# George IV/Music Bar at 144 Brixton Hill closing as another Tesco comes to Brixton



## quimcunx (Jul 21, 2012)

144 Brixton Hill is the address for the Music Bar. 

Fuck off, Tesco.  

Is there anything can be done re planning permission?


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 21, 2012)

Previous discussion on this issue here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...d-news-july-2012.295698/page-15#post-11365365

re planning permission: oppose everything. On ground of noise, traffic generated by car park/ATM/deliveries etc. Kate Hoey MP and Cllr Kingsley Abrahams were supportive when residents opposed the Tesco at the Russell Hotel, but sadly it was too late to do anything in that case really (planning permisson was already in place.) They may be willing to help again....though Brixton Hill is actually a different ward and constituency.

quimmy - I have the email addresses of some of the people involved in the campaign against the Russell Hotel Tesco. I could PM them on to you if you're interested in talking to them about their experiences and maybe get some advice?


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## quimcunx (Jul 21, 2012)

oh, like _me _do something.  We've not met have we?   

Could be worth it.  Thing is there is already permission for convenience store side of things. I guess they mean the category of use, rather than convenience store specifically.   Permission is only needed for twiddling around the edges.   

Hm.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 21, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Thing is there is already permission for convenience store side of things. I guess they mean the category of use, rather than convenience store specifically. Permission is only needed for twiddling around the edges.


This is the same as the Russell Hotel situation. They only needed planning for the signage, ATM and installation of air con - which they got. Residents then objected on the grounds of delivery lorries making dangerous turns into the road in a very tight space, but it didn't come to anything. I think this will be very difficult to resist. Still, it could be worth doing some template letters for like-minded neighbours/residents to use to object to the planning.

Do Tesco own the site yet?


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## quimcunx (Jul 21, 2012)

Don't know.   You can see all the information I have in those letters in the OP.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 21, 2012)

Here's some info on the pub for Editor for his Lost Pubs of Brixton



An inquest into deaths at the reservoir nearby was also held at the George IV in the 1850s (page 17 and 18)

http://littlehamptonfort.co.uk/Fort Nelson Payment Slip.pdf

*1851 Census*
Hannah Brown living at George IV Stables – don’t know if the stables were separate accommodation rented by the landlord of the pub?

*1864 Map*
http://www.london1864.com/stanford50b.htm

*1878 - Surrey Directory *
George IV, William Prangnall, Brixton Rise

*1881*
George the Fourth - George the Fouth Cottages, Brixton, LAMBETH [1881] – (Assume it’s the same place)

*1896 – Suburban Publicans*
George IV, William Dedman, 144 Brixton Hill

*1904 – Suburban Publicans Directory*
George IV Hotel, John Cement, 114 Brixton Hill SW

*1919* *Surburban Directory*
George IV Hotel, Jn Osment, 144 Brixton hill, SW2

*1944 Census*
George IV Hotel, Knowland Bros Ltd, 144 Brixton Hill SW2

*1944 Post Office Directory*
George IV Hotel, Knowland Bros Ltd, 144 Brixton Hill SW2

*Not sure about this one (1826)  *
Brixton (Surrey)*http://deadpubs.co.uk/London1826/London1826-AB.shtml*

Black Horse, Robert Elden
Crown & Anchor, Hen Swift
Holland Arms, Robt Miles
Hope, Wm Skinner, Acre Lane
King George IV, Henry Wright
Lord Holland, John Spratley
Old White Horse, Thos Pitcher
Prince of wales, Roger Whittaker
Telegraph, James Brown
Wheatsheaf, Samuel Aveling
White Horse, Thos Higgins

*Picture of it in 1904 in the background*
http://landmark.lambeth.gov.uk/display_page.asp?section=landmark&id=8433


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 21, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> View attachment 21347
> 
> View attachment 21348
> 
> ...


 
and fuck Matt Magee (just in case he finds this thread)


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

*title edit for clarity


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 21, 2012)

Can't you remove the apostrophe?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 21, 2012)

Would be good if you could fit George IV in the title as well as a lot more people still know it as that, but you've only got so much room I suppose


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

How's that?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 21, 2012)

editor said:


> How's that?


 
Much better!  

Was known as the George IV for well over a century before George Four/Southside/Music Bar got their grubby little mitts on it


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## Winot (Jul 21, 2012)

I had my last truly great ecstasy trip at a drum 'n' bass night in George IV. Perhaps I should try and recreate that in the aisles when it becomes a Tesco's.


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## nagapie (Jul 21, 2012)

This thread makes me  I wish someone would kill Tesco. Sadly even I shop there now as my local shop is a Tesco Metro.


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## tommers (Jul 21, 2012)

I had one of the best nights of my life in the George IV after popping out for a pint of milk and getting distracted.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 21, 2012)

tommers said:


> I had one of the best nights of my life in the George IV after popping out for a pint of milk and getting distracted.


 
I had many brilliant nights there.  I've slept in half the rooms upstairs as well


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## fortyplus (Jul 21, 2012)

I last shopped in Tesco in 2005. Their despicable behaviour, in collusion with Cllrs Reed and Prentice, over the ice rink / car park / etc, vindicated my earlier decision that they would never see another penny of my money.  

Sainsbury's is just down the hill in the carpet shop now, so they have to compete, and carry on destroying local businesses.  

I have often thought that, were I ever inclined to take my own life, I would do so by detonating myself inside a Tesco Metro, preferably one of those ones that's like the house store for some gated housing development, so that I took with me a good number of the plastic muppets who degrade their souls by living in such places and shopping at Tesco.

And if anything were to trigger such an urge, it would surely be the desecration of the site of some of my greatest ever nights out dancing.


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## lang rabbie (Jul 22, 2012)

Matt hasn't updated his Twitter account to reflect his exciting new job working on London store openings:


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## slcr (Jul 22, 2012)

Even if it's not possible to oppose it becoming a Tesco (and does anyone one know whether it's possible to challenge the original planning permission that says it can be a convenience store? Especially given there's a Sainsbury's just down the hill now?), is it worth all writing to ask that the signage fits in with the surroundings rather than being normal white blue and red Tesco signage?  Aren't we in a conservation area technically?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 22, 2012)

slcr said:


> Even if it's not possible to oppose it becoming a Tesco (and does anyone one know whether it's possible to challenge the original planning permission that says it can be a convenience store? Especially given there's a Sainsbury's just down the hill now?), is it worth all writing to ask that the signage fits in with the surroundings rather than being normal white blue and red Tesco signage? Aren't we in a conservation area technically?


 
I remember when the Crown and Sceptre tried to change its name when it was taken over by Wetherspoons and they weren't allowed.  Not sure why that was though.  Is any of Streatham Hill in the conservation area?

From what I can remember of going past it, the Tesco that's now under the Russell Hotel has signage that isn't quite as glaring as other shops


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## quimcunx (Jul 22, 2012)

If they are writing letters then maybe it's because there is an objection to be had?


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## fortyplus (Jul 23, 2012)

Tesco certainly sponsored the planning application, even if they don't (yet) technically own the site. This is now their modus operandi, because an application in their name would have been picked up and opposed.
It's deliberate obfuscation, anti-transparency.
Deception is a better word for it.
It shouldn't be allowed. It's further proof that they are utter, utter cunts, as if we didn't know that already. All the supermarkets are, but Tesco and WalMart are in a different league.

They should be called out for their deception.  You can bet that somewhere in their corporate guff there will be a commitment to transparency. Lying tossers.

Engage, condemn, scare off, boycott.

And people, you know that if you ever spend any money with Tesco, your soul will rot for eternity. That is a true fact.


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## Onket (Jul 23, 2012)

Can someone set up an online petition? Perhaps with links to template letters for people to send?

Is there actually any point?


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## gabi (Jul 23, 2012)

I doubt it. Sadly. Tesco will get its way.


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## gabi (Jul 23, 2012)

There's an email address on that letter. Use it creatively.


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## gabi (Jul 23, 2012)

'Dear Neighbour'

Sender's address: 'Cheshunt, Herts'


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## editor (Jul 23, 2012)

gabi said:


> 'Dear Neighbour'
> 
> Sender's address: 'Cheshunt, Herts'


Tweeted all over the place. Well spotted.


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## chazegee (Jul 23, 2012)

Was always my first port of call when I lived on the hill and started rolling down it.


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## mach v (Jul 23, 2012)

GODDAMIT!! Why can't we have a nice waitrose store instead?



*hello*  long time, etc.

I wonder if I have one of these letters at home, too; considering the proximity of the George IV to my 'umble abode, behind Tudor Close. I'll certainly be whinging at that email address.


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## Winot (Jul 23, 2012)

mach v said:


> GODDAMIT!! Why can't we have a nice waitrose store instead?


 
Apparently we're not allowed to shop at Waitrose because this is Brixton not Chelsea.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 23, 2012)

mach v said:


> GODDAMI
> 
> I wonder if I have one of these letters at home, too; considering the proximity of the George IV to my 'umble abode, behind Tudor Close. I'll certainly be whinging at that email address.


 
I've not had one yet


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## quimcunx (Jul 23, 2012)

I was wondering if it was because I'm a shareholder* but they didn't put my name on there.  




















*one share for protest purposes you understand.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 23, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I was wondering if it was because I'm a shareholder* but they didn't put my name on there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Of course it is


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## leanderman (Jul 23, 2012)

I object on the grounds that the Tulse Hill parade needs such a store much more, if only for the purposes of me picnicing properly in the park


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## lang rabbie (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't think there has been a planning application yet.  

On the change of use, the "deregulation" of planning back under John Prescott in 2005 means that changes from pub to shop use now don't need planning permission as it is classed as it is now "permitted development".

Which means that ever since then Tesco have been buying up loads of pubs trading at the margin from debt-laden "PubCos" who are happy to get a cash buyer.


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## shakespearegirl (Jul 23, 2012)

We've not had a letter either, also just behind Tudor close.

Quimmy, do you want the details of our local councillor who was very reactive/supportive of our planning problems and other issues in the area


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## quimcunx (Jul 23, 2012)

Yeah, I thought it was probably a case of the use being covered anyway.  Pubs and shops are very different though. 


Christ I hate Tesco. 

Even if I do go there about twice a year.


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## quimcunx (Jul 23, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> quimmy - I have the email addresses of some of the people involved in the campaign against the Russell Hotel Tesco. I could PM them on to you if you're interested in talking to them about their experiences and maybe get some advice?


 


shakespearegirl said:


> We've not had a letter either, also just behind Tudor close.
> 
> Quimmy, do you want the details of our local councillor who was very reactive/supportive of our planning problems and other issues in the area


 

go on then.  It's me though. I'm not very proactive.  I know I got the letter but this affects lots of you.


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## lang rabbie (Jul 23, 2012)

The George IV is inside the* Rush Common and Brixton Hill Conservation Area. *




			
				Conservation Area Appraisal Document 1997 said:
			
		

> On Brixton Hill there are several good examples of late Victorian public houses (photographs 35 -37) ~ the White Horse with its carriage entrance leading to former stables behind, the Telegraph which commemorates an experimental telegraph system set up nearby in cl815, *and the splendid George IV public house - a late Victorian extravaganza with charming ironwork, stone balustrades and a jolly copper-clad turret topped by a flying seagull weathervane.*


 



So I think there has to be a conservation area consent application. It would be worth objecting to every change that Tesco want to make to the building, including removing the original signage, any closing in of windows, changes to door locations, on the grounds that it would harm the character of the conservation area.


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## quimcunx (Jul 23, 2012)

Gosh, Tesco never mentioned that in the letter.


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## Rushy (Jul 24, 2012)

lang rabbie said:


> The George IV is inside the* Rush Common and Brixton Hill Conservation Area. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Is there such a thing as a conservation area consent application?
Just a normal planning application with conservation area status as a consideration, I thought.
Unless it is listed, in which case it requires listed building consent.
It is not on Rush Common so won't need Rush Common consent.
Happy to be corrected if this is wrong...


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 24, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Gosh, Tesco never mentioned that in the letter.


 


quimcunx said:


> Gosh, Tesco never mentioned that in the letter.


 

As it seems you are one of the few people to have received the letter, I reckon you should photocopy it a few thousand times and deliver it locally


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 24, 2012)

It's occurred to me that The Telegraph is also within the Conservation Area, and whilst the exterior seems to be pretty uch the same (although I can't remember whtether the signage is there), not sure about the interior, now it's a churchy-type place


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## quimcunx (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm getting a bit para about it.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 24, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I'm getting a bit para about it.


 
why? 

That they targetted you?


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## quimcunx (Jul 24, 2012)

Why MEEEEEEEEEE?!!!!

Has someone else received the letter?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 24, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Why MEEEEEEEEEE?!!!!
> 
> Has someone else received the letter?


 
Because you're a shareholder 

I see Brixton Blog are asking for bands that played them to contact them.

Why don't they contact the bands themselves?

Here's two well known bands that played there occasionally:  Top Cats and Alabama 3

How about comedians?  You could ask Eddie Izzard, Jo Brand, Jack Dee etc. as they all used to perform there as well when the Comedy Pit night ran


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## leanderman (Jul 24, 2012)

Next to fall, I suspect, will be CarpetRight-Topps Tiles on Tulse Hill-Water Lane.

Just saw three 'suits' sizing up the car park and store frontage in a very suspicious way.


