# The Rugby Union Thread 2010/2011 season



## Infidel Castro (Sep 3, 2010)

Well, having not seen Bendy and Mattie et al around for a while, I felt it wise to start this bad boy of a thread to acknowledge the commencement of the new season.  The O's are in action tonight.

Let's talk rugby.


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## flypanam (Sep 3, 2010)

Should be an interesting season esp in the Magners. Not sure what to expect from the Italians. Really hope Ulster continue to improve, though was sad to see Issac Boss go to Leinster. But I think Chris Henry will step it at 8 esp up after that tour to NZ and Aus. I think we may just get last spot for the play offs. Hope springs eternal. 

Also hope Tommy Bowe, kicks on to another level. Always glad to see a fellow Monaghan boy getting plaudits.


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## junglevip (Sep 3, 2010)

Friday, 03 September 2010

Glasgow v Leinster, 19:05
Ulster v Ospreys, 19:05

Saturday, 04 September 2010
Benetton Treviso v Scarlets, 19:05
Cardiff Blues v Edinburgh, 18:30
Connacht v Newport-Gwent Dragons, 17:30
Munster v Aironi Rugby, 19:30

I think the Italians will be decent at home.  I think one of the Italian teams has beaten Biarritz (Scrum V radio last night...), for me  I think if they are 'weaker' to begin with it will give a chance for the players coming through to play at a higher level.  I just hope that the Scarlets have a good season for the sake of Welsh and European sake.

For the uninitiated, Scrum V is on the red button and is normally watchable on line throughout the UK.  I'll be happy with an all Welsh HC final.... . . .


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## flypanam (Sep 3, 2010)

junglevip said:


> Friday, 03 September 2010
> 
> Ulster v Ospreys, 19:05


 
Change what I said earlier. I hope Tommy has a stinker!


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## Teaboy (Sep 3, 2010)

Anyone going to the London double header at Twickenham this weekend.  I am, unfortunatly I let my mate get the tickets and he sidestepped the £10 ones and went for the £50 instead.


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 3, 2010)

Apologies for the red herring in suggesting O's were in Italy.  Poor show.

I'm looking for the Blues to try and get to the semis in the HEC.  That'd be a cracking return.  Once in the semis, who knows.  We're looking strong again this year.  I just hope we continue to evolve.


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## junglevip (Sep 3, 2010)

I am not a Blues supporter (unless they play an non Welsh team), but how can you not like Dai Young?  I am glad he toughed it out and proved himself (I was a doughter, but then I am a fickle O's fan)


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 3, 2010)

Woohoo. Bring on the beefy, sweaty men!
And the athleticism, tactics, skill and beauty blah blah blah


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## Teaboy (Sep 3, 2010)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Woohoo. Bring on the beefy, sweaty men!
> And the athleticism, tactics, skill and beauty blah blah blah


 
..... cheating, cocaine abuse, drink driving.....


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## bendeus (Sep 3, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> ..... cheating, cocaine abuse, drink driving.....


 



			
				Mattie said:
			
		

> ....being orange, having spiky hair, favouring celebrity magazines....



.


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## bendeus (Sep 3, 2010)

HEC winner: Ospreys
Magners winner: Blues
GP winner: Leicester
Amlin winner: Toulon

Biggest flop: Munster
Biggest surprise package: Ulster

6N: France, I s'pose. Nobody looking great, though.


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## bendeus (Sep 3, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Should be an interesting season esp in the Magners. Not sure what to expect from the Italians. Really hope Ulster continue to improve, though was sad to see Issac Boss go to Leinster. But I think Chris Henry will step it at 8 esp up after that tour to NZ and Aus. I think we may just get last spot for the play offs. Hope springs eternal.
> 
> *Also hope Tommy Bowe, kicks on to another level. Always glad to see a fellow Monaghan boy getting plaudits.*



He has another level? Fuck me, look out, world!


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## bendeus (Sep 3, 2010)

junglevip said:


> I am not a Blues supporter (unless they play an non Welsh team), but how can you not like Dai Young?  I am glad he toughed it out and proved himself (I was a doughter, but then I am a fickle O's fan)


 
Aye. He'll have earned the Welsh coaching job as and when he gets it. Blues a fucking formidable side right now. That pack is awesome, if a little old, and they ain't too shabby behind the scrum either.


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## bendeus (Sep 3, 2010)

junglevip said:


> Friday, 03 September 2010
> 
> Glasgow v Leinster, 19:05
> Ulster v Ospreys, 19:05
> ...


 
Aironi will be competitive I think. Spent some cash and have competitive pack. It will add spice to the unseemly scramble to avoid coming bottom, at least


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 4, 2010)

The O's threw away a win last night.  Not bad for the B-side though...


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 4, 2010)

Saffers have got the wooden spoon.  I hope these new rules suit Wales.  Or rather, I hope our players and coaches are clever enough to adapt and use them to our advantage...

Anyway, a bonus win for the Blues, the Scarlets have gone down in Italy (hands up who saw that coming a mile off) and also the Dragons got twatted AGAIN in Connacht.  A poor weekend results-wise, but great to see Treviso kick-off with a win.  At halftime, Aironi are holding Munster 11-11.  Away.  Incredible.


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## bendeus (Sep 4, 2010)

Great performance by the Blues - an absolutely cracking season's opener between two good sides. Lots more to come from them this season. Dan Parks v. impressive. He must be on the same course of drugs that turned Lee Byrne from a flakey journeyman to a serious international fullback in 2008.

Newport Gwent Dragons: . Words fail me.

Scarlets - still shit, then, though they've proven that the Italians are going to be competitive at home at the very least.

Anyone also noticed the high try count so far. Could this be the influence of the new interpretation of the breakdown that has transformed SH rugby recently. Certainly saw a lot, lot less aerial ping-pong, and players far more willing to run from deep. Thank fuck, if this is the case, and about time.


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 5, 2010)

As i was in work yesterday and missed all the rugby (other than watching the scores roll in and then reading the reports), the one thing I'd like to ask is how good young North might be.  Did you see anything of him yesterday Bendy?  I'm going to have to record Scrum V today and watch it late tonight.


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## bendeus (Sep 5, 2010)

Two very well taken tries. He had a lot of work to do - neither were strolls over the line. 6'4", fast as fuck, 16 stone and 18 years old. Gatland was very complementary. I just wish we had some more talent coming through in other parts of the pitch, such as blindside, loosehead and centre. With Halfpenny, Kristian Phillips, Prydie, Will Harries, and now North coming through I don't fear having strength on the wings or at fullback.


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## starfish (Sep 5, 2010)

Good win for Glasgow over Leinster but it it looks like last season all over again for GHA in Scots Div 2 who have now lost their first three games.


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## bendeus (Sep 6, 2010)

Where's Mattie, FFS? Rumours linking Henson, who is back in training, to Bath. I would fucking piss meself. I would also demand he buy me a pint when the orange one proves beyond doubt how much value he is to a team


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## felixthecat (Sep 6, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Rumours linking Henson, who is back in training, to Bath



Oh dear God, not again. Been here before I believe.
 I will have to research this.......

*gets on the phone..*


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## bendeus (Sep 6, 2010)

Please, god, let it be true.

*rubs hands in anticipation*


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 7, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Two very well taken tries. He had a lot of work to do - neither were strolls over the line. 6'4", fast as fuck, 16 stone and 18 years old. Gatland was very complementary. I just wish we had some more talent coming through in other parts of the pitch, such as blindside, loosehead and centre. With Halfpenny, Kristian Phillips, Prydie, Will Harries, and now North coming through I don't fear having strength on the wings or at fullback.


 
Ben Lewis is back for the O's.  With him and Warburton we should be able to put a good 7 out in the next 10yrs.  And the way North played through the centre for that one try implies he might be a good punt there as well.

I caught up with Scrum V, and for all the talk about the Blues try being the best of the competition thus far (early days of course), I was much more impressed with Treviso's classic against Scarlets.  Beautifully functional.  It was like watching people practicing in training so simple did they make it look.


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## bendeus (Sep 7, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Where's Mattie, FFS? Rumours linking Henson, who is back in training, to Bath. I would fucking piss meself. I would also demand he buy me a pint when the orange one proves beyond doubt how much value he is to a team


 
Nah, after all the kerfuffle, he is going to appear on Strictly. Ah, well, Bath's loss is the Beeb's gain


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## flypanam (Sep 8, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Nah, after all the kerfuffle, he is going to appear on Strictly. Ah, well, Bath's loss is the Beeb's gain



Trying to nail that place in the Wales World Cup team then. I like Henson, I really do. But as an Irish Fan i do feel sorry for the Welsh. Just kick him to touch. You've enough good players without wasting time on someone whose head is clearly not right.


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 8, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Nah, after all the kerfuffle, he is going to appear on Strictly. Ah, well, Bath's loss is the Beeb's gain









I would stick the knife in, but it's just disappointing.


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 8, 2010)

Anyway, good to see the Italian teams putting in good performances in the ML this weekend, it could be the answer the Italy side is looking for and a template for growing rugby in the rest of europe.


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## bendeus (Sep 8, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Trying to nail that place in the Wales World Cup team then. I like Henson, I really do. But as an Irish Fan i do feel sorry for the Welsh. Just kick him to touch. You've enough good players without wasting time on someone whose head is clearly not right.


 
Hook is coming through as the creative, international-class 12/13 Wales needs at just the right moment. If it weren't for him, I'd be despairing, TBH.

Henson's head? Always been a strange thing. Some feel that he just wants out of Wales, and that Strictly's October to January contract is timed perfectly for him to start negotiations with an English club and walk away from the Os.

I personally don't give a fuck what club he plays for if he is still available for Wales, and I still feel that the latter could happen. We'll see.


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 8, 2010)

Would you forgive him doing the cha-cha-cha instead of playing rugby?.


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## bendeus (Sep 8, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> I would stick the knife in, but it's just disappointing.


 
Why? Are you basing this on some abstract notion about an _esprit de corps_, or a loyalty to the game that started to wither with the amateur era?

He's a bloke with a strange mind, who has just split from his family, and who is perfectly entitled to make his own decisions about his own life. I, for one, don't know why he's decided to do it, and I'm kinda sad, because I know he won't ever play for the Os again, but I wouldn't presume to judge it. It's just a man making some decisions about how he wants to conduct his life. Nothing more, nothing less. Hasn't got a lot to do with you, and hasn't got a lot to do with me.


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## bendeus (Sep 8, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Would you forgive him doing the cha-cha-cha instead of playing rugby?.


 
Yeah. If that's what makes him happy.


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## bendeus (Sep 8, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> I would stick the knife in, but it's just disappointing.


 
Oh, and...


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 8, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Why? Are you basing this on some abstract notion about an _esprit de corps_, or a loyalty to the game that started to wither with the amateur era?
> 
> He's a bloke with a strange mind, who has just split from his family, and who is perfectly entitled to make his own decisions about his own life. I, for one, don't know why he's decided to do it, and I'm kinda sad, because I know he won't ever play for the Os again, but I wouldn't presume to judge it. It's just a man making some decisions about how he wants to conduct his life. Nothing more, nothing less. Hasn't got a lot to do with you, and hasn't got a lot to do with me.


I'm perfectly entitled to have an opinion on those decisions, and i'm disappointed because he's turning away from the game towards a stupid tv talent contest. As to why he is doing it - I don't know, he was turning away from the game long before his marriage troubles so it wasn't that. Maybe his head was never in the right place to begin with?. Maybe he was always more fake tan and spiky hair than substance?.


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## bendeus (Sep 9, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> I'm perfectly entitled to have an opinion on those decisions, and i'm disappointed because he's turning away from the game towards a stupid tv talent contest. As to why he is doing it - I don't know, he was turning away from the game long before his marriage troubles so it wasn't that. Maybe his head was never in the right place to begin with?. Maybe he was always more fake tan and spiky hair than substance?.


 
In the main I think you're right. He ain't the sharpest tool in the box, that's for sure, and a lot, though by no means all, of the issues he has had over the years have been 'upstairs'. 

Not sure whether it's him drifting away from rugby or rugby drifting away from him - he's always been the outsider, always held in suspicion in some quarters, derided in others, and misrepresented in yet others. Sadly, those who see him for the talent he so undoubtedly is are thin on the ground, and maybe that is the driver for his decision. It's easier to walk away from a sport that has never embraced you, after all.


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 9, 2010)

He's also modelling a pretty nifty new rugby jersey:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8980110.stm


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## bendeus (Sep 10, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> He's also modelling a pretty nifty new rugby jersey:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8980110.stm


 
Yes, and Wales' players are, apparently, fairly pissed off that a man who hasn't played rugby for 18 months should model the new shirt:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/sep/08/gavin-henson-wales-rugby-kit

Tactical masterstroke from the WRU (and Henson himself), though. They get headlines in the English (national) press and the EBC that a Wales shirt launch would never normally garner, and Chavin gets yet more column inches prior to his Strictly career launch.

In other news, the Wasps rumours just keep on coming, to the point that the Pests have issued a official denial that he is their player (but not that he won't be). I'm wondering whether, given Flutey's incumbency at 12 for the pests, our Gav might just have been offered the 10 shirt there. Interesting if it is the case.


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## 1927 (Sep 10, 2010)

bendeus said:


> In the main I think you're right. He ain't the sharpest tool in the box, that's for sure, and a lot, though by no means all, of the issues he has had over the years have been 'upstairs'.
> 
> Not sure whether it's him drifting away from rugby or rugby drifting away from him - he's always been the outsider, always held in suspicion in some quarters, derided in others, and misrepresented in yet others. *Sadly, those who see him for the talent he so undoubtedly is are thin on the ground*, and maybe that is the driver for his decision. It's easier to walk away from a sport that has never embraced you, after all.


 
You and me are a very rare breed Bendy, but totally correct in our assessment!!

What I was disappointed to hear tho is that he has his solicitors on the case trying to get out of his Osprey contract. This is why he is probably on Strictly as he has obv decided he wont play for us again, depsite giving himk the time off etc., and I guess he can't play for anyone else even if he wanted to as we wont let him. 

Its a bloody shame that we wont ever see him set the field alight with his undoubted brilliance, imho, but as much as i admire and respect the rugby player Gavin Henson the person is getting on my tits now, Good luck to him, but I think his demons have got the better of him and he is being poorly advised.


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## bendeus (Sep 11, 2010)

1927 said:


> You and me are a very rare breed Bendy, but totally correct in our assessment!!



We are indeed. Swansea-Neath-Port Talbot rugby region supporting Bluebirds fans are a rare and fascinating breed.



> What I was disappointed to hear tho is that he has his solicitors on the case trying to get out of his Osprey contract. This is why he is probably on Strictly as he has obv decided he wont play for us again, depsite giving himk the time off etc., and I guess he can't play for anyone else even if he wanted to as we wont let him.
> 
> Its a bloody shame that we wont ever see him set the field alight with his undoubted brilliance, imho, but as much as i admire and respect the rugby player Gavin Henson the person is getting on my tits now, Good luck to him, but I think his demons have got the better of him and he is being poorly advised



Let's just see it out and work out what happens. I'd just like to see him playing for Wales again, TBH. He is good enough to make a significant difference to our world cup campaign, and good enough to help us win another grand slam in a very weak field. If he's turning out for Sion Edwards, so be it, Hook is a more than able replacement at 12. The thought of having him, Roberts, Shanks and Hook available for selection at centre makes me do a little man wee at the very thought.


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 12, 2010)

Blues looked good against Leinster yesterday in coming back, but switched off to lose the game then the bonus point.  Very annoying.


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## flypanam (Sep 14, 2010)

Ferris has committed himself to Ulster for another 2 years.  And When Ruan Pinear (can't do Saffa spelling) we just might have our best squad ever. Fair play to the IRFU for allowing some decent spending at last!


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 14, 2010)

Ferris re-signing is a massive plus.


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## bendeus (Sep 14, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Ferris has committed himself to Ulster for another 2 years.  And When Ruan Pinear (can't do Saffa spelling) we just might have our best squad ever. Fair play to the IRFU for allowing some decent spending at last!


 
Good pack, but I'm not sure you've got enough behind the scrum to cause the top teams real problems when it counts.

IMO, of course.


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## bendeus (Sep 14, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> Blues looked good against Leinster yesterday in coming back, but switched off to lose the game then the bonus point.  Very annoying.


 
Haven't seen the highlights but it sounds like a certain Australo-Hibernian halfback laid out a welcome mat in the 10 channel, which was ruthlessly exploited by the ladyboys. Any troot in this?


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 15, 2010)

The pack was going backward at first which didn't help.  The later tries came through the 1-12 channel sort of, but one of them was down to a failed Czekaj attempt to tackle man and ball.  THe off-load came very easily for the try.  Terrible.


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## bendeus (Sep 15, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> The pack was going backward at first which didn't help.  The later tries came through the 1-12 channel sort of, but one of them was down to a failed Czekaj attempt to tackle man and ball.  THe off-load came very easily for the try.  Terrible.


 
Was surprised that Dai was willing to put out so weak a starting pack as he did, tbh. That T/H they've got from Doncaster sounds like he's bobbins. Still, I suppose this is the point of the season in which you try out new combos, ease in rookie players and stage the return of the internationals and veterans. Nobody gives a fuck, really. It's the HEC and the sharp end of the season on which they'll be judged, and I still reckon they won't be found wanting. More silverware beckons for the Blues this season, IMO.


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## The Boy (Sep 15, 2010)

Bayonne are leading the way in the Top14 at the moment, leading Racing by 4 points.  Not much between te rest o the table, altough La Rochelle, Agen and Bourgoing all look like they will struggle.  

In more worrying news, Fabien Barcella is out for 7 months.   A few other nasty injuries to players on the periphery of the national team (Yann David suffered a double leg fracture not long after getting back to form after another long injury lay off).  _Plus ca change..._


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## bendeus (Sep 16, 2010)

At the risk of turning this into a Henson thread rather than a rugby thread, our Gav has spoken out, and what a load of contradictory cobblers it is, too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/9002863.stm

He wants a move to London because it will bring him closer to his kids (even though they live in Wales)
He thinks leaving Wales will 'earn respect'.
He reckons he'll be good enough to play for Wales again after 'two or three' games
He claims he wants to return to the Os after a season away (like they'll take him back)
He wants to return at 10 rather than 12.

Fair fucks, if he'd sat down and designed a 6 point plan to further alienate the Welsh public he couldn't have done any better. Spectacular stuff.


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## flypanam (Sep 16, 2010)

^^^

Such a fucking waste of talent! Obscurity is beckoning for a lad who could have been one of the greatest the N. Hem ever produced. I just wish he took a load of drugs and enjoyed himself but this is bullshit.


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## bendeus (Sep 16, 2010)

I wouldn't write him off just yet. Fly half at Wasps and 12 for Wales (which he will be again, mark my words) hardly represents a lapse into obscurity. 

That Gav is thick, and odd, and poorly-advised, and rather celebrity-obsessed, and flakey is indisputable, but he's still an incredible talent, and he's only 28. I can quite easily see another Lions tour in him if his comeback remains injury free and the club he goes to understands how to handle him.


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## The Boy (Sep 17, 2010)

Is it just possible that Henson simply doesn't enjoy/like rugby?  I can think of a air few athletes/sports peeps who view/ed their chosen sport as not much more than a job.


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## bendeus (Sep 17, 2010)

The Boy said:


> Is it just possible that Henson simply doesn't enjoy/like rugby?  I can think of a air few athletes/sports peeps who view/ed their chosen sport as not much more than a job.


 
He did once state that he saw it as a job and that as soon as he'd made enough money from it he'd stop, as he didn't see the point in fucking his body up permanently for the sake of a game (or somesuch).

This seems to directly contradict some statements in his interview about the feeling of pulling on a Welsh shirt and playing in a packed Millennium Stadium.

So fuck knows, really.


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 17, 2010)

That was an odd bit of telly, but by Jove it was nice to see him talking confidently of returning to rugby and playing for Wales in the 6N this season .


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## bendeus (Sep 17, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> That was an odd bit of telly, but by Jove it was nice to see him talking confidently of returning to rugby and playing for Wales in the 6N this season .


 
Presactly!


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 21, 2010)

Munner looking strong.  Sorry Bendy...

Blues looking tidy.  

Treviso make me smile.


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## flypanam (Sep 21, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> Munner looking strong.  Sorry Bendy...



Yeah the Munster pack without O' Connell, Flannery and Wallace was pretty good. They ground out that result. However the Sam Tuitoupu (sp) really excited me and I think once Mafi gets back from injury it's gonna be like having Rua Tipoki all over again. Dougie Howlett looks lean and keen too. I'm only hoping that with Tipp and Cork winning All Irelands munster may be satisfied with that silverware!

As for Ulster 3/3 and nowhere near our best. Marshall was pretty outstanding on Friday so we shall see...


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 21, 2010)

I can't wait to get Ulster at the CCS.  It's gonna be class.


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## flypanam (Sep 24, 2010)

Got Connacht in Galway. After their good start it should be epic. Odds on it's played in a monsoon!

FORWARDS
Tom Court, Paddy McAllister, Bryan Young, Chris Henry, Rory Best, BJ Botha, Andi Kyriacou, Tim Barker, Johann Muller, Ryan Caldwell, Willie Faloon, Nigel Brady, Robbie Diack, Stephen Ferris, Pedrie Wannenburg, Dan Tuohy

BACKS
Adam D'Arcy,David McIlwaine, Andrew Trimble, Paul Marshall, Ian Porter, Paul Emerick, Jamie Smith, Darren Cave, Ian Witten, Paddy Wallace, Ian Humphreys, Niall O'Connor


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 24, 2010)

Dragons v Scarlets tonight.  Come on you men of Gwent - give them a twatting!  

And we're in Treviso tonight with a few players missing.  Brave, but I think an away win is doable.  COme on the Blues!  It'll be like a mini HEC match out there .


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## bendeus (Sep 25, 2010)

Dragons were he-humped up front and in contact last night. Total powderpuff. They're going to have a long, long season - I wouldn't exactly call the Turks a physical side, but they dominated in every aspect.

George North scored again, Tavis Knoyle looking the biz, and Jon Davies is starting to look like a decent centre. Not going to get carried away about the latter, though - think he needs to prove himself at HEC level on a regular basis before I start eulogising.


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 27, 2010)

bendeus said:


> George North scored again, Tavis Knoyle looking the biz, and Jon Davies is starting to look like a decent centre. Not going to get carried away about the latter, though - think he needs to prove himself at HEC level on a regular basis before I start eulogising.


 
Of those three though, he's certainly the one exciting me.  Then North, followed by Knoyle.

Fair play, Davies didn't quite do the biz when the chances arose last season, but this time he's looking ready to hit the ground running for Wales.  Hook looks like he'll be back against Scarlets in some capacity, and the thought of seeing the King-Davies axis replaced with a Hook-Davies axis is doing things to me.

Bradley is first-choice second-row.

John Thomas actually looks pretty good at 8 as well.  It was nice to see his break v Aironi.  His pace was pretty impressive.


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## bendeus (Sep 28, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> Of those three though, he's certainly the one exciting me.  Then North, followed by Knoyle.
> 
> Fair play, Davies didn't quite do the biz when the chances arose last season, but this time he's looking ready to hit the ground running for Wales.  Hook looks like he'll be back against Scarlets in some capacity, and the thought of seeing the King-Davies axis replaced with a Hook-Davies axis is doing things to me.
> 
> ...



Not so sure about JD, myself. So far he's managed to impress against Aironi, Connacht, the NGD (with a third-choice centre partnership) and Treviso. Let's see how he fairs against Munnher, the Os and the Blues before we start building him up as the next Scott Gibbs. 

Agreed about Bradley; he's a titan. Really hope Ian Evs gets a run and lives up to his pre-injury promise - with him fit we have some very serious options at lock.

JT does seem to be thriving at 8. Still don't think he has the physicality to make it his own, though. He'll get smashed against the better sides.


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 28, 2010)

There are a lot of things happening at the mo.  Last autumn I felt we were lacking in choice.  If a few things click Wales will have options galore.  Fingers crossed.  Gutted for Ben Lewis mind.  Could have been worse as far as injury goes, but he was playing well and offered an other option in a previously weak spot.


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## bendeus (Sep 28, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> There are a lot of things happening at the mo.  Last autumn I felt we were lacking in choice.  If a few things click Wales will have options galore.  Fingers crossed.  Gutted for Ben Lewis mind.  Could have been worse as far as injury goes, but he was playing well and offered an other option in a previously weak spot.


 
We need options at fullback,  8 and at t/h still. Without these we are only ever one injury away from partial meltdown, unfortunately.


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## Infidel Castro (Sep 28, 2010)

bendeus said:


> We need options at fullback,  8 and at t/h still. Without these we are only ever one injury away from partial meltdown, unfortunately.


 
We're a year away from the RWC.  Full-back WILL be sorted by then.  8 remains a worry, but tighthead will come good as well, with Yapp getting a proper run at it.


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## bendeus (Sep 29, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> We're a year away from the RWC.  Full-back WILL be sorted by then.  8 remains a worry, but tighthead will come good as well, with Yapp getting a proper run at it.


 
Hrm. Who is the mysterious international-standard-15-in-waiting? Barry Davies, Czekaj, Prydie, Will Harries, Stoddard?

Don't you think that the Blues are backing Scott Andrews to come good at 3? I'm not sure Yapp's conversion to T/H has been what you'd call a success. I wouldn't rely on him to shore up a Magners League scrum on the tight, let alone an international standard one.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Sep 29, 2010)

He's at least being given a chance, and Young has backed him.  We'll see how he comes through.  

Our next 15 is going to be Henson .  Possibly.  We'll see.

One year is a long time and there's a lot of rugby to be played yet.


----------



## bendeus (Sep 30, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> He's at least being given a chance, and Young has backed him.  We'll see how he comes through.
> 
> Our next 15 is going to be Henson .  Possibly.  We'll see.
> 
> One year is a long time and there's a lot of rugby to be played yet.



Yapp was dogshite tonight. Shamed by the Connacht t/h. 

Henson at 15? Please god, no. He's a 12, just like James Hook. His being shifted back there in 2009 when the Irish won the slam was the precise reason _why_ they won the slam. 

We need a specialist 15 - good under the high ball, coming into the backline at the right angles, seige gun boot, etc. Still haven't got one, sadly.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 1, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> Our next 15 is going to be Henson .  Possibly.  We'll see.


Possibly.

"I'll just look at that, I'll just see where I am in Strictly. At the moment I'm just totally concentrating on Strictly, this is the main thing for me at the moment then all that will follow on rugby-wise.
I'm committed to Strictly and that's it really, I haven't committed to the Barbarians."

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/9037126.stm


----------



## bendeus (Oct 2, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Possibly.
> 
> "I'll just look at that, I'll just see where I am in Strictly. At the moment I'm just totally concentrating on Strictly, this is the main thing for me at the moment then all that will follow on rugby-wise.
> I'm committed to Strictly and that's it really, I haven't committed to the Barbarians."
> ...



How are you feeling about Leinster's season so far?


----------



## bendeus (Oct 2, 2010)

*Excited*

Bizarre twist of luck has seen me land a corporate box for six plus full hospitality at Parc Y Scarlets for the west Wales derby: Turks vs. Os. Package includes free, VIP car parking, pre-match interview with the coach, a three-course meal, an after dinner speech from Derek Quinell and a post match interview with David Lyons, plus access to the Quinell Lounge so we can schmooze with Turk heroes past and present. Going up with me homies. Intend to drink too much, and possibly even make like a Bath player if the boat comes in. Maxed out on the fun! 

Os should give them a bit of a dicking, IMO. With Jonathan Davies and Stoddard out of action the Turks have very few line breaking options. Os will chew them up front and spit them out in the threequarters. Excited to see Spikey Pikey Mikey starting, and Hook on the bench - Os buildup to the HEC looking well-timed.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm gutted I'm not going to get to see Bish v Davies.  I've been looking forward to that.  

Nice to see you a little more mirthful and optimistic, ya miserable bastard .


----------



## flypanam (Oct 2, 2010)

Another win last night, still played like shite. Actually Glasgow seemed pretty decent for a change.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 3, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Another win last night, still played like shite. Actually Glasgow seemed pretty decent for a change.


 
Ach, the wheels will come off as soon as you play a decent side who are actually concentrating on the ML

Reminds me of the Dragons a year ago. Bless!


----------



## bendeus (Oct 3, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> I'm gutted I'm not going to get to see Bish v Davies.  I've been looking forward to that.
> 
> Nice to see you a little more mirthful and optimistic, ya miserable bastard .


 
Brilliant game. Loved the PyS atmosphere, but knew that the mighty Os had enough in reserve to do what they had to do. Turks never really threatened. Cawl and Celtic Pride beef pie were memorable, so was the meph. Ended up getting autographs for my 88-year-old granny from Alun-Wyn, Marty Holah, Matthew Rees, Lee Byrne (rather too cool for school, IMO) and Adam Jones.

Set up nicely for the Toulon game without really breaking a sweat. HEC for the Os this year, I know it.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 3, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> I'm gutted I'm not going to get to see Bish v Davies.  I've been looking forward to that.
> 
> Nice to see you a little more mirthful and optimistic, ya miserable bastard .


 
Whaddaya mean, miserable, BTW? If you reckon that watching the creative black hole that is a Sonny Parker/Bishop midfield combo, or the Blues persevere with Pooper at 9 for sixty-odd minutes against Connact's disruptive game is going to do anything but cause a poor soul to bookmark Dignitas, you have another thing coming.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 3, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Ended up getting autographs for my 88-year-old granny from...Marty Holah



Just an aside...

Now there is one seriously sound fella. A couple of years ago, I was down in NZ and i went to see the mighty Chiefs play the sharks in Hamilton. The chiefs thumped them. After the game I was walking up the CBD and I saw Marty and Jonno Gibbes walking down the street. I said hello and had a good 10 minute chat with the lads. The shame for Holah was to be born around the same time as McCaw otherwise he would have been one of the great all black open sides.

Anyway Leinster put one over the sheep shagging turnip munchers of Munster. Drico going over in the last 9 minutes.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 3, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Just an aside...
> 
> Now there is one seriously sound fella. A couple of years ago, I was down in NZ and i went to see the mighty Chiefs play the sharks in Hamilton. The chiefs thumped them. After the game I was walking up the CBD and I saw Marty and Jonno Gibbes walking down the street. I said hello and had a good 10 minute chat with the lads. The shame for Holah was to be born around the same time as McCaw otherwise he would have been one of the great all black open sides.
> 
> Anyway Leinster put one over the sheep shagging turnip munchers of Munster. Drico going over in the last 9 minutes.



Holah is awesome. He's been unbelievable for the Os, and is absolutely key to their way of playing. Agreed on the McCaw thing - Marty's seriously good, and would walk into every single NH international XV as a minimum.

Everything I hear about his attitude, both on the pitch, in the dressing room, and in terms of mentoring young lads like Ben Lewis, plus the warmth with which he dealt with a pissed, autograph-hunting me leads me to the same conclusion: quality guy, wonderful player:




			
				Scott Johnson said:
			
		

> “We will sit down with Marty and see how he is feeling physically. But I love him and we definitely want to keep him. He is a wonderful human being and rugby player. It’s a great combination.”


----------



## flypanam (Oct 8, 2010)

HEC weekend. Can't wait. Looking forward Racing v Leinster. Can't really see past Clermont this year.


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## bendeus (Oct 8, 2010)

flypanam said:


> HEC weekend. Can't wait. Looking forward Racing v Leinster. Can't really see past Clermont this year.


 
You need only stretch your bleary eyes as far as the mighty Os, my good man. 

Only just realised just how much cash Racing have splashed lately. That's a very competitive looking side. Don't think the Ladyboys will get out of their group this year, but we'll see. Ulster have a fairly decent chance of getting out of their group and could, ironically, end up being the only Irish side in the knockout stages.

Those cheating, litiginous, poncy, whining, Digby Jonesing, hand of Backing, one rule for them-ing, facking cunting, dastardly Tiggers will probably be in the mix towards the end as well.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 8, 2010)

bendeus said:


> You need only stretch your bleary eyes as far as the mighty Os, my good man.



The scales have fallen I can see again. 

It really is now or never for the Osprey's. Them and Clermont have to be the best club side not to have won it. I hope they do well. 

As for Leinster, I think one of the best runner up spots might be the best they can hope for. They have the advantage of Schmidt knowing the Clermont players inside and out. Saracans boring but effective...it says alot about a team when dave strettle is used as an example of exciting play.

As for Ulster, yup it is our best chance, however 5 games into the Magners and we're still not playing as a team does fill me with too much confidence. At home we will probably win all three but I doubt we can muster 1 let alone 2 away results.


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## bendeus (Oct 8, 2010)

flypanam said:


> .it says alot about a team when dave strettle is used as an example of exciting play.


 



			
				Stephen Jones said:
			
		

> Strettle....unh....mercurial winger...uh, uh....piston thighs.....mmf, mmf...shining example of the incredible skills available behind the scrum in England......urgh, urgh....fantastic hands.....fap, fap, fap.....stout yeoman...uhn....made of oak....stratospheric talent like Simpson-Daniel....uhhh, uhhhh, recieves the ball for the first time on 78 minutes....SPAFFFFFF!



.


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## flypanam (Oct 8, 2010)




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## bendeus (Oct 8, 2010)

Almost forgot to post this: Gavin Quinnell, younger brother of Craig and Scotty, and son of Derek, has been blinded in one eye after what many are saying was a deliberate stamp from a Cross Keys player. Link b'yur

Sounds like Quinnell was targeted from the off, not only because of his name, but because he was of a calibre above normal WP standard. Apparently, when ML/HEC/international level players drop down to WP level due to fitness/form or return from injury, they are often given a rough ride.

Scarlets have cited the incident, and sent video evidence to back it up. If there's any suspicion of premeditation here, then the police must surely get involved.

Two points, really. One, good luck, Gavin. Only 26 - no fucker deserves that. I hope you're able to take to the field again, if you ever want to go near one, that is. Second, it is really high time that the IRB clamped down _hard_ on on-the-pitch crimes like gouging and stamping on the face with exemplary lifetime bans, and that they target the top level so as to get the message across very, very clearly. Alright, it may mean that the likes of John Hayes, Quinlan, Azam and Burger never darken our pitches again, but hey ho, you've gotta break some eggs and all that.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 8, 2010)

Irish fans interviewed


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 8, 2010)

flypanam said:


> HEC weekend. Can't wait. Looking forward Racing v Leinster. Can't really see past Clermont this year.


 
Leinster and Munster might struggle to get out of their groups this year, Munster's pack is creaking even more than last year and Leinster are taking a while to settle. They are both strong teams on their day though.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 9, 2010)

Bloody hell! some great games already. Castres scaring the saints. Leinster whipping Racing. Ulster plodding (again) over Aironi. The Tiggers struggling and the O's suffering. Classic HEC action.

Btw Issac Boss has shown why an agressive srcum half is so essential. I hope Kidney dispenses with Eoin Reddin's services.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 10, 2010)

Toulouse have signed Caucau. Shit. Let's hope he gets home sick and has kept up the poundage.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Oct 13, 2010)

I'm winding my neck in on the Blues' chances...

Though saying that, a win is a win.  I think we'll know where we really stand after the Castres game.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 13, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> I'm winding my neck in on the Blues' chances...
> 
> Though saying that, a win is a win.  I think we'll know where we really stand after the Castres game.


 
Aye. Think you're right. I went to the Edinburgh game and thought the Blues were undone by a well-drilled performance by an inferior team that had found them out. Edinburgh tactics were spot on - keep the ball, defend in numbers and stop Rush. At this point, Blues looked clueless. They could easily have lost.

Os were typical fucking Os again. Contrived to butcher a game they were winning and should have closed out with a mixture of naivete and poor execution. Biggar was very poor, as was his place kicking. I really wish that just for once they'd fucking keep their heads, play through the phases and finish tight games on top. Insead, they spunk chances. That said, this group has given nothing away in the first matches - the next round should show where the respective teams really are.

Scarlets: very, very good. Anyone see Priestland's try? If not, have a butchers: . They're playing some lovely, heads up rugby ATM, and their young backrowers, McCusker and Turnbull look like real prospects. We'll see how they get on against a depleted Cheetas next w/e.

I suppose after the first round, none of my pre-tournament favourites, such as Toulouse, Blues, Os, Leicester looked very good. We'll see.

Finally - Nugget cited for dropping a knee into the face of Paterson. Stupid, petulant twat. He deserves a very long ban for that, and I can't see him playing again this year. Thank fuck we have Warburton and McCusker to come through at 7 for the AIs.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Oct 14, 2010)

He only got a fortnight.  Looks like his decent behaviour last season was a factor, as was pleading guilty.  That Sheriff Fatman feller at the Scarlets got 3wks for his naughty tackle.

Bendy, do you remember that wild prediction i made re Priestland playing for Wales?  You didn't like it, but you eventually agreed he's not a bad player.  Well, let me just add that Scarlets seem to be a better team with him in the mix.  As Jones is going so well at OH, Priestland will have to play FB.  However, he HAS to be in the team.  He's looking pretty tidy.

Back on the subject of Nugget, the Western Mail spoke yesterday of his exemplary disciplinary record and bigged him up as one of the fairest players in world rugby.  Yet I can remember several incidents where he has stepped outside the realms of decency, not least when he tripped a player in full flight the once.  He is as you say a petulant feller.  I would have liked to have seen Warburton play against Edinburgh to take up some yards for Rush.  That would have helped no end.

Frustrating as well listening on the wireless and hearing Biggar kicking possession away when they were firstly defending a small lead and then trying to peg Toulon back in the dying moments.  He's only 20yrs old though.  I think we're becoming a lot quicker these days to jump on players' backs when sensibility suggests we take a step back and look at them for what they are.  Jonathan Davies, Biggar, North, Knoyle, 'Penny, Bradley, Prydie, Owen and Owens...they're all VERY young and will grow up together.  Times are bright.  Throw Hook, Geth, Wyn-Jones, Ian Evans, Warburton and a few others into the mix, and I'm pretty happy with the way we're headed.

e2a - that Priestland try is magic.  If only Stod could defend like he attacks.  Maybe wing is his best position.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Oct 14, 2010)

And just to add some more, having seen you big up Turnbull and not to mention Faletau, the one thing we seem to be doing these days is making sure that kids have the chance develop from youth prospect to regional player.  There are a few discrepancies (Prydie being one of them), but a lot of the U20 players of recent times appear to be making the grade.  I can't remember the last time that the follow-through was anything like as good as it is now.  I think a developmental region might be only 5yrs away at this rate, taking us back to five.  That would be a genuinely good position to be in.

next, we should drop the EDF or whatever it is called these days, focus on re-arranging our season (with the other Celtic unions and Italy) around the 6N and Europe, ensure we play no domestic rugby during 6N time, bring back the A team proper and have a tournament for them like the old days.  That extra development would do wonders.  

Times are bright!


----------



## bendeus (Oct 23, 2010)

*Calling Infidel Castro*

Did you see that bobbins tonight?

The Blues are, without doubt, a club in crisis. They stopped playing a quarter into the game against Connacht, and they show no signs of starting again. They were dreadful tonight against a weak Scarlets side that, admittedly, is improving, but should have got nowhere near the Blues XV that was put out at home against them.

Where there was coherence, confidence, defensive surety and attacking elan, there was only confusion. This is a discombobulated, atomised, clueless side, and I can't quite work out why. They need the Oompa Loompa to get some stability back in the lineout (which was dreadful), and Roberts to return to get some go-forward one out from the ruck to take the pressure off Rush, who appears lateral, and significantly less than the player he was last season. Every side so far has double/treble marked him, and as a result, the Blues have no answer.

Also WTF has happened to Gethin. He was shamed today by some Turk nobody; the best loosehead in the world is currently looking far from it. NO scrum on earth should be bummed by the Turks (see Tiggers last week), but the Blues managed this with Gethin, Filise and Bradley in the engine room.

Cardiff will not qualify for the next round of the HEC this year, from the easiest group a Welsh club finds itself in. Utter wank.

The Os won't either, BTW. A shit season for Welsh regional rugby beckons


----------



## bendeus (Oct 25, 2010)

Well, Chavin to Sarries. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/saracens/9125923.stm

This one looks pretty nailed on.

Not going to kick up a fuss about it, 'cos it's been a big, long tale of tedium. Glad he's back playing, though. Love to see him back for the world cup. 

Wonder how he'll fare after 18 months out? He'll be targeted for sure. 10 or 12 is the other question.


----------



## mattie (Oct 26, 2010)

10, surely - replacement for Hougaard who's just popped his achilles (I assume you're asking where he'll play his club rugby)

If he's fighting fit it's a good move for all concerned, I'd have said - not much between Henson and a starting jersey (other 10s are, I think, still essentially Colts if we take Goode as a 15 from now on) and S.A.rries get an international who can kick well, tackle and can manage a game (thus filling Hougaard's boots) whilst adding a stronger running game.

My only query is over mindset.  Hougaard was very important to S.A.rries as he was the established, calm head with the youth all around him - the backs are in general pretty young and inexperienced, they are good players (Barritt, Cato, Goode) but Hougaard brought the nous and control.  Henson has that experience but he needs to be able to lead a bunch of young lads who will fuck it up occasionally.  I would place Henson as something of a loner as rugby player, no real problem in many cases but I'd say S.A.rries need more from him - he could be an ideal mentor for Barritt, Farrell et al. but he can't be aloof and he can't alienate teammates if he doesn't like the way things are going.

On the home front, Bath are missing Butch James badly - you simply can't have a high-tempo running game with a utility man at 10, and our tight-five aren't powerful enough to win us anything (they're losing it for us, if anything).  Abendanon has been superb and Luke Watson has just got better and better, he can even make a decent fist of 7 - something I'm sad to say that I'm not convinced Moody (for all his undoubted talent and dynamism) really is.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 26, 2010)

mattie said:


> 10, surely - replacement for Hougaard who's just popped his achilles (I assume you're asking where he'll play his club rugby)
> 
> If he's fighting fit it's a good move for all concerned, I'd have said - not much between Henson and a starting jersey (other 10s are, I think, still essentially Colts if we take Goode as a 15 from now on) and S.A.rries get an international who can kick well, tackle and can manage a game (thus filling Hougaard's boots) whilst adding a stronger running game.
> 
> ...


 
Welcome back, Mattie. The rygbi thread has been worse off without you.

Interesting that he'll be in at 10. If he performs, he has all the attributes to replace Wellies after the WC, and that would really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I must admit to a frisson of excitement at the thought of Spikey Pikey - Henson - Roberts - Hook.

Got to disagree, however, about his being a loner on the pitch. Off it, indisputably, but on it not at all. Edwards named him his defensive captain for a reason, and he was able to hold together a halfback partnership with Mike 'No-Brain' Phillips and James 'No-control' Hook while at 12. It's no coincidence that all Hook's best games at 10, for club or country, have been with Chavin outside him.

When's Butch back?


----------



## mattie (Oct 26, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Welcome back, Mattie. The rygbi thread has been worse off without you.
> 
> Interesting that he'll be in at 10. If he performs, he has all the attributes to replace Wellies after the WC, and that would really put the cat amongst the pigeons. I must admit to a frisson of excitement at the thought of Spikey Pikey - Henson - Roberts - Hook.
> 
> ...



I'd suggest that leadership starts off the pitch and reaches a natural conclusion on it.  

There have been a few things in his make-up that do not bode well -  the fiasco with his book and Alfie's public reaction, his open contempt for Woodward's methods during the NZ Lions tour - for his ability to get on as a team member in the broadest sense.  In both the examples I've given his assessment was perfectly justifiable (there were issues in the Welsh team, and Woodward is a legendary coach simply because he coached a team of legends), but the means for expressing his displeasure were hugely inadvisable and hurt everyone involved.  Himself included.

We're into broken record territory here though - most people (myself included) who have criticised Henson have criticised him precisely because of this; his ability and application in training are unquestionable, his ability to wind up people who are on his side undoes so much of that.  It's tragic and infuriating (and occasionally amusing for opposition fans) in equal measure.  I have similar feelings about Gazza, in that it's not exactly wasted talent but more talent incompletely realised for faintly ridiculous reasons, although to be fair Henson has never turned up pissed for training because he fancied a few cheeky halves with Chris Evans.  It's hard to get more pathetic than that.

Has he addressed this?  Will he work well with Ventor?  I've no doubts he's got the game to fit perfectly into that Sarries team, I will watch with great interest if he's got the head right.

Rumours are we're aiming to get Butch back for the Aironi game in (I think) late November.  Can't come quickly enough, we've lost a few games through idiocy (I assume everyone's aware of us turning down a winning drop-goal opportunity on the 5-metre line to try to get a try when we were down to 14 men?) but it's mostly the inability to exploit space and a very tidy backline that infuriate.  The components are there, not quite sure Vesty is able to mesh them like Butch does.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 26, 2010)

mattie said:


> I'd suggest that leadership starts off the pitch and reaches a natural conclusion on it.
> 
> There have been a few things in his make-up that do not bode well -  the fiasco with his book and Alfie's public reaction, his open contempt for Woodward's methods during the NZ Lions tour - for his ability to get on as a team member in the broadest sense.  In both the examples I've given his assessment was perfectly justifiable (there were issues in the Welsh team, and Woodward is a legendary coach simply because he coached a team of legends), but the means for expressing his displeasure were hugely inadvisable and hurt everyone involved.  Himself included.
> 
> ...


 
You're not wrong on any count. Chavin has a tendency to shoot his mouth off and land himself in hot water. He is also obviously uncomfortable with the 'all in it together' off-the-pitch ethic that helps to bind teams together.

However.

His on the pitch leadership has been proven at the highest level, leading to a grand slam with one of the flakiest half-back pairings (in terms of game managment and control) ever at the helm. His leading of the defense also saw Wales concede fewer tries than any other team in the competition before or since. Surely that would indicate his ability to a) provide leadership and, b) show guidance to more inexperienced players.

Anyway, you're right. Stuck record, etc. Move along now!


----------



## mattie (Oct 26, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Almost forgot to post this: Gavin Quinnell, younger brother of Craig and Scotty, and son of Derek, has been blinded in one eye after what many are saying was a deliberate stamp from a Cross Keys player. Link b'yur
> 
> Sounds like Quinnell was targeted from the off, not only because of his name, but because he was of a calibre above normal WP standard. Apparently, when ML/HEC/international level players drop down to WP level due to fitness/form or return from injury, they are often given a rough ride.
> 
> ...


 
Poor sod, truly dreadful.

I waver on the lifetime ban idea though.  Losing rag in the heat of battle says lenience, potential consequences and cowardice says throw the book at them.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 26, 2010)

mattie said:


> Poor sod, truly dreadful.
> 
> I waver on the lifetime ban idea though.  Losing rag in the heat of battle says lenience, potential consequences and cowardice says throw the book at them.


 
There's losing rag and windmilling in with a flurry of punches, or leaving a trailing elbow in the tackle, and there's deliberately and with forethought of action shoving your fingers hard into someone's unprotected eye sockets, or repeatedly stamping on someone's upturned face while wearing studs. The latter two actions are unconscionable, IMO, and have no place in the game. Quinell is proof if ever you need it that people can get seriously, life-changingly injured as a result of deliberate acts - his career is likely to have gone the same way as his eye. 

