# Campaign against the closure of the Little Starz nursey in West Norwood.



## editor (Sep 24, 2013)

Forwarded message: 



> Lambeth Save Our Services has been asked to support the campaign against the closure of the Little Starz nursey in West Norwood.
> 
> Can people please sign the petition at:
> http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...and-children-s-centre-west-norwood-kennington
> ...


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## Miss-Shelf (Sep 25, 2013)

does anyone know more about this situation?


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2013)

Is this a private nursery or a LA children's centre


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 25, 2013)

Thora said:


> Is this a private nursery or a LA children's centre



Both & neither, it seems: 



> Little Starz Children’s Centre is one of only a few Children’s Centres that is not owned by the local goverment.
> 
> We are a registered charitable organisation and our centre is at the heart of our local community. We welcome parents and carers views and opinions in every aspect of both the childcare and family services that we provide.



http://www.littlestarz.co.uk/faq/


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2013)

To be honest their Ofsted report is so incredibly poor that I don't see why they should get funding to provide 3 and 4 year old places.


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## Dan U (Sep 25, 2013)

it's had an inadequate OFSTED report and looking quickly back through the history it isn't the first time OFSTED have had to take some kind of action, particularly around safeguarding.

Local authorities are in a bit of a bind here, if OFSTED - or in the case of Adults provision, CQC - produce inspection reports which say a service is not meeting basic standards, they can't make new placements as they would knowingly be putting people in to a service which the inspection regime (as faulted as it is) is saying isn't up to scratch. They simply can't do that.

It would be worth people finding out if this is normal policy in Childrens/Education, if funding would resume once they were up to scratch etc.

appreciate you are just passing the message on editor


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2013)

I believe this is normal policy.  An LA children's centre near me recently had an inadequate judgement and couldn't take any more funded 2 year old places until it improved.


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## Dan U (Sep 25, 2013)

Thora said:


> I believe this is normal policy.  An LA children's centre near me recently had an inadequate judgement and couldn't take any more funded 2 year old places until it improved.



yeah that is the situation in Adults, no new placements until a satisfactory inspection, assumed it would be very similar in Childrens. There has to be some consequence or the LA is leaving themselves horribly exposed.


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2013)

It's such basic things this nursery is getting wrong as well - I mean, leaving (cheap) unqualified, un-CRB checked students alone with children!  Staff not washing their hands, babies being put to sleep on the floor of the playroom instead of in a sleep room (wtf??).  It's not just a case of them not being 100% on top of their paperwork.


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2013)

I wonder how much funding the nursery think they should get while they improve?

As for it being a "charitable organisation" - aren't most private schools charitable organisations?  Does this mean it is non-profit or is there an owner somewhere?


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## trashpony (Sep 25, 2013)

Thora said:


> I wonder how much funding the nursery think they should get while they improve?
> 
> As for it being a "charitable organisation" - aren't most private schools charitable organisations?  Does this mean it is non-profit or is there an owner somewhere?


Yes, private schools are all charities. I can't see why this nursery should stay open, reading this thread. It sounds awful


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2013)

trashpony said:


> Yes, private schools are all charities. I can't see why this nursery should stay open, reading this thread. It sounds awful


Also constant loud music playing, even when children are trying to sleep or listen to stories.  It sounds hellish.


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## love detective (Sep 25, 2013)

Thora said:


> It's such basic things this nursery is getting wrong as well - I mean, leaving (cheap) unqualified, un-CRB checked students alone with children!  Staff not washing their hands, babies being put to sleep on the floor of the playroom instead of in a sleep room (wtf??).  It's not just a case of them not being 100% on top of their paperwork.



Is it normal to have a separate sleep room in nurseries?

In London all of the nurseries i've seen put babies to sleep on mats in the floor, including ones that have been rated outstanding from ofsted

(they all go to sleep at the same time though and have specific time slots for sleep time etc.)


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2013)

love detective said:


> Is it normal to have a separate sleep room in nurseries?
> 
> In London all of the nurseries i've seen put babies to sleep on mats in the floor, including ones that have been rated outstanding from ofsted
> 
> (they all go to sleep at the same time though and have specific time slots for sleep time etc.)


