# Fuck the Tory government



## Maharani (May 9, 2015)

This is happening today:

https://m.facebook.com/events/1397471103912143/

Led by London Black Revs.


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## dessiato (May 9, 2015)

Become active with these? https://republic.org.uk/


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## Belushi (May 9, 2015)

Hope they get a decent turnout


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## Libertad (May 9, 2015)

Maharani said:


> This is happening today:
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/events/1397471103912143/
> 
> Led by London Black Revs.



Got a non Arseface link?


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## Maharani (May 9, 2015)

Libertad said:


> Got a non Arseface link?


Unfortunately not.


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## Libertad (May 9, 2015)

Maharani said:


> Unfortunately not.



Fair enough.


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## Maharani (May 9, 2015)

I looked in BR's site but nothing up there. 

Main info is the demo starts at 3pm at the Tory HQ on Matthew Parker Street.


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## Libertad (May 9, 2015)

Thanks.


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## Thimble Queen (May 9, 2015)

Some people are going to the anti EDL thing this morn and then heading to fuck the tories. Sounds like a really good day to be out on the streets.


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## Maharani (May 9, 2015)

I want to be there but have my daughter and don't think either will be child friendly.


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## Greebo (May 9, 2015)

Maharani said:


> I want to be there but have my daughter and don't think either will be child friendly.


Sensible.  I have a feeling there'll be plenty of chances to take to the streets this summer


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## Thimble Queen (May 9, 2015)

Maharani said:


> I want to be there but have my daughter and don't think either will be child friendly.



You might be alright at the tories one but probably sensible not to risk it...


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## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2015)

In honour of the thread title, for those old enough to remember the Dunn & Co Tailors ads of the 1980s, I have prepared a little ditty in homage to the ad's choon:

"Fuck them all, fuck them all, fuck the mall.
The stout, the short and the tall.
We'll fuck Tory fathers and their Tory sons.
We'll fuck them up proper with knives and with guns."


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## Nice one (May 9, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Some people are going to the anti EDL thing this morn and then heading to fuck the tories. Sounds like a really good day to be out on the streets.



i'd love the clapton ultras to turn up with their "we only attack scottish anti-fascists" banner. "Always"

Gone but not forgotten.


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## weepiper (May 9, 2015)

beginning to kick off a little


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## campanula (May 9, 2015)

My daughter has gone...with her daughter (4 years old)...but they are seasoned veterans (Brixton squatting) with a good line in belligerence so I am not fearing too much...yet.


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## q_w_e_r_t_y (May 9, 2015)

Looks like there has been 6 arrests.  I think there are three kettles, police letting people out slowly.

Livefeed from inside the kettle

http://bambuser.com/v/5499998


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## Fez909 (May 9, 2015)

There's a few livefeeds:

http://bambuser.com/v/5500198
http://bambuser.com/v/5500095
http://bambuser.com/v/5500172


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## teqniq (May 9, 2015)

Interesting that there appears to be fuck all about this in the MSM, checked out BBC, Graun, and Channel 4 sites. Nothing. Obviously it's news, but of the wrong sort. Conversely there's lots of pics on Fb:


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## Blagsta (May 9, 2015)

Daily Mail and Evening Standard have covered it on their websites.


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## Blagsta (May 9, 2015)

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-09/...nd-anti-tory-demonstration-at-downing-street/


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## Casually Red (May 9, 2015)

Greebo said:


> Sensible.  I have a feeling there'll be plenty of chances to take to the streets this summer




There'll be plenty living on the streets by then .


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## Casually Red (May 9, 2015)

That kettle thing looks really fucking annoying . Thankfully they don't do it over here . Basically imprisoning you on the street, holding you against your will . Utter bastards .


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## Greebo (May 9, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> That kettle thing looks really fucking annoying . <snip>


It's done on purpose, to deter people from showing up to protest at all (lawful or not).  Particularly if there are children who need picking up at a set time, or if you have medication which must be taken at rigid intervals (and with food) etc.


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## Artaxerxes (May 9, 2015)

Erg, idiots, this is how to make sure people don't listen to what your saying


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## Blagsta (May 9, 2015)

*puts tin foil hat on*

Also a good way to discredit protest if you're undercover state


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## Bernie Gunther (May 9, 2015)

Blagsta said:


> *puts tin foil hat on*
> 
> Also a good way to discredit protest if you're undercover state



Certainly seemed to be the point at which the propaganda machine chose to notice the protests and became their principal focus in reporting it.

Functionally, that's the important thing I think, rather than whether the person who sprayed it was or was not a police provocateur or a random stupid twat.


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## JHE (May 9, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Erg, idiots, this is how to make sure people don't listen to what your saying



Yup.

At the very least it hands the Daily Mail the opportunity to make the following headline.

*



Sickening socialist activists desecrate WWII memorial on 70th anniversary of VE Day

Click to expand...

*
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html


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## Andrew Hertford (May 9, 2015)

Blagsta said:


> *puts tin foil hat on*
> 
> Also a good way to discredit protest if you're undercover state



Is there any evidence that it might be a provocateur? Have there been any confirmed examples of provocateurs doing similar in the UK before?


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## shifting gears (May 9, 2015)

Agents of the state, in this proud nation? I simply don't beliiiieve it


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## comrade spurski (May 9, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Is there any evidence that it might be a provocateur? Have there been any confirmed examples of provocateurs doing similar in the UK before?


We are a democracy. ..there is no way that the police would infiltrate legal and peaceful campaign groups with the aim of discrediting and undermining them...that would only happen in johnny foreigner countries which do not share british values of justice and freedom


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## smokedout (May 9, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Is there any evidence that it might be a provocateur? Have there been any confirmed examples of provocateurs doing similar in the UK before?



they've done a lot more than that: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-spy-animal-rights-overturn-conviction-appeal
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-spy-animal-rights-overturn-conviction-appeal
was a good day, up to 2000 strong at its peak, a bit unfocussed, a bit well behaved at times, but a good start - and a huge police response for what was really very little other than disruption


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## shaman75 (May 9, 2015)

Cracking demo.  Loads of people, lots of different groups and a general fuck you attitude.  Shame about the memorial, but it'll clean off I guess.  Guess it keeps people in work.  The tories should be happy.


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## treelover (May 9, 2015)

shaman75 said:


> Cracking demo.  Loads of people, lots of different groups and a general fuck you attitude.  Shame about the memorial, but it'll clean off I guess.  Guess it keeps people in work.  The tories should be happy.




Eh, the tabloids will be full of it tomorrow, not good?


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## shaman75 (May 9, 2015)

Didn't say it was good and I think many protesters were disappointed.  Just remarked that it will clean off.

Media wasn't exactly providing a detailed and balanced account of the day as it stood anyway.


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## Artaxerxes (May 9, 2015)

shaman75 said:


> Media wasn't exactly providing any account of the day as it stood anyway.



Bit of fiddling to make that accurate


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## shifting gears (May 9, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Bit of fiddling to make that accurate



That's not accurate - both bbc and itv have features on it

ETA - on their websites at least, not seen the tv news


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## Thunderfist (May 9, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> That kettle thing looks really fucking annoying . Thankfully they don't do it over here



They will.


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## Artaxerxes (May 9, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> That's not accurate - both bbc and itv have features on it
> 
> ETA - on their websites at least, not seen the tv news



About time then, I've been checking since 5pm and there wasn't a fucking thing


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## smokedout (May 9, 2015)

bbcnews24 just mentioned it, according to them there were just a hundred protesters but they still managed to injure five coppers, destroy a war memorial and 17 of them were arrested.

there wasn't much press there, it was big and largely spontaneous, sounds like the beeb are just parroting the old bills press statement


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## shifting gears (May 9, 2015)

smokedout said:


> bbcnews24 just mentioned it, according to them there were just a hundred protesters but they still managed to injure five coppers, destroy a war memorial and 17 of them were arrested.
> 
> there wasn't much press there, it was big and largely spontaneous, sounds like the beeb are just parroting the old bills press statement



Yep and the footage was as predictable as ever - a few filth getting a light pelting


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## Plumdaff (May 9, 2015)

There was a report on BBC News at Ten which focused on how it was only one day into government, police getting hurt and the graffiti. Then went on about dull concert close by which I imagine was partly reason for police response, well that and a message of future intent.


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## Andrew Hertford (May 9, 2015)

comrade spurski said:


> We are a democracy. ..there is no way that the police would infiltrate legal and peaceful campaign groups with the aim of discrediting and undermining them...that would only happen in johnny foreigner countries which do not share british values of justice and freedom



Equally there are a few 'class war' nutcases who would happily do that anyway, n'est pas?


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## Wilf (May 9, 2015)

Spraying the memorial was fucking silly, but forget that.  Nice one to all who showed their face today, that's what counts.


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## shaman75 (May 9, 2015)

Always picked last at school by entoptika, on Flickr


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## Maharani (May 9, 2015)

I'm loving the use of the coloured powders, it really freaks the pigs out!

Sense this is one of many protests to come this summer and I doubt they will be peaceful.


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## peterkro (May 9, 2015)

*JUDY COLLINS MARAT/SADE LYRICS*

HOMAGE TO MARAT
From "Marat / Sade"
(Adrian Mitchell / Richard Peaslee)
Peter Weiss


Four years after the revolution and the old king's execution
Four years after I remember how those courtiers took their final vow
String up every aristocrat
Out with the priests Let them live on their fat
Four years after we started fighting
Marat keeps on with his writing
Four years after the Bastille fell
He still recalls the old battle yell
Down with all of the ruling class
Throw all the generals out on their arse
Good old Marat by your side we'll stand or fall
You're the only one that we can trust at all
Four years he fought and he fought unafraid
Sniffing down traitors by traitors betrayed
Marat in the courtroom Marat underground
Sometimes the otter and sometimes the hound
Fight ing all the gentry and fighting every priest
Businessman the bourgeois the military beast
Marat always ready to stifle every scheme
of the sons of the arse licking dying regime
We've got new generals our leaders are new
They sit and they argue and all that they do
Is sell their own colleagues and ride upon their backs
And jail them and break them and give them all the axe
Screaming in language that no one understands
Of the rights that we grabbed with our own bleeding hands
When we wiped out the bosses and stormed through the wall
Of the prison they told us would outlast us all
Marat we're poor
And the poor stay poor
Marat don't make
Us wait anymore
We want our rights and we don't care how
We want our revolution now
Why do they have the gold
Why do they have the power
Why why why
Do they have the friends at the top
Why do they have the jobs at the top
We've got nothing
Always had nothing
Nothing but holes and millions of them
Living in holes dying in holes
Holes in our bellies and holes in our clothes
Marat we're poor
And the poor stay poor
Marat don't make us wait anymore
Poor old Marat they hunt you down
The bloodhounds are sniffing all over the town
Poor old Marat you work til your eyes turn as red as rust
poor old Marat
We trust in you ....


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## AC14 (May 10, 2015)

Glad we had this. We should demand a democratic vote on who should be the government rather than accept the Tories being in power.


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## shaman75 (May 10, 2015)

Wankers by entoptika, on Flickr




The Words On The Street by entoptika, on Flickr


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## jakethesnake (May 10, 2015)

It's interesting to watch this on the live feeds.


AC14 said:


> Glad we had this. We should demand a democratic vote on who should be the government rather than accept the Tories being in power.


We live in a democracy (allegedly) not an elected dictatorship: it is perfectly proper and right that people robustly express their opinion about government policy. To put it bluntly, gaining 36% of the votes cast does not give any government any sort of mandate to screw us into poverty for the benefit of their rich friends and they should expect protest and resistance every step of the way. Also, fuck off you twat.


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## Eddiemc (May 10, 2015)

AC14 said:


> Glad we had this. We should demand a democratic vote on who should be the government rather than accept the Tories being in power.



A democratic vote? Isn't that called an election?


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## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> ....robustly express their opinion



Lol at the newspeak for political violence and the desecration of a memorial to women who died fighting fascism.


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## CNT36 (May 10, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Spraying the memorial was fucking silly, but forget that.  Nice one to all who showed their face today, that's what counts.


And those who didn't.


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Lol at the newspeak for political violence and the desecration of a memorial to women who died fighting fascism.


you haven't looked at the memorial, have you?






seems fairly unequivocal: ALL the women, not just the british. not just the allied.


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

shaman75 said:


> Always picked last at school by entoptika, on Flickr


You put your left arm in
your left arm out
In, out, in, out,
You shake it all about.
You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn around
That's what it's all about...

[Chorus]
Woah, the hokey cokey,
Woah, the hokey cokey,
Woah, the hokey cokey,
Knees bent, arms stretched, ra ra ra!

You put your right arm in
your right arm out
In, out, in, out,
You shake it all about.
You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn around
That's what it's all about...

[Chorus]

You put your left leg in
your left leg out
In, out, in, out,
You shake it all about.
You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn around
That's what it's all about...


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## Blagsta (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Lol at the newspeak for political violence and the desecration of a memorial to women who died fighting fascism.



Political violence? What political violence?


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## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2015)

That prat in a Guy Fawkes mask holding up a picture of Gordon Brown. What was he thinking of? Would it have been impossible to do a google image search for a politician who had had some relevance since 2010 and redo his crappy poster?


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> That prat in a Guy Fawkes mask holding up a picture of Gordon Brown. What was he thinking of? Would it have been impossible to do a google image search for a politician who had had some relevance since 2010 and redo his crappy poster?


he was an mp until just the other day.