It's a game. A hard game, admittedly, but a game nonetheless. The type of wanker capable of doing that to somebody should have no place within it.


----------



## mattie (Oct 26, 2010)

bendeus said:


> There's losing rag and windmilling in with a flurry of punches, or leaving a trailing elbow in the tackle, and there's deliberately and with forethought of action shoving your fingers hard into someone's unprotected eye sockets, or repeatedly stamping on someone's upturned face while wearing studs. The latter two actions are unconscionable, IMO, and have no place in the game. Quinell is proof if ever you need it that people can get seriously, life-changingly injured as a result of deliberate acts - his career is likely to have gone the same way as his eye.
> 
> It's a game. A hard game, admittedly, but a game nonetheless. The type of wanker capable of doing that to somebody should have no place within it.


 
I don't think anyone would countenance it, but there are degrees to any offence which makes a life ban a tricky punishment to mete - at which point do you reach for the life ban?  It seems all or nothing to me, and judging the difference between intentional and reckless is not always simple.  

I'd isolate gouging as it's a strict liability offence, and take an 'assume guilty, prove innocent' approach of a huge ban by default unless the perpetrator can produce something mitigating.  A hand-off gone wrong or a grapple in a maul for example.  Perhaps the same with spear tackles, especially if someone's injured as a result.


----------



## mattie (Oct 26, 2010)

Some goodie gumdrops news, chaps - the beeb have got the AIs (England excepted, but highlights for those at least).

Even less housework will be done in November.

eta: I suppose you'll want a more authoratitive source than my rambling self:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2010/10_october/26/rugby.shtml


----------



## Infidel Castro (Oct 28, 2010)

Wales will get twatted this autumn.  It's going to be carnage.

I'm very worried.


----------



## mattie (Oct 28, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> Wales will get twatted this autumn.  It's going to be carnage.
> 
> I'm very worried.



I'm not sure any NH team is going to get much change out of the AIs, although England will no doubt get trounced in the early games and squeak a narrow win in the last to paper over the cracks.

Some very unfortunate injuries for Wales, and it won't help to have to shift Hook to 15.  Not sure how firm an option that is, not sure who's lined up in centres - I assume Shanklin 13 if Roberts crocked, who would 12 be?  Surely better to leave Hook where he is and get another 15 in?

The Henson/S.A.rries deal's been signed and delivered btw, not that it'll help in November but longer term prognosis is more encouraging.  Especially if the Beeb boot him out pronto, which - my missus informs me, I hasten to add - looks like might happen.

In other news, Phil Vickery has called it a day after yet another neck problem.  Awesome player, but it was painfully clear he was never back to his best after all the operations he's had on that part of his body.  Never moaned or shirked though, great bloke, best of luck to him for the future.


----------



## mattie (Oct 28, 2010)

For what it's worth, Bath are playing Sarries at the rec in about a month's time.  On ESPN as well.

Not sure if Butch will be back for it, if so that would make for an extremely interesting game.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 29, 2010)

mattie said:


> .In other news, Phil Vickery has called it a day after yet another neck problem.  Awesome player, but it was painfully clear he was never back to his best after all the operations he's had on that part of his body.  Never moaned or shirked though, great bloke, best of luck to him for the future.



Always one of those guys I liked to hate but did really admire. The stress these guys put thier bodies through is just unreal. At least he can spend time trying to get tickets to see Take That in Wembley now.

AS for Ireland in the AI's if we didn't have so many injuries I'd be hopeful. However I think a loss to SA, NZ and Australia is very likley. But we may beat Samoa!


----------



## bendeus (Oct 29, 2010)

mattie said:


> I'm not sure any NH team is going to get much change out of the AIs, although England will no doubt get trounced in the early games and squeak a narrow win in the last to paper over the cracks.
> 
> Some very unfortunate injuries for Wales, and it won't help to have to shift Hook to 15.  Not sure how firm an option that is, not sure who's lined up in centres - I assume Shanklin 13 if Roberts crocked, who would 12 be?  Surely better to leave Hook where he is and get another 15 in?



Aye. Chippy colonial pwnage is on the menu, be that in English, Welsh or Gaelic. Can't quite believe that in the space of one weekend Wales went from just having Roberts out, to having the spine ripped out of the side. Byrne's absence is particularly damaging as, yet again, it sucks all the creativity out of our midfield.



> The Henson/S.A.rries deal's been signed and delivered btw, not that it'll help in November but longer term prognosis is more encouraging.  Especially if the Beeb boot him out pronto, which - my missus informs me, I hasten to add - looks like might happen.



Your missus. C'mon Mattie, you want him to go all the way, dontcha?



> In other news, Phil Vickery has called it a day after yet another neck problem.  Awesome player, but it was painfully clear he was never back to his best after all the operations he's had on that part of his body.  Never moaned or shirked though, great bloke, best of luck to him for the future.



Got to be up there as one of the best props evah, no? As Flypanam says, he was one of that all-conquering Saes generation that us Celts hated, but couldn't help but respect. Massive player and a big loss to the game.


----------



## mattie (Oct 30, 2010)

Saw some of the Bledisloe Cup game, neither team looked too clever - a lot of mistakes and handling errors, and the crims got 2 tries off first-phase.  The crim scrum was hilarious yet again, including one memorable faceplant which stopped the scrum-half getting the ball in.

Both set of backs still look pretty scary in broken field.  James O'Conner finished off the equalising try in injury time beautifully, had at least 3 on him and he broke through.  Deceptively strong, and only a whippersnapper.  Kicked the conversion to win it just to cap it all off.  Cooper made some dodgy decisions under rush defense, but ball in hand he looks excellent.

Which, to me, means none of the NH teams should be kicking and should be taking the ball up and pushing for errors and space.  Which means, of course, England will launch it at every opportunity.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 30, 2010)

Bad result today for the NH, the aussies will be full of themselves now and the ABs will be sore. I fancied us to turn over at least one of those three but we've just got too many injuries


----------



## mattie (Oct 30, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Bad result today for the NH, the aussies will be full of themselves now and the ABs will be sore. I fancied us to turn over at least one of those three but we've just got too many injuries


 
Result not good, but neither team looked that solid.

Unlike, erm, rock-solid England.


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## mattie (Nov 2, 2010)

I've landed a ticket for the NZ game at HQ.  I shall be drinking and shouting copiously.

It's Bath vs Cardiff Friday night in the poor man's Heineken (would that make it Carlsberg?) which will be a nice warm-up.


----------



## mattie (Nov 2, 2010)

Sheridan replaces Payne.

Thank fuck.  Much as Sheridan is falsely eulogised in the press he's a fearsomely strong man who adds power and drive and has some decent skills as well.  I'm still never quite sure if Payne just comes on at scrumtime to wobble a bit and then toddle off back to the stands.  I appreciate club and international coaches see something in him, but precisely what that is is lost on me.

One potential trouble-spot is Hodgson at replacement 10.  Much as I like him as a creative fly-half he's half a defender.  That NZ backline get running at him and it could get very messy very quickly.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 2, 2010)

mattie said:


> I've landed a ticket for the NZ game at HQ.  I shall be drinking and shouting copiously.
> 
> It's Bath vs Cardiff Friday night in the poor man's Heineken (would that make it Carlsberg?) which will be a nice warm-up.


 Apparently England are going to front up and go for it. Who's in the starting lineup?. Could be a bit of a thrashing without wilko.


----------



## mattie (Nov 2, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Apparently England are going to front up and go for it. Who's in the starting lineup?. Could be a bit of a thrashing without wilko.



Same as for Oz except at Loosehead.

We don't have the set of forwards to boss games that we once had so we need to get what are - in some positions- decent backs going.  JW didn't always manage that, although he does seem to have picked up more of a flow at Toulon.  Flood has impressed me in a few games now, I'll admit I wasn't convinced when I first saw him but that (as per usual over the last 5 years and god knows how many backs) was when he was thrown into a horribly scratchy and dreary England team.  

Defensively we'll miss JW like mad, he's essentially another 6.

In terms of 'going for it', we seem to say that before every game - and for all the talk of the Oz game we have had other decent performances which have generally been followed up by utter dross.


----------



## what (Nov 2, 2010)

My Local has it on in 3D. Anyone know if the rugby is good in 3D?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 2, 2010)

what said:


> My Local has it on in 3D. Anyone know if the rugby is good in 3D?


 
If you want closeups of Andrew Sheridan's great arse in yer face, then don those glasses!


----------



## mattie (Nov 3, 2010)

bendeus said:


> If you want closeups of Andrew Sheridan's great arse in yer face, then don those glasses!



*system malfunction*



(please god, system malfunction)


----------



## bendeus (Nov 3, 2010)

bendeus said:


> If you want closeups of Andrew Sheridan's great arse in yer face, then don those glasses!


 



			
				Stephen Jones said:
			
		

> fapfapfapfapfapfapfap


----------



## mattie (Nov 3, 2010)

bendeus said:


>



Phwoar.







Like Joey Tribiani on steroids.


eta:  He's actually a lot more ripped than I thought he'd be.  Needs to get back on the pies.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 3, 2010)

Ireland: R Kearney; T Bowe, B O'Driscoll (capt), G D'Arcy, L Fitzgerald; J Sexton, E Reddan; C Healy, R Best, T Buckley; D O'Callaghan, M O'Driscoll; S Ferris, D Wallace, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, T Court, D Ryan, D Leamy, P Stringer, R O'Gara, K Earls or A Trimble or P Wallace

Thought Sean O'Brien would at least be on the bench, Dunno about Mick O'D either - his time has been up for long time, the bokke have loads of injuries though, so we should make it four? in a row against them.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 3, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Ireland: R Kearney; T Bowe, B O'Driscoll (capt), G D'Arcy, L Fitzgerald; J Sexton, E Reddan; C Healy, R Best, T Buckley; D O'Callaghan, M O'Driscoll; S Ferris, D Wallace, J Heaslip.
> 
> Replacements: S Cronin, T Court, D Ryan, D Leamy, P Stringer, R O'Gara, K Earls or A Trimble or P Wallace
> 
> Thought Sean O'Brien would at least be on the bench, Dunno about Mick O'D either - his time has been up for long time, the bokke have loads of injuries though, so we should make it four? in a row against them.



Looks Ok. I don't agree with Eoin Reddan as our first choice scrum half. And I don't think Cian Healy is going to put the fear into the Boks front row no matter how much he's developed. I think a narrow loss is on the cards.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 3, 2010)

Backs look potent, though D'Arcy's starting to creak. Halfbacks ok, nothing more. Backrow excellent as always, Locks decent, but no POC. Bench also decent. Plenty of impact and options to mix the game up a bit there. But, FFS, 1 and 3 should be nowhere near an international starting XV. The mere presence of Buckley and Wheelie should scream 'LOOK AT MEEEEEE! I'M GOING TO CHEAT, BORE IN, FAIL TO BIND AND CAUSE SHENANIGANS AT EVERY SINGLE SCRUM' to any referee with even the vaguest understanding of the scrum and the laws that dictate it. Sadly, Ireland have got away with shocking cheating up front for years (in the same way that the NZ backrow just seem to do whatever the fuck they want), and unfortunately, I don't see that changing any time soon, particularly in Dublin.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 3, 2010)

You're starting to sound like Brian Moore. The scrum is a joke these days anyway, constant resets and collapses. Buckley has come on leaps and bounds btw, he's a handful in the loose and Best is a good solid hooker. Healy is young and learning. I would have actually put Stringer in front of Reddan, He's been playing better this season. Earls will surely come on at some stage.


----------



## starfish (Nov 3, 2010)

New Zealand, then South Africa finishing with Samoa. Its going to be very tough. At least weve got a week to see how they all perform first up.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 4, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> You're starting to sound like Brian Moore. The scrum is a joke these days anyway, constant resets and collapses. Buckley has come on leaps and bounds btw, he's a handful in the loose and Best is a good solid hooker. Healy is young and learning. I would have actually put Stringer in front of Reddan, He's been playing better this season. Earls will surely come on at some stage.


 
I think that both Buckley and Healy are excellent in the loose. However, unless I'm terribly mistaken, a prop's ability in the loose has always come a distant second to his ability to a) scrummage and b) lift his man at the lineout in the fifteen man code. If we wanted a bunch of meaty whippets who are able to carry, ruck and jackal like a six, we'd either start watching league, or we'd put Gethin Jenkins on a breeding programme. 

I despair at the devaluing of the scrum in the modern game, and at the inability (unwillingness?) of referees to enforce the laws. It's a dangerous path we're heading down if the IRB is basically sanctioning the diminishment of the scrum as a platform for play, and as a distinct skill to be preserved in the 15 man code. The fact that Wales' scrum is pretty good at present is obviously a factor in my chagrin. As an Irishman I very much doubt you'd be too pleased if the refs started ignoring infringements by the weaker team in the lineout that robbed your side of one of its greatest competitive advantages, right?

For my tuppen'orth, I'd see the engage taken out of the game for ever. Scrums set static, and a far, far greater emphasis placed by the ref on a straight feed. The ability of sides to cheat would suddenly disappear in a puff of smoke, and it would come down to an honest competition of grunt, technical ability and the skill and reaction of the hooker, while preserving one of the most brilliant idiosyncrasies of our game. That can't be bad, can it?


----------



## mattie (Nov 4, 2010)

bendeus said:


> I think that both Buckley and Healy are excellent in the loose. However, unless I'm terribly mistaken, a prop's ability in the loose has always come a distant second to his ability to a) scrummage and b) lift his man at the lineout in the fifteen man code. If we wanted a bunch of meaty whippets who are able to carry, ruck and jackal like a six, we'd either start watching league, or we'd put Gethin Jenkins on a breeding programme.
> 
> I despair at the devaluing of the scrum in the modern game, and at the inability (unwillingness?) of referees to enforce the laws. It's a dangerous path we're heading down if the IRB is basically sanctioning the diminishment of the scrum as a platform for play, and as a distinct skill to be preserved in the 15 man code. The fact that Wales' scrum is pretty good at present is obviously a factor in my chagrin. As an Irishman I very much doubt you'd be too pleased if the refs started ignoring infringements by the weaker team in the lineout that robbed your side of one of its greatest competitive advantages, right?
> 
> For my tuppen'orth, *I'd see the engage taken out of the game for ever*. Scrums set static, and a far, far greater emphasis placed by the ref on a straight feed. The ability of sides to cheat would suddenly disappear in a puff of smoke, and it would come down to an honest competition of grunt, technical ability and the skill and reaction of the hooker, while preserving one of the most brilliant idiosyncrasies of our game. That can't be bad, can it?


 
Hallelujah.

When I were a lad we bound in stages, the front rows were already engaged by the time I was groping around trying not to grab the prop's tackle when getting a bind.  On those occasions when I did accidentally grab the family jewels I was very, very glad he was already locked into the other front row.

It would also mean the crims would be fucked as they couldn't play little games with the ref to make up for an inability to scrum.


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## bendeus (Nov 4, 2010)

mattie said:


> Hallelujah.
> 
> When I were a lad we bound in stages, the front rows were already engaged by the time I was groping around trying not to grab the prop's tackle when getting a bind.  On those occasions when I did accidentally grab the family jewels I was very, very glad he was already locked into the other front row.
> 
> It would also mean the crims would be fucked as they couldn't play little games with the ref to make up for an inability to scrum.



The crims and the honest Irish, Mattie. They're both just as guilty. But yes, aside from ensuring the sanctity of the scrum, the law changes would also mean for far less nut groping, which may or may not be something that many rugby teams would welcome


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## bendeus (Nov 4, 2010)

bendeus said:


> The crims and the honest Irish, Mattie. They're both just as guilty. But yes, aside from ensuring the sanctity of the scrum, the law changes would also mean for far less nut groping, which may or may not be something that many rugby teams would welcome


 
And as an aside, given that the new interpretation of the breakdown seems to have completely freed up the game, and moved us from aerial ping-pong and wait for the other side to fuck up to running from deep and playing heads up, try scoring football, then sorting of the scrum would pretty much mean a full house in terms of providing a free-flowing, exciting spectacle based on skills and technique - rugby will finally have got its house in order.


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## mattie (Nov 4, 2010)

bendeus said:


> And as an aside, given that the new interpretation of the breakdown seems to have completely freed up the game, and moved us from aerial ping-pong and wait for the other side to fuck up to running from deep and playing heads up, try scoring footbally, then sorting of the scrum would pretty much mean a full house in terms of spectating - rugby will finally have got its house in order.



And back to a game of all shapes, sizes, strengths and weaknesses.

Scary Northampton props excepted.


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## bendeus (Nov 4, 2010)

mattie said:


> And back to a game of all shapes, sizes, strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> Scary Northampton props excepted.


 
Aye. Amen to that


----------



## mattie (Nov 4, 2010)

Might also mean we lose less props to borked necks and shoulders.

The impact at the point of engagement must be huge.


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## bendeus (Nov 4, 2010)

Team Wales unofficially announced:

Hook, Harries, Bishop, Shanklin, Williams, Jones, Phillips
Jenkins, Rees, Jones, Bradley, AWJ, Dan Lydiate, Warburton, Jonathan Thomas

Replacements: Huw Bennett, Paul James, Deiniol Jones, Martyn Williams, Richie Rees, Dan Biggar, Chris Czekaj 

That's a very decent looking pack. Interested also in the backrow. With the exception of JT, these could well be our 6&7 combo for a number of years to come.

Worried about the (usual) total lack of creativity at centre now that Hook's been pulled back to FB (though they're defensively very strong), the size of our wingers and the relative positional or actual experience of our back 3.

We really, really, really should  be trying to keep this one tight. Oz are far superior in the backs and at the breakdown. We can't afford to give them turnover ball, and we can't afford to let them run it at us, so we need at the very minimum a decent setpiece. Scrum will go fine. Lineout ...................FFS!


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## The Boy (Nov 4, 2010)

Agreed on the scrum.  Was re-watching NZ-France from 1979 the other day.  Not one scrum had to be reset.

Anyway, on the AI front, France are gonna get trounced.  Forwards look very, very strong but ML is having his last tinker with the backs before deciding on his final 30 that will remain in place between now and RWC.

Rougerie is moved to centre permanently it seems - fine by me.  Trinh-Duc is out so I think Traille (yes, I know) is getting the nod ahead of Wisniewski, Beauxis and Skrela.  Andreu included ahead of Clerc which is a shame as Clerc seems to be coming back into form.  No Poitrenaud so prob Medard a FB, hopefully he nails his place.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 4, 2010)

The Boy said:


> Agreed on the scrum.  Was re-watching NZ-France from 1979 the other day.  Not one scrum had to be reset.
> 
> Anyway, on the AI front, France are gonna get trounced.  Forwards look very, very strong but ML is having his last tinker with the backs before deciding on his final 30 that will remain in place between now and RWC.
> 
> Rougerie is moved to centre permanently it seems - fine by me.  Trinh-Duc is out so I think Traille (yes, I know) is getting the nod ahead of Wisniewski, Beauxis and Skrela.  Andreu included ahead of Clerc which is a shame as Clerc seems to be coming back into form.  No Poitrenaud so prob Medard a FB, hopefully he nails his place.


 
Do you think this season will see the defensive, ultra conservative tactics of 2009/10 reemployed by France again? Can't see it myself - the game has moved on. It would be great to see a return of a bit of Gallic flair accompanied by some solid defense, setpiece and breakdown work.


----------



## mattie (Nov 5, 2010)

Bath vs Blues tonight.

Olly Barkley at 10, apparently.  And Lee Mears on the bench.  A few lads I reckon could be very, very good are in the back row, Josh Ovens and Guy Mercer, and Skirving who has disappointed in his early Bath days but looks to have found form is at 8.  Any ideas who they're up against in the back row?  Is Rush rested or in?

We've also picked Jacques Boussuge at wing, a flyer from French 7s but not quite found his feet in the 15-man game and this will be his full debut after some good performances for Bath United.  Bananaman is at 13 and is captain, he has had a few superb games in that position but I wonder if his move off the wing is more for England's benefit than ours.  Carraro is hitting good form (rested tonight) which mitigates losing Banahan off the wing but we're still a little bit light in that position after losing Maddock.  

That sums up the Bath angle.  I suppose I should stoke up some taff indignation but I've just had a good lunch and I'm a little bit tired.  I'll try again later.


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## bendeus (Nov 5, 2010)

mattie said:


> Bath vs Blues tonight.
> 
> Olly Barkley at 10, apparently.  And Lee Mears on the bench.  A few lads I reckon could be very, very good are in the back row, Josh Ovens and Guy Mercer, and Skirving who has disappointed in his early Bath days but looks to have found form is at 8.  Any ideas who they're up against in the back row?  Is Rush rested or in?
> 
> ...


 
15 Dan Fish 14 Richard Mustoe 13 Gavin Evans 12 Dafydd Hewitt 11 James Loxton 10 Gareth Davies 9 Lloyd Williams

8 Tom Brown 7 Ben White 6 Andries Pretorius (c) 5 James Down 4 Bryn Griffiths 3 John Yapp 2 Gareth Williams 1 Tom Davies

If Bath don't give that lot a fearful he-humping then I'll choke on my leek. The just back from injury Oompa Loompa is the only player there who can even vaguely be described as first choice. Pretorius at 6 is a very decent player in the making, Lloyd Williams is going well as backup to Richie Rees, Mustoe is a good, solid ML player and a trier, and Dan Fish scores some pretty tries at U21 level. Looks like your boys have a few internationals on the bench or in the side. Strong tight five as well. Only going to go one way.


----------



## mattie (Nov 5, 2010)

We seem to be pratting about with positions a bit, mainly to see how we might reshuffle given injuries.  We're also giving some of our bench players a run (Batty, Lobbe, VDG etc) but some of the lads picked (especially Williams at 12 and the lads at flanker) have been making a very strong case for a run in the first team.  The first-teamers on the bench are coming off injury (Barnes and Mears) so I'd expect them to put in an appearance.

Shame it's a bit denuded, but I hope the young lads take it as an opportunity to impress.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Nov 5, 2010)

When I saw Dan Fish at 15 I immediately thought 'development'.  I think the Anglo-Welsh has finally run its course when we're fielding Glam Wanderers players.  I do like our Lloyd Williams though.  Very nice player already.  No wonder Coops thought it best to slip away for surgery...

I quite like the make-up of the Wales team now I've had time to consider it.  I was at first miffed at the Hook to full-back move, but having such a solid back-row and 9, 10, 11, 12 set, I can see where Gats is going.  We've got grafters all over the park tomorrow.  We should at least look solid in defence.  Then, with Hook, Williams and Harries running the ball back (rather than lumping it to fuck like the past couple of years), we do have two VERY creative players and a bloody good sevens player.  Fingers crossed it's enough.  I like the look of the tight-five, and the back-row makes a lot of sense in the end.  The bench isn't exactly burgeoning though...

And Bendy, I agree completely about the scrummaging.  Good thinking there.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 5, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> When I saw Dan Fish at 15 I immediately thought 'development'.  I think the Anglo-Welsh has finally run its course when we're fielding Glam Wanderers players.  I do like our Lloyd Williams though.  Very nice player already.  No wonder Coops thought it best to slip away for surgery...
> 
> I quite like the make-up of the Wales team now I've had time to consider it.  I was at first miffed at the Hook to full-back move, but having such a solid back-row and 9, 10, 11, 12 set, I can see where Gats is going.  We've got grafters all over the park tomorrow.  We should at least look solid in defence.  Then, with Hook, Williams and Harries running the ball back (rather than lumping it to fuck like the past couple of years), we do have two VERY creative players and a bloody good sevens player.  Fingers crossed it's enough.  I like the look of the tight-five, and the back-row makes a lot of sense in the end.  The bench isn't exactly burgeoning though...
> 
> And Bendy, I agree completely about the scrummaging.  Good thinking there.


 
I've got no problem with our running it back at them, but we need to do it intelligently or Pocock will chew us up and spit it out. That means running towards rather than away from support, and not trying to offload fucking basketball passes when under pressure (James Hook, take note). It's better to make fewer yards and recycle from a well-defended ruck than have Pocock turn us over and have the likes of Cooper, Giteau, et al running it back at a disorganised line.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 6, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Do you think this season will see the defensive, ultra conservative tactics of 2009/10 reemployed by France again? Can't see it myself - the game has moved on. It would be great to see a return of a bit of Gallic flair accompanied by some solid defense, setpiece and breakdown work.


 
Wouldn't bes surprised if we see a repeat in the AIs of the overly-negative rugby France have been playing of late.  A few Top14 teams are playing in an out of date fashion _viz_ the rule changes (I'm thinking in particular of Toulon here) and there is just too much fiddling going on in the national setup.  

The forwards are a seriously solid group of players and they pretty much choose themselves.  Reasonable strength in depth too, and with Szarz being suspended Guirado has a chance to claim the second choice hooker slot.  This is a good thing.

Backs are a fucking mess though.  We just don't have the players, and there is no strength in depth whatsoever - Yachvili has been recalled and Traille is most likely to be starting at 10, ffs.

Going to be a long year methinks.


----------



## DuckQuack'sEcho (Nov 6, 2010)

Should be a good contest between my Wallabies and Wales early tomorrow morning (my time). I think we have more flair, particularly in the backs but Wales might be stronger, but more pedestrian in the forwards. Geeze, I hope in doesn't turn out to be penalty after penalty with the game decided on penalty goals. Let 'em run and put the whistle in your pocket. I hope there is one ref from the southern hemisphere at least.


----------



## mattie (Nov 6, 2010)

bendeus said:


> 15 Dan Fish 14 Richard Mustoe 13 Gavin Evans 12 Dafydd Hewitt 11 James Loxton 10 Gareth Davies 9 Lloyd Williams
> 
> 8 Tom Brown 7 Ben White 6 Andries Pretorius (c) 5 James Down 4 Bryn Griffiths 3 John Yapp 2 Gareth Williams 1 Tom Davies
> 
> If Bath don't give that lot a fearful he-humping then I'll choke on my leek. The just back from injury Oompa Loompa is the only player there who can even vaguely be described as first choice. Pretorius at 6 is a very decent player in the making, Lloyd Williams is going well as backup to Richie Rees, Mustoe is a good, solid ML player and a trier, and Dan Fish scores some pretty tries at U21 level. Looks like your boys have a few internationals on the bench or in the side. Strong tight five as well. Only going to go one way.


 
It rained.  And rained and rained and rained.

I'm still wringing my jeans out.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 6, 2010)

mattie said:


> It rained.  And rained and rained and rained.
> 
> I'm still wringing my jeans out.


 
Worst match report. Evah.

Come on - details!


----------



## bendeus (Nov 6, 2010)

DuckQuack'sEcho said:


> Should be a good contest between my Wallabies and Wales early tomorrow morning (my time). I think we have more flair, particularly in the backs but Wales might be stronger, but more pedestrian in the forwards. Geeze, I hope in doesn't turn out to be penalty after penalty with the game decided on penalty goals. Let 'em run and put the whistle in your pocket. I hope there is one ref from the southern hemisphere at least.


 
There is absolutely no chance that this will be decided on penalties. You'll do us by two clear scores IMO.


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## bendeus (Nov 6, 2010)

So, we lost. Massive performance by our pack, mind - our tight five was magnificent.

/ref rant/ the crims repeatedly infringed at scrumtime, giving away penalty after penalty for the same offence (something like six or seven over the course of the game). Why, then, did Barnes not card their props, particularly when collapsing it on their own 5 metre line? Laws of the game state that a yellow should be awarded for repeated infringement, and that's what that was, Marred an otherwise good performance with cowardice /ref rant over/

Gethin two turnovers won), Adam and Bradley Davies were wonderful today. Warburton is growing into a real SH style, physical, ball ripping openside. He matched Pocock for turnovers today (just that we didn't really know what to do with the ball when he did, unlike the Aussies. 

Backs looked clueless again. In fairness, we were missing 4 of our first choice back line, including our three top ranking centres. There was no creativity in that midfield, and it showed. Byrne's absence also nullified any potency behind the scrum. However, that pack with our first choice back line (Byrne, Williams, Roberts, Henson, 1/2p Wellies, Spikey Pikey) could really cause some damage/.

Cautious optimism. We'll see how they go against the ABs, who will offer a lot more up front.


----------



## mattie (Nov 7, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Worst match report. Evah.
> 
> Come on - details!


 
I think it might have been high pressure over the north sea.


----------



## starfish (Nov 7, 2010)

bendeus said:


> So, we lost. Massive performance by our pack, mind - our tight five was magnificent.


 
Just how good would the Aussies be if they had even a half decent front row.


----------



## mattie (Nov 8, 2010)

starfish said:


> Just how good would the Aussies be if they had even a half decent front row.



Indeed.  

Some sad but rather inevitable news, I'm afraid, Thom Evans has announced he's had to quit rugby after damaging vertebrae in the 6N game against Wales.  Only 24.  Very sorry to hear that.

To lighten the post, I'll actually make some serious comments about the Bath/Blues game.  Note that I didn't say 'informed' or 'balanced'.

Guy Mercer had a very decent game, looks to have a lot of craft to his game which bodes very well as Moody both isn't really a 7 and isn't likely to feature for all that long.  Josh Ovens showed some quality but didn't have quite the physical threat that a 6 should demonstrate, but I was quietly impressed by the blues young guns who forced the issue.  They displayed a lot of enthusiasm and troubled Bath on quite a few occasions - a hair's breadth from a try which would have put them in a good position for the win.  I'm not sure about Barkley at 10, although he made one lovely space-finding pass to put Batty through (Batty picking some decent lines in the loose) which led to a try, and put a perfectly weighted kick on turnover ball behind the blues forwards out on the wing for Biggs to scamper onto.  Other than that, we seemed to rely on switch/loops with Bananaman and Williams trying to blast through the Blues midfield.  I don't think it worked once, which is credit to Blues as Bananaman is a mightily powerful bloke and very good on crash ball.  As anticipated, Bath were a lot more powerful up front although Skirving got caught and knocked backwards a few too many times for my liking - some decent drive from the Blues backrow.


----------



## gabi (Nov 8, 2010)

NZ looked pretty dominant on the w/e then.... 

dont really watch rugby much, but enjoyed it. watched it with a couple of czech friends who'd never seen anything like it. seeing it thru their eyes made me realise just how brutal a sport it is.


----------



## mattie (Nov 8, 2010)

gabi said:


> NZ looked pretty dominant on the w/e then....
> 
> dont really watch rugby much, but enjoyed it. watched it with a couple of czech friends who'd never seen anything like it. seeing it thru their eyes made me realise just how brutal a sport it is.



I wouldn't say dominant, but certainly well worth their win.  England were beginning to stretch them at times but ignored overlaps or span it wide without committing tacklers.  and the less said about the excuse for a line-out the better, although we did boss the scrum.  NZ did exactly what was needed when it was needed, taking advantage of some weak England play in the opening 20 minutes.  Near the end it was all England.

England were a lot improved on our last NZ performances, but NZ always looked dangerous and scrambled well when required.  Just not enough pressure exerted, even when they were down to 14 (I know!  An All Black yellow!)

In attack, they also had extra men out wide every. single. time.  If we were turned or didn't compete well when NZ took it into contact we were always stretched.  Although our back three and loose forwards did sterling work putting in tackles, you play a very, very risky game giving those centres (fuck me, Sonny Bill Williams is a big lad but he's got fair pace and some soft hands on him) and those flyers in the back three any hint of a space.  Too many scrambled tackles for my liking, although we held firm in terms of stopping tries for the latter part of the game it meant a few penalties were inevitably going to be conceded, which Carter despatched.

Shame we butchered two overlaps, once when Hape was denied by the TV ref and once when Foden was held up over the line.  If they were executed better Hape could have walked in and Foden shouldn't have been bundled up.  NZ didn't butcher their chances, they looked a lot, lot more precise and never got into a positional mangle - a team that looks settled and confident in what needs to be done.  A frustrating close but no cigar, and to be honest still significant daylight between the teams.

Still, bring on OZ.  Some great backs but our forwards should mangle the scrum.


----------



## gabi (Nov 8, 2010)

NZ will bottle it as always in the world cup tho 

they ALWAYS peak at just the wrong time. i think England looked to be building nicely in time for 11 months time.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 8, 2010)

starfish said:


> Just how good would the Aussies be if they had even a half decent front row.


 
Just how good would wales be if they had their first choice back line behind that pack? Haven't seen it since 2008.

* Oh, and a decent attack coach


----------



## bendeus (Nov 8, 2010)

mattie said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Some sad but rather inevitable news, I'm afraid, Thom Evans has announced he's had to quit rugby after damaging vertebrae in the 6N game against Wales.  Only 24.  Very sorry to hear that.
> 
> ...


 
Nice one, Mattie. What did you think of Pretorius (6), Fish, (15) for the Blues? Any thoughts also on their s/h?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 8, 2010)

E2A: Terrible thing for Thom Evans. Poor bastard. Apparently it's as much about insurance as anything else. Big loss for the Jocks - he was developing nicely.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 8, 2010)

gabi said:


> NZ will bottle it as always in the world cup tho
> 
> they ALWAYS peak at just the wrong time. i think England looked to be building nicely in time for 11 months time.


 
England won't win the thing with that 10, 12, 13 combo. They'll be competitive, but no winners, IMO.


----------



## mattie (Nov 8, 2010)

bendeus said:


> England won't win the thing with that 10, 12, 13 combo. They'll be competitive, but no winners, IMO.



Aye.  Bring it Tait!


----------



## mattie (Nov 8, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Nice one, Mattie. What did you think of Pretorius (6), Fish, (15) for the Blues? Any thoughts also on their s/h?



Cardiff fan near me was raving about the 9, I thought the 10 stood out more - decent decisions and good kicking.

The whole Blues back row were impressive, certainly put in some power when needed - Skirving and Ovens were knocked back on a number of occasions.  The 7 (I think he's a crim?) turned a few over as well.

The 15 had a decent game, and one nice little darting return from an over-hit Bath kick led to a kick and chase which was eventually recycled for the try.  We never managed to really puncture the line either, Cuthbert at 15 had a few decent runs but the defence was generally solid - our 2 tries took advantage of forwards out in the defensive line.

I will say it was a very entertaining game, good endeavour from both sides especially given the conditions.  it did get a little bit kick-oriented near the end as the rain got even more biblical, but still efforts to run it.  Bodes well for both teams.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 8, 2010)

mattie said:


> Aye.  Bring it Tait!


----------



## starfish (Nov 8, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Just how good would wales be if they had their first choice back line behind that pack? Haven't seen it since 2008.
> 
> * Oh, and a decent attack coach


 
Pretty good i reckon but i wasnt just referring to saturdays game. The Aussie have been shit up front for a few years now but are still capable of beating anyone & everyone down to the skill & power of their back line.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Nov 9, 2010)

There was me thinking that the Oz pack got their shit together a bit more in the Tri-nations.  Must have been misled.  They were certainly no mugs in the tight last year when they twatted us at the MS.  

In reflection, and looking ahead, Wales are only a positional change and a player or two away from having a top-5 set-up.  Hook HAS to start at centre.  I thought he'd have a bit more opportunity to run back at Aus on Sat, but they made sure he had the ball in shit areas.  Cracking kicking by Cooper in that regard.  I remember when Wales had a feller called Cooper who could play a bit, but that was a flash in the pan...

Shanks and Bish did well in their defensive roles, but I'd still prefer to see Hook plus A N Other.  In this instance, I'd prefer the *slightly* more attack-minded Bish, but I do still harbour hopes for Hook and Henson by 6N time (it's got class stamped all over it).  I's rather see that than Roberts and Hook, though the idea of Hook at 10 nowadays doesn't seem so scary.  There is suddenly a lot more emphasis on a 10 with guile, the kicking game having tailed off as a requirement.  So Hook 10, Henson 12, Roberts 13 might be nice, as might Jon Davies or Bish at 13.  We've got to make more of Bish - he's our strong, silent type.

I'd rather see North have a go against S Africa, though I'd prefer 'Penny to him.  I'd prefer Brew to Harries after Sat, but I also realise that we didn't eactly let him show his stuff.  It would be harsh to drop him.

The back-row should remain unless R Jones can take up 6 from Lydiate, thought that again would be unfair.  Powell can fuck off to the Bench, the gormless bastard.  

Waffling a bit here now, but I hope Byrne is back fit.  If not, i would chuck Czekaj in for no other reason that to put Hook elsewhere.  Best of a bad lot in support of Byrne's nailed-on shirt, but something to at least give us some flair where we need it.  And Rees to start.  Our pack coped very well without M Phillips' attempts to be one of them last Sat, so he needs a lesson in bench-warming.  Rees was very sharp when he came on and deserves a start.


----------



## mattie (Nov 9, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> There was me thinking that the Oz pack got their shit together a bit more in the Tri-nations.  Must have been misled.  They were certainly no mugs in the tight last year when they twatted us at the MS.
> 
> In reflection, and looking ahead, Wales are only a positional change and a player or two away from having a top-5 set-up.  Hook HAS to start at centre.  I thought he'd have a bit more opportunity to run back at Aus on Sat, but they made sure he had the ball in shit areas.  Cracking kicking by Cooper in that regard.  I remember when Wales had a feller called Cooper who could play a bit, but that was a flash in the pan...
> 
> ...


 
Given the orange one's likely role at saffarecens, maybe 10 Chavin, 12 Hook?

Nice problem to have.


----------



## mattie (Nov 9, 2010)

Beauootiful stream for the Leicester/crim game here:

http://mypremium.tv/

Expect Leicester to kick arse up front, get outclassed at the breakdown and get mauled out wide.  So says I, Captain Obvious.


----------



## mattie (Nov 9, 2010)

Tuilagi's dirt-tracking the crims, some big hits going in.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Nov 9, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> Powell can fuck off to the Bench, the gormless bastard.




I'd agree with pretty much everything you said there, especially dropping Mikey Phillips, he's gone of the boil and we can't let him become complacent. I'd be alarmed to see Czekaj in the starting 15 mind. He hasn't got the bottle for it, he always stops before contact, just taking the tackle.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 9, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> There was me thinking that the Oz pack got their shit together a bit more in the Tri-nations.  Must have been misled.  They were certainly no mugs in the tight last year when they twatted us at the MS.



They bummed us  because Paul James was at tighthead, and he ain't no tighthead. That said, they're *supposedly* improved. Absolutely gash from where I was lounging.



> In reflection, and looking ahead, Wales are only a positional change and a player or two away from having a top-5 set-up.  Hook HAS to start at centre.  I thought he'd have a bit more opportunity to run back at Aus on Sat, but they made sure he had the ball in shit areas.  Cracking kicking by Cooper in that regard.  I remember when Wales had a feller called Cooper who could play a bit, but that was a flash in the pan...



I really don't know about Hook. I'm willing him with every fibre of my being to come good and actually put in a composed performance, but he never does. There's always a brainfart, always a sliced kick, an interception, or a stupid run away from support. He ain't no FB, that's for sure, and he ain't no 10. I'm left wondering what room for him there is beyond a utility/impact sub if we have our first choice backline of Wellies/Biggar, Henson, Roberts and Byrne either pre or post WC. Sad waste of an instinctive talent, but the boy hasn't got a rugby brain.



> Shanks and Bish did well in their defensive roles, but I'd still prefer to see Hook plus A N Other.  In this instance, I'd prefer the *slightly* more attack-minded Bish



You surprise me. Shanklin was our standout back in both attack and defence against the Crims.



> , but I do still harbour hopes for Hook and Henson by 6N time (it's got class stamped all over it).  I's rather see that than Roberts and Hook, though the idea of Hook at 10 nowadays doesn't seem so scary.  There is suddenly a lot more emphasis on a 10 with guile, the kicking game having tailed off as a requirement.  So Hook 10, Henson 12, Roberts 13 might be nice, as might Jon Davies or Bish at 13.  We've got to make more of Bish - he's our strong, silent type.



i think what you may be saying is that, with everyone fit, we have an embarrasment of riches, and a wonderful set of skills and styles, able to slot in at 12 and 13.



> I'd rather see North have a go against S Africa, though I'd prefer 'Penny to him.  I'd prefer Brew to Harries after Sat, but I also realise that we didn't eactly let him show his stuff.  It would be harsh to drop him.



North, please. The boy's got class and he's massive (and English). Cap the feckah!



> The back-row should remain unless R Jones can take up 6 from Lydiate, thought that again would be unfair.  Powell can fuck off to the Bench, the gormless bastard.



Warburton is injured, which is gutting. He matched Pocock on Saturday, IMO. In his absence it should be Lydiate, Ryan, Nugget with Mongo as an impact sub. The Powell 6/8, Jones 8/6 and Nugget 7 experiment has not really delivered. Ever.



> Waffling a bit here now, but I hope Byrne is back fit.



Looks like he will be. Thank fuck.



> If not, i would chuck Czekaj in for no other reason that to put Hook elsewhere.



Agreed, as you said before, we have to get Hook into midfield. The current stodge is screaming out for some creativity.



> And Rees to start.  Our pack coped very well without M Phillips' attempts to be one of them last Sat, so he needs a lesson in bench-warming.  Rees was very sharp when he came on and deserves a start



Warburton's injury has put paid to that, IMO. The dropoff in physicality with Nugget there will require a third flanker at 9 to keep that raw meat eating Boer backrow in check. Spikey for 60, then Rees on when the game opens up.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 9, 2010)

mattie said:


> Given the orange one's likely role at saffarecens, maybe 10 Chavin, 12 Hook?
> 
> Nice problem to have.


 
I reckon this will happen. If so, it's the only way we can incorporate Hook into a first choice backline (see above). And you're right, it is, isn't it?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 9, 2010)

Threshers_Flail said:


> I'd agree with pretty much everything you said there, especially dropping Mikey Phillips, he's gone of the boil and we can't let him become complacent. I'd be alarmed to see Czekaj in the starting 15 mind. He hasn't got the bottle for it, he always stops before contact, just taking the tackle.


 
Genuine question - did you not think that:

a) Spikey put in a very decent first half performance

and

b) That he did exactly what Gatland wanted him to?


----------



## mattie (Nov 9, 2010)

Austin Healey and Ben Kay no fans of Kaplan, some pretty direct criticism of his calls/lack of calls - surprisingly sustained, even given their green-tinged glasses.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 9, 2010)

I'm no fan of Kaplan, either.

That said, I think Healey is a bellend, too.

Hmmmmm


----------



## mattie (Nov 9, 2010)

One of the better commentators - not just platitudes and a good insight into the technical aspects of the game.

His banter with Ben Kay is enough to turn your hair grey though.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 9, 2010)

On that score I absolutely agree. He's one of the best analysts of the game on the TV at the moment. I just have that 'English Golden Era' kneejerk when it comes to him, sorry Mattie.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 9, 2010)

We were never going to win that first match in out brand new(half empty) stadium. Nerves all over the place. O'Gara could have levelled it with a penalty which hit the post but in truth we didn't deserve it. SA owned the set piece and had great ball retention and it's a very difficult game to play when you don't have the ball. We tried to play a more expansive game - nuts in those conditions. Samoa at the weekend and hopefully some of these lot should put their hands up for the test team.

Ireland: L Fitzgerald; T Bowe, B O'Driscoll, P Wallace, A Trimble; R O'Gara, P Stringer; T Court, S Cronin, J Hayes; D O'Callaghan, D Toner; D Leamy, S O'Brien, J Heaslip


----------



## mattie (Nov 10, 2010)

Mealamu banned for 4 weeks.

For those who weren't aware, he nutted a prone Lewis Moody when entering a ruck.  That's the Lewis Moody who has just recovered from cranial damage.

He's also the hero who speared O'Driscoll.

Not wanting to dwell on this, and to be fair Hartley also entered a ruck in a decidedly questionable manner later in the game and had a ding-dong with McCaw, but this bloke does piss me off.

eta: Fucking laughable. The AB's excuses for this range from the 'it was unintentional' to the 'Moody insulted my family'.  Which fucking one is it?  they're diametrically opposed, you utter planks.

I can stomach McCaw lying offside, if the ref doesn't call it, keep doing it.  I can stomach dummy runners taking out the defensive line,if the ref doesn't call it, keep doing it.  I can't stand the complete contempt for an opponent's safety and a complete lack of any contrition after the event.

eta2:  And until Hartley sorts out the niggly nastiness he can do one too.  Mears is twice the footballer he is, I'd rather have an undersized hooker with running and handling ability than a chunky thug.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 10, 2010)

mattie said:


> Mealamu banned for 4 weeks.
> 
> For those who weren't aware, he nutted a prone Lewis Moody when entering a ruck.  That's the Lewis Moody who has just recovered from cranial damage.
> 
> ...


----------



## starfish (Nov 10, 2010)

mattie said:


> Mealamu banned for 4 weeks.
> 
> For those who weren't aware, he nutted a prone Lewis Moody when entering a ruck.  That's the Lewis Moody who has just recovered from cranial damage.
> 
> ...


 
Good, he deserved that.


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2010)

lol @ poor, sweet lewis moody. harmless little lamb.

4 weeks is a tad harsh. lets at least hope for some consistency the next time that dirty fucker crosses the line.


----------



## mattie (Nov 10, 2010)

gabi said:


> lol @ poor, sweet lewis moody. harmless little lamb.
> 
> 4 weeks is a tad harsh. lets at least hope for some consistency the next time that dirty fucker crosses the line.



Thank you for instantiating my point.

Lewis Moody is not a snide cheap-shot merchant who injures other players whilst they're defenceless.


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2010)

mattie said:


> Thank you for instantiating my point.
> 
> Lewis Moody is not a snide cheap-shot merchant who injures other players whilst they're defenceless.


 
Yup, he's totally clean. never been sent off or banned in his life, right?


----------



## mattie (Nov 10, 2010)

gabi said:


> Yup, he's totally clean. never been sent off or banned in his life, right?



Not, to the best of my knowledge, for spear-tackling or for headbutting prone players who had just returned from damage to their eye socket.


----------



## mattie (Nov 10, 2010)

AB coach reckions Hartley should have been cited - he does indeed have a point, Hartley needs a bollocking to channel aggression in a way that isn't cheap-shotting, but let us have a little look a the ensuing rumpus.









Oh, and and the inadvertent/deliberative revenge (delete as appropriate) headbutt in all its glory:




eta:  in the interests of balance, it would appear from other videos that the errant fingers in Hartley's eyes might belong to Tom Croft


----------



## flypanam (Nov 10, 2010)

Missed most of the games at the weekend. I did see most of Ireland and am glad Tom Court came on. He at least provided a little stability at the scrum. Ireland just can't persist with players like Reddan, Buckley, Mick O' Driscoll (who was not the worst) and Healy (though we have no choice there). 

I think the whole idea of NZ choking should be put to bed now. In 1987 they won the WC in Eden Park, in NZ and with a home crowd I think they have much less chance of slipping up. I can only see Australia upsetting them.


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2010)

It's a long way away. NZ will still choke. Which is arguably a good thing as it often results in a change of government when they do - could do with getting the current lot out.


