# Tax return blues - would a bit of solidarity help?



## billy_bob (Jan 8, 2015)

I said I wouldn't do it and I have - I've left the bloody thing till now.  

I was only partially self-employed during 2013-14, but I've no head for figures and finances and even the three months I've got to file for are enough to make me long for the blessed release from responsibility of early onset dementia.

I thought a thread where I and fellow returnees could rant, whimper, and maybe even offer the odd bit of supportive advice to each other might help?

On the bright side, in three weeks' time it'll be at least eleven months before the _next _time I realise I've left it all dangerously late, lost my HMRC login details, and kept woefully incomplete records of just about everything


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## cypher79 (Jan 9, 2015)

I know how you feel. I've got loads of paperwork and receipts here for my tax return, but I just can't be arsed/doing with it. I keep looking at it hoping it will go away......but it isn't


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## billy_bob (Jan 9, 2015)

Have just realised I misunderstood the 'interest you have been paid' section, adding several hundred pounds to my calculated bill! Back to square one 

I suppose in fairness the process is about as simple as it could be, and most of the problems I have are caused by my own cretinousness.  Still, they could have more £££ out of me if I spent less time doing this and more doing paid work.

Thank god for the online forms, at least.  I would have wasted about six paper copies by now.....


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## bemused (Jan 15, 2015)

Urgh, I did mine the moment I was able and paid the tax man a substantial lump of cash only them to fine me a further £70 for not ticking one of their poorly label boxes.

The online tax return system isn't user friendly.


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## billy_bob (Jan 15, 2015)

bemused said:


> £70 for not ticking one of their poorly label boxes.



That's a pretty steep rate per tick.  

I'm thinking it might be worth paying an accountant not to do it for me but just to talk me through the form next time (when it'll be a much bigger job because I'll have been self-employed for most of the year).  I don't find the form too unfriendly - it's the wording of the questions themselves that throws me.


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## _angel_ (Jan 15, 2015)

Technically, I could file it now, as there is nothing to pay, but I'd like to get all the little bits and pieces done properly for my own peace of mind. So it's going to take a few more days before I can do this.


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## purenarcotic (Jan 15, 2015)

I almost cried yesterday on the phone to hmrc when they told me I didn't need to fill one out and they could just make an adjustment on the system as I only did a short bit of sessional work before my job. The form I tried to fill in the day before nearly drove me to drink, it was awful. Good luck!


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## billy_bob (Jan 15, 2015)

All done 

Didn't even get a nasty shock when I saw how much it reckoned I owe.  Although that may just be the proof that I've done it wrong.....


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## StoneRoad (Jan 15, 2015)

Has anybody had the *delight* of using the 'phone helpline this year ?
I *might* need it this year ................ one of the potential problems with the form when you do work that doesn't "fit" the system, although this may be OK - further study needed.
No wonder tax accountants do so well.


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## billy_bob (Jan 15, 2015)

I used the phone line a few times when I first registered and found them generally helpful, tbh.  I know that's not everyone's experience.  This is presumably the worst fortnight of the year to be trying to get any sense out of them, of course.


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## cypher79 (Jan 15, 2015)

I finally got around to doing mine today, only to find that my login details are not being accepted  so requested them, only to find that they send them by post and it takes a week! This is getting too close for comfort...


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## pesh (Jan 21, 2015)

every time i add the numbers up i get a different total


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## purenarcotic (Jan 21, 2015)

StoneRoad said:


> Has anybody had the *delight* of using the 'phone helpline this year ?
> I *might* need it this year ................ one of the potential problems with the form when you do work that doesn't "fit" the system, although this may be OK - further study needed.
> No wonder tax accountants do so well.



I used the helpline the other day and found them really helpful.  I had something that didn't fit the system and the lovely woman on the other end sorted it all out for me.


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## billy_bob (Jan 22, 2015)

I find the payment bit slightly disconcerting.  

It feels like the way it should work is, you fill the forms in and submit them, the system emails you a breakdown and what you owe and points you to exactly the right part of the site you need to be on to pay.  I don't know if I went the long way round, but it felt like it took me several clicks to many and a detour through another bit of the .gov.uk site before I got to the right place.  I did momentarily wonder whether it was legit or not....


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## cesare (Jan 22, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> I find the payment bit slightly disconcerting.
> 
> It feels like the way it should work is, you fill the forms in and submit them, the system emails you a breakdown and what you owe and points you to exactly the right part of the site you need to be on to pay.  I don't know if I went the long way round, but it felt like it took me several clicks to many and a detour through another bit of the .gov.uk site before I got to the right place.  I did momentarily wonder whether it was legit or not....


On the feedback-on-our-beta-model-survey option, I said it would be helpful if they made it clear that it was a secure payment page because it wasn't obvious.


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## RubyToogood (Jan 22, 2015)

I got sent a surprise letter requesting me to fill in a tax return the other day. I don't know why, I'm all PAYE apart from a bit of interest which I think is taxed at source anyway. I haven't really kept records because I've never had to submit a tax return before in my life and also I've been extremely ill and am just returning to work. I haven't really done anything about it yet. The sum total of my achievements has been to find the letter after losing it.

So it's all a bit fucked.


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## billy_bob (Jan 22, 2015)

RubyToogood said:


> I got sent a surprise letter requesting me to fill in a tax return the other day. I don't know why, I'm all PAYE apart from a bit of interest which I think is taxed at source anyway. I haven't really kept records because I've never had to submit a tax return before in my life and also I've been extremely ill and am just returning to work. I haven't really done anything about it yet. The sum total of my achievements has been to find the letter after losing it.
> 
> So it's all a bit fucked.



I guess it's because of the interest (there's a place on the form to declare this, even if it has already been taxed) - but I've been in the same position (no non-PAYE earnings except tiny amount of interest) in past years and was never asked to do a return for it.  I'd ring them and check - good luck getting through at this point though....


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## RubyToogood (Jan 22, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> I guess it's because of the interest (there's a place on the form to declare this, even if it has already been taxed) - but I've been in the same position (no non-PAYE earnings except tiny amount of interest) in past years and was never asked to do a return for it.  I'd ring them and check - good luck getting through at this point though....


I probably need to find out how much interest I did earn... the bit of paper will be somewhere... <sigh>

It might also be because I was working two jobs for a while. They seemed to deduct an unreasonably large amount for that retrospectively


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## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

I can't even begin to tell you how much I dread this yearly nightmare.


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## billy_bob (Jan 22, 2015)

RubyToogood said:


> I probably need to find out how much interest I did earn... the bit of paper will be somewhere... <sigh>
> 
> It might also be because I was working two jobs for a while. They seemed to deduct an unreasonably large amount for that retrospectively



I found it easier to just ring the institution that paid me interest.  I generally don't understand bits of paper sent to me by banks etc.....


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## DexterTCN (Jan 22, 2015)

cypher79 said:


> I finally got around to doing mine today, only to find that my login details are not being accepted  so requested them, only to find that they send them by post and it takes a week! This is getting too close for comfort...


Have you phoned them and explained why there will be a delay so you can get an extension?   Otherwise you will have to appeal a £100 late filing penalty - which is a lot more hassle and you may lose the appeal.  03002003310

btw it's up to two weeks for those details to arrive.


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## billy_bob (Jan 22, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Have you phoned them and explained why there will be a delay so you can get an extension?   Otherwise you will have to appeal a £100 late filing penalty - which is a lot more hassle and you may lose the appeal.  03002003310
> 
> btw it's up to two weeks for those details to arrive.



Yep, I've heard, from others who've asked for extensions for far more complex reasons, that they're actually fairly easy to get - as long as you sort it with them before the deadline.  After that they get a lot less nice.


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## cypher79 (Jan 23, 2015)

I got a new user ID in the post yesterday and got my return done online today 

Safe for another year...


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## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

I've made two piles of my bank statements. That's a start.


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## iamwithnail (Jan 25, 2015)

Finally got this done. I'll admit that I bit the bullet and got an accountant to do mine, and it's STILL a stress, was looking over the forms and stuff last night, I have no idea where I'd even start with it. Respect to Everyone who's doing their own!


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## rorymac (Jan 25, 2015)

I did mine a couple of weeks ago and absolutely destroyed myself with honesty .. I'm just sharing that in an attempt to alleviate a personal sense of bereftness, confusion and abject misery and I apologise tbf. Oh my God it hurts !!

<vomits>


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## DexterTCN (Jan 25, 2015)

Does anyone ever consider doing it in June or July?


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## Looby (Jan 25, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Does anyone ever consider doing it in June or July?


[emoji1]


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 25, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Does anyone ever consider doing it in June or July?



I did it before christmas once. Felt pretty shit hot about that.


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## Looby (Jan 25, 2015)

People that claim tax credits have to do it before July so I guess that gets some into the habit of doing it early. 

I'm the queen of procrastination but if I was paying payments on account/not sure what I was going to have to pay then I think I'd do it early. Probably easier to find the paperwork in April than January anyway as it might not be completely buried. [emoji1]

Also, if you're likely to need help from HMRC, trying to get in touch this week is ridiculous.


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## rorymac (Jan 25, 2015)

I suppose if one is to break out in an astonishing act of honesty and self sabotage maybe best do so in January when one is already quite tearful

Excuse me <paaaaarp>


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## _angel_ (Jan 25, 2015)

think I've finished, but a question about allowances for goods bought-to-be sold as an expense. The box says:
"Costs of goods bought for re-sale or goods used:" I got told by someone from HMRC at a seminar that you can only include the cost price of things you actually sold, regardless of when they were bought. IE if you bought a load of stuff that didn't sell, that doesn't get included as an expense. and that they don't just want a list of stock you bought. The wording of this bit of the form confused me if that was the case or not.
eta. either way the number is pretty similar in this case.


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## free spirit (Jan 25, 2015)

oh shit, when's it due? Luckily my brother does our accounts, but he was last seen muttering something about a discrepancy of a few grand that he couldn't work out.


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## 8115 (Jan 25, 2015)

free spirit said:


> oh shit, when's it due? Luckily my brother does our accounts, but he was last seen muttering something about a discrepancy of a few grand that he couldn't work out.


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## free spirit (Jan 25, 2015)

I forgot to add that we've got a really busy week on site this week.


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## billy_bob (Jan 25, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Does anyone ever consider doing it in June or July?



Fuck that: at least January's shit already as a month - might as well do it then.

Then again, I tend to wake up at 3am every morning for about a month either side of the longest day (as my posting history on here will attest), so I have a lot of free time around then.  But am generally borderline-hallucinating from tiredness, so on the other hand....


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## billy_bob (Jan 25, 2015)

free spirit said:


> oh shit, when's it due? Luckily my brother does our accounts, but he was last seen muttering something about a discrepancy of a few grand that he couldn't work out.



Not posting from the Maldives are you?


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## free spirit (Jan 25, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> Not posting from the Maldives are you?


I wish, sounds like a good option though.


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## billy_bob (Jan 26, 2015)

I am now very much enjoying deleting HMRC's increasingly frequent 'Have you done it yet? Well, have you???' email-shots without a second glance.


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## cesare (Jan 26, 2015)

Has anyone used the self assessment chat line service?

https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/7804803389239138818


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## AnnaKarpik (Jan 26, 2015)

_angel_ said:


> think I've finished, but a question about allowances for goods bought-to-be sold as an expense. The box says:
> "Costs of goods bought for re-sale or goods used:" I got told by someone from HMRC at a seminar that you can only include the cost price of things you actually sold, regardless of when they were bought. IE if you bought a load of stuff that didn't sell, that doesn't get included as an expense. and that they don't just want a list of stock you bought. The wording of this bit of the form confused me if that was the case or not.
> eta. either way the number is pretty similar in this case.



You take the value of stock that you had at the beginning of the tax year (opening stock), add the cost of what you've bought during the year and deduct the cost of what you have left at the end of the year (closing stock).


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## _angel_ (Jan 26, 2015)

AnnaKarpik said:


> You take the value of stock that you had at the beginning of the tax year (opening stock), add the cost of what you've bought during the year and deduct the cost of what you have left at the end of the year (closing stock).


Yes, thanks, I just read that somewhere. So you're only adding in the stock that was actually sold in that tax year, which I did.


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## lazythursday (Jan 26, 2015)

oh god oh god oh god. I have made a pile of bank statements. Now how the fuck do I work out how much of my mortgage payment is interest for the purposes of claiming a chunk of it as a business expense? And I can't remember what calculations I made to justify various expenses last time why do I never write anything down ffs. Why does this have to happen in the worst possible month of the year for it to happen? And now cursing myself for switching to an online accounting package and then not using it correctly and leaving it all in a mess till the final sodding week...


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## iamwithnail (Jan 26, 2015)

It'll say on your mortgage statement how much is capital and how much is interest, by month.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Still looking at the piles of bank statements here. From afar.


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## lazythursday (Jan 26, 2015)

iamwithnail said:


> It'll say on your mortgage statement how much is capital and how much is interest, by month.


This isn't the case... it just shows a lump amount for the calendar year - so if the interest rate changes during the year it's impossible to work it out... grrrr

Right - mobile phone and broadband. In previous years I have put 50% of this as a business expense. But in reality I cannot do business without them, using them personally makes no difference to the bill - so am I justified in claiming 100%?


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## iamwithnail (Jan 26, 2015)

Oh.  It shows me on mine.  Sorry!


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## friedaweed (Jan 26, 2015)

cesare said:


> Has anyone used the self assessment chat line service?
> 
> https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/7804803389239138818


Only for lols


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## billy_bob (Jan 26, 2015)

lazythursday said:


> This isn't the case... it just shows a lump amount for the calendar year - so if the interest rate changes during the year it's impossible to work it out... grrrr
> 
> Right - mobile phone and broadband. In previous years I have put 50% of this as a business expense. But in reality I cannot do business without them, using them personally makes no difference to the bill - so am I justified in claiming 100%?



In short, no.  You're not allowed to claim for all of a thing just because you only have it/need it because you do business with it, if you also use it for non-business for some of the time.

e2a - it might be a judgement call whether to declare that for something the usage of which couldn't be disaggregated - but with phone/internet there's obviously a data trail of non-business usage.  I wouldn't risk it


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## billy_bob (Jan 26, 2015)

friedaweed said:


> Only for lols



Like paying tax? Like calculating allowable expense differentials? Want to talk to people just like you? 

Call Tax-chat - all tax, all chat, all night....


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## Sue (Jan 26, 2015)

It it makes anyone feel better... I got my tax return in at the end of November as I paid too much on account in July and was expecting a rebate. So HMRC sent the cheque out in December but to the wrong address -- some random postcode apparently. So they've now cancelled that cheque and are reissuing it but they can't say when I'll get the cash because they're so busy at the moment. So getting it in early in hope of getting my money back has turned out to be a bit pointless.


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## lazythursday (Jan 27, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> In short, no.  You're not allowed to claim for all of a thing just because you only have it/need it because you do business with it, if you also use it for non-business for some of the time.
> 
> e2a - it might be a judgement call whether to declare that for something the usage of which couldn't be disaggregated - but with phone/internet there's obviously a data trail of non-business usage.  I wouldn't risk it


Would HMRC be able to get hold of internet usage data? surely not? Anyway I shall not risk it and go for 60/40. 

This is a bastard of a year for me because I was pre-paid for loads of work on March 30th, my tax is going to be at least a third more than usual. 

I'm assuming that the system still fails to automatically take off your payments on account? I get horribly confused at the payment stage every single year...


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## friedaweed (Jan 27, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> Like paying tax? Like calculating allowable expense differentials? Want to talk to people just like you?
> 
> Call Tax-chat - all tax, all chat, all night....


I just pretended I was 'Children's entertainer' Ken Dodd and explained I'd had difficulties with the forms in the past.  It was a slow day at work


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## iamwithnail (Jan 27, 2015)

lazythursday said:


> Would HMRC be able to get hold of internet usage data? surely not? Anyway I shall not risk it and go for 60/40.



No.  Not without prosecuting you for evasion, first.  In the first instance they might ask you to provide the basis for your breakdown, but the record keeping requirement is supposed to be proportional to size of claim/tax burden, etc.


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## friedaweed (Jan 27, 2015)

My biggest regret from my SE days was being stupendously honest


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 27, 2015)

Just plopped mine in a couple of days earlier than usual. 
Hooray. I don't have to pay anything because it was a shit year that my payments on account can cover. 

. . . 
Bad news is that I had a great year this year and I am going to be screwed this time next year if I don't get some work, as I have already spent a large chunk of my earnings. I will have enough to cover my tax and nsc4's but if I don't pull my finger out there is no way I can do next Jans payments on account.


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## lazythursday (Jan 27, 2015)

I'm kind of worried I'm in that position this year. I can't find my figures re payments on account for 13/14... but I suspect it's going to be at least a grand less than I actually owe. And the system will then automatically want a much bigger payment on account for the current tax year but I think you can just manually change this?  I wish you could just do the payments on account by monthly direct debit that get gradually adjusted as you file your tax returns, it would make all this so much less stressful.


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## billy_bob (Jan 27, 2015)

iamwithnail said:


> No.  Not without prosecuting you for evasion, first.  In the first instance they might ask you to provide the basis for your breakdown, but the record keeping requirement is supposed to be proportional to size of claim/tax burden, etc.



I agree it would be incredibly unlikely to come back and bite you if you're a sole trader or very small business, and maybe I'm overly law-abiding on this one, but as long as evidence of use is in existence which is different to what you've declared, I wouldn't bother.


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## lazythursday (Jan 27, 2015)

Oh joy. I have discovered the concept of deferred income. I can perfectly legitimately push a big chunk of income into the following tax year because that was when I actually did the work. Now I am simply nervous rather than scared as I tot up the final expenses.


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## porp (Jan 27, 2015)

lazythursday said:


> This isn't the case... it just shows a lump amount for the calendar year - so if the interest rate changes during the year it's impossible to work it out... grrrr
> 
> Right - mobile phone and broadband. In previous years I have put 50% of this as a business expense. But in reality I cannot do business without them, using them personally makes no difference to the bill - so am I justified in claiming 100%?


Your mortgage stuff -  are you trying to work out your allowable expenses for working at home? If so,then if you really cant get the interest/capital calculated, you may as well use the simplified method approved by HMRC.
https://www.gov.uk/simpler-income-tax-simplified-expenses/working-from-home


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## porp (Jan 28, 2015)

iamwithnail said:


> No.  Not without prosecuting you for evasion, first.  In the first instance they might ask you to provide the basis for your breakdown, but the record keeping requirement is supposed to be proportional to size of claim/tax burden, etc.


Agree about the proportionality, but there does not need to a prosecution for HMRC to use its powers to require third parties to provide data relevant to the tax position of a person. See here
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/chmanual/CH23620.htm


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## porp (Jan 28, 2015)

lazythursday said:


> Oh joy. I have discovered the concept of deferred income. I can perfectly legitimately push a big chunk of income into the following tax year because that was when I actually did the work. Now I am simply nervous rather than scared as I tot up the final expenses.


Not to detract from your joy, but as well as deferring a chunk of income are you are also deferring claiming the related expenses?


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## lazythursday (Jan 28, 2015)

porp said:


> Your mortgage stuff -  are you trying to work out your allowable expenses for working at home? If so,then if you really cant get the interest/capital calculated, you may as well use the simplified method approved by HMRC.
> https://www.gov.uk/simpler-income-tax-simplified-expenses/working-from-home



I've figured it out - there doesn't appear to have been any rate changes so fine. The simplified method is ridiculous - my heating costs alone during the working period are far more than £10/month! I'm also putting a proportion of mortgage interest, council tax, house insurance.


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## lazythursday (Jan 28, 2015)

porp said:


> Not to detract from your joy, but as well as deferring a chunk of income are you are also deferring claiming the related expenses?


The only expenses incurred on directly that project (train travel for a planning meeting) was incurred well before the actual work took place - in the previous financial year - should I really move that too? bonkers.


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## RubyToogood (Jan 28, 2015)

I managed to be together enough to find the letter telling me I had to do a tax return and phone HMRC. I do have to do it, but apparently it will tell me I didn't have to do it after I've done it. And I don't have to get it in till April. I did think it was a bit harsh only giving me 30 days notice.


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## iamwithnail (Jan 29, 2015)

Filed and invoice paid. Till next year, when I have to worry about a whole bunch of company stuff as well!


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## Dan U (Jan 29, 2015)

Mines gone in via my accountant, on time for once


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## Winot (Jan 31, 2015)

From Twitter


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## ricbake (Jan 31, 2015)

I guess I could have sent it in a couple of weeks ago but anyway it's done now...

I'm really uncomfortable with the fact that the payments go to an account at Citibank - why does HMRC have accounts with an American bank?


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## free spirit (Jan 31, 2015)

good news, tax return is in and I don't owe any tax.

Bad news, I appear to have worked an entire year for minus money 2 years in a row. 

Got to get this making money rather than losing money thing sorted out this year.


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## 1927 (Feb 1, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Does anyone ever consider doing it in June or July?


I had mine down by middle of April! This year I've done it all as I've gone along, a massive spread sheet detailing every invoice, every type of expense, with built in calculations to tell me at a glance how much I should have put away to pay tax and NI.

Theoretically on 5th April I will be able to complete this years at the touch of a button!


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## scifisam (Feb 1, 2015)

1927 said:


> I had mine down by middle of April! This year I've done it all as I've gone along, a massive spread sheet detailing every involve, every type of expense, with built in calculations to tell me at a glance how much I should have put away to pay tax and NI.
> 
> Theoretically on 5th April I will be able to complete this years at the touch of a button!


I did mine in May - had to wait till then before the website would let me do it. But I do have a very simple tax return.


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## billy_bob (Mar 19, 2015)

I see Ozzy's proposing to scrap the whole thing in favour of ongoing on-line submission/calculation, rolling out from next year.

In light of government's stellar record of managing large-scale IT projects, not to mention data protection, I won't hold my breath...


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## billy_bob (Dec 2, 2015)

Recuscitating this thread for a bit of a gloat. Not only have I just filed my tax return for 14-15 (a big piece of work didn't materialise this week so I had to find something fun to do with my time), they apparently owe me money 

Actually, the last part worries me slightly. It does suggest I've made a mistake on the form. I won't buy masses of cocaine and heap it all over my desk in a big mountain until I've checked the figures again...


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## bi0boy (Dec 2, 2015)

I've just set up ltd company so I can look forward to corporation tax, NI, VAT, dividend tax, accounts and all that sort of stuff


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## StoneRoad (Dec 2, 2015)

Excuse me a moment ...

[feckin' V A bliddy T quarterly returns - this is seriously doing me heid in atm]

ah, that's better for a quick rant.
I wish hmrc would realise that not everybody has regular income and expenses, our pattern really doesn't fit their VAT system.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 2, 2015)

They haven't set me a request to do one yet. Might they have forgotten or changed their mind?


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## bi0boy (Dec 2, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> They haven't set me a request to do one yet. Might they have forgotten or changed their mind?



I thought that a couple of years ago, and ended up with a £100 fine.


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## Cribynkle (Dec 2, 2015)

I started mine 2 weeks ago, then got bored and need to start it again. Really shouldn't have left it till now, this is my busiest time of year and I could really do without having to fill it in at the mo


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 4, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> I thought that a couple of years ago, and ended up with a £100 fine.



Yeah. Lying bastards just told me that they'd sent a request in April. So now it's the yearly rigmarole of getting an online ID and a password reset.


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## billy_bob (Dec 5, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> They haven't set me a request to do one yet. Might they have forgotten or changed their mind?



You have stepped outside the matrix. Congratulations - you no longer need to comply with any of society's laws.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 7, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> I've just set up ltd company so I can look forward to corporation tax, NI, VAT, dividend tax, accounts and all that sort of stuff




Never be late with the VAT.

Never be late with the VAT.

That is all.


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## Reno (Dec 8, 2015)

Every year I promise myself to do the accounts myself to save some money and at the last moment I send it all off to my accountant. And that still takes a day to collect and sort all the receipts and statements.


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## billy_bob (Dec 14, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> Recuscitating this thread for a bit of a gloat. Not only have I just filed my tax return for 14-15 (a big piece of work didn't materialise this week so I had to find something fun to do with my time), they apparently owe me money
> 
> Actually, the last part worries me slightly. It does suggest I've made a mistake on the form. I won't buy masses of cocaine and heap it all over my desk in a big mountain until I've checked the figures again...



I've just managed finally to query this with HMRC, and they're satisfied that the nearly £1k they've just sent me is genuinely owed to me.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 14, 2015)

That's what they said to me about £4k a couple of years ago which they then changed their mind about and demanded with menace . . .


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## Winot (Dec 14, 2015)

My new accountant found out recently that I was owed a tax rebate.  They put in the return and ticked the box asking HMRC to pay it into my bank a/c.  A few weeks later they checked and found that HMRC had interpreted that as an instruction to keep the money on my account 

Even after they were told that no, really, I did want the money, it took a good couple of weeks for them to send it.


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## billy_bob (Dec 14, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> That's what they said to me about £4k a couple of years ago which they then changed their mind about and demanded with menace . . .



what, like 'say hello to my little friend'?

Enough with the Scarface analogies billy_bob.


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## Cloo (Dec 14, 2015)

Mine's sorted by accountants a while back (have a massive whack of Capital Gains to pay in January, but I was well prepared for that). 

I'm trying, without being naggy, to get my other half to do his in good time. He did a 3-month contract role at the end of 2013, and his business accountants said he shouldn't owe anything on his personal return. In the end (admittedly due to multiple stresses going on), he did his return late in the afternoon of 31 January this year. It said he owed them a significant proportion of what he earned in that time. With no time to bloody dispute it, I basically put most of my savings in to pay it. They've asked him, and he's paid more since. I cannot believe it can be correct and really need him to do that return and in good time, because frankly if it says anything less than that HMRC owe him several grand, it needs to go to my accountants to make sure it's right, and I don't know what info he may have to gather for that!


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## Sea Star (Dec 14, 2015)

I don't even need to do a tax return this year but forgot to tick the box telling them this last year. So I have to at least make a phone call to let them know what I did. Why have I left it so late though? I always do!


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## Reno (Dec 14, 2015)

I have an accountant but I still seem to be doing most of the work. Sorting through receipts for the last tax year (I always chuck everything in one drawer), printing out my invoices and lots more receipts as so much is done online now, checking my bank statements. With a lot of procrastinating pauses I manage to drag out this task to two days at least. After getting a cranky reminder letter from the accountant to send him my paperwork I'm finally doing it all today and as far as I'm concerned it's hell on earth! Would I be better off doing it all myself, saving myself the accountant ? I'm freelance, so I can claim for a lot of stuff. I know what I can claim for but never the percentage. 

Everything to do with numbers makes me break out in hives, I hate.


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## wayward bob (Dec 15, 2015)

can i just double check - the returns due this jan are for the financial year 2014-15? so having registered as a sole trader in october means i don't have to do one this year?


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 15, 2015)

wayward bob said:


> can i just double check - the returns due this jan are for the financial year 2014-15? so having registered as a sole trader in october means i don't have to do one this year?



Yep, unless you earned over £100k in 14/15 or had non-PAYE income.


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## wayward bob (Dec 15, 2015)

hahahahahahahaha. no


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 15, 2015)

wayward bob said:


> can i just double check - the returns due this jan are for the financial year 2014-15? so having registered as a sole trader in october means i don't have to do one this year?



Correct. Your return for this year (ending April somethingth 2016) will be due by the end of January 2017.


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## Reno (Dec 15, 2015)

I've decided to try and do my self-assessment tax myself instead of getting an accountant. I'm using this software called GoSimpleTax. I can claim for stuff like travel as a self employed person. Do I really need a receipt to claim expenses or is it alright if it says in my bank statement "£32 to London Underground" ?

Also, can I claim my mortgage payments for use of home as office ? It has something to claim for rent, but not for mortgage in the expenses section.

This is supposed to be child's play, but it's more complicated than they say.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 15, 2015)

Are you a limited company or a sole trader? If the latter, your accounts can be a bit vaguer. If the former, expenses accounting needs to be incredibly scrupulous.


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## Reno (Dec 15, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Are you a limited company or a sole trader?


I'm a sole trader.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 15, 2015)

The bank statement is fine, it evidences that there was a legitimate expense. The use of home as office and adjusting profits accordingly is complicated, it's affected by how much travel away from the office you're also claiming for! An accountant's advice on that sort of thing is often helpful.


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## Reno (Dec 15, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> The bank statement is fine, it evidences that there was a legitimate expense. The use of home as office and adjusting profits accordingly is complicated, it's affected by how much travel away from the office you're also claiming for! An accountant's advice on that sort of thing is often helpful.


My accountant is crap and never replies to my emails. I've never actually met him. As I'm trying to do this without him I don't think he'll be keen to help


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 16, 2015)

Reno said:


> I've decided to try and do my self-assessment tax myself instead of getting an accountant. I'm using this software called GoSimpleTax. I can claim for stuff like travel as a self employed person. Do I really need a receipt to claim expenses or is it alright if it says in my bank statement "£32 to London Underground" ?
> 
> Also, can I claim my mortgage payments for use of home as office ? It has something to claim for rent, but not for mortgage in the expenses section.
> 
> This is supposed to be child's play, but it's more complicated than they say.


If your travel is to a regular place of work for one freelance job, then technically you can't claim. If you make a one off journey then you can. The home office is something you can claim for, heating etc too. I personally never bother.


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## Pingu (Dec 19, 2015)

Reno said:


> I've decided to try and do my self-assessment tax myself instead of getting an accountant. I'm using this software called GoSimpleTax. I can claim for stuff like travel as a self employed person. Do I really need a receipt to claim expenses or is it alright if it says in my bank statement "£32 to London Underground" ?
> 
> Also, can I claim my mortgage payments for use of home as office ? It has something to claim for rent, but not for mortgage in the expenses section.
> 
> This is supposed to be child's play, but it's more complicated than they say.



that really is much much easier but any idea how its viewed by HMRC?


