# Finsbury Park Terror Attack



## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2017)

breaking news just come through:

Vehicle hits pedestrians in Finsbury Park - BBC News



> One person arrested and "a number of casualties" as a vehicle hits pedestrians in Finsbury Park, London, police say



Jihadi bollocks or just everyday shit driving?


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## editor (Jun 19, 2017)

Fuck. Doesn't look too good: 



> Several pedestrians have been injured after being hit by a van in London.
> 
> Witnesses said the vehicle veered off the road into crowds outside Finsbury Park Mosque but it was unclear whether the collision was deliberate.
> 
> ...


Van hits pedestrians near Finsbury Park Mosque in London


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## toblerone3 (Jun 19, 2017)

Ramadan - lots of people gathering outside mosques.


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## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2017)

Given the timing (00:20 hrs) more likely to be a pissed idiot than terrorism, wouldn't be a busy time for a targeted attack.


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## editor (Jun 19, 2017)




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## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2017)

Ah shit, hadn't considered Ramadan. Could be secular, could be right wing loon.

Hope people are OK.


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## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Early reports is it drove into a crowd of people outside a mosque, arrested man was white.

Not that too much store should be put on anything at the point.


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## editor (Jun 19, 2017)

Van looks to have been driven from Pontyclun, south Wales.


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## editor (Jun 19, 2017)

Unverified Twitter footage says this was the driver.


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## 8den (Jun 19, 2017)

Also love his response to the Sun.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 19, 2017)

By now, folks really ought to know not to call this stuff too early. 

*IF *it turns out to be politically motivated then of course it should be called terrorism and the only reason not to do so would abject racism.


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## J Ed (Jun 19, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> By now, folks really ought to know not to call this stuff too early.
> 
> *IF *it turns out to be politically motivated then of course it should be called terrorism and the only reason not to do so would abject racism.



The way it is being reported makes me think there must be good reason to think it is a politically motivated attack against Muslims.


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## likesfish (Jun 19, 2017)

It sounds like the useless waste of space was a rubbish terrorist.
 the poor sods he hit were trying to do cpr on an old man who'd collapsed so the useless cunt may not even be able to claim a kill.
  not thats any excuse and deserves to rot in jail just makes him even more of a waste of space than he already was.


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## andysays (Jun 19, 2017)

BBC now reporting that one person has died


> A man has died and eight people have been injured after a van ploughed into pedestrians near a north London mosque.
> 
> The van mounted the pavement and struck a group of people just after midnight near Finsbury Park Mosque in Seven Sisters Road. A 48-year-old man has been arrested.
> 
> Prime Minister Theresa May said police were treating it "as a potential terrorist attack".


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## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2017)

Fuck, more bad news.  My thoughts are with the victims, their families, friends, and the community.

I hope it wasn't a terrorist attack, but it does sound like it from the eye witness reports.


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## Reiabuzz (Jun 19, 2017)

Not sure why May is still calling it a 'potential' terrorist attack. Of course it fucking is.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Finsbury Park mosque of course formerly well known for jihadis but rather differently composed now. So imagine driver thinking of auld abu hamza and his crew and instead struck a group of people caring for an auld man. Disgusting attack


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Reiabuzz said:


> Not sure why May is still calling it a 'potential' terrorist attack. Of course it fucking is.


Not sure why May's still listened to


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## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2017)

Met Police Statement:



> At this stage there are no reports of any persons having suffered any knife injuries. The driver of the van - a man aged 48 - was found detained by members of public at the scene and then arrested by police in connection with the incident. He has been taken to hospital as a precaution, and will be taken into custody once discharged. *He will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course.*



Here we fucking go.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Met Police Statement:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we fucking go.


The police are so predictable


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## J Ed (Jun 19, 2017)

Interview with the men who held the attacker down

https://video-cdn.buzzfeed.com/34418/mp4_1920X1080/1497836219


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## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

FFS. What am I waking up to? What kind of world is this?


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## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> FFS. What am I waking up to? What kind of world is this?



One where an eye for an eye leads to innocent people dying. A shit world is what it's turning out to be.


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## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

Here we fucking go.[/QUOTE]

Whats wrong with a MH assesment in circumstances like this? Do you think the police are in some way are trying to mitigate his crime?  Sociopathic rage and paranoid delusions arent uncommon with attacks like this, the recent attack in NY where the driver went the wrong way down time square plowing into pedestrians is a prime example of someone who was repetedly ignored by MH services, even after it was obvious he posed a danger due to recent violent and paranoid behaviour.


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## Reiabuzz (Jun 19, 2017)

editor said:


> Van looks to have been driven from Pontyclun, south Wales.


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## JuanTwoThree (Jun 19, 2017)

"At least half an hour". Even allowing for some inaccuracy it doesn't sound like a very rapid response


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## Reiabuzz (Jun 19, 2017)

They're saying on ITV that the guy was blowing kisses and giving victory signs from the back of the copper van. Classy.


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## Callie (Jun 19, 2017)

Fuckssake. Sounds like one of the perpetrators may have been dealt with by the public at the scene. Good.

What the fuck kind of idiots decide to attack people during Ramadan. Utter cretins. Do you think they have considered retaliation?


Pac man said:


> Here we fucking go.



Whats wrong with a MH assesment in circumstances like this? Do you think the police are in some way are trying to mitigate his crime?  Sociopathic rage and paranoid delusions arent uncommon with attacks like this, the recent attack in NY where the driver went the wrong way down time square plowing into pedestrians is a prime example of someone who was repetedly ignored by MH services, even after it was obvious he posed a danger due to recent violent and paranoid behaviour.[/QUOTE]

Possibly more than one person in the van? What is that then sociopathic rage ripple effect?

If the mental health excuse gets wheeled out and this is not dealt with as a terrorist attack it will divide people and make everything worse.


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## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

If the mental health excuse gets wheeled out and this is not dealt with as a terrorist attack it will divide people and make everything worse.[/QUOTE]

I dont see why he cant be mentally ill and a terrorist? Pepole ae allready divided, it cant get much worse. Wouldnt the fact that hes possibly, seriously mentally ill, not worsen things?


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## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

Callie said:


> Possibly more than one person in the van?.



Police are saying just the one suspect.

eta: perpetrator, not simply suspect.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Jun 19, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Police are saying just the one suspect.
> 
> eta: perpetrator, not simply suspect.



News reports are saying 2 others were in the van and ran away...


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## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> News reports are saying 2 others were in the van and ran away...



What channel you watching? Sky News about an hour ago said police confirmed only one.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Jun 19, 2017)

The Guardian is reporting that the Imam protected the van driver...

"I*mam 'protected van driver until police arrived'*
Witnesses have told Sky News that an imam from the mosque protected the driver of the van from angry members of the public until the police could arrive.
That account seems to chime with the statement from the Muslim Welfare House that thanks imam Mohammed Mahmoud “whose bravery and courage helped calm the immediate situation after the incident and prevented further injury and loss of life”."


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## Plumdaff (Jun 19, 2017)

You can be both mentally ill and a terrorist. You can have a mental illness and be legally fit to plead. One of the Lee Rigby killers is an example. There's little to read into this, they'd assess anyone arrested in a similar situation.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Jun 19, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> What channel you watching? Sky News about an hour ago said police confirmed only one.



 2 hrs ago on the Guardian website. Bottom of the page....witnesses reported 2 other men were in the van and fled the scene.

London attack: one dead in 'potential terrorist attack' near Finsbury Park mosque, PM says – live


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## joustmaster (Jun 19, 2017)




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## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> 2 hrs ago on the Guardian website. Bottom of the page....witnesses reported 2 other men were in the van and fled the scene.
> 
> London attack: one dead in 'potential terrorist attack' near Finsbury Park mosque, PM says – live



I think that was an early, inaccurate report. Telegraph reporting just one according to police.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> If the mental health excuse gets wheeled out and this is not dealt with as a terrorist attack it will divide people and make everything worse.



I dont see why he cant be mentally ill and a terrorist? Pepole ae allready divided, it cant get much worse. Wouldnt the fact that hes possibly, seriously mentally ill, not worsen things?[/QUOTE]further to other posts on the subject, if you don't understand right and wrong - the auld m'naghten rules - you can't go to prison - you're ill rather than bad


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## Sue (Jun 19, 2017)

Feels like London's pretty fucked at the moment with this, the Grenfell Tower fire, the London and Westminster Bridge attacks.

Maybe it's because I'm knackered with this heat and all but feels like we're just waiting for the next bad thing to happen.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Sue said:


> Feels like London's pretty fucked at the moment with this, the Grenfell Tower fire, the London and Westminster Bridge attacks.
> 
> Maybe it's because I'm knackered with this heat and all but feels like we're just waiting for the next bad thing to happen.


We are


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## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

if you don't understand right and wrong - the auld m'naghten rules - you can't go to prison - you're ill rather than bad[/QUOTE]

Yes but theres a difference between understanding right and wrong and being mentally ill..and if found seriously mentally ill it would no doubt be a secure unit, indefinatley.


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## Sue (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> We are


Guess we always are but it's palpable at the moment.


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## likesfish (Jun 19, 2017)

it hurts a certain narrative that theirs a a vast undercurrent of Islamophobia linked to extreme right wing views.
  rather than like Jo cox's killer that unpleasant  white nut jobs latch on to far right shit much like their opposite brown version swallow jihadist bullshit


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Yes but theres a difference between understanding right and wrong and being mentally ill..and if found seriously mentally ill it would no doubt be a secure unit, indefinatley.


Could you please sort out your quotes in posts.

Yes, obvs. but what is the difference, iyo?


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## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2017)

JuanTwoThree said:


> "At least half an hour". Even allowing for some inaccuracy it doesn't sound like a very rapid response



The BBC reported police attended in 'under 10 minutes, whereas a guy being interviewed on Sky says they took an hour to arrive - something isn't right here.

This guy is also saying there were 2 others in the van, that got away.

ETA: Sky is now saying the police have stated they arrived in under 10 minutes.


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## Yossarian (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> FFS. What am I waking up to? What kind of world is this?



The days when people were going on about 2016 being the "worst year ever" because of Bowie and Brexit seem like a very long time ago now.


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## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> You can be both mentally ill and a terrorist. You can have a mental illness and be legally fit to plead. One of the Lee Rigby killers is an example. There's little to read into this, they'd assess anyone arrested in a similar situation.



Have you seen it mentioned in a statement immediately after the arrest of a terror subject before? What did they say in the first statement after the arrest of Rigby's killers?

I'd also be very surprised if the suspect's family are all arrested and held for several days before being released and if doors of friends and acquaintances are kicked in today. Let's see.


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## JuanTwoThree (Jun 19, 2017)

The problem is the perception that what first occurs to the Met when it's a white person is " *He will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course" *as accurately predicted in the tweet mentioned by editor upthread. You might feel that their reaction to a brown person would be to prioritise finding out who he was working with, what the organisation was and so on. The narrative with white attackers seems to be to establish that they were working alone, and what their mental state was, as a similar priority.

I'm not saying, necessarily, that this is the case. It's bad even if it just seems to be.


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## Plumdaff (Jun 19, 2017)

There's obviously a difference in how incidents are reported, I'm arguing there's little actual difference in what would happen at the point of arrest and stating that he's only being assessed for mental illness because he's white isn't true. How that's reported is likely to be different, and yes that's depressingly predictable.


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## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Could you please sort out your quotes in posts.
> 
> Yes, obvs. but what is the difference, iyo?



im working on quoting, think ive got it.

In a nutshell, the difference would be the severity of MH i expect, as you said the *M'Naghten Rule. *


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## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Have you seen it mentioned in a statement immediately after the arrest of a terror subject before? What did they say in the first statement after the arrest of Rigby's killers?
> 
> I'd also be very surprised if the suspect's family are all arrested and held for several days before being released and if doors of friends and acquaintances are kicked in today. Let's see.





JuanTwoThree said:


> The problem is the perception that what first occurs to the Met when it's a white person is " *He will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course" *as accurately predicted in the tweet mentioned by editor upthread. You might feel that their reaction to a brown person would be to prioritise finding out who he was working with, what the organisation was and so on. The narrative with white attackers seems to be to establish that they were working alone, and what their mental state was, as a similar priority.
> 
> I'm not saying, necessarily, that this is the case. It's bad even if it just seems to be.



Every time there is a terrorist attack, people on the right will bring out exactly these lines. They will complain that the police and media are underplaying the terrorist angle and playing up the mental health angle. Truth is that it's standard practice to carry out a MH assessment prior to questioning because not doing so might jeopardise later attempts to convict. It's nothing to do with colour.


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## andysays (Jun 19, 2017)

JuanTwoThree said:


> The problem is the perception that what first occurs to the Met when it's a white person is " *He will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course" *as accurately predicted in the tweet mentioned by editor upthread. You might feel that their reaction to a brown person would be to prioritise finding out who he was working with, what the organisation was and so on. The narrative with white attackers seems to be to establish that they were working alone, and what their mental state was, as a similar priority.
> 
> I'm not saying, necessarily, that this is the case. It's bad even if it just seems to be.



Yeah, I agree with this.

There's nothing untoward about the fact that the suspect will be ungoing an MH assessment, but there is something off about the fact that this is being announced so quickly and prominently.

There will be lots of people jumping to conclusions or indulging in speculation which is unjustified by the as yet available info - it would be good if posters here could at least atempt to avoid that as much as possible (not directed at anyone in particular, just a general point)


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## marty21 (Jun 19, 2017)

This is awful , I know that area well ,worked near the Mosque for a while , go through the area on a bus regularly .


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## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

andysays said:


> Yeah, I agree with this.
> 
> There's nothing untoward about the fact that the suspect will be ungoing an MH assessment, but there is something off about the fact that this is being announced so quickly and prominently.



Sorry struggling with working out how to quote.

I expect after 5 minutes with him the police realised the guy was seriously mentally ill and reported the fact he would undego a MH asap, nothing to read into imho, pretty standard.[/QUOTE]


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## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> You can be both mentally ill and a terrorist. You can have a mental illness and be legally fit to plead. One of the Lee Rigby killers is an example. There's little to read into this, they'd assess anyone arrested in a similar situation.


Indeed.  However, what people are correctly highlighting is the difference is in the reporting of it and the way that the media narrative is thereafter established.  It's about the way that facts are presented, the prominence they're given in media reports, and the story that civil society encourages us to tell ourselves.  (And, incidentally, while the "mentally ill" narrative is corrosive to our society's race relations, it is also corrosive to those of us who experience mental ill-health).

But you're right: little _ought_ to be read into the fact.


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## A380 (Jun 19, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> The BBC reported police attended in 'under 10 minutes, whereas a guy being interviewed on Sky says they took an hour to arrive - something isn't right here.
> 
> This guy is also saying there were 2 others in the van, that got away.
> 
> ETA: Sky is now saying the police have stated they arrived in under 10 minutes.


A. Most likely because the man being interviewed was shocked after what happened.

B. Less likely because the man being interviewed wanted to hit out at the police in his anger.

Season with possibility of Murdochs Sky interviewing several people, most of whom said " it was terrible, the crowd arrested him, an Iman protected him and the police were here in minutes " but choose to run with something more dramatic/ divisive? (A bit like the idiot smiley woman the BBC gave twenty minutes too on Thursday saying the fire service waited four hours before going into Grendel towers. )


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## A380 (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Sorry struggling with working out how to quote.
> 
> I expect after 5 minutes with him the police realised the guy was seriously mentally ill and reported the fact he would undego a MH asap, nothing to read into imho, pretty standard.


[/QUOTE]

And if the Met didn't do a MH assessment when he arrived in custody you wouldn't need to be Perry Mason to run a defence in court in six/ nine months time.


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## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

(And, incidentally, while the "mentally ill" narrative is corrosive to our society's race relations, it is also corrosive to those of us who experience mental ill-health).

But you're right: little _ought_ to be read into the fact.[/QUOTE]

Out of curisoty, why is the mentally ill narrative, whatever that is? corrosive to race relations?


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## andysays (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> *Sorry struggling with working out how to quote.*
> 
> I expect after 5 minutes with him the police realised the guy was seriously mentally ill and reported the fact he would undego a MH asap, nothing to read into imho, pretty standard.



Write your reply after the {/QUOTE} box rather than inside it.

And your second sentence is exactly the sort of uninformed speculation I was just referring to. Too much to hope for, obviously...


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## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

andysays said:


> Write your reply after the {/QUOTE} box rather than inside it.
> 
> And your second sentence is exactly the sort of uninformed speculation I was just referring to. Too much to hope for, obviously...


cheees for the tip, but what is speculative about pointing out the police issued a statement saying the guy is to undergo a MH assessment? What possible ulterior motive is there???


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## albionism (Jun 19, 2017)

I suppose if you are detaining a struggling man, 10 minutes 
could feel much, much longer.


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## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Out of curisoty, why is the mentally ill narrative, whatever that is? corrosive to race relations?



White right-wing terrorists (in particular in the US) are usually portrayed as mentally ill loners, thus removing their agency and taking away the responsibility of those who teach and encourage them. Notably different to Islamic terrorism where fingers are pointed at entire communities and the doors of any acquaintances are booted in almost immediately, though few are ever charged.

If you want decent 'race relations' you need some parity in how incidents are treated and how they are reported, equality of justice. By including reference to mental health in the first police statement we're already on the road to explaining this away as just a lone nutter, ignoring the context of growing islamaphobia and reactionary news content that creates 'justification' for yet more blood on the streets.


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## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

what is wrong with me, i feel no shock at all.


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## andysays (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> cheees for the tip, but what is speculative about pointing out the police issued a statement saying the guy is to undergo a MH assessment? What possible ulterior motive is there???



This is pure speculation on your part, as far as I can see, unless you've spoken to the arresting officer



Pac man said:


> *I expect after 5 minutes with him the police realised the guy was seriously mentally ill* and reported the fact he would undego a MH asap, nothing to read into imho, pretty standard.



Anyway, not going to pursue this relative tangent any further.


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## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> White right-wing terrorists (in particular in the US) are usually portrayed as mentally ill loners, thus removing their agency and taking away the responsibility of those who teach and encourage them. Notably different to Islamic terrorism where fingers are pointed at entire communities and the doors of any acquaintances are booted in almost immediately, though few are ever charged.
> 
> If you want decent 'race relations' you need some parity in how incidents are treated and how they are reported, equality of justice. By including reference to mental health in the first police statement we're already on the road to explaining this away as just a lone nutter, ignoring the context of growing islamaphobia and reactionary news content that creates 'justification' for yet more blood on the streets.


Thanks for that, makes sense.But i see it more as damage limitation by the police, playing down islamaphobia rather than further inciting more violence.


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## andysays (Jun 19, 2017)

bimble said:


> what is wrong with me, i feel no shock at all.



