# Enhanced CRB check: what shows up?



## miss direct (Apr 1, 2008)

I'm applying for some jobs and they say I have to undergo an enhanced CRB as they involve working with children.

When I was 14 I got a caution for shoplifting. At the time, the policeman said it would be wiped from my record when I was 17. 

I don't especially want to tell prospective employers about that, as it was more than a decade ago and is pretty irrelavent to me now. But at the same time, I don't want to tick a box saying I have no criminal record only for it to show up and make me look like a liar.

Does anyone know if it will show up? I really want this job..


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## baldrick (Apr 1, 2008)

I would work on the basis that it would show up.  i seriously doubt they're going to be bothered about a caution from your teenage years, but employers like honesty.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Apr 1, 2008)

depends on the job for child care these days it's near enough anything... for most other things it's not so bad and will usually only be the relevant things which might concern your job/or if there are security issues.

As for the caution these usually have a certain time limit before being wiped and again if it was as a youth and you've now turned 18 then your record is theroetically spent (exceptions include tings like murder etc shoplifting sand you should be fine). so nothing would / should up.


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## dylanredefined (Apr 1, 2008)

Cautions dont show up well for driving offences they dont.


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## Stobart Stopper (Apr 1, 2008)

I have a copy of mine here and this is what they do, if needed:
Records of police cautions, reprimands, and final warnings.


Information held under section 142 of education act 2002
Protection of children act list information
Protection of vulnerable adults list
Other relevent information disclosed at the chief police officers discretion
(this means anything at all that the cops can think might be casue for concern realting to the job you are doing) ie if you have minor drug offences and are thinking of working in a school, forget it. 

Only one thing on mine was NOT requested by my employer, the vulnerable adults one as I don't work with them at all.


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## Stobart Stopper (Apr 1, 2008)

dylanredefined said:


> Cautions dont show up well for driving offences they dont.


They might if he's going to drive a school bus, see the last thing on my list.


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## jjuice (Apr 1, 2008)

I had a caution for possession of cannabis in 2002, it showed up in an enhanced CRB check in 2007

Its best to be honest I think


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## miss direct (Apr 1, 2008)

I don't understand why I was told that the caution would be wiped when I was 17 if it wasn't going to be?


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## Stobart Stopper (Apr 1, 2008)

I will have to check with Pig but I am sure that although a caution is "wiped" off it's always recordable at some point in the future. All this came about becasue of the Soham murders I think. If someone who works with kids has to have an enhanced check and they were caught flashing at some point and only received a caution, that sort of thing will always show up when they check.

Where's DB when you need him?


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## baldrick (Apr 1, 2008)

miss direct said:


> I don't understand why I was told that the caution would be wiped when I was 17 if it wasn't going to be?


You've got the rehabilitation of offenders act to thank for that.  I don't see the problem tbh.

It's only disclosable on a CRB, which only applies to certain jobs.

If you don't want your past to be checked out, then don't work with kids or vulnerable adults.


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## miss direct (Apr 1, 2008)

You don't see the problem because I presume it's not something that would affect you...

I was punished for shoplifting at the time it happened and learned my lesson, and I find it pretty shit that it could affect my prospects more than a decade down the line..


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## baldrick (Apr 1, 2008)

it's unlikely to affect much of anything.  your potential employers are just being thorough.

should cautions for sexual assault be 'wiped' after 5 years and not show up on an enhanced CRB for someone who wants to work with kids?


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## Scarlette (Apr 1, 2008)

baldrick said:


> it's unlikely to affect much of anything.  your potential employers are just being thorough.
> 
> should cautions for sexual assault be 'wiped' after 5 years and not show up on an enhanced CRB for someone who wants to work with kids?



Do you get cautioned for sexual assault? I may be being dumb, but I can't imagine someone being told not to do it again and get on their way for a sexual assault?


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## baldrick (Apr 1, 2008)

you'd be surprised


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## Scarlette (Apr 1, 2008)

miss direct said:


> You don't see the problem because I presume it's not something that would affect you...
> 
> I was punished for shoplifting at the time it happened and learned my lesson, and I find it pretty shit that it could affect my prospects more than a decade down the line..



I think enhanced CRBs show everything. So they'll find out, I think, but I doub very much that they'd care.

