# iPhone 4S: views, news & general opinions



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

Granted we don't know exactly what's being announced next week but how about a nice new fresh thread to discuss, debate, scrutinise the new iPhone(s) free from the baggage of that mammoth thread no one really can be bothered to read through?

Are you interested in the new iPhone, intending to get one or has the iPhone lost it's pull for you as a smartphone owner?


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## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Are you interested in the new iPhone, intending to get one or has the iPhone lost it's pull for you as a smartphone owner?


No, no and yes.


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## elbows (Sep 30, 2011)

My iPhone 3G is insanely slow and painful, its a wonder I resisted getting a newer model for so long. So even if its only a relatively minor spec bump compared to the 4, I'll likely be getting the new one once stock is widely available.


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## Kanda (Sep 30, 2011)

Will see what it offers. In no rush.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

My 3GS is on its last legs, needing more than one charge to get through the day and doing odd things like shutting down for no reason. I really like the look of the S2 but have bought so many bloody apps on iOS it may not make financial sense to switch...will be interesting to see whether they go for a minor bump or face up to the competition and do something shit hot power wise...


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

New iPhone to come with up to 64 gigs of storage? Yes please! I'm nearly out of space on my 32 gigger at the moment and would love more space.









> Following the news that Apple’s new iPhone N94 device has appeared in the Apple internal inventory system, we are now hearing that this new iPhone will come in three storage capacities. Given that we’ve also heard from manufacturing sources that Apple has at least been prototyping 64GB versions of the new iPhone, we would say it’s fairly likely that Apple’s new iPhone will come in 16GB, 32GB, and 64GB capacities; just like the iPad.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Are you interested in the new iPhone, intending to get one or has the iPhone lost it's pull for you as a smartphone owner?



Interested yes, get one, no as I've just got a new HTC Sensation. In terms of pull, if it still needs iTunes I'll never get one. The day you can use it as a standalone device then I may be tempted to switch.


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## Kanda (Sep 30, 2011)

IOS 5 allows that I think.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Interested yes, get one, no as I've just got a new HTC Sensation. In terms of pull, if it still needs iTunes I'll never get one. The day you can use it as a standalone device then I may be tempted to switch.



That's an interesting one, that day is basically here, iOS5 means no more syncing via wire to iTunes. All your data exists in the cloud man...


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's an interesting one, that day is basically here, iOS5 means no more syncing via wire to iTunes. All your data exists in the cloud man...


So I hear, if it's true an iPad will likely be the first thing to prise my wallet open.


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## Me76 (Sep 30, 2011)

I am interested as I have a 3G and am on PAYG and desperately want a 3GS, or in my dreams a 4.

I am hoping that once the new one is out either the price of the other models will decrease or a couple of my mates who are due upgrades will be looking into selling their old handsets.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

Interested? Yes, if it raises the game again. Not sure how it will do that, though, or if it needs to to be a commercial success. It'll just be the same shit, slightly slicker and faster.

Will I get one? No. I had a 3GS for 18 months and it was great but my needs moved on - bigger screen was required.

Has it lost it's pull? Yeah, I think so. The apps are what make the iPhone great. The hardware is good, but so are rivals. Most useful apps are on Android, it's the novelty ones that it lacks and I don't need to spend all that money to get novelties.


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## Structaural (Sep 30, 2011)

I'll be giving my iphone 4 to Mrs S, she's looking forward to it as her 3G is painful to use.

So I'm probably going to buy the iPhone 5 outright, unlocked if my tax rebate ever arrives. I'm sick of these 2 year ripoff contracts, then I'll just get a SIM only contract.
Though t-mobile nederlands will unlock ANY iPhone on their network, which is nice.
Not interested in Android, too widgety and unituitive, bad battery, loads of useful apps not available, laggy music app response but basically I've spent too much at the Apple app store to switch platforms. Love my iPhone 4, would be happy with it for another year, to be honest, so no rush.
I'm perfectly happy with 16Gb of memory though that might be because I'm a heavy Spotify user.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

Re: Android, the battery depends on the hardware, mine has a 5" screen and still does 2 days after a year of heavy use. The rest is all true, however.


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## Sunray (Sep 30, 2011)

I've bought far too many of the expensive and very useful apps to be bothered to trade down to another platform.  So not buying them again and I like the quality of the hardware Apple make.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I've bought far too many of the expensive and very useful apps to be bothered to trade down to another platform. So not buying them again and I like the quality of the hardware Apple make.



It's the games that are proving a deal breaker for me, the majority of apps I use on iOS are all now available on Android, they may not be quite as polished but the functionality is there. That said I could get an iPad and an Android phone and be sitting pretty.


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## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

Sunray said:


> So not buying them again and I like the quality of the hardware Apple make.


But your current phone has a broken glass back - and I've seen loads of them about, thanks to Apple's style over functionality design decision - and you told me that the call quality was very poor!

As for me, I've got no brand loyalty at all. I'll always get the best phone that's currently available, and I don't give a shit who makes it. That's why in the last 2 years I've had phones running three different platforms and my next one may even make that four platforms!


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## Sunray (Sep 30, 2011)

editor said:


> But your current phone has a *broken glass back* - and I've seen loads of them about, thanks to Apple's style over functionality design decision - and you told me that the call *quality was very poor!*
> 
> As for me, I've got no brand loyalty at all. I'll always get the best phone that's currently available, and I don't give a shit who makes it. That's why in the last 2 years I've had phones running three different platforms and my next one may even make that four platforms!



#1 I did drop it from about 4 feet onto concrete and it landed flat on its back. Cost to replace with an Apple one, 26 quid and required just 2 screws needing undoing. I've dropped it many many times without it breaking, just a bit unlucky this time. I did pay 5 quid from ebay but that was a bit shit. Looked OK, the small text was a little too small, but it had sharp edges and was made from plastic I think.Came with the dismantling kit for an iPhone 4 so I was ok with that.

#2 Thats because it got totally submerged in the pocket of my bag on a very wet cycle home for at least 15 minutes. Kept on working but affected the mic which isn't as good as it was before that moment.

Easily one of the most abused phones I've ever owned and its still going strong apart from the slightly dodgy call quality. I just use my expensive headphones with a mic to sort that.

As far as I am aware the 3G I had is still working.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> My 3GS is on its last legs, needing more than one charge to get through the day and doing odd things like shutting down for no reason.


Take it to the Apple Store and say it's broken. They'll either say "yeah it's the battery you need a new one" or - as they did with me - say "well I don't know what's wrong with it but have a new one anyway, you're not that far out of warranty" (because they may still have 3GSes in stock that clearly nobody is going to buy).


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

Still in warranty? It's over two years old...


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 30, 2011)

Mine wasn't in warranty.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

This thread's got me thinking. I'm really unexcited by phones these days. What new is there to come in the next gen? Nothing. Same shit, same apps, just faster and at a higher res. Meh. 

Tablets are more interesting for gadget geeks. Phones are 2000 and late.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 30, 2011)

Market needs phablets. 

Or phoblets, maybe.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

Indeed. My phone, Dell Streak, could be considered a phablet.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 30, 2011)

Phone hardware has _always_ been boring though. It's only when it noticeably changes the experience of using the phone that it's at all interesting - camera, colour screen, GPS, proper web browser and so on - and none of that's happening at the moment, developments are in the software and more importantly the overall experience.

Just tweaking the same hardware so that it's 20g lighter or has a couple of hours more battery life or the camera's got a few more MP or the screen's slightly bigger doesn't cut it. This is what the standard phone manufacturers have never understood and apparently still don't. I thought the iPhone would shake them up but it's still not done it - all that's happened is that they now rely on Android to make their phones interesting.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm not even sure what the next gen could do. Even from an app perspective.


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## spanglechick (Sep 30, 2011)

i have a 3g and when the next one comes out and the 4 gets cheaper i will replace it with a 4.


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## editor (Oct 1, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> i have a 3g and when the next one comes out and the 4 gets cheaper i will replace it with a 4.


Probably the best strategy - they're going to come right down in price very soon, especially if you don't mind buying second hand.

I do wonder where Apple (or anyone else) can go now to really impress punters. My Samsung phone is so thin and light I bought a case for the first time ever because I couldn't feel the thing in my pocket. The only thing that would probably make me think about upgrading would be a truly massive battery life and some sort of flexible, fold out screen.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> i have a 3g and when the next one comes out and the 4 gets cheaper i will replace it with a 4.



Yup I know one or two people thinking the same. iOS 5 will prove a big improvement on iOS 4 so that hardware won't be as significant.


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## Sunray (Oct 1, 2011)

I've said for some time now that phone hardware has reached a zenith and that its all about the software and services.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2011)

Anyway...back on with the thread. Apparently the iPhone 5 appeared by accident on a website today:







Hmmm that looks like a retail speculation, can't see there being a 4G iPhone this year...


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## editor (Oct 1, 2011)

Here's another bit of speculation:







> If this screenshot, apparently culled from Radio Shack's inventory system, is any indication, Sprint will indeed be among the carriers offering the iPhone 5. That lines up just right with previous reports from _Bloomberg_ and the _Wall Street Journal_, slating the phone to hit the Now Network in mid-October.


http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/01/radio-shack-inventory-screen-pegs-iphone-5-for-sprint/


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2011)

Looks a bit more credible...


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 2, 2011)

Do any other gadget geeks ever think, really, why the fuck do I care? Especially you two. Do you acknowledge it's not about the gadget, but more about the argument, these days?


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## paolo (Oct 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Take it to the Apple Store and say it's broken. They'll either say "yeah it's the battery you need a new one" or - as they did with me - say "well I don't know what's wrong with it but have a new one anyway, you're not that far out of warranty" (because they may still have 3GSes in stock that clearly nobody is going to buy).



A few years ago I got cracked glass on a first gen.

I fully expected to have to pay for the repair. That's how it works, right?

No, two days later I recieved a brand new boxed minty fresh phone. Didn't pay a penny and there was no debate. If only my other consumer electronics had that kind of 'warranty'.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 2, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> A few years ago I got cracked glass on a first gen.
> 
> I fully expected to have to pay for the repair. That's how it works, right?
> 
> No, two days later I recieved a brand new boxed minty fresh phone. Didn't pay a penny and there was no debate. If only my other consumer electronics had that kind of 'warranty'.


I got a brand new iPad for a scratch on the screen!


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Do any other gadget geeks ever think, really, why the fuck do I care? Especially you two. Do you acknowledge it's not about the gadget, but more about the argument, these days?



It's totally about the gadget! The 'argument' is basically redundant when it comes to geekery tbh hence it lack of value.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2011)

Is this the iPhone 4S, Gizmodo Brazil claims it is:


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 2, 2011)

Is it just me, or does it look bigger?


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Is it just me, or does it look bigger?



It might just be a close up shot but yeah I had the same first impression too.


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## Bungle73 (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm not sure how you can tell if it's bigger or not since there's nothing to compare it with.


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## kazza007 (Oct 2, 2011)

I can't really see anything under the flash and cellophane


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## mrs quoad (Oct 2, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is this the iPhone 4S, Gizmodo Brazil claims it is:


If it was, then what?


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## paolo (Oct 2, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> I'm not sure how you can tell if it's bigger or not since there's nothing to compare it with.





We have briefly entered the Father Ted "small cows" routine.


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## editor (Oct 2, 2011)

If it hasn't got NFC then that's going to be a bit of a disappointment.


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 2, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> I'm not sure how you can tell if it's bigger or not since there's nothing to compare it with.



Proportions.


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## editor (Oct 2, 2011)

Seeing as the nearest comparable smartphone to the iPhone is the S2 (and that's been outselling it for months and months) I wouldn't be surprised if the iPhone 5 followed suit with a bigger screen of its own.

It's clear that an awful lot of punters like the bigger screens now.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2011)

editor said:


> If it hasn't got NFC then that's going to be a bit of a disappointment.



I think you're right, it'd be a real disappointment. Reckon they'll struggle to sell millions without NFC built in this time round given how crucial it is to the average smartphone users experience.


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## cliche guevara (Oct 2, 2011)

NFC is up and coming tech which is expected to take off in the next few years. It's not crucial at all at the minute, but could be in the very near future.


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## editor (Oct 2, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> NFC is up and coming tech which is expected to take off in the next few years. It's not crucial at all at the minute, but could be in the very near future.


Indeed. If I was buying an expensive phone now, it would definitely be a consideration.


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## Sunray (Oct 2, 2011)

NFC, totally irrelevant until there is infrastructure installed and people support it.
This will take longer than a single mobile generation.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2011)

Yup hence my sarcasm. The notion that the new iPhone not having it will be disappointing is simply stupid.


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## editor (Oct 2, 2011)

It's going to take a couple of years before it becomes commonplace with consumers, but it's already well on its way.


> MOBILE OPERATOR Everything Everywhere is doing a big push on Near Field Communications (NFC) devices, aiming to get most of its customers onto the mobile payments service by 2012...
> 
> Rees said, "For mobile payments to become the norm is not far off. First we will have cards and phones operating side by side. First we will be getting the devices out, then we will work on consumer awareness."
> 
> ...


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## editor (Oct 3, 2011)

Quite a few tech sites are speculating that the iPhone 5 will come with NFC.



> iPhone 5 To Have NFC, Among Other Things
> 
> But one of the most significant, yet unknown features will be the NFC (Not the National Football Conference), NFC stands for Near Field Communications. This technology will initially and most significantly be used as an alternative payment method to credit cards. But there are other uses that would make this a definite technology to look out for in the next few years. Here's a list of possible uses:
> 
> ...





> iPhone 5 “just weeks away” complete with NFC
> 
> Finally, the NFC payment rumors have reignited, with Bits insisting that the new handset will include a Qualcomm chip supporting wireless payments. It’s not clear whether this is functionality that will be enabled at launch or is merely waiting for a mobile payments upgrade in the pipeline, though Apple is always keen to talk about how many iTunes users have trusted it with their credit card details.
> http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-5-just-weeks-away-complete-with-nfc-16180366/


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2011)

From reading the comments on various Apple news/blog sites most people want a redesign along with the spec bump than anything else. Reckon if Apple release the iPhone 4 again with a bump in specs that will be a bigger disappointment...


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## cliche guevara (Oct 3, 2011)

I don't understand the need for a redesign. The iPhone 4 is a great bit of design, miles ahead of the ugly 3gs. The only reason I can think of is that people want to be seen to have the latest model.


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## Kanda (Oct 3, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> I don't understand the need for a redesign. The iPhone 4 is a great bit of design, miles ahead of the ugly 3gs. The only reason I can think of is that people want to be seen to have the latest model.



They're competing with other manufacturers?


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> I don't understand the need for a redesign. The iPhone 4 is a great bit of design, miles ahead of the ugly 3gs. The only reason I can think of is that people want to be seen to have the latest model.



People like things to look different. Tbh I'm surprised they never realised other colours like they did with the nano. I know more than one type who'd love a pink iPhone 4...


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2011)

Bloody hell!



> _The Wall Street Journal_ reports the Sprint is preparing to "bet the company" on the iPhone, agreeing to purchase 30.5 million units over the next four years regardless of whether they are purchased by customers or not. At a current average selling price of $655 for the iPhone, the agreement is a nearly $20 billion commitment for Sprint.
> 
> *Mr. Hesse told the board the carrier would have to agree to purchase at least 30.5 million iPhones over the next four years—a commitment of $20 billion at current rates—whether or not it could find people to buy them, according to people familiar with the matter. In order to keep the price people pay for the phone low and competitive with rivals, Sprint would be subsidizing the cost of each phone to the tune of about $500, which would take a long time to recoup even at the high monthly fees iPhone users pay.*​
> With a source calling the projected hit to Sprint's operating income "staggering", the company's directors agreed to the deal as an all-in gamble to give Sprint hopes of competing against AT&T and Verizon.


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## Sunray (Oct 3, 2011)

Hmm, not sure about that.  There are only about 128 million units out there, that would represent nearly 25% of total worldwide sales to date.

Clearly its changed massively over the last 4 years. So committing to that would be a version of commercial insanity.


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## maximilian ping (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm on iphone/O2 and contract runs out tomorrow, what shall i do? Do i go for brand new iphone, do i go for total change eg Samsung/Android?


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> I'm on iphone/O2 and contract runs out tomorrow, what shall i do? Do i go for brand new iphone, do i go for total change eg Samsung/Android?


 Personally, I'd wait to see if the new iPhone CHANGES EVERYTHING AGAIN and make my decision then. That said, I'm delighted with my S2.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> I'm on iphone/O2 and contract runs out tomorrow, what shall i do? Do i go for brand new iphone, do i go for total change eg Samsung/Android?


Wait to see what the 5 looks like and then decide. It's not long! (There's also no tearing hurry, it's not like upgrades run out.)


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## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

Wait another week to see what's announced at the Google/Samsung conference next Tuesday, should be the new Nexus phone with Ice Cream Sandwich. 

These will be the two biggest mobile phone related stories of this year.


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## maximilian ping (Oct 4, 2011)

thanks chaps. am slightly hurried because i have no phone at the moment (some may recall my post about smashing my iphone on another thread), but can wait a week.

it's certainly strange not having a smart phone to fiddle about with every 5 seconds. i also gave up smoking on Thursday. I've not a clue what to do with myself


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## gabi (Oct 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Wait to see what the 5 looks like and then decide. It's not long! (There's also no tearing hurry, it's not like upgrades run out.)



5's not coming out today. this is just the 4S


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> 5's not coming out today. this is just the 4S


Don't say that!!!

*cue ten thousand fanboys wailing into their iHankies


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## gabi (Oct 4, 2011)

Clues are all there, no live video feed, very low key buildup, no employees leaving prototypes in bars.. this'll be the 4S.


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> Clues are all there, no live video feed, very low key buildup, no employees leaving prototypes in bars.. this'll be the 4S.


But what.. what will that change?


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## maldwyn (Oct 4, 2011)

Tim has got to have more tricks in his bag than presenting a 4s, poor bloke.


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## maximilian ping (Oct 4, 2011)

It will be 4S, that's what lady in O2 shop told me at weekend and I believed her. But even so, for me, if I am going to get a new iphone (my old one is 3S), jump to 4S is probably worthwhile (unless they are going to rip me off). But I will check out Galaxy/Android combo in case i like it. No reason to stick with Apple just cos i have a MB Pro at home


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> Tim has got to have more tricks in his bag than presenting a 4s, poor bloke.


He has! Voice control! That's going to do more than just change everything - it's change the whole blinkin' *world* according to the bloke who started the company!


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## gabi (Oct 4, 2011)

I'd go for a 4S if they price it reasonably.

never been able to justify paying £400 or whatever the fuck Steve Jobs flogs his things for


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## maximilian ping (Oct 4, 2011)

Voice control is a great idea for people who are paralyzed from neck down, but for me its negligable


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## Kanda (Oct 4, 2011)

Fuck me. Relentless....


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## maldwyn (Oct 4, 2011)

Rumour has it it's going to be the HAL300 of voice control.

Anyway, I'll be following events via the TWiT podcast at 6pm


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## Kanda (Oct 4, 2011)

Ed - You're actually embarrassing yourself this time round. There.. I said it. 

You're obsessed!


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Ed - You're actually embarrassing yourself this time round. There.. I said it.
> 
> You're obsessed!


Stop trolling please.


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## Kanda (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm not the one trolling. Get a grip.


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I'm not trolling. Get a grip.


Please stop.


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## Kanda (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> Please stop.



Stop what? I am not trolling. Stop criticising your behaviour on these threads?


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## gabi (Oct 4, 2011)

Ahh.. an apple launch wouldn't be the same without a Kanda/Editor spat


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> Ahh.. an apple launch wouldn't be the same without a Kanda/Editor spat


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## Kanda (Oct 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> Ahh.. an apple launch wouldn't be the same without a Kanda/Editor spat



I don't really give a toss about the launch. Yeah, I bought a load of Apple stuff 2 years ago when I bought my house, TV, Laptop, iMac... partly due to it's ease of bolting it all together, partly cos I work with PC's all day and my Mrs preferred the design. I kitted my house out... 2YEARS ago... and Ed brands me a Fanboi.. and won't let it go.

The frenzy he seems to be getting into this time though? Just saying it's all a bit nuts. Go find me arguing the case for Apple recently... go on... I don't think you'll come up with anything since the iPad launch (the original one)


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## ExtraRefined (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> Stop trolling please.



That's not trolling. This is trolling;

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/04/why_not_buy_an_iphone_5/


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> That's not trolling. This is trolling;
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/04/why_not_buy_an_iphone_5/


That's not trolling. In fact, it's very funny with some sound points.



> Stephen Fry Likes It
> Here at the Reg we venerate Stephen Fry - as a comedian. His performances in Blackadder, Fry and Laurie, Jeeves and Wooster etc have brought many rays of sunshine into our lives. For these and many other thespian and comedic efforts, Mr Fry has earned his status as an official national treasure.
> 
> As a commentator on the sci/tech/biz scene, unfortunately, he doesn't do so well. In particular his love for Apple and all its works usually appears to go well beyond mere enthusiasm or even passionate romantic love into a place which is, frankly, embarrassing.
> ...





> 10. If You Must Buy One, For Pity's Sake Not Now
> Wait: Wait. Wait some more, until the hypegasm dies down. If you buy an iPhone 5 in the near future you will pay an even more outrageously inflated price than normal for an iPhone and you'll probably be locked into some horrifying multi-year devil's bargain under which the operator has locked out half the thing's capabilities to spare its network and gets to keep your children to boot


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## ExtraRefined (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> In fact, it's very funny with some sound points.



Like all the best trolling.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2011)

Sorry, I read "1. No Rechargeable Battery", "2. No Memory Card Slot" and then there was something about "walled gardens" but I fell asleep at that point. Does it mention Flash later on?


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## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)




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## g force (Oct 4, 2011)

The battery thing is a completely moot point now. Sure it would be nice but it's not essential and it won't stop people buying iphones.


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## gabi (Oct 4, 2011)

a picture which could have been designed specifically to wind editor up


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> Personally, I'd wait to see if the new iPhone CHANGES EVERYTHING AGAIN and make my decision then. That said, I'm delighted with my S2.



Yeah right, you're not going to buy an iPhone for the reasons you've already given, you don't like iTunes, you don't like the AppStore!


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> Ahh.. an apple launch wouldn't be the same without a Kanda/Editor spat



You mean it wouldn't be the same without the Editor trolling his ass off and us sane folk occasionally getting caught up in the bullshit?


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## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

From that figure that the iPhone makes up 5% of the mobile market, I'm expecting a cheaper iPhone 4.


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## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> I'd go for a 4S if they price it reasonably.
> 
> never been able to justify paying £400 or whatever the fuck Steve Jobs flogs his things for


Try £650. £400 would be a low end iPhone, like I'm expecting to be announced any minute.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

The numbers game being played again, total iOS devices outsell total Android devices. No surprise there given the numbers of iPads and Touches sold along side iPhones.


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

I was criticised for my use of capitals elsewhere, so just to even it out: Apple customers have download 18 BILLION APPS -- more than a BILLION per month!


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Cards?


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

Err, greeting cards. Just like loads of apps do already.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Um, cards?!


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## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

"There's notifications, visible from the top by swiping down -- ala Android. "
http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/04/apples-lets-talk-iphone-keynote-liveblog/


----------



## gabi (Oct 4, 2011)

Fucking hell. CARDS!!!!

WOOOHOOO!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

YAY Apple have ripped off Android! Now all the fandroids who complained bitterly that iPhones couldn't do what their phone can now have can u turn and bitch about how Apple ripped the features off!!!


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

I'd love it if this was the main point of todays keynote


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> Fucking hell. CARDS!!!!
> 
> WOOOHOOO!


*high fives back

I'm sure they've got better things up their sleeve to come, but I'm surprised it's even being mentioned at a _keynote_ speech.
There's both iPhone and Android apps that do the same thing - and some are cheaper too.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 4, 2011)

Bet it won't be the same without Jobs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

So....so far it's recap recap recap!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2011)

Fuck Twitter integration. I always said it was a shit idea, and it is still a shit idea.


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Bet it won't be the same without Jobs.



Last time Jobs appeared he rather understandably didn't quite have the same 'stage presence' and energy that used to make some people gush over his performances anyway.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

The new iPhone 4S will be aesthetically identical to the iPhone 4, that's why we haven't seen any leaked images. How long until we see the iPhone 5?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Fuck Twitter integration. I always said it was a shit idea, and it is still a shit idea.



I like it, it's what I'd like to see everywhere. Anyone else bored with this?


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Fuck Twitter integration. I always said it was a shit idea, and it is still a shit idea.


Dead handy on my phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

October 12th for iOS5...


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

Normally I hate recaps but it seems Id forgotten about lots of the stuff thats in iOS 5, like the geo-triggered reminders. And lol at how happy people get about the ability to use the volume buttons to trigger the camera.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2011)

No OS should ever hardcode integration with any specific web service. Full stop. An API hook to let apps connect with apps to post to services, fine, that's great, but OSes should not endorse one service over another.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Apparently there's this new thing called iCloud which people know nothing about having not heard of it before...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No OS should ever hardcode integration with any specific web service. Full stop. An API hook to let apps connect with apps to post to services, fine, that's great, but OSes should not endorse one service over another.



Yeah they should. WebOS does, Android does and now iOS does. It's the future maaaan.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

If they don't announce a true iPhone 5 I reckon some fanbois are gonna off themselves.


----------



## gabi (Oct 4, 2011)

this is the shittest apple keynote ever


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah they should. WebOS does, Android does and now iOS does. It's the future maaaan.


Fuck them all then; it's anti-innovation and reinforces the web's status quo.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

iOS looks very nice, clean, with great integration, but it's hardly revolutionary is it?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> this is the shittest apple keynote ever



It is although with the press attention it's a clever way of making sure their other products get another airing for free...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> iOS looks very nice, clean, with great integration, but it's hardly revolutionary is it?



It's true. Nothing amazing here really.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Apple have ruthlessly ripped off Google Latitude with Find my Friends.


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> this is the shittest apple keynote ever



Come off it, this is far from abnormal so far. There have been loads of keynotes where they start off real slow, repeating stuff thats already known, with people making very similar comments to the one you just made.

If the new iPhone isn't much to write home about then yes, we will be in more unusual territory in terms of keynote letdown.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> iOS looks very nice, clean, with great integration, but it's hardly revolutionary is it?


iCloud is the most important part really but it will depend on the implementation - particularly how it connects with the desktop.

Document sync and transfer is one of the serious sticking points with mobile apps of any power; this is far more important with iPad apps which are likely to want to do more useful things. Up until now there have been fairly half-arsed workarounds IMO, with Dropbox being the best so far, which is all right for me as I use Dropbox a lot, but document sync and transfer is something an OS should take care of itself. Not altogether happy with the cloud aspect being central to it but we'll see with the details.


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

Most of the liveblogs seem to have melted, even worse than normal.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Wait does iCloud launch everywhere October 12th with match coming later or do both launch outside the US later?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm on http://live.thisismynext.com/Event/Apple_iPhone_5_event_live_blog which I'd not heard of before so may stay up.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

thisismynext.com are ex-editors of engadget I believe.


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Wait does iCloud launch everywhere October 12th with match coming later or do both launch outside the US later?



I think its just the iTunes stuff that comes later, no reason to hold back the rest of the iCloud stuff and it would make a mockery of key new features if they did.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Engadget has been down so long they've done an entire section on the nano...


