# Doctor Who Series 9



## Santino (Jun 5, 2015)

Casting news is out for the new series, which basically gives away some plot developments.



Spoiler: villain



Michelle Gomez is back as, presumably, the Master/Mistress. Also Osgood, who was killed, is back.


 
danny la rouge DotCommunist


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 5, 2015)

Good.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2015)

yay osgood


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 5, 2015)

Not a plot development spoiler, but Rebecca Front has been cast too. Be nice to see her interacting with Capaldi again.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2015)

olly last season now this. Capaldi's secretely running the show isn't he? Moffat has been reduced to a shell of a man by malcom


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 5, 2015)

Good.


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## joustmaster (Jun 5, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Good.





ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Good.


Very up-beat.

I usually like your scifi based fury. 
I might keep a tally of your positive and negative comments on the new series


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## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2015)

quicker to just say he'll hate the lot except onne episode which he will say was OK


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## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2015)




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## Lazy Llama (Jun 6, 2015)

There's a Doctor Who Festival at Excel on 13-15th Nov, £65 for adults, £30 for kids. Looks very similar to the Celebration thing they did for the 50th anniversary.
http://www.doctorwho.tv/events/doctor-who-festival/


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## ginger_syn (Jun 7, 2015)

To skint for that looks good though, I'll have to console myself with watching classic who on horror until series 9 starts.


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## SE25 (Jun 9, 2015)

Think I might have to watch this series myself, my fam didn't take to Capaldi (I think he's a don but there you go). The finale was just about good though it threatened to disappoint, especially in part 2.

The Christmas special was a classic though, proper Who and it really showed how well PC has taken to the role


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 9, 2015)

SE25 said:


> Think I might have to watch this series myself, my fam didn't take to Capaldi (I think he's a don but there you go). The finale was just about good though it threatened to disappoint, especially in part 2.
> 
> The Christmas special was a classic though, proper Who and it really showed how well PC has taken to the role



All of this. Why does Capaldi lose the small girl vote so badly?


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## CNT36 (Jun 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> yay osgood


Hopefully an adventure hinted at that has already happened for her and Brig jr.


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## ginger_syn (Jun 10, 2015)

I watched some filming today and got Peter capaldi's autograph as well, so chuffed


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## DotCommunist (Jun 10, 2015)

ginger_syn said:


> I watched some filming today and got Peter capaldi's autograph as well, so chuffed


git!


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## Nine Bob Note (Jun 10, 2015)

Suppose I'd better force myself to watch the rest of the last series, then...

Bring back Matt Smith


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## Impossible Girl (Jun 11, 2015)

I'm such a fan but I don't feel like the 9th season will blow me away. I felt like lost behind season 8 already. Such a shame, MY Doctor is gone for a long time now, what wouldn't I do to have him back


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## JTG (Jun 11, 2015)

Impossible Girl said:


> I'm such a fan but I don't feel like the 9th season will blow me away. I felt like lost behind season 8 already. Such a shame, MY Doctor is gone for a long time now, what wouldn't I do to have him back


Tbh I've felt like that since Davison buggered off 30 years ago


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## Impossible Girl (Jun 11, 2015)

I'm more fond of his son-in-law, but it stays in the family


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## CNT36 (Jun 12, 2015)

Impossible Girl said:


> I'm more fond of his son-in-law, but it stays in the family


I don't think it is the Doctor that was the problem.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2015)

First transgender actor ever on Who:




> she wrote on her Facebook page, “Now to sit back and wait until The Mail realises the BBC have cast an open trans lesbian in a family show.”



http://io9.com/meet-the-first-transgender-actor-on-doctor-who-1722559572


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## spanglechick (Aug 12, 2015)

Just saw the trailer for this season.

Liking rock-n-roll Capaldi... impressed by the level of cheekiness involved in stealing the eyes-in-palms-of-hand monster from Pan's Labyrinth... disturbed by Arya Starck's curly fringe.   But mostly just a really strong feeling of "yes please, i want to see all this" that i didn't have with smith's doctor.


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## ginger_syn (Aug 14, 2015)

The new trailer looks interesting and I'm looking forward to the new episodes


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## Nine Bob Note (Aug 15, 2015)

*Red Alert!* (that was the Radio Times headline *SEVEN *years ago - oh fucking hell)

The red Supreme Dalek is back! The coolest Dalek known to exist will be laying to rest the Fisherprice iDalek 'paradigm' and basically being awesome in general.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 15, 2015)

I think you'll find that the coolest looking Daleks were the Imperial Daleks, who unlike their lesser iterations held faith with Davros:







now thats a fuckin dalek with style


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## Steel Icarus (Aug 15, 2015)

I've kind of watched it light-heartedly for some time now, without much up or down. Tennant's Doctor and attendant storylines were followable and heart-rending. Smith did a good job, much better than I expected from first impressions, and Capaldi is ace...but I don't like the writing nearly as much these days. That said Clara is swoony beyond all reason which goes a long way. And there are Zygons in the new series, hopefully a bit more will be done with them that the last time they appeared.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 15, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Tennant's Doctor and attendant storylines were followable and heart-rending.


You should see his Hamlet m8. I tell you, the grit, it was in my eye. Captain Picard plays the usurping uncle as well. Beeb adapt. Seek it. Its amazing, the way he delivers the soliloquy (never did work out the plural of that) is just something else. Tennant may have looked young as a doctor but he was and is a stage seasoned man.


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## kabbes (Aug 15, 2015)

S☼I said:


> I've kind of watched it light-heartedly for some time now, without much up or down. Tennant's Doctor and attendant storylines were followable and heart-rending. Smith did a good job, much better than I expected from first impressions, and Capaldi is ace...but I don't like the writing nearly as much these days. That said Clara is swoony beyond all reason which goes a long way. And there are Zygons in the new series, hopefully a bit more will be done with them that the last time they appeared.


Would have liked a lot except for the fact that Clara is the worst thing ever.


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## Pingu (Aug 15, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Would have liked a lot except for the fact that Clara is the worst thing ever.





she is schwingtastic and i like the way she and the dr bounce off each other.good to have a companion with their own personality again


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## kabbes (Aug 15, 2015)

Whatever the theoretical benefits of her as a character, the actor utterly fails to pull them off, resulting in a melodramatic, irritating and tedious mess.


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## belboid (Aug 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> You should see his Hamlet m8. I tell you, the grit, it was in my eye. Captain Picard plays the usurping uncle as well. Beeb adapt. Seek it. Its amazing, the way he delivers the soliloquy (never did work out the plural of that) is just something else. Tennant may have looked young as a doctor but he was and is a stage seasoned man.


RSC adapt, as later filmed by the Beeb. It is brilliant whoever adapted it, anyway


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## DotCommunist (Sep 3, 2015)

just over two weeks to go now. Two weeks on saturday. Alex Kingston is coming back for the christmas special apparently, which I'm fine with although there appears to be moaning on the fan sites from the antriver song mentals.


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## Santino (Sep 3, 2015)

Ah, The Ant River Song Mentals - great band. I saw them supporting Yurts in '04. I'd never seen a combo with THREE accordionists before.


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## 8den (Sep 4, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Would have liked a lot except for the fact that Clara is the worst thing ever.



Does nobody remember Bonnie Langford.


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## Artaxerxes (Sep 4, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Whatever the theoretical benefits of her as a character, the actor utterly fails to pull them off, resulting in a melodramatic, irritating and tedious mess.



Honestly, its the writing and directing thats doing this. I thought it was an acting issue for a long time but its not, when they stop writing characters moon-eyed over the Doctor and telling us how wonderful he is the series picks up a hell of a lot. Its why Donna has been the best companion since the series was brought back, there was none of that fluttering eyelashes nonsense.

It also doesn't help the team cannot bring themselves to write out a character or leave them ignored for a season or two. They always just do one more episode until the character is wrung out and has stayed well beyond their welcome.


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## 8den (Sep 4, 2015)

Perhaps Steven Moffat can stop having companions who are vital weaving parts of the new doctors arc (ie the parents of his wife, some time travelling good luck charm etc)


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 11, 2015)

A brief 'prologue' has appeared on t'iplayer. Seems to be set on the same planet as that little mini-episode they did with Paul McGann.

BBC iPlayer  - Doctor Who - New Series Prologue


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 11, 2015)

8den said:


> Perhaps Steven Moffat can stop having companions who are vital weaving parts of the new doctors arc (ie the parents of his wife, some time travelling good luck charm etc)



Thankfully they now seem to have decided to use Clara as an actual character rather than a MacGuffin with the power of speech.


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## Bob_the_lost (Sep 11, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Honestly, its the writing and directing thats doing this. I thought it was an acting issue for a long time but its not, when they stop writing characters moon-eyed over the Doctor and telling us how wonderful he is the series picks up a hell of a lot. Its why Donna has been the best companion since the series was brought back, there was none of that fluttering eyelashes nonsense.
> 
> It also doesn't help the team cannot bring themselves to write out a character or leave them ignored for a season or two. They always just do one more episode until the character is wrung out and has stayed well beyond their welcome.


Moffat does that to everything he touches. He's too focused on references to the past and intricate little plot twists and it stifles what he works upon.


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## Artaxerxes (Sep 11, 2015)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Moffat does that to everything he touches. He's too focused on references to the past and intricate little plot twists and it stifles what he works upon.



Davies did it as well tbf, Rose was terrible.


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## ginger_syn (Sep 12, 2015)

The episode or the character?


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## 8den (Sep 12, 2015)

The rose thing was spread out of years. Right from the get go Oswald was supposed be amazing. 

Also I'm tired of the companions being as smart and witty and intelligent as the 900 year old space wizard with the magic box.


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## discobastard (Sep 12, 2015)

'Teenage Davros'.  Good name for a band..


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## kabbes (Sep 13, 2015)

8den said:


> Also I'm tired of the companions being as smart and witty and intelligent as the 900 year old space wizard with the magic box.


Another reason why Donna was best.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2015)

the point about regeneration is how radically it rewires the brain. Memories still there but you aren't master of it. Talking of which The Master may look like he's the more capable time lord but his regenerations and body swaps lead him to hubris and a peculiar type of megolomaniac insanity.

Lets not forget that the Doctor is technically slightly brain damaged. Nicking that type 50 TARDIS and the forced nature of the psychological/empathic bond that was formed ravaged his brain properly and fried the TARDIS chameleon circuit. Hence why he calls susan his grand daughter. He's not quite all there.


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## 8den (Sep 13, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Another reason why Donna was best.




Less bad.


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## SE25 (Sep 14, 2015)

Capaldi is a chap. Apparently he's going to be quite a bit 'lighter' in this series so those turned off by the darker plots might be happy


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 14, 2015)

SE25 said:


> Capaldi is a chap. Apparently he's going to be quite a bit 'lighter' in this series so those turned off by the darker plots might be happy



The 'light hearted' episodes last season were crap though. Magic trees and gold-powered spaceships ffs.


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## SE25 (Sep 14, 2015)

yeah but that's just Moffat being a useless up himself cunt. I like dark Who (that thing in the finale where the dead people had a certain fear 



Spoiler



of being cremated


 was dark as fuck) but the great British public aren't so sure apparently.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 14, 2015)

load of bollocks, who both old and new has always run with some pretty dark themes and loves to play the dilemma of the gunless good man driven to gross violence in the name of good. Universes vilest liberal.


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 14, 2015)

SE25 said:


> yeah but that's just Moffat being a useless up himself cunt. I like dark Who (that thing in the finale where the dead people had a certain fear
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah that was impressively grim. Part two dropped the ball completely though. A stirring speech convinces all the emotionless reanimated corpses to help save mankind? Fuck off


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## ginger_syn (Sep 15, 2015)

To be fair the speech was just window dressing,it was missy's do- hickey that made them do what Danny wanted.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 15, 2015)

the speech totally over egged it. Mr Pink desrved to go out better. And I'm not counting gohst pink saviour of an iraqi kid either, that bit was also egging it


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 15, 2015)

Oh I'd forgotten about the wee kid returning from the afterlife.

Into Clara's house. Some strange woman he's never met. Maybe drop him off back in Afghanistan next time? Unless you've already shot the rest of his family and blown up his house that is.

You're supposed to feel bad when you murder children. There's not supposed to be a get out of jail free card for that.


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 15, 2015)

Jenna Coleman has quit the show apparently, so this series will be her last


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 15, 2015)

8den said:


> The rose thing was spread out of years. x.


You what? She was the bad wolf arc for the first series.


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## SE25 (Sep 15, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Jenna Coleman has quit the show apparently, so this series will be her last



source?


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## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You what? She was the bad wolf arc for the first series.



But the bad wolf thing was as an echo from Rose looking into the heart of the TARDIS, it's not like Clara being the impossible Girl who knows every doctor


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 16, 2015)

SE25 said:


> source?



Doctor Who star Jenna Coleman travels back to 19th Century


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

8den said:


> But the bad wolf thing was as an echo from Rose looking into the heart of the TARDIS, it's not like Clara being the impossible Girl who knows every doctor


It was still the assistant being the arc of the series, but yes Clara and the crack girl are worse. I just want a normal assistant.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 16, 2015)

I'd also quite like a male assistant too.

Bring back Jamie.  He needed a better ending.


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## PursuedByBears (Sep 16, 2015)

I'm really struggling to get excited about the new series starting on Saturday. I thought Capaldi would be a great Doctor but last series I found his performance quite detached and the plots and scripts pretty meh.   Now from what I've seen of the coming series there's more of the stuff that annoys me coming back - Missy, Osgood etc, but nothing that makes me go wow.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I'd also quite like a male assistant too.
> 
> Bring back Jamie.  He needed a better ending.


Yeah, I'm sick of love intrest in a series where it shouldn't exist, leave that shit to fan fiction. Men and women can be friends without wanting to bone each other you know. They have had loads of people through the doors that would have made great and interesting long term assistants, but no, it has to be a twenty year old girl who fawns over the doctor and is the key to the universe .


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## Santino (Sep 16, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah, I'm sick of love intrest in a series where it shouldn't exist, leave that shit to fan fiction. Men and women can be friends without wanting to bone each other you know. They have had loads of people through the doors that would have made great and interesting long term assistants, but no, it has to be a twenty year old girl who fawns over the doctor and is the key to the universe .


 Stop watching it.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

Santino said:


> Stop watching it.


Why?


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## Santino (Sep 16, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why?


To put us out of our misery.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

Santino said:


> To put us out of our misery.


Why are you miserable? Because I don't think all the assistants should be young girls who fawn over the doctor and are always the series arc?


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## belboid (Sep 16, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why are you miserable? Because I don't think all the assistants should be young girls who fawn over the doctor and are always the series arc?


because you're a tedious arse on this thread who only ever posts about how shit it is now


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

belboid said:


> because you're a tedious arse on this thread who only ever posts about how shit it is now


Aw diddums, we can't discuss the series then? Negative points   
I was simply agreeing with another poster that I would like to see the assistants be something other than 20 year old girls that fall in love with the doctor and are a key element to the plot instead of a random pick up. Do you not agree? . . . and If you look back at my posts for the last year they have all been pretty positive actually. Stop being a nob, it's only a TV show. If I wasn't interested in it I wouldn't watch it, and I wouldn't care about plot points that I thought could improve it. . .


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## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

belboid said:


> because you're a tedious arse on this thread who only ever posts about how shit it is now


So?

I've my Halloween costume sorted I'm going as the 9th Doctor, leather coat boots and correct sonic screwdriver. Debating as to whether I should dye my hair brown


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

bing back River Song


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## belboid (Sep 16, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Aw diddums, we can't discuss the series then? Negative points
> I was simply agreeing with another poster that I would like to see the assistants be something other than 20 year old girls that fall in love with the doctor and are a key element to the plot instead of a random pick up. Do you not agree? . . . and If you look back at my posts for the last year they have all been pretty positive actually. Stop being a nob, it's only a TV show. If I wasn't interested in it I wouldn't watch it, and I wouldn't care about plot points that I thought could improve it. . .


you dont discuss tho, you just whine. You do, of course, have every right to be a tedious arse, its just a shame you cant make any interesting or novel points while whining. In fact, one could almost assume you only watch so you can whine.


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## Santino (Sep 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> bing back River Song


They will, but retrospectively, in David Tennant's final series.


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## Santino (Sep 16, 2015)

Looking at the episode titles, it seems like most of the series will be made up of two-part stories:



Spoiler: episode titles



The Magician's Apprentice
The Witch's Familiar
Under the Lake
Before the Flood
The Girl Who Died
The Woman Who Lived
The Zygon Invasion
The Zygon Inversion
Sleep No More
Face the Raven
Heaven Sent
Hell Bent


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

oh great the zygons again, shape shifting alien mimics whose natural form makes them look like an esoteric sex toy. Who keeps asking for these cunts.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

and face the raven had better not be the obligatory history one where he meets Edgar Allan Poe.

tricky, them history eps. For every winning one like Vampires of Venice thares its shitty counterpart like the robin hood one


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## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> bing back River Song



No she was a nice idea and then Moffat flogged it, boiled it and then minced it before making horse burgers out it


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## Santino (Sep 16, 2015)

Anyway, she's back for Christmas.


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## SE25 (Sep 16, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Doctor Who star Jenna Coleman travels back to 19th Century



I swear the Mirror have said this before... and were completely wrong

We'll see though, I imagine Moffat might want an older assistant for Capaldi eventually


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

Santino said:


> Anyway, she's back for Christmas.


be interesting to see where she is in the time stream when meeting capaldi. Before or after prison break/bangin matt smith


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

belboid said:


> you dont discuss tho, you just whine. You do, of course, have every right to be a tedious arse, its just a shame you cant make any interesting or novel points while whining. In fact, one could almost assume you only watch so you can whine.


Do I? I have been very positive about Capaldi. I think there is really only this one point, and yes it's not original, but that's mostly because I was prompted by another poster and was simply agreeing with him.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

8den said:


> No she was a nice idea and then Moffat flogged it, boiled it and then minced it before making horse burgers out it


Indeed. I think it was a great idea that could have popped up now and then to tantalize and tease the audience. They kind of blew it all in one big go.  I guess they had to get some sort of contract in place though, would be a bit hard to have her just pop up now and then in a series. 

Still, it was a fun idea that I wanted to see more of, but then there was so much that I just wanted the whole thing to vanish.


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## danny la rouge (Sep 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Lets not forget that the Doctor is technically slightly brain damaged. Nicking that type 50 TARDIS and the forced nature of the psychological/empathic bond that was formed ravaged his brain properly and fried the TARDIS chameleon circuit. Hence why he calls susan his grand daughter. He's not quite all there.


I applaud your valiant revisionism. But was Susan's brain fried, too? 

Though I like the idea of the Doctor as akin to an ageing acid casualty: an outer space Ozzy Osbourne; a Keith Richards of the Cosmos.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 16, 2015)

Ok so what so far has been the worst Capaldi episode?

It's a toss up between  a bunch of episodes  but  for me  Kill the moon is  the most facepalm worthy


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

yeah I didn't even watch that one to conclusion, and thats highly unlike me. Best so far imo is monsters from flatland and special props goes out for managing to do a good christmas episode for the first time in living memory.

I enjoyed it at the time for its rompy kids stuff lols but in retrospect that robin hood one was proper shit weren't it


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Ok so what so far has been the worst Capaldi episode?
> 
> It's a toss up between  a bunch of episodes  but  for me  Kill the moon is  the most facepalm worthy



Yeah, that was pretty bad, oh it had to lay another egg so that there was still a moon. Oh god. Though I have to say, as stupid as it was, and as much as I facepalmed, it wasn't completely unenjoyable. 
. . . but shit on toast, yes.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 16, 2015)

I was fine with most of the robin hood one  but  the ending was shit.  i was kinda hoping  the aliens reserching robin hood accidentally  cvreate  robin hood  by their actions and leaking of data	creating a predestination thing.  but no.

also the  nice   troughton robin hood picture  got  geek bonus poionts


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 16, 2015)

SE25 said:


> I swear the Mirror have said this before... and were completely wrong



Well I think Coleman was planning to leave after series 8 but changed her mind late in the day, so an extra scene was bolted on to the end of the christmas special where her growing old without the doctor had all been a dream.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

yeah she was asked pretty pls? and went 'fuck it blad, one more series for the craic'

it did make that ending seem a bit weird. One too many 'wake up, this is the real world not the dream' moments


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 16, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Ok so what so far has been the worst Capaldi episode?
> 
> It's a toss up between  a bunch of episodes  but  for me  Kill the moon is  the most facepalm worthy



The Robin Hood one was the only episode with no redeeming features at all IMO. A couple of episodes crossed the line from OK to awful right at the end, particularly the magic trees one where the kid's missing sister had been hiding behind a shrub all along


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## kabbes (Sep 16, 2015)

The Capaldi era has actually put me off Who somewhat.  I was ecstatic when he got the part but something just isn't right.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

kabbes said:


> The Capaldi era has actually put me off Who somewhat.  I was ecstatic when he got the part but something just isn't right.


yeah- YOU


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## kabbes (Sep 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah- YOU


I am a beacon of truth


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## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Ok so what so far has been the worst Capaldi episode?
> 
> It's a toss up between  a bunch of episodes  but  for me  Kill the moon is  the most facepalm worthy



Robinhood, magic forest, kill the moon, that Victorian Dinosaur shite, and the finale. 

The Heist, & Flatline were the best


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## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

kabbes said:


> The Capaldi era has actually put me off Who somewhat.  I was ecstatic when he got the part but something just isn't right.



I think he's been poorly served with some naff scripts and he's yet to find his voice.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

the one with the t-rex was ace you fucking philistine


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## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the one with the t-rex was ace you fucking philistine



It just reminded me of Dinosaurs on a space ship. And the dimensions of the Rex, Big Ben and the TARDIS were all wrong there's no T Rex bigger than Big Ben and no way one could swallow a police box whole


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I was fine with most of the robin hood one  but  the ending was shit.  i was kinda hoping  the aliens reserching robin hood accidentally  cvreate  robin hood  by their actions and leaking of data	creating a predestination thing.  but no.


Yes that would have been good.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

oh yeah I'd forgotten the heist. That was a proper good one because it played with both time travel and had a very different narrative structure to a standard episode.


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## CNT36 (Sep 16, 2015)

The beginning with the phone was  the best intro to an episode in years.


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## Gromit (Sep 16, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Ok so what so far has been the worst Capaldi episode?
> 
> It's a toss up between  a bunch of episodes  but  for me  Kill the moon is  the most facepalm worthy



The worst Capaldi episode? Every episode apart from the The Fires of Pompeii.


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## SE25 (Sep 16, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Ok so what so far has been the worst Capaldi episode?
> 
> It's a toss up between  a bunch of episodes  but  for me  Kill the moon is  the most facepalm worthy



The tree one was pretty wank


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## SE25 (Sep 16, 2015)

8den said:


> Robinhood, magic forest, kill the moon, that Victorian Dinosaur shite, and the finale.
> 
> The Heist, & Flatline were the best



agreed, they were both great, especially The Heist


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## prunus (Sep 16, 2015)

SE25 said:


> I swear the Mirror have said this before... and were completely wrong
> 
> We'll see though, I imagine Moffat might want an older assistant for Capaldi eventually



Guardian has it too

Jenna Coleman 'quits Doctor Who' for new role as Queen Victoria

Might just be mediacircusing the mirror of course...


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## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

The tree was was fucking daft


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

it was pretty stupid but what was that kids nickname? the one we all know should have become a companion? pukes a lot, girl.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2015)

she made it on the comedy front.


----------



## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

According to the Mary Sue River will be back for the Christmas Special.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 16, 2015)

Bring back K9 then there would be no need for these inferior human companions.
Robot companions are the way foward. Although some people are trying to ban them.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Bring back K9 then there would be no need for these inferior human companions.
> Robot companions are the way foward. Although some people are trying to ban them.


CoughkamelionCough


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> CoughkamelionCough


I loved the idea of kamelion, and at the time wanted to see much more of him. He did only two episodes or something right?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 16, 2015)

yeah the prop was  apparently a nightmare


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 16, 2015)

ha!

*The Curse of Kamelion?*
In their tongue-in-cheek reference book _Doctor Who: The Completely Useless Encyclopedia_ (1996), Chris Howarth and Steve Lyons write that "An examination of Kamelion’s history reveals the possible existence of a curse of _Poltergeist_ proportions. Both Terence Dudley and Peter Grimwade, who scripted the robot companion’s appearances, have died. So too have Kamelion’s human alter-egos, Gerald Flood, and Dallas Adams, who played his 'Howard Foster' form for most of 'Planet of Fire'. To say nothing of Kamelion’s software designer, Mike Power, who was killed shortly after the decision was taken to include the robot in the series. Eric Pringle should thank his lucky stars that a Kamelion sequence was edited out of 'The Awakening' and Missing Adventure scribe Craig Hinton should start worrying."[4] Hinton – who penned the Missing Adventure _The Crystal Bucephalus_, which featured Kamelion prominently – later died of a heart attack, at the age of 42, in 2006.[5]


----------



## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

How about a companion who isn't an attractive twenty something female from 21st London


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 16, 2015)

8den said:


> How about a companion who isn't an attractive twenty something female from 21st London



Clara is from Blackpool.


----------



## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Clara is from Blackpool.



And Pond is technically Scottish but you know what I mean. They all end up living in London


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 16, 2015)

8den said:


> And Pond is technically Scottish but you know what I mean. They all end up living in London



Amy and Rory end up living in New York.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 16, 2015)

And Rose ends up living in a parallel universe.


----------



## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Amy and Rory end up living in New York.



But they lived in London for a bit. 

Look he's got the whole of time and space to explore but all his companions are attractive twenty something from a small geographical area and a very narrow window in time.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2015)

Stop being pedantic.  You know what 8den means.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 16, 2015)

8den said:


> But they lived in London for a bit.
> 
> Look he's got the whole of time and space to explore but all his companions are attractive twenty something from a small geographical area and a very narrow window in time.



The ones we know of and get to share the adventures of because they are relevant to us.

He's traveled with aliens too (Jack Harkness for one). We've been told about it but those shows get shown on their home planet and not ours.


----------



## 8den (Sep 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> The ones we know of and get to share the adventures of because they are relevant to us.
> 
> He's traveled with aliens too (Jack Harkness for one). We've been told about it but those shows get shown on their home planet and not ours.



God you're an idiot


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 16, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Stop being pedantic.  You know what 8den means.



I'm being pedantic? He's the one picking holes in the plot of a TV show about an alien who travels through time in a phone box.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'm being pedantic? He's the one picking holes in the plot of a TV show about an alien who travels through time in a phone box.


 Police box!!!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 16, 2015)

They still have them blue police boxes in Glasgow. First time I saw one I couldn't understand why nobody else was freaking out about the fact there was a TARDIS outside Waterstones.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 16, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> ha!
> 
> *The Curse of Kamelion?*
> In their tongue-in-cheek reference book _Doctor Who: The Completely Useless Encyclopedia_ (1996), Chris Howarth and Steve Lyons write that "An examination of Kamelion’s history reveals the possible existence of a curse of _Poltergeist_ proportions. Both Terence Dudley and Peter Grimwade, who scripted the robot companion’s appearances, have died. So too have Kamelion’s human alter-egos, Gerald Flood, and Dallas Adams, who played his 'Howard Foster' form for most of 'Planet of Fire'. To say nothing of Kamelion’s software designer, Mike Power, who was killed shortly after the decision was taken to include the robot in the series. Eric Pringle should thank his lucky stars that a Kamelion sequence was edited out of 'The Awakening' and Missing Adventure scribe Craig Hinton should start worrying."[4] Hinton – who penned the Missing Adventure _The Crystal Bucephalus_, which featured Kamelion prominently – later died of a heart attack, at the age of 42, in 2006.[5]


Pity about Hinton I quite enjoyed that book when I was a kid. It was about a time travelling restaurant. Customers went to a booth that transported them to a restaurant of their choice from a list of the best in history. The past couldn't be permanently altered though as they had a reduced "reality quotient". Space mafia bosses, future religions and the restaurant's owner's universe threatening love life cause a bit of trouble. Kamelion has quite a large part in it. I was under 10 when I read it mind.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 17, 2015)

I still have it. It's weird.  The whole twist to what the restaurant is really for  is  a bit crazy.  

Mind you i still liked it

in genral i found the missing adventures to be superior  to the new adventures


----------



## Pingu (Sep 17, 2015)

Jenna Coleman 'quits Doctor Who after landing major new role'


I kinda like her as the companion.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 17, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I still have it. It's weird.  The whole twist to what the restaurant is really for  is  a bit crazy.
> 
> Mind you i still liked it
> 
> in genral i found the missing adventures to be superior  to the new adventures


Yeah, I do as well.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 18, 2015)

I was just reading a list ranking every story in terms of how the author of the blog post rates them and came across this which must now be sowlnloaded:

*40) Inferno (1970) - *The Doctor visits a mirror universe ruled by fascists, and realizes our world is doomed to destruction. Despite dodgy “Primord” monsters, it’s an intense horrifying ride.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 18, 2015)

Recently watched this on the horror channel and it can be intense in places,my granddaughter found a couple of scenes quite scary but thought the monsters were funny.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 18, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I applaud your valiant revisionism. But was Susan's brain fried, too?
> 
> Though I like the idea of the Doctor as akin to an ageing acid casualty: an outer space Ozzy Osbourne; a Keith Richards of the Cosmos.



More of a Syd Barrett in the case of Capaldi's Doctor.


----------



## belboid (Sep 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> More of a Syd Barrett in the case of Capaldi's Doctor.


except he hasn't left after one series...


----------



## 8115 (Sep 19, 2015)

Half an hour


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2015)

yaaaay


----------



## 8115 (Sep 19, 2015)

Pointless Celebrities is so much shitter than normal Pointless.


----------



## prunus (Sep 19, 2015)

8115 said:


> Pointless Celebrities is so much shitter than normal Pointless.



Which is quite an achievement.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 19, 2015)

That was better than I was expecting


----------



## 8115 (Sep 19, 2015)

I haven't got much to say about it really.  Nothing much to get excited about.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 19, 2015)

What did we think of that then? 

Great pre-title opening.

Ridiculous bit with the guitar.

What has Dale Winton done to his hair? (obv watching whatever is on after it atm... train of thought, sorry)

We're expecting Clara to be gone this season, could that be it? I really fucking hope so. None of this long, drawn out 2 episode long tearful goodbye bullshit (I'm looking at you, Ponds).


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 19, 2015)

Agree about the guitar bit, i say it was better than i expected, but tbh i really wasnt expecting much


----------



## 8115 (Sep 19, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> What did we think of that then?
> 
> Great pre-title opening.
> 
> ...


Ponds deserved a 2 episode goodbye.  Clara doesn't.  Although, I didn't hate her this time round.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2015)

A great start! very packed indeed with stuff

liked

-slow davros reveal, re visage. I know *I *know he looks grim but with that tension build up it was still creepy. Ironically as time goes on and the effects get better he looks more hale than he did when he faced T baker in the day and was greenish.

- Clara switches from teacher mode to hardass UNIT special advisor in two epic minutes.

- I recognize the lady analyst from somewhere- Bugs?

-Heavy metal and shades.

- Clifhanger!


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2015)

- time bracelets again


----------



## Santino (Sep 19, 2015)

1138AD - Star Wars reference.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2015)

davros's snake man is not as scary as it thinks it is but I'm sure it gave the kidz a fright, smaller ones

Disapointing lack of my favourite Dalek livery, the white with gold studs. Obviously Imperial Daleks are way in the past by now but it would have been nice to have Davros flanked by a pair as his leal bodyguards

other than those niggles, I am well pleased.


----------



## youngian (Sep 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> - I recognize the lady analyst from somewhere- Bugs?



Jay Griffiths, she was Roz in Bugs.

Skaro looked a bit retro 60s sci fi.


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I was just reading a list ranking every story in terms of how the author of the blog post rates them and came across this which must now be sowlnloaded:
> 
> *40) Inferno (1970) - *The Doctor visits a mirror universe ruled by fascists, and realizes our world is doomed to destruction. Despite dodgy “Primord” monsters, it’s an intense horrifying ride.



One of my favourite Classic Who stories. It's great.

On tonight I found it very disjointed. I found the guitar playing really cringey but it's set up for I hope, a better second half. Withholding judgement.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 19, 2015)

The scene is 1183 AD.

Clara: "How will we find The Doctor?"
Missy: "Look for an anachronism, a tiny anachronism"

*The Doctor styles it out playing electric guitar atop a tank*

Glorious.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2015)

thought so youngian , she was a tv stalwart back in the day, familiar face

Oh I also liked the bits with the sisters of mercy (or whatever they are called), harks back to the pre-50th ep short where mgann is turned into hurt by them

Missy's three statements one of which is a lie


yes a barnstormer of an opening


----------



## cesare (Sep 19, 2015)

Better start to the series than the last one.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The scene is 1183 AD.
> 
> Clara: "How will we find The Doctor?"
> Missy: "Look for an anachronism, a tiny anachronism"
> ...


I just hope this and the Doof soundwagon from Mad Max Fury Road signal an age where it is once again acceptable to go a bit metal in sci fi


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 19, 2015)

Was that a bit of Nick Cave in the cantina scene early on? The whole soundtrack was a bit more metallic and clangy than the usual strings.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I applaud your valiant revisionism. But was Susan's brain fried, too?
> 
> Though I like the idea of the Doctor as akin to an ageing acid casualty: an outer space Ozzy Osbourne; a Keith Richards of the Cosmos.


Well he opened the show off his tits on a tank and giving it big licks on the gitfox so maybe the thesis has legs


----------



## prunus (Sep 19, 2015)

I thought that was pretty damn good really. 

Enjoyed the 'pretty woman' and 'hey Micky/Missy' riffs.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 19, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The scene is 1183 AD.


It's 1138


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 19, 2015)

S☼I said:


> It's 1138



timey-wimey etc


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 19, 2015)

youngian said:


> Jay Griffiths, she was Roz in Bugs.
> 
> Skaro looked a bit retro 60s sci fi.


70's. They pretty much recreated the war from what was seen/hinted at in Genesis of the Daleks. The biplane with lasers, bows and arrows alongside a high tech scanner etc. As soon as he asked the name there was only one person it could be.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 19, 2015)

Pun central tonight

Hand Mines
Axe fight
Fish Tank
Hey Missy

Although i have to admit to liking the hand mines. Also liked the Colony. A snake version of Legion (we are many). Loved the appearance of Tom Baker.

Whoever did the music tonight was a bit of a Van Halen fan i noticed. A nod to Eruption and their verison of Pretty woman.
Overall not a bad episode... if slightly predictable.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 19, 2015)

I enjoyed that. The guitar/tank bit was gloriously silly.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 20, 2015)

It was a good opening episode,watched it with the grandkids who thought it was cool and who after it finished acted out their own doctor who stories.I just enjoyed it very much and I'm looking forward to next week.


----------



## 8den (Sep 20, 2015)

I got over the tank bit and liked the episode, Missys scenery munching villainy is way OTT


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 20, 2015)

Was alright - but annoyed that they're still going with the super loud, intrusive and shit background music.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 20, 2015)

Can't be doing with Missy and the tank bit was just stupid.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 20, 2015)

I, errrrr, rather like Missy


----------



## 8den (Sep 20, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I, errrrr, rather like Missy


Admit it you fancy her.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 20, 2015)

8den said:


> Admit it you fancy her.


Maybe


----------



## belboid (Sep 20, 2015)

Missy was great, the axe battle (surely, not axe fight) was funny but went on too long, glad they're getting the obligatory dalek episode out of the way quickly. And a decent story. Can't complain too much about that.


----------



## 8den (Sep 20, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Maybe



Never confuse crazy with cute son.


----------



## Knotted (Sep 20, 2015)

Good god why do I watch this shit? Possibly the worst writing on TV. Ghastly production too. Painful to watch.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 20, 2015)

atomic suplex, someones just posted for you


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 20, 2015)

on some dark corner of of the internet, Awesome Wells is feverishly denouncing the shitness of i all too


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 20, 2015)

And where is ATOMIC SUPLEX ?

Sorry didn't see the post above doh


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 20, 2015)

y'know i thought Missy was fucking dreadful in the cyberman thing.  It was another nail in the coffin of the master.  This time however I felt she actually worked quite well as  a new master.

The Master has  been  a little unstable but the complete loonspuddery thing  was only ever really the reincarnated Simm master. 

Her first portrayal was far  too unstable. It just felt cartoonish.  This one on the other hand feels more like someone who is in control and just chooses to be eccentric. Very much the mirror of the doctor. In fact that whole introduction scene feels like a doctor scene. The timelord interrupts the person in charge and  starts just talking at them, this torrent of information is a mix of non sequiturs, random observations and also of course a comment or two that shows off the timelords intelligence and hints that  all the performance was just there to dick with the opponent. I was almost expecting her to pull out a bag of jelly babies.
This is of course nicely countered with the bit where she kills those people. The whole sherlock-esqe  giving a persons back story from just looking at them is a nice way to show that the intellect is behind the actions  rather than just anger or crazyness.  I think it makes her more of an interesting character.

I always like it when the master is played as being (as near as possible while still somehow always loosing) just as intelligent, capable and charismatic as the doctor. It makes for a very enjoyable Villain and a perfect foil for the doctor. 

This performance felt like a significant step in the right direction. I particularly liked how all her crazy stunts were all identified in show as as being things that could be done with established timelord or similar tech ( telepathic circuits for the big head as  it's said to be a mental projection and  using temporal mechanics to hold the planes in place) It helps bring back the flavour of science fiction rather than just having it be science magic. The same  with the doc.  He actually uses his sonic screwdriver* TO MANIPULATE SOUND!* what the actual fuck?

Also isn't it nice to see the show start to properly reference classic who.  Apart from one or two nice moments a most of new who has felt like a alternate universe where everything in the classic series may or may not have happened (yeah timewar i know)
And wasn't it nice to see a Davros/Dalek episode  which wasn't  complete and utter horse shit (yes i know there have been a few  but man the batting averages are abysmal)

While it still had some of the annoying new who tropes it really felt  like this episode was trying to address a lot of the issues i have with new who.

I wonder if they manage to compleatly shit their pants with part two.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 20, 2015)

I kept nodding off  but from what I remember it was good, I'll watch it again tonight


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 20, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I wonder if they manage to compleatly shit their pants with part two.


They always do. Since New Who began can anyone think of a second part better than the first? Maybe Parting of the ways even with the disappointing Bad Wolf reveal .


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 20, 2015)

The Family of Blood?


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 20, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> The Family of Blood?


Good call.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 21, 2015)

It was a bit all over the place, no?  It'll either be good or crap only in retrospect once we have part 2.  For now, I remain ambivalent.  Although I do like Missy.


----------



## SE25 (Sep 21, 2015)

thought that episode was fucking decent personally, maybe Capaldi's best so far. Nice cliffhanger to leave it on


----------



## kabbes (Sep 21, 2015)

Something still doesn't ring true about Capaldi himself though.  I just don't get the feels that he believes in the fiction.  Like he actually doesn't like scifi or something.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 21, 2015)

Those tags, though


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 21, 2015)

I really liked it, but my kid was less impressed, just at that age when teen stuff is more important though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 21, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Something still doesn't ring true about Capaldi himself though.  I just don't get the feels that he believes in the fiction.  Like he actually doesn't like scifi or something.


he's been a lifelong Who fan.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 21, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> he's been a lifelong Who fan.


Good stuff.

Then I just don't get it.  But it can't just be me, surely?  It's either the writing or the way he plays it, but something just doesn't gel.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 21, 2015)

It blates is just you, everyone else loves him.


----------



## 8den (Sep 21, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Something still doesn't ring true about Capaldi himself though.  I just don't get the feels that he believes in the fiction.  Like he actually doesn't like scifi or something.



This would be This Peter Capaldi
Capaldi has a Secret Doctor Who Fanboy Past

Peter such a teenage doctor who fanboy he wanted to run the Dr Who fan club Capaldi?


----------



## 8den (Sep 21, 2015)

Shakes fist at Dotc


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 21, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Something still doesn't ring true about Capaldi himself though.  I just don't get the feels that he believes in the fiction.  Like he actually doesn't like scifi or something.


Really?

I didn't get that off him at all.  I did get that off of eccleston.  well not  just  the  scifi thing   it  was just   he  didn't  feel like a doctor.  
IT's always  best to give yourself a season or two  with  a new doctor. The first one is always a bit rough. Just  look at   McCoy. Possibly my favorite doctor  with  possibly the worst ever initial run of  episodes.


----------



## Santino (Sep 22, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Good stuff.
> 
> Then I just don't get it.  But it can't just be me, surely?  It's either the writing or the way he plays it, but something just doesn't gel.


Maybe it's just how familiar you are with the actor before they started being Dr Who. It took me until the first Master storyline to like David Tennant, because I'd seem him in other things. But I didn't know Matt Smith at all, and I thought he nailed the part in about 20 minutes.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 22, 2015)

SE25 said:


> thought that episode was fucking decent personally, maybe Capaldi's best so far. Nice cliffhanger to leave it on


Nice to see cliffhangers again and not just wrap it all up in an hour.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 22, 2015)

PursuedByBears said:


> Can't be doing with Missy and the tank bit was just stupid.


I like Missy, and the tank bit was wonderfully eccentric. Showed the doctor in a different light being a show off twat because nobody was looking. All the adventures between the lines.


----------



## 8den (Sep 22, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Nice to see cliffhangers again and not just wrap it all up in an hour.



Who are you and what have you done with AS?


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> davros's snake man is not as scary as it thinks it is but I'm sure it gave the kidz a fright, smaller ones
> 
> Disapointing lack of my favourite Dalek livery, the white with gold studs. Obviously Imperial Daleks are way in the past by now but it would have been nice to have Davros flanked by a pair as his leal bodyguards
> 
> other than those niggles, I am well pleased.



All sorts of Daleks in that & at first I though the snake guy was a Mara?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 22, 2015)

I got the impression it was one of Davros's experiments/creations


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I got the impression it was one of Davros's experiments/creations



Quite a powerful experiment/creation. It can move through time and space.


----------



## prunus (Sep 22, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Quite a powerful experiment/creation. It can move through time and space.



So?  So can I.


----------



## Epona (Sep 22, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Really?
> 
> I didn't get that off him at all.  I did get that off of eccleston.  well not  just  the  scifi thing   it  was just   he  didn't  feel like a doctor.
> IT's always  best to give yourself a season or two  with  a new doctor. The first one is always a bit rough. Just  look at   McCoy. Possibly my favorite doctor  with  possibly the worst ever initial run of  episodes.



I think McCoy seemed bad at the time because the Beeb really didn't want to carry on doing the show, and it was suffering from reduced budget, time, and thought.  But looking back, McCoy was really good in the role, I rate him much higher now than I did at the time.

As to the first episode of this current series?  I thought the plot was very silly, and some of the acting was heading into slapstick/cheap laughs territory.  I still think Capaldi is great though, and I find it appealing that the Doctor now looks a bit older (even though the character is the same age regardless of appearance or age of the actor, but ykwim)


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 22, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Quite a powerful experiment/creation. It can move through time and space.


true that, perhaps it is an agent of another power then. Either that or Davros has levelled his stats and skills up hard since we last saw him and can now create things that pwerful. Which seems unlikely


----------



## Gromit (Sep 22, 2015)

Epona said:


> I think McCoy seemed bad at the time because the Beeb really didn't want to carry on doing the show, and it was suffering from reduced budget, time, and thought.  But looking back, McCoy was really good in the role, I rate him much higher now than I did at the time.
> 
> As to the first episode of this current series?  I thought the plot was very silly, and some of the acting was heading into slapstick/cheap laughs territory.  I still think Capaldi is great though, and I find it appealing that the Doctor now looks a bit older (even though the character is the same age regardless of appearance or age of the actor, but ykwim)



If they are going to use an older Doctor I'd rather him act a older. All that coming in on a tank playing a guitar, well i thought it was Matt Smith at first until the smoke cleared and i remembered it was meant to be Calpaldi (Who looked very uncomfortable / out of place performing the scene).

They covered well by stating that all the Doctor's personalities were being aired at the party but he wasn't doing a good job of channeling past actors imo.


----------



## belboid (Sep 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> If they are going to use an older Doctor I'd rather him act a older.


why?  He's basically the same age as he was when played by Matt Smith



> Calpaldi (Who looked very uncomfortable / out of place performing the scene).


naah, he was loving it


----------



## 8den (Sep 22, 2015)

Who the fuck is uncomfortable riding a take while playing guitar. If I was Capaldi Id demand that photo be used on my obituary


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 22, 2015)

he might wear pertwee's jacket now and then and be looking about the same age but he has none of 3's general stern/dignified demeanour. They've all had something of the trickster/clown about them since the start tho. Troughton and his penny whistle etc etc


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> If they are going to use an older Doctor I'd rather him act a older.


How _should_ people in their 50s act?

[hard stare]


----------



## prunus (Sep 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> How _should_ people in their 50s act?
> 
> [hard stare]



Shades, tank, stratocaster.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> he might wear pertwee's jacket now and then and be looking about the same age but he has none of 3's general stern/dignified demeanour. They've all had something of the trickster/clown about them since the start tho. Troughton and his penny whistle etc etc


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> How _should_ people in their 50s act?
> 
> [hard stare]



Skates and dogs on leads, massive bloody sunglasses.

Salsa dancing while not worrying about pantyliner leaking.

Desperate comb overs.

Jumpers, big thick jumpers that they never take off.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Jumpers, big thick jumpers that they never take off.


It's cold for September.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 22, 2015)

&apos;Doctor Who&apos;s&apos; Peter Capaldi feels at home wherever he lands


----------



## Santino (Sep 22, 2015)

Did anyone recognise where Clara and Missy met? It looked like a piazza in Italy or somewhere.


----------



## 8den (Sep 22, 2015)

Santino said:


> Did anyone recognise where Clara and Missy met? It looked like a piazza in Italy or somewhere.



Probably my hunch would be Portmeirion, given that Doctor Who is shot in Wales, it's kind of bizarre that they've never use it as a location


----------



## belboid (Sep 22, 2015)

Plaza de la Iglesia, Tenerife


----------



## Gromit (Sep 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> How _should_ people in their 50s act?
> 
> [hard stare]



Well for one he'd be sat on the tank (maybe on a folding stool) playing the guitar with an experienced grace. 
Not stood like a strutting peacock and thrashing on it like a schoolboy shouting dude like teenage Bill and Ted fan.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> shouting dude like teenage Bill and Ted fan.


Teenagers don't know who Bill and Ted were!


----------



## Belushi (Sep 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Teenagers don't know who Bill and Ted were!



Innit   That was made when I was a teenager


----------



## Gromit (Sep 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Teenagers don't know who Bill and Ted were!



They did when it was released


----------



## 8den (Sep 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Well for one he'd be sat on the tank (maybe on a folding stool) playing the guitar with an experienced grace.
> Not stood like a strutting peacock and thrashing on it like a schoolboy shouting dude like teenage Bill and Ted fan.



Yeah because people older than Capaldi never do that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> They did when it was released


So, people who were teenagers some decades ago are the folk who still say "dude". 

This is age appropriateness tyranny.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 22, 2015)

Santino said:


> Did anyone recognise where Clara and Missy met? It looked like a piazza in Italy or somewhere.


No idea but I was Curious how she got there so fast without flying.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> So, people who were teenagers some decades ago are the folk who still say "dude".
> 
> This is age appropriateness tyranny.



No he was saying it like the teenagers did back then.


----------



## Belushi (Sep 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> No he was saying it like the teenagers did back then.



Which you'd kind of expect from someone who was young back then.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> No he was saying it like the teenagers did back then.


See, I still say some of the things young people said when I was a young person. Why the feck shouldn't I?

I'm sure I mentioned the time my brother came round when I was playing the Butthole Surfers and he told me I was too old to still be listening to them. What am I supposed to do, talk like someone in their 50s talked when I was a teenager and listen to the music oldies listened to then? (Which would be the music they listened to when they were teenagers!)

No way! (Yes way!)


----------



## Gromit (Sep 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> See, I still say some of the things young people said when I was a young person. Why the feck shouldn't I?



But dude do you still say them in the same manner dude?

Like dude do you still not only say dude but say dude 10 times in the space of 5 minutes dude?
So when i say like a teenage Bill n Ted fan I meant overusing a catchphrase like sicophantic teenage fan.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 22, 2015)

Dude


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> But dude do you still say them in the same manner dude?
> 
> Like dude do you still not only say dude but say dude 10 times in the space of 5 minutes dude?
> So when i say like a teenage Bill n Ted fan I meant overusing a catchphrase like sicophantic teenage fan.


I *never* said dude. Bill and Ted was *so* after my time. 

Dude.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 22, 2015)

I still say dude.


----------



## 8den (Sep 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> But dude do you still say them in the same manner dude?
> 
> Like dude do you still not only say dude but say dude 10 times in the space of 5 minutes dude?
> So when i say like a teenage Bill n Ted fan I meant overusing a catchphrase like sicophantic teenage fan.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 22, 2015)

emanymton said:


> No idea but I was Curious how she got there so fast without flying.


She did fly, missy's cleared airspace for her.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 22, 2015)

ginger_syn 14124334 said:
			
		

> She did fly, missy's cleared airspace for her.


Must have missed that bit.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 22, 2015)

She mentions it shortly after the daft ballon head thing.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 23, 2015)

OK, I'm gonna force myself to watch a couple of episodes from last year tmoz. Must be up to date before his Supreme Red Dalekiness reappears


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 23, 2015)

Hold on. Who was driving the tank?


----------



## belboid (Sep 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Hold on. Who was driving the tank?


Fish


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> Fish


I thought that was just a joke?  Fish can't drive tanks.

I'm going to watch again.  I'll be looking for where the guitar amp is, too.  And if there's no generator, I'll be asking why.


----------



## belboid (Sep 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I thought that was just a joke?  Fish can't drive tanks.


Yes he can!



> I'm going to watch again.  I'll be looking for where the guitar amp is, too.  And if there's no generator, I'll be asking why.


could have been the Super Furry Animals' tank.  It is all filmed near them...


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> Yes he can!


Ah, Derek Dick.  That's OK then.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> Plaza de la Iglesia, Tenerife



I thought it looked Canarian! The Skaro surfaces were filmed in neighbouring Fuerteventura, apparently.


----------



## belboid (Sep 23, 2015)

8den said:


> Probably my hunch would be Portmeirion, given that Doctor Who is shot in Wales, it's kind of bizarre that they've never use it as a location


The Masque of Mandragora

Quite a while ago now, I suppose. They could probably get away with using it again by now


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I thought that was just a joke?  Fish can't drive tanks.
> 
> I'm going to watch again.  I'll be looking for where the guitar amp is, too.  And if there's no generator, I'll be asking why.


