroughly screwing their demographic, who could generally tolerate even adrics and nissas, they had to really go out of their way to find someone so off the mark.


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 7, 2018)

I think he's excellent in Trial of a Time Lord, and Revelation of the Daleks is the second best Dalek story ever IMO


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 7, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> I think he's excellent in Trial of a Time Lord, and Revelation of the Daleks is the second best Dalek story ever IMO


Trial of a timelord is a fucking mess. 
Maybe not Coilin Bakers fault, but the straightforward story with Langford towards the end is unwatchable. There have been shit stories before, (and this was average), but the two leads just make it painful. I re-watched the rest on DVD but just couldn't get through that one (can't remember the name).


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 7, 2018)

Hiring someone based on him being fun at a party once.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 8, 2018)




----------



## CNT36 (Sep 9, 2018)

My impression from all trailers/teasers/adverts/trailers for trailers/exclusive previews so far is that they have spent a lot of money making it look shit.


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 9, 2018)

I hope the new series has its soundtrack done by the perosn who scored The Sea Devils. That would be perfick


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 9, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Hiring someone based on him being fun at a party once.


I suspect it was a bit more than that.

Plus he was good, it was just ...

The BBC hated Dr Who
The BBC hated Dr Who
The Coat
The BBC hated Dr Who


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 9, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> I suspect it was a bit more than that.


Not according to the documentary on the trial of a timeline dvds. Well that and his appearance on Dr who before becoming the doctor. . . Which let to the party.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 9, 2018)

excellent extended grapple with the valeyard tho. Can't remember much mano-a-mano grappling from nu who


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 9, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


>



How can she deliver only one line and make it sound shit. Hopefully all this is just lowering my expectations and I will be pleasantly surprised. The people who make trailers tend to be different from the ones who make the series. I hope this is the case because everthing about this clip sucks.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 9, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> I hope the new series has its soundtrack done by the perosn who scored The Sea Devils. That would be perfick


No it wouldn't.


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 9, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> No it wouldn't.


ha!


----------



## Don Troooomp (Sep 9, 2018)

I'm still unsure how this version of the doctor will turn out as I'm so used to the doc being a male character.
Saying that, I recall a number of people complaining about the first screen kiss between a white Kirk and a black communications officer, or even having a black woman officer at all - the same lot moaning about a female captain of a starship, but that worked out pretty well.
I'll reserve judgement until we see if she's any good at it.


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 9, 2018)

I'm more concerned that Bradley Walsh is in the show as I find him an insufferable cunt.

But I'm really loking forward to the new series. I think though it's make or break. If this doesn't do well I suspect the BBC will shitcan it


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 9, 2018)

Don Troooomp said:


> I'm still unsure how this version of the doctor will turn out as I'm so used to the doc being a male character.
> Saying that, I recall a number of people complaining about the first screen kiss between a white Kirk and a black communications officer, or even having a black woman officer at all - the same lot moaning about a female captain of a starship, but that worked out pretty well.
> I'll reserve judgement until we see if she's any good at it.


Janeway couldn't even park the ship without getting it stranded 70000 light years away! And then took 7 ytears getting back out!

Bloody women drivers eh! Bernard Manning? That fat cunt? Take my mother in law! Please!!!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 9, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> I'm more concerned that Bradley Walsh is in the show as I find him an insufferable cunt.
> 
> But I'm really loking forward to the new series. I think though it's make or break. If this doesn't do well I suspect the BBC will shitcan it



I am hoping this works out. I also hated Catherine Tate, but she turned out to be a decent assistant. It's refreshing not having a pretty young thing falling in love with the doctor.


----------



## belboid (Sep 9, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> How can she deliver only one line and make it sound shit. Hopefully all this is just lowering my expectations and I will be pleasantly surprised. The people who make trailers tend to be different from the ones who make the series. I hope this is the case because everthing about this clip sucks.


It's utterly meaningless. A single line (word) that won't be in any episode. No context, no nothing. Meaningless.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Don Troooomp said:


> I'm still unsure how this version of the doctor will turn out as I'm so used to the doc being a male character.
> Saying that, I recall a number of people complaining about the first screen kiss between a white Kirk and a black communications officer, or even having a black woman officer at all - the same lot moaning about a female captain of a starship, but that worked out pretty well.
> I'll reserve judgement until we see if she's any good at it.


tbh it depends more on whether they return to the dr who tradition of having good auld-fashioned adventures or whether they continue the new tradition of having inpenetrable plots you don't give a fuck about.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 13, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh it depends more on whether they return to the dr who tradition of having good auld-fashioned adventures or whether they continue the new tradition of having inpenetrable plots you don't give a fuck about.



Chibnall's previous work in Who does not augur well in this regard. Expect countdown clocks, magic buttons and idiot-ball plots.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Chibnall's previous work in Who does not augur well in this regard. Expect countdown clocks, magic buttons and idiot-ball plots.


yeh well i've given up on it, not cos of the female dr but because the plots were shit


----------



## lazythursday (Sep 13, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Chibnall's previous work in Who does not augur well in this regard. Expect countdown clocks, magic buttons and idiot-ball plots.


Well Moffat wrote some of the best episodes in the RTD era, and look how that turned out!


----------



## belboid (Sep 13, 2018)

The premiere of the new series is set to be on Septmber 24th. For some reason, it's in Sheffield.  God knows why, but I applied for me ticket anyway


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 20, 2018)

New trailer is looking good, locations look impressive.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 20, 2018)




----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2018)

Same thing, no?


----------



## Santino (Sep 22, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 147675
> 
> Same thing, no?


And what's the deal with airline food?


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 26, 2018)

Series 11 Premiere Time Officially Confirmed | Doctor Who TV

Episode 1 will premiere at *6.45pm, Sunday 7 October* on BBC One.

“We don’t get aliens in Sheffield. In a South Yorkshire city, Ryan Sinclair, Yasmin Khan and Graham O’Brien are about to have their lives changed forever, as a mysterious woman, unable to remember her own name, falls from the night sky. Can they believe a word she says? And can she help solve the strange events taking place across the city?”


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 27, 2018)

Its quite a good time slot if it stays consistant.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> an they believe a word she says?


yes


danny la rouge said:


> And can she help solve the strange events taking place across the city?”


yes


----------



## 8ball (Sep 27, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> yes



The Doctor lies.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2018)

it'll be a bloody short run if the world doesn't get saved on the 7th


----------



## Santino (Sep 27, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> it'll be a bloody short run if the world doesn't get saved on the 7th


It could get destroyed in episode 1 and only be saved (retrospectively) in the series finale.

But it seems unlikely.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 27, 2018)

Santino said:


> It could get destroyed in episode 1 and only be saved (retrospectively) in the series finale.
> 
> But it seems unlikely.



Yeah, best not save it.
Shithole.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 29, 2018)

Nice to see the leaked clip get a proper showing on graham norton.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 6, 2018)

Morphosis: What is Doctor Who?



> Eccentricity is a marker of class in the practical sense that a gentleman can get away with acting oddly and indulging his personal crotchets in a way that would lead to a working man (or woman) losing their jobs, or being otherwise socially sanctioned. The gentleman can do as the common man cannot and dress strangely, behave peculiarly, ignore social convention, lark and sport. And the figure of the gentleman as eccentric is increasingly a feature of later Victorian and Edwardian representations of (celebrations of, we might say) the type. So Richardson's Sir Charles Grandison is impeccably conventional in his behaviour; but by the time we get to, say, Sherlock Holmes his whimsies of manner and habit, from playing the violin badly to keeping his cigars in the coal-scuttle and his tobacco in the toe end of a Persian slipper (and, indeed, taking cocaine) are absolutely part of his gentility.






> This is important, because a large part of what for want of a better word I'm going to call the Doctor's ‘progressive’ reputation depends upon his repudiation of snobbery. It's something at once a marker of class and, as Furbank notes, of Englishness, and both those things feed into the representation of the Doctor.
> 
> Or _largely_ do, because of course there have been incarnations of the character as not English (Capaldi's Scottish 12th Doctor) and not well-bred (Eccleston's working-class 9th Doctor). But of these the interesting one is Eccleston's, since Capaldi, by playing the Doctor as an elderly eccentric Scottish gentleman, was hardly moving the figure far from the way Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee and Hurt played the role as elderly eccentric English gentleman, or indeed the way Baker, Davison, Baker mk 2, McCoy [*edit*: _commentators below point out that McCoy's Doctor was actually Scottish_], McGann, Tennant and Smith played the role as a _youthful_ eccentric English gentleman. The standout is Eccleston, a popular iteration of the Doctor amongst Whovians and a very fine actor, but somebody who proved never at ease in the role, who left the show prematurely after disagreements with the production team (and who has, uniquely amongst living former Who-actors, never returned to it). The most notable through-line in Eccleston's ninth-doctor adventures was the introduction of a working-class ‘companion’, Billie Piper's Rose Tyler, although the romance between Rose and the Doctor was postponed until Eccleston's one-series tenure ended and the prettier and posher David Tennant took up the role (Tennant, a Scot, affected an RP accent for his portrayal). It's a little hard to assess the place, or significance, of the Eccleston Doctor in the larger Whocanon, I think: I don't know if it would be right to say that it represented the Doctor in effect ‘slumming it’, and it would be lazy to present Eccleston as the exception that proved my larger rule.
> 
> Still, the main point I'm trying to make here is that the positive valences of ‘the gentleman’ absolutely cannot be separated out from the larger ideological structures of class and privilege in which they occur and which, in various ways, they sustain. There is a lot of (as it were) semiotic leverage applied to the concept that attempts to distance it from questions of class, to suggest that one can be a gentleman without breeding or money if one behaves in a certain way; but actually this is all part of a larger false consciousness. Irrespective of all that other touchy-feely stuff about having good manners and not being rude to one's social inferiors, the gentleman is a figure with a structurally copestoning role in social hierarchy. Above I quoted Robin Gilmour (who, incidentally, taught me Victorian Literature at Aberdeen University in the 1980s, and is one reason why I specialised in that period as an academic) to the effect that a gentleman never knowingly causes another person pain. But whilst Gilmour does say this, the larger thesis of _The Idea of the Gentleman in the Victorian Novel_ is that the Victorian preoccupation with the gentleman manifested an underlying social fact, ‘the transference of ruling power from the landowning and aristocratic élite to the rising middle classes’. The gentleman is a different sort of social superior to the older aristocrat (who was, by and large, much less concerned with the wellbeing of his inferiors, and more defined by a haughty insistence on his own honour and privilege), and he came about, partly, in reaction to the Revolutionary culling of aristocracy. But the gentleman remains a type of social superiority for all that.


worth a read. I like Adam Roberts (Salt, Land of the Headless and On are all brilliant reads. )


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 6, 2018)

Was Tennant’s accent RP in Who? I didn’t get that.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 6, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Was Tennant’s accent RP in Who? I didn’t get that.


It wasn’t.  It was standard middle class Estuary English.

Edit - which is why it was different in Family of Blood, where it was RP.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 6, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> It wasn’t.  It was standard middle class Estuary English.
> 
> Edit - which is why it was different in Family of Blood, where it was RP.


Yup.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 6, 2018)

he didn't know sly mcoy was scottish either, but it is hard to tell sometimes


----------



## Sodapop (Oct 7, 2018)

Political correctness gone mad. Some classics should stay that way without feeling they have to change things up just because the current social environment indicates inclusion for everyone and everything. It would be like making captain Ahab a woman


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 7, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Political correctness gone mad. Some classics should stay that way without feeling they have to change things up just because the current social environment indicates inclusion for everyone and everything. It would be like making captain Ahab a woman



Tom Baker suggested it as far back as 1981. And there are such thing as women doctors, btw.


----------



## Epona (Oct 7, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Political correctness gone mad. Some classics should stay that way without feeling they have to change things up just because the current social environment indicates inclusion for everyone and everything. It would be like making captain Ahab a woman



Oh do fuck off...


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 7, 2018)

Epona said:


> Oh do fuck off...



But not just yet, please - would like to see a justification for it. Unless it's a clever parody, of course 

In the meantime


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 7, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Tom Baker suggested it as far back as 1981. And there are such thing as women doctors, btw.



Yep.

Plus Dr Who is fiction and you can be and do whatever you want in fiction. That's the whole point.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 7, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> It would be like making captain Ahab a woman



I'll see that and raise you this


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2018)

Not long now. I’m very excited.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 7, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Not long now. I’m very excited.



Lucky sod!


----------



## Balbi (Oct 7, 2018)

Available on demand here in NZ straight after UK transmission, so 8am Monday. It's the school holidays. Breakfast and Doctor Who. Lovely.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 7, 2018)

Balbi said:


> Available on demand here in NZ straight after UK transmission, so 8am Monday. It's the school holidays. Breakfast and Doctor Who. Lovely.




School hols? 
How often do he get holidays?*

*genuinely interested...


----------



## Balbi (Oct 7, 2018)

10 or 11 week terms, so three two weekers a year and then summer Christmas between December and February.


----------



## Reno (Oct 7, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Political correctness gone mad. Some classics should stay that way without feeling they have to change things up just because the current social environment indicates inclusion for everyone and everything. It would be like making captain Ahab a woman



Asta Nielsen playing a female Hamlet in an acclaimed silent movie from 1921:


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Not long now. I’m very excited.


I've saved a spliff from friday night specially.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 7, 2018)

Is it wrong that I'm looking forward the meltdowns on other forums almost as much as I'm looking forward to watching who


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 7, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Is it wrong that I'm looking forward the meltdowns on other forums almost as much as I'm looking forward to watching who



It can be amusing but after a while the misogyny gets very samey and saddening. I'm sure there's petitions for the series to be remade already


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 7, 2018)

Its been up for ages, and you're  right it can be saddening but today I laughed when I saw a poll  to rate the new episode that had a few people rating as abysmal before its been shown, I really think I have to laugh at them even if I end up not liking this series.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Oct 7, 2018)

I'm excited. Not just for a female doctor but because the small one will be watching for the first time so this will be _his _ doctor and the fact the doctor is a woman will be neither here nor there for him, just as it should be


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

I'm also looking forward to bradley walsh. I know the metropolitan elites find him embarrassing and unsophisticated lols but he is funnier than they know


----------



## Santino (Oct 7, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Political correctness gone mad. Some classics should stay that way without feeling they have to change things up just because the current social environment indicates inclusion for everyone and everything. It would be like making captain Ahab a woman


I'm glad it annoys you.


----------



## Santino (Oct 7, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm also looking forward to bradley walsh. I know the metropolitan elites find him embarrassing and unsophisticated lols but he is funnier than they know


He's a good actor.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 7, 2018)

Santino said:


> He's a good actor.



Yes, but he still has one of the most punchable faces across all of space and time.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 7, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Political correctness gone mad. Some classics should stay that way without feeling they have to change things up just because the current social environment indicates inclusion for everyone and everything. It would be like making captain Ahab a woman


I expect that people were saying the same things about women not having to give up work when they got married, being allowed (finally) to get university degrees, having access to the contraceptive pill, being able to claim their husbands had raped them, and being able to get a mortgage in their own name.

Times change. Get over it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

I saw one response to the arsehattery over Who being a woman now 'How old were you when you first watched Doctor Who and loved it? Thats who it is for. We are guests at a childrens party here, stop whining' 
Obviously I tend to go for more directly insulting lines but thats my just my way lol


----------



## Gromit (Oct 7, 2018)

> Previously, actress Rachel Weisz - who is also Craig's wife - said she was not in favour of a female actress playing Bond, because women "should get their own stories".



Why risk new stories when the industry has found a brand new way of rebooting old tried and tested one by simply doing a bit of gender swapping? With the added bonus of 'right on' kudos for supposedly addressing gender imbalance.

But at least in Dr Who there is lore that enables it even if it shows that Dr Who is sexist. Only chooses to pick a female gender for its form 1 in 13 times. Dr Who clearly hates women.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 7, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Why risk new stories when the industry has found a brand new way of rebooting old tried and tested one by simply doing a bit of gender swapping? With the added bonus of 'right on' kudos for supposedly addressing gender imbalance.
> 
> But at least in Dr Who there is lore that enables it even if it shows that Dr Who is sexist. Only chooses to pick a female gender for its form 1 in 13 times. Dr Who clearly hates women.


Fuck off, Gromit, there's a good chap.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

The doctor never chooses a form, on account of always getting killed rather than it being a controlled process like it is for other, less risk taking gallifreyans. Its pot luck for the Doc.


and obviously fuck off gromit.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 7, 2018)

Sodapop & Gromit, two sad peas in a pod.


----------



## Smangus (Oct 7, 2018)

I'm gonna watch it for completely vacuous reasons , I think she's hot


----------



## Gromit (Oct 7, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sodapop & Gromit, two sad peas in a pod.


Proving once again you do not bother to read posts and fully understand their content. You just jump to your own conclusions. 

My post bares no relation to theirs. They went on about PC gone mad. I did not. 

I critised the industry of rehashing old ideas under a wolf's clothing of righteousness that they do not possess.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 7, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> I'll see that and raise you this


An inspired change. 

Sadly her work since has-been a bit hit and miss.


----------



## tommers (Oct 7, 2018)

I haven't watched it regularly since I was a kid. 

Might put it on tonight.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 7, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> The doctor never chooses a form, on account of always getting killed rather than it being a controlled process like it is for other, less risk taking gallifreyans. Its pot luck for the Doc.
> 
> 
> and obviously fuck off gromit.



He was given say in the matter in The Night of the Doctor tbf.

But ultimately yes, fuck off gromit.


----------



## lazythursday (Oct 7, 2018)

Apparently the episode leaked today on some Latin American streaming network. I have resisted watching it a few hours early but I did listen to the theme music which is perhaps the best version I've ever heard.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> He was given say in the matter in The Night of the Doctor tbf.
> 
> But ultimately yes, fuck off gromit.


I did want to mention the war doc as an exception but felt it took away from the overall thrust that gromit is a bell


----------



## existentialist (Oct 7, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Proving once again you do not bother to read posts and fully understand their content. You just jump to your own conclusions.
> 
> My post bares no relation to theirs. They went on about PC gone mad. I did not.
> 
> I critised the industry of rehashing old ideas under a wolf's clothing of righteousness that they do not possess.


It all seems so simple when you put it like that.

Which is kind of the point - you betray your total ignorance of the issues with the oversimplifications you choose to employ.

My own "fuck off" was driven by your ludicrous posturing about Dr Who being sexist, when you, of all people, are capable of (let's give you the benefit of the doubt) mouthing mindlessly sexist crap at the drop of a hat, on a fairly continual and predictable basis.

So you're either having a laugh, or guilty of the most idiotic lack of self-awareness, when you start hectoring others for their failings when it comes to sex discrimination.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 7, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Proving once again you do not bother to read posts and fully understand their content. You just jump to your own conclusions.
> 
> My post bares no relation to theirs. They went on about PC gone mad. I did not.
> 
> I critised the industry of rehashing old ideas under a wolf's clothing of righteousness that they do not possess.



I read & understood.

Doesn't change my mind, that you are both cunts, that should fuck off.


----------



## Chz (Oct 7, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> Apparently the episode leaked today on some Latin American streaming network. I have resisted watching it a few hours early but I did listen to the theme music which is perhaps the best version I've ever heard.


Heresy. (note that the Doctor being a woman isn't, but this is)
Delia Derbyshire's original score is better than everything since.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2018)

15 mins. Whoop whoop.


----------



## lazythursday (Oct 7, 2018)

Chz said:


> Heresy. (note that the Doctor being a woman isn't, but this is)
> Delia Derbyshire's original score is better than everything since.


It uses a great deal of the Delia Derbyshire original with added baseline.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 7, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Sadly her work since has-been a bit hit and miss.



Yours on the other hand, has been consistently dreadful.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2018)

DOCTOR WHO!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2018)

Let's hope it's a decent plot and not the sort of slop served up in recent years


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 7, 2018)

so the dr is now a women and northern


and its still shite


----------



## Epona (Oct 7, 2018)

Very Tennant-esque lines and delivery, that's not a bad thing though IMO


----------



## killer b (Oct 7, 2018)

she's good, but the story lost my attention very quickly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2018)

Better than I expected


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Oct 7, 2018)

I liked it and so did the small one!!


----------



## tommers (Oct 7, 2018)

I liked it. Bit silly. The 6 year old is a bit traumatised though I think.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2018)

I’m delighted. It was great.


----------



## Epona (Oct 7, 2018)

I didn't find the story that gripping, it was ok but not brilliant - I loved her though


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2018)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I liked it and so did the small one!!


Get qogs jr ready to deliver his strickly verdict


----------



## tommers (Oct 7, 2018)

Epona said:


> I didn't find the story that gripping, it was ok but not brilliant - I loved her though


Yeah, she was really good.


----------



## felixthecat (Oct 7, 2018)

I liked it too. First impressions of the new Doctor - favourable. I think she's going to be very good.


----------



## quiet guy (Oct 7, 2018)

Not liking the revamped theme tune.
The storyline wasn't the strongest and some of the acting felt very meeh. Suppose the characters will grow into their roles.


----------



## Epona (Oct 7, 2018)

I was very dubious about the casting decision of Bradley as assistant when it was announced, but actually I thought he did fine and I will come to like the character - just need to stop expecting him to say "The Chase is On..." and it'll be ok


----------



## D'wards (Oct 7, 2018)

Epona said:


> I didn't find the story that gripping, it was ok but not brilliant - I loved her though


I agree with this. Not watched it for years, and only watched to see if she would do ok, and she did.

Glad to see the baddie costumes are still endearingly creaky in that British way.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2018)

Sonic 



Spoiler



swiss army knife.


 fair point.

Liked Bradley too.


----------



## Chz (Oct 7, 2018)

Fair body count for Dr. Who. But overall good.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 7, 2018)

Good start IMO.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

good. She fits! Monster of the week was a poor mans predator but thats OK. I did want to see the new tardis interior but that'll wait till next week. Which looks to be a history one.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

I enjoyed the forging of the screwdriver bit, spoons lol


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

Chz said:


> Fair body count for Dr. Who. But overall good.


'have some salad haloween' bloke just randomly slain there


----------



## tommers (Oct 7, 2018)

Is it always that dark? I remember thinking it was scary when I was a kid but there were lots of deaths in that and it got quite sad at the end.

Just asking so I can advise the 6 year old on whether it will be the same next week.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2018)

I like history ones.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 7, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I enjoyed the forging of the screwdriver bit, spoons lol



Foraging a sonic screwdriver off the land 100%.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Foraging a sonic screwdriver off the land 100%.


In Sheffield. From spoons. Very pleased with that.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 7, 2018)

tommers said:


> Is it always that dark? I remember thinking it was scary when I was a kid but there were lots of deaths in that and it got quite sad at the end.
> 
> Just asking so I can advise the 6 year old on whether it will be the same next week.


Not usually
My nine year old - admittedly a very sensitive girl - was distraught before the end and had to be taken upstairs.


----------



## Epona (Oct 7, 2018)

tommers said:


> Is it always that dark? I remember thinking it was scary when I was a kid but there were lots of deaths in that and it got quite sad at the end.
> 
> Just asking so I can advise the 6 year old on whether it will be the same next week.



It does sometimes have dark moments (usually more along the lines of moral dilemma than body count), but this episode was a bit more grim than the usual.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2018)

tommers said:


> Is it always that dark? I remember thinking it was scary when I was a kid but there were lots of deaths in that and it got quite sad at the end.
> 
> Just asking so I can advise the 6 year old on whether it will be the same next week.


Darker than I expected


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 7, 2018)

Well,that was fun. Loved Jodie, the companions are shaping up nicely, like the new theme, and the incidental music was great.

The plot was a bit Predator (and I reckon we'll be back to it as the victims are held in stasis), but overall


----------



## tommers (Oct 7, 2018)

S☼I said:


> Not usually
> My nine year old - admittedly a very sensitive girl - was distraught before the end and had to be taken upstairs.



Liked for the info not the distraught child, obv.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 7, 2018)

Huh, just realised we've not seen the opening credits yet


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 7, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> good. She fits! Monster of the week was a poor mans predator but thats OK. I did want to see the new tardis interior but that'll wait till next week. Which looks to be a history one.


I thought the monster was the best bit.


----------



## Epona (Oct 7, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Huh, just realised we've not seen the opening credits yet



Huh, I had to go to the loo as it was starting (woke up from a nap in a panic that I had missed it, bladder couldn't wait) and thought I had just missed the opening theme...


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 7, 2018)

Well thats a huge relief, I liked that a lot. Will comment more after a rewatch but my initial reaction is it was brilliant.


----------



## quiet guy (Oct 7, 2018)

Seeing as they started around Sheffield does this mean that the Cardiff area filming links have been broken?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 7, 2018)

thought that was pretty good fun. shes is very good. and thank fuck they have ditched the terrible over dramatic, over loud, intrusive back ground music thats plagued dr who ever since the re-boot.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2018)

I’m very, very pleased. But I just want to point out one thing with which I was unhappy.

When the Doctor put up her hand and said “I would _of_”, I cringed.

I expect an edit by the time the DVD comes out.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 7, 2018)

better simpler story as well. hope that continues. Moffart jsut over egged everything to fuck until it became almost unwatchable.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 7, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m very, very pleased. But I just want to point out one thing with which I was unhappy.
> 
> When the Doctor put up her hand and said “I would _of_”, I cringed.
> 
> I expect an edit by the time the DVD comes out.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> better simpler story as well


Indeed: an actual story. Let’s stick to those please.


----------



## Epona (Oct 7, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed: an actual story. Let’s stick to those please.



I absolutely hated Moffat's tendency to take a theme, and lets be clear it was often a crap theme, and run with it over a series... I hated Clara as a "special" companion, the point of companion role is that they are supposed to be someone the audience can relate to rather than something that the plot hangs from that makes them more than...  I got quite (drunkenly) angry about the Clara thing iirc.

(Edit to add: I actually love Jenna Coleman, I am least likely to watch a series about royalty but was transfixed to the first series of Victoria because she was good - and when she was playing Clara I don't think she put a foot wrong - it was the writing of the character and the entire plot hanging from that, that I take issue with).

I very much warmed to Bradley as a companion during the course of tonight's episode


----------



## Red Cat (Oct 7, 2018)

We watched it, first dr who family viewing, I didn't like the others. The nearly 11 year old loved it, and the 7 year old is now up every few minutes saying 'it's going to give me nightmares!' but obviously she couldn't be left out despite suggestions that she go to bed because it might be a bit scary. I was a bit teary but managed to not do it loudly. 

Will watch it next week, not sure about the smallest one.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2018)

Must admit I was less impressed. Whilst it _*is*_ a kids show, the relationships and dialogue between the rest of the cast  was a bit like you'd find in a kids show. In the better episodes there has always been something a bit more 3 dimensional.


----------



## Balbi (Oct 7, 2018)

It looked gorgeous, and the music was ace and unobtrusive. Bloody good start for the Doctor.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 7, 2018)

i think it was probably better than any of the other "new doctor" introductory episodes - they always have to cover a lot of ground so the story will tend towards the thin.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 7, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> i think it was probably better than any of the other "new doctor" introductory episodes - they always have to cover a lot of ground so the story will tend towards the thin.



Matt Smith's was the best of the revival, I thought.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

fishfingers and custard  yeah it was a good one


----------



## Epona (Oct 7, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> thought that was pretty good fun. shes is very good. and thank fuck they have ditched the terrible over dramatic, over loud, intrusive back ground music thats plagued dr who ever since the re-boot.



Actually, yes - that is a very good point.  I am hearing impaired and watch tv with subtitles turned on anyway - but I can hear a bit, and this comment made me realise I wasn't *struggling *to hear the dialogue from under the music like I was during the last couple of seasons.


----------



## Helen Back (Oct 7, 2018)

That was the first time I had ever heard Jodie Whitaker, having not seen anything with her in. She makes the Doctor sound like she's from the North.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

lots of planets have a north


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2018)

Helen Back said:


> That was the first time I had ever heard Jodie Whitaker, having not seen anything with her in. She makes the Doctor sound like she's from the North.


A yorkshire doc to Ecclestone's manc/lanc.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 7, 2018)

Helen Back said:


> That was the first time I had ever heard Jodie Whitaker, having not seen anything with her in. She makes the Doctor sound like she's from the North.



From south of the last Doctor.


----------



## Helen Back (Oct 7, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> lots of planets have a north



There it is!


----------



## Epona (Oct 7, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> From south of the last Doctor.



Actually the proportion of Scottish Doctors is quite high.  The current one is south of those 

3 from Scotland, 5 from the South of England, and the rest from in between


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 7, 2018)

Seems the baddie is officially Tim Shaw. This pleases me.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 7, 2018)

I thought it was fun.  I can see her take on the role and it works for me.  Sort of manic whimsical child plus basic genius and hard as nails.   

Obviously they’re none of them far away from a central characterisation core, but it sits well.  

The biggest difference felt like the big gang of supporting characters.   It felt much more like an ensemble performance - which of course might change, but the trailer at the end with actors’ names was unusual and may hint at Chibnall as a show runner with different priorities.   

I thought the story was pretty fast-moving, though the dialogue was horribly clunky at times, especially with the grandparents-bike-dyspraxia stuff.  The monster with the teeth was genuinely chilling to look at.   

As for the deaths - a “people die and they don’t come back” statement to mark Chibnall’s points of difference?


----------



## Gromit (Oct 7, 2018)

It was bleeding rubbish.


p.s. I'll watch it when I get home.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 8, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> I thought it was fun.  I can see her take on the role and it works for me.  Sort of manic whimsical child plus basic genius and hard as nails.
> 
> Obviously they’re none of them far away from a central characterisation core, but it sits well.
> 
> ...


Can't imagine she was too chuffed when she saw the clothes they were going to dress her in for the rest of the series. From memory only Christopher Ecclestone got away with wearing anything like normal clothes. Whittaker's regressing in that respect, though not quite at the level of the horrors visited on Peter Davidson or Colin Baker.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 8, 2018)

looked like a bit of mork and mindy homage going on with the clothes


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 8, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Can't imagine she was too chuffed when she saw the clothes they were going to dress her in for the rest of the series. From memory only Christopher Ecclestone got away with wearing anything like normal clothes. Whittaker's regressing in that respect, though not quite at the level of the horrors visited on Peter Davidson or Colin Baker.


I rather like them.  They’re not cool, but nor does the doctor need to be.  

Other than the coat, I’d wear them.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 8, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Can't imagine she was too chuffed when she saw the clothes they were going to dress her in for the rest of the series. From memory only Christopher Ecclestone got away with wearing anything like normal clothes. Whittaker's regressing in that respect, though not quite at the level of the horrors visited on Peter Davidson or Colin Baker.


I thought davidsons cricketish gear was relatively tame, certainly not on a par with colins paint factory/harlequin mash up.


----------



## Epona (Oct 8, 2018)

Honestly I thought the clothes were a nightmare


----------



## Balbi (Oct 8, 2018)

One little change I noticed.

When Ryan was having a crack at riding his bike again, I realised that if Moffat or RTD had still been writing the show either;

a) he'd have magically been able to do it with swelling strings because love and grief magically conquer dyspraxia

b) there'd have been slow-mo, dramatic music and then a comedy sting as he fell off the bike

Seeing him keep trying and frustrated and keep trying was heartening, a little thing but one I appreciated


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 8, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> thought that was pretty good fun. shes is very good. and thank fuck they have ditched the terrible over dramatic, over loud, intrusive back ground music thats plagued dr who ever since the re-boot.



That's something I'm looking fwd to - a Murray Gold free Who.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

Epona said:


> Actually the proportion of Scottish Doctors is quite high.  The current one is south of those
> 
> 3 from Scotland, 5 from the South of England, and the rest from in between


Are you talking about Doctors or actors? I think only two Doctors were Scottish. Tennant’s Doctor sounds Southern English (to me). 

