# I need to switch careers



## Quartz (Mar 22, 2013)

To whom can a middle-aged fart like me go for a sensible chat about switching careers? I've just about had it with IT call centre work.


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## yield (Mar 22, 2013)

Quartz said:


> To whom can a middle-aged fart like me go for a sensible chat about switching careers? I've just about had it with IT call centre work.


What would you like to do? What are you good at?


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 22, 2013)

national careers service?

never had anything to do with them (wonder if i should)

appears to be open to all - think some services are only there if you're on the dole or some such but may be worth a further look.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Mar 22, 2013)

What aspect of call centre work do you most enjoy? What calls do you prefer the most?


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 22, 2013)

There is no kind of professional  who can offer sensible, actionable careers advice. You're essentially asking someone what sort of activities would make you, personally, happier or less sad. No-one can do that. Not even close friends and family.


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## Epona (Mar 23, 2013)

Quartz said:


> To whom can a middle-aged fart like me go for a sensible chat about switching careers? I've just about had it with IT call centre work.


 
I'm in the same boat and don't have the answer. I want to move into IT, (there are a few areas of IT work that I am interested in - database management or Citrix administration are areas I am keen to learn), from unskilled admin work, and it's like running up against a brick wall.

Back in the day, it always used to be the case that you could get work experience in a new field by volunteering, but these days a lot of volunteer roles seem to expect fully qualified people (ie. the organisation just wants qualified people to work for free in a job they could get paid to do elsewhere, rather than providing hands-on experience and training to a newcomer to the field in exchange for volunteer labour).

If there are any urbanites who would be interested in having me volunteer for them whilst I can learn skills and receive on-the-job training and work experience, I would be immensely grateful for the opportunity.


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## gabi (Mar 23, 2013)

Luck. That's all I can suggest. Although I'm also a great believer in that old maxim about making your own luck.

Apply for jobs you want to do. Despite not having the requisite experience/qualifications. See what happens.


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## Quartz (Mar 24, 2013)

yield said:


> What would you like to do?


 
That's part of the problem. I'd like to learn what's possible. For example, if only I'd learned of the actuarial profession 25 years ago.


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## Bob_the_lost (Mar 24, 2013)

Epona said:


> I'm in the same boat and don't have the answer. I want to move into IT, (there are a few areas of IT work that I am interested in - database management or Citrix administration are areas I am keen to learn), from unskilled admin work, and it's like running up against a brick wall.


Experience, qualifications or luck* are needed.

Luck is the easiest of the three really, throw enough applications out and eventually you'll get something. The other two will help to reduce the failure rate.

SQL is an easy one to prepare for, there's loads of online courses and stuff like the Microsoft DBA certifications can be done without a major outlay of capital. Loads of time needed but you can pass the exam without it. The qualification should then be used as a way to get in the door for the interview, admit the lack of experience but use it as a way to say 'I really want to do this and have been preparing for X years'.

Citrix is a tricky one, it's a smaller market, more niche and less roles. You can still get a certification but I don't know how possible/easy it is to do without experience or access to software.

Experience is king but if you don't have it then Qualifications help.


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## MillwallShoes (Mar 24, 2013)

semi-similar position...
i'll finally have my OU degree this year, 2-1 on cards. after a decade in working soul destroying, unskilled jobs, i really want to try and use it to break into somewhere. at 31, i don't really rate my chances of starting a "glittering" career...there's probably a million or so graduates in the same boat, difference is they're 21!

if all fails, i'll become a minicab driver...good pay and relative freedom as most are self-employed posts. quite like driving too, especially in london as there's always so much going on around. haven't got the spare time to learn the knowledge for a black cab position though 

i've even looked at london bus driving...good wage, secure, relatively easy to get a job in...but what a job it is  dealing with potentially violent/abusive people, etc

have to see what happens. good at the moment because i'm looking after child whilst my wife is working.


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## 8115 (Mar 24, 2013)

I sort of know this feeling.  The only things I can suggest is a bit of life coaching (not free though) or even counselling (again probably not free).  Otherwise I think it's left to you, research careers, talk to friends and families, think about your strengths, make getting a new job into a project iyswim.  I think the OP is looking for careers guidance for adults and I don't know that that is available anywhere anymore.


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## Poot (Mar 24, 2013)

I've just sat a GCSE in biology and am sitting the AS level in June (again - oops!). Maybe think about your goal before you think about how to achieve it? But it doesn't hurt to get a few extra qualifications under your belt. It shows willing, at least.


