# BYO: Big-up Your Organisation



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 3, 2005)

with all this bickering over ideology, i feel it is time for ppl to talk about action not talk about talk.

What has your organisation done in the last month that your proud of?

Deadpan lists or flowery anecdotes are welcome. I'd especially like to hear from the organisation with the most mebers on this site - you know who you are 

Go for it.


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## Pilgrim (Nov 3, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> with all this bickering over ideology, i feel it is time for ppl to talk about action not talk about talk.
> 
> What has your organisation done in the last month that your proud of?
> 
> ...



Well, I joined the Anarchist Federation at the Bookfair, having been a supporter for a couple of months beforehand:

1. They didn't mind about my being a member of other organisations (Greenpeace and Trident Ploughshares to be exact).

2. They didn't pester me endlessly to buy merchandise, or pay unreasonable subs, or make me into a drone who is incapable of articulating an independent thought.

3. They didn't make me stand outside Plymouth Station, in the pissing rain and stormy wind, trying desperately (and failing miserably) at going up to people and saying: "Come on, my branch organiser is over there. Please buy just _one_ paper. Please."

4. They made even a space-cadet like me welcome. I actually felt I could have an honest and open conversation without being told off for saying the 'wrong' thing or having non Party-approved opinions.

I thoroughly like the AF.

Come on, join us.

You know you want to.


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## Random (Nov 3, 2005)

Oh, the enthusiasm of a recent convert <shakes head>


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## kasheem (Nov 3, 2005)

Big up Combat-18. A shout out to all my brothers infiltrating this forum. They don't have a clue...


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## mk12 (Nov 3, 2005)

Participated in the anti-BNP demo outside Griffin's court appearance thingy.


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## Sorry. (Nov 3, 2005)

mattkidd12 said:
			
		

> Participated in the anti-BNP demo outside Griffin's court appearance thingy.



what did your placards say? "Convict the bastard" "Ban the fascist BNP"? I was wondering when Revo invited me to it...


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 3, 2005)

kasheem said:
			
		

> Big up Combat-18. A shout out to all my brothers infiltrating this forum. They don't have a clue...


no we don't.


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## mk12 (Nov 3, 2005)

Sorry. said:
			
		

> what did your placards say? "Convict the bastard" "Ban the fascist BNP"? I was wondering when Revo invited me to it...



No. A nice neutral "stop the fascist BNP".


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## oisleep (Nov 3, 2005)

did your lot not stop the war as well matt?


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## mk12 (Nov 3, 2005)

oisleep said:
			
		

> did your lot not stop the war as well matt?



Nearly.


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## where to (Nov 3, 2005)

mattkidd12 said:
			
		

> Nearly.


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## Japey (Nov 4, 2005)

Organised an apple day - a day in celebration of the humble apple.  Made lots of apple juice that gave the local kids windy pops.


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## Bajie (Nov 4, 2005)

well I am a member and 'activist' in Unison and generally they are a bunch of wankers.


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## Larry O'Hara (Nov 4, 2005)

numerous covert operations, with 78% success--but Agent Q has stated I must not disclose more.


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## Chuck Wilson (Nov 4, 2005)

External Faction of Workers Power- 

Monday: woke up got out of bed dragged a come across my head went down stairs but forgot to put trousers on.stopped the war in Iraq for a good five minutes but then decided that it might be more revolutionary if we let the Iraqi resistance win so its back on.

Tuesday- stuck our tongues out at some BNP members when they weren't looking

Wednesday- tackled world debt 

Thursday- dropped crisp packet in street in protest against Blairs police state

Friday- called for total and undying left unity around a revolutionary platform that we had written specially for the occasion with me as leader.

Saturday- set up faction to fight for revolutionary leadership of the above

Sunday- split from said organisation on grounds that it is not really revolutionary enough and but held a reunifaction conference with the idea of reforming it but without the reformist elements.Wrote letter to local paper about why the Friends of Pets Corner in the Park should be forced to open their books and face a workers inquiry. Bought stamp.


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## oisleep (Nov 4, 2005)

christ you don't rest on a sunday


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## Rob Ray (Nov 4, 2005)

Recently... fairly pleased with some of the recent Freedom articles we've been putting out, reports on all sorts of interesting stuff. Quite pleased with ipswich anarchs reaching its second anniversary without collapsing and generally getting more organised, v pleased with the Easf website (though more people could stand to contribute). Impressed with workplace leaflets Solfed have got, and the fact the website's finally been kind of sorted out.


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## cats hammers (Nov 4, 2005)

Got the Endpage Archive back on line after it went down, and people were left having to go to more than 1 place to Find Herman Gorter, Anton Pannekoek and Raya Dunayevskaya articles.


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Glad to hear that - i need to get my scanner out again.


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## aurora green (Nov 4, 2005)

Pilgrim said:
			
		

> Well, I joined the Anarchist Federation at the Bookfair, having been a supporter for a couple of months beforehand:
> 
> 1. They didn't mind about my being a member of other organisations (Greenpeace and Trident Ploughshares to be exact).
> 
> ...




So what _does_  AF expect from you, as a signed up memeber?
And how active do you expect to be?


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## rebel warrior (Nov 4, 2005)

League for the Sixth International (PCC-PPAW) - 

Over the last month (our first month) we have gone from strength to strength.  As well as our successful launch of the Sixth International, we made a real impact in the protest against Nick Griffin outside the court in Leeds this week.  As one young comrade of ours (currently working as an entrist in Revo) described the demo, (please ignore the spelling mistakes)



> overall id give the demo 6.5 out of 10 ......
> a decent turnout of mainly young people .....with a highler level of militancy than expected .....although thanks to the shitty stewards the fash scored a miny victory as we walked off without with them laughing at us....
> 
> the first battle in a long war.......
> ...