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## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> desecration of a memorial to women who died fighting fascism.



Fucks sake, its paint, paint washes off.


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## dessiato (May 10, 2015)

(posted on other thread too.)


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## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Fucks sake, its paint, paint washes off.



Still an extraordinary choice of monument to deface. Why did no one on the demo suggest that the protestor in question choose something else?


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Still an extraordinary choice of monument to deface. Why did no one on the demo suggest that the protestor in question choose something else?


i would like to suggest you stop posting here.


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## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Still an extraordinary choice of monument to deface. Why did no one on the demo suggest that the protestor in question choose something else?



The area is crammed with war memorials, most likely the idiot just wanted somewhere out of police sight that wasn't fenced off and if he'd had any mates with him not focused on the cops they'd have slapped him around the head for being an idiot.


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## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> he was an mp until just the other day.


... and key player in the Scottish Ref.


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## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you haven't looked at the memorial, have you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Putting aside your ignorance about the memorial, what's your point exactly? Are you trying to defend spraying 'fuck the tories' on it?



Artaxerxes said:


> Fucks sake, its paint, paint washes off.



So do swastikas painted on the sides of Mosques and Synagogues wash off. So what's you point?


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Putting aside your ignorance about the memorial, what's your point exactly? Are you trying to defend spraying 'fuck the tories' on it?


i am pointing out that the memorial says nothing about women who died fighting fascism. and you only demonstrate your stupidity when you suggest i'm doing something which  it's clear i haven't.


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## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> So do swastikas painted on the sides of Mosques and Synagogues wash off. So what's you point?



Whats yours?


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Whats yours?


his point is he's a twat.


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## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

Derail: a very quick google doesn't tell me what Brown's post parliament plans are. A tiny, naive part of me hopes it won't be _quite_ as grubby as his granita buddy tony blair, but we'll see.  He's been the MP with the highest outside earnings since resigning as MP, but claims to have passed it on to charities.  Suspect the lure of 'advising the board of..' will get too strong for him in the end.


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## bi0boy (May 10, 2015)

It's a lump of stone ffs.

Or is it bronze?


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## co-op (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Is there any evidence that it might be a provocateur? Have there been any confirmed examples of provocateurs doing similar in the UK before?



I guess confirming these things is pretty tricky but there's almost direct form for this stunt in the defacing of the cenotaph during the 2000 Reclaim The Streets, when the Daily Mirror launched a massive "FIND THESE SCUM!" style front page campaign with a load of photos of people doing it yet no one was ever found - despite at least one person being prosecuted later for defacing the Churchill statue (the mohican + blood stained mouth). The DM strangely dropped its campaign 2 days later and the whole thing quietly dropped out of the media. Always seemed likely to be agents provocateur to me.


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## sunnysidedown (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Putting aside your ignorance about the memorial, what's your point exactly? Are you trying to defend spraying 'fuck the tories' on it?
> 
> 
> 
> So do swastikas painted on the sides of Mosques and Synagogues wash off. So what's you point?



were you this angry about the lack of this monument before 2005, when it was built?


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## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

AH - it was a dickish thing to do, but comparing it to swastikas on Mosques is fucking silly. Misplaced though it was, the 'fuck the Tories' was unrelated to the memorial, the memorial was just a surface (perhaps an 'official surface' but still just a surface). Swastikas on Mosques is *aimed at* the Mosque. Got it?


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Derail: a very quick google doesn't tell me what Brown's post parliament plans are. A tiny, naive part of me hopes it won't be _quite_ as grubby as his granita buddy tony blair, but we'll see.  He's been the MP with the highest outside earnings since resigning as MP, but claims to have passed it on to charities.  Suspect the lure of 'advising the board of..' will get too strong for him in the end.





> Since resigning as prime minister and Labour leader, Mr Brown has focused on charity work and his role as United Nations special envoy for global education.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30277709


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

sunnysidedown said:


> were you this angry about the lack of this monument before 2005, when it was built?


he exists in a constant froth of unrequited outrage


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## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

sunnysidedown said:


> were you this angry about the lack of this monument before 2005, when it was built?


I'm sure he was.  In fact he's already chipping away at the marble to construct a *Victims of Atos* memorial.


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Wilf said:


> I'm sure he was.  In fact he's already chipping away at the marble to construct a *Victims of Atos* memorial.


if there was such a memorial he would be busy chipping away at it


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## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30277709


So, you're suggesting I should have looked at _*another*_ source than Wikipedia?


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## butchersapron (May 10, 2015)

co-op said:


> I guess confirming these things is pretty tricky but there's almost direct form for this stunt in the defacing of the cenotaph during the 2000 Reclaim The Streets, when the Daily Mirror launched a massive "FIND THESE SCUM!" style front page campaign with a load of photos of people doing it yet no one was ever found - despite at least one person being prosecuted later for defacing the Churchill statue (the mohican + blood stained mouth). The DM strangely dropped its campaign 2 days later and the whole thing quietly dropped out of the media. Always seemed likely to be agents provocateur to me.


Or Turkish Stalinists.


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## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i am pointing out that the memorial says nothing about women who died fighting fascism. and you only demonstrate your stupidity when you suggest i'm doing something which  it's clear i haven't.



You haven't looked at the memorial have you? The inscription reads: 'This monument was raised to commemorate the vital work done by over Seven Million Women during World War II. - National Heritage Memorial Fund'.

So again... what _is_ your point?



Artaxerxes said:


> Whats yours?



My point is that it's as bad as spraying a swastika or 'EDL' on a Mosque or Synagogue, so saying that it doesn't matter because it's only paint is both crass and stupid.


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> You haven't looked at the memorial have you? The inscription reads: 'This monument was raised to commemorate the vital work done by over Seven Million Women during World War II. - National Heritage Memorial Fund'.


that doesn't undermine my point one iota.

have you considered engaging brain?


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## co-op (May 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Or Turkish Stalinists.





Got a link?


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## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> My point is that it's as bad as spraying a swastika or 'EDL' on a Mosque or Synagogue, so saying that it doesn't matter because it's only paint is both crass and stupid.



Except its not, one is a symptom of hatred towards those who use the building and the living, the other is stupidity or ignorance.

If he'd written "FUCK THE WOMEN OF WW2, CUNTS THE LOT OF EM!" then it'd be the same.


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## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> My point is that it's as bad as spraying a swastika or 'EDL' on a Mosque or Synagogue, so saying that it doesn't matter because it's only paint is both crass and stupid.


You seem to be arguing that a valid political statement on an unconnected surface is as bad as a racist statement deliberately targeted on a mosque/synagogue. Unless you are reduced to arguing it's all just 'paint on a thing' - are you, are you really arguing that?


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## butchersapron (May 10, 2015)

co-op said:


> Got a link?


Nope!


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## butchersapron (May 10, 2015)

No one say Kristallnacht.


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## teqniq (May 10, 2015)

bless you


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## co-op (May 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Nope!



Fair enough. I'll just have to go and work my extensive network of contacts amongst Turkish Stalinists. I'd have thought they might have seen the cenotaph as a little bit soviet communism.


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## butchersapron (May 10, 2015)

co-op said:


> Fair enough. I'll just have to go and work my extensive network of contacts amongst Turkish Stalinists. I'd have thought they might have seen the cenotaph as a little bit soviet communism.


_Devious alien Communists._


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## co-op (May 10, 2015)

Slightly islamic communists.


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## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

co-op said:


> Got a link?


http://www.wussu.com/roads/r00/r0005052.htm


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## Mr Moose (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Putting aside your ignorance about the memorial, what's your point exactly? Are you trying to defend spraying 'fuck the tories' on it?
> 
> 
> 
> So do swastikas painted on the sides of Mosques and Synagogues wash off. So what's you point?



There's a massive difference between the two. A racist is taking aim to greviously offend someone they probably don't know merely on the grounds of their race.

This is taking aim at someone purely because it just so happens it's their mum and dad.


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## co-op (May 10, 2015)

Wilf said:


> http://www.wussu.com/roads/r00/r0005052.htm



That link is for the defacing of Churchill's statue - for which at least one guy was prosecuted (an ex-squaddy). I don't think most people were _so_ bothered by the Churchill thing - the mohican was widely seen as quite funny and I heard even quite tory types agreeing that he was a warrior and it was strangely appropriate.

I was talking about the cenotaph - ok so a monument to a bloody imperialist war, but also to an anti-nazi one, and one that commemorates the forgotten or underdog soldier. Always seemed a strange choice to me, but a perfect piss-off in PR terms for the same reason. And the way the campaign to find the perps started with such a fanfare and was then dropped and no one ever prosecuted (despite lots of photos - all over the front page of the Daily Mirror).


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## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

Yeah, sorry, I was conflating the two. Was just wondering if that was what Butchers had in mind regarding the Turkish/Kurdish link.


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## butchersapron (May 10, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Yeah, sorry, I was conflating the two. Was just wondering if that was what Butchers had in mind regarding the Turkish/Kurdish link.


Probably was.


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## treelover (May 10, 2015)

Most popular story in the Guardian online today


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> Most popular story in the Guardian online today


most popular or most read?


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## treelover (May 10, 2015)

shaman75 said:


> Wankers by entoptika, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> ...




on social media, lots of people saying the demo is faked, as the guy also has brown pictured in the image,

also, lots saying the election was rigged!


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## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> that doesn't undermine my point one iota.



Well obviously it does, you said that the memorial was dedicated to "ALL the women, not just the british. not just the allied" (And actually I wish it was).

So for the third time, what exactly _is_ your point? What do you want to say about the graffiti?


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Well obviously it does, you said that the memorial was dedicated to "ALL the women, not just the british. not just the allied" (And actually I wish it was).
> 
> So for the third time, what exactly _is_ your point? What do you want to say about the graffiti?


you haven't supplied an inscription which contradicts 'ALL the women, not just the british. not just the allied'. my point stands.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> on social media, lots of people saying the demo is faked, as the guy also has brown pictured in the image,
> 
> also, lots saying the election was rigged!



I suppose it depends on whom one befriends, or follows on the Twitter.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you haven't supplied an inscription which contradicts 'ALL the women, not just the british. not just the allied'. my point stands.



So you think there were only 7 million women worldwide 'who did vital work during WW2"?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> So you think there were only 7 million women worldwide 'who did vital work during WW2"?


no, i agree with the inscription that there were MORE THAN SEVEN MILLION  you don't even read the fucking inscriptions you post you sordid little twat.


----------



## smokedout (May 10, 2015)

co-op said:


> That link is for the defacing of Churchill's statue - for which at least one guy was prosecuted (an ex-squaddy). I don't think most people were _so_ bothered by the Churchill thing - the mohican was widely seen as quite funny and I heard even quite tory types agreeing that he was a warrior and it was strangely appropriate.
> 
> I was talking about the cenotaph - ok so a monument to a bloody imperialist war, but also to an anti-nazi one, and one that commemorates the forgotten or underdog soldier. Always seemed a strange choice to me, but a perfect piss-off in PR terms for the same reason. And the way the campaign to find the perps started with such a fanfare and was then dropped and no one ever prosecuted (despite lots of photos - all over the front page of the Daily Mirror).



can't find a pic now but I think most of the graffiti on the cenotaph was PKK


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no, i agree with the inscription that there were MORE THAN SEVEN MILLION  you don't even read the fucking inscriptions you post you sordid little twat.



So because a monument put up by 'The *National* Heritage Memorial Fund puts the figure at 'over 7 million', you assume that they mean _*all*_ _*the women in the whole world *_who did vital work during WW2!!! Do you have any idea how many women and how many countries were involved in the war? 

It's hilarious to see you wriggling like this... all because I dared to criticise some jerk who sprayed graffiti on a war memorial. Were they a mate of yours?

I'd stop digging if I was you son.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

smokedout said:


> can't find a pic now but I think most of the graffiti on the cenotaph was PKK


----------



## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no, i agree with the inscription that there were MORE THAN SEVEN MILLION  you don't even read the fucking inscriptions you post _*you sordid little tw*_at.


Just been reading DotCommunist finely sculpted evisceration of Dandred.  For this however you get mentioned in dispatches.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> So because a monument put up by 'The *National* Heritage Memorial Fund puts the figure at 'over 7 million', you assume that they mean _*all*_ _*the women in the whole world *_who did vital work during WW2!!! Do you have any idea how many women and how many countries were involved in the war?
> 
> It's hilarious to see you wriggling like this... all because I dared to criticise some jerk who sprayed graffiti on a war memorial. Were they a mate of yours?
> 
> I'd stop digging if I was you son.


if there's any wriggling going on here, it's you.

let's see. you've dropped your guff about women falling in the fight against freedom. you've dropped your piffle about 'only 7 million'. you're reduced to claiming that because it was put up by a body with national in the name the inscriptions only have a local, not a global, application: despite it being for 'the women of the second world war'. NOWHERE does it say what you claimed above it did. NOWHERE does it contradict what i said.

why not shut the fuck up now while you're still behind?


----------



## co-op (May 10, 2015)

smokedout said:


> can't find a pic now but I think most of the graffiti on the cenotaph was PKK



I can't find a pic either, as I remember it a lot of buildings and statues had been boarded up but the centotaph had been left open and without police. The whole thing seemed pretty dodgy to me.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if there's any wriggling going on here, it's you.
> 
> let's see. you've dropped your guff about women falling in the fight against freedom. you've dropped your piffle about 'only 7 million'. you're reduced to claiming that because it was put up by a body with national in the name the inscriptions only have a local, not a global, application: despite it being for 'the women of the second world war'. NOWHERE does it say what you claimed above it did. NOWHERE does it contradict what i said.
> 
> why not shut the fuck up now while you're still behind?



