# Riots and looting in Birmingham....



## Fedayn (Aug 8, 2011)

BBC News reporting disturbances in Birmingham city centre....


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## T & P (Aug 8, 2011)

Shit... I've been thinking all afternoon it'd be a question of when rather than if... Wouldn't be surprised if it's gone national by the morning tbh...


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## Mogden (Aug 8, 2011)

I suspected this yesterday as there was a very heavy police presence when I was on my way back to Derby last night. Not good.


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## Barking_Mad (Aug 8, 2011)

BBC



> 1956:
> Back in Birmingham, reports suggest people are smashing windows on a street between the Bullring Shopping Centre and the West Midlands Police HQ.


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## baldrick (Aug 8, 2011)

it's on the street by St Philips.  Pigeon Park for brum-ites.  LA fitness has had some windows smashed.


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## Mogden (Aug 8, 2011)

Twitter feed for what it's worth

http://twitter.com/#!/BrumProtestor


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## Geri (Aug 8, 2011)

baldrick said:


> it's on the street by St Philips. Pigeon Park for brum-ites. LA fitness has had some windows smashed.



Revenge for their unfair contract terms?


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## Barking_Mad (Aug 8, 2011)

Photos here

http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 8, 2011)

Barking_Mad said:


> Photos here
> 
> http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/


Just saw that tweeted aswell


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 8, 2011)

baldrick said:


> it's on the street by St Philips. Pigeon Park for brum-ites. LA fitness has had some windows smashed.



I hope the fuckers don't touch the cathedral. I love that building.


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## moochedit (Aug 8, 2011)

I wonder if it'll spread to cov ?


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## Mogden (Aug 8, 2011)

And they better leave the benches alone in the cathedral gardens bit. One of those has great sentimental value to me!


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## BlackArab (Aug 8, 2011)

now hearing a Leeds rumour: RT @Barking_Madness: Talk of a man shot by police in #Chapeltown and fire. « Crikey :-/ #Leeds


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## StraightOuttaQ (Aug 8, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Just saw that tweeted aswell



Police started shutting city centre down about 330 - 4pm, in anticipation of disturbances between 4 - 6. Started late, i see.


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## machine cat (Aug 8, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> now hearing a Leeds rumour: RT @Barking_Madness: Talk of a man shot by police in #Chapeltown and fire. « Crikey :-/ #Leeds


Let's just hope it is a rumour.


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## Mogden (Aug 8, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-14449656


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## StraightOuttaQ (Aug 8, 2011)

The catholic or protestant cathedral? neither are outstanding architecturally. Mind you, neither are monumental edifices of capitalism.... Me? I hope to god Cash Generator doesn't get attacked!


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## editor (Aug 8, 2011)

Earlier thread here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/birmingham-heats-up-for-riots.278939/


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## baldrick (Aug 8, 2011)

It's all going a bit mad.  I can hear helicopters.


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## 8115 (Aug 8, 2011)

It's ok, Teresa May is back off holiday. A couple more of those "this is jolly naughty" press releases of hers and I'm sure order will be restored.


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## Ranbay (Aug 8, 2011)

*What England needs right now, is some sort of League of people to Defend the country from all these rioters.... shame nobody has come up with such a thing.*


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## treelover (Aug 8, 2011)

be careful what you wish for, lots of shopkeepers may indeed create one, not the EDL>..


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 8, 2011)

Apparently the wankers have smashed up the Square Peg. Phone shops and sports shops are one thing, but pubs are sacred. 

ETA: All just rumours at this point though.


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## 8115 (Aug 8, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *What England needs right now, is some sort of League of people to Defend the country from all these rioters.... shame nobody has come up with such a thing.*



Whatever.


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## Ranbay (Aug 8, 2011)

you want some tissues?


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## StraightOuttaQ (Aug 8, 2011)

Reports that The Square Peg pub on Corporation St has been smashed up, and Primark is currently on Fire. Shops in mailbox boarded up... In addition to MacDonalds and la Fitness windows being put through, footlocker / orange shops being looted.  Shit just got real.Rumors of disorder elsewhere in Birmingham, notably Handsworth and Kings Heath.


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## StraightOuttaQ (Aug 8, 2011)

LivsStill is opposite Cybercandy, and Cybercandy has just been done. Once they get across there and find the knives, its gonna get nasty.


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## baldrick (Aug 8, 2011)

handsworth? shit. went to carnival yesterday, such a good community get together.  it's such a shame, people shouldn't smash up their own areas.


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## StraightOuttaQ (Aug 8, 2011)

Reports of rioters heading down towards children hospital, which is currently being protected by riot police.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 8, 2011)

StraightOuttaQ said:


> Reports of rioters heading down towards children hospital, which is currently being protected by riot police.



It's ok, the hospital don't sell mobile phones or tracksuits so I'm sure it'll be fine.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 8, 2011)

And apparently Primark is _not_ on fire. Chinese twitters methinks.


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## Mogden (Aug 8, 2011)

And they've put the window through of Cybercandy, allegedly while the staff were still in there.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpml8ngYPD1r1p3wro1_500.jpg


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## mr steev (Aug 8, 2011)

StraightOuttaQ said:


> Reports of rioters heading down towards children hospital, which is currently being protected by riot police.


Seems a bit of a daft move. Steelhouse Lane Police Station is directly opposite the hospital. 
I've read rumours about the police needing to protect the hospital but I reckon (hope) that they'll be just making sure that there is access for ambulances


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## MBV (Aug 8, 2011)

Only problem with following this on twitter is that people are tweeting stuff like I seriously do not get what all these *riots* are about & now they've moved on to *Birmingham*! Ughhh


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## Zachor (Aug 8, 2011)

Reluctantly, maybe it's the time for water cannon to be used against these rioters?  The only group of people these riots are going to benefit is the mentalist far right (check some of the entries on the Telegraph BB on this subject ), especially as the police's current operational tactics are experiencing problems.  As a resident of Haringey I really feel for those who have lost homes, businesses and property not just in the Tottenham riot but elsewhere.

I think the police may have been taking a softly softly approach on the grounds of sensitive local situations and in some cases the age of the participants.  However, I think the time is now long past for this approach and maybe the police need to start being a bit more vigorous in their approach to these riots.