A guy from my PGCE course claimed to have a conviction/caution (it's a hazy memory) for fighting in his late teens and it didn't affect him. Is it something with children that you're wanting to do (apologies if you already said)? If so, they may well appreciate someone who has mistakes in their past and therefore may be deemed more able to relate to kids etc.


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## Scarlette (Apr 1, 2008)

baldrick said:


> you'd be surprised



 I would be. Very very surprised, indeed!

*splutters*


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## innit (Apr 1, 2008)

miss direct said:


> You don't see the problem because I presume it's not something that would affect you...
> 
> I was punished for shoplifting at the time it happened and learned my lesson, and I find it pretty shit that it could affect my prospects more than a decade down the line..



I really don't think it will affect your prospects (if it makes you feel better I work as a manager in social care and have seen staff with enhanced disclosures as long as my arm).

I understand why you're upset that it might show up - but there's a reason why everything shows - it's because of people like Ian Huntley, who haven't had a previous conviction but do have a group of other cautions / accusations which together form a pattern.

Obviously you and your one-off long ago caution won't fall into that category.

Employers should be used to things coming up in CRBs and they should deal with it sensitively.  In your case given your age at the time I'd be amazed if they even bring it up with you.  If it was something more recent (but not relevant to the safety of children) they would normally just talk it through and find out the reasons.


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## kropotkin (Apr 1, 2008)

I have a friend who does my course, who got busted in Queens Road Peckham in London after he bought some weed from a shop.
They came up to us and asked him if he had just left the shop- he was very upfront about it, gave them the weed and apologised- hoping for the best as he is one year away form qualifying as a doctor. The guy took his name and address, but didn't do anything official. He gave him no paper or receipt of the incident, and said that this was just a local thing that would trigger something official only if he got picked up again.

We got told recently that our first jobs will require a full enhanced CRB check, and he is really worried that this 'unofficial' reprimand will show up and fuck him. I told him that I really doubt it will as there was no official paperwork around it.

1/ What do you guys think? 
2/ Does anyone have any idea what the information was taken for?


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## LilMissHissyFit (Apr 1, 2008)

If he didnt get any paperwork or anything it wont show on a CRB.

If you recieve a caution from the police you know about it, you have to attend at a police station, have the caution read to you and sign a declaration saying that basically you admit you did it and have been reprimanded rather than prosecuted.


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## Stobart Stopper (Apr 1, 2008)

Yes I think that's right, you can only get a caution or whatever if you have actually signed for it. I will check all of this with Pig later as he knows about CRB records.


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## DJ Squelch (Apr 1, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about it, if you're a good candidate for the job a shoplifting caution when you were 14 won't matter a bit to them. They'll only run a CRB check on you if they're thinking of giving you the job as it costs them each time. I had a huge list of past convictions when I applied to work at a school but they were fine about it as it didn't involve any noncyness.


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## extra dry (Apr 1, 2008)

I need some advice on how to apply for a CRB check, need it to renew a work visa for my job...got the link or web address please.


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## LilMissHissyFit (Apr 1, 2008)

You cant apply for a CRB check yourself. It has to be done via your employer (or whoever you are volunteering for if applicable) although you fill in the form you hand it to the employer who sends it in
You then get a copy and the organisation asking for it will get a copy.
Full info here
http://www.crb.gov.uk/


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## brixtonvilla (Apr 1, 2008)

I got caught with some draw when I was about 20 and got a caution, I mentioned it on my CRB forms at teacher training college and in my current job, nothing's ever come of it. I knew it probably wouldn't show up, but I told my employers anyway - the CRB form you give in is confidential. I can't imagine any employer worth their salt will give two shits what you got up to when you were 14, to be honest.


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## ricbake (Apr 1, 2008)

*Don't quote me please . . .*

I had an enhanced disclosure CRB check in 2003 it came back clean as a whistle - my record is as follows
1979 - 
1980 - 
1981 - 
1992 - 
1994 - 

These are still on the record because I got a National Identification Service data protection information request at the same time. But all are "spent" in terms of my criminal record - but they don't actually rub them out!


