# Language learning support/community thread



## red rose (Jan 19, 2013)

Inspired somewhat by the mental health thread, I thought it might be nice to have a thread for people who are learning a foreign language to get advice and encouragement from each other, possibly find a native speaker of the language that they're learning to help them out and get answers to any desperately needed translations.

If you use the thread for advice or help learning a language then it would be nice if you were also willing to offer help to others who are trying to learn your native language. Quid pro quo as it were 

To start: I am a native *English* speaker, I know a little *French* (not enough to be of much use I'm afraid) and I am currently learning* Nepali.*

Who else is currently learning a foreign language?

Those of you that have learned a second or even third language - what techniques did you find helped you the most?


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 19, 2013)

I'm still learning German. Living in the country obviously helped most, but I still try to read stuff in German, nothing too complicated. Just about to order some books by Jakob Arjouni, who has just died at the ridiculously young age of 48.


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## Belushi (Jan 19, 2013)

I've been learning German for the past couple of years at the Goethe Institute but didnt go back in September because I was busy buying a flat; hope to go restart again next September I find it really bloody hard.


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## Greebo (Jan 19, 2013)

red rose said:


> Who else is currently learning a foreign language?<snip>


Polish (Michel Thomas method plus a few other bits) aiming to be fluent in it for basic everyday use, by this summer.


red rose said:


> Those of you that have learned a second or even third language - what techniques did you find helped you the most?


1) Little and often - relying on one lesson a week leaves far too much time to forget.
2) Repetition, repetition, repetition.
3) Work out what makes things stick in your memory and use it.
4) To get the hang of the pitch, stresses, rhythm, and intonation of the language you're learning, find an audiobook in that language, read by a woman if you're female, or a man if you're male. Never mind if you barely understand a word of it, half the battle is getting the voice right.
5) If you're past the very first steps but find the broadsheets and classics too much like hard work, try the tabloids, glossy magazines, and comics. The sense of achievement of finishing a whole page without breaking into a sweat is worth it.
6) Don't expect it to come overnight; why should it when you spent at least 12 years learning how to use your mother tongue properly?


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## Greebo (Jan 19, 2013)

Belushi said:


> I've been learning German for the past couple of years at the Goethe Institute but didnt go back in September because I was busy buying a flat; hope to go restart again next September I find it really bloody hard.


Two things floor me even now with German - the strings of consonants and the grammar (which just plain refuses to stick). 

Make that three - the voice isn't right yet except on a really good day. OTOH enough of it can be just about remembered and used even when I'm half dead on my feet and distracted, and I usually do better than a machine translation.


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## Greebo (Jan 19, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> I'm still learning German. Living in the country obviously helped most, but I still try to read stuff in German, nothing too complicated. Just about to order some books by Jakob Arjouni, who has just died at the ridiculously young age of 48.


If you enjoy Nick Hornby, try Matthias Sachau or Tommy Jaud.


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 19, 2013)

Greebo said:


> If you enjoy Nick Hornby, try Matthias Sachau or Tommy Jaud.


 
Echt? German Nick Hornby's? The mind boggles.


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## Greebo (Jan 19, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Echt? German Nick Hornby's? The mind boggles.


Seriously, they're two authors (similar in style and genre to him) who got me past the idea that all German fiction and literature was either boring or incredibly hard work.


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 19, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Seriously, they're two authors (similar in style and genre to him) who got me past the idea that all German fiction and literature was either boring or incredibly hard work.


 
Fair dos. First book I read in German was this.







This is a good one, too.


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## Greebo (Jan 19, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> <snip>This is a good one, too.


I got the audiobook of that last year, now all I need is to get around to listening to it.


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## red rose (Jan 19, 2013)

Greebo said:


> 4) To get the hang of the pitch, stresses, rhythm, and intonation of the language you're learning, find an audiobook in that language, read by a woman if you're female, or a man if you're male. Never mind if you barely understand a word of it, half the battle is getting the voice right.
> 5) If you're past the very first steps but find the broadsheets and classics too much like hard work, try the tabloids, glossy magazines, and comics. The sense of achievement of finishing a whole page without breaking into a sweat is worth it.


These are very good points - I've started watching some of the Nepali soap operas that are uploaded to youtube recently for just this reason.

I'm just looking into the Michel Thomas method now, it's really interesting


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 19, 2013)

I always mean to brush up on my japanese  so it becomes something more than a mish mash of words and phrases.  buuuut  i kinda suck at motivation... and  my attempts and french and german at school were abysmal


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## Greebo (Jan 19, 2013)

red rose said:


> <snip>I'm just looking into the Michel Thomas method now, it's really interesting


IMHO it's good for building confidence by getting a quick start, but it's less good for reading and writing, because it's all about the spoken word. OTOH it means you don't have to keep decoding the spelling while learning the words. 

Also, the sessions are pretty intense because you soon start using adult length sentences ("Is this a bank or a club?") and modal verbs ("You are supposed to do this, not me.").  AFAIK this is very unusual.  Next to no grammar drills so far, you learn it on a need to know basis.


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## Greebo (Jan 20, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I always mean to brush up on my japanese so it becomes something more than a mish mash of words and phrases. buuuut i kinda suck at motivation... and my attempts and french and german at school were abysmal


Tbh all your ability 10+ years ago to learn two European languages has bugger all to do with how easy or difficult improving your Japanese will be for you as an adult. It's a tonal language with completely different grammar, notation, and cultural mindset.

Having said which, unless you want a formal qualification in it, you might do better booking a block of lessons with a one to one tutor (or in a small class) instead of starting completely from scratch.


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## weltweit (Jan 20, 2013)

I learnt some German when I lived there for 6 months about 15 years ago. I went to evening classes and immersed myself the whole time (including avoiding other Brits while I was there). When I came back I wanted to keep it up so I got satellite TV installed pointed at Eutelsat which had German channels and I took an evening course leading to an A level.

Now, so many years later I am ashamed to say it has gotten quite rusty, I could still travel around without trouble but for business use it is probably too far gone :-(

eta: while in Germany I used to guage my progress by how much of the Frankfurter Allgemein I could understand. It was quite hard going.


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## Greebo (Jan 20, 2013)

FWIW when I went back to Germany for the first time in 20 years I was ashamed to find that my German had become so "verlernt" (forgotten) that it had gone from consecutive interpreting level to roughly that of a 5 year old. Some of it came back by the end of the stay, but not all. Hence trying to make myself at least watch, hear, and read it when I've got the time and energy.

BTW native English, German and French to degree level, a few words & phrases in umpteen other languages mainly because of having had to sing in them, plus a bit of medical Latin & gardener's Latin (which doesn't really count).


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## winterinmoscow (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm an English native speaker. I have intermediate French and am learning Lao. 

I am my own worst enemy because I am a faddist and know a bit of lots of languages, but would like to get at least 1 to a much better level of fluency


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 20, 2013)

Learning Mandarin (still pretty basic level after a couple of years here) but can't stick with anything. I keep on having periods of motivation followed by longer periods of barely putting any effort in. My situation just seems too easy not to learn it sometimes, even though I live in China. I wanted to get proper lessons but with a new family, I've been tightening the purse strings. Maybe if I had someone I could study with, who was learning at a similar level would be good but my social life has also been dire since moving to Hubei from Guangdong. I've had a couple of Chinese friends teach me but I've not really enjoyed the lessons too much.


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## Belushi (Jan 20, 2013)

Great idea for a thread red rose.

The biggest thing I regret from not paying any attention at school is not learning a language.

I did actually speak welsh as a child but living in England since I was 11 means I can only remember a few words today.


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## Sue (Jan 20, 2013)

If you're going to do it properly, it's hard work and there aren't any shortcuts. Watching TV/reading magazines etc is helpful but you do just need to sit down and learn the vocab and grammar. It may not be exciting but there's no way round it. I' d also say finding a class is really important to make sure you get the pronunciation right and get used to interacting in the language.


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## red rose (Jan 20, 2013)

That's very true Sue, the structure and grammar are very important.  However after I learned the alphabet and basic sentence structure I found that I wasn't making any progress with just theoretical learning (I'm not sure how else to describe it) and the best way I've found to learn new vocab is to keep reading articles or trying to work out how to say every-day phrases.  

I haven't found the conversation exercises in my book to be very realistic, whereas if I have to work out for myself how to explain what I've been doing that day, or if a Nepali friend texts me asking where we should meet up and I have to work out how to say it in Nepali then it sticks in my mind a lot more easily.  It helps that my Nepali friends sometimes like to play a game where they insist that I respond to them in Nepali and refuse to move the conversation forwards until I've managed it


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## maomao (Jan 20, 2013)

If any females* are seriously learning Mandarin I'd be happy to introduce my wife who could do with a little polishing of her English too.

*her request not mine


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## Greebo (Jan 20, 2013)

red rose said:


> <snip>It helps that my Nepali friends sometimes like to play a game where they insist that I respond to them in Nepali and refuse to move the conversation forwards until I've managed it


IME half the battle is being willing to either make mistakes or find another way of saying what you wanted to say but don't know how to.


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## maya (Jan 21, 2013)

red rose said:


> Those of you that have learned a second or even third language - what techniques did you find helped you the most?


It's actually not that hard to pick up a language pretty quickly if you live in that country and hear it around you all the time and immerse yourself in it-
so to simulate that effect I'd suggest listening to it a lot, TV and radio broadcasts, what have you- plus audio books or film clips on YouTube and so on-

You'd be surprised how much easier it becomes just after a short time if you keep doing this on a regular basis... You could also try to find some webpages or articles online to read when you've got the time, supplied by Google Translate or a dictionary/phrasebook for when you're stuck... If you also can find some sort of chatroom/bulletin board where people speak in authentic spk for you to learn a bit more about how the language develops organically and how people really talk to each other in the street outside of textbooks, that's also a tremendous help- If that's not your thing, find a native willing to converse with you on Skype or some similar service, and you'll be a pro in no time (and also be flooded w/ marriage offers, so try to pick your partner a bit selectively also if that's not your thing  )

(^That's the best method to learn, i think- if you mix it all together, films and sounds and books AND a little bit of the boring course bits just to remind youself of what you've actually learned... But following your interests instead of tolling over a dry textbook works so much better, IMO.)

- Good luck!  I'm currently trying to learn French, as i apparently did pretty well in school but now i don't remember a thing (but still find myself able to read books/comics very slowly, and understand a little bit of it spoken in films-but they just talk and talk too bloody fast, the bastards!)
Despite all that, I'm still unable to speak it, not even a little bit... I just stammer and besides I only ever learned to conjugate two verbs, to have and to be. So I'm completely fucked...  Still, it's so beautiful I think. Would love to learn spanish or italian aswell, but don't think i really have the brains to manage any non-european language, it'd be too alien for me to grasp I reckon...
My brother suddenly soared and got A++++ in japanese on university level as an adult, we were pretty shocked as he never did that well in school before, but once he got to study what he wanted his motivation returned big time... Motivation is the key.


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## october_lost (Feb 25, 2013)

Great idea for a thread, but a month in no updates?

Just before Xmas, my gf convinced me to stop going to my mandarin class. Been studying on and off for two years. It wasnt cheap by any means. The proviso was she would teach me. Two months+ in, her schedule, the ebb and flow of our relationship means she has only been able to put aside time to speak about three times. I am starting to forget stuff.

I am now looking on to either get back on Skype, get a tutor or see about an evening course. Probably in that order.

Also, wanted to start practising my Spanish again. Anyone got experience learning more than one language at a time?


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## weltweit (Feb 25, 2013)

october_lost said:


> ....
> Also, wanted to start practising my Spanish again. Anyone got experience learning more than one language at a time?


I don't think I can do it, I get them muddled together in my mind.
Then if I tried to speak a German sentence, parts of it were in French


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## red rose (Feb 25, 2013)

I found that too actually.  When I first started trying to speak nepali I would reach for words and come up with french because it was more familiar.

Now if I try to speak french I end up with nepali words


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## red rose (Feb 26, 2013)

Proper update time:

Starting this thread gave me the motivation to finally try to watch a few nepali films (none of them are subtitled) and I was surprised by how much of the storylines I could follow   It might be because most of them are remakes of famous hollywood films but I think it's at least partly due to my studying 

I've also been studying on the tube to and from work every day.  I'm getting a bit put off by the funny looks I get though, one guy just outright gawked at me for the entire journey when I was writing some vocab   I don't understand why it get such weird reactions.

I've got a friend from nepal staying with me for a while from Friday so hopefully it will give me a chance to practise 

How is everyone else doing?


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## Mrs Magpie (Feb 26, 2013)

Belushi said:


> I did actually speak welsh as a child but living in England since I was 11 means I can only remember a few words today.


(((cariad)))


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## Mrs Magpie (Feb 26, 2013)

Belushi said:


> I've been learning German for the past couple of years at the Goethe Institute but didnt go back in September because I was busy buying a flat; hope to go restart again next September I find it really bloody hard.


I may be able to help you there. If you fancy a pint (or a tea) in Brixton with my other half he speaks perfect German and loves a chance to speak it. He's teaching a friend German via Skype. I will PM you his phone number if you like. He used to do a regular meet-up with fluent German speakers but it fell by the wayside after a couple of years for one reason and another.


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 26, 2013)

After 7 years I have only just found the confidence to move into an all Spanish speaking house. In that time I have watched others pick up the lingo to almost fluent levels in months.

It is the subtleties that scare me. I've just written marketing blurb in English and I am totally lost about how to make the sophistication work in Spanish.

Language can be as complicated, or as simple as you want it to be. Some people manage to be very eloquent with a very limited vocabulary.

Good advice in this thread. For me, the only thing that works is total immersion and repetition. Trying to learn from theory alone was pointless.


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## Sweet Meiga (Feb 26, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Polish (Michel Thomas method plus a few other bits) aiming to be fluent in it for basic everyday use, by this summer.
> 
> 1) Little and often - relying on one lesson a week leaves far too much time to forget.
> 2) Repetition, repetition, repetition.
> ...


I've never heard of that! In your own experience, is there really a difference?


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## Greebo (Feb 26, 2013)

Stanley Edwards said:


> It is the subtleties that scare me. I've just written marketing blurb in English and I am totally lost about how to make the sophistication work in Spanish.<snip>


Ask your spanish-speaking friends; not for a direct translation but something (in Spanish) along the lines of "I want to make what I'm writing look more like a magazine advert, can you help me please?"  Rough out what you can in the basic Spanish you know, then get their help polishing it to get the right tone.


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## Remus Harbank (Feb 26, 2013)

If anyone has any German questions, ich bin hier für Euch


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## Greebo (Feb 26, 2013)

Sweet Meiga said:


> I've never heard of that! In your own experience, is there really a difference?


There is a bit - to sound closer to the right accent and intonation, I need to pitch my voice down for German (this hurts my throat but otherwise I sound too juvenile) and up a bit for French.


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## Greebo (Feb 26, 2013)

red rose said:


> Proper update time:
> <snip>I've also been studying on the tube to and from work every day. I'm getting a bit put off by the funny looks I get though, one guy just outright gawked at me for the entire journey when I was writing some vocab  I don't understand why it get such weird reactions.<snip>


Well done with the films and making yourself study.  As for the reactions on the tube, people are rude and nosy buggers, end of.

Not as much as I should here, I've got excuses (including the 20 stone one in the other room), but they're just that, and this stuff isn't going to learn itself.   at self.


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## Sweet Meiga (Feb 26, 2013)

Greebo said:


> There is a bit - to sound closer to the right accent and intonation, I need to pitch my voice down for German (this hurts my throat but otherwise I sound too juvenile) and up a bit for French.


Thanks, that makes sense 
I was overthinking and thought that maybe the reasoning behind that technique was that women memorise things better if they are read by a woman or something


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## Mrs Magpie (Feb 26, 2013)

Belushi my husband is definitely well up for a beer and German night if you fancy it....


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 26, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Ask your spanish-speaking friends; not for a direct translation but something (in Spanish) along the lines of "I want to make what I'm writing look more like a magazine advert, can you help me please?" Rough out what you can in the basic Spanish you know, then get their help polishing it to get the right tone.


 
I would need a Spanish friend with very high level copywriting skills. It isn't as easy as just making it 'read like a magazine advert'. I'd sooner not take the chance.


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## smorodina (Feb 27, 2013)

Forever studying French... found that _bandes desigee_ work best for me..


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## october_lost (Feb 27, 2013)

smorodina said:


> Forever studying French... found that _bandes desigee_ work best for me..


And speaking and listening?


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## Lo Siento. (Feb 27, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Polish (Michel Thomas method plus a few other bits) aiming to be fluent in it for basic everyday use, by this summer.
> 
> 1) Little and often - relying on one lesson a week leaves far too much time to forget.
> 2) Repetition, repetition, repetition.
> ...


 
Excuse my cynicism, but isn't your goal rather contradicted by point 6? I mean, even if you lived in Poland, I wouldn't expect your Polish to be "fluent" in any sense I understand that word in 6 months, let alone learning at home...