These are not protests, these are crimes pure and simple and therefore need to be dealt with as such.

For peoples information, I've heard that one of the local churches in Seven Sisters is trying to organise a collection of clothes, money and what not for the innocent people forced out fo their homes by the rioting scum.  If I get more details of this I'll let people know.

My sympathies are with people like those who have been forced out of their homes and their businesses not the rioters nor with anyone excusing them.  Anyone who wants to whine about the protests being a reaction to 'poverty' can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned.


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## Fedayn (Aug 8, 2011)

Zachor said:


> My sympathies are with people like those who have been forced out of their homes and their businesses not the rioters nor with anyone excusing them



Unless of course those forced out of their homes and businesses happen to be Palestinian........


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## Zachor (Aug 8, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Unless of course those forced out of their homes and businesses happen to be Palestinian........



Fuck me I thought I heard a fart and lo and behold you turn up.


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## Blagsta (Aug 8, 2011)

Zachor said:


> Reluctantly, maybe it's the time for water cannon to be used against these rioters? T*he only group of people these riots are going to benefit is the mentalist far right* (check some of the entries on the Telegraph BB on this subject ), especially as the police's current operational tactics are experiencing problems. As a resident of Haringey I really feel for those who have lost homes, businesses and property not just in the Tottenham riot but elsewhere.
> 
> I think the police may have been taking a softly softly approach on the grounds of sensitive local situations and in some cases the age of the participants. However, I think the time is now long past for this approach and maybe the police need to start being a bit more vigorous in their approach to these riots.
> 
> ...



You should be over joyed then.


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## elbows (Aug 8, 2011)

Zachor said:


> Reluctantly, maybe it's the time for water cannon to be used against these rioters?



I'm not sure it would actually help their response to any particular situations. So far we have not seen areas remaining in the hands of people for very long, no fixed lines that the police need extra kit to try and breakdown.

Deploying such things anyway, for the psychological effect, is probably a bit risky as I don't know how much it would act as a deterrent or fan the flames, and likely neither do they.

Im not sure what the police will do differently on future nights. Would have thought they could have more effectively pre-empted some stuff today, by putting large numbers on the ground in multiple locations before trouble started, not after, although this also carries some risk when it comes to 'community policing' lessons that they think they learnt from troubles decades ago.


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## moochedit (Aug 8, 2011)

moochedit said:


> I wonder if it'll spread to cov ?



rumours now on twitter about trouble in foleshill rd in coventry and also by the central six and one of my facebook friends is on about it as well. I have no idea if it's true. (edit - looks like it was just a road accident and people heard the sirens)


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## Mogden (Aug 8, 2011)

The riot vans are out in Derby now apparently and I've been told several sources point to a meeting up in Bass Recreation Ground here. Being fairly close to the city centre, I don't much fancy the idea of that.


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## StraightOuttaQ (Aug 8, 2011)

Rumours of Bentley Bridge retail park, Wolverhampton / Walsall / Bloxwich also. COBRA emergency meeting tomorrow morning.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 8, 2011)

StraightOuttaQ said:


> Reports of rioters heading down towards children hospital, which is currently being protected by riot police.



Can anyone get _actual_ confirmation on the rumours surrounding the childrens' hospital? What I'm reading in some places just seems too bonkers to be right. I'm surprised no photo's have emerged if true.

http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/


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## Mogden (Aug 8, 2011)

Just seen police vehicle with flashing blues drive very slowly past my place. Not sure if anything will kick off here but it looks like they're expecting it to.


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## Blagsta (Aug 8, 2011)

Sounds like rubbish to me. Children's hospital rumours, that is.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 8, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Sounds like rubbish to me. Children's hospital rumours, that is.



Yeah. I have direct confirmation from someone in the hospital now that it's all bollocks. Everything is fine.


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## kmarxs&sparks (Aug 8, 2011)

machine cat said:


> Let's just hope it is a rumour.


*The Childrens hospital has been hit. Rioters were smashing windows and attempted to bomb steelhouse lane police station. My friends mum was there and was escorted out of the hospital by police. I assume other people were too!! :/*

Nasty fuckers


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## kmarxs&sparks (Aug 8, 2011)

First - sorry about the font - something I haven't worked out.
Second - looks like the hospital isn't the target, just in the way but that's shit all of an excuse.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 8, 2011)

kmarxs&sparks said:


> *The Childrens hospital has been hit. Rioters were smashing windows and attempted to bomb steelhouse lane police station. My friends mum was there and was escorted out of the hospital by police. I assume other people were too!! :/*
> 
> *Nasty fuckers*



Oh yeah?  When was this then?


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 8, 2011)

kmarxs&sparks said:


> First - sorry about the font - something I haven't worked out.



Fair enough. Thought you were stirring.


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## kmarxs&sparks (Aug 8, 2011)

Oh fuck.



> LOTS of reports about serious trouble kicking off in Wolverhampton city centre….


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## kmarxs&sparks (Aug 8, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Oh yeah?  When was this then?



Link posted up the page a bit.

http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/


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## Blagsta (Aug 8, 2011)

kmarxs&sparks said:


> Link posted up the page a bit.
> 
> http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/


I don't believe a word of it. A children's hospital being attacked would be all over the news.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 8, 2011)

We should be really careful about these rumours. The riot a few years back in Lozells was the result of false rumours, and this led to reprisal attacks.

To reiterate, I have confirmation from a chaplain at the Childrens Hospital that nothing has happened. This was at about 10:45.


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## manny-p (Aug 8, 2011)

The childrens hospital is infront of the police station. I don't see why the childrens hospital would be a target.


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## Blagsta (Aug 8, 2011)

It's opposite the police station


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## T & P (Aug 9, 2011)

According to the Beeb a fucking _police station _in Holyhead Road is on fire now.


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## baldrick (Aug 9, 2011)

Yeah.  My fella's sister and niece live near there


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## stuff_it (Aug 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *What England needs right now, is some sort of League of people to Defend the country from all these rioters.... shame nobody has come up with such a thing.*



You do realise the Justice League is fictional don't you?


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## friedaweed (Aug 9, 2011)

Unmanned poliski station


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## dylans (Aug 9, 2011)

oops. didn't see the thread. mods feel free to delete or merge my thread


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## dylans (Aug 9, 2011)

StraightOuttaQ said:


> Reports of rioters heading down towards children hospital, which is currently being protected by riot police.