Our main task is to continue working inside Revo, and trying to win those people away from the their illusions in the Fifth International towards the Sixth International. However, given the apparent failure of the external faction of WP to get RETRO up and going, we are also looking towards future possible unity with the external faction of WP.  The Fifth International have described our unity offensive in this regard as akin to 'a bint trying to get into [Dr Chuck Wilsons] crowd', but they secretly fear and resent our growing strength and their resort to sexist abuse merely underlines the Fifth International's increasing political bankrupcy.  

Forward to the Sixth International!
Forward to Socialism in the 22nd century!

On behalf of the LSI (PCC-PPAW).


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

You _can't_ shoot rabbits though, that's your first problem. Never mind the bigger stuff.


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## rebel warrior (Nov 4, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> You _can't_ shoot rabbits though, that's your first problem. Never mind the bigger stuff.



Good point, I'll change my tagline.


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## Idris2002 (Nov 4, 2005)

rebel's 'Party of Proletarian American Workers' is a plagiarism (or nearly) of Tariq Ali's _Redemption_, where the US SWP appear as PISPAW, Proletarian International Socialist Party of American Workers.

The only thing I'm a member of is the AUT at home. We are now trying to speak up about the Terrorism bill's threat to academic freedom.


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

...there's always someone, somewhere With a big nose, who knows...


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## Idris2002 (Nov 4, 2005)

I like the way PISPAW, or the second and third initials anyway, is also a spin on the former trading name of the UK SWP.


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## rebel warrior (Nov 4, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> rebel's 'Party of Proletarian American Workers' is a plagiarism (or nearly) of Tariq Ali's _Redemption_, where the US SWP appear as PISPAW, Proletarian International Socialist Party of American Workers..



The LSI has enormous respect for Tariq Ali, and we would never want to be accused of plagiarising him.  

[Well spotted Sir...though I had already referenced the TA novel in the Politics thread section, so I also think accusations of 'plagiarism' are a little unfair here on these grounds - and 'PCC-PPAW' is a bit different from PISPAW.]


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

rebel warrior said:
			
		

> The LSI has enormous respect for Tariq Ali, and we would never want to be accused of plagiarising him.
> 
> [Well spotted Sir...though I had already referenced the TA novel in the Politics thread section, so I also think accusations of 'plagiarism' are a little unfair here on these grounds - and 'PCC-PPAW' is a bit different from PISPAW.]


 Change it then. Is that your blog btw Snowball?


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## rednblack (Nov 4, 2005)

that's got to be his blog


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## Pilgrim (Nov 4, 2005)

aurora green said:
			
		

> So what _does_  AF expect from you, as a signed up memeber?
> And how active do you expect to be?



AF expects a certain level of commitment, such as paying (very reasonable) subs, turning up to meetings, demo's and actions, and a general willingness to actually get out and do something rather than being merely a paper member.

Pretty reasonable expectations really.

In return for which, I don't get hassled to buy/sell papers, I'm not forced to have the 'right' opinions on any given issue and I'm unlikely to get frozen out for not following the party line.


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## october_lost (Nov 4, 2005)

Rob Ray said:
			
		

> Recently... fairly pleased with some of the recent Freedom articles we've been putting out, reports on all sorts of interesting stuff. Quite pleased with ipswich anarchs reaching its second anniversary without collapsing and generally getting more organised, v pleased with the Easf website (though more people could stand to contribute). Impressed with workplace leaflets Solfed have got, and the fact the website's finally been kind of sorted out.


Freedom tas been good of late, must renew my membership.

As for Solfed, I first came across Stevil about 5 years ago and hes worked pretty consistently and sometimes without acknowledgement, but thats what happens when you work with Trots. The organisation as picked up, locally its doubled in size in the space of a year or so, and nationally its gained more members, website and propaganda also seem to be picking up. At the moment I think its mainly a propaganda group, trying to co-ordinate what activity it can, (stuff your boss, ID cards) I think it as huge potential, especially if it gets a base in the workplace.
But its break down of locals and networks seems a good practice for libertarians.

Unfortunately we have had a bust up with some people around NAN, but we have to do our best regardless.



> It is not like joining a club, union or political party – rather, it is an opportunity to channel your efforts for change and, at the same time, benefit yourself from the experience.


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Pilgrim said:
			
		

> In return for which, I don't get hassled to buy/sell papers, I'm not forced to have the 'right' opinions on any given issue and I'm unlikely to get frozen out for not following the party line.


 so your looking at a concept of negative freedom - freedom from, rather than freeom to. Thus you expose the selfish and individualist nature of anarchism   

but really mate: what have you DONE and what do expect to DO? No ore vagueness. You know i am on the cusp...


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## joshjosh (Nov 4, 2005)

Its a pity that Chuck and RW can't think of anything to say about the SWP, but there we go...

I'm in Revo and Workers Power. We're small, and I'm not going to claim anything like 'we nearly stopped the war' but there's a lot of stuff we've done thats been very good.

On Wednesday's anti fascist demo it was mainly Revo members who were at the front against the police line. When the crowd pushed, we pushed. When the police tried to arrest anyone, we pulled them back and when a cop with a video camera came to film someone we blocked him and he pissed off.