Where does the inscription say that it's a memorial to "all the women, not just British , not just allied"?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Where does the inscription say that it's a memorial to "all the women, not just British , not just allied"?




you clueless fucking cunt, it says it when it says 'the women of the second world war'.


----------



## CNT36 (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> on social media, lots of people saying the demo is faked, as the guy also has brown pictured in the image,
> 
> also, lots saying the election was rigged!


Rigged. That's an insult to our great democracy. We don't need it rigged for 30 odd% of voters to provide a party with an overall majority. A vile slur.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you clueless fucking cunt, it says it when it says 'the women of the second world war'.



It says 7 million of them. 

Perhaps the National Memorial fund can't count. How many women do you think worked during WW2 around the World on both sides? 7 1/2 million?

You know you've shown yourself up to be a total dickhead again - keep it up.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> It says 7 million of them.
> 
> Perhaps the National Memorial fund can't count. How many women do you think worked during WW2 around the World on both sides? 7 1/2 million?
> 
> You know you've shown yourself up to be a total dickhead again - keep it up.


it says MORE THAN SEVEN MILLION  i've had to point that out to you already but you don't seem to comprehend it. i don't know about the national HERITAGE memorial fund, but i've grave doubts about your numeracy. once again you show yourself unable to accept a simple statement, in this case 'the women of the second world war', without needing it heaped about with invented caveats and exclusions.


----------



## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> So do swastikas painted on the sides of Mosques and Synagogues wash off. So what's you point?



Andrew, some red paint, on your post.  Was that like having a swastika on a Mosque?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Andrew, some red paint, on your post.  Was that like having a swastika on a Mosque?



I take your point Wilf, but it was the desecration of a war memorial and therefore an attack on women who suffered during the war, so to dismiss it merely as "paint that will wash off" was both crass and insensitive.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> it says MORE THAN SEVEN MILLION  i've had to point that out to you already but you don't seem to comprehend it. i don't know about the national HERITAGE memorial fund, but i've grave doubts about your numeracy. once again you show yourself unable to accept a simple statement, in this case 'the women of the second world war', without needing it heaped about with invented caveats and exclusions.



Brilliant, so all the hundreds of millions of women in the world who worked during WW2 are counted as "Over 7 million" on a monument to them.

You really are a complete twat. Who are you trying to kid?  Do you actually have anything to say about the graffiti on the memorial? Or has this simply become an exercise in trying to rescue your inflated ego?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> I take your point Wilf, but it was the desecration of a war memorial and therefore an attack on women who suffered during the war, so to dismiss it merely as "paint that will wash off" was both crass and insensitive.


jesus mary and joseph will you never shut the fuck up?


----------



## co-op (May 10, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> Rigged. That's an insult to our great democracy. We don't need it rigged for 30 odd% of voters to provide a party with an overall majority. A vile slur.



More like just under 20% if you factor in turnout (36%) and registration rates (approx 80%).


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Brilliant, so all the women in the world who worked during WW2 are counted as "Over 7 million" on a monument to them.
> 
> You really are a complete twat. Who are you trying to kid?  Do you actually have anything to say about the graffiti on the memorial? Or has this simply become an exercise in trying to rescue your inflated ego?


i think it would have been better if it had been over your car or over the front of your house.

as for my being the complete twat, i beg to differ. the cuntery you've displayed throughout this thread places you a league or two above any cuntdom i might display.


----------



## Santino (May 10, 2015)

If you prefer a milder anti-authoritarian movement trying to destabilise the government through violent action, please ask.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i think it would have been better if it had been over your car or over the front of your house.
> 
> as for my being the complete twat, i beg to differ. the cuntery you've displayed throughout this thread places you a league or two above any cuntdom i might display.





Pickman's model said:


> jesus mary and joseph will you never shut the fuck up?



Well that would appear to be that then.

Next time at least try and get your facts straight before digging yourself into another hole and ending up looking like a complete twat. You clearly know fuck all about the memorial in question and you clearly don't even have any idea how many women were involved in WW2.

If you have some sympathy for the knobhead who sprayed the memorial then at least have the courage to admit it.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Well that would appear to be that then.
> 
> Next time at least try and get your facts straight before digging yourself into another hole and ending up looking like a complete twat. You clearly know fuck all about the memorial in question and you clearly don't even have any idea how many women were involved in WW2.
> 
> If you have some sympathy for the knobhead who sprayed the memorial then at least have the courage to admit it.


i know all about the memorial to which you allude, having availed myself of the information about it on the imperial war museum site. throughout this sorry debacle, in which you've wriggled like a foul leech threatened with salting, i've been clear and consistent. you have been squirming and shifting your position like a diarrhetick slug. but never fear, you have my full sympathy.


----------



## teqniq (May 10, 2015)

*tries to picture a diarrhetick slug, fails*


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

teqniq said:


> *tries to picture a diarrhetick slug, fails*


picture andrew hertford and you have it to the life


----------



## ska invita (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Have there been any confirmed examples of provocateurs doing similar in the UK before?


G20 police 'used undercover men to incite crowds'
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/10/g20-policing-agent-provacateurs



Spoiler










Spoiler








There was an excellent clip that captured this at the Fortnum & mason thing a few years back but  I cant seem to find it now


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/anti-tory-protests-live-updates-5670515

all over the media now, The Mirror seems to be exulting in the event, they have about five stories on it..


----------



## FiFi (May 10, 2015)

I have just been asked by The Resident Teen (who should be revising for her RS GCSE tomorrow  ) why more of the media is not reporting the protests.
We have just had a most entertaining discussion about the corporate agenda of the right wing press. 

If this continues, I may have a companion in campaigning for the next 5 years!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

FiFi said:


> I have just been asked by The Resident Teen (who should be revising for her RS GCSE tomorrow  ) why more of the media is not reporting the protests.
> We have just had a most entertaining discussion about the corporate agenda of the right wing press.
> 
> If this continues, I may have a companion in campaigning for the next 5 years!


if the resident teen doesn't know her rs from her elbow then it's too late to start learning it now.


----------



## DanBrown (May 10, 2015)

I'm sure lots of women of WW2 would agree with the sentiment.


----------



## FiFi (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if the resident teen doesn't know her rs from her elbow then it's too late to start learning it now.



I think that's why she's on Tumblr and hasn't got her head in her books!


----------



## FiFi (May 10, 2015)

I am now under orders to publically inform you all that The Resident Teen is indeed revising for her GCSE's and is not spending (all) her time on the internet! 
But as political and sociological issues come under the heading of "religious studies", keeping up to date is also helpful for her education, so there.

Actually, on reflection, I think the "so there" may have been for me, so please don't take offence at that!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

FiFi said:


> I am now under orders to publically inform you all that The Resident Teen is indeed revising for her GCSE's and is not spending (all) her time on the internet!
> But as political and sociological issues come under the heading of "religious studies", keeping up to date is also helpful for her education, so there.
> 
> Actually, on reflection, I think the "so there" may have been for me, so please don't take offence at that!


what's she ordered for her last (pre-gcse) supper?


----------



## FiFi (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what's she ordered for her last (pre-gcse) supper?


Her Fathers homemade pizza. Himself is in the kitchen as we speak!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

FiFi said:


> Her Fathers homemade pizza. Himself is in the kitchen as we speak!


are you going to let her have a glass of wine with that?


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> I take your point Wilf, but it was the desecration of a war memorial and therefore an attack on women who suffered during the war, so to dismiss it merely as "paint that will wash off" was both crass and insensitive.



Noone dismissed it, its very unfortunate and not the right place for it but, again, its understandable how it ends up there. Its a war memorial at the centre of power i.e its quiet, noones guarding it, bam its a handy canvas. 

However its not the end of the world and to use the phrase "desecration" and compare it to actual genuine religious/racial hatred is fucking stupid and suggests that the priority should be standing up for the dead and gone rather than for the living to express dissatisfaction with those in charge.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Noone dismissed it, its very unfortunate and not the right place for it but, again, its understandable how it ends up there. Its a war memorial at the centre of power i.e its quiet, noones guarding it, bam its a handy canvas.
> 
> However its not the end of the world and to use the phrase "desecration" and compare it to actual genuine religious/racial hatred is fucking stupid and suggests that the priority should be standing up for the dead and gone rather than for the living to express dissatisfaction with those in charge.


would this be (chief?) inspector noone of the mps, seen recently at the class war fuck parade?


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

FiFi said:


> political and sociological issues come under the heading of "religious studies"



Really? Fuck I'm jealous, I just had to study the gospel of St Mark for 2 years. However I did get a G which I'm very proud of, clearly answering questions in a variety of silly ways amused someone.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Really? Fuck I'm jealous, I just had to study the gospel of St Mark for 2 years. However I did get a G which I'm very proud of, clearly answering questions in a variety of silly ways amused someone.


in terms of rs a g (god) is the equivalent of an a in many other subjects.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i know all about the memorial to which you allude, having availed myself of the information about it on the imperial war museum site. throughout this sorry debacle, in which you've wriggled like a foul leech threatened with salting, i've been clear and consistent. you have been squirming and shifting your position like a diarrhetick slug. but never fear, you have my full sympathy.



Yeah, you've been clearly wrong from the start about who the memorial was for. 

Do you have sympathy for the twat who desecrated it? Yes or no?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Noone dismissed it, its very unfortunate and not the right place for it but, again, its understandable how it ends up there. Its a war memorial at the centre of power i.e its quiet, noones guarding it, bam its a handy canvas.
> 
> However its not the end of the world and to use the phrase "desecration" and compare it to actual genuine religious/racial hatred is fucking stupid and suggests that the priority should be standing up for the dead and gone rather than for the living to express dissatisfaction with those in charge.



No it's not understandable, that section of Whitehall has been a place of remembrance for nearly a century, if the plank who did it didn't bother to find out what it was first then fuck him, if he knew what it was then fuck him even more. He's done a disservice to all of us who hate the tories. 

Also to an atheist like myself, desecrating a memorial to women of WW2 is as bad as desecrating a place of worship.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Again, where in this street of fenced off high security buildings associated with Government would you have placed graffiti?




Andrew Hertford said:


> Also to an atheist like myself, desecrating a memorial to women of WW2 is as bad as desecrating a place of worship.



And this is why people hate atheists...


----------



## Santino (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Do you have sympathy for the twat who desecrated it? Yes or no?


I feel sympathy and compassion for everyone.

Except Tories.


----------



## Santino (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> And this is why people hate atheists...


No it's not.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Santino said:


> No it's not.



Probably not, but it does strike me as a very Dawkins kind of thing to say and he's a right nobhead sometimes.


----------



## Santino (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Probably not, but it does strike me as a very Dawkins kind of thing to say and he's a right nobhead sometimes.


Do you hate atheists?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Yeah, you've been clearly wrong from the start about who the memorial was for.
> 
> Do you have sympathy for the twat who desecrated it? Yes or no?


no YOU'VE been wrong you auld gobshite, with your talk of it being a monument to women killed in the fight against fascism etc ad nauseam. if it wasn't you who graffitied it - and i have every suspicion it WAS you - then i feel, with other people, that it is likely the work of a provocateur, a feeling heightened by the lack of further graffiti on the monument.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> And this is why people hate atheists...


no, it's why people hate andrew hertford


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Santino said:


> Do you hate atheists?



Nope, just arseholes.

Some of my best mates are atheists like.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Again, where in this street of fenced off high security buildings associated with Government would you have placed graffiti?



I wouldn't! Are you actually saying that he desecrated a war memorial because the poor bloke couldn't find anywhere else to spray 'Fuck the tories??



Artaxerxes said:


> And this is why people hate atheists...



That doesn't make any sense. Who hates atheists because they respect war memorials as much as they do places of worship?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no YOU'VE been wrong you auld gobshite, with your talk of it being a monument to women killed in the fight against fascism etc ad nauseam. if it wasn't you who graffitied it - and i have every suspicion it WAS you - then i feel, with other people, that it is likely the work of a provocateur, a feeling heightened by the lack of further graffiti on the monument.



Do you think none of the women commemorated by the memorial died fighting fascism? Do you still think that only 7 million women throughout the whole world worked during WW2??

Can't bring yourself to condemn the graffiti or admit you admire it either, can you?

Keep it up mate if only for entertainment's sake.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> I wouldn't! Are you actually saying that he desecrated a war memorial because the poor bloke couldn't find anywhere else to spray 'Fuck the tories??



Yes, and I've been saying that for the last 4 pages. 



> That doesn't make any sense. Who hates atheists because they respect war memorials as much as they do places of worship?



A fucking war memorial is not the same as a place of worship, is your reverence for a conflict 70 years ago really as intrinsic part of your beliefs and lifestyle as a regular religious believer? Do you go there once or twice a week to praise God? Do you have a little community you hang around with at the memorial and say "well clearly this is the way to live my life, when I die I'll go down fighting the Hun" 

Fucks sake if thats the case get your arse out of the sand and get a better hobby, live your life. 

Your inflating your lack of faith and making false comparisons between two separate things, preaching from your high horse, thats why people hate (some) atheists.

