# Dragon Age 2



## Vintage Paw (Dec 1, 2010)

Premature, but it's coming in March and I'm already excited so I'm starting a thread and you can bugger off if you don't like it so there.

http://dragonage.bioware.com/



BEARDS!!!

I have already pre-ordered the special edition (which is the same price as the normal edition if you pre-order before January). 

!!!!


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 1, 2010)

I long for the day when actual games look like them there Blur trailers


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 1, 2010)

(regular readers may already know that I'm mainly into the gaming for the fit blokes, so apologies in advance for the unadulterated perving)


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## fen_boy (Dec 2, 2010)

The first one was poo. Hope this is better.


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 2, 2010)

Aw, I loved the first one. Admittedly solely for the story, the gameplay was dreadful on a console. They built it for PC, which had a different system, with a traditional isometric strategic view. On the console they couldn't do that, so it was a dodgy, slipshod port of sorts. It also didn't have as much obsessive replay value as my other Bioware love, Mass Effect. Mainly because the combat just wasn't fun.

They've apparently focused on that a lot in this one. The PC and console versions have been developed side-by-side, and with consoles in mind rather than PC. The PC version will still get some sort of zoomy tactical camera, but not like the old one. Combat is said to be far snappier and impressive, more responsive, and they've overhauled the whole stat/talent branch system, as well as renovated the party relationship system.

I think they've taken lessons from Mass Effect, in making it a framed narrative, with more cinematic aspects, a voiced protagonist, and so on. They've focused more on making it look nice on consoles too - DAO looked frankly dreadful on them.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 2, 2010)

aww  i love the old zoomy tatical camera

it basically meant i can area affect spell  from a room away


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## stupid dogbot (Dec 2, 2010)

I had really high hopes of the first one, considering it's _origins_ and their previous...

But in the long run, it was a bit disappointing. Felt like there was usually only one real obvious choice in most places, and the fighting seemed rather hack and slashy for an RPG. Even on the higher levels. It's an indication of how much fun I had that I didn't finish the (rather protracted) storyline, but DID succeed in having my female lead seduce Illyana. Although, god knows why, she was really irritating and appeared to have two sets of collarbones.


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## Epona (Dec 2, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I think they've taken lessons from Mass Effect, in making it a framed narrative, with more cinematic aspects, a voiced protagonist, and so on.


 
That sums up why I'm finding it difficult to get excited about this - if I want a film I'll go to the cinema.  I loved Origins but I unless I'm particularly bored come release day I'll probably wait to see what the reviews say before getting this, I'm more of a traditional PC RPG fan and the points above fill me with dread.


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 12, 2011)

Less than a month to go and I'm about as excited as it's possible to be.

There has been tons of information coming out recently, with a live demo chat that went out with lead gameplay designer Mike Laidlaw streaming last night (which is here).

A demo will be available from 22nd Feb, across all platforms, and there will be in-game bonuses for those who complete the demo before playing the main game (I believe unlockable weapons and the like).

All potential companions have been announced now (to our knowledge):

-- Varric the rogue dwarf, who also acts as narrator for the story
-- Fenris the angry warrior elf
-- Isabela the feisty rogue pirate, who taught you duelling in DA:O (and may have taught you other things, if you were lucky)
-- Avaline the serious warrior defender
-- Merrill the pariah blood mage Dalish elf who was a temp companion in the Dalish elf origin story in DA:O
-- Anders the snarky mage from DAO: Awakenings, who is now bonded with a spirit

-- Sebastian the rogue exiled prince (DLC, comes with some versions of the game if bought new)


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 12, 2011)

i preordered it a while back....  buuuut... i'll feel wierd playing it before finishing the first one


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 12, 2011)

How come you haven't finished Origins? I recently got it for Mac (already played it to death on xbox) so I could mod the hell out of it. King Cailan's necroboner during the Return to Ostagar DLC is particularly memorable.

Anyway, while you can import your save from DAO into DA2, it's not the same character, and not directly related to your previous game in the way Mass Effect would be, so I don't think it'll matter that much if you haven't finished Origins.


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## Psychonaut (Feb 12, 2011)

the writing, acting etc were brilliant on DA:O, incredibly immersive but with a few exceptions the gameplay was just too easy. I want to be forced to replay the same bit multiple times, thinking up new strategies or simply being quicker. Do most people not want that? is it a conscious descision by the developers to actively adandon traditional gaming values and instead produce an interactive film that flows with minimal interuption?  People who did want a challenge were having to devise new rules like never using magic.

A selling point of bioware RPGs is the replayability, ideally id like to ramp up the difficulty a few notches then be rewarded by the new cutscenes & dialogue. Instead its a grind through 30hours of [group select - fire, repeat] tedium that doesnt require any thought. 

So im not sure if the console-ization is going to be a good thing. but ill definately play it anyway (once) for the story.


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 12, 2011)

For those who like it tough, apparently Nightmare difficulty this time truly is nightmare difficulty, however this time you can only damage your own party while playing on nightmare, not on any of the others.

You're asking the wrong person though; I generally play for story first, difficult or challenging gameplay second. You're right, one selling point of BW games is replayability, (and I think DA2 will be no exception, sounds like there's oodles of replayability built in), but the other one is storytelling. In my experience, actual gameplay is something they struggle with a little bit more than the first two. That being said, from what I've seen, DA2 looks like the combat will be excellent (to my tastes, at least).


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 12, 2011)

And on the 'consolization' thing: now it's gone out to various mags and reviewers, word on the street is that there's really no need to get all dramatic and bitch that PC players are being shafted in favour of the evil console owners ... and that the strategy and PC feel to the game has been retained.

Console owners aren't the devil.


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## Psychonaut (Feb 13, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> For those who like it tough, apparently Nightmare difficulty this time truly is nightmare difficulty, however this time you can only damage your own party while playing on nightmare, not on any of the others.



sounds encouraging 



> In my experience, actual gameplay is something they struggle with a little bit more than the first two.



its understandable, the structure of this type of game is to offer a range of missions you can do in any order, but therefore they all have to be roughly the same level of difficulty. So the quests you leave till last will be relatively easy having been greedily acquiring uprades etc. Perhaps thats unfair as in DA:O you could back out at any time and return to that bit later.  I didnt play Oblivion but apparently that had some sort of controversial level-scaling system, maybe that was an attempt to address the issue?


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 13, 2011)

Enemies still level relative to you, as you say because you can generally do missions in any order. The live demo video I linked up there ^^ shows a couple of fights on 'normal' difficulty on the PC, the first couple being quite minor skirmishes, the final one being a slightly tougher one. It wasn't big bad boss territory, but more minor level boss. Still took him a decent amount of time to get through the fight, it didn't to me at least seem like it was over too quickly. I imagine on Nightmare it would take a considerable amount of time.

They have said that if you are playing on Nightmare, you are going to have to be a master of all your companions, be a master of tactics and strategy, and you will die, a lot. Of course, there are always people who just seem to breeze through any difficulty level ... so we shall have to wait and see.

PC Gamer have given it 94%. Whether you rate PC Gamer or not ... well. http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6006344


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 13, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> How come you haven't finished Origins?


 
because it's not a pick up and play game... i feel i'd have to put down at least 4 hours into a gaming session to get the most out of it...  it feels like your actually in a story  and not one you can just flick through a few pages. each time i sit down i want to go through a story arc and that going to be a few hours

when i got into it  i basically just emptied 4 days straight into playing it  but  i don't have the time at the mo   and if i do have time i'll just bash out an hour  on LOTRO or summin... it's  the junk food of rpging


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 14, 2011)

For a Valentine's Day treat, BioWare have announced who you can get your dirty little mitts on for some special 'alone' time, if that should be your kind of thing.

Isabela - the bisexual rogue pirate with big boobs, who doesn't wear very much.
Merrill - the virginal girl-next-door blood mage Dalish elf.
Fenris - the brooding escaped Tevinter slave elf who can rip out people's hearts and brains, and does.
Anders - the snarky mage who has been possessed by the spirit 'Justice' and, well, that isn't working out so well for him.

There will also be the customary BioWare brothel.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 15, 2011)

as much as it's nice to see games include errr additional charactor development  this does seems to be almost a running gag of bioware rpgs

it's like 90% rpg 10% dating sim

and unfortunatly it doesn't even have a decent pay off ...  i'll stick to my japanese collection of dating sims


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 15, 2011)

I think it's more traditionally called 'storytelling'.


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 15, 2011)

On the difficulty level: according to a podcast, apparently BioWare weren't actually certain it was possible to complete the game in hardcore mode until one of their people managed it last week. On the flip side, whereas archery was broken to the point of being utterly useless in DAO, in DA2 it is apparently overpowered. Useful to know I guess, in case hardcore/nightmare are proving to be a tad too challenging. 

You have to be a rogue to use archery this time around ... no archer warriors. Also no dual-wielding warriors; they are sword&board or 2-handed only. But if you are an archer rogue and an enemy gets too close, instead of still firing like a demented weirdo, this time you take out a knife and stab them in the face  And mages can stab people with their staffs.


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 23, 2011)

*Demo Impressions*

The demo is out now. Had a play through with each of the three classes yesterday. Well, they certainly have made combat more interesting. It's very, very tempting to simply button-mash, but that said you can still pause and deliver commands to your whole team on a 'turn-by-turn' or 'hit-by-hit' basis if you want, in exactly the same way as in DA:O.

Demo difficulty is set to normal, there's no access to the character creator or inventory, and some of the skills trees are locked, but what is there gives you a pretty good idea of how it will work in the game proper.

The demo starts with the prologue, sets up the framed narrative style of storytelling, and then once you finish the prologue you skip forward to do a very small and quick mission of sorts that occurs when you are around level 6 (so you have a few more skills opened up for you automatically at that point).

I started with dual-wielding rogue, and boy if it's not fun. You pounce around the battlefield, jumping towards enemies rather than slowly and painfully sauntering up to them as in DAO. One of your earliest skills is 'backstab', which has you suddenly materialise behind the enemy and inflict a critical hit. It's visually impressive, and that's only one of your basic level attacks. Out of that, mage, archer and 2H warrior (haven't tried S&B yet), I definitely had the most fun playing dual-wielding rogue, so that will be my first when the game arrives on 11th.

One thing about Origins was how overpowered mages could be. Instead of making mages less effective, they've tried to bring the other classes up to their level, and make them just as impressive and fun to play. And from what I've seen so far they've achieved that. 2H warriors have some real power behind them, as you would expect. What surprised me was how much of an overhaul archery has had. Just something as simple as giving you feedback through the controller makes it feel like each arrow packs a punch. The archery skills are fun this time, and are actually useful. And yes, you do indeed stab people in the face if they get too close to you when you're an archer. It makes a very satisfying slashy sound. 