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## 8115 (Dec 19, 2015)

Reno said:


> I've decided to try and do my self-assessment tax myself instead of getting an accountant. I'm using this software called GoSimpleTax. I can claim for stuff like travel as a self employed person. Do I really need a receipt to claim expenses or is it alright if it says in my bank statement "£32 to London Underground" ?
> 
> Also, can I claim my mortgage payments for use of home as office ? It has something to claim for rent, but not for mortgage in the expenses section.
> 
> This is supposed to be child's play, but it's more complicated than they say.


I think you can claim a part of your mortgage payments, not sure what percentage. If you buy something, say a computer, you can only claim for 10% each year or something. I'm not an accountant.

Look at the notes on the online form, they're actually pretty simply written.


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## 8115 (Dec 19, 2015)

I think I'm going to do mine next Monday.


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## Pingu (Dec 19, 2015)

over and above the simplicity it will have a fairly big advantage for those with ... flexible... expenses. I know HMRC use software that captures a web session*. so they can find out if you alter figures prior to submission to ..erm.. minimise your tax liability

*software like speedtrap (now celebrus) can track all sorts of web activity such as where figures have been entered and then altered, where mouse hovers occur and loads of other stuff. HMRC are a customer. i know this as i was involved in the project that set up the analytics side of things


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## Reno (Dec 19, 2015)

I've given up on doing this myself and sent my paperwork to my accountant. Maybe next year I'll get the hang of It.


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## porp (Dec 20, 2015)

Reno. Maybe next year you can think about using HMRC's approved simplified expenses scheme for the self employed? This would at least help with your home office claim
Simplified expenses if you're self-employed - GOV.UK


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## crossthebreeze (Jan 5, 2016)

Aaargh why did I leave this till now?  At least i haven't forgotton my username or password this year though.


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## crossthebreeze (Jan 24, 2016)

Aaaand after a panic about bus tickets and a bit of confusion about uniform, (i bet that never happens at Google) its submitted!


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## High Voltage (Jan 24, 2016)

Got mine done a couple of weeks ago - then 2 or 3 days after submitting I got a "dreaded brown envelope" from HMRC - gulp!1!1!!1

Well, the good news is that according them I won't have to do an on-line tax return next year - unless my circumstances change

HOORAY!!!!

But

My circumstances have changed, I changed my job and I've now got a company car, so the whole dread process will start all over again next year

Boo!!!!


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## neonwilderness (Jan 26, 2016)

I was vaguely organised last year and did mine in September.

Just about to pay the balance now. This year they seem to have decided to email/text me a reminder every few days


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## lazythursday (Jan 29, 2016)

Just about done it. Like every year had a mad panic at the end when it shows a massive amount of tax due only to realise after a few minutes that the stupid system is ignoring the payments on account already made for the year. And why every single year do I get a whole load of initially worrying screens about my PAYE code being adjusted to reclaim unpaid tax of... £0.00? Anyway done and dusted apart from actually doing the bank transfer.


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## iamwithnail (Jan 29, 2016)

Apparently I still owed them £2.40 from last year? And £1.20 this year.  Oh well.  Took about an hour in the end.


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## TikkiB (Jan 29, 2016)

There's a lot to be said for being a penniless student: the tax return is a doddle.


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## Cloo (Aug 22, 2016)

Getting going on this. Haven't done mine for years, as until last year's I still had some rental income so I had accountants do it, but it really isn't worth it now.

It looked as though I had lost my P60 or the password I needed to access my P60 form for 15-16, and I was in the process of writing a grovelling letter to head of payroll when I tried one last search and found the password email. I didn’t think I could have lost it, I’m quite organised about these things and I was sure I’d have either kept the password and/or printed off the P60 and filed it in my usual place.

It should be simple to do the return, but after going through the faff to recover my HMRC login (given the accountants have been handling it), it seems the standard self assessment software doesn’t cover income from Trusts, and I got some last year (albeit a one-off), so I’ll have to download some extra software – urgh. Although I also got paperwork saying the tax has been paid on it... but I am sure it has to be mentioned even so. Meh.


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## lazythursday (Aug 22, 2016)

Cloo said:


> Getting going on this. Haven't done mine for years, as until last year's I still had some rental income so I had accountants do it, but it really isn't worth it now.
> 
> It looked as though I had lost my P60 or the password I needed to access my P60 form for 15-16, and I was in the process of writing a grovelling letter to head of payroll when I tried one last search and found the password email. I didn’t think I could have lost it, I’m quite organised about these things and I was sure I’d have either kept the password and/or printed off the P60 and filed it in my usual place.
> 
> It should be simple to do the return, but after going through the faff to recover my HMRC login (given the accountants have been handling it), it seems the standard self assessment software doesn’t cover income from Trusts, and I got some last year (albeit a one-off), so I’ll have to download some extra software – urgh. Although I also got paperwork saying the tax has been paid on it... but I am sure it has to be mentioned even so. Meh.


Doing a tax return in August? Frankly this seems bizarre, like having a barbecue in November. The traditional time is January, preferably about the 30th, in that special altered state that only last minute panic can induce.


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## Cloo (Aug 22, 2016)

That's my husband's version, after saying he'll do it since September. He's started talking about doing it (he was going to start yesterday but didn't), so we'll see.

We're going to embark in massive building work before the end of the year, hence me wanting it out of the way now.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 22, 2016)

Impressive. I too like to leave mine until the end of January despite having the perfect lull in work to get on with it now.


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## bi0boy (Aug 22, 2016)

Got to do my first ever ltd company annual return by the end of next month. No idea what they are but who needs an accountant when you've got Google?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 22, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Got to do my first ever ltd company annual return by the end of next month. No idea what they are but who needs an accountant when you've got Google?



I use an accountant, he charges £600 to do the company returns plus my personal returns. Do the monthly payroll/PAYE & VAT ourselves though. That £600 is money well spent, although my guy was defrocked or whatever happens when chartered accountants go to jail, his work is still tip-top and pleases the eyes of HMRC's inspectors so much that they feel no need to inspect. Which is nice.


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## bi0boy (Aug 22, 2016)

I was thinking that by the time I've got in order all the information an accountant would need to begin their work I'm basically more than half way there, so I should probably just carry on and do it myself online. That way I know where I'm at rather than being one of those people who end up saying "well, my accountant told me that...."

It's not like my company has lots of transactions or assets or debts or anything anyway, so it can't be too hard. My personal returns have always been a piece of piss tbh. If I ever have to register for VAT though I'll probably think again.


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## iamwithnail (Aug 22, 2016)

I did my own company returns, they're fine if you're not doing anything complex and are comfortable with self assessment for income tax. That company only made a 656 loss the whole year though and took no income so it was pretty straightforward - my actual company will be a bit more complex but now I know what I'm doing I'm pretty solid on it - can do my own r&d claim as well.
Nerdily, I've already started my own self assessment so that I could get it done, it's about 60℅ there, just need a few bits and pieces really.

ETA: this isn't really solidarity, more smugness. Sorry.


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## bi0boy (Aug 30, 2016)

So apparently annual returns are no longer a thing - it's now "confirmation statement" which sounds like something to do with baptisms


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## bi0boy (Aug 30, 2016)

So the HMRC is being a total cunt again. Logged in using my password to submit my annual returns and at the very last step it asks again for my password so i input my password again and it says not recognised 

So of course I check, I log out, I log in again successfully using my password, go to submit and it asks for my password so i type the same password and it says no 

Then it fucking locks me out for an unspecified period


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## bi0boy (Aug 30, 2016)




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## quiet guy (Aug 31, 2016)

It's a cunning plan to have a load of people file late annual returns and incur penalties


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## crossthebreeze (Jan 13, 2017)

Was gonna use my "snow day" to chill, but ended up finishing last years accounts, filling in my tax return, and paying tax and NI (first time i've paid tax for a few years, it came as a bit of a shock even though i knew i would have to pay something).  Think i need to get wrecked now!
Solidarity to anyone else who's doing theirs!


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## lazythursday (Jan 13, 2017)

I did most of mine yesterday - worked out all my accounts, apart from a pile of travel receipts I need to work through. So I more or less know how much it is and it's painful. I had an exceptionally good year in 15/16, so what I've paid on account for that year is not enough by quite some margin, whereas 16/17 has been my worst year since going self employed so I'm really short of cash and am likely going to have to pay it on a credit card, arrgh.


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## wayward bob (Jan 16, 2017)

still writing up my income/expenditure atm.

what's your oddest business expense? mine is sparrow wings


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## lazythursday (Jan 16, 2017)

Just had a debate with someone about how much you are allowed to claim for home office - they are sticking to the HMRC 'standard rate' which is something ludicrous like £10/month - I claim a large portion of my heating bills and chunks of most other bills according to a formula. Always makes me nervous that I might be overclaiming everytime I go through this process, I wish they made it clearer what's allowed.


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## iamwithnail (Jan 16, 2017)

I've got a rental contract with myself / my limited company that sets out the basis of the remuneration/contribution for home office, and the contribution is declared back on my self assessment, as I needed to cover both ends - are you limited co or sole trading? Suppose that's different as I'm declaring it as income on SA and as a cost to the company.


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## lazythursday (Jan 16, 2017)

iamwithnail said:


> I've got a rental contract with myself / my limited company that sets out the basis of the remuneration/contribution for home office, and the contribution is declared back on my self assessment, as I needed to cover both ends - are you limited co or sole trading? Suppose that's different as I'm declaring it as income on SA and as a cost to the company.


Sole trading. I have read so many different ways of doing it and what I've settled on isn't exactly consistent but it's what feels fair. Eg, I take 50% of mobile phone and internet costs, because that feels like an accurate fair split - both are fixed cost bills and I probably use more for work than home. For energy, I divide the bill by 7 and multiply by 5 (to get weekdays) then take 50% of that on the basis that I don't use any at night. On other bills (eg council tax) I divide by three (number of rooms in the house minus kitchen / bedroom) and take 80% of that as the room is used 80% for business. It's really confusing though - some guidance would suggest that I should divide by time for something like council tax too - but that seems bonkers, given that the room doesn't magically turn into a useable non-office space at 5pm.


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## iamwithnail (Jan 16, 2017)

Tbf, that's very similar to how I worked out a suitable rate for mine, if that helps!  It makes sense, it's not taking the piss, etc.


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## lazythursday (Jan 16, 2017)

iamwithnail said:


> Tbf, that's very similar to how I worked out a suitable rate for mine, if that helps!  It makes sense, it's not taking the piss, etc.


Thanks, that's useful in bolstering my confidence at this horrible time of year! What unnerves me is the huge difference between doing it this sort of carefully calculated way and just using the no-questions-asked 'simplified expenses' that HMRC offer as an easy alternative.


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## wayward bob (Jan 23, 2017)

for fuck sake  i tried signing in and now it says it "can't confirm your identity". wtaf? tried it twice now and it asks the same questions, i've double-checked the answers and i'm fucking stuck now i can't go any further


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## wayward bob (Jan 23, 2017)

tried their verification thing and that doesn't work either. i have no passport or driving license and their bank account check is "unavailable"


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## iamwithnail (Jan 28, 2017)

Oh my god.  I just logged in to do my tax return, to discover that I'd already done most of it. I fucking love past me. I'm never this organised.    Hugs to all of those still doing it.


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## TikkiB (Jan 28, 2017)

Ok, I'm going in and logging on.  Hopefully this will be as simple as last year - income below the tax allowance while I was studying so nothing to pay.


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## editor (Jan 28, 2017)

Oh God. How I fucking hate this time of year.


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## editor (Jan 28, 2017)




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## iamwithnail (Jan 28, 2017)

*cheers editor on*


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## wayward bob (Jan 28, 2017)

editor said:


> View attachment 99543


it goes from 1 to 95 all in one go


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## wayward bob (Jan 28, 2017)

i managed to get in and i've gone through all the whole lot. they just asked for 2 numbers - total expenditure and income - i always struggle to work out which column to put stuff so that makes it a fucking doddle 

all i need to do is check my bank account against the expenditure and _remember to submit it _


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## bi0boy (Jan 28, 2017)

wayward bob said:


> _remember to submit it _



I was fined £100 for forgetting to do this once. I filled everything in early and thought "I won't submit it yet in case I remember something else to add". I then forgot that last bit and had it in my head that I'd done it all and submitted it.


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## wayward bob (Jan 28, 2017)




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## lazythursday (Jan 28, 2017)

Well I submitted mine, several days early feeling very proud of myself not to be quite so last minute as usual only to discover today that my bank have picked this time of year to freeze my card and all online payments due to a suspected fraudulent transaction. So I can't bloody well pay it. Aaargh.


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## wayward bob (Jan 30, 2017)

help please tax thread!

do i want to voluntarily pay my class 2 national insurance contributions? i've been out of the tax and benefit systems for _years_ so I'm guessing my chance to top all the way back up is screwed anyway?


eta: no worries, my bank card is currently awol - unless hmrc accepts paypal i don't think i'd be able to pay anyway. so done. dusted. whisky


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## editor (Jan 30, 2017)

I'm still in full 'let's clean behind the fridge and do anything but this fucking tax return' panic mode.


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## wayward bob (Jan 30, 2017)

i highly recommend losing money over the tax year as a sure-fire way to get your return done quick


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## wayward bob (Jan 30, 2017)

g'wan ed, you only have to do a page at a time it all auto saves


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## 1927 (Feb 15, 2017)

lazythursday said:


> Just had a debate with someone about how much you are allowed to claim for home office - they are sticking to the HMRC 'standard rate' which is something ludicrous like £10/month - I claim a large portion of my heating bills and chunks of most other bills according to a formula. Always makes me nervous that I might be overclaiming everytime I go through this process, I wish they made it clearer what's allowed.


i dont use an accountant, but consulted a mate this year and discussed what i claim just to make sure there was anything i was missing. His advice was that as lo0ng as you can justify the expenditure then you'd be ok claiming £100 a month and they wouldn't question it.


lazythursday said:


> Sole trading. I have read so many different ways of doing it and what I've settled on isn't exactly consistent but it's what feels fair. Eg, I take 50% of mobile phone and internet costs, because that feels like an accurate fair split - both are fixed cost bills and I probably use more for work than home. For energy, I divide the bill by 7 and multiply by 5 (to get weekdays) then take 50% of that on the basis that I don't use any at night. On other bills (eg council tax) I divide by three (number of rooms in the house minus kitchen / bedroom) and take 80% of that as the room is used 80% for business. It's really confusing though - some guidance would suggest that I should divide by time for something like council tax too - but that seems bonkers, given that the room doesn't magically turn into a useable non-office space at 5pm.


Council tax is fixed tho, and payable whether you work from home or not, i think claiming anything might be questionable!


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## 1927 (Feb 15, 2017)

wayward bob said:


> help please tax thread!
> 
> do i want to voluntarily pay my class 2 national insurance contributions? i've been out of the tax and benefit systems for _years_ so I'm guessing my chance to top all the way back up is screwed anyway?
> 
> ...


You dont know your card details by heart!!!!!?


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## bi0boy (Mar 29, 2017)

Tried to log in. My account is no longer recognised.

Oh they have a live chat. I typed my query up in detail and pressed submit.




Well, thanks for that response HMRC... should I print it or save it?


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## DexterTCN (Mar 29, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Tried to log in. My account is no longer recognised.
> 
> Oh they have a live chat. I typed my query up in detail and pressed submit.
> 
> ...


0300 200 3600 for online services help. open til 8pm during the week


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## bi0boy (Mar 30, 2017)

Thanks, turns out it was their "we locked you out for three hours because you used an old password but we didn't tell you that, instead we made it look like you never existed" and their live chat was "very busy at the moment".


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## neonwilderness (Jan 4, 2018)

Just done mine and it was fairly painless. Although the website is broken at the moment, so I can't submit the calculation 

Thankfully it's saved it, so I just need to go back and submit it/pay before the end of the month.


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## billy_bob (Jan 4, 2018)

Oh crap. This thread is coming back to bite me: this time I've done nowt yet and unlike when I started it in 2015, I've got a full, busy year's worth of stuff to sort out.


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## wayward bob (Jan 5, 2018)

reluctant thread-bump with my fingers in my ears cos hmrc keep emailing me


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## iamwithnail (Jan 5, 2018)

I feel mildly smug that I've acquired an accountant this year (to do my CT as well as personal stuff). Given that I paid over £800 in fees last year (missed confirmation statement return second year in a row, CT late x2 and second penalties), he'll pay for himself, pretty much, never mind the reduced stress!  Hugs for all those persevering themselves!


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## Tooter (Jan 5, 2018)

Usually pretty on it, but currently seem to be pushing this job to the back of my mind and doing everything but my TR at the moment.  I have kind of thrashed out the bones of it though and Ive actually saved my tax in a separate account this year, just got to leave it to critical and then bash it out in an afternoon and wonder what the fuss was about and why I left it so late


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## billy_bob (Jan 6, 2018)

I've got things set up so that the money I'll need is automatically set aside each month, so I'm not worried about the payment itself - just depressed about having to fill in the form. I never learn - every year, the same bits of it catch me out and have me scrabbling about unable to find the info I need.


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## mx wcfc (Jan 6, 2018)

Did it today.  getting a few quid back.  Always handy in Jan.


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## billy_bob (Jan 9, 2018)

Done the bastard.

There really should be a way of storing up goodwill with the HMRC for doing things like declaring £0.58 earned interest, so that if they identify a gaping hole or two in your accounting further down the line they have to be a bit more lenient about it.


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## 8115 (Jan 17, 2018)

wayward bob said:


> reluctant thread-bump with my fingers in my ears cos hmrc keep emailing me


This new filing system. It's very closely modelled on the old one isn't it?

I do my taxes every year, despite not having earnt any money self-employed for about 5 years, because I don't know how to tell HMRC that I don't earn any money self-employed anymore. Just about to do them now. Wish me luck.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 17, 2018)

Shiiiiiit. 
It's only the 17th though. I think I'll do it Friday.


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## 8115 (Jan 17, 2018)

I'm just looking in my file. I've actually got envelopes labelled "other" and my blood is running cold as I realise that I don't have my P60 from last year.


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## moochedit (Jan 17, 2018)

8115 said:


> because I don't know how to tell HMRC that I don't earn any money self-employed anymore.



took me about 5 seconds with google ...

Stop being self-employed - GOV.UK

HMRC: Structured Email


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## bimble (Jan 18, 2018)

aaargh.  Every year i want to be better at this, and every year its a shambles.


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## wayward bob (Jan 18, 2018)




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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2018)

Right. 
Did an complicated invoice this morning, so I am leaving the tax return for tomorrow. I already need another bath.


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## Shirl (Jan 18, 2018)

I'm sure this is probably a stupid question but why do people do tax returns in January instead of at the end of the last financial year?


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## lazythursday (Jan 18, 2018)

Shirl said:


> I'm sure this is probably a stupid question but why do people do tax returns in January instead of at the end of the last financial year?


You are _able_ to do and submit your tax return from a couple of months after the financial year ends (June-ish, I think). But you don't _have_ to until the end of the following January. No sane person would do it until they really have to.


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## bimble (Jan 18, 2018)

Shirl said:


> I'm sure this is probably a stupid question but why do people do tax returns in January instead of at the end of the last financial year?


 Because I am an idiot with no self discipline and would rather do pretty much anything than this (including defrost freezer, sort through sock drawer, google pointless information about anything under the sun) so it gets put off until there is no choice left. HTH.


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## billy_bob (Jan 18, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> You are _able_ to do and submit your tax return from a couple of months after the financial year ends (June-ish, I think). But you don't _have_ to until the end of the following January. No sane person would do it until they really have to.



I think any sane person would do it immediately, while it's all fresh in your mind and you don't have another 9 months' records to push aside to find the details, and to get it out of the way as soon as possible.

I have never done that.


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## Shirl (Jan 18, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> You are _able_ to do and submit your tax return from a couple of months after the financial year ends (June-ish, I think). But you don't _have_ to until the end of the following January. No sane person would do it until they really have to.


Last year was the first time I had to do one and I did it as soon as I got a notification in June as I was worried about doing it so wanted it out of the way. I would be too scared to leave it hanging over me.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 18, 2018)

wayward bob said:


>


If you live in a council flat by  river but are not blind. WHAT?


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## 1927 (Jan 18, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> You are _able_ to do and submit your tax return from a couple of months after the financial year ends (June-ish, I think). But you don't _have_ to until the end of the following January. No sane person would do it until they really have to.


Why?


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## 1927 (Jan 18, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> I think any sane person would do it immediately, while it's all fresh in your mind and you don't have another 9 months' records to push aside to find the details, and to get it out of the way as soon as possible.
> 
> I have never done that.


I think i did mine before the end of april last year!


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## bimble (Jan 18, 2018)

1927 you are not helping. Start another thread called 'smug people who already filed their tax returns months ago'.


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## editor (Jan 18, 2018)

I haven't even started to sort out the huge pile of bank statements yet. Aaaargh.


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## billy_bob (Jan 18, 2018)

See, 1927 ? See what you're doing? You're basically calling our beloved editor a prick with your have-done attitude.

Ban


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2018)

And so it begins. I decided today was the day. 
First of all I internally congratulate myself just for pulling out my user ID and password from a folder on a high shelf. Start tidying the kitchen and childs bedroom (what?) now I have just run myself a deep hot bath (instead of the usual shower). 

As long as I log in today I will call that progress.


----------



## zora (Jan 19, 2018)

That's definitely progress! Don't know what it is about finding the log-in details, but that seems to me like a big mental hurdle, too, and is the task I've set myself for today.


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## billy_bob (Jan 19, 2018)

It's important to have realistic goals


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## bimble (Jan 19, 2018)

feeling v virtuous. Almost done collecting the relevant bits of paper into folders.


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## wayward bob (Jan 19, 2018)

expenditure for april - check


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## ricbake (Jan 19, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> And so it begins. I decided today was the day.
> First of all I internally congratulate myself just for pulling out my user ID and password from a folder on a high shelf. Start tidying the kitchen and childs bedroom (what?) now I have just run myself a deep hot bath (instead of the usual shower).
> 
> As long as I log in today I will call that progress.



Decided to see if I was going to struggle with connecting to HMRC

_"Thank you for sending the online Self Assessment submission to the 'TEST IN LIVE' service."_

That works
I just have to populate the forms with this years figures now......


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## billy_bob (Jan 19, 2018)

Some advice for anyone thinking of becoming self-employed in the future and wanting to make this time of year easier:

never give to charity
never put your money anywhere where it'll earn interest
never, ever, ever do a combination of self-employed working and PAYE working


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## wayward bob (Jan 19, 2018)

i got bogged down with the books in the great LED scramble of may 2016

then i went back to my "filing" and got bogged down in the manic eBay splurge of early 2017

and now the weed is kicking in and it might be wise to take a break


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## wayward bob (Jan 19, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> never, ever, ever do a combination of self-employed working and PAYE working


oh fuck


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## crossthebreeze (Jan 20, 2018)

Well that's my tax return filed anyway.  Hope everyone else isn't having too much difficulty.


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## Cheesypoof (Jan 20, 2018)

i feel your pain...... I am a contracter with my employer and hire a firm to do all my tax...costs me €90 a month!!! i cant be dealing with it


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## iamwithnail (Jan 21, 2018)

. Nm, Repeating something I said earlier.


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## crossthebreeze (Jan 21, 2018)

crossthebreeze said:


> Well that's my tax return filed anyway.  Hope everyone else isn't having too much difficulty.


and then i woke up this morning in a panic realising i'd made a mistake , so have had to amend it - which i didn't realise you could do, but is really easy.  Phew!


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 21, 2018)

bimble said:


> 1927 you are not helping. Start another thread called 'smug people who already filed their tax returns months ago'.



I used to leave it to the last moment, now I have an accountant & I run Xero accountancy software, linked to the bank account, so I reconcile it daily & upload any invoices/receipts for outgoings, so everything is there for my accountant as soon as the tax year ends.

Knowing what I need to pay months in advance is handy for budgeting, especially as I have to file a VAT return in January & pay that too. My blood pressure at this time of year no longer shoots up! 

#smug_bastard.


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## bimble (Jan 21, 2018)

I have a friendly accountant now (recommended by a lovely urbanite) so hopefully things will get better from here on in. I sent them everything on Friday night, in a giant zip file, and now am hoping that they'll get back to me to say they have all the info they need to complete the return on my behalf. In future maybe they'll nudge / encourage me to get things done gradually instead of at the last possible moment.


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 21, 2018)

bimble said:


> I have a friendly accountant now (recommended by a lovely urbanite) so hopefully things will get better from here on in. I sent them everything on Friday night, in a giant zip file, and now am hoping that they'll get back to me to say they have all the info they need to complete the return on my behalf. In future maybe they'll nudge / encourage me to get things done gradually instead of at the last possible moment.



My accountant tries to get people organised, it's easier with clients using accountancy software, she told me last week that her firm was still waiting on stuff from over 200 clients, and the team has been working flat out 6-days a week & 12 hour days. For the first time in my life I found myself feeling sorry for accountants.


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## RubyToogood (Jan 21, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> Some advice for anyone thinking of becoming self-employed in the future and wanting to make this time of year easier:
> 
> never give to charity
> never put your money anywhere where it'll earn interest
> never, ever, ever do a combination of self-employed working and PAYE working


What about if you have 3 PAYE jobs on top of self-employment, including one you had totally forgotten about?


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## RubyToogood (Jan 21, 2018)

8115 said:


> I'm just looking in my file. I've actually got envelopes labelled "other" and my blood is running cold as I realise that I don't have my P60 from last year.


I too had this. However! Whilst searching through my emails in case I had an electronic copy I found a useful note from the finance person asking us all to use our HMRC online tax account, and that has all the details (except the organisation's tax ID  ) in it! Personal tax account: sign in or set up - GOV.UK.

I'd completely forgotten this previously as being too boring. It uses the same login as your self-assessment form.


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## billy_bob (Jan 21, 2018)

RubyToogood said:


> What about if you have 3 PAYE jobs on top of self-employment, including one you had totally forgotten about?



Escape to Guatemala.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 21, 2018)

RubyToogood said:


> What about if you have 3 PAYE jobs on top of self-employment, including one you had totally forgotten about?


If it's an issue you can phone the tax office on 0300 200 3300 (voice operated - say 'coding' to speak to a person) and ask them to send you the p60 details.   They know even if you don't.

Then you'd phone self-assessment (0300 200 3310) and tell them the tax office is delaying your filing by the due date (2 weeks post timescale) and ask for an extension.  

Any reasonable excuse will result in an extension.


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## pengaleng (Jan 22, 2018)

I aint been at work for ages and am expecting invoice hell this week and a pile of unallocated faded unreadable receipts


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 23, 2018)

Great. Set myself up this morning to get all this done. Record on, seat adjusted, files and invoices to my right. Undisturbed until 3pm.
It's quarter past 11. I've gone through several records, started some braised ox cheeks, and browsed longboards on line.

Not logged into my account as of yet.
I think I need to go to the shops, so this might end up being a job for tomorrow.


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## lazythursday (Jan 23, 2018)

I did mine early this year cos of the sneaky pulling of credit card payments in mid Jan. All went surprisingly smoothly this time which has left me with nagging doubts about what awful thing I have done wrong. 

And I have discovered you can pay on account by monthly direct debit. A good idea, or just a cunning way for HMRC to get my cash early and earn interest on it? I am undecided.


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 23, 2018)

lazythursday & everyone else:

*HMRC are planning to move towards quarterly tax returns, i*n the same manner as VAT returns are quarterly, as they more towards ‘Making Tax Digital’, IIRC it was originally due to come in this year, but has been pushed back, from my understanding it's now coming in for VAT registered businesses in 2019, and all other self-employed people & SME's in 2020. 

I am told it should be easy for those of us using the likes of Xero or QuickBooks accountancy software, good luck to everyone else.


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## editor (Jan 23, 2018)

Still struggling at the 'getting started' bit.


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 23, 2018)

editor said:


> Still struggling at the 'getting started' bit.



I used to always find that the hardest, but once I started I would get stuck in & get the bloody thing done.


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## Sasaferrato (Jan 23, 2018)

purenarcotic said:


> I almost cried yesterday on the phone to hmrc when they told me I didn't need to fill one out and they could just make an adjustment on the system as I only did a short bit of sessional work before my job. The form I tried to fill in the day before nearly drove me to drink, it was awful. Good luck!



This time last year, it could well have been me you were speaking to. I was on the SA Helpline. (I filled my own one in on the 31st last year, praying that the system wouldn't crash.).


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## lazythursday (Jan 23, 2018)

The one thing I've grown to like about the whole process is the fact that you are whisked through a portal back to 2004 or so, where you are warned about the length of time it might take to download a PDF file of your return by dial up modem. It is like visiting a video shop or a coal mine or something.


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 23, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> The one thing I've grown to like about the whole process is the fact that you are whisked through a portal back to 2004 or so, where *you are warned about the length of time it might take to download a PDF file of your return by dial up modem*. It is like visiting a video shop or a coal mine or something.



Seriously? 

I've not seen that, as my accountants files my return. But, yeah, the whole HMRC site is a bit of a mess TBH.


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## wayward bob (Jan 24, 2018)

the fine for missing the deadline is less than the fee an accountant would charge and all they do is put the numbers in the right boxes. i'm still at the finding out what the numbers are stage 

i have mysteriously made a pair of beautiful striped mittens in tiny yarn over the past 2 days


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2018)

*Your tax return is 1% complete*


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2018)

Here is a fun one - Firstly - Select No to Select Yes. Secondly, if it knows what it needs me to select then why ask me? 
I ticked yes because I thought it read like 'no' I didn't want to pay. 

