# BNP demo in Croydon on October 5th



## HST (Oct 1, 2013)

Text of an email I received today. Apologies if this has already been posted here.

*Subject:* ANTI-BNP COUNTER DEMO: CROYDON SATURDAY 5 OCTOBER


*Oppose the Fascist BNP in Croydon: Don't Let the Racists Divide Us*
*
Assemble 11.00AM
Saturday 5 October
Lunar House,
40 Wellesley Rd,
CROYDON CR9*

The Nazi BNP have called a demo in Croydon on Saturday 5th October. They are targeting the immigration offices in an attempt to build their profile and gain support in the run up to the 2014 Euro elections. We need to ensure that the BNP doesn't get a foothold locally.

PCS has members in the targeted sites, including Lunar House, and together with Croydon Trades Council we are supporting the Unite Against Fascism (UAF) counter-protest. We need a large, united show outside Lunar House on the day. We want to show them that there's no place for them in Croydon and South London .


Please do all you can to support the counter-demonstration.


Thanks and regards,


*Andy Thomas*

*PCS L&SE Regional Secretary*


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## Quartz (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm too far away to offer anything more than moral support, but I'll offer it all the same.


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## HST (Oct 1, 2013)

Quartz said:


> I'm too far away to offer anything more than moral support, but I'll offer it all the same.



Your support is appreciated. For those in travelling distance it's a short walk from both East and West Croydon railway stations, nearest tramstops Wellesey Road or East Croydon.


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## eatmorecheese (Oct 1, 2013)

Will be there.


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## Miss-Shelf (Oct 1, 2013)

Nanker Phelge


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## ddraig (Oct 5, 2013)

http://www.slaf.org.uk/post/63166777485/south-london-anti-fascists-statement-on-croydon
18?


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## krink (Oct 5, 2013)

what is that picture on the banner?


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## HST (Oct 5, 2013)

SLAF seem to be a right bunch of plonkers.


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## J Ed (Oct 5, 2013)

krink said:


> what is that picture on the banner?



I was trying to work that out myself, it almost looks like a cave...


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## krink (Oct 5, 2013)

is it a...um....woman's bits? wtf????


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 6, 2013)

Yeah it looks like one of those pictures you used to see on the wall of the bogs at school with 'your mum' written above it.


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## Belushi (Oct 6, 2013)

Christ, idiots


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## frogwoman (Oct 6, 2013)

thats obviously someones fanny


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## stethoscope (Oct 6, 2013)

I thought this last night - but my eyes aren't the best tbh. I mean, why would that even seem like a good (or relevant) idea?!


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## ddraig (Oct 6, 2013)

i was hoping it wasn't that


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## kenny g (Oct 6, 2013)

SLAF must either be riddled with undercover sabotagers or complete idiots. Maybe both.


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## HST (Oct 6, 2013)

I'd go for idiots.


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 6, 2013)

What exactly is it supposed to get across anyway? I assume it's meant to convey some kind of message.

I can only think of two possibilities, both of them stupid.

1) They talk about female refugees being raped in prison - is it supposed to depict that? If so very poor taste.

2) They're saying the BNP/UK border agency are all cunts. Again, very poor taste.

I mean, I assume they must have got together to discuss what was going on that banner and they all, or at least a majority, agreed that a picture of someone spreading their legs to reveal their fanny was a good idea. This gives me serious doubts about their judgement and even if it didn't also raise doubts about their political principles I would still strongly urge anyone active in that area to avoid them like the plague cos they would almost certainly prove to be a complete and utter liability.


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## Belushi (Oct 6, 2013)

When this comes up on urban I'm usually on the side of those that argue that using cunt as a term of abuse isn't inherently sexist; but there's no divorcing it from it's origins as a term for female genitalia there.


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## bignose1 (Oct 6, 2013)

krink said:


> what is that picture on the banner?


piss flats


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## cesare (Oct 6, 2013)

I can't make out what's on the banner, but if it's a picture of a cunt it makes a nice change from a picture of a spunking cock and balls.


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## HST (Oct 6, 2013)

We could do with a militant anti-fascist group in South London. SLAF clearly are not what we need. As another poster said "avoid like the plague".


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## Red Storm (Oct 6, 2013)

I can't believe the actually use the Labour 25 thing at demos. I thought it was just one of Tumulty's jokes!

http://reelnews.co.uk/bnp-demo-at-border-agency-an-embarrassing-flop/


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## ddraig (Oct 6, 2013)

so it is female bits!