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## lang rabbie (Jul 25, 2012)

Rushy said:


> Is there such a thing as a conservation area consent application?
> Just a normal planning application with conservation area status as a consideration, I thought.
> Unless it is listed, in which case it requires listed building consent.
> It is not on Rush Common so won't need Rush Common consent.
> Happy to be corrected if this is wrong...


 
You are probably right.

The main planning application is likely to be for the changes to the parking layout.

However, conservation area consent is required to:

Demolish a building with a volume of greater than 115 cubic metres.

*Demolish a wall, fence, gate or railing over 1 metre in height next to a highway* (including a public footpath or bridleway) or public open space; or over 2 metres in height elsewhere.
So even though the current boundary walls around the George IV's former beer garden are barely a decade old, I suspect CA consent is needed for any replacement/new openings for vehicle entries.

Also, I think any new Tesco signage may require a separate "Advertisement consent" because it is within a conservation area.


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## quimcunx (Jul 25, 2012)

http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...7265AD250A77A22E361BA1613BF5?action=firstPage

This is the current application in for removing fences for parking. 

http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=M7GTW6BOHV000

Nothing about signage.  Though they mention that in their letter.   But above one only dated 20th July so will maybe appear soon. 



It is in a conservation area. 
http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...do?activeTab=constraints&keyVal=000BM5BOLI000


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## quimcunx (Jul 25, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Because you're a shareholder
> 
> I see Brixton Blog are asking for bands that played them to contact them.
> 
> ...


 
Because they don't know who the bands are???


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## quimcunx (Jul 26, 2012)

Am I still the only person who has had a letter about this?


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## shakespearegirl (Jul 27, 2012)

I've still not received anything.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 27, 2012)

shakespearegirl said:


> I've still not received anything.


 
Quimmy is privileged and we're not


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## quimcunx (Jul 28, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I've not had one yet


 
I'm not the only one to get a letter!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 28, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I'm not the only one to get a letter!


 
Who else has?


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## quimcunx (Jul 28, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Who else has?


 
My neighbour.  So presumably all my neighbours.  

I don't need to be paranoid!  Yay!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 28, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> My neighbour. So presumably all my neighbours.
> 
> I don't need to be paranoid! Yay!


 
What about your neighbours in the next block of flats?


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## quimcunx (Jul 28, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What about your neighbours in the next block of flats?


 
They don't count.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 28, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> They don't count.


 
Is that because they're peasants?


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## quimcunx (Jul 28, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Is that because they're peasants?


 
you'd have to ask tesco. I couldn't possibly comment.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 28, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> you'd have to ask tesco. I couldn't possibly comment.


 
They don't want to speak to commoners.   They want to speak to rich shareholders


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## lang rabbie (Jul 28, 2012)

70 signatures already (from @Brixtonite's Twitter followers ???) on this* ipetition*



> We are opposed to the George IV pub (currently known as Music Bar) on Brixton Hill becoming a Tesco. We don't want to lose another pub and we are concerned at the negative impact on local businesses. We call on the council to work with us to find a way to save this historic music venue, and to oppose further supermarket expansion in Brixton.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 28, 2012)

Signed


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## slcr (Jul 29, 2012)

Onket said:


> Can someone set up an online petition? Perhaps with links to template letters for people to send?
> 
> Is there actually any point?


 
Best way to object effectively to planning applications (from experience) is to give people instructions on the kinds of things they might put in a letter of objection, then get them to craft their own - has more sway with the people who make the decisions as they can see people really care enough to think about it and write in.


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## editor (Jul 29, 2012)

The only way to really save a pub is to take your custom there or get involved with events that might keep on bringing in the punters.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 29, 2012)

editor said:


> The only way to really save a pub is to take your custom there or get involved with events that might keep on bringing in the punters.


I agree but GIV is a difficult venue for anyone to manage.  It's big, awkward and who knows what massive rates it has to pay.

I've signed the petition, what more can we do ?  whose the councillor for that ward?


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## lang rabbie (Jul 29, 2012)

Steve Reed (leader of the Council), Florence Nosegbe and Alex Holland are the three councillors for Brixton Hill.

Lambeth councillor contact list

IIRC They took the side of the residents of the newly converted block when the Telegraph was challenged over noise nuisance.

So the great advantage to keeping the George IV as a music venue is that it isn't adjacent to residential neighbours to whom it could possibly be a nuisance. (Until somebody buys up the ATS site, claims it is "under-developed" and proposes a block of apartments there as well, that is. )


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## Badgers (Jul 29, 2012)

leanderman said:
			
		

> Next to fall, I suspect, will be CarpetRight-Topps Tiles on Tulse Hill-Water Lane.
> 
> Just saw three 'suits' sizing up the car park and store frontage in a very suspicious way.



It amazes me that it is still running. Lived over the road and so few people went in. I did once and it took me some time to find a very unhelpful member of staff. It is just an ugly building stealing a lot of space from the area. 

Shame really.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 29, 2012)

lang rabbie said:


> Steve Reed (leader of the Council), Florence Nosegbe and Alex Holland are the three councillors for Brixton Hill.
> 
> Lambeth councillor contact list
> 
> ...


 
I think I pulled Steve and asked him to look into supermarkets taking over everywhere but don't think there was a lot he could do about it 

I think I'm doing a Mrs Magpie 

It was Steve Bradley here:

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...s-of-brixton-road-north.269973/#post-10025500


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## lang rabbie (Jul 29, 2012)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I agree but GIV is a difficult venue for anyone to manage. It's big, awkward and who knows what massive rates it has to pay.


Rateable valuation is £35,250 (re-assessed in 2010), so I assume that isn't a million miles from what they were paying as actual annual rent to their landlords (plus the actual business rates bill at 45.8 pence in the pound of just over £16 grand).  Say sixty thousand a year/five thousand a month before you switch the lights on or employ any staff.


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## Onket (Jul 30, 2012)

lang rabbie said:


> 70 signatures already (from @Brixtonite's Twitter followers ???) on this* ipetition*


 
Signed and shared.


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## editor (Jul 30, 2012)

Much as I want the place to stay a pub, a petition signed by people who probably rarely set foot in the place really isn't going to save this venue.

It needs people to start using it. It needs locals to support it - and that's assuming that the owners are even interested in keeping the place going. 

Practically, some high profile gigs and community events would help in the short term (I'm happy to help here if I can be of any use), but it's also going to need people getting involved who know how to put on the kind of events that are likely to keep people coming in, month after month.

Perhaps some progress could be made on that front, new buyers may be get interested, although Tesco's fat wedge may prove irresistible to the current owner. 

This may provide some useful background and advice:



> *Save your local pub!*
> *Info, guides and useful links to help you save your local boozer*
> http://www.urban75.org/info/save-your-pub.html


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## Onket (Jul 30, 2012)

editor said:


> Much as I want the place to stay a pub, a petition signed by people who probably rarely set foot in the place really isn't going to save this venue.


 
It will raise awareness in the meantime, surely?


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## editor (Jul 30, 2012)

Onket said:


> It will raise awareness in the meantime, surely?


It's a start but I believe it will take more than that to stave off Tescos.

I think it needs a campaign with real world action - like some of the things listed here http://www.urban75.org/info/save-your-pub.html - and some sort of vision and business plan for why it should stay a pub and why it might become successful again.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

editor said:


> Much as I want the place to stay a pub, a petition signed by people who probably rarely set foot in the place really isn't going to save this venue.
> 
> It needs people to start using it. It needs locals to support it - and that's assuming that the owners are even interested in keeping the place going.


 
Isn't it a bit late for that?  

http://www.facebook.com/events/265798746853427/


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## Onket (Jul 30, 2012)

Oh, it's closed.


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## editor (Jul 30, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Isn't it a bit late for that?
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/events/265798746853427/


I'm guessing it hasn't actually been sold to Tescos yet, no?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

Onket said:


> Oh, it's closed.


 
Looks like it


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm guessing it hasn't actually been sold to Tescos yet, no?


 
No idea.  I've not received anything from Tesco in the post.  All I know is as much as was on that letter Quimmy got

Maybe Lang  Rabbie can get on to Lambeth's planning website.  I have trouble finding my way around it


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

All I can find is about the railings

http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=M7GTW6BOHV000


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## boohoo (Jul 30, 2012)

Although the bar has closed, it would be interesting to know if it is signed and sealed as being turned into a Tesco.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

boohoo said:


> Although the bar has closed, it would be interesting to know if it is signed and sealed as being turned into a Tesco.


 
How does one find out?


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## boohoo (Jul 30, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> How does one find out?


 
Don't know.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

boohoo said:


> Although the bar has closed, it would be interesting to know if it is signed and sealed as being turned into a Tesco.


 
Matt Magee seems very confident judging by last para in his letter


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## boohoo (Jul 30, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Matt Magee seems very confident judging by last para in his letter


 
It starts off sounding like they are thinking about it and finishes sounding like it will happen anyway.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

boohoo said:


> It starts off sounding like they are thinkig about it and finishes sounding like it will happen anyway.


 
Yeah, and who owns the pub anyway?  Were the music bar just leasing it?  I can't find that out.

Both George IV *and *coincidentally, the Russell Hotel used to be owned by the same company but I don't know whether they sold them off years ago.  Maybe it's that company who are selling the property to Tesco?


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## slcr (Jul 30, 2012)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I agree but GIV is a difficult venue for anyone to manage. It's big, awkward and who knows what massive rates it has to pay.
> 
> I've signed the petition, what more can we do ? whose the councillor for that ward?


Write a letter.  The people who decide planning things are humans - they will be more swayed by a letter than an online petition signature.


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## slcr (Jul 30, 2012)

editor said:


> The only way to really save a pub is to take your custom there or get involved with events that might keep on bringing in the punters.


Fair enough ed, but I was talking about objections to the Tesco plan, signage etc, not objections to any non-pub related planning.


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## editor (Jul 30, 2012)

slcr said:


> Fair enough ed, but I was talking about objections to the Tesco plan, signage etc, not objections to any non-pub related planning.


To be honest, I'm far more concerned about losing a pub forever than Tesco setting up shop there.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 30, 2012)

editor said:


> To be honest, I'm far more concerned about losing a pub forever than Tesco setting up shop there.


Exactly, pubs never return once converted, it's irreversible.


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## fortyplus (Jul 30, 2012)

Losing a pub is always a shame, and the GeorgeIV has a special place in the addled memories of many middle-aged Brixtonians, including mine. Its heyday was a long time ago. Successive refurbs have failed to exploit its potential and I haven't had a belter of a night or early morning there this century. It descended into a k-hole, was eclipsed by the Telegraph, and emerged run by arsey management employing security who always seemed determined to stop you having fun. Young people only know its greatness by its reputation as the home of Basement Jaxx. The last time I had the energy to go out dancing much (before I became a trader in the Granville), a stroll along the Water Lane to the George Canning was always a better bet than a walk up the hill.
For me, the George IV was lost a long time ago. But I strongly object to YAFT, so I've signed the petition.


----------



## boohoo (Jul 30, 2012)

Nearly 500 signatures!

The councillor for Brixton Hill is Steve Reed.


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## nagapie (Jul 30, 2012)

Steve Reed loves Tesco, and so it will be.


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## fortyplus (Jul 30, 2012)

boohoo said:


> Nearly 500 signatures!
> 
> The councillor for Brixton Hill is Steve Reed.


Doesn't bode well; he was Tesco's patsy-in-chief, with Sally Prentice, one of my councillors in Ferndale ward, as his sidekick  in the stitchup over the ice-rink/car-park.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Losing a pub is always a shame, and the GeorgeIV has a special place in the addled memories of many middle-aged Brixtonians, including mine.


 
You've made me feel old now


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 3, 2012)

It would seem the pub's last day is this Sunday 

I thought it had already closed, but then saw it open, so that website was a bit confusing


----------



## ska invita (Aug 3, 2012)

Just saw this thread for the first - fck. Cant they open their tescos in commercial properties not in pubs? Should be a law against it.


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## Winot (Aug 4, 2012)

According to Mrs Winot who knows a bit about planning:

- Planning permission to convert from a pub to a convenience store was granted in 1998.

- The current planning application is about changes to appearance.

- Sign the e-petition by all means but the only thing that will really make a difference is to write to object (you can do this online).


----------



## el-ahrairah (Aug 6, 2012)

boohoo said:


> The councillor for Brixton Hill is Steve Reed.


 
How does that man remain elected?  Not a single person who knows his name has anything nice to say about him.  He's a shameless petty bourgeois nu-labour nobcheese.


----------



## editor (Aug 7, 2012)

Here's a template to lodge an objection. Reword is a bit so it's not an identical copy!


> The planning reference number is 12/02757/FUL
> 
> All objections should be sent to planning@lambeth.gov.ukquoting the reference above.
> 
> ...


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## quimcunx (Aug 8, 2012)

does this mean the deadline for objections is this Thursday? 

http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...tails.do?activeTab=dates&keyVal=M7GTW6BOHV000


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## slcr (Aug 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's a template to lodge an objection. Reword is a bit so it's not an identical copy!


Also worth mentioning it's within the Rush Common and Brixton Hill conservation area per Lambeth's document CA49  http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...0D772D2091/0/CA49RushCommonandBrixtonHill.pdf


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## slcr (Aug 13, 2012)

Knocked this off quite quickly but hope it's helpful to anyone else who is wondering what kind of letter to write.


