# Johnny Depp Libel Case



## savoloysam (Jul 25, 2020)

Posting in here because it's against The Sun and in the UK courts.

Anybody else in here following? As I posted in The Guardian thread. The media really have a done a job going to town doing a job on him. Virtually all the evidence points to Amber Heard being the abuser in this relationship.

I've been following the case very closely this week and it looks quite likely that the Johnny is about to get result he wants and deserves.

Murdoch news shitting themselves and no doubt preparing for a big smear in the Sundays.


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## Marty1 (Jul 25, 2020)

savoloysam said:


> Posting in here because it's against The Sun and in the UK courts.
> 
> Anybody else in here following? As I posted in The Guardian thread. The media really have a done a job going to town doing a job on him. Virtually all the evidence points to Amber Heard being the abuser in this relationship.
> 
> ...



Was talking to my mum earlier today and she mentioned this but only due to Jeff Bezos of all people somehow involved.

Something about someone who worked for Depp saying that Bezos would occasionally turn up to visit Depp’s wife - but only when Depp wasn’t there


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## marshall (Jul 25, 2020)

Bezos? No, I think it that was Elon Musk.


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## weltweit (Jul 25, 2020)

I haven't really been following in detail but I did think he had to be pretty sure of himself Depp to take this case in the first place. I will be interested to see the result.


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## savoloysam (Jul 25, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Was talking to my mum earlier today and she mentioned this but only due to Jeff Bezos of all people somehow involved.
> 
> Something about someone who worked for Depp saying that Bezos would occasionally turn up to visit Depp’s wife - but only when Depp wasn’t there



Apparently nights were spent with Elon Musk and ANother. I'm less interested in the tabloid side of it. 

I believe Johnny is innocent of any physical attacks and there's enough evidence to suggest the reverse is true. I don't really care that he is one of the "Hollywood privilege" Nobody male or female deserves to be domestically abused and then victim blammed while the abuser is put on some kind of pedistal.


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## savoloysam (Jul 25, 2020)

weltweit said:


> I haven't really been following in detail but I did think he had to be pretty sure of himself Depp to take this case in the first place. I will be interested to see the result.



I agree with you. Some quarters are attacking him for airing his dirty laundry but I'm pretty sure for him he wants the truth to be told and to clear his name and hopefully save his career.


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## likesfish (Jul 25, 2020)

Two rich idiots being stupid and the sun who cares who UN's.


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## LDC (Jul 25, 2020)

Fantastic. A thread I couldn't care less about, where everyone who's posted on it so far I have on ignore. Is that some kind of record?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 25, 2020)

I would imagine the pair of them are entitled cunts, so fuck ‘em.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 25, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> You are ignoring content from this poster



Wut?


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## Raheem (Jul 25, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Fantastic. A thread I couldn't care less about, where everyone who's posted on it so far I have on ignore. Is that some kind of record?


Think it might be a Pet Shop Boys b-side.


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## killer b (Jul 25, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Think it might be a Pet Shop Boys b-side.


Perfect


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## weltweit (Jul 25, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Fantastic. A thread I couldn't care less about, where everyone who's posted on it so far I have on ignore. Is that some kind of record?


Charming, I am tempted to ignore you back just for balance!


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## Raheem (Jul 25, 2020)

killer b said:


> Perfect


Now that one was a record. Late 80s.


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## LDC (Jul 25, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Charming, I am tempted to ignore you back just for balance!



Actually I slightly exaggerated for comic effect, I don't have you on ignore.


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## two sheds (Jul 25, 2020)

How to instantly insult everyone you _don't _have on ignore


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## girasol (Jul 25, 2020)

I've been following it closely and the picture emerging is of a man who drank and took too many drugs and did violent things to his wife, who stood up to him, tried to defend herself, inflaming the situation. I find it incredible that he denies attacking her but admits drinking/drugs binges and apologising to her (by text) after a couple of incidents. (There were 14 mentioned, in total, iirc) 

I mean, how doesn't he even doubt his actions when he was so wasted he could have blacked out? Anyone who's been in an abusive relationship involving drugs knows the Jekil and Hyde character scenario. She didn't even take his money after divorce. All gone to charity. He's so entitled, deluded and sees himself as a victim, he doesn't think he'd do such terrible things. But I'm betting he has. Because that's what happens, time and time again. Being rich and famous doesn't make people immune to it.


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## freakydave (Jul 25, 2020)

Seems like there is no evidence of Depp attacking her but quite a lot of evidence of her attacking him. She sounds like a right scumbag, she also tried to shame her other two famous boyfriends to get money out of them


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## xenon (Jul 25, 2020)

I don't care...

I started watching London Fields on Prime the other day. I thought, have they really made a film of that Amis book. Anyway, I turned it off after about 15 minutes but not after noting, they're both in it.

That's all I got for ya.


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## AmateurAgitator (Jul 26, 2020)

Two rich twats with too much money and fame. Don't trust or care about either of em.


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## savoloysam (Jul 26, 2020)

Well that escalated quicky.


girasol said:


> I've been following it closely and the picture emerging is of a man who drank and took too many drugs and did violent things to his wife, who stood up to him, tried to defend herself, inflaming the situation. I find it incredible that he denies attacking her but admits drinking/drugs binges and apologising to her (by text) after a couple of incidents. (There were 14 mentioned, in total, iirc)
> 
> I mean, how doesn't he even doubt his actions when he was so wasted he could have blacked out? Anyone who's been in an abusive relationship involving drugs knows the Jekil and Hyde character scenario. She didn't even take his money after divorce. All gone to charity. He's so entitled, deluded and sees himself as a victim, he doesn't think he'd do such terrible things. But I'm betting he has. Because that's what happens, time and time again. Being rich and famous doesn't make people immune to it.



Both of them took drink and drugs so your point there is mute.

The so called evidence that he was physically abusive has been debunked AFAIK. She even appeared on UK TV one day after she claims she was beaten black and blue looking "photoshop perfect"

By all accounts the reports from the court this week show her changing testimony to have more holes in than swiss cheese.

Then of course there are her admissions that she assaulted him. Recordings of her taunting him for always running away when she gets violent are freely available in the public domian. Police testimonies that she was seen assaulting one of her ex's in publc. The new video of her sister talking about them fighting it goes on and on.


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## freakydave (Jul 26, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> Two rich twats with too much money and fame. Don't trust or care about either of em.



Johnny Depp was brilliant when he was young I'm quite upset that he has become this sad case. You always hope with these kind of stories that they will come out of it and do more great work


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## Yossarian (Jul 26, 2020)

I hope Johnny Depp wins the case and is awarded such a massive amount in damages that the Sun is forced to cease publication. After that, he can fuck off.


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## NoXion (Jul 26, 2020)

I gotta love the people posting in this thread to show just how little they care. Yeah right, you cared enough to make a post, didn't ya? You're not fooling anyone but maybe yourselves.

If it's true that Depp has been subject to domestic abuse, then I hope he finds justice or at least recompense. And fuck the Sun.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2020)

Always fuck the sun.

Is his Harry Potter spinoff any good?


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## editor (Jul 26, 2020)

Yossarian said:


> I hope Johnny Depp wins the case and is awarded such a massive amount in damages that the Sun is forced to cease publication. After that, he can fuck off.


My thoughts exactly.


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## Reno (Jul 26, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> Always fuck the sun.
> 
> Is his Harry Potter spinoff any good?


They are a bit like what the Hobbit films were to the LOTR films were, though not as bad, just unnecessary. While he's set up to be the main antagonist, Depp doesn't really have a lot of screen time in the two films made so far. He's ok, but his various addiction issues seem to have caught up with him, it's like the light has gone out.


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## girasol (Jul 26, 2020)

NoXion said:


> I gotta love the people posting in this thread to show just how little they care. Yeah right, you cared enough to make a post, didn't ya? You're not fooling anyone but maybe yourselves.
> 
> If it's true that Depp has been subject to domestic abuse, then I hope he finds justice or at least recompense. And fuck the Sun.



It would be great if he was telling the truth. However, the vast majority of domestic abusers are men. Isn't it 4 women in the UK alone get killed every week by men? (more in the US). When I hear his evidence and hers I feel hers rings true, it feels much closer to reality than his.

It was clearly a toxic relationship, but women tend to be more verbal in their abuse. Even if she was cheating, and apparently so was him, the physical violence is not justified. I can't believe he even got away with all these assaults without getting arrested but that's a whole other story.

She has admitted hitting him when she was scared and defending herself. Any woman who's been in a situation like that knows how terrifying it is dealing with someone under the influence of drugs, but there comes a point you have no option but fight back.


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## Sasaferrato (Jul 26, 2020)

savoloysam said:


> Well that escalated quicky.
> 
> 
> Both of them took drink and drugs so your point there is mute.
> ...



Mute - silent. Moot - the word you wanted.


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## Serge Forward (Jul 26, 2020)

When I saw the name Amber Heard, I was thinking Amber Rudd and wondering when she's been married to Johhny Depp


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## Raheem (Jul 26, 2020)

I keep reading Johnny Depp as Johnny Vegas and wondering when he was married to Douglas Hurd.

It's a complex case.


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## Idris2002 (Jul 26, 2020)

I keep reading Johnny Depp as Johnny Wadd, and wondering when he was married to Amber Waves.

(this is the guy who was in 21 Jump Street, right?)


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## Raheem (Jul 26, 2020)

My partner keeps reading Johnny Marr as Andrew Marr, and wondering when it was that Andrew Ridgeley was married to Kevin Rudd. I've told her to get an exemption from jury duty.


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## Raheem (Jul 26, 2020)

I should clarify that my partner is actually very bright and apologise for channelling Peter Bone there a bit.


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## maomao (Jul 26, 2020)

I hate cases like this. No casual observer has really heard the evidence in enough detail to form a reliable opinion. Even then there's room for doubt or it wouldn't be in court. Most (by a long long way) domestic abuse is perpetrated by men but being falsely accused of it, even in semi-jest on a bulletin board, can be very upsetting.


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## Serge Forward (Jul 26, 2020)

It Johnny Depp had been married to Amber Rudd, it would have been a make-believe pirate married to an actual pirate.


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## redsquirrel (Jul 26, 2020)

Serge Forward said:


> When I saw the name Amber Heard, I was thinking Amber Rudd and wondering when she's been married to Johhny Depp


Now I would be all over the tabloids for that breakup


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## Argonia (Jul 26, 2020)

Really difficult in cases like this to decide one way or the other - it's one person's word against another.


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## Serge Forward (Jul 26, 2020)

Argonia said:


> Really difficult in cases like this to decide one way or the other - it's one person's word against another.


I think you're not really entering into the spirit of this thread


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 26, 2020)

A couple of points :

A) Depp is quite an anglophile so it surprises me he's so upset by the Sun story. Anyone in the Uk knows it's the gutter press and can't be relied on
B) Why is he clogging up our courts system that has gone into meltdown during COVID with so many cases delayed?


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 26, 2020)

.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 26, 2020)

Argonia said:


> Really difficult in cases like this to decide one way or the other - it's one person's word against another.


No it isn't.   It's the tape recordings, the therapist notes, other evidence and the testimonies and the cross-examinations.  

According to them, so far as far as I can see, all this is on Heard.   She's been the abuser imo.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 26, 2020)

DexterTCN said:


> No it isn't.   It's the tape recordings, the therapist notes, other evidence and the testimonies and the cross-examinations.
> 
> According to them, so far as far as I can see, all this is on Heard.   She's been the abuser imo.



Says the man that thinks the convicted rapist, Mike Tyson, is a modern day hero.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 26, 2020)

DJWrongspeed said:


> B) Why he is clogging up our courts system that has gone into meltdown during COVID with so many cases delayed?


There was a piece in the Guardian with some lawyers complaining that their clients, with actual current domestic violence and access cases, couldn't get court dates whereas this guy  can.

Though I've also read more than one legal type saying that actually the backlog from covid is just a blip on top of the existing backlog from the Tories having fucked it. The government has made a big deal out of it of course, as you'd expect.


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## Numbers (Jul 26, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Says the man that thinks the convicted rapist, Mike Tyson, is a modern day hero.


A conviction always being a truth of guilt.


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## girasol (Jul 26, 2020)

DJWrongspeed said:


> A couple of points :
> 
> A) Depp is quite an anglophile so it surprises me he's so upset by the Sun story. Anyone in the Uk knows it's the gutter press and can't be relied on
> B) Why he is clogging up our courts system that has gone into meltdown during COVID with so many cases delayed?



If he wins he gets a lot of money, and he's basically bankrupt.


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## girasol (Jul 26, 2020)

DexterTCN said:


> No it isn't.   It's the tape recordings, the therapist notes, other evidence and the testimonies and the cross-examinations.
> 
> According to them, so far as far as I can see, all this is on Heard.   She's been the abuser imo.



On the first week, when JD was giving evidence it did sound that way, this week has been a very different story.  For every nasty story Johnny Depp comes out with, there's a counter story by Amber.  But of course, this is nothing more than  HUGE PR war.

Nobody really knows the truth right now, so it's became about which experiences resonate the public the most.  I have never met a woman who has lied about domestic abuse, but I have met abusive, addicted men who felt they were victims even though they were inflicting mental and physical pain.  They felt they were being attacked, they were controlling and terrifying and life threatening for a fraction of the time and regular nice people most of the time.  So, I'm inclined to believe her.

Just found this and, well, yeah... The fight to clear Johnny Depp’s name exposes an altogether nastier agenda | Catherine Bennett


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 26, 2020)

I've been following this slightly more than I normally would because of the unusual balance of testimony, but really, who the hell knows - all of this is being filtered through lawyers and then journalists.

I will say "fuck the Sun" however. They are no friends of domestic violence victims and actively make things worse (see the recent JK Rowling shit for the latest over many decades).


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## JimW (Jul 26, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There was a piece in the Guardian with some lawyers complaining that their clients, with actual current domestic violence and access cases, couldn't get court dates whereas this guy  can.
> 
> Though I've also read more than one legal type saying that actually the backlog from covid is just a blip on top of the existing backlog from the Tories having fucked it. The government has made a big deal out of it of course, as you'd expect.


Is that to do with it being libel rather than a prosecution for abuse though? (Don't know, just wondered)


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 26, 2020)

JimW said:


> Is that to do with it being libel rather than a prosecution for abuse though? (Don't know, just wondered)


Tbh I don't really know either - my understanding is that there's no inherent priority of cases within specific types of court, but that's it. This is the Guardian piece in question btw:









						Star treatment for Depp trial branded ‘galling’ by lawyers amid huge backlog
					

Barristers query why court time is allowed during Covid-19 when many urgent family hearings are held remotely




					www.theguardian.com


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## Mogden (Jul 26, 2020)

It has been mostly tweeted live by this chap.



			https://twitter.com/nickwallis
		


I would never claim to know what goes on behind closed doors but it appears to me Depp is a drunk, sometimes drugged buffoon with a lack of self confidence, despite appearances, and makes do with humour to cover his insecurities. He does not appear to me someone who revels in physical abuse but I can imagine his tongue can be sharp on occasion. That's no reason for someone to be physically abusive to him though. The accounts from Winona and Vanessa Paradis err on his side. Given his Winona/Wino Forever tattoo, I can't see that this is a new development to his personality so he's always been a bit of a mouthy cunt.

Heard on the other hand has a history of histrionics, if accounts by exes are to be believed, and even her own sister and Depp's security have commented on her physical behaviour.

Yes Depp is a pretty chap, alas his personality isn't to me, but I'd relish it putting the Sun under and maybe it will snowball into other cases being brought against papers like the Daily Fail too.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 26, 2020)

Disney has already cancelled Depp.  So obviously he had no choice but to go to court and clear his name from the filthy Sun.   And hopefully make a bankrupting amount of money from it and end Dan Wooton's career.  Then sue fucking Disney too.


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## Thora (Jul 26, 2020)

He might be able to clear his name as a "wife beater" but he's laying bare his whole existence as a rather pathetic, spolit old drunk/drug addict.  Not really a heart throb Disney star anymore, or even a fun party animal.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 26, 2020)

Thora said:


> He might be able to clear his name as a "wife beater" but he's laying bare his whole existence as a rather pathetic, spolit old drunk/drug addict.  Not really a heart throb Disney star anymore, or even a fun party animal.


None of it's exactly flattering to him is it - though really it's not great news either.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2020)

Loved JD for years, esp in Ed Wood, Edward Scissorhands, Benny and Joon etc. His acting and on-screen presence was magnetic. 

That said, if he has done what's alleged, then he can fuck off. It's tough when those you admire turn out to be shits. There's almost a feeling of betrayal. But wouldn't want to be blindly defending them, either. Because it's not you who's the victim, the one who has been physically abused.


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## D'wards (Jul 26, 2020)

The fantastic comedian, and pal of Depps, wrote this when the allegations were first made. She began to sue then abandoned it.









						Johnny Depp Is Being Blackmailed by Amber Heard - Here's How I Know (Guest Column)
					

Actor's friend, comic Doug Stanhope, says that Heard was "threatening to lie about him publicly in any and every possible duplicitous way if he didn't agree to her terms"



					www.thewrap.com


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## Raheem (Jul 26, 2020)

I get the impression most people think Depp will win the case, and for all I know that's perfectly right and just.

It's disheartening, though, that the impression will be given of a powerful man being given the benefit of the doubt. It will probably be unwarranted (after all, the case is primarily about the Sun's behaviour, rather than his), but it will happen anyway. And it will serve to give female victims of dv a little less confidence in the justice system, as well as giving men's rights types a talking-point.

So we all lose. Not because of anything Depp or Heard may or may not have done, or because the verdict is wrong, but just because exaggerated importance is given to celebrity trials.


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## D'wards (Jul 26, 2020)

He filed for divorce after she pooed in his bed, calling it "an oddly fitting end to the marriage" 😬


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## Raheem (Jul 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> He filed for divorce after she pooed in his bed, calling it "an oddly fitting end to the marriage" 😬


For some reason, I'm hearing that in Woody Guthrie's singing voice.


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## maomao (Jul 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> The fantastic comedian, and pal of Depps, wrote this when the allegations were first made. She began to sue then abandoned it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stanhope tried to take the rap for Louis CK as well didn't he? Kind of makes him an unreliable witness on this one.


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## LiamO (Jul 26, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Says the man that thinks the convicted rapist, Mike Tyson



Hmmmm.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 26, 2020)

LiamO said:


> Hmmmm.


From the Scottish indy thread...


cupid_stunt said:


> Dexter, a defender of convicted rapist Mike Tyson, says all you need to know about him.


Either he hates Scots or Blacks...I'm not sure.   I'm guessing both.


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## scifisam (Jul 26, 2020)

It's only as big news as it is now because there's so little other celeb gossip. The poor paparazzi can only get distance shots of famous people wearing masks while walking their dogs. 

My phone gives me headlines about the Depp libel trial every bloody day, which is why I'm responding to this thread (plus boredom). I'm not going to click on them or read the details - it's the private lives of two strangers. The headlines and this thread make it seem like they were both abusive but nobody outside of the two of them will ever really know.

And yeah, I agree with others - coming at a time when domestic violence is heightened, this is really not helpful to anyone who has been subjected to it. Yeah most people won't have their non-violence related faults displayed in the media, but it's a reminder that their friends and family might well end up hearing about them if they try to fight back through the courts.



DexterTCN said:


> From the Scottish indy thread...
> 
> Either he hates Scots or Blacks...I'm not sure.   I'm guessing both.



Do you defend Mike Tyson or not?


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## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2020)

100 pages


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## editor (Jul 27, 2020)

DexterTCN said:


> From the Scottish indy thread...
> 
> Either he hates Scots or Blacks...I'm not sure.   I'm guessing both.


No, you don't get a free pass to go around accusing people of 'hating blacks' based on zero actual evidence.


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## freakydave (Jul 27, 2020)

maomao said:


> Stanhope tried to take the rap for Louis CK as well didn't he? Kind of makes him an unreliable witness on this one.



Louis CK was also a victim of tabloids. He committed no actual crimes and the big 'secret' about him was that he was a guy who was obsessed with masturbation


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## editor (Jul 27, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Says the man that thinks the convicted rapist, Mike Tyson, is a modern day hero.


A little less ad hominem all round might help this thread stay afloat.  Not that I'm a fan of Mike Tyson in any way at all.


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## freakydave (Jul 27, 2020)

editor said:


> A little less ad hominem all round might help this thread stay afloat.  Not that I'm a fan of Mike Tyson in any way at all.



18 year old Mike Tyson not just winning but completely beating up all of the established pros is one of the best sports things in pro sports.


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## editor (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> 18 year old Mike Tyson not just winning but completely beating up all of the established pros is one of the best sports things in pro sports.


I'm happy you enjoyed it, but it still has very little to do with the Johnny Depp libel case.


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## maomao (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Louis CK was also a victim of tabloids. He committed no actual crimes and the big 'secret' about him was that he was a guy who was obsessed with masturbation


Masturbating in front of people  without consent is usually a crime. I hope I'm never sat next to you on the bus.


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## freakydave (Jul 27, 2020)

maomao said:


> Masturbating in front of people  without consent is usually a crime. I hope I'm never sat next to you on the bus.



well i definitely wouldn't come up to a hotel room with me drunk at a comedy show


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## freakydave (Jul 27, 2020)

Sorry, I don't think that I'm helping or even enjoying this thread


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## Bwark (Jul 27, 2020)

savoloysam said:


> Posting in here because it's against The Sun and in the UK courts.
> 
> Anybody else in here following? As I posted in The Guardian thread. The media really have a done a job going to town doing a job on him. Virtually all the evidence points to Amber Heard being the abuser in this relationship.
> 
> ...


Been looking at this. I think he will win.


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## maomao (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> well i definitely wouldn't come up to a hotel room with me drunk at a comedy show


But should I come round your place for a career improving 'writing session'? Or maybe you'd just like to knock one out while talking to me on the phone? Which is also a crime btw.


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## freakydave (Jul 27, 2020)

maomao said:


> But should I come round your place for a career improving 'writing session'? Or maybe you'd just like to knock one out while talking to me on the phone? Which is also a crime btw.



It's really pretty boring and not relevant to this thread at all. I don't mind if you are angry at Louis CK, I'm a fan of his but doesn't mean that you have to be.


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## maomao (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> It's really pretty boring and not relevant to this thread at all. I don't mind if you are angry at Louis CK, I'm a fan of his but doesn't mean that you have to be.


I thought he was very funny, watched every live show, all five series of Louis and even sat through Horace and Pete. I think the whole point is that his work doesn't excuse his behaviour. Which Doug Stanhope knew about.


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## Sue (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> well i definitely wouldn't come up to a hotel room with me drunk at a comedy show


You'd be asking for it, eh? You're fucking vile, freakydave and that's nothing to do with being a fan of the man or not, it's to do with you being an apologist for an abusive man.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 27, 2020)

This thread


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## Reno (Jul 27, 2020)

One reason why Louis CK's abusive behaviour is deplorable is because in his work he so often dealt with male/female relationships where he walks right to the line where it becomes offensive. In his work it appears he never stepped over that line, when in his private life he did. That now makes his comedy unwatchable for me, simply can't laugh at the man anymore.


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## maomao (Jul 27, 2020)

Reno said:


> One reason why Louis CK's abusive behaviour is deplorable is because in his work he so often dealt with male/female relationships where he walks right to the line where it becomes offensive. In his work it appears he never stepped over that line, when in his private life he did. That now makes his comedy unwatchable for me, simply can't laugh at the man anymore.


Couldn't agree more but maybe CK needs (or needed) his own thread. Only brought him up to point out the absurdity of a character reference from Stanhope.


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## D'wards (Jul 27, 2020)

There is a lot of anger about this as it appears Heard abused the #metoo, #believewomen and #ibelieveher movements for her own ends. 

She hired a private investigator to get dirt on depp - he interviewed 100 people over 3 years and could not find anyone who would say a bad thing about him. He is generally regarded as a sweet, generous and kind hearted man.
Lots had bad things to say about Heard though...


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## Mogden (Jul 27, 2020)

D'wards said:


> There is a lot of anger about this as it appears Heard abused the #metoo, #believewomen and #ibelieveher movements for her own ends.
> 
> She hired a private investigator to get dirt on depp - he interviewed 100 people over 3 years and could not find anyone who would say a bad thing about him. He is generally regarded as a sweet, generous and kind hearted man.
> Lots had bad things to say about Heard though...


That's it isn't it. Putting aside the stupidity of having the case heard now when many people suffering at the hands of an abuser are not getting their case seen, there's not really been a rumour mill about Depp like there was, say, with Savile or OJ Simpson.

Maybe I'm biased because I have beef with Asia Argento and what she did to Bourdain but she also exploited the me too campaign.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 27, 2020)

Mogden said:


> Putting aside the stupidity of having the case heard now when many people suffering at the hands of an abuser are not getting their case seen...



This is a civil case in the civil division of the High Court, so wouldn't delay hearings concerning abuse, a criminal offence, which would normally be heard in a Magistrates' or Crown Court.


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## Mogden (Jul 27, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> This is a civil case in the civil division of the High Court, so wouldn't delay hearings concerning abuse, a criminal offence, which would normally be heard in a Magistrates' or Crown Court.


Good to know. I'm a relevant novice with judicial matters.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 27, 2020)

What sickens me about this whole business is the press involvement in the first place.

It is inevitable, in a lot of domestic violence cases, that a lot of the evidence is going to be of the "he said/did, she said/did" variety, which is bad enough as it is.

But when a newspaper chooses to act as judge and jury, and - apparently - has gone to great lengths to find support for the views of one party in the relationship, something has gone badly, and disgustingly, wrong. So now, the behaviour of the parties in the relationship finds itself again brought into the public eye in a way which can do little except reignite past resentments, which it certainly appears to have been very effective in doing, and a rehashing of the whole "he said, she said" saga, this time in a libel court.

Maybe my views on this are coloured by the fact that, having exited a coercive and controlling - though, thank goodness, not physically violent - relationship, I can only shudder to imagine what it would be like for the minutiae of that relationship to be put under the microscope in the public eye, particularly in an adversarial setting like a newspaper report, or courtroom.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the actual situation, and there's no way we can ever be sure of the truth of that, I just don't think that it should be acceptable for newspapers to dig the dirt in this way, whatever their motivation. Which I doubt is any more about truth than it is to sell more newspapers.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 27, 2020)

The "wife-beater" allegation has been very damaging to Depp - both personally and professionally, so if he wins I hope its another huge nail in the coffin of The Scum and That Cunt Wootton.
Spiteful, evil, nasty and vindictive. And that's their better attributes.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 27, 2020)

D'wards said:


> The "wife-beater" allegation has been very damaging to Depp - both personally and privately, so if he wins I hope its another huge nail in the coffin of The Scum and That Cunt Wootton.
> Spiteful, evil, nasty and vindictive. And that's their better attributes.


When I was a young adult, there was still something of a light-hearted attitude towards domestic violence (along with child sexual abuse, bullying, and racism ). I'm very glad that we've moved on some way from that, but the flipside (as with child sexual abuse, bullying, and racism) is that the power of such allegations is increased to the point that they can be weaponised against people. And scumrags like the S*n are past masters at this kind of double standard - only too happy to call out wife beaters and nonces, while being utterly unconcerned with the victims of such behaviours, beyond their potential to be used as a stick to beat whoever the S*n has decided they're weighing in against this week.


----------



## freakydave (Jul 27, 2020)

Sue said:


> You'd be asking for it, eh? You're fucking vile, freakydave and that's nothing to do with being a fan of the man or not, it's to do with you being an apologist for an abusive man.



He did ask twice and they said yes. It's still creepy and I can understand why the women regretted it, but of course they should have some responsibility since they hung out with him and then said it was ok for him to do his fetish. 

I actually think that people like you who will just call someone 'vile' who they don't even know for having a different opinion on a tabloid news issue are pretty toxic but whatever


----------



## existentialist (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> He did ask twice and they said yes. It's still creepy and I can understand why the women regretted it, but of course they should have some responsibility since they hung out with him and then said it was ok for him to do his fetish.
> 
> I actually think that people like you who will just call someone 'vile' who they don't even know for having a different opinion on a tabloid news issue are pretty toxic but whatever


We're heading off-topic here, but, in a culture which (still) largely normalises the exploitation of women, "he did ask" isn't really much of a get-out clause, when you're talking about what is, by any standard, pretty damn sleazy behaviour on the part of any man. And it'll get you short shrift here on Urban: I might not see eye-to-eye with the more hardline feminist elements here on Urban, but our views diverge more on the degree of their responses than the facts behind them. And making excuses for people who abuse or exploit women, or who make jokes about it, isn't going to win you many friends.


----------



## Sue (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> He did ask twice and they said yes. It's still creepy and I can understand why the women regretted it, but of course they should have some responsibility since they hung out with him and then said it was ok for him to do his fetish.
> 
> I actually think that people like you who will just call someone 'vile' who they don't even know for having a different opinion on a tabloid news issue are pretty toxic but whatever



This isn't about 'having a different opinion on a tabloid news issue', it's about you making excuses for someone who did something sleazy and exploitative and abusive. In his own words:

'At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn't a question. It's a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. '









						Louis CK admits sexual misconduct allegations are true
					

The US comedian say the "stories are true" in a frank statement addressing allegations against him.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Louis CK was also a victim of tabloids. He committed no actual crimes and the big 'secret' about him was that he was a guy who was obsessed with masturbation


In front of other people. It's not exactly the done thing in the workplace.


----------



## izz (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> He did ask twice and they said yes. It's still creepy and I can understand why the women regretted it, but of course they should have some responsibility since they hung out with him and then said it was ok for him to do his fetish.
> 
> I actually think that people like you who will just call someone 'vile' who they don't even know for having a different opinion on a tabloid news issue are pretty toxic but whatever



These women were put in an impossible situation by a powerful person who abused that power. In his own words, he put them in a predicament and abused his power. It's obviously difficult for you to empathise with anyone who's been on the wrong end of a toxic dynamic. Perhaps reading more of the women's testimonies might help ? Or separating this aspect of his behaviour from the aspects of him you admire (the performances ?).


----------



## Raheem (Jul 27, 2020)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> In front of other people. It's not exactly the done thing in the workplace.


Reckon it's recently become more common though, in between Zoom appointments, not realising you're still live.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Louis CK was also a victim of tabloids. He committed no actual crimes and the big 'secret' about him was that he was a guy who was obsessed with masturbation


we're all victims of tabloids


----------



## existentialist (Jul 27, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Reckon it's recently become more common though, in between Zoom appointments, not realising you're still live.


TBF, it's going to be very obvious from the context whether it's accidental or abusive.


----------



## belboid (Jul 27, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> This is a civil case in the civil division of the High Court, so wouldn't delay hearings concerning abuse, a criminal offence, which would normally be heard in a Magistrates' or Crown Court.


Well, they could choose not to hear civil cases in all but the most extreme cases, so that more criminal matters could go ahead.  But in libel cases they actually pay for the court time, so it saves money to keep them running.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 27, 2020)

belboid said:


> Well, they could choose not to hear civil cases in all but the most extreme cases, so that more criminal matters could go ahead.  But in libel cases they actually pay for the court time, so it saves money to keep them running.



The civil and criminal divisions of the High Court use different specialist judges, they even wear different coloured robes, red for judges dealing with criminal cases, black for those that deal with civil cases.


----------



## belboid (Jul 27, 2020)

Who cares about the judges? Lack of court space is one of the key reasons for trials not going ahead, do that space could be freed up.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 27, 2020)

belboid said:


> Who cares about the judges? Lack of court space is one of the key reasons for trials not going ahead, do that space could be freed up.



It doesn't need to be, courts can sit in temporary venues, which is already planned with the “Nightingale courts” currently opening.









						Location of 'Nightingale courts' to tackle case backlog in England and Wales revealed
					

Temporary sites to tackle coronavirus logjam include MoJ HQ and courts shut by Tories




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Raheem (Jul 27, 2020)

belboid said:


> Who cares about the judges? Lack of court space is one of the key reasons for trials not going ahead, do that space could be freed up.


Judges specialise. You wouldn't want a tax lawyer with all the social prejudices of a random Telegraph reader presiding over a libel case about domestic abuse.

Similarly, you wouldn't want anyone with a human soul interfering the tax affairs of wealth creators, or it would be a one-way slide into hell.


----------



## Thora (Jul 27, 2020)

Sue said:


> This isn't about 'having a different opinion on a tabloid news issue', it's about you making excuses for someone who did something sleazy and exploitative and abusive. In his own words:
> 
> 'At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn't a question. It's a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. '
> 
> ...


Not just power because they admired him either - but power over their career.  If you’re a female comic or writer and a very famous, successful comedian asks if you will look at their penis then you’ll be thinking whether saying no will affect your ability to work in that industry.

Btw freakydave this also might not have occurred to you - but when women find themselves alone with a man who suddenly gets his dick out, they might start considering how best to get out of that situation without upsetting him or being raped.


----------



## girasol (Jul 27, 2020)

Johnny Depp's anger based on 'deep misogyny', court told
					

Actor accused of lack of respect for women that turned into violence against Amber Heard




					www.theguardian.com
				





In texts Depp, 57, had described women as “sluts” and “fat ugly whores”. In one he said he would “smack the ugly cunt around” after asking whether a “worthless hooker” had arrived. In another, he described his former partner Vanessa Paradis as a “withering cunt”.

She added: “The days are long past when the courts in this country required corroboration before accepting the unsupported testimony of a female complainant.”

Wass said a “wealth of evidence” supported Heard’s claims: text messages, medical evidence from those treating Depp for addiction and painting him as “a hopeless addict” and “unable to restrain his anger”, photographic evidence, and eyewitness testimonies of his assaults or their aftermath.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 27, 2020)

Yossarian said:


> I hope Johnny Depp wins the case and is awarded such a massive amount in damages that the Sun is forced to cease publication. After that, he can fuck off.



Some other rag will just fill the vacant niche market.  The only way for us to be free of The Scum and its like is for people to cease being interested in other people's personal garbage.  I don't see that happening any time soon.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 27, 2020)

maomao said:


> I hate cases like this. No casual observer has really heard the evidence in enough detail to form a reliable opinion. Even then there's room for doubt or it wouldn't be in court. Most (by a long long way) domestic abuse is perpetrated by men but being falsely accused of it, even in semi-jest on a bulletin board, can be very upsetting.



And when people decide who is at fault, they tend to break along who they're a fan of, rather than the few facts of the case that _are _available.  Its all best left to the courts to decide.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 27, 2020)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Some other rag will just fill the vacant niche market...


Sorry not in the UK no, that rag is not niche.  It's been a sickening influence for decades.  You can see the divisive, aggresive, judgementalism that radiates from it, and its (non niche) counterparts....even in unexpected places.


----------



## campanula (Jul 27, 2020)

Can we please stop pushing the hopeless addict buttons, please. Have nothing whatsoever to say regarding the antics of famous people or tabloid drivel...but   it gets my fucking goat when addiction is used as some sort of handy shorthand for abusive, shitty behaviour.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 27, 2020)

campanula said:


> Can we please stop pushing the hopeless addict buttons, please. Have nothing whatsoever to say regarding the antics of famous people or tabloid drivel...but   it gets my fucking goat when addiction is used as some sort of handy shorthand for abusive, shitty behaviour.


I don't think anyone has pushed that particular button on this thread have they? 🤔


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 27, 2020)

campanula said:


> Can we please stop pushing the hopeless addict buttons, please. Have nothing whatsoever to say regarding the antics of famous people or tabloid drivel...but   it gets my fucking goat when addiction is used as some sort of handy shorthand for abusive, shitty behaviour.


Actually the scum is saying that because he drinks and takes drugs then he's more likely to be a wifebeater.   It is the scum that brings up the uncontested fact that he likes to get high and drink wine.

So getting high and drinking wine certainly are not 'shorthand for abusive, shitty behaviour.' as far as I'm aware but they are implying that the two go together.   You know...like in Reefer Madness.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 27, 2020)

campanula said:


> Can we please stop pushing the hopeless addict buttons, please. Have nothing whatsoever to say regarding the antics of famous people or tabloid drivel...but   it gets my fucking goat when addiction is used as some sort of handy shorthand for abusive, shitty behaviour.


Or, at least in this case..._alleged_ abusive, shitty behaviour.


----------



## campanula (Jul 28, 2020)

Ah, apologies from me. For being a bit precious and over-sensitive...AND NOT PROPERLY READING THE THREAD. Should I delete my post? I often feel uncomfortable, with equating the role of the addicted as either abuser or victim... because it is complex, subjective and  slippery. Nearly always politicised, and sometimes weaponised.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 28, 2020)

Nah fair comment - as said it's what the sun does.


----------



## freakydave (Jul 28, 2020)

I pissed people off so I will say one thing about Louis CK. Sorry to disrupt the discussion
I follow American comedy and it was a thing even I knew as an internet geek who has never been to USA years before the story broke.
the stuff that he got up to was way before he was a big deal, I think he'd been on TV once. my reaction to it was 'eurgh' but I think people see it in the context of the huge star that he became rather than the gen X struggling comic that he was. I agree with what he said that he was stupid and didn't realise that his behaviour was out of order,  but I do think that the context means something.
most people on here seem to be around 40 like me and I'd imagine that for a good chunk of us if we had the success that he had somebody would appear and be able to get their 30 pieces for something shitty that we did back in the day, and definitely knew someone who was like that who turned out ok and shouldn't be fired 
but I disrupted the thread so sorry about that


----------



## bimble (Jul 28, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I pissed people off so I will say one thing about Louis CK. Sorry to disrupt the discussion
> I follow American comedy and it was a thing even I knew as an internet geek who has never been to USA years before the story broke.
> the stuff that he got up to was way before he was a big deal, I think he'd been on TV once. my reaction to it was 'eurgh' but I think people see it in the context of the huge star that he became rather than the gen X struggling comic that he was. I agree with what he said that he was stupid and didn't realise that his behaviour was out of order,  but I do think that the context means something.
> most people on here seem to be around 40 like me and I'd imagine that for a good chunk of us if we had the success that he had somebody would appear and be able to get their 30 pieces for something shitty that we did back in the day, and definitely knew someone who was like that who turned out ok and shouldn't be fired
> but I disrupted the thread so sorry about that


Nope sorry dave. No we have not all done stuff like that. And suggesting the women who came forward did so for money as you do is abysmal. 
eta i see everyone's already dealt with this at length he's just carrying on regardless.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 28, 2020)

Can you please shut up about Louis CK


----------



## Mogden (Jul 28, 2020)

Depp has been leaving handwritten notes and bandanas with fans who have waited for him and shown their support. Prompted me to recall when he bought up masses of Lush Black Pearl bath bombs for the crew when they finished filming.

Heard on the other hand:



Well at least Johnny is a half decent actor. Talk about sociopathic.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 28, 2020)

Mogden said:


> Depp has been leaving handwritten notes and bandanas with fans who have waited for him and shown their support. Prompted me to recall when he bought up masses of Lush Black Pearl bath bombs for the crew when they finished filming.
> 
> Heard on the other hand:
> 
> ...



Also Johnny Depp visits children's hospitals all over the world in character as Jack Sparrow.
You will not find anyone who knows him who will say a bad word about him, apart from, well, you know who. 
Heard used to be very pally with Amanda De Cadanet who initially supported her in a #metoo way and personally. 
She has withdrawn support for Heard saying she was lied to about Johnny hitting her.

I feel for him. I believe he is totally innocent and has gone through hell over false allegations. 
I have read all the evidence before I made my mind up.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 28, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Also Johnny Depp visits children's hospitals all over the world in character as Jack Sparrow.
> You will not find anyone who knows him who will say a bad word about him...



Same could be said of Jimmy Savile back in the day.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 28, 2020)

I'm not knocking his good works, but as a defence against the abuse allegations, they don't really count for anything. Jimmy Savile used to visit hospitals.

ETA: Great minds and that, cs.


----------



## Thora (Jul 28, 2020)

Someone’s good standing in the community or what a great bloke his mates think he is tells you exactly 0 about whether he hits his wife.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 28, 2020)

Raheem said:


> I'm not knocking his good works, but as a defence against the abuse allegations, they don't really count for anything. Jimmy Savile used to visit hospitals.
> 
> ETA: Great minds and that, cs.



Fools, etc.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 28, 2020)

Jesus, a rich straight white guy can't get an even break around here 😜


----------



## 1927 (Jul 28, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Seems like there is no evidence of Depp attacking her but quite a lot of evidence of her attacking him. She sounds like a right scumbag, she also tried to shame her other two famous boyfriends to get money out of them


Have you heard the same news reports as me, cos he sounds like a wife beater to me?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 28, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I pissed people off so I will say one thing about Louis CK. Sorry to disrupt the discussion
> I follow American comedy and it was a thing even I knew as an internet geek who has never been to USA years before the story broke.
> the stuff that he got up to was way before he was a big deal, I think he'd been on TV once. my reaction to it was 'eurgh' but I think people see it in the context of the huge star that he became rather than the gen X struggling comic that he was. I agree with what he said that he was stupid and didn't realise that his behaviour was out of order,  but I do think that the context means something.
> most people on here seem to be around 40 like me and I'd imagine that for a good chunk of us if we had the success that he had somebody would appear and be able to get their 30 pieces for something shitty that we did back in the day, and definitely knew someone who was like that who turned out ok and shouldn't be fired
> but I disrupted the thread so sorry about that


Put the shovel down. You're fine - just try not to do it again _taps nose_.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 28, 2020)

Thora said:


> Someone’s good standing in the community or what a great bloke his mates think he is tells you exactly 0 about whether he hits his wife.


No, the last 3 weeks of evidence says that. 

On the other side Heard has admitted to punching him on at least 2 occasions and a third witness has testified that she threw a vodka bottle at him thst severed the end of his finger.
They also dug up some old footage where Amber's sister was talking about her bruises stating Amber had "beat her ass"*.*


----------



## D'wards (Jul 28, 2020)

1927 said:


> Have you heard the same news reports as me, cos he sounds like a wife beater to me?


Links please


----------



## existentialist (Jul 28, 2020)

Mogden said:


> Depp has been leaving handwritten notes and bandanas with fans who have waited for him and shown their support. Prompted me to recall when he bought up masses of Lush Black Pearl bath bombs for the crew when they finished filming.
> 
> Heard on the other hand:
> 
> ...



I have tried really hard to not come to judgement on either of these two people. Watching that, I feel manipulated. It's rather harder to refrain from judgement after watching that.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 28, 2020)

Thora said:


> Someone’s good standing in the community or what a great bloke his mates think he is tells you exactly 0 about whether he hits his wife.


And, I imagine, _vice versa_.


----------



## 1927 (Jul 28, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Links please


Every radio news report I've heard for the last couple of weeks driving home from work. Radio 2, 530pm 6pm, 630pm, 7pm.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 28, 2020)

1927 said:


> Every radio news report I've heard for the last couple of weeks driving home from work. Radio 2, 530pm 6pm, 630pm, 7pm.


Oh nothing linkable- convenient


----------



## Bollox (Jul 28, 2020)

She's got nutcase written all over her


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 29, 2020)

I believe him more than her at the moment


----------



## 1927 (Jul 29, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Oh nothing linkable- convenient


My apologies for getting my news form the radio, i shall in future ensure that I buy a quality newspaper every morning, or only read online news that can be easily referenced in case of dispute.


----------



## klang (Jul 29, 2020)

is everybody done? can we kill him yet?


----------



## Mogden (Jul 29, 2020)

Direct sources are marked as USA Today and LA Times but from Wikipedia:



> Heard was in a relationship with photographer Tasya van Ree from 2008 to 2012.[73][75] In 2009, Heard was arrested in the state of Washington for misdemeanor domestic violence, allegedly after grabbing van Ree and hitting her arm. Ultimately, no charges were filed against Heard. The police lawfully deleted records of the arrest in 2011 after a request, but the King County District Court retained their own records. In 2016, van Ree defended Heard as the incident went public, stating that Heard had been "wrongfully" accused and that the incident had been "misinterpreted and over-sensationalized"



I'm not trying to discredit her, I'm just trying to provide more pertinent information.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 29, 2020)

Whether you think Depp is an abuser there is no doubt that Heard is


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2020)

I expect someone will make a film of the trial


----------



## weltweit (Jul 29, 2020)

No idea here which way it will go. 
No idea who is telling porkies. 
It seems there is no deadline for the judge to give their verdict?


----------



## Reno (Jul 29, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> I expect someone will make a film of the trial


At best this trial will provide inspiration for an episode of a legal tv series. The Weinstein case is the only trial of the #MeToo era which may get a film/tv series, as its the one which kicked off the movement.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 29, 2020)

Two people had a shit relationship and abused each possibly one more than another, we can't be sure. No-one gains but the tabloids here. Hope they both heal someday and move on, being better to those around them.