*ERROR: There is 1 error on this page.*
Your profits are the same or above the small profit threshold, select 'No' to '*Select Yes if you want to pay Class 2 NICs voluntarily*'


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 24, 2018)

Paid it:

 



Is there a thank you on there? Is there fuck.


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## wayward bob (Jan 24, 2018)

expenditure for may 2016 check \o/


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## Sasaferrato (Jan 24, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I've not seen that, as my accountants files my return. But, yeah, the whole HMRC site is a bit of a mess TBH.



You should have seen it from our side. Software that didn't work then, and is still not stable, Fifteen years later.

The PAYE system doesn't reckon for five week months.  I have had grown men, crying like babies in absolute frustration, and that was just my colleagues.  No a friendly system, and not an intuitive system, because items changed names.


Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Paid it:
> 
> View attachment 125995
> 
> ...



The 'Thank you' is that we don't send the boys round.  (Sorry, still in HMRC mode.)


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2018)

Done. 
I'm not even going to check it. FUck it. 
Due to some large payments on account last year I only have to make a payment of a grand or so (though not done that yet). 
Hopefully I will be paid for my last job to cover me for my July payment on account later in the year.


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## bemused (Jan 24, 2018)

I filled mine out Sunday and got a £2000 bill, the wanky system makes you fill out your bank details so they can send you a rebate then trolls the fuck out of you by giving you a bill. Also, do you notice that account doesn't update the amount you owe straight away meaning you have to go back and check the return to find the amount?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2018)

bemused said:


> I filled mine out Sunday and got a £2000 bill, the wanky system makes you fill out your bank details so they can send you a rebate then trolls the fuck out of you by giving you a bill. Also, do you notice that account doesn't update the amount you owe straight away meaning you have to go back and check the return to find the amount?


Yeah it's really annoying. Surely it's not so super hard to keep your payments on account  on the system.
It's just an electronic version of a piece of paper.


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## purenarcotic (Jan 24, 2018)

Sasaferrato said:


> This time last year, it could well have been me you were speaking to. I was on the SA Helpline. (I filled my own one in on the 31st last year, praying that the system wouldn't crash.).



It was a woman so I doubt it!


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## wayward bob (Jan 26, 2018)

my tax return is 1% complete 

which means i actually got into the account \o/


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## bemused (Jan 26, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah it's really annoying. Surely it's not so super hard to keep your payments on account  on the system.
> It's just an electronic version of a piece of paper.



I don't mind paying the tax, it's just the system is so shit that you have to wait for it wait for the account to update before you know if you're payment has gone through. I've got a receipt from WorldPay for the cash but the system still doesn't show I've made the payment. It's pants.


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## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 26, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> Some advice for anyone thinking of becoming self-employed in the future and wanting to make this time of year easier
> 
> never, ever, ever do a combination of self-employed working and PAYE working


I done this! I found it easy enough if time consuming. I did mine at the start of the year though for tax credits, I can imagine it would become a nightmare if you only started now. 


Get it done in April. Saves a lot of pain!


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## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 26, 2018)

having said that went through a period of tax credits saying YOU OWE THIS, ended up getting first a refund from doing the return then another from tax credits as I hadn't earned enough to even pay tax that year!


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## bemused (Jan 26, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> having said that went through a period of tax credits saying YOU OWE THIS, ended up getting first a refund from doing the return then another from tax credits as I hadn't earned enough to even pay tax that year!



The very first time I did self-cert I got a £800 refund. This is cool I thought. However, like drug dealers that's just a trick to get suck you in - ever since then I've always owed them.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 26, 2018)

bemused said:


> I don't mind paying the tax, it's just the system is so shit that you have to wait for it wait for the account to update before you know if you're payment has gone through. I've got a receipt from WorldPay for the cash but the system still doesn't show I've made the payment. It's pants.



Oh I totally agree. It's a fucking mess. 
I got this message for instance
 "ERROR! Your profits are the same or above the small profit threshold, select 'No' to 'Select Yes"
What? Select no to select yes??? On top of that, if it knows what I MUST select, and thats all I can select, why do I have to select it? And having to fill out all the same shit all over again is frickin' annoying. I only really need to put money earned, and things bought for work. The end.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 26, 2018)

bemused said:


> The very first time I did self-cert I got a £800 refund. This is cool I thought. However, like drug dealers that's just a trick to get suck you in - ever since then I've always owed them.


Every year I pay the exact amount I owe, but somehow always get a small rebate after April.


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## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 26, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh I totally agree. It's a fucking mess.
> I got this message for instance
> "ERROR! Your profits are the same or above the small profit threshold, select 'No' to 'Select Yes"
> What? Select no to select yes??? On top of that, if it knows what I MUST select, and thats all I can select, why do I have to select it? And having to fill out all the same shit all over again is frickin' annoying. I only really need to put money earned, and things bought for work. The end.


I only learned after a year that you didn't have to keep receipts for small purchases. I was childminding, used to always out and about swimming, museums etc. I could have set all those receipts on fire when I found out.


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## bemused (Jan 26, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh I totally agree. It's a fucking mess.
> I got this message for instance
> "ERROR! Your profits are the same or above the small profit threshold, select 'No' to 'Select Yes"
> What? Select no to select yes??? On top of that, if it knows what I MUST select, and thats all I can select, why do I have to select it? And having to fill out all the same shit all over again is frickin' annoying. I only really need to put money earned, and things bought for work. The end.



What really pisses me off is they have a real-time feed into my business for this very fucking purpose. And, they still fuck it up.


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## wayward bob (Jan 26, 2018)

my ambition is to one day owe tax


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## Vintage Paw (Jan 26, 2018)

wayward bob said:


> my ambition is to one day owe tax



Same. I only had to pay NI last year. It will be the same this year. Him indoors gets part of my allowance and we split the proceeds


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## bemused (Jan 27, 2018)

wayward bob said:


> my ambition is to one day owe tax



My ambition is to owe enough tax to be able to afford one of those nice accountants that Starbucks use.


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## Schmetterling (Jan 27, 2018)

Done last night and for the first time. 
There are a lot of sections one doesn’t really understand and just clicks an answer in the hope it is the correct one - mixture of PAYE and self-employed. 
Unfortunately, I am owed money from an unpaid invoice... and a bit of unfortunate events and idiocy... and I will have to come to an agreement with them and pay it off in rates. But I am pleased that I got it in on time, at least.


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## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2018)

What I find annoying is that the paper return boxes don't exactly match the online boxes, so when I worked using the paper one as a template, I was extremely confused. Eventually used a system of trial and error to figure it out. 

Just done mine and paid tax bill. 

Also, they have stopped taking personal credit cards but still accept corporate ones for tax bill payments.


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## bimble (Jan 27, 2018)




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## Vintage Paw (Jan 27, 2018)

I'm going to do mine tomorrow. It shouldn't take long as I earn fuck all. I know it was relatively painless last year (my first year), and I know I put my details in a 'safe place' so I'm hopeful there won't be any tears.


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## wayward bob (Jan 28, 2018)

my tax return is 9% complete  expenditure pretty much done, cash income is written in a book across town that i'll go and fetch tomorrow. are we running a competition for the most-last-minute submission?


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## Vintage Paw (Jan 28, 2018)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm going to do mine tomorrow. It shouldn't take long as I earn fuck all. I know it was relatively painless last year (my first year), and I know I put my details in a 'safe place' so I'm hopeful there won't be any tears.



I have a very specific system for carefully cataloguing all the various bits of information I might need in any given situation, which involves a series of small notebooks that I scrawl in when needed. I knew the information was in one of them. But which one? The last one. Always the last one.


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## stuff_it (Jan 29, 2018)

Yes get in. Filed earlier.


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## editor (Jan 29, 2018)

Starting tomorrow


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## equationgirl (Jan 29, 2018)

editor said:


> Starting tomorrow


Come on! You can do it!


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## wayward bob (Jan 29, 2018)

editor said:


> Starting tomorrow


is that tomorrow-today or tomorrow-tomorrow? 

i'm not walking across town today as i have a sick kid, so that'll be tomorrow-tomorrow...


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2018)




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## RubyToogood (Jan 30, 2018)

Seriously? You do all the calculations and the bloody thing can't even just take you to a checkout where the amount to pay is already filled in????

Weeks of work and worry and I owe the fuckers £61.75. That's going to save the NHS yeah.

On the plus side whilst frantically hunting for old bank statements I found a voucher for an online knitting shop that I thought was lost forever! So I've now bought a swift (thing for winding yarn).

And I have signed up to be a research participant for the Gov Digital Service when they get round to making HMRC online actually usable. Thank me next year.


----------



## RubyToogood (Jan 30, 2018)

Also on the plus side I'm now properly registered as self-employed and it holds no fear, so I can look for extra bits and bobs of work without worrying about it.


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## lazythursday (Jan 30, 2018)

RubyToogood said:


> Seriously? You do all the calculations and the bloody thing can't even just take you to a checkout where the amount to pay is already filled in????


You think that's bad? A couple of years ago if you wanted to pay it online you had to go to a completely separate thing called 'BillPay' that had its own entirely different complicated login process. That was usually when I started actually screaming.


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## wayward bob (Jan 30, 2018)

today i have 2 sick kids  but i called in babysitting so i've retrieved my numbers. writing them down and adding them up next  glad i had a trial run last year with only half a year's numbers. iirc the rest is downhill. famous last words.


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## Vintage Paw (Jan 30, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> You think that's bad? A couple of years ago if you wanted to pay it online you had to go to a completely separate thing called 'BillPay' that had its own entirely different complicated login process. That was usually when I started actually screaming.



Even now though the bits of the website look so drastically different and you sit there worrying you're in the wrong place and doing the wrong thing. My return isn't at all complicated and all I had to pay was NI, but it's still a nerve-wracking experience.

On another note, last year I gave him indoors 10% of my allowance, and realised he never told them when he changed his name when we got married, so his NI number and name don't match their records, so I had to put his old name down, and said "you must remember to change that."

Same again this year


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## RubyToogood (Jan 30, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> You think that's bad? A couple of years ago if you wanted to pay it online you had to go to a completely separate thing called 'BillPay' that had its own entirely different complicated login process. That was usually when I started actually screaming.


Yes I was particularly thrilled by the bit where it asked me about my PAYE earnings and I was able to look them up on a different area of the same website and enter them manually...


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## crossthebreeze (Jan 30, 2018)

RubyToogood said:


> Yes I was particularly thrilled by the bit where it asked me about my PAYE earnings and I was able to look them up on a different area of the same website and enter them manually...


I've been Impressed in the past, when I've had to phone HMRC to tell them my "actual earnings" figures for self employment profit that I had already put in my tax return (which I'd filed early).


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## editor (Jan 30, 2018)

I'm close to finishing which equals pints tonight, if successful. I think I've fucked up my NI payments though. They used to be taken from my bank account automatically and then they stopped. I ticked some box that seemed to say "yes I'll pay for the NI payments" but in my haste to forget the whole experience I may have got it wrong.


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## lazythursday (Jan 30, 2018)

I think you pay all the NI via the tax return now. The regular payments have stopped.

I didn't pay mine for years and spent months trying to get HMRC to just tell me how much I owed so I could pay it off, as the letters only ever had the latest bit owed on them. Impossible. Had to wait for them to put a debt collection agency on it in order to get a bloody figure out of them.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 30, 2018)

Bricking myself today because I couldn't work out how to fill out a return for some extra freelance earnings now that I'm PAYE, and was suddenly convinced I'd had to re-register last October (and didn't). In fact you don't have to, it's just really obscure as to how to start the return. Nice UI work there HMRC.

Thankfully I have now managed to contribute the cost of around 60% of a duck island to the public coffers.


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## editor (Jan 30, 2018)

Yeah baby!


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## RubyToogood (Jan 31, 2018)

Hands up who is saying "next year I will start earlier"? Hahahahaha.....


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## wayward bob (Jan 31, 2018)

done. last in?


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## mx wcfc (Jan 31, 2018)

wayward bob said:


> done. last in?


I'm in but I doubt you will be the last. Finally sent it in last night. I did it early Jan. Couldn't figure out why I was getting a big repayment so dithered about pressing the button. Remembered something. Added that it. Still got a few quid back but not as much as before. Bugger.


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## Sue (Jan 31, 2018)

My friend is still working on hers as are all her friends. (((Actors)))


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## ricbake (Feb 1, 2018)

Wasn't completely confident I got it right and I do seem to have to pay more than I thought I should, so pressed send rather than pay more in penalties.....


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## Schmetterling (Feb 1, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Wasn't completely confident I got it right and I do seem to have to pay more than I thought I should, so pressed send rather than pay more in penalties.....



That’s ok as you can go back and amend it.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2018)

I've resolved to try and get some sort of basic accounting software and chip away at it throughout the year so I don't end up in another last minute frenzy of calculations on paper.

But then I say that every year...


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## cupid_stunt (Feb 1, 2018)

editor said:


> I've resolved to try and get some sort of basic accounting software and chip away at it throughout the year so I don't end up in another last minute frenzy of calculations on paper.
> 
> But then I say that every year...



Not sure what you consider 'basic accounting software', nor do I know how complex your situation, so what I use may be more than you need, and too costly, but I fucking love xero, makes life so easy!

Pricing Plans for Small Business Accounting | Xero


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## editor (Feb 1, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Not sure what you consider 'basic accounting software', nor do I know how complex your situation, so what I use may be more than you need, and too costly, but I fucking love xero, makes life so easy!
> 
> Pricing Plans for Small Business Accounting | Xero


£120 a year is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much for my humble needs.


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## cupid_stunt (Feb 1, 2018)

editor said:


> £120 a year is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much for my humble needs.



Fair enough, I only went for it when I had to go VAT registered, at £20 pm for me it saves loads of time, so makes it well worthwhile.


----------



## salem (Feb 1, 2018)

Quickbooks is £6/month (£2/month for the first 6 months) or Wave accounting is free.

The former is built with UK tax etc in mind where as wave is for more generic invoicing and book keeping.


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## RubyToogood (Feb 2, 2018)

I've now discovered that what I've declared as my savings interest was not quite right by about £20s worth of tax (I panicked and requested a statement from the bank, which now it's turned up is calculated on a slightly different basis from the bits of paper I managed to scrape together at the 11th hour). I thought you were supposed to be able to amend a tax return and the help files agree, but the system won't actually let me in. Should I give up and not bother?


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2018)

salem said:


> Quickbooks is £6/month (£2/month for the first 6 months) or Wave accounting is free.
> 
> The former is built with UK tax etc in mind where as wave is for more generic invoicing and book keeping.


That's still more than I want to pay. My needs really are basic as I earn fuck all. There's some decent looking Android apps I'll look into.


----------



## bemused (Feb 2, 2018)

RubyToogood said:


> I've now discovered that what I've declared as my savings interest was not quite right by about £20s worth of tax (I panicked and requested a statement from the bank, which now it's turned up is calculated on a slightly different basis from the bits of paper I managed to scrape together at the 11th hour). I thought you were supposed to be able to amend a tax return and the help files agree, but the system won't actually let me in. Should I give up and not bother?



You can't amend it now the filing date has pasted.


----------



## Schmetterling (Feb 2, 2018)

Self Assessment tax returns: If you need to change your return - GOV.UK


----------



## Leafster (Feb 2, 2018)

editor said:


> That's still more than I want to pay. My needs really are basic as I earn fuck all. There's some decent looking Android apps I'll look into.


Many of my smaller clients with very straightforward affairs keep simple spreadsheets analysing their bank and cash transactions and sometimes listing their sales invoices. They could (and some do) download the csv files from their online banking as a starting point for their bank analyses. 

Things may change with HMRC's MTD (Making Tax Digital) as they expect taxpayers to be using software to prepare the data for submission but the implementation of MTD keeps getting delayed so who knows when that's likely to happen. It also appears there may be "free" software when the times comes.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 2, 2018)

my mum told me about this, might be of interest...

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle...ate-self-assessment-tax-headache-freelancers/


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2018)

wayward bob said:


> my mum told me about this, might be of interest...
> 
> https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle...ate-self-assessment-tax-headache-freelancers/


Hmm. Not sure I want to start shifting bank accounts.... Ah there's no Android app, so it's a no.


----------



## Leafster (Feb 5, 2018)

I have a client with an unusual benefit/pension from the state. Every fucking year HMRC send her a Tax Calculation (dated before 31st January but always received in February) saying they have changed the entries on her Tax Return when they haven't! And every fucking year she phones me up panicking as this statement seems to say she hasn't paid the right amount of tax when she has! 

If any of you get an SA302 Tax Calculation please read it carefully and then look at your online account before panicking. The entry that says what is due by 31st January DOES NOT include any payments you might have made.

End of rant.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 9, 2018)

I've nailed it - 2017/18 accounts just gone to the accountants, I've never been this early!


----------



## Leafster (Apr 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I've nailed it - 2017/18 accounts just gone to the accountants, I've never been this early!


This time last year, I'd already submitted two Tax Returns for clients who needed SA302 equivalents for loans. 

This year, there's less pressure but I still need to get at least one out of the way before the end of the month as the client will be due a much-needed refund.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 11, 2018)

RubyToogood said:


> I've now discovered that what I've declared as my savings interest was not quite right by about £20s worth of tax (I panicked and requested a statement from the bank, which now it's turned up is calculated on a slightly different basis from the bits of paper I managed to scrape together at the 11th hour). I thought you were supposed to be able to amend a tax return and the help files agree, but the system won't actually let me in. Should I give up and not bother?


Didn't realise this thread was still going, sorry.

If you filed online around 31-1-18 your itr (tax return) wouldn't have been logged by 2-2-18 so couldn't be amended.  After a week it should be fine.

You can call 0300 200 3310 and they will amend it for you if you ask nice.

Don't ever worry about £20.  We have buffers.  I'm not telling you what they are obviously but it's not £20


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 11, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I've nailed it - 2017/18 accounts just gone to the accountants, I've never been this early!


Brilliant.  Now call 0300 322 7823 and set up a monthly direct debit over the next 8 or 9 months and you won't have a big bill just after xmas next year 

(I'd suggest putting the money away yourself but apparently very few people in the UK are capable of that.)


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 11, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Brilliant.  Now call 0300 322 7823 and set up a monthly direct debit over the next 8 or 9 months and you won't have a big bill just after xmas next year
> 
> (I'd suggest putting the money away yourself but apparently very few people in the UK are capable of that.)



It's sitting in various accounts earning 2 - 3%, and it's staying there until the last moment.


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 14, 2019)

just me this year then?


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 14, 2019)

Did mine last year. Didn't take long as I hadn't done much freelance work in 17-18. Everything was covered with my PAYE tax so it came back with a bill of £0.

Just logged on to double check I don't have to do anything and apparently I now owe them £7.60


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 14, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> Did mine last year. Didn't take long as I hadn't done much freelance work in 17-18. Everything was covered with my PAYE tax so it came back with a bill of £0.
> 
> Just logged on to double check I don't have to do anything and apparently I now owe them £7.60


You won't hear about this from the revenue as it's well below the amounts we would pursue. (Unless it's a penalty)

The online systems are stressed this month, more people use them every year.  If it's slow at updating try using it after 5.30 pm (when most of the accountants have stopped work for the day).

Remember 0300 200 3600 is the number for anyone having online issues (again...best after 5.30pm).


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 14, 2019)

DexterTCN said:


> You won't hear about this from the revenue as it's well below the amounts we would pursue. (Unless it's a penalty)


I've paid it. It didn't exactly break the bank


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 14, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> I've paid it. It didn't exactly break the bank


/puts baseball bat back in drawer


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 14, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> Did mine last year.


i did mine last year but apparently i have to do it again this year


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 14, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> i did mine last year but apparently i have to do it again this year



That's why it's called a tax _return_. Just when you thought it was safe to go back into January...


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2019)

Oh God. It's that time of year again.

*gloom descends


----------



## pesh (Jan 15, 2019)

boom. nailed it.
*euphoria rises


----------



## Tooter (Jan 15, 2019)

I've done most of the legwork and paperwork and worked everything out ......I now seem to be rather too relaxed about entering it into the HMRC website...I should be checking with an actual accountant to see if I should be making any more deductions but Its looking like I'll be paying double the tax I paid last year for earning 5k more  

Procrastination jobs running low...send help.  Even my sock drawer has been sorted.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jan 15, 2019)

Was late last year, had to pony up the £100 fine in addition to what I owed.
Going to be well under the threshold this year  so should only take a few hours 
Need to remember that there will still be NI contributions, that always gets me 

*looks a bank balance*


----------



## 19sixtysix (Jan 15, 2019)

Fuck that was painful. Trying to do tax return with paperwork from the year I moved house and job in 3 months flat. Lots of paperwork now sorted so hopefully next year won't be so bad.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 15, 2019)

pinkychukkles said:


> Was late last year, had to pony up the £100 fine in addition to what I owed.
> Going to be well under the threshold this year  so should only take a few hours
> Need to remember that there will still be NI contributions, that always gets me
> 
> *looks a bank balance*


Your class 2 payment is too low to incur any late payment penalties, just interest (3.25% a year I think) from 1st Feb and it's extremely likely that you'd have until the end of March (AT LEAST) before you even had an automated letter so you could pay it off in 3 bits and no-one would notice.

e2a you should not be charged % on C2 but it's moved onto the CESA computer system so fuck knows these days.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 17, 2019)

I put aside Monday to do my return, but then just hid in bed. Promised I do it Tuesday . . . Can't even remember what happened with that. Wednesday I actually sat down at the computer and turned it on. . . But then started experimenting with some music software and by 5pm the entire room was completely covered in wires and musical equipment. Oh time for dinner.

Today is the day!!


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 17, 2019)

I can hazily recall looking at the paperwork  last year and thinking it won't take much effort to complete. Not looked since. So its best left till next week now.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 17, 2019)

I opened a file. . . . have not logged in yet. 
Better make a start on dinner.


----------



## RubyToogood (Jan 17, 2019)

Huh. I finally summoned up the energy to log in, which took hours with tracking down old logins, and 86 factor authentication. So far the actual tax return has been suspiciously easy. The accounting system I set up last year has worked a treat.

Just a couple of trickier bits of info to hunt down. Like employers' pension contributions, they didn't ask that last year, wtf?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2019)

Right I'm heading downstairs in 20 minutes!!! Let's get it on.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2019)

Oh no, it all looks different, I don't like it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2019)

So class 2 National Insurance is paid in self assessment now?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2019)

"Your profits are the same or above the small profit threshold, select 'No' to '*Select Yes if you want to pay Class 2 NICs voluntarily*"

Select no to select yes?


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 18, 2019)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> "Your profits are the same or above the small profit threshold, select 'No' to '*Select Yes if you want to pay Class 2 NICs voluntarily*"
> 
> Select no to select yes?


Fuck's sake.

You can call 0300 200 3310 to get clarification.  I'm off today sorry.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 18, 2019)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> "Your profits are the same or above the small profit threshold, select 'No' to '*Select Yes if you want to pay Class 2 NICs voluntarily*"
> 
> Select no to select yes?



 That's nuts. 

Thank fuck my accountants file my return, all I need to do is login & pay.


----------



## Leafster (Jan 18, 2019)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> "Your profits are the same or above the small profit threshold, select 'No' to '*Select Yes if you want to pay Class 2 NICs voluntarily*"
> 
> Select no to select yes?



You had the same problem last year!  



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Here is a fun one - Firstly - Select No to Select Yes. Secondly, if it knows what it needs me to select then why ask me?
> I ticked yes because I thought it read like 'no' I didn't want to pay.
> 
> *ERROR: There is 1 error on this page.*
> Your profits are the same or above the small profit threshold, select 'No' to '*Select Yes if you want to pay Class 2 NICs voluntarily*'


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2019)

Leafster said:


> You had the same problem last year!


Oh jeez you have a better memory than me about me. 
Did seem a bit easier this year, but I fear change and didn't like the duplo look.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2019)

OK all done. Just need to pay now, and after last years payments on account that's thankfully only three grand for now.


----------



## Leafster (Jan 18, 2019)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh jeez you have a better memory than me about me.
> Did seem a bit easier this year, but I fear change and didn't like the duplo look.


Problems with HMRC's website stick out for me, being an accountant, as it's good to know what sort of problems clients (and others) might have if they do their Tax Returns themselves. Fortunately, I don't have to deal with the HMRC website for Tax Returns as I use software which uploads them from my PC. 

The good news is that you've done your Tax Return a week earlier than last year.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2019)

Leafster said:


> Problems with HMRC's website stick out for me, being an accountant, as it's good to know what sort of problems clients (and others) might have if they do their Tax Returns themselves. Fortunately, I don't have to deal with the HMRC website for Tax Returns as I use software which uploads them from my PC.
> 
> The good news is that you've done your Tax Return a week earlier than last year.


Yay. 

Better breakdowns and explanations of payments this year. Still some pointlessly over complicated questions that are actually quite easy when explained clearly. 

So many ways they could make this much easier. 
managing you account from previous returns looks like it might be a lot harder to find, (not that searched for it, just didn't see the option) as logging into my account only brought me to the current tax return I needed to fill in.


----------



## Leafster (Jan 18, 2019)

This might be of interest to some of you...

Self Assessment returns: unbelievable excuses and dubious expenses


----------



## 8115 (Jan 18, 2019)

Just trying to decide if I should do a tax return or wind up self employment, done nothing "freelance" (that's a very glamorous term for cash in hand or one off bits of service user involvement work) for a couple of years.

Think I'll wind up this year. If I need to do more freelance I will set up again.


----------



## Leafster (Jan 18, 2019)

8115 said:


> Just trying to decide if I should do a tax return or wind up self employment, done nothing "freelance" (that's a very glamorous term for cash in hand or one off bits of service user involvement work) for a couple of years.
> 
> Think I'll wind up this year. If I need to do more freelance I will set up again.


If you cease self-employment and that was the only reason you've had to do Tax Returns then in future years (where HMRC haven't issued Tax Returns) you may be able to take advantage of the new "Trading Allowance" introduced from 6th April 2018. Effectively, if you have trading receipts of less than £1,000 in a tax year you wouldn't need to prepare a Return just for that.

Tax-free allowances on property and trading income


----------



## 8115 (Jan 18, 2019)

Leafster said:


> If you cease self-employment and that was the only reason you've had to do Tax Returns then in future years (where HMRC haven't issued Tax Returns) you may be able to take advantage of the new "Trading Allowance" introduced from 6th April 2018. Effectively, if you have trading receipts of less than £1,000 in a tax year you wouldn't need to prepare a Return just for that.
> 
> Tax-free allowances on property and trading income


I do earn PAYE though.

Might chance it and not do it.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 18, 2019)




----------



## Leafster (Jan 18, 2019)

8115 said:


> I do earn PAYE though.
> 
> Might chance it and not do it.


If you've been notified that you need to do a Tax Return you should submit it even if your self-employed earnings are nil. You may be able to phone HMRC and explain that you're no longer self-employed (and haven't had any self-employed income for a couple of years) and don't believe you need to prepare a return for 2018. They may cancel the 2018 Return requirement if there are no other reasons for you to do a Return but they may not. If they won't cancel it, when you prepare your Return make sure you complete the entries to confirm that you have ceased self-employment. Then, if there are no other reasons for you to prepare a Tax Return you won't need to do one in future years. Having PAYE income doesn't necessarily mean you need to prepare a Return - the bulk of people who earn via PAYE do not prepare Tax Returns. 

Then, when you no longer receive a Tax Return and you receive casual earnings from self-employment below the £1,000 you won't need to re-register and start filling out Tax Returns again.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 18, 2019)

I'll phone them on Monday. I also need to ask them to send a copy of my p60 as my employer went online only and I never really worked out how to log in.


----------



## Leafster (Jan 18, 2019)

8115 said:


> I'll phone them on Monday. I also need to ask them to send a copy of my p60 as my employer went online only and I never really worked out how to log in.


HMRC's SA helpline (0300 200 3310) is open up to 8pm weeknights and from 8am to 4pm on Saturdays and 9am to 5pm on Sundays so you could phone them over the weekend, if you wanted to.

Does anyone ever *want* to call HMRC?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2019)

It used to be so easy to get through to them, even when it was busy, and they were always very helpful. . . . there are a couple of times when I could have justifiably been screwed by them, but they really cut me some slack. 
I wonder what it is like now with all the lay offs. Thank god they were still fully manned when I started being self employed, and didn't know what the hell I was doing.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 18, 2019)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It used to be so easy to get through to them, even when it was busy, and they were always very helpful. . . . there are a couple of times when I could have justifiably been screwed by them, but they really cut me some slack.
> I wonder what it is like now with all the lay offs. Thank god they were still fully manned when I started being self employed, and didn't know what the hell I was doing.


The cuts have been massive and are ongoing.  I most likely won't have a job in 6 months.   Better than being in the DWP though


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 19, 2019)

have acquired my P45

<checks the employment box on the first screen>
next up username and password


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 24, 2019)

HMRC: Worst tax return excuses


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> HMRC: Worst tax return excuses


I'm quite lucky. I probably could legitimately claim for a TV, soundbar, and a music subscription. 

I don't though. 

Plus, wouldn't that have to audit you to find out what you are claiming for? Tax returns are one figure in, one figure out. . . just keep your own records.


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2019)

Aaaargh!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2019)

editor said:


> Aaaargh!


Not done it yet?


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 24, 2019)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm quite lucky. I probably could legitimately claim for a TV, soundbar, and a music subscription.
> 
> I don't though.
> 
> Plus, wouldn't that have to audit you to find out what you are claiming for? Tax returns are one figure in, one figure out. . . just keep your own records.



