# Employment Agencies That Charge Employees Fees



## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

I have been warned off using employment agencies that if they try to charge the employee as well as the employer, you should stay away as they are clearly shysters. This was advice from the DWP of all people. 
Is this true? Are there any circumstances where it is acceptable to charge employees for a recruitment service?
I personally feel it should be illegal rather than just seen as bad practice.
I'm also inclined to publish the name of an agency that wants to charge me £3K to find me a low-paying job, but is this bad form to do so on a public message board. Will the mods get stick?


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## zenie (Dec 13, 2012)

Why would it be bad from? You're not breaking the law. 

Employment agencies are generally scum, whether they charge or not, they get their fees off the employers as it should be.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

What do you mean? I said it was bad form, ie unethical and should be illegal


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> What do you mean? I said it was bad form, ie unethical and should be illegal


 
She means bad form to post it up.

I can't see it would be either. If that's their business model you can't libel them by saying so.


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## Fruitloop (Dec 13, 2012)

I thought it _was_ illegal?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 13, 2012)

Fruitloop said:


> I thought it _was_ illegal?


 
Seems so: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla...workers_e/can_your_agency_charge_you_fees.htm

Report the cunts.

ETA: With a bit more looking it appears this is a criminal offence. They can get a fine and be banned from running an employment agency. Which would be unfortunate for them.


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## Dan U (Dec 13, 2012)

post it up
report the cunts x2

thats like gangmaster shit


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## Manter (Dec 13, 2012)

It is illegal in certain industries, I don't know more widely

Never ever pay.... It is just ridiculous, there is no reason to, it's a scam. They are not providing 3k of value!

The only situation in which it is REMOTELY reasonable to charge is if you get something in return eg a membership card of an professional organisation, a visa. Even then, the charge should be proportionate, not compulsory, not in advance and whatever you get should be transferable.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 13, 2012)

Have you got it in writing that they want to charge you?


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## Dan U (Dec 13, 2012)

maybe lots of us could ring up and enquire about registering with them and then call them cunts.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Have you got it in writing that they want to charge you?


It's an ad on Gumtree. I'm on my phone right now, but am doing a job search in the library later, so will post details then.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> She means bad form to post it up.
> 
> I can't see it would be either. If that's their business model you can't libel them by saying so.


Ah right, got the wrong end of the stick


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## golightly (Dec 13, 2012)

£3k!? So, essentially, they will be getting a substantial cut of your salary every month and presumably sending debt collectors if you lose your job.  Nice.


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## cesare (Dec 13, 2012)

As already stated, they aren't allowed to do this. The Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate is a government body (part of department of Business and Information, BIS, Vince Cable's mob) that enforces the regulatory framework. There's a helpline if you want to check it out further 0800 9172368 and lots of info here: https://www.gov.uk/employment-agencies-and-businesses


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

golightly said:


> £3k!? So, essentially, they will be getting a substantial cut of your salary every month and presumably sending debt collectors if you lose your job. Nice.


it sounds like the sort of thread ou wouldn't want to post, i'm being chased by an employment agency


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## Ax^ (Dec 13, 2012)

Chased for what


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> it sounds like the sort of thread ou wouldn't want to post, i'm being chased by an employment agency


Pardon?


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

here they are: 
http://www.simplytajobs.co.uk/
£295 registration fee!


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Mayfair business address!


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

it seems that the £3K is for a 'training programme', so perhaps that's how they get away with it legally. but what about the £295 reg fee?


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## cesare (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> here they are:
> http://www.simplytajobs.co.uk/
> £295 registration fee!



That's payment for a training programme - not placement fees.


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## cesare (Dec 13, 2012)

It's a training provider, not an employment agency. By the looks of it.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

"If you can’t afford the £2,995 upfront payment amount then Simply TA Jobs also offers budget package which allows you to use our ‘pay as you work’ system. For an initial payment of as little as £495 you can join the programme and then pay the remaining fees in affordable monthly instalments of £200 once you are in your Teaching Assistance role with an average starting salary of £25,000." Since when was an average TA salary £25K? It's more like £16K


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

cesare said:


> It's a training provider, not an employment agency. By the looks of it.


they seem to be both. but i smell a rat.  i bet you apply and then they tell you they can't put you forward for any jobs unless you do the course.


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## Dan U (Dec 13, 2012)

they say the average pay is £20k and £22k on the homepage alone

scamsters i reckon


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Pardon?


given your previous posts about such mishaps as being done for fare evasion, i wouldn't have been surprised if you'd ended up being chased by a dodgy employment agency. not to put too fine a point on it, you're not lucky.