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## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2013)

How do we know SLAF did it? And isn't it supposed to be someone pissing on the loons and cranks assembled below?


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## HST (Oct 6, 2013)

There you go butchers http://www.slaf.org.uk/post/63166777485/south-london-anti-fascists-statement-on-croydon


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## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2013)

That still doesn't say it's theirs though - i think it probably is mind.


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## cesare (Oct 6, 2013)

HST said:


> There you go butcthers http://www.slaf.org.uk/post/63166777485/south-london-anti-fascists-statement-on-croydon


Catch up. That link was at #6


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## HST (Oct 6, 2013)

up to SLAF to deny it's theirs


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## cesare (Oct 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> That still doesn't say it's theirs though - i think it probably is mind.


Yep I think it probably is. Not sure it warrants SpineyNorman going into meltdown unless he's interrogated em on twitter and got a copy of the minutes of whatever meeting he thinks it was agreed at


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## cesare (Oct 6, 2013)

Maybe the feminist faction of SLAF did it


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## HST (Oct 6, 2013)

off to the political re-education camps with you comrade


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## cesare (Oct 6, 2013)

HST said:


> off to the political re-education camps with you comrade


You'll never make me a trot/ex trot


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## HST (Oct 6, 2013)

cesare said:


> You'll never make me a trot/ex trot


 i'm an anarchist but i was raised by a feminist.


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## stethoscope (Oct 6, 2013)

No pissaran, etc.


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## ddraig (Oct 6, 2013)




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## cesare (Oct 6, 2013)

steph said:


> No pissaran, etc.


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## TopCat (Oct 6, 2013)

HST said:


> SLAF seem to be a right bunch of plonkers.


They are a decent bunch of people. No platform plus class politics. Whats not to like?


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## cesare (Oct 6, 2013)

HST said:


> i'm an anarchist but i was raised by a feminist.


Both those terms are so vague as to be meaningless. You could be an Occupy type anarchist and your feminist upbringing could be identity politics-led. I'm not saying that's the case, but seriously why are you getting on your high horse here?


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## TopCat (Oct 6, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> What exactly is it supposed to get across anyway? I assume it's meant to convey some kind of message.
> 
> I can only think of two possibilities, both of them stupid.
> 
> ...


I have joined up. I urge others to do so.


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 6, 2013)

cesare said:


> Yep I think it probably is. Not sure it warrants SpineyNorman going into meltdown unless he's interrogated em on twitter and got a copy of the minutes of whatever meeting he thinks it was agreed at



Fuck off


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## TopCat (Oct 6, 2013)

I will find out about the banner soon enough. Speculation is just that.


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## love detective (Oct 6, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> What exactly is it supposed to get across anyway? I assume it's meant to convey some kind of message.
> 
> I can only think of two possibilities, both of them stupid.
> 
> ...



I agree with your criticism of the banner and what it says about their judgement but don't think the overall conclusion is warranted

Most of the folk involved in it seem to be young and/or students (or studenty) and like any group will make mistakes from time to time. They, both individually and as a group, have made mistakes in the past and have shown signs of learning from them. For example Gerry Gable was sniffing around them a few months back and asked one of the younger organisers (who seemed oblivious to what Searchlight are) to come and speak at some Searchlight event, which they then talked about quite favourably. After it was pointed out exactly who GG was and why Searchlight should be proscribed they cut off the contact with them

They do have a decent class based perspective and are trying to make themselves relevant in various social, cultural and other walks of life in south london. I still think they are a bit too studenty - weekly meetings held in university etc which can be alienating for non-students..and a little bit too activisty, but I think they are self aware enough about these criticisms and seem to be attempting to do some decent things to ensure they don't get bogged down in that swamp.

On the downside though I think they are likely to overreach and try and do too much in too many different areas at once and end up doing nothing effectively (or losing control over things which looks like what happened here)


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## cesare (Oct 6, 2013)

It's like AFA v but also with the Dam with the Trots tut tutting all over again


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## Limerick Red (Oct 7, 2013)

It was a SLAF banner. They are a new group, mostly students and for most its their first time involved in anti-fascist politics. The banner wouldn't be my cup of tea, a bit purile, but at least they got off their arses and got down to croydon.
I always laugh at the "what we need is a militant group/100 working class builders to put it up the fash" , because A) there isnt a "left wing working class blokes, who are handy" superstore and B) Croydon was plodded up to fuck, wouldnt have being very bright gettin stuck in.
SLAF as mentioned are a bit studenty/activisty, but have being putting in a hell of alot of work over the last few months, and if people have beef with their politics, they are a very open group, you can get involved and give your advice/experience.
One of the problems with anti-fascism at the moment is that their are very few people still involved from AFA/NP/Antifa, so these kids are kinda starting from scratch, so there will be teething problems and growing pains.
But ya the banner was a bit shit.