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2010)

NZ's appealing. Let's hope sanity prevails...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/nov/10/new-zealand-keven-mealamu-moody


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Nov 10, 2010)

> "It surprises me. He's probably the cleanest player in the world, isn't he?"



^^This quote from Graham Henry is hilarious 



Err... No Graham... Just no 

Good riddance for four weeks.


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2010)

that just gets better with every viewing


----------



## mattie (Nov 10, 2010)

Heroic.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 10, 2010)

gabi said:


> Yup, he's totally clean. never been sent off or banned in his life, right?


 
And your point is, caller? That just because Moody has been known to be a dirty, cheating fecker we shouldn't censure another dirty, cheating fecker? In that case the crims ought to hunt Dylan 'Gnashers' Hartley down with an elephant rifle on Saturday and walk away whistling.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 10, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Missed most of the games at the weekend. I did see most of Ireland and am glad Tom Court came on. He at least provided a little stability at the scrum. Ireland just can't persist with players like Reddan, Buckley, Mick O' Driscoll (who was not the worst) and Healy (though we have no choice there).


 
They can with the right refs.


----------



## mattie (Nov 10, 2010)

bendeus said:


> And your point is, caller? That just because Moody has been known to be a dirty, cheating fecker we shouldn't censure another dirty, cheating fecker? In that case the crims ought to hunt Dylan 'Gnashers' Hartley down with an elephant rifle on Saturday and walk away whistling.



Where has this idea that Moody's dirty come from?  He's a fucking lunatic, but he's more likely to hurt himself than anyone else.  That's fearless (and a bit mental, to be honest), not dirty.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 10, 2010)

mattie said:


> Where has this idea that Moody's dirty come from?  He's a fucking lunatic, but he's more likely to hurt himself than anyone else.  That's fearless (and a bit mental, to be honest), not dirty.


 
Fair point. I was referring more to Gabi's line of 'logic' than my own opinion of the player.


----------



## mattie (Nov 10, 2010)

Still tickets for England vs the crims, should anyone be interested - I actually think it might make for an exciting game, something I didn't think would be the case a few months back.  

In saying that, I've just paid 73 bones for a middling seat behind one goal for the NZ Test, no fucking wonder there's some unsold.  Christ knows where the cheap seats are.  In the car park?


----------



## mattie (Nov 10, 2010)

Hmmm.  Professional rugby on astroturf.  That'll be interesting at scrum-time, although they reckon there'll be no carpet burns (assume it's water-based and not sand then).

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2010-11/rugby/story/128847.html


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 10, 2010)

mattie said:


> Mealamu banned for 4 weeks.
> 
> For those who weren't aware, he nutted a prone Lewis Moody when entering a ruck.  That's the Lewis Moody who has just recovered from cranial damage.
> 
> ...


Did you hear the shit they came out with about him not being a dirty player?

"He is not a dirty player, he never has been. This is a case we'll go to the death on," All Blacks assistant coach Steve Hansen told the team's website. "Everyone knows it's not in his nature to do that and everyone knows if Kevvy says he didn't do it, he didn't do it."

All Blacks head coach Graham Henry also defended his player at the time, saying: "He's been cited for striking the head.
"It surprises me. He's probably the cleanest player in the world, isn't he? It was purely accidental as far as I know."


----------



## Infidel Castro (Nov 11, 2010)

bendeus said:


> They bummed us  because Paul James was at tighthead, and he ain't no tighthead. That said, they're *supposedly* improved. Absolutely gash from where I was lounging.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bendy, I do think Shanks performed well with Bish in some regards, and i also believe he carried VERY well.  I'd still rather see a different dynamic though - namely Hook plus Bish.  Bish is so good defensively and has a little more skill/guile than Shanks.  He is also going to be around for about 5-7yrs which Shanks ain't.  It's just a preference.

I was gutted about Hovis though.  You hit the nail on the head re Phillips coming in as a result of that - it's the only reason i can see him being in the starting line-up (or at least other than having good form v SA).  

Very glad Byrne is back, though he's got to start backing himself with a decent performance or two soon.  

North has indeed grabbed a starting spot, but I do feel a little sorry for Prydie now.  It appears Gats has him in for the Fiji match, or else he just pities him. not a good place to be.

I'm looking forward to this match a whole lot more now the team has been shuffled about, though I really, really do think we'll miss Hovis.


----------



## junglevip (Nov 11, 2010)

I for one am glad that the cynical, cheating swine got the ban. Its about time someone had the decency to treat nz players like everyone else.  I almost want englnad to win.

Wales by 8


----------



## junglevip (Nov 11, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> Bendy, I do think Shanks performed well with Bish in some regards, and i also believe he carried VERY well.  I'd still rather see a different dynamic though - namely Hook plus Bish.  Bish is so good defensively and has a little more skill/guile than Shanks.  He is also going to be around for about 5-7yrs which Shanks ain't.  It's just a preference.
> 
> I was gutted about Hovis though.  You hit the nail on the head re Phillips coming in as a result of that - it's the only reason i can see him being in the starting line-up (or at least other than having good form v SA).
> 
> ...


 
Im not 100% with Bernie.  I has made some rooky mistakes and that an balance put him level with scrabble.  I'd like Chekaj at fullback and would wanted Rees at nine but Phillips could rough the back row a bit early doors


----------



## flypanam (Nov 11, 2010)

bendeus said:


> They can with the right refs.



Nigel Owens is a god amoungst mortals

The Samoan team for the Ireland game:

P Williams (Sale), D Lemi (Wasps), G Pisi (Taranaki), S Mapusua (London Irish), A Tuilagi (Leicester), T Lavea (Clermont) K Fotualii (Canterbury), S Taulafo (Wasps), M Schwalger (Taranaki, capt), A Perenise (Hawkes Bay), F Lavea Levi (Newcastle), K Thompsen (Southland), O Trevarinus (Malie, Samoa), M Salavea (Narbonne), G Stowers (London Irish). Replacements: T Paulo (Clermont), S Lemalu (Counties Manukau), I Tekori (Castres), A Aiono (Leulumoega, Samoa), J Poluleuligaga (Exeter), G Williams (Clermont), J Helleur (Auckland).


----------



## junglevip (Nov 11, 2010)

junglevip said:


> Bish is so good defensively and has a little more skill/guile than Shanks. He is also going to be around for about 5-7yrs which Shanks ain't. It's just a preference.



I dunno about Bish.  I think he is a very good player but Shanks is a ruthless desicion maker and has given many a try scoring pass.  I like them both.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 11, 2010)

junglevip said:


> Im not 100% with Bernie.  I has made some rooky mistakes and that an balance put him level with scrabble.  I'd like Chekaj at fullback and would wanted Rees at nine but Phillips could rough the back row a bit early doors


 
Seriously, mate. Have you seen Checkout in any of the recent ML games? His early form disappeared in a puff of smoke. He's shit out under the high ball on many occasions, cost the Blues tries on a number, and the game (vs. the Turks) on one. I'd fucking shit meself seeing him face the meat eaters. They'd launch high ball after high ball and eat him right up. 

Agreed about Byrne's form, mind. He isn't the player he was in 08/09


----------



## bendeus (Nov 11, 2010)

junglevip said:


> I dunno about Bish.  I think he is a very good player but Shanks is a ruthless desicion maker and has given many a try scoring pass.  I like them both.


 
Absolutely agree. Shanks makes things happen at 13. Bish defends well. No contest.


----------



## junglevip (Nov 11, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Seriously, mate. Have you seen Checkout in any of the recent ML games? His early form disappeared in a puff of smoke. He's shit out under the high ball on many occasions, cost the Blues tries on a number, and the game (vs. the Turks) on one. I'd fucking shit meself seeing him face the meat eaters. They'd launch high ball after high ball and eat him right up.
> 
> Agreed about Byrne's form, mind. He isn't the player he was in 08/09


 
Yeah I know what you mean, its a good point.  But I'd risk him cos I think Lee's has done a few daft things but CJ's got the one thing you cant defend; gas.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 11, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Nigel Owens is a god amoungst mortals
> 
> The Samoan team for the Ireland game:
> 
> P Williams (Sale), D Lemi (Wasps), G Pisi (Taranaki), S Mapusua (London Irish), A Tuilagi (Leicester), T Lavea (Clermont) K Fotualii (Canterbury), S Taulafo (Wasps), M Schwalger (Taranaki, capt), A Perenise (Hawkes Bay), F Lavea Levi (Newcastle), K Thompsen (Southland), O Trevarinus (Malie, Samoa), M Salavea (Narbonne), G Stowers (London Irish). Replacements: T Paulo (Clermont), S Lemalu (Counties Manukau), I Tekori (Castres), A Aiono (Leulumoega, Samoa), J Poluleuligaga (Exeter), G Williams (Clermont), J Helleur (Auckland).


that's a strong team, we could be in for a shock...


----------



## bendeus (Nov 11, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> that's a strong team, we could be in for a shock...


 
 Never with Nige O' at the helm


----------



## junglevip (Nov 12, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Nigel Owens is a god amoungst mortals
> 
> The Samoan team for the Ireland game:
> 
> P Williams (Sale), D Lemi (Wasps), G Pisi (Taranaki), S Mapusua (London Irish), A Tuilagi (Leicester), T Lavea (Clermont) K Fotualii (Canterbury), S Taulafo (Wasps), M Schwalger (Taranaki, capt), A Perenise (Hawkes Bay), F Lavea Levi (Newcastle), K Thompsen (Southland), O Trevarinus (Malie, Samoa), M Salavea (Narbonne), G Stowers (London Irish). Replacements: T Paulo (Clermont), S Lemalu (Counties Manukau), I Tekori (Castres), A Aiono (Leulumoega, Samoa), J Poluleuligaga (Exeter), G Williams (Clermont), J Helleur (Auckland).


 
I dont know too much abouth indiviual players but the quality of the teams that that they play for seems very high.  I think that the Irish will be better organised and come through but I expect some Samoa break aways.  The Irish have Tommy Bowe a match winner if ever the was one; Brian usually has a good game.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 12, 2010)

junglevip said:


> I dont know too much abouth indiviual players but the quality of the teams that that they play for seems very high.  I think that the Irish will be better organised and come through but I expect some Samoa break aways.  The Irish have Tommy Bowe a match winner if ever the was one; Brian usually has a good game.



I think that is a quality Samoa side. The fact that Gavin Williams has only made their bench is testament to that. I think we'll win. But I worry about the performance. yes we were bloody awful against the Saffa's but playing the expansive game on a drier day would have paid off. I want Ireland to persist with a high tempo wide game. I think we may be picking and driveing and O'gara kicking to the corners tomorrow. One step forward . A munster step back.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 12, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Never with Nige O' at the helm



Welshman of the century!


----------



## bendeus (Nov 12, 2010)

Tim Cymru: *Lee Byrne (Ospreys); George North (Scarlets)**, Tom Shanklin (Blues), James Hook (Ospreys)*, Shane Williams (Ospreys); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Ospreys); Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Matthew Rees (Scarlets, capt), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Blues), Dan Lydiate (Dragons),* Martyn Williams (Blues)*, Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys).
Replacements: Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Paul James (Ospreys), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Andy Powell (London Wasps), Richie Rees (Blues), Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), Chris Czekaj (Blues). 

New selections/positional changes bolded. IMO that's the strongest backline we can field at present and I'm excited to see how the Hook/Shanks partnership goes, as well as the strike running that North can bring into the mix. Front five selects itself, 7 selects himself, but very surprised to see JT continue at 8. He made a grand total of 1 yard off something like 10 carries against the Aussies, something that is unacceptable for a ball carrier. Weird, also, that two people able to do a better job in that position - Mongo and Ryan - are benched. Ah well, only one selection off my first choice XV.


----------



## mattie (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm really looking forward to tomorrow, bit pissed of the Wales, Ireland and England matches are all 14:30 KO.

We get to see the France or Scotland matches afterwards though.  I'll probably watch the Scotland-NZ match with one hand ready cover my eyes.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Nov 12, 2010)

junglevip said:


> Yeah I know what you mean, its a good point.  But I'd risk him cos I think Lee's has done a few daft things but CJ's got the one thing you cant defend; gas.



Chris Czekaj has gas?  What the fuck?!  He has NOT got gas.  He's Daf James crossed with Gareth Thomas (and I pray that he achieves half as much as those pair because he'll have done well).  I just don't know what Czekaj is, really.  He's a lump, he's strong, he's not really a winger...I still think full-back might be a long-term option, but like Bendy says, he's had some howlers lately.



bendeus said:


> Tim Cymru: *Lee Byrne (Ospreys); George North (Scarlets)**, Tom Shanklin (Blues), James Hook (Ospreys)*, Shane Williams (Ospreys); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Ospreys); Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Matthew Rees (Scarlets, capt), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Blues), Dan Lydiate (Dragons),* Martyn Williams (Blues)*, Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys).
> Replacements: Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Paul James (Ospreys), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Andy Powell (London Wasps), Richie Rees (Blues), Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), Chris Czekaj (Blues).
> 
> New selections/positional changes bolded. IMO that's the strongest backline we can field at present and I'm excited to see how the Hook/Shanks partnership goes, as well as the strike running that North can bring into the mix. Front five selects itself, 7 selects himself, but very surprised to see JT continue at 8. He made a grand total of 1 yard off something like 10 carries against the Aussies, something that is unacceptable for a ball carrier. Weird, also, that two people able to do a better job in that position - Mongo and Ryan - are benched. Ah well, only one selection off my first choice XV.



I'm keen to see what this team will do.  Obviously Phillips will be taking up the ball-carrying...

I'm happy with Shanks (how could I not be - he's a legend) but I still prefer Bish's consistency and defence, and I still believe he offeres more in attack in the contact-avoidance sense, which is why I want to see him with Hook, who should be putting the OC in space.

Anyway, I'm cooking in my own oils about this one.  Got mates coming down from Liverpool and Derby, so all the old guard are getting back together.  Class.  Black Lion, Llandaf, 1pm. That really is an invite.  Victoria Park 10-10:30am approx for a couple of hours fannying about with a rugby ball too.  Braziliant.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 13, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> Chris Czekaj has gas?  What the fuck?!  He has NOT got gas.



Quite. He is slow for someone in his position. He is also big. He should respect the former and capitalise on the latter, pin his ears back, and realise that kinetic momentum can get you places if you're a lump. For whatever reason, he fails to do this, and does a weird little shuffle just before contact. All this does is reduce the momentum he takes into the tackle,  and line him up nicely, through process of triangulation, for the tackler. He did this before the broken leg, and he still does it. He should learn from multigenerational, successful English wingers that, if you're big, you should plough through rather than try the pretty stuff.



> Class.  Black Lion, Llandaf, 1pm. That really is an invite.  Victoria Park 10-10:30am approx for a couple of hours fannying about with a rugby ball too.  Braziliant.


 
Deffo up for meeting for a pint/game at some point. Tomorrow is a stretch, a bit of advance planning and I'm there. Who've the Blues got over Xmas?


----------



## The Boy (Nov 13, 2010)

France tea fo the game against Fiji:

15 Jerome Porical, 14 Julien Arias, 13 David Marty, 12 Fabrice Estebanez, 11 Maxime Medard, 10 Damien Traille, 9 Dimitri Yachvili, 8 Imanol Harinordoquy (captain), 7 Alexandre Lapandry, 6 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 5 Jerome Thion, 4 Romain Millo-Chluski, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 1 Jerome Schuster

 16 Benjamin Noirot, 17 Thomas Domingo, 18 Julien Pierre, 19 Sebastien Chabal, 20 Morgan Parra, 21 David Skrela, 22 Alexis Palisson, 23 Nicolas Mas.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 13, 2010)

Gethin out. ANOTHER training injury. What the fuck is Gatland doing to them, seriously? Paul James to start, Yapp to the bench. Like for like in the scrummaging department, but so much less in open play, esp. at the breakdown.


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Nov 13, 2010)

Anyone got a good feed for the England game??


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 13, 2010)

what a try, were all over the aussies!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 13, 2010)

that was fucking amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 13, 2010)

shit, gonna be a tense finish!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 13, 2010)

Hopefully first of many aussie ass kickings by us over this winter.  Great to watch.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 13, 2010)

I think the welsh boyos will be keeping quiet about refs for a long time.


----------



## 1927 (Nov 14, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> I think the welsh boyos will be keeping quiet about refs for a long time.


 
???


----------



## mattie (Nov 14, 2010)

I am a very happy boy.

The only downside was the Scotland 'match', about as painful as I thought it would be.  So bad I left the pub at half-time to meet the missus and her mates.  Yes, shopping and All-Bar-One was preferable to that car-crash.


----------



## gabi (Nov 14, 2010)

England looked the business. Finally playing fast southern hem style rugby. Of the sort derided by one of your coaches before these games.


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 14, 2010)

1927 said:


> ???


 
I'm talking about Walsh's display - it will probably be a long time before he gets to ref again.


----------



## gabi (Nov 14, 2010)

Yeh they said that about barnes after the semi in Cardiff two years ago. He reffed again very soon after. Even had the cheek to let him ref another all black game. 

What did Walsh fuck up? Didn't see the game.


----------



## mattie (Nov 14, 2010)

Matt Banahan withdrawn from today's Bath squad on Johno's request - which we lost by 2 points.  Ta Johno. 

Reckon we might see him at 13 next weekend, forming an all-Bath centre pairing.  Tindall looked like he took a hit, but if he's fit he has to start after yesterday's performance - Banahan would make some impact player (literally) late in the game.

Again, superb performance from England - 1 through 15.  Palmer had a quietly excellent game, Lawes a real athlete and only 21.  I was getting a bit worried by weaknesses in the second row, hugely reassured by those two yesterday - and that sadly probably spells the end for Borthwick at this level.  The backs outshone the crims', which is the second highest compliment I can pay.  

Excellent.


----------



## gabi (Nov 15, 2010)

i do think the english media got a bit over-hyped on the quality of this aussie side. 

they only JUST beat the all blacks in hong kong. NZ were all over them for most of the match to the point where henry felt comfortable enough to replace carter with donald (whose mistake in not putting the ball out at the end led to o'connors winning try)


----------



## mattie (Nov 15, 2010)

Dallaglio (amongst others) did point out that NZ are some distance clear of other teams (there's just no weak point in the team, cover in a few positions excepted), but argued that the shackle-draggers are the best of the chasing pack and make a decent team.  Evidence would suggest that's a fair enough comment.

I'd agree, even with a joke of a scrumming front row they have superb loose forwards and an outstanding (and frighteningly young) set of backs.  They can also call on players of the quality of Larkham as and when needed.  As others on this thread have mentioned, if they could find two decent props (who can scrum as well as run) they'd be in a very good position.

What was so pleasing was England beat them in open play, not simply in the tight.  There was some battering ram stuff, but many clean line breaks.  I had almost given up hope of seeing those from the home side at Twickenham.


----------



## mattie (Nov 15, 2010)

Two saffas caught on the drugs (allegedly, pending 'b' sample retesting).

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_6509670,00.html

So that's why they're so big.

Also, 'Chiliboy'


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Nov 15, 2010)

Methylhexaneamine has been showing up a lot very recently, with the athletes caught almost all specialising in speed/power events. There was a rash of positives around the time of the Commonwealth Games. An unusual rash of positives in fact, because normally in competition testing catches very few dopers as compared to out of competition testing.

Rugby has a very poor anti-doping programme.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Nov 15, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Quite. He is slow for someone in his position. He is also big. He should respect the former and capitalise on the latter, pin his ears back, and realise that kinetic momentum can get you places if you're a lump. For whatever reason, he fails to do this, and does a weird little shuffle just before contact. All this does is reduce the momentum he takes into the tackle,  and line him up nicely, through process of triangulation, for the tackler. He did this before the broken leg, and he still does it. He should learn from multigenerational, successful English wingers that, if you're big, you should plough through rather than try the pretty stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Deffo up for meeting for a pint/game at some point. Tomorrow is a stretch, a bit of advance planning and I'm there. Who've the Blues got over Xmas?


 
I know we've got the O's in January .  Saying that, I'll be there with the missus and the two young lads.  Truth be told, it'll be the first time I'll have been there in about 1.5yrs.  I went to watch a friendly when we moved and hated the new place.  I'd take the Arms anytime.  Dislike as well as skintness did for me.  Shifts as well like.  Got out of the habit of even bothering to go down.  Very bad.

We'll have to get something sorted though, some gathering of minds, like.  1927 would be up for it I'm sure.  Even badlands like.  

Got to say, I am still recovering from that loss on the weekend.  I can't believe it happened again.  We were a million times more creative than against Aus (which calls me to question why we were so very poor in the attacking dept v Aus - no creative open-side?  No creative midfielder?  Conservative orders?).  Some papers said that S Africa played poorly in the first half, but by fuck it was only because we scared them into playing poorly.  It's only the team's mental block that stopped us doing more damage.  We blew it.  Shanks had a cracker up until he met Mongo's noggin with his own.  Made all the wrong choices after that.  Gutted for him.  North was class.  Ickle Shane was immense before going off - a big miss.  Powell played very well and I feel compelled to swallow some humble pie in that regard - he played a stormer.  Phillips also had the game we hoped for.  

Anywauy, I'm very down about the loss knowing that we had about 50 min of that match. maybe even 60 min.  I have no doubts that were we to play against these guys week-in-week-out and get used to closing games out, we'd start winning regularly.  I suppose others could say the same (England are beginning to hot up - can't wait for the first-up game in the 6N this season).  We're a good team threatening to be very good.  Problem there though is that we're struggling to show how good we can be at 6N level, let alone against the 3N teams every autumn.  Every November we start out a bit rusty but get quite close to a win.  next match we do better again, but don't win.  By the fourth match (not counting the third as it's normally developmental), we're on our arses mentally, knowing once again that we are good enough but not clever enough or familiar with winning to actually pull the wins out of the bag.  It's that final part of the jigsaw that our lads struggle to put into place.  They're wishing a big win to come but can only themselves be held accountable for ultimately losing.  It's become a habit (not just losing, but almost winning - very different).  I'm mightily fucked off at the whole affair.  We threw the game away on Saturday, and also didn't embrace the idea of beating the Aussies (that's my take on it anyway, given the gameplan - the only plan i could see in place was one that saw us hang on in there and HOPE for a chance to win).  I'd give the first-teamers a week off now to consider how fucking lame these near-hits are, rest up and go hammer-and-tongs against NZ.  

Good to see young North playing with a smile on his face as well.  Wales squad take note!  happy face = happy feet.

I'm well fucked off.

(the above post is quite disjointed - I've got ideas and thoughts flying around but I'm in work and unable to formulate them proper-like).


----------



## starfish (Nov 15, 2010)

mattie said:


> II'll probably watch the Scotland-NZ match with one hand ready cover my eyes.



I did for the last 77 minutes. We made the big mistake of scoring early & upsetting them. Cant think of a more inept display.


----------



## mattie (Nov 16, 2010)

starfish said:


> I did for the last 77 minutes. We made the big mistake of scoring early & upsetting them. Cant think of a more inept display.


 
NZ are a superb team, but Scotland were just blown away - every try there were two or three support runners and not one Scottish defender in sight.

Hats off to McCaw though, he tried to help, at one point he was even rucking for Scotland.

At least, he entered the ruck on-side for a Scotsman.  How he wasn't yellow-carded simply for the complete contempt shown to the laws is beyond me.  Push boundaries, fine, but that's just an insult.


----------



## mattie (Nov 16, 2010)

Not good news re ickle, apparently out for 3 months which makes his participation the 6N touch-and-go.

This should be good news for Englishmen everywhere, but I don't think there's a fan alive who wouldn't pay good money to see the little fella jink.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2010)

mattie said:


> Not good news re ickle, apparently out for 3 months which makes his participation the 6N touch-and-go.
> 
> This should be good news for Englishmen everywhere, but I don't think there's a fan alive who wouldn't pay good money to see the little fella jink.


 


May mean we have to adapt the 'chuck it to Shane' tactic that has reaped so much success over the last few years.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> I know we've got the O's in January .  Saying that, I'll be there with the missus and the two young lads.  Truth be told, it'll be the first time I'll have been there in about 1.5yrs.  I went to watch a friendly when we moved and hated the new place.  I'd take the Arms anytime.  Dislike as well as skintness did for me.  Shifts as well like.  Got out of the habit of even bothering to go down.  Very bad.
> 
> We'll have to get something sorted though, some gathering of minds, like.  1927 would be up for it I'm sure.  Even badlands like.



Aye. We'll work out summat.



> Got to say, I am still recovering from that loss on the weekend.  I can't believe it happened again.



I'm fucking furious. As we went into half time, I said to my co-watchers, "we always concede in the third quarter against the SH teams. We've got to make sure we match them early doors here, or we could lose." Then what happened? It's purely psychological, it really is.


> We were a million times more creative than against Aus (which calls me to question why we were so very poor in the attacking dept v Aus - no creative open-side?  No creative midfielder?  Conservative orders?).  Some papers said that S Africa played poorly in the first half, but by fuck it was only because we scared them into playing poorly.  It's only the team's mental block that stopped us doing more damage.



Agreed. Wellies had a good game, and the presence of a big strike runner (North) able to come looking for work, hit the gainline and retain/recycle possession makes a big difference to the way teams line up against us. Hook adds guile as well, though he does seem to always want to take it up rather than pass the bloody thing. Shanks didn't have his best game - two overlaps buthered - one with the tryline begging.



> Powell played very well and I feel compelled to swallow some humble pie in that regard - he played a stormer.  Phillips also had the game we hoped for.



And herein lies the rub. Four things robbed us of victory on Saturday. One of these - injuries - was totally out of our hands. We finished the game without Shane, Henson, Roberts and Gethin Jenkins. All lions, all would have started. That's a quarter of our ist XV. The second is more intangible. It's the stuff that happens in our collective brains, especially against SH sides. We just don't fucking back ourselves. In terms of skills, in terms of fitness, and even now in terms of physicality, we're there or thereabouts. But the final 10% (or whatever) that exists upstairs is missing. England wouldn't have butchered that from that position. They'd have gone on and won, because the SH holds no fear for them. They don't have the inferiority complex. The third is something we very much could have done something about, and that's our substitutions. No a single one of them made any positive impact at all. Paul James was scrummaging well, ensuring parity in that aspect of the setpiece. Why, then, would you want to bring Yapp on? Ditto Deiniol, and, even more crazily, taking Mongo, who was having one of his battering ram games in a Wales shirt - constantly breaking the gainline, and constantly tying in defenders - off leaving the powderpuff JT on the pitch. Also think that Bish should have come on for Shanks after that blow to the head. All of that is Gatland's fault, and he should hold the blame to some degree.

The fourth was Walsh. I'm going to remain calm here, and I'm not going to go off on one, but Gatland's recent words about the way smaller sides are reffed against bigger sides are resonating round my head right now. He doesn't imply that there is cheating or corruption, but more that there is an implicit expectation in the mind of the official about who is going to win, and, as a result, and unconscious bias towards making sure that happens. His 20 minutes of cyclopean idiocy were, perhaps unsurprisingly, the 20 minutes in which Wales conceded nearly all of the points. Starting with the awarding of a scrum after time had elapsed at the end of the first half, which led to 3 Bok points, to the inexcusable failure to notice that Habana had not only taken JT out in the air, but that he then lay all over the ball preventing release, which led to their first try. The subsequent phases of play were punctuated by the Bokke going in at the side, living offside, and diving over the top. Mysteriously, this wasn't punished. Any transgression on our part was leaped upon, though. Of particular interest was the amount of time he played advantage for in the leadup to their second try. They had a couple of minutes in which we defended resolutely. During that time they broke the gainline twice. Surely that should have been that, and when we turned them over, that should have stood.

Finally, the last play of the game. I should add that Richie Rees is a fucking nincompoop, and that idiocy like that is the reason that Phillips is preferred. When that ball was kicked into touch, it was kicked into touch by a player coming round the side of the ruck. It was also the fourth consecutive penalty offence by the defending side in the red zone, but one that didn't merit a yellow card, evidently. 

Refereeing like that is inexcusable at this level, and Walsh had a significant impact onh the result.



> Anywauy, I'm very down about the loss knowing that we had about 50 min of that match. maybe even 60 min.  I have no doubts that were we to play against these guys week-in-week-out and get used to closing games out, we'd start winning regularly.  I suppose others could say the same (England are beginning to hot up - can't wait for the first-up game in the 6N this season).  We're a good team threatening to be very good.  Problem there though is that we're struggling to show how good we can be at 6N level, let alone against the 3N teams every autumn.



And yet our coaching team all get bumper new four-year contracts. I think we need to be holding them under a bit more scrutiny, myself. The whole camp stinks of complacency and an acceptance of mediocrity. This isn't acceptable with one of the best generations of players our country has ever produced.


> I'm mightily fucked off at the whole affair.



You and me both, mate.



> We threw the game away on Saturday, and also didn't embrace the idea of beating the Aussies (that's my take on it anyway, given the gameplan - the only plan i could see in place was one that saw us hang on in there and HOPE for a chance to win)


. 

Agreed, and shit reffing aside, the coaching staff have to take the rap for some or most of this.


----------



## gabi (Nov 16, 2010)

Walsh got a good review in the guardian's report


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2010)

gabi said:


> Walsh got a good review in the guardian's report


 
S'alright, Gabi, you don't need to defend him; your kinsfolk have exiled him.

Walsh was gash. Guardian rugby reporting of anything bar England's games is also gash. I'd be surprised if they even bothered sending a journo.


----------



## mattie (Nov 16, 2010)

I love my missus.  She set the Playstation to record the taff/saff game, I'll be watching that later.  

She also taped the highlights for both England games, couldn't bring myself to watch the NZ highlights last week as I thought we blew a very good opportunity to turn them over.  I'll be interested to watch the TV official view of the two try attempts - from where I was at Twickenham, and from what I saw on the big screen, one was as good a shout as the other, and if those went the other way that would have put England in front (not that it would necessarily have stayed that way, just in case anyone thinks I've turned into a Man U fan).  I'll keep an ear open for what the ref asks of the official upstairs - still rankles that he asked the tougher question during the WC final.  NZ were the better team for the bulk of the game though, especially in the overlaps and space they created and utilised, but would have loved to have had a tight finale.  A very encouraging performance from England, and most importantly getting the backs into the game where they began to hurt both NZ and Oz.

Regarding the Wales game, I already know Walsh will be terrible.  Did he have any arguments or indulge in sanctimonious lecturing with anyone?  Another endearing trait.


----------



## gabi (Nov 16, 2010)

bendeus said:


> S'alright, Gabi, you don't need to defend him; your kinsfolk have exiled him.
> 
> Walsh was gash. Guardian rugby reporting of anything bar England's games is also gash. I'd be surprised if they even bothered sending a journo.


 
I've not seen any criticism of Walsh's performance in any other media either.

Wales are a bit crap at rugby. Deal with it.


----------



## mattie (Nov 16, 2010)

gabi said:


> I've not seen any criticism of Walsh's performance in any other media either.
> 
> Wales are a bit crap at rugby. Deal with it.



*hides under table*


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2010)

gabi said:


> I've not seen any criticism of Walsh's performance in any other media either.
> 
> Wales are a bit crap at rugby. Deal with it.


 
The media have a culture of silence around poor officiating in rugby. This ranges from printed papers to commentators. There is a rationale, I suppose; nobody wants to experience the hysteria that's regularly seen on the football pitch around official decisions.

If you wanted to form your own opinion, why not go for a primary source like watching the bloody match rather than scouring the English press for stuff that routinely isn't written about anyway. I can offer some friendly pointers, such as pointing out the exact shit decisions you need to watch out for, what they resulted in, and when they happened.

We're a bit crap at rugby, yes, but on the evidence I've seen over the last week or so, we're only marginally crapper than the two tri nations teams we've just played. A referee's whistle crapper in one of them. Go figure.


----------



## mattie (Nov 16, 2010)

bendeus said:


> The media have a culture of silence around poor officiating in rugby. This ranges from printed papers to commentators. There is a rationale, I suppose; nobody wants to experience the hysteria that's regularly seen on the football pitch around official decisions.
> 
> If you wanted to form your own opinion, why not go for a primary source like watching the bloody match rather than scouring the English press for stuff that routinely isn't written about anyway.* I can offer some friendly pointers, such as pointing out the exact shit decisions you need to watch out for, what they resulted in, and when they happened*.
> 
> We're a bit crap at rugby, yes, but on the evidence I've seen over the last week or so, we're only marginally crapper than the two tri nations teams we've just played. A referee's whistle crapper in one of them. Go figure.


 
Ignore the ball and just watch McCaw, I'd give it 30 seconds before he isn't penalised for some infringement or other.

I've given up complaining about poor reffing at scrums, it seems to be a lottery at present.


----------



## mattie (Nov 16, 2010)

Oz dirt-trackers vs Munster tonight.

Myp2p reckon they've got a stream:
http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=95855&part=sports


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 16, 2010)

bendeus, honestly, do you think that any decisions went Wales way at all in that match?. I know you wear red-tinted spectacles but seriously, come on.


----------



## mattie (Nov 16, 2010)

England have released Tim Payne back to Wasps.

There's just too much good news for me to handle at the moment.


----------



## mattie (Nov 17, 2010)

Bananaman is indeed starting at 13 against Samoa.  

He makes Sonny Bill Williams look small.  A Bath centre pairing, but not exactly De Glanville/Guscott Mk2.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 18, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> bendeus, honestly, do you think that any decisions went Wales way at all in that match?. I know you wear red-tinted spectacles but seriously, come on.


 
Yeah, I do, sleater. I've pointed out cardinal errors in Walsh's game that cost Wales dearly, but am happy for you to put me right in terms of specifics rather than 'Walsh was the Welsh 16th man!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!one' - type generalisations. He's a fucking dreadful ref, who, I would imagine, made some mistakes that favoured Wales over the course of the 80 minutes, but the ones that counted, including the sustained period of cyclopean shitness from about 38 to about 60 minutes, signally affected the course and the result of the game.

As I say - point out the errors that favoured Wales, and we can go from there.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Nov 18, 2010)

As an aside, how much are the ABs going to dick the Irish by on the weekend?  I'd be mighty scared if I was Irish right now.  They need to find a few gears to even cope.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 18, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Yeah, I do, sleater. I've pointed out cardinal errors in Walsh's game that cost Wales dearly, but am happy for you to put me right in terms of specifics rather than 'Walsh was the Welsh 16th man!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!one' - type generalisations. He's a fucking dreadful ref, who, I would imagine, made some mistakes that favoured Wales over the course of the 80 minutes, but the ones that counted, including the sustained period of cyclopean shitness from about 38 to about 60 minutes, signally affected the course and the result of the game.
> 
> As I say - point out the errors that favoured Wales, and we can go from there.


Blocking on the first try for starters.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 18, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> As an aside, how much are the ABs going to dick the Irish by on the weekend?  I'd be mighty scared if I was Irish right now.  They need to find a few gears to even cope.



20 to 30 pts at least, but hope springs eternal.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 18, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> 20 to 30 pts at least, but hope springs eternal.


 
Big game for Sexton

Ireland: R Kearney, T Bowe, B O'Driscoll (capt), G D'Arcy, L Fitzgerald; J Sexton, E Reddan; C Healy, R Best, T Court; D O'Callaghan, M O'Driscoll; S Ferris, D Wallace, J Heaslip.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 18, 2010)

We're going to get dicked ffs.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Big game for Sexton
> 
> Ireland: R Kearney, T Bowe, B O'Driscoll (capt), G D'Arcy, L Fitzgerald; J Sexton, E Reddan; C Healy, R Best, T Court; D O'Callaghan, M O'Driscoll; S Ferris, D Wallace, J Heaslip.


 
Dunno what the problem is. That's practically a first choice XV. Weren't you lot good quite recently?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Blocking on the first try for starters.


 
Have a look again:


The ball is in North's hands, and the defender beaten, before Shanks makes contact with him (about 0:48). The defender was already fully committed to tackling Shanks, and the fact that Shanks made contact at the end is immaterial to whether or not North would have scored. That's not blocking, that's a good dummy run.


----------



## mattie (Nov 19, 2010)

I think you're being a bit cheeky there Bendy, the view at 0.48 makes it look like he's in-line with Shanklin but he's actually behind him - it's just about the worst view you could pick.  

The view at 10 seconds onwards illustrates that North looped behind Shanklin and when North received the ball Shanklin was between North and a tackler (De Villiers).  That, by definition, is blocking.  So a pat on the head to Shanks for Southern-Hemisphering a Southern-Hemisphere team.  As I think you're all sick of hearing from me, it ain't a penalty if the ref doesn't blow his whistle, laws be damned.

I think it's a fair enough argument, seen 'em given, seen 'em not - De Villiers was lining up Shanklin but would have had a direct line at North had Shanklin not been there.

One one hand I'd have hated to see a blocking penalty given as I think enterprise should be rewarded, but I'd have loved to have heard the rants if the try had been chalked off......


----------



## mattie (Nov 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Dunno what the problem is. That's practically a first choice XV. Weren't you lot good quite recently?



Better than other abject NH teams, at any road.


----------



## mattie (Nov 19, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> I know we've got the O's in January .  Saying that, I'll be there with the missus and the two young lads.  Truth be told, it'll be the first time I'll have been there in about 1.5yrs.  I went to watch a friendly when we moved and hated the new place.  I'd take the Arms anytime.  Dislike as well as skintness did for me.  Shifts as well like.  Got out of the habit of even bothering to go down.  Very bad.
> 
> We'll have to get something sorted though, some gathering of minds, like.  1927 would be up for it I'm sure.  Even badlands like.
> 
> ...


 
A man not given to lack of confidence agrees almost exactly with your thoughts, btw:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2010/11/18/jeremy-guscott-attacks-wales-over-lack-of-mental-toughness-91466-27671460/?

I will say that Wales should never try to close out a game by trying to become England of circa 2003.  Keep doing whatever it is that put you in the lead, he says somewhat obviously and sanctimoniously.


----------



## mattie (Nov 19, 2010)

Oh, and just for a laugh, the latest Bath bulletin board rumour is that we've spoken to James Hook.  Who 'we' is/are, and where 'we' spoke to him- perhaps to ask for his autograph at Leigh Delamere - is not reported.

Less fictionally, we've been in contact with Mark Chisholm and Dave Attwood to fix our second row problems next year - big stampy bitey punchy Dan retires, Lobbe and VDG's contracts expire, and the poor sod Hobson's arm is looking like it might be a long-term problem.  Attwood and Chisholm would do very nicely thank you very much, Attwood is a spikey fucker and Chisholm a real athlete, and both young enough to be long-term players.

eta:  This is a Bristolian response to one of the rumours:


> England local Dave Attwood today gave notice that he is prepared to renounce his status as a Bristolian when it emerged that he was considering an approach from the Devil’s Own Club, B**h.
> 
> Attwood, who had already made the extremely strange decision to move up the M5 to play his rugby in Gloucester, has been linked with the Satanic Shower who are now able to compromise almost anyone’s morals through the cash of multi millionaire and self hating Bristolian Bruce Craig.
> 
> ...





Although they're probably right about Stuart Barnes.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 19, 2010)

Hook's going to USAP. Byrne to Clermont. Rumour has it that Shane will be cashing in after the RWC as well. Henson, Byrne, Hook and Ickle (as well as, probably, Holah) in one season is going to require some serious rebuilding for the Os.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> t I'd have loved to have heard the rants if the try had been chalked off......


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Dunno what the problem is. That's practically a first choice XV. Weren't you lot good quite recently?


 
We are missing a few players, POC makes a huge difference to the scrum, TOL is a different class than Reddan, Flannery is a good hooker etc. Wallace hasn't had a good game for a while now.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 20, 2010)

Why write reams of impassioned verbiage when a good old facepalm will do 

Taxi for:

Gatland, McBryde, *Howley*, R. Jones. *J. Thomas*, *Huw Bennett*, Andrew Bishop (IC take note), Richie Rees. None are capable of cutting the mustard at international level any more. Some never were. My partcicular prize turkeys in bold.

Fucking unutterably awful. Make no bones, this is now a crisis. I actually don't think we have anything to lose by replacing the coaching team; it can't get much worse, can it?

Some stuff astonished me: How JT stayed on for 80 (and how he's started the last god knows how many tests). Ditto Bennett. How our lineout was shit against a side not renowned for their lines out. Why we tried to play basketball against the masters. Why our kicking game was so poor. Why our work at the breakdown was so woeful. Why our forwards were so disjointed and disorganised. Why Faletau stayed on the bench when the incumbent 8 was getting smashed back in contact, and got bounced backwards by a fucking fullback in the tackle.

I actually got a _fin de seicle_ moment of wanting Fiji to win, just as I did in the few seconds before the midnight of that nincompoop Gareth Jenkins' career in Paris. At least then the purge would have been swift and clean, not long and drawn out like it will be now. WRU have fucked up big time - that coaching team will have to go, but we've now locked them into 4-year contracts, ensuring any payoff will be substantial. Roger Lewis should follow Gatland out of the door for that alone, IMO.


----------



## mattie (Nov 20, 2010)

It certainly wasn't the best.  Despite not rating Powell in the slightest, some of his head-down rampaging was badly, badly needed last night.  And less of the blind offloads - giving Fiji turnover ball by popping it straight into their hands should be a yellow card offence.

And I don't know who the commentator was but he needs shooting.  It's not sky sports soccer sunday, dear.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Nov 20, 2010)

The missus turned round to me during the game and said it was the worst she'd ever seen.  I couldn't disagree.  We'd been out and recorded it, settled down with a few bottles and proceeded to be amazed by how shit Wales were.  Bendy, I was in the same boat, cheering Fiji at the end for their endeavour and semblance of team-work.  

I can only take it this way - the Wales camp has been so focussed on the big boys that come Fiji-time they were mentally/physically knackered by all the self-flagellation and over-analysis that they just dropped their guard somewhat.  The problem there of course is that Fiji have a taste for beating us now, and came to play us knowing they could do a job on us if certain things went their way.  They drew us into a game we needed to avoid for a start.  We needed to charge up the guts and recycle but didn't do it.  Interestingly, against Aus and SA, we almost knew whick rucks would be the ones they challenged - Fiji seemed to go at everything, and our lads had a look of puzzlement on their faces at the oddness of it all.  Fiji are raw and physical, and whilst i felt their tactics were actually spot on, it was their all-in approach that rattled Wales.  

We have no depth.

More random mutterings:

Richie Rees has now proven himself an impact player as opposed to a starter.  We learnt that the hard way.

Deiniol is too lightweight.

Bennett is utter shite.

JT is not an 8.  Really.

We're fucked for a right winger.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 20, 2010)

Scotland's victory against a limited SA side puts the whole thing into perspective, really. Well done the Jocks - a great scalp to take - but we should have been there too. Our coaching team is inadequate. I think England and Scotland have shown clearly how close the NH is to all but the ABs. Wales, however, are going backwards at a rate of knots.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Nov 21, 2010)

"Warning, this vehicle is reversing..."


----------



## Infidel Castro (Nov 21, 2010)

And Dan Carter is not human.


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## bendeus (Nov 21, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> "Warning, this vehicle is reversing..."


 
Aye. Beep. Beep. Beep.

Rumours starting to surface of unrest in the camp. Totally unsubstantiated as yet, but you've got to wonder. The public dropping of Ryan and Howley's clear criticism of Biggar and Rees (although justified) smacks of a coaching team trying to deflect its own deficiencies onto the players.

Player power, getting bummed by south sea islanders, alarming dips in form in the pre-RWC season, resurgent Saes, failing to live up to the sum of our parts, coaching team getting a four year contract regardless of recent failure and mediocrity. Fucking great to be a Welsh rugby fan, innit?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 21, 2010)

> Rumours starting to surface of unrest in the camp. Totally unsubstantiated as yet, but you've got to wonder. The public dropping of Ryan and Howley's clear criticism of Biggar and Rees (although justified) smacks of a coaching team trying to deflect its own deficiencies onto the players.


 Time for a change or are we too far away from the WC?

We didn't play as bad as I thought we would, but to beat New Zealand you have to be at 100% for 82 minutes, we had a spell early in the second half which cost us. NZ are very composed when they have the ball, everyone is comfortable with it and when they get opportunities they are very clinical.

There were spells in the match where we built up good moves, got good possession so hope for the future.


----------



## starfish (Nov 21, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Scotland's victory against a limited SA side puts the whole thing into perspective, really. Well done the Jocks - a great scalp to take - but we should have been there too. Our coaching team is inadequate. I think England and Scotland have shown clearly how close the NH is to all but the ABs. Wales, however, are going backwards at a rate of knots.


 
Thankyou. Its not every day you beat the World Champions at anything let alone this sport.


----------



## gabi (Nov 22, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Aye. Beep. Beep. Beep.
> 
> Rumours starting to surface of unrest in the camp. Totally unsubstantiated as yet, but you've got to wonder. The public dropping of Ryan and Howley's clear criticism of Biggar and Rees (although justified) smacks of a coaching team trying to deflect its own deficiencies onto the players.
> 
> Player power, getting bummed by south sea islanders, alarming dips in form in the pre-RWC season, resurgent Saes, failing to live up to the sum of our parts, coaching team getting a four year contract regardless of recent failure and mediocrity. Fucking great to be a Welsh rugby fan, innit?



You're nuts! 

Your players are shit. You can't polish a turd etc. Both your coaches, gatland and edwards, have been hugely successful elsewhere. Do you seriously believe they're the problem here?


----------



## mattie (Nov 22, 2010)

A good game, I thought.  Samoa are hugely improved over the last time I saw them, a real ability to compete at breakdown and smash in the tackle (jesus, they're strong fellas) and a wonderful running and offloading ethos.  Most importantly, they seem to have dropped the cheap-shot indiscipline - Stowers got yellow-carded for exiles at the Rec when he knocked Abendanon out in a high/swinging arm tackle, so expected some fireworks from him again but instead it was well-channelled aggression with a number of good turnovers.

Hape is really coming back into form, a dip late last season for Bath but he's such an intelligent player with that rugby league ability to keep his arms free in a tackle.  Not the quickest, which I suppose is mitigated by pace behind and around him.  Interesting conundrum for Bath, Bananaman seems to be making the move to centres at club and country and Hape is much better at 12, Hape and Barkley both out of contract at the end of this season and we're light on wingers with Banahan moving to 13 - will we keep both Barkley and Hape for the 12 shirt or shift Barkley to 10, or cash someone in to free up salary cap for a winger?

Back to England, my concern is we're still not finishing off gaps and opportunities.  There's a few tries gone begging because of slightly over-ran support or foot on the touchline, NZ never waste opportunities but England seem to make finishing decent moves a bit harder than is necessary.  I didn't think I'd be making _that _observation a few months ago.

England are hugely improved - they now know who they think is the best in each spot which is giving much-needed continuity - and there's finally some zip on the ball for the backs to exploit.  Ashton is a very, very busy lad with a load of pace, needs to play a little bit more heads-up at times but it's all looking quite tidy.  Foden has been very, very impressive, Cueto has shown nous and good balance and Youngs and Flood have really got things moving.  I worry a touch about the back row, Easter has at last started using his immense strength to counteract for slight ploddishness and Croft supports excellently but there's a little bit of snideness missing, Moody is mental and Fourie a fucking beast but we could do with a touch more craft.  Can't have it all, I suppose.