There seem to be a lot more AoE skills that aren't really AoE skills (for all classes that I can tell), that have a smaller footprint than normal ones, that catch nearby enemies in the same attack ... they are fun. I only had the chance to utry a few mage skills, and always went for healing as one of them (I got my ass handed to me once or twice on my first playthrough, I guess because I was trying to get used to the combat speed, but it got easier on subsequent goes). A nice feature is that you can upgrade skills and talents if you want, rather than trying to just get lots of different new ones. Upgrading adds to their efficacy, strength, speed and/or cool down times, but of course you sacrifice having a multitude of different skills at your disposal if you solely go down the upgrade route. Of course, you can mix and match as you see fit. It's easier to see which skills are active, passive and sustained this time around, and the new look skills trees are easy to understand, if slightly awkward to navigate on the console (you sometimes skip past the one you want).

I really like having a voiced protagonist, although f!Hawke's accent is perhaps a little too posh for my tastes (m!Hawke's seems just about right). Default f!Hawke is possibly one of the most beautiful women I've seen in a game; default m!Hawke not so much. I had such high hopes for the beard, but alas it just looks silly. The introduction of the dialogue wheel works, I think, but then I always preferred Mass Effect's to the standard list of branching dialogues in DAO. That said, the way they've implemented it in DA2 is better than ME, and there are 'intent icons' displayed in the centre of the wheel so you don't accidentally pick an option that makes you sound like a cunt when you thought you were being nice. While I preferred ME dialogue to DAO, it's easy to see the flaws in it when you think about how you are forced to pick top right or bottom right options and never middle right, in order to get bonuses for paragon or renegade actions. DA2 avoids that metagaming aspect, as the only real thing that alters as a result of which options you pick is your tone of voice in non-player directed conversations later. There will be important decisions to make, but they won't be tied to the idea of 'top=good' 'bottom=bad'; I believe they've tried to make the game far more morally ambiguous than anything else.

Rather than giving your companions lots of gifts and agreeing with them all the time to get their approval rating up (as in DAO), this time there is a friendship/rivalry system, and you will get different 'perks' depending on what path you end up on with each of your companions (this was something I really liked about Alpha Protocol). It will also affect how any romance you partake of plays out. Although you can gain friendship and rivalry points throughout the game, it will revolve mostly around the decisions you make regarding companions' personal quests and probably more central mission decisions.

I foresee lots of bitching about the graphics. It's not astounding (360), they certainly haven't achieved the jump that ME1->ME2 made, but personally I love the new art direction, and prefer it massively over DAO. There is DX11 support for those with that capability. I haven't seen any screenshots or demos of that gameplay though.

All in all, I'm super excited to play the proper game now, and can see many happy replays ahead of me. I completely understand how some people may play the demo and still be unsure of the new combat system. All I would say is that, yes, they have sped things up and allowed players to get through by simply button-mashing, but that's only if they want. For those who like the slow, stop-and-pause style of doling out orders and micromanaging the whole party, none of that has been taken away. It's all still there, and accessible in exactly the same way as before, all they've done is added something extra so all types of players can enjoy it, rather than just those who enjoy the slower, strategic type of gameplay.


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## fen_boy (Feb 23, 2011)

Played a bit of the Xbox demo last night. Not my cup of tea at all. I'm starting to think I just don't get on with the standard medieval plus magic type fantasy setting (but I loved Oblivion). I'm playing through ME2 for the first time at the moment and I much prefer that.

Was disappointed with the combat. It did feel a bit button mashy, with a few options to pause and cast spells or whatever, but it wasn't done anything like as well as something like Final Fantasy XII or Tales of Symphonia on the GameCube (slightly weird examples, but it sort of felt a bit like it was trying to do something similar) hopefully the combat has more depth when you get into it.

DAO1 looked like shite, but I thought DAO2 looked OK graphically.


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 23, 2011)

Incidentally, there will be auto-attack in the full game, but it was disabled in the demo. So just as in DAO, the player can leave Hawke to auto-base-attack to their heart's content if they wish to avoid button-mashing. I expect it was left out of the demo (as many things were ... this was actually based on an older build, and a few things have been either changed or rectified by the time it went gold) so as to not confuse people new to the franchise.

Like I say, I completely understand why some may not like the combat. But having seen endless gameplay vids of the devs playing, and having done it myself, all the tactical and strategic depth from DAO is still there when you pause the game like before ... you just have faster, flashier animations in the meantime. Its new speed _tempts_ you to button-mash ... but ultimately it's all down to you whether you choose to do that or pause-command; switch party member, pause-command, and so on. 

I haven't played FFXII or ToS so I can't comment on that. I couldn't get into Oblivion at all, ugh. I am a MASSIVE fan of Mass Effect though, and hugely prefer both Mass Effects in terms of gameplay over DAO, and I suspect I'll still prefer them over DA2. That said, I don't play BioWare games solely for the opportunity to kill things. I love BW for their storytelling. Once you could trawl through the freaking Deep Roads in DAO, what happened at the Landsmeet was excellent storytelling, way better than anything in ME2 (although I still prize ME1 as the winner of the 'it has everything' award). In terms of DA2's story, we don't really know that much about it other than it is about Hawke's rise to power as Champion of Kirkwall. One review said the story isn't the best story ever told in a game, but it is perhaps the best storytelling ever seen in a game.


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## Termite Man (Feb 26, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> Incidentally, there will be auto-attack in the full game, but it was disabled in the demo. So just as in DAO, the player can leave Hawke to auto-base-attack to their heart's content if they wish to avoid button-mashing. I expect it was left out of the demo (as many things were ... this was actually based on an older build, and a few things have been either changed or rectified by the time it went gold) so as to not confuse people new to the franchise.
> .



I'm glad you have said that , I played the demo and that was something that really bugged me, just button mashing for basic attacks was a bit shit.


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## Cid (Feb 26, 2011)

Personally think the story in DAO was dull and predictable high fantasy trash. Also Bioware continually fails to get away from black and white decision making and characterisation... It's kind of shown up when you play something like _The Witcher_ where you basically have to forget planning out what effect your dialogue choices will have and base it instead on the general relationships you want to cultivate. Witcher characterisation can be crude sometimes (sex cards), but is often far more in-depth; the preacher you encounter at the start springs to mind, proper zealot rather than that chantry shite. Basically all the morality in DAO is laid out before you in the most obvious way. It looks like they may have made attempts to address that this time but we shall see.


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 26, 2011)

Ah, well, on the subject of choices and consequences, reviewers are suggesting DA2 takes it to new levels previously unseen. This pleases me.


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## Psychonaut (Feb 26, 2011)

Cid said:


> ...when you play something like _The Witcher_


 
what else is like the witcher?   i liked it so much i bought the books & watched the polish TV series.


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## Psychonaut (Feb 26, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> On the difficulty level: according to a podcast, apparently BioWare weren't actually certain it was possible to complete the game in hardcore mode until one of their people managed it last week. .



this pleases me.


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## Epona (Mar 5, 2011)

Can anyone confirm the UK release date?  Steam has no date up, and I couldn't find the relevant part of the official site for this info, the only date I can obviously see is 8th March and I imagine that's for US release?

With the way my internet connection is playing up* recently, I really need to preorder and get that Steam download started at least a couple of days before release. 

*Btw this is the problem I'm having finding the info on the official site, it's way too graphics heavy and is taking too long to load and timing out - I'm not just being lazy, honest!  I think I need a new router 

ETA: Not to worry I eventually found the information on the Steam forums:

Preload from 10am on the 8th, goes live at midnight on the 11th (although last time they said midnight they actually meant 2am, so I'll wait and see what actually happens!)


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 5, 2011)

Ah, you found the info. Yeah, 11th. Lucky buggers getting it on Wednesday in the States *shakes fist*

I've been totally ODing on info about it this past week. Can't wait. Looks like it's making some interesting changes in many areas, and in terms of your companions I expect there to be a lot of coverage in the gaming press and elsewhere. Probably.

Roll on Friday.


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## The Groke (Mar 5, 2011)

My preload is all done.

Luvverly.


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## Epona (Mar 6, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ah, you found the info. Yeah, 11th. Lucky buggers getting it on Wednesday in the States *shakes fist*
> 
> I've been totally ODing on info about it this past week. Can't wait. Looks like it's making some interesting changes in many areas, and in terms of your companions I expect there to be a lot of coverage in the gaming press and elsewhere. Probably.
> 
> Roll on Friday.


 
I have concerns about the combat system - slow reactions and arthritis in my finger joints do not tend to sit well with "button mashing" - I'm not about to get into a long diatribe about it, but I hope you understand why I prefer and argue in favour of more traditional turn-based/dice roll combat based on character skill and sometimes wail about the fact that it seems to be being phased out in favour of the "action-RPG" based on player skill, and really wish every developer wasn't moving in that direction - I do hope it's not going to be too difficult (or perhaps even unplayable) for me!


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## Cid (Mar 6, 2011)

Didn't find the PC demo at all button-mashy, the action feels a bit more er... actiony, but I think this is because they've tried to make the combat graphics for each class more involved/exciting (as well as balancing the classes up to the mage). It was easier to get involved in the RT play than in DAO I think, but you can still play what's basically a turn based game if you want (and indeed I expect you will have to on the top difficulty settings).

Given what we know about RSI and possible links to degenerative conditions in gamers it always surprises me that there are still games out there where 'hit x as fast as you can' or 'click mouse really quickly' forms an integral part of the gameplay. Not in this case though I think.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 6, 2011)

Epona - there is auto-attack, just like in DAO. It wasn't enabled in all versions of the demo, but it is there. So you pause as normal to give orders to your team, and then can sit back and let your PC auto-attack in between. Nothing on that front has changed. I completely understand what you mean and why you're concerned, it's a valid concern. Simply put, there is no button-mashing unless you want there to be.


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## Epona (Mar 6, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> Epona - there is auto-attack, just like in DAO. It wasn't enabled in all versions of the demo, but it is there. So you pause as normal to give orders to your team, and then can sit back and let your PC auto-attack in between. Nothing on that front has changed. I completely understand what you mean and why you're concerned, it's a valid concern. Simply put, there is no button-mashing unless you want there to be.


 
 that's eased my concerns, thank you


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 8, 2011)

I've been spoiling myself something rotten. Currently watching a friend in San Francisco livestream her game. XD

I can't wait to play it.

(The lead up has been something of a journey for me, for various reasons ... so forgive me if I wax even more lyrical than usual.)


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## Epona (Mar 8, 2011)

It's downloading at the moment.  I've given up on physical copies of games, too many scratched disks and misplaced product keys, and I've run out of space to keep any more!

I'm avoiding any information about the game at this point, I may crack before I get to play it though!


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 9, 2011)

Knowing all the spoilers that I know, this game is going to rip my still-beating heart out.