----------



## gabi (Oct 4, 2011)

engadget's fine for me


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2011)

Dude! A Mickey Mouse watch! Yeah!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

They've done the predictable and made the nano a watch. Damn shame they haven't ripped off that cool Sony android thing that allows the nano to connect to your iPhone as a controller/text receiver etc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

And, here we go.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Cheeky swipe at Samsung skanking the iPhone design.


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

Sounds like the 4S rumours were mostly all true.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

Same shape, same case. For most Apple fans, this is not news.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

It's _got_ to get better, surely?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Fanbois can be heard pulling the trigger on their shotguns all over the world.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> It's _got_ to get better, surely?



Doesn't look like it's going to. It's nearly an hour now, unless their one more thing is the iPhone 5 but I doubt it, it's going to be Assistant.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

4G? Well at least that's something.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 4, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 4G? Well at least that's something.



Is it?

Theres no 4G network in the UK that I'm aware of.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)




----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

There's not. Meaning the increased speeds are totally useless to us in the UK. So for brits, what has been announced is an iPhone 4 with a better processor and, er, that's it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Apple stocks taking a dive?

http://www.google.co.uk/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:AAPL


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

When does the innovation bit start up?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)




----------



## paolo (Oct 4, 2011)

A quick google suggests there is 14.4k HSDPA in the UK ??


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

I thought I read somewhere recently that there's a big upgrade to 4G coming in the next year?


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> There's not. Meaning the increased speeds are totally useless to us in the UK. So for brits, what has been announced is an iPhone 4 with a better processor and, er, that's it.



Oh I don't know, the better camera and 1080P video recording floats my boat and makes me glad I waited rather than get the original 4. Plus having seen what the processor is like in the ipad2, I think this is big news, even if it doesn't seem that way due to heightened expectations and much better competition.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2011)

The liveblogs are all falling over


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Why isn't Tim Cook showing off the iPhone 4s? It's meant to be his big day and this is the new iPhone..?


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why isn't Tim Cook showing off the iPhone 4s? It's meant to be his big day and this is the new iPhone..?


Maybe he's a bit embarrassed.


----------



## strung out (Oct 4, 2011)

having played with both an iphone4 and an htc sensation, i can't see anything exciting in these announcements at all. the all round user experience of the sensation (and i expect, the galaxy s2) is so far ahead of the iphone, that beefing up the processor and camera a bit barely even scratches the advantage that the others held over it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> Maybe he's a bit embarrassed.



LOL that'd be a gutsy way to do his first proper keynote as CEO!


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

Oh blimey...

He just asked "Do I need a raincoat today?" and Siri said "It sure does look like rain today!" and brought up the weather app.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

That voice thing looks perfectly horrid.


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> That voice thing looks perfectly horrid.



Id be excited if it was more like this:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

This is really boring.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2011)

Fuck it, I'm going out.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

If this is all they've got, no wonder they're trying to block the Android phones.


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

If it actually works then combined with the cloud there is still a fair chance it will go down a storm and to a certain extent change the world, even if it bores the tits off geeks.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

Apparently that voice thing is "the coolest feature of the new iPhone 4S"


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

Am I right in thinking it needs a connection to work for any of its functions?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

And the obligatory video...


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2011)

Oh you don't just want innovation then, it has to be cool innovation. Well, whats your vision? Apple have got one, no idea if it will work but they are treading a path that isn't only about spec, and as many of us have commented the options to genuinely innovate seem rather limited these days.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)




----------



## Sunray (Oct 4, 2011)

The 1080p with the anti-shake is the best feature.  The 4 has this very distinct wobble that makes it hard to watch for very long.

I'm not sure what people were expecting?  Hardware on all phones reached a zenith some time ago and this has proved that statement.

The cloud stuff is where its going.  I wonder when Apple will include Ultraviolet compatibility.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm not really that bothered about getting the latest upgrade, that's a first for me.


----------



## fen_boy (Oct 4, 2011)

Meh


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Sunray said:


> The 1080p with the anti-shake is the best feature. The 4 has this very distinct wobble that makes it hard to watch for very long.
> 
> I'm not sure what people were expecting? Hardware on all phones reached a zenith some time ago and this has proved that statement.
> 
> The cloud stuff is where its going. I wonder when Apple will include Ultraviolet compatibility.



Bigger screen, slimmer form factor would have been nice too.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2011)

Im more interested in the icloud, itunes match, and ios 5 than anything else.

Oh and osx lion, but i still havent upgraded.


----------



## paolo (Oct 4, 2011)

Bigger storage
Faster processor
Increased battery life
Better camera.
Dual mode (GSM/CDMA)
14.4mbit HSDPA

I'm trying to think what's left to add in terms of hardware?


----------



## strung out (Oct 4, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Bigger storage
> Faster processor
> Increased battery life
> Better camera.
> ...


bigger screen. i hate the small screen of the iphone 4


----------



## paolo (Oct 4, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Bigger screen, slimmer form factor would have been nice too.



Bigger screen doesn't make sense.

To keep the essential pixel dimensions, it would be the same level of detail, just bulkier.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2011)

oh i guess the 64gb model is quite a nice addition.....

Its safe to say I wont be considering early upgrade fees etc, I might consider a white one when my contract runs out in dec though.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 4, 2011)

Doubled the min storage
Doubled the processor speed



Doubled the price too though.


----------



## strung out (Oct 4, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Bigger screen doesn't make sense.
> 
> To keep the essential pixel dimensions, it would be the same level of detail, just bulkier.


having used the sensation and s2, i much prefer the bigger screens on them


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

Weird the Apple store was there and now it's saying access denied...


----------



## Structaural (Oct 4, 2011)

http://www.theonion.com/articles/apple-new-iphone-good,26257/


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 4, 2011)




----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

You'd have to keep the phone on for the thing to work no? Or does it have a Samsung style trigger word?
Either way, I'm still mightily underwhelmed by the whole concept, whatever platform it's running on. When the bloke asks about traffic, he stills end up having to look at the screen to make sense of the answer.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2011)

That's a pretty mad video, very clever to use the blind person too. Gives you a real hint of the many ways it can be used. Still...they didn't make a big deal about this as the key new feature to raise the 4S above the rather meh keynote...


----------



## mauvais (Oct 4, 2011)

Good news if you want to upgrade from your iPhone 4 - currently only £33 here.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

mauvais said:


> Good news if you want to upgrade from your iPhone 4 - currently only £33 here.


The UK Deed Poll service are selling iPhones?


----------



## Mapped (Oct 4, 2011)

I think I can put away my Galaxy's box now, no need to return it going on everything I've read.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 4, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15175034
Tim Cook's dull debut


----------



## mauvais (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> The UK Deed Poll service are selling iPhones?


Oh, sorry. Let me try that again.

Good news if you want to upgrade from your iPhone 4 - currently only £33 here. S!


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

N1 Buoy said:


> I think I can put away my Galaxy's box now, no need to return it going on everything I've read.


I'd say that the S2 represents a better deal all round, really.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

mauvais said:


> Oh, sorry. Let me try that again.
> 
> Good news if you want to upgrade from your iPhone 4 - currently only £33 here. S!


That also goes to the UK Deed Poll Service. Oh hang on, is this a _joke?_


----------



## mauvais (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> That also goes to the UK Deed Poll Service.


Yeah, but it does it quicker.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

*baffled


----------



## Mapped (Oct 4, 2011)

editor said:


> I'd say that the S2 represents a better deal all round, really.



It definitely does, I'm saving £10 a month on my old iPhone tariff and getting sky sports mobile chucked in. It's a good piece of hardware too, I'm really impressed with the screen and the speed.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2011)

Interesting piece in the Guardian:



> The iPhone 4S: Apple grows its walled garden
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/04/iphone-apple-launch


----------



## pinkychukkles (Oct 4, 2011)

So will Siri only run on the 4S? I'm guessing it's because of the extra processor demands?

ah, from lifehacker:


> Siri is a feature of the iPhone 4S, so unfortunately it won't come as part of a free update. Whether it requires the A5 processor or Apple just wants another reason to get you to upgrade is unknown, but either way current iPhone users are out of luck. Hopefully we'll see Siri come to other iDevices in the future.


----------



## fieryjack (Oct 5, 2011)

pinkychukkles said:


> So will Siri only run on the 4S? I'm guessing it's because of the extra processor demands?


apologies for the length, cut'n'pasted from a Register post (also, fuck Apple):



			
				Andy Baird said:
			
		

> It runs on an iPhone 4 right now. An earlier version of Siri has been available in the App Store for well over a year. I have it on my iPhone 4, and it works fine. I just gave it the same task Tim Cook used in his demo today, saying "Find me a Greek restaurant near here." It came up with a dozen, listing them in order of closeness, then mapped their locations and offered to call any one of them for me.
> Siri is currently missing from the App Store, and when I launched my older copy today, it said "I've been replaced! The new Siri is even smarter and better looking than me, and waiting for you on the iPhone 4S. I'll be leaving for home Oct. 15th." I don't know what that last sentence means--this version will stop working? The new version will appear in the App Store? We'll have to wait and see.
> Granted, it's *possible* that Apple will forbid the new Siri from running on older phones, but I'd be surprised if they did, since the old version has been doing just that for more than a year. In case it wasn't obvious, Siri's intelligence is all at the server end, not on your phone. Like Dragon Dictation for iOS, the Siri app just records your voice and passes it on; all the heavy lifting is done elsewhere. That means Siri doesn't need a lot of horsepower in the phone.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Bigger screen, slimmer form factor would have been nice too.


Slimmer? It's already the slimmest smartphone on the market!


----------



## RaverDrew (Oct 5, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Slimmer? It's already the slimmest smartphone on the market!



It's not slimmer than the S2


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 5, 2011)

Yes it is. At it's thickest point, the SGSII is 9.91mm, and the iPhone 4 is 9.3mm. The majority of the SGSII is only 8.71mm thick, but only one of those phones is sliding through a 9.4mm gap.


----------



## RaverDrew (Oct 5, 2011)

Apologies, just checked and you're right.

Weird, cos the S2 seems like a much slimmer handset than the iphone4


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Slimmer? It's already the slimmest smartphone on the market!



Yup. Ideally as slim as the touch.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Yes it is. At it's thickest point, the SGSII is 9.91mm, and the iPhone 4 is 9.3mm. The majority of the SGSII is only 8.71mm thick, but only one of those phones is sliding through a 9.4mm gap.



Yup Samsung got a smack on the hands a little while ago for falsely claiming it was the worlds slimmest phone.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup Samsung got a smack on the hands a little while ago for falsely claiming it was the worlds slimmest phone.


For 95% of it they'd be correct. That damn camera! But you can only judge slimness by the thickest point.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

It's a lot lighter than the iPhone though. I don't want my phone to be any thinner than it already is. In fact, it's already too thin.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

The prices are pretty steep for the new 4S: they start at half a grand for the 16GB version. Ouch!

*update to add: so almost all of those 'exclusive's and leaks about the (ahem) iPhone5 proved to be total tosh again. Surely punters will get the picture soon?


----------



## Gromit (Oct 5, 2011)

editor said:


> The prices are pretty steep for the new 4S: they start at half a grand for the 16GB version. Ouch!
> 
> *update to add: so almost all of those 'exclusive's and leaks about the (ahem) iPhone5 proved to be total tosh again. Surely punters will get the picture soon?



Unlocked? If so thats about norm isn't it?

If not then thats silly money.


----------



## strung out (Oct 5, 2011)

£500 is a shit load when it's main competitors are knocking out better phones for £400 though


----------



## Cid (Oct 5, 2011)

editor said:


> The prices are pretty steep for the new 4S: they start at half a grand for the 16GB version. Ouch!
> 
> *update to add: so almost all of those 'exclusive's and leaks about the (ahem) iPhone5 proved to be total tosh again. Surely punters will get the picture soon?



But ed, you could have an 8gb iPhone 4 for only £429... How can you complain?


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Unlocked? If so thats about norm isn't it?
> 
> If not then thats silly money.


You can pick up the arguably superior Samsung Galaxy S2 for a £100 less.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 5, 2011)

editor said:


> ...about the (ahem) iPhone5 proved to be total tosh again. Surely punters will get the picture soon?



Apple rarely retool on a yearly basis. We'll see the iPhone 5 next year I reckon. I'll be sticking with my 4.

I was surprised that Apple didn't release a new App though, like a iPhone version of Garageband or something. I suppose this talking/listening app is it. I'm only interested in that as a Universal Translator


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

The 4S is still an excellent phone with the slickest OS in town, but seeing as it's struggling to keep up with devices half a year old, it does feel like a big disappointment. Online, there's loads of iPhone 4 users saying it's not worth the upgrade, even through their phone is well over a year old now.

With the 4S phone lacking the "wow" factor that's traditionally come with new iPhone releases, I suspect quite a few users may be swayed by the bigger screens, different form factors and keener prices of similar Android phones.


----------



## gabi (Oct 5, 2011)

So basically, that slightly bizarre greeting card thing was actually the highlight of yesterdays show.

im assuming apple's stock fell subsequently.. totally underwhelming.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

The greeting card thing was weird. I can do exactly the same on my phone for less and have been able to do so for ages. I don't understand why Apple thought it was even worth mentioning.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

So Apple may be reaping what they sowed in this fucking ridiculous patent bullshit that is ultimately bad news for all consumers: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/370333/samsung-seeks-sales-blocks-on-iphone-4s

pple
Smsung


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Interesting piece:



> iPhone 4S and iCloud: what the analysts say
> Apple launch could be big opportunity for Samsung and other rivals, while some experts think it could mean midrange fight
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/oct/05/iphone-4s-icloud-analysts





> CK Lu, Gartner, on the iPhone 4S
> "Apple no longer has a leading edge – its cloud service is even behind (Google's mobile operating system) Android; it can only sell on brand loyalty now. Users may wait to buy the next iPhone; if they can't wait, they may shift to brands with more advanced specifications."


----------



## Cid (Oct 5, 2011)

editor said:


> The 4S is still an excellent phone with the slickest OS in town, but seeing as it's struggling to keep up with devices half a year old, it does feel like a big disappointment. Online, there's loads of iPhone 4 users saying it's not worth the upgrade, even through their phone is well over a year old now.
> 
> With the 4S phone lacking the "wow" factor that's traditionally come with new iPhone releases, I suspect quite a few users may be swayed by the bigger screens, different form factors and keener prices of similar Android phones.



The iPhone 4 was a major 'wow' release, so it shouldn't really be surprising that this is more of an upgrade than a total redesign.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Cid said:


> The iPhone 4 was a major 'wow' release, so it shouldn't really be surprising that this is more of an upgrade than a total redesign.


But that was *15* months ago.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2011)

editor said:


> But that was *15* months ago.


Only 3 months more than the usual gap between models. Will be interesting to see if no.5 comes October next year or June/July to get "back on track" as it were.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Only 3 months more than the usual gap between models. Will be interesting to see if no.5 comes October next year or June/July to get "back on track" as it were.


Sure, but there's been an awful lot of progress in those 15 months - the rise of big screens for one - and I think that people expected more from a company that has led the pack for so long.

The phone will still sell by the bucketload of course, but I expect that Apple may well lose more than a few customers to Android.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2011)

I suspect so too. I think we're starting to see Apple's user-friendly smartphones head start run out.
However, brand loyalty and app store lock-in should help them retain most of their existing customers.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 5, 2011)

The anti shake video, not having to replace all my apps and slick cloud based system keep me as a customer. Not sure if I get this revision or wait for 5 though. Will think about it in Jan when the contract runs out, probably will as my existing one has been smashed about quite a lot.

Gonna buy off the Apple store, rather than go through an operator this time. Get better deals sim only.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I suspect so too. I think we're starting to see Apple's user-friendly smartphones head start run out.
> However, brand loyalty and app store lock-in should help them retain most of their existing customers.


Looking at the forums, there seems to be a lot of iPhone 4 users heading towards the end of their contracts who were _busting_ to get a new iPhone. It seems that some are choosing to hang on to what they've got, while quite a few seem to be considering a shift elsewhere.

If the Nexus Prime delivers on its promise, that could have a real impact.


----------



## fen_boy (Oct 5, 2011)

I've got an iphone 4. I won't be getting a 4s. It's not enough of an upgrade for me to consider. I've just switched to a rolling 1 month SIM only contract for £15 less than I was paying, I'll stick with that until the iphone 5 probably. I'd really struggle to leave all my apps behind and switch to Android. It'd have to be a pretty amazing Android phone for me to even consider it.


----------



## Will2403 (Oct 5, 2011)

just saw the 4S video. looks pretty damn good. sucks being skint. i'll wait and save some pennies for the 64gb iphone 5 

my 3 year old 3gs is still working well so i'm in no rush


----------



## pianissimo (Oct 5, 2011)

The Cards app is totally a rip off from Postcard on the Run:

IP infringement anyone?


----------



## g force (Oct 5, 2011)

I suspect Apple may be ensuring NFC is working perfectly and getting people to beta apps for it (I know one UK bank that already is) before the 5 hits the shelves.


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> The Cards app is totally a rip off from Postcard on the Run:
> IP infringement anyone?



They are trying to be positive about it.

http://www.postcardontherun.com/node/24



> The  new iPhone 4S with all of its new iOS upgrades and added features was significant while their announcement of *CARDS* was for us here at POTR…momentous. It is a huge validation for developers in the photo app space to continue to push forward in launching tools that make the photo taking and sharing experience more personal and memorable.


----------



## pianissimo (Oct 5, 2011)

elbows said:


> They are trying to be positive about it.
> 
> http://www.postcardontherun.com/node/24


Sucks. Where's the innovation?
Really not liking how they're putting smaller business down.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 5, 2011)

I've got a 4 & am considering buying a 4S off the shelf from Apple & selling the 4. It's mainly the camera that does it for me. I take a LOT of photo's & videos of my 2year old on my phone. On my penultimate upgrade I stuck with Nokia, rather than going for an iPhone, purely on the camera.

I'd noticed the tariffs have increased recently on Pay Monthly, so wasn't looking for another 2 year contract when my upgrade is due in July. 

As a family we've heavily invested in the apps, with great success. We even got our 2yr old her own iPod recently, it's got loads of her apps, books & TV Programmes on it. We're not going over to android or windows anytime soon.  

I figure the sooner I sell my 4, the more money I'll get for it.

I'll be interested to see the pricing.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 5, 2011)

2 year olds with iPods. Whatever next!


----------



## Kanda (Oct 5, 2011)

gabi said:


> im assuming apple's stock fell subsequently.. totally underwhelming.



Down 0.6% by close. It dipped down 4% at one point.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

DIMPLES1 said:


> As a family we've heavily invested in the apps, with great success. We even got our 2yr old her own iPod recently, it's got loads of her apps, books & TV Programmes on it. We're not going over to android or windows anytime soon.


You're what's known as a 'locked in' customer and Apple loves you!
Or rather, your money. 

Out of curiousity, when you say you've "heavily invested" in apps, how much have you actually paid between the two of you?


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

This troll-tastic article's as shit as you might expect, but I do like this user comment:

Apple’s fall from grace


> I'm shocked to see this article talking in a negative light about Apple. Then follow up by riding their nuts to secure that blogger paycheck.


----------



## fen_boy (Oct 5, 2011)

I just worked out how much I've spent on apps and in-app purchases in the last 16 months and it's £182.19. The lion's share of that is Copilot Sat Nav and Ordnance Survey maps.


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2011)

Hmmm. Given that I don't have bundles of cash right now, would quite like a larger screen, and probably need to own at least one Android device for development purposes, I am considering not upgrading my tired old iPhone 3G to the 4S, and getting a Samsung instead. Especially as I have an iPad so I won't be throwing away my previous investment in iOS apps. The only thing making me think twice about this is that it would be nice to use a cloud thats well integrated with both my phone and iPad, and I also need a more modern small iOS device for future development at some point.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 5, 2011)

editor said:


> You're what's known as a 'locked in' customer and Apple loves you!
> Or rather, your money.
> 
> Out of curiousity, when you say you've "heavily invested" in apps, how much have you actually paid between the two of you?




I've no idea. I'd have to have a tally.  Apart from my moan about safari on the iPad thread & eBay iPhone app leading me to pay more for an auction, we've not had any issues with what we have bought. Oh, apart from monopoly. We use the majority of the apps loads. Hence our decision to get more Apple kit, & 'get locked in'. It was a conscious, thought out decision. Our purchases are now divided between 4 devices. 

There was only one book R would sit & have read to her. Interactive books = fucking genius. No flaps, tabs or pages to rip & tear. Much harder to skip pages. She can have them read out to her by the device, or we can read to her. The premium price ones like Dr Seuss are about a fiver, a lot are 69p to a £1.

MrD has bought more games, though we did make good use of that EA sale the other week & I've bought quite a few of the recipe apps / packs. Following a recipe from an iPhone is really easy.

Apart from Nintendo magazine, we haven't bought any in ages. I'd say we app buy, & device read rather spend money in that way.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 5, 2011)

I also meant heavily invested in Apple products too, as well as apps. When the flat sold a few months ago & my old laptop was on deaths door we choose to get a Mac Mini, ipad 2 & an iPod the little one. It was a decision we'd spent months, (waiting for the sale of the flat), considering. We figured it was best for us as a family.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

elbows said:


> The only thing making me think twice about this is that it would be nice to use a cloud thats well integrated with both my phone and iPad, and I also need a more modern small iOS device for future development at some point.


I reckon the Nexus Prime will be a great phone to get for dev as it's going to be pretty much state of the art as far as Google-ness is concerned.

There's loads of cloud based services you can use (like DropBox) to keep everything synced.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2011)

Out of interest, sparrow and I have spent £84 between us in itunes store over the last 12 months. this includes a few music purchases and movie rentals.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2011)

I've heavily invested in iOS apps, to the tune of a couple of hundred quid I imagine (and that's excluding things like comics - though my total is biased upwards by the fact that I buy premium professional apps like Omnigraffle and Things, whereas most of them are a couple of quid). I've also invested far more heavily in platform-specific desktop apps, which are often a lot more expensive, and are more likely to use their own file formats and not be terribly portable.

I'm not locked into the desktop any more than I am locked into iOS; I don't buy software which can't export to other formats and which I can't use with other software if I want to, if I care about what I do with those apps. Obviously I would rather not buy everything all over again on another platform, but if I wanted to, I could, if appropriate software was available on a new platform at all.

The idea that the fact that buying software for a specific platform is "lock-in" is a distortion of what the term means - it means you can't take your data away with you if you decide to switch. I buy loads of software because I want good software and you frequently have to pay for that. The fact that I have paid for copies of BBEdit or Omnioutliner doesn't mean that I can't edit the same code or outlines somewhere else.


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2011)

editor said:


> I reckon the Nexus Prime will be a great phone to get for dev as it's going to be pretty much state of the art as far as Google-ness is concerned.



Yes, I shall wait and see what next weeks announcement is like before making a final decision.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 5, 2011)

Ive easily spent about £100 over the years on apps, but ive definately had my moneys worth from the satnav alone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> For 95% of it they'd be correct. That damn camera! But you can only judge slimness by the thickest point.



Well it's a correct judgment, you can't allow a company to advertise a phone being slim based on it's slimmest point as things would get silly very quickly!

As per usual the Ed has conveniently left out the salient details to make a big splash; those prices aren't contract, they're unlocked. There's no way they'd have a 16 iPhone for a 100 quid or so on a contract then release the next one as 500 on contract!

Anyway, any *actual* news on contract prices?


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> As per usual the Ed has conveniently left out the salient details to make a big splash; those prices aren't contract, they're unlocked.


That's because *they haven't been announced yet*, you div.

I posted up the only prices currently available, so I haven't "conveniently" left anything out.


----------



## strung out (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> As per usual the Ed has conveniently left out the salient details to make a big splash; those prices aren't contract, they're unlocked. There's no way they'd have a 16 iPhone for a 100 quid or so on a contract then release the next one as 500 on contract!


desperate stuff KE.

the sim-free price is often the price discussed on new releases because that's the price the manufacturer sells them at. like editor says, it's still too early for contract prices, and given that each network tends to have special offers, different pricing points/tariffs and subsidises the handsets to a bigger or smaller extent, it's not a particularly fair comparison to make.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> desperate stuff KE.
> 
> the sim-free price is often the price discussed on new releases because that's the price the manufacturer sells them at. like editor says, it's still too early for contract prices, and given that each network tends to have special offers, different pricing points/tariffs and subsidises the handsets to a bigger or smaller extent, it's not a particularly fair comparison to make.



Hardly, there was no caveat in the opinion, I'd said the price is too high to buy unlocked but honestly most people won't be buying it like that so the price isn't really a big factor in this sense.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2011)

The sim free price is not particularly relevant to anything given that few people buy phones outside of contracts. So basically we don't know any prices.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The sim free price is not particularly relevant to anything given that few people buy phones outside of contracts. So basically we don't know any prices.



Yup and to trump the cost as some kind of criticism of the iPhone is pretty desperate.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

LOL! This is brilliant!


----------



## strung out (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup and to trump the cost as some kind of criticism of the iPhone is pretty desperate.


well it is overpriced. i bought a sensation sim-free, and one of the key factors in getting it over the iphone 4 was how much i'd have had to pay extra for a worse phone.


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup and to trump the cost as some kind of criticism of the iPhone is pretty desperate.



Devils in the detail of exactly how the argument was made. If I look at O2 contract prices for current iPhone 4, and Samsung Galaxy SII then I notice a big difference. A few hundred quid upfront and a tenner a months sort of difference.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2011)

elbows said:


> Devils in the detail of exactly how the argument was made. If I look at O2 contract prices for current iPhone 4, and Samsung Galaxy SII then I notice a big difference. A few hundred quid upfront and a tenner a months sort of difference.


There's no real financial justification for that though apart from operators trying to maximise profit - and it's why I tend to buy phones sim free myself, because networks will rip you off far above differences in those prices.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 5, 2011)

I think that more and more people are buying phones SIM free now. I don't have any stats to back this up, but with the rise in popularity of virtual networks like GiffGaff and 30 day rolling SIM only deals, SIM free must be gaining popularity.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> I think that more and more people are buying phones SIM free now. I don't have any stats to back this up, but with the rise in popularity of virtual networks like GiffGaff and 30 day rolling SIM only deals, SIM free must be gaining popularity.



They could be rising a huge rate but I doubt the actual figures are anything big at all really...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> I think that more and more people are buying phones SIM free now. I don't have any stats to back this up, but with the rise in popularity of virtual networks like GiffGaff and 30 day rolling SIM only deals, SIM free must be gaining popularity.


I think they are too, but it's still a minority interest - it's now just rare rather than simply unheard of.


----------



## strung out (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They could be rising a huge rate but I doubt the actual figures are anything big at all really...


it's still no reason to have a go at editor for giving the only prices we do actually know though. pretending the sim-free market isn't large enough to comment on which phones are better value, is barmy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> it's still no reason to have a go at editor for giving the only prices we do actually know though. pretending the sim-free market isn't large enough to comment on which phones are better value, is barmy.



LOL! I think you've got your knickers in a twist over nothing, it was just an expressed opinion. Get a grip.


----------



## strung out (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! I think you've got your knickers in a twist over nothing, it was just an expressed opinion. Get a grip.


just fed up with your shitty digs at editor on every thread about apple/android


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> just fed up with your shitty digs at editor on every thread about apple/android



Well others find his trolling tiring on every thread about Apple...horses for courses innit.


----------



## strung out (Oct 5, 2011)

you've been the troll recently


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2011)

Oh gawd, let's not eh.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

Anyway, moving on from strung out being highly strung...