You can opt to itemise your expenses - they might at least spot an unusually high capital expenditure, even if they don't know what it's for without investigating.


----------



## nick (Jan 25, 2019)

It's all input but not yet submitted. Will sit on it until after the weekend before a last review and pressing the magic button. Gives me a chance to think of anything missed (either income or allowances).
Also delaying for solidarity with Mrs Nick who has got as far as obtaining her P60 but not actually logged on yet (and she is a CFO)


----------



## ringo (Jan 25, 2019)

Never done this before. Just registered, no idea what I'm doing


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2019)

Not. Even. Started.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 25, 2019)

Yeah... I know I said last week I'd do it on monday, well I didn't. But I have now logged on and got the figures (and the anxiety). Still a few days though.

Also, the fine is always for failing to submit, so even if you log on and say provisional figures or estimate then at least the £100 fine is avoided.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 25, 2019)

Did it on Monday, it was really easy. I rung them up a couple of times, but you tell them what you want in one of those automatic voice recognition things and it tells you what to search for on the website, so I never actually had to speak to anyone. Unfortunately had to ring Student Loans and now they have my new address.


----------



## r0bb0 (Jan 27, 2019)

Done most of the figures now, going to wait a few days before submitting ...


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 27, 2019)

bumping for next week  kid home with migraines and tax returns do. not. mix. chez bob...

<my dad would be sooooooo proud>


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2019)

Did mine at lunch time today, finally. I note they have changed the form again, which is annoying because it takes ages to work out where things should go. 

Anyway, done for another year at least...


----------



## RubyToogood (Jan 27, 2019)

All done


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 28, 2019)

Done at last. Their website doesn't inspire confidence imho.


----------



## marshall (Jan 28, 2019)

Respect to everyone who does it themselves, just can't face it, my mind goes blank, heart races just thinking about it.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 28, 2019)

The call waiting time is currently 50+ minutes.  Don't even think about phoning until at least 6pm if you have any questions because there's 1000 people in front of you in the queue.  Try the online webchat for general queries.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 28, 2019)

Is that the 55p a min line.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 28, 2019)

Done a while ago, but paid it today.


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2019)

Still thinking about it. 
Panic slowly setting in.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 28, 2019)

Then spent eons waiting on the phone to tax credits who have totally fucked up my claim and massively overpaid me (not my fault) and still aren't sorting it out.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 28, 2019)

Chilli.s said:


> Is that the 55p a min line.


No, 0300 numbers count as local rate afaik so should be free with most mobile contracts.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 28, 2019)

editor said:


> Still thinking about it.
> Panic slowly setting in.


Come on, you can do it! You just need to log onto the system to start with, can you do that?


----------



## RubyToogood (Jan 28, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Come on, you can do it! You just need to log onto the system to start with, can you do that?


Nobody can do that. It's the hardest part.


----------



## Tooter (Jan 28, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Come on, you can do it! You just need to log onto the system to start with, can you do that?



Christ...I logged on today and it's all changed AGAIN. It used to be such a simple affair and now it's massively overcomplicated IMO.

Every year it gets harder and harder to do a simple return.   FFS .....


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 28, 2019)

Tooter said:


> Christ...I logged on today and it's all changed AGAIN. It udsed to be such a simple affair and now it's massively overcomplicated IMO.
> 
> Every year it gets harder and harder to do a simple return.   FFS .....


That's how I feel, every year the format changes, and the language - its a nightmare trying to figure out what goes where.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2019)

Why thank you, my long serving calculator that only gets pulled out at this time of the year. You couldn't have designed a better time to start going freaking haywire on me


----------



## Judelo (Jan 29, 2019)

First time I had to do it was last year. Fucking pain right up the fucking cunty hole, including several phone calls and being given conflicting information which was not always accurate or totally helpful, and sometimes patronising of me not being able to understand their "simple" system. Once finally at the point of actually being able to submit the figures though, it was actually quick and simple.

Was inevitably late though so got fined, but as had paid no income tax since 1992 didn't mind in effect paying a bit. This year though not so eager. Still lunching it out till last minute tho (as is my way with most things..). Only just read this page of this thread, and its making me think maybe should attempt it some time BEFORE 11pm on Thursday..

As my mate said when I told him it took about half an hour (forgot about the grief before that; and maybe it was more like an hour), he said think of it as getting paid £100 for half an hour's work if I avoid the fine. That's quite good motivation.


----------



## Judelo (Jan 29, 2019)

They keep sending me texts saying "Your tax return is due. Please make sure you do it on time this year."

Cheers, I suppose..

I did wonder last year if they made it so difficult so as to get the £100 fine off everyone..


----------



## Judelo (Jan 29, 2019)

By the way quite relieved (if saddened) to hear it wasn't just me..


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 29, 2019)

That £100 fine will turn into £1600 if you're not careful.


----------



## Judelo (Jan 29, 2019)

Did turn into £110.

It stays at that initial ton for three months then starts going up a tenner a day. I managed to not quite get it in by midnight on 30th April


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 29, 2019)

That's why we sent you the texts, don't say we don't care


----------



## Judelo (Jan 29, 2019)

Aw..

You got 110 out of me, so that's good to know you're satisfied with that


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 29, 2019)

Judelo said:


> Aw..
> 
> You got 110 out of me, so that's good to know you're satisfied with that


I don't want anything mate, I cancelled more than £400k of those penalties last year until I got pulled up for it.


----------



## Judelo (Jan 29, 2019)

X

Just to clarify, by "you" I did mean your 'organisation'.

X again, you're one of the stars


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 29, 2019)

DexterTCN said:


> I don't want anything mate, I cancelled more than £400k of those penalties last year until I got pulled up for it.


Admirable, well done. Love your work! (and your helpful posts)


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 29, 2019)

Aw shucks 

Thanks


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 29, 2019)

but it says optional 

eta: heh i just googled and this thread is the second result


----------



## 8115 (Jan 29, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> View attachment 160283  but it says optional


Must be greater than zero or blank ie not 0.


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 29, 2019)

oh yeh


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 29, 2019)

Mine is duly submitted this morning. Cutting it finer than I’d normally like but at least it’s done.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 29, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Mine is duly submitted this morning. Cutting it finer than I’d normally like but at least it’s done.


I always do mine in late January. Every year I think I must try to do it sooner, and every year I forget.


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 29, 2019)

i just phoned my mother


----------



## Tooter (Jan 29, 2019)

I think I've done it... not submitted it yet though. Wasn't expecting the additional class 4 National insurance payment too....luckily I have been strictly putting money away with every payment. So glad I did that  

It would be really nice to show all my income/expenditure breakdown and calculation summary to an accountant just to confirm all is well and see if I may have missed anything.	Called an accountant today but understandingly they are mental busy and never called me back 

Almost smiling


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2019)

I'm slowly getting there, thanks to my shiny new calculator.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 30, 2019)

Paid the self assessment, had put it aside in a separate account, there is now £18 left in there 

Still, done my bit, and all that.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 30, 2019)

Tooter said:


> I think I've done it... not submitted it yet though. Wasn't expecting the additional class 4 National insurance payment too....luckily I have been strictly putting money away with every payment. So glad I did that
> 
> It would be really nice to show all my income/expenditure breakdown and calculation summary to an accountant just to confirm all is well and see if I may have missed anything.	Called an accountant today but understandingly they are mental busy and never called me back
> 
> Almost smiling


You can amend your itr up to a year after submitting it.

HMRC has a youtube channel and at gov.uk there is webchat option where you can quiz them (they may have to escalate it and get a tier 2 response) about stuff.

There are also non-hmrc videos on tax returns/self employment etc. which can be easily searched on youtube.  Reddit can also be enlightening.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 31, 2019)

editor said:


> I'm slowly getting there, thanks to my shiny new calculator.


Are you done yet?


----------



## Leafster (Jan 31, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Are you done yet?


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 31, 2019)

still going through bank statements here


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 31, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> still going through bank statements here


GET OFF URBAN!


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 31, 2019)

NO


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 31, 2019)

Well, I’m not chipping into the crowdfunder for your fine.

(Probably would, tbf).


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 31, 2019)

will get it in by deadline  i've got virtually nothing to report for the year...


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 31, 2019)

done \o/

(eta: submitted exactly one hour later than last year )


----------



## prunus (Jan 31, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> done \o/
> 
> (eta: submitted exactly one hour later than last year )



One year and one hour surely...? 

<runs away>


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 31, 2019)

<refuses to take "one last look" over anything>


----------



## Tooter (Jan 31, 2019)

Done and paid. Phew...


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jan 31, 2019)

Done & paid; was fairly quick because I've earned such a pitiful amount .


----------



## r0bb0 (Jan 31, 2019)

Paid some last minute cash into the account today and just submitted.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 31, 2019)

If I owe £1.80 and I don't pay it, will I get fined £100? I seemed to owe a tiny bit and I can't remember if I paid it.


----------



## Judelo (Feb 1, 2019)

Well, only two minutes twenty five and a half seconds late. That is quite good going by my standards. I'm definitely appealling this time though if they fine, on the grounds it logged me out while checking the figures (and getting slightly confused about dates)..

Was actually sraight forward logging in, but i had the gateway ID written down from last year (and it worked!)

Well done all btw


----------



## Leafster (Feb 1, 2019)

8115 said:


> If I owe £1.80 and I don't pay it, will I get fined £100? I seemed to owe a tiny bit and I can't remember if I paid it.


So long as your Return was in by the deadline you won’t get a fine. HMRC won’t chase you for non-payment of £1.80. It’ll just sit on your account.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 1, 2019)

8115 said:


> If I owe £1.80 and I don't pay it, will I get fined £100? I seemed to owe a tiny bit and I can't remember if I paid it.


The £100 is for late filing not late payment.

Late payment penalties are applied to any outstanding tax over £800.  Late payment penalties are 5% (of any tax not poas) still outstanding after 30 days, then 5% again after 6 months and then again after 12 months.  Although we'll have caught you before that 

We will not contact you for £1.80 as it costs £2.50 for us to process a payment. You will not have any financial penalties although you _may _get interest charged at 3.25% a year.

Just add it to your next bill if you get one.

edited to clarify there are no late payment penalties for poas, only tax.  For poas we only require your firstborn.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 2, 2019)

Filed my return ages ago. Forgot to pay my tax. Just realised it was overdue


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 2, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Filed my return ages ago. Forgot to pay my tax. Just realised it was overdue


Oops. Have you paid it now?


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 2, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Oops. Have you paid it now?



Nah, fuck em


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 26, 2019)

Did you get a late payment letter this week or have you forgotten to pay your tax?

Call us by Friday or the penalties and escalations start next week.  Avoidable penalties are burning money, your money.  Arrangements can be made to help.

Have a nice day


----------



## bemused (Feb 26, 2019)

I got a £27 refund this year .... woohoo the tide is turning


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 4, 2019)

The subject line of their circular email today - 'This record collection is a must' - has really failed to amuse me or endear them to me or make me think they're really cool as they presumably hoped it would.


----------



## Sue (Mar 4, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> The subject line of their circular email today - 'This record collection is a must' - has really failed to amuse me or endear them to me or make me think they're really cool as they presumably hoped it would.


You get a circular email from HMRC?  I don't and now feel cheated.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 4, 2019)

Sue said:


> You get a circular email from HMRC?  I don't and now feel cheated.



Don't: feel fortunate.

(I've probably just failed at some point to tick a box marked 'please do not hassle my inbox with tedious videos about how not to defraud the government')


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 4, 2019)

Doesn't sound like us.  I wouldn't be clicking on any links in it.


----------



## zora (Mar 4, 2019)

No, I have been getting them as well since submitting my last tax return at the end of Jan, and had been wondering if there were just general tipps or if they were hinting that I had done something wrong...
There are loads of them as well, almost one a week I'd say. They do look legit.


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 4, 2019)

I'd like to see a screenshot if possible, blank out everything personal though.


----------



## zora (Mar 4, 2019)

It's this kind of stuff, as per their website, with links to the HMRC YouTube channel (what fun! - having said that, sarcastically, some of it looks quite useful, I might watch some!) and to webinars. The email address is the one mentioned in the paragraph below:

*"1.29 Help and support emails*
HMRC will periodically send emails to customers to support their business life events. The emails will sometimes include links to relevant online digital education products, used to offer you help in relation to your business and the email will appear in your address bar as: no.reply@advice.hmrc.gov.uk.

These emails will never ask you to provide personal or financial information.

All emails issued from this address, are sent via Granicus (GovDelivery) our trusted email service provider."


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 4, 2019)

I get these random e-mails from HMRC with various advice, I am surprised DexterTCN isn't aware of these being sent out.


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 4, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I get these random e-mails from HMRC with various advice, I am surprised DexterTCN isn't aware of these being sent out.


No official communication comes out from HMRC by email (apart from payment acknowledgements if requested) as far as I'm aware...that stuff you're getting is just pr crap (as in it does not include or ask you for _details, _they're just advertising services).  

I was more concerned about phishing because it's rife and any mention of emails these days pricks up our ears.

If you log into your gateway account and call 0300 200 3600 they should be able to navigate you to getting rid of them.

And cupid_stunt is correct, I don't know everything about the revenue.  I have only done tax credits helpline, tc renewals, child benefit, online helpdesk, sa helpline, paye and sa debt recovery, refunds, appeals and answering letters.   I'm frontline on those.  

Certain things I can help with, a lot I can't but I can generally find out anything I don't know off the top of my head quite quickly.

And I'm leaving in a few months.


----------



## Chilli.s (Mar 6, 2019)

I'v had a few unsolicited emails purporting to be from hmrc too. They have only just started this year but I'd say one a week. No way am I clicking links in anything I haven't asked for no matter how legit it looks.


----------



## zora (Jan 6, 2020)

Does anyone know the answer to this?
For the last couple of years I have had to do a tax return for income from self-employment in addition to my PAYE. This year, and in all likelihood next year, I have nothing aside from my PAYE to declare. Longterm my plan involves more self-employment, so in a couple of years time I expect to have to do a tax return again.

Do I just not need to do anything? Or do I need to inform HMRC somehow? Or do I need to do a tax return and just fill in my PAYE income? Basically, ideally I would like there to be a sort of "nothing to declare" button to press, so it doesn't look like I have just forgotten or am just not doing it, and of course I would like to have as little time to spend on the whole thing as possible.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 6, 2020)

zora said:


> Does anyone know the answer to this?
> For the last couple of years I have had to do a tax return for income from self-employment in addition to my PAYE. This year, and in all likelihood next year, I have nothing aside from my PAYE to declare. Longterm my plan involves more self-employment, so in a couple of years time I expect to have to do a tax return again.
> 
> Do I just not need to do anything? Or do I need to inform HMRC somehow? Or do I need to do a tax return and just fill in my PAYE income? Basically, ideally I would like there to be a sort of "nothing to declare" button to press, so it doesn't look like I have just forgotten or am just not doing it, and of course I would like to have as little time to spend on the whole thing as possible.


File a nil return, easiest option.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 6, 2020)

zora said:


> Does anyone know the answer to this?
> For the last couple of years I have had to do a tax return for income from self-employment in addition to my PAYE. This year, and in all likelihood next year, I have nothing aside from my PAYE to declare. Longterm my plan involves more self-employment, so in a couple of years time I expect to have to do a tax return again.
> 
> Do I just not need to do anything? Or do I need to inform HMRC somehow? Or do I need to do a tax return and just fill in my PAYE income? Basically, ideally I would like there to be a sort of "nothing to declare" button to press, so it doesn't look like I have just forgotten or am just not doing it, and of course I would like to have as little time to spend on the whole thing as possible.


I had a mate in a similar situation. He continued for a couple of years until they told him not to bother.


----------



## iamwithnail (Jan 6, 2020)

This is my first year going on to payment on account, what a ballache that is, tax bill from this year and 50% of next year's at the end of the month.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jan 6, 2020)

zora said:


> Does anyone know the answer to this?
> For the last couple of years I have had to do a tax return for income from self-employment in addition to my PAYE. This year, and in all likelihood next year, I have nothing aside from my PAYE to declare. Longterm my plan involves more self-employment, so in a couple of years time I expect to have to do a tax return again.
> 
> Do I just not need to do anything? Or do I need to inform HMRC somehow? Or do I need to do a tax return and just fill in my PAYE income? Basically, ideally I would like there to be a sort of "nothing to declare" button to press, so it doesn't look like I have just forgotten or am just not doing it, and of course I would like to have as little time to spend on the whole thing as possible.


Just put your PAYE income in.  Declare your self employed income as Nil for y/e 5/4/19 (assuming that is the case), but if your plans are for future s/emp income just keep filing.  imho.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2020)

iamwithnail said:


> This is my first year going on to payment on account, what a ballache that is, tax bill from this year and 50% of next year's at the end of the month.


Feels better next year when you have already paid your tax bill . . . . .oh, apart from the new payments on account.


----------



## zora (Jan 7, 2020)

Thanks for the input, all!


----------



## AnnaKarpik (Jan 7, 2020)

zora said:


> Does anyone know the answer to this?
> For the last couple of years I have had to do a tax return for income from self-employment in addition to my PAYE. This year, and in all likelihood next year, I have nothing aside from my PAYE to declare. Longterm my plan involves more self-employment, so in a couple of years time I expect to have to do a tax return again.
> 
> Do I just not need to do anything? Or do I need to inform HMRC somehow? Or do I need to do a tax return and just fill in my PAYE income? Basically, ideally I would like there to be a sort of "nothing to declare" button to press, so it doesn't look like I have just forgotten or am just not doing it, and of course I would like to have as little time to spend on the whole thing as possible.







__





						Did you work for yourself between 6 April 2021 and 5 April 2022? - Check if you need to send a Self Assessment tax return - GOV.UK
					






					www.gov.uk
				



Get a screen shot of the checker's advice. Alternatively, the internet won't break if you do a return anyway with just PAYE info; you might get thrown off with the message you don't need to do a return. Get a screenshot of that too.

Warning; if anyone ever gets a letter asking for a return, regardless of earnings or any other circumstance, send in a return.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 7, 2020)

I got mine in April. Got asked for a series of payments over the year, the penalty for missing one being intrest applied. When I called and said that if I hadn't put it in till now I would pay no intrest, they said this was case. Seems a bit of an odd way to penalise people trying to be organised.

Hopefully this year I'm organised enough to get it in early and actually have the money to pay the dam thing straight away.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jan 7, 2020)

Solidarity, my accountant has just sent the dreaded sort your shit out email


----------



## Winot (Jan 7, 2020)

iamwithnail said:


> This is my first year going on to payment on account, what a ballache that is, tax bill from this year and 50% of next year's at the end of the month.



Word.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 7, 2020)

iamwithnail said:


> This is my first year going on to payment on account, what a ballache that is, tax bill from this year and 50% of next year's at the end of the month.



It's very 'housing benefit paid in arrears', isn't it. 'Hello, we are the national government of one of the world's largest economies. We are pro-business and entrepreneurialism. Could we just ask you random losers to pay us several thousand pounds on income that you aren't even sure you'll earn yet, because we're a bit short this year?'


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 7, 2020)

Well, I've submitted mine, after the traditional annual panic about some aspect of the form which I have literally no memory of how I dealt with last time round. This year it was whether payments from clients abroad count as 'foreign income' or not. (They don't, but the wording of the guidance note was slightly ambiguous and caused me a couple of hours of confusion.)


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jan 9, 2020)

bellaozzydog said:


> Solidarity, my accountant has just sent the dreaded sort your shit out email



Spent two days doing my taxes..............realised I’ve done next fucking years

on the upside I don’t need to do next years...down side, still got this years to untangle 

upside I paid a shit load of random wrong category tax last year so it should theoretically go against this years


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 9, 2020)

Suppose I should start to look at this...

                                                       ... on monday perhaps.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 9, 2020)

zora said:


> Thanks for the input, all!


Honestly, file a Nil return.  It'll end in tears if you don't.


----------



## Leafster (Jan 9, 2020)

Chilli.s said:


> Suppose I should start to look at this...
> 
> ... on monday perhaps.


Why the rush?


----------



## Tooter (Jan 13, 2020)

billy_bob said:


> Well, I've submitted mine, after the traditional annual panic about some aspect of the form which I have literally no memory of how I dealt with last time round. This year it was whether payments from clients abroad count as 'foreign income' or not. (They don't, but the wording of the guidance note was slightly ambiguous and caused me a couple of hours of confusion.)



This year it is wether or not I did it on cash basis last year or not 😆 and the usual 'you need to delete something before you submit this page and advance loop.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 19, 2020)

Well I've started one, but this time round I have to do two sets of employment as I changed role part way through the tax year, and I have a load of business expenses to include because of working away from home half the time.

Plus the national insurance people said I was due a refund and haven't written back yet.

So I'm doing it a bit at a time to try to reduce the pain.


----------



## iamwithnail (Jan 19, 2020)

Mines away and submitted, just waiting on the money transferring into my account with the card and I'll pay it tomorrow. Definitely the most I've ever spent on a card, by quite a long way.

I don't actually remember how I paid it last year. Bank transfer I guess, but it was only about £600. I have the fear when it's bigger sums that it'll disappear into the ether or I'll get the details wrong.


----------



## RubyToogood (Jan 20, 2020)

Ooh! I've just discovered the trading income allowance, which is basically £1000 allowance for general expenses if you're a chicken feed occasional freelancer like me. I would have skipped right over that in the form because I didn't know what it meant if I hadn't watched this video:


----------



## iamwithnail (Jan 20, 2020)

Paid most of mine today, had to split it because there's a daily card limit, apparently.  Nice problem to have though. Also 3 working days to reach HMRC's account?  That's shocking in this day and age. Glad I wasn't trying to do it at the last minute!


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 20, 2020)

Thanks for the reminder! I filed a couple of weeks ago and had forgotten that you then also have to pay them  I see from the thread it's not the first time I've done that either


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 20, 2020)

Done and paid, last tuesday in fact. showing a level of organisation that is unusual for me.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2020)

Still working on it...


----------



## iamwithnail (Jan 21, 2020)

All paid!  I'd like to steer that to more nurses and doctors, plz.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 26, 2020)

Question: I think I notified HMRC that I ceased all self employment a couple of years ago. However they have emailed me several times to say that I haven't done my tax return. Do they know something I don't or are they just making a mistake? I don't know what to do. I am 100% PAYE.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2020)

Busy cleaning every part of the house as much-needed 'preparation' for starting on the return :/


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2020)

8115 said:


> Question: I think I notified HMRC that I ceased all self employment a couple of years ago. However they have emailed me several times to say that I haven't done my tax return. Do they know something I don't or are they just making a mistake? I don't know what to do. I am 100% PAYE.


I would double-check with them. Or do a tax return based on your single income source.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2020)

Finished mine on Friday, and the system says I'm due a rebate as my expenses have gone up (I don't claim through work). 

Which is nice.


----------



## nick (Jan 26, 2020)

Done - but not yet submitted. 
Gonna stew on it next week to see if there are any beneficial amendments of which I haven't yet thought.

It is at this time of year I remember the brutality that is payments on account (1st world problem I know)


----------



## mx wcfc (Jan 26, 2020)

8115 said:


> Question: I think I notified HMRC that I ceased all self employment a couple of years ago. However they have emailed me several times to say that I haven't done my tax return. Do they know something I don't or are they just making a mistake? I don't know what to do. I am 100% PAYE.


as equation girl said.  You could spend a couple of hours on the phone trying to get through to them, or you could just copy your P60 details onto the tax return on line and submit it.  Do you get a P11D though?  (non-cash earnings like health insurance)


----------



## nick (Jan 26, 2020)

Not sure you even need to copy the P60 details. With RTI they have those details already. First thing when you start the return, the site gives you the details and asks you if they are correct.


Which is lucky as I don't have my P60 to hand


----------



## 8115 (Jan 26, 2020)

nick said:


> Not sure you even need to copy the P60 details. With RTI they have those details already. First thing when you start the return, the site gives you the details and asks you if they are correct.
> 
> 
> Which is lucky as I don't have my P60 to hand


Yeah I don't know where mine is. Could be in my emails as payslips are electronic now.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2020)

You might need your P60 8115 that said I think it said the information was optional this time when I did it. So you could just stick the name of your employer in and leave it at that.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 26, 2020)

Hands up anyone who thinks that showing a p60 for employee earnings proves to the revenue that you don't have any other income?  No, that doesn't work.  If you no longer meet the criteria to complete tax returns it's your job to notify them.  If you haven't notified them by 31-1 then you will most likely have to go through (and most likely lose) the late filing appeal process.  

Also - you can amend a tax return for up to a year after it's filed.  File first, refine later.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 5, 2021)

Annual bump for this annual fuckstorm now they're sending me increasingly urgent reminders.

Couldn't they cut us some slack just this one year?


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2021)

Oh God. This is coming up again


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 5, 2021)

This year I plan to complete this in a personal best time. I think my record stands at all morning or all afternoon. Hoping to get down to less than that. Naturally having fuck all turnover  will go some way to help.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jan 5, 2021)

bellaozzydog said:


> Spent two days doing my taxes..............realised I’ve done next fucking years
> 
> on the upside I don’t need to do next years...down side, still got this years to untangle
> 
> upside I paid a shit load of random wrong category tax last year so it should theoretically go against this years



if it helps I got two years ahead of myself last year to sort out a mortgage

next return 2022


----------



## iamwithnail (Jan 5, 2021)

I was prepped this year and submitted ages ago, but had to pay it this week, ouch. Still, I like having hospitals and schools, so it's all good.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 5, 2021)

iamwithnail said:


> I was prepped this year and submitted ages ago, but had to pay it this week, ouch. Still, I like having hospitals and schools, so it's all good.



It's certainly not the paying it I object to - it's the damned form, and remembering where all the information I need is. Can't they just trust me to send them an amount we'll agree is reasonable?


----------



## iamwithnail (Jan 5, 2021)

Yeah, i can feel that.  I might have to do my own return next year, which I'm not looking forward to, had an accountant the last few years but likely can't justify it in the future.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Jan 6, 2021)

Mine is done and filed.. it’s wonderful that HMRC still haven’t paid me the corporation tax rebate that I’m owed, we are now on the 3rd promised payment date and 3 months later than promised but I have to pay my tax and tax on account or get fined- fuckers! 
luckily I can afford to pay but imagine there are many who can’t


----------



## bimble (Jan 7, 2021)

Feeble fistbump. Why the duck do I leave it until January every single time, the most depressing time of year even without lockdowns & everything else.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 7, 2021)

Tell me about it.

It's only light outside between 11.07am and 1.33pm, the Celebrations are all gone, my family no longer smile indulgently if I begin drinking before noon, bob_jr's already cried in frustration twice at basically having to educate himself now and we're only on day 4.

What can I do to cheer myself up?

I know - I'll spend a day hunting for information about bank account interest and water rates that, for the seventh year in a row, I have still failed to keep in a sensible, easily accessible place. Then fill in a big form about it.


----------



## zora (Jan 14, 2021)

Q about gift aid, please? In the "tailor your return" section, I ticked the "have you given to charity?" box as yes. 
But of course I don't remember the bits and pieces I gave, other than a couple of standing orders I have, where I imagine I would have ticked the gift aid box. 
I didn't have any self-employed income, or certainly not above the £1000 threshold to declare. My tax paid through PAYE would be enough to cover any gift aid, and I don't expect anything back either. 
Does that mean that the question about charitable giving is irrelevant to me, and I should therefore tick no? Or do I put the figure of the standing orders I have? (And is this a new thing? I can't recall this from previous years?)


----------



## Leafster (Jan 14, 2021)

zora said:


> Q about gift aid, please? In the "tailor your return" section, I ticked the "have you given to charity?" box as yes.
> But of course I don't remember the bits and pieces I gave, other than a couple of standing orders I have, where I imagine I would have ticked the gift aid box.
> I didn't have any self-employed income, or certainly not above the £1000 threshold to declare. My tax paid through PAYE would be enough to cover any gift aid, and I don't expect anything back either.
> Does that mean that the question about charitable giving is irrelevant to me, and I should therefore tick no? Or do I put the figure of the standing orders I have? (And is this a new thing? I can't recall this from previous years?)


I always find this bit of the Tax Return a bit "messy" when I'm preparing them for clients. Just like you, they often give money to charities but a) they don't always keep detailed records of it, and b) don't always know if they agreed for the donations to be gift-aided. 

The two main reasons this section is on the Tax Return is to ensure that the giver has paid sufficient income tax to cover the amount recoverable by the charity and to give higher rate tax payers tax-relief at the higher rates. 

My approach has always been to identify the donations that have definitely been given with gift-aid and then only to include the total of those on the Return. So my advice to you is to only include the standing orders if you're sure you've agreed they are gift-aided and to ignore anything else. 

This section has been on the Return for many years but it's possible the way you are guided through the Return if you do it online has changed and it's now more visible.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 14, 2021)

this is the last fucking thing I want to have to do, even though all I need to do is just enter my PAYE details from when I was on PAYE, add in the 5 grand I earned the whole rest of the year, click send and they should actually _give me a load of money_ (since the PAYE was far too high)

even given that, I've put it off until this time


----------



## prunus (Jan 14, 2021)

zora said:


> Q about gift aid, please? In the "tailor your return" section, I ticked the "have you given to charity?" box as yes.
> But of course I don't remember the bits and pieces I gave, other than a couple of standing orders I have, where I imagine I would have ticked the gift aid box.
> I didn't have any self-employed income, or certainly not above the £1000 threshold to declare. My tax paid through PAYE would be enough to cover any gift aid, and I don't expect anything back either.
> Does that mean that the question about charitable giving is irrelevant to me, and I should therefore tick no? Or do I put the figure of the standing orders I have? (And is this a new thing? I can't recall this from previous years?)