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## Epona (Mar 10, 2011)

Oh buggeration, another game where you can import the save details of the previous game, and I think all my DA:O saves were vaporised when my old PC blew up.  I should have paid more attention and spent the last week re-playing it!  Unless they are on the drive that survived which is currently in the other PC, going to have to elbow the OH off it to have a rummage, that's not going to go down well!

I cracked slightly and had a look on the tech support forum, I have a suspicion that rather than playing the game at 00.05 on Friday morning I may be smashing my head against the keyboard and crying - this seems to be par for the course for Bioware games on PC because I remember having to do something funky to my PC to get Awakenings to run - at least it is Bioware though, unlike some developers they do tend to fix these things!



ETA: What I do think is a bit shit though (wrt Bioware forums), is that you can only post on most of the forums once you've registered your game - I have several questions I would like to ask about my setup in advance of registering the game, in the hope of gleaning some wisdom from those already playing it so that I minimise the likelihood of running into any issues, but I can't do that!


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## Garek (Mar 10, 2011)

Unlike Mass Effect previous play through are not as important so I wouldn't worry to much.

Of course this line, "smashing my head against the keyboard and crying", makes me think this might not be an option for you 

Make sure to DL the HD textures people for extra prettyness.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2011)

Yeah, all the threads I want to reply to are in the locked forums *headdesk* There's one question in particular about the friendship/rivalry system and a particular character I want to ask, but can't because I'm not allowed to until I've registered the game.

Gah. 

So, anyway, what class are you going to play first?

I've been flip-flopping between rogue and mage for ages. I ALWAYS play DW rogue first in these games, and it's usually my most-played class overall. But this time, for story and roleplaying reasons, I'm seriously considering rolling a mage first time around.

And then, when I do play a rogue, I'm torn between DW and archery, because archery has been improved so much this time around, it was a dream to play in the demo.

I'm *almost* certain I'll be playing a pro-mage/anti-Chantry Mage (taking Force Mage as my first spec, and then maybe Spirit Healer as second) first time around; then a pro-Chantry/anti-mage rogue (taking Assassin as 1st spec, not sure which as 2nd though) second time around. Then, after that, I'm not sure.

Warrior playthroughs will be way, way down the line.


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## Garek (Mar 10, 2011)

Warrior. 

In the Diablo games the barbarian was always my favourite class which tell you all you need to know about my play style.

Though rouge looks pretty awesome, so long as s/he is not wimpy.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2011)

Do you go back and replay games with different classes though, Garek? After you've played the one you enjoy the most?

Of the three BioWare games I've played, I go back and replay them with different classes to experience different types of combat (and have fun with the skills). Although I will say, I think the Mass Effect series encourages this more than the Dragon Ages, because in the latter you can switch to control your party members directly and experience their classes and talents whenever you want without actually needing the PC to be that class. That said, I'm so much of a roleplayer that class has an impact on my enjoyment and participation in the story, so I still like to see how the game plays out differently with them all.


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## Garek (Mar 10, 2011)

It entirely depends on the game. I tend to avoid ranged, magic and sneaking though, which I realise sounds a rather unsophisticated way to play. 

However I did like the Infiltrator class in Mass Effect and as I say I also like the look of Rouge in Dragon Age 2. 

But my badass female Shepherd Soldier is the save I am most looking forward to uploading in Mass Effect 3. Just my style of play. Also keep thinking back to Diablo. Necromancer and Druid were fun the play as, but my fondest memories are of playing as a Barbarian.


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## Garek (Mar 10, 2011)

Thinking about this some more, I do like how you can switch between party member in Dragonage. Means you can sample everything on the fly rather than having to do multiple playthroughs.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2011)

Yeah, for those who only intend to play once that is a great option.

Me, I squeeze as much out of BW games as possible, so I'll be doing multiple playthroughs, I'm sure


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## Epona (Mar 10, 2011)

Garek said:


> Unlike Mass Effect previous play through are not as important so I wouldn't worry to much.
> 
> Of course this line, "smashing my head against the keyboard and crying", makes me think this might not be an option for you
> 
> Make sure to DL the HD textures people for extra prettyness.


 
I tend to take my gaming quite seriously   I will most certainly download the HD textures (if I can bloody stay connected to the internet for long enough) - I have a dx11 graphics card and it would be daft not to take advantage of that!

VP - I'm almost certainly going to play as a DW rogue, it was by far my favourite class in Origins, and in most RPGs (from Baldur's Gate to present day!) I like to play rogue types - although in games with less strict class definitions or multi-classing I like to throw in some combat type mage skills/spells, but when it's either/or I'd rather be pure rogue than pure mage.  Warriors don't do a lot for me and I don't think I ever got through a game of Origins as a warrior.


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## Garek (Mar 10, 2011)

Epona said:


> I tend to take my gaming quite seriously   I will most certainly download the HD textures (if I can bloody stay connected to the internet for long enough) - I have a dx11 graphics card and it would be daft not to take advantage of that!
> 
> VP - I'm almost certainly going to play as a DW rogue, it was by far my favourite class in Origins, and in most RPGs (from Baldur's Gate to present day!) I like to play rogue types - although in games with less strict class definitions or multi-classing I like to throw in some combat type mage skills/spells, but when it's either/or I'd rather be pure rogue than pure mage.  Warriors don't do a lot for me and I don't think I ever got through a game of Origins as a warrior.



Hehe I understand about taking games seriously  I bought Mass Effect 2 last year. Got about half an hour in, realised how much I loved it and thought "bollocks to this, I ain't playing this without playing Mass Effect 1". So I did. But not the quick way, oh no. I played it doing every single side quest and going to every single bloody planet  Then, after all that and over 50 hours of play, then I was able to feel happy playing Mass Effect 2 

Interesting what you say about playing rouges. I suspect a lot of RPG players have a particular style they have settled into after years of playing a wide variety of games.

This is going to be a good weekend


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## Epona (Mar 10, 2011)

Garek said:


> Hehe I understand about taking games seriously  I bought Mass Effect 2 last year. Got about half an hour in, realised how much I loved it and thought "bollocks to this, I ain't playing this without playing Mass Effect 1". So I did. But not the quick way, oh no. I played it doing every single side quest and going to every single bloody planet  Then, after all that and over 50 hours of play, then I was able to feel happy playing Mass Effect 2


 
This is why I'm a bit pissed off with myself for not realising that I could use save game data from Origins in DA2, because even if it's just going to be referenced in the game rather than having it affect my character directly, I still want it in there.  I'll probably play DA2 once then re-install Origins and Awakening and all the DLC and play it all through again before a second run through of DA2.  

I've remembered that I never took an Origins character through Awakening, because when I imported my favourite character I lost all my DLC gear and found myself doing battle in my undies armed with a rusty butter knife so because I wanted to play it right away rather than wait for a fix I did it as a Warden from Orlais instead.  Then my PC blew up, and something else I wanted to play got released, and I haven't gone back to it yet - I think I missed some of the later DLC also which is unlike me - so there will definitely be some Origins in my near future!


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm glad you enjoyed ME1 too, Garek. I think it's far more useful (and interesting) to have played 1 before 2, than it is to have played DAO before DA2. I managed to convince a friend a month or so ago to play 1 before 2, even though he'd only bought 2. He loved it.

And yeah, most players do have a preferred class/style. Like Epona, I almost exclusively stick to rogues (and in Mass Effect, any combination of biotics), almost never play warriors, and occasionally play mages. But what I know of the story of DA2, and because of the improved animations and fighting style of mages, I'm going for mage first, and I'm actually really looking forward to it. And, again because of story reasons, I'll likely have 2 mages (inc. myself) in my party most of the time.

I expect we'll be utilising the spoiler tag very heavily after tomorrow. Because it will be impossible not to talk about the story ... 

Another (possibly more shallow, possibly momentous, depending on your outlook) thing that I'm incredibly in awe about is that BW have written all the 4 potential love interests in your party as bisexual. Sometimes it's difficult to remember the ME team and the DA team are part of the same company >.<


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## Garek (Mar 10, 2011)

I think I will have to play Origins through. I never completed it  This is in part because of that fucking level when you have to fight of a town full of Zombies which keep re-spawning, and don't stop unless you know you can't leave the square  And a few other niggles.

I loved ME1 though it was very flawed. Lots of old schools elements in it (ridiculous inventory systems, lots of generic levels). I know a lot of people didn't like the 'sleeker' style of ME2, but I can see why it happened after ME1. What I really loved though, what I really loved was that after playing ME1, then 2, was what I felt for the characters. That I actually cared what happened to them. This is what Bioware excels at. I will be playing Origins again simply to hear the bitching between Alistair and the lovely Claudia Black 

Think I going to bow out of this thread for awhile after tomorrow. No DA:2 till I get a new computer. But it has convinced me to pick up DA:O again and play it right through.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2011)

If you don't like 'recycled environments', good luck with DA2 XD (It's full of them. It's one of the main criticisms.)

The party banter in DA2 is utterly excellent, so hopefully you'll enjoy that too


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## Garek (Mar 10, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> If you don't like 'recycled environments', good luck with DA2 XD (It's full of them. It's one of the main criticisms.)
> 
> The party banter in DA2 is utterly excellent, so hopefully you'll enjoy that too


 
If I have to visit the same area again then fine. If however I have to go to go to a completely different area a million miles which looks mysteriously identical, as though the whole world has one achitect with a very limited repertoire and who gets all his crates from some RPG version of Ikea with only 3 items then I get cross.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2011)

I have ZERO self-control. Currently watching a friend (via livestream - she's in San Fran) do the end game. Yeah, TOTALLY spoiled it for myself, but it was worth it.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2011)

Garek said:


> If I have to visit the same area again then fine. If however I have to go to go to a completely different area a million miles which looks mysteriously identical, as though the whole world has one achitect with a very limited repertoire and who gets all his crates from some RPG version of Ikea with only 3 items then I get cross.


 
lol, yeah, the repetitive bunkers were ... remarkably repetitive XD


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## Epona (Mar 10, 2011)

4 hours til it unlocks!

I'm not having any luck with the HD pack, the download was going alright til the telly blew up around teatime and I turned the power off at the socket, forgetting that my PC was also plugged in there and halfway through a 1gig download   The PC is OK, the telly isn't.

I've continued with the download, but might end up with a corrupted file and have to do it again later - I ought to look for a torrent version just in case, that way it won't be affected by the vagaries of my connection and other household appliances deciding to stick their malfunctioning oars in.


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## Jackobi (Mar 10, 2011)

Is anyone playing this on a PC? If so, is it possible to unlock the camera from the character? I have read a lot of reviews stating that the camera can be moved around the battlefield, but cannot work out how to do it or if it is possible.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2011)

No, it can't be unlocked unfortunately, Jackobi.