Gutted I didn't record the Scots/Saffas game, after the NZ horror-show I couldn't bring myself to watch it but it sounds a very good riposte.  Ireland had a decent pop but NZ just look a class above at present - the benefits not only of great players but of a settled and consistent team-sheet.  I won't at this point mention unduly lenient referees.

Spoke about Wales already.  Not good, but bear in mind there's been some rotten luck with injury.  Need to figure out what's going on at halfbacks though, sets the tone and it really was woeful against Fiji - not that Howley should say it that publicly.  Jones won't last forever and Phillips isn't snappy enough in the pass, but Rees and Biggar looked poor.  Of course, it's not easy coming into a struggling team - England have a whole stream of backs who've been burned that way.


----------



## junglevip (Nov 23, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Aye. Beep. Beep. Beep.
> 
> Rumours starting to surface of unrest in the camp. Totally unsubstantiated as yet, but you've got to wonder. The public dropping of Ryan and Howley's clear criticism of Biggar and Rees (although justified) smacks of a coaching team trying to deflect its own deficiencies onto the players.
> 
> Player power, getting bummed by south sea islanders, alarming dips in form in the pre-RWC season, resurgent Saes, failing to live up to the sum of our parts, coaching team getting a four year contract regardless of recent failure and mediocrity. Fucking great to be a Welsh rugby fan, innit?



I thought this was funny(ish)


----------



## mattie (Nov 25, 2010)

So, forecasts for this weekend?  Or too painful to contemplate?


----------



## junglevip (Nov 25, 2010)

mattie said:


> So, forecasts for this weekend?  Or too painful to contemplate?


 
Plucky Wales to not finish their chances.  AB's to take the chances with aplomb.  Where are Wales's try's going to come from? 25 points the winning margin, I hope to be wrong.


----------



## junglevip (Nov 25, 2010)

Thia has made a bit of a fuss http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10689682


----------



## gabi (Nov 25, 2010)

stupid article


----------



## bendeus (Nov 25, 2010)

gabi said:


> You're nuts!
> 
> Your players are shit. You can't polish a turd etc. Both your coaches, gatland and edwards, have been hugely successful elsewhere. Do you seriously believe they're the problem here?


 
Fuck off back to the Man U thread now, there's a good boy. But before you go, tell me about Edward's recent 'success' with his defensive formations at Wasps in the last two seasons. You may be suprised to find that they're shipping tries at a rate of knots. Equally, you may want to explain to me why Gatland was overlooked in your own home country for a S12 team and instead had to do with a tenure at an NPC/Air New Zealand Cup side (Waikato, in case your man love for Man U blinds you to the details of your national sport). Do you think that, just maybe, your home union doesn't rate him?

You may also wish to posit a reason for why, with a side containing numerous (more than 10) British and Irish Lions, our win/loss record is as bad as it has been since 2003, when we really, truly were garbage, and had the sum total of 1 lion playing.

Obviously fuck all to do with our coaches. Oh no. It must be all about our players, who are shit. And you should know, because you spend all your time bashing yourself silly over Dimitar Berbatov.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 25, 2010)

mattie said:


> So, forecasts for this weekend?  Or too painful to contemplate?


 
England to cement their status as contenders with an assured win over Sith Ifrika (30 - 20)

Wales to cement their status as losers coached by twats with a typical third quarter capitulation to Gabi's second favourite team. (10 - 45)

France to prove again that with a decent backline and, more importantly, with an effective tight five, you can beat the Aussies (22 - 18)

Italy to heap shame on Wales by beating Fiji (15 - 9)

Scotland to build on their victory against the meat eaters by a competitive victory against Samoa (21 - 15)


----------



## bendeus (Nov 25, 2010)

gabi said:


> stupid article


 
Really?


----------



## mattie (Nov 26, 2010)

bendeus said:


> England to cement their status as contenders with an assured win over Sith Ifrika (30 - 20)
> 
> Wales to cement their status as losers coached by twats with a typical third quarter capitulation to Gabi's second favourite team. (10 - 45)
> 
> ...


 
The only one I'd be pretty firmly confident on is NZ to win - no reflection on Wales, NZ are simply the strongest team in international rugby at present, and they're completely relentless.

Oz have got superb players in the backline, not quite sure what's going on with France in going for big lumps everywhere (Traille f/h and Rougerie centre?) - Cooper is weak in the tackle so crash-ball is always a good option (England targeted to great effect) but the Oz backs look a good deal more nimble.  Interested to see where this one goes.

Can't bring myself to predict an England win, saffas are no idiots (well, Botha is an idiot but not in the sense I mean) and England's play is a little precarious at times as we figure out how to play with some pace - a few questionable offloads and players getting a bit isolated.  I hope it'll be a good game though.

Impressed by Samoa, they've added a lot more guile to their game to go with undoubted raw pace and power - their 15 in particular looked a very canny operator.  Keen to see how Scotland get on.  Italy/Fiji will be bruising.

In other news, the poor sod blinded in one eye by gouging has seen (pun most definitely not intended) the alleged perpetrator get away with it.  According to the torygraph the RFU reckon it was deliberate, but can do nothing as they can't be sure who did the deed.  If I played for Maidstone I'd be asking my team mates some pretty direct questions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/8158261/Blinded-Gravesend-players-anger-at-RFU.html?

(Having a bit of bother finding the judgement on the RFU website, will post if I find it)


----------



## flypanam (Nov 26, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Fuck off back to the Man U thread now, there's a good boy. But before you go, tell me about Edward's recent 'success' with his defensive formations at Wasps in the last two seasons. You may be suprised to find that they're shipping tries at a rate of knots. Equally, you may want to explain to me why Gatland was overlooked in your own home country for a S12 team and instead had to do with a tenure at an NPC/Air New Zealand Cup side (Waikato, in case your man love for Man U blinds you to the details of your national sport). Do you think that, just maybe, your home union doesn't rate him?
> 
> You may also wish to posit a reason for why, with a side containing numerous (more than 10) British and Irish Lions, our win/loss record is as bad as it has been since 2003, when we really, truly were garbage, and had the sum total of 1 lion playing.
> 
> Obviously fuck all to do with our coaches. Oh no. It must be all about our players, who are shit. And you should know, because you spend all your time bashing yourself silly over Dimitar Berbatov.


 
Can I just say best post ever!

South Africa to beat england after their Scottish humiliation.
NZ to clear Wales out and run off with their women.
France to get beaten by the Aussies.
Fiji to beat Italy
Samoa to make Haggis out of Scotland.
Ireland to arm wrestle Argentina. In the one bit of back play a minute from the end D' Arcy to go other for the try.


----------



## gabi (Nov 26, 2010)

Lol at bendeus. Hope you've got a good supply of screen wipes sonny.


----------



## gabi (Nov 26, 2010)

What you're overlooking dear bendy is that not only is your side shite at the moment, it always has been. Not sure it's fair to blame the imported foreign coaches of the national side for this, it must go much deeper than that.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 26, 2010)

mattie said:


> Oz have got superb players in the backline, not quite sure what's going on with France in going for big lumps everywhere (Traille f/h and Rougerie centre?) - Cooper is weak in the tackle so crash-ball is always a good option (England targeted to great effect) but the Oz backs look a good deal more nimble.  Interested to see where this one goes.


 
Only thing I can think of is that ML wants a group of backs who will knock-on at every given opportunity so that the forwards can scrummage the aussies to death.

Although that is assuming that he has a plan, which he blatantly doesn't.


----------



## mattie (Nov 26, 2010)

gabi said:


> What you're overlooking dear bendy is that not only is your side shite at the moment, it always has been. Not sure it's fair to blame the imported foreign coaches of the national side for this, it must go much deeper than that.



It's been quite a rapid fall from grace - when given the players are ostensibly the same as when Wales played good rugby, it would rather suggest Edwards' rush defence and other stocks-in-trade have been found out and the coaches are at a loss as of what to do and where to go.

Not sure I blame the coaches entirely, England went through a period of niggling injury to key players as well and it kills any continuity.  How many fly-halves we had when St Jonny was knacked I lose count.  Wales got some lucky breaks with injury (to other teams as well) when they were flying, now they're getting some very unlucky breaks.  The coaches haven't dealt with it entirely convincingly (Hook 13?  For why?)


----------



## mattie (Nov 26, 2010)

The Boy said:


> Only thing I can think of is that ML wants a group of backs who will knock-on at every given opportunity so that the forwards can scrummage the aussies to death.
> 
> Although that is assuming that he has a plan, which he blatantly doesn't.



He could get that backline to scrum.  They're pretty substantial fellas.


----------



## Superdupastupor (Nov 27, 2010)

nice win by Scotland over Samoa. tense game though.


----------



## 1927 (Nov 27, 2010)

BBC staying with the tennis rather thaj go live to the Wales V AB's game!!!!

I can foresee many letters of complaint.

AL;ready missed the minute's silence and tha anthems.


----------



## 1927 (Nov 27, 2010)

About to miss the ABs silly dance now.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 27, 2010)

1927 said:


> BBC staying with the tennis rather thaj go live to the Wales V AB's game!!!!
> 
> I can foresee many letters of complaint.
> 
> AL;ready missed the minute's silence and tha anthems.


 
surely its on the red button?


----------



## 1927 (Nov 27, 2010)

How many more times do NZ have to use hands on the ground before they get a yellow for persistant infringement?

As for wales they might as well do withiut their fancy coaches and get a primary school PE teacher in to team them the very basics of the schoolboy game, its pointless having ya fancy drift/blitz defences if you cant pass/tackle/find touch!


----------



## 1927 (Nov 27, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> surely its on the red button?


 
Put the fucking tennis on the red button.


----------



## 1927 (Nov 27, 2010)

Does SJ have a fucking brain in his head?


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> You're nuts!
> 
> Your players are shit. You can't polish a turd etc. Both your coaches, gatland and edwards, have been hugely successful elsewhere. Do you seriously believe they're the problem here?


 
Haven't been around for ages but it's good to see gabi still knows fuck all


----------



## gabi (Nov 28, 2010)

Yep. I know sweet fuck all. That turd's still lookin like it needs a good polishing tho 

Whose fault is it this week? The ref or the coach?


----------



## mattie (Nov 28, 2010)

Woah.  France get a bit of a slapping - weren't they drawing at half-time?

England show there's still work to do, but at least they didn't revert to the horrible conservatism of old when placed under considerable pressure.  Saffas played very well, the bastards.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 28, 2010)

Mr Retro said:


> Haven't been around for ages but it's good to see gabi still knows fuck all


 
Welcome back, Mr R!


----------



## bendeus (Nov 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> Yep. I know sweet fuck all. That turd's still lookin like it needs a good polishing tho
> 
> Whose fault is it this week? The ref or the coach?


 
Your boys got away with murder at the breakdown, mostly right in front of Lewis, and received no sanction. I'm not blaming him, mind, as it appears that every ref on earth is equally purblind when it comes to the ABs particular brand of cheating.

Please answer these questions:

1) Is it the coaches' fault or the players' that our backline kept on crabbing sideways towards each touch line, shipping on increasingly shit ball, with the drift defence completely comfortable rather than exploiting overlaps by straightening up.
2) Is it the coaches' fault or the players' that, yet again, our transition defence (realigning formation to a defensive one after turnover ball) is breached very, very easily
3) Is it the coaches' fault or the players' that the execution of the chase once the ball has been kicked infield is weak, ragged and inconsistent, allowing the opposition to run the ball back rapidly and effectively, setting up a platform for damaging counterattack?
4) Is it the coaches' fault or the players' that two members of our backrow, who were actually being pretty effective around the park and at the breakdown, were bafflingly substituted on 48 minutes for a weak tackling,  non-yard-making 'ball carrier' who proceeded to miss two crucial first-up tackles leading to tries, and a man with a brush for a brain?
5) Is it the coaches' fault or the players that a bloke with plenty of previous for missing touch with long range penalties still has the responsibility within the team for long-range touchfinder penalties?
6) Is it the coaches' fault or the players that our lineout is still a shambles, even though the linesout of the respective regions in which those players ply their trade appear to be perfectly functional?
7) Is it the coaches' fault or the players that we have lost our offload game completely, even though a large number of the blokes on the pitch were part of the wonderful, offloading GS side of 2005?
8) Is it the coaches' fault or the players that we have been shipping an average of between two and three tries per game for the last couple of years?
9) Is it the coaches' fault or the players that our record over the period of their tenure goes something like 2007/08 - 6N: 5/5, AI: 2/4, 2008/09: 6N 3/5 AI: 1/4, 2009/10 - 6N: 2/5, AI: 1/4, 2010/11 - AI: 0/4? Can you see a pattern here? Does that pattern sort of indicate that the longer the coaching team have had the side for, the worse they've got?

So, crack on and let me know your thoughts, or maybe you're just a typical Kiwi soccer fan glory seeker who comes on these threads once a year to gloat hollowly when your crack team of poached Pacific Islanders win some games of rugby at the peak of their season, but a long time short of the peak of those teams they're playing. I reckon you know the sum total of fuck all about the game, myself, but here's your chance to prove me wrong.


----------



## mattie (Nov 28, 2010)

To be fair, it ain't all the coaches - the game moves on; patterns and moves become outdated, law (and their interpretations) change, players lose or gain an edge, players retire or become unavailable for whatever reason.  A given set of players might thrive in one setting and struggle in others - for example, Worsley did a job for England once upon a time as he's a fearsome tackle machine at 6, but Croft is light years better in the galloping support game that's now required.

In saying that, I will say that Wales haven't looked a completely coherent team for a good number of years now, and that is entirely in the remit of the coaches.

Without wishing to gang up on gabi any further, he did once suggest Brian O'Driscoll ain't very good, at which point I assumed he was on a wind-up.


----------



## mattie (Nov 28, 2010)

1927 said:


> How many more times do NZ have to use hands on the ground before they get a yellow for persistant infringement?
> 
> As for wales they might as well do withiut their fancy coaches and get a primary school PE teacher in to team them the very basics of the schoolboy game, its pointless having ya fancy drift/blitz defences if you cant pass/tackle/find touch!


 
It's simply amazing, ain't it - I just can't fathom why refs aren't putting half the NZ team in the sin-bin every game.  It's just so cynical as well, which is precisely what he yellow card is intended to punish.

eta: youtube is full of it, even Lynagh draws attention to McCaw being naughty:

Probably already been posted (and probably by me ), but a blow-by-blow acount of NZ not really abiding by the laws and (inexcusably) not being held to account:


----------



## bendeus (Nov 28, 2010)

mattie said:


> To be fair, it ain't all the coaches - the game moves on; patterns and moves become outdated, law (and their interpretations) change, players lose or gain an edge, players retire or become unavailable for whatever reason.  A given set of players might thrive in one setting and struggle in others - for example, Worsley did a job for England once upon a time as he's a fearsome tackle machine at 6, but Croft is light years better in the galloping support game that's now required.
> 
> In saying that, I will say that Wales haven't looked a completely coherent team for a good number of years now, and that is entirely in the remit of the coaches.
> 
> Without wishing to gang up on gabi any further, he did once suggest Brian O'Driscoll ain't very good, at which point I assumed he was on a wind-up.


 
Absolutely agree. There were issues with our handling, decision making and first-up tackling that had nothing to do with coaching, just as 1927 points out. It's what you refer to as coherence that, to me, indicates a massive issue with our coaching setup. It's very, very hard when watching Wales to work out what the gameplan is, either in attack or defence. The players look overcoached, clueless automata, who are incapable of playing the guy in front of them, and only have route one as an option. The instinctiveness seems to have been coached out of them, and that has always been one of Welsh rugby's most fearsome weapons. We are NOT the Wasps of the 1990s, and we don't have the playing staff to effectively execute that gameplan. Rather than building a team around its inherent and natural strengths, while at the same time ironing out some of its idiosyncratic weaknesses, Gatland has used a one size fits all template that really doesn't sit comfortably with a Welsh team. I think that this is why the aimlessness and cluelessness seem to be coming to the fore; the players are simply being asked to execute a game that they don't feel comfortable with.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 28, 2010)

mattie said:


> It's simply amazing, ain't it - I just can't fathom why refs aren't putting half the NZ team in the sin-bin every game.  It's just so cynical as well, which is precisely what he yellow card is intended to punish.
> 
> eta: youtube is full of it, even Lynagh draws attention to McCaw being naughty:
> 
> Probably already been posted (and probably by me ), but a blow-by-blow acount of NZ not really abiding by the laws and (inexcusably) not being held to account:



Those videos are fucking unbelievable. I must admit to feeling a curious satisfaction when Mongo chinned McCaw yesterday - the fucker had been cheating non-stop for the entire game, and doing so right in front of the nose of Lewis.


----------



## mattie (Nov 28, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Those videos are fucking unbelievable. *I must admit to feeling a curious satisfaction when Mongo chinned McCaw yesterday* - the fucker had been cheating non-stop for the entire game, and doing so right in front of the nose of Lewis.



I didn't see the game - I was busy freezing my nuts off at the Rec at, strangely enough, the Wasps game - so that's the first I've seen of it.  Not sure I'd fancy being on the end of a clothesline from Powell, but by Christ it's infuriating when the refs sit on their hands so I'm not surprised McCaw gets the occasional slap.  I tried to vote the following comment up but it won't let me for some reason:



> Shocking hollywood from McCaw.
> 
> McCaw should man the fuck up. Rugby is not tuddlywunks






eta:  Youtube linky to Hulk Hogan forearm smashing the heel Vince McMahon:
eta2:  Just noticed the ref gave a knock-on


----------



## The Boy (Nov 29, 2010)

So after an Autumn of experimenting we have discovered that....we can outscrum Australia.  Awesome.  That isn't a waste of three internationals, oh no.


----------



## mattie (Nov 30, 2010)

A question for you all.

I had a discussion with a few mates about tackling (yes, there were no fit barmaids on show that night), and I was told about Shane Williams hurdling Tospy Ojo's tackle a few weeks back.  Is this actually allowed?  When I played as a kid we were absolutely reamed by the coach/PE teacher if we ever tried to jump through a tackle - it was one of the first things drummed into us when we started full contact rugby.

I actually think it should be penalised - you're not allowed to tackle anyone in the air, so a runner deliberately 'taking to the air' (ok, _you _think of a better phrase) to avoid a tackle can't be reasonable.  It's also putting your knees in rather close but artificial proximity to the bridge of someone's nose.

For those that haven't seen it, rugby dump yet again comes up trumps:
http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2010/10/midweek-madness-shane-williams-hurdles.html


----------



## starfish (Nov 30, 2010)

I would have thought it would be illegal as well. Pretty sure we'd have got hammered at school & at my club if we tried it. Agree with some of the comments about it not being sporting either. Also pretty dangerous for both players.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2010)

mattie said:


> A question for you all.
> 
> I had a discussion with a few mates about tackling (yes, there were no fit barmaids on show that night), and I was told about Shane Williams hurdling Tospy Ojo's tackle a few weeks back.  Is this actually allowed?  When I played as a kid we were absolutely reamed by the coach/PE teacher if we ever tried to jump through a tackle - it was one of the first things drummed into us when we started full contact rugby.
> 
> ...


 
Piss of yer fuckin miserablist! You'd want to legislate against that sort of poetry in motion? Bloody English and your ten man game!


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2010)

....oh,


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2010)

Here it is on yewtube: 

You wouldn't want to stop that! It'd be like kneecapping the Bolshoi Ballet, or breaking the fingers of a concert pianist.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2010)

Sorry, but seriously, Ickle's fuckin' lush. What the hell are we going to do next season?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2010)

starfish said:


> I would have thought it would be illegal as well. Pretty sure we'd have got hammered at school & at my club if we tried it. Agree with some of the comments about it not being sporting either. Also pretty dangerous for both players.


 
Ahh feck off! Just because you've got no fucking backs! Honestly!


----------



## mattie (Dec 1, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Here it is on yewtube:
> 
> You wouldn't want to stop that! It'd be like kneecapping the Bolshoi Ballet, or breaking the fingers of a concert pianist.




But just think of the carnage if Andy Powell tried it.

actually, that's probably a good reason to allow it.  We don't have enough slapstick in rugby.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 1, 2010)

mattie said:


> But just think of the carnage if Andy Powell tried it.
> 
> actually, that's probably a good reason to allow it.  We don't have enough slapstick in rugby.


 
Or Adam Jones. That's be fucking hilarious. Like a Giant Haystacks coup de grace.


----------



## mattie (Dec 1, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Or Adam Jones. That's be fucking hilarious. Like a Giant Haystacks coup de grace.



I can hear the crash as he lands on some 13st winger.  You'd have to dig him out of the ground.


----------



## junglevip (Dec 1, 2010)

OOoops!


----------



## junglevip (Dec 1, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Those videos are fucking unbelievable. I must admit to feeling a curious satisfaction when Mongo chinned McCaw yesterday - the fucker had been cheating non-stop for the entire game, and doing so right in front of the nose of Lewis.


 
A cynical cheap shot from Andy Powell, best of all was the 'hurt' look on McCaws his face.  Great!!!


----------



## mattie (Dec 4, 2010)

The Chavster may make his debut in men's rugby at Wemberley on boxing day:
http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2010-11/rugby/story/130376.html

And, erm, well......nope, someone will have to explain this to me:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2010/12/03/wales-should-play-henson-at-no-8-says-michael-owen-91466-27758669/?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 5, 2010)

mattie said:


> The Chavster may make his debut in men's rugby at Wemberley on boxing day:
> http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2010-11/rugby/story/130376.html
> 
> And, erm, well......nope, someone will have to explain this to me:
> http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2010/12/03/wales-should-play-henson-at-no-8-says-michael-owen-91466-27758669/?



You've seen it, too? The only explanation that I can think of is that Michael Owen has gone completely batshit crazy. There's  a rich tradition in Wales of ex players turning pundit and coming out with some of the most spurious drivel ever uttered, but being taken seriously because they're ex players (see Paul Moriarty and Phil Bennett). This is a classic case in point. Chavin can play 15, 10, 12, and, some would say, 13 as well. But 8???


----------



## gabi (Dec 5, 2010)

Bendeus, just had a look at your posts from last week. You're properly certifiable. It must actually be a good laugh watching a game with you. 

Anyway, seeya round. Next time our poached pacific islanders kick your arse (all actual kiwis, get a passport dude, head down there and you might better understand the culture down there)

x


----------



## mattie (Dec 5, 2010)

bendeus said:


> You've seen it, too? The only explanation that I can think of is that Michael Owen has gone completely batshit crazy. There's  a rich tradition in Wales of ex players turning pundit and coming out with some of the most spurious drivel ever uttered, but being taken seriously because they're ex players (see Paul Moriarty and Phil Bennett). This is a classic case in point. Chavin can play 15, 10, 12, and, some would say, 13 as well. But 8???



It's weird.  I'd agree that 8 benefits from some decent ball-handling skills, but to my mind it's dictated by physique (with dynamic power being a key attribute) more than any other position.

He also says:


> South Africa have already moved in that direction, with Spies. He is a real catalyst for them.
> 
> He’s got the speed of a back and great hands, as he showed with the scoring pass for Willem Alberts against England last weekend.


 
Everything I've seen of Spies says 'gymrat'.  Incredible athlete, but didn't exactly strike me as Zinzan Brooke.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 5, 2010)

gabi said:


> Bendeus, just had a look at your posts from last week. You're properly certifiable. It must actually be a good laugh watching a game with you.
> 
> Anyway, seeya round. Next time our poached pacific islanders kick your arse (all actual kiwis, get a passport dude, head down there and you might better understand the culture down there)
> 
> x



Anytime you want to, y'know, demonstrate that you have a fucking clue about the game, how it's played, and who plays it, just feel free to post. Otherwise, I'll look forward to your reappearance on here next autumn with the same kind of anticipation with which I will await my own demise.


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## bendeus (Dec 5, 2010)

.


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## bendeus (Dec 6, 2010)

mattie said:


> It's weird.  I'd agree that 8 benefits from some decent ball-handling skills, but to my mind it's dictated by physique (with dynamic power being a key attribute) more than any other position.



I couldn't agree more, and this is why the likes of Ryan Jones have gone from being one of the best to an also-ran. The way the game is played requires immense physicality - namely linebreaking, retention and the ability to present good, clean ball off the deck from a modern 8, which is why I've generally been so incredulous at the continued inclusion of JT in that position for Wales.

To me, the best 8 in the UK at present is and remains Xavier Rush, and he's a fucking wrecking ball. His influence on the game is total, and that all stems from his ability to get beyond the gainline and recycle quickly. Stop Rush and you stop the Blues. Any fule kno that.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Dec 6, 2010)

bendeus said:


> You've seen it, too? The only explanation that I can think of is that Michael Owen has gone completely batshit crazy. There's  a rich tradition in Wales of ex players turning pundit and coming out with some of the most spurious drivel ever uttered, but being taken seriously because they're ex players (see Paul Moriarty and Phil Bennett). This is a classic case in point. Chavin can play 15, 10, 12, and, some would say, 13 as well. But 8???


 
I've already got Mikey Phillips pencilled in at 8, so Michael can fuck right off!


----------



## bendeus (Dec 6, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> I've already got Mikey Phillips pencilled in at 8, so Michael can fuck right off!


 
Yeah. He'll be suggesting that Spikey could possibly double as a scrum half next!


----------



## mattie (Dec 6, 2010)

Bollocks.  Speaking of awesome 8s, Luke Watson's going back to Eastern Province at the end of the season.

I can't reinforce just how superb he's been, he'll be a real loss.  Another period of rebuilding then, especially if Butch ups and leaves as well.


----------



## mattie (Dec 6, 2010)

In further news, rumours are now that we're after either Tom Croft (yeah, right) or The Brand James Haskell (more likely, given the RFU's recent announcements on overseas caps) as replacements.  Croft would suit us perfectly, but no reason why he'd leave Leicester and they'd be very eager not to let him go.  Haskell a good player but very cocky, and not up to the standards Croft sets.

Someone on Bath Rugby Ere linked to this.  Oh, those crazy students.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 6, 2010)

mattie said:


> In further news, rumours are now that we're after either Tom Croft (yeah, right) or The Brand James Haskell (more likely, given the RFU's recent announcements on overseas caps) as replacements.  Croft would suit us perfectly, but no reason why he'd leave Leicester and they'd be very eager not to let him go.  Haskell a good player but very cocky, and not up to the standards Croft sets.
> 
> Someone on Bath Rugby Ere linked to this.  Oh, those crazy students.


 
Surely you guys are the Manchesta Citeh of rugby. The brand would be rather a modest acquisition given your bottomless purse,  no?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 6, 2010)

Good to see POC back, just in time for the 6N


----------



## flypanam (Dec 7, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Good to see POC back, just in time for the 6N



Good to see as well that his first action was a rather good lineout take and rumble to make yards. Don't want to critise the big man to much but I hope he stops that anoying habit of going to ground to quickly.


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## mattie (Dec 7, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Surely you guys are the Manchesta Citeh of rugby. The brand would be rather a modest acquisition given your bottomless purse,  no?


 
Salary cap.  Thankfully.

eta:  I should amplify that.  One of the reasons I'm glad the cap exists is because teams have to think how they want to approach the game and staff the team accordingly - if you fancy a heavyweight international tight-five, you'll not get a world-class backline, and vice-versa.  It stops teams with cash snapping up the best talent, which the Premier League shows makes the league something of a joke.  It also means you have to develop young tyros, Bath have got two flanks in Guy Mercer and Josh Ovens - and a number of props including Nathan Catt and Mark Lilley (Chris Lilley's lad) - who are going to be very good players but who wouldn't do it if we became the Chelsea of rugby.  Why we let ickle Ryan Davies go I really don't understand (he's now doing well at Exeter), but I suspect it was to do with looking to get established names in his position (10/12/15) as the running game is currently our bread-and-butter.  I reckon he'll have a very good career, he struggled at 10 at Bath but put in some decent shifts at 12, and captained the England U21s.  Keeping him perhaps meant not getting OB1 back, which shows the need to shuffle.

The cap also makes the rumours quite interesting, as it's more of a horse-trade than a Man City-style shopping trip.  If Butch goes there's talk we might be after Charlie Hodgson, but if he's any sense he'd go to Northampton who are a solid 10 away from being one of the better teams in Europe (yes, seriously - their front row is terrifying, their locks and loose forwards dynamic and their backs excellent).  Myler and Geraghty are two good players but neither seem to be getting the backs into the game as much as the work of thier forwards should allow.  It's a good situation, much as I'd love Hodgson at Bath - his creativity and ability to get backs moving mitigating his somewhat bunny-in-headlights defensive work -  I'm glad it's not simply money that talks.  You have to build a team by a vision of how you want to play, not simply by throwing cash (although the vision does of course impact where you focus your financial investment.)


----------



## Infidel Castro (Dec 8, 2010)

Mattie, N'hampton are the team that scare me in the Blues' HEC group - they put the willies up me.  Double header coming though, and if we square that I think we might get out of our group.


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## mattie (Dec 8, 2010)

Infidel Castro said:


> Mattie, N'hampton are the team that scare me in the Blues' HEC group - they put the willies up me.  Double header coming though, and if we square that I think we might get out of our group.



Northampton have been good value in every game I've seen them play - there's a real joy in the way they play, they can inject pace from pretty much everywhere.

It'll be a good game, some interesting match-ups in there - although a shame that Blues are missing a few established backs (I think Roberts isn't supposed to be fit, and Blair and Halfpenny out).  Martyn Williams is playing, him and Warburton will have a job and a half to do to slow the ball down - the Saints midfield have some bulk to them in players like Downey, and Ashton and Foden are simply superb at working off any space created.  On song, there's not many teams that can live with it, aside from picking superb supporting lines Ashton runs his bollocks off and Foden has brushed Armitage aside for England's starting 15 which shows he's got real ability.  There's some serious power and dynamism in the forwards as well, the front row has Ewan Murray (although he certainly won't play the return leg as he doesn't play Sundays), Tonga'uiha and Hartley, interested to see how Jenkins et al get on (I'm making some assumptions that they're all fit, not sure who's crocked at present).  Rush will have some very good backrowers up against him, Wood, Dowson and Wilson make a very tidy unit indeed.

It's going to be tough for the Blues, but I reckon they'll be two very good games to watch.  I don't know enough about the Blues to call it, last time I saw them they took Gloucester apart at Twickenham, but time's moved on and Northampton are a different proposition.


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## bendeus (Dec 8, 2010)

The Blues are cack this season. Utter bobbins. They'll lose home and away.


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## mattie (Dec 8, 2010)

That's the spirit.

Bath are going to lose too.  All a bit slovenly and sloppy at present, not sure the returns of Hape, Bananaman, Daveyboy and Watson (if fit and not preaching on twitter) are going to be enough.  We need Butch back, badly.


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## mattie (Dec 10, 2010)

That's the Croft idiocy put to bed.

We're keeping Butch James until at least season's end.  Shame he probably won't be fully fit until then, the way things seem to be going.

On the injury front, George North out, probably for the start of the 6 nations.  So it might be Aled Brew out wide against England?  Christ.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 11, 2010)

mattie said:


> That's the Croft idiocy put to bed.
> 
> We're keeping Butch James until at least season's end.  Shame he probably won't be fully fit until then, the way things seem to be going.
> 
> On the injury front, George North out, probably for the start of the 6 nations.  So it might be Aled Brew out wide against England?  Christ.


 
Christ, indeed. 

Gatland played him injured against NZ. Exacerbated the injury. 3 months out. Way to go, Warren.


----------



## agricola (Dec 11, 2010)

Anyone see Brendan Venter's post-match interview on Sky?


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## bendeus (Dec 12, 2010)

Hilarious. Best post match interview evah!


----------



## bendeus (Dec 12, 2010)

If anyone ever wants an object lesson in how to cheat like fuck with total, unabashed cynicism, and the knowledge that the ref won't do anything about it, look no further than the last 15 minutes of the Os vs. Muhnner. They are cunts, and a scourge on the game only mildly less egregious than those dastardly cheating tiggers.

That is all.


----------



## mattie (Dec 12, 2010)

bendeus said:


> If anyone ever wants an object lesson in how to cheat like fuck with total, unabashed cynicism, and the knowledge that the ref won't do anything about it, look no further than the last 15 minutes of the Os vs. Muhnner. They are cunts, and a scourge on the game only mildly less egregious than those dastardly cheating tiggers.
> 
> That is all.



Yep.  They're pretty fucking good at this rugby lark.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 12, 2010)

mattie said:


> Yep.  They're pretty fucking good at this rugby lark.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 12, 2010)

Really, though, proper, egregious, lowlife cunts. They've got previous and all.







That's Spikey's eyes being battered about in their sockets.

E2A: And that's ignoring Honest Paul O'Connell's elbow in the face of JT, and Leamy's bit of nastiness at the end. If there was justice, the cunts would all get cited and banned for the return at the Library. No doubt uncle Barry will be on the citing committee, though, and will find that Spikey was at fault for putting his eyes in the way of an honest Muhnner player's wandering, splayed fingers.


----------



## mattie (Dec 13, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Really, though, proper, egregious, lowlife cunts. They've got previous and all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Ah.  _That _sort of dirtiness.  Not pleasant.

(your picture doesn't work on my computer, btw)


----------



## bendeus (Dec 13, 2010)

'Ere you go, butt. On about 4 seconds. Very quick (so as to escape detection and possible sanction, one would think), but his thumb and forefinger definitely go for the eye sockets. While Spikey was being held down as well.

Dirty, cheating bastards.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 13, 2010)

This is worth reading:

http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/story/115148.html

A citing officer who believes that gouging should carry an automatic life ban.

Attaboy!


----------



## mattie (Dec 14, 2010)

Not sure quite what he thought he was doing, or how that wasn't going to be picked up by cameras.  Surely he's been cited.

Not entirely convinced it was a full-on gouge (c.f. Burger's disgrace on Fitzgerald which was a deliberate - and successful - attempt to get fingers into eyeballs), but there should be no quarter given - there's no justification for having your hands anywhere near anyone's face, and the potential damage is career-threatening.

The problem comes in that not everyone seems to view it as the sin it is - the whole farce with the French spitting the dummy over Attoub and Dupuy's banning (in Dupuy's case for just about the most blatant gouge I've ever seen), Burger getting only 8 weeks for a completely deliberate and sustained gouge.  I can't understand how they defend the indefensible, but they do.  Blackett has already handed out weighty bans for this, Hartley got half a year and Dupuy and Attoub got the book thrown at them before the French got stroppy, and all this is encouraged by the IRB under Lapasset - but progress seems disjointed.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 14, 2010)

mattie said:


> Not sure quite what he thought he was doing, or how that wasn't going to be picked up by cameras.  Surely he's been cited.
> 
> Not entirely convinced it was a full-on gouge (c.f. Burger's disgrace on Fitzgerald which was a deliberate - and successful - attempt to get fingers into eyeballs), but there should be no quarter given - there's no justification for having your hands anywhere near anyone's face, and the potential damage is career-threatening.
> 
> The problem comes in that not everyone seems to view it as the sin it is - the whole farce with the French spitting the dummy over Attoub and Dupuy's banning (in Dupuy's case for just about the most blatant gouge I've ever seen), Burger getting only 8 weeks for a completely deliberate and sustained gouge.  I can't understand how they defend the indefensible, but they do.  Blackett has already handed out weighty bans for this, Hartley got half a year and Dupuy and Attoub got the book thrown at them before the French got stroppy, and all this is encouraged by the IRB under Lapasset - but progress seems disjointed.


 
Agree. It may not be a 'first degree' gouge in the sense of sustained contact to the eye sockets, but he deliberately and with forethought stuck his fingers into the eyes of a prone player unable to defend himself. He's not been cited yet, but if he is (and it will be a fucking farce if he isn't), Blackett is apparently the presiding officer. LOL.

Totally agree on the total lack of consistency with the IRB citing process, also. How can there be such a disparity of sanctions without the game being cheapened. The IRB needs to look very closely at the disciplinary process lest it descends into low farce. I'll be very interested, for example, to see what O'Connell gets for his elbow to Gough's face. Henson got 12 weeks for this:



POC has been cited for this:



Both were provoked. Both used the elbow, forcing the player off the field. One could say that Henson's is *slightly* more justified given the obvious intent of his 'victim' to do him damage. If POC gets less than 12, it's a farce. POC will get less than 12.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 14, 2010)

Massive Lulz from Dai Humphries in pointing out this very point  in anticipation of the hearing. Not trying to influence the decision at all, oh no......



> "Paul O'Connell is not a dirty player by any stretch of the imagination," said Humphreys, whose side were unable to capitalise against 14 men after the lock saw red after his swinging arm hit Ospreys number eight Jonathan Thomas.
> 
> "*A very similar thing happened to Gavin Henson against Leicester, and unfortunately he got 16 weeks for an offence like that.*
> 
> ...


----------



## bendeus (Dec 14, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Good to see POC back, just in time for the 6N


 
Lol.


----------



## mattie (Dec 14, 2010)

The gouging issue should be straightforward, and credit to Lapasset and Blackett for saying it'll get appropriate treatment - although individual unions need to put that into practice.  The Saffas and NZ are too lenient on home players, and the French just need to realise it's beyond the pale.

POC's elbow looked more reckless than anything, but there's no doubt he landed Thomas good and proper so I'd expect his 6N campaign to be at risk.  You can't elbow someone in the mooie and expect to get away with it.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 14, 2010)

mattie said:


> The gouging issue should be straightforward, and credit to Lapasset and Blackett for saying it'll get appropriate treatment - although individual unions need to put that into practice.  The Saffas and NZ are too lenient on home players, and the French and Irish just need to realise it's beyond the pale.
> 
> POC's elbow looked more reckless than anything, but there's no doubt he landed Thomas good and proper so I'd expect his 6N campaign to be at risk.  You can't elbow someone in the mooie and expect to get away with it.


 
Fixed for accuracy


----------



## mattie (Dec 14, 2010)

BTW, the Rugby Paper had more than one commentator suggesting Bath are after Hook.  It's the lead article, and Guscott raised it as well.

Good work by Hook's ten-percenter, perhaps, but there seems to be some momentum to the rumours.  Still think it might be someone like Geraghty or Hodgson.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 14, 2010)

mattie said:


> BTW, the Rugby Paper had more than one commentator suggesting Bath are after Hook.  It's the lead article, and Guscott raised it as well.
> 
> Good work by Hook's ten-percenter, perhaps, but there seems to be some momentum to the rumours.  Still think it might be someone like Geraghty or Hodgson.


 
Fucking good luck to you if you get him, tbh. He ain't exactly setting the world alight atm, and he ain't no ten. He can operate at o/h only with experienced/world class players and game managers either side of him (Henson and Marshall, for example). His game has gone majorly backwards over the last year or so, IMO.


----------



## mattie (Dec 14, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Fucking good luck to you if you get him, tbh. He ain't exactly setting the world alight atm, and he ain't no ten. He can operate at o/h only with experienced/world class players and game managers either side of him (Henson and Marshall, for example). His game has gone majorly backwards over the last year or so, IMO.


 
It won't happen because rumour has it we can't go beyond 350ish K, whereas the French are talking over the half million.

Claassens more than good enough to get the best out him.  The team is crying out for a creative spark at 10, Butch has been sublime but just cannot stay fit, Vesty is a good player but hasn't got that ability to make things happen.  Not sure where Barkley fits into the mix, what with Hape and perhaps Bananaman to fit into the centres somehow.  Quite a decent set of backs, with the exception of proven finishers on the wings and a creative 10.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 14, 2010)

I hope a move sparks an improvement in his game. He's slipped to third choice OH, will be second choice centre, at best, when Chavin comes back, and equally, third choice FB. He's made no position his own, is prone to the most appalling brainfarts, throws one or two interceptions every international season, is too greedy and squanders scoring passes, runs away from support and frequently coughs up, and is suspect defensively.

A sublime talent from the neck down, unfortunately.


----------



## mattie (Dec 14, 2010)

Meh.  You can keep him then.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 14, 2010)

He's going to Perpignan. As a 10.

(((Perpignan)))


----------



## flypanam (Dec 15, 2010)

Oi Bendus, a certian Tommy Bowe was considered as error prone as Hook. When I saw Ireland playing NZ in Wellington, the NZ herald said it was the worst performance by a 14 in living memory. Now look at the man, not bad for a lad from Emyvale. 

In other news looks like Paul Warwick will be leaving Munster as the they will only offer him a one year contract. Stade Francais look most likely to get him.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 15, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Oi Bendus, a certian Tommy Bowe was considered as error prone as Hook. When I saw Ireland playing NZ in Wellington, the NZ herald said it was the worst performance by a 14 in living memory. Now look at the man, not bad for a lad from Emyvale.
> 
> In other news looks like Paul Warwick will be leaving Munster as the they will only offer him a one year contract. Stade Francais look most likely to get him.


 
Aye. I know. Lee Byrne and Matthew Rees are also examples of players everyone thought were shit until they suddenly stopped being.

Hook is a different matter, though. He's had moments of brilliance in his development, but seems to steadfastly refuse to address his weaknesses. Physically he has all the attibutes to play at the very highest level, and if he had Stephen Jones' game management skills, he would be up there with Carter and Giteau, IMO, but he doesn't. He's flakey and a poor decision maker, and as such should not be put in control of a game.

E2A: What's up with Muhnner? They a bit skint or summat, or do they think he's superfluous to requirements?


----------



## mattie (Dec 15, 2010)

Lee Byrne is doing his best to regress.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 15, 2010)

mattie said:


> Lee Byrne is doing his best to regress.


 
Yeah. Talking of brainfarts........

Thank fuck we've got such strength in depth at 15


----------



## mattie (Dec 15, 2010)

flypanam said:


> Oi Bendus, a certian Tommy Bowe was considered as error prone as Hook. When I saw Ireland playing NZ in Wellington, the NZ herald said it was the worst performance by a 14 in living memory. Now look at the man, not bad for a lad from Emyvale.
> 
> In other news looks like Paul Warwick will be leaving Munster as the they will only offer him a one year contract. Stade Francais look most likely to get him.


 
A few Oirish seem to be up for invitation at the mo - mention of Sexton and Trimble leaving Leinster and Ulster respectively.  Bath need a pacey wing, so a few rumours/hopelessly wild conjecture around Trimble, who ran one in over the length of the park last time Bath played Ulster at the Rec.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 16, 2010)

mattie said:


> A few Oirish seem to be up for invitation at the mo - mention of Sexton and Trimble leaving Leinster and Ulster respectively.  Bath need a pacey wing, so a few rumours/hopelessly wild conjecture around Trimble, who ran one in over the length of the park last time Bath played Ulster at the Rec.


 
Trimble? The only guy (with the exception of Ronan O'Gara) to have been handed off by Shane? You're better off with Aled Brew.


----------



## The Boy (Dec 16, 2010)

bendeus said:


> He's going to Perpignan. As a 10.
> 
> (((Perpignan)))


 
And no doubt put the French FHs to shame.


----------



## mattie (Dec 16, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Trimble? The only guy (with the exception of Ronan O'Gara) to have been handed off by Shane? You're better off with Aled Brew.


 
Steady on.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 16, 2010)

So honest Munster get totally let off the hook, and honest Ireland get honest POC for the 6N. There's a surprise.

No citing at all for the gouge, no citing for Leamy's shennanigans, and 4 weeks for an elbow that left a player having to have seven stitches, and unable to continue on the pitch. How they can deliver that verdict with a straight face after giving Henson 12 weeks is a fucking outrage.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 16, 2010)

mattie said:


> Steady on.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 16, 2010)

The Boy said:


> And no doubt put the French FHs to shame.


 
Not that difficult at the moment though, is it?


----------



## mattie (Dec 16, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Not that difficult at the moment though, is it?


 
I think that was the point.

Wilko also looks to be staying on there, whether that harms his England chances or not - although he's developed his running game I'm not sure he's seen as the man at 10 for England any more.  Inside centre berth still not 100% nailed for Flutey or Hape, and could do with a kicker _somewhere _in the centres.....


----------



## mattie (Dec 17, 2010)

Lovely weekend of rugby coming up.

Bath have got Butch James back (and starting - a touch risky?) against Ulster, and Meehan has at least noted that Barkley had a good game at 12 with Bananaman not so clever at 13 by shunting Bananaman to 11, Barkley to 13 and reinstating Hape in at 12 (Hape missed last week as his missus dropped a sprog).

Ferris out for Ulster, shame as he's a great player but gives Bath much more of a chance - we just couldn't deal with him last week or last season.   Just hope Butch can get Claassens to stop making noddy choices and can get the backline going.  Cuthburt starts at 15, despite looking like he'd throw up running the length of the pitch - Abendonan had a stinker last season in Ulster but he's easily our best attacking runner so not quite sure what the plan is.

Looking forward to the previously discussed Northampton/Blues.  Got a touch fiery last time, with Hartley unsurprisingly right at the centre of it.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 17, 2010)

mattie said:


> Lovely weekend of rugby coming up.
> 
> Bath have got Butch James back (and starting - a touch risky?) against Ulster, and Meehan has at least noted that Barkley had a good game at 12 with Bananaman not so clever at 13 by shunting Bananaman to 11, Barkley to 13 and reinstating Hape in at 12 (Hape missed last week as his missus dropped a sprog).
> 
> ...


 
He is, without doubt, my most hated player. Gobby flat-track bully and gouging bellend. I'd really love to see him get his comeuppance sometime soon. 

Jamie Roberts is back for the Blues, which should add a big dimension to their game. Slightly more optimistic about this if they manage to hold their own better at the setpiece.


----------



## mattie (Dec 17, 2010)

bendeus said:


> He is, without doubt, my most hated player. Gobby flat-track bully and gouging bellend. I'd really love to see him get his comeuppance sometime soon.
> 
> Jamie Roberts is back for the Blues, which should add a big dimension to their game. Slightly more optimistic about this if they manage to hold their own better at the setpiece.


 
The cynic would say all good hookers should be bastards (with caveats about fingers venturing into eye sockets).  Not sure about flat-track bully either, he's a good player - which sadly means he'll be in an England shirt pretty regularly, pissing off all and sundry.

Roberts and Shanklin, do I follow that right?  That's some big running there, but I fear repeated big running straight into contact.  Or is the awesomely monikored Lualala going in anywhere?

What's the verdict on Parks, btw?  Two or three seasons back he was hilariously bad in a tragically awful Scots team, a few decent gmaes in this years' 6N and looks like he's figured how to run a game.  Got to be better than Sweeney at any rate.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 17, 2010)

mattie said:


> The cynic would say all good hookers should be bastards (with caveats about fingers venturing into eye sockets).  Not sure about flat-track bully either, he's a good player - which sadly means he'll be in an England shirt pretty regularly, pissing off all and sundry.
> 
> Roberts and Shanklin, do I follow that right?  That's some big running there, but I fear repeated big running straight into contact.  Or is the awesomely monikored Lualala going in anywhere?
> 
> What's the verdict on Parks, btw?  Two or three seasons back he was hilariously bad in a tragically awful Scots team, a few decent gmaes in this years' 6N and looks like he's figured how to run a game. Got to be better than Sweeney at any rate.