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## Quartz (Mar 24, 2013)

Poot said:


> Maybe think about your goal ...


 
That's exactly what I need help doing. I need to decide on my goal, and to do that I need to know what my realistic options are.


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## Poot (Mar 24, 2013)

Quartz said:


> That's exactly what I need help doing. I need to decide on my goal, and to do that I need to know what my realistic options are.


It depends on your lifestyle. Do you have a family to support? Are you able to move house? Do you have a pension? Any savings? A partner? Can you travel? These are probably the first considerations. 

Then maybe think about whether you like to work with the public? As part of a team? Customer facing? Think about what your strengths are. Is there something really left field that you've always really fancied doing? Maybe you're a bit jealous of people in a certain profession? I don't think career professionals can help you as much as your own imagination can


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## Quartz (Mar 24, 2013)

Poot said:


> Is there something really left field that you've always really fancied doing?


 
More to the point, is there anything really right field of which I'm not aware?


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## Poot (Mar 24, 2013)

Quartz said:


> More to the point, is there anything really right field of which I'm not aware?


Accountancy. But you're probably aware of that


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## weltweit (Mar 24, 2013)

Quartz said:


> To whom can a middle-aged fart like me go for a sensible chat about switching careers? I've just about had it with IT call centre work.


 
When I was a teenager my dad took me to a careers consultant of some kind. I filled in a massive multiple choice questionnaire and when it had been decoded the consultant told us where my strengths lay and suggested that if I followed them I would probably enjoy my working life more than in another career.

I don't know what such a consultant is called these days but I dare say a few phone calls around agencies should find them.


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 24, 2013)

I think I recall that questionnaire. It was deployed at my school, and for some reason decided that almost all of us would be most fulfilled as chiropodists.

E2A: Cascaid. That was it.


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## Lord Camomile (Mar 24, 2013)

Quartz said:


> More to the point, is there anything really right field of which I'm not aware?


I think this is the problem for me too. I have a very vague idea of what I want to get from a job, but have no idea if there's a job out there like that. Need someone who knows various industries who could suggest a few options, stuff that I currently probably don't even know exists.

It's knowing where to start looking that's the problem


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## weltweit (Mar 24, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> I think I recall that questionnaire. It was deployed at my school, and for some reason decided that almost all of us would be most fulfilled as chiropodists.
> 
> E2A: Cascaid. That was it.


At my Uni they had a Careers questionnaire on PC, it usually said I should either be a librarian or a marketing manager. I figured the librarian bit was somehow picking up on how much time I was spending in the Uni library at the time.


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## Thora (Mar 24, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> semi-similar position...
> i'll finally have my OU degree this year, 2-1 on cards. after a decade in working soul destroying, unskilled jobs, i really want to try and use it to break into somewhere. at 31, i don't really rate my chances of starting a "glittering" career...there's probably a million or so graduates in the same boat, difference is they're 21!
> 
> if all fails, i'll become a minicab driver...good pay and relative freedom as most are self-employed posts. quite like driving too, especially in london as there's always so much going on around. haven't got the spare time to learn the knowledge for a black cab position though
> ...


What's your degree in?


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## junglevip (Mar 24, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> There is no kind of professional who can offer sensible, actionable careers advice. You're essentially asking someone what sort of activities would make you, personally, happier or less sad. No-one can do that. Not even close friends and family.


 
Get a trade.  You can always make a few quid with a trade and then take the rest of your life to find out what it is you would like to do


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## MillwallShoes (Mar 24, 2013)

eng lit and language (please don't judge my level of competence in the English language on here - i just rattle off posts!). I just need get at least a third this year and i will get a 2-1...


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## MillwallShoes (Mar 24, 2013)

junglevip said:


> Get a trade. You can always make a few quid with a trade and then take the rest of your life to find out what it is you would like to do


 
any tips on ones that are easy to get going in? the one's i have looked at like boiler maintenance take a good ten years or so to really get going...


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## junglevip (Mar 24, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> any tips on ones that are easy to get going in? the one's i have looked at like boiler maintenance take a good ten years or so to really get going...


 
I like carpentry myself, I tried electrics but it did not work out for other reasons.  As an ex programer I feel your pain, the thing to do is build up some experience on the side.  Just give something a go, you'll learn a lot from trying and making mistakes.