Epona, I've heard the HD pack has been making some people's games lag and they've uninstalled it anyway, so I wouldn't get too worried about having it installed the first time you play - just in case you're still having problems.

Mine is in a warehouse in Droitwich at the moment. I'm f5-ing like crazy tomorrow, tracking where it is, and stalking the road outside for the courier XD


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## Epona (Mar 10, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> Epona, I've heard the HD pack has been making some people's games lag and they've uninstalled it anyway, so I wouldn't get too worried about having it installed the first time you play - just in case you're still having problems.



Yeah I'd read about that - still I'd like to try it out, all the hype about dx11 tessellation and whatnot it would be nice to play a game that actually uses it.  I'm not even that into eye candy in games, I'm all about the gameplay and story and would happily rush to buy a new game with BG/BG2 or Morrowind level graphics if I could be assured of the same level of fun and depth and replayability - but otoh, dammit I've got the graphics card, and there's nowt wrong with a game looking pretty on top of the other stuff!



Vintage Paw said:


> Mine is in a warehouse in Droitwich at the moment. I'm f5-ing like crazy tomorrow, tracking where it is, and stalking the road outside for the courier XD


 
Blimey, that must be frustrating - this is why I've never pre-ordered a new release for delivery, I have a very low patience threshold and I'd probably be a bit tearful and unable to sleep tonight if I were waiting for it to come to me (I know how fucked up and sad that sounds, but I don't give a shit, this is my main hobby!...)  This is one reason why I'm such a fan of Steam, but even in my pre-Steam days I always went to the shop myself to pick up the game on release day.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2011)

Yeah, I can understand wanting to get the best quality you can. I'm not bothered by graphics that much either, story and gameplay for me too.

I pre-ordered because they were offering a free upgrade to the Signature Edition if you did so before Jan, so I pre-ordered ages ago. It's been sitting there in my outstanding open orders for months mocking me XD

Have fun at midnight when you start playing


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## Epona (Mar 10, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> Have fun at midnight when you start playing


 
Thanks, trust me if I can't get it to work you will be able to read all about it here tomorrow!  I hope your copy turns up good and early


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## Jackobi (Mar 11, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> No, it can't be unlocked unfortunately, Jackobi.


 
That is my biggest gripe so far then, the camera control is irritating sometimes, particularly during battles.


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## Jackobi (Mar 11, 2011)

Garek said:


> I think I will have to play Origins through. I never completed it  This is in part because of that fucking level when you have to fight of a town full of Zombies which keep re-spawning, and don't stop unless you know you can't leave the square


 
I gave up at that level.


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## Epona (Mar 11, 2011)

WHAAAAAAAHHHHH!  Music but with a black screen.  Downloading video drivers.  This is what I should have been doing earlier instead of downloading HD pack.  Priorities screwed.



Jackobi said:


> I gave up at that level.


 
For those playing on PC that particular battle could be a bit buggy - often a zombie would spawn down by the lake and get stuck between buildings due to AI pathfinding, and it could be a right pain to find the culprit.  On one playthrough I am absolutely certain I had no enemies left and the cutscene at the end of the battle just would not trigger, I had to reload from a save before the battle and try again (it worked the second time) which was a pain.


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## Epona (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm a complete fucking moron - having posted a report about having no graphics whatsoever on the official forums, I remembered that my iz3d anaglyph 3d drivers are not compatible with dx11, disabled the drivers and bingo I get visuals   Having a mouse issue with dx11 however (cursor not reacting in the correct place on screen), but that's a known issue.


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## Epona (Mar 11, 2011)

OK I've started a game as a female rogue.  Using dx9 because of the mouse issue in dx11 (which will no doubt be fixed soon, I hope!)

Here is my initial impression, playing on normal difficulty:



Spoiler: first impressions



Combat - Thrown in at the deep end, darkspawn coming at me.  Combat is not nearly as horrific as I feared, thanks VP for putting my mind at rest beforehand!  The pause function is without any lag, and although the action is very fast and furious, it is easy to pause the game to control my character and give commands either to "run away, run away" or to use special combat moves.  If I have any criticism it is that I can dispatch foes in double quick time without seeming to break a sweat, and playing as a rogue I have an option to go stealth mode in combat and run away, my health bar fills up quickly when I do this, may need to set the difficulty higher once I've got to grips with it.  Nice finishing move animation - not normally in favour of such things if they mean you lose control of your character for any length of time, but this one is well executed (if you'll excuse the pun!) and as long as it only happens at the end of boss fights, that's fine by me.

Story - There is some woman with me, I have no fucking idea who she is or why she's with me at this point, hopefully that will become clear later!  But she seems to be quite nice, and because I am aware that there are various romance options regardless of gender I choose the nicey-nicey dialogue options with her, just in case, I don't like to cut off any potential avenues for friendship (or more) this early on in the game!  There is also someone who resembles Servelan out of Blake's 7 who is talking to a dwarf, this seems to be forming the narration for the story.  The reason for this conversation is as yet unclear, but I can't wait to find out, it's all a bit David Lynch right now!

Graphics - I'm playing on dx9 for the time being, without the HD textures, until some dx11 issues are resolved - but even so the graphics are disappointing, especially the terrain which in the first few minutes of the game has just been really bland and flat, Morrowind had better terrain and ground textures than this.  The character animations are OK but nothing to get too excited about.  Tbh this sort of thing is not the main reason I play a game, and it does not make or break a game, but I was hoping for better.  I'll reserve judgement until the dx11 issues are sorted, maybe I'll be completely wowed when I can play with the HD textures.

Gameplay - well you know what - I love my open world games, I love my top down isometric old-stylee strategic combat RPGs, I love all the traditional dice roll shit.  And I'll always love those things best of all.  But this game, despite my misgivings, really is good fun.  It's mostly been combat so far, and that's been fun.  The short conversations I've had so far have been fun.  Looking forward to uncovering more of the story.

No marks out of 10 at this point as I'm such a short way in, but thus far I am enjoying it immensely.


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## Epona (Mar 11, 2011)

OK my second impressions, having got through what I assume to be the prologue!



Spoiler: second look



OK so the woman I tried to hit on earlier turned out to be my sister, foot in mouth situation - flashback to BG/BGII and little innocent squeaky voiced Imogen, who I so badly wanted to corrupt up until the big reveal, then I just felt totally disgusted with myself   And I KNOW that I'm not the only person who felt like that, so no pointing and giggling please!!  A couple of folks have died already and one of the scenes was quite touching, although I've not yet gotten attached to anyone - I'm sure that will come later though.

I take it back about the animations - the combat animations are really quite good (although very fast moving, it's easier to spot the quality though if you happen to pause when there are special effects such as spells being cast or spurts of blood on screen, then swivel the camera about), and the facial animations during dialogue scenes are really quite good - but I've managed to pin down what was bugging me, and that is completely static hair and clothes with some fairly major clipping when the characters move - this sort of thing would not normally bother me, but in a game that places high importance on cinematic scenes to move the narrative along, I feel those clipping issues (Flemeth's hair disappearing into her back when she moved her head particularly bothered me), ought to have been given a little more attention.  The scenery also has improved, but I'd rather not see paths leading off to the sides if I can't actually walk down them!  If I'm following a necessary route from A to B for the sake of story progression, then set it in a canyon, have it surrounded by impassable terrain or something, don't make it look as if I could choose to go right or left when my only option is straight ahead.

In terms of combat, it's been pretty unrelenting so far.  It took me a while to recall that you don't have to move a healing potion from your inventory into a companion's inventory because it's a party inventory system, that resulted in a death/reload situation at one point.  Hopefully now I have reached a town I will get a bit of a break and get to enjoy wandering around for a bit!

Oh and forgot to mention, the subtitles are flawless - easy to read and paced appropriately - so you're neither forced to read so fast that you miss bits, nor waiting for ages for the next line to come up and thus losing the tension and excitement.  The placement is also good, on the black strip at the top of the screen so that graphics or action in the game do not interfere with reading the text, possibly rendering some words illegible by placing a pale background underneath them.  As I rely heavily on subtitles in games, these are a welcome relief from some very shoddy efforts (yes, Alpha Protocol, and Assassins Creed 2, I am looking at you!)  It may seem like a minor thing to get worked up about, but if you have a hearing issue quality of subtitling can mean the difference between complete unplayability and fantastic immersion, and Bioware have (as usual) got it spot on.



ETA, just in case any of that sounds like whining about stuff I don't like - overall it's great fun, I'm having a great time.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 11, 2011)

Epona, I'm so glad you're enjoying it. If you approve of the combat then it must be pretty good 

Yeah, I noticed the clipping really badly in the demo. The hair you mention, and then in a later game act 1 mission that was inc. in the demo, someone's clothing was clipping like hell into their legs. I was hoping it was a demo issue, but it appears not.

My copy is somewhere in my city ... hope it arrives reasonably early ... although I'm splitting my attention between watching my friend still streaming in San Fran, and watching the horrendous news about Japan on the tv.


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## Epona (Mar 11, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> Epona, I'm so glad you're enjoying it. If you approve of the combat then it must be pretty good
> 
> Yeah, I noticed the clipping really badly in the demo. The hair you mention, and then in a later game act 1 mission that was inc. in the demo, someone's clothing was clipping like hell into their legs. I was hoping it was a demo issue, but it appears not.
> 
> My copy is somewhere in my city ... hope it arrives reasonably early ... although I'm splitting my attention between watching my friend still streaming in San Fran, and watching the horrendous news about Japan on the tv.


 
I am enjoying it, combat is good and exciting but totally manageable and that's the thing I was most concerned about so no worries on that front - I pulled an all-nighter (which was planned) but I fully intended to be in bed by now - however I checked the news before heading off and haven't made it to bed yet due to what's going on in Japan, absolutely awful situation.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 11, 2011)

It's dreadful  Puts my excitement for DA2 arriving into stark perspective.

I know many who've been pulling all-nighters. You're stronger people than me, I just can't do it. How far have you got (don't worry about spoiling me in tags, I know everything about it)?

Opinion seems to be well and truly split on the game. It's getting some lackluster reviews, which is a real shame. The forums are full of threads bitching about one thing or another, but at the same time, it's also full of people who were blown away by it (especially the story).

I can't wait to hear your reaction once you've finished it


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 11, 2011)

One thing I would say is take your time. It's very definitely a shorter game than DAO. Some are doing speed runs of 12-16 hours (which I don't believe, tbh). My San Fran friend finished her first run in 30, but she played exclusively on Casual (which is easier than DAO's casual - they say Normal is equiv. to DAO's casual, but hard and nightmare are considerably more difficult, nightmare especially so) (she played on casual so she could keep Hawke in his underwear - yeah, I know.) The first BioWare employee to manage to beat the game on nightmare took over 100 hours. I'd say if you're playing on normal, do all the side quests and don't rush, you'll probably clock up 30-40 hours. Not as long as DAO by any stretch, but actually that's around the right length for me before I start to get frustrated.