Nothing wrong with you. 

After everything that's happened recently it's difficult to feel shock. Sadness yes, shock not so much, unfortunately


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## Sprocket. (Jun 19, 2017)

bimble said:


> what is wrong with me, i feel no shock at all.



Not shocked either, this is entirely the response Isis hope for and have now got.
Poor innocent people suffer again.


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## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

andysays said:


> This is pure speculation on your part, as far as I can see, unless you've spoken to the arresting officer
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, not going to pursue this relative tangent any further.


Sorry i shouldnt have said "i expect"  it was speculation but like i said i cant see an ulterior motive for the police issuing the statement so soon. Im in no way trying to mitigate his culpability, just for the record.


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## likesfish (Jun 19, 2017)

the jihadist nutters can be put in the box labeled jihadist.
  the racist loons tend not to be quite as easy to categorize dylan roof was some sort of neoconfederate fan of Rhodesia while another murderous nut job hates Muslims , similar but not easily linked.
 isis claim any and all murders committed by muslims.
 the white racist loon has no big scary org willing to claim credit for every killing


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## J Ed (Jun 19, 2017)

albionism said:


> I suppose if you are detaining a struggling man, 10 minutes
> could feel much, much longer.



Yes, I had to call 999 the other week to direct an ambulance to where the person I had called it for was and I took instruction from the person on the phone. I thought the whole thing took at least 30 mins, I checked my phone it had actually taken 8 minutes.


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## Tankus (Jun 19, 2017)

Pontyclun........?........


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## not-bono-ever (Jun 19, 2017)

this country is rapidly tuning to shit. What is to be done ?


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## RD2003 (Jun 19, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> this country is rapidly tuning to shit. What is to be done ?


We've got to up our posting rates on social media.


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## Artaxerxes (Jun 19, 2017)

RD2003 said:


> We've got to up our posting rates on social media.




I need to change my Twatter avatar to the City of London flag, that'll learn em!


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## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2017)

Ban the Welsh I say.


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## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Out of curisoty, why is the mentally ill narrative, whatever that is? corrosive to race relations?


Didn't see this because I didn't know you'd quoted me.

I was using a shorthand to save myself writing an essay about the background to every clause.  However, what I'm getting at is that the far right, whether that's the Islamist far right or the white far right, has more in common than the way the media tells the stories.  Both are about dehumanising the Other.  

Furthermore, the way the media understands the "radicalisation" of each type of far rightist is different.  According to this mistaken narrative there's the way a Muslim is radicalised and there's the way a white person "goes crazy".  In fact, those two stories are erroneous, and there is far more that is similar than the stories allow.  (Which doesn't mean that dissimilarities should be ignored, but that we need to get them in the right order).

So, first of all, we're misunderstanding how these people come to commit these acts.  That doesn't help us to mend society; it doesn't help us to stem the problems.  That means it allows the problems to continue.  It's misdiagnosis  and leads to the wrong treatment which allows the pathology to fester. So that's corrosion point 1.

Corrosion point 2: the media treating murderous right wing attacks differently according to ethnicity (white person does it.  'Explanation' is "they were mentally ill".  Muslim does it.  'Explanation' is "they were radicalised jihadis"). It's about perception. About how we see the media talking about "us".  

And that brings us to corrosion point 3: who is "us"?  How do I describe who I am?  How do others describe who I am?  This is a wide and far-reaching point, and thinking critically about it gets to the heart of society's response to these attacks, the left's response, the "liberal" response, the establishment's response.

Here's a link to an article by Kenan Malik.  It should be read in its entirety, of course.  But I'm going to quote some key passages from it:

THE CHALLENGE OF THE JIHADI STATE OF MIND

"The problem with the conventional radicalization thesis is that it looks at the issue the wrong way round. It begins with jihadists as they are at the end of their journey – enraged about the West, with a back and white view of Islam, and a distorted moral vision – and assumes that these are the reasons that they have come to be as they are. That is rarely the case. Few jihadists start off as religious fanatics or as political militants. That is why their journey to Syria, or their involvement in an act of terror, often comes as such a shock to family and friends."

"Jihadis, in other words, begin their journey searching for something a lot less definable: identity, meaning, respect. The starting point for the making of a homegrown jihadi is not so much ‘radicalization’ as social disengagement, a sense of estrangement from, resentment of, Western society. It is because they have already rejected mainstream culture, ideas and norms that some Muslims search for an alternative vision of the world."

"It is not surprising that many wannabe jihadis are either converts to Islam, or Muslims who discovered their faith only relatively late. In both cases, disenchantment with what else is on offer has led them to the black and white moral code that is Islamism. It is not, in other words, simply a question of being ‘groomed’ or ‘indoctrinated’ but of losing faith in mainstream moral frameworks and searching for an alternative."

"Disengagement is, of course, not simply a Muslim issue. There is today widespread disenchantment with the political process, a sense of being politically voiceless, a despair that neither mainstream political parties nor social institutions seem to comprehend their concerns and needs, a rejection of conventional ideals and norms that seem detached from their experiences.

All this has inevitably shaped how young people, and not just of Muslim backgrounds, experience their alienation, and how they are able to act upon it. It is necessary, therefore, to understand both what connects Muslim and non-Muslim disaffection, and what distinguishes them."

"Deranged fury cloaked in ideological rage is not uniquely Islamist. Two days before the recent attack in London, when Khalid Masood mowed down pedestrians on Westminster Bridge before killing a policeman with a knife, James Harris Jackson allegedly stabbed to death Timothy Caughman in Manhattan. Jackson was white, Caughman black. Jackson is said to have come to New York from Baltimore armed with a knife and a sword and with the aim of killing as many black people as possible. ‘I hate blacks’, he told police. He chose to make New York the scene of his murderous act because it was ‘the media capital of the world’ and he ‘wanted to make a statement’. The police are uncertain whether Jackson had any formal links to racist groups. But, as with many Islamist killings, this stabbing blurs the line between ideological violence and psychotic rage. At his arraignment, the prosecutor called it ‘an act, most likely, of terrorism’. Defence counsel talked of Jackson’s ‘obvious psychological issues’."

"All this exposes both how the character of ideological violence has degenerated and how rage has become a feature of public life. The social and moral boundaries that act as firewalls against such behaviour have weakened. Western societies have become socially atomised. The influence of institutions that once helped socialise individuals and inculcate them with a sense of obligation to others, from the church to trade unions, has declined. So has that of progressive movements that gave social grievance a political form. All this has spawned a proliferation of angry, unbalanced individuals, detached from wider society and its norms, denied political outlets for their disaffections and who find in Islamism or white nationalism the balm for their demons and the justification for their actions.

Against this background, most of the policy responses to jihadism have have attempted to tackle the wrong problems, and so have helped to create more illiberal societies without challenging jihadism."


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

just looked on the guardian page, fucking hell. have they caught the guy? is there any more info about the suspect  

there seems no fucking end to this shit at the moment


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

On the guardian page it's being described as terrorism so that's something I suppose


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> just looked on the guardian page, fucking hell. have they caught the guy?


Apparently so.  

"A 48-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder."

Not sure about why that isn't murder, but I'm no legal expert.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> There's obviously a difference in how incidents are reported, I'm arguing there's little actual difference in what would happen at the point of arrest and stating that he's only being assessed for mental illness because he's white isn't true. How that's reported is likely to be different, and yes that's depressingly predictable.


Presumably they have to determine how fit he is to be interviewed and how reliable any evidence he gives is.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Apparently so.
> 
> "A 48-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder."
> 
> Not sure about why that isn't murder, but I'm no legal expert.



Maybe the person died after they arrested him?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Presumably they have to determine how fit he is to be interviewed and how reliable any evidence he gives is.


Indeed.  

And we're all coming to this in its early stages.  And we don't yet know how different media will settle on how to tell the story.  Thankfully the Guardian is calling it terrorist.  The BBC,. however, is (for now at least) putting that in inverted commas.  This is an advance.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Apparently so.
> 
> "A 48-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder."
> 
> Not sure about why that isn't murder, but I'm no legal expert.



BBC says attempted murder, Guardian says murder, initial reports seemed to imply that a crowd may have already been helping an older man in physical distress ?when the incident happened or ?a man collapsed during the incident so there may be some confusion about exactly what happened right now.


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

Even the DM is going with terror attack in the headline.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

well someone attacks people with a van and rants about killing particular groups, what else is it going to be tbh?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Apparently so.
> 
> "A 48-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder."
> 
> Not sure about why that isn't murder, but I'm no legal expert.


Early witness accounts indicate that the man who died had already collapsed and was being attended to by people before the van turned up. Whilst certainly one witness has made a point of saying that this man was alive at the time of the van attack, it may be that this is not accurate.

Statement from MPS' DAC Neil Basu (SNCCT):



> The attack unfolded whilst the man was already receiving first aid from public at the scene. And sadly that man has died. Any causative link between his death and the attack will form part of our investigation. It is too early to state if his death was as a result of this attack.



Finsbury Park terror attack: one dead near north London mosque – latest updates

The charge could be upgraded if necessary.


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 19, 2017)

what a cunt...  

giving Isis the sort of response they want and a great piece of propaganda


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Apparently so.
> 
> "A 48-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder."
> 
> Not sure about why that isn't murder, but I'm no legal expert.



The guy that died was the one being treated for a heart attack, his unfortunate death may not be connected to the attack, police have said that will be part of their investigation, so I assume that's why he has not been arrested for murder. Yet.

ETA: Dave beat me to it above.


----------



## peterkro (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Maybe the person died after they arrested him?


Before the van struck people they were giving the guy CPR so it'll probably take some time to ascertain whether the heart attack killed him or if it was the guy in the van.


----------



## J.C.Decaux (Jun 19, 2017)

..




danny la rouge said:


> Apparently so.
> 
> "A 48-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder."
> 
> Not sure about why that isn't murder, but I'm no legal expert.




according to reports on LBC the victim was already receiving first aid when the van struck


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 19, 2017)

Ax^ said:


> giving Isis the sort of response they want and a great piece of propaganda


Exactly. And so it continues, round and round...


----------



## 8den (Jun 19, 2017)

, because there is a suspect in custody, and most likely to be a trial, the press are far more restricted in what they can and can't say about the "suspect". 

That's not a blanket excusal of all press coverage just something to keep in mind.


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 19, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> Exactly. And so it continues, round and round...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> BBC says attempted murder, Guardian says murder, initial reports seemed to imply that a crowd may have already been helping an older man in physical distress ?when the incident happened or ?a man collapsed during the incident so there may be some confusion about exactly what happened right now.


Yes, we're still in the early stages of this and what we've read and at what time we've read it makes a difference.

(Liked for the clarification.  It seems wrong to 'like' such posts).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

8den said:


> , because there is a suspect in custody, and most likely to be a trial, the press are far more restricted in what they can and can't say about the "suspect".
> 
> That's not a blanket excusal of all press coverage just something to keep in mind.


That's an important point to make, actually.  The suspect is alive and has been charged.  We don't want any trial to have to be abandoned because of what the media and/or people on social media say.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Apparently so.
> 
> "A 48-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder."
> 
> Not sure about why that isn't murder, but I'm no legal expert.


because they can make it stick atm. other charges may of course follow.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> because they can make it stick atm. other charges may of course follow.


Yeah, I hadn't read at that point that the man who died may already have been receiving medical attention.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Theresa may's calling it a potential terrorist attack as well. well that's something I guess ...


----------



## 8den (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Yeah, I hadn't read at that point that the man who died may already have been receiving medical attention.



And that's another important detail, which highlights that it's best to hang back a moment and let the facts emerge.

Again having worked in news there is almost a compulsion to get in 1st, while the more reputable news organisations wait a while for verification. Hence the "attempted murder" and not "murder".


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Yeah, I hadn't read at that point that the man who died may already have been receiving medical attention.


the attempted murder is, i believe, more likely to be because of driving a van at a group of people and not because of an injured man subsequently dying - if indeed it is he that is dead.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Theresa may's calling it a potential terrorist attack as well. well that's something I guess ...


theresa may's lost the plot and should no longer be regarded as a conduit for information.


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

in completely unrelated news last night in Washington a 17 year old girl murdered on her way home from mosque, after "anti-sharia'" demos all over the country last weekend.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Theresa may's calling it a potential terrorist attack as well. well that's something I guess ...



Not that I want to be defending May, but police have been calling it a potential terrorist attack, I am sure they will update that to actual terrorist attack soon enough.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

bimble said:


> in completely unrelated news last night in Washington a 17 year old girl murdered on her way home from mosque, after "anti-sharia'" demos all over the country last weekend.


virginia


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

fucking hell



> We will always make sure that everybody is protected. We have a places of worship fund which is there to protect places of worship like mosques and we will make sure that we do all we can to reduce these sort of attacks. We have made available £2.5m last summer, I recently announced who would be getting those additional funds, which included 12 mosques and I have reopened it recently to make sure that any additional place of worship that feels the need can apply for extra security.



'reduce' these sort of attacks


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 19, 2017)

Video from a mobile phone showing immediate aftermath. The police arrived several minutes before any ambulances and only three officers arrested the man who waves once he's in the back of the van. The fact they didn't linch him with only three officers present is testimony to how peaceful most of the worshippers are, although you can hear one person saying; kill him, kill him, which I think would be my reaction, too.  

This is most likely right wing related, some kind of mindless retaliation (against innocent people) that will only serve to weaken attempts to reduce radicalization.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Apparently so.
> 
> "A 48-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder."
> 
> Not sure about why that isn't murder, but I'm no legal expert.


It's only the arrest


bimble said:


> in completely unrelated news last night in Washington a 17 year old girl murdered on her way home from mosque, after "anti-sharia'" demos all over the country last weekend.


Is this unrelated or related ?


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Police have reportedly said that they're not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.  Why the hell not?  How on earth can they be so sure of no assistance in planning or execution so quickly?  

Unless, of course, they're fibbing but don't want to panic anyone into destroying potential evidence etc.

By the by, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon's jumped on this in predictable style, posting 'I told you so!' and 'This is what I was warning you about!' stuff.  Utterly deaf to the concept that he bears a responsibility, made these things more likely.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 19, 2017)

8den said:


> , because there is a suspect in custody, and most likely to be a trial, the press are far more restricted in what they can and can't say about the "suspect".
> 
> That's not a blanket excusal of all press coverage just something to keep in mind.


Echoed by this thread on Twitter


----------



## IC3D (Jun 19, 2017)

RIP. A lot of people will be happy about this, even more not care.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

IC3D said:


> RIP. A lot of people will be happy about this, even more not care.


----------



## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Didn't see this because I didn't know you'd quoted me.
> 
> I was using a shorthand to save myself writing an essay about the background to every clause.  However, what I'm getting at is that the far right, whether that's the Islamist far right or the white far right, has more in common than the way the media tells the stories.  Both are about dehumanising the Other.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed response. I have previously read that piece by Malik and this one  How did the left radicalism of my Manchester youth give way to Islamism? | Kenan Malik, it makes perfect sense, we need to change the narrative, but how and what to. imo, anybody who commits these acts of terror is mentally ill, as Malik highlights, fuelld by sociopathic rage etc, so maybe the narrative should start there..? i could be talking bollocks.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Thanks for the detailed response. I have previously read that piece by Malik and this one  How did the left radicalism of my Manchester youth give way to Islamism? | Kenan Malik, it makes perfect sense, we need to change the narrative, but how and what to. imo, anybody who commits these acts of terror is mentally ill, as Malik highlights, fuelld by sociopathic rage etc, so maybe the narrative should start there..? i could be talking bollocks.



No, they're not mentally ill. They're ideologically possessed.


----------



## Mr.Dogg (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> On the guardian page it's being described as terrorism so that's something I suppose



Not the BBC website though, they're sticking with it being done by Kitt from Knightrider ("Man Dies As Van Hits Worshippers")


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Are there going to be people with known connections to the far-right rounded up in the wake of this crime? I know after Manchester a lot of people with previous terror links were rounded up and then released shortly afterwards.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Thanks for the detailed response. I have previously read that piece by Malik and this one  How did the left radicalism of my Manchester youth give way to Islamism? | Kenan Malik, it makes perfect sense, we need to change the narrative, but how and what to. imo, anybody who commits these acts of terror is mentally ill, as Malik highlights, fuelld by sociopathic rage etc, so maybe the narrative should start there..? i could be talking bollocks.


It'd be more accurate to say they're socially ill.


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Are there going to be people with known connections to the far-right rounded up in the wake of this crime? I know after Manchester a lot of people with previous terror links were rounded up and then released shortly afterwards.


They were rounded up because of previous terror links, as you say. Most of those on the far-right might be twats, but they have no terror links.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Are there going to be people with known connections to the far-right rounded up in the wake of this crime? I know after Manchester a lot of people with previous terror links were rounded up and then released shortly afterwards.


I think some of those "terror links" equated to _being related to the terrorist_. 

This is perhaps not the time or place to have that discussion though.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> Police have reportedly said that they're not looking for anyone else in connection with the incident.  Why the hell not?  How on earth can they be so sure of no assistance in planning or execution so quickly?
> 
> Unless, of course, they're fibbing but don't want to panic anyone into destroying potential evidence etc.
> 
> By the by, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon's jumped on this in predictable style, posting 'I told you so!' and 'This is what I was warning you about!' stuff.  Utterly deaf to the concept that he bears a responsibility, made these things more likely.


He was calling Muslim citizens  "Enemy combatants" in one video I saw. 
Lots of totally unacceptable incidents at that mosque in the past , thankfully cleaned up now, but using the mosques history as an excuse is as unconvincing and as unforgivable as using foreign policy as an excuse .


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

im not sure, I mean the recent ones didn't fit the profile of like some radicalised loner. some of them had been involved in radical islamism for years and years, I just don't believe that they're just mentally ill people 'latching on' to an ideology - some of them are, but not all. Some are deeply committed to it and have been for years. two of London bridge attackers were family men with kids.

and of course Thomas Mair had links with right-wing extremist groups going back years and years, it wasn't as though he suddenly woke up one day and became 'radicalised'. there's obviously some mentally ill people involved in terrorism but it's not everyone is it.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

RD2003 said:


> They were rounded up because of previous terror links, as you say. Most of those on the far-right might be twats, but they have no terror links.



no terror links _that we know of_ I guess.


----------



## bmd (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> fucking hell
> 
> 
> 
> 'reduce' these sort of attacks



It was the bit about applying for extra security that raised my brows. We used to call that The Police.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

bmd said:


> It was the bit about applying for extra security that raised my brows. We used to call that The Police.



'reduce' these sort of attacks, as opposed to preventing them? do we all have to get used to the possibility some right wing (in this case) nutter might decide to mow us down at some time, but it's ok because they're trying to 'reduce' it.