This is a bullshit twitter rumour. There are police there but no rioting.


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## friedaweed (Aug 9, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> You do realise the Justice League is fictional don't you?


Wonderwoman's totally racked in that pic.


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## skitr (Aug 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *What England needs right now, is some sort of League of people to Defend the country from all these rioters.... shame nobody has come up with such a thing.*



You mean like the groups of Turks/Kurds?!


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## StraightOuttaQ (Aug 9, 2011)

http://yfrog.com/ke76eyfj

Holyhead Road Police Station, Handsworth, On Fire.About 10-15 mins ago. But as They used to say on Crimewatch.....Don't have nightmares.


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## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

Sky is reporting West Midlands police saying over 100 arrests, which is high when you compare that to the Met's of just over 200 after 3 nights of it.


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## dirtyfruit (Aug 9, 2011)

I've been prowling, and cycling (which i won't try again on a shiny sexy look at me machine!) about town since I landed this afternoon.

Centre of town was borderline chaos earlier but the police keep them on the move. The cat and mouse went around the centre and looked like it could kick off badly, but never quite did, many times, some confrontations lasting longer than others, mostly a cop van or three arriving too late to a newly broked shop and driving the tools onto the next distraction point.. It could have got to full riot stage in pigeon park around 9, with around 300 yoots and only about max 20 visible cops, but they thankfully didn't get violent, in either direction, and then it slowly dispersed again.

A mixture of vast majority youngsters, 13-17, mainly along for the spectacle, and gang crims (in brum you get to know the type very quickly especially with a criminal lawyers next door and working at the court) 18 -35 most of which are cruising around 2-4 to a blacked out windows razz-mobile, the front seat passenger ALWAYS texting or speaking on their phones. Clever buggers are working loosely but effectively: if the rozzers boom past a sporty car will change direction and follow them at speed. Often the cars have been moving in twos or threes. Other cars lurk in dark corners and watch for the helicopter to move location, speading off in the opposite direction when it does.

The groups of foot yoot have been moving constantly. Into town, then out, then in again, then onto a new out of the centre location. Rarely in clusters of more than three. Once in a while a troupe of hooded menace can number over ten. They have been running the police ragged. And I estimate that there have been no more, at absolute max, 1000 (on the street) within the ringroad at any one time. Compare this, and their flightiness, with the supposed 300 police in town according to the boss lady police personage on the news, at about 10pm. I reckon less than half this number.

I must add that the pigs probable plan to avoid full on confrontation has been sensible, although it has made them look ineffective. I doubt that with 500 ploice they could have prevented the lotting and vandalism. They just couldn't cope with the speed of change. And the city being designed around the car and super centralised has altered the form this mass trouble compared to london own troubles. I say that but some prat has been revving his car outside my window for ten minutes so I'm going to take a photo of him and tell him to hop it.


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## rollinder (Aug 9, 2011)

twats repeating about the hospital on Billy Bragg's facebook.
"these lowlife even attacked the childrens hospitial in Birmingham,& there was people standing in their front gardens armed with pans,sticks etc trying to protect their homes from this scum. i hope the goverment crack down hard on these people.."
ffs


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## Termite Man (Aug 9, 2011)

Zachor said:


> My sympathies are with people like those who have been forced out of their homes and their businesses not the rioters nor with anyone excusing them. Anyone who wants to whine about the protests being a reaction to 'poverty' can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned.



You know it's possible to disagree with the rioters but try to understand the causes of it, and social inequality is something that has an effect on crime etc.


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## BigTom (Aug 9, 2011)

I was in town last night from the afternoon to around 11pm, and what DirtyFruit said is pretty well in line with what I saw.  I don't really have anything much to add to it to be honest.  Rumours flying it's going to kick off again, seen a tweet claiming that gangs at the bullring now, another saying 3pm meet.. fuck knows. I'm not sure I can be arsed to go back into town this afternoon/evening but might do if it does definitely kick off again.Be worse this time though, if they're going in the afternoon it's cos they know more shops will be open and it's even more about robbing than last night was.
last night, lots of kids out for the craic along with the people robbing. This afternoon, more likely to be gangs of steamers I reckon.  Hope it doesn't happen.


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## Mr.Bishie (Aug 9, 2011)

BBC reporting a crowd of about 200 kickin' off in West Brom.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

Does anyone know if extra police have been called in from other areas surrounding Brum?


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## mr steev (Aug 9, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Does anyone know if extra police have been called in from other areas surrounding Brum?



I hope not... it's kicking off in Wolverhampton now. I've just been to asda to find it shut, the staff locked in and a few coppers hiding round the corner. A few mates got locked in there too apparently. Town has had a very dark atmosphere this afternoon and sounds like it's getting violent now. There are a few riot vans around, but not many that I saw

eta: Not sure if it has turned nasty yet. Riot police are out in force in the center apparently


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## dirtyfruit (Aug 9, 2011)

It's rain dancing time


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## trashpony (Aug 9, 2011)

Cars on fire in West Bromwich apparently. And all sorts going down in Salford


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

mr steev said:


> Town has had a very dark atmosphere this afternoon and sounds like it's getting violent now. There are a few riot vans around, but not many that I saw
> 
> eta: Not sure if it has turned nasty yet. Riot police are out in force in the center apparently



Yeah, I felt that too. Although I just put it down to thoughts at the back of my head, and the fact there were more visible police than usual. I hope to god it doesn't kick off too bad tonight. Although the good weather makes me think it might.


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## Addy (Aug 9, 2011)

Loads of gangs congregating in the town centre and a small explosion down by marks n sparks in wolves about an hr ago.
Police in riot gear everywhere awaiting the start of it.


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## baldrick (Aug 9, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Does anyone know if extra police have been called in from other areas surrounding Brum?


There were police from staffs last night.

My fella's just been out and says hurst st is like a ghost town.  groups of riot cops looking all serious, no one out, shops and bars shut.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

Addy said:


> Loads of gangs congregating in the town centre and a small explosion down by marks n sparks in wolves about an hr ago.
> Police in riot gear everywhere awaiting the start of it.