There's money and fame involved, but it's essentially the same for everyone. Christ knows the only way for me to be free of the nightmare relationship I chronicled on here, in a former guise, was to get the way from anything to do with it. Sensible people around them should be getting them out of harm's way


----------



## Reno (Jul 29, 2020)

Harry Smiles said:


> Two people had a shit relationship and abused each possibly one more than another, we can't be sure.* No-one gains but the tabloids here. *Hope they both heal someday and move on, being better to those around them.
> 
> There's money and fame involved, but it's essentially the same for everyone. Christ knows the only way for me to be free of the nightmare relationship I chronicled on here, in a former guise, was to get the way from anything to do with it. Sensible people around them should be getting them out of harm's way


The whole point of this entire exercise being that the most loathsome of tabloids won't gain, but suffer a loss.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 29, 2020)

Reno said:


> The whole point of this entire exercise being that the most loathsome of tabloids won't gain, but suffer a loss.



That would nice, but I suspect they'll actually gain from this


----------



## hash tag (Jul 29, 2020)

Harry Smiles said:


> Two people had a shit relationship and abused each possibly one more than another, we can't be sure. No-one gains but the tabloids here. Hope they both heal someday and move on, being better to those around them.
> 
> There's money and fame involved, but it's essentially the same for everyone. Christ knows the only way for me to be free of the nightmare relationship I chronicled on here, in a former guise, was to get the way from anything to do with it. Sensible people around them should be getting them out of harm's way


It's solicitors who will be taking it in over this.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 29, 2020)

And possibly people who set up photos if the ridiculous photo of his party table is considered not staged!


----------



## Aladdin (Jul 29, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Seems like there is no evidence of Depp attacking her but quite a lot of evidence of her attacking him. She sounds like a right scumbag, she also tried to shame her other two famous boyfriends to get money out of them




She has donated her divorce settlement money to charity.
I doubt she needs any man's money.


----------



## Aladdin (Jul 29, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> I expect someone will make a film of the trial



They should both star in it.


----------



## Marty1 (Jul 29, 2020)

Mogden said:


> Depp has been leaving handwritten notes and bandanas with fans who have waited for him and shown their support. Prompted me to recall when he bought up masses of Lush Black Pearl bath bombs for the crew when they finished filming.
> 
> Heard on the other hand:
> 
> ...




Don’t think she came across very well there tbh - was like she was acting a part in a movie.


----------



## savoloysam (Jul 30, 2020)

This case appears to be a textbook example of why you shouldn't believe any of the shite the MSM spews up.

If I was only getting my news from the top of the hour BBC headlines or the cover pages on the tabloids, I'd be thinking "that Johnny Depp fella seems like nasty piece of work" and that is exactly the sum of The Sun's case. Nothing but empty smears.

For anybody who bothers to look deeply into this case the reverse seems to be much more like it. Futhermore it seems that Amber Heard is quite the conniving Narcopath is all of this. This girl seems to be on a one way mission to completely decredit the #MeToo Movement. Ladies. are you still seriously still backing this woman? It's the equivalent of getting a Catholic Priest to run child abuse enquiry. 

Why do I say this? Well because there is a montain of evidence in this case to prove exactly that. Hell you could even bore yourself to sleep with the entire transcripts of the case. It's all online and it's very very damming!

Pesonally I agree with this lawyers summing up of this case. I'm pretty sure the judge is going to vindicate JD's name with handsome cheque and if you think that's going to be the last of it forget it! It appears JD is taking her direct to trial in the states at the end of the year or next year. I wonder how much longer the media can hold her up and keep him down? Captains and large unsinkable ships spring to mind.

One side note. JD lawyers played a blinder in this case. They let The Sun's defence team run over and over an edited video which when left to the imagination (with some prompting) had the entire court fearing for AH's safety in a what happened next scenario. Well unknown to The Sun's lawyers, JD's lawyer had the full unedited video and kept it fully under wraps until the 11th hour and 59th minute and nothing of the sort happened. In fact it just showed the nice side of Johnny, I wish I could have been there to see her face!


----------



## D'wards (Jul 30, 2020)

As previously mentioned, Amber's exploitation of the #metoo and #ibelieveher movements has hoodwinked a lot of people, including many on this thread. 

To borrow a boxing term, Johnny needs a knockout to get a draw.


----------



## Combustible (Jul 31, 2020)

savoloysam said:


> One side note. JD lawyers played a blinder in this case. They let The Sun's defence team run over and over an edited video which when left to the imagination (with some prompting) had the entire court fearing for AH's safety in a what happened next scenario. Well unknown to The Sun's lawyers, JD's lawyer had the full unedited video and kept it fully under wraps until the 11th hour and 59th minute and nothing of the sort happened. In fact it just showed the nice side of Johnny, I wish I could have been there to see her face!



I don't think it works like that outside of TV and films. You cannot just keep your evidence under wraps until the last possible moment and spring it in court, it will have been disclosed to the other side well in advance.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 2, 2020)

He's lost his case against the Sun.









						Johnny Depp loses libel case against Sun over claims he beat ex-wife Amber Heard
					

Pirates of Caribbean actor had sued newspaper publisher for damage to his reputation




					www.theguardian.com
				




That's going to cost him.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Nov 2, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> He's lost his case against the Sun.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oops.


----------



## belboid (Nov 2, 2020)

Much as I’d like to say they’re all losers there (Heard didn’t come out of it very well either), sadly The Sun is a winner


----------



## Johnny Doe (Nov 2, 2020)

Combustible said:


> I don't think it works like that outside of TV and films. You cannot just keep your evidence under wraps until the last possible moment and spring it in court, it will have been disclosed to the other side well in advance.



Indeed. Surely the other side should have just shouted at him until he lost his temper and shouted 'yes, I did it, I did order the code red!'


----------



## Raheem (Nov 2, 2020)

Guess just occasionally it pays not to have the money to do whatever you like.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 2, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Guess just occasionally it pays not to have the money to do whatever you like.



Especially if you are a massive egotist


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 2, 2020)

The trouble with actors is nobody is sure when you are not.


----------



## Argonia (Nov 2, 2020)

Is he going to be scissored out of history the way they did with Kevin Spacey?


----------



## Raheem (Nov 2, 2020)

Argonia said:


> Is he going to be scissored out of history the way they did with Kevin Spacey?


Edward Scissored Hands
What's Eaten Gilbert Grape?
Gonnie Brasco


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 2, 2020)

Public Enemas.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 2, 2020)

Ed Wouldn't


----------



## Sasaferrato (Nov 2, 2020)

The fees will be eye watering. The only people who benefit from this kind of shit are the lawyers.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 2, 2020)

He's also suing her in the US over a piece she wrote for the Washington Post that suggested he was violent towards her. 

The judge in the High Court in London said, "I have found that the great majority of alleged assaults of Ms Heard by Mr Depp have been proved to the civil standard."   Which I guess kind of kills the scumbag's case.


----------



## girasol (Nov 2, 2020)

Despite the attempts to discredit/tarnish Amber by the prosecution and some of the media, it's not just The Sun that's won.  Hopefully this will give more victims of domestic abuse the courage to stand up.  And the more that stand up the less emboldened the abusers will feel.  Maybe they will stop and think that when their partner is screaming and crying it's because they are terrified rather than it being an attack on them.  (that's how many abusers often feel, like they are being attacked and they are merely defending themselves).


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 2, 2020)

He's going to appeal.


----------



## Raheem (Nov 2, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> He's going to appeal.


He doesn't really have anything to lose, does he?


----------



## weltweit (Nov 2, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> He's going to appeal.


I wonder just how much money he has to waste .. ?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 2, 2020)

Raheem said:


> He doesn't really have anything to lose, does he?



Yes, loads more money.


----------



## planetgeli (Nov 2, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yes, loads more money.



He's worth $200 million. And that's after losing $650 million a while back (dunno if he's looked down the back of the sofa).

He can probably afford it. Obscene wealth.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 2, 2020)

at least he's passing it round to poor solicitors and barristers


----------



## belboid (Nov 2, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> He's worth $200 million. And that's after losing $650 million a while back (dunno if he's looked down the back of the sofa).
> 
> He can probably afford it. Obscene wealth.


he's made $650M I think rather than ever being worth it (as it were).  he did lose a bunch a while back, usual dodgy accountant. Most of the rest went up his nose.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 2, 2020)

aromatherapy eh? bastards they are


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Nov 2, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> He's worth $200 million. And that's after losing $650 million a while back (dunno if he's looked down the back of the sofa).
> 
> He can probably afford it. Obscene wealth.



This is certainly worth a read.









						Cocaine binges and $30,000 wine bills: Johnny Depp's lifestyle laid bare
					

Libel battle with the Sun and ex-wife Amber Heard exposes actor’s hedonistic Hollywood existence




					www.theguardian.com
				




It's horrific that anyone can be that rich.


----------



## quiet guy (Nov 2, 2020)

two sheds said:


> aromatherapy eh? bastards they are



That's a lot of patchouli oil


----------



## Raheem (Nov 2, 2020)

weltweit said:


> I wonder just how much money he has to waste .. ?


If he were to win an appeal, he could potentially make the money to pay the lawyers while he's having his makeup done at the beginning of his next job.

But if he doesn't appeal, his career is over and anyone in the UK can sell t-shirts with "Johnny Depp is a wife-beater" printed on them and there's nothing he can do.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.


----------



## Sweet FA (Nov 2, 2020)

What a massive cunt he is. I hope that's him fucked.









						How Amber Heard stood alone against a Hollywood superstar
					

Actor endured pressure in and out of court during Johnny Depp libel trial but emerged vindicated




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Argonia (Nov 6, 2020)

The scissor(hand)ing out of history has begun. He's going to be down the Jobcentre pretty soon.









						Johnny Depp leaves Fantastic Beasts film franchise
					

The actor says he was "asked to resign" his role in the series and had "agreed to that request".



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 25, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> He's going to appeal.



No he isn’t:









						Judge denies Johnny Depp permission to appeal Sun libel action
					

Actor ordered to pay £630,000 after libel action against Sun over ‘wife beater’ allegations




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2020)

He appears to have some proper loony tunes stans, active on social media, who are divorced from reality much like Michael Jackson superfans


----------



## Raheem (Nov 25, 2020)

Or Trumpers.


----------



## ska invita (Nov 25, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> He appears to have some proper loony tunes stans, active on social media, who are divorced from reality much like Michael Jackson superfans


i guess they dont call them fanatics for nothing


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 26, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> No he isn’t:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do find it odd that the judge who made the judgement against him is the one to deny him an appeal. Glad he’s fucked of course, but an appeal often hangs on the judge fucking something up and this judge has decided that he didn’t fuck up.


----------



## Aladdin (Nov 26, 2020)

Good actor.
Cunt irl.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Nov 26, 2020)

Sugar Kane said:


> Good actor.
> Cunt irl.



Not even sure he's that good an actor tbf.  He's been in a smattering of good films, but I don't think I've watched a JD performance and thought it amazing.  Others may disagree...


----------



## Winot (Nov 26, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I do find it odd that the judge who made the judgement against him is the one to deny him an appeal. Glad he’s fucked of course, but an appeal often hangs on the judge fucking something up and this judge has decided that he didn’t fuck up.



That’s how it’s usually done afaik. The first stage is that the judge who has issued the decision decides whether or not there are any issues that could be appealable. If he decides there are not then the losing party still has the option of applying directly to the higher court for permission to appeal.

There’s a bit of difference between there being appealable issues and the judge fucking up. Quite often a judge will say “look this is what I think the answer is but I could be wrong and I think there is a point of law here that warrants an appeal“. Clearly the judge in this case didn’t think that was the case. Depp could still get an appeal though if the Court of Appeal agrees.

(All of the above based on my general knowledge of civil law. I don’t know anything about the law of defamation so could be wrong)


----------



## two sheds (Nov 26, 2020)

I suppose it makes sense rather than a new judge having to review all the evidence.


----------



## Winot (Nov 26, 2020)

two sheds said:


> I suppose it makes sense rather than a new judge having to review all the evidence.



Higher courts don’t tend to review the evidence in any event - they are more concerned with whether the law was applied correctly to the evidence as presented.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

I do wonder how Amber Heard's career will go now as there is a lot of evidence she is a violent person.
There is a very damning tape available of her admitting to beating up Depp and when he says that when she goes into violent rages he leaves the house she mocks him and calls him a baby. 
But this trial wasn't about whether she physically abused him were it...


----------



## Argonia (Nov 26, 2020)

I suspect Heard will be fine whilst Depp while be signing on for Universal Credit.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

Argonia said:


> I suspect Heard will be fine whilst Depp while be signing on for Universal Credit.


Have you heard the tape where Heard admits abusing him?
Even her bestie Amanda de Cadanet turned her back on her after hearing that. She was supposed to be a witness for the prosecution too


----------



## Argonia (Nov 26, 2020)

No I haven't heard that, haven't really followed the case in much detail but I just a hunch that Heard will be fine in the long term. Maybe wrong!


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> I do wonder how Amber Heard's career will go now as there is a lot of evidence she is a violent person.
> There is a very damning tape available of her admitting to beating up Depp and when he says that when she goes into violent rages he leaves the house she mocks him and calls him a baby.
> But this trial wasn't about whether she physically abused him were it...



Did Heard take anyone to court claiming libel? No, so allegations about her behaviour were utterly irrelevant. Depp's lawyers seemed to think throwing mud about her was the same as clearing him which was literally a losing case. They tried to make her out to be a gold-digger and a harridan and even if she's flawed she's succeeded in having that disproved via The Sun (urgh). According to Depp, the cruellest thing she did was try to get him to do rehab properly!  He's an overindulged, immature lush and reading those texts to Paul Bettany, a vindictive misogynist to boot.

It's all a bit of a sad cautionary tale of what happens when you're too rich for anyone to tell you the truth.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 26, 2020)

Didn't she chop his finger off by throwing a bottle at him?


----------



## Raheem (Nov 26, 2020)

mwgdrwg said:


> Didn't she chop his finger off by throwing a bottle at him?


According to him, but not according to the judge.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

Raheem said:


> According to him, but not according to the judge.


Someone did a massive poo in his bed, either Heard or her pal. According to the judge it was one of the dogs.
The poo was bigger than the dogs (Yorkshire terriers)


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Someone did a massive poo in his bed, either Heard or her pal. According to the judge it was one of the dogs.
> The poo was bigger than the dogs (Yorkshire terriers)



Were there pictures of the offending turd*?


*the terrier shit, not Depp.


----------



## Thora (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Someone did a massive poo in his bed, either Heard or her pal. According to the judge it was one of the dogs.
> The poo was bigger than the dogs (Yorkshire terriers)


You seem very invested in this?


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

Basically having read all the evidence on this case, including personal testimonials from friends and employees, the verdict came as a bit of a shock.
This is why he continues to have so much support.
I'm not a huge Depp fan, I have no dog in this fight, but followed the case closely, although was obviously not in the court room.

No one had ever accused depp of violence before and it was literally just her word against his.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Were there pictures of the offending turd*?
> 
> 
> *the terrier shit, not Depp.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

Thora said:


> You seem very invested in this?


I was very interested in it yes. Love a courtroom drama


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> View attachment 240518




Only small dogs manage that girth without a decent length. If there's one thing UK judges know about, it's dogs.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> View attachment 240518





And on a serious note. So fucking what? If she scatted rancid mutton vindaloo diarrhoea on his bed on an hourly basis, he still has no business hitting her.


----------



## Reno (Nov 26, 2020)

Argonia said:


> I suspect Heard will be fine whilst Depp while be signing on for Universal Credit.


Heard doesn’t have a particularly distinguished career and never had a lead role in a film which required great acting. There are dozens of young actresses on her level who can be cast in the type of roles she gets. I could imagine plenty of productions would rather go with someone else now. There will be a lot of people in the industry still loyal to Depp and the revelations about her were damaging.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Nov 26, 2020)

Reno said:


> Heard doesn’t have a particularly distinguished career and never had a lead role in a film which required great acting. There are dozens of young actresses on her level who can be cast in the type of roles she gets. I could imagine plenty of productions would rather go with someone else now. There will be a lot of people in the industry still loyal to Depp and the revelations about her were damaging.



Which revelations about her?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 26, 2020)

There’s a smidgin of MRAing in all this focussing on Heard instead of Depp


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> There’s a smidgin of MRAing in all this focussing on Heard instead of Depp


Put his name into Twitter. His supporters in this trial are majority female, at least those tweeting about it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Put his name into Twitter. His supporters in this trial are majority female, at least those tweeting about it.


You’re not


----------



## bimble (Nov 26, 2020)

Totally beyond me how people can even be bothered to follow this shitshow and pick a side in some hideous couple you’ll never meet & you know you have no chance of knowing what the truth of any of it is. Just bizarre. Probably the same people who avidly watch those shows with celebs trapped in a house for months fighting in their pyjamas. Weird.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

No but I have bothered to read all the evidence which precious little people on this thread seem to have. 

As I've said I'm not a Depp fan really, couple or three good films, but when you look deeper into this it does seem like its a miscarriage of justice. 

On a side note, which may be MRAey, its certain she physically abused him. She has admitted it, yet no one gives a fuck.
Gives fuel to the fire that male victims of DV aren't taken seriously at all


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

Of course there's a lot of tin foil hattery going around that the judge in this case, Justice Nichols, is somehow connected to the Heard family and the Sun but this i believe is complete bollocks


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> No but I have bothered to read all the evidence which precious little people on this thread seem to have.
> 
> As I've said I'm not a Depp fan really, couple or three good films, but when you look deeper into this it does seem like its a miscarriage of justice.
> 
> ...


I doubt you have 'read all the evidence' unless you're the judge


----------



## pogofish (Nov 26, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> There’s a smidgin of MRAing in all this focussing on Heard instead of Depp



More than a smidgin, from the comment that I've seen (from the outset) - A very great deal of it seemed a fairly determined attempt to portray Heard as the epitome of the damaged/destructive/exploitative woman from the darkest depths of any right-thinkin' MRA/"Redpill"/MGTOW type's nightmares!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> No but I have bothered to read all the evidence which precious little people on this thread seem to have.
> 
> As I've said I'm not a Depp fan really, couple or three good films, but when you look deeper into this it does seem like its a miscarriage of justice.
> 
> ...


What do you mean, a miscarriage of justice?  Depp was suing The Sun for defamation because they called him a wife beater.  The judge determined that there was no defamation because he HAD beaten his wife.  How is that a miscarriage of justice?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 26, 2020)

It's all a bit:


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

ElizabethofYork said:


> What do you mean, a miscarriage of justice?  Depp was suing The Sun for defamation because they called him a wife beater.  The judge determined that there was no defamation because he HAD beaten his wife.  How is that a miscarriage of justice?


Because I don't believe Depp is a wifebeater.

I also don't believe Woody Allen is a paedophile, after reading everything there is to read about it. But there again I am a huge Woody fan so maybe I would say that🤔


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Because I don't believe Depp is a wifebeater.
> 
> I also don't believe Woody Allen is a paedophile, after reading everything there is to read about it. But there again I am a huge Woody fan so maybe I would say that🤔


Oh well, the judge believes that he is.  After hearing all the evidence.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards , I wonder which of the 12 assaults you don't believe? 









						Johnny Depp trial: how the judge ruled on 14 alleged assaults
					

Twelve of 14 allegations by Amber Heard found to be ‘proved to the civil standard’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

On a side note, if anyone else likes a courtroom drama watch OJ: Made in America. 
His lawyer was a genius and basically made it impossible for the jury to convict a clearly guilty man.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Because I don't believe Depp is a wifebeater.
> 
> I also don't believe Woody Allen is a paedophile, after reading everything there is to read about it. But there again I am a huge Woody fan so maybe I would say that🤔


So him marrying his stepdaughter is what? Yes, she was 21 when they started a romantic relationship but that hardly makes it morally right.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> So him marrying his stepdaughter is what? Yes, she was 21 when they started a romantic relationship but that hardly makes it morally right.


She wasn't his stepdaughter. He wasn't married to Mia Farrow and never lived with her..
He held no parental influence over Soon Yi and in fact didn't really know her.
Mia insisted they get to know each other so he started to take her to basketball games and the rest is admittedly disgusting history

Anyway, let's not get into this here (too late)


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 26, 2020)

D'wards said:


> She wasn't his stepdaughter. He wasn't married to Mia Farrow and never lived with her..
> He held no parental influence over Soon Yi and in fact didn't really know her.
> Mia insisted they get to know each other so he started to take her to basketball games and the rest is admittedly disgusting history


Totally the actions of someone with predatory instincts. Just because Mia ,- his long-term partner even if they weren't married -encouraged him to get to know her adopted daughter it doesn't justify his behaviour no matter how much you love his films.


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 26, 2020)

What concerns me most is much of the discourse online (not here, tbf) seems to be that because she was unpleasant, or provoking, or didn't cower in the corner in fear all of the time, he couldn't be a wife beater. Which I really had hoped in 2020 we'd got beyond, this idea of what a "good" victim looks like, but apparently not. I even read someone saying that of course he lashed out because she has borderline personality disorder, and I have close relatives with bordeline personality disorder, it's nice to know some people think that means violence and abuse against them is fair game.

eta. and anyone who thinks small yappy type dogs aren't massive shitters hasn't spent any time around small yappy type dogs


----------



## D'wards (Nov 26, 2020)

I just saw that godawful advert for his Sausage perfume, or whatever its called, on ITV before Celebrity Jungle Time so looks like reports of his "cancelling" are greatly exaggerated.


----------



## Argonia (Nov 27, 2020)

small yappy type dogs


----------



## D'wards (Nov 27, 2020)

This is part of the reason I believe he is not a wife beater. Her legal team hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on him.


> Paul Barresi stepped out and claimed that Heard’s legal team hired him to find people who had been verbally or physically abused by Depp to be star witnesses against the “Pirates of the Caribbean” actor. He interviewed over 100 people across the U.S. and the U.K. who worked with Depp three decades ago but couldn’t find one who could stand as witness against the actor.
> “Amber's lawyers contacted me and said you're the right man for this job, that's how they brought me in. She was emotionally spent and battered and tormented - it was a volatile relationship,” Barresi told DailyMail.
> 
> 
> ...



His previous long term partners Vanessa Paradis and Wynona Ryder were due to be character witnesses for him but were not called for.

On boards like these I understand the prevailing wisdom will be #ibelieveher and #believewomen (which even Margaret Atwood warned against and got crucified by Internet feminists)

I'm suspect he'll probably lose the Court of Appeal due to the nuances of the British legal system,  but they have a libel trial in America next year with Depp suing Heard, and their laws are slightly different regarding this so will be interesting to see what happens there


----------



## D'wards (Nov 27, 2020)

pogofish said:


> More than a smidgin, from the comment that I've seen (from the outset) - A very great deal of it seemed a fairly determined attempt to portray Heard as the epitome of the damaged/destructive/exploitative woman from the darkest depths of any right-thinkin' MRA/"Redpill"/MGTOW type's nightmares!


And the fact she duffed up Depp, duffed up her ex partner and duffed up her sister


----------



## Combustible (Nov 27, 2020)

Jesus christ, the fact that he apparently did not assault his ex-partners, or other people in his vicinity, does not mean he didn't assault Amber Heard. I don't care enough to look at all the evidence, but there was a clear incident where he assaulted her on an airplane, which he and his team acknowledged to her over the following days. And his explanations for why he sent the messages, if he didn't assault her, were not at all believable as the judge recognized.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2020)

D'wards said:


> This is part of the reason I believe he is not a wife beater. Her legal team hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on him.
> 
> 
> His previous long term partners Vanessa Paradis and Wynona Ryder were due to be character witnesses for him but were not called for.
> ...


you'll regret this post which flies in the face of all the evidence.

so he was only vile to ah. she was jd's wife. he beat her. ergo he is a wife beater.


----------



## bimble (Nov 27, 2020)

What is it that makes you so invested in this whole story and the wrongdoings of jonny depp’s ex wife can you explain it d’wards?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

So like one or two others, I have also read the court documents, and listened to the hours of tape recordings between Heard & Depp. As well as listening to youtubers dissecting these documents and tapes. e.g. That Umberella Guy, Come Geek Some, Stevie J Raw, etc, etc., The reason I became interested in this case, is because initially I believed Amber Heard #believeallwomen, #MeToo etc.,
However, the deeper I delved into it, particularly the recorded conversations between them. It became clear that AH was the abuser. She constantly berates Depp for leaving whenever she becomes violent, which she admits to being. She hectors & loses her temper at the drop of a hat, while JD patiently tries to explain why he leaves the room/premises when she does become violet.

She accuses him of being a baby because he does that and tells him that no-one will believe him if he says that he as a man is being abused by his tiny wife! Heard blackmailed him with a list of demands, telling him that if he didn't give into her demands for 3 penthouses (he owned 5), $50k per month alimony, cars & sundry other items, she would go public with her claims. She wrote an Op Ed piece all about her abusive marriage, while agreeing not to slander Depp. She got a measly $7 million dollar settlement, which she broadcast to the world that she donated to 2 charities. She lied about that too & has steadfastly refused to show proof of her donations. Although that documentation has been requested for the VA trial in 2021.

In most cases of domestic abuse it is male on female, but this is a case of female on male violence. Heard has co-opted the #MeToo movement and is now a spokesperson for abuse survivors. She was arrested for DV against a previous partner Tasya Van Ree. So there is evidence of domestic violence on her record, whereas JD has anyone and everyone standing up for him, including his previous sexual partners. A person doesn't suddenly become an abuser aged 57! No-one has a bad word to say about the guy, in the movie industry and out of it!

When you haven't listened to the hours & hours of recorded conversations, it is easy to agree with AH, because that's the way things usually go. This situation will have a negative effect on male abuse survivors, who are often laughed at and ridiculed and not believed because they are men. And it could very well bring the #MeToo movement crashing down, because a female perpetrator of DV is now representing it. This is bad for men and women.

They were both serious drug & alcohol abusers, with Heard taking anti-psychotic drugs for her mental health issues. Heard implies she didn't really drink, while downing 3 bottles of wine per night, as well as cocaine, mushrooms and acid. She has presented herself as a victim and JD as a perpetrator. They were both victims of their substance abuse issues, but doing substances doesn't equate to becoming a violent abuser.


----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2021)

You probably need to find a more rewarding hobby tbh.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

Maybe so killer b. This isn't just another celebrity story though, it's  fundamental to issues we are hearing about and discussing at the moment. Going back to Harvey Weinstein and the ~MeToo movement. 

It's the zeitgeist man!


----------



## D'wards (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Maybe so killer b. This isn't just another celebrity story though, it's  fundamental to issues we are hearing about and discussing at the moment. Going back to Harvey Weinstein and the ~MeToo movement.
> 
> It's the zeitgeist man!


Ignore the personal attacks. You, like a lot of people but precious few on this thread, have actually looked into the case, rather than just going for the "believe all women" rhetoric without nuance.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2021)




----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Maybe so killer b. This isn't just another celebrity story though, it's  fundamental to issues we are hearing about and discussing at the moment. Going back to Harvey Weinstein and the ~MeToo movement.
> 
> It's the zeitgeist man!


it really isn't, and you should get a life that doesn't involve going through celebrities bins.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 3, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Ignore the personal attacks. You, like a lot of people but precious few on this thread, have actually looked into the case, rather than just going for the "believe all women" rhetoric without nuance.


Not really, we just believe the judge who's heard all of the evidence over some YouTuber's partisan theories


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 3, 2021)

They both were abusive.
Different degrees and different harm. He has been deemed by a judge in a court case to have physically assaulted and battered her 12 times.
So she was beaten. Her character or personality doesnt matter. He beat her. 

He on the other hand, was ridiculed.
But her calling him a baby is not the same as a smack in the jaw though is it?
A poo in his bed if it was indeed hers, is not the same as a black eye.
He now says he lost the tip of a finger because she threw something at him...well that's rough...but she would want to be pretty skilled at throwing stuff to intentionally chop a bit of his finger off. 

Intention is important and a guy smacking and hitting a woman isn't unintentional.

Sure...she might well be a manipulative pain in the ass bitch who annoyed the heck out of JD. She may have mentally fucked him up. Who really knows? 

The one fact that is now indesputable is that he beat her 12 times. All sorts of excuses will be made for him by his friends and buddies...she provoked him..she was a nasty bitch blah blah blah...
Does not matter.
He should have walked away. He could have walked away.
He didnt. And he ended up hitting her.

Drugs ..money...alcohol...whatever. does not matter. 
He is the one who has been shown in court to have beaten her.

He made his own bed on this one.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

Thanks D'wards



Orang Utan said:


> Not really, we just believe the judge who's heard all of the evidence over some YouTuber's partisan theories
> [/QUOTE
> 
> The newspapers have been partisan. It's the YouTubers who have delved into this story. If it was up to the newspapers we'd all believe AH's story.
> ...


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2021)

Love Drop's film work, but standing up for his behaviour is just wrong. It's enabling.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

Listen to the tapes which are irrefutable evidence of her violence towards him & don't believe everything you read in the newspapers, especially not the Scum! And if you can't be arsed doing that you've got nothing to say that I need to listen too, because you are just parroting the tabloids.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Listen to the tapes which are irrefutable evidence of her violence towards him & don't believe everything you read in the newspapers, especially not the Scum! And if you can't be arsed doing that you've got nothing to say that I need to listen too, because you are just parroting the tabloids.



I don't read the sun, so please don't patronise me.

I have, however, read far too much misogyny and incel hatred towards victims of male violence and how said victims did or said something "provocative" to "deserve" their fates.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

I am not enabling anyone. I've said they were both as bad as each other on the drug and alcohol front. 

If you don't want to look at the taped evidence fine, but don't rely on newspaper 'truth' because it's lies. They've taken AH's word because she is a woman. They've dismissed JD's evidence because he is a man.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 3, 2021)

Interesting to note how many of the fine folks around here have complete faith in the British judicial system. 

Wonder how/if the judge dismissed this bit of evidence 









						Amber Heard stole my sexual assault story, ex-aide tells libel trial
					

Kate James also says she often received abusive text messages from Johnny Depp’s ex-wife




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I am not enabling anyone. I've said they were both as bad as each other on the drug and alcohol front.
> 
> If you don't want to look at the taped evidence fine, but don't rely on newspaper 'truth' because it's lies. They've taken AH's word because she is a woman. They've dismissed JD's evidence because he is a man.



Or maybe because, like, he's a violent lying shitbag?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Interesting to note how many of the fine folks around here have complete faith in the British judicial system.
> 
> Wonder how/if the judge dismissed this bit of evidence
> 
> ...



Very little faith in your justice system.

Even less faith in wifebeaters.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> The newspapers have been partisan. It's the YouTubers who have delved into this story. If it was up to the newspapers we'd all believe AH's story.
> 
> It's also the You Tubers who have looked into Judge Nichols connections to AH & The Sun. Not to mention his son works for the radio station that is owned by the Sun. I would do your research first before making inane & uneducated comments!
> 
> The judge dismissed police records, the staff who worked at the Columbia Building, JD's own security staff & took the word of a freeloader AH's pal who was living off Depps money.


oh fuck off with that.


----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2021)

Got to wonder what's gone wrong in a person's life when they find themselves at gone ten on a sunday night at the start of a shiny new year, signing up to an obscure south-london messageboard so they can pretend to be a feminist while pushing conspiracy theories about Johnny Depp's dirty underwear.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 3, 2021)

Johnny Depp 'did not get fair trial', lawyers tell appeal court
					

Judge dismissed Depp’s libel claim last month but actor seeks new trial over assault allegations




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

I mention the Scum, because that's where this story came from and has been parroted by the mainstream press.

I have no sympathy for misogyny or incel hatred. What I do despise is points of view that parrot the mainstream media story, without looking into the background evidence. All those who support AH can't have looked at the evidence. Not just the court documents, but the tapes which are damning of AH. 

She has fucked the #MeToo movement because it is now represented by a domestic abuser. She has also fucked male victims of domestic abuse, who like JD will not be believed if they chose to come forward.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

I've been a member for donkey's years dude. Look me up.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

Since April 2002 in fact!


----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I've been a member for donkey's years dude. Look me up.


whatever, you're still fucked.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 3, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Johnny Depp 'did not get fair trial', lawyers tell appeal court
> 
> 
> Judge dismissed Depp’s libel claim last month but actor seeks new trial over assault allegations
> ...



Um..his lawyers would have been instructed by him.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I mention the Scum, because that's where this story came from and has been parroted by the mainstream press.
> 
> I have no sympathy for misogyny or incel hatred. What I do despise is points of view that parrot the mainstream media story, without looking into the background evidence. All those who support AH can't have looked at the evidence. Not just the court documents, but the tapes which are damning of AH.
> 
> She has fucked the #MeToo movement because it is now represented by a domestic abuser. She has also fucked male victims of domestic abuse, who like JD will not be believed if they chose to come forward.



Bollocks.

Suffered from domestic abuse years back and was believed. 

But have also seen how charismatic fucks like Depp can be darlings in public and shits behind doors.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

Been a member longer than you killer b. 

So go swivel on my middle finger


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Been a member longer than you killer b.
> 
> So go swivel on my middle finger



No need to advocate sexual violence


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

All I am really saying at this moment is the slogan #BelieveAllWomen is fucked because a woman lied. If y'all believe her fine - I don't, having read and listened to the evidence.

Get over it, this is not a personal attack, so stop taking it like one. (Well apart from the go swivel comment)!


----------



## colacubes (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I am not enabling anyone. I've said they were both as bad as each other on the drug and alcohol front.
> 
> If you don't want to look at the taped evidence fine, but don't rely on newspaper 'truth' because it's lies. They've taken AH's word because she is a woman. They've dismissed JD's evidence because he is a man.



Why do you hate women?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> If y'all believe her fine -* I don't,having read and listened to the evidence.*


no you haven't.
this reminds me of all the armchair detectives who jizzed/gushed themselves in excitement at the Amanda Knox trial, claiming authority without knowing all of the facts


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

Yes you do! No you don't. Stop behaving like a kid, unless you are one of course. I don't care whether you believe me or whether you disagree with me. I am entitled to an opinion just as you are.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> If y'all believe her fine - I don't, having read and listened to the evidence.



So do you think he never hit her at all?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Yes you do! No you don't. Stop behaving like a kid, unless you are one of course. I don't care whether you believe me or whether you disagree with me. I am entitled to an opinion just as you are.


says the person who believes YouTube videos over court evidence


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

He admitted to pushing her away, to headbutting her accidentally & scraping a door over her toes as he tried to shut himself in a bathroom to stop her hitting him. She admitted to hitting him once in self-defence. Apparently, to stop him throwing her sister down some stairs. Her sister said she thought AH was going to kill him one day. She also threw many bottles, cans & pots & pans at him & severed the end of his finger. That same day she put a cigarette out on his face. His injuries are seen on the hospital trolley images. 

This is what she said in court, but not what she said on the recorded conversations with Depp. In those conversations she admitted to being the aggressor & was calling him a baby, because he always leaves when she starts becoming violent.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 3, 2021)

She just dragged herself over glass.
Hit herself in the face. 
Kicked herself around.
Ripped off her own nightgown.
Bruised her own breasts while tying to strangle herself.

Well? 

She's making it all up in your opinion ms antagonie.

Why though? Why would she bother? She didnt take him to court for assault.  She and he got divorced. She didnt take his money she gave it away. She refused his 50k a month too. 
She wrote abour her experiences of being physically assaulted in relationships. Didnt actually mention him..but he jumped at that and decided...it was about him. 

To me it looks like he was hapoy to split and forget how fucked up the relationship was and what he became when he was with her. He became a physically abusive person. She admits slapping him. Judging by his physique I would hazard a guess that a slap from him would be fucking painful...she called him baby. So what? He was clearly volatile and when under the influence of drugs alcohol whatever he clearly lost control.  

Which of these does the most harm? 
A rolling pebble? 
A rolling boulder? 

The guy assaulted her ...with force. If he believes ge has a case against her for assault then let him take it? My guess is he wont. Because he did what he did when he was in his self admitted "monster" mode.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

Orangutan you certainly live up to your moniker. I doubt you've read the court evidence or the recorded evidence. Come back and have a reasonable conversation when you've read more than the tabloid reports. 

Don't you think it a little strange that there are no photos, although she took hundreds of photos, of any of the injuries she claimed to have sustained. The night before she went onto the James Corden show, she was supposedly cut to ribbons, her eye popped out! And she had a broken nose and two black eyes. She reckons she had a good make-up artist who was able to cover all this up!

If you read her evidence it is all circumstantial, no proof. Why did she take photos of a mirror with writing on, but NEVER took ANY photos of her so called injuries. When you delve in, her story doesn't make any sense.
IO Tillet Wright her friend and staunch supporter is as we speak, busily deleting facebook, instagram and text messages because they have been subpoenaed to appear in VA.


----------



## pogofish (Jan 3, 2021)

D'wards said:


> And the fact she duffed up Depp, duffed up her ex partner and duffed up her sister



A lot of this was from the very outset - before the trial/divorce case was heard and before any significant evidence emerged or was widely publicised here.

At the time it looked far more like an attempt to paint her into one of their favourite "damaged goods"/"evil woman" stereotypes than any kind of opinion based on what emerged in court.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Listen to the tapes which are irrefutable evidence of her violence towards him & don't believe everything you read in the newspapers, especially not the Scum! And if you can't be arsed doing that you've got nothing to say that I need to listen too, because you are just parroting the tabloids.


Where can one listen to the tapes?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

YouTube would be a good place to start. That Umberella Guy has broken down the court documents, spiritually empowered coaching has 5 hours of recorded evidence, you can download the docs from YouTube as well, then there's StevieJRaw an Australian YouTuber and Come Geek some a Welsh YouTuber. TUG That Umberella Guy goes into the most detail.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

Oh and Darth News who is bloody hilarious!


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 3, 2021)

It is clear they had a volatile "passionate" dangerous physically abusive relationship.  I'd say his addictions and hers drove them batshit crazy together. And yes...he turned into someone nobody else knew. He did not control himself and I believe he threw bottles at her and smashed her over a table just as I believe she called him names and bullied him with comments and slapped him.  

I believe she was bruised and covered it up well with makeup. I belueve he wasnt the first person to hit her. The whole thing is horrible.

What struck me about him was this. After the divorce settlement. She decided she wanted to give her 7 million to a civil liberties charity she had volunteered with for 10 years. Depp decided he would bypass her completely and just give the money to charity directly. That said a lot about him. 

He's not squeaky clean by any means.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 3, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> YouTube would be a good place to start. That Umberella Guy has broken down the court documents, spiritually empowered coaching has 5 hours of recorded evidence, you can download the docs from YouTube as well, then there's StevieJRaw an Australian YouTuber and Come Geek some a Welsh YouTuber. TUG That Umberella Guy goes into the most detail.


I’ve just had a look at those and they’re all deranged and even more untrustworthy than the tabloids you criticise


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 3, 2021)

He gave the money to charity but she didn't. He gave it on her behalf because he knew she wouldn't. She has been riding on what a charitable person she is, but has refused at every turn to show proof of her charitable giving. She has now been subpoenaed to provide that proof for the upcoming court case in VA.


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I’ve just had a look at those and they’re all deranged and even more untrustworthy than the tabloids you criticise


but spiritually empowered coaching has five hours of recorded evidence, man. You can't argue with that.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Wow what have you looked at Buffoon? Surely you can't have given anything due consideration if you've read and listened to the hours of podcasts in 5 minutes?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Are they as deranged as you I'm wondering!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Wow what have you looked at Buffoon? Surely you can't have given anything due consideration if you've read and listened to the hours of podcasts in 5 minutes?


I've googled the people and they're dodgy as fuck and I've seen the captions and graphics from the thumbnails and that's quite enough. I'm not giving them any clicks as I prefer not to fund loons


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

I think they'd really have to go some if they're more deranged than the tabloids. Go on, give it a try, do some research of your own & take longer than 5 mins!


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

You are the one who is dodgy as fuck mate. Stop being a ridiculous buffoon!

BTW it's free, so you are not funding loons as you call them, unless you want to of course


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> You are the one who is dodgy as fuck mate. Stop being a ridiculous buffoon!
> 
> BTW it's free, so you are not funding loons as you call them, unless you want to of course


clicks mean advertising revenue as you well know. I avoid those channels in the same way I avoid reading leaflets that religious nutters who hang out on street corners give out


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> do some research of your own


HOUSE!


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

None of those people get advertising revenue & don't have adds on their channels because YouTube doesn't approve of their content. So no excuse. But if you'd rather just blather about something you clearly know very little about, go ahead.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Do you really believe that he did not hurt her?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> None of those people get advertising revenue & don't have adds on their channels because YouTube doesn't approve of their content. So no excuse. But if you'd rather just blather about something you clearly know very little about, go ahead.


I don't need to know the views of a crackpot with an unhealthy and questionable obsession about a celebrity's personal life.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Sugar Kane I've already said what he did & what she did. They were both as bad as each other drinking & drugs wise, but she was the main abuser. Listen to the tapes!


----------



## two sheds (Jan 4, 2021)

He only needs to have hit her once to be found guilty in that trial though doesn't he?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Well buffoon, if everyone is a crackpot according to you, what's the point in posting on this thread. If you are not interested in delving deeper, not because they are celebrities, but because this is an important political  issue of our times, then bury your head in the sand.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

That is correct two sheds. It is about the balance of probabilities not  beyond reasonable doubt. And on the balance of probabilities the judge decided after ignoring JD's evidence & witnesses that AH was telling the truth & so he agreed with the scum that JD is a wife beater.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Well buffoon, if everyone is a crackpot according to you, what's the point in posting on this thread. If you are not interested in delving deeper, not because they are celebrities, but because this is an important political  issue of our times, then bury your head in the sand.


I just don't listen to gossip and that's basically what these YouTube channels and threads like this and the Knox one are


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

I dug about a bit on That Umbrella Guy, and he appears to be a notorious Internet misogynist. Haven't bothered looking into any of these other freaks yet, but I've few doubts they're any better.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

How do you know Buffoon? Did you watch any of them? Or are you jumping to more conclusions, as you've done all the way through this thread?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Killer b TUG is married with two daughters. He's not a misogynist he's someone who believes in truth & justice. 

Don't just 'dig around' go in and listen.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> How do you know Buffoon? Did you watch any of them? Or are you jumping to more conclusions, as you've done all the way through this thread?


I told you I have no interest delving any further into cranks and bigots’ views on the internet. Here is quite enough


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Killer b TUG is married with two daughters. He's not a misogynist he's someone who believes in truth & justice.
> 
> Don't just 'dig around' go in and listen.


Oh yes, you can’t be a misogynist if you have a wife or daughters


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

This is my last post to you, you silly buffoon. I haven't got the patience to keep replying to your fuckwittery.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Can you not call people buffoon?

I used to really like Johnny Depp.  But this whole shitshow has shown me that celebrity actors..are not real....well....who really knows them? 
I certainly dont. But reading how he dipped his cut finger into paint and scrawled messages on a mirror...pretty much led me to the opinion that he wasn't who I thought he might have been.

There are no winners in this
..apart from newspapers and media...making money yet again out of misery. 

I dont have much sympathy for either of them. JD or AH. They live priveledged lives. They play with people.  They do what they want when they want with whomever they want. 

Fuckem
Both of them.


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Killer b TUG is married with two daughters. He's not a misogynist he's someone who believes in truth & justice.
> 
> Don't just 'dig around' go in and listen.


I'm not going to listen to a notorious misogynist youtuber ranting about a court case I don't care about, sorry.


----------



## cloudyday (Jan 4, 2021)

How many buffoon's does it take to change an opinion?


----------



## BoxRoom (Jan 4, 2021)

cloudyday said:


> How many buffoon's does it take to change an opinion?


A billioon.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Two people chatting...

A: How do you spell buffoon?

B: Do you want the British, or American spelling?

A: British or American!? What are you on about?

B: Well the British spelling is J, O, H, N, S, O, N. And the American spelling is T, R, U, M, P.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Sugar Kane - he calls himself a clownish buffoon. He is demonstrating his clownishness & his buffoonery. What can I say when he acts like a buffoonish troll.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Sugar Kane - he calls himself a clownish buffoon.




Ah.. I see...

Carry on..





🥳


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

No offence Orang Utan old bean...
❤


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Sugar Kane said:


> No offence Orang Utan old bean...
> ❤


Don’t know what you guys are on about 
🧐


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Don’t know what you guys are on about
> 🧐




This is why we love you...

🥳❤


----------



## wtfftw (Jan 4, 2021)

bimble said:


> Totally beyond me how people can even be bothered to follow this shitshow and pick a side in some hideous couple you’ll never meet & you know you have no chance of knowing what the truth of any of it is. Just bizarre. Probably the same people who avidly watch those shows with celebs trapped in a house for months fighting in their pyjamas. Weird.


Oh I quite like the celebrities trapped in a house fighting in their pyjamas shows.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

bimble said:


> Totally beyond me how people can even be bothered to follow this shitshow and pick a side in some hideous couple you’ll never meet & you know you have no chance of knowing what the truth of any of it is. Just bizarre. Probably the same people who avidly watch those shows with celebs trapped in a house for months fighting in their pyjamas. Weird.


it's because it's come to court and there's a great history of people taking sides in court cases - you might find the example of the 19th century case of the tichbourne claimant particularly interesting. I'm sorry this is beyond you as it's really remarkably simple.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:
			
		

> It's also the You Tubers who have looked into Judge Nichols connections to AH & The Sun. Not to mention his son works for the radio station that is owned by the Sun. I would do your research first before making inane & uneducated comments!