Hell I am a fucking atheist and I think your being a dick.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Do you think none of the women commemorated by the memorial died fighting fascism? Do you still think that only 7 million women throughout the whole world worked during WW2??
> 
> Can't bring yourself to condemn the graffiti or admit you admire it either, can you?
> 
> Keep it up mate if only for entertainment's sake.


do you member some time ago you quoted the inscription sayin mote than 7 million? why do you so rradily forget the important word 'more'?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Yes, and I've been saying that for the last 4 pages.



Christ, that has to be the most pathetic argument for desecrating a war memorial I've ever heard!!

'_I had no choice but to spray "fuck" on a war memorial cos everywhere else was fenced off!!'_

....And you call me a dick.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> do you member some time ago you quoted the inscription sayin mote than 7 million? why do you so rradily forget the important word 'more'?



Hilarious. Are you pissed?

Why would a war memorial to hundreds of millions of women only refer to there being "More than 7 Million"?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Hilarious. Are you pissed?
> 
> Why would a war memorial to hundreds of millions of women only refer to there being "More than 7 Million"?


i'm on a crap phone on a bumpy bus. but unlike you i've not been forced to alter my argument altho yours has had to shift several times and despite the tevision is still a chamberpot load of faeces. e2a for tevision read revision


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm on a crap phone on a bumpy bus. but unlike you i've not been forced to alter my argument altho yours has had to shift several times and despite the tevision is still a chamberpot load of faeces. e2a for tevision read revision



You don't have an argument son, except that 'over 7' means several hundred, so I think you are pissed.

From the National Heritage Fund Memorial website:

_The National Heritage Memorial Fund (NHMF) announced today an award of nearly £1million (£934,115) for the creation of a national memorial to honour over seven million service and civilian women who made such an important contribution to the war effort during World War II.  The memorial, the first of its kind in the UK, will be placed on Whitehall near the Cenotaph, and is expected to be unveiled in June 2005. 

There are already monuments to women from World War II in Canada, the United States of America, New Zealand and Australia *but 60 years after the end of the War, the UK has yet to commemorate the role of UK women.*_

Stop avoiding the question: Do you condemn the memorial's desecration or not?


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Christ, that has to be the most pathetic argument for desecrating a war memorial I've ever heard!!
> 
> '_I had no choice but to spray "fuck" on a war memorial cos everywhere else was fenced off!!'_
> 
> ....And you call me a dick.



You can note on several occasions I've said it was a stupid thing to do, I'm merely explaining what was the likely reason behinf it. 

Still not worth acting like its setting a mosque on fire or trampling on someones religious beliefs. Paint really does wash off, and in a riot people do daft things.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> You don't have an argument son, except that 'over 7' means several hundred, so I think you are pissed.
> 
> From the National Heritage Fund Memorial website:
> 
> ...


i wasn't aware it had been consecrated.

and while you might think you're clever for quoting from the nhmf website, the fact remains that the monument states - as it does - 'the women of world war 2' and not something else you might prefer it to say, which might be more apposite to the purpose for which it was conceived.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> You don't have an argument son, except that 'over 7' means several hundred, so I think you are pissed.
> 
> From the National Heritage Fund Memorial website:
> 
> ...


if anyone's pissed here, it's you. you remind me of nothing more than some poundshop pisshead bore who latches onto something he thinks is a good point with drunken determination and keeps a good hold of it throughout an argument heedless of the facts that his argument's holy.


----------



## Santino (May 10, 2015)

Why is there no men's memorial?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i wasn't aware it had been consecrated.
> 
> and while you might think you're clever for quoting from the nhmf website, the fact remains that the monument states - as it does - 'the women of world war 2' and not something else you might prefer it to say, which might be more apposite to the purpose for which it was conceived.
> 
> if anyone's pissed here, it's you. you remind me of nothing more than some poundshop pisshead bore who latches onto something he thinks is a good point with drunken determination and keeps a good hold of it throughout an argument heedless of the facts that his argument's holy.



Right, so the people who put up the monument don't know what it's actually for!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Right, so the people who put up the monument don't know what it's actually for!


they made it perfectly clear on the monument.


----------



## Spymaster (May 10, 2015)

It's a memorial to the women of the UK who served in WW2.

Now, what's the argument about???


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> It's a memorial to the women of the UK who served in WW2.
> 
> Now, what's the argument about???



Yer mam


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> It's a memorial to the women of the UK who served in WW2.
> 
> Now, what's the argument about???


andrew hertford wants everyone to agree with him about something


----------



## Spymaster (May 10, 2015)

Santino said:


> Why is there no men's memorial?



That's all the others.

Except for the silly animal one.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 10, 2015)

So I take it that plod have viewed the numerous CCTV footage available, & have arrested whoever vandalised the memorial then?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> So I take it that plod have viewed the numerous CCTV footage available, & have arrested whoever vandalised the memorial then?


i note andrew hertford's finally fallen silent.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i note andrew hertford's finally fallen silent.



Apart from being a fucking bellend, Andrew's also an agent provocateur?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Apart from being a fucking bellend, Andrew's also an agent provocateur?


and - even worse - a pub bore.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> and - even worse - a pub bore.



Warrants execution imo.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Warrants execution imo.


we shall drown him in a tun of watney's red barrel. so he can be a final convert to the red revolution.


----------



## brogdale (May 10, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> So I take it that plod have viewed the numerous CCTV footage available, & have arrested whoever vandalised the memorial then?



So they say...but they would, wouldn't they?


> Detectives are trawling hours of CCTV footage to track down a protester who sprayed “Fuck Tory scum” on the monument to the women of the second world war on Whitehall.
> 
> Ch Supt Gerry Campbell said: “The vast majority of those protesting did so peacefully. However a small, violent minority were intent on causing disorder.
> 
> ...


----------



## brogdale (May 10, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> That's all the others.
> 
> Except for the silly animal one.



You mean this one defaced by 'vandals' with the same colour spray paint?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> You can note on several occasions I've said it was a stupid thing to do, I'm merely explaining what was the likely reason behinf it.
> 
> Still not worth acting like its setting a mosque on fire or trampling on someones religious beliefs. Paint really does wash off, and in a riot people do daft things.



Fair enough mate. My mum worked making Lancaster bombers right through the war, she lived near Manchester and the area where she lived got hit several times, particularly by a flying bomb which killed five of her neighbours. her boyfriend (my dad) was at Dunkirk and also fought at Monte Cassino. Her brother was a POW for much of the war and she lost a cousin who was a pilot. Both my mum and gran went through a lot,

I think women deserved to have their own memorial. All I expect from my fellow tory haters on here is condemnation of the twat who decided to spray graffiti on it rather than the half hearted excuses we've been getting.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 10, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> It's a memorial to the women of the UK who served in WW2.
> 
> Now, what's the argument about???



Thank you, it is indeed.

As the uniforms around it confirm, it's a memorial to all the UK women who worked for the war effort in the forces, hospitals, factories and farms.

Pi's Model seemed to think it commemorates women of the world, allied and otherwise, and got his knickers in a twist when I pointed out that he was wrong.


----------



## Spymaster (May 10, 2015)

brogdale said:


> You mean this one defaced by 'vandals' with the same colour spray paint?



Aye.


----------



## AC14 (May 10, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> It's interesting to watch this on the live feeds.
> 
> We live in a democracy (allegedly) not an elected dictatorship: it is perfectly proper and right that people robustly express their opinion about government policy. To put it bluntly, gaining 36% of the votes cast does not give any government any sort of mandate to screw us into poverty for the benefit of their rich friends and they should expect protest and resistance every step of the way. Also, fuck off you twat.



So who does have a mandate from this election? Tory + UKIP got over 50% of the vote. It's clear what people have voted for, much as you and I and urban75 don't like it.


----------



## brogdale (May 10, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Aye.


"*Cry havoc!..."*


----------



## jakethesnake (May 10, 2015)

AC14 said:


> So who does have a mandate from this election? Tory + UKIP got over 50% of the vote. It's clear what people have voted for, much as you and I and urban75 don't like it.


Freedom, democracy and so on are best thought of as _continual_ rather than _episodic_... we are not free once every 5 years (when we vote) and then relinquish our voice and just accept whatever and do as we are told until the next election - in a true democracy we continually question and challenge those who would seek to rule us. Sorry for calling you a twat btw, I am very grumpy at the moment and it has made me unnecessarily rude.


----------



## Santino (May 10, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Freedom, democracy and so on are best thought of as _continual_ rather than _episodic_... we are not free once every 5 years (when we vote) and then relinquish our voice and just accept whatever and do as we are told until the next election - in a true democracy we continually question and challenge those who would seek to rule us. Sorry for calling you a twat btw, I am very grumpy at the moment and it has made me unnecessarily rude.


Probably is a twat though.


----------



## smokedout (May 10, 2015)

AC14 said:


> So who does have a mandate from this election? Tory + UKIP got over 50% of the vote. It's clear what people have voted for, much as you and I and urban75 don't like it.



firstly why do you assume all the ex labour voters who went to ukip support the tories?  if they did they would have voted tory.

secondly when the richest 20% of the country vote to attack the poorest 20% I'll fight against that and so should anyone else who isnt a twat, I couldn't give a fuck who claims to have a mandate


----------



## cantsin (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Erg, idiots, this is how to make sure people don't listen to what your saying



ffs, young twits do it every time nowadays, it'll be cleaned off by today, spare us the am dram


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 10, 2015)

cantsin said:


> ffs, young twits do it every time nowadays, it'll be cleaned off by today, spare us the am dram



Just had this argument mate, lets not start again (and I agree with you)


----------



## cantsin (May 10, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Just had this argument mate, lets not start again (and I agree with you)



(fair enough, didn't get through the thread)


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Putting aside your ignorance about the memorial, what's your point exactly? Are you trying to defend spraying 'fuck the tories' on it?



No-one sprayed "fuck the tories" on it, you armpit.
They sprayed "fuck Tory scum".
If you're going to pontificate (and Satan knows it's pretty much *all* you do), then at least get it right.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> It's a lump of stone ffs.
> 
> Or is it bronze?



The sculpture itself is bronze, the plinth (which was what got sprayed) is stone, and come monday evening will have been cleaned by a conservator with no harm done.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2015)

Wilf said:


> AH - it was a dickish thing to do, but comparing it to swastikas on Mosques is fucking silly. Misplaced though it was, the 'fuck the Tories' was unrelated to the memorial, the memorial was just a surface (perhaps an 'official surface' but still just a surface). Swastikas on Mosques is *aimed at* the Mosque. Got it?



Hertford has a history of mis-comparing things. Ask him about _Kristallnacht_.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> No one say Kristallnacht.



Damn! Wish I'd read that a minute sooner!


----------



## Casually Red (May 11, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Freedom, democracy and so on are best thought of as _continual_ rather than _episodic_... we are not free once every 5 years (when we vote) and then relinquish our voice and just accept whatever and do as we are told until the next election - in a true democracy we continually question and challenge those who would seek to rule us.



It's how that's done, and how effectively it's done which is the issue though . Protests not enough in my view . Not saying its your view either mind .


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> It's how that's done, and how effectively it's done which is the issue though . Protests not enough in my view . Not saying its your view either mind .


So what more? Violent clashes with the police?  I'm asking seriously; how do we get heard and make changes?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 11, 2015)

AC14 said:


> So who does have a mandate from this election? Tory + UKIP got over 50% of the vote. It's clear what people have voted for, much as you and I and urban75 don't like it.



Only true if you think all Tory and UKIP voters want the same things...which is very very unlikely.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Santino (May 11, 2015)

Maharani said:


> So what more? Violent clashes with the police?  I'm asking seriously; how do we get heard and make changes?


Strikes. Protest against non-government targets like bankers, accountancy firms, newspapers - close their buildings down. Prevent evictions. Organise against bailiffs. Rent strikes.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The sculpture itself is bronze, the plinth (which was what got sprayed) is stone, and come monday evening will have been cleaned by a conservator with no harm done.



"_No harm done"_? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.

Will you condemn the vandalising of a memorial to women? Or like pickman's model would you rather not say?


----------



## Santino (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> "_No harm done"_? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.
> 
> Will you condemn the vandalising of a memorial to women? Or like pickman's model would you rather not say?


What harm has been done?

Did you think that people who might otherwise have come to oppose the neo-liberal oligarchy through direct action and resistance have been put off it by that story?


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 11, 2015)

Santino said:


> What harm has been done?
> 
> Did you think that people who might otherwise have come to oppose the neo-liberal oligarchy through direct action and resistance have been put off it by that story?



Its not done em any favours thats for sure, makes it easier to dismiss the protesters as a bunch of troublemakers and ignorant yoofs

Can we end this now before we have another 6 pages of arguing?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

Santino said:


> What harm has been done?
> 
> Did you think that people who might otherwise have come to oppose the neo-liberal oligarchy through direct action and resistance have been put off it by that story?



The what?? The harm is the insult to the women who served in WW2.


----------



## Santino (May 11, 2015)

Yes, without that piece of graffiti, newspapers would have turned in thoughtful editorials about the good intentions and admirable spirit of the protesters.


----------



## Santino (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> The what?? The harm is the insult to the women who served in WW2.