The amps clearly on display. Do.you really think a chap who can fix spaceships, travel in time and alsorts of "indistinguishable from magic" shit can't get a driverless ranks running or a small generator or super space battery to run his quite small amp? The generator could simply be inside the tank.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2015)

yeah he just waved his sonic screwdriver which is nothing like a magic wand at the tank


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah he just waved his sonic screwdriver which is nothing like a magic wand at the tank


Which if true would be a massive continuity error.


----------



## 8den (Sep 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> The Masque of Mandragora
> 
> Quite a while ago now, I suppose. They could probably get away with using it again by now



Yeah they could totalling get away with it. If they're flying to Tenerife for random missy scenes they don't need to bother with the village


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 23, 2015)

He'd clearly just plugged the amp into the cigarette lighter inside the tank.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2015)

thats odd you know- even in the days when everyone smoked everywhere- people on food production lines puffing away etc, the Doctor never did. Even when it would have still been socially acceptable. Even Gandalf has a toot or three on the pipe ffs.


----------



## belboid (Sep 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> thats odd you know- even in the days when everyone smoked everywhere- people on food production lines puffing away etc, the Doctor never did. Even when it would have still been socially acceptable. Even Gandalf has a toot or three on the pipe ffs.


I dont recall them lighting up on Blue Peter.  Or any other show aimed at children.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> I dont recall them lighting up on Blue Peter.  Or any other show aimed at children.


surely someone must have smoked on Doctor Who at some point in the golden era? If not the upstanding gallifreyan himself, or a companion. maybe a redshirt type character.

Everyone smoked in the 60s and 70s. Even toddlers. I've seen the films and progs of the era


----------



## belboid (Sep 23, 2015)

there you go

Some of the crew had fags on in Resurrection of the Daleks, and the Master also liked the odd cigar, apparently


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 24, 2015)

Terrific opening scene I thought, went a bit everywhere after that but Missy was good. She seemed like a proper person with proper motivations for doing stuff, underneath all the swivel-eyed madness. More interesting than John Simm trying to conquer the universe just because. 

The one thing I liked about the last season finale was the fact that Missy's whole scheme turned out to be a desperate attempt at winning the Doctor over in some way, rather than just bog-standard world domination stuff. Now Davros seems to be playing a similar game of silly buggers, looking for some kind of moral victory over the Doctor.


----------



## MrsDoyle (Sep 26, 2015)




----------



## Shirl (Sep 26, 2015)

I don't like this doctor.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 26, 2015)

Davros: "I hope you are grateful. It wasn't easy to procure, and very nearly unique, of course. You should feel privileged"

The Doctor, seated, looks quizzical.

Davros: "The only other...chair...on Skaro"


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 26, 2015)

I enjoyed that. A facepalm-free plot for once.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2015)

davros milked that pretend death scene hard


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 26, 2015)

Feckin loved that, I cannot lie. Davros chewing almost as much scenery as Missy, both magnificent.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 26, 2015)

I must admit I thought it was great , although I think they missed a trick with Clara , I didn't want the dr to kill her but perhaps a massive loop back to asylum of the darleks would have been chilling ( as long as they made her think she was oswin or something )


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 26, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> darleks



Why is this so common? I see it all the time, is it a dialect thing injecting the "r" in there?

Nowt to do with you, ruffneck123, just curious.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 26, 2015)

Missy. Just about manages to upstage everyone. Brilliant.


----------



## moomoo (Sep 26, 2015)

I cried. Lol


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 26, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Why is this so common? I see it all the time, is it a dialect thing injecting the "r" in there?
> 
> Nowt to do with you, ruffneck123, just curious.


Not sure , I did the auto correct as I thought Apple would know , turns out they didn't , but can't judge nor did I !


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 26, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Why is this so common? I see it all the time, is it a dialect thing injecting the "r" in there?
> 
> Nowt to do with you, ruffneck123, just curious.


but then again you call me ruffneck123....


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 26, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> but then again you call me ruffneck123....



Ach, I've only got a blue glowing thing in the middle of my forehead to see with.


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 26, 2015)

Nice to see Docs 1 and 4 in there, albeit glimpses.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 26, 2015)

I have to remind myself its a kids / family show and make allowances for the panto nature of missy.

Oh yes she is.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 26, 2015)

I thought that was an excellent episode. Loved Missy's "I was peckish" line. They dropped a lot of good shit about the daleks in there, and of course now we have to wonder what amount of it was actually true, and how much was davros' bullshit. I'm not au fait with early Who, so I don't know, but what was all this stuff about hyrbid dalek-time lords (apart from them taking some health from his regen power in this episode)? Do we know anything about that already, or is it a new thing they're dangling there for us?


----------



## zoooo (Sep 26, 2015)

I liked him pootling about in the dalek.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 26, 2015)

Must admit 'ah, but when you thought I fell for _your _scheme, you were actually falling for _my _scheme' things are a bit shit' - in dr who and elsewhere.


----------



## 8den (Sep 26, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Must admit 'ah, but when you thought I fell for _your _scheme, you were actually falling for _my _scheme' things are a bit shit' - in dr who and elsewhere.



Yup. Was a plot twist worthy of a ruler.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 26, 2015)

I was underwhelmed. I really want to love it...but I don't. And I don't really know why.


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 26, 2015)

Were the sets and Daleks that they recreated for Adventure In Time And Space re-used in this, maybe?


----------



## 8den (Sep 26, 2015)

S☼I said:


> I was underwhelmed. I really want to love it...but I don't. And I don't really know why.



I'm still underwhelmed the scripts, and Clara, but I am getting a sneaking suspicion Capaldi doesn't fit.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 26, 2015)

8den said:


> I'm still underwhelmed the scripts, and Clara, but I am getting a sneaking suspicion Capaldi doesn't fit.



yeah. it's not that he's a bad actor, he really isn't, but the part might not be for him. students I've been talking to at college about it are unanimous in saying they've gone off it since he became The Doctor.


----------



## 8den (Sep 26, 2015)

S☼I said:


> yeah. it's not that he's a bad actor, he really isn't, but the part might not be for him. students I've been talking to at college about it are unanimous in saying they've gone off it since he became The Doctor.



he's a talented actor, who's always wanted to be the Doctor, I still maintain he's be badly served by naff scripts. Everything about the episode was going great, except for the "ah ha you thought you tricked me but it was ACTUALLY my plan all along" silliness.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 26, 2015)

Aye, but I'm just not _feeling_ it anymore. Wasn't that excited by the story, too many references to other things (Buffy, Star Wars) and unlike most people I think I found Missy a bit daft. Something's missing...RTD maybe


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 26, 2015)

8den said:


> I'm still underwhelmed the scripts, and Clara, but I am getting a sneaking suspicion Capaldi doesn't fit.



Congrats on being a true Doctor Who fan: you are convinced you could do it better. It's a long, long tradition.


----------



## 8den (Sep 26, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Aye, but I'm just not _feeling_ it anymore. Wasn't that excited by the story, too many references to other things (Buffy, Star Wars) and unlike most people I think I found Missy a bit daft. Something's missing...RTD maybe



i think the stories have lacked energy for years, and I've never been a fan of missy (although I think tonight was her best outing). 

My problem with Moffat is for every good idea he has had, he's then proceeded to overuse it till its bleeds dry. The Weeping Angels, River, etc...


----------



## 8den (Sep 26, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Congrats on being a true Doctor Who fan: you are convinced you could do it better. It's a long, long tradition.



Have I ever said "I could do better"? No. It's a discussion on the current series of Who, and I'm offering my opinion.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 26, 2015)

8den said:


> Have I ever said "I could do better"? No. It's a discussion on the current series of Who, and I'm offering my opinion.



Congrats on being a true Doctor Who fan.


----------



## 8den (Sep 27, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Congrats on being a true Doctor Who fan.



Congrats on sounding like a broken record.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 27, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Congrats on being a true Doctor Who fan.


Well, this is all quite belligerent - for the discussion of an early evening TV Prog!


----------



## Gromit (Sep 27, 2015)

8den said:


> Yup. Was a plot twist worthy of a ruler.



There was a twist?



Spoiler



I'm dying, i'm at your mercy. Okay so instead of killing you quickly and painlessly which would be murderous and inhumane.... I will invigorate you and then kill you by blowing up your whole city with Dalek sludge, which won't be quick and no doubt rather distressing to you. Whilst wasting valuable regeneration power. Because i knew your plan all along and just wanted to fuck with ya. Yeah thats far better than using a weapon.



This doctor is a bit of a evil cunt when you think about it.


----------



## zoooo (Sep 27, 2015)

I haven't LOVED it since Tennant. But I still like it.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 27, 2015)

Really enjoyed the episode and I'm looking forward to the feature length omnibus tomorrow, both the grandkids love it and capaldi and so do I, he is a brilliant fit for the role and for me is the doctor.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 27, 2015)

Gromit said:


> There was a twist?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If he was ever really dying. I'm guessing the Doctor knew long before he got to Davros what the plan was. The whole fake meditation thing, "he's never like this", becoming hard but not impossible to find and the noise he was making last week all fit with this. We've seen The Doctor convinced he was dead before and he wasn't like that which was annoying last week but makes sense now. Did Missy know the plan or did he send her the confession dial knowing she would find him eventually? Had be planned the false extermination with her? I'm just glad that it still makes some sense after the deception was revealed so often it doesn't.


----------



## Santino (Sep 27, 2015)

Star Wars reference: Let me look at you with my own eyes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2015)

Capaldi has owned the role from his first episode. haters step back


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 27, 2015)

Santino said:


> Star Wars reference: Let me look at you with my own eyes.



Yep. And an allusion to "only now at the end do you understand".


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 27, 2015)

Capaldi is great. What isn't great is the scripts. Last night's was a lot better than most of last series, though, and I enjoyed it, so I'm overlooking the worst aspects (as mentioned, the old "I wasn't falling for your plan you are falling for mine" routine). 

But I thought the "I am a dalek" bit was terrific. Every child who ever played at being a dalek goes around sayibg that, but no dalek has said it. Until now. Well played team.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2015)

if I have one complaint it was that Missy's realignment to eeeebil was shoehorned in a tad


----------



## Santino (Sep 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> if I have one complaint it was that Missy's realignment to eeeebil was shoehorned in a tad


She was never re-aligned away from evil, she just wanted to help out the Doctor.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 27, 2015)

Santino said:


> She was never re-aligned away from evil, she just wanted to help out the Doctor.



Yeah they've been desperately trying to spell out that Missy is quite a bit like the Daleks. Her emotional spectrum is flipped upside down. Evil is her good. Hate is how she loves. Being an enemy is how you behave as a friend.

Her only objective in these episodes was to keep the doctor from dying because who will she fight then? Any of the doctor's other goals (such as keeping Clara alive) she still tries to hinder.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> But I thought the "I am a dalek" bit was terrific. Every child who ever played at being a dalek goes around sayibg that, but no dalek has said it. Until now. Well played team.


who among us has not sat behind a fan and said 'I am a dalek' through it so the blades chop your vocals up and make you sound like one


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> who among us has not sat behing a fan and said 'I am a dalek' through it so the blades chop your vocals up and make you sound like one



Earlier this week


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2015)

Santino said:


> She was never re-aligned away from evil, she just wanted to help out the Doctor.


yersh I got that much but how it was played in some last min scheme to get clara kilt


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 27, 2015)

I love Missy. Not least because she is an awesome, but underused actress, for whom this part is perfect.

I rather liked this two-parter.  Very Beschdel-friendly, too.  I'm a little troubled by why the daleks have exactly human-shaped cavities inside, and then also, why the mind-powered interface wasn't opening the dalek for her to get out, since she would surely have been thinking that.  Oh, and why she wasn't shooting up the place when she was getting all teary with the doctor, since we had just been told that was what would happen if she got emotional...

But i'm happy for my science fiction to be a little silly.


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2015)

I think the next episode with Missy in should take place in a hospital, to optimise that weird déjà vu, double take feeling.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 27, 2015)

I liked how dark it was, the idea of the dalek sewer graveyard. That's pretty fucking grim.


----------



## 8den (Sep 27, 2015)

I'm coming around to the idea that the best New Who companion was Rory.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 27, 2015)

8den said:


> I'm coming around to the idea that the best New Who companion was Rory.


Rory or Donna, certainly.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 27, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> Rory or Donna, certainly.



Mickey.


----------



## 8den (Sep 27, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> Rory or Donna, certainly.



Katherine Tate was way too shrill for me, Plus she only realised he was called "The Doctor" and not "Doctor Who" after her stint. Unforgivable.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 27, 2015)

Oh as for the Time Lord Dalek cross breed thing.

Hasn't the mythos of the Dalek always had racial purity as one of their primary drivers?
Older purer Daleks have destroyed younger genetically diluted Daleks on the show.
Modifying themselves even to gain more power would be against their ingrained ethos. They would have destroyed each other for not being true Daleks.


----------



## Santino (Sep 27, 2015)

Rory.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 27, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Oh as for the Time Lord Dalek cross breed thing.
> 
> Hasn't the mythos of the Dalek always had racial purity as one of their primary drivers?
> Older purer Daleks have destroyed younger genetically diluted Daleks on the show.
> Modifying themselves even to gain more power would be against their ingrained ethos. They would have destroyed each other for not being true Daleks.


Did they change the genetic code or just absorbed some magic powers? They're quite happy to upgrade their guns?


----------



## zoooo (Sep 27, 2015)

Loved Rory. 
Time for a boy main companion now, for fuck's sake. I've only been wanting one for 10 bloody years.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2015)

shut up hitler


----------



## Santino (Sep 27, 2015)

Where. Is. My. Wife.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 27, 2015)

+1 on Rory.

_Would you like me to repeat the question? _


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 27, 2015)

Santino said:


> Star Wars reference: Let me look at you with my own eyes.



Ha! Of course


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2015)

I liked the episode, I love Missy, I thought Capadi worked a little better (although he still doesn't sit right for me) and nothing about the plot twist ending made any sense whatsoever.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 28, 2015)

I loved donna as a companion,she kept me watching and Rory was a sweetheart I miss him


----------



## zoooo (Sep 28, 2015)

ginger_syn said:


> I loved donna as a companion,she kept me watching and Rory was a sweetheart I miss him


Donna was good. And it was nice to temporarily have a different companion dynamic than 'doctor and very young adoring girl'.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 28, 2015)

zoooo said:


> Donna was good. And it was nice to temporarily have a different companion dynamic than 'doctor and very young adoring girl'.


I like the idea and the dynamic. Unfortunately I found her personality irritating.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 28, 2015)

And I'd just like to tel Mr Moffatt again (I'm sure he reads the thread) that having the characters shout quirky things a lot doesn't excuse one from writing a plot. The Doctor should be a madcap alien, yes. But just loads of shouting and stuff that doesn't make sense is no substitute for a story. 

I'm not very exacting. The story needn't be too innovative: Doctor sees unusual event, investigates event, meets monster, works out what monster is up to, gets into peril, reverses peril, sets things right (but perhaps not exactly as they were before).  That's a perfectly serviceable template. 

Just cut out the thinks-it's-clever-but-is-actually-just-drivel plot twists.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2015)

amy pond is the best companion of recent times


----------



## Cloo (Sep 28, 2015)

Santino said:


> She was never re-aligned away from evil, she just wanted to help out the Doctor.


I also quite liked the point from the last episode that she made about how humans can't really be expected to understand what 'friendship' might entail between millennia-old Timelords; her intentions in anything towards the Doctor may just be totally inscrutable.


----------



## Spod (Sep 28, 2015)

Love Capaldi. Plots and scripts are a bit weak with occasional flashes of greatness. Tennant got the best plots and baddies.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2015)

Capaldi's had monsters from Flatland which were great. I expect to see them bought back and done to death like the weeping angels


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 28, 2015)

S☼I said:


> yeah. it's not that he's a bad actor, he really isn't, but the part might not be for him. students I've been talking to at college about it are unanimous in saying they've gone off it since he became The Doctor.



Pah; "students"


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2015)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 28, 2015)

You're allowed a wheelchair if you've got no fucking legs surely? That's not exactly decadence. And he's living in some dank shitty bunker, not a taxpayer-funded mansion.

Davros is truly the leader we deserve. Give him a flat cap and a jumper and he'd be the dalek Jeremy Corbyn.


----------



## KeeperofDragons (Sep 28, 2015)

I liked Rory - "trust the plastic"


----------



## kabbes (Sep 28, 2015)

None of the Doctor's actions in that double-episode made sense if his plan was always to do what he did.  Anything could have undone him at any point.  It's up there with the very worst attempts at "but this was my plan all along!!!" I have ever seen.

It's known as a Xanatos Gambit, by the way.

ETA: or maybe the Batman Gambit is the better fit.


----------



## Santino (Sep 28, 2015)

kabbes said:


> None of the Doctor's actions in that double-episode made sense if his plan was always to do what he did.  Anything could have undone him at any point.  It's up there with the very worst attempts at "but this was my plan all along!!!" I have ever seen.
> 
> It's known as a Xanatos Gambit, by the way.
> 
> ETA: or maybe the Batman Gambit is the better fit.


The Doctor can always be fairly confident that he won't die, because if he did he would have already heard about it. Which he did last time it happened, and the time before.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 28, 2015)

Santino said:


> The Doctor can always be fairly confident that he won't die, because if he did he would have already heard about it. Which he did last time it happened, and the time before.


He doesn't know his companions won't die though.  Or he might end up a prisoner or causing misery for the universe.

If the way it turned out was the plan, it was a truly terrible plan.  But none of it was predictable anyway.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 28, 2015)

Santino said:


> The Doctor can always be fairly confident that he won't die, because if he did he would have already heard about it. Which he did last time it happened, and the time before.


 
Maybe he's been to wherever he is buried when he eventually dies, has checked out the body and worked out he was killed by the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal, so unless he's up against the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal he knows he's fine.


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> amy pond is the best companion of recent times



Really? Do you mean aesthetically?

I wanted her to work, I really did, but see ended up being a weirdly cardboard amalgamation of the worst or Rose and River Song.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Really? Do you mean aesthetically?
> 
> I wanted her to work, I really did, but see ended up being a weirdly cardboard amalgamation of the worst or Rose and River Song.


I thought she just worked really well with matt smith. And yes, aesthetics. But also I thought they had great chemistry. I think the best episode with Pond that springs to mind is 'The Girl Who Waited'


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought she just worked really well with matt smith. And yes, aesthetics. But also I thought they had great chemistry. I think the best episode with Pond that springs to mind is 'The Girl Who Waited'



I think the character had potential, and she had some good episodes, but she just got over-complicatedly Moffatted to a level of ridiculousness.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 28, 2015)

I dunno if it was the acting or the writing or both but I never really warmed to Amy. Rory was too good for her.


----------



## zoooo (Sep 28, 2015)

I like Clara when she's being clever. I don't like her when she suddenly does things like standing like a lemon and letting Michelle Gomez handcuff her to a wall without even pulling her fucking hand away. Just stupid.

The last doctor/companion duo I really believed in was Rose and Doctor Ten. I don't think I'll ever like it that much again, so I don't have massive expectations.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2015)

zoooo said:


> I like Clara when she's being clever. I don't like her when she suddenly does things like standing like a lemon and letting Michelle Gomez handcuff her to a wall without even pulling her fucking hand away.


Or headbutting Missy unconscious then snapping a suitable Time Lady bone (a finger, maybe?) to pick the lock of the handcuffs.

Just saying, there were a variety of options available #secondratecompanion


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 28, 2015)

I haven't believed the chemistry since Rose and Ten, either. Some of their stuff was unnecessary, but I really believed they had a proper Doctor/companion bond, even before all the lovey-dovey stuff. 

That said, in terms of companions I personally liked, it's Donna every time. She was his equal in her own way. Completely unsure of herself at the same time as completely sure of herself. She acted just as a companion should -- as the Doctor's moral compass, perfectly illustrated in that first episode in Pompeii, which set the tone for what was to come. And she gave us Wilf, and those amazing episodes where they were sent off oop north after the bomb. There was no ridiculous sexual tension, it was just mates galloping off around the universe having some fun, and keeping each other straight, bolstering each other, being there for each other. And the way her story ended was tragic beyond belief, which is what should happen to the odd companion here and there. After all, the Doctor is who he is because of all the lives he's wrecked along the way, and he wrecked Donna's in spectacular fashion.

I take umbrage with Amy and Eleven mostly because I hate Moffat and all I got from their stint was the sense of Moffat being just off camera, thinking he's just one of the gang, and everything was written with an eye on him feeling cool and awesome and so, so clever look at me and did I tell you how great it is that she's not a wee dumpy thing and is actually gorgeous?

Ugh. Fuck off, Moffat.

Sure, Amy did have some great episodes, but goddamn it comes at the expense of some of the worst gender shit I can think of. Her entire life consisted of waiting for the Doctor, she was a vessel for his jollies, in more ways than one. She was a plot device (much like Clara in her first outings), and no amount of 'feisty' and 'sassy' *screams* could make up for that. Rory was the only saving grace from that era. Good riddance, long may they stay stuck in that weird impossible and infeasible pocket of New York time.

Clara's grown on me since he let her have some fucking agency of her own. She's still too goody-goody two shoes for my liking though, but I'll let that pass since kids, etc.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2015)

mind you it wouldn't be the first time a fiesty companion has been treated like shit by the Doc. Recall sylvestor mcoys relentless negging on Ace. Who was a great companion in every way and I won't hear different. Takinng a dalek out with an arcane baseball bat is 100% win


----------



## zoooo (Sep 28, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I haven't believed the chemistry since Rose and Ten, either. Some of their stuff was unnecessary, but I really believed they had a proper Doctor/companion bond, even before all the lovey-dovey stuff.
> 
> That said, in terms of companions I personally liked, it's Donna every time. She was his equal in her own way. Completely unsure of herself at the same time as completely sure of herself. She acted just as a companion should -- as the Doctor's moral compass, perfectly illustrated in that first episode in Pompeii, which set the tone for what was to come. And she gave us Wilf, and those amazing episodes where they were sent off oop north after the bomb. There was no ridiculous sexual tension, it was just mates galloping off around the universe having some fun, and keeping each other straight, bolstering each other, being there for each other. And the way her story ended was tragic beyond belief, which is what should happen to the odd companion here and there. After all, the Doctor is who he is because of all the lives he's wrecked along the way, and he wrecked Donna's in spectacular fashion.


Agree 100%. Donna and Wilf era was brilliant, and her ending still makes me so sad.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2015)

While completely understanding the arguments in favour of Donna, I could never call her my favourite because Tate's portrayal generally just annoyed me. Same goes for Rory - I get the love, I just think the actor was a bit wet and weak, didn't really deliver. But I know I'm in the minority for both, so will just have to accept it like the go-against-the-grain lone wolf that I am.

Wilf was great on all counts though, no argument from me there


----------



## belboid (Sep 28, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> I just think the actor was a bit wet and weak, didn't really deliver.


really?  I thought he was far and away the best actor in the whole series.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2015)

belboid said:


> really?  I thought he was far and away the best actor in the whole series.


Sadly, you are wrong 

I dunno, I just didn't believe his more defiant bits, his delivery never felt convincing.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 28, 2015)

Your face is wrong.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Your face is wrong.


Mother, is that you?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 28, 2015)

You missed a trick there.

"Are you my mummy?"


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2015)

Dammit


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 28, 2015)

Not getting this series yet. Too much 'ah, tricked you!'-based plot resolution.  Can't stand Gomez's comic turn.  I'm fairly sure I like Capaldi as the Dr and I'm fine with Clara as a character, but somehow the dynamic between the two of them isn't right (maybe yet...). Like it's really a show about her and a funny bloke from space she happens to know.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 28, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> Not getting this series yet. Too much 'ah, tricked you!'-based plot resolution.  Can't stand Gomez's comic turn.  I'm fairly sure I like Capaldi as the Dr and I'm fine with Clara as a character, but somehow the dynamic between the two of them isn't right (maybe yet...). Like it's really a show about her and a funny bloke from space she happens to know.


Sounds like the original concept for the show. ETA without any pretence of educating.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2015)

if you place a character who does not do overt violence in a situation where he and the people he wants to save are about to be subject to violence then you'd better have a smart arsed get out. Thats the doctors constant right there.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 29, 2015)

Overall I enjoyed it. missy -  great. Capaldi - great. Clara - meh - except when missy pushed her down the well.  Lots of wit. Some striking ideas  - dalek death slime - urrghh - and how, if you're inside a dalek and  say shit like "I love you" it comes out as EXTERMINATE!. Some great jokes - (mainly via missy - but also  Davros and the chair). But the plot? Jesus ... just descended into self referential gobbledy gook. Again.
Jimmy Mc Govern says that you should try to have interesting characters and a simple story - moffat should take note.
He probably would also have something to say about the massive overuse of VERY LOUD, shit  music telling you - just inc ase you cant work it out for yourself - weather this bit of the drama is exciting/scary/emotional/sad etc etc.


----------



## zoooo (Sep 29, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Overall I enjoyed it. missy -  great. Capaldi - great. Clara - meh - except when missy pushed her down the well.  Lots of wit. Some striking ideas  - dalek death slime - urrghh - and how, if you're inside a dalek and say shit like "I love you" it comes out as EXTERMINATE!


Yes, I really liked 'you're different to me' coming out as exterminate (or whatever it actually was).


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 29, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> Sounds like the original concept for the show. ETA without any pretence of educating.



Yeh, I did have a flash of realisation about that after I'd posted - sounds pretty much like the opening show...

Still, maybe I articulated it badly, but there's something that doesn't feel quite right about Clara and the doc's dynamic.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2015)

Enjoyed the second part more than the first, even if it had far to many "HAHAHA I TRICKED YOU!" moments.

The banter and acting seemed a lot better, plus Capaldi in Davros chair, laughed like a drain.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 29, 2015)

zoooo said:


> I like Clara when she's being clever. I don't like her when she suddenly does things like standing like a lemon and letting Michelle Gomez handcuff her to a wall without even pulling her fucking hand away. Just stupid.
> 
> The last doctor/companion duo I really believed in was Rose and Doctor Ten. I don't think I'll ever like it that much again, so I don't have massive expectations.



Yeah sure, I'll climb into this dalek at the behest of this deranged mass murderer. There's no way that can go wrong.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2015)

maybe she was down with it cos she used to be one


----------



## kabbes (Sep 29, 2015)

By the by, it makes no sense whatsoever that old daleks would universally have a hard-on for killing young daleks whilst ignoring all outsiders.  It flies in the face of everything daleky.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 29, 2015)

kabbes said:


> By the by, it makes no sense whatsoever that old daleks would universally have a hard-on for killing young daleks whilst ignoring all outsiders.  It flies in the face of everything daleky.



Maybe they were somewhat cantankerous about having been left to rot in a sewer for all eternity.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2015)

I like how he used regeneation energy so Davros could enjoy one last evil laugh, and yet whenever anyone good needs saving the cunts well tight with his Reg-en


----------



## belboid (Sep 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I like how he used regeneation energy so Davros could enjoy one last evil laugh, and yet whenever anyone good needs saving the cunts well tight with his Reg-en


friends, enemies, hard to tell the difference after all that time


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2015)

frenemies


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 29, 2015)

Got my daughter interested in the dalek origins, and got to watch three episodes of genesis instead of the normal crap, so I'm happy for now.


----------



## 8den (Sep 29, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Got my daughter interested in the dalek origins, and got to watch three episodes of genesis instead of the normal crap, so I'm happy for now.



Actually the Start of the episode was the best part. Clocking the war and instantly going "Skaro"


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 29, 2015)

I don't actually really like genesis all that much, not sure why it was voted the best story of all time. Mind you, not sure what mine would be. Maybe city of death.


----------



## 8den (Sep 29, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't actually really like genesis all that much, not sure why it was voted the best story of all time. Mind you, not sure what mine would be. Maybe city of death.



None of them have aged particularly well, I tried to watch the city of death a few years ago and it was nearly unwatchable


----------



## belboid (Sep 29, 2015)

8den said:


> None of them have aged particularly well, I tried to watch the city of death a few years ago and it was nearly unwatchable


Some of the final fight scenes were just laughable. In fact, Missy grabbing hold of Clara's wrist and handcuffing it was just what 4 did to beat Davros in...whichever one it was.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2015)

pertwees venusian aikido probably still holds up. In my memories


----------



## 8den (Sep 29, 2015)

belboid said:


> Some of the final fight scenes were just laughable. In fact, Missy grabbing hold of Clara's wrist and handcuffing it was just what 4 did to beat Davros in...whichever one it was.



To be honest The Dialogue between the Doctor and Romana in Paris was so clunky I gave up embarrassed for them I never even made it to the fighting.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2015)

the doctor having a swordfight lol


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 29, 2015)

It feels like we're on the verge of a mass realisation that this programme is a load of old shit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2015)

fuck off, its still the greatest cultural achievment of the last 500 years


----------



## belboid (Sep 29, 2015)

8den said:


> To be honest The Dialogue between the Doctor and Romana in Paris was so clunky I gave up embarrassed for them I never even made it to the fighting.


tho not as bad as some with the awful (sad, but true) Ace


----------



## 8den (Sep 29, 2015)

belboid said:


> tho not as bad as some with the awful (sad, but true) Ace



Careful you're talking about the woman Dotc loves.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 29, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Maybe they were somewhat cantankerous about having been left to rot in a sewer for all eternity.


But why not kill everybody?  Why just other daleks?


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 29, 2015)

kabbes said:


> But why not kill everybody?  Why just other daleks?



Isn't it because they couldn't do anything as a lump of sludge? ie they have to start by getting inside the outer casing of another dalek and the only way to do that is to kill the one that's already in there. Maybe they just hadn't finished doing that yet when all the non-Daleks were escaping.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 29, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> Isn't it because they couldn't do anything as a lump of sludge? ie they have to start by getting inside the outer casing of another dalek and the only way to do that is to kill the one that's already in there. Maybe they just hadn't finished doing that yet when all the non-Daleks were escaping.


Seems very weak.  Ignoring outsiders seems very out of character.

And why could they attack other daleks originally in the sewer but not otherwise?  What exactly changed with that regeneration energy?  And why in the sewer did they need holes in the dalek casing but later they could manage with no holes?

The last 15 minutes were just utterly shit.  Shame because it was going well until then.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2015)

belboid said:


> tho not as bad as some with the awful (sad, but true) Ace


do you impugn her sir?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2015)

Its weird you know, growing up in the interregenum and existing only on Old Who the Doctor was always sexless to me. I mean like a celibate. Not that a big deal was made of it but he just seemed to have no interest in the love between two people. Or aliens. Whatever. He wasn't swinging it about in the vein of Kirk. Or maybe I missed subleties there because I was a kid. Then of course we had Matt Smith (WTSW) and Alex Kingston and I could totally buy that because I also think River Song is intriguing and good looking.

But for some reason I can't imagine Capaldi's doctor even bashing one out. The internet screwed me over with Who slashfic ages ago when I was innocently looking for non erotic fan fiction. So I'm not looking for any more of it. But I bet there is already Capaldi slashfic


----------



## belboid (Sep 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> do you impugn her sir?


yes sir, I did sir. A terrible actress, more wooden than the Trees of Cheem


----------



## 8den (Sep 29, 2015)

belboid said:


> yes sir, I did sir. A terrible actress, more wooden than the Trees of Cheem



She had a Dalek with Baseball bat, she'd do you in a hearbeat.


----------



## belboid (Sep 29, 2015)

8den said:


> She had a Dalek with Baseball bat, she'd do you in a hearbeat.


Or I could just confuse her by asking her to explain the Curse of Fenric


----------



## zoooo (Sep 29, 2015)

I'd prefer the Doctor to be sexless, really.
I definitely don't want Capaldi drooling over River Song. Bleh.

(Not because he's old, cos he's not. But just generally.)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 29, 2015)

8den said:


> None of them have aged particularly well, I tried to watch the city of death a few years ago and it was nearly unwatchable



I have a love hate relationship with pretty much all of the, they are terrible but I kind of like the am dram of it all. I also like the DVD production note subtitles (which I have to have on to stop dying of boredom). Certain episodes stuck in my mind as a kid so when I watch them now, there is a strange sort of shittyfied joy that accompanys them. Usually it is a cliffhanger (that would have stayed with me all week) or a revelation (the movalans are androids!!!).

Because of my age these are mostly triggered by late Baker and Davison eps. Re-runs played but never really tickled my fancy as much as current episodes. I fell out of love with it during the C Baker years and eventually stopped watching after a few McCoy eps (though I have rewatched some later eps since and he they ended up getting much better just before it was cancelled).


----------



## Santino (Oct 2, 2015)

A new spin-off has been announced, about teenagers in Coal Hill School: BBC Latest News - Doctor Who - Doctor Who Spin Off: Class


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 2, 2015)

disruptive influence is back


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 2, 2015)

lol why have they chosen a photo of moffat that makes him look like a cunt


----------



## zoooo (Oct 2, 2015)

Should be a photo of Patrick Ness anyway.

Here is one of him with a sloth.







Ness is an amazingly good writer (I'm reading one of his books right now), and since he's the creator and sole writer of this show I am actually scarily excited about it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2015)

Santino said:


> A new spin-off has been announced, about teenagers in Coal Hill School: BBC Latest News - Doctor Who - Doctor Who Spin Off: Class


Acclaimed YA author ... YA series... Best YA fiction ...

What is "YA"?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> lol why have they chosen a photo of moffat that makes him look like a cunt


Is there any other sort of photo of Moffat?


----------



## Belushi (Oct 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Acclaimed YA author ... YA series... Best YA fiction ...
> 
> What is "YA"?



Young Adults.


----------



## Santino (Oct 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Young Adults.


 Yah.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Young Adults.


He looks about 40.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 2, 2015)

generally it seems to mean you don't put sex scenes in. Plenty of stuff coming out these last 5 years or so that explore adult themes, are steeped in violence and fairly cerebral, yet recieve the YA label. Planesrunner by Ian Macdonald springs to mind, and all the people tediously milking the urban fantasy/steampunk genre with yet another hex slinging PI in downtown los angeles or a fucking airship captain-rogue.  Marketers label imo.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 2, 2015)

Some YA books do have sex in. It's maybe just not usually as explicit and 'erotica'-y as in some adult books.

We've all read Forever by Judy Blume, right? And that was written in the 70s.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 2, 2015)

Biggest YA books of recent years are The Hunger Games and Twilight series.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 2, 2015)

The YA genre has exploded in the past few years. Likely helped in no small part by Rowling, as her young readers grew up and continued to read the Potter series, all of a sudden it was cool again for teenagers to read. Then you get the Stephanie Meyer guff, and off we go. There have always been some gems out there, but there's been a real push lately, and long may it continue.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 2, 2015)

on a random YA tangent here- theres a film version of Z is for Zacariah now that came out in august. I have yet to see it but looking forward.


----------



## 8den (Oct 2, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> Biggest YA books of recent years are The Hunger Games and Twilight series.



Biggest not best. Little brother by Cory Doctrow


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2015)

zoooo said:


> We've all read Forever by Judy Blume, right? And that was written in the 70s.


Nope. 

I was born in 65, but I'd never heard of her until recently.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 2, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> The YA genre has exploded in the past few years. Likely helped in no small part by Rowling, as her young readers grew up and continued to read the Potter series, all of a sudden it was cool again for teenagers to read. Then you get the Stephanie Meyer guff, and off we go. There have always been some gems out there, but there's been a real push lately, and long may it continue.



Its for the same reasons as the film industry now targets most films as PG-13, biggest market share.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Nope.
> 
> I was born in 65, but I'd never heard of her until recently.


Well go and read it now!


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 2, 2015)

8den said:


> Biggest not best. Little brother by Cory Doctrow


I said "biggest" deliberately.  But the first hunger games book is pretty good, actually.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 3, 2015)

Santino said:


> A new spin-off has been announced, about teenagers in Coal Hill School: BBC Latest News - Doctor Who - Doctor Who Spin Off: Class


A spin off about one of the most tedious bits of the whole series?  How droll.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 3, 2015)

Give the people what they want - The Rani and Clyde adventures.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 3, 2015)

meh I always thought battle royale was better than hunger games.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 3, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> meh I always thought battle royale was better than hunger games.


If anyone disagreed with that they'd need a bloody good slap.

Although if Battle Royale was a book first, I haven't read it. I'm just talking films.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 3, 2015)

zoooo said:


> If anyone disagreed with that they'd need a bloody good slap.
> 
> Although if Battle Royale was a book first, I haven't read it. I'm just talking films.


theres a 13 book manga of it, not sure if it came first or was released as a cash in.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 3, 2015)

Philistines.  Battle Royale was an _excellent_ book before it was a film.  If you've only ever seen the film then you've missed out on one of the great pieces of literature, in my view.  Honestly, I can't recommend it highly enough.  The book has the space to explore the themes a hundredfold as compared with the fim.


----------



## Santino (Oct 3, 2015)

Doctor Who's on tonight. I wonder where Doctor Who will travel in his spaceship.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 3, 2015)

Santino said:


> Doctor Who's on tonight. I wonder where Doctor Who will travel in his spaceship.


And...WHEN...amirite


----------



## cesare (Oct 3, 2015)

On a bit later tonight, probably scary #behindthesofa


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 3, 2015)

Maybe I'm just falling for the production values, but Who feels like it's been scarier than usual over the past series or two. There have been quite a few moments where I've thought, "if I was a kid I'd be crapping myself at that."


----------



## cesare (Oct 3, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Maybe I'm just falling for the production values, but Who feels like it's been scarier than usual over the past series or two. There have been quite a few moments where I've thought, "if I was a kid I'd be crapping myself at that."


Weeping Angels and Library were scary too (for my level of scary).  But yes I think they're ramping it back up, which is a good thing.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 3, 2015)

I predict this will be the one atomic suplex grudgingly likes


----------



## zoooo (Oct 3, 2015)

There was an episode last series set in an orphanage(?) where something slowly appeared under a blanket on some kid's bed. That totally shit me up.

And Blink is obviously one of the scariest things ever.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 3, 2015)

cesare said:


> Weeping Angels and Library were scary too (for my level of scary).  But yes I think they're ramping it back up, which is a good thing.


ma was complaining about how its drifted over the years from 7 30 to later and later? I hadn't noticed but if they are going a bit more scary then maybe later airing is part of this.


----------



## cesare (Oct 3, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> ma was complaining about how its drifted over the years from 7 30 to later and later? I hadn't noticed but if they are going a bit more scary then maybe later airing is part of this.


Button thinks that the 8.30 start means that the kids will be watching it then run behind the settee when the scary stuff happens after the watershed and any complaints will be met with "nothing scary before the watershed". On the other hand it might be so as not to clash with the new Strictly.


----------



## 8den (Oct 3, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I predict this will be the one atomic suplex grudgingly likes



I hope not, I'm fairly certain that's one of the signs of the Apocalypse.


----------



## Santino (Oct 3, 2015)

Anyone spot a Star Wars reference?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 3, 2015)

I thought that was a good episode. It ended in just the right place.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 3, 2015)

Santino said:


> Anyone spot a Star Wars reference?


The extra ghost no one wanted?


----------



## prunus (Oct 3, 2015)

Liked.

Would really prefer without the 'next time!' though - rather draws the sting of a good cliffhanger (not in this case coz it reveals some plot - we know that there's some story to happen in the past next - but because I means the last thought one's left with isn't "wow f**k that's unexpected the doctor's a ghost")


----------



## 8den (Oct 3, 2015)

The cards were very funny.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 3, 2015)

8den said:


> The cards were *moderately* funny.


Didn't really tie in with previous personalities.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 3, 2015)

I liked the cards. They should do more bits like that.


----------



## 8den (Oct 3, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Didn't really tie in with previous personalities.



Yes after each regeneration the doctors personality is different.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 3, 2015)

I wasn't really feeling it cos the ghosts that aren't ghosts aren't good monsters for me. Maybe it'll tie together next week but I was not loving it.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 4, 2015)

I suspect the cards were clara's idea, I liked it  i'm fond of a good trapped in a base adventure


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

It had a old who feel. Dark cliff hanger on a old base. Of course there's the whole why are you looking for fossil fuel when you have a fusion reactor bit?


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 4, 2015)

8den said:


> It had a old who feel. Dark cliff hanger on a old base. Of course there's the whole why are you looking for fossil fuel when you have a fusion reactor bit?


Fission.


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> Fission.



Potato etc. 

Is it just me or was the mix really odd last night? Music seemed to drown out dialogue a lot.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 4, 2015)

8den said:


> Music seemed to drown out dialogue a lot.



Every episode of Doctor Who has had this problem since the reboot. Who is unfollowable unless the TV volume is set to painful levels and the children are gagged with gaffa tape.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 4, 2015)

A good episode, I thought, and the first one in which I have enjoyed Capaldi's performance.  It felt here that he found his groove, found whom his doctor is.

However, it has the feel that it'll be classic Moffat -- a great set up full of promise that then utterly fails to deliver, relying instead of deus ex machina, nonsensical twists and illogical nonsense.


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Every episode of Doctor Who has had this problem since the reboot. Who is unfollowable unless the TV volume is set to painful levels and the children are gagged with gaffa tape.



I just thought it was particularly egregious this episode and wasn't sure if I needed to tweak my tv or if the mix was off


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 4, 2015)

8den said:


> Potato etc.
> 
> Is it just me or was the mix really odd last night? Music seemed to drown out dialogue a lot.


We have fission and still use oil. Tyew music was worse than usual.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 4, 2015)

crudes not just for power remember. Plastics and other products.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 4, 2015)

That was more like it. More of this sort of thing, please. They've still got Capaldi stamping about the place being a bit mad as if he doesn't have the range to play anything but Malcolm Tucker, but on the whole its on the right tracks. No lord of the rings type stuff with profound figures standing about on rocks with orange lighting, although the fact they've done that means they've lost my trust, one just knows they are going to return to that sort of crap. No maudlin sentimentality about the importance of sentimentality thank gawd. Incidental music was just right too, slightly retro electro. Nice. Stuff about Orion's sword was daft but I'll let that pass. Would be nicely rounded off nicely if the Doctor does something a bit evil in the follow up.


----------



## MrsDoyle (Oct 4, 2015)

Eeep! 
Is the Sonic Screwdriver gone from Doctor Who forever?


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> We have fission and still use oil. Tyew music was worse than usual.



I think I need to watch it again I missed a lot of dialogue because it was drowned out by music. 

I agree it's common for music to be louder these days but I've never had the situation were the music overwhelmed dialogued on Who. Something I'd expect on ITV.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 4, 2015)

8den said:


> I think I need to watch it again I missed a lot of dialogue because it was drowned out by music.
> 
> I agree it's common for music to be louder these days but I've never had the situation were the music overwhelmed dialogued on Who. Something I'd expect on ITV.


2119 oil and fission-great news. A trillions worth of oil by then is probably what leaked out of a jeep as it left the base.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 4, 2015)

I very much approve of that episode. I also approve of the cliffhanger. 

I do not approve of sonic shades.


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I very much approve of that episode. I also approve of the cliffhanger.
> 
> I do not approve of sonic shades.



Oh Christ yes. That and the Peter Andre joke. The Doctor should never ever make pop culture references.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 4, 2015)

8den said:


> Oh Christ yes. That and the Peter Andre joke. The Doctor should never ever make pop culture references.


But the flash cards for dealing with humans: funny.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 4, 2015)

8den said:


> Oh Christ yes. That and the Peter Andre joke. The Doctor should never ever make pop culture references.


I think the joke was that the docs so out of touch he's still using a peter andre reference


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> But the flash cards for dealing with humans: funny.



It's the family/pet bit


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 4, 2015)

I'm no fan of the 'wearable tech' either. Tis rubbish.

And yay, I have spoke.


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I think the joke was that the docs so out of touch he's still using a peter andre reference



He's the Doctor he should be ranting about some Weird music from a planet no one has heard of


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 4, 2015)

I mostly liked the idea on this one although there were some irksome bits.  
 They word it as if to say his video glasses were using the wifi but then show them working inside the Faraday cage.
If he has super tech glasses why is the video feed so shit? 
Etc etc


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I very much approve of that episode. I also approve of the cliffhanger.
> 
> I do not approve of sonic shades.



It's 2015 we've established that google glasses and apple watches are shit.


----------



## Santino (Oct 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I think the joke was that the docs so out of touch he's still using a peter andre reference


He was on the telly just before Dr Who.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 4, 2015)

Going back to the first two episodes while I liked the majority of the story I found the ending a little weak. The whole bit of the tardis reverse exploding was way overblown.

Also what does this mean for the dales and why is skara just one little city in the middle of a desert?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 4, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Also what does this mean for the dales


And indeed for all of Yorkshire?



> and why is skara just one little city in the middle of a desert?


Because of the very long war, the Kakeds retreated into a domed city not far from the Thal city.


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 4, 2015)

.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 4, 2015)

Apart from the auto correct stuff....

The home planet of a galaxy threatened species should consist of more than just a single city. Also said city shouldn't look like it could concivably be snake that some of the dalek space ships we have seen. 


And why oh why  is doctor who channeling csi miami.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 4, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Apart from the auto correct stuff....
> 
> The home planet of a galaxy threatened species should consist of more than just a single city. Also said city shouldn't look like it could concivably be snake that some of the dalek space ships we have seen.
> 
> ...


deal with it


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 4, 2015)

Yeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhh


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> But the flash cards for dealing with humans: funny.


That *doesn't* mean, Moffat, that you can now do it to death. It got a laugh. Now let it lie.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 4, 2015)

apparently on set they were reffered to as 'The Shades of Justice' which sounds itself like an episode title for Dr Who


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 4, 2015)

MrsDoyle said:


> Eeep!
> Is the Sonic Screwdriver gone from Doctor Who forever?



It better fucking not be. I hate it when Moffat tries to imprint his legacy on the cunting show. The cunt.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 4, 2015)

I doubt the shades will be here to stay, it would gainsay an iconic Doctor Who accoutrement. It's not like a fez or a question mark brolly, to be thrown aside so lightly.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 4, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> It better fucking not be. I hate it when Moffat tries to imprint his legacy on the cunting show. The cunt.


It would be better if all sonic gadgets were done away with for a while.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 4, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> It would be better if Moffat were done away with for good.



I quite agree.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2015)

not a bad episode, moffat should go though


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 4, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> It better fucking not be. I hate it when Moffat tries to imprint his legacy on the cunting show. The cunt.



Hate-watching is an interesting thing, isn't it?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 4, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Hate-watching is an interesting thing, isn't it?



I dislike this thinking. The idea, if I'm understanding correctly, that if I 'hate' something so much, why do I continue to watch it if for no other reason than to shit all over it and feel good about myself?

This is a common one bandied around by gubergaters, that all these awful women being critical of video games should just shut up and go away and leave this medium that they clearly don't like alone.

Is 'textual criticism, 101' to be a necessary component of the Internet Licence we all clearly need? Is it really necessary to have to point out that a person can simultaneously enjoy a thing and recognise its flaws? Is it anathema to the concept of 'being a fan' that you can love something in its entirety but not love every detail about it? Is the idea entirely lost, that if you are a fan of something you might want it to be its very best, and when you see it fall short you might want to talk about that?

These things are so very, very simple and obvious. It's frankly exhausting having to defend your criticism of something, not for its content but for the very fact you dared to have a criticism in the first place.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 4, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I dislike this thinking. The idea, if I'm understanding correctly, that if I 'hate' something so much, why do I continue to watch it if for no other reason than to shit all over it and feel good about myself?
> 
> This is a common one bandied around by gubergaters, that all these awful women being critical of video games should just shut up and go away and leave this medium that they clearly don't like alone.
> 
> ...



Nah, it just seems to me like a completely unproductive waste of time. But hey, keep on using gendered insults about a family TV show if it makes you happy.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 4, 2015)

Yes, it's a waste of time to ever think about why you might not like something. To ever talk about problematic aspects of something. What we should do is ignore anything that doesn't sit right, or that might be offensive, or sexist, or racist, or dodgy in any way, because to criticise it, my, what a waste of time! Nothing was ever achieved because someone pointed out a thing was kind of a problem, amirite? Life works best when everyone shuts up and takes what they're given.

You might find it an unproductive waste of time. I wholeheartedly encourage you not to waste your otherwise completely productive day on it then.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 4, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yes, it's a waste of time to ever think about why you might not like something. To ever talk about problematic aspects of something. What we should do is ignore anything that doesn't sit right, or that might be offensive, or sexist, or racist, or dodgy in any way, because to criticise it, my, what a waste of time! Nothing was ever achieved because someone pointed out a thing was kind of a problem, amirite? Life works best when everyone shuts up and takes what they're given.
> 
> You might find it an unproductive waste of time. I wholeheartedly encourage you not to waste your otherwise completely productive day on it then.



I find gendered insults problematic too, although Gaia knows I've used them often enough.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 4, 2015)

Funny how some people suddenly care about feminism at times like this.


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

Also why do people feel the need to argue with someone who watches a program and is critical of it.


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Funny how some people suddenly care about feminism at times like this.



It's not about feminism it's about ethics in whovians.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 4, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Funny how some people suddenly care about feminism at times like this.



I only care about feminism in the context of Doctor Who.


----------



## 8den (Oct 4, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> And why oh why  is doctor who channeling csi miami.


Yes Who does he think he is..:.

Boom cue the credits.:..


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 5, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> It better fucking not be. I hate it when Moffat tries to imprint his legacy on the cunting show. The cunt .


I don't, but then I'm enjoying the majority of episodes so far in moffat's run also while I'm not fond of the glasses I could do with a break from buying the latest version of the sonic times 3 for the descendants


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 5, 2015)

ginger_syn said:


> I don't, but then I'm enjoying the majority of episodes so far in moffat's run also while I'm not fond of the glasses I could do with a break from buying the latest version of the sonic times 3 for the descendants



Now you'll have to buy them Ray-Bans!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 5, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Now you'll have to buy them Ray-Bans!



Yes, much cheaper!


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I doubt the shades will be here to stay, it would gainsay an iconic Doctor Who accoutrement. It's not like a fez or a question mark brolly, to be thrown aside so lightly.



The Sonice Screwdriver was destroyed by a Treleptil in "The Visitation". At the time, I thought it was possibly a good idea - the Doctor seemed to rely on it a little too much. Then came new Who and the damned thing seemed to have as much airtime as the Doctor...


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 5, 2015)

Doctor Who - The New Series - Coming Soon - Ranges - Big Finish

War Doctor!


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 6, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yes, much cheaper!


Especially when you already have a couple


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 10, 2015)

So is this a permanent move back to multi-episode stories? I'm liking it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2015)

Bungle73 said:


> So is this a permanent move back to multi-episode stories? I'm liking it.


looks like this whole series is a run of two parters, but I've read nothing to suggest a permanent move to such format.