Station between East Ham and Upney...


----------



## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> it's because it's come to court and there's a great history of people taking sides in court cases - you might find the example of the 19th century case of the tichbourne claimant interesting. I'm sorry this is beyond you as it's really remarkably simple.


Nah, it’s not the courtroom drama. The fact is that everybody with an intense interest in this particular case is a weirdo and 97% of them hate women.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> it's because it's come to court and there's a great history of people taking sides in court cases - you might find the example of the 19th century case of the tichbourne claimant particularly interesting. I'm sorry this is beyond you as it's really remarkably simple.


condescending arse


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

bimble said:


> Nah, it’s not the courtroom drama. The fact is that everybody with an intense interest in this particular case is a weirdo and 97% of them hate women.





bimble said:


> Totally beyond me how people can even be bothered to follow this shitshow and pick a side in some hideous couple you’ll never meet & you know you have no chance of knowing what the truth of any of it is. Just bizarre. Probably the same people who avidly watch those shows with celebs trapped in a house for months fighting in their pyjamas. Weird.


I don't know why you move from not understanding why people follow the JD/AH case to declaring almost everyone with an intense interest in the matter is a misogynist weirdo. I didn't bring up events in the courtroom: but like you I think many people base their support for one or other party based less on the facts of the matter than projecting their own ideas of the protagonists onto the principals in the case. But I don't think all depp's supporters are misogynist weirdos, I think a great number of them have grown up watching him on screen and mistake his public persona for the private reality. They have been let down by someone they admired.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> condescending arse


 boring shitstain


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> condescending arse





Pickman's model said:


> boring shitstain



Happy New Year!


----------



## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> I don't know why you move from not understanding why people follow the JD/AH case to declaring almost everyone with an intense interest in the matter is a misogynist weirdo. I didn't bring up events in the courtroom: but like you I think many people base their support for one or other party based less on the facts of the matter than projecting their own ideas of the protagonists onto the principals in the case. But I don't think all depp's supporters are misogynist weirdos, I think a great number of them have grown up watching him on screen and mistake his public persona for the private reality. They have been let down by someone they admired.


Yes the other 3% are the kind of weirdos who also can’t let go of michael Jackson cos he was so good at dancing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Happy New Year!


the new year has only just begun, the 12 days of xmas have not quite elapsed, but the jovial good humour of winterval has almost entirely dissipated


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

bimble said:


> Yes the other 3% are the kind of weirdos who also can’t let go of michael Jackson cos he was so good at dancing.


Oh. I thought you were going to say the other 3% were supporters of Amanda Heard.


----------



## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

I took down all the Christmas decorations too early and I really miss them now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

bimble said:


> I took down all the Christmas decorations too early and I really miss them now.


Next time celebrate the western and russian christmases


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Oh. I thought you were going to say the other 3% were supporters of Amanda Heard.


Is she one of amber's sisters?
I've not been following any of this


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

We've had Amanda de cabinet mentioned on here already.

I think I might be mixing several women up with Amanda Hugankiss - story of my life


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

tufty79 said:


> Is she one of amber's sisters?
> I've not been following any of this


Good point well made 

Dky I typed Amanda when I was thinking Amber


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Good point well made


I haven't had that said to me for years 

And I haven't even had coffee yet


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Dky I typed Amanda when I was thinking Amber


I do
Pm incoming, PM

Well, after I've written it and had coffee. Should I go full caff?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 4, 2021)

There is a lack of "buffoon" on this page of the thread.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

mwgdrwg said:


> There is a lack of "buffoon" on this page of the thread.


Stop this buffoonery right now.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

So, just listening to that 'crackpot' Stevie J Raw who breaks it down into v. simple steps for those who really can't be bothered looking at the facts. Just listen instead. You can still post inanities while you listen. The stream is called 'Johnny Depp Article slams Amber Heard with facts'.


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

are you Stevie J Raw?


----------



## D'wards (Jan 4, 2021)

Some indication of the "mood of the nation" with the levels of support AH and JD have.

You just have to search either of their names on twitter to see what people think.


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

I had a dig into Stevie J Raw last night too, and found his Patreon which is both a bit tragic (only 6 patrons prepared to actually pay for his NEWS & ENTERTAINMENT content) and incredible (that anyone at all is prepared to pay more than 100 pounds a year to listen to some loon ranting about Johnny Depp's skiddy Y-fronts)


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Some indication of the "mood of the nation" with the levels of support AH and JD have.
> 
> You just have to search either of their names on twitter to see what people think.
> 
> View attachment 247029


the overwhelming majority of people don't give a shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Some indication of the "mood of the nation" with the levels of support AH and JD have.
> 
> You just have to search either of their names on twitter to see what people think.
> 
> View attachment 247029


To see what people on twitter think.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 4, 2021)

It will be interesting to see how the American trial goes, where the burden of proof is a little different in libel cases I fink, but I'm no legal eagle.

To those condescending to those who have an interest, us the great unwashed love a courtroom drama.
Watched Mangrove last night- brilliant, and the aforementioned OJ Made in America was the best courtroom documentary I've seen. Really fascinating stuff.

Like Crown Court - brilliant off sick from TV viewing. 

This article may explain why so many women support Depp









						HIJACK: How Amber Heard Co-Opted the #MeToo Movement, and How the Mainstream Media Helped Her
					

We as a society have committed to a new and beautiful effort to “Believe Women.” This campaign is geared at reversing the generations-long…




					medium.com


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

it's a tiny subsection of people on twitter too tbf. I'm pretty active on there and literally none of the many people I follow and interact with there has expressed a single opinion on this.


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## wtfftw (Jan 4, 2021)

I'm friends (in real life!) with people who watch reality TV and follow celeb news etc. We're not discussing it.


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## D'wards (Jan 4, 2021)

On the Louis Theroux podcast he interviewed Sia, who gave her full support to JD and Theroux stated the case was "fascinating" whilst implicitly agreeing with her, but not stating so.

But I understand its a convenient way to demonstrate how bright and sophisticated and better than most people you are by taking time out to convey how you don't care about celebrity culture and are above it and would never comment on it, whilst commenting on it


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

I'm commenting on the weird misogynists who obsess over this particular celebrity story, not celebrity culture itself.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 4, 2021)

Do you include the women who support Depp in the misogynist camp?

Anyway, no point further commenting on this case until there are further developments. 

There comes a realisation that arguing with strangers on the internet is literally the worst use of a person's time possible.
Everyone will have something better to do - I've got quite a good book on the go - and consider any time on social media as time away from reading.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 4, 2021)

wtfftw said:


> I'm friends (in real life!) with people who watch reality TV and follow celeb news etc. We're not discussing it.


Well you should- its very interesting


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

Lots of women are misogynists, yes. We live in a deeply misogynist society.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Do you include the women who support Depp in the misogynist camp?
> 
> Anyway, no point further commenting on this case until there are further developments.
> 
> ...


Or even away from slough


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## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Killer b. If you're not interested then why don't you STFU? Leave the discussion to people who are interested. Again, this isn't just about a couple of celebs, this is about domestic violence and abuse. 

No I'm not Stevie J Raw. If you're not enamoured by him or anyone else I've mentioned who are looking into the details of this case. Maybe try: Lost Beyond Pluto, she's a lawyer speaking about the legal issues surrounding the case. Sounds dry, but she clarifies a lot of legalese. 

I don't know why you feel the need to keep interjecting BS into a topic that you have no interest in.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 4, 2021)

I think with cases like this  the only position is to be agnostic, in the literal sense, to recognise that the truth is unknowable.
In general if people are gossiping about someones relationship, be it friends, family or famous, my rule of thumb is leave it alone because you can never know what happens behind closed doors. Whatever you see or think you know is never the full picture.
In this case two rich people with expensive lawyers have brought some of those private goings on into the public eye, but it remains the case you can never truly know what happened.

Its not important to have an opinion, or "belief" on cases like this. What difference does it make to reality what your "belief" is or not?


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## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Cos misogynists are misogyning


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## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Killer b. If you're not interested then why don't you STFU? Leave the discussion to people who are interested. Again, this isn't just about a couple of celebs, this is about domestic violence and abuse.
> 
> No I'm not Stevie J Raw. If you're not enamoured by him or anyone else I've mentioned who are looking into the details of this case. Maybe try: Lost Beyond Pluto, she's a lawyer speaking about the legal issues surrounding the case. Sounds dry, but she clarifies a lot of legalese.
> 
> I don't know why you feel the need to keep interjecting BS into a topic that you have no interest in.


I don't care about Johnny Depps underpants, but I do care about weirdos pushing misogynist conspiracy theories about his underpants on urban75


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## krtek a houby (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> The stream is called 'Johnny Depp Article slams Amber Heard with facts'.



As if she hasn't been knocked around enough


----------



## D'wards (Jan 4, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Or even away from slough


There's a row going on, down near Slough indeed


----------



## IC3D (Jan 4, 2021)

I follow this as its interesting from my point of view as I was with a violent woman for years. She literally wrote the book on gaslighting. This case rings so many bells so I'm probably a mysoganist lol


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## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

So we disagree which must make me a misogynist weirdo? Your comments are childish, stop name calling and take your comments out of the playground. If you're not able to do that, go and play with your Lego or something.

It's really baffling to me, all these guys professing their lack of interest in a couple of celebs, denying this has much broader implications for domestic abuse issues, and refusing to engage in an adult conversation, who only want to name call, yet won't shut up about it. Go and engage with something you are interested instead. You are acting like imbeciles.

I don't care about Johhny Depp's underpants either, and I don't care about comments from idiots like you.

If you're not interested STFU!



I


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## krtek a houby (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> So we disagree which must make me a misogynist weirdo? Your comments are childish, stop name calling and take your comments out of the playground. If you're not able to do that, go and play with your Lego or something.
> 
> It's really baffling to me, all these guys professing their lack of interest in a couple of celebs, denying this has much broader implications for domestic abuse issues, and refusing to engage in an adult conversation, who only want to name call, yet won't shut up about it. Go and engage with something you are interested instead. You are acting like an imbeciles.
> 
> ...



You should probably stop name calling.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> So we disagree which must make me a misogynist weirdo? Your comments are childish, stop name calling and take your comments out of the playground. If you're not able to do that, go and play with your Lego or something.
> 
> It's really baffling to me, all these guys professing their lack of interest in a couple of celebs, denying this has much broader implications for domestic abuse issues, and refusing to engage in an adult conversation, who only want to name call, yet won't shut up about it. Go and engage with something you are interested instead. You are acting like an imbeciles.
> 
> ...


I am interested in you and your ilk


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## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

bimble said:


> I took down all the Christmas decorations too early and I really miss them now.




Rule of thumb...in a pandemic do not remove Christmas decorations.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

tufty79 said:


> I do
> Pm incoming, PM
> 
> Well, after I've written it and had coffee. Should I go full caff?




Go for it.


----------



## editor (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> So, just listening to that 'crackpot' Stevie J Raw who breaks it down into v. simple steps for those who really can't be bothered looking at the facts. Just listen instead. You can still post inanities while you listen. The stream is called 'Johnny Depp Article slams Amber Heard with facts'.


I've just looked at that guy's obscure video channel and it's positively obsessed with the topic. Could you explain why you place such great importance on his babblings? And what do you know about the author that suggests that his is a credible voice? Thanks.


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## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I don't care about comments from idiots like you


if you don't like my posts, stop replying to them.


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## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I am interested in you and your ilk




Good afternoon, "distinguished, respected, rational, sensible wally"

Like the new tagline btw...
😁


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## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

The bottom line, for me, is this..
He took action against a newspaper for an article they printed. He did not take action against AH.
The judge declared the article was not libelous and stated a belief that JD had in fact assaulted AH on 12 occasions. Had there been an article about AH assaulting JD and AH brought a libel case against that newspaper then a judge may well have also decided AH has assaulted JD. 

They are both people who did not control themselves, abused drugs, alcohol and each other. 

Neither has taken the other to court for assault....to my knowledge.

The end.


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## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> It's really baffling to me, all these guys professing their lack of interest in a couple of celebs, denying this has much broader implications for domestic abuse issues



Hello can you explain how whatever happened between these two “has much broader implications for domestic abuse issues” please? (Real question).
Do you mean the libel case or something else?


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## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

So Ed, obscure he may be, but so is this message board. You are attacking some YouTubers who you've probably never even listened to. Either because you can't be bothered or you are allowing your prejudice to get the better of you. There are a lot of people out there who have been following this case since the UK court trial. They are people who have looked at and listened to the evidence and and facts who have drawn a different conclusion from the one pedalled by the mainstream media. 

There is a huge campaign #justiceforjohnny, Stevie J Raw is a proponent of that campaign. That's why he probably appears obsessed by this case to you. Don't be taken in by the meta narrative put forward by mainstream media, if you haven't done your own research.  You can slander the YouTubers as much as you like. But they are the people looking into this issue and overturning that meta narrative of #BelieveAllWomen. Not all women tell the truth, just as not all men tell the truth. This is a case that brings that issue to the fore. 

p.s. Buffoon I'm not at all interested in your ilk.
It's plain and simple. If all you want to do is insult people & I can be just as insulting as any idiots on this message board. Go and play in the sand pit & throw sand in someone else's face. I would like a rational conversation about the facts and evidence of this case. And until you've looked at what the facts and evidence are, you have nothing to say that's worth listening to.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2021)

I'm generally non totalitarian but I'm beginning to think theres a case for just burning youtube out of the world and salting the ashes now.


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## Serge Forward (Jan 4, 2021)

Are people still arguing the toss over this pair of wrong 'uns? I know this is urban, but come on you lot


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## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> You are attacking some YouTubers who you've probably never even listened to. Either because you can't be bothered or you are allowing your prejudice to get the better of you.


this is what my friend who posts conspiracy theory content from neo-nazi websites says when I pull her up on it.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> So Ed, obscure he may be, but so is this message board.


Sorry, is there a point here?


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## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

This is an important case for many reasons, firstly as mentioned previously the meta narrative of #MeToo has been hijacked by a domestic abuser & secondly, the meta narrative of #BelieveAllWomen has had a hole blown right through it. Thirdly, men who have been abused by women, which we know is a minority, but it still happens, won't be believed, because we don't believe JD. We laugh at & tell male abuse survivors to 'grow a pair' & stand up for themselves. Abuse isn't only physical it's psychological too. Which all those who have been in an abusive relationship know that the psychological abuse can be as damaging and as lasting as the use of brute force. People seem unwilling to accept that women can be abusive as well as men. Although male abuse centres on brute force, women's abuse tends in the main to focus on the psychological, because generally they don't have the brute force. In this case however, AH was both physically & psychologically abusive. 

I say AGAIN, that if you don't think domestic abuse is important enough for your consideration, and this is just celebrity pap, you should either do your own homework or STFU about it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 4, 2021)

I love the YouTube consiraloonary, you don't know the truth as you haven't educated yourself by watching them, the ones ed just posted add to to more than 19 hours of viewing. No sane human being would watch all that shit, but if you don't you haven't done your research.

Sounds my dog makes when she sees the postie...


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I love the YouTube consiraloonary, you don't know the truth as you haven't educated yourself by watching them, the ones ed just posted add to to more than 19 hours of viewing. No sane human being would watch all that shit, but if you don't you haven't done your research.
> 
> Sounds my dog makes when she sees the postie...


The EU Acquis communautaire is now 90 000 pages. It's the same principle.


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## Combustible (Jan 4, 2021)

Given that whether or not Amber Heard abused Johnny Depp was not what the case was addressing, how does one conclude from the outcome that "we" do not believe that it occurred?


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## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

That’s the massive revelation that makes this case so important Ann Tigonie ?The groundbreaking totally new idea that sometimes women are arseholes too, and sometimes they don’t tell the truth.
Two women every week in this country killed by current or ex partner and your main concern, as a feminist obvs, is that we all watch YouTube videos about johnny depp and stop believing women too much. Inspirational stuff cheers.


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## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

The point, as you would know if you'd read the thread, is that Killer.b suggested that something must be wrong with me, to join an 'obscure' message board on a Sunday evening. I had to point out that I joined this message board in April 2002, BEFORE killer.b And if anyone has a problem with their life it might be killer.b whose post count suggests he doesn't really have a life outside of an 'obscure' as he called it, message board.


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## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

Think of how many 5-hour recordings of Depp Truth I could have listened to instead of nurturing my postcount here. A wasted life.


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## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> This is an important case for many reasons, firstly as mentioned previously the meta narrative of #MeToo has been hijacked by a domestic abuser & secondly, the meta narrative of #BelieveAllWomen has had a hole blown right through it. Thirdly, men who have been abused by women, which we know is a minority, but it still happens, won't be believed, because we don't believe JD. We laugh at & tell male abuse survivors to 'grow a pair' & stand up for themselves. Abuse isn't only physical it's psychological too. Which all those who have been in an abusive relationship know that the psychological abuse can be as damaging and as lasting as the use of brute force. People seem unwilling to accept that women can be abusive as well as men. Although male abuse centres on brute force, women's abuse tends in the main to focus on the psychological, because generally they don't have the brute force. In this case however, AH was both physically & psychologically abusive.
> 
> I say AGAIN, that if you don't think domestic abuse is important enough for your consideration, and this is just celebrity pap, you should either do your own homework or STFU about it.




You are putting words in people's mouths. You are deciding that because of one case all male victims of domestic abuse will be ignored? That's one hell of a stretch to make. 
You're also claimjng AH has taken over #,MeToo.
Women in domestic abuse situations may well be less inclined to speak out BECAUSE people are trashing what a judge has stated about this nasty situation..

Can you for one minute think to yourself...what if JD did actually push her around and fight with her and hit her? Can your brain just accept for a moment that even though she might well be a shouty aggressive person who slapped him,  that he also might have hit her? Can you be impartial? Can you entertain 2 points of view in an effort to understand their fucked up relationship?


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## izz (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> The point, as you would know if you'd read the thread, is that Killer.b suggested that something must be wrong with me, to join an 'obscure' message board on a Sunday evening. I had to point out that I joined this message board in April 2002, BEFORE killer.b And if anyone has a problem with their life it might be killer.b whose post count suggests he doesn't really have a life outside of an 'obscure' as he called it, message board.


Who amongst us does ? I certainly don't have a life 🤣


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## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Yes sometimes women are arseholes too. I don't know why so many of you refuse to accept this. Judging by the statistics, in the domestic violence/abuse arena, they are nowhere near as big arseholes as men. But #BelieveAllWomen is presently being dragged through the gutter.

Funnily enough, I was called a rabid feminist by an arsehole on this message board years ago & decided to adopt it as my moniker. Course he was only being misogynistic, but if the cap fits, wear it.


----------



## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

I’ve never seen hashtag believe all women. Only believe women, without the all.
I think you can relax anyway, the last few years have shown that whatever the hashtags it’s still fine to be president of the USA or a Supreme Court judge when multiple women have accused you of being an abuser. You’re trying to correct a problem that doesn’t exist.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

bimble said:


> I’ve never seen hashtag believe all women. Only believe women, without the all.
> I think you can relax anyway, the last few years have shown that whatever the hashtags it’s still fine to be president of the USA or a Supreme Court judge when multiple women have accused you of being an abuser. You’re trying to correct a problem that doesn’t exist.




..Johnny Depp for president. I can see it... definitely.
So much YouTube support.
On a serious point though..
I'll just add that I think what is really tragic is that ordinary people, men and women are abused daily by their partners and the scummy newspapers don't get involved. 
Men rarely go to the police for help. Only 5% of violence in the home was reported by men last year in Ireland. It's estimated though that 40% of men have been physically abused by their female partner.  

On the other hand...women are 61% more likely to be killed by their partner or ex. 




__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com
				






So there is that inequality to grapple with...


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## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Sugar Kane, 'you've never seen the #BelieveAllWomen, well I guess I must have made it up! 

This isn't about celebs, how many times must I say that. The only reason this is being played out in the media, is because they are celebs. Otherwise, we'd probably never have heard about it.
And nobody thinks JD would be a good candidate for president except you! 

Take issue with the issue not ridiculous periphery stuff. People on here asked where they could listen to the hours of taped conversations between AH & JD. Not one person has said, I listened to the tapes & maybe have a different opinion on the meta narrative. Everyone who has come back with their opinion has said something like they're all 'crackpots' or seem 'obsessed' with this case, or are 'notorious misogynists' (killer.b) even though they haven't watched any of the many channels I listed,  or listened to any of the recordings of their conversations that are in the public domain. Or read the court documents. 

You don't need to search for Johnny Depp, if you prefer, search for Amber Heard instead. There's tons of stuff out there, so don't let your prejudice stop you from researching. Like I said several times, if you can't be arsed because you're not interested or would prefer to shout down people who are interested STFU about it. Go and engage with someone about something you are interested in.


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## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

What do you reckon of this Ann



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/believe-women-was-a-slogan-believe-all-women-is-a-strawman/2020/05/11/6a3ff590-9314-11ea-9f5e-56d8239bf9ad_story.html
		


I think you’ve been taken for a ride.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Yea, like I said, I must have made it up! Opps


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Sugar Kane, 'you've never seen the #BelieveAllWomen, well I guess I must have made it up!
> 
> This isn't about celebs, how many times must I say that. The only reason this is being played out in the media, is because they are celebs. Otherwise, we'd probably never have heard about it.
> And nobody thinks JD would be a good candidate for president except you!
> ...




I never mentioned believe all women.  Someone else did.
My JD for president was sarcasm.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

That was ME!


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> That was ME!




Well why in Gods name are you arguing with yourself?


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Can you comment on this Ann Tigonie ?




Sugar Kane said:


> ..Johnny Depp for president. I can see it... definitely.
> So much YouTube support.
> On a serious point though..
> I'll just add that I think what is really tragic is that ordinary people, men and women are abused daily by their partners and the scummy newspapers don't get involved.
> ...


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

I did say the # was believe All Women, but I was mistaken, the # is #BelieveWomen. My mistake. It was Bumble focussing on that not you, sorry. 

I'm playing tennis with imbeciles so it's not easy to keep up with who said what. 

I made an error, apologies.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 4, 2021)

bimble said:


> What do you reckon of this Ann
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks a bit of a parallel to AllLivesMatter as a response to BlackLivesMatter


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I'm playing tennis with imbeciles


You're smashing those balls right out of the court. it's like watching Tim Henman in his prime.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2021)

killer b said:


> You're smashing those balls right out of the court. it's like watching Tim Henman in his prime.


6!


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I did say the # was believe All Women, but I was mistaken, the # is #BelieveWomen. My mistake. It was Bumble focussing on that not you, sorry.
> 
> I'm playing tennis with imbeciles so it's not easy to keep up with who said what.
> 
> I made an error, apologies.




Forgive me for saying but you seem really very stressed about all of this. 
Maybe a wee break would be  good thing? 

From my experience of posters here...most are not imbeciles and bimble is ok.

Just chill a bit..


----------



## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Looks a bit of a parallel to AllLivesMatter as a response to BlackLivesMatter


As the article points out, there are parallels yes. Not a mistake, a reactionary effort to undermine and discredit.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Yes, there is massive inequality to contend with. I've said several times that there appear from the stats that there are more arsehole in the male arena than the female arena. That more men are accused of being physical abusers than women. Because more men are physical abusers because they aren't as sophisticated verbally as most women. NAMNAW. Boys are taught to use their fists (brute force) .
& girls are taught to use language (psychological abuse).

We know this from the stats. And if you are being physically abused by your partner, you are less likely to use psychological abuse in retaliation, because you're probably terrified you might be battered to death. As far as murder goes, in this arena. Brute force wins out.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Bit of a leap to say men are not as sophisticated as women?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Yes, #AllLivesMatter is a reactionary response to #BlackLives Matter. From racist bigots who can't bear the thought of their own racism being put in the spotlight.

I have said I made a mistake with that # and apologised. It was my mistake. I have somehow conflated the two. Terrible, terrible error on my part.

Sugar Kane, I also said NAMNAW did you not see that part, or are you just cherry picking what you feel you ought to attack.

It is widely acknowledged (wait for the attack) that in general, boys are taught brute force to win an argument and girls are taught to use verbal dexterity. NAMNAW!!

This may not be the case so much these days. Because we don't find brute force as palatable as we used to. More boys are being taught that brute force is the last bastion of homicidal maniacs, and they should develop their verbal dexterity to win arguments.

NAMNAW!!


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Yes, #AllLivesMatter is a reactionary response to #BlackLives Matter. From racist bigots who can't bear the thought of their own racism being put in the spotlight.
> 
> I have said I made a mistake with that # and apologised. It was my mistake. I have somehow conflated the two. Terrible, terrible error on my part.
> 
> ...



Why are you accusing me of attacking you ? 
I'm not attacking anything ... I am absolutely supporting the facts about femicide. 
And I have also clearly acknowledged that men are also victims of abuse.


----------



## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

You might consider just getting one of these, hours of fun and you don’t need to attempt to actually engage with anyone else.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

I wish some of you would engage with some of my posts, instead of expecting me to engage or explain some of the ridiculous counter arguments that some of you have posted. NAMNAW! NAMNAW!


----------



## keybored (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> NAMNAW! NAMNAW!


Is that from Mork & Mindy?


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

keybored said:


> Is that from Mork & Mindy?



Welcome to the Namnaw google satellite map! This place is situated in Langkho, Shan, Burma, its geographical coordinates are 20° 24' 41" North, 98° 5' 58" East and its original name (with diacritics) is Namnaw.

Wish we were there...☺️


----------



## killer b (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I wish some of you would engage with some of my posts, instead of expecting me to engage or explain some of the ridiculous counter argument that some of you have posted. NAMNAW! NAMNAW!


It's because you're ridiculous, your posts are ridiculous, and your sources are maniacs. The only engagement you're going to get here is bored trolls. probably best give up on it tbh.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I did say the # was believe All Women, but I was mistaken, the # is #BelieveWomen. My mistake. It was Bumble focussing on that not you, sorry.
> 
> I'm playing tennis with imbeciles so it's not easy to keep up with who said what.
> 
> I made an error, apologies.


The user is bimble not bumble.

Calling people imbeciles and buffoons because they're not agreeing with your views is rather childish. And your continued insistence that people listen to hours upon hours of tapes/YouTube/whatever is hardly reasonable.

You've been here since 2002, as you like to remind us. Surely you know how urban argues by now?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

I am also supporting the facts about femicide, as I have stated several times. What seems to be the problem then? Yes, men are also victims of abuse, both psychologically & physically. And yes, they are in the minority. This is a case of minority abuse! My argument is, that because JD is a man, we all automatically assume that he must be the abuser. This is not the case. There is information out there, not the meta narrative that many of you seem to be pushing. But recorded evidence of conversations between the two of them. It is clear from the 'evidence' not just some 'crackpot, misogynist, obsessed' YouTubers. It's in the public domain, if you care to look. If you can't be arsed, as I've said many times, good for you. Carry on spouting the meta narrative, because it obvs makes y'all feel better about yourselves. NAMNAW! NAMNAW.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 4, 2021)

I think you misunderstood the point of the libel case Ann Tigonie . JDwas claiming it was libel as he wasn't a wife beater. It was proven he was, therefore there was no libel.

Whether or not AH had abused JD wasn't really part of the question.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I am also supporting the facts about femicide, as I have stated several times. What seems to be the problem then? Yes, men are also victims of abuse, both psychologically & physically. And yes, they are in the minority. This is a case of minority abuse! My argument is, that because JD is a man, we all automatically assume that he must be the abuser. This is not the case. There is information out there, not the meta narrative that many of you seem to be pushing. But recorded evidence of conversations between the two of them. It is clear from the 'evidence' not just some 'crackpot, misogynist, obsessed' YouTubers. It's in the public domain, if you care to look. If you can't be arsed, as I've said many times, good for you. Carry on spouting the meta narrative, because it obvs makes y'all feel better about yourselves. NAMNAW! NAMNAW.



To be honest...once the judge stated he believed JD had assaulted her 12 times then JD didnt have even a wooden leg to stand on. 

If he wins his appeal I will be interested enough to eat my Christmas cracker pirate hat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

Sugar Kane said:


> To be honest...once the judge stated he believed JD had assaulted her 12 times then JD didnt have even a wooden leg to stand on.
> 
> If he wins his appeal I will be interested enough to eat my Christmas cracker pirate hat.


you get good stuff out of your crackers


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

If the cap fits, as I've already said, wear it. 

I'm not asking people to listen to hours & hours of YouTube if they aren't interested  in this issue. Just don't pretend that that you know everything that there is to know about this case, when you can't be arsed to look at ANY of the evidence out there. 

Apologies Bimble (not Bumble) - another mistake on my part. Please forgive me, or don't it's up to you!

I have called Orangutan a buffoon, because his moniker is 'clownish buffoon' call me a rabid feminist if you feel like it, because that's my moniker! 

Many of the call outs on this thread have been imbecilic & I stand by my observations. Either engage with the issues or shut up. Really, what's the point of this thread, if we're not allowed to talk about it. 

NAMNAW! NAMNAW!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> If the cap fits, as I've already said, wear it.
> 
> I'm not asking people to listen to hours & hours of YouTube if they aren't interested  in this issue. Just don't pretend that that you know everything that there is to know about this case, when you can't be arsed to look at ANY of the evidence out there.
> 
> ...


a moniker is a name. eg my moniker is not 'every man and every woman is a star', it is pickman's model


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Thanx for showing up pickman. It was you I think who called me a rabid feminist many years ago. Carry on nitpicking if that's what floats your boat! NAMNAW!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Thanx for showing up pickman. It was you I think who called me a rabid feminist many years ago. Carry on nitpicking if that's what floats your boat! NAMNAW!


It was another woman actually, the dear departed Mighty Aphrodite


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> If the cap fits, as I've already said, wear it.
> 
> I'm not asking people to listen to hours & hours of YouTube if they aren't interested  in this issue. Just don't pretend that that you know everything that there is to know about this case, when you can't be arsed to look at ANY of the evidence out there.
> 
> ...




How do you or any youtuber know exactly what went on? 

Tape recordings? Bollocks. They can be fabricated. 

Look. How do you know that AH has not been terrified to take any action against one of the biggest stars in hollywood? She has not taken him to court. Yet a judge has agreed that she was assaulted by Depp.  
She in fact left the relstionship...filed a restraining order because she was afraid of him in some way and did not accept the 50k a month payments or the settlement from the divorce. 
To me...she looks like someone who really does not want anything from him. She wants nothing to do with him. 

Can you allow that some space in your mind while JD and his buddies flood social media with his version of his truth?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Good for you, for doing your research. Pickman's could have said it though, it's congruent with his line of thinking. I see you've changed you caption, but you'll always be a clownish buffoon to me! NAMNAW!


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> NAMNAW


Are you doing the ambulance sound wrong there?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2021)

I found Anne Tigonie to be a useful and informed poster on a thread about - i think, wages for housework - years ago. There you go.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

Fair enough, I'll stop the mild teasing now.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

butchersapron said:


> I found Anne Tigonie to be a useful and informed poster on a thread about - i think, wages for housework - years ago. There you go.




What's that got to do with the price of beef?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 4, 2021)

Sugar Kane said:


> To be honest...once the judge stated he believed JD had assaulted her 12 times then JD didnt have even a wooden leg to stand on.
> 
> If he wins his appeal I will be interested enough to eat my Christmas cracker pirate hat.



He’s been denied the chance to appeal. Cos...

A: it was clear that he hit her
B: some mad tinfoil bollocks from YouTube about a corrupt judge with links to The Sun.


Not sure which.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

Who can know? It'll forever be a valid debate.
E2a I welcome your rabid, Ann. It takes balls to stand your ground here. And I'm a fan of fierce feminists in general. Welcome back.

I am sometimes a bit feral, but I have had all my jabs/my innocilations are current.


----------



## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

Meta Narrative


Sugar Kane said:


> What's that got to do with the price of beef?


I blame youtube .


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Sugar Kane - AH took out the restraining order out after Depp told her he wanted a divorce & was no longer willing to capitulate to her demands. I've listed many of them be4 so no need to list them all again. She told him, that unless he capitulated, she would blow things up! And no-one would believe Depp, because he's a man. They both signed NDA's and promised each other that they would not start stirring shit up. Unfortunately, AH was unable to keep to her side of the bargain and became a spokesperson for the ACLU & for the #MeToo movement. This is after she's already been arrested for DV against her previous partner Tasya Van Ree. This is all out there in the public domain. Years later as JD has been implicated in domestic violence through her Op Ed & the Scum labelling him a 'Wife-Beater' took this libel claim to court  in an attempt to clear his name. He has no history of DV but AH does. Not just with her previous partner, but with her sister too. And psychological bullying/abuse with nearly everyone who ever worked for her.

In terms of recorded conversations being fabricated. All you need to do is listen to some of them. If you think AH is not an abuser, the conversations, of which there are many, may disabuse you of that notion. There's a 5 hour conversation, not between JD & AH. but between AH & JD's security team, after he was taken to hospital, with his finger severed & a cigarette put out on his face. It does not show AH in a favourable light at all.  The security team are there to calm AH down get her away from Australia, where they were staying, and clean up the trashed house that JD was renting, whilst filming the Pirates of the Caribbean. So, as I've said many, many times, if you can't be arsed to read or listen to the evidence that is in the public domain, and only want to shout it down as, "it's all made up" or it "could be fabricated" then there's not much else to say. NAMNAW! NAMNAW!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 4, 2021)

How many more times, no one is saying Heard is not an abuser, but the case was about whether Depp was being libelled by The Sun who stated that he hit her, the judge found that he did, 12 times.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Bimble, you obvs don't know what that phrase means, or you wouldn't be asking what it's got to do with the price of beef. Just stop, think for one minute what you are saying, and hopefully you'll understand what it means.

NAMNAW!


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Banhof Strasse, How many more times do I need to say stop paying attention to the meta narrative and pay a little attention to the evidence. Not what a single judge decided is the 'truth' of the case, but the EVIDENCE in the public doman. 

NAMNAW!


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

NAMNAW! is a phrase used constantly when discussing feminist issues in these forums. It means NOT ALL MEN, NOT ALL WOMEN. Shortened for ease of repeatedly having to stress the point.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Banhof Strasse, How many more times do I need to say stop paying attention to the meta narrative and pay a little attention to the evidence. Not what a single judge decided is the 'truth' of the case, but the EVIDENCE in the public doman.
> 
> NAMNAW!



Which evidence? The stuff the judge made his decision on, or some other stuff that Depp’s lawyers failed to present to the judge?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> NAMNAW! is a phrase used constantly when discussing feminist issues in these forums. It means NOT ALL MEN, NOT ALL WOMEN. Shortened for ease of repeatedly having to stress the point.



We know, what is curious is why you are repeating it on every reply..?


----------



## two sheds (Jan 4, 2021)

To make himself look like an obsessive?


----------



## bimble (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Bimble, you obvs don't know what that phrase means, or you wouldn't be asking what it's got to do with the price of beef. Just stop, think for one minute what you are saying, and hopefully you'll understand what it means.
> 
> NAMNAW!


I don’t know what you are on about what phrase but tbh I’ve got other worries right now than trying to guess what is going on in your brain.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

I've only felt the need to add the not all... disclaimer when blokes have insisted on pointing out that THEY'RE not like that.

It's unnecessary in the right company, which I think this place counts as?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

To make herself look like a person who is aware of all the counter arguments when feminism is up for discussion. There are a lot of idiots who come in shouting, well that's not my experience, so what you're saying can't be true. Try to forget your experience of whatever you're an authority on & look at the specifics. 

I can remember whole threads filled with NAMNAW! because every idiot out there who wanted to weigh in with their two pennies worth would shout 'But that's not me! Or any of the men I know". Or 'that's not me, or any of the women I know'. NAMNAW!


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

You have only got to read this thread Tufty, to see this is exactly the right company for NAMNAW!


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

That's my fault for not fully reading the full thread until the last page or two, or half the actual posts since, tbf.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Bimble, you were critical of the phrase "meta narrative" & wondering what it's got to do with the price of beef. I asked you to stop & for one moment to think about that phrase, or look it up if you're unclear, then maybe you'll understand what it has to do with the price of beef. NAMNAW!


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

I think she meant me bimble e . I reponded to someone else's post ... 

It's getting draining now. 
I'm actually in bed self isolating with a cough and I think I just will take a break from here. 

My posts have been misinterpreted and misrepresented by Ann Tigonie

I will ask you Ann Tigonie why you think JD is completely innocent when he has admitted to jealous rages, smashing stuff and turning into a "monster" (his words)

What I found difficult was the people who rallied round him. Like someone here in Tipperary who claims JD was atrracted to violent women. Which absolutely puts Vanessa de Paradis and all his exes under a microscope..stupid thing to say... so JD obviously told this person he was attracted to violent abusive women. 

😳
Puts a different picture on things doesn't it? So he probably did get involved in violence. And what he doesnt like now is the fact that its out in the open. Would he be happier if she came out to say she had agreed to being hit? 
Or what?  

The whole thing is horrible. And one thing for sure ...JD isn't the jovial happy go lucky guy people thought he was. There's a dark side he needs to get help with.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Like I said, it's hard to keep up with all the brick bats (look it up if you're not sure) that are coming my way.

Boo Hoo, misinterpreted & misrepresented. I think your posts have been perfectly clear and I completely understand where you are coming from. If you read the thread, I've said they are both as bad as each other with regards to drink & drugs. However, being a druggie and a drunkard does not necessarily equate to being a 'WIFE-BEATER' . AH has relied on the public thinking that's exactly what being a druggie & drunk does mean.

I have not said he is completely innocent, this is not black & white, it's shades of grey. I have also previously listed the things he has admitted to doing to AH. AH admitted in the court docs to hitting him once in self defence. Although the tapes as I have repeated ad infinitum paint a completely different picture of her behaviour. The monster referred to JD's drinking, which he took up again, after foolishly marrying AH thinking that it might help to stop her rages, if they were married. She's a supreme projectionist, accusing JD of doing everything & more that she did to him. No wonder he was jealous, Elon Musk & James Franco were staying over when he was away filming. See lift footage in the Columbia Building. They are all over each other, yet according to AH, were just good friends.

Yes, the whole thing is horrible. He said, she said, being played out in the court of public opinion. But it's not just he said, she said. There are texts, documents & video footage suggesting that she said a lot that wasn't true, thinking she would get a huge divorce settlement, hundreds of millions of dollars.  Half & half as it is in California. Instead, she got $7 million, because their divorce was not in the California courts. $7 million she promised to donate to two charities in an attempt to 'prove' she's not a gold digger. . The ACLU who Elon Musk is the greatest contributor towards & on the board of & the Children's Hospital in LA. Unfortunately,  so far it seems, JD was the only person who donated  some money on her behalf, because he knew she was BS'ing. AH has yet to prove that she donated any money to these charities & willfully refuses to provide receipts. Even though newspaper headlines have trumpeted what a charitable person she is!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> the whole thing is horrible. He said, she said, being played out in the court of public opinion.



And in the Royal Courts of Justice.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

Don't trust Justice Nicol, he's up to his eyes in it! Someone said  earlier, JD's appeal has been refused, it was refused by the presiding judge Justice Nicol. However, Depp is now going over his head to the Supreme Court.

May justice eventually see the light of day!

If justice Nicol had admitted the appeal, he would have had to investigate his own errors of judgement.  Naturally, he wasn't prepared to admit he'd made any errors of judgement.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Didnt JD trash a hotel room while Kate Moss was asleep? Arrested for it? 
Back in the 90s was it? 

I dont know why you're going off on me Ann Tigonie ? 
I said they were both abusive. I said she hit him..called him names etc. 
You seem to think JD is pure as the driven snow. I'm just not that naive. I would like to think he is innocent...but he isnt that innocent if he was flying into rages and throwing stuff around the place accusing her of shit because he worked himself up into jealous rages. 
And I am prepared to think maybe she liked pushing his buttons. Maybe he liked it too. 
They've both admitted it as much. JD stating the relationship was volatile passionate and that he had another side he called "the monster". 

Point is ... the court case was against a newspaper. 
Not her. 

Btw are you from or in Ireland?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 4, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Don't trust Justice Nicol, he's up to his eyes in it! Someone said  earlier, JD's appeal has been refused, it was refused by the presiding judge Justice Nicol. However, Depp is now going over his head to the Supreme Court.
> 
> May justice eventually see the light of day!
> 
> If justice Nicol had admitted the appeal, he would have had to investigate his own errors of judgement.  Naturally, he wasn't prepared to admit he'd made any errors of judgement.



Posts #181, 184 and 186 deal with the appeal being denied and debunk the notions of errors of judgement.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ps. Ann Tigonie 
JD admitting headbutting her...on tape. 
So if you are going to start referencing tapes then why not reference that one? 
He denied and denied hitting her until the tape was played. Then all of a sudden he is saying "oh yeah that time I headbutted her after trashing the room was an accident."

One of them two of them.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Conspiracy theory bollocks now ffs


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2021)

Odd shit on these boards  last two days.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 4, 2021)

Two things...

What is this NAMNAW about? And lest we forget:

I did(1) my own(2) research(3)

watched
someone else’s
shitty YouTube video


----------



## two sheds (Jan 4, 2021)

NotAMibbleNotAWibble I think


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Ok. I watched some of the videos on YouTube.  I know I know... 😳🙄
What I don't like is that they dont just play the tape recordings straight.  Some guy interprets before the next bit plays. 
It's clear that the two of them were really not good together. It's also clear he loved her in some way...which is sad. It would appear that she and he were really not on the same page. She demanded stability etc and didnt like that he "split" or left if an argument started
And she seems very mixed up and weirded out at times. Scared of her reputation. Scared of her position. 

The video of him in the kitchen slapping doors and belting things and then he finds she is videoing him..and grabs the phone off her..that was actually scary..I wondered if when the screen went black and shouting was heard..I wondered if he had lost the plot.

In the phone tapes it sounds like she is trying to protect her reputation.  He is trying to convince her to keep everything private and that it will be bad for her if its public.  He says it all in a very calm soothing voice but it was akin to "this will be bad for you if you go public"

All fucked up.


Johnny should have stuck with Winona.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

Johnny should stayed single after Winona, and away from women til sorted his 'iseues' out.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

tufty79 said:


> Johnny should stayed single after Winona, and away from women til sorted his 'iseues' out.




That would do too.. 👍


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Actually what is really horrible is the youtube stuff. A hell of a lot of anti AH.
Not going back to any of that any time soon. Ugh.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

So many videos. Just the sheer number of them surely mitigates against any credibility and only indicates creepy obsession?


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> So many videos. Just the sheer number of them surely mitigates against any credibility and only indicates creepy obsession?



I watched 2 videos. 2 was enough for me. 
The 2016 one where she videoed  JD slamming doors in the kitchen and grabbing her phone.. that was actually quite scary. No doubt about that. 

The other was a recorded phone conversation. Pretty sure it was recorded by Depp. Him telling her it will be bad for both of them if things go public. But worse for her. Her going on about her reputation and asking how TMZ got info about her and pretty much asking him if he leaked it cos nobody else knew....Him asking her to sign letters privately. Her basically saying she can corroborate everything..with witnesses and texts etc... Him getting quiet and then in the end saying essentially "see you in court" . It's also clear that there was an incident with a door where she pushed it and he was at the other side and it hit his head, she saying it was an accident and then he pushed it back and it went over her toes scraping them. She then says she didnt intend the door to hit his head. Then he says he didnt know her toes were under the door. He asks why she hit him. She says she hit him because her toes were hurt. It's all very schoolyard crap. 

I wont get those minutes back. Things I do for urban75. 
😳

Back to Fargo for me

🙂


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

I wasn’t talking about the videos of the toxic two, but the videos other people have dedicated whole channels and hours of ‘content’ to talking about them in tedious detail


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I wasn’t talking about the videos of the toxic two, but the videos other people have dedicated whole channels and hours of ‘content’ to talking about them in tedious detail



Oh God yes...that's another rabbit hole.
I am not going there...


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 4, 2021)

Aargh.

Ann Tigonie in post #428 you claimed up thread the video of her with Franco in a lift that they were "all over each other". 
I had a look. 
Nope. Not true. 
He stood beside her and after a few seconds he put his forehead on her shoulder. Like he was resting.
She stood there head down with her arms folded all the time. She did not touch him. Not once. She did not even raise her head. 

There is a LOT of shit being read into these youtube videos. 

Now someone tell me to go to bed 🙂


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2021)

Sugar Kane said:


> Aargh.
> 
> Ann Tigonie in post #428 you claimed up thread the video of her with Franco in a lift that they were "all over each other".
> I had a look.
> ...


Go to bed


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 4, 2021)

GO TO BED SUGAR x


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 4, 2021)

well Sugar Kane, you obvs haven't really read the thread very closely. Skipped over most of it, it sounds like from your line of questioning. I am not going to keep going over questions that have been posed and already answered, but you didn't bother to read. So this is the last time I will try to explain why I understand things a little differently from you.