In Manchester we got 40 people up to the G8 from the uni and almost all of them stayed until the Wednesday, even though at the time we only had one person at the Uni and he was a lecturer.

We've produced 'You Are Being Lied To' leaflets about asylum seekers which go through what is said about asylum seekers in the press and by politicians and give the facts. They're made to be used in anti fascist and anti racist leaflettings and Trade Unions and anti racist campaigns have ordered thousands of them.

Its getting a bit listy now, and there's plenty more I can say. The point is that we don't have any false illusions in oursselves and our size and ability but we get involved in things and do good work.


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

joshjosh said:
			
		

> Its a pity that Chuck and RW can't think of anything to say about the SWP, but there we go...
> 
> I'm in Revo and Workers Power. We're small, and I'm not going to claim anything like 'we nearly stopped the war' but there's a lot of stuff we've done thats been very good.
> 
> ...


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Chuck Wilson said:
			
		

> External Faction of Workers Power-
> 
> Monday: woke up got out of bed dragged a come across my head went down stairs but forgot to put trousers on.stopped the war in Iraq for a good five minutes but then decided that it might be more revolutionary if we let the Iraqi resistance win so its back on.
> 
> ...


Ha ha ha


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## Pilgrim (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> so your looking at a concept of negative freedom - freedom from, rather than freeom to. Thus you expose the selfish and individualist nature of anarchism
> 
> but really mate: what have you DONE and what do expect to DO? No ore vagueness. You know i am on the cusp...



1. I've done several Trident Ploughshares camps and demo's, a couple of Earth First! events, the G8 protests and more local and national (I.E Lodon) demo's than I care to remember.

2. I'm looking to start an Anarchist group in Plymouth.

3. I'm trying to get better communication going between anarcho's in the Devon and Cornwall area, possibly with a view to Devon/Cornwall meeting of some sort.

4. I'm looking to link the local branch of Greenpeace (of which I'm also a member) into anti-nuclear activity in the Devon and Cornwall area, this looks very positive at the moment.

4. I'm still able to work with Trident Ploughshares and Greenpeace because the AF has a non-sectarian position on membership of and working with other groups.


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## cockneyrebel (Nov 4, 2005)

Bloody hell that post you have C&Ped from Chuck is original. Oh no, wait a minute, it's the same as all the other obsessional posts he was putting up before I put him on ignore. But I'm sure there will yet another post about Workers Power soon. Someone on here even PMed me to tell me that he was doing it on his holiday   

I think a stalking order might be needed soon. Maybe he should link up with Arsene Wenger.


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## Rob Ray (Nov 4, 2005)

> We've produced 'You Are Being Lied To' leaflets about asylum seekers which go through what is said about asylum seekers in the press and by politicians and give the facts.



Those the blue ones? They're quite good (though there's a howler on immigrants' contribution to the economy being based on a year which was three times as productive as any other over the last decade due to exceptional circumstances - counterproductive, as immigrants make a positive contribution even disregarding that year entirely and critics can point to it as a misleading stat).


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## LLETSA (Nov 4, 2005)

cockneyrebel said:
			
		

> Bloody hell that post you have C&Ped from Chuck is original. Oh no, wait a minute, it's the same as all the other obsessional posts he was putting up before I put him on ignore. But I'm sure there will yet another post about Workers Power soon. Someone on here even PMed me to tell me that he was doing it on his holiday
> 
> I think a stalking order might be needed soon. Maybe he should link up with Arsene Wenger.





I think he might be able to take mild satisfaction in the fact that, although you've got him on ignore, you still can't bring yourself to ignore him.

Can you?


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## cockneyrebel (Nov 4, 2005)

> I think he might be able to take mild satisfaction in the fact that, although you've got him on ignore, you still can't bring yourself to ignore him.
> 
> Can you?



If that gives Chuck some satisfaction in life, fair play.


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

And CR walks right into it one more time...


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## Pilgrim (Nov 4, 2005)

cockneyrebel said:
			
		

> Bloody hell that post you have C&Ped from Chuck is original. Oh no, wait a minute, it's the same as all the other obsessional posts he was putting up before I put him on ignore. But I'm sure there will yet another post about Workers Power soon. Someone on here even PMed me to tell me that he was doing it on his holiday
> 
> I think a stalking order might be needed soon. Maybe he should link up with Arsene Wenger.



As amusing as I find Chuck's spoofs, maybe, for variety's sake (remember kiddies, a good comic always varies his/her material), Chuck should produce a similar opus on the SWP and its front groups. Or, to be fair, something similar on the Anarchists/Anarcho-Syndicalists.

Just a thought, like.


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## cockneyrebel (Nov 4, 2005)

> Those the blue ones? They're quite good (though there's a howler on immigrants' contribution to the economy being based on a year which was three times as productive as any other over the last decade due to exceptional circumstances - counterproductive, as immigrants make a positive contribution even disregarding that year entirely and critics can point to it as a misleading stat).



The leaflet should probably be updated again at some point. But it has had a very positive response from trade unions and anti-racist organisations.


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

what about racists? The point, surely?


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## cockneyrebel (Nov 4, 2005)

> what about racists? The point, surely?



Yep the BNP have ordered 10,000 copies.


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## joshjosh (Nov 4, 2005)

cockneyrebel said:
			
		

> Yep the BNP have ordered 10,000 copies.