This is a great idea:








> If selling your iPhone on eBay or great services like Gazelle are too cumbersome, Apple will now accept your used iPhone 4 and pay for it up to two hundred bucks, depending on its condition. Just head over to the Reuse and Recycle program at Apple’s site and hit the Get Started button underneath the “Get an Apple Gift Card for your old device” section.
> 
> 
> If your used iPhone 4 manages to fetch a cool $200, congrats – you just secured yourself a 16GB iPhone 4S free of charge (with a two-year contract). As part of yesterday’s reshuffling, the iPhone 4 is now available only with eight gigabytes of storage and priced at just $99. The iPhone 3GS, meanwhile, has gone free. Both older iPhone models require a two-year plan to fetch those prices. Apple is also offering the iPhone 4 and 3GS without a contract commitment for $549 and $375, respectively. What about a SIM-free iPhone 4S?


----------



## strung out (Oct 5, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh gawd, let's not eh.


he started it


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2011)

elbows said:


> Devils in the detail of exactly how the argument was made. If I look at O2 contract prices for current iPhone 4, and Samsung Galaxy SII then I notice a big difference. A few hundred quid upfront and a tenner a months sort of difference.



Oops, forgot that I was comparing a 32gb iphone 4 to a 16gb Galaxy. If I compare 16gb models then O2 are trying to get £200 more upfront from me for iPhone 4, but no higher months charge. A quick look at unlocked prices seems to suggest a difference of maybe around the £150 mark?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

The real reason the fanbois are complaining about the lack of form factor change:


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2011)

I don't remember so many complaints about that sort of thing when the 3GS came out.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

elbows said:


> I don't remember so many complaints about that sort of thing when the 3GS came out.



Me either. I don't think we'll see it again though, think people now understand that Apple have a set way of doing things and they're going to stick to it.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

elbows said:


> I don't remember so many complaints about that sort of thing when the 3GS came out.


It didn't take 15 months to come out, and their rivals weren't producing better phones when it launched.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

It had to come....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

Oh god, seriously the downfall parodies ceased being funny about 3 years ago...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2011)

On that I can agree. Wish the things would die


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)




----------



## ExtraRefined (Oct 5, 2011)

Crispy said:


> On that I can agree. Wish the things would die



Fuck that, memes never stop being funny.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

Crispy said:


> On that I can agree. Wish the things would die



Totally. It's the the meme equivalent of dad rock at this point.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh god, seriously the downfall parodies ceased being funny about 3 years ago...



The last funny one was Martinez quitting Swansea City. How long ago was that?

Besides, he should have asked Windows Mobile owners to leave.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Now this is funny: Apple's Siri means 'buttocks' in Japanese and 'penis' in Georgia!

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20116165-71/apples-siri-is-apples-buttocks-in-japan/


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

This is a better one: "Dual core? Even my hamster's pedometer is dual core these days!" 



*Note to grumps: just jog on if it doesn't amuse you. No need to comment. Your point has been made.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2011)

If there are two of them, it must be good!


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If there are two of them, it must be good!


No really. There's no need for you to comment.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 5, 2011)

editor said:


> Out of curiousity, when you say you've "heavily invested" in apps, how much have you actually paid between the two of you?



I'm so sad. I've just had lots of fun spreadsheeting it all out.

	        Cost	           Ave
TV.  	      21.83
Kids	       72.31	 1.23
Apps	59.40	1.98
Games	41.23	0.88

TOTAL	194.77

I found the results quite interesting too.

The 'apps' include Numbers, Pages, an OS map & some reference stuff -birds, fungi, trees etc as well as recipes.

It covers both iPhone & iPad. I didn't include music. . . .  REALLY annoyingly MrD didn't bother to look at the several hundred CD's in our living room, or even ask me & has bought some albums I already have


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 5, 2011)

Will we ever see a form of bootcamp on these devices?


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Simon Cowell could do the voiceover.






*sorry


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2011)

I see your



editor said:


>



and raise you a


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I see your
> and raise you a


No, really. No need to comment.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If there are two of them, it must be good!



Innit. Actually no Downfall video parodies are just crap now, they've been done to death and are only funny to the kind of people that still say crap is 'like such and such on ACID!'. #fail


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Innit. Actually no Downfall video parodies are just crap now, they've been done to death and are only funny to the kind of people that still say crap is 'like such and such on ACID!'. #fail


LOL.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

editor said:


> LOL.



Man you are so bloody sad, don't you have nothing better to do than to try and wreck any thread you don't approve off in the most childish way possible?


----------



## strung out (Oct 5, 2011)

of


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

So it seems that Nuance is powering the Siri feature.
http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/05/apple-siri-nuance


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

What?! This can't be true, can it?


> *But I already own the Siri app?*
> 
> Not any more you don’t. Apple will be wiping that app remotely from your handset on 16 October which gives you two days to pretend that you own an iPhone 4S. Yeah, sorry about that. (Except they’re not).
> 
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42420/what-is-siri-iphone-4s


Edit: surely they mean they'll just be shutting down the service for those who aren't rushing out to buy a 4S, no?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2011)

Who gives a shit?


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Who gives a shit?


What's the _matter_ with you? Why do you keep following me around just to post up insults or unpleasant comments?

I'm not the only one to notice, and it's rude, disruptive and I'd like you to stop now, please.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 6, 2011)

editor said:


> No really. There's no need for you to comment.





editor said:


> No, really. No need to comment.





editor said:


> What's the _matter_ with you? Why do you keep following me around just to post up insults or unpleasant comments?
> 
> I'm not the only one to notice, and it's rude, disruptive and I'd like you to stop now, please.



Silence!!! ALL OF YOU!!!!

Comedy gold.


----------



## Cid (Oct 6, 2011)

Well I suppose we know why Tim's appearance was a little muted now...


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

There's some good analysis on the new phone here, and in particular some informed writing about the camera's capabilities.



> *More Pixels Make It Better?*
> 
> When Apple says that the iPhone 4S camera has 60 percent more pixels than the iPhone 4 camera, it means that an 8-megapixel camera is technically 160 percent of the resolution of a 5-megapixel camera. So really, it doesn’t translate directly to improved image quality, as more megapixels aren't an indicator of better image quality on small-sensored cameras. The higher megapixel count does mean that you'll be able to print out images at a bigger size without losing resolution, or to crop images without the cropped area losing resolution.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2011)

The more MP = more noise rule only strictly applies when using the same chip design. The new sensor supposedly has a design that allows more chip area for sensing instead of interconnects and supports. 73% more light onto the sensor, they say.

Proof will come in side-by-side tests, naturally.


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

The 'megapixel war' is a complete nonsense when to comes to small cameras/camera phones. You'd get better results from a well designed 4MP chip than a 12MP sensor wedged on to a tiny sensor.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 6, 2011)

What are the sizes of the 2 chips that they use in the 4 and the 4S??

I'd imagine the hybrid IR filter is actually intended to improve exposure in low light levels when the flash throw isnt far enough, or using flash is undesirable. It could pave the way for some nice night shots from the iPhone 4.

Whilst I probably wont rush out and buy a 4s I will stick with iphone for a good while yet, for no other reason that I like the interface, and I like the syncing between all my 3 macs and my ipad and iphone. It just all works too well for me to turn my back on. Plus im an apple qualified technician, so I know the kit inside out.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2011)

editor said:


> The 'megapixel war' is a complete nonsense when to comes to small cameras/camera phones. You'd get better results from a well designed 4MP chip than a 12MP sensor wedged on to a tiny sensor.


  If the chips are of equivalent design and manufacturing process, yes. But if you can increase pixel count whilst increasing sensor effectiveness then you win on both counts.

Diagram of simplified cross section through a sensor chip. The black area is support and interconnects. The white area is light sensing.



The first two chips use the same manufacturing process. The second chip has 50% more pixels, but only 70% of the light-collecting area. This reduction in sensitivity is what makes the "megapixels or bust!" design more noisy. But if you can improve your manufacturing process, you can make the third chip, which has the same light-collecting area as the first, whilst doubling the pixel count. No loss in sensitivity, but a big increase in resolution.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 6, 2011)

It also depends on how they're counting the megapixels.

You should count the x axis and multiply it by the y axis for a correct figure, but a lot of camera companies multiply the 2 diagonals because it gives them a higher pixel count. thus they are cheeky f*cks.


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

Crispy said:


> If the chips are of equivalent design and manufacturing process, yes. But if you can increase pixel count whilst increasing sensor effectiveness then you win on both counts.


Larger sensors will always outperform smaller sensors when it comes to low light sensitivity and a 6MP full size sensor will completely outperform a 12MP small one. That's why pros still lug around huge cameras.

But the whole megapixel stuff in promo material is nonsense anyway.


> The Myth
> 
> The megapixel myth was started by camera makers and swallowed hook, line and sinker by camera measurebators. Camera makers use the number of megapixels a camera has to hoodwink you into thinking it has something to do with camera quality.
> 
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Oct 6, 2011)

editor said:


> Larger sensors will always outperform smaller sensors when it comes to low light sensitivity and a 6MP full size sensor will completely outperform a 12MP small one. That's why pros still lug around huge cameras.



Any proper pro worth their weight should be using one of these imho....


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Any proper pro worth their weight should be using one of these imho....


On the other hand, you don't need hugely expensive cameras to take superb shots. As any pro will tell you.

Even the humble iPhone 3 camera has taken some fantastic pictures.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2011)

editor said:


> 6MP full size sensor will completely outperform a 12MP small one.



The reason for this is because when using the same manufacturing processes, increasing the pixel count of a fixed-area chip decreases the total light-sensing area due to the fixed size of the non-sensing elements. If you change your manufacturing process, you can increase the pixel count _and_ maintain image quality. How else do you think modern compact cameras have managed to get up to 12MP when their 10 year old equivalents were shooting at 3MP, without sacrificing image quality?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 6, 2011)

editor said:


> On the other hand, you don't need hugely expensive cameras to take superb shots. As any pro will tell you.
> 
> Even the humble iPhone 3 camera has taken some fantastic pictures.



No not at all, but those H4D's do have a 6x7 sensor (or maybe a 6x4.5 one) that was more my point about sensor size.

I take some cracking shots on my holga, and thats a complete shitheap


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The reason for this is because when using the same manufacturing processes, increasing the pixel count of a fixed-area chip decreases the total light-sensing area due to the fixed size of the non-sensing elements. If you change your manufacturing process, you can increase the pixel count _and_ maintain image quality. How else do you think modern compact cameras have managed to get up to 8MP when their 10 year old equivalents were shooting at 3MP, with sacrificing image quality?


This 'manufacturing process' you keep quoting can't work miracles, and even a 5 year old full frame sensor will outperform a small 12MP one because small sensors are inherently noisier than large ones. The iPhone sensor is *tiny*.


> You will be better off with a larger image sensor and less megapixels than more megapixels and a smaller sensor.
> 
> The "Megapixel Myth" syndrome fails to recognize that the more megapixels you cram into a tiny image sensor the more noise and less usable ISO range you will generally have. Larger image sensors allow you to capture images with less noise and greater dynamic range than a smaller sensor. That results in better images.
> http://www.practicalphotographytips.com/Megapixel-Myth.html





> “The more pixels, the worse the image!”
> 
> But why? Well, compact cameras are supposed to be small and reasonably priced. Therefore small image sensors, e.g. format 7.5 x 9.4 mm or 5.4 x 6.8 mm, are built into the cameras. To increase the pixel count, the sensor has to be divided into smaller and smaller pixels.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

This handy guide shows you just how ridiculously small the iPhone camera sensor is:

http://www.uscoles.com/sensorsandlenses.pdf (PDF)


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2011)

editor said:


> This 'manufacturing process' you keep quoting can't work miracles, and even a 5 year old full frame sensor will outperform a small 12MP one because small sensors are inherently noisier than large ones. The iPhone sensor is *tiny*.


I know a full frame sensor is better. Manufacturing process _can _"work miracles". It's the reason pixel counts have increase over the last 10 years while image quality has been maintained. The article you quoted stated that:


> When you pack a sensor of the same size with more pixels, you can end up with a lot of noise and artifacts.


Which is true only if you use the same process. Let's say that the old design has sensors 20 microns wide, with 10 micron wide gaps between them, with a layer of interconnects on top. If you make the sensors 10 microns wide, but keep the gaps at 10 microns and the interconnects on top, then the image quality gets worse. If you keep the sensors 20 microns wide, but decrease the gaps to 5 microns and put the interconnects on the bottom layer, then you get a greater pixel density whilst improving the sensitivity of each individual pixel. These are the sort of things that "work miracles" and defy the scaling effects of merely shrinking an old design.


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

I can see you're not listening to me, but I suggest you talk to some pro photographers and see what they all say about small sensor performance.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2011)

I am listening to you  - I understand your point and am providing a counter-point. At no point have I said that small sensors can outperform large ones. My original point was in reply to the article you quoted, which stated that more pixels results in decreased quality, which is not necessarily the case.


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

This kind of takes away some of the gloss of the Siri app, if true:


> The Siri feature in the iPhone 4S still requires activation by hand and can't support hands-free as the Galaxy S II can, according to officials at Sensory, whose hands-free activation technology is in the Galaxy S II.
> 
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipad-iphone/news/index.cfm


----------



## sim667 (Oct 6, 2011)

^ thats a 'moving swiftly on' kinda post innit?


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

sim667 said:


> ^ thats a 'moving swiftly on' kinda post innit?


Seemed rather pointless carrying on, tbh. There's only so many supporting links you can post up.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2011)

I wasn't disagreeing with you, editor. I read everything you linked to.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Silence!!! ALL OF YOU!!!!
> 
> Comedy gold.



It's funny isn't it, accusing others of his own actions, ruining threads, and then complaining others do. Classic delusional state of mind. But anyway...I'm done with this now (hence my who gives a shit comment above). Jobs is dead, the fandroids can be happy.


----------



## elbows (Oct 6, 2011)

editor said:


> I can see you're not listening to me, but I suggest you talk to some pro photographers and see what they all say about small sensor performance.



Surely its the other way round, you not listening to him? Because he was able to look at the detail of why smaller is often worse, and then demonstrate how some aspects of this can be overcome in very specific ways. Apples stats about the percentage more light that gets to the sensor is reason enough to wait and judge how successful this stuff is by looking at actual image quality.


----------



## elbows (Oct 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> But anyway...I'm done with this now (hence my who gives a shit comment above).



Permanently or just for now? At the very least please take an extended break from it.


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2011)

elbows said:


> Surely its the other way round, you not listening to him? Because he was able to look at the detail of why smaller is often worse, and then demonstrate how some aspects of this can be overcome in very specific ways.


Low light performance/dynamic range will always be relatively poor on a small sensor and the more pixels you pack on to that sensor the worse it will get. Sensors will of course keep on improving, but the combination of a tiny lens and a ton of megapixels wedged onto a tiny sensor will never improve on a larger sensor with less pixels. The links I've posted explain that in some detail.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2011)

editor said:


> the combination of a tiny lens and a ton of megapixels wedged onto a tiny sensor will never improve on a larger sensor with less pixels. The links I've posted explain that in some detail.


Not once did I deny this.


editor said:


> Low light performance/dynamic range will always be relatively poor on a small sensor and the more pixels you pack on to that sensor the worse it will get.


Yes, but:


> Sensors will of course keep on improving


Which alleviates the issues caused by the addition of extra pixels. The ISO of today's cameraphone sensors is just as good if not better than those of 5 years ago, despite the increase in pixel count. Not as good as a large SLR sensor, of course.


----------



## elbows (Oct 6, 2011)

I have heated debates with my mum all the time where it becomes clear that we aren't actually disagreeing, and yet the argument still manages to rage on for some time. Will our sensors ever improve enough to overcome this problem?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2011)

Maybe there are two shadow posters that only reveal themselves to editor or myself, so that it appears we're having a senseless row whereas in fact we're trading well reasoned debate with someone only each other can see.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2011)

elbows said:


> Permanently or just for now? At the very least please take an extended break from it.



Permanently unless directly quoted by him.


----------



## Me76 (Oct 6, 2011)

I have a 3G. I was having a look around this morning and I reckon I could now get a used 16gb 3GS for about £160 or a 4 for under £300.  

I was also looking at what's coming in ios5 and realised that it is the os features I'm missing rather than any hardware.

So the hunt is now on for a good condition 3GS.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2011)

Me76 said:


> I have a 3G. I was having a look around this morning and I reckon I could now get a used 16gb 3GS for about £160 or a 4 for under £300.
> 
> I was also looking at what's coming in ios5 and realised that it is the os features I'm missing rather than any hardware.
> 
> So the hunt is now on for a good condition 3GS.



As far as I'm aware iOS5 should run pretty well on the 3GS too.


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2011)

IPhone 4S pricing is up and it's as pricey as you might expect:

Apple iPhone 4S pre-order page
Vodafone pre-order page
Orange pre-order page

*
*


----------



## Mapped (Oct 7, 2011)

Me76 said:


> I have a 3G. I was having a look around this morning and I reckon I could now get a used 16gb 3GS for about £160 or a 4 for under £300.
> 
> I was also looking at what's coming in ios5 and realised that it is the os features I'm missing rather than any hardware.
> 
> So the hunt is now on for a good condition 3GS.



I've got a used 32gb 3GS. It's got a few small scratches on the screen though. I had promised it to my Mrs, but she has just developed an irrational fear of smart phones and the modern world in general  If I can't persuade her to take it by the end of the weekend I may consider getting rid of it for less than £160


----------



## Me76 (Oct 7, 2011)

N1 Buoy said:


> I've got a used 32gb 3GS. It's got a few small scratches on the screen though. I had promised it to my Mrs, but she has just developed an irrational fear of smart phones and the modern world in general  If I can't persuade her to take it by the end of the weekend I may consider getting rid of it for less than £160



Interesting.  Keep me informed


----------



## Mapped (Oct 7, 2011)

Are you in London? You might want to take a look at it first. It's looking likely that it's available.

My latest communicae with her: "No. I don't want it! I don't want to be dragged into your world"


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 7, 2011)

£699 for the 32GB! Fuck! I'm not going to be buying one, but I sincerely hope this doesn't set the pricing precedent for the new Nexus phone, which is also rumoured to be 32GB.


----------



## Me76 (Oct 7, 2011)

N1 Buoy said:


> Are you in London? You might want to take a look at it first. It's looking likely that it's available.
> 
> My latest communicae with her: "No. I don't want it! I don't want to be dragged into your world"


PM on it's way.

My BF will be getting my 3G.  Last night he said "then I'll be as boring as you"


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> £699 for the 32GB! Fuck! I'm not going to be buying one, but I sincerely hope this doesn't set the pricing precedent for the new Nexus phone, which is also rumoured to be 32GB.


 Crazy prices, innit?


----------



## Kanda (Oct 7, 2011)

£79 then if I wanted to get one at my current contract cost.


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2011)

Kanda said:


> £79 then if I wanted to get one at my current contract cost.


Is it much more than my current £10 a month for unlimited data? Oh, Vodafone aren't doing unlimited data.


----------



## fen_boy (Oct 7, 2011)

32gb is £599 not £699


----------



## Kanda (Oct 7, 2011)

editor said:


> Is it much more than my current £10 a month for unlimited data? Oh, Vodafone aren't doing unlimited data.



I've never hit a data limit using the phone. I think I'm on a gig a month with O2. What calls/texts do you get for a tenner a month??

I won't be getting a 4S though. Mrs will to upgrade her 3GS.


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> 32gb is £599 not £699


I don't get how they can charge another £100 for an extra 32GB when you can buy a 32GB microSD card for around £30.


----------



## fen_boy (Oct 7, 2011)

Because it's a solid state drive not an SD card, but I agree it's expensive.


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I've never hit a data limit using the phone. I think I'm on a gig a month with O2. What calls/texts do you get for a tenner a month??


Unlimited texts, 250 mins, unlimited free calls to Giffgaff members, with call minutes upgradeable for a fiver or tenner. How much are you paying per month?


----------



## Kanda (Oct 7, 2011)

editor said:


> Unlimited texts, 250 mins, unlimited free calls to Giffgaff members, with call minutes upgradeable for a fiver or tenner. How much are you paying per month?



£46/month. Unlimited texts (I think). 1200 mins.


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2011)

Kanda said:


> £46/month. Unlimited texts (I think). 1200 mins.


Ouch!


----------



## Kanda (Oct 7, 2011)

editor said:


> Ouch!



Nah, is fine. At least it's a fixed cost. My phone bills used to be over £100/month...


----------



## Kanda (Oct 7, 2011)

Just checked O2recycle.. they're paying out £280 odd for iPhone 4's and £119 for 3GS's. Probably get more on ebay though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 7, 2011)

The tarriffs I've seen are proper shite! There's no good data deals...I don't care about tons of minutes and texts anymore I want data!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 7, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Just checked O2recycle.. they're paying out £280 odd for iPhone 4's and £119 for 3GS's. Probably get more on ebay though.



That actually aint too bad.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 7, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The tarriffs I've seen are proper shite! There's no good data deals...I don't care about tons of minutes and texts anymore I want data!



I've got a 1GB/month deal on the iPad. I watch tons of Sky Go, Soccer Saturday in the pub etc.. have never gone over it.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 7, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The tarriffs I've seen are proper shite! There's no good data deals...I don't care about tons of minutes and texts anymore I want data!



Indeed. Which is why I'm loath to leave my current contract with free mobile broadband and 3gb of data a month.

Trying to work out if it worth getting sim free and keeping my tarrif with a 20% discount for extending.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 7, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I've got a 1GB/month deal on the iPad. I watch tons of Sky Go, Soccer Saturday in the pub etc.. have never gone over it.



I'm on sim only, get a gig a month on my 3GS and regularly go over that.

Reckon the networks have fucked up here, they're gonna have a lot of angry customers once iCloud gets going sucking data all day long and caning people's meagre data allowances...better to be upfront, give people some flexibility and make a lot of money out of them that way...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2011)

Jesus, has anyone done a spread sheet of all the tariffs and their details, trying to work this shit out is giving me a headache!


----------



## Kanda (Oct 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Jesus, has anyone done a spread sheet of all the tariffs and their details, trying to work this shit out is giving me a headache!



I never bother. I just gauge what I am happy to pay then just go for it. Can't be arsed seeking out the best deal.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2011)

Fair enough. Looks like 3 have some of the best deals. Like the easy to read way they show them too...


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2011)

3 also have the most complaints about their service.  I wouldn't sign up with them.
http://www.wirefresh.com/talk-talk-the-network-people-love-to-complain-about-ofcom/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2011)

Those figures look awfully low. Plus I've tested 3's network in the places I visit most and it's currently faster and more stable than my current network so I'm happy to sign up with them.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2011)

Guardian has made some pretty graphs to show the cost of iPhone 4S ownership. It's a lorra dosh.

16GB:





32GB:




64GB:





http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/oct/08/iphone-4s-uk-tariffs-graphical

Comparing that with its nearest rival, the Samsung Galaxy S2: you can pick an unlocked 16GB S2 up for £389, add a 32GB card for £33 and then spend a £10/month with GiffGaff for unlimited texts/data and 250mins talk = £542


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 8, 2011)

that's quite handy. looks like orange are the people to go with, then. wonder if that's the same for the original 4, now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2011)

So going by the above 3 are a good choice money wise too then...hmmmm....


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 10, 2011)

OMG. I've just been looking at the O2 tariffs for the 4S, I knew they'd taken a hike recently, but what I'm paying £35 a month for now, (well a little bit more with the extra VAT), is £68 quid!!!

MrD pays about the same, but we think he still has unlimited data. We're trying to calculate if it's worth buying him a 4S outright now & recouping the most possible for his slightly battered, but perfectly functioning 3GS. We popped into CEX on Friday & they wouldn't give us a price because one scratch was too deep . . .  but on their website they're buying non working ones for £27 :S

I am :-0 at the tariffs.


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm never going back to being lumbered in a contract - £10/month on Giffgaff is ace!

I've just looked at the o2 deals and they've no unlimited data option for the 4S, which is a bit rubbish, no?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 10, 2011)

Buy it straight off and look for the best SIM-only deal. I'm only ever going to do that nowadays.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 10, 2011)

I've been looking at the gift gaff & I'm very drawn. MrD's contract isn't up til April time & mine is July. Looking at Gifford Gaff, even with loosing our O2 broadband connection, we'd still be quids in.

MrD is sceptical, I think cos he's not heard of them, but he's got months to decide.

It was only 2 months ago I looked at tariffs, cos we were setting up our iPad 3G plan. & I was shocked at how much they'd increased, but this is just :-O

The data costs are comparable to the rolling iPad £10 for 1GB. But none being included is :-0, I was gutted last year when I lost my unlimited data . . . .

The cheapest 2yr contract on a 32GB is only saving you £130 on buying outright price.


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2011)

I switched to Giff Gaff from o2 and there was zero difference in coverage /performance (it's the same network anyway).


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 10, 2011)

editor said:


> I switched to Giff Gaff from o2 and there was zero difference in coverage /performance (it's the same network anyway).


it's just not doable if you can't stump the cash up front.


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> it's just not doable if you can't stump the cash up front.


Well, that's true: if you're hell bent on an iPhone 4S, then it is very expensive.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2011)

Wow! iPhone 4S tops 1 million pre-orders. Impressive...apparently it's the fastest selling Apple device ever too.



> Allaying any doubts that the iPhone 4S will be a big seller, Apple announced pre-orders for the new model topped 1 million in 24 hours, which breaks the previous single-day record of 600,000 for the iPhone 4.
> 
> 
> In a press release posted on Apple.com — the company’s first public statement since Steve Jobs’s death — Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of worldwide product marketing, said he was “blown away” by the consumer response to the iPhone 4S.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 10, 2011)

Interesting to note an unlocked 32GB 4s is going for the same price as the 4 when it was released, which given the VAT increase and inflation must equal a small price drop.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> Interesting to note an unlocked 32GB 4s is going for the same price as the 4 when it was released, which given the VAT increase and inflation must equal a small price drop.



Oh yeah, didn't spot that!


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> Interesting to note an unlocked 32GB 4s is going for the same price as the 4 when it was released, which given the VAT increase and inflation must equal a small price drop.


Well, sort of. Until you factor in the falling price of memory!


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm of the opinion a company will charge what it can get away with, what's the bet the new nexus prime will end up being roughly £80 cheaper than the 4s.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> I'm of the opinion a company will charge what it can get away with, what's the bet the new nexus prime will end up being roughly £80 cheaper than the 4s.



Pretty much, that's how this stuff works...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2011)

Video here of the 4s in action, have to say it looks pretty damn snappy!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2011)

iPhone 4S is looking like a snappy phone:


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2011)

Not really sure what all the extra speed is going do. My S2 is already mighty fast and I really can't think how it can conceivably do anything any faster in everyday use. If the Nexus/S3 ends up going even faster it may end up just getting silly - well, at least until there's useful apps that actually need that power.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2011)

Increased user experience, the video I saw of apps opening etc looked very nice indeed. Then there's games, more power means better games. I think this is a nice bump in specs...


----------



## elbows (Oct 11, 2011)

Yeah that particular benchmark is a guide to 3D app performance. Bit of an eye opener for me as 3D development is where I am going (slowly). And my ideas tend to push mobile devices past their present limits. These benchmarks tell me to wait at least one more hardware generation before sticking my toe in the android water.

The original source of the benchmarks, with a few others including browser performance, is here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4951/...rks-800mhz-a5-slightly-slower-gpu-than-ipad-2


----------



## elbows (Oct 11, 2011)

Also O2's pricing is a bit better than the others it seems.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2115829/o2-undercuts-competition-iphone-4s


----------



## sim667 (Oct 11, 2011)

Hang on, but the o2 contracts dont include any data at all?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2011)

Yup they're shit.