Dear Lambeth

I am writing to voice my objections to the application for the formation of carparking on the hardstanding area in front of the current George IV pub, and the removal of fencing.

I am a resident in nearby [  ] and have lived here for six and a half years.

The George IV is within the Rush Common and Brixton Hill Conservation area (http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...0D772D2091/0/CA49RushCommonandBrixtonHill.pdf).  I think the addition of the proposed area of car-parking would intrinsically damage the character of the area, making it appear more built-up than it is presently and therefore would fail to protect the area's character.  As noted in the 1997 appraisal of this conservation area, the frontage alongside that part of the hill is of special interest and "exerts a fundamental impact on the character of the 200 year old Rush Common".  (http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...320FA/0/RushCommonAndBrixtonHillAppraisal.pdf)

The special character of the George IV itself is noted in the appraisal as "the splendid George IV public house - a late Victorian extravaganza with charming ironwork, stone balustrades and a jolly copper-clad turret topped by a flying seagull weathervane".  I feel very strongly that if the application is granted and carparking is created outside the property, this will amount to intrusion and damage to the area's - and that specific building's - special character, amounting to crude and insensitive alteration, i.e. the kind of adaptation which that report lamented - for example on pages 25 and 26.

Further, I object on the basis that it will have an obviously detrimental impact on the flow of traffic around the area and particularly on the bus routes.  I am a user of buses down Brixton Hill and the area is already subject to heavy traffic at several times of day.  The addition of this car park will cause disruption and delay as cars turn into, and move out of, the car park and I have related safety fears.

Finally, I think it is very sad that this property apparently has planning permission to be turned into a convenience store.  There are already 2 Sainsbury's locals on that stretch of the hill, a new newsagent just near Poleo Dry Cleaners, and numerous other newsagents such as Nisa which have been there for years.  We really don't need any more convenience stores, but we do need our classic, old pubs.

Please refuse this planning application.

Yours sincerely
etc


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## ffsear (Aug 31, 2012)

How many of you actually sported it when it was a pub by drinking in there a couple of times a month?

No?

Didn't think so! -  

It may as well be a tesco then!


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## snowy_again (Aug 31, 2012)

1/10 for effort.


----------



## shifting gears (Aug 31, 2012)

ffsear said:


> How many of you actually sported it when it was a pub by drinking in there a couple of times a month?
> 
> No?
> 
> ...



Hello and welcome! 

Now fuck off you thick twat.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Aug 31, 2012)

ffsear said:


> It may as well be a tesco then!


Nah, might as well be something more interesting or useful, if it'll no longer be a pub.


----------



## twistedAM (Aug 31, 2012)

ffsear said:


> How many of you actually sported it when it was a pub by drinking in there a couple of times a month?
> 
> No?
> 
> ...


 
I drank in there more in the past ten years than going to any branch of shitey Tescos.

The food is rubbish; worst of the major chains by far (and I even include Iceland in that).


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## Rushy (Aug 31, 2012)

I was usually too twatted to drink in George IV. I blame myself.


----------



## shifting gears (Aug 31, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> I drank in there more in the past ten years than going to any branch of shitey Tescos.
> 
> The food is rubbish; worst of the major chains by far (and I even include Iceland in that).



And regardless of the above, for someone to break their posting duck with such an inane, short-sighted load of crap - clearly not considering the wider implications for the area - marks them out as a bit of a tit. 

Here's some food for thought: does the area need another tesco's? Do you think local, independent grocers/convenience store owners etc would welcome more competition from a supermarket chain that puts more small businesses out of action than any other? Or did this and other issues never occur to you before you hit 'post'? 

Maybe you're just too lazy to walk to acre lane and go to the GIGANTIC tesco's there? 

Of course Brixton has a bustling market only 2 mins away, where the majority of the produce is not only cheaper, but of better quality than that of tesco's. But don't let that bother you.

'Might as well be a tesco's then.' FFS


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 31, 2012)

ffsear said:


> How many of you actually sported it when it was a pub by drinking in there a couple of times a month?
> 
> No?
> 
> ...


 
I did occasionally, but considering it was impossible to know what time it ever planned on opening, made it a bit difficult.  They fucked it up by inconsistent opening times as far as I'm concerned.  Went past at 5.00pm plenty of times and it was still shut


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 31, 2012)

Their black mouldy loos weren't too appealing either

and I think they were also the most expensive pub on Brixton Hill.  Nowhere else charges £2.00 for a 1/2 pint of Fosters.   Most pubs charge £1.70


----------



## ffsear (Sep 1, 2012)

shifting gears said:


> And regardless of the above, for someone to break their posting duck with such an inane, short-sighted load of crap - clearly not considering the wider implications for the area - marks them out as a bit of a tit.
> 
> Here's some food for thought: does the area need another tesco's? Do you think local, independent grocers/convenience store owners etc would welcome more competition from a supermarket chain that puts more small businesses out of action than any other? Or did this and other issues never occur to you before you hit 'post'?
> 
> ...


 

How is what I said short sighted? Yea, a building that is practically derelict becoming something that serves the local area and provides jobs for locals also? Yea, how stupid am I? I'm guessing yoru anoter one of these claphamnite wankers who thinks he a real brixton community boy by drinking in the Gran Union every Saturday.!! Serrioulsly

No I dont want to see another Tesco. But i'd rather see a tesco then nothing at all. That part of Brixton hill practically has no shops, and you can't count of the likes of shitty outfits such as NISA local to provide, their just as bad if not worse.

Get out an physically support your local shops/pubs etc, or expect them to be taken over by these corporations. Moaning about it on internet forums won't change shit! We're all to blame


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 1, 2012)

ffsear said:


> That part of Brixton hill practically has no shops, and you can't count of the likes of shitty outfits such as NISA local to provide, their just as bad if not worse.


 
You what?!


----------



## shifting gears (Sep 1, 2012)

ffsear said:


> How is what I said short sighted? Yea, a building that is practically derelict becoming something that serves the local area and provides jobs for locals also? Yea, how stupid am I? I'm guessing yoru anoter one of these claphamnite wankers who thinks he a real brixton community boy by drinking in the Gran Union every Saturday.!! Serrioulsly
> 
> No I dont want to see another Tesco. But i'd rather see a tesco then nothing at all. That part of Brixton hill practically has no shops, and you can't count of the likes of shitty outfits such as NISA local to provide, their just as bad if not worse.
> 
> Get out an physically support your local shops/pubs etc, or expect them to be taken over by these corporations. Moaning about it on internet forums won't change shit! We're all to blame



Fuckin joker. 

I've lived in Brixton 9 years, and I've never set foot in grand fucking union. 

And the new sainsburys local is miles away from the site in question, isn't it? That is, if you're a lazy, good for nothing shit, with no interest in local community. 

Now fuck off you trolling cunt.


----------



## bluestreak (Sep 4, 2012)

i got a letter from the government the other day, opened it, read it, it said that chuka is holding a "people's question time on proposed tesco expresse".  friday 14th september, 6pm, corpus christi church hall, 11 trent road sw2 5bj.

a rep from tesco will allegedly be there, as will cllr nosegbe.  i will probably pop along myself, see what sort of whitewash they come up with.


----------



## lefteri (Sep 5, 2012)

ffsear said:


> How is what I said short sighted? Yea, a building that is practically derelict becoming something that serves the local area and provides jobs for locals also? Yea, how stupid am I? I'm guessing yoru anoter one of these claphamnite wankers who thinks he a real brixton community boy by drinking in the Gran Union every Saturday.!! Serrioulsly
> 
> No I dont want to see another Tesco. But i'd rather see a tesco then nothing at all. That part of Brixton hill practically has no shops, and you can't count of the likes of shitty outfits such as NISA local to provide, their just as bad if not worse.
> 
> Get out an physically support your local shops/pubs etc, or expect them to be taken over by these corporations. Moaning about it on internet forums won't change shit! We're all to blame


 
Nisa is fine, a decent shop and a useful post office

practically derelict?? it was in use until a few weeks ago as quite a smart bar

sorry was this a serious post or a joke / troll?


----------



## Rushy (Sep 5, 2012)

lefteri said:


> Nisa is fine, a decent shop and a useful post office
> 
> practically derelict?? it was in use until a few weeks ago as quite a smart bar
> 
> sorry was this a serious post or a joke / troll?


Can't tell you how relieved I was to find that post office after years of braving Ferndale Road.
Never used the supermarket though.


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## Onket (Sep 5, 2012)

I also use the NISA shop often. mainly for Post Office related stuff.


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## lefteri (Sep 5, 2012)

the supermarket's quite good, for its size - the post office never has a queue if you go just before 5


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## Onket (Sep 5, 2012)

The queue is only ever 3 people, maximum anyway.


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## quimcunx (Sep 5, 2012)

I like Nisa and use it a fair bit.    I'm experimenting with posh coffees just now and so far one I get in there is nicer than any I've bought in M&S or Sainsburys. 

I haven't been to the George VI in its various reincarnations that often but I have been there a few times over the years.  I don't spend much time in pubs generally though.  If  a Tesco opens it will be my nearest shop but I'd still choose Nisa or the shop up from me over it for most of my local shopping.


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## Brixton Hatter (Sep 5, 2012)

bluestreak said:


> *i got a letter from the government the other day, opened it, read it, it said that chuka* is holding a "people's question time on proposed tesco expresse". friday 14th september, 6pm, corpus christi church hall, 11 trent road sw2 5bj.
> 
> a rep from tesco will allegedly be there, as will cllr nosegbe. i will probably pop along myself, see what sort of whitewash they come up with.


Nice 

I doubt Tesco will bother to turn up though - they didn't turn up to the public meeting about the Brixton Road Tesco. And you can be sure Chuka will hedge his bets too...as soon as the coalition gets voted out, Chuka will be business secretary and Tesco will be one of the first through the doors of his office for a cosy chat...


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## slcr (Sep 5, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I like Nisa and use it a fair bit. I'm experimenting with posh coffees just now and so far one I get in there is nicer than any I've bought in M&S or Sainsburys.


 
Fellow coffee fan - which coffee is that?


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## quimcunx (Sep 5, 2012)

Not really. New to it. It's a union one. But I seem to chop and change a bit.


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## nagapie (Sep 5, 2012)

Nisa stock a few of the Union ones and they're good. Nisa's a really good local shop.


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## bluestreak (Sep 7, 2012)

yep, and they've been kind enough to give me tic a couple of times when my card has maxed out.  thems good people whose livelihoods need defending.


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## duncanlaw (Sep 8, 2012)

There is a meeting today, Saturday 8th to coordinate a campaign. Join us at 11am at the White Horse, enter through side door in alley. Preferably text me first so we know to expect you and that you're not a Tesco stooge. 07958 635181.

Bring ideas, contacts, images, slogans, willingness to do some legwork canvassing local businesses and residents, bloodymindedness, money and whatever else you think might be useful.

This could be won. Stop Tescos carpet bombing our local independent economy.


----------



## shifting gears (Sep 8, 2012)

duncanlaw said:


> There is a meeting today, Saturday 8th to coordinate a campaign. Join us at 11am at the White Horse, enter through side door in alley. Preferably text me first so we know to expect you and that you're not a Tesco stooge. 07958 635181.
> 
> Bring ideas, contacts, images, slogans, willingness to do some legwork canvassing local businesses and residents, bloodymindedness, money and whatever else you think might be useful.
> 
> This could be won. Stop Tescos carpet bombing our local independent economy.



Good luck with this - cant make it due to work but hope it goes well. 

For what it's worth I saw 3 men, this morning (Friday morning), in deep conversation outside the bar, in the 'barbecue' area. They had a definite 'building contractor' vibe about them, for my money.


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 10, 2012)

hi Duncan, i only just saw your post.  any chance of a brief as to how it went down? 




duncanlaw said:


> There is a meeting today, Saturday 8th to coordinate a campaign. Join us at 11am at the White Horse, enter through side door in alley. Preferably text me first so we know to expect you and that you're not a Tesco stooge. 07958 635181.
> 
> Bring ideas, contacts, images, slogans, willingness to do some legwork canvassing local businesses and residents, bloodymindedness, money and whatever else you think might be useful.
> 
> This could be won. Stop Tescos carpet bombing our local independent economy.


----------



## madolesance (Sep 10, 2012)

Work seems to have already began. Their not hanging about.


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## brucenbart (Sep 10, 2012)

madolesance said:


> Work seems to have already began. Their not hanging about.


 
There were a couple of guys with high viz vests going in at 7.30 this am. Its a real pity that this lovely building is going to be a friggin Tescos. Its a shame that its last two pub/club incarnations have been shite, with the building and location surely it could have a future as something other a convenience store? I will not be shopping there


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## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

The biggest shame really is that the previous owners weren't savvy enough to put on events that would make the place a viable music venue/club/whatever.

We trekked up there once for a four band bill on a night that was supposedly going on till 2am and all the bands had finished by 1020pm!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 10, 2012)

There's men in hard hats on the roof of the George IV


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 10, 2012)

fucksake


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## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

Oh, and a big part of the pub's demise also has to be blamed on the insane prices that pubs are forced to charge for beer while punters can just pop down to their local supermarket and buy a barrel of lager for next to nothing.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 10, 2012)

The George IV was about the most expensive pub in Brixton for half a pint of shit Fosters


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## han (Sep 10, 2012)

So, it's already started then. :-( 

Use the only thing these corporations care about, your money, and spend it elsewhere. No amount of chains in Brixton has stopped me from buying all my fruit and veg from the grocer's on New Pk Rd, also fruit, veg, tins of beans etc etc from Noor, where I can buy almost everything else I need. The only thing I use supermarkets for is wine and meat.


