# Sorry, another benefits question



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

We are now in a situation where we have little to no money coming in at all. 

I am signed off of work sick with mental health problems but have been for so long that I am no longer receiving any pay. But I am still technically employed. 

The hubby is working the odd day here and there but it is not enough to even get us through the week on living costs. 

We are relying on the good will of our parents giving us money at the moment but this can't go on. 

Any advice as to what kind of benefits we may be entitled to and how to go about getting them would be really appreciated. Baring in mind that I sometimes find it difficult to go out the house. But the husband can. 

I am mainly thinking housing and council tax benefit at the moment but would be interested to know what I am entitled to in sickness benefit considering I am still employed but receiving no money from them. 

The gov HB benefit calculator site seems to be down at the moment....?


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## Yetman (Jan 7, 2013)

Hey Kitty, sorry to hear that mate, hope things work out soon for you x

In advice, my wife is in a similar situation - she ended up having to leave her job because she wasn't getting any sick pay so it was pointless still being employed as it'd be at least a year before she could consider returning to work. In as far as benefits go, the govt are absolute fuckers mate, they will do everything possible to drag it out and reduce the payable amount. The thing is, as you've been off work for so long they should be able to start paying you from the minute you're no longer employed (you have to be signed off for 3 months before they'll consider disability).

The payments arent a lot, depending on the severity of your illness that is. Badgers might be able to get carers allowance, and you should get something toward council tax and housing benefit so get onto it asap - you can get crisis loans and stuff in the meantime if you're really strapped. Hopefully you'll get some more advice soon but first thing to do is get on the phone and start getting some info towards council tax and HB payments. Then consider your options re: work/ESA/DLA - if you get a good advisor they can be really helpful (though the majority of them are overworked overstressed and not that helpful I'm afraid)


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks Yetty

I am not bad enough for Badgers to get a carers allowance (although my situation sometimes has impacted his working situation) and sometimes I am well enough to go out, have people over etc but due to the nature of my stupid head, it can at any moment implode iyswim? 
I have been signed off of work for nearly a year and am being treated by the Community Mental Health team so I guess that is all evidence of my situation. 
I am not sure what to do about work though, If I am the one to leave, rather than my contract being terminated by them, does that make a difference? 
Oh and to add insult to injury, work were over paying me as they didn't move me down a sick pay band at the right time so I owe them money 

I am sure we will be entitled to HB and CTB but I am not sure how to go about getting the ball rolling. 

God this is making me feel really shaky and sick even thinking about it but I am having an ok couple of days and need to try and get stuff sorted before things fuck up again.


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## whoha (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi ,with regards the housing or council tax benefit just phone your local council office.The sooner the better I think because in my experience  they only pay from the day you claim.


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## geminisnake (Jan 7, 2013)

You need to get in touch with your local council. Iirc they(Lambeth) are not the most helpful/competent in the country, but really are any of them? 
Is Badgers entitled to JSA, has he looked at signing on? Again that's not great atm but it would give you some income and should also make getting HB/CTB easier.
Afaik the initial claim is all done by phone now. Hopefully someone can give you the right number(I have no idea about signing on)
You might be better to get in touch with CAB or local equivalent(welfare rights) re your employment situation. I was advised to quit my job but that was over 10 yrs ago.
Also you need to do all this sooner rather than later coz they(council/DWP) can all be arses about backdated claims. Good luck hun xx


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## Dan U (Jan 7, 2013)

nothing really to add as not had much experience of the benefits system for the last 15 years or so but GOOD LUCK to both of you 

the only thing i would advise was to be cautious of being 'intentionally unemployed'. I don't know the situation re: leaving on health grounds but be wary of that. the only time i did sign on i got deemed as this and they stopped paying me some benefits, by the time i'd sorted it out i had another job.


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## Paulbray67 (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi Kitty, may I suggest that if you have been diagnosed with a mental health condition and the fact that you are being seen by community mental health team, I would advise you to leave work and apply for ESA and DLA. If you have difficulty in leaving the address you can ask for the community mental health team to refer you to a support worker who will help you complete the forms needed for the ESA and DLA. just a little advice, take your time when completing the forms and make sure you don't undersell yourself when completing them. Be specific about what you can and can't do as they will use anything to try and not give you the benefits. Also ensure you put all the details of your medication on the forms as this speeds up the process. Hope this helps.


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## Firky (Jan 7, 2013)

I found Turn2us to be a good resource and sign posting service. IMO you should apply for ESA as you're signed off with an illness (for want of a better word).

All the benefits and stuff was all very daunting to me, it was all quite new and confusing but I found T2U and my social worker (you're given one when you have a transplant for some daft reason) to be invaluable so don't be afraid to seek help.

Best of luck to the pair of you.


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## Firky (Jan 7, 2013)

Shit. I think I have reported my own post. Sorry mods!


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## Badgers (Jan 7, 2013)

I am in the process of signing on today. Have made a claim in the last 6 months (unsuccessful due to part time work ) so should be easy enough. 

Regarding HB I am a little wary as we have a slightly dodgy landlord who probably wants to stay under the radar  and I suppose he would find out.


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

http://www.nihe.gov.uk/hb1_08.pdf

Bloody hell. 

Our landlord live in Ireland, no agent just a friend of his that sorts stuff out for him. 
They are not going to be happy about filling this in


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## Badgers (Jan 7, 2013)

firky said:


> Shit. I think I have reported my own post. Sorry mods!


 
You finally admit fault


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Dan U said:


> nothing really to add as not had much experience of the benefits system for the last 15 years or so but GOOD LUCK to both of you
> 
> the only thing i would advise was to be cautious of being 'intentionally unemployed'. I don't know the situation re: leaving on health grounds but be wary of that. the only time i did sign on i got deemed as this and they stopped paying me some benefits, by the time i'd sorted it out i had another job.


 
That's what I was thinking Dan in terms of leaving


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## Badgers (Jan 7, 2013)

Dan U said:


> the only thing i would advise was to be cautious of being 'intentionally unemployed'. I don't know the situation re: leaving on health grounds but be wary of that. the only time i did sign on i got deemed as this and they stopped paying me some benefits, by the time i'd sorted it out i had another job.


 


Paulbray67 said:


> I would advise you to leave work and apply for ESA and DLA.


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## Dan U (Jan 7, 2013)

yeah exactly, take some advice on that @Badgers and @kittyP it may be totally different for health reasons but just make sure


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

firky said:


> I found Turn2us to be a good resource and sign posting service. IMO you should apply for ESA as you're signed off with an illness (for want of a better word).
> 
> All the benefits and stuff was all very daunting to me, it was all quite new and confusing but I found T2U and my social worker (you're given one when you have a transplant for some daft reason) to be invaluable so don't be afraid to seek help.
> 
> Best of luck to the pair of you.


 
Ah I saw that site but thought I would check with others first before I hand over personal details to anyone.
Thanks Firky.


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## Firky (Jan 7, 2013)

Oh, I thought you had been signed off. Yeah, don't tell them a fucking thing 

They will shaft you. They will see a crack and open it up with crow bars and shit on in there.


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Paulbray67 said:


> Hi Kitty, may I suggest that if you have been diagnosed with a mental health condition and the fact that you are being seen by community mental health team, I would advise you to leave work and apply for ESA and DLA. If you have difficulty in leaving the address you can ask for the community mental health team to refer you to a support worker who will help you complete the forms needed for the ESA and DLA. just a little advice, take your time when completing the forms and make sure you don't undersell yourself when completing them. Be specific about what you can and can't do as they will use anything to try and not give you the benefits. Also ensure you put all the details of your medication on the forms as this speeds up the process. Hope this helps.


 
They are very iffy about giving people an actual, on paper diagnosis unfortunately


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

firky said:


> Oh, I thought you had been signed off. Yeah, don't tell them a fucking thing
> 
> They will shaft you. They will see a crack and open it up with crow bars and shit on in there.


 
I have been signed off of work since last February but I am still technically employed iyswim? 
Makes it extra fucking complicated


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## Firky (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I have been signed off of work since last February but I am still technically employed iyswim?
> Makes it extra fucking complicated


 
I was signed off by my employer but after X amount of time I went in and had a word with my manager. Explained the situation and I got my P45 a week later


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## Dan U (Jan 7, 2013)

firky said:


> I was signed off by my employer but after X amount of time I went in and had a word with my manager. Explained the situation and I got my P45 a week later


 
that is what i would be tempted to do tbh, if your employer is halfway reasonable it should suit all parties tbh.

but again only if i was sure i wasn't stitching myself.

lovely isn't it, at your most vulnerable, you have to fuck around worrying about clauses and rules and nonsense.


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

firky said:


> I was signed off by my employer but after X amount of time I went in and had a word with my manager. Explained the situation and I got my P45 a week later


 
I think that because I owe them money due to the fault of fucking incompetent payroll  they are not keen on letting me go.


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

I really have a feeling the HB claim could fall at the hurdle of iffy land lord


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## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

Kitty, you should be able to claim ESA as soon as SSP runs out from your employer (normally 28 weeks). Your employer should have given you an SSP1(T) form that supports your benefits claim and transfer to ESA.

Don't leave work! Also check out the holiday entitlement with work because that doesn't get confiscated when you're sick.

More info about transferring to ESA: http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/index/ssa/ssa-projects-and-initiatives/ssani-esa/esa-info-for-employers.htm

Edit: here's info from HMRC too http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/spmmanual/spm10855.htm and edited for clarity.


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## Firky (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I think that because I owe them money due to the fault of fucking incompetent payroll  they are not keen on letting me go.


 
They don't want to let you go because you're ghetto fabulous, Kitty 

Best of luck, man, I am out of my depth there but with regards to the payroll there is a poster who's excellent with employment related things. I am sure they'll turn up shortly


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## Firky (Jan 7, 2013)

Ha speak of the devil and she will arrive @cesare


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## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

firky said:


> I was signed off by my employer but after X amount of time I went in and had a word with my manager. Explained the situation and I got my P45 a week later


Your employer stitched you up!


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## Firky (Jan 7, 2013)

cesare said:


> Your employer stitched you up!


 
Aye, I have no doubt you are right but TBH at the time (and now) I didn't care, I wasn't even bothered about getting the money. Was in a dark place, which makes all this 'shit' even harder. Apathy turned up to number 11.

They did keep paying me SSP for 28 weeks and paid me holidays and bonuses, though. I got quite a big lump sum in one calendar month that I tucked away into a savings account, used that money to carpet my house and buy a cooker.


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I really have a feeling the HB claim could fall at the hurdle of iffy land lord


 
You can claim HB without informing your landlord. There's a specific bit you have to sign on the form to allow them to contact your landlord directly, just don't sign it. It might take longer and you might have to find more documentation and stuff yourself but if the alternative is your landlord kicking you out then it could be for the best.


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## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

firky said:


> Aye, I have no doubt you are right but TBH at the time (and now) I didn't care, I wasn't even bothered about getting the money. Was in a dark place, which makes all this 'shit' even harder. Apathy turned up to number 11.
> 
> They did keep paying me SSP for 28 weeks and paid me holidays and bonuses, though. I got quite a big lump sum in one calendar month that I tucked away into a savings account, used that money to carpet my house and buy a cooker.


Well, whatever's right for the individual at the time I guess.

But generally it's best to hang onto your employment if at all possible, so the onus is then on the employer to support return to work. And holiday pay etc.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 7, 2013)

re turn2us - while you have to enter numbers for earnings (etc) and put your age (some benefits are different if you're under 25, or over 60 or some such) it's anonymous - you don't give your name or anything like that, and it's independent of government / councils.  They have no way of knowing whether the circumstances you put in are true, as it's also a useful tool for working out how you'd end up financially if (for example) you took a part time job.

re leaving the job - I know that for JSA you get sanctioned if you have voluntarily left the job rather than been made redundant.  I have heard it suggested that it's better for illness / disability benefits if you get dismissed on health grounds rather than resign.  I'd suggest specialist advice before you do.

The ESA system and ATOS assessments (do you have them in NI?) are not that great at dealing with mental health type stuff.  (I'm currently assisting a friend who has bi-polar with ESA - some useful links on the ATOS crap thread, I'll try and find something in a minute or two and come back and edit.)  Are you in touch with any of the mental health charities / support organisations?  They will know the situation.

Housing / council tax benefits (and presumably the equivalent for rates in NI) are not "all or nothing" - but they are means tested according to household income (i.e. you and partner - whether married / civil partnered or not).  If your income is a bit above the income support threshold,you can still get some HB even if it's not the full rent.

Bearing in mind it's about 20 years since I worked in a HB department, and the rules might be subtly different in NI, we were fairly accommodating when it came to people whose hours and therefore wages varied, we'd do an average over X number of weeks.  (although bear in mind you're then under an obligation to tell them if your wages increase significantly)  We would do this for self employed people in some cases on self-declaration (one of our regulars worked as a busker in Covent Garden)

I've not seen that sort of landlord declaration before (the rules may be slightly different in NI) - I'd have thought you're not the first person to be reluctant to let their landlord know they are claiming HB, so it might be worth a phone call to the HE office asking for advice.  They will certainly want something (e.g. tenancy agreement) in writing though.

If Hubby is only working odd days, then I'd have thought he could claim JSA, either contributions based or income based (depending on national insurance contributions) but he will have to jump through the "available for and actively seeking work" hoops, and get prodded with sticks to take any old crap job.  If he does odd days' work, he'll lose JSA for those days.  The bureacuracy involved in declaring the odd day's work, and re-starting claims used to be balls-aching, though - I don't know if it's got any better.

If he gets income related JSA, then that would take the household into account (i.e. he wouldn't get anything if you were working and earning more than X amount), if he gets contributions based, you may need to claim ESA separately.

Best of luck.


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## Firky (Jan 7, 2013)

Then I find out that my gas oven is shit, FU Urban


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## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2013)

Can you get HB backdated? Anyone know? I should think kitty and badger have been entitled to it for a while now


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## wtfftw (Jan 7, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Can you get HB backdated? Anyone know? I should think kitty and badger have been entitled to it for a while now


With difficulty. You have to show a good reason like being in hospital. It's always worth trying tho! I'm not sure how much discretion they have. 

Get the claim in asap as you will probably only be paid from then. And I mean get the form in and drop in evidence afterwards if that delays you at all.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 7, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Can you get HB backdated? Anyone know? I should think kitty and badger have been entitled to it for a while now


 
in theory, yes (although you have specifically to ask for it and give a damn good reason)

in practice, the 'good reason' bit has to be pretty good.

Something like "I have been in hospital and unable to move, let alone communicate with anyone for the last month" would probably be OK. "I didn't know I could claim" almost certainly wouldn't be.

The possible line to take here would be not being able to deal with it due to illness, but with having a partner, this may fall flat. It's not going to cost anything to ask, but I wouldn't get too hopeful.

(again, disclaimer that the rules may be subtly different in NI)

Further to previous, this (ESA Help - not sure who they are though) has quite a lot, including a section on mental health issues. In claiming ESA, it's probably best to describe a 'bad day' rather than a 'good day' - some people make the mistake of saying "I can just about manage to do X some days" which is taken as "this person is capable of doing X"

ETA



wtfftw said:


> Get the claim in asap as you will probably only be paid from then. And I mean get the form in and drop in evidence afterwards if that delays you at all.


 
^ this


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## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

@kittyP Paulie might help you with the ESA form if you ask him.


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## Paulbray67 (Jan 7, 2013)

Badgers said:


>


 As you are currently signed off sick from work and not in receipt of benefits you would not be classed as "intentionally unemployed." You could ask the employer to do a capability to work assessment and if you are deemed not fit for their employment then you can be released on medical grounds and again this would help your claim for benefits.....


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## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

Paulbray67 said:


> As you are currently signed off sick from work and not in receipt of benefits you would not be classed as "intentionally unemployed." You could ask the employer to do a capability to work assessment and if you are deemed not fit for their employment then you can be released on medical grounds and again this would help your claim for benefits.....


There's no need to leave employment to be transferred from SSP to ESA.


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## Paulbray67 (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> They are very iffy about giving people an actual, on paper diagnosis unfortunately


 Regardless if you are being seen by the community mental health team they will have done an assessment and are "treating" you based on the outcome of this assessment therefore they will have to put something down on your clinical notes. If you need to badger them into making a decision...


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## Paulbray67 (Jan 7, 2013)

(Following taken from Citizens Advice Website) When SSP runs out or you stop being employed, you may be able to claim another benefit called Employment and Support Allowance (ESA). There are two sorts of ESA. Contributory ESA depends on your national insurance contributions. Income-related ESA will be paid if your income and savings are low enough. You may be able to get both depending on your circumstances.
During the first 13 weeks of ESA, you will have to have a number of tests to find out whether you can work.
The amount of ESA you get depends on your circumstances – for example, your age, your family circumstances, whether you have paid national insurance contributions and whether you are in the first 13 weeks of a claim.
In some circumstances, you can only get contributory ESA for up to 365 days.
If you get income-related ESA, you may also qualify for other income-related benefits, such as Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit and help with health costs.