How many of them have you spoken to about it?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> The what?? The harm is the insult to the women who served in WW2.


did they want that monument? do you think the soldiers who died in ww1 wanted the fucking cenotaph? do you think the cenotaph was universally welcomed and admired? tell you what, why don't you fuck off and we'll say no more about it.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> "_No harm done"_? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.
> 
> Will you condemn the vandalising of a memorial to women? Or like pickman's model would you rather not say?


i'd have quite happily offered my opinion to anyone who asked nicely but not to a posturing hectoring worthless piece of shit cunt like you


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> did they want that monument? do you think the soldiers who died in ww1 wanted the fucking cenotaph? do you think the cenotaph was universally welcomed and admired? tell you what, why don't you fuck off and we'll say no more about it.
> 
> i'd have quite happily offered my opinion to anyone who asked nicely but not to a posturing hectoring worthless piece of shit cunt like you



Christ, you need a bit of anger management son.

All I did was point out that you were wrong about what the memorial is for and ask you if you condemned someone spraying graffiti on it. You obviously do not.

If you want to believe that the memorial about something that it isn't then go right ahead, no one's going to lose any sleep over it.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Christ, you need a bit of anger management son.


i don't need any lectures from a patronising posturing worthless piece of shit about how to conduct myself.





> You obviously do not.


you don't know whether i do or not because i haven't told you. so fuck off with your insinuations based on fuck all.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> If you want to believe that the memorial about something that it isn't then go right ahead, no one's going to lose any sleep over it.


you've been at great pains to show you know better than anyone what the inscriptions on the monument mean. i suspect you have been losing sleep over it. you're really something of a loser.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> "_No harm done"_? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.



Given the context and content of my post, it was blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't an idiot that I meant that no harm was done to the physical substance of the memorial.

Which means that your post was written by an idiot.



> Will you condemn the vandalising of a memorial to women? Or like pickman's model would you rather not say?



I'll happily condemn it, just as I'll happily condemn the sort of shithead who tries to catch people out with stupid questions like yours above.


----------



## Spymaster (May 11, 2015)

Santino said:


> What harm has been done?



I suppose that depends on the motivation of whoever did it.

If it was to express anger at the election result, it worked, but probably at the expense of the support of a lot of folk who may otherwise have sympathised with the scrawler.

If it was to garner anti-tory support, the action was about as appropriate as daubing "Fuck Cricket" on a statue of Mandela.

As far as misdirected anger is concerned it's pretty spectacular given that Downing Street, the MoD, the Foreign Office, the DoH, DWP, and even a fucking McDonalds were all within spitting distance!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> I suppose that depends on the motivation of whoever did it.
> 
> If it was to express anger at the election result, it worked, but probably at the expense of the support of a lot of folk who may otherwise have sympathised with the scrawler.
> 
> ...


i'm not so sure you're right


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't need any lectures from a patronising posturing worthless piece of shit about how to conduct myself.
> 
> you don't know whether i do or not because i haven't told you. so fuck off with your insinuations based on fuck all.
> 
> you've been at great pains to show you know better than anyone what the inscriptions on the monument mean. i suspect you have been losing sleep over it. you're really something of a loser.



The people who put up the memorial know what it was for. I quoted what they said, remember? 

Your refusal to condemn the vandalising of a memorial to the women of WW2 speaks volumes.


----------



## co-op (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> "_No harm done"_? Are you mad? It's been pasted all over the media, the image will never go away.



It's funny what does go away sometimes though. 

I mentioned upthread the defacing of the cenotaph in 2002 and the fact that no one was ever prosecuted for that despite a hysterical campaign by the Daily Mirror which included photos of all the perps, a campaign which was pulled abruptly after 2 days. 

Several other posters have posted up photos of that event and by implication who did it (PKK etc) when actually the point is that that was the grafitting of Churchill's statue (which could make sense of why a Kurdish group would want to deface it), not the cenotaph.

Anyway I thought I'd check to see what was sprayed on the cenotaph so I've had a good long search for an image of that and it seems to have completely disappeared from the internet. 

Funny that.

*puts on tinfoil helmet* - and I'm not taking it off til someone finds a photo...


----------



## Santino (May 11, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> If it was to express anger at the election result, it worked, but probably at the expense of the support of a lot of folk who may otherwise have sympathised with the scrawler.


Do you really think so? Have you ever met anyone whose opinion of anti-government protests was genuinely swayed by such a thing?

How insulting it is to someone's intelligence to think that they can't understand that not everyone on a protest supports the actions of everyone on it, or that, in the grand scheme of things, scrawling a naughty swear word is not that significant.

Do you think the protesters can trick people into supporting them by pretending to be nice? Maybe it would be better if they all marched peacefully from one arbitrary spot to another and then listened to a few speeches.


----------



## beareis (May 11, 2015)

Protest!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...owners-10-tax-for-tory-voters-sign-goes-viral


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2015)

Yea saw that on FB. Fair play to him.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

co-op said:


> It's funny what does go away sometimes though.
> 
> I mentioned upthread the defacing of the cenotaph in 2002 and the fact that no one was ever prosecuted for that despite a hysterical campaign by the Daily Mirror which included photos of all the perps, a campaign which was pulled abruptly after 2 days.
> 
> ...



There is this from 2002:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/734074.stm


----------



## co-op (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> There was is from 2002:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/734074.stm



Good. The tinfoil was starting to get a bit sweaty. But it's a spectacularly odd bit of grafitti and I still can't find any reference to anyone getting prosecuted for it.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> The people who put up the memorial know what it was for. I quoted what they said, remember?
> 
> Your refusal to condemn the vandalising of a memorial to the women of WW2 speaks volumes.


no, i am not refusing to condemn it i am refusing to be forced.to condemn it.


----------



## Santino (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no, i am not refusing to condemn it i am refusing to be forced.to condemn it.


I order you to sing the national anthem, TWICE, to prove your loyalty.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no, i am not refusing to condemn it i am refusing to be forced.to condemn it.



No one's forcing you, just asking you if you do.


----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> There is this from 2002:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/734074.stm


Interesting that link isn't it, all the huffing and puffing from Blair and Straw, architects of a million or so Iraqi, British and American dead. Blair has also managed to enrich himself by millions as a result of being in public office. And let's not forget Straw taking £12,000 a year from the monsters in Kazakhstan - oh and currently on suspension from the Labour Party - yes, too corrupt even for Labour - for offering to ask, well, anything in Parliament in exchange for cash.  Yes, it was stupid to dawb stuff on a monument., but there are some real war criminals out there if you want to get angry/


----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no, i am not refusing to condemn it i am refusing to be forced.to condemn it.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> No one's forcing you, just asking you if you do.


i have already expressed my opinion of you sufficiently


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i have already expressed my opinion of you sufficiently



I don't care what your opinion of me is, I was asking you if you'll condemn the defacing of the memorial and it's become clear that you will not.

If you think the act was in some way justified then at least have the courage of your convictions and explain why.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> I don't care what your opinion of me is, I was asking you if you'll condemn the defacing of the memorial and it's become clear that you will not.
> 
> If you think the act was in some way justified then at least have the courage of your convictions and explain why.


what i have said, and i repeat it here for the hard of thinking, is that i'm not going to play your little game. now fuck off.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what i have said, and i repeat it here for the hard of thinking, is that i'm not going to play your little game. now fuck off.



What 'little game'? I asked you if you condemn what happened. If you don't want to answer, fine, but then why do you keep on replying??


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> What 'little game'? I asked you if you condemn what happened. If you don't want to answer, fine, but then why do you keep on replying??


why do you keep answering? i would have thought even one of your stunted intellect would realise that when you're told in no uncertain terms to fuck off further replies would only be considered rude.

now fuck off and don't fucking bother replying. you're nothing but the human (i use the word in its loosest sense) equivalent of a fly-ridden puddle of putrescent vomit. i hope i make myself clear.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> why do you keep answering? i would have thought even one of your stunted intellect would realise that when you're told in no uncertain terms to fuck off further replies would only be considered rude.
> 
> now fuck off and don't fucking bother replying. you're nothing but the human (i use the word in its loosest sense) equivalent of a fly-ridden puddle of putrescent vomit. i hope i make myself clear.



But you haven't made yourself clear, that's the whole problem!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> But you haven't made yourself clear, that's the whole problem!


which part of 





> now fuck off and don't fucking bother replying


didn't you understand?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> which part of didn't you understand?



Now you're ordering me not to reply to your posts? 

I'll keep replying for as long as you keep replying to me without answering the simple question I put to you.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Now you're ordering me not to reply to your posts?
> 
> I'll keep replying for as long as you keep replying to me without answering the simple question I put to you.


i did answer your fucking question you thick as pigshit pissed-up cunt. you just don't like the fucking answer. now fuck off.


----------



## shaman75 (May 11, 2015)

Just found this vid.  Missed the actual event, as the crowd started to walk off from Downing Street, with calls to go to Buckingham Palace and I was ahead of it.  I remember people suddenly starting to walk back towards Downing Street and then there was a few moments of panic as hundreds started running away again.

It was all pretty peaceful until this point.  No smoke grenades, no missiles, just some marching about really with stop offs at Tory HQ, Parliament square, Westminster Bridge and Downing Street (several times).  But something happened (at around 4 mins in), because the Police seem to go in hard after a few people and it all kicked off.


----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2015)

That looked like a reasonable turnout.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

shaman75 said:


> Just found this vid.  Missed the actual event, as the crowd started to walk off from Downing Street, with calls to go to Buckingham Palace and I was ahead of it.  I remember people suddenly starting to walk back towards Downing Street and then there was a few moments of panic as hundreds started running away again.
> 
> It was all pretty peaceful until this point.  No smoke grenades, no missiles, just some marching about really with stop offs at Tory HQ, Parliament square, Westminster Bridge and Downing Street (several times).  But something happened (at around 4 mins in), because the Police seem to go in hard after a few people and it all kicked off.



the police presumably got orders to go in hard. so something happened before that, as there would be a delay while the order was transmitted to units.


----------



## shaman75 (May 11, 2015)

Looks like a group dressed in black trying to escape as the crowd moves off and one of them gets nicked


----------



## Spymaster (May 11, 2015)

shaman75 said:


>




At 6.13 does someone, possibly the guy who's filming, shout "you fucking black bastard"? 

There's a black copper in the line.


----------



## shaman75 (May 11, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> At 6.13 does someone, possibly the guy who's filming, shout "you fucking black bastard"?
> 
> There's a black copper in the line.



Does sound like that.


----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> At 6.13 does someone, possibly the guy who's filming, shout "you fucking black bastard"?
> 
> There's a black copper in the line.


Almost certainly the bloke filming, the camera shakes with the chanting (unless it's somebody stood next to them - just possible it's somebody pressed against them).  Whoever it is, a stupid racist fuck.

Edit: exactly the same voice throughout the video, you can hear it's definitely the filmmaker as he talks to a couple of people 19.35 onwards. Twat.


----------



## krink (May 11, 2015)

The bit about 4 minutes looks like a cop goes into the demo and snatches someone and then loads of protestors and cops pile in.


----------



## Spymaster (May 11, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Almost certainly the bloke filming, the camera shakes with the chanting (unless it's somebody stood next to them - just possible it's somebody pressed against them).  Whoever it is, a stupid racist fuck.
> 
> Edit: exactly the same voice throughout the video, you can hear it's definitely the filmmaker as he talks to a couple of people 19.35 onwards. Twat.



And where are all the coppers when someone_ really needs_ a kicking?


----------



## Nice one (May 11, 2015)

there's other, better, footage of the incident flying about. Coppers had been trailing some black bloc kiddies,  and a couple of coppers went into the crowd to try and pull them out, fail and every other copper piles into the crowd.

In terms of the guy shouting black bastard, did he have an irish accent (haven't got sound on my computer). In certain areas, especially northern ireland it's regarded  as general term of abuse against the police and not supposed to be a racial insult or racially directed.


----------



## Nice one (May 11, 2015)

.


----------



## Spymaster (May 11, 2015)

Nice one said:


> In terms of the guy shouting black bastard, did he have an irish accent (haven't got sound on my computer).



No. Northern England.

And he says "black bastard" not "bastard's".


----------



## shaman75 (May 11, 2015)

Nice one said:


> there's other, better, footage of the incident flying about.



links?


----------



## Nice one (May 11, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> No. Northern England.
> 
> And he says "black bastard" not "bastard's".



aye it was northern/manc class war comrade who used the expression himself on a demo in london, explained the origins of the term re: northern ireland


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Nice one said:


> aye it was northern/manc class war comrade who used the expression himself on a demo in london, explained the origins of the term re: northern ireland


if you're thinking of dsei he was from yorkshire.


----------



## Nice one (May 11, 2015)

shaman75 said:


> links?


----------



## Nice one (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if you're thinking of dsei he was from yorkshire.



i am indeed. Amazed we didn't get a pasting for it


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 11, 2015)

Nice one said:


> aye it was northern/manc class war comrade who used the expression himself on a demo in london, explained the origins of the term re: northern ireland



Black and Tans? Still not a good thing to be shouting, quite obscure.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Nice one said:


> i am indeed. Amazed we didn't get a pasting for it


yes, i understand it lost something in translation for the local youth.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> I don't care what your opinion of me is, I was asking you if you'll condemn the defacing of the memorial and it's become clear that you will not.
> 
> If you think the act was in some way justified then at least have the courage of your convictions and explain why.