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> 'reduce' these sort of attacks, as opposed to preventing them? do we all have to get used to the possibility some right wing (in this case) nutter might decide to mow us down at some time, but it's ok because they're trying to 'reduce' it.


To be fair, there's little can be done other than attempts at reduction. Impossible to micromanage the world.


----------



## bmd (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> 'reduce' these sort of attacks, as opposed to preventing them? do we all have to get used to the possibility some right wing (in this case) nutter might decide to mow us down at some time.



Yeah, it's depressing to think that these attacks are becoming a part of our lives. I hold onto the thought that peaceful people have not been changed by these horrific events. I hugely admire the people surrounding this attacker last night for their restraint. I would not have been so forgiving.


----------



## 8den (Jun 19, 2017)

The issue is hate. Whether it's far right hate, religious fundamentalism, hate through fear, it's people hating other people and either directly or indirectly  inspiring people to commit these acts. 

Of course some mentally ill people are drawn to this, but to blame mental illness is also unfair and discriminatory, there are 100,000s of people with moderate & serious mental health issues who never do this.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> He was calling Muslim citizens  "Enemy combatants" in one video I saw.
> Lots of totally unacceptable incidents at that mosque in the past , thankfully cleaned up now, but using the mosques history as an excuse is as unconvincing and as unforgivable as using foreign policy as an excuse .


Given much of his recent focus, I hope that Didsbury mosque are exercising an extreme degree of caution right now.

I'll not take S Y-L's word for it without checking myself, but his allegations made it sound like Finsbury Park used to be.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

The one thing that keeps coming unbidden to mind because of these attacks - ISIS are winning.

Maybe that's an overreaction, or flawed thinking in some other way, but it's just what keeps popping into my thoughts.


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> The one thing that keeps coming unbidden to mind because of these attacks - ISIS are winning.
> 
> Maybe that's an overreaction, or flawed thinking in some other way, but it's just what keeps popping into my thoughts.


If ISIS was winning, this kind of thing would be happening all over the country every day. 

As it is, it's what happens as societies fragment through causes largely beyond the control of anybody.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

blaming the mosque for this attack is the same as ISIS blaming the west for its terrorist attacks though ...


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> *blaming the mosque for this attack *is the same as ISIS blaming the west for its terrorist attacks though ...


Who's done that?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> blaming the mosque for this attack is the same as ISIS blaming the west for its terrorist attacks though ...



Yep...good ol' Tommy was spouting this line today already.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Katie Hopkins has stated her intent to go to the Mosque and speak to victims.  She will ask to be allowed in "to speak to the men"

That'll go well.  And help matters greatly, I'm sure.

Urgh.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> It'd be more accurate to say they're socially ill.



Islamists and far right fascists have more in common than either would like to admit. One of things that they have in common is that both consciously recruit amongst anomic youth and recognise that their state/condition makes them ideal for these type of indiscriminate murder jobs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> The one thing that keeps coming unbidden to mind because of these attacks - ISIS are winning.
> 
> Maybe that's an overreaction, or flawed thinking in some other way, but it's just what keeps popping into my thoughts.


how are isis winning?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> Who's done that?



not saying anyone has, but Finsbury park mosque's past is kind of irrelevant here ...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Islamists and far right fascists have more in common than either would like to admit. One of things that they have in common is that both consciously recruit amongst anomic youth and recognise that their state/condition makes them ideal for these type of indiscriminate murder jobs.


And what we must do is look at how they _became_ anomic, and why they were _abandoned_ to the far right of either persuasion as the way for them to build identity and authenticity.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2017)

Anyone watch the video to Tommy Stephen Yaxley Robison Lennon? he looks so smug that this has happened....

for years he's been waiting for this, and saying that it's not long before someone will do something.

Fucking CUNT


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> how are isis winning?



Muslims feel less British, more Islamic (in an Islamic State kind of way).


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> And what we must do is look at how they _became_ anomic, and why they were _abandoned_ to the far right of either persuasion as the way for them to build identity and authenticity.



a lot of these people (im not saying all) are quite far from being alienated young people though? I mean one of the London bombers was a primary school teacher. And the guy who's done this terrorist attack is 48, so not exactly young?

im sure that that fits the description of what some of these terrorists are like but I also think there's a degree of organisation that goes into these things, and also someone has to have a pretty strong belief in the ideology leading them to do this shit as well ..


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Anyone watch the video to Tommy Stephen Yaxley Robison Lennon? he looks so smug that this has happened....
> 
> for years he's been waiting for this, and saying that it's not long before someone will do something.
> 
> Fucking CUNT



hopefully he wont be smug for long - ie if it emerges that his speeches helped this guy get radicalised


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> not saying anyone has, but Finsbury park mosque's past is kind of irrelevant here ...


Cool.  I agree, FWIW.

My comment about Didsbury was more putting myself in the shoes (left at the door though lol) of a worshipper there.  I'd be particularly worried about an attack.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> Muslims feel less British, more Islamic (in an Islamic State kind of way).


not persuaded


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> how are isis winning?


Creating division, and fear.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> Muslims feel less British, more Islamic (in an Islamic State kind of way).


That's, erm... a rather sweeping generalisation.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> a lot of these people (im not saying all) are quite far from being alienated young people though? I mean one of the London bombers was a primary school teacher. And the guy who's done this terrorist attack is 48, so not exactly young?
> 
> im sure that that fits the description of what some of these terrorists are like but I also think there's a degree of organisation that goes into these things, and also someone has to have a pretty strong belief in the ideology leading them to do this shit as well ..


I didn't say "young" myself, I don't think. If I did, I didn't mean to. Nor do I intend to propose any _class_ profile. 

For example, the people involved in the Glasgow Airport attack were qualified doctors.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> not saying anyone has, but Finsbury park mosque's past is kind of irrelevant here ...


i think it is relevant in terms of why what happened happened, why it was targeted: but it does not justify what happened.


----------



## Cid (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> Muslims feel less British, more Islamic (in an Islamic State kind of way).



Did you ask them all then?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> Creating division, and fear.


the tory party creates division and fear on a far greater scale than isis


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i think it is relevant in terms of why what happened happened, why it was targeted: but it does not justify what happened.


Neatly put.


----------



## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Anyone watch the video to Tommy Stephen Yaxley Robison Lennon? he looks so smug that this has happened....
> 
> for years he's been waiting for this, and saying that it's not long before someone will do something.
> 
> Fucking CUNT


Why isnt this Robinson character behind bars, a quick look on his twitter page and its obvious hes inciting religious and racial hatred along with thousands of other idiots on social media, its like the authorities dont care..


----------



## albionism (Jun 19, 2017)

""Muslims feel less British, more Islamic (in an Islamic State kind of way).""
Do they?

 .


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

albionism said:


> Do they?


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Islamists and far right fascists have more in common than either would like to admit. One of things that they have in common is that both consciously recruit amongst anomic youth and recognise that their state/condition makes them ideal for these type of indiscriminate murder jobs.


I wrote about exactly that in my recent rant about Paxman and Hopkins.

I've also learned a new word today.  "Anomic" - useful.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I didn't say "young" myself, I don't think. If I did, I didn't mean to. Nor do I intend to propose any _class_ profile.
> 
> For example, the people involved in the Glasgow Airport attack were qualified doctors.



sure - it's just that sometimes you get the impression these terrorists (jihadist and far right) are just 'disturbed' and just latch on to any old thing as a way to justify their actions, but in a lot of cases they obviously seriously believe in it as well ...


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Why isnt this Robinson character behind bars, a quick look on his twitter page and its obvious hes inciting religious and racial hatred along with thousands of other idiots on social media, its like the authorities dont care..


He's pretty astute about staying just the legal side of the line.

Unpleasant as he is, he ain't thick.  It would be unwise to dismiss him as such.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> He's pretty astute about staying just the legal side of the line.
> 
> Unpleasant as he is, he ain't thick.  It would be unwise to dismiss him as such.



Be honest, he is quite thick. Wasn't it him that the EDL turned on when he started disappearing their money? Attacked at his own rallies etc.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> sure - it's just that sometimes you get the impression these terrorists (jihadist and far right) are just 'disturbed' and just latch on to any old thing as a way to justify their actions, but in a lot of cases they obviously seriously believe in it as well ...


Yup. That's why I was saying earlier that "mentally ill" is not an accurate analysis. I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough.

The roots of this are social. They're about how we've buggered up society and how, in the mess left behind,  people then construct identity. 

None of this is about mental ill health. And none of it divests the perpetrators of individual responsibility.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Why isnt this Robinson character behind bars,



Because he's white.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

National Action was proscribed last year as a terror group wasn't it?


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Be honest, he is quite thick. Wasn't it him that the EDL turned on when he started disappearing their money? Attacked at his own rallies etc.


How does a lack of morals and financial embezzlement equal thick?

People on all sides of debates appear far too quick to decide anyone who disagrees with them is stupid.  It's not helpful.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Yup. That's why I was saying earlier that "mentally ill" is not an accurate analysis. I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough.
> 
> The roots of this are social. They're about how we've buggered up society and how, in the mess left behind,  people then construct identity.
> 
> None of this is about mental ill health. And none of it divests the perpetrators of individual responsibility.



sorry, yeah, think I misunderstood you.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> How does a lack of morals and financial embezzlement equal thick?
> 
> People on all sides of debates appear far too quick to decide anyone who disagrees with them is stupid.  It's not helpful.



I wasn't saying the immorality made him thick, I'm saying that getting caught, breaking up and being turned on by your own cash cow movement even as it slips into irrelevance is thick. As were all his actions and mainstream media appearances when he was at the vanguard of it, even Nick Griffin was more adept at playing the role of mini-Fuhrer.

Nor am I saying people who disagree with me are thick, I'm saying he is. Katie Hopkins is far more savvy about knowing where her limits lie, although even she's been losing work recently.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> National Action was proscribed last year as a terror group wasn't it?


yes, for all the good it does.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yes, for all the good it does.



Was there ever anything followed up about Thomas Mair's connections with extremist far-right groups? Like was anyone else ever arrested in connection with what he did?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

YouSir said:


> even Nick Griffin was more adept at playing the role of mini-Fuhrer.


nick griffin a rather more significant figure in the british radical right / fascist movement over the past 30 years than yaxley-lennon. so much in british fascism now springs from griffin and the bnp, groups like the edl, groups like britain first...


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> National Action was proscribed last year as a terror group wasn't it?


Apparently so.

Exclusive: Former members of banned terror group meet at far-right training camp


----------



## 8den (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Was there ever anything followed up about Thomas Mair's connections with extremist far-right groups? Like was anyone else ever arrested in connection with what he did?



Yeah they raided the Mail's office and Dacres' behind bars, you must have missed it


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jun 19, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> The roots of this are social. They're about how we've buggered up society and how, in the mess left behind,  people then construct identity.



I think frogwoman that this is helpful in understanding the point. I deliberately used the word anomic becuase it is entirely possible to develop totally alienated feelings from society whatever your age or social class. Memory and identity and how you perceive the world and your place in it are important here. If you read ethnographic research about EDL/far right recruits it's not just, or in some cases even, economic injustices that drive the feelings and motivations of their supporters. It's the same with Islamists - some have extremely wealthy backgrounds and have thrown their lot in with fascism despite perceived material wealth.


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

albionism said:


> ""Muslims feel less British, more Islamic (in an Islamic State kind of way).""
> Do they?
> 
> View attachment 109692 .



So this picture presumably is in response to a Muslim attack on non muslims. Presumably after todays attack, there will be similar displays from non muslims to muslims. This is all good and encouraging.

But there were rumblings straight after this attack that the police didn't respond as quickly as they did for London Bridge, complaints that the media aren't covering it with the same fury. Muslims feel like they aren't being treated the same as non muslims in this country. 

Whether they are or not is a completely different matter. What matters is the ammunition that the extreme elements can use to build up their rhetoric to sow further division.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2017)

Harder to plead insanity when there's obviously been some planning involved, this doesn't look like a spontaneous act. Travelling all that way for several hours, specifically selecting a target.


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

I should clarify that I am not talking about the majority of muslims and non-muslims. Most people just want to get on with their lives. It's just the fringe elements where stuff like this has a big impact, but it is also out of the fringe elements that these attacks come from.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> Muslims feel less British, more Islamic (in an Islamic State kind of way).


are you seriously suggesting this is the case?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> Muslims feel less British, more Islamic (in an Islamic State kind of way).



Not a sensible thing to say given what's just happened


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Harder to plead insanity when there's obviously been some planning involved, this doesn't look like a spontaneous act. Travelling all that way for several hours, specifically selecting a target.


What makes you think he would want to plead insanity?


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> So this picture presumably is in response to a Muslim attack on non muslims. Presumably after todays attack, there will be similar displays from non muslims to muslims. This is all good and encouraging.
> 
> But there were rumblings straight after this attack that the police didn't respond as quickly as they did for London Bridge, complaints that the media aren't covering it with the same fury. Muslims feel like they aren't being treated the same as non muslims in this country.
> 
> Whether they are or not is a completely different matter. What matters is the ammunition that the extreme elements can use to build up their rhetoric to sow further division.


The police response time seems very fuzzy atm.  Police saying they "responded" in under a minute (I'm guessing that was either answering the 999 call or dispatching) and classified it as a terror attack in eight.  Witnesses' claims I've heard have ranged from twenty minutes to an hour.  I suspect that in instances like this then adrenaline - or something - may screw with people's perceptions of time.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Why isnt this Robinson character behind bars, a quick look on his twitter page and its obvious hes inciting religious and racial hatred along with thousands of other idiots on social media, its like the authorities dont care..


And what would you do with the thousands of others?


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> are you seriously suggesting this is the case?



Well no, and I would really like to think that it isn't. It is largely just my fear that this is what this sort of incident will cause.

Can you say that it definitely isn't the case? Has the actions of this person caused muslims to feel more welcome in Britain than before?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

Fucking hell...all those questions do is make this about you and whether or not you are justified in being more scared of Muslim people turning into jihadis as a result of this attack.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> Well no, and I would really like to think that it isn't. It is largely just my fear that this is what this sort of incident will cause.
> 
> Can you say that it definitely isn't the case? Has the actions of this person caused muslims to feel more welcome in Britain than before?



that's like asking will ISIS terrorist attacks lead people to become terrorists like this guy? Kind of tasteless don't you think?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> Well no, and I would really like to think that it isn't. It is largely just my fear that this is what this sort of incident will cause.



Why 'well no' - when your post said the opposite?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm just worried about terrorists/nutters (of whatever idealogical flavour) trying to kill me as im going about my business ffs. like this and the Grenfell tower really makes me fear for the future, I know that wasn't terrorism but it was basically an act of class war in some way.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> So this picture presumably is in response to a Muslim attack on non muslims. Presumably after todays attack, there will be similar displays from non muslims to muslims. This is all good and encouraging.
> 
> But there were rumblings straight after this attack that the police didn't respond as quickly as they did for London Bridge, complaints that the media aren't covering it with the same fury. Muslims feel like they aren't being treated the same as non muslims in this country.
> 
> Whether they are or not is a completely different matter. What matters is the ammunition that the extreme elements can use to build up their rhetoric to sow further division.


Which Muslims ? You are speaking on behalf of very diverse communities just by reading bits of social media


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> that's like asking will ISIS terrorist attacks lead people to become terrorists like this guy? Kind of tasteless don't you think?



It is. Violence tends to breed violence. 

I don't quite understand why you think it is tasteless?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> Well no, and I would really like to think that it isn't. It is largely just my fear that this is what this sort of incident will cause.
> 
> Can you say that it definitely isn't the case? Has the actions of this person caused muslims to feel more welcome in Britain than before?


Seeing as I have only spoken to two mates who are Muslim today and after getting this incident out if the way it was to talk about football and a mutual friend I am not in a position to speak on behalf of all Muslims .


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Why 'well no' - when your post said the opposite?



I'm not seriously suggesting that this absolutely is the case, I'm just suggesting that it increases the likelihood that it could be the case..


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Which Muslims ? You are speaking on behalf of very diverse communities just by reading bits of social media


Those that are already feeling marginalised in British society.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> Those that are already feeling marginalised in British society.


Instead of posting on here why not get out and find some ?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> It is. Violence tends to breed violence.
> 
> I don't quite understand why you think it is tasteless?



because people have just died and you're saying that this is going to make people who could have been the victims support isis or feel 'less british' as a result.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 19, 2017)

Angry failed at life want to take some people with you become a jihadist now white people can play too.

These are the sort of people who in the states would go on a shooting spree in the states.
 If brown they can claim to be a jihadist.
If not they can claim to be acting in revenge.
  The rise of the murderous loner


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Angry failed at life want to take some people with you become a jihadist now white people can play too.
> 
> These are the sort of people who in the states would go on a shooting spree in the states.
> If brown they can claim to be a jihadist.
> ...


We've had our own shooting sprees, e.g. michael ryan


----------



## likesfish (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> We've had our own shooting sprees, e.g. michael ryan


 You now can't easily get a rifle or multiple shot shotgun so that's not an option fortunately


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

likesfish said:


> You now can't easily get a rifle or multiple shot shotgun so that's not an option fortunately


David Copeland didn't need them.


----------



## CRI (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> We've had our own shooting sprees, e.g. michael ryan


Not as many as in the US, and not as recent.  Derrick Bird in Carlisle was 2010.  Dunblane was 21 years ago.  Hungerford was 30 years ago.


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Instead of posting on here why not get out and find some ?



How would you suggest I go about that, and what would you suggest I do when I do find some? I am seriously open to suggestions.

I spent most of my childhood in Pakistan, and came here when I was 14. In school here I was pretty ostracized, but I really don't know what anyone could have done to help my situation. If some 40 something dude just came to me and said "I accept you", I would have just wondered what drugs he had been taking.. How can you change a bunch of middle class teenagers who thrive on a homogenized culture to become accepting of differences? The peer pressure at that age is intense.


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> because people have just died and you're saying that this is going to make people who could have been the victims support isis or feel 'less british' as a result.



That's a fair point, sorry for any offence I have caused.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> That's a fair point, sorry for any offence I have caused.



no problem. i think i might have misunderstood you initially, i thought you were making some sort of anti-muslim comment.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> I'm not seriously suggesting that this absolutely is the case, I'm just suggesting that it increases the likelihood that it could be the case..



You did say that. Read your post at #139


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> You did say that. Read your post at #139


You are right. I fucked up. Sorry. I struggle to deal with the inflections of purely written communication.


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> no problem. i think i might have misunderstood you initially, i thought you were making some sort of anti-muslim comment.


No, just human nature in general..


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> I'm just worried about terrorists/nutters (of whatever idealogical flavour) trying to kill me as im going about my business ffs. like this and the Grenfell tower really makes me fear for the future, I know that wasn't terrorism but it was basically an act of class war in some way.



