# Violence spreads to Woolwich and Bromley



## Bungle73 (Aug 8, 2011)

According to the BBC.  FFS my bro works in Bromley!


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## Maggot (Aug 8, 2011)

Bromley?  Middle classes are joining in!


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## danny la rouge (Aug 8, 2011)

Maggot said:


> Bromley? Middle classes are joining in!


Can someone do me a map of London with a class key?  Use the colours from Monopoly, if you like.


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## ouchmonkey (Aug 8, 2011)

yeh, I wasn't aware Bromley was middle class
and I used to work there


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## Maggot (Aug 8, 2011)

It's one of the most middle class areas of London.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 8, 2011)

my boss lives out there  it's so middle class it hurts


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## London_Calling (Aug 8, 2011)

Yep, but it's got the right kind of shops.


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## ivebeenhigh (Aug 8, 2011)

http://www.blottr.com/crime/breaking-news/woolwich-trashed-looting-gathers-pace


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## ska invita (Aug 8, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Can someone do me a map of London with a class key? Use the colours from Monopoly, if you like.



helps a bit


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## cliche guevara (Aug 8, 2011)

I was in Penge yesterday, I can't see the people of Penge rioting.


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## London_Calling (Aug 8, 2011)

But kids in Penge have the choice of Croydon, Bromley or Lewisham.


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## not-bono-ever (Aug 8, 2011)

T|BF, Bromley centre could do with a bit of remodelling, so maybe some good can come out of this


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## danny la rouge (Aug 8, 2011)

ska invita said:


> helps a bit


Cheers, except I think Hampstead votes Labour, and - more importantly - I don't know what the names of the areas are...

Where is Tottenham, Hackney, Lewisham, Peckham, Croydon, Clapham Junction?


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## alien nation (Aug 8, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> I was in Penge yesterday, I can't see the people of Penge rioting.


Appartently a shop has been looted in Penge and some shops closed early this evening.  Quite a few sirens earlier, but seems quiet now.  Lots of peope making their way into Penge for a nose at 8pm this evening when i went to Costcutter!


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## T & P (Aug 8, 2011)

Unless The Glades shopping mall has an Israel-style security wall erected pronto, it's going to be done up every which way.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 8, 2011)

OK, C4 has an interactive map: http://www.channel4.com/news/london-riots-interactive-timeline-map

Anyone local want to give me a rundown on the broad class make-up of these areas?


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## kenny g (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...47698011.82166.153714541324516&type=1&theater barking


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## ferrelhadley (Aug 9, 2011)

Edited wrong thread


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## London_Calling (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, C4 has an interactive map: http://www.channel4.com/news/london-riots-interactive-timeline-map
> 
> Anyone local want to give me a rundown on the broad class make-up of these areas?


It makes no sense to. London's housing is very mixed, the kids are moving around on very good transport and push bikes, they're already organised in their local gangs - and communicate privately, and they mostly want particular shops.

So, for example, they cleaned out the shops in Brixton yesterday.... so today is somewhere else.


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## Maggot (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, C4 has an interactive map: http://www.channel4.com/news/london-riots-interactive-timeline-map
> 
> Anyone local want to give me a rundown on the broad class make-up of these areas?


Why do you wanna know?

London's burning!


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## kenny g (Aug 9, 2011)

that c4 map only shows a small amount of what is happening


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> It makes no sense to. London's housing is very mixed


OK, that's a fair point. I really don't know London, so I'm relying on local knowledge here.  (I was responding to Maggot's comment about Bromley being middle class).  However, sure there are areas with higher concentrations of socio-economic groups?

From the outside,  my perception is that Hampstead is predominantly wealthy, for example.  Chelsea also. (Proportionately speaking).  Other place names really don't mean anything to me.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Maggot said:


> Why do you wanna know?
> 
> London's burning!


Ah, Maggot.  It was you who piqued my interest.

I guess what I'm wondering is how much each conflagration is local and spontaneous, and how much it is a travelling event.


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## kenny g (Aug 9, 2011)

Very difficult to say Danny. The areas I know it was a bit of both.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheers, Kenny.  Yeah, I suppose that makes sense.

It's a bit frustrating trying to build an accurate picture based purely on media reports!


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## Maggot (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah, Maggot. It was you who piqued my interest.
> 
> I guess what I'm wondering is how much each conflagration is local and spontaneous, and how much it is a travelling event.