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2011)

Teensy weensy 100MB data/month will cost you an extra £3/month, 500MB £6 and the 1GB option sets you back a tenner a month. There's no unlimited option on O2. They're aaaavin' a laaaaugh.


----------



## grit (Oct 11, 2011)

editor said:


> Teensy weensy 100MB data/month will cost you an extra £3/month, 500MB £6 and the 1GB option sets you back a tenner a month. There's no unlimited option on O2. They're aaaavin' a laaaaugh.



There is on sim only contracts


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2011)

grit said:


> There is on sim only contracts



Which makes no financial sense with regards to the iPhone 4S. O2 are on another planet!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2011)

*cough*

might possibly have ordered one


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2011)

Look forward to reading about your experience.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2011)

I nearly won one tonight, but the tombola didn't quite roll my way.


----------



## Mapped (Oct 12, 2011)

Seems windows users are having a few problems in getting iOS 5 tonight. Or my freinds are complete muppets. Both scenarios are possible


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2011)

Everybody is having problems. Well, there are a lot of people trying to update at the same time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2011)

Yep with all those 3GS' and iPhone 4 users out there must be tens of millions of people all trying to get it...


----------



## OneStrike (Oct 12, 2011)

5 minutes remaining for my battered old 3gs! it sped up to real time over the last 20 minutes.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2011)

Downloading the Mac OSX update, 800 odd MBs! 

It's taken 10 minutes to get to 88mb....


----------



## OneStrike (Oct 12, 2011)

Finished but the media can't be backed up as it required 2.68gb of free space and i only have 2.6 available! grrr.  continue will result in the loss of all media on this phone, or cancel.  hmmmf


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2011)

Turn off some media, sync, turn it back on again.


----------



## fen_boy (Oct 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Downloading the Mac OSX update, 800 odd MBs!
> 
> It's taken 10 minutes to get to 88mb....



I've just been through this. 950MB download which took about 3 hours, then reboot and install for 25 minutes. Now up and running again and it's downloading the iOS update which will take another 20 minutes.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2011)

Just hit 300mb...


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 13, 2011)

Mine went through fine, with a Mac, but it took about 3 hours. 

There is no camera icon on the slider screen which I thought was part of iOS 5 :-S can't see anywhere to set it up either.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2011)

An early review from Gizmodo. _Surely_ you can delete your own photos?


> ..one thing isn’t cloudily fun: Photo Stream. It’s a mess.
> There are two major malfunctions here:
> 
> Photo Stream only syncs your last 1,000 or 30 days of iOS images. One thousand sounds like a big number! But thirty days is nothing. It’s a crippling limitation. For a device you’ll carry around with you everywhere you go, the things you saw within the past few weeks only are pretty inconsequential. This isn’t true backup. It’s a sliver of your collection. It’s econo-backup. It’s lame.
> ...


Here's an earlier, more enthusiastic review of the iCloud wotsit:
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2011/10/icloud-is-a-bigger-deal-than-you-think-its-the-future-of-computing/


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

DIMPLES1 said:


> There is no camera icon on the slider screen which I thought was part of iOS 5 :-S can't see anywhere to set it up either.



Quickly press the home button twice when the screen is off or on lock screen, and you will see a variation of the lock screen that has the camera icon.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

We are in the wrong thread with all this iOS 5 talk really.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Oct 13, 2011)

Bollocks to iPhones/ Apple.
Switching to Windows once those Nokias come out.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

How strange and unexpected it is to find myself interested in voice technology for the first time in about 20 years. So if I get out of bed early enough tomorrow then I will make an attempt to get an iPhone 4s from the local O2 store. If this purchasing attempt fails then I will likely console myself by getting an Apple TV box for use with my iPad.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2011)

elbows said:


> How strange and unexpected it is to find myself interested in voice technology for the first time in about 20 years.


You could have tried it out on multiple mobile platforms years ago!


----------



## Crispy (Oct 13, 2011)

And it would have been a good deal more basic.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2011)

Crispy said:


> And it would have been a good deal more basic.


Not really. Vlingo is fundamentally the same thing, really. It's not like Apple invented this technology.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 13, 2011)

I havent tried the apple one, but the past ones ive tried have been shit

Actually I did try the iphone4 one the other day, unsurprisingly it didnt work, but then i do have a lisp and there were a few S's in what I was asking for.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I havent tried the apple one, but the past ones ive tried have been shit


Prompted by the upsurge in interest, I gave the one on my S2 a go last night. I said, "Message Em" and read out the message and it did it word perfectly straight away. Quite impressive really, but I still can't see me using it much.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 13, 2011)

Did it read the message back to you?

Hey hoe, imagine the extra noise pollution we're going get with people shouting into their phones


----------



## Redeyes (Oct 13, 2011)

editor said:


> Prompted by the upsurge in interest, I gave the one on my S2 a go last night. I said, "Message Em" and read out the message and it did it word perfectly straight away. Quite impressive really, but I still can't see me using it much.



I've been trying Vlingo to send texts on my Desire while out in the car and to be honest I could pull the car over, type the message, send it and set off again in the time it takes to get the thing to work. Background noise from the car and the road forces you to shout everything two or three times...


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> Did it read the message back to you?


Thankfully not, although it barks a few questions at me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2011)

DIMPLES1 said:


> Mine went through fine, with a Mac, but it took about 3 hours.
> 
> There is no camera icon on the slider screen which I thought was part of iOS 5 :-S can't see anywhere to set it up either.



Mine was quite quick but can't log in to iCloud. Got the section on my pref window but it won't accept my Apple ID despite it being correct...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2011)

elbows said:


> We are in the wrong thread with all this iOS 5 talk really.



Thread derails are apparently the new discussion style on urban75!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2011)

elbows said:


> We are in the wrong thread with all this iOS 5 talk really.



Handy little thread to talk iOS 5.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

editor said:


> You could have tried it out on multiple mobile platforms years ago!



Well let me explain the detail of my interest.

The appalling frustration that came from trying much older iterations of this technology caused me to close my eyes completely to subsequent versions. Even when the 4S apple stuff was announced, I initially struggled to take it seriously. But then when I actually started to think about how this sort of tech can work when integrated with many of the features of modern smartphones, apps and internet services, I started to get interested. Especially when its integrated at the OS level, and when its heavily promoted so that the masses actually realise such things exist.

Also as briefly mentioned here a while back, I have finally had the opportunity to see how non-geek users who would not choose to purchase a smartphone would get on with the iPhone, since my workplace decided to get a dozen iPhones and hand them out.Its been a success for the people whose job role makes certain functionality very useful, but its been a bit of a failure for the rest on certain levels. Not a complete failure where the users end up hating the device, but when talking to a number of them it seems they are not really getting much out of the experience. something is still missing from the picture when it comes to these users. I have no idea whether this voice stuff will make the slightest bit of difference to this, but its possible. Sadly Im not likely to get to find out quite how such functionality goes down with these users for a long time, because of Apple choosing to use this functionality to sell a new phone.

Im also extremely interested to see whether such tech enhances the tablet experience at some point.

I've no idea how I will et on with this stuff myself, looking at some not-terribly detailed reviews of alternatives (e.g. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394267,00.asp#fbid=WrVF8hwSBc0 ) leaves me slightly underwhelmed so I don't think I'll bother to try them unless my somewhat half-hearted attempt to get an iPhone 4S tomorrow morning fails.I don't like the idea of getting out of bed early on a week where I haven't had enough sleep, with the prospect of staggering into town only to discover an obscene queue.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2011)

I think you might be disappointed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2011)

It's going to be amazing once it takes off...but anyway there's already a thread for that...

iPhone 4S looks like it's going down in history, it's already sold out in the US! 



> Apple announced it had sold 1 million iPhone 4Ss across 100 world carriers in 24 hours in contrast with 600,000 across the five launch countries in 2010 with the iPhone 4.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

editor said:


> I think you might be disappointed.



Of course I might and of course you do.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 13, 2011)

iPhone 4S teardown
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone-4S-Teardown/6610/1


----------



## Structaural (Oct 13, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> iPhone 4S teardown
> http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone-4S-Teardown/6610/1



That was quite funny


----------



## Kanda (Oct 14, 2011)

Bloomberg reporting they could sell 4 million this weekend!

Saw the usual screaming nutters outside the store today on my way in.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 14, 2011)

No local searching in Siri outside the US just yet:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/siri-faq.html


> Maps and local search support will be available in additional countries in 2012.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 14, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Mine was quite quick but can't log in to iCloud. Got the section on my pref window but it won't accept my Apple ID despite it being correct...



I didn't update the Mac OS til yesterday & this. . . Can't log into iCloud but it's trying to update calendar, so had to un choose it, as it seemed it be holding up the update of the iPad cos it kept wanting me to put my keychain password in.

Just got the iPod left to do.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2011)

I decided there was no way on earth I was going to subject myself to launch day tedium, so I'll wait a while before getting a 4S. In theory I might still change my mind and get something else.


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2011)

elbows said:


> I decided there was no way on earth I was going to subject myself to launch day tedium, so I'll wait a while before getting a 4S. In theory I might still change my mind and get something else.


I think that's the most sensible approach for any new product.

I've never queued up for a new phone and it's always wise to see how the user feedback shapes up before shelling out your dosh.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2011)

Yeah, I did the same with the iPhone 4 launch and ended up not bothering in the end. Then my funds ran low and I just decided to hang on as long as possible before getting a new phone, and somehow I've lasted till now. But I can't wait much longer before getting a new phone of some kind.

It seems that a variety of O2 stores still have some black 16 & 32 GB ones left, at least according to the online stock checker.

http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/stock/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 14, 2011)

Crispy said:


> No local searching in Siri outside the US just yet:
> 
> http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/siri-faq.html



That is disappointing but as you say it's bound to happen...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 14, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Bloomberg reporting they could sell 4 million this weekend!
> 
> Saw the usual screaming nutters outside the store today on my way in.



Wouldn't surprise me. I guess that would warrant a separate thread if the complaints could be managed!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 14, 2011)

Fucking hell! If this is true this is some very impressive video stablelisation for a phone!


----------



## Crispy (Oct 15, 2011)

Pretty good. It's still got that 'bendy' feeling that you get from rolling shutter, though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Pretty good. It's still got that 'bendy' feeling that you get from rolling shutter, though.



Yeah fair comment, didn't expect this to actually be that dramatically different as I've a fairly low opinion of phones when it comes to video...


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

Just looked at my contacts on blank brand new sim for me iphone4s and there are 60 or so people listed that I don't know. My name and number is there. What is that about?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Just looked at my contacts on blank brand new sim for me iphone4s and there are 60 or so people listed that I don't know. My name and number is there. What is that about?



Very odd, not heard that before.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Just looked at my contacts on blank brand new sim for me iphone4s and there are 60 or so people listed that I don't know. My name and number is there. What is that about?



My first guess is that you think you are looking at the contacts on the SIM, but actually these contacts are on the phone, not the SIM, and these contacts have got onto your phone when you hooked it up to your computer.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 15, 2011)

You are so not looking on the contacts on the SIM


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

Wondering if he synced with Twitter or something?


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Wondering if he synced with Twitter or something?



Im pretty sure the twitter iOS5 contacts update doesn't work quite like that.

More likely the contacts came from a windows address book or outlook address book, or from another device using the same iCloud account.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

elbows said:


> Im pretty sure the twitter iOS5 contacts update doesn't work quite like that.
> 
> More likely the contacts came from a windows address book or outlook address book, or from another device using the same iCloud account.



Yeah just checked, it doesn't quite...this is bloody odd.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

For those who love stats about people queing up for new iPhones, here's a handy infographic from today at Apple's Regent Store.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> For those who love stats about people queing up for new iPhones, here's a hand infographic from today at Apple's Regent Store.


Speechless with


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

Yes i was being dumb about Sim. But these 60 contacts have nothing to do with me whatsoever. They are not from gmail, twitter or anywhere i know of. They all have photos, addresses. They are from all over the world. Oddly some of them have same photo for different people. There are some entries for Apple related numbers and the entry for me has the photo my Macbook took of me when i first set the computer up, with my real address and a mutation of an old home phone number. It's all very odd!


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

Just noticed these contacts are replicated on my Address Book on the my laptop, an app which I have never opened before.


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

Almost all have @mac addresses. wonder if something to do with this https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1648256?start=0&tstart=0


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

one of them is anna-haro@mac.com. put that in google and see what happens with first few results. Odd!


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

And there was also a mysterious 'guest user' icon which appeared on my desktop alongside my photo which i click on when computer starts up


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

One of the mysterious contacts is John Appleseed, check this from web: _John Appleseed shows up in the iPhone ads and related iPhone and Mac imagery. We fully admit to being geeks, as we actually called John Appleseed’s number. Sadly, all we got on the other line was a voicemail box that hadn’t yet been set up, and when we e-mailed to appleseed_john@mac.com it came back with a “delivery to the following recipient failed permanently,” which seems like a missed marketing opportunity._


----------



## Sunray (Oct 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Fucking hell! If this is true this is some very impressive video stablelisation for a phone!




Mightly impressed by that.

Gets a bit wonky if you go mad, but when its modestly steady it stops the iphone4 wobble cam effect which makes it nearly unwatchable.

Remember you can watch that in 1080p full screen


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm guessing one of them is also Albert Einstein? At 'princenton.something'?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Mightly impressed by that.
> 
> Gets a bit wonky if you go mad, but when its modestly steady it stops the iphone4 wobble cam effect which makes it nearly unwatchable.
> 
> Remember you can watch that in 1080p full screen



Yep.


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I'm guessing one of them is also Albert Einstein? At 'princenton.something'?



he's not there, but when i google some of the other names (mentioned above) he's alongside them


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

on phone to Apple at mo - they are mystified and so am being passed around to everyone under the sun


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

they have described it as "a prototype that got lost in the iCloud" and maybe result of iCloud "going haywire" when ios5 kicked off. he said John Appleseed is a fake contact they have in Apple planning meetings. It's all very odd. He told me to delete all my fake contacts and said it wasn't spam


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 15, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> they have described it as "a prototype that got lost in the iCloud" and maybe result of iCloud "going haywire" when ios5 kicked off. he said John Appleseed is a fake contact they have in Apple planning meetings. It's all very odd. He told me to delete all my fake contacts and said it wasn't spam


That is very peculiar but also interesting. I suppose there's a "hey you get off of my Cloud" sort of joke in there too.


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

And now i've realised my calenders are chock full of fake events, how can i delete entire calenders? (i asked this on ios5 thread too)


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> And now i've realised my calenders are chock full of fake events, how can i delete entire calenders? (i asked this on ios5 thread too)


Why would it be full of fake events?


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 15, 2011)

Because somehow an Apple 'prototype' (according to Apple adviser) has got into my account 'when iCloud went haywire' with people connecting and filled my account with fake contacts and events. The prototype is apparently used for Apple planning meetings to test out the software etc. It was easy to delete the 60 or so contacts but i have no idea how to clear an entire calender with fake events every day till 2014 or something. when i tried to call Apple for 2nd time to ask about the calender stuff (which i hadn't spotted before) i had to give up after 25 mins on hold.

Aaaarse


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Because somehow an Apple 'prototype' (according to Apple adviser) has got into my account 'when iCloud went haywire' with people connecting and filled my account with fake contacts and events. The prototype is apparently used for Apple planning meetings to test out the software etc. It was easy to delete the 60 or so contacts but i have no idea how to clear an entire calender with fake events every day till 2014 or something. when i tried to call Apple for 2nd time to ask about the calender stuff (which i hadn't spotted before) i had to give up after 25 mins on hold.
> 
> Aaaarse


Write them a shirty letter demanding compensation for the inconvenience.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

Amazingly people were queuing today outside O2 on Oxford Street! About 20 odd people...very odd. I just walked into the 3 shop and walked out with a brand new iPhone 4S (64gig) in under 10 minutes!


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Amazingly people were queuing today outside O2 on Oxford Street! About 20 odd people...very odd. I just walked into the 3 shop and walked out with a brand new iPhone 4S (64gig) in under 10 minutes!


How much did that cost you?


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 15, 2011)

Perhaps they had 02 contracts and were upgrading.

I'm going to pass on the 4s and possibly wait until the next release (the IOS 5 upgrade has sated my appetite for something new) and I'd like to keep an open mind on the android front.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> Perhaps they had 02 contracts and were upgrading.
> 
> I'm going to pass on the 4s and possibly wait until the next release (the IOS 5 upgrade has sated my appetite for something new) and I'd like to keep an open mind on the android front.



Yeah that makes sense...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

Wow syncing 30 gigs of data is fun...


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2011)

How much did you pay for your iPhone?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2011)

Wow this thing is bloody fast! Opening up games or loading web pages is lightening fast!


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2011)

That's great! But much did you pay for such a speedy device?


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 16, 2011)

editor said:


> That's great! But much did you pay for such a speedy device?

















One of them, I'd guess!


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 16, 2011)

Crikey, you're a bit stifled with the internet on owt other than 'the one plan,' ay?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2011)

Very happy with 3's mobile service so fast, getting 4/5 bars regularly and the download speeds are bloody fast!


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> One of them, I'd guess!


Yes. And I was interested in finding out which one he'd chosen. Simple enough question, I would have thought....


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 16, 2011)

editor said:


> Yes. And I was interested in finding out which one he'd chosen. Simple enough question, I would have thought....


So you're well aware of the range of prices on offer, from which K_E chose, but you're particularly interested in the specific amount he chose to spend?! That sounds as if it's not just a question / curiosity about the iPhone, ed


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> So you're well aware of the range of prices on offer, from which K_E chose, but you're particularly interested in the specific amount he chose to spend?! That sounds as if it's not just a question / curiosity about the iPhone, ed


It was a simple enough question to him that really doesn't need your involvement in any shape or forum.

I was curious as to what the whole package cost him and what data deal he'd gone for. If he's unwilling to answer that question, well, that is a bit odd, but there you go.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Crikey, you're a bit stifled with the internet on owt other than 'the one plan,' ay?


Those aren't the worst around either - somebody was looking at the O2 (I think) plans last week in the office and the lowest ones come with 250Mb. I could probably get by on 500, but 250 would be pushing it, and I'm not a very heavy 3G user really.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Those aren't the worst around either - somebody was looking at the O2 (I think) plans last week in the office and the lowest ones come with 250Mb. I could probably get by on 500, but 250 would be pushing it, and I'm not a very heavy 3G user really.


I think people going for the cheaper/low data tariffs are going to be stiffed later on. Consumers are burning up more and more data on their phones, and even 1GB tariffs may prove limiting for some folks.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2011)

By 3's own reckoning, the average amount of data used by iPhone 4 users went up from 488MBs a month in February 2011 to 1.2GB in August 2011. Anyone not on an unlimited package may find some uncomfortable bills later on (which was partly why I was wondering what KE had signed up for).


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 16, 2011)

It's also not clear how much data Siri will use, and for which functions.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Those aren't the worst around either - somebody was looking at the O2 (I think) plans last week in the office and the lowest ones come with 250Mb. I could probably get by on 500, but 250 would be pushing it, and I'm not a very heavy 3G user really.



O2 is shit, 3 is pretty much the best from what I can see. Orange came a close 2nd. People are being sold a false economy with texts and minutes and fuck all data, iCloud usage is going to drive up data usage big time over the coming two years...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> So you're well aware of the range of prices on offer, from which K_E chose, but you're particularly interested in the specific amount he chose to spend?! That sounds as if it's not just a question / curiosity about the iPhone, ed



I don't really want to get into that meta discussion any more but yeah you're right, I just reasoned Editor was going to try and make something off it and I couldn't be bothered with the derail or other people jumping in to support him or me etc...


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2011)

I 





Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't really want to get into that meta discussion any more but yeah you're right, I just reasoned Editor was going to try and make something off it and I couldn't be bothered with the derail or other people jumping in to support him or me etc...


Stop being so weirdly paranoid. I just asked how much you ended up paying for the phone and was curious what data deal you'd gone for. *That was it.*

It's exactly the same question people asked me when I bought my S2 and I had no problem answering it.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 16, 2011)

What's the limit on 'unlimited data'? I presume there's a fair usage policy?


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's also not clear how much data Siri will use, and for which functions.


There's a post on Apple's forum about this:



> Based on my quick experience last night, Siri uses tons of data plan. I tried several times and finally got a short text message sent-- maybe 3-4 attempts, and my data plan usage was already >7MB. I'm only on the 200MB plan, so I guess i'm only using Siri from home or on wifi. *****. you'd think with the fast processor on-board, they'd at least let non-internet usage work locally. Big disappointment that you basically have to pay for more data to use the new feature-- wish they'd made that much more up-front.
> 
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3365429?start=0&tstart=0


By the way, I just came across this piece about "Siri and the looming privacy debate" that might be worth a look.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> What's the limit on 'unlimited data'? I presume there's a fair usage policy?


Like GiffGaff, they say that their offering is "truly unlimited."
http://mobilenetworkcomparison.co.uk/reviews/three/#deals


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2011)

Its a shame GiffGaff don't seem to allow tethering, I was strongly considering switching to them but now Im not sure. Maybe I still will, and I'll get a MiFi from three for the odd occasions where I want mobile internet on my iPad. Carrying yet anther device around seems silly, but then so does draining the battery on the phone with tethering. Choices choices.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2011)

elbows said:


> Its a shame GiffGaff don't seem to allow tethering, I was strongly considering switching to them but now Im not sure.


I've been a-tethering on my deal with no problems.


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2011)

Well you might get away with it if used sparingly but they go on about this on their site, and also mention somewhere else that their goody bags are not for iPad use:



> *Is unlimited really unlimited?*
> The answer is yes, we are unlimited for personal mobile use - but not for commercial and automated use. Mobile Internet allowances exclude PC use and tethering.



However I note that they have just started offering data-only 'gigabits', which do allow tethering.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2011)

I was already using a gig a month before so all you can eat was really my only option given all the cloud stuff that's likely tone used!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2011)

Camera's nice, snappy and of course this screen is a real joy to view videos on (watched Kick Ass on my tube journey home today).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 17, 2011)

Forgot that I need to sort my Spofity out on the new phone, no matter syncing 150 tracks via 3G and not worrying about the data usage. Sweeeeet!


----------



## spacemonkey (Oct 17, 2011)

My iPhone4 contract runs out soon, got it early on an 18-month. The 4S isn't enough to tempt me, I would feel like a right chump upgrading when the 4 is more than enough for my needs.

I'm thinking of an all-you-can-eat data on some sort of sim-only deal. Any suggestions?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 17, 2011)

giff gaff?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 17, 2011)

spacemonkey said:


> My iPhone4 contract runs out soon, got it early on an 18-month. The 4S isn't enough to tempt me, I would feel like a right chump upgrading when the 4 is more than enough for my needs.
> 
> I'm thinking of an all-you-can-eat data on some sort of sim-only deal. Any suggestions?



I'd go sim only and with 3, others might suggest GiffGaff which I've heard is good (although I wouldn't get it as it uses O2's network and coverage isn't fantastic where I am). Yeah I wouldn't upgrade to the 4S if I had a 4, getting iOS5 would be a nice enough bump to it...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 18, 2011)

video shot with the 4S here: http://vimeo.com/30578363


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> video shot with the 4S here: http://vimeo.com/30578363


It's mighty impressive, but bear in mind it was shot by a professional film-maker and cut with Final Cut 7.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 18, 2011)

Yeah and there were some very obvious filters used from Final Cut to add that touch of professionalism about it. Id like to see that same film cut in iMovie.

That said, it's impressive that the filming device was all an iphone. It certainly does give any home camcorder a run for its money in daylight.


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Camera's nice, snappy and of course this screen is a real joy to view videos on (watched Kick Ass on my tube journey home today).


It's been reviewed favourably on Engadget, although with reservations about the battery life. Looking at the samples, it seems evenly matched with the S2.


> The iPhone 4S is a pleasure to shoot with. The camera is ready to capture its first image within a second of launch, and tapping to focus after recomposing is painless and speedy. With advanced options limited to a grid overlay and HDR shooting, its interface may be too simple for some, but third-party apps are available should you want a bit more control. The camera functions identically to its iPhone 4 predecessor, but its f/2.4 maximum aperture (compared to f/2.8 with the iPhone 4) means that you'll be able to snap higher quality photos in low light. Its image quality rivals many point and shoot cameras in most conditions, though if you tend to shoot in the dark, you'll want a dedicated camera with a more powerful flash.
> 
> Apple's iOS may offer one of the simplest camera interfaces, but it's by no means the most powerful. Want manual control over exposure, white balance and ISO sensitivity? The Galaxy S II, Nokia N8 and Amaze 4G let you do it all with just a few taps. Overall, we were most often pleased with photos we shot with the iPhone 4S, despite its lack of advanced features. Exposure and white balance were most accurate with Apple's finest, and images were plenty sharp on their own, though not as sharp as those from the Amaze 4G, which appears to add sharpening by default.
> 
> ...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 18, 2011)

editor said:


> It's mighty impressive, but bear in mind it was shot by a professional film-maker and cut with Final Cut 7.



Professional? Well I suppose he is the director, cameraman, cinematographer & editor of that particular piece. Some would call him a jack-of-all-trades who enjoys his art.

The fact that he edited & graded it in an application that costs a mere £199 only adds to the overall impressiveness.

_
_


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> Professional?


Yes, professional. He runs his own film production company.


> BEANPOLE PRODUCTIONS is a film production studio piloted by creative guru, Benjamin Dowie. Based in Willunga, South Australia, we are continually expanding our knowledge and creativity in the world of film. Our distinctly organic & honest style mixed with fine attention to detail and the ability to capture the mood & emotion in the simplest of things contribute to the unique works of Beanpole Productions.
> 
> Beanpole Productions produces complete projects; from concept, to shooting, through to post production and final delivery. While Creative Director Ben’s main focus is on cinematography and editing...


http://beanpole.com.au/about.html


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 18, 2011)

he's a _creative guru_ 

imho, a _professional film maker_ would at least have a credit on IMDB, but maybe my idea of professional is different to yours.


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> imho, a _professional film maker_ would at least have a credit on IMDB, but maybe my idea of professional is different to yours.


So if you shoot adverts or corporate videos for a living you're _not_ a professional? 

The point I was making was that this guy will have access to equipment and expertise that would be far beyond the realms of the average iPhone user (and that includes software costing a "mere" £199), and although his video is very impressive, it's hardly a fair representation of what most people can expect.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 18, 2011)

editor said:


> The point I was making was that this guy will have access to equipment and expertise that would be far beyond the realms of the average iPhone user (and that includes software costing a "mere" £199), and although his video is very impressive, it's hardly a fair representation of what most people can expect.



What sets it apart from the realms of the average iPhone user is the colour grading. There are no filters applied, he just used the stock 3-way FCP plug-in, which is pretty impressive in itself.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 18, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> video shot with the 4S here: http://vimeo.com/30578363



I read about that - all he did was add a colour filter. Love the depth of field on that little camera.


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> What sets it apart from the realms of the average iPhone user is the colour grading. There are no filters applied, he just used the stock 3-way FCP plug-in, which is pretty impressive in itself.


You think the average iPhone user is going to both own Final Cut and know how to use it - and be able to reproduce his photographic skills? LOL.

Like I said, it's an impressive showcase for the camera's quality but it is is no way representative of what most users will produce.

A skilled filmmaker can produce great results out of the shittiest cameras.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 18, 2011)

editor said:


> You think the average iPhone user is going to both own Final Cut and know how to use it - and be able to reproduce his photographic skills? LOL.