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## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

Kitty, on the employment side, the important thing to remember is that SSP is a state benefit too - it's just administered by employers. So when the employer administered SSP runs out, you get transferred to the state administered equivalent which is ESA.

Edit: another link, and also one that takes you through all the different benefits on the other pages: https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> re turn2us - while you have to enter numbers for earnings (etc) and put your age (some benefits are different if you're under 25, or over 60 or some such) it's anonymous - you don't give your name or anything like that, and it's independent of government / councils. They have no way of knowing whether the circumstances you put in are true, as it's also a useful tool for working out how you'd end up financially if (for example) you took a part time job.
> 
> re leaving the job - I know that for JSA you get sanctioned if you have voluntarily left the job rather than been made redundant. I have heard it suggested that it's better for illness / disability benefits if you get dismissed on health grounds rather than resign. I'd suggest specialist advice before you do.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for all that PT. 

We are not in Northern Ireland though if that's what NI means in this case?


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

cesare said:


> There's no need to leave employment to be transferred from SSP to ESA.


 
Ahhh I didn't know this. Thank you Cesare.


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## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Ahhh I didn't know this. Thank you Cesare.


No problem. There's more detail in my #24


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Paulbray67 said:


> As you are currently signed off sick from work and not in receipt of benefits you would not be classed as "intentionally unemployed." You could ask the employer to do a capability to work assessment and if you are deemed not fit for their employment then you can be released on medical grounds and again this would help your claim for benefits.....


 
They have moved their Occupational Health company to Holborn and the last 2 assessments they have booked me in for I have not been able to get to due to my state a the time and lack of money to get a cab (could not face public transport up to the centre of London for love nor money at the moment). 
Why Holborn ffs. The work place is in bloody SE London heading towards Kent!!


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## peterkro (Jan 7, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Can you get HB backdated? Anyone know? I should think kitty and badger have been entitled to it for a while now


It was some time ago but I got incapacity benefit back dated for a year.A benefits advisor at Stockwell Group Practice did all the form filling etc for me and resulted in a large payment.I had not even imagined such a thing was possible. Whether the same applies to HB I have no idea.


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Paulbray67 said:


> (Following taken from Citizens Advice Website) When SSP runs out or you stop being employed, you may be able to claim another benefit called Employment and Support Allowance (ESA). There are two sorts of ESA. Contributory ESA depends on your national insurance contributions. Income-related ESA will be paid if your income and savings are low enough. You may be able to get both depending on your circumstances.
> During the first 13 weeks of ESA, you will have to have a number of tests to find out whether you can work.
> The amount of ESA you get depends on your circumstances – for example, your age, your family circumstances, whether you have paid national insurance contributions and whether you are in the first 13 weeks of a claim.
> In some circumstances, you can only get contributory ESA for up to 365 days.
> If you get income-related ESA, you may also qualify for other income-related benefits, such as Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit and help with health costs.


 


cesare said:


> Kitty, on the employment side, the important thing to remember is that SSP is a state benefit too - it's just administered by employers. So when the employer administered SSP runs out, you get transferred to the state administered equivalent which is ESA.
> 
> Edit: another link, and also one that takes you through all the different benefits on the other pages: https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance


 
Thank you. I'll look in to that now .


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

TBH I am more concerned with getting the next lot of rent paid than worrying about back payment.


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## Paulbray67 (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> They have moved their Occupational Health company to Holborn and the last 2 assessments they have booked me in for I have not been able to get to due to my state a the time and lack of money to get a cab (could not face public transport up to the centre of London for love nor money at the moment).
> Why Holborn ffs. The work place is in bloody SE London heading towards Kent!!


 
You can explain your situation to them and they should arrange for HR to attend your home address to do the assessment. At the end of the day it's in their interest to get it sorted


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Thanks for all that PT.
> 
> We are not in Northern Ireland though if that's what NI means in this case?


 
Yes, that's what I meant - the housing benefits form you posted a link to is from the N Ireland Housing Executive, so I assumed that's where you were...

While the system is similar, it's not necessarily exactly the same, and a council in England wouldn't know what to do with that form.

You claim housing / council tax benefit via your local council (the one you pay council tax to, not the county or town / parish council if you have such things where you are) - go to their website and try again.  They may have their form as a download, you may have to call in to a council office to get one, you may be able to request one by post on the phone - although as has been said, the sooner they get the form, the sooner your claim will start.

Even if you can't supply a tenancy agreement / proof of income straight away, get the basic form in.


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## Paulbray67 (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> TBH I am more concerned with getting the next lot of rent paid than worrying about back payment.


 can I suggest discussing it with the landlord and explain to him that at least he's guaranteed to get the payment and it not be late once the benefit is sorted out. As Housing Benefit payments are due to change, i think in April, you really need to get it sorted out as quick as possible.


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## Greebo (Jan 7, 2013)

In theory you should have a mental health keyworker (this can be a CPN) who's supposed to help you with paperwork and other bits of bureaucracy, but in practice that doesn't always happen.

One of the local places which can provided specialist help with the ESA claim is DASL www.disabilitylambeth.org.uk  Some of the staff there are disabled, so they tend to be a bit more aware of which questions they need to ask in order to get an accurate picture of what you can and can't do.

The reason you should get help with that claim (and having another stab at DLA) is because when you live with a condition or illness for more than a few months you stop noticing quite how much it impacts on what you'd expect to be able to do when well/not disabled.  eg VP sometimes forgets to put hearing loss on the forms because for him it's not the thing which limits him most.

Good luck to you and Badgers, keep copies of everything, send everything "signed for", and AFAIK the most you can backdate claims now is one month.  @ViolentPanda for ESA information.


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## peterkro (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> TBH I am more concerned with getting the next lot of rent paid than worrying about back payment.


OK I understand that.I was in a very similar situation as you regards community mental health and what not,I think it's important to get them or a benefits advisor to do the claim for you by doing it on your behalf it'll carry more weight, they tend not to fuck about with applications because they know these people know the system at least as well as them.


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## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> TBH I am more concerned with getting the next lot of rent paid than worrying about back payment.


Your employer really should have given you that SSP1 form *ages* ago, so that you could transfer to ESA. I know your priority is getting the rent paid first, and the situation is stressful so I'll zip it for now on the employment side but can always pick it up again later when it suits you, yeah?


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 7, 2013)

re landlord issues

I've had a look at *Lambeth's HB form (downloadable here - although you can fill an online version in) and it says (page 17) you only need to get the landlord to put something on paper if you can't provide a tenancy agreement or rent book or something.

do you have anything on paper?

* - chosen as home of U75 so if you live somewhere else, again refer to local council.


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

cesare said:


> Your employer really should have given you that SSP1 form *ages* ago, so that you could transfer to ESA. I know your priority is getting the rent paid first, and the situation is stressful so I'll zip it for now on the employment side but can always pick it up again later when it suits you, yeah?


 
No no it's ok. It's good to know. The ESA is the one this that am 100%sure that I am entitled to. 
I will email my employer and ask for at SSP1 form.


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## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> re landlord issues
> 
> I've had a look at *Lambeth's HB form (downloadable here - although you can fill an online version in) and it says (page 17) you only need to get the landlord to put something on paper if you can't provide a tenancy agreement or rent book or something.
> 
> ...


 
Yes we have a signed tenancy agreement but it is only in Badgers name so he will have to fill it in. 
Thank you


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Thank you ever so much everyone for your support x


----------



## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> No no it's ok. It's good to know. The ESA is the one this that am 100%sure that I am entitled to.
> I will email my employer and ask for at SSP1 form.


While you're at it, ask them how much holiday you have left and when you have to take it by. Holiday pay is usually at your normal rate of pay not SSP or zero. Some paid holiday leave might help with the immediate rent issue.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Yes we have a signed tenancy agreement but it is only in Badgers name so he will have to fill it in.
> Thank you


 


In that case, you probably won't need to bother the landlord (although you may still need to show that your rent is paid up to date - do you have a rent book / receipts?  When I did it, we'd also accept bank statements that showed regular rent payments out, but each council may have its own ideas)

You (or he) will need to declare a 'change of circumstances' when you start getting ESA of course.  In general, it's better to advise the council of any change of circumstances rather than wait for them to find out. 

Especially where DWP benefits are concerned.  In theory, DWP do talk to local councils, but the council where I worked, the (then) DSS computer didn't seem able to cope with postcodes not matching borough boundaries, so we got everything for XX1 postcode, although a small chunk of that was in a different borough, and while a small chunk of XX2 was on our patch, we never got anything...


----------



## Greebo (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Thank you ever so much everyone for your support x


No problem.  

BTW you might find it helpful to check the ATOS medical thread.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

cesare said:


> While you're at it, ask them how much holiday you have left and when you have to take it by. Holiday pay is usually at your normal rate of pay not SSP or zero. Some paid holiday leave might help with the immediate rent issue.


 
I work in a school so holiday is all set in to the school holidays. It averages out.


----------



## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I work in a school so holiday is all set in to the school holidays. It averages out.


Have they been paying you holiday pay at your normal rate (ie not SSP or zero) during the school holidays though?


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> In that case, you probably won't need to bother the landlord (although you may still need to show that your rent is paid up to date - do you have a rent book / receipts? When I did it, we'd also accept bank statements that showed regular rent payments out, but each council may have its own ideas)
> 
> You (or he) will need to declare a 'change of circumstances' when you start getting ESA of course. In general, it's better to advise the council of any change of circumstances rather than wait for them to find out.
> 
> Especially where DWP benefits are concerned. In theory, DWP do talk to local councils, but the council where I worked, the (then) DSS computer didn't seem able to cope with postcodes not matching borough boundaries, so we got everything for XX1 postcode, although a small chunk of that was in a different borough, and while a small chunk of XX2 was on our patch, we never got anything...


 
We can provide bank statements to show rent payment. 

I will declare any changes as I suffer with severe anxiety and the fear of being fraudulent would kill me


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

cesare said:


> Have they been paying you holiday pay at your normal rate (ie not SSP or zero) during the school holidays though?


 
It is all averaged out annually. You get paid for certain amount of the school holidays but not the rest. 
It is all averaged out so you get a monthly payment all year regardless of whether there has been a school holiday or not. 
Does that make sense. 
Your holiday pay is included in your yearly salary as you cannot take holiday at any other time than set school ones.


----------



## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> It is all averaged out annually. You get paid for certain amount of the school holidays but not the rest.
> It is all averaged out so you get a monthly payment all year regardless of whether there has been a school holiday or not.
> Does that make sense.
> Your holiday pay is included in your yearly salary as you cannot take holiday at any other time than set school ones.


That sounds like "rolled up holiday pay" which should be shown separately on your payslip. So you should still be getting the holiday pay element in addition to SSP/zero or at least there should be some provision for what happens during long term sick.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

cesare said:


> That sounds like "rolled up holiday pay" which should be shown separately on your payslip. So you should still be getting the holiday pay element in addition to SSP/zero or at least there should be some provision for what happens during long term sick.


 
I have no idea then. 

I have just had a huge pop via email at the payroll liaison as they have just informed me that I owe double what they initially told me and they wanted half back by cheque now  
I tried not to be directly rude to her but I pretty much told them they could sing for it as I am bereft of money and mental energy. 
I am so fucking angry with them! None of this is my fault. The old council payroll fucked it up and now it's been transferred to a private company (school became an academy) they have fucked up too. 
I know I will have to pay it back eventually but I have no ability to deal with this right now. 
Fucking cunts!!!

Sorry


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I have no idea then.
> 
> I have just had a huge pop via email at the payroll liaison as they have just informed me that I owe double what they initially told me and they wanted half back by cheque now
> I tried not to be directly rude to her but I pretty much told them they could sing for it as I am bereft of money and mental energy.
> ...


 
and the fact they didn't tell you you should claim benefits when your SSP ran out didn't exactly help matters.

I second the 'cunts' bit, and propose action along the lines of telling them to fuck off*

* - this bit doesn't constitute 'legal advice'


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2013)

Why should you pay it back? I'd keep it if I were you. Surely it's too late for them to be grasping about for it when it's their own shitty admin that led to the mistake. Have you had advice about that?


----------



## Jackobi (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I know I will have to pay it back eventually but I have no ability to deal with this right now.


 
Do you have a Mind in your area?

http://www.mind.org.uk/help/mind_in_your_area

One of their support workers will be able to assist you with any current and backdated benefit claims. One of my friends was recently on SSP, which expired, and is now claiming ESA. He was able to secure a six month backdated housing benefit claim (with help from Mind) after having some mental health problems recently.


----------



## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I have no idea then.
> 
> I have just had a huge pop via email at the payroll liaison as they have just informed me that I owe double what they initially told me and they wanted half back by cheque now
> I tried not to be directly rude to her but I pretty much told them they could sing for it as I am bereft of money and mental energy.
> ...


Just tell them that you've spent the money in good faith, it was their mistake and not yours, they've compounded matters, and that they're adding to your stress.  Also tell them that they've unlawfully  fucked up the SSP1 which has meant you haven't been able to transfer to ESA. Also tell them that you should have been getting the rolled up holiday pay all along (if you haven't been). And then tell them that they should be getting all this sorted out pronto as a reasonable adjustment for your mental health disability.

http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/resources/...mpsons_solicitors/pay/salary_overpayments.cfm (re the overpayment)


----------



## Onket (Jan 7, 2013)

Kitty, your UNISON rep should be able to help with the paying back aspect (edit to add- _if it comes to it following cesare's advice above_). We have had several cases of 'overpayment' here and the bottom line is that HR/Payroll have to be reasonable in what they demand from you in terms of repayment (obviously they are going to initially demand it all asap, or whatever, though). If you have no income then it would be perfectly reasonable for you to tell them you cannot repay anything until you return to work, and then on an instalment basis at an affordable rate, taking your partner's current low income into consideration.

Sorry to hear you're still not feeling too good. Let me know if there's anything I can do.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 7, 2013)

cesare said:


> That sounds like "rolled up holiday pay" which should be shown separately on your payslip. So you should still be getting the holiday pay element in addition to SSP/zero or at least there should be some provision for what happens during long term sick.


 
my Mrs is a teacher and she doesn't have any rolled up holiday pay on her payslip.

Just her basic pay + SEN + TLR add ons (teachery stuff) less her deductions for Tax, NI and Pension.

Teachers don't really accrue holiday as they have to take it when they have to take it.

she works in a totally different geographical area to Kitty and is still a county council employee, not an academy, so i don't think this is unusual.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Why should you pay it back? I'd keep it if I were you. Surely it's too late for them to be grasping about for it when it's their own shitty admin that led to the mistake. Have you had advice about that?


 
Due to it being paid in bits with my normal sick pay I had no idea that they were over paying me so it's well long been spent. 
I have not had advice. I know I should speak to CAB but this is all so overwhelming at the moment. 
With MH problems is almost as difficult being off work as it is being in work. I am really struggling to take any more pressure, assessment, people looking at me and talking at me. 
I've fucking had enough but it is only going to get worse with making claims etc 

God that is so pessimistic and I am sorry but that is how it is right now.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Jackobi said:


> Do you have a Mind in your area?
> 
> http://www.mind.org.uk/help/mind_in_your_area
> 
> One of their support workers will be able to assist you with any current and backdated benefit claims. One of my friends was recently on SSP, which expired, and is now claiming ESA. He was able to secure a six month backdated housing benefit claim (with help from Mind) after having some mental health problems recently.


 
I will have a look thank you


----------



## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

DanU said:


> my Mrs is a teacher and she doesn't have any rolled up holiday pay on her payslip.
> 
> Just her basic pay + SEN + TLR add ons (teachery stuff) less her deductions for Tax, NI and Pension.
> 
> Teachers don't really accrue holiday as they have to take it when they have to take it.


Teachers' pay is subject to the same legislation re holiday pay and entitlement. There's no exemption for education. It might be common practice for it to be administered in a way that's subject to challenge of course. What would happen if your missus was off for a year on long term sick?


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Onket said:


> Kitty, your UNISON rep should be able to help with the paying back aspect (edit to add- _if it comes to it following cesare's advice above_). We have had several cases of 'overpayment' here and the bottom line is that HR/Payroll have to be reasonable in what they demand from you in terms of repayment (obviously they are going to initially demand it all asap, or whatever, though). If you have no income then it would be perfectly reasonable for you to tell them you cannot repay anything until you return to work, and then on an instalment basis at an affordable rate, taking your partner's current low income into consideration.
> 
> Sorry to hear you're still not feeling too good. Let me know if there's anything I can do.


 
Thanks Onky. Unfortunately we don't have an in house rep at the moment. And also the school is so faraway from where I live it's tricky to talk to any one. 
I do, well did when I was getting money, still pay Unison every month. If there is no rep at the school, what would be my next bet? 
PM if you needs details that are personal. 
Or you don't have to at all, sorry, you have already been very helpful.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I do, well did when I was getting money, still pay Unison every month. If there is no rep at the school, what would be my next bet?


 
hmm - wonder if they may consider your membership lapsed. (would be worth arguing if they say it is)

Presumably you're within a branch, even if there isn't a local rep - can you ring branch office?