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 10, 2012)

are there flats above it?  they keep building these new supermarkets in occupied buildings, presumably to prevent people like us burning them out.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 10, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> The George IV was about the most expensive pub in Brixton for half a pint of shit Fosters


 
Where would you go for half a pint of non-shit Fosters?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 10, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Where would you go for half a pint of non-shit Fosters?


 
Well I just say "shit" as most people consider it shit.  It's what I drink myself 

It was £2 there though, compared to £1.70 or £1.80 everywhere else up this end of the Hill


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## twistedAM (Sep 12, 2012)

Drove past there tonight and there were several freight containers in the front yard (the type they use on ships, lorries that can also double up as storage/work cabins).


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## kittyP (Sep 12, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> There's men in hard hats on the roof of the George IV


 
I thought this when I went past today. Looks like building work is going on.....?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 12, 2012)

Yep, they were there yesterday except there was only two of them. There's now three. I took a picture earlier

View attachment 23002


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## twistedAM (Sep 12, 2012)

Shit. There were a couple of things in that front yard I wanted to recycle.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 12, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Shit. There were a couple of things in that front yard I wanted to recycle.



Like what?  The tables were already gone


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## twistedAM (Sep 12, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Like what? The tables were already gone


 
MYOB
In the meantime though I need to speak to one of the girls that lives there so might ave some gossip for you.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 12, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> MYOB
> In the meantime though I need to speak to one of the girls that lives there so might ave some gossip for you.


 
Some nice heat lamps for the Windy?


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## bluestreak (Sep 12, 2012)

well, at the pointless shouting match on friday at least we can successfully argue that they had no intention of consultation and that the whole thing was an exercise in fobbing off.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 12, 2012)

Lots of builders in there today.  Filled up one of those freights containers already

Surprised to see nobody on top of them seeing what they could liberate


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## Brixton Hatter (Sep 13, 2012)

Did anyone go to the meeting on Saturday? I couldn't make it unfortunately...


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## Brixton Hatter (Sep 14, 2012)

BUMP: meeting tonight at 6pm (in 40 minutes!!) at Corpus Cristi Church on Brixton Hill/Trent Road.

Tesco are supposed to turn up, but I bet they won't.


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## Winot (Sep 14, 2012)

According to Brixton Blog on Twitter, they are there.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 14, 2012)

I thought this was Saturday


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 14, 2012)

Matt is a Twat

Following on twitter.  The Tesco guy sounds like a right arsehole


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 14, 2012)

> *SaveGeorgeIV* ‏@*SaveGeorgeIV*
> Matt's finished up by pleading to be allowed to leave safely. I'm not making this up!


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## quimcunx (Sep 15, 2012)

Couldn't do either meeting.  Here's a run down of the Friday night one. 

http://storify.com/SaveGeorgeIV/bri...er&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_campaign=


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## lefteri (Sep 17, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Couldn't do either meeting. Here's a run down of the Friday night one.


 
looks quite an encouraging result judging from the turnout, Ummuna's summing up and the fact that the council have taken enforcement steps


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## Disappointed (Sep 18, 2012)

Boycott Tesco Acre Lane.
The ‘Stop Tesco Express Brixton Hill’ meeting at Corpus Christi Community Hall (Friday 14th) wasn't exactly what had been rumoured. Sadly, there were only around 150 people there (I guess having the meeting on a Friday evening wasn't such a good idea). Some important points were voiced. But at the end of the meeting, when asked by our MP, the vast majority of people there were honest enough to admit that, despite being anti-Tesco Brixton Hill, they already shop at the Tesco Super Store in Acre Lane!!
To those, and to all those who signed the petition against the opening of the Tesco Express, can I suggest that you vote with you feet and your pockets, cut up your Tesco points card and not shop at Tesco Acre Lane anymore. We have a choice. For example there is a Lidl a bit further along Acre Lane. (I’ve been doing my weekly shop for years).
Anything you can’t buy at Lidl can be bought at our local independent stores. Also, some of the 150 people at the meeting didn’t even seem to be aware that there are, not one – but 2 convenience stores, a men’s hairdresser, Post Office (with free to use cash machine) launderette, art shop and The Elm traditional pub at Elm Park Parade- half way along Elm Park at the top of Leander Road – less than 500 yards from where the Tesco Express will be.
If you couldn't make the meeting there is some good news. Planning permission to create a car park at the front of the pub has been declined.


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## fortyplus (Sep 18, 2012)

Thank you, Disappointed - but to reiterate, it is not just Tesco Acre Lane. For every penny you spend in a Tesco anywhere, whether it's the garage on Tulse Hill, on New Park Road or even further afield, your soul will rot in hell for an eternity. This is a true fact.


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## twistedAM (Sep 18, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Thank you, Disappointed - but to reiterate, it is not just Tesco Acre Lane. For every penny you spend in a Tesco anywhere, whether it's the garage on Tulse Hill, on New Park Road or even further afield, your soul will rot in hell for an eternity. This is a true fact.


 
I forgot about the Tescraps on Tulse Hill and South Circ. There's also ones on Croxted Rd and Crown Hill.
I keep forgetting about them as I never shop at Tescrap.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 18, 2012)

Disappointed said:


> Also, some of the 150 people at the meeting didn’t even seem to be aware that there are, not one – but 2 convenience stores, a men’s hairdresser, Post Office (with free to use cash machine) launderette, art shop and The Elm traditional pub at Elm Park Parade- half way along Elm Park at the top of Leander Road – less than 500 yards from where the Tesco Express will be.


 
Maybe, but Elm Park Dairies closes early, and the other one doesn't sell newspapers.  I wanted mushrooms last night, but neither shop had them.


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## twistedAM (Sep 18, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Maybe, but Elm Park Dairies closes early, and the other one doesn't sell newspapers. I wanted mushrooms last night, but neither shop had them.


 
Is it such a long walk down to Sainsburys and the other shops on that strip that are even closer?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 18, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Is it such a long walk down to Sainsburys and the other shops on that strip that are even closer?


 
I would have gone to Nisa over Sainsburys


----------



## twistedAM (Sep 18, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I would have gone to Nisa over Sainsburys


 
For fresh veg??? It never seems properly priced so if they can't be arsed pricing it I can't be arsed buying it.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 18, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> For fresh veg??? It never seems properly priced so if they can't be arsed pricing it I can't be arsed buying it.


 
No, but if it was just for mushrooms (ie. one item), I'm not going to Sainsbury's just for mushrooms.  I'll end up coming out with cream cakes and other stuff


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## twistedAM (Sep 18, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> No, but if it was just for mushrooms (ie. one item), I'm not going to Sainsbury's just for mushrooms. I'll end up coming out with cream cakes and other stuff


 
Ha ha. I'm the same. I do a Homer and think "wow that's on offer so I must buy it". Often NISA have run out of their offers 
My regular shop aka the Phone Guy's on the corner of Blenheim gardens does  cakes. They're 101% artificial but somehow taste nice.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 18, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Ha ha. I'm the same. I do a Homer and think "wow that's on offer so I must buy it". Often NISA have run out of their offers
> My regular shop aka the Phone Guy's on the corner of Blenheim gardens does cakes. They're 101% artificial but somehow taste nice.


 
Yeah, I've had their "cream" cakes before and my first thought was that the cream had been squirted out of a can 

I wonder if *anyone *ever uses that newish shop near Poleo?  (The old Bazaar Bazaar)


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## Onket (Sep 18, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> My regular shop aka the Phone Guy's on the corner of Blenheim gardens does cakes. They're 101% artificial but somehow taste nice.


 
I'm going to have to try this place now, you bugger.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 18, 2012)

Onket said:


> I'm going to have to try this place now, you bugger.


 
It's bouncy so be aware when you bounce it may not be because you're pissed but that the floors are dodgy


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## twistedAM (Sep 18, 2012)

Onket said:


> I'm going to have to try this place now, you bugger.


 
Actually it's quite a well stocked shop in some ways and cheaper than NISA on its staples of soft drinks and confectionary. Booze is probably cheaper too and it carries some things like demerara sugar that the bigger shops don't.
I also suspect they have sourced the cheapest phonecards for calling Pakistan.


----------



## lefteri (Sep 18, 2012)

where's the art shop?


----------



## Greebo (Sep 18, 2012)

lefteri said:


> where's the art shop?


To the right of the post office, one or two doors along.


----------



## slcr (Sep 18, 2012)

"On Friday I held another of my People's Question Time events. For those of you haven't been to one before, I hold People's Question Time sessions to ensure that when the community feels strongly about a particular issue, our voice is heard loud and clear by those in power making the decisions that affect us. This question time was focused on Tesco's plan to open a store on the site of the old George IV pub/music bar.
I am not against having supermarkets in our area; I know many people make good use of the supermarkets we already have and Tesco in particular have made a significant contribution to our area through the Streatham Hub.

However, my conclusion after hearing from everyone attending the meeting, and from those who have written to me on this issue, was that there is little support or need for another chain express supermarket in the locality. I will be writing to the Tesco Chief Executive to make clear the strong views expressed at the meeting and I will publish any response received on on my website."

... I don't know why it won't let me make all the text a legible colour, but: thought I'd post: just got it in my email.


----------



## quimcunx (Sep 18, 2012)

> and Tesco in particular have made a significant contribution to our area through the Streatham Hub.


 
Fuck off, have they!


----------



## fortyplus (Sep 18, 2012)

slcr said:


> "On Friday I held another of my People's Question Time events. For those of you haven't been to one before, I hold People's Question Time sessions to ensure  Tesco in particular have made a significant contribution to our area through the Streatham Hub.


Quimcunx put it more succinctly. They might have done had they adhered to their original S.106 agreement, but they reneged on that and our feeble (the most charitable explanation) councillors Reed and Prentice rolled over for them, condemning Central Brixton as a shopping zone to a slow death. Gentrification will wither if the diversity dies. 

It was an appalling - but all too familiar - case of a big corporation crushing democracy with lies and broken promises. Promise the earth, get Council backing, plead "changing economic circumstances", renege on promises, ignore local interests.  Penny to a pound they'll renege on the promise to relocate the "temporary" ice-rink too, after all, they can always plead "changing economic circumstances" again, can't they? 

They are corporate bullies and put up well-funded lawyers against whom Lambeth stood little chance.  But popular campaigns scare councillors into showing some spine, so max credit is due to the organisers of the Save George IV campaign.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 20, 2012)

It's gutted.   Spoke to a builder there today, confirmed cellar was staying but agreed with me that it will never become a pub again.

Had quite a chat with him and seemed like a nice guy.  Shame he's working for Tesco.  Won't say any more as don't want to get him into trouble.  It'll be a while (ie. months rather than weeks) before it opens.


----------



## quimcunx (Sep 20, 2012)

What's going to happen to the windows and ironwork?   

It's quite an unusual building really.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 20, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> What's going to happen to the windows and ironwork?
> 
> It's quite an unusual building really.


 
Oh, windows are staying by the sounds of it.  Was pleased about that as I'd heard that a lot of parts of that pub were supposedly listed, although whether that was true or not, I have no idea as when it was taken over years ago, the bar was ripped out.  I heard the doors leading to the back room were listed as well but they probably aren't.


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 20, 2012)

oh this is really sad... had some great nights in there (admittedly quite a few years ago now) - never thought it would go.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 20, 2012)

Asked him about other jobs and he said Tesco had nabbed a pub in Cornwall, not sure how recently that was.

Would be interesting to see exactly how many pubs they've bought up though


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 20, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Thank you, Disappointed - but to reiterate, it is not just Tesco Acre Lane. For every penny you spend in a Tesco anywhere, whether it's the garage on Tulse Hill, on New Park Road or even further afield, your soul will rot in hell for an eternity. This is a true fact.


 
I stopped using Tesco in Acre lane after the Ice Rink saga. There are other shops. As well as the ones mentioned for cheap shopping there is also Iceland , Poundland and the 99p shops. There is no need to use Tescos in Acre lane. The small local ones are also not cheap. Like Sainsburys local small ones they only stock the more pricey lines. No more cheap than my local newsagent for bread and milk etc.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 20, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> I stopped using Tesco in Acre lane after the Ice Rink saga. There are other shops. As well as the ones mentioned for cheap shopping there is also Iceland , Poundland and the 99p shops. There is no need to use Tescos in Acre lane. The small local ones are also not cheap. Like Sainsburys local small ones they only stock the more pricey lines. No more cheap than my local newsagent for bread and milk etc.


 
Yep, they're a rip off


----------



## goldenecitrone (Sep 22, 2012)

fuck. What a place to wander into on a Saturday afternoon. without tuna sandwiches.


----------



## twistedAM (Sep 22, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Asked him about other jobs and he said Tesco had nabbed a pub in Cornwall, not sure how recently that was.
> 
> Would be interesting to see exactly how many pubs they've bought up though


 
Well theres the one on Brixton Rd and theres one in Crown Point.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 22, 2012)

I checked. Not listed.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 22, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I checked. Not listed.


 
What's not listed?  Oh, do you mean parts of the George?

