# Tory Leadership contest 2022



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2022)

And they're off...Nads for PM?


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## strung out (Jun 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> And they're off...Nads for PM?


Won't be off until 6pm tonight at least.


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## brogdale (Jun 6, 2022)

strung out said:


> Won't be off until 6pm tonight at least.


I suspect preparations in the paddocks have been ongoing for some time...


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## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

Will anyone do a John Major and come from relative obscurity to win the next election against the odds, keeping the Tories in power until 2028?


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## kebabking (Jun 6, 2022)

Johnson will just scrape it. He'll be catastrophically damaged, and the next year will be just ever more random culture war announcements, few of which will come to fruition, and he'll finally be ousted in 12 months at the next VONC.

(Urbans' foremost political forecaster, I have correctly predicted some 3 of the last 87 major political events)


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 6, 2022)

It’s a depressingly shit prospect, whoever takes over. They’re all hopeless.


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## brogdale (Jun 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It’s a depressingly shit prospect, whoever takes over. They’re all hopeless.


Worse than that; they're all tories


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## LDC (Jun 6, 2022)

Yeah, I think he'll survive by the skin of his teeth.


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## brogdale (Jun 6, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Johnson will just scrape it. He'll be catastrophically damaged, and the next year will be just ever more random culture war announcements, few of which will come to fruition, and he'll finally be ousted in 12 months at the next VONC.
> 
> (Urbans' foremost political forecaster, I have correctly predicted some 3 of the last 87 major political events)


Been lots of chatter about them 'not being ready' with the replacement yet...so maybe, but I expect those noises have been put out there for all of the their previous VoNCs


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 6, 2022)

it will be hunt _shuddders_

But at least he may clear out the cabinet.


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## emanymton (Jun 6, 2022)

LDC said:


> Yeah, I think he'll survive by the skin of his teeth.


I'm going to stick my neck out and based on nothing whatsoever say 200 votes for him.


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## Zapp Brannigan (Jun 6, 2022)

Brady says arrangements are in place for proxy votes for colleagues who can't be there today.

Who decides who gets to cast the proxy votes?  The cynic in me says either side can weaponise those in a secret ballot expected to be close.


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## steveseagull (Jun 6, 2022)

The one year thing is not set in stone. They can change the rules if they so wish


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## Plumdaff (Jun 6, 2022)

It'll be a close enough win that any other PM would resign but this is Johnson.


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## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Brady says arrangements are in place for proxy votes for colleagues who can't be there today.
> 
> Who decides who gets to cast the proxy votes?  The cynic in me says either side can weaponise those in a secret ballot expected to be close.



Presumably the person who can't vote chooses someone to cast a vote on their behalf, and obviously wouldn't pick someone who has any chance of not voting as they would.


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## Zapp Brannigan (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Presumably the person who can't vote chooses someone to cast a vote on their behalf, and obviously wouldn't pick someone who has any chance of not voting as they would.


True, but they're Tories.  They all have a price.


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## bimble (Jun 6, 2022)

Why now though? Instead of months and months ago. Maybe there is an anointed successor.


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## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> True, but they're Tories.  They all have a price.



It's a secret ballot, so how would that work?


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## bimble (Jun 6, 2022)

Why now though? Instead of months and months ago. Maybe there is an anointed successor.


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## cupid_stunt (Jun 6, 2022)

A some ministers are going to be damaged by their vocal support for Johnson, but many have avoided comment as much as possible, so it's worth looking at how party members rate them, this is from last week.


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## killer b (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Will anyone do a John Major and come from relative obscurity to win the next election against the odds, keeping the Tories in power until 2028?


Ah yes, John Major, who came out of nowhere to clinch the leadership from the relative obscurity of [checks notes] 'chancellor of the exchequer', whatever that is.


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## brogdale (Jun 6, 2022)

If the membership weren't so racist it would the banker Javid.


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## rubbershoes (Jun 6, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> It'll be a close enough win that any other PM would resign but this is Johnson.



Mrs Thatcher won the vote but then the cabinet all told her that her time was up. That's unlikely to happen here as the only criteria for being in Johnson's cabinet is loyalty to him and brexit


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## kabbes (Jun 6, 2022)

It would be properly hilarious if they made Liz Truss prime minister.  For about 2 minutes, before the crashing realisation that Liz Truss is now prime minister.


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## Zapp Brannigan (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> It's a secret ballot, so how would that work?


"I hear you're casting the ballot for <absent colleague>.  Here's a big sack of cash/cushy cabinet job/we won't release the photos* if you vote the right way."

I'm only messing btw, I know there will be some heavy leaning on MPs today but I don't think actual foul play.

*delete as appropriate


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## brogdale (Jun 6, 2022)

kabbes said:


> It would be properly hilarious if they made Liz Truss prime minister.  For about 2 minutes, before the crashing realisation that Liz Truss is now prime minister.


No worries, one of the UK's greatest political minds says blustercunt is safe..


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## rubbershoes (Jun 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> A some ministers are going to be damaged by their vocal support for Johnson, but many have avoided comment as much as possible, so it's worth looking at how party members rate them, this is from last week.
> 
> View attachment 325803



Never heard of Mark Spencer, but I really hope his middle name is Sand


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2022)

bimble said:


> Why now though? Instead of months and months ago. Maybe there is an anointed successor.


because the dam holding back the tide of excrement generated by johnson finally broke. Didn't happen in March thanks to putin.


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## kebabking (Jun 6, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> It'll be a close enough win that any other PM would resign but this is Johnson.



I saw an amusing quip from some Tory hack on twitter:

'He'll technically win, but the rebellion of some 150+ MP's will finish the idea that the government has the confidence of the House - so Graham Brady will visit the PM with a glass of whisky, a revolver, and the message that the time has come to do the decent thing. Unfortunately this is Boris Johnson, so he'll drink the whisky and shoot Brady...'


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## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

I don't see him winning. You heard it here first.


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## kabbes (Jun 6, 2022)

My WAG is that now the venal, cowardly Tory MPs have him on the ropes, they’ll seek to finish him off out of fear of the alternative.


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## Fez909 (Jun 6, 2022)

bimble said:


> Why now though? Instead of months and months ago. Maybe there is an anointed successor.


Corruption, sleaze and being absolutely shit are all totally fine to Tories.

But if the Queen-shaggers boo you then that's it, you're obviously not the right kind of cunt for them.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 6, 2022)

I think I want Johnson to scrape through, with the ensuing mess making the tories more toxic by the day.


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## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

bimble said:


> Why now though? Instead of months and months ago. Maybe there is an anointed successor.



Because there isn't an anointed successor, now Sunak is down. They each have hope of choosing their favourite now.


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## bimble (Jun 6, 2022)

Fez909 said:


> Corruption, sleaze and being absolutely shit are all totally fine to Tories.
> 
> But if the Queen-shaggers boo you then that's it, you're obviously not the right kind of cunt for them.


Yep was wondering if that shocked and motivated them.


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## Elpenor (Jun 6, 2022)

I reckon Shapps is the dark horse if there’s a contest. Seen as loyal to Johnson, could conceivably package himself as a new variant of Cameron for a post Brexit era and unite both wings of the party (the one nation and the fruitloops)


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## kabbes (Jun 6, 2022)

Fez909 said:


> Corruption, sleaze and being absolutely shit are all totally fine to Tories.
> 
> But if the Queen-shaggers boo you then that's it, you're obviously not the right kind of cunt for them.


I think the votes were already in before the booing.


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## andysays (Jun 6, 2022)

Fez909 said:


> Corruption, sleaze and being absolutely shit are all totally fine to Tories.
> 
> *But if the Queen-shaggers boo you then that's it, you're obviously not the right kind of cunt for them.*



While this is true, it appears that enough letters had been submitted before the Jubilee weekend and Brady waited until last night to tell Johnson and this morning to announce it publicly.


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## prunus (Jun 6, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I reckon Shapps is the dark horse if there’s a contest. Seen as loyal to Johnson, could conceivably package himself as a new variant of Cameron for a post Brexit era and unite both wings of the party (the one nation and the fruitloops)



Oh good god no. An actual confidence trickster (rather than narcissistic personality disordered liar which is what we have now).


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## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2022)

Last time Gove put himself  forward as a contender an incredibly well timed 'Gove is a coke fiend' story hit the papers so I'll be interested to see if he bothers this time round and if the same thing happens. (should they get rid of Johnon)


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## Elpenor (Jun 6, 2022)

prunus said:


> Oh good god no. An actual confidence trickster (rather than narcissistic personality disordered liar which is what we have now).


Exactly the sort of person who would put himself forward


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## rubbershoes (Jun 6, 2022)

DotCommunist said:


> Last time Gove put himself  forward as a contender an incredibly well timed 'Gove is a coke fiend' story hit the papers so I'll be interested to see if he bothers this time round and if the same thing happens. (should they get rid of Johnon)



That video of him in a club wasn't likely to endear him to most tory MPs. And they're the ones who'll be deciding if we have a new PM, and who it will be


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 6, 2022)

I'm pretty confident he'll win it tonight.


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## ouirdeaux (Jun 6, 2022)

It's a fresh hell every time someone mentions a new name, isn't it?


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## Petcha (Jun 6, 2022)

Yes, he's gonna win. Personally I'd like Zahawi to get it though if the unlikely happens. He's very very smart and having met him a couple of times he actually seems fairly sound.


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## marty21 (Jun 6, 2022)

He'll win - but not by much - and he'll hang on til an election - might actually call an election sooner.


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## newbie (Jun 6, 2022)

abp

anyone but patel


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## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

Why does everyone think he'll win?


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## MickiQ (Jun 6, 2022)

I think he has sold his soul to the devil, I expect him to win by the skin of his teeth. If I'm proven wrong then I will allow myself a small amount of gloating before I start wondering who the fuck will replace him.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Why does everyone think he'll win?


Because look at the alternatives


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## marty21 (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Why does everyone think he'll win?


well for one thing, there are about 170 odd Tory MPs who have some kind of government role.


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## Elpenor (Jun 6, 2022)

Winning but hit below the waterline, slowly taking on water and at reduced power. Scuttled at sea is my prediction.

And hopefully the metaphor is borne out by events too


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## LDC (Jun 6, 2022)

kabbes said:


> It would be properly hilarious if they made Liz Truss prime minister.  For about 2 minutes, before the crashing realisation that Liz Truss is now prime minister.



Dream team of her, Dorries as Chancellor, and Rees-Mogg as something, no idea what... Foreign Secretary in pith helmet and safari shorts? Oh I forgot Fabricant, him as Education maybe. Winning for the UK.

I feel like the world is totally insane this morning. The TV in the gym was showing some morning program that was fawning over the Royals as being in touch with the public and cost of living crisis as they were wearing older outfits or something, and then Radio 4 was covering what the Queen has in her handbag apart from marmalade sandwiches.

Come Russian bombs, I for one think it might be better than this sometimes.

(TBF the in-laws have been staying over the weekend, a nuclear apocalypse started to look appealing about Sunday mid-afternoon.)


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## Elpenor (Jun 6, 2022)

LDC said:


> Dream team of her, Dorries as Chancellor, and Rees-Mogg as something, no idea what... Foreign Secretary in pith helmet and safari shorts?


JRM would rename it Secretary of State for the colonies and dominions or similar I imagine


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## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

marty21 said:


> well for one thing, there are about 170 odd Tory MPs who have some kind of government role.



In a public vote they might want to show their loyalty so they can retain their roles if he wins, but there's no benefit to showing your loyalty in a secret ballot. If they think they'll have better long-term career chances i.e. after the next election by voting him out, that's what they'll do.


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## marty21 (Jun 6, 2022)

LDC said:


> Dream team of her, Dorries as Chancellor, and Rees-Mogg as something, no idea what... Foreign Secretary in pith helmet and safari shorts?


there's a reason that JRM is leader of the house - he'd be shite actually meeting important foreign folk


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## marty21 (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> In a public vote they might want to show their loyalty so they can retain their roles if he wins, but there's no benefit to showing your loyalty in a secret ballot. If they think they'll have better long-term career chances i.e. after the next election by voting him out, that's what they'll do.


Long-term career chances are slight - the Tories aren't going to win the next election - so another 2 years and a bit of government (if he doesn't call an early election) and then hoping for some corporate shillings afterwards - new boss, new broom .


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## kebabking (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Why does everyone think he'll win?



1. Because who comes after him is up in the air: if you're a Brexit fanatic, and many of them can't stand him, then a Hunt or Tugendhat PM might not be to your liking, and if you're relatively sensible a Liz Truss PM probably doesn't appeal.

2. There are many in the PCP who understand that Johnson and his loyalty cult is their only opportunity for office/influence. He may lose them their seat in 2 years, but that's two years of some movement in both career and political objectives, rather than none.


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## steeplejack (Jun 6, 2022)

Best result is for blustercunt to hang on by 10-20 votes. He will absolutely refuse to leave office then and the Tory party will sink with him at the next election.


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## Jeff Robinson (Jun 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think I want Johnson to scrape through, with the ensuing mess making the tories more toxic by the day.



Yeah it’s weird. I’ve been waiting with glee to see his downfall for about two decades now, but the accelerationist in me is loving how toxic he’s become for the Tory brand. My hunch is he’s for the chop tho


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 6, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Yeah it’s weird. I’ve been wanting with glee to see his downfall for about two decades now, but the accelerationist in me is loving how toxic he’s become for the Tory brand. My hunch is he’s for the chop tho


I’d rather see him fail by losing an 80 seat majority than a knife in the back.


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## ouirdeaux (Jun 6, 2022)

LDC said:


> I feel like the world is totally insane this morning.



I've had that feeling since the Brexit vote. The election of Trump, and then Johnson, and then the responses to Covid have only strengthened this impression.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Will anyone do a John Major and come from relative obscurity to win the next election against the odds, keeping the Tories in power until 2028?


what, the john major who had held the junior posts of chancellor of the exchequer and foreign secretary?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I don't see him winning. You heard it here first.


we'll see, and if he wins you'll never be allowed to forget it


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## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think I want Johnson to scrape through, with the ensuing mess making the tories more toxic by the day.


yeh 52/48 split would be grand


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## existentialist (Jun 6, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> "I hear you're casting the ballot for <absent colleague>.  Here's a big sack of cash/cushy cabinet job/we won't release the photos* if you vote the right way."
> 
> I'm only messing btw, I know there will be some heavy leaning on MPs today but I don't think actual foul play.
> 
> *delete as appropriate


I'm less optimistic than you. I think "they" (whoever "they" are) will be doing some pretty unrestricted armtwisting and worse to get the outcome they want.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm pretty confident he'll win it tonight.


why? all the lobby hacks are going with "too close to call".

My feeling is that he will be out. Otherwise it will just drag on and on - they may well have wanted it at another time and with a viable replacement ready to go - but they are where they are. And its not a given that he can rely on the payroll either - its a secret ballot.


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## Raheem (Jun 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> what, the john major who had held the junior posts of chancellor of the exchequer and foreign secretary?


Tbf, there was something about him that made him seem like an obscure figure even when he was pm.


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## bluescreen (Jun 6, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> It's a fresh hell every time someone mentions a new name, isn't it?


Yup.
La Truss has clearly been practising in front of the mirror for years, and she must have been taking elocution lessons because she's starting to curb her uptalk. 
She might be popular with the members - I have no idea, I don't think I know any Tory members - but will she get that far?

Jesse Norman's letter shows that Johnson dangled the prospect of running a ministry in front of him when he quit his Treasury post last year. The Old Etonian's alleged reasons for quitting are set out in this Torygraph article and perhaps look a bit clearer in retrospect. 
Paywall busted:  
Jesse Norman quit the Treasury over Boris Johnson’s bid for more diversity​Norman is married to Kate Bingham.


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## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Long-term career chances are slight - the Tories aren't going to win the next election - so another 2 years and a bit of government (if he doesn't call an early election) and then hoping for some corporate shillings afterwards - new boss, new broom .



A lot of those “on the payroll” aren’t actually getting paid anything extra, and plenty of them will fancy their chances of a more senior role under a new PM. Far better to lose the next election having been in cabinet for two years than simply having carried on in an existing minor role.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2022)

If he goes I can see his replacement as being someone from outside the cabinet - the whole "new broom" impetus will be strong. And I cant see the  likes of  nadine dorris, rees mogg and patel surviving under  a new leader.


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## marty21 (Jun 6, 2022)

Must admit , I love a Tory war 🤣 there seems to be a narrative that it's revenge for Brexit , which doesn't make sense , given he won the election on the back of the red wall vote and most, if not all, of those red wall MPs were pro brexit , plus a load of "remoaner" Tories weren't selected .


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 6, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> why? all the lobby hacks are going with "too close to call".
> 
> My feeling is that he will be out. Otherwise it will just drag on and on - they may well have wanted it at another time and with a viable replacement ready to go - but they are where they are. And its not a given that he can rely on the payroll either - its a secret ballot.



The list of openly supporting quotes by tory MPs John Stevens at the daily mail is doing on twitter suggests he still has the backing of the majority.

I mean sure I could be wrong - it's a secret ballot an all, but it would be in keeping with how totally out of touch the conservatives are.


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## marty21 (Jun 6, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> A lot of those “on the payroll” aren’t actually getting paid anything extra, and plenty of them will fancy their chances of a more senior role under a new PM. Far better to lose the next election having been in cabinet for two years than simply having carried on in an existing minor role.


Gamble either way really , they don't know who will take over.


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## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Gamble either way really , they don't know who will take over.



They've already banked their existing job titles on their CVs, so there's nothing to lose really.


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## AverageJoe (Jun 6, 2022)

He'll walk it. All the Tory MPs are interested in is keeping their jobs. The ones that triggered the vote might leave, or more interestingly set up a new party/join other parties, but at the end of the day noone who is employed by the government is going to vote against their paymaster.

Boris will use this to draw a line under everything that's happened over the last two years. No more enquiries into "trivial" matters,  just "now let's look forward..."

Which is depressing.

Also, bookies odds on him surviving are 1/4 on. Bookies are rarely wrong.


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## Supine (Jun 6, 2022)

I do hope Nadine throws her hat in the ring


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2022)

> Tory MPs have been told that if they take a picture of their ballot paper their vote will be invalid, ITV’s *Anushka Asthana* reports. Sir Graham Brady, the chair of the Conservative 1922 Committee, has stressed this to ensure that MPs do not come under pressure from No 10 to produce evidence that they actually did vote for Boris Johnson.
> 
> 
> New- just seen an interesting email to MPs from Sir Graham Brady- who is running tonight’s confidence vote as chair of the 1922 committee. A big warning about it being confidential- and no pics of ballot papers to be taken or vote void pic.twitter.com/YuAz2lFVlY
> ...


interesting intervention.


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## Sasaferrato (Jun 6, 2022)

He will survive. 

Mainly because there is no obvious replacement, anywhere in the house.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Winning but hit below the waterline, slowly taking on water and at reduced power. Scuttled at sea is my prediction.
> 
> And hopefully the metaphor is borne out by events too


tory prime minister go fuck yourself


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## MickiQ (Jun 6, 2022)

I've absolutely no idea who will replace him if he goes. Sunak's star after months of unstoppable climbing has suddenly sunk like the Titanic so I imagine it will be someone I've probably never heard of. 
I still err on the side of he'll survive. They've still got two and a half years before the next election so still time to turf him out next year and get someone new in place.
I have to admit it will be good if he does lose. He is such a smug entitled cunt that his ego may not be able to handle it.


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## Nine Bob Note (Jun 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> I do hope Nadine throws her hat in the ring



Doris couldn’t be reached for comment as she’s out buying a new hat


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## Supine (Jun 6, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Doris couldn’t be reached for comment as she’s out buying a new hat



Dunces hat i’d expect


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## BCBlues (Jun 6, 2022)

So if he wins the rules are that we are all stuck with him for another year, but, the rules can be changed.
Be hilarious if they did change them, Johnson style, so that there is another vote next week and every week thereafter until he runs from the building, on fire, screaming.


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## kebabking (Jun 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> He will survive.
> 
> Mainly because there is no obvious replacement, anywhere in the house.



Rubbish. 

A central tenet of Johnson's political strategy is 'they're all the same', as a method of blunting any desire for change. to fall for it means accepting that all politicians are as venal, greedy, disorganised, dishonest, un-motivated by a political philosophy - and that most importantly, if everyone is equally bad, Johnson may as well stay there.

Your problem is that you cast your disillusionment with the Tories as a disillusionment with all politicians and all politics - you find it easier to say 'they're all shit, and all as bad as each other', than to accept that _you_ held on to something that was rotten far longer than you should have.

I doubt there are more than a dozen MP's who are _more_ corrupt, more indolent, more self-obsessed than Johnson, and perhaps another two dozen as corrupt, indolent and self-obsessed than him.  That leaves 600+: 300 or so might be clinically stupid/headbangers, with perhaps 300 left as relatively normal, reasonably sentient, and with higher moral standards than Johnson.

A dozen+ leap out, but there are probably 200+ who would make a better job of it.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 6, 2022)

This time in 2023, in a bid to distract everyone from his latest faux pas in which he drunkenly flattened a homeless person with a steam roller outside Downing Street while shouting "death to the poors, you can quote me on that," Bojo announces he will be invading Australia to avenge the republican snub to Queen Elizabeth. The British public, now thoroughly used to this sort of thing, shrug vaguely while donning their pith helmets, as mandated by the Re-enactment Bill 2022.


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## marty21 (Jun 6, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> interesting intervention.


I suspect there are a lot of Boris' staff who are bricking it - once he goes, they are soiled goods


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## not a trot (Jun 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> I do hope Nadine throws her hat in the ring



Prefer her to throw it under a bus, whilst still wearing it.


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## andysays (Jun 6, 2022)

First significant move from a potential contender?

Jeremy Hunt: I will vote against Johnson



> Former Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, tipped as a possible leadership contender, has said he will be voting "for change" in this evening's ballot.
> 
> Hunt says he wanted to avoid a confidence vote during the Ukraine war, but the party must now decide its future. "Having been trusted with power, Conservative MPs know in our hearts we are not giving the British people the leadership they deserve," he says.
> 
> "We are not offering the integrity, competence and vision necessary to unleash the enormous potential of our country. And because we are no longer trusted by the electorate, who know this too, we are set to lose the next general election."


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## marty21 (Jun 6, 2022)

andysays said:


> First significant move from a potential contender?
> 
> Jeremy Hunt: I will vote against Johnson


Safe to make an announcement now - he isn't the one who prompted the vote (although I'd guess he did send in a letter)  . Bit of a risk too - could swing some votes from Boris out to , fuck not Hunt, I'll keep Boris.


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## Sasaferrato (Jun 6, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Rubbish.
> 
> A central tenet of Johnson's political strategy is 'they're all the same', as a method of blunting any desire for change. to fall for it means accepting that all politicians are as venal, greedy, disorganised, dishonest, un-motivated by a political philosophy - and that most importantly, if everyone is equally bad, Johnson may as well stay there.
> 
> ...


Do you see Starmer as a PM? 

With the millstone of hard left Rayner round his neck?

Sunak? 

Patel?

Hunt?

FFS, no. 

The quality and competence of everything falls year by year, but the quality of politicians is in freefall. There are people sitting in the house who have never had a commercial job. 

How the fuck can someone who has gone the Oxbridge PPE 2:2, work as researcher for MP, unwinnable to get blooded, winnable, seat in the Commons have the slightest inkling of what life is like for ordinary people?


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## andysays (Jun 6, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Safe to make an announcement now - he isn't the one who prompted the vote (although I'd guess he did send in a letter)  . Bit of a risk too - could swing some votes from Boris out to , fuck not Hunt, I'll keep Boris.


I'm just guessing, obviously, but I can't see the prospect of Hunt as leader scaring that many of those MPs who are already thinking seriously about ditching Johnson.

Could be wrong of course (and I'm certainly not saying he's a sure thing to win)


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## maomao (Jun 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> hard left Rayner


😂


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## Smangus (Jun 6, 2022)

The tory membership will not vote for Hunt as he is viewed as a traitorous remainer.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jun 6, 2022)

Smangus said:


> The tory membership will not vote for Hunt as he is viewed as a traitorous remainer.



I'm not a member, but if I were I wouldn't vote for Hunt because of what he did to the NHS.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Do you see Starmer as a PM?
> 
> With the millstone of hard left Rayner round his neck?
> 
> ...


i'm not sure that what life is like for ordinary people is of any great interest to anyone on the conservative benches


----------



## Smangus (Jun 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I'm not a member, but if I were I wouldn't vote for Hunt because of what he did to the NHS.



Not sure the average rank and file give a shit about the NHS now , it's all Brexit and anti-immigration with a dash of net zero frothing, pro-fracking and Rwanda for keeps.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jun 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not sure that what life is like for ordinary people is of any great interest to anyone on the conservative benches



Or Labour either I don't think.


----------



## ouirdeaux (Jun 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I'm not a member, but if I were I wouldn't vote for Hunt because of what he did to the NHS.



So whom would you vote for?


----------



## gosub (Jun 6, 2022)

fingers crossed.   Otherwise


platinumsage said:


> Will anyone do a John Major and come from relative obscurity to win the next election against the odds, keeping the Tories in power until 2028?


He


andysays said:


> I'm just guessing, obviously, but I can't see the prospect of Hunt as leader scaring that many of those MPs who are already thinking seriously about ditching Johnson.
> 
> Could be wrong of course (and I'm certainly not saying he's a sure thing to win)


I go the other way.  Have found it scary that none of greasy pole merchants have stuck their head above the parapet til now. 

I agree with what the Queen "why would anybody want that job?" but they usually do. Things have to be pretty fucked up for no one to want the poisoned chalice


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> hard left Rayner


If you think Rayner is hard left you should be terrified of most of the people on this board tbh. She's well to the right of the majority perspective here.


----------



## gosub (Jun 6, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> So whom would you vote for?


I really don't nt see urban75 and torys having much intersection on who or what they look for in a leader 


It's a popcorn and deckchair moment with a potential chance of a celebratory pint depending on how it goes.  


It would be good to have a genuine excuse for a party.  Haven't really had one in ages


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jun 6, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> If you think Rayner is hard left you should be terrified of most of the people on this board tbh. She's well to the right of the majority perspective here.



Thanks for the info. Most revealing, I would never have guessed that.    then again, I've only been here coming up for twenty years.

I view a lot of posters much as I view the SWP or CPGB, earnest and genuinely well meaning, but never going to be elected to anything.


----------



## Supine (Jun 6, 2022)

Enemy on enemy action kicking off


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 6, 2022)

The best Tory leader is one with no ideas, little influence to get anything done and whose tenure is marked by sleaze and embarrassing political dramas. 

So Boris wouldn't be a bad fit if he could stop coming up with idiot plans like sending migrants to Rwanda every five minutes...


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Thanks for the info. Most revealing, I would never have guessed that.    then again, I've only been here coming up for twenty years.
> 
> I view a lot of posters much as I view the SWP or CPGB, earnest and genuinely well meaning, but never going to be elected to anything.


If you've learned so little in 20 years here that you'd still call Angela Rayner hard left that's tremendously sad.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jun 6, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> If you've learned so little in 20 years here that you'd still call Angela Rayner hard left that's tremendously sad.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2022)

Wonder if any of the cabinet will resign today? Who hasnt tweeted support yet? Gove knifing the barf bag again would be hilarious.


----------



## maomao (Jun 6, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> The best Tory leader is one with no ideas, little influence to get anything done and whose tenure is marked by sleaze and embarrassing political dramas.
> 
> So Boris wouldn't be a bad fit if he could stop coming up with idiot plans like sending migrants to Rwanda every five minutes...


Even that's not him, it's the people he employs. 

I also prefer Boris to any of the others mentioned, including Starmer.


----------



## Fairweather (Jun 6, 2022)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2022)

> The Daily Mail’s *John Stevens *has a long Twitter thread noting Tory MPs who have publicly said they will vote for Boris Johnson tonight. He is currently on 79.
> 
> 
> 79) Jonathan Gullis I AM BACKING BORIS   My views on why... - Jonathan Gullis MP| By Jonathan Gullis MP
> — John Stevens (@johnestevens) June 6, 2022



79 does not seem many - they've had a fair few hours to get in their craven spinelessness.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 6, 2022)

Nadine's own efforts are scarcely better than the skit. She's currently going after Jeremy Hunt for er ... mismanaging Covid preparations.


----------



## a_chap (Jun 6, 2022)




----------



## kebabking (Jun 6, 2022)

Yup - so despite this being in the air all weekend, and Johnson knowing about it for the last 24 hours, only _half_ of the government - less, given that there's a fair number of back benchers also tweeting their support - saying they support the boss....

I still think he'll get the numbers to stay, but that's a marked lack of enthusiasm.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Do you see Starmer as a PM?
> 
> With the millstone of hard left Rayner round his neck?
> 
> ...


----------



## Petcha (Jun 6, 2022)

Christ. If you'd told me 5 or so years ago I'd find myself one day agreeing with Jeremy Hunt on _anything_ I'd not believe you. That's how fucked up the situation is. That even if Hunt was PM it would be better than this twat. 









						Jeremy Hunt urges Tory MPs to vote no confidence in Boris Johnson
					

Former minister says Tory party is set to lose next election because of lack of integrity, competence and vision




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 6, 2022)

Can we keep the discussion about Johnson to the main thread, as stuff is now being duplicated here & there.

Keep this on topic, i.e. any leadership contest, should be happen.


----------



## ouirdeaux (Jun 6, 2022)

gosub said:


> It's a popcorn and deckchair moment with a potential chance of a celebratory pint depending on how it goes.



I'd like to think so, but what outcome would you consider worthy of a celebratory pint? I was planning to seek oblivion in some consolatory whisky, whatever happens.


----------



## gosub (Jun 6, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> I'd like to think so, but what outcome would you consider worthy of a celebratory pint? I was planning to seek oblivion in some consolatory whisky, whatever happens.


Boris not being PM when the Parliamentary enquiry into whether he mislead parliament would be good. especially since if he doesn't go will be another b4 they get rid


----------



## MrSki (Jun 6, 2022)

An amusing thread on the runners & riders in any leadership contest.


----------



## steeplejack (Jun 6, 2022)

Bookies currently have 100-149 votes against as the likeliest tally with 150-199 not far behind.

Someone on twitter pointing out that May had far more pledges of support at this stage than Johnson in her VONC. This was about an hour ago- Johnson by then had only 82 pledges. A bit like a dismal one day team falling badly behind the run rate.

Johnson will win by the Duckworth-Lewis method...a perfect outcome really, sparking off a similar period of cats-in-a-sack infighting that plagued Major after the Redwood leadership challenge in 1995.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 6, 2022)

Think a proportion of those declaring their support for Johnson will also be voting against him.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jun 6, 2022)

Has this been posted yet?


----------



## steeplejack (Jun 6, 2022)

The worry is if he loses and is replaced not by someone from his mad praetorian guard (Patel / Dorries /Javid et al) or an obvious idiot like Truss, but instead by a plausible, nicely pressed trousers, correct side-parting, saying _"Now Look Here..."_ in a booming army major voice like Tugendhat, the Tories might be able to move on effectively, as the opposition in the HoC is so comically shit.

I think if he goes today the "possible prosecution / jail time" dial twitches increasingly towards a "possible" rather than "absolutely no chance".


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> The worry is if he loses and is replaced not by someone from his mad praetorian guard (Patel / Dorries /Javid et al) or an obvious idiot like Truss, but instead by a plausible, nicely pressed trousers, correct side-parting, saying _"Now Look Here..."_ in a booming army major voice like Tugendhat, the Tories might be able to move on effectively, as the opposition in the HoC is so comically shit.
> 
> I think if he goes today the "possible prosecution / jail time" dial twitches increasingly towards a "possible" ratehr than "absolutely no chance".


there will be twitches among the swivel-eyed whether he stays or goes. if he goes there will be trouble but if he stays it will be double, as the clash would have sung


----------



## ouirdeaux (Jun 6, 2022)

That song always made me question the methodology of the measurement.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> That song always made me question the methodology of the measurement.


i suspect it was never intended to be exact but indicative


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 6, 2022)

Snap poll from yougov -

If Boris Johnson were deposed, who would Conservative members want to succeed him? 

Ben Wallace: 12% 
Liz Truss: 11% 
Jeremy Hunt: 10% 
Penny Mordaunt: 8% 
Rishi Sunak / Michael Gove: =7% 
Priti Patel: 6% 
Tom Tugendhat/Nadhim Zahawi: =5% 
Dominic Raab: 4%



			https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/kl6i0gpr2q/Internal_ConservativePartyMembers_VoteOfNoConfidence_220606_w.pdf
		


Interesting that Wallace is top, but Truss just behind, seriously?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Snap poll from yougov -
> 
> If Boris Johnson were deposed, who would Conservative members want to succeed him?
> 
> ...


most of the people saying ben wallace were thinking of gregg wallace
most of the people saying liz truss were thinking of lynn truss
they will be horrified if they elect either of those mps thinking they were getting someone else


----------



## Raheem (Jun 6, 2022)

Most of the people saying Liz Truss were thinking "How does a bottomless pot of tea hold the tea in?"


----------



## chilango (Jun 6, 2022)

If they choose a bland man with a haircut and low taxes then Labour's entire strategy is fucked.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 6, 2022)

chilango said:


> If they choose a bland man with a haircut and low taxes then Labour's entire strategy is fucked.



Never the less they voted for Starmer and must live with him.


----------



## steeplejack (Jun 6, 2022)

Ben Wallace also fits into the "booming-voiced ex-army officer" category. Not much profile, but again a plausible "decent" or "honourable" successor which would enable the Tories to lock Johnson in an ignominious flotation tank and push him off Land's End in the general direction of America.


----------



## prunus (Jun 6, 2022)

Erm...


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2022)

prunus said:


> Erm...



He really is a fucking arrogant odious cunt. Surely that's got to do it for him know!


----------



## elbows (Jun 6, 2022)

Ross to vote against:









						Scottish Tories deserted Boris Johnson in confidence motion
					

Four of the six MPs voted against the prime minister, with two supporting him, including Scottish Secretary Alister Jack.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## tommers (Jun 6, 2022)

I'd like it to be Mordaunt, just cos she sounds like a Harry Potter villain.


----------



## steeplejack (Jun 6, 2022)

elbows said:


> Ross to vote against:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The obese racist linesman scrambles for relevance, as always- his fourth shape-shift on the topic


----------



## kebabking (Jun 6, 2022)

A bit of historical context from the Times...


----------



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2022)

Shy cunties, or is project blustercunt on the rocks?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 6, 2022)

Already posted on the Johnson thread.

I don't get why people keep posting about Johnson on this thread, which is supposed to be about what comes next if there's a leadership contest.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Already posted on the Johnson thread.
> 
> I don't get why people keep posting about Johnson on this thread, which is supposed to be about what comes next if there's a leadership contest.


My bad...just got in from diff day & striating to drink what I hope turns out to be quite a large amount of beer.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> most of the people saying ben wallace were thinking of gregg wallace



or were thinking of someone with a northern, small business sort of background to keep the 'red wall' voters happy


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2022)

Public positions:


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 6, 2022)




----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



A *black *Lacey one by all accounts.  
She's off to a ball apparently.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 6, 2022)

Sequin encrusted heels.

I hope she gives him the mwaa mwaa air kiss and a _how devine to see you here darling_...


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> A *black *Lacey one by all accounts.
> She's off to a ball apparently.


Someone said ' I hope she turns up in a Diana revenge dress' but I can't find it.?
Whoever called it 👏


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 6, 2022)




----------



## Supine (Jun 6, 2022)

Who has setup a sound system outside number 10?


----------



## gosub (Jun 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> Who has setup a sound system outside number 10?


probably a leaving do in the garden.  Some of them can get quite lary apparently


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> Who has setup a sound system outside number 10?


Money is on Steve Bray.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2022)

Kit malthouse on sky news, ' he's going to get a thumping victory and go and fight crime' 
Getting Johnson and batman confused there.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2022)

Dehena headbanger Davison has voted against him! Red wall seat in North east.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 6, 2022)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> Who has setup a sound system outside number 10?



Gove, probably.


----------



## elbows (Jun 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> Who has setup a sound system outside number 10?



Cummings mobile disco services Ltd.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 6, 2022)

Absolutely hilarious.  Wins in a 60/40 split


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 6, 2022)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 6, 2022)

This thread needs closing now, there's no leadership contest, and people are only duplicating posts from the correct thread.









						PM Boris Johnson - monster thread for a monster twat
					

Perfect result. Let the tory battle royale commence :thumbs:  Now there's an idea to conjure with!




					www.urban75.net


----------



## Smangus (Jun 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> This thread needs closing now, there's no leadership contest, and people are only duplicating posts from the correct thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Double the schadenfreude mind


----------



## magneze (Jun 6, 2022)

There is a leadership contest. It's just not official yet.


----------



## marty21 (Jun 6, 2022)

148 ! He's a dead man walking.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> This thread needs closing now, there's no leadership contest, and people are only duplicating posts from the correct thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


they're only duplicating content from twitter anyway, so why not do it twice?


----------



## hash tag (Jul 7, 2022)

I gather Penny Mordaunt is coming quietly up the rear Penny Mordaunt MP, Portsmouth North


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 7, 2022)

Liz Truss remarkably silent over the past few days.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 7, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> Liz Truss remarkably silent over the past few days.



She's on an overseas visit, otherwise it would be very odd.


----------



## killer b (Jul 7, 2022)

Conservative Home have Ben Wallace as the frontrunner by a distance apparently, with Morduant and Truss in 2 and 3


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 7, 2022)

Johnson has been so shit that there could be dozens thinking they could do a better job


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 7, 2022)

The best thing about the phantom leadership contest in early June was that Hunt managed to alienate lots of his colleagues and now has much-reduced chances.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 7, 2022)

it really wouldn't surprise me if Boris tried to run yet again


----------



## killer b (Jul 7, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> it really wouldn't surprise me if Boris tried to run yet again


chances of him getting to the last two seem slim


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jul 7, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> it really wouldn't surprise me if Boris tried to run yet again


I reckon that's why he want to be caretaker still, even after it's been made abundantly clear that only Dorries wants him.  Spend the intervening month whipping up his supposed 14m personal mandate into a frenzy so he can claim to be the popular choice of the people.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 7, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> it really wouldn't surprise me if Boris tried to run yet again



He can't stand, that's the rules.


----------



## killer b (Jul 7, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> He can't stand, that's the rules.


is it? Thought that was only if he lost a no confidence vote?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 7, 2022)

Seems like they can change the rules a lot more easily than the Labour party, so it doesn't really matter what the current rules are they might be different next week.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 7, 2022)

killer b said:


> is it? Thought that was only if he lost a no confidence vote?



You could be right, but the Metro says, 'It is unlikely. Under the rules, a leader who resigns is not normally eligible to contest any subsequent leadership election.'

But, he will not anyway, because it would not get into the final two.









						The end of Boris Johnson: What happens next?
					

The Prime Minister has finally accepted he's no longer wanted.




					metro.co.uk


----------



## killer b (Jul 7, 2022)

Granted it was a while ago and the rules have changed since, but Major resigned as leader then ran in and won in the subsequent leadership election


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> I reckon that's why he want to be caretaker still, even after it's been made abundantly clear that only Dorries wants him.  Spend the intervening month whipping up his supposed 14m personal mandate into a frenzy so he can claim to be the popular choice of the people.


dorries and therese coffey


----------



## marty21 (Jul 7, 2022)

So now we have months of the candidates distancing themselves from the man who won the election 😀


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 7, 2022)

not sure about the latest member to throw his hat in the ring


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 7, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> She's on an overseas visit, otherwise it would be very odd.


Weird how she's just now decided to cut the trip short and make a statement.


----------



## Sue (Jul 7, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Johnson has been so shit that there could be dozens thinking they could do a better job


My friend's dog could do a better job. And would at least be honest about doing pretty much anything for cheese.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 7, 2022)

Suella Braverman announced her candidacy on R4 Today this morning. If there was anyone less competent than Johnson to fulfil the role of PM then it would be her. Deluded.


----------



## elbows (Jul 7, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Suella Braverman announced her candidacy on R4 Today this morning. If there was anyone less competent than Johnson to fulfil the role of PM then it would be her. Deluded.


She announced it first on Peston the previous evening.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 7, 2022)

I rekon steve baker is in with a shout - not tainted by association with Johnson - so new broom and all that , keeper of the brexit/thatchertie flame (so will be popular with the membership). Will be shit - but his hard brexit/thatcherite ideology may come unstuck pretty quickly when it collides with the reality of economic mire and people eating out of bins.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 7, 2022)

Baker has never been in cabinet so I don't see it.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 7, 2022)

Zahawi is my pick. He's a good man as far as I know, and highly competent. What I found quite amusing over the last few days was the polls usually referred to in the media reflecting how fucked Boris was were conducted by YouGov, the company he founded.

But having met a few of these fuckers, he's the pick of them. 'Interesting' move to take over like Chancellor like that though. I'd like to think it was a chess move in order to release his statement this morning.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 7, 2022)

TBH my attitude is a plague on all your houses.
I suspect that they are most likely to go for someone who has never been in the  Cabinet or hasn't been recently, the current shower of shit are all tainted by their association with BoZo.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 7, 2022)

Sue said:


> My friend's dog could do a better job. And would at least be honest about doing pretty much anything for cheese.


What is the dog's position on the Northern Ireland protocol? And is he a good boy ?


----------



## marty21 (Jul 7, 2022)

And of course, we all know that Boris going is all part of a MSM /remainer plot to reverse Brexit .🤣🤣🤣


----------



## marty21 (Jul 7, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Zahawi is my pick. He's a good man as far as I know, and highly competent. What I found quite amusing over the last few days was the polls usually referred to in the media reflecting how fucked Boris was were conducted by YouGov, the company he founded.
> 
> But having met a few of these fuckers, he's the pick of them. 'Interesting' move to take over like Chancellor like that though. I'd like to think it was a chess move in order to release his statement this morning.


He's certainly ruthless , thanks for the job Boris , now fuck off.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 7, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Suella Braverman announced her candidacy on R4 Today this morning. If there was anyone less competent than Johnson to fulfil the role of PM then it would be her. Deluded.





elbows said:


> She announced it first on Peston the previous evening.



Yes, no. Always a pleasure to speak to the Today programme. Go live on air now? Yes, of course, I'd be delighted to. 

Martha, my pleasure, nice to be with you.

Yes. Before I answer that, may I just say
how delighted I am, as indeed we all are, at the excitement and enthusiasm that the
PM's pending resignation has created.

I announced at an appearance on Preston my new leadership bid, called...Sponge Avengers.


----------



## Knotted (Jul 7, 2022)

Looking like the relatively unknown Ben Wallace might be next PM.


----------



## krink (Jul 7, 2022)

Can we have a poll for our predictions? Mine is Sajid Javid. But they're all cunts anyway.


----------



## Sue (Jul 7, 2022)

marty21 said:


> What is the dog's position on the Northern Ireland protocol? And is he a good boy ?


About as coherent as the Tory Party's to be honest. He's quite a naughty boy but can be easily bribed with cheese so cheaper than those other fuckers.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 7, 2022)

I think Ben Wallace might take it - but Raab may get a trial run as care-taker PM - as the Tories don't trust Boris and want rid of him asap


----------



## killer b (Jul 7, 2022)

Didn't Raab say he wasn't going to run? There's also no way they'd let someone who's planning on running be caretaker during the campaign anyway


----------



## killer b (Jul 7, 2022)

Does anyone know anything about Wallace? He's my MP and I know precisely nothing about him other than the tories love him


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 7, 2022)

No caretaker imo, it's just too difficult to arrange. They'd prefer to just clip Johnson's wings as much as possible.


----------



## Sue (Jul 7, 2022)

killer b said:


> Does anyone know anything about Wallace? He's my MP and I know precisely nothing about him *other than the tories love him*


Thats probably enough tbh.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 7, 2022)

killer b said:


> Didn't Raab say he wasn't going to run? There's also no way they'd let someone who's planning on running be caretaker during the campaign anyway


if he doesn't run, then he can be caretaker - he'll be a disaster anyway so wouldn't help his campaign even if he did run


----------



## ska invita (Jul 7, 2022)

Who is Ben Wallace? The new favourite for prime minister | ITV News
					

Ben Wallace is the clear favourite to replace Boris Johnson as the next Conservative party leader, according to a new poll. | ITV News Granada




					www.itv.com
				







ETA: already posted :grrrr:


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 7, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> No caretaker imo, it's just too difficult to arrange. They'd prefer to just clip Johnson's wings as much as possible.


think they'd prefer him to fuck off as soon as possible. like this evening. his "im great - and you lot are treacherous scum" speech wont have helped. They have to decide which will be more disruptive and divisive - two more months of fuckface or putting in a holding team led by someone really boring (may). Who knows what shit the clown will pull now he has nothing to lose, greed to be further indulged and revenge to be taken?


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 7, 2022)

Michael Gove ruled himself out of leadership Contest


----------



## JimW (Jul 7, 2022)

killer b said:


> Does anyone know anything about Wallace? He's my MP and I know precisely nothing about him other than the tories love him


Read he got some award for campaigning for transparency in expenses which on face of it puts him streets ahead of the field already. 
Hopefully military type less likely to be Randian hardcore loon but realise doesn't necessarily follow and don't know.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 7, 2022)

JimW said:


> Read he got some award for campaigning for transparency in expenses which on face of it puts him streets ahead of the field already.


" he had the fourth highest expenses claim of any MP in the UK in 2008, claiming £175,523 on top of his £63,000 salary."


----------



## JimW (Jul 7, 2022)

ska invita said:


> " he had the fourth highest expenses claim of any MP in the UK in 2008, claiming £175,523 on top of his £63,000 salary."


But transparently Or bare faced as we used to call it.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 7, 2022)

killer b said:


> Does anyone know anything about Wallace? He's my MP and I know precisely nothing about him other than the tories love him



Relatively blunt speaking, and (for the first time in my adult life) he's a defence secretary with a solid grip of the boring details about how defence works.

He does detail, he reads the briefing papers, asks difficult questions, is happy to change his mind, is quite collegiate, but understands that the buck stops at his desk.

That said, he's had some 'values and standards' issues - so for example when Patel was accused of bullying, he tweeted that he'd never had a problem with her, and that therefore she was innocent: the issue being that saying that was directly opposed to the MOD's anti-bullying strategy and _orders_, which he wrote.

Is famous for saying 'bollocks' on Twitter. I've met him a few times: he's open to challenge, he's very pleasant and personable, he's happy to argue his point but he's courteous about listening to others - he's good fun socially (group of a dozen or so Mil/CS/senior Baltic State politicians, but he's happy not to be the centre of attention)

He was at the HoC defence committee last week - he's pretty open about failings, and happy to attach blame to his own side.


----------



## killer b (Jul 7, 2022)

Would he want the job d'y reckon?


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 7, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Looking like the relatively unknown Ben Wallace might be next PM.



.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 7, 2022)

killer b said:


> Does anyone know anything about Wallace?


Fucking loves cheese?


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 7, 2022)

Grant Shapps to launch leadership bid, according to Sky News. Just when I thought there could be no worse options than Bozo!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 7, 2022)

Joe Lycett's managed to get hold of Nads' non-resignation letter 🤣


----------



## kebabking (Jul 7, 2022)

killer b said:


> Would he want the job d'y reckon?



Definitely.

There's been noise about the NATO sec gen job, which is up, and which he'd be good at, and have lots of support from eastern and northern Europe for - but I think he'd like to be PM. I wouldn't be surprised if the SG job was being touted by Johnson people to get him out of UK politics in order to shore up Johnson's position.


----------



## killer b (Jul 7, 2022)

Well then. I guess it's his for the taking, unless he really fucks the hustings.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 7, 2022)

Defence is Wallace's thing though, it's no surprise he has shown an interest. There's no indication how he'll cope with anything outside his comfort zone, like a currency crisis or a nurse's strike.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 7, 2022)

So Wallace is a competent-but-dull type who actually bothers to read his briefing notes. The worse he'll do is not be fully on top of some things. At this point I think the party will welcome that rather than another Boris type going off half-cocked in every direction. If some of the headbangers on the shortlist do go ahead and stand that'll probably help out the likes of Wallace and Mordaunt even more.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 7, 2022)

Just seen on Sky News website rolling coverage that Grant shapps is now thinking of running for leadership


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Just seen on Sky News website rolling coverage that Grant shapps is now thinking of running for leadership


just follow this thread as you're falling behind events


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 7, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Just seen on Sky News website rolling coverage that Grant shapps is now thinking of running for leadership


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 7, 2022)

It should be compulsory for  all candidates who want to stand for PM  to undergo the Rory Stewart #ComeKipWithMe initiative


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 7, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Just seen on Sky News website rolling coverage that Grant shapps is now thinking of running for leadership


I just seen it whoops


----------



## flypanam (Jul 7, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> I rekon steve baker is in with a shout - not tainted by association with Johnson - so new broom and all that , keeper of the brexit/thatchertie flame (so will be popular with the membership). Will be shit - but his hard brexit/thatcherite ideology may come unstuck pretty quickly when it collides with the reality of economic mire and people eating out of bins.


Baker will do for Britain like he did for Lehman Brothers. Imagine too, schools will get ride of Humanities and just study Austrian economics. SATs on Hayek for year 6.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 7, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> It should be compulsory for  all candidates who want to stand for PM  to undergo the Rory Stewart #ComeKipWithMe initiative




Couple of hits on the opium pipe?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 7, 2022)

Sunak has set up a leadership campaign 'office' in a hotel


----------



## kebabking (Jul 7, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> So Wallace is a competent-but-dull type who actually bothers to read his briefing notes. The worse he'll do is not be fully on top of some things. At this point I think the party will welcome that rather than another Boris type going off half-cocked in every direction. If some of the headbangers on the shortlist do go ahead and stand that'll probably help out the likes of Wallace and Mordaunt even more.



I like boring politics.


----------



## elbows (Jul 7, 2022)




----------



## frogwoman (Jul 7, 2022)

I fully endorse his leadership, plus Boris Johnson for chancellor, Nadine Dorries for transport and Priti Patel for idk Health or something lol


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I fully endorse his leadership, plus Boris Johnson for chancellor, Nadine Dorries for transport and Priti Patel for idk Health or something lol


Yes, Johnson could adorn the lamppost outside the treasury, Patel ornament one outside a hospital, dorries under a truck or similar and so on


----------



## stavros (Jul 7, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> Grant Shapps to launch leadership bid, according to Sky News.


Well that's four names on the ballot paper already.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 7, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sunak has set up a leadership campaign 'office' in a hotel



Hopefully a Premier Inn 🤔


----------



## marty21 (Jul 7, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Michael Gove ruled himself out of leadership Contest


He's been sacked in July 3 times now 🤣


----------



## stavros (Jul 7, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Hopefully a Premier Inn 🤔


----------



## philosophical (Jul 7, 2022)

Steve Baker has been behind 'leave' from the beginning.
He only needs to be asked what his plan for the EU/UK land border has always been and he's fucked.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2022)

marty21 said:


> He's been sacked in July 3 times now 🤣


A mate of mine was over from the states last three years back when may went. He arrived back for a visit last week. I am trying to encourage him to visit more frequently


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 7, 2022)

Steve Baker has been behind 'leave' from the beginning.
He only needs to be asked what his plan for the EU/UK land border has always been and he's fucked.
He also wants to roll back the UK's already meagre green policies and is a climate change denier.









						Anti-green MP Steve Baker considering running for PM
					

Exclusive: High Wycombe MP says if he won leadership race he would dismantle green policies




					www.theguardian.com
				




He also is anti-abortion:

From his own website



			
				https://www.stevebaker.info/where-i-stand/life/ said:
			
		

> The abortion debate is then a conflict between the mother’s right to her own person and her duty to sustain the life of the unborn. The questions are when the unborn gains a right to their own person, when the mother’s duty to sustain the life of the unborn takes effect and whether and when the law should transform that duty into a legal obligation.
> 
> Logically, I see no choice but to accept that a person first exists with a right to their own life when unique DNA is created, that is, at the point of conception.



Then


> Therefore, if we are to have a state with a duty to protect life, liberty and property:
> 
> 
> I am opposed to the creation of embryos which will be deliberately destroyed.
> ...


So a total shithead


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 7, 2022)

I don't think anyone needs to hear him speak or read his thoughts to know he's a wrongun


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 7, 2022)

That picture makes him look very much like the kind of man who'll one day be found dead in a cupboard after a stranglewank gone wrong.


----------



## JimW (Jul 7, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> That picture makes him look very much like the kind of man who'll one day be found dead in a cupboard after a stranglewank gone wrong.


Might have happened already but they've propped him back up.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 7, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> That picture makes him look very much like the kind of man who'll one day be found dead in a cupboard after a stranglewank gone wrong.



When did a strangle wank ever really go right...I mean really? 

We can aspire  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## johnwesley (Jul 7, 2022)




----------



## billy_bob (Jul 7, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> When did a strangle wank ever really go right...I mean really?
> 
> We can aspire  - Louis MacNeice


Well, there's an element of reporting bias there - people don't tend to tell the papers when they've had a good one.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 7, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Well, there's an element of reporting bias there - people don't tend to tell the papers when they've had a good one.



Or when they've had a bad one, tbf.


----------



## maomao (Jul 7, 2022)

Surely a stranglewank gone right is one that results in a dead tory.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 7, 2022)

maomao said:


> Surely a stranglewank gone right is one that results in a dead tory.


Good point. So in fact it's usually the gone-right ones we hear about.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 7, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Or when they've had a bad one, tbf.


No. But someone does...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 7, 2022)

JimW said:


> Might have happened already but they've propped him back up.


If you're ever invited to a weekend at Stevie's, decline 😳


----------



## bimble (Jul 7, 2022)

Can Johnson throw his hat in for PM now or would he have to puts a fake moustache on to try for another go ?


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 7, 2022)

bimble said:


> Can Johnson throw his hat in for PM now or would he have to puts a fake moustache on to try for another go ?


It's probably one of those things that 'time honoured tradition frowns upon' but isn't actually technically not allowed.

Which means he's almost guaranteed to do it.


----------



## maomao (Jul 7, 2022)

The Guardian features this rather odd picture of the  presumed) contenders:



Why is Sunak, second shortest at 5'7", shown towering over the apparently six-foot tall Braverman, not to mention five-foot-ten Zahalwi and five-foot-eight Javid? Is the Guardian getting behind Dishi?


----------



## kebabking (Jul 7, 2022)

bimble said:


> Can Johnson throw his hat in for PM now or would he have to puts a fake moustache on to try for another go ?



I _think_ he can try, but he'll need X number of supporting signatures to get on the first ballot. There'll be at least X number of freaks who will pledge allegiance to the Once and Future King, but even if he gets on the first ballot (unlikely imv), outside of the freaks like Mad Nad, no one will see him as a future bet, and he'll struggle to get more than 30 votes.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 7, 2022)

maomao said:


> The Guardian features this rather odd picture of the  presumed) contenders:
> 
> View attachment 331117
> 
> Why is Sunak, second shortest at 5'7", shown towering over the apparently six-foot tall Braverman, not to mention five-foot-ten Zahalwi and five-foot-eight Javid? Is the Guardian getting behind Dishi?



This is a weird picture alright. But it should shame the Labour Party somewhat that it's the Tories who are able to field five candidates only one of whom is white, and she's a woman. Not saying that makes up for the fact that they're all obviously evil and/or insane, but still...


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 7, 2022)

If I had to choose one of these loathsome Tory shits it'd be Tom Tugendhat so I could make fun of his name.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 7, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> This is a weird picture alright. But it should shame the Labour Party somewhat that it's the Tories who are able to field five candidates only one of whom is white, and she's a woman. Not saying that makes up for the fact that they're all obviously evil and/or insane, but still...


Why is it that the Labour Party cant compete with the Tories when it comes to equal opportunities for the evil and/or insane ?


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 7, 2022)

Nick watt on newsnight has just said he has been told that it highly likely that the leadership contest will start next week


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 7, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Why is it that the Labour Party cant compete with the Tories when it comes to equal opportunities for the evil and/or insane ?



Obviously not what I meant. You don't think it matters that to the casual observer, the mainstream right-wing party in English politics appears to be more successful than the mainstream left wing party at promoting anything like a representative level of diversity at the highest level? I think it does - not least because of the establishment-appeasing postions most of those representatives of diversity end up taking in order to retain their status in as unwelcoming an environment as the Tory party.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 8, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> This is a weird picture alright. But it should shame the Labour Party somewhat that it's the Tories who are able to field five candidates only one of whom is white, and she's a woman. Not saying that makes up for the fact that they're all obviously evil and/or insane, but still...



I imagine an Asian PM would send quite a strong message to e.g. European Liberals who like to claim the UK is one of the most racist countries in Europe, when it's actually one of the least racist.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 8, 2022)

maomao said:


> The Guardian features this rather odd picture of the  presumed) contenders:
> 
> View attachment 331117
> 
> Why is Sunak, second shortest at 5'7", shown towering over the apparently six-foot tall Braverman, not to mention five-foot-ten Zahalwi and five-foot-eight Javid? Is the Guardian getting behind Dishi?


People get pissy when you photograph (or mock one up) where women are taller than men.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 8, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I imagine an Asian PM would send quite a strong message to e.g. European Liberals who like to claim the UK is one of the most racist countries in Europe, when it's actually one of the least racist.



A good message or a bad one? OK, it'd be disingenuous of most other countries' citizen's to claim that the UK's more racist than them, but it's still a massive problem here too. Don't want to spend another few years having to listen to that 'post-racial society' bullshit all over again. Of course, the likelihood is that we'd hear that bullshit under a Tory or Labour Asian PM, and the fact that we'd hear that clearly isn't an argument against having one. But there'd be a big difference between a Prime Minister Javid and a Prime Minister Lammy (not that Lammy represents my political inclinations in many ways - just picking him as representative of someone on the Labour side who is at least prepared to be outspoken about racism).


----------



## ska invita (Jul 8, 2022)

Theres an interesting historic colonial/class dynamic of 'Indian' Tories:








						How did British Indians become so prominent in the Conservative party? | Neha Shah
					

Since Thatcher’s day, the Conservatives have held the community up as a model minority, says activist and researcher Neha Shah




					www.theguardian.com
				




"
Indian migration to Britain took place in two significant waves. The first was in the late 1940s and 50s, when migrants were recruited directly from India by successive governments to fill the labour shortage that resulted from the second world war. They mostly settled in the Midlands and the north-west of England, working in foundries and textile manufacturing. These migrants were heavily involved in building Britain’s antiracist and trade union movements in the 1950s and 60s, drawing on lessons learned from anti-colonial struggles back home to organise their communities in Britain. To this day, these communities are disproportionately working class and Labour voting.

The second wave of Indian migrants to Britain were the so-called “twice migrants” who arrived from east Africa in the 1960s and 70s, having been expelled or encouraged to leave by the newly independent regimes in Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania. The families of our chancellor, home secretary and attorney general are all part of this latter group.

So how and why have their descendants become so prominent on the Tory frontbenches? The answer begins in 1895, with the creation of the British East Africa Protectorate. British officials envisioned the protectorate, which occupied roughly the same area as modern-day Kenya, as the “America of the Hindu”, a settler-colonial project to be led by Indians on behalf of the British.

In the early 20th century, thousands of Indians (mostly Goans, Gujaratis and Punjabis) were imported into east Africa as subcolonial agents of civilisation. They were required to work in colonial administration and serve in the colonial police and army, to keep the “native peoples” in order. "
etc


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 8, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I imagine an Asian PM would send quite a strong message to e.g. European Liberals who like to claim the UK is one of the most racist countries in Europe, when it's actually one of the least racist.



In the same way that electing Obama sent the message that the US isn't a racist country?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 8, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> In the same way that electing Obama sent the message that the US isn't a racist country?



Obama didn’t replace Bush as Republican party president though, if he had, it would have sent that sort of message. Sunak as PM would certainly have liberal Germans thinking what it would take to have a German Chancellor of Turkish origin for example.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 8, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Obama didn’t replace Bush as Republican party president though, if he had, it would have sent that sort of message. Sunak as PM would certainly have liberal Germans thinking what it would take to have a German Chancellor of Turkish origin for example.



Yes, but 'sending a positive message' about the possibility of a black or brown person reaching the highest office - which yes, it would do by definition - isn't the same as achieving concrete positive steps forward in tackling racism of any kind, from street violence to white supremacist societal structures, is it? Not unless you're also vocal and serious about recognising the vast compromises with those structures that that person would have had to make - which none of the people bandying about these positive messages would be.

E2a: I'm aware I sort of look like I'm arguing against myself considering I started by suggesting that visible representation matters. It does, even if it's only the tip of the mother of all fucking icebergs here, and its embarrassing that it'll suggest to anyone not paying close attention that the Tories have done better at ... whatever you do to get rid of icebergs (maintaining global warming, I guess, but that confuses my metaphor somewhat ...)


----------



## Sue (Jul 8, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I imagine an Asian PM would send quite a strong message to *e.g. European Liberals who like to claim the UK is one of the most racist countries in Europe*, when it's actually one of the least racist.


Do they? I've never seen/heard this.


----------



## andysays (Jul 8, 2022)

Sue said:


> Do they? I've never seen/heard this.


I think I've seen it suggested or at least implied by some pro-EU British liberals, including here on Urban, but that's not quite the same thing


----------



## gosub (Jul 8, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> He can't stand, that's the rules.


Oh god we all know about Boris and rules


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 8, 2022)

Just heard of this cunt Steve Baker - apparently his hat is in the ring. He thinks science is political correctness gone mad and looks like a get-rich-quick spiv.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 8, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Yes, but 'sending a positive message' about the possibility of a black or brown person reaching the highest office - which yes, it would do by definition - isn't the same as achieving concrete positive steps forward in tackling racism of any kind, from street violence to white supremacist societal structures, is it? Not unless you're also vocal and serious about recognising the vast compromises with those structures that that person would have had to make - which none of the people bandying about these positive messages would be.



I never claimed any of that tbf.



Jeff Robinson said:


> Just heard of this cunt Steve Baker


----------



## Chz (Jul 8, 2022)

andysays said:


> I think I've seen it suggested or at least implied by some pro-EU British liberals, including here on Urban, but that's not quite the same thing


Modern Britain can be a terribly racist place. But it's _peanuts_ compared to the shit that goes on in France. There's still a healthy sized group out there that reckons the Vichy government was a good thing because it helped to get rid of the Jews.


----------



## Supine (Jul 8, 2022)

andysays said:


> I think I've seen it suggested or at least implied by some pro-EU British liberals, including here on Urban, but that's not quite the same thing



So no evidence then


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 8, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Yes, but 'sending a positive message' about the possibility of a black or brown person reaching the highest office - which yes, it would do by definition - isn't the same as achieving concrete positive steps forward in tackling racism of any kind, from street violence to white supremacist societal structures, is it? Not unless you're also vocal and serious about recognising the vast compromises with those structures that that person would have had to make - which none of the people bandying about these positive messages would be.





platinumsage said:


> I never claimed any of that tbf.



Yeah, fair enough. I'm just reflecting that any positive message it would send is very much undermined by the fact that it would also be used as an excuse to pretend it demonstrated that all that other stuff was dealt with, just as plenty of people did in the US when Obama was elected.


----------



## maomao (Jul 8, 2022)

Chz said:


> Modern Britain can be a terribly racist place. But it's _peanuts_ compared to the shit that goes on in France. There's still a healthy sized group out that that reckons the Vichy government was a good thing because it helped to get rid of the Jews.


I have a relation who constantly refers to the UK as a racist shithole, says he can't stand Southend because it's full of 'ugly white people' (his exact words), moans about the lack of of diversity at his very very middle class workplace and holidays in France every year. I put it down to him not speaking French. 

Despite racism still being a huge problem the UK is the least racist country I know.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 8, 2022)

maomao said:


> Despite racism still being a huge problem the UK is the least racist country I know.



Hard to know how these things can be quantified with any real degree of accuracy, but this global survey ranks the UK as the 16th least racist country. To my surprise we are lagging 3 places behind Australia:





__





						Least Racist Countries 2022
					





					worldpopulationreview.com


----------



## Chz (Jul 8, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Hard to know how these things can be quantified with any real degree of accuracy, but this global survey ranks the UK as the 16th least racist country. To my surprise we are lagging 3 places behind Australia:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Behind Australia? I haven't been there in 15 years, but they must have come along leaps and bounds since then!

Edit: Ah, "The more people of a particular country responded that they would be happy to have a neighbor of a different race, the more racially tolerant the respondents' country would be considered."
That's an interesting take on it. But I suppose it is really an impossible thing to measure.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 8, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Hard to know how these things can be quantified with any real degree of accuracy, but this global survey ranks the UK as the 16th least racist country. To my surprise we are lagging 3 places behind Australia:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting that it rated Russia less racist than the US


----------



## redcogs (Jul 8, 2022)

Couldn't see Cuba on the list of least racist countries?  Those i have spoken to (who have visited Cuba) seem to regard it as a very non racist place.  A curious omission.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 8, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Theres an interesting historic colonial/class dynamic of 'Indian' Tories:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agree with all of this, just to add that the majority of 'Asians' (as described in East Africa) made up the mercantile and business classes of the region. A lot of merchants were already present in remote towns before Europeans arrived having replaced the Arab slavers who penetrated as far as the Congo from the East coast.

 There has always been friction between black Africans and 'Asians' in Kenya, Tanzania and Zambia, as well as famously in Uganda. Shiva Naipaul's book 'North of South' from the late 1970's explores these tensions.

/derail over


----------



## Sue (Jul 8, 2022)

Chz said:


> Modern Britain can be a terribly racist place. But it's _peanuts_ compared to the shit that goes on in France. There's still a healthy sized group out there that reckons the Vichy government was a good thing because it helped to get rid of the Jews.


Yep. I used to live in Paris (and I suspect Paris is better than lots of places outside). I'd a Senegalese friend there who'd lived in London as well as Paris and she reckoned London was way, way better than Paris. Heard similar from other non-white French friends. (Also very common for people to very casually in conversation mention that N African people are all thieves and cheats and stuff. Found that pretty astonishing.) 

So I'm by no means saying things are perfect here but they're way, way better than in France IMO. (I was in a mixed-race relationship at the time too so also experienced some shit due to that. 😡 )


----------



## Numbers (Jul 8, 2022)

Ireland in 12th - sadly in my experience it's one of the most racist places I've been to.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 8, 2022)

redcogs said:


> Couldn't see Cuba on the list of least racist countries?  Those i have spoken to (who have visited Cuba) seem to regard it as a very non racist place.  A curious omission.


I've lived in Cuba. Sadly it is a much more racist place than first meets the eye. The structural inequality left after slavery is still there - the blackest neighbourhoods are the poorest neighbourhoods. And the particular form of racism that arose in Cuba, essentially involving three categories rather than the two of places like the US, is still very much in evidence. Dark-skinned people in Cuba suffer a great deal of prejudice, which isn't helped by the official line that says racism has been banished to the past.


----------



## redcogs (Jul 8, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I've lived in Cuba. Sadly it is a much more racist place than first meets the eye. The structural inequality left after slavery is still there - the blackest neighbourhoods are the poorest neighbourhoods. And the particular form of racism that arose in Cuba, essentially involving three categories rather than the two of places like the US, is still very much in evidence. Dark-skinned people in Cuba suffer a great deal of prejudice, which isn't helped by the official line that says racism has been banished to the past.


Sad to hear.  Those tourists who spoke to me about it obviously had a rose coloured view.  Thanks littlebabyjesus


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 8, 2022)

John Baron on Politics live has just said he is taking sounding and thinking of running himself


----------



## Sue (Jul 8, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> John Baron on Politics live has just said he is taking sounding and thinking of running himself


TBH, thought I might give it a bash. I mean I can hold a pint/eat chips like a normal person and have managed thus far not to sexually assault people while pissed so reckon I'm off to a flyer.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 8, 2022)

Sue said:


> TBH, thought I might give it a bash. I mean I can hold a pint/eat chips like a normal person and have managed thus far not to sexually assault people while pissed so reckon I'm off to a flyer.


Can you not tell the truth aswell😇😆


----------



## Sue (Jul 8, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Can you not tell the truth aswell😇😆


Fair point. I'm a very bad liar.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 8, 2022)

Sue said:


> Fair point. I'm a very bad liar.


That's alright. So are they.


----------



## Supine (Jul 8, 2022)

Sue said:


> TBH, thought I might give it a bash. I mean I can hold a pint/eat chips like a normal person and have managed thus far not to sexually assault people while pissed so reckon I'm off to a flyer.



What are your corruption skills like?


----------



## Sue (Jul 8, 2022)

Supine said:


> What are your corruption skills like?


Could use some work tbh.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 8, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's alright. So are they.


Your hired 😆


----------



## Supine (Jul 8, 2022)

Sue said:


> Could use some work tbh.



It sounds to me like you need to pull some strong nepotism or racism skills out of the bag. Failing that you might need to become a lefty.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 8, 2022)

Supine said:


> What are your corruption skills like?


_Sadly, in my previous roles, the opportunities to develop my corruption skills did not present themselves as I would have liked. However, I look forward to taking advantage of the many opportunities this new role will open up and I am a quick and willing learner. _


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 8, 2022)

Prepare yourselves


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Prepare yourselves



not ready to open the wallet and return public sector workers to 2008 pay in real terms i see pending an actual wage increase. fuck the fucking cunt.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Prepare yourselves



Just what we need, a fucking billionaire pm. I thought he said he was done


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 8, 2022)




----------



## bimble (Jul 8, 2022)

"someone has to grip this moment?" 
wonder when he started making that video.

eta the logo though, that's amazing, really does looks like it was created yesterday. 

 lol.


----------



## JimW (Jul 8, 2022)

least he can afford his own wallpaper.


----------



## maomao (Jul 8, 2022)

bimble said:


> "someone has to grip this moment?"
> wonder when he started making that video.
> 
> eta the logo though, that's amazing, really does looks like it was created yesterday.
> ...


That's terrible. I can't work out if it says Rishi or Rish! His name's Rishi but that definitely looks like an exclamation mark.


----------



## JimW (Jul 8, 2022)

Is it short for Right Shit?


----------



## ska invita (Jul 8, 2022)

Rich "bastard" Sunak


----------



## Sue (Jul 8, 2022)

maomao said:


> That's terrible. I can't work out if it says Rishi or Rish! His name's Rishi but that definitely looks like an exclamation mark.


Ooh, is it like Angela Eagle's which was so shit I can't even remember what it was..?


----------



## JimW (Jul 8, 2022)

Sue said:


> Ooh, is it like Angela Eagle's which was so shit I can't even remember what it was..?


Likened to a perfume ad IIRC


----------



## Sue (Jul 8, 2022)

bimble said:


> "someone has to grip this moment?"
> wonder when he started making that video.
> 
> eta the logo though, that's amazing, really does looks like it was created yesterday.
> ...


It's like the Covid work experience infographics all over again!


----------



## maomao (Jul 8, 2022)

Sue said:


> Angela Eagle's


Angela Aaargh because it descended into squiggle halfway through.


----------



## stavros (Jul 8, 2022)

Any word yet from the name on everyone's lips?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Prepare yourselves




Interesting to hear he plans to abolish private schools


----------



## emanymton (Jul 8, 2022)

Sue said:


> Ooh, is it like Angela Eagle's which was so shit I can't even remember what it was..?


Arrhhhh or something wasn't it, was just thinking that myself.

Edit- but you could at least remember her name, I couldn't.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 8, 2022)

Here it is.


----------



## Santino (Jul 8, 2022)

I think for Tories running for leader is an efficient way of getting offered a plum ministerial job. Get a few supporters and then make a deal with one of the frontrunners to stand aside.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 8, 2022)




----------



## MrCurry (Jul 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



How does someone that stupid become an MP?  Oh wait, don’t answer that. It all makes sense I suppose.

Complete with gormless surprised look too. Priceless.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 8, 2022)

Bill Wiggins has enter the race too

Who he, I have no clue


----------



## Supine (Jul 8, 2022)

Reports that Nads might run are being well received in this house


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 8, 2022)

Supine said:


> Reports that Nads might run are being well received in this house


It just getting ridiculous now


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 8, 2022)

Rishi currently doing best in this poll of the general public and Tory voters:


----------



## elbows (Jul 8, 2022)

RecessionReadyRishi4RichRascals


----------



## campanula (Jul 8, 2022)

O fucking christ - I fucking loathe the sneaky cunt.

apols for lack of even a smidgeon of erudite analysis. I just hate the shit. Smirking, greedy knobhead. Prolly summat to do with losing the teeny tiny bit of UC covid uplift (ha)  and knowing it was dishifuckingrishi behind the move.


----------



## Sue (Jul 8, 2022)

campanula said:


> O fucking christ - I fucking loathe the sneaky cunt.
> 
> apols for lack of even a smidgeon of erudite analysis. I just hate the shit. Smirking, greedy knobhead. Prolly summat to do with losing the teeny tiny bit of UC covid uplift (ha)  and knowing it was dishifuckingrishi behind the move.


Was wondering which one but starting from 'all of them' probably works.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> Rishi currently doing best in this poll of the general public and Tory voters:



One thing sunak has over shammer is his not representing a London seat


----------



## stdP (Jul 8, 2022)

campanula said:


> apols for lack of even a smidgeon of erudite analysis. I just hate the shit. Smirking, greedy knobhead.



This analysis was perfectly erudite as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## campanula (Jul 8, 2022)

Sue said:


> Was wondering which one but starting from 'all of them' probably works.


Yep Sue...but I am holding a special hatred in my heart for the callous Sunak and his short-sighted and ultimately vicious economic positioning. Plus, he is a greedy, hypocritical, tax-dodging liar so yah know - total Tory


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 8, 2022)

I think Sunak might do a Portillo in this leadership race, definitely his to lose. My eyes are on Wallace at the moment, it’s his to win if he plays his cards right, which he might not.


----------



## RedRedRose (Jul 8, 2022)

maomao said:


> The Guardian features this rather odd picture of the  presumed) contenders:
> 
> View attachment 331117
> 
> Why is Sunak, second shortest at 5'7", shown towering over the apparently six-foot tall Braverman, not to mention five-foot-ten Zahalwi and five-foot-eight Javid? Is the Guardian getting behind Dishi?