> *To those of you who are furious about the “Women of World War II” graffiti:* Yes, one person did this, and the vast majority of protesters in no way supported it. But using this act to vilify an entire movement is ignorant and simplistic, and a dirty tactic being used by the Tory-controlled right wing media to draw attention away from the point of yesterday’s protests. Surprise fucking surprise. It’s also absolutely laughable that Tories are crawling out from all corners of social media to condemn this act in the strongest possible terms, claiming that it’s “disrespectful to the women of the past”. Such indignation coming from Tories, who support a party which is inherently anti-woman, is sickening. From a Prime Minister who openly mocks women in the House of Commons, to cuts of 30% to support services for domestic and sexual violence survivors, not to mention the fact that austerity in general disproportionately affects women and particularly single mothers. I’m pretty sure that the women of World War II would have something to say about that. So self-righteous Tories, pipe the fuck down – you don’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to defending women. Furthermore, (and I can’t believe how many times I have had to reiterate this in the last few months), if you’re more angry about someone spray painting on a memorial, than people being physically brutalised by the police, you need to sort your fucking priorities out. If you think that respecting the dead is more important than respecting the living, what do you stand for?
> 
> https://warwick4freeducation.wordpress.com/2015/05/10/reflections-on-fuckthetories/



Nuff said!


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> At 6.13 does someone, possibly the guy who's filming, shout "you fucking black bastard"?
> 
> There's a black copper in the line.


Yes I heard him. Fucking racist cunt.


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

Nice one said:


> there's other, better, footage of the incident flying about. Coppers had been trailing some black bloc kiddies,  and a couple of coppers went into the crowd to try and pull them out, fail and every other copper piles into the crowd.
> 
> In terms of the guy shouting black bastard, did he have an irish accent (haven't got sound on my computer). In certain areas, especially northern ireland it's regarded  as general term of abuse against the police and not supposed to be a racial insult or racially directed.


No he sounded like he was from the north west, like Manchester or somewhere near there...

Even if it is a derogatory term for the police in NI you'd have to be a bit stupid to say it in London.


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Nuff said!


Brilliant. 

There's another good answer for you Andrew Hertford. Are you a Tory supporter btw?


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

So defacing ww2 memorials and racism.  Fucking muppets !


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> So defacing ww2 memorials and racism.  Fucking muppets !



Can't comment on your second point as I wasn't there & the video isn't conclusive. Regards the memorial, fuck it.


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> So defacing ww2 memorials and racism.  Fucking muppets !


Did you not read Mr.Bishie's post above re the memorial?!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

Did it fuck.


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

I read his "theory",  yes.  Personally I belive it was actual brainless cunt with no respect.  Anyone defending such actions if a fucking idiot.  End off.  If I saw someone do that I'd turn their lights out.

Dosen't matter who's side your on.  Some things are just plain wrong


----------



## Fingers (May 11, 2015)

Make of this what you will, I didn't see it happen....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> I read his "theory",  yes.  Personally I belive it was actual brainless cunt with no respect.  Anyone defending such actions if a fucking idiot.  End off.  If I saw someone do that I'd turn their lights out.



Theory? Are you on fucking crack?


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

Fingers said:


> View attachment 71391
> 
> Make of this what you will, I didn't see it happen....


Wouldn't put it past the bastards.


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

So you saw it happen ?


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> So you saw it happen ?


Who are you asking?


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 11, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> No. Northern England.
> 
> And he says "black bastard" not "bastard's".




The police are often referred to as _black bastards_ in the NE, and he says _pig cunt_ beforehand.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> So you saw it happen ?



Did you?


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

That's a no then.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> Dosen't matter who's side your on.  Some things are just plain wrong



fuck off lol


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

2 well constructed conspiracy theories.


"Police done it"

And

"He's from Ireland so it not racist"

I'll leave you geniuses to it.

Enjoy the next 5 years


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> 2 well constructed conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> "Police done it"
> ...


Erm, who said these things? 

You're clearly unable to read.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> 2 well constructed conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> "Police done it"
> ...



You're definitely on crack. Off you fuck.


----------



## Spymaster (May 11, 2015)

sunnysidedown said:


> The police are often referred to as _black bastards_ in the NE, and he says _pig cunt_ beforehand.



If you say so. But he calls them cunts and other things multiple times and given that he only uses "black bastard" once, in the singular, in the entire 20 minutes, when there's one black copper on the line in front of him, I think there's every chance that he's a racist fuckpig.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> I read his "theory",  yes.  Personally I belive it was actual brainless cunt with no respect.  Anyone defending such actions if a fucking idiot.  End off.  If I saw someone do that I'd turn their lights out.
> 
> Dosen't matter who's side your on.  Some things are just plain wrong


so you'd object to graffiti on a nazi memorial, say to one horst wessel?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> So you saw it happen ?


you voted tory didn't you?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> so you'd object to graffiti on a nazi memorial, say to one horst wessel?



Of course it would, cos it's a crack head. It'd piss its pants come the gunfire.


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you voted tory didn't you?





Pickman's model said:


> so you'd object to graffiti on a nazi memorial, say to one horst wessel?



When I said "side". You think I was talking about the war you dumb cunt ?


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 11, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> If you say so. But he calls them cunts and other things multiple times and given that he only uses "black bastard" once, in the singular, in the entire 20 minutes, when there's one black copper on the line in front of him, I think there's every chance that he's a racist fuckpig.



He shouts _pig cunt_ (singular) right before shouting _black bastard. _As someone who grew up in the NE there's nothing being verbally directed there that I find particularly objectionable.

Of course he could turn out to be a racist with a can of red spray paint on his person, we'll never know.


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> When I said "side". You think I was talking about the war you dumb cunt ?


Oh my, that doesn't even make sense!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> When I said "side". You think I was talking about the war you dumb cunt ?



No one knows what the fuck you're on about tbf. A memorial got sprayed, so fucking what?


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> When I said "side". You think I was talking about the war you dumb cunt ?


I'd get your coat if I was you...


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

Maharani said:


> Oh my, that doesn't even make sense!



Selective understanding!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> When I said "side". You think I was talking about the war you dumb cunt ?


you seemed to be objecting to graffiti on monuments. i wondered if that was the case under any or all circumstances.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> Selective understanding!



That's you alright!


----------



## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> Selective understanding!


No, you just don't make sense.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

Pass me the Purdey & lets make a start.


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you seemed to be objecting to graffiti on monuments. i wondered if that was the case under any or all circumstances.



and which monument  celebrating Nazism you referring too?   Because im not aware of any


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> and which monument  celebrating Nazism you referring too?   Because im not aware of any



lol


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> and which monument  celebrating Nazism you referring too?   Because im not aware of any


would you have any objection to a nazi monument being defaced or do you only save your bile for british memorials? simple question.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

Andrew & Mr Fear on the fucking magic roundabout.


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

Fucking Nazi monuments?	fuck off


fuck are you on about?


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2015)

I think it was a thought experiment but nevermind


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Andrew & Mr Fear on the fucking magic roundabout.



round and round in circles 
yea talking to you does feel a bit like that to be fair.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> Fucking Nazi monuments?	fuck off
> 
> 
> fuck are you on about?


i'll take that as a no, then, that your froth is just manufactured and of no real substance. run along now toryboy


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

teqniq said:


> I think it was a thought experiment but nevermind


sadly ffsear a thought experiment gone wrong


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2015)

I shouldn't laugh, but ....


----------



## ffsear (May 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i'll take that as a no, then, that your froth is just manufactured and of no real substance. run along now toryboy



Think i will,	I don't have time to argue with some washed up loser who spends his life on the internet.  Trying to drag me into a debate about Nazi's!	 Classic!

  Thread is on ignore p.s!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> Think i will,	I don't have time to argue with some washed up loser who spends his life on the internet.  Trying to drag me into a debate about Nazi's!	 Classic!
> 
> Thread is on ignore p.s!



You're a wrongun & make no mistake!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> You're a wrongun & make no mistake!


he's brave sir robin


----------



## cantsin (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> 2 well constructed conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> "Police done it"
> ...



l8rs big man


----------



## jakethesnake (May 11, 2015)

ffsear said:


> Thread is on ignore p.s!


When ffsear goes to bed, all his friends go to bed


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> When ffsear goes to bed, all his friends go to bed


yes his five-fingered friend


----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2015)

ffsear, your party have just got permission to do another 5 years of things like killing disabled people.  Your _fuckwittery_ however remains unchanged and appears to have a lifetime lease.


----------



## Casually Red (May 11, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Black and Tans? Still not a good thing to be shouting, quite obscure.



Actually it has a few origins ...black enamel bastard , black and amber bastard or just plain black bastard . There's a sect of Masonic Orangemen over here known as the black perceptory..who wear black sashes . Also the traditional colour of the RUC uniform and the B specials uniform was black too ...a very dark green that looked black .It can basically be interchanged between cops and loyalists in equal measure . In fact in its fullest sense it actually means " bigoted bastard  " , ironically enough .

Idiotic to be shouting it in England obvs .


----------



## Wilf (May 12, 2015)

I suspect Spymaster 's reading of it is more likely, though there's a _chance_ it would be the Irish insult. Anyway, no obvious way of proving it.


----------



## Casually Red (May 12, 2015)

Unlikely in the context I'd have thought .


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 12, 2015)

I've stuck the headphones on and it goes a little something like this...

5.55 - _Wankers _
6.00 - _Fucking_ _Black Bastards 
6.10 - Fucking Pig Cunt(s)
6.13 - You Fucking Black Bastards_
Followed by lots of _Scum, Scum_ up until around 7.02 when he shouts something twice that I can't understand_.
_
Angry? yes, racist? no.


_


_


----------



## shaman75 (May 12, 2015)




----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Maharani said:


> Brilliant.
> 
> There's another good answer for you Andrew Hertford. Are you a Tory supporter btw?



If you'd read my previous posts you would know I'm not a tory, I'm someone who's mum was one of the seven million honoured by the memorial.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i did answer your fucking question you thick as pigshit pissed-up cunt. you just don't like the fucking answer. now fuck off.



Saying you're not going to answer a question because the person who asked it is "a piece of shit cunt" isn't the same as actually answering it.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

So we have someone desecrating a memorial to women workers and someone else shouting "Black bastard" at a black policeman.

Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish the crowd from the real enemy.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Saying you're not going to answer a question because the person who asked it is "a piece of shit cunt" isn't the same as actually answering it.


i responded to your question, which is answering it. now return to under the stone from whence you wriggled.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> If you'd read my previous posts you would know I'm not a tory, I'm someone who's mum was one of the seven million honoured by the memorial.


your mum eh


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i responded to your question, which is answering it. now return to under the stone from whence you wriggled.



But you didn't answer it. Why can't you condemn the attack on the memorial? Everyone else on here can.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> But you didn't answer it. Why can't you condemn the attack on the memorial? Everyone else on here can.


i can tho. what makes you think i can't?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i can tho. what makes you think i can't?



So tell us, do you condemn the attack on the memorial or not?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> So tell us, do you condemn the attack on the memorial or not?


are you sure you're not losing sleep over this? do you know how to keep a fool in suspense?


----------



## Spymaster (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> So tell us, do you condemn the attack on the memorial or not?



Give it a rest, ffs.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford i'll tell you next week


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> are you sure you're not losing sleep over this? do you know how to keep a fool in suspense?



Someone vandalised a memorial to women workers of WW2 and someone else it now transpires shouted "black bastard" at a black police officer. 

This is serious shit, so if your best response is to sneer and turn it into one of your public school games of one upmanship like the ones you probably used to play in the dorm after the lights went out then go ahead, but doing so merely shows you up to be the fool, not me.


----------



## AC14 (May 12, 2015)

OK, I get all that, but the point was that the Tories have more of a mandate than most others, and we know that UKIP voters are more likely to be in favour of the Tories than Labour. 
As much of a mandate as can be given by an election has been given.


----------



## shaman75 (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> So we have someone desecrating a memorial to women workers and someone else shouting "Black bastard" at a black policeman.
> 
> Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish the crowd from the real enemy.



Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish the crowd from society.


----------



## Blagsta (May 12, 2015)

AC14 said:


> OK, I get all that, but the point was that the Tories have more of a mandate than most others, and we know that UKIP voters are more likely to be in favour of the Tories than Labour.
> As much of a mandate as can be given by an election has been given.



Much of the ukip vote came from labour


----------



## butchersapron (May 12, 2015)

AC14 said:


> OK, I get all that, but the point was that the Tories have more of a mandate than most others, and we know that UKIP voters are more likely to be in favour of the Tories than Labour.
> As much of a mandate as can be given by an election has been given.


Leaving aside the logical and evidential problems of the start of your post, are you really suggesting no stronger possible mandate to govern has ever been and could ever be given?


----------



## Libertad (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Someone vandalised a memorial to women workers of WW2 and someone else it now transpires shouted "black bastard" at a black police officer.



You would appear not to have read a series of posts made after you took to your bed last night.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Someone vandalised a memorial to women workers of WW2 and someone else it now transpires shouted "black bastard" at a black police officer.
> 
> This is serious shit, so if your best response is to sneer and turn it into one of your public school games of one upmanship like the ones you probably used to play in the dorm after the lights went out then go ahead, but doing so merely shows you up to be the fool, not me.


is it serious shit? is it more serious than people topping themselves because of benefit cuts? is it more important than the beggaring of the nhs thru pfi? is it more important than anelectoral system that gives a party with 36% of the turnout more than 50% of the sests in parliament? get a fucking sense of perspective.