Was probably a way for the landlord to try to get a load of money off one of the customers once who broke a window (by claiming it was listed)


----------



## John Brixton (Sep 23, 2012)

An old picture of G4 I discovered when doing some research:

Collage Record: 88494
http://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/collage/app?service=external/Item&sp=Zgeorge brixton&sp=90769&sp=X

Any others people could send me would be appreciated!

If anyone has facts with references to support the Wikipeda article, it would be great. For example, see the Talk page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_IV,_Brixton


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 23, 2012)

John Brixton said:


> Some old pictures of G4 I discovered when doing some research:
> 
> www.flickr.com/georgeivbrixtonuk
> 
> ...


 
The Wiki article's been changed and I can't be arsed to read it.

Anything on here you haven't got already?

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-tesco-comes-to-brixton.296580/#post-11365993


----------



## John Brixton (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks, will look... any Quo stuff would be great too... pictures of them there etc...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 23, 2012)

John Brixton said:


> Thanks, will look... any Quo stuff would be great too... pictures of them there etc...


 
What are you doing it for anyway, just out of curiosity?


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 23, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Well theres the one on Brixton Rd and theres one in Crown Point.


 
and one down the bottom in W. Norwood next to the cemetry - used to be Jack Stamps...

was the one in Crown Point really a pub before?


----------



## twistedAM (Sep 23, 2012)

gaijingirl said:


> and one down the bottom in W. Norwood next to the cemetry - used to be Jack Stamps...
> 
> was the one in Crown Point really a pub before?


 
Yeah. I forget it's name though. Was only in there once.
Forgot about Jack Stamps.


----------



## John Brixton (Sep 24, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What are you doing it for anyway, just out of curiosity?


Just hoping to prevent inappropriate development by recording online as many details of buildings as possible ...


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 24, 2012)

gaijingirl said:


> and one down the bottom in W. Norwood next to the cemetry - used to be Jack Stamps...
> 
> was the one in Crown Point really a pub before?


The Great Tesco Takeover of Pubs - list them here


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 24, 2012)

gaijingirl said:


> and one down the bottom in W. Norwood next to the cemetry - used to be Jack Stamps...
> 
> was the one in Crown Point really a pub before?


 
Was going to mention that one as drove past it yesterday and thought I must add that to the list!

Can never remember what its name was before Jack Stamps


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 24, 2012)

Remembered, something Aldwinkles?


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 24, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Was going to mention that one as drove past it yesterday and thought I must add that to the list!
> 
> Can never remember what its name was before Jack Stamps


 
It was The Thurlow Arms


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 24, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> It was The Thurlow Arms


 
ah, that's it!


----------



## Boudicca (Oct 26, 2012)

Been squatted according to Brixton Blog:

http://www.brixtonblog.com/squatter...inst-tesco-occupying-george-iv-music-bar/7774


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

How did they get in, and I wonder what residents above think about it


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 26, 2012)

Boudicca said:


> Been squatted according to Brixton Blog:
> 
> http://www.brixtonblog.com/squatter...inst-tesco-occupying-george-iv-music-bar/7774


So Brixton Blog is advertising squat parties now!! They've come a long way....


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 26, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> How did they get in


Through an open window, carelessly left open by the builders


----------



## Badgers (Oct 26, 2012)

Pleasing


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Through an open window, carelessly left open by the builders


 
Haven't seen the builders there for a while and not seen any open windows.

Maybe they got in through the cellar? 

Although they'd then have to come up the steps and get access back into the bar unless they're's another way of accessing it


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

oh



> The group, called Rage Against Tesco (RAT), entered *the ground floor of the building last weekend*, one of them told the Brixton Blog today.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

I noticed the shutter on the old front door has been daubed with graffiti


----------



## paolo (Oct 26, 2012)

This has made my day.

There's a minority of nimby cunt (x1) in Josephine Avenue that *hates* squatting and *hates* the George IV conversion.

He's going to be popping rivets.


----------



## twistedAM (Oct 26, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Haven't seen the builders there for a while and not seen any open windows.
> 
> Maybe they got in through the cellar?
> 
> Although they'd then have to come up the steps and get access back into the bar unless they're's another way of accessing it


 
You think too much.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> You think too much.


 
No, it's just that I was standing opposite it yesterday at bus stop and having a good look and didn't notice any open windows


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

paolo said:


> This has made my day.
> 
> There's a minority of nimby cunt (x1) in Josephine Avenue that *hates* squatting and *hates* the George IV conversion.
> 
> He's going to be popping rivets.


 


I read recently that a job centre in Brixton has been squatted by prostitutes.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 26, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I read recently that a job centre in Brixton has been squatted by prostitutes.


 
On Josephine Avenue? They don't look like prostitutes


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

leanderman said:


> On Josephine Avenue? They don't look like prostitutes


 
It didn't say where, but I figured that's where they were talking about.  Was a favourite prostitute hang-out until they blocked the road off to kerb crawlers


----------



## RaverDrew (Oct 26, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> So Brixton Blog is advertising squat parties now!! They've come a long way....


 It's ALL false information, there are NO plans whatsoever to have a party in George IV, some people are VERY angry and upset with Brixton Blog and would like to know where they got their information from ? That's all I am saying for now.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 26, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> It didn't say where, but I figured that's where they were talking about. Was a favourite prostitute hang-out until they blocked the road off to kerb crawlers


 
not seen any prostitutes there for ages


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

leanderman said:


> not seen any prostitutes there for ages



I did say "until they blocked the road off to kerb crawlers"


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

Hilarious. Just found it on Digital Spy. I actually read it in The Mirror though.



> Prostitutes in South London have been using a former Jobcentre with clients.
> 
> The empty building in Brixton has become a popular spot for the women to offer their services to customers, _The Sun_ reports.
> 
> ...


 
So what other Job Centres in Brixton have recently closed down as Josephine Avenue one's been shut longer than that hasn't it?


----------



## colacubes (Oct 26, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> It's ALL false information, there are NO plans whatsoever to have a party in George IV, some people are VERY angry and upset with Brixton Blog and would like to know where they got their information from ? That's all I am saying for now.


 
Really?  I did think it was a bit weird that a squat party was being so blatantly put out there...


----------



## RaverDrew (Oct 26, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Really? I did think it was a bit weird that a squat party was being so blatantly put out there...


 
I notice they've edited their article since I posted


----------



## colacubes (Oct 26, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I notice they've edited their article since I posted


 
So they have


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> It's ALL false information, there are NO plans whatsoever to have a party in George IV, some people are VERY angry and upset with Brixton Blog and would like to know where they got their information from ? That's all I am saying for now.


Ouch!


----------



## twistedAM (Oct 26, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> It's ALL false information, there are NO plans whatsoever to have a party in George IV, some people are VERY angry and upset with Brixton Blog and would like to know where they got their information from ? That's all I am saying for now.


 
Yeah I was surprised. I was told from a good source that the squatters were really nice and doing it as a political protest against Tescrap.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 26, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Hilarious. Just found it on Digital Spy. I actually read it in The Mirror though.
> 
> 
> 
> So what other Job Centres in Brixton have recently closed down as Josephine Avenue one's been shut longer than that hasn't it?


 

yes. about six years. so must be another job centre in brixton. or probably not brixton because brixton is a journalistic term of convenience for the location of anything undesirable in central south london


----------



## RaverDrew (Oct 26, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Yeah I was surprised. I was told from a good source that the squatters were really nice and doing it as a political protest against Tescrap.



I received a pretty angry phone call from someone about it after sharing Brixton Blog's article on facebook, they had NO idea, which makes me wonder where Brixton Blog got their information from, and what their intentions were


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I received a pretty angry phone call from someone about it after sharing Brixton Blog's article on facebook, they had NO idea, which makes me wonder where Brixton Blog got their information from, and what their intentions were


 
Why should you get an angry phone call, you didn't write the article


----------



## twistedAM (Oct 27, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Why should you get an angry phone call, you didn't write the article


 
He posted it on facebook and obv the person had his phone number. That's how the internet and telecommunications mesh.


----------



## quimcunx (Oct 27, 2012)

Ah, I saw the party being advertised on facebook, not by raverdrew,  earlier this evening and thought, 'and you're advertising the squatting and party on facebook'


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 2, 2012)

FOUR new planning applications from Tesco have been put in. The deadline for comments is 7 November! ​​WTF? ​


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 2, 2012)

There is sample objection letter on the facebook page.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 2, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> FOUR new planning applications from Tesco have been put in. The deadline for comments is 7 November! ​​WTF? ​


 
Do things normally happen so fast that the public barely have any time to object?


----------



## boohoo (Nov 12, 2012)

http://www.brixtonblog.com/why-we-need-to-save-the-george-iv-pub/8247 - new article in Brixton blog


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 12, 2012)

If the time for objection has passed why are they sending people to planning objections today?


----------



## boohoo (Nov 12, 2012)

Deadline extended to 30th November!


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 12, 2012)

Link?  It didn't look like it when I looked on lambeth planning. Admittedly I spent about 8 seconds looking.


----------



## Onket (Nov 12, 2012)

John Brixton said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/georgeivbrixtonuk


 


> *John Brixton doesn't have anything available to you.*


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2012)

There was a sizeable fire in the pub this morning. I was forwarded this: 


> I'm living at George IV and so have been in semi-contact with the squatters downstairs. Generally speaking they've kept themselves to themselves and not been any trouble (excepting a huge fuck-off party last Saturday that kept going until 10am!), but this morning I woke up to find the corridors filling with smoke coming from the bar below.
> 
> I'm not 100% sure what started it, but the squatters have been lighting fires in the disused fireplace in the bar and running power from adjoining buildings using dodgy connections so it could have been anything.
> 
> ...


----------



## RaverDrew (Nov 15, 2012)

http://www.brixtonblog.com/tv-explodes-at-brixton-george-iv-music-bar-squat/8329

It was an exploding TV


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 15, 2012)

A candle


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 15, 2012)

editor said:


> There was a sizeable fire in the pub this morning. I was forwarded this:


 


> I'm not 100% sure what started it, but the squatters have been lighting fires in the disused fireplace in the bar and running power from adjoining buildings using dodgy connections so it could have been anything.


 
Isn't there only *one* adjoining building (ATS?)


----------



## JimmyBignuts (Nov 15, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Isn't there only *one* adjoining building (ATS?)


That, plus the flats above the bar.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 15, 2012)

JimmyBignuts said:


> That, plus the flats above the bar.


 
Well yes, but I would consider the flats as the *same *building


----------



## RaverDrew (Nov 15, 2012)

> (excepting a huge fuck-off party last Saturday that kept going until 10am!)



George IV always did keep some funky hours tbf, and music bar was open til 6am too.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> George IV always did keep some funky hours tbf, and music bar was open til 6am too.


I imagine some squat parties don't trouble themselves with the same volume restrictions imposed on legal venues.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 15, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> George IV always did keep some funky hours tbf, and music bar was open til 6am too.


 
Don't really have any *immediate *neighbours to worry about but that doesn't mean the not-so-immediate neighbours can't hear the music


----------



## RaverDrew (Nov 15, 2012)

editor said:


> I imagine some squat parties don't trouble themselves with the same volume restrictions imposed on legal venues.



An assumption. Although tbf a lot of the interior has been ripped out so I wouldn't be surprised if the sound travelled more. Still, I have very little sympathy for anyone who chooses to live so close to a venue and then complains about the noise.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 15, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Still, I have very little sympathy for anyone who chooses to live so close to a venue and then complains about the noise.


 
I agree, although it depends what your definition of near is


----------



## Rushy (Nov 15, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> A candle


One of my old flat mates did that. The smoke from the burning plastic was horrendous and wrecked the whole upstairs of the flat. She was wankered and didn't even hear the alarm go off. Another flatmate had to drag her out of the room.

The firebrigade came and put it out on the third floor. 10 minutes after they left it caught alight again!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 15, 2012)

Rushy said:


> One of my old flat mates did that. The smoke from the burning plastic was horrendous and wrecked the whole upstairs of the flat. She was wankered and didn't even hear the alarm go off. Another flatmate had to drag her out of the room.
> 
> The firebrigade came and put it out on the third floor. 10 minutes after they left it caught alight again!


 


I never put a candle directly onto any flammable surface.  Always stick it on a saucer or similar.

Better still, use the fake ones


----------



## leanderman (Nov 15, 2012)

Yes. But did they have a licence for the TV?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 15, 2012)

leanderman said:


> Yes. But did they have a licence for the TV?


 
Would have been paid up for the year by landlords wouldn't it?  Oh, maybe not.  New residents would probably have to buy a new one.  They could claim they don't watch BBC as it's full of lies


----------



## Onket (Nov 16, 2012)

Landlords paying their tenant's TV licence? Heard it all now!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 16, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> An assumption. Although tbf a lot of the interior has been ripped out so I wouldn't be surprised if the sound travelled more. Still, I have very little sympathy for anyone who chooses to live so close to a venue and then complains about the noise.


 
TBF the tone in the editor's quote didn't sound all that bothered by the party - more like it was a minor irritation than 'outraged of Brixton Hill.'

(So we can guess it wasn't sent by ajdown.)


----------



## Onket (Nov 16, 2012)

There was more outrage from the squatters when it was suggested that they were going to have a party, tbf.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 16, 2012)

Onket said:


> There was more outrage from the squatters when it was suggested that they were going to have a party, tbf.


 
Those squatters that apparently did have a party?

Maybe they were worried the hipsters might hear about it.


----------



## Onket (Nov 16, 2012)

Also the only conclusion I could come to.