I don't know enough about Zahawi or Javid, but Liz Truss has proven a defence liability, Suella is an oddball, and Sunak is unbearable. 

Amongst the Tories, I would have thought Sunak would be popular for fiscal reasons, and Mordaunt for trying to undo the reputational damage of Johnson.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2022)

.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2022)

Mark Jenkinson, Tory MP for Workington.


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 8, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Interesting to hear he plans to abolish private schools



I think he was headboy at Winchester


----------



## kebabking (Jul 8, 2022)

Twitter tells me that Steve - not-a-nutter - Baker has thrown his vast political weight behind Suella - not-thick-at-all - Braverman and her foretold in the stars leadership bid.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 8, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> I think he was headboy at Winchester


Have related this anecdote in other places, but I'm reminded of it now.
Long story short, I was being shown around Winchester by a old-hand "Master" who breezily told our group that he was proud of the variety of social backgrounds that pupils came from. He expanded on the theme and said "we actually have children from middle class backgrounds and even some from trade".

Man Of The People


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 8, 2022)

It also been reported that Kemi Badenoch is enter the race too


----------



## Supine (Jul 8, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> It also been reported that Kemi Badenoch is enter the race too



Can we nominate urbs to enter?


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 8, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Have related this anecdote in other places, but I'm reminded of it now.
> Long story short, I was being shown around Winchester by a old-hand "Master" who breezily told our group that he was proud of the variety of social backgrounds that pupils came from. He expanded on the theme and said "we actually have children from middle class backgrounds and even some from trade".
> 
> Man Of The People



They're called dons , not masters, but carry on


----------



## nottsgirl (Jul 8, 2022)

I beg you, not Patel. That’s all I want from this.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 8, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Twitter tells me that Steve - not-a-nutter - Baker has thrown his vast political weight behind Suella - not-thick-at-all - Braverman and her foretold in the stars leadership bid.


not good. Baker is leader of the tory cunt ultra cunt group - or whatever the ERG are called now - so very much helps braverman get on the final ballot - and the tory membership do like their hard right loons.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 8, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> I beg you, not Patel. That’s all I want from this.


Shes been very quiet atm?


----------



## nottsgirl (Jul 8, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Shes been very quiet atm?


Calm before the storm?


----------



## nottsgirl (Jul 8, 2022)

I console myself with the thought she’s been widely thought to be a disaster at the home office but I am terrified she can do it.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 8, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> Calm before the storm?


Maybe?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Shes been very quiet atm?


Don't curse it ffs


----------



## brogdale (Jul 8, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> They're called dons , not masters, but carry on


Yeah, either forgot that or never knew, but that's it; that's the anecdote. I do remember we were given sherry by the headmaster or whatever he might have styled himself!


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 9, 2022)

God he really is an extremely smarmy fucker - I think a difficult sell when voters inspect the goods close up. I also wonder if it's ever crossed his mind when recounting the heartwarming story of his parents' arrival in the UK how different things may have been if they had been bundled off to Rwanda...

Also chillingly clear from the 'confronting the moment vs. fairytales' narrative that he is explicitly touting himself as the intellectual heir to George Osborne. Anyone remember 'hard choices' from the post-GFC years? Making a comeback should Rishi get in and win a GE...


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Mark Jenkinson, Tory MP for Workington.



Bit early for him to be on the light ales


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 9, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> It also been reported that Kemi Badenoch is enter the race too


Occupies the same space as Patel I think politically but with less baggage


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 9, 2022)

Steve Baker had tossed his hat in the ring with this intriguing portrayal of himself as the survivor of a terrible propellor accident.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 9, 2022)

Wow, he's kept his old school wrestling promotion to himself, but he's got my support.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 9, 2022)

Loved Keith Lemon when he was a wrestler (bottom right)


----------



## RedRedRose (Jul 9, 2022)

Bookies odds, according to the Guardian.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 9, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> Steve Baker had tossed his hat in the ring with this intriguing portrayal of himself as the survivor of a terrible propellor accident.
> 
> View attachment 331313


The Hard Man has already pivoted to instead back the Braverman


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

Ben Wallace trounces every other candidate in a poll of members, despite not announcing anything yet:









						The Next Tory Leader play-offs. The full results. | Conservative Home
					

A compilation of all the outcomes of our leadership run-offs from earlier in the week.




					conservativehome.com


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Ben Wallace trounces every other candidate in a poll of members, despite not announcing anything yet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It'll be fucking funny if he doesn't stand.


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 9, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> The Hard Man has already pivoted to instead back the Braverman



As Attorney General. Braverman has just done whatever Johnson wanted. I can't think of her making her mark in a good way at all. Maybe Baker wants her to his puppet


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 9, 2022)

"He who wields the knife doesn't get the crown," is the usual rule of thumb.


----------



## hegley (Jul 9, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> Steve Baker had tossed his hat in the ring with this intriguing portrayal of himself as the survivor of a terrible propellor accident.
> 
> View attachment 331313


Bloody hell - did he just apply the first design suggestion in PowerPoint when he put that together?


----------



## emanymton (Jul 9, 2022)

hegley said:


> Bloody hell - did he just apply the first design suggestion in PowerPoint when he put that together?


It's the little squiggly thing to the bottom left of the picture that really gets me just why?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2022)

emanymton said:


> It's the little squiggly thing to the bottom left of the picture that really gets me just why?


I like the thing that's gone through his head


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> Bookies odds, according to the Guardian.
> View attachment 331315


You can tell it's the guardian as anywhere else would have mordaunt on 13/2 and Wallace on 9/2. Don't know why they seem to think this makes the pair rank outsiders


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 9, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> Steve Baker had tossed his hat in the ring with this intriguing portrayal of himself as the survivor of a terrible propellor accident.
> 
> View attachment 331313



Nailing the Orphan Black look.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> Steve Baker had tossed his hat in the ring with this intriguing portrayal of himself as the survivor of a terrible propellor accident.
> 
> View attachment 331313


For me cwf will always be class war federation and not this nefandous cabal


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 9, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> Steve Baker had tossed his hat in the ring with this intriguing portrayal of himself as the survivor of a terrible propellor accident.
> 
> View attachment 331313


🤣🤣🤣

Putting his passion for the withdrawal method into effect


----------



## teqniq (Jul 9, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> View attachment 331157
> 
> Just heard of this cunt Steve Baker - apparently his hat is in the ring. He thinks science is political correctness gone mad and looks like a get-rich-quick spiv.


Baker has been on my radar for quite a while as a really unpleasant individual. Amongst his attributes he is anti-green, anti-abortion and a member of the ERG, but thankfully he has withdrawn from the leadership contest (not that I think he had an enormous chance of winning). He is now backing Braverman lol:









						Brexiteer Steve Baker backs Suella Braverman as he drops his own leadership bid
					

Plus, the former Brexit minister tells the Telegraph why the Attorney General can turn the Conservative Party around




					www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Ben Wallace trounces every other candidate in a poll of members, despite not announcing anything yet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it might be better to see a poll at Conservative Home as a poll of activists rather than as one representing the views of ordinary members. Still it's interesting that they are favouring someone who looks least like Boris in many ways.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 9, 2022)

Sunak registered Ready4Rishi the day before Johnson resigned.





__





						ready4rishi.com whois lookup - who.is
					

ready4rishi.com whois lookup information.




					who.is


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 9, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> Steve Baker had tossed his hat in the ring with this intriguing portrayal of himself as the survivor of a terrible propellor accident.
> 
> View attachment 331313


It would take a lot to surpass everyone's previous favourite political propellor accident


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Sunak registered Ready4Rishi the day before Johnson resigned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He registered readyforrishi.com last year. TBH I don't think it matters when candidates started preparing their leadership campaigns does it? It doesn't even signal disloyalty to Johnson so I'm not sure why even any Tories should care? 🤷


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 9, 2022)

Have we had this yet? Looks fun.  

ETA: (Can't get alt text to work) Image shows letter from Margaret Hodge challenging Nadhim Zahawi on allegations of financial involvements in tax-dodging via past non dom status and offshore companies wrt a large property portfolio.


----------



## Lucy Fur (Jul 9, 2022)

Chz said:


> Modern Britain can be a terribly racist place. But it's _peanuts_ compared to the shit that goes on in France. There's still a healthy sized group out there that reckons the Vichy government was a good thing because it helped to get rid of the Jews.


To give some context to this, France varies enormasly. Much is still working class agricultural and in those regions the above is significantly less so. There of course is still racism, mainly directed at North African countries. Sadly. I live in the Gers, SW France, in a small hamlet, my neighbours are french, save for a Belgian and Egyptian couple. They hate the Parisians for the reasons you give, and also those from the Alsace regions for the same. I take your point, but just wanted to give a French perspective on it because France is huge and varies a lot. My nearest cities, Toulouse, Bordeaux, Montpellier, feel very similar to the multi cultural south London I left.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> He registered readyforrishi.com last year. TBH I don't think it matters when candidates started preparing their leadership campaigns does it? It doesn't even signal disloyalty to Johnson so I'm not sure why even any Tories should care? 🤷


Of course the Tories don't care. They elected Johnson. I mean they aren't known for honesty and not breaking laws in office, looking at porn in the chamber and the multitude of other examples. 
I assume you think this is all fine and just lolz.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Of course the Tories don't care. They elected Johnson. I mean they aren't known for honesty and not breaking laws in office, looking at porn in the chamber and the multitude of other examples.
> I assume you think this is all fine and just lolz.



The fact he registered a leadership campaign website prior to Johnson resigning is being held up as some sort of gotcha on twitter, and presumably by you in the post above, but I just don't get it.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> The fact he registered a leadership campaign website prior to Johnson resigning is being held up as some sort of gotcha on twitter, and presumably by you in the post above, but I just don't get it.


Well, you wouldn't
But for others it just shows and well as committing a crime while being in office he is duplicitous.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Well, you wouldn't
> But for others it just shows and well as committing a crime while being in office he is duplicitous.



Duplicitous because he prepared a campaign behind Johnson's back? Oh how dreadful! That's surely his number up.

Surely it's just expected maneuvering for an MP? Even loyalists to the PM would be expected to prepare for a campaign to continue their esteemed colleague's legacy.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Duplicitous because he prepared a campaign behind Johnson's back? Oh how dreadful! That's surely his number up.
> 
> Surely it's just expect maneuvering for an MP? Even loyalists to the PM would be expected to prepare for a campaign to continue their esteemed colleague's legacy.


You have missing my point about your support of a criminal. A person who parties while others died and couldn't see their loved ones.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> You have missing my point about your support of a criminal. A person who parties while others died and couldn't see their loved ones.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

Wallace out.


----------



## magneze (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Wallace out.


Kingmaker? 🤔


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


>


Sunak got a FPN. He is a criminal who committed a crime while in high office. He partied with Johnson while people were prevented from seeing their loved ones as they died and you seem to support him.  



> Wallace out.


 And not defend this support.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Sunak got a FPN. He is a criminal who committed a crime while in high office. He partied with Johnson while people were prevented from seeing their loved ones as they died and you seem to support him.
> 
> And not defend this support.



You seem a few votes short of a second round. I simply asked why his campaign website domain purchase date was significant, because you posted about it.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

magneze said:


> Kingmaker? 🤔



Not sure he had many solid supporters in parliament yet with which to make a king, he was favourite in membership polls only.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> You seem a few votes short of a second round. I simply asked why his campaign website domain purchase date was significant, because you posted about it.


Because he was going behind Johnson's back.
You are still ignoring my other question. So I assume you don't have an answer and supporting someone who commits a crime in high office is just fine on your moral compass


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Because he was going behind Johnson's back.
> You are still ignoring my other question. So I assume you don't have an answer and supporting someone who commits a crime in high office is just fine on your moral compass



I don't think querying the significance of a domain registration date equates to support, but whatever. Not interested in carrying on this conversation.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I don't think inquiring as to the significance of a domain registration date equates to support, but whatever. Not interested in carrying on this conversation.


Fine. You support someone who committed a crime in high office and partied while others were banned from seeing their loved ones and you seem fine with that. WOW


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 9, 2022)

Homophobe and recreational animal killer Wallace was the least swivel eyed potential PM out of the lot. We’re fucked.


----------



## hegley (Jul 9, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> the least swivel eyed potential PM out of the lot.


Think that's Tugendhat tbh.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> He registered readyforrishi.com last year. TBH I don't think it matters when candidates started preparing their leadership campaigns does it? It doesn't even signal disloyalty to Johnson so I'm not sure why even any Tories should care? 🤷


There will be factional fight so any attempt to smear will be used.
 So far we've had Richi saying he won't do a tax cut which is what a lot of the headbangers want, so one element of the factional spilt is out there in the open. Edge of the seat stuff


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 9, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Homophobe and recreational animal killer Wallace was the least swivel eyed potential PM out of the lot. We’re fucked.


Talked about as next NATO Gen Sec. It's what Labour's George Robertson did back in 1999.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 9, 2022)

Nadine for PM, just for the lolz


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Nadine for PM, just for the lolz I



I think and hope that would finish the Tories off at the next election


----------



## teqniq (Jul 9, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Nadine for PM, just for the lolz


As if by magic:









						Nadine Dorries considering Tory leadership bid to ‘keep Johnson’s flame alive’
					

Nadine Dorries ‘wants to keep Boris’s flame alive’ and reportedly run for Tory leader




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 9, 2022)

teqniq said:


> As if by magic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh christ almighty   

I WAS FUCKING JOKING NADINE


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Oh christ almighty
> 
> I WAS FUCKING JOKING NADINE


It's too late now


----------



## cesare (Jul 9, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Oh christ almighty
> 
> I WAS FUCKING JOKING NADINE


That's same reaction as when Boris got voted in as Mayor tbf.


----------



## Sue (Jul 9, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Oh christ almighty
> 
> I WAS FUCKING JOKING NADINE


Look what you've gone and done. FFS. 😡


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2022)

teqniq said:


> As if by magic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



#GoNads trending on Twitter.

Be careful what you wish for people.


----------



## Sue (Jul 9, 2022)

spitfire said:


> #GoNads trending on Twitter.
> 
> Be careful what you wish for people.


#Gonads...?


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

spitfire said:


> #GoNads trending on Twitter.
> 
> Be careful what you wish for people.


Does she have any MPs backing her yet?


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2022)

Sue said:


> #Gonads...?



Indeed.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Does she have any MPs backing her yet?



Dunno, just a load of lefties tweeting GoNads so far.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 9, 2022)

Sue said:


> #Gonads...?


Yup, trending on twitter


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2022)

This would be fucking hilarious.

Or would it? I don't know.

I wouldn't put it past him after that non resignation speech. And remember he wasn't booted out by VNC so apparently he can stand if he gets the nominations...


----------



## kebabking (Jul 9, 2022)

spitfire said:


> This would be fucking hilarious.
> 
> Or would it? I don't know.
> 
> ...



Fucking goat rodeo.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 9, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Goat-fucking rodeo.


FTFY 🤢


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

spitfire said:


> This would be fucking hilarious.
> 
> Or would it? I don't know.
> 
> ...


If he did stand what the hell would Tory MPs do next because they want him gone


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> If he did stand what the hell would Tory MPs do next because they want him gone



Fight to the death, last man/woman standing is PM.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 9, 2022)

One hopes this is true, well, it's doubtless true, one just hopes it's enforced....


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2022)

kebabking said:


> One hopes this is true, well, it's doubtless true, one just hopes it's enforced....




It's mad that it is even being discussed by * proper * journalists as a thing.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

spitfire said:


> It's mad that it is even being discussed by * proper * journalists as a thing.


The only reason this is being discussed because its Boris Johnson and you can never tell with him what he is going to do next?


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 9, 2022)

spitfire said:


> It's mad that it is even being discussed by * proper * journalists as a thing.


She does have personal experience of Johnson going back on his word.


----------



## maomao (Jul 9, 2022)

kebabking said:


> One hopes this is true, well, it's doubtless true, one just hopes it's enforced....



Did he resign though? He said there was going to be a leadership contest but he didn't mention resigning at any point.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 9, 2022)

It'd be a brave move to stand for election having had to watch everyone resign because they didn't accept your leadership.

Enough, perhaps, to tear apart either the Party or the constitution.


----------



## andysays (Jul 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> It'd be a brave move to stand for election having had to watch everyone resign because they didn't accept your leadership.
> 
> Enough, perhaps, to tear apart either the Party or the constitution.


Let's hope so... 🙏


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 9, 2022)

Hate to spoil the fun, but it's being reported that vermin party rules say you can't stand for election as leader if you resign

presume that was brought in after john major did that to try and shut the 'bastards' up


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 9, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Hate to spoil the fun, but it's being reported that vermin party rules say you can't stand for election as leader if you resign
> 
> presume that was brought in after john major did that to try and shut the 'bastards' up


Boris didn't use the word "resign". For lying narcissistic idiots like him, an important point.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 9, 2022)

🤣


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Boris didn't use the word "resign". For lying narcissistic idiots like him, an important point.



but surely they can't have a leadership contest unless the current leader either resigns or gets voted out in a (party) vote of no confidence?


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 9, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> but surely they can't have a leadership contest unless the current leader either resigns or gets voted out in a (party) vote of no confidence?


They're having candidates declare their intention to stand. But the contest hasn't been officially called, the 1922 Committee hasn't agreed on the rules let alone announced them.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 9, 2022)

spitfire said:


> View attachment 331396


That’s all true from one perspective. Except, he hasn’t yet resigned as party leader: he’s agreed to resign as party leader  at some future point, as part of the reselection process. (The process _to be announced_ next week). 

“It is clearly now the will of the parliamentary Conservative Party that there should be a new leader of *that* party” (my emphasis).

“I've agreed with Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of our backbench MPs, that the process of choosing that new leader should begin now and the timetable will be announced next week.”

He mentioned several times his personal mandate. (Something he does not in fact possess but either believes he does possess or wants us to believe he does).

It is not entirely beyond the realms of possibility that _he believes_ he can form a new party, and due to his wonderfulness, somehow regain a majority in Parliament.

Would that work? No way. Might he think it stands a chance? He is certainly deluded and entitled enough that we shouldn’t rule that out.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2022)

I'm getting more convinced by the minute as killer b  hasn't turned up yet to tell us off for getting over excited about twitter nonsense.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 9, 2022)

teqniq said:


> As if by magic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I think we can already predict most of her cabinet. Jose Cuero, Captain Morgan, Jack Daniels and Mr. Muscle.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

If Sunak gets torpedoed before the final two go to members it’s going to be Truss vs Mordaunt isn’t it, and the biggest difference between them seems to be trans rights.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 9, 2022)

I can see this turning into some ghastly culture war pantomime very easily.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I can see this turning into some ghastly culture war pantomime very easily.



That's Braverman's only talking point, really, and if Dorries really is standing too I think it's beyond doubt it'll turn into this.


----------



## JimW (Jul 9, 2022)

Penny Mordaunt is surely the name a a Harry Potter antagonist.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

Grant Shapps is next one to launch bid


----------



## maomao (Jul 9, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Grant Shapps is next one to launch bid


Only one?


----------



## andysays (Jul 9, 2022)

maomao said:


> Only one?


Better check the names on his nomination paper carefully...


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> That’s all true from one perspective. Except, he hasn’t yet resigned as party leader: he’s agreed to resign as party leader  at some future point, as part of the reselection process. (The process _to be announced_ next week).
> 
> “It is clearly now the will of the parliamentary Conservative Party that there should be a new leader of *that* party” (my emphasis).
> 
> ...



How do you know he hasn't resigned? All the indications are that he has, otherwise Tory bigwigs would be kicking off.

Brady seems to think he has:


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> How do you know he hasn't resigned? All the indications are that he has, otherwise Tory bigwigs would be kicking off.
> 
> Brady seems to think he has:



I’m going by the way he worded his speech.  It doesn’t say “I resign”.  

It’s true he may have said those words in private but he hasn’t said them in public.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> How do you know he hasn't resigned? All the indications are that he has, otherwise Tory bigwigs would be kicking off.
> 
> Brady seems to think he has:



Strictly speaking, Luke McGee seems to think Brady thinks he has.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2022)

He signed a resignation letter to Brady/the party, the fact that he didn't say 'resign' during his speech doesn't matter, Johnson was probably thinking it was better to leave out, for some slight face saving reason.


----------



## maomao (Jul 9, 2022)

Is there a protocol for resigning? Does a letter have to be sent to someone?


----------



## maomao (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> He signed a resignation letter to Brady/the party,


Source?


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 9, 2022)

Glad to see Wallace out of the race, I think that could have gone very quick;y from "Isn't is refreshing to have a no-nonsense military man running things" to "Oh, but I wasn't expecting him to use the army against the strikers."


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2022)

maomao said:


> Source?



It was reported live on the day by Sky News, first the Chief Whip went in to tell him in a VoNC only 65 MPs were likely to support him,, then about an hour latter they reported a resignation letter was being drawn-up, and after that, that he had signed it. He did his speech over 2 hours later, so plenty of time for careful wording that Johnson with agree too,

Impossible to find a source online now, as any search including 'Johnson' and 'resignation letter' returns results including all those 62 MPs that resigned, on a google news search almost 1.5 million results!


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It was reported live on the day by Sky News, first the Chief Whip went in to tell him in a VoNC only 65 MPs were likely to support him,, then about an hour latter they reported a resignation letter was being drawn-up, and after that, that he had signed it. He did his speech over 2 hours later, so plenty of time for careful wording that Johnson with agree too,
> 
> Impossible to find a source online now, as any search including 'Johnson' and 'resignation letter' returns results including all those 62 MPs that resigned, on a google news search almost 1.5 million results!


All the relevant searches I've come up with so far have the wording "A No 10 source said Mr _Johnson_ spoke to Sir _Graham Brady_, chairman of the Conservative 1922 Committee, to inform him of his decision" or variations on that, from 2 days ago. No mention of a letter. But these are Jesuitical distinctions. 
Oh wait.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 9, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> Glad to see Wallace out of the race, I think that could have gone very quick;y from "Isn't is refreshing to have a no-nonsense military man running things" to "Oh, but I wasn't expecting him to use the army against the strikers."



Probably the other way around - he's been very public, and _stridently_ so, about telling other ministers and administrations that the Army does not exist to be used as a pool of labour for when they fail to run their public services properly.

He takes the view that using the Army to collect bins is as outrageous as using paramedics, or teachers to do so...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 9, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Probably the other way around - he's been very public, and _stridently_ so, about telling other ministers and administrations that the Army does not exist to be used as a pool of labour for when they fail to run their public services properly.
> 
> He takes the view that using the Army to collect bins is as outrageous as using paramedics, or teachers to do so...



Except bin men and teachers actually have other stuff to do.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> He signed a resignation letter to Brady/the party, the fact that he didn't say 'resign' during his speech doesn't matter, Johnson was probably thinking it was better to leave out, for some slight face saving reason.


Look, I think he’s out. We’re speculating about what he may think he can pull off.  Key words: May and think.

It’s clear he has to resign as leader of the Tory party.  He may have privately already done so, or he may formally have to as part of the process beginning next week.

However, the Prime Minister does not have to be the leader of the largest party in the House. They only have to be able to command a majority.  Here’s how he could command a majority: form a new party with him as leader and claim he has a personal mandate from the electorate from 2019.  Refuse to resign as Prime Minister (this can wait until the autumn).

Then, Starmer calls a vote of no confidence in the prime minister.  Would the now-diminished Tories back Starmer or Johnson?  

Remember, Johnson gamed the prorogation early in his premiership. He’s a risk taker. He may (may) believe he can game this.

Clearly this is supposition. A bit of fun. We don’t know. Can we rule it (or something like it) out? Well, it’s BoJo. We cannot. Indeed, it may explain the peculiarly evasive wording of his speech. 

Will he actually try it? Who knows.  Would it work? No.


----------



## JimW (Jul 9, 2022)

How's about: he probably has the instinctive low cunning and experience to keep it vague at the point of crisis to let him hang on and see where it looks like things are going, i.e. more he left himself that option rather than has already decided to try it on?


----------



## kebabking (Jul 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Except bin men and teachers actually have other stuff to do.



Remarkably, so do soldiers....


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 9, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Who or what is talking about?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 9, 2022)

JimW said:


> How's about: he probably has the instinctive low cunning and experience to keep it vague at the point of crisis to let him hang on and see where it looks like things are going, i.e. more he left himself that option rather than has already decided to try it on?


Yup.  This.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 9, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Remarkably, so do soldiers....



Should have specified something useful, that's on me.


----------



## killer b (Jul 9, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Who or what is talking about?


He's talking about Sunak


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Look, I think he’s out. We’re speculating about what he may think he can pull off.  Key words: May and think.
> 
> It’s clear he has to resign as leader of the Tory party.  He may have privately already done so, or he may formally have to as part of the process beginning next week.
> 
> ...


 
Johnson couldn't command a majority in the house, the Tories would be happy in backing a Labour motion of no confidence in him as PM, in full confidence that it wouldn't result in a general election, as the Queen would have to look for someone else who could command a majority, before dissolving parliament, and that would be the new Tory leader.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Johnson couldn't command a majority in the house, the Tories would be happy in backing a Labour motion of no confidence in him as PM, in full confidence that it wouldn't result in a general election, as the Queen would have to look for someone else who could command a majority, before dissolving parliament, and that would be the new Tory leader.


I don't think such a barmpot plan would have a hope of working but you're this is Johnson he IS crazy enough to try it if he thought it might work.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Johnson couldn't command a majority in the house, the Tories would be happy in backing a Labour motion of no confidence in him as PM, in full confidence that it wouldn't result in a general election, as the Queen would have to look for someone else who could command a majority, before dissolving parliament, and that would be the new Tory leader.


Yeah, if you read what I said, I don’t think it would work. I did say that.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 9, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> That's Braverman's only talking point, really, and if Dorries really is standing too I think it's beyond doubt it'll turn into this.



Zahawi just said in his campaign launch he wants to focus on “letting children be children, protecting them from damaging and inappropriate nonsense being forced on them by radical activists", so I think they’ll all be at it soon.


----------



## JimW (Jul 9, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Zahawi just said in his campaign launch he wants to focus on “letting children be children, protecting them from damaging and inappropriate nonsense being forced on them by radical activists", so I think they’ll all be at it soon.


Maybe he means he wants to scrap all the pointless testing in schools foisted on kids as a sop to 3 Rs fundies?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> I don't think such a barmpot plan would have a hope of working but you're this is Johnson he IS crazy enough to try it if he thought it might work.





danny la rouge said:


> Yeah, if you read what I said, I don’t think it would work. I did say that.



I did read it, and noted you don’t think it would work.

But, my point is he wouldn't even try it, he's a proper twat, but he's not likely to try anything so mad, even if only because of advice/pressure from family, friends, and others close to him.

It was only a few days ago that loads of people were saying he would never resign, but when comforted with reality, he did.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2022)

THIS JUST IN!

#breathless


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 9, 2022)

JimW said:


> How's about: he probably has the instinctive low cunning and experience to keep it vague at the point of crisis to let him hang on and see where it looks like things are going, i.e. more he left himself that option rather than has already decided to try it on?


I think this pretty much describes his whole career. Certainly describes his entire PMship. And I think you're right. Is he currently the PM? Well, sort of, yes. Ok then, let's see what tomorrow brings.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 9, 2022)

spitfire said:


> THIS JUST IN!
> 
> #breathless
> 
> View attachment 331420



HUUUUUUGE IF TRUE!!!!!!


----------



## kebabking (Jul 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Should have specified something useful, that's on me.



You shouldn't judge others by your own failings - it will make the world a very dark place for you...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 9, 2022)

I think it's very likely that Johnson will continue disrupt and fuck about throughout the leadership election. He loves attention. He loves power. That will not change. He will sell his backing to the highest bidder and seek to extract revenge on his enemies. He will definitely not keep his gob shut.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

kebabking said:


> HUUUUUUGE IF TRUE!!!!!!


Dorries will be his puppet then?


----------



## andysays (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Johnson couldn't command a majority in the house, the Tories would be happy in backing a Labour motion of no confidence in him as PM, in full confidence that it wouldn't result in a general election, as the Queen would have to look for someone else who could command a majority, before dissolving parliament, and that would be the new Tory leader.



Except the new Tory leader is yet to be chosen, and even if they shortened the existing process, it will still take a few weeks or possibly months, so there is a theoretical window of opportunity.

Again, I'm not saying this would work, or even that Johnson would try it, but some of your supposed "common sense" assumptions recently don't actually hold water


----------



## emanymton (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I did read it, and noted you don’t think it would work.
> 
> But, my point is he wouldn't even try it, he's a proper twat, but he's not likely to try anything so mad, even if only because of advice/pressure from family, friends, and others close to him.
> 
> It was only a few days ago that loads of people were saying he would never resign, but when comforted with reality, he did.


I think he is/was hoping to find so way to hang in, but he will release there is no way it can be done and no moves will be made, beyond trying to drag out the whole process as long as possible


----------



## bimble (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt you’re carrying on exactly the same missing the point argument with various people for a few days now. But you do get it really, cos look at yr own last post, where you reckon that ‘family & friends’ will make him see sense, that acknowledges the possibility that Boris Johnson may think weird things, non-sensible things, inside his own head, do you see, and that’s all anyone has been saying this whole time.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2022)

bimble said:


> cupid_stunt you’re carrying on exactly the same missing the point argument with various people for a few days now. But you do get it really, cos look at yr own last post, where you reckon that ‘family & friends’ will make him see sense, that acknowledges the possibility that Boris Johnson may think weird things, non-sensible things, inside his own head, do you see, and that’s all anyone has been saying this whole time.



The point is that it doesn't matter what crazy ideas pop up in this head briefly, he's not actually going to act on them, because reality is also floating around in his head.


----------



## maomao (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It was reported live on the day by Sky News, first the Chief Whip went in to tell him in a VoNC only 65 MPs were likely to support him,, then about an hour latter they reported a resignation letter was being drawn-up, and after that, that he had signed it. He did his speech over 2 hours later, so plenty of time for careful wording that Johnson with agree too,
> 
> Impossible to find a source online now, as any search including 'Johnson' and 'resignation letter' returns results including all those 62 MPs that resigned, on a google news search almost 1.5 million results!


Well my only source for it is some fucking weirdo on the internet who says he saw it on telly.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The point is that it doesn't matter what crazy ideas pop up in this head briefly, he's not actually going to act on them, because reality is also floating around in his head.


I'm not 100% sure about the reality thing...


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 9, 2022)




----------



## two sheds (Jul 9, 2022)

existentialist said:


> I'm not 100% sure about the reality thing...


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 9, 2022)

Twat. It's going to be him isn't it?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> View attachment 331435


One with added bunnies for existentialist


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Twat. It's going to be him isn't it?



I don't think so because the wheels will come off that bus very easily


----------



## Chz (Jul 9, 2022)

Lucy Fur said:


> To give some context to this, France varies enormasly. Much is still working class agricultural and in those regions the above is significantly less so. There of course is still racism, mainly directed at North African countries. Sadly. I live in the Gers, SW France, in a small hamlet, my neighbours are french, save for a Belgian and Egyptian couple. They hate the Parisians for the reasons you give, and also those from the Alsace regions for the same. I take your point, but just wanted to give a French perspective on it because France is huge and varies a lot. My nearest cities, Toulouse, Bordeaux, Montpellier, feel very similar to the multi cultural south London I left.


The racism expresses itself differently in different parts of the country. And differently from how it appears in the UK. But you're not going to convince me that Montpellier, long time heartland of the FN with FN MPs and voting massively for Le Pen is a place of racial harmony any more than Calais is.


----------



## stavros (Jul 9, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> I think it's very likely that Johnson will continue disrupt and fuck about throughout the leadership election. He loves attention. He loves power. That will not change. He will sell his backing to the highest bidder and seek to extract revenge on his enemies. He will definitely not keep his gob shut.


If I won I'd make him Northern Ireland secretary.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 9, 2022)

they really don't have anyone do they.All those that have declared so far have huge problems.Javid might be thought to be a frontrunner but he bears a striking resemblance to a dalek and in fact also sounds like one.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 9, 2022)




----------



## billy_bob (Jul 9, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Twat. It's going to be him isn't it?



Not so sure. Sunak's standing is based to a large extent on the fact that for the first 18 months of the pandemic he was the only member of the government who did anything useful. But Hancock and Williamson and the rest, not to mention Johnson himself, were doing a great job of making sure he got disproportionate credit by all being so utterly useless. And no one's going to vote for him based on that, because that was pretty much the only situation in which Tories would regard the goverment successfully handing out wads of money (to the plebs, that is, rather than their mates with companies looking for govt contracts) as a positive achievement.


----------



## donkyboy (Jul 9, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Twat. It's going to be him isn't it?




this is a gem. needs to be shared all around


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 9, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> this is a gem. needs to be shared all around


It's getting heavily retweeted and is all over FB according to my mate.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 9, 2022)




----------



## kebabking (Jul 9, 2022)

I think Sunak does have a constituency among Tory MP's, and there are probably more who will be reasonably happy to see him win purely because he'd be less of a total gangfuck than Johnson - but I think there will be many who look at him/family/wealth and see two years of dripping stories about _novel_ tax arrangements and the like.

I don't see Shapps as being serious, it's simply about getting someone to buy him off with a cabinet job.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 9, 2022)

kebabking said:


> I think Sunak does have a constituency among Tory MP's, and there are probably more who will be reasonably happy to see him win purely because he'd be less of a total gangfuck than Johnson - but I think there will be many who look at him/family/wealth and see two years of dripping stories about _novel_ tax arrangements and the like.
> 
> I don't see Shapps as being serious, it's simply about getting someone to buy him off with a cabinet job.



It's always worth keeping that in mind, isn't it. I'd see Braverman's and Badenoch's bids, at least, in a similar light - they'll possibly influence the tone of the campaign somewhat on their pet issues (which in both cases seem mainly to be how to pull up the ladder behind them...) and raise their own profiles for the future, but otherwise they're makeweights.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 9, 2022)

I genuinely have no idea at the moment who might win. I don't actually WANT any of them but alas it is not up to me.
It's definitely a case of who is least worse rather than who is best


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

Jeremy Hunt joins the race for the leadership


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 9, 2022)

Good god, I never thought I'd say this about Hunt in any context but he seems like the least worst so far. That's no endorsement, mind - purely a reflection of how disgustingly low the bar is.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I did read it, and noted you don’t think it would work.
> 
> But, my point is he wouldn't even try it, he's a proper twat, but he's not likely to try anything so mad, even if only because of advice/pressure from family, friends, and others close to him.
> 
> It was only a few days ago that loads of people were saying he would never resign, but *when comforted with reality*, he did.


Lovely typo.
Johnson, comforted with reality. That will be the day.


----------



## agricola (Jul 9, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Good god, I never thought I'd say this about Hunt in any context but he seems like the least worst so far. That's no endorsement, mind - purely a reflection of how disgustingly low the bar is.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 9, 2022)

Looking through Wikipedia, the current longlist has the largest number of people of colour to ever put themselves forward for leader. One more woman to make it the most ever.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 9, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Not so sure. Sunak's standing is based to a large extent on the fact that for the first 18 months of the pandemic he was the only member of the government who did anything useful. But Hancock and Williamson and the rest, not to mention Johnson himself, were doing a great job of making sure he got disproportionate credit by all being so utterly useless. And no one's going to vote for him based on that, because that was pretty much the only situation in which Tories would regard the goverment successfully handing out wads of money (to the plebs, that is, rather than their mates with companies looking for govt contracts) as a positive achievement.


Plenty


PR1Berske said:


> Looking through Wikipedia, the current longlist has the largest number of people of colour to ever put themselves forward for leader. One more woman to make it the most ever.


Your point being?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 9, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Plenty
> 
> Your point being?


An observation.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 9, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Not so sure. Sunak's standing is based to a large extent on the fact that for the first 18 months of the pandemic he was the only member of the government who did anything useful. But Hancock and Williamson and the rest, not to mention Johnson himself, were doing a great job of making sure he got disproportionate credit by all being so utterly useless. And no one's going to vote for him based on that, because that was pretty much the only situation in which Tories would regard the goverment successfully handing out wads of money (to the plebs, that is, rather than their mates with companies looking for govt contracts) as a positive achievement.





bluescreen said:


> Plenty



I don't know what you mean here - is it that you think plenty will vote for him because of his pandemic record? What makes you think so? My feeling is that it made him look good while there _was _a pandemic but now most people think (wrongly, but still...) that that's all over, many Tories will feel soiled by the necessity of handouts and want to distance themselves from it, and will question his commitment to their core article of faith of cutting taxes.

(I wasn't and am not doubting that plenty will vote for him _despite _this btw - just that he's a shoe-in, which seemed to be Calamity1971 's fear. He may still be the candidate to beat, but his star's a lot dimmer than it was a year or so ago.)


----------



## stdP (Jul 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Looking through Wikipedia, the current longlist has the largest number of people of colour to ever put themselves forward for leader. One more woman to make it the most ever.



As a display of modern global British society, it's a superb example of how people of any gender, colour, creed or religion can rise to the highest echelons of bastardly power whilst still leaving everyone else of any gender, colour, creed or religion to starve, freeze and be eaten by rats.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 9, 2022)

Said Javid also enter the race


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 9, 2022)

agricola said:


>




Well, there you go. _Almost_ hitting someone with a bell is pretty low-level villainy and incompetence compared with the last two years. (Not sure that's the best example of just how bad Hunt can be, mind...)


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 9, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I don't know what you mean here - is it that you think plenty will vote for him because of his pandemic record? What makes you think so? My feeling is that it made him look good while there _was _a pandemic but now most people think (wrongly, but still...) that that's all over, many Tories will feel soiled by the necessity of handouts and want to distance themselves from it, and will question his commitment to their core article of faith of cutting taxes.
> 
> (I wasn't and am not doubting that plenty will vote for him _despite _this btw - just that he's a shoe-in, which seemed to be Calamity1971 's fear. He may still be the candidate to beat, but his star's a lot dimmer than it was a year or so ago.)


Sorry, I think that must have been a mismatch of comment and random quote that I hadn't noticed, because I don't understand it either.  As it happens, I wouldn't place a bet on how much support Sunak has. He's popular in his own constituency but clearly there's a lot of antipathy elsewhere for someone who's seen as privileged and out of touch. The covid handouts popularity has probably been eclipsed by the furlough fraud scandal.


----------



## elbows (Jul 9, 2022)

The underlying reality of Sunaks pandemic influence was that he added to delays in doing the right thing on several key occasions, and his eat out to help out shit was derided when it became clear what affect that had on getting another wave started sooner than would have otherwise been the case. However I am well aware that there is likely to be a large gap between those realities and public and party perceptions.

I dont think I'll spend much time speculating about the likely next leader at this stage, I'll wait until the field has narrowed and until more grenades have been thrown. And I'll try to resist the temptation to read into anything thats based on who the early front runners appear to be.

But certainly Sunaks 'talk up quite how bad the economic conditions are going to be' strategy is not without risk. He is no doubt doing this in order to bolster his 'not completely detached from reality' credentials but the tories may prefer to hear rhetoric that is far removed from reality at this stage.


----------



## elbows (Jul 9, 2022)

Sunak is also the candidate most likely to have to soak up all the accusations of being a 'traitor' that the Johnson camp are throwing his way.


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 9, 2022)

elbows said:


> But certainly Sunaks 'talk up quite how bad the economic conditions are going to be' strategy is not without risk. He is no doubt doing this in order to bolster his 'not completely detached from reality' credentials but the tories may prefer to hear rhetoric that is far removed from reality at this stage.


I think he's badly misjudged how well the 'hard choices' stuff is going to play with the Tory party membership, given he has already somewhat queered his pitch by raising taxes and bungling the response to inflation.

My hunch is the winning candidate will spell out a much more optimistic message, that will very probably turn out to be complete bollox.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 9, 2022)

elbows said:


> He is no doubt doing this in order to bolster his 'not completely detached from reality' credentials but the tories may prefer to hear rhetoric that is far removed from reality at this stage.



And I'm sure there will be plenty of candidates who will claim they can get everything straightened out by christmas.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 9, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> I think he's badly misjudged how well the 'hard choices' stuff is going to play with the Tory party membership, given he has already somewhat queered his pitch by raising taxes and bungling the response to inflation.
> 
> My hunch is the winning candidate will spell out a much more optimistic message, that will very probably turn out to be complete bollox.



That implies we'll get one of the loons, because they'll be the only ones who can barefacedly promote an optimistic message given the state we're in at the moment.


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## contadino (Jul 10, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> My hunch is the winning candidate will spell out a much more optimistic message, that will very probably turn out to be complete bollox.


Given that the new party leader will need to be able to fight an election campaign in due course, I think that's right.


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## bimble (Jul 10, 2022)

I think it’s possible that, after BJ, peoples’s appetite for barefaced bullshit and cheery clownery might be reduced. A bit of boring might be appealing to the party members after all this idk.


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## kabbes (Jul 10, 2022)

bimble said:


> I think it’s possible that, after BJ, peoples’s appetite for barefaced bullshit and cheery clownery might be reduced. A bit of boring might be appealing to the party members after all this idk.


I thought that, then I heard the parade of Conservative member loons on Any Answers and realised nope, they’re just as batshit crazy as they ever were. One, for example, simply said it should be a “good British guy” and that she would not want it to be a woman.


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## Chilli.s (Jul 10, 2022)

Sunak, yet another product of fantastic privilege. What is it with voters that makes them want to be ruled over by upper classes? So rich that they can chose to pay tax or not, if they want. Don't trust him to make choices that wont benefit his rich mates and the world they inhabit that depends on ranks and ranks of poorer drones doing the work that pays their dividends.


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## platinumsage (Jul 10, 2022)

From what I’ve read from party members, Sunak is famous for splurging billions of pounds of hard earned taxes on fraudsters during the pandemic, so any sort of credibility for economic prudence simply isn’t there.


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## bimble (Jul 10, 2022)

Being an idiot i've been popping over to the daily mail comments sections every now and then, to see how they are all doing, the bots and the loons, and they've been deeply unhappy all week but seemingly united only in their dislike of all the non-boris options.
There's also shitloads of 'polite' racism in the way the candidates are being discussed over there, idk what the overlap is with party members but if its a thing that will imo be a significant factor.


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## bimble (Jul 10, 2022)

has liz truss got a logo yet?


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## kabbes (Jul 10, 2022)

bimble said:


> There's also shitloads of 'polite' racism in the way the candidates are being discussed over there, idk what the overlap is with party members but if its a thing that will imo be a significant factor.


Yeah, lots of code words without a doubt.  Sunak’s video, for example, was described as “just not very English”.


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## bimble (Jul 10, 2022)

i don't think this is likely to be true, or if it is true then it's not possible, but wouldn't be at all surprised if he's drunkenly phoned a lawyer to enquire about it (as one of his ex-girlfriends here has decided to claim).


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## Storm Fox (Jul 10, 2022)

bimble said:


> i don't think this is likely to be true, or if it is true then it's not possible, but wouldn't be at all surprised if he's drunkenly phoned a lawyer to enquire about it (as one of his ex-girlfriends here has decided to claim).
> 
> View attachment 331472


I guess if he did that then he wouldn't make the final 2 to go to the party membership, this then would stir up a shitstorm with the local parties.


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## MickiQ (Jul 10, 2022)

stdP said:


> As a display of modern global British society, it's a superb example of how people of any gender, colour, creed or religion can rise to the highest echelons of bastardly power whilst still leaving everyone else of any gender, colour, creed or religion to starve, freeze and be eaten by rats.


Being rich trumps all other social factors


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## MrCurry (Jul 10, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Sunak, yet another product of fantastic privilege. What is it with voters that makes them want to be ruled over by upper classes? So rich that they can chose to pay tax or not, if they want.


Probably the naive belief that someone who has done so well for themself will have the ability to do similar for the whole country. The Trump delusion.

It obviously ignores the fact that people who do well for themselves do so at the expense of others, and the fact they‘re seeking high office can only be seen as an attempt to do even better for themselves at the expense of even more people.


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## Elpenor (Jul 10, 2022)

I’ve been asleep 9 hours - any more of the candidates been exposed as nonces / sex pests / crooks / tax cheats / liars overnight?


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## contadino (Jul 10, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Being rich trumps all other social factors


Not with any of the tory voters I know (admittedly only half a dozen people, so rather anecdotal). What would really get them wound up would be to have two Asians to choose between. I suspect that would lead to them cancelling their membership.


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## PR1Berske (Jul 10, 2022)




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## platinumsage (Jul 10, 2022)

Mordaunt launches a culture war salvo of her own:


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## MickiQ (Jul 10, 2022)

contadino said:


> Not with any of the tory voters I know (admittedly only half a dozen people, so rather anecdotal). What would really get them wound up would be to have two Asians to choose between. I suspect that would lead to them cancelling their membership.


Win either way then


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## Petcha (Jul 10, 2022)

All the candidates doing the sunday morning shows at the mo. Shapps is easily the best communicator. Must be all that practice he got being wheeled out to defend the indefensible day after day.


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## bimble (Jul 10, 2022)

it is going to be truly hideous. all of them competing to prove how very not "woke" they are. Because they can't think of anything else to offer people just more of that. properly depressing. Maybe they just know their audience idk.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 10, 2022)

The39thStep said:


>



Buxton? Well, we all know what Buxton’s like. He took it off in a bar, didn’t he?


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## platinumsage (Jul 10, 2022)

Mordaunt caught out already:


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## PR1Berske (Jul 10, 2022)

Jeremy Hunt has told "Sunday Morning" on BBC One that he will have Esther McVey as his running mate.


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## platinumsage (Jul 10, 2022)

I'm dying. Same music, same slow-mo shots, same narration.


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## MickiQ (Jul 10, 2022)

At the moment they all seem to be involved in a bit of a pissing contest over who is going to be the biggest tax cutter of them all.
Despite a complete lack of evidence that it works cutting taxes to stimulate growth is a bit of a holy grail on the economic right.


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## Supine (Jul 10, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> At the moment they all seem to be involved in a bit if a pissing contest over who is going to be the biggest tax cutter of them all.
> Despite a complete lack of evidence that it works cutting taxes to stimulate growth is a bit of a holy grail on the economic right.



It’s just positioning against sunak I’d imagine. It’ll be one of them against him so they’ll try to win the swivel eye members vs his ‘sensible’ conservatism.


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## marty21 (Jul 10, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I think and hope that would finish the Tories off at the next election


They are fucked whoever takes over , been in power too long , they are at the stage the Tories were in 64 & 97, & Labour were in 2010, totally spent, about to go into the political wilderness.  Loads of Tory voters are fucked off with the "betrayal" of Boris . Arguably the red wall seats fell to them due to Boris. There's no magic pill of brexit to vote for now , so there's loads of one term mps who'll need to get proper jobs shortly. 

Fuck knows what a Starmer government will be like 🤣


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## marty21 (Jul 10, 2022)

It is delicious seeing the in-fighting going on , the reinstate Boris petition (he's still PM ffs)  the rumours he will do a Major and run for leadership.  Boris staff leaking sensitive info about Tory scandal to Labour 🤣

When Tories fall out , they really fucking fall out.


----------



## Fairweather (Jul 10, 2022)




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## Storm Fox (Jul 10, 2022)

marty21 said:


> It is delicious seeing the in-fighting going on , the reinstate Boris petition (he's still PM ffs)  the rumours he will do a Major and run for leadership.  Boris staff leaking sensitive info about Tory scandal to Labour 🤣
> 
> When Tories fall out , they really fucking fall out.


Because they are self-centred and think in terms of the best way to get an advantage over everyone else, otherwise they wouldn't be tories.


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## marty21 (Jul 10, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Because they are self-centred and think in terms of the best way to get an advantage over everyone else, otherwise they wouldn't be tories.


They managed to convince the Lib Dems otherwise in 2010 🤣


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## billy_bob (Jul 10, 2022)

Is a Tory leadership election the only form of contest where with each addition of a new competitor, you feel like the choice is _worse_ than it was before?

The vibe you get with each new announcement is not so much 'democracy at work' as 'Ta da! We STILL haven't run out of cunts!' I actually preferred the coronation of Johnson last time round - at least we only had to listen to two of them.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 10, 2022)




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## brogdale (Jul 10, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> 'Ta da! We STILL haven't run out of cunts!'


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## Petcha (Jul 10, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I'm dying. Same music, same slow-mo shots, same narration.




That first one is actually real?
christ. just. fuck.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 10, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Mordaunt launches a culture war salvo of her own:




Predictably it's gone down like a ton of shit with both sides.


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## marty21 (Jul 10, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I'm dying. Same music, same slow-mo shots, same narration.



Blimey , all through that I was convinced it was a parody video , I was correct .


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## maomao (Jul 10, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> actually preferred the coronation of Johnson last time round - at least we only had to listen to two of them.


There were ten candidates at the start, you've just (sensibly imo) erased the opening stages from your memory.


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## A380 (Jul 10, 2022)

marty21 said:


> They managed to convince the Lib Dems otherwise in 2010 🤣


TBF Its not hard to convince a Lib Dem of anything really...


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## Elpenor (Jul 10, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Predictably it's gone down like a ton of shit with both sides.


And achieved its main goal of getting Mordaunt airtime and exposure


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## Bingoman (Jul 10, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Jeremy Hunt has told "Sunday Morning" on BBC One that he will have Esther McVey as his running mate.


He really has lost the plot


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## two sheds (Jul 10, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Blimey , all through that I was convinced it was a parody video , I was correct .


yep all the way through I was thinking 'no i'm not going to be had by this" I had to flick to the end to check.


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## A380 (Jul 10, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Blimey , all through that I was convinced it was a parody video , I was correct .


I think it's great that a politician   should involve a year 8 Media Studies class in her campaign...


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## marty21 (Jul 10, 2022)

A380 said:


> I think it's great that a politician   should involve a year 8 Media Studies class in her campaign...


It's all about the kids , they are the future , teach them well and I can't remember the rest of the lyrics


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## donkyboy (Jul 10, 2022)

How many more times are we gonna hear "I came to the country with nothing. I know what its like" statements from these Tory candidates? 
You still going to represent the interest of the well-off so cut the crap.


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## A380 (Jul 10, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> At the moment they all seem to be involved in a bit of a pissing contest over who is going to be the biggest tax cutter of them all.
> Despite a complete lack of evidence that it works cutting taxes to stimulate growth is a bit of a holy grail on the economic right.


Got to do what your boss says...


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## spitfire (Jul 10, 2022)

I couldn't bring myself to watch it but apparently another classic patriot getting soldiers wrong.


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## not-bono-ever (Jul 10, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Zahawi is my pick. He's a good man as far as I know, and highly competent. What I found quite amusing over the last few days was the polls usually referred to in the media reflecting how fucked Boris was were conducted by YouGov, the company he founded.
> 
> But having met a few of these fuckers, he's the pick of them. 'Interesting' move to take over like Chancellor like that though. I'd like to think it was a chess move in order to release his statement this morning.


hes a cunt


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## billy_bob (Jul 10, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> How many more times are we gonna hear "I came to the country with nothing. I know what its like" statements from these Tory candidates?
> You still going to represent the interest of the well-off so cut the crap.



Fair play to them - they're doing their best to make sure all young people in Britain start out that way, so that they too can aspire to the highest office in the land.


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## marty21 (Jul 10, 2022)

Didn't notice this when I watched it , but the Daily Mail did (who are clearly not Penny fans) but there is a clip on her video of Johnny Peacock winning a race for Britain _salutes_ in the 2012 Olympics , someone who was also in the race & therefore features in the video, is Oscar Pistorius 😳 it is a very brief glimpse but the mail is painting it as an early blow to her campaign.


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## teqniq (Jul 10, 2022)

Hahaha

Dirty dossiers on S&M and affairs as Tory rivals turn on each other


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## marty21 (Jul 10, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Hahaha
> 
> Dirty dossiers on S&M and affairs as Tory rivals turn on each other
> 
> View attachment 331520


Labour don't need to do anything here (but file the sleaze away for later)


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2022)

This is already a little out of date since Baker announced he would not stand and would back Braverman, but anyway...


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## marty21 (Jul 10, 2022)

elbows said:


> This is already a little out of date since Baker announced he would not stand and would back Braverman, but anyway...



Excellent in-fighting skillz


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> At the moment they all seem to be involved in a bit of a pissing contest over who is going to be the biggest tax cutter of them all.
> Despite a complete lack of evidence that it works cutting taxes to stimulate growth is a bit of a holy grail on the economic right.


My brief comments about Sunaks risky approach of talking up the impending economic doom rather missed out the fact that this stance is used to support his rather different attitude towards the most obvious of tax cuts, that such cuts need to wait for some other time.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 10, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Labour don't need to do anything here (but file the sleaze away for later)


yep. I'm not sure how likely the rumours are to be true, tbh. A tory is seen with a labour person in a pub? Not the strongest evidence. 

And yeah, Labour would be mad to do anything other than to sit on it and, if it's really bad, hope that person wins. Tories will know that, though, which makes me doubt the rumours.


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## Sue (Jul 10, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> yep. I'm not sure how likely the rumours are to be true, tbh. A tory is seen with a labour person in a pub? Not the strongest evidence.
> 
> And yeah, Labour would be mad to do anything other than to sit on it and, if it's really bad, hope that person wins. Tories will know that, though, which makes me doubt the rumours.


Well, we can dream. We need something to point and laugh at in these depressing times...


----------



## Lucy Fur (Jul 10, 2022)

Chz said:


> The racism expresses itself differently in different parts of the country. And differently from how it appears in the UK. But you're not going to convince me that Montpellier, long time heartland of the FN with FN MPs and voting massively for Le Pen is a place of racial harmony any more than Calais is.


I agree with you, and certainly Montpellier is not without problems. My point was that to say racism in the UK is peanuts compared to France is, imo untrue. There is much work on both sides of the channel to be done.


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## Calamity1971 (Jul 10, 2022)

Petcha said:


> All the candidates doing the sunday morning shows at the mo. Shapps is easily the best communicator. Must be all that practice he got being wheeled out to defend the indefensible day after day.


I quite liked it when speaking to Ridge he said ' Boris's downfall was because he's too loyal'  🤣 . I don't think you and I watched the same interview


----------



## andysays (Jul 10, 2022)

This will go well...

We must leave European Court of Human Rights - Suella Braverman



> Attorney General Suella Braverman - the first to throw her hat in the ring for the leadership contest - has been setting out her position on the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). A stauch Brexiteer, Braverman believes the UK "must fully take back control of our borders" by "leaving the jurisdiction of the ECHR". She says that when people voted for Brexit, they expected this to be done. "The British people should be able to vote for their priorities and expect that their government can carry them out. This is the definition of taking back control," she says.



Full on bid for the Brexit headbanger vote.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2022)

lol.


----------



## Knotted (Jul 10, 2022)

Not running on personality because the candidate hasn't got one.


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## platinumsage (Jul 10, 2022)

She's just posted an edited version with generic shots in place of Oscar Pistorious and the 101st Airborne.


----------



## not a trot (Jul 10, 2022)

Lock them all in a room. Fight to the death. Winner emerges, then shoot him/her.


andysays said:


> This will go well...
> 
> We must leave European Court of Human Rights - Suella Braverman
> 
> ...


That'll be the majority of members who get the final say.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 10, 2022)




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## Storm Fox (Jul 10, 2022)

I wanted to find a meme for ferrets fighting in a sack. but all I could find were pictures of cute ferrets.

So here's a cute ferret picture:


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 10, 2022)

Lot of inappropriate behaviour here.
Mock up?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 10, 2022)

Wanker. 








						‘Squirming’ Jeremy Hunt performs humiliating U-turn on fox hunting
					

Screeching backtrack after ex-Tory MP Nick Boles says: ‘Why not bring back hanging while we’re about it? And the birch. They’re ancient English customs’




					www.independent.co.uk


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## Knotted (Jul 10, 2022)

I know several tories/UKIPy right wingers and some of them very vocal about it. But it's really difficult to know what they think politically other than pro-brexit, anti-immigration, anti-woke, low taxes. The bexit/immigration thing is done and over, the anti-woke thing is not really that important to them and they sort of realise that the low taxes game is up. These days it's much more about personalities, one or two of them really do love Boris, they still love him despite everything and for no particular reason. I don't think they're very interested in any of the contenders for his replacement. I think post Cameron/austerity it has been all about personalities for the Tory media, they haven't really done much in the way of opinion forming on the need to tighten belts wrt cost of living which would be the normal Tory thing to do. They would just like what they perceive as a strong man and there really isn't one on offer.

Anecdotal biases etc.


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## JimW (Jul 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Lot of inappropriate behaviour here.
> Mock up?



Fornication? Well, there's one Victorian value they've brought back.


----------



## maomao (Jul 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Lot of inappropriate behaviour here.
> Mock up?



How come two female MPs are on there for having sex with Kwasi Kwarteng but Kwarteng himself doesn't make the list?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 10, 2022)

maomao said:


> How come two female MPs are on there for having sex with Kwasi Kwarteng ?


You could have stopped there tbh


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 10, 2022)

spitfire said:


> I couldn't bring myself to watch it but apparently another classic patriot getting soldiers wrong.
> 
> View attachment 331518


Band of Brothers was filmed in this country - that has to count for something?


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Lot of inappropriate behaviour here.
> Mock up?



an anonymously published list posted on twitter is hardly damning evidence of anything is it? Whilst such a list may very well exist I would expect it to have details rather than just mostly vague assertions.
Unless I see more then I would reckon this is probably fake


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 10, 2022)

JimW said:


> Fornication? Well, there's one Victorian value they've brought back.




Calm down Mr Apples


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 10, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> an anonymously published list posted on twitter is hardly damning evidence of anything is it? Whilst such a list may very well exist I would expect it to have details rather than just mostly vague assertions.
> Unless I see more then I would reckon this is probably fake




It did the rounds a few months before covid, possibly even before Boris general erection (it’s a medical condition honestly, he has a note) victory.


----------



## bimble (Jul 10, 2022)

I do kind of want to know who the alleged s&m candidate/s are but at the same time I’m pretty sure it’ll just be the same as ever age old traditional pastime of paying someone to do punishment like you remember from your days at boarding school etc. Boring even in their supposed eccentricities these people.


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## Petcha (Jul 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> I quite liked it when speaking to Ridge he said ' Boris's downfall was because he's too loyal'  🤣 . I don't think you and I watched the same interview



Well no, those weren't his words. He was asked if he felt that Johnson 'had integrity'. Which obviously he doesn't. He dodged it slightly by saying that in some cases he had been 'if anything, he had been too loyal to certain people', ie Cummings, Pincher and Hancock. Which I kind of get. He seems incapable of sacking anyone, no matter how badly they fuck up (except Gove of course). Which is a character flaw which he had in City Hall as well. All three of those should have been sacked and they all ended up damaging him.

It's an interesting tight rope the cabinet ministers are walking, given they were basically complicit in Johnson's lies morning after morning on breakfast TV. The only one who can actually say Boris is a lying sack of shit is Jeremy Hunt of all people as he wasn't allowed to play with the big boys/girls in that period.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Lot of inappropriate behaviour here.
> Mock up?



tbf, with just an "affair", Shappsy comes out of that quite well... comparatively speaking, like.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jul 10, 2022)

bimble said:


> I do kind of want to know who the alleged s&m candidate/s are but at the same time I’m pretty sure it’ll just be the same as ever age old traditional pastime of paying someone to do punishment like you remember from your days at boarding school etc. Boring even in their supposed eccentricities these people.


The OED is concise about this


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 10, 2022)

Gove has announced he's backing Kemi Badenoch


----------



## Supine (Jul 10, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Gove has announced he's backing Kemi Badenoch



He doesn’t have any friends in politics anymore


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## WhyLikeThis (Jul 10, 2022)

He’s playing the long game, knowing the next leader will likely lose the coming GE. By backing an outlier he keeps his hands clean for a future attempt himself.

_Hey, look at me being progressive and down with the kids, backing a young black woman_.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 10, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> The OED is concise about thisView attachment 331609



Anglais is it? Remind me again where the S in S and M comes from?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 10, 2022)

is badenoch going to end up the candidate the tory right unite behind? cos that's the one who will likely win the leadership race if it goes to the membership. youd hope that having a right wing culture warrior loon as leader would fuck their chances at the election - but ....


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## two sheds (Jul 10, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> is badenoch going to end up the candidate the tory right unite behind? cos that's the one who will likely win the leadership race if it goes to the membership. youd hope that having a right wing culture warrior loon as leader would fuck their chances at the election - but ....


Mail will come out with "Hurrah for the anti-woke warriors"


----------



## A380 (Jul 10, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Mail will come out with "Hurrah for the anti-woke warriors"


I'm waiting for their picture of (c)Hunt, The Sagge, and Rishi with "Enemies of the People" as the strap line...


----------



## brogdale (Jul 10, 2022)

Genuine laugh out loud moment!


----------



## A380 (Jul 10, 2022)




----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jul 10, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anglais is it? Remind me again where the S in S and M comes from?


A German coined the phrase sadomasachism, a Mr. Richard von Krafft-Ebing in 1890. Masochism was named after Leopold Ritter von Sacher-Masoch, who was born in Lviv, now Ukraine. I'm not sure any of these gentlemen actually invented the practices. English public schools may well have had a hand in promulgating them, though.


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## A380 (Jul 10, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> A German coined the phrase sadomasachism, a Mr. Richard von Krafft-Ebing in 1890. Masochism was named after Leopold Ritter von Sacher-Masoch, who was born in Lviv, now Ukraine. I'm not sure any of these gentlemen actually invented the practices. English public schools may when have had a hand in promulgating them, though.



Say what you like about S&M, they do great sandwiches.


----------



## Sue (Jul 10, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> A German coined the phrase sadomasachism, a Mr. Richard von Krafft-Ebing in 1890. Masochism was named after Leopold Ritter von Sacher-Masoch, who was born in Lviv, now Ukraine. I'm not sure any of these gentlemen actually invented the practices. English public schools may well have had a hand in promulgating them, though.


What about the poor old Marquis de Sade? Does he get no credit for the sadism bit?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 10, 2022)

Christ but it's depressing to think this will be the third prime minister in a row chosen by a straw poll of lowest common denominators.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jul 10, 2022)

Sue said:


> What about the poor old Marquis de Sade? Does he get no credit for the sadism bit?


he does, and he was French, as eluded to by SpookyFrank


----------



## A380 (Jul 10, 2022)

Sue said:


> What about the poor old Marquis de Sade? Does he get no credit for the sadism bit?


No, but Smooth Operator is still a great track.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 10, 2022)

Click on the pic..


----------



## marty21 (Jul 10, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> He’s playing the long game, knowing the next leader will likely lose the coming GE. By backing an outlier he keeps his hands clean for a future attempt himself.
> 
> _Hey, look at me being progressive and down with the kids, backing a young black woman_.


Risky long game , given he is 54 , potentially in his early 60s before he gets another chance . Or he realises that they'll never pick him as leader (more likely) and he'd prefer to be king/queen maker.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 10, 2022)

Back bench mp Rehman Christi is the latest name to enter the contest now


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


>



The horse whisperer... oh wait  Hang on


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 10, 2022)

This took me way too long


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 10, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Christ but it's depressing to think this will be the third prime minister in a row chosen by a straw poll of lowest common denominators.



Yes, feels like it's going to be the one who promises the biggest tax cuts (for the richest, and cuts to just about everything else), hunting trans people with hounds, sending foxes to rwanda, and abolishing human rights altogether

all of which the starmer llama will instruct labour mp's to abstain on in a very forensic manner

blargh


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 10, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Worst Case aig David cover version ever


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 10, 2022)

_phone rings_

Hello? 
Hey Kier, it's me Boris. I've got a plan where you can be in the party that runs the country. Let me explain.... 

First of all, do nothing until October. Then.. Do a vote of no confidence about me and get me voted out. I'll have had three months to tap up those Greens that are actually pretty good at what they do, maybe some Libdems that aren't always pissed and I'll have a word with Farage, Rory, Hancock etc. You bring you're guys that you trust and well.... 

We'll set up a new party, using the best skills of your best boys and girls, my best boys and girls and some of the others from the other parties (because some of them actually believe they can change things). And they _can_ change things if they are with us! 

We'll literally take the best from all parties, I get fired, I run a new party, you all defect to me and you're fucking quids in with a safe job. We'll have to ensure that we also have people from traditionally safe seats from all parties to make sure we properly represent everyone of course _chuckles_. 

You in? I think you're in aren't you. You're a lawyer so you aren't dim and people still remember de Menenzes don't they. It's a fucking brilliant opportunity and a potential gold mine for you. 

So remember, say nothing until November, let me work these next three months getting support from all over (everyone loves a brown envelope), and when I give the signal, you turn me over and we all start a new, more prosperous, leveling up party that caters for all...


----------



## Combustible (Jul 11, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well no, those weren't his words. He was asked if he felt that Johnson 'had integrity'. Which obviously he doesn't. He dodged it slightly by saying that in some cases he had been 'if anything, he had been too loyal to certain people', ie Cummings, Pincher and Hancock. .


Also known as the prince Andrew defence.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 11, 2022)

The reinstate Boris lot are going apeshit 🤣


----------



## marty21 (Jul 11, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Back bench mp Rehman Christi is the latest name to enter the contest now


Who the fuck is he ? 🤣


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 11, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Who the fuck is he ? 🤣


I googled him, and still nope? And I watch pmq's every week .


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> I watch pmq's every week .


Not just tory MPs into degrading and humiliating masochistic acts then I guess.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 11, 2022)

Bit like you logging into urban then


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 11, 2022)

killer b said:


> Not just tory MPs into degrading and humiliating masochistic acts then I guess.


Yes dear.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 11, 2022)

All their snouts are twitching at the thought of getting stuck in the magic money trough.

Amazing that theres so much money now for tax cuts when there was nothing to prevent the hardships of austerity and the decimation of public services.


----------



## bimble (Jul 11, 2022)

If they carry on like this as a party (vote for me because I’m very un-woke I’ll protect the statues and send the refugees to the bottom of the sea etc) they are screwing themselves for the future aren’t they, the old and racist aren’t a great long term strategy.


----------



## Knotted (Jul 11, 2022)

bimble said:


> If they carry on like this as a party (vote for me because I’m very un-woke I’ll protect the statues and send the refugees to the bottom of the sea etc) they are screwing themselves for the future aren’t they, the old and racist aren’t a great long term strategy.



To be fair that's the selectorate they're pitching to right now.


----------



## bimble (Jul 11, 2022)

Knotted said:


> To be fair that's the selectorate they're pitching to right now.


Yep. But maybe a bit like the republicans in America it has a built in obsolescence.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 11, 2022)

It's difficult for them (  ) because they need to pitch to MPs to get any hope of being in the final two, but at the same time they also need to pitch to membership who might have very different ideas from MPs as to what is or isn't acceptable for a candidate to come out with. All the while they need to be mindful that there's no point in pandering to the party if they can't convince that party they can get enough broad support from the electorate to win a GE against Starmer.


----------



## contadino (Jul 11, 2022)

bimble said:


> If they carry on like this as a party (vote for me because I’m very un-woke I’ll protect the statues and send the refugees to the bottom of the sea etc) they are screwing themselves for the future aren’t they, the old and racist aren’t a great long term strategy.


We're all getting older and the tory press are formenting racism, so it's a pretty solid strategy. There's no doubt in my mind that over the last 10 years racism in the UK has got a lot worse (or better if you're pitching for the tory leadership role).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 11, 2022)

bimble said:


> Yep. But maybe a bit like the republicans in America it has a built in obsolescence.


And yet we always seem to have old, right wing and racist people about.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 11, 2022)

I see everyone's been busily leaking shit on their opponents to the tabloids. It's just gonna be six more weeks of this crabs-in-a-bucket shit isn't it?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 11, 2022)

Could have picked any of the candidates bar Sunak (for example Jawid who called for a bigger NIC increase less than 12 months ago and now wants massive cuts in the NHS and other budgets to fund tax cuts) but this clown:


called for a 9% pay award for teachers  LAST WEEK
Also LAST WEEK stated he would be the ‘evidence based’ chancellor. Presumably the evidence he’s looked at includes the evidence from his own department (OBR report) that corporation tax and other incentives to the private sector will not spark investment. Businesses traditionally invest when they can see a return on their money and as of now they do not see they return/are price gouging instead.
Has overlooked the evidence that cutting government spending in those circumstances is insane: when the private sector does not invest and no longer innovates in capitalist economies (which is a long run trend in the British economy) then government spending is the key element in national income. It is not money wasted. It is part of our national income.
Has missed the evidence that the key driver of inflation in 2022 is corporate profit. Cutting tax for the richest - and depressing spending by government - is a sure fire way of creating recession as investment collapses without government spending. 
In amongst the euphoria of the demise of Johnson some of us warned that what came next would be even worse, and here we are. A dozen swivel eyed loons competing to see who can create the deepest recession, channel the most money to their rich chums while over 10 million people are tipped into food and energy poverty. All of it cheered on by the media celebrating a return of ‘serious’ debate and policy. The airwaves full of rich reminiscing about Reagan and Thatcher, the small state and the myth of the entrepreneur and the market tricking down the wealth.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 11, 2022)

We all knew whoever came after Boris would be bad, in fairness, the euphoria has been entirely about seeing the bastards be miserable for once. 

Troubke with the so-called grilling the candidates have been getting on the economy so far of course is that all the people doing it are either Tories, paid by Tories or don't really feel comfortable going in on a subject they're wobbly about


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 11, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> We all knew whoever came after Boris would be bad, in fairness, the euphoria has been entirely about seeing the bastards be miserable for once.



I get that. But there was/is also a mistaken assumption that ‘Johnson’ was an explanation for the crisis rather than a symptom of it

As people are about to find out the populist experiment is about to be replaced with the resumption of old establishment rule and Thatcherism.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## platinumsage (Jul 11, 2022)

I'm convinced he's actually a deep-cover comedian:


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## magneze (Jul 11, 2022)

They're all dangerous loons. Hopefully will hubristically call and lose a general election after winning. 🤞


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 11, 2022)

Braverman representing the Neo-Hitlerite wing of the party


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 11, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> We all knew whoever came after Boris would be bad, in fairness, the euphoria has been entirely about seeing the bastards be miserable for once.
> 
> Troubke with the so-called grilling the candidates have been getting on the economy so far of course is that all the people doing it are either Tories, paid by Tories or don't really feel comfortable going in on a subject they're wobbly about


Trouble with the whole process is that it's tory on tory. It's profoundly undemocratic. BBC, Sky, etc, shouldn't even interview them. If the tories want their members to hear the candidates' views, they should arrange something themselves.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2022)

Personally, I think Sunak will get stabbed in the back during this election, however ...


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Personally, I think Sunak will get stabbed in the back during this election, however ...



"He who wields the knife doesn't wear the crown," is a common Toryism throughout their leadership elections.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 11, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Personally, I think Sunak will get stabbed in the back during this election, however ...



JP can be very irritating, but nail-on-the-head with that.


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 11, 2022)

I find it scary how sleazy and incompetent some of the contenders are, and those are just the ones I know something about. 

I suppose I could reassure myself with the thought they may not win, but how the hell are slippery characters like Zahawi and Shapps even getting close to a position where they could become the most powerful in the land.  Isn’t this a clear warning signal that the system itself is fucked up?


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> I find it scary how sleazy and incompetent some of the contenders are, and those are just the ones I know something about.
> 
> I suppose I could reassure myself with the thought they may not win, but how the hell are slippery characters like Zahawi and Shapps even getting close to a position where they could become the most powerful in the land.  Isn’t this a clear warning signal that the system itself is fucked up?


dude, did you not see the last guy?


----------



## ska invita (Jul 11, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


>



RS can be very irritating, but nail-on-the-head with that.


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 11, 2022)

killer b said:


> dude, did you not see the last guy?


Yeah, I know. It’s grim.

How are people so gullible?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 11, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> I find it scary how sleazy and incompetent some of the contenders are, and those are just the ones I know something about.
> 
> I suppose I could reassure myself with the thought they may not win, but how the hell are slippery characters like Zahawi and Shapps even getting close to a position where they could become the most powerful in the land.  Isn’t this a clear warning signal that the system itself is fucked up?



Zahawi and Shapps are joke candidates. The likely run off will be Sunak/Truss. Johnson and those seeking to replace him are symptoms and not the cause. They are the spectre of the Britain after 45 years of neo-liberalism made flesh.


----------



## Spandex (Jul 11, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> I find it scary how sleazy and incompetent some of the contenders are, and those are just the ones I know something about.
> 
> I suppose I could reassure myself with the thought they may not win, but how the hell are slippery characters like Zahawi and Shapps even getting close to a position where they could become the most powerful in the land.  Isn’t this a clear warning signal that the system itself is fucked up?


Remember we're at the stage of the contest where a lot of it is about jostling for position in the next government rather than realistic attempts to become leader.

Each grouplet in the party will pick someone to stand for them, then when the realistic candidates become apparent they'll throw their support behind whoever offers them the best deal/cabinet position, bringing their supporters with them.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 11, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>






I assume the budget for this department is around 10p.


----------



## donkyboy (Jul 11, 2022)

I just find it amusing the every growing list of candidates, most of whom will get eliminated in the first round.


----------



## BCBlues (Jul 11, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> View attachment 331674
> 
> I assume the budget for this department is around 10p.



Just under a shilling if you dont mind


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> I just find it amusing the every growing list of candidates, most of whom will get eliminated in the first round.


Most of them have no expectation of getting past the first round


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 11, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> I just find it amusing the every growing list of candidates, most of whom will get eliminated in the first round.



Schroedinger's candidate.




> According to Sky News, supporters of Priti Patel, the home secretary, are saying there isa a “strong but not 100% chance” that she will declare herself as a candidate later today.


----------



## not a trot (Jul 11, 2022)

BCBlues said:


> Just under a shilling if you dont mind



2 bob actually.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 11, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> I just find it amusing the every growing list of candidates, most of whom will get eliminated in the first round.


Occasionally you see reference to a totally unknown (in the UK) American as 'One time Presidential candidate', so even running seems to accumulate some kudos. I suspect that is the case here.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 11, 2022)

not a trot said:


> 2 bob actually.


Six groats if you don't mind!