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## cesare (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> they seem to be both. but i smell a rat.  i bet you apply and then they tell you they can't put you forward for any jobs unless you do the course.


Ring the helpline number I gave you, and get them to check it out. The EAS lot are pretty much on it compared to many govt bodies.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> given your previous posts about such mishaps as being done for fare evasion, i wouldn't have been surprised if you'd ended up being chased by a dodgy employment agency. not to put too fine a point on it, you're not lucky.


why do you feel the need to point this out? you're a nice guy in real life. why are you so malicious online?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

i wasn't being malicious, i was pointing out it would be a thread you wouldn't like posting.

and pointing out you're not lucky isn't malicious, it's true.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i wasn't being malicious, i was pointing out it would be a thread you wouldn't like posting.
> 
> and pointing out you're not lucky isn't malicious, it's true.


liar


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> liar


so how have you been lucky recently?


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> so how have you been lucky recently?


that's not what you are lying about. now please stop responding to me if that's all you have to say on this thread.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

good luck with getting a job


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

cesare said:


> Ring the helpline number I gave you, and get them to check it out. The EAS lot are pretty much on it compared to many govt bodies.


Thank, i just did. the £3k for a course is legal but ethically questionable. they might be breaking the law about registration though, so I'm going to report them online.


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## cesare (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Thank, i just did. the £3k for a course is legal but ethically questionable. they might be breaking the law about registration though, so I'm going to report them online.


They might get a visit and audit as a result. EAS do proper swoops, with a timeframe to comply, and penalties etc.


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## weltweit (Dec 13, 2012)

FYI OU, none of these charge:

reed.co.uk
jobserve.com
jobsearch.co.uk
JobSite.co.uk
totaljobs.com
Monster.co.uk


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

i reported it. i won't get any feedback, so will just see if their ad disappears or not, i suppose.
i have a feeling that they know what they are doing though, and are deftly skirting the line of legality


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

weltweit said:


> FYI OU, none of these charge:
> 
> reed.co.uk
> jobserve.com
> ...


thanks, i am well aware of those kinds of site. only the first one is an agency though. 
i get way too many emails from totaljob and monster for shit jobs i have no interest in doing, but have to apply for to keep DWP/WP people off my back.


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## cesare (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> i reported it. i won't get any feedback, so will just see if their ad disappears or not, i suppose.
> i have a feeling that they know what they are doing though, and are deftly skirting the line of legality


It would be interesting to know which schools etc recruit their candidates.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

cesare said:


> It would be interesting to know which schools etc recruit their candidates.


i'm not sure if they place people directly into posts. it's not clear.
but there are schools out there who must use dodgy agencies. i have already encountered one that advertised on the old direct.gov.uk website


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## weltweit (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> thanks, i am well aware of those kinds of site. only the first one is an agency though.
> i get way too many emails from totaljob and monster for shit jobs i have no interest in doing, but have to apply for to keep DWP/WP people off my back.


 
They only send me jobs according to very specific criteria I entered.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

weltweit said:


> They only send me jobs according to very specific criteria I entered.


yup. not that specific though.


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## cesare (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> i'm not sure if they place people directly into posts. it's not clear.
> but there are schools out there who must use dodgy agencies. i have already encountered one that advertised on the old direct.gov.uk website


They say they don't place people directly (another skirting round the agency regs) but I wondered if they had a system for getting adverts/vacancies iyswim.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

cesare said:


> They say they don't place people directly (another skirting round the agency regs) but I wondered if they had a system for getting adverts/vacancies iyswim.


 
From their site:


> Attend Job Interviews
> Simply TA Jobs works closely with some of the UK’s leading recruitment firms, head-hunters, large corporation and small and medium size businesses to fulfil their staffing needs. It is our reputation and close working relationships with some of the country’s top employers that allows us to continually receive a constant stream of exclusive and non-exclusive job openings on a daily basis. In order to fulfil these job openings and to maintain our reputation Simply TA Jobs actively recruits and develops new talent of Teaching Assistant professionals.
> You will be invited to attend Teaching Assistant Job Interviews with top employers in your city. For more information on the Locations we cover click here.
> Get a Teaching Assistant Job
> After successfully passing your interview, you will receive a job in teaching assistance professional and could earn up to £20,000.


so are they saying they will find you a job or are they skirting round it?


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## cesare (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> From their site:
> 
> so are they saying they will find you a job or are they skirting round it?


It's not clear (or at least, it's not clear to me). I'd say skirting, but I think one would have to actually try the process to see how it works.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

cesare said:


> It's not clear (or at least, it's not clear to me). I'd say skirting, but I think one would have to actually try the process to see how it works.