JD has been an alcoholic & drug abuser from a young age. However, at the time AH & he met, he was sober, although admittedly smoking a lot of weed. AH was at that time drinking 3 bottles of wine a day, as well as copious amounts of psychotropic drugs & anti-psychotic drugs for her mental health issues. After a time he also started drinking again, although he made several attempts to get sober, he was only successful for a short time.

Both of them are from dysfunctional families who used violence  and coercive control, to keep them in line. His abuse stemmed from his mother, her abuse stemmed from her father. Both of which were alcoholics & drug users.

Sometimes when people come from that type of background, they gravitate to others with similar issues. That's what they know, and what they feel comfortable with. Fucked up eh? But that's life it seems.

She was at the beginning of her career & he was at the zenith of his. He was a powerful man in an industry she was just breaking into. JD gave her the role in 'The Rum Diaries'. He gave her a step up the career ladder and they were both enamoured with each other for a while. Personally, I think someone who marries someone else half their age, must have serious self-esteem issues. He was taken in by a pretty face & she was taken in by his charm, money & pretty face! She pretended to be a huge fan of his, but later admitted that she'd never seen any of his films. She did by her own admission, do a lot of research on him & spent many an hour talking to him about his interests, in an attempt to 'win' him over. It worked too.  Clearly his ego must be v. large & in need of super stroking, which AH provided, at first.

From early on, Ah was filming him in drunken/drugged stupor's. He didn't have the wherewithal or presumably, inclination to film her in her drunken/drugged rages. AH said she did this to show him what a 'monster' he was when he was in a drunken/drugged coma. He agreed with her that this did make him look like a 'monster'. That is what they both referred to whenever he was so drunk, he was almost unconscious, which as time went on, became more & more frequent. All this time though, AH was doing far more alcohol (3 bottles per night, her assistant who replenished all the bottles said). As well as copious amounts of psychotropic and anti-psychotic drugs. I wonder why she is taking anti-psychotic medication. Just a guess, but maybe she's a psycho!

The phone recording you mention in their kitchen, where JD is slamming cupboards, I do think is a form of abuse, but abusing a cupboard is not the same as abusing a person physically. However, the film was dropped when he realised she was secretly recording him again. The film goes on showing AH picking it up again and giggling while following him out of the room.  She was not scared  or frightened of him, she was taunting him, because she knew that morning JD had just found out he had been swindled out of $650 million by his so called tax advisors. It's not in my nature to start slamming a cupboard doors, or to smash inanimate objects, but I understand that day, why he felt the need to.

Anyway, I'm done answering questions that have already been answered or you could find the answer to yourselves, if only you could be arsed. I think I'll go and listen to some 'crackpot, obsessive, misogynistic' YouTubers.

Keep it in the forefront of your mind, that being a drunken/drugged slob, does NOT automatically make you a wife beater. And if you can't do that, there's not much hope for drunken/drugged slobs in this world!

Maybe I'll come back when JD's appeal is heard or the VA trial begins.


----------



## keybored (Jan 5, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I wonder why she is taking anti-psychotic medication. Just a guess, but maybe she's a psycho!


"She's taking anti-inflammatory drugs so I guess she's a fire hazard".


----------



## xenon (Jan 5, 2021)

butchersapron said:


> Odd shit on these boards  last two days.



i’m still not sure why I’ve read this, and the other thread.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 5, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Keep it in the forefront of your mind, that being a drunken/drugged slob, does NOT automatically make you a wife beater.



Careful. 
You're making assumptions about me now.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 5, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Go to bed





tufty79 said:


> GO TO BED SUGAR x



I'm off now. 
Sleep well everyone.


----------



## xenon (Jan 5, 2021)

Sugar Kane said:


> I watched 2 videos. 2 was enough for me.
> The 2016 one where she videoed  JD slamming doors in the kitchen and grabbing her phone.. that was actually quite scary. No doubt about that.
> 
> The other was a recorded phone conversation. Pretty sure it was recorded by Depp. Him telling her it will be bad for both of them if things go public. But worse for her. Her going on about her reputation and asking how TMZ got info about her and pretty much asking him if he leaked it cos nobody else knew....Him asking her to sign letters privately. Her basically saying she can corroborate everything..with witnesses and texts etc... Him getting quiet and then in the end saying essentially "see you in court" . It's also clear that there was an incident with a door where she pushed it and he was at the other side and it hit his head, she saying it was an accident and then he pushed it back and it went over her toes scraping them. She then says she didnt intend the door to hit his head. Then he says he didnt know her toes were under the door. He asks why she hit him. She says she hit him because her toes were hurt. It's all very schoolyard crap.
> ...


 ...this is worse than when I used to listen to police interview tapes. I mean, at least I got paid for that.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 5, 2021)

xenon


Wut are you quoting me for ... I am trying to go to sleeeeeeeeep.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 5, 2021)

xenon said:


> ...this is worse than when I used to listen to police interview tapes. I mean, at least I got paid for that.




Yes. I do realise this. 

I'm really off to sleep now. 

Night 🙂


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 5, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> The user is bimble not bumble.
> 
> Calling people imbeciles and buffoons because they're not agreeing with your views is rather childish. And your continued insistence that people listen to hours upon hours of tapes/YouTube/whatever is hardly reasonable.
> 
> You've been here since 2002, as you like to remind us. Surely you know how urban argues by now?



It usually goes something like Derek & Clive's "this bloke comes up to me..." sketch:

This bloke comes up to me, & he says "you cunt!". I said "who you calling a cunt, you cunt?". He said "you, you cunt". I said "you fucking cunt"...etc etc


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 5, 2021)

ViolentPanda said:


> It usually goes something like Derek & Clive's "this bloke comes up to me..." sketch:
> 
> This bloke comes up to me, & he says "you cunt!". I said "who you calling a cunt, you cunt?". He said "you, you cunt". I said "you fucking cunt"...etc etc


That's given me the 'orn.
Watch out for  potential lobsters, ViolentPanda . ..


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 5, 2021)

Sugar Kane said:


> Careful.
> You're making assumptions about me now.


DOWN WITH THAT SORT OF THING


----------



## bimble (Jan 5, 2021)

Sugar Kane said:


> Rule of thumb...in a pandemic do not remove Christmas decorations.


I'm putting the fairy lights up again, no tree but they can go all over the ceiling, because you are absolutely right, there's no way to get through this next bit without them.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 7, 2021)

bimble said:


> I'm putting the fairy lights up again, no tree but they can go all over the ceiling, because you are absolutely right, there's no way to get through this next bit without them.




It's one reason why the Winterval forum should have also stayed up
🥺


----------



## wtfftw (Jan 7, 2021)

Sugar Kane said:


> It's one reason why the Winterval forum should have also stayed up
> 🥺


and I'm still eating misc chocolates and cheese.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 7, 2021)

On a more "thread related note"
This though...has really made me quite angry. 

"Keep it in the forefront of your mind, that being a drunken/drugged slob, does NOT automatically make you a wife beater. And if you can't do that, there's not much hope for drunken/drugged slobs in this world!" Quote from Ann Tigonie.

Where did anyone state that drunken addicts automatically are abusers? You're some tulip coming out with that shit. 😡

I know people who would not hurt a fly who have alcohol problems and drug dependencies. I know people who were pushed to the limits of their capacity to cope with life who've literally gone through hell in their lives and never lashed out at anyone. 

You have automatically assumed that anyone here who doesn't agree with your opinions on JD / AH , is somehow of the view that all alcoholics and drug addicts are physically abusive.
Fuck off with that flawed thinking.


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 7, 2021)

wtfftw said:


> and I'm still eating misc chocolates and cheese.



I am also only half way through the food stash. 

Still have mince pies and cake 😊


----------



## Aladdin (Jan 7, 2021)

Need some chocolate to calm me down.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 10, 2021)

Minor development.

AH claimed she had donated her $7m divorce settlement from JD to a children's cancer hospital in LA.

She even stated this in the court case and the judge mentioned it in positive terms as good character.

Last week her legal team were forced to admit she hadn't donated a penny of it.

Blimey- i think this thread may play out like a real life Internet bulletin board 12 Angry Men


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Minor development.
> 
> AH claimed she had donated her $7m divorce settlement from JD to a children's cancer hospital in LA.
> 
> ...


Which role are you playing?


----------



## D'wards (Jan 10, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Which role are you playing?


Atticus Finch


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Atticus Finch


Have you updated the diversity of the jury?


----------



## D'wards (Jan 10, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Have you updated the diversity of the jury?


I took a leaf out of Johnny Cochrane's book


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 11, 2021)

Sugar Kane - The drunken drugged slob, is not my narrative, it's the meta narrative. Pot, kettle black an' all that! That's why I've been talking about meta narrative! It's the narrative that AH has been pushing. She's saying, when JD is out of it on drugs & drink etc., He turns into a 'monster' a proper little Jekyll & Hyde and doesn't 'remember' what he's done and what he hasn't. That's why she's been getting away with telling all these horrible lies about him. She managed to convince Judge Nicol in particular.  All he's been saying is, he doesn't remember saying that, or beating her to a pulp, or shredding her to ribbons, because he didn't say or do what she's accusing him of. He's never been violent to a woman EVER, he says. He's a history to back that up. However, AH is the one who does have a history of violence & drug & alcohol abuse. She was arrested for her violence to a previous partner & spent the night in a cell, before charges were dropped, as her partner did not wish to press charges. She's also been violently abusive to her sister & abusive to many people who have worked for her. She 'stole' a rape story one of her assistant's told her & used it as her own. The assistant's testimony - as well as 14 other testimonies supporting Depp's account were dismissed by Judge Nichol, because they were either AH's ex 'disgruntled' employees, employees of the Columbia Building, where they lived, JD's employees and even 4 police officers who testified. Not that I'm saying the police ALWAYS tell the truth, but they had nothing to gain by lying & weren't willing to set JD up, without any evidence and on her testimony alone.

You are arguing blind, because you haven't looked at the evidence or listened to the tapes, where it's clear to anyone with half a brain, that AH is the violent abuser, not JD. I've suggested her motives for setting him up, were financial & PR motives. Obviously if she got her narrative in 1st, it might look to the outside world like nearly every other DV story where the man beats up the woman because he's bigger & stronger.

The details of this case are extensive. The judge decided to dismiss 15 of JD's character witnesses but chose to accept the narrative of one Josh Drew, the now ex-husband of her BFF Rocky Pennington who both lived off JD's money, in one of his penthouses in the Columbia Building LA.

That's why I keep on saying don't believer the tabloids, look at the evidence & listen to the taped conversations, which were taped by AH not JD, on the recommendation of her therapist. All the evidence is there if you care to look. If you don't want to or can't be arsed, you can speak about DV in general, but not this specific case, because you don't know what's been going on in this case, except maybe what you've read in the media, in particular the Scum who published this meta narrative, fairy/horror story in the beginning. Being accused of being a 'wife-beater' by the Scum meant JD had no choice but to come out and defend his name & reputation, unless this was the label that was going to be his legacy.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 11, 2021)

Why do you obsessively keep defending the wife beating has been?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

I am trying to disrupt - it's what I do - the meta narrative in this particular case, because I've read the court docs, listened to the tapes, seen the podcasts, YouTube and on. I've taken some time to go into the details - thanks covid.

You obvs know nothing about it, or you wouldn't make such lame comments & ask such ridiculous questions.

Maybe you dislike him because he's a successful, good looking celebrity. I really don't know, is it envy? I don't get why you have to spout such bile at someone you clearly know eff all about!  I didn't know that much about him & his life before this stuff came up. I could answer questions on Johnny Depp, his life & career on University Challenge now!

You do you & I'll do me!


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

I should have said actor, writer, artist & musician. He's only a celebrity luvvie in the media. Not in his own life.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Maybe you dislike him because he's a successful, good looking celebrity. I really don't know, is it envy? I don't get why you have to spout such bile at someone you clearly know eff all about!  I didn't know that much about him & his life before this stuff came up. I could answer questions on Johnny Depp, his life & career on University Challenge now!



Lol

Been following his career since Nightmare on Elm Street.

Loved his films. Even the crap ones. Even managed to sit through the occasional 21 Jump Street.

Then there's the time he was in Bruxelles. Only time you could call it envy.

But when he started beating up on his wife?

Seen the results of domestic violence perpetrated by charismatic, well-regarded men on their partners.

Only a cunt would get behind someone like that.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Are we getting into it Krtek? Getting into the playground taunts. Well if so, don't diss my fucking fanny you cunt.

That's the whole point of what I've been saying, he didn't start beating up on his wife, his wife started beating up on him, which again, you would know if you knew anything about what's been going on. 

We all know about violence perpetrated by charismatic, well regarded men on their partners. OJ Simpson is an excellent example of that. Hell, he's so charismatic he got away with brutally murdering her. However, we know a lot less about well regarded women abusers.  You have swallowed this overarching meta narrative hook, line & sinker, understandably I suppose because that's how it nearly always is! And that's what AH has banked her reputation on. Don't be taken in by a pretty face, women can be psycho bitches too. NAWNAM!

So, I'm defending him, because women can be abusers & do abuse. NAMNAW!  And in this specific case, not in the generality of things, that's what happened. 

It's not my job to convince you of anything. You believe what you want to believe, whatever floats your boat.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2021)

Have been in an abusive relationship before, so reckon have a reasonably good handle on women abusers. 

And don't be taken in by Depp's pretty face. This self was.

Btw, if it's not your job to convince, why keep trying to? You seem to be taking it very personally.

Are you PR for the wife beating egomaniac?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

I've also got a pretty good handle on both male & female abusers. I reckon many of us have been in some sort of abusive relationships before, parental relationships, as you know can also be abusive. 

When you start calling me a cunt, maybe that's when I start taking it personally, and maybe that's what you want/like.

That's abuse you know, verbal & psychological not physical. They're not all on a par, but whichever abuse you want to dabble in, go for it, if it makes you feel temporarily better about yourself. It won't make you happy in the long term though. All it does is highlight your own abusive tendencies. 

I don't care about his films, or 21 jump street, which I've never seen. It maybe heresy, but I haven't seen most of them, because I've not really been interested in the genres he's devoted himself to. I can separate out the human being from his acting roles though, and see him as a human being, not just some celebrity luvvie or 2nd rate actor. - Will the pixie in the sky forgive me for saying that - & don't tell Johnny, please.

Drag yourself out of that gutter you're in krtek and try to engage one human being to another, without having to call  someone a cunt because we don't agree. 

I know, let's agree to disagree & try to keep it civilised. And if you can't do that STFU!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2021)

Lol.

The irony.

Your pissy little act on this thread consists of name-calling, telling others to sit on your middle finger and fuck off.

So why not do one with the gaslighting. It's boring.


----------



## Jay Park (Jan 12, 2021)

I don't think this person is serious


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Which person Jay? 

My pissy little act, is in response to the pissy little insults thrown my way. I promise I'll never get pissy 1st. But I'm not going to lay down and allow the pissy little boys - I hope it's mainly boys - to throw shade my way, without getting pissy back. Childish I know!

Good idea about a thread on gaslighting, I don't find it boring. I'm interested in psychology see. Add projecting/projection & I'll be there 💋


----------



## Jay Park (Jan 12, 2021)

It doesn't seem you're so serious though, I mean, it seems abundantly clear they had a violent relationship.

I know what you mean about the circle-jerk circus here but don't think you're backing the winner with this.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

You are as entitled as the rest of us to express your opinion Jay.

They did have a violent relationship, because AH was battering JD and projecting her effed up shit onto him. IMO of course. 

It's not about backing a winner for me, it's about talking about issues of DV & without the hysteria! 

We'll agree to disagree without acting pissy eh?


----------



## Jay Park (Jan 12, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> You are as entitled as the rest of us to express your opinion Jay.
> 
> They did have a violent relationship, because AH was battering JD and projecting her effed up shit onto him. IMO of course.
> 
> ...



i can do that, np xx


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Great, you're a better man than me!


----------



## Jay Park (Jan 12, 2021)

Give over


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)




----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Ooo! I can be so pissy 😱

I've just read this thread again & liked all the comments I agree with & laughed at some others! I ignored all those I don't agree with, figuratively not literally


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Crikey Tufty, I didn't know you could LOVE them, or I might have done that  💋


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

mwah, mwah


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

https://80b08171-ce73-4488-b369-fe3934b0504a.filesusr.com/ugd/5df505_efa99136c99548998dae947fc1742a21.pdf


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

If anyone has read what I posted in the link above, tell me what you think. 

Handing it to you on a plate really. 

I've got broad shoulders though - figuratively, not literally - I can take whatever abuse you might like to throw at me!

Don't go all quiet on me now.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I can take whatever abuse you might like to throw at me!
> 
> Don't go all quiet on me now.


Oh no...


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Oh no what Tufty?


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Have you SEEN the language I resort to when angered? I'm like a foul mouthed Stanley Unwin


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Wankpuffin


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Do you feel the need to abuse me? 

Or are you having a laff?


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Crotchbadger 

Do we need ViolentPanda and some Derek and Clive?

I fucking love swearing, especially when it's neither big nor clever 


Ferretcunts 

Apply them to whoever you want, they're all usually aimed at someone specific who has never been a member of the parish of st urban/one off members who I over engaged with who either can't or won't return .x


Fistyotter


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 12, 2021)

monomania


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

C'mon, is that all you've got? 

Did you read what I posted, and if so, what's your view?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 12, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> C'mon, is that all you've got?
> 
> Did you read what I posted, and if so, what's your view?


of course not. i'm not obsessed


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> monomania


Ooh I get monophobia sometimes 
It's why I happily talk to strangers


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Not you Clownish Buffoon, I couldn't give a shit what you think. Your ilk are scum.

'Death is not the greatest loss in life.
The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live'


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Don't make me feel pissy again.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Oooh ! Fire In The Belly is a shared quality we have, I think


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

farmerbarleymow .... SlutParrot? Reclaiming the s word btw


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Don't make me feel pissy again.


Have you got t2 diabetes and/or an irritable bladder too?

Cut down on caffeine, avoid artificial sweeteners, lower carb and low-to-no added sugar are good. Try not to drink an your or so before bed. Plain chocolate with high cocoa content in doses is okay...so avoid honey


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

I think my fire in the belly is coming from the glass of ruby port I'm glugging


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Any port in the perfect storm goes


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

No, but my bladder is probably feeling a little irritable 

Too late re your 3rd or maybe 4th point!


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

You say you're not obsessed clownish buffoon, but you can't seem to stay away from this thread.

Are you projecting baby buffoon?

As you know, that's all you'll ever be for me.

Was that an Annie Lennox song? Or maybe not.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 12, 2021)

bless


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Aww shucks & thanks for your blessing  💋


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

He's not a buffoon, he's my favourite 

















funmonkey.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

<honk>


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Well that's what he called himself before he changed his tagline. 

That's why he'll always be Clownish Buffoon to me


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Ah! don't judge his book by the cover


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

What's with the stabby dog tag these days, Orang Utan ? Ate you procuring them off the streets for danny la rouge 's nefarious purposes or something?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

His view and abuse took me under his cover. 

Eww, I need to wash my mouth out with soap & water!

Anyway, I suspect he can defend himself. 

Don't be taken in by his cover. It's positively.....fill in the blanks


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

I've developed a fairly good assessment of him over the years, I reckon..


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 12, 2021)

tufty79 said:


> What's with the stabby dog tag these days, Orang Utan ? Ate you procuring them off the streets for danny la rouge 's nefarious purposes or something?


dog face stealing innit


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

And who the fuck has been doing that, precisely, guys?
I have a five year gap of in jokes to catch-up with


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Is it a qanon / Wayfair conspiracy thing?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 12, 2021)

tufty79 said:


> And who the fuck has been doing that, precisely, guys?
> I have a five year gap of in jokes to catch-up with


A now-banned poster called marty1 (NOT 21)


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Clownish Buffoon may have been kind or pleasant to you. He's been just the opposite to me.

So I say fuck him, he deserves everything he's got coming to him, from me at least.

If he continues jabbing me, I'll fucking jab him back.

I love swearing too. But don't diss my fucking fanny


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> I say fuck him


Oh no 🙁


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Well not literally. 

Wouldn't touch him with a 10ft barge pole IRL  😱


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> he deserves everything he's got coming to him.


Oh no  he won't like either of those things at all, I'm afraid.

Forgive her ou, she knows not of what she speaks 



Would it be super Brilliant weird timing to send you that overdue pm RIGHT NOW?


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Don't diss my fucking fanny


Oh god, never. Only ever mine; sometimes it feels like I might need to call an exorcist about it, especia


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

At this point I couldn't give a flying fuck what he might like, or what he might think. 

I know very well of what I speak.

Please don't apologise for me, I can do that very well for myself, if I feel the need to. In this case though I don't. 

He's been a little twat & I don't mind saying so 

Do you want to send a pm to the little twat? Or to me, I'm not clear. If you want to pm me, do it. You don't need to ask permission.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

I think I might be teasing him, not you.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

I have been meaning to get in touch with him for days now about local characters and my mysterious absence for five years gone.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Are you sure? It sounded to me like you felt the need to placate him a little. 

Whatever, you do you etc.,


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

I do. May Gods help you all


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Don't bring the pixie in the sky into this. 

No offence to the God botherer's out there 😱


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Amen to that, sister. Testify?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Am TESTIFYIN' all over the shop


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

FFS has anyone read it? If so, what are your views?

If NONE of you can be arsed to read what I handed you on a fookin' plate. You just don't deserve me.

Ducking in readiness for the abuse to follow


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Pfft


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

<honk>


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Looks like it's just you and me sister. 

At least answer the question I've asked TWICE now.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

I'm only here for the geese now, sorry/all about goose by Taylor Swift is now playing on repeat



Have many funs!


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Oops that's the proper lyric, not the title.


Goose story short ...


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

Don't chase me. I'm not wild, and I'm too unfit for fulfilling tired stereotypes these days.

Honest.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

You get down under that parapet Tufty & save yourself   

You callin' me a tired stereotype, you biatch. 

Only riffin' wiv ya, don't cry.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

I meant I'm on a domestic goose chase with asthma.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)

Good luck to ya


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

It is induced by delighful situations such as stress, panic, and laughing really really hard. And a super secret bonus trigger that it's best for everyone concerned to never press again.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2021)

I've got horseshoes and lucky ducks, I'll be grand


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 12, 2021)




----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2021)

This is just pure trolling, now


----------



## Jay Park (Jan 12, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> This is just pure trolling, now



you had chance to visit that place in Nihombashi?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 13, 2021)

Thanks for your input krtek

I'm glad you have something positive to say & don't feel the need to stir the pot. 

To those boys & girls whom I may have offended, because I fight back - when I can be arsed -and can be as dirty as you, give yourselves a talking to & sort out your own dirty laundry. 

Playground bullies don't intimidate me. I can stand up for myself. 

Feel free to pile on though, if that's how you get your kicks, you know who you are.

Thanks for trying to distract though Jay  💋


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 13, 2021)

I'll say it again - at the risk of repeating myself - because some of you can't allow yourselves or won't allow yourselves to hear me, if you you don't want to discuss what this thread is about, why don't you just eff off to another more interesting thread, where you can throw your mortar bombs and people might applaud you for your audacity & daring.

Edited for effect: And you won't silence me either

Edited for emphasis: Lordy, I just lost my train of thought there. Whatever I was going to say was a doozy & you'll just have to take me at my word! If you're able to do that.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 13, 2021)

So shall I assume from the deafening silence, that maybe some of you did read JD's deposition/his side of this horrible shit-show?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2021)

No, cos we’re not obsessive weirdos who only post about one thing


----------



## bimble (Jan 13, 2021)

These twitter accounts being linked to are a window into a place where people wake up in the morning & go bed at night with only one thought in their fevered little brains which is how much they hate this actress, it’s really quite disturbing. Hope she can still leave her house.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 13, 2021)

This thread has got _really_ weird.


----------



## Numbers (Jan 13, 2021)

ElizabethofYork said:


> This thread has got _really_ weird.


Last few pages of posts are up there with the worst few pages of posts of ever.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> So shall I assume from the deafening silence, that maybe some of you did read JD's deposition/his side of this horrible shit-show?


Most people don't give a fuck any more, and that's not because people don't care about domestic violence.  They just don't care much about this particular Hollywood shitshow and the obsessive fans going on and on it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2021)

editor said:


> Most people don't give a fuck any more, and that's not because people don't care about domestic violence.  They just don't care much about this particular Hollywood shitshow and the obsessive fans going on and on it.


You could remark on people's indifference to a ton of threads here and how only obsessive fans keep them going eg all the Dulwich hamlet threads. But i hope that's not among the criteria used for locking threads as I suspect is about to happen here


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> You could remark on people's indifference to a ton of threads here and how only obsessive fans keep them going eg all the Dulwich hamlet threads.


You're comparing a single thread primarily driven by one poster obsessing about a specific celebrity case with one of the site's busiest forums, which enjoys a wide rage of contributions from multiple posters across multiple threads?

Some could remark on what a piss poor argument you've just conjured up there!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2021)

editor said:


> You're comparing a single thread primarily driven by one poster obsessing about a specific celebrity case with one of the site's busiest forums, which enjoys a wide rage of contributions from multiple posters across multiple threads?
> 
> Some could remark on what a piss poor argument you've just conjured up there!


To compare is not to say the comparators are of equal value. So some might say my argument rather better than the puddle of pee you've posted


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 14, 2021)

I knew if I waited long enough the bully boys & girls would creep out - Thank you for your contributions.

1st off: Clownish Buffoon, obsession can be a dreadful state of mind to be in I agree with you there. However, you need to get over me. Take some deep breaths & go for a walk or something. When thoughts of me pop into your head. JUST SAY NO! and try to move on & walk away. Or go and throw your little jibes in another forum. They wash right over me. However, I will not be SILENCED by you or anyone else. So put that in your pipe & shove it where the sun don't shine.

2. Elizabeth of York, this thread has been v.weird from the get go. They might as well have all been shouting 'I can't hear you, I don't want to hear you, I won't let myself hear you'. Because I've already decided this, this & this about you poster. And as my mind is locked tight, it's going to take a jemmy & dynamite to get in there! And I'm certainly not going to let you - me - explode anything in my head, because I've got too many pre-conceived ideas about you already. Talk about can't see the wood for the trees. Anyway, there's a lot of 'em about, so knock yourselves out.

3. Bimble, I don't know what you've got going on in your fevered little brain, but you are way off base. Jumping on the bandwagon with the lads, yeah! Pile on! Yeah! Hope you feel better after your outburst. See no.1 above if you don't.

4. Numbers, glad if I've beaten some kind of record. Have you ever beaten any records? It takes some doing, but with practice - 10,000 hours - if you keep it up, you'll get there.

5. Editor: You might be less partisan in your approach, but I understand your minions are watching & taking their cue from you. Anyway, you would show up better for it & look slightly less nasty than you do, to me at any rate. I have never had a reasonable response to anything I've ever posted on here, that  you deign to respond to. I'm beginning  to think you might have a touch of misogyny about you. I guess we're all entitled to our snarky opinions tho. As I have repeated continuously, this shit show isn't just about a couple of celebs, you stoopid knobheads! it is about far wider issues regarding domestic violence & abuse. If you can't get beyond the narrow little tunnel you're in, well there's not much hope for the rest of them. Have you read anything I said? Or are you so comfortable in your lofty tower dispensing your own sack of shit on the rest of us, me in particular. Why should you come down. I understand, it must be lovely up there.

5. I was just going to lay into you Pickmans Model & then read your post again. Quite!

I'll leave you to stew in your own juices for now - Eww

Maybe I'll come back in a few days to see how the pile on is going - as long as Editor doesn't have a hissy fit & ban me.  Ta ta


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2021)

Wow, such self-regard


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 14, 2021)

Yikes


----------



## two sheds (Jan 14, 2021)

Pleased that he doesn't do that childish thing of just insulting people though.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 14, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Pleased that he doesn't do that childish thing of just insulting people though.


I know. It's SO unladylike


----------



## Gromit (Jan 14, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> 5. Editor: [/snip] I'm beginning  to think you might have a touch of misogyny about you.



You must be new. 

Wait you aren’t!!

Hahaha! Best laugh I’ve had in a while.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 15, 2021)

Thought I'd do another sneak attack while most of you aren't here. Tee Hee 

I'll respond one by one again, as it makes it easer for me to keep up with where the abuse & bile is coming from. So, here we go!

Just remind me. Are we on a thread about The JD libel case? What should we talk about, NOT the case, that's for sure. Oh that's right, we MUSN'T talk about the case, because most of the responders on this thread know eff all about it. And would rather parrot the tabloids, the Scum in particular. As football fanatics, I'm surprised you take the Scum's side. It appears you'd rather do that than discuss this case in a reasonable manner. Or maybe most of you are too young & aren't able to be properly reasonable yet, 'cause you're still in that heavily competitive angsty teenage phase. All I can say is, I can't wait 'till you grow up. If you'd really rather continue acting like Clownish Buffoons, go for it. It won't make you happy tho because it's too negative & negativity will poison you if it hasn't already. I know this is a fookin' mad football group as well, but we are not on the terraces - at present - so try if you can to be civilised. And if you really can't be civilised, then fuck off, and stop wasting my time. I'd far rather discuss this with people who are interested in this case & it's wider ramifications. But so far, they are few & far between. Cowed at the beginning of this thread by nasty, abusive bullying.


1. Clownish Buffoon, you told me you were obsessed with me, I can see it. I've given you the solution, but you're obvs an addict & maybe need to go through some sort of therapy. Projection much? You self-regarding little prat.

2. Yikes is right Muscovy duck.

3. Two Sheds. I've told them more than once, if you insult me, I'll insult you back x 10.

4. Tufty, I'm not sure where you're coming from. but FYI I don't identify as a 'laydee' never have. I am a woman, with a gob on her. You wouldn't say that about a 'laydee' would you? That's the whole point isn't it. When we call someone a 'laydee' we immediately take away her agency. Because 'laydees' are demure & quiet & never raise their voices & certainly don't answer back. And they sit with their knees together. No 'manspreading' for the 'laydees'. I think you might be a woman too. But you're spending too much time 'manwhispering' & placating the lads/mob.

5. Gromit, Killer b started his insulting line with that idea. Suggesting there's something wrong with me for coming on an 'obscure' forum on a Sunday night. I had to let him know that he's the one with the problem, judging by his post count. And obviously doesn't have a life outside this coterie of loons. Anyway, the long & short of it is, I've been on these forums for nearly 20 years & it never changes does it. Still a pack of laughing hyenas who are just waiting to pounce. Glad you found it amusing tho Gromit. I like a good laff myself. 

All you little girls & boys, just remember where you are. This is a thread about JD & the libel case & issues surrounding that. If you don't want to discuss anything about it. Go somewhere else to play. Your pissy little jibes & insults aren't needed here.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

Marry me.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 15, 2021)

Look, marriage is an outdated institution IMO. Anyway, been there done that & wouldn't want to go back. We could get engaged tho  💋


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

Cool. Your place or mine? Who books the first date removal can?


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

Van. Van, not can

Actually, iirc i fulfilled classic lesbian stereotypes on the second date - my mistake. A really really big mistake


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Look, marriage is an outdated institution IMO. Anyway, been there done that & wouldn't want to go back. We could get engaged tho  💋


The good thing about marriage though is legal stability in unequal income divorces etc for the poorer party/also benefits following a partners death.  
It does make it very expensive to legally part though, which is a huge disadvantag obviously.

Im quite fond of the idea of handfasting though.


Superglue or string?


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 15, 2021)

I say get engaged, but I wouldn't want to live with ya. I need my own space see, I like to do what I want when I want. I spent too many years accommodating loons. Let's just have a long distance engagement.

Deffo a long ball of invisible string.

Or we could do 'handfasting' as long as it's at a distance tho.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

HELL YES I refuse to live with a partner ever again.  They take up my cat's bed space


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> .
> 
> Deffo a long ball of invisible string.


I've found the perfect engagement party sing already 💝➰💝


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 15, 2021)

I'd listen to it, but it's too late & I might wake my son up! I'll save it for a rainy day.

Bliddy Hell, did you hear that! There's a man on the premises  😱

I mean I could plug my earphones in, but it's too late


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

Oh. Oh no! Are you safe? 

I'm in a women only by my rules single woman flat


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

But definitely save Taylor for rainy day. She was my surprise birthday present this year - her album dropped the day I hit 41 and my support bubble didn't even text me 

She is the best U-turn I've ever made. I assumed she was bubblegum! She's actually velvet wrapped in an iron lyric.
Or the other way round. Or both 

Sleep well! I'm off to dream of kittens and romance and training to be a Smith one day 


🎨🌠🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥⚒️🔨🛠️🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

Ps well done on raising a good lad. I'm working on assumptions obvs, but I trust that you have!


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 15, 2021)

I've raised a fookin' brilliant lad. The best there is IMO. He wouldn't dream of being a misogynist twat like some of the responders on this thread. He respects women, because I've taught him about the world & the people that live in it. Treating people with respect has always been a priority.

It was hard work, bringing up a lad, but definitely worth the effort.  And anyway, if he ever did a switch & tried anything with me, I'd knock him spark out. Figuratively not literally, because I can't condone violence!

Don't forget lads - you've probably all got mummies, and if you haven't, my condolences.

I had also assumed Taylor Swift was bubblegum, but after reading your description, I'll get right on to her!

Nighty, night.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jan 15, 2021)

Well, you'll never believe it. I just got buzzed by my 'horror scope' it says:

Having complete harmony in your life isn't always possible, which is actually a good thing because harmony isn't always helpful. Sometimes you need some friction to help real solutions come about and enable real learning to take place. Don't shy away from conflict all the time. Your controversial stance on a certain issue might not make you the most popular person in the room, but you're right & they're wrong! Take the opportunity to try to educate them.

Bliddy Hell, you couldn't make this shit up!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 15, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Thought I'd do another sneak attack while most of you aren't here. Tee Hee
> 
> I'll respond one by one again, as it makes it easer for me to keep up with where the abuse & bile is coming from. So, here we go!
> 
> ...



😁 

Feel better now?


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

Actually, you COULD make it up, but it wouldn't be as fun as spotting it occuring naturally in the wild

Meet my stand in wife/bodyguard

I'm so glad I found you, you seem a lot less cold hearted than









 haggi mambling xxxx


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 15, 2021)

I was made to love magic

*Roaring Double Leo with Gemini Rising


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 16, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> .
> 
> I had also assumed Taylor Swift was bubblegum, but after reading your description, I'll get right on to her!
> 
> Nighty, night.




Heya love! I found this and SCREAMED




tufty79 said:


> Nnnnfhgh brain fizz on unplayed potential...


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 16, 2021)

....







💝💝💝💝💝


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 16, 2021)

Ann Tigonie said:


> Don't shy away from conflict all the time. Your controversial stance on a certain issue might not make you the most popular person in the room, but you're right & they're wrong! Take the opportunity to try to educate them.
> 
> Bliddy Hell, you couldn't make this shit up!



Oh, am sure you could


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 16, 2021)

Oops wrong thread . Oh well may as well go with it and make it a lucky three
Ann Tigonie 




This one's about you and your boy  xx


Come play with us on the what are you listening to thread - we'll dance to anything on there, no arguments


----------



## D'wards (Mar 18, 2021)

Update for those interested. Interesting to note the Guardian who used to report this with a heavy anti Depp slant are now very neutral in their articles 









						Johnny Depp says 'lie' about charity donation influenced libel judge
					

Amber Heard’s team tells court about ‘ample support’ for evidence as actor seeks to overturn assault ruling




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 19, 2021)

and so it rolls on









						Johnny Depp wins right to sue Amber Heard in $50m case after Hollywood 'boycott'
					

Johnny Depp has won the right to sue his ex-wife Amber Heard in a $50million (£36m) libel case over an op-ed she wrote in 2018 about surviving domestic abuse




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## D'wards (Apr 11, 2022)

The American leg of this tie has begun









						Johnny Depp popularity plummeted after Amber Heard trial, poll shows
					

Johnny Depp -Amber Heard court trial today live updates




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## weltweit (Apr 20, 2022)

I suppose Depp doesn't have much of a choice, if he doesn't clear his name he won't work again. But if he loses in the US the damages and costs are likely to bankrupt him. 

They are both accomplished actors, could you tell which was telling the truth?


----------



## D'wards (May 1, 2022)

Heard's legal team are a complete bunch of cowboys who often draw laughter in court at their incompetence. 
I almost feel sorry for her


----------



## spring-peeper (May 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Heard's legal team are a complete bunch of cowboys who often draw laughter in court at their incompetence.
> I almost feel sorry for her




I don't!!!
She is a lying little bitch who give women a bad name.

I hope they put her in prison, but that is not really an option.


----------



## D'wards (May 1, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> I don't!!!
> She is a lying little bitch who give women a bad name.
> 
> I hope they put her in prison, but that is not really an option.


You see, I always maintained that Johnny is innocent, and was the victim of the domestic violence on this here thread. 
The majority on here sided with heard, based on gender alone and didn't bother to look at the evidence. 
It all got a bit nasty,  bizarre so I ducked out.
I wonder if any of those who sent Depp to the gallows have had another think?


----------



## spring-peeper (May 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> You see, I always maintained that Johnny is innocent, and was the victim of the domestic violence on this here thread.
> The majority on here sided with heard, based on gender alone and didn't bother to look at the evidence.
> It all got a bit nasty,  bizarre so I ducked out.
> I wonder if any of those who sent Depp to the gallows have had another think?




She said that if she accused him of violence, the world would believe her.
And they did......woman should always be believed.

But this time, they were wrong.
Imo, it takes courage for a man to say a woman beat him.

I have no problem believing him, my grandfather was beaten regularly by his wife.
I was so happy he left her!!!


----------



## spring-peeper (May 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> I suppose Depp doesn't have much of a choice, if he doesn't clear his name he won't work again. But if he loses in the US the damages and costs are likely to bankrupt him.
> 
> They are both accomplished actors, could you tell which was telling the truth?




And the lying little bitch suffers nothing wrt her career.

Did I mention that I don't support that poor excuse for a woman?


----------



## D'wards (May 1, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> She said that if she accused him of violence, the world would believe her.
> And they did......woman should always be believed.
> 
> But this time, they were wrong.
> ...


They played a tape or her admitting to hitting him and calling him a baby for making a fuss about it.

And another recording of her saying "tell the world that you, a man, are a victim of domestic violence and see who believes you".

Nasty piece of work


----------



## spring-peeper (May 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> They played a tape or her admitting to hitting him and calling him a baby for making a fuss about it.
> 
> And another recording of her saying "tell the world that you, a man, are a victim of domestic violence and see who believes you".
> 
> Nasty piece of work




Pissing and shitting on his pillow = give me a break!!!!

But, oh, she has mental issues.....

Diddums, many people do.
But we don't pee on s/o pillow and joke about it on social media.


----------



## Sue (May 1, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> I don't!!!
> She is a lying little bitch who give women a bad name.
> 
> I hope they put her in prison, but that is not really an option.


You know about this, right? 

*'Johnny Depp has lost his libel case against the Sun newspaper over an article that called him a "wife beater".*

Mr Depp, 57, sued the paper after it claimed he assaulted his ex-wife Amber Heard, which he denies. 

The Sun said the article was accurate.

Judge Mr Justice Nicol said the Sun had proved what was in the article to be "substantially true".

*He found 12 of the 14 alleged incidents of domestic violence had occurred.'*

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54779430


----------



## Petcha (May 1, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> And the lying little bitch suffers nothing wrt her career.
> 
> Did I mention that I don't support that poor excuse for a woman?



That's very OTT. And a fucking awful post. I assume you were a bit fucked up when you posted it.

I've not been through the courts for domestic violence or rape or anything, but I have been through family court for custody of our son for years now and yes, it's very heavily biased against men. We basically have no voice. The mother will always win and be completely believed with absolutely no evidence. But AFAIK in domestic violence cases and rape it's very very hard to get a conviction, and that's something that's got to change.


----------



## Aladdin (May 1, 2022)

Honestly I think Depp should not have continued this whole thing.

They are both as bad as each other. She..slapping him.
Him being so drunk and drugged up that he cant recall stuff but denying he hit her when there was photos/ video of him hitting her or throwing bottles at her.

They just should admit to both of them being fucked up...and MOVE THE FUCK ON.

Sue ppsted earlier about him losing his libel case. That should have given Depp a clue as to how his actions were viewed.
He cant come out and claim he was innocent in the relationship and never touched a hair on her head. And lets all just remember who's bringing who to court now.

Depp slid into a fucking big black hole full of drugs and alcohol. And now he thinks he can claim he never hit her...when he can barely recall anything much from that time...is close to stupidity.

He only wants to nail it on her at this stage. Blame her for the fact he did throw that bottle and did land a punch. 

And just to be clear...I dont like EITHER of them. 
Johnny was nice when he was young. I wouldnt want tp be within an asses roar of him when he's on drugs / alcohol. 
Amber is a messed up person who was abused as a child and has issues. 

My yardstick measure is this. 
Would I want to spend a week on holidays with this person?
I wouldnt want to go on holidays with either of them.

As for the current court case? 
Couldnt give a fuck about either of them. They're both going to come out badly...no matter who wins.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Heard's legal team are a complete bunch of cowboys who often draw laughter in court at their incompetence.
> I almost feel sorry for her


I've been following it a bit on you tube, and they most certainly don't come across well at all. Mistakes a plenty and obvious attempts to twist defendants answers. I thought maybe this sort of thing happens all the time, but I've not seen it they are also all pretty rude and quite unlikeable. It doesn't seem like a very a very good tactic. I don't mean just rude to Depp, but rude to all the witnesses regardless. . . Though to be fair I haven't heard anyone speak strongly to back Heard's side yet. Maybe that comes later?
Quite a lot of the you tube footage I have watched isn't presented very impartially though, nobody seems interested in posting highlights that don't show Heard's team up.
There have been a couple of times that Depp doesn't exactly come off so great. . . I'm not sure it's worthy of a trial of this magnitude though.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Heard's legal team are a complete bunch of cowboys who often draw laughter in court at their incompetence.
> I almost feel sorry for her


I've been following it a bit on you tube, and they most certainly don't come across well at all. Mistakes a plenty and obvious attempts to twist defendants answers. I thought maybe this sort of thing happens all the time, but I've not seen it they are also all pretty rude and quite unlikeable. It doesn't seem like a very a very good tactic. I don't mean just rude to Depp, but rude to all the witnesses regardless. . . Though to be fair I haven't heard anyone speak strongly to back Heard's side yet. Maybe that comes later?
Quite a lot of the you tube footage I have watched isn't presented very impartially though, nobody seems interested in posting highlights that don't show Heard's team up.
There have been a couple of times that Depp doesn't exactly come off so great. . . I'm not sure it's worthy of a trial of this magnitude though.


----------



## Petcha (May 1, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Honestly I think Depp should not have continued this whole thing.
> 
> They are both as bad as each other. She..slapping him.
> Him being so drunk and drugged up that he cant recall stuff but denying he hit her when there was photos/ video of him hitting her or throwing bottles at her.
> ...



He must feel _extremely_ strongly that he is the victim here in order to risk his entire fortune. But unfortunately didn't film any of her alleged antics (although the severed finger aint good). I dont like either of them either. His 'perfomances' in court are painful, whats with that fucking accent, he sounds like he's trying to perform at the Gielgud.


----------



## Aladdin (May 1, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I've been following it a bit on you tube, and they most certainly don't come across well at all. Mistakes a plenty and obvious attempts to twist defendants answers. I thought maybe this sort of thing happens all the time, but I've not seen it they are also all pretty rude and quite unlikeable. It doesn't seem like a very a very good tactic. I don't mean just rude to Depp, but rude to all the witnesses regardless. . . Though to be fair I haven't heard anyone speak strongly to back Heard's side yet. Maybe that comes later?
> Quite a lot of the you tube footage I have watched isn't presented very impartially though, nobody seems interested in posting highlights that don't show Heard's team up.
> There have been a couple of times that Depp doesn't exactly come off so great. . . I'm not sure it's worthy of a trial of this magnitude though.





It's  ALL attention. 

Depp has lost his grip on reality...if he ever had any grip..at least since he was 30. 

Heard... Just is annoying abd whiney.


I hate that I am even paying attention to this absolute shoite...when the world is full of very real agony .


----------



## D'wards (May 1, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Honestly I think Depp should not have continued this whole thing.
> 
> They are both as bad as each other. She..slapping him.
> Him being so drunk and drugged up that he cant recall stuff but denying he hit her when there was photos/ video of him hitting her or throwing bottles at her.
> ...


Just to pick you up on one point, there is no footage or any evidence he hit her apart from her claims. 

It has all been devastating for both of their careers - he was dropped from the pirates and Harry Potter films. He hasn't really done much since all this kicked off.

And her part in Aquaman 2 is rumoured to have been cut to under 10 minutes such is her unpopularity with the public. 

The court case isn't about the $50m but being vindicated after the London case.
I have a feeling film companies will be biting his hand off if he wins.