----------



## Wilf (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> So we have someone desecrating a memorial to women workers and someone else shouting "Black bastard" at a black policeman.
> 
> Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish the crowd from the real enemy.


That's it though, it isn't, it really isn't.  We've got one person who daubed something on a monument and we've got one person who may have shouted something racist.  I'm happy to condemn the former as stupid and the latter as a lot worse (if of course the comment was as it sounded/seemed). Beyond that, you've got austerity, regular death by atos/maximus and a tsunami of shit coming down over the next few years. You've also got a Labour Party who buy into the same ideas and were indeed in power when the deregulated investment banking system fucked us over (oh and were party to the deaths of a million or more people).  Anyway, good on anybody who got involved in the demo and good on anybody willing to get stuck in over the next few years.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

anyway Andrew Hertford that's shut you up


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 12, 2015)

Wilf said:


> We've got one person who daubed something on a monument and we've got one person who may have shouted something racist.  I'm happy to condemn the former as stupid and the latter as a lot worse (if of course the comment was as it sounded/seemed).



with regards to the latter person, maybe this bit of dialogue at 4.44 could help clear a few things up.



or you could just check the rest of his YT channel to get feel of what he's about instead of continuing with the shock-horror of a few posters on this thread.

these are well worth watching btw.


----------



## cesare (May 12, 2015)

I don't really care if it's a normal figure of speech on Mars - it's still fucking stupid in london.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 12, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> No one knows what the fuck you're on about tbf. A memorial got sprayed, so fucking what?



What's important is *remembering/the ACT of remembrance*, not the pieces of stone or lumps of bronze that make up the memorials.
Those who mistake memorials for remembrance are...well, insert your own expletive. I'll go with "cunts".
<and...relax!>


----------



## Wilf (May 12, 2015)

sunnysidedown said:


> with regards to the latter person, maybe this bit of dialogue at 4.44 could help clear a few things up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was pretty obvious from the first video that the bloke has sound anticapitalist politics.  Same time you can't ignore what he shouted. I'm happy to accept that in the context of what he believes and who he is it may well have been an innocent turn of phrase. Still leaves it as a deeply stupid thing to shout in London as Cesare said.  Anyway, the more I get into the detail of what he shouted, the more I'm ignoring my point to Andrew H (about the bigger picture being what's important here).


----------



## StoneRoad (May 12, 2015)

But for many, those lumps of stone or bronze act as a focus for their act of remembrance, so they are offended if said items are disrespected. A point of view that I can appreciate.


----------



## Spymaster (May 12, 2015)

sunnysidedown said:


>




"Faults Imprisonment"


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Libertad said:


> You would appear not to have read a series of posts made after you took to your bed last night.



I was working til the early hours, so I did. The evidence that shouting "You black bastard" wasn't racist in this instance is flimsy to say the least.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> is it serious shit? is it more serious than people topping themselves because of benefit cuts? is it more important than the beggaring of the nhs thru pfi? is it more important than anelectoral system that gives a party with 36% of the turnout more than 50% of the sests in parliament? get a fucking sense of perspective.



No one's saying it is, but racist abuse and vandalising a memorial to women workers of WW2 is serious in it's own way and deserves condemnation, don't you agree?


----------



## Santino (May 12, 2015)

I wouldn't condemn the graffiti, but I might be persuaded to call for it to cease.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> No one's saying it is, but racist abuse and vandalising a memorial to women workers of WW2 is serious in it's own way and deserves condemnation, don't you agree?


show me a monument dedicated to women workers and some racist abuse and we'll take things from there.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> show me a monument dedicated to women workers and some racist abuse and we'll take things from there.


Head in the sand? 

Or somewhere even darker?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Santino said:


> I wouldn't condemn the graffiti



Why not?


----------



## Santino (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Why not?


 I don't have all the facts to hand. Also, just can't be arsed.


----------



## Santino (May 12, 2015)

Furthermore, getting into a tizz about a relatively minor matter seems counterproductive, distracting attention away from the more important issues. You're Michael Gove insisting that union leaders condemn the behaviour of some minor branch official - it's a dirty tactic to shift the focus away from more pressing matters.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Head in the sand?
> 
> Or somewhere even darker?


there is no monument to women workers on whitehall although there is monument to women


----------



## Flavour (May 12, 2015)

can't believe people are wound up about graffiti on a fucking memorial. _it disrespects me mam! _give over.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

only ah and what a pair of initials those are


Flavour said:


> can't believe people are wound up about graffiti on a fucking memorial. _it disrespects me mam! _give over.


----------



## Spymaster (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> there is no monument to women workers on whitehall although there is monument to women



Well it commemorates the work done by women, so it may not commemorate _women_ at all.


----------



## Lucy Fur (May 12, 2015)




----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Santino said:


> Furthermore, getting into a tizz about a relatively minor matter seems counterproductive, distracting attention away from the more important issues. You're Michael Gove insisting that union leaders condemn the behaviour of some minor branch official - it's a dirty tactic to shift the focus away from more pressing matters.





Pickman's model said:


> there is no monument to women workers on whitehall although there is monument to women



Lol at the squirming and pathetic excuses. I’m just suggesting you condemn two acts which most people will find offensive.


----------



## Spymaster (May 12, 2015)




----------



## teqniq (May 12, 2015)




----------



## Santino (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Lol at the squirming and pathetic excuses. I’m just suggesting you condemn two acts which most people will find offensive.


Will you condemn the likes of Gove and Cameron using the 'will you condemn?' tactic to avoid issues and degrade the quality of political debate?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Lol at the squirming and pathetic excuses. I’m just suggesting you condemn two acts which most people will find offensive.


is this monument to women workers identical to the monument to women killed in the fight against fascism?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Lol at the squirming and pathetic excuses. I’m just suggesting you condemn two acts which most people will find offensive.


you've already admitted it's not that serious. so why are you carrying on like some sort of obsessive sadarse loon?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you've already admitted it's not that serious. so why are you carrying on like some sort of obsessive sadarse loon?



You're the one carrying on sunshine. You made clear that you don't give a fuck for the memorial or about some racist shouting "You Black Bastard" ages ago. So why are you still bleating about it?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you've already admitted it's not that serious. so why are you carrying on like some sort of obsessive sadarse loon?



Where have I admitted that racism like that isn't serious?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Where have I admitted that racism like that isn't serious?


some posts up


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> You're the one carrying on sunshine. You made clear that you don't give a fuck for the memorial or about some racist shouting "You Black Bastard" ages ago. So why are you still bleating about it?


i have not commented on the bb comments so how you knowwhat i think of it is something  of a mystery. equally i have said nothing which can be construed as not giving a fuck for the memorial. you seem rather overwrought and i would suggest you sit down in a dark room for a while.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Where have I admitted that racism like that isn't serious?


tbh you did say it was serious in its own way. what way is that?


----------



## Spymaster (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> You're the one carrying on sunshine. You made clear that you don't give a fuck for the memorial or about some racist shouting "You Black Bastard" ages ago. So why are you still bleating about it?



Fucking Ayda, geezer. You're an arse.

I'm fucked off because I actually have some sympathy with your position but you've argued it so fucking badly that you've shut down sensible debate.

I'm all for running one up Pickers; it should be a sport; but he's had you left, right, and center.

Do us a favour and bail out.


----------



## Santino (May 12, 2015)

Santino said:


> Will you condemn the likes of Gove and Cameron using the 'will you condemn?' tactic to avoid issues and degrade the quality of political debate?


His silence speaks volumes.


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## Jeff Robinson (May 12, 2015)

Santino said:


> Will you condemn the likes of Gove and Cameron using the 'will you condemn?' tactic to avoid issues and degrade the quality of political debate?



http://decentpedia.blogspot.co.uk/2007/08/will-you-condemn-thon.html


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## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Fucking Ayda, geezer. You're an arse.
> 
> I'm fucked off because I actually have some sympathy with your position but you've argued it so fucking badly that you've shut down sensible debate.
> 
> ...



You're just playing into his hands, this isn't a game and it isn't the school debating society where the winner wins a night out with matron. He either condones the racist abuse and vandalising of the memorial, or he doesn't and his ego is too fat to admit it. What do you think?


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> You're just playing into his hands, this isn't a game and it isn't the school debating society where the winner wins a night out with matron. He either condones the racist abuse and vandalising of the memorial, or he doesn't and his ego is too fat to admit it. What do you think?


i think you're a sad obsessive who should get out more. what boots it what i think about this? what's it fucking matter? i've asked you repeatedly not to engage with me on this subject: but back you come, time and again, like some sort of sad stalker. other people have said your behaviour shows you in a poor light. could you back the fuck off and consider your behaviour before giving me the apology i so richly deserve.


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## Andrew Hertford (May 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you're a sad obsessive who should get out more. what boots it what i think about this? what's it fucking matter? i've asked you repeatedly not to engage with me on this subject: but back you come, time and again, like some sort of sad stalker. other people have said your behaviour shows you in a poor light. could you back the fuck off and consider your behaviour before giving me the apology i so richly deserve.



It's you who keeps on coming back for fuck's sake! You've made it clear you don't want to discuss the memorial or the racist abuse and I get that, so why are you still following me around? 

And it was you who engaged with me first by the way by trying to tell me the memorial was something that it wasn't. 

Let's leave it there.


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## teqniq (May 12, 2015)

*loses the will to live*


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## Santino (May 12, 2015)

teqniq said:


> *loses the will to live*


Will YOU condemn the 'will you condemn?' debating trick so beloved by Tories?


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## J Ed (May 12, 2015)

Wilf said:


> That's it though, it isn't, it really isn't.  We've got one person who daubed something on a monument and we've got one person who may have shouted something racist.  I'm happy to condemn the former as stupid and the latter as a lot worse (if of course the comment was as it sounded/seemed). Beyond that, you've got austerity, regular death by atos/maximus and a tsunami of shit coming down over the next few years. You've also got a Labour Party who buy into the same ideas and were indeed in power when the deregulated investment banking system fucked us over (oh and were party to the deaths of a million or more people).  Anyway, good on anybody who got involved in the demo and good on anybody willing to get stuck in over the next few years.



Yes, well this is 2015 where microaggressions are ruthlessly punished and stigmatised while macroaggressions are praised for punishing the undeserving


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## rekil (May 12, 2015)

.


Nice one said:


> there's other, better, footage of the incident flying about. Coppers had been trailing some black bloc kiddies,  and a couple of coppers went into the crowd to try and pull them out, fail and every other copper piles into the crowd.
> 
> In terms of the guy shouting black bastard, did he have an irish accent (haven't got sound on my computer). In certain areas, especially northern ireland it's regarded  as general term of abuse against the police and not supposed to be a racial insult or racially directed.


It's also a term of abuse for people descended from those who 'took the soup' and converted to protestantism in order to avail of food relief during the famine, and in some cases subsequently accumulated a lot of land from surrounding neighbours who were forced to sell up. I remember my mate telling me of one such family of snobs in his area known locally as the "black (Whatevs)" - Black man in Irish is "fear gorm" - "blue man".


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## butchersapron (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Lol at the squirming and pathetic excuses. I’m just suggesting you condemn two acts which most people will find offensive.


Do you do anything else on other than invite people to condemn things? If so, can you just...well you've had many years to do something  else, just go away?


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## butchersapron (May 12, 2015)

copliker said:


> .
> 
> It's also a term of abuse for people descended from those who 'took the soup' and converted to protestantism in order to avail of food relief during the famine, and in some cases subsequently accumulated a lot of land from surrounding neighbours who were forced to sell up. I remember my mate telling me of one such family of snobs in his area known locally as the "black (Whatevs)" - Black man in Irish is "fear gorm" - "blue man".


there was a conversation on here in 2001 about this, not the same but at the use of of an undertstanding of.


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## Spymaster (May 12, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> You're just playing into his hands, this isn't a game and it isn't the school debating society where the winner wins a night out with matron. ...



Thanks.

My mum was a Wren, dad was RAF, and my son is a currently serving Royal Marine_._

Stick your "debating society" right up your arse.


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## Jeff Robinson (May 12, 2015)

Great article here. Largely sums up how I feel.

https://warwick4freeducation.wordpress.com/2015/05/10/reflections-on-fuckthetories/


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## shifting gears (May 12, 2015)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Great article here. Largely sums up how I feel.
> 
> https://warwick4freeducation.wordpress.com/2015/05/10/reflections-on-fuckthetories/



Yeah - sums up the kind of bristling anger that I and no doubt many others are feeling.   They may have a 5 year 'mandate' - but we've got one too. Time to stir shit right up.


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## Casually Red (May 13, 2015)

Just a thought on that monument thing . Some years back at an anarchist demo in Dublin a few twat kids put anarchist slogans on the James Connolly statue . Place went ballistic . Day or 2 later a group of anarchists went down and cleaned it off . They also put the valid enough point if those people who wre going crackers cared about the statue so much why didn't they clean it instead of leaving it to others . Too late I'm sure to do anything about it now , but might be worth bearing in mind for the future if it happens again . A good photo op and publicity that would shut some people up . Prevent distractions .


