# Apple fanbois



## DrRingDing (Oct 1, 2012)

Now make the excuses.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 1, 2012)

Don't foxcon make everything from motherboards to android devices. It's part of a much wider problem and I'm not sure pointing the finger just at apple helps.


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 1, 2012)

That's the first excuse.

Next!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 1, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> That's the first excuse.
> 
> Next!


 
Fuck off...I don't own any apple devices. I assume the computer your posting from was hand spun from fair trade yoghurt?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 1, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> That's the first excuse.
> 
> Next!


 
It's hardly an excuse. It's a call to name and shame all the companies involved. It's more harmful to let some of them not feel the heat and carry on with their heads down, continuing to support the practices there, and just focus on one. Make posters for all of them. Let's have all their names.


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 1, 2012)

Don't get so touchy.

Next excuse plz!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 1, 2012)

Well these are start

Acer Inc. 
Amazon.com 
Apple Inc. 
Cisco 
Dell 
Hewlett-Packard 
Intel 
Microsoft 
Motorola Mobility 
Nintendo 
Nokia 
Sony 
Toshiba


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

You've got to start somewhere, so why not start with the biggest, richest, _coolest_ tech company of the lot making the fattest, juiciest profits for themselves?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 1, 2012)

So what's your excuse, DrRingDing, for using any of those companies? NEXT.


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 1, 2012)

Vintage Paw said:


> So what's your excuse, DrRingDing, for using any of those companies? NEXT.


 
Calm down dear. It's just a thread about nihilistic fashion driven consumerism.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 1, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> Calm down dear. It's just a thread about nihilistic fashion driven consumerism.


 
Or trying to start yet another tedious bun fight. Which the tech forums are sadly plagued with.

The editor is here now. I expect the other ususal suspects will turn up soon.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Or trying to start yet another tedious bun fight. Which the tech forums are sadly plagued with.
> 
> The editor is here now. I expect the other ususal suspects will turn up soon.


No, I'm done. The fact is that Apple are the biggest, richest company of the lot and they're making more money than anyone else, so they're the obvious and logical target for campaigners in much the same way as Nike were singled out rather than some brand that most people haven't heard of. And that campaign had an impact.

People sit up and take notice when Apple are being talked about but who's going to be interested in Cisco's business ethics?


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 1, 2012)

Fuelling Apples coffers to look a bit trendy at the expense of depressingly exploited workers is fucking sick.


----------



## twentythreedom (Oct 1, 2012)

Fapple, lol*

*just thought of that one myself, but I doubt I'm the first tbh. Fapple


----------



## cesare (Oct 1, 2012)

Why did you wait two years to start this thread?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 1, 2012)

editor said:


> No, I'm done. The fact is that Apple are the biggest, richest company of the lot and they're making more money than anyone else, so they're the obvious and logical target for campaigners in much the same way as Nike were singled out rather than some brand that most people haven't heard of. And that campaign had an impact.
> 
> People sit up and take notice when Apple are being talked about but who's going to be interested in Cisco's business ethics?


 
Intresting you pick the only company on that list that probably isn't reconised by most people.



DrRingDing said:


> Fuelling Apples coffers to look a bit trendy at the expense of depressingly exploited workers is fucking sick.


 
It is for any company tbh. Sure lets have a conversation about our consumer culture and the crazy upgrade cycles of mobile phones, but framing it in terms of just Apple is a really really good way to make sure it's not going stay objective.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Intresting you pick the only company on that list that probably isn't reconised by most people.


You could pick any other company on that list and none of them attract as much media attention, column inches and hype as Apple. But then you knew that already.

They're also the company that is making *more money out of those factories than anyone else,* with some of their business practices exasperating the problems for their workers.

Throw in their traditionally appalling record on any kind of charitable giving and contrast it with their obscene levels of wealth and I'd still maintain that they're the obvious target for campaigners.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 1, 2012)

I got an ipad for my birthday. Not sure it makes me more or less evil than the clueless fanboys who think of apple a good company. Is it better, or worse to own an apple product than it is to go to dubai, take coke, or sleep with working girls? what about drinking regular coffee when you can afford fairtrade?

Ethical consumerism is pretty much a joke, imo. Impossible to buy stuff ethically in a capitalist world, when capitalism is a system which guarantees that whoever is making what you buy is either exploiting or being exploited.

So,.yes, campaign to have apple take a lead on fairer treatment for workers in the tech industry. But no, dont blame the fan boys, because sooner or later your own consumer choices will be shown to be just as bad.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

Jon-of-arc said:


> So,.yes, campaign to have apple take a lead on fairer treatment for workers in the tech industry. But no, dont blame the fan boys, because sooner or later your own consumer choices will be shown to be just as bad.


I guess that maybe it's the unashamed, near-hysterical levels of carefully orchestrated consumer glee and self congratulation that accompanies each Apple product launch that provides such a sharp focus between the haves and the have nots.

I'm not saying for one second that all Apple consumers act this way, but this is the image that the company wants to promote, and to get that high fiving "_look at what I just bought!_" queue in action, that means that workers in shitty factories end up being pushed even harder.