On the socials, twitter and Instagram, support is overwhelmingly for JD. He has loads of support.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Just to pick you up on one point, there is no footage or any evidence he hit her apart from her claims.
> 
> It has all been devastating for both of their careers - he was dropped from the pirates and Harry Potter films. He hasn't really done much since all this kicked off.
> 
> ...


This is true. I would think that film companies have been asking him for this case from behind the scenes. If he is cleared it's a green light. Amber is unlikely to come off so well either way. 

The socials and the overwhelming support for Depp certainly make it hard for the casual viewer (such as myself) to get a clear unbiased opinion of what is actually going on. As much as I am seeing a horrifically inept and rude legal team on Heard's side, I'm also seeing lots of instances of "Watch Heard's team get utterly destroyed" videos, where Heard's team don't really get destroyed at all and make a few valid points.


----------



## D'wards (May 1, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> This is true. I would think that film companies have been asking him for this case from behind the scenes. If he is cleared it's a green light. Amber is unlikely to come off so well either way.
> 
> The socials and the overwhelming support for Depp certainly make it hard for the casual viewer (such as myself) to get a clear unbiased opinion of what is actually going on. As much as I am seeing a horrifically inept and rude legal team on Heard's side, I'm also seeing lots of instances of "Watch Heard's team get utterly destroyed" videos, where Heard's team don't really get destroyed at all and make a few valid points.


I think Heard takes the stand this week so we can hear her side. 
Its all been Depp so far so things are bound to skew in his favour.

Being completely beautiful looks wise is no ticket to a happy life eh, for both of them.


----------



## Aladdin (May 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Just to pick you up on one point, there is no footage or any evidence he hit her apart from her claims.
> 
> It has all been devastating for both of their careers - he was dropped from the pirates and Harry Potter films. He hasn't really done much since all this kicked off.
> 
> ...




Depp actually admitted head butting her....
And I am sure I saw pics of her bruised face.

I believe he now has pics of her hitting him.

They were both violent in a toxic violent relationship. Depp doesnt come out of this looking any better but does come out of it looking like he absolutely lost the plot of his life. 

Heard doesnt come out of it looking good either. Her mental health has been splashed all over the media...hystrionic personality disorder etc etc.

...I actually am sick of both these fuckwits.Tie them together and BLAST them off with Elon Musk to the moon.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Depp doesnt come out of this looking any better but does come out of it looking like he absolutely lost the plot of his life.


This was my takeaway. 
Though not much more or any less than some less rich people. 

He looks (in court) like he has come through the other side, but obviously that's hard to tell.


----------



## D'wards (May 1, 2022)

The headbutt is contentious though. 
She claims it was a straight headbutt, he claims she was attacking him with the fury of a whirling dervish and he grabbed her to pin her arms at her side to stop the hitting and their foreheads connected by accident. 

It all comes to who the jury believes. 

He shoulda stuck to Wynona, that much is clear


----------



## Aladdin (May 1, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> This was my takeaway.
> Though not much more or any less than some less rich people.
> 
> He looks (in court) like he has come through the other side, but obviously that's hard to tell.




Yes.. well looks can be deceiving. And he is a good actor. Note all his tattoos covered up and the very toffy handkerchief edge in his top pocket. It's like he's trying to look like someone else. (I have nothing against tatts in case anyone thinks I do)

When I see the video of him slamming kitchen presses and kicking stuff I never would have thought he COULD be like that.

But hey... these are all actors. Their job is to be someone else.
Do we ever get to know any actor? Really?

And that goes for Heard too.

Again..

Blast em into space. Two very needy attention seeking twats.


----------



## frogwoman (May 18, 2022)

Thread by @brosandprose on Thread Reader App idk about the accuracy of this but this doesn't sound good


----------



## D'wards (May 25, 2022)

Kate Moss testified today. Heard had claimed Depp had pushed her (Moss) down the stairs.
Moss said "no he didn't".
So that clears that up


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 27, 2022)

closing arguments


----------



## IC3D (May 27, 2022)

Good luck JD, he clearly got stuck with a psycho and has every right to have his day in court.


----------



## Santino (May 27, 2022)

Isn't his whole case based on the theory that she spent years building up a fake bank of evidence against him and recruiting her friends to lie?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 27, 2022)

IC3D said:


> Good luck JD, he clearly got stuck with a psycho and has every right to have his day in court.



He already had his day in court two years ago in the UK. The judge ruled that describing him as a 'wife beater' was not libellous based on 12 instances of domestic violence being proved to the civil standard. Winning a defamation case in the US is much harder than the UK.


----------



## D'wards (May 27, 2022)

I notice that in the summing up Heard's lawyer rather than insisting depp had physically assaulted her, went for the tact that slamming kitchen cupboard doors in front of someone is abusing them


----------



## two sheds (May 27, 2022)

She also said you had to believe that all of Heard's accusations were true or none of them were. That seems strange to me - if she was wrong about even half of them then the other half would seem to demonstrate abuse. 

I did also hear some of the early tape when he was (as I recall) coked up and drunk. He sounded really out of control and I don't believe he'd remember anything he did.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 27, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> He already had his day in court two years ago in the UK. The judge ruled that describing him as a 'wife beater' was not libellous based on 12 instances of domestic violence being proved to the civil standard. Winning a defamation case in the US is much harder than the UK.




Yeah, British justice is impeachable and gets to the TRUTH.


----------



## Hollis (May 27, 2022)

On more mundane matters, if the jury don't decide today, do they get to spend the whole weekend locked up in some hotel somewhere?  It's bad enough watching the 'verdict watch' coverage on Law and Crime TV..


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 27, 2022)

Hollis said:


> On more mundane matters, if the jury don't decide today, do they get to spend the whole weekend locked up in some hotel somewhere?  It's bad enough watching the 'verdict watch' coverage on Law and Crime TV..


Judge has just dismissed the jury for the weekend. Back on Tuesday morn.


----------



## Hollis (May 27, 2022)

They have to reach a unanimous verdict I believe.   Imagine it could take quite awhile..


----------



## IC3D (May 27, 2022)

two sheds said:


> She also said you had to believe that all of Heard's accusations were true or none of them were. That seems strange to me - if she was wrong about even half of them then the other half would seem to demonstrate abuse.
> 
> I did also hear some of the early tape when he was (as I recall) coked up and drunk. He sounded really out of control and I don't believe he'd remember anything he did.


Coked up and drunk is how I'd deal being in a relationship with Amber Heard.


----------



## Santino (May 27, 2022)

IC3D said:


> Coked up and drunk is how I'd deal being in a relationship with Amber Heard.


Would you give her a slap too?


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (May 27, 2022)

I've been watching friend's reactions on social media.  My personal observation is that which side someone believes, says more about them and their relationship with the opposite sex, than it does the trial.  The whole thing probably says something deeply unpleasant about us all, but then again, I'm an unrepentant misanthrope.


----------



## two sheds (May 27, 2022)

It was the article in this post that changed how I viewed it, brought home what Depp has been doing irrespective of how Heard has behaved. Also not sure about the accuracy of it but it only really has to be half right.



frogwoman said:


> Thread by @brosandprose on Thread Reader App idk about the accuracy of this but this doesn't sound good



I've known a man who'd totally do all this to his ex.


----------



## TopCat (May 27, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I've been watching friend's reactions on social media.  My personal observation is that which side someone believes, says more about them and their relationship with the opposite sex, than it does the trial.  The whole thing probably says something deeply unpleasant about us all, but then again, I'm an unrepentant misanthrope.


You definitely have something here. It’s a mirror, an ugly mirror rather than a vanity.


----------



## N_igma (May 27, 2022)

They both seem like deeply unpleasant people and the media spectacle around it is unsettling. We live in a fucked up world.


----------



## Gromit (May 28, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I've known a man who'd totally do all this to his ex.


Prejudicial. You'd be excluded from the jury.

Just because person A behaves in a manner does not mean all persons act in a manner.

Women have been excused killing men because they've been abused.
Yet there is no excuse for a man hitting a woman, not even chronic long term abuse.

Fair?

I don't know if he hit her or not to be honest. Ain't been following it that closely.
At the risk of sounding like the "All lives matter" guy at a "Black lives matter" rally I hope gender is not how this matter is judged but on evidence.


----------



## two sheds (May 28, 2022)

Gromit said:


> Women have been excused killing men because they've been abused.
> Yet there is no excuse for a man hitting a woman, not even chronic long term abuse.
> 
> Fair?


Prejudicial. You'd be excluded from the jury.

Just because person A behaves in a manner does not mean all persons act in a manner.


----------



## Santino (May 28, 2022)

Gromit said:


> Prejudicial. You'd be excluded from the jury.
> 
> Just because person A behaves in a manner does not mean all persons act in a manner.
> 
> ...


Absolutely fuck the fuck off you creepy cunt.


----------



## D'wards (May 28, 2022)

I do wonder if the verdict is almost an irrelevance now?
Due to the publicity its received and the sheer amount of support Depp has it seems, the film companies will offer him tentpole films as they know that he has millions of fans and his popularity has only grown as a result of this court case.

I don't know what Amber will do next, career wise.

And its not a case of forgiving an abuser or looking the other way, the vast majority don't believe he did what he was accused of


----------



## Lea (May 28, 2022)

Have to say that gender bias does make a difference in these sorts of cases. Men are less likely to come forward if they have been abused in a relationship because of the shame and less likely to be believed they were to tell his story. 

Once worked in a law firm where a client had been accused of abusing his girlfriend. I was appalled when I read her statement. I thought what a disgusting man. He wasn't allowed to see his kids because of this. He then told his side of the story where his girlfriend was constantly hitting him. She smashed his fish tank and put a hammer to his car!  We applied for an order for him to have contact with his children and fortunately he was successful. You really do need to hear all sides of the story before making judgement about someone.


----------



## Hollis (May 28, 2022)

This seems a fairly well-balanced article about it all:

The Heard v. Depp trial is not just a media spectacle – it is an opportunity to discuss the nuances of intimate partner violence


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 1, 2022)

Long thread about Depp's history of violence, including some noncy shit:


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 1, 2022)

I can't believe how much bile there's been against Amber Heard from people who apparently consider Johnny Depp a close personal friend and a paragon of truth because they liked his performance in Pirates of the Caribbean.


----------



## Lea (Jun 1, 2022)

Verdict being read now. Depp has won his defamation case.


----------



## Lea (Jun 1, 2022)

Total damages to Depp so far: $17m


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 1, 2022)

is that it over then yay *dances

how these 2 twats ended up  in court over this


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 1, 2022)

Lea said:


> Verdict being read now. Depp has won his defamation case.


Good.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 1, 2022)

So he gets $15 million, and she gets $2 million? She won part of her countersuit?


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 1, 2022)

I can't follow the detail but I think what doesn't seem to get talked about enough, as though it's incidental, is the effect of drug and alcohol use, especially long term, and fame, where there are no ordinary boundaries and stops to anti-social behaviour. There's a context to all this.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

eatmorecheese said:


> So he gets $15 million, and she gets $2 million? She won part of her countersuit?


She won cos the jury didn't believe his claim she faked a crime scene then called the police


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 1, 2022)

It's all been really grubby. The media hangers-on and YouTube ghouls will have to find something else to get outraged about I suppose.

Mental health, substance use and domestic violence. Keep looking. Look some more. Yay, this is fun.

Glad the shit-show is over.


----------



## Ann Tigonie (Jun 1, 2022)

Yoo Hoo! Don't say I didn't tell y'all. 
mwah, mwah.


----------



## Diamond (Jun 1, 2022)

Defamation law gets a bad rap in the UK (and rightly so) but those numbers are insane - next level US legal BS.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 1, 2022)

Bizarre to think that in England where it’s pretty easy to win a defamation claim, it’s not at all defamatory to call Jonny Depp a ‘wife beater’. But in the US, where it’s much harder to win a defamation claim, it is defamatory to indirectly accuse him of domestic violence. It’s almost like something other than the facts determined the outcome


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 1, 2022)

The jury seem a little confused


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 1, 2022)

From the massive anti-Heard slant in social media, etc, I was half expecting the jury to award Depp $100 million and order Disney to give him the starring role in Pirates of the Caribbean 6: Drunken Sailor.


----------



## Athos (Jun 1, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The jury seem a little confused



Not really. They found that she lied about him beating her, but that he lied about her faking a crime scene.


----------



## donkyboy (Jun 1, 2022)

The "We love you Johnny" fans need their head examined. Wish this case like the other one was in the UK.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Be interesting to see where they both go from here. Depp has already said Disney can poke the pirates up their arris


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Be interesting to see where they both go from here.



When one of the options is your own private island in the Bahamas forgive me for not finding it interesting.

There's real agony in the world, often played out in deep poverty, sometimes played out in war, and we're supposed to give a fuck about $15 million court settlements?

Pass the sick bag.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Be interesting to see where they both go from here. Depp has already said Disney can poke the pirates up their arris


Points for old school london term.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 1, 2022)

jury comprised of 5 men and 2 women apparently. Guess the outcome isn’t that surprising


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 1, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> jury comprised of 5 men and 2 women apparently. Guess the outcome isn’t that surprising


Do you think they made the wrong decision?


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Points for old school london term.


Us working class geezers need to keep it alive or else it'll go up the pictures


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 1, 2022)

A petition to get Heard dropped from _Aquaman 2_ had close to 4 million signatures before the verdict was revealed. That's just weird.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 1, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> jury comprised of 5 men and 2 women apparently. Guess the outcome isn’t that surprising


Why


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 1, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> I can't believe how much bile there's been against Amber Heard from people who apparently consider Johnny Depp a close personal friend and a paragon of truth because they liked his performance in Pirates of the Caribbean.


Yeah, it's been quite surreal seeing people talking about the guy like they know him personally really well. 
"Johnny wouldn't X, Y or Z." How the fuck do they know?


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

I should think feminists should be more angry with Heard than anyone- she completely and utterly exploited the #metoo and #believewomen movements entirely for her own ends. 
In fact she's still doing it in her statement


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 1, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Do you think they made the wrong decision?



Do you think the English High Court was wrong to find calling Depp a ‘wive beater’ to be not libellous?


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Do you think the English High Court was wrong to find calling Depp a ‘wive beater’ to be not libellous?


Yes, yes I do


----------



## friedaweed (Jun 1, 2022)

Truth and integrity dissipates greatly when the results of  justice are decided and paid for and subsequently measured in dollars, cents and dimes.  A bit like Wagatha, society is sick with this sort of way of settling it's wrongdoing. 

It's just another form of entertainment for those who wish to gaze at it now. Not surprised to see the Scum at the centre.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Truth and integrity dissipates greatly when the results of  justice are decided and paid for and subsequently measured in dollars, cents and dimes.  A bit like Wagatha, society is sick with this sort of way of settling it's wrongdoing.
> 
> It's just another form of entertainment for those who wish to gaze at it now. Not surprised to see the Scum at the centre.


Depp reportedly not going to claim compensation


----------



## friedaweed (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Depp reportedly not going to claim compensation


What's 15 million to a Billionaire? To be fair if you spilled my pint I'd take an apology and a  handshake unless it was London prices.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jun 1, 2022)

Who actually gives a fuck?


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

So miserable that we're can't get beyond the idea that women have to be mentally completely stable, incredibly likeable people to be believed while men can be wasted narcissists for decades and boast about humiliating their whore exes and be stand up popular heroes. I don't think either person was exactly pleasant but the idea he was some innocent party is nonsense. Hope he's happy having succeeded in the humiliation he promised her. Ych a fi.


----------



## friedaweed (Jun 1, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Who actually gives a fuck?


A lot of legal leeches getting fat probably and a shit load of media outlets who've got no real news to report.

Here's Tom with the weather.


----------



## Sue (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> I should think feminists should be more angry with Heard than anyone- she completely and utterly exploited the #metoo and #believewomen movements entirely for her own ends.
> In fact she's still doing it in her statement


Christ.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Who actually gives a fuck?


There must be a term for people who take pains to comment on a subject that they don't care about it whilst engaging with that very topic, and indeed actively clicking on the thread about it.

Proving you are hard and street and cool by demonstrating you are above popular culture.

Maybe that book whose name escapes me, humour book from 80s


----------



## Smangus (Jun 1, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Who actually gives a fuck?


Dang, beat me to it.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> There must be a term for people who take pains to comment on a subject that they don't care about it whilst engaging with that very topic, and indeed actively clicking on the thread about it.


It's probably a German word.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 1, 2022)

America’s best and brightest predictably celebrating


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Buddy Bradley said:


> It's probably a German word.


Git un schlottermeir


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Git un schlottermeir


10 house points to anyone who gets this reference


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> So miserable that we're can't get beyond the idea that women have to be mentally completely stable, incredibly likeable people to be believed while men can be wasted narcissists for decades and boast about humiliating their whore exes and be stand up popular heroes. I don't think either person was exactly pleasant but the idea he was some innocent party is nonsense. Hope he's happy having succeeded in the humiliation he promised her. Ych a fi.


It's certainly true that they both appear.to be damaged individuals with addiction and.mental health issues.  But it also seems the case that she was lying about the violence, and the court saw through her lies.

The amounts of money being discussed is obscene but being labelled as a wife beater/domestic abuser is really serious and, if untrue, he deserves to be vindicated.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Git un schlottermeir


Have you got that right? It won't translate.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Have you got that right? It won't translate.


That's part of it...

It would be very dangerous to translate


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 1, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> America’s best and brightest predictably celebrating




Says the guy whose rapist dad is good friends with Ghislaine Maxwell.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> That's part of it...
> 
> It would be very dangerous to translate


Its too obscure, no one would get it.

In the monty python sketch where the bloke writes the funniest joke in the world, which kills anyone from laughing who hears it, they have it translated into German.
The English army run towards the Germans in the war reciting it and they all died laughing.
My pal wrote down the German translation to try and get it translated back to English but it is gibberish German sounding words


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

I think the whole pooing in the bed thing will follow Heard about like a bad smell for life.
I reckon it was one of her arsehole friends and not heard herself. 
I feel sorry for her over that aspect.
Humiliating


----------



## Raheem (Jun 1, 2022)

Athos said:


> Not really. They found that she lied about him beating her, but that he lied about her faking a crime scene.


I haven't been following the case, but if they believed there was a crime scene that she didn't fake, wouldn't it follow that they must believe someone had committed a crime???


----------



## Athos (Jun 1, 2022)

Raheem said:


> I haven't been following the case, but if they believed there was a crime scene that she didn't fake, wouldn't it follow that they must believe someone had committed a crime???


No, they could believe that she hadn't broken bottles etc. to frame him, at the same time as believing he never hit her.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Raheem said:


> I haven't been following the case, but if they believed there was a crime scene that she didn't fake, wouldn't it follow that they must believe someone had committed a crime???


It was some wine and glass on carpets type thing. Indicative of an argument or raucous party more than a straight crime scene. 
The police came and didn't find any evidence of a crime


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> It's certainly true that they both appear.to be damaged individuals with addiction and.mental health issues.  But it also seems the case that she was lying about the violence, and the court saw through her lies.
> 
> The amounts of money being discussed is obscene but being labelled as a wife beater/domestic abuser is really serious and, if untrue, he deserves to be vindicated.


I think he admitted being an abuser in numerous ways during the trial but we live in a time or place where that can be discounted if you fight back, if you have a personality disorder, if you on occasion behave badly. So he 'won'. In fact, even if you think she lied about everything, just read what he admitted to in court and think how would you describe the behaviour if a friend's partner was behaving like that?


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Do you think the English High Court was wrong to find calling Depp a ‘wive beater’ to be not libellous?


Can I respectfully ask if you followed the trial at all? 
Or have you made up your mind about the verdict based on other factors?


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> I think he admitted being an abuser in numerous ways during the trial but we live in a time or place where that can be discounted if you fight back, if you have a personality disorder, if you on occasion behave badly. So he 'won'. In fact, even if you think she lied about everything, just read what he admitted to in court and think how would you describe the behaviour if a friend's partner was behaving like that?


What abuse did he admit to?

I followed it and that passed me by


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> What abuse did he admit to?
> 
> I followed it and that passed me by


You missed the apologies for appalling behaviour when intoxicated? The wrecking places, which has gone on for decades? The admitted jealousy? You missed the toxic narcissistic declaration in court about her never getting his glance again? The photos of the state he got in? The withdrawals and threats in texts and emails he admitted to? How would you feel if a mate was with someone like him?

I get he's superficially charming, but it all wears thin after a while.


----------



## Sue (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> You missed the apologies for appalling behaviour when intoxicated? The wrecking places, which has gone on for decades? The admitted jealousy? You missed the toxic narcissistic declaration in court about her never getting his glance again? The photos of the state he got in? The withdrawals and threats in texts and emails he admitted to? How would you feel if a mate was with someone like him?


But y'know, apart from that ^ , great bloke.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> You missed the apologies for appalling behaviour when intoxicated? The wrecking places, which has gone on for decades? The admitted jealousy? You missed the toxic narcissistic declaration in court about her never getting his glance again? The photos of the state he got in? The withdrawals and threats in texts and emails he admitted to? How would you feel if a mate was with someone like him?
> 
> I get he's superficially charming, but it all wears thin after a while.


I'm talking physical abuse here, for that is what the case was about


----------



## two sheds (Jun 1, 2022)

She didn't do herself any favours with her statements about the money she'd promised to give to charity. But listening to him ranting angrily when coked up and pissed he was out of control and I can imagine him doing all sorts of shit and (which he admitted) not remembering it afterwards.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> You missed the apologies for appalling behaviour when intoxicated? The wrecking places, which has gone on for decades? The admitted jealousy? You missed the toxic narcissistic declaration in court about her never getting his glance again? The photos of the state he got in? The withdrawals and threats in texts and emails he admitted to? How would you feel if a mate was with someone like him?
> 
> I get he's superficially charming, but it all wears thin after a while.


But she accused him of being a wife beater.    And that certainly wasn't admitted to.

He admitted.to being jealous and a drunken arsehole.  Unpleasant, but not the same thing at all.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> You missed the apologies for appalling behaviour when intoxicated? The wrecking places, which has gone on for decades? The admitted jealousy? You missed the toxic narcissistic declaration in court about her never getting his glance again? The photos of the state he got in? The withdrawals and threats in texts and emails he admitted to? How would you feel if a mate was with someone like him?
> 
> I get he's superficially charming, but it all wears thin after a while.


How would you feel if a mate was with someone like her?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 1, 2022)

Sue said:


> But y'know, apart from that ^ , great bloke.


Has anyone said he's a great bloke?


----------



## Sue (Jun 1, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Has anyone said he's a great bloke?


Yes.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Has anyone said he's a great bloke?


Most of his friends and staff tbf. Most of his co stars and ex partners


----------



## two sheds (Jun 1, 2022)

plus his fans have - have you seen some of the social media posts?


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> But she accused him of being a wife beater.    And that certainly wasn't admitted to.
> 
> He admitted.to being jealous and a drunken arsehole.  Unpleasant, but not the same thing at all.


The Sun called him a wife beater and won their case. 

She said she was a spokeswoman for domestic abuse and lost. 

I think regardless of what you think of her or the previous verdict that decision is a nonsense.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Most of his friends and staff tbf. Most of his co stars and ex partners


Wynona Ryder and Vanessa Paradis, both with him for years,  sung his praises to the rooftops. 
He met up with Kate Moss after his gig last night too


----------



## Petcha (Jun 1, 2022)

I'm a bloke who suffered domestic violence at the hands of my ex-wife, but nobody would believe me as she is two feet smaller than me and has an endearing smile. It happens. I lost everything as a result, my family, my home. I never hit back as like many men I have an in-built mechanism not to hit a woman. She alleged I was the abuser which is absolutely not true. So if what Depp says is true then more power to him. I can't believe he got a court to believe him but good on him. They've clearly considered the evidence and decided she's a lying little shit out for money.


----------



## Sue (Jun 1, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> But she accused him of being a wife beater.    And that certainly wasn't admitted to.


He was found to be so in a British court.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> How would you feel if a mate was with someone like her?


I'd sincerely rather have a friend date her than him, despite the fact that she clearly has her problems. From what I witnessed she's far more able to accept her flaws and work on them.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Sue said:


> He was found to be so in a British court.


So you have 100% faith the British Court system is infallible. 
Good to know


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> I'd sincerely rather have a friend date her than him, despite the fact that she clearly has her problems. From what I witnessed she's far more able to accept her flaws and work on them.


And admit to duffing him up. And ridicule him for being a victim of domestic violence. And call him a baby for choosing to leave rather than fight when she got violent.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jun 1, 2022)

JD clearly isn't a saint. But I can relate, I've been a drunken drugged up dickhead, said things I regret, also been on the receiving end of stuff like that. Nothing to be proud of, nothing to blame any other person about... But fuck me if I got accused of or if I accused someone of committing acts of violence and sexual violence if it wasn't true. I too would begin making the case to sue about it. Which IMO JD has done since the original article came out that this is all about. Crazy case from a media sense, but really interesting legally from what I've watched. No winners imo


----------



## Sue (Jun 1, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I'm a bloke who suffered domestic violence at the hands of my ex-wife, but nobody would believe me as she is two feet smaller than me and has an endearing smile. It happens. I lost everything as a result, my family, my home. I never hit back as like many men I have an in-built mechanism not to hit a woman. She alleged I was the abuser which is absolutely not true. So if what Depp says is true then more power to him. I can't believe he got a court to believe him but good on him. *They've clearly considered the evidence and decided she's a lying little shit out for money.*


And a British court considered the evidence and found that she wasn't. 


D'wards said:


> So you have 100% faith the British Court system is infallible.
> Good to know


And you have 100% faith that the US Court system is infallible..? I don't think they can both be, do you?


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Sue said:


> And a British court considered the evidence and found that she wasn't.
> 
> And you have 100% faith that the US Court system is infallible..? I don't think they can both be, do you?


No but I listened to the evidence and made up my mind. I feel you didn't engage much with the case but made up your mind on gender alone


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> So you have 100% faith the British Court system is infallible.
> Good to know


And the American system is an unimpeachable defender of the truth? Let's be honest here, neither system guarantees anything


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> And the American system is an unimpeachable defender of the truth? Let's be honest here, neither system guarantees anything


No but I listened to the evidence


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> And the American system is an unimpeachable defender of the truth? Let's be honest here, neither system guarantees anything


We at least could watch the US version?


----------



## Looby (Jun 1, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> But she accused him of being a wife beater.    And that certainly wasn't admitted to.
> 
> He admitted.to being jealous and a drunken arsehole.  Unpleasant, but not the same thing at all.


Is it ok if the abuse wasn’t physical then?


----------



## Sue (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> No but I listened to the evidence and made up my mind. *I feel you didn't engage much with the case but made up your mind on gender alone*


Do tell us more about your feelings and how you came to this view.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 1, 2022)

Looby said:


> Is it ok if the abuse wasn’t physical then?


Of course not.

But it doesn't make him a wife beater.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

Mumbles274 said:


> We at least could watch the US version?


It shouldn't have been televised. It's been an online hatefest. Genuinely awful.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Sue said:


> Do tell us more about your feelings and how you came to this view.


Cba, I'm gonna go and finish me book and disengage. 
Nanight


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Of course not.
> 
> But it doesn't make him a wife beater.


You know that the US case wasn't about that?


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

Everyone does understand that large sections of the us case weren't heard online?


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> So you have 100% faith the British Court system is infallible.
> Good to know


And you appear to have placed your faith in a majority male US jury, which you wouldn't have done if they'd found the other way. As you note yourself, your loyalty to the legal system is based on your personal interpretation of what you saw.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> So you have 100% faith the British Court system is infallible.
> Good to know


I guess the great thing about this case is you can believe whichever court you prefer to.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 1, 2022)

Whatever she's done or not done, the absolute fuckton of misogynist stuff online about her and her alleged mental health has been horrible. That definitely wasn't all about her, it was like it was an outlet for acceptable hatred and mocking of women.


----------



## Sue (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Cba, I'm gonna go and finish me book and disengage.
> Nanight


I see. So you can pronounce on my thought processes (or apparent lack of thought processes ) based on your 'feelings' but won't/can't back any of that up. That's pretty rubbish tbh.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> It shouldn't have been televised. It's been an online hatefest. Genuinely awful.


That says more about the people partaking in that than the trial imo. The hatefest shouldn't stop the transparency of the judicial system should it? I'm not sure! Is the circus not inevitable and what comes with the status of those involved


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 1, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> he absolute fuckton of misogynist stuff online about her and her alleged mental health has been horrible


And will continue to be for years to come. The crew of scumbags who've been merrily weaponising this as an emblematic example of Evil Manipulative Woman will bring her up at every future case, will throw it in the face of every abused woman who considers taking them to task. It'll be used as fodder for campaigns to undermine "believe the survivor" and fuel for the next generation of incels. It's been a fucking disaster zone.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2022)

Mumbles274 said:


> That says more about the people partaking in that than the trial imo. The hatefest shouldn't stop the transparency of the judicial system should it? I'm not sure! Is the circus not inevitable and what comes with the status of those involved


This trial included a psychologist testifying the most outrageous hateful shite about people with borderline personality disorder I've ever heard. Genuinely dangerous stuff I fear. That kind of biased nonsense is, I understand, fairly typical in the US system, but now many people have heard that women with BPD are untrustworthy, violent manipulators. A group of people we know already experience massive prejudice, even when it comes to getting adequate pain relief when they are ill. A group of people who often have experienced trauma, who apparently are unbelievable liars.

It shouldn't have been televised.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> This trial included a psychologist testifying the most outrageous hateful nonsense about people with borderline personality disorder I've ever heard. Genuinely dangerous stuff I fear. That kind of biased nonsense is, I understand, fairly typical in the US system, but now many people have heard that women with BPD are untrustworthy, violent manipulators. A group of people we know already experience massive prejudice, even when it comes to getting adequate pain relief when they are ill. A group of people who often have experienced trauma, who apparently are unbelievable liars.
> 
> It shouldn't have been televised.


I agree.

Also can't help but wonder if a lot of women get diagnosed with PDs by doctors with sexist preconceptions, when there's actually something post-trauma related going on. And now because this trial is so high profile it's another stick to beat them with.


----------



## Edie (Jun 1, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> This trial included a psychologist testifying the most outrageous hateful shite about people with borderline personality disorder I've ever heard. Genuinely dangerous stuff I fear. That kind of biased nonsense is, I understand, fairly typical in the US system, but now many people have heard that women with BPD are untrustworthy, violent manipulators. A group of people we know already experience massive prejudice, even when it comes to getting adequate pain relief when they are ill. A group of people who often have experienced trauma, who apparently are unbelievable liars.
> 
> It shouldn't have been televised.


BPD/EUPD is the epitome of misogynistic victim blaming. Women and girls respond to trauma by learning successful survival strategies that later become maladaptive.


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 1, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Its too obscure, no one would get it.
> 
> In the monty python sketch where the bloke writes the funniest joke in the world, which kills anyone from laughing who hears it, they have it translated into German.
> The English army run towards the Germans in the war reciting it and they all died laughing.
> My pal wrote down the German translation to try and get it translated back to English but it is gibberish German sounding words



Argh, I would have got it! Do I get bonus points for being able to recite the whole joke? Phonetically, it's something like 'Ven ist ein nerlstuchk git un schlottermeir. Ja, veihund das oder die flipperwalt gespuck'.

I learned it off by heart as a kid, and would ask people if they wanted to hear the funniest joke in the world, then recite it.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 1, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> Argh, I would have got it! Do I get bonus points for being able to recite the whole joke? Phonetically, it's something like 'Ven ist ein nerlstuchk git un schlottermeir. Ja, veihund das oder die flipperwalt gespuck'.
> 
> I learned it off by heart as a kid, and would ask people if they wanted to hear the funniest joke in the world, then recite it.


Brilliant!


----------



## 8ball (Jun 2, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> jury comprised of 5 men and 2 women apparently. Guess the outcome isn’t that surprising



Would have been less surprising had it been 5 women and 2 men, if the reactions on my Facebook feed are anything to go by.

One post by a female US colleague has about 30 reactions (nothing very detailed, mostly variations on “yay!”), with all but 2 being from women.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 2, 2022)

Buddy Bradley said:


> It's probably a German word.



Unbediggenmetzeunenschrugd.

(umlaut on the last ‘u’)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 2, 2022)

I've not been following, and I don't really care either way about it, but it's weird that it's a jury trial. Strange misuse of the duty to do jury service. Why the fuck should anyone be obligated as a citizen to adjudicate over rubbish like this for rich people?


----------



## 8ball (Jun 2, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I've not been following, and I don't really care either way about it, but it's weird that it's a jury trial. Strange misuse of the duty to do jury service. Why the fuck should anyone be obligated as a citizen to adjudicate over rubbish like this for rich people?



Yeah, I was surprised it was a jury case too.


----------



## spring-peeper (Jun 2, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I've not been following, and I don't really care either way about it, but it's weird that it's a jury trial. Strange misuse of the duty to do jury service. Why the fuck should anyone be obligated as a citizen to adjudicate over rubbish like this for rich people?



I agree!!!!

From the headlines I read, they both seem to be idiots/abusers/victims.....
This should have been handled by something like divorce court.

_Maybe_, the telecasting of this was supposed to divert our attention to more serious matters.  No clue what...


----------



## Petcha (Jun 2, 2022)

Heard didn't want cameras in there but Depp insisted it was all broadcast. Read into that what you will, I guess he was saying he had nothing to hide but god knows whose decision it was to let him win that little battle. He should give the winnings to charity anyway if as he says 'this isn't about the money'.


----------



## spring-peeper (Jun 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Heard didn't want cameras in there but Depp insisted it was all broadcast. Read into that what you will, I guess he was saying he had nothing to hide but god knows whose decision it was to let him win that little battle. He should give the winnings to charity anyway if as he says 'this isn't about the money'.




When Heard got money from Depp, she said it was not about the money.  She claimed all the money went to charities.  But it did not, she lied.

It will be interesting to see if he donates the any.


----------



## bimble (Jun 2, 2022)

just watched a 7 minute video of the 'best bits' of the trial and jesus christ what a soul destroying horror show. How anyone could get all emotionally invested in this and spend their time & energy "supporting" either of them like its a reality tv competition is fucking beyond me. Horrible depressing shit from every angle but what it says about the enthusiastic spectators is worse than what it says about the actors themselves.


----------



## Poot (Jun 2, 2022)

bimble said:


> just watched a 7 minute video of the 'best bits' of the trial and jesus christ what a soul destroying horror show. How anyone could get all emotionally invested in this and spend their time & energy "supporting" either of them like its a reality tv competition is fucking beyond me. Horrible depressing shit from every angle but what it says about the enthusiastic spectators is worse than what it says about the actors themselves.


Innit. I don't know what Johnny Depp, Amber Heard and the whole bloody world needed but I don't think it was this.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 2, 2022)

Not really that interested in a couple of rich, spoilt druggies tbf. 

With regards to winning the U.K. round of this though, Heard has since admitted to lieing to the High Court in that one, anyone know if that may come back to haunt her a la Archer / Aitken?


----------



## kenny g (Jun 2, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not really that interested in a couple of rich, spoilt druggies tbf.
> 
> With regards to winning the U.K. round of this though, Heard has since admitted to lieing to the High Court in that one, anyone know if that may come back to haunt her a la Archer / Aitken?


I have known plenty of people who behave far better than either of them when completely and utterly off their minds so not entirely sure it is fair to besmirch drug users in that way. 

I know the Met. Police have strange priorities but issuing an international arrest warrant for  perjury against Heard so we can have a further trial potentially leading to her imprisonment is hopefully not going to be top of the list for the new commissioner. Having said that if BoJo gets really desperate about changing the news agenda - who knows.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 2, 2022)

kenny g said:


> I have known plenty of people who behave far better than either of them when completely and utterly off their minds so not entirely sure it is fair to besmirch drug users in that way.
> 
> I know the Met. Police have strange priorities but issuing an international arrest warrant for  perjury against Heard so we can have a further trial potentially leading to her imprisonment is hopefully not going to be top of the list for the new commissioner. Having said that if BoJo gets really desperate about changing the news agenda - who knows.




Most of us who have caned it have behaved as bad, difference being when we come round we tend to feel a little shame at our actions and don’t choose to fight about them in multi-million dollar court cases.

And it isn’t the police who issue arrest warrants, they enforce them.


----------



## girasol (Jun 2, 2022)

Depp won because he had the best attorneys - in this show trial they were the best actors/manipulators.  It really is a bad day for victims of domestic violence.  Heard's team made mistakes and, well, the truth isn't always what counts in court.

If only Depp had the courage to admit he'd been under the influence of drugs (he admitted this much) and he couldn't POSSIBLY REMEMBER everything he did or said while he was in the throes of addiction  - so how can he be so sure of what he did or didn't do???  Because there was so much money involved there was no space for grey areas, no room for doubt - so this shit show was the result.


----------



## Shechemite (Jun 2, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> This trial included a psychologist testifying the most outrageous hateful shite about people with borderline personality disorder I've ever heard. Genuinely dangerous stuff I fear. That kind of biased nonsense is, I understand, fairly typical in the US system, but now many people have heard that women with BPD are untrustworthy, violent manipulators. A group of people we know already experience massive prejudice, even when it comes to getting adequate pain relief when they are ill. A group of people who often have experienced trauma, who apparently are unbelievable liars.
> 
> It shouldn't have been televised.



This


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 2, 2022)

It may well be far from over


----------



## Shechemite (Jun 2, 2022)




----------



## Cloo (Jun 2, 2022)

Twitter is depressing as fuck this morning, with lots of men posting sneering memes about MeToo as if it was a charter for false accusations and this has proved once and for all that all, or at least a significant number of women are liars when it comes to abuse.


----------



## Cloo (Jun 2, 2022)

Apparently abusers are already calling their victims 'Amber' and 'Ms Heard' when they complain or threat to do something about it, to undermine and gaslight them.


----------



## Cid (Jun 2, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> And you appear to have placed your faith in a majority male US jury, which you wouldn't have done if they'd found the other way. As you note yourself, your loyalty to the legal system is based on your personal interpretation of what you saw.



You also can't go forum shopping in the UK. There's a reason this was heard in Virginia.

There are a lot of problems with the UK justice system, but once you start digging into shit like appointment of justices, jury selection/voir dire, SLAPP laws etc it starts to seem almost good.


----------



## Thora (Jun 2, 2022)

Depressing but unsurprising outcome.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Most of us who have caned it have behaved as bad,


You’ve smeared your partners menstrual blood over the wall? Indulged in murderous fantasies? 

No we fucking haven’t.


----------



## IC3D (Jun 2, 2022)

She used metoo to lie about being abused to cover up her own violent actions. 
JD wanted to clear his name. Simple.
I'm sure most male DV enthusiasts have emotional problems too, diddums to them too, hope they all get the help they need and can reflect on the consequences of their actions


----------



## D'wards (Jun 2, 2022)

I kind of suspect when all the #metoo etc was kicking off that Heard just wanted to join in.
She didn't make any specific allegations at the time but refered to herself as a "domestic violence survivor" in vague terms.  Didn't even name Depp.

When it kicked off she was caught in a lie and it probably spiralled out of control for her.
Like when a kid is caught fibbing and when questioned on it they panic and provide too much evidence and it all gets a bit fantastical.


----------



## bimble (Jun 2, 2022)

Hi D'wards, its a whole six months since i asked you this & you ignored the question which is fair enough but I'm still (genuinely) curious.

Can you explain what it is that has made you so invested in this whole story and the wrongdoings of jonny depp’s ex wife ?
Are you a big JD fan or is it something else that's made you follow the story with so much interest?


----------



## D'wards (Jun 2, 2022)

bimble said:


> Hi D'wards, its a whole six months since i asked you this & you ignored the question which is fair enough but I'm still (genuinely) curious.
> 
> Can you explain what it is that has made you so invested in this whole story and the wrongdoings of jonny depp’s ex wife ?
> Are you a big JD fan or is it something else that's made you follow the story with so much interest?


I'm not a huge jd fan but think he's alright. The footage of him at GOSH etc etc always warned me cockles. 

Its more examining the evidence carefully and being convinced hes innocent.
I'm not an apologist for wife beaters- two people who are well loved and I should love can get to fuck- Mike Tyson and Gazza. 

If I don't engage its cos sometimes I catch myself,  and realise that arguing with strangers on the Internet who you'll never find common ground with is one of the most pointless things a person can do, and a complete waste of time. Its not personal. 

So if things get a bit heavy on threads, as they do on urban 75, I disengage and go and clean the toilet or something.


----------



## bimble (Jun 2, 2022)

ye ok but i still don't understand it, what made you and millions of other people so keen to "examine the evidence carefully" , for hours and months.
Its ok i'll just add it the big pile of things about my fellow humans that i don't understand and find depressing.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 2, 2022)

bimble said:


> Hi D'wards, its a whole six months since i asked you this & you ignored the question which is fair enough but I'm still (genuinely) curious.
> 
> Can you explain what it is that has made you so invested in this whole story and the wrongdoings of jonny depp’s ex wife ?
> Are you a big JD fan or is it something else that's made you follow the story with so much interest?


Plus you are implying that my support of Depp is weird or indicative of something more sinister.

I can only assume you live in a happy little u75 bubble/echo chamber.

He has so much support from people- mostly women .
Just look at twitter


----------



## D'wards (Jun 2, 2022)

bimble said:


> ye ok but i still don't understand it, what made you and millions of other people so keen to "examine the evidence carefully" , for hours and months.
> Its ok i'll just add it the big pile of things about my fellow humans that i don't understand and find depressing.


Love a juicy courtroom drama, innit.

Me and me pals used to visit the gallery of the Crown Court in those happy unemployed days occasionally. Fascinating


----------



## bimble (Jun 2, 2022)

no its ok thanks. i saw a thing on tiktok just now, over 220 thousand people 'liking' a vid that says he had every right to kill her. That's a lot of support its true.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 2, 2022)

bimble said:


> no its ok thanks. i saw a thing on tiktok just now, over 220 thousand people 'liking' a vid that says he had every right to kill her. That's a lot of support.


Don't believe everything you read in comment pieces in the Guardian...


----------



## bimble (Jun 2, 2022)




----------



## D'wards (Jun 2, 2022)

bimble said:


> View attachment 325154


Well that is vile. People are disappointing largely


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 2, 2022)

Good piece here on what the jury got wrong - one of the three statements they deemed defamatory was a headline that wasn't even written by Heard.









						Opinion | How the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard jury got it wrong — twice
					

No one should have won. Everyone should have lost.




					www.nbcnews.com


----------



## Petcha (Jun 2, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> Good piece here on what the jury got wrong - one of the three statements they deemed defamatory was a headline that wasn't even written by Heard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well yes that would have been the sub-editor. if that wasn't pointed out to the jury by her lawyers then she needs to change lawyer.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 2, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Plus you are implying that my support of Depp is weird or indicative of something more sinister.
> 
> I can only assume you live in a happy little u75 bubble/echo chamber.
> 
> ...



So what? People's hatred is easily amplified when given well-established targets, especially in groups.


----------



## Petcha (Jun 2, 2022)

I also dont understand how the compensation thing is capped at £350k in Virginia but they got millions


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I also dont understand how the compensation thing is capped at £350k in Virginia but they got millions


Punitive damages


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Plus you are implying that my support of Depp is weird or indicative of something more sinister.
> 
> I can only assume you live in a happy little u75 bubble/echo chamber.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure any of these supporters came to the trial with no prior knowledge of depp


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Punitive damages


350k is the maximum allowed in punitive damages - that's why the judge reduced it from the jury's $5m to 350k


----------



## Petcha (Jun 2, 2022)

belboid said:


> 350k is the maximum allowed in punitive damages - that's why the judge reduced it from the jury's $5m to 350k



So how much are they actually getting? It sounds like the jury just threw some darts at a dartboard to come up with these numbers


----------



## cesare (Jun 2, 2022)

belboid said:


> 350k is the maximum allowed in punitive damages - that's why the judge reduced it from the jury's $5m to 350k


Max in that county, but yes.


----------



## cesare (Jun 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well yes that would have been the sub-editor. if that wasn't pointed out to the jury by her lawyers then she needs to change lawyer.


The statement that the jury had to find on, was whether she made or published the statement. She didn't make it, it was written by someone else. But she re-published it in her tweet.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2022)

belboid said:


> 350k is the maximum allowed in punitive damages - that's why the judge reduced it from the jury's $5m to 350k


My mistake, compensatory damages


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 2, 2022)

cesare said:


> The statement that the jury had to find on, was whether she made or published the statement. She didn't make it, it was written by someone else. But she re-published it in her tweet.



Good to know that anybody who retweets an article that says Amber Heard is a victim of domestic violence might be liable to being sued for tens of millions 👍


----------



## cesare (Jun 2, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Good to know that anybody who retweets an article that says Amber Heard is a victim of domestic violence might be liable to being sued for tens of millions 👍


If she'd just retweeted it she would have been fine. But she didn't just do that. She quoted the op-ed and said amongst other things "today I published this op-ed ..." Which amounted to re-publishing with intent to reach a wider audience etc.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 2, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Good to know that anybody who retweets an article that says Amber Heard is a victim of domestic violence might be liable to being sued for tens of millions 👍


On the other hand  it's good to know that people who retweet lies are liable to be held accountable.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 2, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> On the other hand  it's good to know that people who retweet lies are liable to be held accountable.