Did you actually read what I wrote? I said that it is his use of the FCP colour correction plug-in that sets his film apart from what the average iPhone user can expect, and as for your final point, you obviously plucked that out of your arse, but LOL away...



editor said:


> Like I said, it's an impressive showcase for the camera's quality but it is is no way representative of what most users will produce.



Who gives a fuck what most people will produce with it? we're talking about the _actual cameras_ technical abilities, not some subjective discussion on what is, or who makes, good or bad film.


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> Who gives a fuck what most people will produce with it?


Most people who are looking to make use of it, I would imagine.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2011)

Battery life so far is great, far better than any of my mates with other smartphones.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 18, 2011)

editor said:


> Most people who are looking to make use of it, I would imagine.



So you judge the usefulness of technical equipment on what _most people_ produce with it?

each to their own i suppose...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 18, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Battery life so far is great, far better than any of my mates with other smartphones.


Probably because it's new


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> So you judge the usefulness of technical equipment on what _most people_ produce with it?


This is a general thread about the iPhone, so yes, it would seem entirely sensible to point that the highly polished, edited and filtered example you posted up is of a quality that most people using the phone will be unlikely to attain.

Not sure why you're going on and on about it, really seeing as it's blindingly obvious, but then perhaps you live in a different world where you think regular consumers would view £199 for a program to edit phone clips as a negligible outlay.


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2011)

The dodgy link baiting iPhone articles continue apace. Despite being 100% wrong about the iPhone 4S, BGR are now running some pointless bit of fact-free fluff about the iPhone5. I can't be arsed to link to it.

"Rumors still suggest the iPhone 5 will be thinner, lighter and will have a teardrop form factor" insists the article. Sure. Because they really have the inside story on this.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 18, 2011)

editor said:


> This is a general thread about the iPhone, so yes, it would seem entirely sensible to point that the highly polished, edited and filtered example you posted up is of a quality that most people using the phone will be unlikely to attain.
> 
> Not sure why you're going on and on about it, really seeing as it's blindingly obvious, but then perhaps you live in a different world where you think regular consumers would view £199 for a program to edit phone clips as a negligible outlay.



what a ridiculous post.

The clip shows what the phone is capable of producing in the hands of someone savvy with a relatively cheap professional video editing application.

your _regular consumers_ will have to put a bit of effort in to achieve something similar, but why should that detract from the phones obvious capabilities?


----------



## Structaural (Oct 18, 2011)

I could do the same effect to a clip with Cinema FX (an iPhone 4 app) and then edit it in iMovie on the iPhone. It really isn't _that_ impressive. It looks like a DLSR because of the depth of field - which he has exaggerated by filming loads of stuff close up.


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> The clip shows what the phone is capable of producing in the hands of someone savvy with a relatively cheap professional video editing application.


And that's EXACTLY what I've already said.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 18, 2011)

editor said:


> And that's EXACTLY what I've already said.



Then we are in agreement, the video/film output of this phone when put through the correct workflow produces impressive results.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 18, 2011)

I dont really know what your all arguing about tbh.

For a phone its undoubtable it has excellent film quality, but he says (and its obvious to anyone who knows about film and editing) that he has used filters in final cut pro.

I'd like to see what it'd produce if he edited it with imovie for iphone


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Probably because it's new



That would be true if they hadn't just bought theirs in the last couple weeks also.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I dont really know what your all arguing about tbh.
> 
> For a phone its undoubtable it has excellent film quality, but he says (and its obvious to anyone who knows about film and editing) that he has used filters in final cut pro.
> 
> I'd like to see what it'd produce if he edited it with imovie for iphone



Yeah this one is lost on me...was thinking the same about imovie too!


----------



## Structaural (Oct 18, 2011)

What's Siri like Kid_E?
Useful? Gimmicky?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2011)

Structaural said:


> What's Siri like Kid_E?
> Useful? Gimmicky?



More novel than practical at the moment but I have found it's quicker to get it do things like reminders or calendar adding than tapping through screens and typing. Where it will come into it's own for me will be driving, being able to listen to people's texts and dictate a reply (dictation is something I'm going to check out for longer emails too) would be very useful. Finding it's quite accurate too, must be about 90-95% right I reckon even with my slight lisp it picks up on almost everything I say.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 18, 2011)

Cheers, dude. The calendar and diction aspects look most useful, I hardly get around to putting specific dates in my phone, even though I think I have...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 18, 2011)

Why did he showcase the phone's capabilities by using non-iphone software? It would've been much better using imovie for iphone.


----------



## kazza007 (Oct 18, 2011)

Had the 16gb 3gs on o2 for 2 years, need an upgrade. Most likely bypassing android this time round and going for a 4s and ridding of my 3gs.

Looking for a 16gb version, enough for my needs I think, is buying it outright cheapest option then?  Need at least 1gb data per month and know o2 are charging now. Don't really want to stay with o2 (or giffgaff) given orange appearing to have greater general coverage. Want to change my number too. Can I just stroll into Apple now and get one?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2011)

kazza007 said:


> Had the 16gb 3gs on o2 for 2 years, need an upgrade. Most likely bypassing android this time round and going for a 4s and ridding of my 3gs.
> 
> Looking for a 16gb version, enough for my needs I think, is buying it outright cheapest option then? Need at least 1gb data per month and know o2 are charging now. Don't really want to stay with o2 (or giffgaff) given orange appearing to have greater general coverage. Want to change my number too. Can I just stroll into Apple now and get one?



I walked into a 3 shop and walked out with a 64gig in black ten minutes later...not sure about the Apple store though.


----------



## kazza007 (Oct 18, 2011)

I;m not up on these things..so you can buy it outright without contract not necessarily from apple then.

When I get rid of my old phone, how would I transfer all the pics, music onto the new one, and how do I ensure all of the data is wiped securely off it?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2011)

kazza007 said:


> I;m not up on these things..so you can buy it outright without contract not necessarily from apple then.
> 
> When I get rid of my old phone, how would I transfer all the pics, music onto the new one, and how do I ensure all of the data is wiped securely off it?



Ah yeah I get ya now, yeah I *think* to get it unlocked you'd have to go via Apple...if you back up your data to iTunes now you simply plug your new iPhone in and let it sync or sync via iCloud if you back up to that.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 19, 2011)

Apparently I can upgrade my iphone4 to a 4s next month......... If i upgrade with o2 will they make me change tariff? I still have an unlimited data tariff from when I had the original iphone, and Ive managed to keep that tariff through getting an iphone 3g and an iphone 4.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2011)

Good question one of the reasons I left them is when my tariff ended they refused to give me an unlimited on my upgrade despite having that for my 3GS...

How much are they asking for the upgrade btw?


----------



## editor (Oct 19, 2011)

You've *got* to get an unlimited tariff with this phone, IMO.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 19, 2011)

editor said:


> You've *got* to get an unlimited tariff with this phone, IMO.


agreed, it's pointless otherwise


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2011)

I'd agree with that for a lot of usage patterns, not all though. I'm not very mobile so I've almost always got wifi available.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2011)

editor said:


> You've *got* to get an unlimited tariff with this phone, IMO.



Depends on the user. I know plenty of iPhone users who barely scrape 200mbs a month. And then there are people like me...data whores we call ourselves.


----------



## editor (Oct 19, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Depends on the user. I know plenty of iPhone users who barely scrape 200mbs a month. And then there are people like me...data whores we call ourselves.


But according to Three's own data, their *average* iPhone 4 user was consuming way over 1GB a month.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2011)

editor said:


> But according to Three's own data, their *average* iPhone 4 user was consuming way over 1GB a month.



There are four other major networks which most people would be on I'd wager (doesn't O2 still have the bulk of iPhone owners in the UK?)...


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 19, 2011)

well, i've decided to update to the iphone 4, as i predicted. just need to sort out my lappy so i can DL itunes to it, and sync the old phone, then do the annoying porting my number thing (moving from tmobile to orange).  the 4 will be a huge step up from my 3G, and the 4s didn't sound appealing enough, plus the extra data they need wouldn't have worked with a contract i can afford.


----------



## editor (Oct 19, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> There are four other major networks which most people would be on I'd wager (doesn't O2 still have the bulk of iPhone owners in the UK?)...


Why would their data usage be any different because of the network they're on?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2011)

editor said:


> Why would their data usage be any different because of the network they're on?



That's some lazy staticianing you're doing there. Somethings true on one thing means it's true on all things similar to it? I'm not assuming it's the case and would like to see some actual evidence rather than opinion on the matter tbh...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> well, i've decided to update to the iphone 4, as i predicted. just need to sort out my lappy so i can DL itunes to it, and sync the old phone, then do the annoying porting my number thing (moving from tmobile to orange). the 4 will be a huge step up from my 3G, and the 4s didn't sound appealing enough, plus the extra data they need wouldn't have worked with a contract i can afford.



The 4S *needs* the same amount as data as the 4...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 19, 2011)

The thing with data usage stats is that they're skewed massively by activity. If you don't download music or watch videos with your 3G, your usage is usually fairly small (mine always is, I barely use 250 meg the last time I checked). If you do, it goes way up. So the mean data usage is actually not very representative of what you could expect to allow for.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 19, 2011)

I  never maxed out my data limit, but it's obvious data is the new frontline for operators - the in-depth data usage monitor widget on ice cream sandwich is one tool I hoping Apple will nick next.


----------



## editor (Oct 19, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's some lazy staticianing you're doing there. Somethings true on one thing means it's true on all things similar to it?


The iPhone 4 remains the constant. Why would all iPhone owners use their phone in an entirely different way on every other network in the UK apart from Three?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2011)

editor said:


> The iPhone 4 remains the constant. Why would all iPhone owners use their phone in an entirely different way on every other network in the UK apart from Three?



Can you provide anything to back up your assertions?


----------



## editor (Oct 19, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The thing with data usage stats is that they're skewed massively by activity. If you don't download music or watch videos with your 3G, your usage is usually fairly small (mine always is, I barely use 250 meg the last time I checked). If you do, it goes way up. So the mean data usage is actually not very representative of what you could expect to allow for.


Thing is, more and more people are using their phones to view video/iPlayer etc., hence the massive increase in data usage. Across _all_ networks.


----------



## editor (Oct 19, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Can you provide anything to back up your assertions?


You're the one asserting that iPhone 4 users on the Three network somehow use their iPhones completely differently to every other iPhone user in the land, so I think you're the one that should be toddling off to find something to support this bizarre theory.

But let's start at the basics: why do you think a user on a, say, T-Mobile unlimited plan, would use their phone any differently to a Three user? Why would they consumer less data?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 19, 2011)

editor said:


> Thing is, more and more people are using their phones to view video/iPlayer etc., hence the massive increase in data usage. Across _all_ networks.


Yes, which I assume is why the mean has gone up. But I doubt many people actually use _that specific amount of data_ - it will be either lower or higher - and unless it's your first phone, or a big upgrade, you know what your behaviour is likely to be.

I would say incidentally that the general usage has gone up with increased smartphone take-up - older smartphone users tend to be naturally more cautious, since they've adjusted their habits in the past based on poor speeds, bad connections etc, where it wasn't worth even trying to look at a whole video on YouTube on a phone because it would crap out so many times. Newer users won't have had that.


----------



## editor (Oct 19, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yes, which I assume is why the mean has gone up. But I doubt many people actually use _that specific amount of data_ - it will be either lower or higher - and unless it's your first phone, or a big upgrade, you know what your behaviour is likely to be.


Of course. That's why Three referred to the amount of data used by the "average" iPhone customer.

I can't see why their average would be any different to any other iPhone user on any other network (unless they're forcibly restricted, of course).


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 19, 2011)

To be picky, I am fairly sure it is the average amount used by a customer, rather than the amount used by the average customer.

I doubt it is much different to other networks, no - I'm just saying it's not a good guide to go on to predict what somebody will actually use in practice.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 19, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> I never maxed out my data limit, but it's obvious data is the new frontline for operators - the in-depth data usage monitor widget on ice cream sandwich is one tool I hoping Apple will nick next.



There are loads of apps that do that?  Search for 'data monitor' in the app store.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 19, 2011)

Sunray said:


> There are loads of apps that do that? Search for 'data monitor' in the app store.


Thanks for that I've found a couple I'll give a try but the ice cream sandwich one shown at this morning's presentation was especially impressive.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2011)

Ouch!


----------



## Structaural (Oct 20, 2011)

Looks just like mine (happened 2 weeks ago)


----------



## Kanda (Oct 20, 2011)

This clearly means you should have bought a different phone, maybe a Samsung


----------



## Structaural (Oct 20, 2011)

Is that the one running 99 Flake? I'm holding out for Cider Lolly.


----------



## The Octagon (Oct 20, 2011)

Please, blatantly Calippo.


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2011)

I think it's fair to say that the iPhone 4S is one of the least durable smartphones about - certainly a lot, more fragile than the 3GS.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 20, 2011)

So just as fragile as the iPhone 4 has been for the last year or so...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 20, 2011)

Which was also a stupidly fragile phone


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Which was also a stupidly fragile phone


Indeed. The glass black on the iPhone 4/4S sure looks lovely but it's not the greatest practical idea.


> Though the iPhone 4 performed well with regard to reliability, it also appeared to be more accident-prone. Apple's newest smartphone is projected to have the highest accidental damage rate after 12 months: 13.8 percent. According to the study, the iPhone 4 has a higher rate of drop damage than other smartphones, possibly due to the iPhone 4's two sides of glass.
> 
> "The data seems to suggest that the likelihood of drop damage is directly proportional to the amount of glass on the device," the report noted. As the main cause of accidents, drops make up 77 percent of accident claims, according to the report.
> 
> http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._4_most_reliable_most_fragile_smartphone.html


----------



## Structaural (Oct 20, 2011)

I had a bumper on it, but a 'friend' in the pub tried it out on his oversized iPhone rip-off and broke it, this happened a week later. Luckily it's insured, I just have to do without the phone for 5 days. Can't do it, not until my internet is fixed.

Yeah big design flaw, but easily remedied with a cover/bumper. You can buy metal backs from ebay that are really easy to install (unlike the front glass). I fixed my 3GS broken screen myself but they've made the iPhone 4 much more difficult.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 20, 2011)

In the middle of trying to convince someone not to buy the iPhone 4S! Attempting to convince them to get a low level Android phone....


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 20, 2011)

ok - if i don't want my new iphone 4 to get all smashy-smashy, what's the best kind of cover?

on my 3G i have a flip cover, cos i was most worried about scratching the screen in my handbag... but the ones for the 4 seem to leave the corners quite exposed:





then there are shell cases that clip onto the back:






but some of them are rigid and some are rubbery - and of course they afford no protection to the screen.

so what style should i be looking for?


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 21, 2011)

You can buy screen protectors cheaply on EBay. Buy a pack with a few, cos it will take a few goes to get a good lay *no filth intended*


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 21, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> More novel than practical at the moment but I have found it's quicker to get it do things like reminders or calendar adding than tapping through screens and typing. Where it will come into it's own for me will be driving, being able to listen to people's texts and dictate a reply (dictation is something I'm going to check out for longer emails too) would be very useful. Finding it's quite accurate too, must be about 90-95% right I reckon even with my slight lisp it picks up on almost everything I say.




I was thinking the SIRI thing would be really handy whilst driving. MrD is a panicer & when I ask him to look summat up whilst driving, he can easily panic & refuse . . . . . SIRI sounds like my ideal driving partner . . . . . Bit of the bugger the SIRI phone will be his, cept I'll always have SIRI & him in the car at the same time


----------



## Sunray (Oct 21, 2011)

I've dropped mine loads of times,literally 10's of times, when getting out of my van onto the street, its broken just the once.  Much more durable than people make out.  I've also submerged it in water for a good 10 minutes.  Still going.

The back cost me 25 quid to replace and is a matter of just undoing a couple of screws and popping it off and putting the new on on.

The front on the other hand is more of a job, but an original Apple screen is only 50 quid these days.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 21, 2011)

Mine hit the floor about twice as hard as a drop, the wire from my headphones had got caught on my jacket while I was talking to my wife, went to put it in my inside pocket and it kind of pinged catapult-like around my arm and whipped out my hand. It's still completely functional, just can't read much.

Well annoying that they didn't allow Siri on iPhone 4 considering it's server based. I hear a jailbreak solution has already been done.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 21, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ouch!


I'd be kinda surprised if an apple store wouldn't replace that.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 21, 2011)

The unofficial policy of discretionary replacement of user-damaged phones no longer exists.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/11...-free-replacement-policy-for-damaged-iphones/


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 21, 2011)

DIMPLES1 said:


> You can buy screen protectors cheaply on EBay. Buy a pack with a few, cos it will take a few goes to get a good lay *no filth intended*


but surely they only protect against scratches?


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 21, 2011)

When I'm out and about and being rough then I use an OtterBox, but for day to day stuff I use a bumper (given away free at the hight of arial-gate).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2011)

Bloody hell this thing is great for games! They boot up and run SO fucking fast!


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 22, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> but surely they only protect against scratches?




Yeah.

I have a cheap plastic case, also off eBay which covers the sides & back & then screen protesters on the screen.

Both were only a couple of quid.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2011)

Bought my first case for a phone this week for it, actually makes it a lot more gripable and doesn't actually add that more bulk. Means less chances of scratches etc so when I decide to sell it the resale value is maintained nicely...


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The unofficial policy of discretionary replacement of user-damaged phones no longer exists.
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/11...-free-replacement-policy-for-damaged-iphones/



Fairly reasonable to me, if its faulty they will just replace it anyway.  If you break it twice they will replace it. Better to have it written down than rely on a possible fix depending on who you see and what mood they are in.

Often forgotten in the 'phone war', Apples customer service.   Its really is quite startling at times.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 23, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Fairly reasonable to me, if its faulty they will just replace it anyway. If you break it twice they will replace it. Better to have it written down than rely on a possible fix depending on who you see and what mood they are in.
> 
> Often forgotten in the 'phone war', Apples customer service. Its really is quite startling at times.



Good point, ime and from knowing others who've used it it's almost the stuff of legend.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Often forgotten in the 'phone war', Apples customer service. Its really is quite startling at times.


Shame my own experience was so poor with them, really. I really expected more.

Mind you, they were better than Sony.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 23, 2011)

Jesus that's low, EVERYONE is better than Sony!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 25, 2011)

I feel quite put out that I can't get the female Siri voice that was in all the ads without switching to US English - which affects the voice recognition quite dramatically. Instead, UK English users are stuck with a male voice that sounds like it comes from local radio.

Hopefully the next OS update will include the option to change the output voice - you can with OS X speech after all. Until then I may use the Australian English setting, which understands me reasonably well and also has the comedy value of being a voice synthesiser with a pseudo-Australian accent.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 25, 2011)

LOVING the battery life on this thing, get home from work each day with easily 40% left even with moderate browsing in the day and a deluge of notifications pinging every few minutes!


----------



## elbows (Oct 25, 2011)

Initial indications on whether Siri slightly changes the world of gadgets again, based only on the 2 people I know so far with an iPhone 4S is that yes, its changing their usage habits in a number of ways so far. One of them is bothering to put reminders into a device for the first time ever. The other is sending me far more text messages now that they don't have to type them.

Again, regardless of whether other devices and apps already offered similar functionality in the past, a crucial factor that makes Apple more likely to succeed with similar stuff seems to be simply that they promote the feature so much that vastly greater numbers of people actually find out that the feature exists.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 25, 2011)

Yep, Apple putting it front and centre of their marketing of the new phone will be a big factor in whether it's successful.


----------



## elbows (Oct 28, 2011)

The BBC have picked up on Siri's problems understanding scottish accents.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15475989


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2011)

I still find it a bit weird that after such a long wait for the new iPhone, it's main selling point isn't an Apple innovation, but some third-party software they've bought.

After hearing someone using it in the cafe today, I can say with some certainty that Siri won't be too popular with people within earshot of people using it.


----------



## elbows (Oct 28, 2011)

editor said:


> I still find it a bit weird that after such a long wait for the new iPhone, it's main selling point isn't an Apple innovation, but some third-party software they've bought.
> 
> After hearing someone using it in the cafe today, I can say with some certainty that Siri won't be too popular with people within earshot of people using it.



I don't think Apple care about the origins of the innovation, they probably think that by integrating it with various other useful features of their phone in a clear and obvious way, that counts as fresh innovation which moves human gadget usage behaviour onwards in typical Apple fashion. Time will tell whether this actually happens or whether its a dud.

Was the cafe user pressing the mic icon and using it from a distance, or raising the phone to their ear? Im hoping people will learn to do the latter in certain social situations.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2011)

elbows said:


> Was the cafe user pressing the mic icon and using it from a distance, or raising the phone to their ear? Im hoping people will learn to do the latter in certain social situations.


Hands free with the robot voice at first, unfortunately, but even when she started using it next to her face it somehow seemed a bit more annoying than someone talking loudly on their phone.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 28, 2011)

I did lol the other day when I was in an Apple Store  and there was an Apple Masterclass on the big screen with this guy hyping it to the max - then when he went to demo it - it wouldn't work on wifi, or 3G.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 28, 2011)

There's an app called Dragon Diction that uses the same system and server as Siri, if people want to check it out. I tried out antidisestablishmentarianism which it got but it balked at floccinaucipilification, giving me 'Lucky enough to uni a qualification'


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 28, 2011)

Siri is well polished compared to Dragons Diction and she's still in bata.

I don't think Siri will end up being another facetime and if I had it on my iP4 I'd be using it for reminders/appointments/text/timings.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 28, 2011)

elbows said:


> The BBC have picked up on Siri's problems understanding scottish accents.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15475989



Yep a friend posted it has a prob with her lisp too...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 28, 2011)

editor said:


> I still find it a bit weird that after such a long wait for the new iPhone, it's main selling point isn't an Apple innovation, but some third-party software they've bought.
> 
> After hearing someone using it in the cafe today, I can say with some certainty that Siri won't be too popular with people within earshot of people using it.



Really? Wasn't iTunes some third part software too originally? 

Don't have any issue with it myself, plenty of companies buy innovation, hell so much so that there's a start up joke which goes 'how does your biz plan make it your idea attractive enough for Google to buy you?'


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 28, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> Siri is well polished compared to Dragons Diction and she's still in bata.
> 
> I don't think Siri will end up being another facetime and if I had it on my iP4 I'd be using it for reminders/appointments/text/timings.



I've used both and so far Siri pisses on DD from a great height!


----------



## Structaural (Oct 28, 2011)

Dragon is just the boring diction part though (and they both use Nuance). http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20061241-248.html?tag=mncol;txt


----------



## Structaural (Oct 28, 2011)

Apple are talking about making a Siri enabled TV. As if arguing over the remote isn't enough, now we can all shout at the telly.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> I don't think Siri will end up being another facetime and if I had it on my iP4 I'd be using it for reminders/appointments/text/timings.


My phone already does this and to be honest I've barely used it. I've maybe sent three texts in total.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 28, 2011)

editor said:


> My phone already does this and to be honest I've barely used it. I've maybe sent three texts in total.


As someone with reduced vision it's the integration I find appealing - I know there's various Apps out their but most still require a lot of fidgeting about.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> As someone with reduced vision it's the integration I find appealing - I know there's various Apps out their but most still require a lot of fidgeting about.


If you've got poor eyesight it'll obviously be useful, but  find something like SwiftKey more of an innovation in everyday use. That lets you quickly type out messages, often only needing one keystroke per word.
http://thenextweb.com/apps/2011/09/...rom-your-blog-gives-you-stats-on-your-typing/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 28, 2011)

Heh I assume parental controls will allow it to lock on to one voice.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 28, 2011)

editor said:


> My phone already does this and to be honest I've barely used it. I've maybe sent three texts in total.



You're not a driver I assume...everyone one I've spoken to about this says they'd love it!


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 29, 2011)

MrD got his new phone on Monday, but has been treating it like an unborn baby til his otterbox arrived today & now I'm third wheel to his new wife SIRI. Well not quite, but he had a lot of fun playing with her this morning 

It doesn't appear to understand his "mobile".

Had a go on his camera earlier & it is far, far better than the camera on my 4. Much much faster shutter speed. Clearer picture on screen. A lot of my photo's in this room at night have an orange glow, this doesn't appear to be any. 

Just need to work out how to upload now .  ..  Off to iOS 5 thread.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2011)

Looks like some folks are suffering battery life problems:


> In a thread titled 'iPhone 4s Battery Life?' on Apple's official support forums, there are already thousands of posts with unofficial test results and theories as to why the iPhone 4S's battery life isn't up to snuff. And there are more than 100,000 views from users trying to find an answer. It seems like not even Apple knows what's going on just yet.
> 
> A couple of days ago we reported on a story in The Guardian that Apple's senior engineers had been contacting users complaining about battery life issues. One user in particular had found their iPhone 4S battery draining in excess of ten percent every hour, even when in standby mode with features like Siri and location services completely deactivated. And after asking them detailed questions about their usage, an Apple engineer had them sync and install a special file that would presumably provide more details about the problem.
> 
> ...


Here's what the Guardian thinks might be causing the problem:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/oct/29/iphone-4s-battery-location-services-bug
And here's the best user comments:


> Surely there's someone Apple can sue over this, Samsung, Google, Honda, whoever.





> No doubt they will release an update which changes the displaying of the bars a bit for power status. Problem solved.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2011)

Apparently it's an issue that can be fixed by turning off the over seas auto time adjust and Apple engineers are in touch some owners that had this problem. Personally my battery has been fantastic, and the people I know haven't had any issue. Something tells me this will be fixed pretty quickly but that won't stop the usual suspects trying to turn this into another antennae-gate!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 30, 2011)

Mine certainly doesn't do anything like that. It's not noticeably better than the 3GS to be honest, but it's certainly no worse (turning off all the stupid notification services that I'd left on has helped as well - yeah, like I want Foursquare sending me notifications).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Mine certainly doesn't do anything like that. It's not noticeably better than the 3GS to be honest, but it's certainly no worse (turning off all the stupid notification services that I'd left on has helped as well - yeah, like I want Foursquare sending me notifications).



That's interesting, mine is exceptionally better than the 3GS I or any of my friends had...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 30, 2011)

Note that I recently got a brand new 3GS from the Apple Store, so mine had a brand new battery.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Note that I recently got a brand new 3GS from the Apple Store, so mine had a brand new battery.



Fair enough, one had their 3GS swapped for a new one a 6 weeks ago and hasn't had the same level of battery.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently it's an issue that can be fixed by turning off the over seas auto time adjust and Apple engineers are in touch some owners that had this problem


That doesn't seem to fix it according to some users on the Guardian's site.


> No, this definitely isn't the problem. This was suggested about a week ago, so I switched it off then. Almost everything that could use the network is switched off (including setting time zone) and the battery is still terrible. For example, it is now down to 1% even though it was fully charged (and not used much since) yesterday evening.


----------



## Winot (Oct 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently it's an issue that can be fixed by turning off the over seas auto time adjust



Not really a solution though, is it, even if it solves the battery problem. That's a pretty essential feature if you  travel into different time zones and want appointment times to stay the same.


----------



## elbows (Oct 30, 2011)

It sounds very much like there are multiple different reasons why some users are experiencing battery woes, so what fixes the problem for some will not help others. Users will discover a number of different usage patterns that cause battery woes, and Apple will find some culprits and fix them with a point release.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2011)

That battery life issue certainly seems to be affecting a fair few people if this poll is anything to go by:
http://mashable.com/2011/10/31/iphone-battery-problem/


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2011)

Oh yes Im quite sure there is a real problem, triggered by one or more usage patterns, device settings or whatever.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 31, 2011)

It's a question of how wide spread it is? Has it reached the level of needing a mass recall?