Have to say, its great to have the cliffhanger back. They practically made old Who!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 10, 2015)

They made old Who rather formulaic at times. End of ep 1, Doctor in easily-resolved stand off with the good guys. End of ep 2, Doctor faced with bad guys. End of ep 3, Doctor faced with tricky moral choice or other impossible situation. When every four-act drama had the same structure and each episode had only 25 minutes to get to the cliffhanger, writers had less room to surprise us. 

One hour episodes with continuous, running themes are the staple of TNGAOT and Who adapts to this perfectly well.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 10, 2015)

Bungle73 said:


> So is this a permanent move back to multi-episode stories? I'm liking it.


All season/series/run I think. Moffat said something about not knowing if they are two parters until you reach the end of episode but looking at the titles they are all multi-episode. Perhaps some will be w stories bit with overlapping characters/sets/baddies or something. I always thought a series where he was either chasing, being chased or scrapping with the Master/Missy would be good. An opener with a normalish fight between them with a set up why they'd keep bumping into each other. Episodes where the Doctor tries his usual thing against a monster of the week only for the Master to turn up, have turned up, lay a trap or give the bad guy a heads up or mcguffin. Perhaps an episode in reverse where the Doctor only turns up to throw a spanner in the works of a Missy adventure or only be seen in a cameo as she tracks him down in the last five minutes. Then wrap it up in the finale maybe with various elements from previous episodes being important.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> They made old Who rather formulaic at times. End of ep 1, Doctor in easily-resolved stand off with the good guys. End of ep 2, Doctor faced with bad guys. End of ep 3, Doctor faced with tricky moral choice or other impossible situation. When every four-act drama had the same structure and each episode had only 25 minutes to get to the cliffhanger, writers had less room to surprise us.
> 
> One hour episodes with continuous, running themes are the staple of TNGAOT and Who adapts to this perfectly well.


And let's not forgot the infamous "cliffhanger" from Dragonfire where Sylvestor McCoy ends up hanging off a cliff by his umbrella for no apparent reason - cue end credits. Although I read recently that it wasn't originally supposed to be a cliffhanger for the episode.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 10, 2015)

Bungle73 said:


> And let's not forgot the infamous "cliffhanger" from Dragonfire where Sylvestor McCoy ends up hanging off a cliff by his umbrella for no apparent reason - cue end credits. Although I read recently that it wasn't originally supposed to be a cliffhanger for the episode.


The Great Intelligence pushed him innit. You think they just make this stuff up on the fly or something?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2015)

maybe its recompense for what looks to be the end of the sonic screwdriver? got rid of one iconic thing, brought back another. Moffat giveth and moffat taketh away


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> They made old Who rather formulaic at times. End of ep 1, Doctor in easily-resolved stand off with the good guys. End of ep 2, Doctor faced with bad guys. End of ep 3, Doctor faced with tricky moral choice or other impossible situation. When every four-act drama had the same structure and each episode had only 25 minutes to get to the cliffhanger, writers had less room to surprise us.
> 
> One hour episodes with continuous, running themes are the staple of TNGAOT and Who adapts to this perfectly well.


one cliffanger to every 30 min episode might be milking it a bit too far for my grown up and HBO jaded tastes, but I rate it as done like this at the end of an hour length two parters first ep. I even had to go imdb and check that the daleks hadn't REALLY killed missy and clara in the season opener


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 10, 2015)

Last week's cliffhanger a bit shit though. Clara deploys some sort of hologram gubbins to entrap the baddies and then, fifteen minutes later, we are supposed to fret that Tucker is a ghost.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 10, 2015)

dead dr who is a good cliffhanger.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 10, 2015)

Exposition soliloquy to camera: no thanks.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 10, 2015)

I think I've missed a week because Clara had gone and there seem to be some decent companions.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 10, 2015)




----------



## 8115 (Oct 10, 2015)

Grrrrrr


----------



## zoooo (Oct 10, 2015)

Is annoying when a character comes in for a week or two and you realise she'd be a great companion. (Also see Sally Sparrow.)


----------



## 8115 (Oct 10, 2015)

I swear the undertaker was in it before.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 10, 2015)

Was it Paul Kaye? Looked like him.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 10, 2015)

Maybe he was the faun in The Lion, the witch and the wardrobe.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 10, 2015)

I didn't get any of that beyond "scary ghosts".


----------



## binka (Oct 10, 2015)

did i miss the bit where they explained why the undertaker was taking the not dead baddy to earth with the intention of himself creating ghost beacons to call in all his mates and ransack the place? couldn't he have just rang them up himself since he wasn't actually dead and saved all the bother?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2015)

I enjoyed it more than last week but mainly because the doc got to do one of his patented 'there is good, there is evil and there are people you do not cross. There are spaces inbetween when you want to cross over and I will be in them waiting for you' speeches.

not the greatest two parter I have to say. Hopefully next week we will have some meatier evil that needs a slap rather than whatever the fuck these thing were


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 10, 2015)

So, the phwoar minister. That's the shadow proclamation for this series then.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 10, 2015)

I don't like all that exposition to camera stuff either. But, if you're going to do ridiculous paradox stuff, might as well address how impossible and ridiculous it is head on rather than hand waving it away and hoping no one asks too many questions. This way you just flat out _tell_ people not to ask any questions.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 11, 2015)

It wasn't really to camera though was it? It was the conversation he was having with Clara at the end. They even showed him firing up the amp and playing the fifth again. They even did some fancy cutting.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 11, 2015)

I just find it difficult to follow these days, all the convoluted time getouts etc. I like the monsters and the running about and I daresay I could watch Jenna Coleman running about away from monsters almost indefinitely but I simply don't follow the stories, whether cos I can't be arsed or I've stopped watching it seriously or etc. I'll keep watching but it's not great, merely pleasantly diverting.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> It wasn't really to camera though was it? It was the conversation he was having with Clara at the end. They even showed him firing up the amp and playing the fifth again. They even did some fancy cutting.


Really? I'll have to watch it again.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Really? I'll have to watch it again.


That was what I thought but I could be wrong.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> That was what I thought but I could be wrong.


You could well be right. I can rarely follow it when it gets like that. 

In this doublet, I liked episode one better. Episode two was entertaining enough, and I didn't mind the Harry Potter-esque hiding-from-your-earlier-self (although they didn't do anything with that except rip his sleeve, but I don't know who that was supposed to convince, except the audience. I know he knew that his ghost was supposed to have a torn jacket because that's what his ghost had had, but, em, sorry, lost the train of thought already!). And I didn't mind the bootstrap paradox notion, but I wish he'd been saying it to a character not the camera (unless as you say he was saying it to Clara and the start was a flash forward from the ending). But I think there's something about the way they shoot these things that doesn't give the viewer time to process the weirdness of plot, which leaves them feeling there actually wasn't one, just a guy shouting "confusing, confusing, confusing, biscuit cabbage. Got it now?" (Which actually id prefer).

Things I liked: 

Capaldi plays his own guitar. He can, so why not have him play guitar? He's better at it than Troughton was at recorder. 

"This regeneration is a clerical error". Like it. 

The BSL. And especially good when it wasn't interpreted. I liked that. Go DW.


----------



## Cid (Oct 11, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> They made old Who rather formulaic at times. End of ep 1, Doctor in easily-resolved stand off with the good guys. End of ep 2, Doctor faced with bad guys. End of ep 3, Doctor faced with tricky moral choice or other impossible situation. When every four-act drama had the same structure and each episode had only 25 minutes to get to the cliffhanger, writers had less room to surprise us.
> 
> One hour episodes with continuous, running themes are the staple of TNGAOT and Who adapts to this perfectly well.



Staples of what now?


----------



## dylanredefined (Oct 11, 2015)

Why the fuck did they dress up the army training area as Russian? Find a job lot of russian props somewhere? Even at the height of the cold war the idea we would fight in russia would have been seen as realistic as dr who.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 11, 2015)

Cid said:


> Staples of what now?



The New Golden Age Of Telly.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

Cid said:


> Staples of what now?


I wondered that. My guess:

The Next Generation And Other Trek.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> The New Golden Age Of Telly.


Eh?

Is this a thing?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 11, 2015)

It certainly is.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It certainly is.


An historical thing, or are we living through it?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 11, 2015)

It started with the Sopranos. Authorities differ on whether we are in the declining years or the peak.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I wondered that. My guess:
> 
> The Next Generation And Other Trek.



I have never seen an episode of Star Trek, so the likelihood is that I never shall.


----------



## Paul peace (Oct 11, 2015)

Anyone got any download links for series 9?
A PM would be lovely.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It started with the Sopranos. Authorities differ on whether we are in the declining years or the peak.


Well, I agree that the Sopranos was very good indeed, so already I'm giving this theory a hearing. I'll have to read up on it. 

Not very keen on the title of the theory though. It sounds a bit iffy.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I have never seen an episode of Star Trek, so the likelihood is that I never shall.


Well, only TOS (the Original Series) is real; the rest is franchise-wringing desperation.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 11, 2015)

Paul peace said:


> Anyone got any download links for series 9?
> A PM would be lovely.



All still on iplayer surely? Or do you mean s8?


----------



## Knotted (Oct 11, 2015)

Entertaining but the bootstrapping thing does not get you out of the change the course of history thing rendering the whole thing inelegant. Watching it you feel like you've missed something and that's because something is missing.  The doctor doesn't die and his ghost disappears and yet there isn't this dangerous change in the course of history (quick check that this isn't to do with bootstrapping - there is no reason for Beethoven's symphonies to disapear with or without bootstrapping unless the course of history is changed). The bootstrapping idea might be weeved into the plot in an interesting way but it feels like misdirection from a plot hole instead. Irritating.


----------



## Santino (Oct 11, 2015)

Knotted said:


> Entertaining but the bootstrapping thing does not get you out of the change the course of history thing rendering the whole thing inelegant. Watching it you feel like you've missed something and that's because something is missing.  The doctor doesn't die and his ghost disappears and yet there isn't this dangerous change in the course of history (quick check that this isn't to do with bootstrapping - there is no reason for Beethoven's symphonies to disapear with or without bootstrapping unless the course of history is changed). The bootstrapping idea might be weeved into the plot in an interesting way but it feels like misdirection from a plot hole instead. Irritating.


The Dr never died, his ghost was always a hologram.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 11, 2015)

Santino said:


> The Dr never died, his ghost was always a hologram.



Ah OK. Ignore last post then. I think it actually works. Good episode.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> The BSL. And especially good when it wasn't interpreted. I liked that. Go DW.


Yes, that was excellent.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

Santino said:


> The Dr never died, his ghost was always a hologram.


Not yet understandable to me: why his hologram let the ghosts out of the faraday cage if his plan was to lure the ghosts into the faraday cage at the end.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I have never seen an episode of Star Trek, so the likelihood is that I never shall.


what a sad indictment of a life truly unfufilled


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2015)

was I tripping or did he use the arm of his sonic glasses to hack some machine at one point?


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 11, 2015)

Santino said:


> The Dr never died, his ghost was always a hologram.


Yeah. When I used to play Doctor Who as a kid when I couldn't think of a way to beat the baddies I'd travel back in time and fake everything I couldn't get around or feed them a time release poison when they were a kid or tamper with there programming so they'd die just as they had me cornered. That was always the problem with the Eccleston becoming part of events excuse. You can become part of events and defeat the enemy without ever having to change anything before the point you left for the past. The Doctor isn't omnipresent so as long as everything within his field of vision  tallies with the time travelled versions memories than it could all just be a set with the huge threat if there ever was one soniced at birth.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 11, 2015)

Why not do it every week?


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Not yet understandable to me: why his hologram let the ghosts out of the faraday cage if his plan was to lure the ghosts into the faraday cage at the end.


So he really believed he was dead for a bit? If his ghost just hung around that would be suspicious. It would also mean there was very little threat to Clara and so he would lack motivation.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> So he really believed he was dead for a bit? If his ghost just hung around that would be suspicious. It would also mean there was very little threat to Clara and so he would lack motivation.


Hmm. I suppose, although it felt more like "so the audience still thinks he's a ghost".


----------



## Paul peace (Oct 11, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> All still on iplayer surely? Or do you mean s8?


 S9, and a torrent because I can't get iplayer here in the wilderness.
I got a job in Jakarta three years ago, got married to a girl at work, so stayed.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 11, 2015)

Paul peace said:


> S9, and a torrent because I can't get iplayer here in the wilderness.
> I got a job in Jakarta three years ago, got married to a girl at work, so stayed.


https://thepiratebay.gd/search/doctor who/0/99/0


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 11, 2015)

They've put a few up on youtube pretty sharpish as well.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 11, 2015)

Santino said:


> The Dr never died, his ghost was always a hologram.



Yep the bootstrap talk was a red herring. Which kinda makes up for its inclusion as I'd thought they had decided to take a new direction of patronising the audience at the start of every episode. 

I still don't like him addressing the audience though. It should have been an eavesdrop on a conversation with one of the cast.


----------



## Mungy (Oct 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> .... just a guy shouting "confusing, confusing, confusing, biscuit cabbage. Got it now?"



fantastic


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2015)

Thank you kindly.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 11, 2015)

That was great.  Felt like a combination of the first four doctors which I think is what they were going for.  I loved the idea of Capaldi as the Doctor, then thought he was let down by multiple crap scripts last year, but this feels like everything I hoped it would be.  I love a good base-under-seige story, and the reveal that the monster had in fact died 150 years previously was very nice.  Soviet iconography always welcome too, maybe this will lead to kids with posters of Lenin on their walls?    Top marks for this one.

Nice to see Maisie Williams' story is coming up next as well.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 12, 2015)

Great episode this week,  better than last week's I think but will rewatch both before I decide, the granddaughter really liked it  and had no trouble understanding it  'though her favourite bit was the Doctor playing the guitar and the opening music which also made me smile.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 12, 2015)

I didn't like his explanation to Clara at the end either.  You shouldn't need to spell out that it is a paradox, either by directing it straight to camera or via a conversation as exposition vehicle.  It's prettier if you just leave it hanging.

I did like it but Danny is right that once again characters acted in a way that makes no sense once you know the full story.  If you're going to attempt clever twists and aha moments you really do have to make sure it all ties up.

Some great moments in this one though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 12, 2015)

kabbes said:


> I didn't like his explanation to Clara at the end either.  You shouldn't need to spell out that it is a paradox, either by directing it straight to camera or via a conversation as exposition vehicle.  It's prettier if you just leave it hanging.


I agree. Show not tell. But if you are going to tell, tell a character, not the camera. 

But I did like it. I have liked this series far better than last. It's a return to form.


----------



## Paul peace (Oct 12, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> They've put a few up on youtube pretty sharpish as well.



The youtube ones get deleted like a shot, and the torrent links all try to download exe or zipped files.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 12, 2015)

Paul peace said:


> The youtube ones get deleted like a shot, and the torrent links all try to download exe or zipped files.


Those torrents that I linked to all work. Click the little magnet icon.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 12, 2015)

Paul peace said:


> The youtube ones get deleted like a shot, and the torrent links all try to download exe or zipped files.


Not the ones I'm talking about. They were put up by the BBC. The first 2 episodes were anyway.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 12, 2015)

They might be gone I can't find them now. BBC America had put them on.


----------



## belboid (Oct 12, 2015)

Didn't really care about the intro one way or the other (tho I do think it was, in retrospect, clear that he was actually talking to Clara, not us), nor about supposedly inconsistent behaviour (I'm not sure if there was, certainly not inconsistent enough to really make it nonsensical), as it was a fun, well-paced and often very funny storyline. The speech speccy nerd gave after cute woman died was quite brilliant - spot on and actually quite harsh.  And her pretending to have a stone in her shoe so she could jump up and down going "It's bigger on the inside, it's bigger on the inside" was just brill.

But, mostly, the Tivolians!  If ever a breed of alien were designed to be loved by Urban, surely it should be the obsequious, snivelling, cowardly Tivolians.  "If you had occupied us, you'd be home by now"


----------



## Paul peace (Oct 12, 2015)

The little magnets did a grand total of nothing, but I've found working torrents as far as episode 4, but nothing after that.
I'm guessing you guys are only up to 4 at this point.


----------



## belboid (Oct 12, 2015)

Paul peace said:


> The little magnets did a grand total of nothing, but I've found working torrents as far as episode 4, but nothing after that.
> I'm guessing you guys are only up to 4 at this point.


us guys are only up to episode 4 so far


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 12, 2015)

kabbes said:


> I didn't like his explanation to Clara at the end either.  You shouldn't need to spell out that it is a paradox, either by directing it straight to camera or via a conversation as exposition vehicle.  It's prettier if you just leave it hanging.
> 
> I did like it but Danny is right that once again characters acted in a way that makes no sense once you know the full story.  If you're going to attempt clever twists and aha moments you really do have to make sure it all ties up.
> 
> Some great moments in this one though.


do you now accept tha Capaldi is the best doctor since the one I went to school with and probably on a par with Hamlet the tennant?


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 12, 2015)

Paul peace said:


> The little magnets did a grand total of nothing, but I've found working torrents as far as episode 4, but nothing after that.
> I'm guessing you guys are only up to 4 at this point.


you need to have a modern torrent application installed. 
just google torrent magnet if you can't work it out


----------



## kabbes (Oct 12, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> do you now accept tha Capaldi is the best doctor since the one I went to school with and probably on a par with Hamlet the tennant?


No but his performance no longer gives me head-rot


----------



## kabbes (Oct 12, 2015)

belboid said:


> Didn't really care about the intro one way or the other (tho I do think it was, in retrospect, clear that he was actually talking to Clara, not us), nor about supposedly inconsistent behaviour (I'm not sure if there was, certainly not inconsistent enough to really make it nonsensical), as it was a fun, well-paced and often very funny storyline. The speech speccy nerd gave after cute woman died was quite brilliant - spot on and actually quite harsh.  And her pretending to have a stone in her shoe so she could jump up and down going "It's bigger on the inside, it's bigger on the inside" was just brill.
> 
> But, mostly, the Tivolians!  If ever a breed of alien were designed to be loved by Urban, surely it should be the obsequious, snivelling, cowardly Tivolians.  "If you had occupied us, you'd be home by now"


The Tivolians are ripped off something else but I can't quite place it.  Douglas Adams, probably, or Terry Pratchett


----------



## belboid (Oct 12, 2015)

kabbes said:


> The Tivolians are ripped off something else but I can't quite place it.  Douglas Adams, probably, or Terry Pratchett


they appeared in the hotel one four years ago, but, yeah, do seem very familiar from somewhere else.

And it was Paul Kaye,  btw (someone asked a while back)


----------



## Paul peace (Oct 12, 2015)

belboid said:


> us guys are only up to episode 4 so far



I'm using bittorrent - I now have 4 episodes ready to watch. The Dr Who fan kids at school are going to go wild.
I see I'm going to have to arrange a cinema afternoon for them in my office.
The school is holding a big music event soon, so I may charge a small entry fee and put it to the funds for that.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 12, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> do you now accept tha Capaldi is the best doctor since the one I went to school with and probably on a par with Hamlet the tennant?


Tennant was OK but had the shittest stories making the whole experience dreadful. I can even enjoy capaldi in shit stories.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 12, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> do you now accept tha Capaldi is the best doctor since the one I went to school with and probably on a par with Hamlet the tennant?


As you know, Capaldi is the best Dr I was nearly in a band with.


----------



## belboid (Oct 12, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> As you know, Capaldi is the best Dr I was nearly in a band with.


I just listened to his band.  They were shit.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 12, 2015)

belboid said:


> I just listened to his band.  They were shit.


But a shit band you have no band family tree connection to.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 12, 2015)

I have no stain to put on matts smith character as he was in the year below me and in an all boys school that meant he technically didn't exist


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 12, 2015)

Dr Who series 9* (starts 19th Sept 2015)


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 12, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, only TOS (the Original Series) is real; the rest is franchise-wringing desperation.



Seven of Nine.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 12, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Seven of Nine.


I don't know what you mean. Seven of nine what?


----------



## belboid (Oct 12, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I don't know what you mean. Seven of nine what?


Catwomen prefer James T Kirk


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 12, 2015)

belboid said:


> Catwomen prefer James T Kirk


Quite right too.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 12, 2015)

My mate's brother is in Dr Who on Saturday  one of the lead baddies  I am excite


----------



## 8den (Oct 13, 2015)

Okay I didn't like the guitar. Matt Smith was good at football so they wrote some scenes were he plays football. Capaldi can play guitar. It's Doctor who not Britains got talent. Disliked the piece to camera at the start. I don't care if we found out later it was to Clara it was breaking the fourth wall shit


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2015)

8den said:


> Okay I didn't like the guitar. Matt Smith was good at football so they wrote some scenes were he plays football. Capaldi can play guitar. It's Doctor who not Britains got talent. Disliked the piece to camera at the start. I don't care if we found out later it was to Clara it was breaking the fourth wall shit



He did breaking the fourth wall shit last series in 'Listen' and that was great.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 13, 2015)

It's been established that the Doctor talks to himself even when others are around and talks to the Tardis. You're going to love this -


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 13, 2015)

No fucking idea what was going on in that episode.

Capaldi isn't clicking for me yet. I think he needs his own assistant, instead of Clara.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> It's been established that the Doctor talks to himself even when others are around and talks to the Tardis. You're going to love this -



"All of you at home"?

Who can he possibly mean?


----------



## belboid (Oct 13, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> "All of you at home"?
> 
> Who can he possibly mean?


"All of you at Home" - it's the new name for the Cornerhouse in Manchester. Which proves he really can travel in time, because the Cornerhouse wasn't even open when they made that show, let alone thinking about changing its name!!


----------



## Paul peace (Oct 13, 2015)

The excitement.
Just finished episode 1 ...EXTERMINATE ..... but exterminate what?
I'm going for the hand mines, so saving big D from a life stuck in a pointless war (probably started by the fucking Americans  ).


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 14, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Quite right too.



I almost stood up in the cinema and applauded when he finally met his end. Kirk was the George W Bush of the franchise.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 17, 2015)

top notch I recon. Set up some interesting things for the season as a whole and also delivered a good story. Also, the specs have been disabled. Back to the sonic? Maise was good enough and that bald bloke with the black beard? I'm informed he was in corrie.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 17, 2015)

What was Lofty off? Is my question.

Loved that explanation of Capaldi's previous appearance. And Donna and Ten, yay!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 17, 2015)

90% of that episode was utter tripe. The pompeii episode being referenced was absolutely great and OMG I MISS YOU DONNA. Then it all turned it around and was excellent in the last 3 minutes.

So is this the hybrid Davros talked about? Interesting. Next week's looks shit though.


----------



## Epona (Oct 17, 2015)

I loved that episode.


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 17, 2015)

Best of the season...yoyos...neutron reversers...benny hill...vikings...some kind of dragon...oh...and a great cliff-hanger.

This was The Girl Who Died...the next one is The Woman Who Lived.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 17, 2015)

Oh yes, reversing the polarity, excellent!


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 17, 2015)

There was one very short bit when he was training them with swords and it skipped to the scene of him sitting with two, apparently dead, villagers and the village on fire and he said something like "Well..that could have gone better."


----------



## Epona (Oct 17, 2015)

Also Clara saying to The Doctor that she would fight him over Maisie's character made me laugh.

Please let those sunglasses be perma-borked though.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 17, 2015)

Great episode, one of the best of the Capaldi era so far. I'm totally intrigued by who/what the Maisie Williams character is going to be


----------



## Wilf (Oct 17, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Great episode, one of the best of the Capaldi era so far. I'm totally intrigued by who/what the Maisie Williams character is going to be


Maisie, missy? Did we ever see how the master ended up becoming missy?


----------



## Helen Back (Oct 17, 2015)

No connection. Missy is short for Mistress, the female form of Master. He just happened to regenerate into a woman, that's all.

Maisie is the girl shown at the end of the S9 trailer.

"Hello, old man."
"You!"


----------



## gosub (Oct 17, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Maisie, missy? Did we ever see how the master ended up becoming missy?


I was going to say not by being human, but you have the scarecrow and pocket watch episode


----------



## Epona (Oct 18, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Maisie, missy? Did we ever see how the master ended up becoming missy?



Well given that Maisie is the actresses' name, NOT the name of the character she played (something beginning with an S, but I can't quite recall), I doubt that is relevant.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2015)

Epona said:


> Well given that Maisie is the actresses' name, NOT the name of the character she played (something beginning with an S, but I can't quite recall), I doubt that is relevant.


Oh.    My other prediction was that he was going to use an electric eel to restart her heart.  Not my night for predictions!


----------



## Epona (Oct 18, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Oh.    My other prediction was that he was going to use an electric eel to restart her heart.  Not my night for predictions!



Yeah I thought that too for a bit, I was groaning at it because I do get a bit pissed off with unrealistic CPR/defibrillation working like magic on telly.  I was much happier that alien technology (aka 'magic') came into play


----------



## Gromit (Oct 18, 2015)

Maisie was the only redeeming thing about that episode.

Well her and the time lapse scene featuring her transitioning through from the initial joy of immortality into weary misery and hate.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 18, 2015)

I liked the episode right up to the point he acted completely against character and everything he believes by granting a human immortality.  If Ashilda had just died, it would have been a good little tragic three act play. But no, they have to complicate it with nonsense.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 18, 2015)

I wonder whether Maisie, who "the girls thought was a boy", will end up giving the alien immortality gubbins to Clara, suddenly retconned as bi for no obvious reason. And then the Doctor will have another lesbian couple which can be written in for very occasional guest appearances.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 18, 2015)

kabbes said:


> I liked the episode right up to the point he acted completely against character and everything he believes by granting a human immortality.  If Ashilda had just died, it would have been a good little tragic three act play. But no, they have to complicate it with nonsense.



Not the first immortal he's created.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 18, 2015)

Not to be a pedant but I thought electric eels, where south American.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 18, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Not to be a pedant but I thought electric eels, where south American.



These were Amazonian Vikings blates.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Not the first immortal he's created.



Captain Jack was immortalised by Rose/Bad Wolf/The heart of the TARDIS/whoever, not the Doctor.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 19, 2015)

Eels?


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 19, 2015)

Another good episode I thoroughly enjoyed.


----------



## Santino (Oct 19, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I wonder whether Maisie, who "the girls thought was a boy", will end up giving the alien immortality gubbins to Clara, suddenly retconned as bi for no obvious reason. And then the Doctor will have another lesbian couple which can be written in for very occasional guest appearances.


Clara was bi in her very first appearance.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 19, 2015)

Really? Her first appearances were as metaClaras though; Victorians and Daleks. Which episode are you thinking of?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Not to be a pedant but I thought electric eels, where south American.



Leif Erikson introduced electric eels to Norway in the year 1007AD. He traded a job lot of nearly new horned helmets for them, with a bunch of merchants from the Barbary coast who were plying their trade between Nova Scotia and the Orinoco basin at the time. Probably.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 19, 2015)

Oh yes - I thought as I watched it, that I was surprised they'd gone for horned helmets - since I believe it's now broadly understood that these were a later (hollywood?) invention


----------



## dessiato (Oct 19, 2015)

I've just caught up with the last three episodes. Not very impressed to be honest, it feels a bit jumping the shark. I rewatched Day of the Doctor and was surprised how much better it is than this current season is.


----------



## Santino (Oct 19, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Really? Her first appearances were as metaClaras though; Victorians and Daleks. Which episode are you thinking of?


 Her very first appearance - Dalek Clara.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 19, 2015)

Santino said:


> Her very first appearance - Dalek Clara.



Okay, yes, she (or, rather, the fallible, souffle-fabulating memory of a human, trapped somewhere in the workings of a dalek) claimed to have been going through a phase in which she had a crush on someone called Nina. 

Your memory is impressive. I retract the suggestion of retconning.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 19, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Leif Erikson introduced electric eels to Norway in the year 1007AD. He traded a job lot of nearly new horned helmets for them, with a bunch of merchants from the Barbary coast who were plying their trade between Nova Scotia and the Orinoco basin at the time. Probably.


Wow, it's amazing how much you can learn on here.


----------



## gosub (Oct 19, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Leif Erikson introduced electric eels to Norway in the year 1007AD. He traded a job lot of nearly new horned helmets for them, with a bunch of merchants from the Barbary coast who were plying their trade between Nova Scotia and the Orinoco basin at the time. Probably.


In the spirit of of the origins of Dr Who, as an educational series. That deserves a yellow card.   (where its ended up though, probably deserves a job in story development)


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2015)

gosub said:


> In the spirit of of the origins of Dr Who, as an educational series. That deserves a yellow card.   (where its ended up though, probably deserves a job in story development)


fuck off, it was a fact on QI and therefor 100% true


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> fuck off, it was a fact on QI and therefor 100% true


and on Horrible Histories.


----------



## belboid (Oct 19, 2015)

Chris Packham says it's bollocks, therefore it's bollocks

RT say it is just about possible


----------



## Gromit (Oct 19, 2015)

They aren't electric eels. Its spunk from Thor the god of thunder. They are his electrically charged god gism swimmers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Orinoco basin


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 19, 2015)

Just watched this again, and I liked it more the second time around, but I still think a lot of the standard time filler stuff fell flat.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 19, 2015)

It was alight.  I like the fact it  actually frerences old who a lot.   i did think   that  a lot of this  episode  rode on the fact they had  what is basically  a GOT  DW crossover


----------



## 8115 (Oct 19, 2015)

Terrible episode, would not watch again.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 21, 2015)

Gromit said:


> They aren't electric eels. Its spunk from Thor the god of thunder. They are his electrically charged god gism swimmers.



They're just special eels. Like those trees were special trees last series.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 21, 2015)




----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 21, 2015)

I liked that episode, except the end bit where he finds the magic bindi.  If she'd have been on death's door I'd have let it pass, but already dead?  That's totally against character.


----------



## Chz (Oct 22, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> They're just special eels. Like those trees were special trees last series.


Electric eels aren't even eels.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

I wonder where the TARDIS was? Two days by boat away from the village, I know. But it might have been awkward if it was near the cliffs from the Time Meddler; the Doctor might have got in the wrong Version of his TARDIS. Even more awkward, he might have met the Time Meddler...he'd be raging.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2015)

Looks like we get more Masie swordfighting this week. You've paid for an actor whose been training in screen swordcraft for virtually all her working life. You'd be a fool not to write in some swordfights.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Looks like we get more Masie swordfighting this week. You've paid for an actor whose been training in screen swordcraft for virtually all her working life. You'd be a fool not to write in some swordfights.


Has she? Who is she?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Has she? Who is she?


you don't watch Game of Thrones? She's played Arya Stark in it since she was about 14. Dispossed and hunted daughter of the slaughtered Stark dynasty. Now training with the Faceless Men to become even more of an assasin and adept sword swinger. It was she who the doc brought back to life last saturday


----------



## Epona (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Has she? Who is she?



lmgtfy

Maisie Williams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> you don't watch Game of Thrones? She's played Arya Stark in it since she was about 14. Dispossed and hunted daughter of the slaughtered Stark dynasty. Now training with the Faceless Men to become even more of an assasin and adept sword swinger.


I've never seen Game of Thrones. I think it's on a channel I don't get. People keep telling me I should watch it, that it's the sort of thing I'd like, but I saw an advert for it a couple of months back on cooncil TV (there was a cliff and some arrows). It looked very much like something I wouldn't enjoy, going by the advert.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

Epona said:


> lmgtfy


Thank you: I know her surname was mentioned somewhere but I couldn't remember it.


----------



## Epona (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Thank you: I know her surname was mentioned somewhere but I couldn't remember it.



Even if you type just "Maisie" into google it is what comes up, she's very famous.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I've never seen Game of Thrones. I think it's on a channel I don't get. People keep telling me I should watch it, that it's the sort of thing I'd like, but I saw an advert for it a couple of months back on cooncil TV (there was a cliff and some arrows). It looked very much like something I wouldn't enjoy, going by the advert.


60% intense and very, very multilayered fuedalist politicking
30% wars and single combats
10% boobs

its managed the not small at all task of convincing even people who would spit upon all swords and sorcery to tune in regularly. Mainly because the intrigue, war and boobs play first fidddle to the more fantastic elements second.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

Epona said:


> Even if you type just "Maisie" into google it is what comes up, she's very famous.


I had no way of knowing that though. The only famous Maisie I know is a series of children's books about a kitten.


----------



## Epona (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I had no way of knowing that though. The only famous Maisie I know is a series of children's books about a kitten.



Oh stop it, you didn't even try looking it up.  Or you don't know how to do a search.  Even if you didn't know that, "Maisie Doctor Who" as a search term would have told you


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

Epona said:


> Oh stop it, you didn't even try looking it up


No, of course I didn't: I was discussing it with DotCom. That's how conversations work. Imagine if we did that in real life? Sat with encyclopaedias on our laps instead of speaking to each other!


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

It seems Game of Thrones is on Sky. I don't have Sky.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It seems Game of Thrones is on Sky. I don't have Sky.


most people watch it via the awesome power of piracy.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> most people watch it via the awesome power of piracy.


and one of the showmakers said something along the lines of 'we don't care so long as people get to see it'

the joys of producing for a company with a massive rock solid subscriber base to keep the bills paid lol


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> and one of the showmakers said something along the lines of 'we don't care so long as people get to see it'
> 
> the joys of producing for a company with a massive rock solid subscriber base to keep the bills paid lol


I'm pretty sure that TV companies would get a better measure of how popular TV shows are by looking on piratebay, rather than polling the public for viewing figures.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 22, 2015)

Netflix does precisely that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> and one of the showmakers said something along the lines of 'we don't care so long as people get to see it'
> 
> the joys of producing for a company with a massive rock solid subscriber base to keep the bills paid lol


I've never watched anything pirated. I wouldn't know how. Don't think I want to either, given my experience trying to watch some of the first series of the Walking Dead on my PC "on demand". It kept freezing and buffering and stalling and dropping out. Utterly painful. So I never do on demand. Same reason I don't have Netflicks.


----------



## gosub (Oct 22, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> I'm pretty sure that TV companies would get a better measure of how popular TV shows are by looking on piratebay, rather than polling the public for viewing figures.


is n't that what netflix did


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 22, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Netflix does precisely that.





gosub said:


> is n't that what netflix did


What? Download all their shows from the pirate bay?


----------



## 8den (Oct 22, 2015)

Torrents aren't on demand, you download per to per from thousands of people and then have an avi or MP4 to watch on your computer


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I've never watched anything pirated. I wouldn't know how. Don't think I want to either, given my experience trying to watch some of the first series of the Walking Dead on my PC "on demand". It kept freezing and buffering and stalling and dropping out. Utterly painful. So I never do on demand. Same reason I don't have Netflicks.


piracy is very different from on demand, its not streaming the show to you. You basically end up with a downloaded file that you then play through a media player of choice (VLC is best ime). So no buffering or delays. Its dead simple really, torrenting, but not without its own minor ballaches.


----------



## gosub (Oct 22, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> What? Download all their shows from the pirate bay?


no, work out what to stock on the the back of torrents. But you knew that.


----------



## Chz (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I had no way of knowing that though. The only famous Maisie I know is a series of children's books about a kitten.


To be fair, Maisy Mouse is what comes up first for me. Though having a 5 year-old around may be related.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2015)

gosub said:


> no, work out what to stock on the the back of torrents. But you knew that.


seems logical enough. Still doesn't explain why the films section is overly stocked with stuff danny dyer turned down for being to low rent


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

8den said:


> Torrents aren't on demand, you download per to per from thousands of people and then have an avi or MP4 to watch on your computer


I know they're not on demand. But I don't know what the rest means. It does sound like a lot of trouble, though. 

Anyway, I don't like watching stuff on my computer.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2015)

Sooner or later channel 4 will buy the rights to air the first series. Then realise the content means they'll have to stick it on in the graveyard shift of 11.15pm and nobody will watch it. Just like when they aired the Wire


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Sooner or later channel 4 will buy the rights to air the first series. Then realise the content means they'll have to stick it on in the graveyard shift of 11.15pm and nobody will watch it. Just like when they aired the Wire


Now the Wire does sound like something I'd give a go, unlike Game of Thrones. But unless someone lends me the DVD, it won't happen. (Every time I sneak a look at the Netflix thread it has people saying things like "I've just reinstalled mediahint on canary").

This is the sort of person I am: I have a smartphone, but if I'm in the house and I want to ring someone I pick up the landline.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 22, 2015)

Mediahint is only used if you want to watch the US version of Netflix


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> Mediahint is only used if you want to watch the US version of Netflix


I see, and so you'd leave your canary untouched if you were watching the UK version? 

Anyway, I think I've derailed this thread enough. Sorry folks. 

The Time Meddler, then. Are there any other times the Doctor met Vikings?


----------



## belboid (Oct 22, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> most people watch it via the awesome power of piracy.


about one in ten do, but it's still the most pirated TV show


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I see, and so you'd leave your canary untouched if you were watching the UK version?
> 
> Anyway, I think I've derailed this thread enough. Sorry folks.
> 
> The Time Meddler, then. Are there any other times the Doctor met Vikings?


Ice Warriors are a sort of viking analougge....and of course sontaran belligerence and warrior culture is very viking


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Sooner or later channel 4 will buy the rights to air the first series. Then realise the content means they'll have to stick it on in the graveyard shift of 11.15pm and nobody will watch it. Just like when they aired the Wire


That was BBC 2. Channel 4 royally fucked Babylon 5 though by varying episodes between tea time, late night in the week and Sunday lunchtimes.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Ice Warriors are a sort of viking analougge....and of course sontaran belligerence and warrior culture is very viking


As a history enthusiast I'd have liked the helmets to be unhorned, but of course Hartnell's Vikings were horned. So it's a bit like the Jurasic reboot thing: you couldn't stick feathers on the beasts you already have as scaly in your franchise's universe.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 22, 2015)

Also, feathered dinosaurs and hornless hats are shit.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Now the Wire does sound like something I'd give a go, unlike Game of Thrones. But unless someone lends me the DVD, it won't happen. (Every time I sneak a look at the Netflix thread it has people saying things like "I've just reinstalled mediahint on canary").
> 
> This is the sort of person I am: I have a smartphone, but if I'm in the house and I want to ring someone I pick up the landline.


You shouldn't pirate the wire, you should go out and buy it! It's worth every penny.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

emanymton said:


> You shouldn't pirate the wire, you should go out and buy it! It's worth every penny.


I like DVDs. But I'm not going to buy a massive boxed set until I've seen a couple of episodes at least.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 22, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> That was BBC 2. Channel 4 royally fucked Babylon 5 though by varying episodes between tea time, late night in the week and Sunday lunchtimes.



I've asked Netflix if they'll look at getting a licence to show Babylon 5. I really want to watch it again. They said, "Never say never!" which meant, "lol, no."


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I like DVDs. But I'm not going to buy a massive boxed set until I've seen a couple of episodes at least.



You need to watch 4 episodes of The Wire to asses if it's for you. Episodes 1-3 may leave you feeling... eh. Episode 4 is where the magic happens.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> You need to watch 4 episodes of The Wire to asses if it's for you. Episodes 1-3 may leave you feeling... eh. Episode 4 is where the magic happens.


I suppose I'd start with episode 4, then, and just ignore the first 3.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 22, 2015)

I seem to remember when Wire fever hit here originally, everyone was sending sneaky CDs of it to each other 

Ah, times have changed.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 22, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I've asked Netflix if they'll look at getting a licence to show Babylon 5. I really want to watch it again. They said, "Never say never!" which meant, "lol, no."


I got the dvds for my birthday a couple of years ago. I need to crack on with it.


----------



## Santino (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I suppose I'd start with episode 4, then, and just ignore the first 3.


 Would you start reading a novel at chapter 4?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I've asked Netflix if they'll look at getting a licence to show Babylon 5. I really want to watch it again. They said, "Never say never!" which meant, "lol, no."


I want to watch it again so I can once more laugh my arse off at the Technomage







I can't even remember the storyline. Technomage


----------



## dessiato (Oct 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Sooner or later channel 4 will buy the rights to air the first series. Then realise the content means they'll have to stick it on in the graveyard shift of 11.15pm and nobody will watch it. Just like when they aired the Wire


Downloading, is amazingly easy and, seldom has any problems although you do have to be careful what you click on. Therefore, only go to sites that experience shows to be reliable. Play back using vlan. Since I also prefer not to watch DVDs etc on my laptop I play through my TV using an HDMI cable. I use my laptop as a DVD player. I have a device for streaming to the TV but haven't yet worked out how to make it connect properly.

The only issues with pirating is the size and length of time it can take to download some files. Go for high seed to leach ratios to decrease download times. If your TV is not an HD choose lower quality to help speed up the process too. For films go for the HD to get decent playback quality when playing back through a home cinema. 

Of course doing this you are going to be in breach of copyright and you open yourself up to the possibility of legal action against you.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

Santino said:


> Would you start reading a novel at chapter 4?


No, but if I didn't like the first two chapters I'd be unlikely to read the third. I have a 50 page rule with books. If I don't like it by page 50, I never read page 51 or beyond. (Technically there could have been ten five-page chapters by page fifty, but that's unlikely).


----------



## Chz (Oct 23, 2015)

More to the point, the good bits of a lot of things are only good if you go into it knowing the characters.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

Chz said:


> More to the point, the good bits of a lot of things are only good if you go into it knowing the characters.


Does that mean I'll only enjoy episode 4 if I first sit through 3 hours of TV that I won't enjoy?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Does that mean I'll only enjoy episode 4 if I first sit through 3 hours of TV that I won't enjoy?


No


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

I'll stick with my plan then.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 23, 2015)

Think of it as having you appetite sparked by a fantastic starter, before getting to a main course that is even better.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2015)

Danny appears to be one who demands instant gratification


----------



## 8den (Oct 23, 2015)

I pirate seasons 2-5 of the wire, but than I got bought or bought every season and gave several boxes sets to people as presents


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Think of it as having you appetite sparked by a fantastic starter, before getting to a main course that is even better.


I was told it wasn't fantastic, that it would put me off, that I need to judge by episode four, not the first three which were frankly pants.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Danny appears to be one who demands instant gratification


No, I just don't sit through three hours of TV I'm not enjoying.

I'm one of those strange people who turns the TV off if there's not something on I specifically want to watch.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 23, 2015)

TV is your friend.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> No, I just don't sit through three hours of TV I'm not enjoying.
> 
> I'm one of those strange people who turns the TV off if there's not something on I specifically want to watch.


its not pants for the first three episodes it just doesn't look like its going to go beyond 'interesting and interestingly set police/crime procedural' till the varios strands start to come together in eps 3-4. I've avoided saying story arcs.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> its not pants for the first three episodes it just doesn't look like its going to go beyond 'interesting and interestingly set police/crime procedural' till the varios strands start to come together in eps 3-4. I've avoided saying story arcs.


I was told it was utter pants and should be avoided until episode four.

Who should I believe?!!


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I was told it was utter pants and should be avoided until episode four.
> 
> Who should I believe?!!



It takes a few eps to gather momentum but of course, imho, you should begin at the beginning.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I was told it was utter pants and should be avoided until episode four.
> 
> Who should I believe?!!



have I ever steered you wrong?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> have I ever steered you wrong?


----------



## Santino (Oct 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> have I ever steered you wrong?


You made me read those Alastair Reynolds books.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2015)

Santino said:


> You made me read those Alastair Reynolds books.


Slow Bullets is the latest- a return to form


----------



## Santino (Oct 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Slow Bullets is the latest- a return to form


A return to his previous form of paper-thin characters and wasted sci-fi ideas?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2015)

Santino said:


> A return to his previous form of paper-thin characters and wasted sci-fi ideas?


deft space opera done with a spartan touch


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 23, 2015)

Santino said:


> A return to his previous form of paper-thin characters and wasted sci-fi ideas?



Revelation Space is awesome. And the Doctor Who one is pretty fine, given the limitations.


----------



## belboid (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I was told it was utter pants and should be avoided until episode four.
> 
> Who should I believe?!!


Anyone who says the first three are utter pants is an imbecile.  The first three are good, solid, cop drama.  Not amazingly, out of this world, but good. The kind of thing you'd keep watching if you knew it went somewhere.

It's not like Buffy, where you have to watch pretty much two seasons worth before it gets to the good shit.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> Anyone who says the first three are utter pants is an imbecile.  The first three are good, solid, cop drama.  Not amazingly, out of this world, but good. The kind of thing you'd keep watching if you knew it went somewhere.
> 
> It's not like Buffy, where you have to watch pretty much two seasons worth before it gets to the good shit.


I trust Vintage Paw, so don't call her an imbecile. 

I never watched Buffy. It didn't sound good to me.


----------



## belboid (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I trust Vintage Paw, so don't call her an imbecile.
> 
> I never watched Buffy. It didn't sound good to me.


fortunately, she didn't say it was utter pants, just might leave you....eh

And it's true that from the first three alone you wont go 'ohhh, so that's why everyone says this is brilliant' but it's still good


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> fortunately, she didn't say it was utter pants, just might leave you....eh
> 
> And it's true that from the first three alone you wont go 'ohhh, so that's why everyone says this is brilliant' but it's still good


Don't worry, if I ever get a chance to watch it, I'll go back and watch the first three episodes once I've satisfied myself that I've enjoyed some that are actually rated.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 23, 2015)

Danny, please don't watch anything I like.  I don't want you to ruin it you miserable bastard.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Danny, please don't watch anything I like.  I don't want you to ruin it you miserable bastard.


Give me a list, and I'll see what I can do.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

Anyway, what do you mean miserable?  _I'm_ not the one who said the fourth episode was the one to watch!


----------



## Gromit (Oct 23, 2015)

Every single episode of The Wire is mint, apart from the one with the fly.


----------



## 8den (Oct 23, 2015)

Frankly if you're not hooked after the tale of snot boogie you're dead to me.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2015)

I'm also the one who keeps saying let's get back to Dr Who!  

:hard stare:


----------



## Gromit (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm also the one who keeps saying let's get back to Dr Who!
> 
> :hard stare:



Which Wire season was that in?


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 23, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Which Wire season was that in?


The first three if he doesn't get Bond.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 23, 2015)

You will not enjoy the 4th episode of The Wire if you have not seen the first 3 episodes of The Wire.

Just watch the fucking wire and enjoy it, stupidface


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 23, 2015)

And episode one ends with a lovely long shot that should not be missed. It sets up the mindset of one of the central characters.


----------



## 8den (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm also the one who keeps saying let's get back to Dr Who!
> 
> :hard stare:



Can I introduce you to my "The Wire/Doctor Who" slash fiction? 

Basically Daleks invade the West Side and The 11th Doctor & Mc Nulty team up to beat them. There's a 11,000 word sex scene about a 3 some between Kema, Snoop and Amy Pond.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 23, 2015)

Got them WMD's


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 23, 2015)

A couple of stellar episodes, and then  a mediocre one.  I can't believe they did the whole horns-on-helmets thing. I thought it was pretty common knowledge these days that Vikings never had horns on their helmets.


----------



## 8den (Oct 23, 2015)

Bungle73 said:


> A couple of stellar episodes, and then  a mediocre one.  I can't believe they did the whole horns-on-helmets thing. I thought it was pretty common knowledge these days that Vikings never had horns on their helmets.



It's pretty common knowledge that dinosaurs had feathers too yet no one gave Jurassic world any jip,


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 23, 2015)

Bungle73 said:


> A couple of stellar episodes, and then  a mediocre one.  I can't believe they did the whole horns-on-helmets thing. I thought it was pretty common knowledge these days that Vikings never had horns on their helmets.


I bet at least one or two did


----------



## kabbes (Oct 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Give me a list, and I'll see what I can do.


Buffy for a start, which was the best programme ever made.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 24, 2015)

8den said:


> It's pretty common knowledge that dinosaurs had feathers too yet no one gave Jurassic world any jip,


They did but Jurassic World dealt with it in the a script. All the dinosaurs are not genetically identical to extinct species not just the big bad. Even Jurassic Park 3 had Sam Neil make a comment that they are not dinosaurs and that real dinosaurs are in the  ground. If was a major plot point in the first film that the dinosaurs were patched up using the DNA of modern animals.


----------



## Chz (Oct 24, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Does that mean I'll only enjoy episode 4 if I first sit through 3 hours of TV that I won't enjoy?


Beats me, I've never watched it. But I can come up with plenty of examples where the problem is that once you get to the better episodes, you won't actually know what the fuck is going on because the mediocre episodes before it set everything up and introduce all the characters. 

It's more of an issue in a novel series than in television, normally. But if you were to jump into the best parts of... say, Farscape, without seeing any of it previously you'd turn it off as incomprehensible nonsense.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 24, 2015)

Chz said:


> Beats me, I've never watched it. But I can come up with plenty of examples where the problem is that once you get to the better episodes, you won't actually know what the fuck is going on because the mediocre episodes before it set everything up and introduce all the characters.
> 
> It's more of an issue in a novel series than in television, normally. But if you were to jump into the best parts of... say, Farscape, without seeing any of it previously you'd turn it off as incomprehensible nonsense.


I hadn't heard of Farscape, but having Googled it, I don't think I'd have started watching it in the first place. 

But, yes, I take the point. Some things start slowly and build.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 24, 2015)

How come every thread I click on this morning is people criticising danny's viewing habits?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2015)

Belushi said:


> How come every thread I click on this morning is people criticising danny's viewing habits?


people are very critical today


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2015)

8den said:


> It's pretty common knowledge that dinosaurs had feathers too yet no one gave Jurassic world any jip,



Most dinosaurs had scales, not feathers, fossil analysis concludes


----------



## 8115 (Oct 24, 2015)

I fucking hate historical doctor who's but I will soldier on.

I don't mind if they have some spooky element like the one in Venice with the bloodsucking vampires but this one isn't delivering.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2015)

8115 said:


> I fucking hate historical doctor who's but I will soldier on.
> 
> I don't mind if they have some spooky element like the one in Venice with the bloodsucking vampires but this one isn't delivering.


Seconded. All a bit earnest this one.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 24, 2015)

Please tell me this is not the new companion. She's basically a carbon copy of Clara.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2015)

Needs more robots [emoji57]


----------



## 8115 (Oct 24, 2015)

Aslan? Is that you?

I don't even know what's happening and that's only partly because of my plot following difficulties.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2015)

Ooh. Generic alien. That looks ridiculous.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2015)

She's got a point tbf.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2015)

#fuckyeahzygons


----------



## 8den (Oct 24, 2015)

8115 said:


> Please tell me this is not the new companion. She's basically a carbon copy of Clara.