The 4 points quoted are correct, although I would add that I've never seen anyone who significantly improved their language skills at home, without classes and without interactions with real human beings...


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## smorodina (Feb 27, 2013)

october_lost said:


> And speaking and listening?


Not so much  
I'm painfully shy in a bad way. I can't bring myself to speak as i realise that's it's going to be a disaster.. Catch 22 in a way.. Mind you, when i drink my inhibitions disappear and my french is perfect 
* i do not recommend this technique


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## Greebo (Feb 28, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> Excuse my cynicism, but isn't your goal rather contradicted by point 6? I mean, even if you lived in Poland, I wouldn't expect your Polish to be "fluent" in any sense I understand that word in 6 months, let alone learning at home...<snip>


Yes, but I know myself enough to realise that if I settle for learning to say "yes", "no", "cheers", "please", "thank you", "where are the toilets?", "no onion in this", "I don't understand", and "please speak English" I won't even get that far.  

As it is, my Polish has improved from zero to using a few modal verbs, a few prepositions, learning the negative form of "it" and "what", the polite female and male forms...  Nowhere near perfect, and I struggle to remember complex phrases, but better than just waiting until I could afford one on one tuition (this year, next year, sometime, never).  As far as I'm concerned, if people working for the diplomatic service can become fluent enough (not mother tongue level, just fluent in everyday general stuff) in 6 months of working (more or less full time) at learning another new language from scratch, then it might just about be possible for me.   Unless, that is,  I acknowledge right now that it's overambitious and therefore don't even try.


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## Greebo (Feb 28, 2013)

smorodina said:


> Forever studying French... found that _bandes desigee_ work best for me..


Oh yes, Asterix FTW.


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## october_lost (Mar 3, 2013)

So I have taken the effort to watch regularly cartoons and soap operas. But I was curious, should my time watching this be made to try and comprehend everything spoken, to minute detail, or just absorb the flow of the language?


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 3, 2013)

october_lost said:


> So I have taken the effort to watch regularly cartoons and soap operas. But I was curious, should my time watching this be made to try and comprehend everything spoken, to minute detail, or just absorb the flow of the language?


Listening practice is for working on your comprehension. If you want to improve your structure and range, I'd try reading and writing.


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## maomao (Mar 3, 2013)

october_lost said:


> So I have taken the effort to watch regularly cartoons and soap operas. But I was curious, should my time watching this be made to try and comprehend everything spoken, to minute detail, or just absorb the flow of the language?


I'd do both. Choose bits of what you're watching and either transcribe them (though that's very difficult if you're a beginner) or if you have a script rote learn it till you're sure what every word means. But just little bits. Watch the rest of it at normal speed and see what you cn absorb.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 3, 2013)

maomao said:


> I'd do both. Choose bits of what you're watching and either transcribe them (though that's very difficult if you're a beginner) or if you have a script rote learn it till you're sure what every word means. But just little bits. Watch the rest of it at normal speed and see what you cn absorb.


totally disagree, sorry. You should use materials to help you with whichever skill they relate to - there's sod all point transcribing something you're hearing word for word, because it's not something you would actually do when you're using the language.


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## maomao (Mar 3, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> totally disagree, sorry. You should use materials to help you with whichever skill they relate to - there's sod all point transcribing thing you're hearing word for word, because it's not something you would actually do when you're using the language.


*shrug*

That's exactly how I learned Chinese but most Chinese TV has subtitles. Repeating and imitating aren't skills you use in conversation but they're good building blocks.


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## Greebo (Aug 12, 2013)

Okay, I've now got a few useful bits under my belt, but the Michel Thomas course so far has left out vocabulary which could be important.  There's not much point in being able to ask politely where the toilets are, if you're not also taught words which might be part of the answer.  eg "left", "right", "straight ahead", "behind you", "come with me", or "follow me".

No numbers or colours yet either.  It's just as well that I've also got a rough guide phrase book.


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## Limejuice (Aug 12, 2013)

Greebo said:


> There's not much point in being able to ask politely where the toilets are, if you're not also taught words which might be part of the answer. eg *snip* "come with me" *snip*


 
You might also want to learn how to respond: "My mother warned me about this." in the same language.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 12, 2013)

Been slowly progressing. Did the 1st Pimsleurs Mandarin in Jan/Feb then haven't put much effort in until the last couple of weeks. I got about 1/2 way through the 2nd Pimsleurs and decided it's too boring so I'm back to mixing and matching. I'm just going through various videos and anything new I'm writing down on a word doc and going through it every day, then deleting the phrase once I'm confident I've learnt it. Not ideal but going through audio/books with audio/software just seems to bore me after a few days.

Saw this the other day and it looks interesting. http://www.fluentu.com/
Basically gets youtube vids in whatever language then breaks down all the dialogue with translations and lists all the key words associated with it. Also has some audiobooks with breakdown of vocab. I'm quite reluctant to pay for anything though!


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## Greebo (Aug 12, 2013)

Limejuice said:


> You might also want to learn how to respond: "My mother warned me about this." in the same language.


 
Thanks, I needed that.


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## Dovydaitis (Aug 13, 2013)

been wanting to learn German for ages, even have some beginner online things but I just can't seem to get the motivation to


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## Greebo (Aug 13, 2013)

Dovydaitis said:


> been wanting to learn German for ages, even have some beginner online things but I just can't seem to get the motivation to


 
Okay, if you could speak German tomorrow and money was no object, how would you use the language?  BTW I'm asking this to try and work out what sort of incentive might work for you.


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## Fez909 (Aug 13, 2013)

This might be useful to language learners: http://www.duolingo.com/

So far they have

Spanish
English
French
German
Portuguese
Italian


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## Dovydaitis (Aug 13, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Okay, if you could speak German tomorrow and money was no object, how would you use the language? BTW I'm asking this to try and work out what sort of incentive might work for you.


 
If I do my PhD (starting MA next month) then I would need German for half of my sources. Have managed to 'get by' for my undergrad but the subject matter was new territory so ideal for PhD


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## Greebo (Aug 13, 2013)

Dovydaitis said:


> If I do my PhD (starting MA next month) then I would need German for half of my sources. Have managed to 'get by' for my undergrad but the subject matter was new territory so ideal for PhD


 
Holiday and business German courses are unlikely to suit you then.  But helping your PhD sounds a pretty good incentive to me.  

Says the person killing time here instead of memorising a bit more Polish.   at self.


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## mwgdrwg (Aug 15, 2013)

I'm going to be learning Japanese in October. Super excited about it. Anyone with any experience or advice?


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## october_lost (Aug 15, 2013)

I decided I needed to up the ante, and I am doing mandarin Skype lessons about 3-5 hours a week with lots of personal study. Feel I have made some progress, though my listening needs to pickup.

Since I have a good foundation in mandarin, well, been learning it over a long time, I read somewhere that doing multiple languages is okay as long as they are staggered (ie dont start learning them at the same time) and aren't similar. Really want to learn Spanish as well and can't foresee me perfecting mandarin and then coming back years later. Bad idea. Therefore, aiming to do an hour of class time a week in that.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 16, 2013)

october_lost said:


> I decided I needed to up the ante, and I am doing mandarin Skype lessons about 3-5 hours a week with lots of personal study. Feel I have made some progress, though my listening needs to pickup.
> 
> Since I have a good foundation in mandarin, well, been learning it over a long time, I read somewhere that doing multiple languages is okay as long as they are staggered (ie dont start learning them at the same time) and aren't similar. Really want to learn Spanish as well and can't foresee me perfecting mandarin and then coming back years later. Bad idea. Therefore, aiming to do an hour of class time a week in that.


 

Got any tips for me? I'm doing shit and I live in China


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## october_lost (Aug 16, 2013)

I know youre being flippant, but...there probably are no shortcuts, it's a sod to learn. Just have fun doing it. I just try and dissect a lot of music I like to listen to, mainly heibao and cuijian, but also watch stuff like feichengwurao and xiyangyang. The majority of its meaning escapes me like, but you burn out if you just stare at books for hours at a time.

It's amazing when you return to stuff weeks later, how much you have managed to pick up...


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## Greebo (Aug 16, 2013)

october_lost said:


> <snip>It's amazing when you return to stuff weeks later, how much you have managed to pick up...


 
Agreed.  The brain seems to need time to sort out and make sense of what you're trying to add.  Sometimes, letting the language just wash over you, even if it makes almost no sense at all, makes it easier to get a grip on it later.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 16, 2013)

october_lost said:


> I know youre being flippant, but...there probably are no shortcuts, it's a sod to learn. Just have fun doing it. I just try and dissect a lot of music I like to listen to, mainly heibao and cuijian, but also watch stuff like feichengwurao and xiyangyang. The majority of its meaning escapes me like, but you burn out if you just stare at books for hours at a time.
> 
> It's amazing when you return to stuff weeks later, how much you have managed to pick up...


 

I don't have any fun doing it


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## Greebo (Aug 16, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> I don't have any fun doing it


 
What can I say?  Sometimes it is shit and you just have to wade through to get to the good stuff.

I've cried myself to sleep before now at the sheer frustration of German grammar (agreement of adjectives and noun endings, in particular) refusing to stick in my memory.  But it's not always like that.

Perhaps you could find something frivolous in that language, a children's cartoon or the trashiest tabloid/comic you can tolerate. Then try working through that, looking for the bits you can puzzle out?


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 16, 2013)

Greebo said:


> What can I say? Sometimes it is shit and you just have to wade through to get to the good stuff.
> 
> I've cried myself to sleep before now at the sheer frustration of German grammar (agreement of adjectives and noun endings, in particular) refusing to stick in my memory. But it's not always like that.
> 
> Perhaps you could find something frivolous in that language, a children's cartoon or the trashiest tabloid/comic you can tolerate. Then try working through that, looking for the bits you can puzzle out?


 
At the moment, I'm just watching as many films as I can then watching the odd 'learning' video and noting down phrases I don't know and read through them a few times when maybe 3 or 4 times a day. Then just building up some vocab with some videos I've found. I also listen to the odd podcast. But I doubt I'm spending more than 30 mins a day learning anything. It's not the most productive way to do it but it's better than nothing.


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## Greebo (Aug 16, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> At the moment, I'm just watching as many films as I can then watching the odd 'learning' video and noting down phrases I don't know and read through them a few times when maybe 3 or 4 times a day. Then just building up some vocab with some videos I've found. I also listen to the odd podcast. But I doubt I'm spending more than 30 mins a day learning anything. It's not the most productive way to do it but it's better than nothing.


Don't be so hard on yourself.  As long as you do it often and regularly, it doesn't matter if each little bit is only half an hour or even less.  In fact, short bursts like that might go in and be remembered more easily than longer sessions of over an hour but only once a week.


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## october_lost (Aug 16, 2013)

Agreed. I try and break stuff up. Books, music, listening exercise, flash cards, iPad app. 

If you're in China you should easily be able to find a receptive audience for language exchange. But I have to agree with Lo Sientos' previous comments about the need for tutoring. Having someone tell me off reguarly for bad pronunciation has really helped.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 17, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself. As long as you do it often and regularly, it doesn't matter if each little bit is only half an hour or even less. In fact, short bursts like that might go in and be remembered more easily than longer sessions of over an hour but only once a week.


 
Sorry, i made it sound like I actually do almost 30 mins everyday, it's more like I'll never do more than 30 mins, often won't do anything. I go through bursts of learning (mainly in the holidays) but when I go back to work I just cba.



october_lost said:


> Agreed. I try and break stuff up. Books, music, listening exercise, flash cards, iPad app.
> 
> If you're in China you should easily be able to find a receptive audience for language exchange. But I have to agree with Lo Sientos' previous comments about the need for tutoring. Having someone tell me off reguarly for bad pronunciation has really helped.


 
I'm actually married to a local and have had tutoring from friends to help with my pronunciation in the past. It never lasts though as I get bored of it. I often get annoyed with the tutors too as I don't like being taught


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## Greebo (Aug 17, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Sorry, i made it sound like I actually do almost 30 mins everyday, it's more like I'll never do more than 30 mins, often won't do anything. I go through bursts of learning (mainly in the holidays) but when I go back to work I just cba.<snip>


 
Knowing what you should ideally do and actually managing to do it are two very different things.  Do what you can when you can - if two minutes are all you can spare, so be it.  Any time at all is better than none.  Got an appointments diary for work or other stuff?  Book it in there.  Use time in the lift, queueing time, commuting time - whatever.  Be obsessive about it.


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## maya (Aug 22, 2013)

Sorry for slightly derailing the thread here as this is just a question for you, oh language-mighty ones... German crew, could you look at this title of a game I found yesterday: "_Wo jagen hund und fuchs?_" By the power(?) of deductive reasoning, plus convenient familiarity with scandinavian (i.e. germanic) languages which share word similarities, I've guessed that it must mean something along the lines of: "Who is [a/the] dog and ? chasing?", or the other way around perhaps: "who's chasing the dog and ?"
... Am I on the right track here, or does it mean something else entirely? (Also amused by the seemingly terse description underneath which states the game is "_Für Jungen und Mädchen von 3 1/2 bis 6 Jahren_"- of course just a normal subheading pointing out the age group of the game, but something about the words just make it sound so stern and commanding it's like... _Jawohl!_ They _demand_ you enjoy the game, or else... (!) It looks fun though, so probably being a bit unfair here- but something about the german language sounds a bit icy cold at times- nowt wrong with that of course, just a bit alien and odd...

(*sorry if the -ing tense is incorrect, but my english isn't that good either TBH, so probably grammar mistakes there too...  )


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## tbtommyb (Aug 22, 2013)

maya said:


> Sorry for slightly derailing the thread here as this is just a question for you, oh language-mighty ones... German crew, could you look at this title of a game I found yesterday: "_Wo jagen hund und fuchs?_" By the power(?) of deductive reasoning, plus convenient familiarity with scandinavian (i.e. germanic) languages which share word similarities, I've guessed that it must mean something along the lines of: "Who is [a/the] dog and ? chasing?", or the other way around perhaps: "who's chasing the dog and ?"
> ... Am I on the right track here, or does it mean something else entirely?


 
Confusingly, 'wo' means 'where' and 'wer' means 'who'. But beyond that my German is still shitty and so I'm guessing it means 'where do dog and fox hunt?', or something similar...


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## Greebo (Aug 22, 2013)

tbtommyb said:


> Confusingly, 'wo' means 'where' and 'wer' means 'who'. But beyond that my German is still shitty and so I'm guessing it means 'where do dog and fox hunt?', or something similar...


 
That's a good literal translation - I think the game might be fox and hounds/geese, if it's a board (similar to the one for solitaire) with pegs or marbles.


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## maya (Aug 22, 2013)

tbtommyb said:


> Confusingly, 'wo' means 'where' and 'wer' means 'who'. But beyond that my German is still shitty and so I'm guessing it means 'where do dog and fox hunt?', or something similar...





Greebo said:


> That's a good literal translation - I think the game might be fox and hounds/geese, if it's a board (similar to the one for solitaire) with pegs or marbles.


You're quite right- ! Thank you.(-just managed to discover that the english translation is actually printed on the other side of the box!  ... double d'oh!  )

Quote: "*Where do dog and fox hunt?*"
"- _Scientific observation of children at play has opened new doors: easy learning with functional playthings. With this game the child learns to understand the logical continuity of a story._"
^^
-- It's actually quite nifty- A big plastic cube consisting of several puzzle-shaped pieces with illustrations on each piece, which you can take apart and connect in all sorts of different ways to make up a long "story" about what happens next... Really charming period illustrations too (late sixties/early seventies?) ... Anyway, thanks for the help and sorry about the digression! Danke schön/vielen dank- , x


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## Greebo (Aug 23, 2013)

maya said:


> You're quite right- ! Thank you.(-just managed to discover that the english translation is actually printed on the other side of the box!  ... double d'oh!  )<snip>


 
you're welcome, Nichts zu danken.


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## Fez909 (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks for keeping bumping this thread. It reminds me to do some Spanish.

Progress is currently being hampered by being Northern. I keep getting mealtimes mixed up because they (duolingo) use Southern English phrases, like "dinner" for "tea".


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## red rose (Aug 23, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Progress is currently being hampered by being Northern.




Sorry but


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## goldenecitrone (Aug 23, 2013)

tbtommyb said:


> Confusingly, 'wo' means 'where' and 'wer' means 'who'. But beyond that my German is still shitty and so I'm guessing it means 'where do dog and fox hunt?', or something similar...


 

Only confusing until you know this fact and then simply swap them round in your head. Or keep repeating 'Wo wohnst du?' 'Wer bist du denn?' till it sinks in.