Indeed. I don't have £295 to spare to find out whether they are scamsters or not.


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 13, 2012)

at the whole thing.

and  at 



> Simply TA Jobs works closely with some of the UK’s leading recruitment firms, head-hunters, large corporation and small and medium size businesses to fulfil their staffing needs.


 
wouldn't they do better working with schools and education authorities?

 at the qualification they mention not being listed here (national careers service page re teaching assistant work)

I must admit to knowing next to sod all about getting into working with children (it's fairly high on my 'not with a barge pole' list of career choices) but I am aware there are scam training courses (e.g. plumbing / electrician - a mate nearly got stung by one) where the advert makes it sound like you'll get fully C&G qualified and be able to earn a huge income at the end of the course, but all you get is one small theoretical part of the C&G course which is worth naff all on its own.

I'd also have thought that any course would be available from local colleges potentially cheaper than some profit making company - I'm not saying that all private sector training providers are con-artists, but...

and a further  at use of a 'virtual office' (i.e. accommodation address) in Berkley Square. They sound more like a load of berkeley hunts.

I think you need to approach this from the opposite direction - find out from potential employers what qualifications / experience they are looking for (even job adverts will probably tell you) then talk to your local college/s

Best of luck.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

The course is totally unnecessary. I don't know any TAs who have that certificate. NVQs are usually the only required certification and a degree makes up for lack of NVQs.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I think you need to approach this from the opposite direction - find out from potential employers what qualifications / experience they are looking for (even job adverts will probably tell you) then talk to your local college/s
> 
> Best of luck.


thanks, i already have a fair idea what is needed and where to look etc, but i just came across this firm on my search for work. i never intended to use them or anyone like them.


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 13, 2012)

I still think we should consider ringing up and calling them cunts


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

i'm psyching myself up to do it. i think i need a script though as i will end up lapsing into an incoherent rant.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 13, 2012)

The 'earn up to £20,000' made me laugh. I've never met a TA on anything like that!


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## Dan U (Dec 13, 2012)

> Hi,
> 
> I have some questions. I am looking in to becoming a TA but i am a bit confused by what you are saying and offering.
> 
> ...


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## Pingu (Dec 13, 2012)

this reminds me of a scam(ish) type thing that was doing the IT rounds a few years back.

companies were offering to get people MCSE/CCNA "for free" etc and guarenteeing them a job at the end of it. the training consisted of the person getting a career development loan and then signing up to the agency side of the business who then fulfiled the "guarenteed job" part by placing them in really badly paid jobs with yet another part of the same group. OK they got a mcse/ccna out of it but were contractually tied to the company for up to 3 years who billed them out at 400 a day+ and paid them a salary of 20k


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

did you actually send it? good luck on getting a reply!


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## Dan U (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> did you actually send it? good luck on getting a reply!


 
yes i did!

i hate cunts like that.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

me too. but they're such a huge ripoff, that i'd be surprised if anyone would sign up with them.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> thanks, i am well aware of those kinds of site. only the first one is an agency though.
> i get way too many emails from totaljob and monster for shit jobs i have no interest in doing, but have to apply for to keep DWP/WP people off my back.


do you think most people in employment have any real interest in their jobs? beggars can't be choosers: buck up your ideas.

what you need to do is to identify where you want to be and a couple of intermediate jobs that will help you get there.

or you can languish on the rock. either suits me.


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## Dan U (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> me too. but they're such a huge ripoff, that i'd be surprised if anyone would sign up with them.


 
they must do though, or they wouldn't exist surely.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> do you think most people in employment have any real interest in their jobs? beggars can't be choosers: buck up your ideas.
> 
> what you need to do is to identify where you want to be and a couple of intermediate jobs that will help you get there.
> 
> or you can languish on the rock. either suits me.


i don't want to do any job that's not going to help me in my career path, so will remain on the dole until i can find one. i am aware that this clashes with the expectation of the DWP, but fuck em.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> what you need to do is to identify where you want to be and a couple of intermediate jobs that will help you get there.





Orang Utan said:


> i don't want to do any job that's not going to help me in my career path, so will remain on the dole until i can find one. i am aware that this clashes with the expectation of the DWP, but fuck em.


 
at the end of the day if you're not looking for something which will help you towards where you want to be you're getting yourself FURTHER from where you want to be. your skills are atrophying. your abilities are getting rusty. employers find people in a job much more attractive than people on the rock. but if you think your interests are better served waiting and waiting for something to turn up, go for it.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

what do you think the TA jobs I'm applying for are?
anyway, this is not about the my personal job search, but about scam artists ripping off desparate job seekers.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> what do you think the TA jobs I'm applying for are?
> anyway, this is not about the my personal job search, but about scam artists ripping off desparate job seekers.


how many jobs have you applied for in the last six months and how many interviews have you had?


