# Morris Dancing close to extinction



## miniGMgoit (Jan 5, 2009)

So it appears that Morris Dancing is about to become extinct due to young folk being to embarrased to do it.

I for one can not understand how any young person could be embarrassed about their heritage but there you go.

If I were still living in Devon I would totally go in for this.

More info here and here


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## tufty79 (Jan 6, 2009)

so would i.

one of my favourite music videos contains morris dancing:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5OM82LTsU0

'as serious as your life'


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## newme (Jan 6, 2009)

> Morris Dancing close to extinction



WOOHOO


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## october_lost (Jan 6, 2009)

Amount of antiquated reactionaries we have in this country you would have thought they'd be willing to hijack it for their own ends. Obviously not.

Would be a shame to see it go, but not my cup of tea.


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## derf (Jan 6, 2009)

Move up to yorkshire. loads of them at it up there and no fucker calls them a bunch of nancy boys either. Mostly 'cos they are big hairy fuckers who would wrap you round the maypole as soon as look at you.
Drink like fish as well. All the boozers were fighting to get them to have their clubs there as they drank so bloody much.
Sod all chance of it stopping up there unless someone bans beer.


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## purplex (Jan 6, 2009)

I worked with a morris dancer and he was a top bloke, just an excuse to get away from the other half and drink lots of real ale. Its a very male pastime.


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## tarannau (Jan 6, 2009)

Who's heritage is it anyway? Not mine for a fucking start.

Besides, isn't there a train of thought that the focus on Morris dancing and other folk numbers as part of a 'proper' and widespread English cultural identity is a little false. IIRC some Victorian busybody wanted to catalogue and reteach these folk dances as it gave a fashionable English heritage and bespoke pastoral idyll. A fair few dances were either invented, overstated or plainly corrupted/faked for this nonce and his perverse 'educational' mission. And as much as they tried to breathe new life in these silly processions they failed miserably. Good.


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## boohoo (Jan 6, 2009)

Some urban folks went to morris dancing...


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## Sunspots (Jan 6, 2009)

I went to a wonderful pagan wedding ceremony on the winter solstice the other week.  There were supposed to be Morris dancers, but they cancelled at the last minute.  

<phew!>


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## internetstalker (Jan 6, 2009)

I used to go out with a girl who's dad was a morris dancer.

It took her 6 months before she told me as she was so embarrassed


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## teuchter (Jan 6, 2009)

I saw some Morris dancing for the first time in Norfolk last summer. A very curious pastime.

I'd be sad if it just died out because I like anything slightly eccentric and unfashionable.

I was quite intrigued to find out that it is traditionally only danced by men. I was wondering what the reasons for this are. I can't think of many other traditional dance cultures that are like this. Usually the function of traditional dancing is a social one, to bring people together. 

I occasionally partake in Scottish country dancing which can be a lot of fun and a lot of the dances are designed so that everyone dances with and gets to know everyone else at some point by means of partner-swapping.

But Morris dancing seems the opposite, like a spectator sport that you aren't allowed to join in with and doesn't even allow the sexes to mix. Does it say something about "the English" I wonder?


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## Sunspots (Jan 6, 2009)

I've just remembered this article.

Morris dancing: goth-style!


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## Crispy (Jan 6, 2009)

(wikis a bit)

It's got roots in a Spanish sword dance, so it was never intended as a 'social' pastime, more a display or pageant. And it's no older than C15th.


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## boohoo (Jan 6, 2009)

Morris dancing class in london:

http://www.efdss.org/csh_classes.htm#efdss

In primary school my teacher was a morris dancer and she taught us some morris dancing lessons. We even had a go at banging sticks together. I think it is traditional to be men only but there are female only morris dancing troupes. 

Morris dancing is not really a partner type dance but it's not the only type of dance that isn't partner based.

My dad, who's American, loves morris dancers - we have some cine footage from the 1970s of lambeth country show with morris dancers.


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## teuchter (Jan 6, 2009)

Crispy said:


> (wikis a bit)
> 
> It's got roots in a Spanish sword dance,



Actually this rings a bell. I seem to remember something about the name coming from "Moorish" but that may be a myth.


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## Sunspots (Jan 6, 2009)

When I was at junior school in the seventies, 'country dancing' was a compulsory part of the weekly curriculum. 

This probably explains my mild antagonism towards things like Morris dancing...


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## big eejit (Jan 6, 2009)

Funnily enough I was talking to my partner's uncle over Christmas. He's a Morris man and he was telling me that they've recently had loads of new recruits.

A pic I took of some Morris men in Swanage. The young son has apparently decided to end it all rather than join the Morris:


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## xenon (Jan 6, 2009)

Sunspots said:


> When I was at junior school in the seventies, 'country dancing' was a compulsory part of the weekly curriculum.
> 
> This probably explains my mild antagonism towards things like Morris dancing...




We had to do that at primary school in the 80's. Dosi fucking dow, round the square and all that bollox.