That's the thing, there is no easy route, all require mistakes, grief and uncertainty.  Its worth doing though... ... .. .


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## Maggot (Mar 24, 2013)

Epona said:


> I'm in the same boat and don't have the answer. I want to move into IT, (there are a few areas of IT work that I am interested in - database management or Citrix administration are areas I am keen to learn), from unskilled admin work, and it's like running up against a brick wall.
> 
> Back in the day, it always used to be the case that you could get work experience in a new field by volunteering, but these days a lot of volunteer roles seem to expect fully qualified people (ie. the organisation just wants qualified people to work for free in a job they could get paid to do elsewhere, rather than providing hands-on experience and training to a newcomer to the field in exchange for volunteer labour).
> 
> If there are any urbanites who would be interested in having me volunteer for them whilst I can learn skills and receive on-the-job training and work experience, I would be immensely grateful for the opportunity.


Have you tried do-it?  A great place for volunteering opportunities. http://www.do-it.org.uk/


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 24, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> i've even looked at london bus driving...good wage, secure, relatively easy to get a job in...but what a job it is  dealing with potentially violent/abusive people, etc


 
just a thought on this -

yes, the job has a certain element of crap, although you're generally behind a screen, with a CCTV camera above your head, and you've got a radio / GPS system with an "oh shit" button on it.

Also, most if not all of the front line supervisor posts (either out on the streets or at the garages) are recruited from within, i.e. drivers getting promotion, rather than recruited direct.  Since the pay / conditions / status of bus driving has fallen a lot in the last 30 years or so, the proportion of people coming on as bus drivers who are suitable for this isn't as great as it was.

The downside is that each London bus route is a franchise, granted for about 5 years at a time.  Where a route moves (say) from Arriva to Abelio (or whoever) then drivers tend to get TUPE transferred to the new operator.  Supervisors who don't work wholly on that route aren't always TUPE-able, and there is some risk of redundancy, and it can lead to a bit of yo-yoing between driver and controller jobs.

More senior management on the buses tends (to a varying degree depending on which of the big companies it is) to be recruited either as 'experienced managers' or to be products of the graduate training scheme on the manager-go-round (one of the big PLC's seems to view "manager of the month" as a job title not an award).  There are still a very few people who can make it from driver to depot manager, but it's even less likely than it ever was.

The other question is whether, with age discrimination laws, companies (and I now mean in general rather than just the bus business) who do run graduate trainee schemes are going to be able to cope with mature graduates rather than bunch of 21-ish year olds. 

The last big company I worked for had the sort of graduate trainee scheme that included bollocks like going and climbing mountains in the lake district (and this from a company that was so health & safety mad* that you were hardly allowed to cross the road on your own when you were working.)

* - and I mean this in the sense of 'without any regard to the actual risk of what you were doing and the appropriateness of H&S measures for that task.  You don't need to apply the safety measures for working in an oil refinery to going out to visit a client at their town centre office.)


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## MillwallShoes (Mar 24, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> just a thought on this -
> 
> yes, the job has a certain element of crap, although you're generally behind a screen, with a CCTV camera above your head, and you've got a radio / GPS system with an "oh shit" button on it.
> 
> ...


interesting, thanks. did you work as a bus driver? how did you find it?


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## Quartz (Mar 24, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> The other question is whether, with age discrimination laws, companies (and I now mean in general rather than just the bus business) who do run graduate trainee schemes are going to be able to cope with mature graduates rather than bunch of 21-ish year olds.


 
Simple. They state on the job requirement that they're looking for people with potential. Older folks don't have the same potential that younger ones do, so they don't get hired.


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 24, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> interesting, thanks. did you work as a bus driver? how did you find it?


 
I work in the bus business, but have not been a driver full time

Sorry for the short answer - about to head off to work...


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 25, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> interesting, thanks. did you work as a bus driver? how did you find it?


 
A few more thoughts on bus driving...

In terms of getting shit from passengers, while some passengers are going to be irredeemable twunts, to some extent the more you look for trouble, the more likely you are to get it.

In London at least, the amount of cash handling involved is getting ever smaller as more people do the lobster card thing.  However, even on buses where the driver handles no cash at all (some operators outside London have a system where passengers have to put their exact fare into a box which the driver can't open) there is still the potential for arguments over invalid passes etc.