I was doing a Revo stall in Manchester during Freshers' week and this guy comes up, looks at all the stuff on it and contemplates it all for a while. Then after a minute in silence he points to the You Are Being Lied To leaflets and says "Well that one thing I can agree with" then takes one and asks "Are you guys BNP then?". After a brief explanation of the difference between us and the BNP he walks off, leaflet in hand. I don't know whether he changed his mind but maybe the title of the leaflets is a bit ambiguous.


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## cockneyrebel (Nov 4, 2005)

> I was doing a Revo stall in Manchester during Freshers' week and this guy comes up, looks at all the stuff on it and contemplates it all for a while. Then after a minute in silence he points to the You Are Being Lied To leaflets and says "Well that one thing I can agree with" then takes one and asks "Are you guys BNP then?". After a brief explanation of the difference between us and the BNP he walks off, leaflet in hand. I don't know whether he changed his mind but maybe the title of the leaflets is a bit ambiguous.


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## Emma Herself (Nov 4, 2005)

Organised a feminist film festival and started organising a fundraising night for Women's Aid


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## rednblack (Nov 4, 2005)

Zoë Herself said:
			
		

> Organised a feminist film festival and started organising a fundraising night for Women's Aid



what org is that for?


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

rednblack said:
			
		

> what org is that for?


indeed...?

I've never heard of a feminist film festival    but maybe there aren't many. What are you showing like?


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## past caring (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> What are you showing like?



Fight Club.


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## joshjosh (Nov 4, 2005)

past caring said:
			
		

> Fight Club.


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## rednblack (Nov 4, 2005)

past caring said:
			
		

> Fight Club.



i think deuce bigalow male gigolo would be a good one, the main charcter comes to accept women for who they are, not what they look like


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## rebel warrior (Nov 4, 2005)

joshjosh said:
			
		

> I'm in Revo and Workers Power. We're small... The point is that we don't have any false illusions in oursselves and our size and ability.



If your small and you recognise that,  why do you proclaim yourselves the committee for the Fifth International?  It can _only_ lead to delusions of grandeur...


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

You've not changed your tagline yet snowball, don't make promises...


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## rebel warrior (Nov 4, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> You've not changed your tagline yet snowball, don't make promises...



There is no point changing it until I've got something better to replace it with.


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## past caring (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm sure I could come up with a suggestion or two.....


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## Badger Kitten (Nov 4, 2005)

Set up a group called Kings Cross United  for survivors of the Kings Cross train bomb, was 8 people at first, who found each other through the writing I started on U75 after the incident, orchestrated successful media strategy, garnered lots of press and TV, all targeted, all on our agenda,  now we are  67 members, 14 waiting to be processed, more joining every day. 
Refused to meet Tony Blair.


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

rebel warrior said:
			
		

> There is no point changing it until I've got something better to replace it with.


 Ah, taking the mears line i see...

edit: and as noted above, you'll not be short of suggestions from other posters....


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Badger Kitten said:
			
		

> Set up a group called Kings Cross United  for survivors of the Kings Cross train bomb, was 8 people at first, who found each other through the writing I started on U75 after the incident, orchestrated successful media strategy, garnered lots of press and TV, all targeted, all on our agenda,  now we are  67 members, 14 waiting to be processed, more joining every day.
> Refused to meet Tony Blair.


well done! Good on you


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## cockneyrebel (Nov 4, 2005)

> If your small and you recognise that, why do you proclaim yourselves the committee for the Fifth International? It can only lead to delusions of grandeur...




Why does the SP call itself the "Committee for a Workers International"?

Why does the SWP have the catchy name of "International Socialist Tendency". When you haven't got any groups in 90%+ of countries around the world and even where you do they are mostly tiny grouplets or, at most, a few hundred members.



> Fight Club.



That did make me laugh.


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

rednblack said:
			
		

> i think deuce bigalow male gigolo would be a good one, the main charcter comes to accept women for who they are, not what they look like


no your thinking of that one with jack black and gwyneth paltrow - Shallow Hal.

the best film for the festival i reckon, is 'What Women Want' with Mel Gibson


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## joshjosh (Nov 4, 2005)

rebel warrior said:
			
		

> If your small and you recognise that,  why do you proclaim yourselves the committee for the Fifth International?  It can _only_ lead to delusions of grandeur...


We say we're for a Fifth International because its a way of intervening into the ESF/WSF which calls for better organisation and calls to action (so its not just a talking shop) and to push revolutionary politics (i.e. the international anti capitalist/social justice/anti globalisation movement and the struggles which its participants are involved in have a heritage and their roots in capitalism)

Why're you proud to be in the SWP?

The leader of your RESPECT group not turning up to vote on the anti terror legislation?

Your members voting for the shit pensions deal on the PCS?

Weyman Bennet saying 'lets turn the BNP into the HMP' on the anti fascist demo in Leeds on Wednesday?

Or cos you're the biggest?


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## changingman (Nov 4, 2005)

Badger Kitten said:
			
		

> Refused to meet Tony Blair.


Especially well done. Bliar.


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## Badger Kitten (Nov 4, 2005)

Zoë Herself said:
			
		

> Organised a feminist film festival and started organising a fundraising night for Women's Aid




oooh, when and where? And what's on?


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Badger Kitten said:
			
		

> oooh, when and where? And what's on?


Fight Club, Shallow Hal, What Women Want, and Deuce Bigalow Male Jigalow.


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## Chuck Wilson (Nov 4, 2005)

joshjosh said:
			
		

> Its a pity that Chuck and RW can't think of anything to say about the SWP, but there we go...QUOTE]
> 
> josh, I think you will find that this is not the case............
> 
> ...