Probably the firework that was thrown into a crowd. Video here.

http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/


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## Mogden (Aug 9, 2011)

Our Brum branch phoned in at about 3:15 this afternoon and said they were closing by half past and that a guy from Maplins had been in and said they were at it already. A couple of looters had just come in and nicked bits. Said he knew all the stock would be gone again by tomorrow. No idea if they restocked this morning but it seems madness to do so if they did. Atmosphere in the city centre is said to be unpleasant.


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## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

in that West Bromwich footage there were more plod than kids and they're literally standing there not moving watching them torching bins and trying to put a sprinter van over, they could've easily moved up the road towards them


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## Blagsta (Aug 9, 2011)

I've been sent home from work (near QEH) an hour early due to rumours of trouble in various areas.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

ddraig said:


> in that West Bromwich footage there were more plod than kids and they're literally standing there not moving watching them torching bins and trying to put a sprinter van over, they could've easily moved up the road towards them



Yeah, you think it's a cynical move by the police to make a political point about cuts to their budget? Or is it a tactical thing - i.e. taking photos to arrest later. Maybe just incompetence?


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## gawkrodger (Aug 9, 2011)

I work in central Wolves and we shut up early.

I wondered around the city centre around 4pm and can't say I felt much of a bad atmosphere and I've been in plenty of large scale public order situations. I know it's a bit more lively now but don't know what's happening exactly. The Super who's tweeting says the trouble in Wolves is confined to a relatively small area of the city centre and they've already knicked around 20


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## gawkrodger (Aug 9, 2011)

Bad news - sounds like it's moved down into Digbeth. Custard Factory apparently been attacked and sounds like the instituiton that is Ideal skateshop has been attacked


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## gawkrodger (Aug 9, 2011)

and BBC WM are reporting mollies being thrown


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

gawkrodger said:


> and BBC WM are reporting mollies being thrown


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## BigTom (Aug 9, 2011)

It doesn't sound good - digbeth definitely having trouble, heard multiple people saying ideal been hit  wouldn't surprise me, those shops aren't protected at all and some of the kids will be chuffed with a new skateboard I'm sure.
Gawkrodger, one of the other west mids IWW (mike, I don't think there's more than one - probably you're friends with him on fb) has just got back from there and said it's pretty hairy, last night felt safe, they were just after shops but he got chased by a load of them.
I'm not going in tonight, there's no point.
Let us know what happened in wolves when you know


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## Addy (Aug 9, 2011)

Wolverhampton
http://youtu.be/_dQeU4uFibE

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150339894281757.397181.518116756


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## BigTom (Aug 9, 2011)

There's a demo been called for Birmingham at 3pm at the bull ring by @nelsongrhum on twitter. I don't know him.  There's also facebook groups and pages popping up.
There will be another cleanup called and already one for 9am in wolverhampton.

I'm concerned about these facebook groups etc. and whether they are going to turn out to be braying mobs.  I've got a picture of the police  car in tottenham going on fire as my profile pic so I guess I'll probably attract some abuse if they do!

There's going to be a huge reaction to this.. if there's not a thread in here already specifically about what we should do I think I'll start one.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.justin.tv/sangattelevision#/w/1595016032/3

About as live as it gets. A bloke driving around with a camera filming the arrests in brum and streaming it live online.


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## BigTom (Aug 9, 2011)

That's pretty mad, just watched bit of it, really is just driving round the streets - do they stop if they see something going off?


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

BigTom said:


> That's pretty mad, just watched bit of it, really is just driving round the streets - do they stop if they see something going off?



Yeah, a few minutes back there was a guy being held to the ground and handcuffed. The police seemed to move the camera-guy on pretty swiftly though.

I get the feeling that the last of the rioters are being either rounded up or going home.

Now they are just onto archive footage.


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## baldrick (Aug 9, 2011)

the tescos on my road got broken into again about half an hour ago but the police arrived seconds later.  idiots.


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## gawkrodger (Aug 9, 2011)

That sangata stream had a hilarious bit (before it crashed for me) when some coppers asked for a lift down the road so they could then go and chase some kids


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## Mogden (Aug 9, 2011)

MVE now and presumably Richer next door when they can get in. Don't nick the DOMO!!


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 10, 2011)

I spoke too soon about it calming down. The trouble has just spread out into the surrounding areas. It's not a riot as such - it's just people doing what the fuck they like with impunity.

Ideal Skateshop in the Custard factory looted, 100 or so masked people walking down dudley road. What the fuck are the police doing exactly?


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## dylans (Aug 10, 2011)

Sky just reported that a gun has been fired at police in Aston


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 10, 2011)

dylans said:


> Sky just reported that a gun has been fired at police in Aston


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 10, 2011)

Most likely an unrelated incident to the 'riots', but still depressing.


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## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

absolutely baffled by the response of the police, I can remember spontaneous protests where even without notice the police mobilised hundreds and arrested and intervened rapidly...


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> absolutely baffled by the response of the police, I can remember spontaneous protests where even without notice the police mobilised hundreds and arrested and intervened rapidly...



You're right, it's baffling. I honestly believe it's all politicking to get the police cuts reversed.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 10, 2011)

An unconfirmed report



> Email Submission. Take this with a grain of salt as I have no way of verifying if the person who submitted it, is who they claim to be.
> 
> HMP Birmingham
> I am a Senior Officer at Winson Green - we are having a lot of trouble here, both within the prison and outside.
> ...



Didn't post it earlier, but now BBC are reporting an incident at a youth offenders place somewhere. Don't know if it links in.


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

Winson Green isn't a YOI.. iirc the YOI was in or near Bristol


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 10, 2011)

BigTom said:


> Winson Green isn't a YOI.. iirc the YOI was in or near Bristol



I know it's not. I meant that it was worth mentioning because of another story of similar events elsewhere. I wasn't too clear. It's late.