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## pogofish (Jan 6, 2009)

derf said:


> Move up to yorkshire. loads of them at it up there and no fucker calls them a bunch of nancy boys either. Mostly 'cos they are big hairy fuckers who would wrap you round the maypole as soon as look at you.
> Drink like fish as well. All the boozers were fighting to get them to have their clubs there as they drank so bloody much.
> Sod all chance of it stopping up there unless someone bans beer.



This - New recruits are probably afraid of the liver damage.

*Never* get into a sesh with morris dancers!


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## El Jefe (Jan 6, 2009)

the problem is the prohibition against circumcised male members.



































apparently you have to be a complete prick to be a morris dancer


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## wiskey (Jan 6, 2009)

xenon said:


> We had to do that at primary school in the 80's. Dosi fucking dow, round the square and all that bollox.



yup. 

I thought the thing about morris dancing was that if your dad didn't do it you couldn't?


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## panpete (Jan 6, 2009)

Morris dancing takes over our town for a weekend in May.
They are very prevelant in the streets here at that time of year.
They did me a financial favour once, 
A sextet of them were dancing, and they kept moving back and forth, and blocking my way to the cash machine.


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## scifisam (Jan 6, 2009)

Crispy said:


> (wikis a bit)
> 
> It's got roots in a Spanish sword dance, so it was never intended as a 'social' pastime, more a display or pageant. And it's no older than C15th.



Oh, only C15th? That's so recent!



Sunspots said:


> When I was at junior school in the seventies, 'country dancing' was a compulsory part of the weekly curriculum.
> 
> This probably explains my mild antagonism towards things like Morris dancing...



I loved country dancing at school. The best was 'Oranges and Lemons' where you got to chop off your classmates' heads. 

If you are ever dragged up to dance with a nun at a Scottish boarding school in front of a hundred Portuguese and Italian teenagers, because you're British so should know such dances, you'll be grateful for any inkling whatsoever of how such dancing works.


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## pogofish (Jan 6, 2009)

xenon said:


> We had to do that at primary school in the 80's. Dosi fucking dow, round the square and all that bollox.



Thats barn/square dancing.  American rehash of traditional dancing.

If they were teaching you that as your tradition, I'd think of asking for the years back!


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## Zaskar (Jan 7, 2009)

The BNP are very keen to keep morris dancing alive, and pole dancing, I mean maypole dancing.

But only if the bladders come from asylum seekers I think.


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## gaijingirl (Jan 7, 2009)

I looked up the "find a Morris dancing group" bit on the link in the OP and there's quite a few in London (where I live)... but for men only it seems... 


As for the "traditional" thing - you don't have delve very hard into most cultures to spot the invention and reinvention of "tradition".  I could bang on about aspects of this in Japan till the cows come home.  15th Century is pretty good going to be honest.


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## tarannau (Jan 7, 2009)

!5th Century is probably overstating it in most cases. The country dancing lessons that some urbanites have endured are almost certainly a legacy of that well meaning Victorian posho who went around the country with a clipboard and some operatives, talking to the locals and documenting their supposed dance steps for use in future patriotic country dancing lessons.

There are many of accounts of locals refusing to cooperate or playing tricks on the visiting posho. I've got visions of sniggering yokels hopping ineptly on one leg, flicking fingers and thumbing their nose at the visitors, "_Yep, this is the Lancashire greeting dance, just like what we'd do. Honest_


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## gaijingirl (Jan 7, 2009)

tarannau said:


> !5th Century is probably overstating it in most cases. The country dancing lessons that some urbanites have endured are almost certainly a legacy of that well meaning Victorian posho who went around the country with a clipboard and some operatives, talking to the locals and documenting their supposed dance steps for use in future patriotic country dancing lessons.
> 
> There are many of accounts of locals refusing to cooperate or playing tricks on the visiting posho. I've got visions of sniggering yokels hopping ineptly on one leg, flicking fingers and thumbing their nose at the visitors, "_Yep, this is the Lancashire greeting dance, just like what we'd do. Honest_




But it's stuff like that that results in "traditions".... when is a tradition "pure" anyway?  Like I say - look at almost any tradition and you can track such changes - some much more blatant than what you quote above.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2009)

My cousin is a 'radical' morris dancer - they do crazy aggressive dangerous moves that the other 'sides' daren't do that sometimes result in injury. I wish I was joking.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2009)

So I guess there is room for modernisation and innovation to keep the pastime alive


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## pogofish (Jan 7, 2009)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> My cousin is a 'radical' morris dancer - they do crazy aggressive dangerous moves that the other 'sides' daren't do that sometimes result in injury. I wish I was joking.



That sounds like proper traditional morris dancing.  There should always be a risk of serious injury or GBH.

The nice-nicey stuff is the modern, "radical" departure.


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## ajdown (Jan 7, 2009)

They've already tried repackaging it for the 'yoof' and strangely didn't take off.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=B2_dS7HWSrw


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## 1927 (Jan 7, 2009)

I reckon bombscare should give it a try, I'd pay money to see it happen!