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

*chucky*


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## Chuck Wilson (Nov 4, 2005)

Pilgrim said:
			
		

> As amusing as I find Chuck's spoofs, maybe, for variety's sake (remember kiddies, a good comic always varies his/her material), Chuck should produce a similar opus on the SWP and its front groups. Or, to be fair, something similar on the Anarchists/Anarcho-Syndicalists.
> 
> Just a thought, like.



I am , I am. In fact I just Pm'd someone who asked the same.It's a fine line though in taking the piss but not wanting to upset everyone ( I know what you are thinking someone recently pm'd me to say that cockers has always had that slightly camp melodramatic streak in him).


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## Thora_v1 (Nov 4, 2005)

Mine and rnb's ALF cell's doing really well.  Yesterday we liberated some chickens, and tomorrow we're getting matching paw/fist tattoos


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## darren redparty (Nov 4, 2005)

The red star commandos 'liberated' some chickens at weatherspoons yesterday- we also 'liberated' some chips and several pints of guiness


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## past caring (Nov 4, 2005)

Chuck - it's a pity cliffite/levien isn't posting as much as he once did - he'd have made a great Nigel Molesworth. As it stands, many wouldn't even know who he is.....


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## Emma Herself (Nov 4, 2005)

Ah excellent, I made my life sound way more worthy and interesting than it really is. And you all fell for it, lol   

Nah it's just a few films in our student union, for the Women's Society. And the films aren't one's I'd have picked, but hey that's democracy for you.


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## Chuck Wilson (Nov 4, 2005)

past caring said:
			
		

> Chuck - it's a pity cliffite/levien isn't posting as much as he once did - he'd have made a great Nigel Molesworth. As it stands, many wouldn't even know who he is.....



Yes and what happened to resistance mp3?


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Zoë Herself said:
			
		

> Ah excellent, I made my life sound way more worthy and interesting than it really is. And you all fell for it, lol
> 
> Nah it's just a few films in our student union, for the Women's Society. And the films aren't one's I'd have picked, but hey that's democracy for you.


oh COME ON! the suspense is killing me - what are the films?!

you've got to tell us now.


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

I  deicded a while ago to form a group known as the International Communist Women- Marxist-Feminist Stilettoites.  Just me, my mum and my cat at the moment.  PM me if you are interested in discussing any future involvement with this exciting and important development in the formation of _the_ Marxist-Feminist platform (or spiked heel) for working women throughout the world.


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

...Big up.....yeah.


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## LLETSA (Nov 4, 2005)

cockneyrebel said:
			
		

> Why does the SP call itself the "Committee for a Workers International"?
> 
> Why does the SWP have the catchy name of "International Socialist Tendency". When you haven't got any groups in 90%+ of countries around the world and even where you do they are mostly tiny grouplets or, at most, a few hundred members.





Will the penny ever drop....


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## rednblack (Nov 4, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> ...Big up.....yeah.



aiiight


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

You mugging me off or summat?  Fuckin backward element.


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Missing f.

Is ryazan doing a weird one again?


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

No, I have been attacked, quite inappropriately and unfairly by other "feminists" today, for a second time on these boards.  aiiiight.


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## rednblack (Nov 4, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Missing f.
> 
> Is ryazan doing a weird one again?



he does have funny five turns doesnt he?


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Listen, bollock chops.  This is serious.


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

what is? 

anecdote: 'Russia in the C20th' lecturer was trying to think of the name of feminist leader during the early days of the USSR; Aleksandra Kollontai? says I. Thats the one, he says with nod of respect. Thanks Ryan.


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Madame Kollontai had balls, big ones.


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Have a drink (of water). I'm in the TU bureaucracy and will later work very hard for stalin.


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Badmouth her all you want.  Clip Eros if you want buttmonkey.  The Drink of Water Theory was a distortion of her views on Free Love.  And she was fit.

Zhenotdel Zhenotdel Zhenotdel Rabotnitsa!


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Was she fit ordering the WO across the ice to attack Kronstadt - was she fit then?


----------



## rednblack (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> what is?
> 
> anecdote: 'Russia in the C20th' lecturer was trying to think of the name of feminist leader during the early days of the USSR; Aleksandra Kollontai? says I. Thats the one, he says with nod of respect. Thanks Ryan.



 seriously?!


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Cunty balls, cunty balls.  Dybenko...Hmmmm.    

She was effectively pushed away from developments in the USSR, quasi-exile.  Farty dinner parties in foreign lands.  

Literacy for women.........No big frocks and small deeds.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

rednblack said:
			
		

> seriously?!


no doubt ninja, no doubt.

It was a total fluke - only Russian woman i know, and the one he was thinking of. All thanks to Ryan. And wikipedia.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

That was for Intostella.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> no doubt ninja, no doubt.
> 
> It was a total fluke - only Russian woman i know, and the one he was thinking of. All thanks to Ryan. And wikipedia.


There weren't any others though.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Well, as Trotsky said to Stalin-  "that is _their_ affair"...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Cunty balls, cunty balls.  Dybenko...Hmmmm.
> 
> She was effectively pushed away from developments in the USSR, quasi-exile.  Farty dinner parties in foreign lands.
> 
> Literacy for women.........No big frocks and small deeds.


 Is that a yes or no on the Kronstadt stuff then?


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Cunty balls, cunty balls.  Dybenko...Hmmmm.
> 
> She was effectively pushed away from developments in the USSR, quasi-exile.


by the anti-faction resolution pushed through by lenin at the 10th pary congress in 1921.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> by the anti-faction resolution pushed through by lenin at the 10th pary congress in 1921.