Tom Baker was from Liverpool, but his Doctor sounded Southern English. I’d need to check footage but I think Paul McGann (also from Liverpool) also plays the Doctor Southern English.  

Only Ecclestone’s and Whittaker’s Doctors sound Northern English, as far as memory serves.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 8, 2018)

Did it remind anyone else of the sort of stories 2000AD used to carry in the 80s?


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 8, 2018)

Idris2002 said:


> Did it remind anyone else of the sort of stories 2000AD used to carry in the 80s?



Not sure when I'll get to see the series but without too many spoilers, what sort of stories - Future Shocks or ongoing like Skizz etc?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 8, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> As for the deaths - a “people die and they don’t come back” statement to mark Chibnall’s points of difference?



yeah - i was fully expecting that the doctor would do the Jesus thing and bring back gran with her spare generational energy trick. 
also i thought the set up of ryan talking about "the most amazing women he's ever known" and it turns out to be his gran - and not doctor - was noteworthy. since the reboot theres has been much bigging up of the doctor as the super out there wonder hero (the nadiar being the RTD story where everyone on earth says "doctor" to bring him back from being a super aged prisoner of the master through the power of psychic energy - i believe in faeries - bollocks). "show dont tell " is a really basic thing to aim for in writing and dr who has being doing the opposite for years. 
I definitely think this is a deliberate stake by the new team to make a break with the over egged, "doctor as messiah" guff of the reboot. also setting a small scale story in Sheffield is - hopefully - a sign they are moving away from regular "the whole universe will be destroyed" cos of some dark cosmic mumbo jumbo super max big overblown stories that offered increasingly diminishing returns.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 8, 2018)

There was stuff I liked.  Whittaker seems like an excellent Who. The focus on small themes and a contained story was good.  The basic characterisation was reasonable. Dramatic moments were not undone by plot magic.

But the story was the kind of thing someone might rush off in a lunchtime and the dialogue was just awful.  Grace’s death scene — what were they thinking?  “Don’t be scared.”  “When?” “Without me” or whatever the actual nonsense was.  I agree with the comment that it was given the dialogue and character interaction of a kid’s tv programme, which was not the case in the Ecclestone, Tenant or Smith eras.

I am cautiously optimistic but somewhat concerned. Saying that, it’s still a step up from most of the writing Capaldi had to suffer.


----------



## strung out (Oct 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> There was stuff I liked.  Whittaker seems like an excellent Who. The focus on small themes and a contained story was good.  The basic characterisation was reasonable. Dramatic moments were not undone by plot magic.
> 
> But the story was the kind of thing someone might rush off in a lunchtime and the dialogue was just awful.  Grace’s death scene — what were they thinking?  “Don’t be scared.”  “When?” “Without me” or whatever the actual nonsense was.  I agree with the comment that it was given the dialogue and character interaction of a kid’s tv programme, which was not the case in the Ecclestone, Tenant or Smith eras.
> 
> I am cautiously optimistic but somewhat concerned. Saying that, it’s still a step up from most of the writing Capaldi had to suffer.


This.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 8, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Not sure when I'll get to see the series but without too many spoilers, what sort of stories - Future Shocks or ongoing like Skizz etc?


Ongoing like Skizz, yes.


----------



## Chz (Oct 8, 2018)

On second reflection, I still think it was pretty good. For Who. Decent-ish MOTW story, good acting, wow it's amazing how good a show can look on a budget these days, etc, etc...

But one thing _really_ bothers me. No, not "charity shops Up North have a piercing service". I'll assume that's on the cutting room floor, or whatever you call it these days.

All this talk of how it will be different this time. We're not going to do the same tropes, we're aiming for something fresh and new. And yet, even with a fairly average MOTW story the writers feel they've already backed themselves into enough of a corner to devote a _musical fucking montage_ to building the deus-ex-machina-in-a-stick that is the sonic screwdriver and immediately use it to save the day. That pisses me off.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 8, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> I rather like them.  They’re not cool, but nor does the doctor need to be.
> 
> Other than the coat, I’d wear them.


I was the other way round, thought the coat was ok!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 8, 2018)

Epona said:


> Actually the proportion of Scottish Doctors is quite high.  The current one is south of those
> 
> 3 from Scotland, 5 from the South of England, and the rest from in between



Has there been a Welsh Doctor?

Just watching the Good Omens trailer and was thinking that Michael Sheen would be brilliant and looks a bit Doctor'ish here:


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 8, 2018)

Was the YouTube channel real? I asked my kid to have a look but he couldn't find it.

I love it when shows do make thinks in the real world when they are hinted at on screen.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 8, 2018)

Epona said:


> Honestly I thought the clothes were a nightmare


The doctor is meant to dress like a twat. 

I don't know if it's meant to display an alien taste in apparel or just inherent bad taste.

I'm heartened that this has not changed. Separates us from American shows where glitz, glam and fashion are often bigger members of the cast than the actors. 

But hey sorry to the female audience if you thought at last a doctor who where we can discuss their shoes every week (ooh aren't they nice, anyone know who they are?!) and now feel denied.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 8, 2018)

Gromit said:


> But hey sorry to the female audience if you thought at last a doctor who where we can discuss their shoes every week (ooh aren't they nice, anyone know who they are?!) and now feel denied.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 8, 2018)

Gromit said:


> But hey sorry to the female audience if you thought at last a doctor who where we can discuss their shoes every week (ooh aren't they nice, anyone know who they are?!) and now feel denied.


 1/10.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 8, 2018)

Fuck off Gromit.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 8, 2018)

Right review time:

For a first episode mixed feelings.

Whittaker doesnt do scatty well. The newly regenerated Doctor often does comedy scattiness. She was shite at it. Hopefully the writters won't feel the need to subject us to too much more of it and that she can pull off eccentric better than she did new born scatty.

When she wasn't doing scatty she was ok. Early days. Benefit of the doubt being given. 

The whole riding a bike thing I found patronising to dyspraxia. I know it's was meant to display some noble human ideal of persistence over adversity etc. but no I hated it. 
If they succeeded then what? Ride to work on a bike when they have fuck all coordination? They want to kill him do they?

I hated that on a show watched by kids that the characters reached out and touched dangerous shit. Ooh look big worrying dangerous looking things... Touch, touch, prod.

I approve of encouraging the fed to touch. Looks nasty... Yeah officer, go touch it.

The chap from the chase was disappointingly good. I wanted to hate him in it. 

I loved that we've kicked of the series with death and more death. One noble sacrifice and two grizzly alien murders. Yeah! Proper horror which is how I remember Doctor Who of old.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2018)

No one cares what you think about anything really.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 8, 2018)

That reminds me — Grace’s death was pointless. Killing the tentacle thing was neither requested nor necessary and it achieved nothing.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> But the story was the kind of thing someone might rush off in a lunchtime and the dialogue was just awful.  Grace’s death scene — what were they thinking?  “Don’t be scared.”  “When?” “Without me” or whatever the actual nonsense was.



I guessed the reason for that immediately. Surprised you didn't and didn't even get it when it's explained to the audience later.

He's got cancer. In remission. She was his nurse when they met. I'm not explaining it any further than that but that's all that's needed to know to get it.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 8, 2018)

Gromit said:


> I guessed the reason for that immediately. Surprised you didn't and didn't even get it when it's explained to the audience later.
> 
> He's got cancer. In remission. She was his nurse when they met. I'm not explaining it any further than that but that's all that's needed to know to get it.


It was shit and so are you


----------



## D'wards (Oct 8, 2018)

On his radio show when Jodie was announced, Frank Skinner had some reservations. 

He's a huge Who fan and watches it with his young son. He liked the fact that Dr was a great male role model for his son in that he's an action hero who gets his way out of danger by using his brain and not by pummeling everyone to a pulp. Plus he's not a rugged handsome hench type, but often a normal looking guy.

This was before the #metoo and all that so I don't think he'd raise that point now.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


----------



## D'wards (Oct 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> That reminds me — Grace’s death was pointless. Killing the tentacle thing was neither requested nor necessary and it achieved nothing.


I knew she'd die in order for Bradley to be free to galavant all over the universe


----------



## kabbes (Oct 8, 2018)

D'wards said:


> I knew she'd die in order for Bradley to be free to galavant all over the universe


I thought exactly the same!  In storytelling terms that’s all a bit shit, really.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I thought exactly the same!  In storytelling terms that’s all a bit shit, really.


Me as well! There was a bit of random floaty regeneration energy that went walkabout, I was half expecting it to turn up at the end - though the need to free him up predominated. Bradders is obviously set up to be the cautious scaredy cat who will go on to do galaxy saving deeds.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 8, 2018)

unnecessary in a time travel story as well 'I can have you back here in oooh... five minutes ago, she won't even know you're gone'

granted the Tardis is still MIA but we all know its coming back next week


----------



## Gromit (Oct 8, 2018)

D'wards said:


> I knew she'd die in order for Bradley to be free to galavant all over the universe


Irrelevant.

To quote a previous Doctor. "Time Machine."

Micky didn't die so that Rose could swan off. She was back before he knew she was gone because Time Machine.


----------



## Sprocket. (Oct 8, 2018)

D'wards said:


> I knew she'd die in order for Bradley to be free to galavant all over the universe



I was surprised she wasn’t wearing a Star Fleet red top.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 8, 2018)

A range of pretty clear messaging for the children without patronising them, and regardless of their age. Who is impressive in that way.

So what did we get .. fairness, inclusion, bereavement, the value of trying, former female classmate in position of authority, and a good section on bullying. Also the lightest of touches on gender.

A shift away from 'something for the dads', perhaps as well?

Great early stats on remote control demographic, timeshift to follow:   "More girls than boys (under-16s) watched Jodie Whittaker's Doctor Who debut - *378,000* v 339,000. Last year's series opener: *143,000 girls */ 390,000 boys."

Job done so far.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 8, 2018)

This is a balanced review of the ups and downs

Doctor Who series 11: The Woman Who Fell To Earth review


----------



## strung out (Oct 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> This is a balanced review of the ups and downs
> 
> Doctor Who series 11: The Woman Who Fell To Earth review


It just struck me that like the opening Youtube comment from Ryan, the title of the episode refers to his nan too.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 8, 2018)

It's also a play on a rock n'roll character who was somewhat gender fluid because, youknow, so is the doctor now.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> That reminds me — Grace’s death was pointless. Killing the tentacle thing was neither requested nor necessary and it achieved nothing.


For me, this was the one bum note. It’s worse than her death being pointless: she died so that a male character could grow. She died to give Graham the jolt he needs to be more adventurous; to make more of himself. 

It’s a shame that the new era female Doctor begins her tenure with this sexist storytelling trope. But on the plus side it was, on the whole, handled well: can you imagine RTD or - worse still - Moffat being let loose on that material?

No, that one misstep aside, I’m very encouraged by this opening episode. I already believe in Whittaker as the Doctor. I like the fact we got a story instead of an hour’s worth of _shouty, flash bang, blah bah woo woo, I’m a clever writer because [insert something not actually clever but in fact just nonsense] in lieu of narrative_. And that there is somewhere for these people's relationships to go, and that for the first time since, what, season one of Tennant, I’m not actually in fear of that somewhere being somewhere shit.

I even liked the monster.

Just don’t say “could of” again.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 8, 2018)

It wasn't "pointless", gave rise to the best exchange of the show, and talked about one of lifes most problematic issues for children.

Some of you people sound like middle aged men who kind of lost touch with the idea you are watching a kids programme at 6pm in the evening.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 8, 2018)

It was utterly pointless in the context of the story. She died doing and achieving nothing of note.  If that was an intentional piece of irony, I missed its cues.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 8, 2018)

You missed more than cues.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> For me, this was the one bum note. It’s worse than her death being pointless: she died so that a male character could grow. She died to give Graham the jolt he needs to be more adventurous; to make more of himself.
> 
> It’s a shame that the new era female Doctor begins her tenure with this sexist storytelling trope. But on the plus side it was, on the whole, handled well: can you imagine RTD or - worse still - Moffat being let loose on that material?
> 
> ...


two male characters - whatsisface, her second husband, as well


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> two male characters - whatsisface, her second husband, as well


That’s the male character I was referring to. Bradley. Is he not Graham?

I hadn’t considered the grandson. But you’re of course right.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> That’s the male character I was referring to. Bradley. Is he not Graham?
> 
> I hadn’t considered the grandson. But you’re of course right.


the grandson, the black man who found the alien artefact, and the second husband, who said grace should have lived instead of him.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> It was utterly pointless in the context of the story. She died doing and achieving nothing of note.  If that was an intentional piece of irony, I missed its cues.


She died saving her grandson who was trapped on the crane.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> the grandson, the black man who found the alien artefact, and the second husband, who said grace should have lived instead of him.


Bradley Walsh. (Her second husband - Graham).  I got him. He’s the one I was thinking of. 

The one I hadn’t considered was the grandson. Ryan. He was already pretty adventurous. But yes, you’re right, he grew too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Bradley Walsh. (Her second husband - Graham).  I got him. He’s the one I was thinking of.
> 
> The hadn’t considered was the grandson. Ryan. He was already pretty adventurous. But yes, you’re right, he grew too.


yeh the kid tried riding the bike again. although after chucking it down a hill into a tree i thought he should have taken it to a bike shop to get checked out.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh the kid tried riding the bike again. although after chucking it down a hill into a tree i thought he should have taken it to a bike shop to get checked out.


I’m glad his dyspraxia wasn’t cured.

My younger daughter is dyspraxic (amongst other things). Her nan dying didn’t cure her dyspraxia either.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 8, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> She died saving her grandson who was trapped on the crane.


Wrong crane


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 8, 2018)

twitter can be a bit emotional today ...

"My 4 year old has pointed out all baddies are bullies and bullies are bad"

"I just found myself reassuring my 4 year old daughter that it’s going to be ok because she is the Doctor, and she’s not afraid of anything. And now I’ve got a bit of a tear in my eye."

"My four and five year old granddaughters love that the Doctor is like them."

etc.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> "My four and five year old granddaughters love that the Doctor is like them."


I agree that TV (and fiction in general) needs to represent society. I remember, after all, when children’s TV and literature was predominantly about people who went to boarding schools or people who have nannies. And I welcome the Doctor being a woman. But I do worry about where the line of thinking evidenced in those quotes leads us.

How “like us” do we need characters to be in order to identify with them? - I could identify with female characters, even as a child. For example. 

Are we going to say we can only identify characters “like us”? (In my case, a grumpy, balding Scotsman of Irish descent in his mid 50s who plays guitar and likes jazz).

The Doctor is played by a Northern English woman in her 30s (at a guess). That’s not _exactly_ like a 4 or 5 year-old granddaughter.  And the character is _much_ older. And an alien. 

Yes, let’s portray the lived diversity around us. But let’s not say we can’t identify with, empathise with, people (_people_, after all) who are in many ways _not_ like us. Because that’s a dangerous route to head down.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 8, 2018)

Rock on grandad.


----------



## Sea Star (Oct 8, 2018)

Can Dr Who be a woman if she wasn't socialised as a girl? Discuss.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 8, 2018)

Sea Star said:


> Can Dr Who be a woman if she wasn't socialised as a girl? Discuss.



Fuck off, you twat.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> For me, this was the one bum note. It’s worse than her death being pointless: she died so that a male character could grow. She died to give Graham the jolt he needs to be more adventurous; to make more of himself.
> 
> It’s a shame that the new era female Doctor begins her tenure with this sexist storytelling trope. But on the plus side it was, on the whole, handled well: can you imagine RTD or - worse still - Moffat being let loose on that material?
> 
> ...


So men never die so the female character can grow then?


----------



## Gromit (Oct 8, 2018)

Sea Star said:


> Can Dr Who be a woman if she wasn't socialised as a girl? Discuss.


You remind me of [edit] who would try and take any conversation and make it about trans. 
Which is better the Ford Modeo or the Vauxhall Nova?
Neither because the car industry hates trans people!


----------



## Reno (Oct 8, 2018)

Gromit said:


> So men never die so the female character can grow then?


Fridging:

Women in Refrigerators - Wikipedia


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

Reno said:


> Fridging:
> 
> Women in Refrigerators - Wikipedia


Indeed.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 8, 2018)

Reno said:


> Fridging:
> 
> Women in Refrigerators - Wikipedia


Oh it's a comic book trope. Sorry I don't read comics that's why I didn't recognise it.


----------



## Reno (Oct 8, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Oh it's a comic book trope. Sorry I don't read comics that's why I didn't recognise it.


It’s been widely adopted by films and TV shows. Lots of action films, thrillers and superhero movies and shows which employ that trope too. If you’ve never seen a film where a female character gets introduced and then killed only to motivate the male hero, you can’t have seen many films.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 8, 2018)

Gromit said:


> You remind me of Aunty Stella who would try and take any conversation and make it about trans.



That would be because [edited]


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

Don't name people by previous usernames when they've said there's reasons and/or they don't like it.


----------



## Sprocket. (Oct 8, 2018)

We both thought it was very enjoyable and knocked spots off the last two series.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

Reno said:


> It’s been widely adopted by films and TV shows. Lots of action films, thrillers and superhero movies and shows which employ that trope too. I’ve you’ve neve seen a film where a female character gets introduced and then killed only to motivate the male hero, you can’t have seen many films.


I thought you were randomly making these points, but I see now you're replying to a poster I ignore.  One of the few drawbacks of an otherwise excellent service.


----------



## killer b (Oct 8, 2018)

I don't think you can really say that a character who has spent the last 50 years as a man, becoming a woman doesn't raise any questions about gender transition and the like. It's totally valid to talk about it. I'd imagine the writers expect many such conversations to happen as a result of this casting decision.


----------



## D'wards (Oct 8, 2018)

What clothing do people prefer; wacky or sober?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 8, 2018)

D'wards said:


> What clothing do people prefer; wacky or sober?


For myself? Definitely not “sober” - sounds terribly dull.


----------



## D'wards (Oct 8, 2018)

Always worth another look...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Don't name people by previous usernames when they've said there's reasons and/or they don't like it.



You are right, but she gets right up my nose with her agenda, and the trouble she causes on here & the shit she has spread about this site elsewhere, but despite that, I've edited my post.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

D'wards said:


> What clothing do people prefer; wacky or sober?
> View attachment 149192


Just out of interest, which of those is “sober”?


----------



## killer b (Oct 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Just out of interest, which of those is “sober”?


ecclestone & tennant. that's all.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

killer b said:


> ecclestone & tennant. that's all.


Ecclescake I agree with. Tennant had his converses.


----------



## killer b (Oct 8, 2018)

converses _are_ sober now, grandad.


----------



## D'wards (Oct 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Ecclescake I agree with. Tennant had his converses.


As do 62% of the population. 
Quite a change from Colin Baker


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

D'wards said:


> As do 62% of the population.


With a suit, though. That’s the wacky bit.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

killer b said:


> converses _are_ sober now, grandad.




I wear Dunlops, which are similar. I was talking about the context.


----------



## D'wards (Oct 8, 2018)

Capaldi defo wasn't wacky. He wouldn't get a second glance walking though town in that get up


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 8, 2018)

killer b said:


> I don't think you can really say that a character who has spent the last 50 years as a man, becoming a woman doesn't raise any questions about gender transition and the like. It's totally valid to talk about it. I'd imagine the writers expect many such conversations to happen as a result of this casting decision.



I thought it was around 900 years?

Come on, this is a thread about Dr Who - a silly fantasy kids/sci-fi TV show - not a thread to be polluted by any transgender agenda.


----------



## killer b (Oct 8, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Capaldi defo wasn't wacky. He wouldn't get a second glance walking though town in that get up


didn't he have a flouncy shirt?


----------



## Reno (Oct 8, 2018)

killer b said:


> didn't he have a flouncy shirt?


Only if a basic white shirt strikes you as flouncy.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Capaldi defo wasn't wacky. He wouldn't get a second glance walking though town in that get up


He had a red-silk-lined frock coat. I liked it, but it’s not every day attire.

Ah. Wait. I don’t live in Shoreditch.


----------



## Reno (Oct 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> He had a red-silk-lined frock coat. I liked it, but it’s not every day attire.
> 
> Ah. Wait. I don’t live in Shoreditch.


I have one just like it.


----------



## killer b (Oct 8, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I thought it was around 900 years?
> 
> Come on, this is a thread about Dr Who - a silly fantasy kids/sci-fi TV show - not a thread to be polluted by any transgender agenda.


A silly fantasy kids/sci fi TV show that _just happens_ to have had a male character transition to a female character, in 2018? The agenda is baked in.

That said, I understand your desire to avoid another shitfest. I'm not sure telling someone to _fuck off you twat_ is the best way of doing that, mind.


----------



## Red Cat (Oct 8, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Must admit I was less impressed. Whilst it _*is*_ a kids show, the relationships and dialogue between the rest of the cast  was a bit like you'd find in a kids show. In the better episodes there has always been something a bit more 3 dimensional.



I think the bbc makes very good programmes for the pre-teen age group, simple storylines, recognisable characters/types, moral questions, humour - if it's a kids programme then surely making it a level that gives kids food for thought is a good thing? It's not as if most adult tv is actually more sophisticated anyway.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 8, 2018)

Gromit said:


> The doctor is meant to dress like a twat.
> 
> I don't know if it's meant to display an alien taste in apparel or just inherent bad taste.
> 
> ...


Fucking hell. QED


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Wrong crane


Squiggles moved, she points it out to graham as she is walking back in to the site.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 9, 2018)

Viewing figures in excess of 8 million, which seems quite respectable!


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2018)

I rather liked it.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 9, 2018)

Sea Star said:


> Can Dr Who be a woman if she wasn't socialised as a girl? Discuss.


It is a bit hard to say at the moment as there is no information on how these things are judged on gallifrey.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 9, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> It is a bit hard to say at the moment as there is no information on how these things are judged on gallifrey.



Plus not all Gallifreyans are Timelords. Non-Timelord society may have a different approach.

There's just so much we don't know.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 9, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> For myself? Definitely not “sober” - sounds terribly dull.


I'm afraid that puts you in the bow tie camp.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 9, 2018)

Red Cat said:


> I think the bbc makes very good programmes for the pre-teen age group, simple storylines, recognisable characters/types, moral questions, humour - if it's a kids programme then surely making it a level that gives kids food for thought is a good thing? It's not as if most adult tv is actually more sophisticated anyway.


Yeah absolutely (on the young adults progs). It's just that Dr Who is supposedly an adults prog masquerading as a kids prog or some such (it's actually a bit of both or supposed to work on both levels... or summat). It was just the other night the dialogue between the characters seemed very much the way adult conversations/relationships are represented in a kids prog.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 9, 2018)

The Doctor isn’t a woman or a man.  The doctor is an alien.  It’s clear that the Doctor has not been socialised as any kind of human.  Her biological sex right now is female.  Female alien.


----------



## Red Cat (Oct 9, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Yeah absolutely (on the young adults progs). It's just that Dr Who is supposedly an adults prog masquerading as a kids prog or some such (it's actually a bit of both or supposed to work on both levels... or summat). It was just the other night the dialogue between the characters seemed very much the way adult conversations/relationships are represented in a kids prog.



It may be that I watch more kids stuff than adult these days and didn't notice


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 9, 2018)

quiet guy said:


> Seeing as they started around Sheffield does this mean that the Cardiff area filming links have been broken?



It's still produced by BBC Wales, a lot of the filming is still at Roath Lock and the post production is all in Cardiff, but I think they're doing most of the external shooting elsewhere. Fair enough,  Grangetown can't pretend to be everywhere!


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 9, 2018)

While not following it so intently I noted every line, the two most overt - excuse the analogy - children orientated money shots for me:

On bereavement (losing parents): "I carry them with me; what they would have thought, and said and done, made them a part of who I am. So even though they've gone from the world they've never gone from me".

On bullying, and to the bully: "I think you broke the rules.Tim Shaw is a big, blue cheat!"

And the biggest, scariest word in the entire show .. 'cancer'.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 9, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> While not following it so intently I noted every line, the two most overt - excuse the analogy - children orientated money shots for me:
> 
> On bereavement (losing parents): "I carry them with me; what they would have thought, and said and done, made them a part of who I am. So even though they've gone from the world they've never gone from me".
> 
> ...


Not sure why those need to be counted as child-oriented. They worked for me too.

(Not sure I like the juxtaposition of the phrase “money shot” with “children”. Yuch).


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 9, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> (Not sure I like the juxtaposition of the phrase “money shot” with “children”. Yuch).


A sign of a wrong un


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 9, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Not sure why those need to be counted as child-oriented. They worked for me too.


They were supposed to work for you too. That's kind of been the point of the show for 50 years.

I wonder if the reason for seemingly drifting away from the 'something for the dads'/Amy Pond angle is the advent of 4 screen and streaming. Adult 'remote control' gatekeeping becoming superfluous.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 9, 2018)

kabbes said:


> The Doctor isn’t a woman or a man.  The doctor is an alien.  It’s clear that the Doctor has not been socialised as any kind of human.  Her biological sex right now is female.  Female alien.


Or a mock / psuedo kind of socialisation takes place in a biological way during regeneration.
We are the sum of our experiences but each doctor is different so each doctor must have different experiences despite being the same person with access to the same memories.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 9, 2018)

Plumdaff said:


> It's still produced by BBC Wales, a lot of the filming is still at Roath Lock and the post production is all in Cardiff, but I think they're doing most of the external shooting elsewhere. Fair enough,  Grangetown can't pretend to be everywhere!


It managed a back alley in sheffield


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 9, 2018)

Wilf said:


> I'm afraid that puts you in the bow tie camp.


Don’t be afraid.  I love my clothes.  People regularly complement me.  But never on the sober ones.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 9, 2018)

I just watched the first episode. 
What did I watch?
I kept waiting for 'The Doctor' to arrive, but it didn't happen.
Was it a parody? A really bad parody?
Bradley Wiggins Walsh? Are they serious? 
I'm struggling to recall an episode of Dr Who that was this bad since Sylvester McCoy was at the helm!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 9, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I just watched the first episode.
> What did I watch?
> I kept waiting for 'The Doctor' to arrive, but it didn't happen.
> Was it a parody? A really bad parody?
> ...



*yaaaaawwwwwwwn*


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 9, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> *yaaaaawwwwwwwn*


Great rebuttal.
Please explain why it wasn't absolutely shite?


----------



## Sodapop (Oct 9, 2018)

Just because Dr who is an alien doesn't automatically mean we can assume they change gender. We know Dr who is an alien, but surely aliens also have gender whether male Female,fluid, non gender, whatever. Just because alien doesn't automatically mean gender fluid. Yes, this is a story. But this particular sorry story is finding it's wayposts on political correctness in order to gain viewer numbers and social networking posts to boost popularity and therefore investors. It's playing to the new"socially correct" generation. And it's utter bollocks. It's not entertaining. It's a litany on gender, colour and social economic political correctness. It's not new and exciting. It's drivel


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 9, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Great rebuttal.
> Please explain why it wasn't absolutely shite?


In what way didn’t ‘the Doctor’ arrive?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 9, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Just because Dr who is an alien doesn't automatically mean we can assume they change gender. We know Dr who is an alien, but surely aliens also have gender whether male Female,fluid, non gender, whatever. Just because alien doesn't automatically mean gender fluid. Yes, this is a story. But this particular sorry story is finding it's wayposts on political correctness in order to gain viewer numbers and social networking posts to boost popularity and therefore investors. It's playing to the new"socially correct" generation. And it's utter bollocks. It's not entertaining. It's a litany on gender, colour and social economic political correctness. It's not new and exciting. It's drivel


How were gender or “colour” (ethnicity? Clothes?) part of the story on Sunday?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 9, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> In what way didn’t ‘the Doctor’ arrive?


In a decent actor way. In a way that didn't make me (and everyone else in the room) ask WTF was that!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 9, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I just watched the first episode.



Congratulations, you correctly identified which episode you watched!



> What did I watch?



But seemingly not which show? Hmmm.



> I kept waiting for 'The Doctor' to arrive, but it didn't happen.



The Doctor - rather than the newly minted regeneration wobbly person - arrived about ten minutes before the end.



> Was it a parody? A really bad parody?



What the fuck do you think?



> Bradley Wiggins Walsh? Are they serious?



Hey hey hey, you know the guys name, but correct it because cunt lolz. LOLZ


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 9, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> In a decent actor way. In a way that didn't make me (and everyone else in the room) ask WTF was that!


You think Whittaker is a bad actor? I think you’d be hard pressed to find any professional reviewers who share that view.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 9, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Just because Dr who is an alien doesn't automatically mean we can assume they change gender.


If you’re a fan of the show, you’ll know that other Time Lords have changed gender in the past. The Corsair, for example; The Master/Missy; the General. It's a thing Time Lords sometimes do. Not because they're aliens generally, but specifically because they’re aliens who are Time Lords.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 10, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Just because Dr who is an alien doesn't automatically mean we can assume they change gender. We know Dr who is an alien, but surely aliens also have gender whether male Female,fluid, non gender, whatever. Just because alien doesn't automatically mean gender fluid. Yes, this is a story. But this particular sorry story is finding it's wayposts on political correctness in order to gain viewer numbers and social networking posts to boost popularity and therefore investors. It's playing to the new"socially correct" generation. And it's utter bollocks. It's not entertaining. It's a litany on gender, colour and social economic political correctness. It's not new and exciting. It's drivel


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 10, 2018)

What's she's saying is "Can you believe all those half-witted middle aged men never understood the reason the Doctor had pretty totty for assistants was because dads were in charge of the remote control and we had to encourage them to watch weekend kids tv".


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 10, 2018)

Here's me thinking it was Liz Shaw calling out the Brig on his sexism!


----------



## Gromit (Oct 10, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> You think Whittaker is a bad actor? I think you’d be hard pressed to find any professional reviewers who share that view.


It would take a brave reviewer to call that spade a spade in the current climate. They'd instantly be swamped with social media hate mail and accusations of misogyny and they know it. 

The performance would have had to have been truly truly awful for them to believe they could escape unscathed for dissing a newly minted female Doctor (a shining Beacon for wimin everywhere etc.) and it was merely 'pretty bad'.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 10, 2018)

Some people just don't have a grasp on what fiction and imagination are about.

But leaving that aside....let me explain.
The Dr....as a highly intelligent being...can transfer into anything.
So far...they happen to always select humanoid form. It makes perfect sense that a female humanoid form would be a choice...

I don't get why some people can't see that?


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 10, 2018)

Ps. I like Whittakers take on it..

"













_




*JODIE WHITTAKER SAYS DOCTOR WHO IS 'AN ALIEN WITH TWO HEARTS,' NOT DEFINED BY GENDER*
Contributed by




Alexis Sottile


Sep 19, 2018
Doctor Who hosts one of the most beloved sci-fi characters of all time, and most transferences of the Time Lord to a different body and actor have been met with stoic (or not-so-stoic) resignation by the die-hard fans who loved and grew attached to say, Matt Smith's Doctor, or David Tennant's.

But the transfer that's about to be completed this coming October 7 when the 11th season of Doctor Who debuts on the BBC has been met with more than the usual amount of both excitement and dissection, as the world's first female Doctor, played by Black Mirror sci-fi alum Jodie Whittaker, will step from the police call box for the very first time. And, after 12 male Doctors, it is, of course, about time. 

It seems that most Doctor Whofans are open to the change (a recent British poll had 85 percent of the thousands of self-proclaimed Doctor Who fans who were polled either thrilled with the casting or open to it) but a few voices of dismay have stirred the pot, such as fifth doctor Peter Davison lamenting the casting as a "loss of a role model for boys," though even he added, "...but I understand the argument that you need to open it up." (It is also worth noting that many other former Doctors, such as the hallowed Tennant himself, have squarely backed the choice with no reservations.)