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> how many jobs have you applied for in the last six months and how many interviews have you had?


i'm not discussing it with you.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> i'm not discussing it with you.


that bad eh? you should see about improving your ratio.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> that bad eh? you should see about improving your ratio.


i asked you to stop. please stop.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

i have. i can't do anything for you until you want to do it for yourself.

but you might try http://www.select.co.uk/


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## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Stop being a cunt and ruining this thread. You are not trying to help. You are trying to needle me and it's working.
I hope you feel proud that you have achieved your target.
You really are a nasty piece of work. I don't know why Mrs Magpie tolerates you.


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 13, 2012)

I didn't know DWP carried out their interviews on U75 now


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## zenie (Dec 13, 2012)

Fuck off Pickmans


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I don't know why Mrs Magpie tolerates you.


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## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

If the off-topic beef doesn't vanish from this thread soon, the festive banning stick may have to come out.


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## equationgirl (Dec 13, 2012)

That company name is not registered with companies house. Sounds like a scammer who knows enough to have a professional-_looking_ website.


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## toggle (Dec 13, 2012)

i'd want to ask who their course is accredited by.


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## Dan U (Dec 14, 2012)

i've not had any reply yet funnily enough.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 14, 2012)

Shall we ask them about the point EG uncovered?


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## Dan U (Dec 14, 2012)

definitely. send them an email!


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## TopCat (Dec 14, 2012)

Be nice you two!


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 14, 2012)

If you're going to send them an e-mail, would stand a better chance of a response if it's worded along the lines of "I am interested in signing up, but have a minor concern about X" rather than "you sound like a bunch of chiselling twunts, what about X?"


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## Orang Utan (Dec 14, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Be nice you two!


Of course, you'd get nowhere sending a hostile letter accusing them of being cunts.


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## TopCat (Dec 14, 2012)

Can't we be friends here and just persecute the fuckers in question?


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## Orang Utan (Dec 14, 2012)

ah, I see
<waits for TopCat to finish reading the thread>


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 14, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> From their site:
> 
> so are they saying they will find you a job or are they skirting round it?


 
That's appallingly badly-written, whether it's a scam or not, but yeah, they're skirting. They've put in the qualifier "After successfully passing your interview...", so they've pretty much covered their arses if you don't get a job. They can just blame the way you presented yourself at the interview, or some other nebulous bullshit.


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## equationgirl (Dec 14, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Shall we ask them about the point EG uncovered?


If you do, a good way would be to ask them who to make a cheque payable to


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## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2012)

The site is still up and they way they advertise on Gumtree is certainly misleading:
http://www.gumtree.com/p/jobs/teach...o-experience-necessary--up-to-25000/112480007


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## marty21 (Dec 28, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> it seems that the £3K is for a 'training programme', so perhaps that's how they get away with it legally. but what about the £295 reg fee?


Years ago I went for an interview for a recruitment consultant job - they told me that there was a 6 week training period for which I wouldn't get paid, then it was commission based earnings from then on - I asked them how I was expected to live on no money for 6 weeks, they said they would lend me £2000, I then said, so if I get to the end of the training period, and I'm not cut out for the work, I would have worked for nothing for 6 weeks and owe you £2000 - they said yes - I said no


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 28, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> The site is still up and they way they advertise on Gumtree is certainly misleading:
> http://www.gumtree.com/p/jobs/teach...o-experience-necessary--up-to-25000/112480007


 


worth reporting to gumtree as against the rules, as it's not a genuine vacancy, which is against the rules.  Snag is these buggers (and similar) post loads of times a day...



> No ads offering services
> The Jobs listings are for people looking to offer specific vacancies and not for individuals or businesses offering their services to potential customers.   If you have services to offer multiple customers (anything from tuition to cleaning services to removals) then please post your ad in 'Business Services'.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm gonna call them up shortly after NY, with a script and a festivity-related filthy mood


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## equationgirl (Dec 28, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm gonna call them up shortly after NY, with a script and a festivity-related filthy mood


I shall look forward to your report of this


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## Firky (Dec 28, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm gonna call them up shortly after NY, with a script and a festivity-related filthy mood


 
Record it.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2012)

I don't know how?!? Can you record conversations on an iPhone?


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