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

I think it's a cat A & B prison, but maybe more than that, it's pretty big and I'd be willing to bet there's a few in there who lived in our around Handsworth in the 80s, or anywhere else in the Midlands at that time and have been happy to hear about tottenham going up and who knows about the following stuff elsewhere.
Also, the prison officers there are being privatised and they're not happy about it (it's illegal for the POA to strike but they walked out on the day they were told and there's been talk of wildcat strikes) so this might be something to generate a bit of concern about what happens if this prison is privatised and not actually true


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 10, 2011)

BigTom said:


> I think it's a cat A & B prison, but maybe more than that, it's pretty big and I'd be willing to bet there's a few in there who lived in our around Handsworth in the 80s, or anywhere else in the Midlands at that time and have been happy to hear about tottenham going up and who knows about the following stuff elsewhere.
> Also, the prison officers there are being privatised and they're not happy about it (it's illegal for the POA to strike but they walked out on the day they were told and there's been talk of wildcat strikes) so this might be something to generate a bit of concern about what happens if this prison is privatised and not actually true



Interesting. There has to be more going on than appears on the surface. It all just seems so surreal.


----------



## belboid (Aug 10, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> An unconfirmed report
> 
> Didn't post it earlier, but now BBC are reporting an incident at a youth offenders place somewhere. Don't know if it links in.


Feltham


----------



## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

dylans said:


> Sky just reported that a gun has been fired at police in Aston



This seeming more like it might be true. BBC have said that police are investigating reports and Paul Lewis says the police are acting like there has been a major incident


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## manny-p (Aug 10, 2011)

Lots of problems in Aston and Lozells. Lets hope this does not turn into another race riot.


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## manny-p (Aug 10, 2011)

3 asian men are in hospital after being run over during a brawl on Dudley Road. There is talk that two of them have died. This is really bad.


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

UKRiots Riots 2011 

_by xv_brigada_ 

A 2nd man has died in Birmingham in the same incident as Shazaad Hussein
allybaba, have you a source for that? I assume it's the same incident as being reffered to - do you think that this is what the shooting actually was or something seperate


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## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

_*http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/*_

_*Serious problems if half this stuff is true.*_


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

yeah, I think the rioting will stop, but depending on what comes out as the circumstances of the deaths if they have happened it could create something else down the line


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-ideal-skate-shop/261934693817996

Ideal Skate shop - legends that they are - got turned over and are appealing for help..


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## dirtyfruit (Aug 10, 2011)

Ram raiding has been on my mind since it's got quieter on the streets after 11pm. Saw a break down vehicle being driven aggressively towards the centre of the jewelery quarter about 45 minutes ago. Then a convoy of lots of police vans going the other way a bit later? (BTW, the rozzer vehicles have been being followed all evening by yoot!) Less looters are still up, must be knackered and hungry too, but those that are are bolder, in cars and probably older and more crim hardened than the foot troups.

If i was a crim or gang boss with a couple of hundred mobile pumped up yes men about a massive score of gold or better cash would be on the cards tonight. Just too tempting when they have already got away with so much.


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## Badgers (Aug 10, 2011)

allybaba said:


> 3 asian men are in hospital after being run over during a brawl on Dudley Road. There is talk that two of them have died. This is really bad.



From the BBC:



> The death of a third man in the Dudley Road area of Birmingham following a suspected hit-and-run incident has been confirmed by family members at the City Hospital.



Nasty stuff and murder investigation launched. Police have arrested a man and a vehicle has been recovered.


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## manny-p (Aug 10, 2011)

BigTom said:


> UKRiots Riots 2011
> 
> _by xv_brigada_
> 
> ...



http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/press-release.asp?id=2396


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

Nothing more on the shooting that I can see, do you think that this incident got reported as a shooting in aston initially?


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## Dr. Furface (Aug 10, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> http://www.justin.tv/sangattelevision#/w/1595016032/3
> 
> About as live as it gets. A bloke driving around with a camera filming the arrests in brum and streaming it live online.


It was those guys - Sangat tv - that first reported last night's fatalities and then later showed scenes around the hospital where the victims were taken. It was incredible live reportage and the story wasn't even mentioned on bbc and sky for at least an hour after.


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

Worrying developments indeed. The Guardian updates page has lots more on this:



> Martin Wainwright and Riazat Butt are in Birmingham, talking to people there about the killing of three men who were run over as they tried to protect property last night:
> Feelings are running very high in Winson Green where residents of the largely British Asian area are out on the streets discussing the tragedy in shocked and angry groups.
> A committee meeting at the Dudley Road mosque this morning was 'very hot' according to a group of men who were there, and whose view was echoed by the Bishop of Aston Rt Rev Anthony Watson, who also took part.
> He warned of events taking on a 'potentially ugly race dimension' with real concern over reprisals if pleas for calm were not heeded. He said:
> ...


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## sihhi (Aug 10, 2011)

I only know of Birmingham from the media but the picture has been bad blood between *some *blacks and *some *Asians in parts of Aston Lozells, Newtown, Perry Bar. 2 black people were killed in Lozells in 2005, really confused picture
http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...sion-says-lozells-riots-study-97319-18960908/

Although the actual perpetrator is unknown: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-13133782


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

Well I'm 20 miles away myself, so my knowledge isn't that good either, but I know there have been problems in the past.

Fear not, Cameron will fix it, with the following also from the Guardian live updates:



> *1.11pm:* The West Midlands chief constable Chris Sims has appealed for calm following the deaths of three British Asian men in an apparent hit-and-run incident in the Winson Green area of *Birmingham* last night.
> He said one man has been arrested on suspicion of murder because information at the moment "would support the idea that the car was deliberately driven."
> Ahead of a visit by the prime minister to Birmingham later today, he said: "my concerns now will be that that single incident doesn't lead to a much wider and more general level of distrust and, even worse, violence between different commmunities."
> He added: "Later today the prime minister is attending Birmingham and going to other parts of the West Midlands. He has asked to meet with community leaders and I am sure he will be reinforcing the message that I will give, and that is at these difficult time people across all of our communities must trust the police to protect them.
> "We know that people are worried, angered perhaps. But I would appeal to people particularly at this time to be calm."


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

Here is a proper article about it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/uk-riots-birmingham-asians-killed-car


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

Football firms and probably EDL going to be in town tonight as well. that isn't going to help. rumours flying about what might go down tonight from the asian community.  fuck knows.. My hope that this would make everyone take a step back seem foolish now, and Pk's warning rather more astute.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 10, 2011)

The incident a few years back in the Lozells area was also to do with rumours that a 14 year old black girl had been raped by a group of asians. No evidence has been found that anyone was raped, but the rumours seem to have been the trigger that led to underlying tensions exploding.