So what does Whittaker think about this idea of gender-specific role models? In a recent interview with The Wrap, she echoed the sentiments of thousands of fans. First off, she said, *"I'd be surprised by finding a boy who didn't have a role model in their life that was female." But also, she added, "Role models and heroes come in all different shapes and sizes, and I've never needed to look like mine for me to be able to relate to them." 
Further, and something all fans should know, "the Doctor is a Time Lord, an alien with two hearts," she said. "Those things don't change. The body changes...obviously it's the [same] gender [so far], but it's a very different form that the doctor's regenerated into, and I am an extension of that change. But not a diversion from it." 


Jodie Whittaker says Doctor Who is 'an alien with two hearts,' not defined by gender



*
See*?   *
_


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 10, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Just because Dr who is an alien doesn't automatically mean we can assume they change gender. We know Dr who is an alien, but surely aliens also have gender whether male Female,fluid, non gender, whatever. Just because alien doesn't automatically mean gender fluid. Yes, this is a story. But this particular sorry story is finding it's wayposts on political correctness in order to gain viewer numbers and social networking posts to boost popularity and therefore investors. It's playing to the new"socially correct" generation. And it's utter bollocks. It's not entertaining. It's a litany on gender, colour and social economic political correctness. It's not new and exciting. It's drivel


Well the doctor is female to our eyes now so suck it up or stop watching, its up to you


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 10, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Well the doctor is female to our eyes now so suck it up or stop watching, its up to you



Yup.... some trolling going on methinks...or just someone with no imagination.... on just someone being Alienistic.

The Dr / Time Lord can be anything they choose. That's the premise. They transfer from one humanoid form to another. 
The big question is why did it take so long to transfer to a female.

As for the acting. Many Drs have gotten a poor initial reception. I'm not worried about this Dr. I think the character will stand the test of time and the actor is excellent.


----------



## U-R (Oct 10, 2018)




----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 10, 2018)

I've always thought either Miranda Richardson or Julie Walters would make a great Dr Who.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 10, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> Just because Dr who is an alien doesn't automatically mean we can assume they change gender. We know Dr who is an alien, but surely aliens also have gender whether male Female,fluid, non gender, whatever. Just because alien doesn't automatically mean gender fluid. Yes, this is a story. But this particular sorry story is finding it's wayposts on political correctness in order to gain viewer numbers and social networking posts to boost popularity and therefore investors. It's playing to the new"socially correct" generation. And it's utter bollocks. It's not entertaining. It's a litany on gender, colour and social economic political correctness. It's not new and exciting. It's drivel


You managed to wibble about "political correctness" twice in one post. You appear to have a bit of a hair up your arse about it.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> It would take a brave reviewer to call that spade a spade in the current climate. They'd instantly be swamped with social media hate mail and accusations of misogyny and they know it.
> 
> The performance would have had to have been truly truly awful for them to believe they could escape unscathed for dissing a newly minted female Doctor (a shining Beacon for wimin everywhere etc.) and it was merely 'pretty bad'.


I think your average TV reviewer is perfectly capable of negotiating the rocks and shoals of people's objections to their criticisms. It's pretty cheap (and fairly transparent sexism) for you to be writing off the fact that a character you didn't like must have only been well-reviewed because of her gender. That's straight out of the "why isn't there a White History Month?" playbook.

And what the little "wimin" jibe about? *awaits overexplanation about how gromit is being supportive of the feminist movement*


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2018)

existentialist said:


> You managed to wibble about "political correctness" twice in one post. You appear to have a bit of a hair up your arse about it.



If we want to be all "canon sci fi bore" about it, isn't there a history of Timelords being able to change sex at the point of re-generation that goes back to the shows in the 1980s?  

edit2:  I see Mr La Rouge already made this point 

I don't think they re-generate into anything they choose, but there's something subconscious going on that feeds into the process, and each re-generation has some kind of "seed" (hence the number being limited), which also has some influence... I think. 

And I think the acting not being bang-on while the new actor finds their feet in a prominent role with a massive history is understandable.  Tennant took a while to settle in if I remember correctly.

edit1:  thinking back, I think Troughton chose a face for his regeneration at the end of series 2, but was offered the choice by the Timelords..


----------



## Signal 11 (Oct 10, 2018)

8ball said:


> I think Troughton chose a face for his regeneration


So did Romana.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 10, 2018)

8ball said:


> If we want to be all "canon sci fi bore" about it, isn't there a history of Timelords being able to change sex at the point of re-generation that goes back to the shows in the 1980s?
> 
> edit2:  I see Mr La Rouge already made this point
> 
> ...


I'm not sure Sodapop is remotely interested in the canon sci-fi aspect of it - I get the impression that it's more just a vehicle for her to have a pop at what she sees as "political correctness", so I fear that she won't really be all that interested in your rationale 

I don't really follow Doctor Who either, but I do think it's rather nice that they've been able to exploit a long-standing plot feature to enable them to move the show into the 21st Century. Undeniably, the idea of casting a female Doctor would have been unthinkable when the series began in a very different time, but there seems to me to be no reason why an intergalactic alien superbeing should be constrained by the trivialities of human gender now (beyond the fact that we still need them to be played by humans).

It's inevitable that there will be human non-superbeings who have a problem with this. To be fair to them (why?), it's probably less about opposition to an intergalactic alien superbeing being female, and more about their reactionary attitudes being further delegitimised by the demonstration that it IS possible to move with the times


----------



## Wilf (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> It would take a brave reviewer to call that spade a spade in the current climate. They'd instantly be swamped with social media hate mail and accusations of misogyny and they know it.
> 
> The performance would have had to have been truly truly awful for them to believe they could escape unscathed for dissing a newly minted female Doctor (a shining Beacon for wimin everywhere etc.) and it was merely 'pretty bad'.


Lucky that you are so brave then.  

Actually, I really should leave you to it, to do your thing, feel you've done it, then move on.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 10, 2018)

existentialist said:


> You managed to wibble about "political correctness" twice in one post. You appear to have a bit of a hair up your arse about it.


Is Sodapop and anagram of bungle73?


----------



## existentialist (Oct 10, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Is Sodapop and anagram of bungle73?


Haha, I think if bungle73 ever found himself returning under an alias, he'd feel he was under a moral obligation to instantly out himself to the mods.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 10, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I think your average TV reviewer is perfectly capable of negotiating the rocks and shoals of people's objections to their criticisms. It's pretty cheap (and fairly transparent sexism) for you to be writing off the fact that a character you didn't like must have only been well-reviewed because of her gender. That's straight out of the "why isn't there a White History Month?" playbook.
> 
> And what the little "wimin" jibe about? *awaits overexplanation about how gromit is being supportive of the feminist movement*


Actor not character.
I like the character fine it was the acting that was not worthy of praise. But as I said previously I blame the writers partly for that and hope it improves. 

I also am not saying she was well reviewed because of her gender but because of the big fuss that was made about her gender running up to this. Big difference. 
You surely can't deny her being female is a big fucking deal where as in other shows its no biggie.

Finally as well as fear of *heavy* criticism theres also the desire to jump on the bandwagon of stuff seen as cool to like. Right now supporting Jodie is cool.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 10, 2018)

8ball said:


> If we want to be all "canon sci fi bore" about it, isn't there a history of Timelords being able to change sex at the point of re-generation that goes back to the shows in the 1980s?
> 
> edit2: I see Mr La Rouge already made this point


Yup: Tom Baker's Doctor (and how much more Canon do you need than that?) has Time Lord contemporaries who change gender at regeneration.  One of my examples being a case in point.

It's been _long_ established that Time Lords can do this.  So when people think the Doctor should be exempt from this Time Lord characteristic, it really says more about the objector than anything.

Time Lords change hair colour, height, accent, skin colour, eye colour, rings slip off fingers and don't fit any more, their taste in fashion changes, they take up the recorder, develop a taste for jelly babies, grow back hands if severed during the regeneration process, they have joined ear lobes or hanging ear lobes, crave fish fingers and custard, go from straight to curly hair and back, and all manner of things.  None of which these blow-ins object to.  But the title character changes gender and their world caves in.  Despite the decades of Who Canon telling us this is something to expect.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 10, 2018)

Sodapop said:


> It's a litany on gender, colour and social economic political correctness.


This is my favourite bit, though.  I'd be interested* in examples of any of those things in Saturday's episode.


(*By which I mean that Sodapop is a frothing dullard).


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 10, 2018)

Well, kids were invited to think of bus drivers as proper human beings. Which will be useful on not a few busses around Brixton around mid-afternoon on a school day.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 10, 2018)

Also, we gained the shocking revelation that not everybody in Sheffield is white but that this doesn’t stop them from being _everyday people_.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Actor not character.
> I like the character fine it was the acting that was not worthy of praise. But as I said previously I blame the writers partly for that and hope it improves.
> 
> I also am not saying she was well reviewed because of her gender but because of the big fuss that was made about her gender running up to this. Big difference.
> ...



In that case, I was "cool" 20 years ago when I liked this


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 10, 2018)

8ball said:


> If we want to be all "canon sci fi bore" about it, isn't there a history of Timelords being able to change sex at the point of re-generation that goes back to the shows in the 1980s?
> 
> edit2:  I see Mr La Rouge already made this point
> 
> ...


Troughtons doctor was forced into regeration and exiled to earth by the timelords, he didnt choose


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Troughtons doctor was forced into regeration and exiled to earth by the timelords, he didnt choose



He was forced to regenerate, but I think he chose the face.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> It's been _long_ established that Time Lords can do this.  So when people think the Doctor should be exempt from this Time Lord characteristic, it really says more about the objector than anything.



Well, at the very least I think it means they're not all that familiar with the show, and feel a bit of a threat from change.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 10, 2018)

8ball said:


> He was forced to regenerate, but I think he chose the face.



Iirc, going by the book - he was offered several choices and none of them were to his liking, so the TLs may have chosen his visage...


----------



## existentialist (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Actor not character.
> I like the character fine it was the acting that was not worthy of praise. But as I said previously I blame the writers partly for that and hope it improves.
> 
> I also am not saying she was well reviewed because of her gender but because of the big fuss that was made about her gender running up to this. Big difference.
> ...


First of all, the character/role thing looks to me like an artificial distinction that's just intended to muddy the waters.

And all the subtle positioning you do in your first paragraphs is rather undermined by you reiterating this whole idea that it's all about the agendas.

I'm not someone who is particularly engaged with Doctor Who, so I'm watching this whole business from the outside. I wasn't really caught up in the hoopla about there being a female Doctor except as much as it was reported in the mainstream press. And I don't really have a dog in the fight beyond being pleased that TV programmes continue to update their tropes to better reflect the values of the time. When Doctor Who was first broadcast, the notion of a female Doctor would have been laughable, if not downright inconceivable. There just no way that the prevailing values then would have allowed the kind of archetype Doctor Who represented to be be embodied in a woman.

Fortunately, those times have changed. Now, a female lead character who displays the kind of qualities that Doctor Who has is perfectly plausible, and not the wild leap of fantasy it would have been to late-1950s TV executives. So why not? After all, we'd presumably like to think that if the Doctor Who franchise was starting today, there would be a reasonable chance that the Doctor could be either male or female?

After all, Doctor Who has been played by quite a few people who were very dissimilar from each other, easily as dissimilar from someone who was simply adding difference of gender to a long list of others. Is Jodie Whittaker's Doctor really any more different on any number of other characteristics from her predecessors as, say, Tom Baker and Peter Davison were from each other? Assuming we're not sticking gender front and centre.

I don't know if you're for real, or just trolling it, but your apparent total unawareness of some of the not-so-subtleties (and I'm speaking as someone who stays well out of the way on the fiercer debates, because I'm aware of my own limitations there) is quite alarming, especially given the number of discussions around them you've participated in -  you join in these debates, but you never seem to take anything away from them, and come back any more informed the next time around. It's strange.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 10, 2018)

existentialist said:


> First of all, the character/role thing looks to me like an artificial distinction that's just intended to muddy the waters.
> 
> And all the subtle positioning you do in your first paragraphs is rather undermined by you reiterating this whole idea that it's all about the agendas.
> 
> ...


Nice long post but in your so called neutral position how was her acting? Be honest. Praise worthy?

That's all I'm concerned about. 

I hated Tennent's acting too. 
I hated that it was praised simply because lots of people think he's fit.
I hate any judgement where it's wrong and based in secondary factors. 

I honestly don't give a shit about whether the Doctor is female or not but it's a fun playground to wind up those taking it oh so seriously.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Iirc, going by the book - he was offered several choices and none of them were to his liking, so the TLs may have chosen his visage...



You're right - he dithered and they chose for him.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Nice long post but in your so called neutral position how was her acting? Be honest. Praise worthy?


I didn't watch it. I am not talking about whether your critique of her performance was correct; I'm talking about the stuff you wrap around it - all that nonsense about how nobody can say she's crap because she's a woman.

Nor do I think I said I was neutral. But I'm certainly not partisan about any aspect of the show.


----------



## lazythursday (Oct 10, 2018)

I thought she was great. Completely believable as The Doctor. And she's a bloody good actress in general. But even if you didn't buy into her straight away I'm not sure it's fair to judge her performance based on one episode, which was always going to be a tricky one due to having to introduce so many new characters.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2018)

Not sure if I like listening to _hitherto unrecognized_ fans of who hold forth on the fiction most or being patronised by The Fornicator. Maybe the latter, the username sounds like a sex pest Gladiator so theres that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 10, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Not sure if I like listening to _hitherto unrecognized_ fans of who hold forth on the fiction most or being patronised by The Fornicator. Maybe the latter, the username sounds like a sex pest Gladiator so theres that.


Sex pests ready!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 10, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> You think Whittaker is a bad actor? I think you’d be hard pressed to find any professional reviewers who share that view.


I think she's a terrible Doctor. Probably the worst yet. And no, it's nothing to do with her being a woman. Dr Donna was brilliant.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> I honestly don't give a shit about whether the Doctor is female or not but it's a fun playground to wind up those taking it oh so seriously.


Because you don't actually think it's serious?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I think she's a terrible Doctor. Probably the worst yet. And no, it's nothing to do with her being a woman. Dr Donna was brilliant.



One episode in seems a little soon for such conclusions.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 10, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Iirc, going by the book - he was offered several choices and none of them were to his liking, so the TLs may have chosen his visage...


In the episode no choice was offered,  I was really miffed at the timelords, not got round to that target yet only started reading them six months ago


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 10, 2018)

8ball said:


> One episode in seems a little soon for such conclusions.



Yes, it took me several episodes to warm to _Doctor Donna_. It wasn't the change of the show's title, obviously. We'd all been wondering for years what the Doctor's real name was, after all...


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I think she's a terrible Doctor. Probably the worst yet. And no, it's nothing to do with her being a woman. Dr Donna was brilliant.



didn't you shit on mcoy a few posts back? Given he's one of the best doctors I think I can safely discard your opinion on the matter. I bet you can't name a single story without googling. False nerd.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2018)

kabbes said:


> The Doctor isn’t a woman or a man.  The doctor is an alien.  It’s clear that the Doctor has not been socialised as any kind of human.  Her biological sex right now is female.  Female alien.



I read that as "his biological sex right now is female".  Funny how these things bed into your mind.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 10, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> In the episode no choice was offered,  I was really miffed at the timelords, not got round to that target yet only started reading them six months ago



Read my first Target 40 years ago!


----------



## Wilf (Oct 10, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> False nerd.



Like that. Ersatz nerd?


----------



## Gromit (Oct 10, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Because you don't actually think it's serious?


It's a TV show. Poor highly paid Jodie having people be mean to her on the internet! I'd swap places with her in an instant.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 10, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I think she's a terrible Doctor. Probably the worst yet. And no, it's nothing to do with her being a woman. Dr Donna was brilliant.


McCoy. End argument on worst doctor. Nothing to do with him being a man.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 10, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I didn't watch it. I am not talking about whether your critique of her performance was correct; I'm talking about the stuff you wrap around it - all that nonsense about how nobody can say she's crap because she's a woman.
> 
> Nor do I think I said I was neutral. But I'm certainly not partisan about any aspect of the show.


I'll say it once again as it's not getting through. Not because she is a woman. But because of the *big fuss*, sensitivities, whatever of a woman taking a role previously male and all the metoo stuff that's the big topic of the moment in the industry.

If she'd taken over 2 years earlier it might have been different.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> It's a TV show. Poor highly paid Jodie having people be mean to her on the internet! I'd swap places with her in an instant.


Oh, so you're acknowledging you're "being mean"?  In any event, your claimed willingness to swap places with her as some kind of demonstration that what people like you are doing and saying isn't unreasonable proves nothing, and certainly not your point.

ETA: anyway, we're well into wrestling-with-pigs territory here, so I think I'll climb out of the mire and leave you to it...


----------



## killer b (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> I'll say it once again as it's not getting through.


I wonder why.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 10, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Read my first Target 40 years ago!


I had a deprived childhood my first target was rose.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> McCoy. End argument on worst doctor. Nothing to do with him being a man.


Depends on your point of view, for me it was tennant, I really liked McCoy. Luckily we have plenty to choose from so as fans we can just watch the ones we like.


----------



## strung out (Oct 10, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> In the episode no choice was offered,  I was really miffed at the timelords, not got round to that target yet only started reading them six months ago


At the end of The War Games, Troughton's Doctor was given five choices, one too old, one too fat, one too thin, one too young (off camera), and one that 'wouldn't do at all'. When the Doctor objected to all of them on the bases above, the Time Lords took the choices away and gave him John Pertwee's face.

 







Video here


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 10, 2018)




----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 10, 2018)

Gromit said:


> I'll say it once again as it's not getting through. Not because she is a woman. But because of the *big fuss*, sensitivities, whatever of a woman taking a role previously male and all the metoo stuff that's the big topic of the moment in the industry.
> 
> If she'd taken over 2 years earlier it might have been different.




Hang on. There is always a big fuss over the new Dr Who.


----------



## kittyP (Oct 10, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> I've always thought either Miranda Richardson or Julie Walters would make a great Dr Who.



Oooh Miranda Richardson would definitely work!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 10, 2018)

kittyP said:


> Oooh Miranda Richardson would definitely work!




Wouldn't she?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 10, 2018)

Jodie Whittaker is a very good actor and i thought she was totally convincing in the part. Im looking forward to seeing what she does with it. She seems a good fit for the role and nothing seemed forced. Fuck knows what grommit is on about.

Compare with christopher eccleston - a very good actor, but he never seemed comfortable with it - especially when he was trying to do "whacky alien".

but if you want shit acting in doctor who then try  Freema Agyeman. Reviewers were very brave in facing down the pc hordes because her performances were widely panned - despite her being female and black.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 10, 2018)

Tennant is a really skilled actor.  His Hamlet is excellent.  

I can see why his doctor might rub people up the wrong way, but bad acting is a thing*, and that wasn’t it.  

Freema Agyeman, is a perfect example of truly terrible acting.  

*In a nutshell “do the lines sound like the person just decided to say them - factoring in their personality, experiences, and short and long-term motivations.  Can they be equally convincing regardless of the situation the character is in, regardless of its extremity or level of difference from the actor’s own lived experience?”


----------



## existentialist (Oct 10, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Tennant is a really skilled actor.  His Hamlet is excellent.
> 
> I can see why his doctor might rub people up the wrong way, but bad acting is a thing*, and that wasn’t it.
> 
> ...


...all of which is why I think I could only ever be an average actor. Though my Peter in "Company" got some good reviews - apparently I played a repressed gay man (playing to a gay guy playing a straight man  ) very well, according to my co-actor's gay friends...


----------



## D'wards (Oct 10, 2018)

Since Dr Who came back I've had a couple of abortive attempts to get into it, normally when a new Dr turns up.

I've always been put off by the call-backs to previous characters, story lines and baddies with no exposition for newbies at all.

However, this time it seems it's more of a scorched earth policy so it's all new and therefore I will be able to follow what the goddamn hell is going on.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 11, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> I've always thought either Miranda Richardson or Julie Walters would make a great Dr Who.


I always thought Olivia Colman would have been _perfect_ - comedy, great actor, the lot - but they would both have been great too. Do I remember right that Colman was considered but had clashing schedules or summat?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 11, 2018)

Anyway, remember a couple of years ago when we were all shitting it that it might be Kris Marshal? phew.


----------



## Helen Back (Oct 11, 2018)

With the Troughton choices thing, it's interesting how one of them (the 3rd one?) kinda resembles Peter Davison...

And speaking of Troughton, this is from Tomb of the Cybermen:

VICTORIA: You probably can't remember your family. 
DOCTOR: Oh yes, I can when I want to. And that's the point, really. I have to really want to, to bring them back in front of my eyes. The rest of the time they sleep in my mind, and I forget.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 11, 2018)

tommers said:


> I liked it. Bit silly. The 6 year old is a bit traumatised though I think.


It's like a discarded Sarah Jane script. Maybe that is why they have four characters and no Tardis now. Less rewrites.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 11, 2018)

D'wards said:


> What clothing do people prefer; wacky or sober?
> View attachment 149192


Why's the new one the only one forced to smile?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2018)




----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 11, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Depends on your point of view, for me it was tennant, I really liked McCoy. Luckily we have plenty to choose from so as fans we can just watch the ones we like.


 Tennant was the best Doctor ever in the history of Doctors! McCoy was the pits.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 11, 2018)

See, it depends on your point of view


----------



## KeeperofDragons (Oct 11, 2018)

Enloyed it & am looking forward to how her character develops


----------



## Mab (Oct 11, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> thought that was pretty good fun. shes is very good. and thank fuck they have ditched the terrible over dramatic, over loud, intrusive back ground music thats plagued dr who ever since the re-boot.



So true with the previous too loud background. I really liked it and have loved Jodie Whittaker since she starred with the  great Peter O'Toole in the film Venus. 
Thought this music was great and it just aired in Canada  this week on space tv. that has free showing.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 12, 2018)

You're all getting it wrong.  Age and prior experience of other doctors weighs too heavily on views of what the current series is, whether impenetrable Moffat or the latest cheese aimed at a younger audience.

As a middle aged lover of Pertwee and Baker (almost to the point of obsession as a kid/teenager), the current series (and I'm actually talking about since Ecclestone) doesn't deliver the same frisson.  And I've come to realise that it *never* will. Whether the doctor is female, trans or whatever, I don't care.

If the scripts are good I'll enjoy it.  If they aren't I won't.  It's my choice to watch it.

I enjoyed Ecclestone and some of Tennant, but none of it can touch the thrill I had as a 4/5/6/7/8/9 year old watching Tom Baker.  That's ok though, because things have moved on and I realise I am not the centre of the universe around which the new show should genuflect.

I was really pleased to see that they cast a woman, because the show can go in any direction it wants.  And if it had cast a woman in the seventies I would have watched it with the same wide eyed wonder.  It will live and die on the scripts and the audience that chooses to watch it.  No single viewer has the right to determine its direction.

The thrill of 70s Doctor Who will never leave me, I'm grateful for that (I posted about this on another thread where I went to the BFT showing of the 50th anniversary episode).  And that's enough for me, I'd never expect the show to bend to my will.  The only constant is change etc.

Stop getting Dr Who wrong!


----------



## two sheds (Oct 12, 2018)

I enjoyed it. I've occasionally dipped into various Dr. Who episodes over the years ever since watching the daleks from behind the sofa in the 60s. This is the first episode I've seen since then that's made me want to watch more.


----------



## Chz (Oct 12, 2018)

Well New Who is never going to be like Old Who in this day and age. Primarily due to the packaging. Serialisation for the sake of it is dead. There are very, very few stories in Old Who that can actually justify the 4-8 episodes they've been stretched out to. And if you stream them back to back, it's really apparent that that's what they're doing - stretching it out. I swear it's agonising. No-one would do that now, barring soap operas.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 12, 2018)

Chz said:


> Well New Who is never going to be like Old Who in this day and age. Primarily due to the packaging. Serialisation for the sake of it is dead. There are very, very few stories in Old Who that can actually justify the 4-8 episodes they've been stretched out to. And if you stream them back to back, it's really apparent that that's what they're doing - stretching it out. I swear it's agonising. No-one would do that now, barring soap operas.



Yup. Reading the books as a kid and then eventually getting to see some of them, I was struck by just how well the Target books cut out the padding, ropey acting and cheap sets. I still love classic Who but it just so much of its timey wimey.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 12, 2018)

the shoehorned in non-cliffhangers. no.


----------



## Santino (Oct 12, 2018)

I think the drip-feeding of plot was one of the things that made it so compelling in the olden days. A bit like eating one rasher of bacon a week during the war must have made bacon seem like fried gold.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2018)

Santino said:


> I think the drip-feeding of plot was one of the things that made it so compelling in the olden days. A bit like eating one rasher of bacon a week during the war must have made bacon seem like fried gold.


never got as bad as that, a quarter of a pound a week was as bad as it got


in the auld days dr who actually had a plot which would last longer than an hour


----------



## Santino (Oct 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> never got as bad as that, a quarter of a pound a week was as bad as it got
> View attachment 149483
> 
> in the auld days dr who actually had a plot which would last longer than an hour


And could everyone afford that much bacon?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2018)

Santino said:


> And could everyone afford that much bacon?


the first whiff of criticism and off those goalposts roll


----------



## Santino (Oct 12, 2018)

Apology accepted.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2018)

Santino said:


> Apology accepted.


it's traditional to await an apology before accepting it.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 12, 2018)

Anyway back to who  , I rewatched with eldest granddaughter yesterday she enjoyed it but did say it only felt like Dr Who towards the end, she liked the theme and thought jodie is very good as the Doctor, which is a relief as she really liked capaldi. I have to say I found it improved on rewatch,  not that i didnt like it first time round  but you do get to see little touches you missed before, I noticed that there some lovely little echos of capaldi during the train scenes, I liked the music a bit more than I did first time round all in all I'm very happy with this episode and am looking forward to the rest.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 12, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Anyway back to who  , I rewatched with eldest granddaughter yesterday she enjoyed it but did say it only felt like Dr Who towards the end, she liked the theme and thought jodie is very good as the Doctor, which is a relief as she really liked capaldi.


BOOM.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Anyway back to who  , I rewatched with eldest granddaughter yesterday she enjoyed it but did say it only felt like Dr Who towards the end, she liked the theme and thought jodie is very good as the Doctor, which is a relief as she really liked capaldi. I have to say I found it improved on rewatch,  not that i didnt like it first time round  but you do get to see little touches you missed before, I noticed that there some lovely little echos of capaldi during the train scenes, I liked the music a bit more than I did first time round all in all I'm very happy with this episode and am looking forward to the rest.


Somewhat unfairly, I’m going to use your point to illustrate a point.

We talk about Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi, but Whittaker seems to get the less respectful “first name terms” Jodie. 

I remember at my stuffy grammar school we were instructed to use surnames for writers of literature, but when we studied Pride and Prejudice we were expected to write “Jane Austen” every time. 

But this isn’t even that.  Unless this thread is going to be talking about Chris, David, Matt and Peter - like we’re all old friends, can we not do it just to the woman?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> We talk about Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi, but Whittaker seems to get the less respectful “first name terms” Jodie.



I thought maybe that was kind of led by the thread title.  
Every time I read it I wonder who Jodie Chibnall is.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 12, 2018)

8ball said:


> I thought maybe that was kind of led by the thread title.
> Every time I read it I wonder who Jodie Chibnall is.


I have to admit, I Googled Jodie Chibnall to find out who she was.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Somewhat unfairly, I’m going to use your point to illustrate a point.
> 
> We talk about Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi, but Whittaker seems to get the less respectful “first name terms” Jodie.
> 
> ...



Well I didn't go to grammar school, and never considered it a big thing (some of my teachers at my ordinary state modern school were called by their first names by pupils for example, maybe for that reason I don't view it as a matter of "respect" in the same way), and am perfectly happy to refer to any Doctor by the first name of the actor - surnames only can be tricky since there are two Bakers anyway.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> ...surnames only can be tricky since there are two Bakers anyway.



There are two Peters.

Or are there?


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

8ball said:


> There are two Peters.
> 
> Or are there?



I think Peter D. was underrated, he was Doctor at a difficult time following Tom, and with reduced budget and interest from the Beeb.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

And if I was "guilty" of referring to the current Doctor as "Jodie", rather than "Whittaker", it is because yeah I felt that for the first time ever, in DECADES of being a Doctor Who fan, I could relate to this one better, SO FUCKING SORRY, apparently I fucked it up and am a disrespectful misogynist.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> And if I was "guilty" of referring to the current Doctor as "Jodie", rather than "Whittaker", it is because yeah I felt that for the first time ever, in DECADES of being a Doctor Who fan, I could relate to this one better, SO FUCKING SORRY, apparently I fucked it up and am a disrespectful misogynist.


Proportionate response?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> And if I was "guilty" of referring to the current Doctor as "Jodie", rather than "Whittaker", it is because yeah I felt that for the first time ever, in DECADES of being a Doctor Who fan, I could relate to this one better, SO FUCKING SORRY, apparently I fucked it up and am a disrespectful misogynist.



Go and sit on the naughty step.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Proportionate response?



Yes, when being told that anyone who referred to her as Jodie was in the wrong, yes - proportionate.  You don't think it's been difficult being a female fan of Doctor Who for as long as I have?  Without other women fans saying calling her "Jodie" is disrespectful?  It's ludicrous.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 12, 2018)

I'm looking forward to seeing the next episode I have to say. 
I think it always takes til episode 3 or 4 to get used to a new Dr.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 12, 2018)

Bit defensive. No need. We live in changing times. You want to try and adjust to all this from a birth date in the early 1960s. We didn't even have women then, just mums and totty.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 12, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Bit defensive. No need. We live in changing times. You want to try and adjust to all this from a birth date in the early 1960s. We didn't even have women then, just mums and totty.


I am doing.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

Also, I do wonder whether the departure from referring to the Doctor by the surname of the actor is a move away from the whole public school thing of referring to people by surnames - that doesn't happen in ordinary schools, we do not in general refer to people by their surname if we feel we are their peers.  We do not say things like "I hear that Chivers got detention again" - we call people by their first names.   If the first Doctor people do this with is a woman, it is because it has broken open that whole public school boys club thing that a lot of us feel goes on in the acting industry, and that is not a bad thing, and it is not disrespectful.  It means we've warmed to her.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 12, 2018)

No. Really no. Where did you get this public school tangent from, someone mentioning a grammar school? Makes no sense.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> Also, I do wonder whether the departure from referring to the Doctor by the surname of the actor is a move away from the whole public school thing of referring to people by surnames - that doesn't happen in ordinary schools...



It used to in the comp I went to.  Not sure if it was related to being near a military base.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

It's fine if you don't agree with me, but to say that me referring to the current actor of the Doctor by her first name is somehow diminishing her is absolutely ludicrous.

I am just trying to make sense of why anyone may say that.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 12, 2018)

The domain www.thepatriarchy.com is currently up for sale.
See what feminism has done to us?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> Also, I do wonder whether the departure from referring to the Doctor by the surname of the actor is a move away from the whole public school thing of referring to people by surnames - that doesn't happen in ordinary schools, we do not in general refer to people by their surname if we feel we are their peers.  We do not say things like "I hear that Chivers got detention again" - we call people by their first names.   If the first Doctor people do this with is a woman, it is because it has broken open that whole public school boys club thing that a lot of us feel goes on in the acting industry, and that is not a bad thing, and it is not disrespectful.  It means we've warmed to her.


I teach in an ordinary school.  You refer to writers, actors, directors- by their surnames.  My point about it being a stuffy grammar was that treating women differently to men was old fashioned.  

If society in general was moving away from the “surname protocol” for people we don’t know, the evidence would be all over this thread when referring to the male actors.  It isn’t.  

I was an actor.   I work with children, some of whom want to be actors.  