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 21, 2012)

I assumed they just didn't want it advertised to 1. all and sundry, 2. any tesco, police, council people who read the brixton blog or read the George IV fb page.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 21, 2012)

Oh, forgot to say.

Have squatters been evicted?  I saw door open today and a man putting sheet metal over the windows


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 21, 2012)

Still can't see anything suggesting the deadline has been extended. doesn't 'pending consideration' mean they're in the considering any objections phase, not the receiving objections phase?


----------



## twistedAM (Nov 21, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Oh, forgot to say.
> 
> Have squatters been evicted? I saw door open today and a man putting sheet metal over the windows


 
There were lots of lights on upstairs when I was driving past about midnight.
Most of the people who actually lived above the bar have moved out.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 21, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> There were lots of lights on upstairs when I was driving past about midnight.
> Most of the people who actually lived above the bar have moved out.


 
How come?  Has upstairs been sold as well then?


----------



## twistedAM (Nov 21, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> How come? Has upstairs been sold as well then?


 
Dunno. My friends moved out as they were worried about how the building was going to be maintained once the Music Bar people left.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 21, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Dunno. My friends moved out as they were worried about how the building was going to be maintained once the Music Bar people left.


 
Does the owner/whoever ran the Music Bar live there?


----------



## twistedAM (Nov 21, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Does the owner/whoever ran the Music Bar live there?


 
Doubt it.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 1, 2013)

There was a piece on Radio 4 this morning about supermarkets (mainly Tesco) targeting pubs - George IV was mentioned and they interviewed Andrew Child (the green party guy who ran in the by-election) and a few others. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21196204


----------



## slcr (Apr 11, 2013)

Disappointed said:


> Boycott Tesco Acre Lane.
> If you couldn't make the meeting there is some good news. Planning permission to create a car park at the front of the pub has been declined.


 
Just to let everyone who objected know... I (a couple of days ago) received a new letter from Lambeth informing me of an application to make amendments to the front of the George IV plus the installation of car parking to the front.  I have misplaced the letter and haven't time to search the Lambeth site for it now but, sounds to me like Tesco may have made a new, identical (iirc) application to the one which was refused?  If so, everyone who objected first time around will need to do so again..


----------



## quimcunx (Apr 11, 2013)

I got that letter too.  

I've also today got 3 further letters about 3 of their applications which will be discussed at a planning meeting on 16th April, next Tuesday.  Loads of notice as per. 

Someone mentioned that Chuka had put something in motion about community listing or something and that this might be why they've started pushing them again.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 12, 2013)

i got the letters too - the planning department's recommendation (despite all the objections) is to GRANT PERMISSION


----------



## quimcunx (Apr 12, 2013)

but of course.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 12, 2013)

quimcunx said:


> but of course.


yeah, no fucking surprise is it?

I must have commented on and objected to hundreds and hundreds of planning applications over the years, only ever had success with about half a dozen or so. (Worth it though.)


----------



## slcr (Apr 15, 2013)

They turned it down first time around - was the planning department's recommendation the same then?

It's a decent starting point to be hopeful about successful objections.. shall we do it?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 18, 2013)

The council/planning committee fucked up on Tuesday night and ended up discussing the old plans, instead of the new ones. So the decision has been deferred until a later date. The agent for Tesco was apoplectic 

I understand some locals are now trying to get the pub listed.

Also, Tesco don't own it - a developer does. So it could still be bought from under Tesco's noses. Anyone know any rich Brixtonites?!


----------



## quimcunx (Apr 18, 2013)

Cheers, I was wondering what had happened. 

I think the deadline on the planning permission re railings   I mentioned (that were separate from the mtg ones for some reason) is 27th April. So still time to be awkward over that. 

On the assumption that Tesco were looking for a bit of speedy processing because of Chuka et al looking at community listing (?) I imagine they were a little annoyed.    Did they actually turn up or were they leaving it to the council to plead their case again?


----------



## leanderman (Apr 18, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The council/planning committee fucked up on Tuesday night and ended up discussing the old plans, instead of the new ones. So the decision has been deferred until a later date. The agent for Tesco was apoplectic
> 
> I understand some locals are now trying to get the pub listed.
> 
> Also, Tesco don't own it - a developer does. So it could still be bought from under Tesco's noses. Anyone know any rich Brixtonites?!


 
I understand Tesco has bought the lease from the Birmingham-based developer. So, in practice, and for a certain number of years, it owns the pub.


----------



## leanderman (Apr 18, 2013)

The corner shop nearest the George IV is having its alcohol licence reviewed after a council team discovered it had sold booze to a child, stocked non duty-paid alcohol and employed a visa overstayer.

It was closed yesterday.


----------



## slcr (Apr 18, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The council/planning committee fucked up on Tuesday night and ended up discussing the old plans, instead of the new ones. So the decision has been deferred until a later date. The agent for Tesco was apoplectic
> 
> I understand some locals are now trying to get the pub listed.
> 
> Also, Tesco don't own it - a developer does. So it could still be bought from under Tesco's noses. Anyone know any rich Brixtonites?!


 
What was on the agenda for discussion on Tuesday night!?  The letter I got about making an area for carparking said the deadline for objections is the 24th.


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## Tricky Skills (Apr 18, 2013)

The listing is part of the Community Right to Bid under the Localism Act. Essentially it allows any community group to apply to have an 'asset of community value' placed on the local authority's asset list. If the asset then becomes available on the private market, the group has a six month moratorium ahead of the private sector to try and source a bid at the market value. This is the model that was successful for the Ivy House in Southwark.

Save George IV has been working with Locality and myself at The Place Station to try and get Lambeth Council to place the George on the list of community assets. The required 21 signatures have been sourced, including Chuka Umunna and Brixton Hill Cllr Alex Holland. The Counicl has six weeks now to make a decision.

This won't alter the current ambitions of Tesco. The company is still free to press ahead and purchase the lease / apply for planning permission. It does mean however that if Tesco gets cold feet or increasingly pissed off with the planning process and decides to sell, Save George IV campaign gets first dibs to try and put in a serious offer.

This is where the real fun starts  Grants and funding support is available...

Anyone following the uncertainty over Dulwich Hamlet's ground might like to know that Right to Bid is also a possibility here.


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## leanderman (Apr 18, 2013)

Tricky Skills said:


> This won't alter the current ambitions of Tesco. The company is still free to press ahead and purchase the lease / apply for planning permission. It does mean however that if Tesco gets cold feet or increasingly pissed off with the planning process and decides to sell, Save George IV campaign gets first dibs to try and put in a serious offer.


 
So, Tesco does not own the lease? The George IV tweeter said it did


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## BBTim (Apr 19, 2013)

As far as I understand it, Tesco haven't yet signed the lease. I spoke to the landlord, a guy named Bebir, in January and he said he would be prepared to lease it to a community group, as long as it matched Tesco's offer and there were certain guarantees about income. That was a few month ago now, though.


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## Rushy (Apr 19, 2013)

BBTim said:


> As far as I understand it, Tesco haven't yet signed the lease. I spoke to the landlord, a guy named Bebir, in January and he said he would be prepared to lease it to a community group, as long as it matched Tesco's offer and there were certain guarantees about income. That was a few month ago now, though.


Any idea how much that was? I can't imagine any business could afford to rent it at what it will be worth to Tesco. If you're a landlord, Tesco are a wet dream come true.


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## BBTim (Apr 19, 2013)

No idea, and I don't have the guy's number, but I'd be interested to know what dialogue the Save George IV people are having with him, if any.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 19, 2013)

Saw a billboard for the South London Press today mentioning this.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 19, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Any idea how much that was? I can't imagine any business could afford to rent it at what it will be worth to Tesco. If you're a landlord, Tesco are a wet dream come true.


 
It'll be the income guarantees that are the killer I'd guess. A community group is incredibly unlikely to be able to promise to match Tesco's money long term, even if they could come up with it for a bit.


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## DJWrongspeed (Apr 19, 2013)

Reading the planning documents it seems that the planning officers were recommending giving it the go ahead. All objections were disregarded or explained away on a point by point basis, bit grim.


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## slcr (Apr 22, 2013)

I got a letter this weekend saying there is an appeal against the original turning down of the Tesco application (removal of existing fencing plus formation of car-parking.. etc) with an objection point some time in the future, not soon enough to act urgently.

But my letter referred to above is a new application which on a re-read, is an application for "removal of PART OF existing fencing plus formation of car-parking.. etc".

Bit flummoxed about what is going on but will rally the neighbours to object to the "new" application, and sort something out for the appeal.  As the deadline for the new application objections is 2 day's time - April 24th.


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## TheBrixtonBoy (Apr 22, 2013)

It would be great if someone could determine the rent ect. We could all look if something is then viable for the community. It looks like it has plenty of floors and could certainly work in my opinion.

Brixton Hill does not need another Supermarket, mini or otherwise. There are two others within a couple of hundred yards and another Tesco on the corner of New Park Road. Other places in London may want to be clones of each other, but Brixton doesn't and shouldn't.


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## MillwallShoes (Apr 22, 2013)

quimcunx said:


> View attachment 21347
> 
> View attachment 21348
> 
> ...


now that is a fucking shame. talk about destroy a place.

fucking supermarket opening on crown point west norwood soon as well


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## leanderman (Apr 22, 2013)

The trick is to prove it would be financially viable when, before it closed, it seemingly wasn't.

It's tough running pubs when booze is so cheap in ... supermarkets.

Unless you do an Antic and run away from your debts


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## billythefish (Apr 22, 2013)

leanderman said:


> The trick is to prove it would be financially viable when, before it closed, it seemingly wasn't.
> 
> It's tough running pubs when booze is so cheap in ... supermarkets.
> 
> Unless you do an Antic and run away from your debts


I reckon they should make a go of it as a backpacker's hostel / budget hotel. There's clearly call for hotel rooms in Brixton what with the massive hotel planned behind KFC. There are so many venues in Brixton, and bugger all accommodation. They could keep the downstairs as a bar / function room.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 22, 2013)

billythefish said:


> I reckon they should make a go of it as a backpacker's hostel / budget hotel. There's clearly call for hotel rooms in Brixton what with the massive hotel planned behind KFC. There are so many venues in Brixton, and bugger all accommodation. They could keep the downstairs as a bar / function room.


 

I was thinking that myself!  Can't remember how many bedrooms are upstairs but at least half a dozen (I've stayed in most of them )


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## slcr (Apr 24, 2013)

Today is the LAST DAY to respond.  Takes 5 minutes.  Does everyone realise it's necessary to object to this as Tesco may eventually give up if they can't do the alterations they need?

reference is 13/01107/FUL, go to www.lambeth.gov.uk/planningdatabase and click on planning database, then search by reference.  Registering takes not long at all.  You can view other people's objections and submit your own.   You could also try emailing your objection to planning@lambeth.gov.uk with your full name and address details, which isn't a way that the letter says you can object but it worked for me last time.

Relevant parts of mine in case it helps anyone:

I object to the application for the formation of carparking on the hardstanding area in front of the current George IV pub property, and the removal of "part of existing fencing". Similarly, I objected to the almost identical application made last year (12/02757/FUL) which is currently under appeal, where the application is to "remove existing fencing" rather than "part of the existing fencing".

I am a resident in nearby Tudor Close and have lived here for six and a half years. The George IV is within the Rush Common and Brixton Hill Conservation area (http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...0D772D2091/0/CA49RushCommonandBrixtonHill.pdf). As I stated in my objections to 12/02757/FUL, I think the addition of the proposed area of car-parking would intrinsically damage the character of the area, making it appear more built-up than it is presently and therefore would fail to protect the area's character in a way which would be a real shame. As noted in the 1997 appraisal of this conservation area, the frontage alongside that part of the hill is of special interest and "exerts a fundamental impact on the character of the 200 year old Rush Common". (http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...320FA/0/RushCommonAndBrixtonHillAppraisal.pdf) The special character of the George IV itself is noted in the appraisal as "the splendid George IV public house - a late Victorian extravaganza with charming ironwork, stone balustrades and a jolly copper-clad turret topped by a flying seagull weathervane". Whatever happens to the George IV, the appearance and character needs to be maintained. I feel very strongly that if the application is granted, railings removed and/or carparking is created outside the property, this will amount to intrusion and damage to the area's - and that specific building's - special character, amounting to crude and insensitive alteration, i.e. the kind of adaptation which that report lamented - for example on pages 25 and 26.

Once that building's character is lost, it will be gone forever.

Further, I object on the basis that the proposed works will have an obviously detrimental impact on the flow of traffic around the area and particularly on the bus routes. I am a user of buses down Brixton Hill and the area is already subject to heavy traffic at several times of day. The addition of this car park will cause disruption and delay as cars/delivery vehicles turn into, and move out of, the car park and I have related safety fears.


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## Kanda (Apr 24, 2013)

billythefish said:


> I reckon they should make a go of it as a backpacker's hostel / budget hotel. There's clearly call for hotel rooms in Brixton what with the massive hotel planned behind KFC. There are so many venues in Brixton, and bugger all accommodation. They could keep the downstairs as a bar / function room.


 
Hootenany does hostel rooms doesn't it?


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## slcr (Apr 24, 2013)

Ergh - this one's coming up, too... the application for Tesco signage, I guess?  http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...tails.do?activeTab=dates&keyVal=MC1ATRBOHV000


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## billythefish (Apr 24, 2013)

Kanda said:


> Hootenany does hostel rooms doesn't it?