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

Those photos aren't from the UK, surely we've still got some dignity?


----------



## cesare (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> Those photos aren't from the UK, surely we've still got some dignity?


It's a troll thread, firks.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> Those photos aren't from the UK, surely we've still got some dignity?


Sadly not.








See the full horror from 2:20.


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

My troll-foo is weak since I turned 21


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

Why they cheering? Make it stop! I've had a enough. STOP! STOP!


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 1, 2012)

editor said:


> I guess that maybe it's the unashamed, near-hysterical levels of carefully orchestrated consumer glee and self congratulation that accompanies each Apple product launch that provides such a sharp focus between the haves and the have nots.
> 
> I'm not saying for one second that all Apple consumers act this way, but this is the image that the company wants to promote, and to get that high fiving "_look at what I just bought!_" queue in action, that means that workers in shitty factories end up being pushed even harder.



I mean, urrgghhh, what a bunch of twats.  They should be socially maligned for their ridiculous  "queueing for five days", corporation worshiping twatishness. No wonder apple is associated with the worst kind of hipster.

But when it comes to putting pressure on apple to sort their act the fuck out, via their "core" audience, guilt tripping the fanbotys as per the pic in the op will more likely alienate them than engage them. A boycott campaign would surely do better by educating consumers, instead of basically holding them accountable for all the wrongs of the targetted brand.


----------



## cesare (Oct 1, 2012)

Next news: Nike use child labour


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

cesare said:


> Next news: Nike use child labour


Yes. Let's quickly change the subject. Nice one.


----------



## cesare (Oct 1, 2012)

editor said:


> Yes. Let's quickly change the subject. Nice one.


I wouldn't want to change your favourite subject.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

cesare said:


> I wouldn't want to change your favourite subject.


No, I can see you're keen to move away from the topic seeing as you apparently can't post anywhere else.


----------



## cesare (Oct 1, 2012)

editor said:


> No, I can see you're keen to move away from the topic seeing as you apparently can't post anywhere else.


More apple angst, please.


----------



## twentythreedom (Oct 1, 2012)

Fapple ffs


----------



## elbows (Oct 1, 2012)

Apple has so many ingredients with which much can be made of. The conspicuous consumerism, the cult-like corporate image and control freakery, the silly profits and fawning press, the percentage of its fans that come across as punchable, its got it all.

Unfortunately a fair chunk of the criticism of Apple over moral issues tends to come across as being almost as superficial as the Apple fanboi consumerism. Perhaps its because one of the reasons Apple could be useful in highlighting some of the horrors of our world is that there is a lot of existing hate towards Apple that can be channeled. Unfortunately the extent to which this hate is driving outrage about the important issues can cause a problem, the wider principals at stake are not properly unlocked when people keep that beam of hate too narrowly focussed on certain apple ugliness.

So in that one sense I think Apple is an unhelpful example. I dont think all of the ugly phenomenon on the 'western side' of the Apple are lending themselves to a proper discussion about the woes in the east. When focussing on Apple then at a minimum you have to include many details of the industrial and economic picture and history of not just China but also Taiwan (Since Foxconn sprouted from Taiwan). Include its supply chains and competitors and countries like South Korea and Japans 'interesting' corporate-family histories must also be included. But in fact I seem to hear less about this stuff now than I would have 10 or more years ago, which seems all wrong in the age of the smartphone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 1, 2012)

Out of intrest if you wanted to boycot Apple and the other companies on the list, can anyone tell me which brands of laptops and phones are produced in a more ethical manner?


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Out of intrest if you wanted to boycot Apple and the other companies on the list, can anyone tell me which brands of laptops and phones are produced in a more ethical manner?


Not sure how up to date this is, but it may be useful. Asus seem to score very highly.
http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/buyersguides/computing/laptopsandnetbooks.aspx


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Oct 1, 2012)

editor said:


> ...


my one vaguely similar experience they were wearing a very different kind of blue and there wasn't any cheering involved but a fair amount of truncheoning.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 1, 2012)

Samsung & Panasonic have built for and supplied items for military use over the world, and are responsible for more deaths certainly than apple, and probably most of the companies that use foxconn put together.

Yet in the general tech forum, there is a thread asking for advice on TV's where samsung and panasonic are the only two recomendations, however not one person who berates apple for their choice of factory has spoken up against either of those two companies in that thread. Maybe we should start supplying feeding bags to go with their blinkers


----------



## sim667 (Oct 1, 2012)

Some interesting points here too......



> It’s not currently possible to purchase an ethical computer, smartphone, tablet, or other technology or consumer electronic product. Nevertheless, pressure from environmental and labour activists has resulting in some gains. Consumer boycotts of Apple will not result in change, though, if the result is simply to purchase the product of one of its competitors.


 


> Foxconn’s parent company Hon Hai has been building manufacturing capabilities in Vietnam. As well, it is investing heavily in automation, removing the need for even low-wage workers.


