# 'One North'



## Belushi (Aug 5, 2014)

Five Northern Cities have proposed £15bn investment in infrastructure today. Osborne sounded up for it on the Today programme, though this is cause for concern:



> Osborne said he did not see a conflict between already tabled plans to build a second Crossrail in the south or a major transport link between Liverpool and Leeds.
> 
> The real public expenditure choice facing the UK, he said, was between investment in big infrastructure and "continuing to spend money on welfare payments that are not generating either a real economic return and at the same time are trapping people in poverty".



http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/05/george-osborne-15bn-investment-five-northern-cities


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## Fez909 (Aug 5, 2014)

They should spend the money on local transport links instead. The links between Leeds and Liverpool are good enough. Leeds doesn't even have a rapid mass transit system.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 5, 2014)

I think it's high time the Midlands picked sides and joined the north, the fencesitters


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2014)

this bit of it where I live should become part of greater Anglia, the borders of wales should swell to encompass the other bits and the top bits can go to the north. That way everyones happy.


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## Roadkill (Aug 5, 2014)

Improved transport links in the north are a no-brainer, but I'm sceptical about this, not least because it's a 'Core Cities' initiative, which is basically Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Liverpool and Newcastle protecting their interests, often at the expense of everyone else's.  From where I'm sitting - literally and figuratively - the HS3 initiative to connect up the belt of cities and large towns from Liverpool to Hull sounds a lot better.


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## Santino (Aug 5, 2014)

Winter is Coming


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## farmerbarleymow (Aug 5, 2014)

Roadkill said:


> Improved transport links in the north are a no-brainer, but I'm sceptical about this, not least because it's a 'Core Cities' initiative, which is basically Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Liverpool and Newcastle protecting their interests, often at the expense of everyone else's.  From where I'm sitting - literally and figuratively - the HS3 initiative to connect up the belt of cities and large towns from Liverpool to Hull sounds a lot better.



But to be fair, the big cities are the economic centres of their relevant parts of the North - certainly Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds.  There are always second tier cities and towns, as is the way of things.  I don't see why there can't be bother HS3 and much improved transport links between the cities mentioned - everything in this country is far too centred on the SE, while a good several million people live in these cities and their hinterlands so it is sensible to try and build up a counterweight to the SE.  

And ditch HS2 and spend the money in the North rather than building yet another way to drain well paid jobs down south.


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## farmerbarleymow (Aug 5, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I think it's high time the Midlands picked sides and joined the north, the fencesitters



I vote for donating them to the south.


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## farmerbarleymow (Aug 5, 2014)

But this is typical tory shite  knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing:



> The real public expenditure choice facing the UK, he said, was between investment in big infrastructure and *"continuing to spend money on welfare payments that are not generating either a real economic return* and at the same time are trapping people in poverty".



Cunt.


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## neonwilderness (Aug 5, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> But to be fair, the big cities are the economic centres of their relevant parts of the North - certainly Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds.  There are always second tier cities and towns, as is the way of things.  I don't see why there can't be bother HS3 and much improved transport links between the cities mentioned - everything in this country is far too centred on the SE, while a good several million people live in these cities and their hinterlands so it is sensible to try and build up a counterweight to the SE.
> 
> And ditch HS2 and spend the money in the North rather than building yet another way to drain well paid jobs down south.


There's already work underway to electrify the Transpennine route between Leeds and Manchester (and the missing bits to Liverpool) which will help
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/North_West_electrification.aspx

Extra funding would probably be well spent on improving local services though.  There's been some stuff done already, but it's a pittance to what is spent down south.


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## farmerbarleymow (Aug 5, 2014)

neonwilderness said:


> There's already work underway to electrify the Transpennine route between Leeds and Manchester (and the missing bits to Liverpool) which will help
> http://www.networkrail.co.uk/North_West_electrification.aspx
> 
> Extra funding would probably be well spent on improving local services though.  There's been some stuff done already, but it's a pittance to what is spent down south.



Exactly - the difference in per capita spend - at least according to the figures I saw a while back - between the regions and London is shocking.  Especially the NE which ends up at the bottom of the list.  Not a coincidence it is also furthest away and the least connected to London, and apparently is 'desolate' according to some fuckwit in the Lords.


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## farmerbarleymow (Aug 5, 2014)

And it is telling that the Treasury bods, presumably hastily, said that this was not a commitment to fund the £15 billion stated by the city councils involved in this.  So the real figure will be massively lower, while they'll continue to lavish cash on infrastructure for London.  What a surprise.


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## neonwilderness (Aug 6, 2014)

Interesting article about this on the Graun:
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...t-proposals-england-northern-cities?CMP=fb_gu



> Like anywhere, talk of economic growth in the north is illusory unless it is accompanied by a discussion about economic inequality, a phrase that is notably missing from today’s report. Not only do the proposals offer limited prospects for the economically disadvantaged, they risk creating a chasm between the blessed cities and those left out of the loop, or in more rural areas.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> this bit of it where I live should become part of greater Anglia, the borders of wales should swell to encompass the other bits and the top bits can go to the north. That way everyones happy.



Whoever gets Birmingham will not be happy.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 6, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Whoever gets Birmingham will not be happy.


We're fine on our own thank you very much


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 6, 2014)

Gideon said:
			
		

> The real public expenditure choice facing the UK, he said, was between investment in big infrastructure and "continuing to spend money on welfare payments that are not generating either a real economic return and at the same time are trapping people in poverty".