Hardly unless GR Martin is a complete shit and kills Arya Stark.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2015)

best episode yet, only marred by some cunt who missed the bus to the Wizard of Oz convention


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 24, 2015)

Quite liked it, but for all that Williams is a big name, I'm not entirely sure that she carried the burden of immortality off with enough conviction. And yes, the lion was a bit crap, budget episode though.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 24, 2015)

8den said:


> Hardly unless GR Martin is a complete shit and kills Arya Stark.



He kills everybody, surely?


----------



## 8115 (Oct 24, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Quite liked it, but for all that Williams is a big name, I'm not entirely sure that she carried the burden of immortality off with enough conviction. And yes, the lion was a bit crap, budget episode though.


I was thinking, budget episode.


----------



## 8den (Oct 24, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> He kills everybody, surely?



If. He. Kills. Arya. There. Will. Be. War.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 24, 2015)

8den said:


> If. He. Kills. Arya. There. Will. Be. War.



I'm predicting Podrick will die. He's disposable enough and yet lovable enough to make everyone go Nooooo Pod!!!


----------



## binka (Oct 24, 2015)

i thought it was alright. the general quality of dr who is miles better than it was a few years ago. remember some of the real shit we had to put up with?


----------



## zoooo (Oct 24, 2015)

Aw, Captain Jack got a mention.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2015)

imagine ending up as the face of boe


----------



## zoooo (Oct 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> imagine ending up as the face of boe


 Poor Jack.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> imagine ending up as the face of boe


Coincidentally the voice of the Face of Boe played the old butler dude in tonight's episode. I know that cos I met the chap at a Doctor Who convention a couple of years ago.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 24, 2015)

Damn i was not  expecting the  Kilrathi to show up.


----------



## Pingu (Oct 24, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Damn i was not  expecting the  Kilrathi to show up.



no one expects the ...no wait thats another show.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 25, 2015)

Another good episode tonight, watched with both the grandkids who really enjoyed it.The grandson thought it was better than the viking one he thought that one was lame,and while I enjoyed last week's episode I do think this one was much better. I'm getting quite fond of capaldi's doctor


----------



## belboid (Oct 25, 2015)

Very good episode, mostly. Several nice nods to Michael Moorcock.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 25, 2015)

oh yeah, thing I most liked from the 'intense convos' bit crucial to Who- Maisie comparing his immortality and longevity to hers. The idea that she remembers little because a human brain only has so much storage space. And then that wicked little sting at the end where he sees her in the background of a photo on a device, zooms in to check.

A New Nemesis Arises! hopefully


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 25, 2015)

I like it when the Doctor is shown to be a bit of a dick, all told. For all his caring about humanity and protecting the earth, he doesn't half fuck over a lot of people in the process. The Grand Moff hardly ever held eleven to account, and that's part of why I very much disliked his incarnation, but he's doing it quite a bit with twelve, and the show is all the better for it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 25, 2015)

I'll also give props for about 58.4% of the gallows scene jokes.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 25, 2015)

Clara-lite episode 
But I enjoyed it very much, best episode of the series so far, didn't seem too much like a two-parter due to the time change, and sone of the lines re outliving everyone were devastating. Also the smoke at the end when he was thinking how eventually he'd leave Clara behind was a great touch


----------



## Knotted (Oct 25, 2015)

That was as tedious as an Allan Prior episode of Blake's 7. Big long discussion that was summed up in seconds at the end of the last episode. The irritating part of the last episode. Yes when you are immortal you watch all your friends and family die. We get it. We still get it. Are you still going on about it? Yes we get it. AHHHHHHH 

Also I know Dr Who has always been more science fantasy than science fiction but this episode lacked even an element of science fantasy. How does somebody dieing allow one to open up a portal to another planet? How does that even begin to work? Magic pixie lord of the rings crap. This is making me very annoyed.

And another thing. This lacked the horror element which is what makes Dr Who worth watching. Nothing spooky about it at all. Why would you want to do that? Why???

My patience is being stretched to the limit.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 25, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Clara-lite episode
> But I enjoyed it very much, best episode of the series so far, didn't seem too much like a two-parter due to the time change, and sone of the lines re outliving everyone were devastating. Also the smoke at the end when he was thinking how eventually he'd leave Clara behind was a great touch


Moffat must have decided they were doing to well on the Bechdel test.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 25, 2015)

Knotted said:


> That was as tedious as an Allan Prior episode of Blake's 7. Big long discussion that was summed up in seconds at the end of the last episode. The irritating part of the last episode. Yes when you are immortal you watch all your friends and family die. We get it. We still get it. Are you still going on about it? Yes we get it. AHHHHHHH
> 
> Also I know Dr Who has always been more science fantasy than science fiction but this episode lacked even an element of science fantasy. How does somebody dieing allow one to open up a portal to another planet? How does that even begin to work? Magic pixie lord of the rings crap. This is making me very annoyed.
> 
> ...


It would of been much better if it was produced by a race of pricks who made a deliberate choice to make it work like that. Perhaps similar implausible sacrifice tech could be put down to them deliberately seeding the universe with this stuff and difficult instructions to understand them in order to locate and destroy various threats. If you're smart and naughty enough to use it then your planet gets fucked.


----------



## dessiato (Oct 25, 2015)

Best episode so far. Harked back to some old characters and implied some things are to come.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 25, 2015)

Just caught up with it. I didn't really like that one. It was a bit boring. 

It sounded very much like they were setting up a spin off. I hope not.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 25, 2015)

I missed how Lion-O was killed, but I hope his lot never come back.


----------



## 8den (Oct 25, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Clara-lite episode
> But I enjoyed it very much, best episode of the series so far, didn't seem too much like a two-parter due to the time change, and sone of the lines re outliving everyone were devastating. Also the smoke at the end when he was thinking how eventually he'd leave Clara behind was a great touch



A Clara lite episode is a very good thing


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 25, 2015)

Clara always reminds me how much I miss Rose and Donna, if for no other reason than they weren't middle class.

More Roses and Donnas, please.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 25, 2015)

8den said:


> A Clara lite episode is a very good thing


I'll fight you


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 25, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Clara always reminds me how much I miss Rose and Donna, if for no other reason than they weren't middle class.
> 
> More Roses and Donnas, please.



God no. Donna was awful. (And Billie Piper's a posh 'un despite her aitch-dropping acting skills)


----------



## 8115 (Oct 25, 2015)

S☼I said:


> God no. Donna was awful. (And Billie Piper's a posh 'un despite her aitch-dropping acting skills)


Donna was amazing.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 25, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I missed how Lion-O was killed, but I hope his lot never come back.



Disappeared in a puff of phoned-in script.


----------



## 8den (Oct 25, 2015)

S☼I said:


> I'll fight you



Nothing against Jenna Coleman she seems lovely but the character of Clara Oswald is awful.


----------



## 8den (Oct 25, 2015)

8115 said:


> Donna was amazing.



Donna was great. Katherine Tate was shit.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 25, 2015)

Did Arya actually give a shit about the people or did she just want saving/The Doctor to leave her be?


----------



## belboid (Oct 25, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> Did Arya actually give a shit about the people or did she just want saving/The Doctor to leave her be?


We may well find out later, she's back for episode ten


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 25, 2015)

belboid said:


> We may well find out later, she's back for episode ten


I wondered when it would be.


----------



## 8den (Oct 25, 2015)

Wasn't wild about the episode. Wonderful concept for a character and Maise is a fantastic actor so interesting to see were this guys


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 26, 2015)

The grandkids enjoyed it so much they watched it again as soon as they got up this morning


----------



## Gromit (Oct 26, 2015)

Must remember kid's programme, must remember kid's programme. 

Sociopathic killer 1 second, all concerned 1 second later. Unconvinced this could have happened.


----------



## prunus (Oct 26, 2015)

ginger_syn said:


> The grandkids enjoyed it so much they watched it again as soon as they got up this morning



Kids here enjoyed it very much too - "no Clara makes a better episode". And it *is* a programme for kids, so I'd say they're doing it very well.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 26, 2015)

This episode merely reiterated why the Doctor would never have made a human immortal in the first place.  Particularly not some random schmoe he only just met.  But it was much better for having no Clara.  Capaldi works much better without Clara.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 26, 2015)

It's not a "programme for kids", by the way.  If it was, it wouldn't be on at 8:20pm.  It's a programme that aims to be something for everyone.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 26, 2015)

It's a family show (which means, aimed at kids) that has suffered in the schedules from BBC 1's greater love for a sinister dancing competition and its decidedly non-Reithian ambition to compete with a tawdry singing competition.


----------



## prunus (Oct 26, 2015)

kabbes said:


> It's not a "programme for kids", by the way.  If it was, it wouldn't be on at 8:20pm.  It's a programme that aims to be something for everyone.



Fair enough   I suppose I meant more that it's not trying to be a hyper-real gritty psychodrama for adults


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 26, 2015)

prunus said:


> Fair enough   I suppose I meant more that it's not trying to be a hyper-real gritty psychodrama for adults



The last such SF offering was the abysmal and fuckwitted Humans, of course.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 26, 2015)

prunus said:


> Fair enough   I suppose I meant more that it's not trying to be a hyper-real gritty psychodrama for adults


That doesn't mean we can forgive it a lack of verisimilitude though.  Something can be light and yet not comprise random and inconsistent capriciousness on the part of the main character.  It can be family friendly and yet still have internal logic.  It can be sci-fi without descending into the lowest end of fantastical nonsense.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 26, 2015)

To those who are saying their kids/ grandkids are enjoying it - what age are the kids?  Mine's seven and of reasonable intelligence and imagination, and this series has been largely incomprehensible to him so far. Too much waffling, too much of the meta stuff Moffat loves so much, too much emphasis on over-complex adult relationships.  I'm not saying any of those things shouldn't be in it - but I think they're striking the wrong balance at the moment.

On the plus side, I'm glad we've had stories unfold over a more realistic two episodes. My main gripe last series was the rushed denouements.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 26, 2015)

kabbes said:


> The Tivolians are ripped off something else but I can't quite place it.  Douglas Adams, probably, or Terry Pratchett



The Ameglian cow in Milliways that's been bred to want to be eaten?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

kabbes said:


> It's not a "programme for kids", by the way.  If it was, it wouldn't be on at 8:20pm.  It's a programme that aims to be something for everyone.


Indeed: it's a _family_ show. 

This was a boring episode of a very good series so far. 

(I wasn't impressed with Maisie's acting in the second part of the 2 parter. It was one of the poorest parts of the episode, after the script).


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> (I wasn't impressed with Maisie's acting in the second part of the 2 parter.).



Glad it wasn't just me. Reviewers everywhere disagree, though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Glad it wasn't just me. Reviewers everywhere disagree, though.


Those reviewers must have been watching something else.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

kabbes said:


> It can be sci-fi without descending into the lowest end of fantastical nonsense.


People often say on these threads that Dr Who is science fantasy rather than science fiction. I'm not very sure what that means. But if it means magic amulets that open portals by means of the death of a person (who can then be brought back to life by magic bindis), then I'm very much against this science fantasy thing.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 26, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> To those who are saying their kids/ grandkids are enjoying it - what age are the kids?  Mine's seven and of reasonable intelligence and imagination, and this series has been largely incomprehensible to him so far. Too much waffling, too much of the meta stuff Moffat loves so much, too much emphasis on over-complex adult relationships.  I'm not saying any of those things shouldn't be in it - but I think they're striking the wrong balance at the moment.
> 
> On the plus side, I'm glad we've had stories unfold over a more realistic two episodes. My main gripe last series was the rushed denouements.


My daughter is eight and enjoys it more than I do.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 26, 2015)

. . . . and I agree that Saturdays was a very boring episode.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 26, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> . . . . and I agree that Saturdays was a very boring episode.



I thought it was quite well constructed (though as someone else said Aschylda's 'Oh, I do care after all' realisation was a bit sudden) - just not much in the way of action.

I also thought Maisie was quite wooden, although maybe that was intentional, reflecting her emotional disconnection/disaffection? Because she seemed much more characterful in the previous episode.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 26, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Clara always reminds me how much I miss Rose and Donna, if for no other reason than they weren't middle class.
> 
> More Roses and Donnas, please.


You're in luck. Doctor Who: The Tenth Doctor Adventures! - News - Big Finish



> David Tennant is returning as the Tenth Doctor alongside Catherine Tate as his companion Donna Noble in three Doctor Who Audio Dramas!
> 
> David Tennant portrayed the Doctor on screen from 2005 until 1 January 2010, returning to play alongside Matt Smith and John Hurt in the 50th Anniversary special _The Day of the Doctor_ in 2013. Catherine Tate made her debut as Donna in December 2006, and after a series and two festive specials she made her last appearance alongside David on 1 January 2010. Their on-screen partnership is generally regarded as one of the great high-points of the enduring science fiction phenomenon.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> I thought it was quite well constructed (though as someone else said Aschylda's 'Oh, I do care after all' realisation was a bit sudden) - just not much in the way of action.
> 
> I also thought Maisie was quite wooden, although maybe that was intentional, reflecting her emotional disconnection/disaffection? Because she seemed much more characterful in the previous episode.


There was too much _tell_ and almost no _show. _That's just bad writing. (It's been a bit of a repeated fault this series, actually. Though I've liked the series as a whole as it happens). Dialogue shouldn't serve as stage directions or the actors' character motivation notes.  The audience should be able to deduce motivation from what happens, not have to be expressly told it.

When an episode becomes all tell and no show, that's when it gets boring. And no amount of explosions or flashing lights in the sky will make up for that.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

I've said it before that Katherine Tate didn't know what TARDIS Stands nor did she know that the Doctors name wasn't "Who". She didn't even know these things after playing Donna.

She doesn't deserve to be a companion.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 26, 2015)

8den said:


> I've said it before that Katherine Tate didn't know what TARDIS Stands nor did she know that the Doctors name wasn't "Who". She didn't even know these things after playing Donna.
> 
> She doesn't deserve to be a companion.


And you've been told Donna didn't either.


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 26, 2015)

8den said:


> I've said it before that Katherine Tate didn't know what TARDIS Stands nor did she know that the Doctors name wasn't "Who". She didn't even know these things after playing Donna.
> 
> She doesn't deserve to be a companion.



She's an actress who played a great companion. I don't think it matters in the slightest.


----------



## Pingu (Oct 26, 2015)

they should do a "dark doctor who" for adults too. like what they did with batman. just a one off though a whole series would be shite


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 26, 2015)

What, Torchwood?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 26, 2015)

Not been very impressed by any of this season really, Capaldi is knocking it out of the park and putting in a great set of performances but the stories and plots are just... damp



8den said:


> I've said it before that Katherine Tate didn't know what TARDIS Stands nor did she know that the Doctors name wasn't "Who". She didn't even know these things after playing Donna.
> 
> She doesn't deserve to be a companion.



*smallest violin*

Perhaps thats why she was actually fairly good and her character grew as the episodes went on, rather than being a fawning numpty like most of the other companions have been since the reboot.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> And you've been told Donna didn't either.



That's not method.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> What, Torchwood?



No toad face git with alien date rape drugs


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 26, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> What, Torchwood?


No. Children of Earth aside I still consider the Sarah Jane Adventures to be a more grown up drama. Most of Torchwood was kiddie shit dressed up with a bit of swearing and some dull as fuck sex scenes.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Not been very impressed by any of this season really, Capaldi is knocking it out of the park and putting in a great set of performances but the stories and plots are just... damp
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I liked Donna as a companion. I hated Katherine Tates hysterical shrill delivery of her dialogue.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 26, 2015)

8den said:


> I liked Donna as a companion. I hated Katherine Tates hysterical shrill delivery of her dialogue.



You were meant to, she started off as a shrieking harridan, by the end she became older and wiser and much more toned down. 

At least until the final moments anyway.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 26, 2015)

The love story between Rani and Clyde is a thousand times better written then any of that shit with Jack,Gwen,Ianto and Rhys.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

Rose was petite bourgoisie- she made her BF wash the cup properly rather than just rinse it out under the tap 


danny la rouge said:


> I'm not very sure what that means.



theres no laws in stone but generally it means Doctor Who, Star Wars and so on. Time travel as far as we know is sort of impossible (theres something about vibrating wormholes at near _c_ to get to the past. But I haven't the physics to know if them eggheads are just trolling). But taken as a possible concept and explored in the way Primer does- that we can call sci fi reasonably enough. The minute its an immortal flying a pocket universe around with a blue police box front end on it, well we are solidly in fantasy.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> You were meant to, she started off as a shrieking harridan, by the end she became older and wiser and much more toned down.
> 
> At least until the final moments anyway.



No she was just annoying on every level.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

also children of earth contained a man on man sex scene so thorough it was educational- there's your reithian values maurice


Maurice Picarda said:


> Glad it wasn't just me. Reviewers everywhere disagree, though.



M.Williams is massive at the moment. She'd get good reviews for reading out the bus time table. Regardless of that, I thought she was good. Another triumph of an episode, by all means haters, hate. You're all wrong and history will vindicate me


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> People often say on these threads that Dr Who is science fantasy rather than science fiction. I'm not very sure what that means. But if it means magic amulets that open portals by means of the death of a person (who can then be brought back to life by magic bindis), then I'm very much against this science fantasy thing.



Generally Science Fiction means "Makes sense and operates roughly according to the laws of reality and nature whilst science and tech is an intrinsic part of the story" 

Star Wars is Science Fantasy

Star Trek errs on the side of Sci-fi

2001 is full on hardcore Sci-fi


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Rose was petite bourgoisie- she made her BF wash the cup properly rather than just rinse it out under the tap
> 
> 
> theres no laws in stone but generally it means Doctor Who, Star Wars and so on. Time travel as far as we know is sort of impossible (theres something about vibrating wormholes at near _c_ to get to the past. But I haven't the physics to know if them eggheads are just trolling). But taken as a possible concept and explored in the way Primer does- that we can call sci fi reasonably enough. The minute its an immortal flying a pocket universe around with a blue police box front end on it, well we are solidly in fantasy.


I must be misunderstand "science fiction". I thought it mean "contains fictional science".


----------



## Gromit (Oct 26, 2015)

Gah Torchwood. Someone say's the brief is Doc Who but adult and so what do they do?

Put a load of relationship drama bollocks in. 
Sex. 
Bi sexual and homosexuality to add ooh look we got edge. 

The usual unimaginative brainstorming ideas of those who think that's what makes a programme really 'adult'. 

All they really needed to do was make it scarier, gore, allow swearing, less happy ending oriented and more complex plots.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I must be misunderstand "science fiction". I thought it mean "contains fictional science".


well, compare say Egan, Asimov and Watts to say Neal Asher, EE doc Smith or heinlen. Like I say its not written in stone anywhere, but you should be able to make the distinction. If not, just ask and I'll let you know where it is on the spectrum


----------



## Gromit (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> M.Williams is massive at the moment. She'd get good reviews for reading out the bus time table.


I'd probably watch that. 

I've watched her YouTube show appearances. Teens React is it?


----------



## Gromit (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> If not, just ask and I'll let you know where it is on the spectrum



The Tory manifesto?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> well, compare say Egan, Asimov and Watts to say Neal Asher, EE doc Smith or heinlen.




I'm unable to, sorry.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

Gromit said:


> The Tory manifesto?


written in the Black Speech of Mordor, expects the dead to work, so I'm saying fantasy


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

I don't think doctor who under Moffat is "science fantasy"  because he simply doesn't apply internal consist logic to his world. It's very much "this is the solution to the problem because I wrote it" 

All good fiction should adhere to its own internal logic and RtD and to a great extent Moffat just use a deus ex machina ending. The most grievous ending is turning the Doctor into "magic Dobby Jesus" at the finale of John Simms arc.


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2015)

8den said:


> I've said it before that Katherine Tate didn't know what TARDIS Stands nor did she know that the Doctors name wasn't "Who". She didn't even know these things after playing Donna.


you really think those statements were actually true? They always struck me as something to say to grab a headline (probably on Moffat's say so)


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

8den said:


> I don't think doctor who under Moffat is "science fantasy"  because he simply doesn't apply internal consist logic to his world. It's very much "this is the solution to the problem because I wrote it"
> 
> All good fiction should adhere to its own internal logic and RtD and to a great extent Moffat just use a deus ex machina ending. The most grievous ending is turning the Doctor into "magic Dobby Jesus" at the finale of John Simms arc.



ah but what came before was so glorious it was forgiven. By me. And I'm the one wit a massive seal of rassilon tatooed on my back so I have the higher ground anakin


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

belboid said:


> you really think those statements were actually true? They always struck me as something to say to grab a headline (probably on Moffat's say so)



She said them on "never mind the buzzcocks" and frankly if they were a lie they were delivered with greater acting chops than Tate managed through out her stint on Who


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2015)

8den said:


> She said them on "never mind the buzzcocks" and frankly if they were a lie they were delivered with greater acting chops than Tate managed through out her stint on Who


when she was pissed, yes.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

belboid said:


> when she was pissed, yes.



So the key for Tates acting greatest is several stiff drinks?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

Have we discussed Dr Who novels before? 

Which are the best? What's the best of the Target novels? Are they any replacement for the missing episodes?

What of the newer ones? Gatis et al?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Have we discussed Dr Who novels before?
> 
> Which are the best? What's the best of the Target novels? Are they any replacement for the missing episodes?
> 
> What of the newer ones? Gatis et al?


this is your best place for Who fiction:

A Teaspoon And An Open Mind :: A Doctor Who Fan Fiction Archive



but the novelisations of Pyramids of Mars and Mawdryn Undead are the best of that. Theres some excellent Virgin New/Missing adventures also. The 7nth doctors Land of Fiction stuff was great. If you want radio plays you want Big Audio Finish which has done tons including lots of paul mcgann ones apparently. I haven't listened to them because that special-while mgann was good- was so balls it set back the cause of Who and extended the interregenum by a solid 2 years. imo


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

Lungbarrow is a good read if a bit...non canonical. But Who canon is made up as it goes along so it doesn't matter, a flying fuck not given.


----------



## Pingu (Oct 26, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> What, Torchwood?



no a proper dr who one with the dr etc. and proper dark... cthulu dark


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

Read a few target novels when a young un and  remember them being decent companions to the episodes

Got  into  the  new adventure  series especially when  forbidden planet  started selling them at £1.50 because  the licence was  returning to the  beeb  in time for the telemovie.   they were so-so.  when they were good they were  really really  good  and  when they  were  bad  they  were almost  comical. It was rather  like what  plagued  the   new series.  they often disappeared up their own arse  trying to   be serious  and  gritty  and  daring.  I  much preferred the  missing adventure stuff  which  had   more of the classic who spirit injected into them.  Never m anaged to   read that many of them  but  i like the ones i did  read.
I got  into  the  new  8th doctor books  especially  as  the  first  one  basically was the doctor  looking back at the tv-movie  and saying "Jesus  Christ  what the fuck was I on?  Half human?  Fucking hell   this makes choking a bitch look positively sane!" So basically retconning the  worst parts of that movie.  I really like a  couple of the first books  but then  they also  started	getting  a bit  shitty.  I didn't  even make it  to the   end run of the first companion.  Bring back  Chris and Roz all is forgiven*.



*well maybe not everything


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Lungbarrow is a good read if a bit...non canonical. But Who canon is made up as it goes along so it doesn't matter, a flying fuck not given.


Ah, it's non canonical because it's the so-called "seventh Doctor". You know very well that I'm an Octavian.

("Only the First Four and the Latest Four are real - excepting the War Doctor, who shall be allowed. So help me God").


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Lungbarrow is a good read if a bit...non canonical. But Who canon is made up as it goes along so it doesn't matter, a flying fuck not given.



One  of the worst sins  of the new  series  was   shitting  on  rassilon  from a great height.   I refuse to believe that's him in the show. It must be a ruse.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah, it's non canonical because it's the so-called "seventh Doctor". You know very well that I'm an Octavian.
> 
> ("Only the First Four and the Latest Four are real - excepting the War Doctor, who shall be allowed. So help me God").



I really like  Davison and McCoy.  I think when they are on form  they are excellent doctors.   I even think  Col has  his moments.	small moments  you still have to  watch wearing  shades   but moments.   Even  the  guy whose  face I have on a dart board  has managed to redeem himself  a fair bit.

Yeah  they all had bad  bits  but   all of  doctor who has   bad bits.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I really like  Davison and McCoy.  I think when they are on form  they are excellent doctors.   I even think  Col has  his moments.	small moments  you still have to  watch wearing  shades   but moments.   Even  the  guy whose  face I have on a dart board  has managed to redeem himself  a fair bit.
> 
> Yeah  they all had bad  bits  but   all of  doctor who has   bad bits.


I never saw them, though. I stopped watching after (the real) Baker left, then rejoined with Ecclescake. (I don't count McGann, which I did watch but am trying to forget).


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

I have a theory that Colin Baker only got that fat due to his habit of chewing on the scenery.

I know  Tom ate  even more  but  he's skinny due to the  fact  he had to carry the whole show a lot of the time.

Also the  6-7th doctor  regeneration was so traumatic  the  entire  show  got  regeneration sickness  for the  24th series. The 25th was a bit shaky too.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I never saw them, though. I stopped watching after (the real) Baker left, then rejoined with Ecclescake. (I don't count McGann, which I did watch but am trying to forget).



wouldn't it make  more  sense  just to  skip straight  to  Tennant  then  in your  headcanon? I mean  I have  nothing against  Eccy  but  he was  a mediocre doctor at best.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> wouldn't it make  more  sense  just to  skip straight  to  Tennant  then  in your  headcanon? I mean  I have  nothing against  Eccy  but  he was  a mediocre doctor at best.


I liked him. And his stories were good.
He was better than Smith.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah, it's non canonical because it's the so-called "seventh Doctor". You know very well that I'm an Octavian.
> 
> ("Only the First Four and the Latest Four are real - excepting the War Doctor, who shall be allowed. So help me God").


Pyramids of Mars fits into your ceasar-denying bizarre system, its the good Baker. I read it on library loan before seeing the actual story on screen. Enjoyed the book more. You have to understand how hard it was, to be in the flush of youth when Mcoy was a distant memory and Ecclescake a distant, hoped for dream. You had to get by with novels, radio plays and Doctor Who Magazine. These were dark days for a Who fan. I'd liken it to the decline of the celtic christian church, before the coming of rome. Old who is basically aligned to Iona in this analogy whereas new who is the pomp and majesty of Rome.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Pyramids of Mars fits into your ceasar-denying bizarre system, its the good Baker. I read it on library loan before seeing the actual story on screen. Enjoyed the book more. You have to understand how hard it was, to be in the flush of youth when Mcoy was a distant memory and Ecclescake a distant, hoped for dream. You had to get by with novels, radio plays and Doctor Who Magazine. These were dark days for a Who fan. I'd liken it to the decline of the celtic christian church, before the coming of rome. Old who is basically aligned to Iona in this analogy whereas new who is the pomp and majesty of Rome.


I recorded the Pyramids of Mars off one of those mad channels when it was showing old Who. I enjoyed it very much.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I really like  Davison and McCoy.  I think when they are on form  they are excellent doctors.   I even think  Col has  his moments.	small moments  you still have to  watch wearing  shades   but moments.   Even  the  guy whose  face I have on a dart board  has managed to redeem himself  a fair bit.
> 
> Yeah  they all had bad  bits  but   all of  doctor who has   bad bits.


I still rate Greatest Show in the Galaxy, the hand of Omega stuff and yes, even Hapiness Patrol.

He was my doctor. A schemer and an arsehole but always for the greater good. Negged on Ace a lot tho, that wasn't his best trait


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> his stories were good.



We'll  have to agree to disagree on that.  I though Dalek was good  and   the empty child/doctor dances were pretty good  but  I really  though the  rest  were kinda poor through to  terrible.

The main problem I felt  with him was   he didn't feel like a doctor.  While each doctor  is supposed to  bring something new to the table  I think they also should show a certain  similarity.  It is after all the same person. I really didn't  get that   in him.  Plus  he fucked off before   any real character development could happen.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I still rate Greatest Show in the Galaxy, the hand of Omega stuff and yes, even Hapiness Patrol.
> 
> He was my doctor. A schemer and an arsehole but always for the greater good. Negged on Ace a lot tho, that wasn't his best trait



I bloody love McCoy   but  when you compare Battlefeild, Curse of fenric, and Survival to the earlier story's  they  feel a bit lacking. 

Actually the only  season 24 story i kinda enjoyed  was  paradise towers.  Mel = Kiss of death


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Eccy  but  he was  a mediocre doctor at best.



Compared to the shit show that was Tennant descending into Rose love and the idiocy of Smith (and the over long Amy Pond companionship) he was amazing.

Stern, with a bit of an edge to him, while still having a few funny moments.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

ecclescake will always have a place in my heart for his reaction to seeing that chained up dalek in the mad collectors collection. He did it brilliant. A mix of fear and childish spiteful glee delivered perfectly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)




----------



## kabbes (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> ecclescake will always have a place in my heart for his reaction to seeing that chained up dalek in the mad collectors collection. He did it brilliant. A mix of fear and childish spiteful glee delivered perfectly.


That was brilliant.

And literally all I remember him being good in.  I think it was scripts rather than acting, but cheesy grins and "fantastic" do not a doctor make.  I originally gave up after three of that series.  It was only Tenant that got me back into it.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

See also  any episode featuring the Slitheen.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

I love Eccles a very underrated doctor. 

Best thing about the Mc Cann doctor was the TARDIS design.


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I bloody love McCoy   but  when you compare Battlefeild, Curse of fenric, and Survival to the earlier story's  they  feel a bit lacking.
> 
> Actually the only  season 24 story i kinda enjoyed  was  paradise towers.  Mel = Kiss of death


I was very surprised by just how good Curse of Fenric was when I saw it earlier this year. Actually a lot better than many of the 'classic' period stories, proper creepy and well paced. It forced me to accept that I had been overly harsh on McCoy, despite the many problems of his era.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

McCoy  had  some of the  best and some of the  worst.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

Is it just me  or  does new who drain the history out of the historically  set  episodes.  They either seem to  be half comedies  or  just fancy set dressing.
I mean I know DW stopped  doing the  educational history stuff  nearly right away   but  I seem to remember  them making a bit more of a deal  of actually being in history.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 26, 2015)

Bring back Missy.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

Who on earth thinks Eccles wasn't a great doctor he had a few duff scripts but "the empty child" , "Father's Day" & "Dalek" are all first rate episodes.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 26, 2015)

8den said:


> Who on earth thinks Eccles wasn't a great doctor he had a few duff scripts but "the empty child" , "Father's Day" & "Dalek" are all first rate episodes.



Eccles was the best of the reboot Doctors. All subsequent Docs owe him a great debt of gratitude for SUCCESSFULLY reviving the franchise (when some previous efforts bombed).
That puts him joint favourite with Tom Baker for best ever doctor. I'd like to say top best ever Doctor but childhood me rated Tom for so long that I can't depose him.

I was so pissed that he deliberately quit after 1 series cause he didn't want to be type cast.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

8den said:


> Who on earth thinks Eccles wasn't a great doctor he had a few duff scripts but "the empty child" , "Father's Day" & "Dalek" are all first rate episodes.



Yeah but they would have been good with any other doctor. Better in my opinion.

I'm not saying he's a bad actor  I just don't rate him as the doctor.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Is it just me  or  does new who drain the history out of the historically  set  episodes.  They either seem to  be half comedies  or  just fancy set dressing.
> I mean I know DW stopped  doing the  educational history stuff  nearly right away   but  I seem to remember  them making a bit more of a deal  of actually being in history.


I love the history ones. I know they're never straight history,  but I like them set in history. What's the point if time travel if you don't travel in time? (Space could be any time).


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 26, 2015)

Eccles was good with the drama, but uncomfortable with the lighter moments and humour.


Gromit said:


> I was so pissed that he deliberately quit after 1 series cause he didn't want to be type cast.


Hasn't he subsequently come out and said it was to do with the management and treatment of crew?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I was so pissed that he deliberately quit after 1 series cause he didn't want to be type cast.



I was annoyed too.  He had potential. I just don't think it went very far in a single season.


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Hasn't he subsequently come out and said it was to do with the management and treatment of crew?


Yes, all very vague, non-specific. He was, reportedly, highly pissed off at the 'type cast' nonsense


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I love the history ones. I know they're never straight history,  but I like them set in history. What's the point if time travel if you don't travel in time? (Space could be any time).



I like the idea of historical stories and enjoy old who historical stories I just find it difficult to think of new who historical stories that I thought were well done.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I like the idea of historical stories and enjoy old who historical stories I just find it difficult to think of new who historical stories that I thought were well done.


Are you my mummy.
Shakespeare.
Van Gogh.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I was annoyed too.  He had potential. I just don't think it went very far in a single season.



Considering how bad the 1st season of so many great shows is (1st season Buffy for example) I think he did remarkably well. 

And from my understanding he was justified in leaving.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

vampires of venice


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Are you my mummy.
> Shakespeare.
> Van Gogh.



The Van Gogh one is actually a good pick.   Actual  bits of history  integral to the plot.  Nice.   Kinda pity they had to add in the monster.

The Shakespeare one i would have watched  but  even after reading the  wiki i can't remember it.  

Ok this will sound nitpicky  but  the TEC/TDD two parter was historically set  but  this was kind of one  where  it  felt  somewhat  more  like set dressing.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> vampires of venice


This was  the one that instantly  sprang to mind  when  I  was thinking  of  why historical new who leaves me a little cold.

Yeah it's set in venice  but   it  doesn't really  feel like it  does much with that fact except have  canals  and nice sets. 

I want them  to  maybe  have a bit more about the setting in the show.

Bring back a touch more of the educational bit of who.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Ok this will sound nitpicky  but  the TEC/TDD two parter was historically set  but  this was kind of one  where  it  felt  somewhat  more  like set dressing.


it does sound nit picky!

The girl feeding a band of kids under cover of air raids?  Black market spivs? The whole thing was very well integrated into the blitz, I thought.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

You're probably right on this one. 

I think  my feeling on that  episode  are more to  do with me  missing it  when it was first on  then   having every one  hype it up massively  so when I did watch it  and  found it to be only quite good  it  tinged the episode with  disappointment.

Also when it comes to historical settings  WWII is a little  worn out.

Don't get me started on the one  with the WWII daleks


----------



## Gromit (Oct 26, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Eccles was good with the drama, but uncomfortable with the lighter moments and humour.
> Hasn't he subsequently come out and said it was to do with the management and treatment of crew?



I'm guessing...
Eccles liked the dark stuff so thats obviously how he wanted to play it. The producers felt differently and so thats why we ended up with that Tennant crap.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

Actually I do kinda miss the  episodes  when  being in that time period  was the adventure. Bring back the pure  historical stories.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Actually I do kinda miss the  episodes  when  being in that time period  was the adventure. Bring back the pure  historical stories.



You like historical ones?
How about one on WWII Darleks? I'll campaign the producers for you.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

Gromit said:


> You like historical ones?
> How about one on WWII Darleks? I'll campaign the producers for you.





Shippou-Sensei said:


> Also when it comes to historical settings  WWII is a little  worn out.
> 
> Don't get me started on the one  with the WWII daleks



I was thinking more along the lines of


These days you might even get some mezzo american actors too


----------



## prunus (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Ok this will sound nitpicky  but  the TEC/TDD two parter was historically set  but  this was kind of one  where  it  felt  somewhat  more  like set dressing.



I would disagree with you, on a number of lines, not least the idea of a lost child looking for its mummy is perfectly fitted for the London blitz, but regardless of whether that argument is valid or not: this pair of episodes are in my opinion among the pinnacle of New Who. The fear of the empty child embedded itself in my kids minds for months, and this effect is one I find sadly missing from the reboot as an adult.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 26, 2015)

S☼I said:


> God no. Donna was awful. (And Billie Piper's a posh 'un despite her aitch-dropping acting skills)



Billie Piper isn't the same as Rose. Rose worked in a chippy and lived on an estate. Clara was a fucking live-in nanny.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

I still can't bring myself to like Rose.  She started out  somewhat tolerable  but was the first victim in the new who craze of making the  companion the most important person  in the universe. Worse  was the romance stuff.  I simply  can't buy  that  of all the people  The Doctor has met  his one true love is fucking rose fucking tylor gahhhh.  
Also given she's somewhere in her late teens early twenties it  has a bit of an age difference thing.  she's about  500 years young  for the half your age plus seven rule


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> the half your age plus seven rule


Only works when you're 14.

I hate the companion being the most important person in the universe thing too. What's wrong with "is a journalist"? Or "is good at maths"?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

Or  is Scottish.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Only works when you're 14.
> 
> I hate the companion being the most important person in the universe thing too. What's wrong with "is a journalist"? Or "is good at maths"?



I agree wholeheartedly. This is why I hated hated hated Clara at first. But, I must say, since Capaldi she's improved now she's just a teacher who goes on adventures.

I'll never forgive Moffat for inserting Clara so thoroughly into the Doctor's timeline, to the point where _she_ was the one responsible for him picking his TARDIS   

I'm okay with the idea that a companion _becomes_ great, though, through their deeds. Spending all that time with the Doctor would have a profound effect on someone, and since he always ends up being at the centre of super important historical life-changing events it seems acceptable that his companion would play a part. 

Despite her being the rebound companion who had to have ridiculously shit puppy dog eyes bullshit foist upon her, I liked Martha a lot because she chose to leave, at the end, because she'd had enough. And she was capable of going on and being just as bad ass with the skills she'd developed and the experiences she'd had while travelling with the Doctor, but on her own terms. 

I loved Donna because she was "just a temp" who was bothered by all the stuff most of us are bothered about -- need to get a job, mother getting on her wick, so-and-so said _what_ about me? How dare she? I'll show her. Etc. There was none of the romance bollocks, she was the Doctor's travelling companion and she acted as his moral compass, casting her eye over what he was doing on our behalf. She kept him honest. And when it came down to it, when she ended up becoming 'special' it was pure chance, becoming the Doctor Donna, and bringing the great bits of her to the great bits of him -- but that's what she'd been doing throughout the whole series, complimenting the best of the Doctor with the bits he lacked and needed help with. That's when a companion is at their best, when they round out the Doctor and show where he lacks. The Doctor is at his best when he's flawed, but only if there's something to show us why that's important.

I like Rose because she went on lots of capers, it all felt very new (because it was) and exciting. I hate how her story ended, with her own special Doctor clone. I was more than happy with how it 'ended' before that - her and her family away in the other dimension. I didn't mind that she got her dad back -- still being sad as hell that I've lost my dad 19 years after the fact I'm not in a position to turn around and say it was bollocks, she's a lucky fucker and I wish I could have that. I'm okay with the idea that the Doctor will fall in love, I just don't want it to be a part of every companion's story.

I hate Amy's time as companion because I disliked how she was written, I disliked the dynamic between her and the Doctor, and I really take umbrage at some of the stories she was given. I didn't mind River as a character, but again the stories she was given, her entire reason for existing, encapsulates the same problem I have with Amy. Wife, mother, daughter, entire life's existence in thrall to this man in his box. Fucking bollocks.


----------



## 8den (Oct 26, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I'm guessing...
> Eccles liked the dark stuff so thats obviously how he wanted to play it. The producers felt differently and so thats why we ended up with that Tennant crap.



Your guess is wrong. Even with information in the public domain you're off. 

He didn't like some episodes and some dialogue he's stated that he's unhappy with his performance of some of his comedy dialogue. 

As I understand it he was annoyed at the cult of personality around RTD.


----------



## Santino (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Also given she's somewhere in her late teens early twenties it  has a bit of an age difference thing.  she's about  500 years young  for the half your age plus seven rule


But she ended up with the Doctor clone who was about 2 hours old when they met.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> But she ended up with the Doctor clone who was about 2 hours old when they met.


Great so now she's a pedo too.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Wife, mother, daughter, entire life's existence in thrall to this* man* in his box. Fucking bollocks.


gallifreyan. Not truly a man as we understand things any more than missy is a woman just because she wears a womans frame in this incarnation. They are not human. I realise thats a massive get out and doesn't excuse some of the worst..I mean Amy ended up as a model ffs when she'd been across time and space battling evil but is now back in a defined gender role.

but yeah. We anthropomorphise the doc a lot I think which is why its so weird to realise that the time lord population, whatever skin they wear, are absolute bastards. The doc is an abberation to this, his fingernail grip on decency is unusual.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

Rather than bastards I would lean towards isolationist  with a tendency towards  barsterdyness.   I mean Susan and Romana were OK too.


But Amy's  whole shtick was more the fault of  the script than  time lord dickery


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> The Van Gogh one is actually a good pick.   Actual  bits of history  integral to the plot.  Nice.   Kinda pity they had to add in the monster.


Tish and tosh. It was the best monster of the entire reboot (weeping angels losing out cos of their later appearances). Wonderfully done


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Not truly a man as we understand things any more than missy is a woman just because she wears a womans frame in this incarnation. They are not human.


Germaine, is that you?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

It was a perfectly acceptable monster  but  the episode didn't need it.  Imagine  you had   the van gogh  episode  just be about him and then had a  diffrent episode entierly about that monster with  just  some randoms


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2015)

belboid said:


> Germaine, is that you?



you know what I mean. You can't judge a gallifreyan by human standards. Well, you can if you like but eventually you run up against the point that it wears a human shape but it is not human and never was


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> It was a perfectly acceptable monster  but  the episode didn't need it.  Imagine  you had   the van gogh  episode  just be about him and then had a  diffrent episode entierly about that monster with  just  some randoms


But it did, because that was Van Gogh's real monster. It couldn't be an episode about VG without that very monster. It made it one of, not just the greatest Doctor Who's ever, but one of the very best BBC 45 minute drama's ever.  I thought the monster was tonally  pretty bloody perfect, and, I might be a mawkish sod, but the ending was wonderful.


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> you know what I mean. You can't judge a gallifreyan by human standards. Well, you can if you like but eventually you run up against the point that it wears a human shape but it is not human and never was


Sorry, irresistible.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

belboid said:


> But it did, because that was Van Gogh's real monster. It couldn't be an episode about VG without that very monster. It made it one of, not just the greatest Doctor Who's ever, but one of the very best BBC 45 minute drama's ever.  I thought the monster was tonally  pretty bloody perfect, and, I might be a mawkish sod, but the ending was wonderful.



?  why does the story of a painter need a space alien to make it work ?


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> ?  why does the story of a painter need a space alien to make it work ?


magnificent analogy.

Space aliens?  They're not real. Just get over it.

Except, _it is._


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2015)

Not feeling that one.


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Not feeling that one.


As an analogy for depression, I really, _really, _thought it worked. Something no one else can see, that just seems stupid and makes no sense. But is all too real.

It's the best BBC, 45 minute, family drama, about depression, yet made.

You might be able to tell, I _really _liked that episode.


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2015)

Really


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Are you my mummy.
> Shakespeare.
> Van Gogh.


Girl In the Fireplace


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 27, 2015)

I can kind of see it when you describe it  but I didn't see it when I watched the episode.

When I watched the episode it  just came across as monster  of the week  in an episode that didn't need one.

It goes back to my original question.  why can't  we  have  a historical episode   which  y'know   take place in history  and  not  history  plus  space aliens. 

Doctor who has plenty of the latter  and  some variety would be nice.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 27, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> To those who are saying their kids/ grandkids are enjoying it - what age are the kids?  Mine's seven and of reasonable intelligence and imagination, and this series has been largely incomprehensible to him so far. Too much waffling, too much of the meta stuff Moffat loves so much, too much emphasis on over-complex adult relationships.  I'm not saying any of those things shouldn't be in it - but I think they're striking the wrong balance at the moment.
> 
> On the plus side, I'm glad we've had stories unfold over a more realistic two episodes. My main gripe last series was the rushed denouements.


The two oldest grandkids are eight, they will ask questions if they don't understand something but mostly they can keep up and are really enjoying the series so far,more than I thought they would really, the two year old understands none of it, though she recognises a dalek when she sees one and likes playing with the voice changing cyber mask we've got though it's a bit disturbing to see when she puts it on.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> It goes back to my original question. why can't we have a historical episode which y'know take place in history and not history plus space aliens.


why is the Doc even there if there isn't evil aliens to be defeated. It'd be like all them times he goes and has a nice dinner on Alderaan 5. Fair play to him, hope the wine menu was good, but its not the makings of an episode is it. Although I would totally watch Capaldi do a Come Dine With Me. In character as Malcom Tucker.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 27, 2015)

He  could be doing the touristy thing  he claims he  does all the time  but we never see.  He could  then be caught up in an historical event  and  we could either see the drama of these event play out   or perhaps even   see  the doctor have to play johnny b goode  so clara's parents get together at the hight school dance.


wait...


----------



## kabbes (Oct 27, 2015)

The historical ones are the best ones.  I think it's because the writers are not generally died-in-the-wool sci-fi writers, with the result that when they do future stuff, they use a lots of cliches and rework other people's ideas, only worse.  But when they do historical stuff, it plays to their strengths more.

Saying that, my favourite ever (double) episode was The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit.  I thought everything came together beautifully there, and that was a future one.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 27, 2015)

ginger_syn said:


> The two oldest grandkids are eight, they will ask questions if they don't understand something but mostly they can keep up and are really enjoying the series so far,more than I thought they would really, the two year old understands none of it, though she recognises a dalek when she sees one and likes playing with the voice changing cyber mask we've got though it's a bit disturbing to see when she puts it on.



 The dog is absolutely fucking terrified of bob_jr when he puts his Darth Vader mask on.


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I can kind of see it when you describe it  but I didn't see it when I watched the episode.
> 
> When I watched the episode it  just came across as monster  of the week  in an episode that didn't need one.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean, and as a generalisation, you're right.  But in this particular episode, an invisible monster, that was real, was required. Funky aliens do fit the bill in that circumstance.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> you know what I mean. You can't judge a gallifreyan by human standards. Well, you can if you like but eventually you run up against the point that it wears a human shape but it is not human and never was



It is a get-out though, because we know the Moff didn't have all of that in his mind when he was happily penning all that dreadful gender shite. And anyway, to the human companions at least he is a man. It's like the twats who go on and on about Liara in the Mass Effect games - "Oh but they're a monogendered race so she's not actually a woman and that's not actually a gay relationship and BLAH BLAH BLAH." Bullshit. She's designed and presented as typically feminine and sexy so that we, the audience, find her attractive as a woman. The internal consistency of the universe doesn't matter at all -- how it fits into what we, the audience, recognise and understand is what's important. No text exists in a vacuum -- it's a dialogue between what is set out in the fictional universe and what we expect in our real one. We interpret based on what's real to us.

Moffat's shit with Amy and River was fucking awful.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 27, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> It is a get-out though, because we know the Moff didn't have all of that in his mind when he was happily penning all that dreadful gender shite. And anyway, to the human companions at least he is a man. It's like the twats who go on and on about Liara in the Mass Effect games - "Oh but they're a monogendered race so she's not actually a woman and that's not actually a gay relationship and BLAH BLAH BLAH." Bullshit. She's designed and presented as typically feminine and sexy so that we, the audience, find her attractive as a woman. The internal consistency of the universe doesn't matter at all -- how it fits into what we, the audience, recognise and understand is what's important. No text exists in a vacuum -- it's a dialogue between what is set out in the fictional universe and what we expect in our real one. We interpret based on what's real to us.
> 
> Moffat's shit with Amy and River was fucking awful.


They're strong characters though because one made a Dalek scared and the other waved a sword around once. Even when they had an alternate future badass Amy she was defined by her relationship to the Doctor with some acknowledgment that she also had a husband.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 28, 2015)

Just got hold of the BBC audio book of Troughton's first story, Power of the Daleks. I'm excited to hear it. I'll be listening tonight while the rest of the family watches the Apprentice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 28, 2015)

belongs here:


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 28, 2015)

that actually worked for me.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Just got hold of the BBC audio book of Troughton's first story, Power of the Daleks. I'm excited to hear it. I'll be listening tonight while the rest of the family watches the Apprentice.
> 
> View attachment 78657


I heard the first three episodes. I'm glad the audio from the programmes survives.  

I'm a big fan of the Dictor making contraptions out of stuff. There should be more of that.

Hey, Moffatt, more Heath Robinson bodged together contraptions, please, and less waving around one catch all Sonic Panacea.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I heard the first three episodes. I'm glad the audio from the programmes survives.
> 
> I'm a big fan of the Dictor making contraptions out of stuff. There should be more of that.
> 
> Hey, Moffatt, more Heath Robinson bodged together contraptions, please, and less waving around one catch all Sonic Panacea.


I thought we might of been moving in that direction when the sonic went and again when the now repaired shades were put out of action. Could of suited the two part format without the time constraints that require a magic wand.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 29, 2015)

Yes, I was disappointed when the broken specs reappeared. 

But I do approve of the two parters.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 29, 2015)

Mcoy used to fuck the baddies up with his question mark brolly. Although my fave Mcoy moment is a book one where a goomba points a gun at him in a lift and he sticks his finger down the barrel and goes 'now what? it'll blow the barrel up. My hand, and yours'

Balls on him.


----------



## 8den (Oct 29, 2015)

Patrick McNee used to say of John Steed. "It takes a smart man to bring a umbrella to a gunfight"


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 30, 2015)

No full series next year, just some seasonal specials. Boo. Also, hiss.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 30, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> No full series next year, just some seasonal specials. Boo. Also, hiss.


Confirmed?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 30, 2015)

Yes, confirmed.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 30, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> Confirmed?



Subject to timey-wimey resets and so on.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 30, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yes, confirmed.


Fuck sake this is why people get fed up and stop watching. Last years was the first series shown in its entirety in one continuous run for 3 years and was shown at a different time of year to what people were used to and now they're fucking around again.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 30, 2015)

He's said it's because he's too busy with other projects.

MAYBE REPLACE THE FUCKER THEN.

Who doesn't belong to him, but if fucking feels like it these days.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 31, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> He's said it's because he's too busy with other projects.
> 
> MAYBE REPLACE THE FUCKER THEN.
> 
> Who doesn't belong to him, but if fucking feels like it these days.


He wanted the fucking job if he is not upto it he should step aside and let someone who gives a fuck run it.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 31, 2015)

Not a brilliant one, this.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 31, 2015)

A good one this.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 31, 2015)

Not quite sure what was going on there really.

e2a: Osgood ftw.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 31, 2015)

I loved it, but I can't work out for the life of me if he's playing up to reactionary bullshit or critiquing it.

Or being a cynical cunt for the ratings and doing both.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 31, 2015)

He really wasn't very fucking subtle with it, at any rate.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 31, 2015)

Anyone else think the Zygon flag and the propaganda videos all felt a bit too ISIS-y?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 31, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anyone else think the Zygon flag and the propaganda videos all felt a bit too ISIS-y?



