# Plaid Cymru's Image Change



## chilango (Feb 24, 2006)

I just read on the BBC that Plaid Cymru are changing their name to just "plaid" dropping the triban as their logo for a poppy and changing their colour to yellow.

wtf?


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## King Biscuit Time (Feb 24, 2006)

I saw that too - Couldn't see the point - seems a bit half arsed.

Isn't 'Plaid' a bit of a Ronseal-style name - Would you vote for 'Party'!?

Whats with the poppy too - anyone know?


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## jannerboyuk (Feb 24, 2006)

King Biscuit Time said:
			
		

> I saw that too - Couldn't see the point - seems a bit half arsed.
> 
> Isn't 'Plaid' a bit of a Ronseal-style name - Would you vote for 'Party'!?
> 
> Whats with the poppy too - anyone know?


Thats the weird thing. The only thing that i connect the poppy with is either the red one for remembering the war and the white one to put a pacifist spin on that. Never seen any other use of the poppy in something political and certainly nothing to relate it specifically to wales. I can see why they've tried to avoid anything too cliche but still a bit strange. I wondered how much they paid some advertising agency to come up with this. Doesn't seem to have been the culmination of a democratic consultation with the membership either.


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## Dai Sheep (Feb 24, 2006)

I like it, It looks nice enough - just not very Welsh. Lib dems and SNP are already yellow though, so i think they should have kept the green.

apparently it's the first party to have a sonic logo. you can hear it when you enter the website.

http://www.plaidcymru.org/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4744956.stm


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## chilango (Feb 24, 2006)

Dai Sheep said:
			
		

> I like it, It looks nice enough - just not very Welsh. Lib dems and SNP are already yellow though, so i think they should have kept the green.
> 
> apparently it's the first party to have a sonic logo. you can hear it when you enter the website.
> 
> ...




Ych a fi.

Its blydi ´orrible.

I spose it looks a bit like a daffodil, but also a bit like the BP logo.

Will these changes see a split in the party?


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## ZIZI (Feb 24, 2006)

The poppy reminds me of the BP thing.

Plaid-Ymlaen-Forward.

That is too much like Cymru Ymlaen.

Sorry Chilango, can see you think the same. (BP Logo)


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## Dai Sheep (Feb 24, 2006)

chilango said:
			
		

> , but also a bit like the BP logo.



I thought it looked familiar  

I think it's OK. Although I preferred the triban logo myself.


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## ddraig (Feb 25, 2006)

who comes up with this shit! seriously   
dropping the colours and 'Cymru'   

anyone see the political broadcast? - schoolkid stuff


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## colacho (Feb 25, 2006)

A kid let loose with a spirograph and no colours other than shades of yellow! It's total bollocks! Bit like Plaid itself, then- and to think I used to help my mother address envelopes for these fuckers back in the 60s (mind you, I was only 7)...


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## lewislewis (Feb 25, 2006)

Mixed reactions to this...

I think its too soft, it seems to be aiming to bring Plaid Cymru in line with the SNP. I don't think its particularly a good idea and i'll need some time to get used to it.

The party's name has not changed, but 'Plaid' is being officially recognised as the short form of our name, which remains Plaid Cymru- The Party of Wales.

These changes mean nothing unless there is real change in the party's policies. We'll have to wait and see.


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## Karac (Feb 25, 2006)

Itsa bum change

I remember seeing something about this a few months ago.
Apparently an image company was employed and they came to the conclusion after much money that-
"If Plaid Cymru change their image from green mountains to a yellow poppy they will win 0.1% more votes"

So they went for it.


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## 8ball (Feb 25, 2006)

That's bizarre.

Is that a 0.1% increase on their current vote (negligible) or an increase of 0.1% of the total vote (200% increase?).   

If they changed their image from 'anachronistic mythology-led anus-gazers' to some kind of viable alternative to New Labour I'm sure they'd win a lot more than 0.1%.


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## Karac (Feb 25, 2006)

If you could name me a viable alternative to Plaid Cymru id be extremely interested.


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## 8ball (Feb 25, 2006)

Do you mean a 'viable alternative to New Labour in Wales that isn't Plaid Cymru' or a 'viable alternative to Plaid Cymru' (which would be Labour - being the only show in town judging by the last election results).

If you meant the former, then you're right, there isn't one.

'Tis a bummer . . .


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## nwnm (Feb 26, 2006)

"Thats the weird thing. The only thing that i connect the poppy with is either the red one for remembering the war and the white one to put a pacifist spin on that."

Aren't poppies where opium comes from? Maybe thats why they just want to be known as 'Party' - thats all they wanna do! I can see it all now, Adam Price with a rolled up fiver in each nostril chanting "who needs Karl Marx whan you can 'ave charlie" and "I get a kick from cocaine". the 'party' people unvailing a new cheap drugs policy; the "Scag the Drag" campaign.

Followed by a lurch to the lysergic left as they follow in the wake of the White Panthers and issue a manifesto calling for free drugs rock'n'roll and fucking in the streets....