Yup, and as far as I know they're in great demand.


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## DJWrongspeed (Apr 24, 2013)

Have made a hasty objection , thanks for the text slcr.


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## leanderman (Apr 24, 2013)

Apparently it has just been listed as a community asset, whatever that means.


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## sparkybird (Apr 24, 2013)

slcr - thanks for jogging my memory on that - it's been on my list and glad I didn't miss the deadline. Though your comments were very well expressed and hope it's OK but I've used part of them in mine

Fingers crossed


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## DJWrongspeed (Apr 25, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Apparently it has just been listed as a community asset, whatever that means.


Any more info ?


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## leanderman (Apr 25, 2013)

Think it makes it harder to develop or something. 

I am not especially opposed to Tesco. But a hotel or pub would be better. 

After all, it was a hotel once.


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## Tricky Skills (Apr 25, 2013)

The Assessment Panel at Lambeth Council has ruled that the application to list the pub as an Asset of Community Value complies with the criteria for the 2011 Localism Act. The George is now the first Asset of Community Value in Lambeth. It has been added to the Council's Asset List and will be publicised on the Lambeth website.

What this means is that the owner is now not allowed to dispose of the freehold or any lease. The owner has to notify the Council first if there is an intention to sell.

This will then trigger off a six month moritorium period. The Save the George group will then be able to have a free run of trying to put in a market value bid ahead of the private sector. This is the exact same model that led to a local community group buying and managing the Ivy House in Southwark.


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## Tricky Skills (Apr 26, 2013)

Here's the press release from Save George IV group:

George IV Public House listed as an asset of community value

Lambeth Council yesterday confirmed that the Victorian George IV pub on Brixton Hill, close to Brixton’s recently restored historic windmill, will be the first building in Lambeth to be listed as an asset of community value.

New legislation under the Localism Act means communities can ask the council to list certain assets as being of value to the community. If an asset is listed and then comes up for sale, the new right will give communities 6 months to put together a bid to buy it. This gives communities an increased chance to save much loved shops, pubs or other local facilities.

The lease on the pub is currently held by Tesco who plan to turn it into an Express store. Their planning application for signage and an access ramp was recently deferred by Lambeth Council Planning Committee.

The community bid to list George IV has been backed by local councillors and by local MP and Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umunna.

Mr Umunna said “Lambeth’s decision to list the George IV site as an asset of community value is fantastic news– we place incredible value on the unique character of our area and this listing shows that. It’s brilliant as the local MP to be in a position to support this listing and there’s been great work done by a huge number of local people including all of the local Brixton Hill Councillors.”

The Save George IV campaign group has collected over 3000 signatures on a petition to save George IV from being taken over by Tesco.

Campaign founder Andrew Child said, "We are thrilled to have achieved this listing, which recognises what this campaign has been saying all along: that this pub was an important community space. Its value to the community will obviously be lost if Tesco presses ahead with plans to turn the George IV into a supermarket.

"It is clear that the local community stands four square behind the campaign. We have more than 3,000 signatures on a petition and this listing has been backed by local councillors as well as local MP and shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna. Tesco, as a result, is looking very isolated.

"We urge Tesco to now seriously reconsider its plans which will do real damage to its brand in this part of London, depriving the local community of a much-valued local pub and adding another supermarket which Chuka Ummuna has described as 'not needed or wanted'. Tesco could instead project a very different image and use its expertise to work with the local community to reopen the George IV as a community pub."


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## Crispy (Apr 26, 2013)

Excellent news. However, 6 months is not long. Do we know what sort of money is needed?


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## Tricky Skills (Apr 26, 2013)

It's brilliant news, but it may be that the opportunity doesn't even come along. The Right to Bid only kicks in if the owner wants to sell either the freehold or the lease. It does send an incredibly powerful message to Tesco however as to how communities can fight back. It's not a party political issue, but the support of the Shadow Business Secretary is pretty impressive. I would think that the best hope is that Tesco sees the level of local opposition and has second thoughts - probably not for any moral reason, but in pure business terms.


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## slcr (Apr 26, 2013)

"We urge Tesco to now seriously reconsider its plans which will do real damage to its brand in this part of London, depriving the local community of a much-valued local pub and adding another supermarket which Chuka Ummuna has described as 'not needed or wanted'. Tesco could instead project a very different image and use its expertise to work with the local community to reopen the George IV as a community pub."[/quote]

... a Tesco-pub?


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## leanderman (Apr 26, 2013)

This has been my point all along: Tesco already has the lease, and can do what it wants.

The listing works only if Tesco wants to sell the lease, which it doesn't.

Our approach in Leander Road, over the Sainsbury at Carpetright, is to work with the 'enemy', to deliver pedestrian improvements.

It will probably fail as well


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## TheBrixtonBoy (Apr 26, 2013)

Soon we will have a tesco on every street corner. It is depressing.. A community project with viable accommodation above will work


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

TheBrixtonBoy said:


> Soon we will have a tesco on every street corner. It is depressing.. A community project with viable accommodation above will work


 
Not in Brixton Hill we won't.  Sainsbury's have them all nabbed (well, not the corners, but ykwim)


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## newbie (Apr 26, 2013)

TheBrixtonBoy said:


> Soon we will have a tesco on every street corner. It is depressing.


 

it is, but is it more or less depressing than this?



leanderman said:


> The corner shop nearest the George IV is having its alcohol licence reviewed after a council team discovered it had sold booze to a child, stocked non duty-paid alcohol and employed a visa overstayer.
> 
> It was closed yesterday.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

newbie said:


> it is, but is it more or less depressing than this?


 
I never actually ever saw *anyone *go into that shop.  I did when it first opened, and within seconds knew it was one I wouldn't be bothering with again


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## newbie (Apr 26, 2013)

which one is meant, Premiere down the hill by Blenheim Gdns or one up the hill?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

newbie said:


> which one is meant, Premiere down the hill by Blenheim Gdns or one up the hill?


 
Oh, I dunno.  I assumed people are talking about that one that took over Bazaar Bazaar (near to Poleo Dry Cleaners)


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## newbie (Apr 26, 2013)

ah, that didn't occur to me.  Not been in there since the old bloke who tried to fix tellys retired


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## slcr (Apr 29, 2013)

leanderman said:


> This has been my point all along: Tesco already has the lease, and can do what it wants.
> 
> The listing works only if Tesco wants to sell the lease, which it doesn't.


 
Not really, leanderman.  It needs planning permission to do what it wants.  Hence the point of people's objections to the various applications it has made, and has yet to make.  Most of which will make relevant references to local character (which the recent listing confirms, though it is already recognised in relevant Lambeth planning policies).


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## leanderman (Apr 29, 2013)

slcr said:


> Not really, leanderman. It needs planning permission to do what it wants. Hence the point of people's objections to the various applications it has made, and has yet to make. Most of which will make relevant references to local character (which the recent listing confirms, though it is already recognised in relevant Lambeth planning policies).


 
It is a lovely building. And its character should be preserved.

But do the objections relate to the details of Tesco's project - or the very fact of it?

These are two different things.


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## slcr (Apr 29, 2013)

Not sure of your point, but certainly a lot of people in the area (as around the UK generally...) object to "the fact of it", if by that you mean the simple idea of having a Tesco.  

My personal objections relate to (i) having another large chain supermarket on the hill, where we're already saturated with Sainsburys and well-served with Tescos (ii) having another convenience store at all, of whatever ilk (again, the hill is saturated) (iii) uglifying the area.

Objections about character, in addition to being valid objections in themselves, are a useful tool for those whose ultimate purpose is to prevent it being a Tesco.


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## leanderman (Apr 29, 2013)

slcr said:


> Not sure of your point, but certainly a lot of people in the area (as around the UK generally...) object to "the fact of it", if by that you mean the simple idea of having a Tesco.
> 
> My personal objections relate to (i) having another large chain supermarket on the hill, where we're already saturated with Sainsburys and well-served with Tescos (ii) having another convenience store at all, of whatever ilk (again, the hill is saturated) (iii) uglifying the area.
> 
> Objections about character, in addition to being valid objections in themselves, are a useful tool for those whose ultimate purpose is to prevent it being a Tesco.


 
I understand all that. And agree to an extent.

My point was that the objections are about the detail of the plans (railings, frontage, cars etc) when the real objection is to there being any plans at all.

And I doubt you can stop Tesco putting a store in a commercial building it holds a lease on. Only the details (railings, frontage, cars etc) are at issue. Not the store.

I believe Tesco has already appealed to the Secretary of State to go over Lambeth council's heads.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 29, 2013)

newbie said:


> ah, that didn't occur to me. Not been in there since the old bloke who tried to fix tellys retired


 


He's the one (well not him, but his young lad/helper) who climbed the roof and put our aerial up.  Fixed my VCR a few times as well


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 29, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I believe Tesco has already appealed to the Secretary of State to go over Lambeth council's heads.


 
Could that be newsworthy?  Anyone know any journalists?


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## leanderman (Apr 29, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Oh, I dunno.  I assumed people are talking about that one that took over Bazaar Bazaar (near to Poleo Dry Cleaners)



Yep. Called Grace. Still shut.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 29, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Yep. Called Grace. Still shut.


 
Not a huge loss


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## leanderman (Apr 29, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Could that be newsworthy? Anyone know any journalists?


 
That information re: secretary of state  and Tesco was from a tweet by George IV campaigners


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## editor (May 2, 2013)

Here's how it's going to look if they get their way. 



https://www.facebook.com/StopTescoSaveGeorgeIV


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## leanderman (May 2, 2013)

That is horrific. Almost as bad as the buildings either side: ATS tyres and Magic Tiles


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## Giles (May 4, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I understand all that. And agree to an extent.
> 
> My point was that the objections are about the detail of the plans (railings, frontage, cars etc) when the real objection is to there being any plans at all.
> 
> ...


 
I thought that, as things stand, planning permission is not needed to go from a pub (A4) to a shop (A1)?

Or does this "asset of community value" thing change these rules?

It would be kind of funny watching someone argue that the George was a much-used "local" pub (for those locals who liked getting off their faces and dancing to banging hard house and trance at any time at all over the weekend, anyway).

I still hope it doesn't become a Tesco though.

Giles..


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## Vibrant-Hubb (May 5, 2013)

I think that "much used local pub" is valid. The George had periods as an RnB bar and club, house and trance club, gig place for bands, comedy venue with a stage and just as a sitting around chatting pub. Plus it is a beautiful building with distinctive architectural features and in a Conservation Area.


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## goldenecitrone (May 5, 2013)

editor said:


> Here's how it's going to look if they get their way.
> 
> View attachment 32118


 
That just looks so wrong.


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## Rushy (May 7, 2013)

Given the recent news about Golfrate buying the Windmill and other pub freeholds it would seem like a good idea for Lambeth to start identifying "community assets" before more of them are sold. After all, once the sale has taken place the listing is not nearly as useful. Perhaps we should start a list here?

The tories are proposing stricter controls to save pubs:




> A *recent report* by the Tories recommended that London’s boroughs should step in with stricter planning policies that favour protecting pubs as community hubs.​​It also called for strict criteria when it comes to planning applications for changing the use of a pub or demolishing it. These might include the need to demonstrate that the pub has been vacant for at least two years, making sure the character of the street scene is not detrimentally affected, and retaining significant features of historic value.​


​ 
Crispy Could the planning authority theoretically bring in an Article 4 direction (or other instrument) which applies stricter controls on properties once they have been identified as Community Assets? E.g. removing the right for change of use from A4 to retail and requiring full planning consent?


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## Tricky Skills (May 8, 2013)

Identifying Assets of Community Value can be carried out by residents, as has been the case with The George. The Localism Act allows this under Right to Bid. You just need 21 signatures from local residents - the group doesn't need to be constituted. 'Social well being' is the key phrase - highly flexible. If listed like The George - _and the Type Museum & the Groveway Nursery_ - then the group gets a six month heads up for a market value bid, should the asset come up for sale.

Here's the Lambeth Council Right to Bid application form, and related docs.

I admit that it's possibly a little idealistic. But the legislation is there, and it's more about official recognition that buildings such as Brixton Windmill, the Fridge and the Rec (?) are all genuine assets of community value. I personally think that the George has a half decent chance of making a go of this...

Here's a video from Locality [declaration: _work for Locality_...] on the how the Ivy House in Southwark managed to achieve community ownership.

​
​The Place Station site from Locality encourages individuals and groups to map and share ideas with a view to possible listings.​


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## Minnie_the_Minx (May 9, 2013)

I saw some guys a while ago on the roof that didn't look like residents.  Maybe builders or surveyors?

Just saw another couple on the roof and one of them works next door at ATS garage 

There was also a party on the roof the other night.  Not sure if that was a Bank Holiday weekend party for the residents though


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## simonSW2 (May 14, 2013)

Just got a letter through from Lambeth Planning to say the application for "Removal of part of existing fencing with formation of building on existing hardstanding area" has been withdrawn.


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## leanderman (May 14, 2013)

simonSW2 said:


> Just got a letter through from Lambeth Planning to say the application for "Removal of part of existing fencing with formation of building on existing hardstanding area" has been withdrawn.



What is the meaning of this?


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## simonSW2 (May 14, 2013)

leanderman said:


> What is the meaning of this?


It means that Tesco will re-apply when no-one is looking I guess. I think it just delays things for them.