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## Greebo (Sep 1, 2013)

Reality check after last weekend:
1) My Polish is nowhere near good enough - yet.
2) At least I was trying to use it where I could - others weren't even using "please", "thank you", "yes", "no", and "excuse me/sorry" (the same phrase is also useful for asking "Hello, please can I get some service here?" without causing annoyance).
3) Gestures get you a long way towards filling in the gaps, so can cartoon drawings (biro and post its FTW).
4) No matter how good the phrase book, it's no good if both your hands are occupied eg on the dancefloor.
5) Getting past selfconsciousness about looking and sounding stupid (local people will probably think that anyway) is difficult, but pays off.
6) Next time I need to stop hanging around with the English-speaking crowd I arrived with and get a lot more exposure to the language, including turning on the telly even if I don't understand a word of it.

So it continues...


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## october_lost (Sep 1, 2013)

The cycle of not being as good as you thought you were is pretty much continual...

http://www.fluentin3months.com/
Anyone seen or heard of this guy? I find him a tad annoying, but basically he seems to argue for total immersion by only using the language you're trying to learn. Has some good words of encouragement.


----------



## Riklet (Sep 1, 2013)

I've read various things in Spanish before, but mostly nothing too long or arduous.

I'm now over half way through "Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal" which is great, as I've read it in English and know the story, but it´s still a real book with tons of vocabulary and expressions I've had fun working out.

I left Spain for summer holidays in late June and haven´t spoken or listened to daily (but still semi-regularly), but I'm not feeling as rusty as I might have, partly from reading this book, facebook and news in Spanish.  

One thing I found difficult in recent Skype talks was listening comprehension though, with my mates generally speaking fairly fast and with a strong Andalusian accent. I'll probably need to get used to that again, but I'm really looking forward to going back in a week.

Does anyone have any suggestions of things to listen to in Spanish, in the meantime?


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## Greebo (Sep 1, 2013)

october_lost said:


> The cycle of not being as good as you thought you were is pretty much continual...<snip>


I knew that I was going to struggle, what I hadn't taken into account is that the sort of social chitchat which happens during a family wedding weekend is nothing (I mean even with regard to vocabulary) like what I was learning.   


october_lost said:


> <snip>Anyone seen or heard of this guy? I find him a tad annoying, but basically he seems to argue for total immersion by only using the language you're trying to learn. Has some good words of encouragement.


Never heard of him before, and although what he recommends isn't possible for everyone to do (ie total immersion) there are some bits of what he says which seem useful - including the slightly consoling fact that the longer you take to learn it, the more slowly you'll forget it.


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## october_lost (Sep 1, 2013)

Riklet said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions of things to listen to in Spanish, in the meantime?



I am really keen on Heroes Del Silencio and Jullietta Venegas. As for films, youre spoilt because Spain produces a lot of dramas.


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## october_lost (Sep 1, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Never heard of him before, and although what he recommends isn't possible for everyone to do (ie total immersion)


I think Skype makes it a genuine possibility if you use it enough. You just won't get through the same range of encounters.


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## Greebo (Sep 1, 2013)

october_lost said:


> I think Skype makes it a genuine possibility if you use it enough. You just won't get through the same range of encounters.


Guess who hasn't got real broadband?


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## Fez909 (Sep 1, 2013)

Is anyone learning multiple new languages simultaneously? Sorry if it's already been mentioned in the thread (I have read it, but don't recall anyone saying so).

I'm enjoying Spanish but I would like to learn another language as well. Would that be helpful or confusing? Would it depend on the other language I chose? For example, a romance language and another romance might be confusing vs a romance and a Germanic? Or perhaps two romance languages would complement each other. Or maybe it's best if I just concentrate on one...


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## Greebo (Sep 1, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Is anyone learning multiple new languages simultaneously? Sorry if it's already been mentioned in the thread (I have read it, but don't recall anyone saying so).<snip>


FWIW I started German one year after starting French, but that was at school - none of the teachers said or thought that it was too difficult to learn two languages at once.  I'm thinking of taking Polish quite a bit further, then throwing Spanish in (only got a few words of that) and possibly something else but we'll see, as I still need a bit of time to keep the languages already learnt at a useful level.  IME to some extent one language can reinforce another (eg if "ham" is similar in both languages and has the same gender) but it can also make things confusing at times.

If you're fairly confident that you've got the absolute basics in Spanish (including having a feel for the spelling and pronunciation), you'd probably be okay adding another language at this point.  Anyway, there's one way to find out.


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## Fez909 (Sep 1, 2013)

Nice one.

Right then. I don't know which one to choose next. I'm tempted by German as I'm likely to go back there soon - probably multiple times. But then I've always been embarrassed that I don't know any French. I know less than a handful of words and have no idea how to pronounce words which I can recognise as French immediately. Have never been to France but would like to, and of course the French don't like speaking English to Englishmen. Whereas in Germany everyone is happy to speak English.

Hmmm!


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## Greebo (Sep 1, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> <snip>Right then. I don't know which one to choose next.<snip>


You've already got your tongue around Spanish, French has quite a bit in common with it (spelling wise at least, even if j is often "h" in Spanish and "zh" in French), and you'll probably find yourself going through there to get to Germany, unless you fly every time.  The other good thing is that a lot of French children learn Spanish (not English) as their first foreign language.

Not sure I agree that everyone in Germany is happy to speak English (although they'll generally at least try, unlike a lot of French people).  The further east and the further into the areas where you don't get a lot of British or American tourists (North Sea coast?), the more you'll need whatever German fragments you can dredge up.


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## october_lost (Sep 2, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Is anyone learning multiple new languages simultaneously? Sorry if it's already been mentioned in the thread (I have read it, but don't recall anyone saying so).
> 
> I'm enjoying Spanish but I would like to learn another language as well. Would that be helpful or confusing? Would it depend on the other language I chose? For example, a romance language and another romance might be confusing vs a romance and a Germanic? Or perhaps two romance languages would complement each other. Or maybe it's best if I just concentrate on one...


Yeah a few pages back I indicated I was starting Spanish after learning Chinese for however many years. Recommendation I had read was to have good foundation in one before contemplating another, and that it ideally shouldn't be part of the same family. 

Long term I would love to learn farsi and I have a strange fascination with the Vietnamese language. What good either will do me...


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## Greebo (Sep 2, 2013)

october_lost said:


> <snip>Long term I would love to learn farsi and I have a strange fascination with the Vietnamese language. What good either will do me...


You never know - the world's political situation has changed almost overnight more than once.  Utility aside, it can be a way of accessing literature and films which aren't available (yet) in translated versions.  Also, if you live in (or move to) a large city like London, there may well be native speakers within a very short distance of you.


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## Favelado (Sep 2, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Thanks for keeping bumping this thread. It reminds me to do some Spanish.
> 
> Progress is currently being hampered by being Northern. I keep getting mealtimes mixed up because they (duolingo) use Southern English phrases, like "dinner" for "tea".



Yeah but your "u" vowel is ready to go in words like "autobus". English southerners sound absolutely awful when they first try and speak Spanish because of their dribbly, flaccid vowels.

Bomb the south! ¡Viva el norte!


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## Greebo (Sep 5, 2013)

Signed up for the first term of beginners' Polish at Morley College.  The textbook looks as if it's going to use immersion (entirely in Polish and aimed at complete beginners) - eek!

Anyone else signing up for a course in the near future?


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 5, 2013)

Yeah, put the forms in to go on a Japanese course which starts early next month


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## Greebo (Sep 17, 2013)

Week two - it's all getting a little bit competitive.  Not about what we do in the actual class, but who's found what to top it up with since last week.


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 3, 2013)

Well, had the first lesson last night. First time I've done any personal education (outside of work) in 17 years! I was ridiculously nervous! It was quite fast paced, but just the right amount of pressure I thought. The class was full with people from all over the world, which was really great.

Actually looking forward to going over my notes and re-writing them neatly tonight


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## Greebo (Oct 3, 2013)

Week four - even I-don't get-it-guy is beginning to understand bits and work out the relation between the blocks of letters and how they're pronounced.  A cheshire cat of a grin broke across his face at one point.

I'm still struggling to write it - but at least I'm not the only one having trouble with some of the car crash consonants and knowing when to leave some of it out.  Gradually working out how to decode what I'm hearing or reading.

Numbers, sounds and the alphabet (again, but necessary), greetings and introductions, formal vs informal, places, and three verbs - to have, to live, to be.


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## Greebo (Oct 8, 2013)

FFS!  Polish-is-a-very-difficult-language woman (the one who did last year, then managed to forget it over the summer) is in two minds about coming back in January as she doesn't think she's learning much.

Given that she's convinced that it's difficult and therefore doesn't seem to do anything between classes at all it's no wonder that she's getting nowhere fast.  

Sort of getting there.


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## Fez909 (Oct 8, 2013)

Shit shit shit.

Thread-shamed. Haven't done any Spanish in ages now. 

Gonna go do an hour or so in a sec. Thanks for the bump


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## Greebo (Oct 9, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> <snip>Haven't done any Spanish in ages now.
> 
> Gonna go do an hour or so in a sec. Thanks for the bump


If it's any consolation, I've done next to nothing to keep my French active this year, and I really should unless I want a lot more of it to turn passive.


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 9, 2013)

Lesson two for me tonight, have a feeling it's going to get a bit harder. Looking forward to it!


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## Greebo (Oct 22, 2013)

Tonight was the last lesson before missing one week for half term.

A shedload of nouns, how to work out genders and their endings, colours, weather, how people are, and a general recap of previous weeks.

It'll be interesting to see who's got around to doing what in a fortnight's time.


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## weltweit (Oct 22, 2013)

Not really learning, I tried out my rusty German on a phone call last week, they understood me. Of course the German I was speaking to had better English than I had German, but that is often the way.


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 23, 2013)

Lesson 4  tonight, still really loving it. Though it's definitly going to get harder, the first three lessons were just an introduction really.


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## Greebo (Oct 23, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Not really learning, I tried out my rusty German on a phone call last week, they understood me. Of course the German I was speaking to had better English than I had German, but that is often the way.


It probably made the person you were talking to more inclined to meet you halfway because they knew you weren't assuming that they should speak (and understand) English.


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 23, 2013)

I can't wait to go practice what I've learnt 'in the wild'. Driving my family a little nuts as I'm practicing on them


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 23, 2013)

Why are you learning Polish, Greebo?


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## Greebo (Oct 23, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> Why are you learning Polish, Greebo?


Mostly pride and sheer cussedness. 

That, and my new sister in law is Polish.

Why Japanese?


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 23, 2013)

I went to Japan recently and fell in love with the place and language, want to be able to speak a bit when I go back


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## Greebo (Oct 30, 2013)

Moyja komorka jest czarna ale ta nie jest nowa.

My mobile phone is black but not new.


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## love detective (Oct 30, 2013)

Bardzo Dobra

My is spelt Moja not Moya though (at least it is when the gender of the thing being possessed is feminine, Moj when male, and Moje when neutral)


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## Greebo (Oct 30, 2013)

love detective said:


> Bardzo Dobra
> 
> My is spelt Moja not Moya though (at least it is when the gender of the thing being possessed is feminine, Moj when male, and Moje when neutral)


Thanks for that - I'm still at the stage of remembering sounds more than spelling.    OTOH finally getting to the point of being able to string a sentence together instead of just swapping words into a set phrase.  It's become a lot easier to work out how to pronounce new words I see, or spell ones heard for the first time.


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## Greebo (Nov 9, 2013)

Okay, that's weird.  Thought I wasn't getting very far with this, until I went through a pack of flash cards the other day and could work out how to pronounce most of the words (the Polish for "bee" is a real pile up of car crash consonants).  Not just that, most of the words on those cards are now in my active vocabulary and the few which aren't are in my passive memory.

It's only difficult until it gets easier.


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## Greebo (Nov 26, 2013)

Okay, back to the coursework, last week's missed lesson (rep meeting clash) to catch up with and it's not going to do itself.  This is also the final week before the Christmas break, really need to get my act together with regard to making time to do the practice.


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## october_lost (Nov 26, 2013)

Have an HSK exam this weekend. Not expected to do brilliantly, but wanted something initially to say I know a bit and see if I can push on from there. I think post-exam they might offer bursaries and scholarships which is a big incentive. 

Does anyone do the language meetups through the meetups website? I keep meaning to go, but I have had a couple of odd experiences with them.


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 27, 2013)

What's 'HSK'?

I get my first exam result tonight, then there's another exam in 4 weeks. I really hope I pass because I want to go on the next stage, if they decide to run the course that is. After that...well, I will somehow have to teach myself, not sure how this is going to work yet but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I'd love to be fairly fluent one day. They say it takes 5 years, well I should be ok by the time the Rugby World Cup is on in Japan in 2019(there's a gang of us going, saving accounts set up already)  

Absolutely loving it so far, I can even write half the Hiragana symbols, It's great recognising the characters....I thought it would be impossible, but it's not


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## october_lost (Nov 27, 2013)

Congrats and good luck.

HSK is the Chinese mainlands equiv. of IELTS and TOEFL. Lot of mock materials online, so put in quite a bit of practice over the last couple of weeks, but if there are questions on topics I've never revised for or unfamiliar with, there is not a great deal I can do. Lot more emphasis on listening than I am used to :-(


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## Sue (Dec 2, 2013)

october_lost said:


> Have an HSK exam this weekend. Not expected to do brilliantly, but wanted something initially to say I know a bit and see if I can push on from there. I think post-exam they might offer bursaries and scholarships which is a big incentive.
> 
> Does anyone do the language meetups through the meetups website? I keep meaning to go, but I have had a couple of odd experiences with them.


Yes, I go to a French one from time to time. It's fine, standard's generally high and quite a lot of native speakers.


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## october_lost (Dec 4, 2013)

I found the exam quite difficult. I honed in on my listening for a few weeks and then found the reading/comprehension tasks beyond me. I suspect I may scrape through.

Get the results next month.


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## Greebo (Jan 7, 2014)

Zaczynam znowu dzis wieczorem - proshe mi pomoc!


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## Greebo (Jan 7, 2014)

Passive memory FTW.  This week's class was about half the size it was in September, OTOH more at the same ability level, so far less stopping and starting.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 8, 2014)

Going to have a month off work more or less after the weekend, so going to have a standard holiday language learning push. Even though I've not been trying to learn much over the last few months, I do seem to be speaking more Mandarin generally. It just seems to be coming a bit more naturally now although I'm still really bad...


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## weltweit (Jan 8, 2014)

I want to do a Spanish adult evening class. Having a hard time finding a suitable one near me so far. Did find some courses but they were £170 for six weeks which seems a lot more than I can remember paying when I last did evening classes.

Anyone else doing adult evening classes and how much are you paying?


----------



## Riklet (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm doing a Spanish exam this year so need to pull my finger out a bit with writing more, especially. 

It's the DELE B2 and isn't beyond me, but still requires a fair bit of thinking and practice.

Could anyone recommend a textbook by any chance?


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 8, 2014)

weltweit said:


> I want to do a Spanish adult evening class. Having a hard time finding a suitable one near me so far. Did find some courses but they were £170 for six weeks which seems a lot more than I can remember paying when I last did evening classes.
> 
> Anyone else doing adult evening classes and how much are you paying?



I'm doing a one at the local Uni, £290 for 12 weeks. Works out at £12 an hour, and the credits go towards a degree or whatever. It's a bit more than I'd like to pay, but not many places teach Japanese in North Wales!


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## Greebo (Jan 8, 2014)

weltweit said:


> I want to do a Spanish adult evening class. Having a hard time finding a suitable one near me so far. Did find some courses but they were £170 for six weeks which seems a lot more than I can remember paying when I last did evening classes.
> 
> Anyone else doing adult evening classes and how much are you paying?


£110 per 11 week term, and 3 terms per year.  No income-related reduction (there's one for pensioners), and the textbook for the year is roughly another £20.  That's at Morley, which is pretty expensive for South London (and a long bus ride from here, add on another £4.20 or so just to get there and back).  OTOH nowhere nearer or cheaper seems to teach Polish at all.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 8, 2014)

I've learnt all the basic Hiragana now, but during the recent exam I realised that I am no good at reading it (only very very very slowly). So I think I should read some children's books - but I have no idea where to get children's books written in hiragana in the UK. Any ideas ATOMIC SUPLEX Shippou-Sensei gaijingirl? Thanks!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 8, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> I've learnt all the basic Hiragana now, but during the recent exam I realised that I am no good at reading it (only very very very slowly). So I think I should read some children's books - but I have no idea where to get children's books written in hiragana in the UK. Any ideas ATOMIC SUPLEX Shippou-Sensei gaijingirl Thanks!



I probably have freaking loads. Though I don't know if they are in a position to be given away. I will have to ask. 
You an get them very easily and cheaply though Japanese message boards, however these are all for fluent Japanese readers so it's probably worse than a catch 22. 

There is a shop on Brewer street that deals in second hand Japanese language books and manga, they might have something. 

Alternatively, I found a limited supply of Japanese kids books at our local library, I expect other library's do the same.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 8, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I probably have freaking loads. Though I don't know if they are in a position to be given away. I will have to ask.
> You an get them very easily and cheaply though Japanese message boards, however these are all for fluent Japanese readers so it's probably worse than a catch 22.
> 
> There is a shop on Brewer street that deals in second hand Japanese language books and manga, they might have something.
> ...