I hope this time there is a better dialogue between communities now to prevent anything similar. Time will tell I suppose.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 10, 2011)

BigTom said:


> Football firms and probably EDL going to be in town tonight as well. that isn't going to help. rumours flying about what might go down tonight from the asian community. fuck knows.. My hope that this would make everyone take a step back seem foolish now, and Pk's warning rather more astute.



Where did you hear this? Very worrying if it's true.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

A few different places. I'm waiting to hear from someone who is in town to let me know what is happening. seen different times from 3pm to 6pm.. there's a fb event for 6pm, and obviously there's loads of tweets etc. but also heard the same from people who gave me heads up on stuff happening on monday, before the police issued a statement about it, and on tuesday.
the asian community stuff is just rumours. It could easily be shit stirring.  The football firm thing seems pretty solid, but I've not seen anything on here or twitter about it from the expose / everything edl type feeds so I've really no idea what's going on and whether it's anything to do with edl.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

.


----------



## gawkrodger (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm amused  that this facebook group is using images of an anarcho black bloc

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Birmingham-Youth-Defence-0121-United-Against-Rioters/196654900395343

The OB will be on top of football firms. They've got enough experience at it here. As for Lozells, I dread to think


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## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

'There will be race riots if the police don't sort this out quickly".He accused largely African-Caribbean looting gangs of targeting Asian-owned businesses, partly because they were perceived as easier targets compared with the city centre which was full of police.'

Isn't this the same in that happened in the U.S during the Rodney King riots with Korean shopkeepers being targeted...


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## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

''Asian, Black and White Youths United against the rioting scum in Birmingham!'

Doesn't look secretarian to me...


----------



## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

That group's new to me


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

Many of the comments, including ones from whoever setup the page, are not very promising.



> All youths were supposed to be together on this one, but obviously its the asians who are the only ones decent enough to look after their community - bigup asian youths!


----------



## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

A Guardian editor is presently tweeting from the city centre, all seems fine there at the moment.

http://twitter.com/#!/mswainwright


----------



## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

Wise words from the father of one of the dead, via BBC live updates page:



> *1936: *Tariq Jahan, whose 21-year-old son, Haroon, died after he was run over by a car in Birmingham, has called for people not to resort to vigilantism against rioters and asked his community to ''stand united"
> 
> *1938: *"Blacks, Asians, Whites, we all live in the same community. Why do we have to kill one another? What started these riots and what's escalated them? Why are we doing this? I lost my son. Step forward if you want to lose your sons. Otherwise, calm down and go home," Mr Jahan tells the BBC.


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## dirtyfruit (Aug 10, 2011)

Just cycled from 7 till 7:30 around the Jewellery Quarter, Gun, Aston/Eastside, Corporation, Colmore, Victoria Square, New Street , Mailbox, Broad Street, Cube, Five Ways, Sandpits then home. So missed out Digbeth and Highgate. Dead in city centre, not a huge number of police visible apart from key locations, which i won't mention on a public board, plus seen others hidden, practically no yoot. Drunk cricket fans heading home the only groups of note so far. It's cold, very gusty, and threatening to rain any minute.

No dodgy cars around either. Only suspicious activity was loiters under canel bridges etc but that's somewhat normal with the weather about to break. Although the canels proved a geat escape route for lots of looters last night so maybe they could use them to sneak in. It's not as tense in town as some have reported. Strangely calm; an early saturday, rather than sunday, morning vibe (plus a few extra cops).

If anything like the last two nights is planned then my hunch is it won't be in the centre at all. Police have been going around shops telling them to close up.

Hoping for a quiet night and some decent sleep. (And mostly no more totally unnecessary and violent deaths)


----------



## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks very much for the very informative posts you have made, really good to hear these kind of reports.


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## dirtyfruit (Aug 10, 2011)

helicopter hovering over Spring Hill Library/ Tesco area. Hopefully precautionary. Looting and sillyness will be quickly forgotten, escalation to full on race riots could set back community relations for a generation


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

The Birmingham weather is certainly helping.


*1950:* *Jess Brammar at ITV News *

*tweets*: Gave in and put my stab vest on - but more for the warmth than the protection at this stage, it's a bit chilly in Birmingham tonight


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## manny-p (Aug 10, 2011)

dirtyfruit said:


> helicopter hovering over Spring Hill Library/ Tesco area. Hopefully precautionary. Looting and sillyness will be quickly forgotten, escalation to full on race riots could set back community relations for a generation



Yep. Did anyone just watch channel 4 news? Last night Sikhs infront of a gurdwara(didnt catch which one) were apparently taunted by some black men in a car. They smashed the car up, dragged them out the car and beat one of them senseless.  Hopefully there are no race riots they would be appalling.


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

Looking at the rain radar I don't think it will be too much longer before a more substantial quantity of the wet stuff falls


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## dirtyfruit (Aug 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> Thanks very much for the very informative posts you have made, really good to hear these kind of reports.



Glad it's appreciated. There's a shocking lack of accurate up to date info from major media sources. They have failed hugely to cover the past 6 days events around the country. I'd go so far as to say they've made matters much worse.


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## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

'There's a shocking lack of accurate up to date info from major media sources. They have failed hugely to cover the past 6 days events around the country. I'd go so far as to say they've made matters much worse. '

Eh, not sure which Tv you have been watching


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## dirtyfruit (Aug 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'There's a shocking lack of accurate up to date info from major media sources. They have failed hugely to cover the past 6 days events around the country. I'd go so far as to say they've made matters much worse. '
> 
> Eh, not sure which Tv you have been watching



Read my post very carefully


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

Yeah thanks dirtyfruit, nice to get reports, with the rain starting I'm not going to take a look in the city centre. everything sounds quiet. I was genuinely concerned earlier on but when I heard the football fans thing never turned up I was less concerned.

Sangat TV is the only TV that's done good coverage of what's happened in Birmingham.


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## gawkrodger (Aug 10, 2011)

pissing it down now


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## Addy (Aug 10, 2011)

http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/







Them not footy fans comming to protect the city?

I wish an authority would cover this well and report actualities rather than everyone speculating and assuming.


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## Addy (Aug 10, 2011)

apparently, now they are reported as friendly cricket fans on their was to yhe station

see what mis information and reporting does?

no wonder the country is in a mess


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

I somewhat gave up on that blog due to its failure to filter our rubbish well, or do much fact checking.