That was the intention, surely?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 31, 2015)

It's the Immigrant ISIS panic episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anyone else think the Zygon flag and the propaganda videos all felt a bit too ISIS-y?


the talk of radicalisation of a certain faction and the 20 million within etc- it was not exactly the lightest of allegories.

Still, hopefully next week it will all come good and all involved will let zygons be zygons


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 31, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> That was the intention, surely?



Well yeah but is that really a good road for a family TV show to be going down? The way it was done too, with the idea of lots of muderous villains hiding amongst us in plain sight, didn't seem helpful either. The more I think about it, the dodgier it gets


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 31, 2015)

And the moral of the story seems to be, we should've listened to the people who wanted to bomb everyone


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2015)

zygon? osgoods question mark shirt collar gave me sartorial envy


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 31, 2015)

I'm holding onto the Doctor's "if you bomb them you'll only radicalise more of them" in the hope this will turn itself around.

Still, I found the heavy-handed allegory hilarious.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm holding onto the Doctor's "if you bomb them you'll only radicalise more of them" in the hope this will turn itself around.
> 
> Still, I found the heavy-handed allegory hilarious.


you may remember such subtlety from Noels House Party, A  Clown Parade and that time someone was just really fucking obvious


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 31, 2015)

It made it all the more enjoyable.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> It made it all the more enjoyable.


oh I liked it, don't get me wrong. Interesting was the 'we don't distinguish' bit from 'real osgood' and zygon Osgood (when asked who is the real). Because they are the living treaty. The Peace Child


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 31, 2015)

No-one else nearly cried when the soldier asked "What's the name of my favourite teddy bear?"


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 31, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> No-one else nearly cried when the soldier asked "What's the name of my favourite teddy bear?"



Shrivelled, blackened heart of stone, me.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 31, 2015)

Loved the NO BRITISH NO DOGS sign.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 31, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yes, confirmed.



Where's this confirmed?


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 31, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Shrivelled, blackened heart of stone, me.


You're not kidding!

Another hybrid btw.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 31, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> let zygons be zygons


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 31, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Where's this confirmed?



Private Eye is the only place to have it at the moment it seems. But they've been accurate with their Who 'scoops' in the past.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 31, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Private Eye is the only place to have it at the moment it seems. But they've been accurate with their Who 'scoops' in the past.



So, not confirmed. Thanks.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 31, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Private Eye is the only place to have it at the moment it seems. But they've been accurate with their Who 'scoops' in the past.


According to this in Variety, dated today, they're "already working on series 10" and no mention of a hiatus: 

Lucca Comics: 'Doctor Who' Showrunner Steven Moffat On Why The Reboot Is A Global Hit


----------



## T & P (Oct 31, 2015)

That park at the beginning wasn't Brockwell Park at all


----------



## zoooo (Oct 31, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> No-one else nearly cried when the soldier asked "What's the name of my favourite teddy bear?"


Aww!


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2015)

zoooo said:


> Aww!


my old dear went 'you had three names for each one depending on your mood so I just called them all jeff till you corrected me'


bullet to the dome


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2015)

I suspect next week the Zygon within will be magicked into real humans. Because Who has a certain remit and the displacement or destruction of 20 million sentient beings isnt in him. He only endorses genocidal acts when the alien looks like a plant or insect


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2015)

Anyway, a massive victory of an episode. I hate the zygons, they look like something you'd stick to the tiles on the side of your bath an sometimes use to scrub the clagnuts out of your arse hair. But the doppleganger thing was played for more here, its not so easy as a simple Bodysnatchers type freak out. Props.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 1, 2015)

And frankly anything with more Osgood is


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

one osgood has the question mark shirt WHICH I WILL BUY and the other one has Bakers scarf which I had once and now have a knitted knock-off of. 


I was coming back from seeing frogwoman once and this legend at a change point was complete Sylvester Mcoy who. He had the fucking brolly and everything. I was off my tits so I can't remember much except giving him a hearty fistbump and so on. Rants about my fave mcoy episodes.

But this episode was magificent in some regards. I'm willing to accept that the 900 year old knows a few dad rock licks on the battle axe. Not sure about the magic spec so much just yet. He'll need to make them his doctors thing like the fez and the tendencey to lapse into hamlet hangdog expressions.


----------



## Santino (Nov 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> one osgood has the question mark shirt WHICH I WILL BUY and the other one has Bakers scarf which I had once and now have a knitted knock-off of.
> 
> 
> I was coming back from seeing frogwoman once and this legend at a change point was complete Sylvester Mcoy who. He had the fucking brolly and everything. I was off my tits so I can't remember much except giving him a hearty fistbump and so on. Rants about my fave mcoy episodes.
> ...


900? He's closer to 2000 by now.


----------



## 8den (Nov 1, 2015)

He can't be 2000. Time lords age like humans he'd have had to averaged 150 years per regeneration to pull that off


----------



## Santino (Nov 1, 2015)

tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor's_age


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2015)

8den said:


> He can't be 2000. Time lords age like humans he'd have had to averaged 150 years per regeneration to pull that off


Dr Matt (the one who went to school with Dotty) defended Trenzalore for 900 years. That's just one generation. Dr Hartnell (the one who went to school with Sass) was 236 when he stole the TARDIS.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2015)

Santino said:


> tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor's_age


Fuck you Santino!

And to think I wasted time doing gags. 'Twas ever thus.


----------



## Santino (Nov 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Fuck you Santino!
> 
> And to think I wasted time doing gags. 'Twas ever thus.


Liberal.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2015)

Santino said:


> Liberal.


Social liberal, though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2015)

Here's an alternative calculation: Doctor Who Season 8: How Old Is The Doctor? Recap Of The Doctor’s Real Age Leading Up To Peter Capaldi [TIMELINE]


----------



## 8den (Nov 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Dr Matt (the one who went to school with Dotty) defended Trenzalore for 900 years. That's just one generation. Dr Hartnell (the one who went to school with Sass) was 236 when he stole the TARDIS.



Fez boy gets nearly a millennium while Mc Coy barely makes it to middle age (and spent years with Bonnie fucking Langford)? Hardly seems fair.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 1, 2015)

I like to think that he  had a lot of off stage life.  The new adventure stuff is not  TV cannon  but I like to think he did stuff like that.


----------



## Santino (Nov 1, 2015)

Disappointing lack of blatant Star Wars references in the last few episodes.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 1, 2015)

II liked that one, it's just a shame the zygons look so shit!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 1, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> No-one else nearly cried when the soldier asked "What's the name of my favourite teddy bear?"



I did think he was a fucking idiot when asked for his date of birth, ie the single most easily googleable fact about him.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

emanymton said:


> II liked that one, it's just a shame the zygons look so shit!


they're wank aren't they. The story potential in a xenomorph is huge and they are mining it well, but to see the thing in its original form. shite. ffs. At least the blue one out of x-men looks credible and not like a bath aid/sex toy


----------



## 8den (Nov 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> they're wank aren't they. The story potential in a xenomorph is huge and they are mining it well, but to see the thing in its original form. shite. ffs. At least the blue one out of x-men looks credible and not like a bath aid/*sex toy*



What kind of weird ass freaky sex are you having...


----------



## Gromit (Nov 1, 2015)

I was looking forward to this episode when i read an advanced review that warned it was going to be a political episode (not the first time Doctor Who has made political statements comparisons) on immigration and ISIS and stuff. 

Yay i thought some depth!

I really didn't enjoy it though. Osgood was the only thing i liked.
The doppelganger robot'esk overacting really grated. Are we really saying we wouldn't notice 20 million doppelgangers if they all talked like that?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

well when someone talks to me in a weird cadence or accent I assume its a person from elsewhere. Rather than 'must be a xenomorph'


----------



## Gromit (Nov 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> well when someone talks to me in a weird cadence or accent I assume its a person from elsewhere. Rather than 'must be a xenomorph'



and thats why you are going to be assimilated before I am.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Are we really saying we


"We"? Why are you saying "we"?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> It is a get-out though, because we know the Moff didn't have all of that in his mind when he was happily penning all that dreadful gender shite. And anyway, to the human companions at least he is a man. It's like the twats who go on and on about Liara in the Mass Effect games - "Oh but they're a monogendered race so she's not actually a woman and that's not actually a gay relationship and BLAH BLAH BLAH." Bullshit. She's designed and presented as typically feminine and sexy so that we, the audience, find her attractive as a woman. The internal consistency of the universe doesn't matter at all -- how it fits into what we, the audience, recognise and understand is what's important. No text exists in a vacuum -- it's a dialogue between what is set out in the fictional universe and what we expect in our real one. We interpret based on what's real to us.
> 
> Moffat's shit with Amy and River was fucking awful.


I could re-post my 'why do I love the doctor?' rant from ages ago here. Universes vilest liberal, to squemish to pick up a gun but will happily press the 'kill them all' button on a 'kill them all' machine he has just invented. Essentially I think I excuse the doctors shit interpersonal politics and and breathtaking arrogance within that sphere because I see him as the child-alien. A forever child, thats part of his tragedy and the tragedy of that affects all who come into contact with him. Theres a part of that madcap wizard xenokinder that has no human reference points.
I'll agree that this is no excuse for what some writers have brought to the table mind! just in the fictional world I justify his behaviour (sometimes but not all) because he's an alien. And a particularly fucked up one at that. Just nicking the type 50 back in hartnells day is in the lore supposed to have mentally damaged an already eccentric genius


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I could re-post my 'why do I love the doctor?' rant from ages ago here. Universes vilest liberal, to squemish to pick up a gun but will happily press the 'kill them all' button on a 'kill them all' machine he has just invented. Essentially I think I excuse the doctors shit interpersonal politics and and breathtaking arrogance within that sphere because I see him as the child-alien. A forever child, thats part of his tragedy and the tragedy of that affects all who come into contact with him. Theres a part of that madcap wizard xenokinder that has no human reference points.
> I'll agree that this is no excuse for what some writers have brought to the table mind! just in the fictional world I justify his behaviour (sometimes but not all) because he's an alien. And a particularly fucked up one at that. Just nicking the type 50 back in hartnells day is in the lore supposed to have mentally damaged an already eccentric genius


Type 40.  Ffs.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 1, 2015)

There's a difference between characterisation and the writer's politics. Amy and River were the ones written in a certain way... that has nothing at all to do with the Doctor's child-alien whateverness. That has to do with them. The Doctor can act how he acts, and we can praise him or slag him off for it accordingly, and likewise work out whether it's character or if it's shoddy and dodgy writing. But Amy and River were given specific stories, personalities and character arcs that were theirs. They were written to be mother, daughter, wife - the Doctor didn't force them into that role, Moffat did. They were written to be the appendages that wait entire lifetimes for the Doctor, and whose entire worlds revolve around him. He didn't force them to be like that. Moffat wrote them to be like that.

Honestly, I know you love the Doctor, but I'm surprised at your justifications here, Dotty. You know the difference between character and writer. You know that people use the logic you're espousing to justify and legitimise all sorts of shitty crap in all sorts of different things -- "it's okay that she wears a metal bikini because this world has magic and she can use that to deflect arrows and swords" "it's fine that there are no women in key roles because women were kept in the home in medieval times" "it's okay that Moffat wrote River and Amy like that because the Doctor is a child-alien".


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Type 40.  Ffs.


I'm not a time and space motorist so all these things confuse me.

Point still stands though. You've got the product of a society that are_ stellar engineers, _and please do take a moment to think about that. They craft singularities ffs. We are talking about a being some orders above that of yer average hom sap. He's good enough to not remind you of it but Master/Missy? let you know about it all the god damn time.

So if he's fucked his brain up in an ill fated link with a type 40 and yet still manages to roam about the place saving galaxies and so on I think he is doing quite well. He just needs to work on that whole 'treating companions properly' thing


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> There's a difference between characterisation and the writer's politics. Amy and River were the ones written in a certain way... that has nothing at all to do with the Doctor's child-alien whateverness. That has to do with them. The Doctor can act how he acts, and we can praise him or slag him off for it accordingly, and likewise work out whether it's character or if it's shoddy and dodgy writing. But Amy and River were given specific stories, personalities and character arcs that were theirs. They were written to be mother, daughter, wife - the Doctor didn't force them into that role, Moffat did. They were written to be the appendages that wait entire lifetimes for the Doctor, and whose entire worlds revolve around him. He didn't force them to be like that. Moffat wrote them to be like that.
> 
> Honestly, I know you love the Doctor, but I'm surprised at your justifications here, Dotty. You know the difference between character and writer. You know that people use the logic you're espousing to justify and legitimise all sorts of shitty crap in all sorts of different things -- "it's okay that she wears a metal bikini because this world has magic and she can use that to deflect arrows and swords" "it's fine that there are no women in key roles because women were kept in the home in medieval times" "it's okay that Moffat wrote River and Amy like that because the Doctor is a child-alien".


thats why I said 'but not all' in brackets. There are some choices that were leaving me going 'hold on a minute'. Rose stranded in parralel universe with tennant clone was one. Did it really have to be that her story ended as a wifey in a pocket universe? Rose was cool, she could have gone solo like Ace does in the New Adventures. I justify the actions of the character within the story but not the writers. And the problem is with the doc is that he's a fuck up. So that fallout affects his travelling crew. Now heres an interesting thought that just struck me, how often does a writer lean on the docs xenokinder to excuse what he is writing? I should imagine you'd find moffat guilty of that.

and some of the pertwee era stuff also leaps to mind. Pertwee could be a right 70's shitbag authoritarian to women, especially companions


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> He just needs to work on that whole 'treating companions properly' thing


Also: "Must remember not to murder wounded locals".


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I could re-post my 'why do I love the doctor?' rant from ages ago here. Universes vilest liberal, to squemish to pick up a gun but will happily press the 'kill them all' button on a 'kill them all' machine he has just invented. Essentially I think I excuse the doctors shit interpersonal politics and and breathtaking arrogance within that sphere because I see him as the child-alien. A forever child, thats part of his tragedy and the tragedy of that affects all who come into contact with him. Theres a part of that madcap wizard xenokinder that has no human reference points.
> I'll agree that this is no excuse for what some writers have brought to the table mind! just in the fictional world I justify his behaviour (sometimes but not all) because he's an alien. And a particularly fucked up one at that. Just nicking the type 50 back in hartnells day is in the lore supposed to have mentally damaged an already eccentric genius


I've let this pass too many fucking times already. Type 40.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Type 40.  Ffs.


I was so angry I replied without reading the rest  of the thread. Shameful.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Also: "Must remember not to murder wounded locals".
> 
> View attachment 78938


There is a comic story that was published for the 50th in Doctor Who magazine that had 11 telling Ian that it was him that inspired the 1st to give	a shit through moments like that. Marco Polo was also name checked. Sort of explains how the Doctor became more of a hero once he was gone. How that fits with it being the eigth Doctor who convinced him not to brain anyone from off screen is anyone's guess.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> I've let this pass too many fucking times already. Type 40.


the reason I get things confused and wrong all the time is because I stole a time machine that binds with your very soul and the trauma of this means I often think someone is my grandaughter. Or that I am Paul McGann


----------



## Gromit (Nov 1, 2015)

The geeks have had it wrong for years. Its always been a Type 4T, it replaced the 4S and came before the Type 4U (the last type 4 before they switched to the Type 5 series)


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 1, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I did think he was a fucking idiot when asked for his date of birth, ie the single most easily googleable fact about him.


That fucking annoyed me for exactly the opposite reason: the most simple fucking question and she evaded it, and he _still _went inside  

If I asked my mum when I was born she wouldn't say "don't ask me that" she'd tell me when I was fucking born because she's a sensible, rational woman. Any other answer and it's *pow pow*.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 1, 2015)

The great thing about science fiction is that it allows you to produce wonderful allegories.  The Forever War.  Cities in Flight.  The Stars My Destination.  Subtle, meaningful, showing the heart of the matter without lecturing or hectoring.  Allowing you to find your own path to the truth.
...




And then you have ham-fisted crap like this that ladels it on with a fucking trowel.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> That fucking annoyed me for exactly the opposite reason: the most simple fucking question and she evaded it, and he _still _went inside
> 
> If I asked my mum when I was born she wouldn't say "don't ask me that" she'd tell me when I was fucking born because she's a sensible, rational woman. Any other answer and it's *pow pow*.


which hospital and which family member held your hand. Thats the standard of proof. No novelty bath/sex toy would be able to get that one.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> which hospital and which family member held your hand. Thats the standard of proof. No novelty bath/sex toy would be able to get that one.


Yeah, but neither would I...


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> which hospital and *which family member held your hand.* Thats the standard of proof. No novelty bath/sex toy would be able to get that one.


Showing your youth, there.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> Showing your youth, there.


my auntie coran still complains of the knuckle pain she endured!

I recon the best question would be 'what is your favourite dinner'

If your own mum doesn't know that then I'm sorry, she deserves to die*

*not really

I know one good question that might work 'When did you realise I was now a man not a child?'

you can't give binary answers to that one and only your mum would know it, and you remember the circumstance.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 1, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I did think he was a fucking idiot when asked for his date of birth, ie the single most easily googleable fact about him.



I hope not. Any one who freely publishes his whole DOB on the internet is a fool. Its an often asked security question by banks and other places. Mine is not on the internet.


----------



## prunus (Nov 1, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I hope not. Any one who freely publishes his whole DOB on the internet is a fool. Its an often asked security question by banks and other places. Mine is not on the internet.



Bet it is.

Your mother's maiden name probably is too. Party trick of mine - get someone's mother's maiden name in under 10 minutes. 

Yes, I'm a blast at parties


----------



## Gromit (Nov 1, 2015)

prunus said:


> Bet it is.
> 
> Your mother's maiden name probably is too. Party trick of mine - get someone's mother's maiden name in under 10 minutes.
> 
> Yes, I'm a blast at parties



I attended (well actually funded) an international conference on cyber crime many many years ago. Ever since then I lie to the internet about my DOB. The same lie to all online forms. Only where there is a legal requirement to provide genuine information do they receive it. I also employ other numerous safety tricks involving having numerous email addresses that i use and numerous password sets.

I'm also quite lucky insomuch as my real name typed into google brings up all sorts of shit rather than me.


----------



## 8den (Nov 1, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I attended (well actually funded) an international conference on cyber crime many many years ago. Ever since then I lie to the internet about my DOB. The same lie to all online forms. Only where there is a legal requirement to provide genuine information do they receive it. I also employ other numerous safety tricks involving having numerous email addresses that i use and numerous password sets.
> 
> I'm also quite lucky insomuch as my real name typed into google brings up all sorts of shit rather than me.


Your real name is Jimmy Saville?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 1, 2015)

8den said:


> Your real name is Jimmy Saville?



Both my first name and last name can be played on a scrabble board without anyone going thats a name so its not allowed. Therefore you are about as likely to find me in the first 50 pages of Google by using my name as you would if you typed in elephant basin.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 1, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Both my first name and last name can be played on a scrabble board without anyone going thats a name so its not allowed. Therefore you are about as likely to find me in the first 50 pages of Google by using my name as you would if you typed in elephant basin.


Well you know we're all going to have to guess now...


----------



## Gromit (Nov 1, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Well you know we're all going to have to guess now...



Just so long as you don't work out my real name is Bob Trombone. Oops.


----------



## 8den (Nov 1, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Both my first name and last name can be played on a scrabble board without anyone going thats a name so its not allowed.



Your name is Dirtbag Dildo and I claim my five pounds.


----------



## prunus (Nov 1, 2015)

prunus said:


> Bet it is.





Gromit said:


> I attended (well actually funded) an international conference on cyber crime many many years ago. Ever since then I lie to the internet about my DOB. The same lie to all online forms. Only where there is a legal requirement to provide genuine information do they receive it. I also employ other numerous safety tricks involving having numerous email addresses that i use and numerous password sets.
> 
> I'm also quite lucky insomuch as my real name typed into google brings up all sorts of shit rather than me.



You might prove slightly trickier than average then   Although only might - pm me your name if you want to test it 

This is all publicly accessible databases btw - nothing black ops. 

I admit I might fail of course...

Anyway - round here at identity theft central my kids and I enjoyed that episode a lot.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 1, 2015)

prunus said:


> You might prove slightly trickier than average then   Although only might - pm me your name if you want to test it
> 
> This is all publicly accessible databases btw - nothing black ops.
> 
> ...


What's your pornstar name? Just add the name of a childhood pet to your mother's maiden name.

Back on topic yet another reference to the UNIT dating controversy last night.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2015)

if god loves me (and I'm 74.5% sure she does) Osgood the imposter will become a new companion. So every time she runs down a corridor freaking out she can turn and just hulk out into zygon form and be all 'yeah? now what m8'


----------



## belboid (Nov 2, 2015)

Well, that one had all the tact and subtlety of an Oliver Stone film. It did have a few clever little touches, but generally, it was akin to being hit over the head with a large halibut.  Not that there's anything wrong with that (except, maybe, for the halibut). I love the cheapness of the Zygon outfit, its classic Who, all about the quality of the ideas, not the costumes.


----------



## belboid (Nov 5, 2015)

Shitloads of old Doctors released on BBC Store now, tho some are at a silly price - £9.99 for one with two episodes missing! Doctor Who


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2015)

gouging cunts, I'm not paying Nick Robinsons crack bill. give it six to eight months and they'll be piratable I think


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> gouging cunts, I'm not paying Nick Robinsons crack bill. give it six to eight months and they'll be piratable I think



I think every extant episode of Who, plus all the reconstructed ones, is already available. Also all the books, comics, audios etc

Doctor Who + Expanded Universe Torrent Masterpost


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 6, 2015)

Leaving Facebook...

So had a series next year. I'd probably rather 6 episodes with Capaldi rather than a lesser replacement for twelve. Sick of this overnight rating bollocks quoted everywhere. I'm as big a fan a they come but I didn't watch Saturdays til Sunday afternoon. It was Halloween ffs. There have also been major sporting events on the other side and its probably a bit late for little kids. Hard drives and Iplayer is where people will be watching it.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 6, 2015)

Can't they get in a locum?


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 6, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Can't they get in a locum?


There is nothing cannon to exclude it but would be a bit shit on whoever got the part. There was an early episode not featuring the Doctor or even the companions that set up events for a future story. If Moffat could write well consistently something good could come from that. A couple of Missy adventures building to a final showdown, a two parter with no doctor in the first part showing the planet before the Doctor arrived or a first part with the Doctor and a second showing the aftermath of his visit and a few unexpected consequences that could play into a later story. But no we get fuck if we'll do half as much. You could even have Clara (or anyone but it would be better with a character we vaguely care about) flying about looking for a lost or captured Doctor while filling in on his rounds.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2015)




----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2015)

There were episodes made without Hartnell when he took ill or even took unannounced holidays. 

In the wonderful Time Meddler, there's at least one episode where people talk to the Doctor though a door and get no answer.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 6, 2015)

There would be nothing acanonical about some new 10th or 11th Doctor stories dating from their era.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 6, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> There would be nothing acanonical about some new 10th or 11th Doctor stories dating from their era.


In fact the former is happening albeit not on the telly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> There were episodes made without Hartnell when he took ill or even took unannounced holidays.
> 
> In the wonderful Time Meddler, there's at least one episode where people talk to the Doctor though a door and get no answer.


that killed me in the 50th episode celebration docus and I know they did it on purpose just to smite me right in my emotion box (which is blue). You must go on without me.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 6, 2015)

Full series next year!Steven Moffat can "confirm absolutely" that there will be a full series of Doctor Who next year


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 7, 2015)

I think this was the most Doctor as Jesus episode ever and I loved it. The very point of forgiveness. I don't forgive you cos I like you. I don't forgive you cos I think I should. I forgive you because how else do we ever get anywhere?


Osgoods question mark shirt once again making me well jell


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 7, 2015)

Even if it did come off as a bit like a sci fi version of Deal or No Deal with Capaldi as noel edmunds


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 7, 2015)

"Totally and radically driving in space".


----------



## rekil (Nov 7, 2015)

Insipid Panglossian bollocks. Revolutionaries are tantrumming teenagers and other sick burns.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 7, 2015)

but there was FORGIVNESS FOR ALL! thats the point here. Also osgood wore the shit-hot question mark shirt again.

The mercy in this world, the forgiveness. It might not be hapening on _my _watch but it still made me smile. One day. brothers, sisters. Comrades all. One day we can do that.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 7, 2015)

I loved it. Great episode. I did a "hmm"  once or twice (same thing copliker is talking about) but I can go with the overall message (that dotty is talking about). 

And I LOVE a bit of Time War angst. There's nothing like it.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 7, 2015)

I done a cry


----------



## Gromit (Nov 7, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> And I LOVE a bit of Time War angst. There's nothing like it.



I still say no one did time war angst as good as Ecleston.

Capaldi just did a quick shouty bit. Shouty, shouty, right where were we?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 7, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I loved it. Great episode. I did a "hmm"  once or twice (same thing copliker is talking about) but I can go with the overall message (that dotty is talking about).
> 
> And I LOVE a bit of *Time War angst*. There's nothing like it.


that was also pretty good. Reminded me of Who in his most liberal monster form 'You want a war? I fuckin burned worlds m8. You don't KNOW war'


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> if god loves me (and I'm 74.5% sure she does) Osgood the imposter will become a new companion. So every time she runs down a corridor freaking out she can turn and just hulk out into zygon form and be all 'yeah? now what m8'


See the offer was made but osgood was all 'Thanks awfully, but I must stay here'


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 8, 2015)

Too much talky talky explain at the end, all in one room. 

. . . but I think we should just let zygons be zygons.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Too much talky talky explain at the end, all in one room.
> 
> . . . but I think we should just let zygons be zygons.


i done that joke last week suplex


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 8, 2015)

Yeah well.


----------



## Epona (Nov 8, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I loved it. Great episode. I did a "hmm"  once or twice (same thing copliker is talking about) but I can go with the overall message (that dotty is talking about).
> 
> And I LOVE a bit of Time War angst. There's nothing like it.



Aye, I was like "what, so anyone who has wanted to change society is having a tantrum Doctor, is that what it is as far as you are concerned, hmmm?"

Still good fun and all, but a bit of a downturn for a season that included early on a clip of Tom Baker doing the whole "do I have the right?" thing (which is still one of the best moments in Doctor Who ever).  Then we get onto dismissing politics as tantrums and farting noises for comedy.

Meh it was OK.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> i done that joke last week suplex


I done it two years ago.

Your nominations for the twelth Doctor


----------



## kabbes (Nov 8, 2015)

I enjoyed it.  The ranty stuff is exactly what I was hoping for when they got Capaldi in the first place.  It's only taken a season and a half to get there.  

His weird gurning at the fake Oswald when waiting for her to make a decision was a bit odd mind.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2015)

I liked the episode. I don't expect perceptive politics from Dr Who, so I'm not bothered about the tantrum thing. I like the rant. It was fun. But then I think the Tom Baker (whom I love) soliloquy in Genesis is the weakest part of the story.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2015)

well it has confirmed my theory about the Doctor being the universes vilest liberal


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I done it two years ago.
> 
> Your nominations for the twelth Doctor


you ballsack


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2015)

Regarding Dr Who politics, I  started watching the Green Death last night. Haven't seen it since it aired.  Pertwee was really the Doctor I got into (though I do remember Troughton). I remember being terrified of the giant maggots.  

The blurb on the DVD bigs up the environmental politics of the story. I've only seen one episode so far, so I'll reserve judgement. But the elephant in the room is the gender politics, which often in Pertwee era is horrendous, but going from episode one of the Green Death, this is the absolute nadir. I've never heard Katy Manning's views on it, but I'd love to. 

The young professor they're  obviously setting up as her romantic interest has an appalling attitude towards her, all the more appalling for the fact that the message clearly is that this is the type of paternalistic relationship s woman should expect from  husband material

So watching Who for the politics is never going to be rewarding.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> well it has confirmed my theory about the Doctor being the universes vilest liberal


Well, the writers. 

I like to think of the Doctor as ill served by his biographers, who project onto him the mainstream mores of the day.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked the episode. I don't expect perceptive politics from Dr Who, so I'm not bothered about the tantrum thing. I like the rant. It was fun. But then I think the Tom Baker (whom I love) soliloquy in Genesis is the weakest part of the story.


of course sylvester mcoy had his rants, and was mandlesonesque in his playing of games. But as an Octavian you know nothing of this.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> of course sylvester mcoy had his rants, and was mandlesonesque in his playing of games. But as an Octavian you know nothing of this.



I still consider Mcoy the Highlander II of Doctors. Better to pretend it didn't happen.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I still consider Mcoy the Highlander II of Doctors. Better to pretend it didn't happen.


is there anything you aren't wrong about?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> is there anything you aren't wrong about?



Saying i'm wrong about everything is saying i'm wrong about Highlander II. You don't have a leg to stand on. QED Mcoy was truly rubbish.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2015)

not QED. I enjoyed Highlander 2. Christopher Lambert always makes a film worth watching. Also a train thing beheaded someone in a comedically unrealistic fashion


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2015)

I maintain the Maisie Williams episodes are the absolute shittest this season. I've rewatched them since (the second one last night, as it happens) and ugh. Awful shit.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Nov 8, 2015)

copliker said:


> Insipid Panglossian bollocks. Revolutionaries are tantrumming teenagers and other sick burns.



The argument is."what do you do when the revolution is over? How do you live with the old guard and each other? What society do you want, one where it's tit for tat or one where we listen?"

Great episode anyway, so much better than the rest so far


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 9, 2015)

copliker said:


> Insipid Panglossian bollocks. Revolutionaries are tantrumming teenagers and other sick burns.


It was Moffat talking about women.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 9, 2015)

Really liked that episode as did the grandkids, its totally satisfying to have enjoyed  every episode so far with the only bit of dissatisfaction being with the missy balloon head thing in the first episode, but the kids thought it was funny  so I'll grudgingly allow it.


----------



## Pingu (Nov 9, 2015)

meh


----------



## Cid (Nov 9, 2015)

Nah, that was weak. Everything will be fine if people just realise that the status quo is what they want and they have a super power(ful being) to give them a moving speech and play war top trumps.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 10, 2015)

Capaldi nailed that monologue though, it wasn't Tuckeresque because it was full of doubt and pleading. The closeups on his face showed those flickers of different outcomes working through him. Loved that


----------



## Balbi (Nov 10, 2015)

Also, LOCATION!

When he say goodbye to Osgood(s) he's where the Tardis was during The Parting Of The Ways - y'know, with Mickey and the big yellow truck.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 10, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> well it has confirmed my theory about the Doctor being the universes vilest liberal



Genocide is OK when I do it, but you lot should know better.


----------



## belboid (Nov 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> "Totally and radically driving in space".


A lovely little slap at those who slate Donna for (supposedly) not knowing the old man's name isn't Who, and the rest of it.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 10, 2015)

belboid said:


> A lovely little slap at those who slate Donna for (supposedly) not knowing the old man's name isn't Who, and the rest of it.



I think its a further evidence of a drastic change in attitude towards hardcore whovians.

Before directors and writers used to worry about what they might think. 

They've decided that deliberately winding up Whovians instead of being scared of them is the way to go.

I believe that now they are deliberately looking for doctrine to be irreverent about. If the doctor himself is irreverent about it then how can Whovians take it so seriously eh? Cause y'know he's the man ain't he and if he doesn't take these things all that seriously....

I'm waiting to see what else they may mess with. I'm hoping he'll upgrade the TARDIS to have key-less entry and a boot that opens when you wave your leg around.


----------



## belboid (Nov 10, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I think its a further evidence of a drastic change in attitude towards hardcore whovians.


I disagree. No writer has ever given a flying fuck about those people.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I think its a further evidence of a drastic change in attitude towards hardcore whovians.


It's not an attempt to wind anyone up: it's a joke. The Doctor - a guy who has been into recorders, fezzes, jelly babies and saying stuff like "timey wimey" as well as "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" - was being whimsical. 

We know anyway that Susan made up the acronym.  "I made up the name TARDIS from the initials — Time And Relative Dimension In Space", she says in An Unearthly Child. But if they were really called "Time And Relative Dimension In Space Machines", probably quite a few other people also made up the name TARDIS. 

However Susan does quite clearly say "Dimension" singular.  So people using the plural are either wrong, or making rather a poor whimsical joke.


----------



## 8den (Nov 10, 2015)

belboid said:


> A lovely little slap at those who slate Donna for (supposedly) not knowing the old man's name isn't Who, and the rest of it.



You could have just called me out. 

And for the record I hate Katherine Tate for her shrill incredibly OTT performance Donna could have been an amazing companion but ruined by her "acting". Unlikely Martha who was under written and had a rubbish actress. 

Not knowing that the Doctors name isn't "Mr Who" is merely vindication for my intense dislike of Tate.


----------



## 8den (Nov 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It's not an attempt to wind anyone up: it's a joke. The Doctor - a guy who has been into recorders, fezzes, jelly babies and saying stuff like "timey wimey" as well as "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" - was being whimsical.
> 
> We know anyway that Susan made up the acronym.  "I made up the name TARDIS from the initials — Time And Relative Dimension In Space", she says in An Unearthly Child. But if they were really called "Time And Relative Dimension In Space Machines", probably quite a few other people also made up the name TARDIS.
> 
> However Susan does quite clearly say "Dimension" singular.  So people using the plural are either wrong, or making rather a poor whimsical joke.



Also Dimension makes sense. Since the inside of the TARDIS is technically infinite it is in a sense a pocket dimension.


----------



## 8den (Nov 10, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I still consider Mcoy the Highlander II of Doctors. Better to pretend it didn't happen.



Oh fuck off. McCoy was a fine Doctor screwed by bad scripts, week budgets and BBC Management that actively hated the show.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 10, 2015)

8den said:


> You could have just called me out.
> 
> And for the record I hate Katherine Tate for her shrill incredibly OTT performance Donna could have been an amazing companion but ruined by her "acting". Unlikely Martha who was under written and had a rubbish actress.
> 
> Not knowing that the Doctors name isn't "Mr Who" is merely vindication for my intense dislike of Tate.


I don't care about her knowing his name. But I'm with you on the Tate hate, we seem to be in a minority though.


----------



## 8den (Nov 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> . But the elephant in the room is the gender politics, which often in Pertwee era is horrendous, but going from episode one of the Green Death, this is the absolute nadir. I've never heard Katy Manning's views on it, but I'd love to.
> So watching Who for the politics is never going to be rewarding.



I've not seen the Green Death since it aired on Satellite TV in the late 80s early 90s but I can remember thinking it was horribly sexist.


----------



## belboid (Nov 10, 2015)

8den said:


> You could have just called me out.


Why?  you're hardly the only one to make that silly statement.  It's not all about you, you know.  Bloody ego as big as Mr Who's.


----------



## 8den (Nov 10, 2015)

belboid said:


> Why?  you're hardly the only one to make that silly statement.  It's not all about you, you know.  Bloody ego as big as Mr Who's.



My ego is so massive it barely fits in the TARDIS.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2015)

8den said:


> I've not seen the Green Death since it aired on Satellite TV in the late 80s early 90s but I can remember thinking it was horribly sexist.


You had satellite TV in the late 80s?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2015)

belboid said:


> Why?  you're hardly the only one to make that silly statement.  It's not all about you, you know.  Bloody ego as big as Mr Who's.


Fuck sake, he's not a consultant! It's *DR* Who!


----------



## 8den (Nov 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> You had satellite TV in the late 80s?



Super channel and British Satellite Broadcasting were offered free with basic cable in Dublin in the early 90s.

BSB just showed re runs of bad American tv (land of the Giants and the flying nun) and super channel was rubbish aside from doctor who repeats and Gundam anime (both of which in fairness were awesome)


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2015)

8den said:


> Super channel and British Satellite Broadcasting were offered free with basic cable in Dublin in the early 90s.
> 
> BSB just showed re runs of bad American tv (land of the Giants and the flying nun) and super channel was rubbish aside from doctor who repeats and Gundam anime (both of which in fairness were awesome)


Ah, a capital city.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 10, 2015)

8den said:


> Oh fuck off. McCoy was a fine Doctor screwed by bad scripts, week budgets and BBC Management that actively hated the show.



You are not selling the Mcoy era to me. In fact you seem to be acknowledging it was crap and providing reasons as to why. 

But I'll add another aimed right at the lead actor. Mcoy was the Sean Connery of Dr Whos. Dr Who became The Syvester Mcoy character (that he'd made a living of for many many years) instead of Mcoy becoming the Dr. 
Bit like if the Doc suddenly went around hitting daleks with a sonic rubber hammer because Timmy Mallet got the part.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2015)

Gromit said:


> You are not selling the Mcoy era to me. In fact you seem to be acknowledging it was crap and providing reasons as to why.
> 
> But I'll add another aimed right at the lead actor. Mcoy was the Sean Connery of Dr Whos. Dr Who became The Syvester Mcoy character (that he'd made a living of for many many years) instead of Mcoy becoming the Dr.
> Bit like if the Doc suddenly went around hitting daleks with a sonic rubber hammer because Timmy Mallet got the part.


Can I interest you in the Octavian faith?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Can I interest you in the Octavian faith?


Do you have a pamphlet?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Do you have a pamphlet?


Doctor Who Series 8


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2015)

Credo here:

Doctor Who Series 9


----------



## Gromit (Nov 10, 2015)

Hmm so if I have this straight. Only the first four Doctors and the last four doctors count. I don't get to choose my own 8. 

I'll give your faith a bash but if Capaldi gets any worse I may have to launch a break away fraction of the faith the Octavian Witnesses.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 10, 2015)

Gromit said:


> You are not selling the Mcoy era to me. In fact you seem to be acknowledging it was crap and providing reasons as to why.
> 
> But I'll add another aimed right at the lead actor. Mcoy was the Sean Connery of Dr Whos. Dr Who became The Syvester Mcoy character (that he'd made a living of for many many years) instead of Mcoy becoming the Dr.
> Bit like if the Doc suddenly went around hitting daleks with a sonic rubber hammer because Timmy Mallet got the part.


nonsense, if anyones guilty of being the man not the part then its Tom Backer. The crap baker was just crap, his shouty doctor was a dick


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 10, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Too much talky talky explain at the end, all in one room.



It was a bit, I agree. But he'd have had to lay it on a bit thick to get through to Zygon Clara, whatever her name was, as he did, so it was internally justifiable at least. Much better as a resolution than the patented Moffat Magic 'Bang! And the aliens are gone!' that we've had too often over the last couple of series.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 14, 2015)

Lots of similarities to the first Dr book, Ten Little Aliens.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 14, 2015)

Good idea, but I hated the way it was shot.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 14, 2015)

I thought something like that was going on because of the lack of opening credits.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2015)

the found footage style one. Not something I like much but the story fleshed out ok even if they did belabour the sandman thing


----------



## 8115 (Nov 14, 2015)

That was so boring I felt like I was back in the eighties.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2015)

I hope its not shot in that style for the second part


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 14, 2015)

It was an okay episode. I liked the ending. It's rare they leave something as open as that these days, without a hint that X will be coming back, or it being tied up, one way or another. Had something of _Blink_ about it, I think. I hope it's not overused in the same way.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 14, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I hope its not shot in that style for the second part



The 'next time' suggested the story is about something entirely different? I didn't catch how it's meant to be a 2-parter (although I thought they all were this series).


----------



## 8115 (Nov 14, 2015)

There's a second part?   I thought it just had a boring end.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 14, 2015)

Bring back the Weeping Angels.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 14, 2015)

8115 said:


> Bring back the Weeping Angels.



Yes, talking of things overused....


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> The 'next time' suggested the story is about something entirely different? I didn't catch how it's meant to be a 2-parter (although I thought they all were this series).


I just assumed there was moar to come cos this season been all 2 parters


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 14, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I just assumed there was moar to come cos this season been all 2 parters



Well, indeed. I thought they were all coming in twos. But it seems not. Unless its second part is coming later, and not sequentially. idk. I hope that's it though, just one part. I like how it's left hanging. It had that same feeling to it _Blink _did, telling kids to be scared of something terribly quotidian.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 14, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I just assumed there was moar to come cos this season been all 2 parters


I think you're right.

It was a bit of a "generic deserted space station" episode.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 14, 2015)

Loved that episode, best one of the lot so far for me


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Well, indeed. I thought they were all coming in twos. But it seems not. Unless its second part is coming later, and not sequentially. idk. I hope that's it though, just one part. I like how it's left hanging. It had that same feeling to it _Blink _did, telling kids to be scared of something terribly quotidian.


it also struck me midway as a great monster to get bedtimes obeyed 'you saw what happens if you don't sleep kid...'


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 14, 2015)

Standalone episode as is next week's though that allegedly sets some things up for the final two, the first of which is a Capaldi single-hander.

(Guess who went to Doctor Who Festival today)


----------



## gosub (Nov 14, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I hope its not shot in that style for the second part



what second part?


----------



## emanymton (Nov 14, 2015)

I couldn't help but think of the  vindoloo monster from Red Dwarf the whole time.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 14, 2015)

Shit. Even my daughter was bored.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 14, 2015)

It really wasn't great was it?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 15, 2015)

I thought it was dull tbh; everything about it was amateurish and not in a good way - Nagata's sometimes-Geordie-sometimes-not accent, the tiresome setting, utterly unfrightening monsters made of _eye-trash_ ffs.


----------



## joustmaster (Nov 15, 2015)

terrible.
didn't make any sense


----------



## emanymton (Nov 15, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Shit. Even my daughter was bored.


These are usually my favorite type of episode. But yeah last night's was pretty dull, and just seemed to make no sense.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 15, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I hope its not shot in that style for the second part



 I have a feeling that's a standalone episode. I'm confused about it, tbh. Did it actually happen, was it a dream?


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 15, 2015)

just goes to show how different we fans are as for me it's been the most simple and straightforward episode so far and I loved it so much it was more than halfway through before I realised there hadn't been any opening credits. I also loved the little nod to the classic horror  Halloween, that song always creeps me out whenever I hear it.and its a shame that scheduling didn't allow it to be the Oct 31st episode, it would have worked for me


----------



## Wilf (Nov 15, 2015)

Very poor - monsters made out of eye boogers?!?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 15, 2015)

A couple of good bits last night, but not enough to save a daft idea and a lot of shit acting, particularly from Reese Shearsmith.


----------



## binka (Nov 15, 2015)

The props were shit - am i meant to believe in the 38th century soldiers are kitted out with childrens bicycle helmets?


----------



## 8115 (Nov 15, 2015)

binka said:


> The props were shit - am i meant to believe in the 38th century soldiers are kitted out with childrens bicycle helmets?


Also, all doors in space, never mind where in space or time, look very very similar.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 16, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> and a lot of shit acting


Glad someone else noticed. The overall standard was quite appalling. It even dragged Capaldi down once or twice.


----------



## belboid (Nov 16, 2015)

Shearsmith is a bloody awful actor.  Acceptable in comic roles that are meant to be a tad OTT, but otherwise....

The eye booga beast was a funny enough monster, not a bad idea, good for making sure the kids go to bed properly. That's fine. But it didn't really pan out properly. And the ending was wasted, everyone seems to have assumed it was gonna be a two parter, expecting a Doc win next week.  So the fact that the old fucker actually _lost _was wasted.  Shame.  If we'd realised the ending was really the ending, it would have had some bite.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 16, 2015)

It's a tough episode for me to rate. There were certain aspects I really liked, others I didn't. I like the idea of the sandmen but the how and why they are sentient didn't really make sense. 

Unfortunately for me I was also unable to really lose myself due to the amatuerish acting (director's fault?) which lead me into thinking over and over: "Nuke the entire site from orbit--it’s the only way to be sure." For like the last 10 minutes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2015)

I'm not sure the sub-plot with the genetically engineered stupid super soldier added much either. If they want to riff on huxley they should do a whole episode about the horror of a genetic caste system or whatever you want to call it. Instead it was just some muted plea to tolerance that was of no consequence to the wider plot anyway


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2015)

I don't want to curse the last remaing eps but I think when we do the season review I'll be having this as the weakest.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm not sure the sub-plot with the genetically engineered stupid super soldier added much either. If they want to riff on huxley they should do a whole episode about the horror of a genetic caste system or whatever you want to call it. Instead it was just some muted plea to tolerance that was of no consequence to the wider plot anyway



What was all that "pretty" crap about? Were they trying to do an Of Mice and Men I was thinking? 

I've now learned that 474 was a CIS woman played by a Trans Woman. So it was meant to be romance?

I'm rewatching now and they keep referring to 474 as 'it', '474', 'them', 'they' and so far as i've spotted onl once as 'her' and so quickly that i missed it the first time round. Shouldn't the trans community be a bit upset about this? They dehumanized a character played by a trans actress. Apart from the nose ring they made up a trans woman to look completely masculine. I'll be honest i thought the character was male because the big dumb grunt cliche is nearly always male. 

Nice job Dr Who for casting your first transgender thespian , bad job at the role they chose unless it was deliberate to stir up debate on how trans people are treated? If so still quite a bad job.


----------



## belboid (Nov 16, 2015)

binka said:


> The props were shit - am i meant to believe in the 38th century soldiers are kitted out with childrens bicycle helmets?


after the Great Catastrophe, they had to start re-inventing a whole bunch of shit from scratch??


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2015)

I must have missed the 'pretty' stuff I thought the soldier was prejudiced against the 474 because he was repulsed by genetic engineered humans. Like some far future bigotry.


This is why they need to stop putting it on so fucking late, I'm usualy _impaired_ by that point on a saturday night so I miss bits


----------



## belboid (Nov 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> This is why they need to stop putting it on so fucking late, I'm usualy _impaired_ by that point on a saturday night so I miss bits


although that does allow them to have blood.  And to say 'bloody'


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> What was all that "pretty" crap about? Were they trying to do an Of Mice and Men I was thinking?
> 
> I've now learned that 474 was a CIS woman played by a Trans Woman. So it was meant to be romance?
> 
> ...


Some transpeople present androgynously.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2015)

I miss Doctor Who Confidential, you used to find out all about the actors and the crew for each episode. I looked on wikipedia and it said it was cancelled for cost cutting reasons. Bah. I don't not pay my license fee to be treated so shabbily


----------



## Chz (Nov 16, 2015)

> Acceptable in comic roles that are meant to be a tad OTT


Oh, Reece has been really good in Inside Number 9. But he was admittedly pants at the weekend.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 16, 2015)

I thought Grunt was a woman. I didn't hear about the part being played by a trans actress until now though.

I rather miss Dr Who Confidential too, although most of the time I did forget to watch it.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 16, 2015)

We've binned this as our Saturday night family viewing (and we've watched EVERY episode since it returned). Just not feeling it, kids completely uninterested. Capaldi just isn't The Doctor for me. I've caught up to The Girl Who Lived. and it's ok....someone else said on this thread that it just feels 'damp'. It does.

We've switched to watching The Flash, which is funny, exciting, not too taxing


----------



## zoooo (Nov 16, 2015)

My niece has gone off it too, she's loved it since Eccleston. Her last straw apparently was when they got rid of the sonic screwdriver. She and her friends had some kind of official wake for it and the death of their love for Who.
They are massive geeks. <3

Thing is, it's not Capaldi's fault. But I bet he'll get the blame if this series spells the end, or the viewing figures are massively down.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 16, 2015)

Luckily my grandkids love it still.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 16, 2015)

zoooo said:


> My niece has gone off it too, she's loved it since Eccleston. Her last straw apparently was when they got rid of the sonic screwdriver. She and her friends had some kind of official wake for it and the death of their love for Who.
> They are massive geeks. <3
> 
> Thing is, it's not Capaldi's fault. But I bet he'll get the blame if this series spells the end, or the viewing figures are massively down.



Yeah, Capaldi is great, it what he's being given that's the problem.

A wake for the sonic screwdriver, hehe .


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 16, 2015)

Random stuff I learned/thought at the Doctor Who Festival:

The guitar was suggested by Capaldi in a between-season email, without any real expectation that it'd happen.
Capaldi still watches old Who - current favourite "The Sea Devils"
Moffat seemed very tired and a bit bored and grumpy, to be honest.
He considers it to be very much his show, doubt he'll give it up willingly even though Sherlock clashes with it next year.
There were no events at the festival related to OldWho - unlike the 50th Anniversary Celebration.
Michelle Gomez easily steals the show, even doing Q&A
She did no research on previous Masters for the role.
The Mire suits (Girl Who Died) are actually really light and made of foam, just painted to look heavy.
Next week's episode sounds good - based around the idea of Trap Streets


----------



## Sea Star (Nov 16, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> Some transpeople present androgynously.



It's trans people. To say transpeople suggests we're a peculiar form of people, and maybe not people at all, and lots of trans people find it offensive. Hope that helps.


----------



## Sea Star (Nov 16, 2015)

zoooo said:


> I thought Grunt was a woman.



er, she is a woman....


----------



## Gromit (Nov 16, 2015)

AuntiStella said:


> er, she is a woman....



zoooooo was  answeing the fact that at the time of viewing I thought the grunt was a male character then realized afterwards it was a female character.

Zoooo however knew they were a woman all the way through.

In my defense i was watching on a iphone on a four hour coach journey home.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 16, 2015)

So  in previous Who shows a big thing has been made from time to time that they run, and they run and often run some more.

So as a companion to the Doctor whenever leaving the TARDIS I would be wearing something conducive to running. Clara last night had a mini skirt and heels. Why isn't she dead yet? Maybe this is how she'll leave the show at the end of the season. Killed by choice of inappropriate footwear for the job. You heard it here first. /taps nose

Oh and despite being dressed like she was going clubbing in Cardiff they accepted their story that they were some kind of maintenance engineers (cause like thats how i dress when repairing ships, no overalls), and didn't ask where their ship was that got them there.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> zoooooo was  answeing the fact that at the time of viewing I thought the grunt was a male character then realized afterwards it was a female character.
> 
> Zoooo however knew they were a woman all the way through.


Ezzackly.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Oh and despite being dressed like she was going clubbing in Cardiff they accepted their story that they were some kind of maintenance engineers (cause like thats how i dress when repairing ships, no overalls), and didn't ask where their ship was that got them there.



Have you never used psychic paper?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> So as a companion to the Doctor whenever leaving the TARDIS I would be wearing something conducive to running. Clara last night had a mini skirt and heels. Why isn't she dead yet? Maybe this is how she'll leave the show at the end of the season. Killed by choice of inappropriate footwear for the job. You heard it here first. /taps nose


See also: Buffy.

I think they toned it down in later seasons though, perhaps reflecting the character's own understanding of what is appropriate attire for supernatural carnage.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 16, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Have you never used psychic paper?



It shows them credentials that they expect to see. What they saw this time made no sense based on how they were dressed so why would they have even had that expectation.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> It shows them credentials that they expect to see. What they saw this time made no sense based on how they were dressed so why would they have even had that expectation.