Female actors are paid less, have fewer opportunities and are underepresented in casting gender-irrelevant roles.  In my industry, this shit matters.  I’m not going to apologise for politely pointing out an inequality that a whole stack of posters were repeating.  Urban is less reactionary these days, about gender equality.  This sort of thing shouldn’t be greeted with wailing and gnashing of teeth when pointed out.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

I do think it is a class or upbringing thing perhaps, I do not consider it disrespectful to call someone by their first name if you feel they are your peer.  If this is the first time that maybe a lot of us have felt that the Doctor is our peer.  Let's not get too hung up on the idea of using a first name as being disrespectful.  It can also indicate a feeling of closeness.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 12, 2018)

I thought we'd all agreed to call chibnal chin balls


----------



## 8ball (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> I do think it is a class or upbringing thing perhaps.



And an army thing.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> We talk about Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi, but Whittaker seems to get the less respectful “first name terms” Jodie.


"less respectful" - do you really think that? I sometimes think I use first names in relation to people, bosses at work for example, who have shown [me] empathy and kindness/understanding, qualities research has endlessly shown tend to be more feminine. That represents the opposite of disrespect.

I'm no Who expert but have we previously seen the Doctor sharing philosophical thoughts about grieving and bereavement in their first episode?


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

I mean think about it - is your main argument in life right now to "correct" a lifelong female Doctor Who fan who finally got a Doctor that she could imagine herself being, by shaming her into backing off from first name terms, because it doesn't fit with your idea of giving proper respect?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> You refer to writers, actors, directors- by their surnames.



I don't tbf.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 12, 2018)

Suppose it all depends on the circs. Referring to someone you know by their surname is usually an attempt to be _disrespectful_. When it comes to people you don't know personally, it all gets a bit... 'depends'.  I tend to express my detestation of Theresa May via her full name, never go for 'Boris', alternate between Blair and Tony Blair etc etc.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Somewhat unfairly, I’m going to use your point to illustrate a point.
> 
> We talk about Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi, but Whittaker seems to get the less respectful “first name terms” Jodie.
> 
> ...


Good point, I was being lazy


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 12, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> BOOM.


?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 12, 2018)

8ball said:


> I don't tbf.


Neither do I. I usually call them by their full name.
Seems like a bit of a storm in a teacup. I'd say it's more respectful to call someone by their first name.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 12, 2018)

I just call them Dr Who.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> "less respectful" - do you really think that? I sometimes think I use first names in relation to people, bosses at work for example, who have shown [me] empathy and kindness/understanding, qualities research has endlessly shown tend to be more feminine. That represents the opposite of disrespect.
> 
> I'm no Who expert but have we previously seen the Doctor sharing philosophical thoughts about grieving and bereavement in their first episode?


Oh piss off you pompous pretentious prig


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

Either that was a superb piece of irony (which I think it was) or you have just wandered into the internet equivalent of quicksand... 

Edit: that was supposed to be a quote of Pippin's post, apparently I cannot even get the simplest thing right today - quoting, being a female Doctor Who fan, apparently I am doing it all wrong.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> Either that was a superb piece of irony (which I think it was) or you have just wandered into the internet equivalent of quicksand...
> 
> Edit: that was supposed to be a quote of Pippin's post, apparently I cannot even get the simplest thing right today - quoting, being a female Doctor Who fan, apparently I am doing it all wrong.


It's just that sort of day at work too


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 12, 2018)

Christopher Eccles Cake should be the currant Doctor.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> I mean think about it - is your main argument in life right now to "correct" a lifelong female Doctor Who fan who finally got a Doctor that she could imagine herself being, by shaming her into backing off from first name terms, because it doesn't fit with your idea of giving proper respect?


Well, given that I was quoting a poster who wasn’t you, and referred to multiple posters having done it, it would be odd of me to write hoping that you would intuit it as a direct and personal attack on you.  

I’d like to think if I wanted to correct a specific poster, I might do something in my post to show that I was directing my criticism to them, individually.  

I’m glad you think of Jodie Whittaker as a peer - but I see no reason why you would therefore put a stack of male actors in the “not your peer” category.  

As I have repeatedly said, what I’m asking for is consistency between male and female actors.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> "less respectful" - do you really think that? I sometimes think I use first names in relation to people, bosses at work for example, who have shown [me] empathy and kindness/understanding, qualities research has endlessly shown tend to be more feminine. That represents the opposite of disrespect.
> 
> I'm no Who expert but have we previously seen the Doctor sharing philosophical thoughts about grieving and bereavement in their first episode?


It’s just a convention.  When referring to professional in certain fields, who are not personally known to us, we don’t tend to use their first names.  Hence Tennant and Capaldi, rather than David and Peter.  

If you think the convention should be different, and that first names should be the rule, I’ve no massive problem with that.  I just don’t want separate conventions for women.  This isn’t controversial- it’s feminism 101.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Well, given that I was quoting a poster who wasn’t you, and referred to multiple posters having done it, it would be odd of me to write hoping that you would intuit it as a direct and personal attack on you.
> 
> I’d like to think if I wanted to correct a specific poster, I might do something in my post to show that I was directing my criticism to them, individually.
> 
> ...



Well I did refer to her as Jodie early on in the thread, so even if you didn't directly quote me I felt I was being called on it.

Fwiw, I called Jon Pertwee Jon, because he was friends with my mum, and Tom Baker was Tom because I met him a few times.  It's you making this into a huge thing, as if it is a massive gender issue, and it really isn't.  And not all women, even feminists like me, need to agree on your strict naming conventions - I am not fully up with what the correct terms are in theatre or literature.

If it makes you feel better that I refer to her as Whittaker from now on, then I will do so, out of wanting to make you feel ok.

EDIT: Massive compromise from me on my first Doctor that I felt represented me, over some really stupid name thing.  But she isn't just my Doctor, I need to respect what other people want her to be to me also.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> Fwiw, I called Jon Pertwee Jon, because he was friends with my mum, and Tom Baker was Tom because I met him a few times.  It's you making this into a huge thing, as if it is a massive gender issue, and it really isn't.  And not all women, even feminists, need to agree on your strict naming conventions/


You’ve just proved my point.  The ones  you know, you call by their first name.   

Do you genuinely believe that people across this thread have called the male doctors by their surnames and Whittaker by her first name, for reasons entirely unrelated to their gender?


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 12, 2018)

Your argument wasn't gender per se it was disrespect.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> You’ve just proved my point.  The ones  you know, you call by their first name.
> 
> Do you genuinely believe that people across this thread have called the male doctors by their surnames and Whittaker by her first name, for reasons entirely unrelated to their gender?



How the fuck is calling someone by their surname a sign of respect?  It is not that in my world, it is a sign of distance.  It shows that you don't know someone, not that you respect them.  I am so glad I have not lived my life with people barking out my surname and expecting me to call them by theirs - using the first name indicates a CLOSENESS as I already said.

I just feel this is some huge cultural gap that isn't going to be easily closed, and if you feel that people referring to the current actor of the Doctor by her first name is disrespectful rather than a sign of endearment, then I can't really say anything else to dissuade you from that.  Ma'am.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> How the fuck is calling someone by their surname a sign of respect?  It is not that in my world, it is a sign of distance.  It shows that you don't know someone, not that you respect them.  I am so glad I have not lived my life with people barking out my surname and expecting me to call them by theirs - using the first name indicates a CLOSENESS as I already said.
> 
> I just feel this is some huge cultural gap that isn't going to be easily closed, and if you feel that people referring to the current actor of the Doctor by her first name is disrespectful rather than a sign of endearment, then I can't really say anything else to dissuade you from that.  Ma'am.


I didn’t invent the convention.  And it’s hardly the stuff of lofty academia. I’m willing to bet, without checking - that on any gcse English / media studies / drama revision site, or film review site, you’ll find writers, actors, choreographers and directors (and on other sites, politicians, architects, scientists and astronauts) referred to by their full name or their last name, and not by their first name alone. As you will see the male actors playing the doctor, and the show runners, on this and other Doctor Who threads.  

There may be isolated one offs that buck the trend, but overwhelmingly that is how the convention works.  

And yet all of a sudden a whole stack of posters are writing “Jodie” - often in the same post as calling one of the male doctors by the actor’s surname.  How is it not a double standard?


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> I didn’t invent the convention.  And it’s hardly the stuff of lofty academia. I’m willing to bet, without checking - that on any gcse English / media studies / drama revision site, or film review site, you’ll find writers, actors, choreographers and directors (and on other sites, politicians, architects, scientists and astronauts) referred to by their full name or their last name, and not by their first name alone. As you will see the male actors playing the doctor, and the show runners, on this and other Doctor Who threads.
> 
> There may be isolated one offs that buck the trend, but overwhelmingly that is how the convention works.
> 
> And yet all of a sudden a whole stack of posters are writing “Jodie” - often in the same post as calling one of the male doctors by the actor’s surname.  How is it not a double standard?


Oh FFS it's a sign that people identify with her.  That is a good and positive thing and you are turning it round so it looks shit and making us (real fans, even feminist fans) feel like shit - for what exactly?  What precisely is your point?

I mean what will you gain by beating me down in this disagreement?  I mean if you want to make an elderly feminist Doctor Who fan feel shit because they used the wrong fucking word, you are going the right way about it. I mean lets not forget who the real enemy is, it's elderly feminists like me. But the whole argument is tedious.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Your argument wasn't gender per se it was disrespect.


I’m glad you know better than I, what my point was. I’ve always understood the last name convention to be about respect.  If I’m wrong about that (please show me the correct etymology) my irritation still stands. 

Using different styles of address for women than for men *is* happening on this thread.  And it’s hardly surprising that a feminist might want equality for women in all things.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> Oh FFS it's a sign that people identify with her.  That is a good and positive thing and you are turning it round so it looks shit and making us (real fans, even feminist fans) feel like shit - for what exactly?  What precisely is your point?


I asked you before.  Do you think that’s why others have done it?

It seems odd that in all the previous who threads that these or other posters, male or female, have never “identified” with any of the previous doctors to the same effect...


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> Either that was a superb piece of irony (which I think it was) or you have just wandered into the internet equivalent of quicksand...
> 
> Edit: that was supposed to be a quote of Pippin's post, apparently I cannot even get the simplest thing right today - quoting, being a female Doctor Who fan, apparently I am doing it all wrong.


Seems to be my fault.

When I wrote the thread title I didn’t know Chibnall’s first name off hand (still don’t as it happens), as I wasn’t familiar with his oeuvre, and I wasn’t sure how to spell Whittaker. (I have trouble with spelling and my general rule is - if it’s not in my spellcheck, I avoid using it). 

I do reserve the right to refer to the first Doctor of the reboot as “Eccles-cake” because it’s right and fitting, though.

I have no objection to the thread title being changed to whatever people think is proper.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> I asked you before.  Do you think that’s why others have done it?
> 
> It seems odd that in all the previous who threads that these or other posters, male or female, have never “identified” with any of the previous doctors to the same effect...



You don't know who I identify with, and you have no right to tell me who I should identify with.  You are being overbearing and should fuck off out of my TV fantasy sci-fi stuff.  You are not in charge of what women want or how we should be addressed.

Sorry for having my own opinion.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 12, 2018)

Can everyone just chill out, this is not the digital spy who forum . Lets just take a step back and  discuss Who instead.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

Seriously, I have spent more than 4 fucking decades campaigning for women's rights, LGBT rights, anti-racism and anti-fascism campains, I've been whacked with police batons for standing up for what I believe in, but it is apparently all meaningless because I am happy to refer to the first female Doctor by the actor's first name and that makes me a misogynist.   _so shoot me_


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 12, 2018)

Seems all a bit of fuss about nothing.

I am thinking of politicians here, I refer to some by their first names, some by their surnames, e.g. - Enoch, Boris, May, Thatcher, etc.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 12, 2018)

So  any one loookng forward to the tardis reveal, I avoided the leaked photos so it will be a surprise to me. Plus the grandson and youngest granddaughter are down today, youngest found it scary which as she is five is understandible, grandson who is eleven loved it and is very exited about the rest of the series, also persuaded my brother who got a bit ranty about it to give it another go and he rang be later to grudingly admit it was good though he still not totally happy with a female Doctor.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

I am massively looking forward to it, have avoided spoilers too.

I sent my mum an email after the last episode and got "well I wasn't very happy about a female Doctor but then I realised women have enough unfairnesses in life so this should not be denied them" - oh well mum, nice to know you are at least paying lip service.  If women were foxes we'd be alright by now (my mum was a hunt-sab back in the day). I know my brother is very anti, but I don't speak to him much (EDIT: This kind of sums up why I don't speak to him much tbh).


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 12, 2018)

My problem with my brother is you cant always tell if he winding you up, he's perfectly capable of keeping it going to the extreme and then laughs like a loon cause he got you going.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> My problem with my brother is you cant always tell if he winding you up, he's perfectly capable of keeping it going to the extreme and then laughs like a loon cause he got you going.



Unfortunatley with my brother it is clear he 100% believes the shit he comes out with, AND if you contradict it you are part of the conspiracy :/  And that covers everything from "The Pyramids could not have been built without aliens" (oh I once called him on this to gently suggest that it may be a little racist, and my entire family did not speak to me for 2 months) to the healing power of crystals, to there shouldn't be a female Doctor...


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 12, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> So any one loookng forward to the tardis reveal


Very much. I have been avoiding all the Who sites because I want to be thrilled and surprised at the same time as everyone else.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Very much. I have been avoiding all the Who sites because I want to be thrilled and surprised at the same time as everyone else.



The little devil on my shoulder hopes that it's all soft furnishings and cushions. Big "Live, Laugh, Love" poster on the wall. Machine-gun nest just inside the front door and Jodie going on a rampage to find whatever bunch of cunts tried to steal her Tardis.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

I think you mean Whittaker *shrug*


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> I think you mean Whittaker *shrug*



There was a lot of "Matt, Karen and Arthur" back when they were being great, so eh.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> There was a lot of "Matt, Karen and Arthur" back when they were being great, so eh.



Don't look at me!  Am just trying to conform to whatever the strongest voice is shouting.


----------



## Epona (Oct 12, 2018)

Did anyone call Matt Smith "Smith", or did they call him "Matt?" I never once called him "Smith"

Chris Ecclestone I always shortened to Chris too.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> Don't look at me!  Am just trying to conform to whatever the strongest voice is shouting.



No, no, no, not getting at you at all


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> Unfortunatley with my brother it is clear he 100% believes the shit he comes out with, AND if you contradict it you are part of the conspiracy :/  And that covers everything from "The Pyramids could not have been built without aliens" (oh I once called him on this to gently suggest that it may be a little racist, and my entire family did not speak to me for 2 months) to the healing power of crystals, to there shouldn't be a female Doctor...


Brothers can be total twats sometimes can't they.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 12, 2018)

D'wards said:


> I agree with this. Not watched it for years, and only watched to see if she would do ok, and she did.
> 
> Glad to see the baddie costumes are still endearingly creaky in that British way.



I actually thought the baddie was Noel Fielding in one of his Mighty Boosh costumes.


----------



## scifisam (Oct 12, 2018)

People are seriously disputing that famous actors and writers are much more likely to be referred to by their surname if they're male, and first name if they're female? Really? Fucking hell, urban. 

(Will post about the actual new season when I get a chance )


----------



## kabbes (Oct 12, 2018)

I had also picked up on what spangles picked up, which is why I quite consciously said this on p11:


kabbes said:


> There was stuff I liked.  Whittaker seems like an excellent Who.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 12, 2018)

Thanks - genuinely wondered if I’d stepped through the looking glass for a while.


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

scifisam said:


> People are seriously disputing that famous actors and writers are much more likely to be referred to by their surname if they're male, and first name if they're female? Really? Fucking hell, urban.
> 
> (Will post about the actual new season when I get a chance )



Look, I am autistic and have prosopagnosia, I also have massive difficulties with names, and when I first fucking posted on this thread I could not fucking remember what her fucking surname was or what she looked like, ok?  I could remember her first name, Jodie.  I am SO FUCKING SORRY that this has caused some of you to wet your fucking pants.

But go on, why don't you all have a few more digs.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2018)

Epona said:


> Look, I am autistic and have prosopagnosia, I also have massive difficulties with names, and when I first fucking posted on this thread I could not fucking remember what her fucking surname was or what she looked like, ok?  I could remember her first name, Jodie.  I am SO FUCKING SORRY that this has caused some of you to wet your fucking pants.
> 
> But go on, why don't you all have a few more digs.


It’s not all about you.  It’s a general point, that you have reacted to as if you’ve been personally called out.


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

I have met loads of you, I cannot recall what a single one of you looks like (everyone is blank faces) or be able to link a name to any of you, even if we may have been quite good friends in the past - you could say hi to me in the street and I would just be confused and probably a little frightened that I was getting something horribly wrong by not knowing who you were.  I can't remember names either, or link them to the bits of blank faces that I remember. So please don't make too fucking much of what I call someone, ok?  The fact I recognise ANYONE or can remember ANY name for them is a big thing for me.

Being called on stuff like this is utterly shit.  Sorry that I am unaware of "naming conventions" in the actor/entertainment industry, I am about as clueless as it gets.  I didn't realise it was a HUGE GREAT THING.


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> It’s not all about you.  It’s a general point, that you have reacted to as if you’ve been personally called out.



No, nothing is all about me, I am fully fucking aware of that, because no-one gives a flying fuck how I feel about anything.  Thanks for just confirming that.


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

So glad to have the name police putting me right on how I should refer to people though.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2018)

Epona said:


> I have met loads of you, I cannot recall what a single one of you looks like (everyone is blank faces) or be able to link a name to any of you, even if we may have been quite good friends in the past - you could say hi to me in the street and I would just be confused and probably a little frightened that I was getting something horribly wrong by not knowing who you were.  I can't remember names either, or link them to the bits of blank faces that I remember. So please don't make too fucking much of what I call someone, ok?  The fact I recognise ANYONE or can remember ANY name for them is a big thing for me.
> 
> Being called on stuff like this is utterly shit.  Sorry that I am unaware of "naming conventions" in the actor/entertainment industry, I am about as clueless as it gets.  I didn't realise it was a HUGE GREAT THING.


You are the only one getting het up.  I made a general point, to the thread, quoting a poster who was perfectly fine with the point I made.  

Then you turn up, assume it’s all about you, start throwing around hyperbole about “misogyny” and your ethical reputation of four decades being trashed, plus plenty of shouty capitals.   

And then you accuse *other people* of wetting their pants and making it a “HUGE BIG THING”.


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> You are the only one getting het up.  I made a general point, to the thread, quoting a poster who was perfectly fine with the point I made.
> 
> Then you turn up, assume it’s all about you, start throwing around hyperbole about “misogyny” and your ethical reputation of four decades being trashed, plus plenty of shouty capitals.
> 
> And then you accuse *other people* of wetting their pants and making it a “HUGE BIG THING”.



If you can't understand that I am having a bad night and just leave me the fuck alone, then you aren't very caring, very human, or a great supporter of women or mental health issues.  Just leave it now.  Unless you really want to "win" over someone who is in a bad state at the moment, in which case, have at it, rip me apart.


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

And actually fuck you and your judgement of me


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

I didn't make it an issue, YOU did.  I don't care what people call the Doctor.  It wasn't me who had an issue with calling the actor Jodie.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 13, 2018)

Lots of goalposts shifting - not you Epona, identity politics gorn mad.. Dodgy old thread title: very entitled and male. Only took 20 pages to not point it out.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> You are the only one getting het up.  I made a general point, to the thread, quoting a poster who was perfectly fine with the point I made.
> 
> Then you turn up, assume it’s all about you, start throwing around hyperbole about “misogyny” and your ethical reputation of four decades being trashed, plus plenty of shouty capitals.
> 
> And then you accuse *other people* of wetting their pants and making it a “HUGE BIG THING”.



Good job on the bullying there


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2018)

Epona said:


> If you can't understand that I am having a bad night and just leave me the fuck alone, then you aren't very caring, very human, or a great supporter of women or mental health issues.  Just leave it now.  Unless you really want to "win" over someone who is in a bad state at the moment, in which case, have at it, rip me apart.


You don’t have any kind of monopoly on mental health crises or bad nights.  But you don’t seem to conceive that other people might be struggling, so I’ll leave you to it.


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> You don’t have any kind of monopoly on mental health crises or bad nights.  But you don’t seem to conceive that other people might be struggling, so I’ll leave you to it.



Oh ffs, really, so I should rise above it when others cannot - nice...


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Good job on the bullying there


The fuck?

She’s been accusing me of all kinds for hours now, and I finally point out that the escalation has come from her, and that’s bullying?  What was her treatment of my original request?


----------



## Sea Star (Oct 13, 2018)

Gromit said:


> You remind me of [edit] who would try and take any conversation and make it about trans.
> Which is better the Ford Modeo or the Vauxhall Nova?
> Neither because the car industry hates trans people!


FUCK YOURSELF ARSEWIPE


----------



## Sea Star (Oct 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Fuck off, you twat.


YOU'RE A TWAT. FUCKING CUNT.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> The fuck?
> 
> She’s been accusing me of all kinds for hours now, and I finally point out that the escalation has come from her, and that’s bullying?  What was her treatment of my original request?



I think Doctor Jodie would be very, very disappointed with how this thread has developed tonight.


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> The fuck?
> 
> She’s been accusing me of all kinds for hours now, and I finally point out that the escalation has come from her, and that’s bullying?  What was her treatment of my original request?



I haven't accused you of anything, ffs...  I have been defending myself and my choice to refer to the current Doctor as Jodie, that is all... you aren't under attack at all

But you with your superior knowledge of how actors names work have been insisting that I am wrong and that it is sexist.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2018)

seriously, fuck this.  I make a general appeal for equality, have to defend my point against an onslaught of hyperbolic fury, and if I do anything other than stay calm in response, I’m a bully?  

I don’t know what to say...


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I think Doctor Jodie would be very, very disappointed with how this thread has developed tonight.


No.  You just accused me of bullying, and at this particular point in my life I’m kinda struggling with a whole bunch of shit, self esteem included.  So you’ll forgive me if I’m not inclined to laugh it off.  

Please tell me how I’m a bully.


----------



## Epona (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> No.  You just accused me of bullying, and at this particular point in my life I’m kinda struggling with a whole bunch of shit, self esteem included.  So you’ll forgive me if I’m not inclined to laugh it off.
> 
> Please tell me how I’m a bully.



Well how are we helping to sort our own individual shit out by ripping each other to pieces on a fucking internet thread about Doctor Who, disagreeing with other over stupid shit like whether I am allowed to call her Jodie - it is fucking ridiculous, and it's not good for either of us to continue this.  I've always had respect for you, and I just would like to think that you don't want to wish me harm in the same way I wish no harm of you - so please lets not continue this or get into more personal upset.  Tis a daft disagreement and we should be more supportive of one another.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> No.  You just accused me of bullying, and at this particular point in my life I’m kinda struggling with a whole bunch of shit, self esteem included.  So you’ll forgive me if I’m not inclined to laugh it off.
> 
> Please tell me how I’m a bully.



Perhaps reflect on it in the morning, eh? You went in two-footed here in a thread about a children's TV show where people are really well disposed to the first woman to play the role in 50-odd years. And like I said there was plenty of Matt, Karen and Arthur when it was their go.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Perhaps reflect on it in the morning, eh? You went in two-footed here in a thread about a children's TV show where people are really well disposed to the first woman to play the role in 50-odd years. And like I said there was plenty of Matt, Karen and Arthur when it was their go.


 Don't you start with that, Its a family show


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

Can we draw a line under this now, this thread should not involve so much effort


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

Never mind


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Irrelevant.
> 
> To quote a previous Doctor. "Time Machine."
> 
> Micky didn't die so that Rose could swan off. She was back before he knew she was gone because Time Machine.



Mickey was left waiting for months with ni idea where Rose had gone. It was a key plot point.


----------



## Omaplata (Oct 13, 2018)

I didnt realise but I'm all over the place with naming convention;
Hartnell, Troughton, Jon, Tom then 5-7 I use both names. Haven't really been into New Who but did see people using PCap on twitter


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2018)

Well using 'Baker' is obviously a problem.

And if using patrilineal surnames is the least sexist option, something may have gone sideways somewhere along the line. That said I would hope we could see that more harm is being done by the ongoing row than was done, still less intended, by whoever wrote the thread title.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2018)

Omaplata said:


> Haven't really been into New Who but did see people using *PCap* on twitter



This took me second to figure out. Thought it might be a reference to some kind of privilege-checking software.


----------



## scifisam (Oct 13, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Perhaps reflect on it in the morning, eh? You went in two-footed here in a thread about a children's TV show where people are really well disposed to the first woman to play the role in 50-odd years. And like I said there was plenty of Matt, Karen and Arthur when it was their go.



You've got to be kidding.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> This took me second to figure out.


I’ve still not got it.

Omaplata - PCap?


----------



## scifisam (Oct 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve still not got it.
> 
> Omaplata - PCap?



Peter Capaldi


----------



## Red Cat (Oct 13, 2018)

There was no calling out, there was a comment on how sexism manifests itself subtly in all sorts of ways, and that we should pay attention to that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

scifisam said:


> Peter Capaldi


Ah!


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Oct 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve still not got it.
> 
> Omaplata - PCap?


You shall henceforth be known as DORou or DLaR


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

QueenOfGoths said:


> You shall henceforth be known as DORou or DLaR


I was pronouncing it “PC - ap” in my head. It was getting me nowhere.  Had I known it was “P - Cap” it might have helped.

(Can I have « D - LaR » , please?)


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 13, 2018)

People should be kinder.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

S☼I said:


> People should be kinder.


Some volk are.


----------



## Santino (Oct 13, 2018)

S☼I said:


> People should be kinder.


Especially girls.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Some volk are.


A very germane comment.


----------



## scifisam (Oct 13, 2018)

S☼I said:


> People should be kinder.



Hmm. That's insinuating that people haven't been kind. Not sure that's a kind thing to do in itself.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 13, 2018)

scifisam said:


> Hmm. That's insinuating that people haven't been kind. Not sure that's a kind thing to do in itself.


I never made a commitment that _I_ would be kinder


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 13, 2018)

This thread title is still a disgrace, etc.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

Looking forward to tomorrow’s episode very much. Not just for the Tardis, but to see how the relationships pan out, and to see if the feels stays different from the Moffat era.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 13, 2018)

I think you'll find it's the Stephen era. Thanks.


----------



## Omaplata (Oct 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I was pronouncing it “PC - ap” in my head. It was getting me nowhere.  Had I known it was “P - Cap” it might have helped.
> 
> (Can I have « D - LaR » , please?)



Apologies, I should have been clearer. Although to be fair to me it took me ages to stop calling him Malcolm Tucker


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

Omaplata said:


> Apologies, I should have been clearer. Although to be fair to me it took me ages to stop calling him Malcolm Tucker


To me he’s the geeky guy from Local Hero.

(I’ve played music with people who were in bands with him too. I may have boasted about that before).


----------



## two sheds (Oct 13, 2018)

Thought you meant Jim Capaldi for a moment, was prepared to be proper impressed.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

two sheds said:


> Thought you meant Jim Capaldi for a moment, was prepared to be proper impressed.


No, but I did record in the studio in which another famous band recorded an inferior version of Love Hurts.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 13, 2018)

No idea who or what that is but I'm still impressed.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

two sheds said:


> No idea who or what that is but I'm still impressed.


(Nazareth).


----------



## two sheds (Oct 13, 2018)

Ooo 'Walk me out in the morning dew' Nazareth or the other one nobody's heard of?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

two sheds said:


> Ooo 'Walk me out in the morning dew' Nazareth or the other one nobody's heard of?


The Scottish rock band.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Looking forward to tomorrow’s episode very much. Not just for the Tardis, but to see how the relationships pan out, and to see if the feels stays different from the Moffat era.


Me to,  It look quite cinematic as well and it will be a chance to properly see a new doctor in action plus I want the tardis back I miss her.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 13, 2018)

S☼I said:


> People should be kinder.


Some people are.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> You don’t have any kind of monopoly on mental health crises or bad nights.


Nor do you have a monopoly on deciding how others should address actors. The only right and wrong way to address them is in your head.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2018)

Incidentally, there's no way a probationary filth would be attending response calls by herself. Filth do everything in pairs so there's always someone to confirm for the benefit of the jury that that old lady's umbrella really did look like a machine gun.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Nor do you have a monopoly on deciding how others should address actors. The only right and wrong way to address them is in your head.


From a feminist perspective it’s reasonable to ask people to use the same style for men and women, isn’t it? Or are you saying that all viewpoints on inequality matters are equally valid?


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 13, 2018)

Is it just me, or is urban a very angry place at the moment? 

All this horrible infighting and grief - surely urban's better than this.

Have a jellybaby everyone x


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> From a feminist perspective it’s reasonable to ask people to use the same style for men and women, isn’t it? Or are you saying that all viewpoints on inequality matters are equally valid?


Are you objecting to the title of the thread, we are now on p22 and no one has mentioned a name convention about that?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The Scottish rock band.



The proper one then 

not the later foreign tribute band.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Are you objecting to the title of the thread, we are now on p22 and no one has mentioned a name convention about that?


It was a post of mine that was used to make a valid point about the the fact  I used a much more familar way of refering to the female actor than the male actor I mentioned. It could have been an interesting sidebar conversation, it sadly didnt end up that way, perhaps  the subject could become a seperate thread.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 13, 2018)

Is it on again this sunday?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Is it on again this sunday?


Yes. Sundays are going to be its regular  slot.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> From a feminist perspective it’s reasonable to ask people to use the same style for men and women, isn’t it? Or are you saying that all viewpoints on inequality matters are equally valid?


The point you brought up is a non-issue, so I'm suggesting that your point has nothing to do with feminism. It's pure dictatorship.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> The point you brought up is a non-issue, so I'm suggesting that your point has nothing to do with feminism. It's pure dictatorship.


Go on.  Explain why it makes sense to use different styles of address to refer to professionals if they are women.  

I’d love to hear it.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 13, 2018)

I was going to suggest the different usage is that Chis, David, Mat and Peter are all such common names.

But Jodie is pretty common these days so carry on...


----------



## Gromit (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Go on.  Explain why it makes sense to use different styles of address to refer to professionals if they are women.
> 
> I’d love to hear it.


Do people think of actors (and other celebs) as professionals or more like friends? Someone they know?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 13, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Go on.  Explain why it makes sense to use different styles of address to refer to professionals if they are women.
> 
> I’d love to hear it.


It doesn't, and it didn't happen. It only happened in your head. I also have no idea where you've pulled this idea that famous men should be addressed by their surname, whilst women are addressed by their first name. I'm pushing 50 and I've never heard of it.
Just because a couple of people chose to refer to her as Jodie, doesn't mean it's the norm, as the majority of people on this thread didn't refer to her by her first name. You just seem to be making an issue of a non-issue.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 13, 2018)

I tend to get referred to by my last name or a nickname stemming from my last name. 

Ooh so peeps respect me more than my colleague with the same first name who gets referred to by that. Good to know


----------



## JimW (Oct 13, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> It doesn't, and it didn't happen. It only happened in your head. I also have no idea where you've pulled this idea that famous men should be addressed by their surname, whilst women are addressed by their first name. I'm pushing 50 and I've never heard of it.
> Just because a couple of people chose to refer to her as Jodie, doesn't mean it's the norm, as the majority of people on this thread didn't refer to her by her first name. You just seem to be making an issue of a non-issue.


It happens all the time and it was a perfectly reasonable observation, particularly the way it was put as a general point.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Do people think of actors (and other celebs) as professionals or more like friends? Someone they know?


This would make a good thread title to discuss this subject, a much better option than tripping over spoons and wading through bile whilst trying to discuss a Doctor Who episode.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 13, 2018)

If The Doctor had been female from day one, and some had the same first name, they would likely be mentioned using their their surnames, then if a male Doctor arrived, I'm sure he would get called by his first name by some. It's no different.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 13, 2018)

*ginger_syn*, I don't know who you are but may the force be with you.