Arguments can also arise over having too many people wanting to get push-chairs on to the bus

In London, the early / late shifts tend to be more so than much of the 'deregulated' world elsewhere, where most buses only tend to run about 0700 to 1800ish Monday to Saturday.  On daytime routes, buses start running about 0400 and finish about 0100.  Then there are night buses / 24 hour routes.  There are 'drivers hours' rules in law about how many hours you can work without a break / in any one day or week, and minimum time off between duties.  There may be local agreements between employer and union that improve on the legal minimum.

With some operators, night duties are on a separate rota, so some staff are on regular nights, with others, it's done in turn.  A few operators offer staff a 'no early shifts' or 'no late shifts' rota but not sure this is very common.  There is a fairly general tendency of some overtime / rest day working, it's also usually acceptable to swap duties / rest days with other drivers - so long as all concerned stay within drivers hours rules and keep the office informed.

In London, lots of buses are on each route, that you tend to do a full day / week's work on the same route.  Traditionally, staff rotas in London were such that you tended to work one route all / most of the time (or maybe one of two routes) rather than all the routes at your garage - this will now vary from one operator to another.

Since there's a lot of people doing (in effect) the same job, 'seniority' (i.e. length of service) counts for quite a bit in things like getting on to a favoured route / rota.

When you start, the tendency used to be to put you on 'spare' duties (i.e. covering for anyone who is sick / late) which meant at the start of your service, you had to know all the routes.  Some operators have realised this isn't a great deal of fun, so have one or two fairly simple routes they start people on.

Generally, if you go in from outside, you'd start on smaller buses (can be harder work as some of the back street routes with lots of speed humps and parked cars are a pain in the arse) and have the chance to move on to a bigger bus route as vacancies arise on other routes' rotas.  There are pay differentials - it used to be that smaller buses meant smaller pay, although some operators now give pay enhancements after a year or two of service rather than link it to the sort of bus.

Of the London operators, I'd probably give the edge to Go-Ahead as potential employer of choice.

The 'red book' referred to (and linked) from this page is TfL's bus driver handbook (now public domain due to FoI) - this covers the TfL elements of the job - each bus company will have its own rule book for the depot / vehicle specific stuff.

Also, this (semi fictionalised) book may be worth a look.

Most operators take people without a PCV (bus driver's licence) on - although as the employment market is currently, many prefer to take on people with an existing licence to save on training (having said that, some operators would sooner take on people they think will be good at the 'people' side of the job then teach them to drive a bus) - be aware though if you do get the PCV training, you'll have to sign an agreement where if you leave within X time (2 years is standard) then you'll have to pay some training costs back.

Coach driving is a tangent - few coach operators will take on people without a PCV licence.  (one of the reasons bus operators have the training fees deal).  Coach driving can offer more variety - it suits some and not others.  It may also involve working away from home (e.g. on holidays / tours) and less predictability of hours / work / locations.  Coach drivers also tend to have to take some responsibility for cleaning their coach.

Depending on the driver / coach operator involved, some people go in to coach driving because they want to do it, some go into it because they have been sacked by all the local bus operators...


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## MillwallShoes (Mar 25, 2013)

thanks, very useful. i have to admit it would pretty much be a last resort to become a driver. i used it as an option as i have heard the starting pay is quite good (25k i have heard) and pensions, free travel, etc. i don't find driving particularly boring either. i have talked to some drivers. one just said, shaking his head "you have to deal with a lot of shit" the other was more upbeat saying you learn to deal with the bad sides of the job, and he sort of said exactly what you did about looking for trouble - some people just clash all the time. i think i'd prefer to drive for addison lee or someone before getting on the buses, but before any of htem i want to maybe use my degree that i will obtain this year to try and get in somewhere - maybe try for a graduate scheme (not one that millions of bright young things are applying for). i don't rate my chances very high on any scheme, but it would be shame not try after six years OU study!. thanks again, will save to file to read again if i chose that route.


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## craigxcraig (Mar 25, 2013)

Poot said:


> Accountancy. But you're probably aware of that


 
I'm 42, 43 this year and looking to change careers and just signed up with City & Guilds to study procurement and supply chain - and I'm doing their long distance course. This time next year I will be foundation level CiPS - Procurement is a growing sector/newish function within a business. Well worth looking in to.


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## devit (Mar 25, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> national careers service?
> 
> never had anything to do with them (wonder if i should)
> 
> appears to be open to all - think some services are only there if you're on the dole or some such but may be worth a further look.