It's the 38th century, though. Why would maintenance engineering be a blue collar profession? It will barely be so in fifty years. You can wear whatever you like to update the programmes that manage self-maintaining ship components.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 16, 2015)

AuntiStella said:


> It's trans people. To say transpeople suggests we're a peculiar form of people, and maybe not people at all, and lots of trans people find it offensive. Hope that helps.


Thanks, noted.


Gromit said:


> So  in previous Who shows a big thing has been made from time to time that they run, and they run and often run some more.
> 
> So as a companion to the Doctor whenever leaving the TARDIS I would be wearing something conducive to running. Clara last night had a mini skirt and heels. Why isn't she dead yet? Maybe this is how she'll leave the show at the end of the season. Killed by choice of inappropriate footwear for the job. You heard it here first. /taps nose
> 
> Oh and despite being dressed like she was going clubbing in Cardiff they accepted their story that they were some kind of maintenance engineers (cause like thats how i dress when repairing ships, no overalls), and didn't ask where their ship was that got them there.



I assumed "engineer" in the sense of the ultra-brainy graduate types.  In that context, while she was wearing a skirt and heels, it wasn't especially inappropriate.  The doctor was hardly in a boiler suit.


----------



## Sea Star (Nov 16, 2015)

I thought they blagged their way on by pretending to be regulators rather than engineers. In which case how they were dressed would be less unexpected as they wouldn't be carrying out any physical work, just looking at indicators, sensors, that sort of thing, and maybe carrying out the odd measurement. Or they might just be there to present a report, to agree the scope of a visit, etc. but I work in engineering so I'm kind of used to seeing engineers dressed up in their smartish clobber. 

I once saw an engineer, a woman in an expensive looking skirt suit, put on overalls over the top and go down a tunnel to check stresses in a tube tunnel! But that's extreme. I have seen a meeting of guys in business suits down a tunnel too!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 16, 2015)

Also, if we can accept psychic paper, we can accept really good psychic paper. This is Doctor Who ffs, not Mr Benn.


----------



## Sea Star (Nov 16, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> Thanks, noted.
> 
> 
> I assumed "engineer" in the sense of the ultra-brainy graduate types.  In that context, while she was wearing a skirt and heels, it wasn't especially inappropriate.  The doctor was hardly in a boiler suit.


We're not all ultra brainy tbf, some of us are borderline idiots!


----------



## Gromit (Nov 16, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> The doctor was hardly in a boiler suit.



No and he should have been. They were both inappropriately dressed for poking around in the mucky guts of a space station looking for metal fatigue. Unless its all done with robots, in which case it wouldn't really need two of em.


----------



## belboid (Nov 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> No and he should have been. They were both inappropriately dressed for poking around in the mucky guts of a space station looking for metal fatigue. Unless its all done with robots, in which case it wouldn't really need two of em.


Maybe Clara was a trainee, or his supervisor, assessing his performance. Whatever, it was good enough for Nagata to be convinced, so they _must _have been appropriately attired.


----------



## Sea Star (Nov 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> No and he should have been. They were both inappropriately dressed for poking around in the mucky guts of a space station looking for metal fatigue. Unless its all done with robots, in which case it wouldn't really need two of em.


well, as I said, I've seen engineers just pull on a boiler suit over their business suit and go poking around in filthy tunnels - so it didn't seem so glaring.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 16, 2015)

AuntiStella said:


> well, as I said, I've seen engineers just pull on a boiler suit over their business suit and go poking around in filthy tunnels - so it didn't seem so glaring.



And their boiler suits and equipment to use later were in the big bag they were carrying?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2015)

they had a force field projected by the Tardis


----------



## Sea Star (Nov 16, 2015)

Gromit said:


> And their boiler suits and equipment to use later were in the big bag they were carrying?


The bag could have been anywhere. They must have come in on some sort of ship so I would assume everything heavy was left there.
Plus of course they might not have been there to do actual work. Engineers tend to have lots of meetings and explaining things to people before they get to do any actual work. I should know!


----------



## kabbes (Nov 18, 2015)

Was that really it for that story?  It was utter shit.  Not "comparatively shit but we love it anyway".  Just shit.  No excuses for it: it made no sense, it started plot lines that went nowhere, the monsters were pointless, ridiculous and stupid.  It was an embarrassment.  I'd assumed it was all just a set up for the actual story in part 2, but now it seems like this is not the case.  If anyone saw that as their first foray into Who, they'll never bother coming back.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2015)

its rare that I agreee, but kabbes has a point here. 


kabbes said:


> If anyone saw that as their first foray into Who, they'll never bother coming back.


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2015)

hmm, it wasn't good, but it did make sense.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 18, 2015)

belboid said:


> hmm, it wasn't good, but it did make sense.



Why do creatures made of sleep snot need huge mouths? 

Awaits this sense of which you speak.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 18, 2015)

belboid said:


> hmm, it wasn't good, but it did make sense.


In what way?  What the hell are those creatures actually supposed to be?  Don't give me this crap about eye sleep, ffs.  That makes no sense whatsoever.


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Why do creatures made of sleep snot need huge mouths?
> 
> Awaits this sense of which you speak.


because they are replicating the humans which made them.


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2015)

kabbes said:


> In what way?  What the hell are those creatures actually supposed to be?  Don't give me this crap about eye sleep, ffs.  That makes no sense whatsoever.


They're eye sleep.  Which makes as much sense of most other monsters.  It's quite funny, in fact.  

Such trivialities were not where the story fell down.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 18, 2015)

It was half an idea dressed up in "found footage" glad rags, but really made no sense. 
Sleep grot builds up (despite them not sleeping), becomes sentient by space magic (it's not clever to just put the word "space" in front of things....).
Some reasonable lines, but as a story Gatiss should be a bit embarrassed really.


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> Sleep grot builds up (despite them not sleeping), becomes sentient by space magic (it's not clever to just put the word "space" in front of things....).


the grot that escapes when we sleep needs somewhere else to go when we are forced into megasleep, and coalesces into such a size that it becomes sentient.  It's simple evolution.

Don't mock, it could happen!


----------



## kabbes (Nov 18, 2015)

What's the big deal about sleep, though?  Why not dandruff monsters?  Or jism monsters?  Why does sleep have this special property by which it would become sentient?  It's no different to any other human waste.  It makes no sense whatsoever.

There are some interesting stories to be tapped in the results of sleep deprivation.  Other, proper sci-Fi writers have gone there in the past with fascinating results.  But just saying "eye sleep becomes a monster lol"  is nothing but a pathetic waste of an opportunity.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 18, 2015)

At the Who Festival, for the SFX session Gatiss suggested a monster which lives in your brain "in the 90% that you never use", even though that's been pretty roundly debunked. Even that would have been better than the living sneeze that appeared on Saturday night.


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2015)

kabbes said:


> What's the big deal about sleep, though?  Why not dandruff monsters?  Or jism monsters?  Why does sleep have this special property by which it would become sentient?  It's no different to any other human waste.  It makes no sense whatsoever.
> 
> There are some interesting stories to be tapped in the results of sleep deprivation.  Other, proper sci-Fi writers have gone there in the past with fascinating results.  But just saying "eye sleep becomes a monster lol"  is nothing but a pathetic waste of an opportunity.


well, eye sleep is only created when you sleep (supposedly), so an enforced supersleep makes it go wacky. Not sure how that would work with dandruff or jism (which would have to be kept back for a Torchwood episode*), tho there is no reason why it couldnt.

It makes far more sense than the power of love.


* Actually, they can't have a jism monster, as the point of the sleep monster was to get kids to go to bed and sleep.  With a jism monster they'd have to go to bed and....


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2015)

sleep deprivation/fuck up episodes on things can work. Remember that x files episodes where a load of marines had been surgically altered for no sleep mode. That was good.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> At the Who Festival, for the SFX session Gatiss suggested a monster which lives in your brain "in the 90% that you never use", even though that's been pretty roundly debunked. Even that would have been better than the living sneeze that appeared on Saturday night.


that throwaway sci fi film Lucy used the same old 'QI Fact'

looks like its still true in some writers heads


----------



## Pingu (Nov 18, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Was that really it for that story?  It was utter shit.  Not "comparatively shit but we love it anyway".  Just shit.  No excuses for it: it made no sense, it started plot lines that went nowhere, the monsters were pointless, ridiculous and stupid.  It was an embarrassment.  I'd assumed it was all just a set up for the actual story in part 2, but now it seems like this is not the case.  If anyone saw that as their first foray into Who, they'll never bother coming back.




^this

had the potential to be another "are you my mummy" or "blink" but fucked it up spectacularly


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> that throwaway sci fi film Lucy used the same old 'QI Fact'
> 
> looks like its still true in some writers heads


everyone knows its bollocks (including Besson, apparently), but it's too good a load of old bollocks to waste


----------



## BigTom (Nov 18, 2015)

I thought it was going to be a retelling of the tempest/forbidden planet, with the sleep monsters being the ID of the scientist guy, brought to life as a by-product of the morpheus sleep deprivation science process. I'm with everyone else, assumed it was a two parter and maybe there'd be a pay off in the second part, rubbish.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 19, 2015)

BigTom said:


> I thought it was going to be a retelling of the tempest/forbidden planet, with the sleep monsters being the ID of the scientist guy, brought to life as a by-product of the morpheus sleep deprivation science process. I'm with everyone else, assumed it was a two parter and maybe there'd be a pay off in the second part, rubbish.


Yes, this was exactly where I thought it was going too.

I'm still disgusted by its shitness five days later.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 19, 2015)

I'm still disgusted by the shitness of The rings of Akhaten two and a half years later.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 19, 2015)

.


----------



## T & P (Nov 21, 2015)

Wow. Best episode of the entire series by far.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 21, 2015)

Yes, well written, well acted, twisty turny and they got rid of Clara 

Just Capaldi next week.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2015)

yes a vast improvement on last week. That 'invisible street' trope is not unknown in other fiction but they Who'd it nicely. Also, raven, psychopomp, huggin and munnin. etc.

is she really dead?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 21, 2015)

Oh oh, and retconning


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2015)

good to see the tardis in flight again also. I was hoping the sonic specs would tragically fall off when clara was leaning out the door but APPARENTLY they are now a thing.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 21, 2015)

meh. Didn't care for the story, the pacing, any of it really. I expected to roar when Clara bought it but I didn't, love her as I do/did. Just found it all a bit dull.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 21, 2015)

Wasn't really following, but ISTR they had Maisie William's eyebrows slither off her face and execute people, which makes sensible use of what talent she has.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 21, 2015)

S☼I said:


> meh. Didn't care for the story, the pacing, any of it really. I expected to roar when Clara bought it but I didn't, love her as I do/did. Just found it all a bit dull.


I thought halfway through this is a really good episode. The style seemed in someway reminiscent of a Tennant episode.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 21, 2015)

So much fucking pontificating in this season. It's dragging like the third book of War and Peace.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 22, 2015)

I never watched past the first season of GoT, but I'm definitely coming to the opinion that Maisie Williams is a not very good actor.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2015)

I've recalled the lost streets idea I last read! it was in China Meivilles 'Looking for Jake' and was done in the syle of a collection of desperately written case notes about a small coterie of people investigating feral streets. Streets that appear in different times and places. Creepy as hell.

I thought maisie was ok but there was no swordfighting so thats a minus.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2015)

Terrible episode. Slow, ponderous, drawn out. Long, long, long, long, long, long farewell speeches we're supposed to find emotional but are really just dull, and are probably cheating us anyway because Moffatt never knows when to stop; we'll see Clara again somehow and get a chance to say goodbye to her all over again in some boringly "poignant" way. 

 What's wrong with just dumping companions in Edinburgh? Why do we have to spend 40 minutes inventing some "significant" way of making sure they can't ever come back from their parallel universe/Dr Donna Paradox/possibly penultimate death?  

Also, who the fuck is Rigsby?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2015)

And Diagon Ally? Really?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 22, 2015)

I was just annoyed by; 
It's a trap! Puts arm in trap. 
The death can be taken back, oh but now it can't. 

Now if Capaldi had been generous she could have passed it to him, he'd had died, and regenerated into a better actor. Clara could have just retired having been taught the lesson that she ain't as clever as the doctor after all.


----------



## Chz (Nov 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> And Diagon Ally? Really?


Oh come now, there's not a single original idea in Harry Potter. Certainly it's been done before, but don't give Rowling the credit for it.


----------



## gosub (Nov 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I was just annoyed by;
> It's a trap! Puts arm in trap.
> The death can be taken back, oh but now it can't.
> 
> Now if Capaldi had been generous she could have passed it to him, he'd had died, and regenerated into a better actor. Clara could have just retired having been taught the lesson that she ain't as clever as the doctor after all.



If ever there was something you use a sonic screwdriver on, its a yale lock.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 22, 2015)

gosub said:


> If ever there was something you use a sonic screwdriver on, its a yale lock.


Well I immediately thought put your shades on, and immediately felt dirty afterwards.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2015)

Chz said:


> Oh come now, there's not a single original idea in Harry Potter. Certainly it's been done before, but don't give Rowling the credit for it.


I'm giving her credit for a very famous example that's been in 8 blockbuster movies and 7 best selling books in very recent history. If you're going to have intersexuality with a cultural reference, at least make it something a little less done to death.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Terrible episode. Slow, ponderous, drawn out. Long, long, long, long, long, long farewell speeches we're supposed to find emotional but are really just dull, and are probably cheating us anyway because Moffatt never knows when to stop; we'll see Clara again somehow and get a chance to say goodbye to her all over again in some boringly "poignant" way.
> 
> What's wrong with just dumping companions in Edinburgh? Why do we have to spend 40 minutes inventing some "significant" way of making sure they can't ever come back from their parallel universe/Dr Donna Paradox/possibly penultimate death?
> 
> Also, who the fuck is Rigsby?


"Who the fuck is Rigsby?" is certainly what I spent the whole episode thinking.  Was he supposed to be familiar to us??

Agree with everything else you said too.  The last 20 minutes were as dull as the dullest of all waters from streams, rivers, ditches or any other boggy water traps.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 22, 2015)

was he not the one from Flatland?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2015)

Chz said:


> Oh come now, there's not a single original idea in Harry Potter. Certainly it's been done before, but don't give Rowling the credit for it.


I could provide numerous examples and have. It's a riff/companion to the old trope of the mysterious shop that appears, sells cursed goods and then next day when you want to give it back the shop is gone.

I thought this was a strong episode. Speechifying aside. Any time a companion dies we have to have the speeches.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> was he not the one from* Flatland*?


same writer is currently working on a new Many Worlds type sliders series for E4, meant to be in the vein of Misfits 

and yeah, I thought he was the graph lad whose work saved the day


----------



## kabbes (Nov 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> same writer is currently working on a new Many Worlds type sliders series for E4, meant to be in the vein of Misfits
> 
> and yeah, I thought he was the graph lad whose work saved the day


They shouldn't treat a character from a single one-off episode in a previous series as if it is someone we know and care about.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2015)

kabbes said:


> They shouldn't treat a character from a single one-off episode in a previous series as if it is someone we know and care about.


a fair point. I was well into a bag of weed by the time Who came on* so I just let it slide and went with it but there could have been some more establishing of the character as a player previously. Even a flashback scene of some kind might have carried it.

*getting annoyed at the lateness of the airing all over again. Whats wrong with seven thirty pm ffs?


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 22, 2015)

7.30 = halfway through strictly.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I could provide numerous examples and have. It's a riff/companion to the old trope of the mysterious shop that appears, sells cursed goods and then next day when you want to give it back the shop is gone.
> 
> I thought this was a strong episode. Speechifying aside. Any time a companion dies we have to have the speeches.



My favourite version is Pratchett's traveling shops which takes the piss out of the many magic shop tropes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> My favourite version is Pratchett's traveling shops which takes the piss out of the many magic shop tropes.


Stephen King's 'Needful Things' is a savage take on it. Probs the best he's done second to the Stand


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> 7.30 = halfway through strictly.


can't strictly be on earlier. Its a tyranny of dance I tell thee


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Terrible episode. Slow, ponderous, drawn out. Long, long, long, long, long, long farewell speeches we're supposed to find emotional but are really just dull, and are probably cheating us anyway because Moffatt never knows when to stop; we'll see Clara again somehow and get a chance to say goodbye to her all over again in some boringly "poignant" way.
> 
> What's wrong with just dumping companions in Edinburgh? Why do we have to spend 40 minutes inventing some "significant" way of making sure they can't ever come back from their parallel universe/Dr Donna Paradox/possibly penultimate death?
> 
> Also, who the fuck is Rigsby?


I can think of a pretty good way to bring back Clara. Have him raid his own timeline, hunting down and recruiting various versions of Clara as soon as she has saved his life. They could have really short life spans either because of their nature (the first two dying not being a coincidence) or better as Clara's that exist solely as a part of her personality out to save The Doctor and so are particularly likely to fall victim to the pitalls of time travel whereas leaving them be they could live a full life. We could see him doing this and getting one or two adventures out of a couple of them before they expire due to sacrificing themselves for him/pal of the week or overenthusiasm. There could be bit halfway through where we find out the Doctor has been doing this for a stupid amount of time like a couple of centuries. A joke aspect is that their dress, personality and dialogue could hint at what adventure they have been snatched from. If the original Clara reappears after the point of her death in her personal timeline I'd be pretty pissed off.


----------



## ebonics (Nov 22, 2015)

I loved this episode -- well, I loved parts of this episode. I love when any Doctor gets quiet and angry, and I think Capaldi is fucking terrifying when he turns those eyebrows on ya. Clara has grown on me, so I did feel a hint of an emotion as she yodeled off this mortal coil. I recognized Rigby right off: I liked his character in Flatland, and I'm glad they brought him back. I ain't trying to have him shmoney onto the Tardis as the new companion, though.

I was disappointed as hell to see Maisie back, though. I like the actress fine, but couldn't have cared less about her character.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 22, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> I can think of a pretty good way to bring back Clara. Have him raid his own timeline, hunting down and recruiting various versions of Clara as soon as she has saved his life. They could have really short life spans either because of their nature (the first two dying not being a coincidence) or better as Clara's that exist solely as a part of her personality out to save The Doctor and so are particularly likely to fall victim to the pitalls of time travel whereas leaving them be they could live a full life. We could see him doing this and getting one or two adventures out of a couple of them before they expire due to sacrificing themselves for him/pal of the week or overenthusiasm. There could be bit halfway through where we find out the Doctor has been doing this for a stupid amount of time like a couple of centuries. A joke aspect is that their dress, personality and dialogue could hint at what adventure they have been snatched from. If the original Clara reappears after the point of her death in her personal timeline I'd be pretty pissed off.



Well this is where we get non linear. In theory the Doctor who has gone on adventures with Clara previously in our timeline perspective) could  be The Doctor from a future where Clara has already died (in his timeline perspective). Any part of her life where she isn't traveling with the doctor is a part where he can go back and pick her up for an adventure. But she'd be suspicious if she started running out of real life (he turns up 30 seconds after dropping her off).


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Well this is where we get non linear. In theory the Doctor who has gone on adventures with Clara previously in our timeline perspective) could  be The Doctor from a future where Clara has already died (in his timeline perspective). Any part of her life where she isn't traveling with the doctor is a part where he can go back and pick her up for an adventure. But she'd be suspicious if she started running out of real life (he turns up 30 seconds after dropping her off).


There was talk of some of this years being the Doctor going back after her death though the same was said of Amy and Rory's last episodes and nothing came of that.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 22, 2015)

Clara was annoying as fuck ("wheeee!" as she dangles out the TARDIS -- really, just fuck right off) and I'm glad she's dead.  That didn't help the supposed solemnity of the occasion.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 22, 2015)

There's a great China Mieville short story about wandering streets, or 'via ferae' as he calls them.

e2a@: Dottie beat me to it.


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

The street also looked very like Alsacia, in the latest (and probably previous) Michael Moorcock.

It was a good episode until the far too drawn out death. Having seen on facebook that the episode had been judged 'poignant', there wasn't much tension about what would happen to Clara.  But a death is always going to be drawn out, they're not just going to kill her and amble off, that would never do for the younger viewers.

Oh, and its Rigsy, not Rigby or Rigsby, are you all bloody deaf?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> Oh, and its Rigsy, not Rigby or Risgby, are you all bloody deaf?



The Damp is rising, Will, and you are the last of the Old Ones.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> Oh, and its Rigsy, not Rigby or Risgby, are you all bloody deaf?



You fool. Rigsy played for Man Utd and is welsh. That was definitely not him.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> Oh, and its Rigsy, not Rigby or Rigsby, are you all bloody deaf?


Well, yes, significantly so at certain frequencies and in certain environments. Like in programmes where there's loud non-diegetic music as well as noisy diegetic background noise over mumbled dialogue. 

As well as where there's rising damp.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 23, 2015)

Anyhow, I'm calling it. The shark has been jumped. I really liked Clara and yet somehow they managed to make me not care when she died.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 23, 2015)

The shark has only just been jumped now?


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 23, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anyhow, I'm calling it. The shark has been jumped. I really liked Clara and yet somehow they managed to make me not care when she died.


I cared when it clicked that she was fucked. By the time she finally shuffled off I didn't.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> I cared when it clicked that she was fucked. By the time she finally shuffled off I didn't.


That's exactly it, though, isn't it? 

Ok, goodbye, get on the train already.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 23, 2015)

Would have helped if the plot had made some sense too, but it didn't.


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Would have helped if the plot had made some sense too, but it didn't.


what didn't?  One of the more straightforward ones, I thought


----------



## 8den (Nov 23, 2015)

I really haven't bothered to watch the last two. Should I?


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 23, 2015)

8den said:


> I really haven't bothered to watch the last two. Should I?



In terms of keeping up with perceived quality issues; yes. The last one is the superior, fwiw.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 23, 2015)

GOT shows how you do deaths.  Out of the blue, shocking, things just carry the fuck on.  Who has become spectacularly awful at it.


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

kabbes said:


> GOT shows how you do deaths.  Out of the blue, shocking, things just carry the fuck on.  Who has become spectacularly awful at it.


GoT doesn't have a large audience of under tens.  Sorry,  but that's a silly comparison.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Nov 23, 2015)

kabbes said:


> GOT shows how you do deaths.  Out of the blue, shocking, things just carry the fuck on.  Who has become spectacularly awful at it.



Pity about the rest of it really.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 23, 2015)

kabbes said:


> GOT shows how you do deaths.  Out of the blue, shocking, things just carry the fuck on.  Who has become spectacularly awful at it.


tbh i thought it was a bit long drawn out. in that time they could have hanged, drawn and quartered her or broken her on the wheel or something. it was of course better than the quick and easy death so many have had at the hands of daleks: but i was left in the unusual position of wanting less, i thought it was treated rather mawkishly.

_113,000_


----------



## 8den (Nov 23, 2015)

kabbes said:


> GOT shows how you do deaths.  Out of the blue, shocking, things just carry the fuck on.  Who has become spectacularly awful at it.



As others have point out they do have rather different audiences. 

Though if you like I have done some GoT/Doctor Who slash fic you'd like.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

at least the raven of death was cool


----------



## kabbes (Nov 23, 2015)

You don't have to make Who deaths as brutal and unpleasant, but you can learn lessons about not having 20 minutes of tedious drawn out lectures.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 23, 2015)

I've not watched an episode since Capaldi was ranting and lecturing about war in the second part of that Zygon story. Is it wortch catching up?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

kabbes said:


> You don't have to make Who deaths as brutal and unpleasant, but you can learn lessons about not having 20 minutes of tedious drawn out lectures.



end of last season, the dream episode where she was supposed to die as old Clara but signed on for another season so they changed the ending? that would have been by far the better exit for clara


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 23, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> I've not watched an episode since Capaldi was ranting and lecturing about war in the second part of that Zygon story. Is it wortch catching up?



Yes. Take the good with the bad.


----------



## Chz (Nov 23, 2015)

Was I the only one thinking "There's a perfectly good stasis pod right behind you"?

Obviously it doesn't cure the problem, but at least it would give everyone time to think it out.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 23, 2015)

2 minutes from a time machine.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

there are fixed points in space and time.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> end of last season, the dream episode where she was supposed to die as old Clara but signed on for another season so they changed the ending? that would have been by far the better exit for clara


Yes.  Shame that they didn't stick to their idea, hey?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2015)

Chz said:


> Was I the only one thinking "There's a perfectly good stasis pod right behind you"?
> 
> Obviously it doesn't cure the problem, but at least it would give everyone time to think it out.


Well, you maybe weren't the only one, but if there were others I wasn't among them. I did think about the Tardis though. If he gets that angry and is prepared to carry out those threats, breaking several codes he usually tries to live by, why not just go back and warn her that taking on the tattoo curse isn't the solution it might appear?


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

Chz said:


> Was I the only one thinking "There's a perfectly good stasis pod right behind you"?
> 
> Obviously it doesn't cure the problem, but at least it would give everyone time to think it out.


There was nothing to think, nothing could be done.  Nothing. They made that point quite clearly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

the quantum crow was able to go any time any place. I don't think a stasis pod would have kept the crow of doom away


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the quantum crow was able to go any time any place. I don't think a stasis pod would have kept the crow of doom away



Quantum Crow - sounds like a great band name...


----------



## Chz (Nov 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the quantum crow was able to go any time any place. I don't think a stasis pod would have kept the crow of doom away


By normal sci-fi convention, a stasis pod (as opposed to deep freeze, or a hibernation pod) is no time and no place. She'd die the nanosecond it was turned off, but they should have all the time in the world to think about what to do while it's active. The raven can enter it, but stasis is stasis - it's frozen too. 

Of course, the moment I have to resort to "normal sci-fi convention" I've lost the battle when it's Doctor Who.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> what didn't?  One of the more straightforward ones, I thought


 
It was never explained how the doctor knew that the tattoo thingy had come from a trap street for one thing.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 23, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> I've not watched an episode since Capaldi was ranting and lecturing about war in the second part of that Zygon story. Is it wortch catching up?



Only the first four episodes of this series have been any good at all. I fell asleep during the second part of the zygon one.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 23, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh i thought it was a bit long drawn out. in that time they could have hanged, drawn and quartered her or broken her on the wheel or something. it was of course better than the quick and easy death so many have had at the hands of daleks: but i was left in the unusual position of wanting less, i thought it was treated rather mawkishly.
> 
> _113,000_



Remember how long Tennant's Doctor took to die? I think I went to make a cup of tea, came back and he was still dying. Then I went and made a beef wellington from scratch, came back and he was _still_ fucking dying 

e2a: The little sister was sobbing pathetically throughout the whole thing. She would have been about 18 at the time


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 23, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Remember how long Tennant's Doctor took to die? I think I went to make a cup of tea, came back and he was still dying. Then I went and made a beef wellington from scratch, came back and he was _still_ fucking dying


yeh. but i thought that was a sarcastick comment on blair's farewell tour


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Remember how long Tennant's Doctor took to die? I think I went to make a cup of tea, came back and he was still dying. Then I went and made a beef wellington from scratch, came back and he was _still_ fucking dying


 that was a bit ott. He took the lethal dose of whatever it was then had a long long time to set affairs in order. You didn't see Spock milking it like that


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Remember how long Tennant's Doctor took to die? I think I went to make a cup of tea, came back and he was still dying. Then I went and made a beef wellington from scratch, came back and he was _still_ fucking dying


Beef Wellington from scratch.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Nov 23, 2015)

Chz said:


> Was I the only one thinking "There's a perfectly good stasis pod right behind you"?
> 
> Obviously it doesn't cure the problem, but at least it would give everyone time to think it out.



Quantum means "fuck time travel n shit, I'm taking your ass when this arbitrary timer finishes"

Though if they'd travelled at relativistic speeds they'd have confused the shit out of the raven and made it lose count.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 23, 2015)

Excellent episode,my eldest granddaughter is still upset about clara and the two year old started crying when she died, admittedly a little drawn out on the stepping out to die bit but not enough to affect the feeling of a properly enjoyed Dr Who episode.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2015)

It had escaped my attention that today is Dr Who Day, and the 52nd anniversary of the first episode airing. 







Happy Dr Who Day.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 23, 2015)

that pic reminds me: deep, deep love for capaldi's wine-coloured velvet suit on saturday.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It had escaped my attention that today is Dr Who Day, and the 52nd anniversary of the first episode airing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thats a shot from the 50th anniversary 

look at bill just styling it out at the back there


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 23, 2015)

That text on the left is Aurebesh - the writing system used in Star Wars.

It says "DeLorean"....


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> thats a shot from the 50th anniversary


Yes it is.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 23, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> View attachment 79970
> 
> That text on the left is Aurebesh - the writing system used in Star Wars.
> 
> It says "DeLorean"....


while i have deep affection for the set team for their dedication to meta-geekery, shouldn't the tardis's translation technology have rendered that into English?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes it is.


Doctor had been working on it for all his incarnations. Always. It reached a climax during the 50th episode. Surely this must rock an octavians faith to the very core


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 23, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> while i have deep affection for the set team for their dedication to meta-geekery, shouldn't the tardis's translation technology have rendered that into English?


Doesn't always work. See "The Bells of St John" with the mysterious WiFi network names...

See also "retconning"


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)




----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Doctor had been working on it for all his incarnations. Always. It reached a climax during the 50th episode. Surely this must rock an octavians faith to the very core


We don't deny the regenerations, we merely point out that while all other regenerations have been recorded by documentary crews, the middle four have sadly been rendered in garbled docu-dramas cobbled together in second hand stories told by people who weren't actually there. So they do contain truths, but also many inaccuracies and even hallucinations. Like the New Testament.


----------



## Cid (Nov 24, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I was just annoyed by;
> It's a trap! Puts arm in trap.
> The death can be taken back, oh but now it can't.
> 
> Now if Capaldi had been generous she could have passed it to him, he'd had died, and regenerated into a better actor. Clara could have just retired having been taught the lesson that she ain't as clever as the doctor after all.



Actors can only work with the material they're given. Tenant - excellent actor, Ecclestone - Excellent actor... Smith. Er... Not so sure. I mean he's not got the same background and track record. All had shit episodes... All performing nowhere near their peak. Tenant in particular with some truly bloody awful stuff. The problem is not the actors. Not that new who isn't sometimes great, it's just inconsistent and dips into outright shitness a bit too often for such a major production.



belboid said:


> GoT doesn't have a large audience of under tens.  Sorry,  but that's a silly comparison.



Many under 10s have to cope with death directly and most are going to have a friend dealing with it. Doesn't have to be violent, but who at its best is something that tries to empathise with its audience, helps provide analogous experiences.


----------



## belboid (Nov 24, 2015)

Cid said:


> Many under 10s have to cope with death directly and most are going to have a friend dealing with it. Doesn't have to be violent, but who at its best is something that tries to empathise with its audience, helps provide analogous experiences.


which is exactly what they did. The ending didn't work for me, but it seems to have done so for them  there kids, as far as I can tell.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 24, 2015)

Cid said:


> Actors can only work with the material they're given. Tenant - excellent actor, Ecclestone - Excellent actor... Smith. Er... Not so sure. I mean he's not got the same background and track record. All had shit episodes... All performing nowhere near their peak. Tenant in particular with some truly bloody awful stuff. The problem is not the actors. Not that new who isn't sometimes great, it's just inconsistent and dips into outright shitness a bit too often for such a major production.
> 
> 
> Many under 10s have to cope with death directly and most are going to have a friend dealing with it. Doesn't have to be violent, but who at its best is something that tries to empathise with its audience, helps provide analogous experiences.



I'm reminded of Wayne's World where they stop at a petrol station for directions. Wayne stops the movie and says i know its a small part but can't we get a better actor than this. Second actor makes rubbish material into something awesome. So i say excuses excuses!


----------



## Cid (Nov 24, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I'm reminded of Wayne's World where they stop at a petrol station for directions. Wayne stops the movie and says i know its a small part but can't we get a better actor than this. Second actor makes rubbish material into something awesome. So i say excuses excuses!



Congratulations on completely missing the point.


----------



## Cid (Nov 24, 2015)

belboid said:


> which is exactly what they did. The ending didn't work for me, but it seems to have done so for them  there kids, as far as I can tell.



It wasn't nearly as bad as Tenant farewell, I'll grant that... Still, it does always seem to be a heroic thing with farewells and all. Hopefully they'll just leave it now, without some kind of shitty artifice allowing the doctor to save part of her or get additional closure. She should have died in fear though, realising the Doctor can't save her and the folly of her own hubris. Er... that might not have been kid friendly though.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 24, 2015)

Much as I hated Amy, didn't she and Rory get a sudden, unprepared-for ending? Or was that not their final bit? 

Also, I have to confess my love for Tennant's overblown goodbye.   It was a farewell to all RTD'sstory strands, his world of characters.   Plus, it was framed with the peerless Bernard Cribbins.  Plus, if anyone had the acting chops to carry that level of sentiment off, it was DT.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 25, 2015)

Cid said:


> It wasn't nearly as bad as Tenant farewell, I'll grant that... Still, it does always seem to be a heroic thing with farewells and all. Hopefully they'll just leave it now, without some kind of shitty artifice allowing the doctor to save part of her or get additional closure. She should have died in fear though, realising the Doctor can't save her and the folly of her own hubris. Er... that might not have been kid friendly though.


She did die in fear,fear of not being brave, of what her death would do to the doctor and of death itself all because she was being clever and over-confident and because she didn't listen properly, it also seemed to involve a fair bit of pain as well,  that was what I saw in her performance and for me it was a sad scene that was beautifully played by coleman and capaldi.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 25, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Quantum Crow - sounds like a great band name...



Or a stupid name for a Doctor Who baddie.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 25, 2015)

The one bit of good news is that Clara fucking Oswald is gone.  I think she was overwhelmingly the reason that it has been shit since 2013.  Terrible character with terrible dialogue and terrible stories that was terribly acted.  ("Wheeeee!"  Fuck off).


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 25, 2015)

I didn't dislike the character of Clara as such, but I did feel that the dynamic between her and the doctor was never quite right.

This isn't about gender. I'd say just the same if the 'assistant' was male, or for that matter if the doctor was female. The assistant works best when he/she reflects for the most part how we, the viewer, would experience things. Clara's too confident, too blase about it. Feisty is fine, fighty is fine, disagreeing with the doc is fine, but it's felt like there's too much of the 'yeah, I'm a time traveller, whatevs <rolleyes>' attitude.


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> This isn't about gender. I'd say just the same if the 'assistant' was male, or for that matter if the doctor was female. The assistant works best when he/she reflects for the most part how we, the viewer, would experience things. Clara's too confident, too blase about it. Feisty is fine, fighty is fine, disagreeing with the doc is fine, but it's felt like there's too much of the 'yeah, I'm a time traveller, whatevs <rolleyes>' attitude.


which is exactly what got her killed


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 25, 2015)

belboid said:


> which is exactly what got her killed



Well, serves her right, is what i'm saying.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 25, 2015)

belboid said:


> which is exactly what got her killed


They'd been hammering that point all series,  to the point where I though they where heading down the line of her basically having a death wish.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 25, 2015)

it started in Flatland and then has been pushed with all the subtlety of of a carnival since.

I thought clara made a good companion tbh. Now we can start speculating about who will be the new companion/s


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 25, 2015)

Let's hope not Rigsy, providing many hilarious opportunities for the doctor to make more borderline-racist asides about his street smarts.


----------



## 8den (Nov 25, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Remember how long Tennant's Doctor took to die? :



There have been shorter farewell tours from the Rolling Stones.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 25, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> Well, serves her right, is what i'm saying.



Yes, the one interesting bit in all this is that a major character has actually suffered the consequences of a stupid decision for once. I suppose they'd run out of contrived ways for a companion to be left to live out their days happily but in such a way that prevents the doctor from having anything more to do with them. So Clara did something that was very likely to get her killed and killed was what she got. A pity about all the ham-fisted foreshadowing that Moffat clearly crowbarred into other people's scripts at random points.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 25, 2015)

8den said:


> There have been shorter farewell tours from the Rolling Stones.



And the Stones are marginally less likely to keep bloody showing up again no matter how many times you're sure they're gone.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 25, 2015)

So River Song in the Xmas special, Moffat said he thought it might be the last Who he wrote. 
Pity it isn't, I'm a bit tired of the unsubtle arc steer and iffy episodes written by his mates.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 25, 2015)

Does he get to handpick an heir or  is there some sort of higher power?


----------



## 8den (Nov 25, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> So River Song in the Xmas special, Moffat said he thought it might be the last Who he wrote.
> Pity it isn't, I'm a bit tired of the unsubtle arc steer and iffy episodes written by his mates.



Don't be a prick tease Moffat, jog off.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 25, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yes, the one interesting bit in all this is that a major character has actually suffered the consequences of a stupid decision for once. I suppose they'd run out of contrived ways for a companion to be left to live out their days happily but in such a way that prevents the doctor from having anything more to do with them. So Clara did something that was very likely to get her killed and killed was what she got. A pity about all the ham-fisted foreshadowing that Moffat clearly crowbarred into other people's scripts at random points.


I guess the old finding a man trope is bit unacceptable to the PC battalion.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 25, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> I guess the old finding a man trope is bit unacceptable to the PC battalion.



Finances are tight in the MoD these days - even the PC troops don't add up to a whole Brigade any more


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 28, 2015)

Worst. Episode. Ever.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2015)

that was crap


----------



## Santino (Nov 28, 2015)

I liked it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 28, 2015)

that was a fucking banging episode. I was glued to it. I may have to have it as best of the season come the post season analysis. Also the trail for next episode had people wearing the seal of rassilon on their armour so that pleased me.

Really pleased with that after a brief run of merely okayish ones


----------



## Santino (Nov 28, 2015)

Reminded me of the time I punched my way through a diamond wall.


----------



## DexterTCN (Nov 28, 2015)

Anyone seen the film Triangle?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 28, 2015)

there was something about the slidey section castle shots that reminded me of the GoT opening title sequence


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 28, 2015)

The creature and the TV screens was like watching a rip off of the ghost of Christmas future from Scrooged!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 28, 2015)

I thought that was excellent. 



> High in the North in a land called Svithjod there is a mountain. It is a hundred miles long and a hundred miles high and once every thousand years a little bird comes to this mountain to sharpen its beak. When the mountain has thus been worn away a single day of eternity will have passed


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 28, 2015)

I was bored rigid. It was even worse than the one where they sang a Snow Patrol song to a moon. Never have I been so bored by Dr Who. Ever. 

I felt like I'd been watching it for 2 gazillion years, or however long it was. 

And it did that terrible, terrible thing that I hate so very very much about Sherlock, where it explains his fast thinking with tiny flashbacks.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 28, 2015)

luckily your fingers shook off the lock effect in order that you could come online and slate one of the best capaldi episodes yet. It was amazeballs.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 28, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> And it did that terrible, terrible thing that I hate so very very much about Sherlock, where it explains his fast thinking with tiny flashbacks.



I don't remember any flashbacks in this episode.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 28, 2015)

I did like it. But why didn't he use the spade? 
Other than the (very true) fact that punching the shit out of it was a lot more epic.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 28, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I don't remember any flashbacks in this episode.


The thing with the chair. Where he threw it through the window then flashed back to each calculation he made. Gravity - back to Jewel microscope thing dropping. Air speed. - back to petals wafting. Distance to water - back to the splash. 

That.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 28, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> The thing with the chair. Where he threw it through the window then flashed back to each calculation he made. Gravity - back to Jewel microscope thing dropping. Air speed. - back to petals wafting. Distance to water - back to the splash.
> 
> That.



Oh right, yes, the first time that was shown. I guess the Doctor could have explained it out loud to himself.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 28, 2015)

Bored bored bored bored. Then finally a reason for this hour long pile of shit. My daughter and I watch all the new ones together on the sofa and have started on the (too) many DVDs I own now and then. It's great to see her get scares and thrills out of shit 70s/80s kids drama, I can see she enjoys the twists and ham. As a kid of eight she doesn't care about effects, only story. Stuff I think is cheezy shit begins to have good basis in solid story, wobbling sets be dammed.

If my eight year old daughter can't tell me what happened in todays who while I visit the toilet then some thing is wrong.


----------



## May Kasahara (Nov 28, 2015)

I am only a sometime Who watcher but I thought that was bloody great, a stylish evocation of the horrible trap that is grief and guilt. Also enjoyed the echoes of Cube, another divisive piece of entertainment that I rate.


----------



## gosub (Nov 28, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Anyone seen the film Triangle?


I thought that


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 28, 2015)

Why didn't he tell himself "pneumatic drill" in the sand instead of birds? 

Silly man


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 28, 2015)

I really liked it. Best episode of the series by a fucking mile. Proper 70s episode, reminded me of a Baker story set in his own mind. Terrific acting performance from Capaldi, great lines, scary monster, really good visuals, epic punching.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 28, 2015)

lizzieloo said:


> Why didn't he tell himself "pneumatic drill" in the sand instead of birds?
> 
> Silly man



Because pneumatic drill pecking at a mountain isn't a well known parable?

Plus he doesn't have one. 

If all the rooms reset... Why doesn't the diamond?

I'll confess to loving him wearing same clothes looped.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 28, 2015)

That was Groundhog Day for the terminally humourless.

He could have at least dragged the spade with him and saved a couple of million years' worth of diamond-wall punching.

I want to know _why _too. Yeah, yeah, I know metaphor-for-grief etc. But he's supposed to actually appear there at the start, and go somewhere else at the end, right? It's not all psychodrama. So how did he get there?


----------



## Cid (Nov 28, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> That was Groundhog Day for the terminally humourless.
> 
> He could have at least dragged the spade with him and saved a couple of million years' worth of diamond-wall punching.
> 
> I want to know _why _too. Yeah, yeah, I know metaphor-for-grief etc. But he's supposed to actually appear there at the start, and go somewhere else at the end, right? It's not all psychodrama. So how did he get there?



Billion. Couple of billion.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 28, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> That was Groundhog Day for the terminally humourless.
> 
> He could have at least dragged the spade with him and saved a couple of million years' worth of diamond-wall punching.
> 
> I want to know _why _too. Yeah, yeah, I know metaphor-for-grief etc. But he's supposed to actually appear there at the start, and go somewhere else at the end, right? It's not all psychodrama. So how did he get there?



Massie tricked him into wearing a teleport bracelet in the previous episode as part of a deal she made with someone.

The someone constructed this trap.

The trap has an exit covered in diamond. Why have an exit at all is anyone's guess.

Exit leads to Galifray because of course if you are going to trap someone really dangerous you want them to end up on your front door when they escape full of rage.

Hopefully it will make more sense next week.


----------



## joustmaster (Nov 28, 2015)

Great episode.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 28, 2015)

I guess we have to add a couple of years on to the Doctor's age now, then.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 28, 2015)

Cid said:


> Billion. Couple of billion.



If i was going to be really pedantic. I know punching diamond for billions of years is incredibly dramatic and therefore good telly...

But for the diamond to wear down each punch would have to wear the diamond down ever so slightly.... and it wouldn't, not a single molecule's worth.
Only diamond will cut diamond. Rather than wearing the diamond down instead he would slowly be forced backwards out of the room as a billion years of skin left on the surface of the diamond built up into a wall of flesh.


----------



## Cid (Nov 28, 2015)

Gromit said:


> If i was going to be really pedantic. I know punching diamond for billions of years is incredibly dramatic and therefore good telly...
> 
> But for the diamond to wear down each punch would have to wear the diamond down ever so slightly.... and it wouldn't, not a single molecule's worth.
> Only diamond will cut diamond. Rather than wearing the diamond down instead he would slowly be forced backwards out of the room as a billion years of skin left on the surface of the diamond built up into a wall of flesh.



Also what the hell are the tower's gears made of?


----------



## zoooo (Nov 29, 2015)

I thought he said it wasn't diamond, but something _like_ diamond?
I probably misheard though. He's a mumbler.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2015)

zoooo said:


> I thought he said it wasn't diamond, but something _like_ diamond?
> I probably misheard though. He's a mumbler.



Well they initially try to big it up as even harder than diamond (diamond's big brother, related but does martial arts) and then just went on to call it diamond.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 29, 2015)

S☼I said:


> I really liked it. Best episode of the series by a fucking mile. Proper 70s episode, reminded me of a Baker story set in his own mind. Terrific acting performance from Capaldi, great lines, scary monster, really good visuals, epic punching.


the diction/cadence of his monolouging reminded me of baker a couple of times as it goes.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 29, 2015)

Nah.  I tried really hard to like that one but it added up to less than the sum of its parts.  There were some great ideas, and some fine acting by Capaldi, but overall it just left me cold.  No resolution, ultimately what was the point of that episode?  Tune in next week for the big reveal folks...

I'm quite sad about this as I'm a big Who fan both new and old, but watching this is increasingly becoming a chore.  The BBC need to sack Moffat, stop Mark Gatiss from going anywhere near it ever again, and (probably, sadly) recast the Doctor.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 29, 2015)

yeah but did you see the trail for next week? He's found gallifrey by my guess. What else are all the seals of rassilon and high tech doing in the trail?


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 29, 2015)

zoooo said:


> I guess we have to add a couple of years on to the Doctor's age now, then.


Nope only a day or so at most.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 29, 2015)

Excellent episode again, it was so captivating that my coffee went cold because I forgot it was there, this series has made me a very happy bunny with not an episode that I'd skip when watching the box set. Will also be doing a rewatch tomorrow with the granddaughter.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 29, 2015)

I thought that overall, it was great.  I could quibble about some bits of internal logic, but better just to enjoy the smart concept.  Come on, folks!  He works out that he can trap himself in a perpetual loop that will take 2 fucking /billion/ years to work through but that will let him beat the system.  It's perfect for who he is as a character that this is the solution he would dream up.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the diction/cadence of his monolouging reminded me of baker a couple of times as it goes.


I've noticed that a few times, as it happens.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

ginger_syn said:


> Nope only a day or so at most.


Yep. I'm going to choose to interpret that not as an allegory for grief but as a grief-stricken hallucination. Otherwise it just stretches credulity further than I'm prepared to. I don't want the Doctor to be a gazillion years old. Nor do I want him to be the reset molecules out of a teleporter. Nor do I want the 12th Doctor to have died countless gazillion times. 

He was just tripping with grief. Which is why a lot of the internal logic was nonsense.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Yep. I'm going to choose to interpret that not as an allegory for grief but as a grief-stricken hallucination. Otherwise it just stretches credulity further than I'm prepared to. I don't want the Doctor to be a gazillion years old. Nor do I want him to be the reset molecules out of a teleporter. Nor do I want the 12th Doctor to have died countless gazillion times.
> 
> He was just tripping with grief. Which is why a lot of the internal logic was nonsense.



The  doctor who (no pun intended) steps onto the planet is a doctor who arrived that day through a transporter (a billion years into the future), hit a wall and broke straight through.
Call it an alternative form of time travel with the mechanism being a billion dead clones.

As for Clara, he still needs Clara to bounce ideas off as he doesn't have a new companion yet and isn't over the old. So he creates an imaginary Clara that would say and do everything real Clara would do. Easy enough for a genius like The Doctor to imagine a sim Clara. He does so inside a mind fortress (a mental construct for him to think in) which he decides to make look like the control room of the tardis. As he is a time lord he can think so much faster than us. So even though it looks like he is talking to himself and Clara in ordinary time he is in fact doing it all in nanoseconds. Its been slowed down to allow us to observe but nothing has in reality been slowed..


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

It was unclear how long each Doctor lived in the castle before dying.  He had worked out the longest period he could evade the monster, that might have taken several weeks, and then he talked about eating and sleeping after that.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> It was unclear how long each Doctor lived in the castle before dying.  He had worked out the longest period he could evade the monster, that might have taken several weeks, and then he talked about eating and sleeping after that.



But he doesn't evade the monster. He deliberately backs himself into a corner as soon as he can access Door 12.
So the only question is how long does it take him to get to Door 12.

As the sun never sets or rises the answer 1 night is the most valid. How long that night is in earth hours though....


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

Gromit said:


> But he doesn't evade the monster. He deliberately backs himself into a corner as soon as he can access Door 12.
> So the only question is how long does it take him to get to Door 12.
> 
> As the sun never sets or rises the answer 1 night is the most valid. How long that night is in earth hours though....


He looks at the stars.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> He looks at the stars.



Yep and the stars are present when he arrives and when he leaves. We never see a sky without them.

Its worth noting that we arrive to view his progress from day 8000ish onwards. I'd like to know exactly what happened on day 1 and who fills in the grave he digs?
If rooms reset (and they do as we see his blood trail vanish etc.) why doesn't his skull, his wet clothes and his hole vanish completely?


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Yep and the stars are present when he arrives and when he leaves. We never see a sky without them.
> 
> Its worth noting that we arrive to view his progress from day 8000ish onwards. I'd like to know exactly what happened on day 1 and who fills in the grave he digs?
> If rooms reset (and they do as we see his blood trail vanish etc.) why doesn't his skull, his wet clothes and his hole vanish completely?


No, he has to wait until the stars come out to work out his position in space and time.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> No, he has to wait until the stars come out to work out his position in space and time.



Oh wait yeah.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 29, 2015)

Cid said:


> Billion. Couple of billion.



I know, and overall it still would be. I was just suggesting that punching the wall when you have a sharp metal object to hand was maybe needlessly dragging out the drama for an extra few million.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 29, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Massie tricked him into wearing a teleport bracelet in the previous episode as part of a deal she made with someone.
> 
> The someone constructed this trap.
> 
> ...



Perhaps just trap them into somewhere where there's no oxygen, or into shark-infested waters with lead weights round their feet, or in front of a firing squad, or with a monster that doesn't stop killing you when you tell it you're scared....


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> I know, and overall it still would be. I was just suggesting that punching the wall when you have a sharp metal object to hand was maybe needlessly dragging out the drama for an extra few million.



His skull is harder than his fist too. He could head ram it a few times, he's going to die anyways.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> I know, and overall it still would be. I was just suggesting that punching the wall when you have a sharp metal object to hand was maybe needlessly dragging out the drama for an extra few million.


And he didn't need to use his body as fuel for the teleport anyway. He could have run a cable from the TV monitors dotted around the room. (Cannibalising cable from the unneeded ones). 

And as has been said, why didn't the diamond-like substance re-set also?

And if it only took him a day and a half to climb the stairs after the injury-so-bad-he-couldn't-regenerate (and, mark you, he's regenerated in situations where he certainly couldn't have crawled for a day and a half), why was his body decomposed to a skeleton in that time? In fact it wasn't even a day and a half, because he finds it when he steps out of the teleport. 

And, most importantly, why was the episode so slow and dull that my teenager daughter (who has watched every episode with me since the reboot) got up and left the room after 20 minutes?


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

The point of the trap was to get his secrets/confessions, not necessarily to kill him. 

Was he actually IN his own confession dial? Or was it just a portal or something?