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## bluestreak (Jan 7, 2009)

so who wants to form a brixton morris then?


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## gaijingirl (Jan 7, 2009)

During my brief stint as a pagan (post goth, pre raver ) I discovered the Rochester Sweeps festival which has shit loads of morris dancing - some of it is really quite full on!


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## xenon (Jan 7, 2009)

pogofish said:


> Thats barn/square dancing.  American rehash of traditional dancing.
> 
> If they were teaching you that as your tradition, I'd think of asking for the years back!




We didn't get any historical context to it. . Just used as a low impact in doors form of PE.

It was incipid, little embarrassing and  lame. Slightly preferable to the weekly humiliation that was rounders.


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## xenon (Jan 7, 2009)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> My cousin is a 'radical' morris dancer - they do crazy aggressive dangerous moves that the other 'sides' daren't do that sometimes result in injury. I wish I was joking.



Radical Morris Dancer?

Brilliant


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## TomPaine (Jan 7, 2009)

tarannau>


> Who's heritage is it anyway? Not mine for a fucking start.



I think that's a bit of a negative attitude. But fair enough if it isn't your cup of tea. However it is part of England cultural heritage, like it or not. I'm sure it ignores you as much as you dislike it though so I wouldn't worry .
Dance and music have been an integral part of nearly every culture on this planet and I think it would be sad to see a pass time like this vanish. 



> Besides, isn't there a train of thought that the focus on Morris dancing and other folk numbers as part of a 'proper' and widespread English cultural identity is a little false. IIRC some Victorian busybody wanted to catalogue and reteach these folk dances as it gave a fashionable English heritage and bespoke pastoral idyll. A fair few dances were either invented, overstated or plainly corrupted/faked for this nonce and his perverse 'educational' mission. And as much as they tried to breathe new life in these silly processions they failed miserably. Good.



Wow that sounds horribly bitter you know?
I presume this train of thought will be saying the same of native Canadian First Nation culture? I have to say the train of thought espoused is off the mark. What you are probably alluding to above is much what happend with Scottish culture during the 19thC when the idea of the "noble savage" became popular, and highland culture was re-written for the Victorian upper classes.
Sir Walter Scott was fairly pivotal in this romaticisation of Scottish culture. I'm sure areas of English culture experienced the same, even Morris dancing (I believe some of the discussion regarding fertility dances may have been the result of the Victorians) had been around for a long time before.

Crispy>


> It's got roots in a Spanish sword dance, so it was never intended as a 'social' pastime, more a display or pageant. And it's no older than C15th.



I believe this (and the wiki article) to be incorrect. I spent some time discussing with a friend who is a Dr of English, and another chap who is an expert on dark ages through medieval life. Through the research one of them had done, they believed it actually went back to at least the late dark ages.

The Spanish idea came I believe because of the term "Moorish" however the research they discussed with me was that they believed the term to come from the old English phrase for Moor. Back then people carried a Moor pike which was a large stick used to help cross the peat bogs in the Moors. The idea was the dancing simply adopted the "Moor pike" as part of its routine and was then passed on down through history and adapted by each new generation. 

Sword dancing also exists Northumberland and Scotland as well, not just Spain. 

Long may it all continue, things like this make the world a little bit more of an interesting place, especially for folks who like to travel.


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## i-am-your-idea (Jan 7, 2009)

big eejit said:


> Funnily enough I was talking to my partner's uncle over Christmas. He's a Morris man and he was telling me that they've recently had loads of new recruits.
> 
> A pic I took of some Morris men in Swanage. The young son has apparently decided to end it all rather than join the Morris:



lol!!


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## miniGMgoit (Jan 8, 2009)

Great post TomPaine!

I grew up with Morris Dancers always being at our village fate. One of them was my Chemistry Teacher.

I love all this stuff and it has begun to mean more since moving to Australia where I am daily reminded that I am English and will never be a true member of the Australian socity (am I bothered?)

I think it would be a massive shame if this died out. It *IS* a part of our culture wether people like it or not.

And yes to a Brixton Morris Dancers Union. That I would love to see


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## ajdown (Jan 8, 2009)

Hmmm a programme idea for "75 Live" perhaps?  I'm sure I have sufficient music.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2009)

big eejit said:


>



That poor ginger kid is being shunned by the rest of them. Bastards!


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## scifisam (Jan 8, 2009)

TomPaine said:


> tarannau>
> 
> 
> I think that's a bit of a negative attitude. But fair enough if it isn't your cup of tea. However it is part of England cultural heritage, like it or not. I'm sure it ignores you as much as you dislike it though so I wouldn't worry .
> ...



Excellent post.


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## ziconess (Jan 23, 2009)

I had a friend who did a bit of morris dancing when he was younger and he fucking loved it. 

This may have been related to the gargantuan amounts of alcohol they drank - injuries were quite common I believe.


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