 
Just to recommend the national careers service. I used them about 3 times whilst I was on JSA (and again, I'm sure it's open to all) - they were very good at highlighting skills that perhaps could be used in a different way or for a different type of role. Overall I was very impressed (considering it's a "free" service).

For anyone else thinking of it, their "Interview skills" session (only 30 mins) is highly recommended. I thought I was pretty good at interview situations but the advisor did suggest  couple of very good points.


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## ChrisD (Mar 25, 2013)

I once was being made redundant from a Quango and we all had interviews with consultants.  However the problem was that they were generalists and just didn't know enough about the specialist field I was interested in.  Sounds like there's a gap in the market which considering we are all supposed to be disposable adaptable there ought to be better sources of mid career advice.


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## nicedream (Mar 26, 2013)

Ive been ill and not worked for 10 years, i do have degree but its now 13 years old :/ I am wondering whether its even worth getting a 'career' at 36, or if i should just settle for a job - either way i have to get back out there before i disappear completely.


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## weltweit (Mar 26, 2013)

nicedream said:


> Ive been ill and not worked for 10 years, i do have degree but its now 13 years old :/ I am wondering whether its even worth getting a 'career' at 36, or if i should just settle for a job - either way i have to get back out there before i disappear completely.


 
A lot of people argue that these days there is no such thing as a career, there is just a sucession of jobs. Of course if you are clever you can change jobs in a generally upwards manner.

Sorry to hear you have been ill, and good that you imply you are now better.


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## nicedream (Mar 26, 2013)

I am ready to be better   I was thinking of mental health nursing, or counselling, which i guess are careers... but it is debatable whether theyre worth the time and effort.


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## weltweit (Mar 26, 2013)

nicedream said:


> I am ready to be better  I was thinking of mental health nursing, or counselling, which i guess are careers... but it is debatable whether theyre worth the time and effort.


Well I think it is true that they don't pay very well, but they could be mentally and or emotionally fulfilling.


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## nicedream (Mar 26, 2013)

yeah, the pay isnt my concern, i mean the years it would take to be qualified...


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## weltweit (Mar 26, 2013)

nicedream said:


> yeah, the pay isnt my concern, i mean the years it would take to be qualified...


Oh, right, I don't know about that.
I know I quite fancied being a psychiatrist at one point as a mature adult but it did not take much looking into it to be dissuaded


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## nicedream (Mar 26, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Oh, right, I don't know about that.
> I know I quite fancied being a psychiatrist at one point as a mature adult but it did not take much looking into it to be dissuaded


 EEEK that would take ages, and i think you have to slightly insane to do that job anyway


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## Red Cat (Mar 26, 2013)

Jobs which are good for people in their thirties and forties are jobs that require maturity and knowledge of self and lets say a more forgiving, rather than attacking and judgemental, attitude towards people, such as nursing and social work, both of which have bursaries for training. Child psychotherapy, the field I hope to work in, used to not take people before the age of about 35 although that has got a little lower lately. There_ are_ advantages to being more mature.


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## xenon (Mar 26, 2013)

I need a career. All I've had is jobs. And none of them for a while. Fuck working in a callcentre again though if I can avoid it. I don't even like talking to people on the phone much FFS.


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## free spirit (Mar 26, 2013)

Quartz said:


> To whom can a middle-aged fart like me go for a sensible chat about switching careers? I've just about had it with IT call centre work.


I've just been doing some work for a family friend who's working as a life coach, which sounds like what you're after.

I was thinking it'd be hippy nonsense, but it does sound like she's actually quite good at it, it essentially being talking through with people in situations like you to work out what you'd actually prefer to do for work, what's feasible and how to get there from where you are.

Apparently she gets most of her work from recommendations from previous clients.


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## Quartz (May 10, 2013)

For anyone still interested, I handed in my notice today. I've decided to follow a twin-track approach, upskilling myself in IT while exploring other opportunities. I've got enough put aside to last me a good while. 

And I'm sitting here celebrating with a can of cider.


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## Greebo (May 10, 2013)

Quartz said:


> For anyone still interested, I handed in my notice today. I've decided to follow a twin-track approach, upskilling myself in IT while exploring other opportunities. I've got enough put aside to last me a good while.<snip>


Best of luck with your new life, wherever it ends up taking you.


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