 
All hookers could do with a bit of niggle, but Hartley is foul. He seems intent on causing trouble at every turn. Really fucking horrible.

Shanks is very much second choice at 12/13 for the Blues. The first choice pairing is Roberts, Laulala. Laulala is the perfect foil for Roberts, an epic, ball-handling, running, playmaking 13 in a similar kind of mould as Regan King (but better defensively), who can play perfectly off the straight running that Roberts offers. Shanks is no longer needed at the Blues: he should go to the Os, who could really use a 13 of his stature.

Parks? Hrm. Jury's still out. He's had some good games, some indifferent ones, and a few standout shit ones. He doesn't seem to be able to unlock the backline as well as you'd hope. A decent, playmaking 10 who has the range of skills to provide options, and is able to play flat is what the Blues need - I'm not quite sure if he's that guy


----------



## mattie (Dec 17, 2010)

Yeah, you can spot the kiwi in him.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 17, 2010)

mattie said:


> Yeah, you can spot the kiwi in him.


 
Aussie?

E2A: Nicky Robinson is 'that guy'. What are your thoughts on him at Gloucester?


----------



## mattie (Dec 18, 2010)

I meant Hartley.

Robinson did well in the games against Bath (at least, the two I've seen) - quite understated, nothing eye-catching in the traditional sense (i.e. nothing flash), just the right call pretty much all the time.  Got a try in the last game, the bastard, and showed good hands to get Vainikolo in for another after fumbles on our side.  Kicked pretty much perfectly all game, in shitty conditions.

Gloucester getting it together, some very tidy backs in there - I'm a fan of Simpson-Daniel, but only with some muscle around him (i.e. Tindall)


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 18, 2010)

bendeus said:


> So honest Munster get totally let off the hook, and honest Ireland get honest POC for the 6N. There's a surprise.
> 
> No citing at all for the gouge, no citing for Leamy's shennanigans, and 4 weeks for an elbow that left a player having to have seven stitches, and unable to continue on the pitch. How they can deliver that verdict with a straight face after giving Henson 12 weeks is a fucking outrage.



I don't think it was a gouge, he pushed his face. If you think Leamy should be cited then there'd be 10 of those every week.

Henson ran in and elbowed a guy in the face, Saint Paul was swinging an arm at someone trying to pull him away from a ruck, plus Henson is Welsh.

It should be a tasty rematch today, but if ROG had kicked his goals they'd have been out of sight last weekend.


----------



## 1927 (Dec 18, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> I don't think it was a gouge, he pushed his face. If you think Leamy should be cited then there'd be 10 of those every week.
> 
> Henson ran in and elbowed a guy in the face, Saint Paul was swinging an arm at someone trying to pull him away from a ruck, plus Henson is Welsh.
> 
> It should be a tasty rematch today, but if ROG had kicked his goals they'd have been out of sight last weekend.


 
The fuck Henson ran in, have you seen the incident you twat.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 18, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> I don't think it was a gouge, he pushed his face. If you think Leamy should be cited then there'd be 10 of those every week.
> 
> Henson ran in and elbowed a guy in the face, Saint Paul was swinging an arm at someone trying to pull him away from a ruck, plus Henson is Welsh.
> 
> It should be a tasty rematch today, but if ROG had kicked his goals they'd have been out of sight last weekend.



Two out of three of these sentences are utter bollocks.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 18, 2010)

Nice bit of cheating for Muhnner's second try, btw. He-humped in the tight, though. Why we didn't go for a scrum in front of the posts in the dying seconds is a mystery. 

Oh, and Adam Jones is god.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 18, 2010)

1927 said:


> The fuck Henson ran in, have you seen the incident you twat.


 
Indeed, all Sleater needs to do is move a languid mouse finger to the previous page where I posted the two videos and click, and presto, he will be able to see Saint Paul's honest mistake in comparison to the craven cheat Henson's bullying of that prop who had come in to rabbit punch him. This will, naturally, back up his assertions.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 18, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Nice bit of cheating for Muhnner's second try, btw. He-humped in the tight, though. Why we didn't go for a scrum in front of the posts in the dying seconds is a mystery.
> 
> Oh, and Adam Jones is god.


Cheating?. What about that blatant blocking *again* for their first?. Not to mention the crooked throw - ins, knock ons etc that went unpunished.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 18, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Indeed, all Sleater needs to do is move a languid mouse finger to the previous page where I posted the two videos and click, and presto, he will be able to see Saint Paul's honest mistake in comparison to the craven cheat Henson's bullying of that prop who had come in to rabbit punch him. This will, naturally, back up his assertions.


 
I have seen the two videos. Did you think Henson getting 12 weeks at the time was fair then?.  Henson's was directly in front of the ref, so maybe he got the extra weeks for stupidity.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 18, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Cheating?. What about that blatant blocking *again* for their first?. Not to mention the crooked throw - ins, knock ons etc that went unpunished.


 
Crooked throw ins and knock ons aren't cheating they're examples of poor officiating (I obviously won't mention Buckley popping up at _every_ scrum, or the fact that only about 25% of his persistent infringement drew the attention, or the off-feet illegal sealing off at rucktime, or indeed that Munster spent the entire game living offside) . Taking out a player off the ball in order to score tries is. So is spear tackling. So is sticking up a foot and tripping a player in possession from the bottom of a ruck. All in a day's work for honest Munster though, eh? Nice to see the mask slip when they were having their arses handed to them in the tight, though. Y'know, when they got all punchy and aggressive. Your gougy hooker was particularly prominent when the handbags started flying - far more so than at scrumtime, I felt.

Oh, and how was Phillips' tackler 'blocked', ffs?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 18, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:
			
		

> I have seen the two videos. Did you think Henson getting 12 weeks at the time was fair then?. Henson's was directly in front of the ref, so maybe he got the extra weeks for stupidity.



No I don't think it was fair. Moreno intended him ill; he was defending himself. I reckon six weeks would have been about right. I do, however, feel that there needs to be parity and transparency when it comes to handing out bans. That some players quite rightly get the best part of a year on the sidelines for gouging, when Burger gets weeks is an embarrassment. Ditto Saint Paul. He knew exactly what he was doing, he gave the guy stitches, and effectively took him out of the game. He should have got 12 weeks just the same.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 18, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Crooked throw ins and knock ons aren't cheating they're examples of poor officiating (I obviously won't mention Buckley popping up at _every_ scrum, or the fact that only about 25% of his persistent infringement drew the attention, or the off-feet illegal sealing off at rucktime, or indeed that Munster spent the entire game living offside) . Taking out a player off the ball in order to score tries is. So is spear tackling. So is sticking up a foot and tripping a player in possession from the bottom of a ruck. All in a day's work for honest Munster though, eh? Nice to see the mask slip when they were having their arses handed to them in the tight, though. Y'know, when they got all punchy and aggressive. Your gougy hooker was particularly prominent when the handbags started flying - far more so than at scrumtime, I felt.
> 
> Oh, and how was Phillips' tackler 'blocked', ffs?


Spear tackling now?.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 18, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Spear tackling now?.


 
You saw the game. You know, that tackle by Mafi and Earls on Fussell in midfield: the one where he goes through 90% and they drive him downwards towards the ground. That's what a spear tackle is. No different from the one on BOD on the Lions tour. That's why the commentary kept replaying it again and again - because they could have broken his neck, and they both should have seen red for it.

Something that the citing commissioner would no doubt be interested in if it weren't the honest men of Cork who were doing it.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Spear tackling now?.


 
Here you fucking go.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

Onan's a brave boy as well, mind:






What a fucking specimen. Not content with losing the Lions the SA series, he tries to piss about with one of the players who genuinely stood up in the three tests.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

The Muhnner 'try':


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

Glad we've got that one sorted


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

http://www.break.com/video-user-yt/8-2009/1222715


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Here you fucking go.



A spear tackle is where he's driven head first into the ground, not where he's slammed on his back ffs.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Onan's a brave boy as well, mind:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He didn't loose them the series, get a fucking grip. Do you want to talk about the welsh management not getting the pack sorted out until it was too late instead?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> The Muhnner 'try':


 A push by a player chasing after a ball versus someone being taking out on the line again - do the welsh practice blocking or what?, notice you didn't put that video up


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> You saw the game. You know, that tackle by Mafi and Earls on Fussell in midfield: the one where he goes through 90% and they drive him downwards towards the ground. That's what a spear tackle is. No different from the one on BOD on the Lions tour. That's why the commentary kept replaying it again and again - because they could have broken his neck, and they both should have seen red for it.
> 
> Something that the citing commissioner would no doubt be interested in if it weren't the honest men of Cork who were doing it.


 
That wasn't a spear.  A spear is where you purposefully rotate someone, generally by lifting the legs, not driving them up and back as as the case here.  Let's not throw silly phrases about.  A spear is an arsehole's trick, that was a good double tackle on someone who'd been given a hospital pass.

Caught a bit of the munster/hairsprays, more than a little testy in places.  Is there something in the way the game's taught in Ireland that encourages flagrant dummy running into covering defenders?  Ulster did it all game against Bath too, the ref seemed singularly uninterested in dealing with it.  Saying that, Bath fucked it up by giving away numpty penalties to a team blessed with a superb kicker.


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

Snowed in so watching the rugby on web stream.

Cracking one for Cardiff/Northampton here:
http://www.justin.tv/twomintpork1#/w/668677120/2

Some niggles already.  Excellent.


----------



## 1927 (Dec 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> He didn't loose them the series, get a fucking grip. Do you want to talk about the welsh management not getting the pack sorted out until it was too late instead?


 
Funny, my recollection is the he bottled it bigtime and cost us the series. maybe they showed a different version in Ireland.


----------



## 1927 (Dec 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> A spear tackle is where he's driven head first into the ground, not where he's slammed on his back ffs.


 
http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2040903.html I think you'll find that the IRB disagree with you on this one!


----------



## 1927 (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> That wasn't a spear.  A spear is where you purposefully rotate someone, generally by lifting the legs, not driving them up and back as as the case here.  Let's not throw silly phrases about.  A spear is an arsehole's trick, that was a good double tackle on someone who'd been given a hospital pass.
> 
> Caught a bit of the munster/hairsprays, more than a little testy in places.  Is there something in the way the game's taught in Ireland that encourages flagrant dummy running into covering defenders?  Ulster did it all game against Bath too, the ref seemed singularly uninterested in dealing with it.  Saying that, Bath fucked it up by giving away numpty penalties to a team blessed with a superb kicker.


 
I refer you to the link in my previous post.


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

1927 said:


> I refer you to the link in my previous post.



The key word is 'lifting'.

Cardiff/Northampton is turning into a very good game to watch, btw.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 19, 2010)

Two awful tackles from Cardiff there, the first un punished against Ashton and the second against Lawes. One man sent off for Cardiff.


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

Ah.  Rush redcarded.  Had to fly out of the line to stop Northampton exploiting an overlap, but high-shotted Lawes.  The 6 foot 7 Lawes.  Not sure he wrapped either, looked pretty bad.

Bugger, a good game up until then, spicey but not that bad.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 19, 2010)

1927 said:


> Funny, my recollection is the he bottled it bigtime and cost us the series. maybe they showed a different version in Ireland.


 
They sure as fuck show a different version of rugby in wales.


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> They sure as fuck show a different version of rugby in wales.





No comment.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> A spear tackle is where he's driven head first into the ground, not where he's slammed on his back ffs.


 
Wrong. A spear tackle is when you turn the player 90 degrees in the tackle, and are in control of him with downward pressure; driving him into the ground. What you saw there was a spear tackle.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> He didn't loose them the series, get a fucking grip. Do you want to talk about the welsh management not getting the pack sorted out until it was too late instead?


 
Oh he did. He most certainly did. Or was that another player I saw dropping off a head up tackle to wave the Saffa through for their final try? Or maybe it was scotch mist who tackled the Saffa player in the air, allowing the kickable penalty that won them the game and the series?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> Is there something in the way the game's taught in Ireland that encourages flagrant dummy running into covering defenders?



Yes


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> Snowed in so watching the rugby on web stream.
> 
> Cracking one for Cardiff/Northampton here:
> http://www.justin.tv/twomintpork1#/w/668677120/2
> ...



Blues blew that bigtime. Rush - what a twat! Parks failing to control the backline properly, and shown up at scrumtime again.

Blues going backwards, sadly. Dylan Hartley's still a cunt, mind.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> They sure as fuck show a different version of rugby in wales.


 
Oh look, there's even a facebook group dedicated to his singlehanded dismantling of our chances in that game:

Ronan O'Gara is a tit



> in the second half, a tit by the name of Ronan O'Gars came on. The Lions were leading and just had to hold out for one of thier most famous wins in thier proud history. But no. First of all, O'Gara attempts a powder puff tackle on Jacques Fourie, and Fourie scores a crushing try in the corner. All you had to do was hit him with everything you've got, with every sinew of you body, and Fourie would have gone into touch.
> 
> Then, with time about to expire, the score 25-25, O'Gara had the ball in his 22. All he had to do was hoof the ball into row Z and the series goes to a decider. But no, he puts in a ridiculous up and under, then clumsily takes Fourie Du Preez out in the air, giving the 'Boks a penalty chance to win the match and the series.
> 
> The rest is history - the hopes and dreams of 22 players and four Nations shattered for another four years.


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Blues blew that bigtime. Rush - what a twat! Parks failing to control the backline properly, and shown up at scrumtime again.
> 
> Blues going backwards, sadly. _Dylan Hartley's still a cunt, mind_.




Some people try their best but just can't help being objectionable.  I think Hartley positively revels in it.

I was sort of hoping Johno might have beaten the worst of it out of him, but sadly not.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> A push by a player chasing after a ball versus someone being taking out on the line again - do the welsh practice blocking or what?, notice you didn't put that video up


 
Surely that's your job. Do you reckon that there was no illegal blocking by Munster players during that game, then?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> Some people try their best but just can't help being objectionable.  I think Hartley positively revels in it.
> 
> I was sort of hoping Johno might have beaten the worst of it out of him, but sadly not.



He's certainly fast becoming Wales' new cardboard-cutout rugby villain. It's been a while - not since the days of Dallaglio have we had an Englishman so well suited to pressing the bile buttons


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:
			
		

> The key word is 'lifting'.



Let me get this right. If one of Fussell's feet had been on the ground at the moment of contact it would have been a clear spear tackle, but because he was a couple of inches off the ground when the caught, lifted, rotated and slammed down it wasn't? I'm not sure I buy that, Mattie. They essentially picked him up, turned him and drove him downwards into the ground, and it's the latter action that makes it dangerous and, IMO, illegal play. The fact that he wasn't touching the ground at the moment of inital contact seems immaterial really.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Let me get this right. If one of Fussell's feet had been on the ground at the moment of contact it would have been a clear spear tackle, but because he was a couple of inches off the ground when the caught, lifted, rotated and slammed down it wasn't? I'm not sure I buy that, Mattie. They essentially picked him up, turned him and drove him downwards into the ground, and it's the latter action that makes it dangerous and, IMO, illegal play. The fact that he wasn't touching the ground at the moment of inital contact seems immaterial really.


 
In fact, on second viewing, he was touching the ground when contact was made. So what bit of that didn't constitute lifting, turning and driving down into the ground? IRB rules state that it's a spear when head or upper body makes contact first. I genuinely don't see how that isn't one.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

Have a look at some of these beauties: 

Can't see any difference between them and the tackle yesterday.


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Let me get this right. If one of Fussell's feet had been on the ground at the moment of contact it would have been a clear spear tackle, but because he was a couple of inches off the ground when the caught, lifted, rotated and slammed down it wasn't? I'm not sure I buy that, Mattie. They essentially picked him up, turned him and drove him downwards into the ground, and it's the latter action that makes it dangerous and, IMO, illegal play. The fact that he wasn't touching the ground at the moment of inital contact seems immaterial really.


 
He/they didn't lift - he/they drove him.  His legs came up because of his momentum (and the fact the silly fucker jumped into the tackle), his upper body was pushed back, his little legs kept going and he rotated onto his back.  His momentum is what got his body horizontal, not the tacklers lifting.  That's the key point.  I thought it was a great tackle.

Look at what God-botherer Kev and Ma did to O'Driscoll - intentionally lifted him, intentionally inverted him and intentionally used him as a tent peg.  There's very little comparison.


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> He's certainly fast becoming Wales' new cardboard-cutout rugby villain. It's been a while - not since the days of Dallaglio have we had an Englishman so well suited to pressing the bile buttons


 
It's got to the point where it's counter-productive, getting the other team fired up and doing nothing to get your own going.

Why the hate for Lozzer, btw?  An arrogant twat, but so are most of the professional ranks.  Not that dirty, either - mainly because the left the hard graft of rucking to Sirs Hill and Back.

eta:  Ironically, it's twats like Hartley that made me give up playing rugby at a young age.  Being a lock, if the other team got the needle with ours, for whatever reason, it was always me and the blokes beside and in front of me who got it back. We had a scrum-half who liked to use the silver slipper just for shits and giggles, which of course meant when said slipper was on the other foot I'd be catching it in the teeth.  I'd take a smack for a team-mate I respected, no way was I taking one for the rodent we had at 9.


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> In fact, on second viewing, he was touching the ground when contact was made. So what bit of that didn't constitute lifting, turning and driving down into the ground? IRB rules state that it's a spear when head or upper body makes contact first. I genuinely don't see how that isn't one.


 
Answer me this - if his arm hadn't been out, how is this not a spear tackle by the above description?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> It's got to the point where it's counter-productive, getting the other team fired up and doing nothing to get your own going.
> 
> Why the hate for Lozzer, btw?  An arrogant twat, but so are most of the professional ranks.  Not that dirty, either - mainly because the left the hard graft of rucking to Sirs Hill and Back.


 
Probably because he was so bloody good, and such a perfect fit for the stereotypical chippy Welsh image of the lantern-jawed Englishman. What sealed his supervillain status was when he hammered on the door of the Welsh dressing room bellowing and goading after your mob gave us a total feeding with a largely second XV at the Millennium Stadium.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> Answer me this - if his arm hadn't been out, how is this not a spear tackle by the above description?


 
He drives Tait backwards in the tackle, he doesn't upend him and drive him downwards into the ground. The Munster players are in control of Fussell - they have taken his weight. They then drive him very clearly downwards - at 90 degrees, not as Henson did at about 45.


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> He drives Tait backwards in the tackle, he doesn't upend him and drive him downwards into the ground. The Munster players are in control of Fussell - they have taken his weight. They then drive him very clearly downwards - at 90 degrees, not as Henson did at about 45.



Tait's shoulders are lower than his hips, and he didn't put himself in that position.  If his arms had been pinned he'd have landed shoulder-first.

I've watched the Munster tackle half-a-dozen times, it's simply not a spear.  He was driven backwards.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> Tait's shoulders are lower than his hips, and he didn't put himself in that position.  If his arms had been pinned he'd have landed shoulder-first.
> 
> I've watched the Munster tackle half-a-dozen times, it's simply not a spear.  He was driven backwards.


 
Can't agree. He was clearly driven downwards. Anyway, let's move on.............


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

Who said this?



> It's not the referee's fault we lost [sic] but clearly the authorities have some issues to deal with. The sides who want to cheat at the breakdown are getting away with it more and more."



Marvellous.  

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/dec/19/leicester-tigers-perpignan-heineken-cup


----------



## mattie (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> Ah.  Rush redcarded.  Had to fly out of the line to stop Northampton exploiting an overlap, but high-shotted Lawes.  The 6 foot 7 Lawes.  Not sure he wrapped either, looked pretty bad.
> 
> Bugger, a good game up until then, spicey but not that bad.



Up on Youtube.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Oh look, there's even a facebook group dedicated to his singlehanded dismantling of our chances in that game:


That settles it then, I must get more opinions on rugby from facebook.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 19, 2010)

mattie said:


> Answer me this - if his arm hadn't been out, how is this not a spear tackle by the above description?


 Because A) He's welsh and B) It's lovely Gavin.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 19, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Can't agree. He was clearly driven downwards. Anyway, let's move on.............


 
Yeah, let's move on from that spear tackle bendeus.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 20, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Yeah, let's move on from that spear tackle bendeus.


 
Happy to. No doubt dirty, dirty Munster will provide more grist to my mill the next time they take to a pitch.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 20, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> That settles it then, I must get more opinions on rugby from facebook.



You don't think O'Gara was in any way responsible for losing that match, and therefore that series, then?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 20, 2010)

mattie said:


> Up on Youtube.




Pretty vicious. Those trying to absolve him are pointing out that Laws ducked into the tackle, which is true. Rush had no grounds to be leading into a tackle with a straight arm like that, though. Red was the correct call, IMO.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 20, 2010)

mattie said:


> Who said this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Oh that *is* beautiful.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 20, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Because A) He's welsh and B) It's lovely Gavin.


 
Yup. We're the keen, clean innocents of the game. Such a shame to have to play against such despicable masters of the viler arts


----------



## bendeus (Dec 20, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Oh that *is* beautiful.


 
Mind you, I've just seen that the poison dwarf, Fitzgibbon, was reffing. He is, IMO, the most inept match official currently plying his trade at the highest level. He's one to make the blood boil, but that takes nothing away from the hilariousness of the reaction of the 'wronged' party.


----------



## mattie (Dec 21, 2010)

Woah.  Attwood being linked with Bath as we desperately need some grunt in the second row, but could do without this:

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_6605487,00.html

That's taking the Dan Grewcock emulation a touch far.


----------



## 1927 (Dec 21, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Because A) He's welsh and B) It's lovely Gavin.


 
And the fact that he didnt drive him into the ground!


----------



## mattie (Dec 21, 2010)

1927 said:


> And the fact that he didnt drive him into the ground!



Are you mixing up your dump tackles and your elbows there buddy?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 21, 2010)

*The Gouger gets Gouged*







Richie Rees, you fucking bellend. He's been cited for it, and is, IMVHO, bang to rights. 






12 weeks minimum.

Still can't see a lot of difference between this and Varley's bit of eye socket fingerbobs, but hey-ho. It needs to be stamped out of the game. Full sanction for the vicious little cunt.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 21, 2010)

mattie said:


> Woah.  Attwood being linked with Bath as we desperately need some grunt in the second row, but could do without this:
> 
> http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_6605487,00.html
> 
> That's taking the Dan Grewcock emulation a touch far.



Fuck me. Sorry, but  should carry a life ban. I imagine the police will also be fairly interested in questioning him; there was total intent, and it's GBH.

Update on the Quinnell stamp/eye loss - they've arrested the Cross Keys fullback, questioned him and released him on bail. I think for incidents like this there's no choice but to get the law involved - that's waaaaaaaaay beyond any rough housing that comes as a part and parcel of the game.


----------



## mattie (Dec 22, 2010)

I despair.

I realise Hartley is an infuriating twat, and I'd have understood and forgiven a smack in the chops, but keep fingers out of eyes svp.

That stamp was bad, he meant to land him one.  It looked like a stamp to clear the man holding his leg (it looked like he was aiming for chest and hit the head on the way down), but no matter what he was thinking it's the same issue - you do something stupid and dangerous that gets someone hurt, you pay the full penalty.  I'd hope that the severity of the injury would be a factor, if the prop loses the sight in his eye then big (measured in seasons or life) bans would have to be considered.  You've fucked someone's career, you forego yours.  If he'd got him in the chest I'd still have expected a big ban, but the damage caused puts it into a different league.

That's pretty much my thinking on POC's elbow - it looked like he was mainly trying to break Thomas' grasp on his jersey, but if you swing an arm around at head height it ain't rocket science to figure it might hurt whoever it hits.  It, indeed, did hurt - so 4 weeks is totally insufficient.

Basically, I'm in favour of considering injury as an aggravating factor, but not as mitigating.  If you fortunately don't hurt someone through dangerous play you should still be penalised as though you did, and if the injury is particularly serious expect the book to be thrown.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 22, 2010)

mattie said:


> That's pretty much my thinking on POC's elbow - it looked like he was mainly trying to break Thomas' grasp on his jersey, but if you swing an arm around at head height it ain't rocket science to figure it might hurt whoever it hits.  It, indeed, did hurt - so 4 weeks is totally insufficient.
> 
> Basically, I'm in favour of considering injury as an aggravating factor, but not as mitigating.  If you fortunately don't hurt someone through dangerous play you should still be penalised as though you did, and if the injury is particularly serious expect the book to be thrown.


 
Well you couldn't make it up. Munster are appealing the 4 weeks. I hope that they give the fucker more just for the barefaced effrontery of appealing a ban that by rights should have been double in length. Of course, it being St Paul and Muhnner, they'll probably rescind the ban and give Jonothan Thomas 10 weeks for shirt pulling.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 22, 2010)

And just for balance, rumour surfacing that Rush has got a one-week ban. If true, this is also a travesty.

E2A:



> Xavier Rush, the Cardiff Blues player (No 8), appeared before an independent Disciplinary Hearing in Bristol today (Wednesday, 22 December, 2010) as a result of the red card he received during the Heineken Cup Pool 1 match against Northampton Saints at Cardiff City Stadium on Sunday, 19 December, 2010.
> 
> The red card was issued in the 55th minute of the second half by referee Jerome Garces (France) for a dangerous tackle above the line of the shoulders on Northampton Saints lock Courtney Lawes (No 4) in contravention of Law 10.4 (e).
> 
> ...


----------



## 1927 (Dec 22, 2010)

mattie said:


> Are you mixing up your dump tackles and your elbows there buddy?


 
No.


----------



## mattie (Dec 22, 2010)

1927 said:


> No.


 
What has Henson got to do with spear tackles?  I'm lost.


----------



## mattie (Dec 22, 2010)

bendeus said:


> And just for balance, rumour surfacing that Rush has got a one-week ban. If true, this is also a travesty.
> 
> E2A:


 
Lucky boy.  Lawes ain't short and wasn't exactly limboing


----------



## bendeus (Dec 22, 2010)

mattie said:


> Lucky boy.  Lawes ain't short and wasn't exactly limboing


 
Lucky boy indeed. He was 'limboing' though - head was about a foot lower than it would normally be when Rush made contact. I kind of agree with the assessment that Xav didn't intend to take Lawes' head off. A week is a bit of a break, though.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 22, 2010)

mattie said:


> What has Henson got to do with spear tackles?  I'm lost.


 
Do keep up - we're on gouging, stamping and elbows now, FFS


----------



## mattie (Dec 22, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Lucky boy indeed. He was 'limboing' though - head was about a foot lower than it would normally be when Rush made contact. I kind of agree with the assessment that Xav didn't intend to take Lawes' head off. A week is a bit of a break, though.


 
No doubt Rush meant to take man and ball to prevent an offload/quick recycle and exploitation of an overlap, as opposed to maiming anyone, but he fucked it up royally.  Lawes really wasn't that low, certainly no lower than anyone else either entering contact or trying to get round it.  Bad tackle, but I suppose bad tackles will be made in good faith.


----------



## mattie (Dec 22, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Do keep up - we're on gouging, stamping and elbows now, FFS


 
I'm not quite sure where we're gong with the comparisons.  We'll be arguing equivalence between handbagging and deliberate knock-ons next.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 22, 2010)

bendeus said:


> Yup. We're the keen, clean innocents of the game. Such a shame to have to play against such despicable masters of the viler arts


 ...


----------



## bendeus (Dec 22, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> ...


 
So why didn't Varley get cited, then?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 23, 2010)

bendeus said:


> So why didn't Varley get cited, then?


 
Because it was just a push in the face, not a gouge.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 24, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Because it was just a push in the face, not a gouge.


 
Bollocks.

Look again: 

What's that cheeky thumb doing, then? Do you need to spread that towards the left eye in order to 'push the face'?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 24, 2010)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9311845.stm

St. Paul martyred


----------



## 1927 (Dec 24, 2010)

bendeus said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9311845.stm
> 
> St. Paul martyred


 
Surprised they didnt increase the ban for a frivolous appeal!


----------



## 1927 (Dec 26, 2010)

Haven't seen tha game so can anyone tell me how the new welsh centre faired in his comeback game?


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

back online!

shocking performance against the Os by munster
or should that be good performance by the Os against munster...

question is- who will leave the group?

Irish have ruled themselves out
What are Toulon going to achieve this season?

Was hoping paul might miss the 6 nations so he could miss a series of shocking irish performances and focus on the HK this year

think france have to be favourites, but wales have a lot of promise

dont really care as long as we shit on scotland

england may be the old rivals, but scotland really are crap at the moment
would be humiliating to get beaten by them


----------



## bendeus (Dec 27, 2010)

Red Faction said:


> back online!



Welcome back, mun. This thread has missed you.



> shocking performance against the Os by munster
> or should that be good performance by the Os against munster...



Shocking performance by the Os backs against Munster
Incredible performance by the Os pack against Munster
Typical performances by a declining, but experienced and still very street-smart side by Munster against the Os in both legs. Your front three is the worst in European rugby - there's only so much jiggery pokery at the scrum that can mask that. That you still win games at the top level is testimony to how fucking wily you bastards are.




> question is- who will leave the group?
> 
> Irish have ruled themselves out
> What are Toulon going to achieve this season?



No idea. Still wouldn't bet against your boys beating Jonny Wilkinson's Toulon  away. Fail to do that, and if we 4-0 the plastics in Reading, then I reckon it's the end of the line. Permutations still too tight - Frogs in control, though. How the Os must be rueing that last (and latest) capitulation away.



> Was hoping paul might miss the 6 nations so he could miss a series of shocking irish performances and focus on the HK this year
> 
> think france have to be favourites, but wales have a lot of promise



France? They're pretty shit as far as I can make out. We have promise if all our players are fit, and Henson is at 12. In that instance I reckon the championship is ours. As it stands, it's looking like we'll play the Saes with no wingers , no fullback, and possibly no 10. 

England are looking like contenders for the first time in ages, but we'll see. Two decent performances against a powderpuff Australia don't mask the easy beatings they had at the hands of the ABs and meateaters. They're still meh in the backrow, and at 10, 12 and 13.

You boys: nobody but nobody should be able to win international matches with the likes of Buckley and Healy up front. Nobody. Refs a little more lively to the boring in, illegal binding and other, standard bullshit served by the Munster/Ireland tight five these days as well. That said, you're strong as fuck from 4 through to 8, and from 13 to 15. Big gaps amongst that, mind. Not enough of a spine to really compete, IMO. But gawd knows.

I don't think Scotland are crap at the moment at all, BTW. Robinson is coaching them to play very limited but effective rugby, and I expect them to turn both Wales and Ireland over in Ghillie Jockland this year. Pack very competitive, and an effective halfback pairing.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 27, 2010)

1927 said:


> Haven't seen tha game so can anyone tell me how the new welsh centre faired in his comeback game?


 
As well as can be expected.


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

look through the heineken cup archive and you'll see proof that tournaments can be one with 10 men provided: 
1. they occupy numbers 1-10 consecutively
2. play in red and 
3. come from limerick

2/3 should be enough to win you the 6N. 

im not convinced by england- although as happens every year- the media buys it hook line and sinker
there are no lucky wins- only wonderful triumphs
no narrow losses- only humiliating defeats

The only humiliating defeat in this year's 6N will be one that occurs at the hands of scotland
yes robinson has had them playing limited, but effective rugby- as evidenced by the fantastic victory over scotland- autumn '09
they have a very exciting new centre- the lad who playing in the last game up in aberdeen

same old faces
rugby that is possibly even more limited than before- certainly on the basis of these internationals i would be inclined to say less effective than before
but alas, too readily capable of bringing a creaking irish team to its knees

the scrum is a real cause for concern
dont know why these 'front row specialists' dont spend their training time learning to scrummage
seems like john haye's entire raison d'etre is to lift paul o'connell at lineouts
if i had refereed irelands last few internationals there would have been more penalty tries against the men in green and the props would have watched the game from the touchline
and im pretty fucking biased- even at the best of times...

1. wales
2. france -wiley old bastards
3.italy 
4.ireland
5.england - i only wish!
6.scotland


----------



## mattie (Dec 31, 2010)

Red Faction said:


> and im pretty fucking biased- even at the best of times...
> 
> 1. wales





I'll say no more, lest it bit me right up the backside in a few months' time.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 1, 2011)

mattie said:


> I'll say no more, lest it bit me right up the backside in a few months' time.


 
It's our year, mate. The return of the orange one will bring us another slam. You heard it here first.


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

Changes afoot at HQ - the precise damage to be announced later this afternoon.

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_6636419,00.html

I'm sure all rugby fans will unite in wishing Rob Andrew a good fuck off.


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

Yeeee-hah.

http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/story/132037.html


----------



## The Boy (Jan 8, 2011)

6N prediction:

England
Wales
Scotland
Ireland
France
Italy

Gone out on a limb on a few games to get that result, so prob won't look anything like that.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 10, 2011)

Ireland
France (on points)
England
Scotland
Wales
Italy


----------



## mattie (Jan 10, 2011)

Gethin Jenkins injured.  Again.  Not good for the taffs.

Simpson-Daniel talked about as a potential England centre. Very good player, but he's not the answer - and he's not the next cab off the rank for wing either.  We need to fix both 12 and 13 starters, and have a very clear idea who are replacements are in those positions.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 12, 2011)

Lawes out too. Talk of Shaw coming in. England's best line out operator out. Shame.

For the record.
Ireland (the season of Sean O Brien?)
England
France
Wales (Would have been higher had not Jenkins got crocked)
Italy
Scotland (sorry lads, but your game is woefully limited and deserves bottom place)

Anyway more important things afoot with Ulster about to beat Biarritz in Ravenhill at the weekend!!!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 15, 2011)

bendeus said:


> It's our year, mate. The return of the orange one will bring us another slam. You heard it here first.


 
Cian Healy did him with a spear tackle, bet he won't get cited either. He made a difference when he was on the pitch too.


----------



## torquemad (Jan 15, 2011)

Er, anyone know how the Scarlets v Leicester game went?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 16, 2011)

Munster out, but that's been coming a while. their pack has really dwindled recently.


----------



## mattie (Jan 17, 2011)

torquemad said:


> Er, anyone know how the Scarlets v Leicester game went?


 
A bit of cockiness from Youngs there, as most 9s are, but I suppose he can back it up at least.  Superb player.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 17, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Munster out, but that's been coming a while. their pack has really dwindled recently.



I don't think that there is anything wrong per se with the Munster pack that a good tight head and number 8 couldn't sort out. Unfortunately Peter Borlaise is not the answer at tight (yet) neither is Tony Buckley (and never will be) instead of having tall props and searching abroad they should be looking at young club players for a long term solution. Also they should ask Peter Clohessy to come in as scrum coach and reintroduce some old values, like the next flanker who raises his head during an attcking scrum deserves to lose it. Leamy is not an 8. He's an out and out blind side so they should play him there. It says something about the Munster academy that they haven't produced an 8 when Leinster and Ulster have become 8 production lines.

The other major problem is in the backs, more specifically in the centres. Sam Tuitupou is not good enough. He a bosh merchant. Mafi i think is quality and is not used effectively by Munster. He reached heights when he was with Tipoki. Earls, great player and is in line to replace O driscoll. However I think it's no accident that he's failed to build an understanding with both Sam and Mafi. Mafi and Earls are probably the best combination speed, strength and guile but how they can gel I dunno.

I'm sure for munster fans it's disapointing however with the like of Scott Deasy and Ian Keatley coming on board next season, I don't think the beast, although down, is out yet.


----------



## mattie (Jan 19, 2011)

What's going on at Blues?

http://www.espnscrum.com/celticleague-2010-11/rugby/story/132679.html


----------



## flypanam (Jan 21, 2011)

Bob dwyer on Leinster http://www.bobdwyerrugby.com/english/blog.asp

Pretty good except for his confusion about Sexton. Dotage I guess.


----------



## The Boy (Feb 14, 2011)

I see Treviso beat Munster.  fair play to the cunts.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 11, 2011)

Shame that the dates clashed I would have loved to see Robbie Freuen and SBW (peace be upon him) play at the stoop ina super rugby fixture http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9419957.stm hope some fixture can be played. Good to see the Chiefs doing their usual shite, playing poorly and then playing top draw stuff, really after 7 season Fozzie has to go...


----------



## mattie (Mar 27, 2011)

Bath got a slapping from Leicester.

Well, I say slapping, the first half was actually a pretty good contest but Leicester managed to turn line breaks to tries - twice Abendanon was receiving treatment and no-one filled in at fullback, which is disappointing (although one was from quick turnover ball, surely someone's got to deal with the threat).  Credit to Leicester for identifying and exploiting it, they look shit-hot at present, not just a powerful unit up-front but creative all through the backs.  Second half they just pulled away as we gave it up as a lost cause.


----------



## starfish (Mar 27, 2011)

mattie said:


> Bath got a slapping from Leicester.
> 
> Well, I say slapping, the first half was actually a pretty good contest but Leicester managed to turn line breaks to tries - twice Abendanon was receiving treatment and no-one filled in at fullback, which is disappointing (although one was from quick turnover ball, surely someone's got to deal with the threat).  Credit to Leicester for identifying and exploiting it, they look shit-hot at present, not just a powerful unit up-front but creative all through the backs.  Second half they just pulled away as we gave it up as a lost cause.


 
It was rather painful to watch.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 29, 2011)

Another England player in trouble with the law: 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...d-row-with-taxi-driver-in-central-London.html

Obviously he hasn't messed with anyone's pool balls or sat on a train in a manner intended to cause a disturbance, so fairly low on the scale of ignominy


----------



## mattie (Mar 29, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Another England player in trouble with the law:
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...d-row-with-taxi-driver-in-central-London.html
> 
> Obviously he hasn't messed with anyone's pool balls or sat on a train in a manner intended to cause a disturbance, so fairly low on the scale of ignominy


 
At least he did it on the quiet.

In news of import, Steve Meehan is to leave Bath at the end of the season.  Extremely concerned, he's done absolute sterling work in transforming us from the early/mid2000s team of plodding incompetents into a team capable of lovely running rugby.  Not that big a surprise, never quite convinced him and Geech would work that well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/mar/29/steve-meehan-bath-rugby-union


----------



## mattie (Apr 1, 2011)

I love this time of year.

http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/137441.html


----------



## flypanam (Apr 1, 2011)

mattie said:


> I love this time of year.
> 
> http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/137441.html



Hahaha thats a good one.

The scarlets are in ravenhill tonight. With BJ and Trimble back we could be looking at the end of the scarlets title challenge!


----------



## bendeus (Apr 1, 2011)

mattie said:


> I love this time of year.
> 
> http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/137441.html


 
I wouldn't put it past them.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 5, 2011)

Oh dear. Mark Cueto's a very naughty boy, and on this evidence won't be going to the world cup: http://yfrog.com/h05ln7j

It's the holding the other hand behind the head to get greater purchase on the sockets that I find particularly cute

Didn't think he was the type, tbh, but never mind, he's shit anyway!

In other news, Gavin Henson is most definitely not shit;-)


----------



## The Boy (Apr 6, 2011)

Domingo will probably miss the WC.

Fuck.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 6, 2011)

That's bad news for your boys. I'm expecting a bizarre rash of injuries to befall Wales' key players over the next couple of weeks, also.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 7, 2011)

Here we go:







Cunt. 6 months


----------



## Mr Retro (Apr 10, 2011)

Cowardly cunt.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 12, 2011)

Mr Retro said:


> Cowardly cunt.


 
He got 9 weeks. 9. Fucking. Weeks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9448900.stm

For that ^^^

The sanctions system is a joke, and like the scrum is dragging the game down badly. If he'd been French he'd have got 6 months to a year. As he's English, and due to go to the world cup, he gets a token sentence that will probably only see him out for a few games.

I can't see how, 

a) they did not regard that as a high-end offence

and

b) they believed that there was 'compelling mitigation'. What kind of fucking compelling mitigation could there be for the repulsive act of trying to fucking blind somebody?

I'm starting to get tired of rugby. Played by twats and administered by corrupt, self-serving idiots.


----------



## mattie (Apr 12, 2011)

bendeus said:


> He got 9 weeks. 9. Fucking. Weeks.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9448900.stm
> 
> ...


 
Man up, you pansy.


----------



## mattie (Apr 12, 2011)

Sounds like David Barnes has had to retire because of a neck injury.

If true, a sad situation - but unfortunately not uncommon for front rowers.  At least he's got a bit of brains to fall back on.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> Man up, you pansy.


 
C'mon, mun. It's a farce.


----------



## mattie (Apr 13, 2011)

bendeus said:


> C'mon, mun. It's a farce.


 
Apparently, Christian Day spoke on his behalf.

"It's OK, he didn't blind me this time."

I'm more than a bit surprised that you can have mitigation for fingers in eyes.  Unless it's for accidental contact, which didn't look the case to me here.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 13, 2011)

mattie said:


> I love this time of year.
> 
> http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/137441.html


 
Is that true?. 

Some good games of hc rugby at the weekend, Toulose Biarittz was a cracker.


----------



## flypanam (Apr 13, 2011)

Gouging is way more offensive, to my mind, than some lonely depressed front rower taking sackfuls of cocaine. Gouging should result in a straight two year ban. A good ban like that would prevent wankers like Cueto and Quinlan.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 13, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Gouging is way more offensive, to my mind, than some lonely depressed front rower taking sackfuls of cocaine. Gouging should result in a straight two year ban. A good ban like that would prevent wankers like Cueto and Quinlan.


 
^^^. This

I genuinely do think that the inconsistency in application of the laws of the game are a threat to its future. If any old home union can basically invent sanctions to fit their playing season it makes a mockery of the game. Cueto should have had the book thrown at him - in a sense it was a test case for serious gouging incidents under the new IRB guidelines in England. The RFU failed the test because they are cowards and self-serving twats who are unwilling to bring down proportional sanction because the player in question is a member of the elite squad. This in spite of the fact that a player was recently blinded in one eye (during a Maidenhead match, iirc) on their patch. The IRB in turn failed the test because they didn't call the decision, thus tacitly approving of it.

In the current system, what's to stop any old union completely failing to sanction players regardless of what they do?

Ans: Fuck all, because that's what happens already.


----------



## mattie (Apr 13, 2011)

Marking your own homework is always a dangerous policy, but I'm not sure many unions would delegate control or whether it would work in practice - the French legal system seems a bit incompatible with lengthy bans, for example.


----------



## Red Faction (Apr 14, 2011)

I think one part of it is his previous good reputation, another is the 'victim' saying nothing untowards happenned (this time)
and also the fact that they lost Dylan Hartley from the previous WC squad over gouging and didnt fancy losing another squad player from this one.
The TV replay does look pretty damning.

On a similar note- Alan Quinlan announces he is to retire from Munster at the end of the season.

Quite an eventful career.  Over 200 Munster caps, overlooked by Ireland on too many occasions- only 27 or so international caps to his name and 
disappointingly, failed to crown his career with a much deserved lions tour, because he was serving a suspension for gouging.  Leo Cullen i think it was.

:-(

Phenomenal performance by Toulouse to beat Biarritz.

I'm backing Leinster all the way to the final, but would quite like to see them robbed by some other chancers.  Not too fussed who.


----------



## flypanam (Apr 15, 2011)

Red Faction said:


> I'm backing Leinster all the way to the final, but would quite like to see them robbed by some other chancers.  Not too fussed who.



Have to admit I don't understand the 'rivalry' between Munster and Leinster fans. We are small country, historically very shit at rugby so any success by any of the sides should be celebrated.


----------



## Red Faction (Apr 18, 2011)

It is celebrated- upto a point. I want them to do well, without having to listen to them gloating.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 18, 2011)

bendeus said:


> In other news, Gavin Henson is most definitely not shit;-)


 
Bring him to the WC, what's the worst that could happen!


----------



## mattie (Apr 19, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Bring him to the WC, what's the worst that could happen!


 
He certainly has a way with people.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 19, 2011)

Ach!  A harmless bout of hijinks!


----------



## flypanam (Apr 19, 2011)

The REAL Prince of Wales probably only wanted a can of Brains...but was told to stick to that godawful lemonstuff they drink down there. Poor guy


----------



## bendeus (Apr 19, 2011)

Rumours are swirling around, but the smart money is on his insulting either Wilkinson, Van Niekirk, or both, and then having a bit of a rumpus with Henjak.

What a fucking plum


----------



## The Boy (Apr 19, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Rumours are swirling around, but the smart money is on his insulting either Wilkinson, Van Niekirk, or both, and then having a bit of a rumpus with Henjak.
> 
> What a fucking plum


 
RUgbyrama saying it was several players, so probably all of those mentioned.


----------



## mattie (Apr 21, 2011)

Sort of funny:
http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2010-11/rugby/story/138590.html

Wales' finest is unlikely to be missed.


Sad to see:
http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_6888124,00.html

Harrow's finest will be missed.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 21, 2011)

Meanwhile, in other more wholesome, but fucking sad news, Tom 'Mattie's Saes Chum' Shanklin has retired due to injury.

A fucking wonderful player, double grandslam winner and would have been a double test Lio,n at the very least,  if it wasn't for his cruel luck with injuries.

Consistenly one of the best Welsh backs over the last decade, always gave his all, and always bounced back when he'd been written off. We'll miss ya, Shanks.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 21, 2011)

mattie said:


> Sad to see:
> http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_6888124,00.html
> 
> Harrow's finest will be missed.



Missed that


----------



## Red Faction (Apr 24, 2011)

*Missed opportunity for the Ospreys?*

Sure they won a grand slam or two, and they all regularly beat England in the 6 nations.  What Warren Gatland managed in one season, Lyn Jones has failed to deliver over several.

They've got a stellar squad from 1-15, but what will happen next season?

Clermont Auvergne have managed to sign arguably the best full back in the nortern hemisphere, Lee Byrne.

James Hook is due to leave for Perpignan (one of the best towns to travel to as an away supporter btw) 

And Jerry Collins is also moving on back to the southern hemisphere.

Phillips, Holah and Mitchell are among others joining the exodus.

While many have signed new deals- notably Shane Williams who has signed a 2 year deal with a view to ending his rugby career at the Os, have their golden generation missed their chance to bring the Heineken Cup to the valleys, and will the region have the chance to do this again any time soon?


----------



## mattie (Apr 26, 2011)

Henson sacked by Toulon.

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_6897985,00.html

It isn't even funny any more.  What a waste.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 26, 2011)

Red Faction said:


> Clermont Auvergne have managed to sign arguably the best full back in the nortern hemisphere, Lee Byrne.


What?


----------



## flypanam (Apr 28, 2011)

Seconded! Medard?


----------



## mattie (Apr 28, 2011)

Abendonan.

*coughs*

OK, maybe Foden.


----------



## flypanam (Apr 28, 2011)

mattie said:


> Abendonan.
> 
> *coughs*
> 
> OK, maybe Foden.



Hahahahahahaha Mattie you are a joker!


----------



## bendeus (Apr 28, 2011)

Thirded. On current form, Byrne is way, way down the pecking order in the NH. I would say he is languishing in fourth or fifth place at present - too many fucking brainfarts to be competing at the top level. Lee hasn't rediscovered his pre-Lions tour form since, though his last few international appearances do give some cause for optimism.