----------



## Onket (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Thanks Onky. Unfortunately we don't have an in house rep at the moment. And also the school is so faraway from where I live it's tricky to talk to any one.
> I do, well did when I was getting money, still pay Unison every month. If there is no rep at the school, what would be my next bet?
> PM if you needs details that are personal.
> Or you don't have to at all, sorry, you have already been very helpful.


 
You can call UNISON on 0845 355 0845 or fill in the contact form here- https://www.unison.org.uk/help/general.asp and they should contact your branch and have a local rep/steward contact you. It works for our branch, so it should do for yours too.

It would also probably help you if you had a general chat about your situation with someone there too.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 7, 2013)

cesare said:


> Teachers' pay is subject to the same legislation re holiday pay and entitlement. There's no exemption for education. It might be common practice for it to be administered in a way that's subject to challenge of course. What would happen if your missus was off for a year on long term sick?


 
no idea. probably exactly what is happening to Kittyp tbh.

it is an interesting point, the holiday situation.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

DanU said:


> no idea. probably exactly what is happening to Kittyp tbh.
> 
> it is an interesting point, the holiday situation.


 
I'd never really considered it tbh


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Onket said:


> You can call UNISON on 0845 355 0845 or fill in the contact form here- https://www.unison.org.uk/help/general.asp and they should contact your branch and have a local rep/steward contact you. It works for our branch, so it should do for yours too.
> 
> It would also probably help you if you had a general chat about your situation with someone there too.


 
Thank you 

Will they consider my membership lapsed as I have not been getting paid for the last 2 months so my contribution has not been taken from my pay?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2013)

Paulbray67 said:


> Hi Kitty, may I suggest that if you have been diagnosed with a mental health condition and the fact that you are being seen by community mental health team, I would advise you to leave work...


 
If she leaves employment of her own free will, she will have a much harder job establishing entitlement. What she should be doing is claiming SSP until her employer gives her the boot (basically "medical retirement" after 12 months' absence as Kitty is, IIRC, Civil Service or local authority), and then transit to ESA.
She can however claim DLA, HB and CTB instantly.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I have been signed off of work since last February but I am still technically employed iyswim?
> Makes it extra fucking complicated


 
Until you've been off for a year, at which time they'll feel legally-free to apply the (metaphorical) nipple clamps.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I
> She can however claim_* DLA*_, HB and CTB instantly.


 
DLA instantly? Really? 

I have an appointment with a MH Nurse on Wednesday, I will see if he can offer any advice or suggest someone to help me.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Until you've been off for a year, at which time they'll feel legally-free to apply the (metaphorical) nipple clamps.


 
?  In what way?


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Jackobi said:


> Do you have a Mind in your area?
> 
> http://www.mind.org.uk/help/mind_in_your_area
> 
> One of their support workers will be able to assist you with any current and backdated benefit claims. One of my friends was recently on SSP, which expired, and is now claiming ESA. He was able to secure a six month backdated housing benefit claim (with help from Mind) after having some mental health problems recently.


 
I think Lambeth Mind is just around the corner from me


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> They are very iffy about giving people an actual, on paper diagnosis unfortunately


 
Mine were, when I was treated by the South Lambeth Community Mental Health team. In the end though, I explained that not having a diagnosis on paper was adding to my anxiety, because of the stress it was causing w/r/t my employers and their ability to make a decision as to my employment status, after which the psychiatrist there wrote out a page of info detailing diagnosis, ongoing treatment and prognosis.
I know from experience that you feel kind of unable to push them in that situation, not only because they're treating you, but because you feel beholden to them, but a diagnosis is a right, especially if having one will at least pinch one source of anxiety off.


----------



## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

DanU said:


> no idea. probably exactly what is happening to Kittyp tbh.
> 
> it is an interesting point, the holiday situation.


Definitely looking at the terms and conditions to see what happens in the event of LTS. If the pay contains a "rolled up" element of holiday pay it should be shown separately. It's probably rife in the education sector.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> ?  In what way?


 
Their statutory obligation to take you back into the workforce is (at least it was last time I checked) only applicable for a year (during which they have to "make efforts" to reintegrate you). After that they can let you go "without prejudice" unless other factors pertain (like if they *haven't* "made efforts" (which can mean anything from visits from Occupational Health to keeping in contact with you about your health status).


----------



## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> If she leaves employment of her own free will, she will have a much harder job establishing entitlement. What she should be doing is claiming SSP until her employer gives her the boot (basically "medical retirement" after 12 months' absence as Kitty is, IIRC, Civil Service or local authority), and then transit to ESA.
> She can however claim DLA, HB and CTB instantly.


She should get SSP for 28 weeks and then be transferred to ESA (whilst still employed). Whether or not her employer eventually dismisses her on medical grounds will be an issue after the transition to ESA happens.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2013)

cesare said:


> She should get SSP for 28 weeks and then be transferred to ESA (whilst still employed). Whether or not her employer eventually dismisses her on medical grounds will be an issue after the transition to ESA happens.


 
I stand corrected. Seems like ESA follows the old IB thing of putting you one a "short-term" benefit and then (possibly) demanding the full rigmarole when *that* comes to an end.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> They have moved their Occupational Health company to Holborn and the last 2 assessments they have booked me in for I have not been able to get to due to my state a the time and lack of money to get a cab (could not face public transport up to the centre of London for love nor money at the moment).
> Why Holborn ffs. The work place is in bloody SE London heading towards Kent!!


 
That's a bit off. I requested (and got) home visits from OH when they were doing their biz on me.


----------



## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I stand corrected. Seems like ESA follows the old IB thing of putting you one a "short-term" benefit and then (possibly) demanding the full rigmarole when *that* comes to an end.



Looks like it. SSP for 28 weeks, then transition to lower rate ESA for 13 weeks (whilst still employed). Then there's the split to either Work-Related Activity Group, or Support Group from 14 weeks onwards. It's at that point when the ATOS assessments kick in, I believe.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2013)

Kitty, I can email you or Badgers the Benefits & Work guide for making the best possible DLA claim if you PM me an email address. Even if you don't fill in the form yourself, it's a worthwhile read to prepare yourself for the kind of convoluted and depressing questions that you'll be asked.
And be prepared for that. Acknowledging your disabilities/impairments on paper hits most people hard. It's all very well knowing in your head that you're suffering X, Y or Z, but actually having it down on paper in front of you can be quite shocking - it makes it more "real", IYSWIM.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> Mine were, when I was treated by the South Lambeth Community Mental Health team. In the end though, I explained that not having a diagnosis on paper was adding to my anxiety, because of the stress it was causing w/r/t my employers and their ability to make a decision as to my employment status, after which the psychiatrist there wrote out a page of info detailing diagnosis, ongoing treatment and prognosis.
> I know from experience that you feel kind of unable to push them in that situation, not only because they're treating you, but because you feel beholden to them, but a diagnosis is a right, especially if having one will at least pinch one source of anxiety off.



That makes sense. 
The psych I was seeing cancelled my last appointment and I have not heard hide nor hair from her since November 
I'll ask the mh nurse about getting to see someone again.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> Kitty, I can email you or Badgers the Benefits & Work guide for making the best possible DLA claim if you PM me an email address. Even if you don't fill in the form yourself, it's a worthwhile read to prepare yourself for the kind of convoluted and depressing questions that you'll be asked.
> And be prepared for that. Acknowledging your disabilities/impairments on paper hits most people hard. It's all very well knowing in your head that you're suffering X, Y or Z, but actually having it down on paper in front of you can be quite shocking - it makes it more "real", IYSWIM.



I do know what you mean. And I've been closer to the edge than I've ever been recently. I am scared what all this rigmoral will do to me tbh 

I'll pm email address. Thanks


----------



## Onket (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Thank you
> 
> Will they consider my membership lapsed as I have not been getting paid for the last 2 months so my contribution has not been taken from my pay?


 
Sadly, if you've not got a workplace rep who knows you are off sick, then you might just be a name of a person who has stopped paying, displayed on a speadsheet.

You should contact them so they know the reason you are no longer paying and that you need advice, etc.


----------



## Jackobi (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I think Lambeth Mind is just around the corner from me


 
You should contact them as soon as possible.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Jackobi said:
			
		

> You should contact them as soon as possible.



I have emailed them.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Onket said:
			
		

> Sadly, if you've not got a workplace rep who knows you are off sick, then you might just be a name of a person who has stopped paying, displayed on a speadsheet.
> 
> You should contact them so they know the reason you are no longer paying and that you need advice, etc.



Ok. If there maybe issues then I'll leave unison for now. 
There are so many people to email contact etc and I'm only just hanging on tbh.


----------



## Onket (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Ok. If there maybe issues then I'll leave unison for now.
> There are so many people to email contact etc and I'm only just hanging on tbh.


 
I appreciate it's a difficult time but even putting a small bit of info in that online contact form could mean the difference between them lapsing your membership or not. :/


----------



## cesare (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Ok. If there maybe issues then I'll leave unison for now.
> There are so many people to email contact etc and I'm only just hanging on tbh.


If you'd like a hand with any of the emails etc, just give me a shout?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I do know what you mean. And I've been closer to the edge than I've ever been recently. I am scared what all this rigmoral will do to me tbh


 
We found that the best way to deal with it (DLA and Incapacity Benefit/ESA, but not HB and CTB, where entitlement is clearer) was to be bloody-minded. We paid money in when I was healthy, why the fuck shouldn't we claim what we were entitled to when sick?  Being angry and stubborn - much more fun than worrying, and much more satisfying too!


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Onket said:
			
		

> I appreciate it's a difficult time but even putting a small bit of info in that online contact form could mean the difference between them lapsing your membership or not. :/



Oh ok I see what you mean now.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> We found that the best way to deal with it (DLA and Incapacity Benefit/ESA, but not HB and CTB, where entitlement is clearer) was to be bloody-minded. We paid money in when I was healthy, why the fuck shouldn't we claim what we were entitled to when sick?  Being angry and stubborn - much more fun than worrying, and much more satisfying too!



I'll get my  face on as much as possible. 

I was going to ask if any one has openly displayed there displeasure and disgust with the whole situation in an assessment?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I'll get my  face on as much as possible.
> 
> I was going to ask if any one has openly displayed there displeasure and disgust with the whole situation in an assessment?


 
IB and DLA assessments I'm polite but no-nonsense. TBF, being too open about how disgusted you are just gives the assessor a reason for terminating the assessment, so it's best to not stray too far into hostility.

Also, as no-one has said it yet, if you have an ESA assessment date set, make sure they know you *REQUIRE* a home visit, that you'll have someone with you for moral support and to aid your memory, and phone up *and* write to them requesting that it be recorded (the fact that it's being recorded can make some assessors do their job properly).
Similarly, for a DLA assessment (done by a doctor, not a "medical professional" for the time being), again request a home visit, have someone with you (makes it harder for the doctor to be overbearing) and if at all possible overtly or covertly record the visit.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> IB and DLA assessments I'm polite but no-nonsense. TBF, being too open about how disgusted you are just gives the assessor a reason for terminating the assessment, so it's best to not stray too far into hostility.
> 
> Also, as no-one has said it yet, if you have an ESA assessment date set, make sure they know you REQUIRE a home visit, that you'll have someone with you for moral support and to aid your memory, and phone up and write to them requesting that it be recorded (the fact that it's being recorded can make some assessors do their job properly).
> Similarly, for a DLA assessment (done by a doctor, not a "medical professional" for the time being), again request a home visit, have someone with you (makes it harder for the doctor to be overbearing) and if at all possible overtly or covertly record the visit.



Thanks. 
A home visit crumbs. 
I guess it's best as knowing the way I am, it would get to the day and I'd have a panic attack and not be able to get to the appointment. 

Is it easy enough to get a home visit?


----------



## Greebo (Jan 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Thanks.
> A home visit crumbs.
> I guess it's best as knowing the way I am, it would get to the day and I'd have a panic attack and not be able to get to the appointment.
> 
> Is it easy enough to get a home visit?


It is if you can spell out (or somebody speaking on your behalf can) that your condition means that there's no way on earth that you'd be able to guarantee attending the appointment unless it's a home visit.  BTW don't worry, IME nobody cares about the standard of housework etc.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

Greebo said:
			
		

> It is if you can spell out (or somebody speaking on your behalf can) that your condition means that there's no way on earth that you'd be able to guarantee attending the appointment unless it's a home visit.  BTW don't worry, IME nobody cares about the standard of housework etc.



Oh goodness I'm getting quite scared now. I'm not sure I can do this.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jan 7, 2013)

You can, Kitty. You won't KNOW that till it's done, I know, but you _can. _


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

sheothebudworths said:


> You can, Kitty. You won't KNOW that till it's done, I know, but you _can. _


 
Cheers


----------



## Voley (Jan 7, 2013)

sheothebudworths said:


> You can, Kitty. You won't KNOW that till it's done, I know, but you _can. _


This is right.  I've no advice kitty but a big virtual hug from me anyhow. Tell badgers he can have a manful handshake, a nod of the head and possibly a slap on the back too.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 7, 2013)

NVP said:


> This is right.  I've no advice kitty but a big virtual hug from me anyhow. Tell badgers he can have a manful handshake, a nod of the head and possibly a slap on the back too.


----------



## Jackobi (Jan 9, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I have emailed them.


 
Did they respond? I won't continue to recommend somewhere that didn't.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2013)

cesare said:


> Kitty, you should be able to claim ESA as soon as SSP runs out from your employer (normally 28 weeks). Your employer should have given you an SSP1(T) form that supports your benefits claim and transfer to ESA.
> 
> Don't leave work! Also check out the holiday entitlement with work because that doesn't get confiscated when you're sick.
> 
> ...


Yes, recent case law has established that those on long-term sick still accrue holiday at the normal rate, so your employers probably owe you some paid holiday @kittyP.

Perhaps if you spoke to your employer they could work out if what you owe them could be offset against the holiday they owe you, and you could come to some arrangement?


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 9, 2013)

I think sorting holiday pay would be a fairly tough thing, tho perhaps if the union connection works out, they could get on it.

While i dont dispute the legality of what cesare's saying, I've been on the payroll for several schools, academies and local authorities, and holiday pay has never been detailed on the payslip.  A challenge to that practice would have repercussions for the whole sector.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 9, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> I think sorting holiday pay would be a fairly tough thing, tho perhaps if the union connection works out, they could get on it.
> 
> While i dont dispute the legality of what cesare's saying, I've been on the payroll for several schools, academies and local authorities, and holiday pay has never been detailed on the payslip.  A challenge to that practice would have repercussions for the whole sector.



That's standard practice ime, not just in education. Payroll should be able to make manual adjustments no problem though (they need to be so they can correct all their fuckups.)


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

Jackobi said:


> Did they respond? I won't continue to recommend somewhere that didn't.


 
They have not as yet no


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

Got the online HB and CT form filled in today. Fucked it up twice, clicked the wrong thing and had to start virtually again but it's submitted now. 
Just waiting for them to post it now and then it can be signed and sent back. And of course there will be no more hiccoughs along the way   

Also heard back from payroll and after my huge big rant at them they have said not to worry about the overpayment for now and the will (re) send the SSP1 form. I say 're' as they claim they already sent one but I never received it


----------



## wtfftw (Jan 9, 2013)

Massive pat on the back from me. I know how hard dealing with all this shit is. :solidarityfistbump:


----------



## weepiper (Jan 9, 2013)

well done kitty


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 9, 2013)

how productive are you today?  well done, petal - i hope you're congratulating yourself. xx


----------



## Greebo (Jan 9, 2013)

Bloody well done Kitty - that's one hell of a lot to get through in a couple of days.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jan 9, 2013)




----------



## colacubes (Jan 9, 2013)

Good work babe


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks. I now feel like a jibbering mess and can't stop shaking.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 9, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Got the online HB and CT form filled in today.


 




kittyP said:


> Thanks. I now feel like a jibbering mess and can't stop shaking.


----------



## wiskey (Jan 9, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Thanks. I now feel like a jibbering mess and can't stop shaking.


gosh you've been really productive! well done 

I've had days where I tackled all our benefits stuff and it's challenging to say the least, not surprised you feel a bit wiped out.