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## Garek (Mar 11, 2011)

BioWare's Mike Laidlaw: A defence of Dragon Age II from Eurogamer.


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## Epona (Mar 11, 2011)

Well I've spent today (what little of it was left after I got up  ) pottering about in Kirkwall - It feels very much like Origins now in atmosphere, which makes me very happy.  Apart from a couple of minor grumbles (would like to be able to play dress-up with my companions rather than them having their own outfits, inventory items having very generic names ie "ring" making it more difficult than necessary to see at a glance what it does, that sort of thing!) I think it's an amazing game so far.


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## Cid (Mar 11, 2011)

Run up against the usual Bioware problem, picking up a character with the same spec.

Minor early spoiler:



Spoiler: character



Playing with an elemental/entropy mage, so have a healing gap in the party, Mage I've picked up (Merrill) can't do healing. Perhaps another one will turn up at some point.



Wouldn't mind if they had PC respec.


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## Epona (Mar 11, 2011)

Cid said:


> Wouldn't mind if they had PC respec.


 
I'm pretty sure you can do that with the Black Emporium DLC (not sure if it was just for pre-orders, I got a code for it with my game) - you can buy a potion there that I think will let you reassign all your attribute and talent points.


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## Cid (Mar 11, 2011)

Hmm... I have an 'entitlement key' and a pre-order entitlement key', I will investigate.


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## Cid (Mar 12, 2011)

My impressions after 17 hours are fairly good... The combat has a good pace to it, all the classes are now pretty engaging to play in most formats (although healing is never exactly exciting) but they haven't really improved on the standard faults with Bioware. The dialogue wheel is a long way from the revolution they were claiming, still pretty obvious what each option will do and changing dislike to rivalry is not exactly ground-breaking. It's a bit better than the lines of dialogue in some ways, but it's also more predictable. Which brings me to what I _hate_ about Bioware, planning out your game. Every decision you make wrt dialogue has to be geared around which option is best for whichever relationship you want to develop, what your character actually says is now a little more nuanced, but there's still the feeling that you're trying to score points in you speech choices. Then there are the repetitive environments, I've been in two caves that I could swear are _exactly_ the same (not the whole cave mind you, just bits). OTOH I'm not too fussed about losing custom armour for every character, with Bioware it was always a case of having a set selection of items available throughout the game anyway. 

Overall it's great fun, but I'm not really sure you can call it an RPG, the plot (so far) isn't much more than D&D/Forgotten Realms etc for a new generation and the environments can be a bit dull.


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## Epona (Mar 13, 2011)

Cid said:


> Which brings me to what I _hate_ about Bioware, planning out your game. Every decision you make wrt dialogue has to be geared around which option is best for whichever relationship you want to develop....


 
    I don't think that's the way it is intended to be played mate, just say what fits in with the way you see your character, and if you end up with one of your companions (or potential love interest) hating you because of it then c'est la vie.  Try it different on your next playthrough, it's not a popularity contest, nor is it supposed to be about jumping through hoops and saying things that are out of character and going through the right steps in order to get the guy/gal you want.  It is very much a role-playing game, because you play a certain type of character and sometimes shit happens because of you sticking to that role.  At least in this game none of your companions is going to fuck off because of it.  I've already pissed off Aveline big time, and I find her freckles quite sexy - but that's the way the dice roll, as it were.

ETA: Do you think VP is alright?  I'm worried that either she's been playing solidly without any sleep or meals since Friday morning, or the game wasn't delivered on release day and she went down to the post depot and kicked off and is currently in the slammer  (cos I know I'd go nuts if that happened to me!)


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## Cid (Mar 13, 2011)

I think it's just the fact they have points, each reaction has a little icon next to it and you can see the slidy scale of friendship thing. 

VP: remember that we have at least something like +25 towards you, if you need to enter dialogue with someone we have exclamation marks above our heads.


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## tommers (Mar 13, 2011)

i think VP is probably on about her third playthrough and hasn't slept for 2 days.


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## Garek (Mar 15, 2011)

What do people think of this? http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/14/wit-the-opening-hours-of-dragon-age-ii/#more-53897


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## agricola (Mar 15, 2011)

Bought it yesterday, was impressed and then delighted when Eve Myles appeared.


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## Termite Man (Mar 17, 2011)

I have just started playing Red Dead Redemption which I got for christmas, so far I'm not impressed is it worth keeping on so it gets better or ami better off going out and getting Dragon Age 2 tomorrow


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## Epona (Mar 17, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> I have just started playing Red Dead Redemption which I got for christmas, so far I'm not impressed is it worth keeping on so it gets better or ami better off going out and getting Dragon Age 2 tomorrow


 
I have absolutely no idea about Red Dead Redemption (alas not on PC!), but there is a thread about it somewhere on this forum which might give you an idea of how it pans out.

DA2 has had mixed reviews, but personally I like it a great deal - it's not going to knock my favourite couple of games out of the top spots in my list, but it is good fun and there are loads of side quests and companion quests - there are no huge dungeon crawls like there are in Origins (at least not thus far, I'm in Act III which is the last part), the focus is more on lots of smaller quests.  Combat is fun and fast, and there are some epic combats which are challenging and look superb, I highly recommend pausing the game mid battle and panning the camera around because the effects are really well done.  The story is engaging although I don't know how it pans out yet!

My main criticism of the game is that they reused the same maps over and over - you go to a cave or mansion on a quest and it's the same map as all the previous caves or mansions you've visited, just with different parts of the map being blocked off - but you do get new spawns and loot containers in each "different" instance of you visiting that map.  I blame the short development time for this, I'd have preferred waiting longer for release and having more unique locations, but they seem to be putting games out on a conveyor belt since they became part of EA.

Did you play Origins?  If you enjoyed that then I reckon you'll enjoy DA2 - if you didn't, you'll probably be a bit WTF? about the story and references to the previous game and I'd recommend playing it first.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 18, 2011)

I LIVE! 

My first run as a mage took me over 60 hours. Played mostly on hard, but resorted to normal for a handful of tougher fights (and casual once for a very tough fight that netted me my Champion's armour).

I have started my second run.

Have any of you finished it yet? If so, I'd love to hear what you did at the end, and how you felt about how the Big Thing That Happens went down. 

My thoughts on gameplay:

* I honestly didn't mind the recycled areas. There are lots of them, but they are set up in such a way as new areas are opened up in the same caves/underground sewers sometimes, and others shut off at other times. It honestly didn't bother me. More variety would have been nice, but it's not a game-breaker.

* I have no issues with not being able to change companion armour. Yes, it's slightly strange they'd be mostly wearing the same thing over 10 years (although their outfits do change slightly at pre-determined points in the game, depending on what you do), but I'm fine with that. At least it meant I never ended up over-capacity with my inventory.

* I agree the generic names for 'ring' etc weren't helpful. Also, I'm still not really sure about the star system. If I have amulet A that has +7 health and amulet B that has +7 health, but A only has 1 star and B has 5 stars, the game doesn't really explain what the difference is between them. If I'm still getting +7 health from either, is there a difference between them? I have no idea. You can't simply go off the stats anymore, but have to judge through a combination of stats and star rating. It's ... an odd system.

* The combat as a mage was AMAZING. I took Force mage and Spirit Healer as my specialisations, both of which were very useful, although because I took Anders with me everywhere (2 mage party ftw) his Justice specialisation somewhat negated my need for spirit healer - but that said on Hard it was nice to have 2 people who could revive the party or group heal when needed. I found myself pausing for nearly every single combat shot I took, apart from when my mana got too low or all my spells were on cooldown. Now I'm playing a DW rogue I'm not pausing as much, but then I'm only level 8 and have picked a sustained and some passives early on so don't have a lot of actives to pause and use anyway. I'm controlling Beth and Anders quite a bit still though - I think so far mage is my favourite class, something I wasn't expecting at all.

* In Origins I got tired quickly of the epic length of the 4 main quests. It was great to have the BW typical 'gather party, do 4 quests, make a decision, end-game' formula, and it works for storytelling, but when those 4 quests are sooooo long, and when the combat is pretty boring (not a fan of Origins combat at all), it's more like a chore. In DA2 that's all changed. Now all quests are a series of smaller ones that add up to a longer arc. I like the fresh approach, but it does have the unfortunate side-effect of making the game seem like nothing but a bunch of side quests. It would have been nice to have a handful of slightly longer ones in there as well. That said, all the quests tie in to the overall narrative quite well, and slowly help build up a picture of what is happening in the world on the issue at hand. Each helps you find your moral compass ready for the decisions ahead of you.

* The biggest let down for me is your interaction with companions. It's not all bad: party banter is absolutely excellent, for example. A huge improvement over Origins, in fact over any game I've played. It's funny, it's moving, it comments on the world around you, on all sorts of things. I stop and listen to each conversation that triggers. I'm on my second game and I'm hearing new banter between Fenris and Anders that I didn't hear in the first game, even though they were both in my party almost all the time. I also like the new cut-scenes when you go and talk to your companions. It integrates them into the story really well, shows they have their own lives, their own problems, and that they all get on (or not) with each other when you're not around. Your companion quests throughout acts 1, 2 and 3 are tied to the main plot in one way or another, and they, and the resulting 'Questioning Beliefs' conversations that happen afterwards, provide a great way to cement your relationship with them in one way or another. However, and this criticism applies especially to whichever companion you choose to romance, there simply is not enough of that interaction. I recognise the need for BW to pace the growth of relationships over the course of 10 years, and that required set points in the game where you can develop those relationships. Otherwise you get a situation like in Origins where you rush through all the dialogue with them in camp and end up with nothing new to say to them for the rest of the game. However, for a relationship that takes place over 10 years (TEN YEARS), to have 3 relatively short set-piece scenes with your lover is off-putting. If it hadn't have been for Anders hovering around on Hawke's balcony for 3 of those years I might have forgotten entirely he and Hawke were supposed to be a couple. Just a couple of extra opportunities per act for you to initiate a random chat with any of your companions would have been most welcome, even if it wasn't plot related. I've seen this criticism a great deal over at BSN so I do hope it's one of the things they look at in the future. I think they went in the right direction with the relationships (platonic and sexual), but the lack of interaction meant they fell a little flat - something that is a real shame since these relationships have such a deep bearing on the plot itself.

* The endings of acts 1, 2 and 3 are really, really good. 1 throws something really moving at you with a companion, and can play out one of 3 ways. 2 has utter badassness going on, and again features another of your companions. And 3, well, the end of 3 speaks for itself ... and of course very heavily features yet another of your companions. Really excellent.