Hey, thanks. I'd quite happily buy some if you want to sell any!

I can't get to any shops/libraries that would have Japanese books here in Wales. Do you know of anywhere online?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 8, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> Hey, thanks. I'd quite happily buy some if you want to sell any!
> 
> I can't get to any shops/libraries that would have Japanese books here in Wales. Do you know of anywhere online?


Ebay? 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Japa...=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item417b01185f


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 8, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ebay?
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Japa...=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item417b01185f



I hadn't thought of that! Ooh, I may bid


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 8, 2014)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-5-x-...=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item417b1a05e2
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Japanese-...=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item1c3a285eb2
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Am-I-smal...1160399356?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item20ddd0c1fc


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 8, 2014)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-5-x-...=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item417b1a05e2
These ones are slightly more grown up. They may even include simple kanji (but with small hiragana beside it, so don't worry). 

A lot of the others will be almost like baby books with only a couple of words per page.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 8, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-5-x-...=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item417b1a05e2
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Japanese-...=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item1c3a285eb2
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Am-I-smal...1160399356?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item20ddd0c1fc



I've bid on that first lot...just what I was looking for. Thanks!


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 8, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-5-x-...=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item417b1a05e2
> These ones are slightly more grown up. They may even include simple kanji (but with small hiragana beside it, so don't worry).
> 
> A lot of the others will be almost like baby books with only a couple of words per page.



Yeah, those seem my level, and looks like one of them is Journey to the West!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 8, 2014)

Shame going to Japan is so expensive, they can cost as little as 50 - 100 yens in the book off exchange shops. That's about 40 - 70p


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## Sweet Meiga (Jan 12, 2014)

I need to brush up my German as quickly as possible. I started to read books in German but thought that perhaps someone could recommend a good German radio program that I could listen to online? I'm trying to surround myself with the language as much as possible.  Thanks in advance!


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## Sweet Meiga (Jan 12, 2014)

Riklet said:


> I'm doing a Spanish exam this year so need to pull my finger out a bit with writing more, especially.
> 
> It's the DELE B2 and isn't beyond me, but still requires a fair bit of thinking and practice.
> 
> Could anyone recommend a textbook by any chance?


Have you already found something? I haven't got a clue but quite a few friends of mine work as Spanish teachers, so I could ask them.


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## Greebo (Jan 12, 2014)

Sweet Meiga said:


> I need to brush up my German as quickly as possible. I started to read books in German but thought that perhaps someone could recommend a good German radio program that I could listen to online? I'm trying to surround myself with the language as much as possible.  Thanks in advance!


Deutsche Welle does podcasts http://www.dw.de/deutsch-lernen/podcasts-newsletter/s-11696

BTW you might have already realised this, but it's possible to get audiobooks in German


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## Sweet Meiga (Jan 12, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Deutsche Welle does podcasts http://www.dw.de/deutsch-lernen/podcasts-newsletter/s-11696
> 
> BTW you might have already realised this, but it's possible to get audiobooks in German



Thank you very much! That's exactly what I needed.

As for audiobooks, I wouldn't have time to order them - I've got a bit more than a week left till I have to start speaking German again. So I'm now in the capable hands of Deutsche Welle


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## Greebo (Jan 12, 2014)

Sweet Meiga said:


> <snip> I've got a bit more than a week left till I have to start speaking German again. So I'm now in the capable hands of Deutsche Welle


Oh right.  Best of luck with immersion anyway.  I'm sure you'll find it coming back after a few days


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## Sweet Meiga (Jan 12, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Oh right.  Best of luck with immersion anyway.  I'm sure you'll find it coming back after a few days


Thank you!


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## Greebo (Jan 12, 2014)

Sweet Meiga said:


> Thank you!


Just avoid using much English for the next few days - IME switching over is the trickiest bit.


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## Riklet (Jan 12, 2014)

Sweet Meiga said:


> Have you already found something? I haven't got a clue but quite a few friends of mine work as Spanish teachers, so I could ask them.



Hi, i'd really appreciate it if you could, actually. Thanks 

I bought the "Edelsa DELE B2" textbook but I'm thinking about taking it back, because...

1) I doesn't have the answer key and you have to buy it seperately.  I can't find a pirated copy online as I hoped.
2) It's typically dull, and I hate to say it, typically Spanish ELE, with not much imagination or creativity in it, few decent pictures, no decent grammar exercises and a pretty shit format, which I didn't realise  when I bought it.

I'm thinking about El Cronómetro DELE b2 as there's a new edition.  Maybe your friends would know if it's any good, or if there's a better book they'd recommend instead?


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm thinking of doing HSK. I don't think it would take long for me to do the level 1 really. Would just be a job of learning to read more as I've never put much effort into reading Chinese.

I've also found a couple of good websites

This one has a few Chinese vocab games
http://chineseinflow.com/

And this one (might of been mentioned on here before) is just for general learning but has a big focus on languages.
http://www.memrise.com/


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 13, 2014)

Took French in school; always trying to update it, usually by listening to French language radio in the car, and watching French movies with sous-titres.

Did some Japanese at university; I can't speak it, but I'm able to break Japanese speech into words - before it was just sounds running together. Recent projects are Spanish - classes and at home, and thinking of Arabic - so far I can count to five - but not without cheating a bit.


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## Greebo (Jan 13, 2014)

Need to keep my ear in with German, I could probably do with listening to a bit more French as it's become far too passive for my liking *starts looking for audiobooks*.  Still trying to keep up with Polish, which seems to be hooking itself into what I remember of German more closely than my English.  

That'll do for now.


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## Mungy (Jan 13, 2014)

https://site.saysomethingin.com/communities/spanish-for-english-speakers/pages/home-esen

I have used the saysomething website for learning welsh and it is very good. i assume the spanish will be of the same standard.


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## Greebo (Jan 14, 2014)

Okay, that's the cartoon done for tonight.  We're supposed to show up with a bit of personal news and a picture of some sort to make it clearer.  

Da Vinci's ghost can lie quietly for a while yet.


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## maya (Jan 14, 2014)

One for the French learning crew: http://www.arteradio.com/


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## Greebo (Jan 14, 2014)

Well, that was painless.


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## Sweet Meiga (Jan 16, 2014)

Riklet said:


> I'm doing a Spanish exam this year so need to pull my finger out a bit with writing more, especially.
> 
> It's the DELE B2 and isn't beyond me, but still requires a fair bit of thinking and practice.
> 
> Could anyone recommend a textbook by any chance?


One friend told me Sueña textbooks are very good for non-teacher learners. And they also suggested to take a look to Editorial Pons materials.
I'll tell you more when my other friends get back to me


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## Greebo (Jan 21, 2014)

Note to self: This week thou shallt bloody well do the homework properly instead of winging it, even if you did more or less get away with it.


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## Greebo (Jan 25, 2014)

FWIW since the class has shrunk, the ability spread has narrowed, increasing the probability of being paired up with one of the more fluent/confident people who get far more Polish exposure from co tenants or partners than I do.  Hence roughly an hour spent flicking through a dictionary in the reference library trying to look up and copy the words needed from a far smaller bilingual dictionary than those on the shelves for the major European languages.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 26, 2014)

Printed out an ebook today, so it makes it easier for me to study. Need to transfer the audio onto my phone for it too. Been going through flashcards on Memrise and on my Anki phone app everyday. But generally not been doing as much studying as I wanted on my time off from work. That's the family life though...


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## Greebo (Jan 26, 2014)

Tell me about it - I know how much I should be doing, but what I can fit in falls very far short.  Even in a good week.


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## Greebo (Jan 26, 2014)

I realise that everyone gets it to some extent, but taking several minutes for my passive vocab to work out what I'm supposed to be doing is getting on my nerves.  Stretching may be healthy, that doesn't mean it's always painless.

OTOH if it's this or end up giving £20 to the conservatives and taking the clippers to my hair...  Okay, tea break, then back to work.


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## Greebo (Feb 3, 2014)

Just wondering - am I the only one who's ever so slightly fed up at the way that language courses seem to be so expensive?  

That's before you even add on the extra costs not included in the course fees - the textbook, a dictionary, a grammar book, supplemental reading... and in the case of this one, a premium access website.


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## october_lost (Feb 4, 2014)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> I'm thinking of doing HSK. I don't think it would take long for me to do the level 1 really. Would just be a job of learning to read more as I've never put much effort into reading Chinese.
> 
> I've also found a couple of good websites
> 
> ...



I just finished level 3. Might aim higher, or go for the oral exam and see if I can be offered the Confucius Scholarship...

Anyway, your best bet is to raid the previous mock exams
http://exam.chinese.cn/gonewcontent.do?id=6428777#

And the Nciku and mdbg.net websites are the best resources you can probably get...


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## ReturnOfElfman (Feb 5, 2014)

october_lost said:


> I just finished level 3. Might aim higher, or go for the oral exam and see if I can be offered the Confucius Scholarship...
> 
> Anyway, your best bet is to raid the previous mock exams
> http://exam.chinese.cn/gonewcontent.do?id=6428777#
> ...


Just had a bash at the HSK2 test and got 82% so might as well change to do that one. Still got 6 weeks until the exam too. Then I can do the oral exam in the summer when I have more time.


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## Threshers_Flail (Feb 5, 2014)

Any Spanish learners got any decent advice? I'm coming to the end of a two week intensive course and I'm feeling way more confident, but I'm just a little worried that all my hard work will be forgotten soon enough. I've got a tidy exercise and grammar book, and I've just set up a duolingo account. Apart from listening to Spanish music (and y'know actually speaking to Spanish speakers as often as possible) has anyone got any other tips?


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## Riklet (Feb 6, 2014)

Learn about english and what you're actually trying to say in your own language. IMO a fair bit of english and spanish grammatical structures are pretty similar. Learn what a noun, verb (past/present), adjective etc are and when to recognise them in english.

I'd recommend the Michelle Thomas audiobooks, I did the normal and then advanced ones when I moved to espain and found them really helpful. The vocab ones are ok too if you can stand the annoying american woman. Dont take the 'method' too seriously, write stuff down, dont pause etc.

Read everything you can. Even if it's only signs and short. You'll learn more vocabulary reading than having a very basic conversation, and it will allow you to write down stuff in a notebook, record it on your phone or whatever.

Learn how to conjugate verbs, cos maybe tiring and boring but you can't understand spanish until you know them pretty well. Particularly he/has/ha/hemos/habeis/han + past participle (including irregulars) as you can survive using this for past, present and even future at a pinch!

Go on lyricsrtraining.com and listen to easier songs in Spanish, it's great for practising listening. Try and watch TV/films with spanish subtitles and see what you can understand. Poco a poco. Read labels, instructions, warnings and signs and try and work out the gist of everything.

You're at a big advantage being in a spanish speaking country but it  Won't be automatic progress unless you really want/need it. Try and stay or do things where people are speaking spanish rather than english, at least part of every day.

Better to do 20 mins a day than 3 hours every 4 days. But yeah, you need time!


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## october_lost (Feb 6, 2014)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Just had a bash at the HSK2 test and got 82% so might as well change to do that one. Still got 6 weeks until the exam too. Then I can do the oral exam in the summer when I have more time.


I didn't want to be rude, but I anticipate that very few people will get much out of HSK 1.

Timing in the exam is pretty crucial. I think nobody in my cohort finished early and rushing comprehension exercises is horrible. Otherwise, if you put in the time it will put you in good stead.

Good luck!


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## Boudicca (Feb 6, 2014)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Any Spanish learners got any decent advice? I'm coming to the end of a two week intensive course and I'm feeling way more confident, but I'm just a little worried that all my hard work will be forgotten soon enough. I've got a tidy exercise and grammar book, and I've just set up a duolingo account. Apart from listening to Spanish music (and y'know actually speaking to Spanish speakers as often as possible) has anyone got any other tips?


I found films in Spanish with the Spanish subtitles switched on to be quite helpful.  Nothing too intellectual, so that the vocab is manageable!  Does the TV where you are have a subtitle option?  If so, you could record the local equivalent of Corrie.


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## Greebo (Feb 6, 2014)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Any Spanish learners got any decent advice? <snip>Apart from listening to Spanish music (and y'know actually speaking to Spanish speakers as often as possible) has anyone got any other tips?


Mostly what Riklet said - BTW if you haven't got one already, consider getting an illustrated dictionary (Dorling Kindersley print ones which include the words needed by adults, rather than primary school children).  Words seem to go in and stay in better when linked to images.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Feb 6, 2014)

october_lost said:


> I didn't want to be rude, but I anticipate that very few people will get much out of HSK 1.
> 
> Timing in the exam is pretty crucial. I think nobody in my cohort finished early and rushing comprehension exercises is horrible. Otherwise, if you put in the time it will put you in good stead.
> 
> Good luck!


Yeh, it was more that I've never had a proper lesson and my reading is next to non-existent but you don't really need to read for 1 and 2 because it has pinyin, so was aiming low.


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## Riklet (Feb 6, 2014)

Yeah that's a really good idea. There's some torrent I downloaded last year with a load of picture dictionaries and stuff. In english n spanish. Very useful and maybe worth buying actually.

Have you got a kindle cos there are lots of cheap/free spanish things to do with that.


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## Lord Camomile (Mar 20, 2014)

Just had my final class of an introduction to Japanese.

Oh boy  

Any sentence involving more than three or four words seriously taxes me


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## Greebo (Mar 26, 2014)

Bad news:  This is getting more difficult - not helped by a severe lack of time and energy to get much anything done between classes.  Really struggling to keep up at all.

Good news:  The carcrash consonants are becoming less of a problem and the decoding side of it's easier now.  And at least, even when exhausted, I'm now able to say more or less fluently that I don't understand the question.  

Last night covered the basics of asking for directions and giving them.  That means I'm now able to get well and truly lost in four languages.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 26, 2014)

So gave up on the idea of doing HSK anytime soon. Just can't keep up with studying and even though I would pass the HSK2 without studying, it defeats the purpose of me going for the HSK as it was meant to give me motivation.

However, I've found some good little videos to keep me learning new stuff. Don't require much energy to watch


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## boohoo (Apr 1, 2014)

I'd like to learn Spanish. Have learned a bit before. Any great websites/tips/etc?


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## Mungy (Apr 1, 2014)

boohoo said:


> I'd like to learn Spanish. Have learned a bit before. Any great websites/tips/etc?


https://site.saysomethingin.com/communities/spanish-for-english-speakers/pages/home-esen
I can't say if the spanish one is good or not, but i know the say something in welsh is good.


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## Greebo (Apr 1, 2014)

I've just completed the homework set last week.  It's only taken four hours, aided by "type it" for the extra letters, an easy learning dictionary, and verb tables, to answer a short and chatty email.  Go me.  

OTOH at least I understood the questions in the email, that's a slight improvement.  I'm starting to get the grammar.  And at least I can get my tongue around "That's a good idea, I would like to, but unfortunately I can't because..."  

Getting there, but a very long way to go yet, mostly stuck in the present tense.  Which is fine, as most of my current life is also stuck in the present tense.


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## Greebo (Apr 1, 2014)

Shit!  There was I feeling relatively pleased with myself about having got that out the way and doing a halfway decent job of it, only to find that there's a reply email.  In Polish.  I really haven't got the time (another two hours for the email, plus the lesson time this evening) or energy for this today.  

Okay, breathe.  Reply, even if crappily, and send the bastard.


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## Greebo (Apr 8, 2014)

One week into the Easter break, and there's no guarantee that the next term will actually go ahead.

OTOH if more or less resigned to setting aside those Tuesday evenings, with nearly an hour each way for the bus(es), and an hour and a half for the actual class, there's quite a bit I can get done in that time just by going back over what's already been covered until it stays in.  And if the follow up is in the autumn instead of at the end of this month, that's okay.

BTW that second email last week?  It only turned out to be part of that evening's lesson, so it's just as well that I attempted a reply to it without resorting to translation software or I'd have been sunk.


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## brix_kitty (Apr 8, 2014)

Anyone using Duolingo? I'm using it to "relearn" French.. I did French GCSE almost 20 years ago but hadn't used it at all since, then found Duolingo about 5 months ago so decided to give it a go. I'm about 80% through the skill tree, level 14 - I'm finding it quite good but not sure how useful it'll be when it comes to actually speaking to people. Speaking was always my weakest part of languages and at the moment I don't have anyone to practice on (well actually I do, but I'm not confident enough yet!). Just wondered if anyone else was using it, how useful they found it and whether they needed extra lessons/studying on top?


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## Greebo (May 12, 2014)

It's at this point that I find out the hard way that memorising vocab is easy, but doing the same with verbs and grammatical patterns is another thing altogether.