----------



## 2hats (Jul 11, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Schroedinger's candidate.


Perhaps there's only a 300,034 974,000% chance that she will declare her candidature?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)

From the Guardian




> Candidates with fewer than 36 votes likely to be excluded after first round, senior Tory says​A new 1922 Committee executive is being elected today, and its first job, late this afternoon, will be to finalise the arrangements for the parliamentary stage of the Tory leadership contest. That is the part where MPs whittle the candidates down to a shortlist of two.
> 
> But the current committee has already been considering this (the new committee will have the same chair, Sir Graham Brady) and *Bob Blackman,* its joint executive secretary, gave an interview to Sky News this morning setting what is likely to be the process.
> 
> ...


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 11, 2022)

I've now heard of that guy who announced he was a candidate last night when I never had before so obviously it can work as a way of raising your profile. 

However I've now forgotten his name again so the effect is limited.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 11, 2022)

It's all going to end in tears...


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I've now heard of that guy who announced he was a candidate last night when I never had before so obviously it can work as a way of raising your profile.
> 
> However I've now forgotten his name again so the effect is limited.


it's not about raising their profile with you though is it


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 11, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Occasionally you see reference to a totally unknown (in the UK) American as 'One time Presidential candidate', so even running seems to accumulate some kudos. I suspect that is the case here.



It's partly place marking - candidates are jostling for position in the next Cabinet by demonstrating their support within the Parliamentary party or in the case of Jawid and Shapps their lack of support suggesting their time has come and gone. But it's also a political on the right. Only one of Truss, Patel, Braverman and Badenoch can go forward and this is about clarifying the demands and position of their group.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 11, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> It's partly place marking - candidates are jostling for position in the next Cabinet by demonstrating their support within the Parliamentary party or in the case of Jawid and Shapps their lack of support suggesting their time has come and gone. But it's also a political on the right. Only one of Truss, Patel, Braverman and Badenoch can go forward and this is about clarifying the demands and position of their group.



I don't have a vote, but if I did, 'None of the above' would seem appropriate.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 11, 2022)

bimble said:


> If they carry on like this as a party (vote for me because I’m very un-woke I’ll protect the statues and send the refugees to the bottom of the sea etc) they are screwing themselves for the future aren’t they, the old and racist aren’t a great long term strategy.


People having been saying things like this for decades, they are a party in decline, their voters are too old, they will never be in power again. 

How well have those predictions gone?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 11, 2022)

emanymton said:


> People having been saying things like this for decades, they are a party in decline, their voters are too old, they will never be in power again.
> 
> How well have those predictions gone?


The left has several problems.

It’s unable to articulate a version of the future it can sell, at least none that Starmer and the Labour Party are willing to sell - which means that the nostalgia industry continues to tug powerfully at voters.

The media is run by the same people who are in charge and they don’t want change or to mention that big money is an issue.

Lastly the current voting system favours hegemonic broadchurch parties with winner takes all results and that doesn’t work well with the fondness for argument and debate (and yes grudges) that that is endemic in left circles - the tories will work with anyone and climb any greasy pole to get a leg up


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 11, 2022)

emanymton said:


> People having been saying things like this for decades, they are a party in decline, their voters are too old, they will never be in power again.
> 
> How well have those predictions gone?


They're not really gaining any new supporters, but the problem for Labour is that they aren't either. Voter turnout is low. That's the problem with first past the post, where most votes don't feel like they matter.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> It's all going to end in tears...


Ours, probably


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 11, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Ours, probably


Yeah, suspect you're sadly correct.


----------



## A380 (Jul 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I see everyone's been busily leaking shit on their opponents to the tabloids. It's just gonna be six more weeks of this crabs-in-a-bucket shit isn't it?


I bloody hope so.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 11, 2022)

When I mention the media has problems, this from the guardian is a fine example.



> Even Tom Tugendhat, sometimes seen as the most mainstream/centrist/one nation of the candidates in the contest, is calling for tax cuts, backing the Northern Ireland protocol bill and defending deporting asylum seekers to Rwanda - all policies that might loosely be labelled rightwing.




Loosely labelled as right wing BECAUSE THEY ARE RIGHT WING.


----------



## donkyboy (Jul 11, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Occasionally you see reference to a totally unknown (in the UK) American as 'One time Presidential candidate', so even running seems to accumulate some kudos. I suspect that is the case here.



It would look good on CVs and consultancy job interviews

*Can you give an example of an instance where you showed drive and determination or took on a failing project and turned it around?*

"Well I stood for Conservative Party leader elections. I was not successful, but my candidacy helped bring focus on the issues I believed mattered to the British people: honesty, integrity, cutting taxes, cost of living. I also appeared on Sky News with Sophy Ridge and Kay Burley"


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 11, 2022)

Well normal people think it's evil, but evil people think it's common sense. So who do you listen to.


----------



## chilango (Jul 11, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> It's all going to end in tears...


I hope so.


----------



## A380 (Jul 11, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> It would look good on CVs and consultancy job interviews
> 
> *Can you give an example of an instance where you showed drive and determination or took on a failing project and turned it around?*
> 
> "Well I stood for Conservative Party leader elections. I was not successful, but my candidacy helped bring focus on the issues I believed mattered to the British people: honesty, integrity, cutting taxes, cost of living. I also appeared on Sky News with Sophy Ridge and Kay Burley"



“We had several great candidates for the penguin guano wheelbarrow operative opening. Unfortunately on this occasion you weren’t successful so it’s back to your important role loading the barrows by hand.”


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 11, 2022)

emanymton said:


> People having been saying things like this for decades, they are a party in decline, their voters are too old, they will never be in power again.
> 
> How well have those predictions gone?


I absolutely agree with you regarding people trying to use demographics to prove a party's decline.

But the increasingly social liberal direction of society does have an impact on conservative politics. Banging on about 'wokeism' is no doubt very popular with Troy activists and members but it can turn plenty of voters off. 
Like the UK Conservative Party the Australian Liberal Party is a mix of liberalism and conservatism, but its recent drift in an increasingly conservative direction backfired terribly at this years Federal election with it losing seats to liberal 'teal' independents. 

And even conservatives have been affected by the liberalisation of society. For all the nasty postering about wokeism none of the candidates standing would be willing to re-implement a ban on same sex marriage, they know that such a course of action would be opposed by an overwhelming majorities of voters. Last month you had pride flags been shown everywhere from John Lewis to Travelodge. 
Also (large) capital is supportive of many EDI measures, ten-fifteen years ago gender/race/disability pay gaps and decolonisation were not something really being talked about management, now there are increasingly the norm. 

None of which means that there is not systematic racism, sexism, homophobia in our society. Nor that capital and liberalism are not the institutions that perpetuate such systematic discrimination. And the shit that is coming out of the Tory party on 'anti-wokeism' is harmful and dangerous, and should be resisted. But like on taxation or carbon policies much of this crap is performative, in the UK capital and workers are moving in the opposite direction.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 11, 2022)

__





						archive.ph
					





					archive.ph


----------



## A380 (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## MickiQ (Jul 11, 2022)

When do they start thinning them out? they just seem to be increasing in number at the moment.


----------



## andysays (Jul 11, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> It's all going to end in tears...


I'm hoping it will end in them tearing each other and their party apart...


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 11, 2022)

andysays said:


> I'm hoping it will end in them tearing each other and their party apart...


I'm kind of hoping for a literal knife fight for the leadership rather than a metaphorical one but I suspect now "They've Got Brexit Done" they will probably unite behind the new leader. Surely even most Tory MP's whilst they no doubt support the general principle of tax cuts realise that the guff coming out of the current crop about tax cuts (someone was saying £330Bn on the news at lunch time but that is just plain daft) is just that guff for the forseeable.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> When do they start thinning them out? they just seem to be increasing in number at the moment.


The expectation is that the thinning out will be from this Wednesday till the Thursday the week after, although I dont think the timetable is officially confirmed yet.

edited to add - we should find out the timetable officially today.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 11, 2022)

Any Chance the 1922 commitee could come up with a "hunger games" type mechanism for choosing their next leader? Dump them all in the falklands with a shipping container full of weapons and screen it on live tv.


----------



## andysays (Jul 11, 2022)

I think the 1922 Committee are meeting this afternoon to decide exactly what the rules and timetable will be.

Committee member Bob Blackwell has said they expect to have narrowed it down to two contenders by next Thursday, according to the BBC website.


----------



## Sue (Jul 11, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Any Chance the 1922 commitee could come up with a "hunger games" type mechanism for choosing their next leader? Dump them all in the falklands with a shipping container full of weapons and screen it on live tv.


I'd pay good money to see that tbf.


----------



## Knotted (Jul 11, 2022)

emanymton said:


> People having been saying things like this for decades, they are a party in decline, their voters are too old, they will never be in power again.
> 
> How well have those predictions gone?



The last two elections were outliers because they rallied around brexit passions and before that they could only win against a delipidated Labour Party at the fag end of the New Labour years. As renters get older the tory property owning base gets thinner and the lack of ideas reflects a lack of a willingness to rebuild a younger base.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 11, 2022)

Knotted said:


> The last two elections were outliers because they rallied around brexit passions and before that they could only win against a delipidated Labour Party at the fag end of the New Labour years. As renters get older the tory property owning base gets thinner and the lack of ideas reflects a lack of a willingness to rebuild a younger base.



But then equally the Labour party are a bunch of pointless centrists with no ideas at all beyond sticking an inch to the left of the Tories and not rocking the boat, who've totally blown their presence in Scotland and who are actively fucking off what led to their own strong vote amongst younger people. 

And yet ultimately neither of them are going anywhere.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## RedRedRose (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2022)

The39thStep said:


>



"Wow, thats one conservative member per British death from Covid" is quite the line.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 11, 2022)

I've just googled the Tory party membership which currently stands at about 200,000 apparently membership fee is £25 but under £15 for ex-Forces. It is however £5 for under 26's  so I suspect membership tends to be towards the older range
I have just asked my 20 year old if she would consider that a bargain.
She didn't give me a direct answer but I will take "Sod Off Dad" as probably a negative.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 11, 2022)

Tax cuts.

If my income drops, I cannot do things I used to, because I don't have the money.

Tax cuts cut government income, so already woeful services get worse.

Tax people like Amazon properly rather than cut taxes and services.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 11, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




Another one putting their finger right on the pulse of what people are really concerned about right now. The right to be a cunt on the internet.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 11, 2022)

These people are fucking idiots. They will wreck what is left of the economy with further cuts. Fuck selfish zealots like this cavalcade of shite


----------



## andysays (Jul 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Another one putting their finger right on the pulse of what people are really concerned about right now. *The right to be a cunt on the internet.*



Must have been reading Urban...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2022)

2hats said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I hope he goes for it, so we can enjoy him being humiliated.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I hope he goes for it, so we can enjoy him being humiliated.


He better hurry up or he'll be out of the race before he's in it.


----------



## JimW (Jul 11, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> These people are fucking idiots. They will wreck what is left of the economy with further cuts. Fuck selfish zealots like this cavalcade of shite


It is utterly deranged, a juncture where's there's about ten thousand things that need state intervention but they think cutting income from those coining it already in record profit businesses is what's needed.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Another one putting their finger right on the pulse of what people are really concerned about right now. The right to be a cunt on the internet.


Badenoch is well known for hideous culture wars rhetoric so this sort of thing was exactly what was expected from them, expected to be part of their central message. As opposed to some of the other candidates who are only making noises about that stuff in oder to deflect criticism that they are too woke, and as part of attempts to hoover up support from culture wars scum side of the party.


----------



## RedRedRose (Jul 11, 2022)

Good analysis from Peter Osborne explaining the priorities of Johnson and the Tories.


----------



## A380 (Jul 11, 2022)

andysays said:


> I think the 1922 Committee are meeting this afternoon to decide exactly what the rules and timetable will be.
> 
> Committee member Bob Blackwell has said they expect to have narrowed it down to two contenders by next Thursday, according to the BBC website.



‘Two MPs enter. ONE MP leaves!!’


----------



## Smangus (Jul 11, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> I've just googled the Tory party membership which currently stands at about 200,000 apparently membership fee is £25 but under £15 for ex-Forces. It is however £5 for under 26's and over so I suspect membership tends to be towards the older range
> I have just asked my 20 year old if she would consider that a bargain.
> She didn't give me a direct answer but I will take "Sod Off Dad" as probably a negative.


Encouraging Urban75 entryism ?


----------



## Smangus (Jul 11, 2022)

It's  battle of the rabid loons, trying to appeal to the membership. Cunts gotta cunt.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jul 11, 2022)

I’ve been reading the wiki entry on the contest. It won’t be resolved till early September 

Hope I’m wrong.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 11, 2022)

I hope this line of questioning is sustained and applied to all the vermin candidates, like picking at a scab.

Slimy fucker...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2022)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I’ve been reading the wiki entry on the contest. It won’t be resolved till early September
> 
> Hope I’m wrong.



They plan to have it down to the short-list of two before parliament goes into recess next week.

Then it's out to the party members, with the suggestion it will be settled well before parliament returns on 5th Sept.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 11, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> Good analysis from Peter Osborne explaining the priorities of Johnson and the Tories.



Really? Brown, Cameron and May did not lie? They Tory party has not had links with super rich individuals prior to ~2019?
It is pretty naive (or dishonest) suff from Oborne. A fantasy of once honourable politics.

The lies about austerity were every bit as harmful as anything Johnson has come out with (if not more so).

EDIT: If only we could go back to the coalition government and its honourable behaviour


----------



## Supine (Jul 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I hope this line of questioning is sustained and applied to all the vermin candidates, like picking at a scab.
> 
> Slimy fucker...
> 
> View attachment 331739



On Sunday morning he was being specific that he was tax located in US and Singapore at various points. It sounded to me like he wasn’t totally happy with the line of questioning. Hopefully some financial journalists are digging deep at the moment.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 11, 2022)

Supine said:


> On Sunday morning he was being specific that he was tax located in US and Singapore at various points. It sounded to me like he wasn’t totally happy with the line of questioning. Hopefully some financial journalists are digging deep at the moment.


The stash will all be in the BVI/Cayman Islands or somewhere similar.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 11, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Really? Brown, Cameron and May did not lie? They Tory party has not had links with super rich individuals prior to ~2019?
> It is pretty naive (or dishonest) suff from Oborne. A fantasy of once honourable politics.
> 
> The lies about austerity were every bit as harmful as anything Johnson has come out with (if not more so).



Precisely. This idea that a nation has been laid low by a populist demagogue - and the suggestion that most problems can be traced to that one person and that their removal solves the problems - is both profoundly misleading and disorientating. 

That line of argument might make sense to the old establishment seeking to reestablish its legitimacy and position (although those on here lapping up the rambling of a washed up Tory is less easy to understand) . But, the old order will soon find out that most people do not share their obsession with Johnson as cause rather than symptom. As winter sets in, as fuel bills rise and recession kicks in, todays tax cutters and warriors on woke will feel the popular chill again soon enough.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2022)

I know Eddie, and I am 100% sure he's taking the piss here.


----------



## Knotted (Jul 11, 2022)

2hats said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The whole concept of a candidate who is standing as pro-someone else is absolutely remarkable.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 11, 2022)

I reckon the tory mission is now just one of handing Keir Starmer the biggest pile of flaming dog shit they possibly can.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2022)

Knotted said:


> The whole concept of a candidate who is standing as pro-someone else is absolutely remarkable.



He Has Left Us Alone but Shafts of Light Sometimes Grace the Corner of Our Rooms


----------



## andysays (Jul 11, 2022)

Knotted said:


> The whole concept of a candidate who is standing as pro-someone else is absolutely remarkable.



Javid seems to be taking the opposite tack, positioning himself as the candidate for change

Tories face 'electoral oblivion' if they do not change, Javid says



> "Over the last couple of years, our reputation on most values and policies has slid away," he says. "Too many people now believe that Labour are fit to govern. Some of them say that Labour are more competent and even more likely to cut taxes."
> 
> Javid adds that the political situation was starting to "feel very familiar", referring to the Tory party's defeat in 1997, saying: "The way things were going recently, I feared our party was on a trajectory to the same electoral oblivion once again."


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 11, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> He Has Left Us Alone but Shafts of Light Sometimes Grace the Corner of Our Rooms


This contest is Born into Trouble as the Sparks Fly Upwards


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I reckon the tory mission is now just one of handing Keir Starmer the biggest pile of flaming dog shit they possibly can.


And He will still fuck it up


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 11, 2022)

andysays said:


> Javid seems to be taking the opposite tack, positioning himself as the candidate for change
> 
> Tories face 'electoral oblivion' if they do not change, Javid says


They're totally obsessed with fucking tax cuts at the moment aren't they?


----------



## stavros (Jul 11, 2022)

andysays said:


> Javid seems to be taking the opposite tack, positioning himself as the candidate for change


That might've held water had he stayed out of cabinet until last year, having resigned as Chancellor in early 2020 due to Cummings being a cunt. On an exclusively Tory scale he'd have looked morally principled.


----------



## bimble (Jul 11, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> He Has Left Us Alone but Shafts of Light Sometimes Grace the Corner of Our Rooms


I couldn’t believe you actually wrote that cos it’s really good,  so yeah now I’m listening to the album


----------



## agricola (Jul 11, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Really? Brown, Cameron and May did not lie? They Tory party has not had links with super rich individuals prior to ~2019?
> It is pretty naive (or dishonest) suff from Oborne. A fantasy of once honourable politics.
> 
> The lies about austerity were every bit as harmful as anything Johnson has come out with (if not more so).
> ...



TBF Oborne said "lying all the time", not that Brown, Cameron and May never lied.  Johnson's lies are different - they are frequent, usually are really obvious and he doesn't care if they are proved to be lies even to his face.

Likewise, and I have difficulty just typing this, even Cameron's government was more honourable than this one.  It was incompetent, corrupted, dishonest and acted with very little honour but it was better than this one which is truly horrifying.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 11, 2022)

Brown, Cameron, Clegg and May lied all the time they all presented austerity as political necessity rather than as a choice and so justified and enacted far more damage to society than the Johnson government has achieved in its time.

I'll agree that Johnson's lies are more blatant but they are also far less damaging.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2022)

bimble said:


> I couldn’t believe you actually wrote that cos it’s really good,  so yeah now I’m listening to the album


Thanks, bimble , compliments are few and far between these days. Makes all the difference.


----------



## bimble (Jul 11, 2022)

Has liz truss done a video yet?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2022)

Reasonable amusing thread on the contenders logos


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## campanula (Jul 11, 2022)

The wisdom of my 11 year old grand-daughter ' that Javid fella looks like a malteser'.


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)

ConservativeHome survey of members:


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 11, 2022)

bimble said:


> Has liz truss done a video yet?



Is she one of the S&M candidates? Yeah, several probably.


----------



## bimble (Jul 11, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> Is she one of the S&M candidates? Yeah, several probably.


I’d like it if even one of them was the one with the boots on and not the one paying for fake retribution but if anyone that’s probably rees mogg, just to spoil it all cos the world is like that.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2022)

Johnson has said he'll not endorse any of the candidates as he doesn't want to damage their chances.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 11, 2022)

What awful images you conjure bimble


----------



## bimble (Jul 11, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> What awful images you conjure bimble


Apologies.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> They're totally obsessed with fucking tax cuts at the moment aren't they?


A good way of making sure that a subsequent government starts out having to make very unpopular choices, at least to the minds of these idiot Tories...


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 11, 2022)

So the 1922 committee has decided 20 MPs needed for candidates tomorrow and then need 10 more (30) to proceed past the 1st round on Wednesday. 

Shapps, Jawid, that bloke nobody has heard of, Braverman and others will be out in 36 hours.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 11, 2022)

Have we had this gem yet?


----------



## ska invita (Jul 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Have we had this gem yet?


Yes, with every single fucking Tory MP ever


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> So the 1922 committee has decided 20 MPs needed for candidates tomorrow and then need 10 more (30) to proceed past the 1st round on Wednesday.
> 
> Shapps, Jawid, that bloke nobody has heard of, Braverman and others will be out in 36 hours.


Perhaps to avoid doing three party any more harm, I'd be very interested in where the numbers go as Wednesday approaches.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 11, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Johnson has said he'll not endorse any of the candidates as he doesn't want to damage their chances.



About the first honest thing he's said.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Have we had this gem yet?



I don't think so tbh but it's definitely one of the classics alongside tax cuts and stopping illegal migration.


----------



## Supine (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2022)




----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 11, 2022)

358 Tory MPs is potentially 17 contenders.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2022)

bimble said:


> I couldn’t believe you actually wrote that cos it’s really good,  so yeah now I’m listening to the album


The album cover is a work of art .I love the track 13 Angels Standing Guard 'Round The Side Of Your Bed


----------



## Sue (Jul 11, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Shapps, Jawid, *that bloke nobody has heard of,* Braverman and others will be out in 36 hours.


You're not really narrowing things down tbh.


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 11, 2022)

A380 said:


> View attachment 331701


Has she not learned anything from U75 that you must be pointing to the hole and scowling?


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 11, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> They're totally obsessed with fucking tax cuts at the moment aren't they?


The Thatcherite mentality is obsessed with cutting tax so it's no surprise. All that north sea oil revenue we spent on tax cuts in the 1980s that could have been invested in a sovereign wealth fund like Norway, sigh.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Have we had this gem yet?



Fucking arsehole


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> You're not really narrowing things down tbh.



Probably this one:









						Who is Tory leadership candidate Rehman Chishti?
					

MP is far from a household name, even in the constituency of Gillingham and Rainham, which he has represented since 2010




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 11, 2022)

Supine said:


>



I find ‘ tug end’ amusing because my brain is still 14 years old.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 11, 2022)

Supine said:


>




Fake, I'm sorry to say.


----------



## donkyboy (Jul 11, 2022)

I must say, really liking this Tory leadership race. Turning out to be a great laugh.


----------



## Supine (Jul 11, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Fake, I'm sorry to say.



That’s a shame. He is a tit though, so the name has stuck for me at least


----------



## Cerv (Jul 11, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Brown, Cameron, Clegg and May lied all the time they all presented austerity as political necessity rather than as a choice and so justified and enacted far more damage to society than the Johnson government has achieved in its time.
> 
> I'll agree that Johnson's lies are more blatant but they are also far less damaging.



Brown never. the Brown / Darling response to the 08 financial crisis was economic stimulus not austerity.

it was only after the lost general election and under Miliband's weak leadership that the Labour position became acceptance of the "necessity" of austerity.

but you could certainly find other examples of him lying. he was a politician after all.


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 11, 2022)

There's going to be a lot of Blue on Blue collateral damage over the next couple of months and many deep seated grievances will fester 😆


----------



## donkyboy (Jul 11, 2022)

Zero support for Rehman


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 11, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> Zero support for Rehman



Maybe he thought he'd get 48.5% by accident?


----------



## donkyboy (Jul 12, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Maybe he thought he'd get 48.5% by accident?



I'd give him a sympathy vote if I were an MP. Once eliminated, then get down to real business.


----------



## Humberto (Jul 12, 2022)

So apart from profiting from and causing the 2008 economic collapse (Sunak), and being chancellor and worth hundreds of millions of pounds, the cunt now wants to govern us and impose austerity? AND cut taxes. Fuck.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 12, 2022)

That B'Stard wasn't a real person?


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## Ming (Jul 12, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>



Trolling. Like that MP giving the finger to protesters outside number 10. Or Cameron naming Elton Rifles as a desert Island disc. Tories these days aren’t even trying to hide their venal selves as they know enough fools will give them their  vote and mandate. So these days it’s ‘You don’t like us? We don’t care.’. Millwall basically.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 12, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>




He does look a bit like Savile in that


----------



## Humberto (Jul 12, 2022)

They will fuck your life/hopes/prospects up though. That's what they are there to do.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 12, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> He Has Left Us Alone but Shafts of Light Sometimes Grace the Corner of Our Rooms


New Mogwai album title

Eta. Bollocks. It's already an album title. 😭


----------



## Raheem (Jul 12, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>



Not sure it's a huge secret, but if she can convince them she's Alan B'stard, she doesn't need anyone to tell her anything, cos she wins hands down.


----------



## bcuster (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

i think anyone whose name is not completely easy to say or spell hasn't got a chance, the party membership will never vote for someone they can't effortlessly pronounce. (still think it'll be liz truss)


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2022)

Nominations close at 6pm today. Remember that in the past MPs have often received fewer nominations than the number of colleagues who have professed public support.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

oh god here it is the liz truss video. Channelling thatcher as expected. 








						Liz For Leader - Trusted to Deliver
					

Liz Truss will lead, deliver and make the tough decisions - with a clear vision for the future, to drive change and get things done.




					lizforleader.co.uk


----------



## andysays (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> i think anyone whose name is not completely easy to say or spell hasn't got a chance, the party membership will never vote for someone they can't effortlessly pronounce. (still think it'll be liz truss)



With a name like that she can rely on plenty of support.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 12, 2022)

Tories could never do what Labour MPs did though, and lend a late nomination to someone they didn't really favour because they thought that particular strand of politics should be represented in the debate? 

Could they?


----------



## maomao (Jul 12, 2022)

andysays said:


> With a name like that she can rely on plenty of support.


We'll be trussed and stuffed though.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 12, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> Zero support for Rehman



Man is an absolute tool. I saw him being interviewed by Ben Brown on BBC News yesterday and he's got no chance (and no supporters). It's shameless posturing for some sort of ministerial role.


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Tories could never do what Labour MPs did though, and lend a late nomination to someone they didn't really favour because they thought that particular strand of politics should be represented in the debate?
> 
> Could they?


What like voting for Rory Stewart so he could be the one attacking Johnson in the debate?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## marty21 (Jul 12, 2022)

Just heard on the radio that JRM & Nadine Dorris are not running and have pledged to support Liz Truss . So we won't see a Nadine campaign 😰 #GoNads


----------



## petee (Jul 12, 2022)

bcuster said:


>




i sympathize with shapps on that one.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 12, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Just heard on the radio that JRM & Nadine Dorris are not running and have pledged to support Liz Truss . So we won't see a Nadine campaign 😰 #GoNads


Displaying an uncharacteristic level of self-awareness there #gonenads


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 12, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Just heard on the radio that JRM & Nadine Dorris are not running and have pledged to support Liz Truss .



What has Truss done to deserve that?


----------



## marty21 (Jul 12, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> What has Truss done to deserve that?


I know!


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> What has Truss done to deserve that?


They’re opening up new porkies markets


----------



## marty21 (Jul 12, 2022)

Labour trolling the Tories by calling for a VONC


----------



## JimW (Jul 12, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Just heard on the radio that JRM & Nadine Dorris are not running and have pledged to support Liz Truss . So we won't see a Nadine campaign 😰 #GoNads


Funny, usually a truss that supports the gonads.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

Wonder what it feels like to be a tory party member and watch this parade of laughable crap. I hope it feels a bit embarrassing at least? Or like looking at a menu of shit sandwiches.

i mean..


----------



## Sue (Jul 12, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Tugendhat is ex-Army so he'd surely be able to take the others out..?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 12, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Labour trolling the Tories by calling for a VONC



Over a week too late. The aim of the VONC should have been to _save Johnson _


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 12, 2022)

Sue said:


> Tugendhat is ex-Army so he'd surely be able to take the others out..?


And Mordaunt is a naval reservist... 

As for what the tory party members think - although I don't know any personally I wouldn't be astounded to learn that a great number have left in disgust in the last few years, particularly after Johnson's cull, leaving an ever more rabid right wing rump behind.


----------



## philosophical (Jul 12, 2022)

Standards something something.









						Bafflement over Tory MP's admission she hacked Harriet Harman's website
					

Former hacktivists say action by Kemi Badenoch breaches Computer Misuse Act and question potential for prosecution or reform




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2022)

In all but one of the Tory leadership elections this century the members have backed the candidate who got most votes amongst MPs, usually by a similar proportion.


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 12, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Just heard on the radio that JRM & Nadine Dorris are not running and have pledged to support Liz Truss . So we won't see a Nadine campaign 😰 #GoNads


2 more reasons to hate Truss, when none were actually needed.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 12, 2022)

Shapps is out. God willing Braverman will also be out by close of play today.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 12, 2022)

petee said:


> i sympathize with shapps on that one.


you weren't in the underwear section were you, with a group of priests?


----------



## emanymton (Jul 12, 2022)

I'm going to be stupid and make a prediction. 

Truss will win it.


----------



## killer b (Jul 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Shapps is out. God willing Braverman will also be out by close of play today.


Braverman is currently polling fourth with the members, I wouldn't be dropping out if I were her


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm going to be stupid and make a prediction.
> 
> Truss will win it.


Just had a look and i 1st predicted this (truss to be the next PM) back in November, and haven't wavered since. So with a bit of luck and my track record that means it can't come true.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> Just had a look and i predicted this (truss to be the next PM) back in November, and haven't wavered since. So with a bit of luck and my track record that means it can't come true.


I have a fiver on her


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Shapps is out. God willing Braverman will also be out by close of play today.


Only yesterday he was pledging to fight dragons  sorry I meant to take on the union barons


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 12, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>





None so eager as a convert


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

i don't think any of them actually believe in it anymore, especially not the ridiculous man whose ridiculous job is now to seek for the benefits of it and who hasn't yet found any so he keeps asking people to write to him  with suggestions via the daily mail.
  The only mystery is why they think the voters still do ( believe in it or care about voting for a "brexiteer" six years later).


----------



## Wilf (Jul 12, 2022)

Fuck me, don't think I've ever heard tugen-thingy speak before. Makes kieth sound like a coked up party animal.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 12, 2022)

Incidentally, Labour have missed their moment with this vonc. Was never going to pass, but it's an irrelevance now as the Tories have 'moved on'.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 12, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Incidentally, Labour have missed their moment with this vonc. Was never going to pass, but it's an irrelevance now as the Tories have 'moved on'.



It's just to give them a zinger at the next PMQs or whatever. Oh they all turned on him last week but then this week they vote to keep him haha.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 12, 2022)

Be interesting if johnson himself has to defend the voice.

Edit: feckin autocorrect, *vonc*.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## A380 (Jul 12, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> And Mordaunt is a naval reservist...
> …


 Apparently her husband is a prominent frogman whilst her child carries a gun but isn’t currently serving in HM forces…


----------



## not a trot (Jul 12, 2022)

Bookies won't take my bet on the contest. All I wanted was the odds on any cunt winning.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 12, 2022)

not a trot said:


> Bookies won't take my bet on the contest. All I wanted was the odds on any cunt winning.


Suella Bravercunt, Tom Tugencunt...


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

Someones predictions that the Guardian took note of earlier today:

They are going to update their predictions as things move along, so I'll probably keep posting them as this happens.


----------



## Smangus (Jul 12, 2022)

Dream team, Truss, Mogg and GoNads 

An amoeba of the deluded.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2022)

elbows said:


> Someones predictions that the Guardian took note of earlier today:
> 
> They are going to update their predictions as things move along, so I'll probably keep posting them as this happens.



tbh out of those two i wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if mordaunt won.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 12, 2022)

So, I’ve just been chatting with a member of the House of Lords (!). He reckons it will come down to Sunak vs Truss, with Truss winning. 

Time will tell I guess.


----------



## sojourner (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> Just had a look and i 1st predicted this (truss to be the next PM) back in November, and haven't wavered since. So with a bit of luck and my track record that means it can't come true.


My money's been on her for ages too.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2022)

I don’t see Truss wining amongst MPs, and I don’t think members will leapfrog her over the MP’s favourite. That has only happened once with IDS vs Clarke and in that case the MPs vote was extremely close, which I don’t think it will be this time.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 12, 2022)

I'm very much of the view that if Mordaunt gets to the final two, she'll win, even against Truss - I don't think the members like Sunak, and will vote for almost anyone but him.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Jul 12, 2022)

I can't predict who the m.p.'s will vote for, but I reckon that the Tory rank and file don't like taxes very much. If Sunak were to be standing against anyone else who was white then their innate prejudices will make them vote against him, using his record on taxes as the excuse. If there were two non-white candidates then who knows? Or am I being unfair on members of the Tory party?


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

Patel rules herself out.  Such a shame.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 12, 2022)

Until the story about Sunak's wife's tax arrangements, he was firmly in the lead amongst party members in polling by Conservation Home, which tends to be fairly accurate.


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I don’t see Truss wining amongst MPs, and I don’t think members will leapfrog her over the MP’s favourite. That has only happened once with IDS vs Clarke and in that case the MPs vote was extremely close, which I don’t think it will be this time.


The mp’s vote is 100% irrelevant when it comes to the members’ vote.  IDS stood against Clarke and portaloo, splitting the votes almost equally. The members then went 2-1 eurosceptic, as they nearly always had.  The exception was Cameron, possibly cos they were sick of losing.


----------



## contadino (Jul 12, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> I can't predict who the m.p.'s will vote for, but I reckon that the Tory rank and file don't like taxes very much. If Sunak were to be standing against anyone else who was white then their innate prejudices will make them vote against him, using his record on taxes as the excuse. If there were two non-white candidates then who knows? Or am I being unfair on members of the Tory party?


I'm not sure you can be unfair to a Tory. They deserve any shit you can lay on them.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> I can't predict who the m.p.'s will vote for, but I reckon that the Tory rank and file don't like taxes very much. If Sunak were to be standing against anyone else who was white then their innate prejudices will make them vote against him, using his record on taxes as the excuse. If there were two non-white candidates then who knows? Or am I being unfair on members of the Tory party?



I think the membership would happily vote for Badenoch over Hunt for example, so I really think issues trump race. If they vote against Sunak it won’t be because he’s Asian, but because of his record as chancellor and his electoral chances against Starmer.

Tory members are by and large the people who shove leaflets through doors for local councillors, they’re electorally engaged and aren’t the same group as those red-faced people who sit at home posting in the DailyMail comments section.


----------



## killer b (Jul 12, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> If they vote against Sunak it won’t be because he’s Asian, but because of his record as chancellor and his electoral chances against Starmer.


the idea that the membership will vote based on the candidate's electoral chances is pretty funny


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

Doesn’t make much sense does it, the idea that sunak looses support amongst members for the revelation that his family pays as little tax as legally possible. I’m not convinced they really see that as a morally bad thing why would they.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2022)

belboid said:


> The mp’s vote is 100% irrelevant when it comes to the members’ vote.  IDS stood against Clarke and portaloo, splitting the votes almost equally. The members then went 2-1 eurosceptic, as they nearly always had.  The exception was Cameron, possibly cos they were sick of losing.



I would say it's very relevant, and explains why Cameron trounced the more Eurosceptic Davis.

In the final MP's round Cameron got 90 and Davis got 57, members mimicked this with 66% to Cameron and 34% to Davis.

Again in 2019 Johnson got 160 to Hunt's 77, and members fell in line with 66% to Johnson and 34% to Hunt.

Not a big sample size but I reckon if there's a similar margin in the last two this time, members will broadly follow it.

It gets more complicated if it's a close result like 2001 but I don't think it will be.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> the idea that the membership will vote based on the candidate's electoral chances is pretty funny



No, I think it's just members' views of electoral chances differ from yours.


----------



## maomao (Jul 12, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Tory members are by and large the people who shove leaflets through doors for local councillors,


Aren't a lot of Tory party members in the party just for the cheap beer at Conservative clubs? Or does that work differently?


----------



## maomao (Jul 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> the idea that the membership will vote based on the candidate's electoral chances is pretty funny


It's what the Labour membership were persuaded to do.


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I would say it's very relevant, and explains why Cameron trounced the more Eurosceptic Davis.
> 
> In the final MP's round Cameron got 90 and Davis got 57, members mimicked this with 66% to Cameron and 34% to Davis.
> 
> ...


Naah, other factors involved.  And the fact that the mps votes are likely to be all over the shop makes it even less likely the members vote will replicate the mps’


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2022)

maomao said:


> Aren't a lot of Tory party members in the party just for the cheap beer at Conservative clubs? Or does that work differently?



I think club members get associate membership of the party, which doesn't confer voting rights unless they pay extra for full membership. Those that do are likely to be far more interested in a candidate's brexit/anti-wokeness/tax cutting credentials etc than the colour of their skin, hard as it may be to believe, although of course this doesn't mean that they can't also be racist.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

She’s quite frightening. As in more evil less stupid. There are people who would get a real kick out of voting for a black woman who campaigns on an anti identity politics anti woke platform, And she’s getting lots of supportive press.








						Why I should become prime minister | The Spectator
					

'I'm an engineer, a systems thinker, a problem solver'




					www.spectator.co.uk


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

I see Patel has formally announced that she isnt standing.


----------



## killer b (Jul 12, 2022)

maomao said:


> It's what the Labour membership were persuaded to do.


at a different point in the electoral cycle though - what a membership can be persuaded into voting for after being thrashed in a general election is quite different to what a party sitting on an 80 seat majority can be persuaded to do.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 12, 2022)

Looks like sunak will make it to the members vote. His opponent is likely to be whoever the right/brexity part of the parliamentary party unite behind. The members will then vote for the candiate who is most right wing.  Truss or mordant seem to be the frontrunners  - but Badenoch could be the one to watch here. ERG Head honcho Steve baker and Gove  have both backed her. Shes ruthless, smart and a total fucking loon. MAy have a better chance of beating  starmer in a GE that the others. Fear her.


----------



## killer b (Jul 12, 2022)

fwiw Opinium have done a poll of tory members and have Sunak in the lead against his two most likely rivals (truss & mordant) - strikingly different from the Conservative Home panel


----------



## existentialist (Jul 12, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Looks like sunak will make it to the members vote. His opponent is likely to be whoever the right/brexity part of the parliamentary party unite behind. The members will then vote for the candiate who is most right wing.  Truss or mordant seem to be the frontrunners  - but Badenoch could be the one to watch here. ERG Head honcho Steve baker and Gove  have both backed her. Shes ruthless, smart and a total fucking loon. MAy have a better chance of beating  starmer in a GE that the others. Fear her.


I wonder whether the Tory party is really ready for someone of colour - and a WOMAN - as leader, just yet. Especially the loony right wing fringe.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 12, 2022)

Gendered toilets and ice cream are clearly the most pressing topics in the minds of the tory faithful: ‘Ben & Jerry’s tendencies’ of woke businesses attacked by Kemi Badenoch - live updates


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 12, 2022)

Kemi Badenoch, the Tory leadership candidate, has hit out at Ben & Jerry’s owner Unilever in an attack on companies that focus on “social justice” at the expense of profits.

Wow just wow let's just take a minute and think about that shall we?


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

existentialist said:


> I wonder whether the Tory party is really ready for someone of colour - and a WOMAN - as leader, just yet. Especially the loony right wing fringe.


Yes they are.  They love to show how progressive they are.


----------



## petee (Jul 12, 2022)

two sheds said:


> you weren't in the underwear section were you, with a group of priests?


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

Hunt has leapt ahead of Badenoch and Zahawi to get into the actual ballot (SCC to the guardian).  Looks suspiciously like the very far right making sure the merely right take each out and deliver a straight Truss/Sunak fight.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> She’s quite frightening. As in more evil less stupid. There are people who would get a real kick out of voting for a black woman who campaigns on an anti identity politics anti woke platform, And she’s getting lots of supportive press.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For a laugh I took part in the telegraph poll on who you'd want to be the next leader. I was surprised to see she was out in front ahead of Sunak.


----------



## chilango (Jul 12, 2022)

Badenoch is very interesting in a terrifying way. I can't see her winning, but she scares me the most.


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

Yay! Braverman claims she has the numbers now


----------



## teqniq (Jul 12, 2022)

Frankly I hold all of them in varying degrees of complete contempt and loathing. None of them are who we really need to be in charge at this time and yet here we are.


----------



## stdP (Jul 12, 2022)

existentialist said:


> I wonder whether the Tory party is really ready for someone of colour - and a WOMAN - as leader, just yet. Especially the loony right wing fringe.



Personally I agree with platinumsage's take that for a great many Tories, the idealogical issues really do trump things like race and gender. I know at least two true blues who would have no problem voting for a black woman, because she's the _right kind_ of black woman. This seems unchanged since the Thatcher days.

Whether this extends to the party as a whole and their suitability for leadership remains to be seen.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 12, 2022)

petee said:


>


You're familiar with Father Ted, I'm assuming


----------



## Smangus (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> She’s quite frightening. As in more evil less stupid. There are people who would get a real kick out of voting for a black woman who campaigns on an anti identity politics anti woke platform, And she’s getting lots of supportive press.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The hypocrisy displayed in that article is breathtaking.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

existentialist said:


> I wonder whether the Tory party is really ready for someone of colour - and a WOMAN - as leader, just yet. Especially the loony right wing fringe.


Have you seen what she actually says ? She says vote for me if you’re fed up of being called a racist sexist old bastard, I hate all that too, ignore the woke snowflakes who are bringing this great country down etc.
Those people will love her I think. She’s offering them absolution of a kind .


----------



## maomao (Jul 12, 2022)

It's the traditionalists that might not swallow a black or brown leader. The loony right wingers are well up for it.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> Have you seen what she actually says ? She says vote for me if you’re fed up of being called a racist sexist old bastard, I hate all that too, ignore the woke snowflakes who are bringing this great country down etc.
> Those people will love her I think. She’s offering them absolution of a kind .


It would appear that there's a fair amount of appealing to the lowest common denominator going on:


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

belboid said:


> Yay! Braverman claims she has the numbers now


And broke the rules in doing so.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

Michael Gove says he's team Kemi. So is The Spectator & the Express. 
Still dont think she will win this but she won't go away either.


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

teqniq said:


> It would appear that there's a fair amount of appealing to the lowest common denominator going on:


I heard earlier that Rees-Mogg allegedly called Sunak a socialist too.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 12, 2022)

elbows said:


> I heard earlier that Rees-Mogg allegedly called Sunak a socialist too.


As if.


----------



## maomao (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> Michael Gove says he's team Kemi. So is The Spectator & the Express.
> Still dont think she will win this but she won't go away either.


Truss's home secretary. We'll be begging to have Johnson and Patel back.


----------



## stavros (Jul 12, 2022)

elbows said:


> I see Patel has formally announced that she isnt standing.


I remember seeing a Tory member poll a few weeks ago, on HIGNFY I think, showing she was by far the least popular member of the cabinet with them. Whether whoever wins gives her a job remains to be seen.


----------



## agricola (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> Michael Gove says he's team Kemi. So is The Spectator & the Express.
> Still dont think she will win this but she won't go away either.



if it ends up as her vs Sunak I think she might; all of the important Johnson backers (so donors and media types rather than JRM and Dorries) will pile on in and insinuate that they'll pull their money out if Sunak wins


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

Least surprising news so far:


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

agricola said:


> if it ends up as her vs Sunak I think she might; all of the important Johnson backers (so donors and media types rather than JRM and Dorries) will pile on in and insinuate that they'll pull their money out if Sunak wins


because of her small state cut everything to the bone thing do you mean?


----------



## A380 (Jul 12, 2022)

Conservative Home poll today...


----------



## chilango (Jul 12, 2022)

Badenoch will be able, and urged, to unleash wave after wave of culture war wedge issues (to distract from the slash and burn) and they'll delight in the "You can't say it's racist or sexist, she's a black woman! Ha! You're the real racist" they can wheel out in their defence.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## manji (Jul 12, 2022)

teqniq said:


> As if.


National Socialist. He’s well in with the Hindu Fascists.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 12, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Surprised he couldn't get to the 20


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

Eight of them! Bring on the death match


----------



## marty21 (Jul 12, 2022)

belboid said:


> Eight of them! Bring on the death match


A survival course , it'll end with Tom Tug emerging from the jungle with 7 heads in a bag & dropping them on the floor at Tory HQ


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

Pass me a bucket. Although I'm not sure its a great idea to mention convictions at the moment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2022)

elbows said:


> Pass me a bucket. Although I'm not sure its a great idea to mention convictions at the moment.



It should be a criminal offence


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

Not sure if he will manage to reach the 30 votes threshold tomorrow, meaning the hashtag Non-doms4Nadhim may never even get a chance to shine.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 12, 2022)

I'm thinking, based on nothing much, that Tory MPs won't want to let Badenoch get to the members' vote stage. But her being in the running, and gaining some traction with her GB News schtick, is only going to encourage other candidates to follow suit.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 12, 2022)

elbows said:


> I heard earlier that Rees-Mogg allegedly called Sunak a socialist too.


To be fair, in the same interview, he said that Mussolini was a bit 'soft'.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 12, 2022)

elbows said:


> Least surprising news so far:



He did a fantastic no expense spared video  as well


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 12, 2022)

The eight are:

Kemi Badenoch (Saffron Walden)
Suella Braverman (Fareham)
Jeremy Hunt (South West Surrey)
Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North)
Rishi Sunak (Richmond (Yorks))
Liz Truss (South West Norfolk)
Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling)
Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon)


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 12, 2022)

It seems almost like a Republican Party nomination, really.

In the US primaries Republicans are wheeled out before the membership to do the crazy dance, trying to outflank one another from the right on every issue, then governing in a less obviously crazy way (well, until Trump).

The ongoing tedious chasing after a cultural war wraith ("woke"), Braverman's deranged and illegal proposals on ECHR, Rishi, Sajid et al basically telling lies about who they are and where they came from.

Radio 4 this evening seemed to be suggesting (that weird onion-domed alien lookalike Evan Davies is so, well _chummy_ with all the Tories - no surprise for a Friedmanite flat-earther) that it was Rishi v AN Other. So whoever AN Other is I guess gets to consign Rishi to the Michael Heseltine fate.

The ex-army officers aren't doing as well as I thought and Mordaunt being talked up by the lazy buffoon David Davis. We're through the looking glass when this reality-averse clownshoes gets to pose as a sage elder statesman.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 12, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The eight are:
> 
> Kemi Badenoch (Saffron Walden)
> Suella Braverman (Fareham)
> ...


The 'Tory eight', if you will.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> He did a fantastic no expense spared video  as well


well, repurposed one from three years ago.  A very fresh start.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

A380 said:


> View attachment 331948
> 
> Conservative Home poll today...


I am surprised & don't understand why they aren't loving the Truss more.
She's not scoring much higher than "Other(Please name)" and I thought she would be way up the top there. 
Anybody got an explanation, I thought they loved her, it can't have been the pork markets that was ages ago?


----------



## prunus (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> I am surprised & don't understand why they aren't loving the Truss more.
> She's not scoring much higher than "Other(Please name)" and I thought she would be way up the top there.
> Anybody got an explanation, I thought they loved her, it can't have been the pork markets that was ages ago?



Perhaps they’ve noticed she’s a fuckwit?


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> I am surprised & don't understand why they aren't loving the Truss more.
> She's not scoring much higher than "Other(Please name)" and I thought she would be way up the top there.
> Anybody got an explanation, I thought they loved her, it can't have been the pork markets that was ages ago?



Maybe even the Tories realised she's a noisy idiot


----------



## Sue (Jul 12, 2022)

marty21 said:


> A survival course , it'll end with Tom Tug emerging from the jungle with 7 heads in a bag & dropping them on the floor at Tory HQ


🤞 

And then he gets eaten by a lion or something, yes?


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

prunus said:


> Perhaps they’ve noticed she’s a fuckwit?


Looks like it. But when did this dawn on them, gradually maybe during her time as our Foreign Secretary.


----------



## Sue (Jul 12, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The eight are:
> 
> Kemi Badenoch (Saffron Walden)
> Suella Braverman (Fareham)
> ...


The Hateful Eight.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 12, 2022)

Sue said:


> 🤞
> 
> And then he gets eaten by a lion or something, yes?


A lion that looks like Jeremy Corbyn


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 12, 2022)

She should have gone with the slogan In Liz we Truss.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

A 6 months old article about liz’s popularity on ‘conservative home’

Odd.


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

Meanwhile the nutters are finding ways to entertain themselves by frothing at the mouth about dirty tricks. But someone was paying attention to history.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2022)

..


----------



## weltweit (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> I am surprised & don't understand why they aren't loving the Truss more.


Seriously? She has a complete charisma bypass and hasn't shown any intelligence in her last roles.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Seriously? She has a complete charisma bypass and hasn't shown any intelligence in her last roles.


She was most popular most approved of on conservative home every time they surveyed members for over a year though. Up until recently. 








						Our Cabinet League Table. Johnson is back in negative ratings. | Conservative Home
					

The Paterson affair aftermath also plunges the Chief Whip into the red. Meanwhile, Truss celebrates a year at the top.




					conservativehome.com
				



Question is what’s changed. Not the things you’re talking about, those aren’t new.


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

The thing about the dirty tricks Dorries was going on about is that they cant work miracles and get Hunt into the final two. They could only be used to fiddle with the balance of the field in earlier rounds, since if Hunt was struggling to even get to 20, he's not bloody likely to make it to the final two is he, no matter how many votes are lent early on. So if such things are going on then it will be aimed at less directly influencing who gets knocked out, not to achieve a direct Sunak vs Hunt final like Dorries claims.


----------



## contadino (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> She was most popular most approved of on conservative home every time they surveyed members for over a year though. Up until recently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think she's been out-looned.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 12, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The eight are:
> 
> Kemi Badenoch (Saffron Walden)
> Suella Braverman (Fareham)
> ...


How the suffering fuck have we ended up in a place where that’s the best we can muster to lead a fucking country.  Christ almighty.


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> She was most popular most approved of on conservative home every time they surveyed members for over a year though. Up until recently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well cabinet satisfaction ratings arent the same as the question of who you want to be PM. All manner of hideous arsehole options have since been placed in front of them, perhaps capturing the imagination of blue bastards in new ways.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

elbows said:


> Well cabinet satisfaction ratings arent the same as the question of who you want to be PM. All manner of hideous arsehole options have since been placed in front of them, perhaps capturing the imagination of blue bastards in new ways.


Yep. It must be that, why stick with the loon you know when there’s a whole array of shiny new abominations to choose from. Also maybe she wasn’t subtle enough with her obvious ambition to get the big job.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> How the suffering fuck have we ended up in a place where that’s the best we can muster to lead a fucking country.  Christ almighty.


You should be on your knees giving thanks that such thick as pigshit people are standing and not people with any degree of efficiency it's all that stands between us and despotism


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> I am surprised & don't understand why they aren't loving the Truss more.



It's the S&M rumours isn't it?

Same with Gove and why he can't stand. Nobody wants a PM who will only nail other people's genitals to tables and not his own.

Pretty sure that's what I heard.


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> Yep. It must be that, why stick with the loon you know when there’s a whole array of shiny new abominations to choose from.


This is also why Im trying not to take this awful talent contest seriously until most of those options have been eliminated again via the next few rounds.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 12, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> You should be on your knees giving thanks that such thick as pigshit people are standing and not people with any degree of efficiency it's all that stands between us and despotism


While you’re right, I’m not entirely sure if that makes it better or worse


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

I don’t think they’re all ‘thick as pigshit’, that’s false comfort.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> She was most popular most approved of on conservative home every time they surveyed members for over a year though. Up until recently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been thinking this.  Its a bit strange how unpopular she seems to be at the moment with grassroot members.  Perhaps its too close an association with Johnson and his style?

During Johnson's hilarious defenestration I was listening to a lot of radio and they were interviewing a lot of tory party members from the provinces and they were all heartily fed up, really pissed off.  It surprised me because I thought they were mostly Johnson fans but the only people prepared to stand up for Johnson were the obvious non-members _I voted for Boris_ types.

from an outsiders perspective it looks like they've had enough of the circus and perhaps they now see Truss as the continuity loon candidate?   They needed Johnson for Brexit and to beat the very real threat of their worst nightmares which was Corbyn.  They don't need Johnson anymore and they need even less a piss poor tribute act.

She'll probably romp home now.


----------



## killer b (Jul 12, 2022)

while truss has slipped in the Con Home rankings, she did just fine in the Opinium poll


----------



## not a trot (Jul 12, 2022)

Sue said:


> 🤞
> 
> And then he gets eaten by a lion or something, yes?



He'd struggle with a fucking lion bar.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

This is a bit ghoulish. Not who do you reckon will win but who do you want to be the winner out of these 8? 
Avidly watching the gruesome talent show without any preference on outcome is even weirder though.


----------



## killer b (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> This is a bit ghoulish. Not who do you reckon will win but who do you want to be the winner out of these 8?
> Avidly watching the gruesome talent show without any preference on outcome is even weirder though.


I don't think it's ghoulish to be interested in who's going to be the next prime minister of the country you live in is it?


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> I don't think it's ghoulish to be interested in who's going to be the next prime minister of the country you live in is it?


I'm asking if people here have a preferred outcome, out of these 8 contenders (ghoulishness was just about this, my unappetising question).
Not sure what i'd do if i had to step in and choose who gets it out of these.


----------



## killer b (Jul 12, 2022)

Ah sorry, misunderstood. 

I think the general thing is to hope for whoever is likely to be the crappest, and therefore in theory more likely to lose the next general election, but reality has a bad track record on that. So I'll go for Tugenhat, cause he seems the least awful.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> I'm asking if people here have a preferred outcome



The winner spontaneously combusts live during their acceptance speech.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

i hate thinking about my own question and now i'm going to have to live with it 
Crappest, most ridiculous, is probably Braverman, so go her for PM maybe.
great website though. Suella 4 Leader | Get Back on Track


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> I'm asking if people here have a preferred outcome, out of these 8 contenders (ghoulishness was just about this, my unappetising question).
> Not sure what i'd do if i had to step in and choose who gets it out of these.


Other than possibly marty21's suggestion of Tum TuggingHisHat killing the other 7 in a survival game, No not really I don't really want any of them.

It occurs to me that it Badenoch wins and the Tangerine Turd gets back in the WH then their first meeting is going to be comedy gold


----------



## kebabking (Jul 12, 2022)

I think Sunak is toast - if the non-loon section of the party want to avoid a Badenoch/Truss/Braverman PM, then they need to go for Mordaunt. She's the only one who stands a decent of beating any of those three once it goes out to the membership.

Of the eight, I'd prefer Tugendhat, but I see neither him or Hunt getting the membership vote.


----------



## bimble (Jul 12, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Other than possibly marty21's suggestion of Tum TuggingHisHat killing the other 7 in a survival game, No not really I don't really want any of them.
> 
> It occurs to me that it Badenoch wins and the Tangerine Turd gets back in the WH then their first meeting is going to be comedy gold


well of course you don't really want any of them!
I'm offering you a tray of shit sandwiches and you're supposed to try to pick the least worst.

But why would Badenoch & Trump not just run into each others arms delightedly. Because they would. She's a bit like a non-stupid Candace Owens.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 12, 2022)

I wouldn't underestimate the torys chances of getting it disasterously wrong, while they are quite ruthless in knifing their leaders in the back or front even, they have also a history of electing leaders who went on to lose general elections.


----------



## killer b (Jul 12, 2022)

weltweit said:


> I wouldn't underestimate the torys chances of getting it disasterously wrong, while they are quite ruthless in knifing their leaders in the back or front even, they have also a history of electing leaders who went on to lose general elections.


their history of electing winning leaders is much better than any of the other parties tbf


----------



## nottsgirl (Jul 12, 2022)

I think Sunak is going to win.


----------



## xenon (Jul 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> while truss has slipped in the Con Home rankings, she did just fine in the Opinium poll


Urgh, one for the words I actually hate thread.  (Opinium.)


----------



## weltweit (Jul 12, 2022)

Apart from opening up new pork markets I know zilch about Truss.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 12, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> I think Sunak is going to win.


He's not promising tax cuts the second he walks into number 10, so he won't.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 12, 2022)

chilango said:


> Badenoch will be able, and urged, to unleash wave after wave of culture war wedge issues (to distract from the slash and burn) and they'll delight in the "You can't say it's racist or sexist, she's a black woman! Ha! You're the real racist" they can wheel out in their defence.



I watched Badenoch’s campaign launch.

What was genuinely striking about her was the absolute cast iron and zealous adherence to neo-liberal first principles: the indefatigable faith in the free market and a determination to sweep away anything that gets in its way, the obsession with smashing up the state and collective institutions and the unshakeable commitment to ignoring all of the glaring evidence of following that approach for the last 45 years and simply demanding that it’s doubled down.

Not only did her entire analysis fly in the face of the stark economic realities of the current crisis (and the approach to tackling it being adopted by other countries) but - for the candidate of the now/the future - it all felt oddly retro, and was a speech that could have been delivered by Friedman, Thatcher or even the Mont Pelerin Society in 1947!

The culture war stuff is the least of the derangement


----------



## Wilf (Jul 12, 2022)

chilango said:


> Badenoch is very interesting in a terrifying way. I can't see her winning, but she scares me the most.


Yes, this- came to the thread to say summat like that. Completely mad in a sounding clear and sane way. Horrible.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 12, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Apart from opening up new pork markets I know zilch about Truss.


I don't watch the news so that vacant grin and wait for riotous applause that didn't come is the only clip I've seen of her.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 12, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I watched Badenoch’s campaign launch.
> 
> What was genuinely striking about her was the absolute cast iron and zealous adherence to neo-liberal first principles: the indefatigable faith in the free market and a determination to sweep away anything that gets in its way, the obsession with smashing up the state and collective institutions and the unshakeable commitment to ignoring all of the glaring evidence of following that approach for the last 45 years and simply demanding that it’s doubled down.
> 
> ...


This too, very much. Like listening to some fringe ideologues explaining how thatcher should _really_ behave.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don’t think they’re all ‘thick as pigshit’, that’s false comfort.


They have some low cunning but they are both stupid and ignorant


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 12, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I watched Badenoch’s campaign launch.
> 
> What was genuinely striking about her was the absolute cast iron and zealous adherence to neo-liberal first principles: the indefatigable faith in the free market and a determination to sweep away anything that gets in its way, the obsession with smashing up the state and collective institutions and the unshakeable commitment to ignoring all of the glaring evidence of following that approach for the last 45 years and simply demanding that it’s doubled down.
> 
> ...


Preparing for Power: it's Friedman meets Furedi in the love match/mash up from hell!

Cheers - Louis MacNeicde


----------



## weltweit (Jul 12, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I don't watch the news so that vacant grin and wait for riotous applause that didn't come is the only clip I've seen of her.


I do watch the news and it is the only impression I have of her


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 12, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Apart from opening up new pork markets I know zilch about Truss.



Zilch, coincidentally, is exactly how much Liz Truss knows about anything at all.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 12, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Apart from opening up new pork markets I know zilch about Truss.


She thinks it’s a disgrace that we import so much cheese.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Zilch, coincidentally, is exactly how much Liz Truss knows about anything at all.


Stop ignoring pork markets


----------



## brogdale (Jul 12, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> She thinks it’s a disgrace that we import so much cheese.


And that we import so much Royal family!


----------



## maomao (Jul 12, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> She thinks it’s a disgrace that we import so much cheese.


It's embarassing that so much of it is for me.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 12, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Preparing for Power: it's Friedman meets Furedi in the love match/mash up from hell!
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeicde



Good point re the RCP/Tory right nexus.

The main feeling I took from it was just how implausible her narrative and remedies are. Blaming the state and demanding cuts: to a state that has been cut by record levels since 2010, and which bailed the banks out in 2008 and bailed the country out during the pandemic just lacks any credibility in peoples lived experience and collective memory.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 12, 2022)

So, farewell Team Shapps.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> And that we import so much Royal family!



Hypocrisy in the Tory Party?!


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> So, farewell Team Shapps.
> 
> View attachment 331974


The only 3 votes he could be sure of


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> This is a bit ghoulish. Not who do you reckon will win but who do you want to be the winner out of these 8?
> Avidly watching the gruesome talent show without any preference on outcome is even weirder though.


The best for me would probably be Hunt, both a pushover for Labour and unlikely to wreck anything before the next GE. I don't think he has a snowball's chance though.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 12, 2022)

teqniq said:


> It would appear that there's a fair amount of appealing to the lowest common denominator going on:



He did a u turn within a couple of hours of saying that. Even some Tories were apparently unhappy with it!


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## spitfire (Jul 12, 2022)

Judging by the campaign launches I've just seen they'll all have covid by this time next week.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## hash tag (Jul 12, 2022)

I was thinking anyone but Truss until I heard about Sunaks statement re thatcher. I guess he sees evoking the ghost of Thatcher a vote winner 😡


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 12, 2022)




----------



## wow (Jul 12, 2022)

Hey, first post. Sunak will win. Safe bet.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 13, 2022)

wow said:


> Hey, first post. Sunak will win. Safe bet.


When's your last?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 13, 2022)

wow said:


> Hey, first post. Sunak will win. Safe bet.


Against whom?


----------



## wow (Jul 13, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Against whom?


Braverman at a guess


----------



## Raheem (Jul 13, 2022)

Sunak will win _tomorrow_, no doubt.


----------



## wow (Jul 13, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> When's your last?


Nice welcome. Thanks


----------



## Raheem (Jul 13, 2022)

It will be Sunak v either Mordaunt or Tugginghat (spellcheck optional). Truss has an outside chance, but it would be very stupid to put her through, and probably enough Tory MPs know that.


----------



## wow (Jul 13, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Sunak will win _tomorrow_, no doubt.


He’ll win overall. He’s the only big name who’s pushing “fiscal responsibility” aka “tax the poor”. Because of the chancellorship, he’s nationally recognised. He conned everyone into a furlough during the pandemic (whilst sweeping the balance sheet under the carpet). He’s the PM in waiting.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 13, 2022)

wow said:


> Nice welcome. Thanks


Apologies. Very rude of me.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

At least Tug-and-rub has made his sexual peccadilloes front and centre of his image rather than waiting for it all to come out, so to speak, in some sordid scandal later.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 13, 2022)

Christ. He's at it now 🤣


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 13, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



They are such shameless fuckers.  Sunak was 10 years old when Thatcher left office. He wasn't even born when she entered office and would have been a toddler when she was twatting on about family budgets.


----------



## wow (Jul 13, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Apologies. Very rude of me.


Cool, nice one, no problem


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 13, 2022)

Dark arts!


----------



## two sheds (Jul 13, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Christ. He's at it now 🤣



Just came on to post that. Another tory needing to get to the toilet quickly.

"Hold that sign" "But he's no intention of Reuniting the Country, we wouldn't want him to." "Shut up and hold the fucking sign"


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 13, 2022)

Reuniting the country in hating the Tories


----------



## Raheem (Jul 13, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They are such shameless fuckers.  Sunak was 10 years old when Thatcher left office. He wasn't even born when she entered office and would have been a toddler when she was twatting on about family budgets.


When she was sports minister under Blair, Estelle Morris fondly recalled sitting on her dad's shoulders watching George Best play at Old Trafford, even though she would have been a teenager when he first played for Man United.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 13, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> When's your last?


I think you just read their near-to-last post. I don't think they're going to like it here.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 13, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Judging by the campaign launches I've just seen they'll all have covid by this time next week.


Not a trivial case I hope


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 13, 2022)

They are all off their faces. Fucking hell


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 13, 2022)

Tonight should give us at least some idea of who the final two are going to be, my initial guess which currently has minimal evidence to suport is Rishi Rich VS either Lizzie-Dizzie Don't or Penny Malificient. How the membership might vote I don't really know. I don't know any Conservative Party members.  I know a lot of Tory voters, considering where I live most of my neighbours must be but of course they have no more of a vote in this than I do.
If I was getting a vote I would probably cast it for Tom TuggingHisHat as least worst option. He seems the most rational of the lot and not totally stupid.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

I mean, I’m a political nerd and two of those faces I don’t recognise. (5 and 8).  7 I only know because of that car crash interview about the ERG, and I only learned her name because she was standing for leadership and it made me go WTF.

Number 2, I barely know and I’m not sure why. Probably from HIGNFY. 

It’s times like these that I’m reminded when I used to think that politicians, even if I didn’t agree with them, were capable and intelligent people. That was before I realised that they’re just people, like everyone else. Like you and me. I’d look foolish if I had to do a speech about cheese too.


----------



## killer b (Jul 13, 2022)

I reckon I could do a great speech about cheese tbf. Where my cabinet position?


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 13, 2022)

wow said:


> He’ll win overall. He’s the only big name who’s pushing “fiscal responsibility” aka “tax the poor”. Because of the chancellorship, he’s nationally recognised. He conned everyone into a furlough during the pandemic (whilst sweeping the balance sheet under the carpet). He’s the PM in waiting.



Not wishing to derail, but was furlough a bad thing? I don't think so.

 Of course, if a Labour chancellor had come up with it, the rw tabloids would have screamed about spongers


----------



## Cid (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s times like these that I’m reminded when I used to think that politicians, even if I didn’t agree with them, were capable and intelligent people. That was before I realised that they’re just people, like everyone else. Like you and me. I’d look foolish if I had to do a speech about cheese too.



Yeah innit... I'm surprised how many still think this. I had an argument with someone on a (law podcast) facebook group (so down with the kids) recently; he was saying that Johnson's ousting showed that the rest of the party still maintained a core of moral integrity. Baffling.


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s times like these that I’m reminded when I used to think that politicians, even if I didn’t agree with them, were capable and intelligent people. That was before I realised that they’re just people, like everyone else. Like you and me. I’d look foolish if I had to do a speech about cheese too.


It's made me wonder if the politicians of yesteryear looked like brainless chancers and twats to the grumpy middle aged of their time or if they have really got significantly worse.


----------



## Supine (Jul 13, 2022)

Read the room Zahawi, read the fucking room…


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 13, 2022)

Supine said:


> Read the room Zahawi, read the fucking room…




But when I'm prime minister, which is more likely to happen, I won't give Boris Johnson a job.

Except maybe the job Edward Woodward gets given at the end of the Wicker Man.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 13, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Not wishing to derail, but was furlough a bad thing? I don't think so.
> 
> Of course, if a Labour chancellor had come up with it, the rw tabloids would have screamed about spongers


Furlough was good for employees. Where his record is much worse is on supporting self employed. Consequently many small businesses had to fold completely and there are now many fewer people self employed than in 2019.

On the business side, he has been responsible for billions of fraudulent COVID recovery loans being handed out on his watch. Plus billions wasted on test and trace programme, mostly on expensive management consultants being paid up to £5,000 per day.

So overall I'd say his pandemic record is fairly patchy. The BBC was sickeningly painting him as a superhero just for doing the same COVID stimulus stuff that every other developed economy did.


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

I think it really might have been that pork markets moment that has done for liz truss, robbed her of her rightful (in her head) place as our leader.
Those long painful seconds that everybody has seen are actually the only memorable thing about her apart from maybe that photo with the fur hat on. The age of the videoclip has changed stuff it must have.
eta


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Not wishing to derail, but was furlough a bad thing? I don't think so.
> 
> Of course, if a Labour chancellor had come up with it, the rw tabloids would have screamed about spongers



Furlough wasn't particularly a Sunak idea, nor even a UK-specific one.  Furlough schemes were introduced in most European countries


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 13, 2022)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> I think it really might have been that pork markets moment that has done for liz truss, robbed her of her rightful (in her head) place as our leader.
> Those long painful seconds that everybody has seen are actually the only memorable thing about her apart from maybe that photo with the fur hat on. The age of the videoclip has changed stuff it must have.
> eta
> 
> View attachment 332020


We should ask them all questions about life. The big questions. Things none of us knows.  Like: “what colour of bin is collected this week?” 

My old neighbours, Jean and Ron, they’d know. I’d trust them with the economy. Not this lot.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>



Must be a right old laugh, Robert Peston if that's his idea of comedy gold.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Not wishing to derail, but was furlough a bad thing? I don't think so.
> 
> Of course, if a Labour chancellor had come up with it, the rw tabloids would have screamed about spongers



It was objectively necessary. It was also brilliantly designed and delivered by the state: something the leadership contenders have all conveniently overlooked. Instead they are now engaged in competition to see who can cut the state the most so that money can be passed to corporations.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> We should ask them all questions about life. The big questions. Things none of us knows.  Like: “what colour of bin is collected this week?”
> 
> My old neighbours, Jean and Ron, they’d know. I’d trust them with the economy. Not this lot.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> We should ask them all questions about life. The big questions. Things none of us knows.  Like: “what colour of bin is collected this week?”
> 
> My old neighbours, Jean and Ron, they’d know. I’d trust them with the economy. Not this lot.


The trick is not to be the first, I always wait until at least half a dozen others have been put out before I do mine.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> It was objectively necessary. It was also brilliantly designed and delivered by the state: something the leadership contenders have all conveniently overlooked. Instead they are now engaged in competition to see who can cut the state the most so that money can be passed to corporations.


Not sure it was brilliantly designed and delivered. But I’m with you in the rest.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> The trick is not to be the first, I always wait until at least half a dozen others have been put out before I do mine.


Well, exactly. They’re all waiting to see what Jean and Ron do.


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

Sunak invokes the ghost of that woman, Mordaunt chooses to remember the falklands.  They’re playing all the old hits


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> It was objectively necessary. It was also brilliantly designed and delivered by the state: something the leadership contenders have all conveniently overlooked. Instead they are now engaged in competition to see who can cut the state the most so that money can be passed to corporations.


Except for the ones claiming Sunak introduced socialism! All the anti Sunak campaigns are going on about him being too interventionist.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> Sunak invokes the ghost of *that woman,* Mordaunt chooses to remember the falklands.  They’re playing all the old hits


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

The big question for cheese connoisseur Liz is shorely - before or after beans?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Not sure it was brilliantly designed and delivered.



My wife was deployed onto the Furlough team during the pandemic so I’ll pass your comments and thoughts on to her…


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

What are those things called that you blow into at parties and they make a tooh dooh sound then sort of unfurl?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 13, 2022)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> My wife was deployed onto the Furlough team during the pandemic so I’ll pass your comments and thoughts on to her…


Nothing against individuals involved. But there were many discrepancies and oversights in the scheme.  But yes, at short notice, they got money to people at a time it was needed.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 13, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




I don't know what this means. Presumably an anti-trans thing?


----------



## cesare (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> What are those things called that you blow into at parties and they make a tooh dooh sound then sort of unfurl?


Party vuvuzelas


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Nothing against individuals involved. But there were many discrepancies and oversights in the scheme.  But yes, at short notice, they got money to people at a time it was needed.



All joking aside, compare and contrast the furlough scheme to the private sector run test, trace and trace system.

The Tories plan to cut the budget of former by 20% to reduce the corporation tax of the latter. Most people understand that to be utterly shit politics.

My wife says your a twat by the way…


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> All joking aside, compare and contrast the furlough scheme to the private sector run test, trace and trace system.
> 
> The Tories plan to cut the budget of former by 20% to reduce the corporation tax of the latter. Most people understand that to be utterly shit politics.
> 
> My wife says your a twat by the way…


I’m agreeing with you on all points expect that the scheme was “brilliantly designed and delivered”.  I’m not joking that many of us did not find it so.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 13, 2022)

It was not brilliantly designed and delivered.

It completely missed 3m people.





						ExcludedUK | Supporting +3million taxpayers
					






					excludeduk.org
				




The Denmark scheme has been held up as a much better example of how to target support to the businesses who needed it the most (e.g. Events industry, Creative industry, wedding industry) who basically got completely shafted by UK Gov.

And I'll take your "my wife" anecdote and raise you that my wife's business (creative industry) was devastated by UK Gov's decisions and she got almost zero support. Certainly not enough to live on like she would have had in other countries.


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> Sunak invokes the ghost of that woman, Mordaunt chooses to remember the falklands.  They’re playing all the old hits


That whole Sunak 'I'm just like Thatcher because I helped out in my mum's pharmacy' thing. Thatcher was an anomaly in the higher echelons of the Tory party at that time because she was grammar school educated and not a public school type. Sunak seems to have omitted the whole going to Winchester thing for some reason.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> I think it really might have been that pork markets moment that has done for liz truss, robbed her of her rightful (in her head) place as our leader.
> Those long painful seconds that everybody has seen are actually the only memorable thing about her apart from maybe that photo with the fur hat on. The age of the videoclip has changed stuff it must have.
> eta
> 
> View attachment 332020



Which is funny because she’s spent an absolute mint on PR the last couple of years.

Less funny because it’s our money she spent


----------



## flypanam (Jul 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> Sunak invokes the ghost of that woman, Mordaunt chooses to remember the falklands.  They’re playing all the old hits


But it the old hits that matter to the reactionary group that make up the membership. 

I do genuinely think that they’ve lost the old idea that the status quo has to offer material benefits to the WC.


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I don't know what this means. Presumably an anti-trans thing?


Making light of the fact that she opposed some of the anti-trans rhetoric and was happy to use gender neutral language, which all the others (profess to) hate.

e2a: it was specifically said in answer to a question, that the guardian couldn’t hear properly, about trans issues


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Sue said:


> That whole Sunak 'I'm just like Thatcher because I helped out in my mum's pharmacy' thing. Thatcher was an anomaly in the higher echelons of the Tory party at that time because she was grammar school educated and not a public school type. Sunak seems to have omitted the whole going to Winchester thing for some reason.


Have we had this?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> My wife says your a twat by the way…


She can come and explain how “brilliantly” my finances were supported by the scheme that left me without any support at all, then.  Joking aside.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m agreeing with you on all points expect that the scheme was “brilliantly designed and delivered”.  I’m not joking that many of us did not find it so.



Most people recognise that the Furlough Scheme was both a necessity and a success. 

Just for info, the staff who delivered it were rounded up from elsewhere (my wife’s actual job is tax credits). These workers are already overworked and under resourced were asked to work through the pandemic to administer a scheme that had to be delivered at an unprecedented scale and pace. 

Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Have we had this?



Oh yes. I wonder what 'working class/not working class' is in his book. Maybe a doctor or a lawyer or something. (Pretty sure he's not talking about friends who dig roads or work in Tesco or in a call centre or whatever.)


----------



## spitfire (Jul 13, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Which is funny because she’s spent an absolute mint on PR the last couple of years.
> 
> Less funny because it’s our money she spent



I think that's what has led to the dip in popularity. The more she has put her head above the parapet, the more people (Tories are people too!) realised what a vacuum of personality and brains she is.


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

Sunak also consulted with the Labour shadow chancellor to get furlough agreed. One J McDonnell.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Most people recognise that the Furlough Scheme was both a necessity and a success.
> 
> Just for info, the staff who delivered it were rounded up from elsewhere (my wife’s actual job is tax credits). These workers are already overworked and under resourced were asked to work through the pandemic to administer a scheme that had to be delivered at an unprecedented scale and pace.
> 
> Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace


I’m not having a go at your wife. I’m asking you to accept that “brilliantly” was overstating the case.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> Sunak also consulted with the Labour shadow chancellor to get furlough agreed. One J McDonnell.


and the TUC I think


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 13, 2022)

Sue said:


> Oh yes. I wonder what 'working class/not working class' is in his book. Maybe a doctor or a lawyer or something. (Pretty sure he's not talking about friends who dig roads or work in Tesco or in a call centre or whatever.)