Sangat TV is currently live at police HQ and are about to do an interview. Oh actually its gone to an advert now, not sure when they will be back with the interview.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/sangat-tv

They spotted some Grampian police van on the way in.


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

Police statement from a while ago (9pm):



> West Midlands Police have been monitoring a large gathering of people on Dudley Road in Winson Green this evening, which has now dispersed. There has been no disorder and the region as a whole remains peaceful tonight.
> As a precautionary measure, however, there is currently no access to Birmingham City Centre from the ring road.
> In the last four hours a further 25 people have been arrested including one man who handed himself in at a local police station for an offence committed during the recent disorder.
> Chief Supt. Phil Kay, speaking from the West Midlands Police Events Control Suite, said: "It is pleasing to see that people have listened to the calls for calm and that there has been no further disorder so far this evening.


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

yeah that blogs really unreliable just posting up anything.
There was a big match today at edgbaston, perfectly  conceivable that they are cricket fans, if they went from the stadium and got a bus down the bristol road, they'd walk up that road to new street.. pershore road bus would be a bit more logical though and that runs up that hill.  Would obviously be a lot of them at the same time..
It's impossible to tell from that photo.

Someone from swp was in town and aware that something was going to happen, and was there until 6:30 and said they didn't see anything.. this has been corroborated from a few different places.. so I don't think they turned up.


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

Also according to someone on twitter, a 'peaceful demonstration' was called off following advice from the police. I'm not sure which planned gathering this was referring to.


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

No more rain to help keep the peace for a while.


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## dirtyfruit (Aug 10, 2011)

BigTom said:


> ...
> 
> Sangat TV is the only TV that's done good coverage of what's happened in Birmingham.



Why haven't the likes of the BBC, C4 and Sky been driving around too? They've really missed a trick here. Perhaps slow to accept the nature of the Brum riots. Or more likely holding onto an inappropriate and outdated form of reportage. Like the main news websites and the papers thinking a whole evenings events over multiple locations with too much emphasis on emotive quotes, speculation and unconfirmed third hand gossip can be condensed into a 300 word article and be passed off as factually newsworthy. The next day ffs! I know they are trying to paint a picture for those who aren't there but in situations like this accurate factual reporting is needed. Not manipulative fucking scaremongering. Muppets.


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## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> Also according to someone on twitter, a 'peaceful demonstration' was called off following advice from the police. I'm not sure which planned gathering this was referring to.



There was one called by someone for 3pm, which was said to be a peaceful protest but said it was to protest against the scum destroying our city or something along those lines.  This got called off after the person who called it spoke to the police,
There was also one for 6pm which was supposedly the zulus and villa crew and football fans to protect the city. possibly a ploy by edl but it's not at all clear (from my understanding which is limited and others probably know better, the villa crew are fairly thick with edl, whilst the zulus are not and many are openly against edl).  This never materialised.  I guess we have to wait till after the pubs kick out to be sure.

Another demo - sitting in against violence - has been moved from friday to next wednesday.  This doesn't really have any political depth to it, it's pretty much the level of a candlelit vigil, it's not actually bad or anything it's just pointless.. you don't need to demonstrate against violence.. you need to demonstrate about the causes of the violence.  But anyway..


----------



## Dan U (Aug 10, 2011)

Will Ramadan come in to play here? 7 odd hours to eat, sleep and smoke. 

Tower hamlets has been quiet most of the last few days and I wonder about the connection


----------



## dirtyfruit (Aug 10, 2011)

From my corner window on Livery Street I can see half a mile up the road to include most of Great Hampton Street, bits of Constitution Hill, Aston Uni, and Snow Hill, half a mile down Livery to see a bit of Colmore row right at the top, part of the A38 and all the archways under the train lines along Livery including the canal entrance near Subway club. Oh, and south west right across St Pauls square nearly as far as Newhall.

And for the last hour it has felt like 4 in the morning. On a week night. One taxi every 10/15 minutes, as per any hour of the day. A few individual black windowed cars earlier, perhaps 8-9 in total, two of which left from the really dodgy club nearby after the helicopter flew by towards Eastside. I walked around the block at 10pm and saw one hoodie on a bike in the back streets, one very attractive blonde on the main street who looked a bit lost and then a police van passed me, ignoring my massive green hooded jacket, possibly because I was wearing shorts. The cops seemed to know they were being followed at a distance by a small black corsa with blacked out windows and so sped off down Ludgate so throwing him off. Very greasy under foot, even in my new basketball sneakers. Black and red incase anyone cares. Proper rudeboy innit.

Time for bed


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## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

Has anyone seen the frontpage of the DM tomorrow?  V. surprised at the general angle they're taking. http://twitpic.com/642uif


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

'A race murder'?  Does Pk write for them?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

.


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## manny-p (Aug 10, 2011)

dirtyfruit said:


> From my corner window on Livery Street I can see half a mile up the road to include most of Great Hampton Street, bits of Constitution Hill, Aston Uni, and Snow Hill, half a mile down Livery to see a bit of Colmore row right at the top, part of the A38 and all the archways under the train lines along Livery including the canal entrance near Subway club. Oh, and south west right across St Pauls square nearly as far as Newhall.


Nice view.


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2011)

You aren't likely to catch me supporting the Daily Mails choice of words, but I don't know why that angle in general would be surprising, since its at the heart of fears about what could happen next in Birmingham.

For example see quite a number of paragraphs in the middle of this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/england-riots-police-birmingham-dead


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 11, 2011)

The BBC are pushing this angle as well. It completely surprised me the first time I heard them say, on an R4 bulletin, without any explanation, "Police have confirmed that the suspect is black".


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 11, 2011)

elbows said:


> You aren't likely to catch me supporting the Daily Mails choice of words, but I don't know why that angle in general would be surprising, since its at the heart of fears about what could happen next in Birmingham.


Yes, it could incite inter racial violence.  But to call _these killings_ "race murders"?  It's the first indication I've seen that there may have been a racial motive.  Where does that come from?  Was there?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 11, 2011)

It's all so much easier if we can pretend this is all a "race riot" though isn't it? That's what the ethnics do, and the poor white racists on estates. Irrational animal behaviour. Don't have to think about it, just get out the water cannons. It's been a common theme in a lot of blogs I've seen, even if it's losing traction when describing events in London now since it patently is nothing of the sort.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 11, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's all so much easier if we can pretend this is all a "race riot" though isn't it? That's what the ethnics do, and the poor white racists on estates. Irrational animal behaviour. Don't have to think about it, just get out the water cannons. It's been a common theme in a lot of blogs I've seen, even if it's losing traction when describing events in London now since it patently is nothing of the sort.