*slopes off to spend the evening improvising basic sentence structure and case  agreements until they stick for more than a few seconds*


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## Greebo (May 12, 2014)

brix_kitty said:


> Anyone using Duolingo? I'm using it to "relearn" French.. I did French GCSE almost 20 years ago but hadn't used it at all since, then found Duolingo about 5 months ago so decided to give it a go. I'm about 80% through the skill tree, level 14 - I'm finding it quite good but not sure how useful it'll be when it comes to actually speaking to people. Speaking was always my weakest part of languages and at the moment I don't have anyone to practice on (well actually I do, but I'm not confident enough yet!). <snip>


No, sorry.  IMHO at least half the battle with speaking a foreign language is making yourself do it - ready or not.  

After all, you'll be using your French to communicate, right?   People will care far less about whether you can rattle off five grammatically perfect phrases than whether they can understand what you're trying to say in real life.  You can either make a bit of a fool of yourself now, or a lot of a fool of yourself later.


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## sim667 (May 13, 2014)

I need to get back on my french and spanish, Ive got both at GCSE level, and can understand both reasonably (i think) well, as have lots of french freinds, french family, and my folks live in spain.

But I want people to practise it with via email etc, as my french freinds and family are all busy and my folks can't talk a word of spanish.

Anyone know anywhere you can find people, like a language exchange etc?


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## Greebo (May 13, 2014)

sim667 said:


> <snip> But I want people to practise it with via email etc, as my french freinds and family are all busy and my folks can't talk a word of spanish.
> 
> Anyone know anywhere you can find people, like a language exchange etc?


There are language exchanges out there, including real life ones in pubs etc once a month or once a week (eg if you're close enough to London), try googling.  There are also message boards and mailing lists in French (not necessarily aimed at language learners) and the same goes for Spanish (just search yahoogroups etc).  These will give you quite a steep learning curve, but they'll at least get you back in the habit of thinking in the target language instead of translating from English.

BTW if you don't want to switch keyboard settings, www.typeit.org has sets of the accented letters etc for you to copy and paste (even into plain text).


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## gentlegreen (May 13, 2014)

I'm not remotely "shy", but my problem starts with communicating _per se_ - I don't do "small talk" - there has to be a *reason *for communicating.
I've had new neighbours for several weeks - a perfectly nice young couple - they even have bikes - but it's taken this long to exchange names - and I've forgotten hers already. 

There is no way on earth I'm going to make use of the several French language social groups in Bristol - full-on Sunday supplement stuff.

I need to hit the ground running in six years...

I found a very nice house earlier today in Brittany - as it happens it's a bit too touristy (though that gives plenty of scope for seasonal work), and 33 percent of the permanent residents are over 55 - so presumably a lot of retirees with neatly-clipped lawns and hedges.. and though I would be automatically signing up for such things as a matter of course, I'm wondering how many Monday / Friday walks I'd be able to participate in without mentioning politics or religion ... plus I'm to all intents and purposes a vegetarian - shock horror !

http://www.mahalon.fr/randonnee.html

Online I've drawn a total blank so far.


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## Greebo (May 13, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> I'm not remotely "shy", but my problem starts with communicating _per se_ - I don't do "small talk" - there has to be a *reason *for communicating.
> I've had new neighbours for several weeks - a perfectly nice young couple - they even have bikes - but it's taken this long to exchange names - and I've forgotten hers already.
> 
> There is no way on earth I'm going to make use of the several French language social groups in Bristol - full-on Sunday supplement stuff.
> ...


IMHO you can discuss subjects which touch on religion, politics etc from a starting point of agreeing to disagree, making it possible to enjoy a very free and frank exchange of views without falling out or coming to blows.  While party politics might be unacceptable as a subject, what about DIY, the art of getting by ("se débrouillage"), environmental issues, or "l'exode rurale" (the tendancy of young working age people to leave the countryside)?  

I have several good reasons to dislike small talk (main reason, it hurts like hell), but sometimes it has to be learnt before the more interesting stuff can be covered.  eg I've spent the last term and a bit covering "What do you do (as a job)?","how was your weekend?", "what do you usually like to eat for breakfast?".  Trivial stuff, but it hammers home basic grammar and vocabulary:  I do it in the same spirit as resigning myself to hours of finger drills or walkthroughs of steps until they became second nature.


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## sim667 (May 13, 2014)

Greebo said:


> There are language exchanges out there, including real life ones in pubs etc once a month or once a week (eg if you're close enough to London), try googling.  There are also message boards and mailing lists in French (not necessarily aimed at language learners) and the same goes for Spanish (just search yahoogroups etc).  These will give you quite a steep learning curve, but they'll at least get you back in the habit of thinking in the target language instead of translating from English.
> 
> BTW if you don't want to switch keyboard settings, www.typeit.org has sets of the accented letters etc for you to copy and paste (even into plain text).


 
Ah, not near enough london unfortunately..... but ill look for some yahoo groups etc.


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## Greebo (May 13, 2014)

Another week, another 90 minutes of mangling agreed endings.  Here goes nothing...


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## Greebo (Jun 3, 2014)

That was intense - and all in the past tense, to be exact.


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## october_lost (Jun 5, 2014)

sim667 said:


> I need to get back on my french and spanish, Ive got both at GCSE level, and can understand both reasonably (i think) well, as have lots of french freinds, french family, and my folks live in spain.
> 
> But I want people to practise it with via email etc, as my french freinds and family are all busy and my folks can't talk a word of spanish.
> 
> Anyone know anywhere you can find people, like a language exchange etc?


lookup italki.com I am sure there are plenty of equivalents in terms of Skype language exchange forums.


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## weltweit (Jun 5, 2014)

Saw this yesterday, and liked it ..

Speaking a second language may delay dementia
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24836837


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## Greebo (Jun 10, 2014)

This morning I used a large chunk of my data allowance on this 15 minute TED talk.  The key points are:
1) Be open to making mistakes, because every time you learn something completely new it's probably going to feel not quite right.
2) Scrap the alphabet and find a way of writing down the language which works for you to get the intonation and sounds when learning it.
3) Have "shower conversations" - talk to yourself in the shower etc to find which bits of the language you don't know.  eg you might be able to ask for directions but could you understand the answer, let alone give directions?
4) Find a stickler - somebody who is able to notice and correct your mistakes, and with whom you feel comfortable.
5) Find a buddy to practise with - this works best when the language you have most in common is the one you're trying to learn.  In the clip, the speaker gives the example of having a colleague who was also a polyglot.  Their first shared language was English, their second one Spanish, but they spoke to each other in German at work because nobody around them understood a word of it, so they got away with chatting about the weekend in far more privacy.


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## Greebo (Jun 10, 2014)

Polish is not the hardest language for English speakers to learn and needn't be as difficult as people let you expect:
http://www.fluentin3months.com/polish/


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## Fez909 (Jun 16, 2014)

I've started back up Spanish on Duolingo after a long, long holiday. I'm using my time at work between calls to run through the lessons and it feels GREAT to be learning a language and getting paid for it. 

*BUMP* for motivation for the rest of you...


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## weltweit (Jun 16, 2014)

I wanted to do Spanish or German evening classes this year but I was quite shocked at the costs. I could have sworn when I did my German A level in the evenings some time back it was much lower cost.


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## Greebo (Jun 16, 2014)

weltweit said:


> I wanted to do Spanish or German evening classes this year but I was quite shocked at the costs. I could have sworn when I did my German A level in the evenings some time back it was much lower cost.


FWIW the cost of all A level courses will go up this year for adults, to a few thousand pounds from what was a few hundred pounds.  This isn't the fault of the colleges, it's because government funding has been slashed.

I'm not even sure that there'll be a 2nd year to the (non-accredited) course I'm on.


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## weltweit (Jun 16, 2014)

Greebo said:


> FWIW the cost of all A level courses will go up this year for adults, to a few thousand pounds from what was a few hundred pounds.  This isn't the fault of the colleges, it's because government funding has been slashed.


That is outrageous!



Greebo said:


> I'm not even sure that there'll be a 2nd year to the (non-accredited) course I'm on.


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## Greebo (Jun 16, 2014)

weltweit said:


> That is outrageous!


I was told that people will be expected to fund it with a career development loan - this will work well.


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## weltweit (Jun 16, 2014)

Greebo said:


> I was told that people will be expected to fund it with a career development loan - this will work well.


Some years ago my parents bought three language courses for us, I forget the brand, but the usual a case with loads of tapes and some books, French, German and Spanish. I have no idea what became of them but I do wish I had them now.


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## weltweit (Jun 16, 2014)

Greebo said:


> I was told that people will be expected to fund it with a career development loan - this will work well.


No it is outrageous. I want to learn / improve my languages for their own sake, not only for my career.


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## Greebo (Jun 16, 2014)

*shrug*  I'd rather not have to resort to teaching myself again, due to a distinct lack of self-discipline.

OTOH I've still got the Michel Thomas CDs, the textbook and CD from the current course, there's a sequel to work through, a few bits here and there over the net, and a local Polish supermarket sells magazines quite cheaply.  Which will probably mean an accent lag, but it should be just about possible.

Next on the to do list: BSL (from a dvd) and Spanish.


weltweit said:


> No it is outrageous. I want to learn / improve my languages for their own sake, not only for my career.


I hear you - and I have absolutely no chance of using mine in paid work (because I'm not available for work) therefore no chance of getting funding.  Nor do I get a concession, because I'm neither over 60 nor is the class run during the day (it isn't taught in the day at all, except at places I can't afford).

Edited to add:  I'm not happy about the situation but there's fuck all I can do.


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## Greebo (Jun 25, 2014)

2 weeks left.  The drop out rate (for beginners' Polish) is amazing - about 30 down to 6 in three terms.  As this is the first time I've been in a non full time language class, I'm not sure whether this is higher than usual.  The second year is in the brochure but might not go ahead, again because of the lack of enough non beginners.  

So, I'm getting the follow on textbook and seriously considering arranging to meet up with what remains of the group, nearby if the class gets pulled.  After all, if all of us are more or less resigned to setting aside that evening anyway, a bit of motivation could be useful, to at least retain the bits already learnt.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jun 28, 2014)

Downloaded the memrise app on my phone and decided to create my own content for it using a book I got over half way through before but gave up because I got bored. So going review what I've done before with it over the next few days, then start going over the new stuff after. Hopefully memrise will help me remember some of the vocab because when I was entering all the old vocab I'd 'learnt' on to memrise, it seemed like I've never heard of some of it...


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## Greebo (Jul 2, 2014)

Aaaand we're back to the competitive use of extra materials.  I've got the sequel textbook, somebody else has got the companion workbook* to this year's textbook, and we're exchanging notes on ebooks written for children.

This could be seen as a bit unhealthy, but the suspicion that everyone else will be working harder than you (okay, I mean "me") is an incentive to avoid letting things slide between now and September.

Edited to add:  *Now ordered, sheesh.


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## october_lost (Jul 2, 2014)

It really sucks that your class has imploded. Hope they don't pull the course.

I have been thinking its that time of year again and whether a forray into classes is worth the effort. The pros - good tuition, well-worked materials, social interaction, cons - value for money, regimented class time.

I have recently put myself down for the low-level oral exam in October. I'm panicking a bit, because my speaking and listening are awful and totally out of sync with how much reading I can do. I'm trying to work on this, mainly through Skype language exchanges and listening materials.

For the last month I think I have done a good solid something or other everyday, but it's the same pattern, you think you have turned a corner, but it's more difficult than you know. Had a particularly bad experience the other week with a random dismissing my ability. There is a lot to be said with Language learning requiring a nurturing environment and egos and dickheads don't exactly facilitate that.

 I'm hoping if I pass the exam, along with the previous HSK result I might warrant the scholarship, though I might not be able to utilise it, and I may fall foul of the institutes age restrictions :-(


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## MamaBarbara (Jul 4, 2014)

I am learning Chinese since the last year  I must say it's not as difficult as they say as long as you use menmonic technics to learn characters


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 5, 2014)

Got any tips on learning Chinese?


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## october_lost (Jul 9, 2014)

MamaBarbara said:


> I am learning Chinese since the last year  I must say it's not as difficult as they say as long as you use menmonic technics to learn characters


Very true. But the tones are an added complexity. I try and get round this by colour coding anki answer flash cards very similar to the dictionary listings on MDBG.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 9, 2014)

I've been really trying hard to learn more over the last couple of weeks. I feel like a switch has flicked in my head to give me some motivation that will last. Not done less than an hour of studying a day in that time and often it's over 2 hours.

Just started using the HelloTalk language exchange app, which is great to find Chinese speakers to talk to. I'm using it more to improve my writing/reading but can be used for speaking too. My only criticism would be there are too many Chinese wanting to talk to you at once!


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## MamaBarbara (Jul 11, 2014)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Got any tips on learning Chinese?



Sure 

1. I use mnemotechnics to learn characters. I work with the book Remembering the Hanzi by Heisig and there is a free app for Android to practice.
2. I listen to ChinesePod dialogues and podcasts (their audio reviews don't work so well for me)
3. I take lesson over skype with a private teacher, I have found my teacher on italki.
4. I am watching Happy Chinese videos on YouTube
5. I have a favorite movie in Chinese which I have watched many times (Green Tea, 2003) - with English and Chinese subtitles.

Hope this helps! Good luck!


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 12, 2014)

Thanks!

Do quite a bit of that myself. 

Only thing is, I've never really had a 'proper' teacher. I had a couple of English speaking Chinese give me a couple of free lessons but I wasn't motivated to learn back then. I'm reluctant to pay anything for lessons now because I want to save money for my family. I am at the advantage of being able to practice with 99.99% of the people around me though. Just need more confidence to push myself in conversations though.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 12, 2014)

MamaBarbara 

How would you compare the app your using to memrise or anki? (if you've used them)


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 13, 2014)

Just bought my latest language learning tool.... a basketball. I live near some basketball courts that are quite popular and thought it would be a good way to get to speak to people if I played some basketball there. My main sport is rugby (generally playing as one of the more skilled ball handlers ) and I go to the gym regularly, so don't need to try too hard on the basic skills or make much effort with fitness, just need to know the rules a bit better and spend a little bit of time learning to shoot properly. Let's see how it works out anyway


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## MamaBarbara (Jul 15, 2014)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> MamaBarbara
> 
> How would you compare the app your using to memrise or anki? (if you've used them)



Hi ReturnOfElfman! I have used Memrise, and I really like it but just cannot motivate myself to use it. I feel like I first need to finish learning the characters. I really like the icon of Memrise though! So I keep it on my phone's desktop  You guys are really like that you live next to native speakers!


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 15, 2014)

I've given up on Memrise for the moment it's not working well enough on my phone and I don't want to be online all the time when I use it. Using Anki for a while with some shared decks


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## Greebo (Jul 15, 2014)

Okay, that was slightly weird.  During last night's end of Polish meal, it turned out that one of the others who completed the year is starting to learn German, and might or might not be up for practising their spoken German with me over the summer.  They could be in for a shock when it comes to quite how much I've forgotten.


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## october_lost (Jul 15, 2014)

That's the thing. You should never stop practising. 

The same thing is happening with my Spanish. There must be a suggestion for a minimum repertoire to maintain language, and you just have to strike it.


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## Greebo (Jul 15, 2014)

october_lost said:


> That's the thing. You should never stop practising.
> 
> The same thing is happening with my Spanish. There must be a suggestion for a minimum repertoire to maintain language, and you just have to strike it.


The trouble is that language maintenance falls halfway down a long list of things I really should do more often but just don't manage to because of other demands on time and energy.  Spin two plates, child's play.  Three plates, fairly easy.  Four, on a good week I'm just about dashing between plates which are constantly at the point of dropping.


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## Greebo (Jul 15, 2014)

Specifics:  I can just about find enough time to read German and French often enough to retain them at least for colloquial use.  Meanwhile, I can just about find the time and energy for minimal work on the newer language, including doing some of that on the bus to the lessons.  I know that this is very far from ideal.

Immersion and getting enough exposure are just not realistic.  Having said which, it's got to the stage where I can pick out fragments of East European chatter (on the bus and in shops) and work out some of what's being said.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 21, 2014)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Do quite a bit of that myself.
> 
> Only thing is, I've never really had a 'proper' teacher. I had a couple of English speaking Chinese give me a couple of free lessons but I wasn't motivated to learn back then. I'm reluctant to pay anything for lessons now because I want to save money for my family. I am at the advantage of being able to practice with 99.99% of the people around me though. Just need more confidence to push myself in conversations though.



Decided to give italki a go and after looking around a while thought I would try a couple of teachers, as it's very cheap compared to what my local Chinese learning centres are offering (as well as many private tutors I've previously come across). Just literally finished my first lesson and I've never spoken so much Chinese in an hour before. I barely spoke any English at all and now I feel like it's going to be worth getting more lessons in over the summer while I have less work. I'll then see what I can do after that.


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## october_lost (Jul 21, 2014)

I have teacher from there. She sends me PDFs of text book material we covered and writes in all the stuff I struggle with in the session. Its great. But I sometimes question the quality aspect, because I ask certain questions and the explanation as to why x grammar works like that - seems limited.


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## Greebo (Jul 21, 2014)

october_lost said:


> <snip> I ask certain questions and the explanation as to why x grammar works like that - seems limited.