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## Stobart Stopper (Apr 1, 2008)

kropotkin said:


> I have a friend who does my course, who got busted in Queens Road Peckham in London after he bought some weed from a shop.
> They came up to us and asked him if he had just left the shop- he was very upfront about it, gave them the weed and apologised- hoping for the best as he is one year away form qualifying as a doctor. The guy took his name and address, but didn't do anything official. He gave him no paper or receipt of the incident, and said that this was just a local thing that would trigger something official only if he got picked up again.
> 
> We got told recently that our first jobs will require a full enhanced CRB check, and he is really worried that this 'unofficial' reprimand will show up and fuck him. I told him that I really doubt it will as there was no official paperwork around it.
> ...



Pig said they get the detection for cannabis possession, they have filled in a form with the person's name and address and they get a sanction detection(ie cleared up a drug crime) but nothing will appear on his name as a record, or caution.


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## butterfly child (Apr 1, 2008)

ricbake said:


> I had an enhanced disclosure CRB check in 2003 it came back clean as a whistle - my record is as follows
> 
> 
> These are still on the record because I got a National Identification Service data protection information request at the same time. But all are "spent" in terms of my criminal record - but they don't actually rub them out!



Enhanced CRB checks are supposed to show all convictions, even spent ones...


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## LilMissHissyFit (Apr 1, 2008)

butterfly child said:


> Enhanced CRB checks are supposed to show all convictions, even spent ones...



If he had one on 2003 it might not have shown everything.
It will if it was done again now though. A colleague in work has to have an interview every time he does his, every 3 years....explaining to the boss what happened etc. Even though hes been convicted of nothing new and it was mainly drunken fighting as a teenager


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## lontok2005 (Apr 1, 2008)

I was cautioned last year for possession of weed (walked smack-bang into the sniffer dog at the station). It's not called an official caution any more. It's called a 'simple caution'. It does go on your record and will be disclosed on a CRB check. You can read about cautions on the HO website:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/powers/cautioning/

A CRB check simply informs the employer of any previous convictions/cautions. It is then at the discretion of the employer what attitude they take towards any such disclosure. My understanding, however, is that employers sometimes do not understand this fundamental point and take a disclosure of a conviction or a caution as official advice _not_ to employ someone. 

Having said that, I seriously doubt any decent employer would take a shoplifting caution at age 14 in the slightest bit seriously (and I doubt after such a long time it would even show up), but if you're worried about it, I would imagine that upfront honesty on the matter would stand you in better stead than having to explain attempted evasion of the truth later on.

Incidentally, while we're on the subject, a good equal opportunities policy should contain a clause pertaining to recruitment that states that no discrimination will be shown against applicants with spent convictions. At least, that's the one we have at work.


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## LilMissHissyFit (Apr 1, 2008)

lontok2005 said:


> Incidentally, while we're on the subject, a good equal opportunities policy should contain a clause pertaining to recruitment that states that no discrimination will be shown against applicants with spent convictions. At least, that's the one we have at work.



It depends what the conviction is for though doesnt it? an anhanced CRB check should rightly show anything which may be cause for concern when working with vulnerable people/groups.

A caution for indecent assault in your teens would probably make many 'reasonable' employers refuse someone a job working directly with children even if you were 30.


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## Blagsta (Apr 2, 2008)

kropotkin said:


> I have a friend who does my course, who got busted in Queens Road Peckham in London after he bought some weed from a shop.
> They came up to us and asked him if he had just left the shop- he was very upfront about it, gave them the weed and apologised- hoping for the best as he is one year away form qualifying as a doctor. The guy took his name and address, but didn't do anything official. He gave him no paper or receipt of the incident, and said that this was just a local thing that would trigger something official only if he got picked up again.
> 
> We got told recently that our first jobs will require a full enhanced CRB check, and he is really worried that this 'unofficial' reprimand will show up and fuck him. I told him that I really doubt it will as there was no official paperwork around it.
> ...



1/ No it won't show up
2/ to shit him up


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## kropotkin (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks for your replies everyone- i have forwarded them to him.


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## lontok2005 (Apr 2, 2008)

LilMissHissyFit said:


> It depends what the conviction is for though doesnt it? an anhanced CRB check should rightly show anything which may be cause for concern when working with vulnerable people/groups.
> 
> A caution for indecent assault in your teens would probably make many 'reasonable' employers refuse someone a job working directly with children even if you were 30.




Hi, you're right. Actually, I rechecked our equal opps policy and in fact there is a clause pertaining to 'unrelated criminal convictions.'