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's a question of how wide spread it is? Has it reached the level of needing a mass recall?


Well, you can be sure Apple won't be telling you any time soon


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's a question of how wide spread it is? Has it reached the level of needing a mass recall?



It sounds far more likely to be a software issue than a hardware one, and so I don't presently anticipate a recall being necessary, just a software update.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 31, 2011)

elbows said:


> It sounds far more likely to be a software issue than a hardware one, and so I don't presently anticipate a recall being necessary, just a software update.



Good point. I guess those that don't like Apple will have a few more days of glee however until that update comes...


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Good point. I guess those that don't like Apple will have a few more days of glee however until that update comes...


That's a really strange thing to say, you know.


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2011)

It could be far more than a few days before there is a fix, difficult to say but Apple don't usually rush these things. Depends at least in part on the specific causes of the problems. If all users were up in arms about it then the pressure would be on for a quicker fix, but the couple of people I know with the 4S, and a bunch of people who now have iOS 5 on their older iPhone 4's, have not expressed any battery woe to me so at least some users are not crying out for a fix.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2011)

elbows said:


> It could be far more than a few days before there is a fix, difficult to say but Apple don't usually rush these things.


What generally makes it worse is Apple's traditional reluctance to officially even acknowledge that any kind of problem exists.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 31, 2011)

Maybe they want to get to the bottom of it and find out the issue... But nah, probably not, they'll be counts about it .. clearly..


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Maybe they want to get to the bottom of it and find out the issue... But nah, probably not, they'll be counts about it .. clearly..


It doesn't take much to say, "Hey, it looks like some of you who have bought our hugely expensive phones have encountered a problem. Be assured we're looking into it as a priority and will get back to you as soon as possible."

There is, after all, a *168 page* thread on their own forums about it, plus huge press coverage.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 31, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Maybe they want to get to the bottom of it and find out the issue... But nah, probably not, they'll be counts about it .. clearly..



Lol yeah well Apple are always held to a mystifyingly high standard that their detractors never apply to their own beloved corporations. 

(Cue predictable responses to this post)


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol yeah well Apple are always held to a mystifyingly high standard that their detractors never apply to their own beloved corporations.


You were quick to start a thread here about a potential HTC security exploit, yet they made a statement within 24 hours of it becoming public. Why can't Apple do the same? After all, the thread on their own forums has had over 2,500 replies and 165,000 page views.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 31, 2011)

Security vulnerabilities are obvious as fuck and generally proved quite easily. Hundreds of scenarios of battery problems are harder to drill down on and come out with a fix. 

I'm stating the obvious, not defending anyone.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 31, 2011)

Not saying that there isn't a problem but just reminds me of antenna gate.. Where I don't actually know anyone that suffered it. The press played it out like it affected everyone.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Not saying that there isn't a problem but just reminds me of antenna gate.. Where I don't actually know anyone that suffered it. The press played it out like it affected everyone.


Have you actually read the Apple forum thread?

It's already had 165,594 views and 2,524 posts, and there's loads of people posting in tech blogs complaining about suffering the same issue. If Apple got off their high horse and just said, "Hey, there's a problem and we're working on it," there'd be no reason for the press to "play it out."

You'll find a similar sentiment being repeated all over the Apple thread, btw.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 31, 2011)

No I haven't read it. How many have they sold btw?


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2011)

Kanda said:


> No I haven't read it. How many have they sold btw?


Not sure what that's got to do with it. What difference does that make to the growing reports of problems with battery life?


----------



## Kanda (Oct 31, 2011)

editor said:


> Not sure what that's got to do with it. What difference does that make to the growing reports of problems with battery life?



You say: growing reports. That's not 2,500 people on the Apple forums with the issue, that's 2,500 posts. Reports rising elsewhere I guess?

4 million units sold (quick Google). Can't be arsed to work out percentages... It's too sketchy to even try to. As I said, reminds me of antenna gate.

So.. Whilst there may be a problem (as I said above), I'm not going to whip myself up into a frenzy about or really expect a response until some research has been done.

I'll let others do that ;0)

I'll probably read the threads tomorrow, bit late now but it's obvious there's plenty in iOS5 that can ruin your battery quickly, depends if you leave it vanilla and leave most things switched on I suppose.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2011)

Kanda said:


> As I said, reminds me of antenna gate.


But Antennagate turned out to be a real issue for some users though, and it was an issue that Apple was eventually forced to address despite denying it for ages ("you're holding it wrong" etc).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 31, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Not saying that there isn't a problem but just reminds me of antenna gate.. Where I don't actually know anyone that suffered it. The press played it out like it affected everyone.



The press and the sycophantic android loving blogs too. To this day not one of the many iPhone 4 users I've known had ever experienced it. But you know "Insanely small number of iPhone 4 users with antennae problems, millions unaffected." doesn't pull in the traffic for your average link bait article!


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2011)

166386 page views and 2,534 replies on the Apple thread, and 64% of respondents are reporting issues in Mashable's poll now (1,200 votes), so I guess a few people are bothered by this.


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2011)

FYI, it's a similar story on Gizmodo's poll too:


> Good. It lasts all day 26.48% (4,198 votes)
> Fine. It lasts most of the day 19.97% (3,166 votes)
> Kind of crappy. It lasts five hours or so 25.85% (4,098 votes)
> What the heck?! It's dead in less than five hours 27.69% (4,390 votes)
> Total Votes: 15,852


http://gizmodo.com/5854510/whats-going-on-with-the-iphone-4s-battery


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2011)

editor said:


> 166386 page views and 2,534 replies on the Apple thread, and 64% of respondents are reporting issues in Mashable's poll now (1,200 votes), so I guess a few people are bothered by this.



Over 4 million iPhone 4S' sold and you think 2300 posts are the end of the world? You never did well at maths at school innit?


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Over 4 million iPhone 4S' sold and you think 2300 posts are the end of the world? You never did well at maths at school innit?


I can see you're starting up your infantile nonsense again now, so I'll leave you to it. But deep down, I'm sure even you understand that what you see on line can often just be the tip of an iceberg.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 1, 2011)

editor said:


> But Antennagate turned out to be a real issue for some users though, and it was an issue that Apple was eventually forced to address despite denying it for ages ("you're holding it wrong" etc).



any chance you can remind us as to what Apple actually did to address that?


----------



## Kanda (Nov 1, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> any chance you can remind us as to what Apple actually did to address that?



http://gizmodo.com/5589336/apple-antennagate-and-why-its-time-to-move-on



> Apple's done the right thing, for now, by fixing the iPhone's signal display, which might be the best of any smartphone—even if it's a little ridiculous that this is what it took for that to happen. And the free cases do ameliorate the antenna problem, even if they don't fix its cause. Maybe, as Jean-Louis Gassee suggested, it should've been framed as a tradeoff from the very beginning. Informed consumers, radical transparency, crisis averted. Everyone would've talked about how much they love their iPhone _anyway_ from the very beginning.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2011)

editor said:


> I can see you're starting up your infantile nonsense again now, so I'll leave you to it. But deep down, I'm sure even you understand that what you see on line can often just be the tip of an iceberg.



You're talking to someone who's on their third Xbox, I know what mass product problem looks like and 2300 odd people out of FOUR million ain't it! You're infantile hatred toward Apple (fig leaf of owning a 3GS for a few weeks a couple years back aside of course) is patently clear given your chosen lack of perspective over this issue.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 1, 2011)

Apparently Apple engineers have been contacting people with problems to try get to the bottom of it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/oct/28/iphone-4s-battery-apple-engineers

Having played with the g/f's, I reckon this isn't far wrong: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/oct/29/iphone-4s-battery-location-services-bug

iOS5 more than likely to blame at a guess, I have an iPhone 4 and so does the guy I work with, we noticed battery dropping more after the upgrade and carefully went through which apps could do what...


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You're infantile hatred toward Apple (fig leaf of owning a 3GS for a few weeks a couple years back aside of course)...


Why do you keep posting up lies? I owned an iPhone 3GS for SIX MONTHS - as well you know -  and paid for it with my own money, too.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 1, 2011)

This is exceedingly tedious now. I wish you two could do this in private.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 1, 2011)




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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2011)

Crispy said:


> This is exceedingly tedious now. I wish you two could do this in private.



He lies about and misrepresents others all the time and yet it remains a private problem? Give me a break...


----------



## Crispy (Nov 1, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> He lies about and misrepresents others all the time and yet it remains a private problem? Give me a break...


And you continue to post deliberately provocative posts like


Kid_Eternity said:


> Good point. I guess those that don't like Apple will have a few more days of glee however until that update comes...





Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol yeah well Apple are always held to a mystifyingly high standard that their detractors never apply to their own beloved corporations.
> (Cue predictable responses to this post)


You know exactly what responses your passive-aggressive posts will get, yet you make them anyway. Winding up editor on apple threads is a piece of piss. There's no honour or merit in it. Please, for the sake of the whole tech forum, just ignore him and don't provoke him. Please.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 1, 2011)

Structaural said:


>


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 1, 2011)

Some of us enjoy the heated discussion, by the way.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 1, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You know exactly what responses your passive-aggressive posts will get, yet you make them anyway. Winding up editor on apple threads is a piece of piss. There's no honour or merit in it. Please, for the sake of the whole tech forum, just ignore him and don't provoke him. Please.



So basically, let him troll his own forums? (mainly the Apple ones?)


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2011)

Kanda said:


> So basically, let him troll his own forums? (mainly the Apple ones?)


You clearly have no idea what trolling actually is. Posting up relevant, on-topic and sometimes critical comments about Apple, or linking to contemporary news items about Apple on a thread all about Apple is *not* trolling.

If you want Apple threads where no adverse counterpoints are allowed and all criticism of their ethics and business practices is silenced, then I suggest you sign up to some fanboy site or another.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 1, 2011)

What, like some of the feedback theads on these boards and XenForo then, where you claim that further comments aren't helpful?

By the same measure your continued posting on these kind of these thread isn't helpful, particularly as you, the posters/mods here and most of the western world can predict the likely effect of your interventions on all things Apple. Can we have a trial of an indefinite period without your input on these threads to see how things would pan out without you?


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2011)

tarannau said:


> What, like some of the feedback theads on these boards and XenForo then, where you claim that further comments aren't helpful?


WTF have the XenForo feedback threads got to do with this?


----------



## tarannau (Nov 1, 2011)

Call it an appeal to your better side and a loathing of double standards. If on topic contributions on a feedback forum of the board aren't appropriate or welcomed, then it seems a small step to request the same of the board's editor on a similarly heated subject matter


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 1, 2011)

I want a broad spectrum of opinion about Apple on an Apple thread. I find nothing disruptive about two people arguing over the merits of the company or its products - as long as it's relevant to the thread as a whole. Which I think it is.


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## elbows (Nov 1, 2011)

Although Im sometimes part of the problem, I've tried in the past to appeal to both sides, I've pleaded, I've begged, It did no good. I don't like to give up, but Im strongly considering ceasing all activity on the tech sub forums because its just depressing watching people soil themselves, and going out of their way to give the impression of having no self-awareness at all. You aren't being clever, you aren't winning, you are completely eroding any respect I had for you. Humanity at its most ludicrous.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 1, 2011)

FWIW I don't mind a bit of a robust debate on the subject either. But that requires a little bit of candid honesty on both sides, not repeated 'fanboi' slurs and continual digs whilst claiming that it's merely about 'adverse counterpoints' and not at all about provoking a reaction or showing unbalanced distaste, oh no sir. It's a bit of an unrewarding environment to discuss things in tbh


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 1, 2011)

To be honest I find it more disruptive that the topic of conversation has now shifted away from the iphone 4s and onto whether or not two people arguing abut it is useful or not. People like to rant about stuff they're passionate about. As long as it stays on topic and doesn't get too personal, what's the harm?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 1, 2011)

I for one love the editor vs k_e show. The level of denial on show is exquisite. It's one of the main reasons I come on here, these days.


----------



## elbows (Nov 1, 2011)

skyscraper101 said:


> what's the harm?



I guess the only real harm would be if it drove lots of people away from participating in these threads. I don't think there is any way to measure that, since the vocal few (myself included) cannot be assumed to be indicative of wider reality. If some people enjoy it then who am I to appeal against the continuation of people's entertainment. And I contribute my own kind of tedium to a variety of threads Im sure.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 1, 2011)

Often drives me away, and I'm on the upper end of the "interested in mobile tech" bell curve I suspect.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 1, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Often drives me away, and I'm on the upper end of the "interested in mobile tech" bell curve I suspect.



It's made me less interested. I'll get accused of being a fanboi due to a few purchases I made 2 years ago, or when I try be rational (2,500 complaints against 4 mill sold) etc etc etc ... it goes on... and on... or the reality distortion field that actually happens here with some people...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2011)

Kanda said:


> It's made me less interested. I'll get accused of being a fanboi due to a few purchases I made 2 years ago, or when I try be rational (2,500 complaints against 4 mill sold) etc etc etc ... it goes on... and on... or the reality distortion field that actually happens here with some people...



Indeed like I said the problem is the Editor not any of us...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2011)

Anyway...had the 4S for just over two weeks and used 2.2 gigs of data!

All you can eat data is fucking sweet!!


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2011)

Kanda said:


> It's made me less interested. I'll get accused of being a fanboi due to a few purchases I made 2 years ago, or when I try be rational (2,500 complaints against 4 mill sold) etc etc etc ... it goes on... and on...


How often have you been "accused" of being a "fanboi" here and by whom?


----------



## Kanda (Nov 1, 2011)

editor said:


> How often have you been "accused" of being a "fanboi" here and by whom?



Quite a few times. By you.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Quite a few times. By you.


You're deluded. Search and apologise, please.

And then please get back on topic. Ta.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 2, 2011)

ha! yeah right!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> So basically, let him troll his own forums? (mainly the Apple ones?)



It's the usual blame the victim crap, you can't post anything at all unless the Editor likes it or you'll be accused of winding him up. Bullshit. The editor is a troll. Simples.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> You're deluded. Search and apologise, please.
> 
> And then please get back on topic. Ta.



Well hello Mr Pot.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> ha! yeah right!!


No, please. I positively _insist!_
Go to search, type in username "editor" and "fanboi" and then try and find where I've supposedly called you a fanboi "quite a few times."

Or you could just save yourself further embarrassment, say 'sorry' and then get this thread back on topic.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's the usual blame the victim crap, you can't post anything at all unless the Editor likes it or you'll be accused of winding him up. Bullshit. The editor is a troll. Simples.


Please stop this pointlessly disruptive behaviour, and please keep all your personal observations about me to yourself from now on. Thanks.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> No, please. I positively _insist!_
> Go to search, type in username "editor" and "fanboi" and then try and find where I've supposedly called you a fanboi "quite a few times."
> 
> Or you could just save yourself further embarrassment, say 'sorry' and then get this thread back on topic.



*reality distortion field*


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> *reality distortion field*


Don't worry I looked for you! The fact is that I've never, ever called you a "fanboi." Not once. Never, ever! So, let's get your apology out of the way and then we can get back on topic.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> Don't worry I looked for you! The fact is that I've never, ever called you a "fanboi." Not once. Never, ever! So, let's get your apology out of the way and then we can get back on topic.



You sure about that?




			
				editor said:
			
		

> Kanda's proved what a sad Apple fanboy he is.



link


----------



## tarannau (Nov 2, 2011)

FFS, talk about proving the point Ed. Dismissive, delusional and frankly wrong.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 2, 2011)

He'll come back and argue the different spellings now


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 2, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed like I said the problem is the Editor not any of us...



You all deliberately wind him up. And in your case, just as much as he winds you up. It's the perfect symbiotic relationship. If one or other of you gave it up, your world would pale a little.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 2, 2011)

Found another one:



editor said:


> Oy fanboy! You don't even know how much the new iPhone costs yet!


 Link


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 2, 2011)

Yours, no. K_e's. Yes.


----------



## gabi (Nov 2, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I for one love the editor vs k_e show. The level of denial on show is exquisite. It's one of the main reasons I come on here, these days.



I agree. Editor's presence on any Apple thread should never be discouraged. it's pure comedy, reminiscent of the 9/11 threads of yore


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> You all deliberately wind him up. And in your case, just as much as he winds you up. It's the perfect symbiotic relationship. If one or other of you gave it up, your world would pale a little.



That's bullshit, you're talking out of your arse again. I stopped posting anything remotely Apple oriented a number of times and he still trolled. Once, in one such period, I mentioned how nice some microsoft thing was and he started going on about Mac OSX despite not one person mentioning it! The guy is a troll, trying to act like its some duality is nonsense.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2011)

gabi said:


> I agree. Editor's presence on any Apple thread should never be discouraged. it's pure comedy, reminiscent of the 9/11 threads of yore



You're right about his obsessive behavior being like truthers for sure!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 2, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's bullshit, you're talking out of your arse again. I stopped posting anything remotely Apple oriented a number of times and he still trolled. Once, in one such period, I mentioned how nice some microsoft thing was and he started going on about Mac OSX despite not one person mentioning it! The guy is a troll, trying to act like its some duality is nonsense.



Of course he's a troll. But for every Android thread he posts about improved market share or the like, you post one for Apple. You've started about 6 billion Apple threads over the last couple of months! Like I said, I enjoy the feud, but you clearly both enjoy it or you wouldn't keep it up at such a pace. 

Whether you're perfectly evenly matched in terms of tit for tat, I don't know, but you post plenty of things aimed at getting a rise out of him. That's undeniable.

And I love it. Don't go changin'.


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> Don't worry I looked for you! The fact is that I've never, ever called you a "fanboi." Not once. Never, ever! So, let's get your apology out of the way and then we can get back on topic.



Are you going to apologise about this one now that evidence has been presented?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 2, 2011)

I predict conspicuous silence for at least three more pages of this thread.

Never apologise. Never back down.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Found another one:
> 
> Link


1. That doesn't use the word "fanboi" and - embarassingly for you - that is three and a half years old!
The other example is of a similar vintage. I have never called you a "fanboi" as you insist. You made that up.
2. Two examples in ten years do not add up to "_quite a few times_" no matter how hard you try and spin it.

Even if we go along with your spelling change, I still haven't called you any kind of fanboy in well over three years, which makes your claim look rather silly.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

gabi said:


> I agree. Editor's presence on any Apple thread should never be discouraged. it's pure comedy, reminiscent of the 9/11 threads of yore


Sometimes it really does feels like arguing with truthers, to be honest. Post up any kind of criticism of their technological deity, and bizarre personal attacks inevitably follow. In the case of KE, I put up with personal attacks from him several times a day now, and very rarely respond in kind.

If I post up a link to a non-positive story about Apple from a well regarded news source, it'll be described as "trolling" with a few fellow fans quick to join into have a pop. The idea seems to be that by trying to belittle the person, the nasty story might go away.

It's really weird to be honest. Quite bullying at times too.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> He'll come back and argue the different spellings now


Tell me where you got your time machine!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 2, 2011)

In fairness to ed, his trolling of Apple fans is largely fact-based. The carefully timed deployment of truth bombs. Pow!


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> It's made me less interested. *I'll get accused of being a fanboi due to a few purchases I made 2 years ago,* or when I try be rational (2,500 complaints against 4 mill sold) etc etc etc ... it goes on... and on... or the reality distortion field that actually happens here with some people...


Seeing as it's been proved that you have never been called a "fanboi" by me and even the "fanboy" spelling hasn't been used against you since 2008, could you make sense of your quote above please?


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> He'll come back and argue the different spellings now


Quite rightly so. I don't make a habit of going around calling people by that stupid name. You made that up.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> In fairness to ed, his trolling of Apple fans is largely fact-based. The carefully timed deployment of truth bombs. Pow!


If 'trolling' is going to be redefined as "providing timely, accurate and well sourced news stories adding to the full story about Apple," then yes, I'm guilty as charged.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

elbows said:


> Are you going to apologise about this one now that evidence has been presented?


My statement was entirely accurate. Read it again.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> Seeing as it's been proved that you have never been called a "fanboi" by me and even the "fanboy" spelling hasn't been used against you since 2008, could you make sense of your quote above please?



So I got my dates wrong when I said 2 years... You have called me it, more than once, in whatever incarnation of the same poxy word... Fact. I don't really give a shit... you're looking a bit  bonkers here though


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> So I got my dates wrong when I said 2 years... You have called me it, more than once, in whatever incarnation of the same poxy word... Fact. I don't really give a shit... you're looking a bit bonkers here though


You're the one that's been reduced to searching for variants of a word just to prove that I used it against you "quite a few times" in recent times.

And that frantic searching has only proved that I haven't, and that you were wrong, so an apology would be in order. And then we can all move on, like I suggested many posts ago.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 2, 2011)

Not a chance lol. You insisted I search, I couldn't be bothered last night and someone else found it.. then I had a quick look this morning.. hardly frantic...

You're arguing the difference between 'fanboy' and 'fanboi' .. really??? And demanding an apology? Hilarious, you're out doing yourself on this one


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> You're the one that's been reduced to searching for variants of a word just to prove that I used it against you "quite a few times" in recent times.
> 
> And that frantic searching has only proved that I haven't, and that you were wrong, so an apology would be in order. And then we can all move on, like I suggested many posts ago.



To say you are pushing your luck, soiling yourself in a bubble of delusion, would probably be an understatement. A joke, nothing but a joke, congratulations.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Not a chance lol. You insisted I search, I couldn't be bothered last night and someone else found it.. then I had a quick look this morning.. hardly frantic...


You're going on a bit now. Looking a bit bonkers, as you might say.


----------



## gabi (Nov 2, 2011)

does anyone remember what the actual argument is about here? im lost.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> You're going on a bit now. Looking a bit bonkers, as you might say.



I'm happy to leave it and sit back and laugh. Have a good day


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

gabi said:


> does anyone remember what the actual argument is about here? im lost.


Elbows said something about bubbles of delusion rising from the soil or something. Maybe it's turned into a sci-fi epic.


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2011)

Sorry about that, I got a bit carried away by the new depths (or heights, depending on taste etc) this stuff has reached.

Mind you at least I found it funny for the first time in ages, previously it was tedious to me but when stretched to absurd levels it does have a certain entertainment value to it.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> If 'trolling' is going to be redefined as "providing timely, accurate and well sourced news stories adding to the full story about Apple," then yes, I'm guilty as charged.



I think the 'trolling' label comes from your motivation for your regular (and undoubtedly accurate, well sourced) news stories. You're doing it because a) you don't like Apple (understandable) b) because you don't like the fact that a corporation has fans (also understandable) but mainly c) because you enjoy that it winds people up. (also understandable, everyone loves winding people up)

I don't think you're necessarily wrong to do as you do, but I do think self-righteous claims of innocence do come across as a little odd when combined with the sheer volume of updates you post that are less favourable towards Apple.

But you know this, I'm sure. It's part of the fun.

I enjoy it. I sympathise with your cause more than the pro-Apple cause but I think both sides are pretty silly, really.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I think the 'trolling' label comes from your motivation for your regular (and undoubtedly accurate, well sourced) news stories. You're doing it because a) you don't like Apple (understandable) b) because you don't like the fact that a corporation has fans (also understandable) but mainly c) because you enjoy that it winds people up. (also understandable, everyone loves winding people up)


Can I just say that I don't actually do it to wind people up - _honestly_ - I do it just to balance out the bizarre Apple reality distortion field that seems to exist here sometimes.

Bear in mind that as a tech journalist, I read tons and tons of this stuff every day, so perhaps I do use these threads as a pressure valve sometimes. There's only so much happy clappy, wildly pro-Apple guff a man can take every day!

That said, if you look at my posts, I often post up non-controversial, factual updates about Apple too, but even those can end up with me being accusing of "trolling."

Recent example: I posted up about the 4S battery life issue and was immediately called a troll, despite it being a major breaking news story across all the main news sites, and with just one of the many threads on Apple's own forums on the matter attracting nearly 200k page views and 3,000 posts. It clearly is an issue, but if you look at some of the responses, you'd think that I was making it all up just to be mean to the poor Apple users some of whom immediately engaged "denial" mode.

Anyway, I'm more interested in the sci-fi bubbles of delusion rising from the soil now.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> Recent example: I posted up about the 4S battery life issue and was immediately called a troll, despite it being a major breaking news story across all the main news sites, and with just one of the many threads on Apple's own forums on the matter attracting nearly 200k page views and 3,000 posts. It clearly is an issue, but if you look at some of the responses, you'd think that I was making it all up just to be mean to the poor Apple users some of whom immediately engaged "denial" mode.



I think what happened there was that people said 4 million phones sold... 3000 posts... there was no denial or defence (I clearly said I wasn't defending anyone), simply putting it in perspective.

It's in this thread, you weren't immediately called a troll at all... go read it.


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> Anyway, I'm more interested in the sci-fi bubbles of delusion rising from the soil now.



Not soil, soiling yourself. On one level you have overcompensated and become what you hate, though I would not attempt to stretch this point too far.

Pointless IT sectarianism is not defeated by backing one side.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 2, 2011)

editor said:


> Can I just say that I don't actually do it to wind people up - _honestly_ - I do it just to balance out the bizarre Apple reality distortion field that seems to exist here sometimes.
> 
> Bear in mind that as a tech journalist, I read tons and tons of this stuff every day, so perhaps I do use these threads as a pressure valve sometimes. There's only so much happy clappy, wildly pro-Apple guff a man can take every day!
> 
> ...



Hey, I hear you. The 'cult of mac' nonsense annoys the fuck out of me too. I loved my iPhone - probably the best gadget I've ever owned, for the time - but I can't wait to get a PC in place of my Macbook Pro. They deserve credit for their products, not adulation. I also get that you want to highlight that actually, 'so what?', but the frequency of the updates will always lead to people getting uppity.

Much like if someone frequently posted updates about Cardiff City's failings, however valid they might be, you'd get annoyed by it.

So, I suppose what I'm saying is that you can't expect your editorial bias against Apple, even if valid, not to result in this drama.


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2011)

Unfortunately there is a danger of escalating conflict if the resulting drama is perceived as a a sign of victory, validation of the chosen approach etc.

people get attached to brands, symbols, platforms, etc. Shucks, the tools are a means to an end, not a special friend.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Much like if someone frequently posted updates about Cardiff City's failings, however valid they might be, you'd get annoyed by it.


If the points they were making were contemporary and valid, I may not like it, but I'd either defend them or admit to it when we were in the wrong. Case in point might be how I responded to KE's posting of a HTC security flaw. Compare that with the reaction I often get when I post up something similar about an Apple product!



ChrisFilter said:


> So, I suppose what I'm saying is that you can't expect your editorial bias against Apple, even if valid, not to result in this drama.


It's not an "editorial bias," it's a personal opinion.

Besides, there's plenty of examples of me lavishing praise on Apple products. In fact, you'd be hard pushed to find any posts of mine describing any Apple product as shit.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 2, 2011)

I hear there's numerous Android threads on here, I never go in there as I don't own one.
If I spent an inordinate amount of time posting up threads to help show that Google are actually just as cuntish as Apple, I would consider myself a bit of a troll, even though it would be the truth.

Not that I mind, being british I don't mind trolling, that's what we do. We just don't call it that.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

elbows said:


> people get attached to brands, symbols, platforms, etc. Shucks, the tools are a means to an end, not a special friend.


That's what I find so odd. I don't really give much of a fuck who makes my products and I'll switch as soon as something better comes along. That's why I've had Palm OS then Android then webOS, iPhone and finally back to Android devices in the past few years, and my next phone may well be Windows Mobile.