I think the distinction in his mind is probably how Alan Clark described Michael Hesletine (someone who had to buy, rather than inherit their furniture)


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Most people recognise that the Furlough Scheme was both a necessity and a success.
> 
> Just for info, the staff who delivered it were rounded up from elsewhere (my wife’s actual job is tax credits). These workers are already overworked and under resourced were asked to work through the pandemic to administer a scheme that had to be delivered at an unprecedented scale and pace.
> 
> Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace


danny la rouge's points are clearly not a criticism of your wife or her colleagues.  And I'm sure he'd agree that they were overworked, underpaid and all the rest of it. As are many people in the public sector.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Sue said:


> danny la rouge's points are clearly not a criticism of your wife or her colleagues.  And I'm sure he'd agree that they were overworked, underpaid and all the rest of it. As are many people in the public sector.


Exactly. The individual workers are not in question here. Just that the scheme - while broadly doing a good job at short notice - failed many.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m not having a go at your wife. I’m asking you to accept that “brilliantly” was overstating the case.



I know your not Danny! My point is that a comparison of the state delivered Furlough Scheme and comparable schemes run by the private sector are instructive in the current Tory leadership debate


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2022)

Sue said:


> Oh yes. I wonder what 'working class/not working class' is in his book. Maybe a doctor or a lawyer or something. (Pretty sure he's not talking about friends who dig roads or work in Tesco or in a call centre or whatever.)


The Tories have some very weird ideas on class. I seem to recall Cameron saying something like that before he was famous when went he went round to people's house for dinner parties  they often thought he was a plumber


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I know your not Danny! My point is that a comparison of the state delivered Furlough Scheme and comparable schemes run by the private sector are instructive in the current Tory leadership debate


I know. I’m agreeing with you on all substantive points.

Anyway, this is going round in circles so I’m leaving it there.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 13, 2022)

(I would be interested in a thread on the shortcomings of furlough as it’s my area but I never got involved with it due to not being well enough to work when it was rolled out. My gut feeling is that it’s chief success was being rolled out speedily and Sunak taking on non Tory party views. But for another thread.)


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 13, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I don't know what this means. Presumably an anti-trans thing?


She is trying to pitch herself as the anti-everything with the better chance of beating Rishi. That means pandering to Britain's newest import from American politics: transphobia!


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2022)

In a TV debate between Sunak, Mordaunt and Truss who would come across better?  Never seen  Truss as a debater and her delivery in just speaking is poor, Sunak is fairly confident but not sure of him landing any blows. Mordaunt whilst having the tone of a speaking clock does look like she could handle herself and get a few digs in.


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2022)

In regards the furlough discussion, I think it may be fair to suspect that the new poster who started this with the choice of words 'He conned everyone into a furlough' was not making the same sort of sensible criticism that others have since gotten into here. Maybe the words were just poorly chosen, but they appear to reek of some dubious angle about the entire pandemic reality.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 13, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> The Tories have some very weird ideas on class. I seem to recall Cameron saying something like that before he was famous when went he went round to people's house for dinner parties  they often thought he was a plumber


What he turned up late if at all and cost them a fortune?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 13, 2022)

This dogshit idiot - Corbett Dillion - a former Johnson adviser apparently thought the reason Johnson resigned was because he got too 'woke' and 'globalist'.  









						Boris Johnson's former advisor says he was elected to be 'British Trump'
					

Just when it couldn't get more difficult to choose between the drama of Love Island and politics, Boris Johnson's former advisor has admitted the prime minister was supposed to be like the 'British Trump' but became 'woke'.Thomas Corbett-Dillon was speaking with Tucker Carlson on life after...




					www.indy100.com


----------



## xenon (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Most people recognise that the Furlough Scheme was both a necessity and a success.
> 
> Just for info, the staff who delivered it were rounded up from elsewhere (my wife’s actual job is tax credits). These workers are already overworked and under resourced were asked to work through the pandemic to administer a scheme that had to be delivered at an unprecedented scale and pace.
> 
> Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace



This is unfair. DLR is hardly defending the latter or crittizising individuals who worked to deliver the furlough scheme as was. Rather that the scheme didn't go far enough and left people like him. self employed, with nothing.


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> It's made me wonder if the politicians of yesteryear looked like brainless chancers and twats to the grumpy middle aged of their time or if they have really got significantly worse.


They were probably just as bad but perceptions may have been affected by an initially much higher degree of deference, by the media being a bit different and running at a slightly different pace, and by the absence of so much formal 'media training' undertaken by public figures.

The death of deference went hand in hand with a satire boom which offered an early opportunity to see how much low regard and mockery could be sent politicians way.

The original satire boom didnt last that long and ws largely done by a particular class, but much later on we got another form of it, eg the 1980s tories ended up being satirised as subservient vegetables to Thatcher via Spitting Image.

Maybe its fair to say that some periods had much more emphasis on policy, ideology and the big issues rather than personalities. We are at an awkward stage at the moment where there is still much emphasis on the personalities involved but where a big bunch of big issues are increasingly making themselves felt, and where big ideological questions keep threatening to erupt in the mainstream after a long absence that was sponsored by 'centre ground' bullshit.

These tory leadership contests feature plenty of absurdities of personality and ideological ghosts, and only occasional glimpses at an ideological crisis that the tories will have to face more comprehensively at some point. Because it looks like the economic realities of this century are not compatible with the free market, small state nutters that swell the tory party ranks these days. There will be a reckoning over this eventually, but it may not come in a neat and tidy form with sensible debate. Even if it turns out that the tories eventually have no choice but to come to terms with a reality where where a change back to something that has far more in common the old 'one nation conservatives in a post-war consensus era' than it does the rabid free market Thatcherites, the path to get there may still be loaded with bitter denial and all manner of silly panto stuff that is rather opaque in terms of revealing the real transformation that they will have to face.


----------



## xenon (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I know your not Danny! My point is that a comparison of the state delivered Furlough Scheme and comparable schemes run by the private sector are instructive in the current Tory leadership debate



Just catching up...
I agree with your broader point. It's insane most of these freaks see the way out of economic strife is more austerity, neoliberalism,  Singapor on Thames nonsense.


----------



## Cid (Jul 13, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> But when I'm prime minister, which is more likely to happen, I won't give Boris Johnson a job.
> 
> *Except maybe the job Edward Woodward gets given at the end of the Wicker Man.*



Sadly I think we're all painfully aware of how poorly he meets one of the job requirements:




			
				wiki said:
			
		

> came of his own free will, has "the power of a king" (by representing the Law), is a virgin, and is a "fool".


----------



## emanymton (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> It's made me wonder if the politicians of yesteryear looked like brainless chancers and twats to the grumpy middle aged of their time or if they have really got significantly worse.


I think they have got worse. 

My theory us that the decline in working class struggle has lead to growing incompetence on their side. They are worse because there is no need for them to be better.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 13, 2022)

I think the furlough scheme was delivered well by the civil service in terms of the operational challenge. 

But the political decision to screw over the self employed and creative industries was 100% Sunak's call and he needs to be held responsible for that.

And he allowed widespread fraud via the bounce back loans scheme where billions of taxpayer money was basically handed out with zero oversight.

So while self employed sole traders were screwed over unless they had massive profits, limited company directors could get free loans of tens of thousands then pocket the money and wind up the company.

So I'd give him no more than a 5/10 for his economic performance during the pandemic.









						Covid fraud: how bounce back loans paid for cars, watches and even porn
					

As details emerge, concerns grow about Treasury’s efforts to recover almost £5bn wrongly claimed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I think they have got worse.
> 
> My theory us that the decline in working class struggle has lead to growing incompetence on their side. They are worse because there is no need for them to be better.


Alternatively, there were several decades where industrial disputes were hardly managed properly by the political classes.

And by the early 1990s we got 'black Wednesday' which rather shred any remaining tory claims to be the party of economic competence.

On the other hand, there were lengthy periods where something labelled the post-war consensus gave the impression of there being some forces at work which restrained a parties capacity to go and do completely batshit stuff that went far beyond some kind of uneasy compromise between different forces. By tthe end of the 1970s restraint on this front was toast.

I suppose it is possible that some aspects of cold war worst case planning also acted as a restraint against certain forms of shrinking state services. For example it is possible that the hospital beds to population ratio was kept at a certain level to cater for some of those worst-case war plans, and that certain capitalist extremes were kept partially in check in order to reduce the chances of really losing a big ideological battle.

Whether it be through the simple rise to power of nutters like Thatcher and Reagan or other factors such as energy shocks and years of industrial strife, there were a bunch of assumptions that were no longer safe by the 1980s, any pretense about a post-war consensus having existed was being unravelled with enthusiasm. And one of the affects of that was that certain forms of mask slipped, casting individual politicians in a different light to that which had gone before.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I think they have got worse.
> 
> My theory us that the decline in working class struggle has lead to growing incompetence on their side. They are worse because there is no need for them to be better.


Good point .


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 13, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> This dogshit idiot - Corbett Dillion - a former Johnson adviser apparently thought the reason Johnson resigned was because he got too 'woke' and 'globalist'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If Kemi Badenoch gets in the likes of Tucker Carlson are going to have a brain meltdown.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace



Lots of crap talked about this figure. For a start it's £29.5 billion, not 37. The vast majority of that was spent on the 500,000,000 free PCR and LFT tests. The notion it was mostly frittered away is bollocks.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Lots of crap talked about this figure. For a start it's £29.5 billion, not 37. The vast majority of that was spent on the 500,000,000 free PCR and LFT tests. The notion it was mostly frittered away is bollocks.







__





						Loading…
					





					committees.parliament.uk
				




"The Public Accounts Committee says that while NHST&T clearly had to be set up and staffed at incredible speed, it must now "wean itself off its persistent reliance on consultants"; there is still no clear evidence of NHST&T's overall effectiveness; and it’s not clear whether its contribution to reducing infection levels - as opposed to the other measures introduced to tackle the pandemic - can justify its "unimaginable" costs".


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As I said, it was mostly spent on free testing. I expect every single person on the left bandying the incorrect £37 billion figure around now, would have been vociferously against charging for tests since the beginning of the pandemic.


----------



## xenon (Jul 13, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> If Kemi Badenoch gets in the likes of Tucker Carlson are going to have a brain meltdown.



They'll love it. Right wing randist anti PC mania <>  boneheaded racism.


----------



## flypanam (Jul 13, 2022)

xenon said:


> They'll love it. Right wing randist anti PC mania <>  boneheaded racism.


Carlson loves Clarence Thomas.


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2022)

Te idea that the test & trace money was wasted is partially sponsored by the fact they massively oversold what it could achieve. They sold is as an alternative to national lockdowns, but I did try to warn people that in many scenarios even a decent test & trace system wont avoidf the need for needing other strong measures, it will just buy a bit of time and give better signals about when the optimum moment to slam the brakes on is.

And the merits of that aspect are undermined if the trace bit is too slow, if you dont make it financially practical for every segment of society to self-isolate, if you delay slamming on the brakes even when the system provides clear signals that now is the right time, and if you leave big holes in the defenses against spread by leaving institutions such as schools vulnerable.

Even with those aspects squandered, I still believe in free testing for all manner of diseases and certainly this one during a nasty pandemic. I'd go as far as to say it should be a human right. But the traditional establishment view in this country is that mass testing for a whole raft of different diseases is just not worth it, and they resist such things in normal times and abnormal times. They dont mind expanding vaccine programmes to ease things like the winter flu burden, but they arent very interested in ideas such as properly testing everyone in hospital for influenza, not even if hospital spread is an important dynamic. Thats a big part of why we didnt have much testing capacity in the first place, unlike a country like Germany where mass diagnostics testing for a broader range of diseases was already something of a norm. And thats part of why the UK government felt the need to rely on huge additional claims about what the testing system could achieve when they were first announcing this new focus, it was beyond the normal establishment priorities and methods in the UK. And at the time they didnt have any other 'lights at the end of the tunnel' to go on about once the first wave peak was reached, vaccines were still some way off and they felt the need to come up with something else that they could claim would avoid the cycle of national lockdown repeating. Local lockdowns were then added to this mix once it became clear there would be resurgences of the disease once national lockdown 1 was over.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 13, 2022)

Seems the pollsters don't know how to poll con members yet:


----------



## brogdale (Jul 13, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Seems the pollsters don't know how to poll con members yet:



Mebbe taking their lead from the top; lying bastards all?


----------



## contadino (Jul 13, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Seems the pollsters don't know how to poll con members yet:



...and probably nothing to do with Zahawi's buddies at YouGov.


----------



## killer b (Jul 13, 2022)

contadino said:


> ...and probably nothing to do with Zahawi's buddies at YouGov.


What does this mean?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 13, 2022)

Hasn't ConHome been remarkably accurate in the past?

edit: seems they do well on the final two:









						The ConHome survey's recent record | Conservative Home
					

Any Party member can join the panel that returns the survey by sending a copy of their membership certificate to news@conservativehome.com.




					conservativehome.com


----------



## killer b (Jul 13, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Seems the pollsters don't know how to poll con members yet:



Someone in the replies says the Opiniun polling was done last week before Johnson resigned


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

contadino said:


> ...and probably nothing to do with Zahawi's buddies at YouGov.


they must not like him much his buddies, seeing as he comes last, soundly beaten by None Of The Above and the ever popular Don't Know. .


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

Badenoch polling so high on that conservative home website when they line her up against the other contenders i find worrying, (easily beats Sunak & truss) because unlike most of them i think she actually believes in the stuff she is saying.








						Next Tory Leader run-offs. First, Penny Mordaunt. Second, Kemi Badenoch | Conservative Home
					

It's perhaps an unlikely final for Party members but a fascinating snapshot of where the panel finds itself today.




					conservativehome.com


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Badenoch polling so high on that conservative home website when they line her up against the other contenders i find worrying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She wants to disband HM Treasury now apparently. A new Department for Economic Growth...


----------



## moochedit (Jul 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> What does this mean?


Doesnt he own (or used to own) you gov?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 13, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> She wants to disband HM Treasury now apparently. A new Department for Economic Growth...


With 5 year plans?


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Doesnt he own (or used to own) you gov?


Yes. But it's not doing him any good. Maybe he was a shit boss.


----------



## killer b (Jul 13, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Doesnt he own (or used to own) you gov?


so he leaned on them to put him last? that's got to be the shittest conspiracy theory I've heard yet


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 13, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> She wants to disband HM Treasury now apparently. A new Department for Economic Growth...


To be fair she's the only one who seems to be bringing fresh ideas to the table. A better early years childcare system is something that people have been crying out for. 

The rest are just engaged in a competition to be the most like Thatcher/ hand out tax cuts / be the most transphobic.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 13, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I think the distinction in his mind is probably how Alan Clark described Michael Hesletine (someone who had to buy, rather than inherit their furniture)




Nah, I suspect it’s more “he’s got a job so he’s working class” - see how the QT audience keep saying “I’m just a struggling working class northerner - how can I live on 80 grand a year?”


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 13, 2022)

elbows said:


> Te idea that the test & trace money was wasted is partially sponsored by the fact they massively oversold what it could achieve. They sold is as an alternative to national lockdowns, but I did try to warn people that in many scenarios even a decent test & trace system wont avoidf the need for needing other strong measures, it will just buy a bit of time and give better signals about when the optimum moment to slam the brakes on is.
> 
> And the merits of that aspect are undermined if the trace bit is too slow, if you dont make it financially practical for every segment of society to self-isolate, if you delay slamming on the brakes even when the system provides clear signals that now is the right time, and if you leave big holes in the defenses against spread by leaving institutions such as schools vulnerable.
> 
> Even with those aspects squandered, I still believe in free testing for all manner of diseases and certainly this one during a nasty pandemic. I'd go as far as to say it should be a human right. But the traditional establishment view in this country is that mass testing for a whole raft of different diseases is just not worth it, and they resist such things in normal times and abnormal times. They dont mind expanding vaccine programmes to ease things like the winter flu burden, but they arent very interested in ideas such as properly testing everyone in hospital for influenza, not even if hospital spread is an important dynamic. Thats a big part of why we didnt have much testing capacity in the first place, unlike a country like Germany where mass diagnostics testing for a broader range of diseases was already something of a norm. And thats part of why the UK government felt the need to rely on huge additional claims about what the testing system could achieve when they were first announcing this new focus, it was beyond the normal establishment priorities and methods in the UK. And at the time they didnt have any other 'lights at the end of the tunnel' to go on about once the first wave peak was reached, vaccines were still some way off and they felt the need to come up with something else that they could claim would avoid the cycle of national lockdown repeating. Local lockdowns were then added to this mix once it became clear there would be resurgences of the disease once national lockdown 1 was over.



T&T has to be used with other factors and there just weren’t any mooted - MPs insisting that everything was fine and we all deserved to go to Spain no strings attached the same summer. Or pinkie swear stay at home measures and no financial compensation for staying home


----------



## moochedit (Jul 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> so he leaned on them to put him last? that's got to be the shittest conspiracy theory I've heard yet


No idea. Wasn't me that made the first post. It was contadino . Just remembered he had something to do with you gov.


----------



## contadino (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> they must not like him much his buddies, seeing as he comes last, soundly beaten by None Of The Above and the ever popular Don't Know. .
> 
> View attachment 332061


So if Trussed Up Liz has told him he'd get a shit job in her government and Painfully Maudlin has told him he'd get a top job in her cabinet?

He's gotta realise by now that he's going to be looking for a job soon, so any number of angles come into play.


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2022)

This afternoons gossip:


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2022)

And the latest from that forecasting bloke who did reasonably well at predicting the initial qualification stage (apart from incorrectly thinking Patel would stand):


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 13, 2022)

Presumably they’ve gone to Penny Mordaunt?


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

contadino said:


> So if Trussed Up Liz has told him he'd get a shit job in her government and Painfully Maudlin has told him he'd get a top job in her cabinet?
> 
> He's gotta realise by now that he's going to be looking for a job soon, so any number of angles come into play.


Eh? You think he rigged the polls to do whatever ‘angle’ but decided also whilst he was at it to give himself a laughable 1% of the vote?


----------



## killer b (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Eh? You think he rigged the polls to do whatever ‘angle’ but decided also whilst he was at it to give himself a laughable 1% of the vote?


it's to put us off the trail. real smart. so many angles in play


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

No announcement till 5??   No wonder they can’t run an economy if it takes them 90 minutes to count 360 votes.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> No announcement till 5??   No wonder they can’t run an economy if it takes them 90 minutes to count 360 votes.


You try reading fabricant's handwriting.


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

Wait what is happening at 5, they announce who goes through to the knockout round? How many go on to next bit?


----------



## andysays (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Wait what is happening at 5, they announce who goes through to the knockout round? How many go on to next bit?



This is just the first of many (ETA: up to six, potentially) rounds


----------



## contadino (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Eh? You think he rigged the polls to do whatever ‘angle’ but decided also whilst he was at it to give himself a laughable 1% of the vote?


Sorry. Don't understand. His score's been immaterial since Monday. It's the top of the chart that matters, not the bottom.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 13, 2022)

god I wish that 7 of the 8 could get fewer than 30 votes today just so this fucking interminable drama could end and not drag on another 6 fucking weeks


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

When do they get to play their joker?


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

Oh I see. Today just shows who wasn’t able to get 30 (?) mps to pretend to like them. So could go down to 2 or could be most of them lurching onward.
It’s like the worlds shittest talent show.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

Don't forget the new wildcard they introduced since last time, which allows each candidate one chance to skip a voting round entirely by hiding in a fridge till it's over.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

If Tugenhat can hang on till the pugelsticks round he might still have a chance.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

Cerv said:


> god I wish that 7 of the 8 could get fewer than 30 votes today just so this fucking interminable drama could end and not drag on another 6 fucking weeks



Yes, I have to agree.

In the past I might have said let them tear strips off each other for as long as possible, let Rees-Mogg makes increasingly badly disguised racist comments about Sunak - the more of it we get, the more damage it does them. The main drawback to that, I now think, is that you need an opposition leader capable of seizing the moment and kicking Labour a few places up the poll ratings while the Tories are busy, otherwise all it is is a month of 24-hour news coverage of every time Jeremy Hunt takes his dog on a run with him. And unfortunately Starmer couldn't seize a moment if you sedated it and strapped it to his chest in a baby carrier.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Oh I see. Today just shows who wasn’t able to get 30 (?) mps to pretend to like them. So could go down to 2 or could be most of them lurching onward.
> It’s like the worlds shittest talent show.


The So What? Bee.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 13, 2022)

JimW said:


> If Tugenhat can hang on till the pugelsticks round he might still have a chance.


Tugenhat can't even look after his own constituency let alone the country and regularly votes according to the party line wants and not what we here have voted for (he's my mp) 

🍆🍆🍆


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

Tuggrnhat won’t win because he has a funny name. I have a funny name so I know, people don’t like things they can’t spell. When I did telesales they made me lie and pretend to have a normal name.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 13, 2022)

We all call him Tugentwat


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2022)

JimW said:


> When do they get to play their joker?



They sacked him  off last week.


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

Do we get to know which of these our MP is endorsing?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Tuggrnhat won’t win because he has a funny name. I have a funny name so I know, people don’t like things they can’t spell. When I did telesales they made me lie and pretend to have a normal name.


It sounded Huguenot to me. Because of the Gs and Ns and Ts. But I’ve just done a web search and it isn’t.   Tugendhat - Wikipedia

So now we know.  So we can forget him all over again when he loses.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Tuggrnhat won’t win because he has a funny name. I have a funny name so I know, people don’t like things they can’t spell. When I did telesales they made me lie and pretend to have a normal name.



Yeah but in Tory terms it's funny because it sounds a bit foreign and, well ....


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> It sounded Huguenot to me. Because of the Gs and Ns and Ts. But I’ve just done a web search and it isn’t.   Tugendhat - Wikipedia
> 
> So now we know.  So we can forget him all over again when he loses.


Well. I wouldn’t have guessed that either.


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Do we get to know which of these our MP is endorsing?


There are lists of them everywhere (although they might well be lying)


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> It sounded Huguenot to me. Because of the Gs and Ns and Ts. But I’ve just done a web search and it isn’t.   Tugendhat - Wikipedia
> 
> So now we know.  So we can forget him all over again when he loses.



This is a better test than Michael Howard was of whether anti-semitism in the Tory party will put them off a candidate. With Howard, anyone trained to hear dog whistles knew where the 'something of the night' comment came from, of course, but he _was _more objectively evil than TT seems to be and that variable may have confounded the results.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Do we get to know which of these our MP is endorsing?



Only if the make it public the vote itself is secret.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Do we get to know which of these our MP is endorsing?











						Who is backing who? 180 Tory MPs pledge their vote in leadership contest
					

Rishi Sunak, Penny Mordaunt and Liz Truss still lead the way as the first round of the vote looms.




					www.glasgowtimes.co.uk


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

i almost feel for my MP, the absolute useless wanker.
Just went to see if he's said anything and he's been silent since this. That means he's supposed to go for Truss i think.



eta there's a survey up on his website asking constituents to tick boxes for which of the 8 they most dearly want.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 13, 2022)

Surely it’s “Tom Tug on that”?


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 13, 2022)

JimW said:


> You try reading fabricant's handwriting.


Why would they need to read even his scribble, surely with the resource of the Tory Party let alone Westminster someone could design a single A4 with a list of names and checkboxes on it and then print off 360 copies of it?


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

What do people make of Penny Mordaunt's apparent popularity? It seems disproportionate to her profile.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 13, 2022)

hmm - looks like its going to be penny morbid for our next pm then. If polls are believed, teh  Tory members aint too keen on socialist sunak by all accounts - certainly bourne out by comments on gammon-chat (the spectator Facebook page) .


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2022)

JimW said:


> When do they get to play their joker?


They're all fucking jokers.


----------



## agricola (Jul 13, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> What do people make of Penny Mordaunt's apparent popularity? It seems disproportionate to her profile.



Judging by the commentary, she appears to be in the sweet spot between rabid careerist gobshite and socialist hard left billionaire short bloke.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 13, 2022)

Wasn't sure where to put this. It could slot in anywhere really. A little time out with Miriam


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 13, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> What do people make of Penny Mordaunt's apparent popularity? It seems disproportionate to her profile.


Halo effect. She’s good looking and has a name with a classy ring to it, all of which is tick tick tick to brainless Daily Mail reading types who don’t bother themselves about complexities such as policies or voting record, etc.


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

Being a new face not much seen standing around next to BJ probably helps a bit, when the government you’re in implodes as embarrassingly as it just did.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 13, 2022)

So what was Johnson on about today in PMQ's when he said his successor might be elected by acclamation, so this could be his last PMQs? And then made a sort of farewell speech after which another PMQs would make him look like the man who left and then had to come back for his hat. 

Until he mentioned acclamation I thought it the least likely outcome this time round. And the only person I can think of being acclaimed is Sunak who is loathed by Johnson and his chums.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> They're all fucking jokers.


I’m only familiar with Sunak’s partner, tbf.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> So what was Johnson on about today in PMQ's when he said his successor might be elected by acclamation, so this could be his last PMQs? And then made a sort of farewell speech after which another PMQs would make him look like the man who left and then had to come back for his hat.
> 
> Until he mentioned acclamation I thought it the least likely outcome this time round. And the only person I can think of being acclaimed is Sunak who is loathed by Johnson and his chums.


I didn’t hear that, and don’t know. But Mordaunt?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 13, 2022)

This is like a bunch of flies vying to be first to the turd. There's not a single person on the list that my 9 year old daughter couldn't outwit.


----------



## agricola (Jul 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> So what was Johnson on about today in PMQ's when he said his successor might be elected by acclamation, so this could be his last PMQs? And then made a sort of farewell speech after which another PMQs would make him look like the man who left and then had to come back for his hat.
> 
> Until he mentioned acclamation I thought it the least likely outcome this time round. And the only person I can think of being acclaimed is Sunak who is loathed by Johnson and his chums.



he could quit, tell HM that Raab could form a government and then flounce off.  Raab could then form a government until Sept 5th and only a VONC or finance bill could then kick him out, until he resigns for Sept 5th.

Hunt has failed, Zahawi has failed, Braverman only got 32 so looks dodgy for next round.  Sunak won.


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Being a new face not much seen standing around next to BJ probably helps a bit, when the government you’re in implodes as embarrassingly as it just did.



Isn't the line of all candidates that the current government has great achievements - just a shame about the liar in charge. Though they don't ever say the second bit


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2022)

The following are out -

Hunt 18, Zahawi 25


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

Hunt and Zahawi out then


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 13, 2022)

First round results


Conservative party leadership election, first round result (MPs):

88 | Sunak
67 | Mordaunt 
50 | Truss
40 | Badenoch
37 | Tugendhat
32 | Braverman
25 | Zahawi
18 | Hunt

Hunt and Zahawi eliminated.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Zahawi and Hunt out.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

I hear Zahawi and Hunt are out.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2022)

In your excitement you've all missed the fact Zahawi and Hunt are out.


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

Looks as if Badenoch could catch Truss up, Sunak and Mordaunt will be top through till the final round


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Tugenhat can't even look after his own constituency let alone the country and regularly votes according to the party line wants and not what we here have voted for (he's my mp)
> 
> 🍆🍆🍆


He's an MP. That's how it works. 🤷‍♀️ 

(I'm obviously not saying it's good but it's not exactly a revelation that he behaves...like an MP.)


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I hear Zahawi and Hunt are out.



Where did you hear that?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> In your excitement you've all missed the fact Zahawi and Hunt are out.


I’d have got there quicker if it wasn’t for my fight with autocorrect.  (Hunt, actually. No, I’ve no idea what that says about me).


----------



## andysays (Jul 13, 2022)

No surprise that Sunak has come first, but Mordaunt will be pleased to have beaten Truss.

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Sunak and Mordaunt are the last two standing, and Mordaunt goes on to win the members' vote.

And worth mentioning that Zahawi and Hunt are both out.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 13, 2022)

Presumably Braverman will pull out and back Badenoch, Tugendhat supporters would coalesce around Mourdant ?


----------



## stavros (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Tuggrnhat won’t win because he has a funny name.


That's true of a number of them though. I've heard different pronunciations of Badenoch, Braverman, Tugendhat and Hunt.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> My wife says your a twat by the way…


TBF, she does appear to have a thing for twats...


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 13, 2022)




----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

stavros said:


> That's true of a number of them though. I've heard different pronunciations of Badenoch, Braverman, Tugendhat and Hunt.


...especially Hunt.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

Particularly glad to see Zahawi out - horrible arrogant careerist prick. And to see Braverman likely to be for the chop next. The only downside is all the cunts who are still left. Is there no way they can all be eliminated?

Embarrassing for Hunt to do so disastrously after being the runner-up last time.


----------



## andysays (Jul 13, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




That answers my question of how many votes Zahawi and Hunt got between them - 43 - so we can see tomorrow where those votes go.

ETA and it appears that two of those who originally nominated Hunt didn't vote for him today


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

Zahawi will be curled up under the hay refusing to come out if his stables have aircon too.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2022)

I wonder how many will drop out before tomorrow's vote. 

Braverman, Tugendhat, and Badenoch would seem likely, leaving it to Sunak, Mordaunt, and Truss.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




If I have my sums right, that means Braverman had the highest proportion of shy voters, followed by Mordaunt, followed by Truss.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 13, 2022)

So , Zahawi's tactic of taking a promotion from Boris & then telling him to fuck off has led to Zahawi having to fuck off . He'll get 8 weeks as Chancellor as compo though.


----------



## andysays (Jul 13, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I wonder how many will drop out before tomorrow's vote.
> 
> Braverman, Tugendhat, and Badenoch would seem likely, leaving it to Sunak, Mordaunt, and Truss.



I would be really surprised if all three of those drop out so soon, TBH.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I wonder how many will drop out before tomorrow's vote.
> 
> Braverman, Tugendhat, and Badenoch would seem likely, leaving it to Sunak, Mordaunt, and Truss.


Badenoch comes over as too much of a zealot to drop out before she has to, though not like I'd know,


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

Mourdant has got the best website name.
No idea what her pitch is but it’s true for sure that her goodlooking-ness will be a factor, maybe especially now after everyone who cares about such things has spent years moaning about the prime minister’s bad hairdo.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

stavros said:


> That's true of a number of them though. I've heard different pronunciations of Badenoch, Braverman, Tugendhat and Hunt.


Badenoch is an historic district of the Scottish Highlands. I’ve been pronouncing her name that way in my head, as I haven’t yet heard it spoken. (Her name. I’ve heard Badenoch plenty of times).


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Embarrassing for Hunt to do so disastrously after being the runner-up last time.


The vote was fiddled last time so that he came second, so slightly misleading.


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Badenoch is an historic district of the Scottish Highlands. I’ve been pronouncing her name that way in my head, as I haven’t yet heard it spoken. (Her name. I’ve heard Badenoch plenty of times).


Her husband is Scotch, so I guess the proper pronunciation is the same.


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> Her husband is Scotch


Single malt or blended?


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Mourdant has got the best website name.


Far too phones4u, awful spiv, tsk.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> Mourdant has got the best website name.View attachment 332092
> No idea what her pitch is but it’s true for sure that her goodlooking-ness will be a factor, maybe especially now after everyone who cares about such things has spent years moaning about the prime minister’s bad hairdo.



She looks to me like the kind of woman - good-looking in a statuesque sort of way - who would remind most Tory members of matron from school. Seeing her in a swimming cossie on Splash must have short-circuited them a bit.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

existentialist said:


> TBF, she does appear to have a thing for twats...



Can't disagree with that. You'd get on famously


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> Her husband is Scotch, so I guess the proper pronunciation is the same.


Ah, you said they were all fucking idiots.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> The vote was fiddled last time so that he came second, so slightly misleading.



I'd not heard that. Surprised they needed to - his remainingness was surely enough to put the members off at that point?


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Badenoch is an historic district of the Scottish Highlands. I’ve been pronouncing her name that way in my head, as I haven’t yet heard it spoken. (Her name. I’ve heard Badenoch plenty of times).


I've a colleague with an 'ch' in the middle of his surname. I automatically pronounce it like in 'loch' but everyone looks at me funnily so think that's maybe not right. (Keep meaning to ask him.)


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 13, 2022)

Round 2 is tomorrow I assume?


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah, you said they were all fucking idiots.


Fucking jokers I said. Idiot joker cunts.


----------



## agricola (Jul 13, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I wonder how many will drop out before tomorrow's vote.
> 
> Braverman, Tugendhat, and Badenoch would seem likely, leaving it to Sunak, Mordaunt, and Truss.



I wouldn't be surprised if Truss drops out TBF, she seems to have pitched herself at the loon fringe but most of it hasn't backed her there.   Of the five below her Badenoch is more likely to pick up Zahawi and Braverman's votes I think, and then in comes down to a game of chicken between Badenoch and Truss over getting on to the last two (which I think Badenoch would win because of her support from the media types).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Sue said:


> I've a colleague with an 'ch' in the middle of his surname. I automatically pronounce it like in 'loch' but everyone looks at me funnily so think that's maybe not right. (Keep meaning to ask him.)


I used to pronounce Sandbach that way until I found out ts Sandbatch.  I still have to correct myself though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> Fucking jokers I said. Idiot joker cunts.


That’s right. I stand corrected.


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> She looks to me like the kind of woman - good-looking in a statuesque sort of way


She's five foot six. Hardly statuesque. Braverman's a six footer. She's statuesque.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

JimW said:


> Badenoch comes over as too much of a zealot to drop out before she has to, though not like I'd know,



Badenoch will be the repository of Barverman's vote won't she (assuming Braverman is next eliminated with Tugenhot staggering on by getting most of Hunt's supporters). I'd say she's got plenty of road to run yet.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> She's five foot six. Hardly statuesque. Braverman's a six footer. She's statuesque.


Is that what statuesque means? Height? I thought it was an elegant bearing, or suchlike.


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Is that what statuesque means? Height? I thought it was an elegant bearing, or suchlike.


Yes.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Badenoch will be the repository of Barverman's vote won't she (assuming Braverman is next eliminated with Tugenhot staggering on by getting most of Hunt's supporters). I'd say she's got plenty of road to run yet.


Sounds about right and you feel she's in this to speak her truth/swivel her eyes on whatever hustings are going.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Is that what statuesque means? Height? I thought it was an elegant bearing, or suchlike.


Means we're allowed to hoy them into Bristol docks.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

JimW said:


> Means we're allowed to hoy them into Bristol docks.


👌


----------



## stavros (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> No idea what her pitch is but it’s true for sure that her goodlooking-ness will be a factor


I briefly caught about 20 seconds of GBN discussion the other night, when they suggested whoever won the UK would have the least attractive world leader. Covering the important issues, as ever.


----------



## agricola (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I used to pronounce Sandbach that way until I found out ts Sandbatch.  I still have to correct myself though.



given the people from there find it annoying, Sandbach (as in the Welsh word for small) is perfectly acceptable


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

stavros said:


> I briefly caught about 20 seconds of GBN discussion the other night, when they suggested whoever won the UK would have the least attractive world leader. Covering the important issues, as ever.


Come on, Rishi is dishi, surely?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

JimW said:


> Sounds about right and you feel she's in this to speak her truth/swivel her eyes on whatever hustings are going.



100%. She's not running for leader, she's running to impose an ideology and reposition a particular brand of neo-liberalism economically and socially. Gove is right, in my view, that she's the one to watch - just not in the way he means.


----------



## agricola (Jul 13, 2022)

stavros said:


> I briefly caught about 20 seconds of GBN discussion the other night, when they suggested whoever won the UK would have the least attractive world leader. Covering the important issues, as ever.



as opposed to now, with our stale uncooked meatball rolled on the floor of a Swedish barbers of a leader?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2022)

stavros said:


> I briefly caught about 20 seconds of GBN discussion the other night, when they suggested whoever won the UK would have the least attractive world leader. Covering the important issues, as ever.



I've just flicked on GB News for about 2 mins, they were reading out e-mails hating on Mordaunt for being woke, then went to Calvin Robinson moaning about her wokeness.

Therefore, I hope she wins.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

agricola said:


> as opposed to now, with our stale uncooked meatball rolled on the floor of a Swedish barbers of a leader?


We need a real looker like Erdogan.


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I'd not heard that. Surprised they needed to - his remainingness was surely enough to put the members off at that point?


picking up only 5 votes from the other remainer, (Stewart - who had been lent votes to get rid of Raab) was highly suspicious, followed by getting more than half of Javid's.  Didnt want a Johnson v Gove run off.


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I've just flicked on GB News for about 2 mins, they were reading out e-mails hating on Mordaunt for being woke, then went to Calvin Robinson moaning about her wokeness.
> 
> Therefore, I hope she wins.


I hate* people who say 'hate on'. Are we American? No, no we're not. 

*Bit strong but it is a bit .


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> picking up only 5 votes from the other remainer, (Stewart - who had been lent votes to get rid of Raab) was highly suspicious, followed by getting more than half of Javid's.  Didnt want a Johnson v Gove run off.


I've no idea how you can remember this. I mean I did pay attention at the time but I've completely wiped all the detail from my brain.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

Sue said:


> I hate* people who say 'hate on'. Are we American? No, no we're not.
> 
> *Bit strong but it is a bit .


I love a phrasal verb and welcome new ones, definitely changes the sense and meaning to describe more accurately, and all with the addition of such a small complement.


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

JimW said:


> I love a phrasal verb and welcome new ones, definitely changes the sense and meaning to describe more accurately, and all with the addition of such a small complement.


There's always one...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 13, 2022)

So it's looking like  a white woman then, can't say I'm surprised, the Conservative members can just about get behind that...


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 13, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> But when I'm prime minister, which is more likely to happen, I won't give Boris Johnson a job.
> 
> Except maybe the job Edward Woodward gets given at the end of the Wicker Man.


I've not watched the Wicker Man, so I can only assume its one of _those_ jobs.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I've not watched the Wicker Man


Get out. You’re finished here.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Is that what statuesque means? Height? I thought it was an elegant bearing, or suchlike.





maomao said:


> Yes.



Not entirely. Height is indeed one of the usual elements of it, but along with gracefulness, stiff posture, etc., so it doesn't, I don't think, preclude using it about a woman who is handsome rather than pretty, athletic build, but not particularly tall.

But this is now discussing her looks in rather more detail than I had intended to. I meant only to point out that her attractiveness is of a type that seems tailormade for Telegraph Man.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Rishi isn’t tall.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 13, 2022)

He's a little bit small


----------



## Voley (Jul 13, 2022)

Isn't Sunak basically campaigning on an Austerity Pt 2 ticket? Gawd help us ...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

teqniq said:


> He's a little bit small


How tall is Starmer? It used to be said the shorter of two Prime Ministerial candidates usually loses.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Rishi isn’t tall.


Garden gnomesque, also a thing.


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

i don't think men can be statuesque can they? Like women can't be suave.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2022)

What is this discussion of height? I always go for the one in the sheepskin noseband.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 13, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Seeing her in a swimming cossie on Splash must have short-circuited them a bit.


That belly flop was a thing of beauty


----------



## agricola (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Rishi isn’t tall.





teqniq said:


> He's a little bit small



alarmingly small - images of him look like they've been using the same convention in ancient Egyptian art whereby children were drawn as miniature adults


----------



## brogdale (Jul 13, 2022)

Note to self; if I ever find myself contesting for the leadership of the Tory party.... don't select Ester Mcvey as a "dream ticket" running partner


----------



## teqniq (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> How tall is Starmer? It used to be said the shorter of two Prime Ministerial candidates usually loses.


dunno i was going for a wordplay on this:


----------



## existentialist (Jul 13, 2022)

teqniq said:


> He's a little bit small


Gnomuesque


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> That belly flop was a thing of beauty
> View attachment 332112


Makes a change from trickle down.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

JimW said:


> Garden gnomesque, also a thing.


----------



## JimW (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 332116


Pretty fly for a Winchester guy


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

We’ve done this before, it didn’t go brilliantly last time I tried but, he’s average height for a man of Indian descent.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> We’ve done this before, it didn’t go brilliantly last time I tried but, he’s average height for a man of Indian descent.


Yeah, good point, and I didn’t feel great talking about appearance anyway. So I knew I was on dodgy ground.


----------



## philosophical (Jul 13, 2022)

Mordaunt went to a comp.
That ought to work in her favour when she is PM battling Labour in the next General Election.
On the other hand she voted leave, reckons it has happened, and yet has no suggestion as to how to deal with the present democratic deficit following the referendum, nor what to do about the land border in Ireland.
So that makes her yet another Tory princess of darkness moron.
Starmer has made a pitch for that moron territory, but at least he voted remain.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2022)




----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 13, 2022)

"It was like the pandemic, but with guns."


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

Hey, philosophical , is there some way you can bring up the Irish border?


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> How tall is Starmer? It used to be said the shorter of two Prime Ministerial candidates usually loses.


5 foot eight and a half. He must have felt the half was important to get it on his wikipedia page. Sunak's 5'7", an inch taller than Penny "the statue" Mourdant.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2022)

The39thStep said:


>



it's a great pity that the only pictures of her gran are watermarked stock ones


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> Sunak's 5'7", an inch taller than Penny "the statue"


Post in thread 'Rishi Sunak'
Rishi Sunak


----------



## marty21 (Jul 13, 2022)

.


danny la rouge said:


> How tall is Starmer? It used to be said the shorter of two Prime Ministerial candidates usually loses.


I've met him briefly , he's short , much shorter than me & I'm 5 ft 10.  I reckon he is on a par with Rishi.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2022)

I'm 5'9"

I could win this.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> i don't think men can be statuesque can they? Like women can't be suave.


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

bimble said:


> i don't think men can be statuesque can they? *Like women can't be suave.*


Speak for yourself. I'm suave AND sophisticated.


----------



## bimble (Jul 13, 2022)

Sue said:


> Speak for yourself. I'm suave AND sophisticated.


Well I’m dashing and urbane. But yeah language is a funny thing.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 13, 2022)




----------



## philosophical (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Hey, philosophical , is there some way you can bring up the Irish border?



Funny you should mention that.
We have 'got brexit done' is being said.
'Sort out the protocol' repeated over and over.
'There are issues around Northern Ireland' is often repeated.
What isn't suggested, by Starmer as much as anybody else, are practical ground level solutions.
It is as if once it is acknowledged as a problem, the acknowledgement in itself is some kind of solution, the issue is then wafted away again.

For those who say it doesn't matter here is some coverage from yesterday from the actual locality:









						Twelfth of July: Thousands take part in Orange Order parades
					

This year marked a return to the full traditional programme after the Covid-19 pandemic.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Here is some more:



But the raising of the issue is wrong because I am some kind of obsessive (which is true)?  My obsession is related to present day reality, not some poseur right wing or lexit fantasy land, but the here and now and the fact the UK voted to leave the EU.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 13, 2022)




----------



## Elpenor (Jul 13, 2022)

Badenoch to come third, the column inches she’s getting suggest she may be in for a fairly senior cabinet post - business, transport or given her comments on policing priorities could she even be home sec?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 13, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Badenoch to come third, the column inches she’s getting suggest she may be in for a fairly senior cabinet post - business, transport or given her comments on policing priorities could she even be home sec?


Yeah, the also rans know that there will have to be a proper cull of the Johnson make-weights in cab.


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 13, 2022)

So when does the reanimated Eddie Waring come on to oversee this


JimW said:


> When do they get to play their joker?


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> How tall is Starmer? It used to be said the shorter of two Prime Ministerial candidates usually loses.


According to Google he's 5'8" so only an inch in it if Rishi Rich is actually telling the truth he looks short for 5'7" to me.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> I'm 5'9"
> 
> I could win this.


6'5" and some.

Bow down before me, minions.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

philosophical said:


> Funny you should mention that.
> We have 'got brexit done' is being said.
> 'Sort out the protocol' repeated over and over.
> 'There are issues around Northern Ireland' is often repeated.
> ...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 13, 2022)

It’s a Martian band.


----------



## prunus (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s a Martian band.



Chapeau.


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


>



That's the scariest thing I've seen in my whole fucking life. 

It also always shocks me just how bad orange bands are musically.


----------



## Sue (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> That's the scariest thing I've seen in my whole fucking life.
> 
> It also always shocks me just how bad orange bands are musically.


TBF, that's the least of the problem with them.


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2022)

Sue said:


> TBF, that's the least of the problem with them.


Well I know but you'd think they could keep time. It's the incompetence of it all.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> That's the scariest thing I've seen in my whole fucking life.
> 
> It also always shocks me just how bad orange bands are musically.


They only practise once a year


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 13, 2022)

From Derry Girls:



> *Mary:* Already? It's started already?
> *Gerry:* I think it's just a rehearsal, love.
> *Mary:* They've been playing the same three songs since 1795. What do they need to rehearse for?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 13, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Badenoch to come third, the column inches she’s getting suggest she may be in for a fairly senior cabinet post - business, transport or given her comments on policing priorities could she even be home sec?


Oh, Lord, please no. Home Secretaries _get_ weird as it is, let's not have another one who starts out weird.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> That's the scariest thing I've seen in my whole fucking life.
> 
> It also always shocks me just how bad orange bands are musically.


You should see resistance to rhythms


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 13, 2022)

thinking about my old economics stuff about perfect markets and consumer choice meaning we get the best perceived value and shit . Its a pretty limited choice there for tory consumer. This proves capitalism doesn't work

/revolution


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Oh, Lord, please no. Home Secretaries _get_ weird as it is, let's not have another one who starts out weird.


They get more right wing and authoritarian too. Home Secretary Badenoch may end up deporting herself.


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2022)

The latest forecast from that forecasting bloke, who seems to have revealed this version first on Peston. His previous forecasts for this contest have remained close enough to reality that I am still bothering to post the updated ones here.


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2022)

By the way I was tidying up my pandemic archive earlier and came across this article from 2021. I didnt even attempt to gain access to the whole thing, the headline was enough.









						‘Rishi Sunak was the main person responsible for Covid’s second wave’
					

The government had been warned about the consequences of a second wave but, by the end of July, the scientists on Sage were reporting that they had no confidenc




					www.thetimes.co.uk


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> So what was Johnson on about today in PMQ's when he said his successor might be elected by acclamation, so this could be his last PMQs? And then made a sort of farewell speech after which another PMQs would make him look like the man who left and then had to come back for his hat.
> 
> Until he mentioned acclamation I thought it the least likely outcome this time round. And the only person I can think of being acclaimed is Sunak who is loathed by Johnson and his chums.


Should add that when this was reported on R4 WatO it was immediately followed by a package on Mordaunt's launch, like a bit of heavy handed drama signalling.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 13, 2022)

elbows said:


> By the way I was tidying up my pandemic archive earlier and came across this article from 2021. I didnt even attempt to gain access to the whole thing, the headline was enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was thinking of that too.


----------



## wow (Jul 13, 2022)

existentialist said:


> I think you just read their near-to-last post. I don't think they're going to like it here.


I like it so far. Is this a closed shop or something?


----------



## spitfire (Jul 13, 2022)

wow said:


> I like it so far. Is this a closed shop or something?



No, crack on.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 13, 2022)

Have no idea which twat will be the least bad twat but the thought of another PM being referred to by their given name most of the time is a pretty horrible one. So for that reason I hope it's not Sunak.


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 13, 2022)

elbows said:


> By the way I was tidying up my pandemic archive earlier and came across this article from 2021. I didnt even attempt to gain access to the whole thing, the headline was enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Archived here if anyone does want it.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 13, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Have no idea which twat will be the least bad twat but the thought of another PM being referred to by their given name most of the time is a pretty horrible one. So for that reason I hope it's not Sunak.


PENNY


----------



## xenon (Jul 13, 2022)

Mordaunt is gonna win. Just putting it on record.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 13, 2022)

This is excellent on the insanity of the tax cuts/shrink the state/retro Thatcherism malady that is the Tory leadership election and the collapse of intellectual and serious politics within the Tory Party. As the article demonstrates even the most rabid right wingers recognise the need for state intervention and insourcing, yet the Tories remain moored to the neo-liberalism of the 70’s









						Britain needs Macmillan, not Thatcher
					

None of the Tory candidates inspires hope for the future




					unherd.com


----------



## wow (Jul 13, 2022)

spitfire said:


> No, crack on.


Cheers. 


xenon said:


> Mordaunt is gonna win. Just putting it on record.


Not going to happen.

One single reason: Optics and future memes from her bellyflop appearance on Splash render her candidacy untenable.

Every wrong word: bellyflop
Every bad policy: bellyflop
Every mistake: bellyflop

It makes you an international laughing stock, and they’ve just got rid of one of those. 

Her appearance on that show hasn’t been widely republished through the tory media yet, but it will do when she becomes the binary candidate.  After that, curtains.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 13, 2022)

wow said:


> Cheers.
> 
> Not going to happen.
> 
> ...


That's a pretty cynical view of the sophisticated thinking of the Tory electorate. So probably right.  

Except, except - I reckon most of them are so old they won't be susceptible to memes on social media, or even know what social media is.

It will work fine on the run-up to the general though.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 13, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Have no idea which twat will be the least bad twat but the thought of another PM being referred to by their given name most of the time is a pretty horrible one. So for that reason I hope it's not Sunak.



Word. I can't abide the amount of people who are like 'Boris' this and 'Boris' that. Fuck off with your matey first name terms.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 13, 2022)

His name is Alexander.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 14, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> His name is Alexander.



Al to his friends/wives


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 14, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> His name is Alexander.


His name is Johnson. Unless you're on first name terms with him since childhood I don't reckon you'd be calling him Alex. 
Anyway, public school chaps are used to being referred to by surname.


----------



## wow (Jul 14, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> That's a pretty cynical view of the sophisticated thinking of the Tory electorate. So probably right.
> 
> Except, except - I reckon most of them are so old they won't be susceptible to memes on social media, or even know what social media is.
> 
> It will work fine on the run-up to the general though.


I didn’t say social media. I said the tory media.

It’ll take a while for it to bubble up to Rothermere’s desk, but once it does it’s game over


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 14, 2022)

wow said:


> I didn’t say social media. I said the tory media.
> 
> It’ll take a while for it to bubble up to Rothermere’s desk, but once it does it’s game over


Point taken. Not sure though that newspapers have the same impact - less impetus and insistence, so not necessarily going to override preferences. 

Who is Rothermere's preferred candidate?


----------



## tommers (Jul 14, 2022)

If we have somebody called Mrs Mordaunt as prime minister then that really is Palpatine kind of levels of evil hiding in plain sight. What do we expect to happen? Its every villain from every film. The woman from the Phillip Pullman books, the head of the ministry from Harry Potter, a Victorian workhouse owner from a Charles Dickens novel. She's Judge Death, the Greek god of the underworld... I could go on.


----------



## tommers (Jul 14, 2022)

Like fucking hell, portals opening around the country, demons issuing forth....


----------



## wow (Jul 14, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Point taken. Not sure though that newspapers have the same impact - less impetus and insistence, so not necessarily going to override preferences.
> 
> Who is Rothermere's preferred candidate?


Agreed. A dying influence, but still very much alive in a certain demographic. 

Expect a strong persuasion for Sunak from the Tory media.


----------



## JimW (Jul 14, 2022)

wow said:


> Cheers.
> 
> Not going to happen.
> 
> ...


Nah, Cameron fucked a pig but it's not that which did for him.


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

wow said:


> Expect a strong persuasion for Sunak from the Tory media.


err. the exact opposite of this is happening though isnt it.









						Daily Mail out to stop ‘traitor’ Sunak as Tory rivals vie for press backing
					

Analysis: newspapers still hold great power, and pro-Johnson Mail has set out its ‘anyone but Rishi’ stall




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 14, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> This is excellent on the insanity of the tax cuts/shrink the state/retro Thatcherism malady that is the Tory leadership election and the collapse of intellectual and serious politics within the Tory Party. As the article demonstrates even the most rabid right wingers recognise the need for state intervention and insourcing, yet the Tories remain moored to the neo-liberalism of the 70’s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, much of this stuff on taxes is not really being pushed by capital. Which is not to say that capital won't take advantage of any cuts but (i) its Tory members dreams driving this nonsense (ii) its going to much easier to talk this shit then enact it.


> Businesses are sceptical about the need for an immediate cut to corporation tax, however, arguing that it is a tax levied on profits at a time when many companies are facing recession. “A lot of companies would not see any benefit of corporation tax cuts as they are not making any money,” said Stephen Phipson, head of Make UK, which represents manufacturing in the UK. Claire Walker, co-executive director of the British Chambers of Commerce, said: “Businesses are not interested in headlines; they want realistic levels of tax cuts and, while a reduction in corporation tax would be welcomed by firms, the immediate need is still great.”


Likewise with much of the environmental stuff. For various reasons large parts of capital has been moving this way for some time. 


> Lord Adair Turner, the former chair of the Committee on Climate Change (CCC), and former head of the CBI employers’ organisation, now chair of the Energy Transitions Commission, told the Guardian: “I definitely think businesses want to continue with net zero. Most businesses have very clear net zero targets, and most are aware of technologies that get us there [to net zero].
> 
> “What businesses want is continuity of policy. That enables them to plan. They hate instability of policy, when one government takes one direction then another government takes a different one. They want long term targets, and want to know where they’re going. There is wide acceptance of net zero.”


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Who is Rothermere's preferred candidate?


Dm has gone full Truss but the telegraph looks Mordant.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 14, 2022)

xenon said:


> Mordaunt is gonna win. Just putting it on record.



It certainly looks that way, she's got the momentum to be in the last two, and she's the members' choice, something big would have to happen to stop her now.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 14, 2022)

The members want their ‘Iron Lady’ back.


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

lol


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 14, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Which is not to say that capital won't take advantage of any cuts but (i) its Tory members dreams driving this nonsense (ii) its going to much easier to talk this shit then enact it.



It’s not even Tory Party members so much. The last polling I’ve seen on their members (Tuesday by Opinium) has cost of living, refugees/Rwanda, Ukraine and the NHS all ahead of ‘grow the economy’ (which I’m assuming includes tax cuts). But your central point - that even capital believes the proposals are economically illiterate is key to understanding just how out of step their MPs are with the real world and the actual economy.

On your second point agree completely, as the article makes clear - there really isn’t much of the state left that could easily be cut or sold off.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> lol




Brexit means full English? No hash browns


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 14, 2022)

wow said:


> Expect a strong persuasion for Sunak from the Tory media.



Andrew Pierce, the Mail's consultant editor, speaking on the Sky News Press Review last night, said they haven't backed anyone yet, when they do it will certainly not be Sunak, and he clearly thinks it will end-up being a race between Sunak & Mordaunt. 



bimble said:


> Dm has gone full Truss but the telegraph looks Mordant.


Whilst the front page leads with Truss' appeal to the right of the party, the rag hasn't yet declared who they are backing, they are fence sitting and are likely to do so until the final two are decided, no point backing someone that isn't on the final ballot paper. Judging by their leader column the only problem they have with Mordaunt is over trans rights, which is not going to be a deciding matter in this. 

They probably want Truss, but if it's a choice between Mordaunt and Sunak, they will be backing Mordaunt.


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Andrew Pierce, the Mail's consultant editor, speaking on the Sky News Press Review last night, said they haven't backed anyone yet, when they do it will certainly not be Sunak, and he clearly thinks it will end-up being a race between Sunak & Mordaunt.
> 
> 
> Whilst the front page leads with Truss' appeal to the right of the party, the rag hasn't yet declared who they are backing, they are fence sitting and are likely to do so until the final two are decided, no point backing someone that isn't on the final ballot paper. Judging by their leader column the only problem they have with Mordaunt is over trans rights, which is not going to be a deciding matter in this.
> ...





Nah have a look at it, they aren't fence sitting they're very clearly still trying to make truss happen but will shift as soon as they accept that isn't going to work and move to next best non-sunak thing.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 14, 2022)

Penny pinching the logo


----------



## existentialist (Jul 14, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Point taken. Not sure though that newspapers have the same impact - less impetus and insistence, so not necessarily going to override preferences.
> 
> Who is Rothermere's preferred candidate?


Johnson


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 14, 2022)

Truss has always looked brainless, but borrowing more to finance tax cuts when the country is already deep in the red thanks to 400 Billion of covid costs is approaching Trumpian levels of thick:

From the spectator (sorry) article: Liz Truss on taking on Sunak and what she's do in No. 10



> Her pitch for No. 10 is simple: to be the most convincing tax-cutter in the contest and the person who can beat the former chancellor. ‘I opposed these tax rises from the start and I spoke out against the tax rises at the time. So I’m not a Johnny-come-lately to this agenda,’ she says when we meet again this week in her parliamentary office. ‘I’m a low-tax Conservative. I believe that the right thing for us, in the very difficult global economic situation we face, is to not be raising taxes.’
> 
> What sets her apart from the other Tory hopefuls pledging tax cuts is her plan to pay for them. ‘Covid was a one-off crisis. The debt that we accumulated as a result of that, the £400 billion we spent, should be seen as a long-term debt – like a war debt – and needs to be longer-term,’ she says. ‘I don’t agree with the Treasury orthodoxy of immediately seeking to pay that back and balance the books and damage economic growth.’
> 
> In other words, she would borrow to finance her tax cuts. Borrowing, she says, that would spur extra growth (and, by extension, tax receipts). She would cut the size of government too.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Yes, much of this stuff on taxes is not really being pushed by capital. Which is not to say that capital won't take advantage of any cuts but (i) its Tory members dreams driving this nonsense (ii) its going to much easier to talk this shit then enact it.
> 
> Likewise with much of the environmental stuff. For various reasons large parts of capital has been moving this way for some time.


I’m going to really put paid to any urban credibility I have left now and say that I know Adair. He is a great example of somebody running boards in the heart of capital that is a passionate believer in the need for business to take a lead in tackling climate change and being socially responsible. Of course, it’s all from a deeply liberal perspective with all the limitations that implies. But it still backs up what you’re saying — capital itself wants a secure and sustainable environment that allows it to make predictable profit, and it wants a world that is comfortable and nice to live in. It wants workers that don’t create headaches but are properly educated and have housing and services. It wants a regulatory environment that provides consumer confidence and stability. It really doesn’t mind paying tax if the tax is paying for these things — not least because to pay tax, you first have to make profit and if you’re making profit then you’re happy.  The halls of capital despaired of Johnson and despises most of his potential successors. That’s why all these comfortable London boroughs are threatening to turn LibDem


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 14, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> Truss has always looked brainless, but borrowing more to finance tax cuts when the country is already deep in the red thanks to 400 Billion of covid costs is approaching Trumpian levels of thick:
> 
> From the spectator (sorry) article: Liz Truss on taking on Sunak and what she's do in No. 10



To be fair to Truss borrowing to invest is exactly the right approach. I also think her understanding of covid costs is correct. But the idea that you borrow from the market to hand money to capital in the form of corporation tax cuts and lower taxes is insane, and is 100% guaranteed to increase inflation. Another fuckwit


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

Stupid but just now is when I learned that when the gov borrows money it does it largely from pension funds, giving them iou bonds in exchange for cash, why do the pension funds agree to it though? If I had a pension I probably wouldn’t lend it to liz tbh.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Stupid but just now is when I learned that when the gov borrows money it does it largely from pension funds, giving them iou bonds in exchange for cash, why do the pension funds agree to it though? If I had a pension I probably wouldn’t lend it to liz tbh.



The logic of money as we understand it breaks down completely at this scale. Pension funds aren't losing anything in this exchange, just swapping one liquid asset for another. Not like lending your mate a tenner, where you can't then go to the bar and get yourself a couple of pints on the strength of that bloke over there owes me a tenner and soon as I get it back it's yours mate.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Stupid but just now is when I learned that when the gov borrows money it does it largely from pension funds, giving them iou bonds in exchange for cash, why do the pension funds agree to it though? If I had a pension I probably wouldn’t lend it to liz tbh.



Pension funds are required to hold a certain amount of government bonds, because they are very low risk and this helps ensures the funds can meet their liabilities. The requirement is not without debate in financial circles though.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Stupid but just now is when I learned that when the gov borrows money it does it largely from pension funds, giving them iou bonds in exchange for cash, why do the pension funds agree to it though? If I had a pension I probably wouldn’t lend it to liz tbh.


Pension funds need a stable, predictable, secure source of income to pay to their existing pensioners, whose pensions are known quantities. Government bonds provide that.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Pension funds need a stable, predictable, secure source of income to pay to their existing pensioners, whose pensions are known quantities. Government bonds provide that.



Except when the bonds have a negative rate, although that is now apparently a thing of the past.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Except when the bonds have a negative rate, although that is now apparently a thing of the past.


We never really got there in this country, although there was a huge amount of hand wringing over it during the last few years. I have no doubt that no lessons will be learnt from the near miss and we will now just carry on regardless. 

To be honest, I think in truth that pension schemes have no business buying low yield government bonds and should instead be concentrating on a mix of investment quality, high yield and equities. But that doesn’t sit well with modern day mark-to-market balance sheet valuations so here we are.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

Lord Frost dissing Mordaunt this morning, coming out for Truss


----------



## Supine (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Lord Frost dissing Mordaunt this morning, coming out for Truss



I’ve just seen him described as Shit-Midas which made me grin.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Stupid but just now is when I learned that when the gov borrows money it does it largely from pension funds, giving them iou bonds in exchange for cash, why do the pension funds agree to it though? If I had a pension I probably wouldn’t lend it to liz tbh.



At that level, money is made up: it doesn't really exist. It's only the fact that everyone continues to abide by the rule that you can't just add as many noughts as you want to the end of your bank balance that keeps us from the complete global collapse of the financial system.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)




----------



## philosophical (Jul 14, 2022)

That Truss is on the television in front of me. It is surreal just how shit she is.
Seriously shit squared, appalling, like hearing a speech from a vacuum.
At least a vacuum has interesting scientific properties.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 14, 2022)

abhorred by all things natural


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

She wants to get farmers to grow food.


----------



## A380 (Jul 14, 2022)

Penny Mordant is wearing Submariners' Dolphins in a few pictures. They don't normally give those out in cornflakes packets. Not that she isn't still tory scum or anything but she must be a bit competent at something. Any naval (or wider military) urbs know more?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

Isn't she a naval reserve? 

I think Tom Tugendhat is the only one with serious military experience, he speaks Arabic and got shot in the chin in Iraq, and has done lots of stuff on the ground in Afghanistan with military intelligence.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Isn't she a naval reserve?
> 
> I think Tom Tugendhat is the only one with serious military experience, he speaks Arabic and got shot in the chin in Iraq, and has done lots of stuff on the ground in Afghanistan with military intelligence.



FAO Iraqis: please aim higher in future.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Isn't she a naval reserve?
> 
> I think Tom Tugendhat is the only one with serious military experience, he speaks Arabic and got shot in the chin in Iraq, and has done lots of stuff on the ground in Afghanistan with military intelligence.



Yes, and for some reason a honorary captain.


----------



## A380 (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Isn't she a naval reserve?
> 
> I think Tom Tugendhat is the only one with serious military experience, he speaks Arabic and got shot in the chin in Iraq, and has done lots of stuff on the ground in Afghanistan with military intelligence.


Yes, she is a naval reservist.  I didn't know that about Tugendhat.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

As for military intelligence in Afghanistan, not sure I'd be putting that on my CV tbh. Unless he was working for the Taliban in which case he's clearly played an absolute blinder.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> FAO Iraqis: please aim higher in future.



He was shot by British forces from a helicopter who thought he was Iraqi because he was in disguise.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 14, 2022)

A380 said:


> Penny Mordant is wearing Submariners' Dolphins in a few pictures. They don't normally give those out in cornflakes packets. Not that she isn't still tory scum or anything but she must be a bit competent at something. Any naval (or wider military) urbs know more?
> 
> View attachment 332221


There's something a bit "Hunger Games" about this photo.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 14, 2022)

A380 said:


> Penny Mordant is wearing Submariners' Dolphins in a few pictures. They don't normally give those out in cornflakes packets. Not that she isn't still tory scum or anything but she must be a bit competent at something. Any naval (or wider military) urbs know more?
> 
> View attachment 332221



Lots of speculation and guesses on this thread but it is opaque to say the least.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 14, 2022)

Lead story on Sky News - ugly on so many levels this - what a shit fest  - not new but the fact this is now going to be how they try and bring Penny down and the press compliant is yet another disgrace









						Conservative leadership race: Penny Mordaunt suffers first setback of campaign as MPs attack her stance on trans issues
					

One supporter of rival contender Suella Braverman is said to have been enraged over a bill that replaced the word "woman" with "pregnant person".




					news.sky.com


----------



## Raheem (Jul 14, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> FAO Iraqis: please aim higher in future.


Cabinet level, at least.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Tuggrnhat won’t win because he has a funny name. I have a funny name so I know, people don’t like things they can’t spell. When I did telesales they made me lie and pretend to have a normal name.


My grandfather and father changed our name so that English people could say it because English people are literally the most stupid people in the world at pronouncing foreign names.


----------



## prunus (Jul 14, 2022)

Dom Traynor said:


> My grandfather and father changed our name so that English people could say it because English people are literally the most stupid people in the world at pronouncing foreign names.



To be fair many non-English speakers have trouble pronouncing English names too - while we English are certainly often unhappily insular regarding foreign languages, this is a wider issue. Try getting a French speaker to say Walthamstow for instance (much hilarity had at a recent family gathering with this one for the French contingent of the family).


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Lead story on Sky News - ugly on so many levels this - what a shit fest  - not new but the fact this is now going to be how they try and bring Penny down and the press compliant is yet another disgrace
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like the honesty of the headline but they could have taken it further:

'Mordaunt suffers first setback of campaign: us cunts throwing stupid shit at her'


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

A380 said:


> Penny Mordant is wearing Submariners' Dolphins in a few pictures. They don't normally give those out in cornflakes packets. Not that she isn't still tory scum or anything but she must be a bit competent at something. Any naval (or wider military) urbs know more?
> 
> View attachment 332221



Chap behind her clearly thinking 'fucking _brooch_'


----------



## tommers (Jul 14, 2022)

teuchter said:


> There's something a bit "Hunger Games" about this photo.


Does Lady Mordaunt remind you of a villain in a film? Odd that. (it's cos she's a fundamental, eternal force of evil that has existed throughout the eons and recurred in folk tales, oral histories and their modern equivalents for thousands of years)


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

Mordaunt gifted her opponents an attack line on trans issues by rowing back her previous positions and flat out lying about her past pro-trans actions on legislation. Probably should just have said its complicated i’ll leave it to my equalities minister or something.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> He was shot by British forces from a helicopter who thought he was Iraqi because he was in disguise.



LOL what a stupid way to get shot. What a prick.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Tuggrnhat won’t win because he has a funny name. I have a funny name so I know, people don’t like things they can’t spell. When I did telesales they made me lie and pretend to have a normal name.



And it's probably a little late in the game for him to rebrand himself as Tommy Tugger.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Mordaunt gifted her opponents an attack line on trans issues by rowing back her previous positions and flat out lying about her past pro-trans actions on legislation. Probably should just have said its complicated i’ll leave it to my equalities minister or something.


Who would have followed it up with something staggeringly offensive to at least two marginalised groups, if previous Tory equalities ministers are anything to go by...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Lead story on Sky News - ugly on so many levels this - what a shit fest  - not new but the fact this is now going to be how they try and bring Penny down and the press compliant is yet another disgrace
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who could have foreseen that this 'they're erasing the word woman' crap would be weaponised as a dog whistle by the right?

Everyone, that's who.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I like the honesty of the headline but they could have taken it further:
> 
> 'Mordaunt suffers first setback of campaign: us cunts throwing stupid shit at her'



"Past Evidence of Tolerant Position Could Doom Tory Leadership Bid'


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 14, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> LOL what a stupid way to get shot. What a prick.



He says the Iraqis hit him - twice - but the rescue helicopter missed when it fired at him.

_"We were in a very, very small group. We had been fighting a nine, ten-hour running battle. I was shot through the chin and the top of the chest, but that hit the body armour so it was OK,” he told The Sunday Times.

His special forces unit called in a helicopter for evacuation, but when it arrived it mistook them for the enemy. He said if it was not for the gunner’s bad aim, he would have been killed._









						Tom Tugendhat highlights back story in military in pitch for top job
					

‘I’m used to friendly fire,’ he said, recounting a near-death experience in Iraq.




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## JimW (Jul 14, 2022)

Dom Traynor said:


> My grandfather and father changed our name so that English people could say it because English people are literally the most stupid people in the world at pronouncing foreign names.


Come to China, the Han majority don't even bother to attempt the names of fellow citizens of other ethnicities properly, and some like the Mongols used to run the place! Also force all the different Han languages into one pronunciation.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> He says the Iraqis hit him - twice - but the rescue helicopter missed when it fired at him.
> 
> _"We were in a very, very small group. We had been fighting a nine, ten-hour running battle. I was shot through the chin and the top of the chest, but that hit the body armour so it was OK,” he told The Sunday Times.
> 
> ...



Thank goodness his comrades were also useless fuckwits.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)

The knives are out for Penny


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

saw this yesterday, poll of tory members, don't know how representative it is but would suggest that the voters they need are not actually interested at all in the 'culture war' talking points that are being churned up all day long by the press. 



Impression I get is that people even tory party members want to hear their plans about how people are gong to heat their homes and buy food and really do not have time for a stupid punch and judy show about the definition of the word woman right now.
they do care quite a lot about people in boats though.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> saw this yesterday, poll of tory members, don't know how representative it is but would suggest that the voters they need are not actually interested at all in the 'culture war' talking points that are being churned up all day long by the press. they do care quite a lot about people in boats though.




Just goes to show how effective the press has been at talking up the migration issue and playing down the crisis in the NHS. Tories are old, how have have they not noticed from the evidence of their own senses that healthcare is effectively in a state of slow-motion collapse?


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 14, 2022)

Until they get down to the last two, they only really care about the votes of the 360 Tory MP's I would imagine. There may be some appealing to the wider party but other than Rishi Rich who is probably a shoe-in, they need to get into those last two when maybe they will start toning down the crazy and saying stuff that your average Party membership might care about.


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Until they get down to the last two, they only really care about the votes of the 360 Tory MP's I would imagine. There may be some appealing to the wider party but other than Rishi Rich who is probably a shoe-in, they need to get into those last two when maybe they will start toning down the crazy and saying stuff that your average Party membership might care about.


Even if they're just talking to eachother it still doesn't explain why we've been treated to a day by day forensic on 'what does this candidate think the definition of the word woman is', instead of what if anything have they said about the price of food / fuel or the NHS. 
 It looks like either they or the newspapers are not reading the room.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> It looks like either they or the newspapers are not reading the room.


No say it is not so!


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> No say it is not so!


massive failed opportunity though, if they're all warbling on about trans issues when they could gain a lot of support by just saying lets talk about that later we are in a worsening cost of living emergency here's my plan for your winter fuel bill instead?
another one


----------



## Cerv (Jul 14, 2022)

tommers said:


> Does Lady Mordaunt remind you of a villain in a film? Odd that. (it's cos she's a fundamental, eternal force of evil that has existed throughout the eons and recurred in folk tales, oral histories and their modern equivalents for thousands of years)


Wasn’t she the villain in the Sylvester McCoy 80s Cyberman episodes?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)




----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

It seems mad, looking at it, that they are not all talking about the fact that it will cost double as much money this coming winter to heat yr home as it did last year.
Even if they think that they only need to appeal to rich people at the moment, deal with the rest of the population later, it still seems strange. 
But then maybe they are refusing to mention it because the only possible policies would sound 'socialist' so best say nothing.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)




----------



## pesh (Jul 14, 2022)




----------



## marty21 (Jul 14, 2022)

.


teuchter said:


> There's something a bit "Hunger Games" about this photo.


Another better way to decide the new PM


----------



## DownwardDog (Jul 14, 2022)

A380 said:


> Penny Mordant is wearing Submariners' Dolphins in a few pictures. They don't normally give those out in cornflakes packets. Not that she isn't still tory scum or anything but she must be a bit competent at something. Any naval (or wider military) urbs know more?
> 
> View attachment 332221



She was an Acting Sub-Lieutenant in RN Reserves ( ie crossed the Solent in a RHIB). Then she promoted herself to Captain when she was at the MoD. She absolutely has not qualified for or earned the Submariner's Dolphins.


----------



## xenon (Jul 14, 2022)

Just so I got this right. 

Mordaunt is too woke or something.

Sunac, the billionaire with no WC friends, is too socialist because he won't immediately slash corporation tax in the middle of a financial shit storm.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 14, 2022)

Hancock showing off his killer lines, no wonder he's a hit with the ladies.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 14, 2022)

Oh look. This story has just resurfaced from Feb 2021, about Mordaunt taking sooty money:








						Minister Accepts Donation from Chair of ‘UK’s Principal Climate Science Denial Campaign Group’ – Byline Times
					

The coffers of a senior Conservative MP have been boosted by a company owned by a man who has questioned climate change, Sam Bright reveals




					bylinetimes.com
				




"There are conflicting claims from various publications about whether Terence Mordaunt and Penny Mordaunt are related."


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

Twitter's totally saturated with anti-Mordaunt stuff today: 'She said something not sufficiently nasty about trans people, waaah!' She must be going to win if they're that keen to bring her down.

I'm happy to see more dug up like the donation business above about how appalling she is, so we know what we're dealing with here. But saying 'trans women are women' a while ago and now being a bit shifty about whether she said it or not just isn't going to cut it, when she's up against such a strong field of sociopathic maniacs.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 14, 2022)

Suella Braverman is out.

Sunak - 101
Mordaunt - 83
Truss - 64
Badenoch - 49
Tugendhat - 32


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 14, 2022)

Good.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)

Second round

Sunak – 101
Mordaunt – 83
Truss – 64
Badenoch – 49
Tugendhat – 32
Braverman –  27

Braverman eliminated.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 14, 2022)

Hancock is backing Sunak , desperate for a comeback .


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 14, 2022)

Badenoch and Tugendhat have the next three days to work out that they haven't got a hope in hell in getting into the top two, so may as well withdraw.


----------



## bcuster (Jul 14, 2022)

If she's Navy, she can't be all bad, can she?


----------



## strung out (Jul 14, 2022)

Farage's endorsement yesterday worked out well for Braverman then.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 14, 2022)

bcuster said:


> If she's Navy, she can't be all bad, can she?