I was talking to this poster about several posts like this, and why the title of the thread seems exempt from Feminism 101:



spanglechick said:


> And yet all of a sudden a whole stack of posters are writing “Jodie” - often in the same post as calling one of the male doctors by the actor’s surname.  How is it not a double standard?





spanglechick said:


> It’s just a convention.  When referring to professional in certain fields, who are not personally known to us, we don’t tend to use their first names.  Hence Tennant and Capaldi, rather than David and Peter.
> 
> If you think the convention should be different, and that first names should be the rule, I’ve no massive problem with that.  I just don’t want separate conventions for women.  This isn’t controversial- it’s feminism 101.


We all need reeducating at this difficult time, esp. perhaps about identity politics. What does Feminism 101 say about the thread title after 23 pages?


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

No idea, never took that class, im just narked at the nastiness.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

The Fornicator - What do solidarity, respect and honesty say about using terms like “Feminism 101”.

If you were trying to have a discussion in good faith it might be different. But you aren’t.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 13, 2018)

referring to some by their first name denotes informality, in the case of someone famous its a sort of faux chuminess (like that fat eton fuck with the stupid hair whose name escapes me).
If you are talking about the rolling stones as people, their personalities - you might say "mick and keef" - but if you were talking about their songwriting - calling them "jagger and richards" - would indicate that you focusing on their technical merits as songwriters - not their personalities. referring someone by their surname denotes formality and seriousness. Nobody talks about "Charlie's theory of evolution", or "Issac's laws of motion" do they?
So yeah - calling jodie whittaker "jodie" wrt to her ability as an actor (or - on a related note calling her an "actress" ) could definitely seem patronising and diminutive - isn't that obvious?


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The Fornicator - What do solidarity, respect and honesty say about using terms like “Feminism 101”.
> 
> If you were trying to have a discussion in good faith it might be different. But you aren’t.


You seem to be a gentleman of a certain age so it's perhaps understandable you're keen to speak on behalf of the lady, and to read my mind, and to seemingly have been confused in your choice of thread titles.

Some may think of that as an exertion of white, male privilege, others that you're a dick.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 13, 2018)

Gromit said:


> I tend to get referred to by my last name or a nickname stemming from my last name.



Or more commonly as just 'fuck off Gromit'.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> *ginger_syn*, I don't know who you are but may the force be with you.
> 
> I was talking to this poster about several posts like this, and why the title of the thread seems exempt from Feminism 101:
> 
> ...


I'm also embarrassed to say that I didn't notice the full thread title untill it was mentioned a couple of page's ago, I stopped reading after series 11.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 13, 2018)

It wasn't mentioned until spanglechick spoke about her Jane Austen experience at school, and how feminism 101 put her right.

We are all greatly in her debt.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

Stop stirring its getting on my wick


----------



## Santino (Oct 13, 2018)

Gromit said:


> I tend to get referred to by my last name or a nickname stemming from my last name.
> 
> Ooh so peeps respect me more than my colleague with the same first name who gets referred to by that. Good to know


Fuck off


----------



## Santino (Oct 13, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> It wasn't mentioned until spanglechick spoke about her Jane Austen experience at school, and how feminism 101 put her right.
> 
> We are all greatly in her debt.


We are in her debt for raising a relatively minor but telling aspect of ingrained attitudes that most of us had not noticed. You prick.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 13, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> It wasn't mentioned until spanglechick spoke about her Jane Austen experience at school, and how feminism 101 put her right.
> 
> We are all greatly in her debt.


Fuck off gromit


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 13, 2018)

Oh.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 13, 2018)

This is some returner isn't it.

eta: not sure it matters


----------



## AverageJoe (Oct 13, 2018)

I just wanted to read about how the new Dr Who is going


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2018)

AverageJoe said:


> I just wanted to read about how the new Dr Who is going


First episode was really good. I’m feeling positive for the series.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2018)

AverageJoe said:


> I just wanted to read about how the new Dr Who is going


Its going well so far, and I'm more exited about the series than I thought I would be.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 14, 2018)

So, finally got to watch episode 1 on iPlayer. Sunday night is a bit of a rubbish timeslot for me so I have to watch it a week behind.

First impressions:

Did anyone else watch the BBC 3 Peter Capaldi spin off Class? It wasn't great tbh (and I only lasted two episodes), but that's what this episode reminded me of, low production values like you're watching a tired episode of Casualty.

The doctor seems to be doing an impression of Matt Smith's* doctor for most of the episode. I quite liked Grace and Yaz.

The big bad is a crap predator knock-off and the hunt is bollocks. Why are all the teeth human?

At least they're not in fucking Cardiff and there's some proper fucking northern accents.

I was more than a bit bored tbh.

* sorry, just Smith's.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 14, 2018)

Just going to leave this here for tomorrow, in case I forget. 
French and Saunders.
Ant and Dec.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 14, 2018)

Are they going to be guest starring?


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 14, 2018)

The new Doctor... doing the stunts .....



Bit disappointed the Doctor isn't wearing Doc Martens  and that the costume dept chose Steve Madden boots that haven't the best reviews in terms of longevity....soles cracking within 3 months....

Looking forward to the next episode. I like the new Dr.


----------



## May Kasahara (Oct 14, 2018)

Watched it last night and loved it, the sound design was fantastic and the whole mood worked for me. New Doctor = thumbs up.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 14, 2018)

8ball said:


> There are two Peters.
> 
> Or are there?


Only one.








DotCommunist said:


> I thought we'd all agreed to call chibnal chin balls


Yes, but IRL no ones caught on yet and seem to think I'm refering to an obscure 70's henchman. Again.


Saul Goodman said:


> Just going to leave this here for tomorrow, in case I forget.
> French and Saunders.
> Ant and Dec.


Donelly and Mcpartlin just rolls off the tongue. They were initially refered to by the names their Byker Grove characters went by. Their image would of changed had they switched to surnames. 

Despite being refered to as the act French and Saunders possibly a name they came up with themselves they seem to be refered to by their full names individually. Obviously far more common names than Capaldi but the same seems to be true of Lumley. Doesn't even feel right reading it to me.

Perhaps character names and performer names have different conventions.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 14, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> You seem to be a gentleman of a certain age so it's perhaps understandable you're keen to speak on behalf of the lady, and to read my mind, and to seemingly have been confused in your choice of thread titles.
> 
> Some may think of that as an exertion of white, male privilege, others that you're a dick.



Are you accusing him of white knighting?

Nobody speaks to our danny like that


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 14, 2018)

Did the first one, like it, new dr passed the test for me. Kids round 'ere are growing out of it so its younger appeal is going to slow my following if they stop watching.


----------



## lazythursday (Oct 14, 2018)

It seems a fundamental part of adolescence to 'grow out' of Doctor Who, yet an equally a fundamental part of becoming a decent rounded adult to start watching it again.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2018)

Broadcast time is 18:55 today.  A bit later than last week.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2018)

the trailer for tonights (at the end of last sundays ep) was odd, introducing the actors in that way with names on screen etc. Also, my brain says its set in india as well as the past this week. I have not read any radio times etc tho.


----------



## strung out (Oct 14, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> the trailer for tonights (at the end of last sundays ep) was odd, introducing the actors in that way with names on screen etc. Also, my brain says its set in india as well as the past this week. I have not read any radio times etc tho.


Wasn't that trailer introducing all the actors for the rest of the series?


----------



## D'wards (Oct 14, 2018)

strung out said:


> Wasn't that trailer introducing all the actors for the rest of the series?


I thought so


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2018)

ahhhhh right


----------



## quiet guy (Oct 14, 2018)

No interruptions now.


----------



## danski (Oct 14, 2018)

Blimey, is the acting meant to be so bad?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 14, 2018)

So the Tardis now has a biscuit dispenser? A bold choice, but I think I'm OK with it.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 14, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> So the Tardis now has a biscuit dispenser? A bold choice, but I think I'm OK with it.



I definitely approve of this..


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2018)

Loved the Tardis. Loved the title visuals. I liked rather than loved the title music. The story itself dragged a bit. But it _looked_ great.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Loved the Tardis. Loved the title visuals. I liked rather than loved the title music. The story itself dragged a bit. But it _looked_ great.



Agree with this. The story wasn't particularly interesting, but there was a bit of intriguing foreshadowing. Next episode looks very interesting - I wonder who's written it?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 14, 2018)

Ha



Considering changing my username to Distant Vworp.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 14, 2018)

danski said:


> Blimey, is the acting meant to be so bad?


I don't think it's supposed to be so bad, and it appears a lot of people disagree with you, so maybe you just don't know what good acting is?


----------



## danski (Oct 14, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I don't think it's supposed to be so bad, and it appears a lot of people disagree with you, so maybe you just don't know what good acting is?


Possibly. Just all seemed a bit clunky to me.


----------



## D'wards (Oct 14, 2018)

danski said:


> Possibly. Just all seemed a bit clunky to me.


I agree with Bradley- odd cos he's been acting years.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2018)

more later, but thats sean dooley of misfits:


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 14, 2018)

Love the hexagon-honey-hive echoes in the new tardis.  And the biscuit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2018)

I'm also calling straight up pitch black rip off. Ship crash, three suns then the planet full of night monsters. dooley makes for a sort ofvin diesel figure, sort of.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 14, 2018)

Loved that episode, so glad I avoided the tardis photo's she looked beautiful, not sure about the opening credits, I'll have to watch a few times before I get used to it  overall a good episode but will comment more later after a rewatch.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2018)

I note there was Mysterious Plot point when Doc spoke to the evil beach towels  And I think the facetooth aliens will be back as well. 

Yes the tardis does look good


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 14, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> And I think the facetooth aliens will be back as well.



In the first episode Tim Shaw mentioned that the victims were held in stasis - presumably missing teeth - rather than killed. No way that The Doctor is going to leave that alone.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> In the first episode Tim Shaw mentioned that the victims were held in stasis - presumably missing teeth - rather than killed. No way that The Doctor is going to leave that alone.


and the woman alien spoke of how they'd been 'cleansing' her world, thats what made me think there will be a reckoning of some sort. The seasons big bad.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 14, 2018)

Quick-fire redemption arc for no-mates Sean Dooley.

Dr Who for the many, not the few. Plus, Better in Than Out. 

Yet to see a teenage girl in tight hot pants - can this really be Dr Who?!


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 14, 2018)

Plus that scene with 6 people standing on a dune looking at a tent and Dr asking 'what is it?'
Correct answer was: 'Is it Bake Off?'
No idea these people.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 14, 2018)

Can anyone think of a reason why the focus of this episode wasn't on The Doctor? Isn't this supposed to be Doctor Who? Or is it now a miscellany of mediocre actors who, rather unfortunately, are better actors than The Doctor, whose only acting skill seems to be moving her eyebrows and trying too hard to be a conglomeration of previous Doctors?
Leaving aside the fact that Jodie Whittaker is a really bad Doctor, it seems the show has now been written for a much, much younger audience.
They've ruined it. The writing is crap and the acting is worse. 
They could have quite easily chosen River Song or Missy to play The Doctor, but instead they chose someone who isn't even capable of injecting her own personality into The Doctor. Instead, she (badly) attempts to emulate previous doctors.
It's a travesty. Or, as Doctor Donna might say, It's a fucking liberty!


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 14, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> .. it seems the show has now been written for a much, much younger audience. They've ruined it.


This is the best satire on the internet tonight.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 14, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> This is the best satire on the internet tonight.


Doctor Who always appealed to a broad audience, from children to adults. Now, ,it appears, it is being written solely for children.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 14, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Doctor Who always appealed to a broad audience, from children to adults. Now, ,it appears, it is being written solely for children.


You mean, except for the adults on this thread enjoying it?


----------



## Santino (Oct 15, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> Plus that scene with 6 people standing on a dune looking at a tent and Dr asking 'what is it?'
> Correct answer was: 'Is it Bake Off?'
> No idea these people.


Why are you so dull?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 15, 2018)

not great. bit lightweight. acting a bit clunky. the sniper bots were conspicuously bad shots. still - not annoying and liking the smaller scale stories with the mumbo jumbo dialed down.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 15, 2018)

Every new doctor takes a while to get used to. I really didn't like Capaldi for the first few episodes but I got there in the end.

I think she's going to be a great Dr. And she should be an amalgamation of all previous Doctors. The Doctor says it herself that after transferring she is still trying to get used to who she now is...all the previous characters are bound to influence the Dr.. They are part of her aren't they? So her character will grow and develop over time.
I think...


----------



## tommers (Oct 15, 2018)

"Sniperbot" was a misnomer.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 15, 2018)

Doctor Who viewers call for Jodie Whittaker to be REPLACED just two episodes in

This"backlash" from "fans" is getting right boring and I haven't even seen the show.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 15, 2018)

You can always pick holes in it, like WTF were they doing leaving the hatch open, so the sniper bots knew where they had gone & could easily follow? Kaka Tim mentioned about the sniper bots being crap at their one job - to kill, but that was easily brushed over, by the comment that they were predicting their path, so just zig-zag to stay alive.

But, that's Dr Who, it's always been a bit of nonsensical escapism. I agree some of the acting was not great, but passable IMO, story not as good as last weeks, but next week's is looking more promising.

Overall, I personally enjoyed it, I would rate it 7/10, compared to 9/10 last week. 

I also liked the new opening, the new Tardis, including the biscuit dispenser - nice quirky touch.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 15, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Doctor Who viewers call for Jodie Whittaker to be REPLACED just two episodes in
> 
> This"backlash" from "fans" is getting right boring and I haven't even seen the show.


I don't need to read that to know that what it amounts to is "our reporter went searching on Twitter for twats.  And found some".

This isn't news or journalism, is it?  And it in no way measures the audience who actually enjoyed the show.  

Which, by the way, is a _family_ show, not a children's show.  I grew up watching it, grew away from it in the 80s, when I was at peak going out age, and came back to it when I had a family myself. Now that my family has left home, I'm still watching it, and my daughters message me with their reviews when they've seen it.  It's something we enjoy together.

For me, the new Doctor has already asserted herself as The Doctor; I love the wit she brings, and a more enthusiastic personality than the world-weary one out of which she regenerated; the last episode was a indeed dip from the initial episode, but only slightly, and had much going for it nonetheless, and I very much welcome the return to actual stories; and only acting I'd say could in any way be criticised was actually from the most established actor, Art Malik, who looked like he was restraining an urge to chew the tent flaps, but again that, it's exactly what I want from a famous guest actor on Doctor Who: their job is to play a small role in a way that stands out from the other minor characters, and if a baddie, camp it up a bit.  It's from a long tradition of melodrama going back through the dawn of television, to matinee film and, beyond, to popular theatre.  It's precisely those continuities with entertainment traditions that add to Dr Who's appeal. 

If those things aren't your cup of tea, then, no, Dr Who won't be for you.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 15, 2018)

Shoddy acting is part if the fun of Doctor Who. 

I do worry that we may have too many companions and that they risk being a bit two dimensional as a result. It took them half a season to come up with a personality for Clara and she was the sole foil for an already established doctor. Also I can't place Ryan's accent and it's bugging me, seems like it might be a London accent trying to do Sheffield with zero coaching.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Oct 15, 2018)

I liked the cinematography. 

It was a great lesson in complimentary colours and colour theory. 

Was enjoying the lighting too much to know what actually happened. Some of great shots though.


----------



## T & P (Oct 15, 2018)

I'm not well versed in the early series of Doctor Who. Had the Doctor previously shown the Spock-esque paralysing finger move we saw yesterday?


----------



## lazythursday (Oct 15, 2018)

T & P said:


> I'm not well versed in the early series of Doctor Who. Had the Doctor previously shown the Spock-esque paralysing finger move we saw yesterday?


The third doctor also did Venusian aikido (or however you spell it) but I don't think the paralysing finger was a move he ever demonstrated.


----------



## D'wards (Oct 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Shoddy acting is part if the fun of Doctor Who.
> 
> I do worry that we may have too many companions and that they risk being a bit two dimensional as a result. It took them half a season to come up with a personality for Clara and she was the sole foil for an already established doctor. Also I can't place Ryan's accent and it's bugging me, seems like it might be a London accent trying to do Sheffield with zero coaching.


Ryan's accent does bounce about a bit - I noticed too


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 15, 2018)

venuisan paralysing finger move in full effect  - 0.55 onwards.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 15, 2018)

Pertwee was always having a ruck. Even had a swordfight with delgado (I don't need to tell you who won)


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 15, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> You mean, except for the adults on this thread enjoying it?


Just because something is written solely for children, doesn't mean some adults won't enjoy it.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 15, 2018)




----------



## kittyP (Oct 15, 2018)

Just watched last nights episode and fucking loved it  
I liked the first one but got much more into it this time. 
I had a little cry at the end coz (I know it is silly, I don't bloody know her) I feel weirdly really proud of Whittaker  

I think she is already capturing what The Dr means to me (post reboot anyway). 
Another plane kinda intelligent whilst being very empathic that sometimes comes out in odd ways. 
Funny and quirky but also with a strong undertone of wistful sadness.   
Just right


----------



## Balbi (Oct 15, 2018)

treefrog is actually getting into Doctor Who, and her reasoning "it's actually fun, not some convoluted impossible girl bollocks" is impeccable.


----------



## moonsi til (Oct 15, 2018)

I have never been into Dr Who, last week it came on as I was lounging on sofa, previously I would have turned it off but the hype got to me so I watched it. Tonight I watched it on catch up by choice.


----------



## Helen Back (Oct 17, 2018)

Just watched it. So glad they got the "redecorated" line in. I was waiting for the follow-up line and wasn't disappointed!


----------



## Helen Back (Oct 17, 2018)

Plus guest appearance by The Prometheus School Of Running Away.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 18, 2018)

Helen Back said:


> Plus guest appearance by The Prometheus School Of Running Away.


Yes I noticed that. My daughter had a good reason for it at the time, but I forget.


----------



## Reno (Oct 18, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Can anyone think of a reason why the focus of this episode wasn't on The Doctor? Isn't this supposed to be Doctor Who?



The best Doctor Who episode I’ve ever seen, barely features the Doctor at all:


----------



## dessiato (Oct 18, 2018)

Finally got round to watching E1. Pleasantly surprised. I might have to watch more now.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 18, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yes I noticed that. My daughter had a good reason for it at the time, but I forget.


They were running through something almost like a trench with steep sides. Still a better chance than running straight. I thought it was a little contrived that the ship would be about to hit them on a planet that side. The trench may have been deliberately put there for landing though giving the proximity to the hologram.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 18, 2018)

Reno said:


> The best Doctor Who episode I’ve ever seen, barely features the Doctor at all:



And a lot of what you do see is repeated to give him more screen time.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 18, 2018)

So did a rewatch with eldest granddaughter yesterday and she enjoyed it a lot, she said it was crazy and much more like dr who,
She liked the tardis and thought it looked really big but would like to see them travelling in her.
I still really liked it, it was beautifully framed, it  had a solid quest plot,  and very  good guest stars. 
I enjoyed the incidental music a lot more on this episode it called to mind  echo's of firefly at one point towards the end of the episode, 
it also worked very well watching straight after the first episode and I stll love the new tardis.

I do like being a happy Who fan


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> They were running through something almost like a trench with steep sides. Still a better chance than running straight. I thought it was a little contrived that the ship would be about to hit them on a planet that side. The trench may have been deliberately put there for landing though giving the proximity to the hologram.



Presumably both ships were headed for the same landing site.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 18, 2018)

Reno said:


> The best Doctor Who episode I’ve ever seen, barely features the Doctor at all:



Which would have been much better than being subjected to this talentless Dr. Wannabe!


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 19, 2018)

Thing is jodie Whittaker is the doctor so suck it up and wait for the next one if you dont like it because you are not doing yourself any favours spouting bollocks like that
Just coming across as a tiny bit tragic.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 19, 2018)




----------



## belboid (Oct 19, 2018)

Finally caught up with the opening two last night. Always a problem when summat's set locally, I spend half the time checking they've got the locations, and distance between them, right, rather than watching the show. They didn't do _too _badly there, assuming Yas has one hell of a speedy cop car. Granny is obviously an alien we will see again later - there can be no other excuse for her mispronouncing Hathersage, it is not something anyone from Sheffield would _ever _do. 

13 made a good impression. I, for one, enjoyed her saying 'could av' - not 'could of' - it's what we say. The plots were blatant rips off other sci-fi, but what the hell. 

A good start.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2018)

I hope next week they knock off Event Horizon with sam niel as the guest star


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 19, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


>


See Dr who is fun for us all


----------



## KeeperofDragons (Oct 19, 2018)

Loved the 2nd episode, but I do love a quest


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 21, 2018)

Are you sitting comfortably? 

Then let it begin...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 21, 2018)

WOW, WOW, and WOW again, that was both brilliant & powerful, fucking loved it!


----------



## snadge (Oct 21, 2018)

Really like Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor, fine choice, also the writing has improved drastically.


----------



## Santino (Oct 21, 2018)

In parts that was cheap and manipulative but I was unexpectedly moved by it.

I liked how the bad guy was an alt-right twat.


----------



## D'wards (Oct 21, 2018)

I thought it would have made a better ending if Bradley was the only white man standing at the end, and he would have been forced to demand Rosa move, fighting every urge in his body.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 21, 2018)

That could have been awful. It was actually quite good. A little mawkish in places, but also suprisingly cutting for BBC teatime entertainment. A couple of genuinely devastating moments in there, particularly when the gang realise that they have to be bystanders, that that is the role history demands of them. 

Excellent direction and photography again too.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 21, 2018)




----------



## Cloo (Oct 21, 2018)

I was worried whether they'd be able to get the tone right with this, but think it was pretty spot on. They were evidently at pains to ensure Parks was shown as an activist, that none of this was Doctor and crew 'inspiring' her or doing anything for her (to the point of the Doctor saying they mustn't actually help her) 

And Whittaker settling nicely into the role - giving her this small 'team' of companions gives this Doctor an interesting new dynamic that I hope will be built on.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 21, 2018)

perfect fit for black history month


----------



## Santino (Oct 21, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> perfect fit for black history month


When is Dalek History Month?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2018)

Santino said:


> When is Dalek History Month?


Starts in about 1000 rels
*awards self 50 nerd points*


----------



## Wilf (Oct 22, 2018)

Cloo said:


> I was worried whether they'd be able to get the tone right with this, but think it was pretty spot on. They were evidently at pains to ensure Parks was shown as an activist, that none of this was Doctor and crew 'inspiring' her or doing anything for her (to the point of the Doctor saying they mustn't actually help her)
> 
> And Whittaker settling nicely into the role - giving her this small 'team' of companions gives this Doctor an interesting new dynamic that I hope will be built on.


These 3 episodes have allowed her to be fairly jaunty, it will be interesting to see what she's like when she has an unenviable choice to make/has to allow someone to die. Expect she'll be very good - she certainly did 'bleak' in Broadchurch.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 22, 2018)

Cloo said:


> I was worried whether they'd be able to get the tone right with this, but think it was pretty spot on. They were evidently at pains to ensure Parks was shown as an activist, that none of this was Doctor and crew 'inspiring' her or doing anything for her (to the point of the Doctor saying they mustn't actually help her)
> 
> And Whittaker settling nicely into the role - giving her this small 'team' of companions gives this Doctor an interesting new dynamic that I hope will be built on.



Totally agree, there were so many ways it could have failed - it could have fallen back on the myth that Rosa Parks was just too tired to give up her seat, or at the other extreme, it could have had the doctor changing history by being the influence for her actions, but instead the team were basically bystanders & observers - protecting history, rather than changing it.

The Rosa Parks story is to important to be messed about with, and the writers clearly understood that, I am chuffed that millions of kids (& indeed adults) will now be more aware of her story, and the importance it played in changing so much.

Ironic it was shown on the day that the news broke about that bloke verbally abusing a black woman on a Ryanair flight, demonstrating the world still has a way to go yet. 

Racist Ryanair passenger who called woman 'ugly black b*****d' could get away with it | Metro News



Spoiler: Video of man using racist & abusive language


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 22, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Totally agree, there were so many ways it could have failed - it could have fallen back on the myth that Rosa Parks was just too tired to give up her seat, or at the other extreme, it could have had the doctor changing history by being the influence for her actions, but instead the team were basically bystanders & observers - protecting history, rather than changing it.
> 
> The Rosa Parks story is to important to be messed about with, and the writers clearly understood that, I am chuffed that millions of kids (& indeed adults) will now be more aware of her story, and the importance it played in changing so much.
> 
> ...




So the guy wasn't removed from the flight because they were due to take off. Oddly enough I was on a Ryanair flight last year where they did abort takeoff, pretty much at the last moment, because two passengers objected to sharing the plane with some people in muslim clothing. We were all stuck on the tarmac for another two hours while all the luggage was removed from the hold to allow them to get their bags, the plane refuelled and a new ATC window found. So I guess Ryanair will ground a flight for the sake of racist arseholes, but only if the arseholes want it grounded.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 22, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> So the guy wasn't removed from the flight because they were due to take off. Oddly enough I was on a Ryanair flight last year where they did abort takeoff, pretty much at the last moment, because two passengers objected to sharing the plane with some people in muslim clothing. We were all stuck on the tarmac for another two hours while all the luggage was removed from the hold to allow them to get their bags, the plane refuelled and a new ATC window found. So I guess Ryanair will ground a flight for the sake of racist arseholes, but only if the arseholes want it grounded.



Blimey! 

To avoid derailing this one, I've started a thread on it here: Ryanair f**ks up again - by not kicking off a racially abusive passenger...


----------



## Sprocket. (Oct 22, 2018)

Santino said:


> I liked how the bad guy was an alt-right twat.



In another episode he could come back in time and vote leave.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 22, 2018)

It was a good episode for all the reasons already said.  Well done the DW team.

Except for the premise, which was stupid.  The civil rights movement would still have happened on approximately the same timescale and in pretty much the same way if Rosa Parks hadn’t taken that one bus.  At the most straightforward level, maybe she would have refused to stand a week later instead.  At a rather more fundamental level, however, this just happened to be (one of) the spark(s) applied to a massive powder keg of social pressure and momentum.  If this spark hadn’t happened, another one would instead.  The alt-right nobjockey might as well have tried to stop all avalanches happening on Mont Blanc for all time by finding one offending pebble that had caused one of them.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 22, 2018)

kabbes said:


> It was a good episode for all the reasons already said.  Well done the DW team.
> 
> Except for the premise, which was stupid.  The civil rights movement would still have happened on approximately the same timescale and in pretty much the same way if Rosa Parks hadn’t taken that one bus.  At the most straightforward level, maybe she would have refused to stand a week later instead.  At a rather more fundamental level, however, this just happened to be (one of) the spark(s) applied to a massive powder keg of social pressure and momentum.  If this spark hadn’t happened, another one would instead.  The alt-right nobjockey might as well have tried to stop all avalanches happening on Mont Blanc for all time by finding one offending pebble that had caused one of them.



Racists are famously really clever as well.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 22, 2018)

kabbes said:


> It was a good episode for all the reasons already said.  Well done the DW team.
> 
> Except for the premise, which was stupid.  The civil rights movement would still have happened on approximately the same timescale and in pretty much the same way if Rosa Parks hadn’t taken that one bus.  At the most straightforward level, maybe she would have refused to stand a week later instead.  At a rather more fundamental level, however, this just happened to be (one of) the spark(s) applied to a massive powder keg of social pressure and momentum.  If this spark hadn’t happened, another one would instead.  The alt-right nobjockey might as well have tried to stop all avalanches happening on Mont Blanc for all time by finding one offending pebble that had caused one of them.



Fuck off with your premise logic.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 22, 2018)

It occurs to me that the slap to Ryan's face was a rare case of genuine violence against a central character in Doctor Who. You get lots of zappy laser gun fights and dying redshirts, but nothing that feels real in the way that one moment did. The whole episode had more of a sense of peril to it than the ones with whole legions of cybermen or whatever. But human villains are always the most frightening aren't they?


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 22, 2018)

Enjoyed the episode more than I thought I would because I'm not a fan of pure historicals but it had just enough sci-fi to keep me happy, I didn't find it preachy at all and i liked the way they kept the tardis crew on the edges of the story just making sure it happened rather than causing it to happen. 
As for krasko he was a bit 2 dimensional but I feel he has a deeper agenda than stopping rosa parks getting arrested at that time (this is just a vague theory at this point, his interactions with the doctor and ryan sort of indicate this to me, but I could still be in moffat mode), I will of course be rewatching so might come back to that but it was a good watch and my only criticism is that the song on the end was to loud for me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2018)

I liked it, my one moan was that MLK voice impression wasn't as good as the MLK vocal in Selma. But it was two feckin lines so y'know. Allow it.

Someone mentioned in the thread that the baddie was alt right. He certainly has the hair lol.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 22, 2018)

Best historical, don't mess with the timeline thing I've seen was actually one of the original Star Trek series. With, of all people, Joan Collins.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 22, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Best historical, don't mess with the timeline thing I've seen was actually one of the original Star Trek series. With, of all people, Joan Collins.



_The City on the Edge of Forever _is, imo, the best TOS episode.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 22, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> _The City on the Edge of Forever _is, imo, the best TOS episode.


That's the one! Ta.

In fact it was a 2 parter iirc.


----------



## belboid (Oct 22, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> _The City on the Edge of Forever _is, imo, the best TOS episode.


written by Harlan Ellison, of course


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 22, 2018)

belboid said:


> written by Harlan Ellison, of course



Also the cause of Ellison and Rodenberry not speaking to each other for years...


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 27, 2018)

Did a rewatch tonight with grandson and youngest granddaughter, grandson really enjoyed it and said he learned a lot,  he is also a big fan of the new theme tune and opening credits. Youngest likes the new doctor but i think tbe nuances of the subject passed her by she's 5 and is not a big fan of bus drivers anyway but liked the episode overall, she does not seem keen on the next episode.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 27, 2018)

Wilf said:


> That's the one! Ta.
> 
> In fact it was a 2 parter iirc.



The City on the edge of forever is just a single episode. The only two parter in TOS is The Menagerie.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 28, 2018)

Daily Mail doesn't like it, so I'm looking fwd to it even more

Exterminate! Fans' backlash over Doctor Who's latest transformation- into TV's most PC show | Daily Mail Online


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 28, 2018)

The Daily Mail can go fuck themselves.

Then fuck themselves again.


----------



## FiFi (Oct 28, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Daily Mail doesn't like it, so I'm looking fwd to it even more
> 
> Exterminate! Fans' backlash over Doctor Who's latest transformation- into TV's most PC show | Daily Mail Online


I don't normally read the Daily Mail, but that is quite poorly written. It apears to be nothing  more than a superficial synopsis of the epiodes with a few badly cited criticisims thrown in.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 28, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Daily Mail doesn't like it, so I'm looking fwd to it even more
> 
> Exterminate! Fans' backlash over Doctor Who's latest transformation- into TV's most PC show | Daily Mail Online


What does it say, as I  do not want to pollute my phone with daily mail cookies.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 28, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> What does it say, as I  do not want to pollute my phone with daily mail cookies.



This kind of thing:

_What was once a determinedly far-fetched fantasy drama populated by Daleks and Cybermen has become a platform for social justice issues, complete with a racially diverse cast, they say.

One of her three companions, Ryan Sinclair – played by black actor Tosin Cole – is a dyspraxia sufferer, while even the token white middle-aged male, Graham (Bradley Walsh), is a cancer survivor. Her other companion is Anglo-Asian police officer Yasmin Khan (Mandip Gill).

One fan wrote: ‘There should be a clever story line, not a rehash of history. There’s also an underlying feeling the focus has been forcing inclusiveness by having such obviously diverse characters.’

Another said: ‘Please keep the PC stuff for documentaries and serious drama and let the Doctor help us escape to a fantasy world.’

To the delight of risk-adverse snowflakes everywhere, the Doctor is a firm believer in the maxim, ‘it’s not the winning that counts, it’s the taking part’. 

In a bid to prove it really is the most inclusive show on television, Doctor Who has even found room for... a middle-aged white man. _


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 28, 2018)

Token white people now. Terrific stuff


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 28, 2018)

Wow, a collection of petulance,
Thank for the summary


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 28, 2018)

Ire. 