Statistically it's still a very safe country in those regards, it's the seeming direction of travel that is worrying.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

CRI said:


> Not as many as in the US, and not as recent.  Derrick Bird in Carlisle was 2010.  Dunblane was 21 years ago.  Hungerford was 30 years ago.


Yes, I know.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

i just saw a tweet naming the alleged attacker, i don't want to repost it here though. Apparently an EDL member.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> No, just human nature in general..


No such thing as a universal human nature


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

CRI said:


> Not as many as in the US, and not as recent.  Derrick Bird in Carlisle was 2010.  Dunblane was 21 years ago.  Hungerford was 30 years ago.


Poor auld moaty doesn't even get a mention


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2017)

Can I be the first to stand up and condemn this attack as White Welsh man.

No doubt the White Welsh community leaders will be along also to condemn this horrible attack.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> i just saw a tweet naming the alleged attacker, i don't want to repost it here though. Apparently an EDL member.



Are you referring to Sam Hyde?

If so, that's the American comedian that has been blamed for pervious terrorist attacks by internet trolls.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Can I be the first to stand up and condemn this attack as White Welsh man.
> 
> No doubt the White Welsh community leaders will be along also to condemn this horrible attack.


Welsh people will have to do more to prevent and condemn this sort of thing, they've been silent on attacks emanating from Wales for many years now


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Are you referring to Sam Hyde?
> 
> If so, that's the American comedian that has been blamed for pervious terrorist attacks by internet trolls.


no (edited)


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Welsh people will have to do more to prevent and condemn this sort of thing, they've been silent on attacks emanating from Wales for many years now



They sheltered notorious hate preacher Nick Griffin in their midst for years.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> no his name is tony cumeos apparently



Oh, fair enough, only I spotted some tweet blaming Sam Hyde, again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, fair enough, only I spotted some tweet blaming Sam Hyde, again.



I would suggest any twitter a/c with sieg or picture of Ian Paisley  in it unlikely to be trustworthy


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

the fact there seems to be another disaster every day gives the impression things are starting to unravel here a bit which is scary


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2017)

gonna be a long summer ffs...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> gonna be a long summer ffs...


Hot. A long hot summer.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2017)

Hope some doors are getting kicked through by the ob in his community, find out what people knew, whether his friends/family were aware of his sick views, whether they'd noticed him becoming more extreme and why they hadn't informed the police of any suspicions. It's not good enough to stay silent. Why has nobody from his community stepped up to condemn this attack?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> no his name is tony cumeos apparently


People in my hometown - across a range of people - seem pretty convinced it's someone else. I won't name him for obvious reasons. But it would fit with a south wale van hire.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> People in my hometown - across a range of people - seem pretty convinced it's someone else. I won't name him for obvious reasons. But it would fit with a south wale van hire.



OK, I'll delete my original post.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> OK, I'll delete my original post.


It might be right, who knows right now? But people are saying this blokes mum has been taken away today and all sorts.


----------



## CRI (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Poor auld moaty doesn't even get a mention


Couldn't remember his name, but wasn't he the one who blinded the copper?

Still glad that violent attacks by gun, knife or whatever are still comparatively rare in the UK - enough so to merit a prominent feature on the news and usually, concern from the public.  In the US, they've now become so commonplace, they're barely mentioned in the media, unless the numbers killed are huge, the killers are black, brown or Muslim, or the victims are "important," (e.g. Republican legislators, celebrities, etc.)   Yuck.


----------



## agricola (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Welsh people will have to do more to prevent and condemn this sort of thing, they've been silent on attacks emanating from Wales for many years now



This would be the first Welsh terror attack to have ever killed someone who wasn't one of the terrorists responsible for it.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Apparently CNN reported it as Sam Hyde 

Lots of pushback that AA is the same type of thing.  Sick-arse trolling.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> Apparently CNN reported it as Sam Hyde
> 
> Lots of pushback that AA is the same type of thing.  Sick-arse trolling.



Seriously? CNN fell for it?

That's nuts.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Seriously? CNN fell for it?
> 
> That's nuts.


So I've read.  Doesn't mean it's true of course, but neither would I be surprised.


----------



## Pac man (Jun 19, 2017)

CRI said:


> Couldn't remember his name, but wasn't he the one who blinded the copper?


 The copper committed suicide in the end, couldnt live without his sight.


----------



## phillm (Jun 19, 2017)

One clear lesson from this attack and others is that Theresa May has learnt to get her running shoes on and emote from the scene of the crime with her crocodile tears before Comrade Corbyn arrives with the real thing.

I'm gonna carry a *Theresa May Stay Away* victim card to inform the authorities in the case of me being injured in an attack that I don't want to wake up to see that in my face. Now that would be real terror....


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jun 19, 2017)

phillm said:


> One clear lesson from this attack and others is that Theresa May has learnt to get her running shoes on and emote from the scene of the crime with her crocodile tears before Comrade Corbyn arrives with the real thing.



This is true, in the absence of ideas or politics to address individual acts of terror, the ability to emote/to be real is the new measure of competency and agency.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 19, 2017)

Not good, if true...


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2017)

Tweet of the day


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 19, 2017)

"The assault is not thought to be a hate crime."

Oh, that's ok then..


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Not good, if true...




what does it say?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2017)

Someone on my facebook and maybe on yours if you are a festival person has just claimed then know him and given a name.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 19, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> what does it say?


Maybe 'ordinary' violence but, given the circumstances, I thought 'fled into Mosque' sounded alarming like another islamaphobic attack?


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

The Met don't believe Ilford to be terror related.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 19, 2017)

Doors currently going through in the Cardiff area.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

agricola said:


> This would be the first Welsh terror attack to have ever killed someone who wasn't one of the terrorists responsible for it.


Since the middle ages anyway


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2017)

Fingers said:


> Doors currently going through in the Cardiff area.



Indeed, and he has now been charged on terrorism offences.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2017)

Fingers said:


> Doors currently going through in the Cardiff area.



oh,,,,, looks out of windows...


----------



## agricola (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Since the middle ages anyway



I think they'd still count as defensive actions against the invader, at least up to around 1485 or so.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

Fingers said:


> Doors currently going through in the Cardiff area.



Where are you reading/watching?


> *London attack: Explore a house in Cardiff*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 19, 2017)

Mirror just published his name


----------



## brogdale (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> The Met don't believe Ilford to be terror related.


Good(ish)


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

From Weston as mentioned already


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Mirror just published his name



Indeed...



> Darren Osborne, originally from Weston-super-Mare, North Somerset, but now living in Cardiff, has been named locally as the suspect behind this morning's terror attack


----------



## Fingers (Jun 19, 2017)

Darren Osbourne  

Finsbury Park terror suspect who 'ploughed into Muslims' named as dad-of-four


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Police descend on Cardiff house in London mosque attack investigation


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 19, 2017)

JFTR - this is the name i heard very confidently from a lot of people this morning.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> JFTR - this is the name i heard very confidently from a lot of people this morning.



Is he known fash in your neck of the woods?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 19, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> Is he known fash in your neck of the woods?


Checking now, but he's not immediately familiar and given he's only  three or so years older than me i would probably have come across him if he was a long-termer or anything. That said, he may have left for cardiff as long as 30 years ago so there may be others with records on him. Then again, everyone i talked to seemed to know his last address in weston (a small street that was the heart of the local anti-poll tax campaign btw) i think he would have still been here recently.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 19, 2017)

Someone who I know who knew him describes him as a 'troubled cunt'


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Someone claiming this posted by son of van hire company, hoping wrong!!


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 19, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Someone who I know who knew him describes him as a 'troubled cunt'



He's a cunt in trouble now.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 19, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Someone who I know who knew him describes him as a 'troubled cunt'


Tweeted by the editor of the TLS...


----------



## chilango (Jun 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Checking now, but he's not immediately familiar and given he's only  three or so years older than me i would probably have come across him if he was a long-termer or anything. That said, he may have left for cardiff as long as 30 years ago so there may be others with records on him. Then again, everyone i talked to seemed to know his last address in weston (a small street that was the heart of the local anti-poll tax campaign btw) i think he would have still been here recently.



Doesn't apoear familiar from my time in Cardiff. But faces age a lot in two decades.


----------



## donkyboy (Jun 19, 2017)

he looks like jeremy clarkson from the side


----------



## likesfish (Jun 19, 2017)

A fresh convert to the Taffyban then


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

likesfish said:


> A fresh convert to the Taffyban then



Boyo Haram


----------



## chilango (Jun 19, 2017)

Dai-ish.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 19, 2017)

can't be the viet taff as someone left the exercise notes in a pub


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 19, 2017)

There's a 'human chain' of solidarity being organised at the Darul Isra Mosque, Wyeverne Rd in Cathays in Cardiff tonight at 8.45pm. Various faith leaders attending but seems like idea is for anyone who wants to to turn up.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

Al Gwydda (i have no idea if I've written that correctly)


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Al Gwydda (i have no idea if I've written that correctly)



When it comes to puns on radical islamic extremism meets welsh fash extremism, spelling becomes reduntant


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> When it comes to puns on radical islamic extremism meets welsh fash extremism, spelling becomes reduntant


*W*elsh you racccccisssst!


----------



## 1%er (Jun 19, 2017)

You can cut all the flowers but you cannot keep spring from coming


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

phillm said:


> One clear lesson from this attack and others is that Theresa May has learnt to get her running shoes on and emote from the scene of the crime with her crocodile tears before Comrade Corbyn arrives with the real thing.
> 
> I'm gonna carry a *Theresa May Stay Away* victim card to inform the authorities in the case of me being injured in an attack that I don't want to wake up to see that in my face. Now that would be real terror....


Nurses call her the angel of death


----------



## bendeus (Jun 19, 2017)

Abu SayTaff 
The Tampin'ban
Al Sheepaab


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Finsbury Park mosque of course formerly well known for jihadis but rather differently composed now. So imagine driver thinking of auld abu hamza and his crew and instead struck a group of people caring for an auld man. Disgusting attack



Rather differently composed? On what evidence do you want to make this assertion?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Checking now, but he's not immediately familiar and given he's only  three or so years older than me i would probably have come across him if he was a long-termer or anything. That said, he may have left for cardiff as long as 30 years ago so there may be others with records on him. Then again, everyone i talked to seemed to know his last address in weston (a small street that was the heart of the local anti-poll tax campaign btw) i think he would have still been here recently.



You'll be giving a statement then, based on your 'expertise'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Rather differently composed? On what evidence do you want to make this assertion?


newspaper reports e.g.


----------



## sealion (Jun 19, 2017)

Shame the cunt driving the van didn't Dai !


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You'll be giving a statement then, based on your 'expertise'?


What?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> newspaper reports e.g.
> 
> View attachment 109714
> 
> View attachment 109715



And there you have it - quoting Ed Husain, and 'newspapers' - in the latter case a source that I'm sure you would excoriate or treat with the deepest suspicion.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> What?



You know. Your situational / positional / political / environmental - expertise?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> And there you have it - quoting Ed Husain, and 'newspapers' - in the latter case a source that I'm sure you would excoriate or treat with the deepest suspicion.


one case - the second snip the source of the excerpt. but if you want to make out that fpm is a hotbed of jihadi activity, you should be aware that's a possible libel - perhaps you missed this story while you were posting threads with peculiar titles earlier this year Finsbury Park mosque wins apology and damages from Thomson Reuters


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Rather differently composed? On what evidence do you want to make this assertion?



Abu Hamza al Musrai was deported in 2012.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Rather differently composed? On what evidence do you want to make this assertion?


The Finsbury Park Mosque: radical hotbed transformed to model of community relations


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You know. Your situational / positional / political / environmental - expertise?


are you off on one of your baiting expeditions again?


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces why not just go out on the street and shout random angry noises and stuff at passers-by for catharsis instead of doing it here.  Lot of it about today in this hot weather.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> And there you have it - quoting Ed Husain, and 'newspapers' - in the latter case a source that I'm sure you would excoriate or treat with the deepest suspicion.



Serious question here. What's wrong with quoting Ed Husain?


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm deeply suspicious of this one ever since someone pointed out what his/her username abbreviates to...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

you've gone all quiet Beats & Pieces.

good


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You know. Your situational / positional / political / environmental - expertise?


Ok. Not really interested in playing whatever game that you think this is.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> one case - the second snip the source of the excerpt. but if you want to make out that fpm is a hotbed of jihadi activity, you should be aware that's a possible libel - perhaps you missed this story while you were posting threads with peculiar titles earlier this year Finsbury Park mosque wins apology and damages from Thomson Reuters



You are a fool of the highest order.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You are a fool of the highest order.



You're a fool of the lowest order.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Ok. Not really interested in posting whatever game that you think this is.



It isn't a game - but if you are prepared to go on a public forum and suggest you have some knowledge or expertise regarding the individual allegedly involved - then, given your very public concern and expertise - you would be giving a statement setting out hat you know or knew. Of course, in doing so, you would recognise that it could be challenged?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

bimble said:


> Beats & Pieces why not just go out on the street and shout random angry noises and stuff at passers-by for catharsis instead of doing it here.  Lot of it about today in this hot weather.



I thought you might appear - another dog sniffing another dog's arse. Never has been pretty.


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I thought you might appear - another dog sniffing another dog's arse. Never has been pretty.


Dogs sniffing each others arses are interested in each other. I don't find you interesting I'm afraid, just mildly annoying,


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> It isn't a game - but if you are prepared to go on a public forum and suggest you have some knowledge or expertise regarding the individual allegedly involved - then, given your very public concern and expertise - you would be giving a statement setting out hat you know or knew. Of course, in doing so, you would recognise that it could be challenged?


What the fuck are you blithering on about?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> It isn't a game - but if you are prepared to go on a public forum and suggest you have some knowledge or expertise regarding the individual allegedly involved - then, given your very public concern and expertise - you would be giving a statement setting out hat you know or knew. Of course, in doing so, you would recognise that it could be challenged?


he didn't say that though, get your shit in order before slinging it around


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I thought you might appear - another dog sniffing another dog's arse. Never has been pretty.



Hello! Can I have some abuse please!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You are a fool of the highest order.


Right. So you're conceding the question about the fpm. Good. On your way, bnp


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> Hello! Can I have some abuse please!


It's not very good abuse and full of additives.


----------



## binka (Jun 19, 2017)

I know someone who lives near him. Apparently he was in the pub on Saturday night and went off on a racist rant, some people took exception and he got into a fight and was chucked out. Obviously now we know what he did the next day


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> It's not very good abuse and full of additives.



Yeah but still it's the only reason I come here. Beats & Pieces get back here and give me some shit ffs.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Rather differently composed? On what evidence do you want to make this assertion?



On the evidence that the current Imam (ergo management) threw Abu Hamza out. Now fuck off.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

binka said:


> I know someone who lives near him. Apparently he was in the pub on Saturday night and went off on a racist rant, some people took exception and he got into a fight and was chucked out. Obviously now we know what he did the next day


what pub please?


----------



## binka (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> what pub please?


I don't know


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

binka said:


> I don't know


any chance you can ask please?? many thanks in advance


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> any chance you can ask please?? many thanks in advance


The Hollybush according to the guardian.

Turns out my sister knew him and is mates with his sister. Reckons he was a typical small town hardman.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> The Hollybush according o the guardian.


cheers


----------



## binka (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> any chance you can ask please?? many thanks in advance


Sorry yeah I nearly didn't post what I did because I don't like putting too much personal information out there, especially with something like this. Be a bit weird of me to ask about which pub it is considering I live a couple of hundred miles away so the answer wouldn't really matter to me anyway. I'd guess what Butchers said is correct anyway as I'd imagine there will be plenty of people with first hand accounts of it


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2017)

> Osborne also appears to have a Twitter account, which he has never used to send his own tweets, instead monitoring 32 other users, including Paul Golding and Jayda Fransen, the leaders of the far right party Britain First. Its mission statement states: “We will restore Christianity as the bedrock and foundation of our national life as it has been for the last one thousand years.”



fucking hell


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 19, 2017)

> We call on our army of white van-driving readers



The Sun 

Lest we forget.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> The Hollybush according to the guardian.
> 
> Turns out my sister knew him and is mates with his sister. Reckons he was a typical small town hardman.



I drank at the Hollybush long ago. As such I would like to underline that this attack was not in my name.

I note though that he is originally from Somerset, but The Wurzels are strangely silent about this horror. What does that tell us?


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> The Hollybush according to the guardian.
> 
> Turns out my sister knew him and is mates with his sister. Reckons he was a typical small town hardman.





> Several far right groups are active in south Wales. They include the South Wales National Front. Its leader, Adam Lloyd, denied any connection to the attacker. “The man in question is not known to any of us here in South Wales National Front, and to our knowledge is not and never has been a member,” he said. “Although we will never condone or accept this kind of violent attacks here in SWNF, anyone with a right mind can see this is not a terrorist attack but a revenge attack.”


WTAF is this now? 

The mental twists and turns fash will take to justify hatred never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> The Sun
> 
> Lest we forget.


And not to mention:


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

binka said:


> Sorry yeah I nearly didn't post what I did because I don't like putting too much personal information out there, especially with something like this. Be a bit weird of me to ask about which pub it is considering I live a couple of hundred miles away so the answer wouldn't really matter to me anyway. I'd guess what Butchers said is correct anyway as I'd imagine there will be plenty of people with first hand accounts of it


can you imagine that the answer matters to others? 
and a good enough reason is that someone in Cardiff was asking no? 
answered straight by BA anyway so don't worry yourself


----------



## binka (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> a good enough reason is that someone in Cardiff was asking no?


No not really but lets not have a row about it


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

weak


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> weak



Back off. That's unnecessary. The explanation was good enough.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Back off. That's unnecessary.


should have added excuse
weak excuse


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> should have added excuse
> weak excuse



What is this to you? The explanation was good enough. Why bother?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

and wtf with your instruction of back off, no imo, no suggest?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> What is this to you? The explanation was good enough. Why bother?


pardon?? i live in fucking Cardiff, the explanation was not good enough no
is that good enough explanation for you??


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> pardon?? i live in fucking Cardiff, the explanation was not good enough no
> is that good enough explanation for you??



Living in Cardiff doesn't mean you own everyone ffs! Binka didn't want to ask the added question for you with good reason. You got the info anyway but you are still flexing? Odd.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Living in Cardiff doesn't mean you own everyone ffs! Binka didn't want to ask the added question for you with good reason. You got the info anyway but you are still flexing? Odd.


course i don't, why jump to that conclusion.
 you can't see why someone in Cardiff would want to know which pub??


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> course i don't, why jump to that conclusion.
> you can't see why someone in Cardiff would want to know which pub??