----------



## mattie (Apr 28, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Hahahahahahaha Mattie you are a joker!



You're not seriously saying Armitage is better than Foden?


----------



## starfish (Apr 28, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Thirded. On current form, Byrne is way, way down the pecking order in the NH. I would say he is languishing in fourth or fifth place at present - too many fucking brainfarts to be competing at the top level. Lee hasn't rediscovered his pre-Lions tour form since, though his last few international appearances do give some cause for optimism.


 
He's probably still above Southwell though


----------



## bendeus (Apr 29, 2011)

starfish said:


> He's probably still above Southwell though



Well, yes. Southwell is a most excellent mediocre-comedy fullback. The difference he made when he went off after headbutting Lee Byrne's foot in our latest 6N clash was incredible.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 29, 2011)

Red Faction said:


> Sure they won a grand slam or two, and they all regularly beat England in the 6 nations.  What Warren Gatland managed in one season, Lyn Jones has failed to deliver over several.
> 
> They've got a stellar squad from 1-15, but what will happen next season?
> 
> ...


 
RF. I actually responded to this in some length from my phone, and then deleted the fucking thing as I sent. I obviously pointed out that Lyn Jones isn't our coach any more, and Lee Byrne is bobbins, and best gotten rid of, but............

An abbreviated version of the post is that, yes, the Os are currently shit, and, yes, they are about to lose some of their most high-profile players, and that, theoretically, this will weaken them.

I reckon this may not be the case as,

a) Spikey Pikey Mikey is being shipped out. Scott Johnson (for he is the coach) is more interested in intelligent scrum halves who can move the ball and act as a decision maker. Os have recruited such a player in Kahn Fotual'i from the Crusaders
b) They are trying to thin out the number of team Wales regulars in their side, especially amongst the backs. Constant call ups to the 6N, AIs (and WC) destroy squad continuity and cohesion. They are effectively trying to play with three sides (ML normal, HEC and ML minus team Wales), and this is fucking up the gameplan. New policy is to recruit players who, while not stellar, can do a job and function within a system. I would say that the relative success of teams like Leicester and Munster (cheating aside) would attest to the success of this policy
c) They have some fantastic young talent coming through, who, with the right guidance, will blossom amongst more experienced campaigners - Tipuric, for example, will ably fill the gap that Holah left.
d) The huge amount off the wage bill will allow them to recruit effectively. Rumour has it that Mils Muliaina is fairly nailed on for next season.
e) They may have got rid of the glory boys in the backs, but that pack still has serious steel and is a well-established unit. The tight five speak for themselves, perhaps even more so now that Duncan has returned to form and fitness, and that Paul James is now an international front row player of some calibre. Ian Evans is returning slowly to fitness, and Ryan Jones has had his best season for around three years. Bearman will add carrying to that setup. Pack will not be weakened, IMO.

End of the day, Scott Johnson failed this year, and has obviously managed to convice the board that the failure is on the part of the players and the demands made on the team by Wales. He has one season to try his experiment of using seasoned, if unspectacular, players to gel the kids and the Lions (remember we still have Shane and Bowe in that backline, and possibly Mils, plus far more depth in the squad than we ever had).

Me, I don't know. I haven't been to the Library once this season. Regional rugby in Wales has been one long, depressive nosedive. I can see the logic of what they're trying to do, and I reckon they're right to do it. I also think that a season is a short amount of time to turn the ship around, and that crowds, who are already on the wane, won't stand for much more shite for much longer, and that fewer 'names' are unlikely to bring more people through the turnstiles. Saying that, though, people go to see teams who are winning, and just maybe the Os are capable of starting to do that.

11/12 is going to be pivotal in the development of the region. Fuck up, and that could really cause some damage. Start to win, and who knows..............

This didn't turn out to be so abbreviated, did it?


----------



## junglevip (Apr 30, 2011)

.


----------



## mattie (May 1, 2011)

I usually just post the Bath forum rumours up here for a laugh, but there's a serious amount of chatter going on around who's coming in at 10 (Butch James has been released a year early to try to get a WC place through a SA franchise).

Dan Carter.  Righty-ho.  Quaid Cooper. Danny Cipriani.

Or, perhaps more likely, Derick Hougaard.

I remain surprised we didn't try for Charlie Hodgson.


----------



## junglevip (May 1, 2011)

Henson is looking for a club


----------



## mattie (May 2, 2011)

junglevip said:


> Henson is looking for a club


 
Thankfully not:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/9465489.stm

I'd gladly take someone with that ability, but not the baggage that comes with that particular instance.  Cipriani looks to have improved his behaviour a bit, but still uncomfortable with relying on him not acting the twat again.  I mention this as there was some talk of Bath going after Cipriani, it now looks like he might have a bit of time at Toulon.  Which may or may not be alongside Henson, depending whether he goes to the World Cup or not.  Saint-Andre will have his work cut out.


----------



## junglevip (May 2, 2011)

I am pleased about the Henson news.  What were his options NG dragons?  I know they are playing well and I have seen some cracking games from them at Rodney, but I think he should be playing at a higher level week in week out.  Cipriani is an even bigger liability if you asked me and not as good a player.

I am a fan of Henson but I am growing tired of his antics.


----------



## mattie (May 2, 2011)

junglevip said:


> I am pleased about the Henson news.  What were his options NG dragons?  I know they are playing well and I have seen some cracking games from them at Rodney, but I think he should be playing at a higher level week in week out.  Cipriani is an even bigger liability if you asked me and not as good a player.
> 
> I am a fan of Henson but I am growing tired of his antics.


 
The biggest liability with Cipriani is his defence, which you'd certainly never say of Henson.  

In terms of attitude, Henson 'wins' that competition hands-down.  It's like he tries to alienate people.

As attacking threats, both are excellent players, which is why there will always be fans' interest in them and why they're often in the spotlight.  People waxed lyrical about Jason Robinson, not Richard Hill.  Cipriani let it go to his head but a stiff right-hand from Josh Lewsey and a few steely words from Martin Johnson seem to have had some effect.  Henson really needs to get his head down and play.  

Apparently Kyle Eastmond is playing for St Helens today, might try to catch a bit of it to see what Bath have landed for next season.


----------



## bendeus (May 3, 2011)

Henson is staying at Toulon.

There are two possible reasons I can see for this. One is that the charges against him were overblown and distorted, and that he didn't have much of a case to answer as soon as they started digging into the facts (Henjak, for example, has plenty of previous, was pretty much chucked out of Aussie rugby for breaking someone's jaw, and by all accounts was the person who threw the first punch). The other is that Toulon need him now that it looks like they're going to be in the playoffs.

Somewhere out there lies the troot


----------



## bendeus (May 3, 2011)

junglevip said:


> I am pleased about the Henson news.  What were his options NG dragons?  I know they are playing well and I have seen some cracking games from them at Rodney, but I think he should be playing at a higher level week in week out.



Sorry mate, missed that. Agreed that the Dragons were not the best destination for a player of his calibre, and nor do they have the kind of money he would command. I wonder if, given their 50% ownership by the WRU, it was not being discussed as a possible first Welsh central contract in all but name. It's no secret that both Gatland and the WRU have a semi for the boy, and I can't imagine them not wanting him to be at the WC. Anyway, it's academic now.



> Cipriani is an even bigger liability if you asked me and not as good a player.



Correct on both counts. 'Cips' ain't fit to lace the orange one's boots.



> I am a fan of Henson but I am growing tired of his antics.



Completely know what you mean if half the stuff that has been flung at him has any basis in reality. I wish I knew what the latest set of 'antics' entailed, though. I do wonder whether it's yet another storm in a teacup, and not in any great degree of his own making - appreciate the rumours I posted previously may seem contradictory, but that's all they ever were: rumours.


----------



## bendeus (May 3, 2011)

mattie said:


> The biggest liability with Cipriani is his defence, which you'd certainly never say of Henson.
> 
> .



I'd say his flakiness under pressure is every bit as much of a liability as his speedbumpery.


----------



## bendeus (May 3, 2011)

A top bloke is Jonny Wilkinson. Absolute diamond.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...feelings-between-Toulon-and-Gavin-Henson.html




			
				Torygraph said:
			
		

> One of the causes of the late-night bust-up was reputedly critical comments made about Wilkinson, Henson supposedly taking issue with the notion that the England fly-half was the best player in the world.
> 
> “It hasn’t affected me at all,” said Wilkinson after morning training. “Gavin said to the guys that that wasn’t the true Gavin speaking. He showed his true feelings to us and said that he was sorry. The perpetrator in it all was drink, I guess.






			
				Jonny Jeebus said:
			
		

> "I’ve spent good times with Gavin here, enjoyed training with him. As for the remarks [attributed to Henson], well, then he wouldn’t be the only person thinking like that round the world, and rightly so. *I’ve always said that I get too much praise.*”



There really is little to fault in terms of his attitude, his application or his achievements, is there?


----------



## junglevip (May 4, 2011)

Johny is the biz.  I watched some of his tackles on Scrum V, Eddie Buttler highlighted them; 'tackles like the crack of doom'.  Cipriani is not fit to lace his boots, I think he is worse than Henson just for the pettiness.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/13268069.stm


----------



## flypanam (May 4, 2011)

mattie said:


> You're not seriously saying Armitage is better than Foden?



Mattie I'm not. I think Foden is great player (best full back in the premiership) and I can't wait for a great tussle with Nacewa in HC Final. However Foden is not in the NH top three full backs.

However Kyle Eastman is some player some score by Bath even if he does play for the Saints scum!


----------



## bendeus (May 4, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Mattie I'm not. I think Foden is great player (best full back in the premiership) and I can't wait for a great tussle with Nacewa in HC Final. However Foden is not in the NH top three full backs.


 
No. According to John Inverdale he is teh best fullback in teh world. Evah.


----------



## flypanam (May 5, 2011)

bendeus said:


> No. According to John Inverdale he is teh best fullback in teh world. Evah.



Awww shame on you bendus John Inverdale is 'World class', his world class pronouncements on the 'World Class' Foden, and other 'World class' 6 nations players will be what is inscribed on my tomb!


----------



## bendeus (May 5, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Awww shame on you bendus John Inverdale is 'World class', his world class pronouncements on the 'World Class' Foden, and other 'World class' England players



Fixed



> will be what is inscribed on my tomb!



Then you will surely be spending the afterlife in the pit of eternal damnation!


----------



## flypanam (May 5, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Then you will surely be spending the afterlife in the pit of eternal damnation!



Yeah man, partying with Norm Hewitt, Serge Blanco, John Pierre Reves, Danny Cipriani, Tana Umaga and Gav! Hell Rocks!

Andy Powell too!


----------



## bendeus (May 5, 2011)

And Mark Ring and Campo!


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

In fact, what we need here is a world wronguns XV. Only caveat is that they have to have been capped. I'll start, but feel free to fill yer boots:

15-
14- 
13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
12-
10- Quade Cooper (burglary)
9-
11
1-
2-
3- Matt Stevens (coke)
4-
5-
6-
7-
8- Mongo (golf buggies, inciting hoolies)

I've just noticed that these are all contemporary wronguns. Perhaps we could do with some wronguns of the past to even things out.....


----------



## flypanam (May 6, 2011)

2 - Andrew Hore (seal killer)
14 - Wendal Sailor (Coke)

Replacement - Lawrence Dallaglio (drug dealing)


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

flypanam said:


> 14 - Wendal Sailor (Coke)
> 
> Replacement - Lawrence Dallaglio (drug dealing)


 
You could put LOL at 6. I'm tempted to shoehorn Maad Dougie Howlett in there somewhere, tbh, and what about Trevor Brennan?

15-
14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
12-
10- Quade Cooper (burglary)
9-
11
1-
2-
3- Matt Stevens (coke)
4-
5-
6- Dallaglio (drug dealing)
7-
8- Mongo (golf buggies, inciting hoolies)


----------



## flypanam (May 6, 2011)

Brennan - oh most def what kind of cunt actually jumps into the crowd and punches some bloke because, he comments that the beer in your pub is shite, which is true. Comments on various sexual prediclictions of your mother or wife. 

Throw him in!


----------



## flypanam (May 6, 2011)

And Marc Cacillion (wife shooting)

http://danpritchard.com/wiki/Marc_Cécillon

It seems all the bad boys are 8's, no idea whose been a bad scrum half unless Danny Care, counts and the whole Auckland rape*/spit roasting thing counts

* it wasn't rape.


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

bendeus said:


> You could put LOL at 6. I'm tempted to shoehorn Maad Dougie Howlett in there somewhere, tbh, and what about Trevor Brennan?
> 
> 15-
> 14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
> ...


 
.


----------



## flypanam (May 6, 2011)

Gower what a legend, was all this was in Italy?


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

15-
14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
12- Craig Gower (public exposure to tourists, sexual assault, vomiting on people, theft and crashing of a golf buggy, threatening radio presenters with a butter knife, biting a man on the neck after trying to kiss him, etc, etc.) This guy sets the benchmark
10- Quade Cooper (burglary)
9-
11
1-
2- Trevor Brennan (assulting crowd members)
3- Matt Stevens (coke)
4-
5-
6- Dallaglio (drug dealing)
7-
8- Marc Cecillion (wife shooting)

I've had to drop Mongo to the bench.


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Gower what a legend, was all this was in Italy?


 
Click the link. It's fucking hilarious.


----------



## flypanam (May 6, 2011)

Hahahahahahahaha worth posting in full. He's fucking awesome!


In 1999, Gower exposed himself to a female Irish tourist in a Coogee bar, blaming his behaviour on alcohol intoxication. He was dumped from the Kangaroos squad and fined $2,500 by the NRL and a further $500 in court after pleading guilty to indecent exposure.

Gower was fired as Panthers captain in December 2005,[7] after incidents at a charity golf event where he argued with several guests, groped the teenage daughter of former league player Wayne Pearce, chased Pearce's son with a bottle before vomiting on him, streaked nude around the resort, stole and crashed a golf cart, held a butter knife [8] to the throat of a Sydney radio personality before throwing it at resort guests, and engaged in a brawl with resort security before being ejected from the official function and detained by police.[9] Gower was handed a "final warning" by the National Rugby League and fined $100,000, with $90,000 to be paid to an NRL programme encouraging the responsible use of alcohol by league players and $10,000 to replace the destroyed golf cart.[10] Gower was "deeply unhappy" that the Penrith Panthers club did not defend his reputation, and at one stage threatened to "walk" from the club.[11]

Allegedly inebriated with alcohol in a bar at Kings Cross on 11 February 2007, Gower allegedly tried to kiss one man before biting him on the neck and sparking a brawl, and is accused of assaulting another man.[12][13] The Panthers club controversially reappointed Gower as captain in 2007, claiming the Peppermint Lounge incident was just a media "beat-up".[14]

Australian swimmer Dawn Fraser said Gower was unfit to be captain, due to his alleged lewd behaviour at the charity golf event which she attended,[15] and Sarah Maddison, spokesperson for the Women's Electoral Lobby, said "reappointing Craig Gower would send all the wrong messages


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Hahahahahahahaha worth posting in full. He's fucking awesome!
> 
> 
> In 1999, Gower exposed himself to a female Irish tourist in a Coogee bar, blaming his behaviour on alcohol intoxication. He was dumped from the Kangaroos squad and fined $2,500 by the NRL and a further $500 in court after pleading guilty to indecent exposure.
> ...


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 6, 2011)

Surely Rog gets a look in at 10. molestation, alleged gambling debts, dissing the Queen?


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Surely Rog gets a look in at 10. molestation, alleged gambling debts, dissing the Queen?


 
He absolutely does. I'm not sure he's done enough to supplant Cooper and Gower, though. Just like the Lions tour - always the bridesmaid is our ROG


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

I'm also tempted to add Danny Grewcock for long-term services to utter cuntery. He hasn't actually got a record off the pitch, afaik, but he's certainly got one on it. Ditto utter wanker, Dylan Hartley.


----------



## mattie (May 6, 2011)

bendeus said:


> *I'm also tempted to add Danny Grewcock for long-term services to utter cuntery. He hasn't actually got a record off the pitch, afaik, but he's certainly got one on it.* Ditto utter wanker, Dylan Hartley.



Someone's looking for some buttons to press.

Who's that saffa who hacked his daughters' rapists to pieces?  Was he capped?


----------



## junglevip (May 6, 2011)

Scarlets played well, Blues predictable and laboured great game to watch mind.  I just hope that XR is ok


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

mattie said:


> Someone's looking for some buttons to press.
> 
> Who's that saffa who hacked his daughters' rapists to pieces?  Was he capped?



Nah. Sadly not.

Grewcock, though. Bit of a cunt, right?


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

junglevip said:


> Scarlets played well, Blues predictable and laboured great game to watch mind.  I just hope that XR is ok



Dan. Fucking. Parks.

O's implosion continues with their embarrasingly scraped win against the mighty Aironi. Something is badly wrong in Llandarcy; I can only imagine there's some internal nastiness pustulating away.


----------



## bendeus (May 6, 2011)

You bastards are no help at all

15- Danny Cipriani (petty larceny - vodka)
14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
12- Craig Gower (public exposure to tourists, sexual assault, vomiting on people, theft and crashing of a golf buggy, threatening radio presenters with a butter knife, biting a man on the neck after trying to kiss him, etc, etc.) This guy sets the benchmark
10- Quade Cooper (burglary)
9-
11- Maad Dougie Howlett (Car and hotel trashing)
1-
2- Trevor Brennan (assulting crowd members)
3- Matt Stevens (coke)
4- Danny Grewcock (consistent twuntery)
5-
6- Dallaglio (drug dealing)
7-
8- Marc Cecillion (wife shooting)


----------



## junglevip (May 6, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Dan. Fucking. Parks.
> 
> O's implosion continues with their embarrasingly scraped win against the mighty Aironi. Something is badly wrong in Llandarcy; I can only imagine there's some internal nastiness pustulating away.


 
Dan parks, good kicker, poor play-maker I am disappointed with JR.  It would be nice to see him run through a gap not a player now and again.

Ospreys, believe their own press and are casual (the so called stars anyway) I am not sure about the management structure down there, baffling.  Unless the 'stronger' regions play with a cutting edge, the national team will be ordinary


----------



## mattie (May 7, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Nah. Sadly not.
> 
> Grewcock, though. Bit of a cunt, right?


 
Er, no.  Likes a bit of biff, but takes what he gives.



Delon Armitage is really beginning to piss me off, he's turning into a stroppy little bitch.


----------



## flypanam (May 7, 2011)

Hooker bad ones...

Andreew Hore (public bust ups and killing seals)
Terry Kingston (fanatsies about wanking over his sister, and making it public)*

Neil Best - (beating up team mates in a taxi)

*This may not be true but mates of mine back home, tell it and certainly believe it.


----------



## bendeus (May 8, 2011)

mattie said:


> Er, no.  Likes a bit of biff, but takes what he gives.



Funny. Everything I've ever seen of him confirms him as a thuggish cheap-shot merchant.


----------



## mattie (May 8, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Funny. Everything I've ever seen of him confirms him as a thuggish cheap-shot merchant.


 
Three games this season he's emerged from a ruck with a bleeding nose and his scrum-cap in an opponent's hand.  Not once has he done anything other than smash the shit out of them in the next tackle.

In saying that, he has been known to take summary justice quite some distance beyond what is acceptable.  On the other hand, he has taken quite a bit of the silver slipper without whinging.


----------



## starfish (May 8, 2011)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/7968573/South-African-prop-charged-with-murdering-police-officer.html

Another Saffa nutter, but i dont think hes been capped.

If theres still place in the front row then surely Richard Loe's got to be in with a shout.


----------



## mattie (May 9, 2011)

Cipriani nails his starting jersey in the team of tits.

http://www.planet-rugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_6923164,00.html

Good work.


----------



## gabi (May 9, 2011)

Gower was a league player wasn't he? not sure he can qualify. If he does then can i nominate john 'the ringmaster' hopoate...



> During a 2001 clash with the Cowboys, Hopoate, in an attempt to unsettle several of his opponents, inserted his finger in three players' anuses, the first occurring during the seventh minute of play. At the conclusion of the match the matter was immediately referred to the rugby league judiciary where a case was put forward from both sides on 28 March.
> 
> Hopoate claimed in front of the panel of judges that he was simply attempting to give all three players "a wedgie" with his fingers, denying he had done anything wrong and that he was "a great believer in what happens on the field should stay there".[5]
> 
> The three victims in the case, Cowboys players Glenn Morrison, Peter Jones and Paul Bowman all disagreed with the reasoning put forward by Hopoate and his team. Jones stated, "It wasn't a wedgie. That's when your pants are pulled up your arse. I think I know the difference between a wedgie and someone sticking their finger up my bum", while Bowman stated that he was "disgusted" and "couldn't believe it."[6]


----------



## Teaboy (May 9, 2011)

mattie said:


> Delon Armitage is really beginning to piss me off, he's turning into a stroppy little bitch.


 
As an exiles fan I can confirm that he has always been that way inclined.  I've lost count of the times I've seen him throw the rattle out of the pram for no good reason at all.  

We showed some interest in Henson when he wanted to move to a 'London' based club, I couldnt even contemplate having Henson, Armitage and Ryan Lamb in the same team, would there ever have been a cockyer (yet never actually consistantly performing) row of backs?


----------



## mattie (May 9, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> As an exiles fan I can confirm that he has always been that way inclined.  I've lost count of the times I've seen him throw the rattle out of the pram for no good reason at all.
> 
> We showed some interest in Henson when he wanted to move to a 'London' based club, I couldnt even contemplate having Henson, Armitage and Ryan Lamb in the same team, would there ever have been a cockyer (yet never actually consistantly performing) row of backs?



I don't get why he does it, flounces and pouts like a schoolboy.  He's an excellent player, and it distracts him from actually playing.

Henson will be playing for Wales against the Barbarians.  I'll be interested to see how he gets on.


----------



## bendeus (May 9, 2011)

mattie said:


> I don't get why he does it, flounces and pouts like a schoolboy.  He's an excellent player, and it distracts him from actually playing.
> 
> Henson will be playing for Wales against the Barbarians.  I'll be interested to see how he gets on.


 
Very well, I'd imagine.


----------



## mattie (May 10, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Very well, I'd imagine.


 
He'll positively glow.  And shimmer, and shine.


----------



## Teaboy (May 10, 2011)

mattie said:


> I don't get why he does it, flounces and pouts like a schoolboy.  He's an excellent player, and it distracts him from actually playing.


 
He's a very talented rugby player, sadly he has the attitude of a Premiership footballer.

Anyway now that Corbisiero made a decent job of replacing Sheridan we've reached our maximum allowance of one exile player in the England team.  Armitage will have to wait in the wings for England.

I'm convinced that there is some rule which applies to teams like L.Irish and Gloucester that no matter where they finish in the league only one player at a time can be considered for an England place.  Don't play for Leicester, Northampton or Bath?  Its the Saxons for you!


----------



## bendeus (May 10, 2011)

mattie said:


> He'll positively glow.  And shimmer, and shine.


----------



## bendeus (May 10, 2011)

In all seriousness, Wales with Gav at 12 will look a very different proposition to one with Jamie 'route one' Roberts. It will free up Wellies to do what he does, and help to bring our suddenly dynamic backrow in to play (wait to see Faletau; he's the real deal), as well as Shane and North cutting in and looking for work. No more dying with the ball in hand.

Expect an improvement in defence as well.

Even a half-baked Henson is better than what we currently have available.


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 10, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Even a half-baked Henson is better than what we currently have available.


Is it that bad?. He's missed so much rugby he could be a liability. How must the other players feel when he gets a chance?.


----------



## junglevip (May 10, 2011)

He's a natural, just look at that try he scored for Toulon.  Jon Davies has a bit of it but he has'nt the nasty streak that Gav has to give him that edge


----------



## bendeus (May 11, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Is it that bad?. He's missed so much rugby he could be a liability. How must the other players feel when he gets a chance?.


 
It's actually worse. Wales are impotent without a playing 12. We don't score tries, we panic in possession, and we leak tries. I don't give a monkey''s cuss what Roberts or Bishop must feel about Gav's inclusion, 'cos neither can do what he can do in a Welsh shirt with a 12 on the back.


----------



## junglevip (May 11, 2011)

And they know it... .. .


----------



## flypanam (May 11, 2011)

As there is no World Cup thread just yet I'll post up the provisional French Squad. It seems that Livermont has done something sensible and left out Seabass.

Provisional France squad for the 2011 World Cup in New Zealand: 

Backs: M Parra (Clermont Auvergne), D Yachvili (Biarritz), F Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), D Skrela (Toulouse), F Estebanez (Brive), D Marty (Perpignan), M Mermoz (Perpignan), A Rougerie (Clermont Auvergne), D Traille (Biarritz), V Clerc (Toulouse), C Heymans (Toulouse), Y Huget (Bayonne), M Medard (Toulouse), A Palisson (Brive).

Forwards: F Barcella (Biarritz); T Domingo (Clermont Auvergne), L Ducalcon (Castres), N Mas (Perpignan), S Marconnet (Stade Francais), J B Poux (Toulouse), W Servat (Toulouse), D Szarzewski (Stade Francais), L Nallet (Racing Metro), J Pierre (Clermont Auvergne), R Millo-Chluski (Toulouse), P Pape (Stade Francais), J Bonnaire (Clermont Auvergne), T Dusautoir (Toulouse, capt), I Harinordoquy(Biarritz), R Lakafia (Biarritz), F Ouedraogo (Montpellier), L Picamoles (Toulouse).


----------



## flypanam (May 11, 2011)

P.s Have we finished with the First XV nutters of rugby yet? I want to see that team in the World Cup!


----------



## bendeus (May 11, 2011)

flypanam said:


> P.s Have we finished with the First XV nutters of rugby yet? I want to see that team in the World Cup!


 

15- Danny Cipriani (petty larceny - vodka)
14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
12- Craig Gower (public exposure to tourists, sexual assault, vomiting on people, theft and crashing of a golf buggy, threatening radio presenters with a butter knife, biting a man on the neck after trying to kiss him, etc, etc.) This guy sets the benchmark
10- Quade Cooper (burglary)
9-
11- Maad Dougie Howlett (Car and hotel trashing)
1- Loe (all-round scary bastard)
2- Trevor Brennan (assulting crowd members)
3- Matt Stevens (coke)
4- Danny Grewcock (consistent twuntery)
5-
6- Dallaglio (drug dealing)
7-
8- Marc Cecillion (wife shooting) 

Almost there, mate. Just need a 9, a 5 and a 7. 

9 should be easy given that scrum halves are the biggest cnuts on a pitch in the main, but a real standout eludes me.


----------



## mattie (May 11, 2011)

I can't believe you've still got Grewcock in there.  Madness.

I'm surprised no-one's nominated Back - at both 7 and 9.


----------



## The Boy (May 11, 2011)

bendeus said:


> 9 should be easy given that scrum halves are the biggest cnuts on a pitch in the main, but a real standout eludes me.


 
Dupuy?  Took two attempts at someone's eye.  Struggling to think of any who are guilty of blatant off-pitch shenanigans


----------



## The Boy (May 11, 2011)

Also, he played at 6 rather than 7, but is there any way we can shoehorn Armand Vaquerin in somehow?  Died in a game of Russian roulette - that's got be worth something, doesn't it?


----------



## junglevip (May 11, 2011)

> *12- Craig Gower *(public exposure to tourists, sexual assault, vomiting on people, theft and crashing of a golf buggy, threatening radio presenters with a butter knife, biting a man on the neck after trying to kiss him, etc, etc.) This guy sets the benchmark



Does this mean he will be team captain?


----------



## junglevip (May 11, 2011)

The Boy said:


> Also, he played at 6 rather than 7, but is there any way we can shoehorn Armand Vaquerin in somehow?  Died in a game of Russian roulette - that's got be worth something, doesn't it?


 
I think being dead might disqualify you from selection, just a thought


----------



## bendeus (May 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> I can't believe you've still got Grewcock in there.  Madness.
> 
> I'm surprised no-one's nominated Back - at both 7 and 9.


 
Danny G has a bit of a bad rep thus side if the border, but he's only there as a stopgap till we find someone nastier. I can't believe we don't have a single Boer, apartheid era or otherwise, in that XV. They're the nastieat bastards of them all.


----------



## bendeus (May 11, 2011)

The Boy said:


> Dupuy?  Took two attempts at someone's eye.  Struggling to think of any who are guilty of blatant off-pitch shenanigans


 
I think we'd have to start a foul play XV for the likes of Dupuy, Quinlan et al.


----------



## bendeus (May 11, 2011)

junglevip said:


> Does this mean he will be team captain?


 
Him or Cecillion, right?


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 11, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Danny G has a bit of a bad rep thus side if the border, but he's only there as a stopgap till we find someone nastier. I can't believe we don't have a single Boer, apartheid era or otherwise, in that XV. They're the nastieat bastards of them all.


 
Geo Cronje?


----------



## mattie (May 11, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Geo Cronje?


 
Is he the prick with the big beard who refused to room with black team mates?


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> Is he the prick with the big beard who refused to room with black team mates?


 
Or use the same bathroom, toilet or shower.


----------



## mattie (May 11, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Or use the same bathroom, toilet or shower.


 
Nice.

Have we included the saffa who hacked up his daughter's rapists with an axe?  I thought I'd mentioned it, but can't see where I did.  A certain sympathy for him, but there's ways and means.


----------



## bendeus (May 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> Nice.
> 
> Have we included the saffa who hacked up his daughter's rapists with an axe?  I thought I'd mentioned it, but can't see where I did.  A certain sympathy for him, but there's ways and means.


 
Uncapped. There also appears to be a countervailing account that his daughter hadn't been raped at all and that the hacking was just for fun.


----------



## bendeus (May 11, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Or use the same bathroom, toilet or shower.


 
Sounds a cert. What position?


----------



## flypanam (May 12, 2011)

If there is too much uproar about Grewcock we could always put the real Bath Bruiser in Ollie 'Don't call me sweetlips' Barkley. Punching someone out at a wedding (i think) classy guy. Prosecuted too?


----------



## flypanam (May 12, 2011)

This could be the Saffa we're looking for James Dalton an ex Springbok hooker 

"Dalton handed himself over to police on November 23 last year after his wife, Andrea, alleged he tried to kill her. She claimed the 35-year-old accused from Silver Lakes attempted to drown her in a bath and tried to smother her with a dress."

Case seems to have been dropped after the complainent 'dissappeared.' Very Alf Stewart.

http://mg.co.za/article/2008-02-04-dalton-case-struck-from-the-roll


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

flypanam said:


> If there is too much uproar about Grewcock we could always put the real Bath Bruiser in Ollie 'Don't call me sweetlips' Barkley. Punching someone out at a wedding (i think) classy guy. Prosecuted too?


 
He can play 10 or 12, right? Can't see him supplanting Gower or Cooper on that form. Rather like his real life abilities, his badboy status is GP level rather than international.


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

Ok. So we've got our extra lock, and I've shoved Henson's nemesis, Matt Henjak in at 9. Have a look at this: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ocked-rugby-892342.html?action=Gallery&ino=11

Have also dropped Brennan to the bench, as trying to kill your wife is, IMO, a far more heinous bit of skulduggery. We really have had few bothers filling the number two shirt, have we?

15- Danny Cipriani (petty larceny - vodka)
14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
12- Craig Gower (public exposure to tourists, sexual assault, vomiting on people, theft and crashing of a golf buggy, threatening radio presenters with a butter knife, biting a man on the neck after trying to kiss him, etc, etc.) This guy sets the benchmark
10- Quade Cooper (burglary)
9- Matt Henjak (breaking a defenceless teammate's jaw in an unprovoked attack)
11- Maad Dougie Howlett (Car and hotel trashing)
1- Loe (all-round scary bastard)
2- James Dalton (attempted wife drowning)
3- Matt Stevens (coke)
4- Danny Grewcock (consistent twuntery)
5- Geo Cronje (vicious, racist cunt)
6- Dallaglio (drug dealing)
7-
8- Marc Cecillion (wife shooting) 

So we're just missing an openside and a possible replacement for Grewcock. Anybody notice that the Aussies are disproportionately represented, and that all of them used to play league


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

15- Danny Cipriani (petty larceny - vodka)
14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
12- Craig Gower (public exposure to tourists, sexual assault, vomiting on people, theft and crashing of a golf buggy, threatening radio presenters with a butter knife, biting a man on the neck after trying to kiss him, etc, etc.) This guy sets the benchmark
10- Quade Cooper (burglary)
9- Matt Henjak (breaking a defenceless teammate's jaw in an unprovoked attack)
11- Maad Dougie Howlett (Car and hotel trashing)
1- Loe (all-round scary bastard)
2- James Dalton (attempted wife drowning)
3- Matt Stevens (coke)
4- Danny Grewcock (consistent twuntery)
5- Geo Cronje (vicious, racist cunt)
6- Mongo (Golf buggy theft and drunk driving, provoking hoolies)
7- Dallaglio (drug dealing)
8- Marc Cecillion (wife shooting) 

Bingo! Dallaglio has played openside, so we shift him across and bring Mongo in at 6. Simples.


----------



## flypanam (May 12, 2011)

More for the  pot

Springboks player James Small is alleged to have called star winger and team mate Chester Williams a 'fucking kaffir' and demanded to know why he wanted to "play our game? "You know you can't play it".

In 2002 Rodney So'oialo was found guilty of Benefit Fraud

Joost van der Westhuizen. The former Springboks captain was sacked from his job as a presenter for SuperSport after he admitted lying about his role in a sex video, which also showed him snorting 'recreational chemicals'. vd Westhuizen would later apologise to the public and his wife


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Uncapped. There also appears to be a countervailing account that his daughter hadn't been raped at all and that the hacking was just for fun.


 
He played U21s though, and hacking people up with axes is a pretty strong shout for promotion to the full team.

(I'm not sure I would use the epxression 'for fun', he's apparently had a history of mental illness.  Basically, a proper front-rower)


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

flypanam said:


> More for the  pot
> 
> Springboks player James Small is alleged to have called star winger and team mate Chester Williams a 'fucking kaffir' and demanded to know why he wanted to "play our game? "You know you can't play it".
> 
> ...



recreational chemcials 




Do we have a hierarchy for inclusion?

I think imprisonable actions should be top, with bigotry next, dodgy acts on the rugby pitch following that, and personal peccadilloes last.

Otherwise we'll have the 'dog blowjob' bloke crossing codes.


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

And take Grewcock out, for crying out loud.  He's basically Bakkies Botha but with a slightly more ridiculous name.


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

I'd also be tempted to shoehorn Will Carling in - did his fling with Di count as treason?


----------



## flypanam (May 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> I'd also be tempted to shoehorn Will Carling in - did his fling with Di count as treason?



Only if she was dead first...which does possibly explain why she went with him in the first place.


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Only if she was dead first...which does possibly explain why she went with him in the first place.


 
Can I just confirm that it's only treason to sleep with the second in line to the throne's _dead_ wife?

To be honest, that's probably in the statutes somewhere.  Funny lot, those royals.


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

Brings a tear to the eye.

http://www.planetrugby.com/gallery/story/0,25928,9825_6924134,00.html

I honestly don't understand the hostility to Grewcock.  He liked the biff, and got god knows how many yellows, but only when administering some of the tight-five-justice.  He got it back ten-fold and just carried on, and that's something I have huge respect for.

He was actually the player I'd have loved to have been, at least a cross between him and Richard Hill.


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 12, 2011)

Who's going to manage them?.


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Who's going to manage them?.


 
De Villiers, surely.


----------



## flypanam (May 12, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Who's going to manage them?.



See this



mattie said:


> Otherwise we'll have the 'dog blowjob' bloke crossing codes.



Joel Monaghan


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> De Villiers, surely.


 
Surely the saffa bloke who made them climb naked into a lake at gunpoint while playing the haka and gstq would be better


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Surely the saffa bloke who made them climb naked into a lake at gunpoint while playing the haka and gstq would be better


 
That actually sounds like something De Villiers would do.


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

flypanam said:


> More for the  pot
> 
> Springboks player James Small is alleged to have called star winger and team mate Chester Williams a 'fucking kaffir' and demanded to know why he wanted to "play our game? "You know you can't play it".
> 
> ...


 
VdW in at Henjak's expense. We definitely need a bench.

15- Danny Cipriani (petty larceny - vodka)
14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
12- Craig Gower (public exposure to tourists, sexual assault, vomiting on people, theft and crashing of a golf buggy, threatening radio presenters with a butter knife, biting a man on the neck after trying to kiss him, etc, etc.) This guy sets the benchmark
10- Quade Cooper (burglary)
9- Joost Van Der Westhuizen (coke and vice)
11- Maad Dougie Howlett (Car and hotel trashing)
1- Loe (all-round scary bastard)
2- James Dalton (attempted wife drowning)
3- Matt Stevens (coke)
4- Danny Grewcock (consistent twuntery)
5- Geo Cronje (vicious, racist cunt)
6- Mongo (Golf buggy theft and drunk driving, provoking hoolies)
7- Dallaglio (drug dealing)
8- Marc Cecillion (wife shooting) 

Replacements:

Matt Henjak (breaking a defenceless teammate's jaw in an unprovoked attack)
Rodney So'aialo (Benefit Fraud)
Trevor Brennan (assaulting crowd members)
Could have Vaquerin in as our specialist prop, and maybe ROG, James Small or Olly Barclay in as backs cover.


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> And take Grewcock out, for crying out loud.  He's basically Bakkies Botha but with a slightly more ridiculous name.


 
Mattie, if you can find a replacement I am happy to drop Danny from the squad altogether.


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Mattie, if you can find a replacement I am happy to drop Danny from the squad altogether.


 
Justin Harrison.  A twat of the first order.

Even keeps the Bath connection going.


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> Brings a tear to the eye.
> 
> http://www.planetrugby.com/gallery/story/0,25928,9825_6924134,00.html
> 
> ...


 
Biting, wasn't it? I also remember a totally unprovoked attack with a foot on Dwayne Peel that got him and Lord Alfie of Thumb sent to the bin for 10 in, I think, 2005.


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> Justin Harrison.  A twat of the first order.
> 
> Even keeps the Bath connection going.



15- Danny Cipriani (petty larceny - vodka)
14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
12- Craig Gower (public exposure to tourists, sexual assault, vomiting on people, theft and crashing of a golf buggy, threatening radio presenters with a butter knife, biting a man on the neck after trying to kiss him, etc, etc.) This guy sets the benchmark
10- Quade Cooper (burglary)
9- Joost Van Der Westhuizen (coke and vice)
11- Maad Dougie Howlett (Car and hotel trashing)
1- Loe (all-round scary bastard)
2- James Dalton (attempted wife drowning)
3- Matt Stevens (coke)
4- Justin Harrison (coke)
5- Geo Cronje (vicious, racist cunt)
6- Mongo (Golf buggy theft and drunk driving, provoking hoolies)
7- Dallaglio (drug dealing)
8- Marc Cecillion (wife shooting)

Replacements:

Matt Henjak (breaking a defenceless teammate's jaw in an unprovoked attack)
Rodney So'aialo (Benefit Fraud)
Trevor Brennan (assaulting crowd members)
Could have Vaquerin in as our specialist prop, and maybe ROG, James Small or Olly Barclay in as backs cover


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Biting, wasn't it? I also remember a totally unprovoked attack with a foot on Dwayne Peel that got him and Lord Alfie of Thumb sent to the bin for 10 in, I think, 2005.


 
He did like to help people out of the wrong side of a ruck, I'll give you that.


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

Andrew Walker's story is a bit tragic - good player, ruined by booze and the marching powder.


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

And who's that south-sea Islander who keeps disappearing and getting contracts cancelled?


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

And Dayglo didn't deal drugs.


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

Got to say that Shaggedatranni and Mongo are like a pair of roses among the thorns in that squad.

We currently have:

England: 3
Wales: 1
Aus: 5
NZ: 3
Ire: 1
SA: 3
France: 2


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> And Dayglo didn't deal drugs.


 
No. He just told a journalist he did in order to impress her, and deserves inclusion on that basis only.


----------



## flypanam (May 12, 2011)

bendeus said:


> 15- Danny Cipriani (petty larceny - vodka)
> 14- Wendall Sailor (coke)
> 13- Bastareaud (drunkenness, lying on telly, public breakdown)
> 12- Craig Gower (public exposure to tourists, sexual assault, vomiting on people, theft and crashing of a golf buggy, threatening radio presenters with a butter knife, biting a man on the neck after trying to kiss him, etc, etc.) This guy sets the benchmark
> ...



Now that is what I call a team.  Can you imagine the dressing room before, during and after the game? Blood. Everywhere.


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

bendeus said:


> No. He just told a journalist he did in order to impress her, and deserves inclusion on that basis only.


 
That's a pretty low bar for qualification.

On that note, do we not think use of drugs a pretty poor reason for inclusion?  It's a personal choice which impacts personally.  And I say that as a Bath fan.

I'd leave Harrison in there, as he encouraged Bath academy players to have a line or two.  Not on.


----------



## flypanam (May 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> And who's that south-sea Islander who keeps disappearing and getting contracts cancelled?


 

He can do what he wants, he's insanely good. Plus he really does suffer from homesickness, when some team went to ind him he was found sitting in  a mud hut in his home village in Fiji.

as for LOL it was serious enough for him to quit England, I think he should stay.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/24/newsid_2503000/2503183.stm


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

flypanam said:


> He can do what he wants, he's insanely good. Plus he really does suffer from homesickness, when some team went to ind him he was found sitting in  a mud hut in his home village in Fiji.
> 
> as for LOL it was serious enough for him to quit England, I think he should stay.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/24/newsid_2503000/2503183.stm


 
I'm not sure I like these newspaper stitch-ups, egging on stupid statements and crucifying them for it.

Ultimately, although I recognise professional sports persons have responsibilities, I feel distinctly hypocritical slagging them off for a bit of light recreation.


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Now that is what I call a team.  Can you imagine the dressing room before, during and after the game? Blood. Everywhere.


 
Aye. Bastareaud and Geo Cronje would probably come to blows in a mini-race riot after being persuaded by Wendell, Matt, Justin and Joost to try a little bit of the good stuff that Dayglo had hidden in an old sock at the bottom of his kitbag.

Bastareaud would later cry and go into hiding. Meanwhile, Quade Cooper's attempt at stealth larceny would be dealt a bitter blow after finding Maad Dougie dancing an Irish jig on top of his badly mashed getaway car. Luckily, he would have been able to cadge a lift in an erratically driven golf cart containing Gower and Mongo, the former of whom would have just groped James Dalton's wife. Unfortunately for her, James would have got the wrong end of the stick, with unfortunately distressing and watery consequences.

A bloodbath!


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> That's a pretty low bar for qualification.
> 
> On that note, do we not think use of drugs a pretty poor reason for inclusion?  It's a personal choice which impacts personally.  And I say that as a Bath fan.
> 
> I'd leave Harrison in there, as he encouraged Bath academy players to have a line or two.  Not on.



As long as you can find quality replacements, Mattie.........


----------



## flypanam (May 12, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Aye. Bastareaud and Geo Cronje would probably come to blows in a mini-race riot after being persuaded by Wendell, Matt, Justin and Joost to try a little bit of the good stuff that Dayglo had hidden in an old sock at the bottom of his kitbag.
> 
> Bastareaud would later cry and go into hiding. Meanwhile, Quade Cooper's attempt at stealth larceny would be dealt a bitter blow after finding Maad Dougie dancing an Irish jig on top of his badly mashed getaway car. Luckily, he would have been able to cadge a lift in an erratically driven golf cart containing Gower and Mongo, the former of whom would have just groped James Dalton's wife. Unfortunately for her, James would have got the wrong end of the stick, with unfortunately distressing and watery consequences.
> 
> A bloodbath!



^^^
Funny as !!!

And Marc Cecillion  thinking whats another 20 years will bring out a shooter and waste 'em all.


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

Pouting Danny Cipriani, meanwhile, will stand there wondering if he really is as amazing as he thinks he is.....


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Pouting Danny Cipriani, meanwhile, will stand there wondering if he really is as amazing as he thinks he is.....


 
I am absolutely positive someone in that group would give him a good slap.


----------



## flypanam (May 12, 2011)

Joost V d W?


----------



## mattie (May 12, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Joost V d W?


 
To be honest, I suspect they'd be forming a queue.


----------



## bendeus (May 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> To be honest, I suspect they'd be forming a queue.


----------



## bendeus (May 13, 2011)

JVdW diagnosed with motor neurone disease. Fucking horrendous. Weird thing is that they mention Venter, a team mate of his, who also has the disease.

There's a link to an article from the Times that relates to a high prevalence of the disease among footballers, for whom first symptoms usually start at 41 (pretty much JdW's age); 20 years younger than the rest of the population.

This passage from the Times article is particularly interesting:



> The puzzle remains why football should be linked to ALS, a disease of which the cause has not yet been identified. There is a genetic component in the disease and there have been suggestions of the involvement of retroviruses, the type of viruses that cause Aids. But head trauma from heading footballs is the most obvious possibility.
> 
> Another possibility is performance-enhancing drugs, or some other common factor to which footballers are exposed — perhaps the use of painkillers to enable them to to take the field when injured.It was also possible that people prone to ALS are drawn to sport, according to Dr Chalabi.



Now stop me if I'm wrong, but the presence of two sufferers from one team is a bit weird. Google tells me that the chances of contracting it are 5 in 100,000, or thereabouts. Therefore on a level playing field the probability of two sufferers within so small a group is pretty low. Not that I'm insinuating anything, but it just doesn't sit right.

Wiki tells us this:



> The very high incidence of the disease among Italian soccer players (more than five times higher than normally expected) has raised the concern of a possible link between the disease and the use of pesticides on the soccer fields (several of which have been linked to neuronal toxicity).[10][11] A 2004 Italian study trying to link a high incidence of ALS in soccer players to Performance Enhancing Drugs failed when the group was compared to cyclists that also used PEDs and had zero ALS. A possible conclusion was that soccer players experience frequent head trauma (heading the ball, falls and collisions sustained during games) compared to cyclists who wear head protection and rarely have falls.[12][13]



and goes on to say,



> A 2010 study has raised questions about the diagnosis of ALS in some veterans and athletes, suggesting that *repeated concussions* may cause a chronic traumatic encephalopathy that mimics ALS; this might explain the higher rate of ALS diagnoses in those populations



Which puts me in mind of the experience of Ireland's John Fogarty since retirement: http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...ifferent-person-when-this-is-bad-2410819.html

Either way, it's fucking horrendous news for an incredible and iconic player, and my sympathies go out to him. I have a sneaking suspicion that this may be the thin end of the wedge of neurological, skeletal and cranial injuries that will dog players in the modern game in a way never experienced in the amateur setup. They're bigger, faster and harder, and the game is more unforgiving, That Fogarty article just goes to show how much brain trauma is overlooked and glossed over in a highly competitive setup where games spent on the sideline could mean the end of your international  career or your first-choice berth at your club.

Anyway, I rant. It's shit, though.


----------



## mattie (May 13, 2011)

I think the RFU (might even be the IRB) have developed and introduced rules to do with concussions - basically, recognising it isn't something you 'run off' and enforcing substitution in the event of any identified problem.