----------



## geminisnake (Jan 9, 2013)

Yay you  x


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 9, 2013)

Well done mate. Hope your feeling a bit calmer now xx


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:
			
		

> Well done mate. Hope your feeling a bit calmer now xx



Quite the opposite but thanks for asking x x


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

It just seems the more I do to try and sort things out, the more people just expect that I am magically better and can cope. 
It feels like it's all going to go seriously wrong in my head. Even worse than before. 
And I missed my CMHT appointment as i got the wrong fucking day


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 9, 2013)

don't worry about what you think other people expect... That's added pressure that you don't need. 

re your appointment can you get a new one or arrange a home visit? Is there someone who can call for you if you don't feel able @kittyp


----------



## geminisnake (Jan 9, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Quite the opposite but thanks for asking x x


 
 I thought I was the only one that got that. Deep breathes hun (((kitty)))


----------



## ddraig (Jan 9, 2013)

catching up on this thread sorry

fair play for sorting all that today 
that would've done me and many others in on a good day!
hr and benefits systems and sometimes the people drawn to and employed in those roles tend to be a proper mindbending uncooperative fuckup ime. (Caveat- obviously the majority of these employees tend to be low paid, overworked and mismanaged/treated)

on top of cesare and onket's excellent union advice can i suggest that if you don't get a response to your online query soon and whenever you are up to it maybe email the region as they have full time reps who should stand in if you don't have a local or work based one.
they tend to be more experienced and organised and you are entitled to representation.
hope it doesn't come to that and sounds good from post on last page.
if it does, again ime, they could take a lot of the stress out of it.

good luck


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 9, 2013)

Also I meant to mention this earlier re the worry of irish landlord not being ok with HB.. Other ppl signed on when i lived there and there wasn't a problem so should be ok in your case too


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> Also I meant to mention this earlier re the worry of irish landlord not being ok with HB.. Other ppl signed on when i lived there and there wasn't a problem so should be ok in your case too


 
Yeah thanks, I found this out today. x


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> don't worry about what you think other people expect... That's added pressure that you don't need.
> 
> re your appointment can you get a new one or arrange a home visit? Is there someone who can call for you if you don't feel able @kittyp


 
I have to worry about it. These are people that I love but they are getting sick of my shit. 

Yes. I can probably call tomorrow or get someone to do it but I get the feeling other people are getting more than a bit sick of doing this stuff for me. 

I guess I do it or I break, properly this time. 

I can just feel something really fucking bad coming.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 9, 2013)

@kittyp if your feeling that bad then have you considered giving 322 a call in the morning they may be able to give you an emergency appointment or at least point you in the direction of someone who can (((kitty)))


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> @kittyp if your feeling that bad then have you considered giving 322 a call in the morning they may be able to give you an emergency appointment or at least point you in the direction of someone who can (((kitty)))


 
322? 

I have a crisis plan from my CBT therapist but that, oh I dunno, I am not about to call the Dr out or go to AnE.  
I'm not bad enough, yet. 
I keep trying so so hard but getting it all fucking wrong. 
I don't have the strength to do more than one positive thing at a time with out falling to pieces after and I can't let anyone see me fall, even a bit because they have seen enough!!


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 9, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I have to worry about it. These are people that I love but they are getting sick of my shit.
> 
> Yes. I can probably call tomorrow or get someone to do it but I get the feeling other people are getting more than a bit sick of doing this stuff for me.
> 
> ...


 
(((((kittyp)))))

times like this are one way of finding out who your real friends are.  I was quite surprised by the people who were left standing and who disappeared over the hills when I had a bout of depression related shit some years ago.


----------



## wiskey (Jan 9, 2013)

Having spent months in a hole with post natal depression I have a very small insight into how you feel (about other people and you), I too felt like they are were all bored with me, I was draining them and they didn't want to hear about it any more. . . I assure you this really really isn't the case! It would be unrealistic to say that people don't get frustrated, because they are human and they are dealing with a situation just like you are . . . but they love you, and they want to help you. And if they say that they think you are moving forwards it's not a benchmark of where you always have to be now, it's a compliment for doing something you find hard. And don't forget that they have their own stuff too, and if they need to step back for a while it's not a reflection on you, it's just how life is.

You don't sound like you feel you are in crisis (as in calling the crisis team), but don't let your anxiety get the better of you, just because you feel like it's all coming to a head again doesn't mean it is and doesn't mean you should force it to.

I hope that makes sense.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

.


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## Thimble Queen (Jan 9, 2013)

322 Brixton Rd are a near by CMHT.

Sounds like you are being quite tough on yourself, lovely. You've done really well today getting the forms sorted. You don't have to do everything at once. Sorting out practical stuff and getting better both take time. You've made a really positive step for today, try to remember that and be.kind to yourself... one step at a time. Hope that.helps xx


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:
			
		

> 322 Brixton Rd are a near by CMHT.
> 
> Sounds like you are being quite tough on yourself, lovely. You've done really well today getting the forms sorted. You don't have to do everything at once. Sorting out practical stuff and getting better both take time. You've made a really positive step for today, try to remember that and be.kind to yourself... one step at a time. Hope that.helps xx



Thank you.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

wiskey said:
			
		

> Having spent months in a hole with post natal depression I have a very small insight into how you feel (about other people and you), I too felt like they are were all bored with me, I was draining them and they didn't want to hear about it any more. . . I assure you this really really isn't the case! It would be unrealistic to say that people don't get frustrated, because they are human and they are dealing with a situation just like you are . . . but they love you, and they want to help you. And if they say that they think you are moving forwards it's not a benchmark of where you always have to be now, it's a compliment for doing something you find hard. And don't forget that they have their own stuff too, and if they need to step back for a while it's not a reflection on you, it's just how life is.
> 
> You don't sound like you feel you are in crisis (as in calling the crisis team), but don't let your anxiety get the better of you, just because you feel like it's all coming to a head again doesn't mean it is and doesn't mean you should force it to.
> 
> I hope that makes sense.



Thank you x


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2013)

Sorry some stuff deleted as just tmi


----------



## cesare (Jan 10, 2013)

You've done great kitty and don't underestimate just how fucking hard it is to not only navigate your way through the benefits system but also to tackle it and do it. The system is set up that way - to deter. Unfortunately it disproportionately deters people whose mental health is fragile. 

Tackling starting a benefits claim is an adrenaline charged situation. Fight or flight. So in a boxed in/cornered situation you use the adrenaline to make yourself fight and you achieve what you set out to do but needing that adrenaline rush to do it.  But in the aftermath when the adrenaline ebbs away the next bit kicks in which is like a shock reaction; shaky, trembly, totally drained, anxious, panicking, maybe physical reactions such as throwing up, and also worrying about how whether you've done it ok and what if you haven't, and an extra dose of the "what ifs" that makes just getting up in the morning so very hard sometimes.

You've already done so much just tackling it head on, when the system's set up to stop you doing it. Be kind to yourself lovely x


----------



## Greebo (Jan 10, 2013)

cesare said:


> You've done great kitty and don't underestimate just how fucking hard it is to not only navigate your way through the benefits system but also to tackle it and do it. The system is set up that way - to deter. Unfortunately it disproportionately deters people whose mental health is fragile.<snip>
> 
> You've already done so much just tackling it head on, when the system's set up to stop you doing it. Be kind to yourself lovely x


^This in spades.  The benefits maze is difficult enough when well, worse when disabled or longterm sick (be that mental, physical, or both).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 10, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Thanks.
> A home visit crumbs.
> I guess it's best as knowing the way I am, it would get to the day and I'd have a panic attack and not be able to get to the appointment.
> 
> Is it easy enough to get a home visit?


 
It's not easy, but it's not impossible either, especially as, IIRC, one of your issues is agoraphobia?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 10, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Got the online HB and CT form filled in today. Fucked it up twice, clicked the wrong thing and had to start virtually again but it's submitted now.
> Just waiting for them to post it now and then it can be signed and sent back. And of course there will be no more hiccoughs along the way
> 
> Also heard back from payroll and after my huge big rant at them they have said not to worry about the overpayment for now and the will (re) send the SSP1 form. I say 're' as they claim they already sent one but I never received it


 
Well done! Very impressive!!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 10, 2013)

kittyP said:


> It just seems the more I do to try and sort things out, the more people just expect that I am magically better and can cope.


 
Hell is other people. Their expectations even more so. The only people who can determine where you are in terms of your health are you and the professionals you see, not friends, and not relatives.



> It feels like it's all going to go seriously wrong in my head. Even worse than before.


 
Anxiety. Probably not helped by the sustained adrenaline surge you gave yourself dealing the HB/CTB forms and dealing with payroll. I used to get a horrible dizzying feeling where my thoughts would just speed up and everything would crowd in. Took me a while (and about a year of medication) before I learned to ease myself down from it.



> And I missed my CMHT appointment as i got the wrong fucking day


 
Damn!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 10, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I have to worry about it. These are people that I love but they are getting sick of my shit.


 
Warning: I'm going to be horrible about people you love.

Quite frankly, fuck 'em. You can't make yourself whole again to a timetable or for their convenience!!!



> Yes. I can probably call tomorrow or get someone to do it but I get the feeling other people are getting more than a bit sick of doing this stuff for me.


 
If they care about you, they won't mind. 

Bear in mind that *your* feelings about how they feel will be coloured by your own feelings about yourself. If you're seeing yourself as weak or a failure (common with depression, and pretty much never accurate!), it'll colour how you think they see you.



> I guess I do it or I break, properly this time.
> 
> I can just feel something really fucking bad coming.


 
To be fair, that sense of impending doom is a feature of much anxiety and depression. How could it not be when you're in inner turmoil?


----------



## kittyP (Jan 10, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> It's not easy, but it's not impossible either, especially as, IIRC, one of your issues is agoraphobia?



Not agoraphobia as such, I am just prone to huge panic attacks which stop me leaving the bedroom let alone the house. 
But other times I can go out.


----------



## Manter (Jan 10, 2013)

you're doing fabulously to get so much done... I find official forms a bit daunting when I am well and I know when I was ill, a trip to the post office would take me a few days to psych up for (and a couple of failed attempts  )

I suspect as a couple of other people have said, your loved ones aren't 'sick of your shit', but worried and occasionally frustrated and powerless and not sure what they can do to help....  part of being depressed is feeling bad and projecting those feelings onto others.  I guess you know that, but no harm hearing it.  

Ask for home visits- and get someone else to make calls for you if you need to.  Your loved ones may be pleased to be doing something useful- people always amazed me with what they would do for me when I asked

Sending hugs and moral support


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## kittyP (Jan 10, 2013)

Thank you guys x


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 10, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Not agoraphobia as such, I am just prone to huge panic attacks which stop me leaving the bedroom let alone the house.
> But other times I can go out.


 


it's worth bearing in mind when you get to the ESA paperwork / interview, to tend towards "when I am having a bad day, I can't do X" rather than "on a good day I can just about do Y" - the latter is likely to be interpreted as "this person can do Y with no problems"


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## kittyP (Jan 10, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:
			
		

> it's worth bearing in mind when you get to the ESA paperwork / interview, to tend towards "when I am having a bad day, I can't do X" rather than "on a good day I can just about do Y" - the latter is likely to be interpreted as "this person can do Y with no problems"



I yeah I get that. Thank you c


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## Jackobi (Jan 11, 2013)

kittyP said:


> They have not as yet no


 
Sorry about that. It's a shame because I've heard positive feedback from them locally. I'd hope that maybe communication was lost through junk mail filters, rather than a blatant non-response.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 11, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Not agoraphobia as such, I am just prone to huge panic attacks which stop me leaving the bedroom let alone the house.
> But other times I can go out.


 
So, dependent on your "inner state", then. Are they treating you with a combination of medication and therapy?


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## kittyP (Jan 11, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> So, dependent on your "inner state", then. Are they treating you with a combination of medication and therapy?


 
Yes.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 12, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Yes.


 
Good. When I was bad, they'd only just started doing that, rather than just giving you anti-depressants and mid tranks (NOT a good mix for making you feel normal, even though it did stop people panicking).


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## kittyP (Jan 14, 2013)

Been going through the shit storm of applying for ESA. 
Badgers did really well and the people on the phone where actually really nice. Apparently we can make a joint claim for ESA so he doesn't have to apply for JSA which is pretty good. 
Just dreading the idea of an assessment of my mentalness now.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 14, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Been going through the shit storm of applying for ESA.<snip>


Well done to both of you, I'd imagine that neither of you having to sign on would remove a lot of the pressure.  With any luck, the assessment won't be too much of an ordeal, but here's hoping that the result will be in your favour without needing to appeal.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 14, 2013)

Greebo said:
			
		

> Well done to both of you, I'd imagine that neither of you having to sign on would remove a lot of the pressure.  With any luck, the assessment won't be too much of an ordeal, but here's hoping that the result will be in your favour without needing to appeal.



Thank you x


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## kittyP (Jan 22, 2013)

Back on to ESA and HB today. 

I have no idea how people do this alone. 
If Badgers was not here and so pragmatic then I would..... I dunno


----------



## kittyP (Jan 22, 2013)

Also poor Vivaldi must be turning in his grave with all this hold music (((4 seasons)))


----------



## Yetman (Jan 22, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Back on to ESA and HB today.
> 
> I have no idea how people do this alone.
> If Badgers was not here and so pragmatic then I would..... I dunno


 
My mrs used to work as a community carer kind of person. She'd go round to people with obvious MH issues or even just some who'd had a life of suffering and struggled to cope in the real world and they had absolutely no help with any of this sort of stuff. And when they called to try and get whatever they could sorted out they'd get treated like idiots and basically brushed off. It's terrible that there's no aid for sorting out all this cos it's a nightmare for anyone - don't feel like that Kitty, my mrs used to really help people but even she's barred from speaking to the council about our bills etc for swearing at them down the phone in frustration


----------



## kittyP (Feb 1, 2013)

Jackobi said:


> Sorry about that. It's a shame because I've heard positive feedback from them locally. I'd hope that maybe communication was lost through junk mail filters, rather than a blatant non-response.


 
If I am up to getting out on Friday, Lambeth Mind have a drop in centre in the afternoons and it's just down the road. I'll see if I can get myself along.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 12, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Back on to ESA and HB today.
> 
> I have no idea how people do this alone.
> If Badgers was not here and so pragmatic then I would..... I dunno


only just saw this thread.
I hope it all got sorted now.
Did you apply for backdating with HB?


----------



## Badgers (Feb 12, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:
			
		

> only just saw this thread.
> I hope it all got sorted now.
> Did you apply for backdating with HB?



Not yet. The HB/CT people want a lot of stuff before the claim can go through. 

Two months bank statements 
Two months payslips 
Passports 
Rental contract

Letters from parents verifying that they have given us money to help with living expenses 

All this ^ despite the ESA being approved and the ESA notifying the HB/CT crowd of this 

This endless form filling and phone time is reducing my job hunting time too. It would be funny if it was not so infuriating and exhausting


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 12, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Not yet. The HB/CT people want a lot of stuff before the claim can go through.
> 
> Two months bank statements
> Two months payslips
> ...


I know exactly how that feels, sorry for you having to jump through the hoops.
I _think_ the backdating has to be done when you originally apply for HB (but I could be wrong so you'll need to check more), the one thing *NOT* to say is:
"I didn't know I could claim"
in fact I think it says on the form that this is not a valid reason.
Best bet from what I've read of your situation in this thread would probably be "health problems" coupled with "given wrong information" (the fact that Kittyp employers did not let her know she could claim JSA at the time means she was unable rather than unaware to claim HB, but am unsure if there is an onus on the employer to let you know this?)


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## Badgers (Feb 12, 2013)

I have a meeting at Olive Morris House, Brixton in a weeks time. Will bring the backdated ESA forms with me and work from there. 

A week to wait for an appointment and they said around three weeks to process the claim :sigh:


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 12, 2013)

Badgers said:


> I have a meeting at Olive Morris House, Brixton in a weeks time. Will bring the backdated ESA forms with me and work from there.
> 
> A week to wait for an appointment and they said around three weeks to process the claim :sigh:


best of luck with it all.
you don't need an appointment if it just to hand documents in, you can just drop in get a ticket from reception and have your documents scanned (and get a receipt/reference number), takes from 20 minutes to a piece of string depending on how busy it is but this means that as soon as you've handed in all the documents in, the countdown to get it processed is started.
Keep a note/track of every interaction you have with them be it phone calls handing in documents: absolutely everything, if they make a cock-up or there are any problems it's good to be able to refer to it.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 12, 2013)

^ Thanks 

Just went down to the post office to collect our discounted Oyster bus cards. They said would not issue one for me as my NI number was not on our 'joint' ESA claim.

Not really the woman in the post office fault but the ESA had assured me there would be no problem. So went down to the job centre who told me to call the ESA (from their phone at least) and check.

Spoke to a bloke at the ESA who told me that it is NOT a joint claim, only a claim for my wife. Told me I was not entitled to JSA even though I am currently working under 15 hours a week. Suggested I apply for working tax credits (wtf?) instead. Also had the cheek to tell me that £111pw was all we needed to cover living expenses.

I pointed out that I was phoning to apply for jobs, paying to travel to interviews and calling the ESA and other benefits people which is pretty much wiping out the £71pw we are getting. Also told him that all this time I am spending jumping through their hoops is taking away my ability to look for work and care for my wife. He pretty much said 'tough luck' at the end of the call 

So....... A chap in the job centre (Robert who was a star) got on the phone to the ESA again, told them what had happened and put me on the phone. The second (much nicer) woman said 'of course it is a joint claim' and would send out a letter first class today.


----------



## tufty79 (Feb 12, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> best of luck with it all.
> you don't need an appointment if it just to hand documents in, you can just drop in get a ticket from reception and have your documents scanned (and get a receipt/reference number), takes from 20 minutes to a piece of string depending on how busy it is but this means that as soon as you've handed in all the documents in, the countdown to get it processed is started.
> Keep a note/track of every interaction you have with them be it phone calls handing in documents: absolutely everything, if they make a cock-up or there are any problems it's good to be able to refer to it.


yup. always get receipts, always keep a copy of anything you give to them.