Of course I can. At the same time I would accept that someone didn't want to enquire in the way that Binka explained why.  We don't know who their connections are and how that might be for them depending etc. Obvious to me. You can be more gracious about it.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Of course I can. At the same time I would accept that someone didn't want to enquire in the way that Binka explained why.  We don't know who their connections are and how that might be for them depending etc. Obvious to me. You can be more gracious about it.


are you saying they're racist scum too (people they know who were in the pub) and don't want to endanger themselves by asking?? 
you make your assumptions and i'll make my posts, that ok?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

fwiw i was objecting to "... I live a couple of hundred miles away so the answer wouldn't really matter to me anyway..."

e2a enough anyway


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> are you saying they're racist scum too and don't want to endanger themselves by asking??
> you make your assumptions and i'll make my posts, that ok?



I am saying there can be very real reasons why people don't want to ask too many questions and post up the answers to those questions online.

I am not making assumptions ffs. You are not being generous and saying I live in Cardiff isn't a trump card for the above reason. Come on, you are usually more reasonable than this.


----------



## Cid (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> fwiw i was objecting to "... I live a couple of hundred miles away so the answer wouldn't really matter to me anyway..."
> 
> e2a enough anyway



Way to take something out of context. Fucking hell ddraig, you look like a right prick doing this. Leave it.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> fwiw i was objecting to "... I live a couple of hundred miles away so the answer wouldn't really matter to me anyway..."
> 
> e2a enough anyway



That read to me as an attempt not to get more involved.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

enough anyway


Rutita1 said:


> I am saying there can be very real reasons why people don't want to ask too many questions and post up the answers to those questions online.
> 
> I am not making assumptions ffs. You are not being generous and saying I live in Cardiff isn't a trump card for the above reason. Come on, you are usually more reasonable than this.


i don't expect people to endanger themselves, they could pm
luckily the info is out there and BA posted it pdq
ffs it's not a trump card, it's a reason, sorry if not good enough for you


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> That read to me as an attempt not to get more involved.


yeah, let's all "not get involved" jeez

going out to get away from this and other shit


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> course i don't, why jump to that conclusion.
> you can't see why someone in Cardiff would want to know which pub??


I genuinely can't tbh.  If it was presented as a far right base of some sort I could, but IIUC Osborne got in a barney for being a drunken racist turd and got booted out?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> I genuinely can't tbh.  If it was presented as a far right base of some sort I could, but IIUC Osborne got in a barney for being a drunken racist turd and got booted out?


must be me then
if pub is known then and was discovered to be a base, a good idea surely to know surely?


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

ddraig said:


> must be me then
> if pub is known then and was discovered to be a base, a good idea surely to know surely?


Fair enough, if you're suggesting you'd go and check it out on the off-chance - just not the way I read the Guardian article.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> On the evidence that the current Imam (ergo management) threw Abu Hamza out. Now fuck off.



With the help of the Police. Now you fuck off.


----------



## J.C.Decaux (Jun 19, 2017)

.

*" I did my bit"
*
But for who and for what reason?

We need to find out how this terrorist was radicalised.


Yesterday I wore my prop-Palestinian t-shirt around  C Ldn and on al-Quds,  the stares of fecking hate was palpable, especially the filthy looks of the black cabs, which surprised me, as it had feck all to do with Islamic Salafi's.

So my question would be, for what reason did he wish to murder and do harm to as many innocent Muslims as possible?

Or was he radicalized by the British Media or from right wing websites?


----------



## J.C.Decaux (Jun 19, 2017)

.




Beats & Pieces said:


> With the help of the Police. Now you fuck off.




Who knew and let him preach there? Along with Qatada espousing their wahabi ideaology?

useful tools then, were they not?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...




In which case the question to ask is in regard to whom?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> In which case the question to ask is in regard to whom?


Give it a rest.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

SpineyNorman said:


> Give it a rest.



What is your point? Are you another self-appointed expert here?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> What is your point? Are you another self-appointed expert here?


No one could ever accuse you of being an expert self-appointed or otherwise, bnp


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> No one could ever accuse you of being an expert self-appointed or otherwise, bnp



Not at all Picky, and I would ask you (again) to use the abbreviation 'B&P'. Do you know anything about this subject or area? I would suggest not - but then again you do do like your Google searches eh?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

A question to ask might be this - a white male (apparenty) hires a van and travels from Wales to undertake an attack against a mosque of no significant public importance for some time, despite the fact that Cardiff has a host of targets available - with a suitably attuned public academic profile?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> A question to ask might be this - a white male (apparenty) hires a van and travels from Wales to undertake an attack against a mosque of no significant public importance for some time, despite the fact that Cardiff has a host of targets available - with a suitably attuned public academic profile?



You could waste a lot of time trying to find the logic in the actions of a murderous racist lunatic.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

I would suggest that this event has no place within the wider discourse of terrorism - and may owe much more to mental health issues.


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> .. with a suitably attuned public academic profile?


What on earth are you on about now?


----------



## agricola (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I would suggest that this event has no place within the wider discourse of terrorism - and may owe much more to mental health issues.



The recent history of terrorism is awash with such incidents, though.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> You could waste a lot of time trying to find the logic in the actions of a murderous racist lunatic.



Take that narrative and run with it - you can see how that will play out?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 19, 2017)

It's all very well for people to froth about that mosque, but I think the fact that the terrorist was held by the people there till plod came, with no harm coming to him, says quite a lot. 

It always amazes me that all these muslims are meant to be frothing loons because with a good couple of million or whatever in the country we should all be dead by now if that was the case. I have lived in a diverse area for 20 years, quite a few muslims and close to some areas with a lot. Not once has anyone tried to convert me or chop my head off. Are they bad muslims?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

agricola said:


> The recent history of terrorism is awash with such incidents, though.



That statement is based upon what evidence?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Not at all Picky, and I would ask you (again) to use the abbreviation 'B&P'. Do you know anything about this subject or area? I would suggest not - but then again you do do like your Google searches eh?


Yeh. You would suggest not. But as so often you'd be wrong.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It's all very well for people to froth about that mosque, but I think the fact that the terrorist was held by the people there till plod came, with no harm coming to him, says quite a lot.
> 
> It always amazes me that all these muslims are meant to be frothing loons because with a good couple of million or whatever in the country we should all be dead by now if that was the case. I have lived in a diverse area for 20 years, quite a few muslims and close to some areas with a lot. Not once has anyone tried to convert me or chop my head off. Are they bad muslims?



And there you have it. My *professional* and *personal* experience too.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 19, 2017)

Someone of this thread has lost it. They probably never had it.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. You would suggest not. But as so often you'd be wrong.



What is your _expertise_ and _experience_ in this area? And do you have any *academic*, *personal*, or *professional* experience to speak of?

I think not.


----------



## agricola (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> That statement is based upon what evidence?



He appears to have been a previously disturbed individual who hired a van, used it to run over people who were demonstrably innocent of any offence to him, who was almost certainly influenced to hate by people he didn't know in person and he almost certainly had the barest grasp of whatever it was he was trying to defend.  There is even a picture of him doing the takbir.  What else do you want?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 19, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Apparently an EDL member.



Unlikely, given that it is not a membership organisation.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

agricola said:


> He appears to have been a previously disturbed individual who hired a van, used it to run over people who were demonstrably innocent of any offence to him, who was almost certainly influenced to hate by people he didn't know in person and he almost certainly had the barest grasp of whatever it was he was trying to defend.  There is even a picture of him doing the takbir.  What else do you want?



A 'previously disturbed individual'? What does that actually mean? According to what criteria has he been judged / sanctioned - and by what criteria do *you* judge him?

That is your starting point. That should be the starting point of *any* possible discussion.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> What is your _expertise_ and _experience_ in this area? And do you have any *academic*, *personal*, or professional experience to speak of?
> 
> I think not.


You mean you don't think. You made out I didn't know what i was talking about above. I and others adduced evidence to refute your claim. Now you're getting all antsy cos you're such an abject failure.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 19, 2017)

...and no we get gobbledygook questioning and statements for no other reason than he wants attention. :/


----------



## peterkro (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> What is your _expertise_ and _experience_ in this area? And do you have any *academic*, *personal*, or *professional* experience to speak of?
> 
> I think not.


Appeal to authority,fuck the fuck right off.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> ...and no we get gobbledygook questioning and statements for no other reason than he wants attention. :/



No. But if it makes you feel better to 


Pickman's model said:


> You mean you don't think. You made out I didn't know what i was talking about above. I and others adduced evidence to refute your claim. Now you're getting all antsy cos you're such an abject failure.



No Picky. You really don't have a clue. I suggest (politely) you shut up and give up now. Please.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

peterkro said:


> Appeal to authority,fuck the fuck right off.



Fuck the fuck off with your ignorance then.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 19, 2017)

Lost it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> No. But if it makes you feel better to
> 
> 
> No Picky. You really don't have a clue. I suggest (politely) you shut up and give up now. Please.


We've been here before and you bottled it then too, bnp. But go on then, outline how I don't have a clue, I could do with a laugh


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Fuck the fuck off with your ignorance then.


Show some fucking knowledge of your own then


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Show some fucking knowledge of your own then


Don't hold your breath, ou


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> We've been here before and you bottled it then too, bnp. But go on then, outline how I don't have a clue, I could do with a laugh



We haven't. So. What is your informed position regarding the Finsbury Park Mosque?


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

I just want to know what "a suitably attuned public academic profile" is.


----------



## agricola (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> A 'previously disturbed individual'? What does that actually mean? According to what criteria has he been judged / sanctioned - and by what criteria do *you* judge him?
> 
> That is your starting point. That should be the starting point of *any* possible discussion.



Firstly - the reported statements of his neighbours, who actually appear to have met him.  

Secondly, we are talking about someone who appears to have deliberately run down people he has never met, because some other people had deliberately run down some other people whom they had never met.  The criteria to judge him is (and should be) the same by which we judge them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> We haven't. So. What is your informed position regarding the Finsbury Park Mosque?


More informed than yours, bnp


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

bimble said:


> I just want to know what "a suitably attuned public academic profile" is.


 
For you it likely means '(...) can't be bothered to think too hard'.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> More informed than yours, bnp



Answer the question Picky. I'll wait for you to do the Google search thing....


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I would suggest that this event has no place within the wider discourse of terrorism - and may owe much more to mental health issues.


Are the two mutually exclusive?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

agricola said:


> Firstly - the reported statements of his neighbours, who actually appear to have met him.
> 
> Secondly, we are talking about someone who appears to have deliberately run down people he has never met, because some other people had deliberately run down some other people whom they had never met.  The criteria to judge him is (and should be) the same by which we judge them.



He was described as 'aggressive and strange'. What does that actually mean? Is there a record of intervention by the Social Services? Was that 'strangness' ever reported or acted upon by local authorities?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Answer the question Picky. I'll wait for you to do the Google search thing....


I asked you to demonstrate I don't have a clue. You're simply demonstrating you don't have an idea - you haven't even read that book about the fpm have you you useless bottling wankstain.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

SpineyNorman said:


> Are the two mutually exclusive?



No - but any possible link needs to be carefully examined and considered. At the present time the evidence (as might exist) does not appear to be available.


----------



## xenon (Jun 19, 2017)

.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I asked you to demonstrate I don't have a clue. You're simply demonstrating you don't have an idea - you haven't even read that book about the fpm have you you useless bottling wankstain.



You think? Tell me Picky, what book do you think you want to cite here? Please - do tell.


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> He was described as 'aggressive and strange'. What does that actually mean? Is there a record of intervention by the Social Services? Was that 'strangness' ever reported or acted upon by local authorities?


You are funny. Thought your point if there is one is that he's mad not bad, but now you're arguing the opposite.


----------



## agricola (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> He was described as 'aggressive and strange'. What does that actually mean? Is there a record of intervention by the Social Services? Was that 'strangness' ever reported or acted upon by local authorities?



Are you really saying that only a record of intervention by the Social Services can justify calling someone "aggressive and strange"?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

bimble said:


> You are funny. Thought your point if there is one is that he's mad not bad, but now you're arguing the opposite.



No. You are just stupid.


----------



## J.C.Decaux (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> taffboy gwyrdd said: ↑
> It's all very well for people to froth about that mosque, but I think the fact that the terrorist was held by the people there till plod came, with no harm coming to him, says quite a lot.
> 
> It always amazes me that all these muslims are meant to be frothing loons because with a good couple of million or whatever in the country we should all be dead by now if that was the case. I have lived in a diverse area for 20 years, quite a few muslims and close to some areas with a lot. Not once has anyone tried to convert me or chop my head off. Are they bad muslims?



I concur with your fantastic above  posting.

Nooooo, the 'bad' muslims are the ones who have been brainwashed by deobandi/salfi/wahabi imams and clerics.

They are just a minority puritanical sects bankrolled and promoted by the Saudi's.
The Rothchilds Khazars want us all to hate all Muslim's.

.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

agricola said:


> Are you really saying that only a record of intervention by the Social Services can justify calling someone "aggressive and strange"?



Of course not - but the fact of an apparent 'social awareness' that uses such a description is worthy of further investigation? If there was some kind of consensus that used the term 'strange', then I would want to know why and how, in what particular circumstances, does such a description arise - and (moreover) is felt to be apprpropriate? 

Before the journalists descend.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You think? Tell me Picky, what book do you think you want to cite here? Please - do tell.


I'm not citing anything until you show everyone how I don't have a clue. Put up: or shut up, bnp.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 19, 2017)

why do you have to make your posts so unreadable, Beats & Pieces ?
It's like you are trying to make yourself as abstruse as you can to demonstrate your intellect


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> The Rothchilds Khazars want us all to hate all Muslim's.
> 
> .


And there it is. Shocked I am.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> why do you have to make your posts so unreadable, Beats & Pieces ?
> It's like you are trying to make yourself as abstruse as you can to demonstrate your intellect



No, that isn't the case. But this subject area is too important to be left to a simplistic bifurcation.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

What's going on here then?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> What's going on here then?


Bnp's showing how not to post on urban, it's a masterclass if you will


----------



## J.C.Decaux (Jun 19, 2017)

.



Beats & Pieces said:


> He was described as 'aggressive and strange



Take it he is a  Caedydd City fan then!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> No, that isn't the case. But this subject area is too important to be left to a simplistic bifurcation.


there you go again


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I'm not citing anything until you show everyone how I don't have a clue. Put up: or shut up, bnp.



You don't have a clue - you can't appear to cite any work regarding the position of the Finsbury Park Mosque, although I rather suspect your unwillingness is predicated on your alleged political position on Urban 75, and your alleged antipathy towards the Police.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> there you go again


Subject area - farming piffle. Bnp's nothing but a puffed up winding who knows fuck all about fucking everything.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Subject area - farming piffle. Bnp's nothing but a puffed up winding who knows fuck all about fucking everything.



So. Again. Please cite your evidence to support your alleged expertise regarding the Finsbury Park Mosque. Google searches not included.


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

Are people cool with the Rothschild Khazars being behind it all  ? Fuck you J.C.Decaux .


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> Take it he is a  Caedydd City fan then!


1 oh dear, fuck off
2 it's Caerdydd 
3 fuck off some more


----------



## 1927 (Jun 19, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> Take it he is a  Caedydd City fan then!


More likely to be Brizzle city seeing as he's from W-S-M.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 19, 2017)

bimble said:


> Are people cool with the Rothschild Khazars being behind it all  ? Fuck you J.C.Decaux .



No people aren't cool about it. I'm just taken aback as I was fairly sure one poster on this thread was setting themselves up for an open goal of fuckwittery then the JC there unleashed that stinkbomb. 

WTF and also


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You don't have a clue - you can't appear to cite any work regarding the position of the Finsbury Park Mosque, although I rather suspect your unwillingness is predicated on your alleged political position on Urban 75, and your alleged antipathy towards the Police.


You were going to demonstrate I didn't have a clue, remember? You're not doing well when you can't adduce any evidence to refute the two articles I've posted, when you appear unaware of 'the suicide factory', and when you just piss about in circles wanting me to do your job for you. You've had your chances, you fluffed them, now fuck off.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Bnp's* nothing but a *puffed up winding who knows fuck all about fucking everything.


You reckon?  I'm leaning towards the added distinction of _right wing troll_.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 19, 2017)

bimble said:


> Are people cool with the Rothschild Khazars being behind it all  ? Fuck you J.C.Decaux .



I wasn't sure if J.C.Decaux was being sarcastic or serious. Bonkers post either way.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> there you go again



I do not wish to be rude here, but do you have a dog in this fight? I suspect not - and I like you.

Please allow Picky to hang himself by way of his own hubris.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> You reckon?  I'm leaning towards the added distinction of _right wing troll_.


Yeh the BNP's no mistake.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> No people aren't cool about it. I'm just taken aback as I was fairly sure one poster on this thread was setting themselves up for an open goal of fuckwittery then the JC there unleashed that stinkbomb.
> 
> WTF and also


I'd just had to assume it was an attempt at satire.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I do not wish to be rude here, but do you have a dog in this fight? I suspect not - and I like you.
> 
> Please allow Picky to hang himself by way of his own hubris.


no, i don't but i find your use of language annoying. you need to start speaking in plain language if you want people to take you seriously.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I do not wish to be rude here, but do you have a dog in this fight? I suspect not - and I like you.
> 
> Please allow Picky to hang himself by way of his own hubris.


You were going to do the hanging, but you've fucked it.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I do not wish to be rude here, but do you have a dog in this fight? I suspect not - and I like you.
> 
> Please allow Picky to hang himself by way of his own hubris.


If you want to chat one on one with PM, use PMs.


----------



## bimble (Jun 19, 2017)

No. They were all over the holocaust thread posting shit. They're not joking.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> no, i don't but i find your use of language annoying. you need to start speaking in plain language if you want people to take you seriously.


He swallowed a dictionary and vomits forth words at random


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> You were going to do the hanging, but you've fucked it.


I think BNP refers to it as 'lynching'


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> I'd just had to assume it was an attempt at satire.



You're willing to give him benefit of the doubt I'm not. Not convinced given what else he's posted about that I can buy that.

eta. and I hadn't seen the holocaust stuff, just the Quds stuff.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> You were going to demonstrate I didn't have a clue, remember? You're not doing well when you can't adduce any evidence to refute the two articles I've posted, when you appear unaware of 'the suicide factory', and when you just piss about in circles wanting me to do your job for you. You've had your chances, you fluffed them, now fuck off.



*Sigh*.

Please provide evidence (beyond Google searches) to support your position regarding the Finsbury Park Mosque.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

bimble said:


> No. They were all over the holocaust thread posting shit. They're not joking.


Oh.  

In that case I'm simply confused as to why they'd post on here.  It would be like me signing up to a Katie Hopkins fan club.  Odd, unsatisfying, and pointless.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> *Sigh*.
> 
> Please provide evidence (beyond Google searches) to support your position regarding the Finsbury Park Mosque.