I guess it'll be spoiler-tags ahoy for talking about what happened plot-wise. I'll leave that for another post


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 18, 2011)

Spoiler: what happened in my game ... MASSIVE SPOILERS



My mage, Cian, was, as you might expect, pro-mage. He sided with Anders on all issues, although favoured a peaceful approach when possible. He and Anders were in a relationship, Anders moved in. He romanced him along the friendship path (I couldn't bring myself to do it on the rivalry path ... I've seen the youtube vids, it's heartbreaking, although, let's face it, it's pretty fucking heartbreaking anyway).

At the end of Act 1, Cian took Varric, Carver and Anders into the Deep Roads, and Carver became a Grey Warden. When Carver came back at the end of Act 3 I thought his character growth was just brilliant.

I maxed out with everyone except Sebastian (he was DLC, in case some don't know who he is), who I found really difficult to work out. I'd gain friendship here, rivalry there, so in the end I gave up. I knew he was going to leave the party at the end anyway, because of my decision, so I wasn't too bothered. Plus, I thought he was a bit of a dick. A very pretty dick with a smouldering accent, but a dick nonetheless. 

I had everyone at max friendship except Fenris and Merrill, who were at max rivalry (and Carver, who doesn't count). (This time around I'm going to have a bash at getting everyone to max friendship, which will be interesting considering I'm playing a fanatical pro-mage rogue ... trying for a friendmance with Fenris will be challenging). 

Isabela brought the relic back, and helped me take down the Arishok. Aveline was adorable when she was falling for Donnic (who, I'm positive was voiced by the same person who did Carver, which was utterly off-putting). Fenris killed his sister. Anders didn't kill the mage girl in the cave. Merrill didn't complete the mirror, and we killed her entire clan (that was heartbreaking - I remembered them all from playing the Dalish elf origin in Origins ... I stared at the paused screen for ages wailing 'don't make me kill Fenarel!!!').

And the ending. Oh, the ending. Hawke helped Anders with his quests, he even distracted Grand Cleric Elthina when he knew something wasn't right. (Incidentally, the Sebastian DLC is really worth getting because you get extra content with Elthina that sheds more light on the Chantry's stance on the mage issue ... it can completely alter your point of view about what Anders did.*) He was still shocked when Anders finally blew up the Chantry though. But, he sided with the mages (come on, Meredith was batshit insane, and there was no way he could allow the Rite of Annulment to happen, mage or not), and, more importantly, he let Anders live and told him to stay with them. At that point Seb got all righteous and fucked off, threatening to bring back an army from Starkhaven to march on Kirkwall. Let him try, I say. 

I was sad Orsino let himself give into temptation, but it highlighted for me even more the importance of what Anders did. There simply was no hope at compromise. That ship had sailed, it was too late. Meredith was a symbol for all that was wrong about the Templars and the worst of their abuses, Orsino was an example of how the existence of the Circle in ANY iteration would always drive mages to extremes, and Elthina was an example of how the Chantry was utterly useless at mediation -- since it is complicit in the Templars' power, but claims neutrality, and since Elthina herself sat silently watching things go to hell. What Anders did was necessary, despite the killing of innocents (although I do not see Elthina as innocent in any of this). Yes, things have really gone to shit now, and many, many hundreds if not thousands will die on both sides in the aftermath and resulting war, but no one achieved meaningful change by writing a strongly worded letter, amirite?

*During Seb's personal quest we hear that the Divine -- the leader of the Chantry -- is planning an Exalted March on Thedas because of the growing tensions between Meredith and Orsino. An Exalted March would have been indiscriminate in its killing, and thousands more innocents would have died than died at Anders' hands. That certainly puts new light on what he did, and why targeting the Chantry instead of, say, Templar headquarters, was the right thing to do. It's a damn shame this is only in the DLC though, because it's pretty crucial.


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## Epona (Mar 18, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> I LIVE!



Hooray!  Good to see you back VP 



Vintage Paw said:


> My first run as a mage took me over 60 hours. Played mostly on hard, but resorted to normal for a handful of tougher fights (and casual once for a very tough fight that netted me my Champion's armour).
> 
> I have started my second run.
> 
> Have any of you finished it yet? If so, I'd love to hear what you did at the end, and how you felt about how the Big Thing That Happens went down.



I just this minute finished my first playthrough as a DW Rogue and my Epilogue save shows a play time of nearly 63 hours - not bad at all considering I was prepared for it to be shorter than Origins.  Of course I would have liked it to be a bit longer - because it is a good game, and that's a little on the short side for an RPG - but it wasn't as short as I feared it may be, I think that a lot of the complainers don't bother with all the side quests.

I played on normal, I play this stuff for the story and although I like a bit of a challenge occasionally, I can't bear being stuck and constantly reloading to get through battles - I turned it down to casual for a couple of fights that I was finding too tough.  I think the difficulty at the easy end of the scale was just right, at no point did I feel I was being denied content because I was too shit to kill a boss level foe - that happens to me a lot in video games and it's annoying!

I'm not going for a second run right away, I'm going to reinstall Origins and Awakening and get any DLC I missed, play that through again and then import my save.



Vintage Paw said:


> My thoughts on gameplay:
> 
> * I honestly didn't mind the recycled areas. There are lots of them, but they are set up in such a way as new areas are opened up in the same caves/underground sewers sometimes, and others shut off at other times. It honestly didn't bother me. More variety would have been nice, but it's not a game-breaker.



Not a game-breaker (I still loved the game!), but I was a little disappointed by it.  I place high value on exploration and my favourite genre is open world RPGs - obviously I don't expect that in every game I play, but this is a big area in which my experience of DA2 could have been greatly improved.



Vintage Paw said:


> * I have no issues with not being able to change companion armour. Yes, it's slightly strange they'd be mostly wearing the same thing over 10 years (although their outfits do change slightly at pre-determined points in the game, depending on what you do), but I'm fine with that. At least it meant I never ended up over-capacity with my inventory.



Yeah I got used to it - I do prefer to kit out my party myself because it gives me a chance to put robes and heavy armour that my character couldn't wear to use, but I can live with it.



Vintage Paw said:


> * I agree the generic names for 'ring' etc weren't helpful. Also, I'm still not really sure about the star system. If I have amulet A that has +7 health and amulet B that has +7 health, but A only has 1 star and B has 5 stars, the game doesn't really explain what the difference is between them. If I'm still getting +7 health from either, is there a difference between them? I have no idea. You can't simply go off the stats anymore, but have to judge through a combination of stats and star rating. It's ... an odd system.



I got used to it after a while - if it had a generic name and not many stars I just sold it, and the stars did provide a useful quick-glance system at which items in my inventory were most useful to myself and each of my companions.  It was slightly annoying not being able to look at my companions' inventories when in my estate when I was next to my storage chest - I was in and out of there kitting them out.  But at least the loading screens were very short this time!



Vintage Paw said:


> * The combat as a mage was AMAZING....



I'm going to play through as a mage next time, I found as a rogue I still paused quite a lot at higher levels, there are some really cool abilities that require a moments thought to decide which one to go for.  I was slightly disappointed at first that whirlwind and other melee talents that could strike more than 1 foe at a time had been moved to the warrior class, but that means I am definitely going to play that class at some point rather than finding it boring - warriors certainly had some better talents this time around.  So it looks like Bioware got that right, if I'm thinking of playing a warrior!



Vintage Paw said:


> * In Origins I got tired quickly of the epic length of the 4 main quests.



Ideally I'd like to see something halfway between Origins and DA2 for the next installment - I do feel satisfied after completing a nice long slog of a quest, but I also like a large number of small quests - Origins went too far in one direction (I loved the quest for the mage's circle, but the deep roads part was tedious on subsequent playthroughs), and DA2 too far the opposite way IMO, it led to it feeling slightly disjointed until near the end when it all came together, and was lacking the sense of achievement I get from getting through a really long and difficult quest.



Vintage Paw said:


> * The biggest let down for me is your interaction with companions...



I agree with that 100% - most of the companion dialogue and scenes were excellent, but I felt a bit disconnected from my relationship with Anders as it should have been richer in the later portion of the game - just being able to talk to him occasionally, ask him to come to bed or argue with him about leaving his dirty undies on the floor instead of putting them in the laundry basket, or clicking on him and having him make some comment about the current situation - that sort of interaction after you'd 'landed your fish' but before the final summing up would have made all the difference.  I didn't feel anything like the emotional connection I felt for example with Alistair in Origins (my first game was as a city elf and he dumped me and despite all the hours I'd put in to the game by that point I felt hurt enough to abandon that playthrough!  Which is an indication of just how good a job the writers did.)  I liked the friend/rival system overall though, rather than having to pick the right line of dialogue in the right order or leave them behind for certain quests in order to gain points with companions as in Origins.



Vintage Paw said:


> * The endings of acts 1, 2 and 3 are really, really good. 1 throws something really moving at you with a companion, and can play out one of 3 ways. 2 has utter badassness going on, and again features another of your companions. And 3, well, the end of 3 speaks for itself ... and of course very heavily features yet another of your companions. Really excellent.



Agreed, excellent storytelling and sense of tension and climax for the ending of every act.

One other thing - I thought the system of finding sources of ingredients for crafting rather than harvesting them yourself was excellent and was much more convenient than having crafting skills distributed between different companions and having to go back and forth to your party chest at camp then out again and back again (with long loading screens!) in order to have a companion make potions, or carry loads of ingredients in order to craft a potion, or running out of ingredients and potions and finding yourself up shit creek!  This was a good solution for the issues that Origins had with crafting.

And one final point - the game should have started with a small portion where you could talk to your family, even if it was set a bit before the start of the game we were given - so that the scene very early on when someone dies would have actually meant something - I didn't even know who that person was or what connection I had with them, and as such it didn't have a very big impact at all.  I understand that the devs wanted to plunge us straight into combat, what with that being the biggest change (and improvement!) from Origins, but it was slightly confusing and if I was supposed to feel moved, I didn't - and it took me a while to work out how the person affected was connected to me even after reaching Kirkwall!  That could have been achieved with a short portion of non-combat prologue so you could get to know your family before it all kicks off.

Overall I'd give the game 8.5 out of 10 - the main areas of criticism being reuse of locations and lack of connection with the romances aspect of the game, and the lack of at least one longer quest or dungeon crawl - but other than that it is a really good game.

VP - sorry, had to snip some of your comments because for the first time ever on Urban I got a "post has too many characters" error


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## Epona (Mar 19, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> Spoiler: what happened in my game ... MASSIVE SPOILERS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: and my VERY spoilery comments, do not read unless you have finished the game!