That's a good question. I think it's a chain reaction, but driven more by opportunism than by poverty and disengagement.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Maggot said:


> That's a good question. I think it's a chain reaction, but driven more by opportunism than by poverty and disengagement.


How can you tell what role disengagement has or hasn't played?  Not being arsey, just wondering how you can gauge that?


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## where to (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> I guess what I'm wondering is how much each conflagration is local and spontaneous, and how much it is a travelling event.



very curious on this too. surely some involved are taking part in various of these, distances between some are short and times between them at times longer.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Ken Livingstone on the BBC just asked about rioting in "apparently affluent areas" and saying that some of these areas have high levels of youth unemployment, some the second generation of unemployed.


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## Maggot (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> How can you tell what role disengagement has or hasn't played? Not being arsey, just wondering how you can gauge that?


Well, it's impossible to guage the exact amount, but the fact that it has spread to areas populated by priveleged middle classes, and the amount of looting, suggests it is more about opportunism than anger.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Maggot said:


> Well, it's impossible to guage the exact amount, but the fact that it has spread to areas populated by priveleged middle classes, and the amount of looting, suggests it is more about opportunism than anger.


Ken says some of these areas have high youth unemployment...


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## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2011)

There's nothing to say that any disturbances in Bromley are perpetrated by the folk hailing from there. What the fuck is there to smash up in Catford? Perhaps disaffected youth from there have descended on the their middle class utopia of a neighbour.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 9, 2011)

woolwich rioting (labelled as liverpool for some reason):
http://youtu.be/QIZV4YYQ2P8
i went to college in the building that's taken from and drank in the earl of chatham which you can spot briefly - think it got torched.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> There's nothing to say that any disturbances in Bromley are perpetrated by the folk hailing from there. What the fuck is there to smash up in Catford? Perhaps disaffected youth from there have descended on the their middle class utopia of a neighbour.


That's the kind of insight I'm looking for.  (Because I've no idea what there is or isn't to smash up in Catford).


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## Belushi (Aug 9, 2011)

My brother tells me that a lot of the Woolwich rioters came through the foot tunnel, he lives round that part of London but I'm not sure where he got that from.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Belushi said:


> My brother tells me that a lot of the Woolwich rioters came through the foot tunnel, he lives round that part of London but I'm not sure where he got that from.


Where would that mean they were coming from?


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## Maggot (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Ken says some of these areas have high youth unemployment...


I like Ken, but can't help thinking he's using the riots as a political football.


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## Belushi (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Where would that mean they were coming from?



East London.


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## clicker (Aug 9, 2011)

Catford must be the quickest loot....a sports shop,blockbusters, argos....then just a host of pound shops/charity shops/bookies and chicken shops.....I guessed the looters would be buoyed up and nowhere to loot and it'd either be eltham or bromley they'd go to...both joining on....can't see any point in the shops that have been emptied in catford restocking until this is all over....no fires which is good....but the little shits are going to end up killing someone.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Belushi said:


> East London.


OK, but isn't Woolwich in East London? (I'm going on a map I looked at just a moment ago...).


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## clicker (Aug 9, 2011)

no woolwich is south london...south east to be exact...but good transport links take you over the river from it to east london.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

clicker said:


> no woolwich is south london...south east to be exact...but good transport links take you over the river from it to east london.


 
OK, so this foot tunnel comes from even further east?


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## Belushi (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, but isn't Woolwich in East London? (I'm going on a map I looked at just a moment ago...).



South East, there's a foot tunnel and ferry that connect it to East London across the River, where there's an area called North Woolwich.  It's a very old and very deprived area of London.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheers.


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## clicker (Aug 9, 2011)

but the rioting is in woolwich in the south....not sure anything happens in north woolwich...


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## Orang Utan (Aug 9, 2011)

have you read the last few posts clicker?


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## clicker (Aug 9, 2011)

yes...i wrote one of them...danny asked if woolwich was east london as he saw it on a map...i explained that altho north woolwich is in east london...the riots are going on in woolwich in the south...so he would know which part of woolwich the riots are, because he is trying to map them out...or have i got it completely wrong and the riots are in north woolwic??