*Jodie Whittaker stars in her debut series as the Doctor but the show attracted ire *
*One of her companions is a dyspraxia sufferer while one is Anglo-Asian Mrs Khan*


----------



## belboid (Oct 28, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> *Anglo-Asian Mrs Khan*


Mrs???


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 28, 2018)

belboid said:


> Mrs???


Sorry to break the news mate.


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 28, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> This kind of thing:
> 
> _What was once a determinedly far-fetched fantasy drama populated by Daleks and Cybermen has become a platform for social justice issues, complete with a racially diverse cast, they say.
> 
> ...



And what's the relevance of Rosa Parks to people in this country? So called "Dr" Who should have been facilitating British freedom -  witnessing the birth of UKIP [/outraged of Didcot]


----------



## Sprocket. (Oct 28, 2018)




----------



## QueenOfGoths (Oct 28, 2018)

Just watched it and thought it was excellent.

Great performances and storyline. The actress who played Rosa Parks was very good. 

And I like Bradley Walsh!!


----------



## Epona (Oct 28, 2018)

Does anyone else suffer from a bit of a weird flashback thing when they channel hop after Doctor Who and Bradley is on ITV at the same time doing The Chase?


----------



## D'wards (Oct 28, 2018)

Well that's the Trump episode. 

Was pretty good I thought, although Bradley's acting seemed a bit wooden.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 28, 2018)

That was a lot of fun, decent scary-yet-ultimately-sympathetic spiders, and the character beats were well done. I'm glad Yaz got something more substantial to do, although she clearly forgot she was a police officer when Kevin's handgun appeared...


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Oct 28, 2018)

Turned this on about half way through. Looked like proper old skool hiding behind the sofa giant spiders with a fair bit of environmental and anti-Americanism. Which is no bad thing!


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 28, 2018)

That definitely had a Classic Who vibe in many ways. Which is no bad thing.


----------



## strung out (Oct 28, 2018)

I was hoping that the Doctor would send them back in time to Metebelis III at the end.


----------



## Sprocket. (Oct 28, 2018)

I remember when Park Hill flats in Sheffield was scarier than any spiders.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 28, 2018)

bradley gets line of the episode for when they pump the grime out 'can you believe they're moving toward the music?'


----------



## A380 (Oct 28, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Best historical, don't mess with the timeline thing I've seen was actually one of the original Star Trek series. With, of all people, Joan Collins.



Joan Collins was also in a underrated and very early ( one of the first on film?) alternate history film “Quest for Love” - no Second World War, nuclear physics not starting till the 60s. It’s quite interesting  and pretty good, plus, Joan Collins!


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 29, 2018)

I loved that episode it was mostly a charming adventure, loved ryan doing shadow puppets in the backround at the University,   it had a good solid cast, the scenes with graham going home were a punch in the chest they had it spot on for me and it was a bit hard to watch(got a bit of a flashback) grief can be a bit of a bugger even after nine years.
I'll have to do a couple of rewatches to get a more objective view of the episode, also the theme properly clicked with me today and its very good. 
On a side note I watched with my son who for the last three episodes has been sitting on cushions close to the tele to watch as he says its too small to watch from the settee but for this episode decided it was better to stay watching from there, hes not fond of spiders  he's in his thirties .


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 29, 2018)

Yeah, I enjoyed that too.

Only problem, whilst they herded-up the spiders inside the hotel, what about the ones that had already gone out into the city?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 29, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yeah, I enjoyed that too.
> 
> Only problem, whilst they herded-up the spiders inside the hotel, what about the ones that had already gone out into the city?


The grime was _that_ good.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 29, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The grime was _that_ good.



I reckon they are still out there. 

(((people of Sheffield)))


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 29, 2018)

They’ll be fine. Conkers. Spiders hate conkers.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 29, 2018)

Was fun and scary and not annoying. which doesn't sound amazing - but 90% of rebooted dr who has failed to achieve all three. Im liking whittaker's interpretation of  dr who more and more each week. 

(although i was very much in team yank bloke when he was arguing to just kill the 8 legged freaky  motherfuckers in the face tout suite)


----------



## Balbi (Oct 29, 2018)

Spiiiiiiiiiiders 

Loved Shobna Gulati as Yaz's Mum 

The scenes with Graham at home were so well put together, credit to both actors involved there.

Ryan's reaction to Robertson's glee at having weapons shows he learned quickly from the Doctor about guns.


----------



## Helen Back (Oct 29, 2018)

Balbi said:


> Loved Shobna Gulati as Yaz's Mum



"Najia!"


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 30, 2018)

Forgot to mention spangly time vortex which I liked, it was unexpected and a nice surprise.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 30, 2018)

I liked the episode a lot but again the fridge logic of it rather takes the gloss off.  Normal spiders live a number of years anyway so just how long was that massive one supposed to have survived to get to that size?  How long has this lab been doing its thing?  And how come the babies had already reached the size of small dogs?  If they’d left it as “toxic waste = bleh” it would have been better, but they gave us instead this whole thing about spiders growing their whole life and having been genetically modified to live longer as the explanation of the size, and it doesn’t work.

So far, I feel that Chinballs is good on general plotting and story beats but bad on internal logic or convincing explanations.


----------



## Epona (Oct 30, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I liked the episode a lot but again the fridge logic of it rather takes the gloss off.  Normal spiders live a number of years anyway so just how long was that massive one supposed to have survived to get to that size?  How long has this lab been doing its thing?  And how come the babies had already reached the size of small dogs?  If they’d left it as “toxic waste = bleh” it would have been better, but they gave us instead this whole thing about spiders growing their whole life and having been genetically modified to live longer as the explanation of the size, and it doesn’t work.
> 
> So far, I feel that Chinballs is good on general plotting and story beats but bad on internal logic or convincing explanations.



My main issue was that spiders respiratory systems do not support a large body mass, that is an immutable fact given oxygen concentration in the air on this planet.

But if I want immuntable facts I will watch a nature documentary, not Doctor Who


----------



## Sprocket. (Oct 30, 2018)

It’s a shame Kip Thorne isn’t a producer and scientific advisor on Who.
It would be much more science factual as well as educational.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 30, 2018)

Things I would like soon:

More about what the evil towels said
Find out what gives with the toothface warrior species cliche. In Doctor Who fashion I hope there is a chance for the toothfaces to do the right thing. I mean they probably won't but everyone deserves a fair chance. Its doctor who for fucks sake.

wheres me fascist pepperpots. 


Aslo, did I blink and miss it or did american business wanker just get away with being a dick, I didn't notice any commupance for him not even after he shot the spider and did thet 'tghats how the world works yuo assholes' bit, which deffo warranted death.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 30, 2018)

Epona said:


> My main issue was that spiders respiratory systems do not support a large body mass, that is an immutable fact given oxygen concentration in the air on this planet.
> 
> But if I want immuntable facts I will watch a nature documentary, not Doctor Who



Beyond a certain size chitin exoskeletons don't work either, ditto surface adhesion forces that allow spiders to walk on ceilings. Was glad they at least mentioned breathing though. Spiders have no lungs to increase surface area for gas exchange, because they're small and so don't need them.

It's all about the different relative scaling of surface area and body mass, and the non-negotiable, universal size of atoms and stuff.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 30, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Aslo, did I blink and miss it or did american business wanker just get away with being a dick, I didn't notice any commupance for him not even after he shot the spider and did thet 'tghats how the world works yuo assholes' bit, which deffo warranted death.



To be fair I didn't see why letting mama spider slowly suffocate was kinder than shooting her.

Still, a single killing shot with a handgun would be unlikely. At that size the spider would probably have had enough thickness of exoskeleton to stop a low-velocity bullet. Also spiders do not have centralised organs in the same way mammals do, nor anything we'd recognise as a circulatory system, so there's not really a single critical point you could hit to kill it, even if you were an expert spider-killing marksman and not just some corporate boob.

Still, if Yaz has totally ignored massive crimes committed by corporate entities, that just proves she's a true copper.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 30, 2018)

very reminiscent of pertwee era story _The Green Death_ - where toxic waste was dumped down a coal mine resulting in giant maggots who spread a deadly infection.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 30, 2018)

No aliens at all in that episode. When there's science gone bad type stories it's usually because the boss is getting tips from some extraterrestrial unit on the sly.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 30, 2018)

Both my daughter and I did not enjoy that at all. Boring.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 30, 2018)

I suspect that Yank will be back at some point and Whittaker will win.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 30, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> wheres me fascist pepperpots.



I believe Chibnall has said there will be no familiar villains this season. Which is fine by me because overexposure to the Daleks, Cybermen et al undermines their dramatic efficiency. IMHO, naturally.

Apart from a brief blink and you miss cameo in _Carnival of Monsters_, the Cybermen didn't appear in Pertwee's run.

Then you got them in 1975's _Revenge of the Cybermen_ and then 7 whole years later in _Earthshock_.

 And it was 4 years between _Genesis of the Daleks_ til their next appearance in _Destiny of the Daleks_.


----------



## rekil (Oct 30, 2018)

Whittaker herding them all into a room, to do what exactly, was a little bit nazi tbh. If I was a freak spider I'd take a bullet no probs.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 30, 2018)

dammit, radio times confirms so its true.


----------



## Santino (Oct 30, 2018)

Hasn't the BBC got to show the Daleks every year in order to keep the licence to use them? Or something.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 30, 2018)

Santino said:


> Hasn't the BBC got to show the Daleks every year in order to keep the licence to use them? Or something.


maybe that was Fake News, like everything is now


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 30, 2018)

There's an interesting piece about copyright ownership of various Dr Who characters here:
The Strange Copyright of Doctor Who - Plagiarism Today



> *The Daleks:* Though the design of the Daleks is owned by the BBC, the character of The Daleks is owned by estate of their creator, Terry Nation. This results in something of a joint ownership of the characters, where neither can really move forward without the other. In the 1960s, Nation had written a pilot for and pitched a TV series about the species but it was never produced.


That's about as clear as mud.

And, the Met tried to lay claim to the TADRIS. 



> *The TARDIS(?):* Though nothing is more iconic about Doctor Who than the TARDIS, at least two outside entities have tried to lay claim to it. First is the London Metropolitan Police, which attempted to claim it should hold the trademark to the name due to the likeness of a police box. They lost the case.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 30, 2018)

The Daleks pilot was written for a US audience, iirc, god only knows how that would have turned out!


----------



## kalidarkone (Oct 30, 2018)

Every Sunday I get a little bit excited because Dr Who is going to be on ...and within 15 minutes I've lost interest and feel disappointed. Despite that I like the new companions. Hate this Dr Who - like a female Colin Hunt:


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 30, 2018)

Dinnae be daft.


----------



## Santino (Oct 30, 2018)

You can't really judge a modern Doctor until they've done a monologue about their many past crimes and lost friends. It would be good to see Thirteen do something really cold and brutal (but morally necessary, obviously) by season end.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 30, 2018)

My daughter is writing to chibnall to ask if the next doctor can be a child. She is fantasising he will write back and ask if she will do it.


----------



## rekil (Oct 30, 2018)

kalidarkone said:


> Every Sunday I get a little bit excited because Dr Who is going to be on ...and within 15 minutes I've lost interest and feel disappointed. Despite that I like the new companions.


Since the baffling surname row I read posts like this in Harry Enfield's self righteous brothers voice. "I admire Whittaker's work but..."


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 30, 2018)

Santino said:


> You can't really judge a modern Doctor until they've done a monologue about their many past crimes and lost friends. It would be good to see Thirteen do something really cold and brutal (but morally necessary, obviously) by season end.


Thirteen? I thought that was Capaldi?  Given the Time Doctor etc.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 30, 2018)

kalidarkone said:


> Every Sunday I get a little bit excited because Dr Who is going to be on ...and within 15 minutes I've lost interest and feel disappointed. Despite that I like the new companions. Hate this Dr Who - like a female Colin Hunt:
> View attachment 151231


To some extent, she's certainly doing upbeat and 'breezy' at the moment, slightly adding to the kids tv vibe. Will be interesting how she plays it when it gets darker, has hard choices to make etc.

edit: oh, as said by Santino 2 posts down.


----------



## Santino (Oct 30, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Thirteen? I thought that was Capaldi?  Given the Time Doctor etc.


Hurt doesn't seem to have a number. To save nos. 9, 10 and 11 from being retrospectively re-numbered, I suppose.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 31, 2018)

Went wrong will try again


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 31, 2018)

Santino said:


> You can't really judge a modern Doctor until they've done a monologue about their many past crimes and lost friends. It would be good to see Thirteen do something really cold and brutal (but morally necessary, obviously) by season end.


Like goading tim shaw into detonating the dna bombs knowing they had been transferred to him.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 31, 2018)

Santino said:


> Hurt doesn't seem to have a number. To save nos. 9, 10 and 11 from being retrospectively re-numbered, I suppose.


I preferred it when they suggested that Hartnell was not even the first. . . But they later decided he was.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 31, 2018)

Watched 1 episode of the new series last night, the Rosa Parks one, just to see what it was about after a lot of friends seemed to be waxing lyrical about it on facebook and I've liked Jodie Whittaker in other drama stuff. But it seemed really childish to me. I can't understand how grown adults dig it so much. I've seen better acting on Grange Hill.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Oct 31, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> My daughter is writing to chibnall to ask if the next doctor can be a child. She is fantasising he will write back and ask if she will do it.



That's an excellent idea.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 31, 2018)

Santino said:


> You can't really judge a modern Doctor until they've done a monologue about their many past crimes and lost friends. It would be good to see Thirteen do something really cold and brutal (but morally necessary, obviously) by season end.


She couldn't even kick the annoying yank in the bollocks. Don't hold your breath.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 31, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Watched 1 episode of the new series last night, the Rosa Parks one, just to see what it was about after a lot of friends seemed to be waxing lyrical about it on facebook and I've liked Jodie Whittaker in other drama stuff. But it seemed really childish to me. I can't understand how grown adults dig it so much. I've seen better acting on Grange Hill.


My sentiments exactly! It is undoubtedly being written solely for children now.
Malorie Blackman was chief writer on that Rosa Parks episode. That says it all. She writes for children. That's why she was brought in, to make content for children.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2018)

a sign of maturity is enjoying childrens fiction without recoiling. This is still family fayre, but the point stands. 
It is fine to long to be grown up when one is an adolescent, after that, what dizzy heights of grown upness do you think lies beyond? this is it, we are the grown ups. And on sunday nights I shall watch a story about a time travelling alien who likes jellybabies.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 31, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> This kind of thing:
> 
> _What was once a determinedly far-fetched fantasy drama populated by Daleks and Cybermen has become a platform for social justice issues, complete with a racially diverse cast, they say.
> 
> ...


This is an annual event. Probably started with Frazer Hines. 

There should not be a "rehash of history." 
No social justice issues. 
No serious drama!

Have these knobs watched the show?


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 1, 2018)

Probably been lurking around certain forums or the not my doctor bollocks.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2018)

NO-O-O-O!!!

Rumour: No Doctor Who on Christmas Day, Special Moving to New Year – Doctor Who TV

That’s unacceptable.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2018)

New Year’s Day is not a TV day. It’s a friends popping in for a dram day.  This is wrong-headed and antisocial.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 4, 2018)

fuck sake chritma is shit, the only point in it is nice meal, doctor who, see a few bods

without the doctor who its just another day. wankers


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 4, 2018)

> The episode is likely to be the ONLY outing for Doctor Who next year, with fans facing a “gap year” until 2020.



A gap year?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 4, 2018)

fucking sabbatical


----------



## Santino (Nov 4, 2018)

This will allow a test of the Daleks-every-calendar-year theory.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2018)

The dickheads in my hood better stop setting off their phallic insecurity bangers before Dr Who. It’s like the fucking Somme here. Twats.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 4, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The dickheads in my hood better stop setting off their phallic insecurity bangers before Dr Who. It’s like the fucking Somme here. Twats.



Uncivilised Scots , not a single bang heard down here on the south coast tonight.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Nov 4, 2018)

This episode is shit.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2018)

Men giving birth. Political correctness gone mad.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 4, 2018)

Pretty nothingy episode I thought


----------



## kalidarkone (Nov 4, 2018)

So hammy. Made me cringe. Which I kind of enjoyed.


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 4, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Men giving birth. Political correctness gone mad.



The next Doctor will regenerate as a Dalek!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2018)

I liked it.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 4, 2018)

If you search on #drwho on Twitter the fans are spewing.  
They all seem to generally like Jodie but feel the writing is awful, and there seems to be widespread complaining about the political correctness. 

Does anyone know how the viewing figures are holding up?


----------



## Santino (Nov 4, 2018)

D'wards said:


> If you search on #drwho on Twitter the fans are spewing.
> They all seem to generally like Jodie but feel the writing is awful, and there seems to be widespread complaining about the political correctness.
> 
> Does anyone know how the viewing figures are holding up?


Still better than Capaldi's last series.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Does anyone know how the viewing figures are holding up?


http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/doctor-who-series-11-2018-uk-ratings-accumulator-88397.htm


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 4, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> NO-O-O-O!!!
> 
> Rumour: No Doctor Who on Christmas Day, Special Moving to New Year – Doctor Who TV
> 
> That’s unacceptable.



So there will be absolutely nothing worth watching on Christmas Day then


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2018)

Plumdaff said:


> So there will be absolutely nothing worth watching on Christmas Day then


Looks like it.  That’s Christmas Day ruined.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 4, 2018)

I liked The Doctor's anti-matter speech. Ryan and Yaz might as well be back on Earth for all that they are given to do.


----------



## Cloo (Nov 4, 2018)

My favourite episode of the series so far - well-drawn, likeable characters and some very touching moments that played well to the empathetic side. I think when episodes (not just this series) play on the emotional bit they can sometimes fall flat (that one about the trees, for example) and at times like this play very well.


----------



## Santino (Nov 4, 2018)

I want Doctor Who to do two things. Travel through time, and play on my emotions.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 4, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Men giving birth. Political correctness gone mad.


I don't mind the pc gorn mad side of it, just needed to be done _better_ with a bit more nuance.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2018)

Thoroughly enjoyable fun episode this week  always love a base/spaceship under threat story and this didnt disappoint  liked Pting and i am looking forward to watching this with the grandkids.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Men giving birth. Political correctness gone mad.


Technically he was a male gifftan, not a human so is that pc gone mad.


----------



## wiskey (Nov 5, 2018)

We have introduced werv (almost 10) to Dr Who this week as my mum was down for half term, we've watched the first three of this series and they have been really enjoyable, I last watched it when it was Tennant. Werv seems to be exactly the right age to understand but not be freaked out .... Giant spiders in ep4 might have us both hiding behind the sofa though


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Technically he was a male gifftan, not a human so is that pc gone mad.


It’s obviously inspired by:


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 5, 2018)

or maybe


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 5, 2018)

‘You haven’t got a womb, where’s the foetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?!’


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 5, 2018)

Disappointed it was a cesarean. We were all quite interested to see where it would come out.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 5, 2018)

Well, I am another one that enjoyed it.


----------



## lazythursday (Nov 5, 2018)

Enjoyed all the others but thought that was dire. Amateurish. But there are bound to be some bad episodes I guess.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 5, 2018)

A fangirl posted this on Twitter


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 5, 2018)

Hmm. I don't remember too many big speeches during the classic era, apart from _Genesis of the Daleks_ when Tom Baker's Doctor asking if he had the right to destroy the Daleks. The final responsibility was his and his alone...

Ok, so maybe the new series is just taking it easy before it hits with the hard stuff? I'm just guessing here as I haven't seen any of it & have no idea if and when Netflix will show it. If the series takes a hiatus - as has happened plenty of times during new & classic era - perhaps the production bods will have some new tricks up their sleeves... still confident. I watched the show from '74 right to the McCoy end... ups and downs aplenty!


----------



## Wilf (Nov 5, 2018)

D'wards said:


> A fangirl posted this on Twitter
> View attachment 151736 View attachment 151737


It's a bit early to be coming up with such sweeping criticisms, but I do agree with most of that. It sort of feels like every episode is one of those entirely forgettable episodes from the past, but isn't there as a contrast, they are _all_ like that. Suppose it just feels a bit 'light'. It also feels a bit Scooby Gang at the moment, with the 3 companions.  Suppose that will trim down to 1 at some point.

... [rant continues] the other thing, about the writing really, is that they are not getting the best out of Jodie Whittaker. She'd be very good at playing something a bit darker, but at the moment they have her as a slightly annoying cheerleader. And that's probably the key to it. Capaldi probably had some duff scripts, but they did at least allow him to play it darker.


----------



## lazythursday (Nov 5, 2018)

There's an awful lot I like - the change of tone, the more grounded characters, Jodie... but I am beginning to worry that the series isn't really going anywhere, isn't building to anything. I don't think the writing has been as terrible as some people think, but that last episode felt very clunky indeed. I have high hopes for the next one though (partition of India), and am hoping that the second half of the season will be much stronger.


----------



## belboid (Nov 5, 2018)

I enjoyed the episode. The 'monster' and the ships computer both had amusing hints of Hitchhikers Guide (the look on the P'tings face when it absorbed all that energy was marvellous), the supporting cast were good, and we had bits of well written character development. All solid stuff.

I'm quite glad for a bunch of standalone stories, the over-arching arcs weren't necessary, and were too often a bit rubbish. Just gad about the galaxies and have adventures!

As for no speeches, moralistic ones have been replaced by 'isn't science _amazing' _ones, and fair play to that.


----------



## belboid (Nov 5, 2018)

Santino said:


> Still better than Capaldi's last series.


Capaldi's last season was by far his best one!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

belboid said:


> Capaldi's last season was by far his best one!


Indeed. But I think Santino was referring to viewer figures.


----------



## belboid (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed. But I think Santino was referring to viewer figures.


Oh yes, I remember nearly posting my comment last night, then realised that that was what he was referring to.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 5, 2018)

Wilf said:


> feels a bit Scooby Gang at the moment


I was thinking more a cross between Rentaghost and Grange Hill.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2018)

How exactly. Did you just think of  two kids shows you didnt like and jammed them together.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 5, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> How exactly. Did you just think of  two kids shows you didnt like and jammed them together.


I LOVED Rentaghost... when I was 7.
The acting is very reminiscent of Rentaghost (and that particular era), with a similar 'crew' to the Rentaghost crew, and Jodie Whittaker seems to be some sort of amalgamation of Nadia Popov (Sue Nicholls) and Timothy Claypole (Michael Staniforth). 
Grange Hill was just shit stories with shit acting.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 5, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Grange Hill was just shit stories with shit acting.


Get out!
Grange Hill was GREAT stories and GREAT acting


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2018)

Be fair some of the later stuff was a bit naff in G. H. We all like differant stuff, saul is just being a bit petulant in his dislike.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 5, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Be fair some of the later stuff was a bit naff in G. H. We all like differant stuff, saul is just being a bit petulant in his dislike.


Not really. I'm just refusing to bow down to peer pressure and pretend it's anything but shit.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 5, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Be fair some of the later stuff was a bit naff in G. H. We all like differant stuff, saul is just being a bit petulant in his dislike.


The Zammo on drugs stuff was brilliant


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2018)

Saul I was talking about you not too you .
you can dislike Who all you like, same as I can like it as much as I want to,
(I  did not think I would like  it so I'm happy I do)
Also thanks for expanding on your rentaghost comparison, I dont agree with it but at least  I understand your point a bit more clearly. But disagreement with your opinion is not pressuring you to change your mind, neither is thinking your post is petulant,thats just my opinion.
Comfort yourself with the knowledge that there will be a regeneration in a couple of years.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm just refusing to bow down


mandela over here


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2018)

D'wards said:


> The Zammo on drugs stuff was brilliant


Yes that was well done, but that song was awful, and I had out grown grange hill by then and only have vague memories of it.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 5, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Saul I was talking about you not too you .
> you can dislike Who all you like, same as I can like it as much as I want to,


Except that doesn't appear to be the case. It seems that only those who enjoy it are allowed an opinion, and any opinion to the contrary is petulance.
But you are right. We're all entitled to our opinion, and I'd like to be afforded that pleasure without being insulted for it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Except that doesn't appear to be the case. It seems that only those who enjoy it are allowed an opinion, and any opinion to the contrary is petulance.
> But you are right. We're all entitled to our opinion, and I'd like to be afforded that pleasure without being insulted for it.


You _are_ allowed your opinion, though. And you’ve had 26 goes at it on this thread. And nobody is suggesting you be debarred from as many more goes as you wish.

Where you may be confused is this: Some people are expressing their opinion about your opinion. To which they are also entitled. Even if their opinion is “fuck off Saul”.


----------



## Santino (Nov 5, 2018)

Stop watching it, stop posting on this thread, and stop boring us with your boring opinions.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 5, 2018)

Santino said:


> Stop watching it, stop posting on this thread, and stop boring us with your boring opinions.


Stop being a cunt who thinks their opinion is the only opinion that matters, you petulant cunt.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> You _are_ allowed your opinion, though. And you’ve had 26 goes at it on this thread. And nobody is suggesting you be debarred from as many more goes as you wish.
> 
> Where you may be confused is this: Some people are expressing their opinion about your opinion. To which they are also entitled. Even if their opinion is “fuck off Saul”.


That's fine and dandy. Henceforth I shall respond accordingly.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 5, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Not really. I'm just refusing to bow down to peer pressure and pretend it's anything but shit.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Except that doesn't appear to be the case. It seems that only those who enjoy it are allowed an opinion, and any opinion to the contrary is petulance.
> But you are right. We're all entitled to our opinion, and I'd like to be afforded that pleasure without being insulted for it.


Its not the opinion thats petulant it the way you chose to express it,why would anyone want you to pretend to like the episodes  coming out with statments like that is the petulant bit it also infers that those who say they like it are pretending that they do which is wrong.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2018)

Also the petulant bit was initially about what you said about grange hill rather than dr who .


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 5, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Also the petulant bit was initially about what you said about grange hill rather than dr who .


I should have explained the Grange Hill reference better. What I meant was that Dr. Who now appears to be written solely for children, and the acting is also akin to the acting in Grange Hill. It's like watching Rainbow with a Tardis.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2018)

Thats ok  but it was more about what you said about grange hill in itself not that you were comparing it with who, I could have been clearer about that myself.
We can be a snippy bunch of fans sometimes


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

I've got one, but let's see where we can go with this 

What's the difference between Jodie Whittaker and Harold Shipman?
Harold Shipman was a much better doctor.

Or... What have Jodie Whittaker and Harold Shipman got in common?
They're both very bad doctors.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

I've just watched the latest episode. I didn't think it could get any worse but, unsurprisingly, it managed to prove me wrong. 
Where to start?
The Doctor killed a cute spacey thing! GTF! The Doctor would never kill a cute alien thing, without first having a word with it!
Where was The Doctor hiding for the majority of the episode? Why was she not the centre of the episode? What is this... Companions, extras and The Doctor?
I was waiting for one of the companions to burst in on Jodie Whittaker and say "where the fuck have you been, there's shit going on out here!" And she replies with "Oh, sorry, I was out in Wigan, eating some pies and updating me wardrobe!" 
Fuck sake, it's a laughing stock


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

What's the difference between Jodie Whittaker and a ghost?
A ghost has more presence!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

What's the difference between Jodie Whittaker and a pigeon?
A pigeon doesn't need anyone to carrier!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

What's the difference between Jodie Whittaker and David Tennant?
One is a patient!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

What's the difference between Professor Moriarty and Jodie Whittaker?
Professor Moriarty didn't manage to kill The Doctor!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

What's the difference between Jodie Whittaker and a joint?
You enjoy a joint before you fall asleep


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

What's the difference between Jodie Whittaker and a boomerang?
A boomerang might return!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

What's the difference between Jodie Whittaker and a Crocus?
A Crocus is going to reappear next Easter!


----------



## kittyP (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> a sign of maturity is enjoying childrens fiction without recoiling. This is still family fayre, but the point stands.
> It is fine to long to be grown up when one is an adolescent, after that, what dizzy heights of grown upness do you think lies beyond? this is it, we are the grown ups. And on sunday nights I shall watch a story about a time travelling alien who likes jellybabies.


Absolutely this!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

What's got two hearts and is mildly interesting?
A valentine's card!


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 6, 2018)




----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> The Doctor killed a cute spacey thing!


Pting? No she didn’t. She fed it an enourmous meal that would last it a long time.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 6, 2018)

These one-liner jokes are all flawed in their basic set ups.  For example, Moriaty was a Sherlock Holmes thing not a Doctor Who thing (albeit I double checked and there does appear to be some obscure comic book reference). Plus Doctor Who is not dead.  

Similar flaws apply to all the other “jokes”.  They don’t work.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 6, 2018)

Just evidence that Saul Goodman can’t even follow the plot of a children’s programme. 

Maybe he should try something on CBeebies?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 6, 2018)




----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I should have explained the Grange Hill reference better. What I meant was that Dr. Who now appears to be written solely for children, and the acting is also akin to the acting in Grange Hill. It's like watching Rainbow with a Tardis.



_Now_ appears?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

kabbes said:


> These one-liner jokes are all flawed in their basic set ups.  For example, Moriaty was a Sherlock Holmes thing not a Doctor Who thing (albeit I double checked and there does appear to be some obscure comic book reference). Plus Doctor Who is not dead.
> 
> Similar flaws apply to all the other “jokes”.  They don’t work.


They all work perfectly. It's not my fault you can't understand them.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> They all work perfectly. It's not my fault you can't understand them.



And it's not our fault if you can't understand an episode of Doctor Who.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> They all work perfectly. It's not my fault you can't understand them.


In what way is Whittaker not returning then?  She’s on next week.


----------



## belboid (Nov 6, 2018)

kabbes said:


> In what way is Whittaker not returning then?  She’s on next week.


But she isn't coming back at Easter specifically. 

Which is, apparently, a 'joke'


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Pting? No she didn’t. She fed it an enourmous meal that would last it a long time.


And called it a taxi?


----------



## Santino (Nov 6, 2018)

You're a taxi.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

its great to see those unknown fans who have watched in silence over the last decade suddenly find a voice though.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

Santino said:


> You're a taxi.


You're not very good at this, are you


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> its great to see those unknown fans who have watched in silence over the last decade suddenly find a voice though.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and hazard a guess that I was watching Dr. Who before you were born.


----------



## Santino (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> You're not very good at this, are you


no you are


----------



## Santino (Nov 6, 2018)

Can I also be the first to say that no, you are getting angry and I'm just laughing to myself all this time. Laughing out loud in my office.


----------



## Santino (Nov 6, 2018)

I fought a Time War for your sort.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> And called it a taxi?


Were you watching the episode?


----------



## belboid (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> And called it a taxi?


If you'd paid attention, you'd know they can easily survive in a vacuum, it was explicitly mentioned a number of times. And, having been fed a humongous meal, it won't be trying to kill anyone for yonks.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and hazard a guess that I was watching Dr. Who before you were born.


watching old who as a kid doesn't count, it just means you are older than me. I subscribed to who magazine when I was 11. There was no doctor who on at the time at all and hadn't been for years. Basically I am a true fan and you happened to be in the room sometimes when it was on tele back in the day.

Just did a search of the previous two seasons threads. Not a peep chief, guess you just rated them all. Which do you feel was capaldis strongest episode? overall, not just the last season.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Were you watching the episode?


Between playing Mahjong on my phone and playing with cats, I managed to subject myself to bits of it.


belboid said:


> If you'd paid attention, you'd know they can easily survive in a vacuum, it was explicitly mentioned a number of times. And, having been fed a humongous meal, it won't be trying to kill anyone for yonks.


It'll just slowly starve to death.


----------



## belboid (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Between playing Mahjong on my phone and playing with cats, I managed to subject myself to bits of it.
> 
> It'll just slowly starve to death.


If you'd paid any attention, you'd know that, no it wouldn't.