If you don't have records of your gift aid giving you should leave the sections blank, ie say no to the did you give to charity section.  You already attested that you paid/will pay enough tax to cover the extra 25% when you made the donations.

If you do, and you earn enough to hit the higher rate then you can get tax relief on your gift aid donations.  If you don't reach the higher tax rate it is moot and it's easier to just say 'no' to the whole section.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 14, 2021)

I have made no progress on this whatsoever

Very happy to report


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 14, 2021)

That bit always throws me. I started a new section on my financial spreadsheet a couple of returns back and I now add details of anything as I go, except for odd fivers that go into collection buckets here and there which I always forget about..


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 14, 2021)

I've done fuck all too, Chilli.s. They'll get it last thing on the 29th if they're lucky.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 14, 2021)

zora said:


> Q about gift aid, please? In the "tailor your return" section, I ticked the "have you given to charity?" box as yes.
> But of course I don't remember the bits and pieces I gave, other than a couple of standing orders I have, where I imagine I would have ticked the gift aid box.
> I didn't have any self-employed income, or certainly not above the £1000 threshold to declare. My tax paid through PAYE would be enough to cover any gift aid, and I don't expect anything back either.
> Does that mean that the question about charitable giving is irrelevant to me, and I should therefore tick no? Or do I put the figure of the standing orders I have? (And is this a new thing? I can't recall this from previous years?)


This bit always bugs me and it's made me just start saying no I don't want to do gift aid, whenever I'm asked...so that I can just tick 'no' on the form and not fret about it any further.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jan 15, 2021)

I have actually filed a whole 16 days and 6 hours earlier than I normally do.
Well done me.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 15, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> I have actually filed a whole 16 days and 6 hours earlier than I normally do.
> Well done me.


Top work, a cash sideline as an accountant beckons?


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jan 15, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> Top work, a cash sideline as an accountant beckons?


I actuallly started doing book keeping for a members club last January but had to stop getting paid for it when I got voted in as director of the cooperative last September (no one on PAYE), now doing it on a pro bono basis.


----------



## prunus (Jan 15, 2021)

Done. Paid. Early.  Seems there are some benefits of lockdown after all.


----------



## Schmetterling (Jan 18, 2021)

Done 😊

How likely is it that they could have made a mistake? Apparently I had overpaid by just over £985. I can’t quite trust my luck.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2021)

Meant to start today, but didn't even get around to logging in. 
TOMORROW is the day . . . . again.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2021)

Bah, just logged on. They seem to have lost a load of my basic details. One of the nice things about it not being the first time is that you never have to fill in any of this shit unless it has changed. So far they have not even got my first and middle name . . . I imagine it continues throughout the form. Bummer.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 19, 2021)

Starting to get stomach-churning anxiety about how much I've already got to do before the end of the month without this bollocks


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2021)

Does anybody know where I can find the bit where I claim my home as my workplace and get a percentage of heating and electric and floorspace etc? I thought last year they did a new thing where you could just go for an easy lump sum if your home is where you are based instead of submitting loads of crap. I can't seem to see it this year.


----------



## Schmetterling (Jan 19, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Does anybody know where I can find the bit where I claim my home as my workplace and get a percentage of heating and electric and floorspace etc? I thought last year they did a new thing where you could just go for an easy lump sum if your home is where you are based instead of submitting loads of crap. I can't seem to see it this year.



I just include mine in the expenses section.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2021)

What the hell? There is supposed to be a 'simplified expenses' section according to an on line you tube clip (but it doesn't say where) and my form mentions I can't do the simplified expenses claim if I make make a similar claim elsewhere. . . . .except I can's see anywhere where it allows me to make the simplified claim for working from home. Where is it???


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2021)

Schmetterling said:


> I just include mine in the expenses section.


Yeah, but they said there was a simplified version where I didn't have to gather all my bills and work out a percentage based on my time at work and floorspace used . . . there is supposedly some lump sum as long as I type in hours worked.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2021)

Schmetterling said:


> I just include mine in the expenses section.


Or hang on . . . . do I just work out the flat rate on my own from some other part of the HMRC website and then add it to expenses? I assumed it was something in the form that was self calculating.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 19, 2021)

No, not self-calculating as far as I remember. I have a scrap of paper somewhere with the percentages of heating, water etc. I worked out it would be reasonable to charge for.


----------



## Schmetterling (Jan 19, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah, but they said there was a simplified version where I didn't have to gather all my bills and work out a percentage based on my time at work and floorspace used . . . there is supposedly some lump sum as long as I type in hours worked.




When I did my very first tax return for 16-17 I did a calculation on the simplified basis and one on the percentage basis; I realised that the sum on the percentage basis was higher than the sum on the simplified basis so, naturally, that’s what I do every year. I have a spreadsheet template that I use every year so that part of it is not that much work anymore.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2021)

Schmetterling said:


> When I did my very first tax return for 16-17 I did a calculation on the simplified basis and one on the percentage basis; I realised that the sum on the percentage basis was higher than the sum on the simplified basis so, naturally, that’s what I do every year. I have a spreadsheet template that I use every year so that part of it is not that much work anymore.


I thought it was newer than 16-17
Is the simplified basis detailed on the HMRC website anywhere?  I just work that out myself based on their calculations, keep a record of how I came to that calculation then add it as one big whole for all the expenses?


----------



## Schmetterling (Jan 19, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I thought it was newer than 16-17
> Is the simplified basis detailed on the HMRC website anywhere?  I just work that out myself based on their calculations, keep a record of how I came to that calculation then add it as one big whole for all the expenses?



Not if you did it reaaaaaaally late. Like, so late it was almost early again. 

Found this





						Simplified expenses if you're self-employed
					

Use a simpler calculation to work out income tax for your vehicle, home and business premises expenses




					www.gov.uk
				





ETA Yes to your last sentence.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2021)

Schmetterling said:


> Not if you did it reaaaaaaally late. Like, so late it was almost early again.
> 
> Found this
> 
> ...


Thanks that's fab. Never bothered with it before because before that period I never really worked at home ever, but the year before I got a garden office which is only used for work. Can't be arsed to work out the percentages for the small amount of hours I worked from home.

I wonder if sitting at home emailing people looking for work counts as working from home? . . . or doing taxes even.


----------



## Schmetterling (Jan 19, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Thanks that's fab. Never bothered with it before because before that period I never really worked at home ever, but the year before I got a garden office which is only used for work. Can't be arsed to work out the percentages for the small amount of hours I worked from home.
> 
> I wonder if sitting at home emailing people looking for work counts as working from home? . . . or doing taxes even.



Welcome. 

Not doing your tax, unfortunately, but trying to get business yes.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 19, 2021)

I've never filed my own tax return.  I've always paid someone to do it for me - but that is proving just too expensive now. How do I even start to register to do it myself?  I'm scared and no good at online forms.  Sorry to be an utter baby about this but the tax people scare me.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2021)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've never filed my own tax return.  I've always paid someone to do it for me - but that is proving just too expensive now. How do I even start to register to do it myself?  I'm scared and no good at online forms.  Sorry to be an utter baby about this but the tax people scare me.


Just go to the HMRC website and sign up. It's soooo much easier than it used to be. For me it's generally pretty straight forward. Add up what I earned freelancing, take away expenses. Usually I don't have expenses, and if I hadn't with this years form I would have been easily done well within half an hour.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 19, 2021)

Thank you ATOMIC SUPLEX  for the encouragement!  I recall looking at it years ago and running away back to an accountant.  I'll try to be brave.

If I file early enough the tax people work out the tax payable don't they?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 19, 2021)

friendofdorothy said:


> Thank you ATOMIC SUPLEX  for the encouragement!  I recall looking at it years ago and running away back to an accountant.  I'll try to be brave.
> 
> If I file early enough the tax people work out the tax payable don't they?



You see it immediately at the end when you have filled it all out. If you do it well well well enough in advance you will get a letter and email detailing the amount you have to pay after the amount you have already paid on account has been deducted. Its too late for that now though, so you would have to do that sum yourself. You just have to know what your last payment on account was.


----------



## prunus (Jan 19, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You see it immediately at the end when you have filled it all out. If you do it well well well enough in advance you will get a letter and email detailing the amount you have to pay after the amount you have already paid on account has been deducted. Its too late for that now though, so you would have to do that sum yourself. You just have to know what your last payment on account was.



If you’re using the online portal (as I presume you will?) you don’t have to do the calculation net of payments on account - although the calculation when you submit doesn’t take it into account if you log back in again after 3 days it will tell you “you must pay X” which is the net amount.

It can take a while to go through the registering process (or at least it used to - might have got better) so probably best to start the process right away if you want to use it for this year.

It’s really not hard at all nowadays - guides you all the way through it. Plus plenty of people on here to help.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 20, 2021)

prunus said:


> If you’re using the online portal (as I presume you will?) you don’t have to do the calculation net of payments on account - although the calculation when you submit doesn’t take it into account if you log back in again after 3 days it will tell you “you must pay X” which is the net amount.
> 
> It can take a while to go through the registering process (or at least it used to - might have got better) so probably best to start the process right away if you want to use it for this year.
> 
> It’s really not hard at all nowadays - guides you all the way through it. Plus plenty of people on here to help.


I didn't know it only took a few days now. It never seemed to show what I owed taking into account my previous payments on account etc so I just did the sum myself using my own records. Not hard, just mildly nail biting when so much money is involved (and possibly a fine - though I have since discovered a fine is unlikely). 
I did notice that when I logged in this time the first thing it showed me was what I currently owe, though I just assumed this was because it was the second payment on account that is overdue as it was deferred from last July (covid).


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 20, 2021)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've never filed my own tax return.  I've always paid someone to do it for me - but that is proving just too expensive now. How do I even start to register to do it myself?  I'm scared and no good at online forms.  Sorry to be an utter baby about this but the tax people scare me.



For all that I'm a baby about it on this thread every year, that's mostly because anything to do with figures just makes my head swim. I think the form is probably as intuitive as you could hope for, and when I've had to ring HMRC helpline to clarify something I've always found them quite helpful - although I think they get less so the closer to 31 Jan you are because everyone's ringing them then.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 20, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> For all that I'm a baby about it on this thread every year, that's mostly because anything to do with figures just makes my head swim. I think the form is probably as intuitive as you could hope for, and when I've had to ring HMRC helpline to clarify something I've always found them quite helpful - although I think they get less so the closer to 31 Jan you are because everyone's ringing them then.


I agree, it's never as bad as it seems and the HMRC have always been good on the phone. The only real problem I ever had was when a company owned by a massive American company unbeknownst to me added a tax code for me as an intern working from abroad. . . Properly screwed up my return as they assumed I had not claimed some work on my form (when I had, I had just claimed it correctly) so they added it twice and tried to get more tax from me. They said I would need to get the us arm of the company that did the accounts (which I had no dealings with, plus the UK side had shut down by then) to change their records. Somehow it was my responsibility, not theirs, to get the employer to correct (their obvious tax avoiding) 'mistake'. I didn't manage to even get them to respond to me and eventually HMRC just said "fuck it" we will just put a note on it and leave it as an anomaly. Still give my OCD the jitters, as it's just not right.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 20, 2021)

Schmetterling said:


> Not if you did it reaaaaaaally late. Like, so late it was almost early again.
> 
> Found this
> 
> ...



Oh that's weird and quite a pitiful amount until I kick into working at home full time a la corona. . . . but then it's only £26 a month. 
How do you judge your hours? Is it just up to you? I am not sure what is reasonable. 
I am guessing I do about an hour a day when I don't have a specific job on, just emailing clients, scouting new work and keeping up to date, then about two hours (maybe more) where I am working, just doing extra script work and keeping up with the client. 

How are the HMRC supposed to check all this, especially if I am doing it on a cash basis where the total amount is just lumped together and nothing more than a word document on my drive for my own records?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 20, 2021)

Does a receipt for an oyster top up receipt count? I wouldn't have used an oyster for anything other than a work trip.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 20, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Does a receipt for an oyster top up receipt count? I wouldn't have used an oyster for anything other than a work trip.


Ignore that, I have just figured out it was a payment I made on my daughters oyster so that it had enough on it for a trip to new malden on a Saturday. Bum.


----------



## Schmetterling (Jan 20, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh that's weird and quite a pitiful amount until I kick into working at home full time a la corona. . . . but then it's only £26 a month.
> How do you judge your hours? Is it just up to you? I am not sure what is reasonable.
> I am guessing I do about an hour a day when I don't have a specific job on, just emailing clients, scouting new work and keeping up to date, then about two hours (maybe more) where I am working, just doing extra script work and keeping up with the client.
> 
> How are the HMRC supposed to check all this, especially if I am doing it on a cash basis where the total amount is just lumped together and nothing more than a word document on my drive for my own records?



I am fully self-employed so for me it's five days a week and I have a dedicated office. Here is a screenshot of how I work out the percentages to claim.  The SA return very much relies on honesty; they, as far as I know, rarely check; however, in case they do check one day I also have a sheet in the spreadsheet where I list the categories with all their payment dates (from downloaded bank statement) and amounts.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 20, 2021)

Schmetterling said:


> I am fully self-employed so for me it's five days a week and I have a dedicated office. Here is a screenshot of how I work out the percentages to claim.  The SA return very much relies on honesty; they, as far as I know, rarely check; however, in case they do check one day I also have a sheet in the spreadsheet where I list the categories with all their payment dates (from downloaded bank statement) and amounts.
> 
> View attachment 250261


Hummm, I think because I have almost paid my mortgage off I can't really do the rent thing, and even if I did I guess it would work out less than the simplified version. Maybe when I charge for 2020 - 2021 where I was only working from home it will make more sense. 
They want the simplified version just to be in terms of hours. 
I almost certainly do at least an hour a day when not with a client and at least two hours from home when I am (the rest is spent wherever the client is based) I assume I can just say thing rather than write out a detailed breakdown of hours worked from home every day? I have no idea of the exact times as I didn't know I could be claiming in this way. Do you thin that is acceptable or should I not make the work from home claim?


----------



## Schmetterling (Jan 20, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Hummm, I think because I have almost paid my mortgage off I can't really do the rent thing, and even if I did I guess it would work out less than the simplified version. Maybe when I charge for 2020 - 2021 where I was only working from home it will make more sense.
> They want the simplified version just to be in terms of hours.
> I almost certainly do at least an hour a day when not with a client and at least two hours from home when I am (the rest is spent wherever the client is based) I assume I can just say thing rather than write out a detailed breakdown of hours worked from home every day? I have no idea of the exact times as I didn't know I could be claiming in this way. Do you thin that is acceptable or should I not make the work from home claim?



Just carry out the comparative calculations once and then you shall know forevermore which one is better for you. 

So you are already working for a minimum of 15 hours per week, that’s almost half a working week.

I think that you absolutely should claim for your home expenses. I gladly pay tax - no laughing   - but I also think that we should, or even must, claim for what we are entitled to claim for.

Here are a couple of links you might find helpful.









						Allowable expenses for homeworkers FAQs
					

FAQs on claiming allowable expenses when you are self…




					www.moneydonut.co.uk
				








__





						Expenses if you're self-employed
					

Business expenses you can claim if you're self-employed




					www.gov.uk


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 20, 2021)

Schmetterling said:


> So you are already working for a minimum of 15 hours per week, that’s almost half a working week.



I'm doing a minimum of 0 when I am on holiday. When not directly working on a contracted job I am only fishing for work and doing upkeep so only about an hour a day, so only 5 hours a week from home.

If I am working I do about an hours home prep in the am, and then maybe another hour or two in the evening reviewing the days work and getting ready for the next day. That's between 10 and 15 hours work at home a week. That's probably the max, unless there is something special to do, or I am creating graphics or music at home.

A normal working full working week for me is 40 - 50 hours away from home. sometimes its more, it's not often less.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 22, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You see it immediately at the end when you have filled it all out. If you do it well well well enough in advance you will get a letter and email detailing the amount you have to pay after the amount you have already paid on account has been deducted. Its too late for that now though, so you would have to do that sum yourself. You just have to know what your last payment on account was.


Thanks. I've already got my tax bill for this jan - curtesy of expensive accountant. I'm planning ahead for doing the next tax year.  
All that payment on account stuff does my head in and I don't really understand it when an accountant explains it - well I get the gist - I just dont understand how they come up with the figures. They always seem to bear little relation to what I am earning/ hoping to earn.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 22, 2021)

friendofdorothy said:


> Thanks. I've already got my tax bill for this jan - curtesy of expensive accountant. I'm planning ahead for doing the next tax year.
> All that payment on account stuff does my head in and I don't really understand it when an accountant explains it - well I get the gist - I just dont understand how they come up with the figures. They always seem to bear little relation to what I am earning/ hoping to earn.


Your payment on account (in advance) is just the amount you paid in tax again but spilt into two, one to be paid with your January payment and another in July. It's done so you are paying tax while you are earning (like page people) instead of a year later. As these are payments on account they will be deducted from your next tax bill amount. The idea is that it's assumed you will earn roughly the same every year.

My tax is pretty simple. I don't sell any products, have any stock, pay any staff etc etc. I just hire out my services and sometimes have to buy equipment to help me do that, or pay for travel somewhere to do that. It's quite straightforward money in and money out. It's not worth me paying anyone to do the HMRC form for me, as the hardest bit is keeping records and adding them up.


----------



## Winot (Jan 22, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The idea is that it's assumed you will earn roughly the same every year.



And it’s worth pointing out that if you expect to earn less in the current year than you made last year then you can tell HMRC this and they will reduce the advance payment against future earnings.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 22, 2021)

Winot said:


> And it’s worth pointing out that if you expect to earn less in the current year than you made last year then you can tell HMRC this and they will reduce the advance payment against future earnings.


True, though I would only do that if the circumstances were extreme as it complicates things (slightly) and the HMRC balance any overpayment and give you the interest accrued.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 22, 2021)

Just looking at claiming for travel between work and home.

HMRC says you can't claim for travel between work and home. But if my workplace changes on each contract and my self employed address is my home can I bung in a monthly train ticket? Pretty much every day (before working remotely) I would go to and work at my employers office during that contract. I may work out of two buildings but they are all usually walking distance from each other. I would also however do about an hour's administrative and days prep in my home office, and review and write up a day's work in my home office at the end of the day. I may also from time to time do various graphic and sound/music work for the client from home. 

. . . So would it be legit to add monthly travelcards? I don't want to take the piss, but it's quite a large expenditure.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 22, 2021)

Hummm, I 'think' I have done my taxes, but am worried it look suspicious for two reasons. Firstly, I have loads more expenses than I would normally out in for because of more train travel and buying a laptop, secondly the expenses exactly bring me to just under the 50,000 threshold. . . . I've never made that much, must have been a mega year. 
Is this the sort of thing that triggers an audit? I mean, I guess I have all the receipts, but do I have to argue them? Would I have to somehow prove my working from home hours? I'm not sure how I could. . . And it's not like my clients kept track of my working hours at home or in the office. Probably just being paranoid.


----------



## nick (Jan 24, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Just looking at claiming for travel between work and home.
> 
> HMRC says you can't claim for travel between work and home. But if my workplace changes on each contract and my self employed address is my home can I bung in a monthly train ticket? Pretty much every day (before working remotely) I would go to and work at my employers office during that contract. I may work out of two buildings but they are all usually walking distance from each other. I would also however do about an hour's administrative and days prep in my home office, and review and write up a day's work in my home office at the end of the day. I may also from time to time do various graphic and sound/music work for the client from home.
> 
> . . . So would it be legit to add monthly travelcards? I don't want to take the piss, but it's quite a large expenditure.


I'm not a tax accountant, but yes  (strip out any personal use)

Assuming each of the places you contract at is for <2 years (there are also rules about popping back after a gap)t then your main place of work is your self employed address, so the travel to the employer client would be work travel 

I'd give it 10 minutes to see if anyone more knowledgeable can pop along to contradict or confirm the above


----------



## nick (Jan 24, 2021)

talking of wfh, you remind me that  I have this as a reminder to incorporate on my next tax return:

Help yourself to some tax allowance: 

Claim £6 per week
Claim tax relief for your job expenses


Can claim for the *whole year* in 20/21, even if you only wfh for one week - see here:
Martin Lewis: Working from home due to coronavirus, even for a day? Claim a year's worth of tax relief

Even if you are PAYE, there is an online form to complete  to get your tax code adjusted.

If you do a return, then you can bring the relief into that


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2021)

I was just checking the HMRC website for details on claiming working from home and found this.

View attachment 250710

Am I going mad?
That's totally wrong right?


nick said:


> talking of wfh, you remind me that  I have this as a reminder to incorporate on my next tax return:
> 
> Help yourself to some tax allowance:
> 
> ...


I think that is only for PAYE really isn't it? As you fill in your working from home hours on your normal return anyway. 
It will be something I add to my taxes next year. Right?
My wife (PAYE) just applied. 

Actually I remember now that I did already previously look at it just to see, and it came up with a message that I need to do it though self assessment.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2021)

nick said:


> I'm not a tax accountant, but yes  (strip out any personal use)
> 
> Assuming each of the places you contract at is for <2 years (there are also rules about popping back after a gap)t then your main place of work is your self employed address, so the travel to the employer client would be work travel
> 
> I'd give it 10 minutes to see if anyone more knowledgeable can pop along to contradict or confirm the above


OK, that's reassuring. 
All my contracts are usually done within a couple of months tops. 
I stupidly never really asked that question before, thought it was a bit of a grey area that I should stay clear of just in case, but those travel expenses are really rather a lot, especially when working down in Brighton. 
The easy part is that I only use that travel for work. Same with my home office (separate building and computer etc).


----------



## nick (Jan 24, 2021)

PAYE is just a way of collecting tax from employees at source (the buggers can't apparently be trusted to save up and pay in a lump sum)
The £6 per week I linked to is for employees asked to work from home. As self-employed (I think you said) you are (hopefully) claiming a whole lot more for all the home office expenses that you doubtless incur (wholly and exclusively) + travel etc (within approved rules blah blah).

Yep the online claim doesnt really work for self-employed, or Ltd Co contractors etc - just stick it on the tax return  (it is designed for those like Mrs Suplex who may not usually do tax returns)


----------



## nick (Jan 24, 2021)

oh - and re the gift aid talk further up thread - you know you can retrospectively do the gift aid declaration, or do it before you make the gift

It means the charity can get £125 for every £100 you give and, if you pay higher rate tax, you also get tax back through your tax return - as well as a warm and fuzzy feeling



> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


(the "normal time limit" is around 4 years)

Here is the gift aid guidance for individuals




__





						Tax relief when you donate to a charity
					

Tax relief on donations, Gift Aid, payroll giving, leaving a gift in your will, keeping tax records; find a charity; donating land, property or shares




					www.gov.uk
				



you can even shift the year in which you want to apply the gift aid, which may help if you are shifting tax bands due to fluctuating taxable income


----------



## mx wcfc (Jan 24, 2021)

I expect it's probably me doing something wrong, but I'm just going round and round in circles.

I tell HMRC's website I want to do my tax return.
It tells me I need to sign in
I enter my email/password, then it sends a text.
I then run upstairs to the-room-that-has-phone-signal
Wait for the text, get the text, run downstairs, enter the code.
It asks what I want to do.
I tell it I want to do my tax return.
It tells me I need to sign in.......... 

I give up.  Try tomorrow......


----------



## nick (Jan 25, 2021)

next time you log on, click on the "remember me for 7 days box"   ?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 25, 2021)

nick said:


> oh - and re the gift aid talk further up thread - you know you can retrospectively do the gift aid declaration, or do it before you make the gift
> 
> It means the charity can get £125 for every £100 you give and, if you pay higher rate tax, you also get tax back through your tax return - as well as a warm and fuzzy feeling
> 
> ...


I found the gift aid thing an absolute ball ache when I looked at it previously. If I don't fill it in but claimed to be a gift aider when I donated, does that Rob the charity of some bucks? 
I have mostly donated loads of furniture and clothes so I would have to contact the charities to see what my items actually sold for.


----------



## prunus (Jan 25, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I found the gift aid thing an absolute ball ache when I looked at it previously. If I don't fill it in but claimed to be a gift aider when I donated, does that Rob the charity of some bucks?
> I have mostly donated loads of furniture and clothes so I would have to contact the charities to see what my items actually sold for.



It makes no difference to the charity whether you put it on your tax return or not. And it makes no difference to you either unless you pay higher or additional tax rates. If you do you can be repaid the difference between your marginal rate and the base rate already donated to charity - which is 20% for higher and 25% for additional rate payers.

Eg: you donate £100 to a charity. They get £25 from HMRC (the basic rate you paid on the £125).

If you pay higher rate tax you put the £125 donation (ie the gross amount) on your tax return and will get a rebate of 20% (the difference between the 20% rate already claimed by the charity and the 40% tax rate you pay) of that, ie £25, deducted from your tax bill. If you pay additional rate (45%) you’d get 25% of the £125 back - ie £31.25.

If you’re a basic rate tax payer you don’t get any rebate - all the 20% you paid has already been given to the charity.

Source: I used to administer gift aid for a charity and had to explain this to people about 10,000 times. I hope I’ve got it right!


----------



## nick (Jan 25, 2021)

yep - and to add the converse.
The charity can only claim the gift aid if you have "ticked the box" on a gift aid declaration to them. could be a tick on a sponsorship form or on a web site with a donation, or a bespoke bit of paper.
Doesn't need a signature , just name and address and a confirmation that you pay enough tax.

You are only "robbing" the charity of the extra 25% if you don't do the gift aid declaration (before, at the time of or within a few years after) of the donation .


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 25, 2021)

Deffo always registered for gift aid with my name and address.


----------



## Leafster (Jan 25, 2021)

HMRC have announced this morning that they won't be charging a late filing penalty of £100 if you haven't managed to file your Tax Return by 31st January. Instead, Tax Returns will have to be filed by 28th February to avoid a penalty. 

Any tax that would be payable is still due by 31st January so interest will start running from this date even if you haven't yet calculated the liabilities.


----------



## lazythursday (Jan 25, 2021)

Oh I just feel like crying. I usually do this using an online accounting package and import all my bank transactions but ive been really slack and haven't actually imported anything for this financial year and now it turns out I can only go back 12 months so now I have to enter everything manually. And I have no idea whatsoever where any of my offline receipts might be.

And it is strangely upsetting going through bank statements from summer 19 and seeing all the transactions in cafes and bars and train journeys and trips to the Lakes. It is like some curious historical document from another era.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 25, 2021)

A miserable experience thank fuck it's done. Next year is gonna be so easy. Basically a massive loss.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 25, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> A miserable experience thank fuck it's done. Next year is gonna be so easy. Basically a massive loss.


Yeah next year is pretty straight forward, no travel, all work is from home, straightforward home office purchases to get fully up and running. Only two jobs to add and the government self employed pay outs. Far far less earned so the payments on account from this year will be more than enough to pay for next years bill including the new payments on account. Hurrah.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 25, 2021)

Something I only realised this year - assuming I've got it right.

If you're self employed and your expenses come to less than £1000 then you might as well just claim the "trading income allowance" of £1000 instead of working out and entering your "actual" expenses.
This is likely to be the case if you do the kind of work where your main expenses are work-from-home costs and insurance and stuff. If you're not purchasing expensive equipment in order to do your work.
Previously I'd been working out my expenses using those "simplified expenses" flat rates and so on, and entering these, but it wasn't really necessary.

The way you claim the allowance is a bit weird (unless I'm doing it wrong). You enter your turnover, and then you enter a number into the "trading income allowance" box. That gets subtracted from your turnover later in the form to produce your "net business profit for tax purposes". The number you enter into that box is, I assume, £1000. But why would you enter any other number in there? I don't see why it's not just a tick box that says "yes I want to claim the £1000 trading income allowance".


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jan 25, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Something I only realised this year - assuming I've got it right.
> 
> If you're self employed and your expenses come to less than £1000 then you might as well just claim the "trading income allowance" of £1000 instead of working out and entering your "actual" expenses.
> This is likely to be the case if you do the kind of work where your main expenses are work-from-home costs and insurance and stuff. If you're not purchasing expensive equipment in order to do your work.
> ...


I think you got this wrong:
"If your annual gross *income* from these is £1,000 or less, you do not need to tell HMRC"
Not expenses.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 25, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> I think you got this wrong:
> "If your annual gross *income* from these is £1,000 or less, you do not need to tell HMRC"
> Not expenses.


If your total income is less than £1000 then it's covered under this allowance, that's right, and you don't pay any tax on it at all.

But if your total income is more than £1000 you can still use the allowance - you don't pay tax on the first £1000 of your total income.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jan 25, 2021)

teuchter said:


> If your total income is less than £1000 then it's covered under this allowance, that's right, and you don't pay any tax on it at all.
> 
> But if your total income is more than £1000 you can still use the allowance - you don't pay tax on the first £1000 of your total income.


is that on top of the tax threshold?
e2a: ha, I get it now


----------



## teuchter (Jan 25, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> is that on top of the tax threshold?
> e2a: ha, I get it now


Yeah, I find it way more confusing than it needs to be. 

There could just be a tick box that says "do you want to use your £1000 allowance instead of entering expenses".


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## billy_bob (Jan 26, 2021)

Leafster said:


> HMRC have announced this morning that they won't be charging a late filing penalty of £100 if you haven't managed to file your Tax Return by 31st January. Instead, Tax Returns will have to be filed by 28th February to avoid a penalty.
> 
> Any tax that would be payable is still due by 31st January so interest will start running from this date even if you haven't yet calculated the liabilities.