I dunno, basic level grammar sometimes seems to just need taking on trust until you get further along; a bit like basic level science is often far more about rote learning, which interprets what you observe, than it is once you get past the absolute basics.  But thanks for the reminder - I've got a few grammar tables to go through before the next term.


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## Greebo (Sep 16, 2014)

And have I gone through those grammar tables?  Not yet.  

The course (if still running) starts tonight.  Later than the first year, so there's more time to eat and revise beforehand.  Here goes nothing.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 16, 2014)

I passed my Beginners Japanese last December, but couldn't do the next stage last January because of work. I've mainly slacked off since then...but I've got my forms in hand to begin the next state this coming January. Also, I've got all my notes and books out to get back to where I was in December. On a mission again.


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## Chick Webb (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm starting Spanish lessons on Thursday of next week.  I've gone to some lessons a few years ago and was starting to move beyond beginner level, but then I let it slide a bit (apart from listening to Michel Thomas and Paul Noble on the tube) so I'm going to have to start from the start again.  I'm hoping to stick at the lessons this time, and hopefully move onto the more advanced ones without leaving a big gap and having to start again.  I'm really looking forward to it.	When I get a bit better I'm going to try to read magazine regularly to keep up my practice.

English is my first language, but I learned Irish for my whole school career, and French in secondary school.  I don't know what's wrong with the way they teach Irish at home, but despite the years and years of learning it, I know very little now like many (most?) Irish people.  My French is even worse.  If I ever get good enough at Spanish that I can stop formally learning it, then I might try to learn French properly.  I would love to learn Irish too, but it seems more sensible to put effort into learning a language I'll actually use.

Spanish is hard to pronounce with an Irish accent, but then again it's hard for Brits to pronounce too (in a slightly different way) so me and my new class will all be in the same boat.


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## Chick Webb (Sep 16, 2014)

http://www.babbel.com/magazine/10-tips-from-an-expert?slc=engmag-a1-vid-bv1-tipsandtricks-ob


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## Greebo (Sep 16, 2014)

That was painless, and a less uneven spread of ability this year


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## Greebo (Oct 7, 2014)

It's funny, but you don't realize how often you switch tenses, until youv'e only just started being able to use future and past tenses instead of sticking to the presnt tense.


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## october_lost (Oct 10, 2014)

Been slacking a little of late (at least prior to the last three weeks) but with semi-good reasons in the mix. Organised to sit an exam with the idea of working towards the 'big day' goal and it's now tomorrow.

I'm taking HSK 4 which I might luck-out on because of my reading level. My listening is no where up to that level, at least not beyond the superficial, but I wanted to move on from HSK 3. And fuck me it's a big leap up. Like 600 new characters!

Also have an elementary oral exam same day, which I am hoping I should pass without much incident.


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## october_lost (Oct 10, 2014)

Greebo said:


> It's funny, but you don't realize how often you switch tenses, until youv'e only just started being able to use future and past tenses instead of sticking to the presnt tense.


Using tenses always seems really artificial when you're starting to learn a language. It's a really strange feeling.


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## Greebo (Oct 10, 2014)

A year and a bit on, and I'm still hitting words I don't know every time I open my mouth.  OTOH the spelling is getting easier to decode.


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## Greebo (Oct 14, 2014)

Just listened to myself this morning and it's appalling.   Really need to speed up and stop pausing to think between words as I'm using more fillers than a stereotypical French person who's trying to sound as if they're thinking hard about what they're saying.


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## october_lost (Oct 15, 2014)

Do you use Meetup or Skype?


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## Greebo (Oct 15, 2014)

october_lost said:


> Do you use Meetup or Skype?


With mobile broadband?  You must be joking!


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## sim667 (Oct 16, 2014)

I would love to get my french up to scratch as I've got french family I don't really talk to, if there's any french speakers on here


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## Greebo (Oct 16, 2014)

sim667 said:


> I would love to get my french up to scratch as I've got french family I don't really talk to, if there's any french speakers on here


Je devrais t'avertir, mon accent est attroce, et puis il y a la manque de haut débit.  But there are plenty of other urbanites, and there should be, seeing as french is/was the first foreign language taught in most UK secondary school pupils.    It's so easy to find films and music in french so you've got a really good chance of getting your used to hearing it and making sense of it.  

JC3 was AFAIK wanting to refresh his spoken french, might be worth a PM to see if skyping him might be possible.


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## sim667 (Oct 16, 2014)

Maybe a good idea….. my understanding of french isn't too bad when i hear/read it…… but I've always been nervous about speaking it. Im sure my accent will be worse than yours, I partially learnt french at school, from my family who apparently have farmers accents, and my friends family who have squeaky belgium accents….


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## sim667 (Oct 16, 2014)

I can't tag JC3, is he untaggable or sommat?


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## Greebo (Oct 16, 2014)

sim667 said:


> I can't tag JC3, is he untaggable or sommat?


Try PMing Johnny Canuck3   - it mgiht have something to do with the space in the username.


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## sim667 (Oct 16, 2014)

Oh lol, I just tried tagging @JC3 haha

Johnny Canuck3 how you feeling on this french ting?


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## Greebo (Oct 16, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Maybe a good idea….. my understanding of french isn't too bad when i hear/read it…… but I've always been nervous about speaking it. Im sure my accent will be worse than yours, I partially learnt french at school, from my family who apparently have farmers accents, and my friends family who have squeaky belgium accents….


Mine's probably worse, just about okay pronounciation, but very English intonation, and I've hardly spoken it at all since the early 1990s.    There's also the problem that in this part of London, any French I hear on the bus etc is with a heavy African accent and verging on patois.  Fine if you mostly travel outside Europe, but it's not what I need.

FWIW your nervousness in speaking French is what I get when trying to speak Polish (and the first several hours of trying to speak German, when I must).

Oh god, the last time I bought magazines and a few bits from the Polish supermarket, the cashier took one look at what I'd bough and told me the total in Polish.  Seeing as I wasn't really expecting that, did I say "I'm sorry, I didn't understand much of that, please repeat"?  No.  Knew the words, I'm even okayish saying things like that, if relaxed, but couldn't retrieve the words in time.


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## sim667 (Oct 16, 2014)

My spoken spanish is a lot better than my french.... But i think its because the french speakers I know are much more likely to take the piss.

My spanish is picked up from spending 3 months in spain every year for about 15 years. I actually really like talking spanish too.

What I really need is to be somewhere that I literally am surrounded by a language for a year or too. I think Riklet has learnt spanish that way, unless he spoke it before he moved out?


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## Greebo (Oct 22, 2014)

Really shouldn't be so surprised to find that some Polish maps directly onto German.


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## Greebo (Nov 18, 2014)

Just for once, finished the work set before needing to get the bus there - any bets that it'll turn out to have been the wrong bit?


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## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 11, 2014)

After a bit of a lapse in learning, I'm motivated to get going again. For the the next few weeks (and then I'll change it up a little) I'm going to go through a podcast everyday, listen to it twice, write down the phrases and the key vocab then review the previous 6 I've written down already. Also, going through 1 level a day on an app I've downloaded as well as carrying on using the Unlock Your Phone app to go over vocab everytime I unlock my phone. I've also got 2 small whiteboards on my door that I'm going to write 2 Chinese idioms or phrases that I can learn (a lot of which will be motivational type phrases). On top of that I'm going to go through various YouTube channels I've got bookmarked and try consume the content as often as I can.

Most important of all, I need to speak more to people and stop being such an unfriendly twat!


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## Greebo (Dec 14, 2014)

awesomeChloe said:


> can you advise any book for learning Spanish? I am begginer


Castillian (Spanish) Spanish or Latin American Spanish?  BTW at the risk of being rude, I don't think that English is your first language.  If I'm right, this will make things more difficult for you; learning a third language in a second language is going to distort it more than if you were learning it in your mother tongue.

It really depends on why you want to learn it and how soon you need enough language to manage when shopping or asking directions.  I ought to warn you that a book could be superb and still get you nowhere unless you use it on a regular basis.

I'd recommend these:
Any audio course at all to help you get used to how the language sounds.
An illustrated dictionary (Dorling Kindersley have a range of illustrated dictionaries which include adult vocabulary) because pictures tend to stick in the memory more easily than long lists of words.
One Asterix or Tin Tin book in Spanish, to get your eyes and mind used to decoding the language in context.
One phrasebook (IMHO Lonely Planet are pretty good) to learn bits for basic survival.
One Spanish dictionary small enough to carry around easily.
Youtube has plenty of clips for language learners of all levels - if you can afford the data allowance.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 1, 2015)

Been really motivated recently. I'm tweaking my routine here and there to make things more effective but have probably been averaging 3 hours a day for the last few weeks. I should be able to carry on with this for a few more weeks at least (before work gets busier) and I feel things are really progressing. At the moment, I'm really focusing on reading and writing more than I used to as I never really did this much before. Thinking about doing the HSK4 sometime this year. Will do some HSK3 practice exams once my reading/writing improves, then I can have more of an idea how long it will take for me to get there.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 4, 2015)

Going to start watching UFC on a Chinese streaming service, so it has Mandarin commentary rather than English. Already watch mostly Chinese films and the only other thing I like to watch is rugby, but doesn't seem to be much of it in China unless it goes via Hong Kong (and therefore has English commentary). Looking at download a couple of Chinese TV series too but so much of it is awful  Thinking I'll start with Journey to the West and Ip Man as I'm already familiar with film versions of them.


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## Greebo (Jan 12, 2015)

New year, new term?  Not exactly.  The money which would have gone on the course fees, the fares to get here and back, and snacks bought while hanging around will be set aside towards Berlin.

The time not spent getting there and back frees up roughly 3 hours a week, and there's a lot I could do in that time if less tired, distracted, and stressed.  There are enough links to youtube, enough bits of grammar, the workbooks came with a CD, and there's still Michel Thomas to get the spoken bits up to speed.

Come this autumn, if I can't  just about get by without a phrasebook, £20 will go to the Conservatives and I'll take the clippers to my hair.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 13, 2015)

I've been considering some formal language course but when I really think about it, I don't think it's worth the money. So much free content out there these days, if you know where to look, for any motivated student to use. If you really need a tutor then italki is definitely worth a try. German will be more expensive but the Chinese tutors are very cheap compared to tutors IRL.


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## Greebo (Jan 13, 2015)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> I've been considering some formal language course but when I really think about it, I don't think it's worth the money. So much free content out there these days, if you know where to look, for any motivated student to use. If you really need a tutor then italki is definitely worth a try. German will be more expensive but the Chinese tutors are very cheap compared to tutors IRL.


Thanks for the tips.  I have neither full broadband here, nor skype, nor a smartphone.  Free content isn't free if it pushes my data allowance to breaking  point, although I use youtube etc when I can, and have downloaded a few ebooks in my target languages.

FWIW I do think that group classes are worth it, when there's a good match.  IME it was good for some things (ie the competitiveness, conversation practice, the motivation, tips and tricks, and realising that others sometimes find it difficult too), but the ability spread was a bit wide for comfort.  Other issues too, but the weird timing and bus journey were the final straws.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 13, 2015)

I'm doing the second stage of the Japanese course at the local Uni in two weks...a year late! I couldn't do it because of work/cashflow last January.

I have two weeks to catch up on what I learnt in the first course! Eek!!!


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 13, 2015)

Greebo said:


> Thanks for the tips.  I have neither full broadband here, nor skype, nor a smartphone.  Free content isn't free if it pushes my data allowance to breaking  point, although I use youtube etc when I can, and have downloaded a few ebooks in my target languages.
> 
> FWIW I do think that group classes are worth it, when there's a good match.  IME it was good for some things (ie the competitiveness, conversation practice, the motivation, tips and tricks, and realising that others sometimes find it difficult too), but the ability spread was a bit wide for comfort.  Other issues too, but the weird timing and bus journey were the final straws.


If you have a problem with bandwidth, you could possible get a friend to let use their internet to download some torrents for offline use. I've found some brilliant resources using torrents. I think most of what I'm using now are from torrents actually


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## Greebo (Jan 13, 2015)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> If you have a problem with bandwidth, you could possible get a friend to let use their internet to download some torrents for offline use. <snip>


Sorry, my world doesn't work like that.


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## Chick Webb (Jan 14, 2015)

Sorry if it's been mentioned on the thread already, but has anyone has any success with language groups on Meetup?   There are loads (some informal and free, some lessons that you pay for, some incorporating various fun and games such as sport or dancing).   I joined a big load of them the other day but haven't attended any yet.  I am a bit tired at the moment for going to things in the evening, but might try to get to a few of these when I'm on maternity leave.  Some of them appear to be pseudo-dating groups though.  A lot of them state an 18-40 age group, and that's not cool if you're really there to try to practice your language skills.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 20, 2015)

Just saw this on fb. Thought it was worth a share on here


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## Greebo (Jan 25, 2015)

Ordered a couple of audiobooks, which will arrive in their own sweet time.  A collection of short stories and "chasing the King of hearts".


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 25, 2015)

Once I've got through this book to help improve my character recognition, stories are something I want to get more into too. Seen some pretty decent looking books that should suit my level without being aimed at children.


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## iona (Jan 29, 2015)

Hi thread 

I've been meaning to start learning a language again for ages now and spending 5 days in Lisbon last week seems to've finally given me the kick I needed to actually get on with it. Everyone I was with managed to get by ok in English but I was pleased to find that I still seem to be able to pick up new words and their accent fairly easily, so I'm hoping with a bit of effort I'll be able to teach myself enough Portuguese to just about get by with basic everyday stuff. I've had a look at duolingo and ordered a book that comes with CDs, a grammar book and one with loads of basic exercises for practice. I'm hoping posting this now will mean I keep on with it rather than creep off the thread in shame after giving up a few weeks in..


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## ReturnOfElfman (Feb 2, 2015)

Found this game to help review Chinese vocab 
http://mandarinmojo.com/game/


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## sim667 (Feb 2, 2015)

Ive been absolutely bollocks at practising french and spanish. The idea was to try and find an email pal...... but I forgot


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## Greebo (Feb 2, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Ive been absolutely bollocks at practising french and spanish. The idea was to try and find an email pal...... but I forgot


gentlegreen might be up for some French practice via email - if you don't need a native speaker, that is.


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## Greebo (Feb 3, 2015)

Well, the 4 CDs of Polish songs turned out to have one disc which has most of the tracks in English, the music's not exactly to my taste, and some of the lyrics are a bit politically incorrect.  OTOH I'm starting to at least notice individual words.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Feb 3, 2015)

It's hard to find music in your target language that you like from my experience. Probably a lot to do with the different culture from what you're used to.


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## J Ed (Mar 6, 2015)

This may be of interest to some who are already at a good level of Spanish - http://radioambulante.org/ is great, lots of interesting stories and journalism in podcast format and it gives you the opportunity to hear a wide variety of Latin American accents.


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## Greebo (Apr 7, 2015)

I can't believe Kerstin Gier wedged that in.  Chick lit including an old lady whose cat answers to Muschi (pussy in both senses of the word).


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## Fez909 (May 26, 2015)

Free Chinese course just starting on Coursera. Run by the university of Peking.

https://www.coursera.org/learn/learn-chinese/

Aimed at beginners.


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## ReturnOfElfman (May 27, 2015)

Not posted on here for ages. My language learning has gone up and down over the last 3 months. I'm getting more chance to practice now due to my work demanding me to speak more Chinese (both in person and typing on my phone) but not getting down to the studying I need to do. I've been really inconsistent and just unmotivated. I've cancelled my lessons with my online teacher just because I feel like I'm not putting in enough effort for it to be worthwhile. Every week I'm doing vocab reviewing on Memrise app, listening to 5-10 podcasts a week and getting through some graded reader books (I've completed all six 300 character books and on my first 500 character book). I've also been doing more language exchange type stuff but it's all just using my phone really.

The thing is, a year ago I'd be thinking I'm doing lots of learning as before I'd struggle to 30 mins learning a week. Now, I feel like I should be doing an hour a day minimum, but never doing that.


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## gentlegreen (May 31, 2015)

I signed up a while ago to "francaisfacile" to add to all the others which I don't make much actual use of ...



> *Cardinal *
> 
> *Début :*Éminence
> 
> ...





I did a quick and dirty test the other day - only gap-filling - and scored a pathetic "A2" on the CECR (cadre européen de référence pour les langues) where B2 is the threshold for citizenship and is still regarded as minimal - though I would be at least 65 before eligible to apply and hence exempt, but it's a wakeup call. I want to integrate in France perhaps even in a way I never have in the UK.

I appear to have finally made the change to only listening to French radio ... I'm finally getting the hang of the French Paltalk rooms which are many and various, come and go on the whim of the owners and get quiet around mealtimes - I'm starting to spot some of the regulars... but it will be a while before I start contributing on the mic ...