Maybe you missed some subtleties while you were playing with yourself


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Which do you feel was capaldis strongest episode? overall, not just the last season.


My favourite was The Magician's Apprentice. The electric guitar scene on the tank was excellent


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Between playing Mahjong on my phone and playing with cats, I managed to subject myself to bits of it.


You’ve missed information that contradicts things which form the basis  of your plot objections.

1. Pting can survive in space. And normally resides there.

2. It eats energy. The explosion provided enough nourishment for a very long time.

3. If it remained on the ship it would (inadvertently) kill everyone on it.

4. The Doctor fed Pting a very big meal and returned it to its natural habitat.

These points were all explained during the episode.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> watching old who as a kid doesn't count, it just means you are older than me. I subscribed to who magazine when I was 11. There was no doctor who on at the time at all and hadn't been for years. Basically I am a true fan and you happened to be in the room sometimes when it was on tele back in the day.


For the record. I've watched every single episode, from the very first to the pregnant man. Although I have to admit, I completely lost interest and started playing Mahjong at about 10 minutes into this one, which is telling, as I even managed to sit through all of the Sylvester McCoy, Peter Davidson and Colin Baker episodes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> For the record. I've watched every single episode, from the very first to the pregnant man. Although I have to admit, I completely lost interest and started playing Mahjong at about 10 minutes into this one, which is telling, as I even managed to sit through all of the Sylvester McCoy, Peter Davidson and Colin Baker episodes.


I don't believe you at all saul, not a bit of it. Claiming to have seen all the bill hartnell ones eh? chinny recon.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I don't believe you at all saul, not a bit of it. Claiming to have seen all the bill hartnell ones eh? chinny recon.


Yes. Every one. Because I'm a real fan and you'll only ever be a wannabe


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I've watched every single episode, from the very first to the pregnant man


You’ve seen the Myth Makers, Marco Polo, the Massacre of St Bartholomew Eve?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Yes. Every one. Because I'm a real fan and you'll only ever be a wannabe


why, you must have a TARDIS of your own in order to go back in time and watch those bill hartnell episodes as the beeb taped overloads of them in the early 70s so you can't have seen them. Checkmate.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> why, you must have a TARDIS of your own in order to go back in time and watch those bill hartnell episodes as the beeb taped overloads of them in the early 70s so you can't have seen them. Checkmate.


Like I said. Every single one of them. My uncle worked at the BBC when I was a child, and I got to go there quite a lot. I've seen things would make you wannabe Who fans weep.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

oh yeah, when the doctor was played by Jimmy Hill


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> oh yeah, when the doctor was played by Jimmy Hill


I can picture you, sat there seething at the thought that I've seen episodes that you will only ever dream of


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I can picture you, sat there seething at the thought that I've seen episodes that you will only ever dream of


Saul, I just caught you in a massive falsehood. You're making it worse, now claiming to have been there to watch them in the studio, 57 years ago. Lol. Toasting marshallows on your burning underpants here


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Saul, I just caught you in a massive falsehood. You're making it worse, now claiming to have been there to watch them in the studio, 57 years ago. Lol. Toasting marshallows on your burning underpants here


How does the world look through those envious green eyes?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 6, 2018)

I actually am William Hartnell so fuck you all.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I actually am William Hartnell so fuck you all.


Can I call you Bill, like your good friend DotCommunist?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> How does the world look through those envious green eyes?


My eyes are a lovely shade of hazel y'know. I suppose yours must be failing a bit now, what with you being 70 odd *snigger*


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> My eyes are a lovely shade of hazel y'know. I suppose yours must be failing a bit now, what with you being 70 odd *snigger*


Your maths needs a bit of work.
Anyway, I'm going to go back to revelling in blissfully smug glee


----------



## belboid (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Anyway, I'm going to go back to revelling in my fantasy life


cfy


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

I heard Peter Cushing was poorly one day and they let Saul do his body double for 'Daleks Invasion Earth'. Apparently they wanted hi to do more but his dad (who is bigger than your dad) said no, he had to go down pit cos it was the olden days


----------



## belboid (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I heard Peter Cushing was poorly one day and they let Saul do his body double for 'Daleks Invasion Earth'. Apparently they wanted hi to do more but his dad (who is bigger than your dad) said no, he had to go down pit cos it was the olden days


And we all know what was at the bottom of that pit, don't we? Satan PIt wasn't fiction, it was all based on Saul's adventures!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I heard Peter Cushing was poorly one day and they let Saul do his body double for 'Daleks Invasion Earth'. Apparently they wanted hi to do more but his dad (who is bigger than your dad) said no, he had to go down pit cos it was the olden days


Jealousy oozing out of every pore


----------



## rubbershoes (Nov 6, 2018)

I don't know what this Doctor is yet. Jodie is a great actor but so far, she hasn't put her imprint on the character. She pulls some faces but that's not enough 

Graham is fantastic and Yaz is good. Ryan couldn't act to save his life if he was being auditioned by Mondasian cybermen

It's still early days but I'm reserving judgement.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 6, 2018)

Seriously saul why are you being such a twat.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 6, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Seriously daul why are you being such a twat.



Why is the pope shitting in the woods?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Seriously daul why are you being such a twat.


I'm trying to catch up with you.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Seriously daul why are you being such a twat.


Are you so lacking in self-awareness that you can't see that it's you who is being a twat? You insult me for daring to have an opinion that doesn't conform to your own, then expect me to sit here and say fuck all? Get ta fuck.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 6, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I actually am William Hartnell so fuck you all.


'H.. Hartnell, Troughton Pertwee...'


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Are you so lacking in self-awareness that you can't see that it's you who is being a twat? You insult me for daring to have an opinion that doesn't conform to your own, then expect me to sit here and say fuck all? Get ta fuck.


Is it some sort of break down, there seem to be other people who feel like you on twitter, go find them it might make you feel better


----------



## belboid (Nov 6, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Seriously saul why are you being such a twat.


It's the only attention he gets


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Is it some sort of break down, there seem to be other people who feel like you on twitter, go find them it might make you feel better


Don't try to analyse me or dictate what and where I can post, you complete cunt!


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 6, 2018)

Do stop being such a petulant twat saul, its just a fun tv programme at the end of the day. 
The star and the showrunner will change at some point, comfort yourself with dvds. Its really not worth getting yourself het up. 
You do have my sympathy though.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Do stop being such a petulant twat saul, its just a fun tv programme at the end of the day.
> The star and the showrunner will change at some point, comfort yourself with dvds. Its really not worth getting yourself het up.
> You do have my sympathy though.


In your opinion. Try not to get your knickers in a twist when someone has a different opinion.
And I don't want or need your sympathy, you patronising cunt.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

So we've conclusively proven that saul has never previously commented on doctor who threads, despite these hitherto unmentioned trips to see it recorded with his uncle (I leave the reader to judge the veracity of such tales). Curioser and curioser


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> trips to see it recorded with his uncle


If you see a picture of young Saul standing next to an actor in a bee costume, I take it you’ll eat your words?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> So we've conclusively proven that saul has never previously commented on doctor who threads, despite these hitherto unmentioned trips to see it recorded with his uncle (I leave the reader to judge the veracity of such tales). Curioser and curioser


I adore your feeble attempts at concealing your jealousy


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> In your opinion. Try not to get your knickers in a twist when someone has a different opinion.
> And I don't want or need your sympathy, you patronising cunt.


But you have it anyway. 
The changes in the show have obviously been hard for you to cope with. 
Hope you feel better about it a some point, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> So we've conclusively proven that saul has never previously commented on doctor who threads, despite these hitherto unmentioned trips to see it recorded with his uncle (I leave the reader to judge the veracity of such tales). Curioser and curioser


Liked for the last three words


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> But you have it anyway.
> The changes in the show have obviously been hard for you to cope with.
> Hope you feel better about it a some point, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you


The changes haven't been hard for me. They've been quite rewarding. It's given me the chance to watch people squirming 
And thanks for your concern. I'll make sure to file it under "Things I don't give a fuck about".


----------



## belboid (Nov 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> The changes haven't been hard for me. They've been quite rewarding. It's given me the chance to watch people squirming


No one is squirming. Eye rolling aplenty, but no squirming. 


> And thanks for your concern. I'll make sure to file it under "Things I don't give a fuck about".


You very obviously do, or you wouldn't be going on so.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 6, 2018)

At least you have found something to enjoy about the program so well done you at least you are trying.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

of course the imaginary uncle stuff was throwing up sand to obscure the odd fact that this alleged who fan has only appeared this season to say how shit it is. I draw my own conclusions.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> of course the imaginary uncle stuff was throwing up sand to obscure the odd fact that this alleged who fan has only appeared this season to say how shit it is. I draw my own conclusions.


You must be seething with envy


----------



## Wilf (Nov 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> of course the imaginary uncle stuff was throwing up sand to obscure the odd fact that this alleged who fan has only appeared this season to say how shit it is. I draw my own conclusions.


My imaginary uncle is George Best. Trouble is, he never took me to the football, he just got me on the peeve.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2018)

Just rewatched the Woman Who Fell To Earth. It’s even better the second time.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 7, 2018)

Just did a rewatch of the last episode with my eldest granddaughter she really enjoyed it, she said it was her favourite so far, she thought the P'ting was cute.
She definitely prefers the more sci-fi heavy stories.


----------



## KeeperofDragons (Nov 7, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Just did a rewatch of the last episode with my eldest granddaughter she really enjoyed it, she said it was her favourite so far, she thought the P'ting was cute.
> She definitely prefers the more sci-fi heavy stories.



Now that's a girl with taste


----------



## Helen Back (Nov 9, 2018)

There are no good episodes. There are no bad episodes. There are only episodes that an individual either likes or doesn't like. If you don't like a story or even a Doctor then wait a bit and there'll one along soon that you do like. In the case of a Doctor you may have to wait a few years but...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 9, 2018)

Helen Back said:


> There are no good episodes.


Bollocks!


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 9, 2018)

Helen Back said:


> There are no good episodes. There are no bad episodes. There are only episodes that an individual either likes or doesn't like. If you don't like a story or even a Doctor then wait a bit and there'll one along soon that you do like. In the case of a Doctor you may have to wait a few years but...


Oh there's definatly a few bad episodes, far more good episode, the fun comes from arguing about which ones they are.
Also I  can't believe that you have made me agree with saul goodman on this thread and give him a like  .


----------



## Helen Back (Nov 9, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Also I  can't believe that you have made me agree with saul goodman on this thread and give him a like  .



All part of the service.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 11, 2018)

That was very good. Very moving.


----------



## Epona (Nov 11, 2018)

I thought that episode was bloody excellent - I was expecting something that tied in with Remembrance Sunday, but the subject matter itself was unexpected and made a real change - was proper moving too.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 11, 2018)

Christ, I'm a bit of a mess after that


----------



## tommers (Nov 11, 2018)

Yes. I liked that a lot. Families, losing loved ones. Pushed some buttons.


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 11, 2018)

It was a fresh take on a Remembrance episode and all the better for it. I thought it was excellent.


----------



## May Kasahara (Nov 11, 2018)

Silently sobbing here


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 11, 2018)

I'm worried about Graham. I think there's something he's not telling the rest of them...


----------



## Epona (Nov 11, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I'm worried about Graham. I think there's something he's not telling the rest of them...



Is it that the chaser is only 1 question behind them?

(Sorry)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 11, 2018)

Epona said:


> Is it that the chaser is only 1 question behind them?
> 
> (Sorry)



 No need to apologise...


----------



## Epona (Nov 11, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> No need to apologise...



I actually love The Chase, it's one of the best quiz shows, so when I refer to it it is not out of disrespect or anything.  I still marvel at the fact that after Doctor Who ends on the beeb I can switch channels and watch The Chase on ITV   That is what time travel is for, so you can get back in time to present the next quiz show


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 11, 2018)

Epona said:


> I actually love The Chase, it's one of the best quiz shows, so when I refer to it it is not out of disrespect or anything.  I still marvel at the fact that after Doctor Who ends on the beeb I can switch channels and watch The Chase on ITV   That is what time travel is for, so you can get back in time to present the next quiz show



I like it too. Bradley Walsh dominates the two main channels on a Sunday night, somewhat unexpectedly!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 11, 2018)

I’d go so far as to say this has been my favourite episode so far.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 12, 2018)

That was a beautiful episode, a lovely blend of sci-fi and historical, I will say more after a rewatch, too tired to say much now


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 12, 2018)

I have to agree with everything posted above, about this episode, very moving, nice historical angle making it educational for kids, and some decent sci-fi action, with proper monster-like aliens zapping around, with the interesting twist that they weren't actually baddies after all. 

I would put this just ahead of the Rosa Parks one, making it my favourite episode so far.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 12, 2018)

Small stories of no great importance beyond themselves.  That’s exactly what Doctor Who does best.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 17, 2018)

I'm really, really enjoying this series. Terrific performances and great storylines.

I wonder if we'll see Chris Noth's character again. I squealed a bit when I saw him as I've loved him since "Law and Order".

Fangirl fact. He was one of the original actors in "Law and Order" in the states and Bradley Walsh was one of leads in the original "Law and Order UK"!!


----------



## Helen Back (Nov 17, 2018)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I wonder if we'll see Chris Noth's character again.



Who?


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 17, 2018)

The american who shot the giant spider


----------



## Helen Back (Nov 17, 2018)

Oh, okay. Thanks.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 18, 2018)

i thought it was really good - fate, death, love  and not shying away from the appalling (and mostly ignored) tragedy of indian partition. 
Also big plus points for the doctor not being some messiah who can make everything alright. 

Very very powerful stuff for kids friendly drama - I imagine it will be the sort of story that would stick in a young person's memory.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 18, 2018)

Just noticed it started at 6.30 tonight, isn't that earlier than it has been?

Or, am I going mad?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 18, 2018)

Bubblewrap is back, back, back in Doctor Who for the first time since The Ark in Space!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 18, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Bubblewrap is back, back, back in Doctor Who for the first time since The Ark in Space!


This episode had a very 70s Classic Who feel about it at times too.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 18, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Just noticed it started at 6.30 tonight, isn't that earlier than it has been?
> 
> Or, am I going mad?


Missed the first half ruddy hour cos up of it.

Luckily it was series linked anyways 

My favourite episode so far tonight


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 18, 2018)

Henceforth this will be known as the 'Amazon episode'.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 18, 2018)

The conveyor belt scene was a blatant lift from Toy Story 2.


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 18, 2018)

I think it's more that conveyor belt scenes are a TV trope used in both this episode and loads of other stuff.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 18, 2018)

Haven't seen tonight's yet but watched last week's earlier and thought it was very well done and really rather moving. 

However the menfolk were less enthusiastic and want a good old fashioned monster drink, the heathens!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 18, 2018)

Last week's was excellent. This was just going through the motions with the usual subversion of expectations.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 18, 2018)

Plumdaff said:


> I think it's more that conveyor belt scenes are a TV trope used in both this episode and loads of other stuff.


The Temple of Doom!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2018)

The fez nod


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 19, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> The fez nod



I liked that the fez was way too big for her head. I mean, let's face it, Eleven had a massive bonce.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 19, 2018)

Dan!  Dan!  Dan!  Dan!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 19, 2018)

OK, OK, I heard you!


----------



## kabbes (Nov 19, 2018)

It just felt like an Alan Partridge nod to me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2018)

I was thinking that while the history ones are good, and doctor who as sly teach is old school, this one was 'just' a sci fi one and I like that n all. Thinking about it tho there *was* message, about workplace exploitation and standing up to dickhead managers. Hardly ze call to arms like, but it was fun anyway


----------



## kabbes (Nov 19, 2018)

Although the corporation and the managers were the good guys and the underclass worker was the bad guy.


----------



## Helen Back (Nov 19, 2018)

You don't get me, I'm part of the union!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2018)

fair old body count this episode as well. Nobody got saved


----------



## strung out (Nov 19, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Although the corporation and the managers were the good guys and the underclass worker was the bad guy.


I thought that too - the system/company as benevolant corporate entity, dickhead boss turning out to be a good guy after all, and the maintenance worker who took action to undermine automised systems of distribution at the cost of jobs for real people, being painted as the bad guy. Rubbish.

I thought the system being the sender of the 'help me' message was a bit obvious, but the robots were good fun. I like how sinister they were - reminded me of the bus conductor in Greatest Show in the Galaxy



"Tickets please"


----------



## kabbes (Nov 19, 2018)

strung out said:


> I thought that too - the system/company as benevolant corporate entity, dickhead boss turning out to be a good guy after all, and maintenance worker who took action to undermine automised systems of distribution at the cost of jobs for real people, being painted as the bad guy. Rubbish.


I think it was a desperate attempt to subvert trope-savvy expectations.  And to be fair, it worked.  I was convinced it was going to be yet another cyberman episode.


----------



## strung out (Nov 19, 2018)

Looks like I wasn't the only one to notice the resemblance!

 

Blast from the Past: The Continuity References of Doctor Who: Kerblam! - Blogtor Who


----------



## Signal 11 (Nov 19, 2018)

strung out said:


> Blast from the Past: The Continuity References of Doctor Who: Kerblam! - Blogtor Who



In the image of him playing chess with k9 on that site the board is the wrong way round. But it's right in the video. They must have set it up wrong and had to redo it, but released a still image from the wrong one.

 

(left is the still and right is a screenshot from the video (The Androids of Tara - Wikipedia).)


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 19, 2018)

Helen Back said:


> You don't get me, I'm part of the union!



That brings back memories.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 19, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> fair old body count this episode as well. Nobody got saved



The love interest girl was clearly too adorable to live. Surprised they didn't give her a red shirt.


----------



## tommers (Nov 19, 2018)

Still. Lee Mack got it. So not all bad.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Nov 21, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I think it was a desperate attempt to subvert trope-savvy expectations.  And to be fair, it worked.  I was convinced it was going to be yet another cyberman episode.


Nah the finger wagging at current “populist rage” was always in the post with this series though it was still depressing to see it. They really laid on thick too, I don’t know how anyone could have missed it. “The system isn’t the problem” aye aye.  I hope they’ve got that out of their eh... system now.


----------



## magneze (Nov 21, 2018)

This is the best Dr Who since the Tennant era, easily. Great stories and characters.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 21, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I was thinking that while the history ones are good, and doctor who as sly teach is old school, this one was 'just' a sci fi one and I like that n all. Thinking about it tho there *was* message, about workplace exploitation and standing up to dickhead managers. Hardly ze call to arms like, but it was fun anyway



They kind of sold out that message by making it all about some lone wolf nutcase rather than a corporate conspiracy.


----------



## tommers (Nov 21, 2018)

The "system" did also blow up the space cadet girl in front of him just to make a point.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Nov 21, 2018)

tommers said:


> The "system" did also blow up the space cadet girl in front of him just to make a point.


it was weird how they tried to make a message of that as well, like the doctor pointed it out. THE SYSTEM TRIED TO SHOW YOU.
who wrote that shit? probably someone laughing at factory closures in Llanelli.
Bring back the RTD gays and chavs agenda haha it wouldn’t have happened under his watch


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Nov 21, 2018)

But Jodie Whitaker is bloody awesome, proper spacey feel to her performance, a real rival to Tennant and Eccleston.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Nov 21, 2018)

If no one has said “spacey feel” up until now in the context of acting may I patent it.


----------



## fishfinger (Nov 21, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> If no one has said “spacey feel” up until now in the context of acting may I patent it.


It wasn't good for Kevin.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Nov 21, 2018)

fishfinger said:


> It wasn't good for Kevin.


Hahahaha! 
That’s apt as well cause he did a good job with Prot. But he didn’t ruin life as much as Rolf Harris did in that I had to bin my ROFL t shirt


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Nov 25, 2018)

Alan Cumming's certainly enjoying himself


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Nov 25, 2018)

I haven't really watched Dr Who for ages but I'm enjoying this series. Jodie Whitaker is brilliant.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 25, 2018)

Very good. AC was letting rip there.


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2018)

That was ducking great.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 25, 2018)

I really enjoyed that , was smiling at the end


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 25, 2018)

Chibnall: "We're going to need a MASSIVE HAM to play King James"

Casting Director: "Get me Alan Cumming's agent, stat!"

Good episode, again.


----------



## killer b (Nov 25, 2018)

Was that Rita from rita sue & Bob too?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Nov 25, 2018)

killer b said:


> Was that Rita from rita sue & Bob too?


Yes - Siobhan Finneran. I love that film so much I'll watch absolutely anything with her or George Costigan in it


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 25, 2018)

I knew the doc would tip Houdini a nod after escaping from that dunking. That could have been as grim as the northern scenery but it was played quite funny for the subject. Which turned out to be an alien prison and then there were burning torches (sci fi ones). That made me chuckle.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 25, 2018)

pretty daft but good fun. Did anyone else think the mud queen looked like Old Gregg from the mighty boosh?


----------



## discobastard (Nov 25, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Alan Cumming's certainly enjoying himself


One of the most over the top performances in the 55 year history of Dr Who [emoji16]

Reminds me of Graham Crowden in The Horns of Nimon [emoji1787]


----------



## discobastard (Nov 25, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Yes - Siobhan Finneran. I love that film so much I'll watch absolutely anything with her or George Costigan in it


Sarah Lancashire’ sister in Happy Valley?  She was exceptional in that.  

Good spot!


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 26, 2018)

A highly entertaining episode, an excellent cast and just good all round 
The grandkids enjoyed it although the youngest granddaughter thought it was freaky.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Nov 26, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Sarah Lancashire’ sister in Happy Valley?  She was exceptional in that.
> 
> Good spot!


Yep


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 26, 2018)

Since the reboot Mrs SI has been obsessed with Who. Memorabilia everywhere, etc. We'd often wait for the kids to go to bed before watching but it always got watched on the day. 

We're currently two episodes behind. Neither of us like Jodie Whitaker. Like Mrs SI says "she's acting the Doctor, not being the Doctor". I find it hard to watch her in it.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 26, 2018)

I thought the story was pretty shit but it was totally saved by the awesome ham performance of Alan Cummings — literally the only way it could have worked.  Great interplay in the performances too between him, the Doctor, Ryan and Graham.  Made what would have been a tedious dirge into something genuinely fun and entertaining.


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 26, 2018)

Yes, Alan Cummings going full panto was what made the episode.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 26, 2018)

Silly story line, but overall fun & entertaining, Alan Cumming was excellent, certainly another good episode IMO.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 26, 2018)

i much prefer the more fun, family friendly dr who over the smart arse over-complexity of moffat. Simple stories with engaging characters is a pretty good basis for drama. Even it is sometimes a bit naive - dr who is now reliably engaging and fun, and sometimes powerful and poignant (e.g the demons of the punjab) - previously it was consistently really fucking annoying and overblown - i dont get that now. The kids (4 and 6) like it more as well. 

plus every week the gammons blow a fuse on social media. ( hes a timeLORD!!!  etc etc)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 2, 2018)

Just OK tonight, really. I doubt I'll remember anything about it in a few weeks time.

In other news, it looks like the entirety of the revival has been given permanent fixture status on iPlayer. All 155 episodes and counting, with availability of "over a year" which is the highest it goes.

BBC iPlayer - Doctor Who


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 2, 2018)

Yeah, not my favourite that. Wasn’t keen on the “conscious universe” idea.  But the child actor was great.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 2, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Just OK tonight, really. I doubt I'll remember anything about it in a few weeks time.



OK, I'll probably remember this bit


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2018)

best one yet imo, flesh moths, time lord myths, loss and loneliness. The frog lol.


----------



## tommers (Dec 2, 2018)

I thought it was great. Not as action packed as some but quite emotional (for me anyway) 

The 6yr old pootled around a bit during it but then asked questions at the end that showed she'd been watching.

This series has become a fixture. One of the highlights of the week. My son is into Strictly and my daughter is into this. Its a nice combo.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 2, 2018)

WAY too much tell rather than show.


----------



## Cloo (Dec 2, 2018)

I loved it and found it surprisingly emotional when she was talking to the frog!

And lots of props for having an actually blind actress playing a blind character, and for portraying her as a proper arsey teenager rather than having her be saintly because she's disabled.


----------



## Santino (Dec 2, 2018)

Cloo said:


> I loved it and found it surprisingly emotional when she was talking to the frog!
> 
> And lots of props for having an actually blind actress playing a blind character, and for portraying her as a proper arsey teenager rather than having her be saintly because she's disabled.


Also she didn't have any blind superpowers.


----------



## Santino (Dec 2, 2018)

''Oh no, who is going to lead us through this dark cave, it having been previously established that it is dangerous to carry a light? Will it be this blind girl?"

"No, just run for it mate."


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2018)

Santino said:


> Also she didn't have any blind superpowers.


only she could tell the mum wasn't real, by sensing it


----------



## Santino (Dec 2, 2018)

It made the least sense of any episode so far, but I still enjoyed it. Also the first glimpse of the Doctor as an angst-ridden war criminal, which is one of my favourite aspects of her.


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 2, 2018)

I quite liked it.  I find little to dislike in this reimagining of Doctor Who as an ensemble show.  It’s more child and young person friendly than previous new Who, but it’s still dark and scary, just entirely without the need for anyone to “appeal to the dads”, or similar.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 2, 2018)

Really enjoyed that bonkers episode, loved the frog, all in all a fun watch with a nice mix of barmy and touching,  beautifully shot, the cast were excellent and I'm still a happy whovian.


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 2, 2018)

There were a couple of Douglas Adamsy touches, and the sentient universe itself reminded me of the characters in that Neil gaiman episode.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 2, 2018)

liked the dodgey dealing creature that ended up getting eaten by moths - but it was never explained where he came from. 
Also - last week i was getting mighty boosh's old greg from the alien baddie  - this week aforesaid dodgey dealing creature seemed to channeling mr susan of the mirror world.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> liked the dodgey dealing creature that ended up getting eaten by moths - but it was never explained where he came from.
> Also - last week i was getting mighty boosh's old greg from the alien baddie  - this week aforesaid dodgey dealing creature seemed to channeling mr susan of the mirror world.



'always been here' was what he said when asked, just part of the defense mechanism that that realm was. The shot of a moth crawling out from his hollow head after he got got was raw for me, but then I dislike moths .


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Dec 2, 2018)

Slight time related derail- made a twat of myself in front of my son today by sobbing during Tennants demise- we are ploughing through the box set 2-3-4 episodes at a time cause I wanted him to understand what was going on before we watched Jodie who he has seen and liked right away- I’m actually shocked at the number of times I end up in tears during Tennants time. But yeah I went a bit overboard this time.
“What’s wrong????”

Little does he know we are about the endure the horror of the Moffat years.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 3, 2018)

I thought it was OK, certainly not the best of the series.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 3, 2018)

Good to see The Actor Kevin Eldon getting work


----------



## tommers (Dec 3, 2018)

Balbi said:


> Good to see The Actor Kevin Eldon getting work


Thought he looked familiar.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 3, 2018)

Balbi said:


> Good to see The Actor Kevin Eldon getting work


Known only to my daughter as Simon Quinlank.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

Santino said:


> Also the first glimpse of the Doctor as an angst-ridden war criminal, which is one of my favourite aspects of her.


This passed me by.  What was the scene?


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

I thought it kept up the run of poorly written story hewn from the most cliched of sci fi saved and redeemed by a good cast.  Bradley Walsh is at least 1000% better than I was expecting him to be.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 3, 2018)

Mrs SI has worked out we're now four episodes behind. I can't emphasize how impossible a situation this would have seemed even in with Capaldi. I'm glad you're all enjoying but it appears to have gone the way of The Walking Dead in our house.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 3, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> In other news, it looks like the entirety of the revival has been given permanent fixture status on iPlayer. All 155 episodes and counting, with availability of "over a year" which is the highest it goes.
> 
> BBC iPlayer - Doctor Who



Thanks for posting this, I was going to post that David Tennant's first series in on UKTV PLAY*, well the first 8 episodes, with more coming as they are aired on the 'Drama' channel, on Saturday nights, but this is much, much better! 

I am a little surprised the BBC has done this, as they earn money both for the rights, and their share of profits, being that UKTV is 50% owned by the BBC. 

* UKTV's on demand service, which was added to Freesat back in September, but I only noticed this weekend.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 3, 2018)

Despite dropping from 10.5m to to around 7.25m viewers, it's still holding up well compared to the previous series, which settled down to just over 5m.

Doctor Who Series 10 (2017) UK Ratings Accumulator - Doctor Who TV

Doctor Who Series 11 (2018) UK Ratings Accumulator UPDATED - Doctor Who TV


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

S☼I said:


> Mrs SI has worked out we're now four episodes behind. I can't emphasize how impossible a situation this would have seemed even in with Capaldi. I'm glad you're all enjoying but it appears to have gone the way of The Walking Dead in our house.


I forget it’s been on until I see the urban thread pop up


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I thought it kept up the run of poorly written story hewn from the most cliched of sci fi saved and redeemed by a good cast.


Oh, I don’t agree with that. It was my least favourite story of the run so far. But I still enjoyed it.

I’ve been really pleased that this series has seen actual plots. Stories that have a beginning, a middle and an end, following narrative arcs (in the old fashioned sense), where there’s a journey from stasis, through conflict, to conflict resolution, and finally a new stasis, where you could actually describe the plot to someone who hadn’t seen the episode. This has been a big change from the worst excesses of the Moffat years.

My favourite so far has been the Punjab episode. That was a very well realised plot. And my least favourite has been this. But it still beats almost every Matt Smith or Peter Capaldi episode hands down (though I did like the Bill Potts series).

I have rewatched a few episodes, and I do think the social history etc can stand to be a bit more in the show rather than the tell (the Doctor delivering a history lecture at the end of the Rosa Parks episode was straight out of the William Hartnell style book, but perhaps lacking in the subtlety even younger viewers are used to today), but overall I’ve thought the writing a big improvement. Just turn the social comment-as-exposition-in-dialogue dial down a little is all.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 3, 2018)

Totally agree with every word of that post, danny la rouge.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, I don’t agree with that. It was my least favourite story of the run so far. But I still enjoyed it.
> 
> I’ve been really pleased that this series has seen actual plots. Stories that have a beginning, a middle and an end, following narrative arcs (in the old fashioned sense), where there’s a journey from stasis, through conflict, to conflict resolution, and finally a new stasis, where you could actually describe the plot to someone who hadn’t seen the episode. This has been a big change from the worst excesses of the Moffat years.


Yes, I agree with that.



> My favourite so far has been the Punjab episode. That was a very well realised plot. And my least favourite has been this. But it still beats almost every Matt Smith or Peter Capaldi episode hands down (though I did like the Bill Potts series).


Yes, I agree with that too, at least to some degree.



> I have rewatched a few episodes, and I do think the social history etc can stand to be a bit more in the show rather than the tell (the Doctor delivering a history lecture at the end of the Rosa Parks episode was straight out of the William Hartnell style book, but perhaps lacking in the subtlety even younger viewers are used to today), but overall I’ve thought the writing a big improvement. Just turn the social comment-as-exposition-in-dialogue dial down a little is all.


No, I don't agree with that.  

The problem isn't in the shape of the plotting.  It's in the writing itself.  There are too many elements thrown in higgledy-piggledy without consideration as to whether they enhance the plot or just provide a cul-de-sac that detracts from the main story.  The dialogue is often clunky.  The stories contain too many self-contradictions or things that just don't make sense.  And the building blocks of the story have all been seen a _lot_ of times before by anybody with any vague interest in science fiction.  I think the writing has been pretty poor with the exception of that Punjab story, which, to be fair, was pretty excellent.

Fortunately, the character-building elements and the realisation of those characters by the cast has been really good and that's been enough to carry it.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 3, 2018)

yeah - wasn't one of the best ones last night - I think the concept was just too big (an entire sentient universe) and the resolution a bit meh - but still enjoyable.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> yeah - wasn't one of the best ones last night - I think the concept was just too big (an entire sentient universe) and the resolution a bit meh - but still enjoyable.