 No, not at all, hence her troops crossing the ice - that's  what esnsured her obedience. She buckled down like a good 'un. I thought you disliked aristos anyway ryazan?


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> There weren't any others though.


no you don't understand: she is the only russian woman i know by name full fucking stop. At all. The only other ones i can even think of are the birds out of Tatu, and i don't know their names.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

no wait i know Ryans gf's name. I forgot it though.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> by the anti-faction resolution pushed through by lenin at the 10th pary congress in 1921.



Kolllontai and Shlyapnikov's "Anarchist and Syndicalist deviation".


----------



## rednblack (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> no you don't understand: she is the only russian woman i know by name full fucking stop. At all. The only other ones i can even think of are the birds out of Tatu, and i don't know their names.



what about anna kounakova?


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> No, not at all, hence her troops crossing the ice - that's  what esnsured her obedience. She buckled down like a good 'un. I thought you disliked aristos anyway ryazan?



Well, on her mothers side, there were humbler origins.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

rednblack said:
			
		

> what about anna kounakova?



Raissa Nedashkovskaya.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> No, not at all, hence her troops crossing the ice - that's  what esnsured her obedience.


but kronstadt happened before the 10th congress surely, cos the anti-faction resolution was sort of in reaction to it...?




			
				Butchersapron said:
			
		

> She buckled down like a good 'un. I thought you disliked aristos anyway ryazan


  leader of the Workers Opposition an aristo? Fair play.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Well, on her mothers side, there were humbler origins.


But an aristocratic *present*. I'm glad to see you can be forgiving. Some might call it inconsistency though.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Raissa Nedashkovskaya.


who?


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

rednblack said:
			
		

> what about anna kounakova?


o yeh.

Lucky i didn't say that in the lecture eh? Might have got a laugh though


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> but kronstadt happened before the 10th congress surely, cos the anti-faction resolution was sort of in reaction to it...?
> 
> leader of the Workers Opposition an aristo? Fair play.



No it didn't, your dates are wrong, They took place at the same time and most of the delagates to the conference took part in the assault in Kronsdadt. It was 'expected'.

The Workers Opposoition was the TU bureaucrats organsisation (look past the name), the actual workers had different groups, grouops that were in conflict with the bolsheviks.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> who?



She is still alive today, a little known actress during Soviet times.  Starred as a Jewish wife in the film The Kommisar back in the 60's, set during the civil war.  based on a tale by Vasily Grossman.


----------



## sovietpop (Nov 4, 2005)

Valentina Tereshkova


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> She is still alive today, a little known actress during Soviet times.  Starred as a Jewish wife in the film The Kommisar back in the 60's, set during the civil war.  based on a tale by Vasily Grossman.


ok. How ON EARTH do you expect me to have known her?


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

*sovietpop*

Bet Yury didn't like that eh?


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> ok. How ON EARTH do you expect me to have known her?



I didn't.  It was partly a joke.  My bird is a bit yid.


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## rednblack (Nov 4, 2005)

sovietpop said:
			
		

> Valentina Tereshkova



she was the cosmonaut that ern fancied right?


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> No it didn't, your dates are wrong, They took place at the same time and most of the delagates to the conference took part in the assault in Kronsdadt. It was 'expected'.


Aha. So; kronstadt rebellion--->conference--->anti-faction resolution--> kollontai says OK---> attack on kronstadt. 

Is that the right chronology?




> The Workers Opposoition was the TU bureaucrats organsisation (look past the name), the actual workers had different groups, groups that were in conflict with the bolsheviks


 all of them were? 
What were these groups called? Were the the SRs left out in the cold by Lenin banning all other parties? 

Can i have link for all this stuff, i've done one professor (did you see that BTW, he's retracted his comment) i can probably do another.


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Da.  The cosmo bit.


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## sovietpop (Nov 4, 2005)

rednblack said:
			
		

> she was the cosmonaut that ern fancied right?



who wouldn't fancy Valentina Tereshkova  , what a beautiful name.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I didn't.  It was partly a joke.  My bird is a bit yid.


How is the fact that your girlfriend is a 4 by 2 relevant?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> Aha. So; kronstadt rebellion--->conference--->anti-faction resolution--> kollontai says OK---> attack on kronstadt.
> 
> Is that the right chronology?
> 
> ...



Yes, that's pretty much correct - i'd add a shit load of revolts all over the place at the start though.


The SRs were gone by then. 

A link for what? This is the historical record. It's accepted that this is how things happened. Any book backs this up.


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Jewish....Ai Ai Ai Ai Ai AI


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## Ryazan (Nov 4, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> Aha. So; kronstadt rebellion--->conference--->anti-faction resolution--> *kollontai says OK*---> attack on kronstadt.
> 
> Is that the right chronology?



It was as easy as that?

*twirls moustache*


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

On timeline, not a causal line.


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Yes, that's pretty much correct - i'd add a shit load of revolts all over the place at the start though.
> 
> 
> The SRs were gone by then.
> ...


ok. Any you like in particular? Any links with a good analysis of this period - ''How that bastard lenin and his gang of nutters shafted the working class on russia 1917 - 1926, by  Dr. Anna Key'' - that sort of thing?