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## Scarlette (Apr 2, 2008)

The OP shouldn't worry too much about the CRB check. I just went to a course where I need to take my CRB number with me to ge the accreditation. I asked the school manager for it and he said they have none recorded for me.

Moderately alarming considering I gave a form in and have been working there almost two years.


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## Jografer (Apr 2, 2008)

I see a fair few CRB returns at work that have spent convictions on them, can't think of any instance where it's made any difference to the job 'offer'.

I'd rather have the system in place though, as insurance against the Huntley's of this world.

..... also if any employer is going to worry about a shoplifting offence when you were a kid, then you probably are better off not working for them...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Apr 2, 2008)

Jografer said:


> I'd rather have the system in place though, as insurance against the Huntley's of this world.



there were systems in place when huntley was employeed.

personally i don't think it serves any fucntion other than to admonish culpabiltiy when it does go tit's up, it's a way of saying we took ever possible precaution we could...


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## Jografer (Apr 2, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> there were systems in place when huntley was employeed.



Not the enhanced system there wasn't... & the systems that were in place clearly *didn't* work...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Apr 2, 2008)

Jografer said:


> Not the enhanced system there wasn't... & the systems that were in place clearly *didn't* work...



oh right cos the system they have now where instead of it being done locally where the local blaggers were known to the local police sending it of to Osted who then take somewhere in the region of 32 weeks to process the forms, which you have to send originals in for and which are often lost or destroyed with out notice so the whole process has to begin again, meaning that staff are routinely taken on without CRB or with CRB pending due to the impossible situation that OFSted have created.  

So previously it would be a locally based locally refference no applicable nationally so each time oyu mvoed you'd have to re register with the local police who'd then cross refference you against all the known db of suspects etc... now none of it on check national doens't get donw by the police often doesn't get done by ofsted until in the cases of say holiday clubs after school clubs long after staff have left. 

you say the old system didn't work but it did, it jsut wasn't efficent or a national database of records on people.  the current system is merely lip service to accounablity when in reality it places most kids and the vunerable in general under greater risk...


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## Oula (Apr 4, 2008)

I know someone who was cautioned for weed during his PGCE - about 6 weeks before the end. He also went to a party to celebrate the end of it and dived into a shallow swimming pool, breaking his nose and blacking both his eyes. He did his interview for the school he wanted to teach at with 2 black eyes and a caution for drugs less than 2 months old and still got the job. Mind you, it was to teach art.

I'm sure you'll be fine.


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## xconorx (Apr 4, 2008)

LilMissHissyFit said:


> If he didnt get any paperwork or anything it wont show on a CRB.



Sort of. 
The enhanced CRB check (I had to do it a few times for teaching) means everything inc. cautions as a previous poster said. Even if you did not receive a formal caution, there can be repercussions.

5 years ago I was arrested for criminal damage during some anti-war shite - we were interviewed and released without formal caution, but told we would eventually be cautioned, this never happened. 6 months later it showed-up on my enhanced CRB check as "case-pending" despite the fact we'd never been charged with anything.
the college I did my PGCE at asked for a character-reference which my old supervisor did and it was all cool cos it was a lefty college and I said it was anti-war stuff and that was grand.

Two-years later it came up, again, on an enhanced CRB check as "case-pending". In this case the cops had just made a fuck-up of not bothering to process it either way (either charge or caution us) so it just sat there as "case-pending" which looks even worse probably.

Caution are never considered spent for the purposes of enhanced CRB from what I gather.


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## Final (Apr 4, 2008)

LilMissHissyFit said:


> You cant apply for a CRB check yourself. It has to be done via your employer (or whoever you are volunteering for if applicable) although you fill in the form you hand it to the employer who sends it in
> You then get a copy and the organisation asking for it will get a copy.
> Full info here
> http://www.crb.gov.uk/



Isn't there a way of checking it under the data protection act?

What if someone else got a caution but had given your name / address details?



eta:http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=417

Will this have all the info?


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## Final (Apr 4, 2008)

> If you are worried or concerned about what may be, or has been, revealed by your CRB check you can talk in confidence to the Nacro helpline. Nacro is a crime reduction charity that works with ex-offenders and is able to answer specific queries on good practice in relation to employment and offenders. (T: 0800 0181 259 or Email helpline@nacro.org.uk).



http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=381


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