I loved the story, it was superb.  I played it more or less the same route that you took, except I was good friends with Fenris, Isabella left never to be seen again, and I don't have Sebastian (didn't realise until halfway through, but will get that DLC for my next playthrough).  I thought Anders was superb in Awakening, so when I met him in DA2 there was no other option but to romance him - but by god the bloke is completely fucking hatstand, and I loved it that even though I was trying to take a more peaceful path throughout he still went and did That Thing regardless of my attempt at being a calming influence - that's more realistic than just having a companion say "yes I agree with you" and abandon their convictions after you've got a certain number of friendship points, but ffs that was a bit OTT!  I was kind of shocked, having avoided all spoilers - but at the end of the day although he might have been a loony, he was MY loony and I stood by him.

In my game I had Bethany in Act I and didn't take her to the deep roads so she went to the Circle - good thing because on the PC Merrill's companion quest triggers are completely screwed up and if you take Beth/Carver with you it's irredeemable - as it was I got Merrill's dialogues in completely the wrong order!  I'm putting off romancing Merrill until there is a patch for this.  I thought she was a really well written tragic character, and having played through the Dalish origin in DA:O I had some sympathy for her, although still ended up at full rivalry, I just couldn't condone her actions.

Unfortunately I guessed who the lyrium idol had been sold to right away when I was told it had been sold, so there were no surprises for me later on when it was revealed.

I should have listened to you and played a mage for my first playthrough though, because I naturally sided with the mages - I now want to play as a mage but I also want to side with the templars (and dl Sebastian) to see how that pans out, so I have a bit of a dilemma in terms of it all fitting together.  I'm struggling to work out which companions I want to take on my next playthrough - all the warriors are anti-mage and all the mages are anti-Templar (and next time I want to keep Isabella, so she will be my rogue, in the hope that I will get her to full friendship or rivalry and will stay) so it's a bit of a conundrum, but I know I'm going to play as a male and have Fenric as my love interest.  Poor Varric is a bit redundant in all of my plans for future games!


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## Epona (Mar 19, 2011)

Been re-downloading all my Origins DLC for the last 3 hours - bored now 

Edit: still hasn't finished, I'm losing the will to live...


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## ruffneck23 (Mar 20, 2011)

thrown myself in this to escape from reality , about 16 hours in and am really enjoying it, strange as i didnt really like the first one , i think i may go and pick up a copy of it and origins and give them a proper go


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## LDR (Mar 21, 2011)

Epona said:


> I just this minute finished my first playthrough as a DW Rogue and my Epilogue save shows a play time of nearly 63 hours - not bad at all considering I was prepared for it to be shorter than Origins.  Of course I would have liked it to be a bit longer - because it is a good game, and that's a little on the short side for an RPG - but it wasn't as short as I feared it may be, I think that a lot of the complainers don't bother with all the side quests.


I finished it yesterday as Rogue with a play time of about 40 hours over about half a dozen sessions.   It was ok but not enough to make me replay and make a longer game of it.  I found it a bit easy really but can't be bothered playing again on a higher difficulty level.

Bring on Elder Scrolls V - Skyrim and The Witcher II.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 26, 2011)

Epona said:


> Spoiler: and my VERY spoilery comments, do not read unless you have finished the game!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm playing on hard again most of the time though, and now my dw rogue has levelled up nicely I've got some amazing talents. I took duellist and assassin, and my perfect combo of choice with hard bosses is to slap a Mark of Death on then, stealth over to them with Vendetta, stab 'em with an Assassinate, and then execute a swift Twin Fangs. Gets rid of almost everyone very quickly that way. Twin Fangs, incidentally, is one of the best early-ish talents to get. It's astonishing to see an enemy's health bar just be sucked away. And I quite like the animation for it too.

I was going to play an archer in my 3rd game (because I will undoubtedly play this over and over), but I'm tempted to play a 2H warrior instead. Like you, I agree BW must be doing something right because I never play a warrior, never played one in Origins, but I'm as excited as hell to play one here. So archer will have to wait. And my warrior will be relatively pro-templar, in a pragmatic way, not a mean way. I'm going to rivalmance Anders. Hell, that will be the epitome of angst.



Spoiler: more spoilery spoilers of spoilerific spoileritude



Yes, this time around I'm friendmancing Fenris, and it's nice to see the differences in his character and the way he talks now I'm at max friendship with him as opposed to max rivalry. I'm just in act 3 (this is still my 2nd run - and it's taken me equally as long as before), but looking forward to getting to the good stuff at the end.

Isabela fucked off and never came back this time too. I guess you have to be at a certain amount of friendship with her for her to come back, which I achieved in the first game, but not the second. In the 1st I took on the Arishok with everyone, this time I duelled him alone. Put that baby down to casual I'm not ashamed to admit lol.

I let Beth be taken by the Templars in this game. I really don't care one jot for her if I'm honest, whereas Carver is a really excellent character.I think I'll always make Carver a warden when I play mage, because his character development is great. I really don't care what happens to Beth though 

When you think about it, Hawke's had a pretty shitty life. Dad died young, they were a family on the run, their home was destroyed and while fleeing his brother/sister was killed by an ogre. Then his remaining sibling gets something bad happen to them or dies, his mother is killed by a serial killer, he gets into the relationship from hell (regardless of who it's with, but with Anders most definitely), the city goes to shit around him, and on his watch the Chantry gets blown up, the Grand Cleric killed, and a revolution that will kill thousands begins. Remind me to move to another city if Hawke ever moves here, k?

There isn't too much of a problem with having companions with alternating views in the same party. I have had Anders and Fenris in my party almost all the time together in this run and they were both maxed at friendship by the end of act 1. It just takes some careful planning and managing of responses. By far the biggest bump in points you'll get is on their personal quests or quests related to things they feel passionate about. There are a lot of mage quests, obviously, but it's reasonably easy to not piss Fenris off too much on them but at the same time please Anders. 

And I've been taking Varric everywhere with me during my dw rogue run. He's hilarious. Playing as a mage I took Izzy as often as Varric, which is perhaps why I got higher friendship earlier on and she came back. I expect I'll try to alternate her and Varric during my warrior run, because, yes, Anders and Fen will be permanent members again.


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## Epona (Mar 27, 2011)

Yep loved playing a rogue - I always went for vendetta first against higher level foes (because it got me to my mark quickly, easy way to target and move to the most dangerous foe), then mark of death, also that grenade thing was really useful against mobs especially when upgraded, and I used twin fangs a lot too, you're right the animation for that was pretty cool!

I'm still playing through Origins again at the moment (and will follow it up with Awakening and Witch Hunt) to have a save to import into my next game, apparently there are some different quests as a result - also I'm waiting for the next patch before playing DA2 again, the PC version has some fairly major bugs right now so I am just taking it easy through Origins with no rush, hopefully by the time I've finished that some of the worst problems in DA2 will have been patched.



Spoiler: about my next playthrough



I absolutely must take Isabella along because I didn't get to know her or do her quest at all in my last game, she just buggered off never to be heard from again.  Will romance Fenris, although I still have a soft spot for Anders despite everything (maybe it's because he is a cat person).  I can't see myself ever getting friendship with Merrill in any playthrough, she's just too fucked up and I always end up playing the good guy in games to a certain extent!  I will do one playthrough at some point to romance her just to see how it pans out (once the Merrill quest bugs are sorted on PC) but it's going to be a tempestuous relationship and angry make up sex.  Poor Merrill!

So yeah next playthrough as Mage with Fenris as LI, Isabella, and probably Anders.  Then after that a game as 2H Warrior with Sebastian (when I get that DLC!), Aveline, and Merrill as LI.  Then I still have to work Varric into a playthrough at some point, maybe I will have to do another Mage character to fit that in.  

I usually complain about lack of choice of rogue companions in party RPGs - which is why I got into playing rogue characters in the first place - but this time it's gone too far the other way and I'm struggling to make use of them all!  Oooh though perhaps I should try out an all-rogue party, just to see how that would pan out.  My character and Isabella as DW rogues, and Sebastian and Varric as archers - that would be different.  Shame there aren't enough mage or warrior companions to try out similar strategy with those classes


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## Cid (Apr 2, 2011)

Intriguingly there's a new Dungeon Siege out soon, developed by Obsidian (kotor 2, fallout: New vegas, NWN2) and published by square enix... They seem to have picked up Bioware's cut scene illustrators.


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## agricola (Apr 4, 2011)

Have finished it once (as a tank), playing through it again.  I prefer it to DA:O, at least at the moment.


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## Psychonaut (Apr 4, 2011)

my thoughts on combat

imo the difficulty is set right when im forced to reload a fight at least 5 times,occasionally more, and try out different things. In this respect there were a lot of sections on nightmare that got it right, or at least were a huge improvemnet over vanilla DAO. (although it took me most of my playtime to realise what the hexagonal sustained modes did, and it did get a lot easier once i was started using them, as you might expect) The appeal of this style of play apart from the tactical style is a sense of urgency and necessity when buying new gear or levelling up, so the new abilities become a highly valued landmark instead of eyecandy. Sometimes ill have to abandon an quest and look around for something else i can doeasier, so the emotional reward and sense of satisfaction of eventually getting past a tough fight is much higher. I appreciate a lot of people want a less tactical more 'hack and slash' style of play, which is fine with me, but i just hope that bioware continue trying to please both types of players, instead of leaving everything up to the modding community. 

A major AI fault (or design?) which plagues a lot of RPGs is the way you can 'pull' a few enemies out of a large gang, despatch them seperately. Apart from being easy and repetitive it breakes the immersion factor as IRL a street gang or a pack of animals would alert each other and face you as a group. People will say i dont _have_ to take advantage but the alternative is to actively trying to avoid taking advantage ifswim. 

Some of the boss battles got very tedious - conceptually & artistically nice to look at - but tedious to play, running around in a circle for 45mins then reloading because the PC crashed or the phone rang and i looked away briefly is not my idea of fun. In future ill just lower the difficulty if it looks like one of those fights. 

Another glitch with combat is it seems to reward over-reliance on kiting (kill in transit or running away from something) A certain amount of kiting behaviour is normal play and thus desirable, but it can seem repetitive. and makes the use of tanks/taunt redundant in places. There is a mod out allready that makes enemies 20% faster, which should be interesting.

The class specialization trees were a big step forward. I like that everyone has their own unique path. It also means that your choice of PC class isnt redundant anymore as you can unlock 3 specializations which cant be directly replicated by your companions.


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## Epona (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm waiting for a patch to fix major companion bonus issues, the broken Merrill questline, and some broken side-quests before my next playthrough.  I'm losing patience at this point!  Broken side-quests I can live with, but when bugged out companion bonuses leave you with a damage resistance score in the minus numbers and attacking at a speed which would make a hibernating tortoise look positively supersonic, it's a bit much.

I'm temporarily downgrading my score from 8.5 to 6, because I can't try out different companion options as it stands.