I haven't actually used Google. I've asked numerous times for you to show I'm without a clue. You've failed. Time I think for you to shut up.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> I think BNP refers to it as 'lynching'



The BNP likely would. That isn't my position, but hey, wank on your own biscuit. It will make you feel better, if nothing else.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> The BNP likely would. That isn't my position, but hey, wank on your own biscuit. It will make you feel better, if nothing else.


Have you got a suitably attuned academic source for that?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I haven't actually used Google. I've asked numerous times for you to show I'm without a clue. You've failed. Time I think for you to shut up.



No. Please provide evidence regarding your apparent expertise regarding Finsbury Park Mosque - without recourse to Google. You can't. 

Citation required. 

None provided.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> Have you got a suitably attuned academic source for that?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> Have you got a suitably attuned academic source for that?



Do you?


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


>


Don't contrive to obviate your erstwhile averment BNP.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> He swallowed a dictionary and vomits forth words at random



He issues books knowing that each separation is a testament to his failure and folly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> No. Please provide evidence regarding your apparent expertise regarding Finsbury Park Mosque - without recourse to Google. You can't.
> 
> Citation required.
> 
> None provided.


Mate, this isn't demonstrating I'm without a clue, it's you demonstrating that you have no alternative to dull repetitions of but it's not fair you know how to search the internet. And, indeed, to do it without Google. I've posted excerpts from one article from the independent, linked to a relatively recent article from the guardian, mentioned a book. All you do, and it's really quite tiresome, is show you're bereft of any knowledge of your own, however garnered. You can and no doubt will whine on and on,but you can do it without me.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 19, 2017)

Corax said:


> Don't contrive to obviate your erstwhile averment BNP.



Citation required. Come on, the field is there - and you have read the material available, no?

No, I guess not.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2017)

I gave you something from the Telegraph n'all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> He issues books knowing that each separation is a testament to his failure and folly.


No it isn't, it's testament to students and staff being able to locate the resources they need but sadly not yet having mastered the self-service technology.


----------



## Corax (Jun 20, 2017)

This has been fun, but even my relatively childish threshold has been crossed now, and it's just tiresome.

BNP, you're a right-wing dick and I've no idea what satisfaction you can possibly get from this tripe. L8r5


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 20, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Mate, this isn't demonstrating I'm without a clue, it's you demonstrating that you have no alternative to dull repetitions of but it's not fair you know how to search the internet. And, indeed, to do it without Google. I've posted excerpts from one article from the independent, linked to a relatively recent article from the guardian, mentioned a book. All you do, and it's really quite tiresome, is show you're bereft of any knowledge of your own, however garnered. You can and no doubt will whine on and on,but you can do it without me.



Mate? I'm not your mate, by way of the verancular or otherwise. So, you make an appeal based on two newspapers and a book (not clear but perhaps 'The Islamist' - published in 2007).

No further comment required.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> I concur with your fantastic above  posting.
> 
> Nooooo, the 'bad' muslims are the ones who have been brainwashed by deobandi/salfi/wahabi imams and clerics.
> 
> ...



Nice. 

What a shit show this thread has turned in to


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

'rothschild khazars' - want to explain what you mean by this? Actually don't. Never mind.


----------



## xenon (Jun 20, 2017)

Would someone like to post with an actual point?  Yes that's directed at you B&P and JC  whatever. 

 Here's mine. 

 Finsbury Park mosque  has been associated with radical terrorist sympathising preecher in the past.  Serving a large community of Muslim people,  Who have no truck with such radical Islamic violent rhetoric.  It has changed, pressure from with in and without the community it seems to me.  Some murderous cunt has not  A care for that and has chosen that as the target of his  alleged murderous activity.  Because it was iconic.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 20, 2017)

xenon said:


> Would someone like to post with an actual point?  Yes that's directed at you B&P and JC  whatever.
> 
> Here's mine.
> 
> Finsbury Park mosque  has been associated with radical terrorist sympathising preecher in the past.  Serving a large community of Muslim people,  Who have no truck with such radical Islamic violent rhetoric.  It has changed, pressure from with in and without the community it seems to me.  Some murderous cunt has not  A care for that and has chosen that as the target of his  alleged murderous activity.  Because it was iconic.



In the past this particular location had been the subject of media speculation and commentary - and with the involvement of the Metropolitan Police Service those associated with a particular narrative were removed and replaced by a new structure / individuals considered to be more 'mainstream'. Not that it is the business of the state to determine the parameters of religious expression - or what is considered normative or premissable. Setting this aside, the allegedly iconic site appears to have been within the purview of an alleged terrorist attack, allegedly involving a white male from Cardiff (in Wales). Not that Cardiff doesn't have sites of importance in regard to the study /exploration / expression(s) of Islam. After all, why go local when you can travel to a site in London - some distance away.

This whole narrative stinks.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> And there you have it. My *professional* and *personal* experience too.




Actually, I find stuff like that Telegraph piece far more substantial than my late night anecdotal musings.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 20, 2017)

The hate-preachers may have deserted Finsbury Park, I don't doubt they are still dotted around, often funded by our Saudi buddies. This government remains truly soft on hate and terror - aided and abetted the Manchester Bombers group FFS.

But whatever the "islamic" hate preachers may be up to, we know that the racist billionaire press is preaching hate from 10,000s of news-stands every day.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 20, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Actually, I find stuff like that Telegraph piece far more substantial than my late night anecdotal musings.



If you read the 'Telegraph' what else would you expect? Douglas Murray with the solution to your problems? Maajid Nawaz? Sara Khan?


----------



## xenon (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> In the past this particular location had been the subject of media speculation and commentary - and with the involvement of the Metropolitan Police Service those associated with a particular narrative were removed and replaced by a new structure / individuals considered to be more 'mainstream'. Not that it is the business of the state to determine the parameters of religious expression - or what is considered normative or premissable. Setting this aside, the allegedly iconic site appears to have been within the purview of an alleged terrorist attack, allegedly involving a white male from Cardiff (in Wales). Not that Cardiff doesn't have sites of importance in regard to the study /exploration / expression(s) of Islam. After all, why go local when you can travel to a site in London - some distance away.
> 
> This whole narrative stinks.



 What stinks about it?   

 The rest of your post, I am leaving aside for now. But I want to know what do you see  about this terrorist attack, what do you make of it?


----------



## xenon (Jun 20, 2017)

It is surely a terrorist attack, or do you disagree?


----------



## Corax (Jun 20, 2017)

More importantly, why the fuck do you insist on using words that it's very clear to _absolutely everyone else_ that you don't _*quite*_ understand the meaning of?  It makes you look a right tit.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> If you read the 'Telegraph' what else would you expect? Douglas Murray with the solution to your problems? Maajid Nawaz? Sara Khan?



I read articles from all over ta. The fact that such evidence is presented in a publication hardly known as a haven of acceptance says a great deal. In common with a lot of people here, I don't really know what you are getting at and suspect your anti-telegraph sneering could be a dissembling ruse.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2017)

Martin Rowson on the Finsbury Park attack – cartoon


----------



## Pac man (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Not that it is the business of the state to determine the parameters of religious expression - or what is considered normative or premissable.


Epic fail.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> In the past this particular location had been the subject of media speculation and commentary - and with the involvement of the Metropolitan Police Service those associated with a particular narrative were removed and replaced by a new structure / individuals considered to be more 'mainstream'. Not that it is the business of the state to determine the parameters of religious expression - or what is considered normative or premissable. Setting this aside, the allegedly iconic site appears to have been within the purview of an alleged terrorist attack, allegedly involving a white male from Cardiff (in Wales). Not that Cardiff doesn't have sites of importance in regard to the study /exploration / expression(s) of Islam. After all, why go local when you can travel to a site in London - some distance away.
> 
> This whole narrative stinks.



You use narrative a lot but don't know what it means. You're clearly even a bit confused about what allegedly means. And the sentence 'what is considered normative' makes no sense. 

I'm sure you think you're impressing people with what you clearly believe to be your impressive vocabulary but in truth you're just making a right twat of yourself. 

Use words you actually understand. Go on, give it a go


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> In the past this particular location had been the subject of media speculation and commentary - and with the involvement of the Metropolitan Police Service those associated with a particular narrative were removed and replaced by a new structure / individuals considered to be more 'mainstream'. Not that it is the business of the state to determine the parameters of religious expression - or what is considered normative or premissable. Setting this aside, the allegedly iconic site appears to have been within the purview of an alleged terrorist attack, allegedly involving a white male from Cardiff (in Wales). Not that Cardiff doesn't have sites of importance in regard to the study /exploration / expression(s) of Islam. After all, why go local when you can travel to a site in London - some distance away.
> 
> This whole narrative stinks.


Being as you now agree with the point that I made on the first page of this thread I do wonder why you felt it necessary to act the clueless wanker last night, bnp


----------



## J.C.Decaux (Jun 20, 2017)

.



Plumdaff said:


> Here's mine.
> 
> Finsbury Park mosque  has been associated with radical terrorist sympathising preecher in the past.  Serving a large community of Muslim people,  Who have no truck with such radical Islamic violent rhetoric.  It has changed, pressure from with in and without the community it seems to me.  Some murderous cunt has not  A care for that and has chosen that as the target of his  alleged murderous activity.  Because it was iconic.



Good posting, but imho, you could have elaborated a bit more in the first sentence, as thus;

Finsbury Park Mosque has been associated with puritanical salafi/wahabi sect preachers, whom were indoctrinating Muslims with their ideaolgy.


----------



## J.C.Decaux (Jun 20, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> 'rothschild khazars' - want to explain what you mean by this? Actually don't. Never mind.




The Hebrews israealites joined the al-Quds on sunday,  so who were the people purporting to represent jew's that were trying to stop it?

The ones that I spoke to had never been to Israel let alone the ME. They couldn't converse in basic Palestinian phrases.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


twaddle


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 20, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> The Rothchilds Khazars want us all to hate all Muslim's.


You do this. You act the dick on the Holocaust thread, and although it was explained to you several times you pretend not to understand. Then you "hide" things like this in posts that you think could be taken as ironic or not, which you don't explain. You think you're being clever, but you're not. Your card's marked. 

People like you are bringing BDS and Palestinian justice movements into disrepute.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 20, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> .
> Good posting, but imho, you could have elaborated a bit more in the first sentence, as thus;
> 
> Finsbury Park Mosque has been associated with puritanical salafi/wahabi sect preachers, whom were indoctrinating Muslims with their ideaolgy.


Why have you quoted me, that's what xenon said.


----------



## elbows (Jun 20, 2017)

A stinking Finsbury Park narrative, pictured yesterday according to our sources.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 20, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> The Rothchilds Khazars want us all to hate all Muslim's.
> 
> .



Wtf is this?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 20, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Wtf is this?


No idea but why are this clown and the other one spouting quasi- academic gobbledygook still allowed on this thread? :/


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 20, 2017)

Just ban the prick.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> n the past this particular location had been the subject of media speculation and commentary - and with the involvement of the Metropolitan Police Service those associated with a particular narrative were removed and replaced by a new structure / individuals considered to be more 'mainstream'. Not that it is the business of the state to determine the parameters of religious expression - or what is considered normative or premissable. Setting this aside, the allegedly iconic site appears to have been within the purview of an alleged terrorist attack, allegedly involving a white male from Cardiff (in Wales). Not that Cardiff doesn't have sites of importance in regard to the study /exploration / expression(s) of Islam. After all, why go local when you can travel to a site in London - some distance away.



Another example is 'purview'. I don't think you really know what it means. And the typos like 'verancular' and  'premissable' are just funny in the context of so much prolixity/verbiage/long-windedness (see, I can do it, only better) and bogus erudition.

The trouble is you're addressing either people who do know what these words mean, so the whole thing reeks of bullshit because nothing rings completely true,or people who don't know what the fuck you're on about.


----------



## bimble (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> In the past this particular location had been the subject of media speculation and commentary - and with the involvement of the Metropolitan Police Service those associated with a particular narrative were removed and replaced by a new structure / individuals considered to be more 'mainstream'. Not that it is the business of the state to determine the parameters of religious expression - or what is considered normative or premissable. Setting this aside, the allegedly iconic site appears to have been within the purview of an alleged terrorist attack, allegedly involving a white male from Cardiff (in Wales). Not that Cardiff doesn't have sites of importance in regard to the study /exploration / expression(s) of Islam. After all, why go local when you can travel to a site in London - some distance away.
> 
> This whole narrative stinks.



I _think _if you translate this into English it says something like: I don't believe that this happened as reported, I suspect some sort of false flag, cos if it really was a white male from Cardiff he'd have just mown down some Muslim people closer to home.


----------



## chilango (Jun 20, 2017)

seventh bullet said:


> Just ban the prick.



Yeah. I can only think of a couple of reasons for chucking phrases like "Rothschild Khazar" into conversation - either you're some variety of far-right/racist or you're pressing those buttons for the lulz. 

Neither should be acceptable round here imho.


----------



## inva (Jun 20, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Wtf is this?


an anti semite


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 20, 2017)

It's either ern trying to cause a stink for the lolz or a far-right scumbucket, imo.


----------



## bimble (Jun 20, 2017)

I don't think its right to say 'far right' when you just mean Jew-hater, tbh.


----------



## chilango (Jun 20, 2017)

bimble said:


> I don't think its right to say 'far right' when you just mean Jew-hater, tbh.



What do you mean?


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 20, 2017)

I don't just mean that, though.


----------



## bimble (Jun 20, 2017)

chilango said:


> What do you mean?


I just mean, in this case for instance, the person clearly hates jews but that is a specific thing and doesn't necessarily go together with being 'far right', i think its ok just to call it what it is.


----------



## dylanredefined (Jun 20, 2017)

xenon said:


> It is surely a terrorist attack, or do you disagree?



Fortunately, a crap one which is a mercy. Is it a terror attack or merely a hate crime?
In the US, the FBI *defines terrorism* as “the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives”.

  I guess it depends if he was a part of a wider network or came up with the idea of this on his own. Hope he spends a long term behind bars. It is a shame with living in a civilised country where chasing him down an alley and stoning him to death would be frowned upon.  The fact the crowd showed restraint is admirable I guess could have saved us some taxpayers money though IMHO.

 I have a sneaking suspicion he attacked this mosque as it was the only one the loon knew about.


----------



## chilango (Jun 20, 2017)

bimble said:


> I just mean, in this case for instance, the person clearly hates jews but that is a specific thing and doesn't necessarily go together with being 'far right', i think its ok just to call it what it is.



They are using pretty niche terminology though...


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Jun 20, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Wtf is this?



Probs some neo-ottomanist antisemitic nutter.

I have to deal with these people on a daily basis. Maybe you can understand why I feel like pitilessly massacring turkish capitalists.

Of course, I hope my fellow english comrades have similar feelings to their native exploiters...


----------



## bimble (Jun 20, 2017)

chilango said:


> They are using pretty niche terminology though...


Yep, nothing particularly right wing about banging on about the Roschchilds though, or about the Khazars thing.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 20, 2017)

He's been trying since he got here to see how much he can get away with. He just needs to go now.


----------



## chilango (Jun 20, 2017)

bimble said:


> Yep, nothing particularly right wing about banging on about the Roschchilds though, or about the Khazars thing.



Well, if such vocabulary has moved out of the far-right and become commonplace elsewhere, then I'm kinda relieved to defer to others' experience of this.


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Jun 20, 2017)

J.C.Decaux said:


> I concur with your fantastic above  posting.
> 
> Nooooo, the 'bad' muslims are the ones who have been brainwashed by deobandi/salfi/wahabi imams and clerics.
> 
> ...



Bet erdogan is ur glorious leader right?

With crap like this muslims in this country don't need any saudi funding.

Tell your fucking imams to treat us like real, living human beings rather than offspring who need to be guarded and sheltered against pernicious western influences.

I mean, I'm a secular muslim, but even so, I'm knowledgeable enough in islamic history to know that mosques were traditionally used as community centres. Today it's more like an obsessive (freudian levels of paranoia) enforcement of nuclear family values. One is hardly able to question, to articulate their own views, to enquire into the early historicity of islamic canonic texts. Mental health and emotional support? Fucking forget it. Ask about historical gender attitudes, muslima theologians? never mind forgetting it, You'll be branded as a dangerous american influenced zionist-modernist (or a protestant muslim if you're lucky.) 

No just leave everything to the community elders and those with the most power in the community (who are generally wealthy men, anyway.) 

You lot are going to have a serious awakening in 20-30 years time. and I'll just be sat here laughing.

Keep on racking in the cash and saying mashallah after every transaction and justifying it with 'allah wants muslims to be rich' (as if this was some profound insight never uttered by anyone before.)

The sooner people realise that state-directed multiculturalism and ethnic isolation is the problem the better.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 20, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Not that Cardiff doesn't have *sites of importance in regard to the study /exploration / expression(s) of Islam.*


Are you for real? 12 words when you could have said 'any mosques'


----------



## IC3D (Jun 20, 2017)

It's annoying that the place is referred to as Finsbury park mosque a lot. It's a community centre that's busy all day and night and nothing to do with the mosque across the road as far as I know.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 20, 2017)

> Police were tonight searching Osborne’s suburban terraced home in Glyn Rhosyn, Pentwyn, for clues as they investigate what they are treating as terrorism and ‘clearly an attack on Muslims’.
> 
> Neighbours told of their shock after seeing pictures of Osborne being arrested by police.
> 
> ...


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

chilango said:


> They are using pretty niche terminology though...



plenty of shite like that by people who consider themselves left wing tho sadly. this shit isn't (only) coming from traditional fash any more.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 20, 2017)

On the long-running  Ukraine thread over in the world politics forum I was swiftly banned after reproducing vile anti-Semitic language seen on a blog,  linked by a poster I disagreed with because of his naivety/sloppiness with regard to info sources. I never used quotation marks and so my attempt to make a point (clumsy and offensive as it was) came to be misunderstood as my own personal view, my post quickly reported to the mods by concerned posters. That was good work.  We shouldn't tolerate the above as well.


----------



## chilango (Jun 20, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> plenty of shite like that by people who consider themselves left wing tho sadly. this shit isn't (only) coming from traditional fash any more.