----------



## tufty79 (Feb 12, 2013)

i would also recommend keeping notes of names of people you speak to ( which i think you're doing anyway ) for both hb and esa, as well as dates/times. also hate to say it, but be wary of using 'no to 0870' to get around calling the esa 0845 numbers. turned out i was getting through to the wrong office without either of us realising, which meant that the 'right' department had no record on their system of about three months worth of calls from me (and eventually explained
exactly why things like requests for confirmation of entitlement letters weren't getting actioned)


----------



## Greebo (Feb 12, 2013)

Badgers said:


> <snip>So....... A chap in the job centre (Robert who was a star) got on the phone to the ESA again, told them what had happened and put me on the phone. The second (much nicer) woman said 'of course it is a joint claim' and would send out a letter first class today.


Result!   

Shame about all the hassle before this though.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 13, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> I _think_ the backdating has to be done when you originally apply for HB (but I could be wrong so you'll need to check more), the one thing *NOT* to say is:
> "I didn't know I could claim"
> in fact I think it says on the form that this is not a valid reason.


 
One positive is that the ESA people did tell us to get the HB/CT people to contact them if there are problems with the claim. The ESA was backdated so this may be a positive thing, still hard to say I suppose.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 14, 2013)

Badgers said:


> So....... A chap in the job centre (Robert who was a star) got on the phone to the ESA again, told them what had happened and put me on the phone. The second (much nicer) woman said 'of course it is a joint claim' and would send out a letter first class today.


 
Letter arrived today confirming that it _*IS*_ a joint ESA claim so back to the post office and then the tube station a second time. At least we will both now have half price bus travel for the next six months. Also I can (should I need) get prescriptions/dental work free until I find work of course. 

*ALSO* today I got a form for the HB/CT benefit claim titled Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Certificate of earnings form which I was not expecting. Looks pretty straightforward but more form filling  and pretty much makes photocopying my payslips a pointless waste of time and money.


----------



## Onket (Feb 14, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Also I can (should I need) get prescriptions/dental work free until I find work of course.


 
Good luck with that. I found that once a dentist knew I was on benefits he would invariably say I didn't need anything doing.


----------



## kittyP (Feb 14, 2013)

Onket said:


> Good luck with that. I found that once a dentist knew I was on benefits he would invariably say I didn't need anything doing.


 
That's what I thought 

Oooh I forgot to tell you. I called Unison for Greenwich and I am still fully covered by them


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 14, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Letter arrived today confirming that it _*IS*_ a joint ESA claim so back to the post office and then the tube station a second time. At least we will both now have half price bus travel for the next six months. Also I can (should I need) get prescriptions/dental work free until I find work of course.
> 
> *ALSO* today I got a form for the HB/CT benefit claim titled Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Certificate of earnings form which I was not expecting. Looks pretty straightforward but more form filling  and pretty much makes photocopying my payslips a pointless waste of time and money.


oh, are you self employed then?
I have to fill one of these regularly, pretty straightforward.


----------



## Greebo (Feb 14, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Letter arrived today confirming that it _*IS*_ a joint ESA claim so back to the post office and then the tube station a second time. At least we will both now have half price bus travel for the next six months. Also I can (should I need) get prescriptions/dental work free until I find work of course.<snip>


^Liked for this bit.



> <snip>more form filling  and pretty much makes photocopying my payslips a pointless waste of time and money.


You have my sympathy there - sometimes it feels as if the red tape's there to make you just give up.  After every session with a form, do something nice for yourself, no matter how little, even a mug of tea.  IME that makes it more bearable.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 14, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> oh, are you self employed then?
> I have to fill one of these regularly, pretty straightforward.


 
I am PAYE part time and self employed (sole trader) for bits and pieces.


----------



## kittyP (Feb 14, 2013)

Do we really need pay for to take photocopies to the benefits place or will they photocopy the originals there if we take them?


----------



## Badgers (Feb 14, 2013)

Greebo said:


> You have my sympathy there - sometimes it feels as if the red tape's there to make you just give up. After every session with a form, do something nice for yourself, no matter how little, even a mug of tea. IME that makes it more bearable.


 
Yeah....

I have known (in my family) some genuine scroungers but this shit is harder, more stressful and more boring than any job I have ever done


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Feb 14, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Do we really need pay for to take photocopies to the benefits place or will they photocopy the originals there if we take them?


 
Sometimes they will ONLY accept photocopies of the originals that they have made themselves, if it's something (eg payslips / bank statements / tenancy agreement) that you are bringing in as proof for them.  I presume so there is no opportunity for you to give them faked photocopies.

However, if you want to keep a photocopy of your application form for your own records (very advisable) then it would be a good idea to do it yourself before you go in, as they prob won't want to do that for you.


----------



## Onket (Feb 14, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Oooh I forgot to tell you. I called Unison for Greenwich and I am still fully covered by them


 
Excellent. I hope you've been in touch with them & they are helpful.


----------



## kittyP (Feb 14, 2013)

Onket said:


> Excellent. I hope you've been in touch with them & they are helpful.


 
They were really lovely on the phone and told me to call whenever I needed to


----------



## Badgers (Feb 14, 2013)

Ms Ordinary said:
			
		

> Sometimes they will ONLY accept photocopies of the originals that they have made themselves, if it's something (eg payslips / bank statements / tenancy agreement) that you are bringing in as proof for them.  I presume so there is no opportunity for you to give them faked photocopies.
> 
> However, if you want to keep a photocopy of your application form for your own records (very advisable) then it would be a good idea to do it yourself before you go in, as they prob won't want to do that for you.



Seems a pain that they want me to complete a form with my PAYE salary details over the last months. Also the contact details for the employer. Also copies of the payslips and possibly to see the original copies too. They have my NI number and also want copies of bank statements that show my salary going into my account weekly. 

Maybe this nonsense is the reason the benefits system is struggling


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 14, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Do we really need pay for to take photocopies to the benefits place or will they photocopy the originals there if we take them?


if you bring the originals they will scan them nowadays, so you don't need to make photocopies.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 14, 2013)

Badgers said:


> I am PAYE part time and self employed (sole trader) for bits and pieces.


I've only had to fill in the self employed sole trader bit as I'm not on PAYE, this might make it more annoying.


Badgers said:


> Seems a pain that they want me to complete a form with my PAYE salary details over the last months. Also the contact details for the employer. Also copies of the payslips and possibly to see the original copies too. They have my NI number and also want copies of bank statements that show my salary going into my account weekly.
> 
> Maybe this nonsense is the reason the benefits system is struggling


Do you really have to put the PAYE details in the certificate of earnings?
I thought you only entered your self employed gains in there, but as I said never was in this particular situation though.

I fear the move to UTC from April, I mean, a large government project involving a massive IT infrastructure, what could possibly go wrong...
Lambeth HB can't even get my first name right when they write to me or my caseworker


----------



## Badgers (Feb 15, 2013)

_Another_ (sorry guys) quick question........

We have our letters from the ESA all sorted by I wanted to know about claiming prescriptions or dental. Is there a card we should each have or something? Do the doctors have this sort of thing on file? Seems impractical to carry letters around with us everywhere. 

Also.....

We paid £29.10 for a 3 month Prescription prepayment certificate (PPC) starting 02/02/2013 which was _just_ before our ESA claim was approved and backdated. Can we get a refund on that?


----------



## Biddlybee (Feb 15, 2013)

Give them a bell I reckon: 0300 330 1343

Should be a card like the mat one, I think.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 15, 2013)

There is a 0300 number for queries about PPCs but these calls from mobiles are crippling us financially 

Ah, just found this:




> If for any reason you need to claim a refund on money paid for your prescription prepayment certificate, please send the original certificate and a letter explaining why you want a refund to:
> 
> NHS Business Services Authority
> Help with Health Costs
> ...


 
So we can 'claim' for a refund it seems but am not sending back the card until I know that we are covered.

Perhaps also on the previous one we purchased as the ESA was backdated?


----------



## Badgers (Feb 15, 2013)

Worth people using this website to try and get around paying for mobile calls
http://www.saynoto0870.com/numbersearch.php 

I have done this but there are still charges outside our call allowance we can ill afford


----------



## Biddlybee (Feb 15, 2013)

I've just called and asked about certificate/card/letter - and they said the letter is the proof, but it can be a copy.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 15, 2013)

Biddlybee said:


> Give them a bell I reckon: 0300 330 1343
> 
> Should be a card like the mat one, I think.


 
mat one?


----------



## Biddlybee (Feb 15, 2013)

maternity exemption you get a card, ignore me - out of my depth


----------



## toggle (Feb 15, 2013)

Badgers said:


> mat one?


maternity. i get a card for the tax credits exemption we have.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm assuming that with JSA you get free treatment at the dentist like with JSA but not 100% though, last time I just said on the form they asked me to fill at the dentist surgery that my partner was on JSA and got treated for free.
I've just filled in a HC1n for free treatment and this came with a HC5(D) form for refund of NHS dental charges so maybe this would be of use to you if you've paid for treatment during the period your ESA is backdated for.
Just reading that HC5 form: there is a whole list of them, each are specific to the type of treatment you want to claim a refund for, you can also claim refunds for prescriptions it says on there.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 15, 2013)

Biddlybee said:


> I've just called and asked about certificate/card/letter - and they said the letter is the proof, but it can be a copy.


 
Good stuff, thanks SO much x 
I will make copies for _travelling_ to any appointments/chemists with.


----------



## toggle (Feb 15, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Good stuff, thanks SO much x
> I will make copies for _travelling_ to any appointments/chemists with.


 
iirc, there's some stuff about reclaiming travel costs as well. might help if you have specialist's appts to get to and stuff.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 15, 2013)

toggle said:


> iirc, there's some stuff about reclaiming travel costs as well. might help if you have specialist's appts to get to and stuff.


 
It is a tough one. I always go along to appointments too (bus on a good day, taxi at least one way on a bad day) so the costs do mount up.


----------



## toggle (Feb 15, 2013)

i don't know how to do that tbh. i'm a 10 min drive from the main hospital here. so i've not bothered.

but thankfully i've got a decent boss that will make sure i'm covered if he has to go do it all himself, so I could go with bakunin to the hospital appt he didn't bother teeling me about until suppertime the night before.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 19, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Not yet. The HB/CT people want a lot of stuff before the claim can go through.
> 
> Two months bank statements
> Two months payslips
> ...


 
Off to do battle


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Feb 19, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Off to do battle


----------



## Greebo (Feb 19, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Off to do battle


"The mighty Badger, his whiskers bristling, his great cudgel whistling through the air"  ("Wind in the Willows" - Kenneth Graham)

Good luck and give 'em hell, in a way which won't get you into trouble, of course.


----------



## kittyP (Feb 19, 2013)

Seems like Badgers managed to get it sorted but we won't count our chickens till the money is in the account iyswim? 

Thank you all so much for your help and support. It has been invaluable x x x


----------



## Badgers (Feb 27, 2013)

Sigh.....

We were told Kitty would need to complete an ATOS questionnaire as part of the ESA claim. After a week or two I called the ESA/Job Centre asking when this would arrive. They told me it did not look like one had been sent but not to worry, and that it can take up to three months.

Yesterday a letter from ATOS arrived saying they had not had our questionnaire back and if not filled in and returned by 05/03 the claim may be affected. Spoke to ATOS who said that they were unable to send out another ATOS questionnaire (even though they need it)  so I should call the ESA/Job Centre to get another one sent out.

ESA/Job Centre said they will resend the form. Hopefully it will be here in a few days giving us a day to complete it and get it back to ATOS


----------



## cesare (Feb 27, 2013)

Badgers The ESA50 questionnaire (which hopefully is the one you need) is available to download on this link. In the section "How the tests are applied" 

http://www.esahelp.co.uk/medicals.php


----------



## Badgers (Feb 27, 2013)

cesare said:
			
		

> Badgers The ESA50 questionnaire (which hopefully is the one you need) is available to download on this link. In the section "How the tests are applied"
> 
> http://www.esahelp.co.uk/medicals.php



I did ask and they said it was not


----------



## Greebo (Feb 27, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Sigh.....
> 
> We were told Kitty would need to complete an ATOS questionnaire as part of the ESA claim. After a week or two I called the ESA/Job Centre asking when this would arrive. They told me it did not look like one had been sent but not to worry, and that it can take up to three months.
> <snip>ESA/Job Centre said they will resend the form. Hopefully it will be here in a few days giving us a day to complete it and get it back to ATOS


FFS!


----------



## cesare (Feb 27, 2013)

Badgers said:


> I did ask and they said it was not



Not the right form, or not available to download?


----------



## Badgers (Feb 27, 2013)

cesare said:
			
		

> Not the right form, or not available to download?



Not available and had to be posted


----------



## cesare (Feb 27, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Not available and had to be posted



I just downloaded it from that link. So you could download it, complete it and send it in (recorded delivery). Just to cover yourselves until they get their act together.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 27, 2013)

cesare said:


> I just downloaded it from that link. So you could download it, complete it and send it in (recorded delivery). Just to cover yourselves until they get their act together.


 
Printing now  

xthanksx


----------



## Badgers (Feb 27, 2013)

WE are going to fill in the one I have just printed out. Then fill it in but take a photocopy before posting in case they ask for an original. Then we can just copy it out.


----------



## cesare (Feb 27, 2013)

Badgers said:


> WE are going to fill in the one I have just printed out. Then fill it in but take a photocopy before posting in case they ask for an original. Then we can just copy it out.


Good plan


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 27, 2013)

Badgers said:


> WE are going to fill in the one I have just printed out. Then fill it in but take a photocopy before posting in case they ask for an original. Then we can just copy it out.


Yep, I scan everything to do with benefits I hand in.
I also have a dedicated calendar where every single interaction with them is duly noted in as much details as possible for future reference.


----------



## geminisnake (Feb 27, 2013)

Yep, always scan or photocopy anything to do with benefits so you have a copy, in case they a) lie b) misplace the original c) lie. Me suspicious??


----------



## kittyP (Feb 27, 2013)

Gonna have a look at it tonight and hopefully get it sent off tomorrow recorded delivery and marked "parivate and confidential. Only to be opened by ATOS". Is that right? 

Badgers said it's about 20 pages but a lot of that is their writing and tick boxes. 
I know it must vary due to mental state when filling in but roughly low long do you think it normally takes to complete? 
I am trying to work out whether to do it tonight, when I will be in a better mood but badges doesn't get home til late or in the morning when I will be all groggy and schmeeer from meds and sleep.


----------



## Dan U (Feb 27, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Sigh.....
> 
> We were told Kitty would need to complete an ATOS questionnaire as part of the ESA claim. After a week or two I called the ESA/Job Centre asking when this would arrive. They told me it did not look like one had been sent but not to worry, and that it can take up to three months.
> 
> ...



It's like the 7 circles of hell 

Ffs


----------



## kittyP (Feb 27, 2013)

Dan U said:


> It's like the 7 circles of hell
> 
> Ffs


 
And considering I suffer from a severe anxiety disorder, not great in helping me get better either


----------



## geminisnake (Feb 27, 2013)

The lady who is coming to help me fill mine in reckoned 1 1/2hrs to go all the way through it. Have you got the guidelines for filling it in?? VP emailed me them if you want me to forward them to you?(pm me your email)


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 28, 2013)

Dan U said:


> It's like the 7 circles of hell
> 
> Ffs


 
"Like"? Satan actually bought in a DWP franchise to Hell, he admires their work so much!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 28, 2013)

geminisnake said:


> The lady who is coming to help me fill mine in reckoned 1 1/2hrs to go all the way through it. Have you got the guidelines for filling it in?? VP emailed me them if you want me to forward them to you?(pm me your email)


 
Only 1.5 hours?


----------



## kittyP (Feb 28, 2013)

I have just read the guidlines to filling it in and am in tears.
A. Because it is so brutal and dehumanising and confusing.
B. It has brought back in to focus just how bad my condition is/ can be and I feel ashamed.

I am planning on getting Badgers to fill it in on my behalf and fill in the bit to say that he has done so so they don't think I have been capable of doing it myself. Is this best?

Also, should I get badgers to write a letter/statement to support the claim saying how my condition can and does present, what it is like living with me and my condition and how it effects our everyday lives?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Feb 28, 2013)

Oh honey. I think its a good idea to get Badgers to help you with the form. Even if just for the moral support side of things... Not cre about writing a statement but you'd have to think quite carefully about what you up in it maybe framing it around eligibility criteria, if you do decide to get Bagers to write it. That's just of the top of my head maybe someone with more k nowledge and experience can advise better xx


----------



## kittyP (Feb 28, 2013)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> Oh honey. I think its a good idea to get Badgers to help you with the form. Even if just for the moral support side of things... Not cre about writing a statement but you'd have to think quite carefully about what you up in it maybe framing it around eligibility criteria, if you do decide to get Bagers to write it. That's just of the top of my head maybe someone with more knowledge and experience can advise better xx


 
Oh I was never going to be able to fill it in myself anyway. Even reading the guide has sent me into a bit of a state. 