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## DownwardDog (Jun 1, 2015)

gentlegreen said:


> I did a quick and dirty test the other day - only gap-filling - and scored a pathetic "A2" on the CECR (cadre européen de référence pour les langues) where B2 is the threshold for citizenship and is still regarded as minimal - though I would be at least 65 before eligible to apply and hence exempt, but it's a wakeup call. I want to integrate in France perhaps even in a way I never have in the UK.




I did the DELF B2 exam to get Belgian citizenship and found it fucking difficult. The écrit production is the hardest part IMO so practice that. I had an hour to write a book review without recourse to a dictionary! The "Réussir le DELF B2" book is pretty good for ep practice.

You can also watch loads of wank French TV with the 6Play app which helps with immersion.


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## gentlegreen (Jun 1, 2015)

Book review ?   I'm doomed - I've probably only read 50 books in my whole life and half of those were Enid Blyton and Agatha Christie and none in the past 20 years.
I got "ungraded" for my English lit O Level .

French TV even at its best is rather poor. When it was free to air on satellite we got all the channels at work. I need to get back into the habit of watching the one or two programmes I actually used to watch like "Thalassa" - but I've more or less stopped watching TV.

The radio is *very *good though - even "Radio Bleu Breizh Izel" has the edge on Radio Bristol.
If I'm not fascinated by the topic, I can go away and look up new things I hear (usually a confirmation), and build on it - thinking up more examples ... I use a contextual tool both ways - though I have to be careful as it's heavily biased towards Canadian French...

http://www.linguee.fr/search?tool=opensearch&query=%C7a+vaut

But I desperately need to do everyday conversation, and I'm struggling to get started with the people I'm meeting on "ami ou plus "  - but then I struggle with small talk in any case and it's another skill I need to acquire over the next 5 years ...


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## DownwardDog (Jun 1, 2015)

gentlegreen said:


> Book review ?   I'm doomed - I've probably only read 50 books in my whole life and half of those were Enid Blyton and Agatha Christie and none in the past 20 years.
> I got "ungraded" for my English lit O Level .



Your production écrit for B2 won't definitely be a book review, the topics are selected at random. When I did mine the topics were drawn, with great ceremony, from a velvet bag that looked like it dated from the Ancien Régime. My production orale was making a series of hotel bookings for a football team who had a goat for a mascot. All of the hotels had different numbers of rooms with different numbers of beds at different rates and variable levels of caprine tolerance. It tested one's powers of mental arithmetic more than I thought was strictly fair.


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## gentlegreen (Jun 1, 2015)

The French certainly take language seriously ...


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## gentlegreen (Jun 1, 2015)

Spoke earlier to a TEFL colleague of mine.
B2 is the level expected of foreign undergrads at the end of their pre-sessional course.

UK, Germany and Spain only ask for B1 for citizenship


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jun 2, 2015)

I've started using Glossika. Seems like a pretty good way to improve speaking and listening from the various reviews I've seen. I'm using the GRS method. There are loads of different languages to choose from too and it's pretty cheap in comparison to other language learning products out there. It's more of a supplement to other materials, but with the GRS method, it's only like 15 mins a day anyway.
http://www.glossika.com/
http://www.mezzoguild.com/glossika-review/


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## october_lost (Jun 2, 2015)

Have people checked out fluentu?

www.*fluentu*.com/


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## gentlegreen (Jul 5, 2015)

Darn ...

I have three people who want to do French - English language exchange who saw me on francaisfacile.com - one young person from Ivory coast, one from Romania and one from Brittany both nearer my age .. I can't cope with three - clearly the Breton is the more likely to have things to discuss ... how to let the others down gently ...


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## gentlegreen (Jul 6, 2015)

I still hold out no hope that I will be able to manage smalltalk in French any more than in English ...


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## Greebo (Jul 6, 2015)

gentlegreen said:


> <snip> one from Brittany both nearer my age .. I can't cope with three - clearly the Breton is the more likely to have things to discuss ... how to let the others down gently ...


"Fiches-moi la paix, connard(e), t'es tres sympa mais je desire converser avec un adult, pas un mome."?  


gentlegreen said:


> I still hold out no hope that I will be able to manage smalltalk in French any more than in English ...


Okay then, forget small talk.  Ask the one from Brittany about the place, about local politics in their area, about that recent strike which affected transmanche traffic for a couple of days, about the Tour De France, or whatever interests you, or them.


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## gentlegreen (Jul 6, 2015)

The Breton woman actually seems to want an English teacher ...

The cocky Romanian guy seems more of a safe bet quite frankly (corrected my grammar !) - not sure what's in it for him as he speaks English and French ...
I've had a lot of experience with contacts from young Cote d' Ivoirians - though they're usually female ...

I don't think I actually put my name down on the site for language exchange, I simply did the assessment test yesterday and immediately got contacted ..


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## gentlegreen (Jul 6, 2015)

The Romanian guy wants to Skype tonight. 
He says all English people are eccentric and lack a sense of humour. 
Thankfully he has a facebook page so I can check his politics ... - people can easily be blocked...

I just gave a text-based TEFL lesson to the French woman - though both grammar issues are things that confuse me in French ...
(I failed my English O Level and only got a B the second time  )


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## gentlegreen (Jul 6, 2015)

Oh dear.
I'm going to just have to block the Romanian guy.
He won't take no for an answer. 
He's all over the Internet. He's the sort of overly assertive man I long ago learned to avoid... 

The French woman seems nice, but it's all in text at the moment.


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## Greebo (Jul 6, 2015)

gentlegreen said:


> <snip>The cocky Romanian guy seems more of a safe bet quite frankly (corrected my grammar !) - not sure what's in it for him as he speaks English and French <snip>


Practice - you need to keep it current or you tend to lose it again.


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## gentlegreen (Jul 6, 2015)

I think he's trying to practice his English and get more translation work outside Romania - as would I if I lived over 300 miles from the sea.

Darn, there's no blocking in francaisfacile ....
Hopefully he'll go away if I don't connect via skype.
He sort of said that his offer is open until midnight...

Always the same problem - I've always been able to get lots of language exchange locally, but I have nothing to discuss with 18 year old students either ..


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## gentlegreen (Jul 6, 2015)

Found it...  



> OK xyz se trouve maintenant dans votre liste noire.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 7, 2015)

Starting up a study group for foreigners who live in the area. Finding it hard at the moment with people at different levels, everyone having slightly different ideas, different schedules etc. Hopefully it works out though as it gives me another social circle as well as more motivation to learn Chinese


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## gentlegreen (Jul 8, 2015)

> "*Good evening Sir,
> I am helping my girlfriend to find a job in Fashion in London.
> Do you have any contacts or advice?
> Thank you very much for your help.*"



I must be the least likely person to have any advice in that area.


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## gentlegreen (Jul 20, 2015)

Just acquired a second 50-something French speaker - though I don't know how much small talk and TEFL I will be able to sustain .. the first one is petering out a bit ...

Meanwhile I've caved in and signed up for a walk around Bristol harbour and a café stop with the Bristol French language Meetup group next Saturday - at least one of them is a native speaker ...

In the past the events were always held up in the posh part of town...

I might at least eventually meet someone or other to Skype with ...


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## gentlegreen (Jul 20, 2015)

My new French friend sent me a link to a gardening programme and as per usual with http://pluzz.francetv.fr

"Pour des raisons de droits concédés à France Télévisions, cette vidéo n'est pas disponible depuis votre position géographique."

So I did a bit of googling and I'm trying a VPN facility "Hotspot Shield" - £3 for a month's subscription and cheaper if you buy multiple months ... ... so I appear to be located in France - it seems OK so far ...


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## Nikkormat (Jul 22, 2015)

Two and  half weeks in to a four week intensive Czech course. I've lived here for two and a half years, and had lessons irregularly over the past nine months, but even the basics are still doing my head in.


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## gentlegreen (Jul 25, 2015)

Well the French walk around Bristol harbour was pleasant enough, and I fell in with the older part of the group, but as per usual we were running out of topics of common interest ..
There were a couple of native speakers but they were instantly ensnared ..
It confirmed the gaps in my conversational ability ..

My online thing seems to have dried up too - as I said to people today, I need to speak and absorb whole phrases into my subconsious .. filling the holes in my grammar can come later ... 

I wonder if my old French exchange partner wants to practice his English in exchange for French ...- I found this photo from 1975 .. it was a friendship that never took off back then for various reasons - his life has taken an interesting turn since then.

I may go and comment on his Facebook page.


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## gentlegreen (Jul 26, 2015)

I was contacted by a more promising language exchange person today - male, 54, secondary maths teacher hoping to work in English schools - also mostly into spoken language - unlike the previous contacts, so I made sure my Skype is up to scratch - though françaisfacile has some sort of facility of its own - not sure how that works yet ...


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## gentlegreen (Jul 27, 2015)

Blinking heck ...

The school teacher seems to have done a runner ...

Then a very nice woman from Bordeaux messaged me. I told her I wanted to talk on the mic rather than correct each other's written language ...
She pleaded with me to be a penfriend because her American friend only wanted to speak ..
Very ironically her passion is *literature  *!
I had to explain to her that I left school at 16 having failed English language and having written nothing at all on my English lit paper - such was my total lack of interest in the subject ...

Mind you, the English book she mentioned was "A Year in Provence" - which I have always assumed is not exactly a serious work ...

--------

I now have a *Belgian  *actually wanting to chat


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## gentlegreen (Jul 29, 2015)

Bernard, the Belgian ex-copper seems like a nice chap, but it's rather unbalanced .. all in text so far with him correcting my written French - even after I've cheated a bit to get the vocab - I would get away with a lot of my mistakes  if we were speaking it  .. it's so painful inputting accents I mess up the subjunctive .. and that odd thing they do with the conditional that makes "apparently" unnecessary ... I hear it every day on the news ...

So bloody pissed off with myself for not simply switching French radio decades ago - as is my wont I would have eventually developed some fluency just speaking to myself - in my head or  sometimes out loud - but that's the story of my life ...
I wish my original correspondent would simply allow me to help her with her spoken English - even if I ended up doing the most talking (in French) ...

The maths teacher has at least added me to his contacts ...

French is a brilliant language .. speaking it properly is like reciting poetry or making a speech - I love to listen to it, but fear I've left it far too long.  It was possibly my best and   favourite subject at school ...


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## gentlegreen (Jul 31, 2015)

Now I have Skype open, every day I get a new person from the Cote D'Ivoire - for some reason they eventually admit it  - sometimes using very unlikely fictional locations in France.
Today's used a photo which I was able to trace to a Google+ account ...
I don't even know how you find a random person in Skype - it no longer offers that facility...


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## gentlegreen (Aug 2, 2015)

Well that was interesting.

A new French speaker - raised south of the Loire ... somewhat ironically  now living near Nantes in Brittany because her mother was from there, but has suddenly taken to West Wales and is desperate to learn English so she can move there.
Inspired by Haverfordwest 

Feels a connection to things Druidic ....

Very matter of fact - straight on the mic.
She said my French was good 
Next time it will be in English and we'll alternate like that.


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## gentlegreen (Aug 2, 2015)

I feel rather sad for an Iranian who contacted me - Persian is sadly way down my list and it must be really difficult to find exchange speakers ...

And today's "comedy" Côte D'Ivoirienne ....
She insisted on using her webcam - by which means she displayed a stolen photo of someone clearly not her ...


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## gentlegreen (Aug 6, 2015)

Well that didn't last long.
Both my recent correspondents became problematic - I was starting to have to bite my lip ...


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## Greebo (Aug 6, 2015)

gentlegreen said:


> Well that didn't last long.
> Both my recent correspondents became problematic - I was starting to have to bite my lip ...


Plenty more francophones out there, better luck next time.  Problematic?  You missed a chance to practice your insults, swear words, and variations on "leave me the hell alone".


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## Riklet (Aug 17, 2015)

I am starting to learn Portuguese.  Any tips? I´ve been to Portugal a few times n brushed up on the basics haha. It mainly seems like Spanish with bells on, so far. Future subjective, weird hyphens with objects, more accents and weird diphthongs than spanish. My french has proved useful though, especially with the pronunciation, I think.  Obviously, speaking good Spanish (C1ish) has been the most helpful thing!

I´m going to both Germany and France soon though, so maybe time to prioritise the German, especially!! Back to Michel Thomas and his crazy accent, maybe.... I´ve found him really good.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 17, 2015)

Not been on here for a while, so here's a little update...

The study group kind of went down hill a little bit. First couple of meet ups had about 10 of us, then I missed one because of work (apparently only 4 turned up), then it was hard to get anyone together. Now there are 3 of us (plus 1 Chinese person to help us) meeting weekly, which isn't what I really wanted but think it's working for me this way (fitting in with other commitments). It's quite good just to relax in a cafe bar with a beer and have an informal lesson with people in the same situation as me. We also have a WeChat group, where we share stuff through the week (although this has 13 people, with only the 4 of us talking on it...). After the summer, I don't think I'll be able to fit it in unless we move it to a Sunday afternoon. See what happens.

I'm coming to the end go the first part of the Glossika fluency course. (done over 800 out of 1000 sentences). It's pretty boring now and I can't wait to finish it. Not sure when I'll start the next part tbh. But I do feel it is quite helpful and will come back to it eventually.

I've started a new book (not that I've used many properly before). It's Short Term Spoken Chinese. I started doing it on my own using a pdf and audio from a torrent but ended u buying the physical version so I'm not looking at my computer too much and it's easier to flick through pages when looking back at vocab too. I did have a problem doing exercises on my own as I had no answers to refer to and sometimes got stuck. So Ive started using my online tutor again to make sure I go through them properly. Its a massive help and something I really need.

This week, I also started learning my first Chinese song. I got the lyrics, used google translate for rough translation and pinyin. Used the pinyin to sing a little, then went through the whole song to see what I didn't understand. Anything I didn't understand, I made sure I understood it and made my own sentences using it. After that, just went back to singing, sometimes with pinyin, sometimes with characters for help. Did a little review of what I didn't understand before and now I can sing it pretty well, with only using characters to help me. Pretty good feeling doing something like this for the first time. 

Also, making sure I watch bits of Chinese TV with only Chinese subtitles. Anything too long and I get bored, so Ive been watching some web based cartoon about sex and zombies that is about 10 mins per episode and the Chinese dub of Pokemon (helps that I liked this as a kid so understand the background to keep me interested)

Found a pretty good App (Decipher) that has short Chinese news stories, sorted by HSK levels and shows the meaning and pinyin of characters when you touch them. Really good little tool to use when you have a spare 5 mins!

From September, my son will be going to kindergarten on mornings, so it gives me a chance to plan my time a bit better and study without the distractions as I don't usually work weekday mornings. My study plan is something like this...
Monday morning - online lesson reviewing textbook
Tuesday morning - self study textbook - dialogue, vocab and grammar
Wednesday  morning - online lesson reviewing textbook
Thursday afternoon (long work break in other part of town) -self study textbook - writing
Friday morning - self study textbook - dialogue, vocab and grammar
Sunday afternoon (long work break in other part of town) -self study textbook - writing

Then Mon, Weds, Thurs, Sat, Sun I'll be travelling to other parts of the city on the bus, so I can listen to ChinesePod and review flashcards. Tues and Fri need to make sure I find time to review flashcards at home in the morning.


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## Combustible (Aug 17, 2015)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Also, making sure I watch bits of Chinese TV with only Chinese subtitles. Anything too long and I get bored, so Ive been watching some web based cartoon about sex and zombies that is about 10 mins per episode



Do you have a link for this or any other cartoons you recommend? I am trying to make more than a half-arsed attempt at learning now but my vocabularly is pretty poor and my listening is even worse. It's a bit frustrating because I am often in a Chinese speaking environment at work but don't know enough to make any use of it.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 17, 2015)

Combustible said:


> Do you have a link for this or any other cartoons you recommend? I am trying to make more than a half-arsed attempt at learning now but my vocabularly is pretty poor and my listening is even worse. It's a bit frustrating because I am often in a Chinese speaking environment at work but don't know enough to make any use of it.


I actually don't understand a lot in these cartoons vocab wise. I choose to watch cartoons partly because you can generally understand more because they are so visual. 

This is the one I mentioned (might not be available outside of China) 
http://www.youku.com/show_page/id_z1d75270284a311e3a705.html

Also, some of the Japanese dubbed stuff is good as it's short and fairly simple these.
http://www.soku.com/search_video/q_哆啦a梦?f=1&kb=04114010kv41000__duolaameng&_rp=1439813495184euq3Gr
http://www.soku.com/search_video/q_蜡笔小新?f=1&kb=04114010kv41000__labixiaoxin&_rp=1439813495184euq3Gr


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## Combustible (Aug 17, 2015)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> I actually don't understand a lot in these cartoons vocab wise. I choose to watch cartoons partly because you can generally understand more because they are so visual.



That's great thanks, I'm in China at the moment so shouldn't be a problem.


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## Aquamarine (Aug 27, 2015)

Please would someone francophone help me with this : there is a French slang word prounounced "barra-kay" which translates roughly
as stockily built in the sense of physical strength rather than overweight. How is this word spelt?