They said that about Prince Andrew


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

Badenoch could conceivably hoover up enough Braverman votes to leapfrog Truss, especially if she can at the same time steal any votes from Truss.


----------



## killer b (Jul 14, 2022)

Interesting thread here which bears out the 'no-one actually gives a shit about the culture war stuff you've all got at the front of your campaigns' impression I've been getting from the race so far:


----------



## steveseagull (Jul 14, 2022)

Well. I am glad this swivel eyed loon is out of the game


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Badenoch could conceivably hoover up enough Braverman votes to leapfrog Truss, especially if she can at the same time steal any votes from Truss.



I'm sure there will be all sorts of backstage shenanigans. I would think the swivel-eyed wing in particular would be keen to avoid Sunak vs Mordaunt because both of them are functionally sane and we can't have that.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

Tugendhat refusing to bow out voluntarily and hopes to go viral off the TV debates.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 14, 2022)

bcuster said:


> If she's Navy, she can't be all bad, can she?




She’s not in the navy, she’s a reserve that does fuck all.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> She’s not in the navy, she’s a reserve that does fuck all.



As opposed to the real navy, which does fuck all.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> As opposed to the real navy, which does fuck all.


But they do with with STYYYYLE!

_Camp dance routine_


----------



## A380 (Jul 14, 2022)

DownwardDog said:


> She was an Acting Sub-Lieutenant in RN Reserves ( ie crossed the Solent in a RHIB). Then she promoted herself to Captain when she was at the MoD. She absolutely has not qualified for or earned the Submariner's Dolphins.


Ta.


----------



## JimW (Jul 14, 2022)

So Tugendhat who has taken a bullet being all Bravo Two Zero will be up against someone faking it with a badge she got off eBay? Modern sensibilities suggest eBay wins.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 14, 2022)

I know tories don't like this kind of nonsense, but a simple Single Transferable Vote system would have had all this done and dusted in one afternoon.


----------



## Smangus (Jul 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I know tories don't like this kind of nonsense, but a simple Single Transferable Vote system would have had all this done and dusted in one afternoon.


So would 10 kgs of C4.....


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 14, 2022)

Votes gained or lost between rounds 1 & 2...

Mordaunt +16
Truss +14
Sunak +13
Badenoch +9
Tugendhat -5
Braverman -5

Sky is now reporting that some MPs thinks it will end-up being Mordaunt-v-Truss, because there're very few MPs left that would switch to Sunak.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)

From the Guardian



> Tom Tugendhat ‘feels like a prom queen’ as Tory rivals seek his support
> Foreign affairs select committee chair says leadership contest so far has been ‘a hell of a job interview’
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

Just read the same thing. Since the referendum he’s consistently voted for brexit. Ok .
Seems potentially to me the least worst, but no charisma at all so yeah.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 14, 2022)

tory hating cos they're torys aside - its a piss poor shower. Cant see any of them winning over the voters - sunak the boring billionaire, deadly dull mourdant (does she have any actual policeis?) and embarrassing, halfwitted bullshitter truss -  if labour had anyone even vaguely more charismatic and relatable than starmer they would absolutely walk the next election. Hopefully ruthless psychopath badenoch doesnt make the next round - cos she could actually inspire the faithful. From labour's POV I think truss would be their preferred choice - comes across like a pound shop johnson with a thatcher obsession.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Badenoch and Tugendhat have the next three days to work out that they haven't got a hope in hell in getting into the top two, so may as well withdraw.





platinumsage said:


> Badenoch could conceivably hoover up enough Braverman votes to leapfrog Truss, especially if she can at the same time steal any votes from Truss.


Still think Badenoch will finish third. I guess it comes down to these tv debates if she wipes the floor with Truss or Sunak


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

Yeah the debates are a big chance for the bottom two to torpedo the three former cabinet ministers. I’m actually quite excited in a spectator sport kind of way.


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I know tories don't like this kind of nonsense, but a simple Single Transferable Vote system would have had all this done and dusted in one afternoon.


But then they wouldn’t be able to fiddle things between rounds to get rid of someone.


----------



## maomao (Jul 14, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> I think truss would be their preferred choice - comes across like a pound shop johnson with a thatcher obsession.


I think Mordaunt's more like Johnson. Before this her big claim to fame was having used the word 'cock' repeatedly in her first speech to parliament.


----------



## chilango (Jul 14, 2022)

Wonder when this will get another outing?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 14, 2022)

Someone at Sky has started the weekend early [hic], their score board has gone crazy.


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

Stop the presses!

Shocking stuff. Fascinating & Very newsworthy.
Every MP of little shittington gets to feel important for a few days now don’t they.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> Means we're allowed to hoy them into Bristol docks.





PR1Berske said:


> From the Guardian


Tugendhat, who is the most Brexit-sceptic of the candidates in the race, insisted he would not take the UK back into the EU, but said he did not regret voting to remain.

“Six years ago, it was a different question,” he said. “What you’re asking me now is would I ever go back into the European Union? No, I wouldn’t. And the reason I wouldn’t, is because it would be bad for Britain. I have always put Britain first, I will always put Britain first.”

He said he had consistently voted to leave the EU since the referendum. “Once you get your orders, you march on. I work for the people in the United Kingdom … that is literally the job. And I got my orders in June 2016 And I intend to deliver.”

Yeah Tom, except that your constituency of Tonbridge and Malling all voted to leave and at the last minute you voted to Remain because your a career politician who has zero interest in other people. 

Twat.


----------



## xenon (Jul 14, 2022)

When is the TV debate? Because, and I can’t believe I’m saying this, I kind of wanna watch it.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2022)

xenon said:


> When is the TV debate? Because, and I can’t believe I’m saying this, I kind of wanna watch it.



7pm Friday Channel 4
7pm Sunday ITV
TBC Monday Sky News

edit: 8pm Tuesday Sky News


----------



## maomao (Jul 14, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Yeah Tom, except that your constituency of Tonbridge and Malling all voted to leave


55.7% of a 79.6% turnout in Tonbridge and Malling voted leave so considerably less than half the electorate.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 14, 2022)

Living in Tonbridge , I can tell you that people are bored of politics.


----------



## xenon (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> 7pm Friday Channel 4
> 7pm Sunday ITV
> TBC Monday Sky News



Well as I can’t go to the pub tomorrow, thank you coronavirus, I guess my Friday night is sorted.


----------



## A380 (Jul 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I know tories don't like this kind of nonsense, but a simple Single Transferable Vote system would have had all this done and dusted in one afternoon.



 Where would be the fun in that?


----------



## maomao (Jul 14, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Living in Tonbridge , I can tell you that people are bored of politics.


I'm sure. I'm just bored of the 'the working class voted for Brexit' myth. And I voted leave.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2022)

Daily Telegraph sawn off shot gun in action



In case you are wondering why that is ...



> For me, Penny Mordaunt is a bit like the insurgent Jeremy Corbyn in 2016, perhaps without the far-Left policy platform: a candidate the membership appears to love, but MPs less so. Like Corbyn before her, there is a striking lack of support for Mordaunt on her party's front bench.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 14, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> a candidate the membership appears to love, but MPs less so


isnt she second favourite amongst MPs?


----------



## JimW (Jul 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> isnt she second favourite amongst MPs?


Still technically less so than among the members. He's already only "perhaps"-ing her being to the right of Corbyn, don't expect an honest argument.


----------



## cesare (Jul 14, 2022)

I have no idea why the Telegraph refers to Corbyn having a far-Left policy platform. Far-left compared to the Telegraph perhaps, but I'd disagree even with that.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> What do people make of Penny Mordaunt's apparent popularity? It seems disproportionate to her profile.


(Sorry if this has been said, I've skipped some pages.. .) But basically, all the middle-aged tory boys (and no doubt not a few middle-aged tory girls too) fancy the pants off her. And that's about it as far as I can tell? On LBC last night, Nick Abbot's topic was actually "why is PM so popular?". Middle-aged bloke after middle-aged bloke rang in to say how left wing they usually were but they were keen on PM, oh yeah. Reasons were vague, certainly nothing policy related iirc, and nobody actually said "O she hot tho" but the admiration, of all these thirsty blokes, it went on and on and for me became like an elephant in the room. Probably because they're all married and can't say it out loud ... so yeah, that's my theory and I don't want it back thanks


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

Yep she’s probably going to be the prime minister, and if so it will be exactly because of that, she’s pretty and nobody knows what she thinks so that isn’t a distraction from the feelings they get when they see her photo which vaguely reminds them they were young men once or something. Ugh.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 14, 2022)

Smangus said:


> So would 10 kgs of C4.....



Whither the Ra…?


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

mojo pixy said:


> (Sorry if this has been said, I've skipped some pages.. .) But basically, all the middle-aged tory boys (and no doubt not a few middle-aged tory girls too) fancy the pants off her. And that's about it as far as I can tell? On LBC last night, Nick Abbot's topic was actually "why is PM so popular?". Middle-aged bloke after middle-aged bloke rang in to say how left wing they usually were but they were keen on PM, oh yeah. Reasons were vague, certainly nothing policy related iirc, and nobody actually said "O she hot tho" but the admiration, of all these thirsty blokes, it went on and on and for me became like an elephant in the room. Probably because they're all married and can't say it out loud ... so yeah, that's my theory and I don't want it back thanks


Pretty much, yeah.

I asked the question rather than just blundering in with my own opinion because I wasn't totally comfortable with making it about her appearance.

But say she had exactly the same profile, experience etc. but looked like Ann Widdecombe - hard not to suspect that she'd have found it _much_ harder to vault straight into pole position out of almost nowhere.

Having said that, she _does_ actually have an air of greater competence and sanity than most of the candidates. The problem is, because of her relative obscurity and the low bar, we don't have any real idea whether that impression is deserved.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 14, 2022)

cesare said:


> I have no idea why the Telegraph refers to Corbyn having a far-Left policy platform. Far-left compared to the Telegraph perhaps, but I'd disagree even with that.


Rather than "a policy platform popular with a lot of British people".


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Pretty much, yeah.
> 
> I asked the question rather than just blundering in with my own opinion because I wasn't totally comfortable with making it about her appearance.
> 
> ...



I mean, obvs on a more fundamental level the problem is she's still a fucking Tory, but you know ... we have to find something to talk about


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> We never really got there in this country, although there was a huge amount of hand wringing over it during the last few years. I have no doubt that no lessons will be learnt from the near miss and we will now just carry on regardless.
> 
> To be honest, I think in truth that pension schemes have no business buying low yield government bonds and should instead be concentrating on a mix of investment quality, high yield and equities. But that doesn’t sit well with modern day mark-to-market balance sheet valuations so here we are.


I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to pensioners that their pensions are gone because the pension fund manager bet heavily on burrito company bonds and Tesla, but you may be a better explainer than me.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to pensioners that their pensions are gone because the pension fund manager bet heavily on burrito company bonds and Tesla, but you may be a better explainer than me.


Probably best not to invest like that then


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

Pension funds are deeply invested into McDonald’s, And other fast food franchises, i learned recently.
Oh yeah here it is. Good writing. Absolutely nothing to do with the Tory leadership contest.








						How the State Created Fast Food ❧ Current Affairs
					

<p>Because of consistent government intervention in the industry, we might call fast food the quintessential cuisine of global capitalism.</p>




					www.currentaffairs.org


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 14, 2022)

Everyone else’s pension funds are heavily invested in the uks trains.

Property, of course it is, is also a large pension fund prop up.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Probably best not to invest like that then


Well, you said high yield bonds and equities!


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 14, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Badenoch could conceivably hoover up enough Braverman votes to leapfrog Truss, especially if she can at the same time steal any votes from Truss.


Yes, I have a worrying feeling she will outflank Truss in the debates. She seems to be a strong media performer, unlike Truss.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Well, you said high yield bonds and equities!


I said a combination. Their portfolio can afford 20%, for example, to gain a bit more yield.  And high yield bonds includes BB rated, eg Mitsubishi, while equities includes Unilever and, oh I don’t know, Imperial Tobacco or some other utter bastards that generate massive dividends year after year.


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

The members, who will vote for mordant because she sexy without admitting or even knowing that’s why they’re doing it, I hope they’re all married to rishi fans.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2022)

cesare said:


> I have no idea why the Telegraph refers to Corbyn having a far-Left policy platform. Far-left compared to the Telegraph perhaps, but I'd disagree even with that.


I once had dinner with a Telegraph journalist ( all on her expenses tab) and she honestly thought the paper was ‘in the centre’ .


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> I once had dinner with a Telegraph journalist ( all on her expenses tab)


Was it a date ?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> isnt she second favourite amongst MPs?


I get the sense the majority of their political correspondents are for Truss . Hence this angle .


----------



## marty21 (Jul 14, 2022)

xenon said:


> Well as I can’t go to the pub tomorrow, thank you coronavirus, I guess my Friday night is sorted.


Covid _fistpump_


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Was it a date ?


My lips are sealed bimble


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> My lips are sealed bimble


I did have Xmas eve snog though with a woman who worked in a pub in South Manchester that I used to drink in who later became a Guardian writer


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> I did have Xmas eve snog though with a woman who worked in a pub in South Manchester that I used to drink in who later became a Guardian writer


No that won’t help. A Telegraph journalist bought you dinner and you probably had pudding and tablecloths and everything and you will not disclose the context, highly suspect goings on.


----------



## xenon (Jul 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I said a combination. Their portfolio can afford 20%, for example, to gain a bit more yield.  And high yield bonds includes BB rated, eg Mitsubishi, while equities includes Unilever and, oh I don’t know, Imperial Tobacco or some other utter bastards that generate massive dividends year after year.



I feel like a financial genius now. For our workplace pension we could choose different types of funds for it to go into. I chose a balance of stable boring old stuff, cutting-edge green technology. Said no to evil tobacco et cetera. In fact I think I favoured it slightly in the more riskie end.
Get back to me in 25 years or so to see if I’m eating out of bins…


----------



## chilango (Jul 14, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> My lips are sealed bimble



No tongues?


----------



## xenon (Jul 14, 2022)

Also, what did you eat?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 14, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> I did have Xmas eve snog though with a woman who worked in a pub in South Manchester that I used to drink in who later became a Guardian writer



Who hasn't?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 14, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> I once had dinner with a Telegraph journalist ( all on her expenses tab) and she honestly thought the paper was ‘in the centre’ .



We (foolishly) gave a lift to a Telegraph journalist when chasing that NF photographer to Drayton Park in the Harrington campaign. She definitely wasn't 'centre'.

#what'syourworstreviewinthepapers?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2022)

xenon said:


> Also, what did you eat?


Chinese .Did my best to run up the highest bill possible with out appearing to be doing that


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> No that won’t help. A Telegraph journalist bought you dinner and you probably had pudding and tablecloths and everything and you will not disclose the context, highly suspect goings on.


Delicate matters like this require a degree of integrity imo


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Delicate matters like this require a degree of integrity imo


INTEGRITY. Yes decency and integrity, and DELIVERING for the BRITISH PEOPLE. 
that is what this election is all about.
I bet you sold her a story.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> INTEGRITY. Yes decency and integrity, and DELIVERING for the BRITISH PEOPLE.
> that is what this election is all about.
> I bet you sold her a story.



I reckon it was the dinner where the Lexit/Brexit secret pact was arranged. 

(Just pulling your leg 39th.  )


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2022)

The editor of the Daily Mail online lives round the corner from me.  Never met him but his wife is a right snooty cow.  Trufax.  Sidebar of shame that, you nobhead.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 14, 2022)

pesh said:


>


----------



## tommers (Jul 14, 2022)

I once had a fight with one of Kelvin Mckenzie's sons.


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

oh england.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> Come to China, the Han majority don't even bother to attempt the names of fellow citizens of other ethnicities properly, and some like the Mongols used to run the place! Also force all the different Han languages into one pronunciation.


My claim was entirely anecdotal of course and should have been more like "in my experience having travelled from Argentina to Zimbabwe (not directly) the English are still the only people who insist on mispronouncing my name which is now spelt phonetically for English speakers because they wouldn't even try with the original spelling".


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 14, 2022)

tommers said:


> I once had a fight with one of Kelvin Mckenzie's sons.


I hope you had the better of it.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 14, 2022)

DownwardDog said:


> She was an Acting Sub-Lieutenant in RN Reserves ( ie crossed the Solent in a RHIB). Then she promoted herself to Captain when she was at the MoD. She absolutely has not qualified for or earned the Submariner's Dolphins.


Somebody needs to do a stolen valour video ambush on her.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

tommers said:


> I once had a fight with one of Kelvin Mckenzie's sons.



I hope you pictured his dad as you beat him to a bloody pulp.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

I've been desparately trying to remember if I've had any interesting encounters with the right-wing commentariat to contribute,  but it seems vanishingly few of them hang around in the kind of out-in-the-sticks parts of the North East that I tend to frequent.

I did once stand next to a senior member of the BNP at a urinal.


----------



## tommers (Jul 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I've been desparately trying to remember if I've had any interesting encounters with the right-wing commentariat to contribute,  but it seems vanishingly few of them hang around in the kind of out-in-the-sticks parts of the North East that I tend to frequent.
> 
> I did once stand next to a senior member of the BNP at a urinal.


Did you piss on him? Was he on fire?


----------



## bimble (Jul 14, 2022)

i went on a date with the editor of a now defunct magazine called The Liberal. Which will surprise exactly nobody here.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

tommers said:


> Did you piss on him? Was he on fire?



He was one of the heed-the-ball ones, not one of the creepy pseudo-intellectual ones, so I reluctantly decided it was probably best not to shove him mid-stream.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> i went on a date with the editor of a now defunct magazine called The Liberal. Which will surprise exactly nobody here.



You're right - I'm not even slightly surprised that a magazine with name that crappy would go to the wall.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 14, 2022)

I had a chat with Dan Hodges once at a Migrant Trust soiree. He was ok. A bit hyper. Maybe on coke. He didn't offer me any though.


----------



## editor (Jul 14, 2022)




----------



## billy_bob (Jul 14, 2022)

editor said:


> View attachment 332313


Been there, done that


----------



## bcuster (Jul 14, 2022)

Dom Traynor said:


> Somebody needs to do a stolen valour video ambush on her.





> Ms Mordaunt is a* Royal Navy reservist*. Her father, John, was paratrooper and she served as acting sub-lieutenant of the Portsmouth-based HMS King Alfred in 2010. She was made an honorary commander in 2019 and an honourary captain on in June 2021.





> https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/KingAlfred


----------



## wow (Jul 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> Nah, Cameron fucked a pig but it's not that which did for him.


Cameron was a made man. The pig stuff can and was brushed off as “boys will be boys”



bimble said:


> err. the exact opposite of this is happening though isnt it.
> View attachment 332172View attachment 332173
> 
> 
> ...



Early days. Truss is a dead duck in this challenge. Fuck me, her sole contribution to the Foreign Sec role has been to make Putin want to nuke us.  RW press are preaching to the converted right now. They’re also trying to figure out whether to go full GOP. They’ll change their tune when she gets eliminated and the candidates have more of a purple tinge


----------



## bcuster (Jul 14, 2022)

she likes oklahoma (?)


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2022)

bcuster said:


> she likes oklahoma (?)



It’s a fine musical, to be fair


----------



## Spandex (Jul 14, 2022)

Sunak says judge me on my record, not my wealth

Okay then:


Increased energy price cap by 12% in October 2021 and 54% in April 2022, leading to rocketing energy bills
Screwed many self-employed in furlough scheme
Eat out to spread it about
Stamp duty holiday pushed house prices up 10% in a year
Opposed second lockdown, helping cost thousands of lives
Fined for attending lockdown party
Forgot to declare £1.7 billion family fortune in MPs register of interests
Wrote off £4.3 billion of fraud without even trying to recover it
Opaque tax affairs
Held US Green Card until 2021

What have I forgotten?


----------



## Sue (Jul 14, 2022)

Well this has turned into a thread of shame. And I'm not talking about the Tories either.


----------



## editor (Jul 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Been there, done that


I went back five pages and thought I might have got lucky. Alas.


----------



## CyberRose (Jul 14, 2022)

Don't know if we've already had this...


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> i went on a date with the editor of a now defunct magazine called The Liberal. Which will surprise exactly nobody here.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

Sue said:


> Well this has turned into a thread of shame. And I'm not talking about the Tories either.



What are you talking about then?


----------



## Sue (Jul 14, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> What are you talking about then?


The dating and dining revelations up-thread. Telegraph journalists, editors of The Liberal. All sorts.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2022)

Sue said:


> The dating and dining revelations up-thread. Telegraph journalists, editors of The Liberal. All sorts.



Well, skipping the last couple of pages was clearly a good move on my part then.


----------



## Gerry1time (Jul 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> i went on a date with the editor of a now defunct magazine called The Liberal. Which will surprise exactly nobody here.


Ben Ramm?


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 14, 2022)

> The Tory infighting comes as one senior Truss supporter revealed frustration with MPs who have failed to vote for her as promised, telling _The Independent_: “This is the most duplicitous lying electorate you have ever come across".


Independent

🤣


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 14, 2022)




----------



## two sheds (Jul 14, 2022)

told


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 14, 2022)

oh ... _please please_ let truss win.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 14, 2022)

that daily mail attempted hatchet job on mordant is really really poor. Is that the best they could do on the mudslinging front? Cant understand why the right of the party - and its newspapers - are backing truss over mordant.


----------



## wow (Jul 14, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> that daily mail attempted hatchet job on mordant is really really poor. Is that the best they could do on the mudslinging front? Cant understand why the right of the party - and its newspapers - are backing truss over mordant.



DM’s reaction wasn’t entirely unexpected.

Post in thread 'Tory Leadership contest 2022'
Tory Leadership contest 2022


----------



## ash (Jul 15, 2022)

I'm sure it's been said already but it's somewhat ironic that Kemi (the Tory candidate) has the surname - Bad Enoch 🤷‍♀️


----------



## A380 (Jul 15, 2022)

kabbes said:


> The editor of the Daily Mail online lives round the corner from me.  Never met him but his wife is a right snooty cow.  Trufax.  Sidebar of shame that, you nobhead.



When’s bin day round your way?


----------



## wow (Jul 15, 2022)

wow said:


> DM’s reaction wasn’t entirely unexpected.
> 
> Post in thread 'Tory Leadership contest 2022'
> Tory Leadership contest 2022


Does this post need moderation for 2 hours?


----------



## DownwardDog (Jul 15, 2022)

A380 said:


> Ta.



Even if she had legit qualified for them it's still a breach of uniform regs to wear them on civvie clothes.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

DownwardDog said:


> Even if she had legit qualified for them it's still a breach of uniform regs to wear them on civvie clothes.



Surely it's ok if it's a plastic version from the Royal Navy Museum gift shop?


----------



## JimW (Jul 15, 2022)

Are we sure it's not just some memento tat from Seaworld?


----------



## marty21 (Jul 15, 2022)

If we are talking about vague associations with the Tories , I was once the 3rd passenger in a lift with William Hague & Sebastian Coe . I think they were on the way to the gym (it was at Dolphin Square)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2022)

Remember when some fash types were pictured with para berets and all the ex-forces twats were all, 'boo, they shouldn't be allowed to wear that because they didn't serve' and then it turned out they were genuine paras after all.

Well the dolphin thing is nothing like that really. But still, if you give a shit about stuff like this, maybe go get yourself some real problems instead.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 15, 2022)

I wonder what the candidate’s cheese preferences would be. This is important. The public must know


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> I wonder what the candidate’s cheese preferences would be. This is important. The public must know


Must know bean preferences first


----------



## A380 (Jul 15, 2022)




----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 15, 2022)

All I know is that Liz Truss thinks that importing cheese from other countries is *a* *disgrace*


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 15, 2022)

All the candidates have links to Tufton Street, the most right-wing address in London:










						An Unwelcome Certainty in an Uncertain World - 99%
					

As Niels Bohr remarked, “Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future.” And that general remark is particularly true about politics where decisions are taken on the basis of complex (and sometimes less than transparent) motivations. Given that, is it safe to make any predictions...




					99-percent.org


----------



## teqniq (Jul 15, 2022)

Indeed so and this would go some way to explaining how Mordaunt and Badenoch have come to the fore seemingly out of nowhere:











						B is for … Britain Breaker, Not Backer
					

Week B | Tory Time | Penny Mordaunt MP




					fivebyfivetimes.substack.com


----------



## A380 (Jul 15, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Remember when some fash types were pictured with para berets and all the ex-forces twats were all, 'boo, they shouldn't be allowed to wear that because they didn't serve' and then it turned out they were genuine paras after all.
> 
> Well the dolphin thing is nothing like that really. But still, if you give a shit about stuff like this, maybe go get yourself some real problems instead.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 15, 2022)

.


Cat Fan said:


> All I know is that Liz Truss thinks that importing cheese from other countries is *a* *disgrace*


She can take my stinky French cheese from my cold dead hand 😡


----------



## bimble (Jul 15, 2022)

Daily mail is really going for it with long attacks on mourdant, not sure why they’re doing that seems a weird thing if their main concern is to not have sunak?

ETA from there


----------



## cesare (Jul 15, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> All the candidates have links to Tufton Street, the most right-wing address in London:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 What other kind of prediction is there, other than the future? 

kabbes


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 15, 2022)

bimble said:


> Daily mail is really going for it with long attacks on mourdant, not sure why they’re doing that seems a weird thing if their main concern is to not have sunak?


Mordaunt doesn't appear to be too far from Sunak on the batshit scale and they probably reckon it might be easier to stop her from getting into the final two than him.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 15, 2022)

cesare said:


> What other kind of prediction is there, other than the future?
> 
> kabbes


I find that predicting the past makes me look very wise.


----------



## cesare (Jul 15, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I find that predicting the past makes me look very wise.


Exactly. Someone should mention that to Niels Bohr.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

cesare said:


> What other kind of prediction is there, other than the future?
> 
> kabbes


where to find schrodinger's cat


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

marty21 said:


> .
> 
> She can take my stinky French cheese from my cold dead hand 😡



I believe that is one of her policy promises, yes.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 15, 2022)

bimble said:


> Daily mail is really going for it with long attacks on mourdant, not sure why they’re doing that seems a weird thing if their main concern is to not have sunak?
> 
> ETA from thereView attachment 332364



Because the loon front is broadly behind Truss, possibly because she's thicker than cat shit and can be manipulated into doing/thinking anything, but they know that if the final vote is between Truss and Mordaunt then Truss is toast.

However, if that vote is between Truss and Sunak, then Truss will walk it, because the Tory party don't like Sunak.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

Plenty of scope in the eight hours of live TV debates over the next four days for any the remaining candidates to destroy their chances.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 15, 2022)

wait till someone tells liz truss how much coffee and tea we import.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Because the loon front is broadly behind Truss, possibly because she's thicker than cat shit and can be manipulated into doing/thinking anything, but they know that if the final vote is between Truss and Mordaunt then Truss is toast.
> 
> However, if that vote is between Truss and Sunak, then Truss will walk it, because the Tory party don't like Sunak.


the only guaranteed outcome is an utter wanker with the morals of a rat will win


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> wait till someone tells liz truss how much coffee and tea we import.



She already said she wants to let our farmers grow food. I‘m sure she can add tea and coffee to that.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 15, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> wait till someone tells liz truss how much coffee and tea we import.


She probably thinks Yorkshire Tea comes from Yorkshire...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 15, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> She probably thinks Yorkshire Tea comes from Yorkshire...



it doesn't? !!


----------



## Supine (Jul 15, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> eight hours of live TV debates



 WTF


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 15, 2022)

Packaged in Yorkshire


----------



## emanymton (Jul 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> the only guaranteed outcome is an utter wanker with the morals of a rat will win


Bit harsh on wankers and rats.


----------



## Flavour (Jul 15, 2022)

yes we absolutely need Liz Truss as prime minister and I hope the queen dies during her tenure


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Bit harsh on wankers and rats.


yeh but someone's always going to get the shitty end of the stick


----------



## andysays (Jul 15, 2022)

cesare said:


> Exactly. Someone should mention that to Niels Bohr.


I believe it might be a joke.


----------



## bimble (Jul 15, 2022)

I suspect there's a set of mismatched mugs somewhere in a box at conservative hq which they lend to people when the need arises for a photo of them being extremely ordinary and normal. Sunak's wife the other day with that tray of mugs, no way was that her everyday fine china.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

Mordaunt is clearly very much the Guardian's pick:

The Guardian view on the Tory leadership contenders 

They make a half-hearted attempt at warning that she needs to prove herself and stuff, but at the same time as slipping in a good few compliments - 'new broom', 'subtle campaign planning' (really?)

Maybe this belongs on the Guardian down the pan thread, but it's interesting that the liberal-left paper apparently wants one of the more plausible-seeming and (comparatively) centrist candidates to win and maybe successfully reinvigorate the government, rather than some nutter or numbskull who would make the Tories more beatable for our dreary and uninspiring opposition leader.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 15, 2022)

And you'd imagine the Sunaks would have a pleb for carrying trays of mugs.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

bimble said:


> I suspect there's a set of mismatched mugs somewhere in a box at conservative hq which they lend to people when the need arises for a photo of them being extremely ordinary and normal. Sunak's wife the other day with that tray of mugs, no way was that her everyday fine china.


tbf that might have been to look normal but it might also have been because no way would she give the good crockery to a bunch of hacks and paps. They probably got the mugs that she doesn't consider good enough even for tradespeople.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

The mugs Sunak’s wife used were only £38 each apparently, from a North London brand: Emma Lacey


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 15, 2022)

It’s Cheshire btw. I have this on good authority. mordant likes  mild cheddar. Sunak prefers  that stuff in tubes with chives in it. On crackers made of 24k gold


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> The mugs Sunak’s wife used were only £38 each apparently, from a North London brand: Emma Lacey


1. They're horrible mugs, and (b) the word 'only' is doing some heavy lifting there


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 15, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Packaged in Yorkshire
> 
> View attachment 332370


"Making tea for the team" holding a teapot that could hold about two cups


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 15, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Mordaunt is clearly very much the Guardian's pick:
> 
> The Guardian view on the Tory leadership contenders
> 
> ...


I mean, would she genuinely be that different from Starmer when it comes to policy? They're both apparently pretty "centrist"


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I mean, would she genuinely be that different from Starmer when it comes to policy? They're both apparently pretty "centrist"


you didn't read this piece linked to on the last page B is for … Britain Breaker, Not Backer


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 15, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Mordaunt is clearly very much the Guardian's pick:
> 
> The Guardian view on the Tory leadership contenders
> 
> ...



My guess about Mordaunt is that she is some sort of return to Cameron/Osborne style politics: economically conservative and socially liberal. As such her appeal to the professional middle class is obvious because essentially so are they. The best way to understand this farcical election run off is that this is yet another battle for control between the two dominant factions of the past 20 years: the established order of the right: represented by the repellent Mourdaunt and the oily Sunak against the insurgent right represented by the genuinely swivel eyed Badenoch and more contingently by the utterly ludicrous Truss.  The blunt reality is that Mourdant might sound all Ben & Jerry's on equality, but will happily smash up what's left of the state, hand over Billions to corporations, attack the organised working class and - like the others - has demonstrated that she doesn't understand the current perma-crisis let alone have any ideas to engage with it   

That the allegedly liberal Guardian could even think of writing this garbage let alone publish it reveals more about the now almost complete intellectual and political collapse of their brand of politics than it does about Mourdant.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 15, 2022)

Isn't Starmer also reasonably economically conservative? He's not going to rock the boat too much and he won't face up to the biggest drag on the economy relative to our peers, which is Brexit.


----------



## gosub (Jul 15, 2022)

Oops sorry for pearoast v busy at mo


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I mean, would she genuinely be that different from Starmer when it comes to policy? They're both apparently pretty "centrist"





Cat Fan said:


> Isn't Starmer also reasonably economically conservative? He's not going to rock the boat too much and he won't face up to the biggest drag on the economy relative to our peers, which is Brexit.



Just to be clear, I wasn't saying I thought the world _would _be a significantly better or different place under Starmer's Labour than it would under Mordaunt's Tories. The Guardian's stance is indicative of the very blurred lines you're talking about, and of the fact that now there _is _a 'economically conservative, socially liberal' wing of the Conservatives, there's no real need for it (the paper) to support even a nominally left-wing party, because its own position and, as Smokeandsteam says, that of most of its core readership is pretty well aligned with that Conservative wing.

But the media influences as well as reflecting, and it is, potentially at least, of _some _significance that the Guardian's allegiance to Labour is ever more lukewarm.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

Seems the ERG are defiant about supporting Truss - seems they care more about retaining their own seats than keeping the Tories in government:


----------



## bimble (Jul 15, 2022)

why does that man imagine that badenoch is his best chance of not getting sacked? how does that make sense?
eta oh i think its the wokeness thing. he is one of those in the "Common Sense Group"


----------



## existentialist (Jul 15, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> wait till someone tells liz truss how much coffee and tea we import.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

bimble said:


> why does that man imagine that badenoch is his best chance of not getting sacked? how does that make sense?
> eta oh i think its the wokeness thing. he is one of those in the "Common Sense Group"



Also Truss was previously pro-EU and is not a True Brexiteer.


----------



## philosophical (Jul 15, 2022)

I imagine Sunak’s idea of making a cup of tea is to put the teabag in the mug first, along with some milk that is already turning Truss cheesy, then pouring on water that hasn’t yet boiled, and squeezing the life out of the teabag with a Biro until the concoction is undrinkably stewed, and the mug is stained for eternity.


----------



## cesare (Jul 15, 2022)

andysays said:


> I believe it might be a joke.


Joking was the general premise.


----------



## Spandex (Jul 15, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I mean, would she genuinely be that different from Starmer when it comes to policy? They're both apparently pretty "centrist"


Starmer won't want to rock any boats and will be happy to plough on with steady-as-she-goes euro-capitalism, occasionally remembering he's a Labour leader and exclaiming "easy now!" as capital monetises another essential state provision.

Mordant, according the article teqniq and Pickman's model posted, wants the UK to adopt the worst traits of the American clean slate libertarian late vulture capitalism and has been actively working towards it. 

Choose your flavour of hell.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 15, 2022)

The next Tory government is going to be even worse than Johnson's clown show, isn't it?

I know they're only playing to their own right now, but presumably they're going to at least try to follow through on at least some of their promises.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 15, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The next Tory government is going to be even worse than Johnson's clown show, isn't it?
> 
> I know they're only playing to their own right now, but presumably they're going to at least try to follow through on at least some of their promises.



Yeah, somebody actually mildly competent with an ideology rather than clownishly self centred might get in and it’s going to be a grim few years as a result. 

The corruption hidden away a bit for the papers, playing nicely with donors. It’s all a bit worrying.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 15, 2022)

The new cabinet have got a couple of years to asset strip the UK until they Fuck of into obscurity and wealth. Toryscum


----------



## bimble (Jul 15, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The next Tory government is going to be even worse than Johnson's clown show, isn't it?
> 
> I know they're only playing to their own right now, but presumably they're going to at least try to follow through on at least some of their promises.


Not sure. They may also bin some of the more hideous plans that are currently in the pipework, dreamed up by the incompetent ideologues that BJ surrounded himself with. I think it depends. He did purge anyone half sane didn’t he a couple of years ago.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 15, 2022)

tommers said:


> I once had a fight with one of Kelvin Mckenzie's sons.


The one that took over from him/ran the sales team at talksport?

I didn't like him.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The next Tory government is going to be even worse than Johnson's clown show, isn't it?
> 
> I know they're only playing to their own right now, but presumably they're going to at least try to follow through on at least some of their promises.


they'll be following through onto the rest of us


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 15, 2022)

Still cannot believe the next pm of the UK could be someone who campaign for bush jr 

Hell in a hand basket


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> Still cannot believe the next pm of the UK could be someone who campaign for bush jr
> 
> Hell in a hand basket


the sooner the next pm of the uk is in the same condition as bush sr the better


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

T


littlebabyjesus said:


> The next Tory government is going to be even worse than Johnson's clown show, isn't it?
> 
> I know they're only playing to their own right now, but presumably they're going to at least try to follow through on at least some of their promises.


The danger with Sunac or Mordant is they might actually be compitent and free enough of disabling gaffs and scandles to carry out policy.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> T
> 
> The danger with Sunac or Mordant is they might actually be compitent and free enough of disabling gaffs and scandles to carry out policy.


Yep. the one thing Johnson had going for him was his ineptitude and laziness.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 15, 2022)

Ashamed to learn that Mordaunt is a graduate of my university (Reading)


----------



## tommers (Jul 15, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> The one that took over from him/ran the sales team at talksport?
> 
> I didn't like him.


I haven't followed their careers, which one was that?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Ashamed to learn that Mordaunt is a graduate of my university (Reading)


most every other university has a week in the autumn and spring terms in which students fall to their knees and give thanks that they don't share an alma mater with la mordaunt - they're known as reading weeks.


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep. the one thing Johnson had going for him was his ineptitude and laziness.



I hope Trus wins TBH. I can't see her enthusing the temporary tory voters or winning new ones. Also more of the current regeme stick around, the less chance of a clean break revitalised sensible conservative policies at a difficult time shtick can be played next GE


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

How does someone with a degree in philosophy end up in a position to do PR for a US presidential candidate anyway. The philosophy grads I've known worked in callcentres after graduating....

Slightly rhetorical question.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 15, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The next Tory government is going to be even worse than Johnson's clown show, isn't it?
> 
> I know they're only playing to their own right now, but presumably they're going to at least try to follow through on at least some of their promises.


Well I think it depends who wins. Some of the candidates are so right wing they won't commit us to our climate change targets.

They're all going to keep going with the Brexit FUBAR situation.

Mordaunt apparently wants to reform early years childcare which would be amazing to be honest, but I don't expect her to follow through with any actual new funding.

Badenoch seems the scariest so far, she wants to take the biggest hatchet to public services.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> How does someone with a degree in philosophy end up in a position to do PR for a US presidential candidate anyway. The philosophy grads I've known worked in callcentres after graduating....
> 
> Slightly rhetorical question.


Connections I guess. At least she didn't go to Eton or Winchester.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

Nadine Dorries apparently said this about Liz Truss on Channel 4 News last night:



> They call her a hand grenade because she gets things done.



(Dorries is supporting Truss, in case that wasn't clear)


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 15, 2022)

I'm sure I saw this morning something that said BadMad Kemi had dropped out but I must have been mistaken.


----------



## A380 (Jul 15, 2022)

philosophical said:


> I imagine Sunak’s idea of making a cup of tea is to put the teabag in the mug first, along with some milk that is already turning Truss cheesy, then pouring on water that hasn’t yet boiled, and squeezing the life out of the teabag with a Biro until the concoction is undrinkably stewed, and the mug is stained for eternity.


I Imagine his idea of making team is ringing a little bell.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> I'm sure I saw this morning something that said BadMad Kemi had dropped out but I must have been mistaken.


You might have seen headlines saying that Lord Frost has apparently urged her to do so?


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 15, 2022)

tommers said:


> I haven't followed their careers, which one was that?


Can't remember his name now to be honest.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> I hope Trus wins TBH. I can't see her enthusing the temporary tory voters or winning new ones. Also more of the current regeme stick around, the less chance of a clean break revitalised sensible conservative policies at a difficult time shtick can be played next GE



Yeah, after an initial phase of thinking it would be bad if _all _the candidates were obviously lunatics, I think this is the best hope.

But it's galling that, as much as I (always) want to see the Tories out on their arses, Starmer's clearly unable and unwilling to take advantage of any swing in Labour's direction to do anything that's actually worthwhile...


----------



## spitfire (Jul 15, 2022)

She's having a 'mare. 

Online hustings taking place and...


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 15, 2022)

spitfire said:


> She's having a 'mare.
> 
> Online hustings taking place and...
> 
> View attachment 332409


So she has the gift of being able to talk a lot without saying anything meaningful. What a lot of hot air.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> I'm sure I saw this morning something that said BadMad Kemi had dropped out but I must have been mistaken.



She's at a hastings atm arguing for an increase universal credit.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Ashamed to learn that Mordaunt is a graduate of my university (Reading)


It's alright, I'm an alumnus of Reading too. So I figure I cancel her out.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 15, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> You might have seen headlines saying that Lord Frost has apparently urged her to do so?


Quite possibly, In between Mrs Q giving me todays set of instructions, my daughter bounding around like a demented lycra clad djinn, all while I was trying to get some breakfast and that critical first cuppa of the day. it is not impossible that I didn't pick up the full story and may have filled in the blanks with a bit of wishful thinking.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 15, 2022)

spitfire said:


> She's having a 'mare.
> 
> Online hustings taking place and...
> 
> View attachment 332409


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2022)

wow said:


> Does this post need moderation for 2 hours?


New posters who add links to their posts are automatically out into a moderation queue to prevent spamming. This site is run by unpaid volunteers so I'd say 2 hours isn't a bad wait at all.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 15, 2022)

Just watching Sky News interviews of candidates, on housing Tugendhat gave the most waffly nothing answer I've ever heard, Penny Mordaunt slightly more focused on the subject but got confused halfway through and ended with "let a thousand flowers bloom," which was an interesting choice of quote ... Badenoch more on the ball (probably because she's been holding the local government brief), Truss suggesting (rather laughably given the trends under successive Tory goverments in which she's been very influential) that housing policy be more locally targeted and er, "build upwards," which I suppose is better than drilling into the earth. Rishi starts with the bleedin' obvious "we're all conservatives" and is clearly well briefed with a blue skies idea of flat pack housing to throw in, the zany bastard.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 15, 2022)

Lol "what is your greatest weakness"

Badenoch: Great question! I tend to laugh at starving poors, which is something I'm working on.
Rishi: I'm too much of a perfectionist which is something I'm working on
Truss: I'm too enthusiastic about stuff!
Mordaunt: I have four Burmese cats, haha. But seriously my only weakness is learning to delegate, which I've learned to do.
Tugendhat: I talk too much about my time in the Army, which by the way taught me loads of skills. So yeah. I've been in the Army. Did I mention the Army?


----------



## Sue (Jul 15, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Penny Mordaunt slightly more focused on the subject but got confused halfway through and ended with "let a thousand flowers bloom," which was an interesting choice of quote ...


Showing her true colours eh?


----------



## bimble (Jul 15, 2022)

This is from a week ago, a survey asking people if they were familiar with the candidates. 


But the only reason its interesting really is that the pollster (on twitter) adds  that the fake totally made up candidate at the bottom, who 12% of people said they know lots or a fair bit about, if you break that down it was 5% of women claiming they know exactly who it is but a whopping 19% of men. lovely stuff.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

I wonder what percentage of MPs have voted for Stewart?


----------



## maomao (Jul 15, 2022)

Stewart Lewis? Cunt.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 15, 2022)

Chilling how he's been totally erased from history.  #JusticeForStuLu


----------



## contadino (Jul 15, 2022)

maomao said:


> Stewart Lewis? Cunt.


You don't know that. Could be a nice guy. Stop being lead by your preconceptions.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 15, 2022)




----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

Funny, I'd have expected at least two of them to go with 'well, I'm evil...'


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 15, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



To be fair to Tom TugginghisHat I can empathise with that one, My FiL is ex-RN and you have to be careful talking to him about anything in case he seizes upon the chance (any chance) to start telling you about it.
"Have I told you this story before?"
"Yes only 53 fucking times perhaps I should tell it you instead"


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

Sunak, though. 'Oh, I suppose I'm just too good at everything *sigh *' - classic smug-twat job interview answer to the weakness question.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> To be fair to Tom TugginghisHat I can empathise with that one, My FiL is ex-RN and you have to be careful talking to him about anything in case he seizes upon the chance (any chance) to start telling you about it.
> "Have I told you this story before?"
> "Yes only 53 fucking times perhaps I should tell it you instead"


have you ever shown him those episodes of only fools and horses in which uncle albert attempts to regale delboy and rodney with some anecdote from his service?


----------



## two sheds (Jul 15, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> and er, "build upwards,"


She may be contradicting I think it was Noddy who said the best way was to put the roof up first because then you're sheltered.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

I can't tell which posts are satire and which are real.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 15, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Funny, I'd have expected at least two of them to go with 'well, I'm evil...'


It was asking them about _weaknesses_.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

chilango said:


> I can't tell which posts are satire and which are real.


they all are


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 15, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> To be fair to Tom TugginghisHat I can empathise with that one, My FiL is ex-RN and you have to be careful talking to him about anything in case he seizes upon the chance (any chance) to start telling you about it.
> "Have I told you this story before?"
> "Yes only 53 fucking times perhaps I should tell it you instead"



"Ah, so you're saying I just shut up about my time in the military because it's all I ever talk about and I've told every story a million times? That reminds me of a jungle training mission we went on in Borneo, the sergeant was a terrible bore..."


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 15, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> "Ah, so you're saying I just shut up about my time in the military because it's all I ever talk about and I've told every story a million times? That reminds me of a jungle training mission we went on in Borneo, the sergeant was a terrible bore..."


You've met him eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> To be fair to Tom TugginghisHat I can empathise with that one, My FiL is ex-RN and you have to be careful talking to him about anything in case he seizes upon the chance (any chance) to start telling you about it.
> "Have I told you this story before?"
> "Yes only 53 fucking times perhaps I should tell it you instead"


not someone who was in the army (afaik) but where i used to drink there was this man who no matter where the conversation would have you talking about the second world war and most likely german weapons before you'd had a third of a pint.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> not someone who was in the army (afaik) but where i used to drink there was this man who no matter where the conversation would have you talking about the second world war and most likely german weapons before you'd had a third of a pint.





Sorry.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 15, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Sorry.



yeah - but the 88mm flack gun ....


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 15, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Just watching Sky News interviews of candidates, on housing Tugendhat gave the most waffly nothing answer I've ever heard, Penny Mordaunt slightly more focused on the subject but got confused halfway through and ended with "let a thousand flowers bloom," which was an interesting choice of quote ...



So the Telegraph (Mail? Express?) were right about her basically.

Virtually Corbyn. Mao x10.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> they all are


Simulacra something something hyperreal something something Baudrillard.

It's just like that bit in the Matrix man.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 15, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> So the Telegraph (Mail? Express?) were right about her basically.
> 
> Virtually Corbyn. Mao x10.


Can't spell Mordaunt without Mao.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 15, 2022)




----------



## spitfire (Jul 15, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> yeah - but the 88mm flack gun ....



It was actually an anti tank weapon repurpos......

I'll get my coat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

spitfire said:


> It was actually an anti tank weapon repurpos......
> 
> I'll get my coat.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 15, 2022)

No actual real plans amongst the lot of them. Do these twats realise they are sitting on a swamp of toxic economic gelatinous ooze that isn’t going to be solved by cutting tax for boomers and landlords. Fucking blinkered imbecility


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 15, 2022)

Thank fuck I am too lazy to care


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Do these twats realise they are sitting on a swamp of toxic economic gelatinous ooze



They're all sitting on Sunak?


----------



## Wilf (Jul 15, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Nadine Dorries apparently said this about Liz Truss on Channel 4 News last night:
> 
> 
> 
> (Dorries is supporting Truss, in case that wasn't clear)


Things rarely are with her.


----------



## bimble (Jul 15, 2022)

the liz truss campaign seems to have massive banners in all the advertising spaces on the Conservative Home website. which is interesting.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2022)

So, Mordaunt is a halfwit then. Homeopathy ffs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> They're all shitting on Sunak?


C4u


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 15, 2022)

rduntpenny


SpookyFrank said:


> So, Mordaunt is a halfwit then. Homeopathy ffs.



"Penny Morduant" sounds a bit like it could be a Victorian term for a cheap medicine that doesn't work.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> rduntpenny
> 
> 
> "Penny Morduant" sounds a bit like it could be a Victorian term for a cheap medicine that doesn't work.


Or a nasty and easily picked up sort of clap


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

bimble said:


> the liz truss campaign seems to have massive banners in all the advertising spaces on the Conservative Home website. which is interesting.



I think they’ll all advertise there at some point.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> most every other university has a week in the autumn and spring terms in which students fall to their knees and give thanks that they don't share an alma mater with la mordaunt - they're known as reading weeks.



Almost 'I haven't got a clue' punnery levels.

Very well done indeed  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Almost 'I haven't got a clue' punnery levels.
> 
> Very well done indeed  - Louis MacNeice


High praise indeed


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> High praise indeed



You'll have  had your tea then?

Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Jul 15, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> So, Mordaunt is a halfwit then. Homeopathy ffs.


Homeopathy never did me any harm. (Or any good, for that matter)


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 15, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> rduntpenny
> 
> 
> "Penny Morduant" sounds a bit like it could be a Victorian term for a cheap medicine that doesn't work.


Or a chemical for fixing dye.


----------



## JimW (Jul 15, 2022)

Liz Truss immediately tried to outdo her by offering psychopathy.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> Homeopathy never did me any harm. (Or any good, for that matter)



Nothing is better for you than a homeopathic treatment.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Anybody watching this?


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Truss is starting and is rubbish.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Tugendhat a little more convincing


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2022)

chilango said:


> Anybody watching this?


No


----------



## JimW (Jul 15, 2022)

Lower bar than snake fencing mind.


----------



## LDC (Jul 15, 2022)

chilango said:


> Anybody watching this?



Just about to...


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2022)

Just put it on.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

chilango said:


> Tugendhat a little more convincing


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

I hope Truss wins, she's rubbish at this.

I fear Badenoch, she's a proper zealot.

Sunak is too smooth. 

Tugendhat and Mordaunt so far are steady but uninspiring.


----------



## LDC (Jul 15, 2022)

God Truss is cringingly useless. Sunak and Mordaunt come across much better. Tugendhat is the Stewart candidate isn't he?


----------



## LDC (Jul 15, 2022)

How the fuck is Truss in charge of anything more than a packed lunch? Jesus fucking christ.

Badenoch is a loon. She doesn't have a chance thank fuck, but bet she ends up in the Cabinet.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 15, 2022)

Only one who had the balls to shake his head at the Johnson trust question. (Tugenhardtospell)


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

Trus lol


----------



## philosophical (Jul 15, 2022)

Somebody in the week said Truss is just like one of those Thunderbirds puppets.
She is hilarious.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 15, 2022)

Not watching. Has Truss mentioned cheese, apples or pork yet?


----------



## LDC (Jul 15, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Not watching. Has Truss mentioned cheese, apples or pork yet?



Her dress is made of bacon and she's got a cheese hat on. Probably.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 15, 2022)

LDC said:


> How the fuck is Truss in charge of anything more than a packed lunch


----------



## philosophical (Jul 15, 2022)

Please please let Truss win this malarkey in the end.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

LDC said:


> Her dress is made of bacon and she's got a cheese hat on. Probably.


I had a student once back when I taught Art who made a dress out of ham.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Is Tugendhat wearing a military tie?


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

ok enough ov the trust vom.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 15, 2022)

LOL 100% distrust of politicians in the audience poll.

The time is ripe comrades.


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

Oh great the trans stuff.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Mordaunt giving Badenoch the evils.


----------



## maomao (Jul 15, 2022)

chilango said:


> Mordaunt giving Badenoch the evils.


She's not short on evil anyway.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 15, 2022)

Is it worth watching on catch up?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

Some people reckon Badenoch is tasked with attacking Truss and Mordaunt in these debates and will come out for Sunak after the next round of voting.


----------



## campanula (Jul 15, 2022)

Christ, not putting on  a debate between callous nitwits - watching the women's football, instead.


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

Dont clap that you dolts


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Is it worth watching on catch up?


No


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2022)

I posted these in the pond thread but I made a thing


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 15, 2022)

campanula said:


> Christ, not putting on  a debate between callous nitwits - watching the women's football, instead.



I had a misplaced desire to find out who three of them were.

I lasted 15 minutes.


----------



## belboid (Jul 15, 2022)

chilango said:


> I had a student once back when I taught Art who made a dress out of ham.


You taught Lady Gaga??!!


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Goodness they're economically illiterate aren't they?

Though I do love how they're knifing each other already.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Goodness they're economically illiterate aren't they?

Though I do love how they're knifing each other already.


----------



## Spandex (Jul 15, 2022)

Mordaunt says she is not a candidate of “tax and spend” but of “growth”.

Well fuck, I bet Cameron/Osborne, May/Hammond and Johnson/Sunak are kicking themselves they didn't think of that over the last decade+ of stagnation.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 15, 2022)

Oh god I managed about five minutes of that. Truss wants to bring back monetarism. Spoiler alert: It doesn't work.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Oh god I managed about five minutes of that. Truss wants to bring back monetarism. Spoiler alert: It doesn't work.



And what that fails it'll be back to the Falklands I suppose.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 15, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> And what that fails it'll be back to the Falklands I suppose.


And then the min... oh they're all gone.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Absolute sociopaths. Today, of all days, lining up to get rid of the Green Levy 'cos, well, tax is theft or something.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 15, 2022)

Was going to watch but channel 4 won’t let me cast live tv from the app (I’ve had to disconnect my BT box from the aerial tonight for boring reasons) and I’m not keen enough to watch on catch up.


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Badenoch looks really, really bored with actual detail.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2022)

Magic money tree


----------



## belboid (Jul 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> Oh great the trans stuff.


Watching half hour late…. Mordaunt thinks she can have a vasectomy??


----------



## LDC (Jul 15, 2022)

belboid said:


> Watching half hour late…. Mordaunt thinks she can have a vasectomy??



What? Did you you mishear mastectomy?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2022)

Wtf is penny on about


----------



## scalyboy (Jul 15, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I posted these in the pond thread but I made a thing View attachment 332477View attachment 332478


She'd get my vote for sure


----------



## belboid (Jul 15, 2022)

LDC said:


> What? Did you you mishear mastectomy?


Aah, that would make rather more sense (mrsb also thought vas I’ll just add in my embarrassed defence)


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2022)

Household verdict here: “they’re all worse than that whatshername…Theresa May”


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Magic money tree



Playing all the hits.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2022)

scalyboy said:


> She'd get my vote for sure


I know, she'd certainly be more competent


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 15, 2022)

Mordaunt is just May 2.0 - she even sounds the same.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2022)

Tugs giving it the 'I WAS IN THE ARMY YOU KNOW'


----------



## LDC (Jul 15, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Tugs giving it the 'I WAS IN THE ARMY YOU KNOW'



Yeah, he's totally a stuck (and quite boring) record!

What time is it Tom?

Well, did I tell you about the time I was in Afghanistan?


----------



## LDC (Jul 15, 2022)

Mordaunt competent and comes across well, Sunak competent but slightly too slick. The others are ridiculous.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 15, 2022)

So I've watched them all , my view , Tugenhat has done OK (easy for him as he isn't Boris tainted) Mordaunt hasn't fucked up , Truss looks terrified (so has fucked up) Rishi has played it safe , Badenoch has been underwhelming.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 15, 2022)

Sunak is leagues ahead in style. Best case scenario is Mordaunt v Sunak. Truss, predictably an absolute trainwreck.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 15, 2022)

Tugendhat favourite song is “In the Army now” by Status Quo


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2022)

Some of these have the answer


----------



## chilango (Jul 15, 2022)

Why are they bothering to address us? We don't get a vote.


----------



## LDC (Jul 15, 2022)

£10 it'll be Mordaunt as the next PM.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2022)

She's awful


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

They’re all awful. In one way or another. But yeah I think it will be mordant. I already thought that three days ago. But you know.


----------



## Supine (Jul 15, 2022)

Truss was terrible. Of all she’s my least favourite!


----------



## killer b (Jul 15, 2022)

I also have thought mordant will win ever since all the polls started saying she was going to win.


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

No need to correct the spelling I don’t think…


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

killer b said:


> I also have thought mordant will win ever since all the polls started saying she was going to win.



Well all the polls have been posted are graphics. So I wasn’t going by them. She’s just a, not tainted by the Johnson regime. And b, is not zealous or unable to sound human.


----------



## xenon (Jul 15, 2022)

Yes I know she was in the cabinet. But not for long. Not in the last few months whilst everything.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 15, 2022)

Mordaunt is the cleanskin isn’t she


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2022)

What does this mean


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 15, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> What does this mean  View attachment 332489



MRI is fucking amazing.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 15, 2022)




----------



## Knotted (Jul 15, 2022)

Truss's deficit spending to cut taxes was interesting. And it will fuck Starmer up. I think they'll probably vote her in - she'll have the backing the parliamentary right and that'll be enough to see her into the last round and she should trounce Sunak with the membership.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




Jesus christ but she's tragic isn't she.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 15, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Jesus christ but she's tragic isn't she.



We’ll have a PM whose best skill is cosplaying as another PM


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> We’ll have a PM whose best skill is cosplaying as another PM



And she's not even good at that. Just looks like a halfwit in Maggie drag.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 15, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> And she's not even good at that. Just looks like a halfwit in Maggie drag.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 15, 2022)

belboid said:


> Watching half hour late…. Mordaunt thinks she can have a vasectomy??


But she'll still be a woman if she does. 
I thought I'd misheard.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 15, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Mordaunt is the cleanskin isn’t she


Tommy Tug is the cleanskin, Mordaunt is still a minister.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 15, 2022)




----------



## killer b (Jul 15, 2022)

I don't believe they managed to find 1000 normal voters to watch it


----------



## Raheem (Jul 15, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



What normal people think is not the immediately relevant thing, though.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 15, 2022)

WTF is normal!?


----------



## magneze (Jul 15, 2022)

Normal people were probably watching the football.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 15, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> We’ll have a PM whose best skill is cosplaying as another PM



She’s got some work to do. Thatcher was a formidable, skilled and relentless class fighter. Truss can barely string two words together coherently.

I remain fascinated by the genuine head the ball in the contest, Badenoch, but thought she dialled the lunacy down tonight. If the insurgent right is capable of thinking clearly they’ll dump Truss for her in the next round


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> If the insurgent right is capable of thinking clearly they’ll dump Truss for her in the next round



Very big if.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 15, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Very big if.



Yup. But nobody in their right mind could have watched that and thought Truss is electable. It was car crash stuff. Mordaunt was pitiful as well. As it stands they are likely to be the two in the run off.

I guess we’re about to find out whether the Tory Party is still obsessively focussed on winning elections or not.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 15, 2022)

magneze said:


> Normal people were probably watching the football.


Which match was this then?


----------



## Supine (Jul 15, 2022)

The BBC have decided their top three


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 15, 2022)

Supine said:


> The BBC have decided their top three
> 
> View attachment 332509


Can someone photoshop the slogan "From Here to Oblivion" in the background of this picture?


----------



## Wilf (Jul 15, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Which match was this then?


England 5 NI Protocol 0


----------



## two sheds (Jul 15, 2022)

settled the Northern Ireland question


----------



## two sheds (Jul 15, 2022)




----------



## Raheem (Jul 16, 2022)

Supine said:


> The BBC have decided their top three
> 
> View attachment 332509


I hope they did Trans Europe Express.


----------



## Dandred (Jul 16, 2022)

Anyone got a link to the full C4 debate?


----------



## andysays (Jul 16, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> She’s got some work to do. Thatcher was a formidable, skilled and relentless class fighter. Truss can barely string two words together coherently.
> 
> I remain fascinated by the genuine head the ball in the contest, Badenoch, but thought she dialled the lunacy down tonight. *If the insurgent right is capable of thinking clearly they’ll dump Truss for her in the next round*



I don't think this will happen.

Lord Frost wrote in the Telegraph the other day that Badenoch should stand down in favour of Truss, and there have been similar calls from others. Be interesting to see if that changes now, but I doubt it.


----------



## Supine (Jul 16, 2022)

Dandred said:


> Anyone got a link to the full C4 debate?





			https://www.channel4.com/programmes/britains-next-pm-the-conservative-debate


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 16, 2022)

Supine said:


> The BBC have decided their top three
> 
> View attachment 332509


Isn't that the old 15 to 1 gameshow set up adapted for the mad, bad, sad, deluded and disfunctional 5?


----------



## bimble (Jul 16, 2022)

Has he got any chance tugendhat ? seems like he would if the people who get to choose now were thinking about the next GE.


----------



## Combustible (Jul 16, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I remain fascinated by the genuine head the ball in the contest, Badenoch, but thought she dialled the lunacy down tonight. If the insurgent right is capable of thinking clearly they’ll dump Truss for her in the next round


Shades of Andrea Leadsom


----------



## Dandred (Jul 16, 2022)

Supine said:


> https://www.channel4.com/programmes/britains-next-pm-the-conservative-debate


Bugger only for Uk residents


----------



## andysays (Jul 16, 2022)

Some encouragement in this article for those of us who are hoping this contest will involve plenty of blue on blue action, whoever eventually becomes the leader.

Tory leadership race: Stakes high as debate exposes rifts​


> there is an important ideological debate among the candidates over tax, which sometimes boiled over in the exchanges between Rishi Sunak and Ms Truss. Mr Sunak wants to portray himself as a fiscal realist. Ms Truss wants to be seen as a low tax Tory.
> 
> We saw a more combative, less robotic side to Mr Sunak, as he launched a defence of his economic stance. He was highly critical of Ms Truss, saying her plans to cut taxes were a fairy tale and she should be more honest about the impact of her strategy to borrow money and pay back Covid debt over time. Ms Truss criticised Mr Sunak for putting up national insurance and corporation tax when he was at the Treasury...
> 
> ...


----------



## ska invita (Jul 16, 2022)

Dandred said:


> Bugger only for Uk residents


here you go

link


----------



## teqniq (Jul 16, 2022)

Lol:


----------



## brogdale (Jul 16, 2022)

From twitter:


----------



## ska invita (Jul 16, 2022)

brogdale said:


> From twitter:
> 
> View attachment 332560



Follow Your Leader


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 16, 2022)

When you don't have any "brand  style" of your own and have to mimic Thatcher


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2022)

brogdale said:


> From twitter:
> 
> View attachment 332560


When will Truss do that wasteland picture?


----------



## prunus (Jul 16, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> When will Truss do that wasteland picture?
> View attachment 332565



Her whole career is a performance art representation of it.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 16, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> When will Truss do that wasteland picture?
> View attachment 332565





It's a bit shit, but I don't have photoshop.


----------



## strung out (Jul 16, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> When will Truss do that wasteland picture?
> View attachment 332565


Waiting for her to recreate this one


----------



## chilango (Jul 16, 2022)

chilango said:


> It looks like Tom Tugendhat is preparing to launch his own range aimed at scared Tory boomers prepping for reign of "Socialist Sunak".
> 
> It'll be called "Ready to Serve".


Also posted in the military rations thread.

Not sure where it fits best tbh.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 16, 2022)

Such choice. So wow


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2022)

Just found out Tugendtwat had a plan to deport _all_ Russian nationals from the UK. In retaliation for Putin launching an illegal invasion of a sovereign state. Just like Tugendhat and his army chums did. Twice.


----------



## Sue (Jul 16, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Just found out Tugendtwat had a plan to deport _all_ Russian nationals from the UK. In retaliation for Putin launching an illegal invasion of a sovereign state. Just like Tugendhat and his army chums did. Twice.


Even the ones who seem a bit less crazy are crazy. What a time to be alive.


----------



## maomao (Jul 16, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Just found out Tugendtwat had a plan to deport _all_ Russian nationals from the UK. In retaliation for Putin launching an illegal invasion of a sovereign state. Just like Tugendhat and his army chums did. Twice.


The army ones always have that veneer of competence that the other's lack but you have to remember that they're basically okay with running around killing people all the fucking time. It would be like putting Harold Shipman in charge of the country.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 16, 2022)

maomao said:


> The army ones always have that veneer of competence that the other's lack but you have to remember that they're basically okay with running around killing people all the fucking time. It would be like putting Harold Shipman in charge of the country.


also they do such a great job of it - so many success stories


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 16, 2022)

Sunak meeting and greeting on Teesside today - at least I hope he knows it's Teesside and not Tyneside.



He clearly said to his people 'find me the most gammony person under 40 you can to stand in front of' - enter Tory mayor Ben Houchen.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 16, 2022)

bimble said:


> Has he got any chance tugendhat ? seems like he would if the people who get to choose now were thinking about the next GE.


He comes across as vaguely sensible so he's definitely going to lose


----------



## ouirdeaux (Jul 16, 2022)

Look what happened to Rory Stewart.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> Look what happened to Rory Stewart.



Did the exorcism finally take?


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Sunak meeting and greeting on Teesside today - at least I hope he knows it's Teesside and not Tyneside.
> 
> View attachment 332615
> 
> He clearly said to his people 'find me the most gammony person under 40 you can to stand in front of' - enter Tory mayor Ben Houchen.


Well, he's said he doesn't know any working class people. 

Anyway, fucking hell, if only I'd known the cunt was visiting up here,  I'd have nipped out and shouted _Cunt_. Even in this heat.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 16, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Sunak meeting and greeting on Teesside today - at least I hope he knows it's Teesside and not Tyneside.
> 
> View attachment 332615
> 
> He clearly said to his people 'find me the most gammony person under 40 you can to stand in front of' - enter Tory mayor Ben Houchen.



Can’t wait for them to campaign in Liverpool


----------



## kabbes (Jul 16, 2022)

I’m torn between wanting the most most insane one because it will fuck up their popularity, and wanting the least most insane one because, well, who wants at least two years of being governed by the most insane one?


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 16, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Well, he's said he doesn't know any working class people.
> 
> Anyway, fucking hell, if only I'd known the cunt was visiting up here,  I'd have nipped out and shouted _Cunt_. Even in this heat.



Especially in this heat - imagine how much more upsetting it is to have 'Cunt!' shouted at you when you're already all hot and thirsty and irritable.


----------



## moochedit (Jul 16, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I’m torn between wanting the most most insane one because it will fuck up their popularity, and wanting the least most insane one because, well, who wants at least two years of being governed by the most insane one?



Thing is the most insane could get chosen and then they still win the next election anyway    so the least insane (or slightly less evil than the others) might be best?  

No idea which one that is though as i know fuck all about the candidates.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 16, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I’m torn between wanting the most most insane one because it will fuck up their popularity, and wanting the least most insane one because, well, who wants at least two years of being governed by the most insane one?



Truss - valiantly combining insanity with incompetence, so she could continue to make them look like bad while also being the least capable of implementing any of their stupid, nasty ideas.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 16, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Thing is the most insane could get chosen and then they still win the next election anyway    so the least insane (or slightly less evil than the others) might be best?
> 
> No idea which one that is though as i know fuck all about the candidates.



I suppose the hope is that voters will be less likely to want another 'character' after voting for one last time turned out the way it did. And Starmer probably has more of an edge against a mad one than he does against someone who's competent but pointless like him.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 16, 2022)

Not sure why a military background adds to someones capabilities but suppose it plays well to the blue faithful


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 16, 2022)

Suppose we then have to hope Truss or Mordaunt gets it? Insane but shit


----------



## bimble (Jul 16, 2022)

i've got a bad feeling about the next bit, like the bit where people can't eat and keep warm because everything costs twice what it did last year, so the least hilarious nutter would be better just now, i think, not really sure which that is though.


----------



## A380 (Jul 16, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I’m torn between wanting the most most insane one because it will fuck up their popularity, and wanting the least most insane one because, well, who wants at least two years of being governed by the most insane one?



This^^


----------



## A380 (Jul 16, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I suppose the hope is that voters will be less likely to want another 'character' after voting for one last time turned out the way it did. And Starmer probably has more of an edge against a mad one than he does against someone who's competent but pointless like him.



At least they will have met and worked with people who aren’t entirely upper middle class or upper class. More so for regulars than reservists.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 16, 2022)

nothing seems as far away as the winter  at the minute but it will be crippling for many. i dont expect the administration doing much about it


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2022)

I've just seen tugintohat's military experience described as 'doing politics for the green slime* in afghanistan' and 'wouldn't know an AK from a PK' lol
*military intelligence

its all fiddling while we burn, and later freeze. Bleakest tory leadership election I've ever seen, literal thatcher cosplay being the least of it


----------



## Combustible (Jul 16, 2022)

Mordaunt clearly feeling the need to take hardline positions.


----------



## Sue (Jul 16, 2022)

Combustible said:


> Mordaunt clearly feeling the need to take hardline positions.
> View attachment 332694


Enjoying his use of 'levelling' there.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 16, 2022)

Combustible said:


> Mordaunt clearly feeling the need to take hardline positions.
> View attachment 332694




The beatings will continue until morale improves


----------



## JimW (Jul 16, 2022)

Mordaunt has a vision for Stoke on Trent


----------



## bimble (Jul 16, 2022)

Combustible said:


> Mordaunt clearly feeling the need to take hardline positions.
> View attachment 332694


He will go far, jack will. Seems to have misspelled his own name as well (looked him up just to check if he’s 12 years old or just looks it). People really will vote for any fucking thing


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 16, 2022)

To be fair there are certain areas of Stoke where that would be an improvement.


----------



## killer b (Jul 16, 2022)

I liked Stoke when I visited - nothing wrong with it except decade after decade of barely managed economic decline.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 16, 2022)

JimW said:


> Mordaunt has a vision for Stoke on Trent
> View attachment 332696


High time they got trams, tbf.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2022)

Combustible said:


> Mordaunt clearly feeling the need to take hardline positions.
> View attachment 332694



Isn't this the guy who turned into Vecna?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 16, 2022)




----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 16, 2022)

I can't imagine there have been that many big naval battles since 2010 anyway, so "fought" is a strange choice of verb.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 16, 2022)

And doesn't say which side she was on.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I can't imagine there have been that many big naval battles since 2010 anyway, so "fought" is a strange choice of verb.


she scrapped with some other rn personnel so technically she has fought in the navy


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2022)

two sheds said:


> And doesn't say which side she was on.


The do you know who I am side


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 16, 2022)

Big interview with Truss in the Telegraph. Hopefully this works, it's a paywall breaker.




			https://txtify.it/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/16/liz-truss-want-biggest-change-economic-policy-30-years/


----------



## A380 (Jul 16, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I can't imagine there have been that many big naval battles since 2010 anyway, so "fought" is a strange choice of verb.



12 snakebites in the Portsmouth spoons and she put two marines in the hospital before having it on her toes before the crushers turned up.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 16, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



It’s a typo

She *thought* she was in the navy


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 16, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



She did fight in the navy as their was no combat, so I heard of bending the truth a bit, but that is ridiculous


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 17, 2022)

What’s the female version of Walter?


----------



## Smangus (Jul 17, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> What’s the female version of Walter?


Lizzie Trussie.


----------



## wow (Jul 17, 2022)

editor said:


> New posters who add links to their posts are automatically out into a moderation queue to prevent spamming. This site is run by unpaid volunteers so I'd say 2 hours isn't a bad wait at all.


Thanks for explaining. Makes sense. Sorry for being an impatient arse


----------



## Raheem (Jul 17, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> What’s the female version of Walter?


Waltress, I suppose.


----------



## DownwardDog (Jul 17, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




She's since been promoted to Captain in the RNR. Same rank as Robin Knox-Johnston. LOL.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 17, 2022)

Still... at least she didnt dress up as the enemy and get shot by her own side


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 17, 2022)

Believe round 2 is tonight on ITV


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Jul 17, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Believe round 2 is tonight on ITV


So, raised blood pressure during an unprecedented heatwave. Ambulance service overwhelmed and hospitals barely coping. Not a good idea. No telly for me.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 17, 2022)

Climate chief Alok Sharma warns: I may quit if new PM dumps net zero pledge
					

The cabinet minister and Cop26 president could resign if the new Tory leader fails to commit to a strong green agenda




					www.theguardian.com
				




Tucked away in this article about Alok Sharma and net zero is this gobbet 



> In a surprise development last night a survey of 850 Tory members put Badenoch in the lead on 31%, with Truss second on 20%, Mordaunt third on 18%, Sunak fourth on 17% and Tugendhat fifth on 10%. The survey for the ConservativeHome website was taken yesterday after Friday’s Channel 4 TV debate.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 17, 2022)

The membership has shifted somewhat!  



> While Tom Tugendhat won the public opinion poll after last night’s debate, this is a race that will be decided by Tory members – and they seem to have a new winner (for now at least). A new ConservativeHome poll has seen Penny Mordaunt knocked off the top spot by Kemi Badenoch – who now has a double-digit lead. In a rapidly-moving contest, it’s quite significant. LINK






Bit of a shock with the amount of support for Badenoch, and if Sunak and Mordaunt end-up on the ballot paper, it could go either way.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The membership has shifted somewhat!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Given how regularly the Tory party has managed to surprise us with its stupidity, I'd say that there's every chance of Badenoch grabbing it...


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## existentialist (Jul 17, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>



They're all just winging it, aren't they?


----------



## kabbes (Jul 17, 2022)

Imagine the self-belief needed to think that you are the best person to lead the whole country. I’m one of the most arrogant people I know and even I don’t have that kind of self-belief.

Now imagine having that self-belief in the face of _no evidence whatsoever_ that you are competent for the role. In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. But you believe it anyway.

It’s not an encouraging thought.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 17, 2022)

existentialist said:


> They're all just winging it, aren't they?



Thick as pigshit grifters - and this is their finest.


----------



## philosophical (Jul 17, 2022)

Mordaunt is a vacuous racist cunt approaching her work like painting by numbers.
If she wins it won’t threaten very much. Let her win for all I care, but most of all let Truss win, Truss makes Lady Penelope look like a fluid intellectual genius.


----------



## JimW (Jul 17, 2022)

Tory membership drawn moth to flame like by most poisonous of loons on offer.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jul 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Bit of a shock with the amount of support for Badenoch, and if Sunak and Mordaunt end-up on the ballot paper, it could go either way.


Based on just watching the few clips from the first debate on the news, Badenoch seemed like the most out of her depth candidate - interesting she's the most popular with members.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 17, 2022)

She is off her face

Alas not on drugs


----------



## JimW (Jul 17, 2022)

Think tank cuntery graduate isn't she? Hothoused in the febrile atmosphere where Mises is guru.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)

I'M CALLING YOU OUT!


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 17, 2022)

FML


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)

Go to the back of the progressive stack, Penny


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)

Theresa May shares some of Penny's woke views but y'all not ready for this conversation.