I was reading in the guide about statements from people who know you personally and that they can help as long as that person does not contradict anything written on the form and is brutally honest. 
I am thinking of him saying stuff like that I often drop to the floor crying and rocking with my fingers in my ears and that has happened in the kitchen where it is dangerous. Running and hiding in the bedroom unable to talk. 
Self harm  that he has seen the effects after the event. 
The fact that I am unable to go anywhere with out him or my mum (who lives in Kent) when he is not available to come with me. 
The fact that I am mostly a mix of listless and unresponsive or oppositely so tense that I can't coordinate or concentrate properly. 
That I vary rarely get out of bed until the afternoon and even then don't get dressed most days. 
He has to really push and constantly remind me to get me to do anything like wash myself, do washing, tidy up etc. 
He has to do all the shopping and coordinating of finances, benefits claims, answering my phone if I do not recognise the number (which may be the CMHT) etc. 

Sorry if all of this is too much information but I just want to be able to put across to them just how hard it actually is sometimes. 
All that I sated is actually true.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Feb 28, 2013)

Oh lovely I just want to give you a big hug...


----------



## kittyP (Feb 28, 2013)

Sorry that I am posting this stuff in two places but I am panicking a bit. 

I have also just looked at the actual ESA50 form (printed from the DWP website) and it is different to the guidelines that I have but only slightly. 
The sections are numbered differently and it says there should be a section 20 to say if you have filled it in on someone else's behalf and that isn't there on the form I have. 
Now I am worried I have the wrong sodding form ​


----------



## kittyP (Feb 28, 2013)

cesare said:


> Badgers The ESA50 questionnaire (which hopefully is the one you need) is available to download on this link. In the section "How the tests are applied"
> 
> http://www.esahelp.co.uk/medicals.php


 
I think this is the wrong questionnaire Cesare. 
That is the "limited capability for work" questionnaire but I think I need a "work capability assessment". 
Oh I dunno any more


----------



## kittyP (Feb 28, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I think this is the wrong questionnaire Cesare.
> That is the "limited capability for work" questionnaire but I think I need a "work capability assessment".
> Oh I dunno any more


 
No, it is the right one I think. It just doesn't add up to the guide properly. 
Oh god I am getting so confused.


----------



## toggle (Feb 28, 2013)

kittyP said:


> No, it is the right one I think. It just doesn't add up to the guide properly.
> Oh god I am getting so confused.


 
i think that is the intent. make it difficult so a lot of people give up.

being confused isn't your failure. that might make it easier to cope with their bullshit


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 28, 2013)

Maybe you had better stop looking at both the form and instructions and wait for badgers, it doesn't sound to me like you need the extra stress.

e2a: missing and wrong word in original sentence


----------



## Badgers (Feb 28, 2013)

Calm calm, there is all of tomorrow and wise urban support


----------



## kittyP (Feb 28, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> Maybe you had better stop looking at either of those and wait for badgers, it doesn't sound to me like you need the extra stress.


 
I think this is probably best. 
I am just scared about not sending it in on time and badgers has a big interview tomorrow morning


----------



## Yetman (Feb 28, 2013)

Take a few minutes to chill and calm yourself Kit, have a cup of tea and forget about the form for a bit. Don't feel bad about how you are at the minute either, you will get better, and if Badgers or your mum was in your situation and you in theirs you'd do the same for them at the drop of a hat I'm sure - they only want to make sure you're ok. When you've taken ten minutes to calm your mind, go back to the form and take it one step at a time, remembering that if its confusing, it's cos the forms confusing, they always are - I think they make them that way to put people off filling them in correctly.

Or like they ^ said, just chill and wait til tomorrow. You are #1 priority at the moment, not stupid forms


----------



## kittyP (Feb 28, 2013)

Well, I was forced to stop as I had to go and throw up 
Will leave it till tomorrow afternoon and watch Buffy for now.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 28, 2013)

kittyP said:
			
		

> Well, I was forced to stop as I had to go and throw up
> Will leave it till tomorrow afternoon and watch Buffy for now.



Glass of wine (that is an order)


----------



## moonsi til (Mar 1, 2013)

My advice to people is to always fill out the questions based on your worst days.


----------



## kittyP (Mar 1, 2013)

moonsi til said:


> My advice to people is to always fill out the questions based on your worst days.


 
Thank you. It will be.
Badgers is going to do the actual filling as well so I can think properly, well, try. 
I just need to remember to make a note of that somewhere as I want them to know I couldn't do it myself and there is no page to declare that you are filling it in on someone else's behalf. 

But well, if they stop my money, it's not as drastic as it was as BADGERS GOT THE JOB  x


----------



## wtfftw (Mar 1, 2013)

Go badgers!


----------



## toggle (Mar 1, 2013)

one thing we found helpful for when it came time to fill in forms was to lkeep notes of things that happen as they happen in bakunin's big book of loopy. cause otherwise we forget to fill in the stuff on the forms. mainly the thngs that are a bit silly cause i'm there to catch them, but coiuld be downright dangerous if i wasn't.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 1, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I just need to remember to make a note of that somewhere as I want them to know I couldn't do it myself and there is no page to declare that you are filling it in on someone else's behalf.


 
Can this get fitted in in one of the answers?  I think it's definitely a valid point to make.



kittyP said:


> BADGERS GOT THE JOB  x


----------



## Badgers (Mar 1, 2013)

wtfftw said:
			
		

> Go badgers!



Shhh.. 

In case 'they' are reading  

I have to sort out a fair bit of stuff before we get any money in our Kitty (fnarr) but I am not sure (short) term this job will totally stop our/her benefits.


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 1, 2013)

kittyP said:


> But well, if they stop my money, it's not as drastic as it was as BADGERS GOT THE JOB  x


 
\o/\o/\o/ yay badgers


----------



## Voley (Mar 1, 2013)

Nice one Badgers.


----------



## toggle (Mar 1, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Shhh..
> 
> In case 'they' are reading
> 
> I have to sort out a fair bit of stuff before we get any money in our Kitty (fnarr) but I am not sure (short) term this job will totally stop our/her benefits.


 
do everything you can to get the dla. even if ti's just 20 a week, it's a passport to extra wtc, extra earnings before they knock it opff your hb. bakunin gets 40 a week dla and ti's worth over 100 a week to us in passported stuff.

and ti's not income dependent


----------



## Badgers (Mar 1, 2013)

Yeah. I need to update my HMRC stuff then sort out payment terms of new gig and then check in with DWP (who I am now working in conjunction with btw) so not an overnight change.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 1, 2013)

very quick thought - since I should have gone out about half an hour ago

firstly, well done Badgers on the job.

DLA is not means tested at all, so would be wholly on kittyP 's health circumstances.

Assuming KittyP has got sufficient NI contributions in whatever the qualifying period is, she should get contributions based ESA (assuming of course the medical hurdles are cleared) for a certain time - think it's 6 months - before getting in to the realms of income related ESA.  The latter would have to be as a couple, and with a working partner, may be less likely. 

My understanding of how tax credits go when one partner's working and the other's too ill to work, is kinda limited. 

I think earlier, there was a suggestion of a joint ESA claim - with one of you working, that idea's now buggered.

But as ever, if in doubt, claim.


----------



## kittyP (Mar 1, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> very quick thought - since I should have gone out about half an hour ago
> 
> firstly, well done Badgers on the job.
> 
> ...


 
My NI contributions should be all up to date. 
I had/have been working solidly for the same place for 11 years up until this period of sickness. 
I have been off work for a year now with this condition. 

I know the joint ESA claim will be stopped but surely they can just transfer and adjust it for me? 

I won't have to do a whole new questionnaire and stuff will I?


----------



## kittyP (Mar 1, 2013)

Thank god, we received through the post today a new proper questionnaire that fits the guide and has the space for "why you are filling it in on someone elses' behalf". *phew*


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 1, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> DLA is not means tested at all, so would be wholly on kittyP 's health circumstances.


 
Just a quick point of order for other readers: Lambeth don't do so (so Kitty should be fine), but some local authorities will try and persuade you that DLA *is* means-tested, in order to save themselves having to pay Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. I can think of several people on Urban alone whose local authorities have "tried it on" in this way, so it's always worth double-checking *any* advice or information that either your local authority *or* the DWP give you.


----------



## kittyP (Mar 1, 2013)

Sorry CnPed from the Atos thread but I am worried about it. 

Another quick question about the return address for the Capability for work Questionnaire? 

We have one envelope that has the return address as Wembly SW95 9EB, and another which says Glasgow G90.
Anyone know which is the correct address? 
I don't want to end up sending it to the wrong place. 

Form is almost completed with just one bit to do tomorrow morning as Badgers hand is too cramped from writing to carry on.


----------



## toggle (Mar 1, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Just a quick point of order for other readers: Lambeth don't do so (so Kitty should be fine), but some local authorities will try and persuade you that DLA *is* means-tested, in order to save themselves having to pay Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. I can think of several people on Urban alone whose local authorities have "tried it on" in this way, so it's always worth double-checking *any* advice or information that either your local authority *or* the DWP give you.


 
what bastards.

whatever else you are told kittyP, vp is right, DLA is not means tested.

and what he's not spelled out is that it dosen't count when calculating any other benefits.they cannot count your dla as part of income when calculating how much they give you in HB


----------



## geminisnake (Mar 1, 2013)

Yay Badgers, chuffed for you


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 1, 2013)

toggle said:


> what bastards.


 
indeed.

 in a big way.

any such authority wants exposing and having things thrown at them.



toggle said:


> whatever else you are told kittyP, vp is right, DLA is not means tested.
> 
> and what he's not spelled out is that it dosen't count when calculating any other benefits.they cannot count your dla as part of income when calculating how much they give you in HB


 
yes and no.

DLA isn't counted as income when calculating means tested benefits.

But the fact that you get DLA means you may be entitled to more housing benefit if your income is such that you're not already getting your full rent paid.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 2, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> indeed.
> 
> in a big way.
> 
> ...


 
Yep, the "disability premium" (or whatever it's now called).


----------



## toggle (Mar 2, 2013)

its somewhere in the region of 40 quid a week


----------



## kittyP (Mar 2, 2013)

Form finished.
Badgers photocopied everything at the Library.
Got to the post office just as it was closed at 12.30 

Still, registered post first thing Monday will get it there by Tuesday won't it?
It's only gotta go to Wembly.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Mar 2, 2013)

Wish I'd spotted your post earlier - Herne Hill post office in Costcutter is open till 2pm on Saturdays...
Think it's only Special Delivery that guarantees delivery by next day - so double check when you send it.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Mar 2, 2013)

(actually just realised that while the post office may be open, the last collection might've been earlier so taking in at 2pm today may have been the same as taking in on Monday morning anyway).


----------



## kittyP (Mar 2, 2013)

Cheers Ms Ordinary


----------



## Badgers (Mar 3, 2013)

That ATOS form is horrid. I filled it in for kittyP and it increased stress between us, tears for kittyP and left my hand aching  It was full of repetition and a waste of time and paper frankly. 

If somebody who is on benefits due to weak mental health has to do this alone they seriously have my pity. It is the sort of paperwork that is part of the cost (to the UK taxpayer) that increases benefits costs, not the claimants who need help. Atos and Capita will earn over £540 million administering these sort of 1980's forms so I hope their shareholders are happy while people cry and die because they don't have the strength to jump through endless hoops. 

Inside I am putting them first (well top 10) against the wall come the revolution but in reality I bet they sleep like babies on their Egyptian cotton bed sheets and dream of work delegation....


----------



## Schmetterling (Mar 3, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Form finished.
> Badgers photocopied everything at the Library.
> Got to the post office just as it was closed at 12.30
> 
> ...


Post offices open on Sunday
http://www.kgbanswers.co.uk/is-there-any-post-office-open-in-london-on-a-sunday-thank-you/11255863


----------



## wtfftw (Mar 3, 2013)

Badgers said:


> That ATOS form is horrid. I filled it in for kittyP and it increased stress between us, tears for kittyP and left my hand aching  It was full of repetition and a waste of time and paper frankly.
> 
> If somebody who is on benefits due to weak mental health has to do this alone they seriously have my pity. It is the sort of paperwork that is part of the cost (to the UK taxpayer) that increases benefits costs, not the claimants who need help. Atos and Capita will earn over £540 million administering these sort of 1980's forms so I hope their shareholders are happy while people cry and die because they don't have the strength to jump through endless hoops.
> 
> Inside I am putting them first (well top 10) against the wall come the revolution but in reality I bet they sleep like babies on their Egyptian cotton bed sheets and dream of work delegation....


It's all such fucking inhumane bollocks. 

I'm currently stropping as I'm filling in one a year and that's currently for NI credits which is less than £3 a week. And I'm about to have a medical. They're increasing the expenditure and blaming me for it. Fucking nobs.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 3, 2013)

wtfftw said:


> It's all such fucking inhumane bollocks.
> 
> I'm currently stropping as I'm filling in one a year and that's currently for NI credits which is less than £3 a week. And I'm about to have a medical. They're increasing the expenditure and blaming me for it. Fucking nobs.


^This is more of less what I've been saying for years, come to think of it, it's decades now.  The trouble is that a lot of people don't bloody listen (let alone believe it) until they're the one needing to fill in that form and attend that so-called medical.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Mar 4, 2013)

Badgers said:


> That ATOS form is horrid. I filled it in for kittyP and it increased stress between us, tears for kittyP and left my hand aching  It was full of repetition and a waste of time and paper frankly.
> 
> If somebody who is on benefits due to weak mental health has to do this alone they seriously have my pity. It is the sort of paperwork that is part of the cost (to the UK taxpayer) that increases benefits costs, not the claimants who need help. Atos and Capita will earn over £540 million administering these sort of 1980's forms so I hope their shareholders are happy while people cry and die because they don't have the strength to jump through endless hoops.
> 
> Inside I am putting them first (well top 10) against the wall come the revolution but in reality I bet they sleep like babies on their Egyptian cotton bed sheets and dream of work delegation....


I'm so glad I don't have to fill those anymore


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 4, 2013)

Greebo said:


> The trouble is that a lot of people don't bloody listen (let alone believe it) until they're the one needing to fill in that form and attend that so-called medical.


 
And then they make a fuss about being "forced to do it because of all those bloody scroungers"


----------



## Badgers (Mar 21, 2013)

Okay.... 

Our ESA claim was made this year but after some faffing about it was backdated to October 2012. We are also now in receipt of Housing/Council Tax benefits which is helpful. I wrote to the benefitsinfo@lambeth.gov.uk email address (post and email) on the 20th of February asking them to backdate these two benefits in line with the ESA claim. Not heard anything back so called them, a letter was (allegedly) sent on the 01st of March but never arrived. 

What they want us to provide (before backdating the claims) is a reason why we did not claim in October 2012. Anyone have any advice on what to say or not to say here?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 21, 2013)

Badgers said:


> What they want us to provide (before backdating the claims) is a reason why we did not claim in October 2012. Anyone have any advice on what to say or not to say here?


...paging ViolentPanda


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 21, 2013)

Badgers said:


> What they want us to provide (before backdating the claims) is a reason why we did not claim in October 2012. Anyone have any advice on what to say or not to say here?


 
Shelter have advice on backdating housing benefit here

Broadly speaking, there has to be "a good reason" for backdating.

Something like "I was in a coma in hospital and not able to communicate with anyone" would almost certainly qualify.

Something like "I didn't know I could claim" wouldn't.

Having been given duff information by DWP or council benefits staff might qualify, although proving this may be difficult if that was done verbally (hence my general stance that if in doubt, you should claim anyway)

It can be worth trying to get CAB or similar involved in a backdating claim.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 21, 2013)

Mrs Magpie said:


> ...paging ViolentPanda


Shoving my head into the bedroom....

Edited to add:  He's got this page (as well as others) open.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 21, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Shelter have advice on backdating housing benefit here
> 
> Broadly speaking, there has to be "a good reason" for backdating.
> 
> ...


 
Cheers Puddy_Tat. 

I was thinking of putting it down to stress due to medical conditions? Also the fact that the ESA was backdated should (????) work in our favour? 

Had heard that the "I didn't know I could claim" excuse was no good.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 21, 2013)

Badgers said:


> I was thinking of putting it down to stress due to medical conditions? Also the fact that the ESA was backdated should (????) work in our favour?


 
From what I've read / remembered on this thread, that sounds the most reasonable line for you to take (you of course know your circumstances better than I do.) 

That would fit the


> you have been unwell (including mental health problems) and unable to manage your personal affairs


Shelter refer to.

The council may want a separate letter from doctor / support worker (or some such) about this, although a backdated award of ESA may suffice.