Really?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

chilango said:


> Really?



yes. shall I PM you? I don't want to derail the thread any more


----------



## chilango (Jun 20, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> shall I PM you? I don't want to derail the thread any more



Yeah, Ta.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 20, 2017)

Hope you're alright frogwoman.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 20, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> plenty of shite like that by people who consider themselves left wing tho sadly. this shit isn't (only) coming from traditional fash any more.


yeah, the people I know who come out with that Rothschild stuff are lefties who also believe in chemtrails and the WTC controlled demolition shite


----------



## inva (Jun 20, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> plenty of shite like that by people who consider themselves left wing tho sadly. this shit isn't (only) coming from traditional fash any more.


yep, although in this particular case there's the context of the poster also being a Nick Griffin fan


----------



## 8den (Jun 20, 2017)

> The Rothchilds Khazars want us


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2017)

inva said:


> yep, although in this particular case there's the context of the poster also being a Nick Griffin fan


not many of those about these days


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 20, 2017)

Banned now. Thanks mods.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 20, 2017)

a woman I work with aplogised on behalf of her partner who drives a white van for brighton council for the terrorist attack #notallwhitevandrivers
 which was nice


----------



## elbows (Jun 20, 2017)

ddraig said:


> View attachment 109702 Someone claiming this posted by son of van hire company, hoping wrong!!



Arrested!

Finsbury Park attack: Son of hire boss held over Facebook post - BBC News



> A man has been arrested on suspicion of posting an offensive Facebook post about the London Finsbury Park attack.
> 
> Police said a 37-year-old, believed to be the son of an owner of the Rhondda Cynon Taff company whose van was used in Monday's attack, is in custody.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 20, 2017)

and the suggestion is he's been fired from his job as well


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

seventh bullet said:


> Hope you're alright frogwoman.



Yeah I'm OK, thanks x


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Jun 20, 2017)

inva said:


> yep, although in this particular case there's the context of the poster also being a Nick Griffin fan



And Albert Pike WW III conspiracy theory by the looks of it.

ETA: never mind.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2017)

Florkleshnort said:


> It is. Violence tends to breed violence.
> 
> I don't quite understand why you think it is tasteless?



It's always so _*thrilling*_ when someone's analysis is deep enough to encompass such sterile banalities as "violence tends to breed violence".  Well done!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2017)

bimble said:


> Beats & Pieces why not just go out on the street and shout random angry noises and stuff at passers-by for catharsis instead of doing it here.  Lot of it about today in this hot weather.



Because passers-by are less likely to engage with rants that mention Jacques Derrida/more likely to give him a shoeing than posters here.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Serious question here. What's wrong with quoting Ed Husain?



Depending on who you believe (and I believe no-one) Husain is either a state asset (i.e. an MI5 agent) leading good Muslims away from righteousness, or an Islamist double agent.  All I'll say about Husain is that I don't believe in treating him as an authority purely based on his work at Quillam.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Depending on who you believe (and I believe no-one) Husain is either a state asset (i.e. an MI5 agent) leading good Muslims away from righteousness, or an Islamist double agent.  All I'll say about Husain is that I don't believe in treating him as an authority purely based on his work at Quillam.



Seriously? What's he said?


----------



## 1927 (Jun 20, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> and the suggestion is he's been fired from his job as well


where are you getting that?


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 20, 2017)

1927 said:


> where are you getting that?



think it was a Telegraph article which stated he is/was employed by Eddie Stobart, that they were aware of the posts and had taken 'appropriate action'


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> why do you have to make your posts so unreadable, Beats & Pieces ?
> It's like you are trying to make yourself as abstruse as you can to demonstrate your intellect



That would be sad, as demonstration of intellect is usually about making abstruse ideas as understandable as possible.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2017)

bimble said:


> Are people cool with the Rothschild Khazars being behind it all  ? Fuck you J.C.Decaux .



I don't take any explanation including "Rothschild Khazars", "Subbotniks" or any sort of "false Jew"/"real Jew" dyad as being worthy of getting angry about. Reference to such is enough to mark the explainer as unworthy of attention.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2017)

seventh bullet said:


> It's either ern trying to cause a stink for the lolz or a far-right scumbucket, imo.



The two might even have become interchangeable, given his sojourn in Norfolk.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Seriously? What's he said?



Someone mentioned him in an article cited, that's all.


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Jun 20, 2017)

Hope you're well

ViolentPanda


----------



## Corax (Jun 20, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Because passers-by are less likely to engage with rants that mention Jacques Derrida/more likely to give him a shoeing than posters here.


Sounds like bimble made a quite _excellent_ suggestion in that case.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Because passers-by are less likely to engage with rants that mention Jacques Derrida/more likely to give him a shoeing than posters here.


Bnp pronounces it jacques derriere


----------



## Corax (Jun 20, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Depending on who you believe (and I believe no-one) Husain is either a state asset (i.e. an MI5 agent) leading good Muslims away from righteousness, or an Islamist double agent.  All I'll say about Husain is that I don't believe in treating him as an authority purely based on his work at Quillam.


Interesting.  I've yet to work out what the earthly point of Quilliam is tbh*, especially after the Yaxley-Lennon debacle.

Would I be right in guessing that similar accusations are levelled at Majid Nawaaz in that case?  I rather like him tbh - or from what I've seen/heard of him as a broadcast journalist anyway.

*ETA: I probably have the same sensation about virtually any other self-described 'think tank' though.  Although I'd still jump at any offer to work for one lol.


----------



## Corax (Jun 20, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Bnp pronounces it jacques derriere


No - BNP linguistically fabricates the articulates of it jacques derriere


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2017)

Corax said:


> No - BNP linguistically fabricates the articulates of it jacques derriere


His labial muscles in conjunction with the measured flow of exhalation vibrate the name of the French thinker in a postmodern manner articulated as jacques derriere


----------



## ddraig (Jun 20, 2017)

the attacker apparently was living in a tent in woodland near to the house he was meant to be living in


----------



## Riklet (Jun 21, 2017)

What a weirdo. Does it seem possible he had some kind of breakdown recently? Driving to London to do this kinda thing.... totally insane.

Also why has B&P not been banned yet? Constant ruining of serious threads


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2017)

this is the scumbag twitter account
Darren Osborne (@DarrenO96801499) on Twitter


----------



## Celyn (Jun 21, 2017)

ddraig said:


> the attacker apparently was living in a tent in woodland near to the house he was meant to be living in


Odd, though, some "newspaper" stories had him living in a very normal and very "nice" house. And being usually civil to his neighbours, some of whom Muslim.

Oh well, the evil sod is looking at a big lot of time in prison.


----------



## Celyn (Jun 21, 2017)

And, given that he has been caught alive, it is possible that he might, with a bit of persuasion, be able to mention other like-minded friends.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 21, 2017)

Corax said:


> Interesting.  I've yet to work out what the earthly point of Quilliam is tbh*, especially after the Yaxley-Lennon debacle.
> 
> Would I be right in guessing that similar accusations are levelled at Majid Nawaaz in that case?  I rather like him tbh - or from what I've seen/heard of him as a broadcast journalist anyway.
> 
> *ETA: I probably have the same sensation about virtually any other self-described 'think tank' though.  Although I'd still jump at any offer to work for one lol.





ViolentPanda said:


> Depending on who you believe (and I believe no-one) Husain is either a state asset (i.e. an MI5 agent) leading good Muslims away from righteousness, or an Islamist double agent.  All I'll say about Husain is that I don't believe in treating him as an authority purely based on his work at Quillam.



Or someone who turned his back on Islamacists and set up an organisation with other ex Islamacists that in my mind has come up with a critique and a strategy that has made more of a significant contribution than anything on the left. 
There are others like Sarah Khan at Inspire who face similar smears .


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Jun 21, 2017)

Corax said:


> Interesting.  I've yet to work out what the earthly point of Quilliam is tbh*, especially after the Yaxley-Lennon debacle.
> 
> Would I be right in guessing that similar accusations are levelled at Majid Nawaaz in that case?  I rather like him tbh - or from what I've seen/heard of him as a broadcast journalist anyway.
> 
> *ETA: I probably have the same sensation about virtually any other self-described 'think tank' though.  Although I'd still jump at any offer to work for one lol.



i wouldn't touch Nawaaz with a bargepole, associating with scum like Kevin Carroll and the Henry Jackson society, as well as being way too soft on bigots like Bill Maher and Sam Harris (who, let's remember in the end of faith) directly advocated racial profiling and nuking muslims if necessary.

The quilliam lot play into that abstract idea of the scriptures/teachings/theology being perverted without realising that the interpretations of scriptures correlate to whoever wields power. Scripture itself can't be divorced from material, political and social circumstances and relationships.

And I'm afraid (for so-called moderates) I'm not on the side of conservatism, even with a small c.

Daddy needs to be abolished.


----------



## 8den (Jun 21, 2017)

Spoiler: Cause it's fucking rank.








Edited cause no one needs to see that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 109819


Vom


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 21, 2017)

Police use stun gun on attack suspect at Regent's Park mosque

bloody hell


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 21, 2017)

ddraig said:


> this is the scumbag twitter account
> Darren Osborne (@DarrenO96801499) on Twitter



Following Channel 4 News and Nicola Sturgeon, the piece of shit liberal elite filth.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 21, 2017)

ddraig said:


> this is the scumbag twitter account
> Darren Osborne (@DarrenO96801499) on Twitter



How do we know this? Wouldn't it have been deleted?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> How do we know this? Wouldn't it have been deleted?


why would it have been deleted?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> How do we know this? Wouldn't it have been deleted?


was reported with a screen shot, i typed in the long user name and copied the link


----------



## Raheem (Jun 21, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> why would it have been deleted?



My impression is that that's what normally happens with the social media accounts of high-profile murderers. But what's the reason for thinking this is the guy's account? Seems sus that it was set up in June 2017.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> My impression is that that's what normally happens with the social media accounts of high-profile murderers. But what's the reason for thinking this is the guy's account? Seems sus that it was set up in June 2017.


he's not touted as a high profile murderer tho is he
what's sus about it?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jun 21, 2017)

He's being followed by all manner of journos ...


----------



## Raheem (Jun 21, 2017)

ddraig said:


> he's not touted as a high profile murderer tho is he



Wut?



> what's sus about it?



Because June 2017 doesn't preclude the account being post hoc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> My impression is that that's what normally happens with the social media accounts of high-profile murderers. But what's the reason for thinking this is the guy's account? Seems sus that it was set up in June 2017.


perhaps he realised he didn't have a twitter a/c like all the big boy murderers and set one up and never got round to using it, and as soon as he was in custody remembered that he'd forgotten to delete it


----------



## Raheem (Jun 21, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> perhaps he realised he didn't have a twitter a/c like all the big boy murderers and set one up and never got round to using it, and as soon as he was in custody remembered that he'd forgotten to delete it



Perhaps or perhaps not.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Perhaps or perhaps not.


perhaps you shouldn't worry to much about it


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Wut?
> 
> 
> 
> Because June 2017 doesn't preclude the account being post hoc.



It may or may not be real, but it's a bit too convenient that he set up an account in June and followed a bunch of far right nutjobs, some celebrities and nobody who is an actual mate? 

Perhaps Twitter will oblige with a blue tick...


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2017)

halfway down this page
Finsbury Park attack suspect named as Cardiff resident Darren Osborne


> Osborne also appears to have a Twitter account, which he has never used to send his own tweets, instead monitoring 32 other users, including Paul Golding and Jayda Fransen, the leaders of the far right party Britain First. Its mission statement states: “We will restore Christianity as the bedrock and foundation of our national life as it has been for the last one thousand years.”


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Wut?
> 
> 
> 
> Because June 2017 doesn't preclude the account being post hoc.


is he being called a high profile murderer?
so what?


----------



## Raheem (Jun 21, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> perhaps you shouldn't worry to much about it



Perhaps.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Perhaps.


but perhaps not.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 21, 2017)

ddraig said:


> is he being called a high profile murderer?
> so what?



I asked a really simple question. Is there any reason to think the account is actually his? There's isn't? Great, thanks.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> I asked a really simple question. Is there any reason to think the account is actually his? There's isn't? Great, thanks.


by the same token is there any reason to think the account isn't his?


----------



## Raheem (Jun 21, 2017)

ddraig said:


> by the same token is there any reason to think the account isn't his?



Have I not covered that?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2017)

ddraig said:


> this is the scumbag twitter account
> Darren Osborne (@DarrenO96801499) on Twitter


No tweets, no replies, no likes, no profile pic, a username that appears to include a mobile phone number. And he follows Zoella.

Either this is someone who doesn't use twitter or it was set up by someone else.


----------



## Corax (Jun 21, 2017)

gentlegreen said:


> He's being followed by all manner of journos ...


And some bloke who's proudly got his sister pregnant.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2017)

Some joker has added him to a list of "Friends of Daesh", though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2017)

The list curator:


----------



## bimble (Jun 22, 2017)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2017)

"Darren Osborne, 47, charged with terrorism-related murder and attempted murder after Finsbury Park attack."

Man charged over Finsbury Park attack - BBC News


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 25, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Are you for real? 12 words when you could have said 'any mosques'



No, because that would be too limiting. It isn't just about 'mosques', and hasn't been for a considerable time.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 25, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Depending on who you believe (and I believe no-one) Husain is either a state asset (i.e. an MI5 agent) leading good Muslims away from righteousness, or an Islamist double agent.  All I'll say about Husain is that I don't believe in treating him as an authority purely based on his work at Quillam.



That is likely true of him and his famous 'I have a show on LBC' friend.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 25, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Epic fail.



Really? I think you ought to take some time to consider that point. It might be _your_ door next, eh?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 25, 2017)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Another example is 'purview'. I don't think you really know what it means. And the typos like 'verancular' and  'premissable' are just funny in the context of so much prolixity/verbiage/long-windedness (see, I can do it, only better) and bogus erudition.
> 
> The trouble is you're addressing either people who do know what these words mean, so the whole thing reeks of bullshit because nothing rings completely true,or people who don't know what the fuck you're on about.



But the fact is, they _don't_. Setting the typos aside - written in anger - the points remain valid. So, setting aside your abuse - what exactly do you think you are trying to say?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 25, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Because passers-by are less likely to engage with rants that mention Jacques Derrida/more likely to give him a shoeing than posters here.



A 'shoeing'?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 25, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> A 'shoeing'?



A shoeing, a leathering, a damned good thrashing!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> A shoeing, a leathering, a damned good thrashing!


Bnp would pay good money for that


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> But the fact is, they _don't_. Setting the typos aside - written in anger - the points remain valid. So, setting aside your abuse - what exactly do you think you are trying to say?



I'm saying that for all anybody knows your points are valid but you alienate people by misusing words and using four words when one would do. I'm joining a chorus of people saying much the same:


Orang Utan said:


> no, i don't but i find your use of language annoying. you need to start speaking in plain language if you want people to take you seriously.





Corax said:


> More importantly, why the fuck do you insist on using words that it's very clear to _absolutely everyone else_ that you don't _*quite*_ understand the meaning of? It makes you look a right tit.





SpineyNorman said:


> You use narrative a lot but don't know what it means. You're clearly even a bit confused about what allegedly means. And the sentence 'what is considered normative' makes no sense.
> 
> I'm sure you think you're impressing people with what you clearly believe to be your impressive vocabulary but in truth you're just making a right twat of yourself.
> 
> Use words you actually understand. Go on, give it a go



And these are just some of the comments. You also had the piss taken in posts imitating your writing style. 

I merely agree with these people. Or I am in a narrative place of augmenting concurrence with a group dynamic, if you prefer.

Now can we not smeg up this thread any more? There really isn't anything to add.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> In the past this particular location had been the subject of media speculation and commentary - and with the involvement of the Metropolitan Police Service those associated with a particular narrative were removed and replaced by a new structure / individuals considered to be more 'mainstream'. Not that it is the business of the state to determine the parameters of religious expression - or what is considered normative or premissable. Setting this aside, the allegedly iconic site appears to have been within the purview of an alleged terrorist attack, allegedly involving a white male from Cardiff (in Wales). Not that Cardiff doesn't have sites of importance in regard to the study /exploration / expression(s) of Islam. After all, why go local when you can travel to a site in London - some distance away.
> 
> This whole narrative stinks.


Being as you now agree with the point I was making, I ask again: why did you feel the need to act - if act it was - the clueless wanker?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 26, 2017)

Just imagine you're in the local and BNP is the drunk pub bore waxing lyrical about topics he has no comprehension of in language of which he has only the faintest familiarity. 

Ignore the twat in other words.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 26, 2017)

SpineyNorman said:


> Just imagine you're in the local and BNP is the drunk pub bore waxing lyrical about topics he has no comprehension of in language of which he has only the faintest familiarity.
> 
> Ignore the twat in other words.


Ashby-de-la-Zouche, Rodney, Ashby-de-la-Zouche


----------



## Corax (Jun 26, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> No tweets, no replies, no likes, no profile pic, a username that appears to include a mobile phone number. And he follows Zoella.
> 
> Either this is someone who doesn't use twitter or it was set up by someone else.


And you just _*know*_ that this will be cited as evidence he was a spook asset by the tinfoilhattery crowd.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 26, 2017)

'A quiet, gentle man': Tribute to Finsbury Park Mosque attack victim revealed to have died of multiple injuries

Finsbury Park attack suspect was probably 'self-radicalised'

Boy, 13, reported to anti-terror scheme for celebrating mosque attack


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> A shoeing, a leathering, a damned good thrashing!



This is the internet so posturing is, obviously, a given. As to your apparent point - we have spoken via pm so I'll ignore the suggestion. Out of respect for you as an individual, and your (generally) well thought out posts here. I really have no desire to be rude to you VP, in any way.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> This is the internet so posturing is, obviously, a given. As to your apparent point - we have spoken via pm so I'll ignore the suggestion. Out of respect for you as an individual, and your (generally) well thought out posts here. I really have no desire to be rude to you VP, in any way.



Jesus. And VP thinks im thick.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Bnp would pay good money for that



Depending on the age of the child invoved, I supect you might too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Depending on the age of the child invoved, I supect you might too.


No one else has suggested a child's involvement. You might want to think carefully before your next post.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> No one else has suggested a child's involvement. You might want to think carefully before your next post.



*You* ought to think carefully too. Maybe you should place me on ignore and I'll do the same (at least as far as U75 is involved).


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> *You* ought to think carefully too. Maybe you should place me on ignore and I'll do the same (at least as far as U75 is involved).


Maybe you should explain what you meant by your last post.

And what's this 'at least as far as u75 is involved' meant to be?


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Depending on the age of the child invoved, I supect you might too.



Unacceptable.


----------



## Corax (Jun 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Maybe you should explain what you meant by your last post.
> 
> And what's this 'at least as far as u75 is involved' meant to be?


It means he's going to hide in the shrubbery outside your front gate with a zoom lens.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Corax said:


> It means he's going to hide in the shrubbery outside your front gate with a zoom lens.


A shrubbery?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Depending on the age of the child invoved, I supect you might too.


I think you just used your last chance.


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## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

Corax said:


> It means he's going to hide in the shrubbery outside your front gate with a zoom lens.



You found your biscuit yet?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> I think you just used your last chance.