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> It was as easy as that?
> 
> *twirls moustache*


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

You should know all these already though - therse make the point form a non stalkinist perspective, they should be on your course reading:


Russia 
The Guillotine at Work - Gregory Maximoff
The Bolshevik Myth - Alexander Berkman
The Unknown Revolution -Voline
1917- Voline (about 1/3 of the above work concentrating just on 1917)
The Russian Anarchists  - Paul Avrich (worth getting hold of his Russian Rebels for an account of earlier events)
The Anarchists in the Russian Revolution  - Paul Avrich (Collection of contemporary anarchist leaflets and articles)
History of the Maknovist Movement - P. Arshinov
The Struggle Against the State and other Essays - Nestor Makhno
The Russian Enigma - Ante Ciliga
The Bolsheviks and Workers Control - Maurice Brinton
Kronstadt 1917-21: The Fate of a Soviet Democracy - Israel Getzler
Kronstadt  1921 - Paul Avrich
Kronstadt  and Petrograd in 1917 - F.F Raskolinikov (Bolshevik account - doesn?t cover the uprising though)
Prelude to Revolution: The Petrograd Bolsheviks and the July 1917 Uprising - Alexander Rabinbowitch (dispels most of the Bolsheviks lies about the ?July days? and gives  a very favourable impression of anarchist activity)
The Civil War in Russia - David Footman
The Origin of the Communist Autocracy: Political opposition in the Soviet State in the First Phase 1917-22 - Leonard Schapiro
The Conscience of the Revolution : Communist Opposition in Soviet Russia - R.V Daniels
A Documentary History of Communism Volume 1: Communism in Russia - ed. R.V Daniels
My Disillusionment in Russia and My Further Disillusionment in Russia  - Emma Goldman
The Soviets: The Russian Workers, Peasants, and Soldiers Councils 1905-1921 - Oskar Anweiler 
Class Struggles in the USSR Volume 1, 1917-23 and Volume 2, 1923-30 - Charles Bethlehem (Maoist influenced account, but provides masses of evidence for the anarchists criticisms of the USSR)
Russia Twenty Years after - Victor Serge (written when he was starting the break from Trotskyism)
Year One of the Bolshevik Revolution - Victor Serge (written when he?d just broke from anarchism and was a full on lying Bolshevik , so beware - but he? such a good writer it?s worth reading)
Revolution in Danger - Victor Serge (Ditto)
From Lenin to Stalin - Victor Serge 
Memoirs of a Revolutionary - Victor Serge (Beware! Serge finds himself being correct in his estimation of nearly every situation he finds himself in, so take with a pinch of salt!)
Stalin - Boris Souvarine
History of the Russian Revolution, 3 Volumes - Trotsky (worth reading to see what a bare-faced liar he is)
The Bolshevik Revolution , 3 Volumes - E.H Carr (Well worth reading, and using as a reference to check facts from).
The Bolsheviks in Russian Society: The Revolution and the Civil Wars - Ed. By Vladimir Brovkin (Good collection of articles that highlight opposition to the Bolsheviks)
Voices of Revolution, 1917 - Mark D. Steinberg (collection of original material from 1917, not party publications but letters, self-taught poetry and similar stuff from ?the people?)
Red Petrograd: Revolution in the Factories  - S.A. Smith 
Bread and Justice: State and Society in Petrograd, 1917-1922 - M. McAuley
Soviet Communists in Power. A Study of Moscow During the Civil War, 1918-1921 - R. Sakwa
Workers against Lenin: Labour Protest and the Bolshevik Dictatorship - J.Aves
Before Stalinism; The Rise and Fall of Soviet Democracy - Samuel Farber 
Workers Control and Socialist Democracy - C. Sirianni
The Workers' Revolution in Russia, 1917 - ed. D. Kaiser


----------



## catch (Nov 4, 2005)

You should know this as well mate 

(down at the minute, but being worked on)

www.libcom.org/library/russian-revolution


----------



## mk12 (Nov 4, 2005)

> History of the Russian Revolution, 3 Volumes - Trotsky (worth reading to see what a bare-faced liar he is)


----------



## Sorry. (Nov 4, 2005)

and a bundle of articles here, if you wish to go no further than t'internet.


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## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2005)

Right, i'm off for a train - any questions, be back in a couple of hours - Ryazan, be good.


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 4, 2005)

catch said:
			
		

> You should know this as well mate


why?


----------



## catch (Nov 4, 2005)

I knew you lurked on the forums and assumed you'd checked out the library in all it's wonderful glory as well. Especially since Jack posted a link to it earlier in the thread 

It's working now:

here's what we have. There's some pre-1917, and post-1921 on there in different sections:

    * My Disillusionment in Russia - Emma Goldman
    * Anarchists in the Russian Revolution - Paul Avrich
    * Anarchists, Bolsheviks and Serge - Daniel Guerin
    * Beyond Kronstadt - the Bolsheviks in Power - "MK"
    * Bolshevik Opposition to Lenin - Paul Avrich
    * Council Communism & The Critique of Bolshevism
    * Dictatorship and Democracy in the Russian Revolution - Simon Pirani
    * Factory Committees in the Russian Revolution - Rod Jones
    * Institution Building in Soviet Russia: The Case of "State Kontrol" - Thomas Remington
    * Kronstadt 1921: An Analysis of Bolshevik Propaganda
    * Kronstadt Izvestiia
    * More than One Piece is Missing in the Puzzle - Moshe Lewin
    * Peasants into Russians: The Utopian Essence of War Communism - Bertrand M Patenaude
    * Politics, Not Economics Was the Key - Vladimir Brovkin
    * Reply to Moshe and Brovkin - William G Rosenberg
    * Russian Anarchists and the Civil War - Paul Avrich
    * Russian Labour and Bolshevik Power after October - William Rosenberg
    * Soviets and Factory Committees in the Russian Revolution - Peter Rachleff
    * The Bolsheviks and Workers' Control - Maurice Brinton
    * The Commune State in Moscow in 1918 - Richard Sakwa
    * The Evolution of Local Soviets in Petrograd - Alexander Rabinowich
    * The July Uprising of the Left Socialist Revolutionaries in Moscow 1918 - Lutz Hafner
    * The Kronstadt Uprising of 1921 - Ida Mett
    * The Menshevik's Political Comeback Spring 1918 Vladimir Brovkin
    * The Third Revolution? - Peasant resistance to the Bolshevik government
    * Trotsky Protests Too Much - Emma Goldman
    * Urbanisation and Deurbanisation in the Russian Revolution and Civil War - Diane Koenker
    * Worker Activism and Social Polarisation in Petrograd and Moscow March to October 1917 - Rosenberg/Koenker
    * Worker Unrest and the Bolsheviks' Response in 1919 - Vladimir Brovkin


----------



## blamblam (Nov 4, 2005)

ayyyy it's back. Fucking hell we'll have to talk to the hosts about this...


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## audiotech (Nov 4, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Madame Kollontai had balls, big ones.



I thought it was bees?

<buzzes off>


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 5, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

>



That doesn't answer my question.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 5, 2005)

MC5 said:
			
		

> I thought it was bees?
> 
> <buzzes off>



Depends on the publication.


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 5, 2005)

Anna Politkovskaya

Anna Akhmatova


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 5, 2005)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> Anna Politkovskaya
> 
> Anna Akhmatova



Gorenko?


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## Ryazan (Nov 5, 2005)

Oh well tax.....


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> It was as easy as that?
> 
> *twirls moustache*


that question?


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 5, 2005)

Yes.  I would like him to go into more detail about it for me.  So I can understand this crucial event in Kollontai's career.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Oh well tax.....


What?! I don't know i just said i only knew 3 women in the history of russia ffs. and 2 were celebities from the lst couple of years. I don't fucking know do i?


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 5, 2005)

C'mon Tax, stop stalling.

Apart from "trade union beuracracy" that gets bandies around, and that Kollontai was a Bolshevik to the very end, her views can't just be pigeon-holed into just one event that colours her as purely a counter-revolutiionary old bag, now can it?


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 5, 2005)

The question is about Kollontai, nobody else.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 5, 2005)

ryan, your mixing me up with butchersapron.


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 6, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> What?! I don't know i just said i only knew 3 women in the history of russia ffs. and 2 were celebities from the lst couple of years. I don't fucking know do i?






Galina Brezhnev

Raisa Gorbachev


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 6, 2005)

Nadezhda Krupskaya

Nadezhda Mandehlstam


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 6, 2005)

thank you LLETSA i am memorising these names now.

You don't want to big up your organisation by any chance do you?


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 6, 2005)

Who was nadezhda mandelstham?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Who was nadezhda mandelstham?


wife of poet osip mandelshtam. 





> In 1922 Mandelshtam married Nadezhda Yakovlevna Khazin, who accompanied him throughout his years of exile and imprisonment. Several decades later his widow, Nadezhda Mandelshtam, published her memoirs Hope Against Hope (1970) and Hope Abandoned (1974), which depicted their life under the Stalin era. Ironically, Nadezhda means Hope in Russian


have you ever thought of using google to answer questions?


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 6, 2005)

I was asking taxamo?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I was asking taxamo?


i'm pleased to have been of assistance.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 6, 2005)

But you haven't.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> But you haven't.


 what the fuck were you asking a minute ago? who was natasha mandelstam?

and didn't i provide the fucking answer? y/n


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 6, 2005)

I asking taxamo who was nadezhda mandelshtam.  And you posted up a cut and paste.  You weren't any help, because the information did not come from you, it came from google.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I asking taxamo who was nadezhda mandelshtam.  And you posted up a cut and paste.  You weren't any help, because the information did not come from you, it came from google.




what sort of fucking wankery is that? is there anything you know that didn't come from someone else, from them telling you, from you reading it somewhere, and so on? what sort of paltry answer is that?


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 6, 2005)

Yes.  _You_ weren't any help.  Whoever wrote that excerpt was the real help.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Yes.  _You_ weren't any help.  Whoever wrote that excerpt was the real help.


you would not have had your knowledge satisfied so swiftly had i not bought it to your attention.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 6, 2005)

why were you asking me ryan? I think you are mxing me up with butchers, i have not put across any opinons about russia on this thread.

And when i said i was memorising the names - i was joking.


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 7, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> thank you LLETSA i am memorising these names now.
> 
> You don't want to big up your organisation by any chance do you?





Olga Korbut.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 7, 2005)

Valodya Stinchenko


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 7, 2005)

Taxamo Welf said:
			
		

> Valodya Stinchenko






Volodya ain't a woman's name (note sp.)


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 7, 2005)

oh drat rumbled again


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 7, 2005)

Yelena Bonner.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 7, 2005)

Bone her?


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 7, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Bone her?





Not into OAPs.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 7, 2005)

If you had a time machine?


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 7, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> If you had a time machine?





Nyet.  If only out of consideration to Andrei and his dodgy ticker.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 7, 2005)

Maladets.


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 7, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Maladets.





Nyeh zah shto.


----------



## Ryazan (Nov 7, 2005)

Spasibo, moy muzhik.


----------