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> And he didn't need to use his body as fuel for the teleport anyway. He could have run a cable from the TV monitors dotted around the room. (Cannibalising cable from the unneeded ones).
> 
> And as has been said, why didn't the diamond-like substance re-set also?
> 
> ...


All his flesh was burnt off by the process of powering up the teleporter (probably with Time Lord energy).


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> All his flesh was burnt off by the process of powering up the teleporter (probably with Time Lord energy).


Ok. I'll buy that. 

But I think the thing that most strongly points to this being an hallucination brought in by grief is the number 12 recurring.  The castle is a dream allegory  for his mind, his person. The 12 is because the psyche being repaired is his 12th regeneration. None of this was real, so it doesn't have to make internal sense. He was tripping with grief.

It's like the coma hotel in the Sopranos when Toby gets shot.


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Ok. I'll buy that.
> 
> But I think the thing that most strongly points to this being an hallucination brought in by grief is the number 12 recurring.  The castle is a dream allegory  for his mind, his person. The 12 is because the psyche being repaired is his 12th regeneration. None of this was real, so it doesn't have to make internal sense. He was tripping with grief.
> 
> It's like the coma hotel in the Sopranos when Toby gets shot.


It could be a dream/hallucination (although it's more powerful if that's left ambiguous), but even if not, the prison was built for him so the 12 could be intentional.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> And he didn't need to use his body as fuel for the teleport anyway. He could have run a cable from the TV monitors dotted around the room. (Cannibalising cable from the unneeded ones).
> 
> And as has been said, why didn't the diamond-like substance re-set also?
> 
> ...


And why wasn't the castle buried in a mountain of skulls by the end?

Also, I figured it out way before he did.


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

emanymton said:


> And why wasn't the castle buried in a mountain of skulls by the end?
> 
> Also, I figured it out way before he did.


The same reason our planet isn't just bones.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> The same reason our planet isn't just bones.


Dogs?


----------



## emanymton (Nov 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> The same reason our planet isn't just bones.


If your suggesting they decayed away, how come the castle was still there. Hrmm


----------



## zoooo (Nov 29, 2015)

I liked that we only saw the back of Clara, that was proper creepy. So I kind of wish we hadn't seen her face at the end.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 29, 2015)

zoooo said:


> I guess we have to add a couple of years on to the Doctor's age now, then.


No we have to take a few hundred off he's only been alive as long as the episode.

Why didn't he try and punch it?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> It could be a dream/hallucination (although it's more powerful if that's left ambiguous), but even if not, the prison was built for him so the 12 could be intentional.


My main problem isn't the ideas. There are some good ideas. Nor is it the virtual singlehanded nature of the episode - I like Capaldi's acting. Nor the puzzle thing. That can work, too. Baker in the Pyramids of Mars, for example. Nor even the character-exploding nonsense about gazillion years and being reset  molecules from a teleporter (especially if we are allowing that it is all in his head).

No, my problem was that for huge stretches of the episode it was just boring. There was too much empty time in the set up. It could all have been done in ten minutes and been perfectly satisfactory. 

Yes, at the end we get to Gallifrey. But if it can't keep my daughter's attention in the run up to that, then as an episode it failed.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 29, 2015)

I agree with danny la rouge that it had long stretches of dullness.  Which is a shame.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> My main problem isn't the ideas. There are some good ideas. Nor is it the virtual singlehanded nature of the episode - I like Capaldi's acting. Nor the puzzle thing. That can work, too. Baker in the Pyramids of Mars, for example. Nor even the character-exploding nonsense about gazillion years and being reset  molecules from a teleporter (especially if we are allowing that it is all in his head).
> 
> No, my problem was that for huge stretches of the episode it was just boring. There was too much empty time in the set up. It could all have been done in ten minutes and been perfectly satisfactory.
> 
> Yes, at the end we get to Gallifrey. But if it can't keep my daughter's attention in the run up to that, then as an episode it failed.


it was bloody awful. poor peter capaldi.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 29, 2015)

zoooo said:


> I liked that we only saw the back of Clara, that was proper creepy. So I kind of wish we hadn't seen her face at the end.



I agree about that - kind of reminiscent of Sadako in Ring. You don't want her to turn around, and it's disappointingly just-Clara when she does.  

In fact I think danny la rouge is right - lots of the ingredients of a good episode were there and I'd add proper creepy/scary (Clara at the blackboard, the relentless Veil, the skull mountain) potential to his list.  It just all came together in a very stodgy way.  I mentioned Groundhog Day derisively above, but there's something in the light-handed way that film does the time-becomes-a-loop thing that this episode could have learned from.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 29, 2015)

That was all at once a good idea and a shit idea.  Not very clear, but the idea of repeated confession and tiny degrees of diamond breaking absolution, quite religious and all that - that was the good bit.  But there so many questions, not just one's like how does a castle grind away for billions of years with all the equipment still working - one's that should in theory be added to the whole story of the Dr.  For example, did he actually die (repeatedly) and so is the Dr now just a copy that was stored in a machine?


----------



## Wilf (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> My main problem isn't the ideas. There are some good ideas. Nor is it the virtual singlehanded nature of the episode - I like Capaldi's acting. Nor the puzzle thing. That can work, too. Baker in the Pyramids of Mars, for example. Nor even the character-exploding nonsense about gazillion years and being reset  molecules from a teleporter (especially if we are allowing that it is all in his head).
> 
> No, my problem was that for huge stretches of the episode it was just boring. There was too much empty time in the set up. It could all have been done in ten minutes and been perfectly satisfactory.
> 
> Yes, at the end we get to Gallifrey. But if it can't keep my daughter's attention in the run up to that, then as an episode it failed.


On the boring bit, yes!  If the whole thing was about the doc's _confession_, there should have been more drama about it.  Whole thing they seem to have been nagging away at for a while is some big sin/failing (something to do with the time war? Something that will ultimately turn out not to have been a real sin of course).  If that was the case the various smaller sins he ended up admitting to should have been more wrenching, more painful.  But they played out virtually as _strategic _confessions, just saying enough to deflect the grim reaper.  A billion years of confession and soul searching should leave you purged, changed or whatever.  Fucking hell, I'm full of angst about a rant I had on facebook last night!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 29, 2015)

Why didn't "BIRD" get reset?


----------



## stuff_it (Nov 29, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> Why didn't "BIRD" get reset?


Because he was never out of the room long enough to reset it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> Why didn't "BIRD" get reset?


Because Bird Lives.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 29, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> Why didn't "BIRD" get reset?


I guess the rooms don't reset until the Doctor leaves or after each confession. The castle doesn't fall apart because of time lords tech. They thought he'd be there for  while so had to keep it in one piece. They probably expected the Doctor to be there a long time he is possibly immortal after all. Whoever is responsible (and it's not necessarily the Time Lords) possibly still wanted the Doctor alive. That is why he was given an exit. Why the stars were shifting, the skulls not disappearing and the diamond not repairing is not explained but perhaps the reset technology (likely actual time travel) only extends to things within the castle limits. The skulls would remain though eventually begin to disappear at the rate of about one every two and a half days (or however long he was there each time) and the dust dispersed through what could be full size ocean. The castle could be within an entire simulated universe. This would not be beyond Time Lord tech. Flesh pretty quickly becomes dust. Did the Doctor have his rings on? The ones with the super diamond or harder?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

Wilf said:


> one's that should in theory be added to the whole story of the Dr.  For example, did he actually die (repeatedly) and so is the Dr now just a copy that was stored in a machine?


Exactly. And I don't like that. Not one bit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 29, 2015)

seems a bit of a marmite episode, people, lots of 'booorings' from some sectors and yet on morning review, unclouded by green, I still think its the strongest epsisode so far and next weeks looks amazing. Also the doc punched his way through several feet of diamond. Come on, thats quality. I liked that he spent a lot of time basically thinking out loud. Oh and the memory palace Tardis was a good touch.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Exactly. And I don't like that. Not one bit.


the Doctor has used transmat machines plenty in the past. Remember tthe Peter Davidson episodes with the mysteriously amnesiac Lethbridge-Stewart?


----------



## emanymton (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> My main problem isn't the ideas. There are some good ideas. Nor is it the virtual singlehanded nature of the episode - I like Capaldi's acting. Nor the puzzle thing. That can work, too. Baker in the Pyramids of Mars, for example. Nor even the character-exploding nonsense about gazillion years and being reset  molecules from a teleporter (especially if we are allowing that it is all in his head).
> 
> No, my problem was that for huge stretches of the episode it was just boring. There was too much empty time in the set up. It could all have been done in ten minutes and been perfectly satisfactory.
> 
> Yes, at the end we get to Gallifrey. But if it can't keep my daughter's attention in the run up to that, then as an episode it failed.


Still better than the sleep monster episode though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Remember tthe Peter Davidson episodes with the mysteriously amnesiac Lethbridge-Stewart?


A. No. 

B. It's not the machine that bothers me, but that the Doctor is a backup copy. One of countless gazillions the story got through.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 29, 2015)

How many loops until the Doctor was able to figure out a plan? Not much dignity climbing those stairs naked!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Still better than the sleep monster episode though.


The sandman thing? No, this was much worse because it was right up until he got to Gallifrey really, really boring. Had it been any other programme I'd have switched off.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh and the memory palace Tardis was a good touch.


That was perfectly fine. And in character.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> The sandman thing? No, this was much worse because it was right up until he got to Gallifrey really, really boring. Had it been any other programme I'd have switched off.


I actually found it less boring  than that one. With this one I was a least curious to see where it was going. The only reason I didn't turn of the sandman one was that I'm too lazy.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 29, 2015)

I enjoyed the puzzle element of it and didn't think it was particularly slow.

Once again though it seemed to be resolved as "it was all a plot device for the benefit of the audience" rather than having an internal logic for *why* any of it was happening. Like all those "aha, that was my plan all along!" episodes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> A. No.
> 
> B. It's not the machine that bothers me, but that the Doctor is a backup copy. One of countless gazillions the story got through.


oh yeah davidsons outside of octavian knowledge. Well he uses a matter transmitter, a transmat. This machine is the same thing (or near enough), so are the teleporters in star trek. Breaks your body down to atoms, stores the pattern in a buffer, transmits said pattern to destination point. Its an old philosophical musing, is the thing the end point machine re-assembles from a pattern really the same being? Were you transmitted or did you die and then a copy got rebuilt?

I recon it doesn't matter so long as the copy is 100% accurate. To a molecular, dna level accurate.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> oh yeah davidsons outside of octavian knowledge. Well he uses a matter transmitter, a transmat. This machine is the same thing (or near enough), so are the teleporters in star trek. Breaks your body down to atoms, stores the pattern in a buffer, transmits said pattern to destination point. Its an old philosophical musing, is the thing the end point machine re-assembles from a pattern really the same being? Were you transmitted or did you die and then a copy got rebuilt?
> 
> I recon it doesn't matter so long as the copy is 100% accurate. To a molecular, dna level accurate.


In Star Trek we know from Bones' homespun wisdom that the original molecules are sent flying through space and reassembled rather than copied. In fact when the teleporter breaks they're reassembled badly, in a way that it's a blessing they don't live long. 

As for the shop of Theseus paradox, I'm afraid I side with the old planks that are stored and reassembled rather than the repaired ship.


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

If we accept that he used his Time Lord energy to generate the new copy then there is a degree of consistency anyway.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> A. No.
> 
> B. It's not the machine that bothers me, but that the Doctor is a backup copy. One of countless gazillions the story got through.


It's not a back up copy. The room travels back to just before the Doctor entered it. When the Doctor originally materialised it was using as external power source the Doctor provided the energy to initialise the system that was no longer coming from outside. The original Doctor was in the machine.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> In Star Trek we know from Bones' homespun wisdom that the original molecules are sent flying through space and reassembled rather than copied.


thats not how they work in TNG era.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> thats not how they work in TNG era.


That's not Star Trek.


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

You sound like one of those die-hards who insists that Ruddy Yurts only made 15 albums because they discount the electric bassoon years.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 29, 2015)

agree with most of this

Doctor Who Shows Just How Much Hard Work Goes Into The Doctor’s Easy Victories




> All in all, this was a brilliant episode of Doctor Who. Just amazing. I was honestly feeling a bit burned out by this season, with its non-stop two parters, because the pacing felt “off” and I didn’t really care that much about whether Davros had turned over a new leaf, or whether the Doctor could cheat death in the 1980s. But the upside of the slower pacing has been a lot more chances for Peter Capaldi to give layered, electrifying performances. And it turns out that’s more than enough to make for great television.


----------



## stuff_it (Nov 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> You sound like one of those die-hards who insists that Ruddy Yurts only made 15 albums because they discount the electric bassoon years.


Wait, there's an electric bassoon?


----------



## gosub (Nov 29, 2015)

stuff_it said:


> Wait, there's an electric bassoon?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 29, 2015)

Well I just watched the last 3 episodes with my boy, and after only half-watching the previouse episodes (and the whole series to be honest), he leapt out of his seat mouth agape at the end of that one. So did I.

So I say it was a winner!


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 29, 2015)

I was quite irritated and wtf for the first half, but once he started punch-stagger-reset-repeat I LOVED it.  and retrospectively loved the confusing start, too.

He spent 2 billion years punching through a diamond wall, several feet thick.  He rocks.  I love Capaldi.


So, my theory is that he was teleported into a universe that exists inside his confession disc, which may or may not be created by his own psyche.  Do all time lords have their own personal hell inside their confession disc?  

Anyway, the timelords got Maisie the Immortal to teleport him into it.   Why?  Because the time lords are desperate to hear his confession about the hybrid.  And now he's pissed them off because he came the "long way round" - punching through a diamond - rather than, as they expected, confessing about the hybrid.


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2015)

I watched it again and when he makes his speech after realising what's up, he implies that he remembers all his past goes around.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 29, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> Why?  Because the time lords are desperate to hear his confession about the hybrid.  And now he's pissed them off because he came the "long way round" - punching through a diamond - rather than, as they expected, confessing about the hybrid.


Ohhhh. Duh. I don't think I quite realised that bit.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 29, 2015)




----------



## binka (Nov 29, 2015)

im agreeing with DotCommunist that this was a great episode, one of the best of the series. Yes I suppose he could have used the spade to smash down the wall a bit quicker, yes he could have used the spade to cave in the head of the baddy, he probably could have done some fannying around with the teleporter and sent himself back. capaldi is the best doctor ever though (when i mean ever i mean since it came back, i have no interest in the shit old ones made from cardboard)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 30, 2015)

Anyone remember the bit in Iain Banks' The Bridge where there's a prison made of underground towers which rotate into different positions every day so nobody can memorise the layout and plan an escape?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 30, 2015)

Santino said:


> I watched it again and when he makes his speech after realising what's up, he implies that he remembers all his past goes around.



If he remembered them all he wouldn't have kept looking up at the stars and saying 'it looks like I've travelled x years into the future' because he'd know that he hadn't. And the first go round that we see was clearly not the Doctor's first, because all the previous incarnations must have figured out the teleporter thing, and not remembered anything about it when they got cloned again. Also all them skulls.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> If he remembered them all he wouldn't have kept looking up at the stars and saying 'it looks like I've travelled x years into the future' because he'd know that he hadn't.


Could be argued he was playing to the audience, be that whoever put him in there or the televisual one.


----------



## Santino (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> If he remembered them all he wouldn't have kept looking up at the stars and saying 'it looks like I've travelled x years into the future' because he'd know that he hadn't. And the first go round that we see was clearly not the Doctor's first, because all the previous incarnations must have figured out the teleporter thing, and not remembered anything about it when they got cloned again. Also all them skulls.


The realisation came after he had done the looking up at the sky thing.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 30, 2015)

binka said:


> im agreeing with DotCommunist that this was a great episode, one of the best of the series. Yes I suppose he could have used the spade to smash down the wall a bit quicker, yes he could have used the spade to cave in the head of the baddy, he probably could have done some fannying around with the teleporter and sent himself back. capaldi is the best doctor ever though (when i mean ever i mean since it came back, i have no interest in the shit old ones made from cardboard)


If he'd have wanted to go back and it was possible he would of. I don't think he wanted to at least most of the time as he was out for revenge. I don't think he could of reversed the teleporter. Whoever put him there would of known he was good at that sort of thing and made sure it wasn't possible.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 30, 2015)

May Kasahara said:


> I am only a sometime Who watcher but I thought that was bloody great, a stylish evocation of the horrible trap that is grief and guilt. Also enjoyed the echoes of Cube, another divisive piece of entertainment that I rate.



Reminded me of The Cube and Dark City. Still could have done with shaving 10 or 15 minutes off it, though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 30, 2015)

Santino said:


> The realisation came after he had done the looking up at the sky thing.



Yeah he realised the same thing each time, which meant he didn't remember the previous versions of himself. And how could he? They were all freshly minted teleporter copies.


----------



## Santino (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah he realised the same thing each time, which meant he didn't remember the previous versions of himself. And how could he? They were all freshly minted teleporter copies.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 30, 2015)

Meh, he could be talking about anything there.


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 30, 2015)

I also liked it. I always enjoy it when they make it a dark fairy tale though, like the fates of the Family of Blood.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah he realised the same thing each time, which meant he didn't remember the previous versions of himself. And how could he? They were all freshly minted teleporter copies.


Were they definietly copies? I've only watched it once and the music was loud but I got the impression that it was the same Doctor each time. He was effectively stored in the teleporter because time had reset (through actual time travel) to just before he teleported in. The only thing missing was the energy to perform the teleport. The Doctor who materialises is the same Doctor who died but who will experience very slightly different events until the last one who leaves.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 30, 2015)

I think he appeared in the teleporter each time as the same doctor who was teleported from London, ie one who has no idea where he is or what's going on. Hence him leaving clues for himself and all that.

I think there are deliberate ambiguities in it though, like with the drying clothes by the fire. How did the first set of dry clothes get there?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I think there are deliberate ambiguities in it though, like with the drying clothes by the fire. How did the first set of dry clothes get there?


Ambiguities, or questionable writing?


----------



## kabbes (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I think there are deliberate ambiguities in it though, like with the drying clothes by the fire. How did the first set of dry clothes get there?


The most obvious explanation is that in his first run through the castle, when he was figuring it all out (and it must have been the first time or it doesn't work), he came up with the entire plan and set it all up for himself so that he would then cycle through it for the next two billion years. So he dug up that flagstone, wrote on it, buried it in the garden and left his clothes on a rack before going (naked) back to the teleporter room and frying himself.  The fact that in subsequent cycles his skulls ended up in the sea rather than building up in the teleporter room is just the luck of how it played out.

The big unresolved question with that theory, however, is why the rooms with the flagstone, grave and clothes didn't reset each time.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 30, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Ambiguities, or questionable writing?



Because I enjoyed the episode, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and go for option A. 

There was also some questionable writing though.


----------



## Santino (Nov 30, 2015)

kabbes said:


> The most obvious explanation is that in his first run through the castle, when he was figuring it all out (and it must have been the first time or it doesn't work), he came up with the entire plan and set it all up for himself so that he would then cycle through it for the next two billion years. So he dug up that flagstone, wrote on it, buried it in the garden and left his clothes on a rack before going (naked) back to the teleporter room and frying himself.  The fact that in subsequent cycles his skulls ended up in the sea rather than building up in the teleporter room is just the luck of how it played out.
> 
> The big unresolved question with that theory, however, is why the rooms with the flagstone, grave and clothes didn't reset each time.


The flagstone could be part of the trap. Give him some false hope than surprise him with a diamond wall, leading him to despair and confess all.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 30, 2015)

Santino said:


> The flagstone could be part of the trap. Give him some false hope than surprise him with a diamond wall, leading him to despair and confess all.


That is what I thought originally. Part of the trap not the escape. The original could have written it to make things a lot easier on himself. He could of been wondering around naked for weeks opening random doors before he found the potential way out.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 30, 2015)

The clothes are the clue that the original set it up so that his future selves always followed a particular path.  Given that, it seems very likely that the whole flagstone thing was part of his own set-up


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 30, 2015)

kabbes said:


> The clothes are the clue that the original set it up so that his future selves always followed a particular path.  Given that, it seems very likely that the whole flagstone thing was part of his own set-up


Or its probably a lot easier getting away from a monster naked than in wet clothes.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 30, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> Or its probably a lot easier getting away from a monster naked than in wet clothes.


If the rooms always reset (they don't, or several things wouldn't happen), then the clothes were there from the inception of the castle.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 30, 2015)

That room doesn't reset for some reason. Perhaps the lower you go the longer a reset takes or items from elsewhere prevent or delay a reset.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 30, 2015)

if you're being generous, you'd say that the original doctor spent a long time working out exactly what reset and when before laying out the sequence that would always lead him to the diamond wall in the same way with all props in place.  

He is, after all, infinitely clever.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 30, 2015)

kabbes said:


> if you're being generous, you'd say that the original doctor spent a long time working out exactly what reset and when before laying out the sequence that would always lead him to the diamond wall in the same way with all props in place.
> 
> He is, after all, infinitely clever.



Infinite patience would be more useful in this scenario. I don't think I could've been bothered if it was me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2015)

thats why you don't get to be on tele


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 30, 2015)




----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 30, 2015)

Doctor Who Heaven Sent: your questions answered and that tricksy plot explained


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 30, 2015)

Doctor Who Heaven Sent: your questions answered and that tricksy plot explained


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 30, 2015)

Just got to post the link another gazillion times...


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2015)

heres another link, a piece on all of the new writers of the capaldi era. 
Ranking the Writing Debuts of the Capaldi Era


----------



## kabbes (Nov 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> heres another link, a piece on all of the new writers of the capaldi era.
> Ranking the Writing Debuts of the Capaldi Era


That person should be banned from ever commenting on anything ever again.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 30, 2015)

Kill The Moon is not "polarising". It is universally loathed. As is the forest one.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 30, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Kill The Moon is not "polarising". It is universally loathed.


Clara at her most annoying.  And her most annoying is _really fucking annoying._


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 30, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Clara at her most annoying.  And her most annoying is _really fucking annoying._



It's okay, she's dead now.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2015)

kabbes said:


> That person should be banned from ever commenting on anything ever again.


can you believe he/she bigged up the shitty moon one? Interesting that the scriptwriter for claras death episodes is a torchwood vet though. There was some speechifying in that also.


----------



## gosub (Nov 30, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Reminded me of The Cube and Dark City. Still could have done with shaving 10 or 15 minutes off it, though.


10-15 minutes off 2 billion years isn't going to make much difference.

Make the edit to punchy and you lose something from the agony of grief and the passing of an eternity.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anyone remember the bit in Iain Banks' The Bridge where there's a prison made of underground towers which rotate into different positions every day so nobody can memorise the layout and plan an escape?



Isn't that the castle where the game-playing combatants are imprisoned in _Walking On Glass? _The titular bridge is a triumph of non-magical engineering; rather the point.


----------



## joustmaster (Nov 30, 2015)

What was this bit?


----------



## zoooo (Nov 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Doctor Who Heaven Sent: your questions answered and that tricksy plot explained


That was good, that was.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 30, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> What was this bit?
> View attachment 80233



The missing slab is the one that's buried in the garden with the writing on it I think.


----------



## joustmaster (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> The missing slab is the one that's buried in the garden with the writing on it I think.


ah ok. could well be.
although i thought that was a lot bigger.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 30, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Isn't that the castle where the game-playing combatants are imprisoned in _Walking On Glass? _The titular bridge is a triumph of non-magical engineering; rather the point.



Nah there's a bit after he leaves the bridge where he gets locked up in an underground prison, and it's another example of non-magical engineering. I don't remember much about Walking on Glass, except that I didn't like it very much at all. Whereas The Bridge is one of my favourite books.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 30, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Nah there's a bit after he leaves the bridge where he gets locked up in an underground prison, and it's another example of non-magical engineering. I don't remember much about Walking on Glass, except that I didn't like it very much at all. Whereas The Bridge is one of my favourite books.



Sorry, yes. Very short passage. The prison is composed of tumblers: a lock rather than a clock.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 1, 2015)

kabbes said:


> The most obvious explanation is that in his first run through the castle, when he was figuring it all out (and it must have been the first time or it doesn't work), he came up with the entire plan and set it all up for himself so that he would then cycle through it for the next two billion years. So he dug up that flagstone, wrote on it, buried it in the garden and left his clothes on a rack before going (naked) back to the teleporter room and frying himself.  The fact that in subsequent cycles his skulls ended up in the sea rather than building up in the teleporter room is just the luck of how it played out.
> 
> The big unresolved question with that theory, however, is why the rooms with the flagstone, grave and clothes didn't reset each time.


 I think it's because they reset at different intervals, each ring of the castle was moving at a different speeds.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 1, 2015)

ginger_syn said:


> I think it's because they reset at different intervals, each ring of the castle was moving at a different speeds.


 There is a smutty joke in there somewhere about rings and moving at different speeds but I can't quite piece it together.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 1, 2015)

ginger_syn said:


> I think it's because they reset at different intervals, each ring of the castle was moving at a different speeds.


Yeah, could be.

I can't quite figure out the grave though.  Did he refill it each time?


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 1, 2015)

I don't know but will be re-watching later on my new tele so will check


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 1, 2015)

kabbes said:


> I can't quite figure out the grave though.  Did he refill it each time?


I'm still not entirely clear on why he buried the damn thing in the first place. The arrows didn't reset, so surely neither would what he wrote on the buried stone? So why bother going to all the trouble to dig (and possibly refill) the grave?


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2015)

The grave did reset, it was shown back in its original state during the monologue about resetting. The whole arrows and grave thing is (I think) a trap to get the Doctor to give in to despair.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 1, 2015)

So when we first hear about his confession dial back in the episode with the tank guitar silliness, we're told it only opens on his death. And indeed, at the end of last week's ep it's open and then it closes in his hand. So... he did indeed die. A lot. So is he him or is he not? On the one hand, I like it when things question the nature of what it is to be you, to be alive. It's interesting. Is the hard drive copy of his data him, or simply just exactly what it's described as, a copy? Is a copy him? But, while these questions are interesting, they're not actually being asked by the programme. So that's when they start to become annoyances rather than something good. If it's never addressed in some way (and that way can be through subtleties rather than outward addressing in plot) then it's always just hanging there as something we won't talk about because it was useful for that specific plot but we're done with that now.

I like spanglechick's idea about what it was all about - I had a similar idea, but didn't get that "long way round" thing as meaning he didn't confess about the hybrid, but that makes sense. I wondered if perhaps in his search for Gallifrey he realised that when a Time Lord's confession dial opens it spits them out on Gallifrey, last resting place and all that jazz. So he had to get the dial to open, and to do that he had to die, and in the process he had to navigate his dial, and so he set the whole thing up himself. There's already been stuff about wiping memories this season, so I thought he'd wiped his own (he's done it before) so he could go through that process and get to Gallifrey without being in on it and ruining it in some way. But I think spangle's idea makes more sense, unless there will be a big switcheroo at some point.


----------



## 8den (Dec 1, 2015)

What about this video that shows Peter Jackson maybe doing a who episode

Marvellous just what Dr Who needs an overblown tissue thin story dragged out too long with terrible CGI. 

Peter Jackson teases Doctor Who, Lord of the Rings and Walking Dead fans in single video


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2015)

For all we know the real Doctor is trapped outside the universe and the current one is a copy created from Amy's memory after the Pandorica adventure.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 1, 2015)

I've heard it suggested that all the stuff on Karn earlier in the season was actually in the future. Perhaps he wasn't talking about leaving Davros to die when he said he'd been naughty or whatever. Perhaps rather than a memory wipe this could be another bootstrap paradox. The only problem with that is he would be killing Clara in the process.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 1, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Is a copy him?


if it is 100% accurate yes it is. I once read a sci fi short about a man who was sent a video of his wife being tortured, ransom thing. Calls his wife up, she's fine, at work, not a hair on her head harmed. But that copy the kidnappers have is complete. He pays up and they delete the instance. 

if the copy is that good its impossible to tell then it may as well be real imo


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 1, 2015)

Going back a bit but there is that ST:TNG episode(realm of fear?) where Barclay is afraid of the transporters. He appears to be conscious throughout the whole process. This doesn't seem to be the case in Relics though as Scotty is completely unaware that he'd been in the transporter for decades though that was a unique situation.


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2015)

Riker was duplicated by a transporter accident.


----------



## Shirl (Dec 1, 2015)

I haven't watched this series because I didn't think Peter Capaldi was right for the part. I put the tv on on Saturday night just as it was finishing and he put the Ray-Bans on. I might just go back and watch it from the start.


----------



## joustmaster (Dec 1, 2015)

Think Like a Dinosaur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia does a good verison of the transorter duplicate story.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> if it is 100% accurate yes it is. I once read a sci fi short about a man who was sent a video of his wife being tortured, ransom thing. Calls his wife up, she's fine, at work, not a hair on her head harmed. But that copy the kidnappers have is complete. He pays up and they delete the instance.
> 
> if the copy is that good its impossible to tell then it may as well be real imo



I feel the need to dust off some Baudrillard for this one...


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 2, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I feel the need to dust off some Baudrillard for this one...


Resist the urge.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2015)

:/


----------



## Santino (Dec 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> :/



 For me this ranks above the David Tennant episode about being stuck in a traffic jam.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2015)

I really liked the traffic jam one


----------



## zoooo (Dec 2, 2015)

That had kittens! How can anyone not like David Tennant with kittens.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 2, 2015)

Ardal O'Hanlon as a giant cat ftw.


----------



## 8den (Dec 2, 2015)

There are many episodes worse than the traffic jam one. The matt smith singing one with the hover bike


----------



## Gromit (Dec 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> :/



How much more proof do we need that the BBC are a vehicle for lies and propaganda?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 2, 2015)

8den said:


> There are many episodes worse than the traffic jam one. The matt smith singing one with the hover bike


I'd blanked that out


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2015)

why did they CGI Capaldi, Dot and the others? The could have sueged into real actors and a man dressed as a sprout


----------



## 8den (Dec 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> why did they CGI Capaldi, Dot and the others? The could have sueged into real actors and a man dressed as a sprout



Cause a CGI Dot Cotton looks more realistic than the actual Dot Cotton right now. 

FFS it's a BBC Christmas Cartoon don't over think it DOTC.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> why did they CGI Capaldi, Dot and the others? The could have sueged into real actors and a man dressed as a sprout



Because someone, somewhere (even though it's festive nonsense concerning a winter vegetable) would have tried to fit it into canon. Colcanon.


----------



## 8den (Dec 2, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I'd blanked that out



I literally remember nothing about that episode aside from Matt Smith poncing about on Flash Gordon's hover bike.


----------



## 8den (Dec 2, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Because someone, somewhere (even though it's festive nonsense concerning a winter vegetable) would have tried to fit it into canon. Colcanon.



He has a point the doctor had turned up in Albert Sq during a awful children in need one year.


----------



## Santino (Dec 2, 2015)

8den said:


> He has a point the doctor had turned up in Albert Sq during a awful children in need one year.


 Time War


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2015)

that was fucking awful. The cast of eastenders in full naff 80s finery



^^ shit like that is why it took so long to get Who back on the air


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2015)

pertwee somehow escapes with his dignity intact but the rest of them should be ashamed of themselves


----------



## Chz (Dec 2, 2015)

JNT has a lot to answer for.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 2, 2015)

Curse of the Fatal Death was the way to do it. Kudos to Moffat, Atkinson et al.


----------



## 8den (Dec 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> that was fucking awful. The cast of eastenders in full naff 80s finery
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ shit like that is why it took so long to get Who back on the air




Why the fuck did you have to link to it. It's like someone in the BBC saw the Star Wars holiday special and thought "challenge accepted".


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 2, 2015)

I rather enjoyed it at the time  I was _nine_...


----------



## 8115 (Dec 5, 2015)

Who's that lady?


----------



## binka (Dec 5, 2015)

well that was mostly really dull


----------



## zoooo (Dec 5, 2015)

I fucking loved that episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 5, 2015)

american diner tardis lol


----------



## binka (Dec 5, 2015)

why does he get so upset about clara? he never used to get like that about companions did he?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 5, 2015)

that'll be three episodes where clara has been fake died now.


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 5, 2015)

All the things that people who hated last week said about that, I thought about this. Kind of an interminable boring overly complex whilst being uninteresting dirge. Not great. I hope that the Christmas special manages to be the right sort of panto.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 5, 2015)

so apparently a standard tardis looks on the outside like one of them 30p bogs you get on the high street because the council closed all the public pissers. And on the inside it like a tesco values interior although the roundels and general whiteness reminded me of davidson era tardis interior


----------



## zoooo (Dec 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> although the roundels and general whiteness reminded me of davidson era tardis interior


Me too. That's my favourite Tardis interior. Wish they'd put it in the proper Tardis.


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 5, 2015)

binka said:


> why does he get so upset about clara? he never used to get like that about companions did he?



Right. I could've bought maybe a year or two, but 4 and a half billion?


----------



## 8115 (Dec 5, 2015)

But companions don't die, in my recollection. He talked about his "duty of care". I think it's that sense of responsibility as much as Clara being special to him, which she undoubtedly is too.


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 5, 2015)

That was just no _fun_.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 5, 2015)

Fuck it. Enjoyed the episode where Clara died but that has now been pissed on. Why did Rassilon's regeneration turn him into such a wuss?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 5, 2015)

8115 said:


> Who's that lady?


Your mum. 

Or maybe his. 

Or ex girlfriend.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 5, 2015)

binka said:


> why does he get so upset about clara? he never used to get like that about companions did he?



Allegedly because Missy found the exact companion that would press all his buttons. One so like him that she would try to be like him to her ultimate demise.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 5, 2015)

How long is it since you've seen me?

(Remains quiet so that the big 4.5 million years hangs over everyone)

Actually as far as his copy is concerned ain't it been about a week?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 5, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Remember how long Tennant's Doctor took to die? I think I went to make a cup of tea, came back and he was still dying. Then I went and made a beef wellington from scratch, came back and he was _still_ fucking dying
> :


I hope you haven't been making a beef Wellington for Clara's death. It will be a bit smelly if you started it three weeks ago. 

Is she dead yet?

As far as I can tell she's stiiiiiiiillllllllll dying even now. Might not even be dead by Christmas.


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 5, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I hope you haven't been making a beef Wellington for Clara's death. It will be a bit smelly if you started it three weeks ago.
> 
> Is she dead yet?
> 
> As far as I can tell she's stiiiiiiiillllllllll dying even now. Might not even be dead by Christmas.



I think we can be fairly certain she wont be...


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 5, 2015)

Screwdriver though. Thank fuck for that at least.


----------



## 8den (Dec 5, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> I rather enjoyed it at the time  I was _nine_...



That is not an excuse...


----------



## 8den (Dec 5, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> I rather enjoyed it at the time  I was _nine_...



That is not an excuse...


----------



## gosub (Dec 5, 2015)

On the plus side he got his sonic screwdriver back, on the down it defied it's own logic : either  Clark gas to die to prevent the self forefilling prophecy the time Lords set up  (and I thought they were supposed to be bright) or Clara can stay with the Dr.


----------



## Santino (Dec 5, 2015)

binka said:


> why does he get so upset about clara? he never used to get like that about companions did he?


Even before the Confession Dial he had known her for centuries.


----------



## binka (Dec 5, 2015)

Santino said:


> Even before the Confession Dial he had known her for centuries.


according to imdb she's only been in 39 episodes


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 5, 2015)

binka said:


> according to imdb she's only been in 39 episodes


He'd still known her for centuries and that doesn't even need to include all the doubles or her hassling John Hurt.


----------



## binka (Dec 5, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> He'd still known her for centuries and that doesn't even need to include all the doubles or her hassling John Hurt.


centuries? hasn't she only been on the show for 3 years?


----------



## Pingu (Dec 5, 2015)

well... that was shit. important from a storyline pov but as boring as fuck


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> that'll be three episodes where clara has been fake died now.


I said that, didn't I?  That's what I hate about this kind of writing.  You can't put your trust in anything because you know the writer is going to cheat you. Not cleverly trick you with a plot twist, but change the parameters in a way that makes a mockery of your investment in the world of the story. They think it's clever but it isn't. It's the worst kind of "then she woke up" bollocks. It's Bobby Ewing in the shower. 

That said, I liked a lot about this. It make no sense. It was a huge mess. But it was entertaining. And I liked the idea of rogue Clara and Me roaming time and space in a stolen Tardis. I liked the default settings of their Tardis. I liked the shiny tube outer shell looking like the one they had Hartnell steal. I liked the fact the chameleon circuit broke the first time they used it. It's great that Tardises have that design fault. I liked the fact that the factory setting interior is so 60s. I'm glad the screwdriver is back: does that mean the glasses are gone? 

But 4.5 billion years? Give us a break. And the hybrid theories? Again, don't build something up then just fritter it away like that. It was rubbish: "Maybe it's this maybe it's that. Och well, never mind."  So, just the stuff from the Radio Times article but no actual resolution. Cheers. 

Anyway, it at least didn't drag like the first 40 billion years of last week's episode.


----------



## binka (Dec 5, 2015)

sometimes i think they just make it up as they go along


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 6, 2015)

I enjoyed it,but will be doing a rewatch tomorrow as I had the three grandkids watching it with me, one of whom is two so missed some of the finer points. The older two have already added the new sonic to their Christmas list and I must say it looks snazzy, also a definite thumbs up for the music it was beautiful


----------



## Gromit (Dec 6, 2015)

Is she dead yet?


----------



## innit (Dec 6, 2015)

I thought it made a fun change of pace from the 10,000 daleks/cybermen style series finale. I didn't think it made a lot of sense but I liked the diner tardis and Maisie at the end of the universe.


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2015)

binka said:


> centuries? hasn't she only been on the show for 3 years?


It's not EastEnders.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 6, 2015)

Santino said:


> It's not EastEnders.


Or is it? 

Doof doof


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 6, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Or is it?
> 
> Doof doof


Don't or someone will post Dimensions in Time again.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 6, 2015)

Whatever happened to the guy they gave the other Ashilda immortality device to?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 6, 2015)

They left it to be determined whether the gubbins' power was used up stopping Aslan's evil plan and resurrecting Swift, immortality not a given.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 6, 2015)

binka said:


> why does he get so upset about clara? he never used to get like that about companions did he?


 Yeah I want to see more Sarah Jane style exits, abruptly being told youre being dropped off in Croydon, but actually Scotland.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 6, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah I want to see more Sarah Jane style exits, abruptly being told youre being dropped off in Croydon, but actually Scotland.



I'd certainly like to see a companion he gives less of a shit about and who is not a force for good. Turlough remains the high point for me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 6, 2015)

didn't he spend the entirety of the search for the bits  of the time key (whatever) in his school uniform? what a nob.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 6, 2015)

so, are we getting an isildur & clara spin off series? in the time slot of torchwood?


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> didn't he spend the entirety of the search for the bits  of the time key (whatever) in his school uniform? what a nob.


You're not getting away with it just because you put whatever in brackets. You're confusing you Black Guardian stories but yes he did.


----------



## binka (Dec 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> so, are we getting an isildur & clara spin off series? in the time slot of torchwood?


Swap clara for the hound and im in


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 6, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I'd certainly like to see a companion he gives less of a shit about and who is not a force for good. Turlough remains the high point for me.



I was thinking just that. Enough with the lingering eye contact.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 6, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Whatever happened to the guy they gave the other Ashilda immortality device to?


Connor Macleod cut his head off.


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2015)

Ashildr must still have had to be careful to stay alive. The technology healed her body but she wasn't indestructible.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 6, 2015)

Santino said:


> Ashildr must still have had to be careful to stay alive. The technology healed her body but she wasn't indestructible.


surely that just means avoid being blown up, dissected or in some way dismembered. Shots and stabs she heals, or rather the ill-defined magic technology heals her


----------



## Gromit (Dec 6, 2015)

Santino said:


> Ashildr must still have had to be careful to stay alive. The technology healed her body but she wasn't indestructible.


He probably upset the wrong people by stealing from them and they took great pains to discover how to kill him. Trying different things till it took.


----------



## zoooo (Dec 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> didn't he spend the entirety of the search for the bits  of the time key (whatever) in his school uniform? what a nob.


I know I'm an absolute weirdo, but that made him quite sexy.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 6, 2015)




----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 6, 2015)

so, as christmas is upon us and its time for the season review, what have we for strongest and weakest eps?

I'm still having groundhog day diamond punching episode for best although I tip my hat to the missy eps cos they were OK. Monsters made out of eye bogies was for me the weakest, it was a mess.

I might have ranked the quantum crow of death episode more if it had been final and they hadn't ressurected clara for the last episode. Milking it thrice now. Four if you count old Clara dream thingy from last season.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 6, 2015)

I can't help but wonder how much easier The Doctor's life would be if he hadn't forgotten about the invisibility watch from The Caretaker episode.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Dec 6, 2015)

Awful beginning and The Doctor is starting to sound like a 3 year old when he has these "NO! I CAN DO THIS! I DESERVE IT!" moments, especially in regards to companions leaving.

The last third was good, though honestly Maisie Williams still can't act, could see she did her best this time around.


----------



## Cid (Dec 6, 2015)

Fucking hell. For once just let go. Just fucking acknowledge that people lose things, that death happens.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 6, 2015)

Restaurant at the end of the universe, geddit?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 6, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Restaurant at the end of the universe, geddit?


hhgttg?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 6, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> That was just no _fun_.



Not really no. Classic Tardis interior was the only good bit really. I was expecting something to come from the whole hybrid/Gallifrey thing but they gave up on that and we got loads more nonsensical schmaltz instead 

Clara accepted her own death, and it was clearly important that the Doctor came to accept it as well, but still she ended up not dying AGAIN


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 7, 2015)

8115 said:


> But companions don't die, in my recollection. He talked about his "duty of care". I think it's that sense of responsibility as much as Clara being special to him, which she undoubtedly is too.



Sara Kingdom, Adric


----------



## belboid (Dec 7, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Sara Kingdom, Adric


Katarina too


----------



## belboid (Dec 7, 2015)

I quite enjoyed both of those two episodes, maybe it helped watching them both together.

The first took its tie to get going, and I couldn't get into it for the first quarter of an hour or so, but then, I dunno, something clicked and it worked very well. The story made perfect sense, nicely went a step further with the Doctor waiting even longer than Rory did - even if it only ever felt like a week or so for the actual Doctor.  And, we do see his amazingly hard ring on his punching hand as he crawled up the stairs, so it does make absolute sense that he could hit his way though such an incredibly hard substance. Neatly done.

And then back to Gallifrey, which didn't have Timothy Dalton in it, and thus was ace. Nicely imagined, Clare Higgins was fun, the story made sense, what more could you ask for? Having the Doc forget Clara rater than the other way round was a nice touch, and very well done. Flashbacks used properly too.  A fine ending to the series.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> I quite enjoyed both of those two episodes, maybe it helped watching them both together.
> 
> The first took its tie to get going, and I couldn't get into it for the first quarter of an hour or so, but then, I dunno, something clicked and it worked very well. The story made perfect sense, nicely went a step further with the Doctor waiting even longer than Rory did - even if it only ever felt like a week or so for the actual Doctor.  And, we do see his amazingly hard ring on his punching hand as he crawled up the stairs, so it does make absolute sense that he could hit his way though such an incredibly hard substance. Neatly done.
> 
> And then back to Gallifrey, which didn't have Timothy Dalton in it, and thus was ace. Nicely imagined, Clare Higgins was fun, the story made sense, what more could you ask for? Having the Doc forget Clara rater than the other way round was a nice touch, and very well done. Flashbacks used properly too.  A fine ending to the series.



Was the lord president Rassilon?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> Having the Doc forget Clara rather than the other way round was a nice touch, and very well done.



Making Clara forget achieves nothing. The doctor is the one with the power to destroy the universe by saving Clara... allegedly. 

Though it's still half baked as to why he can turn up, stop a war where hundreds would have died and time can manage that. But certain other fixed points in time would rip it apart.


----------



## belboid (Dec 7, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Was the lord president Rassilon?


I think he/they said so, yes


----------



## belboid (Dec 7, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Making Clara forget achieves nothing. The doctor is the one with the power to destroy the universe by saving Clara... allegedly.
> 
> Though it's still half baked as to why he can turn up, stop a war where hundreds would have died and time can manage that. But certain other fixed points in time would rip it apart.


that's just how the cookie crumbles, some shit is more important than others


----------



## Epona (Dec 8, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> Sara Kingdom, Adric



Aye, it doesn't happen frequently, but companions have died.  I couldn't stand Adric tbh, but when he died it was final, they rolled the end credits without music, all taken quite seriously.  Wish they'd go back to doing that sort of thing when a companion dies rather than keep bloody resurrecting them somehow - it's getting stupid.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2015)

Epona said:


> Aye, it doesn't happen frequently, but companions have died.  I couldn't stand Adric tbh, but when he died it was final, they rolled the end credits without music, all taken quite seriously.  Wish they'd go back to doing that sort of thing when a companion dies rather than keep bloody resurrecting them somehow - it's getting stupid.


yeh but adric has the misfortune to be a companion before diana and 9/11, and so 'lived' in a less sentimental world.


----------



## belboid (Dec 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but adric has the misfortune to be a companion before diana and 9/11, and so 'lived' in a less sentimental world.


Moffat would have been a sentimentalist tosspot whether those events happened or not.


----------



## 8den (Dec 16, 2015)

Jesus shitting Christ Cecila Ahern has written a doctor who novel. 

Ahern is the daughter of Bertie Ahern the corrupt as fuck Taoiseach who ran the country into the ground a decade ago. Ahern writes fucking dire chick lit like "PS I Love You"

Her Doctor Who novel is called "the bog monster" and set on planet "Cashel" CASHEL for fucks sake 

Doctor Who


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2015)

to be televised as 'Doctor Who vs the Clagnuts'?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 16, 2015)

While I'm grumpy he couldn't just let Clara die (honestly I'm not surprised) it wasn't as bad, not nearly as bad, as the Ponds getting an entire half fucking series for their long goodbye. Fuck the Ponds.


----------



## Sea Star (Dec 16, 2015)

belboid said:


> Moffat would have been a sentimentalist tosspot whether those events happened or not.


but he might not have been allowed to write Dr Who...


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2015)

Not as good as last years, not as dire as some years. Everyone else fell asleep and ma went to poke at food and that in the kitchen So I only had to explain things to myself in my internal monolouge. That head was him out of Inbetweeners and the body is a god damned Adeptus Astartes Blood Marine. That initial shot of the downed thing was so warhammer 40k I nearly mentioned it but the others don't know warhammer and were in any case sparko from a big meal and a confusing time travel plot that makes vague sense if you followed the matt smith years and realise the time difference thing. And give a shit which they don't.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 25, 2015)

It had a very tremendous "It's bigger on the inside!" scene.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 25, 2015)

I'm halfway thru. Bit bored. But still crushing so hard on River


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Dec 25, 2015)

For once a special that all of my assorted family peeps sat down together to watch and all enjoyed but Dotty's right, that was deffo a space marine - if not terminator armour [/]metageek[/}


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 25, 2015)

Thought it was a bit rubbish tbh


----------



## Santino (Dec 25, 2015)

Ok, but insufficiently Christmassy. I like it when the day is saved by the tears of an orphan or something.


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 25, 2015)

I rather liked that (assuming it's a River Swan-song).  

It was daft and kid friendly to start with, although it got a bit relationship-y at the end... 

River was at her finest against Capaldi.  A real foil for her affections: I could believe her abiding love for him in a way I never could for Smith.  The dialogue rattled back and forth like a 1940s screwball comedy.   Fabulous.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> I rather liked that (assuming it's a River Swan-song).
> 
> It was daft and kid friendly to start with, although it got a bit relationship-y at the end...
> 
> River was at her finest against Capaldi.  A real foil for her affections: I could believe her abiding love for him in a way I never could for Smith.  The dialogue rattled back and forth like a 1940s screwball comedy.   Fabulous.


the bonnie and clyde moment where they both talk about immediate exits


----------



## 8den (Dec 25, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Not as good as last years, not as dire as some years. Everyone else fell asleep and ma went to poke at food and that in the kitchen So I only had to explain things to myself in my internal monolouge. That head was him out of Inbetweeners and the body is a god damned Adeptus Astartes Blood Marine. That initial shot of the downed thing was so warhammer 40k I nearly mentioned it but the others don't know warhammer and were in any case sparko from a big meal and a confusing time travel plot that makes vague sense if you followed the matt smith years and realise the time difference thing. And give a shit which they don't.



Last year was the nick frost shit one? Considering I've hated this series and detest how Moffat has over used River should I skip it? 



Mind you I am lusting after the doctor who Lego set. A mere €70


----------



## Gromit (Dec 25, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> It had a very tremendous "It's bigger on the inside!" scene.


The only redeeming feature but even that was spoiled a bit by him explaining to us about it being done properly for once. Pushed it just little bit too far into really egotistical.


----------



## Pingu (Dec 25, 2015)

was ok i guess (40k space marine gubbins excepted) but it was no katherine jenkins episode quality


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 26, 2015)

Just finished a rewatch, in my opinion the best Christmas who so far and I will be watching silence in the library /forest of the Dead as soon as I've made a coffee


----------



## 8den (Dec 26, 2015)

Pseudopsycho said:


> For once a special that all of my assorted family peeps sat down together to watch and all enjoyed but Dotty's right, that was deffo a space marine - if not terminator armour [/]metageek[/}



Space marines don't have wings. It was more like a Gundam. 

Games workshop don't have the monopoly on power armour.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2015)

8den said:


> Space marines don't have wings


----------



## 8den (Dec 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


>



Fine space marines USUALLY don't have wings; but games workshop spotting a niche in the market came out with winged space marines and will charge you £78 quid for three and insist they can only be played in platoons of 15 marines.


Gundam are older than space marines and have those fold out jet wings.


Anyway I quite liked it. I didn't understand how river thought the doctor didn't love her.


----------



## timeforanother (Dec 26, 2015)

I liked Greg Davies, and the Dr starting the restaurant was cool. When's the next series?


----------



## cesare (Dec 26, 2015)

I liked "thief with patience" 

I missed some of it but this was the first time in years that I saw some of it on Christmas Day. It was the only thing worth watching during the entire day - I had no idea how SHIT Christmas TV has become, it's fucking dire.

There are loads of people on their own that would appreciate some decent TV over Christmas and they can't have it (and I'm ashamed that I didn't realise until today). You Tube was more entertaining and much nicer. Death knell of TV just like death knell of printed newspapers. They only have themselves to blame, the lazy fuckers.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 26, 2015)

I quite like this article.