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## Tricky Skills (May 14, 2013)

The George is on the Planning agenda for tonight, 14th May, 7pm at the Town Hall. All four related items are down for approval.


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## simonSW2 (May 14, 2013)

Tricky Skills said:


> The George is on the Planning agenda for tonight, 14th May, 7pm at the Town Hall. All four related items are down for approval.


 
Please update with info from the meeting if you can. I'm a bit vexed that they've sent me a letter saying it has been withdrawn, while the same thing is 'recommended for approval' on tonights agenda.

Shysters.


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## Tricky Skills (May 14, 2013)

The Planning Committee agreed all four applications submitted by Tesco for the George IV site


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## leanderman (May 14, 2013)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Planning Committee agreed all four applications submitted by Tesco for the George IV site


 
Had they not, Tesco would probably have taken legal action or appealed to the secretary of state


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## editor (May 14, 2013)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Planning Committee agreed all four applications submitted by Tesco for the George IV site


Ah, you can't beat a good 'co-operative' council, can you?


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## shifting gears (May 14, 2013)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Planning Committee agreed all four applications submitted by Tesco for the George IV site



Did you make a note of which councillors voted for and against? No doubt the labour lot all voted for - with the Barratt Homes meeting it was really only Lib Dems who voted against...


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## shifting gears (May 15, 2013)

shifting gears said:


> Did you make a note of which councillors voted for and against? No doubt the labour lot all voted for - with the Barratt Homes meeting it was really only Lib Dems who voted against...



Just bumping this cos I'd really like to know and I'm sure others would too - I'd do the brackets/username thing to alert but I'm on a phone and have no laptop at present. 

Also makes me wonder if we shouldn't start a whole thread devoted to Lambeth's individual councillors - what they voted for & against, their positions on local issues, their statements 'on behalf of the community' etc - what do you lot reckon?


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## leanderman (May 16, 2013)

I don't know what the councillors were supposed to do. Tesco owned the building. Stop them trading? Unlikely.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 16, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I don't know what the councillors were supposed to do...


They could have put the decision off until the imminent results of the Brixton SPD consultation...which may have suggested the community wanted to retain pubs instead of multinational companies which are likely to harm the diversity & success of local independent businesses....


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## Brixton Hatter (May 16, 2013)

wishful thinking though


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## leanderman (May 16, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> They could have put the decision off until the imminent results of the Brixton SPD consultation...which may have suggested the community wanted to retain pubs instead of multinational companies which are likely to harm the diversity & success of local independent businesses....




Yes. The bigger picture is that this is a bad call. But, in isolation, it was unavoidable. 

I have to admit that, when I walk past, I feel sad that this fine building will be a crappy, overpriced store. Wish Tesco had bought out ATS or the tile place instead


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## Brixton Hatter (May 16, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I have to admit that, when I walk past, I feel sad that this fine building will be a crappy, overpriced store. Wish Tesco had bought out ATS or the tile place instead


Absolutely.



leanderman said:


> Yes. The bigger picture is that this is a bad call. But, in isolation, it was unavoidable.


It's only become unavoidable because of the policies of the recent/past Labour and Tory governments (local *and* national). The _precise intention _of various planning acts over the past 20 years has been to make it easier for developers to get things done - 'reducing bureaucracy' and 'freeing up the market' etc   (i'll reference all this stuff in the morning of course  )


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## Brixton Hatter (May 18, 2013)

Emergency meeting to Save George IV - this Sunday at the Hand in Hand, New Park Road, SW2 

More details here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ng-hand-in-hand-new-park-road-sw2-4en.310470/

Lambeth, London Borough of Tesco


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## Maggot (May 19, 2013)

Has anyone posted this yet?


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## slcr (May 21, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I don't know what the councillors were supposed to do. Tesco owned the building. Stop them trading? Unlikely.


 
They could have voted against the proposals on the basis that they don't fit with the conservation area the building is in, nor with local planning policies.  Just because Tesco have acquired the lease doesn't mean they have to be allowed to build a Tesco on, or a standard-issue bright white and blue Tesco, on the premises.


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## slcr (May 21, 2013)

What happened at the emergency meeting?  Didn't see this in time..


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## High Definition (May 31, 2013)

shifting gears said:


> Did you make a note of which councillors voted for and against? No doubt the labour lot all voted for - with the Barratt Homes meeting it was really only Lib Dems who voted against...


 
Shifting gears asked which councillors voted for the Tesco scheme and did the Labour lot all vote for.  I was at the planning committee meeting and that yes the lib dem did vote against but the labour vote was split. There were 4 labour councillors at the meeting - two (the chair Cllr Diana Morris and Cllr Malley) voted for, one abstained and one (Cllr Jennifer Braithwaite) voted against.   There was also a tory cllr at the meeting who abstained.  The result was a split vote - two for, two against and two abstentions - after which Cllr Morris used her casting vote in favour.  I've seen Cllr Braithwaite (black councillor, Gypsy Hill ward) in action at other planning committee meetings and she's a star, asks tough questions and won't be browbeaten by developers, planning officers or members of her own party.


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## shakespearegirl (Jun 4, 2013)

Looks like building has started, portacabins on site and its all fenced off


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## leanderman (Jun 4, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> Looks like building has started, portacabins on site and its all fenced off


 

Yep. Plumbers were going into today as I walked past.


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## JimmyBignuts (Jun 13, 2013)

Live above it. Can confirm it's all kicking off. Sledgehammers from 7am most mornings


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 13, 2013)

JimmyBignuts said:


> Live above it. Can confirm it's all kicking off. Sledgehammers from 7am most mornings


 

What's happening with the back?  I've seen lots of people on the roof peering over in the past few weeks, including what looks like guys from the ATS garage

I see you guys sitting enjoying the sun and having parties as well


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## JimmyBignuts (Jun 13, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What's happening with the back? I've seen lots of people on the roof peering over in the past few weeks, including what looks like guys from the ATS garage
> 
> I see you guys sitting enjoying the sun and having parties as well


 

Ha, that was probably me! Think Tesco's are taking the back room downstairs, but the roof terrace is still ours, thank Christ. Summers on that terrace are one of the main reasons I've lived there for so long!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 13, 2013)

JimmyBignuts said:


> Ha, that was probably me! Think Tesco's are taking the back room downstairs, but the roof terrace is still ours, thank Christ. Summers on that terrace are one of the main reasons I've lived there for so long!


 
There was a big party there a few weeks ago, along with lots of food and loads of people.

Why do people keep going on to the terrace to look over it? What exactly are they looking at, that little yard or something? 

and why have I see people from the garage next door on the terrace?

I thought you had a burglar yesterday but it was one of the garage guys climbing the tyre mountain backing on to pub wall looking for a tyre 

eta:  ah, maybe guys on terrace are getting an aerial view of the toilets from the pub


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## JimmyBignuts (Jun 13, 2013)

I've not seen any of the tyre guys there to my knowledge - though we had a builder sleeping downstairs for a while whilst the bar was vacant, so it could have just been him in his overalls.

As for peering into the courtyard, it's either just curious guests or watching the ATS guys shout at each other/pull doughnuts in their cars in the yard during lunch break.


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## Frumious B. (Aug 20, 2013)

It's opening on Aug 30 http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/...o_Express_donates___500_to_charity_Kids_City/


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 20, 2013)

JimmyBignuts said:


> I've not seen any of the tyre guys there to my knowledge - though we had a builder sleeping downstairs for a while whilst the bar was vacant, so it could have just been him in his overalls.
> 
> As for peering into the courtyard, it's either just curious guests or watching the ATS guys shout at each other/pull doughnuts in their cars in the yard during lunch break.


 
I saw them on the roof a few times looking over.  Maybe it was garage related and they were just borrowing your roof to view something.

Anyway, what are the guys on the roof that have been on there on and off for the last few days up to?  Making the flat roof better or something?  It looks like there's metal sheeting down


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 20, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> It's opening on Aug 30 http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/...o_Express_donates___500_to_charity_Kids_City/


 
LATE!  It was meant to be 27th


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## shakespearegirl (Aug 20, 2013)

Wow Tesco, £500. Your generosity is astounding


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 20, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> Wow Tesco, £500. Your generosity is astounding


 



> The doors of the new Tesco Express on Brixton Hill open for the first time at 8am on Friday 30th August, with the official opening ceremony and cheque presentation taking place later that morning at 10.30am.


 
How exciting.  I must put it in my diary.

Oh dear.  There's a clash.  I will have to miss this thrilling opportunity


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## editor (Aug 20, 2013)

£500 you say?

They were making a profit of £6,000 every minute a few years back. Which must have been nice.


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## editor (Aug 21, 2013)

Goodbye George IV  

http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2013/08/...goes-up-on-the-george-iv-pub-on-brixton-hill/


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## JimmyBignuts (Aug 21, 2013)

Ugh, the building work has been a total nightmare - 7 days a week with drilling starting around 7.30am. Last night there was hammering until 4am.


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## quimcunx (Aug 21, 2013)

Um, complain?  Complain vociferously.  With guns.


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## shakespearegirl (Aug 21, 2013)

JimmyBigNuts, I'd complain to building control. The will have restrictions on the hours they are allowed to work and particularly to the amount of the noise they are allowed to make outside of work hours. Building control can get very very shitty about this...


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## shakespearegirl (Aug 21, 2013)

And I'm sure the South London Press/Tesco PR department would be interested, you might get some vouchers from Tesco


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## Rushy (Aug 22, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> JimmyBigNuts, I'd complain to building control. The will have restrictions on the hours they are allowed to work and particularly to the amount of the noise they are allowed to make outside of work hours. Building control can get very very shitty about this...


 
I don't think that's a building control issue, is it? It will be Lambeth noise control.


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## shakespearegirl (Aug 22, 2013)

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...4355/0/CodeOfPracticeForConstructionSites.pdf

You are right Rushy. I thought I remembered when I got planning permission that the hours of building permitted were listed within the permission document, but maybe I was wrong. 

Good luck if anyone tries to get noise control to do anything especially out of hours, when I dealt with them they were worse than useless


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## Rushy (Aug 24, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...4355/0/CodeOfPracticeForConstructionSites.pdf
> 
> You are right Rushy. I thought I remembered when I got planning permission that the hours of building permitted were listed within the permission document, but maybe I was wrong.
> 
> Good luck if anyone tries to get noise control to do anything especially out of hours, when I dealt with them they were worse than useless


 
Tell me about it


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 30, 2013)

I went in there at 10.00am today.  No free bags like Sainsbury's, not that I want a free bag anyway.

No self-service checkouts, and all we wanted was a newspaper, and there were half a dozen people at the till and only one manned till. 

Friend made a snide comment to someone suited who may have been the manager.  On the other hand, he could have been a customer 
We left and walked to a convenience store further down the Hill.


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## leanderman (Aug 30, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I went in there at 10.00am today.  No free bags like Sainsbury's, not that I want a free bag anyway.
> 
> No self-service checkouts, and all we wanted was a newspaper, and there were half a dozen people at the till and only one manned till.
> 
> ...



interesting contrast to the generally positive comments about the new Brixton Sainsbury at Lower Tulse Hill.


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## Brixton Hatter (Aug 30, 2013)

leanderman said:


> interesting contrast to the generally positive comments about the new Brixton Sainsbury at Lower Tulse Hill.


Yeah, Sainsbury's are merely bastards, whereas Tesco are cunts.


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## sparkybird (Aug 30, 2013)

I have to say that, although I will never set foot in there, the external signage has been done pretty tastefully. SOOOO much better than the big luminous FO sign that adorns the new Sainsburys


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 30, 2013)

leanderman said:


> interesting contrast to the generally positive comments about the new Brixton Sainsbury at Lower Tulse Hill.


 
I'm not certain they were all manned checkouts, as I just saw the queue, quickly scanned for self-service and left

Will be going there again in a while though as couldn't stop off for shopping earlier and fridge is bare


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## simonSW2 (Aug 30, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I'm not certain they were all manned checkouts, as I just saw the queue, quickly scanned for self-service and left
> 
> Will be going there again in a while though as couldn't stop off for shopping earlier and fridge is bare


 
I don't really understand why you would go in there at all given your opposition to it?


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## John Brixton (Sep 3, 2013)

Onket said:


>



Try
http://www.flickr.com/photos/georgeivbrixton/
should be OK!


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## Brixton Hatter (Sep 3, 2013)

John Brixton said:


> Try
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/georgeivbrixton/
> should be OK!


Great picture


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 3, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Great picture
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Brixton Hatter (Sep 3, 2013)

yeah whoops it's looking north, not south!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 4, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> yeah whoops it's looking north, not south!



TFFT!  I know I'm bad at directions, but I was positive looking towards central London was North


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## billythefish (Sep 5, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> TFFT!  I know I'm bad at directions, but I was positive looking towards central London was North


I always get north / south muddled in Brixton... up hill is always north on a map.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 5, 2013)

billythefish said:


> I always get north / south muddled in Brixton... up hill is always north on a map.


yeah I think that's always been my thinking which is why I had to think about Brixton Hatter's post


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## leanderman (Sep 5, 2013)

I also got that picture wrong.

I'm fairly good with compass points. But here, after initially getting north and south confused, I have never managed to right my bearings.


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## Onket (Sep 5, 2013)

Wrong thread, sorry. 

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...al-chat-sept-2013.314531/page-4#post-12528591


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