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## kenny g (Oct 7, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> a bit shit.



I'd say very shit.


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## Limerick Red (Oct 7, 2013)

kenny g said:


> I'd say very shit.


well ya know what they say about opinions....they're like vaginas, ...eh...everyones got one......eh....


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## The39thStep (Oct 8, 2013)

love detective said:


> I agree with your criticism of the banner and what it says about their judgement but don't think the overall conclusion is warranted
> 
> Most of the folk involved in it seem to be young and/or students (or studenty) and like any group will make mistakes from time to time. They, both individually and as a group, have made mistakes in the past and have shown signs of learning from them. For example Gerry Gable was sniffing around them a few months back and asked one of the younger organisers (who seemed oblivious to what Searchlight are) to come and speak at some Searchlight event, which they then talked about quite favourably. After it was pointed out exactly who GG was and why Searchlight should be proscribed they cut off the contact with them
> 
> ...



Seem to lack a business plan?


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## DotCommunist (Oct 8, 2013)

on a minor side note. The people who automatically prefix 'BNP' with 'the racist'.

do they think people are unsure of the orgs status wrt race? It's not like people don't know is it?


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## Casually Red (Oct 8, 2013)

TopCat said:


> They are a decent bunch of people. No platform plus class politics. Whats not to like?



that massive hairy minge on their banner


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## HST (Oct 8, 2013)

If SLAF learn from this - and I think they will - I withdraw my "plonkers" comment. Fair play to them for sussing out the area, getting a large banner together and stringing it up opposite Lunar House. Shame it was a crap banner.


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## cantsin (Oct 8, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> It was a SLAF banner. They are a new group, mostly students and for most its their first time involved in anti-fascist politics. The banner wouldn't be my cup of tea, a bit purile, but at least they got off their arses and got down to croydon.
> I always laugh at the "what we need is a militant group/100 working class builders to put it up the fash" , because A) there isnt a "left wing working class blokes, who are handy" superstore and B) Croydon was plodded up to fuck, wouldnt have being very bright gettin stuck in.
> SLAF as mentioned are a bit studenty/activisty, but have being putting in a hell of alot of work over the last few months, and if people have beef with their politics, they are a very open group, you can get involved and give your advice/experience.
> One of the problems with anti-fascism at the moment is that their are very few people still involved from AFA/NP/Antifa, so these kids are kinda starting from scratch, so there will be teething problems and growing pains.
> But ya the banner was a bit shit.



does anyone know what the actual symbolism/meaning of the big minge was supposed to be in this context ? seems a bit abstract


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## Casually Red (Oct 8, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> thats obviously someones fanny



yes..but whos
there was a serious amount of effort went into that by the looks of things. 


Im quite sure they could be sound but the explanation behind that one is destined to go down in legend i suspect .


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## Limerick Red (Oct 8, 2013)

cantsin said:


> does anyone know what the actual symbolism/meaning of the big minge was supposed to be in this context ? seems a bit abstract


Im not a SLAF member, so not going to speak on their behalf, but as often banners, someone arty and who had the time, said they would make a banner, really doubt there was a brain storming session where this was what was decided.
Live and learn.


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## Casually Red (Oct 8, 2013)

cantsin said:


> does anyone know what the actual symbolism/meaning of the big minge was supposed to be in this context ? seems a bit abstract



one of them was caught by the others drawing a huge hairy vag which he intended to take to the spurs match with the logo..sam allaradyces mum. The others burst in unannounced and on demand of an explanation said it was a banner protesting against  patriarchy. Not everyone was immediately convinced but someone popular was delighted and they all went along with it, much to the fanny drawers relief. There wasnt much room left for the letters but he managed to get them in in the end.

and so a legend was born


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## Onket (Oct 8, 2013)

Website says it's their AGM this Sunday. Open invite. Go and find out.


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## HST (Oct 8, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Im not a SLAF member, so not going to speak on their behalf, but as often banners, someone arty and who had the time, said they would make a banner, really doubt there was a brain storming session where this was what was decided.
> Live and learn.


