# Fox hunting alive and well in Wales



## militant atheist (Dec 26, 2005)

Just got back from a trip into Welshpool and horrified to see several hundred hunt supporters applauding the local hunt riding through the middle of town.   

Slightly perplexed to see the local plod marshalling the event and closing off the roads to allow these people to demonstrate their defiance of the law. 

Today's Times is reporting that there have been *zero* convictions for illegal hunting, so what exactly are the police doing about ensuring that these fuckers are preventing from pursuing their barbaric 'sport'?

It appears that the law is drafted so badly it requires 'intent' to be proved and that therefore a valid defence would be that the hunt stumbled upon a fox.  .  In my view, the only way to stop these arrogant fuckers is to make their meetings illegal, y'know disperse them, use the powers the police have to disperse gangs of kids hanging around the Spar!


----------



## JTG (Dec 26, 2005)

Riding your horse around Welshpool is not, one suspects, illegal. Yet.

How do you know they were actually intending to hunt a fox?


----------



## militant atheist (Dec 26, 2005)

JTG said:
			
		

> Riding your horse around Welshpool is not, one suspects, illegal. Yet.
> 
> How do you know they were actually intending to hunt a fox?




Ummm.......the hunting horns, pack of baying beagles, perhaps the fact that the group of arrogant twats in red jackets on horseback call themselves a 'hunt' offered a clue to their intentions.  However generous you may want to be, this was a little more than 'riding your horse around Welshpool'.


----------



## scarecrow (Dec 26, 2005)

JTG said:
			
		

> How do you know they were actually intending to hunt a fox?



Boxing day is a biggie on the hunting calender AFAIK so I'd hazard a guess that they're not all off to do pony trecking up in the hills.


----------



## Yossarian (Dec 26, 2005)

Trail hunting's still legal though, where the dogs chase after a scent rather than a fox - so all the traditional hunts are out today doing that. 

Of course, it's extremely likely that at least some of them will "accidentally" bump into a fox...


----------



## JTG (Dec 26, 2005)

militant atheist said:
			
		

> Ummm.......the hunting horns, pack of baying beagles, perhaps the fact that the group of arrogant twats in red jackets on horseback call themselves a 'hunt' offered a clue to their intentions.  However generous you may want to be, this was a little more than 'riding your horse around Welshpool'.



So no actual evidence that they were going to hunt a fox then?


----------



## zenie (Dec 26, 2005)

Yep they do it by scent.

Police can't be with them 24/7 and they are hardly likely to arrest as we've noticed recently.

I suspect poilce were there to stop any trouble with AR activists too ey?


----------



## JTG (Dec 26, 2005)

scarecrow said:
			
		

> Boxing day is a biggie on the hunting calender AFAIK so I'd hazard a guess that they're not all off to do pony trecking up in the hills.



Yes it is. I still don't understand the outrage at the police allowing them to ride through Welshpool. Were they chasing a fox at the time? No? So which law were they breaking?

Fuck it, Yoss makes the point I'm making far better than I am. Not saying they weren't intending to, just that I wouldn't wish the police to act unless they were actually in the act of doing it.


----------



## militant atheist (Dec 26, 2005)

JTG said:
			
		

> So no actual evidence that they were going to hunt a fox then?



No JT, but that's my point really.  The law appears to be so badly drafted that it makes it virtually impossible to enforce.  What I objected to today was an arrogant show of defiance against the law, which if it had been carried out by a different group of people would have been likely to result in arrests.


----------



## scarecrow (Dec 26, 2005)

JTG said:
			
		

> Not saying they weren't intending to, just that I wouldn't wish the police to act unless they were actually in the act of doing it.