If I like a product, I'll praise it and recommend it but I wont then feel obliged to become its Brand Defender On Earth, even when the sci-fi bubbles of delusion start rising from the soil.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2011)

Structaural said:


> I hear there's numerous Android threads on here, I never go in there as I don't own one.
> If I spent an inordinate amount of time posting up threads to help show that Google are actually just as cuntish as Apple, I would consider myself a bit of a troll, even though it would be the truth.
> 
> Not that I mind, being british I don't mind trolling, that's what we do. We just don't call it that.


I post up on lots of threads where I don't own the product because I'm interested in the technology. If you think Google are as cuntish as Apple, then I'm happy to see the discussion because it's important that people find out what's going on behind their chosen technology, no matter how shiny the vendor.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2011)

Apple has now admitted that there is a problem with reduced battery life that has been affecting some users and a fix has been promised.

http://allthingsd.com/20111102/apple-some-ios5-bugs-prompting-iphone-battery-issues/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2011)

Yup and pointed out that this is a small number of people and not the mass problem some people were trying to make it out to be.


----------



## elbows (Nov 3, 2011)

Don't talk daft, if it were really only a tiny problem then Apple would not have felt compelled to comment.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 3, 2011)

elbows said:


> Don't talk daft, if it were really only a tiny problem then Apple would not have felt compelled to comment.



Different leader at the helm...


----------



## elbows (Nov 3, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Different leader at the helm...



Yeah I expect to see some changes due to different leadership, e.g. Apple will not stay completely silent when there is a problem. But I'd still expect them to keep quiet unless the problem affected a significant quantity of its users.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 3, 2011)

elbows said:


> Yeah I expect to see some changes due to different leadership, e.g. Apple will not stay completely silent when there is a problem. But I'd still expect them to keep quiet unless the problem affected a significant quantity of its users.



Article about Tim Cooks different approach was on Mac Rumors the other day: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/01/tim-cook-putting-his-stamp-on-apple/


----------



## gabi (Nov 3, 2011)

I still want to know what Apple's doing about sorting out global poverty. The cunts.


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## editor (Nov 3, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Different leader at the helm...


I don't see much of a policy shift from antennagate here: i.e. ignore everyone until the noise gets too loud and they're forced to act.


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## Kanda (Nov 3, 2011)

editor said:


> I don't see much of a policy shift from antennagate here: i.e. ignore everyone until the noise gets too loud and they're forced to act.



Their engineers were contacting users with the problem pretty much as soon as it surfaced...  there's an article posted up there ^^ somewhere about it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2011)

elbows said:


> Don't talk daft, if it were really only a tiny problem then Apple would not have felt compelled to comment.



Don't be stupid, protecting your brand is crucial. They were stung pretty badly by the smear campaign around the reception issue, and no with the way the media works and the legions of haters that a reputation can be tarnished pretty damn quickly.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2011)

gabi said:


> I still want to know what Apple's doing about sorting out global poverty. The cunts.



Yeah man bastards! Perhaps it's time we organized an #occuptcurpotino?


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## elbows (Nov 3, 2011)

Smear campaign? You are dribbling. And there is more than one way to protect a brand, Apples stance in the past was clearly to keep quiet in an attempt not to draw wider attention to issues.

Anyway I see that Apple have released a beta of an iOS 5 update to developers, so I expect they only decided to acknowledge the problem now because they have a fix, and since the fix is mentioned in the beta release notes it was going to become public now anyway.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 4, 2011)

It only requires a software patch but the way the idiot blogs and the legion of sycophants are going on about it you'd think 80% of iPhone 4S' are having issues that are hardware related. It's been clearly shown the numbers are exceptionally small, persisting with the contrary is either delusion or a smear.


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## Kanda (Nov 4, 2011)

Isn't there an app you buy that sorts out your battery usage? Or am I thinking about the wrong platform?


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## Sunray (Nov 5, 2011)

Those apps are worthless shit and a scam I reckon.  Its just an error condition that causes it to go into an energy expensive loop.

Software has a bug, wow.  I can post up a string of Android issues if you like.

FYI : Pressing a key on your PC keyboard could theoretically hang your machine.  Nothing they can do about it either, although they can make it statistically improbable.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2011)

Third week of owning a 4S, just checked my data usage and it's 2.5gigs! 

All you can eat data on a stable and fast 3G network is what your smartphone experience should be about, it's fucking sweeeeeet!


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## Kanda (Nov 5, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Those apps are worthless shit and a scam I reckon. Its just an error condition that causes it to go into an energy expensive loop.



I was having a joke at Androids expense..


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## ChrisFilter (Nov 5, 2011)

What app do you mean? Genuine question. I've been using Android for a year and haven't heard of a battery life app.


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## ChrisFilter (Nov 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah man bastards! Perhaps it's time we organized an #occuptcurpotino?



I just don't understand why you like Apple so much. I think that's why I find all this so amusing. I don't get the unconditional love for a corporation.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2011)

That was a joke mate, I don't love any company.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 14, 2011)

The number of new iPhone owners I now know due to the 4S is quite crazy, Siri has actually been mentioned a big draw too...strange times!


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## spanglechick (Dec 14, 2011)

so, i'm looking at upgrading. i can afford on contract an iphone 4, or if i go with 3 as a network, a 4S, for a fiver more a month.

is the difference worth the extra fiver?  other than siri, what are the improvements?


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 14, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> so, i'm looking at upgrading. i can afford on contract an iphone 4, or if i go with 3 as a network, a 4S, for a fiver more a month.
> 
> is the difference worth the extra fiver?  other than siri, what are the improvements?



I wouldn't get a 4S for Siri, it has better battery, a better camera and is faster to use (apps open quicker, games run faster & web loads quicker). Well worth the extra fiver if you ask me. That said you can get all that for a lot cheaper with the Samsung Galaxy S2, might be worth checking that out too if you're not wedded to iOS.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 14, 2011)

Siri is nice, but not amazingly useful - it's handy for doing quick searches, and adding reminders and taking notes and stuff but I don't use it a huge amount.

On the other hand it is more powerful than the 4 and has a noticeably better camera. I generally err on the side of getting the latest model of anything, because it will tend to have a longer lifespan anyway, though the difference is not nearly as big as between my old 3GS and the 4S.


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## spanglechick (Dec 14, 2011)

nah, i like my iphone and i don't want to lose all my apps.  3 as a network, though...?


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## spanglechick (Dec 14, 2011)

the camera thing is persuasive.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 14, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> nah, i like my iphone and i don't want to lose all my apps. 3 as a network, though...?



Have you checked the third party sites? You can often find better deals the network offer, despite being on their network. They often provide unlocked phones as well. If you don't want to go down that route then get the prices and phone back your current provider and ask for your PAC code, then bargain with them.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 14, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> nah, i like my iphone and i don't want to lose all my apps.  3 as a network, though...?



I'm on 3, it's been great! I've used nearly 6gigs in downloads since having the 4S (I got it 8 weeks ago)! Reception has been very good to excellent in London and midlands. Very happy with them.


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## spanglechick (Dec 14, 2011)

might do that then.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 14, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm on 3, it's been great! I've used nearly 6gigs in downloads since having the 4S (I got it 8 weeks ago)! Reception has been very good to excellent in London and midlands. Very happy with them.



Their services and prices can be great and I was on them for years, was very impressed with a mates recently when we were standing at the bottom of a crag and he had full 3g, when a few years before they had nothing. Was forced to change a few years ago and one thing I've never missed is their customer services! Been with Orange and T Mobile since and it's almost a joy compared to what I'd go through. Both have call centres based in the UK. However if things go well you don't have to speak to them and other then they are a decent network.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2011)

I don't really use it but two people I know use FaceTime pretty much all the time now, apparently they love it because it allows them to speak directly to each other and their kids can communicate in a way that makes more sense to them (as in kids finding it more natural to see each other while speaking on the phone than just hear a voice)...


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## editor (Dec 17, 2011)

I don't know a single soul on this earth who uses FaceTime. Seeing as it only works on Wi-Fi most people just use their laptops/desktops at home for a superior video chatting platform - and, of course, they don't have to rely on both parties owning Apple gear.


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## elbows (Dec 17, 2011)

I still dont know anyone who video chats on any platform, never mind FaceTime. But Im sure it has its uses for a minority.


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## Gromit (Dec 18, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Siri is nice, but not amazingly useful - it's handy for doing quick searches, and adding reminders and taking notes and stuff but I don't use it a huge amount.
> .



I love using it as a music controller.

Telling it to shuffle or start a particular playlist etc. through my headset mic whilst the phone is in my pocket.

Also to make it dial my contacts.

But it does piss me off that a lot of the things shown in the promo vids only work in the US. Such as give me directions to the nearest [insert business].

Plus getting it to type a txt is a waste of time as it never gets it right.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 19, 2011)

elbows said:


> I still dont know anyone who video chats on any platform, never mind FaceTime. But Im sure it has its uses for a minority.



We live abroad, we Skype a lot, four of five times a week, grandparents, parents, friends. Works on all the computers and phones. Handy (though we've been using Viber for call-only as the quality is better).
Not Facetime, it's slow to connect, you can't turn off video if you're not in the mood and it's mac only.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 19, 2011)

I video chat on occasion, though only with close friends, and not that often. I've not used FaceTime, I always use Skype video; more people have it. But here's something - I was at a party on the weekend, for somebody who's leaving the country, and several people independently said "use FaceTime" when communicating with them came up as a subject, and not any sort of special Apple fans either. I think they all had iPhones, but then, a lot of people _do_ have iPhones. So apparently people do use it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2011)

elbows said:


> I still dont know anyone who video chats on any platform, never mind FaceTime. But Im sure it has its uses for a minority.



I used to use video chat often for business meetings with directors across the UK. People with kids tend to be a good market for things like FaceTime; I've read plenty of stories of parents using it while abroad to stay in touch with their kids (apparently its big amongst soldiers in Afghanistan)...


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think they all had iPhones, but then, a lot of people _do_ have iPhones. So apparently people do use it.


I'm sure some people do use it, but that number is massively limited by the fact that it's a proprietary service running on a single platform that most people don't own and one that only works on wi-fi. Skype is far more useful in being more featured, cross-platform capable and also able to work on 3G connections.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I video chat on occasion, though only with close friends, and not that often. I've not used FaceTime, I always use Skype video; more people have it. But here's something - I was at a party on the weekend, for somebody who's leaving the country, and several people independently said "use FaceTime" when communicating with them came up as a subject, and not any sort of special Apple fans either. I think they all had iPhones, but then, a lot of people _do_ have iPhones. So apparently people do use it.



Yup the ones i mentioned above aren't Apple fans in any shape or form, in fact they're about as far from being a geek as you can get...


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## Kanda (Dec 19, 2011)

elbows said:


> I still dont know anyone who video chats on any platform, never mind FaceTime. But Im sure it has its uses for a minority.



My Mrs was in Grenada for a week, they had wifi. Soooo much cheaper to use FaceTime for INTL calls.


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## editor (Dec 19, 2011)

Kanda said:


> My Mrs was in Grenada for a week, they had wifi. Soooo much cheaper to use FaceTime for INTL calls.


That's only because you've got His'n'Hers matching phones


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 19, 2011)

Kanda said:


> My Mrs was in Grenada for a week, they had wifi. Soooo much cheaper to use FaceTime for INTL calls.


Or use Viber.


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## Kanda (Dec 19, 2011)

We don't actually. She has a 4s 

Even so, use Skype or whatever. There are benefits to video calls, regardless of platform.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2011)

Kanda said:


> We don't actually. She has a 4s
> 
> Even so, use Skype or whatever. There are benefits to video calls, regardless of platform.



Yup it's a very neat little feature...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 20, 2011)

What's the difference between Skype and Viber?


----------



## Badgers (Dec 20, 2011)

Anyone seen any good 4S offers on at the moment?


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 20, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Anyone seen any good 4S offers on at the moment?


contract or to buy outright?


----------



## Badgers (Dec 20, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> contract or to buy outright?



Contract


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## spanglechick (Dec 20, 2011)

best i've found is on 3. All you can eat data, £99 for the phone - £35/month.
they also do £49 for the phone and 1GB data for the same monthly cost, or 500mb data / £129 for the phone for only £30/month.

by far the bast contract deals i've found.


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2011)

£35 month is a lot.

If you use your phone a lot for surfing/movies etc, you may find that 1GB limit rather restrictive too. I'd recommend buying the phone outright and getting on a cheap Giffgaff deal (£10 month/unlimited text and internet/300 mins on a rolling monthly contract).


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 20, 2011)

not all of us have the disposable cash to buy a smartphone outright.

edit - and for the same price you can have unlimited data, if you can manage £50 more for the phone.


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## editor (Dec 20, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> not all of us have the disposable cash to buy a smartphone outright.
> 
> edit - and for the same price you can have unlimited data, if you can manage £50 more for the phone.


I'd spend the £50 extra if you can, else you may find yourself having to pay more for extra bandwidth (Eme burst through her 500MB/month limit and she's hardly a power user). But it all depends on how much you think you'll be using the phone.


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 20, 2011)

yeah, i was going to - but i thought i'd give badgers the whole picture.  i've never used more that 1GB  a month with my current iphone, though. i'd struggle with 500mb, and i'll go for the unlimted for the peace of mind, but 1gb has always been plenty for me.


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> yeah, i was going to - but i thought i'd give badgers the whole picture. i've never used more that 1GB a month with my current iphone, though. i'd struggle with 500mb, and i'll go for the unlimted for the peace of mind, but 1gb has always been plenty for me.


How long is the contract for? if you plotted your data usage over the last 2 years, I'd warrant it has a distinct upward trend, and that's likely to continue: so although 1GB may be fine now, it may prove limiting in  a years time.


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 20, 2011)

yeah, maybe. that's why i'm going for the unlimited package.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> yeah, maybe. that's why i'm going for the unlimited package.



Good move:


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 20, 2011)

> It's official: TalkTalk and 3UK had more complaints than any other Blighty-based telcos since communications' regulator Ofcom started publishing its league table displaying the good, the bad and the downright ugly.
> 
> Meanwhile, in the less griped about mobile market, 3UK also scored a hat trick - plus a bonus goal in extra time - as the most complained about company per 1,000 punters.
> Ofcom said it received 0.14 gripes from 3UK customers compared with a piddling 0.02 about O2, which was the mobile outfit that stayed at the top of the regulator's list.
> ...









Their customer services are pretty shocking, so it's interesting to see it confirmed.


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2011)

Right on cue, here's the BBC today. Three is still the worst - and the number of complaints are still rising:


> In the same period, Ofcom found 3 was the most complained about mobile operator, driven by disputed charges and customer service issues...
> 
> But in mobile, Virgin Media saw its complaints rise from 0.03 complaints per 1,000 customers from of 2010 to 0.07 by the third quarter of 2011.
> 
> ...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 22, 2011)

I got my new 4s yesterday. Got a quick query, how does photostream work. I have checked the settings and they seem to be correct but none of the photos I take are going into the photostream folder and I can't seem to move them manually.
PC wise i am using itunes / windows 7 pro.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2011)

Another friend got the 4S. Their first comment? Was about Siri. Amazing marketing...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 23, 2011)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> I got my new 4s yesterday. Got a quick query, how does photostream work. I have checked the settings and they seem to be correct but none of the photos I take are going into the photostream folder and I can't seem to move them manually.
> PC wise i am using itunes / windows 7 pro.



Have to be in a wifi zone for the pictures to go across.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 23, 2011)

Someone I was talking to tonight loves their new 4S and are now going to get a MacBook because they want iCloud and 'love how it all just works'. Amazing transition, they've never owned a smartphone before and have never been interested in computers other than using the net...never seen anything like it before!


----------



## editor (Dec 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Someone I was talking to tonight loves their new 4S and are now going to get a MacBook because they want iCloud and 'love how it all just works'. Amazing transition, they've never owned a smartphone before and have never been interested in computers other than using the net...never seen anything like it before!


I just love the way you can't wait to tell everyone here how each and every friend of yours just _*loves*_ their iPhone 4S.

You truly are the #1 fan.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 24, 2011)

How efficient, missing the point by a country mile and managing to be more of a wanker than usual about it. There should be a prize for that type of thing on here...


----------



## elbows (Dec 24, 2011)

I'm giving you up for 2012, its going to be great


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 24, 2011)

You're letting him down.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 24, 2011)

Also running around.


----------



## Elvis Parsley (Dec 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Another friend got the 4S. Their first comment? Was about Siri. Amazing marketing...


mods, when is the ignore function coming back? pleeease


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 24, 2011)

Amazing, Ed acts like a wanker and yet it's the person subjected to it that's at fault. Lovely people you lot.


----------



## editor (Dec 24, 2011)

Happy Christmas!


----------



## Elvis Parsley (Dec 24, 2011)

talking of siri, did anyone catch the bit on radio four the other day where they were talking about phones for teens this christmas? the 4s and galaxy s2 were all that were really mentioned and it was more from a security point of view than about functionality, but a guy from techradar was asked to give a demo of siri on his 4s. it totally failed, 3 times, on live radio 

a colleague has given up on trying to get siri to work for her, she's from Eritrea and has a very slight accent but otherwise speaks beautifully, also a student of mine with a mild Portuguese accent who got a 4s because of siri, he's disabled and thought siri would be a help, has found it to be totally useless.

siri has turned out to be a massive flop from where i'm sitting

i can talk to my s2, but i don't. maybe when you can do it without sounding, looking and feeling like a complete nob i'll give it another go


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 24, 2011)

editor said:


> I just love the way you can't wait to tell everyone here how each and every friend of yours just _*loves*_ their iPhone 4S.
> 
> You truly are the #1 fan.



...said the #1 apple troll


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 24, 2011)

Elvis Parsley said:


> talking of siri, did anyone catch the bit on radio four the other day where they were talking about phones for teens this christmas? the 4s and galaxy s2 were all that were really mentioned and it was more from a security point of view than about functionality, but a guy from techradar was asked to give a demo of siri on his 4s. it totally failed, 3 times, on live radio
> 
> a colleague has given up on trying to get siri to work for her, she's from Eritrea and has a very slight accent but otherwise speaks beautifully, also a student of mine with a mild Portuguese accent who got a 4s because of siri, he's disabled and thought siri would be a help, has found it to be totally useless.
> 
> ...


yeah, I heard that - he was asking it stupid questions though ("will I need a jumper tomorrow?")

It is not good with accents though. Somebody I know with a fairly noticeable Japanese accent finds it utterly useless. It also gets things wrong for me a lot if I have any background noise (the radio, a noisy road) and I've got a very bog standard generic London accent.


----------



## Elvis Parsley (Dec 24, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> yeah, I heard that - he was asking it stupid questions though ("will I need a jumper tomorrow?")


but according to the adverts that's just the sort of thing it's meant to be for 

plus he owned the phone and seemed to know what it was capable of. not that it helped


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 25, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> yeah, I heard that - he was asking it stupid questions though ("will I need a jumper tomorrow?")


What's the difference between that and asking if one will need an umbrella...like they do in the advert?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 25, 2011)

At the risk of provoking the ire of the usual idiots...

My very sweet little niece came up to me today as I was texting and said: "Uncle, can I speak to Siri!?". This was followed by a few questions about if Siri was a person and where 'he' lived. Trying to explain AI and cloud computing to a 6 year old was most amusing.


----------



## Elvis Parsley (Dec 28, 2011)

yet somehow you make it sound soooo dull


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 28, 2011)

Um who the fuck are you?


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2011)

Cheeky!
Supermarket prankster turns iPhone’s Siri assistant into foul mouthed yob
http://www.wirefresh.com/supermarket-prankster-turns-iphones-siri-assistant-into-foul-mouthed-yob/


----------



## fen_boy (Dec 31, 2011)

What's 'a Coventry'? And how should one go about tempering an iPhone?


----------



## fen_boy (Dec 31, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> What's 'a Coventry'? And how should one go about tempering an iPhone?



Fixed now


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 31, 2011)

I read someone simply changed User name to 'Shut the fuck up you ugly twat'

It made me smile but could see how the mum of a 12 year old might be shocked. The phone really doesn't need to be returned to Apple ffs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 31, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> I read someone simply changed User name to 'Shut the fuck up you ugly twat'
> 
> It made me smile but could see how the mum of a 12 year old might be shocked. The phone really doesn't need to be returned to Apple ffs.



Yup that was my first thought, it's a well known prank. Can you imagine the testers at Apple getting this unit back with a note saying what happened? Bet they'll laugh their asses off and file away under 'Who gives a shit!?'.


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> It made me smile but could see how the mum of a 12 year old might be shocked.


I thought her 'concerned' face in the Sun photo had "I'd like a ton of shiny compensation thanksverymuch" written all over it.

I hope she never takes her son to football because she'd have to pull an even more 'concerned' face after that.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 2, 2012)

What kind of twat doesn't know how to swear properly when he is 12? What that phone said is what we were saying when we were about 7 round our way. My mum would have seen the funny side. That's the problem with kids nowadays, stupid fucking parents.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 2, 2012)

Do you know what makes me swear. THe fact I have to connect my phone to the computer with itunes on it to download anything over 20 meg and that itunes on my computer feels it necessary to then delete all my apps. And refuses to sync my photos to icloud unless i am on a wireless network, which I ain't, since the phone is my home internet connection.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 2, 2012)

Is that Apple's fault or the networks?


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 2, 2012)

Apple's.

My network provides me with plenty of data and speed. It's the restrictions on the phone. Not the network.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 2, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Apple's.
> 
> My network provides me with plenty of data and speed. It's the restrictions on the phone. Not the network.



Are you sure? I could be wrong but have this vague memory that the cap was to appease certain networks.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 2, 2012)

yeah, phone before this was HTC desire s (same provider) which I also used as my home AP and I could download Linux ISOs with ease. I have 10 gigs a month data plan and 20 MB down and 4 up


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 2, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> y20 MB down and 4 up



Do you get that all time?


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 2, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Do you know what makes me swear. THe fact I have to connect my phone to the computer with itunes on it to download anything over 20 meg and that itunes on my computer feels it necessary to then delete all my apps. And refuses to sync my photos to icloud unless i am on a wireless network, which I ain't, since the phone is my home internet connection.


What are you downloading onto your phone that's over 20Mb? 

How is iTunes deleting all your apps?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 2, 2012)

As standard, iPhones won't update or download apps larger than 20 meg over 3G. I have no idea whether you can turn this off.

I've never had it delete apps however.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 2, 2012)

Syncing with iTunes , in order to download apps and stuff deleted my already installed apps and the folders I had placed things. Apparently from googling its a common problem, most lilely to me not understanding the backwards way they are doing things. Lots of stuff is over 20 MB yesterday's 12 days thing was a 200MB book which I didn't bother with.
I don't get those speeds all the time but it's usually about 10MB down and 2 up.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 2, 2012)

The sonic game was over 20MB as is garage band and Iattention whore, I mean movie maker.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 2, 2012)

I just realised I said something silly. 


Boris Sprinkler said:


> Lots of stuff is over 20 MB yesterday's 12 days thing was a 200MB book which I didn't bother with.


I don't think it was. My entire iBooks takes up about 67MB. eBooks take up hardly any space at all.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 2, 2012)

Lots of things are well over 20 meg though - I think my largest app is over 800. That part is annoying I imagine yes, but there may be a way to allow it (in the same way that downloading music on iTunes Match defaults to wifi only but you can make it use 3G). I have no idea about this deleting apps thing though, I can't see why that would happen. If you sync it should transfer purchases made on the phone. Mine certainly always has.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 3, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I just realised I said something silly.
> 
> I don't think it was. My entire iBooks takes up about 67MB. eBooks take up hardly any space at all.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 3, 2012)

That's not a standard book, it's got videos and such in it. And it isn't the book that was given away the other day. That was only about 2MB. Most eBooks are about that.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 3, 2012)

It was given out here, there was also a lonely planet best of 2012 travel guide I think, that clocked in at 200MB but that is 79Krona now so I wasn't going to pay to download that.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 3, 2012)

I was hoping for some help with my iphone, but you're all hiding in here now and ignoring the actual iphone thread


----------



## Crispy (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't understand why the specific model of phone needs its own thread anyway.
Also "new, views and general opinions" is redundant. It's a message board, what else did you expect?


----------



## sim667 (Jan 3, 2012)

Maybe I should start a new thread all about me then


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 3, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I don't understand why the specific model of phone needs its own thread anyway.
> Also "new, views and general opinions" is redundant. It's a message board, what else did you expect?



I dunno there's plenty of double standards on what constitutes a 'need' for a thread so
I say fuck it, post what the hell you like!


----------



## han (Jan 4, 2012)

Well, I was checking out giffgaff, and you can use the latest iPhones with them (if you order a micro sim from them) for £10 a month, unlimited data.........

Mind, I've just bought an Android, so I'm not sure why i'm posting on this thread. I guess it's cos I was investigating compatibility of Android/OSX and thinking 'oh fuck! - am I making life really difficult for myself?' and did a bit of digging and realised it's absolutely fine, really.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 4, 2012)

Yeah Android is pretty cloud based so you shouldn't get into any sync with wire issues at all.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 4, 2012)

Really don't think there's much value in this...!


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2012)

Dreadful tat.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 5, 2012)

Surely we can't be running out of oil that quickly if there's still enough resources to make that... If not shouldn't shit like this be banned world wide as fucking useless and wasteful?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2012)

Now THIS is a cool little add on!


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2012)

Worth noting if you're on a restricted bandwidth deal:


> Aresio's research shows that owners of the iPhone 4S are using twice as much data as owners of the iPhone 4, and three times as much data as owners of the iPhone 3G.
> 
> By way of comparison, the owners of the iPhone 4 use 1.6 times as much data as owners of the iPhone 3G, and owners of the iPad 2 use about 2.5 times more data than the iPhone 3G



http://www.informationweek.com/news/mobility/smart_phones/232301406


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2012)

Only a fool would get a smartphone on a shitty data deal...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Only a fool would get a smartphone on a shitty data deal...



Or someone who just checked emails and used google occasionally?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Or someone who just checked emails and used google occasionally?



Depends on the size of them emails.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 6, 2012)

Or mainly used WiFi, like me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Or mainly used WiFi, like me.



Christ I couldn't live like that, searching for wifi hotspots all over the gaff...not the life for me.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Christ I couldn't live like that, searching for wifi hotspots all over the gaff...not the life for me.


I have WiFi at work, and at home.  I don't use much data when I'm out and about.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 7, 2012)

When I 1st got my iPhone 3G, the quality of the wifi hotspots around London was good, quite often I would be getting stuff via wifi. But the challenge of having literally thousands of boxes all over the place is that they are going to be a maintenance nightmare and it appears that is what is happening.

The problem also arises is that there is just the concept of wi-fi, but clearly not all wi-fi spots are equal. If its unprotected and your phone knows no better it will hook up to the 1st one it finds, run by captain pugwash to spy on what your doing. There is no meta data on a wifi spots quality and security so your phone can fuck off crappy spots and go for better ones.

I now have it permanently switched off, generally connecting to wifi now means cutting me off.

Fortunately, generally O2 have enabled the 900Mhz band for data and its really making a difference in a lot of places.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Christ I couldn't live like that, searching for wifi hotspots all over the gaff...not the life for me.