Also, I note from the Shelter page that you can ask for a review if the council says no to the initial backdating request - some councils / benefits offices seem to work on the principle of saying no to everything then thinking about it if you appeal / request a review.  I don't know how Lambeth work.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 21, 2013)

Mrs Magpie said:


> ...paging ViolentPanda


 
Housing Benefit/CTB dept is a bastard, unfortunately. They pretty much actively hunt for reasons not to backdate, so you have to come up with something more substantive than "I didn't know I could get it".
As Puddy_Tat says, you can try the "I was told by (insert source here) that I couldn't get HB because I'm a private renter" (blaming JC+ seems to be common, and sometimes believed). There's also the truth, which is that Badgers and kitty have spent the last 3-4 months pretty much in a state of perpetual crisis, and have only been able to do these claims at all because they're getting on top of things/have had help (one can then work the "had help" thing by waxing fulsome about how the CAB/Benefits & Work/people on the internetz saved one's bacon). Also, as P_T says, it's worth talking to the local CAB (or Disability Advice Service Lambeth on 020 7738 5656, as they'll be able to help, or to put them onto someone who can) to see what they advise. Sometimes they have a "formula" response that they know gets results more often than not.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 21, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Cheers Puddy_Tat.
> 
> I was thinking of putting it down to stress due to medical conditions? Also the fact that the ESA was backdated should (????) work in our favour?
> 
> Had heard that the "I didn't know I could claim" excuse was no good.


 
Put as many reasons as you can think of, frankly. It's harder for them to reject if you give half a dozen different reasons - it means the have to find half a dozen ways of saying no!


----------



## Badgers (Mar 21, 2013)

Cheers again Puddy_Tat 



> you have been unwell (including mental health problems) and unable to manage your personal affairs


 sounds about right to me. I can include a doctors note covering sickness due to mental health and also the ESA backdate confirmation. 

Also is it worth mentioning that we have had to borrow (overdrafts?) to cover these costs? Paying bank charges of around £45 a month as a result of this borrowing?


----------



## Greebo (Mar 21, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Cheers again Puddy_Tat
> 
> sounds about right to me. I can include a doctors note covering sickness due to mental health and also the ESA backdate confirmation.
> 
> Also is it worth mentioning that we have had to borrow (overdrafts?) to cover these costs? Paying bank charges of around £45 a month as a result of this borrowing?


Worth a go but check with DASL.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 21, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Worth a go but check with DASL.


 
http://www.disabilitylambeth.org.uk/ ?


----------



## Greebo (Mar 21, 2013)

Badgers said:


> http://www.disabilitylambeth.org.uk/ ?


Yes.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 21, 2013)

Spoke to http://www.disabilitylambeth.org.uk/ who are very helpful.

Told to 'ham it up' and that stress and distress was the main cause.


----------



## kittyP (Mar 21, 2013)

Also I didn't recieve the SSP1 form from my employer fro months after I was supposed to so would not have been able to claim until we did.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 21, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Also I didn't recieve the SSP1 form from my employer fro months after I was supposed to so would not have been able to claim until we did.


Good point.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 24, 2013)

Did speak to the ESA on Friday. Was pleased as they said if the council resist backdating our HB and CTB then to contact them and they will assist. It would solve a LOT of problems if we got this backdated.


----------



## geminisnake (Mar 24, 2013)

fingers crossed for you


----------



## Badgers (Mar 25, 2013)

Draft:



> Dear Sir or Madam:
> 
> I am writing in reference to your letter dated the 01st March 2013 regarding the backdating of our council tax and housing benefits. Apologies for the lateness of this letter but as I explained on the phone your letter (posted the 01st March 2013) was not received.
> 
> ...


 
Thoughts?


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Mar 25, 2013)

I would consider omitting "financial support from parents" in case they view that as a gift that doesn't need to be repaid. See a thread from Mrs Magpie earlier this year where having helped out a neighbour with a rent payment caused problems, IIRC even though they had loaned money & needed it back from their neighbour, HB regarded it as a gift & would not cover rent for that period. (Not sure how similar the situations are, but worth bearing in mind).

Think it is fine to note the bank overdrafts and that these are incurring fees - I don't _think _you have to prove how you've covered your rent (ie not to worry if your overdrafts don't cover the rent you've had to pay out).

In general, don't start volunteering detail unless you have to. Any reasonable human would understand that you may have had to borrow money from friends & family to pay the rent, and that you'd need to pay them back - but I don't know if that counts for anything these days.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 25, 2013)

Cheers


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 25, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Cheers


Should the periods of sickness be from 22/02/*2012*, only the sentence as currently written makes it seem that your GP signed the fitness note a month before the period of sickness started? Unless I've read it wrong


----------



## Badgers (Mar 25, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> Should the periods of sickness be from 22/02/*2012*, only the sentence as currently written makes it seem that your GP signed the fitness note a month before the period of sickness started? Unless I've read it wrong


 
This is a current doctors note for three months but includes the statement 'has been signed off work since 28/02/2012'


----------



## Biddlybee (Mar 25, 2013)

First date you mention says 2012 rather than 2013.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 25, 2013)

Biddlybee said:


> First date you mention says 2012 rather than 2013.


 
Good spot. 
Have changed.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 25, 2013)

Ms Ordinary said:


> I would consider omitting "financial support from parents" in case they view that as a gift that doesn't need to be repaid. See a thread from Mrs Magpie earlier this year where having helped out a neighbour with a rent payment caused problems, IIRC even though they had loaned money & needed it back from their neighbour, HB regarded it as a gift & would not cover rent for that period. (Not sure how similar the situations are, but worth bearing in mind).


We've written off that loan because HB aren't budging and luckily we have a rule of don't lend money unless you can afford to wave it goodbye.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 25, 2013)

...not that we think HB should be let off the hook, more than our friend has enough shit already so we've said, don't worry, if some time in the future your circumstances change, but see it as a very long-term thing, our savings can take it and your well-being is more important etc etc.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 25, 2013)

Badgers said:


> This is a current doctors note for three months but includes the statement 'has been signed off work since 28/02/2012'


It just wasn't 100% clear to me. I find that you have to be absolutely 100% unambiguous with no room for confusion at all. I think if you include the statement in this post to me, it's all clear.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 25, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Draft:
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?


 
Drop the bit about only affording your rent through financial support from your parents. They'll take that as being okay not to backdate, 'cos "mummy and daddy paid it". They're cunts like that. Just mention having had to go overdrawn and pay bank charges because of it.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 25, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> Drop the bit about only affording your rent through financial support from your parents. They'll take that as being okay not to backdate, 'cos "mummy and daddy paid it". They're cunts like that. Just mention having had to go overdrawn and pay bank charges because of it.



Yeah, that is gone. Have tweaked the dates and will send soon. The letter they sent on the 01/03/13 never arrived and the replacement they claim to have sent has not arrived either


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 25, 2013)

And best of luck, Badgers & KittyP.


----------



## kittyP (Mar 25, 2013)

Thank you all so much. 

I know a lot of you answer these questions all the time on other threads so it means a lot that you still take the time to come here and help us out. 

Cheers x x x


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 25, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Thank you all so much.
> 
> I know a lot of you answer these questions all the time on other threads so it means a lot that you still take the time to come here and help us out.
> 
> Cheers x x x


You're welcome


----------



## Badgers (Apr 16, 2013)

So far... 

19/02 CT & HB awarded from 14/01

20/02 emailed and wrote requesting backdating from October 2012 in line with ESA 

21/03 called as had no response and was told letter (not received) had be sent requesting more information to assess claim. Told the letter would be resent. 

28/03 still no letter received from Lambeth so sent the paperwork recorded to support backdating of claim. 

16/04 called for update. Vague sounding chap said the claim will take four weeks and I should call back at the end of April. 

Plodding along....


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 19, 2013)

Badgers said:


> So far...
> 
> 19/02 CT & HB awarded from 14/01
> 
> ...


re the letter not arriving: classic Lambeth HB problem AFAICT, just found out about one dated November 2011 which I never received.
If a request fora copy to be resent has not work may I point you towards:
general
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/CouncilDemocracy/CommentsComplaints/​http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/CouncilDemocracy/MakingADifference/OurServiceStandards.htm​the detailed important ones
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/CouncilDemocracy/CommentsComplaints/HowToComplain.htm​http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/CouncilDemocracy/CommentsComplaints/WhoToComplainTo.htm​Make sure you give all the info they request in the complaint and prepare the text of the actual complaint beforehand, something along the lines of:

Details of your complaint >> "having found out on 21/03 that i had not received a letter you purpotedly sent me on 01/03 and having during that phone call been told that another copy would be sent to me I still have not received it as of today (date)"

Any action would you like us to take: Post me the bloody letter already!!!! << nope ignore that bit, try >> "Ensure the letter is actually sent, and double check it is correctly addressed to me, not anyone else."

Best of luck, I think it says a lot about them that I have all those links in my bookmarks 

e2a: oopss, had not read properly and only just now twigged you did send the paperwork to them so ignore the above, still, it helped me vent a bit of Lambeth anger.


----------



## Badgers (May 13, 2013)

Badgers said:


> So far...
> 
> 19/02 CT & HB awarded from 14/01
> 
> ...


 
Called after 4 weeks for an update and was told that the claim will take another week. 
Called a week later and was told the claims take 6 weeks to assess. 
Still nothing in writing at all. 

Nice and friendly people on the phone but sound fairly clueless, and they clearly have no actual guidelines to work with  

In all honesty we expect the claim to be rejected  but just want closure on this. It has been a one way street with us making all the calls, writing the letters and such


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Called after 4 weeks for an update and was told that the claim will take another week.
> Called a week later and was told the claims take 6 weeks to assess.
> Still nothing in writing at all.
> 
> ...


 
A suggestion - phone them up, ask about your claim, and when they repeat the above, ask to be forwarded to the complaints dept. If they ask why, tell them you're not satisfied with the contradictory messages you've received.  They rely on people not complaining (as complaints are one of the "metrics" on which performance is judged), so it's entirely possible they'll put a rocket up the arse of your claim just to prevent a complaint.


----------



## Badgers (May 13, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> A suggestion - phone them up, ask about your claim, and when they repeat the above, ask to be forwarded to the complaints dept. If they ask why, tell them you're not satisfied with the contradictory messages you've received. They rely on people not complaining (as complaints are one of the "metrics" on which performance is judged), so it's entirely possible they'll put a rocket up the arse of your claim just to prevent a complaint.


 
Very helpful advice VP ^


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 13, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> A suggestion - phone them up, ask about your claim, and when they repeat the above, ask to be forwarded to the complaints dept. If they ask why, tell them you're not satisfied with the contradictory messages you've received. They rely on people not complaining (as complaints are one of the "metrics" on which performance is judged), so it's entirely possible they'll put a rocket up the arse of your claim just to prevent a complaint.


 
Would that work with the DWP wrt them taking ages re-instating ESA after a successful appeal?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Would that work with the DWP wrt them taking ages re-instating ESA after a successful appeal?


 
Probably not. DWP aren't bothered by needing to meet minimum standards of customer service.


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 13, 2013)

No worries, ta though.


----------



## Badgers (May 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> A suggestion - phone them up, ask about your claim, and when they repeat the above, ask to be forwarded to the complaints dept. If they ask why, tell them you're not satisfied with the contradictory messages you've received. They rely on people not complaining (as complaints are one of the "metrics" on which performance is judged), so it's entirely possible they'll put a rocket up the arse of your claim just to prevent a complaint.


 
Called again. 

Same vague response telling me letters should have been sent. Told me claims take 8 weeks to process (see above) and that it should already have been sorted. I repeated that I have been told 4/6/8 weeks and she just apologised  

She said all she could do was send a 'memo' to hurry it up and would resend a letter (that they claim has been sent several times) again  

So I asked to be forwarded to the complaints department. She said there is no complaints department and all I can do is write (another fucking.....) letter to the standard address  I did tell her that I have taken advice but she just said there is nothing she can do. So I am getting a call back from a manager, hopefully today but it may be tomorrow.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 21, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Called again.
> 
> Same vague response telling me letters should have been sent. Told me claims take 8 weeks to process (see above) and that it should already have been sorted. I repeated that I have been told 4/6/8 weeks and she just apologised
> 
> ...


 
For fuck's sake!


----------



## astral (May 21, 2013)

This is ridiculous.  There HAS to be a complaints department.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 21, 2013)

They need a complaints hotline to deal with calls complaining that there's no Complaints Department


----------



## Greebo (May 21, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> They need a complaints hotline to deal with calls complaining that there's no Complaints Department


Word.  One problem - this is Lambeth.


----------



## kittyP (May 21, 2013)

Greebo said:
			
		

> Word.  One problem - this is Lambeth.



Badgers was soooo polite the them on the phone.
But he was really firm as well. 
They cannot get away with this


----------



## wtfftw (May 22, 2013)

It'll be the council complaints department not HB/LHA specific. 

This? 


(it's not the route for disputing decisions - that's reconsideration, appeals,  blah - but is for slowness and general ineptness). Cc in all the councillors etc. 

Ime councils have this silly idea of how long a claim takes to process but that's just some number they pull out of thin air to look better than the truth.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Called again.
> 
> Same vague response telling me letters should have been sent. Told me claims take 8 weeks to process (see above) and that it should already have been sorted. I repeated that I have been told 4/6/8 weeks and she just apologised
> 
> ...


call again and demand to speak to the complaints dept. if they try to fob you off again with this no such dept nonsense then say you'd like to make a complaint about there being no complaints dept and insist on speaking to a manager. when they put the manager on the line ask her/him about the complaints dept and if they repeat this nonsense demand to speak to someone in authority who knows what they're talking about. but FIRST OF ALL confirm that all calls are recorded.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Called after 4 weeks for an update and was told that the claim will take another week.
> Called a week later and was told the claims take 6 weeks to assess.
> Still nothing in writing at all.
> 
> ...


lambeth council complaints pdf
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...80FE2B5/0/CorporateComplaintsPolicy2stage.pdf


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Called after 4 weeks for an update and was told that the claim will take another week.
> Called a week later and was told the claims take 6 weeks to assess.
> Still nothing in writing at all.
> 
> ...


oh: i don't know if this is still the case but it certainly used to be that an interim hb payment had to be made something like 14 days after receipt of the claim. take this up with a benefits advisor, for example - if you're a single parent - with someone like gingerbread. http://www.gingerbread.org.uk/


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Yeah, that is gone. Have tweaked the dates and will send soon. The letter they sent on the 01/03/13 never arrived and the replacement they claim to have sent has not arrived either


ask them to communicate with you by email in future.


----------



## Badgers (May 22, 2013)

Cheers Pickers  

No call back yesterday and now 5pm today with no call. 
So I have typed up a detailed time line of events. Sending this by email with a covering letter first thing tomorrow + copying our ward councillors. Will print this out too and send recorded post  

Am thinking maybe of detailing bank charges incurred during this period and listing these too


----------



## equationgirl (May 22, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Cheers Pickers
> 
> No call back yesterday and now 5pm today with no call.
> So I have typed up a detailed time line of events. Sending this by email with a covering letter first thing tomorrow + copying our ward councillors. Will print this out too and send recorded post
> ...


I think you should.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Cheers Pickers
> 
> No call back yesterday and now 5pm today with no call.
> So I have typed up a detailed time line of events. Sending this by email with a covering letter first thing tomorrow + copying our ward councillors. Will print this out too and send recorded post
> ...


For your next email try copying one or two of this lot in http://directory.londoncouncils.gov.uk/directory/lambeth/officers/


----------



## Badgers (May 23, 2013)

Sent  

to: 
complaints@lambeth.gov.uk
benefitsinfo@lambeth.gov.uk

cc:
agarden@lambeth.gov.uk
Kingsleyabrams@hotmail.com
CllrSteveBradley@lambethlibdems.org.uk
danderson@lambeth.gov.uk
Carers.Advice@ageuklambeth.org.uk


----------



## ddraig (May 23, 2013)

hope that at least one of them wakes up and does their job of representing you


----------



## Badgers (May 23, 2013)

> Dear Badgers
> 
> Re: Stage 1 Housing benefit complain under reference ******** / ********
> 
> ...


 
So the 13th of June for a response


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 23, 2013)

Badgers said:


> So the 13th of June for a response


 
Jesus dogbumming Christ on a shit-coated pogo-stick!!!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 23, 2013)

Badgers said:


> So the 13th of June for a response


http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_a...ars/rent_arrears_due_to_housing_benefit_claim
scroll down to payment after 14 days.


----------



## Badgers (May 23, 2013)

Had another email from the department apologising. The department manager called me apologising who is 'taking the claim over' and will get back to me ASAP. 

Also an email from Adrian Garden who is most unhappy and wants to be updated with progress.


----------



## Badgers (May 23, 2013)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_a...ars/rent_arrears_due_to_housing_benefit_claim
> scroll down to payment after 14 days.



I will forward this on to them tomorrow morning


----------



## kittyP (May 23, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_a...ars/rent_arrears_due_to_housing_benefit_claim
> scroll down to payment after 14 days.