Which can only be a good thing, although I would prefer a neutral medical officer to be in post to make decisions at match-day - avoid a bloodgate-esque situation.

Dreadful situation, good luck to those who are suffering with this.


----------



## bendeus (May 13, 2011)

mattie said:


> I think the RFU (might even be the IRB) have developed and introduced rules to do with concussions - basically, recognising it isn't something you 'run off' and enforcing substitution in the event of any identified problem.
> 
> Which can only be a good thing, although I would prefer a neutral medical officer to be in post to make decisions at match-day - avoid a bloodgate-esque situation.
> 
> Dreadful situation, good luck to those who are suffering with this.



Apparently, each player now has to do a baseline set of tests at the start of each season to determine what their reactions, etc. are like when not concussed. This is then compared against data gathered when they are suspected to be concussed and is used to base decisions to suspend players for the three-week (?) minimum period.

I was reading on another forum that players routinely cheat the baseline tests by reacting more slowly than they normally would. This then nixes the data from the second set of tests, thus allowing them to play when technically concussed. I'm not sure who it was during the 6N (B'OD, maybe?) who seemed to have been knocked cold in one of the games only to be playing again in the next.


----------



## bendeus (May 13, 2011)

mattie said:


> Dreadful situation, good luck to those who are suffering with this.


 
I don't think luck is going to help much in this event, sadly.


----------



## mattie (May 15, 2011)

Leicester vs Sarries in the play-off final..

I hope Leicester win, just because I think it's a madness saying whoever wins 2 games wins the league.  Have a play off, but for a different trophy.

Manu Tuilagi will definitely not be playing though.  Taking a bit of fisticuffs way too far.


----------



## The Boy (May 15, 2011)

Toulouse & Racing Metro got the automatic semi-final places in Top14.  ASM beat Biarritz (they havent lost at home since September 2009 ).  Montpelliers take the other spot - first time Castres have lost at home this season.  Also the first time Montpellier have made the play-offs.

Semi-finals:

Toulouse - ASM
Racing - Montpellier


----------



## bendeus (May 15, 2011)

All Ireland final in the ML. Welsh rugby is very, very shite at present.


----------



## flypanam (May 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> All Ireland final in the ML. Welsh rugby is very, very shite at present.



With 3 teams in semi's it was a good show from the provinces. Can get better too, with some of the young lads coming through. Danny Barnes, Conor Murray, Nevin Spence and Eoin O'Malley.  The one blip is the fact that Munster are finding it hard to give away tickets to games. Could the legend of the fickleness of Munster folk be true?

Though with Wales, the idea that the Ospreys are getting rid of the 'Stars' culture and returning to local lads playing for the team will in the long run be the best thing to happen to the team. Rugby is still a game based on pride and add some localism in and it's a fiery blend.


----------



## mattie (May 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> All Ireland final in the ML. Welsh rugby is very, very shite at present.


 
Better than Jock rugby.







Just.


----------



## mattie (May 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> With 3 teams in semi's it was a good show from the provinces. Can get better too, with some of the young lads coming through. Danny Barnes, Conor Murray, Nevin Spence and Eoin O'Malley.  The one blip is the fact that Munster are finding it hard to give away tickets to games. Could the legend of the fickleness of Munster folk be true?
> 
> Though with Wales, the idea that the Ospreys are getting rid of the 'Stars' culture and returning to local lads playing for the team will in the long run be the best thing to happen to the team. Rugby is still a game based on pride and add some localism in and it's a fiery blend.


 
Thoughts for Leinster/Northampton?

Leicester won the GP semi-final by fronting up and playing hard-nosed contact rugby, which seems to be the best way to play Northampton.  Tire the big boys out and the bench isn't that great.


----------



## flypanam (May 16, 2011)

Oh the East Midlands final. Am actually looking forward to it.

Mattie tbh I've avoided the Premiership in favour of Magners and Super Rugby. However what I've seen of Northampton I like. Lawes is an all round class act and Roger Wilson is fulfiling some of his undoubted potential, and James Downey can actually play!!! However they have a team thats full of cocks. Hartley = Cock, Myler = Cock, Foden = biggest cock of the lot. Ashton i quite like. However your right there is not that much going on with that team, they bulldoze the breakdown and the backs play a simple game. Added to what looks like freakishly high fitness levels they are attractive to watch. 

But the Tigers, get respect and deserve it. I think they are a lot cuter in their play than they get credit for. Hope they win.


----------



## mattie (May 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Oh the East Midlands final. Am actually looking forward to it.
> 
> Mattie tbh I've avoided the Premiership in favour of Magners and Super Rugby. However what I've seen of Northampton I like. Lawes is an all round class act and Roger Wilson is fulfiling some of his undoubted potential, and James Downey can actually play!!! However they have a team thats full of cocks. Hartley = Cock, Myler = Cock, Foden = biggest cock of the lot. Ashton i quite like. However your right there is not that much going on with that team, they bulldoze the breakdown and the backs play a simple game. Added to what looks like freakishly high fitness levels they are attractive to watch.
> 
> But the Tigers, get respect and deserve it. I think they are a lot cuter in their play than they get credit for. Hope they win.


 
Foden a bigger arse than Hartley?  I've never been that irritated by Foden, save for his celeb girlfriend and the mess that brings.

Just to confirm, as I think there may be some cross-purposes, Leicester beat Northampton over the weekend to set up the final with Sarries.   Leicester played very up-front rugby, which they're world-leaders at, and what's really scary if they've got some superb backs to cut lose as well.  In this case, they didn't, apart from Manu Tuilagi demonstrating the Ali shuffle and a right-left-right combo into Chris Ashton's face.

Northampton have got Leinster - perhaps minus one B O'Driscoll - next Saturday in the HC final.  I was wondering how you and others thought that might go.


----------



## flypanam (May 16, 2011)

Sorry mattie long day, not over yet. I got you now. I think Leinster will win. The scrum is more solid and despite Northampton having a good back row, i think the combination that Leinster have with O'brien, Heaslip and Jennings is just about a level above. I think Lawes is better than any of the Leinster locks. As for the front row Healy is a weakness but Strauss if fit is small nuggesty and gets very low in the scrum, Hartley (a mighty cock) doesn't get as low. Ross has stabalised the Leinster pack and will do so on Sat.

The Leinster bacKs from 9 to 15 are better than Northampton. Even without Drico (mCfadden is an able replacement) the rugby they have played has been inventive, territorial, narrow and with width all in the same game. A joy to watch. Only Ashton would make the Leinster side on current form.

I however am one eyed when it comes to Irish teams so I'd take what I say with a pinch of salt. 

Hope that makes more sense?????


----------



## mattie (May 17, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Sorry mattie long day, not over yet. I got you now. I think Leinster will win. The scrum is more solid and despite Northampton having a good back row, i think the combination that Leinster have with O'brien, Heaslip and Jennings is just about a level above. I think Lawes is better than any of the Leinster locks. As for the front row Healy is a weakness but Strauss if fit is small nuggesty and gets very low in the scrum, Hartley (a mighty cock) doesn't get as low. Ross has stabalised the Leinster pack and will do so on Sat.
> 
> The Leinster bacKs from 9 to 15 are better than Northampton. Even without Drico (mCfadden is an able replacement) the rugby they have played has been inventive, territorial, narrow and with width all in the same game. A joy to watch. Only Ashton would make the Leinster side on current form.
> 
> ...


 
I appreciate Ross has made a difference to Leinster, but Northampton's scrum is a powerful unit - that's where I anticipate them having the edge.  Mujati forced out Euan Murray, who's lost his mojo but is still an excellent scrumming prop, Tongah'uai (sp) is rightly up for European awards - superb in the loose and strong in the tight - and Hartley (yes, a prick, although has reined in his more dickish tendencies) has been in excellent form.  The locks aren't shabby either.  Back row is a Leinster strength, power, pace and footballing skill in all 3, although Northampton have some very good players in the back row, they're not up to the physical power of Leinster and they'll miss Wood badly.

I also wouldn't underestimate the Northampton backs, I didn't rate them much above competent until they ran merry hell through Bath not that long ago.  Yes, Bath are not currently where I'd like, but Northampton were superb.  Reservations over Myler, but he did the job.  Of course, Leinster are blessed in the backs, but I expect Northampton to put up a fight.

I also don't get the criticism of Foden, he is a seriously talented player.  I'd caution against judging him against fawning commentators.

Anyway, really looking forward to the game, heading over with bro and his mates and just pleased to see two teams who can light up the paddock - although these sorts of games do head towards the attritional.


----------



## flypanam (May 17, 2011)

mattie said:


> Anyway, really looking forward to the game, heading over with bro and his mates and just pleased to see two teams who can light up the paddock - although these sorts of games do head towards the attritional.



They do. And i suppose it will be down to the Northampton rugby nous if it does. Nothing wrong with a team playing to their strengths. I just want a good old fashioned quality game to finish the season off. Then I can get a months rest before fretting about the world cup!


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 18, 2011)

mattie said:


> In this case, they didn't, apart from Manu Tuilagi demonstrating the Ali shuffle and a right-left-right combo into Chris Ashton's face..


He got 5 weeks, down from 10 because it was Ashton he hit.

Leinster look a formidable unit - I'm struggling to see past them and they beaten two quality sides in Toulouse and Leicester to get this far.


----------



## mattie (May 19, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> He got 5 weeks, down from 10 because it was Ashton he hit.
> 
> Leinster look a formidable unit - I'm struggling to see past them and they beaten two quality sides in Toulouse and Leicester to get this far.


 
I reckon Leinster will do it, but I am hoping for an attractive running game - both teams easily capable of it.


----------



## mattie (May 19, 2011)

Oh, and there's this:

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2010-11/rugby/story/140045.html

I must admit I screamed.  Loudly.  I know Butch's tackling technique can sometimes leaves a fair bit to be desired, but at least he can put in a hit.


----------



## bendeus (May 20, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> He got 5 weeks, down from 10 because it was Ashton he hit.



Just in time to get him into the squad for the world cup. How convenient. Another Saes player gets a risible sentence to ensure that the RFU's needs come first and due process a very distant second.



> Leinster look a formidable unit - I'm struggling to see past them and they beaten two quality sides in Toulouse and Leicester to get this far.



Aye. They're quality this year, and BOD has shaken off his injury scare.


----------



## mattie (May 20, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Just in time to get him into the squad for the world cup. How convenient. Another Saes player gets a risible sentence to ensure that the RFU's needs come first and due process a very distant second.



Amazingly, it seems to be in line with the penalties handed out by the RFU for other striking incidents - and the discount seems to be in line with other first-time offenders.  Despite this, seeing as he nearly had Ashton's head off, he should have got the full whack (pardon pun).

Still, funny to see the taffs get wound up by the conspiracy 


As an aside, shouldn't we move to banning players for a number of games, rather than a number of weeks?  Tuilagi's ban is for next to no matches,and only one for Leicester.  I'm undecided whether enforcing the ban only in the competition/class of match the offence was committed in is a good idea or not.


----------



## agricola (May 21, 2011)

What a game.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (May 21, 2011)

What a game, what a fightback, what a team.







Heaslip tweets his medal


----------



## mattie (May 22, 2011)

Well, a game of two halves, Ron.

Leinster finally realising that being bitched up front means it's a good idea not to knock it on every five minutes.  Northampton just didn't have the gas to deal with Leinster's power in the second half, just couldn't get out of their own 22.

Cracking day out, despite the genius train company reducing the train to two carriages.


----------



## flypanam (May 25, 2011)

bolshiebhoy said:


> What a game, what a fightback, what a team.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



^^^ he's some ego that lad, cracking though!

Whats the fast group in Ireland?

Leinster men who used to support Munster but who are now returning back to their roots. 

Someone save us from the glory hunters!


----------



## Infidel Castro (May 26, 2011)

Is it too late to say Wales have been absolutely shit?


----------



## mattie (May 26, 2011)

Infidel Castro said:


> Is it too late to say Wales have been absolutely shit?


 
It bears repeating.


----------



## mattie (May 26, 2011)

Infidel Castro said:


> Is it too late to say Wales have been absolutely shit?


 
More than once.


----------



## bendeus (May 27, 2011)

Infidel Castro said:


> Is it too late to say Wales have been absolutely shit?


 
Who are you? The ghost of fucking Banquo?

No, it's not. We are execrable. Faletau/Delve at 8, North at 14, Henson at 12, Peel at 9 and Stan Laurel hanging from a yardarm could save us yet, though


----------



## bendeus (May 27, 2011)

mattie said:


> More than once.


 
Mike. Fucking. Tindall.


----------



## bendeus (May 27, 2011)

Infidel Castro said:


> Is it too late to say Wales have been absolutely shit?


 
Welcome back, BTW.


----------



## mattie (May 27, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Mike. Fucking. Tindall.


 
Andy. Fucking. Powell.


----------



## bendeus (May 27, 2011)

mattie said:


> Andy. Fucking. Powell.


 
Damn you!

Assorted. Bloody. Kiwis.


----------



## Infidel Castro (May 29, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Welcome back, BTW.


 
Aye 

Work has been tough.  Couple with the lady's son being a revision freak (good on him btw), the internet has become a luxury...

Faletau at 8 for sure.  'burton and Lydiate to form one of our best ever back-rows with him.  It'll be better than Quinnell, Williams and Charv.

Jamie Roberts out altogether as well.


----------



## trampie (May 29, 2011)

Fantastic Magners League final, the Magners does not get the media coverage of the Top14 or the Aviva Prem but its a better product on the field and if recent Heineken Cups are anything to go by it has better teams as well as more entertaining games.


----------



## mattie (May 29, 2011)

trampie said:


> Fantastic Magners League final, the Magners does not get the media coverage of the Top14 or the Aviva Prem but its a better product on the field and if recent Heineken Cups are anything to go by it has better teams as well as more entertaining games.


 
Yeah, the Irish teams are pretty good.


----------



## trampie (May 29, 2011)

They are indeed the best in Europe at the moment.


----------



## mattie (May 29, 2011)

Well done for interpreting the Heineken Cup correctly.


----------



## mattie (May 29, 2011)

Leicester beaten at their own game, at one point Sarries held them out for 32 phases.

Owen Farrell looks a chip off the old block.


----------



## junglevip (May 29, 2011)

trampie said:


> Fantastic Magners League final, the Magners does not get the media coverage of the Top14 or the Aviva Prem but its a better product on the field and if recent Heineken Cups are anything to go by it has better teams as well as more entertaining games.


 
Its a good tournament.  Accessible too with BBC online, red button and you can get S4C games with English commentary.  I like the Friday night games


----------



## bendeus (May 31, 2011)

junglevip said:


> Its a good tournament.  Accessible too with BBC online, red button and you can get S4C games with English commentary.  I like the Friday night games


 
Sorry, I can't agree with this. The Magners is not a good competition, and contains, at best, five or six decent sides amidst a sea of dross (NGD, Scottish sides, Italian sides, Connacht, occasionally Ulster (until this season), occasionally the Scarlets).

Fixtures, scheduling, etc. are a farce, ghost sides are fielded throughout the AI and 6N windows, allowing shit sides like the Dragons to make hay against reserve sides/kids.

Teams only seem to get revved up for local derbies. Weakened sides are deliberately picked for away fixtures, etc, etc.

The Magners is shite, and sadly it's all we've got. I still hold out a dream for a two tier British Isles league, or a three-tier European one (while maintaining a knockout HEC-style tournament). That would get crowds going, improve standards and fit in properly with the international windows. Right now it seems that everyone bar the Frogs are getting the worse of all worlds, and that this is set to accelerate as the T14 contracts ever-increasing numbers of the best players from the Magners and Premiership.

IMHO, of course


----------



## bendeus (May 31, 2011)

Infidel Castro said:


> Jamie Roberts out altogether as well.


 
As a Blues fan it must hurt you to say that.


----------



## mattie (May 31, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Sorry, I can't agree with this. The Magners is not a good competition, and contains, at best, five or six decent sides amidst a sea of dross (NGD, Scottish sides, Italian sides, Connacht, occasionally Ulster (until this season), occasionally the Scarlets).
> 
> Fixtures, scheduling, etc. are a farce, ghost sides are fielded throughout the AI and 6N windows, allowing shit sides like the Dragons to make hay against reserve sides/kids.
> 
> ...


 
Bearing in mind that any attempt to have a genuine British Isles league would just cause a collective outraged spillage of sherry and brandy down old school ties at Twickenham, I'd say any solution would need to be internal to the Magners League.


----------



## mattie (May 31, 2011)

And Bath still don't have a fly-half for next season (assuming Vesty stays at 15 where he's been very impressive).


----------



## bendeus (May 31, 2011)

mattie said:


> Bearing in mind that any attempt to have a genuine British Isles league would just cause a collective outraged spillage of sherry and brandy down old school ties at Twickenham, I'd say any solution would need to be internal to the Magners League.


 
I'm not so sure, mate. Sounds like the GP clubs are struggling, with the few big boys/teams with wealthy backers carrying the league. I wonder what would happen if a Murdoch dangled the carrot. What do you reckon the likes of Leicester would do?


----------



## bendeus (May 31, 2011)

mattie said:


> And Bath still don't have a fly-half for next season (assuming Vesty stays at 15 where he's been very impressive).


 
There's a spare 10 down the back of the sofa. Welsh chap. Orange. Can play 12 or 15 too. Might want to have a look at him


----------



## mattie (May 31, 2011)

bendeus said:


> I'm not so sure, mate. Sounds like the GP clubs are struggling, with the few big boys/teams with wealthy backers carrying the league. I wonder what would happen if a Murdoch dangled the carrot. What do you reckon the likes of Leicester would do?


 
Leicester are doing fine, it's the salary cap that's biting them.

The point is taken that some GP clubs aren't that financially secure, but I can't see Sale suddenly becoming a well-supported team because Glasgow are visiting.


----------



## mattie (May 31, 2011)

bendeus said:


> There's a spare 10 down the back of the sofa. Welsh chap. Orange. Can play 12 or 15 too. Might want to have a look at him


 
It's been discussed, apparently.  On a purely rugby footing any right-minded Bath fan would have him in a shot - pass, kick, pick a line, tackle.  Not much wrong with his game.  

But then we note the way he left Hairsprays, Sarries, Toulon, the way he 'engaged' with fellow Lions and the coaching team.......

Bath have spent a lot of time and effort replacing a talented but too off-field focused set of players (ahem) with - hopefully - a talented team with an ethic for professionalism.  Chavin has repeatedly caused a few problems in this regard.  I qualify this by acknowledging he's a consummately professional trainer, but he appears unable to rub anyone up the right way.

I'd still have him.  I think most fans would.  I think team management have the bigger picture in mind though.


----------



## mattie (May 31, 2011)

And precisely wtf is going on with Stade?


----------



## bendeus (Jun 1, 2011)

mattie said:


> And precisely wtf is going on with Stade?


 
I know. It would be crazy if they went down.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 1, 2011)

They placed such hope in Cheka! Still they are re building as it were with Paul Warwick, Tony Fuckley and Stan Wright all heading there.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 1, 2011)

flypanam said:


> They placed such hope in Cheka! Still they are re building as it were with Paul Warwick, Tony Fuckley and Stan Wright all heading there.


Fuckley. Rebuilding. Jeez!


----------



## mattie (Jun 2, 2011)

The Guardian made me wince this morning.  Get the cigarette lighter out.



Bendy'll love it though.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 2, 2011)

O'Gara - utter cock boy!

Actually can see the other blokes and their thinking 'Jeez THIS IS BRILLIANT. Having a craic with Ronan. Wee langer was a cunt in school boy! . Shit tipster though. Never gets his round in. cheap tickets for mates though, only €20'


----------



## The Boy (Jun 2, 2011)

flypanam said:


> O'Gara - utter cock boy!


 
Not much more to be said really 

So it'sToulouse - Montpel in the Top14 final.  Lyon & Bordeaux-Begles are promoted which should please the LNR.  Stade are facing relegation if they can't fill a 6M Euro hole in their finances.  Doubt it will happen but I would imagine that Albi would be promoted if it did.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 2, 2011)

mattie said:


> The Guardian made me wince this morning.  Get the cigarette lighter out.
> 
> 
> 
> Bendy'll love it though.




I noticed that on 0:57, when it was his responsibility to chip in with a verse, he visibly quailed, and the fat bloke in the black top who appears to be coached to protect O'nan when his bottle goes, filled the hole in the line with some tone deaf drivel.

Fucking coward. Always said so, always will.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 6, 2011)

Is it too late to say that Wales have been absolutely shit?


----------



## flypanam (Jun 7, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Is it too late to say that Wales have been absolutely shit?



No. Not. Ever.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 7, 2011)

HEC Draw:

Pool 1 - Munster, *Northampton*, Scarlets,Castres
Pool 2 - Cardiff, LIrish, Edin, *Racing Metro*
Pool 3 - *Leinster*, Bath, Glasgow, Montpellier
Pool 4 - *Leics, Clermont*, Ulster ,Aironi
Pool 5 - *Biarritz, Ospreys*, Sarries, Treviso
Pool 6 - *Tooloose*, Quins, Glaws, Connacht 

Finally the Os get a bit of a softer draw. Blues of 2009 would have walked that group. Blues of 2011 won't get through. Unlucky, Turks!
As usual, the Bendy prediction-O-meter is in bold.

E2A: Ladyboys to win the fucking thing again. Bloody cheating Irish!


----------



## bendeus (Jun 7, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Faletau/Delve at 8, North at 14, Henson at 12, Peel at 9 and Stan Laurel hanging from a yardarm could save us yet, though



Well, we had everything bar Peel at 9 and we still looked bobbins in attack. Admittedly no forward platform, and Chavin looked a yard off the pace, but that backline ISN'T. BEING. COACHED.

Stan Laurel swinging from the yardarm it is, then


----------



## flypanam (Jun 8, 2011)

bendeus said:


> HEC Draw:
> Pool 1 - *Munster, Northampton*, Scarlets,Castres
> Pool 5 - *Biarritz*, Ospreys, Sarries, Treviso
> E2A: Ladyboys to win the fucking thing again. Bloody cheating Irish!



Irish teams love playing our welsh cousins cos they don't cheat hence don't know how to win!!!

Just to say I've been watching the Churchill Cup, good to see Russia (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/jun/07/olympic-russia-rugby-union-world-cup) in there. Would LOVE IT if the men in red won it. TONGA!


----------



## bendeus (Jun 8, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Irish teams love playing our welsh cousins cos they don't cheat hence don't know how to win!!!



We're too thick to run supporting lines, we're too thick to defend a ruck, we're too thick to throw into a lineout, we're too thick to use dummy runners and we're too fucking thick to cheat effectively (except Martyn Williams, natch)!



> Just to say I've been watching the Churchill Cup, good to see Russia (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/jun/07/olympic-russia-rugby-union-world-cup) in there. Would LOVE IT if the men in red won it. TONGA!


 
Taffies quite closely involved in the Russian setup. Kingsley Jones and some leek munching henchmen are showing the Russian bear how to snarl

E2A: I fear you're right about the Os. It was heart bolding rather than head bolding. My objective Bendy prediction is *No.Fucking.Welsh.Teams.In.The.Knockout.Stages (again)*


----------



## flypanam (Jun 9, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Taffies quite closely involved in the Russian setup. Kingsley Jones and some leek munching henchmen are showing the Russian bear how to snarl



Yeah Kingsley Jones seems to be singing the praises of the Russians suggesting that there we more than just a few mama's boys at Sale. Good on him, always like that dude, not the best coach but he's Union through and through. However can't be much fun living in depressed, deprived and dictatorial Russia however they have made rugby compulsory at school. can only be good.


It was a good game last night. Canada won but the Bears certainly put up them. Intersting to note that Vassilly Armteev (sp) the ex Ireland under 20 and Universities player will be at Northhampton next year. I remember seeing him play a schools cup game (I ain't privately educated but some of my mates were) and he was something special, he's the only young kid I ever saw who just had natural ability. Good luck to him. And FUCK the Dept of Justice for not giving the lad citizenship, We could have done with a good winger, if Tommy Bowe (peace be upon him) ever gets crocked.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 9, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Yeah Kingsley Jones seems to be singing the praises of the Russians suggesting that there we more than just a few mama's boys at Sale. Good on him, always like that dude, not the best coach but he's Union through and through. However can't be much fun living in depressed, deprived and dictatorial Russia however they have made rugby compulsory at school. can only be good.
> 
> 
> It was a good game last night. Canada won but the Bears certainly put up them. Intersting to note that Vassilly Armteev (sp) the ex Ireland under 20 and Universities player will be at Northhampton next year. I remember seeing him play a schools cup game (I ain't privately educated but some of my mates were) and he was something special, he's the only young kid I ever saw who just had natural ability. Good luck to him. And FUCK the Dept of Justice for not giving the lad citizenship, We could have done with a good winger, if Tommy Bowe (peace be upon him) ever gets crocked.


 
With the Welsh connection I'm hoping that the regions could possibly start benefiting from some enormous, terrifying, frost-honed forwards in a couple of years time. You know the kind of thing.....imagine this fucker packing down at lock


----------



## 1927 (Jun 9, 2011)

bendeus said:


> There's a spare 10 down the back of the sofa. Welsh chap. Orange. Can play 12 or 15 too. Might want to have a look at him


 
Off to Stade from waht I heard.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 9, 2011)

1927 said:


> Off to Stade from waht I heard.


 
Not if they go down he's not.


----------



## The Boy (Jun 10, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Not if they go down he's not.


 
Stade are safe.  And they have signed Kelleher (amongst around a dozen others).


----------



## bendeus (Jun 11, 2011)

I can't say the thought of Chavin let loose on Gay Paree fills me with too much confidence


----------



## mattie (Jun 11, 2011)

bendeus said:


> I can't say the thought of Chavin let loose on Gay Paree fills me with too much confidence


 
I dread to think what he'd do to a fussball table.

Anyway, sounds like Bath's no 10 next season will be Stephen Donald.  He's had mixed reviews, all I know is that he's not as good as Dan Carter.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 13, 2011)

Donald is a good player. He's an excellent going forward first 5/8th. I'm surprised that Waikato are letting him go. They must be looking at Kerr Barlow to replace him. The problem with donald is that he's got all the skills but if his confidence goes, he'll kick straight out and the goal post will have to be moved to the left as he'll pull his kicks. Hence the nickname 'Duck.' All that aside any time I've been in NZ and seen the mighty CHIEFS play he's been pretty good. Though the Chiefs have had a poor season and so has Donald, the talk is he's lost his All Black place to Arron Crudden who is simply awful. I think the slower game may suit him. Bath could have just made a very astute buy. 

btw I see the all round sound dude Marty Holah is back in Waikato colours for the ITM cup. Shame the Ospreys lost him, I'm sure he had a lot to give. I hope he turns his hand to coaching beacuse I just think he's awesome.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 13, 2011)

The Boy said:


> Stade are safe.  And they have signed Kelleher (amongst around a dozen others).



He's realised the Porn Starlet potential of Paris has he? The duuurty dog.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 13, 2011)

flypanam said:


> btw I see the all round sound dude Marty Holah is back in Waikato colours for the ITM cup. Shame the Ospreys lost him, I'm sure he had a lot to give. I hope he turns his hand to coaching beacuse I just think he's awesome.


 
A god amongst men is our Marty. The eulogies to him as both a man and a player are entirely justified, IMO. I remember going up to him for an autograph on an Os/Scarlets programme for my old granny last year. Of all the sigs I harvested that night (A. Jones, M. Rees, L. Byrne, AWJ and Jerry Collins) he was the most gracious by quite a stretch.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 14, 2011)

NZ U20s 92 - Wales U20s 0



Future's in good hands, then


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 14, 2011)

bendeus said:


> I can't say the thought of Chavin let loose on Gay Paree fills me with too much confidence


 
He'll be shackled up by then.

Wales rugby star Gavin Henson is to star in a new TV dating show where he hopes to meet "the right girl".

Henson, who is separated from Charlotte Church, will be The Bachelor in a UK version of the hit US programme.

Channel 5 said viewers should "expect flirting, bitching and heartfelt emotion" as 25 contestants compete to win his heart.






http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13753762

"I've always been dedicated to my rugby and continue to train hard but as the season draws to an end I can focus on meeting the right girl."

Never mind focusing on the WC aye?


----------



## mattie (Jun 14, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Channel 5 said viewers should "expect flirting, bitching and heartfelt emotion" as 25 contestants compete to win his heart.





Are they talking about Chavin there?


----------



## mattie (Jun 14, 2011)

bendeus said:


> NZ U20s 92 - Wales U20s 0
> 
> 
> 
> Future's in good hands, then


 
Ouch.  14 tries.  That's one every 5 or so minutes.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 15, 2011)

mattie said:


> Are they talking about Chavin there?



No - Welsh rugby fans!


----------



## flypanam (Jun 15, 2011)

"Gav yr a disgrace!"

I doubt he's ever heard those words. All that talent wasted. To think there is some poor fucker out there, who was dedicated, but didn't quite have the same skill, and he's probably now working a noodle factory or something thinking if only...


----------



## 1927 (Jun 15, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> He'll be shackled up by then.
> 
> Wales rugby star Gavin Henson is to star in a new TV dating show where he hopes to meet "the right girl".
> 
> ...


 
Doesn't have the same ring to it, but shouldn't it more correctly be called The Divorcee?


----------



## bendeus (Jun 15, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:
			
		

> No - Welsh rugby fans!



Fuck off! We never flirt


----------



## bendeus (Jun 15, 2011)

flypanam said:


> "Gav yr a disgrace!"
> 
> I doubt he's ever heard those words. All that talent wasted. To think there is some poor fucker out there, who was dedicated, but didn't quite have the same skill, and he's probably now working a noodle factory or something thinking if only...



I know. He's only gone and won as many grandslams as Ireland. Wasted, I tells ya!


----------



## bendeus (Jun 15, 2011)

1927 said:


> Doesn't have the same ring to it, but shouldn't it more correctly be called The Divorcee?



You would though, wouldn't you? So would Mattie, Sleater and Flypanam. £100,000 and 23 attractive airheads or Gatland's Polish boot camp followed by an ignominious exit from the WC to Namibia.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 15, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Fuck off! We never flirt


 You tried to get on the program, didn't you?.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 15, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> You tried to get on the program, didn't you?.



Aye. They don't take plump blokes with halitosis, unfortunately


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> I know. He's only gone and won as many grandslams as Ireland. Wasted, I tells ya!


 
How many 6 Nations and Heineken Cups might he have won over his career if he had half of O'Driscoll's dedication? The Orange Oddball is a natural talent, probably second only to O'Driscoll in terms of Northern Hemisphere backs in recent times. That he's achieved half as much as he has despite being a dedicated wastrel is a tribute to that talent. If I was a Welsh rugby fan, I'd have strangled him by now.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 16, 2011)

Nigel Irritable said:


> How many 6 Nations and Heineken Cups might he have won over his career if he had half of O'Driscoll's dedication? The Orange Oddball is a natural talent, probably second only to O'Driscoll in terms of Northern Hemisphere backs in recent times. That he's achieved half as much as he has despite being a dedicated wastrel is a tribute to that talent. If I was a Welsh rugby fan, I'd have strangled him by now.


 
Thats as maybe but O'stampy never got to shag Charlotte!


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Nigel Irritable said:


> How many 6 Nations and Heineken Cups might he have won over his career if he had half of O'Driscoll's dedication? The Orange Oddball is a natural talent, probably second only to O'Driscoll in terms of Northern Hemisphere backs in recent times. That he's achieved half as much as he has despite being a dedicated wastrel is a tribute to that talent. If I was a Welsh rugby fan, I'd have strangled him by now.


 
You forgot to mention that his record of injury is second only to Jonny Jebus in terms of NH backs in recent times. That he's achieved what he has given the fact that he's only played two full seasons since 2004 is fairly impressive.

Anyways, I'm only really doing this out of a sense of weary obligation, the need to maintain consistency, and the fact that it annoys Mattie


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

1927 said:


> Thats as maybe but O'stampy never got to shag Charlotte!



In fairness, I'd take O'Stampy's missus over our Charl any day.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> You forgot to mention that his record of injury is second only to Jonny Jebus in terms of NH backs in recent times. That he's achieved what he has given the fact that he's only played two full seasons since 2004 is fairly impressive.
> 
> Anyways, I'm only really doing this out of a sense of weary obligation, the need to maintain consistency, and the fact that it annoys Mattie


 
I love an opportunity to bitch about Chavin, the freakily-stretch-faced pool-game-wrecker.

Oh, and Bendy, you'll love this - Cockerill talking about signing up Tait for the Tiggers.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> I love an opportunity to bitch about Chavin, the freakily-stretch-faced pool-game-wrecker.



I sets 'em up, you knocks 'em down....



> Oh, and Bendy, you'll love this - Cockerill talking about signing up Tait for the Tiggers.



Thing is, he'd probably get him working effectively within the Tiggers' system. 

Either way I'm glad that he's getting the chance to show his skillz on the biggest stage. As one of the most talented running backs ever produced in the NH, he's frankly been wasted at Sale.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

1927 said:


> Thats as maybe but O'stampy never got to shag Charlotte!



True but Drico did lay down with Ireland's answer to Katie Price, Glenda 'is that an envelope opening, wait a minute I'll get a photographer' Gilson.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Either way I'm glad that he's getting the chance to show his skillz on the biggest stage. As one of the most talented running backs ever produced in the NH, he's frankly been wasted at Sale.



Tait????

 Nah mate. He's good but try and curb the hyperbole. He wouldn't get into the top 50 running backs in the NH. Truth be told, he'd struggle to get into the piss poor Scottish centre partnership.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Tait????
> 
> Nah mate. He's good but try and curb the hyperbole. He wouldn't get into the top 50 running backs in the NH. Truth be told, he'd struggle to get into the piss poor Scottish centre partnership.


 
Can I ask, at this point with no huffiness on my part, in what games you've seen him play?


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Tait????
> 
> Nah mate. He's good but try and curb the hyperbole. He wouldn't get into the top 50 running backs in the NH. Truth be told, he'd struggle to get into the piss poor Scottish centre partnership.


 
Flypanam mate, do me the service of recognising heavily sarcasm-laden posts when you see them, eh?


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> Can I ask, at this point with no huffiness on my part, in what games you've seen him play?


 
There's only one that matters, Mattie. You know that


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

Tbh, Not much this season, especially with all his injuries. I'm not doubting he's good. I just don't think he necessairly warrents status one of NH finest. The premiership, yes, NH, no.

Before that I can recall a couple of Heineken games, where he seemed ordinary. However he was in an ordinary team and you tend to play to the level around you. I don't doubt he was dragged down.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Flypanam mate, do me the service of recognising heavily sarcasm-laden posts when you see them, eh?


 
I took it at face value, and will be pleased to quote it in future.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Flypanam mate, do me the service of recognising heavily sarcasm-laden posts when you see them, eh?



Right! Gotcha. My bad.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> I'm not doubting he's good.


 
I am


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> I took it at face value, and will be pleased to quote it in future.


 
As mentioned, I sets 'em up...........


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Tbh, Not much this season, especially with all his injuries. I'm not doubting he's good. I just don't think he necessairly warrents status one of NH finest. The premiership, yes, NH, no.
> 
> Before that I can recall a couple of Heineken games, where he seemed ordinary. However he was in an ordinary team and you tend to play to the level around you. I don't doubt he was dragged down.



It's the constant chopping and changing that undermines, he frequently gets caught out in defensive patterns which is hardly surprising seeing as he won't know if he's wing, FB or in the centres until two days before the game.

He needs a run in one position, as first choice at one club, with no injuries.

He's had bad luck with injuries, but needs to take more of a lead in his career management - he's got to grab it and run with it, and not accept being shunted about.  He comes across as a touch too introspective for that though.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> I am





You once told me Andy Powell was good.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> It's the constant chopping and changing that undermines, he frequently gets caught out in defensive patterns which is hardly surprising seeing as he won't know if he's wing, FB or in the centres until two days before the game.
> 
> He needs a run in one position, as first choice at one club, with no injuries.
> 
> He's had bad luck with injuries, but needs to take more of a lead in his career management - he's got to grab it and run with it, and not accept being shunted about.  He comes across as a touch too introspective for that though.


 
It must be tough competing for starting positions in the England XV when pitched against such outstanding talent as Shontayne Hape, Mike 'Crashball' Tindall, Delon Armitage, Bananaman and Ballsup. No wonder he's never shone on the highest stage.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> You once told me Andy Powell was good.



Ach. I was pissed

Anyway, that's British Lion Andy Powell to you.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> It must be tough competing for starting positions in the England XV when pitched against such outstanding talent as Shontayne Hape, Mike 'Crashball' Tindall, Delon Armitage, Bananaman and Ballsup. No wonder he's never shone on the highest stage.



Those things we call 'injuries', most recently the dislocated shoulder.  

Who's 'ballsup'?


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Balshaw, of course.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Balshaw, of course.


 
Tait's a centre, Balshaw is a full back.

Anyway, that's World-Cup lifting British Lion Balshaw MBE to you.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Has Tait never played 15 for England?


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Has Tait never played 15 for England?


 
As above, this is the whole feckin' problem.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> There's only one that matters, Mattie. You know that


 
I missed this post.

Are we still talking about Chavin bullying an 19-year old in 2 tackles?  

Why not talk about the WC, where he was one of England's better players?  You know, when he wasn't 18 in a team going backwards?


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> As above, this is the whole feckin' problem.


 
A nasty case of Hookitis


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> I missed this post.
> 
> Are we still talking about Chavin bullying an 19-year old in 2 tackles?
> 
> Why not talk about the WC, where he was one of England's better players?  You know, when he wasn't 18 in a team going backwards?


 
I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous post referencing weary obligation and annoying you


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

The last world cup? When Australia sent it's under 20 Rugby League team, and france had been celebrating too much and forgot that a world cup includes a semi and a final?


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> The last world cup? When Australia sent it's under 20 Rugby League team, and france had been celebrating too much to forget that a world cup includes a semi and a final?


 
Ah, so it was easy.

That's what it was.

Can I ask, did luck play a part too?


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous post referencing weary obligation and annoying you



I've got my Ernie Wise cardigan on today.  Keep 'em coming.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

It did.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

Could you articulate where the luck fell?

You needn't be specific, just a few pointers.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

I have already. If i remember right, Australia turned up without a scrum. Lucky. France smashing New Zealand. Were at the bar in the Semi. Lucky. 

Lady Luck boarded the good ship Britannia, and serviced the crew.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> I have already. If i remember right, Australia turned up without a scrum. Lucky. France smashing New Zealand. Were at the bar in the Semi. Lucky.
> 
> Lady Luck boarded the good ship Britannia, and serviced the crew.


 
You seem to be implying Australia have ever turned up with a scrum.

We do seem to have the hex over the French, and I'm not sure many international teams give up WC wins on home territory to the Old Enemy, regardless of whom they've just turned over.

These slices of 'luck' appear, dare I say it, to be simply one team beating another?


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> You seem to be implying Australia have ever turned up with a scrum.
> 
> We do seem to have the hex over the French, and I'm not sure many international teams give up WC wins on home territory to the Old Enemy, regardless of whom they've just turned over.
> 
> These slices of 'luck' appear, dare I say it, to be simply one team beating another?


 
Do you think England will have as much success with a more expansive gameplan (read: moving it beyond 10 at least once per game) this year?


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Do you think England will have as much success with a more expansive gameplan (read: moving it beyond 10 at least once per game) this year?


 
Did OK with it against Oz and in the 6N, I thought.  I seem to recall going from one in-goal to another for one try.

But I expect it to button up when games are tight.  You know, playing to strengths and the situation and all that.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> Did OK with it against Oz and in the 6N, I thought.  I seem to recall going from one in-goal to another for one try.
> 
> But I expect it to button up when games are tight.  You know, playing to strengths and the situation and all that.



Aye, and furry muff. Not sure if you have the staff to front up in the tight in the way you were able to last time around, though (see AI vs. SA last year). I reckon you'll make the semis though, for what my opinion's worth.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

Australia, have had a scrum, you don't win TWO world cups without one. It was luck at the time that the Australia, as a country from it's national side right down through super 12's and regional comps followed the diktat that the scrum was just a way of re-starting a game a la League. It clearly isn't. I think Australia this year are the second favorites. Look at the REDs they have a scrum and they've topped the league in Super rugby. As for France they have one game in them at best, actually I don't think they have one now.

The question is do you think a team with South Africia (who smashed you btw), Tonga, Samoa and the United States got to the final on playing ability or the fact that an easy group meant an easy draw? I think the latter. England in my Opinion were excellent in 2003 and limited and mediocre in 2007 and by pure chance got to the final.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Australia, have had a scrum, you don't win TWO world cups without one. It was luck at the time that the Australia, as a country from it's national side right down through super 12's and regional comps followed the diktat that the scrum was just a way of re-starting a game a la League. It clearly isn't. I think Australia this year are the second favorites. Look at the REDs they have a scrum and they've topped the league in Super rugby. As for France they have one game in them at best, actually I don't think they have one now.
> 
> The question is do you think a team with South Africia (who smashed you btw), Tonga, Samoa and the United States got to the final on playing ability or the fact that an easy group meant an easy draw? I think the latter. England in my Opinion were excellent in 2003 and limited and mediocre in 2007 and by pure chance got to the final.


 
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but I do reckon that England 2007 were the poorest and least talented side ever to reach a RWC final. I'd say that luck must have been a factor, and yes, an easy run to the final is lucky, but also think that sheer bloody mindedness and an us-against-them _esprit de corps_ was also a major factor.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Australia, have had a scrum, you don't win TWO world cups without one. It was luck at the time that the Australia, as a country from it's national side right down through super 12's and regional comps followed the diktat that the scrum was just a way of re-starting a game a la League. It clearly isn't. I think Australia this year are the second favorites. Look at the REDs they have a scrum and they've topped the league in Super rugby. As for France they have one game in them at best, actually I don't think they have one now.
> 
> The question is do you think a team with South Africia (who smashed you btw), Tonga, Samoa and the United States got to the final on playing ability or the fact that an easy group meant an easy draw? I think the latter. England in my Opinion were excellent in 2003 and limited and mediocre in 2007 and by pure chance got to the final.


 
The Saffas smashed us in the pool stages, the final was pretty tight - but for the studs on Cueto's boot (who's lucky?) we might have pipped it.  A touch selective there.  Just a touch.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Tackled into touch. Nothing to see here. Move along now


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Tackled into touch. Nothing to see here. Move along now


 
I remember the camera angles being pretty inconclusive until the fatal shot that showed a foot on the whitewash.

you know that whole bereavement model (which I paraphrase badly), refusal, confusion, anger, acceptance?  The whole pub went through it in 30 seconds


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

I know it well. It's Gareth Jenkins' 'grieving curve', which he attempted to use as a figleaf to justify the pisspoor performances of his Wales side in the leadup to 2007, in particular the 62-7 (or whatever) drubbing that you Saes meted out at HQ.

Us Taffies have been residents on the grieving curve for over 20 years.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> I know it well. It's Gareth Jenkins' 'grieving curve', which he attempted to use as a figleaf to justify the pisspoor performances of his Wales side in the leadup to 2007, in particular the 62-7 (or whatever) drubbing that you Saes meted out at HQ.
> 
> Us Taffies have been residents on the grieving curve for over 20 years.


 
I went to that game, more than a touch surprised the Wales went with a second-string (good fuck, Alix Popham) when England were on the war footing for the WC.

Without wishing to pour salt, can I just remind you who landed 4 tries that day?


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> I went to that game, more than a touch surprised the Wales went with a second-string (good fuck, Alix Popham) when England were on the war footing for the WC.
> 
> Without wishing to pour salt, can I just remind you who landed 4 tries that day?


 
AWJ at 6, Will James at lock 

I had to Google Fatty Easter's tryvalanche, so completely had I erased that inglorious day from my memory.

I can see your boys sticking a load on us in the warmup games this year too, mind.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

That is a fucking awful, awful lineup. Probably the worst Wales has seen:

Wales: Byrne; A Brew, Shanklin, G Thomas (capt), D James; Sweeney, Cooper; I Thomas, Bennett, Horsman, W James, Sidoli, A W Jones, Charvis, Owen.
Replacements: Jenkins, R Thomas, T R Thomas, Popham, Phillips, Hook, T James.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

It was a pretty shit game to be honest, just too big a difference in approach - it was like Wales had been told not to push themselves and risk injury.

I will admit I got twatted and loved every minute of it though.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> It was a pretty shit game to be honest, just too big a difference in approach - it was like Wales had been told not to push themselves and risk injury.
> 
> I will admit I got twatted and loved every minute of it though.


 
If it was us giving an English second string a sixty point drubbing, I'd have done the same


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

On the back of the Tait conversation, I give you the All-New, Bendy Overhyped or Overrated XV game. I'll start:

15:
14:
13: De Luca
12: 
11:
10: Danny Cipriani
9: Mike Blair 
8: Sebastian Chabal
7:
6: Andy Powell
5:
4:
3:
2: Ross Ford
1: Kian Healey

Fill yer boots!


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

I feel duty-bound - Chavin.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

Mike Phillips would make a good blindside, shame he's at 9.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> I feel duty-bound - Chavin.



Predictable


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> Mike Phillips would make a good blindside, shame he's at 9.


 
I did consider three-times test Lion starter and grandslam winner, Spikey Pikey Mikey, and on current form he'd be a contender. He has, however, shown sufficient class in the past to be overlooked. As a blindside, he might sneak onto the bench, however.

I also considered Dr. Jamie, FWIW


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

What about Simpson-Daniel or The Hask?


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Predictable


 


Sorry.  He is a very talented player.  I'll leave it there.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> What about Simpson-Daniel or The Hask?


 
Sinbad, definitely no - he is a very, very good player, hampered by untimely injury.  I would have said The Gunshow but all of his performances over the past year have been impressive.  He's improved a hell of a lot, especially in terms of game insight.

There's actually very few I can think of.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> I did consider three-times test Lion starter and grandslam winner, Spikey Pikey Mikey, and on current form he'd be a contender. He has, however, shown sufficient class in the past to be overlooked. As a blindside, he might sneak onto the bench, however.
> 
> I also considered Dr. Jamie, FWIW


 
Mike Phillips is a shit 9, and always was.  He only caused bother for defences because he's huge.  If your game plan and team allow for that, fine. 

Roberts has a limited game, but for what it is he's very good at it.  He's a brute of a crashball.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Hayes at 3?
I might stick O'nan on the bench so he can lose them the game in the dying seconds, also.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Hayes at 3?
> I might stick O'nan on the bench so he can lose them the game in the dying seconds, also.


 
Who rated Hayes?  He only got the job because he was the least shit.

O'Gara is a legend in his own head, but is at least a decent player.  I'm not sure anyone raved about him.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> Mike Phillips is a shit 9, and always was.  He only caused bother for defences because he's huge.  If your game plan and team allow for that, fine.



Spikey is fantastic in defence, dangerous around the fringes, and allows a team to commit fewer players to defend a ruck, 'cos he always gets the ball away even when being ragged by the oppo backrow. Hasn't covered himself in glory in the last 18 months, but was fantastic in SA, and you knows it.