(If this really happens I want 'observer' passes to all your conferences....)


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## King Biscuit Time (Feb 26, 2006)

It's so clearly a daffodil innit.

Why don't they say its a daffodil? That would make more sense.


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## Redstar (Feb 26, 2006)

Yellow as a colour totally sums up the spirit of Plaid Cymru. Ieuan Wynge Jones was quoted as saying it was a refreshing exercise "like going out and buying a new suit."

 Well the last time I bought a new suit was 3 years ago - and I still didn't get the bloody job.


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## Col_Buendia (Feb 26, 2006)

How does reducing the name to just Plaid work for Welsh speakers, I wonder. Would it mean that (in Welsh) you would have to call them "the Party party"? Or would it lead to an undue emphasis on the definite article, e.g. *The* Party, to distinguish them from any other passing party... it all starts to sound a bit Orwellian, to my tender, non-Welsh understanding ears, but being *The* Party in their language of choice seems spooky.

_<This insight was brought to you by two native speakers of English. Don't say we don't care.>_


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## niclas (Feb 27, 2006)

Col_Buendia said:
			
		

> How does reducing the name to just Plaid work for Welsh speakers, I wonder. Would it mean that (in Welsh) you would have to call them "the Party party"? Or would it lead to an undue emphasis on the definite article, e.g. *The* Party, to distinguish them from any other passing party... it all starts to sound a bit Orwellian, to my tender, non-Welsh understanding ears, but being *The* Party in their language of choice seems spooky.
> 
> 
> The truth is that most people (in both languages) call it "Plaid", just like the Conservatives are known as Tories. The Welsh poppy (there is a distinctive Welsh poppy that's yellow apparently) is probably an attempt to get away from the leeks/daffodils/singing shite.
> ...


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## Col_Buendia (Feb 27, 2006)

niclas said:
			
		

> Having just watched the party political, I think it was a good effort to address some of the misconceptions about Plaid. Interesting that Adam Price made it very clear they were the Welsh Socialist Party.



So, no alliances with the Tories, then, to get Labour out?


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## King Biscuit Time (Feb 27, 2006)

niclas said:
			
		

> The Welsh poppy (there is a distinctive Welsh poppy that's yellow apparently) is probably an attempt to get away from the leeks/daffodils/singing shite.



So there is _Meconopsis Cambrica_


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## niclas (Feb 27, 2006)

Col_Buendia said:
			
		

> So, no alliances with the Tories, then, to get Labour out?



Last I heard, a couple of old guard people (Cynog Dafis being one) were pushing this line but the National Council knocked it on the head. So, no deals with the Tories.


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## Col_Buendia (Feb 27, 2006)

King Biscuit Time said:
			
		

> So there is _Meconopsis Cambrica_



If it looks like a daffodil, walks like a daffodil, and quacks like a daffodil, then it's a daffodil.


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## lewislewis (Feb 27, 2006)

I've now come to terms with the logo change and quite like it.

The explicit use of the word socialist is very welcome too! No other party in Wales is pinning its colours to the mast, they shirk from the word 'socialism' as if embarassed at what it entails.


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## jannerboyuk (Feb 27, 2006)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> I've now come to terms with the logo change and quite like it.


Bloody hell the re-education programme is bloody fast!


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## nwnm (Feb 28, 2006)

its not re-education! they just supply some really good gear m-a-a-a-n


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## neprimerimye (Feb 28, 2006)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> The explicit use of the word socialist is very welcome too! No other party in Wales is pinning its colours to the mast, they shirk from the word 'socialism' as if embarassed at what it entails.



Both the Socialist Workers Party and Socialist Party openly describe themselves as socialist. Unlike Plaid they are not sponsored by capitalists.

Socialism means workers power or it means nothing. How workers power can be reconciled with sponsorship by the boss class is a curiousity I look forward to your explaining.


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## lewislewis (Feb 28, 2006)

neprimerimye said:
			
		

> Both the Socialist Workers Party and Socialist Party openly describe themselves as socialist. Unlike Plaid they are not sponsored by capitalists.
> 
> Socialism means workers power or it means nothing. How workers power can be reconciled with sponsorship by the boss class is a curiousity I look forward to your explaining.



I meant a proper political party, not a paper-selling outfit.

Edited to add- And obviously since the collapse of the USSR socialism is now understood by the majority of workers as being social democracy.


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## niclas (Feb 28, 2006)

neprimerimye said:
			
		

> Both the Socialist Workers Party and Socialist Party openly describe themselves as socialist. Unlike Plaid they are not sponsored by capitalists.
> 
> Socialism means workers power or it means nothing. How workers power can be reconciled with sponsorship by the boss class is a curiousity I look forward to your explaining.



Sponsored by capitalists? In what way? Tell me you haven't fallen into Udo's pernicious little trap.

Sponsorship means a company paying for something. Can you show that it gets money from any capitalist company? According to the last lot of accounts I saw from the Electoral Commission Plaid Cymru was getting fuck all of fuck all from the boss class.