This nursery has a separate sleep room, but isn't using it.  They just put babies on the floor in the same room other staff and children are playing in (presumably due to lack of staff or not wanting to monitor the sleep room).  Though I have never seen a nursery that doesn't at least have a cot room for babies in Bristol, and wouldn't consider using one that couldn't meet the needs of individual babies.


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## Greebo (Sep 25, 2013)

Thora said:


> Also constant loud music playing, even when children are trying to sleep or listen to stories.  It sounds hellish.


WTF?  How little common sense or imagination does anyone need to tell them that intervals of quiet (even if not silence) can be good for small children and the people looking after them?  

As for having a separate sleep room but not using it.


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## trashpony (Sep 25, 2013)

love detective said:


> Is it normal to have a separate sleep room in nurseries?
> 
> In London all of the nurseries i've seen put babies to sleep on mats in the floor, including ones that have been rated outstanding from ofsted
> 
> (they all go to sleep at the same time though and have specific time slots for sleep time etc.)


All the nurseries the foal went to in London had a separate sleep room

The constant loud music sounds horrible


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## Manter (Sep 25, 2013)

The 2010 ofsted was good with outstanding features - what happened ?!


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 25, 2013)

Manter said:


> The 2010 ofsted was good with outstanding features - what happened ?!


Changes in staff?


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2013)

Manter said:


> The 2010 ofsted was good with outstanding features - what happened ?!


I'd guess at a change in management - especially as the 2010 report particularly notes good staff recruitment and deployment and by 2013 they aren't bothering with CRB checks.  I think some nurseries can get complacent after a good report and get sloppy and lazy - especially knowing they won't be inspected again for a while.  Seems this latest inspection was triggered early due to complaints.


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## Manter (Sep 25, 2013)




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## RubyToogood (Sep 25, 2013)

My understanding is that it's not closing and has a new manager. Will check this though. What's the date on the petition?


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 25, 2013)

RubyToogood said:


> My understanding is that it's not closing and has a new manager. Will check this though. What's the date on the petition?


The last update added was on 30th August


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## danny la rouge (Sep 25, 2013)

RubyToogood said:


> My understanding is that it's not closing and has a new manager. Will check this though. What's the date on the petition?


I hope the new manager changes the spelling.  It isn't cute or clever to misspell the names of children's nurseries. Adding a Z doesn't make it "cool".


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## Ms Ordinary (Sep 25, 2013)

Dan U said:


> It would be worth people finding out if this is normal policy in Childrens/Education, if funding would resume once they were up to scratch etc.


 
It certainly isn't the only nursery / childcare provider to have had it's funding slashed by Lambeth in recent years, AFAIK it's happened to most if not all of those which used to receive significant levels of funding. The ones I'm thinking of are community type childcare providers which had been set up by local parents, and then received local authority funding to carry on, rather than private nurseries as such.

I can't look into it in more detail from where I am now, so I'm not sure how much the removal of funding will have had to do with the OFSTED report, it might have happened anyway.

Maybe this is not relevant, but there does seem to be a history of OFSTED giving 'inadequate' reports to primary schools, so that they can be forced to become academies.  Although I can't see what the gain would be here - there doesn't seem to be a private company waiting in the wings to take it over. 
And the parents don't seem to be disputing the OFSTED report, just asking that the nursery be given more time (& funding) to improve.


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 25, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I hope the new manager changes the spelling.  It isn't cute or clever to misspell the names of children's nurseries. Adding a Z doesn't make it "cool".


Plus, any fule kno it should have used the cutesy "Li'l" not "Little".


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 25, 2013)

Ms Ordinary said:


> Maybe this is not relevant, but there does seem to be a history of OFSTED giving 'inadequate' reports to primary schools, so that they can be forced to become academies.  Although I can't see what the gain would be here - there doesn't seem to be a private company waiting in the wings to take it over.



Plus it's not a Local Authority facility to start with?


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 25, 2013)

Ms Ordinary said:


> And the parents don't seem to be disputing the OFSTED report, just asking that the nursery be given more time (& funding) to improve.



The parent who began the petition certainly seems to:



> ...It said no more than we already know and they are not prepared to help Little Starz or parents chase Ofsted on the *contested inadequate* we received following the unpublished outstanding received in March...