----------



## JimW (Jul 17, 2022)

Mordaunt having to backpeddle from woke statement that she wouldn't beat orphans and puppies with sticks.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 17, 2022)

Comrade Truss would've been sent packing to the gulag for her sabotage of the five year plan:


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 17, 2022)

So bosses get to make more profit through tax loopholes and the increased workplace risks for the employee thro reduced standards give the boss a bit of a top up. Nice


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)

Penny is another privileged white woman who needs to stay in her lane with her problematic wokeness 

- Liz Truss and Suella Braverman, yesterday


----------



## TopCat (Jul 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> I do kind of want to know who the alleged s&m candidate/s are but at the same time I’m pretty sure it’ll just be the same as ever age old traditional pastime of paying someone to do punishment like you remember from your days at boarding school etc. Boring even in their supposed eccentricities these people.


My pal who was with her at Oxford say it’s Liz Truss me up.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)

Tax👏 cuts👏 fanatics 👏 to 👏the👏 front👏 of👏 the👏 queue


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2022)

Alistair Campbell in the Guardian:



> I can’t, for example, imagine any of them being in the same room as Margaret Thatcher. They wouldn’t have been allowed to carry her handbag.



He's a weapons-grade scumbag himself, of course, but I don't think he's wrong about this.

(Don't read the second half of it where they talk about 'Tony' though, if you want to keep your Sunday lunch down.)


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 17, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Alistair Campbell in the Guardian:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hilariously revealing Guardian/Campbell debating point *Your new podcast with Rory Stewart is presented as an argument across the political divide. But surely the divide now is between politicians who accept problems as complex, and those who will promise people any nonsense to get elected? *

I'd imagine us thickos would have wrongly assumed that the real divide in the 21st Century is between a small group of unimaginably rich people and their flunkeys and the rest of us, but no.

Not only does this type of smug superiority ensure that the former group always lose popular votes when they participate in them, but the rise of the latter group is directly created by the blowback created by the assumptions and the historical policy decision of the former group.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 17, 2022)

opinions on Rory himself aside, he is smart and engaging enough to listen to *


* your mileage may vary


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## LDC (Jul 17, 2022)

Some of this stuff is so wild I honestly have to read the headlines and articles a few times, and even then I'm often not sure if they've been genuinely said, are fake, or some kind of elaborate trolling of the whole UK population.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 17, 2022)

Brexit II: This Time Brexit means re-Brexit


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2022)

permanent brexit


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 17, 2022)

Brexit 2: We're going to need a bigger protocol.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 17, 2022)

Crush the saboteurs. Even though we are the saboteurs and have been all along.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 17, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I can't imagine there have been that many big naval battles since 2010 anyway, so "fought" is a strange choice of verb.


Those Somali pirates aren't going to shoot themselves...


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 17, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Comrade Truss would've been sent packing to the gulag for her sabotage of the five year plan:



It's the 'Ah shite' look in her eyes that makes it work


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2022)

23 Hacks for Redoing Brexit on a Tight Budget. Number 14 Will Shock You!


----------



## Lucy Fur (Jul 17, 2022)

Just watched the C4 hustings. One of them said, "for those lucky enough to be able to pay their bills" Fucks sake, when did that become an acceptable sentence. I thought you were "lucky enough" to have a second holiday, or a playstation 4, an I phone or maybe even lucky enough to have choice. Now you're "lucky enough" if you can survive. Fucking grim 🤬


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 17, 2022)

TopCat said:


> My pal who was with her at Oxford say it’s Liz Truss me up.



Moar details plz!


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## Wilf (Jul 17, 2022)

frogwoman said:


>



Part of me thinks this is just a weird rabbit hole these scumbags have gone done, a Trumpian insanity that is both ideological and anti-life at the same time. But then the people who are dying of the heat are very much the same people who died in their (surplus) tens of thousands in their ideological and anti-life Covid mismanagement.  But the fuckers are going further and further out - it's not just anti-expert nonsense, it's worse, something very dangerous at the heart of our political class.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 17, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Part of me thinks this is just a weird rabbit hole these scumbags have gone done, a Trumpian insanity that is both ideological and anti-life at the same time. But then the people who are dying of the heat are very much the same people who died in their (surplus) tens of thousands in their ideological and anti-life Covid mismanagement.  But the fuckers are going further and further out - it's not just anti-expert nonsense, it's worse, something very dangerous at the heart of our political class.


I think it's a drive toward libertarianism. But Covid, and the cause of the heatwave all require trust in others and collective action. Experts are all lefties in gammon eyes, as being thoughtful, analytical and listening to others. But that's just opposite to libertarianism.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 17, 2022)

I think the right generally has gone considerably more down the rabbit hole than is immediately apparent in political conversation, at least in part because they've been in charge for so long that they've not needed to talk about it. Some of it has been unveiled by the conversations around the leadership campaign but by no means all. Other elements can be found below the line on right-wing media, where some genuinely unhinged shit can be found which isn't being challenged by "sensible" Tories. 

If they lose an election I'd not be in the least bit surprised if their language takes a much more aggressively bonkers turn.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 17, 2022)

This rabbit hole wasn’t gone down much at all under Cameron or May, it was Johnson who specifically decided to leverage it politically.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 17, 2022)

Official propaganda from the Sunak camp:


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 17, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Those Somali pirates aren't going to shoot themselves...



Unless there's another one of those ridiculous woke 'war crimes' investigations, in which they absolutely did shoot themselves.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)

You know the Tories always went on about that note left by Alastair Darling after their 2010 victory saying 'Sorry there's no money'? What is their note to the Labour chancellor going to say? 'Fuck you?'


----------



## Sue (Jul 17, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> You know the Tories always went on about that note left by Alastair Darling saying 'Sorry there's no money'? What is their note to the Labour chancellor going to say? 'Fuck you?'


Liam Byrne.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 17, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> You know the Tories always went on about that note left by Alastair Darling saying 'Sorry there's no money'? What is their note to the Labour chancellor going to say? 'Fuck you?'



Just a big steaming shit on the desk I expect.

That being said, if it's Rachel Reeves, fair enough tbh.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 17, 2022)

There will be no note, but the drawer will have vomit in it.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 17, 2022)

Tugendhat just said something like "We need to enable families to grow their own economies."


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jul 17, 2022)

Rishi seems the most convincing in the latest ITV debate. Surely someone who has been chancellor during a pandemic will get most votes. The Economy stupid!


----------



## Petcha (Jul 17, 2022)

It's fairly clear watching this who the final two will be.

The system is fucked though. 200,000 tories are going to choose between them as to who is going to lead us for the next two years.

And dear god, Liz Truss comes across as a vile human.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 17, 2022)

I've just switched on. Tuggers ' it's all about trust, I was in the army and we had to have trust in our commanders' . Switched off.
According to the twitter these are even on the wrong side?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2022)

Here's  Sunaks austerity pitch


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 17, 2022)

I’ve served in the salt mines of Mordor!


----------



## LDC (Jul 17, 2022)

Badenoch is a loon, but she actually comes across pretty well, I can see why many of the Tory party like her.

Poor Tom, all he can say is, "But I was on the frontlines...".

Oh, great trans stuff again, ffs.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 17, 2022)

Tom's constant references to his military past are pretty embarrassing


----------



## LDC (Jul 17, 2022)

Watching it on the train in Germany with shit reception, the halting stuttering breaks and spinning wheel on Truss's forehead give it an added air of impending lunacy. _What on earth are they going to say next?_

Fuck me the host is really annoying.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 17, 2022)

So how much would a 90 minute Party Election Broadcast cost Labour?

Shit the bed, these people are awful - of the five, Tugendhat is the least grotesque on a human level, but I think Sunak probably takes the 'and in an emergency, who of these people would you leave in charge of an empty packet of crisps?' prize.


Truss is simply astonishing, and not so much in a good way.


----------



## nottsgirl (Jul 17, 2022)

They’re all just so awful.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 17, 2022)

I quite like this round where they get to burn an opponent with a question they clearly don’t want to answer


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 17, 2022)

Sunak quickly regretting that question.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jul 17, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> They’re all just so awful.


Agreed, I somehow want Truss to win though, it would make Starmer's job easier !


----------



## JimW (Jul 17, 2022)

Sunak seems light enough on his feet in this mutual backstab round.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 17, 2022)

Liz Truss is as blinky as Ben Swain on Newsnight!


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 17, 2022)

JimW said:


> Sunak seems light enough on his feet in this mutual backstab round.


Skills honed in the Wykehamist debating chamber no doubt


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 17, 2022)

I'm having a good day.. I'm not watching it.


----------



## LDC (Jul 17, 2022)

Has Truss had a stroke at some point?


----------



## nottsgirl (Jul 17, 2022)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Agreed, I somehow want Truss to win though, it would make Starmer's job easier !


I want Rishi Sunak to win on basic competence but any of the others would be good for Labour. I’m kind of over this run of Tory incompetence though and it doesn’t seem to be working too well for Labour anyway.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 17, 2022)

Sunak's clearly the most qualified to take the top job but I highly doubt the 200,000 tories voting on this will go for him.


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 17, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> I want Rishi Sunak to win on basic competence but any of the others would be good for Labour. I’m kind of over this run of Tory incompetence though and it doesn’t seem to be working too well for Labour anyway.



The voting public doesn't always make a good choice. We all know that


----------



## JimW (Jul 17, 2022)

No need to sit down with Putin when his bagman has already dropped the money off at Conservative Central Office.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 17, 2022)

I have to say I much preferred Anne Robinson doing the Weakest Link


----------



## Petcha (Jul 17, 2022)

Tom managed to avoid shoehorning in his military experience into the climate change question there


----------



## JimW (Jul 17, 2022)

Though the inheritance Sunak leaves his two girls will also be several million quid so maybe he can fuck the environment a bit longer.


----------



## Fuzzy (Jul 17, 2022)

what is it with truss and her hand movements?


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2022)

They're all fucking awful. Just total dross - it's like a lineup of the very _last_ people you'd pick to run a country. No vision, no conviction (apart from Sunak's penalty notice, that is). I don't care any more which of them gets it.


----------



## nottsgirl (Jul 17, 2022)

You’re not joking about Tom “I was in the army” Tuggendhat are you?


----------



## Knotted (Jul 17, 2022)

In my (limited of course) experience Tories actually really think Sunak is a kind of socialist or at least a "wet" because of the furlough scheme. He is in fact a dedicated Thatcherite of course but I really don't think they'll vote for him. Also he is simply bad at politicking and he's both associated with Boris Johnson and associated with BJ's downfall. It looks like he'll surely make it to the final round though, so that leaves either Truss or Mordaunt as the next PM.


----------



## flypanam (Jul 17, 2022)

Whats all this calling Tories by their first names? Surely they are all known as gobshites.

The only thing fascinating about this contest is how useless this lot are and how much the tory faithful have been radicalised. temping to report them all to Prevent.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2022)

Fuzzy said:


> what is it with truss and her hand movements?


apeing thatchers gestures from old videos of her speeches seems likely.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 17, 2022)

I can never remember how to spell Tom's surname that's all


----------



## JimW (Jul 17, 2022)

You'd have to hope truss wins because outside the 200,000 headbangers in the Tory Party surely no-one able to tie their own shoelaces would vote for her.


----------



## contadino (Jul 17, 2022)

JimW said:


> You'd have to hope truss wins because outside the 200,000 headbangers in the Tory Party surely no-one able to tie their own shoelaces would vote for her.


There'll be a lot of velcro shoes come the next general election.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Jul 17, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> So, raised blood pressure during an unprecedented heatwave. Ambulance service overwhelmed and hospitals barely coping. Not a good idea. No telly for me.


I thought I'd watch Antiques Roadshow instead. Fiona Bruce! Aaaaarrrgghh!


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jul 17, 2022)

That was SO bad 
Makes me feel wholly justified for sticking with my own shit job instead of facing up to an intense phobia around having to 'sell myself' in job interviews.


----------



## Knotted (Jul 17, 2022)

Also one of the things that's very peculiar is this anti-woke thing. It's not that's it's a bad idea from an "appeal to the Tory base" point of view. The weird thing is that they're treating it as policy, or as stances. What the base want to hear is actual casual racism or transphobia etc. from their would be leaders. For them it shows a plain speaking anti-liberal establishment _character_, and that's what they want - a character. It's all part of the strongman (or woman for that matter) fantasy. I've seen people actually mourning the loss of Johnson, despite the fact he offers nothing. Remember the 2019 manifesto was paper thin. They don't want policy they want a cunt.

Again caveat - my limited experience of these types.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 17, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Also one of the things that's very peculiar is this anti-woke thing. It's not that's it's a bad idea from an "appeal to the Tory base" point of view. The weird thing is that they're treating it as policy, or as stances. What the base want to hear is actual casual racism or transphobia etc. from their would be leaders. For them it shows a plain speaking anti-liberal establishment _character_, and that's what they want - a character. It's all part of the strongman (or woman for that matter) fantasy. I've seen people actually mourning the loss of Johnson, despite the fact he offers nothing. Remember the 2019 manifesto was paper thin. They don't want policy they want a cunt.
> 
> Again caveat - my limited experience of these types.


I think there's a lot in that. I can see how Badenoch could play well, though, with a certain kind of headbanger. _How can I be racist or sexist when I voted for a black woman?_

I'm disappointed her name isn't pronounced 'Bad Enoch'.


----------



## stavros (Jul 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I can never remember how to spell Tom's surname that's all


The same issue did for Jeremy Hunt.


----------



## xenon (Jul 17, 2022)

I couldn't face watching this time.


----------



## agricola (Jul 17, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Also one of the things that's very peculiar is this anti-woke thing. It's not that's it's a bad idea from an "appeal to the Tory base" point of view. The weird thing is that they're treating it as policy, or as stances. What the base want to hear is actual casual racism or transphobia etc. from their would be leaders. For them it shows a plain speaking anti-liberal establishment _character_, and that's what they want - a character. It's all part of the strongman (or woman for that matter) fantasy. I've seen people actually mourning the loss of Johnson, despite the fact he offers nothing. Remember the 2019 manifesto was paper thin. They don't want policy they want a cunt.
> 
> Again caveat - my limited experience of these types.



TBF a lot of it is about indicating an acceptance of the idea of the game of politics according to the media, as in "I will play along".   Disagree with the game, or refuse to play along, and they would get attacked by all those whose careers and power depend on it (as Harry and Meghan have found).


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Also one of the things that's very peculiar is this anti-woke thing. It's not that's it's a bad idea from an "appeal to the Tory base" point of view. The weird thing is that they're treating it as policy, or as stances. What the base want to hear is actual casual racism or transphobia etc. from their would be leaders. For them it shows a plain speaking anti-liberal establishment _character_, and that's what they want - a character. It's all part of the strongman (or woman for that matter) fantasy. I've seen people actually mourning the loss of Johnson, despite the fact he offers nothing. Remember the 2019 manifesto was paper thin. They don't want policy they want a cunt.
> 
> Again caveat - my limited experience of these types.


Didn't Mordaunt and Badenoch come close?


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 17, 2022)

It seems obvious to me that all five of them know the lay of the land, MadBad Kemi and Tom Tug will get chopped next week with Malificient and Lizzie Dizzie Don't fighting it out for the second spot.
It amused Mrs Q when the moderator they asked if anyone would give a job to Boris and wondered if he was watching, Mrs reckons Amazon will be delivering a new TV to No 10 next week if he was.
She reckoned that MadBad Kemi is toxic and was gritting her teeth when Tom Tug kept going on about the Army, he's worse than my Dad she opined.
Rishi Rich definitely comes across as the only half way competent one amongst the lot.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



See I think the temptation is gonna be too much for them.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 17, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> See I think the temptation is gonna be too much for them


The boundary changes haven't been confirmed yet and that's why the reticence exists, I think.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 17, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The boundary changes haven't been confirmed yet and that's why the reticence exists, I think.



There must be a temptation to 'get a fresh democratic mandate from the people' before they balls anything / everything up

but yes, it would suit them to wait until the gerrymandering / voter suppression is complete...


----------



## Knotted (Jul 17, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Didn't Mordaunt and Badenoch come close?



Not from what I saw. Eg. talking about being opposed to self-ID wrt trans rights. Not many people including Tories care about that or even know what it means. I think on an intuitive level they want someone free of influence from the "liberal establishment" not necessarily someone who is particularly illiberal.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I can never remember how to spell Tom's surname that's all


Tuggingcock


----------



## LDC (Jul 17, 2022)

I think the trans stuff is largely symbolic for the Conservative party rather than it being something they particularly care deeply about. When it gets brought up it's just being used as shorthand to show that they have a general reactionary, libertarian, and far right traditional tendency across the board with social issues, rather than the more recent socially liberal bit of the party.


----------



## Spandex (Jul 17, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> I've just switched on. Tuggers ' it's all about trust, I was in the army and we had to have trust in our commanders' . Switched off.
> According to the twitter these are even on the wrong side?



Those medals L to R:

1939 to 1945 Star (ribbon the wrong way round)
Burma Star?
War Medal 1939 - 1945
Defense Medal

Are you allowed to wear medals you haven't earned? Or is Mordaunt much older than she appears?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 17, 2022)

LDC said:


> I think the trans stuff is largely symbolic for the Conservative party rather than it being something they particularly care deeply about.



I don't think the candidates care about anything other than power and money, the politics requires there to be an 'other' group to stir up hate against, and racism and homophobia don't sell quite as well as they used to.



Spandex said:


> Are you allowed to wear medals you haven't earned? Or is Mordaunt much older than she appears?



i'm not well up enough in things military, but i think at one time it was a criminal offence.  not sure if it still is.  

i think there are circumstances where it's considered acceptable for a widow to wear her late husband's medals, not sure about wearing a late parent / grandparent's medals.  

if she is committing a faux pas (whether it's an offence or not) then i'm surprised that the older tories haven't made a fuss about it yet.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 17, 2022)

Spandex said:


> Those medals L to R:
> 
> 1939 to 1945 Star (ribbon the wrong way round)
> Burma Star?
> ...


You can wear the medals of dead close relatives, but you are supposed to wear them on the other (i.e right) breast.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 17, 2022)

Raheem said:


> You can wear the medals of dead close relatives, but you are supposed to wear them on the other (i.e right) breast.




You can, but what sort of wanker would?


----------



## Raheem (Jul 17, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You can, but what sort of wanker would?


Indeed. 

Although I can imagine sane people doing it if they are attending a veterans parade. Think the Burma Star stopped doing parades about 20 years ago, though.


----------



## LDC (Jul 17, 2022)

Clearly photoshopped?


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 17, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> See I think the temptation is gonna be too much for them.


To potentially lose an 80 seat majority?

The only one currently polling better than Starmer is Sunak, and that's before a four week space where the two candidates slug each other.
OK sometimes a new PM can get a slight honeymoon boost, but I really cannot see any of these candidates risking an early election when there is so much of a hangover from Johnson and pretty bloody internal fight as the background.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 17, 2022)

The medals are photoshopped.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 17, 2022)




----------



## Spandex (Jul 17, 2022)

kebabking said:


> The medals are photoshopped.


Ah! Fucksake fucking Twitter wankers fucking about on Twitter being wankers.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 17, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




Indeed. Imagine seeing all that poverty and lost human talent in Leeds and, having resolved to never let it happen again, drawing the conclusion that the solution was to join the Party responsible for it and become a really shit tribute act to the women who destroyed those lives.

Truss is absolutely barking mad, although I did like her dig at posh boy Sunak at the end of her rambling stupidity


----------



## two sheds (Jul 17, 2022)

Spandex said:


> Ah! Fucksake fucking Twitter wankers fucking about on Twitter being wankers.


AND they've photoshopped them on the wrong side  no attempt at accuracy these days hell in a handcart


----------



## Supine (Jul 17, 2022)

Haha


----------



## Sue (Jul 17, 2022)

I'm amazed how many of you watched this/the last one/both.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 17, 2022)

Supine said:


> Haha



One thing that struck me is Truss saying she would get rid of "Stalinist" housing targets (not in the ITV debate, but previously). Isn't that sort of ruling herself out of being in another government? Realistically, there are surely going to continue to be housing targets, and it's difficult to see how you can defend them having previously said they were Stalinist.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 17, 2022)

I give minimal fucks as to which of the swivel eyed loons the tory party foist upon me, they are all deeply lacking

So I didnt watch and am very pleased to have a convenient precis provided here by you lot

Thanks all


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 17, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Truss saying she would get rid of "Stalinist" housing targets


She must still be smarting about that zero homes built but 200,000 promised. Maybe she wants to knock down affordable housing and build luxury flats for oversees investors to launder their cash through


----------



## LDC (Jul 17, 2022)

Sue said:


> I'm amazed how many of you watched this/the last one/both.



I also slow down at car crashes and often watch horrendous accident footage on the internet.


----------



## elbows (Jul 17, 2022)

Raheem said:


> One thing that struck me is Truss saying she would get rid of "Stalinist" housing targets (not in the ITV debate, but previously). Isn't that sort of ruling herself out of being in another government? Realistically, there are surely going to continue to be housing targets, and it's difficult to see how you can defend them having previously said they were Stalinist.



She is so crap she might try to wriggle around this in future by saying that those targets have gone from Stalin to Mr Bean, which will give Sunak another chance to call her a liberal democrat. Building on this rhetorical trajectory she can go on to claim that Beanist policies will enable her to become the enchanted goose who can compensate for our ruined balance of trade by laying some sort of eggs on a regular basis.

Alternatively she will simply rebrand targets as something else, or implement such horrific policies that the population falls dramatically, removing the need for a big expansion of housing stock. Or, taking conservative values to their extreme, the new targets will be for huts and mansions.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 17, 2022)

Sue said:


> I'm amazed how many of you watched this/the last one/both.



We wouldn’t be able to post our hot takes on here if we’d missed it


----------



## elbows (Jul 17, 2022)

Supine said:


> Haha




At the time of writing Tugendhat has been misgendered in that article:



> Given that every candidate said they wouldn’t have Mr Johnson in their cabinet, maybe Ms Tugendhat had a point.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 17, 2022)

Didn’t watch the vermin-off, but this still of the event keeps making me giggle.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 17, 2022)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 332991Didn’t watch the vermin-off, but this still of the event keeps making me giggle.


incase anyone wants a new facebook banner


----------



## moochedit (Jul 17, 2022)

ska invita said:


> incase anyone wants a new facebook banner



Well it's one way to cut your friends list down i suppose


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 17, 2022)

ska invita said:


> incase anyone wants a new facebook banner



alternative version


----------



## Smangus (Jul 17, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> alternative version
> 
> View attachment 332993



Tried it in my profile , not quite worked but got "cunts" in


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 17, 2022)

Smangus said:


> Tried it in my profile , not quite worked but got "cunts" in



you can do a big profile picture on urban as well as the avatar now (i seem to have done it but can't remember how)


----------



## two sheds (Jul 17, 2022)

Have the three in the middle just heard that the two on the outside are being taken out and shot?


----------



## wow (Jul 17, 2022)

existentialist said:


> They're all just winging it, aren't they?





WhyLikeThis said:


> Thick as pigshit grifters - and this is their finest.


Not at all. They each have a team of advisers working in real-time to feed them the “right answer for me, right now”.

Don’t take their apparent randomness as cluelessness.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2022)

Franz Frogginand has emerged as an outside contender


----------



## two sheds (Jul 17, 2022)

Liz Truss among seven MPs who put Amazon Prime subscription on expenses
					

Members of the online retailer’s premium service pay £79 a year to get quicker delivery and enjoy access to TV shows including The Boys, Star Trek: Picard and Jeremy Clarkson’s The Grand Tour




					www.mirror.co.uk
				






> Members of the online retailer’s premium service pay £79 a year to get quicker delivery and enjoy access to TV shows including The Boys, Star Trek: Picard and Jeremy Clarkson’s The Grand Tour


Is she one of the ones who's said welfare claimants are mollycoddled and can get by with less?


> Newly released expenses data reveals the Foreign Secretary claimed back the £79 annual charge - though a campaign team source insisted it was not intentional.


Unintentionally claimed for Amazon Prime on expenses. Stunningly competent just who we need for Prime Minister


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 17, 2022)

I dont think i've ever seen such a grubby vicious seedy bunch of awful people in one place together. It quite horrifying that thy are all trying to out bastard each other. fuck me

usually you view a politician as a wanker from the off, then look to see if they have any redeeming sparks of humanity about them to see if they can be tolerated -  I dont know where to start with this lot.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 17, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> I dont think i've ever seen such a grubby vicious seedy bunch of awful people in one place together.


----------



## Humberto (Jul 17, 2022)

A hive of ultra-gammon libertarians outbidding themselves to stall the country perpetually. On the plus side they are looking dysfunctional and stepping on countless rakes.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 18, 2022)

kebabking said:


> The medals are photoshopped.




What sort of wanker wears photoshopped medals?


----------



## two sheds (Jul 18, 2022)

I'm still wondering how Sunak gets the idea that cutting taxes which will disproportionally favour the rich while public spending has been cut for years is somehow socialism.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I'm still wondering how Sunak gets the idea that cutting taxes which will disproportionally favour the rich while public spending has been cut for years is somehow socialism.


He practices the socialism of the Sheriff of Nottingham - robbing from the poor to give to the rich


----------



## rekil (Jul 18, 2022)

Trickledown is a little bit socialism. #PlugTheTrickle


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I'm still wondering how Sunak gets the idea that cutting taxes which will disproportionally favour the rich while public spending has been cut for years is somehow socialism.



From the loons who wail about socialism every time someone does anything slightly less evil than, say, bringing back slavery.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 18, 2022)

Sunak talking about issuing new government debt (100% risk-free and normal) as if it's the same as borrowing on a credit card is aggravating. Seems to have gone down well with the faithful though.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 18, 2022)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 332991Didn’t watch the vermin-off, but this still of the event keeps making me giggle.



Is that meant to be Mordaunt's 'I'm a proper veteran, me - senior service and all, not like the cannon fodder next to me. These fists have seen things you people wouldn't believe...' look? She looks like she's about to chin some lass outside a spoons at closing time for smiling at her fella.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I'm still wondering how Sunak gets the idea that cutting taxes which will disproportionally favour the rich while public spending has been cut for years is somehow socialism.




“If you disagree with me it’s socialism/woke/discrimination” is a solid and persistent strategy used wonderfully by the American right and indulged in by uk politicians to


----------



## kabbes (Jul 18, 2022)

I’m just watching the ITV debate this morning. (Didn’t watch the C4 one.). I was expecting Truss to be shit but bloody _hell_ she’s shit. She is like an even less charismatic version of Theresa May. How did she ever reach this level of politics?

They all played into the hands of Sunak by attacking him in his own back yard. Forget being good as a leader, he was the only one that even came out as one iota credible as a politician.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 18, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> “If you disagree with me it’s socialism/woke/discrimination” is a solid and persistent strategy used wonderfully by the American right and indulged in by uk politicians to


Indeed, and they're adding sex offender/pedophile in the US more recently.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 18, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Sunak talking about issuing new government debt (100% risk-free and normal) as if it's the same as borrowing on a credit card is aggravating. Seems to have gone down well with the faithful though.



He is right that borrowing to pay for day to day expenditure (as opposed to borrowing to invest in infrastructure for example) is barmy. Yet, that appears to be the position of Mordaunt. 

Had McDonnell stuck that proposal in the last labour manifesto the media would have gone into meltdown…


----------



## LDC (Jul 18, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I’m just watching the ITV debate this morning. (Didn’t watch the C4 one.). I was expecting Truss to be shit but bloody _hell_ she’s shit. She is like an even less charismatic version of Theresa May. How did she ever reach this level of politics?



Yeah, I feel a bit stupid, I must have not really seen her speak before this latest thing and I'm genuinely shocked at how useless she is.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> (as opposed to borrowing to invest in infrastructure for example)



exactly that ^


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 18, 2022)

Sunak and Truss have pulled out of the next debate on Sky.

Both agreed their exchanges on the C4/ITV debates so far were damaging to the party.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 18, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Sunak and Truss have pulled out of the next debate on Sky.
> 
> Both agreed their exchanges on the C4/ITV debates so far were damaging to the party.



So, it'll be Penny Mordaunt and two blocks of melting ice.

Like C-4 News did with Johnson & Farage.


----------



## JimW (Jul 18, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Sunak and Truss have pulled out of the next debate on Sky.
> 
> Both agreed their exchanges on the C4/ITV debates so far were damaging to the party.


Has Truss further agreed to retire to Johnson's fridge until 2050 at the earliest?


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jul 18, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Sunak and Truss have pulled out of the next debate on Sky.
> 
> Both agreed their exchanges on the C4/ITV debates so far were damaging to the party.



Bring back the tub of lard!


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> He is right that borrowing to pay for day to day expenditure (as opposed to borrowing to invest in infrastructure for example) is barmy. Yet, that appears to be the position of Mordaunt.
> 
> Had McDonnell stuck that proposal in the last labour manifesto the media would have gone into meltdown…



It wasn't barmy during the pandemic, and it's not barmy now.

It comes down to a choice on either being pro tight monetary policy (aka austerity) or pro loose monetary policy (decent public services and well funded NHS)

You can't have both. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

The government can create as much money as it wants to, it can borrow today and repay in 30 years. To constantly compare it to a household budget is playing right into the hands of all the Thatcherites.


----------



## andysays (Jul 18, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Sunak and Truss have pulled out of the next debate on Sky.
> 
> Both agreed their exchanges on the C4/ITV debates so far were damaging to the party.


Do you have a source for that?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> So, it'll be Penny Mordaunt and two blocks of melting ice.
> 
> Like C-4 News did with Johnson & Farage.



But one of the blocks of melting ice won the election.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 18, 2022)

andysays said:


> Do you have a source for that?





> A source in Mr Sunak’s campaign told _The Independent_ he would not take part in Tuesday’s debate, adding: “We are very happy to do more debates if we are lucky enough to get to the next stage, including Sky News”.
> 
> It is also understood Ms Truss had made clear she would only participate in the debate if all candidates have committed to do so.
> 
> In respsonse, the broadcaster said the event has been cancelled, saying: “Two of the three candidates currently leading in the MPs’ ballot – Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss – have confirmed to Sky News that they do not want to take part”.











						Sky News cancel Tory leadership debate after Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss pull out
					

Pair clashed in second debate of the contest on Sunday evening




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## andysays (Jul 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sky News cancel Tory leadership debate after Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss pull out
> 
> 
> Pair clashed in second debate of the contest on Sunday evening
> ...


So they're cancelling the debate rather than going on without Sunak and Truss.

Very disappointing...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 18, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> It wasn't barmy during the pandemic, and it's not barmy now.
> 
> It comes down to a choice on either being pro tight monetary policy (aka austerity) or pro loose monetary policy (decent public services and well funded NHS)
> 
> ...


I don't see any politicians being honest about national debt. In our current set-up, it is necessary - without it people wouldn't have pensions - and also the amount of debt alone isn't the way to measure it - you also need to look at when the debt is due to be repaid to make sense of how sustainable it is (which is one of the places where the credit card analogy falls down).

Can't see that changing. I don't believe Sunak, for instance, doesn't understand the above points, but he's never going to say so in public.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 18, 2022)

“I am personally incapable of engaging in a civil discussion and therefore pulling out of the debate. Vote for me for PM.”

Odd strategy isn’t it.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 18, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Sunak and Truss have pulled out of the next debate on Sky.
> 
> Both agreed their exchanges on the C4/ITV debates so far were damaging to the party.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 18, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> It wasn't barmy during the pandemic, and it's not barmy now.
> 
> It comes down to a choice on either being pro tight monetary policy (aka austerity) or pro loose monetary policy (decent public services and well funded NHS)
> 
> ...



I couldn't disagree more.

In terms of your first point it's just not a binary choice. There is plenty that a government could do to raise income without borrowing for day to day spending. For example, it could introduce a levy on excessive executive pay, it could extend the current windfall tax on energy companies to most of the FTSE 350 (who have increased profits by 74% since 2019), capital gains/unearned income could be taxed at the same rate as income from work, second/multiple home ownership could be heavily taxed etc etc.

On your second point my issue is that the concept of government's just printing money lacks credibility in the real world (as Mordaunt will discover). It would create a prices/wages inflation spiral and Bonds would collapse. Nobody on here - me included - is comparing it to household budgets. Borrowing to invest in infrastructure (and by that I very much mean public services, housing, the NHS, transport, digital etc) on the other hand makes absolute economic sense and re-frames the debate anbd located it in 2022 and not 1982 which is where the Tory leadership debate is.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 18, 2022)

andysays said:


> So they're cancelling the debate rather than going on without Sunak and Truss.
> 
> Very disappointing...


Really fucking damning that they have to admit that any open debate about their 'policy' is damaging to the party...ho hum, it's only the fecking Prime Minister they're choosing, who needs debate about it?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I couldn't disagree more.
> 
> In terms of your first point it's just not a binary choice. There is plenty that a government could do to raise income without borrowing for day to day spending. For example, it could introduce a levy on excessive executive pay, it could extend the current windfall tax on energy companies to most of the FTSE 350 (who have increased profits by 74% since 2019), capital gains/unearned income could be taxed at the same rate as income from work, second/multiple home ownership could be heavily taxed etc etc.
> 
> On your second point my issue is that the concept of government's just printing money lacks credibility in the real world (as Mordaunt will discover). It would create a prices/wages inflation spiral and Bonds would collapse. Nobody on here - me included - is comparing it to household budgets. Borrowing to invest in infrastructure (and by that I very much mean public services, housing, the NHS, transport, digital etc) on the other hand makes absolute economic sense and re-frames the debate anbd located it in 2022 and not 1982 which is where the Tory leadership debate is.


Not really dissenting from the generality here, but whilst the inflationary impact of QE etc. is debatable, there's very little evidence that UK gilt prices have changed very much following 2008 and the pandemic. Bond prices are not really a reason why the left should argue against borrowing.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 18, 2022)

So this circus thatll be decided by 200, 000 people, all over the press/media, I suppose the articles write themselves. Every news outlet, wall to wall, whos going to get their snout even deeper in the trough. Why do we all need to know all the ins and outs if so few people decide it? just lazy jerno crap

The sooner all the newspapers go out of business the better


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 18, 2022)

Tory leadership live updates: Candidates to be whittled down to four in vote today
					

Politics Hub brings you the latest political news, insight and analysis from the Sky News team in Westminster. Five remaining contenders face a third ballot in the House of Commons at 5pm today - a result is expected at 8pm.




					news.sky.com
				




#cancelled


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 18, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Not really dissenting from the generality here, but whilst the inflationary impact of QE etc. is debatable, there's very little evidence that UK gilt prices have changed very much following 2008 and the pandemic. Bond prices are not really a reason why the left should argue against borrowing.



I’m not arguing against borrowing. I’m arguing for borrowing.

But the idea that you need to borrow to cap energy prices or food prices or award decent pay rises is economically illiterate. The idea that the left should launch a fight for money printing rather than one demanding that we tax wealth (particularly unearned) and address the historic levels of the transfer of wealth to the super rich instead isn’t sensible either.

You are right on bond values since 2008, but the idea that borrowing money or printing it to fund corporation tax cuts or to cover the shortfall from dropping the NICS rise is a different matter to bailing banks out or a pandemic


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I couldn't disagree more.
> 
> In terms of your first point it's just not a binary choice. There is plenty that a government could do to raise income without borrowing for day to day spending. For example, it could introduce a levy on excessive executive pay, it could extend the current windfall tax on energy companies to most of the FTSE 350 (who have increased profits by 74% since 2019), capital gains/unearned income could be taxed at the same rate as income from work, second/multiple home ownership could be heavily taxed etc etc.
> 
> On your second point my issue is that the concept of government's just printing money lacks credibility in the real world (as Mordaunt will discover). It would create a prices/wages inflation spiral and Bonds would collapse. Nobody on here - me included - is comparing it to household budgets. Borrowing to invest in infrastructure (and by that I very much mean public services, housing, the NHS, transport, digital etc) on the other hand makes absolute economic sense and re-frames the debate anbd located it in 2022 and not 1982 which is where the Tory leadership debate is.


I don't disagree with there being other options than borrowing, and in your case you're advocating raising taxes. Just don't forget that taxation is a zero sum game between public and private sector, so you're proposing shrinking the private sector.

You also seem to think there are separate pots of money for public spending on infrastructure and public spending on running services? There's only one big pot of money that funds everything, and the government can choose to run a budget deficit if it wants to.

My main point isn't that the government can print unlimited money, because obviously that would have consequences for the strength of the currency. It's that the government has more options than Conservative politicians like to make out.

The whole household budget false analogy has been used to justify austerity and is now being used to justify well below inflation pay rises for the public sector.

And there's no evidence of a wage price spiral taking hold to be honest. Energy prices are driving inflation not wages.


----------



## A380 (Jul 18, 2022)

ska invita said:


> incase anyone wants a new facebook banner
> 
> View attachment 332992


"BBC spy drama Spooks really went downhill in series six..."


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 18, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I don't disagree with there being other options than borrowing, and in your case you're advocating raising taxes. Just don't forget that taxation is a zero sum game between public and private sector, so you're proposing shrinking the private sector.
> 
> You also seem to think there are separate pots of money for public spending on infrastructure and public spending on running services? There's only one big pot of money that funds everything, and the government can choose to run a budget deficit if it wants to.
> 
> ...


You also have to look at what the private sector is doing. When the private sector won't borrow, the public sector has to, otherwise the money supply is destroyed. That's why QE didn't cause inflation. There is a case for public sector borrowing right now because the private sector isn't borrowing. But you'll never hear tories speaking like this, even if they think it, as it shows how the public/private sectors are intimately dependent upon one another.







Some of this stuff is counterintuitive, I think. You might think that household borrowing would increase during bad times, but actually the opposite is true - taken as a whole, people borrow when they are optimistic about the future and save when they're fearful about it.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You also have to look at what the private sector is doing. When the private sector won't borrow, the public sector has to, otherwise the money supply is destroyed. That's why QE didn't cause inflation. There is a case for public sector borrowing right now because the private sector isn't borrowing. But you'll never hear tories speaking like this, even if they think it, as it shows how the public/private sectors are intimately dependent upon one another.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, very true.

Although the statistics can be misleading because those lockdown savings were overwhelmingly concentrated in richer households I think.

That's why the Tories have no answer to the current cost of living crisis, because the only obvious fix (redistribute wealth to lower income households on a mass scale) is completely anathema to them.

Inflation will do the same thing in the end by devaluing people's savings. But it will do it in a lot less equal and a lot more painful way. And in a way that screws over those who can't negotiate pay increases or are reliant on state support.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 18, 2022)

andysays said:


> So they're cancelling the debate rather than going on without Sunak and Truss.
> 
> Very disappointing...



'We've realised that it seriously damages our credibility if the public are given too many opportunities to see what we say and what we think and what we're like as people, so we've decided to delay that unpleasant reality until after one of us has been elected by about 0.3% of the electorate'

What's not to like?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 18, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Yes, very true.
> 
> Although the statistics can be misleading because those lockdown savings were overwhelmingly concentrated in richer households I think.
> 
> ...


The tories are never going to advocate wealth redistribution. The sorry thing is that Labour won't advocate it either.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 18, 2022)

True, the Tories are more actively against it though. For example, they hate inheritance tax which is actually one of the few taxes on wealth we have.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The tories are never going to advocate wealth redistribution.


they might not advocate it but they certainly practice it: giving money to the already wealthy


----------



## teqniq (Jul 18, 2022)

Pretty much this really.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 18, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> It comes down to a choice on either being pro tight monetary policy (aka austerity) or pro loose monetary policy (decent public services and well funded NHS)





> I don't disagree with there being other options than borrowing, and in your case you're advocating raising taxes. Just don't forget that taxation is a zero sum game between public and private sector, so you're proposing shrinking the private sector.



Nonsense. False binary economic choices.

You talk about Thatcherism but your posts with economics as of fixed science with deterministic choices is deeply influenced by Thatcherism


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> It comes down to a choice on either being pro tight monetary policy (aka austerity) or pro loose monetary policy (decent public services and well funded NHS)


other choices are available


----------



## Spandex (Jul 18, 2022)

You'd think 9 hours of prime time TV to put their views across, when the opposition parties won't get a look in or any opportunity to reply, would be a dream come true for a political party. But no. They're such a useless bunch of hateable cunts they're now begging not to have this opportunity of free publicity.

Then again, if the others were given the same opportunity, can you imagine what hell 9 hours of LibDem TV or the soul sapping tedium of 9 hours of Sir Keir would be?


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 18, 2022)

Spandex said:


> You'd think 9 hours of prime time TV to put their views across, when the opposition parties won't get a look in or any opportunity to reply, would be a dream come true for a political party. But no. They're such a useless bunch of hateable cunts they're now begging not to have this opportunity of free publicity.
> 
> Then again, if the others were given the same opportunity, can you imagine what hell 9 hours of LibDem TV or the soul sapping tedium of 9 hours of Sir Keir would be?


I reckon tonight's debate counts as a result without having to go through the agonising tedium of watching it.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 18, 2022)

Spandex said:


> You'd think 9 hours of prime time TV to put their views across, when the opposition parties won't get a look in or any opportunity to reply, would be a dream come true for a political party. But no. They're such a useless bunch of hateable cunts they're now begging not to have this opportunity of free publicity.
> 
> Then again, if the others were given the same opportunity, can you imagine what hell 9 hours of LibDem TV or the soul sapping tedium of 9 hours of Sir Keir would be?


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 18, 2022)

Spandex said:


> can you imagine what hell 9 hours of LibDem TV [...] would be?



Enough to give each of their members their own 15 minutes of fame.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 18, 2022)

Interesting piece by someone who went to Truss' school and says it was very different from what she's claimed, pushing a dishonest right wing agenda.









						I grew up where Liz Truss did, attended the same school. She’s not telling you the truth | Martin Pengelly
					

What does it say about the foreign secretary that she is so prepared to misrepresent her education and denigrate those who helped her, asks Guardian US news editor Martin Pengelly?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Thesaint (Jul 18, 2022)

brogdale said:


> No worries, one of the UK's greatest political minds says blustercunt is safe..



Clearly they share that same hairstylist😁

On a more general note why there there all these potential leaders debates? I mean its not like theres a GE coming so there little the electorate can decide on anyway🙄

Given Truss and Richi are now avoiding them suggests they think they are favourites so best not risk them now.


----------



## Humberto (Jul 18, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> I dont think i've ever seen such a grubby vicious seedy bunch of awful people in one place together. It quite horrifying that thy are all trying to out bastard each other. fuck me
> 
> usually you view a politician as a wanker from the off, then look to see if they have any redeeming sparks of humanity about them to see if they can be tolerated -  I dont know where to start with this lot.



A kakistocracy, perhaps.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 18, 2022)

The worst thing about this contest is that it’s enabled Matt Hancock to return to our airwaves as broadcasters scrabble for talking heads.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 18, 2022)

Thesaint said:


> Clearly they share that same hairstylist😁
> 
> On a more general note why there there all these potential leaders debates? I mean its not like theres a GE coming so there little the electorate can decide on anyway🙄
> 
> Given Truss and Richi are now avoiding them suggests they think they are favourites so best not risk them now.


You do know that Fabricant wears a wig right


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Interesting piece by someone who went to Truss' school and says it was very different from what she's claimed, pushing a dishonest right wing agenda.



a tory, not being honest and truthful?

i am shocked





Humberto said:


> A kakistocracy, perhaps.



a cuntocracy?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 18, 2022)

is today's thing the ultimate in cancel culture, in that the vermin are now cancelling themselves?


----------



## two sheds (Jul 18, 2022)

they can't take it, the snowflakes


----------



## weltweit (Jul 18, 2022)

Someone on the radio said it is now between Sunak and Truss.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 18, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Someone on the radio said it is now between Sunak and Truss.


Someone on the radio has a very good track record.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Interesting piece by someone who went to Truss' school and says it was very different from what she's claimed, pushing a dishonest right wing agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I only saw a few minutes of the debates, but I caught that bit. It's strange listening to the candidates, all of whom are younger than me but all of whom talk like they are from an older generation than me. 

Tories are weird.


----------



## ouirdeaux (Jul 18, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> a tory, not being honest and truthful?



I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!


----------



## two sheds (Jul 18, 2022)

I'd almost enjoy watching Truss as PM if she just remained her vacantly smiling vacuous self. The danger is that she invites the Spirit of Margaret Thatcher to live in her body, succumbs to the vampire mind meld, and starts channeling the Evil One. That wouldn't be pretty.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I'd almost enjoy watching Truss as PM if she just remained her vacantly smiling vacuous self. The danger is that she invites the Spirit of Margaret Thatcher to live in her body, succumbs to the vampire mind meld, and starts channeling the Evil One. That wouldn't be pretty.



She seems the least likeable (i know its a low bar) and therefore least electable by the general population in two years so I'd also like her to win this. But she won't.

It will be a coronation for Rishi but hey, even he has to be better than the incompetent fuckwit we currently have sunbathing at Chequers. I'll take it right now.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I only saw a few minutes of the debates, but I caught that bit. It's strange listening to the candidates, all of whom are younger than me but all of whom talk like they are from an older generation than me.



One of the worst things about getting older is when the senior politicans are younger than you, and the last conceivable shred of the 'well, they seem like stupid cunts, but they're old, so maybe they do have some relevant experience I don't know about, and have learnt a thing or two, and do sort of know what they're talking about, possibly, maybe ...?' veil falls away, and you realise basically no one has the first fucking clue what they're doing ever, and anyone who volunteers to run anything more complex and impactful than a cake stand at a primary school fair is obviously a narcissistic sociopath if they're managing to believe otherwise.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> She seems the least likeable (i know its a low bar) and therefore least electable by the general population in two years so I'd also like her to win this. But she won't.
> 
> It will be a coronation for Rishi but hey, even he has to be better than the incompetent fuckwit we currently have sunbathing at Chequers. I'll take it right now.



This is questionable. The one saving grace of Johnson is that he was fucking lazy, and probably only did a tiny fraction of the vile things that someone with exactly the same views but a bit more competence and work ethic might achieve.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 18, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> 'well, they seem like stupid cunts, ...'


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


>



Sorry, but you must have got used to people (almost) taking your name in vain over the last five or six years...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 18, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Sorry, but you must have got used to people (almost) taking your name in vain over the last five or six years...



No need to apologise.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 18, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Someone on the radio has a very good track record.


Has there been another vote?


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 18, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Has there been another vote?



Results out shortly. All the evidence points to Tugendhat trudging back to the pavillion after a scratchy and undistinguished innings.


----------



## moochedit (Jul 18, 2022)

Is one of them getting eliminated tonight? (Not literally sadly)


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 18, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Has there been another vote?


IIRC the result is due at 8pm.


----------



## belboid (Jul 18, 2022)

oh my god Tugendhat is out!  Who saw that coming?


----------



## Petcha (Jul 18, 2022)

Can they not just end this misery, put Sunak in there as he inevitably will be, and get the fucking cunt currently squatting downing st/chequers off to the job centre? Please. It's hot. We're all a bit cranky. Just finish this shit. Do we really need 7 more weeks.


----------



## belboid (Jul 18, 2022)

357 votes cast.  It'd be great if the round after next ended 119 all


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 18, 2022)

Damn I was looking forward to him having a go with his theme tune being "In the army now"


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 18, 2022)

belboid said:


> oh my god Tugendhat is out!  Who saw that coming?


It was a toss up between him and Mad Bad Kemi, she'll get the chop tomorrow


----------



## Petcha (Jul 18, 2022)

Some senior Tory on Sky saying that the Sunak/Mordaunt ticket would be a killer for labour in the next election. And sadly, I think he's right. And that's where this is all going.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Can they not just end this misery, put Sunak in there as he inevitably will be, and get the fucking cunt currently squatting downing st/chequers off to the job centre? Please. It's hot. We're all a bit cranky. Just finish this shit. Do we really need 7 more weeks.


its not inevitable. the tory faithful prefer mordant or truss (or bad enoch - although thankfully it looks like she wont be one of the final two)- they dont like sunak - and its them who decide. he could win it - but its not remotely a sure thing.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 18, 2022)

Truss gained 7 points! She was fucking abysmal. 
Someone on twitter said, ' liz truss has that look that you only see for a split second on your landing during a lightning storm'.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Some senior Tory on Sky saying that the Sunak/Mordaunt ticket would be a killer for labour in the next election. And sadly, I think he's right. And that's where this is all going.


they dont come as a double act - its either or. And they are all shit and totally beatable - even by fucking starmer


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 18, 2022)

Mordaunt lost 1 vote compared to ballot 2.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 18, 2022)

I guess they didn't like the "2003 - 2013: Killing people and losing wars" part of Tugendhat's CV - he should have just said he was traveling during those years, would have been technically true.


----------



## moochedit (Jul 18, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> It was a toss up between him and Mad Bad Kemi, she'll get the chop tomorrow



Yeah that looks likely tommorow but i wonder where her votes will then go? Seems to be enough to put truss ahead of  mordaunt on wed vote.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 18, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Yeah that looks likely tommorow but i wonder where her votes will then go? Seems to be enough to put truss ahead of  mordaunt on wed vote.


I think that is the aim. Truss looks genuinely deranged though tbh.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 18, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> its not inevitable. the tory faithful prefer mordant or truss (or bad enoch - although thankfully it looks like she wont be one of the final two)- they dont like sunak - and its them who decide. he could win it - but its not remotely a sure thing.



I’d go further and argue that it’s now likely that Truss will win.

Mordaunt has stalled. The more she has to actually say something, the more she’s revealed as a Cameron/Osborne tribute act. Like Sunak politically in fact, just without the obscene wealth. 

Presumably, the swivel eyed Badenoch’s supporters will swing largely to Truss when Badenoch is inevitably voted out next.

Truss will then win a vote off with Tory members over Sunak not least because she’s a lamentable Thatcher tribute act (without the brains, discipline, ideas and force of will of Thatcher).

So, as I said to those celebrating the demise of Johnson, the Tories would simply pick a bigger cunt to replace him. And here we are..


----------



## Sue (Jul 18, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> I guess they didn't like the "2003 - 2013: Killing people and losing wars" part of Tugendhat's CV - he should have just said he was traveling during those years, would have been technically true.


'Travelling' covers a multitude of CV sins it must be said.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> So, as I said to those celebrating the demise of Johnson, the Tories would simply pick a bigger cunt to replace him. And here we are..


Yeh I think we knew that though, it was just nice for once taking some time off from the relentless grind to celebrate  the demise of the cunt.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 18, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Truss gained 7 points! She was fucking abysmal



Or to put it another way she only picked up 7 Braverman votes, most went to Sunak, which is pretty devastating for her.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 18, 2022)




----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Yeh I think we knew that though, it was just nice for once taking some time off from the relentless grind to celebrate  the demise of the cunt.



Well you might have, but some people (and the media and PMC en masse) were jubilant at what they perceived as the end of populist boosterism, lame attempts at culture ‘war’ and wedge issues, lying and so on. Now they’ve got Truss - a sobering corrective I’d suggest


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 18, 2022)




----------



## contadino (Jul 18, 2022)

Johnson achieved next to nothing in his tenure because he's lazy and arrogant. How much do you think Lamentable Liz will achieve, given her utter stupidity and the struggles she endures to put a sentence together? I'd suggest that she'd tick precisely fuck all off the loony to-do list.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 18, 2022)

contadino said:


> Johnson achieved next to nothing in his tenure because he's lazy and arrogant. How much do you think Lamentable Liz will achieve, given her utter stupidity and the struggles she endures to put a sentence together? I'd suggest that she'd tick precisely fuck all off the loony to-do list.


He crashed the UK out of the EU in just about the worst way possible. He 'achieved' that as his lasting legacy for all of us to deal with.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 18, 2022)

id definitely be happiest with truss - she will wreck yet further damage on the tories, will be shit at the politicking needed to get polices through parliament, will have no authrority in her party and is the one most likley to lead the cunts to defeat.


----------



## contadino (Jul 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He crashed the UK out of the EU in just about the worst way possible. He 'achieved' that as his lasting legacy for all of us to deal with.


Well he didn't really. The customs checks between the EU and the UK have been deferred repeatedly.

He did manage to get Teresa May's deal signed. The one he resigned as foreign secretary in disgust over.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 18, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



It's almost like they make this shit up.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I only saw a few minutes of the debates, but I caught that bit. It's strange listening to the candidates, all of whom are younger than me but all of whom talk like they are from an older generation than me.
> 
> Tories are weird.




She’s the continuity candidate; she lies about everything.


----------



## LDC (Jul 18, 2022)

brogdale said:


> It's almost like they make this shit up.



What's complicated is often I don't even think they're lying as such. They're telling _a story _that they've probably told so many people so many times (including themselves) they actually believe it now, especially as it fits with the wider ideological points they're trying to make by telling it. Although they are also lying pricks of course.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 18, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> id definitely be happiest with truss - she will wreck yet further damage on the tories, will be shit at the politicking needed to get polices through parliament, will have no authrority in her party and is the one most likley to lead the cunts to defeat.




Shame we have to deal with the shit-slinging of these chimps though.

Just bin off government altogether, many other countries have done just fine without these arseholes siphoning cash and bollocksing shit up. The other week FIFTY ministers quit; what the fuck did these cunts do??? Every day of the week, trousering >£100k, just what did the working day entail for these pricks???


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 18, 2022)

Defund government.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 18, 2022)

I'm not sure if Badenoch is confusing the amount of tax she paid then with the amount she pays now on her £84k MP's salary.

She's getting good value out of the taxpayer at least thanks to the good people of safest Tory Essex.

Also an ex banker I see.

Why does she not share some stories from her banking days? I'm sure just as relatable as flipping burgers.









						Kemi Badenoch - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 18, 2022)

Truss would be the funniest I suppose, if only we aren't predicted an absolute tsunami of poverty and human wreckage over the next couple of years, following a decade of austerity. And none of these deeply weird and scarily ideological fuckwits have a fucking clue beyond tightening the screws further.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 18, 2022)

brogdale said:


> It's almost like they make this shit up.




Pictured, Conservative work experience:


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 18, 2022)

From one perspective there is a logic to ‘hoping’ Truss wins. She’s palpably ridiculous, she’d be an immediate prisoner of the endless Tory civil war and she’s similar to Johnson in that she’s highly unlikely to be able to grip and achieve anything much in the two years before an election.

Whilst undoubtedly vile she lacks the obvious ability of Sunak to actually do delivery. Most importantly Truss clearly doesn’t have a narrative or intellectual understanding of the economic and social changes which are occurring or which are liminal. As such she’s likely to be limited to purely reactive government rather than remaking a post-Brexit, post-pandemic Britain. Scant consolation for sure given the state of the Labour Party but she’s also probably the candidate that provides the best chance of a labour/SNP majority in 2024


----------



## Curiouscarl (Jul 18, 2022)

You are watching a pantomime.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 18, 2022)




----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 18, 2022)




----------



## wow (Jul 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> From one perspective there is a logic to ‘hoping’ Truss wins. She’s palpably ridiculous, she’d be an immediate prisoner of the endless Tory civil war and she’s similar to Johnson in that she’s highly unlikely to be able to grip and achieve anything much in the two years before an election.
> 
> Whilst undoubtedly vile she lacks the obvious ability of Sunak to actually do delivery. Most importantly Truss clearly doesn’t have a narrative or intellectual understanding of the economic and social changes which are occurring or which are liminal. As such she’s likely to be limited to purely reactive government rather than remaking a post-Brexit, post-pandemic Britain. Scant consolation for sure given the state of the Labour Party but she’s also probably the candidate that provides the best chance of a labour/SNP majority in 2024


I think Truss is the only remaining candidate the RW media and Tory members will accept.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 18, 2022)

wow said:


> I think Truss is the only remaining candidate the RW media and Tory members will accept.




RW media

That’s the arena.

Fuck’em. Murdoch’s days are numbered. The narrative of what is right wing needs to change.

In some diseased minds enriching yourself preventing others from descending others falling in to poverty is the conservative ideal. That would be at least a start as it seems too left wing for current Labour (or 1997 Labour)


----------



## existentialist (Jul 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I only saw a few minutes of the debates, but I caught that bit. It's strange listening to the candidates, all of whom are younger than me but all of whom talk like they are from an older generation than me.
> 
> Tories are weird.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 19, 2022)

existentialist said:


>



Weird, clearly. A very, very, very weird child. But with a talent for oratory at least. Used to be a prized quality in politicians. When did that change?


----------



## yield (Jul 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Used to be a prized quality in politicians. When did that change?


What do they believe in? Would it even be a good thing?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Weird, clearly. A very, very, very weird child. But with a talent for oratory at least. Used to be a prized quality in politicians. When did that change?


When they stopped having anything to say


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 19, 2022)

Well, fancy that.


----------



## moochedit (Jul 19, 2022)

nino_savatte said:


> Well, fancy that.




"Thousands"


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2022)

moochedit said:


> "Thousands"


paul golding has a vivid imagination


----------



## moochedit (Jul 19, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> paul golding has a vivid imagination


How many of these thousands are mp's?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2022)

nino_savatte said:


> Well, fancy that.



i'm not sure the fuhrer has followed the election with attention given that it's very uncertain that la kemi will be in the final two who'll be given to the membership to decide between


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2022)

moochedit said:


> How many of these thousands are mp's?


there'll be a mps cop or two in there that's for sure


----------



## brogdale (Jul 19, 2022)

nino_savatte said:


> Well, fancy that.



Somewhat surprising given that the candidate they endorse is literally called Bad Enoch.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Somewhat surprising given that the candidate they endorse is literally called Bad Enoch.


that's the july 2022 post of the month


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 19, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Liz Truss among seven MPs who put Amazon Prime subscription on expenses
> 
> 
> Members of the online retailer’s premium service pay £79 a year to get quicker delivery and enjoy access to TV shows including The Boys, Star Trek: Picard and Jeremy Clarkson’s The Grand Tour
> ...


Lizz Truss definitely like Star Trek Picard.


----------



## philosophical (Jul 19, 2022)

She does it for old episodes of Thunderbirds to model her public presence on.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 19, 2022)

brogdale said:


> It's almost like they make this shit up.


No? you really think so!


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 19, 2022)

Tobias Ellwood cannot vote in the Leadership vote today as he has had the whip taken away after abstaining from the Confidence vote last night


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Tobias Ellwood cannot vote in the Leadership vote today as he has had the whip taken away after abstaining from the Confidence vote last night


so 357 tory mps sitting on a wall


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 19, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> so 357 tory mps sitting on a wall


And if one Tory MP should accidentally fall there will still be too many of the bastards left


----------



## moochedit (Jul 19, 2022)

So what time does the next tory get eliminated?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> And if one Tory MP should accidentally fall there will still be too many of the bastards left


Make it a crumbly wall backing onto beachy head


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 19, 2022)

moochedit said:


> So what time does the next tory get eliminated?



Result at 3pm.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Tobias Ellwood cannot vote in the Leadership vote today as he has had the whip taken away after abstaining from the Confidence vote last night



Bit suspicious this. Ellwood supports Mordaunt.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 19, 2022)

Im still mystified why the tory right - and murdoch and the daily mail - are backing truss over mourdant. Mourdant was an arch brexiteer and her policies are hardly "wet". She's wooden and charmless but next to truss she come across like a political titan. Truss is lobotomized version of johnson doing a thatcher cos play - she will be a massive embarrassment in a general election campaign. 
Dont get it - is it all down to mourdnat being not quite gammon enough on the burning issue of pronouns? 
And if not mourdant - why dont they back bad enoch? Shes far more spawn of thathcer - if that is what they are looking for...

Its obvious that sunack is the least shit they can do in terms of ability and likelihood of winning an election - what has he done to upset the mail and murdoch so much? Knifing johnson? It was way past the time that had to happen. The mail is always going to go for the batshit option  -but  I thought that most tories  were into power and keeping hold of it - and that the likes of murdoch want to latch onto the people who can wield that power.  

In other news - it seems liz truss was involved in twyford down the anti CJB campaign back in 1994 - so they'll be a few urbanites like myself who may have been chanting and marching (although possibly not hoying rocks at the cops in hyde park)  alongside her. i feel dirty. That's truss holding the banner


----------



## kebabking (Jul 19, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Bit suspicious this. Ellwood supports Mordaunt.



Also one of the most vocal of Johnson's critics - Ellwood was in Moldova for the Defence Select committee, he says that travel disruption (which should be easy to prove or disprove) meant he couldn't get back in time.

Standard petulance from Johnson: one wonders if, given that Ellwood is well liked on the Tory benches, and that Truss is obviously the continuity Johnson candidate, that there will be a backlash against Truss...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Im still mystified why the tory right - and murdoch and the daily mail - are backing truss over mourdant. Mourdant was an arch brexiteer and her policies are hardly "wet". She's wooden and charmless but next to truss she come across like a political titan. Truss is lobotomized version of johnson doing a thatcher cos play - she will be a massive embarrassment in a general election campaign.
> Dont get it - is it all down to mourdnat being not quite gammon enough on the burning issue of pronouns?
> And if not mourdant - why dont they back bad enoch? Shes far more spawn of thathcer - if that is what they are looking for...
> 
> ...



Bad Enoch


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 19, 2022)

I think all right thinking people should be doing everything they can to support the Liz Truss leadership  campaign.
Despite stiff competition,  she is clearly the best candidate to lead the tories to defeat at the next election.


----------



## maomao (Jul 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> she will be a massive embarrassment in a general election campaign.


And probably still win. I'd imagine it's at least partly about how much leverage certain groups think they have over the different candidates.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> I think all right thinking people should be doing everything they can to support the Liz Truss leadership  campaign.
> Despite stiff competition,  she is clearly the best candidate to lead the tories to defeat at the next election.



Dichotomy: Truss is undoubtedly the worst performing Tory leader in any election. Her being Tory leader almost guarantees - bar Starmer being caught balls deep in a 5yo - a Labour election victory.

However, the downside of that is that she'd have two years and a healthy majority, and anyone who doubts what damage she could do in two years with a healthy majority, need only look at Johnson...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> And probably still win. I'd imagine it's at least partly about how much leverage certain groups think they have over the different candidates.


really not sure about the "probably win" - the tories havent looked more beatable since 1997.


----------



## maomao (Jul 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> really not sure about the "probably win" - the tories havent looked more beatable since 1997.


Yes, but Labour haven't looked this beatable since 83.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 19, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Dichotomy: Truss is undoubtedly the worst performing Tory leader in any election. Her being Tory leader almost guarantees - bar Starmer being caught balls deep in a 5yo - a Labour election victory.
> 
> However, the downside of that is that she'd have two years and a healthy majority, and anyone who doubts what damage she could do in two years with a healthy majority, need only look at Johnson...


think she would do the least damage out of the remaining four - due to her ineptness, her lack of authority and the fact that half the pcp will be gunning for her.


----------



## Supine (Jul 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> Yes, but Labour haven't looked this beatable since 83.



what tosh


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> Yes, but Labour haven't looked this beatable since 83 2019.


c4u


----------



## A380 (Jul 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Im still mystified why the tory right - and murdoch and the daily mail - are backing truss over mourdant. Mourdant was an arch brexiteer and her policies are hardly "wet". She's wooden and charmless but next to truss she come across like a political titan. Truss is lobotomized version of johnson doing a thatcher cos play - she will be a massive embarrassment in a general election campaign.
> Dont get it - is it all down to mourdnat being not quite gammon enough on the burning issue of pronouns?
> And if not mourdant - why dont they back bad enoch? Shes far more spawn of thathcer - if that is what they are looking for...
> 
> ...


I think you might be making the error that the wider Tory party is as policy and doctrine based as politics on the left. That isn't true,  whilst policy debate is important, the conservative eco-system is far more about power, in groups and out groups and court politics, Its why they tend to be 'better' at sticking together and more brutal in getting rid of leaders once they aren't useful anymore. You can't map how the 'left' functions onto the 'right'.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> Yes, but Labour haven't looked this beatable since 83.



They're kicking their own arses up and down the street on a daily basis, just to show everyone else how it's done.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 19, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> so 357 tory mps sitting on a wall



Hope it’s not a red wall


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Hope it’s not a red wall


not yet but that can be changed


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 19, 2022)

A380 said:


> I think you might be making the error that the wider Tory party is as policy and doctrine based as politics on the left. That isn't true,  whilst policy debate is important, the conservative eco-system is far more about power, in groups and out groups and court politics, Its why they tend to be 'better' at sticking together and more brutal in getting rid of leaders once they aren't useful anymore. You can't map how the 'left' functions onto the 'right'.


well yes - but if they are after power for their particular faction - why are they getting behind the walking calamity that is truss? I cant really see what repels them so much about sunak or thingy mordor (expecially in murdochs case)  . And if its becasue of headbanger ideological purity - then why dont they go with bad enoch? (and thank fuck they dont).


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 19, 2022)

latest polling of tory members. Cmon Liz!!!


----------



## Wilf (Jul 19, 2022)

Good news for Badenoch, if she could only get through today's vote (which she almost certainly won't). She beats all the others in a head to head of members:








						Truss, Mordaunt, and Badenoch all in a virtual tie for next leader among Conservative members | YouGov
					

No good news for Rishi Sunak




					yougov.co.uk
				




Interesting that there hasn't been a late swing of MPs towards her.  Ideally of course, I'd prefer another kind of swing for tory MPs.


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2022)

Badenoch 59
Mordaunt 92
Sunak 118
Truss 86

1 spoiled


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2022)

That's 15 up for Truss, I'm guessing there was a swing from Badenoch voters to Truss, I find it hard to believe that half of Tugendhat's voters swing that way


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> That's 15 up for Truss, I'm guessing there was a swing from Badenoch voters to Truss, I find it hard to believe that half of Tugendhat's voters swing that way


Badenoch gained one vote.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 19, 2022)

Doing the maths the right of the Tory party will chuck Mordaunt out who gained only 10 votes from the Tugendhat block


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> Badenoch 59
> Mordaunt 92
> Sunak 118
> Truss 86
> ...


I hope the spoilt one said, 'you're all a bunch of fuckers.'


----------



## killer b (Jul 19, 2022)

When's the next vote? reckon there's a decent chance of it being Truss vs Mordant on those numbers


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 19, 2022)

looks like truss vs sunak then - assuming enoch's votes go to her as the right's standard bearer. Which means Liz Truss will be pm. Utterly baffling. And a absolute gift to labour. Very relived that badenoch is out.


----------



## killer b (Jul 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> When's the next vote? reckon there's a decent chance of it being Truss vs Mordant on those numbers


actually no, my maths is shit.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 19, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> I hope the spoilt one said, 'you're all a bunch of fuckers.'


It was probably johnson, too pissed to get his cross in the square.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> When's the next vote? reckon there's a decent chance of it being Truss vs Mordant on those numbers


There'll be a lot of tactical voting though, a lot of 'anyone but X' manoeuvring, so absolutely no guarantee that they'll keep all the votes they won in the last round. It's a secret ballot so voters can lie about their intentions.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> When's the next vote? reckon there's a decent chance of it being Truss vs Mordant on those numbers


Assuming Johnson continues not to vote and the bloke who lost the whip continues not to have the whip, Sunak only needs one more vote, I think. 

Maybe Johnson will vote next time?


----------



## Wilf (Jul 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> actually no, my maths is shit.


But not _impossible _he might end up 2nd.  Can't be arsed looking back at previous rounds, but his numbers are only creeping up.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 19, 2022)

Wilf said:


> But not _impossible _he might end up 2nd.  Can't be arsed looking back at previous rounds, but his numbers are only creeping up.


The magic number is 120 to be guaranteed top 2, or 119 if certain people don't vote. 

But votes can go down as well as up, as we have seen.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 19, 2022)

Anyway, when this goes to the members, sunak will have lost the heir apparent title and will have to get down in the dirt and fight with whichever loon he ends up against.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 19, 2022)

Could it be that Sunak wins as he's the richest contender?


----------



## JimW (Jul 19, 2022)

Liz Truss has been a LibDem loyalist the whole time and only comes across as animatronic due to the mental strain of being a sleeper agent nearing her goal.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 19, 2022)

It's a fair assumption that most of Badenoch's votes will go to Mordor or truss.  Beyond that, the key issue is whether there's a significant shift _between _these 2.  Not sure there is, so... fuck knows.  We are back at sunak v truss/mordor.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 19, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> I hope the spoilt one said, 'you're all a bunch of fuckers.'


That was Boris Johnson, probably wrote his own name in


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 19, 2022)

Looking at the numbers, it would take a massive fluke for Sunak not to be in the top 2. There'd need to be an almost exactly three-way tie with him just one or two behind the other two. Not impossible. But a long shot. Think he could finish second, though, and that would be a blow.

Truss is going to the next PM, isn't she?


----------



## moochedit (Jul 19, 2022)

Truss only 6 behind mordant and bad enoch's supporters are easily enough to close that gap. Also this story below says sunak would lose to everyone else in members vote. Tis looking like Truss will win at this stage. 









						Sunak would lose in final Tory member vote against three rivals,  poll shows
					

Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss, and Kemi Badenoch could all defeat ex-chancellor




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 19, 2022)




----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The magic number is 120 to be guaranteed top 2, or 119 if certain people don't vote.
> 
> But votes can go down as well as up, as we have seen.


119 is enough if they dont give wotsisname the whip back


----------



## spitfire (Jul 19, 2022)

DEATH MATCH!


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Jul 19, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Theoretically they might all abstain. Or all spoil their ballot papers.


----------



## JimW (Jul 19, 2022)

spitfire said:


> DEATH MATCH!


Death march could be arranged easily in this heat.


----------



## Spandex (Jul 19, 2022)

Liz Truss 

Liz Truss 

Liz Truss 

Liz Truss 

Liz Truss


----------



## JimW (Jul 19, 2022)

Spandex said:


> Liz Truss
> 
> Liz Truss
> 
> ...


Stations of the Truss, like the stages of grief.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 19, 2022)

Wilf said:


> It's a fair assumption that most of Badenoch's votes will go to Mordor or truss.  Beyond that, the key issue is whether there's a significant shift _between _these 2.  Not sure there is, so... fuck knows.  We are back at sunak v truss/mordor.



Not sure that's the case. Badenoch worked for Sunak and some of her supporters - like Gove - are more likely to swing behind Sunak. The majority will go to Truss. Mordaunt looks done to me.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 19, 2022)

I don't care if she will do maximum damage to the tories, I don't want that nauseating fuckwit Liz Truss running the country for any length of time.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 19, 2022)

Badenoch finishing 4th despite being the second least well known person to put their name forward (after the bloke everyone has already forgotten) - must be in line for a senior cabinet position as she’s had some decent exposure, appears competent (and dangerous, and theoretically could co exist with the other 3.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jul 19, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Prime Minister gets the casting vote, which is worth 120 votes.  Write-in candidates accepted, no exclusions against voting for himself.

It was an obvious plan all along, really.


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



I'm not sure this is quite true.  Technically there were 358 tory MP's before doodah lost the whip.  But that number includes the rapist, doesnt it? Who is unnamed but not allowed into the commons, thus being unable to vote.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> I'm not sure this is quite true.  Technically there were 358 tory MP's before doodah lost the whip.  But that number includes the rapist, doesnt it? Who is unnamed but not allowed into the commons, thus being unable to vite.


Ah ok so Johnson has been voting. I had assumed the one who hadn't voted at all was him.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> 119 is enough if they dont give wotsisname the whip back


penalty shout off


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 19, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Badenoch finishing 4th despite being the second least well known person to put their name forward (after the bloke everyone has already forgotten) - must be in line for a senior cabinet position as she’s had some decent exposure, appears competent (and dangerous, and theoretically could co exist with the other 3.



She's very dangerous indeed. I think she's probably the most unhinged of all of the contender in terms of batshit views, but superficially plausible and a lot less thick than some of the other most repugnant members of the government _coughPatel_. She could do some real harm if she's given a bigger role.


----------



## maomao (Jul 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> I'm not sure this is quite true.  Technically there were 358 tory MP's before doodah lost the whip.  But that number includes the rapist, doesnt it? Who is unnamed but not allowed into the commons, thus being unable to vote.


He reputedly voted in the Tory party vonc a few weeks ago. Wanker hasn't been seen in his constituency though.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> I'm not sure this is quite true.  Technically there were 358 tory MP's before doodah lost the whip.  But that number includes the rapist, doesnt it? Who is unnamed but not allowed into the commons, thus being unable to vote.


Fair points.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 19, 2022)

JimW said:


> Stations of the Truss, like the stages of grief.


Banned From the Trussy.

Needs work.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> I'm not sure this is quite true.  Technically there were 358 tory MP's before doodah lost the whip.  But that number includes the rapist, doesnt it? Who is unnamed but not allowed into the commons, thus being unable to vote.


On the rapist, I think he's pretty much been identified if not officially named.  He's one of the 12 tories who didn't vote in the vonc, 4 of whom are female:


			https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1351#notrecorded


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 19, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't care if she will do maximum damage to the tories, I don't want that nauseating fuckwit Liz Truss running the country for any length of time.




Choose your Fuckwit.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 19, 2022)

Come on Trussy!


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 19, 2022)

Yeah, fuck off Badenoch. Some millionaire business cunt donor was bigging her up on the wireless yesterday, saying how he’d not donated to the party recently but would if she was leader, because those sort always want to bankroll the libertarian extremist types to keep their tax bill down.

I suspect some of Sunak’s supporters will likely ‘lend‘ their votes to Mordorant in the next round to keep Truss out of the final two, which would be funny.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 19, 2022)

Truss now bookies favourite


			https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-prime-minister


----------



## two sheds (Jul 19, 2022)

I'd have liked to see nadine dorries win it


----------



## marty21 (Jul 19, 2022)

JimW said:


> Liz Truss has been a LibDem loyalist the whole time and only comes across as animatronic due to the mental strain of being a sleeper agent nearing her goal.


Deep , Deep , Deep , DEEP undercover .


----------



## JimW (Jul 19, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I'd have liked to see nadine dorries win it



They talk about you in press, 
There's nothing that can stop the stress, 
And the crying when they print your name, Nadine.
Nadine, Nadine, Nadine, Nayyy-deeeen, 
I'm begging of you please don't ever stand.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 19, 2022)

Dogsauce said:


> I suspect some of Sunak’s supporters will likely ‘lend‘ their votes to Mordorant in the next round to keep Truss out of the final two, which would be funny.


I don't think Rishi is far ahead enough to attempt this sort of dark arts stuff. That would be a very dangerous game.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 19, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I don't think Rishi is far ahead enough to attempt this sort of dark arts stuff. That would be a very dangerous game.


I don't think the contenders can order their current voters to do anything .


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 19, 2022)

marty21 said:


> I don't think the contenders can order their current voters to do anything .