The man proves once again that he can't do basic sums. Crossrail alone is likely to cost three times what job seekers' allowance costs in a year.  

More importantly there is as usual no explanation of how cutting benefits will reduce poverty, when anyone who has had their benefits cut will tell you that it leads to an immediate increase in poverty because that's what poverty is, not having enough money. 

As for a 'real economic return', housing benefit has allowed the continued growth of  buy-to-let and thus the continued inflation of the housing market, which is just about the only thing making Osbourne's paperwork show economic growth in a time when the actual economy which gives us jobs, goods and services is going nowhere fast.


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## Dillinger4 (Aug 6, 2014)

Midlands = Mercia


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## neonwilderness (Aug 6, 2014)

Dillinger4 said:


> Midlands = Mercia


Cumbria can join Scotland when they get independence, Cornwall can do their own thing and we can go back to to the Saxon kingdoms


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## Dillinger4 (Aug 6, 2014)

Cumbria is the Kingdom of Rheged


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## Roadkill (Aug 6, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> But to be fair, the big cities are the economic centres of their relevant parts of the North - certainly Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds.  There are always second tier cities and towns, as is the way of things.  I don't see why there can't be bother HS3 and much improved transport links between the cities mentioned - everything in this country is far too centred on the SE, while a good several million people live in these cities and their hinterlands so it is sensible to try and build up a counterweight to the SE.
> 
> And ditch HS2 and spend the money in the North rather than building yet another way to drain well paid jobs down south.



I agree with pretty much all of that - except HS2, which is going to have to happen at some point  - but when I posted yesterday I was sceptical about the Core Cities group and what they were up to.  What the north doesn't need is five cities, even its largest, gobbling up all the investment like so many mini-Londons.  However, it appears that other cities - Hull, at least, which is the one I care about - have had some input into this and do back it, so I'll row back on the scepticism for now...


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## mr steev (Aug 6, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I vote for donating them to the south.



GTF



Orang Utan said:


> I think it's high time the Midlands picked sides and joined the north, the fencesitters



There's no affinity to the South here. We share a lot more with the North but no Midlander is going to say they are a Northerner, just like no Northerner would consider themselves a Midlander. You should hear the outrage at the suggestion of a Greater Birmingham encompassing the Black Country and Staffordshire. (was that the same locally when Greater Manchester was formed?)


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## friedaweed (Aug 6, 2014)

In Cheshire one is not amused at the idea of scruffers from the likes of Hull, Rochdale and Bradford plebians having speedy access to our lovely cities. We have enough of a problem with Romanian pickpocket gangs and teh Welsh skirmishes without those ruffians begging on our streets and stealing from our indipendant traders


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## Roadkill (Aug 6, 2014)

friedaweed said:


> In Cheshire one is not amused at the idea of scruffers from the likes of Hull, Rochdale and Bradford plebians having speedy access to our lovely cities. We have enough of a problem with Romanian pickpocket gangs and teh Welsh skirmishes without those ruffians begging on our streets and stealing from our indipendant traders



Are you actually George Osborne?


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## friedaweed (Aug 6, 2014)

Roadkill said:


> Are you actually George Osborne?


Can you say that a bit clearer darling I'm finding it hard to hear you whilst the Polo is in play


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## coley (Aug 12, 2014)

neonwilderness said:


> Cumbria can join Scotland when they get independence, Cornwall can do their own thing and we can go back to to the Saxon kingdoms


Aye, restore Northumbrias original borders


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## neonwilderness (Aug 12, 2014)

coley said:


> Aye, restore Northumbrias original borders


Northumberland parliament at Bamburgh?


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## coley (Aug 12, 2014)

neonwilderness said:


> Northumberland parliament at Bamburgh?



Of course, where else


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## Frances Lengel (Aug 24, 2014)

neonwilderness said:


> Interesting article about this on the Graun:
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...t-proposals-england-northern-cities?CMP=fb_gu



Very much so & even within the "blessed cities", economic inequality is an issue - In Manchester, you've got the city centre and the southside suburbs which are all doing well, then you've got areas to the north and east of town that might as well be on a different planet.


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## farmerbarleymow (Aug 24, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Very much so & even within the "blessed cities", economic inequality is an issue - In Manchester, you've got the city centre and the southside suburbs which are all doing well, then you've got areas to the north and east of town that might as well be on a different planet.



Unfortunately the same in any city though - there is always the historical imbalance between affluent and less affluent areas, and these are very difficult issues to fix.  Leeds is the same if memory serves, more affluent north and north west vs less affluent south and east of the city, broadly speaking. 

I don't know about Newcastle, but I suspect there is a pattern like this to some extent too.  Ditto any other city in the country.  World even?


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## _angel_ (Aug 24, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> They should spend the money on local transport links instead. The links between Leeds and Liverpool are good enough. Leeds doesn't even have a rapid mass transit system.


Exactly, having been in Liverpool this week I was stunned at things like train stations and trains. And an underground.
We don't even have trams in Leeds!!


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## neonwilderness (Aug 24, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I don't know about Newcastle, but I suspect there is a pattern like this to some extent too.


Yeah, north of the city (Gosforth/Jesmond/etc) is generally more affluent than east or west until you get away from the city centre.


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