I missed that, and I've spent the day filling mine in when I really can't spare the time this week. Bastards!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 30, 2021)

Finished mine just now, even though I can't find my P45 - I actually have the figures for income, tax paid and taxable benefits from when I was on PAYE, so all I needed to do was find the employer VAT reference from old payslips and that was fine. (I've not submitted it yet though as I will have another search for my P45 just to double check, but those figures actually came from HMRC so I think they should line up.)

That satisfying feeling of doing yourself out of a grand for being honest about self employment. Ah well.

At least I can feel a bit smug for doing it early.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 30, 2021)

Humm my own calculations have me owing £200 or so more than the HMRC is asking me for. Payment went out yesterday but HMRC not updated. Hopefully I can view my updated account details today or tomorrow and if there has been some mistake form either side. 
At least the return is submitted.


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## billy_bob (Jan 30, 2021)

Fair play to you for double-checking they're asking for the right amount. They could tell me any figure at all  - it'd have to be more than I actually earned before I noticed something was wrong.


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## prunus (Jan 30, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Humm my own calculations have me owing £200 or so more than the HMRC is asking me for. Payment went out yesterday but HMRC not updated. Hopefully I can view my updated account details today or tomorrow and if there has been some mistake form either side.
> At least the return is submitted.



If you look at the detailed calculation breakdown on the hmrc site it should be relatively easy to see where the divergence is coming from.


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## equationgirl (Jan 30, 2021)

Mine's done. It was a tedious job but next year's will be easier (not so much travelling and incurring expenses for work).

Although my computer did shut down randomly as I was doing the file uploads, fortunately I have a spare laptop to use. Main computer is 10 years old so overheats on occasion,

Hurrah, it's done!


----------



## Epona (Apr 23, 2021)

When I did my tax return for 2019/20, as I was way under my personal allowance (I had something like 3 months part time work as a self employed sub-contractor on an exploitatively low day rate and no other income that year) I transferred the allowed amount of £1,250 of my personal tax allowance to my husband.

Does anyone know how this works in terms of him either getting a rebate for that tax year or having his tax code adjusted?  They said he had underpaid tax for the year at that time and they subsequently adjusted his payments via PAYE for the 20/21 year, ofc he was already paying that off before I had even done my tax return for the year in question.

His PAYE is often all over the place because he has more than 1 employer (part time permanent work with one employer plus agency work that isn't a set number of hours or set £ per hour) so he often gets notices that he owes some tax or is due a rebate.

At what point, if any, should I chase up whether the portion of my allowance that is due to be transferred to him has been made and necessary adjustments to his PAYE or rebate calculated?


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## Elpenor (Apr 23, 2021)

Was this transferred via marriage allowance?






						Marriage Allowance
					

Marriage Allowance allows you to transfer some of your Personal Allowance to your husband, wife or civil partner: what you get and how to apply for free.




					www.gov.uk
				




If so his PAYE coding should have a M suffix. This can be checked via a payslip or his govt gateway HMRC account.

I believe it needs to be applied for / renewed each year. Other posters will know more.


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## Epona (Apr 23, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> Was this transferred via marriage allowance?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh thanks, he does have an M suffix for 2018/19 (I had to grab a payslip to get his NI number to allocate some of my personal allowance for 20/21 when I was doing that and an old one was nearby and had the M suffix).  So presumably it will be applied during the year whenever - he'll still end up with his PAYE being all over the place, but it should help a bit.

I have to do self assessment so when applicable I check the box to say that I haven't earned up to my personal allowance and that I want to transfer some of my allowance to my husband - I've not earned more than my personal allowance in years and always transfer a portion to my husband


----------



## Elpenor (Apr 23, 2021)

I can’t remember if it carries forward each tax year, I’ve never claimed it but I do see it on a day to day basis.

Any PAYE work you do should be taxed using a coding with an N suffix as you are transferring the allowance to your husband.


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## Epona (Apr 23, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> I can’t remember if it carries forward each tax year, I’ve never claimed it but I do see it on a day to day basis.
> 
> Any PAYE work you do should be taxed using a coding with an N suffix as you are transferring the allowance to your husband.



I am not doing any PAYE work, just very very casual self employed stuff (a couple of jobs a year at most, and on a self employed basis so I invoice the client or contractor for my time) so I don't get a payslip or a P60.

But he is on PAYE so I assume any payslip he gets with the suffix M means it is being taken into account?


----------



## Elpenor (Apr 23, 2021)

Epona said:


> But he is on PAYE so I assume any payslip he gets with the suffix M means it is being taken into account?



Yes.


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## Epona (Apr 23, 2021)

Ah balls, I was hoping he might be due a lump sum rebate - ah well never mind 

It's probably just confusing the issue as far as his varying PAYE goes - will wait and see whether he gets a demand for payment from HMRC for the year that just ended - at least my personal allowance offset should help a bit.  I don't think low paid agency/multi-employer workers are done any favours, it can be difficult to work out what is your primary employment etc.  Maybe he should just register his head office in Jersey or something


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## Elpenor (Apr 23, 2021)

My employment last year was a bit messy, had PAYE from 4 employers but none concurrently, I’ve worked out I am due a few hundred quid back as one employer had me on Basic Rate incorrectly. 

When I logged into my government gateway account this week, there was a message which stated “we will adjust your coding if necessary, this will be between June and October, don’t contact us”. I have heard the awful HMRC music enough for one  life as part of my job so I will give it a few months.


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## Epona (May 4, 2021)

OH got a cheque for £150 rebate, with my £460 overpayment being refunded this is the most financial good news we've had in ages.  (I knew about my overpayment though because I keep my own records, he is on PAYE and his rebate was a nice surprise)


----------



## Epona (May 6, 2021)

He's got 2 more letters off HMRC delivered yesterday, I assume one of them is his P60 for 20/21 but the other one is alarming.  Hope it is another cheque rather than an "actually you owe us" letter.


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## Elpenor (May 6, 2021)

P60 would be from employer not HMRC


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## Epona (May 6, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> P60 would be from employer not HMRC



Which employer though? That is a hot mess for him, which is why he gets "here's a cheque" followed by "here's a payment demand" from HMRC.
I think his P60 has come direct from HMRC the last few years


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## Elpenor (May 6, 2021)

Each employer should send a P60 it should state their PAYE Reference. Maybe it’s the HMRC summary of all earnings - SA302?


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## Epona (May 6, 2021)

We'll see when he opens the envelopes, we are having a phone crisis right now, then we need to go and vote, then sleep, then he needs to get back up in 5 hours to go back to work.

(I know some people are surprised that folks don't open their post right away, but some folks have the benefit of a much more ordered and sane life than others)


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## Elpenor (May 6, 2021)

I wouldn’t expect many employers send P60 forms by post these days, and if the payslips don’t come by post then the P60s almost certainly won’t.

That said I’ve not opened my own post for a few days


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## platinumsage (Dec 16, 2021)

As part of my self-assessment i need to upload a pdf file. On every other website that lets you upload pdf files this is easy - you select the file and click “upload”, and it uploads it. 

Not so on the HMRC site. When I click upload it says “The upload service is currently unavailable” and gives a support phone number. So in the text box at the end for additional information i’ve said that if they want a paper copy of the document they should write to me. Twats.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 16, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> As part of my self-assessment i need to upload a pdf file. On every other website that lets you upload pdf files this is easy - you select the file and click “upload”, and it uploads it.
> 
> Not so on the HMRC site. When I click upload it says “The upload service is currently unavailable” and gives a support phone number. So in the text box at the end for additional information i’ve said that if they want a paper copy of the document they should write to me. Twats.


Really? is submitting a PDF something new? Ive never been asked to submit anything other than numbers, and not very many of them. They just seem to leave all that stuff for 'if they need to contact you and see your records'.


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## platinumsage (Dec 16, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Really? is submitting a PDF something new? Ive never been asked to submit anything other than numbers, and not very many of them. They just seem to leave all that stuff for 'if they need to contact you and see your records'.



It's just part of one of the supplementary sections that a lot of people won't need to complete.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 16, 2021)

Phew


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## billy_bob (Dec 16, 2021)

Oh fuck this, already? Didn't I just do one of these fuckers?


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## Chilli.s (Dec 16, 2021)

Fuck all work for ages, should make this easy


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 16, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> Oh fuck this, already? Didn't I just do one of these fuckers?



Just do what so many do, leave it until 31 Jan, then call HMRC and tell them you need guided through the whole return.

We were Debt Management, but got called in in Jan to help with SA peak.

Those were often 90+ plus calls a day days.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 19, 2021)

First time I won't be filling on 31/01 as I did it for my final SEISS grant.
Helped a couple of friends who were paying an accountant £90 each to enter their own calculations (not bad for 20 minutes work) and will probably help another one in the same situation.


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## equationgirl (Dec 19, 2021)

It can't be time already...


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## Tooter (Jan 4, 2022)

I'm still pretending it's not there for now. Done most of it to work out the last grant but well aware with no deductions to speak of I'm going to end up with a big bill 😐


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## Leafster (Jan 6, 2022)

For anyone struggling to sort their Tax Return by 31st January HMRC have waived the late filing penalty and late payment penalty for one month. So you now have until 28th February to file and pay. 









						HMRC gives Self Assessment taxpayers more time to ease COVID-19 pressures
					

Late filing and late payment penalties are to be waived for one month for Self Assessment taxpayers.




					www.gov.uk


----------



## Schmetterling (Jan 6, 2022)

Leafster said:


> For anyone struggling to sort their Tax Return by 31st January HMRC have waived the late filing penalty and late payment penalty for one month. So you now have until 28th February to file and pay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you, that is really helpful to know.   I filed in October but know that I will be a little short for making the full payment by 31.1.


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## Tooter (Jan 17, 2022)

I'm running out of distractions! 😐


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## Epona (Jan 20, 2022)

Why I didn't do mine back in April (given that I had no income for the year in question so it was dead simple) is beyond me, but I did it this morning and the fact it isn't gone 10pm on the last day is something of a feat.  I've also paid a bill, done laundry, and cleaned the bathroom basin and the kitchen sink.  I should probably try to do some more cleaning this afternoon since I am clearly having a good day for Getting Stuff Done.


----------



## Schmetterling (Jan 20, 2022)

Epona said:


> Why I didn't do mine back in April (given that I had no income for the year in question so it was dead simple) is beyond me, but I did it this morning and the fact it isn't gone 10pm on the last day is something of a feat.  I've also paid a bill, done laundry, and cleaned the bathroom basin and the kitchen sink.  I should probably try to do some more cleaning this afternoon since I am clearly having a good day for Getting Stuff Done.


Nah, you’ve done enough for this year.


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## Tooter (Jan 21, 2022)

Gahhhhh! Payment on account is a pain in the arse!!

not only do i pay my tax but for 21-22 too? its almost the same amount again 

eta: i managed to reduce it! phew....


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## billy_bob (Jan 24, 2022)

FFS this is worse than Groundhog Day


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 24, 2022)

Leafster said:


> For anyone struggling to sort their Tax Return by 31st January HMRC have waived the late filing penalty and late payment penalty for one month. So you now have until 28th February to file and pay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interest still calculated from 1st February.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2022)

Hello. 
Just submitted my return. Seems (due to sod all work last period) my tax plus first payment on account is less that the two payments on account I made last year. 
Does that mean I just . . . pay nothing? I just wait for my refund and make my second payment on account in July?


----------



## Leafster (Jan 24, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Hello.
> Just submitted my return. Seems (due to sod all work last period) my tax plus first payment on account is less that the two payments on account I made last year.
> Does that mean I just . . . pay nothing? I just wait for my refund and make my second payment on account in July?


Did you tick a box to ask for any overpayment to be repaid to you? If you did, then you just wait for the money to arrive. You'll then just pay the second payment on account in July as normal.

If you didn't tick a box to ask for a repayment now then it's going to be carried forward and will offset the second payment on account in July. 

If you didn't tick a box now, you can always log into your tax account at a later date and request the repayment then. Of course, if they pay repay you then, you'll need to pay the second PoA as normal.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2022)

Leafster said:


> Did you tick a box to ask for any overpayment to be repaid to you? If you did, then you just wait for the money to arrive. You'll then just pay the second payment on account in July as normal.
> 
> If you didn't tick a box to ask for a repayment now then it's going to be carried forward and will offset the second payment on account in July.
> 
> If you didn't tick a box now, you can always log into your tax account at a later date and request the repayment then. Of course, if they pay repay you then, you'll need to pay the second PoA as normal.


I honestly can't remember if I clicked for a repayment to be repaid to me. I know I have done it before, and it asked for my bank details . . . I know that didn't happen this time. 
But just to clarify. . .  I don't do anything now right? I don't have to tell them that I'm not paying anything?


----------



## Leafster (Jan 24, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I honestly can't remember if I clicked for a repayment to be repaid to me. I know I have done it before, and it asked for my bank details . . . I know that didn't happen this time.
> But just to clarify. . .  I don't do anything now right? I don't have to tell them that I'm not paying anything?


No, you don't have to do anything now. You don't need to tell them you're not paying anything now as the Tax Return you've just submitted tells them.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 24, 2022)

Phew - done it.

I get biscuits and the rest of the week off now, right?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2022)

Leafster said:


> No, you don't have to do anything now. You don't need to tell them you're not paying anything now as the Tax Return you've just submitted tells them.


Oddly though I just went back in to double check. For some reason I found it very difficult to navigate to my summited return, and before I found it I found a section (that I had not seen before) that said I needed to pay X by Jan 31. The amount of X though was exactly the same as my first and second payments on account from the previous year. My only guess is that it estimates an amount based on the previous years advance payments on account, and the system hasn't got my submission yet???? 

The HMRC website is unnecessarily difficult to navigate in certain sections. Council websites too. Who makes them?


----------



## Leafster (Jan 24, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oddly though I just went back in to double check. For some reason I found it very difficult to navigate to my summited return, and before I found it I found a section (that I had not seen before) that said I needed to pay X by Jan 31. The amount of X though was exactly the same as my first and second payments on account from the previous year. My only guess is that it estimates an amount based on the previous years advance payments on account, and the system hasn't got my submission yet????
> 
> The HMRC website is unnecessarily difficult to navigate in certain sections. Council websites too. Who makes them?


I'd leave it a day for HMRC systems to "capture" the Return info. I don't think all the systems work in real time. Instead, they do regular updates both within and between their systems. It's only after these updates that you can trust the information they give you. Even then, I'm not entirely sure it's always right!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 25, 2022)

Oh fuck. So for 2020 to 2021 I made a grand total of £120 in self employment and claimed some grants. I did agency work before accepting the game was up for the year and taking a full time job. 

I've just done the return and expected to pay a little over £500, basically just tax on the grants. Done the return and it thinks I owe them £1400, it appears that I didn't pay enough tax PAYE. It's not like I was working multiple jobs at one time or anything, so don't understand how it could have fucked up so badly. I'll give them a call, but suspect thats a grand gone I wasn't expecting.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 27, 2022)

HMRC are saying I have to pay back _all_ my SEISS grants because I wasn't trading in 20-21. Even with the grants, my self employment income was just shy of £1000 so I ticked the 'less than 1000 from self employment' box, which means you then don't get an option to declare how much you earned and you're classified as 'not self employed'. The tax robots have therefore decided I wasn't entitled to claim the grant. I got the bill today, and it's due by 31st of January.

I don't know what the fuck to do with that. I've amended my return to include my last paid invoice, even though it hit my bank on the last day of the previous tax year so technically shouldn't count, but if your income from self employment fell to zero they want the money back? Fuck that. If they'd given me more than 1000 in SEISS grant I would have declared it but I got 954 quid or something. 

Fucking panicking now. I do not have a thousand quid to give HMRC in three days' time or ever.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2022)

I'm already knee deep in procrastination...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 27, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> HMRC are saying I have to pay back _all_ my SEISS grants because I wasn't trading in 20-21. Even with the grants, my self employment income was just shy of £1000 so I ticked the 'less than 1000 from self employment' box, which means you then don't get an option to declare how much you earned and you're classified as 'not self employed'. The tax robots have therefore decided I wasn't entitled to claim the grant. I got the bill today, and it's due by 31st of January.
> 
> I don't know what the fuck to do with that. I've amended my return to include my last paid invoice, even though it hit my bank on the last day of the previous tax year so technically shouldn't count, but if your income from self employment fell to zero they want the money back? Fuck that. If they'd given me more than 1000 in SEISS grant I would have declared it but I got 954 quid or something.
> 
> Fucking panicking now. I do not have a thousand quid to give HMRC in three days' time or ever.


Holy shit that is terrifying. I could have quite easily been in the same boat were it not for two short lucky jobs. It's not that I wouldn't have been 'open for business', I just wouldn't got any. . . .  bloody hell.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 27, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Holy shit that is terrifying. I could have quite easily been in the same boat were it not for two short lucky jobs. It's not that I wouldn't have been 'open for business', I just wouldn't got any. . . .  bloody hell.



I've sent them a letter saying 'this is bullshit'. I stopped claiming when I started teacher training and wouldn't have been able to work, and have told them as much. I read everything very carefully when I made the claims in the first place and I'm pretty sure I'm in the clear. I can show I had months' worth of work prebooked when everything went to shit.

Looks like the decision was made by a robot tbh, if I'm lucky another robot will unmake it before anyone even reads the letter.

HMRC are useless cunts though. Phone them up and they do all the security questions, what is your query about, I heard 'dolphin orgy' is that correct? Oh right, income tax, no that makes more sense. OK could you just confirm every single piece of information about you that exists before we bother to say that there's nobody available and just cut you off.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 27, 2022)

I've said it before: they're actually rather pleasant and helpful - any time of year except the second half of January, when I imagine tempers get a little frayed in HQ... Still, that's a shitty, scary position to be in and doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I hope they correct it when a human looks at it properly.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 27, 2022)

They have generally been nice enough on the phone with anything I have had to sort out. Only problem is, they have not been able to help with anything I have called about in the last couple of years. I found out recently that something they said they had 'sorted' was not sorted at all, in fact there was another error they didn't spot. I have to call them again, but I am waiting until February / March. From what I am seeing at my end they don't have a lot of people at hand and any low level problems are being ignored. There is probably not enough money at stake on my account to trigger any warnings.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 30, 2022)

Mine is done. No tax to pay, surprisingly.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2022)

I'm going to be late as I frankly, can't be arsed to do it right now. I'll get it done before the end of Feb though.


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## lazythursday (Jan 30, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> HMRC are saying I have to pay back _all_ my SEISS grants because I wasn't trading in 20-21. Even with the grants, my self employment income was just shy of £1000 so I ticked the 'less than 1000 from self employment' box, which means you then don't get an option to declare how much you earned and you're classified as 'not self employed'. The tax robots have therefore decided I wasn't entitled to claim the grant. I got the bill today, and it's due by 31st of January.
> 
> I don't know what the fuck to do with that. I've amended my return to include my last paid invoice, even though it hit my bank on the last day of the previous tax year so technically shouldn't count, but if your income from self employment fell to zero they want the money back? Fuck that. If they'd given me more than 1000 in SEISS grant I would have declared it but I got 954 quid or something.
> 
> Fucking panicking now. I do not have a thousand quid to give HMRC in three days' time or ever.


Nasty. I am in a not totally dissimilar situation as I was a student for half of this tax year, and I claimed an SEISS grant (only one, which was just after returning to self employment and struggling to pick up any work) - and my total income (excluding student loan) is ridiculously small for the year - but it's a few grand at least so fingers crossed I don't get noticed by any robots.

And still haven't done the fucking thing though I have worked out all the figures and it's going to be a big fat zero.


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## Chilli.s (Jan 30, 2022)

Done mine. Thoroughly depressing how little I earned that year. And to have received nothing in the way of covid support money whilst others have got rich from the situation. Always reminds me how far outside mainstream society I really am. Paid my NI voluntarily though, gotta see some kind of pension.


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## RubyToogood (Jan 30, 2022)

Hours of pain. I owe them £1.60. Plus they seem to think I owe them £1 for last year. Whatevs.

Spent quite a long time looking for two lost bits of paper to cover missing periods, only to find they'd changed the accounting periods and it was all covered by the paperwork I had.


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## nick (Jan 30, 2022)

Today was tax return day, but now feeling tired so will save it until tomorrow. 
On the plus side I did loads of the ironing pile in a blatant procrastination attempt


No rush: there are hours left yet 


(should know better:  I'm a fucking accountant)


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## Epona (Jan 30, 2022)

In an interesting twist, on Friday I received a letter from them saying that I wouldn't have to do self-assessment in future.  If I want to re-activate my self-assessment status at any point I have to provide either a P60, a recent payslip, or a passport.  None of which I have - so if I earn any money next year that I need to declare and if I am not on PAYE (which I don't expect to be) then I need to provide documents that I don't have?

Maybe I have misunderstood the letter, but it's a bit worrying - I have been in an ID black hole for years now and have trouble getting "regular" employment, do I now need to try to sort out ID to get a passport so I can re-register as self employed if I earn anything in the coming year?

I wish they didn't overcomplicate things so much.


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 30, 2022)

Epona said:


> In an interesting twist, on Friday I received a letter from them saying that I wouldn't have to do self-assessment in future.  If I want to re-activate my self-assessment status at any point I have to provide either a P60, a recent payslip, or a passport.  None of which I have - so if I earn any money next year that I need to declare and if I am not on PAYE (which I don't expect to be) then I need to provide documents that I don't have?
> 
> Maybe I have misunderstood the letter, but it's a bit worrying - I have been in an ID black hole for years now and have trouble getting "regular" employment, do I now need to try to sort out ID to get a passport so I can re-register as self employed if I earn anything in the coming year?
> 
> I wish they didn't overcomplicate things so much.



You can get a P60 from the HMRC site if you've already got an account.


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## Epona (Jan 30, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> You can get a P60 from the HMRC site if you've already got an account.



Oh ok, cool - I've only ever previously had one at the end of a tax year where I've been earning on PAYE and it kind of happened automatically that it was sent to me!


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 31, 2022)

Paid. Depressing as fuck, almost a grand more then expected. But I then I got shit scared after reading this thread I might be asked for the grant back, but seem to have dodged that one.


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## equationgirl (Feb 2, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Mine is done. No tax to pay, surprisingly.


This was a lie.

I had to log back in to my tax account for another reason and the system said I owed £53.53, and the payment was overdue. So the 53p was one day's interest.

I am feeling pretty annoyed as my redundancy payment was put through as taxable income instead of non taxable, resulting in an eyewatering overpayment which I now have the pleasure of sorting out. Epic fail.

So am feeling pretty ripped off by the taxman wanting yet more money from me.


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## nick (Feb 4, 2022)

Still not quite there, but getting closer. Thought I would do a little more tidying up tonight

Note to self:
Don't get stoned just before you try to update the Business Asset Disposal Relief claim


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 8, 2022)

Oh FFS. Trying to be organised this year and get it done (plus they are trying to get me to pay way more upfront then I owe)

I also do PAYE work and normally it's prefilled in for me. And it's not. I think I have 4 employers in the last tax year so it's a right faff to find all that data


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## Leafster (Apr 8, 2022)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Oh FFS. Trying to be organised this year and get it done (plus they are trying to get me to pay way more upfront then I owe)
> 
> I also do PAYE work and normally it's prefilled in for me. And it's not. I think I have 4 employers in the last tax year so it's a right faff to find all that data


It could be that your employers haven't file their final EPS's for the year yet so HMRC won't know for certain what your employment income and tax deducted should be. 

The employers should file the final EPS's by 19th April 2022.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 8, 2022)

Leafster said:


> It could be that your employers haven't file their final EPS's for the year yet so HMRC won't know for certain what your employment income and tax deducted should be.
> 
> The employers should file the final EPS's by 19th April 2022.



Oh. That would be good. I'm trying to speak to them to find out (and tell them I don't owe them that much).

25 mins and I've not spoke to anyone yet!


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## Elpenor (Apr 8, 2022)

I’d suggest you wait until perhaps the beginning of May as Leafster says. 

I’ve already had employees pestering me for P60s!


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## lazythursday (Apr 8, 2022)

21/22 will be my first year with both PAYE and self employed income, not looking forward to next Jan one bit.

I really want to switch my accountancy website from this financial year. I use freeagent, and I screwed it up somewhere along the line, so none of the balances are right. It's fine for doing my invoices and expenditure but none of the other figures are right. And it costs too much per month. But switching seems so hard, because all my records are in freeagent if I was to get investigated or something. Feels like I am trapped.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 8, 2022)

Oh FFS. So your right. Just wait a bit. 45 mins to be told this. Except the 800 quid I actually owe them. It was put on the last tax bill after I submitted and paid it  It was already way higher then I expected due to an employer not taking enough of me, but turns out they still hadn't taken enough.


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## friendofdorothy (Apr 9, 2022)

Does anyone actually do their tax return now - right at the start of the tax year?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 9, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Does anyone actually do their tax return now - right at the start of the tax year?



I tried.


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## pseudonarcissus (Apr 9, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Does anyone actually do their tax return now - right at the start of the tax year?


yes....but I'm a NON DOM  non-resident as well. I have a couple of hundred quid to declare in the UK, but more importantly, I need to declare zero UK days showing another year of tax exile....only one more to go until CGT on the sale of my flat disappears. One rule for us


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## Sue (Apr 9, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Does anyone actually do their tax return now - right at the start of the tax year?


I'm thinking of doing mine pretty soon, mainly because they owe me money.


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## danski (Apr 9, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Does anyone actually do their tax return now - right at the start of the tax year?


If I hand my stuff to my accountant before September, I consider that immediate


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## Supine (Apr 9, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Does anyone actually do their tax return now - right at the start of the tax year?



I do as i pay tax in July and January. 

TBF my accountant does it all so no effort from me at all


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## iveivan (Apr 9, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Does anyone actually do their tax return now - right at the start of the tax year?


I will probably do it soon. Would rather know if I owe anything than wait. I don’t need to file it but I could prepare it.


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## skyscraper101 (Apr 25, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Does anyone actually do their tax return now - right at the start of the tax year?



I just helped the OH do her self-assessment. I've never done it myself as I've always been PAYE but it took about 45 minutes using the HMRC website. It didn't feel all that stressful.

Total up the income made, total up the expenses. Bung the figures into the website and they tell you how much tax you owe (if any). Am I missing something?


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## platinumsage (Apr 25, 2022)

iveivan said:


> I will probably do it soon. Would rather know if I owe anything than wait. I don’t need to file it but I could prepare it.



Don’t do what I did which is prepare everything online nice and early but not actually press the submit button, and then near the deadline think “oh I did all that ages ago” and get fined.


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## AnnaKarpik (Apr 25, 2022)

lazythursday said:


> 21/22 will be my first year with both PAYE and self employed income, not looking forward to next Jan one bit.
> 
> I really want to switch my accountancy website from this financial year. I use freeagent, and I screwed it up somewhere along the line, so none of the balances are right. It's fine for doing my invoices and expenditure but none of the other figures are right. And it costs too much per month. But switching seems so hard, because all my records are in freeagent if I was to get investigated or something. Feels like I am trapped.


You should be able to get Freeagent cheaper through an accountant or bookkeeper if you can find one prepared to pass on the discount they get. As for the incorrect balances, as long as you haven't been putting manual entries through the bank account (assuming bank feed) it's a matter of checking the 'explanation' you gave for each transaction.


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## lazythursday (Apr 25, 2022)

AnnaKarpik said:


> You should be able to get Freeagent cheaper through an accountant or bookkeeper if you can find one prepared to pass on the discount they get. As for the incorrect balances, as long as you haven't been putting manual entries through the bank account (assuming bank feed) it's a matter of checking the 'explanation' you gave for each transaction.


It's complicated, over the years some of it has been bank feeds and some manual entry, because for a while my bank feed failed. The problem dates back to the days when I used my personal account for business and freeagent never seemed to cope with that well. Anyway it's far too much of a tangled mess to fix now, I just need to start afresh.


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## pseudonarcissus (May 12, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Does anyone actually do their tax return now - right at the start of the tax year?


I posted mine today


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## friendofdorothy (May 13, 2022)

oh shit. I nearly forgot all about it - somehow had dissapeared from my everyday consciousness.  must put it back on my mental to-do-list


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## Tooter (May 17, 2022)

I quite enjoy the blind panic leaving it till mid January and the highs of getting it completed and in 🤣 

I went digital at the start of the tax year and have to say having everything on one app rather than making invoices and excel documents is amazing! I'm loving it....greatly simplifies things.


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## platinumsage (Jul 30, 2022)

HMRC really outdoing themselves today.


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## platinumsage (Aug 29, 2022)

It seems that from 2024 you'll need to subscribe to some third-party software in order to complete a tax return. 

"From 6 April 2024 the Making Tax Digital service for Income Tax Self Assessment will replace the Self Assessment tax return."


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## magneze (Aug 29, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> It seems that from 2024 you'll need to subscribe to some third-party software in order to complete a tax return.
> 
> "From 6 April 2024 the Making Tax Digital service for Income Tax Self Assessment will replace the Self Assessment tax return."


Seems to be only related to businesses?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 29, 2022)

magneze said:


> Seems to be only related to businesses?


Are not all self assessment returns for businesses? 
Just that for freelance the business is you, and what you deliver. 
I'm pretty sure I have to put my business name down (which is says can just be your own name). I also have state what my 'business' is.


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## platinumsage (Aug 29, 2022)

"We use ‘business’ in this guidance to refer to both self-employed businesses and the collection of property income by landlords."

Of course there are people who are not self-employed and have no property income who currently need to complete a self-assessment return. However they don't specify what will happen to these people when the SA return is replaced.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 29, 2022)

I don't know if I am worrying too preemptively, but this looks like an absolute clusterfuck waiting to happen. 
What is not 'digital' about the current version. 

Or

Are they simply saying that tax forms etc submitted by post will not longer be available, and making it sound more complicated by mentioning all the third party software? 