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## Ms Ordinary (Sep 25, 2013)

That puts a different slant on it - could OFSTED & Lambeth be in cahoots to get it taken into Local Authority control?



> Little Starz Children’s Centre is one of only a few Children’s Centres that is not owned by the local goverment.


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2013)

Ms Ordinary said:


> That puts a different slant on it - could OFSTED & Lambeth be in cahoots to get it taken into Local Authority control?


Local authorities are having enough trouble funding their own children's centres at the moment to start taking over private nurseries I would have thought.

I'm still not clear on what Little Starz "charitable status" means.  Is it a non-profit organisation or is in just a private nursery?  If someone is making a profit out of the nursery then I really disagree with LAs funding it to provide inadequate care.


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## Dan U (Sep 25, 2013)

RubyToogood said:


> My understanding is that it's not closing and has a new manager. Will check this though. What's the date on the petition?



That seems the best solution


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## love detective (Sep 25, 2013)

Thora said:


> I'm still not clear on what Little Starz "charitable status" means.  Is it a non-profit organisation or is in just a private nursery?  If someone is making a profit out of the nursery then I really disagree with LAs funding it to provide inadequate care.



It just means it's a registered charity - any profits made by it can't be taken out by anyone but have to be retained and used to further the charity's objectives

Overall they (the wider charity that runs this particular nursery) has an annual income of around £1.1m a year, around £800k of that is from fees from parents and £300k is grants for nursery places


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## TopCat (Sep 25, 2013)

Not all charities are worth saving.


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## RubyToogood (Sep 25, 2013)

Anyway I haven't had a chance to check, but I'm sure I'm right and Little Starz isn't closing.


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## gaijingirl (Oct 8, 2013)

Didn't see this thread till recently - but this nursery is v. popular locally (including with some urban parents) and parents have been contesting the "inadequate" Ofsted rating.  I'm not sure what happened there exactly but there are a lot of very upset people in this neck of the woods over its closing down.  I hadn't heard Ruby about what you're saying - all the stuff I've seen suggests it's very much going - but it's interesting you should say that.

I don't know anything about the nursery myself and it may well be horrendous, but I certainly wouldn't go on an Ofsted report alone - and I'm saying that as a teacher myself.

I think this was the last thing I saw http://westnorwood.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/little-starz/  and then all kinds of very different rumours about why it was/wasn't closing both related and unrelated to Ofsted.


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## tommers (Oct 9, 2013)

My son went to this nursery for about 2 years and they were wonderful with him.  Really great staff.

There hasn't been a change of management.   They give free places to local parents and this is not the only centre that lambeth are closing at the moment.

From what I understand the temp room leader left the main room for a short time to help somebody in the corridor outside, leaving a volunteer in the room looking after the children.  My son was there at the time and knowing both staff members I really do not have a problem with that.

The nursery sent us a letter following this to explain and also to outline their objections to the report (for example that all staff are crb'd but that this was never asked for).  

My son started in the baby room and they definitely used to use the sleep room as he'd come back and tell us about it and we'd marvel at how they got a load of kids to all sleep at the same time.

More to the point a load of kids, staff and parents were left high and dry and having to sort out childcare / new jobs with a month's notice.  My wife saw one of the staff the other day and they said it's definitely closing or has already closed.

To be honest my daughter would probably be enrolled now if this hadn't happened.  They were an absolute lifeline to us and I'm really angry that this was done.


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## Oula (Oct 9, 2013)

It has closed. My friend's daughter went there and they had to find a new place with 1 month's notice, as did all the parents.

We had been to see it for our boy but didn't think it was right for him, although not for any of the reasons mentioned in the report. It did a lot of community stuff including a firework display for local little kids and there seemed a real community feel, they had xmas plays and sports days I think and the parents all seemed to know each other. It's a shame nothing could be done to make it work. 

Wonder what will become of the building now and what has happened to the other services it offered? We saw a sleep specialist health visitor there.


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## tommers (Oct 9, 2013)

They also ran local dad's groups and stuff.  God knows what will happen to the local one o'clock club now as well.  (Although I can guess).


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