Glad the billionaire corpse-fuck fantasist who defends child rapists got his justice.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 2, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Glad the billionaire corpse-fuck fantasist who defends child rapists got his justice.


Depp and Marilyn Manson are very close friends. Manson is suing Evan Rachel Wood for "defamation and distress." 
He must have been pleased to hear the result of this trial.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 2, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> On the other hand  it's good to know that people who retweet lies are liable to be held accountable.



...if the massive ego of a billionaire feels threatened.

Yeah, twitter must be crapping themselves.


----------



## Sue (Jun 2, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Depp and Marilyn Manson are very close friends. Manson is suing Evan Rachel Wood for "defamation and distress."
> He must have been pleased to hear the result of this trial.


I wasn't familiar with this but looks like more of the same.

'In 2016, Wood told a _Rolling Stone_ reporter she had been raped twice years ago, once by a "significant other".[81][82] In February 2018, she testified before the United States House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security and Investigations in support of the Sexual Assault Survivors' Bill of Rights Act.[83]

In April 2019, she testified before the California Senate to help pass the Phoenix Act, which extended the statute of limitations in domestic-violence cases from three to five years and requires police to have additional training.[84] In her testimony, Wood said the abuse she experienced by Marilyn Manson had been physical, sexual and emotional,[85] including antisemitism,[86][87][88] and that she had subsequently been diagnosed with complex post-traumatic stress disorder.[89][90]

*In February 2021, Wood named Manson as her alleged abuser on Instagram,[91] where four other women made similar allegations against him.[92] The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department said they were investigating Manson due to allegations of domestic violence.[93] To date, sixteen people have made accusations against Manson, and four have sued for sexual assault.[94]'*









						Evan Rachel Wood - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




😡


----------



## redcogs (Jun 2, 2022)

someone called me a republican cunt today!  Even though its correct (the republican bit), im going to sue them for $15 million..  my accountant reckons its easy money.

The cult of celebrity is completely insane - all the focus is about how tough slack arsed celebs have it.  What a super sick joke.


----------



## David Clapson (Jun 2, 2022)

I've not read this thread, but in a nutshell what's the legal argument that the article was defamatory? I can't see anything defamatory in it.  It could be inferred from it that Depp was accused of abuse, but not that he was guilty of it. So where's the logic?


----------



## Cloo (Jun 2, 2022)

As this article concludes,  the verdict says to abused women:
'_We can ruin HER, they are telling us. Just imagine how bad it will be for YOU.'_









						It's the Dehumanization, Bitches
					

Amber Heard, Misogyny, and the End of Another American Myth




					newsletterwithecm.substack.com


----------



## 8ball (Jun 2, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I've not read this thread, but in a nutshell what's the legal argument that the article was defamatory? I can't see anything defamatory in it.  It could be inferred from it that Depp was accused of abuse, but not that he was guilty of it. So where's the logic?



Just read the 27 pages, dammit!


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 2, 2022)

The perceived wisdom is that it is much easier to win a defamation case in the UK than in the US, where the enshrinement of free speech in the first amendment of the constitution is sacrosanct. So what happened in this case to reverse the expected result?

Mark Stephens, an international media lawyer, said the fact that the US case was heard before a jury while the UK trial was heard before a judge was significant.

“Because the US trial was before a jury, it allowed Depp’s lawyers to focus on Heard,” a well-worn tactic of defendants in domestic abuse cases but one that was dismissed by the judge in the UK, Stephens said.

“They deny that they [their client] did anything, they deny they’re the real perpetrator, and they attack the credibility of the individual calling out the abuse, and then reverse the rolls of the victim and the offender.”

Heard’s team also made tactical mistakes and were outdone by a more experienced set of lawyers, Stephens added. “Heard’s team were not predominantly trained libel lawyers and they were outgunned at every corner. They were up against a very strong team for Depp,” he said.

According to the US academic who coined the term Darvo and has studied the tactics used by alleged sexual predators, social media was used to undermine Heard’s case and bolster Depp’s.

Jennifer Freyd, a professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Oregon, said the traducing of Heard’s reputation online was “overwhelming”.

“Darvo refers to a reaction [that alleged] perpetrators of wrongdoing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behaviour,” she said.

“This occurs, for instance, when an actually guilty perpetrator assumes the role of ‘falsely accused’ and attacks the accuser’s credibility and blames the accuser of being the perpetrator of a false accusation.

“What we have witnessed in the US over this case has been an overwhelming case for Depp on social media. It is like an anti-Heard campaign and there has been a lot of Darvo.”

On TikTok, the hashtag #justiceforjohnnydepp received 19bn views. Jurors were instructed not to read about the case online but they were not sequestered and they were allowed to keep their phones.









						Why did the Depp-Heard libel outcomes differ in the US and UK?
					

Analysis: Specialist lawyers, a jury trial, social media and targeting Heard all helped Depp win in Virginia




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Hollis (Jun 2, 2022)

Jeff- there was more below the insert..

Persephone Bridgman Baker, a partner at libel specialists Carter-Ruck, said that ultimately the jury believed Depp. “There seems no more obvious explanation than that the jury simply believed Depp’s evidence in the US proceedings, or, if you accept that a Darvo strategy was employed, that the jury accepted it.

“There was more evidence in the US proceedings about Heard’s credibility, on which the judge in the UK placed little importance: that is likely to have been a deliberate strategic decision by Depp’s team. While the judge in the UK proceedings decided Heard was a credible witness, that additional evidence may have swung a jury,” she said.

Will the US result have consequences for other women who wish to make claims of harassment or abuse against high-profile individuals, anywhere in the world? Freyd said it will. “Others who wish to make claims will see what has happened in this case, and see what has happened to Heard, and think twice. Many will be afraid to talk,” she said.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

I listened to a podcast discussing the case saying that one of the ways Depps lawyers had made his case more believable is that they'd got her to admit lying about donating money to charity, saying that she had claimed to donate money to DV charities whereas in reality she had only 'pledged' to do so and not done it yet. If this is true it makes her look pretty bad and I wondered whether this is what happened? I don't really want to watch any of the videos and memes etc. 

I think no matter what the result was it was always going to have a bad effect on whether people who had experienced domestic violence wanted to speak up. Depp stans seem to be the worst but even without them it was turned into a horrible social media spectacle and couldn't have been good for both of them, and was definitely not what 'justice' needed


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

The verdict where they were both found guilty just shows how totally nonsensical it was tbh. It's definitely going to deter people from speaking up, what a shitshow


----------



## Thora (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I listened to a podcast discussing the case saying that one of the ways Depps lawyers had made his case more believable is that they'd got her to admit lying about donating money to charity, saying that she had claimed to donate money to DV charities whereas in reality she had only 'pledged' to do so and not done it yet. If this is true it makes her look pretty bad and I wondered whether this is what happened? I don't really want to watch any of the videos and memes etc.
> 
> I think no matter what the result was it was always going to have a bad effect on whether people who had experienced domestic violence wanted to speak up. Depp stans seem to be the worst but even without them it was turned into a horrible social media spectacle and couldn't have been good for both of them, and was definitely not what 'justice' needed


She's not very likeable.  She's probably not a very nice person and not someone you'd want to be friends with.  But regardless of whether she is nice or not, donating money etc has no impact on whether Depp was abusive.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> The verdict where they were both found guilty just shows how totally nonsensical it was tbh. It's definitely going to deter people from speaking up, what a shitshow



I haven’t been following it.  Do you think the final verdict was unjust?


----------



## D'wards (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I listened to a podcast discussing the case saying that one of the ways Depps lawyers had made his case more believable is that they'd got her to admit lying about donating money to charity, saying that she had claimed to donate money to DV charities whereas in reality she had only 'pledged' to do so and not done it yet. If this is true it makes her look pretty bad and I wondered whether this is what happened? I don't really want to watch any of the videos and memes etc.


Its true! Although she did get Elon Musk to donate some amount of it.

This was omitted from the UK trial








						Amber Heard, Elon Musk, and a Multimillion-Dollar Mystery
					

Testimony in the Johnny Depp v. Amber Heard defamation trial — plus emails uncovered by Rolling Stone — reveal cozy ties between the actress, the billionaire, and the ACLU




					www.rollingstone.com


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

Thora said:


> She's not very likeable.  She's probably not a very nice person and not someone you'd want to be friends with.  But regardless of whether she is nice or not, donating money etc has no impact on whether Depp was abusive.


I agree! It's not what the case was about, it's just that lying about donating money was one of the ways in which Depp discredited her testimony, I just wondered if there was any truth to the claims tbh.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> I haven’t been following it.  Do you think the final verdict was unjust?


Yeah I do, I don't see how this could have been a fair trial for either of them with all the social media frenzy. It should never have been on TV. 

Edited: maybe not


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah I do, I don't see how this could have been a fair trial for either of them with all the social media frenzy. It should never have been on TV. The fact that the Jurors were allowed to look at memes of the trial etc is just mad.



I wasn’t aware of that, and it is mad.
Was more interested in whether you thought the verdict was wrong rather than arrived at unsoundly, though.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

I'd have thought the likelihood of jurors checking their phones would be a part of the appeal. Not that any appeal will make a difference to the social media lynching


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Its true! Although she did get Elon Musk to donate some amount of it.
> 
> This was omitted from the UK trial
> 
> ...


Lol fucking hell 

I do think Depp is an abusive piece of shit and the wider implications of it do worry me especially in the current climate. But jeez there is so much corruption and dirty money in the American system, not specifically related to this trial but it showcases a lot of it


----------



## Thora (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I agree! It's not what the case was about, it's just that lying about donating money was one of the ways in which Depp discredited her testimony, I just wondered if there was any truth to the claims tbh.


Probably true.  I think this is the difference in outcomes between a jury trial and the judge only.  The judge wasn't interested in whether Heard is nice or what Tiktok was saying about her, it was just about whether Depp was abusive.
The American trial was all about whether Heard was a 'good' victim (she isn't).


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> I wasn’t aware of that, and it is mad.
> Was more interested in whether you thought the verdict was wrong rather than arrived at unsoundly, though.



I don't know tbh because I wasnt there and didn't follow it obsessively. The wider implications this is gonna have on speaking up about abuse are fucking horrendous though. And probably would have been even if Heard had won albeit slightly less so


----------



## spring-peeper (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> It's definitely going to deter people from speaking up, what a shitshow




I doubt it will stop people from speaking up.

It might encourage abused men to press charges.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

Thora said:


> Probably true.  I think this is the difference in outcomes between a jury trial and the judge only.  The judge wasn't interested in whether Heard is nice or what Tiktok was saying about her, it was just about whether Depp was abusive.
> The American trial was all about whether Heard was a 'good' victim (she isn't).


Yeah the UK trial wasnt interested in what else the parties had lied about. Just whether Depp was abusive (and he was suing the Sun rather than Heard at that point so her giving money to charity etc probably didn't come into it) 

The American trial seemed to be about whether they had suffered damage to the reputation irrespective of the truth of the claims (hence why they found that Depps lawyers had committed libel).


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> I doubt it will stop people from speaking up.


I think the thought of being savaged on tiktok etc is definitely going to deter a lot of people


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I don't know tbh because I wasnt there and didn't follow it obsessively. The wider implications this is gonna have on speaking up about abuse are fucking horrendous though. And probably would have been even if Heard had won albeit slightly less so



This was just a passive impression I picked up, but from the things Depp’s exes had said it seemed like he was reacting under some duress.  But then I don’t even know the detail aside from that it didn’t seem like he was a naturally abusive person.

And of course people sometimes change.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

Hasn't he been accused of other stuff though? What a fucking mess


----------



## spring-peeper (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I think the thought of being savaged on tiktok etc is definitely going to deter a lot of people




Social media loves attacking people.
If you are gonna press charges, just stay off of social media.


----------



## Thora (Jun 3, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> I doubt it will stop people from speaking up.
> 
> It might encourage abused men to press charges.


Plenty of men are already using threats of defamation charges against their victims.  The very few victims who actually speak up in the first place.

But yeah, poor men definitely.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> Social media loves attacking people.
> If you are gonna press charges, just stay off of social media.


Not always that simple though?


----------



## spring-peeper (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Not always that simple though?




How so?

The only social media I use is this place and facebook.


----------



## Sue (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> This was just a passive impression I picked up, but from the things Depp’s exes had said it seemed like he was reacting under some duress.  But then I don’t even know the detail aside from that it didn’t seem like he was a naturally abusive person.


How does a 'naturally abusive person' seem and what are you basing this seeming on? 

And what does it have to do with anything anyway?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

I mean not using social media won't make any difference as to whether someone makes memes about the trial? (Possibly influencing the outcome) 


spring-peeper said:


> How so?
> 
> The only social media I use is this place and facebook.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Sue said:


> How does a 'naturally abusive person' seem and what are you basing this seeming on?
> 
> And what does it have to do with anything anyway?



I’m not speaking from a position of knowledge of the case, but it’s not the normal pattern for a man to become violent in his 40’s or 50’s.

Even men who were violent in earlier decades often age out of it.  It’s one of those arguments about rehabilitation - did the programmes matter or was it just getting older.

I did read somewhere that Heard had a previous pattern of violence to partners, though, or at least one partner.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

On what basis does anyone think that the jurors were allowed to follow the progress of the trial via social media? The control and behaviour of the court seemed quite strict to me.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

I thought he was accused of assaulting someone on a film set?


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I thought he was accused of assaulting someone on a film set?


Ive watched much of the trial but don't remember that. Could have missed it though.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

Johnny Depp Denies Punching Crew Member But Argues Injuries Are Due to 'Self-Defense'
					

A location manager said in July that Depp punched him twice on set of "City of Lies"




					www.thewrap.com


----------



## Thora (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> On what basis does anyone think that the jurors were allowed to follow the progress of the trial via social media? The control and behaviour of the court seemed quite strict to me.


Were they prevented from access to media/social media in any way?  I hadn't read that.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> On what basis does anyone think that the jurors were allowed to follow the progress of the trial via social media? The control and behaviour of the court seemed quite strict to me.



Must be a bloody nightmare making sure the rules are followed these days.


----------



## spring-peeper (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I mean not using social media won't make any difference as to whether someone makes memes about the trial? (Possibly influencing the outcome)




That would be an issue if the proceedings were as public as the Depp case was.

Most of the trials go on without the circus media.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> On what basis does anyone think that the jurors were allowed to follow the progress of the trial via social media? The control and behaviour of the court seemed quite strict to me.


I didn't watch it but the fact that they weren't sequestered,  ie went home each day and were allowed to keep their phones? They were instructed not to read about it online TBF and I don't know what the punishment would be if they had been found out. But given the obsessive news coverage of the story it would be hard NOT to see stuff about it pushed into your feed tbh. It would have been massively difficult to stop them or even enforce it tbh


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I didn't watch it but the fact that they weren't sequestered,  ie went home each day and were allowed to keep their phones? They were instructed not to read about it online TBF and I don't know what the punishment would be if they had been found out. But given the obsessive news coverage of the story it would be hard NOT to see stuff about it pushed into your feed tbh. It would have been massively difficult to stop them or even enforce it tbh



Yeah, that makes it impossible to really say that the internet feeding frenzy had no effect on things.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Thora said:


> Were they prevented from access to media/social media in any way?  I hadn't read that.


I think they were advised not to read about the case and restricted re phones. There was also the thing they do with alternate jurors plus unanimous person by person affirmative decision (rather than a spokesperson on behalf of all).

I think the court was very strict with witnesses eg one of Depp's witnesses was excused because she admitted listening to some of the previous testimony. Exit one of his witnesses.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Must be a bloody nightmare making sure the rules are followed these days.


Yes! Another thing that I'm interested in is how traditional news agencies are starting to be referred to as "legacy media".


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Yes! Another thing that I'm interested in is how traditional news agencies are starting to be referred to as "legacy media".



The term has been in use since the late 90’s, I think.  Followed on rapidly from the coining of the term “new media”.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> I think they were advised not to read about the case and restricted re phones. There was also the thing they do with alternate jurors plus unanimous person by person affirmative decision (rather than a spokesperson on behalf of all).
> 
> I think the court was very strict with witnesses eg one of Depp's witnesses was excused because she admitted listening to some of the previous testimony. Exit one of his witnesses.


Here's an article about the juror selection process. Ive edited my previous post. 

How many jurors there are in the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial, and how they were chosen


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> The term has been in use since the late 90’s, I think.  Followed on rapidly from the coining of the term “new media”.


Perhaps this is the first time its applicability has really sunk in with me


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Perhaps this is the first time its applicability has really sunk in with me



I’m not 100% on this tbf but “new media” was def late 90’s.  I’d guess they would have needed an antonym fairly quickly.

It gets a bit foggy because we didn’t have
really good search engines and archiving til a few years after.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> I’m not 100% on this tbf but “new media” was def late 90’s.  I’d guess they would have needed an antonym fairly quickly.


Yes I expect you're right. I accept I'm behind the times with how they're described.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Yes I expect you're right. I accept I'm behind the times with how they're described.



Just trying to rack my brains re: the evolution of internet search algorithms.
I was a fan of Webcrawler til about 2000.  Google took over very rapidly about then.
There was an outage in 2001 for an afternoon and it was like the world had ended in the tech world.  We’ve been massively dependent on the internet for a couple of decades now.

Then smartphones came and ramped it up a thousandfold.

Whoah, I feel old.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I didn't watch it but the fact that they weren't sequestered,  ie went home each day and were allowed to keep their phones? They were instructed not to read about it online TBF and I don't know what the punishment would be if they had been found out. But given the obsessive news coverage of the story it would be hard NOT to see stuff about it pushed into your feed tbh. It would have been massively difficult to stop them or even enforce it tbh


I agree that the juror system is fallible but I'd still rather have it than not.
Someone more on it than me will be able to put me straight on this, but isn't the decision on jurors quite a big deal in terms of US litigation?  More so than here?


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Just trying to rack my brains re: the evolution of internet search algorithms.
> I was a fan of Webcrawler til about 2000.  Google took over very rapidly about then.
> There was an outage in 2001 for an afternoon and it was like the world had ended in the tech world.  We’ve been massively dependent on the internet for a couple of decades now.
> 
> ...


That sends me back to the turn of the century when we didn't have the meltdown predicted so I think an afternoon outage in 2001 possibly went unnoticed   

I also feel old


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## Lurdan (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I listened to a podcast discussing the case saying that one of the ways Depps lawyers had made his case more believable is that they'd got her to admit lying about donating money to charity, saying that she had claimed to donate money to DV charities whereas in reality she had only 'pledged' to do so and not done it yet. If this is true it makes her look pretty bad and I wondered whether this is what happened? I don't really want to watch any of the videos and memes etc.



The barrister Matthew Scott has written a blog post suggesting this was a significant moment in her cross examination. 

Depp v. Heard: Why did an American jury reach a different decision than the English judge? – BarristerBlogger

He quotes the transcript. The evidence she gave during the UK trial that, quote, "_the entire amount of my divorce settlement was donated to charity_" was put to her. She had just agreed that she hadn't actually done this yet.



> It is very hard to see how Ms Heard’s assertion in her evidence in the English libel trial that she had donated the entire divorce settlement to charity was anything other than perjury. (...) I have never been anywhere near a celebrity libel trial, but I can confirm that any jury will always sit up and take notice if it can be shown that an important witness has lied on oath. It doesn’t happen very often, but when it does you know that the liar’s case is on the rocks and can only be refloated with the greatest of difficulty. Whatever view the Virginian jury may have had of Ms Heard’s case before it listened to that evidence, after this their confidence would have been shaken in everything else she said.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 3, 2022)

.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

That bit of her US testimony was strange. She first said that Depp's case against her had prevented her from giving the money, then admitted that she'd had chance to give the money before then. The lawyer repeatedly asked her whether she'd given the money and she repeatedly said that she'd committed to giving it, and finally said giving it and committing to giving it were the same thing to her.

Her lawyers didn't do her any favours either - one objected to a lot of questions because of hearsay and at one point he asked one of the witnesses a question and as the witness was replying he interrupted saying "Objection, hearsay".  The judge had to point out that he was the one asking the question.


----------



## Athos (Jun 3, 2022)

The whole issue around donating her divorce settlement obliterated her credibility to the jury.  His legal team exploited thr fact she'd painted herself into a corner, to the fullest.  She had to stick to the line that pledging and donating are the same thing, despite it being ridiculous and making her look shifty; anything else and she'd have effectively admitted perjuring herself in the English proceedings.


----------



## Graymalkin (Jun 3, 2022)

Athos said:


> The whole issue around donating her divorce settlement obliterated her credibility to the jury.  His legal team exploited thr fact she'd painted herself into a corner, to the fullest.  She had to stick to the line that pledging and donating are the same thing, despite it being ridiculous and making her look shifty; anything else and she'd have effectively admitted perjuring herself in the English proceedings.


I have to wonder if it negates to some extent the judge vs jury question with this case.  Surely a judge would have to, purely on procedural grounds, treat her as an unreliable witness as well.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> I’m not speaking from a position of knowledge of the case, but it’s not the normal pattern for a man to become violent in his 40’s or 50’s.
> 
> Even men who were violent in earlier decades often age out of it.  It’s one of those arguments about rehabilitation - did the programmes matter or was it just getting older.
> 
> I did read somewhere that Heard had a previous pattern of violence to partners, though, or at least one partner.


You see this i have the problem with. This is a man who has lived a life, had several long term partners who all testified he'd never laid a finger on them.
A man who seemingly was beloved by his staff and friends and colleagues would suddenly turn and do the most horrendous things Heard accused him of out of the blue.
He was very good friends/ drug buddies with Heard's dad, who loved Johnny (now deceased)
After a question from bimble I gave it a bit of thought and I have always very much liked Depp, mainly from the fact that whenever in a city he gets into costume as Jack Sparrow and visits the local Cancer hospitals and spends the afternoon there chatting to the patients in character, children and adults.
Its an incredibly sweet thing to do and he doesn't have to do it.

Heard has been caught in a lie more than once- the divorce payment thing but also she claimed he cut the end of his finger with a phone iirc, he states she threw a vodka bottle at him.
The operating surgeon testified saying the laceration was caused by a sharp object like broken glass.

This really is a credibility thing.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jun 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> After a question from bimble I gave it a bit of thought and I have always very much liked Depp, mainly from the fact that whenever in a city he gets into costume as Jack Sparrow and visits the local Cancer hospitals and spends the afternoon there chatting to the patients in character, children and adults.
> Its an incredibly sweet thing to do and he doesn't have to do it.



Not wishing to go down a side road, but Jimmy Savile did that sort of thing, you know.

I'm neutral on the whole thing btw, my only observation from the little attention I paid is that they both seem highly dysfunctional and probably both carry some 'fault'.  I've witnessed those sort of relationships close-up IRL.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

I had a look for the audio tape of him coked and alcohol fuelled up but couldn't find it. It would have been scary for Heard being in the same room since it sounded like he could easily be violent: also a credibility thing.


----------



## Cid (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> I agree that the juror system is fallible but I'd still rather have it than not.
> Someone more on it than me will be able to put me straight on this, but isn't the decision on jurors quite a big deal in terms of US litigation?  More so than here?



Yes, it's called voir dire and is essentially the process of cross-examining potential jurors. It's supposed to select an impartial jury, but often seems to pan out as a phase of the trial where a good lawyer can dismiss jurors that might impact their case... So if you have something like a case of sexual assault (just because stats are widely discussed) you can exclude people who might have been victims of that. Which is 1 in 6 women in the US. And obviously the 'bias' there will affect far more. Also rather obvious privacy issues at play.

I don't really know enough about it, but I've never seen anything that convinces me it's a remotely good idea. I think juries in the US have always been tricky because states and regions etc can be heavily divided along political/racial lines. So voir dire could be seen as an attempt to get around that which, when viewed through more modern sociology etc, has probably created its own problems.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> A man who seemingly was beloved by his staff and friends and colleagues



This is the problem with Depp fanboys, they conflate Depp's legal team's curated selection of witnesses and viral marketing campaigns with reality. Notice, nobody is claiming Amber Heard is all sweetness and light, the myopic sycophancy is all team Depp.


----------



## Athos (Jun 3, 2022)

Graymalkin said:


> I have to wonder if it negates to some extent the judge vs jury question with this case.  Surely a judge would have to, purely on procedural grounds, treat her as an unreliable witness as well.


Yes, judges have to take witnesses' credibility into account, any the fact that she lied in the English court under oath wouldn't do her any favours in that regard.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> This is the problem with Depp fanboys, they conflate Depp's legal team's curated selection of witnesses and viral marketing campaigns with reality. Notice, nobody is claiming Amber Heard is all sweetness and light, the myopic sycophancy is all team Depp.


I agree, but I've seen some people on fb/twitter coming close to it, saying that if you found depp more believable in this trial you're a misogynist? Which I'm not convinced you can make that sort of conclusion based on someone's view of a celebrity trial tbh


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

Yes I saw someone complain that taking Depp's side on some threads gets you called an incel. I'd imagine taking Heard's side on other threads would get you called worse with more people piling in though.


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 3, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I'm neutral on the whole thing btw, my only observation from the little attention I paid is that they both seem highly dysfunctional and probably both carry some 'fault'.  I've witnessed those sort of relationships close-up IRL.



Yep, Depp has testified that he came from a very troubled home - he's also been a multimillionaire marinating in celebrity culture for several decades, I think someone like that might have difficulties forming healthy relationships with women his own age, let alone somebody 22 years younger.


----------



## marshall (Jun 3, 2022)

If AH can’t pay the £8.5m, can she still appeal? Or does she have to pay the fine in full before she can begin the process of appealing?


----------



## Cid (Jun 3, 2022)

marshall said:


> If AH can’t pay the £8.5m, can she still appeal? Or does she have to pay the fine in full before she can begin the process of appealing?



No, being unable to pay something won't affect rights to appeal.

I've got myself confused over the actual process of payment, i.e whether an award of damages is immediately 'payable' (in reality it would probably be a negotiated set of payments over a period of time, depending on ability to pay) or whether it waits until after appeals process*... But certainly being unable to pay wouldn't affect your right to appeal; rights to appeal are integral to rule of law type stuff.

*I _think_ it's probably placed on hold until appeals process is complete, or you'd get weird payment-repayment shenanigans going on.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Cid said:


> No, being unable to pay something won't affect rights to appeal.
> 
> I've got myself confused over the actual process of payment, i.e whether an award of damages is immediately 'payable' (in reality it would probably be a negotiated set of payments over a period of time, depending on ability to pay) or whether it waits until after appeals process*... But certainly being unable to pay wouldn't affect your right to appeal; rights to appeal are integral to rule of law type stuff.
> 
> *I _think_ it's probably placed on hold until appeals process is complete, or you'd get weird payment-repayment shenanigans going on.


In some courts in the UK, awards start to accrue interest if they're not paid within a given amount of time. The appeal process doesn't stop the clock on that. That's just in the UK though and I'm not sure if it applies across all jurisdictions. I'm definitely not sure about the US generally or within any particular states.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 3, 2022)

If anyone has done women a disservice and made it harder for them to be believed its Amber Bleedin Heard.

Falsely accused a man, co opted the metoo etc movements and rode on the coat tails of victims of DV for her own ends, lost the court case cos its so spurious.
She's the disgrace imho


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> If anyone has done women a disservice and made it harder for them to be believed its Amber Bleedin Heard.
> 
> Falsely accused a man, co opted the metoo etc movements and rode on the coat tails of victims of DV for her own ends, lost the court case cos its so spurious.
> She's the disgrace imho


You could say that about a lot of DV victims tbh. It doesn't mean the abuse didn't happen.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> You could say that about a lot of DV victims tbh. It doesn't mean the abuse didn't happen.


But in this instance I'm certain it didn't.

But in the vast vast VAST majority of cases it did.

Even Margaret Atwood said we must be wary of just flatly going for the "believe women" and there always must be a process.
Predictably twitter went doolally and called her a bad feminist


----------



## David Clapson (Jun 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> If anyone has done women a disservice and made it harder for them to be believed its Amber Bleedin Heard.
> 
> Falsely accused a man, co opted the metoo etc movements and rode on the coat tails of victims of DV for her own ends, lost the court case cos its so spurious.
> She's the disgrace imho


Fuck me, I didn't miss much by not reading this thread, did I? Is there more of this incel shite?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

Like loads of people who are not nice people or in a really bad place wrt addiction etc end up in DV situations (or similar to what Depp found himself in if he's telling the truth for that matter).


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

What did you think about the UK case D'wards ?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> But in this instance I'm certain it didn't.
> 
> But in the vast vast VAST majority of cases it did.


But how would you know? Someone could easily say that for just about anyone. In fact that 'someone' is often a police officer. There's a huge problem with people not being believed because they don't 'act like a victim'


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> But how would you know? Someone could easily say that for just about anyone.


No-one can say for sure, but her credibility was adversely affected by her proven lying.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> No-one can say for sure, but her credibility was adversely affected by her proven lying.


Was it just the charity divorce payment or was there other stuff too? I agree that looks dodgy.


----------



## David Clapson (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> No-one can say for sure, but her credibility was adversely affected by her proven lying.


And you choose to ignore Depp's proven lying. Why's that?


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Was it just the charity divorce payment or was there other stuff too? I agree that looks dodgy.


It was the charity donation, yes, but also the reason she gave for one of the times she struck him (allegedly to protect her sister) was that she thought of Kate Moss and the stairs. Suggesting that he’d pushed Kate Moss down the stairs. So Kate Moss gave evidence that he never had.

She also admitted it, there’s a recording of her saying that she was only hitting him, not punching him. Other recordings include her admitting starting physical fights with him. And there’s one of her taunting him when he complains of her hitting him, by daring him to tell that to a judge and jury because no one will believe him.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> And you choose to ignore Depp's proven lying. Why's that?


When was he proven to have lied?


----------



## Petcha (Jun 3, 2022)

It's probably already been posted above but I cant be arsed reading. The Mail has an 'exclusive' with a juror who said the kicker was the fact she lied about giving her previous winnings in the UK to charity. That didn't play well. Understandably.









						'Everything she was saying came off like bulls***': Heard-Depp 'juror'
					

A man claiming to be a juror in the Virginia defamation trial of Amber Heard and Johnny Depp has lifted the lid on the inner machinations of the seven-person jury.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## David Clapson (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> When was he proven to have lied?


You're such an expert on Heard's lies, but you don't know about Depp's lies. This case has really flushed out the misogynists.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

That bit was brazen.


David Clapson said:


> You're such an expert on Heard's lies, but you don't know about Depp's lies. This case has really flushed out the misogynists.


I'm trying to think of Depp's lies, too. Which ones?


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> You're such an expert on Heard's lies, but you don't know about Depp's lies. This case has really flushed out the misogynists.


I just listened to the evidence. So which evidence are you referring to that proved Depp a liar?


----------



## David Clapson (Jun 3, 2022)

You're not worth engaging with. You disgust me.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

I did look for that recording of him on coke and alcohol sounding really violent but can't find it. Not sure whether I've exaggerated it in my own mind but I found it a bit of a shock. 

Heard isn't the only one that doesn't come out of this well for me, though.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> You're not worth engaging with. You disgust me.



U ok hun?


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> You're not worth engaging with. You disgust me.


I searched "depp lies heard case" and nothing came up on the first page. I don't remember him being accused of lying the accusations were more of abuse weren't they?


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I did look for that recording of him on coke and alcohol sounding really violent but can't find it. Not sure whether I've exaggerated it in my own mind but I found it a bit of a shock.
> 
> Heard isn't the only one that doesn't come out of this well for me, though.


I agree.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

Petcha said:


> It's probably already been posted above but I cant be arsed reading. The Mail has an 'exclusive' with a juror who said the kicker was the fact she lied about giving her previous winnings in the UK to charity. That didn't play well. Understandably.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does it say anything about whether they accessed social media or read emails or went on the web with their phones?


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Does it say anything about whether they accessed social media or read emails or went on the web with their phones?


I’ve just rewatched the part where the Judge tells them that they mustn’t do that, but of course they may have done anyway. Hopefully they took it seriously though.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

Seems like whatever you want to believe you could believe 2 or more versions of what happened in this trial  I am so confused tbh.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

Depp's side is what we've mainly heard, but I thought that article you linked to above put Heard's side of the story very well.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> When was he proven to have lied?


In the London trial, he denied having committed a string of assaults that the judge found were proven to have happened.

Of course, there's a bit of cart-and-horse to the question in the first place.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

What’s the nearest thing anyone has come across to a neutral run down of everything raised? Ideally described as such by both “sides” on here. Does such a thing exist? 

Wherever exactly the division of shitty actions and culpability lays, the absolute vilification of Heard as the “wrong” kind of victim against a popular man has been horrific. Much of it wouldn’t have been justified even if he was entirely blameless, which it really does not sound like he was.

I hope she’s got some good, genuine  support around her because if she is already this emotionally fragile, I’d be quite concerned about where her mental health will take her over the next few months.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

Depending on who you read, the whole thing comes across as a really tragic, multimillionaire “AITA” thread, ie so told from a single perspective.


----------



## IC3D (Jun 3, 2022)

The hand wringing would be naught if AH was a man. 
She has literally played the victim using her sex as cover. Shaming JD to not take action. 
It is amusing to see people defending her though.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Raheem said:


> In the London trial, he denied having committed a string of assaults that the judge found were proven to have happened.
> 
> Of course, there's a bit of cart-and-horse to the question in the first place.


Yes he did find that. I understand (haven’t read the Judgment personally) that one of his reasons for that belief was the charity donation that AH told him about


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

I’m just trying to think of one example of a man being treated by the media in quite the same way. I’m open to suggestions if I’m missing them.

But even though famous men actually  proven to  rapists and murderers get huge media focus and character analysis, I’m struggling to think of one with such a mass “they deserved it”, “they’re crazy/unstable” (with that being used to discredit rather than justify), “this one man justifies my hatred of ALL men the fucking whores” etc.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

That’s one of the reasons I don’t think Depp   comes out of this well. His reason for suing her was selfish and played right into the hands of the far right/appalling people that inhabit the spaces where women try and assert their rights not to be abused and killed.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> That’s one of the reasons I don’t think Depp   comes out of this well. His reason for suing her was selfish and played right into the hands of the far right/appalling people that inhabit the spaces where women try and assert their rights not to be abused and killed.



I _thought_ he'd sued her for saying he had beaten her up, which is understandable in his field where reputation means so much, plus it's a really hurtful thing to be unjustly accused of, especially if they have been abusive toward you.
I may be missing elements or just be flat wrong tbf.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 3, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> And you choose to ignore Depp's proven lying. Why's that?


I can't find anything about Depp's proven lying.  Do you have a link?


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> I _thought_ he'd sued her for saying he had beaten her up, which is understandable in his field where reputation means so much, plus it's a really hurtful thing to be unjustly accused of, especially if they have been abusive toward you.
> I may be missing elements or just be flat wrong tbf.


This is one of the things that’s confused me, and tbf I haven’t been following it too closely. But I thought it was because she had said “me too” applied to her, without naming him. Me too started as acknowledging sexual assault, coercion and intimidation but I have no issue with it also encompassing DV. But DV isn’t just “beating people up”, there’s a whole host of abuse that happens without leaving a physical mark. So I’ve got a bit confused at how the he’s allegedly innocent of it all because it couldn’t be proved he physically beat her, but there’s recorded evidence of intimidation


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> I _thought_ he'd sued her for saying he had beaten her up, which is understandable in his field where reputation means so much, plus it's a really hurtful thing to be unjustly accused of, especially if they have been abusive toward you.
> I may be missing elements or just be flat wrong tbf.


Yes, that’s my understanding too. That he sued her for writing and re-publishing an op ed about physical and sexual abuse, that anyone reading it would draw the conclusion it was about him. Yes I believe that victims of DV should have a voice and men victims apparently under-report. But I think there are other ways of illustrating your point/asserting your rights when you are a celebrity and very rich. For example all of those lawyers fees would have been better of in DV charities and he could have become an activist for DV victims rights.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> This is one of the things that’s confused me, and tbf I haven’t been following it too closely. But I thought it was because she had said “me too” applied to her, without naming him. Me too started as acknowledging sexual assault, coercion and intimidation but I have no issue with it also encompassing DV. But DV isn’t just “beating people up”, there’s a whole host of abuse that happens without leaving a physical mark. So I’ve got a bit confused at how the he’s allegedly innocent of it all because it couldn’t be proved he physically beat her, but there’s recorded evidence of intimidation


Her op ed wasn’t about all abuse (as I understand it) I think it was about physical and sexual abuse. If it had been all abuse he never would have been successful imo.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> This is one of the things that’s confused me, and tbf I haven’t been following it too closely. But I thought it was because she had said “me too” applied to her, without naming him. Me too started as acknowledging sexual assault, coercion and intimidation but I have no issue with it also encompassing DV. But DV isn’t just “beating people up”, there’s a whole host of abuse that happens without leaving a physical mark. So I’ve got a bit confused at how the he’s allegedly innocent of it all because it couldn’t be proved he physically beat her, but there’s recorded evidence of intimidation





cesare said:


> Yes, that’s my understanding too. That he sued her for writing and re-publishing an op ed about physical and sexual abuse, that anyone reading it would draw the conclusion it was about him. Yes I believe that victims of DV should have a voice and men victims apparently under-report. But I think there are other ways of illustrating your point/asserting your rights when you are a celebrity and very rich. For example all of those lawyers fees would have been better of in DV charities and he could have become an activist for DV victims rights.



I read somewhere that he had been dropped from the Pirates of The Caribbean franchise based on this.  Not sure if that was based on an initial accusation not naming him, or after she had elaborated, at which point the accusation was specifically about physical abuse.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Her op ed wasn’t about all abuse (as I understand it) I think it was about physical and sexual abuse. If it had been all abuse he never would have been successful imo.


Thanks, that does make the verdict make a bit more sense. 

That does come across a bit “it’s fine because I didn’t do this absolutely awful abuse, I only abused her a little bit/in an OK way” 🤮


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> This is one of the things that’s confused me, and tbf I haven’t been following it too closely. But I thought it was because she had said “me too” applied to her, without naming him. Me too started as acknowledging sexual assault, coercion and intimidation but I have no issue with it also encompassing DV. But DV isn’t just “beating people up”, there’s a whole host of abuse that happens without leaving a physical mark. So I’ve got a bit confused at how the he’s allegedly innocent of it all because it couldn’t be proved he physically beat her, but there’s recorded evidence of intimidation



As the New Yorker puts it:

_“One time, ladies and gentlemen, one time—if he abused her one time, Amber wins,” Rottenborn told the jury. “Actually, if he fails to prove that he never abused her one time, Amber wins.”

And yet she lost. She lost despite vile text messages from Depp, spinning out violent fantasies of rape and murder. She lost despite photograph after photograph of cuts, bruises, and swelling. She lost despite audio recordings of Depp verbally abusing her. She lost despite her sister, multiple friends, a makeup artist, and a couples counsellor attesting to seeing her injuries. And she lost despite facing the jury and recounting graphic, painful episodes of alleged physical and sexual violence._









						The Johnny Depp–Amber Heard Verdict Is Chilling
					

Many victims of domestic violence who watched this trial will likely conclude that, if they share their experiences, they will be disbelieved, shamed, and ostracized.




					www.newyorker.com
				




The writer also notes that her legal team _could not present evidence in Heard’s favor that the judge, Penney Azcarate, ruled out as hearsay, including testimony from seven medical professionals that Heard had reported contemporaneous episodes of abuse to them and a series of text messages from one of Depp’s employees, Stephen Deuters, in which Deuters appears to acknowledge that Depp physically harmed Heard on an airplane. (“When I told him he kicked you, he cried.”)_


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Her op ed wasn’t about all abuse (as I understand it) I think it was about physical and sexual abuse. If it had been all abuse he never would have been successful imo.



When you have a relationship like that with toxic shit flying in both directions, he might still have cause to react legally to her playing the victim where it has only affected his career.
But that's all speculative.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Thanks, that does make the verdict make a bit more sense.
> 
> That does come across a bit “it’s fine because I didn’t do this absolutely awful abuse, I only abused her a little bit/in an OK way” 🤮


It was properly toxic both ways, and the jurors heard her admitting that she physically abused him. I dislike that she thinks it’s ok to hit people.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> _“One time, ladies and gentlemen, one time—if he abused her one time, Amber wins,” Rottenborn told the jury. “Actually, if he fails to prove that he never abused her one time, Amber wins.”_



That's very interesting.  Wasn't aware that the judge had put it that way.
Just thinking back to my previous relationships, though...  

Would I ever have been in a position to prove that I had never abused any of them?
Would they ever have been in a position to prove they had never abused me?

Seems like a big ask.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> When you have a relationship like that with toxic shit flying in both directions, he might still have cause to react legally to her playing the victim where it has only affected his career.
> But that's all speculative.


Yes, I definitely get that argument. I just don’t think that he comes out of this looking like it was all one way. I heard/saw some nasty stuff he said in his text messages about her for example.


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 3, 2022)

Reading the op-ed again, it's even harder to see how the Depp team won - the third statement of the three statements deemed defamatory, in particular, seems truer now more than ever.

_(3) “I had the rare vantage point of seeing, in real time, how institutions protect men accused of abuse.” _



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ive-seen-how-institutions-protect-men-accused-of-abuse-heres-what-we-can-do/2018/12/18/71fd876a-02ed-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36_story.html


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

They both come out of this looking awful. And I wouldn't be surprised if there were further allegations about one or both of them later on


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Yes, I definitely get that argument. I just don’t think that he comes out of this looking like it was all one way. I heard/saw some nasty stuff he said in his text messages about her for example.



Agree.  And drink and drugs can bring very bad things out of people.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> That's very interesting.  Wasn't aware that the judge had put it that way.


Don't think he did, her counsel did.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> That's very interesting.  Wasn't aware that the judge had put it that way.
> Just thinking back to my previous relationships, though...
> 
> Would I ever have been in a position to prove that I had never abused any of them?
> ...


Rottenborn was one of AH’s legal team. That statement was from the closing submissions for AH. Depp’s legal team said along the lines of, you either believe all of what she’s been telling you, or you believe none of it.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Don't think he did, her counsel did.





cesare said:


> Rottenborn was one of AH’s legal team. That statement was from the closing submissions for AH. Depp’s legal team said along the lines of, you either believe all of what she’s been telling you, or you believe none of it.



Gotcha - thanks for clarifying.

I would have expected that to be challenged.  Well, maybe not tactically wise, I dunno.


----------



## Looby (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Yes, I definitely get that argument. I just don’t think that he comes out of this looking like it was all one way. I heard/saw some nasty stuff he said in his text messages about her for example.


But the narrative is very much that he has come out of this the innocent and injured party and she’s the evil, lying witch.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> They both come out of this looking awful. And I wouldn't be surprised if there were further allegations about one or both of them later on


There have already been allegations about AH, she’s been arrested for it before but the charges were dropped. I agree we’ll see more about one or both in the future though.

I think that more’s going to come out soon-ish though - she’s already signalled that she’s going to appeal.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Looby said:


> But the narrative is very much that he has come out of this the innocent and injured party and she’s the evil, lying witch.


Yes and that hasn’t helped DV victims generally and another reason why I’m not particularly pro-Depp.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Looby said:


> But the narrative is very much that he has come out of this the innocent and injured party and she’s the evil, lying witch.



Yes, the internet has been a horrific shitshow.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Yes, the internet has been a horrific shitshow.


It's been an absolute shitshow. Televising trials seems like a very very bad idea


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> It was properly toxic both ways, and the jurors heard her admitting that she physically abused him. I dislike that she thinks it’s ok to hit people.


And this is why I would be interested to see as neutral a run down as possible of everything that was shared, just description no opinion.

It is undoubtably as complex as it is horrible. I’ve found it impossible to get an idea of context from the bits I’ve read, and tbf it’s probably not even possible with a full trial transcript in front of you. Truths are often subjective in some way and two retellings of the same event can sound like two completely different events. Observers  read their own truths into what’s reported which distorts things even further.  Ultimately there will have been power dynamics at play which will influence how meaningful each specific action was, and none of us will ever really know about those.

But yeah, everything I’ve come across suggested there was mutual abuse even if the precise power dynamics have been harder to pinpoint. I’m still clueless as to how the sharing of mutual abuse has led to the “poor him, evil her” stance - apart from the enduring, background static of misogyny of course.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Yes, the internet has been a horrific shitshow.


It’s been awful, truly shameful,  and if you prefer the evidence of Dr Curry AH has two concurrent personality disorders to contend with. Even if you prefer the evidence of Dr Hughes, AH has one disorder to deal with. The Internet has certainly brought out some of the very worst of behaviour, hasn’t it.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> It's been an absolute shitshow. Televising trials seems like a very very bad idea


Absolutely, and this was because Depp wanted it apparently.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> I’m still clueless as to how the sharing of mutual abuse has led to the “poor him, evil her” stance - apart from the enduring, background static of misogyny of course.