I never search for them, just use my home connection for anything large, have free wifi at work and don't often stream stuff. Get a gig a month and never gone over it, despite me using it as a modem for my netbook sometimes.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 9, 2012)

well i was going to go onto simplicity with a 1gb limit, but though I'd better check my bandwidth usage......

averaging 1.5-2 gb a month

Looks like Ill be sticking to my current plan then as giffgaff doesn't have an official carrier file for iPhones, and 3 are just a horrible company.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 10, 2012)

Looks like Apple shareholders have another reason to grin:






That's some serious leap in US sales share!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 23, 2012)

64GB iPhone 4S takes 21% of sales, 36% of iPhone buyers come from another platform
​


> *A new survey of recent iPhone customers found that 21 percent of iPhone 4S buyers chose Apple's highest capacity 64-gigabyte model, while 36 percent of users migrated from another platform like Android, BlackBerry or Palm.*





> Consumer Intelligence Research Partners released a report on Monday, revealing new details about users who bought an iPhone following the launch of the new iPhone 4S last October. Among those surveyed, 21 percent of iPhone 4S buyers opted for the high-end 64GB model, Apple's highest-ever capacity for a smartphone model.


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2012)

"while 36 percent of users migrated from another platform like Android, BlackBerry or Palm."

Well, that's certainly pointlessly vague enough.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 24, 2012)

> *Q1 2012 Hardware Numbers:*
> 
> 37.04 million iPhones sold
> 15.43 million iPads sold
> ...



That's a lot of apps downloaded!


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2012)

There's a cross platform Siri rival called Evi which - for iOS users - at least offers more UK specific answers. It can't do the useful system command stuff though.

http://www.wirefresh.com/intelligent-assistant-evi-takes-on-apples-siri-on-android-and-ios/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 24, 2012)

It's getting panned in the reviews on the app store, seems like its really slow by all accounts. Can't see I'll be paying for a worse version of Siri tbh...


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's getting panned in the reviews on the app store, seems like its really slow by all accounts. Can't see I'll be paying for a worse version of Siri tbh...


The speed seems to be down to it picking up a load of coverage and the servers grinding to a halt. I gave it a go earlier, and it was pretty good (albeit with the usual caveats for this voice stuff).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 25, 2012)

Pretty pointless releasing an app like this if it can be run properly, also why pay for this when Siri is free?


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Pretty pointless releasing an app like this if it can be run properly, also why pay for this when Siri is free?


Because Siri is only available on the iPhone 4S.  I've given it go.  It wouldn't work yesterday at all.  Today I got it do one thing, but after that there kept being a problem with the servers.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 25, 2012)

Sometimes if you select "Try again" it works.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Pretty pointless releasing an app like this if it can be run properly, also why pay for this when Siri is free?


Because Siri is pretty useless for UK searches.


> Since spending a small fortune on my iPhone I've used Siri a few times and found it most useful for making friends laugh at dinner parties. But, although it calls my friend Shevaun Trebor and sets reminders I can't understand, to think it is anti-abortion is a whole other boycott-worthy ballgame.
> 
> Except it isn't. Anti-abortion that is. What happened when I asked Siri for local services or indeed anything useful was first a truly annoying response: "Sorry, I can only look for businesses in the United States, and when you're using US. English." I asked an American colleague to help when my attempt at an American accent didn't fool it. But that didn't work either.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 25, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Because Siri is only available on the iPhone 4S.  I've given it go.  It wouldn't work yesterday at all.  Today I got it do one thing, but after that there kept being a problem with the servers.



Siri is free and still in beta (which those that bleat about the lack of local search should probably keep in mind!). What we're taking about his a finished product being sold at a price with a lesser experience...


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Siri is free


What use is that if you don't have an iPhone 4S?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 25, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> What use is that if you don't have an iPhone 4S?



If you care that much you can jailbreak or buy the substandard app we've been talking about.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 25, 2012)

Put another way talking about not having an iPhone 4S being a problem on the thread about the iPhone 4S is more than a little amusing.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Put another way talking about not having an iPhone 4S being a problem on the thread about the iPhone 4S is more than a little amusing.


Siri was just about the only really new feature on the 4s, and that turned out to be deeply flawed and virtually useless for many UK searches. This is an alternative, so totally on topic.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 26, 2012)

Ask Siri where he was manufactured. He says he is not allowed to answer that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2012)

editor said:


> Siri was just about the only really new feature on the 4s, and that turned out to be deeply flawed and virtually useless for many UK searches. This is an alternative, so totally on topic.



You've missed the point again, it was about this being a 4S thread in response to GS' curious post.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 2, 2012)

Amusing:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 7, 2012)

Siri now accounts for 25% of all Wolfram queries in the last 4 months. The future of search certainly is looking like an interesting battleground!



> Apple’s digital secretary named Siri, an iPhone 4S exclusive, is now responsible for nearly 25 percent of all searches conducted on Wolfram Alpha, an answer-engine developed by Wolfram Research.
> 
> As you know, Apple collaborated with Wolfram Alpha on Siri (Microsoft is another licensee), and took advantage of algorithms powering Mathematica, another Wolfram Research product. It lets users type in complex factual queries, and then Wolfram Alpha computes accurate answers from its structured data containing hundreds of datasets.
> 
> The Cupertino, Calif.-based Company fancies Wolfram Alpha’s curated knowledge database, which is a nice fit for the iPhone 4S’s factual question answering feature. According to the _New York Times’ _Steve Lohr, Siri accounts for a quarter of all Wolfram Alpha queries after four months


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 7, 2012)

Given that the only user users of note to use Wolfram Alpha are microsoft 'bing' and a search engine called DuckDuckGo. This isn't a surprise.


----------



## twistedAM (Feb 8, 2012)

I can get a 4S in a couple of weeks once my contract is up but I really don't want to be stuck with one for two years. Is it worth grinding it out for 6 months on my 3GS? Will the 5 come out in summer or later? 
I really don;t want to go onto Android but it is actually crossing my mind.


----------



## elbows (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't think its completely clear at this point whether Apples iPhone release schedule will return to summer for the iPhone 5 or remain later in the year as happened with the 4S. I had been struggling with an iPhone 3G and wasn't so overwhelmed by the 4S that I had to get one, I was lured over to Android device with a larger screen. Its been fine but there is a reasonable chance I may switch back to an iPhone if the 5 is any good, since I've come to see Android as satisfactory rather than stunning.

Its a tough one for you as even if there is an iPhone 5 announced in the summer it is likely to feel like a long wait and stock has tended to be constrained for a good while after launch.


----------



## twistedAM (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm fine with screen size but just need more speed. I think if I get a 4S now it'll be really outdated when I come to the end of my contract. I might give T-Mobile a ring and see if they'll give me a shorter contract. I doubt it but i have been a customer for nearly 20 years


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> I can get a 4S in a couple of weeks once my contract is up but I really don't want to be stuck with one for two years. Is it worth grinding it out for 6 months on my 3GS? Will the 5 come out in summer or later?
> I really don;t want to go onto Android but it is actually crossing my mind.


No one actually knows for sure, but I'd say that there's a very good chance that the iPhone 5 will be out by the summer. Considering the relatively incremental upgrade seen in the iPhone 4 to 4S, I'm not convinced there's going to be much revolutionary about the thing though. Most of the new developments in mobiles seem to be related to bigger screens, NFC and battery life.

There's some mighty fine Android phones out there though, and you may want to take a close look at the Galaxy S3 which looks to be a stunner (expected to be announced next month).


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> I'm fine with screen size but just need more speed. I think if I get a 4S now it'll be really outdated when I come to the end of my contract. I might give T-Mobile a ring and see if they'll give me a shorter contract. I doubt it but i have been a customer for nearly 20 years


For the record, when I tried that with T Mobile - and I'd been with them for 14 years - the answer was a pretty resolute "fuck you."

Are you sure you want to sign up for a 2 year deal anyway? Why not buy a phone outright and go for a super cheap GiffGaff deal?


----------



## twistedAM (Feb 8, 2012)

editor said:


> There's some mighty fine Android phones out there though, and you may want to take a close look at the Galaxy S3 which looks to be a stunner (expected to be announced next month).


 
Might well have a look at that but I've just been using Apple stuff for so long it seems like a hassle.




editor said:


> For the record, when I tried that with T Mobile - and I'd been with them for 14 years - the answer was a pretty resolute "fuck you."
> 
> Are you sure you want to sign up for a 2 year deal anyway? Why not buy a phone outright and go for a super cheap GiffGaff deal?


 
Can't afford it at the moment. I'll give T-Mobile a try though and ask if I keep my 3GS a few months after the contract runs out could I have a shorter contract when I get a new phone. I guess the answer will be fuck off but delivered in a sweet Sunderland accent - their call centre is actually very good. Once I went overdrawn and they called to say could I phone them when I had money back in my account as they didn't want to put through another standing order to make me incur bank charges. Can't imagine other utilities doing that especial Thames Water the bastards.


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Might well have a look at that but I've just been using Apple stuff for so long it seems like a hassle.


I swapped from Android to Palm to iPhone to Palm back to Android and it was pretty much a seamless process throughout. Good luck with T Mobile. They were such shits with me I left them immediately.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 8, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> I can get a 4S in a couple of weeks once my contract is up but I really don't want to be stuck with one for two years. Is it worth grinding it out for 6 months on my 3GS? Will the 5 come out in summer or later?
> I really don;t want to go onto Android but it is actually crossing my mind.



I wouldn't worry, if an iPhone is what you want there's no chance of the new one for at least 6 months and pretty much all apps will continue to run on the 4S too. The next two versions of iOS will probably run ok too on it (iOS5 ran fine on my two a bit year old 3GS).

Moving to Android isn't really that big a deal at all contacts wise, you can easily sync with a google account then log in via the same account and these days most of the good apps are on it (with the exception of things like the excellent Flipboard) and the phones tend to be  cheaper. There's a number of long running Android threads on here that I'd suggest you have a look at and ask questions of those who use them day to day.

I'd then suggest you go have a play with both devices to get a feel for what you like using. Smartphones are so similar these days (especially as they're app focused) that direct user experience is helpful.

Hope that's useful!


----------



## twistedAM (Feb 8, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I wouldn't worry, if an iPhone is what you want there's no chance of the new one for at least 6 months and pretty much all apps will continue to run on the 4S too. The next two versions of iOS will probably run ok too on it (iOS5 ran fine on my two a bit year old 3GS).
> 
> Moving to Android isn't really that big a deal at all contacts wise, you can easily sync with a google account then log in via the same account and these days most of the good apps are on it (with the exception of things like the excellent Flipboard) and the phones tend to be cheaper. There's a number of long running Android threads on here that I'd suggest you have a look at and ask questions of those who use them day to day.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah it is useful. You mentioned Google.
Fuck that after the bother I had with them on my Places account and also Google+ seems clumsy to me.


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## 2hats (Feb 8, 2012)

You ought to be wary of Siri...


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 8, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Yeah it is useful. You mentioned Google.
> Fuck that after the bother I had with them on my Places account and also Google+ seems clumsy to me.



Yeah G+ has a little further to go but that means you have a google account and could easily sync your key data then sync it with your new Android device. Staying with iOS is obviously a little easier but not by much.


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## spanglechick (Feb 11, 2012)

T-mobile, who i already have my 3G with, have now introduced an unlimited data package for £36/month.  Which means no need to use the 3 network (amidst concerns over customer service probs).  Also, t-mobile shares network with orange, which i've found really useful.

anyway, i'd been procrastinating over the switch to 3, because of the faff of porting my number. Now i don't have to. 4s ordered (£99 for the 16GB on 24mth contract).


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## editor (Feb 11, 2012)

£36/month is well pricey.


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## spanglechick (Feb 11, 2012)

yes - but if you can't afford to buy any smartphone outright, then giffgaff and its ilk are bugger all good to you.


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## editor (Feb 11, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> yes - but if you can't afford to buy any smartphone outright, then giffgaff and its ilk are bugger all good to you.


Even my iPhone 18 month contract deal didn't cost as much as that.


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## spanglechick (Feb 11, 2012)

no - nor mine, but that was a while ago, and contracts with unlimited data now cost this kind of money.


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## 2hats (Feb 11, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> yes - but if you can't afford to buy any smartphone outright, then giffgaff and its ilk are bugger all good to you.


 
Or if you venture outside the M25 where Giffgaff's MVNO host O2 becomes NO2 (no signal, or signal laughable).
Across the rest of the UK T-Mobile/Orange/EE coverage knocks O2 into a cocked hat.

Still, >£400 p.a. is indeed a fair old pot of loot. Some variation like SIM only for a couple of hundred mins&texts/month, 'unlimited' data for £10 or thereabout would be welcome.


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## spanglechick (Feb 11, 2012)

but only if you're wealthy enough to be able to afford the handset outright. Only a tiny minority of smartphone users are likely to have that kind of disposable income.


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## maldwyn (Feb 11, 2012)

I saved to be able to afford to buy my IP4 outright - as a person on a small income it worked out to be the cheapest option on a PAYG tariff.


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## editor (Feb 11, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> but only if you're wealthy enough to be able to afford the handset outright. Only a tiny minority of smartphone users are likely to have that kind of disposable income.


Well, that very much depends on what smartphone you're buying! There's loads of excellent and very affordable smartphones out there.


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## spanglechick (Feb 11, 2012)

maldwyn - it's priorities.  i'd save for a holiday, a once in a lifetime experience that i'd always remember, because that feels worth it. but if i save for the holiday i can't save for other things, like a phone. however, i can have the phone now if i absorb a few quid more a month from what i'm currently paying for my phone bill. 

my phone would cost £499, outright.  I'll be paying £963 in total (contract plus £99 up front). If I take away the £499, that's £465 for calls/unlimited data... which is £19.38 a month. Which seems like a bearable price to pay for calls and data, plus the luxury of having the phone right now.

editor - i don't want to lose my apps, and i've had no complaints with my experience of the iphone i've got. plus, they're hellish pretty.


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## editor (Feb 11, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> editor - i don't want to lose my apps, and i've had no complaints with my experience of the iphone i've got. plus, they're hellish pretty.


Well, you pays yer money, you makes yer choice


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## spanglechick (Feb 11, 2012)

yup - and at no point did i complain about the price, you'll notice. that was you.


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## maldwyn (Feb 11, 2012)

Spanglechick, I get what you're saying, in my case I wanted a shiny new iPhone more than I wanted a holiday 

What I found more appealing was the iP4 was the first iPhone to be offered unlocked therefore not requiring a monthly standing order with a network which was always a stumbling block for me.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 11, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> yes - but if you can't afford to buy any smartphone outright, then giffgaff and its ilk are bugger all good to you.



Yup and you're right if you want a proper data deal this is what you end up paying. I value data over everything else so paid the price...


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 10, 2012)

Speaking of data...this is very neat!



Sign up here.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Mar 10, 2012)

I don't understand . Why not just use the hotspot option on your phone?


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 10, 2012)

That has to be allowed by your carrier. This gets round that.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Mar 10, 2012)

ah, didnt realise some carriers were disallowing that.


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## editor (Mar 10, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That has to be allowed by your carrier. This gets round that.


For $30 a year!


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 10, 2012)

Thats a MASSIVE $00.08 a day! Far better than the idiotic prices hotels or trains try to charge for wifi access. This is perfect for road warriors!


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## 2hats (Mar 10, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> ah, didnt realise some carriers were disallowing that.


 
It tends to be that the carriers charge extra to tether with iPhones (in the UK at least) whereas Android users get to tether using their standard data allowance. Unless you jailbreak the iPhone and tweak it.

Am wondering how long it'll be before Apple cripple it with an update much as they yanked the tethering app from the same folks within a day of it appearing in the app store.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Mar 10, 2012)

Hmm , it's not like that here. I get 10gig a month data allowance which is enough for me to use my iphone as my internet connection. Speed varies, but my providers hardware are in Sweden over the sea.


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## 2hats (Mar 10, 2012)

I think the tendency to milk iPhone users for additional costs for tethering (rather than the sane approach of counting it towards your monthly data allowance) is a malady most commonly experienced with US and UK carriers.


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## 2hats (Mar 10, 2012)

I should add - when I use my jezuz phone on Orange in the UK I can't tether (without paying extra). When I use it in Italy on TIM (local SIM card) I can tether without paying extra - it just counts towards my data allowance.


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## elbows (Mar 10, 2012)

One of the reasons I switched to an Android phone was to get tethering without needing the carrier to enable it. Kind of a silly situation really as I wanted the tethering to use with an iPad


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## Bungle73 (Mar 10, 2012)

I can tether with my iPhone 4 no problems on 3 PAYG, without paying extra. There's a reason for this, but I don't recall what it is.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 10, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I can tether with my iPhone 4 no problems on 3 PAYG, without paying extra. There's a reason for this, but I don't recall what it is.



Apparently on certain data tarrifs on 3 you can tether at no extra cost, can't seem to get it to work tho...


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## maldwyn (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm really liking the fast camera slide-up update.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 13, 2012)

Yeah that's pretty neat.


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## editor (Mar 13, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I'm really liking the fast camera slide-up update.


It's a great feature that Android users have been enjoying for some considerable time


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 13, 2012)

So?


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## editor (Mar 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So?


I'm delighted that iPhone users can now enjoy this very useful Android feature too.


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## elbows (Mar 18, 2012)

Having initially been impressed with how 'normal' people at work and my dad were very interested in Siri, I should report back that eventually this just became another gimmick that they didn't end up using day-to-day.


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## maldwyn (Mar 18, 2012)

I think that's because it's still in beta and most peoples experience hasn't matched Apple's promises.

At the moment it's a massive fail - but that will be fixed.


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## editor (Mar 18, 2012)

elbows said:


> Having initially been impressed with how 'normal' people at work and my dad were very interested in Siri, I should report back that eventually this just became another gimmick that they didn't end up using day-to-day.


Yep, and it seems a bit fraudulent for Apple to promote it so heavily in their adverts as a glitch-free product.

The first law suit is up and running too:


> Frank Fazio, a resident of New York, has filed a case claiming that Apple is misleading its customers to buy the product. According to the Fazio, the advertisement of Apple about Siri app is misleading and deceptive.
> 
> The case that has been filed against Apple states that the Siri is shown to be scheduling appointments, finding local restaurants and even learning guitar strings while in reality the application does not perform on the device as it is advertised. The complainant also claims that as a result of the misleading messages about the iPhone 4S's Siri feature, conveyed through its nationwide advertising and marketing campaign, Apple has been able to charge a significant price premium for the iPhone 4S.
> Apple's Siri assistant is known for causing errors and problems are being face by users across the globe but this is the first time ever that someone has opted for such an elaborate action. The plaintiff also claimed that had Apple not advertised the Siri assistant in this way, he would not have brought the iPhone 4S.


 http://www.themobileindian.com/news/5697_Apple-faces-legal-suit-for-misleading-Siri-Ad


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## elbows (Mar 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I think that's because it's still in beta and most peoples experience hasn't matched Apple's promises.
> 
> At the moment it's a massive fail - but that will be fixed.


 
I expect them to fix the missing bits of the UK service (businesses etc) by partnering with someone eventually, but when it comes to speech recognition I need hold my breath waiting for that to improve, feels like decades since its been 'nearly good enough'.


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## Dr. Furface (Mar 20, 2012)

Anyone know how to delete photos from the photos stream on 4s? I can delete from the camera roll but not the stream, it doesn't give me the option for some reason and I'm fed up of trying.


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## Bungle73 (Mar 20, 2012)

Dr. Furface said:


> Anyone know how to delete photos from the photos stream on 4s? I can delete from the camera roll but not the stream, it doesn't give me the option for some reason and I'm fed up of trying.


Are you running iOS 5.1?


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## Dr. Furface (Mar 20, 2012)

No, why?


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## Bungle73 (Mar 20, 2012)

Dr. Furface said:


> No, why?


Because that's the only iOS version that allows to you to delete photos from the photo stream.  It's a new feature.


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## Dr. Furface (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks so much, I owe u one! I'll install it now, thanks again!


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 20, 2012)

elbows said:


> I expect them to fix the missing bits of the UK service (businesses etc) by partnering with someone eventually, but when it comes to speech recognition I need hold my breath waiting for that to improve, feels like decades since its been 'nearly good enough'.



Yup.


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## elbows (Mar 21, 2012)

Damn I just noticed a completely wrong word in the post you quoted. I hate this auto-correct in Safari, must tinker around to get it switched off as Id rather have typos than whole words changing.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Mar 21, 2012)

It can be somewhat sannkoti g so can tl you the random shit that comes out when typing in a rush or as part of a text message cones ratio


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## Bungle73 (Mar 21, 2012)

Why don't you just cancel the corrections?


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## elbows (Mar 21, 2012)

Because I often type so much that Im not paying full attention.


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

Can you get SwiftKey for iOS?


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## Crispy (Mar 21, 2012)

The keyboard is not open for 3rd party modification on iOS.


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The keyboard is not open for 3rd party modification on iOS.


Jesus. Why the fuck not?


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The keyboard is not open for 3rd party modification on iOS.



Is that strictly true? I'm sure I've added smileys to mine using an app in the past?


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## Crispy (Mar 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is that strictly true? I'm sure I've added smileys to mine using an app in the past?


Maybe you did this?
http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57341289-285/how-to-enable-ios-5s-native-emoji-keyboard/


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

SwiftKey makes a huge difference. It's insane that Apple won't let people use it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Maybe you did this?
> http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57341289-285/how-to-enable-ios-5s-native-emoji-keyboard/



Nope this was before ios5.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

On another 4S related topic, just back from Berlin, didn't take my point and shoot with me and didn't miss it once. From Checkpoint Charlie to the East Side Gallery the 4S did a superb job as a holiday camera!

One thing I noticed was a remarkable amount of people using iPads to take photos with...very strange but popular it seems.


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## Bungle73 (Mar 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> One thing I noticed was a remarkable amount of people using iPads to take photos with...very strange but popular it seems.


I've seen that too, at Kew Gardens of all places.  Seems a bit odd to me.


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

Be _such_ a shame if folks blocking the view of others at concerts by taking pictures with their iPads found their screens being dented by airborne pints.

I was at an art event a few weeks back and had some fucking idiot holding an iPad in the way of what I was trying to look at. I don't think anyone else around was impressed either.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I've seen that too, at Kew Gardens of all places.  Seems a bit odd to me.



Yup I can't see the value in it either, especially as the camera isn't that great compared to the 4S...


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 30, 2012)

This is a great list of free apps for the iPhone, plenty on here are my favourites and in heavy use but there's a few I'd not heard of. Check it out!


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## DieselBar (May 18, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The keyboard is not open for 3rd party modification on iOS.


 
Jailbreaked my 4s (4s only untethered on 5.01 atm) this week and installed iswipe, its an unofficial port of swype, think it will be pretty good speedwise when i get used to it.

Jailbreak was very easy and well worth it, also installed;

*ifile*; root access to filesystem, webserver to upload/download files or can use webdav
*sbsettings*; quick access to wifi/gps on/off etc from notification centre or across swipe, nice time saver
*zephr*; really good, adds very intuitive gestures to close apps (swipe down) open multitask switcher (swipe up) etc.
*activator*; can customise what phone buttons do, not tried yet

Grabbed SNES AD+ snes emulator as well but performance isn't great, any other recommendations?


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## Structaural (May 21, 2012)

I always liked BiteSMS, Lockinfo and speedintensifier (and loads others but I can't remember them).


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## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2012)

It's that time again when the wild speculation on the next iPhone is accompanied by leaks, rumours and anti Apple types frothing at the mouth in OCD levels incredulity! The new iPhone 5? 














> Following today's leaked photos of a claimed next-generation iPhone part containing the back plate and sides of the unreleased device, _9to5Mac_ has received more photosshowing these same parts in black and white, as well as a mid-frame plate.


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## Bungle73 (May 29, 2012)

I've learnt to learnt most of the info floating around before a new i device launch, but those look interesting.

In other news - Apple to dump Google Maps in next iOS update: http://mashable.com/2012/05/29/apple-3d-map/


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## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2012)

Yup, it's interesting that there's a sudden deluge of new rumours, looks like controlled leaks ahead of the WWDC which will have the products they want to sell, probably the new OS X and updated MacBook Pros...


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## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2012)

Good move to dump Google maps though, the sooner Apple extract themselves from Google's 'services' the better it will be for the company given their corporate strategy.


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## Bungle73 (May 29, 2012)

I like Google Maps.  Who knows if this new service will be any good.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I like Google Maps. Who knows if this new service will be any good.


 
I'm not fussed who the map provider is tbh, can't see that they'd choose shite though, they've been buying up mapping companies over the last three or four years so must have some internal knowledge in this area now...


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## editor (May 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Good move to dump Google maps though, the sooner Apple extract themselves from Google's 'services' the better it will be for the company given their corporate strategy.


Why do you think Apple's strategy will be any better?


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## Crispy (May 29, 2012)

editor said:


> Why do you think Apple's strategy will be any better?


Better for the company. They can afford an in house mapping platform just as good as google's, which they can control and tailor to their own OS and strategy.


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## editor (May 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Better for the company. They can afford an in house mapping platform just as good as google's, which they can control and tailor to their own OS and strategy.


Oh, I'm sure it'll be just grand for the company. I was thinking more of consumers, given Apple's walled-garden, ban happy, sometimes-moralistic strategies.


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## Crispy (May 29, 2012)

Ah, well KE mentioned the company specifically.

For the user, I don't imagine there will be any noticeable difference. I'm not sure I understand how Apple's walled garden app store or occasional moralistic stance affects their mapping platform.


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## editor (May 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> For the user, I don't imagine there will be any noticeable difference. I'm not sure I understand how Apple's walled garden app store or occasional moralistic stance affects their mapping platform.


You really can't think of any circumstances where Apple might block devs from using their mapping data or perhaps unlist certain things? Oh well, time will tell.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Better for the company. They can afford an in house mapping platform just as good as google's, which they can control and tailor to their own OS and strategy.


 
Indeed, Apple makes huge amounts of money due to a core strategy of controlling as much of their business as possible. Dumping products by their competitors from their devices makes perfect sense. For the consumer it's also good to have competition, the more big companies back different mapping products the better imo given how important mapping and location are and will continue to be.


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## Crispy (May 29, 2012)

Meanwhile, the breadth of Apple's supply chain makes these part leaks inevitable now. The days of complete surprise announcements are pretty much over.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Meanwhile, the breadth of Apple's supply chain makes these part leaks inevitable now. The days of complete surprise announcements are pretty much over.


 
Perhaps, funny how they tend to come when there's a major Apple related event close by though...


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## editor (May 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Meanwhile, the breadth of Apple's supply chain makes these part leaks inevitable now. The days of complete surprise announcements are pretty much over.


If that is the new iPhone then I don't think it'll have Samsung breaking out in a cold sweat.


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## Crispy (May 29, 2012)

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

I remind the jury that I own a £20 Nokia.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
> 
> I remind the jury that I own a £20 Nokia.


 
Nokia are a good example of were Android is headed. Over saturation will kick the growth and lead to it's demise which will serve Microsoft well. Of course I could have made all that up because as you say FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!


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## Crispy (May 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Perhaps, funny how they tend to come when there's a major Apple related event close by though...


Not really. If a product is about to be announced, then they need to have plenty of inventory ready to sell. More phones being made means more people building them. More people means a greater chance that one of them will leak photos of the parts.


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## editor (May 29, 2012)

Plus more public interest = more blogs posting made-up shite.


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## Crispy (May 30, 2012)

editor said:


> Plus more public interest = more blogs posting made-up shite.


This used to be the case, with all sorts of dodgy mockups and crap photoshops doing the rounds. In the last year or two, photographs of the genuine parts have been available in the months leading up to the launch of a product. As soon as I fixit etc. do their teardowns, the photos are confirmed. Their manufacturing chain is just too big to remain watertight now.


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