This is because they wasted time with pseudo-peril in the shape of flesh eating moths and Kevin Eldons that had nothing to do with the actual story they were trying to tell with 26 minutes.

This is what I mean by it being badly written.  They spent ages on wondering around in caves and had no time to get to grips with the thing it was all actually about.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> This is because they wasted time with pseudo-peril in the shape of flesh eating moths and Kevin Eldons that had nothing to do with the actual story they were trying to tell with 26 minutes.
> 
> This is what I mean by it being badly written.  They spent ages on wondering around in caves and had no time to get to grips with the thing it was all actually about.



should have made him the main baddie - he could have been luring bereaved people into the portal like a multi dimensional kidnapper. Having THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE IN PERIL  always makes for a shit story in my book


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> This is because they wasted time with pseudo-peril in the shape of flesh eating moths and Kevin Eldons that had nothing to do with the actual story they were trying to tell with 26 minutes.
> 
> This is what I mean by it being badly written.  They spent ages on wondering around in caves and had no time to get to grips with the thing it was all actually about.



Inconsistency too. First they need a light and a guide and a piece of string to get through the antizone, then it's fine to just leg it. 

And why did Dad bother to barricade the windows to hoodwink his _blind_ daughter? Is it because the gang wouldn't have sensed mortal peril and stuck their noses in otherwise? That's bad writing, doing shit just because the plot requires it.


----------



## tommers (Dec 3, 2018)

Yes that was a bit odd, “my granny told me about this mythical baddie which happens to be the actual baddie“ but fuck it, just got to let these things slide and enjoy the show.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 3, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I have rewatched a few episodes, and I do think the social history etc can stand to be a bit more in the show rather than the tell (the Doctor delivering a history lecture at the end of the Rosa Parks episode was straight out of the William Hartnell style book, but perhaps lacking in the subtlety even younger viewers are used to today), but overall I’ve thought the writing a big improvement. Just turn the social comment-as-exposition-in-dialogue dial down a little is all.



I can see the logic behind it though. A lot of kids, and adults tbf, won't necessarily know much about the partition of India or King James' obsession with snarks and grumpkins. There was a bit more show than tell with the King James episode though, just a quick visual reference to his 'Daemonologie' which I don't think was flagged up in the script.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 3, 2018)

tommers said:


> Yes that was a bit odd, “my granny told me about this mythical baddie which happens to be the actual baddie“ but fuck it, just got to let these things slide and enjoy the show.



The bit about seven grannies was a classic Doctor Who red herring, something she quite probably made up for effect. All the incarnations have done stuff like that to some extent.


----------



## Cloo (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I tBradley Walsh is at least 1000% better than I was expecting him to be.


 Yes, actually gsv and I agreed that Graham is about the best thing in it. I like the idea of having this sensible dad type going about with the Doctor - especially his point about carrying a sandwich!


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> Having THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE IN PERIL


this happens a lot in doctor who. A lot.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 3, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> this happens a lot in doctor who. A lot.



especially since the reboot. Id put the limit on the extent of peril to a single planet  - or a solar system on special occasions.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> This is because they wasted time with pseudo-peril in the shape of flesh eating moths and Kevin Eldons that had nothing to do with the actual story they were trying to tell with 26 minutes.
> 
> This is what I mean by it being badly written.  They spent ages on wondering around in caves and had no time to get to grips with the thing it was all actually about.


The caves and inhabitants (moths and Eldon) were MacGuffins. They were used to show that it was actually dangerous to get to the alternative reality. This was therefore a measure of how beguiling the alternative reality was. Hanne’s father was willing to make that dangerous journey in order to be with his dead wife.

It isn’t at all unusual for MacGuffins to be entirely dropped once their object of demonstrating character motivation has been achieved. The device is long known, but its name is attributed to Hitchcock. I have a copy of the famous Hitchcock-Truffaut interviews where he talks about this. He’s quite clear that although the characters might care about the MacGuffin for a time, the audience doesn’t need to.

Where I agree with you in this instance though is that the rest of the plot wasn’t quite strong enough to allow the MacGuffin to be dropped without the audience noticing.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

MacGuffins and their discussion, dissection and interaction are not normally the central focus of over 50% of the screen time.  They’re more like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction — something to occasionally be looked at in wonderment as motivation and then immediately put away.

If anything was the MacGuffin in this episode, it was the conscious universe they briefly visited!


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> MacGuffins and their discussion, dissection and interaction are not normally the central focus of over 50% of the screen time.  They’re more like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction — something to occasionally be looked at in wonderment as motivation and then immediately put away.
> 
> If anything was the MacGuffin in this episode, it was the conscious universe they briefly visited!


I agree that it was an unsatisfactory episode.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I agree that it was an unsatisfactory episode.


Because it was poorly written.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Because it was poorly written.


Indeed. I think that’s implicit in what I said from the beginning.


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2018)

Will Graham's ultimate fate be to spend eternity in a conscious universe that looks and sounds like his dead wife?


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

Santino said:


> Will Graham's ultimate fate be to spend eternity in a conscious universe that looks and sounds like his dead wife?


She didn't sound like her, though, because despite having all of Grace's thoughts and feelings and mannerisms and being a perfect replica, she for some reason had not a single iota of care about her precious grandson.


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> She didn't sound like her, though, because despite having all of Grace's thoughts and feelings and mannerisms and being a perfect replica, she for some reason had not a single iota of care about her precious grandson.


The Solitract will reflect on its encounters with humans and be a better, more caring universe next time it appears.


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2018)

Graham will, of course, have to sacrifice his life to earn this ending.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> She didn't sound like her, though, because despite having all of Grace's thoughts and feelings and mannerisms and being a perfect replica, she for some reason had not a single iota of care about her precious grandson.


Solitract grace only purpose was to keep grahame there it had no care for ryan, the same for trine who seemed to be fine with her husband abandoning their blind daughter in the middle of nowhere  so he could be with her.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 3, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed. I think that’s implicit in what I said from the beginning.



Fight!


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Solitract grace only purpose was to keep grahame there it had no care for ryan, the same for trine who seemed to be fine with her husband abandoning their blind daughter in the middle of nowhere  so he could be with her.


It was a messy fudge, is what it was.  On the one hand, the perfect replica.  On the other, massive wholesale fundamental differences of personality


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2018)

the soliwhatsits replicas and world only began to wear at the edges when it had more than one consciousness to mimic/create.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 3, 2018)

Not a fudge , a bit obvious maybe but the only way that grahame would realise that it was not the real grace within the story.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Not a fudge , a bit obvious maybe but the only way that grahame would realise that it was not the real grace within the story.


Yes, this is why it was a shit story.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> the soliwhatsits replicas and world only began to wear at the edges when it had more than one consciousness to mimic/create.


That's the in-story explanation or your retconned one to make sense of the nonsense?


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> That's the in-story explanation or your retconned one to make sense of the nonsense?


It’s literally the story.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Yes, this is why it was a shit story.


Tell me did you hate the frog.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> That's the in-story explanation or your retconned one to make sense of the nonsense?


the doc does mention that its having trouble coping with so many people when it was fine fooling one.
e2a
So bit of both, see also throwaway line from knives man when asked why he was there 'always been here' so right, he is part of the defense mechanism itself.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s literally the story.


I must have missed the bit where it says that the solithingy could only manage to recreate all the thoughts, behaviours and knowledge of two people up to the point where they had to react to something really important to them because now it had to cope with two of those replicas instead of one.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> the doc does mention that its having trouble coping with so many people when it was fine fooling one.
> So bit of both


It's not just a bit of a slip up though, is it?  The replica utterly fails.  Graham is hardly left with a decision to make, because the thing is so obviously not Grace.

You can do a story this way but you can't expect to maintain much in the way of axiopisty by doing so.  It's the edges of the writer that are showing, not the edges of the Solidude.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Tell me did you hate the frog.


I neither hated it nor was delighted by it.  It was just a thing that happened at a point that I was already bored.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 3, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I neither hated it nor was delighted by it.  It was just a thing that happened at a point that I was already bored.


Shame, the frog hate pleases me for some reason.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2018)

I didn't hate any of it.  I like the characters and I like the acting.  I like the small-story plotting.  I just find the stories themseves (excepting the Indian one) rather dull and poorly written, in that they lack focus, the dialogue is clunky, there is little internal logic (to the extent that at times they make the viewer actively work to blind themselves to the flaws), they do too much "tell" rather than "show" and there is no tightness in the script.  The one on Sunday was the most egregious example but the others have suffered too.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 3, 2018)

For me the only real issue has been the editing which has been a bit ropey in places, but not enough to diminish my enjoyment of a series I did not think I'd like, i suppose we all see things in different ways.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2018)

Nah. Didn’t like that one.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2018)

I though there would be more comment.


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## Red Cat (Dec 9, 2018)

I didn't like it either, I was really bored and my mind wandered, I didn't understand it and it seemed to go on and on. My eldest daughter seemed to know what was going on though.


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2018)

I thought it was ok , but nothing compared to previous end of series, and tbh I dont know whats going on most of the time these days


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## D'wards (Dec 9, 2018)

Red Cat said:


> I was really bored and my mind wandered, I didn't understand it and it seemed to go on and on.


This sums up 70% of my Dr Who watching experience as an adult.

I've watched all this series but am not that bothered about it really


----------



## kabbes (Dec 9, 2018)

That was the worst Doctor Who episode I’ve ever seen.  There was nothing to recommend it.  There wasn’t even a story, just an extended final scene lasting 45 minutes. Dull.


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## tommers (Dec 10, 2018)

Why did he have sniperbots? They weren't in the episode he was in earlier.


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## kabbes (Dec 10, 2018)

tommers said:


> Why did he have sniperbots? They weren't in the episode he was in earlier.


Although if we’re going to start picking this episode to pieces, we’re never going to stop.


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## Helen Back (Dec 10, 2018)

What with the bad guy keeping those shrunken worlds you could say they'd landed on something of a pirate planet.


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## kabbes (Dec 10, 2018)

Jesus, I now can’t stop thinking of ways in which that episode was shit.  Plot holes, plot lack of logic, storytelling failures, pacing problems, dialogue nonsense, fuck me.

From minute 1 (in which creatures that can bend the fucking universe can’t stop an SOS, let alone just think the survivor into their lair) to Chekhov’s neural field to the lack of any kind of pause in 45 minutes of breathless exposition to the lack of real support for the Damascene volte face to Tim Shaw’s scenery chewing motivation to everything.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2018)

I didn't watch it cos I've run out of weed, the panning its getting here is not encouraging. I'll still catch it on iplayer tomorrow


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## Santino (Dec 10, 2018)

In Tennant's day the attempt to shrink the Earth would have been accompanied by a few shorts of people in Cardiff looking up at the sky - at first worried, then relieved, plus a shit BBC news report it. And then a whole spin off series about some cunts.


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## kabbes (Dec 10, 2018)

Santino said:


> In Tennant's day the attempt to shrink the Earth would have been accompanied by a few shorts of people in Cardiff looking up at the sky - at first worried, then relieved, plus a shit BBC news report it. And then a whole spin off series about some cunts.


At least that would have given it _some_ sense of peril and connected us a little bit to the things happening.  As it was, it was just a picture of a red mist on a picture of the planet that had as much emotional resonance as a cucumber.  And it all happened in a mad rush and then stopped happening before I could even begin to care about it.


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 10, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I didn't watch it cos I've run out of weed, the panning its getting here is not encouraging. I'll still catch it on iplayer tomorrow



Not even weed can save that one tbh.


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 10, 2018)

kabbes said:


> At least that would have given it _some_ sense of peril and connected us a little bit to the things happening.  As it was, it was just a picture of a red mist on a picture of the planet that had as much emotional resonance as a cucumber.  And it all happened in a mad rush and then stopped happening before I could even begin to care about it.



Not even the gang cared that much. Yaz looked like the earth's destruction was on a par with realising you forgot to return that library book.


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## 03gills (Dec 10, 2018)

I know Doctor Who is supposed to be the hardest job in television, but another gap year after just one series is taking the piss, but I'm not that bummed out about it to be brutally honest, considering just how underwhelming this series has turned out (after starting out so promisingly)

But they can kiss goodbye to any momentum that this series built up, though it's good to see Bradley Walsh & the rest of the companions coming back at least, & three companions _can _work, it just takes a skilled writer to _make _it work. Kerblam! proved that.

Also, whoever forced poor Tosin Cole to do a Sheffield accent really needs to be shot.


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## Sapphireblue (Dec 10, 2018)

the dialogue is just so awful this series. it's not a long show, the doctor doesn't need to re-explain why the monster is bad or what she's trying to fix repeatedly over and fucking over.
the actors are doing their best but i'm only watching it because i like the doctor tbh. it just feels really dumbed down and clunky.


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## D'wards (Dec 10, 2018)

The comments under this are pretty grim


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## 03gills (Dec 10, 2018)

Ratings are back to where they were in Smith's final series, which is good. But the steady downward trend & loss of 4 million or so since the premiere is a bit of a missed opportunity it has to be said. It does feel like a lot of that early momentum has gone now. I feel if the overnights of 8 million + had continued beyond the first few episodes, there'd be more of an impetus from the BBC to get at least _some_ of Series 12 out next year. 

Perhaps something more serialised like Children Of Earth or The Bodyguard (minus the shit ending, of course) could've hooked those extra eyes beyond the first few eps. The first female in the role was bound to draw huge interest, & this was the BBC's last chance to really get Doctor Who back into the zeitgeist & I think they may have blown it unfortunately. 

Again, if they could've gotten a series on at the same time each year for the next few years at least they could see this as something to build on. But we now know that isn't happening.


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## magneze (Dec 11, 2018)

2020, it's just ridiculous. What is point?


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## cupid_stunt (Dec 11, 2018)

That was certainly the worst of this series, what a shame.


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## 03gills (Dec 11, 2018)

Sapphireblue said:


> the dialogue is just so awful this series. it's not a long show, the doctor doesn't need to re-explain why the monster is bad or what she's trying to fix repeatedly over and fucking over.
> the actors are doing their best but i'm only watching it because i like the doctor tbh. it just feels really dumbed down and clunky.



The weird thing about this series is that i don't hate it, but i don't love it either, it just feels sort of,_ there_. 

The episodes are fairly disconnected, a random set of stories that could be in any order. Although that allows a casual viewer to jump on at any point in the series, conversely it also means they can jump _off _at any point as well.

It feels like it's been made for people who don't like sci-fi, as opposed to RTD's first few series, which were made for people who didn't_ think_ they liked sci-fi. I have to say, all the enthusiasm I had for the new production team has quickly evaporated.

I mean I'm not even ranting really, I just don't really feel anything in particular.


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## belboid (Dec 11, 2018)

I thought it was an okay episode, tho probably the weakest of the series. I never quite got why the Ux were worshipping wotsisname. And, while Bradley walsh has been really good overall this series, I didn't think he could quite pull of the 'sod it, I'm gonna kill him) face necessary. I did like that they tried tho


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## Sapphireblue (Dec 11, 2018)

yeah i don't hate it, but if it was a new thing i would probably have given upon it by now. even with the previous doctors since the reboot that i didn't like as much, i still felt that the show was good. but now i quite like the doctor but don't really like the show.


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## lazythursday (Dec 11, 2018)

So horribly disappointing. I had such high hopes, and I think that some of the changes made were absolutely the right choice - but it just wasn't very good as a whole. I like Jodie, I like the characters, the change of tone - but not the rubbish dialogue, the endless exposition, the poor pacing. And while Moffat had given the series arc a bad name with his contorted plots, not having one at all is a huge mistake in my opinion, it means there's no sense of momentum to keep you going through poor episodes.


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## tommers (Dec 11, 2018)

belboid said:


> I never quite got why the Ux were worshipping wotsisname.



I think he just turned up at the right time. They said something about a prophecy. But then they always do.


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## CNT36 (Dec 11, 2018)

I liked the first two historical episodes that used a minimum of scifi elements but used them well. The little nudges not a doomsday weapon hitting a bus in Rosa and some aliens just being in the area to do a good turn sub plot on the partition episode worked very well and both times put the TARDIS crew in an unenviable position in regards to historical events. The King James episode was actually weakened by the forgetable monster of the week shit.


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## ginger_syn (Dec 12, 2018)

I really liked the episode, a fun adventure to watch  good to see the companions end the series alive and happy, the music was as always excellent as was jodie whittaker, beautifully filmed again and it's definatly one of my favourites of this series .
I'll probably come back and say  more about the series as a whole when I've not got a pounding headache also looking forward to the new years day special and I'm really hoping the big bad is not who a lot of people think it is


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## Epona (Dec 12, 2018)

One thing I am immensely grateful for, as someone with an auditory processing disorder that makes speech more difficult to "hear", is that this season dialed back the overly loud background music - I could actually HEAR and LISTEN to the dialogue this season, which is really fantastic 

I still had the subtitles up of course (they never get turned off for any show!) but it was really good to be able to actually hear some bits of the dialogue instead of really loud music swelling up over it all as it has done in previous seasons.  Maybe they paid attention to my complaints about it (and I know I wasn't the only one who let them know it was a problem).


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## kabbes (Dec 12, 2018)

Epona said:


> One thing I am immensely grateful for, as someone with an auditory processing disorder that makes speech more difficult to "hear", is that this season dialed back the overly loud background music - I could actually HEAR and LISTEN to the dialogue this season, which is really fantastic
> 
> I still had the subtitles up of course (they never get turned off for any show!) but it was really good to be able to actually hear some bits of the dialogue instead of really loud music swelling up over it all as it has done in previous seasons.  Maybe they paid attention to my complaints about it (and I know I wasn't the only one who let them know it was a problem).


I noticed that too, but it seemed to be back to the bad old days for the awful final episode.


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## Epona (Dec 12, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I noticed that too, but it seemed to be back to the bad old days for the awful final episode.



I didn't notice in the last episode, possibly because I had the washing machine running in the kitchen during it.  I have noticed an overall vast improvement from previous seasons though, for which I commend them


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## joustmaster (Dec 12, 2018)

This series wasn't great. It feels like I'll not remember any of it in a few months.

And I think the doctors acting is crap, too. Like a bland cbeebies version of the tenant one. Not sure why she was made to act it like that.


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## 03gills (Dec 13, 2018)

This is what Jodie Whittaker's acting looks like when she's not being given pile o' shite scripts that force her to play it "kooky"...


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## ginger_syn (Dec 14, 2018)

tommers said:


> Why did he have sniperbots? They weren't in the episode he was in earlier.


Because he built them, well the ux did they were developed by the stenza.


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## tommers (Dec 14, 2018)

ginger_syn said:


> Because he built them, well the ux did they were developed by the stenza.


Did the Stenza build them in the second episode? I don't remember them being mentioned. They were just out in the desert in that planet.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 14, 2018)

Do we know she was "forced" to act the Doctor that way?


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## joustmaster (Dec 14, 2018)

S☼I said:


> Do we know she was "forced" to act the Doctor that way?


Aren't actors usually directed?


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 14, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> Aren't actors usually directed?


I dunno, I'm not sure how it works. Presumably they have some agency in how a part is played, how they auditioned, etc? 

My oldest friend is an actor but we've never talked about the mechanics and theory of it, only the famous people he's met


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## ginger_syn (Dec 14, 2018)

tommers said:


> Did the Stenza build them in the second episode? I don't remember them being mentioned. They were just out in the desert in that planet.


Yes they were developoed by the stenza on desolation as weapons


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## 03gills (Dec 14, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> Aren't actors usually directed?



Yeah, broadly this. 

The actor obviously can & will bring their own interpretation to the part & will obviously be allowed some input, but the show runner & director have final say & because Jodie has previous with Chibnall on Broadchurch, I'd imagine she probably trusts the creative choices he made for her character (even if I think he's made a huge mis-step)

We're a long way from the days of Tom Baker hurling abuse at the scriptwriters & directors, lol.


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## spanglechick (Dec 15, 2018)

An actor’s job is a large part interpretation, but more than anything the script is king.  Stanislavski tells us that everything stems from the Given Circumstances (the details in the text).  

And some of the dialogue has been weak this series.  

But I don’t mind her Doctor.  Yes it’s similar to Tennant but without the almighty ego and arrogance of his Doctor.  Whittaker is altogether less bombastic.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 15, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> But I don’t mind her Doctor.  Yes it’s similar to Tennant but without the almighty ego and arrogance of his Doctor.  Whittaker is altogether less bombastic.



I think she's a bit closer to Smith's Doctor - a good thing imo - but she's not yet had enough of chance to deploy the necessary "I'm a Time Lord and don't you forget it" steeliness and alien-ness yet. That's down to the writing. There doesn't seem to be any coherent vision for this Doctor yet

I also think is an over-abundance of companions. Graham is great, obviously, but the other two have been poorly used. Yaz has potential as a trained police officer, but that's barely been touched on, and Ryan? Well, it would help maybe if the actor playing him could act.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 16, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> Aren't actors usually directed?



actors  usually bring their own characterisation to the role - the director might ask them to emphasise or dial down a particular aspect, or might just give them free rein. Their job is to be the "outside eye" and use their judgment on weather what the actor is doing works. So a particular actor might be playing a obsessive loner and gives him a bit of a twitch and the director might say "love the twitching! do it more" or "sorry - not sure about the twitchyness - go for calm control - its more disturbing" 
Actors generally wouldn't want to work with a director who told them explicitly how to do everything. 
whitickers portrayal of the doctor is almost certainly her own creation.


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## CNT36 (Dec 17, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Ryan? Well, it would help maybe if the actor playing him could act.


There were moments where his acting hit hard. A few otherwise forgotten quiet moments, dialogue scenes where he got dyspraxia dead on. I'm not  talking about the parts where the script hits you around the head with a ladder.


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## 03gills (Dec 20, 2018)

It's funny, i've heard some say that Chibbers is trying to echo early Hartnell in terms of the format & tone.

But the difference back then is that a series consisted of roughly 39-45 episodes, arranged as 8-10 multi part serials per season (i think it stayed that way until Pertwee, where they cut the number)

The modern equivalent would be something like series 11, but with a ''part 2'' for every story (which, broadly speaking, they all needed)

However, considering how much Chibnall has struggled with just 11 episodes...


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 1, 2019)

Well that was a bloody corker. 

Loved the line about the internet & mobile phones being down. 

What are we going to do now? Have a conversation! What?


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 1, 2019)

Nice to see the sadly under-used Chekhov's Microwave (and Oven) plot device deployed.

That was fun. I slightly dreaded another Dalek episode, but that was a pretty decent twist on the usual.

I loled at the clueless National Security Helpline, but am worried about what the hell's happened to UNIT. #brexit


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 1, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I loled at the clueless National Security Helpline, but am worried about what the hell's happened to UNIT. #brexit



Overseas funding withdrawn, nowt to do with Brexit.

Everything to do with with Trump, the cunt.


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## ginger_syn (Jan 1, 2019)

That was good, thoroughly enjoyed that episode.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 1, 2019)

The sound seemed a bit fucked


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## T & P (Jan 1, 2019)

Best (or at least, most enjoyable) Dr Who episode in fucking years, hands down. Would have been even better if they’d cut down a bit on the father-son relationship scenes, but still brilliant overall.

And the badass Daleknator was ace too


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## Baronage-Phase (Jan 1, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Loved the line about the internet & mobile phones being down.
> What are we going to do now? Have a conversation! What?



Story of my Christmas and New year's.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 2, 2019)




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## Helen Back (Jan 2, 2019)




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## tommers (Jan 2, 2019)

I liked the whole series.  When it finished yesterday my daughter asked if it was coming back and if the woman was still going to be the doctor.


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## Cloo (Jan 2, 2019)

Liked this one a lot - action, laughs (UNIT austerity, family who have to talk to each other) and a bit of the old emotions (though not at the expense of story, as in some previous Xmas specials). And Daleks, obv. Thumbs up from us.


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## kabbes (Jan 2, 2019)

It had some good lines in it but my honest view was that it was all a bit dull.  Just a rush from one scene to the next without any actual plot development. These Chinballs episodes as whole feel like he can never be bothered with acts I or II and just dives straight into act III each time.


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## dessiato (Jan 4, 2019)

I've binge watched this, finally, I'm not convinced this is a good Dr. But the  am enjoying it anyway. I think there's too much Dr Who baggage which colours my judgement.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2019)

I liked it, steampunk dalek and the puppeteer stage suitably creepy. I did laugh when the dalek took off and sprouted missiles tho, built that in a farmers toolshed eh. Should have been on xmas day


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## Santino (Jan 4, 2019)

The Dalek repairing its own armour in a shed was an echo of the Doctor knocking up a new screwdriver in episode 1.


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## rekil (Jan 4, 2019)

If reconnaissance daleks are more powerful than regular daleks why don't they just make regular daleks "1" more powerful.


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## Kaka Tim (Jan 4, 2019)

copliker said:


> If reconnaissance daleks are more powerful than regular daleks why don't they just make regular daleks "1" more powerful.



"but these daleks go up to 11"


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## 03gills (Jan 11, 2019)

Still haven't bothered to watch the NYD special, lol.


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## Santino (Jan 14, 2019)

In this year's Doctor Who annual, it is revealed that the Queen is a lizard.

 

I'm intrigued as to how far up the BBC this decision went, if indeed anyone thought about it at all.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2019)

Santino said:


> In this year's Doctor Who annual, it is revealed that the Queen is a lizard.
> 
> View attachment 158701 View attachment 158702
> 
> I'm intrigued as to how far up the BBC this decision went, if indeed anyone thought about it at all.


It's a double bluff.


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## Santino (Jan 14, 2019)

The Queen's meant to be descended from werewolves anyway.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2019)

Santino said:


> The Queen's meant to be descended from werewolves anyway.


But she's all right now.


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## CNT36 (Jan 15, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> But she's all right now.


She's not Free.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 24, 2019)

will you look at that. For most of my life Tom Baker was unassailable as the Peoples Doctor, but no more. Both tennant and baker of course enjoyed long bastard runs and were very good in some excellent stories.

Also I remembered Malcom Hulke today, the commie who was in at the ground floor with the program


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## CNT36 (Jan 24, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> will you look at that. For most of my life Tom Baker was unassailable as the Peoples Doctor, but no more. Both tennant and baker of course enoyed long bastard runs and were very good in some ecellent stories.
> 
> Also I remembered Malcom Hulke today, the commie who was in at the ground floor with the programme


Let's abandon the democratic experiment.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 24, 2019)

CNT36 said:


> Let's abandon the democratic experiment.


poor old sylvester mcoy there below even mgann who has had two screen visits only .  I rated Battlefield, Remembrance etc


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## CNT36 (Jan 24, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> poor old sylvester mcoy there below even mgann who has had two screen visits only .  I rated Battlefield, Remembrance etc


Troughton so low is shocking as well. I guess it comes down to who those polled are familiar with.


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## Sapphireblue (Jan 25, 2019)

i'm of an age where i don't remember the ones from when i was young and watched all of the reboot. i'd say the reboot ones are in the right order there. loved tennant, liked eccleston a lot, i thought i'd hate Matt Smith but he grew on me, not fussed about capaldi or whittaker.


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## Plumdaff (Jan 25, 2019)

Troughton suffers from so much of his stuff being wiped, but I'm still surprised he's so low. I've always enjoyed what I've seen of him.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 25, 2019)

Sapphireblue said:


> i'm of an age where i don't remember the ones from when i was young and watched all of the reboot. i'd say the reboot ones are in the right order there. loved tennant, liked eccleston a lot, i thought i'd hate Matt Smith but he grew on me, not fussed about capaldi or whittaker.


I'd have put Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi above Peter Davidson, and drop Jodie Whittaker below Paul McGann. The rest seems pretty reasonable, especially Sylvester McCoy


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 25, 2019)

If Capaldi had had better stories I reckon he'd have been better than Smith.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 25, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> If Capaldi had had better stories I reckon he'd have been better than Smith.


I agree. He's a much better actor. Shame he didn't get a chance to show it.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 25, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> If Capaldi had had better stories I reckon he'd have been better than Smith.


I reckon he _was_ better than Smith. 

In the above poll, if Capaldi and Smith were swapped, and Troughton and Davidson swapped, I’d be reasonably happy with the order.


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## spanglechick (Jan 25, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> If Capaldi had had better stories I reckon he'd have been better than Smith.


Reading this, I realise I would have absolutely loved to see Capaldi do Smith’s storylines.  Would have weirded out all the “foxy amy” shit and made it nonsense irrelevance.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 25, 2019)

CNT36 said:


> I guess it comes down to who those polled are familiar with.


still seems an oddly high placement for two-times mgann tho, I suppose people really did like his audio adventures.


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## CNT36 (Jan 25, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> still seems an oddly high placement for two-times mgann tho, I suppose people really did like his audio adventures.


There are some good ones but all the dregs done good even shit Baker.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 25, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> will you look at that. For most of my life Tom Baker was unassailable as the Peoples Doctor, but no more. Both tennant and baker of course enjoyed long bastard runs and were very good in some excellent stories.
> 
> Also I remembered Malcom Hulke today, the commie who was in at the ground floor with the program


How the hell is Troughton below Colin Baker??? Even McCoy for that matter. 
My daughter loves Troughton (Mushroom Head she calls him)


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 25, 2019)

McGann Would be a hard one to place. His Movie was shit, but was that his fault? The shirt they did pre the war doctor was an excellent performance that would have perhaps made him one of the greatest doctors had he actually had any adventures.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 26, 2019)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> How the hell is Troughton below Colin Baker??? Even McCoy for that matter.
> My daughter loves Troughton (Mushroom Head she calls him)


McCoy Was worse than shite.


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## Epona (Jan 26, 2019)

Tom Baker was my Doctor.  I couldn't say whether he was "best" or not, but he is the one I feel the most association with.  Jon Pertwee was also in my time, but too much earth-based action and not enough Pyramids of Mars.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 26, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> McCoy Was worse than shite.


second best Doctor over all, just ask phantom uncle about him


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 26, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> second best Doctor over all, just ask phantom uncle about him


I can't, he's dead.
But it's obvious what you know when the rest of the world thinks McCoy was shite.


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## belboid (Jan 26, 2019)

McCoy wasn't anything like as bad as I remembered, when I watched a couple of the stories again.  Admittedly, they were the best reviewed episodes of his stint. Ace though. Ace was absolutely awful. Calling the Doc 'Professor' was quite cute, but she was a bloody awful actress.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 26, 2019)

I think he'll be critically reappraised by later generations and found to be one of the greats.


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## Chz (Jan 26, 2019)

belboid said:


> McCoy wasn't anything like as bad as I remembered, when I watched a couple of the stories again.  Admittedly, they were the best reviewed episodes of his stint. Ace though. Ace was absolutely awful. Calling the Doc 'Professor' was quite cute, but she was a bloody awful actress.


Oh, I was going to argue but I was coming from the place that the _character _was great. It's true that I like Sophie, but she's not a great actress. She's been much better, like Colin Baker, at the radio plays.


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## discobastard (Jan 29, 2019)




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## 03gills (Jan 31, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I agree. He's a much better actor. Shame he didn't get a chance to show it.



I mean after series 11 i'd give my right arm for even the weakest Moffat script, but yeah although series 5 was pretty much perfect, it's clear he struggled with the workload early on & for me his writing took a noticeable dive mid way through series 6 & never fully recovered. He did have some bangers after that (heaven sent, day of the doctor & the series 10 finale to name a few) but they became more infrequent & spaced apart as time went on & i think he'd rung himself out like a dishcloth by the end of Capaldi's era. 

I feel in retrospect rather than slowly cutting the number of episodes over time, they should've just made the 18 month gap official (which seems to have been the average wait between series since 2008 anyway) at least then he'd have time to craft a decent series. But by the same token, Chibnall had nigh on 3 years to prepare for series 11 & it was still largely shit, so who knows?


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## krtek a houby (Mar 26, 2019)

Nice little feature here on the history of Doctor Who and its ideology

Dr Who the leftist


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