Which doesn't seem to be happening whatever the case may be. What's the point in bringing in new laws if they're not enforced? I suspect that OB hasn't got the stomach for the fight. But the majority (if not all) hunts stated that they would be unhappy replacing the real thing with drag hunting. I doubt they've had a change of heart.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 26, 2005)

I'm in Lincolnshire and I've been told that the local hunt here is definitely hunting foxes.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 26, 2005)

militant atheist said:
			
		

> No JT, but that's my point really.  The law appears to be so badly drafted that it makes it virtually impossible to enforce.



Based on this, apparently. Seems it's legal to ride across the countryside with a pack of hounds and if they just 'happen' to chase a fox then it doesn't count as hunting.


----------



## militant atheist (Dec 26, 2005)

If I can add here, what I object to is the sense that the police were taking the approach of stewarding a legitimate event.  I accept JTG's point that by poncing around Welshpool on their horses, the foxhunters are breaking no law.  *However,* a couple of years ago when I and a couple of hundred others protested against the BNP holding their 'Red, White and Blue' bash at Griffin's farm nearby, the approach of the police was very different.  As well as sealing off the surrounding area the police coralled the protestors in a small park for several hours.  If aggressive policing can be used, in their view to prevent a breach of the peace, why cannot a similar approach be taken to the foxhunters to prevent a breach of the law?  Couldn't be anything to do with class doyathink?


----------



## scarecrow (Dec 26, 2005)

I think all is needed is an investigative journalist with a bit of balls to spring the police into action. Sadly, anything getting negative media attention suddenly becomes a priority.


----------



## lewislewis (Dec 26, 2005)

What's the problem?


----------



## militant atheist (Dec 26, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> What's the problem?



Picture of ripped apart fox removed.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 26, 2005)

AFAIK the hunters get round the loophole by starting off the hunt as a drag hunt (so they say) 

A bundle of rags soaked in something that attracts the dogs is dragged around, the dogs catch the scent and off they go.

Then the dogs catch the scent of a fox and they get distracted and they chase the fox and, as a huntsman on TV said hte other day "we don't intend for them to chase foxes but once they catch the scent you can't stop them"

So basically,  I understand that, as long as they go through the motions of starting out as a drag hunt there's little that anyone can do under current legislation


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 26, 2005)

militant atheist said:
			
		

> link removed This is the problem.[/URL]




I apprecite that you feel strongly about this but I think that a lot of people would click on that picture and get very upset.  

Perhps you should break the link?


----------



## FruitandNut (Dec 26, 2005)

Town and Country - vive la difference!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 26, 2005)

militant atheist said:
			
		

> It appears that the law is drafted so badly it requires 'intent' to be proved and that therefore a valid defence would be that the hunt stumbled upon a fox.  .  In my view, the only way to stop these arrogant fuckers is to make their meetings illegal, y'know disperse them, use the powers the police have to disperse gangs of kids hanging around the Spar!


they should classify the red and black coats they wear as political uniforms under the 1936 publick order act and then nick the lot of them at every hunt.


----------



## scarecrow (Dec 26, 2005)

Erm - the link still exists in the complainant's quote


----------



## WasGeri (Dec 26, 2005)

I think the law should have been a lot stronger - I would have forced the hunts to disband.

Ah well - here's hoping some of them fall off and break their necks.


----------



## chio (Dec 26, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> Ah well - here's hoping some of them fall off and break their necks.



That's bang out of order.

How does these people going out and chasing foxes around for the day affect _your life_?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 26, 2005)

chio said:
			
		

> That's bang out of order.


is it bollox!


----------



## chio (Dec 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> is it bollox!



How can you justify _hoping_ someone will seriously injure themselves simply for chasing a few foxes around? It makes you sound like a deranged nutter.


----------



## 1927 (Dec 26, 2005)

militant atheist said:
			
		

> Couldn't be anything to do with class doyathink?



And which class excatly were they prejudiced against?

the idea that fox hunters are all "knobs" is very wide of the mark,there is a large per centage who are working class!


----------



## lewislewis (Dec 26, 2005)

What the hell, why do you want people to die?! What's wrong with you!