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Yeah - sums up the kind of bristling anger that I and no doubt many others are feeling.   They may have a 5 year 'mandate' - but we've got one too. Time to stir shit right up.


i believe the phrase is 'to fuck shit up'


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## Spymaster (May 13, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Just a thought on that monument thing . Some years back at an anarchist demo in Dublin a few twat kids put anarchist slogans on the James Connolly statue . Place went ballistic . Day or 2 later a group of anarchists went down and cleaned it off . They also put the valid enough point if those people who wre going crackers cared about the statue so much why didn't they clean it instead of leaving it to others . Too late I'm sure to do anything about it now , but might be worth bearing in mind for the future if it happens again . A good photo op and publicity that would shut some people up . Prevent distractions .



Yeah. I used to get really wound up about people fucking about with war memorials. That tit swinging on the cenotaph would've got my boot up his arse if I were there, and I did start to get pissed off about this on the women's memorial. But for me, the motivation is what's important. People who desecrate Jewish graves, or graffiti mosques, should be nicked, but I think it's likely that whoever scrawled on the women's memorial simply saw it as a convenient surface. Probably didn't even know what it was.


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## bi0boy (May 13, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Just a thought on that monument thing . Some years back at an anarchist demo in Dublin a few twat kids put anarchist slogans on the James Connolly statue . Place went ballistic . Day or 2 later a group of anarchists went down and cleaned it off . They also put the valid enough point if those people who wre going crackers cared about the statue so much why didn't they clean it instead of leaving it to others . Too late I'm sure to do anything about it now , but might be worth bearing in mind for the future if it happens again . A good photo op and publicity that would shut some people up . Prevent distractions .



Not going to happen here. In a race between the Westminster street cleansing teams and a bunch of organised anarchos there can only be one winner.


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## Casually Red (May 13, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Yeah. I used to get really wound up about people fucking about with war memorials. That tit swinging on the cenotaph would've got my boot up his arse if I were there, and I did start to get pissed off about this on the women's memorial. But for me, the motivation is what's important. People who desecrate Jewish graves, or graffiti mosques, should be nicked, but I think it's likely that whoever scrawled on the women's memorial simply saw it as a convenient surface. Probably didn't even know what it was.



One twat with a spray can is an irritant .not the end of the world . But the opportunity it gives the scum to deflect and misdirect the coverage and the entire message of the protests , as well as causing divisions, should be impressed on everyone engaging in them beforehand .
The fact is whatever peoples opinions many ordinary people have a lot of reverence for those memorials . Anyone defacing one is being a twat and undermining the entire effort, handing penalty kicks to the scum .

In the meantime , new laws coming in making it seriously difficult to go on strike..legally...in the public sector . Tories want a ballot threshold that if applied to themselves would mean they weren't allowed in government . Meanwhile that massively annoying cunt boris Johnson is jokingly comparing his cabinet post to a zero hour contract..and pointing out that doesn't make it a proper job . Rubbing noses in it .

They aren't hanging about, that's for sure . Full steam ahead .


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## Andrew Hertford (May 13, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Do you do anything else on other than invite people to condemn things? If so, can you just...well you've had many years to do something  else, just go away?



That’s not what I was doing, I was inviting him to explain why he _wouldn’t _condemn them. If someone refuses to condemn acts of racism or vandalism then what’s wrong with asking them why?


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## butchersapron (May 13, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> That’s not what I was doing, I was inviting him to explain why he _wouldn’t _condemn them. If someone refuses to condemn acts of racism or vandalism then what’s wrong with asking them why?


I don't just invite people to condemn things, I also ask them why they don't.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> That’s not what I was doing, I was inviting him to explain why he _wouldn’t _condemn them. If someone refuses to condemn acts of racism or vandalism then what’s wrong with asking them why?


so much for "let's leave it there" you dishonest little shit.


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## Santino (May 13, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> That’s not what I was doing, I was inviting him to explain why he _wouldn’t _condemn them. If someone refuses to condemn acts of racism or vandalism then what’s wrong with asking them why?


_Why won't_ you condemn the nauseating and despicable debating tactic, so beloved of the Conservative Party, of insisting people condemn things in order to distract attention from wider issues?


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## Andrew Hertford (May 13, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I don't just invite people to condemn things, I also ask them why they don't.


...Which is what I just said.


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## Casually Red (May 13, 2015)

I can understand someone's strong reluctance to engage in condemnation when there's a media bandwagon going full tilt against the protestors ,and a very understandable reluctance to be seen giving it any credence . When we all know it's a hypocritical distraction by the very same people cutting essential services for elderly, veterans etc . And an attempt to demonise all protestors .

My own take on it is it's unfortunate, better that it hadn't happened, but ultimately the work of one twat with a tin and not worth getting exercised about . And the lesser evil is simply to move on and not get overly hung up about it, which is what the scum want .


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> ...Which is what I just said.


oh do fuck off you pious cunt


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## Andrew Hertford (May 13, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> so much for "let's leave it there" you dishonest little shit.
> 
> oh do fuck off you pious cunt



I meant let's leave it there between you and me. So why are you still following me around like a demented puppy?


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## Santino (May 13, 2015)

He still can't bring himself to condemn the likes of Cameron and Gove.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> I meant let's leave it there between you and me. So why are you still following me around like a demented puppy?


so you'll carry it on without me. you just proved how utterly dishonest and mendacious you are.


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## Andrew Hertford (May 13, 2015)

Santino said:


> He still can't bring himself to condemn the likes of Cameron and Gove.



What on Earth makes you say that? I've been condemning the tories and the right all my life, particularly Gove since 2010.


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## Santino (May 13, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> What on Earth makes you say that? I've been condemning the tories and the right all my life, particularly Gove since 2010.


And yet you refuse to condemn the vile and childish 'will you condemn?' rhetorical manoeuvre upon which they depend to prevent discussion of genuine policy differences.


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## Santino (May 13, 2015)

Look at him squirming.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> What on Earth makes you say that? I've been condemning the tories and the right all my life, particularly Gove since 2010.


on the grounds they're not harsh enough no doubt


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## Spymaster (May 13, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> dishonest and mendacious



Aren't they the same?


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Aren't they the same?


not entirely


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## Andrew Hertford (May 13, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Just a thought on that monument thing . Some years back at an anarchist demo in Dublin a few twat kids put anarchist slogans on the James Connolly statue . Place went ballistic . Day or 2 later a group of anarchists went down and cleaned it off . They also put the valid enough point if those people who wre going crackers cared about the statue so much why didn't they clean it instead of leaving it to others . Too late I'm sure to do anything about it now , but might be worth bearing in mind for the future if it happens again . A good photo op and publicity that would shut some people up . Prevent distractions .



Yep, a good lesson. Acknowledging stupid and offensive acts isn't that difficult and it goes a long way in removing the danger of alienating people. Common sense really.


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## Andrew Hertford (May 13, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> on the grounds they're not harsh enough no doubt



You are easily the most arrogant knobhead I’ve ever come across on any forum, the fact that you’re a product of the English public school system stands out a mile. You’ve already made it clear you won’t talk about the women’s memorial or the racist abuse, so why are you still stalking me? Why don’t you go spend some time on a forum where you can debate with a few actual tories for once instead of spending half the day on here calling socialists “pious cunts”?


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## treelover (May 14, 2015)

P/M's a public schoolboy? well my my, that explains a lot.


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2015)

Andrew Hertford said:


> You are easily the most arrogant knobhead I’ve ever come across on any forum, the fact that you’re a product of the English public school system stands out a mile. You’ve already made it clear you won’t talk about the women’s memorial or the racist abuse, so why are you still stalking me? Why don’t you go spend some time on a forum where you can debate with a few actual tories for once instead of spending half the day on here calling socialists “pious cunts”?


i'm not calling socialists pious cunts, i'm calling you a pious cunt. and a liar.


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2015)

Andrew Hertford you say "let's leave it", the next thing you're carrying it on only behind my back. you're the architect of this exchange carrying on through your decision to introduce demands for me to condemn the graffiti on the monument and a shout you claim is racist. yet you insist, against the evidence, despite my asking you forcefully to cease your demands for condemnation and stop several pages back, you insist i'm stalking you  you're no socialist, not even of the national sort, you're a sad arse who refuses to condemn the tories (see Santino's posts passim) while making claims about other posters for which you have no evidence beyond claims of arrogance. now would be a good time for you to leave the thread.


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## shaman75 (May 14, 2015)

Nice video here:


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Fucking Ayda, geezer. You're an arse..
> 
> I'm fucked off because I actually have some sympathy with your position but you've argued it so fucking badly that you've shut down sensible debate.
> 
> ...



It's Hertford. He hasn't got the_nous_ or the insight to realise he's snookered himself.
It's a pity butchersapron said not to mention _kristallnacht_, or I'd mention _kristallnacht_.


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## Spymaster (May 15, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's Hertford. He hasn't got the_nous_ or the insight to realise he's snookered himself.
> It's a pity butchersapron said not to mention _kristallnacht_, or I'd mention _kristallnacht_.



What's the significance of kristallnacht?


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## tufty79 (May 15, 2015)

If i'd known there would be a tory majority, i'd have baked a cake last week

 

Austerity cake, tbf - a third of the recommended quantities, and no proper icing bag 


I was searching for thatcher death cakes a while back and couldn't find any - think i might try my hand at a 'still dead' one next


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## DotCommunist (May 15, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> What's the significance of kristallnacht?


on a march against cuts some black Bloc masked up gentleman and/or/ ladies stoved in a few bank windows. 

AH decried this as similar to kristellnacht


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## Maharani (May 15, 2015)

shaman75 said:


> Nice video here:



ACE!


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## sunnysidedown (May 16, 2015)

cesare said:


> I don't really care if it's a normal figure of speech on Mars - it's still fucking stupid in london.



Sorry I missed this. I'm not saying it's a normal figure of speech and that it should be accepted as such, it's pretty obvious that shouting that as term of abuse could easily be mistaken, as has been proved on this thread.

I was surprised as most on here when I listened to the original clip, not due to the alleged racist nature but as a term of abuse that i've not heard being used against the police in years (possibly decades) and mainly at the football in the eighties (Newcastle). I couldn't work out why someone at a demo that looked to be made up of mainly young people would have someone shouting that out. So checking out his other videos reveals him to be a bloke in (I think) his 50's, and from Darlington. 

It was odd watching that video of the protest and seeing all these references to the 80's, Joy Division & Cramps T-Shirts, a Sergio Tacchini tracksuit top and someone shouting black bastards at the cops... all that was needed was a majority tory government in power.


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## Casually Red (May 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> on a march against cuts some black Bloc masked up gentleman and/or/ ladies stoved in a few bank windows.
> 
> AH decried this as similar to kristellnacht






That's fucking brilliant 

Really shouldn't be posting at 11 in the morning while inebriated....but kristallnacht..


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## Casually Red (May 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> P/M's a public schoolboy? well my my, that explains a lot.



Little lord Fauntleroy..innit

Fucking kristallnacht...stilll giggling about that one


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## Pickman's model (May 17, 2015)

*


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## ViolentPanda (May 18, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> What's the significance of kristallnacht?



Hertford compared a couple of broken bank windows to _kristallnacht_ - the setting of the Nazi hounds on German Jewry and the expropriation of what property remained to them - basically the realisation of the Nuremberg laws.
He's somewhat of a hyperbolic twat, is Hertford.


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## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Hertford compared a couple of broken bank windows to _kristallnacht_ - the setting of the Nazi hounds on German Jewry and the expropriation of what property remained to them - basically the realisation of the Nuremberg laws.
> He's somewhat of a hyperbolic twat, is Hertford.


he talks a lot of hyperbollocks


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## Pickman's model (Jun 27, 2015)

.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 27, 2015)

AC14 said:


> So who does have a mandate from this election? Tory + UKIP got over 50% of the vote. It's clear what people have voted for, much as you and I and urban75 don't like it.


you're either lying or you can't add up. according to the bbc (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results) the tory party got 36.9% of the vote. ukip got 12.6% of the vote. i make that a total of 49.5%, which is - albeit only traditionally - less than 50%.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 24, 2017)

come in AC14 i'm still waiting for an answer

e2a: oops, yer man seems to have left the building 

as you were


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## bi0boy (Feb 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> you're either lying or you can't add up. according to the bbc (Results of the 2015 General Election - Election 2015 - BBC News) the tory party got 36.9% of the vote. ukip got 12.6% of the vote. i make that a total of *49.5%*, which is - albeit only traditionally - less than 50%.



49.56595473% actually, so you really ought to have said 49.6%.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 25, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> 49.56595473% actually, so you really ought to have said 49.6%.


Perhaps you could show your working


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## Libertad (Feb 25, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> 49.56595473% actually, so you really ought to have said 49.6%.



Not if you were being accurate to eight decimal places.


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## Andrew Hertford (Feb 26, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Fucking Ayda, geezer. You're an arse.
> 
> I'm fucked off because I actually have some sympathy with your position but you've argued it so fucking badly that you've shut down sensible debate.
> 
> I'm all for running one up Pickers; it should be a sport; but he's had you left, right, and center.



Yeah… of course….

Thanks mate, if I ever need your advice then I'll ask for it.


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## waxoyl (Oct 1, 2017)

Fuck the tories Manchester is red
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






.


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## teqniq (Oct 1, 2017)




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## waxoyl (Oct 1, 2017)

in town today good turn out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 


.


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## mather (Oct 1, 2017)

waxoyl said:


> Fuck the tories Manchester is red
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't see much red there, just a lot of blue giving support to a neo-liberal cartel.


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## waxoyl (Oct 2, 2017)

Your right . like the puppet but a bit to fucking blue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








.


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