Or 

Are they doing away with the digital version that looks like the sheet they send out? 
That always seemed a bit out of date anyway. . . but it works doesn't it? Why not keep the HMRC version? The third party software will have to integrate with whatever they have on their end anyway right? 
Relatively simple for someone like me who has some very basic 'money in' and 'money out' boxes.


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## danski (Aug 29, 2022)

I know it may not be ideal/possible for everyone but for a few hundred quid, getting an accountant to do this for you is such a massive relief. 
I could not consider doing this myself at all. For me, it is worth every penny.


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## danski (Aug 29, 2022)

And its obviously tax deductible.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 29, 2022)

danski said:


> I know it may not be ideal/possible for everyone but for a few hundred quid, getting an accountant to do this for you is such a massive relief.
> I could not consider doing this myself at all. For me, it is worth every penny.


Maybe, but it's an extra ball ache for me at the moment. 
You may be able to deduct the tax, but that doesn't make it free. 
Also, from how I understand it  I would pretty much have to give an accountant exactly the same details and receipts etc that I have to do for HMRC anyway.


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## bcuster (Aug 30, 2022)

danski said:


> I know it may not be ideal/possible for everyone but for a few hundred quid, getting an accountant to do this for you is such a massive relief.
> I could not consider doing this myself at all. For me, it is worth every penny.


I agree 100 %


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## Leafster (Aug 30, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't know if I am worrying too preemptively, but this looks like an absolute clusterfuck waiting to happen.
> What is not 'digital' about the current version.
> 
> Or
> ...


The government/Treasury/HMRC think that most tax payers are incapable of typing or using a calculator accurately and, as a result, make mistakes in reporting their income and expenses. Therefore they devised Making Tax Digital (in all its forms) to try to minimise these perceived risks. The idea is that taxpayers should use software which captures the source information digitally to avoid the possibility of re-keying errors. So, in its simplest form, the software should import transactions directly from the taxpayer's bank account(s) and then the taxpayer should analyse these. Any other digital sources of data should also be linked to the software too. So, for instance, if you run a shop and record your sales on an electronic till, the reports from the till should be imported electronically to the software. 

In my opinion, most of the taxpayers I deal with have generally recorded the transactional values of the the data I've mentioned accurately regardless of the method they've used. The problem often arises with the analysis of this information. Making Tax Digital (MTD) doesn't address this problem. 

HMRC want the self-employed and landlords whose combined income is above £10,000 pa to use the new MTD for Self Assessment and therefore use MTD software. Other taxpayers, in self assessment, such as high earners and those with significant investment income will continue to submit annual Tax Returns in the same way. 

For those caught by the MTD for Self Assessment rules they'll need to submit summary information every three months from the MTD software and then a final Return to 'tidy up' the Accounts and include other sources of income etc which would have appeared on their traditional Tax Return.

So, instead of submitting one Tax Return per year, you'll have to submit five!    


ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Maybe, but it's an extra ball ache for me at the moment.
> You may be able to deduct the tax, but that doesn't make it free.
> Also, from how I understand it  I would pretty much have to give an accountant exactly the same details and receipts etc that I have to do for HMRC anyway.


The decision to use an Accountant or not has always been down to the taxpayer. MTD won't change that. Some taxpayers really don't want to spend any time keeping their books. They are what are known as Carrier Bag or Shoebox jobs to Accountants. The client puts every bit of financial paperwork in a bag or box and hands it over to the Accountant once a year. The Accountant creates the records from the papers and prepares the Accounts and Tax Return. Some taxpayers use spreadsheets or software to collate all the financial information and file all the paperwork neatly and pass this over to the Accountant. Most taxpayers fall somewhere between those two extremes. Obviously, the amount of work done by the Accountant (and therefore the size of the bill) will vary depending on the level of work done by the client and the complexity but the Accountant will always ensure that the information submitted to HMRC will be accurate, compliant with the tax legislation and that all possible claims have been made. Even if some taxpayers are good at keeping their financial records they often want the re-assurance that they've been compliant and paying the correct amount of tax and that's why they use an Accountant.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 30, 2022)

Leafster said:


> The decision to use an Accountant or not has always been down to the taxpayer. MTD won't change that. Some taxpayers really don't want to spend any time keeping their books. They are what are known as Carrier Bag or Shoebox jobs to Accountants. The client puts every bit of financial paperwork in a bag or box and hands it over to the Accountant once a year. The Accountant creates the records from the papers and prepares the Accounts and Tax Return. Some taxpayers use spreadsheets or software to collate all the financial information and file all the paperwork neatly and pass this over to the Accountant. Most taxpayers fall somewhere between those two extremes. Obviously, the amount of work done by the Accountant (and therefore the size of the bill) will vary depending on the level of work done by the client and the complexity but the Accountant will always ensure that the information submitted to HMRC will be accurate, compliant with the tax legislation and that all possible claims have been made. Even if some taxpayers are good at keeping their financial records they often want the re-assurance that they've been compliant and paying the correct amount of tax and that's why they use an Accountant.


Yes but in my case with the current system is . . . Add up all my invoices for work (which I already have on file because I had to send them off to get paid). Then add up all my expenses (almost none, but anything I bought for work that year). I scan my receipts but also keep the real ones in a filed envelope). . . this comes to a very small amount. 
I type the 'in' amount into the HMRC website and the 'out' amount in and that is almost all I have to do once a year apart from the usual form filling (which is mostly ticking 'no' for everything). 

Am I wrong to say that If I just hand my invoices and receipts over to an accountant the only thing that will change is that they input the data (in-out) rather than me? Seems a bit expensive.


But yeah, I am not looking forward to filling in five returns a year. Arrrrhhh. Tories.


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## skyscraper101 (Aug 30, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yes but in my case with the current system is . . . Add up all my invoices for work (which I already have on file because I had to send them off to get paid). Then add up all my expenses (almost none, but anything I bought for work that year). I scan my receipts but also keep the real ones in a filed envelope). . . this comes to a very small amount.
> I type the 'in' amount into the HMRC website and the 'out' amount in and that is almost all I have to do once a year apart from the usual form filling (which is mostly ticking 'no' for everything).
> 
> Am I wrong to say that If I just hand my invoices and receipts over to an accountant the only thing that will change is that they input the data (in-out) rather than me? Seems a bit expensive.



Exactly. I don't see how adding up a bunch of invoices, deducting costs and ticking a few declaration boxes on a website warrants the skills of an accountant. Unless I'm missing something glaringly obvious?


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## Leafster (Aug 30, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Am I wrong to say that If I just hand my invoices and receipts over to an accountant the only thing that will change is that they input the data (in-out) rather than me? Seems a bit expensive.


Your tax affairs may be that simple but it's very rare. 

An Accountant won't just take the two figures you've calculated and put them in the Tax Return. They will critically assess what you've given them to ensure they are accurate and complete. 

Off the top of my head they may consider the following (the list is not exhaustive):

Is the cash basis or accruals basis best for you?
Are all the expense claims valid or are there other things you could be claiming?
Does the Higher Income Child Benefit Charge apply to you?
Are there any other sources of income which need to be included in the Return - bank interest received or dividend income?
Are you getting the full tax relief on any pension contributions?
Are there any implications for other taxes from the information provided, either for this year or future years?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 30, 2022)

Leafster said:


> Your tax affairs may be that simple but it's very rare.
> 
> An Accountant won't just take the two figures you've calculated and put them in the Tax Return. They will critically assess what you've given them to ensure they are accurate and complete.
> 
> ...



Yeah, but in my case (and I can't be the only one) this is all simple(ish) stuff. I think even the Child benefit one gets worked out automatically. Obviously as you say, there is more, but this is all on the HMRC form that I fill in every year. 

I have talked to accountants and other people in my situation who use accountants, and so far have never been able to see the point.


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## skyscraper101 (Aug 30, 2022)

I did my wife's in about 45 minutes using the HMRC form. Cash in, less expenses. Click the declaration boxes (which IIRC were pretty much NO to every question because: no kids, no property ownership, no capital gains, no benefits etc). Pay the bill. Done.


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## muscovyduck (Aug 30, 2022)

Gotta use an accountant if you want a mortgage. Does feel like an increasingly large amount of the industry is bullshit work that's been regulated into existence


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## bellaozzydog (Aug 30, 2022)

If it makes anyone feel any better I got an accountants bill for 1600+600 quid this year

I’ve not managed to pay the fuckers the full wack and they are around wanting the next one


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 30, 2022)

muscovyduck said:


> Gotta use an accountant if you want a mortgage. Does feel like an increasingly large amount of the industry is bullshit work that's been regulated into existence


Do you? I thought you could just show four years of freelance records and bank details. At least that is how it was just before I went freelance. I couldn't wait to be employed for years before getting my mortgage sorted so I had to rush to buy my house before I was made redundant. I made it with only about a month to spare. 
Couldn't easily switch mortgages, (as I would have to submit new records) but luckily it was never really in my interests to.


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## Tooter (Sep 3, 2022)

I've always done my tax myself.  Similar to above I've never found it difficult.  Total all invoices in the tax period minus deductions and pay the bill.  I think most people realise they are out of their depth especially with deductions and just opt for an accountant for peace of mind which is fair enough.

The only minor problems I've had is when I've checked something I shouldn't have whilst submitting the return and it's taken me off down a rabbit hole, easily rectifiable with a quick call to HMRC though..

I probably might be able to get a bit more deductions using an accountant but it's likely offset by the fee.

I decided to go digital at the start of this tax year and I've got to say I'm loving it so far. Especially the ability to record very accurate mileage and expenses. It feels like it's going to be the most deductions I've ever made. It's so simple to keep track of what invoices are outstanding and to create them.   Yet to see what it's like come tax return time but if the reporting is anywhere near my previous setup on excel then I'm sold.

Don't really like the subscription model especially if that keeps creeping up but so far so good....


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 3, 2022)

Hopefully some solid free (on-line?) software will be pointed towards/integrated with the HMRC before I get stuck in.


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## Tooter (Jan 4, 2023)

Well it's that time again 😆 whoop whoop.....last paper year before quickbooks takes over! 💪


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## teuchter (Jan 4, 2023)

Finished mine yesterday 

So what's happening next year? We have to switch to a digital system?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 4, 2023)

I flew home from holiday yesterday so have decided that today is not the day. 
Maybe tomorrow. 

Dreading it slightly this year as one employer I had (channel 5) caused some tax code nonsense that they won't fix. I have to add notes to my return. 
It was all a big pain in the arse at the time so I am hoping I have written and left  myself extensive notes on how to deal with it in my return. . . or I will have to revisit the whole thing from scratch. 
I will be well pissed off with past me if I didn't do it.


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## Sasaferrato (Jan 4, 2023)

We used to get farmed out to SA in January to assist with SA peak.

Never heard so many grown men crying. I used to be able to do a full return in 40 minutes. The job was of course not made any easier when the on screen boxes are numbered differently to the paper form.

I also had the ability to write off penalties. Very simple process on this. If they came 'Look, yes it was late and I'm sorry, dog died etc' penalty written off. If they came on 'WTF are you sending me for? I'm not fucking paying' penalty not written off.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2023)

Oh fuck bollocks. This is looming up again.


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## Tooter (Jan 4, 2023)

teuchter said:


> Finished mine yesterday
> 
> So what's happening next year? We have to switch to a digital system?



'The digital tax system has been delayed for the self-employed and landlords for a further two years, according to a government announcement on 19 December 2022. Self Assessment tax payers were due to use Making Tax Digital from April 2024. The phased approach is now coming in from *April 2026*.'

This was meant to be the last paper one for me, I switched to a digital system already so it's too late for me to delay, I'm going to have to do it.

Not quite sure what their reasonings are for the delay to a 'phased approach' .....probably something to do with an impending clusterfuck. 😆


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## mx wcfc (Jan 4, 2023)

Tooter said:


> 'The digital tax system has been delayed for the self-employed and landlords for a further two years, according to a government announcement on 19 December 2022. Self Assessment tax payers were due to use Making Tax Digital from April 2024. The phased approach is now coming in from *April 2026*.'
> 
> This was meant to be the last paper one for me, I switched to a digital system already so it's too late for me to delay, I'm going to have to do it.
> 
> Not quite sure what their reasonings are for the delay to a 'phased approach' is.....probably something to do with an impending clusterfuck. 😆


I beleive some accountants have been testing the "Making Tax Digital" system, and yes, it's a clusterfuck.  The goverment has probably realised this, and decided they don't need to preside over another disaster.

Making Tax Digital is different from doing your tax return online though.  Most people have been doing that for years.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 5, 2023)

mx wcfc said:


> Making Tax Digital is different from doing your tax return online though.  Most people have been doing that for years.



What will it mean for people like me then? Will I have to buy my own software or get an accountant? 
I have had no information about it other than what I have seen on this thread, so I can imagine it would have been a bit of a surprise (and therefore the aforementioned clusterfuck) to quite a lot of self employed people. 

The only benefits anything could bring to me would be to simplify the current form,  make more of it automatic, easier to understand and integrate the payment element better.


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## mx wcfc (Jan 5, 2023)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What will it mean for people like me then? Will I have to buy my own software or get an accountant?
> I have had no information about it other than what I have seen on this thread, so I can imagine it would have been a bit of a surprise (and therefore the aforementioned clusterfuck) to quite a lot of self employed people.
> 
> The only benefits anything could bring to me would be to simplify the current form,  make more of it automatic, easier to understand and integrate the payment element better.


I honestly don’t know. The way it’s going you won’t have to worry about it for a while.


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## billy_bob (Jan 5, 2023)

IME when the govt says it's delayed the implementation of something like this, it's very rare it doesn't mean the change turned out to be utterly unworkable. I'll be surprised if this isn't the equivalent of sweeping it under the sofa and walking away whistling. If it does come back, I bet it looks completely different.


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## bellaozzydog (Jan 5, 2023)

I sent my stuff off to accountants mid November I’ve heard fuck all back yet, slightly worried as the accountant who has done my books for 18 years retired and I don’t think she has handed over
1. How shit I am at tax returns 
2. How complicated my tax is (apparently)
3. The fact I still owe them a big bill from last year 

I’m teetering on the edge of liquidity as it is a big tax bill on top of everything else will sink me


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## Leafster (Jan 5, 2023)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What will it mean for people like me then? Will I have to buy my own software or get an accountant?
> I have had no information about it other than what I have seen on this thread, so I can imagine it would have been a bit of a surprise (and therefore the aforementioned clusterfuck) to quite a lot of self employed people.
> 
> The only benefits anything could bring to me would be to simplify the current form,  make more of it automatic, easier to understand and integrate the payment element better.


You will need MTD compliant software of some kind. There are numerous packages out there from bridging software (which takes your data from a spreadsheet) through to fully functional bookkeeping and accounts software. You won't necessarily need an accountant.

There have been advertising campaigns across all media from both HMRC and software providers for several years. I first mentioned it on this thread back in February 2018. Admittedly the software providers have been most active as they see a massive opportunity to make money from it.

In simple terms, you will need to record your bookkeeping in electronic form from the source documentation. You will need to submit quarterly Returns to HMRC directly from within the software and then submit a final (fifth Return) to add in any year end adjustments for your accounts. The fifth Return will also include other tax related information which isn't part of your self-employment/rental income such as bank interest, dividends etc.


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## Leafster (Jan 5, 2023)

billy_bob said:


> IME when the govt says it's delayed the implementation of something like this, it's very rare it doesn't mean the change turned out to be utterly unworkable. I'll be surprised if this isn't the equivalent of sweeping it under the sofa and walking away whistling. If it does come back, I bet it looks completely different.


There were problems when they introduced MTD for VAT. So many, they had to delay mandatory introduction of it. Although VAT itself can be a very complicated tax, the information submitted via the VAT Returns is very basic so creating a new system to capture the Return information shouldn't have been too complex. However, with Income Tax there are far more variables to consider. 

I think it will get introduced but it's interesting that they've delayed the introduction until after the next election.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 5, 2023)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What will it mean for people like me then? Will I have to buy my own software or get an accountant?
> I have had no information about it other than what I have seen on this thread, so I can imagine it would have been a bit of a surprise (and therefore the aforementioned clusterfuck) to quite a lot of self employed people.
> 
> The only benefits anything could bring to me would be to simplify the current form,  make more of it automatic, easier to understand and integrate the payment element better.


Me too, I've only heard about it here too.

 I've used an accountant for years because I was scared of doing my own  return online or otherwise.  Now I don't have much income I had hoped to do the online return without an accountant next year. But MTD sounds like the stuff of nightmares!

I'm not good with 'apps', sharing files online and don't have a smart phone. Only a laptop, a really shit scanner and an old version of Excel. Like many older people from a less techie century I dread have to buy and learn any new software.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 5, 2023)

Leafster said:


> You will need MTD compliant software of some kind. There are numerous packages out there from bridging software (which takes your data from a spreadsheet) through to fully functional bookkeeping and accounts software. You won't necessarily need an accountant.
> 
> There have been advertising campaigns across all media from both HMRC and software providers for several years. I first mentioned it on this thread back in February 2018. Admittedly the software providers have been most active as they see a massive opportunity to make money from it.
> 
> In simple terms, you will need to record your bookkeeping in electronic form from the source documentation. You will need to submit quarterly Returns to HMRC directly from within the software and then submit a final (fifth Return) to add in any year end adjustments for your accounts. The fifth Return will also include other tax related information which isn't part of your self-employment/rental income such as bank interest, dividends etc.


Not seen much advertising.  The very idea scares the shit out of me! Sounds like a huge learning curve, and expensive.

 Is anyone running courses to teach this stuff?


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 5, 2023)

Tooter said:


> 'The digital tax system has been delayed for the self-employed and landlords for a further two years, according to a government announcement on 19 December 2022. Self Assessment tax payers were due to use Making Tax Digital from April 2024. The phased approach is now coming in from *April 2026*.'


Phew!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 5, 2023)

I hope it's been put back because they didn't think it through. It's a complete pain in the arse for freelancers like me and friendofdorothy. 
My taxes are usually fairly simple, I don't need an accountant to type in the amounts on the bottom of six invoices. Last time I looked into the digital thing (prompted by this thread) it seemed like I had to research what software to use and there was no guarantee that any of it would integrate correctly. If they are going to do this they really need a basic platform that the HMRC provide and it probably needs to be cloud based? I'm fine with storing files on my computers, but if I need a future proof app that I need to purchase myself and learn, to to commit to relinquishing all my control to an accountant I think it's going to bugger me up.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 5, 2023)

Leafster said:


> You will need MTD compliant software of some kind. There are numerous packages out there from bridging software (which takes your data from a spreadsheet) through to fully functional bookkeeping and accounts software. You won't necessarily need an accountant.


The first sentence is already making this a pain in the arse. I don't know what MTD means. I don't have spreadsheets, never had. I don't know what bridging software is and I would imaging book keeping software will be overkill. . . as will the need for an accountant. 

I get about six jobs a year of various lengths. I invoice for them all and keep the records, but for the purposes of submitting my returns I just add them all up and submit the total to HMRC. My expenses are minimal, but I just keep a record of them and take that away from the total. 
Any sofware, spreadsheets etc (and submitting five flipping returns a year???) seems like overkill. 



Leafster said:


> There have been advertising campaigns across all media from both HMRC and software providers for several years.


If there has been then I have not seen it. If it was something that was supposed to be implemented this year then they have done a pretty bad job at getting the info out. . . . or I would know about it. 



Leafster said:


> In simple terms, you will need to record your bookkeeping in electronic form from the source documentation.


I don't even know what this actually means. Just type in the amount I earned into the software? 


Leafster said:


> You will need to submit quarterly Returns to HMRC directly from within the software and then submit a final (fifth Return) to add in any year end adjustments for your accounts. The fifth Return will also include other tax related information which isn't part of your self-employment/rental income such as bank interest, dividends etc.


Personally for me this sounds like it is just going to be a massive load of extra time consuming stuff for me to learn and do.  Hopefully whatever software is eventually recommended talks me through this in a very simple fashion.  . . . the biggest problem for me at the moment is simply that I am absolutely clueless about it. This thread is all I have heard. . . so for that fact alone, I can only imagine it would have been an absolute disaster had it started this year.


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## Leafster (Jan 5, 2023)

friendofdorothy said:


> Not seen much advertising.  The very idea scares the shit out of me! Sounds like a huge learning curve, and expensive.
> 
> Is anyone running courses to teach this stuff?


I guess, being an Accountant, I have noticed the advertising more than most. When they were planning on introducing Making Tax Digital for VAT I got fed up with seeing and hearing adverts for it everywhere - TV, radio and even bus stops! Whilst typing this post there has been an advert on the radio from Intuit (Quickbooks) about the benefit of using their software for Making Tax Digital for VAT and self-assessment.

The software providers have slowly modified the campaigns to include Making Tax Digital for Income Tax and possibly, if people originally 'tuned out' from noticing the adverts as they originally related to VAT, they haven't noticed the subtle changes.



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The first sentence is already making this a pain in the arse. I don't know what MTD means. I don't have spreadsheets, never had. I don't know what bridging software is and I would imaging book keeping software will be overkill. . . as will the need for an accountant.
> 
> I get about six jobs a year of various lengths. I invoice for them all and keep the records, but for the purposes of submitting my returns I just add them all up and submit the total to HMRC. My expenses are minimal, but I just keep a record of them and take that away from the total.
> Any sofware, spreadsheets etc (and submitting five flipping returns a year???) seems like overkill.
> ...


MTD is short for Making Tax Digital. As I've said elsewhere HMRC don't trust tax payers to use calculators or transcribe figures from one piece of paper to another or to copy these onto a webpage. They want to digitise the whole process so that, as they see it, less mistakes are made.

Bridging software is software that takes information from one electronic form (a spreadsheet, bookkeeping software, etc.) and converts it into a form which is compatible with HMRC's needs. The bridging software then transmits this information over the internet to an electronic gateway set up by HMRC.

Most of the major players in the bookkeeping software market (Sage, Xero, Intuit (Quickbooks) etc., have incorporated routines within their software to transmit this information to HMRC directly rather than needing additional bridging software. 

Keeping your data in electronic form just means that you have to record each individual transaction (a payment, a receipt, a sales invoice, a purchase invoice etc.) separately in a spreadsheet or bookkeeping software. It's HMRC's misguided belief that everyone who is self-employed or a landlord has a dedicated bank account they use and therefore all the transactions in that account in a year represent their income and expenditure. I certainly deal with self-employed traders and landlords who don't have dedicated bank accounts. But the idea is that all the transactions from the dedicated bank account are the basis for creating the information to be submitted to HMRC via Making Tax Digital.

Just to clarify, Making Tax Digital doesn't mean HMRC will see every transaction. What it means is that the MTD compliant software summarises the individual transactions to produce the figures which you would have entered via your HMRC tax account.  

It is a big change for many taxpayers. Those already using software or an accountant will have less to learn but anyone who hasn't will have a steeper learning curve. One of the issues is that HMRC has effectively privatised the production and submission of this information to them by saying everyone must use MTD compliant software of some sort and not enter it via their tax account.

Taxpayers will be reliant on the support of the software companies (or their accountants) to help them enter the information. I've used Xero and FreeAgent for Making Tax Digital for VAT and the online tutorials weren't bad although, as an accountant I (hopefully!) have a better grasp of the underlying concepts. It's effectively the same software that has been modified for MTD for VAT which will be further modified to cope with MTD for Income Tax.

Another thing I should add is that the original rules stated that any self-employed trader or landlord with a turnover of more than £10,000 would need to comply with MTD for Income Tax but as part of the announcement delaying the introduction they've also increased the thresholds so that any self-employed trader or landlord with income of more than £50,000 will need to comply with MTD for Income Tax from April 2026 and those with income of more than £30,000 will need to comply with MTD for Income Tax from April 2027. Perhaps it will apply to those below these thresholds at a later date.

So, for smaller earners there's no need to panic as there's plenty of time start planning and it's possible that for those with a turnover less than that £10,000 it might never apply.


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## Chilli.s (Jan 5, 2023)

This digital idea from hmrc, im assuming it will make all my computer and internet expenses into a running cost that will be born by my pathetic self employed business?


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## Leafster (Jan 5, 2023)

Chilli.s said:


> This digital idea from hmrc, im assuming it will make all my computer and internet expenses into a running cost that will be born by my pathetic self employed business?


There's certainly a stronger argument to say a bigger proportion of those costs relate to your business and should therefore be deducted from your profit!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 5, 2023)

Leafster said:


> I guess, being an Accountant, I have noticed the advertising more than most. When they were planning on introducing Making Tax Digital for VAT I got fed up with seeing and hearing adverts for it everywhere - TV, radio and even bus stops! Whilst typing this post there has been an advert on the radio from Intuit (Quickbooks) about the benefit of using their software for Making Tax Digital for VAT and self-assessment.


I've not heard a peep. I don't listen to the radio and rarely watch tv. I would have thought that the HMRC would have been in touch for such a radical change. 

It's so irritating. I simply don't need the hassle of learning and filling out a spread sheet five times a year.


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## teuchter (Jan 5, 2023)

Like ATOMIC SUPLEX I'm self employed and my income & expenses are relatively simple. And so far have got away with not paying an accountant to do my returns.

But I wouldn't necessarily mind being forced to do things in a more integrated way, if it worked and didn't require the purchase of expensive software.

At the moment I do invoices using my own home-made spreadsheets.

Then I do very basic "accounts" on another spreadsheet.

Then I use that info to fill in the tax return.

Numbers are transferred manually between each of those three steps.

It would save a lot of manual tedium if I had one software that generated invoices, and formatted accounts, and just shoved the relevant info straight to my tax return.

Problem for small self employed operations is that you often find software is designed for and priced for bigger companies, who have more complex needs and can spread the cost over multiple people.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 5, 2023)

My other worry is that work has REALLY slowed down for me since a post covid boom. I really won't be able to justify an accountant. Because of the teuchter  post above I've realised I don't even put down all my invoices and expenses together on anything much more than a hand written sum on bit of paper. I just keep a load of dated invoice folders on file.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 5, 2023)

teuchter said:


> Like ATOMIC SUPLEX I'm self employed and my income & expenses are relatively simple. And so far have got away with not paying an accountant to do my returns.
> 
> But I wouldn't necessarily mind being forced to do things in a more integrated way, if it worked and didn't require the purchase of expensive software.
> 
> ...



Yeah when I was freelancing most packages seemed way more complex then I wanted or needed for someone who basically sold their labour by the day and has some expenses.

My spreadsheets were pretty basic, but worked.


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## frogwoman (Jan 5, 2023)

mx wcfc said:


> I beleive some accountants have been testing the "Making Tax Digital" system, and yes, it's a clusterfuck.  The goverment has probably realised this, and decided they don't need to preside over another disaster.
> 
> Making Tax Digital is different from doing your tax return online though.  Most people have been doing that for years.


I have to submit a paper tax return as my account won't let me log in due to having a previous account with them which doesn't work and it always messing up the passwords. Their website doesn't work at all


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 5, 2023)

How is it not digital already though? Everything I do is via the HMRC website? There's no 'paper' involved?


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## Leafster (Jan 5, 2023)

skyscraper101 said:


> How is it not digital already though? Everything I do is via the HMRC website? There's no 'paper' involved?


The intention is for the whole process from capturing the data in your bookkeeping software through to submission of the final results to be digital with very little human intervention.

At the moment, you could keep a carrier bag of paperwork and then summarise all this on the back of a couple of envelopes, add up the totals and then input those summarised results onto HMRC's website. HMRC don't like that as they think it's prone to errors. The reality is that if you've just got 12 sales invoices and a handful of expenses you're just as likely to end up with the right result as if you had software you paid £50 a month for.

However, if you've raised hundreds sales invoices in the year and have hundreds of expense invoices and you're VAT registered, you're probably best using software to keep track of it all properly.

The idea is to capture the data as soon as it's created so;

you'd create your sales invoices in the MTD compliant software. Or in the case of retail sales, you'd link your till system to the MTD compliant software so it automatically transfers the figures
you'd link your bank account to the MTD compliant software so it automatically imported each transaction
you'd match the sales invoices to the transactions imported from your bank account
you'd match your expense receipts to the transactions imported from your bank account
The software does all the adding up and there's no need to transfer any numbers manually from a piece of paper or another software package into the data which forms the submission to HMRC. As HMRC see it, this minimises the risk of errors. However, it doesn't deal with errors where a trader accidentally analyses something incorrectly or includes something which isn't a business expense or treats income as not taxable. It also doesn't take into account that the software and electronic links to other data sources can fail. For instance, the process of obtaining the bank transactions, known as a bank feed, can fail to import some transactions or report some transactions twice. It would be up to the trader to be vigilant enough to review this and correct the mistakes.

In theory it could work perfectly but in practice there's always a few problems. 

I would say that some of the software out there does a very good job and as an accountant I've found Xero to be my preferred software. It works well, has good online support, is well featured and does save me time dealing with clients' bookkeeping. My clients seem to like it too. However, at its cheapest, it's £14 plus VAT per month to non-accountants.

I have also used FreeAgent. It's not as good but for those who have their primary bank account with NatWest, RBS, Ulster Bank or Mettle it is free! For everyone else the cheapest version for non-accountants is £19 plus VAT per month. If you have to pay that then I'd choose Xero.

Both Xero and FreeAgent are cloud-based solutions.

In the past I have experience of using Quickbooks desktop software. But, in my opinion, it's too easy to make mistakes. At least, that's what I've found reviewing the data from clients who've used Quickbooks. Their online product Quickbooks Self-Employed is just crap so avoid it. Their more feature-rich online products maybe better but I haven't tried them and are more expensive.

I've not taken part in HMRC's pilot scheme for MTD for Income Tax so don't have any experience of using the software for that but all three of them claim to be MTD for Income Tax compliant.