It's depressingly lazy, though.  There are ethnics, therefore it's racial.

Now, there _have_ been tensions between black youths and Asian youths in the Midlands, so if it turns out that that's what motivated these murders it wouldn't be out of the blue.  But on the face of it the Mail has just said: "Ah, black guy kills Asian guys.  That's a race murder".


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, it could incite inter racial violence. But to call _these killings_ "race murders"? It's the first indication I've seen that there may have been a racial motive. Where does that come from? Was there?


 
I'm not sure we'll ever get a satisfactory answer to that question. In the absence of anything solid, it will likely be considered to be some part of the mix, and really its the possible future ramifications of this stuff that the media have a close eye on now.

When I said the angle wasn't a surprise, I wasn't completely sure which bit of the DM story was considered a surprise, so I wasn't trying to defend their terminology when it came to the nature of the murder itself. They are sloppy fuckwits with their own agendas as usual.

The reason I cannot shy away from the race dimension in this case, is based not so much on whether the driver or the victims had race issues on their minds at the moment of horror, but on wider perceptions. Loads of people see a racial dimension, and that in itself is sadly enough to ensure that these killings have that dimension, even if it wasn't at the heart of the incident itself, it weighs heavy on the broader context.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2011)

Divide and conquer, nothing new..._let them fight it out amongst themselves, wear themselves out etc._ Nothing will change!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2011)

elbows said:


> I'm not sure we'll ever get a satisfactory answer to that question. In the absence of anything solid, it will likely be considered to be some part of the mix, and really its the possible future ramifications of this stuff that the media have a close eye on now.
> 
> When I said the angle wasn't a surprise, I wasn't completely sure which bit of the DM story was considered a surprise, so I wasn't trying to defend their terminology when it came to the nature of the murder itself. They are sloppy fuckwits with their own agendas as usual.
> 
> The reason I cannot shy away from the race dimension in this case, is based not so much on whether the driver or the victims had race issues on their minds at the moment of horror, but on wider perceptions. Loads of people see a racial dimension, and that in itself is sadly enough to ensure that these killings have that dimension, even if it wasn't at the heart of the incident itself, it weighs heavy on the broader context.



I heard the guys that were run over were defending shops/businesses....if anyone was trying to get away I am pretty sure the driver would not have given two shits 'who' he was knocking over to do that. Sad, horrible story.


----------



## skitr (Aug 11, 2011)

I was mainly surprised at the fact DM were praising anybody that wasn't white british, although I've now realised it's a double edged praise. I'm still surprised at the fact they went that way, and the fact they've called it race murders.


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2011)

Reading it again I can see why its surprising that the Daily Mail might not only manage to spot sanity when it speaks calmly to us, but also applaud it.


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> I heard the guys that were run over were defending shops/businesses....if anyone was trying to get away I am pretty sure the driver would not have given two shits 'who' he was knocking over to do that. Sad, horrible story.



Yeah that may be it. People will want more detail or they will start adding in their own made up stuff, and I guess the police will be sweating a bit over how to handle the case. There isn't a large amount of detail yet, not that I have found so far anyway. Initial accounts make it sound like the car deliberately mounted the pavement, but I didn't hear anything about why it may have taken that action, such as whether the road was obstructed. Chances are I may not be clued up on other details that are already out, so I won't go on any further at this point.


----------



## extra dry (Aug 11, 2011)

sounds more gang related, different gangs, different race cohesion, the only family they respect is the 'Gang' , these riots will rewrite the boundaries of gang organization and operations.


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## elbows (Aug 12, 2011)

There is to be a march in memory of the dead later:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14501967


----------



## Ms T (Aug 12, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The BBC are pushing this angle as well. It completely surprised me the first time I heard them say, on an R4 bulletin, without any explanation, "Police have confirmed that the suspect is black".



I'm amazed at that as well.  I wouldn't have let that go unchallenged (I write those bulletins but wasn't at work yesterday).


----------



## elbows (Aug 13, 2011)

Man and teenager charged with murder over the three deaths, according to bbc news ticker, I haven't heard more detail yet.

edited to add story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14519779



> A 17-year-old male from Winson Green and Joshua Donald, 26, from Ladywood, have been charged with three counts of murder each.
> The pair are due to appear before Birmingham magistrates on Sunday.
> A West Midlands Police spokeswoman said a 16-year-old boy and a 32-year-old man arrested on suspicion of murder had been bailed pending further inquiries.
> Two other men aged 23 and 27 who were arrested on Friday remain in police custody.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 20, 2011)

Not sure if this has been posted - http://www.youtube.com/westmidlandspolice#p/c/0800AA224A8B56C2


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## elbows (Aug 20, 2011)

No I don't think that had been posted before, its only been released very recently.

Heres an article about it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/20/riot-footage-shots-fired-police



> New CCTV footage of the riots in Birmingham shows police officers and a force helicopter being shot at.
> The footage, which has been released by West Midlands police to encourage members of the public to come forward, shows a group of 30 to 40 young men rioting in the Newtown area of the city on the night of Tuesday 9 August.
> The force said the group, all masked and wearing black clothing, caused extensive damage to the Barton Arms pub in Newtown and the surrounding area.
> Police arrived at the scene at about 11.50pm, whereupon petrol bombs were thrown at a marked police car and 11 shots were fired at officers and a force helicopter.
> An attempted murder and arson investigation has been launched and officers have appealed for anyone with information about the attacks to contact them.


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## likesfish (Aug 20, 2011)

People who know more about guns reckon it was some form of home made ammo in a zip gun/converted replica hence the repeated cocking of the handgun.
 nasty if some cunts next to you useless for shooting at helicopters


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## baldrick (Aug 20, 2011)

they have kept that very quiet.  considering there were loads of rumours flying around about gunshots in Aston, which i think were dismissed eventually after no one confirmed it, that's pretty impressive.  presumably some kind of embargo was put on.


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