# travelling to america with a juvenile caution



## misty74 (Sep 7, 2008)

is there anyone out there who can put my mind at rest

we are going on a large family holiday to america in November, recently my son who is 15 was arrested as he got stopped by the police for a random search and stupidly had a very small amount of what he believed was cocaine in is pocket which he owned up to finding with his mates earlier...

The police got it tested and it was..taking everything into consideration as he has never been in trouble before the police inspector decided to give him a final warning caution...he deeply regrets what he done and when we were with the Inspector I asked him if this would affect him travelling to america with his family...as a my father had just applied for our visa waiver program after the offence as he has no idea what has happened...and it states on there that if you have ever been arrested or convicted you must tick the yes box...obviously my father unawre of all this and ticked no

The Inspector said that it would come up on a CRB check but would not come up when entering the US as he was not charged and the fingerprintng they do is more for the US to know who is in their country and would only flag something up if he was a serious criminal..

This put mine and my sons mind at ease but after reading similar incidents on forums I don't know if this is 100% true...This will be a holiday of a lifetime for all the family but all I can think about is what if it does come up and they think we have lied on the VWP my father applied for which said Authorisation Approved...it states that you are permitted to travel to the US but US immigration have the final say...Would the US have records of a final warning? 

If there is anyone that knows the answer it would be very much appreciated


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## PAD1OH (Sep 7, 2008)

when I was a kid I often used the "I found it somewhere" excuse....... it was a good one.

seriously though, are you not better off checking with the US embassy or US immigrantion etc.


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## ethel (Sep 7, 2008)

i think he'll need a visa. from US embassy site:



> Some travelers may not be eligible to enter the United States visa free under the VWP. These include people who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction, those with criminal records, (the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to U.S. visa law), certain serious communicable illnesses, those who have been refused admission into, or have been deported from, the United States, or have previously overstayed on the VWP. Such travelers must apply for special restricted visas. If they attempt to travel without a visa, they may be refused entry into the United States.


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## trashpony (Sep 7, 2008)

No, the US authorities would not have a record of a caution so don't worry about it, go on your holiday and have a good time


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## maximilian ping (Sep 7, 2008)

i was cautioned when i was 14 for reckless riding of a bicycle and when i went to US 5 years later no mention


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## 1927 (Sep 7, 2008)

PAD1OH said:


> when I was a kid I often used the "I found it somewhere" excuse....... it was a good one.
> 
> seriously though, are you not better off checking with the US embassy or US immigrantion etc.



Do NOT  contact the US Embassy, if you ring them they will therefore know about the caution  and could prevent him entering the States. Best option is to keep quiet, do not declare it on wvp form and keep fingers crossed. Despite this topic cropping up regularly I do not recall anybody ever saying they have been prevented from entering.

Rachamin 18 or whatever will be alonmg shortly for his usual input on this subject, but just ignore him cos he always spouts bollox.


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## misty74 (Sep 7, 2008)

trashpony...thank you for the positive response but how do you know this for sure?...I know it's only a final warning caution but it is because it was a class A is the reason I am worried as it says on the VWP about 'controlled substances'


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## misty74 (Sep 7, 2008)

does anyone also know what the fingerprinting when entering is for if it's not to check for a criminal record?


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## trashpony (Sep 7, 2008)

misty74 said:


> trashpony...thank you for the positive response but how do you know this for sure?...I know it's only a final warning caution but it is because it was a class A is the reason I am worried as it says on the VWP about 'controlled substances'



I know it for sure because I have a conviction for possession but I lived there for 2 years because I lied about it.

The fingerprint is to make sure it's you that's left the country again and that you're not on the international dangerous terrorist database, not to cross-check against the UK petty criminal system. 

Honestly, there are not the resources for them to have access to every country's petty criminal database.

But yes, don't declare it because if you do, they probably won't let your son in.


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## 1927 (Sep 7, 2008)

misty74 said:


> does anyone also know what the fingerprinting when entering is for if it's not to check for a criminal record?



As Trashy said they do not have the resources to be checking against a database for your son's caution. The US is so large that even their internal computer databases are too lareg to x-reference. I had a mate who lived there for years illegally, got done a few times for traffic offences and wooried himself sick the first time he went to court, but no problem. He was even  a member of the local police benevolent committee in the end, no one ever cross referenced him and he was there under their noses, the chances of them finding your sons caution are pretty much zero. I go back and for all the time, have never declared my criminal record, and have never had a problem.