There are plenty of other software providers which are supposedly MTD for Income Tax compliant including Sage but I haven't had time to try them out so can't comment.

Having said all that, the deadline for needing to be MTD for Income Tax compliant is still some time away and there's plenty of time for other software suppliers to produce useful and cheaper alternatives.

ETA: with most of the software available you can try it out for free for a while so I'd suggest trying out two or three packages to see which one suits you. For instance, one client chose Quickbooks SE as it had a built in car mileage calculator and that was important to them.


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## frogwoman (Jan 5, 2023)

I can't log in to the website, have never been able to since having to make another self employment registration several years ago and it always giving me the wrong passwords etc. I therefore had to pay over the phone and file a paper return


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## Leafster (Jan 5, 2023)

frogwoman said:


> I can't log in to the website, have never been able to since having to make another self employment registration several years ago and it always giving me the wrong passwords etc. I therefore had to pay over the phone and file a paper return


Sorry to hear this. I can't say I've ever had to help a client with something like you're experiencing. It sounds as though they didn't reactivate your old account. Did you get a different Unique Taxpayer Reference when you re-registered? 

I'd suggest collating all the information you have from both registrations and calling HMRC's Technical Support Helpline to explain the problem. Be prepared for a long wait though, especially this time of year. 






						Technical support with HMRC online services
					

Contact HMRC with technical problems when using HMRC systems, sending forms online, error messages and using HMRC free software and tools




					www.gov.uk


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## frogwoman (Jan 5, 2023)

Leafster said:


> Sorry to hear this. I can't say I've ever had to help a client with something like you're experiencing. It sounds as though they didn't reactivate your old account. Did you get a different Unique Taxpayer Reference when you re-registered?
> 
> I'd suggest collating all the information you have from both registrations and calling HMRC's Technical Support Helpline to explain the problem. Be prepared for a long wait though, especially this time of year.
> 
> ...


When i request a new password it sends it to me but then just says the password is incorrect and locks me out. I can't log in at all, although I can to student loan stuff.


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## frogwoman (Jan 5, 2023)

No they didn't reactivate it


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## prunus (Jan 5, 2023)

Leafster said:


> The intention is for the whole process from capturing the data in your bookkeeping software through to submission of the final results to be digital with very little human intervention.
> 
> At the moment, you could keep a carrier bag of paperwork and then summarise all this on the back of a couple of envelopes, add up the totals and then input those summarised results onto HMRC's website. HMRC don't like that as they think it's prone to errors. The reality is that if you've just got 12 sales invoices and a handful of expenses you're just as likely to end up with the right result as if you had software you paid £50 a month for.
> 
> ...



Thanks, that’s a very helpful summary of the intent and process. Regarding the import of bank accounts for reconciliation, any idea about cash?  I still get some small jobs paid in cash, and pay for some expenses with it. There isn’t going to be a requirement to deposit everything in the bank is there…?


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## Leafster (Jan 5, 2023)

frogwoman said:


> When i request a new password it sends it to me but then just says the password is incorrect and locks me out. I can't log in at all, although I can to student loan stuff.


Hmmm, do you have more than one Government Gateway IDs? 

For various reasons I have several and each one needs a separate password. Only one was to access my HMRC tax account. I seem to remember there was a time where I couldn't log in after I'd accessed a different service via one of the other Government Gateway IDs. I had to clear the cookies on my PC and then it would let me log into the correct service. I don't seem to have that problem now but maybe check the Gateway ID you're using and clear the cookies and see if that lets you log in. 

Otherwise, try phoning the helpline number in the link I provided and explain the problem to a person. They may be able to talk you through it so you can access the correct account.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 5, 2023)

thank you Leafster  your explaination has really been helpful.  I have seen ads for quickbooks and other software - but that doesnt explain make tax digital.



> Both Xero and FreeAgent are cloud-based solutions.



this is the bit I have trouble with - getting my head around cloud based things at all. 

Govt wants us all to work till we die - but how are us older people supposed to learn all this tech shit? The amount of stuff that the govt want everyone to do online completely ignores that older / poorer / less literate people simply can't.  Where is the tuition, where is the support? where are the step by step govt info booklets?


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## Leafster (Jan 5, 2023)

prunus said:


> Thanks, that’s a very helpful summary of the intent and process. Regarding the import of bank accounts for reconciliation, any idea about cash?  I still get some small jobs paid in cash, and pay for some expenses with it. There isn’t going to be a requirement to deposit everything in the bank is there…?


I would say that HMRC would want you to bank your cash takings in full and pay all your expenses from your bank account but that's not always going to happen!  

There are ways around this but they possibly aren't fully compliant with the principles of MTD.

This is how I get around it with Xero. It may be possible with the other software too.

Create a 'bank account' in Xero for 'cash' transactions.
Using the csv template to import bank transactions when you don't use the bank feeds, populate* this with the cash transactions.
Upload this to the Xero 'Cash' bank account.
Then analyse the 'cash' bank account by matching it to your sales invoices and expense receipts  as you would for a normal bank account. 

* by populate I mean type the transactions manually into the csv template. See, it isn't exactly compliant with the concepts of MTD but sometimes has to be done!


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## frogwoman (Jan 5, 2023)

Thanks, I will try and get back in but will follow your advice.


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## prunus (Jan 5, 2023)

Leafster said:


> I would say that HMRC would want you to bank your cash takings in full and pay all your expenses from your bank account but that's not always going to happen!
> 
> There are ways around this but they possibly aren't fully compliant with the principles of MTD.
> 
> ...



Perfect, thanks.


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## Leafster (Jan 5, 2023)

friendofdorothy said:


> thank you Leafster  your explanation has really been helpful.  I have seen ads for quickbooks and other software - but that doesnt explain make tax digital.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Think back to when you had dumb computer terminals in offices. They looks like computers but were all connected to a mainframe or mini-computer in the computer room somewhere else. Cloud-based software effectively replicates this by treating your PC, laptop or tablet as an old-fashioned dumb terminal. You type on it but all the software and data is resident on the software suppliers servers instead of on your PC etc.

I agree, the government have effectively transferred all responsibility onto the individual to learn how do things online and won't be providing proper support or viable alternatives * for those who aren't tech savvy. 

The government have webpages on Making Tax Digital but since they are effectively requiring the tax payer to use software (or at the very least, a spreadsheet) they are washing their hands of any responsibility to teach the taxpayer how to use it as that's down to the software provider.

* there are or were exemptions from having to comply with MTD for VAT but they only cover religious communities who don't use computers, businesses who operate where there is no viable internet and possibly the extremely old. I don't think that last one has been properly defined and I doubt anyone who posts on here would be able to say they were too old to use a computer.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 5, 2023)

Leafster said:


> Think back to when you had dumb computer terminals in offices. They looks like computers but were all connected to a mainframe or mini-computer in the computer room somewhere else. Cloud-based software effectively replicates this by treating your PC, laptop or tablet as an old-fashioned dumb terminal. You type on it but all the software and data is resident on the software suppliers servers instead of on your PC etc.
> 
> I agree, the government have effectively transferred all responsibility onto the individual to learn how do things online and won't be providing proper support or viable alternatives * for those who aren't tech savvy.
> 
> ...


I understand the principle of the cloud just struggle with the practicalities.

 Fucking govt.


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## iamwithnail (Jan 5, 2023)

Very pleased to discover that I’ve way over budgeted for how much tax I needed to pay. Had figured out it’d be a grand difference with the self employed stuff on top of PAYE but having plugged it all in and checked it twice with the accountant, tax is about £100. Excellent.

Eta: I’ve been trying to get to this point rather than scrabbling around trying to pull together cash which is the normal thing cause I’ve under estimated the tax.


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## frogwoman (Jan 5, 2023)

I'm dreading it going online only because I cant get into the website at all and when I enter my details including passport etc it says it doesnt recognise my identity.


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## Elpenor (Jan 6, 2023)

I hadn’t realised how big the changes for MTD were going to be, and the impact on the self-employed - it seems to be the equivalent of RTI for PAYE which was a huge change for the payroll industry. 

Good luck everyone!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2023)

Leafster said:


> The intention is for the whole process from capturing the data in your bookkeeping software through to submission of the final results to be digital with very little human intervention.
> 
> At the moment, you could keep a carrier bag of paperwork and then summarise all this on the back of a couple of envelopes, add up the totals and then input those summarised results onto HMRC's website. HMRC don't like that as they think it's prone to errors. The reality is that if you've just got 12 sales invoices and a handful of expenses you're just as likely to end up with the right result as if you had software you paid £50 a month for.


This is me. . . except all my invoices and expenses only exist in the digital realm rather than on paper. Probably only six invoices to add up and five or six expenses to take away. 
I'm going to be pretty fucked off if I have to pay £20 to wade through some software four times a year just to punch those numbers in. 

I agree that this probably great for bigger businesses, but won't they have been working on systems like this already? 
Surely they need to figure something different for smaller one man self employed operations like myself? 
I have no problem in adding invoices to a HMRC cloud as they come and hitting a 'go' button four times a year.


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## nick (Jan 6, 2023)

To give a slightly more positive spin. I have finally girded my loins to log in to my personal HMRC ID.   Pleased to see that the web site is again an improvement on previous years: in one place I can now access my NI / Pension history, review and request changed to my PAYE coding as well as (not today though) do my Tax return.

FWIW I am adopting a wait and see policy on MTD. 
I am an accountant, but in fields far related from tax, so my knowledge is based on my professional exams decades ago plus corporate experience in my early career.
All of my tax activities (personal tax, my company when I was outside IR35, treasurer of a charity with a few hundred k annual income ) are performed on good old Excel: It does what I want and no more, I can use my background to make sure it is robust and balances (double entry rocks baby). I also use the same sheets to prepare annual accounts for Charity com / Companies House etc.

I am (perhaps incorrectly) going to assume that I will not be forced to buy any further software, but in time there will be bridge solutions to feed Excel into MTD returns - albeit they may need a level of technical knowledge.

In many respects I am in the same boat as Atomic suplex: I have no need/interest in adopting a dedicated accounting package


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## teuchter (Jan 6, 2023)

If the concern is that people don't add up their invoices & expenses properly, I don't see why it can't simply be added to the existing tax return forms you currently fill out. That is, instead of typing a total into a box, you put in all the individual invoices, and the forms add it up. Doesn't seem like anything complicated to program.

There's already (optionally) something like this for bank interest I think - you type in amounts for each of your accounts and it adds it up (although I've got a feeling it doesn't then automatically put the total into the relevant bit of the form).


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## Leafster (Jan 6, 2023)

Elpenor said:


> I hadn’t realised how big the changes for MTD were going to be, and the impact on the self-employed - it seems to be the equivalent of RTI for PAYE which was a huge change for the payroll industry.
> 
> Good luck everyone!


As an accountant in practice I had to deal with RTI for PAYE for my clients, Pension Auto-enrolment, MTD for VAT and now it's MTD for Income Tax.


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## Leafster (Jan 6, 2023)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> This is me. . . except all my invoices and expenses only exist in the digital realm rather than on paper. Probably only six invoices to add up and five or six expenses to take away.
> I'm going to be pretty fucked off if I have to pay £20 to wade through some software four times a year just to punch those numbers in.
> 
> I agree that this probably great for bigger businesses, but won't they have been working on systems like this already?
> ...


You're right, slightly larger businesses run by the self-employed probably already use this sort of software. If they are VAT registered they will have had to be MTD compliant for VAT for some time which is why I am familiar with the likes of Xero and FreeAgent. For most of them, the cost of the software, whilst unwelcome isn't too costly. This type of software has slowly evolved so that it is (or will be) compliant with MTD for Income Tax. As a result, traders already using compliant software won't see too many changes. They will have to get their heads around the quarterly reporting aspect and possibly doing adjustments to the figures every quarter rather than once a year. But, they won't have the steep learning curve with a complete change in the methods they use to record their business activities. 

As I've said, the software packages I use do have a cut-price version for freelancers but even this isn't considered cheap by everyone. I have to say, some of my younger clients automatically think of using software to maintain their bookkeeping, bill their clients etc. so for them, they don't think twice about the monthly fees. 

There are other options out there including using spreadsheets and bridging software (as nick  mentioned) but, for my clients, we've either needed something more or haven't needed to address MTD for Income Tax as it hasn't been made compulsory. With HMRC kicking the can down the road even further, I haven't yet needed to investigate these options. 

Another thing to consider for those who use an accountant is that the old 'carrier bag job' or its digital equivalent of a zip file containing all the documents electronically does take longer to work through as opposed to a well kept set of records on software so there's often a trade off between paying for the software and a lower accountancy bill.


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## Leafster (Jan 6, 2023)

nick said:


> FWIW I am adopting a wait and see policy on MTD.


I think that's a wise decision. Software providers including those producing bridging software are all jostling for position at the moment. Just looking at the software providers I have experience with they keep changing their offerings and pricing so who's to say what will be best when MTD for Income Tax is finally mandated. 

If you have other reasons for using software then go ahead and make the decision now, if not, just put it off until closer to the MTD of Income Tax introduction.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 6, 2023)

My partner had a nightmare with Xero's support when she was having problems. But then I support clients with Quick Books at work and can't say they are much better.


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## Leafster (Jan 6, 2023)

teuchter said:


> If the concern is that people don't add up their invoices & expenses properly, I don't see why it can't simply be added to the existing tax return forms you currently fill out. That is, instead of typing a total into a box, you put in all the individual invoices, and the forms add it up. Doesn't seem like anything complicated to program.
> 
> There's already (optionally) something like this for bank interest I think - you type in amounts for each of your accounts and it adds it up (although I've got a feeling it doesn't then automatically put the total into the relevant bit of the form).


From a tax advisor's point of view, you don't want to give any more information than is necessary to HMRC as it will only confuse them. 

From HMRC's software developer's point of view, any changes risk their systems falling over as they haven't really been funded properly or designed coherently. It's a struggle to keep all their existing separate systems talking to each other * and adding other functionality will only make it worse. 

* Anyone with experience of RTI for PAYE will know that the data HMRC's officers see on their systems isn't always consistent with what the employer sees on their HMRC account and that isn't always consistent with what their advisor sees from their agent's account! Effectively, there are three different systems which pull data through at different times so it's rare for them all to agree.


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## Leafster (Jan 6, 2023)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> My partner had a nightmare with Xero's support when she was having problems. But then I support clients with Quick Books at work and can't say they are much better.


Sadly, Xero support isn't as good as it used to be but like you say the other providers aren't much better. 

I can usually sort out any problems with Xero for my clients although I recently had a problem which took a long while to resolve. It involved MTD for VAT. HMRC kept blaming Xero and Xero kept telling me the software was working properly. Eventually, after many hours of phone calls to HMRC and support messages with Xero we got to the bottom of it. Someone at HMRC had deleted a submission manually which they shouldn't have done and that was the cause of the problem.


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## AnnaKarpik (Jan 6, 2023)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What will it mean for people like me then? Will I have to buy my own software or get an accountant?
> I have had no information about it other than what I have seen on this thread, so I can imagine it would have been a bit of a surprise (and therefore the aforementioned clusterfuck) to quite a lot of self employed people.
> 
> The only benefits anything could bring to me would be to simplify the current form,  make more of it automatic, easier to understand and integrate the payment element better.


VAT has already gone over to MTD and for that a few bridging software options came out. They cost money - naturally - but about as much as a low end bookkeeping subscription. In effect, you put your numbers into a spreadsheet, upload it into the software and send it off and it wafts away to HMRC.


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## nick (Jan 6, 2023)

What is the likelihood that HMRC will produce some sort of spreadsheet template for MTD submission?

As of today, if you are doing a gift aid reclaim, the claim form is a  spreadsheet (.ODS Open format I think:meaning most / all spreadsheet programmes can use it), with an associated, very strict, instruction set on the way in which the data should be entered, and lots of cell/ data protection and validation


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2023)

AnnaKarpik said:


> VAT has already gone over to MTD and for that a few bridging software options came out. They cost money - naturally - but about as much as a low end bookkeeping subscription. In effect, you put your numbers into a spreadsheet, upload it into the software and send it off and it wafts away to HMRC.


I'm hoping they will come out with something free? 
Even a low end bookkeeping subscription is overkill for my returns needs. Even now I can supply a detailed breakdown of each invoice / expense on the submitted HMRC form if I want to, but I don't need to. 
It's just really really annoying. Extra work, extra cost, no benefit. 
I guess I have a couple more years before I worry about it. . . . workwise, there is probably more I should be concerned with.


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## billy_bob (Jan 6, 2023)

Are we on some kind of standing order to Leafster btw? I can't remember signing up to anything - but then, if I was more financially efficient I wouldn't have started this thread in the first place so it's possible I did so without reading the small print...


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## Tooter (Jan 6, 2023)

Leafster said:


> Their online product Quickbooks Self-Employedi s just crap so avoid it.



😆😱 That's what I use 

I used to do all invoices In word, keep invoices in month and year folders with an excel document summary and then go through my statements and work out the expenses etc before inputting the data into self assessment gateway. 

I have to say to most of the people panicking about using MTD compliant software, for me it has simplified the process greatly, just doing everything from creating invoices and marking expenses in real time is much easier and I'm sure more accurate. Not much to worry about, there are plenty of online training, workshops and documentation to help you pick it up.  It's definitely worth watching some YouTube videos on your chosen software before jumping into it in April if you choose to do so. 

I have noticed that not all transactions sync properly from my bank, the majority is there, I presume this will get better over time.  I started using it last April so come next tax return I'm hoping it will be much easier to submit everything. 😁

Regarding the submitting data multiple times over the tax year I presume this is linked automatically in the software Leafster or do you have to manually do it?


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## Leafster (Jan 6, 2023)

billy_bob said:


> Are we on some kind of standing order to Leafster btw? I can't remember signing up to anything - but then, if I was more financially efficient I wouldn't have started this thread in the first place so it's possible I did so without reading the small print...


Just pay a little extra into the server fund.


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## Leafster (Jan 6, 2023)

Tooter said:


> 😆😱 That's what I use
> 
> I used to do all invoices In word, keep invoices in month and year folders with an excel document summary and then go through my statements and work out the expenses etc before inputting the data into self assessment gateway.
> 
> ...


QB SE may work for you OK but it was somewhat limited for what my clients needed. 

If you have any volume of transactions to deal with then software is definitely the way to go. Today I've been using Xero for a client's VAT Return. With the help of their AI software I've analysed around 200 purchase invoices, analysed around 250 bank transactions. I need some more info from the client but I should have incorporated 90 days worth of analysed daily takings and matched a further 100 bank transactions. All done in about 5 hours. 

With the quarterly submissions I suspect they'll be much like the VAT Returns. After you've processed everything for the quarter, you review it and then press a button to submit the summary information to HMRC.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2023)

Tooter said:


> I have to say to most of the people panicking about using MTD compliant software, for me it has simplified the process greatly,


Sounds good


Tooter said:


> Not much to worry about, there are plenty of online training, workshops and documentation to help you pick it up.  It's definitely worth watching some YouTube videos on your chosen software before jumping into it in April if you choose to do so.


Oh no wait. Now it sounds like a lot more work. I literally had to add up about six invoices and submit the total. Now I have to find some software, pay for it and do on line tutorials???


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## Tooter (Jan 6, 2023)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Sounds good
> 
> Oh no wait. Now it sounds like a lot more work. I literally had to add up about six invoices and submit the total. Now I have to find some software, pay for it and do on line tutorials???



As has been said it depends on your situation if it will work for you, for six invoices a year maybe it's not necessary.  Similarly if you don't want to learn anything about it then don't bother... 

I do 5-15 invoices a month to various clients only now rather than dicking around with word/excel I create them in the app on my phone/edit a previous one and just mark when they are paid. It handily tells me when invoices are overdue and can send automatic reminders. 

On my bank transactions I swipe left for a business expense which is automatically put in the right deductions category or right for personal expense.  I can store photos of receipts or invoices to individual transactions. 

When I drive somewhere for work I can automatically review every trip via GPS on my phone or enter a start and end location and it very accurately records the mileage. 

With a little bit of learning, I have just found it much easier than previously, won't be the same for everyone I'm sure.


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## Tooter (Jan 6, 2023)

Edit: deleted duplicate post!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Saturday at 6:13 AM)

Tooter said:


> As has been said it depends on your situation if it will work for you, for six invoices a year maybe it's not necessary.  Similarly if you don't want to learn anything about it then don't bother...


My point is that I will have to bother. We will all have to move over to these things whether I deem them necessary or not.


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## muscovyduck (Monday at 10:48 AM)

One of my mates phoning around asking for help, wants an accountant, I told them to sort this months ago, I don't even think they've registered as self employed yet. How likely is it they'll get this sorted on time?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Monday at 10:57 AM)

muscovyduck said:


> One of my mates phoning around asking for help, wants an accountant, I told them to sort this months ago, I don't even think they've registered as self employed yet. How likely is it they'll get this sorted on time?


Registering? No chance. Unless things have changed since I registered. 
As I recall you have to do it before hand, how could your friend have given the places they worked for their UTR without registering? 

It's been a while, but I seem to remember making some sort of mistake when I first became self employed. I had to do a few things retrospectively. I think I might have been fined £100 or maybe just had to pay the interest I owed. HMRC were quite good about it. I think there are a lot less staff these days though, and especially this time of year.


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## muscovyduck (Monday at 11:21 AM)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Registering? No chance. Unless things have changed since I registered.
> As I recall you have to do it before hand, how could your friend have given the places they worked for their UTR without registering?
> 
> It's been a while, but I seem to remember making some sort of mistake when I first became self employed. I had to do a few things retrospectively. I think I might have been fined £100 or maybe just had to pay the interest I owed. HMRC were quite good about it. I think there are a lot less staff these days though, and especially this time of year.


I don't think they've registered but this is what I feared. They're panicking a lot which makes it more difficult to sort out (as well as why they've left it this late to sort out). 

I suppose they should register, get their paperwork together, then get to an accountant to sort it out from there and do the retroactive stuff?


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## nick (Monday at 12:00 PM)

Not a tax adviser but..
1) *get them to register today*. As (I think) you know, they need to get posted a code - this takes time.
2) They can start gathering records etc while they wait for the code to appear.
3) one step at a time - just tell them. not too ignore it, it isn't going away

Bowing to those with superior knowledge, but...
If they miss the deadline of 31 Jan, and are unable to come up with an acceptable excuse, it will be a £100 fine (think increases for continued non compliance)  - which isn't a lot in the scheme of things. There will be interest on late tax payments, but it is not credit card/ bank loan levels of interest rate.

Just don't ignore it


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## nick (Monday at 12:02 PM)

And in other news - made a first pass at my return last night.
the draft calculation shows I owe 8,500   which is surprising as I am predominantly PAYE for 21/22.

got a couple of weeks to double check and see what happened (suspect they may have given me a duff tax code)


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## Chilli.s (Monday at 12:54 PM)

muscovyduck said:


> I suppose they should register, get their paperwork together, then get to an accountant to sort it out from there and do the retroactive stuff?


I think if they register now then at least attempt to put some preliminary estimates into self assessment then theyll probably avoid any fines


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## muscovyduck (Monday at 1:14 PM)

Chilli.s said:


> I think if they register now then at least attempt to put some preliminary estimates into self assessment then theyll probably avoid any fines


Cheers. So frustrated with them but can fully empathise at the same time


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Monday at 1:45 PM)

muscovyduck said:


> I suppose they should register, get their paperwork together, then get to an accountant to sort it out from there and do the retroactive stuff?


How much do they actually need to submit? Do they need an accountant? When I did mine retroactively I just made one quick phonecall to the HMRC to check and did the self assessment.  
Not sure you can fill anything in before you get your UTR can you? Unfortunately your friend probably needs to check exactly what they need to do by calling the HMRC. Unfortunately there might be a long wait on that  at the moment.


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## muscovyduck (Monday at 2:30 PM)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> How much do they actually need to submit? Do they need an accountant? When I did mine retroactively I just made one quick phonecall to the HMRC to check and did the self assessment.
> Not sure you can fill anything in before you get your UTR can you? Unfortunately your friend probably needs to check exactly what they need to do by calling the HMRC. Unfortunately there might be a long wait on that  at the moment.


They seem to have sorted it out, they're now a lot less stressed after requesting their UTR and realising the process is a lot simpler and more friendly than they thought. I think they were imagining it'd be like the benefits system or something.

I assumed they needed to submit for the sake of trying to get a mortgage but they've earned so little it won't make a difference. Now they've realised this its a lot more simple and the pressure's off


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## wemakeyousoundb (Wednesday at 11:35 PM)

muscovyduck said:


> I don't think they've registered but this is what I feared. They're panicking a lot which makes it more difficult to sort out (as well as why they've left it this late to sort out).
> 
> I suppose they should register, get their paperwork together, then get to an accountant to sort it out from there and do the retroactive stuff?


found this info:


> When do I need to register as self-employed?​According to HMRC, you should register at the earliest opportunity. However, there's a deadline. Legally you need to register by 5 October after the end of the tax year in which you became self-employed.
> 
> For example, if you started your business in July 2021, you'd need to register with HMRC by 5 October 2022.
> 
> Ideally you wouldn't leave your registration this late. If anything goes wrong and you're unable to register by the deadline, you could find yourself with a very large tax bill.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Wednesday at 11:42 PM)

in other news: HMRC have been badgering me to file this for months now, so I might just wait till the 31st 9PM as I usually do, or do it tomorrow as I had planned.
Helped a friend with her return in December and I didn't like the new website navigation system, took me forever to work out how to actually find the link to submit the return.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Yesterday at 7:27 AM)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> in other news: HMRC have been badgering me to file this for months now, so I might just wait till the 31st 9PM as I usually do, or do it tomorrow as I had planned.
> Helped a friend with her return in December and I didn't like the new website navigation system, took me forever to work out how to actually find the link to submit the return.


Uh oh, I don't like the sound of this. I seem to remember it being all quite straight forward last time.


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## muscovyduck (Yesterday at 7:33 AM)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Uh oh, I don't like the sound of this. I seem to remember it being all quite straight forward last time.


Yeah I've just helped another friend sort theirs and had a "I don't remember it being this complicated" feeling about it


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Yesterday at 7:37 AM)

Tits.


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## zora (Yesterday at 10:14 AM)

Once you are in, I found the form is pretty much the same as last year, but like wemakeyousoundb , it also took me about 10 minutes to navigate to the actual return on the website after logging in. Very weird. 

There was also a process for verifying identification that was new to me. From a list of five options, I opted to supply two figures from my most recent P60 and the date and amount of my last payment to HMRC. (Can't remember what the other possible options were, but those were the most readily accessible for me.)


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## teuchter (Yesterday at 10:20 AM)

I didn't find this year's form all that different from last year's.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Yesterday at 10:32 AM)

zora said:


> Once you are in, I found the form is pretty much the same as last year, but like wemakeyousoundb , it also took me about 10 minutes to navigate to the actual return on the website after logging in. Very weird.
> 
> There was also a process for verifying identification that was new to me. From a list of five options, I opted to supply two figures from my most recent P60 and the date and amount of my last payment to HMRC. (Can't remember what the other possible options were, but those were the most readily accessible for me.)


this is what I meant, the form in itself is the same, getting to it was the headache.
My friend having the wrong login to start with did not help either.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Yesterday at 12:56 PM)

Arrrrrrhhhhhhhhh. I should have looked at this a lot sooner. There is a massive screw up. I worked for a company that flied me as PAYE even though I was Schedule D and payed without paying the tax. I thought I has sorted this all out with the HMRC .I was on the phone over and over again last year and though I could not 'fix' the problem as such I could submit a couple of official letters of explanation (with legal wording given to me by the HMRC). 
Before I have even signed into the actual self assessment I have a page telling me about the PAYE and the amount is now somehow completely different from the one that I had pre prepared another letter to attach to my records (I previously took a screen shot so I know it wasn't me making a crazy mistake). 
I now have to go through my records to work out their discrepancy. It could be that they calculated an income based on me being PAYE indefinitely rather than only a couple of months on Schedule D. 

They also reckon I owe £6.08 but there is no explanation what for and according to my records I don't and I payed everything up perfectly. There was an oddity last July, but I was on the phone to the HMRC about that back then and their records matched mine exactly and I knew exactly what to pay. So flipping odd. Not something worth hanging on the phone all afternoon about so I just paid that one. 

Just need to find out what has changed about the PAYE mess that I thought was all done and dusted and I can START my return. FFS


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Yesterday at 3:19 PM)

Soooo. 
So far today I have managed to clean the kitchen top to toe (what?), digitise the last of the CDs I own that I am so disinterested in that I have never even listened to them. Researched and bought two pairs of running shoes. . . and made a doctors appointment (not as easy a feat as it first seems after several attempts last year and last week. I've also gotten to the bottom of patient access, and it's many failings. 

Just about ready to start my taxes.


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## editor (Yesterday at 3:37 PM)

Can I just say, "AAAAAAARRRGH"" in advance of me even beginning this process.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Yesterday at 6:59 PM)

So far i've only managed to pin down a discrepancy that a company I worked for neglected to tell me about  . . . meaning my invoice (that they apparently signed off on) was wrong. On their records I was paid a hundred and something pounds less in holiday pay (though I am pretty sure they actually paid me the amount on my invoice). . . also it appears they have also  adjusted the error tax code that they previously said could not possibly be  fixed/adjusted and I had to write an official and legal letter to cover my arse . . . which is now wrong, because several of the details have changed (tax code and the amount) FFS. 

This really is annoying as otherwise my taxes simple. . . just had to spend the afternoon figuring out what was wrong. Not sure why I owed the HMRC £6.08p, on my end it all adds up correctly . . . I just paid that one and will worry about it later.


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