 


> (Some note that despite attention paid to suicide-attempts among Foxconn employees, their suicide rate is lower than China’s national average. And despite employee protests, Foxconn claims it continues to get ten applicants for every job opening).


 
http://www.zisman.ca/Articles/2012/CJTech09-2012.html

So, would it be better for foxconn to be mostly automated, meaning job losses for thousands upon thousands of people currently employed in their factories? Thats how it looks like it could go (and moving manufacturing to vietnam)


----------



## teuchter (Oct 1, 2012)

editor said:


> No, I'm done.


 
Might want to edit this out now.


----------



## IC3D (Oct 1, 2012)

I wonder how much an iphone would cost if it was made in the EU, I bet we'd have to rent them like TV's in the 70's


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Might want to edit this out now.


No thanks, but you might want to think about contributing something interesting for a change. Just a thought, like.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

IC3D said:


> I wonder how much an iphone would cost if it was made in the EU, I bet we'd have to rent them like TV's in the 70's


Apple could manufacture the iPhone in the US and still make juicy profits for themselves according to this report.


----------



## pesh (Oct 1, 2012)

to be fair, Samsung could supply their workers with chairs on their production lines and still make a juicy profit.

the main difference i can see between Apple and Samsung is Apple pay Foxconn to do their dirty work for them where as Samsung seem to own the majority of the factories where their workers rights are being violated with Foxconn helping out where needed.



> *Samsung:* "Almost all factories require most workers to work standing for the entirety of their shift, including during regular overtime shifts that last 11 to 12 hours," explains the report.
> *Foxconn: *Workers at Foxconn don't sit in chairs without backs, nor are they forced to stand, per a Marketplace report. But, the work has been described as dull. "It’s incredibly boring and repetitive," an iPad assembly line worker named Xu told Marketplace's Rob Schmitz.


 
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2012/09/these-samsung-factories-sound-bad-foxconn/56542/

report


----------



## Crispy (Oct 1, 2012)

*passive-aggressive sarcasm dressed in a flimsy disguise of light-hearted ribbing*

*pounces on error in post and extrapolates it to invalidate entire argument*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Don't foxcon make everything from motherboards to android devices. It's part of a much wider problem and I'm not sure pointing the finger just at apple helps.


 
Yup but that doesn't matter for your average froth at the mouth fandroid apple haterz...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2012)

cesare said:


> Next news: Nike use child labour


 
Next up: Samsung are arms dealers!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Samsung & Panasonic have built for and supplied items for military use over the world, and are responsible for more deaths certainly than apple, and probably most of the companies that use foxconn put together.
> 
> Yet in the general tech forum, there is a thread asking for advice on TV's where samsung and panasonic are the only two recomendations, however not one person who berates apple for their choice of factory has spoken up against either of those two companies in that thread. Maybe we should start supplying feeding bags to go with their blinkers


 
Well quite. That's the problem with urban75 tech forum.


----------



## paolo (Oct 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> *passive-aggressive sarcasm dressed in a flimsy disguise of light-hearted ribbing*
> 
> *pounces on error in post and extrapolates it to invalidate entire argument*



Other potential moves include:

- Reframe argument to make poster appear not to be considering the bigger picture.

- If poster has no other *visible* supporters, belittle poster as "banging on" about issue. This can also be used to suggest poster is obsessing with trivial detail.

- If poster does have other supporters, suggest it's ganging up. e.g. "iPincer"

There's a whole play book. 

And it gets used on more subjects than just Apple.


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2012)

paolo said:


> And it gets used on more subjects than just Apple.


Gosh. Does it really? How awful.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2012)

paolo said:


> Other potential moves include:
> 
> - Reframe argument to make poster appear not to be considering the bigger picture.
> 
> ...



Heh too true. Especially the underhanded re-frame and banging on points.


----------



## pesh (Oct 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Gosh. Does it really? How awful.


 
a base layer of 





Crispy said:


> *passive-aggressive sarcasm dressed in a flimsy disguise of light-hearted ribbing*


with just a drizzle of 





paolo said:


> - Reframe argument to make poster appear not to be considering the bigger picture.


 
6/10


----------



## pesh (Oct 2, 2012)

.


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2012)

Fabulous hypocrisy all round, as usual - complain about the posts but then keep picking at the scabs with personal digs day after day after day.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 2, 2012)

FTR, my post was very carefully not describing any particular poster. Well done everybody


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2012)

Crispy said:


> FTR, my post was very carefully not describing any particular poster. Well done everybody


Oh yes, weren't you a clever boy!

Keep on stirring!


----------



## pesh (Oct 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Fabulous hypocrisy all round, as usual - complain about the posts but then keep picking at the scabs with personal digs day after day after day.





editor said:


> No thanks, but you might want to think about contributing something interesting for a change. Just a thought, like.


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2012)

And what was my post in response to?

Jeez. If you want to come over as the smug cock at least make some fucking effort to construct a decent point.



Keep stirring!


----------



## Crispy (Oct 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Oh yes, weren't you a clever boy!


 
And you're a patronising twat. Are we even now?


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2012)

Crispy said:


> And you're a patronising twat. Are we even now?


Thread closed.


----------