> Roberts has a limited game, but for what it is he's very good at it.  He's a brute of a crashball.


 
I know. I suspect he just isn't being used properly in the lumpy custard mix that is Howley's backline.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> Who rated Hayes?  He only got the job because he was the least shit.



Munster fans?



> O'Gara is a legend in his own head, but is at least a decent player.  I'm not sure anyone raved about him.



Munster fans! I only considered it to annoy sleater, if truth be told.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Spikey is fantastic in defence, dangerous around the fringes, and allows a team to commit fewer players to defend a ruck, 'cos he always gets the ball away even when being ragged by the oppo backrow. Hasn't covered himself in glory in the last 18 months, but was fantastic in SA, and you knows it.
> 
> 
> 
> I know. I suspect he just isn't being used properly in the lumpy custard mix that is Howley's backline.



So, basically, Phillips is a 6?  I agree.  

He can't pass.  That's unforgivable for a 9.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Munster fans?
> 
> 
> 
> Munster fans! I only considered it to annoy sleater, if truth be told.





good cantankering


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

We've had a few RL cross-overs who haven't delivered on promises.

Andy Farrell had the bitch of a time with injury so is forgiven, Chev Walker was abject for Bath though.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Getting there........

Farrell is in because injury or no, he wasn't up to it at his age anyway.

15: Cipriani
14:
13: De Luca
12: Chev Walker
11: Vainikolo
10: Farrell
9: Mike Blair 
8: Sebastian Chabal
7:
6: Andy Powell
5:
4:
3:
2: Ross Ford
1: Cian Healey


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

Eoin Redden 9
Dion O'Cunnigean (from ages ago) 8
Rennie Ranger NZ 11
Andrew Sheridan ??? 3
Al Baxter 1
Eddie Hakenui (one for Leinster fans) 10


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Getting there........
> 
> 15: Cipriani
> 14:
> ...


 
Farrell captained his country at 21, when he also won the Man of Steel (awesome name, btw).  Not exactly overhype, he delivered.  He trashed his knee soon after crossing codes, and faded out from there.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> O'Gara is a legend in his own head, but is at least a decent player.



Only when he wasn't betting on a game!


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Eoin Redden 9
> Dion O'Cunnigean (from ages ago) 8
> Rennie Ranger NZ 11
> Andrew Sheridan ??? 3
> ...


 
I'm mixed on Sheridan, I've seen him have stormers and stinkers.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Eoin Redden 9
> Dion O'Cunnigean (from ages ago) 8
> Rennie Ranger NZ 11
> Andrew Sheridan ??? 3
> ...


 
Slot 'em in, Flypanam. Slot 'em in!

Particularly enjoyed the Sheridan bit - that'll have Mattie frothing


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

^^
erk!


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Slot 'em in, Flypanam. Slot 'em in!
> 
> Particularly enjoyed the Sheridan bit - that'll have Mattie frothing


 
It's Tim Payne that gets me ranting.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Thing is, you can be a good player and still overhyped. It would be fairly easy to populate an XV exclusively with Saxons just as a result of the inane burblings of Ian Robertson, Stephen Jones, Fatty Barnes, Inverdale and Will Greenwood - it's as much about the meeja as it is the player.

Sheridan, for example, seems very uncomfortable with the hype, and comes across as a decent, modest guy IMO


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Sam Norton-Knight could be a shoo in, actually


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Thing is, you can be a good player and still overhyped. It would be fairly easy to populate an XV exclusively with Saxons just as a result of the inane burblings of Ian Robertson, Stephen Jones, Fatty Barnes, Inverdale and Will Greenwood - it's as much about the meeja as it is the player.
> 
> Sheridan, for example, seems very uncomfortable with the hype, and comes across as a decent, modest guy IMO


 
This is why I'm struggling to pick any.

Perhaps easier to go with an under-rated, an arrogant-without-the-goods or a physically-impressive-but-barely-sentinent XV.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> This is why I'm struggling to pick any.
> 
> Perhaps easier to go with an under-rated, an arrogant-without-the-goods or a physically-impressive-but-barely-sentinent XV.



Sounds like a challenge. You start.........


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

what about the 60 -80+ players Livermont has picked for france you would have a whole two squads.


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

Okey dokey.  Bang goes any chance of useful work this afternoon.

*Gobshite XV*

15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage
14:
13:
12:
11:
10:
9:
8:
7:
6:
5:
4:
3:
2:
1:


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

For balance, the quiet legends:

15: Jason Robinson
14:
13:
12:
11:
10:
9:
8:
7: Martyn Williams
6: Lord Richard Hill
5:
4:
3:
2:
1:


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> Okey dokey.  Bang goes any chance of useful work this afternoon.
> 
> *Gobshite XV*
> 
> ...


 
Imho


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

Gobshite XV

15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage
14:
13:Brian O'Driscoll
12:
11:
10:Ronan O' Gara
9:Austin Healy
8:Lol
7:
6:Alan Quinlan
5:Ali Williams
4:Bakkies Boatha/Justin Harrison
3:
2:
1:


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Gobshite XV
> 
> 15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage
> 14:
> ...


 
I'll admit I don't know much about Ali Williams, but not a bad list.

Campese a shoo-in.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

Whose the SA centre who played the Lions who just talked about how good he was? I've forgotten but he totally deserves the gobshite list


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> Campese a shoo-in.


 
Beat me to it.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Gobshite XV

15: Campese
14:
13:Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gavin Henson
11:
10:Ronan O' Gara
9:Austin Healy
8:Lol
7:
6:Alan Quinlan
5:Ali Williams
4:Bakkies Boatha/Justin Harrison
3:
2: Dylan Hartley
1:


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage
14:
13:Brian O'Driscoll
12:Luke McAllister
11:
10:Ronan O' Gara
9:Austin Healy
8:Lol
7:
6:Alan Quinlan
5:Ali Williams
4:Bakkies Boatha/Justin Harrison
3:
2:
1:


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

Right, some tidying needed

15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage/Campese
14:
13:Brian O'Driscoll
12:Luke McAllister/Gavin Henson
11:
10:Ronan O' Gara
9:Austin Healy
8:Lol
7:
6:Alan Quinlan
5:Ali Williams
4:Bakkies Boatha/Justin Harrison
3:
2: Dylan Hartley
1:

I was going to suggest Chuter at hooker, how the hell did I forget Hartley.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

The quiet legends:

15: Jason Robinson
14:
13: Allan Bateman
12:
11:
10:
9:
8:
7: Martyn Williams/Marty Holah
6: Lord Richard Hill
5:
4:
3: Adam Jones
2:
1:


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

Neil Back?  More ruthless than a gobshite.

Stuart Barnes was a prize one, as is Guscott.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Tough call finding a quiet scrum half, innit. GOE?


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

15: Jason Robinson
14:
13: Allan Bateman
12:
11:
10:
9:
8:
7: Martyn Williams/Marty Holah
6: Lord Richard Hill
5:
4:
3: Adam Jones/Jason Leonard
2:
1:


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> Right, some tidying needed
> 
> 15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage/Campese
> 14:
> ...


Move quinlan to 7 and have schalk berger at 6


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Shaggy at 14

15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage/Campese
14: Shane Horgan
13:Brian O'Driscoll
12:Luke McAllister/Gavin Henson
11:
10:Ronan O' Gara
9:Austin Healy
8:Lol
7:
6:Alan Quinlan
5:Ali Williams
4:Bakkies Boatha/Justin Harrison
3:
2: Dylan Hartley
1:


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Tough call finding a quiet scrum half, innit. GOE?


 
They're inveterate gobshites.  Dawson, Gregan.

Edwards it may well be.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Move quinlan to 7 and have schalk berger at 6



Seconded. Ireland doing well here.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

It's almost as hard to find gobshite props as it is to uncover quiet scrum halves


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

Fuck it, I wish I hadn't started two lists.

15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage/Campese
14: Shane Horgan
13:Brian O'Driscoll
12:Luke McAllister/Gavin Henson
11:
10:Ronan O' Gara
9:Austin Healy
8:Lol
7:Alan Quinlan
6: Schalk Burger
5:Ali Williams
4:Bakkies Boatha/Justin Harrison
3: Julian White
2: Dylan Hartley
1:


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage/Campese
14: Shane Horgan
13:Brian O'Driscoll
12:Luke McAllister/Gavin Henson
11:
10:Ronan O' Gara
9:Austin Healy
8:Lol
7:
6:Alan Quinlan
5:Ali Williams
4:Bakkies Boatha/Justin Harrison
3: Chris Horsman
2: Dylan Hartley
1:


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> It's almost as hard to find gobshite props as it is to uncover quiet scrum halves


 
If in doubt, look to Leicester.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage/Campese
14: Shane Horgan
13:Brian O'Driscoll
12:Luke McAllister/Gavin Henson
11:
10:Ronan O' Gara
9:Austin Healy
8:Lol
7:Alan Quinlan
6: Schalk Burger
5:Ali Williams
4:Bakkies Boatha/Justin Harrison
3: Julian White/Chris Horsman
2: Dylan Hartley
1:


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage/Campese
14: Shane Horgan
13:Brian O'Driscoll
12:Luke McAllister/Gavin Henson
11: Mirco Bergomasco
10:Ronan O' Gara
9:Austin Healy
8:Lol
7:Alan Quinlan
6: Schalk Burger
5:Ali Williams
4:Bakkies Boatha/Justin Harrison
3: Julian White/Chris Horsman
2: Dylan Hartley
1:


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> 15: Mike Brown/Delon Armitage/Campese
> 14: Shane Horgan
> 13:Brian O'Driscoll
> 12:Luke McAllister/Gavin Henson
> ...


 
whatshischops at loosehead at Queens is a bit of a dick.

The one who shaved the word 'sausages' or somesuch into his hair.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

Loose head props - they're all fucking saints!


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Loose head props - they're all fucking saints!


 
Marler?  I'm not sure where the line between 'character' and 'Christ, what a penis' is crossed.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

The quiet legends:

15: Jason Robinson
14:
13: Allan Bateman
12:
11:Simon Geoghan
10:
9:
8:
7: Martyn Williams/Marty Holah
6: Lord Richard Hill
5:Colin Meads
4:John Eales
3: Adam Jones
2:
1:Nick Popplewell


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

15: Jason Robinson
14:
13: Allan Bateman
12:
11:Simon Geoghan
10: Michael Lynagh
9: Gareth Edwards
8:
7: Martyn Williams/Marty Holah
6: Lord Richard Hill
5:Colin Meads
4:John Eales
3: Adam Jones
2:
1:


----------



## flypanam (Jun 16, 2011)

15: Jason Robinson
14:
13: Allan Bateman
12:
11:Simon Geoghan
10: Michael Lynagh
9: Gareth Edwards
8:
7: Martyn Williams/Marty Holah
6: Lord Richard Hill
5:Colin Meads
4:John Eales
3: Adam Jones
2: Keith Wood
1: Nick Popplewell


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

I must admit I'm losing the will.

In other news, I got my ticket for next season's HC final.  Which is pretty unlikely to feature Bath, but we live in hope.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

3am last night out on the piss in the 'Diff. Magnificent stuff, Spikey! Even when he ain't playing he gets himself inextricably trapped at the bottom of rucks.



























Mugfuckingnificent: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbyn...ar-mike-phillips-in-3am-shame-91466-28892546/


----------



## mattie (Jun 16, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Magnificent stuff, Spikey!


 
We might need a touch more context.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 16, 2011)

mattie said:


> We might need a touch more context.


 
Gaze again, ye doubter!


----------



## flypanam (Jun 17, 2011)

It's the white shoes! I'd call him names if I'd seen him wearing those.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 17, 2011)

Dean Ryan would have to figure in a gobhsite XV.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 17, 2011)

Look tat the guy in blue, he looks like an innocent bystander, like the Welsh team in general


----------



## mattie (Jun 17, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Gaze again, ye doubter!


 
Did you post that in installments?

Poor Pikester Mikester:
http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/141777.html


----------



## mattie (Jun 17, 2011)

bendeus said:


> I know it well. It's Gareth Jenkins' 'grieving curve', which he attempted to use as a figleaf to justify the pisspoor performances of his Wales side in the leadup to 2007, in particular the 62-7 (or whatever) drubbing that you Saes meted out at HQ.
> 
> Us Taffies have been residents on the grieving curve for over 20 years.





http://www.planetrugby.com/fun-games/missing-men

Well, we know who was at 8.

(Sod's law dictates they'll have changed the quiz by the time anyone clicks the link)


----------



## mattie (Jun 17, 2011)

What's going on here?

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3558_6994223,00.html


----------



## bendeus (Jun 17, 2011)

mattie said:


> What's going on here?
> 
> http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3558_6994223,00.html


 
Evidently more than being sat on by a bouncer out the front of McDonalds.


----------



## Red Faction (Jun 19, 2011)

flypanam said:


> 15: Jason Robinson
> 14:
> 13: Allan Bateman
> 12:
> ...


 
Axel and Gaillimh


----------



## bendeus (Jun 22, 2011)

Dai Young to be named new DoR at Wasps, according to numerous sources: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/13873749.stm

Interesting on a number of levels:

1) Dai would be leaving a club with no money and aging playing staff that is groundsharing with a football club and living on past glories to go to a club with no money and aging playing staff that is looking to groundshare with a football club and living on past glories. Still, at least he'll have a decent, playmaking 10 to work with.
2) It means that he won't be the next Wales coach after the inevitable Welsh pool-stage implosion leads to Gatland being shown the door.
3) Therefore, who will? Mallett, maybe?
4) Given Dai's less-than-glorious last season, I'm slightly surprised his stock is still high enough for Pests to come knocking
5) Who the fuck will coach the Blues? Who would want to given financial constraints, half-empty stadium and haemhorraging season ticket holders? Looks like they'll have to recruit within Wales, but who? Howley, Humphries, ......? Poor bastards


----------



## The Boy (Jun 22, 2011)

bendeus said:


> 3) Therefore, who will? Mallett, maybe?


 
I'm still hoping the FFR will bag him after the WC.  Just for a couple of years until Vern Cotter is ready.


----------



## mattie (Jun 24, 2011)

Really, just wtf is going on here?

http://www.planet-rugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_7002807,00.html

I can't believe Stade are in this mess.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 24, 2011)

mattie said:


> Really, just wtf is going on here?
> 
> http://www.planet-rugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,16024_7002807,00.html
> 
> I can't believe Stade are in this mess.





Car crash. Given the way things are going more generally, I would say that Stade won't be the only high-profile club with rich history going to the wall in the next few years.

((((Cardiff))))


----------



## mattie (Jun 25, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Car crash. Given the way things are going more generally, I would say that Stade won't be the only high-profile club with rich history going to the wall in the next few years.
> 
> ((((Cardiff))))



I'm hoping that doesn't mean the Blues are signing 'galacticos' based on money they don't actually have.

as an aside, I'm watching the Crusaders/Sharks game. Fuck me, it's dreadful.  The basic elementary skill of passing to a player and picking up the ball are absent, and the Sharks in particular are just witlessly driving into trouble and knocking on.  I've seen 4 bounce-passes in a ten minute period. 

Mike Phillips will love it here.

Seriously, SH club rugby is held up as the definition of attacking, inventive rugby.  It would appear this holds only if 'inventive' means 'wait for hapless Scrum-Half to bounce the ball past his first receiver'.  All the games I've seen have been dreadful.


----------



## bendeus (Jun 29, 2011)

Fucking priceless. Stan Laurel, the Welsh 'attack guru' is apparently the 'red hot favourite' to take over as head coach at Bath under Geech. 

Link

Mattie, I hear that Dignitas is still allowing foreign citizens to use its services!

Expect a clueless, disjointed backline, no go forward and lots of crabbing from side-to-side, coupled with aimless kicking.

Bath's loss will most certainly be Wales' gain - how the fuck does this joker have any credibility left?


----------



## flypanam (Jul 14, 2011)

The Boy said:


> I'm still hoping the FFR will bag him after the WC.  Just for a couple of years until Vern Cotter is ready.



Cotter won't ever get the French job. He's more likely to return to NZ in a year or two. 

I'm pretty pissed the Reds won the final. A quality Queensland side means a very good Aussie Side. Looks like we might be meeting NZ in the 1/4ers.

Lads, we need a World Cup thread...


----------



## bendeus (Jul 14, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Cotter won't ever get the French job. He's more likely to return to NZ in a year or two.
> 
> I'm pretty pissed the Reds won the final. A quality Queensland side means a very good Aussie Side. Looks like we might be meeting NZ in the 1/4ers.
> 
> *Lads, we need a World Cup thread...*









GET ON WITH IT!


----------



## flypanam (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm no thread starter...


----------



## mattie (Jul 14, 2011)

Leicester have just signed Julian Salvi, was immense when he was with us a few seasons ago.  A proper 7.  They've also signed Mathew Tait - and cleverly ditched Dan Hipkiss onto us.

Anyway, Rugby WC thread on way.


----------



## mattie (Jul 16, 2011)

Stephen Donald's been denied a work permit, which rather screws our plans at 10 for next season.

http://www.espnscrum.com/super-rugby-2011/rugby/story/144092.html


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 17, 2011)

England unveil an all-black kit to take to NZ, that'll go down well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/16/new-zealand-england-black-world-cup


----------



## mattie (Jul 20, 2011)

Chaps

What with all the concern over brain trauma, most worryingly with VdW and more recently with Berrick Barnes, I thought this article apposite:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jul/19/nfl-star-brain-injuries-destroyed

A dreadful situation.


----------



## bendeus (Jul 20, 2011)

mattie said:


> Chaps
> 
> What with all the concern over brain trauma, most worryingly with VdW and more recently with Berrick Barnes, I thought this article apposite:
> 
> ...


 
What happened to Berrick Barnes, Mattie?


----------



## flypanam (Jul 21, 2011)

Berrick Barnes has had 2/3 concussions in the super 15. He started to wear a boxing helmet to games arguing that the protection it offered his head was greater than rugby caps. He was right. Unfortunately the ARU and Super Rugby did not agree with him. So he's had to take a major sabbatical from the game. He'll be back though.

I think scrum caps should have more padding and cover a little more of the head. The IRB should sort it out.


----------



## bendeus (Jul 21, 2011)

I seem to recall that there's some concern among that blazers of the IRB that more body armour of any kind leads to more body armour, _a la_ gridiron. The idea that extra protection allows players to go in harder with less regard for their safety, which then requires more protection, which leads players to go in harder with less regard for their safety, which then requires more protection, and so on and so forth.

Dunno what the answer is, really, but agreed that the potential for neurological damage to players must be minimised to the maximum degree, particularly in an era in which players are bigger, stronger and faster than ever, causing ever more potential for serious injury in collision.


----------



## Red Faction (Sep 6, 2011)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14740402.stm

Q. What do you do with a 2 man advantage?
A. Not a lot

Suppose there's not too much point reading anything into these games.
Dragons had 5 men off with Wales, Munster had 9.

Predictions for the season ahead?

I fancy Treviso to make a good impression, Glasgow to fail miserably, and Munster to win hands down.

Interesting stat in the Premiership:  9 defending champions in the last 11 years have lost on the opening day.


----------



## bendeus (Sep 8, 2011)

Munster to win hands down?

Nah. Don't reckon.


----------



## Red Faction (Sep 9, 2011)

Have to hope.
Would certainly say something if they can win the league without a full front row, creaky forwards and creaky backs.
Still- some great young players coming through (in some positions) can't help but feel though like Ireland, the golden crop of players is on the wane.
No matter how talismanic Paul O'Connell may be, we're still waiting for him to find his form.


----------



## bendeus (Sep 9, 2011)

Red Faction said:


> Have to hope.
> Would certainly say something if they can win the league without a full front row, creaky forwards and creaky backs.
> Still- some great young players coming through (in some positions) can't help but feel though like Ireland, the golden crop of players is on the wane.
> No matter how talismanic Paul O'Connell may be, we're still waiting for him to find his form.



Be interested to see who can capitalise most effectively during the RWC and in its aftermath. The Os, for example, still seem to have a decent mixture of youth and grizzled old heads to draw upon; the pack from the side that beat Leinster, for example, boasted Duncan Jones, Mefin Davies, Ian Gough, Ian Evans and Jon Thomas as well as young Justin Tipuric, who was with the Welsh squad before they shaved it down to 30. A lot will also depend on player burnout, the competing demands of the HEC, and injuries to key squad members.

I reckon that more than ever this years ML will be seen as a development year by most sides, with the big guns rested/saved for the key HEC games. What's good about it, I guess, is that it should blood a fairly decent crop of youngsters, who have been biding their time in the shadow of the big boys. Hoping to see a fair few step up.


----------



## mattie (Oct 9, 2011)

Anyone know of any good rugby streams for club rugby?

I'm keen to watch a bit of premiership action, now that the World Cup is - ahem - over.


----------



## mattie (Oct 11, 2011)

Rumour has it Kyle Eastmond might get a game for Bath against the Dragons this w/e.

From what I understand of him, I expect to see great balance and footwork, good kicking and a look of incredulity around rucks.

There's also rumblings Olly Barkley might return.  Which is nice.


----------



## mattie (Oct 14, 2011)

mattie said:


> Rumour has it Kyle Eastmond might get a game for Bath against the Dragons this w/e.
> 
> From what I understand of him, I expect to see great balance and footwork, good kicking and a look of incredulity around rucks.
> 
> There's also rumblings Olly Barkley might return. Which is nice.



Bah. No Eastmond, but Bananaman is in.

A decentish team, some rested but quality in there. Keen to see how Mark Lilley does at tighthead, he's been in and around the squad and needs to step up to the next stage in his career soon. Heard good things about Charlie Beech as well, and of course there's Perenise on the bench.

15. Jack Cuthbert
14. Olly Woodburn
13. Matt Carraro
12. Matt Banahan
11. Tom Biggs
10. Tom Heathcote
9. Mark McMillan
1 Charlie Beech
2 Ross Batty
3 Mark Lilley
4 Will Spencer
5 Dave Attwood
6 Andy Beattie (c)
7 Guy Mercer
8 Simon Taylor
*Replacements*
16 Will Tanner
17 Nathan Catt
18 Anthony Perenise
19 Ryan Caldwell
20 Will Skuse
21 Chris Cook
22 Paul Roberts
23 Nick Abendanon


----------



## mattie (Oct 18, 2011)

Fooking Christ.

http://rugbyonslaught.blogspot.com/2011/09/manu-tuilagi-makes-190kg-bench-press.html

190kg?

I'm suspecting slight optimism on his part.  Or else his gym equipment's been labelled up wrong.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 18, 2011)

Maybe he does it while in the water - makes stuff easier to lift, right?


----------



## mattie (Oct 18, 2011)

I've yet to see a barbell that floats.


----------



## mattie (Oct 18, 2011)

Phew. I was worried we'd run out of things to bicker over.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15359520.stm

Roberts and Chavin, could be interesting. Until we consider it'll be Dan Parks at 10 - unless the Orange One goes at FH?


----------



## mattie (Oct 18, 2011)

To be fair, if he does go in at 10 that's looking a pretty tidy side indeed.  Not sure about 9 (haven't caught much of Lloyd Williams, and no huge fan of Richie Rees) or depth at wing/FB, but no mugs elsewhere.  Warburton, Williams and Rush would be a crafty old backrow.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Oct 18, 2011)

Lloyd Williams is still only a kid but I like what I've seen of him. Hopefully it'll work out for Chavin, the Blues have been dying out for a decent 10 since Robinson signed for Gloucester.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 18, 2011)

Henson to Blues is good news all round. Pity it ain't the Os, mind 

Lloyd Williams is going to be a class act, IMO.

Kids like Cuthbert and Fish coming through - Blooz looking good behind the scrum. Interesting to see where they'll play 1/2 p - surely FB now?

That's a very, very decent backline:

1/2p, James, Laulala, Roberts, Czekaj, Henson, Williams

Blues weakness is at 2 and 3, though. They're going to need more grunt up front if they're going to win ball for that backline.


----------



## 1927 (Oct 19, 2011)

Fuck knows what Gatland will do if Chavin starts playing well! He'll be the best water carrier in the business.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 19, 2011)

1927 said:


> Fuck knows what Gatland will do if Chavin starts playing well! He'll be the best water carrier in the business.



Bollocks to that. With Wellies fading fast, and Hook establishing once and for all that he's neither an international 10, 12 or 15, having a fit Henson regularly playing at 10 inside Jamie Roberts with Halfpenny at FB and Scott Williams at 9 is about as perfect a scenario as you can imagine. He's still only 29, remember.

We need backup to Priestland, backup to Roberts and FB cover. Henson fulfils all of these roles more effectively than Hook. Either start him on the bench as a Hook-esque supersub, or fulfil Gatland's long-held dream of playing him at 12 with Roberts at 13. This backline looks offensively and defensively immense:

1/2p, A.N. Other, Roberts, Henson, North, Priestland, Phillips

Attacking threat from pretty much everywhere across the backline, sublime distribution at 10-12. Awesome.

I can see Hook's Wales career become far, far more marginal than it already is.


----------



## 1927 (Oct 19, 2011)

Bendy, dont get me worng, I'd love to see him in a Welsh shirt again. I remember watching his first senior game of rugby as 17 yr old playing for Swansea against Leinster. He won the game on his own, the most naturally talented player I ever saw, would be awesome to see him comeback.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 19, 2011)

Gats has awesome manlove for Henson (similar, indeed, to my own). He has wanted Gav to play inside Roberts since 200-and-fucking-8! Imagine - they've both been fit during the intervening for the 15 minutes they played together against England in the warm up matches.

He would get that backline purring, and for all his defensive aptitude and his obvious improvement over the course of the tournament, I'm still not fully convinced by JD at 13.


----------



## mattie (Oct 19, 2011)

Good man, that Fran Cotton.  Of course, he'd be a great man if he could kick squeaky out of RFU, ideally literally and metaphorically.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-IRB-calling-for-scrummaging-law-changes.html

I don't understand why, when we're so concerned by props binding, we don't make it a condition that each prop must have an easily-gripped coloured patch on their jersey so the opposition prop isn't grasping thin air.

Better still, get rid of the hit.


----------



## The Boy (Oct 19, 2011)

mattie said:


> .
> 
> Better still, get rid of the hit.



Agreed


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 19, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Gats has awesome manlove for Henson (similar, indeed, to my own). He has wanted Gav to play inside Roberts since 200-and-fucking-8!


----------



## bendeus (Oct 19, 2011)

The Boy said:


> Agreed



Thirded


----------



## mattie (Oct 21, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


>





Jamie Roberts doesn't look the type.


----------



## mattie (Oct 21, 2011)

LV cup games this w/e.

For the Severn-bordering home nations, who are you playing?

We've got Worcester.  Notable for the fact they've got the flyhalf with the most illustrious eyebrows in world rugby and Alex 'likes a bit of a punch-up and a bit of powder on a Friday night and looks a bit like Prince Harry on steroids' Crockett.  They've also got serious gas on the wings, Marcel Garvey in particular has been impressive.  Which means none of the aforementioned will play.


----------



## mattie (Oct 23, 2011)

Lewis Moody's retired from England duty.

A case of jumping before being pushed, I suspect.  Good career, sad end.


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

The Daily Mash are being rude.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport...ands-seething-resentment-empire-201110174430/


----------



## bendeus (Oct 24, 2011)

mattie said:


> The Daily Mash are being rude.
> 
> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport...ands-seething-resentment-empire-201110174430/



Already been linked

E2A: You fucking colonialist bastards


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Already been linked
> 
> E2A: You fucking colonialist bastards



Has it?

Oh well.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport...ands-seething-resentment-empire-201110174430/


----------



## bendeus (Oct 24, 2011)

mattie said:


> Lewis Moody's retired from England duty.
> 
> A case of jumping before being pushed, I suspect. Good career, sad end.



Leaves you even shorter at openside than you were already, doesn't it? Who's coming through?


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Leaves you even shorter at openside than you were already, doesn't it? Who's coming through?



He was never an openside to begin with.

Tom Wood, sadly, sits in the same boat as being neither 6 or 7. Fourie is off to Japan (I think), Armitage to France. Which may leave us with Gunshow in the short-term, indisciplined - to put it mildly - on and off-pitch. Not properties you want in any rugby player, but especially not in a 7. He's a physical specimen to rank with almost anyone else, but sadly the grey matter seems a bit in short supply.

We've a raft of young lads who may step up (I hear good things about Clark, Gibson and Saull, although Gaskell looks more a 6), as indeed we have a few options at 8 (Fearns has played flanker but is more of an 8, I think that's where Bath see him lining up), but as they say, a bird in the hand.....

I think we might end up with two 6.5s for a while. Plus ca change.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 24, 2011)

I wonder whether Ben Morgan will remember he's English, or whether he'll decide he's Welsh (see Infidel Castro's post in one of the rygbi threads). He'd do very nicely for you at 8.


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

I'll consider him when he makes his mind up.

It's his call, although a slightly disconcerting one - I can't believe anyone would choose to weigh up options.  It comes across as a bit cheap.

I'm quietly hopeful that Carl Fearns makes the step up - looks a superb player, lost a year of his career to knee-knack but Geech fancied him at Bath.  He's got to get past Simon Taylor (remember him?) for the 8 jersey, and my money's on him giving it a good shot.  He's 22, so a good time for him to kick on.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 24, 2011)

mattie said:


> It's his call, although a slightly disconcerting one - I can't believe anyone would choose to weigh up options. It comes across as a bit cheap.



He just may not want to play for a bunch of lossers!!!!!!!!!111111!!!


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

bendeus said:


> He just may not want to play for a bunch of lossers!!!!!!!!!111111!!!



Yeah, 4th place in the 6N for the past 3 years.  He'd be mad to sign up for it.


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

And, on the flipside, Gunshow.

Hobson's choice.  Has he got a French Grandmother?


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

mattie said:


> He was never an openside to begin with.
> 
> Tom Wood, sadly, sits in the same boat as being neither 6 or 7. Fourie is off to Japan (I think), Armitage to France. Which may leave us with Gunshow in the short-term, indisciplined - to put it mildly - on and off-pitch. Not properties you want in any rugby player, but especially not in a 7. He's a physical specimen to rank with almost anyone else, but sadly the grey matter seems a bit in short supply.
> 
> ...



I tell a lie, Fourie is at Sale next year (it's the saffa centre Fourie who's off to Japan) - I reckon Hendrie might have a job at 7.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 24, 2011)

Ah, the _Saffa_ Fourie! As opposed to that heart-of-oak-stout-yeoman, err, Saffa, Fourie


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Ah, the _Saffa_ Fourie! As opposed to that heart-of-oak-stout-yeoman, err, Saffa, Fourie



This from the man who's spent the last few pages singing the praises of a taffie Tongan?


----------



## bendeus (Oct 24, 2011)

mattie said:


> This from the man who's spent the last few pages singing the praises of a taffie Tongan?



One who moved to Wales with his dad aged seven and is a product of Welsh school and age-grade rugby and Welsh academies, yes. His blood is Tongan; his rugby belongs to us!


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

You're worse than the kiwis.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 24, 2011)

Nice to be bickering about more mundane matters, btw. Am all worn out after the world cup. Missing Gabi already.


----------



## mattie (Oct 24, 2011)

Have I pointed out that England and Ireland lost only 1 game throughout the whole tournament?

That's the best record of the whole NH.

Someone's got to fly the flag.

*sniffs loftily*


----------



## bendeus (Oct 28, 2011)

There have been far too few mentions of Gavin Henson in the last four posts, so as an illustration of his arrogant, pool-ball-interfering, team-mate-disrespecting ways, I give you this:




			
				Chavin said:
			
		

> "I was really proud of the boys to be honest," said Henson of Wales' performances in New Zealand.
> "I'm a Welsh rugby fan at heart. It was amazing to watch I thought they were incredible. It was the best I've ever seen Wales play.
> "I nearly snuck in on that plane journey to the World Cup apart from this injury.
> "But looking at I didn't deserve to be there to be honest. Those boys have been together for over two years working really hard and it would have been unfair if I had of snuck on that.
> "They deserve all the plaudits they get because they were incredible. It wasn't so frustrating to watch then. I loved watching every second of it."



Fackin' wenkah!


----------



## mattie (Oct 28, 2011)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbyn...r-gavin-henson-ospreys-return-91466-29335524/

Shame.  Hairsprays needed another show pony.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 28, 2011)

mattie said:


> Have I pointed out that England and Ireland lost only 1 game throughout the whole tournament?
> 
> That's the best record of the whole NH.


And we're the only NH team to beat a SH one.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Oct 30, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Nice to be bickering about more mundane matters, btw. Am all worn out after the world cup. Missing Gabi already.



You should go and stalk the fucker, popping up in threads that you know fuck all about and acting like you've got the t-shirt.  It works for him.


----------



## The Boy (Oct 31, 2011)

Infidel Castro said:


> You should go and stalk the fucker, popping up in threads that you know fuck all about and acting like you've got the t-shirt. It works for him.



Possibly the strangest post.

Ever.

Edit:  Sorry.  My irony-meter was on the 'off' position.


----------



## mattie (Oct 31, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> And we're the only NH team to beat a SH one.



Singular 'team'?

England beat the Argies, which remains a straw I'll be clutching at for a good few months.

Sounds like Ben Youngs is going under the knife, and Wigglesworth has now sadly crocked his knee.  Which seems a touch ironic.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 31, 2011)

Infidel Castro said:


> You should go and stalk the fucker, popping up in threads that you know fuck all about and acting like you've got the t-shirt. It works for him.



I think I'm ably equipped to do that. A splendid suggestion

He'll be back for the (limited) autumn internationals with some more of his coruscating wit and startling insight, no doubt. It's always good to have someone to point and laugh at though, right?


----------



## bendeus (Oct 31, 2011)

mattie said:


> Singular 'team'?
> 
> England beat the Argies, which remains a straw I'll be clutching at for a good few months.
> 
> Sounds like Ben Youngs is going under the knife, and Wigglesworth has now sadly crocked his knee. Which seems a touch ironic.



Yeah. We beat Samoa, Fiji _and _Namibia. That's three!


----------



## bendeus (Oct 31, 2011)

Stephen Jones is getting a bit frothy in this article (no link due to Times paywall). Got to say he has a point (this is total chum for the Paulie Tandoori grass shagging feeding frenzy, mind)



> *Bring back the artists*
> 
> 
> Variety has all but disappeared from modern rugby, with skill and artistry replaced by one-dimensional, attritional and unattractive play
> ...



It's the IRB, stoopid!


----------



## mattie (Nov 1, 2011)

EFS just can't leave twitter alone:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/oct/31/gloucester-centre-twitter-owen-farrell


----------



## mattie (Nov 2, 2011)

bendeus said:


> There have been far too few mentions of Gavin Henson in the last four posts, so as an illustration of his arrogant, pool-ball-interfering, team-mate-disrespecting ways, I give you this:
> 
> Fackin' wenkah!



It all makes sense.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/rugby_union/3908324/Ospreys-are-to-ban-players-from-having-fake-tans.html


----------



## mattie (Nov 2, 2011)

Yay!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15565682.stm

Door, arse etc.


----------



## Red Faction (Nov 3, 2011)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15542912.stm

I am an entertainer, 
and I sing for charity. 
For Oxfam and for Shelter, 
for those worse off than me. 
Bangladesh, Barnardos Homes
and though I don't get paid, 
It does one good to do some work 
for things like Christan aid. ...


----------



## flypanam (Nov 3, 2011)

RF i see that Munster have signed Will Chambers for a short term contract. Dumper does like his ex league players. Should be a great game tomorrow though I think Leinster will do you by 10.

eta i'm going to the Quebec Final on Sunday should be an intersting exercis in how Canada views rugby.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 4, 2011)

Bumchin backing Mallett to be the next England coach

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15584860.stm

Just out of interest, a) do people think that he'd do a decent job for England, and b) do they agree with the article's assertion that coaching England represents 'the game's biggest prize'. Monetarily, maybe, but in terms of kudos?


----------



## The Boy (Nov 4, 2011)

Interestingly, Biarritz are really struggling in the Top14 this year.  Sitting bottom, although things might get better now that there internationals are back.


----------



## mattie (Nov 4, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Bumchin backing Mallett to be the next England coach
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15584860.stm
> 
> Just out of interest, a) do people think that he'd do a decent job for England, and b) do they agree with the article's assertion that coaching England represents 'the game's biggest prize'. Monetarily, maybe, but in terms of kudos?



I'm not convinced, mainly as I think key problems are higher up.

And I think you should re-read the article - the 'biggest prize' is the WC, and the thrust is that moving from Italy to England would be a step closer (stop laughing at the back), moving from NZ to England obviously would not, hence a potential lack of interest in the England job from Henry.

I still await the glorious whinges about 'arrogance' from our wonderfully modest celtic contingent.  It's been a few weeks, we need some more of that.  It's eerily quiet without it.


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## bendeus (Nov 4, 2011)

mattie said:


> And I think you should re-read the article - the 'biggest prize' is the WC, and the thrust is that moving from Italy to England would be a step closer (stop laughing at the back), moving from NZ to England obviously would not, hence a potential lack of interest in the England job from Henry.



So I should. The dangers of skim-reading 



> I still await the glorious whinges about 'arrogance' from our wonderfully modest celtic contingent. It's been a few weeks, we need some more of that. It's eerily quiet without it.



......says 'ee, _arrogantly_. Duw duw! Wind yewer neck in Rupert, g'boi! Oo d'yew think yew are, fucken' 6-nayshuns champions or summen?


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## mattie (Nov 6, 2011)

I appreciate the effort.


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 7, 2011)

flypanam said:


> RF i see that Munster have signed Will Chambers for a short term contract. Dumper does like his ex league players. Should be a great game tomorrow though I think Leinster will do you by 10.


Big season for Munster, they have to do well and blood some young players this year.

HC starting up soon.


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## mattie (Nov 7, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Big season for Munster, they have to do well and blood some young players this year.
> 
> HC starting up soon.



I was looking forward to seeing BOD at the Rec too.


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## mattie (Nov 9, 2011)

Armitage banned for the 4th time this year - 5 weeks for a high tackle on Tom Biggs, and 3 weeks concurrent ban for kneeing Dave Attwood.

Slow learner, that boy.


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## flypanam (Nov 9, 2011)

mattie said:


> I was looking forward to seeing BOD at the Rec too.



Eh?

Is BOD out for the start of the HC?


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## bendeus (Nov 9, 2011)

The entire HEC and 6N, mate:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15626082.stm

Very interested to see who Deccie puts in the centres now. Seems that you'll be blooding his successor sooner than you thought you might be.


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## flypanam (Nov 9, 2011)

McFadden will get the role. Dunno if thats a good thing or bad.


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## bendeus (Nov 9, 2011)

flypanam said:


> McFadden will get the role. Dunno if thats a good thing or bad.



What about 12. Surely they're not going to persist with D'Arcey, or is the cupboard that bare? Could your prediction of converting Fitzgerald come to pass, or might they shift Sexton out one (if Onan stays on)?


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## flypanam (Nov 9, 2011)

Lets see it's Kidney, so I guess he'll persist with D'arse. As for Fitzgerald he seems to be having a rather good time of it on the Leinster wing so like all my predictions you can ignore it. As for 'The Wanker' as he will stay on (he's 'Cork famous' don't ya know) Sexo will probably move out to 12. It's not a bad combination to be honest I do like the idea of 2 distributors. However Jamie Roberts for one will relish that 10/12 channel which from now on I will call the Thomastown Canal.


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## bendeus (Nov 10, 2011)

flypanam said:


> However Jamie Roberts for one will relish that 10/12 channel which from now on I will call the Thomastown Canal.


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## starfish (Nov 10, 2011)

Nathan Hines has retired from international rugby.

Was a great player for Scotland, one of our best over recent times. Was glad he won the Heineken Cup the other year, a player like him deserved a major honour.

Cheers Big Man.


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## flypanam (Nov 11, 2011)

True starfish, he was immense for Leinster.

Looking forward to Ulster welcoming Clermont on Saturday. Love watching Clermont.


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## Red Faction (Nov 12, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Big season for Munster, they have to do well and blood some young players this year.
> 
> HC starting up soon.



Interesting HC selections. 
Dont know much about this chambers chap. 
Were outplayed by Leinster. 
Too many penalties being given away tonight.


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 12, 2011)

Red Faction said:


> Interesting HC selections.
> Dont know much about this chambers chap.
> Were outplayed by Leinster.
> Too many penalties being given away tonight.


You can never ever write them off.


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## Red Faction (Nov 12, 2011)

heart in mouth
my goodness- WHAT A FINISH!!!

we scrum for fun...


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## bendeus (Nov 13, 2011)

Red Faction said:


> heart in mouth
> my goodness- WHAT A FINISH!!!
> 
> we scrum for fun...



...and O'Wens fails to ref your scrum for fun. What a surprise!


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## Red Faction (Nov 13, 2011)

see he pinged one of our lineout throws for not being straight?

thats just plain cheeky

either you choose to police the feed at set peices or you dont...


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## starfish (Nov 13, 2011)

Bloody hell Glasgow beat Bath.


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 13, 2011)

Edwards has signed with the welsh for another four years, good signing. Can't help but think the mess at the RFU made his mind up.


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## bendeus (Nov 14, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Edwards has signed with the welsh for another four years, good signing. Can't help but think the mess at the RFU made his mind up.



I think he may also enjoy working within a passionate, working-class rugby culture such as the one he is used to from his league days, as well as the strong working relationship he has always enjoyed with Gatland.

WRU has also offered very, very favourable terms from what I can gather. There's also the fact that Wales have some very decent prospects coming through, and that they're young. A decent coach will always want to shape excellence, IMO.

But yes, the farce at HQ probably didn't make his decision very difficult.


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## mattie (Nov 14, 2011)

Again, I'm not sure England needed a defensive coach.  There seemed very little interest from the RFU upon his notice of availability.

But, as you say, I'm sure very few people in world rugby relish being under the management of squeaky.

Personally speaking I'd have liked to see him in there, mainly to give a few 'characters' a slapping down and begin the process of getting the old boy's network torn down.


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## mattie (Nov 14, 2011)

Joe Worsley's retired due to a neck injury.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15719266.stm

Not sure he quite had the game for internationals - and certainly not as a 7 - but a rock in defence.


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## gabi (Nov 14, 2011)

mattie said:


> Again, I'm not sure England needed a defensive coach. There seemed very little interest from the RFU upon his notice of availability.
> 
> But, as you say, I'm sure very few people in world rugby relish being under the management of squeaky.
> 
> Personally speaking I'd have liked to see him in there, mainly to give a few 'characters' a slapping down and begin the process of getting the old boy's network torn down.



The RFU should've been looking at him as a head coach, not a defensive coach. He was ready for the step-up imo.

Your union's nuts basically.


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## mattie (Nov 14, 2011)

gabi said:


> The RFU should've been looking at him as a head coach, not a defensive coach. He was ready for the step-up imo.
> 
> Your union's nuts basically.



Insert a person as head coach based upon their ability in a different role?

An interesting proposition. One wonders why the RFU didn't consider it.


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## gabi (Nov 14, 2011)

He's been working under one of the best in the business for 4 years in his Wales job. He's clearly ready. Looks like he'd rather keep under the radar and take the money tho.


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## mattie (Nov 14, 2011)

One World Cup quarter Final and he's the best in the business.

Almost makes up for finishing 4th in the 6N for the last 3 years running.


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## bendeus (Nov 14, 2011)

mattie said:


> One World Cup quarter Final and he's the best in the business.
> 
> Almost makes up for finishing 4th in the 6N for the last 3 years running.



Yadda, yadda, yadda


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## bendeus (Nov 18, 2011)

Wales my favourite team. With the passage of time I am beginning to realise that Ireland are not half as horrendous as England, in much the same way that even Munster, though wrong in every way, do not embody evil in the same way that Leicester do.


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## mattie (Nov 18, 2011)

bendeus said:


> Wales my favourite team. With the passage of time I am beginning to realise that Ireland are not half as horrendous as England, in much the same way that even Munster, though wrong in every way, do not embody evil in the same way that Leicester do.




Unusually lucid


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## flypanam (Nov 18, 2011)

Mattie, I think bendy has finally gone mental.


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## mattie (Nov 18, 2011)

flypanam said:


> Mattie, I think bendy has finally gone mental.



I feel awful.  The signs were there.  Andy Powell.....


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## flypanam (Nov 18, 2011)

mattie said:


> I feel awful. The signs were there. Andy Powell.....



True. Ospreys too. Padded cell or drugs?


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## mattie (Nov 18, 2011)

flypanam said:


> True. Ospreys too. Padded cell or drugs?



Fewer drugs, definitely.


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## gabi (Nov 18, 2011)

Does anyone know when the next game of any note is? Ie, one involving the world champions? They must be due a tour over here sometime soon


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## mattie (Nov 18, 2011)

Hello magazine not covering rugby any more then?


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## gabi (Nov 18, 2011)

Lol. Nope, dont think they ever were.

The back pages of ever single newspaper in this country did cover the story you're referring to though. I assume midget-gate? And the eventual sacking of Tindall and Johnson over it?


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## mattie (Nov 18, 2011)

I'm just keen to see where your rugby knowledge (stop laughing at the back) comes from.

You seem very au fait with Mike Tindall's lovelife, and utterly clueless on just about every facet of the actual game of rugby.

Even the red-tops have _some_ discussion of rugby. I'm going to assume your regular reads don't.


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## gabi (Nov 18, 2011)

Fucking hell 

Bitter aren't we?


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## mattie (Nov 18, 2011)

I will admit I slightly begrudge having to explain the simplest of concepts, repeatedly.


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## gabi (Nov 18, 2011)

Er, what concept? You utter bell-end? No idea where this Hello! thing came from either..

You know sooooo much about 'virtually every facet of the game' - I hear there's a vacancy in west London.. g'wan man.. go for it


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## mattie (Nov 18, 2011)

I assumed your in-depth knowledge - and complete fascination with - the love-lives of rugby players was the result of your reading habits.

We're all products of our environment.  Maybe you picked it up in Toni and Guys, perhaps when you were having cocktails with your friends in Stringfellows.  I don't know.  I assumed it was hello magazine.  If I'm mistaken, I apologise.


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## gabi (Nov 18, 2011)

Try the front and back pages of every single newspaper in this country 

Maybe you missed it?


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## mattie (Nov 18, 2011)

How on earth are you so clueless about rugby then?


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## flypanam (Nov 18, 2011)

Next game for the AB's. Depends on how much money they think they can earn from a game.

Otherwise Ireland next June. Three test tour.


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## flypanam (Nov 18, 2011)

mattie said:


> How on earth are you so clueless about rugby then?



He don't like, he spent half his life trying to get away from it in NZ.


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## bendeus (Nov 21, 2011)

flypanam said:


> True. Ospreys too. Padded cell or drugs?



Who are these 'Ospreys' to whom you refer?

Lifelong Turk, me

Nurse!


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## bendeus (Nov 21, 2011)

gabi said:


> Does anyone know when the next game of any note is? Ie, one involving the world champions? They must be due a tour over here sometime soon



Determined to carry over your insufferable bellendery into the domestic season, Gabi?


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