----------



## militant atheist (Dec 26, 2005)

1927 said:
			
		

> the idea that fox hunters are all "knobs" is very wide of the mark,there is a large per centage who are working class!



I think you mean "nobs" - no hang on, maybe you were right first time.  

Yeah, and loads of working class people can afford to keep huge great horses to go crashing around chasing foxes.    There are w/c hunt supporters granted, but if you'd ever actually seen a hunt you'd get a good idea who the people running the show actually are.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 26, 2005)

chio said:
			
		

> How can you justify _hoping_ someone will seriously injure themselves simply for chasing a few foxes around? It makes you sound like a deranged nutter.


foxhunting's not just about chasing a fucking fox. 

it's the ruling class asserting themselves and showing people in the countryside who's top dog. it's very much a class issue.


----------



## JTG (Dec 26, 2005)

militant atheist said:
			
		

> No JT, but that's my point really.  The law appears to be so badly drafted that it makes it virtually impossible to enforce.  What I objected to today was an arrogant show of defiance against the law, which if it had been carried out by a different group of people would have been likely to result in arrests.



Exactly. Like many laws brought in by this government, it's badly drafted and enacted more for effect than with any real prospect of it being enforced. That's what happens when we have government by PR people rather than government to ensure the country can be run effectively.


----------



## *Miss Daisy* (Dec 26, 2005)

^^^^ yep, thats my thoughts too


----------



## scarecrow (Dec 26, 2005)

chio said:
			
		

> How can you justify _hoping_ someone will seriously injure themselves simply for chasing a few foxes around? It makes you sound like a deranged nutter.



Erm -  - they're not just 'chasing foxes about'. They're chasing them to their deaths.

Of course justice is a strange thing. The law allows (very pitiful) penalties for people who torture domestic creatures to death. The killing of animals for foods is perfectly allowable.

But very few practises involving the torture of animals for fun are still allowable by law. It's a class thing. Live on a sink estate and attend the destruction of bull terriers in a hay ring and the law will take a very dim view. Chase their near cousin, the fox, with a red jacket, cut-glass accent and we close our eyes and hope you're following a scent. If you happen to break your neck doing so then surely that's part and parcel of a 'sport' where some creature inevitably loses it's life?


----------



## lewislewis (Dec 26, 2005)

But someone on this thread said they 'hoped' they would fall and break their necks- I don't think human life is comparable to fox life.


----------



## scarecrow (Dec 26, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> But someone on this thread said they 'hoped' they would fall and break their necks- I don't think human life is comparable to fox life.



But if they do break their necks in this particular pursuit, they certainly disagree with you, don't they?

Hey, if it can happen to superman...


----------



## lewislewis (Dec 26, 2005)

scarecrow said:
			
		

> But if they do break their necks in this particular pursuit, they certainly disagree with you, don't they?



No.


----------



## scarecrow (Dec 26, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> No.



Well then it's just a fucking unfortunate side-effect of dirty business then.


----------



## lewislewis (Dec 26, 2005)

scarecrow said:
			
		

> Well then it's just a fucking unfortunate side-effect of dirty business then.



Fine. But 'hoping' it happens is low. Agreed?


----------



## scarecrow (Dec 26, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> Fine. But 'hoping' it happens is low. Agreed?



Naaaa.

It's like soldiers get killed in their line of duty. All trained killers shouldn't be carrying out their duties from a position of comfort. Disagree if you're a duncey.


----------



## snadge (Dec 26, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> Fine. But 'hoping' it happens is low. Agreed?



no

barbaric sport so hoping the horse riding cunts fall off is ok by me.


----------



## lewislewis (Dec 26, 2005)

scarecrow said:
			
		

> Naaaa.
> 
> It's like soldiers get killed in their line of duty. All trained killers shouldn't be carrying out their duties from a position of comfort. Disagree if you're a duncey.