 
Cheers for the help. All is greatly appreciated.
I do think we did get the HB from when we fist applied correctly, this is just backdating inline with the ESA backdate. We could not start applying when my pay stopped back in October as my employer had not provided me with the appropriate forms. 
Tbh, we never really expected to get it back dated but it is just the utterly shoddy way in which it has been dealt with and out right lying that needs to be dealt with.,


----------



## Ms Ordinary (May 23, 2013)

Badgers said:


> So I asked to be forwarded to the complaints department. She said there is no complaints department and all I can do is write (another fucking.....) letter to the standard address  I did tell her that I have taken advice but she just said there is nothing she can do. So I am getting a call back from a manager, hopefully today but it may be tomorrow.


 
There is a body called Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) who may at some point be the people to contact with a complaint.

All I know about them is that I had to survey their offices once, the people answering the phones seemed like nice patient people so I'm guessing that even if you've contacted them at the wrong point in the process, they might helpfully point you in the right direction.


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## Badgers (May 23, 2013)

Dp


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## wemakeyousoundb (May 23, 2013)

Badgers said:


> So the 13th of June for a response


don't hold your breath :/


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## wemakeyousoundb (May 23, 2013)

Ms Ordinary said:


> There is a body called Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) who may at some point be the people to contact with a complaint.
> 
> All I know about them is that I had to survey their offices once, the people answering the phones seemed like nice patient people so I'm guessing that even if you've contacted them at the wrong point in the process, they might helpfully point you in the right direction.


I think it goes to the ombudsman automatically after you've exhausted their 3 stage complaint process without a satisfactory outcome.


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## Badgers (Jun 3, 2013)

So........

Last call and email (23/05) prompted a call back from a manager at Lambeth Revenues and Benefits. He promised to escalate this and I would be updated in a few working days by phone or email. Surprisingly no communication of any sort.

Spoke to another (pleasant and polite) chap who told me '_claims can take up to 8 weeks_' again  but could give me nothing more more. He put me on hold for a while to speak to the manager again. The manager said he will escalate the claim (again) 

Pickman's model I asked about the request made (no reply here either) for an interim payment to be made but he said this does not apply in claim backdate requests.



Also on the 23/05 we got a standard email from a Business Support Officer at Lambeth Revenues, Benefit & Customer Services logging a '_Stage 1 Housing benefit complain_' (I think they mean _complain*t*_) but nothing heard since.

Sent another email to the people before + advice@lgo.org.uk and corporate@shelter.org.uk


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## Pickman's model (Jun 3, 2013)

Badgers said:


> So........
> 
> Last call and email (23/05) prompted a call back from a manager at Lambeth Revenues and Benefits. He promised to escalate this and I would be updated in a few working days by phone or email. Surprisingly no communication of any sort.
> 
> ...


how many times have they 'escalated' this now?


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## Badgers (Jun 3, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> how many times have they 'escalated' this now?


 

Not enough obviously 
I forwarded the email to Kate Hoey too 

Got an auto-reply from the woman 'dealing with' our complaint saying she is on holiday from the 11-23th June (is it not the 03rd today?) so can't answer any emails 

So I called the number 020 7926 1000 (for Olive Morris House) but was diverted to Trading Standards


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## kittyP (Jun 3, 2013)

It's a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a sham


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## Pickman's model (Jun 3, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Not enough obviously
> I forwarded the email to Kate Hoey too
> 
> Got an auto-reply from the woman 'dealing with' our complaint saying she is on holiday from the 11-23th June (is it not the 03rd today?) so can't answer any emails
> ...


Ok. The woman supposed to be there, did she leave the name of someone to contact? Chuck in another complaint anyway, on the basis you expect someone to be there when they're supposed to be there. And put in an foi request asking for information about their escalation procedures, and another email to your cllrs saying you've been told your case has been escalated x times, this clearly isn't getting anywhere and you're starting to wonder whether the hb lot operate some clandestine points system as they cannot be wholly incompetent. Could they use their good offices to assist a speedy resolution to this dreary case?


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## Badgers (Jun 7, 2013)

We may have finally reached a positive resolution to this farce. 

Thanks LOADS for all the help guys X


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## kittyP (Jun 7, 2013)

Yes thank you guys x


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## 8115 (Jun 7, 2013)

That's great.


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## astral (Jun 7, 2013)

This is genuinely brilliant news.  I am so pleased that you got a positive outcome.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 7, 2013)

Glad to hear it.  How long has this bollocks been going on now?


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## kittyP (Jun 7, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> Glad to hear it.  How long has this bollocks been going on now?



Since January I think 

I think they realised how much they had fucked up and said "just fucking give it too them" 

It's all gone (a little left over) on rent and paying back personal loans from friends but I feel lighter knowing that we have been able to do that.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jun 7, 2013)




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## ddraig (Jun 7, 2013)

relief! 

never mind it is what you are bloody due and owed and it should never be this bloody hard!


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 7, 2013)

glad it worked for you, gives me a bit of hope for me.


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## kittyP (Jun 7, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:
			
		

> glad it worked for you, gives me a bit of hope for me.



Are you having similar issues?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Since January I think
> 
> I think they realised how much they had fucked up and said "just fucking give it too them"
> 
> It's all gone (a little left over) on rent and paying back personal loans from friends but I feel lighter knowing that we have been able to do that.


 
Always a huge relief paying back loans, even if it does leave you skint.  At least your friends will know you're not going to knock them


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## kittyP (Jun 7, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> Always a huge relief paying back loans, even if it does leave you skint.  At least your friends will know you're not going to knock them



Precisely.


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## equationgirl (Jun 8, 2013)

Well done kittyP and Badgers


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## sorearm (Jun 8, 2013)

good for you kittyP! Nicely done Badgers


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## Frances Lengel (Jun 11, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Since January I think
> 
> I think they realised how much they had fucked up and said "just fucking give it too them"
> 
> It's all gone (a little left over) on rent and paying back personal loans from friends but I feel lighter knowing that we have been able to do that.


 
Aw nice one - My bollox was going on since last november. All sorted within the last fortnight though 

You're right though, it's like a weight off you isn't it?


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 24, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Are you having similar issues?


I've had an appeal running for 1 & 3/4 year now with Lambeth HB
and they keep making mistakes and confusing the appeal and my current claim  it's really quite incredible the incompetence level they manage to achieve collectively because every time I go there they are all individually nice and have often gone out of their way to try and help me.
I will not give up until it has gone all the way.
And the other bastards have taken legal aid for housing away now. pricks.


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## pogo 10 (Jul 5, 2013)

Badgers said:


> I am in the process of signing on today. Have made a claim in the last 6 months (unsuccessful due to part time work ) so should be easy enough.
> 
> Regarding HB I am a little wary as we have a slightly dodgy landlord who probably wants to stay under the radar  and I suppose he would find out.





cesare said:


> Your employer stitched you up!


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## Badgers (Oct 3, 2013)

Is this correct? 

UK JSA is 18% of avg wage. 

Germany 45%
France 47% 
Sweden 78%


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Is this correct?
> 
> UK JSA is 18% of avg wage.
> 
> ...



Yes, that's substantially correct.


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## equationgirl (Oct 3, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Is this correct?
> 
> UK JSA is 18% of avg wage.
> 
> ...


I found this table of unemployment benefits as a % of the average wage:
 

http://www.oecd.org/els/benefitsandwagesstatistics.htm


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## Greebo (Oct 3, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> I found this table of unemployment benefits as a % of the average wage<snip>


Thanks for that.  

Any way you look at it, the benefits paid to people of working age in the UK but not in paid work, are nowhere near as generous as some demagogues would have us believe.


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## equationgirl (Oct 3, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> Any way you look at it, the benefits paid to people of working age in the UK but not in paid work, are nowhere near as generous as some demagogues would have us believe.


Generous sure isn't the word I'd use to describe them - paltry, insufficient and pathetic on the other hand...


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## equationgirl (Oct 3, 2013)

Point to note, these are very much average figures - the Netherlands for example paid at 70% of the last wage received (my brother was on it for some months) so in some cases it may be higher than the figures shown.


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## kittyP (Oct 3, 2013)

Got a letter from the DWP today saying I have been put in the support group for ESA. 
I haven't had an ATOS assessment yet... 
Did they're just make the decision based on my ESA50 form (sent off back in March) ? 
Will I have to have an assessment still? 
Bit confused tbh.


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## wtfftw (Oct 3, 2013)

You're in the support group! 

If they say you're in then you're in. Awesome! Congratulations! 
Medicals aren't always demanded (don't look for logic in the process).


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## kittyP (Oct 3, 2013)

wtfftw said:


> You're in the support group!
> 
> If they say you're in then you're in. Awesome! Congratulations!
> Medicals aren't always demanded (don't look for logic in the process).



This is what I was hopeing had happened and cheers, I am pretty fucking astounded but weary of relaxing about it if iykwim?


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## wtfftw (Oct 3, 2013)

Yeah totally. 

I'm going to sleep now from your good news. Hope you can relax about it soon.


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## Greebo (Oct 3, 2013)

kittyP said:


> This is what I was hopeing had happened and cheers, I am pretty fucking astounded but weary of relaxing about it if iykwim?


I see what you mean, but once the first lot of money's gone in, celebrate it, in any way that you and Badgers choose to.


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## kittyP (Oct 3, 2013)

wtfftw said:


> Yeah totally.
> 
> I'm going to sleep now from your good news. Hope you can relax about it soon.



Cheers honey. 
Sweet dreams x


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## kittyP (Oct 3, 2013)

Greebo said:


> I see what you mean, but once the first lot of money's gone in, celebrate it, in any way that you and Badgers choose to.



Oh I was already getting the money but thank you. 
Infact this is coinciding with the time the ESA is supposed to be reduced to some pittance like a few quid a week because I have been in receipt of it for a year


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## Greebo (Oct 3, 2013)

kittyP said:


> <snip>this is coinciding with the time the ESA is supposed to be reduced to some pittance like a few quid a week because I have been in receipt of it for a year


FFS!  

OTOH at least you won't be hassled into looking for work instead of concentrating on becoming well.


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## equationgirl (Oct 3, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Got a letter from the DWP today saying I have been put in the support group for ESA.
> I haven't had an ATOS assessment yet...
> Did they're just make the decision based on my ESA50 form (sent off back in March) ?
> Will I have to have an assessment still?
> Bit confused tbh.


You've been assessed on the basis of the information you supplied on the form and any supporting information you supplied with it, if any.

No work capability assessment required. This is good news


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## kittyP (Oct 3, 2013)

Greebo said:


> FFS!
> 
> OTOH at least you won't be hassled into looking for work instead of concentrating on becoming well.



TBH, Badgers has just started a 6 month contract somewhere so it would have pretty much stopped anyway but I am wondering, as it is my benefit for incapacity to work, what I am still entitled to.
Probably nothing. 
I don't know if I have it in me to try and claim disability (or whatever it is called now) as well.


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## kittyP (Oct 3, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> You've been assessed on the basis of the information you supplied on the form and any supporting information you supplied with it, if any.
> 
> No work capability assessment required. This is good news



I can't quite believe it tbh. 
I have read other people saying that as soon as a decision was made, they got another form through the post straight after and the whole process started again


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## Puddy_Tat (Oct 3, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Got a letter from the DWP today saying I have been put in the support group for ESA.
> I haven't had an ATOS assessment yet...
> Did they're just make the decision based on my ESA50 form (sent off back in March) ?
> Will I have to have an assessment still?
> Bit confused tbh.



good news - sounds like you don't have to have an assessment just quite yet - does it say how long the entitlement's for before it's reviewed?

or do they not give a date these days and just do it whenever they feel like?



kittyP said:


> Oh I was already getting the money but thank you.
> Infact this is coinciding with the time the ESA is supposed to be reduced to some pittance like a few quid a week because I have been in receipt of it for a year



umm - i am a bit fuzzy on ESA but adviceguide (by CAB) says



> If you get the work-related activity component, you can only get contributory ESA for up to 365 days.* If you get the support component, your contributory ESA is not time limited*





kittyP said:


> I don't know if I have it in me to try and claim disability (or whatever it is called now) as well.



personal independence payment?  I am even fuzzier about that, but more here.  if it's like DLA, then some flavours of it are passports to other things, e.g. concessionary bus pass on grounds of disability.


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## Frances Lengel (Oct 3, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I can't quite believe it tbh.
> I have read other people saying that as soon as a decision was made, they got another form through the post straight after and the whole process started again



You've read allsorts -


kittyP said:


> I can't quite believe it tbh.
> I have read other people saying that as soon as a decision was made, they got another form through the post straight after and the whole process started again


 Nice one - Nah you're cool til the date on your letter. Fuckin great, mate.


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## kittyP (Oct 3, 2013)

There is no date of expiry for review on the letter so I guess they will as and when they see fit 

Cheers guys though


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## Badgers (Oct 4, 2013)

https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit/further-information



> Some benefits stop if you go back to work, work more hours or earn more money.
> 
> If this happens, you could get an extra 4 weeks of Housing Benefit to help you pay your rent. This is called Extended Payment of Housing Benefit. If you’re eligible your local council will contact you. You must have received certain benefits continuously for at least 26 weeks right up to the time when you went back work.
> 
> Once your extended payment ends, you might get ‘in-work Housing Benefit’.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 4, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Got a letter from the DWP today saying I have been put in the support group for ESA.
> I haven't had an ATOS assessment yet...
> Did they're just make the decision based on my ESA50 form (sent off back in March) ?
> Will I have to have an assessment still?
> Bit confused tbh.



No need for an assessment. The decision-maker assessed you on your ESA50, and put you straight in the support group.

Congratulations!


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## yardbird (Oct 4, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Got a letter from the DWP today saying I have been put in the support group for ESA.
> I haven't had an ATOS assessment yet...
> Did they're just make the decision based on my ESA50 form (sent off back in March) ?
> Will I have to have an assessment still?
> Bit confused tbh.


I'm so pleased to read this and what VP says - you have been assessed, but by your ESA50 alone and they now won't bother you again for at least 3 years - same happened to me.
So congratulations!!


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## Badgers (Oct 4, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> No need for an assessment. The decision-maker assessed you on your ESA50, and put you straight in the support group.
> 
> Congratulations!



Pretty big (good) thing for kittyP or indeed anyone signed off with MH issues that


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## Onket (Oct 4, 2013)

Massive congratulation kittyP. x


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 4, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Pretty big (good) thing for kittyP or indeed anyone signed off with MH issues that



And very likely down to you and kitty taking time and effort in filling the form in, and making every answer as detailed as possible.


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## tufty79 (Oct 4, 2013)

and excellent excellent news kitty!


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## Onket (Oct 4, 2013)

kittyP said:


> TBH, Badgers has just started a 6 month contract somewhere


 
Also great news. Massive congratulations Badgers.


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## kittyP (Oct 4, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> And very likely down to you and kitty taking time and effort in filling the form in, and making every answer as detailed as possible.



Which we couldn't have done without your help  x x


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## kittyP (Oct 4, 2013)

yardbird said:


> I'm so pleased to read this and what VP says - you have been assessed, but by your ESA50 alone and they now won't bother you again for at least 3 years - same happened to me.
> So congratulations!!



Three years


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## 8115 (Oct 4, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Three years


Don't take this as gospel, I've heard of reassessments sooner, sorry.  I think the unpredictability is one of the worst things.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 4, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Which we couldn't have done without your help  x x




People on here just passed on what they knew from experience. You and badgers did the hard stuff, 'cos I know how totally emotionally-ravaging filling out one of those pieces of shite can be!


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## kittyP (Oct 4, 2013)

8115 said:


> Don't take this as gospel, I've heard of reassessments sooner, sorry.  I think the unpredictability is one of the worst things.



Yeah, I am still expecting a new form to drop through the door any day.


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## 8115 (Oct 4, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Yeah, I am still expecting a new form to drop through the door any day.




Anyway, congratulations on today's news.  Hope everything is going ok.


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## scifisam (Oct 4, 2013)

kittyP said:


> TBH, Badgers has just started a 6 month contract somewhere so it would have pretty much stopped anyway but I am wondering, as it is my benefit for incapacity to work, what I am still entitled to.
> Probably nothing.
> I don't know if I have it in me to try and claim disability (or whatever it is called now) as well.



It is worth applying for PIP. It'll be easier for you having done similar for your ESA. Just remember to get the form by asking for it over the phone, because the claim then starts from the date of the phone call, and send it in in paper format because for some reason that gets a better response.

Nice one on the ESA.


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## kittyP (Oct 4, 2013)

scifisam said:
			
		

> It is worth applying for PIP. It'll be easier for you having done similar for your ESA. Just remember to get the form by asking for it over the phone, because the claim then starts from the date of the phone call, and send it in in paper format because for some reason that gets a better response.
> 
> Nice one on the ESA.



I'll have a look. Thanks


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## geminisnake (Oct 4, 2013)

Hope this is the start of better things for both of you Kitty  x


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## kittyP (Oct 4, 2013)

geminisnake said:


> Hope this is the start of better things for both of you Kitty  x



Cheers. We just need to get to his first payday unscathed


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## Badgers (Oct 4, 2013)

geminisnake said:
			
		

> Hope this is the start of better things for both of you Kitty  x



No. It will all be awful now.


----------