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## misty74 (Sep 7, 2008)

Thank you...I know I'm probably worrying about nothing its just scarey to think that we could go all that way as a family for a great holiday and for them to not let him in...I was concerned because they have just bought in the 10 fingerprinting system so I thought maybe they would have more access to records...Its just that I read one forum posting that said that the US have access to all data of the countries that take part in the visa waiver program...It sounds crazy to think they wouldn't let him in its just I couldn't stop thinking about it....

You have made me more confident that it will all be ok..I may be able to start looking forward to it now....I guess when the inspector mentioned they fingerprint so they can use it as a traffic light system meant that the people they let in are definately the people they send home


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## misty74 (Sep 8, 2008)

1927...what is your criminal record for? Is it drug realted?...


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## 1927 (Sep 9, 2008)

misty74 said:


> 1927...what is your criminal record for? Is it drug realted?...



No


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## hele robe (Oct 13, 2008)

Hi there did you manage to sort out your query? 

I work for ITV and we're looking for people who have been cautioned and want to know the implications of that.  We have a panel of experts at hand.  
Would you be interested in taking part?


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## Yossarian (Oct 13, 2008)

Do *you* know anybody who had trouble traveling to the US because of a drugs caution? Why not get them to phone in?


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## Jessiedog (Oct 14, 2008)

Do you now, or have you ever........

......Smoked marijuana?



Errrrrrr......

.....Dope?


Errrrrrr......

....Nope!





Woof


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## Detroit City (Oct 14, 2008)

misty74 said:


> ...This will be a holiday of a lifetime for all the family



if you're coming to the US for the "holiday of a lifetime" you will be sadly disappointed


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## iskande (Oct 14, 2008)

hele robe said:


> Hi there did you manage to sort out your query?
> 
> I work for ITV and we're looking for people who have been cautioned and want to know the implications of that.  We have a panel of experts at hand.
> Would you be interested in taking part?



can i be on your programme...? i can pretend to say all sorts of things and give the req shock value to the grannies at home.


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## Bonfirelight (Oct 14, 2008)

hele robe said:


> Hi there did you manage to sort out your query?
> 
> I work for ITV and we're looking for people who have been cautioned and want to know the implications of that.  We have a panel of experts at hand.
> Would you be interested in taking part?



^^^ 
US immigration spook 

no doubt in my mind


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## JWH (Nov 2, 2008)

hele robe said:


> We have a panel of experts at hand.


That's fucking impressive for daytime TV in England, considering even appropriately experienced US immigration lawyers find the system confusing and contradictory.

I know it's a while ago, misty, but you were asking two separate questions: 1) is he entitled to use the Visa Waiver Program if he didn't declare the arrest, and 2) would be he caught if he did. AFAICS (and I have done a *little* reading on it), the answers respectively are no and no. IIRC (it's online somewhere), the I-94W form that you fill in asks specifically if you have been arrested or convicted of crimes relating of moral turpitude (what is that? good question), drugs and other stuff. He would have to tick yes.

At the same time, Border Guard Joe Q Cheeseburger does not have access online and immediately to the handwritten notes of Inspector Boaby McSnuddy in Galashiels. The purpose of the question isn't really to catch you at the point of entry (there's no real way to check), it's so that if they find out later that you lied, they can do you for it and deport you immediately.

This is a question that is asked constantly on britishexpats.com (home of the Malaga Daily Mail reader). Anyone interested in it should consider reading some of the previous threads over there.


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## isitme (Nov 2, 2008)

you can get rid of your juvenile cautions by ringing up the police and asking them

it is really worth doing

it does fuck up your visa applications if you don't

it doesn't cost anything, but they don't do it automatically


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## Miss Caphat (Nov 12, 2008)

I _really_ don't think you have anything to worry about. I'm not sure it would be considered a felony over here anyway, since he's a minor. 

Reminds me of when I was leaving Scotland and got all kinds of freaked out because I'd been there longer than 6 months, read all kinds of horrifying stories on the 'net, only to a) have my passport not even looked at in customs and b) realizing that the stamp on my passport from entering the country, including the date, was totally unreadable.


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## Miss Caphat (Nov 12, 2008)

trashpony said:


> I know it for sure because I have a conviction for possession but I lived there for 2 years because I lied about it.




Hi Trashpony, where did you live in the states? 


Also, I just want to add that there is a rhyme and reason to the way things go in customs. I had a one-way ticket when I left from Boston for London, and I was pulled aside to be carefully checked. The rest of the people pulled aside along with me were _all_ kind of shady looking men on travelling on their own. one of them actually joked "What on earth are you doing in this line?" It was simply because I had a one-way ticket. 

You, as a family clearly on holiday, I would be incredibly suprised if you encountered any problems whatsoever.