Ultimately, I think this came down to her being shown to have lied.  She undermined her own credibility, which gave reason to regard everything she had said as suspect.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Absolutely, and this was because Depp wanted it apparently.


If this was the case, he absolutely knew what way social media would swing it, didn’t he?


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Ultimately, I think this came down to her being shown to have lied.  She undermined her own credibility, which gave reason to regard everything she had said as suspect.


That’s _part_ of it.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> That’s _part_ of it.



Juries are typically punishing towards this kind of behaviour.
I don't know what the other part is, but it is plenty by itself.


----------



## Looby (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> And this is why I would be interested to see as neutral a run down as possible of everything that was shared, just description no opinion.
> 
> It is undoubtably as complex as it is horrible. I’ve found it impossible to get an idea of context from the bits I’ve read, and tbf it’s probably not even possible with a full trial transcript in front of you. Truths are often subjective in some way and two retellings of the same event can sound like two completely different events. Observers  read their own truths into what’s reported which distorts things even further.  Ultimately there will have been power dynamics at play which will influence how meaningful each specific action was, and none of us will ever really know about those.
> 
> But yeah, everything I’ve come across suggested there was mutual abuse even if the precise power dynamics have been harder to pinpoint. I’m still clueless as to how the sharing of mutual abuse has led to the “poor him, evil her” stance - apart from the enduring, background static of misogyny of course.


The New Yorker article posted above talks about the many ways Heard was fucked over in this case. Disallowed evidence, where the case was heard, the jury. 

I think the full transcript is the only chance you’d have of an opinion free account but if there is evidence the jury didn’t hear then that isn’t going to give you the full story either.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> If this was the case, he absolutely knew what way social media would swing it, didn’t he?


Yes.  He must have known the evidence and he must have known (or at least have a pretty good idea) how she would come across in her testimony. Not a good look, Mr Depp.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Looby said:


> The New Yorker article posted above talks about the many ways Heard was fucked over in this case.



Might see if I can get around that paywall...


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Might see if I can get around that paywall...


The Washington Post published the op ed in the first place so I don't really think I'm going to get a neutral view from the New Yorker. Not enough to pay for it anyway


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> The Washington Post published the op ed in the first place so I don't really think I'm going to get a neutral view from the New Yorker. Not enough to pay for it anyway



This had occurred to me too.

When I said "getting around paywall", this did not involve any attention of paying.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

BONUS: Johnny Depp v. Amber Heard. https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/9EE2G/pdst.fm/e/rss.art19.com/episodes/12bec788-b503-4ef0-a3e3-d0f564291faf.mp3?rss_browser=BAhJIhVQb2RjYXN0IFJlcHVibGljBjoGRVQ=--c4601358e78e5fc61c47a38ee8654ebfc6e2ed07 . -- Sent from Podcast Republic.

I thought this episode on the case from Real Crime Profile was pretty good. It's from 26th May


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> The Washington Post published the op ed in the first place so I don't really think I'm going to get a neutral view from the New Yorker. Not enough to pay for it anyway



Paywall broken version of New Yorker article here, I don't think the publication has any ties to the Washington Post





__





						archive.ph
					





					archive.ph


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Yes, that’s my understanding too. That he sued her for writing and re-publishing an op ed about physical and sexual abuse, that anyone reading it would draw the conclusion it was about him. Yes I believe that victims of DV should have a voice and men victims apparently under-report. But I think there are other ways of illustrating your point/asserting your rights when you are a celebrity and very rich. For example all of those lawyers fees would have been better of in DV charities and he could have become an activist for DV victims rights.


Would a DV charity have wanted to accept money from Depp under such circumstances though?


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> Paywall broken version of New Yorker article here, I don't think the publication has any ties to the Washington Post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's helpful thanks. 

Don't they share the same website? I might be mistaken and if so I apologise.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Would a DV charity have wanted to accept money from Depp under such circumstances though?



As a further aside to the point - I remember reading about Depp having financial difficulties not too long ago.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

Could just imagine some misogynist going 'Oh but Women's Aid accepted money from wife-beater Johnny Depp so x statistic they put out has no value' or something


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Would a DV charity have wanted to accept money under such circumstances though?


I don't know.  Taking a principled stand on not taking money from one abused party in a 2-way toxic relationship? If I were a DV charity I'd accept and direct the funds where they were most needed as long as there weren't any conditions attached. But yes, maybe they wouldn't. There are men's refuges too, perhaps they'd be more likely to accept.


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> That's helpful thanks.
> 
> Don't they share the same website? I might be mistaken and if so I apologise.



Nope, no ties at all as far as I can tell, though it's a reasonable suspicion to have, with the state of US media ownership - the New Yorker is published by Conde Nast, its parent company, Advance Media, owns a couple of dozen regional papers but the Post's not one of them.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> Nope, no ties at all as far as I can tell, though it's a reasonable suspicion to have, with the state of US media ownership - the New Yorker is published by Conde Nast, its parent company, Advance Media, owns a couple of dozen regional papers but the Post's not one of them.


Ah, ok thanks for the clarification. My Google search obviously failed me. Apologies.


----------



## marshall (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Juries are typically punishing towards this kind of behaviour.
> I don't know what the other part is, but it is plenty by itself.


Surely, it's absolutely key.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> That’s _part_ of it.


Yes, it's impossible (for me) to look at how a court case plays out without looking at the context of patriarchy and capitalism


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jun 3, 2022)

JD doesn't look great going from this to hitting the road with Jeff Beck, unless he really does have a very clear conscience.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 3, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> JD doesn't look great going from this to hitting the road with Jeff Beck, unless he really does have a very clear conscience.


I don't think it's compatible at all with having a _very_ clear conscience.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> JD doesn't look great going from this to hitting the road with Jeff Beck, unless he really does have a very clear conscience.


Unfortunately from how things have seemed so far, many won’t care


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Raheem said:


> I don't think it's compatible at all with having a _very_ clear conscience.


Neither of them can have a clear conscience.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Neither of them can have a clear conscience.



I'm not convinced everyone even has a conscience.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Agree.  And drink and drugs can bring very bad things out of people.



Also, long term, it leads to brain damage and a deterioration in cognition, inhibition, and mental health. The effect is cumulative, it's not only about a lack of impulse control in the moment.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

I'm just reading a little more on this now, because I've been aware of just talking about the fragments of what I (think I) know.

It's messier and worse than I would have ever guessed - different accounts looking like events from completely different universes, filtered through a fractured prism, then re-filtered back and forth through legacy media, social media and the lenses of the culture wars.  

Everyone talking and talking, always completely past each other.

Doesn't seem like anything any good can come from, however you slice it.


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## Cloo (Jun 3, 2022)

I am wondering what is supposed to motivate women to go out and lie about abuse. I mean, where are all these women who have allegedly done so well financially, career-wise and personally by alleging abuse? I suppose they just took the public destruction of their character and the money (from somewhere or other) and waltzed off into the sunset?


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## D'wards (Jun 3, 2022)

Cloo said:


> I am wondering what is supposed to motivate women to go out and lie about abuse. I mean, where are all these women who have allegedly done so well financially, career-wise and personally by alleging abuse? I suppose they just took the public destruction of their character and the money (from somewhere or other) and waltzed off into the sunset?


Not sure. Might be worth looking into the Craig Charles case and see what the motivation was there. Or the Hamiltons. That was a bizarre one


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Not sure. Might be worth looking into the Craig Charles case and see what the motivation was there


Was that a definite “he was innocent” case or a “not proven” one?


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## D'wards (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Was that a definite “he was innocent” case or a “not proven” one?


Innocent. I recall it at the time the woman later admitted she made it up. Got paid £50k by the News of the World.

Can't find any details of it now though really


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## Thora (Jun 3, 2022)

What relevance does a false rape allegation 30 years ago have to anything?


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## Rob Ray (Jun 3, 2022)

One of those telling things, I think, that when asked for real examples we're transported back to 1995 and a tabloid sleaze payout. Almost as though, like many of the the tabloids' moral panics, what we're actually talking about is a small minority of cases which get the full magnifying glass and cited prominently over and over as justification for the idea that a thing happens often. Also in this series: That time Boris Becker accused a woman of stealing his sperm, Islamic terrorism, muslim paedos ...


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> One of those telling things, I think, that when asked for real examples we're transported back to 1995 and a tabloid sleaze payout. Almost as though, like many of the the tabloids' moral panics, what we're actually talking about is a small minority of cases which get the full magnifying glass and cited prominently over and over as justification for the idea that a thing happens often. Also in this series: That time Boris Becker accused a woman of stealing his sperm.



They are very much a small minority of cases.
Maybe we should stop having trials.

Just straight to sentencing.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 3, 2022)

The outcomes of individual cases wouldn't matter so much if we were collectively a bit better at gauging the difference between a thing, or cluster of things, happening and the actual broad _likelihood _of it happening. How many cases of women pretending they've been abused to get back at a person are there? Not many, for a number of reasons. But every single one gets added to a stereotype through repetition and their good fit to cultural tropes. Which then acts to repress the ability of women who have been abused to be heard (this, in turn, is our fault for building the sandcastle, rather than theirs for the individual act).


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

Sadly I know someone who was raped by a high profile celebrity when she was a young woman. It’s not my story to tell but hearing her tell it, and about the repercussions, I have no doubt that it happened. Legal action was squashed and he got away with it. 

Whilst any false allegations are awful, I would also bet there’s many more stories out there like hers. 

Vague as that is, I’d appreciate people not quoting that first paragraph.


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> <>
> 
> Whilst any false allegations are awful, I would also bet there’s many more stories out there like hers.
> 
> Vague as that is, I’d appreciate people not quoting that first paragraph.



Yes, vastly more.  Most rapes never go to trial (or even get reported) and even then the conviction rate is dismal, as we all know, so the difference will be massive.

Not sure how it is relevant to this case, though.


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## D'wards (Jun 3, 2022)

I _think _sportsmen get away with it all the time. 
They are hugely rich and have agents and people who can persuade the victims to not pursue it for more money than they earn in 4 years.
This is worldwide. 
A certain pugalist certainly employed this tactic. 
Kobe Bryant too, but that came out but no one seemed bothered.


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Yes, vastly more.  Most rapes never go to trial and even then the conviction rate...
> 
> Not sure how it is relevant to this case, though.


It’s as relevant as bringing up false accusation cases. Indeed a counterpoint. 

Actually probably more relevant given the previously noted societal context the Depp-Heard case has been tried, filmed and analysed in.


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## D'wards (Jun 3, 2022)

Thora said:


> What relevance does a false rape allegation 30 years ago have to anything?


Cos Cloo asked what would motivate a false allegation and this was a case i could recall which was a proven false allegation


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Yes, vastly more.  Most rapes never go to trial (or even get reported) and even then the conviction rate is dismal, as we all know, so the difference will be massive.
> 
> Not sure how it is relevant to this case, though.


I'm prepared to be jumped on here, but I'd say that most rapes are a form of DV. Stranger-rapes aren't as common as believed.


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> It’s as relevant as bringing up false accusation cases. Indeed a counterpoint.
> 
> Actually probably more relevant given the previously noted societal context the Depp-Heard case has been tried, filmed and analysed in.



Bringing up a false accusation was only done in response to the bizarre implication that false allocations don't happen.

Bringing up a valid accusation isn't a counterpoint to that in any sense at all.


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## spring-peeper (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> I'm prepared to be jumped on here, but I'd say that most rapes are a form of DV. Stranger-rapes aren't as common as believed.




I seem to remember the dv rapes made up 80-85%....


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> I'm prepared to be jumped on here, but I'd say that most rapes are a form of DV. Stranger-rapes aren't as common as believed.



I'll jump on the jumpers if that happens - this is totally the case.

Not too sure how this connects with the points being made, though.


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

False accusations are rare but they do happen tho, and it isn't uncommon for a (usually, but not always male) abuser to accuse the victim of abuse. I don't think anyone in the position Depp said he was in was done any favours by this shitshow. Nobody needed this spectacle apart from maybe his lawyers and an army of 4chan trolls


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> False accusations are rare but they do happen tho, and it isn't uncommon for a (usually, but not always male) abuser to accuse the victim of abuse. I don't think anyone in the position Depp said he was in was done any favours by this shitshow. Nobody needed this spectacle apart from maybe his lawyers and an army of 4chan trolls



And sometimes you get these toxic relationships with abuse going in both directions.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> I'll jump on the jumpers if that happens - this is totally the case.
> 
> Not too sure how this connects with the points being made, though.


I thought we were headed down the rape route, not necessarily by you, I was just making that observation at an early stage. Sorry if I jumped the gun!


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## 8ball (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> I thought we were headed down the rape route, not necessarily by you, I was just making that observation at an early stage. Sorry if I jumped the gun!



Np - just confused me a little - so many points flying about.


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## David Clapson (Jun 3, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I can't find anything about Depp's proven lying.  Do you have a link?


Even the jury agreed he lied, and awarded damages to Heard! That lie was publicly voiced by his lawyer, but even if he didn't invent it he must have at least agreed that the lawyer should say it:   "Ms Heard did succeed on one count: the claim that Mr Depp's lawyer gave a statement to the Daily Mail in 2020 calling her abuse allegations a hoax."Depp-Heard trial: Three questions answered after the verdict

His story about Heard cutting off the end of his finger by throwing a bottle is just absurd. It was debunked by expert witnesses. It's a measure of his shameless, arrogant, cocksure duplicity that he even made such a risible claim in court. He even admitted that he'd lied about this event when it happened!  Johnny Depp details severed finger incident in court: ‘Nothing made sense’ How was Johnny Depp’s finger severed in Australia fight with Amber Heard?

The trial was a daft way to deliver justice. The British legal system wouldn't have allowed it. If you give a team of top lawyers 5 weeks to find untruths in accounts of an acrimonious divorce, they're bound to find dozens. Everybody lies. Actors lie more than most. 

The verdict was a sports score (who lied the most) combined with a popularity contest. An American jury of 5 men and 2 women have probably enjoyed Pirates of the Caribbean but never seen Heard in a leading role. And, it being America, the baseline for public opinion is that women marry for money, and a smalltime actress like Heard who attaches herself to a much older megastar is only doing it for her career. 

Then you add in the misogynist drumbeat of divorced women always reaming the man's bank account, plus the culture wars in which #MeToo and the Washington Post are woke, and therefore whiny entitled bullshit. So how can Heard win? How can any battered wife be believed? 

It's to be expected that Americans on social media will relish putting the boot into the woman. The Brits who unthinkingly agree are a fucking disgrace. They should all have Woman Hater tattooed on their face.


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## Cloo (Jun 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Not sure. Might be worth looking into the Craig Charles case and see what the motivation was there. Or the Hamiltons. That was a bizarre one


With things like the Hamiltons case, you do get the odd fantasist, but these are massive outliers. I think what I find so frustrating is people acting as though the number of false accusations (appalling as they are for those wrongly accused) is in any way comparable to the amount of abuse that actually happens is and never even brought anywhere near trial - either victims knowing they won't be believed, victims told by their family 'not to make a fuss', victims going to the authorities only to be told they should forget it etc. I would be surprised if there were not many more victims, mostly women, whose 'lives have been ruined' by going to trial with an absolutely true accusation that wasn't believed than there are men whose 'lives have been ruined' by a false accusation.

I do think society has hard-wired into it a very powerful historical narrative about women being untrustworthy and it's very difficult to get over. An idea that woman are physically weak and can't have it out in a physical fight like a man so they fight dirty and use lies and manipulation. Hence people apparently believing easily Heard must have just bribed people to side with her, she must have faked injuries, she must have pretended to cry. No one seems to have accused Depp of faking anything. And I don't see any evidence he has. But his defence team have used that narrative about women for all its worth, using small slips to catch her out and made her seen dishonest. And sadly it's worth a lot.


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

8ball said:


> Bringing up a false accusation was only done in response to the bizarre implication that false allocations don't happen.
> 
> Bringing up a valid accusation isn't a counterpoint to that in any sense at all.


That’s not how I took Cloo ‘s post. I thought it was more critiquing both the ideas of false allegations being a common occurrence (a frequent claim), and being used as a way of furthering a career.

And given the crappy way women who try and secure convictions for rape and DV are treated by the police, the courts and if it’s high profile enough, the media; every case is both irrelevant and highly relevant to one another. These cases aren’t brought forward in a vacuum and to go back to my first point, whatever the precise details of this case Heard was doubly, unofficially tried within this context.
.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

David Clapson 
The cause of the amputation of his finger was agreed by a hand surgeon. And in any event, why would a guitarist amputate his own finger - that doesn't make sense.

It's true that the jury found against  Adam Waldman as Depp's agent. They literally believed the four police officers called to the scene  that found AH wasn't injured as alleged and the premises not roughed up, so not accepting what AW alleged happened later. Fair enough.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> That’s not how I took Cloo ‘s post. I thought it was more critiquing both the ideas of false allegations being a common occurrence (a frequent claim), and being used as a way of furthering a career.
> 
> And given the crappy way women who try and secure convictions for rape and DV are treated by the police, the courts and if it’s high profile enough, the media; every case is both irrelevant and highly relevant to one another. These cases aren’t brought forward in a vacuum and to go back to my first point, whatever the precise details of this case Heard was doubly, unofficially tried within this context.
> .


Women do have agency though, and we don't know the extent of unreported male DV victims.


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Women do have agency though, and *we don't know the extent of unreported male DV victims.*


We don’t and there are some horrible societal views around that too. But was Depp subject to any of those stereotypes in the media circus surrounding the case? That’s not a combative challenge btw - I missed any denigration of Depp’s character based on being the _recipient_ of DV but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t any.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> We don’t and there are some horrible societal views around that too. But was Depp subject to any of those stereotypes in the media circus surrounding the case? That’s not a combative challenge btw - I missed any denigration of Depp’s character based on being the _recipient_ of DV but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t any.


Before this trial, yes I do think he was subject to those stereotypes in the legacy and social media circus. He was vilified and lost his film contracts.  I don't agree with how he chose to clear his name, but the guilty until proved innocent was one of the motivations he talked about. 

But I don't think he was vilified as much as AH is now being and what she has gone through in the past 6weeks or so.  What's happened to AH in the social media (not necessarily the legacy media which seems less vitriolic) is appalling.

Edit to add: I don't think he suffered stereotypical abuse as a male DV victim before this trial.


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## Limejuice (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> David Clapson
> 
> It's true that the jury found against  Adam Waldman as Depp's agent. They literally believed the four police officers called to the scene  that found AH wasn't injured as alleged and the premises not roughed up, so not accepting what AW alleged happened later. Fair enough.


Interestingly, the jury had no problem with JD's agent (Waldman) calling the AH story a "hoax". (Isn't that what all American attorneys do?)

The element the jury agreed as defamatory was the accusation by Adam Waldman (Depp's attorney) that AH and / or friends fabricated evidence, then called the police a second time. The suggestion was they staged  evidence that a ruckus had occurred. Spilled wine, etc. The jury found this defamatory. With no specific evidence that this was true, other than circumstantial inference, it was the correct conclusion by the jury. 

Frankly, I'm impressed the jury managed to sift through the logical conundra to reach this conclusion.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Limejuice said:


> Interestingly, the jury had no problem with JD's agent (Waldman) calling the AH story a "hoax". (Isn't that what all American attorneys do?)
> 
> The element the jury agreed as defamatory was the accusation by Adam Waldman (Depp's attorney) that AH and / or friends fabricated evidence, then called the police a second time. The suggestion was they staged  evidence that a ruckus had occurred. Spilled wine, etc. The jury found this defamatory. With no specific evidence that this was true, other than circumstantial inference, it was the correct conclusion by the jury.
> 
> Frankly, I'm impressed the jury managed to sift through the logical conundra to reach this conclusion.


Yes I'm still confused by it to an extent. There was no evidence of a second call to the police that I'm aware of: 2 cops attended the first call  and said no evidence of injury/ruckus then a second set of cops turned up (but no evidence of  second call) and said the same as the first set of cops. 

Then there's evidence of ruckus after all of this and AW saying that AH and her friends made it all up. Like you I have no idea how the jury managed to navigate all of this but I'm fine with them finding in her favour. Another aspect I dislike about all of this is AW being Depp's agent, IE Depp never makes the allegations personally


----------



## Hollis (Jun 3, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> We don’t and there are some horrible societal views around that too. But was Depp subject to any of those stereotypes in the media circus surrounding the case? That’s not a combative challenge btw - I missed any denigration of Depp’s character based on being the _recipient_ of DV but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t any.


There are some stats available here from ONS.. don't ask me how it's calculated/estimated. 


The Office for National Statistics figures show every year that one in the three victims of domestic abuse are male equating to 757,000 men (1.561m women).
One in 6-7 men and one in 4 women will be a victim of domestic abuse in their lifetime.
Of domestic abuse crimes recorded by the police, 26% were committed against men. This equates to c155,000 offences per year.
Only 4.4% of victims of domestic abuse being supporting by local domestic services are men according to SafeLives data. This highlights how few men are being supported for local domestic abuse services
Over the pandemic period, the charity saw an increase of calls to its helpline by one quarter and visits to its website by 75%.
61% of the men who call the ManKind Initiative helpline have never spoken to anyone before about the abuse they are suffering and 64% would not have called if the helpline was not anonymous.
There are 39 organisations with 238 spaces in refuges or safe houses for men – with only 58 of those places are dedicated for men.
*Half of male victims (49%) fail to tell anyone they are a victim of domestic abuse and are two and a half times less likely to tell anyone than female victims (19%).*
11% of male victims (7.2% women) have considered taking their life due to partner abuse. The charity has seen an increase in calls regarding suicide ideation over the pandemic period.
Over the past five years (April 2015 to March 20), on average 12 men per year had been killed by a partner or ex-partner (74 women per year).
Media -

https://www.mankind.org.uk/wp-conte...-Partner-Abuse-Final-Published-April-2021.pdf


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2022)

On the why would anyone do it, well some people lie about having cancer don't they, despite the likelihood of being found out and despite the stigma. It's vanishingly rare but it does happen. I don't think that's necessarily what happened here (iirc depp admitted some of the stuff he did even) and it doesn't excuse the cesspit that social media became around this. Its pretty scary that a tweet saying that depp had the right to kill her got over 120,000 likes. Even if she did lie about everything and does end up face criminal charges for perjury etc on some of it (unlikely imo) the role of these ppl is fucking despicable


----------



## Limejuice (Jun 3, 2022)

cesare said:


> Another aspect I dislike about all of this is AW being Depp's agent, IE Depp never makes the allegations personally


I think you've hit a rich seam of debate here.

AH never personally made any statements about JD (or domestic / sexual violence) as such. 

The ACLU wrote the article. The ACLU lawyers finagled the story to avoid defamation. (Not well enough.) The Washington Post wrote the headline. I think the ACLU should have their lawyers' arses kicked for incompetence. And someone should ask Jeff Bezos's paper about liability. Just saying. 

Also JD never uttered any of the statement that AH's suit complained of. It was his lawyer, allegedly acting as an agent. The court was denied the chance to open the lid on attorney/client privilege. 

So both sets of defamation rely on inferred authorship.

While we can be a fans of drama and celeb-crisis, it's a legal construct that both defamed the other. And they probably did. So much crap; so much damage. 

The only aspect worth a fuck is whether a party lost real money.

AH's argument was weak. JD's was better. 

And I think the damages awarded reflect the jury's opinion on the matter.


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## Dystopiary (Jun 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Cos Cloo asked what would motivate a false allegation and this was a case i could recall which was a proven false allegation


I might be remembering wrongly but I'm pretty sure it wasn't proven false. Accepting several thousand pounds from a tabloid to say something certainly doesn't count as proof.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 3, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> On the why would anyone do it, well some people lie about having cancer don't they, despite the likelihood of being found out and despite the stigma. It's vanishingly rare but it does happen. I don't think that's necessarily what happened here (iirc depp admitted some of the stuff he did even) and it doesn't excuse the cesspit that social media became around this. *Its pretty scary that a tweet saying that depp had the right to kill her got over 120,000 likes. Even if she did lie about everything and does end up face criminal charges for perjury etc on some of it (unlikely imo) the role of these ppl is fucking despicable*


Abso-fucking-lutely. Honestly I don’t know the ins and outs of what happened in their relationship and I don’t think anyone on here can, no matter how closely they think they’ve followed the case. However, we can all see the takes on social media; the memes, the tweets, the “suggested” videos. To agree with a quote in that NYTimes article, I also don’t feel I followed the case but it followed me.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2022)

Limejuice said:


> I think you've hit a rich seam of debate here.
> 
> AH never personally made any statements about JD (or domestic / sexual violence) as such.
> 
> ...


The ACLU's part was reprehensible, fuck their part of AH's "donation".

 I agree with so much of what you say on this. 

I approach this from a DV pov, and the adverse impact of this abusive and selfish pair on those suffering in the real world with little money to help fight their cause. 

But there's entertainment in it and money to be exploited, and the rich end up richer, and many of us quietly despair.


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## D'wards (Jun 3, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> I might be remembering wrongly but I'm pretty sure it wasn't proven false. Accepting several thousand pounds from a tabloid to say something certainly doesn't count as proof.


You see I'm pretty sure it was. It was nearly 30 years ago though and there's scant info left on the Internet, apart from a report in the Independent stating the verdict and that the CPS got criticised for bringing such a thin case to trial.
Also anecdotally my aunty knew the "victim", and it was just accepted she made the whole thing up


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## D'wards (Jun 4, 2022)

Depp celebrated his win by going to a wildlife sanctuary and cuddling a badger called Freddie Mercury.
Its been a strange old affair


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## cesare (Jun 4, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Depp celebrated his win by going to a wildlife sanctuary and cuddling a badger called Freddie Mercury.
> Its been a strange old affair
> View attachment 325473


I have no idea how he managed to fit in this performative display before immediately coming to the UK to perform with Jeff Beck.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 4, 2022)

cesare said:


> I have no idea how he managed to fit in this performative display before immediately coming to the UK to perform with Jeff Beck.



I'm not sure how badgers figure into the court case victory thing.

Time wise - are you factoring in the timezone difference?


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## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Abso-fucking-lutely. Honestly I don’t know the ins and outs of what happened in their relationship and I don’t think anyone on here can, no matter how closely they think they’ve followed the case. However, we can all see the takes on social media; the memes, the tweets, the “suggested” videos. To agree with a quote in that NYTimes article, I also don’t feel I followed the case but it followed me.


I kept on trying to avoid that stuff but I couldn't avoid seeing it all the same especially on fb and twitter, it was even worse on a desktop with the 'recommended videos' and ads. I do listen to true crime podcasts but the ones I like haven't discussed it and certainly not in a sensationalised way. It was such a high profile case on such a sensitive topic and I don't buy that it was all just Depp's lawyers and their PR firms creating this stuff. Loads of people were cashing in on it, not just Depp supporters although they were the most visible and often the nastiest.


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## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

cesare said:


> I have no idea how he managed to fit in this performative display before immediately coming to the UK to perform with Jeff Beck.


Is that a Che Guevara patch he's wearing?


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2022)

cesare said:


> I have no idea how he managed to fit in this performative display before immediately coming to the UK to perform with Jeff Beck.



I think Jeff Beck's wife took him to the wildlife sanctuary inbetween gigs..


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## Raheem (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollis said:


> I think Jeff Beck's wife took him to the wildlife sanctuary inbetween gigs..


Jeff Beck is well into animal rights, I believe.

Edit: Google says he is patron of a rescue centre in Kent, and this photo was taken at a rescue centre in Kent. Join the dots, and you will see that Jeff Beck and his wife must have installed some sort of remote control technology in Johnny Depp and made him beat up Amber Heard, all with this PR objective in mind.


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## cesare (Jun 4, 2022)

8ball said:


> I'm not sure how badgers figure into the court case victory thing.
> 
> Time wise - are you factoring in the timezone difference?


I'm still grieving Badgers - he'd have had a few words to say about cunts using badgers for their own performances etc


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## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

cesare said:


> I'm still grieving Badgers - he'd have had a few words to say about cunts using badgers for their own performances etc


I doubt the badger was pleased. It doesn't look too happy


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## Humberto (Jun 4, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I doubt the badger was pleased. It doesn't look too happy



Looks a bit embarrassed


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## cesare (Jun 4, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I doubt the badger was pleased. It doesn't look too happy


Aye, those lovely and strong creatures aren't into hugs and being turned into a circus.


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## cesare (Jun 4, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Looks a bit embarrassed


Looks as though it would prefer being elsewhere


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## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

cesare said:


> Aye, those lovely and strong creatures aren't into hugs and being turned into a circus.


I absolutely hate the trend of doing that with animals, iirc I might have had that conversation with badgers too.

Theres a badger in my road, I'd hate for Johnny Depp or Amber Heard for that matter to come and pick it up for a photo opportunity


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## Limejuice (Jun 4, 2022)

cesare said:


> Aye, those lovely and strong creatures aren't into hugs and being turned into a circus.


My favourite expression to describe something difficult is: "It's like trying to gift-wrap a badger."


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## 8ball (Jun 4, 2022)

I'm finding it hard to read the badger's emotions in that pic.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

It can actually hurt a lot of wild animals to be picked up etc. At the least it will probably be terrified


----------



## cesare (Jun 4, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I absolutely hate the trend of doing that with animals, iirc I might have had that conversation with badgers too.
> 
> Theres a badger in my road, I'd hate for Johnny Depp or Amber Heard for that matter to come and pick it up for a photo opportunity


If I were a woodland creature, I would invite 
those two to have a long slow look at their behaviour before trying to collude with or against their woodland friends


----------



## 8ball (Jun 4, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> It can actually hurt a lot of wild animals to be picked up etc. At the least it will probably be terrified



It's an orphaned badger cub which is being hand-reared, I expect it is used to people and the people at the sanctuary were happy to have the publicity.


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## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

8ball said:


> It's an orphaned badger cub which is being hand-reared, I expect it is used to people and the people at the sanctuary were happy to have the publicity.


Oh ok. I hope you're right. Do you have a link? If you are, apologies.


----------



## Humberto (Jun 4, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> It can actually hurt a lot of wild animals to be picked up etc. At the least it will probably be terrified



Bad country for wildlife generally UK is.


----------



## cesare (Jun 4, 2022)

8ball said:


> It's an orphaned badger cub which is being hand-reared, I expect it is used to people and the people at the sanctuary were happy to have the publicity.


Tbf I've more time for this orphaned baby than those two privileged pricks.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 4, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Oh ok. I hope you're right. Do you have a link? If you are, apologies.



NP 









						Johnny Depp cradles orphaned badger in new photo after defamation win
					

Following the verdict in the Johnny Depp v. Amber Heard case, Depp was photographed holding an orphaned badger at an animal rescue organization in the UK.Folly Wildlife Rescue posted a photo on their Facebook informing fans that Depp, 58, along with guitarist Jeff Beck had stopped by their...




					www.indy100.com


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

I was clearing some duckweed from the pond yesterday and touched Bathsheba by mistake, she is really used to people and usually will not react if you sit down, talk loudly, mow the lawn, put your hand in the pond etc. She couldn't get away fast enough and shot across the water so fast I couldn't even see it. A badger is a bit different than a frog, but there's a big difference between a wild animal being used to people and actually liking contact with them. I've got a big problem with a lot of stuff showing animals on social media in completely unnatural situations for this reason.


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## Humberto (Jun 4, 2022)

I've no idea really, more of an avian fancier, but it is well grim. Feel like it's another Tory rip off. Destroy the ecology and the environment, even though we were already the shittest at it.


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## AmateurAgitator (Jun 4, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Is that a Che Guevara patch he's wearing?


Yes it is.


----------



## JimW (Jun 4, 2022)

Good job it wasn't a dolphin sanctuary then.


----------



## Humberto (Jun 4, 2022)

JimW said:


> Good job it wasn't a dolphin sanctuary then.



Why?


----------



## spring-peeper (Jun 4, 2022)

8ball said:


> I'm not sure how badgers figure into the court case victory thing.
> 
> Time wise - are you factoring in the timezone difference?




Personally, I liked that he played with a badger.

I miss our Badger......


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## 8ball (Jun 4, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Why?



Dolphins are murderously enraged by the sight of Che Guevara.


----------



## JimW (Jun 4, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Why?







__





						Loading…
					





					www.urban75.net


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## 8ball (Jun 4, 2022)

JimW said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not in the blowhole, though.


----------



## Aladdin (Jun 4, 2022)

There has been a massive social media hate fest against Heard for the past few years. Considerably damaging to her. I doubt she will ever be able to work or walk down a street without getting grief.

Depp was dropped from POTC. Lost work. And people rallied around him on social media declaring his innocence from day 1.

The fact he is seen on camera being threatening and abusive...somehow got twisted into.. "how scummy of AH to video that"

His apparent sainthood in many people's minds was incorruptable. "Johnny couldnt hurt a fly"...Yet...in court we got to hear his threatening texts, rape threats, video footage of a not so nice quite violent Johnny..we heard exes say he was perfect but there was an ex who said he wasnt.

The case became all about proving she was as bad as him.
And somehow that turned into Depp being 100% innocent.

I found this article summed up the manipulative social media impact very well.









						TikTok’s Amber Heard Hate Machine
					

Television turned the celebrity trial into a 24-hour tabloid spectacle. Social media made it into a sport.




					www.google.com
				




"You might expect a defamation trial pitting one movie star against another to unleash a fire hose of debased memes in both directions, but that’s not what’s happening here. The online commentary about the trial quickly advanced from a he-said she-said drama script to an internet-wide smear campaign against Heard. As one of Hollywood’s most legendary heartthrobs, Depp enjoys a large and besotted fan base. But his campaign has since attracted the support of men’s rights activists, right-wing media figures,"


I googled Saint Johnny Depp...



I believe these are all sold out.....


Their relationship did not bring out the best in either of them. That's on both of them. I dont believe Depp has "won" in the sense that he returns to being who people believed him to be...a gentle wouldnt hurt a fly sensitive.... He certainly doesnt come out of this squeaky clean. But he probably has saved his career.


----------



## Lea (Jun 4, 2022)

Serves him right for cheating on his partner of 14 years and mother of his 2 children, Vanessa Paradis (with Amber Heard)! However, the lovely Vanessa still defended him when she heard about the allegations: 



> In a hand-written letter to TMZ, she wrote: "Johnny Depp is the father of my two children, he is a sensitive, loving and loved person.
> 
> "I believe with all my heart that these recent accusations being made are outrageous. In all the years I have known Johnny, he has never been physically abusive to me and this is nothing like the man I lived with for 14 wonderful years."



from Hello Magazine

Personally, I think that JD and AH are as bad as each other. They went into a passionate relationship. Relationship broke down. They fought each other. However, to accuse someone of domestic violence has serious consequences.


----------



## Aladdin (Jun 4, 2022)

I just hope nobody makes a film of this crap.


----------



## Lea (Jun 4, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> I just hope nobody makes a film of this crap.


I think Channel 5 are doing a documentary to be aired tonight about the case. 😁


----------



## Aladdin (Jun 4, 2022)

Lea said:


> I think Channel 5 are doing a documentary to be aired tonight about the case. 😁


😧
Oh for crying out loud...😄


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## Cloo (Jun 4, 2022)

Lea said:


> I think Channel 5 are doing a documentary to be aired tonight about the case. 😁


Well that'll be quality journalism...


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

There were absolutely pro-Heard people using this trial as a sort of purity test on social media btw. Probably not as nasty in the scheme of things as the Depp stans but I've absolutely seen people saying that if you don't believe her account you are a fascist and a misogynist. Of course that's a result of MRAs etc using this trial and of course because of the nasty shit Depp said supposedly when under the influence etc. But I don't see how it's helped either of them for this to become yet another part of the culture wars. Its fucked up and looks like this is gonna drag on for years.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

> There has been a massive social media hate fest against Heard for the past few years. Considerably damaging to her. I doubt she will ever be able to work or walk down a street without getting grief.



Yep, I doubt she will ever work again. People say he will carry on getting richer and richer but I doubt he'll appear in anything big budget again, this has probably fucked both their careers, hers more so


----------



## marshall (Jun 4, 2022)

Depp will be fine, probably won't be starring in any big budget Hollywood A lister films for a while, but he's bound to get independent movie parts - which he's always done anyway - quick Google, yeh, apparently playing part of King Louis XV in some indy venture this summer. 

What can you say, he's a good actor, course he's going to work again.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 4, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> There were absolutely pro-Heard people using this trial as a sort of purity test on social media btw. Probably not as nasty in the scheme of things as the Depp stans but I've absolutely seen people saying that if you don't believe her account you are a fascist and a misogynist. Of course that's a result of MRAs etc using this trial and of course because of the nasty shit Depp said supposedly when under the influence etc. But I don't see how it's helped either of them for this to become yet another part of the culture wars. Its fucked up and looks like this is gonna drag on for years.


I think you’re right about there being groups using this to support their ideology.  However, I also think that as with all controversial things on the internet, it’s so easy to get pulled into polarised arguments even if you don’t mean to. I literally came to this thread to ask if there were any recommendations for balanced reading but then got drawn into two pages of arguing about police/court/media/public bias without intending to. 

I slept awfully last night too and I suspect reading and posting on this thread in the evening contributed to that, so I think I’ll step back now. I’ve made my points and when I came back to urban I promised myself I’d avoid those arguments where everyone just repeats their position and there’s no shifting of positions and little exploration of middle ground… though tbf  there’s been some discussion which has met the latter.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> I think you’re right about there being groups using this to support their ideology.  However, I also think that as with all controversial things on the internet, it’s so easy to get pulled into polarised arguments even if you don’t mean to. I literally came to this thread to ask if there were any recommendations for balanced reading but then got drawn into two pages of arguing about police/court/media/public bias without intending to.
> 
> I slept awfully last night too and I suspect reading and posting on this thread in the evening contributed to that, so I think I’ll step back now. I’ve made my points and when I came back to urban I promised myself I’d avoid those arguments where everyone just repeats their position and there’s no shifting of positions and little exploration of middle ground… though tbf  there’s been some discussion which has met the latter.


Sorry to hear that, hope you feel better soon


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 4, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Sorry to hear that, hope you feel better soon


Thanks lovely. 

Tbf my sleep can easily be appalling at the best of times! It’s a combination of my brain’s wiring, stress and increasingly my age. But as part of managing that I try not to get involved in internet arguments or “robust debates” about such emotive subjects after a certain time in the day. Problem is sometimes it’s hard to put something down when you’ve got invested in it.


----------



## Lea (Jun 4, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> I think you’re right about there being groups using this to support their ideology.  However, I also think that as with all controversial things on the internet, it’s so easy to get pulled into polarised arguments even if you don’t mean to. I literally came to this thread to ask if there were any recommendations for balanced reading but then got drawn into two pages of arguing about police/court/media/public bias without intending to.
> 
> I slept awfully last night too and I suspect reading and posting on this thread in the evening contributed to that, so I think I’ll step back now. I’ve made my points and when I came back to urban I promised myself I’d avoid those arguments where everyone just repeats their position and there’s no shifting of positions and little exploration of middle ground… though tbf  there’s been some discussion which has met the latter.


Sorry to hear that. It can be very draining to get involved in an internet argument. I find it very stressful myself and try to choose my words carefully now. Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Thanks lovely.
> 
> Tbf my sleep can easily be appalling at the best of times! It’s a combination of my brain’s wiring, stress and increasingly my age. But as part of managing that I try not to get involved in internet arguments or “robust debates” about such emotive subjects after a certain time in the day. Problem is sometimes it’s hard to put something down when you’ve got invested in it.


I'm the same as I think you know! Hopefully you can have a nice weekend. Spending time away from the socials including this place may help x


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Jun 4, 2022)

Lea said:


> Sorry to hear that. It can be very draining to get involved in an internet argument. I find it very stressful myself and try to choose my words carefully now. Hope you feel better soon.


Oh now I’m worried that everyone thought I kept on churning everything over in my head! It wasn’t that bad but these discussions definitely boost your dopamine at the wrong time of day. 

But also thank you 

If I’m seen posting on this thread after 6pm today, please tell me to fuck off


----------



## Hollis (Jun 4, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> I slept awfully last night too and I suspect reading and posting on this thread in the evening contributed to that, so I think I’ll step back now. I’ve made my points and when I came back to urban I promised myself I’d avoid those arguments where everyone just repeats their position and there’s no shifting of positions and little exploration of middle ground… though tbf  there’s been some discussion which has met the latter.


The hearing is all available on YouTube.. Law and Crime Channel have a playlist with it all on!  I think you have to watch it, rather than read a transcript, to get a real sense of the performative nature of what was going on in courtroom.  Tbf - I think this thread has been _pretty_ reasonable given the emotive nature of the subject matter..  I thought this article in the Guardian pullled out some useful takings from it all.. Was it really asking too much for Amber Heard to be listened to without prejudice? | Gaby Hinsliff


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollis said:


> The hearing is all available on YouTube.. Law and Crime Channel have a playlist with it all on!  I think you have to watch it, rather than read a transcript, to get a real sense of the performative nature of what was going on in courtroom.  Tbf - I think this thread has been _pretty_ reasonable given the emotive nature of the subject matter..  I thought this article in the Guardian pullled out some useful takings from it all.. Was it really asking too much for Amber Heard to be listened to without prejudice? | Gaby Hinsliff


I struggle with a lot of 5 minute YouTube videos so I’m not going to be able to watch the trial, even if I did want to use my precious totally free time to do so  

The article looks good though so thank you.


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## Lea (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollis said:


> The hearing is all available on YouTube.. Law and Crime Channel have a playlist with it all on!  I think you have to watch it, rather than read a transcript, to get a real sense of the performative nature of what was going on in courtroom.  Tbf - I think this thread has been _pretty_ reasonable given the emotive nature of the subject matter..  I thought this article in the Guardian pullled out some useful takings from it all.. Was it really asking too much for Amber Heard to be listened to without prejudice? | Gaby Hinsliff


There was prejudice against both parties. Him for being male and her for saying bad things vs. a popular actor.


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## D'wards (Jun 4, 2022)

Like Will Smith, Depp is massively famous and well loved, but when you think about it hasn't done _that _many brilliant films. 
He has done a few, more than smith, and he's a great actor, but it's been slim pickings this century. 

The pirates films are massively and inexplicably popular mind, despite not being that great.
Even some of his Burton stuff is good but not great. 
Rumour is he'll play beetlejuice in a sequel but seems unlikely whilst Michael Keaton draws breath


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2022)

Lea said:


> There was prejudice against both parties. Him for being male and her for saying bad things vs. a popular actor.


Yes - the article, despite the headline, (which i understand the writers don't write..) does kind of touch on prejudice in both directions in general.


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Like Will Smith, Depp is massively famous and well loved, but when you think about it hasn't done _that _many brilliant films.
> He has done a few, more than smith, and he's a great actor, but it's been slim pickings this century.
> 
> The pirates films are massively and inexplicably popular mind, despite not being that great.
> ...


I did watch 'What's Eating Gilbert Grape' yesterday - excellent movie.. great acting all round.


----------



## Cloo (Jun 4, 2022)

Another disturbing feature of the case is it plays into 'If he didn't abuse one partner, he couldn't have abused another' idea. Kate Moss spoke up for him from her experience and I'm sure their relationship was OK for her - but then maybe he wasn't as deep in the drugs and drink then, plus there was much less of a mismatch of age (10 years rather than 20) and 'star power' between them (both very famous compared to one megastar and one relatively minor-league actor) and thus the stage was much less set for an abusive situation. Maybe Heard was a more 'difficult' person, but that doesn't mean she deserved the abuse I think it's fairly clear she got.


----------



## Lea (Jun 4, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Another disturbing feature of the case is it plays into 'If he didn't abuse one partner, he couldn't have abused another' idea. Kate Moss spoke up for him from her experience and I'm sure their relationship was OK for her - but then maybe he wasn't as deep in the drugs and drink then, plus there was much less of a mismatch of age (10 years rather than 20) and 'star power' between them (both very famous compared to one megastar and one relatively minor-league actor) and thus the stage was much less set for an abusive situation. Maybe Heard was a more 'difficult' person, but that doesn't mean she deserved the abuse I think it's fairly clear she got.


True, but there does seem to be a trend where 3 of his previous partners including Vanessa Paradis, partner of 14 years, defend him.

We can only speculate what went on between JD and AH.


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## Sweet FA (Jun 4, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Innocent. I recall it at the time the woman later admitted she made it up. Got paid £50k by the News of the World.
> 
> Can't find any details of it now though really


That whole case was dodgy as fuck and you're handily not recalling any of the details.