This


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## cantsin (Oct 9, 2013)

"We are bored in the city, there is no longer any Temple of the Sun. Between the legs of the women walking by, the dadaists imagined a monkey wrench and the surrealists a crystal cup. That’s lost."  Chtcheglov / Formulary for A New Urbanism


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## Nice one (Oct 9, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> It was a SLAF banner. They are a new group, mostly students and for most its their first time involved in anti-fascist politics. The banner wouldn't be my cup of tea, a bit purile, but at least they got off their arses and got down to croydon.
> I always laugh at the "what we need is a militant group/100 working class builders to put it up the fash" , because A) there isnt a "left wing working class blokes, who are handy" superstore and B) Croydon was plodded up to fuck, wouldnt have being very bright gettin stuck in.
> SLAF as mentioned are a bit studenty/activisty, but have being putting in a hell of alot of work over the last few months, and if people have beef with their politics, they are a very open group, you can get involved and give your advice/experience.
> One of the problems with anti-fascism at the moment is that their are very few people still involved from AFA/NP/Antifa, so these kids are kinda starting from scratch, so there will be teething problems and growing pains.
> But ya the banner was a bit shit.



they're not that new, they've been going since 2008. The chairperson (voted for 4 years running) recently applied to stand for assistant secretary of UAF. From their website they seem to have a well structured and organised group dynamic, which is refreshing to say the least, maybe the reality is a bit different though.


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## love detective (Oct 9, 2013)

wee bit of clarification needed there - the group in some shape or form existed for around 4 years up until January 2012 when at the AGM it was disbanded and replaced with the short lived South London Community Action Network which politically seemed like a sensible 'give up anti fascism' type approach to take

It was at this point that the previous chair attempted to run for assistant secretary of UAF, not because he had illusions about UAF as it was but illusions that it was possible to change UAF to become a more rooted pro working class community organisation that would ditch all the things that makes it so shit (this is an example of the kind of idealism mixed with naivety that I was referring to earlier). From what I remember because of this position, UAF managed to find some administrative technicality that allowed them to prevent him from actually standing and kicked him off the ballot.

thankfully the remerged explicitly titled anti fascist group retained the commitment to the value of community organisation as a form of anti fascist activity and from time to time demonstrate that commitment by bringing along a big banner with a fanny on it.

Also to Limerick Red and HST - from what i've seen there have been no signs internally of anyone learning anything from this


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## TopCat (Oct 9, 2013)

love detective said:


> wee bit of clarification needed there - the group in some shape or form existed for around 4 years up until January 2012 when at the AGM it was disbanded and replaced with the short lived South London Community Action Network which politically seemed like a sensible 'give up anti fascism' type approach to take
> 
> It was at this point that the previous chair attempted to run for assistant secretary of UAF, not because he had illusions about UAF as it was but illusions that it was possible to change UAF to become a more rooted pro working class community organisation that would ditch all the things that makes it so shit (this is an example of the kind of idealism mixed with naivety that I was referring to earlier). From what I remember because of this position, UAF managed to find some administrative technicality that allowed them to prevent him from actually standing and kicked him off the ballot.
> 
> ...



This criticism has a dubious smell to it. Because Red Action decided to disband AFA and focus on the IWCA project no one else must carry on any sort of activity that might be likened to anti fascism. Indeed any need to carry out anti fascist activity must played down other wise it makes the decision to disband AFA look questionable.  

This leads to good people from RA/AFA backgrounds refusing to support antifa prisoners in any way, let alone offering the benefit of their experience and wisdom which almost everyone would acknowledge would be very welcome and useful. Lots of opportunities are being missed (not least in building links across communities) whilst the IWCA continues to wither on the vine.


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## love detective (Oct 9, 2013)

if something doesn't exist can it have a smell?

what criticism are you talking about? my posts about SLAF on this thread have been very balanced

everyone on this thread has criticised the banner and I presume everyone would criticise the UAF as well - so not sure why you've chosen my post above to make your point to as those are the only two things i've criticised there


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## HST (Oct 9, 2013)

TopCat said:


> This criticism has a dubious smell to it. Because Red Action decided to disband AFA and focus on the IWCA project no one else must carry on any sort of activity that might be likened to anti fascism. Indeed any need to carry out anti fascist activity must played down other wise it makes the decision to disband AFA look questionable.
> 
> This leads to good people from RA/AFA backgrounds refusing to support antifa prisoners in any way, let alone offering the benefit of their experience and wisdom which almost everyone would acknowledge would be very welcome and useful. Lots of opportunities are being missed (not least in building links across communities) whilst the IWCA continues to wither on the vine.