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## trashpony (Nov 12, 2008)

Miss Caphat said:


> Hi Trashpony, where did you live in the states?
> 
> 
> Also, I just want to add that there is a rhyme and reason to the way things go in customs. I had a one-way ticket when I left from Boston for London, and I was pulled aside to be carefully checked. The rest of the people pulled aside along with me were _all_ kind of shady looking men on travelling on their own. one of them actually joked "What on earth are you doing in this line?" It was simply because I had a one-way ticket.
> ...



Morning 

I lived in LA but it was a looooong time ago. Nowadays I get to New York for the odd weekend but that's about it.

I agree with you that it's all about context. Returning to LAX from a week's holiday in Mexico six weeks before my visa ran out wasn't one of the smartest things I ever did. I spent two hours in secondary immigration (and they still didn't mention my conviction) because they were worried I was using the holiday as a way of extending my visa


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## Xanadu (Nov 12, 2008)

Trashy, you've been convicted for possession 

Lol   

Sorry, that tickles me


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## denniseagle (Nov 14, 2008)

*online declaration form*

Now instead of filling in the nice form whilst onboard the aircraft  those lovely helpful and trusting folks require you to fill the form in online at least 3 days before flying to the USofA. 
Methinks it might give them a bit more time to find reasons why they should deny you access to the land of the free...................


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## trashpony (Nov 15, 2008)

Xanadu said:


> Trashy, you've been convicted for possession
> 
> 
> Sorry, that tickles me




Misspent youth 

As you know, nowadays I'm a pillar of the community


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## JWH (Nov 20, 2008)

Preface: I am not a lawyer, let alone one with relevant experience...


isitme said:


> you can get rid of your juvenile cautions by ringing up the police and asking them...it is really worth doing...it does fuck up your visa applications if you don't


Making sure spent convictions/expired cautions/whatever have been properly processed is always a good thing, of course, but i wouldn't have thought that would really make a legal difference in this case - the form/US government asks for all convictions, regardless of spent or not, and they are not subject to Rehabilitation of Offenders Act etc. 


Miss Caphat said:


> I _really_ don't think you have anything to worry about. I'm not sure it would be considered a felony over here anyway, since he's a minor.


Afaics, that's irrelevant because the form asks for everything including arrests, not just felony convictions. Also, the legislation says :

"(2) Criminal and related grounds.-

(A) Conviction of certain crimes.-

(i) In general.-Except as provided in clause (ii), *any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of*-

(I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime), or

(II) *a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law *or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country *relating to a controlled substance *(as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), *is inadmissible* [for entry under the Visa Waiver Program]."

Now, obviously, none of that affects the likelihood that you'd get away with it, which seems extremely high, but you know - it does seem like it's technically out there!


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 24, 2008)

Bollocks I've got minor convictions for all sorts, including class a drugs and never had any problem entering the US. Just tick NO to all the boxes on yer visa waiver (electronic from January) and you'll waltz in.


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## fulhamfc (Mar 31, 2009)

hi misty,
   i am just wondering what happened, i am exactly in the same situation, i have an official police caution and i am not sure if i should apply for a visa or try my luck when i get to the US. can you tell me what you have decided to do? 
  many thanks


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## harpo (Mar 31, 2009)

FWIW, I know someone who's been in prison and has never had trouble entering the states, simply by lying on the form.


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## Detroit City (Mar 31, 2009)

misty74 said:


> If there is anyone that knows the answer it would be very much appreciated



the US won't have a record of anything unless he's an international criminal so don't worry about it...

and anyways they don't check kids for shit like that.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 31, 2009)

I can't imagine that they'd have access to juvenile records even if they had full access to the adult records.  Even in the US juvenile records are sealed after a person becomes an adult and stays out of trouble.


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## nick h. (Mar 31, 2009)

If you apply for a visa do they check your UK police file? I ask because i have an adult caution (which will be on file for years) and I want to spend 6 months in the US, meaning I can't use the VWP so will have to spend a day queuing at the embassy before a 3 minute interview. Can I lie about the caution? People in this thread say the US doesn't have access to UK police files - but I thought they did - didn't they persuade our govt that they needed it for Homeland Security bollocks?


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## derf (Apr 1, 2009)

looking at the date of the OP I'm guessing the thing is over and done with by now.


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## fulhamfc (Apr 1, 2009)

i have an official police caution for possesion of cannabis. what do i do? going to los angeles in october, shall i aplly for a visa or lie on the form? anyone lied on the vwp form and got away with it? answers much appreciated!


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## Detroit City (Apr 1, 2009)

derf said:


> looking at the date of the OP I'm guessing the thing is over and done with by now.



fuck and i wasted my time


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