----------



## cesare (Dec 26, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I quite like this article.


Whatever the faults with the River Song development/theme the character still makes Rey look like some bloke tried to make Barbie into Action Man.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 26, 2015)

Opps... wrong thread


----------



## timeforanother (Dec 26, 2015)

Bring back Ace. Someone like her.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 26, 2015)

or someone not like her in any way


----------



## kabbes (Dec 26, 2015)

Meh.  It had some nice dialogue and good moments but these were wrapped in an hour of pretty mundane nonsense.  No sense of excitement or jeopardy.


----------



## Pingu (Dec 26, 2015)

sheldon for companion...


----------



## 8den (Dec 26, 2015)

Pingu said:


> sheldon for companion...



Don't even fucking joke. You know Moffat nicks fan ideas


----------



## Cloo (Dec 26, 2015)

I liked it a lot. I agree she worked especially well with Capaldi.

Another one who liked his 'doing it properly', but also 'he's never noticed before'.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 26, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Meh.  It had some nice dialogue and good moments but these were wrapped in an hour of pretty mundane nonsense.  No sense of excitement or jeopardy.


My thoughts exactly.

They are wasting my favourite doctor.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 26, 2015)

Cloo said:


> Another one who liked his 'doing it properly', but also 'he's never noticed before'.



I liked that River had installed a mini-bar in the console room.


----------



## gosub (Dec 26, 2015)

Pingu said:


> sheldon for companion...


so an hour of argument about the impossibility of the show and how 'timey wimey' isn't a thing.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 26, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I quite like this article.


Whine whine whine Doctor Who is all centered around The Doctor. Well duh it's called Doctor Who. 

Nice point that don't people think when he's not around it's not all about him but obviously when he's there it will be. 

That bloody Hamlet play is all about Hamlet. Why isn't it about someone else?


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 26, 2015)

I liked it. It was funny, had good dialogue and the relationship between River and the Doctor was finally believable. The episode went off the boil towards the end, but I'm going to let them off with that because it was generally very good. 

Well done.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked it. It was funny, had good dialogue and the relationship between River and the Doctor was finally believable. The episode went off the boil towards the end, but I'm going to let them off with that because it was generally very good.
> 
> Well done.


noticed it with specials, sesaon finales and just sometimes for the sake of it. Moffat drags the last 20 mins into 'lets milk the melodrama cow dry'

in fact thats claras three non deaths all over. And Mr Pinks speechifying. Then coming back from the dead sort of and still preaching, wtf


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 26, 2015)

Can someone explain why that was their last night/the end for them? What did I miss


----------



## 8den (Dec 26, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Can someone explain why that was their last night/the end for them? What did I miss



In "quiet in the library" River told him that the last time he saw her he took her there and gave her a sonic screwdriver.


----------



## gosub (Dec 27, 2015)

enjoyed watching them again: 



8den said:


> In "quiet in the library" River told him that the last time he saw her he took her there and gave her a sonic screwdriver.


   Is in the tail end of Forest of the Dead


----------



## kabbes (Dec 27, 2015)

Watching them again reminds me how much better Tennant was than everybody else at the part.

ETA: And Catherine Tate.  Those episodes contain some of the best Doctor's assistant moments in all the show.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 28, 2015)

I have to emphatically disagree with the poster above as no one was better than Pertwee  ,Tate was excellent in those episodes and for me is high on the list of best companions ever.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 4, 2016)

That was fucking shit. In fact it was so shit that I struggled to keep watching it, and even considered turning it off.  I don't know what's with Doctor Who.  One minute they're putting out excellent stories like Under the Lake/Before the Flood, and the next they're putting out shit like that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2016)

BBC America have decided to start a social media commentary for each episode now so rather than watching in respectful silence you can read the opinions of Star_LordxXx from Illinois on his sixth tin of coors


----------



## 8den (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> BBC America have decided to start a social media commentary for each episode now so rather than watching in respectful silence you can read the opinions of Star_LordxXx from Illinois on his sixth tin of coors



Christ if I wanted to know stupid people's opinion I'd read the comments sections on youtube videos.


----------



## gosub (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> BBC America have decided to start a social media commentary for each episode now so rather than watching in respectful silence you can read the opinions of Star_LordxXx from Illinois on his sixth tin of coors


worst idea. ever!


----------



## ginger_syn (Jan 6, 2016)

It shouldn't affect me as I only internet on urban


----------



## 8den (Jan 6, 2016)

ginger_syn said:


> I only internet on urban



Is crying out for a t shirt.


----------



## 8den (Jan 11, 2016)

I bought this in the sales


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 11, 2016)

that retailed at 60 usd, what did you get it for?!


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2016)

8den said:


> I bought this in the sales


Genuine question: now you have it, what are you going to do with it?  Build it, and then what?


----------



## 8den (Jan 11, 2016)

kabbes said:


> Genuine question: now you have it, what are you going to do with it?  Build it, and then what?



Hid it from my kid. Duh.


----------



## 8den (Jan 11, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> that retailed at 60 usd, what did you get it for?!


40e


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 11, 2016)

8den said:


> 40e


a bargain


----------



## 8den (Jan 11, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> a bargain



I know it's idiotic but it was my Christmas present to me after a rubbish Christmas. 

Cmon Lego Daleks dude


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 11, 2016)

well I did spend 80 quid sterlng on the seal of rassilon tatoo so I suppose people in glass houses etc


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 11, 2016)

Lego was made for daleks, wasn't it?

Brilliant.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 12, 2016)

kabbes said:


> Genuine question: now you have it, what are you going to do with it?  Build it, and then what?



Play with it when bored? I mean really what else do you do with it?

*makes plunger/Tardis sound effects*

Pew Pew "Clara, we must reverse the polarity!" Pew Pew


----------



## kabbes (Jan 12, 2016)

Artaxerxes said:


> Play with it when bored? I mean really what else do you do with it?
> 
> *makes plunger/Tardis sound effects*
> 
> Pew Pew "Clara, we must reverse the polarity!" Pew Pew


Well, er, good for you dude.  Enjoy.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 12, 2016)

Artaxerxes said:


> Play with it when bored? I mean really what else do you do with it?
> 
> *makes plunger/Tardis sound effects*
> 
> Pew Pew "Clara, we must reverse the polarity!" Pew Pew



Some Doctor who nerd should be along shortly to explain how Pew Pew is  an inappropriate noise to make.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 12, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Some Doctor who nerd should be along shortly to explain how Pew Pew is  an inappropriate noise to make.



It depends entirely on his opponents


----------



## Gromit (Jan 12, 2016)

Artaxerxes said:


> It depends entirely on his opponents



How often do his opponents get inside the Tardis. i can only think of a couple and none of em had laazoors


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 12, 2016)

Gromit said:


> How often do his opponents get inside the Tardis. i can only think of a couple and none of em had laazoors



*throws toys out of pram*

ITS MY LEGO DAMMIT


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 12, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> well I did spend 80 quid sterlng on the seal of rassilon tatoo so I suppose people in glass houses etc


Pics then 

DotCommunist


----------



## gosub (Jan 12, 2016)

Gromit said:


> How often do his opponents get inside the Tardis. i can only think of a couple and none of em had laazoors


----------



## 8den (Jan 12, 2016)




----------



## Gromit (Jan 12, 2016)

gosub said:


>




Nice try but that isn't one of the eight acknowledged Doctors recognized by my religion and so it never happened.


----------



## gosub (Jan 12, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Nice try but that isn't one of the eight acknowledged Doctors recognized by my religion and so it never happened.


 So how did the dinosaurs die out?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 12, 2016)

S☼I said:


> Pics then
> 
> DotCommunist



next ones either a B&W LOTR style one ring with the serenity prayer written in sindarin on it (I know the rings words are written in the speech of mordor but no, just no) or a B&W Harley Quinn, 90s cartoon DC style


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 12, 2016)

Fab!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 22, 2016)

Moffat quitting, only a Christmas special in 2016

Doctor Who showrunner Steven Moffat quits to be replaced by Broadchurch creator Chris Chibnall


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

DAMN YOU I just came here to post that.



But also... :gleeful grin:


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 22, 2016)

Heh, sorry. Not gonna lie, a little smug to get the u75 scoop


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 22, 2016)

Lord Camomile said:


> Moffat quitting, only a Christmas special in 2016
> 
> Doctor Who showrunner Steven Moffat quits to be replaced by Broadchurch creator Chris Chibnall


About fucking timey wimey!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

If no one reads the link though, a Christmas special in 2016, and he'll be doing S10 in 2017, and that dude will take over in 2018, so we're not quite rid of him yet.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 22, 2016)

At least two seasons too long...

Just an Xmas special next year, no doubt because Steven's so terribly busy making 3 episodes of Sherlock with his mate Gatiss.
Capaldi seemed very up for a full season in 2016 at the WhoFest in November.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

He wants all that time to plan his magnum opus, to make it as canon-shaking as possible, no doubt. Imprint himself on the edifice of Who for all eternity in some grand spectacle.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 22, 2016)

"2016 is spoilt with national moments including the Euros and Olympics and I want to hold something big back for 2017 - I promise it will be worth the wait!"

What? That doesn't even make sense. If they're going to lie, they should at least make it make sense.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 22, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> Just an Xmas special next year, no doubt because Steven's so terribly busy making 3 episodes of Sherlock with his mate Gatiss.
> Capaldi seemed very up for a full season in 2016 at the WhoFest in November.



The next series will film in 2016 if it's being broadcast spring 2017.

But Chris "Cyberwoman" Chibnall though? Hmmmm.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

Part of why I don't like him is his massive ego. Yes, Who is a national institution. When big things happen in it, for fans and cultural history at least it could be described as a 'national moment.' But what ego on the man to actually say it out loud. You let other people say things like that about you. You don't go about saying "I'm amazing, the nation should be proud of me, I will make a massive impact because I'm fucking great."



There's another part of me that is hoping this big event will be the doctor regenerating into a woman. He's been ever so slightly less awful this past series regarding his gender stuff. Even cast a trans actor.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Part of why I don't like him is his massive ego. Yes, Who is a national institution. When big things happen in it, for fans and cultural history at least it could be described as a 'national moment.' But what ego on the man to actually say it out loud. You let other people say things like that about you. You don't go about saying "I'm amazing, the nation should be proud of me, I will make a massive impact because I'm fucking great."



Where did he say that? It looks like that sort of language in the re-packaged press release that Radio Times published is credited to Charlotte Moore.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

Oh yes, it was her wot said it. Sorry.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

I still don't like his ego.


----------



## 8den (Jan 22, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> "2016 is spoilt with national moments including the Euros and Olympics and I want to hold something big back for 2017 - I promise it will be worth the wait!"
> 
> What? That doesn't even make sense. If they're going to lie, they should at least make it make sense.



Yeah he does understand we can handle Who, the Euros and The Olympics. 
Fucking ego. 

God his swan song is going to make Davis' positively restrained.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

8den said:


> God his swan song is going to make Davis' positively restrained.



The Ponds getting an entire half series just to say goodbye was worse than any dramatics Davis did with Tennant.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> The Ponds getting an entire half series just to say goodbye was worse than any dramatics Davis did with Tennant.



Worse than the walking, talking David-Tennant-shaped dildo that Rose got as consolation prize the second time RTD wrote her out


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Worse than the walking, talking David-Tennant-shaped dildo that Rose got as consolation prize the second time RTD wrote her out



That was shocking. But it doesn't come close to the clusterfuck that was Amy Pond in general, or their final half-season.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 22, 2016)

the moffs off, thank god , although Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi have grown on me , the last few years have been shit, and its not the actors fault.

although i did enjoy the 50th

and missy


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 23, 2016)

bastards, a whole year without


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 23, 2016)

Regardless of the self-indulgent excess of RTD's ending, it felt ok on one level because he and Tennant had taken the show to an all-time (certainly for new who) high.  It gave us the surprise of a post script to the Jessica Hynes story (just thinking about that dark fairy tale makes me sad about how far who has fallen), and gave us a little feel good spin on wonderful Donna's painfully, understatedly tragic ending.  

Moffat is going to give us another bullshit portentous story arc which will ultimately have fuck all payoff.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 23, 2016)

Sorry to belabour the point, but thinking about "The Family of Blood" (notwithstanding Martha) has made me so angry with Moffatt.  How dare he take the show and turn it into something so mediocre.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 23, 2016)

I'll never forgive him for that fucking lion-o episode.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 23, 2016)

Oh, and RTDs ending was all about Wilf.  Glorious onscreen pairing, him and Tennant.  Proper chemistry.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 23, 2016)

*Takes off Rose-tinted spectacles*

*Remembers woman condemned to live as a paving-slab fleshlight*


----------



## 8den (Jan 23, 2016)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> *Takes off Rose-tinted spectacles*
> 
> *Remembers woman condemned to live as a paving-slab fleshlight*


 I'd almost prefer a lifetime on Peter Kay's left buttock.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 23, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Part of why I don't like him is his massive ego. Yes, Who is a national institution. When big things happen in it, for fans and cultural history at least it could be described as a 'national moment.' But what ego on the man to actually say it out loud. You let other people say things like that about you. You don't go about saying "I'm amazing, the nation should be proud of me, I will make a massive impact because I'm fucking great."
> 
> 
> 
> There's another part of me that is hoping this big event will be the doctor regenerating into a woman. He's been ever so slightly less awful this past series regarding his gender stuff. Even cast a trans actor.


Hopefully it won't. I'd like to see Capaldi with a decent showrunner first.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 23, 2016)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> *Takes off Rose-tinted spectacles*
> 
> *Remembers woman condemned to live as a paving-slab fleshlight*


Possibly forever. Also a good possibility that when matey dies she'll end up lost down the back of the sofa or somewhere.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 23, 2016)

face of bo and her should have had a spin off series


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jan 23, 2016)

Part of me is quite glad that it's taking a year off as it was getting a bit stale. At least it's not Mark Gatiss taking over.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 23, 2016)

8den said:


> Yeah he does understand we can handle Who, the Euros and The Olympics.
> Fucking ego.
> 
> God his swan song is going to make Davis' positively restrained.


And some of us have no interest in the Olympics and won't be voting in the Euros. In fact we'd quite like something as a constellation for having to avoid the TV for the month the Olympics is on.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 23, 2016)

*Consolation. 

(Remember before smartphones when people could spell?)


----------



## 8den (Jan 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> And some of us have no interest in the Olympics and won't be voting in the Euros. In fact we'd quite like something as a constellation for having to avoid the TV for the month the Olympics is on.



Watching. The Euros is football


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 23, 2016)

8den said:


> Watching. The Euros is football


It's not a thing I've heard of. I assumed it was electing MEPs.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> It's not a thing I've heard of. I assumed it was electing MEPs.


It's the week/fortnight where we decide as a nation who is going to be our pantomime villain for the next two years, i.e. until the Worlds comes along.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 23, 2016)

kabbes said:


> It's the week/fortnight where we decide as a nation who is going to be our pantomime villain for the next two years, i.e. until the Worlds comes along.


I don't understand the references. Is it a song?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> (Remember before smartphones when people could spell?)


Aye, I keep spelling ill as I'll and having to go back and alter it.

I think Doctor Who was getting really crap when it was bad. A few decent episodes in that series but in the years of Tennant even the less ace episodes were thoroughly watchable and fun. It's not even the quality of the acting either, it's that Moffatt has often sacrificed storytelling for clever twistyness. Plus I hate it when Capaldi runs about all knock-kneed like someone who has often heard running described but has never actually done it. He should stride, purposefully.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 23, 2016)

Moff was getting tired. Still, not happy with only one show this year. As long as Capaldi sticks with the programe.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> I don't understand the references. Is it a song?


Are you being deliberately obtuse here Mr Red?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 23, 2016)

S☼I said:


> Are you being deliberately obtuse here Mr Red?


No. Is it an episode of Dr Who? I've Googled the line "until the worlds come along", but it doesn't take me anywhere. It sounds like a song lyric ("until the real thing comes along"), but I don't understand the connection with pantomime villains. Sorry.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> No. Is it an episode of Dr Who? I've Googled the line "until the worlds come along", but it doesn't take me anywhere. It sounds like a song lyric ("until the real thing comes along"), but I don't understand the connection with pantomime villains. Sorry.


Football. We're OK at it down here. Some England player will fuck up at the European Championships this summer and be vilified until the World Cup in 2018 when some other hapless fool will be public enemy number one for failing to be as good at football than all the other good footballers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 23, 2016)

S☼I said:


> Football. We're OK at it down here. Some England player will fuck up at the European Championships this summer and be vilified until the World Cup in 2018 when some other hapless fool will be public enemy number one for failing to be as good at football than all the other good footballers.


And that's the pantomime villain?

Ok, cheers. I was unaware of this ritual.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> And that's the pantomime villain?
> 
> Ok, cheers. I was unaware of this ritual.


It happens at international football tournaments, so being a Scot you're unlikely to be aware of it.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 23, 2016)

S☼I said:


> It happens at international football tournaments, so being a Scot you're unlikely to be aware of it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 23, 2016)

S☼I said:


> It happens at international football tournaments, so being a Scot you're unlikely to be aware of it.


My lack of football knowledge includes Scottish football.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jan 23, 2016)

Quite sad about Moffat leaving but looking forward to a different viewpoint.


----------



## 8den (Jan 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Scottish football.



Sorry I know both those words I've just never seen them in the same sentence.


----------



## zoooo (Jan 23, 2016)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Worse than the walking, talking David-Tennant-shaped dildo that Rose got as consolation prize the second time RTD wrote her out


That's something the Dr Who merchandise is missing.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 23, 2016)

zoooo said:


> That's something the Dr Who merchandise is missing.


Would be popular, I imagine


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 23, 2016)

ginger_syn said:


> Quite sad about Moffat leaving but looking forward to a different viewpoint.



That's the great strength of Who. Let's see what happens next...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 23, 2016)

Paul Cornell should do it


----------



## kabbes (Jan 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> My lack of football knowledge includes Scottish football.


Don't worry, that is also true of the Scottish footballers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 23, 2016)

kabbes said:


> Don't worry, that is also true of the Scottish footballers.


There have been several similar posts which seem to assume that I either know what you're talking about or care.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 23, 2016)




----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 23, 2016)

Anyway, I can only conclude that the announcement that Broadchurch dude is taking over means Olivia Colman confirmed as the 13th doctor.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 23, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Anyway, I can only conclude that the announcement that Broadchurch dude is taking over means Olivia Coleman confirmed as the 13th doctor.


It's a dude, then? I wasn't sure as Chris could be either.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 23, 2016)

She's got the perfect face to be the doctor.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> It's a dude, then? I wasn't sure as Chris could be either.



Actually I have no idea. Look at me, being all gender normative.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 23, 2016)

And like Capaldi, she's already been in Who.

Further to that, like Capaldi, she was in the first proper adventure episode for Smith's reign (Capaldi was in Donna's first proper adventure).


----------



## 8den (Jan 23, 2016)

Doctor Who fans 'not over-reacting' by burning BBC to ground


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 23, 2016)

It's fate. Meant to be.

Frankly, it's canon afaic.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 23, 2016)

8den said:


> Doctor Who fans 'not over-reacting' by burning BBC to ground



God, who would want Gaiman in charge?


----------



## zoooo (Jan 23, 2016)

Chris Chibnall is a dude.
And he wrote lots of Torchwood. Which I liked. So I am in favour of this turn of events.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 23, 2016)

He shall hence forth be known as chin-balls


----------



## Gromit (Jan 23, 2016)

zoooo said:


> Chris Chibnall is a dude.
> And he wrote lots of Torchwood.



So over a year's wait for something thats going to be crap. Yay!


----------



## 8den (Jan 23, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> God, who would want Gaiman in charge?



Lots of people who (to paraphrase Gaiman) have overactive & underdeveloped imaginations...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 23, 2016)

I don't understand the cult of Neil Gaiman. But to each their own I suppose.


----------



## 8den (Jan 23, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I don't understand the cult of Neil Gaiman. But to each their own I suppose.



He's written two episodes one was very good. The other middling.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 25, 2016)

I would like to point out I was right earlier in the thread when invoking Private Eye (who got it right, again) who said there would only be an xmas special next year.

ner-ner


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 25, 2016)

I award you the medal of perispacity as first seen (only fleetingly) in 'Brain of Morbius'.

bit dredd though, is moffat the prophet that indispensible someone else couldn't have taken the chair and made it so? I don't think he is. They could have at the very least given us a spin off series of some sort


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 25, 2016)

whats capaldi going to do all year anyway? I don't imagine he needs to sign on.


----------



## gosub (Jan 25, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> whats capaldi going to do all year anyway? I don't imagine he needs to sign on.


He's got a tardis, he can be in 2017 in the blink of an eye


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 26, 2016)

Capaldi is leaving when Moffat does so Chibnall can pick his own doctor.

(It's in the Mirror.)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 26, 2016)

capaldi going so soon? this is chinbollocks.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 26, 2016)

zoooo said:


> Chris Chibnall is a dude.
> And he wrote lots of Torchwood. Which I liked. So I am in favour of this turn of events.



Apart from series 3, I wasn't a huge fan. A bit hit and miss. That said; he did write "Countrycide", so I look fwd to a new era.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 26, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> capaldi going so soon? this is chinbollocks.



They've all only done 3 seasons (excepting Ecclescakes, who kept it pure at 1).


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 26, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> capaldi going so soon? this is chinbollocks.



He'll be leaving after 3 seasons. Standard tenure, I reckons.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 26, 2016)

oh well let the fruitless replacement speculations begin then. Tenner says its a middle class white bloke again despite the rumours every time that the beeb might cast a little wider than that they never do. Moffat making master into missy was probably as far as they will go. Unless chinbollocks makes a bold break in tradition?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 26, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> oh well let the fruitless replacement speculations begin then. Tenner says its a middle class white bloke again despite the rumours every time that the beeb might cast a little wider than that they never do. Moffat making master into missy was probably as far as they will go. Unless chinbollocks makes a bold break in tradition?



CE is hardly "middle class", though


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 26, 2016)

Didn't think it possible when Capaldi was announced that I'd ever be OK with him going, especially so it seems quite soo, but I'll genuinely be OK with it. Not convinced he's the Doctor Who Moffat wanted or the programme needed.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 26, 2016)

S☼I said:


> Didn't think it possible when Capaldi was announced that I'd ever be OK with him going, especially so it seems quite soo, but I'll genuinely be OK with it. Not convinced he's the Doctor Who Moffat wanted or the programme needed.



I believe in him. It's just the quality of stories have diminshed. I can easily watch a Tennant ep or CE but with MS, I felt the quality was starting to go.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jan 27, 2016)

Thankfully won't have to deal with the trauma of capaldi leaving for almost two years, and I hope I'll like the next doctor as much as I've liked the last two.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 27, 2016)




----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 27, 2016)

Too 'kooky'.

Olivia Colman or bust.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 27, 2016)

Olivia Coleman would be great.  Richard Ayoade, much as I love him, would be _terrible._


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 27, 2016)

Olivia Colman has the PERFECT mouth for it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 27, 2016)

oh sophie from peep show. Not sure. I'd keep expecting her to have to save the universe from superhans


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 27, 2016)

It would be following a trend.

Capaldi - major character in an important episode with Tennant (Donna's first adventure with him, and when he first had his morals questioned properly in ages).

Colman - major character in Smith's first outing with the Ponds, just as he was getting used to his face.

Plus Chinballs knows her already.

It's canon, afaic.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 27, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Olivia Colman has the PERFECT mouth for it.


See, I was with you until you said that. Now I think you're just being a weird stalker, and I want to distance myself from your unhealthy obsession.


----------



## zoooo (Jan 27, 2016)

Ever since I saw Charlie Covell in an episode of Banana (and/or Cucumber) and decided she kind of looked like a female Tennant, I've wanted her to be the Doctor. She even already has a Doctory coat.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 27, 2016)

Oh god, no.  No no no no no.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 27, 2016)

She looks too young. We shouldn't go back to a young doctor again. Not yet.


----------



## zoooo (Jan 28, 2016)

I'm weak, I just want a fit one again.

5 and 10 were cute, I suppose I'll have to wait till 15.


----------



## Santino (Jan 29, 2016)

Are we still getting that spin-off about Coal Hill School?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 29, 2016)

I hope not. It seemed like a good idea at the time but in hindsight I am against it


----------



## zoooo (Jan 29, 2016)

Santino said:


> Are we still getting that spin-off about Coal Hill School?


Yes. And the guy in charge of that is a flat out genius. 
I predict everyone will think it's going to be shit and then it'll turn out ten times better than Dr Who.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 29, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


>




If you are going to go back to full blown eccentric geek why not hire a real one:




Jon Tickle for The Doctor!


----------



## Gromit (Jan 29, 2016)

Personally i think its time we had more of an action hero Doctor who can land a beating.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 29, 2016)

zoooo said:


> better than Dr Who


does.not.compute


----------



## 8den (Jan 29, 2016)

It seems Capaldi is doomed to be the Baker (Colin not Tom) of new who, an actor who was never given the chance with the role. For shame.


----------



## 8den (Jan 29, 2016)

Gromit said:


> If you are going to go back to full blown eccentric geek why not hire a real one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just. Fuck. Off.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 29, 2016)

8den said:


> Just. Fuck. Off.



I don't want another Sylvester MacCoy either tbh. Never again.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 29, 2016)

Gromit said:


> I don't want another Sylvester MacCoy either tbh. Never again.



Yeah, I just don't get why people rate his take on Who.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 29, 2016)

it brought the manipulating arsehole to the fore. The beating double-hearts of the universes vilest liberal. Without Toms charm, Davidsons polished nice young man act or pertwe's gentleman of action veneer to cover it. We saw a mind very old and very cruel and one who struggles to understand mortal mans mayfly lives


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 29, 2016)

Gromit said:


> If you are going to go back to full blown eccentric geek why not hire a real one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Never heard of him.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 29, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> it brought the manipulating arsehole to the fore. The beating double-hearts of the universes vilest liberal. Without Toms charm, Davidsons polished nice young man act or pertwe's gentleman of action veneer to cover it. We saw a mind very old and very cruel and one who struggles to understand mortal mans mayfly lives


to expand on this- if you enjoyed or even watched Sly Mcoy then Hurts War Doctor should have come as no suprise. I recall at the time internet talk of 'but he's a pacifist!' nope. Never was. He abhors direct violence especially if he has to do it himself. But never a pacifist. Hurts doctor was the failure of all the machinations and power games and clever ways he managed to save things. To become that, a grizzled old warrior, was an admission of his darker nature. theres a moment when hurts doctor humurously berates ten inch and smith about their horror of getting old/ageism. Increasingly I think their horror was something different. It was like being reminded of the worst thing you did. Being reminded of how under the surface of a grin and a bag of jelly babies theres another sort of you. One you don't like to look at.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 29, 2016)

The Doctor is at his best when that dark underbelly comes to the fore, or at least slips out a bit. Only when the writing makes it clear that's happening though. Not when the Doctor is just being a dick for no real reason (as we saw quite a bit with Smith... that came across less as the Doctor showing he has other sides and more Moffat wanted to be cool).


----------



## kabbes (Jan 29, 2016)

Tenant did that so, so well.  As did Ecclescake with his dalek scene


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 29, 2016)

I think Capaldi's done it pretty well too. He's back to that 'not understanding morals' thing, and some of his stuff on Gallifrey was good.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 29, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> The Doctor is at his best when that dark underbelly comes to the fore, or at least slips out a bit. Only when the writing makes it clear that's happening though. Not when the Doctor is just being a dick for no real reason (as we saw quite a bit with Smith... that came across less as the Doctor showing he has other sides and more Moffat wanted to be cool).



yes that was what you got with Sly. His machinations and string pulling made clear and not played sympathetically either. The Doctor as essential a terrifyingly powerful utalitarian. And yet, and yet. At war with his puppy nature and at war with his eccentric daftness. The dialectic of his soul. I think thats why seeing the character be so duplicitous and ruthless 'in the service of greater good' still has impact. Its like watching your nan swear or that cuddly teacher lose it and start handing out the severe bollockings. Watch the prog enough and you know there is that problematic core but the razzmatazz of the space wizard and his grins and marvels can...obfuscate.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 29, 2016)

It's what made Capaldi banishing the council and all that on Gallifrey a good moment for me because he's being proper ruthless which is something you don't see often. And all that fire and brimstone after Clara died... I think Moff over-egged it a bit with the 'am I a good man' stuff, because I don't think we need it to be pushed in our face so obviously... let his actions tell the story.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 29, 2016)

I liked the 'am I a good man?' stuff tbh. Because it made you ask yourself that question about the doc. It was milked, but then moffat milks more than a dairy farm. It also made me ask myself that question, and I was found slightly wanting. But its good to do it. The ultimate privcheck. But then I never genocided the wyrnn or beat Satan and became friends with the Ood so what do I know


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 29, 2016)

Yeah don't get me wrong, I like it when he is questioned and when he questions, but the way Moff did it didn't feel quite right. Overall, stuff like when the dalek calls him out (or rather, tells it like it is - which itself was mirrored in an earlier ep) was both over-egged _and_ really great, I liked it a lot. And of course sometimes you have to be bleedin' obvious if you want some of the younger audience to take note of something, but sometimes he's a bit  _too_ obvious with stuff.

See also that fucking crack in the wall.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 29, 2016)

I suppose the 'am I a good man' also ties in to the xenokinder nature, the regeneration trauma and all that. Genuinely wanting to know, reviewing those alien memories (they are alien to him after regeneration). Did I do right there? Did I make things better, have I done things correct. Am I good.

In his case the answer is 'no bruv you've behaved apppalingly on multiple occaisons but you are the only member of your species that displays even a shred of decency and you saved earth so many times I have lost count so its swings and roundabouts really'


----------



## Santino (Jan 29, 2016)

"No, YOU are a good Daaalek."


----------



## Chz (Jan 30, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> yes that was what you got with Sly. His machinations and string pulling made clear and not played sympathetically either. The Doctor as essential a terrifyingly powerful utalitarian. And yet, and yet. At war with his puppy nature and at war with his eccentric daftness. The dialectic of his soul. I think thats why seeing the character be so duplicitous and ruthless 'in the service of greater good' still has impact. Its like watching your nan swear or that cuddly teacher lose it and start handing out the severe bollockings. Watch the prog enough and you know there is that problematic core but the razzmatazz of the space wizard and his grins and marvels can...obfuscate.


To be fair, that's from the *second* season of McCoy. The first was unmitigated shit for the most part. Much like Colin Baker's run it's not entirely the cast's fault, but poor Bonnie Langford still has to put up with people giving her shit over it. She wasn't half bad in the couple of Big Finish stories they wrote her into.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 30, 2016)

Chz said:


> To be fair, that's from the *second* season of McCoy. The first was unmitigated shit for the most part. Much like Colin Baker's run it's not entirely the cast's fault, but poor Bonnie Langford still has to put up with people giving her shit over it. She wasn't half bad in the couple of Big Finish stories they wrote her into.


not having watched (endured?) the series in chronological order at the time I've mainly dipped into the classic, critically well recieved sly.  Sly. So I recall the good ones more than shite. iyswim. Here is the lyrics to a Doctor Who theme tune that Chinballs wrote when he was a kid and sent to dr who mag:





			
				chinballs said:
			
		

> One fateful day in ‘63
> 
> A man staggered out of the fog
> 
> ...



LOOOOOOOOOOOOL


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 30, 2016)

Oh bless


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## DotCommunist (Jan 30, 2016)

its funny, the article I cropped that from mentioned that as a fifty year old geek franchise Who is one of the few who has fans and workers on the show who were mere striplings when the early days aired. Sometimes not even that, just gleams in the milkmans eye


----------



## 8den (Jan 30, 2016)

Chz said:


> To be fair, that's from the *second* season of McCoy. The first was unmitigated shit for the most part. Much like Colin Baker's run it's not entirely the cast's fault, but poor Bonnie Langford still has to put up with people giving her shit over it. She wasn't half bad in the couple of Big Finish stories they wrote her into.



Bonnie Langford was a terrible actress in a dreadful role. 

Kinda Like Martha Jones and her inability to cry


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 7, 2016)

Peter Capaldi: ‘I’ve been asked to stay on in Doctor Who after Steven Moffat leaves’


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## danny la rouge (Mar 7, 2016)

Hope he stays; he hasn't been well served by Moffat.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 7, 2016)

He's had some good stories, albeit he's had some shit ones as well but this is the nature of Who. He's always been a great doctor though, even if the stories let him down

two or three more seasons under someone elses writing might put him truly in the pantheon of pertwee, davidson, mcoy and ten inch plus boy doctor smith


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 25, 2016)

I'll just leave this here

Doctor Who and the Communist: The work and politics of Malcolm Hulke


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 22, 2016)

New Doctor Who companion to be revealed in football half-time


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## danny la rouge (Apr 22, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> New Doctor Who companion to be revealed in football half-time


"Doctor Who fans will have to tune into the FA Cup semi-final on Saturday to find out the identity of the Time Lord’s new companion".  They can fuck right off with that idea.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 22, 2016)

yep , or read the internets 30 seconds after the announcement, i find the timing really bizarre


----------



## Santino (Apr 22, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> "Doctor Who fans will have to tune into the FA Cup semi-final on Saturday to find out the identity of the Time Lord’s new companion".  They can fuck right off with that idea.


If you don't tune in (using the tuning dials on your electro-vision set) then you'll just wander around for the next few months not knowing who it is.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 22, 2016)

Santino said:


> If you don't tune in (using the tuning dials on your electro-vision set) then you'll just wander around for the next few months not knowing who it is.


No, I'll look at one of the dr who Twitter accounts I follow. I'll probably look at several.


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## Santino (Apr 22, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> No, I'll look at one of the dr who Twitter accounts I follow. I'll probably look at several.


Oh. That's me told then.


----------



## lazythursday (Apr 22, 2016)

On the one hand I think it's good that the programme remains culturally important and things like a new companion a big deal. On the other, this kind of thing just smacks of the kind of lazy showbiz hype it suffered from in the 80s. Why not do something like release footage of several auditions with different actors (including some barmy red herrings), get people debating who would be best / worst... instead just announce some Eastenders actress in a cheesy light-entertainment 'event'.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 22, 2016)




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## mwgdrwg (Apr 22, 2016)

It will be some brief respite from the horror that is watching Everton these days


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2016)

lazythursday said:


> On the one hand I think it's good that the programme remains culturally important and things like a new companion a big deal. On the other, this kind of thing just smacks of the kind of lazy showbiz hype it suffered from in the 80s. Why not do something like release footage of several auditions with different actors (including some barmy red herrings), get people debating who would be best / worst... instead just announce some Eastenders actress in a cheesy light-entertainment 'event'.


I take it you didn't see the weird telethon type thing that followed the 50th anniversary episode? At one point they cut to a live feed in LA to get One Directions opinions on the show. Luckily god is on my side and fucked the connection so we didn't get to hear what some twats think about who.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> "Doctor Who fans will have to tune into the FA Cup semi-final on Saturday to find out the identity of the Time Lord’s new companion". They can fuck right off with that idea.


amen. I wonder if they'll veer beyond 'attractive mid-20s woman' this time. You never know. Could be Rory returns


----------



## lazythursday (Apr 22, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I take it you didn't see the weird telethon type thing that followed the 50th anniversary episode? At one point they cut to a live feed in LA to get One Directions opinions on the show. Luckily god is on my side and fucked the connection so we didn't get to hear what some twats think about who.


I think I do have some traumatic buried memory of this... no I didn't mean allowing people to debate on some terrible show hosted by Zoe Ball. I mean just building up the hype online in a more sophisticated way, behaving more like Game of Thrones rathert than Holby City in Space.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 22, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> amen. I wonder if they'll veer beyond 'attractive mid-20s woman' this time. You never know. Could be Rory returns



I'm going to hazard a guess at that being a "no." 

I do, however, think she'll be Asian.

If I have my cynical hat on, like.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm going to hazard a guess at that being a "no."
> 
> I do, however, think she'll be Asian.
> 
> If I have my cynical hat on, like.


I watched Stan Lee's Lucky Man and it made me remember how good I thought her in it from The God Complex would be.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 22, 2016)

I could absolutely see her as a companion.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I could absolutely see her as a companion.


Who is she?


----------



## Santino (Apr 22, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Who is she?


And you call yourself a Dr the Who fan.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 22, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Who is she?


This is her apparently 

Hrmm don't think I like her. 



> She began her career as an investment banker (at Hawkpoint and CIBC World Markets) specialising in mergers and acquisitions,[10]before studying for an MA degree in acting


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2016)

emanymton said:


> This is her apparently


Ah, The God Complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . I didn't think I recognised the episode on first reading that synopsis. I only dimly remember it now. 

I didn't rewatch the Smith episodes, and don't have any on DVD.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah, The God Complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . I didn't think I recognised the episode on first reading that synopsis. I only dimly remember it now.
> 
> I didn't rewatch the Smith episodes, and don't have any on DVD.


I don't get how people can remember a side character from a single episode from over 4 years ago.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2016)

emanymton said:


> I don't get how people can remember a side character from a single episode from over 4 years ago.


I think it's because they've rewatched the episode several times.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> I think it's because they've rewatched the episode several times.


I guess so. But even with things I have watched several times I don't remember all the episode names or the actors of the side characters. But then I normally have a year or two between repeat viewings.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 23, 2016)

emanymton said:


> I guess so. But even with things I have watched several times I don't remember all the episode names or the actors of the side characters. But then I normally have a year or two between repeat viewings.


I don't remember them all only some that stand out as particularly good or shit. Probably watched the episode twice possibly three times when it was first aired. Also spent the first episode of Lucky Man trying to remember where I'd seen her before.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2016)




----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2016)




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## Lord Camomile (Apr 23, 2016)

So a young woman who needs her hand held to run.

Again.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Apr 23, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


>



Comes from Brixton apparently.


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 23, 2016)

I liked her in that little clip, just have to wait until series 10 is on


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 24, 2016)

Well, it's someone I don't know. Which is good. Other than that, we shall see


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 24, 2016)

ginger_syn said:


> I liked her in that little clip, just have to wait until series 10 is on


This little clip?




Or the *very* tiny one I posted at 6:19 PM yesterday?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> amen. I wonder if they'll veer beyond 'attractive mid-20s woman' this time. You never know. Could be Rory returns


rory returning is fast becoming doctor who lupus for me. Its never rory


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 24, 2016)

I like her already


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 24, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> This little clip?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes that little clip


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2016)

she looks a bit like a kids TV presenter so that should work. I can imagine her on blue peter or art attack (with niel buchannan)


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 24, 2016)




----------



## CNT36 (Apr 24, 2016)

Not to mention it's a fucking woman again. PC insanity.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 24, 2016)

CNT36 said:


>



Apart from Micky and Martha the Doctor's companions have invariably been white or silver. 

So Mill doesn't exact follow a pattern of PC pandering to race if that is what they are suggesting?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2016)

black person in popular program= PC gorn mad for some it seems. The same crowd that should have died of rage embolisms when Jack Harkness was about, being as he's gay.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 24, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> when Jack Harkness was about, being as he's gay.


Jack wasn't gay. He was gender / race blind. 
He'd have sex with practically anyone / anything.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 24, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Apart from Micky and Martha the Doctor's companions have invariably been white or silver.
> 
> So Mill doesn't exact follow a pattern of PC pandering to race if that is what they are suggesting?


Indeed:


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2016)

now I'm imagining the Face of Boe performing cunnilingus. Cheers thread.


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 24, 2016)

CNT36 said:


>


This is the kind of stuff that always makes me add not the internet kind, when I tell people i'm a doctor who fan.Reading ds earlier made me just a bit sad.


----------



## 8den (Apr 24, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> black person in popular program= PC gorn mad for some it seems. The same crowd that should have died of rage embolisms when Jack Harkness was about, being as he's gay.



I think the DM comments sections should get to pick the next assistant in a write in competition. She'd have the body of Leela and the personality of Kate Hopkins...


----------



## gosub (Apr 24, 2016)

8den said:


> I think the DM comments sections should get to pick the next assistant in a write in competition. She'd have the body of Leela and the personality of Kate Hopkins...


Sounds more like a baddy


----------



## 8den (Apr 24, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> now I'm imagining the Face of Boe performing cunnilingus. Cheers thread.



How's it work do they squeeze into his tank?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2016)

8den said:


> How's it work do they squeeze into his tank?


the brief and ugly flash of imagining was de-tanked. Think like a woman being pleasured by a wrinkly manta ray. That looks like a face


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 24, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> the brief and ugly flash of imagining was de-tanked. Think like a woman being pleasured by a wrinkly manta ray. That looks like a face


Listen pal, that's all your own doing: don't you go laying that on the rest of us. You sicko.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2016)

you triggered me


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 24, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> you triggered me


I don't even want to _know_ what you mean by that.

<stares firmly>


----------



## 8den (Apr 24, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> the brief and ugly flash of imagining was de-tanked. Think like a woman being pleasured by a wrinkly manta ray. That looks like a face



I was thinking Novice Prin slipping into the tank but no cat is getting wet even to get her pussy licked.


























I'm truly sorry on many level for that.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 25, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> black person in popular program= PC gorn mad for some it seems. The same crowd that should have died of rage embolisms when Jack Harkness was about, being as he's gay.



Where were they when Sharon became the Doctor's assistant, eh? The bastards.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 8, 2016)

http://io9.gizmodo.com/missing-doctor-who-story-power-of-the-daleks-is-getting-1786285891

this looks great, the animation is cool, got the shivers when the Dalek voices started up.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 8, 2016)

Looks (and sounds) great.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 8, 2016)

It'll keep us going till christmas anyway.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> It'll keep us going till christmas anyway.


I've got the audio book version. It's great. But I'll get the DVD anyway. 

There are a few dalek facts that are no longer canon, though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2016)

Mine arrived yesterday. Looking forward to seeing it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2016)

oh yeah this was on the news a few days ago. Torrents will be up soon I imagine. Re-watched the trailer and felt the same 'hairs stand up on neck' thing. Interestingly the Daleks of old didn't just use Exterminate as a catchphrase but also synonyms of: Annahilate, Obliterate etc


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2016)

matt fucking lucas. At least he won't be blacking up for this


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Dec 10, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> matt fucking lucas. At least he won't be blacking up for this


I've persevered with _Class_ as it was randomish Buffyfluff and I know Christmas Who is always a bit meh but to actually have a super-hero?! I'm starting to worry. 


Oh yeah and Matt Lucas


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 15, 2016)

Pseudopsycho said:


> Oh yeah and Matt Lucas


cunts announced that he will be sticking around for the new series as the Docs valet. Cheers moffat.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 15, 2016)

whens moffat off ? he is shit , too much ego , thinks he is being clever with convoluted plots that always tend to get solved with the screwdriver.

Peter Capaldi could have been awesome, but he is just ok with the stuff he has to work with


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 15, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> cunts announced that he will be sticking around for the new series as the Docs valet. Cheers moffat.


Oh ffs!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 15, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> cunts announced that he will be sticking around for the new series as the Docs valet. Cheers moffat.



Why do you keep bringing me bad Who news?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 15, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> whens moffat off ? he is shit , too much ego , thinks he is being clever with convoluted plots that always tend to get solved with the screwdriver.
> 
> Peter Capaldi could have been awesome, but he is just ok with the stuff he has to work with


I believe this is his last series before chinballs gets the Chair, but I'd imagine Chinballs will be working closely with moffat on much of the latter pary of this coming series- because that seems logical, not because I know


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 15, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Why do you keep bringing me bad Who news?


Shoot Dotty!


----------



## PursuedByBears (Dec 15, 2016)

FFS. I'm going right off Doctor Who, the Christmas special looks shit and I can't stand Matt Lucas.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 15, 2016)

Look at his face.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 16, 2016)

It will be interesting to see how nardoles character develops through  series 10, I'm also quite curious as to how he gets reunited with his body but overall I'm just looking forward to the christmas episode as I usually enjoy them.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

PursuedByBears said:


> FFS. I'm going right off Doctor Who, the Christmas special looks shit and I can't stand Matt Lucas.



It's tried and tested me over the years. I've been watching since 1974, so I really have seen the best and worst. Try being a fan when Michael Grade and other elements within the beeb were trying to kill it off. That said, despite the show allegedly being a BBC flagship thingy - they haven't really tried this year, have they? Could only sit through one ep of "Class" which was very meh. 

I will, of course, watch the Xmas special - but more out of duty than love.

This does not reflect on Capaldi who is doing a magnificent job, despite the scripts and the rest.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Dec 16, 2016)

Oh, I remember the utter shitness of Delta and the Bannermen. And don't get me started on the Candyman (shudder). I just haven't enjoyed Peter Capaldi's Doctor nearly as much as I've wanted to and I feel a bit cheated.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 16, 2016)

PursuedByBears said:


> Oh, I remember the utter shitness of Delta and the Bannermen. And don't get me started on the Candyman (shudder).


Well, that's why eveeyobe should be an Octavian. 

But it's a bit worrying that we may be looking at a new dark age.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Pseudopsycho said:


> I've persevered with _Class_ as it was randomish Buffyfluff and I know Christmas Who is always a bit meh but to actually have a super-hero?! I'm starting to worry.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah and Matt Lucas



The superhero thing will no doubt be played for laughs. Seeing as Absolom Daak is now canon, I'd like to mention again that Doctor Who has links to the superhero community (courtesy of Marvel).

Who can forget the ass kicking dystopian vigilante "Angel" in "The End of the Line" from Steve Parkhouse and Dave Gibbons?

End of the Line (comic story)

Or Captain Britain's mates - The Special Executive who make a few trips to Gallifrey?

Special Executive (Captain Britain foes)


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2016)

I stuck with class even though its not that good, I sort of like the villanous blonde woman who plays an alien who is supposed to protect the king or something. The alien kingf. You can see how well I have been paying attention. It'll have to go in the box with sarah jane adventures, looks well made enough but never grabbed me despite a very strong opening two eps


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Dec 16, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I stuck with class even though its not that good, I sort of like the villanous blonde woman who plays an alien who is supposed to protect the king or something. The alien kingf. You can see how well I have been paying attention. It'll have to go in the box with sarah jane adventures, looks well made enough but never grabbed me despite a very strong opening two eps


Did you stick to the end to see the dodgy headmistress get her comeuppance from the governors (and their extraterrestrial masters)?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2016)

Pseudopsycho said:


> Did you stick to the end to see the dodgy headmistress get her comeuppance from the governors (and their extraterrestrial masters)?


didn't get that far no. Might do after the xmas day main act tho


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 17, 2016)

Doctor Who News: Moments in Time - Welcome to The Highland Piper

"It was fifty years ago today, on *Saturday 17th December 1966*, that the Second Doctor met a young highland piper, _James Robert McCrimmon_, someone who would stay with him through the rest of his incarnation, becoming the longest serving companion in the history of the series.

*Frazer Hines* has, so far, appeared in 116 episodes of _Doctor Who_. Only four actors, the first four Doctors, have appeared in more episodes."


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2016)

* 5.45pm on BBC1 on Christmas Day*.

What time is the Doctor Who Christmas Special on TV?

Public service announcement.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2016)

touch and go wether I can watch this eve. Bros laptop is flaky. Need wifi password to get internets on phone then plug phone into projector :/


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 25, 2016)

Well, even worse than I expected.


----------



## DexterTCN (Dec 25, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> Well, even worse than I expected.


Are you nuts that was great.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 25, 2016)

It was okay. Some lols, many cringes. More excited about the teaser with Pearl Mackie at the end. "Doctor Wot?"

The fuck has the Doctor got about certain professions? Clara and Grant were nannies, and Rose and Bill worked in a chippy.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 25, 2016)

DexterTCN said:


> Are you nuts that was great.



Yes, I loved the Dr Who Xmas special as well. Few to no problems with it


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 26, 2016)

thoroughly enjoyed the christmas episode,  it was fun and silly and just a little bit sad, just excellent christmas telly and the series trailer looked good as well.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 26, 2016)

Much better than usual this year


----------



## Cloo (Dec 26, 2016)

Yes, we definitely thought this was one of the better ones. No attempts at big setpieces or seasonal sentimentality, just a cute character-led story with nice one liners.

Next series looking promising.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Dec 26, 2016)

Matt Lucas was _not deathly annoying  _and even had some good lines!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 26, 2016)

Pseudopsycho said:


> Matt Lucas was _not deathly annoying  _and even had some good lines!


I missed something somewhere and had not the blindest clue who the fuck his character was


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 26, 2016)

He was in last years xmas special


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 26, 2016)

That was a fucking _year _ago


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 26, 2016)

Lol


----------



## kabbes (Dec 26, 2016)

I eventually realised Matt Lucas was in last year's Christmas special, and then I remembered that he basically died in that special.  So what the fuck is he doing running around now with the Doctor?  I'm guessing it's something to do with that spin-off I ignored, on the grounds that it was blatently going to be crap.  Since when did you have to watch spin-offs to keep up with the main show?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 26, 2016)

No there's a whole chat between Nardol and the doctor about why the doctor re-assembled him ( he is an android ) during the Christmas special ( to stop the doctor getting too lonely )


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 27, 2016)

Better than usual.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 27, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> No there's a whole chat between Nardol and the doctor about why the doctor re-assembled him ( he is an android ) during the Christmas special ( to stop the doctor getting too lonely )


Is there?  That totally passed me by.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 27, 2016)

Yup


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 27, 2016)

First time I've not watched the special on the day since the return as thought it would be utter shit. It wasn't great but better tan expected. Still smarting from that shit return of Gallifrey episode that became another mope about a companion episode. Last Christmas he was still all glum about Clara this year River. Change the record.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2016)

It wasn't shit but it I'll need to rewatch after having to watch it on a fucking phone;. Only then can I truly judge. Lucas is still a prick


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## danny la rouge (Dec 28, 2016)

I liked it. I was worried. But the two things I was most worried about turned out to be OK (the superhero, Matt Lucas).

I don't like superhero films. But this was fine. There were good lines. There wasn't too much Moffatty whizz bang shouty confusion masquerading as cleverness. There was a joke about meta-ness. And there were even some good lines from Lucas.

Not only that, I'm not even dismayed by the series trailers at the end! 

Result.


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 28, 2016)

The cheesiness stayed just about on the good side of cheesy.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2016)

ma took ill to the superhero angle and realised she was missing emmerdale (i think, one of the soaps). So sacked it off. I didn't mind that angle because it was played sufficiently whovian. No for me the whole thing was tinged with 'fuck this phone screen'. I'll watch it again on new years eve, with surround sound and screensize.


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## CNT36 (Dec 29, 2016)

All the "ain't it great to see a man looking after the kids" shit can fuck off and all.


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## T & P (Dec 30, 2016)

Got back home today and watched it. Not Christmasy at all, but a good episode all the same, and better than most recent Xmas specials IMO (perhaps because of the lack of a Xmas theme?). Loved the superhero character.


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