Sorry, but I think this is total bollocks. Who has refused to support anti-fascist prisoners? As for offering the benefits etc have you approached anyone?


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## jimmer (Oct 10, 2013)

love detective said:


> Also to Limerick Red and HST - from what i've seen there have been no signs internally of anyone learning anything from this


This isn't the case but I'm not going to go into details on here.


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## love detective (Oct 10, 2013)

all i've seen are refusals to explain or justify the reason for it or a couple of very poor attempts to justify it while moaning at people who didn't like it to 'lighten up'

pathetic


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## Onket (Oct 10, 2013)

Yes, the banner was a bit shit. Move on.


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## jimmer (Oct 10, 2013)

love detective said:


> all i've seen are refusals to explain or justify the reason for it or a couple of very poor attempts to justify it while moaning at people who didn't like it to 'lighten up'
> 
> pathetic


Oh, by 'this' you meant the banner and not the mobilisation in Croydon.


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## tufty79 (Oct 10, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> do they think people are unsure of the orgs status wrt race? It's not like people don't know is it?



my mum.
i had to explain in the nicest possible way years back


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## love detective (Oct 10, 2013)

jimmer said:


> Oh, by 'this' you meant the banner and not the mobilisation in Croydon.



yes the banner with the big fanny that was taken and displayed in Croydon


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## The39thStep (Oct 11, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Im not a SLAF member, so not going to speak on their behalf, but as often banners, someone arty and who had the time, said they would make a banner, really doubt there was a brain storming session where this was what was decided.
> Live and learn.



As I said lacking a business plan


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## Pickman's model (Oct 11, 2013)

cesare said:


> You'll never make me a trot/ex trot


i'll make you foxtrot


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## Pickman's model (Oct 11, 2013)

Nice one said:


> they're not that new, they've been going since 2008. The chairperson (voted for 4 years running) recently applied to stand for assistant secretary of UAF. From their website they seem to have a well structured and organised group dynamic, which is refreshing to say the least, maybe the reality is a bit different though.


fyi: jan 2012 is nrly 2 yesrs ago, not that recent


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## andysays (Oct 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i'll make you foxtrot



Everyone knows it takes two to tango, so I suspect you'll struggle forcing cesare to foxtrot against her will...


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## Pickman's model (Oct 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> Everyone knows it takes two to tango, so I suspect you'll struggle forcing cesare to foxtrot against her will...


she won't be foxtrotting against her will


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## andysays (Oct 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> she won't be foxtrotting against her will



So has she already accepted your invitation to partner her in the up-coming opening round of _Strictly Come Urban Dancing_?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> So has she already accepted your invitation to partner her in the up-coming opening round of _Strictly Come Urban Dancing_?


she will


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## Citizen66 (Oct 11, 2013)

The picture to me looks like a set of balls underneath the mouth. Bizarre whatever.


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## ddraig (Oct 11, 2013)

no doubt when you see it in link from this post
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/bnp-demo-in-croydon-on-october-5th.315618/#post-12604867


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## andysays (Oct 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> she will



I look forward to someone with Photoshop doing an update of this then:


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## Pickman's model (Oct 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> I look forward to someone with Photoshop doing an update of this then:


be more like this


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## cesare (Oct 12, 2013)




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## D'wards (Oct 14, 2013)

There was a BNP rally outside Lunar House a couple of years ago. I work in the next building over, and me and some colleagues went to have a sniff about, see what was occuring.
Now, i'm a fairly stocky fella with a shaved head (male pattern baldness) and tattoo sleeves.

My colleagues comprised of a blonde permatan white girl, indie skinny white boy, muslim girl in head dress, black girl and iranian lad who clearly looked middle-eastern. We were a regular Benetton advert.

Now despite this, one of the Anti's started on me as we were milling about, accused me of looking at his girlfriend, lol. Ended in a bit of a stand-up row - the fella gave me the right hump. His stereotyping, aggression and poor attitude left everyone in my group with a sour taste regarding the Anti's.

They saw the Anti's in the same light as the BNP prats after that.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 14, 2013)

D'wards said:


> There was a BNP rally outside Lunar House a couple of years ago. I work in the next building over, and me and some colleagues went to have a sniff about, see what was occuring.
> Now, i'm a fairly stocky fella with a shaved head (male pattern baldness) and tattoo sleeves.
> 
> My colleagues comprised of a blonde permatan white girl, indie skinny white boy, muslim girl in head dress, black girl and iranian lad who clearly looked middle-eastern. We were a regular Benetton advert.
> ...



He must have been SWP


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