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## gentlegreen (Aug 27, 2015)

*3. Baraque*
The word_baraque_literally means shanty, or small house made of planks. However, recently the term has been adapted to refer to a house, or, as an adjective, _baraqué_,  someone who is really muscular.  For example: _On habite dans une grosse baraque avec 10 colocs._ We live in a large house with 10 other people. _En règle générale, les joueurs de rugby sont plus baraqués que les joueurs de foot._ Generally speaking, rugby players are more muscular than football players.

http://www.fluentu.com/french/blog/french-slang-argot/

So "built like a brick shithouse" 

I may use that one one day


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## gentlegreen (Aug 27, 2015)

I have a new French speaker via francaisfacile - very precise she is - Friday evenings - one hour.
She studied materials science and is now a patent lawyer - currently "*writing a patent application to protect a brassiere." *- I had to check twice to confirm she wasn't referring to an eating establishment - but both are appropriately French


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## Aquamarine (Aug 27, 2015)

Merci Gentlegreen. c'etait genereux de ta part de m'aider avec mon apprentisage linguistique!


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## J Ed (Sep 4, 2015)

I'm currently trying to learn French, my Spanish is pretty good and in some ways French is proving both easier and more difficult than I expected as a result. It is annoying because while I can read it OK I find it very difficult to construct a sentence, let alone a correct one. I haven't actually been through the process of learning a language for ages and I'm finding it quite fun so far.

Anyway, one thing that language learners might appreciate is a brower application that I've come across called hola. It uses a VPN which makes websites think that you are browsing from another country, if you use it with Netflix and set it to USA, Brazil or Mexico then it gives you access to a lot of foreign language films and TV programmes that you don't have access to otherwise. Some of the more popular Netflix originals are dubbed and subtitled in other languages as well. House of Cards is subtitled and dubbed in Spanish, for example.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 4, 2015)

A lot of people suggest using a paid VPN instead of free ones if you'r concerned about privacy and whatnot. But I suppose hola is good for the purpose you mention. Netflix is available in Japan now apparently, so I've been meaning to check it out.


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## gentlegreen (Sep 4, 2015)

Ever since I used a VPN on my PC last month, Google is defaulting to US websites - even for Aldi. 
Which is odd considering that except for when I had the settings wrong, I should have appeared to be in France...


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 4, 2015)

Can I ask for some opinions and help please?

I've completed 2 beginners Japanese courses at a local uni (they only do these 2 courses), which I absolutely loved. So much so that the only thing I really want to do with my life is go to university to study Japanese full-time. Unfortunately for me, the local uni doesn't have a full-time course, and the nearest university offering such a course is several hundred miles away. I have two children, so moving or commuting is not an option, and I don't know of any distance-learning options.

So I'm trying to formulate a self-study plan. Any advice with this??? The only problem is that I have a job and two children....there never seems to be any time. How do you organise your life so that you can study often? I'm struggling with this, as I'm often just too mentally tired to pick up a book when I get home.

One more thing, my current plan involves working through the text book we followed in the course, and using various other techniques too. We skipped around the textbook, so I want to follow it in the right order, and do all the exercises in my own time. I'm still listening and watching a lot of Japanese tv etc, and I plan to go to my local library tomorrow to get some work done. Umm, rambling post was longer than I planned.


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## gentlegreen (Sep 4, 2015)

Meanwhile, the people who I've paired with recently are nowhere to be seen.
A couple of them connected with me on skype, but then must have found other people to chat to.
I've added a few things to my profile on françaisfacile now with a view to getting people who are actually interested in similar things ...

*"Athée, végétarien, environnementaliste, libre d'esprit. "*

I suspect it may be the second item that will arouse the most curiosity in the French 

I already have one "taker" - though he's only 30 yrs old.... we'll see how that goes....


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## Greebo (Sep 4, 2015)

poptyping how to swear like a German (10 minutes) - use your common sense if listening to this around anyone who doesn't like bad language.  


Spoiler


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## ReturnOfElfman (Sep 4, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Can I ask for some opinions and help please?
> 
> I've completed 2 beginners Japanese courses at a local uni (they only do these 2 courses), which I absolutely loved. So much so that the only thing I really want to do with my life is go to university to study Japanese full-time. Unfortunately for me, the local uni doesn't have a full-time course, and the nearest university offering such a course is several hundred miles away. I have two children, so moving or commuting is not an option, and I don't know of any distance-learning options.
> 
> ...


Maybe try get an online tutor to help?

I got one for Chinese through italki.com


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## gentlegreen (Sep 4, 2015)

Another no-show on Skype ...

I think I will add this to my profile :-

"Pourquoi pas être le premier à apparaître réellement !"


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## gentlegreen (Sep 8, 2015)

Just managed a whole hour with a Corsican. 

And the "bra lawyer" contacted me to apologise for not chatting - but she has young kids ... but will try to be online at some point


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## Mogden (Sep 8, 2015)

I keep buggering about with Duolingo for my French and actually I surprise myself with how much I know,  but I'm not brave enough for lots of conversation. And by surprised I mean I can read and write bits and pieces but of course my grammar, tenses etc need some work. I do turn over to French news sometimes and ear can pick out some words. I'm still not confident enough to chuff off to France alone.

My Japanese is still very rough and primitive but a conversation about Japanese with some English non native speakers was interesting as I could understand more there than anticipated.


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## Mogden (Oct 15, 2015)

Crumbs have a go at Memrise. I've been trying Japanese and French on it for the last couple of days and it absolutely nails my way of thinking. Making up silly patterns to remember stuff.  Totally works. Je suis content


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## gentlegreen (Oct 17, 2015)

Françaisfacile dried right up as a source of spoken French practice - even the Erasmus student coming to Bristol never read my reply - I thought at least there would be things to talk about. Presumably they found enough to contend with in real life.

Finding online language partners seems as contrived as online dating and I have had a grand total of two one hour chats.


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## Fez909 (Dec 31, 2015)

I've found a nice website for learning Mandarin: LearnYu -  learn Chinese the intelligent way

It's basically a rip-off of duolingo and it's pretty well done on a clearly much smaller budget. The method for entering the pinying characters is simple and the lessons seems at the right pace so far. There's a few minor bugs but nothing too bad. Well worth checking out for the absolute beginning, IMO.

I'm moving to China in June so will be using this as my starting point and I also enrolled in a Coursera thing earlier in the year which I didn't actually start. I might do that as well for a more formal/structured learning plan.

Any other resources out there?


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## maomao (Dec 31, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> I'm moving to China in June so will be using this as my starting point


Wow. You must like her. Whereabouts in China?

What are you aiming for? Spoken fluency? Full literacy? Getting by?

Chinese is a syntactically and morphologically very simple language. If you're aiming for full fluency and literacy I would bone up on vocab and characters at this point. I did a year of intensive language learning before I went to China but when I got there and tried to speak it I couldn't get far. However once I got a hang of the rhythm and tones of everyday speech the fact that I had a largish vocab to draw on meant I progressed very fast.

As far as materials I'd recommend the original Colloquial Chinese (T'ung and Pollard, not the Kan Qian one) and the Pimsleur tapes which are great for any language.


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## Fez909 (Dec 31, 2015)

maomao said:


> Wow. You must like her. Whereabouts in China?
> 
> What are you aiming for? Spoken fluency? Full literacy? Getting by?
> 
> ...


Thanks, some good stuff there.

And yeah, I really like her...some days 

We're going to Shanghai. She's being kicked out of the UK in Jan so she'll find a place for us, so there's not much for me to do in the meantime except save/pay off debts/learn Chinese.

I'm hoping to get a 'real' job there if it's possible, rather than just being an English teacher bum which is what I'll do initially. I don't know what level of Chinese I'll need for that, but I imagine pretty advanced unless it's with a Western/international company.


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## maomao (Dec 31, 2015)

Never been to Shanghai. But whatever happens you'll get to eat authentic xiaolongbao, so there's that.

The Pimsleur tapes are on Pirate Bay as is the T'ung and Pollard book. There's tonnes of good books on writing  on myanonymouse and other ebook sites.

Shanghai accent (mandarin accent, not Shanghainese which is a totally different language) tends to ignore the difference between words that end in 'n' and 'ng', also confuses n and l, so be ready for that. 

Any advice you need on China or cultural problems just ask.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 31, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> Thanks, some good stuff there.
> 
> And yeah, I really like her...some days
> 
> ...


If you're wanting to get a job legally, make sure you get something sorted before you go because you would have to return home to sort out a working visa anyway...

Advice for learning Chinese would be really practice tones and pronunciation first, then get an anki app on your phone and do flashcards. Get a basic vocab deck downloaded first then download the Spoonfed Chinese deck, which has thousands of sentences with audio that you can replicate. Brilliant resource and totally free. I'd also download the Chinesepod stuff, which can be torrented. Just listen to it as a way to study when you don't feel like studying any more or when you've just got 10-15 mins to spare.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 31, 2015)

Oh, and if you want to pop over to Wuhan on the high speed train, let me know. I'm also occasionally in Shanghai playing rugby


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## J Ed (Jan 17, 2016)

Does anyone have any experience of learning a third language through your second language?


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 17, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Does anyone have any experience of learning a third language through your second language?



When I was living in Spain, I found that many Spanish words were similar to French words that I knew, just pronounced differently, so that helped me a bit. I also understand some Czech, Polish and Russian after living in Slovakia for a couple of years. Not really the same as learning them though.


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## maomao (Jan 17, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Does anyone have any experience of learning a third language through your second language?


I did Japanese lessons in China (in Chinese) for a bit but I don't speak Japanese so it can't have been very useful.


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## miss direct (Jan 17, 2016)

Fez, I wish you luck. I have a few friends living in China but not in Shanghai. I have to say though that as someone who teaches English as their career, it can be a real job and not only bums do it. Not for everyone though.


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## Favelado (Jan 17, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Does anyone have any experience of learning a third language through your second language?



To some extent that's what happened with me in Portuguese. I arrived in Brazil and used Spanish as a base to learn.


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## J Ed (Jan 17, 2016)

goldenecitrone said:


> When I was living in Spain, I found that many Spanish words were similar to French words that I knew, just pronounced differently, so that helped me a bit. I also understand some Czech, Polish and Russian after living in Slovakia for a couple of years. Not really the same as learning them though.



Yeah, I am thinking about trying to learn French through Spanish but I'm not sure.


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## gentlegreen (Jan 18, 2016)

I briefly made myself available for correspondents again on français facile and once again I got someone who promptly started to instruct me just how we were going to proceed and it involved grammar exercises - my gut told me this was not going to work so I blocked him on Skype.
French men can be so humourless - I've struggled to find French nutrition experts (for example) I can bear to listen to ..

A second person - a woman - exchanged details, so we will see how it goes.
Not sure how whether there will be any Skype conversation with the Breton teacher / B&B owner I bumped into elsewhere ...


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## gentlegreen (Apr 22, 2016)

Just discovered an amateur live TV service - I haven't learned to navigate yet, but loads of French people speaking spontaneously - some of it interesting ...

Jean-Louis Giordano @Jielgeai


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## gentlegreen (Apr 23, 2016)

On second thoughts it seems you need a stream URL from another source. The signal to noise ratio is extremely low just clicking through in "couch" mode ...  mostly kids messing about. 

I'm a bit slow with these new media - discovered this because Reading uni are apparently going to relay a Steven Pinker lecture this way ...


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## gentlegreen (Apr 24, 2016)

Far too many people paying far too much attention to this app while operating machinery 



khalid @khalidsalamm

Yesterday I found someone making sushi using super-sharp knives ...

A guy in a toll booth

Jordan Chaduiron @JordanChaduiron

And there was someone in prison earlier.

It's useful in terms of learning French text-speak and Verlan


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## gentlegreen (Apr 26, 2016)

It was "la rentrée" yesterday, so periscope is dominated by kids pissing about in class.
Who would be a teacher in 2016 ?

I don't know how much of it is deliberate perverseness, but apart from the verlan and phonetic text shorthand, there's a lot of mixed-up imperatives / infinitives and past participles.


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## gentlegreen (Apr 26, 2016)

Not sure what to make of this one :-



LA TOUFFE  @La_Touffe77


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## gentlegreen (Apr 26, 2016)

Preparing frogs' legs :-

 

Melinda  @Meliiinda_21


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## gentlegreen (Apr 27, 2016)

in two evenings I have seen three domestic fires in blocks of flats, and multiple broadcasts from inside prison - and every other video features people smoking joints or shisha ...


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## ReturnOfElfman (May 9, 2016)

Handy website for practicing languages
www.clozemaster.com


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## Sue (May 20, 2016)

I've got a smart TV and Arte has just appeared as a free app. Still exploring but there seem to be programmes in French, German and Spanish -- a lot of documentaries but also films.


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## gentlegreen (May 21, 2016)

Periscope was turning out to be pretty crap as a source of language - being mostly kids messing around and with no archive - but they've now made it almost useless - having dropped the ability on the PC app to randomly jump within a language group.

I'm guessing Twitter want to force people to access periscope via twitter.


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## Dragnet (Dec 20, 2016)

Does anyone have any experience of using free apps (android) to learn? I'm trying to learn German and having something I can use little and often on me at all times would be helpful.


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## Thimble Queen (Dec 20, 2016)

Dragnet said:


> Does anyone have any experience of using free apps (android) to learn? I'm trying to learn German and having something I can use little and often on me at all times would be helpful.



Duo Lingo is ok but better when combined with other learning. Like reading basic news articles on the smart phone. Duo Lingo can get a bit repetitive but it's good for filling in time.

I'm learning German also btw. The Michel Thomas basic lessons are available on audible. It works out cheaper if you bulk buy a load of credits and buy them all at once. There's 7 lessons each lasting an hour at the beginners level. My Germans come on quite a bit from using those lessons. Obviously it's paid for but I'd recommend them. Beware his accent though, it's not great.


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## Dragnet (Dec 20, 2016)

Cheers, I'll check both of them out!


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## october_lost (Dec 26, 2016)

If you haven't already, check out audacity and anki. I swear by both.


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## Nine Bob Note (Feb 10, 2017)

I've (finally) been listening to the Paul Noble German course (which I bought in the Amazon Black Friday sale, IIRC) over the past week , and I'm impressed. It's highly repetitive, but I already feel I know more than I did after five years of GCSE German. He's like Michel Thomas, but with the charm. After PN's lesson eight, I listened to the first MT German track and I got all of it, but I feel only because I'd been primed by a better teacher.


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## iona (May 10, 2017)

Thimble Queen said:


> Duo Lingo is ok but better when combined with other learning. Like reading basic news articles on the smart phone. Duo Lingo can get a bit repetitive but it's good for filling in time.
> 
> I'm learning German also btw. The Michel Thomas basic lessons are available on audible. It works out cheaper if you bulk buy a load of credits and buy them all at once. There's 7 lessons each lasting an hour at the beginners level. My Germans come on quite a bit from using those lessons. Obviously it's paid for but I'd recommend them. Beware his accent though, it's not great.





Nine Bob Note said:


> I've (finally) been listening to the Paul Noble German course (which I bought in the Amazon Black Friday sale, IIRC) over the past week , and I'm impressed. It's highly repetitive, but I already feel I know more than I did after five years of GCSE German. He's like Michel Thomas, but with the charm. After PN's lesson eight, I listened to the first MT German track and I got all of it, but I feel only because I'd been primed by a better teacher.



Do either of you, or any other German-speaking urbs, have any other recommendations for a beginner (not me, a friend - she's also looking for a tutor in Kent in case anyone has any suggestions)? Esp free online/app stuff like duo lingo - I know you shared summat on Facebook recently Thimble Queen but that looked more advanced I think? 

Ta


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## Thimble Queen (May 10, 2017)

Deutsche Welle has free online lessons starting from the begining  Level A1 | DW.COM hope that helps


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## iona (May 10, 2017)

Ta mate, will pass that on 

Edit - have c&p'd some of your above post that I quoted too, hope that's OK?


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## Thimble Queen (May 10, 2017)

iona said:


> Ta mate, will pass that on
> 
> Edit - have c&p'd some of your above post that I quoted too, hope that's OK?



That's cool. I would recommend Paul Noble audiobooks for a total beginner btw. They are a lot more accessible, have a native german speaker on the tapes and are cheaper.


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## sihhi (May 18, 2017)

Sue said:


> I've got a smart TV and Arte has just appeared as a free app. Still exploring but there seem to be programmes in French, German and Spanish -- a lot of documentaries but also films.



What TV is this?


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## sihhi (May 18, 2017)

Any Mandarin learners, plugging away at HSK 4 at the moment, need friends, am lonely STOP


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## Sue (May 18, 2017)

sihhi said:


> What TV is this?


It's a Sony Bravia.


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## RedRedRose (Mar 2, 2021)

I want to up the ante with learning Latin. 

Dipped into books and used the memrise app, but meh....

I have a couple of hundred words under my belt, haven't nailed declensions just yet.


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