As Braverman proved less than a week ago.


----------



## flypanam (Jul 19, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> She's very dangerous indeed. I think she's probably the most unhinged of all of the contender in terms of batshit views, but superficially plausible and a lot less thick than some of the other most repugnant members of the government _coughPatel_. She could do some real harm if she's given a bigger role.


She seems impressive because the others are slugs. None of her ideas bar political control over the BofE are worth much. Faced with real problems she would go to pieces like the rest of run out of ideas tory party and the followers.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> I'm not sure this is quite true.  Technically there were 358 tory MP's before doodah lost the whip.  But that number includes the rapist, doesnt it? Who is unnamed but not allowed into the commons, thus being unable to vote.


I might be wrong here because I'm not good at politics, but from Wilfs post couldn't they be the same person? So only one missing vote.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 19, 2022)

flypanam said:


> She seems impressive because the others are slugs. None of her ideas bar political control over the BofE are worth much. Faced with real problems she would go to pieces like the rest of run out of ideas tory party and the followers.


I vacillate between this view and the one you're quoting, tbh. Perhaps the greatest damage is more of an Overton window one of pushing the acceptable public discourse even further into previously uncharted territory. Her concrete achievements might be limited but it could still open up space for more and more fellow travellers to crowd in and have a go sooner or later.


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> I might be wrong here because I'm not good at politics, but from Wilfs post couldn't they be the same person? So only one missing vote.


The named one is just too young I believe


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 19, 2022)

Ah OK. It was just a quick cross reference.


----------



## A380 (Jul 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> Badenoch 59
> Mordaunt 92
> Sunak 118
> Truss 86
> ...


I hope the spoiled ballot had a spunking cock drawn on it...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 19, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I vacillate between this view and the one you're quoting, tbh. Perhaps the greatest damage is more of an Overton window one of pushing the acceptable public discourse even further into previously uncharted territory. Her concrete achievements might be limited but it could still open up space for more and more fellow travellers to crowd in and have a go sooner or later.


Thing is, what are her ideas? Her idea that there should be more political involvement in the Bank of England is a good idea! Other than that, from what I've heard, it's mostly vague stuff about shrinking government but with no specifics about what should be shrunk. That's the kind of thing that tends to disappear once you're in government. The 'anti-woke' shit is kind of an easy thing to spout about as it doesn't need to involve actually doing anything. Wanting to scrap climate change pledges is of course very bad. 

Essentially I don't see her as any worse than any of the others. She wants to run government for the benefit of the banks and businesses whose interests she represents. In other words, she's a Tory.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 19, 2022)

A380 said:


> I hope the spoiled ballot had a spunking cock drawn on it...



That would be read as a vote for Truss, surely.


----------



## maomao (Jul 19, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> That would be read as a vote for Truss, surely.


Or Sunak. Or Mordaunt.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 19, 2022)

Yeah, all those nonsense little squiggly lines and all that...good on her, eh?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> Or Sunak. Or Mordaunt.



In fact they're all spoiled ballots when you think about it.


----------



## wow (Jul 19, 2022)

It’ll be Truss


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2022)

wow said:


> It’ll be Truss


less than a week....


wow said:


> Hey, first post. Sunak will win. Safe bet.



You've got money on Mordaunt haven't you?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 20, 2022)

wow said:


> Braverman at a guess


Some guess!


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Her idea that there should be more political involvement in the Bank of England is a good idea!


Please elaborate. I'm a bit on the fence because there's plenty of political involvement already.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Please elaborate. I'm a bit on the fence because there's plenty of political involvement already.



It's weird isn't it. The BoE isn't a neutral organisation.

I assume it's the usual "they should do only what we tell them and not have opinions, like saying brexits fucked the economy"


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

If Liz Truss’s big idea really is to remodel monetary policy, expect markets to take fright
					

Tory leadership candidate must clarify her comments on independence of Bank of England – and sharpish




					www.theguardian.com
				



Pratley thinks it will be bad for sterling unless she clarifies.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 20, 2022)

The independence of the BOE is looked upon fondly by those who take the assumptions of neoliberalism to heart and thus view economics as being some kind of neutral, apolitical force of nature. They then believe that this force can be scientifically understood and directed.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> The independence of the BOE is looked upon fondly by those who take the assumptions of neoliberalism to heart and thus view economics as being some kind of neutral, apolitical force of nature. They then believe that this force can be scientifically understood and directed.


Counter argument: politicians are dumb and shouldn't be trusted.

Look at where political meddling in interest rate policy has got Turkey. They are facing a currency crisis and an eye watering inflation rate of over 80%.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 20, 2022)

The Thatcher years showed that at the very least interest rates should be divorced from the electoral cycle.


----------



## Edie (Jul 20, 2022)

I’m not really following this, but want to know when we’re gonna find out who the next PM is. Can anyone tell me please? Ta


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 20, 2022)

Edie said:


> I’m not really following this, but want to know when we’re gonna find out who the next PM is. Can anyone tell me please? Ta



Sep 5th


----------



## kabbes (Jul 20, 2022)

Edie said:


> I’m not really following this, but want to know when we’re gonna find out who the next PM is. Can anyone tell me please? Ta


We already know that it’s going to be an utter cunt. The details are less important, really.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Counter argument: politicians are dumb and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> Look at where political meddling in interest rate policy has got Turkey. They are facing a currency crisis and an eye watering inflation rate of over 80%.


So we’re going to trust them with _literally everything else in the country_ but not this special thing?  That speaks to an ideological priority right there.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> The Thatcher years showed that at the very least interest rates should be divorced from the electoral cycle.


If you’re going down this route, it should apply to fiscal as well as monetary policy.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2022)

Edie said:


> I’m not really following this, but want to know when we’re gonna find out who the next PM is. Can anyone tell me please? Ta



We'll find out who the last two are today.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2022)

Timing is all...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> We'll find out who the last two are today.



Voting from 1pm.

Result declared at 4pm.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Voting from 1pm.
> 
> Result declared at 4pm.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Please elaborate. I'm a bit on the fence because there's plenty of political involvement already.


Democratic accountability.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Timing is all...
> 
> View attachment 333492


Worthless piece of shit. offering baubles to middle England when drastic measures are what is actually required, though really none of the others have anything better to offer.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It's weird isn't it. The BoE isn't a neutral organisation.
> 
> I assume it's the usual "they should do only what we tell them and not have opinions, like saying brexits fucked the economy"


Yes, exactly this. The BoE should only do what the government of the day tells them to do. 

Thing about democratic accountability is that it doesn't work very well. But the alternative is even worse.


----------



## philosophical (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## MrCurry (Jul 20, 2022)

philosophical said:


>



Do you think she went to RADA to develop that talent for showing a momentary flash of emotion while speaking?  Probably not, as her delivery looks like she learned her acting skills studying Joey Tribbiani from Friends.


----------



## philosophical (Jul 20, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> Do you think she went to RADA to develop that talent for showing a momentary flash of emotion while speaking?  Probably not, as her delivery looks like she learned her acting skills studying Joey Tribbiani from Friends.



After showing a bedazzling command of numbers she does a let that sink in pause twice as long as she should, then the indignant eye flash on ‘disgrace. After ‘That. Is. A. Disgrace’ she expects the declaration to spark a revolution.
Stilton parliamentarian opposing Edam Roundheads.
Please let her win out.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 20, 2022)

The same as the 'pork markets' pause, waiting for an instant gasp from the audience that doesn't come


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 20, 2022)

two sheds said:


> The same as the 'pork markets' pause, waiting for an instant gasp from the audience that doesn't come


looks like it’s cut from the same speech.  She was on fire that day.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2022)

If we're on a re-run through the Trussy 'highlights', let's not forget this gem...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> If we're on a re-run through the Trussy 'highlights', let's not forget this gem...
> 
> View attachment 333500



Someone's barking at any rate.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> So we’re going to trust them with _literally everything else in the country_ but not this special thing?  That speaks to an ideological priority right there.


There are plenty of semi-independent bodies set up to act as checks and balances on the government of the day.

You don't want to get rid of those do you? That way lies autocracy.


----------



## maomao (Jul 20, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> She was on fire that day.



Can we arrange for her to be on fire again soon?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2022)

Looks like team Mordor fucked up this morning with this, subsequently deleted, tweet.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> There are plenty of semi-independent bodies set up to act as checks and balances on the government of the day.
> 
> You don't want to get rid of those do you? That way lies autocracy.


aka quangos. Same problem lies with these. They are publicly funded but not publicly accountable.


----------



## belboid (Jul 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Looks like team Mordor fucked up this morning with this, subsequently deleted, tweet.
> 
> View attachment 333503


Her excuse made it even worse. ‘I was just quoting Alison Pearson’.  Dumber than including Pastorius in that video


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 20, 2022)

So sick of these cunts


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> aka quangos. Same problem lies with these. They are publicly funded but not publicly accountable.


Sounds like you have had enough of experts.


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 20, 2022)

Corrupt / corporate manslaughter shyster Rishi, staggeringly dense amateur cosplayer Liz, or cloth-eared fantasist Penny - one of them will be the next PM and all keenly focused on the challenges of the early 1980s.

what a time to be alive.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Sounds like you have had enough of experts.


Publicly funded bodies should be democratically accountable.

Do you disagree with that statement?

Thing with quangos is that the list of responsibilities that are delegated to them, such as, for instance, forestry, is essentially arbitrary. Why isn't the NHS run as a quango? It needs to be run by experts, after all.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 20, 2022)

In a contest that's provided some stiff competition for 'most inane suggestion from a candidate', this one takes some beating


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 20, 2022)

Besides, what's wrong with our current one, 'We're shit, and we know we are'?


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Publicly funded bodies should be democratically accountable.
> 
> Do you disagree with that statement?


What do you propose to change to make the BoE more accountable? It's already fully transparent and it's 100% under direct political influence if not always direct control.

I put it to you that your stance is based on ideology not facts.


----------



## belboid (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> 100% under direct political influence if not always direct control.


what does that mean? It's a pseudo-distinction used to remove politicians from blame.   Fuck that.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> What do you propose to change to make the BoE more accountable? It's already fully transparent and it's 100% under direct political influence if not always direct control.
> 
> I put it to you that your stance is based on ideology not facts.


I would change it back to what it was before Blair changed it. So governments are directly accountable for the consequences of things like, for instance, interest rates.

I'm not entirely sure what facts you think I'm ignoring. The fact that most people's wages have gone down in real terms in the period since the BoE was nominally made independent? That kind of fact? 

We heard quite a few 'facts' in the leadership debates - how inflation is evil and we mustn't go back to the 1970s, a period when unions were much stronger, and wages generally kept pace with inflation and formed a much larger proportion of GDP than they do now as wealth has shifted from wages to profits.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 20, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> Corrupt / corporate manslaughter shyster Rishi, staggeringly dense amateur cosplayer Liz, or cloth-eared fantasist Penny - one of them will be the next PM and all keenly focused on the challenges of the early 1980s.
> 
> what a time to be alive.



Yeah, but if you don’t like them you can vote for Starmer, Davy or Sturgeon in 2 years.

Good job there isn’t much happening


----------



## belboid (Jul 20, 2022)

Ellwood has had the whip restored.  One more vote for VoldeMordaunt


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 20, 2022)

belboid said:


> Ellwood has had the whip restored.  One more vote for VoldeMordaunt


Liking VoldeMordaunt


----------



## Petcha (Jul 20, 2022)

Slightly out of date but i dont read the mash very often now. this is about right though.









						Tory leadership candidates ranked from 'f**k no' to 'kill me now'
					

THE Conservative leadership race is on and the entire country will be the loser, because one of these bellends will be our next prime minister.




					www.thedailymash.co.uk


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> What do you propose to change to make the BoE more accountable? It's already fully transparent and it's 100% under direct political influence if not always direct control.
> 
> I put it to you that your stance is based on ideology not facts.



Wow! You honestly believe that the BoE is100% transparent? And you believe that the current means of political influence are the equivalent  of democratic accountability? It's so good that your beliefs are free from any ideological underpinning/assumptions.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## belboid (Jul 20, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Liking VoldeMordaunt


it was either that or Harold&Mordaunt


----------



## belboid (Jul 20, 2022)

"The MP suggested "nasty personal attacks" in the media had cut through and predicted a Rishi Sunak vs Liz Truss contest would damage both candidates and the Conservative Party."

Oh dear, what a shame, never mind.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 20, 2022)

Mordaunt has conceded apparently, according to the Telegraph









						Penny Mordaunt eliminated as Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss reach final round
					

Penny Mordaunt has been voted out of the Tory leadership race after receiving the lowest number of votes in the final MPs' ballot, sending Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss through to the final.




					www.telegraph.co.uk
				






> An MP loyal to Penny Mordaunt has said Liz Truss has won the second spot in the Tory leadership election.
> 
> Speaking to the Telegraph, the MP said "Liz has pushed us out" after criticism over her record in the Tory press in the past couple of weeks.
> 
> They added: "[It] looks like a Rishi versus Liz summer contest. I fear the only winner from that will be our opponents. Both will be damaged.


----------



## LDC (Jul 20, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> In a contest that's provided some stiff competition for 'most inane suggestion from a candidate', this one takes some beating




I've just skipped through that interview to hear what she's saying. What is this UK theme she speaks of that is much loved and brings us all together? At first I thought she must have just meant the national anthem, but no, apparently we had/have a 'UK theme'? WTF?


----------



## JimW (Jul 20, 2022)

Woman overboard! Ship sunk! etc etc


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 20, 2022)

LDC said:


> I've just skipped through that interview to hear what she's saying. What is this UK theme she speaks of that is much loved and brings us all together? At first I thought she must have just meant the national anthem, but no, apparently we had/have a 'UK theme'? WTF?



I'd check out the interview to see what she's on about but in six minutes she may be rendered completely irrelevant.


----------



## LDC (Jul 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I'd check out the interview to see what she's on about but in six minutes she may be rendered completely irrelevant.



I watched the interview and was none the wiser, it's just the 'UK theme' whatever the fuck that is. Google didn't even have an answer on quick look.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 20, 2022)

Sunak vs Truss?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 20, 2022)

Sunak - 137
Truss - 113
Mordaunt - 105


----------



## LDC (Jul 20, 2022)

Truss is going to beat Sunak among the membership the fucking self sabotaging loons!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2022)

PM Liz Truss here we come. Jesus fucking christ what a shit state of affairs.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 20, 2022)

LDC said:


> Truss is going to beat Sunak among the membership the fucking self sabotaging loons!


Well hopefully it's good news for the opposition


----------



## A380 (Jul 20, 2022)

LDC said:


> I watched the interview and was none the wiser, it's just the 'UK theme' whatever the fuck that is. Google didn't even have an answer on quick look.


Well the old Radio Four UK theme was excellent. I miss it since they stopped playing it in the mornings...


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 20, 2022)

It’s the first time a ventriloquists dummy has the chance to be prime minister so another great step for diversity I suppose


----------



## LDC (Jul 20, 2022)

Truss and Starmer questioning each other in Parliament will be the dullest and more charisma free event ever.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 20, 2022)

Shame, if just four that supported Truss, had backed Mordaunt, they would have both been on 109, which would have been funny.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 20, 2022)

LDC said:


> Truss and Starmer questioning each other in Parliament will be the dullest and more charisma free event ever.


But who would win though


----------



## emanymton (Jul 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Well hopefully it's good news for the opposition


Even if it is. We are fucked either way.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> But who would win though


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 20, 2022)

Sunak is only 8/5 on Betfair, not sure it's a shoe-in for Truss tbh.


----------



## xenon (Jul 20, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Mordaunt has conceded apparently, according to the Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Conceded lol. She came third in a two horse race.


----------



## JimW (Jul 20, 2022)

_He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce. _


----------



## philosophical (Jul 20, 2022)

Truss will win apparently.
Brilliant.
That's the disgraceful cheese situation sorted then.


----------



## A380 (Jul 20, 2022)

LDC said:


> Truss is going to beat Sunak among the membership the fucking self sabotaging loons!


Feature not a bug.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 20, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm going to be stupid and make a prediction.
> 
> Truss will win it.


If she does go on to win it at least I can say I called it.


----------



## A380 (Jul 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> But who would win though


I don't know, bur we all lose...


----------



## belboid (Jul 20, 2022)

LDC said:


> Truss and Starmer questioning each other in Parliament will be the dullest and more charisma free event ever.


naah, that's be Starmer and Mordaunt.    Truss will give replies that makes Johnson's seem almost eloquent


----------



## A380 (Jul 20, 2022)

philosophical said:


> Truss will win apparently.
> Brilliant.
> That's the disgraceful cheese situation sorted then.


Hurrah for cheddar, Stilton and red Leicester!


----------



## redcogs (Jul 20, 2022)

Twud be great if there was just a little levity somewhere.  Hard to see any with trussed up as PM. Yet another fucked up future hurtling towards us


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 20, 2022)

Turns out the Peter principle grossly underestimated the situation.


----------



## Ted Striker (Jul 20, 2022)

Unbelieveable...This is surely the best of all outcomes. Just have to ensure the Tory faithful go full Truss


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2022)

Well Truss will have to do media appearances between now and the final vote, which you'd think would cost her, but then she's been on TV before and is still somehow in the running so who fucking knows. Maybe sentience is just not something tories look for in a party leader.


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 20, 2022)

philosophical said:


> Truss will win apparently.
> Brilliant.
> That's the disgraceful cheese situation sorted then.


Pork buyers in Beijing are celebrating tonight too.


----------



## A380 (Jul 20, 2022)

From Conservative Home just now:

"Truss v Sunak

We are buggered"


ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


----------



## JimW (Jul 20, 2022)

Perhaps a plate of mince will come through as a late write-in?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 20, 2022)

You have been watching... The UK, as the Ship of Fools.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Jul 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


>



Come on Tories vote Truss you know it makes sense


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 20, 2022)

The thing that poll says the most is PR is sorely needed


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 20, 2022)

Perhaps it’s a secret plan by Johnson to avoid being labelled the worst PM ever?


----------



## killer b (Jul 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


>



who are Find Out Now UK?


----------



## xenon (Jul 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well Truss will have to do media appearances between now and the final vote, which you'd think would cost her, but then she's been on TV before and is still somehow in the running so who fucking knows. Maybe sentience is just not something tories look for in a party leader.



According to Chris Bryant on LBC earlier, she has not done one single TV interview. I mean I’ve heard her on the radio a couple of times and it was bad, shambolic.
I know terrible situation for the country et cetera. But I’m just going to enjoy this a little bit.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 20, 2022)

I was a bit worried by Mordaunt but these two have no hope.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> who are Find Out Now UK?



They're an agricultural supplies firm. Or a polling company. I'll let you have a think about it and see if you can work out which one.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 20, 2022)

xenon said:


> According to Chris Bryant on LBC earlier, she has not done one single TV interview. I mean I’ve heard her on the radio a couple of times and it was bad, shambolic.
> I know terrible situation for the country et cetera. But I’m just going to enjoy this a little bit.


I remember I was talking about the Irish Tea-sock thing with someone and whether it was a wind-up and they said no, she really is that stupid.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2022)

Cummings rates her.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 20, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



That is one scary publicity pic


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



That's like a cross between Truss and fabricant


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## 8ball (Jul 20, 2022)

I really hope it's Truss, but I'm expecting Sunak.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 20, 2022)

I've been saying Truss4PM ever since the Pork Markets thing aired so... well, sorry everyone. Monkeys paw is sticking a finger up.


----------



## A380 (Jul 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> who are Find Out Now UK?


Find out.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 20, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Is she doing a This is your life on Gove


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



That's depressing in itself. What are Labour going to offer? Financial 'good sense' by the looks of it. Fuck's sake.


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 20, 2022)

That loathsome, repugnant mould growth Cummings has no time for dim Liz:


----------



## Raheem (Jul 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Well hopefully it's good news for the opposition


Yes, they'll be able to go a bit further to the right with their next manifesto.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 20, 2022)

Pizzagate comes to Britain



(actual tweet)


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 20, 2022)

Woman Tory ( pork market supporter) getting interviewed on sky kept insisting on calling truss Elizabeth. Wonder if she's trying to re brand?


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Counter argument: politicians are dumb and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> Look at where political meddling in interest rate policy has got Turkey. They are facing a currency crisis and an eye watering inflation rate of over 80%.





Cat Fan said:


> There are plenty of semi-independent bodies set up to act as checks and balances on the government of the day.
> 
> You don't want to get rid of those do you? That way lies autocracy.





Cat Fan said:


> What do you propose to change to make the BoE more accountable? It's already fully transparent and it's 100% under direct political influence if not always direct control.
> 
> I put it to you that your stance is based on ideology not facts.


What's amazing(/stupid) is that you appear to think the above is opposed to Thatcherism, when it is the natural outcome of it - _economics are the method_


----------



## redcogs (Jul 20, 2022)

The tory desire to win  make for a fascinating spectacle as the GE day approaches - will the deep racism of many Conservative's allow them to vote Sunak and improve prospects for their longer term political and economic self interests?    The future is full of squirming  for the vermin - brilliant 😂. Whatever happens it's only the leftish parents of Truss who deserve sympathy.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 20, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Woman Tory ( pork market supporter) getting interviewed on sky kept insisting on calling truss Elizabeth. Wonder if she's trying to re brand?



Neither Liz nor Elizabeth is her given first name anyway (she's actually Mary)


----------



## JimW (Jul 20, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Woman Tory ( pork market supporter) getting interviewed on sky kept insisting on calling truss Elizabeth. Wonder if she's trying to re brand?


Get a bit of that platinum jubilee love.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 20, 2022)

Maybe I'm wrong but I think Sunak will win the leadership


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> What's amazing(/stupid) is that you appear to think the above is opposed to Thatcherism, when it is the natural outcome of it - _economics are the method_


It was Gordon Brown who gave the BoE independent control over monetary policy, not sure where Thatcher comes in.

What would you have done differently if you were the BoE MPC?

They've hit the 2% target for years until the latest energy crisis/war. The government could have changed the target if they wanted.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 20, 2022)

First as tragedy, then as farce….


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Wow! You honestly believe that the BoE is100% transparent? And you believe that the current means of political influence are the equivalent  of democratic accountability? It's so good that your beliefs are free from any ideological underpinning/assumptions.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


You didn't answer my question on what you would have done differently?

They have public minutes of every meeting. Unlike our super "democratically accountable" government which is run by WhatsApp and secret meetings with donors.

Which do you prefer?


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> It was Gordon Brown who gave the BoE independent control over monetary policy, not sure where Thatcher comes in.


What was Thatchers comment about New Labour? 
Kabbes was 90% right when he said 


kabbes said:


> The independence of the BOE is looked upon fondly by those who take the assumptions of neoliberalism to heart and thus view economics as being some kind of neutral, apolitical force of nature. They then believe that this force can be scientifically understood and directed.


The other 10% are those that understand exactly what economics is and how their position in the class war is advanced by 'independence' of central banks 


> What would you have done differently if you were the BoE MPC?
> 
> They've hit the 2% target for years until the latest energy crisis/war. The government could have changed the target if they wanted.


And you're the ideologically free one. Right.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> You didn't answer my question on what you would have done differently?
> 
> They have public minutes of every meeting. Unlike our super "democratically accountable" government which is run by WhatsApp and secret meetings with donors.
> 
> Which do you prefer?


The lack of transparency of the UK government is a disgrace and needs to be challenged. Covid illustrated that very clearly - SAGE discussions were kept secret here in the UK, while their equivalents in other European countries had public minutes of every meeting. Ireland published the whole thing online. 

That UK democracy has many very undemocratic elements (see also this current competition to become the new PM) is not an argument for anything other than that those undemocratic elements need challenging. Your solution seems to be that we should just give up on the aspiration of democratic accountability altogether.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> It was Gordon Brown who gave the BoE independent control over monetary policy, not sure where Thatcher comes in.
> 
> What would you have done differently if you were the BoE MPC?
> 
> They've hit the 2% target for years until the latest energy crisis/war. The government could have changed the target if they wanted.


Offered the choice between 10% inflation with a 10% pay rise or 2% inflation with a 1% pay rise, I'll take the former, thanks. Everyone should. Low inflation isn't a good in and of itself. Over the past couple of decades, it has coincided with a steady erosion of wages.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Offered the choice between 10% inflation with a 10% pay rise or 2% inflation with a 1% pay rise, I'll take the former, thanks. Everyone should. Low inflation isn't a good in and of itself. Over the past couple of decades, it has coincided with a steady erosion of wages.


Sorry LBJ you must be wrong, after all a member of the MPC has told us that things have been working for the last two decades


> “The government very clearly does not set the direction of travel for monetary policy, that is set by the MPC,” he said. “That is fundamental to the UK framework and the credibility of the framework, and it has served the UK well for the past 25 years. The foundations of the UK monetary policy framework, I think, are really important and best left untouched.”


That increased inequality and worsening condition of workers has served the UK well


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 20, 2022)

Oh god, I want Truss to win it now. She's like Boris Johnson without the charisma. It's going to be a fucking disaster. Bring it on!


----------



## killer b (Jul 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> They're an agricultural supplies firm. Or a polling company. I'll let you have a think about it and see if you can work out which one.


I was wondering how seriously you should take a poll conducted by a polling company no-one has heard of with 1200 followers on twitter really.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Shame, if just four that supported Truss, had backed Mordaunt, they would have both been on 109, which would have been funny.


They'd have had to arm wrestle for the right to go forward (sure I saw it in the Tory rules) I think the Mordaunt would have edged that .


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> You didn't answer my question on what you would have done differently?
> 
> They have public minutes of every meeting. Unlike our super "democratically accountable" government which is run by WhatsApp and secret meetings with donors.
> 
> Which do you prefer?



You didn't ask me any questions?

You think public minutes equal 100% transparency?

You think I said our government is actually democratically  accountable?

I prefer none of the above.

How is it going with your facts not ideology fantasy?

Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

Well I think we're broadly agreed that the UK government is terrible in terms of transparency. My point is taking interest rates back into government control would mean less transparency not more based on how things look today.

Then your other point on earnings vs interest rates I have more sympathy for, but if we look at countries that have tried to defy the economic norms it hasn't tended to give all the workers above inflationary pay rises.

I'm thinking Argentina, Venezuela and Turkey. Generally it's been a disaster and triggered some kind of inflationary doom spiral.

I would say it's not the bank's fault that pay in the UK hasn't been keeping up with inflation, that's just because the balance of economic power is gradually shifting to fossil fuel rich economies and Asia. We're not a global mega empire anymore.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 20, 2022)

"Economic norms" - says it all


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> You didn't ask me any questions?
> 
> You think public minutes equal 100% transparency?
> 
> ...


I asked what you would change to make the BoE more accountable (or work better). It's a fair question, no?

That's fine if you don't want to put it back under control of the government, but that's what others on this thread have been saying.

Not sure what you mean by "none of the above". 

Easy for you to criticise without proposing any actual alternative.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I would say it's not the bank's fault that pay in the UK hasn't been keeping up with inflation, that's just because the balance of economic power is gradually shifting to fossil fuel rich economies and Asia. We're not a global mega empire anymore.


This is patently not true. Wages not keeping up with inflation has occurred during a period of steady economic growth. Wages as a proportion of GDP have gone down, while profits - making money from owning stuff rather than doing things - have gone up.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> I was wondering how seriously you should take a poll conducted by a polling company no-one has heard of with 1200 followers on twitter really.



I guess I'm just really into the sort of edgy, niche polls nobody else has heard of.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> This is patently not true. Wages not keeping up with inflation has occurred during a period of steady economic growth. Wages as a proportion of GDP have gone down, while profits - making money from owning stuff rather than doing things - have gone up.


And how would raising interest rates help with this problem?  It's a global trend thar inequality has been accelerating, it's not exclusive to the UK.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> And how would raising interest rates help with this problem?  It's a global trend thar inequality has been accelerating, it's not exclusive to the UK.


Who said anything about raising interest rates? (That's the thing they do to squash inflation, btw - I think you've got this stuff confused. In 2008, interest rates were slashed in order to avoid deflation.)

One thing they could have done, as a for instance, is to give the quantitative easing money directly to us rather than using it to bail out the failed banks. But no, the system that has been slowly immiserating us needed to be saved.


----------



## killer b (Jul 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I guess I'm just really into the sort of edgy, niche polls nobody else has heard of.


Either that or you've been suckered by some clickbait


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Who said anything about raising interest rates? (That's the thing they do to squash inflation, btw - I think you've got this stuff confused. In 2008, interest rates were slashed in order to avoid deflation.)
> 
> One thing they could have done is to give the quantitative easing money directly to us rather than using it to bail out the failed banks. But no, the system that has been slowly immiserating us needed to be saved.


It may be you who is confused, slashing interest rates has been standard bank policy in times of recession. You don't think they've been doing a good job so I assumed you wanted them to keep interest rates high instead.

If your issue with the bank of England is that QE went to banks rather than individuals fine, but you should know that it wasn't a bank decision it was a political decision by the government of the day!

The issue in question is whether the BoE should have independence in setting interest rates and I still haven't had a convincing argument why not.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 20, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> I was a bit worried by Mordaunt but these two have no hope.


Another scrap of a  pleasure in life would be  to see Starmer losing to Truss....I hope he chokes on it


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> It may be you who is confused, slashing interest rates has been standard bank policy in times of recession. You don't think they've been doing a good job so I assumed you wanted them to keep interest rates high instead.


Well don't assume things like that. I didn't say it, so don't assume I think it.

I'd advise you to read the replies you're getting here more carefully because you don't get where any of us are coming from on this issue.

One thing I'd say to point you in the right direction is that I agree very strongly with Marx that there is no such thing as economics per se. There is only and always political economy.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 20, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> "Economic norms" - says it all



wasn't he the chancellor when the shit hit the fan during john major's time?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> Either that or you've been suckered by some clickbait



In which case you'd expect other polls to show the opposite, with Truss miles ahead of Starmer...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> wasn't he the chancellor when the shit hit the fan during john major's time?


Short-lived Viz character with mad hair.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 20, 2022)

A380 said:


> Find out.



Loosely linked to Fuck Around PLC.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Well don't assume things like that. I didn't say it, so don't assume I think it.
> 
> I'd advise you to read the replies you're getting here more carefully because you don't get where any of us are coming from on this issue.
> 
> One thing I'd say to point you in the right direction is that I agree very strongly with Marx that there is no such thing as economics per se. There is only and always political economy.


Ah ok, the whole thing started when we were discussing Liz Truss's plan to interfere in the BoE's independence, which I don't think is a fabulous idea.

The pros and cons of Marxism is something else entirely and I don't claim to be an expert so I'll sign off here.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 20, 2022)

The point is that the BoE is not “independent” of the state.  It is _part_ of the state.  The pretence that it is independent is merely embedding certain assumptions regarding economics as being beyond question.

There is no argument being made about the value of “independent” monetary policy that could not equally be made about “independent” fiscal policy.  Would you favour an independent body setting tax rates?  How about one to determine what government spends its money on?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2022)

I know I'm showing my age and all that, but this really made me splutter the old Bishop's Finger!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 20, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Ah ok, the whole thing started when we were discussing Liz Truss's plan to interfere in the BoE's independence, which I don't think is a fabulous idea.
> 
> The pros and cons of Marxism is something else entirely and I don't claim to be an expert so I'll sign off here.


You don't have to be an expert on Marxism to get the idea behind political economy. It's simply the idea that you cannot separate an economic system from the powers that own and control it - those powers and the means they use _are the system_.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The lack of transparency of the UK government is a disgrace and needs to be challenged. Covid illustrated that very clearly - SAGE discussions were kept secret here in the UK, while their equivalents in other European countries had public minutes of every meeting. Ireland published the whole thing online.
> 
> That UK democracy has many very undemocratic elements (see also this current competition to become the new PM) is not an argument for anything other than that those undemocratic elements need challenging. Your solution seems to be that we should just give up on the aspiration of democratic accountability altogether.


It's really strange in light of what you say that there's loads of minutes of sage meetings on the Internet, just search sage meeting minutes


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2022)

From twitter, obvs, but really? Is hitting the ground a good thing?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 20, 2022)

not sure why tweeter was pointing me at the torygraph, but apparently there's a chunk of party members wanting to be able to vote for johnson



not quite sure if that's a  or a


----------



## contadino (Jul 20, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> not sure why tweeter was pointing me at the torygraph, but apparently there's a chunk of party members wanting to be able to vote for johnson
> 
> 
> 
> not quite sure if that's a  or a



The other 198,000 are undecided on the matter.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 20, 2022)

contadino said:


> The other 198,000 are undecided on the matter.



They've not been able to get in the day room


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jul 20, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> not sure why tweeter was pointing me at the torygraph, but apparently there's a chunk of party members wanting to be able to vote for johnson
> 
> 
> 
> not quite sure if that's a  or a



If there's a petition to give the job to Larry the cat I'd bet it would get more than 2k signatures.  A bunch of wailing gammon cranks shouldn't be news, even in the fucking Torygraph.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> From twitter, obvs, but really? Is hitting the ground a good thing?
> 
> View attachment 333599


Presumably going for "hit the ground _running_", but maybe an accidental moment of insight suggested that might be setting the bar too high.

"Let's start with just _hitting _the ground, and maybe we'll introduce movement a few months in, depending on how step one goes..."
"... NO! No stepping! We've _just _covered this...!"


----------



## elbows (Jul 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The lack of transparency of the UK government is a disgrace and needs to be challenged. Covid illustrated that very clearly - SAGE discussions were kept secret here in the UK, while their equivalents in other European countries had public minutes of every meeting. Ireland published the whole thing online.
> 
> That UK democracy has many very undemocratic elements (see also this current competition to become the new PM) is not an argument for anything other than that those undemocratic elements need challenging. Your solution seems to be that we should just give up on the aspiration of democratic accountability altogether.



Secrecy is certainly part of the scene, and has implications both for accountability but also other stuff such as revealing how power is spread or concentrated, what calculations are part of the mix, whether those calculations are unpalatable if revealed to the public, etc.

As Pickman's model has already pointed out, there are actually a large number of SAGE documents available online, including ones that are labelled as minutes. I wouldnt really call them full minutes, but then I would say the same about Irelands NPHAT documents too. They are both more like meeting summaries than actual formal minutes, eg often avoided revealing what specific individuals said.

Other relevant factors are that in most countries including the UK these bodies were involved with making recommendations rather than final decisions. Countries certainly varied in terms of how likely their elected government regimes were likely to turn those recommendations into policies without exception or delay, and the exact extent to which the bodies had formal decision-making capabilities, or how politically unacceptable a government going against them would have been considered to be by the opposition, the press etc.

Another key variable in terms of transparency is how quickly the information from key meetings is made public. When it comes to headline decisions and policy implications that are acted rapidly upon, the delay may be incredibly short, and the key March 2020 period of the pandemic was a good example of that. But when it came to the detail, there is usually some lag, especially when notes or minutes from the previous meeting have to be signed off by the group in a subsequent meeting. Having a well enshrined right to info in a timely fashion can help bring consistency to this area and reduce the temptation for political shenanigans. The UK was a poor example of this because SAGE publications were belatedly made public in a rather variable fashion, especially when it came to more sensitive topics. And even much more than a year intot he pandemic, it was not unusual to see some documents not being published for months, and some SAGE documents coming out very quickly if they involved some new policy the government had actually decided to finally implement.

I did look into Ireland and their key documents from the important March 2020 period. Some expert subgroups documents didnt start being properly published until April or May of that year. And there was an interesting gap in publication of some of the most important NPHAT meeting notes. For example their March 11th meeting was an important one, but using wayback machine I established that that meetings documents did not appear on the site until some time between April 13th and April 22nd 2020. However unlike our SAGE, their NPHAT was also responsible for daily public data and narrative documents via press release, so certain details did emerge in a more timely fashion or, like the UK, were obvious due to the policies government adopted. In the UK we were sometimes 'treated' to such things via leaks to the press instead, another kind of information control and selective filtering that belongs in a broader discussion about this stuff, and can serve as a more 'flexible' UK equivalent to mechanisms for provision or restriction of information in other countries.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2022)

Posted earlier by William Wragg MP; seems that some roles within the 1922 committee are more important than others...


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 20, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Besides, what's wrong with our current one, 'We're shit, and we know we are'?


Or there's the old faithful "Two world wars and one world cup, do dah, do dah..."


----------



## wow (Jul 20, 2022)

belboid said:


> You've got money on Mordaunt haven't you?


Gotcha. My “nailed on” choice has changed since the day Boris resigned.

I suppose yours hasn’t.

My first thought was : “they’ll go populist and familiar” — ie Sunak.

My second thought was : “they’d say screw that, we need new brooms” — eg Braverman.

However, once it became clear where the RW press were going, then Truss became the obvious and only candidate.

I think I said (when she was still the “fave”) that Mordaunt would be voted out for fear of “embarrassing” the wider party membership.

Which happened.

Good on you if you predicted Truss as well without following similar logic 😀

Cheers, MW


----------



## elbows (Jul 20, 2022)

Sorry that last post was long and that I have one more point which the pandemic version of such documents rather throws up. 

Countries in Europe had the advantage of responsibility for a lot of public health emergency planning and advice being centralised at the ECDC. Individual countries could still have their own public health expert bodies to deal with the pandemic, but at key moments those entities in their meeting documents would then refer to the very latest ECDC pandemic advice. Ireland certainly took advantage of that fact, and this was relevant because during the key March 2020 period of thinking the unthinkable, a couple of benign-looking sentences that were added to the latest ECDC document at the time, once Italy had gone to pandemic shit, made all the difference when it came to very quickly implementing huge social distancing (of the close stuff/lockdown variety) policies.

In theory the UK also had that luxury available to it, because we were still in a Brexit transition period where the ECDC had to use clunky language in all its documents by referring not just to the EU but the EU and UK. Pointing to that advice offered governments an easy mechanism to justify the need for strong, rapid action, governments can defer to a centralised authority in order to take most of the grubby politics and national exceptionalism out of the picture, and bypass any national lack of expert analysis resources and decent pandemic planning.

However of course the UK was not likely to do that, because of the government we happened to have at the time, and all the Brexit politics. I would also suggest that even if we hadnt had Brexit and were still fully fledged EU members at the time, our establishment might well still have not drawn attention to the ECDC at all. Our establishment always loved to project an image of highly concentrated power, and of decisions being made by one or a few elected politicians, even when some of the policy directions were actually part of a broader EU trend. Such is the level of absurdity that this country indulges in such things in that I would even extend this description to entities such as the section of the press that spent decades moaning about EU decisions - they tended to pick a few examples of that to cry about while leaving others that could seriously have been included totally untouched.  I suppose Brexit at least tidies up one layer of these glaring contradictions when it comes to the UKs presentation of its own power and the nature of decision making.

I expect relevant experts and some layers of government in the UK were actually reading the ECDC pandemic stuff at the time, but you'd be hard pressed to be made aware of it no matter what source you use, it doesnt tend to get a mention in even the most damning of UK press post-mortems of our first wave pandemic failures. If it receives no mention at all in the pandemic public inquiry then that will be another sign that the full story is still not being told, and I will probably feel the need to go into boring detail about some of the key ECDC documents from March 2020 all over again.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Posted earlier by William Wragg MP; seems that some roles within the 1922 committee are more important than others...
> 
> View attachment 333611



What is that fucking wallpaper.


----------



## elbows (Jul 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> What is that fucking wallpaper.



It may have a formal or informal role in gammon colour-matching charts.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> What is that fucking wallpaper.



surplus from the refurbishment of that twat johnson's living quarters?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Posted earlier by William Wragg MP; seems that some roles within the 1922 committee are more important than others...
> 
> View attachment 333611


Good to see it's the woman serving the tea.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 20, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Good to see it's the woman serving the tea.


Hopefully it has strychnine in it


----------



## two sheds (Jul 20, 2022)

Arsenic is traditional, there's loads of it round my place


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



We've had something very similar to this 5 or 10 pages back


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Arsenic is traditional, there's loads of it round my place


Hemlock would be more traditional


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> We've had something very similar to this 5 or 10 pages back


Okay.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Hemlock would be more traditional


True, although not on wallpaper.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2022)

two sheds said:


> True, although not on wallpaper.


Like to see the fuckers thrusting fingers down their throats trying in vain to vomit up the poison


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 20, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Another scrap of a  pleasure in life would be  to see Starmer losing to Truss....I hope he chokes on it


You would prefer that to a Labour govt?.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 20, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> You would prefer that to a Labour govt?.


Would  get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.

Blair winning was a massive fuck up and set back for this country,  no reason to think the same isnt true of Starmer winning


----------



## Humberto (Jul 20, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Would  get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
> If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.
> 
> Blair winning was a massive fuck up and set back for this country, no reason to think the same isnt true of Starmer winning



Tories out shirley


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 20, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Would get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
> If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.



no, if the labour 'centrists' lose an election or do badly in a poll, they take it as an indication that they haven't moved far enough to the right



Humberto said:


> Tories out shirley



yes, but what's the point of voting the blue tories out only to get the red tories?

i'm struggling to get enthusiastic about a "marginally less shit than the tories" platform


----------



## Humberto (Jul 20, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> no, if the labour 'centrists' lose an election or do badly in a poll, they take it as an indication that they haven't moved far enough to the right
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It doesn't especially matter. By the time Labour ever nominally gets its shit together it would be far too late.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Would  get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
> If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.
> 
> Blair winning was a massive fuck up and set back for this country,  no reason to think the same isnt true of Starmer winning



Truss winning a GE in 2024 would be a disaster for ordinary people. As I’ve said repeatedly Johnson’s spell in office will seem like a utopia given what comes next from them. 

But, what’s truly bizarre is the idea that a fifth general election defeat would somehow purify and revitalise Labour who, in this fantasy, would presumably sweep to power in 2029 after 19 years in opposition on a socialist programme.

The last 100 years tell us that Labour is far more likely to move even further to the right if Starmer loses. In fact that’s exactly what the Blairites plan to do and they are carefully biding their time. Labour could even split and a new elite liberal centrist vehicle emerge free of ties to the labour movement.

 I’d take - any day of the week- a useless Starmer Labour Government subject to pressure from the unions and what passes for the labour left these days over Truss and the insurgent Tory right characterised by Badenoch.

Electorally, a shit labour government is always the best we are going to get. So, regardless of electoral politics what really matters is what we can build and achieve collectively in our workplaces and communities. How successful that is, is up to us as it always has been.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

I've never understood people who claim to be left wing but spend all their energy hating on other factions of the left.   

That's one reason the Tories have stayed in power so long imo, they're better at burying their differences when they need to.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Would  get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
> If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.
> 
> Blair winning was a massive fuck up and set back for this country,  no reason to think the same isnt true of Starmer winning



Will you be voting Conservative at the next election then?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 21, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> I remember I was talking about the Irish Tea-sock thing with someone and whether it was a wind-up and they said no, she really is that stupid.


"Irish Tea-sock thing"?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I've never understood people who claim to be left wing but spend all their energy hating on other factions of the left.
> 
> That's one reason the Tories have stayed in power so long imo, they're better at burying their differences when they need to.


It's more fun burying our own


----------



## prunus (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Would  get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
> If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.
> 
> Blair winning was a massive fuck up and set back for this country,  no reason to think the same isnt true of Starmer winning



To my mind this is such a wrong-headed view as to be almost incomprehensible.   Yes the broad church Labour Party required to get sufficient electoral support to actually win requires some regrettable (from an idealistic point of view) compromises, but such is democracy. 

You’re suggesting that the only labour election victory in two generations was a “massive fuck up” - do I take it from that that you think that the UK would be in a better state now if we’d been under continuous Tory rule for the past 43 years?  I’d have to disagree with you there - that truly would be a one-party state.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 21, 2022)

grrrr dp fucked up quoting


----------



## two sheds (Jul 21, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> "Irish Tea-sock thing"?





two sheds said:


> She's only foreign secretary though, no reason she should know.


----------



## contadino (Jul 21, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



They can pull out whatever incriminating shit they have on Truss, but I really don't think the Tory membership will vote for anyone non-white.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 21, 2022)

That's desperate

Then again, Tory scum have never shown any respect towards any aspect of Ireland, its people, culture or language


----------



## [62] (Jul 21, 2022)

Stupefying.

Truss got her first ministerial post in the department I work for. Trying to be as non-partisan as I can, after working there for over 20 years you obviously get a feel for them - I mean, Eustice is a twat, obviously, but he's undoubtedly committed, Hillary Benn was one of the few who made the effort to meet the troops regularly etc. etc. - but Truss was invisible. Appeared to do absolutely nothing. I assumed that she was a flash in the pan, so was amazed to see that she was promoted again after a few years. And here we are 12 more down the line. What. The. Fuck.

Isn't she into that corporate synergies bullshit self-advancement voodoo? It obviously works. It's the only fucking explanation I can think of for how someone so vapidly talentless has advanced so quickly and so far.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 21, 2022)

contadino said:


> They can pull out whatever incriminating shit they have on Truss, but I really don't think the Tory membership will vote for anyone non-white.


i don't Sunak's ethnicity  is a huge issue with them. And Racists will often make exceptions for individuals. Bad Enoch was most popular candidate with the membership.


----------



## petee (Jul 21, 2022)

I did once hear an American newsreader pronounce the name of a certain all-ireland political party as "sin fin".


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 21, 2022)

Time for the "liz truss/rishi sunack's time is up" time is up threads?


----------



## kabbes (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I've never understood people who claim to be left wing but spend all their energy hating on other factions of the left.


This Labour Party is not a faction of the left, by any reasonable definition of that term. Can you tell me any policies they have that qualify them for that term?


----------



## Supine (Jul 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> This Labour Party is not a faction of the left, by any reasonable definition of that term. Can you tell me any policies they have that qualify them for that term?



An example of how badly labour are fractured. John McD accusing Starmer of stealing labour policies!


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 21, 2022)

Cummings  pen picture of Truss is brilliant


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 21, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> i don't Sunak's ethnicity  is a huge issue with them. And Racists will often make exceptions for individuals. Bad Enoch was most popular candidate with the membership.



Indeed. Both identity obsessed liberals and the insurgent right are seeking to commodify race. Sunak and Badenoch are the ‘right kind of blacks’ for Tories hence the focus on their back stories emphasising aspiration, graft and the brilliance of meritocratic Britain. In the case of Sunak voting for him is the narrative that justifies the structural realities.


----------



## prunus (Jul 21, 2022)

Supine said:


> An example of how badly labour are fractured. John McD accusing Starmer of stealing labour policies!




Why does it matter who developed the policies? (Not a rhetorical question - I’d actually like to know why he thinks it matters. And I’m generally a fan of John Mcd.)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 21, 2022)

prunus said:


> Why does it matter who developed the policies? (Not a rhetorical question - I’d actually like to know why he thinks it matters. And I’m generally a fan of John Mcd.)



Yeah there aren't many new ideas in politics. You'd think the important thing would be whether a policy actually happens or not, rather than who gets the credit for it. That's the bit that matters to ordinary punters.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 21, 2022)

I don't like the Labour Right because it views anyone to the right of them as decent reasonable debating fellows and anyone to the left of them as implacable enemies to be driven out of public life by any means necessary. We've just had a report confirming that senior Labour officials were actively campaigning against electoral success when there was a moderate social democratic programme before the electorate. The very least I can do is not vote for the fuckers.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah there aren't many new ideas in politics. You'd think the important thing would be whether a policy actually happens or not, rather than who gets the credit for it. That's the bit that matters to ordinary punters.


In a slightly ham-fisted manner, I suspect that's the point that JM was attempting to make; it just came across as self-referential sour-grapes.


----------



## prunus (Jul 21, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> I don't like the Labour Right because it views anyone to the right of them as decent reasonable debating fellows and anyone to the left of them as implacable enemies to be driven out of public life by any means necessary. We've just had a report confirming that senior Labour officials were actively campaigning against electoral success when there was a moderate social democratic programme before the electorate. The very least I can do is not vote for the fuckers.



I’d be very interested in that report, so know what it’s called/where I can find it? Thanks.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 21, 2022)

Has this been posted yet?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 21, 2022)




----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> no, if the labour 'centrists' lose an election or do badly in a poll, they take it as an indication that they haven't moved far enough to the right


this lot arent centrists


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The last 100 years tell us that Labour is far more likely to move even further to the right if Starmer loses. In fact that’s exactly what the Blairites plan to do....


...in power


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I've never understood people who claim to be left wing but spend all their energy hating on other factions of the left.


Starmer is not part of a left faction - he crushes left factions


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Will you be voting Conservative at the next election then?


i live in a tory safe seat at present
previously a labour safe seat
my vote is meaningless in our one party state


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 21, 2022)

prunus said:


> I’d be very interested in that report, so know what it’s called/where I can find it? Thanks


The Forde Report

I think it's flawed by a lack of consideration of power dynamics but it paints a decent picture of what was going on.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

prunus said:


> You’re suggesting that the only labour election victory in two generations was a “massive fuck up” - do I take it from that that you think that the UK would be in a better state now if we’d been under continuous Tory rule for the past 43 years?  I’d have to disagree with you there - that truly would be a one-party state.


Yes. Thatcher knew it, is why she said her biggest achievement was Tony Blair. With Blair and Blairism it was the death knell of any sense of opposition in UK parliamentary politics, of any meaningful alternative to vote for. It was the End of History for the struggle between Tories and Labour. A Starmer win bangs nails into that coffin.

Continuous Tory rule would have been preferable in my opinion - we have had continuous Tory rule anyway - but with Actual continuous Tory rule there would be more clarity about what opposition to it could be. After 43 years people might just stop and ask if the system isnt broken. Instead the illusion lives on


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> this lot arent centrists



Hence the inverted commas I suppose. They would probably describe themselves as centrists, even though it makes zero sense to only define your own politics by reference to that of other people.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Hence the inverted commas I suppose. They would probably describe themselves as centrists, even though it makes zero sense to only define your own politics by reference to that of other people.


what do we know about policy announcements so far? tax policy to the right of Sunak, commitment to more privatisation of the NHS and contradicting reality that Israel is an Apartheid state. Centrist in speech marks just doesnt work. Oh and weve got Rachel "Labour will be tougher than Tories on benefits" Reeves on the shadow bench too


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 21, 2022)

But when people are given the choice between a left-wing politician and a right-wing one, they choose the right-wing. Foot vs Thatcher or Corbyn Vs Bojo. 
If newspapers are against the leader then it makes it difficult. But you cannot get around this, or if you can you are talking censorship. Perhaps a law could be enacted it make the Newspapers more truthful. But that is not going to happen until Labour is in power. 
Both Foot and Corbyn were popular in their political corners but lacked wider support and without this wider support Labour are not going to win.
If the aim is for a left-wing government. there are going to need to compromise. 

Through years of media bias, I think the majority of people see themselves as right of centre and do not see themselves as natural Labour voters, even though they would greatly benefit. So we need a popular leader who can appeal to a wider audience and then start to enact more left wing policies once in power. Otherwise, it's just yelling from the sidelines with the newspapers taking the piss.  Whether Starmer is that person, Probably not.


----------



## Flavour (Jul 21, 2022)

i quite like Liz Truss she seems like a good laugh


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 21, 2022)

Flavour said:


> i quite like Liz Truss she seems like a good laugh


she'll be a better laugh when she's pushing up daisies


----------



## Flavour (Jul 21, 2022)

isn't the objective of the game to make people laugh? one of Britain's most successful cultural exports is comedy. the only shame is that we won't get to see a Liz Truss / Donald Trump joint press conference, that would have been absolutely peak


----------



## teqniq (Jul 21, 2022)

Judging by all the comments on here and Twitter, she's just the car crash the vermin need.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> This Labour Party is not a faction of the left, by any reasonable definition of that term. Can you tell me any policies they have that qualify them for that term?


In the UK (a generally conservative leaning country) they are left of the median voter on both economic and social issues and no one could reasonably argue otherwise.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 21, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Has this been posted yet?



God help us/you/them all

Why are they so utterly shit?


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> i live in a tory safe seat at present
> previously a labour safe seat
> my vote is meaningless in our one party state


Sounds like a red wall seat which are actually the key battleground in the next election? Don't assume it will be safe. Individual votes do matter.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 21, 2022)




----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 21, 2022)

Flavour said:


> isn't the objective of the game to make people laugh? one of Britain's most successful cultural exports is comedy. the only shame is that we won't get to see a Liz Truss / Donald Trump joint press conference, that would have been absolutely peak


Don't be so sure of that


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 21, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Judging by all the comments on here and Twitter, she's just the car crash the vermin need.



Talk she a bojo plant so he can sneak back in at some point

Full expecting him to pull a trump move and let out a tweet going miss me yet before Christmas


----------



## kabbes (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> In the UK (a generally conservative leaning country) they are left of the median voter on both economic and social issues and no one could reasonably argue otherwise.


This is relativist nonsense. It implies that Mussolini would have been left wing in Nazi Germany. The terms left and right refer to how the ownership and employment of capital and labour are ideologically positioned. If you believe in free market neoliberalism then you are right wing. You don’t become left wing just because somebody else has an even more fundamentalist hot  take on it than you do.  The current Labour Party are politically right wing


----------



## maomao (Jul 21, 2022)

.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 21, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> Talk she a bojo plant so he can sneak back in at some point
> 
> Full expecting him to pull a trump move and let out a tweet going miss me yet before Christmas


Yes, I've seen those thoughts too. Very little would surprise me at this  point, particularly with Johnson talking about 'the deep state'.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> But when people are given the choice between a left-wing politician and a right-wing one, they choose the right-wing. Foot vs Thatcher or Corbyn Vs Bojo.
> If newspapers are against the leader then it makes it difficult. But you cannot get around this, or if you can you are talking censorship. Perhaps a law could be enacted it make the Newspapers more truthful. But that is not going to happen until Labour is in power.
> Both Foot and Corbyn were popular in their political corners but lacked wider support and without this wider support Labour are not going to win.
> If the aim is for a left-wing government. there are going to need to compromise.
> ...


The logic of your post is just have all parties as Tory parties.
Worth remembering Corbyn was ahead in the polls for the majority of his time as leader, lost by 2% in the popular vote to May, etc. a win from the left is not impossible, but it is literally impossible if there are no parties of the left in contention



Cat Fan said:


> Sounds like a red wall seat which are actually the key battleground in the next election? Don't assume it will be safe. Individual votes do matter.


i live in London


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Would  get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
> If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.
> 
> Blair winning was a massive fuck up and set back for this country,  no reason to think the same isnt true of Starmer winning


Why the fuck would you want more of the tories?.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 21, 2022)

A safe seat is one that’s not changed in twenty plus years. Like mine


----------



## killer b (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> In the UK (a generally conservative leaning country) they are left of the median voter on both economic and social issues and no one could reasonably argue otherwise.


this isn't true - polling generally shows the country to the left of all parties on economic issues - wide support for nationalisations and general keynesian stuff at least. Socially it's a bit more of a wild mix that really depends what question is asked and how, but it's still not really true that Britain is particularly conservative.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> The logic of your post is just have all parties as Tory parties.
> Worth remembering Corbyn was ahead in the polls for the majority of his time as leader, lost by 2% in the popular vote to May, etc. a win from the left is not impossible, but it is literally impossible if there are no parties of the left in contention


But Johnson had an 80-seat majority. This was after a further 2 years for people to see Corbyn as a party leader, if what you said is the case he should have increased his lead in the popular vote in 2019, if not a majority of seats. An election decided by the percentage of the population voting for them is not going to happen until there is a leader who can appeal to a large broad population and win a GE and then change the voting system from FPTP.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Why the fuck would you want more of the tories?.


TOries are the only two options on the table. Id like to have a non-TOry option


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 21, 2022)

You get a left leaning government when the papers and media aren’t fully fucking aligned in tells us how bad Evil Jam Man wants to sell your Kids to Paedos.

It’s not rocket science, the government and media are ever more closely entwined to pursue profit at the expense of people and push an agenda to keep us divided and the state weak in the face of corporate domination.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Why the fuck would you want more of the tories?.



Blair suggested people shouldnt vote Labour in 2019 - de facto Wants More Tories - so you might want to turn that question to him and his Starmer acolytes


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 21, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> So we need a popular leader who can appeal to a wider audience and then start to enact more left wing policies once in power.



I've been hearing this for 40 years or more. And it's rubbish. Essentially you are saying we elect a leader of the Labour party who can trick the electorate then fiendishly open up a left wing manifesto when in power. No individual would ever act this way and even if they did the structures of power are aligned against allowing this to happen. Once in power Labour always moves to the right, and there's a reason for this.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 21, 2022)

I was wrong with my previous post wasn't I. Its gonna be Truss.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> TOries are the only two options on the table. Id like to have a non-TOry option


There should be a Tusc or Workers Revolutionary party option for you to vote for.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> i live in London


There are not so many safe Tory seats in London. More are turning red or yellow every election. I'm assuming you are in the outer boroughs where you may find the Lib Dems have the best chance of beating the Tories?


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> this isn't true - polling generally shows the country to the left of all parties on economic issues - wide support for nationalisations and general keynesian stuff at least. Socially it's a bit more of a wild mix that really depends what question is asked and how, but it's still not really true that Britain is particularly conservative.


Not sure that gives the whole picture, the Brexit vote was a thing as well. And tax rises are hugely unpopular.

Nationalisation is just popular because people think it would give them lower bills, which it probably would to be fair.


----------



## Santino (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Nationalisation is just popular because people think it would give them lower bills, which it probably would to be fair.


Bah. Idiotic voters supporting policies just because they would make things better.


----------



## prunus (Jul 21, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> The Forde Report
> 
> I think it's flawed by a lack of consideration of power dynamics but it paints a decent picture of what was going on.



Thank you; I've only read section 4 so far, as directly relevant so it seems to me to the idea that senior officials were actively campaigning against electoral success - it doesn't read to me that the report supports that idea, it says that yes there were people operating 'below the radar' (and wrongly) to divert support to [anti-Corbyn] MPs who were being underfunded by the leadership, but in an attempt to maximise electoral success (or minimise losses), not to damage success.  It also says that the leadership was guilty of diverting funding to [pro-Corbyn] MPs who normally wouldn't get such funding (being deemed to be in safe seats), away from [anti-corbyn] MPs in seats that were at risk.  It also seems to suggest that the former action of HQ was in response to the latter described action of the leadership.

Overall it paints a picture of a clusterfuck of a riven party, but explicitly says that both sides were acting in what they thought was the best interests of the party and its electoral success, and there wasn't any sabotage of that being attempted.


----------



## killer b (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Not sure that gives the whole picture, the Brexit vote was a thing as well. And tax rises are hugely unpopular.
> 
> Nationalisation is just popular because people think it would give them lower bills, which it probably would to be fair.


People voted for Brexit for a mixture of reasons, many which couldn't really be considered right wing. And tax rises for rich people are very popular - 64% think the rich are taxed too little. 









						Are taxes on the rich too high or low in Britain?
					

Thinking about the level of taxes paid by the richest people in Britain, do you think they are too high, too low, or about right?




					yougov.co.uk


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

Santino said:


> Bah. Idiotic voters supporting policies just because they would make things better.


Not at all saying that voters are idiotic. They just don't want nationalisation for the same reasons as those who would identify as left wing.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Not sure that gives the whole picture, the Brexit vote was a thing as well. And tax rises are hugely unpopular.


Brexit wasn’t right wing. I think you’re getting social conservatism mixed up with economic doctrine. People voting for Brexit may have been traditionalists or protectionists or authoritarian or many other things but they were voting _against_ the tenets of capitalism, if anything.  


Cat Fan said:


> Nationalisation is just popular because people think it would give them lower bills, which it probably would to be fair.


Nationalisation is popular because people like the results of nationalisation?  Sounds pretty left wing to me.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> People voted for Brexit for a mixture of reasons, many which couldn't really be considered right wing. And tax rises for rich people are very popular - 64% think the rich are taxed too little.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The majority are in favour of more taxes on people who aren't them, in poll shocker


----------



## kabbes (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Not at all saying that voters are idiotic. They just don't want nationalisation for the same reasons as those who would identify as left wing.


What are the reasons of those who would “identify”* as left wing?

*Frankly, your use of the word “identify” there is incredibly revealing. Politics as positioning rather than conviction.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Brexit wasn’t right wing. I think you’re getting social conservatism mixed up with economic doctrine. People voting for Brexit may have been traditionalists or protectionists or authoritarian or many other things but they were voting _against_ the tenets of capitalism, if anything.
> 
> Nationalisation is popular because people like the results of nationalisation?  Sounds pretty left wing to me.


People did not vote Brexit to stick one in the eye of capitalism. Except for a tiny number of #Lexit loonies


----------



## A380 (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Would  get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
> If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.
> 
> Blair winning was a massive fuck up and set back for this country,  no reason to think the same isnt true of Starmer winning



You really do have the political analysis of sixth former don’t you…


----------



## kabbes (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> People did not vote Brexit to stick one in the eye of capitalism. Except for a tiny number of #Lexit loonies


They certainly didn’t vote Brexit to advance the interests of capital, though, did they?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> People voting for Brexit may have been traditionalists or protectionists or authoritarian or many other things but they were voting _against_ the tenets of capitalism, if anything.








						What are the tenets of capitalism? – Greed-Head.com
					






					greed-head.com
				



which of these do you think brexiteers were voting against?


----------



## killer b (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> The majority are in favour of more taxes on people who aren't them, in poll shocker


They are in favour of progressive taxation, which should form a key part of any serious left-wing electoral programme.


----------



## A380 (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> i live in a tory safe seat …



Explains a lot .


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> People did not vote Brexit to stick one in the eye of capitalism. Except for a tiny number of #Lexit loonies


A lot of people did vote Brexit to stick one in the eye of the established order, which happens to be a neoliberal established order. You're right that the the explicit 'lexit' vote was small, but in this kind of referendum, the 'change' vote is generally an indication of not being satisfied with how things are going. At that particular point in time in 2016, after several years of brutal 'austerity', more people were pissed off with how things were going than were ok with it. 

I would suggest that what the Brexit vote wasn't was a widespread indication that people thought the EU was not capitalist enough and the UK needed to be freed from its shackles. That's the line put forward by a certain kind of Tory brexiteer, but it doesn't hold water. In many instances, the same people who voted leave also strongly support things like rail renationalisation.


----------



## A380 (Jul 21, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Why the fuck would you want more of the tories?.



So you can bask in your political purity obvs. And feel good telling cook about socialism when you are back for the hols.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> They certainly didn’t vote Brexit to advance the interests of capital, though, did they?


I certainly spoke to people who believed in all the wonderful deals we would be free to sign.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> They are in favour of progressive taxation, which should form a key part of any serious left-wing electoral programme.


A truly progressive taxation system would include a wealth tax, which just scrolling down on the YouGov link you shared, people are 2:1 against.

It's a loaded question to ask whether the rich should be taxed more. Everyone has a different idea of what qualifies as rich and no one thinks they are rich themselves.


----------



## A380 (Jul 21, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 21, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> There should be a Tusc or Workers Revolutionary party option for you to vote for.


The £500 deposit for standing in elections is a real barrier for smaller parties. If there are dedicated people within a seat eager to stand next time, start saving now!


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

A380 said:


> Explains a lot .


What does it explain? I've moved two miles south from Lewisham as it's cheaper and crossed a ward boundary


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2022)

A380 said:


> You really do have the political analysis of sixth former don’t you…


Speak up now, play the ball
Look forward to hearing your grown up politics about Starmer and the grown ups back in the room


----------



## killer b (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> A truly progressive taxation system would include a wealth tax, which just scrolling down on the YouGov link you shared, people are 2:1 against.


You're misreading the poll - the poll only asks which method of taxation the respondents think is fairer, not whether they would support a wealth tax at all. I expect a wealth tax aimed at the very wealthy would poll well.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 21, 2022)

**


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Speak up now, play the ball
> Look forward to hearing your grown up politics about Starmer and the grown ups back in the room


the phrase you were searching for is 'i'd rather stay a child and keep my self-respect if being an adult means being like you'


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 21, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> **



sunak will not know the prices of any of the components nor the total spent


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 21, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> **





Jesus Christ.


----------



## Sue (Jul 21, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Jesus Christ.


We really need rolleyes/vomit reaction options for posts like that...


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 21, 2022)




----------



## A380 (Jul 21, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> **



So he's giving them the finger?


----------



## elbows (Jul 21, 2022)

Whichever one gets in, this will be the first time we have a PM who is younger than me, although in the case of Truss only by a few months.

Having now had some years of seeing people around my age starting to rise to the senior management positions, I'm as unimpressed as I have always expected to be. Although its not quite a fair test due to the nature of the prevailing economic and ideological shit during this era.

They've grown up being surrounded by people who had to justfy the unjustifiable, thats the default that they are now well practiced at imitating. I supose the real test will be if reality bites all this shit on the arse at some point and forced them to face a very different situation.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> People did not vote Brexit to stick one in the eye of capitalism. Except for a tiny number of #Lexit loonies



On sentence 1,  sticking it to the establishment (and their corporeal Remainer fellow travellers, who use phrases like like 'Lexit Loonies') was a core reason - particularly among working class leave voters - for voting to leave the EU neo-liberal project:



			https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0309816819873310
		


On sentence 2, why have you put a hashtag next to Lexit? Have you got U75 mixed up with FBPE Twitter?


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 21, 2022)

All looks a bit Peter principle to me.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 21, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> All looks a bit Peter principle to me.




Well beyond this, none of these people should be trusted to run a village fete cake stall


----------



## Supine (Jul 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> They certainly didn’t vote Brexit to advance the interests of capital, though, did they?



Bet Reese Mogg did


----------



## elbows (Jul 21, 2022)

When searching for a fair view of the real politics of the people in this country, we should include things like how well received the tv appearances by Mick Lynch were. And all the occasions where the media had to adjust their tune when the level of public support for certain strikes became undeniable, eg I'll always remember the BBC having to shift a little when people were honking their support for striking firefighters.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> On sentence 1,  sticking it to the establishment (and their corporeal Remainer fellow travellers, who use phrases like like 'Lexit Loonies') was a core reason - particularly among working class leave voters - for voting to leave the EU neo-liberal project:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Leaving the EU neoliberal project - so we can have our own 10x worse neoliberal project. Who needs human rights? Lexiters played a blinder.


----------



## andysays (Jul 21, 2022)

Sorry to drag the thread back to the subject of the Tory leadership contest, but it looks like Truss is pursuing a strategy which could feed further divisions within the party

Conservative leadership: Liz Truss says Tory economic policy choked growth​


> The economic policies of previous Conservative and Labour governments over 20 years have not delivered growth, Tory leadership candidate Liz Truss has said. Ms Truss has criticised tax increases introduced by her rival Rishi Sunak, arguing they "choked off" growth...
> 
> ...The head-to-head leadership contest is intensifying, as Ms Truss made her pitch in an interview with the BBC, describing herself as someone who would "drive-through change". She said: "We have had a consensus of the Treasury, of economists, with the Financial Times, with other outlets, peddling a particular type of economic policy for 20 years. It hasn't delivered growth." Ms Truss said those in the Treasury - where she once worked under a Conservative government - "do have economic orthodoxy and they do resist change. What people in Britain desperately need now is change," Ms Truss said.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 21, 2022)




----------



## Supine (Jul 21, 2022)

andysays said:


> Sorry to drag the thread back to the subject of the Tory leadership contest, but it looks like Truss is pursuing a strategy which could feed further divisions within the party
> 
> Conservative leadership: Liz Truss says Tory economic policy choked growth​



In that interview she was pressed to say which leading economists agreed with her idea for low tax improving inflation. She only said Minford and couldn’t expand the answer. Basically the brexiteer go to man for idiotic financial advise.


----------



## Spandex (Jul 21, 2022)

andysays said:


> Sorry to drag the thread back to the subject of the Tory leadership contest, but it looks like Truss is pursuing a strategy which could feed further divisions within the party
> 
> Conservative leadership: Liz Truss says Tory economic policy choked growth​


Truss really is taking this Thatcher cosplay seriously.

In 1981 364 economists signed a letter criticising Thatcher's economic plans; one of the few economists to support Thatcher was Patrick Minford.

Now economists are lining up to criticise Truss' economic plans; the only economist to support Truss is Patrick Minford.

Where will this plan to copy Thatcher end? A windfall tax on the banks and oil industry? Since Thatcher's tax cuts were paid for by North Sea oil revenue is she busy sending prospectors out in the hope of finding new oil reserves off Aberdeen?

FFS, it's not the 1980s any more.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 21, 2022)

Spandex said:


> FFS, it's not the 1980s any more.


I'm afraid it is.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 21, 2022)

Spandex said:


> Where will this plan to copy Thatcher end?


In a general election.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 21, 2022)

Raheem said:


> In a general election.



That's not how Thatcher ended


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 21, 2022)

And somebody should try to blow her up in a Brighton hotel room first.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 21, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> That's not how Thatcher ended


Yes, hence the plan to copy Thatcher will have come to an end.


----------



## extra dry (Jul 21, 2022)

comedy clip; pretty short and quite funny. the leadership race, scary stuff


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I've never understood people who claim to be left wing but spend all their energy hating on other factions of the left.
> 
> That's one reason the Tories have stayed in power so long imo, they're better at burying their differences when they need to.


Do you believe you are "left-wing"?
Because on this, and other, threads you've argued for the neutrality of economics and that people have 'had it good' the last decade.  


Cat Fan said:


> In the UK (a generally conservative leaning country) they are left of the median voter on both economic and social issues and no one could reasonably argue otherwise.


Absolute rubbish as KB and kabbes have pointed out. Not only are voters to the left of the LP on economic issues, the populace of the UK is not especially socially conservative - were you completely blind during the last month pride flags were literally everywhere, views on transgender issues are not especially conservative, views on race have shifted hugely in the last 30, or even 10 years 


A380 said:


> So you can bask in your political purity obvs. And feel good telling cook about socialism when you are back for the hols.


As opposed to basking in the political purity of telling anyone who did not vote for a neo-liberal party they were supporting the Tories.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 21, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 333734


In case this story didn’t break in Englandshire:



Watch the interviewer’s face.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 21, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> In case this story didn’t break in Englandshire:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch the interviewer’s face.




Is this like 'what happened next?'

I think we should be told.


----------



## Knotted (Jul 21, 2022)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 21, 2022)

yougov poll of party members, first since only 2 have been left in the running, Truss has increased her lead.

Sunak 38% / Truss 62%


----------



## Sue (Jul 21, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> In case this story didn’t break in Englandshire:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch the interviewer’s face.



I sometimes think they must be doing it deliberately as surely they can't actually be that rubbish.  

(See also Labour.)


----------



## LDC (Jul 21, 2022)

Knotted said:


>




She belongs as a small part in The Thick of It. Some catastrophic disaster of a MP that lasts one episode. No like the actual PM ffs.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 21, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> yougov poll of party members, first since only 2 have been left in the running, Truss has increased her lead.
> 
> Sunak 38% / Truss 62%



Only the S&M videos can save us now.

And I actually think Rishi's are much better.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 21, 2022)

Ooops:


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Do you believe you are "left-wing"?


I'm a Green party member. You can draw your own conclusions. Please keep it civil rather than going personal.

If voters are generally to the left of LP on all issues as you say, then they must be very confused when they get into the polling booth and find themselves voting Labour & Tory (I'm thinking of England. You can make a different case for Wales & Scotland).


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 21, 2022)

Rishi Sunak sounds amazingly like Will off the Inbetweeners when he does campaign speaking. Try listening with your eyes closed - uncanny shit.


----------



## killer b (Jul 21, 2022)

My brother points out that he sounds like Ed Miliband if you close your eyes


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 21, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> Rishi Sunak sounds amazingly like Will off the Inbetweeners when he does campaign speaking. Try listening with your eyes closed - uncanny shit.



Will after he organised the school prom.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 21, 2022)

Love him or loathe him,  this is quite good.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I'm a Green party member. You can draw your own conclusions. Please keep it civil rather than going personal.


That tell me you are a member of a liberal party that uses scab labour, it does not tell me how you think of yourself.


Cat Fan said:


> If voters are generally to the left of LP on all issues as you say, then they must be very confused when they get into the polling booth and find themselves voting Labour & Tory (I'm thinking of England. You can make a different case for Wales & Scotland).


Who are voters supposed to vote for if they want to see redistribution? Never mind that there are all types of reasons that people vote - tactical, emotional, cultural. Politics starts outside the voting booth.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 21, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Ooops:



That's screwed him out of winning then


----------



## existentialist (Jul 21, 2022)

LDC said:


> She belongs as a small part in The Thick of It. Some catastrophic disaster of a MP that lasts one episode. No like the actual PM ffs.


Ah, but the Thick Of it It is only satire. This is _reality_


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 21, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Ah, but the Thick Of it It is only satire. This is _reality_


Watching the Thick of It now feels like a reminder of a very different time a long while ago


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 21, 2022)




----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> That tell me you are a member of a liberal party that uses scab labour, it does not tell me how you think of yourself.
> 
> Who are voters supposed to vote for if they want to see redistribution? Never mind that there are all types of reasons that people vote - tactical, emotional, cultural. Politics starts outside the voting booth.


Genuinely baffled   

I don't think either of us is going to convince anyone so let's leave it there perhaps.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2022)

Baffled by what? You did not know your party employed scab labour. Virtually everything you've posted on this thread has been twaddle.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

You are entitled to your opinions Mr/Mrs redsquirrel but I think it's time to draw a line underneath as this discussion is getting increasingly deranged and off topic.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 21, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>



Quite a subdued tie for Mark Mardell.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> You are entitled to your opinions Mr/Mrs redsquirrel but I think it's time to draw a line underneath as this discussion is getting increasingly deranged and off topic.



I agree.

But, if you are genuinely baffled by redsquirrel's posts, check out what the Greens have done when in control of Brighton & Hove City Council.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 21, 2022)

Just to re-trivialise matters again...this did make me laugh (quite a lot)


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I agree.
> 
> But, if you are genuinely baffled by redsquirrel's posts, check out what the Greens have done when in control of Brighton & Hove City Council.


If you have any articles on it I will take a look. About the bin strike I am guessing? I saw the rubbish piling up to the sky one time when I visited.