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## nwnm (Feb 28, 2006)

"obviously since the collapse of the USSR socialism is now understood by the majority of workers as being social democracy."

Actually (and probably even before the collapse of the Russian empire) 'socialism' has been understood by workers as, to coin a phrase from an old Who song as "Meet the new boss.....the same as the old boss" - the trouble is, they don't automatically generate any political consciousness from this ritual of sell outs. As generations of people entered politics believing that they could ameliorate the worst effects of capitalism on behalf of their class, they turned into their own worst enemies. In merely fighting for change within the status quo, the system gradually changed them. Its hard now to believe 'that bastard' Peter Hain is the same person who once wrote a book about how he was framed by the police for example.(And before the collapse of stalinism there was a large Communist Party who would give left cover for such reformists/social democrats - reinforcing passivity)

Rosa Luxemgerg in "The Mass Strike" wrote how the struggle for reform within the system was  a 'labour of syssiphus'. This is the ancient greek myth where someone is constantly rolling a boulder up a hill only for it to roll down and having to start again. Only trouble is there are two major differences - 
1) Those rolling the boulder up the hill have decided to side with the boulder as they have accepted a neo liberal agenda; and the fucking thing threatens to crush us.
2) The dead hand of stalinism no longer holds sway over the labour movement. This is a double edged sword. on the one hand there isn't a network of stewards in workplaces able to generalise discontent (which the CP was able to do to an extent despite itself). But there is a more amorphous layer of working people who are inspired by the anti capitalist and anti war movements, who have the potential to give voice to more spontaneous explosions of discontent.

Yeah fight for reforms in the here and now - we all do. but you also need to have a vision of a better society free from tyranny. hence the existance of people who you dismiss as a mere 'paper selling exercise' like us. as another old 70's song goes "Won't you roll AWAY the stone?"


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## lewislewis (Mar 1, 2006)

Nwnm...most workers haven't ever read Trotsky. They see the Labour party (or social democratic Old Labour) as socialist.


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## nwnm (Mar 1, 2006)

"They see the Labour party (or social democratic Old Labour) as socialist" They used to yes - but how bad was the slump in turnout in elections recently? So much so that new labourites claim that nobody bothers to vote for them any more as they are so happy with their policies.... Theres another way of looking at this - disillusionment. The same thing that caused tory voters to stay away in droves; which is how Blair came to power in the first place. Turning apathy into action is the main problem (the pensions crisis may or may not be a detonator here, but needs engagement by those who consider themselves on the left)


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## lewislewis (Mar 2, 2006)

Oh I agree, but the people that don't vote aren't abstaining because the far-left is telling them to!


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## nwnm (Mar 3, 2006)

Correct! They are doing it because they don't see any alternative


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## editor (Sep 29, 2018)

It's an old thread but it seems the best place for this


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## 8ball (Sep 29, 2018)

Sion Actor is ... Myncfish!


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## planetgeli (Oct 5, 2018)

A small step in the right direction. 

(Yes i know legalisation trumps decriminalisation. Yes I know drugs policy is set from Westminster not Cardiff.)

Decriminalise drugs, Plaid Cymru says


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## DexterTCN (Oct 9, 2018)

You can join Plaid for free for the remainder of the year.

JOIN PLAID CYMRU FOR FREE


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## DexterTCN (Oct 10, 2018)

We've sent one of our lads down to give a hand.

Ex-SNP deputy Angus Robertson to lead Plaid Cymru overhaul in bid to boost Welsh independence hopes


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## planetgeli (Oct 10, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> We've sent one of our lads down to give a hand.
> 
> Ex-SNP deputy Angus Robertson to lead Plaid Cymru overhaul in bid to boost Welsh independence hopes



Cool. Failed SNP MP, who played a “key role in (failed) SNP bid for Scottish independence” comes to tell PC how to do things.

Job fucking done aye?


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## DexterTCN (Oct 10, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Cool. Failed SNP MP, who played a “key role in (failed) SNP bid for Scottish independence” comes to tell PC how to do things.
> 
> Job fucking done aye?


No the job is not done, not by a long shot.   You do the job if you choose to.  

Yes, we lost the first indy (against the might of the british state and media and corporations... by just over 5%) but we're stronger now and we have a lot more experience...we should win next time...and they know that still won't be the end of it.  You can do the same if it's what you want.   We'll support you if you want us to. 

No-one's forcing you either/any way or another way.  Just willing to lend a hand if that's what you or anyone else decides to do.  

Because fuck westminster and the corrupt ****s in it and around it and feeding off it and addicted to it and worshipping it  

They suck up everything from everyone, they don't give a fuck about you, me, your kids, your friends...they do not give a fuck.

If you can't tear it down, make it irrelevant, remove it as an influence.  Show that you can do much better without them.  

Have you seen what's happened up here?  You _want_ that stuff, you have to.  38% drop in crime, wage rises for nhs staff, free education/prescriptions, actively pro-immigration, we look after the old and the young and we don't have full powers.  11 years of limited power.  

You can probably do better than us.

If you want to.

/steps off soap-box


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