It is a cross-thread thing. Something that often gets used by some individuals here (despite the rules against it).


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## B.I.G (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> It is a cross-thread thing. Something that often gets used by some individuals here (despite the rules against it).



People are always using the slur of buying child sex across threads. Standard. 

If you are a sick fuck maybe.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> It is a cross-thread thing. Something that often gets used by some individuals here (despite the rules against it).


Yeh? But you're still reluctant to spell out what you meant, or which thread it's crossed from.


----------



## editor (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Depending on the age of the child invoved, I supect you might too.


Please explain yourself clearly _before_ posting anything else.


----------



## Corax (Jun 26, 2017)

editor said:


> Please explain yourself clearly _before_ posting anything else.





Beats & Pieces said:


> You found your biscuit yet?


And that as well if you don't mind.  I've not got a fecking clue what the reference is to?


----------



## Corax (Jun 26, 2017)

See, this is why we really need to get them to re-open Club Penguin.


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## Treacle Toes (Jun 26, 2017)

Is this being widely reported? 

Happened yesterday...



> Marek Zakrocki, 48, of Alexandra Avenue, Rayners Lane, was charged with multiple offences on Sunday (June 25) after the "hate crime".
> 
> He is accused of attempted murder, racially aggravated criminal damage, racially aggravated section 4 public order, drink driving, possession of an offensive weapon in a public place, possession of a bladed article in a public place, aggravated taking and driving away, assault by beating and racially aggravated assault by beating.



Attempted murder arrest after van collides with restaurant


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## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Corax said:


> See, this is why we really need to get them to re-open Club Penguin.


There are club biscuits. And there are penguin biscuits. But there are no club penguin biscuits.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

editor said:


> Please explain yourself clearly _before_ posting anything else.



I do wonder why you have chosen *now* to involve yourself in this thread - after all the insults have been flying around without any prior intercession from the Moderators - including you?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Depending on the age of the child invoved, I supect you might too.



So you are calling him a nonce and admitting you are too? Eh?


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## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> So you are calling him a nonce and admitting you are too? Eh?



Absolutely not - but then you do like throwing around labels when it suits you.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Absolutely not - but then you do like throwing around labels when it suits you.



I am reflecting your own _labelling/insinuations_ back to you you twit. You accused him of being a nonce and your post implies you would also consider it too depending on the age of the child. If you didn't mean to write that perhaps you should think more carefully about what you post. Arsehole.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 26, 2017)

Hasn't even apologised to Pickman's model after something so unacceptable. Surely a ban is in order.


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## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> I am reflecting your own _labelling/insinuations_ back to you you twit. You accused him of being a nonce and your post implies you would also consider it too depending on the age of the child. If you didn't mean to write that perhaps you should think more carefully about what you post. Arsehole.



Really? No I didn't - where is that specific accusation and wording? Don't try and be clever - you have made a number of unfounded accusations towards me in the past based on no evidence except your assumptions - and some kind of assumed authority based on your position and intersectionality and some form of alleged 'authenticity'.
Allegedly.


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## editor (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I do wonder why you have chosen *now* to involve yourself in this thread - after all the insults have been flying around without any prior intercession from the Moderators - including you?


You can wonder all you like, but unless you explain what appears to be particularly nasty insinuations of paedophilia - and explain why you've brought them up in a thread about such a serious topic - then you're going to be banned for disruptive conduct. 

So kindly now explain yourself.


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## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Really? No I didn't - where is that specific accusation and wording? Don't try and be clever - you have made a number of unfounded accusations towards me in the past based on no evidence except your assumptions - and some kind of assumed authority based on your position and intersectionality and some form of alleged 'authenticity'.
> Allegedly.


_Too_


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## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> Hasn't even apologised to Pickman's model after something so unacceptable. Surely a ban is in order.



Given that I've apologised to PM in the past here - you might want to reconsider your apparent virtue signalling.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 26, 2017)

Rutita1 he will be banned by the time you reply. Don't bother.


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## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

editor said:


> You can wonder all you like, but unless you explain what appears to be particularly nasty insinuations of paedophilia - and explain why you've brought them up in a thread about such a serious topic - then you're going to be banned for disruptive conduct.
> 
> So kindly now explain yourself.



Where have I done such a thing? Maybe you should read the Oscar Wilde thread and defence - with PM's contribution in respect of age fluidity.


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## editor (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Given that I've apologised to PM in the past here - you might want to reconsider your apparent virtue signalling.


Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Unless your next post in this thread directly answers my questions, you will be banned.


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## editor (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Where have I done such a thing? Maybe you should read the Oscar Wilde thread and defence - with PM's contribution in respect of age fluidity.


Then explain _clearly_ what you meant by your comment, and why you brought it up in a thread about a terrorist incident. Absolute last chance because I'm losing patience with your prevarication.


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## B.I.G (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Given that I've apologised to PM in the past here - you might want to reconsider your apparent virtue signalling.



Virtue signalling? To Pickman's? He might prefer a smoke signal caused by someone throwing me on the fire. 

Virtue signalling against paedophilia. Im against child abuse. 

Praise me oh urban forum members.


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## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> Virtue signalling? To Pickman's? He might prefer a smoke signal caused by someone throwing me on the fire.
> 
> Virtue signalling against paedophilia. Im against child abuse.
> 
> Praise me oh urban forum members.


How about you give it a rest and all?


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## editor (Jun 26, 2017)

This thread has already been taken way off topic, so I'd be grateful if people kept to the topic of this terrorist attack and I'll deal with B&P. Thank you.


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## B.I.G (Jun 26, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> How about you give it a rest and all?



Terrible comment.


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## Treacle Toes (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Really? No I didn't - where is that specific accusation and wording? Don't try and be clever - you have made a number of unfounded accusations towards me in the past based on no evidence except your assumptions - and some kind of assumed authority based on your position and intersectionality and some form of alleged 'authenticity'.
> Allegedly.



Trying to be clever?  This is the problem with you lad you THINK you are clever and you seriously are not. You are a prize plum and you can't help but try to adopt some pathetically imagined, intellectualised authority based on jack shit as I can see.

There is nothing wrong with my reading of you. You are transparent, a ten-a-penny twit that posts bilge, like you are trying to defend today. Cue you postinng more gobbledygook because plain speaking isn't something you can manage with this ridiculous social scientist/anthropological persona you are trying to sell. The worst Victorian kind at that, and you don't even realise it.


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## sealion (Jun 26, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> You are a prize plum


Havn't heard that one in a while. Ta


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## editor (Jun 26, 2017)

Anyway. Terrorist incident. Important topic. Can we talk about that and I'll deal with B&P when he replies to my request for clarification.


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## Beats & Pieces (Jun 26, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Trying to be clever?  This is the problem with you lad you THINK you are clever and your seriously are not. You are a prize plum and you can't help but try to adopt some pathetically imagined, intellectualised authority based on jack shit as I can see.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with my reading of you. You are transparent, a ten-a-penny twit that posts bilge, like you are trying to defend today. Cue you postinng more gobbledygook because plain speaking isn't something you can manage with this ridiculous social scientist/anthropological persona you are trying to sell. The worst Victorian kind at that, and you don't even realise it.



Dear God, the irony. Best leave you alone to continue in your confusion and self-professed authenticity then. Socially constructed too.


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## Treacle Toes (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Dear God, the irony. Best leave you alone to continue in your confusion and self-professed authenticity then. Socially constructed too.



God? 

...and you imagine me confused?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Dear God, the irony. Best leave you alone to continue in your confusion and self-professed authenticity then. Socially constructed too.



On top of everything else this crap you are coming out with is on a loop too. This is you back in Aug 2016:

"So here we have the 'authenticity' position stated clearly, with reference to gender and (presumably) colour/race/ethnicity/phenotype (delete and use as appropriate according to the positional and situational axis).:" 

In response to same commenter. Piss off.


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## editor (Jun 26, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Dear God, the irony. Best leave you alone to continue in your confusion and self-professed authenticity then. Socially constructed too.


OK. Week ban it is then.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 27, 2017)

editor said:


> OK. Week ban it is then.



Typical fucking liberal with your one week bans!   What happened to sending people to the salt mines, eh?  Against health and safety, is it?


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## Beats & Pieces (Jul 3, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Typical fucking liberal with your one week bans!   What happened to sending people to the salt mines, eh?  Against health and safety, is it?



You going to try and send me there personally? I doubt that.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 3, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You going to try and send me there personally? I doubt that.


Did you ever explain how you got from a reply of mine on another thread - a reply to someone else, btw, so you don't even have any argument on that score with which to defend yourself - did you ever explain satisfactorily how you went from that to your accusation of paedophilia above?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 3, 2017)




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## Pickman's model (Jul 3, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


>



Don't think we'd hear the end of it if a similar accusation had been made against you, you'd be storming against anyone who made light of it by posting a video like that.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 3, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You going to try and send me there personally? I doubt that.



Please give me your address, so that I can send you a small sum of money to buy yourself a sliver of a sense of humour, you humourless gibbon fart.


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## Beats & Pieces (Jul 4, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Did you ever explain how you got from a reply of mine on another thread - a reply to someone else, btw, so you don't even have any argument on that score with which to defend yourself - did you ever explain satisfactorily how you went from that to your accusation of paedophilia above?



Was that the accusation I made explicitly? Or are you offering a window in to your psyche? 

Just to be clear, before you (and your friends) start complaining to the moderators.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jul 4, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Please give me your address, so that I can send you a small sum of money to buy yourself a sliver of a sense of humour, you humourless gibbon fart.



Please give me your address and I'll make you a tea / coffee.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Was that the accusation I made explicitly? Or are you offering a window in to your psyche?
> 
> Just to be clear, before you (and your friends) start complaining to the moderators.


If it is not the message you desired to convey I am sure you would have told editor what you in fact meant.


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## Treacle Toes (Jul 4, 2017)

> ‘The fun will continue this August.
> 
> ‘There will be rivers of blood flowing down the streets — I will make sure of this. None of you vermin will survive. I mean who would survive being gassed, or beheaded, or blown up.’
> 
> ...




Finsbury Park mosque sent threatening letters promising 'rivers of blood'


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## Treacle Toes (Jul 11, 2017)

Handwritten death threats sent to at least three London mosques



> Counter-terrorism police are investigating after handwritten death threats were sent to at least three London mosques.
> 
> Police have launched a probe into the menacing letters, one of which contained white powder and was sent to a Muslim primary school.
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Jan 22, 2018)

Trial is on, handwritten note found in van is quite, err, something hideous with all the usual tropes gathered conveniently together.

Man 'wanted to kill Muslims in van attack'



> One part read: "Don't people get it, this is happening up and down our Green and pleasant land.
> 
> "Ferrel [feral] inbred raping muslim men hunting in packs preying on our children, this will be coming to a town near you soon, it most probably has, get back to the desert, you raping inbred bastards & climb back on ya camels."
> 
> ...





> Mr Osborne's partner, Sarah Andrews, described him as a "loner and a functioning alcoholic" with an "unpredictable temperament", Mr Rees added.
> 
> He had become "obsessed" with Muslims in the weeks leading up to the incident after watching BBC drama Three Girls, about the Rochdale grooming scandal, Ms Andrews had said.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 22, 2018)

how fucking long did it take em to find the note!



> Mr Osborne planned to make "a public statement by killing Muslims", knowing that his handwritten note would be recovered, Mr Rees added.
> 
> Although Mr Osborne was not charged with a terrorist offence, Mr Rees said "the note and the comments he made after his detention establish that this act of extreme violence was, indeed, an act of terrorism".


----------



## elbows (Jan 23, 2018)

Messages sent by Tommy Robinson to Finsbury Park terror suspect revealed in court



> Mr Osborne received at least two direct Twitter messages from Tommy Robinson, the far-right former EDL leader whose real name is Stephen Yaxley Lennon, the court has heard





> The first direct message from Mr Robinson, concerned the Manchester attack.
> Read to the court by Mr Rees, it said: "Dear Darren...What Salman Abedi did is not the beginning and it won’t be the end. There is a nation within a nation forming just beneath the surface of the UK...built on hatred, violence and Islam."
> 
> The message alleged Abedi's local mosque had a Sharia court, hosted radical preachers and had not be closed down, adding: "Politicians have failed to take the necessary steps to keep us safe.
> ...





> The second direct Twitter message from Tommy Robinson to Mr Osborne came on 14 June and detailed the campaign for 'justice' for a woman whose rapists were not prosecuted, the court has heard.
> 
> "Dear Darren, we know about he terrible crimes committed against [name redacted] of Sunderland...police let the suspects go and why?
> It is because the suspects are refugees from Syria and Iraq, it’s a national outrage…I know you will be there for her and we will get her the justice she deserves."
> ...





> Mr Osborne directly communicated with the deputy leader of Britain First, Jayda Fransen, the court has heard.
> Mr Rees said he received a 'direct message' from Ms Fransen on the day he joined Twitter on 3 J
> "Hot on the heels of receiving that message on Twitter from Jayda Fransen there’s the London Bridge attack," he added.
> In the hours after that attack, Mr Osborne repeatedly searched for more information on Ms Fransen, read her tweets, and looked for information on the killing of Christians in the Phillipines.


----------



## elbows (Jan 23, 2018)

Also lots of evidence in that same article from people in the pub where he was ranting. He got kicked out of the pub in the end but clearly some people feel bad that they didnt manage to do anything that night that could have prevented the attacks.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 23, 2018)

elbows said:


> Also lots of evidence in that same article from people in the pub where he was ranting. He got kicked out of the pub in the end but clearly some people feel bad that they didnt manage to do anything that night that could have prevented the attacks.


you don't expect some mouthy cunt to go off and drive a van into a load of people helping an ill man


----------



## elbows (Jan 23, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> you don't expect some mouthy cunt to go off and drive a van into a load of people helping an ill man



I'm certainly not blaming any of them, just reporting that the completely understandable reaction of 'would have done more if I'd known what was going to happen' has been on display today.


----------



## likesfish (Jan 23, 2018)

If mouthy twats were handed over to the police the Uk would cease to function.

If you were a conspirloon this is the sort of patsy you’d dream up he’s like the mirror  image of the attacker a no name who killed a complete stranger for no rwason


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## Fozzie Bear (Jan 24, 2018)

It's been a while since I met someone in a pub who used to be in the SAS, London was full of them in the eighties.


----------



## elbows (Jan 24, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It's been a while since I met someone in a pub who used to be in the SAS, London was full of them in the eighties.



I knew someone like that in the early 90's up north. He had an added degree of comedy bad timing with his claims - told me he didnt need to wear a seatbelt because he had a gun license and then within 2 weeks got fined for not wearing a seatbelt.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 24, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It's been a while since I met someone in a pub who used to be in the SAS, London was full of them in the eighties.



did they make him do it out of alphabetical order? I can do it A B C but see when they cannae understand my accent on the phone I am like E for Elderberries when they start using it. I feel like a cunt for laughing /


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 24, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It's been a while since I met someone in a pub who used to be in the SAS, London was full of them in the eighties.



SAS= Saturday and Sundays


----------



## likesfish (Jan 25, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> did they make him do it out of alphabetical order? I can do it A B C but see when they cannae understand my accent on the phone I am like E for Elderberries when they start using it. I feel like a cunt for laughing /





The39thStep said:


> SAS= Saturday and Sundays


SWAT some weekends and tuesday nights


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 30, 2018)

Dave did it....

Mosque attack suspect hoped to kill Corbyn


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 30, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Dave did it....
> 
> Mosque attack suspect hoped to kill Corbyn



...and The Taffia (including Terry Jones)


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 30, 2018)

From a Twitter account reporting on he trial



> Did you intend for any serious harm to be done to muslims? "No," says Osborne. Prosecution now cross examining him. "Do you often travel in the footwell when driving to get a drink?" prosecution asks? "No, I was taking my trousers off," Osborne says. #FinsburyPark


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 30, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> From a Twitter account reporting on he trial


Ah, I see that the defence team is going for the _load of old cobblers_ gambit


----------



## likesfish (Jan 31, 2018)

well evidence of ranting about Muslims and dragged from a Van after running into Muslims and admitting it, Dave did it and ran away is probably his best bet


----------



## ruffneck23 (Feb 1, 2018)

Guilty , his defence, an illusionist like dynamo called dave was driving then vanished

Finsbury Park mosque terror attacker found guilty of murder


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 1, 2018)




----------



## likesfish (Feb 1, 2018)

so “Dave” the fanatical Muslim killer is still out there.


Maybe the police can spend the next ten years “infiltrating” crap pubs trying to find Dave whowas in the SAS honest and a bit racist


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 1, 2018)

What a fucking shit defence he put up, surprised the brief didn't crack up in his closing statement.

Then again it is in keeping with all these terrorist offenders who are caught red handed, pleading not-guilty and then mounting the shittest defence imaginable.

Jury took an hour.  Were they having a game of monopoly in there?


----------



## likesfish (Feb 1, 2018)

Guess it’s we can’t just file back in there can we.
  Who wants a cuppa?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 1, 2018)

likesfish said:


> Guess it’s we can’t just file back in there can we.
> Who wants a cuppa?


No, you never let it brew long enough


----------



## D'wards (Feb 2, 2018)

Jailed for life with a minimum of 43 years to serve.

Good...now let his name be forgotten


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 2, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Jailed for life with a minimum of 43 years to serve.
> 
> Good...now let his name be forgotten


i'll always associate him with that god-awful chancellor we had a few years back


----------



## ruffneck23 (Feb 2, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Jailed for life with a minimum of 43 years to serve.
> 
> Good...now let his name be forgotten



Good riddance


----------



## GarveyLives (Feb 2, 2018)

> Jailed for life with a minimum of 43 years to serve.
> 
> Good...now let his name be forgotten





Osborne had previously appeared before the courts on 33 occasions for 102 offences over a period of more than 30 years, including a number of violent offences.

He drove 150 miles to carry out a pre-planned murderous attack against civilians, used language that could not be repeated in court when formally interviewed by police and then, faced with overwhelming evidence at trial, not only pleaded not guilty but tried to turn the court into a circus by making up a 'defence' that he had not even previously told his lawyers as he was giving 'evidence'.

A 43 year minimum term of imprisonment sounds about right and lets any others know what they can expect.


----------



## GarveyLives (Sep 13, 2021)

> _"The *terrorist* behind an attack on the Finsbury Park mosque in London may lose sight in one eye after a prison attack, a court has heard ..."_



Finsbury Park mosque attacker fears eye loss after prison stabbing






(Source: Metropolitan Police)

*Darren Osborne:  As a man soweth?*​


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 13, 2021)

GarveyLives said:


> Finsbury Park mosque attacker fears eye loss after prison stabbing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh dear.

What a shame.

Still, never mind.


----------