Spoiler: some details of the case




Charles + 2 mates turn up at his ex girlfriend's flat at 6am 'for breakfast'
Hoof down shitloads of coke
Then either: nothing happened/it was consensual/they tied her up and raped her for hours
"after the incident the woman had gone to her neighbours and was eventually taken to a special police examination suite in Wimbledon. However, a "suitably qualified" doctor could not be found and she was not medically examined until the following afternoon. By then, Mr Carter Manning said, the woman had washed herself with a flannel "because she felt dirty".
Both Charles and the other guy refused to name the 3rd man
Afaik, the woman didn't say she'd made it up; she was quoted as saying she wished she hadn't taken the case to court which isn't fucking surprising


----------



## marshall (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollis said:


> I did watch 'What's Eating Gilbert Grape' yesterday - excellent movie.. great acting all round.


Donnie Brasco's a good one too, and Cry-Baby...c'mon he ain't bad.


----------



## Aladdin (Jun 4, 2022)

I liked him in 21 Jump Street and Edward Scissorhands. 
There's no doubt he can act really well.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 4, 2022)

Edward Scissorhands is of course a classic.
Just looked up Heard's imbd. She hasn't done too much really- can't think of any starring roles.
Yeah Depp can act but can't think of many classics this century. The first pirates was good and he's definitely created an iconic character there.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2022)

Lea said:


> True, but there does seem to be a trend where 3 of his previous partners including Vanessa Paradis, partner of 14 years, defend him.
> 
> We can only speculate what went on between JD and AH.


That doesn't mean it didn't happen. Coke and alcohol can seriously fuck someone up.


----------



## Looby (Jun 4, 2022)

Lea said:


> True, but there does seem to be a trend where 3 of his previous partners including Vanessa Paradis, partner of 14 years, defend him.
> 
> We can only speculate what went on between JD and AH.


Relationships are different, people change. There’s always a first time for anything and that can often be later in life. As others have said, drugs and booze can massively impact actions and behaviours.


----------



## Looby (Jun 4, 2022)

Also, I’m not sure I’d want to put myself in the firing line after seeing the reaction to Heard. 
I’m not saying that’s the case here, I’ve got no idea, but it’s a good way of silencing people isn’t it.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 4, 2022)

Did Heard initially break the story to the media or did the media discover and break the story without anyone's permission?


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## IC3D (Jun 4, 2022)

Looby said:


> Also, I’m not sure I’d want to put myself in the firing line after seeing the reaction to Heard.
> I’m not saying that’s the case here, I’ve got no idea, but it’s a good way of silencing people isn’t it.


She's a bit like Emily Pankhurst sort of.


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## cesare (Jun 4, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Did Heard initially break the story to the media or did the media discover and break the story without anyone's permission?


TMZ (paparazzi etc) tried to prevent their ex-employee from testifying about this. TMZ received an edited video together with info about where AH was going to be to get the restraining order. They were able to publish the video within 15 minutes as the copyright holder had provided it.


----------



## Lea (Jun 4, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Another disturbing feature of the case is it plays into 'If he didn't abuse one partner, he couldn't have abused another' idea. Kate Moss spoke up for him from her experience and I'm sure their relationship was OK for her - but then maybe he wasn't as deep in the drugs and drink then, plus there was much less of a mismatch of age (10 years rather than 20) and 'star power' between them (both very famous compared to one megastar and one relatively minor-league actor) and thus the stage was much less set for an abusive situation. Maybe Heard was a more 'difficult' person, but that doesn't mean she deserved the abuse I think it's fairly clear she got.


Do you think that she could have abused him?


----------



## IC3D (Jun 4, 2022)

The bonfire of Amber Heard  on  social media is much like the grim flames that burned the flesh of Joan of Arc.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2022)

IC3D said:


> The bonfire of Amber Heard  on  social media is much like the grim flames that burned the flesh of Joan of Arc.


You have lunched well and are being ironic I hope and trust.


----------



## story (Jun 4, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Another disturbing feature of the case is it plays into 'If he didn't abuse one partner, he couldn't have abused another' idea. Kate Moss spoke up for him from her experience and I'm sure their relationship was OK for her - but then maybe he wasn't as deep in the drugs and drink then, plus there was much less of a mismatch of age (10 years rather than 20) and 'star power' between them (both very famous compared to one megastar and one relatively minor-league actor) and thus the stage was much less set for an abusive situation. Maybe Heard was a more 'difficult' person, but that doesn't mean she deserved the abuse I think it's fairly clear she got.



I think the point of Kate Moss appearing was to correct the details about her falling down the staircase.

Amber Heard was saying that she’d attacked Depp because she thought he was going to throw her sister down the stairs (because she “knew” that he’d thrown KM down the stairs).

Depp’s team weren’t allowed to call KM because she wasn’t mentioned anywhere in the case, so they couldn’t demonstrate that Heard was dissembling around that claim. Then Heard mentioned KM on the stand, so then she could be called.

So Depp’s team called her to say that he had NOT thrown her down the stairs, she had slipped, and he’d been very solicitous.

The intention was to once again show AH as a liar, or at least as someone who manipulates the truth to her own ends.


I’m pretty sure that AH behaved appallingly. That one tape of her saying “I didn’t punch you, I hit you, you're such a baby, grow up” was the clincher for me. That exchange didn’t come out of a vacuum, that was based on the ongoing dynamic of their relationship.

I’m sure that Depp also behaved appallingly.

I think they must have had a really horrible toxic relationship that brought out the worst in both of them.

But on balance, I reckon that Heard was the worst of the two. Based on the Swoop documentaries and various other clips I’ve looked at I think that AH was the main instigator and also the one who wanted to maintain the dynamic. Abusers don’t want to give up the situation because it serves them in some way. I think JD retaliated and reacted rather than instigated.

Abuse victims can and do lash out, retaliate, stand up for themselves, try to fight back, kick off, lose their shit etc. Not all abuse victims cower and cringe all the time. That’s a cliche we see in soap operas. It’s much more complicated than that.

One of the things I’ve found really interesting is that amongst the people I know, everyone who has experienced intimate partner abuse believes JD while those who have not had this experience tend to give more credence to AH. All of them are women, and none of them are JD stans. This is entirely anecdotal of course. But I do find it interesting.



Here‘s the first Swoop doc. If you want to see the others just go to her channel





I also looked at body-language channels like Observe. Yes, I know it’s not a hard science.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 4, 2022)

I think that unfortunately for Heard some of the details are so odd that the Depp Stan memelords had a field day - the poo in bed and "my dog stepped on a bee" face were a flipping gift for them.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 4, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Another disturbing feature of the case is it plays into 'If he didn't abuse one partner, he couldn't have abused another' idea. Kate Moss spoke up for him from her experience and I'm sure their relationship was OK for her - but then maybe he wasn't as deep in the drugs and drink then, plus there was much less of a mismatch of age (10 years rather than 20) and 'star power' between them (both very famous compared to one megastar and one relatively minor-league actor) and thus the stage was much less set for an abusive situation. Maybe Heard was a more 'difficult' person, but that doesn't mean she deserved the abuse I think it's fairly clear she got.



No, Kate Moss was called because Heard said that she knew that Depp had thrown her down the stairs. She didn't 'speak up for him', she was called to answer the question about whether that incident had happened. She comes over as a credible witness.

Did you hear the recordings? Heard wasn't 'difficult' she was extremely abusive. I'm quite shocked actually watching the court proceedings, it's not what I expected.


----------



## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

story I have now watched that Swoop post you linked to. Previously I had watched some of the same channels as you but mainly the legal analysis and also a breakdown from a professor of psychology. I found watching Swoop very difficult and ended up very upset a couple of times - not the fault of Swoop at all, but I found her reaction so similar to mine. I had very much started to doubt myself after yesterday and started to think that my own DV experiences were in some way mistaken/invalid. Also whilst I tried to laugh it off, my own abuse on this thread I felt was very unfair and had contributed to how I was feeling.

Red Cat It's probably superfluous and you really don't need any "likes" from me but I very much appreciated that you'd taken the time to watch and listen.


----------



## story (Jun 5, 2022)

My experience mirrors yours cesare

If you feel that you can, look at the other videos too. Similarly thoughtful and considered, albeit coloured by the context of her experience and opinion. She digs into some interesting detail.


eta
frogwoman I think you might find them interesting too,


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

story said:


> My experience mirrors yours cesare
> 
> If you feel that you can, look at the other videos too. Similarly thoughtful and considered, albeit coloured by the context of her experience and opinion. She digs into some interesting detail.


I will do, thank you.


----------



## spring-peeper (Jun 5, 2022)

.


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

I hadn't actually watched any of the trial. I'm watching some of the Swoop doc now. Depp does seem convincing in those clips although I know they're speeded up. The bit about the boots is quite chilling. He's a good actor of course though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 5, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Like Will Smith, Depp is massively famous and well loved, but when you think about it hasn't done _that _many brilliant films.
> He has done a few, more than smith, and he's a great actor, but it's been slim pickings this century.
> 
> The pirates films are massively and inexplicably popular mind, despite not being that great.
> ...



Like Tim Burton, he's now phoned in far more half-arsed rip offs of his good films than he's done actual good films.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 5, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> --- Removed ---


Don't do that. There's more than enough pantomime partisan meme-cringe everywhere else without gumming up this thread as well.

Edit: Ta


----------



## Cid (Jun 5, 2022)

marshall said:


> If AH can’t pay the £8.5m, can she still appeal? Or does she have to pay the fine in full before she can begin the process of appealing?





Cid said:


> No, being unable to pay something won't affect rights to appeal.
> 
> I've got myself confused over the actual process of payment, i.e whether an award of damages is immediately 'payable' (in reality it would probably be a negotiated set of payments over a period of time, depending on ability to pay) or whether it waits until after appeals process*... But certainly being unable to pay wouldn't affect your right to appeal; rights to appeal are integral to rule of law type stuff.
> 
> *I _think_ it's probably placed on hold until appeals process is complete, or you'd get weird payment-repayment shenanigans going on.



May have been wrong about this incidentally, because of a quirk of Virginia law... Although it seems to be complicated. We shall see.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 5, 2022)

cesare said:


> story I have now watched that Swoop post you linked to. Previously I had watched some of the same channels as you but mainly the legal analysis and also a breakdown from a professor of psychology. I found watching Swoop very difficult and ended up very upset a couple of times - not the fault of Swoop at all, but I found her reaction so similar to mine. I had very much started to doubt myself after yesterday and started to think that my own DV experiences were in some way mistaken/invalid. Also whilst I tried to laugh it off, my own abuse on this thread I felt was very unfair and had contributed to how I was feeling.
> 
> Red Cat It's probably superfluous and you really don't need any "likes" from me but I very much appreciated that you'd taken the time to watch and listen.



I'd watched some before but found it quite difficult to follow the detail, and Depp's speech is so slow. I watched the swoop story linked to and I watched the cross-examination by his lawyer, who was impressive, he had a powerful team. Heard lies consistently throughout and accuses everyone else - the other witnesses -  of lying when her lies are exposed. She was entirely uncredible. The recordings were very disturbing, more disturbing was that she responded to recordings of occasions when Depp tried to leave the argument by accusing him of going to begin the drug cycle all over again - that came over as gaslighting, On the basis of the evidence available at the trial, from what I've seen so far, I don't see how the jury could've come to any other conclusion.


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## Red Cat (Jun 5, 2022)

Yeh spring-peeper, remove that eh? It just makes it harder to judge and argue from the evidence when you stick misogynistic shit like that up.


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 5, 2022)

Red Cat said:


> Yeh spring-peeper, remove that eh? It just makes it harder to judge and argue from the evidence when you stick misogynistic shit like that up.


Yep, particularly jarring given both the thoughtful analysis that was going on at the time and the previous conversations about how women in general are vilified in these cases, and even if Heard was predominately the one at fault would it still justify the sheer amount of misogynistic crap that’s been thrown in her direction?


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## Yossarian (Jun 5, 2022)

From what I saw of the Swoop stuff, it mainly seems to be her agreeing with whatever Johnny Depp says and attacking whatever Amber Heard says. I thought this writer made some good points about all the body language going on, there's an air of "trial by TikTok" about it.

_As the Depp v. Heard case – a defamation dispute over allegations of domestic abuse and sexual violence between the pair – unfolds, videos like these, dissecting body language in the court case, have been amassing millions of views. They focus overwhelmingly on Heard, citing examples of her demeanour, posture, tics, and gestures as evidence of her deception ... As with the deluge of trial memes, body language analysis decontexualises and obscures the truth. But instead of using jokes, it peddles pseudoscience to present her guilt as an incontrovertible fact._









						What the internet's obsession with Amber Heard's body language says
					

Self-professed online experts are convinced physical movement justifies total villainisation.




					i-d.vice.com


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## Red Cat (Jun 5, 2022)

I thought the swoop vid was focused on what she said and not her body language. She mainly points out what she thinks is gaslighting, which is interpreted through her own experience and might not be evident to those who have no experience of it. But the trial itself, the evidence presented, the credibility of witnesses, and what comes out under cross-examination, that's there to view without having to watch anyone's commentary about it.


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

The AH's friends freeloading on Depp and moving into his house etc is something that's happened in a lot of abuse and murder cases, especially involving drugs and alcohol, and it obviously means the abuse can escalate to even more horrific levels once more people are introduced. I had no idea about this aspect of his allegations tbh. If it's true it makes me feel really sad and really uncomfortable because this case has been used so much by incel types but watching the trial testimony i can't help feeling some sympathy towards him. I hope they're both able to get the help they need.


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> From what I saw of the Swoop stuff, it mainly seems to be her agreeing with whatever Johnny Depp says and attacking whatever Amber Heard says. I thought this writer made some good points about all the body language going on, there's an air of "trial by TikTok" about it.
> 
> _As the Depp v. Heard case – a defamation dispute over allegations of domestic abuse and sexual violence between the pair – unfolds, videos like these, dissecting body language in the court case, have been amassing millions of views. They focus overwhelmingly on Heard, citing examples of her demeanour, posture, tics, and gestures as evidence of her deception ... As with the deluge of trial memes, body language analysis decontexualises and obscures the truth. But instead of using jokes, it peddles pseudoscience to present her guilt as an incontrovertible fact._
> 
> ...




As I said, Swoop brings her own context and opinion to bear. I’m not offering it as unbiased reporting. But she seems to me to be thoughtful and considered.

As for body language, while it is, as I said, not science, we all, every one of us, use it to some extent in our own interactions and it informs our own conscious or unconscious conclusions. I’ve been looking at videos that break down JD’s body language more even than AH’s , because I’ve found hers to be so comic book villain, almost like pantomime charicature. I’ve tried to find something to balance my own reading of her.


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 5, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> The AH's friends freeloading on Depp and moving into his house etc is something that's happened in a lot of abuse and murder cases, especially involving drugs and alcohol, and it obviously means the abuse can escalate to even more horrific levels once more people are introduced. I had no idea about this aspect of his allegations tbh. If it's true it makes me feel really sad and really uncomfortable because this case has been used so much by incel types but watching the trial testimony i can't help feeling some sympathy towards him. I hope they're both able to get the help they need.


The more I read I have no idea where the true balance of power was in that relationship, who lashed out first etc, and I’m not sure if any of us on here can. But I can definitely feel empathy and sympathy for both of them as troubled individuals stuck in a toxic pattern, whilst also thinking that many of their actions towards each other are never justifiable. Real life can be nuanced and complicated.

And to make a more general and difficult point, some domestic abusers do so because they are deeply troubled and have had extremely difficult (if not always abusive) backgrounds themselves, and it can be possible to view their actions as absolutely unacceptable but also have a degree of empathy for where those actions have come from. It’s a tricky balance to walk for professionals and I imagine the centre of that balance must shift in some areas compared to others, e.g. prisoner rehabilitation work compared to family work within child protection.

I also both hope from here they can get the support they they both need.


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

If you look at their respective body language during playback of various events, their recordings of rows etc. he shrinks and she preens.

They’re both actors so we may decide not to trust anything they do, but his demeanour seems to me to be consistent with the smaller more apparently unconscious reactions.


Edit: post taken down so this post edited


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

I found some of what Depp was saying in the testimony deeply disturbing tbh. I did believe Heaŕd at the start just because of how it was reported and the abuse she was getting but I'm really not so sure now.


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Yep, particularly jarring given both the thoughtful analysis that was going on at the time and the previous conversations about how women in general are vilified in these cases, and even if Heard was predominately the one at fault would it still justify the sheer amount of misogynistic crap that’s been thrown in her direction?


No it wouldnt but surely there's a case that some of the meme creators have committed contempt of court or something.


----------



## story (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> The more I read I have no idea where the true balance of power was in that relationship, who lashed out first etc, and I’m not sure if any of us on here can. But I can definitely feel empathy and sympathy for both of them as troubled individuals stuck in a toxic pattern, whilst also thinking that many of their actions towards each other are never justifiable. Real life can be nuanced and complicated.
> 
> And to make a more general and difficult point, some domestic abusers do so because they are deeply troubled and have had extremely difficult (if not always abusive) backgrounds themselves, and it can be possible to view their actions as absolutely unacceptable but also have a degree of empathy for where those actions have come from. It’s a tricky balance to walk for professionals and I imagine the centre of that balance must shift in some areas compared to others, e.g. prisoner rehabilitation work compared to family work within child protection.
> 
> I also both hope from here they can get the support they they both need.




One of the things that made me feel really uncomfortable was the many many examples of recordings during rows in which he is saying “let me go, I want to go, let me leave” and she’s saying “no, you always want to leave, stay and fight, I won’t let you leave”.


For me, that shows the balance of power. Does anyone act during rows? Even actors and histrionics, it seems to me, will be true to themselves during rows and fights.


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## Athos (Jun 5, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> No it wouldnt but surely there's a case that some of the meme creators have committed contempt of court or something.


It's a very high bar, because of the first amendment right to free speech.


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 5, 2022)

story said:


> One of the things that made me feel really uncomfortable was the many many examples of recordings during rows in which he is saying “let me go, I want to go, let me leave” and she’s saying “no, you always want to leave, stay and fight, I won’t let you leave”.
> 
> 
> For me, that shows the balance of power. Does anyone act during rows? Even actors and histrionics, it seems to me, will be true to themselves during rows and fights.


I don’t feel remotely comfortable analysing things, at that level, at this distance tbh.

But more generally the pattern of one partner wanting to stay and discuss/argue/fight and the other wanting to retreat is a very common relationship pattern in non abusive relationships. And in abusive relationships it’s not always the stayer who is the abusive one. Withdrawing in some contexts can be emotionally abusive.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> The more I read I have no idea where the true balance of power was in that relationship, who lashed out first etc, and I’m not sure if any of us on here can. But I can definitely feel empathy and sympathy for both of them as troubled individuals stuck in a toxic pattern, whilst also thinking that many of their actions towards each other are never justifiable. Real life can be nuanced and complicated.
> 
> And to make a more general and difficult point, some domestic abusers do so because they are deeply troubled and have had extremely difficult (if not always abusive) backgrounds themselves, and it can be possible to view their actions as absolutely unacceptable but also have a degree of empathy for where those actions have come from. It’s a tricky balance to walk for professionals and I imagine the centre of that balance must shift in some areas compared to others, e.g. prisoner rehabilitation work compared to family work within child protection.
> 
> I also both hope from here they can get the support they they both need.



I think you're talking around the case because you haven't watched it.


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> I don’t feel remotely comfortable analysing things, at that level, at this distance tbh.
> 
> But more generally the pattern of one partner wanting to stay and discuss/argue/fight and the other wanting to retreat is a very common relationship pattern in non abusive relationships. And in abusive relationships it’s not always the stayer who is the abusive one. Withdrawing in some contexts can be emotionally abusive.



Yes. And I think Swoop makes the same point.

Every time I listened to or watched anything, I’d be working to be objective and balanced. And every time I came away with the view, opinion and feeling that AH is the abuser.


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> I don’t feel remotely comfortable analysing things, at that level, at this distance tbh.
> 
> But more generally the pattern of one partner wanting to stay and discuss/argue/fight and the other wanting to retreat is a very common relationship pattern in non abusive relationships. And in abusive relationships it’s not always the stayer who is the abusive one. Withdrawing in some contexts can be emotionally abusive.


Because AH claimed that Depp had caused her PTSD she was required to have evaluations by both Depp's side and her own. Depp's expert diagnosed her with two concurrent personality disorders - and some of the behaviours and very real fear of abandonment seemed to explain why she would prefer to fight than risk being left. Unfortunately Depp's own abuse in childhood resulted in his way of coping being to retreat rather than fight. An impossible situation for both of them.


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## D'wards (Jun 5, 2022)

I think the audio tapes of Heard admitting to hitting Depp and mocking him for being a male DV victim went a long way to losing her case for her.
That was very nasty stuff.

Plus even if you watch the full tape of him raging about slamming doors in the kitchen at the end you can see Heard's face and she has a mocking smirk.
She doesn't look scared at all


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## D'wards (Jun 5, 2022)

I think this has been an interesting discussion.
A lot of participants just went with the party line that women don't lie about abuse from men amongst certain political persuasions and sent Depp to the gallows.
Now you've actually looked into the evidence some of ya'll have had a rethink.

That's a plus, shows people are willing to examine their own views rather than doggedly stick to something cos its the ideological thing to do


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

D'wards said:


> I think this has been an interesting discussion.
> A look of participants just went with the party line that women don't lie about abuse from men amongst certain political persuasions and sent Depp to the gallows.
> Now you've actually looked into the evidence some of ya'll have had a rethink.
> 
> That's a plus, shows people are willing to examine their own views rather than doggedly stick to something cos its the ideological thing to do



Patronising much?

Some of us had opinions that we didn’t air on here when it was so clamorous and partisan.


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## D'wards (Jun 5, 2022)

story said:


> Patronising much?
> 
> Some of us had opinions that we didn’t air on here when it was so clamorous and partisan.


Then I'm clearly not referring to you.

Note I said a lot, not every sod


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## D'wards (Jun 5, 2022)

story said:


> Patronising much?
> 
> Some of us had opinions that we didn’t air on here when it was so clamorous and partisan.


But you are right, look at the abuse Ann got when she stuck up for Depp, then she got angry and fed the trolls


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 5, 2022)

Red Cat said:


> I think you're talking around the case because you haven't watched it.


Maybe but then how much of it do you need to watch? It surely needs to be the whole thing to not risk cherry picking. 

I also don’t think it’s a bad thing to have more wide angle views alongside the narrow focus, but as it’s going the way of the latter that’s cool, I’ll just step back again.


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Maybe but then how much of it do you need to watch? It surely needs to be the whole thing to not risk cherry picking.
> 
> I also don’t think it’s a bad thing to have more wide angle views alongside the narrow focus, but as it’s going the way of the latter that’s cool, I’ll just step back again.



Why step back though? If your view is valid - as you say wide angle is also good - then why not share it.


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

story said:


> As I said, Swoop brings her own context and opinion to bear. I’m not offering it as unbiased reporting. But she seems to me to be thoughtful and considered.
> 
> As for body language, while it is, as I said, not science, we all, every one of us, use it to some extent in our own interactions and it informs our own conscious or unconscious conclusions. I’ve been looking at videos that break down JD’s body language more even than AH’s , because I’ve found hers to be so comic book villain, almost like pantomime charicature. I’ve tried to find something to balance my own reading of her.




Having watched the Swoop video...
I think Heards responses are very abnormal.. ...not just "guilty"...they're very odd. At one stage she started eating something while being asked very serious questions. It just doesn't seem real. Its as if she is trying to disassociate or something?

It's nearly as if she has some real difficulties with social cues too. Watching her .. she doesn't react the way we expect. 

Her need to not be abandoned seems to be overwhelmingly strong and she definitely controlled or attempted to control JD.

It's quite a mess. They both should have gone to couples and individual therapy. I'm not a psychiatrist but AH does come across as very unstable and in need of help. Not to excuse her behaviour towards JD but she does seem to have instigated arguments? Demanding JD do things and then getting into a loop of arguing with him. Communication is taking a backseat to high emotions. In the recordings she seems to be very emotionally driven. To the detriment of understanding or even acknowledhing that JD is offering/ seeking some space. 

JD is clearly well able to control himself in court. Maybe he should have taken a massive step away from the relationship. .but he had his own demons with drink drugs etc ..

Nothing about their relationship looks like "normal ".
But someone must have seen this trainwreck coming. Its sad that nobody seems to have stepped in to advise them to get help.

After watching some more videos...I just cant call the truth. 
I think the UK verdict was correct. JD hit AH.  But AH caused a hell of a lot of fighting and the cogarette burned on his face...is despicable.

Was she reliving past abuse and afraid JD would abandon her? Possibly. She does seem to have had a rough time pre JD.

I hope they both get help. And that they can live their lives now. But I suspect AH will not find it very easy and will need help with her mh. JD will too.


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 5, 2022)

story said:


> Why step back though? If your view is valid - as you say wide angle is also good - then why not share it.


Tbf I think I’ve said most of what’s in my head right now. I’ll come back if I have any new hot takes 

I will be upfront that even if I deliberately was trying to not publicly make assumptions and judgements based on the snippets I was getting from both “sides” (I  have since found what seemed to be a pretty good run down of the main evidence from both perspectives), I have of course noticed them in my own head and have felt I’ve needed to challenge some. 

I think for now I’m mainly left hoping that, again in the wider context, that this doesn’t lead to the further stigmatising of people with Borderline Personality Disorder.


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

While I was trapped in extreme distress my drinking went up to alcoholic levels. I also relied on drugs more, and in a more unstable way, than at any other time in my life.

Not to excuse drug addled behaviour or problems arising from addiction but it strikes me that Depp may have been using drugs and alcohol in a similar way.


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin  what makes you think they weren't having therapy?


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Tbf I think I’ve said most of what’s in my head right now. I’ll come back if I have any new hot takes
> 
> I will be upfront that even if I deliberately was trying to not publicly make assumptions and judgements based on the snippets I was getting from both “sides” (I  have since found what seemed to be a pretty good run down of the main evidence from both perspectives), I have of course noticed them in my own head and have felt I’ve needed to challenge some.
> 
> I think for now I’m mainly left hoping that, again in the wider context, that this doesn’t lead to the further stigmatising of people with Borderline Personality Disorder.


And people with Histrionic Personality Disorder. And people with PTSD.


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Tbf I think I’ve said most of what’s in my head right now. I’ll come back if I have any new hot takes
> 
> I will be upfront that even if I deliberately was trying to not publicly make assumptions and judgements based on the snippets I was getting from both “sides” (I  have since found what seemed to be a pretty good run down of the main evidence from both perspectives), I have of course noticed them in my own head and have felt I’ve needed to challenge some.
> 
> I think for now I’m mainly left hoping that, again in the wider context, that this doesn’t lead to the further stigmatising of people with Borderline Personality Disorder.



It‘s never good to stigmatise those with MH issues.

One of the good things I see on YouTube is content makers with diagnosed disorders embracing their full whole selves and demonstrating that you can be kind, decent, creative, industrious, successful, confident, with plenty of good social relationships etc and so forth despite having those diagnoses. Given that youngsters get a lot of their social cues from places like YouTube these days, I think this stigma bullshit will look very old fashioned quite soon.


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

cesare said:


> Aladdin  what makes you think they weren't having therapy?




They saw a psychotherapist towards the end of their marriage who stated that they were mutually abusive.. 

Maybe if they had startes therapy much earlier things might've been better? 

I dont know all the ins & outs.


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> They saw a psychotherapist towards the end of their marriage who stated that they were mutually abusive..
> 
> Maybe if they had startes therapy much earlier things might've been better?
> 
> I dont know all the ins & outs.


AH (for example) has been having therapy for years. They've also had couples therapy. They've also had nurses looking after them as well as other medics.


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 5, 2022)

cesare said:


> And people with Histrionic Personality Disorder. And people with PTSD.


Absolutely but BPD is already really, really stigmatised, way more than PTSD in my experience. HPD would probably be more stigmatised in the public eye if it was more well known. Also I’m not sure if people with HPD often come to the attention of physical and mental health service quite to the degree that people with BPD do.

And it’s also not very well understood. There is a push to have BPD recognised more as Complex PTSD, and also suggestions that at least part of the presentation may be linked to how Autism and Pathological Demand Avoidance tends to present in undiagnosed young women. It’s been accused of being a diagnostic dumping ground for some time and also previously seen as “untreatable”.

Basically I have more concerned feelings of how the understanding of BPD could be shaped by this trial than the other two.


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

cesare said:


> AH (for example) has been having therapy for years. They've also had couples therapy. They've also had nurses looking after them as well as other medics.




Ah ok.. I didnt know.this. thanks 

Its all the more sad then that they ended up in court, having the world poke at them.  Its extremely sad that there was no other way open to them to try to resolve things. 
I cant see JD feeling good about "winning" this. And AH is pretty much destroyed in every way. She will need so much help now just to not end up shattered as a human being.


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> They saw a psychotherapist towards the end of their marriage who stated that they were mutually abusive..
> 
> Maybe if they had startes therapy much earlier things might've been better?
> 
> I dont know all the ins & outs.


Tbf it’s often a no no to offer couple therapy when there is existing abuse. I know a very skilled family therapist who offered it but it was in a very specific context with a lot of external support structures. 

Basically the concern is the therapy can worsen the abuse. 

Oops I’m still here


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## Clair De Lune (Jun 5, 2022)

My personal take is that JD won because he's a better actor. 
He remained aware of the cameras the whole time he was in court as well as entering and leaving court. He is more charming, funny and presents more emotionally stable, calm and confident. He is as a result, much more likeable than AH (and has more fans) and he and his legal team were fully aware of those facts. The cult of celebrity and personality, both of which rely heavily on mainstream public opinion and beliefs around 'how good people present' which are in turn heavily influenced by patriarchal standards, gender roles and expectations. 

He played the role of a confident, collected, amused man who would get off with this. His legal team were equally sure of themselves. 
Filming it all was key. He knew AH would not come over well having her every move and facial expression scrutinised. And he was right.

I'm not even going to comment on guilt etc as tbh we weren't there and in trials of personality and celebrity like this...it's meaningless.


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

His texts to friends were pretty nasty.



			https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/01/amber-heard-johnny-depp-trial-metoo-backlash
		

"In text messages to friends, Johnny Depp fantasized about murdering his then-wife, the actress Amber Heard. “I will fuck her burnt corpse afterwards to make sure she’s dead,” Depp wrote. In other texts, he disparaged his wife’s body in luridly misogynist terms. “Mushy pointless dangling overused floppy fish market,” he called her."


Not sure that side of JD was shown to full effect in the trial. I mean that's really nasty stuff.
There's no doubt JD kept his act together in court. You would think he was a total gentleman.
Just shows how good an actor he is.


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> His texts to friends were pretty nasty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes AH's lawyers absolutely made sure everyone knew how awful those texts about her were. But the defamation was about physical and sexual abuse, and obv the jurors preferred his evidence. And preferred hers in one count against Adam Waldman.


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## D'wards (Jun 5, 2022)

I wonder what Depp's financial situation is like.
From what I understand his levels of splashing the cash make Elton look like a spendthrift. 

Since all this has been going on he has hardly worked, and certainly not since the UK trial.

I think he's one of those rich people who has bought so much and employ so many people they need to earn a shocking amount to keep it all rolling. 
He has an island for gawd's sake. He used to have a fully manned yacht but sold it to JK Rowling. 
He reportedly spent $200k a month on wine. That's a lot of Zinfandel. 

He's gonna have to start doing Hollywood blockbusters again or radically downsize


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## D'wards (Jun 5, 2022)

D'wards said:


> I wonder what Depp's financial situation is like.
> From what I understand his levels of splashing the cash make Elton look like a spendthrift.
> 
> Since all this has been going on he has hardly worked, and certainly not since the UK trial.
> ...


Sorry just fact checked myself - its a mere $30k a month on wine. 
$200k was on his private jet


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Having watched the Swoop video...
> I think Heards responses are very abnormal.. ...not just "guilty"...they're very odd. At one stage she started eating something while being asked very serious questions. It just doesn't seem real. Its as if she is trying to disassociate or something?
> 
> It's nearly as if she has some real difficulties with social cues too. Watching her .. she doesn't react the way we expect.
> ...




Not arguing with the main thrust of your post but I'm going to counter two of your points because they seem to come from not understanding the dynamics of abusive relationships.

You suggest that Depp should have taken a huge step back. Regardless of who the main instigator is or where the balance of power lies, this is hugely massively monumentally difficult for both the abuser and their victim. And it's more difficult for the victim than for the abuser.

Second, people outside often find it fantastically difficult to intervene and even if they do manage to somehow get a word in, it's still incredibly unlikely that it would make a material difference.

This is one if the most tricky aspects of abusive relationships: once they're up and running they're like a perpetual motion machine and it needs to be broken and dismantled in order to stop.


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> They saw a psychotherapist towards the end of their marriage who stated that they were mutually abusive..
> 
> Maybe if they had startes therapy much earlier things might've been better?
> 
> I dont know all the ins & outs.




....bearing in mind that the term "mutual.abuse" is really problematic.


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> His texts to friends were pretty nasty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I confess to ugly murderous fantasies that now appall me. The vengeful fantasies I shared with friends were lurid and grotesque. Even as I was saying them, to an audience of horrified awkward laughter, I was aware and ashamed of how corrupted I had become by what was being done to me.

ETA
It was gallows humour. It was an effort to find some sense of autonomy, agency.


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

Thanks for explaining and sharing story .


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Thanks for explaining and sharing story .



I'm not saying he's not a vile arsehole. I'm saying that my reading of those texts is coloured by my own experience of using similar language as a coping mechanism.


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## ElizabethofYork (Jun 5, 2022)

Clair De Lune said:


> My personal take is that JD won because he's a better actor.
> He remained aware of the cameras the whole time he was in court as well as entering and leaving court. He is more charming, funny and presents more emotionally stable, calm and confident. He is as a result, much more likeable than AH (and has more fans) and he and his legal team were fully aware of those facts. The cult of celebrity and personality, both of which rely heavily on mainstream public opinion and beliefs around 'how good people present' which are in turn heavily influenced by patriarchal standards, gender roles and expectations.
> 
> He played the role of a confident, collected, amused man who would get off with this. His legal team were equally sure of themselves.
> ...


It was down to the evidence in the end, not the performances in court.


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## story (Jun 5, 2022)

D'wards said:


> I wonder what Depp's financial situation is like.
> From what I understand his levels of splashing the cash make Elton look like a spendthrift.
> 
> Since all this has been going on he has hardly worked, and certainly not since the UK trial.
> ...




If it's true that he has now finally gotten out of an abusive trap he's probably going to want to keep things as simple and as safe as possible. It takes a long time to recover from an abusive relationship.

Chances are that it's only now that he can feel some sense of validation that he'll start feeling like the whole thing is behind him.

In terms of safety I'm more worried about her. I think she must be a truly terrible place right now. I hope she has good kind sensible people around her.


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## Red Cat (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Maybe but then how much of it do you need to watch? It surely needs to be the whole thing to not risk cherry picking.
> 
> I also don’t think it’s a bad thing to have more wide angle views alongside the narrow focus, but as it’s going the way of the latter that’s cool, I’ll just step back again.



I think we're all able to zoom in and out. But in a trial, the evidence is what is presented in that trial.


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## TopCat (Jun 5, 2022)

cesare said:


> And people with Histrionic Personality Disorder. And people with PTSD.


Plus people who like taking drink and drugs.


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Absolutely but BPD is already really, really stigmatised, way more than PTSD in my experience. HPD would probably be more stigmatised in the public eye if it was more well known. Also I’m not sure if people with HPD often come to the attention of physical and mental health service quite to the degree that people with BPD do.
> 
> And it’s also not very well understood. There is a push to have BPD recognised more as Complex PTSD, and also suggestions that at least part of the presentation may be linked to how Autism and Pathological Demand Avoidance tends to present in undiagnosed young women. It’s been accused of being a diagnostic dumping ground for some time and also previously seen as “untreatable”.
> 
> Basically I have more concerned feelings of how the understanding of BPD could be shaped by this trial than the other two.


Thanks for taking the time to explain your views on this. It also signalled the BPD v complex PTSD debate which is very interesting (to me). I found this video a good short summary of the various views:


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

There seems to have been suppression of evidence that has been entered into the Uk case? 

I wonder how they got away with that..


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Plus people who like taking drink and drugs.


Yes not all drinkers and drug takers are abusive.  Some people like to party and some people use them to cope/self medicate.


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

Clair De Lune said:


> He played the role of a confident, collected, amused man who would get off with this. His legal team were equally sure of themselves.
> Filming it all was key. He knew AH would not come over well having her every move and facial expression scrutinised. And he was right.


I agree he came across as more believable from the bits I've watched (I'm aware they're sped up though) but to me he didn't seem confident at all, he looked like a wreck during parts of it.


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## Athos (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> There seems to have been suppression of evidence that has been entered into the Uk case?
> 
> I wonder how they got away with that..


What do you mean?  What evidence?


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> There seems to have been suppression of evidence that has been entered into the Uk case?
> 
> I wonder how they got away with that./






Aladdin said:


> You’d have to watch the Judge’s ruling on evidence on both sides to find out.


Bloody formatting!


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

Athos said:


> What do you mean?  What evidence?




Only going on whats been reported..


			https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/01/amber-heard-johnny-depp-trial-metoo-backlash
		



Eta sorry  that's the wrong quote. I've corrected this further on in this thread.


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

I'm also going to have to stop posting for a bit, finding this all quite upsetting tbh


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

Yes..well ...I has assumed all evidence has been presented?


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

I'm out  too.


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Only going on whats been reported..
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/01/amber-heard-johnny-depp-trial-metoo-backlash


I’m not going to read an article where the title includes that the trial was an orgy of misogyny.


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## TopCat (Jun 5, 2022)

cesare said:


> I’m not going to read an article where the title includes that the trial was an orgy of misogyny.


Some people take an ideological view to these matters and try and shift the focus from the evidence to somewhere else that they prefer. This has become increasingly hard to do regarding this case as the evidence is quite clear that AH was repeatedly lying. 

This was/is a typical take with that stance. 

"When we have a society that experiences a gender power imbalance, we are going to see that reflected in the way people of certain genders are treated. And we do, all the time. The only way to truly combat abuse is to recognise that most of the time it stems from misogyny – and that rooting out such attitudes everywhere they are found is crucial. "









						Myth four: ‘abuse has no gender’
					

While it is certainly true that women can be abusers and that men can be victims of abuse (at the hands of women), saying that ‘abuse has no gender’ is problematic.  We know that over 90% of d…




					thisviolenceisnotatragedy.com


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## Athos (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Only going on whats been reported..
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/01/amber-heard-johnny-depp-trial-metoo-backlash


 I might be missing something, but I can't see where that article says anything about the suppression of evidence?


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

Athos said:


> I might be missing something, but I can't see where that article says anything about the suppression of evidence?




Sorry  wrong article.  I had the orher one open at the same time.









						Amber Heard lawyer says ‘enormous amount of evidence suppressed’ in Johnny Depp trial
					

Attorney Elaine Bredehoft says verdict sends a ‘horrible message’ to survivors of domestic abuse




					www.google.com
				




This is the one

Dont tag me back in. I'm out.


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## ElizabethofYork (Jun 5, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Only going on whats been reported..
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/01/amber-heard-johnny-depp-trial-metoo-backlash


Didn't see anything there about evidence being suppressed?


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## Athos (Jun 5, 2022)

It seems the "supressed evidence" (her lawyer's characterisation) is actually some medical records which were excluded for being hearsay. They consist of near-contemporaneous reports of physical abuse, made by Heard to her psychotherapist. Presumably they're lining up an appeal on the grounds that the judge erred, and that material should've been admissible under the 'present sense impression', 'excited utterance', 'then existing condition', and/or 'treatment/diagnosis' exceptions.


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## Red Cat (Jun 5, 2022)

D'wards said:


> I think this has been an interesting discussion.
> A lot of participants just went with the party line that women don't lie about abuse from men amongst certain political persuasions and sent Depp to the gallows.
> Now you've actually looked into the evidence some of ya'll have had a rethink.
> 
> That's a plus, shows people are willing to examine their own views rather than doggedly stick to something cos its the ideological thing to do



Actually, I didn't have that view and I didn't state it here.


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## Aladdin (Jun 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Didn't see anything there about evidence being suppressed?




As already explained.
I posted the wrong article.

See the post #1113 for the article about evidence that was not allowed yet was allowed in the UK court case

And more


			https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2022/06/02/amber-heard-appeal-johnny-depp-trial/
		


Just want to be out of this thread...Its on ignore so not tagging..thanks..


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## Rob Ray (Jun 5, 2022)

Very few (if any?) people have taken a view here that AH is a good person, and most people have been careful, even when sceptical of Depp as being an unadorned victim, not to get heavily into the he-said she-said of the (multiple week, in which it is basically impossible for someone who wasn't at the trial to have a full overview of events) trial itself.

Various people criticised D'Wards for being a patronising Depp partisan who wasn't really listening to the points people were making about the way the trial had been handled and its impact on public discourse though. Now the conversation's moved on they think they've "won" and are bragging about it, which itself says quite a lot about their attitude to the whole thing.


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

Athos said:


> It seems the "supressed evidence" (her lawyer's characterisation) is actually some medical records which were excluded for being hearsay. They consist of near-contemporaneous reports of physical abuse, made by Heard to her psychotherapist. Presumably they're lining up an appeal on the grounds that the judge erred, and that material should've been admissible under the 'present sense impression', 'excited utterance', 'then existing condition', and/or 'treatment/diagnosis' exceptions.


I understand they also excluded the UK case as it was between different parties, and much of the evidence hadn’t been disclosed in the UK/no real examination. That’s just reported though, I didn’t watch that bit.


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## Clair De Lune (Jun 5, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I agree he came across as more believable from the bits I've watched (I'm aware they're sped up though) but to me he didn't seem confident at all, he looked like a wreck during parts of it.


Fair. I've certainly not watched as much as a lot of you seem to have.


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## Athos (Jun 5, 2022)

cesare said:


> I understand they also excluded the UK case as it was between different parties, and much of the evidence hadn’t been disclosed in the UK/no real examination. That’s just reported though, I didn’t watch that bit.


Yes, although it's unclear what they really mean.  It seems they're suggesting they ought to have been allowed to tell the jury the verdict in the English Court, but that'd have been very odd since that verdict was based (in part) on evidence that would be inadmissible in the US (and, incidentally, upon a proven lie she told in those proceedings i.e. that she'd donated the divorce settlement to charity).


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

Another thing I didn't know about was that AH was arrested for hitting her girlfriend in 2009 - the police officer who made the arrest said that she saw an assault happen. Amber Heard arrested in 2009 on charge of hitting girlfriend

For me that does change things quite a bit and also shows that violence in same gender relationships isn't taken as seriously. At the very least it raises questions as to why she was being seen as a domestic violence advocate and writing about this for various newspapers etc.

I know I said I wouldn't post about this again but I felt pretty upset reading that and have been quite upset thinking about this trial for so many reasons


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## 8ball (Jun 5, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Another thing I didn't know about was that AH was arrested for hitting her girlfriend in 2009 - the police officer who made the arrest said that she saw an assault happen. Amber Heard arrested in 2009 on charge of hitting girlfriend
> 
> For me that does change things quite a bit and also shows that violence in same gender relationships isn't taken as seriously. At the very least it raises questions as to why she was being seen as a domestic violence advocate and writing about this for various newspapers etc.
> 
> I know I said I wouldn't post about this again but I felt pretty upset reading that



I mentioned it in passing earlier, but I don’t think I mentioned anything about gender.

Edit: reading back to check, not sure whether I just meant to mention and didn’t, or maybe I deleted part of a post.  Anyway, can’t find it… 

Edit2: scratch that, I found it - post #814


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

8ball said:


> I mentioned it in passing earlier, but I don’t think I mentioned anything about gender.
> 
> Edit: reading back to check, not sure whether I just meant to mention and didn’t, or maybe I deleted part of a post.  Anyway, can’t find it…
> 
> Edit2: scratch that, I found it - post #814


Ok I haven't read the whole of the thread


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## 8ball (Jun 5, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Ok I haven't read the whole of the thread



It was after you’d joined the thread but I was replying to Sue so fair enough.


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## cesare (Jun 5, 2022)

I mentioned it too but didn't say much about it, the charges were dropped very quickly.  I watched what Beverley Lloyd had to say about the nature of the violence leading to the arrest, she was credible. I've also read that AH said the whole arrest situation was due to homophobia, but apparently Beverly Lloyd (edit not sure if that's the police officers name, apologies) is a lesbian. I've not checked any of that, though.


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

8ball said:


> It was after you’d joined the thread but I was replying to Sue so fair enough.


Maybe, to be honest my memory is shit


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## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2022)

.


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## Athos (Jun 5, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah, at the very least it raises questions as to how the decision was made to give her such a big platform having previously been subject to the same allegations. I'm not even saying the decision was wrong or that someone who has been accused of DV shouldn't be able to write about it but it does seem strange.


I don't think it was widely known  (she alleged it was only made public by Depp's team after her allegations against him).


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## D'wards (Jun 6, 2022)

Amber Heard-Johnny Depp trial does not undermine the #MeToo movement | Letters
					

Letters: Nicole Smith, Sally Collins, Pattie Friend and Deana Heath on the potential ramifications of the celebrity courtroom drama




					www.theguardian.com


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