As much as I opposed the war in Iraq and still do, I didn't 'hope' soldiers died in it.

Edited to add- Basically my opinion is its wrong to wish death on people, its immature too.


----------



## WasGeri (Dec 27, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> Fine. But 'hoping' it happens is low. Agreed?



No, it is not. Stop trying to impose your views on others.

I can hope what the hell I want. You can't control _my mind._


----------



## WasGeri (Dec 27, 2005)

chio said:
			
		

> How does these people going out and chasing foxes around for the day affect _your life_?



It doesn't affect my life at all. Are you suggesting that people should only be concerned with things that directly affect them?


----------



## Dic Penderyn (Dec 27, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> Basically my opinion is its wrong to wish death on people, its immature too.



immature? yes.
wrong? maybe.
the truth? DIE YOU FUCKING RICH BASTARDS DIE!!!!!!  


heh....


----------



## snadge (Dec 27, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> Fine. But 'hoping' it happens is low. Agreed?




I've just realised what a patronising cunt you are, bet you raise your eyebrows when you say that.


----------



## lewislewis (Dec 27, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> No, it is not. Stop trying to impose your views on others.
> 
> I can hope what the hell I want. You can't control _my mind._



Fight the power ! Freedom for Tooting !


----------



## lewislewis (Dec 27, 2005)

snadge said:
			
		

> I've just realised what a patronising cunt you are, bet you raise your eyebrows when you say that.



All i said was its wrong to hope people die, what's your problem .


----------



## here comes john (Dec 27, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> I think the law should have been a lot stronger - I would have forced the hunts to disband.
> 
> Ah well - here's hoping some of them fall off and break their necks.



It was an understandable sentiment because this class of people are basically riding roughshod over the law. Imagine the outcry if it had been black ghansters or football hooligans rather than upper class knobs who had invaded the floor of the house of commons that time. It's perfectly right what someone said about the disapprobation of working class pursuits like dog fighting and yet the near sympathy even across the liberal media when it concerns abolishing a passtime of the ruling class. The problem is however blatantly the hunt supporters flout the law  - you' ll have a job getting the judges to convict, because many of the judges are themselves out partcipating in the hunts.


----------



## snadge (Dec 28, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> All i said was its wrong to hope people die, what's your problem .






> Fine. But 'hoping' it happens is low. Agreed?



that's my problem, agreed!


----------



## WasGeri (Dec 28, 2005)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> All i said was its wrong to hope people die, what's your problem .



I didn't say I wanted anyone to die, you fucking knob-end.

Hunters are scum - "the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible" as Oscar Wilde put it.


----------



## fanta (Dec 28, 2005)

Are there not more slightly important and pressing issues facing the people of Wales - and indeed the whole if the UK - that are worth worring about rather than fucking foxhunting?

Who gives a fuck about some toffs chasing foxes in the grand scheme of things?


----------



## Pingu (Dec 28, 2005)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4561952.stm

*ponders breaking out his old cammo jacket*

*looks at midriff and decides it may no longer fit him*



sabbing is a young mans game...


----------



## Funky_monks (Dec 29, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> foxhunting's not just about chasing a fucking fox.
> 
> it's the ruling class asserting themselves and showing people in the countryside who's top dog. it's very much a class issue.



Aye, thats probably why the only prosecutions that have resulted from it (AFAIK) were some working class lads from Liverpool coursing a hare.


----------



## tobyjug (Dec 29, 2005)

militant atheist said:
			
		

> Just got back from a trip into Welshpool and horrified to see several hundred hunt supporters applauding the local hunt riding through the middle of town.
> 
> !




You must have missed national media coverage about hunting over the last few days. The government were told the law was unworkable, and it is proving to be just that.


----------



## JGWacky (Dec 29, 2005)

fanta said:
			
		

> Who gives a fuck about some toffs chasing foxes in the grand scheme of things?



The foxes may have something to say bout that  
*scarpers*


----------