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## tommers (Apr 5, 2011)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...y-brothers-but-do-live-together-201104053691/


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## Cid (Apr 5, 2011)

Been getting back into it a bit after some time off to get work done (and play shogun), have to say I also found the gameplay a bit too repetitive, the merits of shorter dungeons being offset by the fact they all look the same...


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## Cid (Apr 5, 2011)

Not impressed... (sort of spoilers)


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## Epona (Apr 6, 2011)

Cid said:


> Not impressed... (sort of spoilers)




Couldn't understand a fucking word of that - I have an auditory processing problem (imagine if you have to translate your native language in your head as if it were not your native language when hearing it spoken by others and you'll be someway towards understanding the issue) and the bloke is just speaking way too fast.  What the narration sounds like to me - "bur burble burburbur, bur bur burburburble burburbur rhubarb"

'Tis why I always get worked up about subtitles (or lack of/poorly done) in games


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## Termite Man (May 7, 2011)

how do you add a rune to a weapon/armour?


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## agricola (May 11, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> how do you add a rune to a weapon/armour?


 
Sandal does it for you, whereever he and Bohdan (sp?) can be found at that point in the game (either in the dwarf bit of hightown for act 1, or in your estate for acts 2 and 3).


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## Vintage Paw (Aug 12, 2011)

Anyone been playing the first DLC, Legacy?

I got it day of release, played it twice, and really enjoyed it.

Played through first time with a lvl 6 mage and OMG it was rather tough. I started out on Hard, quickly had to go down to Normal, ended on Casual and was still growling through it (had to kill the bastard main boss at the end on my own because everyone kept dying).

Played through the second time as a lvl 25 dual wielding rogue, post campaign, and it was fucking excellent. Played the whole thing through on hard and only had a couple of moments where things were remotely tough*. Thoroughly enjoyable. And since I'd not played DA2 for a while, going back and having so much fun with my rogue has made me start up a new game to play the whole thing from start to finish again.

If anyone is considering Legacy, there are a few things to know about when you do it and who you should bring:

• It's available from the moment you reach Gamlen's house in Lowtown, and available right through to post campaign. You can choose to do it at any point. There are some considerably difficult fights in it, so you may want to wait until you've levelled up a little. If you're going to do it before the Deep Roads, I'd suggest leaving it until you have finished everything else in Act 1, just so you have as much experience and as many abilities/spells/talents as possible and as much good gear as you can get. Some have said it makes sense to do it in Act 1 since you'll get the most out of the loot you get during the quest, but since I've gotten all the DLC weapons and armour packs (which, incidentally, are fucking excellent) that's not an issue for me. I'm more interested in narrative continuity for this quest than loot (a shocker, I know).

• There will be subtle differences in dialogue, party banter, and so on, depending on when you complete the quest (and the very fact that there is lots of new party banter is utterly excellent — this is the first BioWare DLC to have that, I believe. Not even Mass Effect 2's excellent Lair of the Shadow Broker had any new party banter). What's more, the post-quest scene you get will vary really quite markedly depending on when you complete it. I didn't find the Act 1 end scene that remarkable, tbh. The late-Act 3 scene, however, was utterly superb, incredibly moving, and I will be completing Legacy during Act 3 from now on because of it. What's more, the Act 3 scene you get will vary depending on particular things, like the status of your sibling. I hear there is a distinct one for Act 2 as well.

• The 3 companions it makes most sense to bring with you, in my opinion, are your sibling, Anders, and Varric. Your sibling because Legacy is, amongst other things, the story of your father (who is in the DLC, sort of, and is voiced by Nicholas Boulton, the VA who voices dudeHawke), and so there are some nice moments of reflection. Regardless of what point you are at in the game, if your sibling is still alive they can accompany you, even if they are in the Grey Wardens or Templars or Circle Tower at the time. A nice touch, I thought. Anders should be with you because he is a Grey Warden, and Legacy is about Grey Wardens. He has some excellent dialogue, and there is a special scene during the quest with him that makes it all worthwhile. Varric makes sense to bring along because part of the story involves some Carta Dwarves, and you find out a little bit about his Tethras ancestry as well, which again leads to some really nice dialogue. But really, all companions have new dialogue, your romance will be referenced if you have one at the point when you play, and it's nicely polished. Those three are the best to take, though.

• You get the choice to upgrade a weapon 3 times during the course of the quest. In my opinion, and it seems others agree, the best choices to make at each of the 3 points are: 1) Cold damage (does what it says on the tin); 2) Armour Penetration (attacks now completely ignore enemy armour!); 3) Critical Chance or Critical Damage, whichever you need more of.

• Fire protection. Fire protection. Fire protection. Suit up before you head on out. All of you. Runes, amulets, rings, belts, armour. Trust me, you'll thank me later.

• Learn the quirks of the Hold command. You will more than likely find yourself using it during the final fight. However, many people, including myself, have found out all too late that once you move more than a particular distance away from your companions, they ignore the Hold command and find themselves getting rather clingy, not liking to be away from you, and start sauntering over anyway. During the final fight, this is bad. Very bad. So, make sure you plan where you want them to be, make sure if you want them to follow you you move slowly and precisely so they don't get caught in compromising situations (this is why you need fire protection, in case they do get caught — Anders got stuck in the path of constant during my rogue run, but barely took any damage because he was stacked to the brim with fire protection. Varric, on the other hand, barely got a spark on him and was insta-killed -_-). And if you do need to use Hold, don't stray too far, or you will come a cropper.

• Utilise Hold when doing the pillars puzzle. Otherwise you will quickly get very, very annoyed with accidentally clicking on your companions and hearing them spout their ambient dialogue at you when you're trying to turn another fucking pillar around omg SHUT UP YOU CUNTS.

• Get behind Genlock Alphas (Vendetta & Backstab are your friends, if you are a dual wielding rogue, at least).

• There is a Bronto called Wanka.

*I don't know why, but a dual wielding rogue appears to be the most awesome class in the game to play, in terms of it just being utter fun and in terms of your enemies being killed instantly. I'm one-hitting almost everything on Hard difficulty, and even during Legacy, which has ramped up the difficulty a little compared to the rest of the game, I only had a couple of moments where things got hairy, and even then I never got a game over. During the most recent patch for the game, the devs said they thought dw rogue was underpowered so they bumped a few things up. Er, I have no idea what game they were playing, but dw rogue was the most deadly class from release. Anyway, not only is it immense fun to play, but I would suggest that if you want to play on harder difficulties, this is the one to go for.

And a tip for the most effecting boss killing combo, that I utilise in this order for almost every fight:

(Optional: Miasmic Flask — stuns most things at the beginning of a fight to give you time to set up your main attack); Mark of Death (fully upgrade at the earliest possibility); Vendetta (again, upgrade fully — this gives you a deadly backstab that you can activate even when way across the map far away from your target, you sort of teleport to it); Assassinate (fully upgraded); Twin Fangs (upgraded — one of the most powerful base abilities in the game for a dw rogue, get as soon as possible, and watch those health bars get sucked away). By this point, most bosses should be deaddeaddead. However, if they are not, activate Pinpoint Strikes before your normal slashy attacks, have a mage who can cast Haste, think about getting the Lacerate sustained, and make sure you've also concentrated on getting plenty of passives. The 3 passives in the Scoundrel tree are excellent, for example.

I swear, I tend to play games just for the story and the sheer fun of it, and never take them too seriously. DA2 is the first game in which I've ever really concentrated on class builds and combat and strategy. The game has its flaws, no doubt, but it's such good fun.


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## Vintage Paw (Oct 14, 2011)

Jesus, I swear I'm the only one of us still playing this game 

Finished the latest DLC, Mark of the Assassin, last night. Rather a fun mission, quite long too. Worth the money, I'd say.

They introduced a new game mechanic into it: stealth.

However, because Hawke can't use cover, it was pretty limited, and annoying as hell. Thankfully you can choose whether you want to use stealth or not, and I shan't be using it next time.

Both the DLC missions, this and Legacy, seemed to up the difficulty in quite a few parts, which was welcome. I only had to reload MotA once while playing on Hard, and then only lost one of my party members the once in battle. Pretty good going, I'd say. I did it using my end game dual wielding rogue though, who was level 27 when I started, 28 by the time I finished. He's hard as fucking nails, and the 2 companions I took with me, Aveline and Merrill, are both spec'd to be immovable tanks. My friend is playing through at the moment, and he's a far more proficient gamer than I am, and he's had to rage quit quite early on, playing on Normal, because he can't get past a specific fight. He's only at level 16 though, so that's probably why. Although you'd think the difficulty would scale with Hawke's level. Maybe I'm just preternaturally excellent when it comes to Dragon Age 2?

I'm still loving this game, anyway. I'm not playing it for story anymore, only for character builds. It's the first game I've ever played where I've really gotten into building the hardest, most bad-ass characters I can. I've never been that bothered by combat and so on before, it's just been a means to an end while I travel through a story. But there's something about DA2 that just seems to suit my play style and preferences so well.

Anyway, yeah, Mark of the Assassin is a decent DLC. It's got a bunch of puzzles that are annoying as all hell though. And that stealth >_<


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## Blackandyellow (Nov 14, 2011)

I haven't done and DLC cause I was thinking it isn't worth it due to the fact that I already finished the main plot anyway. Can any of you rate the enjoyability and bang for the buck DLC provides? If I do download it, am I wasting money?


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 17, 2011)

I paid for them (xbox) and played them post-campaign and thoroughly enjoyed them. Worthy additions to the game, imo. But I'm still playing the game, with various characters, so I do them at different points in the story each time. (Both are best once you've levelled up a fair bit though, since they are rather tough, so you want a good compliment of actives to kill things with.)


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 25, 2012)

was ill this week so played DAII

I was playing on casual because  fighting isn't really my thing  but   what shocked me  was  although I was trying to do all the side  quests  managed to  burn through the whole thing in about 24 hours of game play.  

DA1 felt loooooong   I never even finished it.  i did the beginning  the  village the  big castle  and the mage tower  and  the very starty of the big city.  and i swear i had dumped in 30 hours plus.  

also  in 1  i always zoomed all the way out to get the isometric view  and i really missed that in this game  it  felt too much like  it was  stuck on being a console game.

as for ending.  well  i unknowingly  triggered it  without completing  the bone pit  side quest  (for obvious scaly reasons) so i've not actually finished it off  but  if been trying to  play  a fairly neutral  character  but  basically  pro mage liberty  given they are in fact a mage  and  mainly goes around in a party  with  Merrill, Anders and  Varric.

i just kinda wish  there were more neutral mages.  you get  quite a few templars who  are trying to find a peacful solution  but  it seems  that every fucking mage i meet  breaks out  the ol blood magic the moment shit starts getting real.    know i know  that this is supposedly due to the presures of the situation but  jesus  i  just  wish there were one or two   more  peaceful mages to balance shit out.


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