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## ferrelhadley (Aug 9, 2011)

Mates in Plumbstead say the Woolwich Weatherspoons has been burned down, nothing official


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## stupid kid (Aug 9, 2011)

Woolwich has been totally done over. Wetherspoons burned down, I've heard pretty much everything hi tech or shoe shop on the high street has been raided, I know gamestation has. There was no police line, saw a video of about 10 riot police protecting a road that needed about 30. DLR smashed up, Wimpy and KFC apparently, and the Job Centre and Town Hall. Can only imagine that huge new building with full glass fronting is fucked now.


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## stupid kid (Aug 9, 2011)

ferrelhadley said:


> Mates in Plumbstead say the Woolwich Weatherspoons has been burned down, nothing official



http://twitpic.com/635di9

that's about as official as it gets. My mate saw a bloke walking down his road with an xbox. I know Gamestation has been done in and I assume game as well.


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## Kaka Tim (Aug 9, 2011)

But in London, even the 'middle class' areas are going to have large social housing estates within them.


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## ExtraRefined (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't think anything much has happened in Bromley. The only first person reports on Twitter play down the damage and suggest just a couple of broken windows. Of course if the rumour mill is to be believed the entire Glades has been razed to the ground and the hammer and sickle has been raised over the town hall.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9...Bromley_High_Street_and_Bromley_South_closed/


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## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> But in London, even the 'middle class' areas are going to have large social housing estates within them.


OK, this is the kind of information I need.  I hear TV and radio reporters talking about "affluent areas".  But they're just not looking very deeply, is that it?  They're surprised at the innovation of not rioting on your own doorstep, but nipping down the mainstreet to loot?


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## Bungle73 (Aug 9, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> I don't think anything much has happened in Bromley. The only first person reports on Twitter play down the damage and suggest just a couple of broken windows. Of course if the rumour mill is to be believed the entire Glades has been razed to the ground and the hammer and sickle has been raised over the town hall.
> 
> http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9...Bromley_High_Street_and_Bromley_South_closed/


I just heard from my brother, who works in Bromley, and apparently only Primark was attacked.


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## dynamicbaddog (Aug 9, 2011)

just saw this status update on f/b from a friend who lives there

_Woolwich Update: Wetherspoons, Wilkosons are burnt to a cinder, a bunch of shops along Powell Street trashed. A couple of burnt out cars.
New build areas and Woolwich Centre untouched! (also job centre untouched)
So many people walking and standing on the streets of Woolwich, and actually talking to each other! (Community spirit seems to better than usual.)                  _
Theres a pub near the market called The Elephant & Castle, I really like that pub, hope it's still standing...


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## Belushi (Aug 9, 2011)

dynamicbaddog said:


> Theres a pub near the market called The Elephant & Castle, I really like that pub, hope it's still standing...



Thats the one that wouldn't serve us for being students lol.


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## Maggot (Aug 9, 2011)

Have just been to Bromley. There's a few boarded up shops, including Primark. they are all on the Northern section of the High street up from Market Square. What's bizzare is that some have used these boards with garish paintings on to cover up their shops.


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## Geri (Aug 9, 2011)

They burnt down a Wetherspoons! OMG.


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## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

Maggot said:


> Have just been to Bromley. There's a few boarded up shops, including Primark. they are all on the Northern section of the High street up from Market Square. What's bizzare is that some have used these boards with garish paintings on to cover up their shops.



based on the reports that the Met's boarding-up teams had run out of materials early this morning, I imagine they're using whatever they can get their hands on.


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## alien nation (Aug 9, 2011)

Maggot said:


> Have just been to Bromley. There's a few boarded up shops, including Primark. they are all on the Northern section of the High street up from Market Square. What's bizzare is that some have used these boards with garish paintings on to cover up their shops.


Is the first one the Star and Garter?


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## ExtraRefined (Aug 9, 2011)

Bromley tonight from someone on twitter;


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## Maggot (Aug 9, 2011)

alien nation said:


> Is the first one the Star and Garter?


Yes, don't know how much damage was done. The were closing up the doors when I was there.


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## alien nation (Aug 10, 2011)

I note the difference with the boarding up in Bromley and Penge to that seen in Ealing!  Penge shops boarded up with cardboard - no lovely new woodchip professional fitted .  Those pics of yours are great!  I will see i can get a few photos today too - Service through hatches, closed shops, the one or two open shops gaurded!


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## Maggot (Aug 15, 2011)

Woolwich and Bromley aren't getting much media attention. TBF in Bromley there were no fires and damage didn't look  that extensive, but Woolwich was seriously trashed.


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