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Just to re-trivialise matters again...this did make me laugh (quite a lot)
> 
> View attachment 333772


Looks more like the gendarme in Allo allo


----------



## Knotted (Jul 21, 2022)

The whole Liz Truss used to be a Lib Dem anti-monarchist and then a remainer thing doesn't hold weight. It's not like she's posturing now just for the Tory base because she is genuinely crackers. You can't fake that.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 21, 2022)

Yes, there’s nowt more zealous than a convert. So she used to believe in different things — so what?  It’s not going to affect the faithful other than to be proud of her journey.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Yes, there’s nowt more zealous than a convert. So she used to believe in different things — so what?  It’s not going to affect the faithful other than to be proud of her journey.


And when she was a kid, I just don't get why people think it means anything.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> And when she was a kid, I just don't get why people think it means anything.


Agreed, but worth noting that Sunak thought it did in that first TV 'debate' when he asked her which she most regretted, being a LIbDem or being a remainer.


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 21, 2022)

Apparently Rishi has been treating the lobby to name branded care packages:




WTF?


----------



## belboid (Jul 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> And when she was a kid, I just don't get why people think it means anything.


Does anyone? It’s just vaguely amusing


----------



## contadino (Jul 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> And when she was a kid, I just don't get why people think it means anything.


Demonstrates that she can put the fick in fickle.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Yes, there’s nowt more zealous than a convert. So she used to believe in different things — so what?  It’s not going to affect the faithful other than to be proud of her journey.


Also validates that fucking nauseatingly nonsense belief that tory cunts all seem to share that you inevitably become more right wing as you "grow-up".


----------



## Flavour (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> You are entitled to your opinions Mr/Mrs redsquirrel but I think it's time to draw a line underneath as this discussion is getting increasingly deranged and off topic.



I like how in pretending that you don't make assumptions about gender you have used sexist prefixes, it's quite wonderful and sort of sums you up. You think of yourself as being progressive and left wing but are actually quite conservative


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

Funny how I wrote a post saying the left doesn't stick together enough and then a bunch of random people start hounding me for not being left enough for their tastes. 

No offence intended chaps. I didn't want to misgender anyone either it was just a passing remark. I have lots of close friends and family who are LGBTQI+ and I'm always willing to learn to be more inclusive and welcoming


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 21, 2022)

Back in the real world. Quite fanciful but this would be amazing if it happened.









						Boris Johnson could face byelection if inquiry finds he misled MPs over Partygate
					

Recall Act could be triggered with Johnson at risk of losing Uxbridge seat, HoC committee report suggests




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 21, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Funny how I wrote a post saying the left doesn't stick together enough and then a bunch of random people start hounding me for not being left enough for their tastes.
> 
> No offence intended chaps. I didn't want to misgender anyone either it was just a passing remark. I have lots of close friends and family who are LGBTQI+ and I'm always willing to learn to be more inclusive and welcoming


Admitting you can learn from others is a good start.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 21, 2022)

"What people in Britain desperately need now is change," Ms Truss said.

Whenever I hear her banging on about change:


----------



## wow (Jul 21, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Admitting you can learn from others is a good start.


That’s bully language. It might be acceptable in this forum, but it’s not outside. Ok?


----------



## Leighsw2 (Jul 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The last 100 years tell us that Labour is far more likely to move even further to the right if Starmer loses. In fact that’s exactly what the Blairites plan to do and they are carefully biding their time. Labour could even split and a new elite liberal centrist vehicle emerge free of ties to the labour movement.


I think that's right.


Smokeandsteam said:


> I’d take - any day of the week- a useless Starmer Labour Government subject to pressure from the unions and what passes for the labour left these days over Truss and the insurgent Tory right characterised by Badenoch.


The problem with this is that, in the short term, rather like Biden in the US, you remove the Right from government. But a weak centrist government (Biden, Macron) is unlikely to succeed. So in the long term, the Right return. But in the meantime they've moved even further to the right - in the US to become a far right movement, in France to literal fascism. God knows what the Tories will morph into during a Starmer government.


Smokeandsteam said:


> Electorally, a shit labour government is always the best we are going to get.


A sad lack of ambition that always becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 21, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> Rishi Sunak sounds amazingly like Will off the Inbetweeners when he does campaign speaking. Try listening with your eyes closed - uncanny shit.



Knew he sounded familiar! That's it, he's Briefcase Wanker.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Admitting you can learn from others is a good start.


We can all learn from each other if we keep an open mind and try to listen.

I don't appreciate your tone though.

Next time you feel like making an angry post attacking someone I suggest take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a bit instead. This isn't the right place for it.


----------



## [62] (Jul 22, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Yes, there’s nowt more zealous than a convert. So she used to believe in different things — so what?  It’s not going to affect the faithful other than to be proud of her journey.



Norman Tebbit is another who comes to mind.


----------



## domestos (Jul 22, 2022)

Whoever wins is going to have a nice little filip, by the next election the Tory gerrymandering boundary changes will  have grabbed  them an extra 20 plus seats


----------



## two sheds (Jul 22, 2022)

Trump said ‘lot of things that proved to be true’, says Liz Truss
					

Tory leadership hopeful wants G7 turned into ‘economic Nato’ to tackle influence of China




					www.independent.co.uk
				




fucking hell


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

domestos said:


> Whoever wins is going to have a nice little filip, by the next election the Tory gerrymandering boundary changes will  have grabbed  them an extra 20 plus seats


You do know that the boundaries are set by the boundaries commission and they're based on population changes? 

Due to demographic changes the South is becoming more Labour and the North more Conservative anyway so you never know what will happen.

And with Truss at the helm they will hopefully have a shocker of a campaign and lose anyway.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> We can all learn from each other if we keep an open mind and try to listen.
> 
> I don't appreciate your tone though.
> 
> Next time you feel like making an angry post attacking someone I suggest take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a bit instead. This isn't the right place for it.


Admitting you can learn from others is a good start


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> We can all learn from each other if we keep an open mind and try to listen.
> 
> I don't appreciate your tone though.
> 
> Next time you feel like making an angry post attacking someone I suggest take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a bit instead. This isn't the right place for it.


Yes it is.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2022)

wow said:


> That’s bully language. It might be acceptable in this forum, but it’s not outside. Ok?


Outside is overrated


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2022)

wow said:


> That’s bully language. It might be acceptable in this forum, but it’s not outside. Ok?


bully for you


----------



## pesh (Jul 22, 2022)




----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

Lol ok. The internet is incredibly toxic and I'm ok with that otherwise I wouldn't be on here.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> You do know that the boundaries are set by the boundaries commission and they're based on population changes?
> 
> Due to demographic changes the South is becoming more Labour and the North more Conservative anyway so you never know what will happen.


Ah yes, the boundaries commissions. Those independent public bodies whose members are appointed by ... the Cabinet Office.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 22, 2022)

Good to see these little ones developing their iron fists early on:


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ah yes, the boundaries commissions. Those independent public bodies whose members are appointed by ... the Cabinet Office.


Civil servants have a code of neutrality and that extends to cabinet office as well. I have friends who work in the civil service.

Not sure why I'm bothering though, keep sipping the kool aid as you wish.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I have lots of close friends and family who are LGBTQI+





Cat Fan said:


> I have friends who work in the civil service.



Friends are great for all occasions


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Funny how I wrote a post saying the left doesn't stick together enough and then a bunch of random people start hounding me for not being left enough for their tastes.
> 
> No offence intended chaps. I didn't want to misgender anyone either it was just a passing remark. I have lots of close friends and family who are LGBTQI+ and I'm always willing to learn to be more inclusive and welcoming


you should know the some of my best friends routine is no longer as effective as it was when first used


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 22, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Good to see these little ones developing their iron fists early on:



Thatcher went on to kids' TV and was made to look foolish. You would think Truss would have learnt from her role model not to do this.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Friends are great for all occasions


What an insightful comment. If you have something interesting to say instead of just sniping away please don't keep us in suspense.


----------



## prunus (Jul 22, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Thatcher went on to kids' TV and was made to look foolish. You would think Truss would have learnt from her role model not to do this.


No no, you miss the point - she's aping _everything_ - there's no quality control.  Clearly...


----------



## belboid (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Civil servants have a code of neutrality and that extends to cabinet office as well. I have friends who work in the civil service.
> 
> Not sure why I'm bothering though, keep sipping the kool aid as you wish.


The code of neutrality is utterly irrelevant.  The government set a policy designed to get more Tory seats by reducing the number in labour areas - cities tended to have fewer constituents in each seat compared to rural areas.  Civil servants then follow that plan obligingly.   They’re not to blame, but they do the governments dirty work for them.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> you should know the some of my best friends routine is no longer as effective as it was when first used


Bet he has friends who use the some of my best friends routine to great effect


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 22, 2022)

Leighsw2 said:


> The problem with this is that, in the short term, rather like Biden in the US, you remove the Right from government. But a weak centrist government (Biden, Macron) is unlikely to succeed



Yes, I agree. In fact, I'd go further and say that every time the liberal elite temporarily take control their approach and policy priorities embolden and strengthen the opposition and normally drive even more working class voters towards any politics that rejects the Professional Middle Class and its worldview, smugness and it's conscious abandonment of the constituency it once professed some claim to speak for (or at least have some alliance with). 

However, the Tories are moving in a particular direction socially, culturally and politically and the insurgent right ascendant. The best that can be hoped for at this point is some time to allow work to build unions and communities. Not a lot to be positive about I accept, but hoping for a Tory win as a trigger for better is barking mad (which is what the post I was replying to sugested).


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 22, 2022)

belboid said:


> The code of neutrality is utterly irrelevant.  The government set a policy designed to get more Tory seats by reducing the number in labour areas - cities tended to have fewer constituents in each seat compared to rural areas.  Civil servants then follow that plan obligingly.   They’re not to blame, but they do the governments dirty work for them.



Are you suggesting that all governments should ensure that city constituencies have smaller electorates?


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

belboid said:


> The code of neutrality is utterly irrelevant.  The government set a policy designed to get more Tory seats by reducing the number in labour areas - cities tended to have fewer constituents in each seat compared to rural areas.  Civil servants then follow that plan obligingly.   They’re not to blame, but they do the governments dirty work for them.


Isn't that just because the population in cities is growing more quickly so they need to balance the constituencies out? Same thing when they review ward boundaries.


----------



## belboid (Jul 22, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Are you suggesting that all governments should ensure that city constituencies have smaller electorates?


It was an informal agreement for well over a century, from before Labour were even a thing.  Mostly in recognition of the fact that cities brought more ‘issues’

But whether you agree with that or not, the point is that governments know how they want to fiddle the figures then civil servants go and do it


----------



## belboid (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Isn't that just because the population in cities is growing more quickly so they need to balance the constituencies out? Same thing when they review ward boundaries.


No


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> What an insightful comment. If you have something interesting to say instead of just sniping away please don't keep us in suspense.



voting for the greens will save the liberal establishment, not the planet


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> voting for the greens will save the liberal establishment, not the planet


Ok   who do you support?


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

belboid said:


> No


What are the rules that work against cities?


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Next time you feel like making an angry post attacking someone I suggest take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a bit instead. This isn't the right place for it.



you're new round here, aren't you?


----------



## belboid (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> What are the rules that work against cities?


There aren’t ‘rules’ it’s just practise.  Every single time there is a review it ends up benefitting the government of the day.  Do you think that’s just a coincidence?


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

belboid said:


> There aren’t ‘rules’ it’s just practise.  Every single time there is a review it ends up benefitting the government of the day.  Do you think that’s just a coincidence?


Ok so you're basing your views on a bad feeling about civil servants being leaned on by the government, not on any facts, got you.

You may be right but the final recommendations haven't even been published yet so it seems premature to judge.

AFAIK they have pretty strict rules as to size of each constituency so not that much room to bend them.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Ok   who do you support?


Sinn Fein


----------



## belboid (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Ok so you're basing your views on a bad feeling about civil servants being leaned on by the government, not on any facts, got you.
> 
> You may be right but the final recommendations haven't even been published yet so it seems premature to judge.
> 
> AFAIK they have pretty strict rules as to size of each constituency so not that much room to bend them.


It’s getting very difficult to remain polite with you when you are determined to read something completely different to what’s written.  

There is no need to ‘lean on’ civil servants, they just frame the policy in such a way that there is practically no choice in what to do.  

And you are wrong about the size of constituencies.  The tories are bringing in a rule where they must be within 5% of each other (with a couple of special exceptions), up until now there has only been very loose guidance.


----------



## JimW (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Ok so you're basing your views on a bad feeling about civil servants being leaned on by the government, not on any facts, got you.
> 
> You may be right but the final recommendations haven't even been published yet so it seems premature to judge.
> 
> AFAIK they have pretty strict rules as to size of each constituency so not that much room to bend them.


The proposals for my own rural constituency that is a Lab Tory marginal make no sense historically, by population or any other metric other than spreading Labour voters round neighbouring safe Tory seats. It's not even subtle.


----------



## Knotted (Jul 22, 2022)

Sunak is the "leave things as they are" candidate, and that's because he's a hardline Thatcherite not in spite of it. I actually think in terms of Tory survival that he's the worst possible choice for them. A feckless ideologue who will preside over their permanent decline. IME people who think they are Thatcherites actually want change even if they're not sure what that change is and even if they've had pretty much everything their way for the last 43 years. Truss may deliver something newish, she may even surprise us all in 2022 as Starmer becomes the man representing stasis.


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 22, 2022)

Sunak has marginally less chance of destroying the Tory party for the next decade.

The only "newish' thing Liz Truss will deliver is some excruciating instagram photo ops and economic illiteracy / ruin.

We're fucked anyway. We're all just marking time as the infrastructure of this way of living collapses slowly.


----------



## A380 (Jul 22, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Thatcher went on to kids' TV and was made to look foolish. You would think Truss would have learnt from her role model not to do this.


Thatcher wasn’t foolish . Despicable and many other things but not foolish. Truss though?


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

JimW said:


> The proposals for my own rural constituency that is a Lab Tory marginal make no sense historically, by population or any other metric other than spreading Labour voters round neighbouring safe Tory seats. It's not even subtle.


Which one is that? I'll take a look. I can believe it.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

belboid said:


> It’s getting very difficult to remain polite with you when you are determined to read something completely different to what’s written.
> 
> There is no need to ‘lean on’ civil servants, they just frame the policy in such a way that there is practically no choice in what to do.
> 
> And you are wrong about the size of constituencies.  The tories are bringing in a rule where they must be within 5% of each other (with a couple of special exceptions), up until now there has only been very loose guidance.


I think we broadly agree then. Under the new rules it seems reasonably tricky to gerrymander because of the +/- 5% thing.

The policy as written on the boundary commission website doesn't seem to have any obvious problems.

The only obvious political interference in the recent past has been MPs voting against reducing the number of MPs. That was never going to pass the commons lol, the gravy train must roll on.

I just think it's dangerous to cry gerrymandering because there are much worse examples in other countries like the US and it devalues the term.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I just think it's dangerous to cry gerrymandering because there are much worse examples in other countries like the US and it devalues the term.


british gerrymandering is so much more politely done than american gerrymandering.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Sinn Fein


Why on earth are you having such a go at the Green party of England and Wales then? Both parties are socially liberal and firmly on the left.

Who do you think people should vote for in England if they want to fight climate change?


----------



## JimW (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Which one is that? I'll take a look. I can believe it.


Stroud. Last time I checked they were looking to split out nailsworth and Dursley, for example.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Why on earth are you having such a go at the Green party of England and Wales then? Both parties are socially liberal and firmly on the left.
> 
> Who do you think people should vote for in England if they want to fight climate change?


Obvious, Sinn Fein of England and Wales.


----------



## JimW (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Why on earth are you having such a go at the Green party of England and Wales then? Both parties are socially liberal and firmly on the left.
> 
> Who do you think people should vote for in England if they want to fight climate change?


Should have stuck with Raymond Williams ecosocialists in Labour if you didn't want to split the electoral left.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Sinn Fein


i'd have thought someone like you would be more of an eirigi man, with their campaign for universal public housing and so on


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

JimW said:


> Stroud. Last time I checked they were looking to split out nailsworth and Dursley, for example.



Looks quite ok on first glance, but I have no idea really about the area.


----------



## belboid (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I think we broadly agree then. Under the new rules it seems reasonably tricky to gerrymander because of the +/- 5% thing.
> 
> The policy as written on the boundary commission website doesn't seem to have any obvious problems.
> 
> ...


christ, just look back at the previous changes.  Every single one of which gave the government of the day more seats.  This one (the outlines of which have been agreed for around seven or eight years) are due to give the tories an extra fifteen seats.   That's just a coincidence?  You cannot be that naive.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

belboid said:


> christ, just look back at the previous changes.  Every single one of which gave the government of the day more seats.  This one (the outlines of which have been agreed for around seven or eight years) are due to give the tories an extra fifteen seats.   That's just a coincidence?  You cannot be that naive.


Other explanations are possible. The boundaries only change for the next GE so we won't know for sure how it changes the electoral map until then.


----------



## JimW (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> View attachment 333857
> Looks quite ok on first glance, but I have no idea really about the area.


That removes Labour leaning Nailsworth which is unequivocally part of Stroud to dump it in Cotswold where there's no links geographic or historically. See Dursley's back.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

JimW said:


> That removes Labour leaning Nailsworth which is unequivocally part of Stroud to dump it in Cotswold where there's no links geographic or historically. See Dursley's back.


Nailsworth is still in there if you zoom in. Mind you there is a comment from a local councillor asking for it to be taken out so top marks to them for trying.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 22, 2022)

JimW said:


> That removes Labour leaning Nailsworth which is unequivocally part of Stroud to dump it in Cotswold where there's no links geographic or historically. See Dursley's back.


My oldest uncle lives in Dursley now, when I asked him about the politics he said 'tories look after the villages and the elderly in 'em' . Its still like stepping back a decade or two visiting those ends. The land that time forgot.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2022)

I can see a Boris comeback , following the inevitable Tory defeat , Rishi/Truss will resign , and Boris will be begged to return , given his credentials for winning shit . This is assuming he doesn't go off on a huff and either doesn't stand or loses his seat. 

Even if he loses his seat , I'm sure a Tory Grandee in an uber-safe seat could be persuaded to become a Lord and Boris slips in.

I'd be happy seeing him as Leader of the Opposition 🤣


----------



## JimW (Jul 22, 2022)

DotCommunist said:


> My oldest uncle lives in Dursley now, when I asked him about the politics he said 'tories look after the villages and the elderly in 'em' . Its still like stepping back a decade or two visiting those ends. The land that time forgot.


I like Dursley, resolutely non yummy Sunday supplement.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 22, 2022)

Never been to Dursley, but there used to be a race there called the Dursley Dozen


----------



## Wilf (Jul 22, 2022)

marty21 said:


> I can see a Boris comeback , following the inevitable Tory defeat , Rishi/Truss will resign , and Boris will be begged to return , given his credentials for winning shit . This is assuming he doesn't go off on a huff and either doesn't stand or loses his seat.
> 
> Even if he loses his seat , I'm sure a Tory Grandee in an uber-safe seat could be persuaded to become a Lord and Boris slips in.
> 
> I'd be happy seeing him as Leader of the Opposition 🤣


I don't see that happening tbh, largely because I think the vermin will still win the next GE.  At a pinch I could though seen johnson as the leader of some tory right/spirit of Brexit/alt-right slops tray.  Not actually leaving the tory party, but making portentous and loud speeches about winning our country back or similar - whilst making as much grubby/American/Saudi money as he can.


----------



## belboid (Jul 22, 2022)

JimW said:


> Stroud. Last time I checked they were looking to split out nailsworth and Dursley, for example.


Where I live they are going to split my council ward on two - something which is generally not recommended as it just creates confusion over who to lobby.   Half the ward will stay in the same constituency but the other half will go into Sheffield south east.  We’re in the north of the bloody city, SE makes no sense other than getting some random numbers to balance.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i'd have thought someone like you would be more of an eirigi man, with their campaign for universal public housing and so on


Can't vote for anyone these days, its more wishful thinking tbh


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Why on earth are you having such a go at the Green party of England and Wales then? Both parties are socially liberal and firmly on the left.
> 
> Who do you think people should vote for in England if they want to fight climate change?



I'd question if 'voting' has anything much to do with 'wanting to fight climate change'.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 22, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ah yes, the boundaries commissions. Those independent public bodies whose members are appointed by ... the Cabinet Office.


To their credit everything they do is online, including all comments from members of the public:





__





						2023 Review | Boundary Commission for England
					






					boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 22, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> A safe seat is one that’s not changed in twenty plus years. Like mine


The Honiton part of Tiverton and Honiton had been tory for all but one year of the last 200 before the recent by election. As safe as you can get


----------



## Raheem (Jul 22, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Never been to Dursley, but there used to be a race there called the Dursley Dozen


Not sure that's enough people to be considered a race.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Not sure that's enough people to be considered a race.


maybe there had been more of them before


----------



## Raheem (Jul 22, 2022)

An extinction event in Stroud? Sounds too good to be true.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> The majority are in favour of more taxes on people who aren't them, in poll shocker


Wel that's pretty much a given tbh, the majority are also broadly in favour of cutting benefits they don't get as well.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Why on earth are you having such a go at the Green party of England and Wales then? Both parties are socially liberal and firmly on the left.
> 
> Who do you think people should vote for in England if they want to fight climate change?


None of the above


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

Mad Max: Fury Road it is then lol


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 22, 2022)

Let's get back to the slagging off of Truss and Rishi 

Once seen...


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 22, 2022)

If I thought the Tories were running Roland Rat as a candidate it might be worth joining the Tory Party to make sure he got in.


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 22, 2022)

And to balance it up


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> View attachment 333857
> Looks quite ok on first glance, but I have no idea really about the area.


Can you tell the website where you got this from please


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Can you tell the website where you got this from please







__





						BCE Consultation Portal
					






					www.bcereviews.org.uk


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 22, 2022)

🤣


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 22, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> Obvious, Sinn Fein of England and Wales.


OMFG. I laughed so hard I farted. 🤣


----------



## Fuzzy (Jul 23, 2022)

contadino said:


> They can pull out whatever incriminating shit they have on Truss, but I really don't think the Tory membership will vote for anyone non-white.


and there lies the crux of it. mainly white retired males are not in my view going to want a man of Asian descent lead the country.


----------



## Fuzzy (Jul 23, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> 🤣



Hehe. the sheer stupidty of that tweet makes me chuckle.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 23, 2022)

Fuzzy said:


> and there lies the crux of it. mainly white retired males are not in my view going to want a man of Asian descent lead the country.


Then why was kemi badenoch, a women of Nigerian heritage, the most popular candidate with the tory membership?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 23, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Then why was kemi badenoch, a women of Nigerian heritage, the most popular candidate with the tory membership?


Well, TBF, she did compensate with some fairly out-there RW stuff. But perhaps there was never any chance of her getting through to the finals?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 23, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Then why was kemi badenoch, a women of Nigerian heritage, the most popular candidate with the tory membership?



Spot on. Badenoch (and Sunak) are important signifiers of a particular form of the political commodification of race underway on the right.

I don’t doubt there will be some Tory members who won’t vote for Sunak because of his colour, but there will be others who will _precisely _because of it. One of the most important sub narratives of the contest has been how diverse the contest shows that the the Tories are.

More significant is the now clearly visible  construction of a process to highlight and capture a subset with BAME communities. This takes two forms. Firstly, the suggestion that within that community there are ‘proper conservatives’ who embody aspiration, business and are the ideation of meritocratic Britain. Like Trump, the aim is to appeal to a particular group of potential voters from minority communities. Like Trump, the conservatives have noted a significantly large community where this approach is likely to be fruitful. Black leaders are an important prerequisite in broadening out the appeal to potential new layers of Tory support.

Second, like the identity obsessed liberal left there are those on the insurgent right who see agency in engagement with the idiotic and never ending war around critical race theory.
Badenoch in particular is an important figure (visibly and politically) in the fight as her campaign made plain.

Those characterising the Tories as racists are missing an important change in approach that uses individual stories and leaders to dismiss the structural forms of racism and which seeks to gain political advantage and support via the increasing class divides (which have always existed) within diverse and complex groups.


----------



## Fuzzy (Jul 23, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Then why was kemi badenoch, a women of Nigerian heritage, the most popular candidate with the tory membership?


I said in my view. can't Speak for the members if the tory party.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 23, 2022)

Fuzzy said:


> I said in my view. can't Speak for the members if the tory party.



The point is that Sunak's unpopularity with the membership is not necessarily to do with his ethnic background - although that's in there as well. If he was using that background to actively attack liberal ideas on identity and anti racism (as badenoch does) it would be an asset. With sunak his vast wealth, economic orthodoxy, and his refusal to promise unicorns (a la truss) combine with his "not one of us" /"citizen of nowhere" ethnic background to put off the members. But its not as simple as they wont vote for him because of race


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 23, 2022)

Have we had this yet, where anyone abroad, British citizen or not, can join the Tory party for £25 and vote for the leader? Conservatives Abroad, it's called and I'm not sure I should link to it so here's a tweet instead.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Have we had this yet, where anyone abroad, British citizen or not, can join the Tory party for £25 and vote for the leader? Conservatives Abroad, it's called and I'm not sure I should link to it so here's a tweet instead.




It’s not really a big deal. To be an overseas member you have to have previously been on the electoral roll in the UK and they verify your previous UK address. It’s not like thousands of random Russians can just sign up. Plus no one can vote for the leader this time around who wasn’t already a member before the thing kicked off.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> It’s not really a big deal. To be an overseas member you have to have previously been on the electoral roll in the UK and they verify your previous UK address. It’s not like thousands of random Russians can just sign up. Plus no one can vote for the leader this time around who wasn’t already a member before the thing kicked off.


Is it? How do they check? Comments on that thread suggest people have tried using false details and it's really easy to join. I realise there's a three month cut-off for eligibility to vote this time round so any damage will have already been done, but it's a shabby way of carrying on.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 23, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Is it? How do they check? Comments on that thread suggest people have tried using false details and it's really easy to join. I realise there's a three month cut-off for eligibility to vote this time round so any damage will have already been done, but it's a shabby way of carrying on.


I mean there are 200k members so a few random extra people signing up won't make much difference


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Comments on that thread suggest people have tried using false details and it's really easy to join.



No, they suggest people have successfully submitted their details. I doubt anyone will post on the thread in a month's time when they've been rejected.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> It’s not really a big deal. To be an overseas member you have to have previously been on the electoral roll in the UK and they verify your previous UK address. It’s not like thousands of random Russians can just sign up. Plus no one can vote for the leader this time around who wasn’t already a member before the thing kicked off.



That's not what it says on their website.



> There are many Conservatives Abroad local groups all over the world. They are friendly, welcoming circles that do more than discuss politics. Many of our members see their local Conservatives Abroad group as a social network or extended family. Membership of Conservatives Abroad is open to all who live abroad and pledge support for the UK Conservative Party. *You do not have to be a voter or a UK citizen.*





> Membership of Conservatives Abroad is administered by the Cities of London & Westminster Conservative Association (CLWCA). By joining CLWCA as an overseas member, you become a member of the Conservative Party and of Conservatives Abroad. You are entitled to all the benefits of party membership, including participation in the Conservative Policy Forum, attendance at party conferences *and a vote in the election of the party leader.*



Not that I think it's a big deal.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> That's not what it says on their website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That says something different. You need to have been a previous UK resident and eligible to vote.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 23, 2022)

What possible benefit would it serve the Conservative Party to have a way for entryists to join from all over the planet to choose their leader?  They don’t want that any more than you do.  It’s transparently obvious that it’s a possible risk and it’s obvious that they would need a way to mitigate and control this risk.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> That says something different. *You need to have been a previous UK resident and eligible to vote.*



Well, that's what it says on their website, so what's the source for the BiB?


----------



## weltweit (Jul 23, 2022)

Liz Truss, really?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

They probably didn't put in on their website because there wasn't a need to as it didn't go viral on Twitter yet. I expect they will update it in due course.


----------



## contadino (Jul 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> That says something different. You need to have been a previous UK resident and eligible to vote.


We have a shoddy democracy. Whether you define that by being governed by someone elected by 200,000 gammons that gather in golf club bars, or free for all lobbying, FPTP,  an unelected upper house, uncontrolled party funding, or one of dozens of other corrupt mechanisms. Nobody who can fix it wants to do so.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

contadino said:


> We have a shoddy democracy. Whether you define that by being governed by someone elected by 200,000 gammons that gather in golf club bars, or free for all lobbying, FPTP,  an unelected upper house, uncontrolled party funding, or one of dozens of other corrupt mechanisms. Nobody who can fix it wants to do so.



How do you think parties should choose their leader? Or more broadly, what system of democracy wouldn't have such flaws?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> They probably didn't put in on their website because there wasn't a need to as it didn't go viral on Twitter yet. I expect they will update it in due course.



But the site clearly states '*You do not have to be a voter or a UK citizen'*, and you're saying the opposite, so surely you must have a source, or did you just make it?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> But the site clearly states '*You do not have to be a voter or a UK citizen'*, and you're saying the opposite, so surely you must have a source, or did you just make it?



No, that statement in bold accords with what I said, that you need to have *previously* been a UK resident and eligible to vote here. My source is a Tory party member.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> No, that statement in bold accords with what I said, that you need to have *previously* been a UK resident and eligible to vote here. My source is a Tory party member.


Are you talking about voting in the GE or voting in the Tory party leadership? We are talking here about the latter.


----------



## contadino (Jul 23, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> But the site clearly states '*You do not have to be a voter or a UK citizen'*, and you're saying the opposite, so surely you must have a source, or did you just make it?


Isn't party subscription a political donation? If so it'd be covered by this:





__





						Who can you accept donations and loans from?
					






					www.electoralcommission.org.uk
				




 A permissible source is:

an individual registered on a UK electoral register, including overseas electors and those leaving bequests


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Are you talking about voting in the GE or voting in the Tory party leadership? We are talking here about the latter.



Why would I be talking about GE voting?  I think what I've said on the matter is clear


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Why would I be talking about GE voting?  I think what I've said on the matter is clear


What you've said is clear but unsubstantiated so I wondered if wires were crossed. 

ETA from your source, I mean


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

contadino said:


> Isn't party subscription a political donation? If so it'd be covered by this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's a £500 donation limit for those not on the electoral register, so it's not relevant to party membership.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> What you've said is clear but unsubstantiated so I wondered if wires were crossed.



Well I can't substantiate it for you. Perhaps you should phone CCHQ and inquire, or wait for some hack to write it up for the Guardian or whatever.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jul 23, 2022)

The Chancellor's secret libel letters
					

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Nadhim Zahawi, has been sending threatening letters, drafted by expensive lawyers, to people investigating his tax affairs. The letters are designed to intimidate, and say they are confidential and can't be published. One was sent to me. I am publishing it. Upda




					www.taxpolicy.org.uk


----------



## kabbes (Jul 23, 2022)

In the absence of hard evidence, I’m more inclined to believe that those drawing up the vote on leadership aren’t making elementary school level errors about eligibility.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 23, 2022)

The contest will be remembered as the one where everyone competed to do the best Margaret Thatcher impression and Liz Truss won.


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 23, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> The contest will be remembered as the one where everyone competed to do the best Margaret Thatcher impression and Liz Truss won.



Liz Truss isn't even South West Norfolk's top Margaret Thatcher tribute act.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 23, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> The contest will be remembered as the one where everyone competed to do the best Margaret Thatcher impression and Liz Truss won.



my option at this stage would be to issue the 2 remaining candidates with the below







and then let them fight to the death to pick the next leader


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 23, 2022)

I've decided I'm not all that interested in predicting who might end up being the Tory leader tbh.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> How do you think parties should choose their leader? Or more broadly, what system of democracy wouldn't have such flaws?


A system with some form of PR would have far fewer of these flaws. Given that no single party ever gets close to 50% of the vote in the UK, such a system would ensure that all governments are coalitions of some kind. You wouldn't have this situation under such circumstances as the coalition partners could pull the plug and trigger a general election.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 23, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> A system with some form of PR would have far fewer of these flaws. Given that no single party ever gets close to 50% of the vote in the UK, such a system would ensure that all governments are coalitions of some kind. You wouldn't have this situation under such circumstances as the coalition partners could pull the plug and trigger a general election.



I’m sure I could create a list of flaws for e.g. the system in Germany that is just as long. Many PR countries often take months and sometimes years to form a government following a general election for example.


----------



## bimble (Jul 23, 2022)

I just went to the land of the Swiss and for all it’s many ridiculousnesses, the fact that nobody knows the name of any of the 7 people who together approximate the role of PM seems pretty good to me atm.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 23, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Jul 23, 2022)

I couldn't get beyond the apples to India point. Anyone for a crisp Granny Singh?


----------



## wow (Jul 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> bully for you


You’re OK with bullying?


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> You’re OK with bullying?


Did you come here looking for an argument? 

BTW, I'm not OK with bullying but haven't seen it on this thread. If (which I somehow doubt) you're a very sensitive person this might not be the most hospitable forum.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 24, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Did you come here looking for an argument?


I've told you once 

No, you didn't

Yes, I did


----------



## wow (Jul 24, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Did you come here looking for an argument?
> 
> BTW, I'm not OK with bullying but haven't seen it on this thread. If (which I somehow doubt) you're a very sensitive person this might not be the most hospitable forum.


Cat Fan. Look it up

I don’t know him/her but they got roasted on here for their opinion.

I’m not sensitive. If your idea of sensitive is “oh you don’t understand the vibe here”, then respectfully…screw you, because you’re defending grown men intimidating women.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 24, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> And to balance it up
> View attachment 333907


That is not a truss and that is not the definition of a truss. The joke is not valid.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> Cat Fan. Look it up
> 
> I don’t know him/her but they got roasted on here for their opinion.
> 
> I’m not sensitive. If your idea of sensitive is “oh you don’t understand the vibe here”, then respectfully…screw you, because you’re defending grown men intimidating women.


Eh? I had a quick look and don't know what you're talking about. Can you point to a particular conversation?   
Also, FWIW, had no idea Cat Fan was a woman.

This whole exchange is baffling.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 24, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I've told you once
> 
> No, you didn't
> 
> Yes, I did


Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?


----------



## wow (Jul 24, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Eh? I had a quick look and don't know what you're talking about. Can you point to a particular conversation?
> Also, FWIW, had no idea Cat Fan was a woman.
> 
> This whole exchange is baffling.


Look it up yourself. I’m just telling you the individuals involved are bully’s. I think you probably know that yourself, but because they’re forum royalty no-one complains. I don’t know or care who they are, so I’m very happy to call them what they are. 



teqniq said:


> Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?



Don’t give me that you snotty faced heap of parrot droppings.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 24, 2022)

do you know Cat Fan personally wow 


white knighting it atm


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> Look it up yourself. I’m just telling you the individuals involved are bully’s. I think you probably know that yourself, but because they’re forum royalty no-one complains. I don’t know or care who they are, so I’m very happy to call them what they are.
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t give me that you snotty faced heap of parrot droppings.


Did you not read my post? I couldn't find the bullying you're complaining about. 
There is a Report button if you see something inappropriate.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 24, 2022)

Anyway, welcome to urban, New Member.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> Look it up yourself. I’m just telling you the individuals involved are bully’s. I think you probably know that yourself, but because they’re forum royalty no-one complains. I don’t know or care who they are, so I’m very happy to call them what they are.
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t give me that you snotty faced heap of parrot droppings.


Ah, so you are a returning banned poster

What a surprise


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 24, 2022)

Guys, you're now bullying someone else. 

I think the sensitive ones are the ones who got angry at me for daring to express opinions and then started with personal attacks.

I don't think realistically the people involved will ever change their behaviour though and this is the internet so I've seen a lot worse


----------



## chainsawjob (Jul 24, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Jul 24, 2022)

“Forum royalty”? 
Looks like someone’s pitching to be the forum groom of the stool.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> You’re OK with bullying?


I don't know, am I?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Guys, you're now bullying someone else.
> 
> I think the sensitive ones are the ones who got angry at me for daring to express opinions and then started with personal attacks.
> 
> I don't think realistically the people involved will ever change their behaviour though and this is the internet so I've seen a lot worse


Really wouldn't be rallying around that particular poster


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Ah, so you are a returning banned poster
> 
> What a surprise


I thought wow must be William of walworth's sock puppet but they don't have William's easy charm, good sense or gsoh


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 24, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> do you know Cat Fan personally wow
> 
> 
> white knighting it atm


No they don't.

I suffer from anxiety and normally stay away from social media precisely for that reason.

My experience on this thread has been that I've been picked on for my political beliefs. Ok, fair enough it's a politics thread, but I was genuinely upset by some of the comments and I thought they were uncalled for.

Again I don't expect the people involved will care because they're basically trolls hiding behind anonymity. And now they'll double down on it by calling me out for being a snowflake or not having a sense of humour or whatever. I know how this goes.   

I was prepared to drop it but now feeling angry again because you're picking on someone else for the crime of calling you out on your behaviour.

You know who you are


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I thought wow must be William of walworth's sock puppet but they don't have William's east charm, good sense or gsoh


Or abundant use of smilies  

More later


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 24, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Really wouldn't be rallying around that particular poster


Are you uncomfortable for being called out on being a bully?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Are you uncomfortable for being called out on being a bully?



No, because there is no bullying.

It's pure trolling from a returning banned poster.

It's the same every time, they always give themselves away by getting stuck in.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Guys, you're now bullying someone else.
> 
> I think the sensitive ones are the ones who got angry at me for daring to express opinions and then started with personal attacks.
> 
> I don't think realistically the people involved will ever change their behaviour though and this is the internet so I've seen a lot worse


I think you're expecting a pass because you think opinions are sacred. They're not, not if they're built on sand.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I think you're expecting a pass because you think opinions are sacred. They're not, not if they're built on sand.


I'm very happy to have a debate, I just don't appreciate people telling me I'm scum or a scab or whatever 

Anyway don't worry you won't be seeing me again on this forum


----------



## Supine (Jul 24, 2022)

Fwiw i thought there was some bullying behaviour towards you. Don’t go, you seemed to hold your own ok.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat Fan  How is this reply to you bullying?



krtek a houby said:


> Admitting you can learn from others is a good start.


And then this troll steps in


wow said:


> That’s bully language. It might be acceptable in this forum, but it’s not outside. Ok?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I'm very happy to have a debate, I just don't appreciate people telling me I'm scum or a scab or whatever
> 
> Anyway don't worry you won't be seeing me again on this forum



Don't recall calling you either, tbh

Did think that voting Green is maintaining the liberal status quo... look, once voted for them also, in good faith...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I'm very happy to have a debate, I just don't appreciate people telling me I'm scum or a scab or whatever
> 
> Anyway don't worry you won't be seeing me again on this forum


I'm not really seeing where anyone called you scab or scum on this thread.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> forum royalty


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 24, 2022)

Supine said:


> Fwiw i thought there was some bullying behaviour towards you. Don’t go, you seemed to hold your own ok.


Thanks mate


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> We can all learn from each other if we keep an open mind and try to listen.
> 
> I don't appreciate your tone though.
> 
> Next time you feel like making an angry post attacking someone I suggest take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a bit instead. This isn't the right place for it.





krtek a houby said:


> Admitting you can learn from others is a good start.


 See your reply to this self's simple statement

There was no "tone", "attack" or "angry post" from this poster.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 24, 2022)

existentialist said:


>


Your highness (_bows, walking backwards_)


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> Thanks mate


Supine is urban's Gregg Wallace off masterchef, he thinks his opinion is important but everyone knows it carries scant weight


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 24, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> See your reply to this self's simple statement
> 
> There was no "tone", "attack" or "angry post" from this poster.


It was highly condescending of you tbh so I did take offence.

Classic bully behaviour is to deny that bullying took place.


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 24, 2022)

Anyway don't know why I'm bothering going to log off for a while now. Could be a week could be forever. Going to spend time in the real world with my son, who needs all my love and attention right now.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> It was highly condescending of you tbh so I did take offence.
> 
> Classic bully behaviour is to deny that bullying took place.


It was simple advice and then you made up stuff about "attacks" and "angry posts".

If you feel you were condescended to, fair enough. It's not intended.

But lying about what was said is piss poor behaviour.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 24, 2022)

I can't help wondering whether that poster "wow" is sitting back now, thinking "heheh, my work here is done".


----------



## bimble (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> grown men intimidating women.


Women, famously assembled from prefabricated parts and not grown.


----------



## JimW (Jul 24, 2022)

There is no forum royalty; they all died in a cellar and we have a forum politburo now.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I'm not really seeing where anyone called you scab or scum on this thread.


Have checked, the party they vote for was accused of using scab labour but nowhere was the poster called scab. 

As for scum, that was aimed at the Tories. Again, the poster in question was not called scum.

The plot thickens and predictably unravels.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 24, 2022)

JimW said:


> There is no forum royalty; they all died in a cellar and we have a forum politburo now.


I have a feeling that Urban would have taken a rather more proactive approach to the existence of "forum royalty". Axes would probably have been involved, _pour encourager les autres_.


----------



## JimW (Jul 24, 2022)

existentialist said:


> I have a feeling that Urban would have taken a rather more proactive approach to the existence of "forum royalty". Axes would probably have been involved, _pour encourager les autres_.


Though of course we did keep the former Emperor of Knobbing and Sobbing alive and gave him a job in the Palace Museum.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 24, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Have checked, the party they vote for was accused of using scab labour but nowhere was the poster called scab.
> 
> As for scum, that was aimed at the Tories. Again, the poster in question was not called scum.
> 
> The plot thickens and predictably unravels.


It’s just another example of a poster struggling with finding out that their political beliefs aren’t as “nice” as they had assumed.  An attack on their belief (eg “the Green Party can be an agent of capital”, or “the Labour Party are not left wing”) is thereby interpreted as an attack on their person, since it is, in effect, a suggestion that they also are not “nice”. Psychological defences then kick in to protect their psyche from this cognitive dissonance. In this case, the resulting self-hate is projected outwards to the “attacking” party. In a word, they are butthurt.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 24, 2022)

kabbes said:


> It’s just another example of a poster struggling with finding out that their political beliefs aren’t as “nice” as they had assumed.  The attack on their belief (eg that the Green Party can be an agent of capital, or that the Labour Party are not left wing) is thereby interpreted as an attack on their person, since it is, in effect, a suggestion that they also are not “nice”. Psychological defences then kick in to protect their psyche from this cognitive dissonance. In this case, the resulting self-hate is projected outwards to the “attacking” party. In a word, they are butthurt.


Yep, loads of wanker cunts in the GP


----------



## maomao (Jul 24, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yep, loads of wanker cunts in the GP


It's mostly old people and mums with babies whenever I've been.


----------



## Flavour (Jul 24, 2022)

Anyway back on topic I really hope Liz truss wins and gets immediately stuck in with insulting putin and revealing classified information during speeches like how often the the trident submarines pass through the Baltic Sea


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 24, 2022)




----------



## andysays (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> Look it up yourself. I’m just telling you the individuals involved are bully’s. I think you probably know that yourself, but because they’re forum royalty no-one complains. I don’t know or care who they are, so I’m very happy to call them what they are...



We don't have royalty here, mate, we're an anarcho-syndicalist commune


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> It's mostly old people and mums with babies whenever I've been.


If you go to a GP meeting and nobody else looks like a wanker cunt it probably means it's you


----------



## Anju (Jul 24, 2022)

Not directly to do with the leadership vote but a nice demonstration of anti Tory sentiment.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 24, 2022)

Anju said:


> Not directly to do with the leadership vote but a nice demonstration of anti Tory sentiment.



Heartwarming


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 24, 2022)




----------



## agricola (Jul 24, 2022)

Don't know if anyone has been bored enough to do this, but the comments under a lot of the pro-Truss articles in the Mail do suggest she might not be as popular amongst the "grassroots" as claimed.


----------



## JimW (Jul 24, 2022)

agricola said:


> Don't know if anyone has been bored enough to do this, but the comments under a lot of the pro-Truss articles in the Mail do suggest she might not be as popular amongst the "grassroots" as claimed.


Russian bot farms running scared of her iron resolve?


----------



## A380 (Jul 24, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> How do you think parties should choose their leader? Or more broadly, what system of democracy wouldn't have such flaws?


----------



## agricola (Jul 24, 2022)

JimW said:


> Russian bot farms running scared of her iron resolve?



Probably not, the "most popular" posts all seem to be long-established contributors.  It also helps that what is being put out is manifestly absurd, eg:



> ‘There were 364 economists that objected to Mrs Thatcher’s plan, and what we are doing at the moment, the economic policy at the moment is not delivering the economic growth we need, and what people voted for across this country in 2016 when they voted Brexit and in 2019 when they voted for Boris, is they voted for change, they voted for us to do things differently, they wanted to see more enterprise, more opportunities.
> 
> ‘People who voted Conservative for the first time in places like Teesside or West Yorkshire or across the North of England, they were voting for something different, not the same policy that had delivered low growth for 20 years.’


----------



## maomao (Jul 24, 2022)

SpineyNorman said:


> If you go to a GP meeting and nobody else looks like a wanker cunt it probably means it's you


I was trying to pun on GP as in doctors but it didn't work.


----------



## stavros (Jul 24, 2022)

agricola said:


> Don't know if anyone has been bored enough to do this, but the comments under a lot of the pro-Truss articles in the Mail do suggest she might not be as popular amongst the "grassroots" as claimed.


Do Tory members, rather than voters, read the Mail? The Telegraph, The Times and perhaps the FT seem more likely.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 24, 2022)

I think you’ve got that the wrong way round


----------



## Supine (Jul 24, 2022)

Yes, Prime Minister covered who reads the papers


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 24, 2022)

More of a Monday through to Sunday for me.


----------



## wow (Jul 24, 2022)

existentialist said:


> I can't help wondering whether that poster "wow" is sitting back now, thinking "heheh, my work here is done".


No. I’m catching up with the thread. It confirms I was right to call Cat Fan’s bullying out. 
Plus I understand the dynamic here a bit better as well.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> No. I’m catching up with the thread. It confirms I was right to call Cat Fan’s bullying out.
> Plus I understand the dynamic here a bit better as well.


You're a liar


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> No. I’m catching up with the thread. It confirms I was right to call Cat Fan’s bullying out.
> Plus I understand the dynamic here a bit better as well.


I don't think cat fan was that much of a bully


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I don't think cat fan was that much of a bully


More of a bullshit merchant


----------



## wow (Jul 24, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You're a liar



Show me where. 



Pickman's model said:


> I don't think cat fan was that much of a bully



No. He/she/they admitted they felt bullied though. By you amongst others. I repeat my earlier question: are you OK with bullying?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> No. He/she/they admitted they felt bullied though. By you amongst others. I repeat my earlier question: are you OK with bullying?


Pls name the post you're referring to. E2a cat fan refers to me once in this thread and does not say what you say they said. As krtek a houby says you're a liar, tho you can redeem that reputation by apologising for your mistake here


----------



## wow (Jul 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Pls name the post you're referring to. E2a cat fan refers to me once in this thread and does not say what you say they said. As krtek a houby says you're a liar, tho you can redeem that reputation by apologising for your mistake here



No. Do your own research.

Cat Fan mentioned several times in this thread that they felt bullied and harassed from the replies they were getting. 

Cat Fan also said they have anxiety issues which might prevent them from standing up for themselves.

You were one of the contributors. 

Just apologise directly to Cat Fan and we can all move on.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> No. I’m catching up with the thread. It confirms I was right to call Cat Fan’s bullying out.
> Plus I understand the dynamic here a bit better as well.



12 days and as many post's

ooh sage of the internet explain the boards to us


----------



## wow (Jul 24, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> 12 days and as many post's
> 
> ooh sage of the internet explain the boards to us


I think you misunderstood my point


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 24, 2022)

Cat fan has not accused anyone directly by name of bullying

that was you.


the politics threads on here are not for everyone as you will get Challenged

General is fluffy as is  nobbing and sobs 

as for safe space if you want to throw your opinion in a thread with 80 pages already take the time to read it
it said in the forums rules after not being a dick


----------



## existentialist (Jul 24, 2022)

wow said:


> No. I’m catching up with the thread. It confirms I was right to call Cat Fan’s bullying out.
> Plus I understand the dynamic here a bit better as well.


Perhaps you do. But perhaps not as well as you think you do.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 25, 2022)

Sunak's fucked now.   
Start at 0.55.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 25, 2022)

wow please can you take this beef to feedback forum or something? This thread is for another car crash. Please.

I don't think I'm being offensive or a bully by asking you that.

I'm not board 'royalty', but I can afford a Twix occasionally.

Peace


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 25, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Sunak's fucked now.


----------



## wow (Jul 25, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> Cat fan has not accused anyone directly by name of bullying
> 
> that was you.
> 
> ...



Cat Fan told an entire community they felt bullied by certain members in this forum. 

You either support bullies or you don’t. 

If you do, then you’re one yourself, so screw you. 

If not, then show solidarity.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 25, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Perhaps you do. But perhaps not as well as you think you do.


Reminds me of spanner. Think he was fond of throwing ' bullying' around.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 25, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> View attachment 334343


Truss is getting compared to Mrs Slocombe on the Twitter   .


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 25, 2022)

wow said:


> Cat Fan told an entire community they felt bullied by certain members in this forum.
> 
> You either support bullies or you don’t.
> 
> ...



highlight the post




if not read the forums a bit more


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 25, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Truss is getting compared to Mrs Slocombe on the Twitter   .



larry is probably not amused


----------



## wow (Jul 25, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> highlight the post
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No. Like I told the other guy, do your own research. 

Cat Fan felt bullied and harassed by several members of this forum. The members involved know who they are. You might want to bat their corner, that’s up to you. If you do, then you’re as bad as them in my eyes.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 25, 2022)

wow said:


> No. Like I told the other guy, do your own research.


----------



## wow (Jul 25, 2022)

Ax^ said:


>


Don’t understand the reference, but that is an amazing windmill. 
I love Holland.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 25, 2022)

wow said:


> Don’t understand the reference, but that is an amazing windmill.
> I love Holland.


Tilting at windmills. Hth. 
They have them in the UK you know.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2022)

wow said:


> No. Like I told the other guy, do your own research.
> 
> Cat Fan felt bullied and harassed by several members of this forum. The members involved know who they are. You might want to bat their corner, that’s up to you. If you do, then you’re as bad as them in my eyes.


Cat Fan bullshitted about "attacks", "tones" and "angry posts" when this poster mentioned learning from others. 

You jumped in and yelled about bullying.

This is your m.o. from previous incarnations.

Cat Fan also claimed they were called "scum" and a "scab". This was proven to be bullshit as well.

Neither of ye are covering yourself in glory.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2022)

This tedious, vexatious poster needs to be given the heave-ho; they're spoiling a lively and topical thread.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 25, 2022)

Fucking yuk:


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2022)

wow said:


> No. Like I told the other guy, do your own research.


This is a silly thing to say, quite apart from the fact that, to many people here, "do your own research" sounds like the oft-repeated refrain of conspiraloons who expect - as you appear to be doing - to make unfounded claims and then insist that everyone else does the work of proving the claim.

It's a fairly universal rule of debate that if you're making a claim, it's on you to back it up. Otherwise, people will just ignore your claim. Over to you...


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Fucking yuk:



This lot probably think that they're being dead clever and entering new realms by continuing to double down on stupid ideas. The reality is that these realms are new, because even some of the more swivel-eyed idiots in the past realised that there's a point where "use a bigger hammer" stops working, and only makes you look a fool. Patel is discovering this on a fairly regular basis, as her increasingly hare-brained plans to stop small boats crossing the channel flounder (and founder) in the face of grim reality. Truss is quickly going to find out the same thing.


----------



## bimble (Jul 25, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Fucking yuk:



They’re both competing with each other for the fuck the immigrants vote and it’s depressing as hell. The reason is that they know Tory party members put ‘people coming here in small boats’ as their second highest issue of pressing concern, after cost of living, ranked out of 30-odd options. Pathetic all of it.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2022)

Yes, based upon their pitches to the selectorate, the candidates perception of tory members seems not far removed from my own.


----------



## bimble (Jul 25, 2022)

I’m ever more convinced that the vote any vote should be taken away from anyone above 50 years old and given to children instead.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> They’re both competing with each other for the fuck the immigrants vote and it’s depressing as hell. The reason is that they know Tory party members put ‘people coming here in small boats’ as their second highest issue of pressing concern, after cost of living, ranked out of 30-odd options. Pathetic all of it.



And of course if they're both saying the same shit, there's no brownie points in it for either of them anyway.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> I’m ever more convinced that the vote any vote should be taken away from anyone above 50 years old and given to children instead.


Er, couldn't we make the upper limit, say...59 years old?


----------



## bimble (Jul 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> And of course if they're both saying the same shit, there's no brownie points in it for either of them anyway.


He who performs anti immigrant rhetoric the most convincingly gets a point, I suppose, or that’s what they are hoping.


----------



## bimble (Jul 25, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Er, couldn't we make the upper limit, say...59 years old?


Nope you’re done sorry.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> And of course if they're both saying the same shit, there's no brownie points in it for either of them anyway.


That's Sunak's only game plan now; negate every pitch from the favourite and just hope that she is so obviously shite when under the scrutiny of campaigning that increasing numbers react to his 'electable competence'.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> Nope you’re done sorry.


Enough of your ageism! (not that I'd want to vote anyway  )


----------



## maomao (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> I’m ever more convinced that the vote any vote should be taken away from anyone above 50 years old and given to children instead.



I've started doing this already and am just waiting for the rest of you to catch up:


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Cat Fan bullshitted about "attacks", "tones" and "angry posts" when this poster mentioned learning from others.
> 
> You jumped in and yelled about bullying.
> 
> ...


They're covering themselves in something tho


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> And of course if they're both saying the same shit, there's no brownie points in it for either of them anyway.


Except the implicit brownie points of avoiding have your opponent point at you and say "He/she *wants* the country to be filled with smelly migrants"...


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 25, 2022)

eatmorecheese said:


> wow please can you take this beef to feedback forum or something? This thread is for another car crash. Please.
> 
> I don't think I'm being offensive or a bully by asking you that.
> 
> ...



Twix? Clearly to bourgeoisie for this forum.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 25, 2022)

wow said:


> Plus I understand the dynamic here a bit better as well.



In your 28 posts to  date you've changed your mind 3 times about who is going to win the leadership election, you've moaned that your - no doubt vitally important - link was subject to moderation and you've opined with some stridency on what you perceive to the flaws on this forum.

I'd say your claim to "understand the dynamics here" is something of a stretch.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> I’m ever more convinced that the vote any vote should be taken away from anyone above 50 years old and given to children instead.


There goes pension benefits


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> I’m ever more convinced that the vote any vote should be taken away from anyone above 50 years old and given to children instead.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

wow said:


> Plus I understand the dynamic here a bit better as well.


But you can't point to any actual evidence that cat fan named me bully, contrary to your claim.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 25, 2022)

maomao said:


> I've started doing this already and am just waiting for the rest of you to catch up:
> 
> 
> View attachment 334361


I too have engaged what I like to call "advisors" for use with the complicated process of engagement with democracy. Not sure that its entirely legal, but fuck it


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> I’m ever more convinced that the vote any vote should be taken away from anyone above 50 years old and given to children instead.


May as well give the decision making to Paul the Octopus


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jul 25, 2022)

why dont we just bully wow?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> I’m ever more convinced that the vote any vote should be taken away from anyone above 50 years old and given to children instead.


There speaks a woman who has never seen a teenage William Hague addressing tory party conference or a young Jacob Rees mogg opining about money


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> why dont we just bully wow?


It's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> May as well give the decision making to Paul the Octopus


Did they die or escape?


----------



## bimble (Jul 25, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> May as well give the decision making to Paul the Octopus


Paul would be fine, he'd do a better job than the great british public.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 25, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> why dont we just bully wow?



We let his words speak for themselves.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> Paul would be fine, he'd do a better job than the great british public.


It's really telling that your answer to people being given a choice between a shitty stick or a stick covered in vomit isn't to say let's have some nice sticks too but let's make children decide and not people over 50


----------



## bimble (Jul 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> It's really telling that your answer to people being given a shitty stick or a stick covered in vomit isn't to sat let's have some nice sticks but let's make children decide and not people over 50


Nice sticks with ice cream on would be great, but when the sticks are primarily competing for the votes of old people they just are shittier, as evidenced by this ridiculous election where they are both claiming they don't care about the climate and really want to send immigrants to Rwanda.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> Nice sticks with ice cream on would be great, but when the sticks are primarily competing for the votes of old people they just are shittier, as evidenced by this ridiculous election where they are both claiming they don't care about the climate and really want to send immigrants to Rwanda.


Any young people potentially eligible to vote in this election are unlikely to be British equivalents of greta thunberg and more likely to be junior versions of Hague and Rees mogg. But you didn't limit your proposal to this election but said all elections: and its at the elections where the winner of this contest will test public opinion thar there should be some nicer sticks. The answer isn't disenfranchise 40% of the population on some crude metric of age but to spread democracy far wider, not only in broadening participation to younger people but also extending it much further within the economy and society, giving people a proper 'right to the city' to use lefebvre's term, proper involvement in changes to and development of the environment in which people live and work. If more sticks were available at elections for mps and councillors, if business support and lobbying by the wealthy or media was banned or strictly curtailed, then Labour and the tories, and other parties, would need to work harder and be more inventive to win people's votes. I don't think the Tories could survive any competition in which they didn't have the support the preponderance of the national press.


----------



## JimW (Jul 25, 2022)

Even tongue-in-cheek anti-democracy is no-no-no politics, young bimble. Such thinking proceeds from and leads to all sorts of grievous errors by a commodius vicus of recirculation.


----------



## Lucy Fur (Jul 25, 2022)

.ETA fat finger phone post. Soz


----------



## kabbes (Jul 25, 2022)

Maybe the electorate for any given election should only be the people who _don’t_ live in the affected area.  Only non-British people vote in the British election, only non-US people vote in the US election and so on.  Interesting thought experiment as to what kind of world it would produce.


----------



## bimble (Jul 25, 2022)

I think Russia’s foreign minister recently walked off a stage somewhere saying that he felt there was no point speaking with Miss Truss. So he’d probably vote for her.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 25, 2022)

I'm in favour of age restrictions on voting. I think it should be limited to people born the exact time I was, and who also happen to have my name.

I am sure this is a plan we can all get behind.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2022)

brogdale said:


> That's Sunak's only game plan now; negate every pitch from the favourite and just hope that she is so obviously shite when under the scrutiny of campaigning that increasing numbers react to his 'electable competence'.



I love how 'have some actual ideas for sorting the country out' is not even an option worth considering.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 25, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm in favour of age restrictions on voting. I think it should be limited to people born the exact time I was, and who also happen to have my name.
> 
> I am sure this is a plan we can all get behind.


Morporkians are, however, in no doubt that Vetinari is firmly in charge of the city; the political system of Ankh-Morpork is described as "One Man, One Vote", in which Vetinari is the Man, and he has the Vote.
 -- Terry Pratchett


----------



## andysays (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> Paul would be fine, he'd do a better job than the great british public.


I'm curious what sort of job he'd do of drawing a spunking cock on a ballot paper, TBH


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 25, 2022)

JimW said:


> Even tongue-in-cheek anti-democracy is no-no-no politics, young bimble. Such thinking proceeds from and leads to all sorts of grievous errors by a commodius vicus of recirculation.



You are a person who managed the opening line of Finnegans Wake and I claim my 40 Yuan.


----------



## maomao (Jul 25, 2022)

andysays said:


> I'm curious what sort of job he'd do of drawing a spunking cock on a ballot paper, TBH


Spiecesist. He would draw a spermatophore depositing hectocotylus.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jul 25, 2022)

I mean reading through the beef its really apparent what is going on and whom is desperate for oxygen.
Truss has no brains and Sunak has no brains but lots of money.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 25, 2022)

Yes, fight with each other more. This is what I like to see.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 25, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Yes, fight with each other more. This is what I like to see.



She's off writing more shite books if sunak gets in


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 25, 2022)

wow said:


> Look it up yourself. I’m just telling you the individuals involved are bully’s. I think you probably know that yourself, but because they’re forum royalty no-one complains. I don’t know or care who they are, so I’m very happy to call them what they are.
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t give me that you snotty faced heap of parrot droppings.



Bullies what?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Bullies what?


bully's what is the the question you should be asking


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Yes, fight with each other more. This is what I like to see.



i hope truss is wearing more than just earrings


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> I’m ever more convinced that the vote any vote should be taken away from anyone above 50 years old and given to children instead.


Double my pension and I will be happy to lose the right to vote. My vote(s) go to Labour BTW.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> bully's what is the the question you should be asking



AFAIK you may be right. CBA TBH.


----------



## Smangus (Jul 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Double my pension and I will be happy to lose the right to vote. My vote(s) go to Labour BTW.



 

Shit, just saw the flying oinker....


----------



## Voley (Jul 25, 2022)

Bloody hell. Just seen some polls. Are we really going to have Liz Truss as PM? Dunno whether to laugh or cry tbh.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

Voley said:


> Bloody hell. Just seen some polls. Are we really going to have Liz Truss as PM? Dunno whether to laugh or cry tbh.


I have a friend in America who has timed his visits since 2015 to coincide with the ejection of Cameron, may, and Johnson. I've told him I'll pay his air fare if he comes back in October.


----------



## Sue (Jul 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I have a friend in America who has timed his visits since 2015 to coincide with the ejection of Cameron, may, and Johnson. I've told him I'll pay his air fare if he comes back in October.


Hell, we'd all chip in.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2022)

Voley said:


> Bloody hell. Just seen some polls. Are we really going to have Liz Truss as PM? Dunno whether to laugh or cry tbh.


It's the tories; I'm sure they can find you some alternative polls!


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 25, 2022)

Voley said:


> Bloody hell. Just seen some polls. Are we really going to have Liz Truss as PM? Dunno whether to laugh or cry tbh.


Bookies have Truss as favourite by a tiny amount.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 25, 2022)

Smangus said:


> Shit, just saw the flying oinker....



Meanwhile, in Hell...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 25, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm in favour of age restrictions on voting. I think it should be limited to people born the exact time I was, and who also happen to have my name.
> 
> I am sure this is a plan we can all get behind.


Fuck it why not? You son of a bitch, I'm in!


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 25, 2022)

Is there a bullshit slogan bingo card available for tonight's head to head Tory gore fest?


----------



## teqniq (Jul 25, 2022)

i have no idea but you might wish to avail yourself of a sick-bucket.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 25, 2022)

#redwall


----------



## Petcha (Jul 25, 2022)

Sunak's all over her in this debate but it won't make any difference I'm afraid


----------



## LDC (Jul 25, 2022)

Fuck them both, but Truss is totally out of her depth against Sunak.


----------



## belboid (Jul 25, 2022)

She sounds like she’s got a cold.  As well as no brain, obviously


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 25, 2022)




----------



## LDC (Jul 25, 2022)

Sunak does consistently interrupt and talk over her.


----------



## LDC (Jul 25, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




I genuinely thought they were cardboard cut-outs for a bit until one of them moved.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 25, 2022)

LDC said:


> Sunak does consistently interrupt and talk over her.



Yep. He'll be alienating female voters there. But she's so fucking useless. It's quite toe curling watching her against Sunak.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 25, 2022)

LDC said:


> I genuinely thought they were cardboard cut-outs for a bit until one of them moved.



Me too - "Fuck, it's alive! Kill the haunted cutout!"


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 25, 2022)




----------



## belboid (Jul 25, 2022)

“Freedom is a price worth paying” 

Surprisingly honest


----------



## ouirdeaux (Jul 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> It's wicked to mock the afflicted



I've now got an earworm of that to the tune of 'My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean'.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 25, 2022)

Any Public Service pointers to edited highlights would be appreciated  

Was thinking earlier that PMQs would likely be a lot more entertaining with Truss, not if Starmer's involved of course.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 25, 2022)

I'm actually starting to feel a little bit sorry for Liz. She's so so so far out of her depth against this guy. It's not just her policies that are fucked, she can't actually communicate like a human being. She also keeps calling Faisal Islam "Feisel". These are basic things she should have rehearsed.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 25, 2022)

Has she mentioned pork or cheese yet?


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 25, 2022)

What the fuck is this shit about_ earrings? _

ETA: Oh, right. Found out now. What a bunch of clowns.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 25, 2022)

LDC said:


> Sunak does consistently interrupt and talk over her.



I would if I were debating with Liz Truss. I’d loudly order a fucking pizza.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I'm actually starting to feel a little bit sorry for Liz. She's so so so far out of her depth against this guy. It's not just her policies that are fucked, she can't actually communicate like a human being. She also keeps calling Faisal Islam "Feisel". These are basic things she should have rehearsed.



She'll still win though. The gammons don't care about competence or even basic coherence, so long as the candidate is suitably cold and vicious.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> She'll still win though. The gammons don't care about competence or even basic coherence, so long as the candidate is suitably cold and vicious.


And dense


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> And dense



Yes I wonder if stupidity isn't a selling point. Your standard tory is not very bright after all, and tends to react with distrust and anger to those who have suspicious and inexplicable powers like stringing a sentence together, or basic empathy.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 25, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> And dense



Yes. She really does come across as not very smart.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> She'll still win though. The gammons don't care about competence or even basic coherence, so long as the candidate is suitably cold and vicious.


I think that she is genuinely attempting to offer members a new iteration of the tories' ideological determination to govern a consolidator state. Sunak represents the old order of using misplaced 'household budget'/balancing the books justifications for austerity/slashing the size of the state, whereas Truss appears not even to be bothering with that 'justification'; she promises the ideological purity to slash the state even if that means more public debt.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 25, 2022)

That was a gut punch for Truss not being able to say whether Johnson would be welcome in her cabinet.Sunak wiped the floor with her tbf


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I think that she is genuinely attempting to offer members a new iteration of the tories' ideological determination to govern a consolidator state. Sunak represents the old order of using misplaced 'household budget'/balancing the books justifications for austerity/slashing the size of the state, whereas Truss appears not even to be bothering with that 'justification'; she promises the ideological purity to slash the state even if that means more public debt.



There's no state left to slash. Hospitals and schools will start closing for lack of staff and resources within a year as it is.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> There's no state left to slash. Hospitals and schools will start closing for lack of staff and resources within a year as it is.


I fear the privatisations will gather pace under the new leader.


----------



## belboid (Jul 25, 2022)

Tory voters think truss won the debate, 47 to 38.  Fucking weirdos


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I fear the privatisations will gather pace under the new leader.


They've found the one politician who might make Johnson look by comparison statesmanlike


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> They've found the one politician who might make Johnson look by comparison statesmanlike


That's quite a feat, when you think about it

How do they do it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> That's quite a feat, when you think about it
> 
> How do they do it?


I wish I knew


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Jul 25, 2022)

Climate change. Neither one has got the faintest fucking idea. No apparent concept of the scale of the crisis. No solutions other than more of the same. Thank Christ we have a Labour leader who has all the answers. ( Joke )


----------



## Wilf (Jul 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> Tory voters think truss won the debate, 47 to 38.  Fucking weirdos


A lot can happen, all the usual qualifiers but... fucking hell, if they think she won _that_, she's home and dry.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 25, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> That was a gut punch for Truss not being able to say whether Johnson would be welcome in her cabinet.Sunak wiped the floor with her tbf


Kieth will be piping up soon to say he'd welcome both of them into his cabinet..


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2022)

Wilf said:


> A lot can happen, all the usual qualifiers but... fucking hell, if they think she won _that_, she's home and dry.


Sad thing is, she probably is and she probably thinks she is


----------



## two sheds (Jul 25, 2022)

"Truss and Sunak trade blows in acrimonious first TV debate"​
This is what we like to hear


----------



## wow (Jul 25, 2022)

brogdale said:


> This tedious, vexatious poster needs to be given the heave-ho; they're spoiling a lively and topical thread.


I’m sorry you feel that way, and I understand why. Is there a way you can mute or ignore my posts so the particular beef I currently have with these other folks doesn’t intrude on your enjoyment of this otherwise vibrant conversation?



krtek a houby said:


> Cat Fan bullshitted about "attacks", "tones" and "angry posts" when this poster mentioned learning from others.
> 
> You jumped in and yelled about bullying.
> 
> ...


“Bullshitted”
“Jumped in”
“Yelled”
“M.O.”
“Previous incarnations”
“Claimed”
“Proven”
“Bullshit”
“Neither of ye”

Yeah, I mean…it beats me why Cat Fan feels “attacked” by “tones” from “angry posts”…

Check your attitude.



existentialist said:


> This is a silly thing to say, quite apart from the fact that, to many people here, "do your own research" sounds like the oft-repeated refrain of conspiraloons who expect - as you appear to be doing - to make unfounded claims and then insist that everyone else does the work of proving the claim.
> 
> It's a fairly universal rule of debate that if you're making a claim, it's on you to back it up. Otherwise, people will just ignore your claim. Over to you...



Hi Existentialist.

As far as I can tell, this isn’t “debate club”.

My replies to this thread are solely questioning the language used by some members here against another member.

There is a very specific reason why I say “do your own research”, which I’m happy to share privately.

Otherwise, simply ignore my posts.

Have a nice evening either way.

wow


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> “Freedom is a price worth paying”
> 
> Surprisingly honest



I didnt watch tonights debate for very long so thats pretty much the only bit I saw that stuck in my mind. Truss is so shit at trying to use this sort of rhetoric and fucked that one up totally. And unlike many politicians when they mess up their words, she often doesnt even notice that what she said was all pear shaped, so offers no correction. Not that it seems to matter since nobody else involved in the proceedings seems interested in calling these fuckups out.


----------



## petee (Jul 25, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> I've now got an earworm of that to the tune of 'My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean'.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m sorry you feel that way, and I understand why. Is there a way you can mute or ignore my posts so the particular beef I currently have with these other folks doesn’t intrude on your enjoyment of this otherwise vibrant conversation?
> 
> 
> “Bullshitted”
> ...


Nice of you to take the time, but you're still a shit stirrer 

You've been proved a wrong 'un but by all means, carry on


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You've been proved a wrong 'un but by all means, carry on



I’m yet to see any proof against me.

Against you, though…



Cat Fan said:


> No they don't.
> 
> I suffer from anxiety and normally stay away from social media precisely for that reason.
> 
> ...





Cat Fan said:


> Are you uncomfortable for being called out on being a bully?





Cat Fan said:


> It was highly condescending of you tbh so I did take offence.
> 
> Classic bully behaviour is to deny that bullying took place.



You denying her feelings?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Nice of you to take the time, but you're still a shit stirrer
> 
> 
> I’m yet to see any proof against me.
> ...


No "proof", whatsoever.

Just a poster who's politics were called out, and then claimed all manner of falsehoods.

Try harder.


----------



## Smangus (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m yet to see any proof against me.
> 
> Against you, though…
> 
> ...



God you're boring, just fuck off.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> No "proof", whatsoever.
> 
> Just a poster who's politics were called out, and then claimed all manner of falsehoods.
> 
> Try harder.


Falsehoods?

List them.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

Am denying the poster's accusations which were found to be false, as shown upthread.

They felt hard done by, because the party they vote for aren't the good people they seem to think they are


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

Smangus said:


> God you're boring, just fuck off.


Just ignore me if you don’t want to see my posts, mate


----------



## Smangus (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Just ignore me if you don’t want to see my posts, mate


Might have to do that , you're on the verge of making me watch a Starmer speech in desperation.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Falsehoods?
> 
> List them.


Lol

Read the posts upthread, as in "do your own research" 

Honestly, you're not doing very well here.

Why bother?


----------



## Sue (Jul 26, 2022)

Smangus said:


> Might have to do that , you're on the verge of making me watch a Starmer speech in desperation.


Steady on.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Lol





krtek a houby said:


> Read the posts upthread, as in "do your own research"
> 
> Honestly, you're not doing very well here.
> 
> Why bother?



I’m doing better than you, pal. At least I’m not intimidating women


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

Sue said:


> Steady on.


It won’t come to that, Sue.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m doing better than you, pal. At least I’m not intimidating women


You're just spewing out bullshit and trolling urban

It's quite clear what you're up to


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

For the second or third time, wow 

Here's my alleged intimidation and your dubious intervention



krtek a houby said:


> Admitting you can learn from others is a good start.





wow said:


> That’s bully language. It might be acceptable in this forum, but it’s not outside. Ok?


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You're just spewing out bullshit and trolling urban
> 
> It's quite clear what you're up to


“Spewing”
“Bullshit”
“Trolling”
“Quite clear what your up to”

Mate, I’m new here. Maybe most people here like you, maybe some others don’t. But your attitude stinks.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> “Spewing”
> “Bullshit”
> “Trolling”
> “Quite clear what your up to”
> ...


You're not new here


----------



## Humberto (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You're not new here


Spanner?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Spanner?


Possibly

He gave himself away early in the game

The beef is strong with this one


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I suffer from anxiety and normally stay away from social media precisely for that reason.
> 
> My experience on this thread has been that I've been picked on for my political beliefs. Ok, fair enough it's a politics thread, but I was genuinely upset by some of the comments and I thought they were uncalled for.
> 
> ...





Cat Fan said:


> Are you uncomfortable for being called out on being a bully?





Cat Fan said:


> It was highly condescending of you tbh so I did take offence.
> 
> Classic bully behaviour is to deny that bullying took place.





Cat Fan said:


> Anyway don't know why I'm bothering going to log off for a while now. Could be a week could be forever. Going to spend time in the real world with my son, who needs all my love and attention right now.



She sounds harassed and picked on.



krtek a houby said:


> You're just spewing out bullshit and trolling urban
> 
> It's quite clear what you're up to



You sound called out and defensive.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> She sounds harassed and picked on.
> 
> 
> 
> You sound called out and defensive.


You sound redundant after being caught out

Taking issue with the greens isn't being bullied

In fact, your repeated accusations of bullying are classic bullying tactics

What brought you back to urban, bully boy?


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Possibly
> 
> He gave himself away early in the game
> 
> The beef is strong with this one


I’m new here. 

Are you saying other people have accused you of bullying here in the past?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m new here.
> 
> Are you saying other people have accused you of bullying here in the past?


Surely you remember


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You sound redundant after being caught out
> 
> Taking issue with the greens isn't being bullied
> 
> ...


Lol, you can’t bully me mate.

You should save that behaviour for the women on the forum like you always do. 

And then they’ll have people like me to tell you to fuck off.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Lol, you can’t bully me mate.
> 
> You should save that behaviour for the women on the forum like you always do.
> 
> And then they’ll have people like me to tell you to fuck off.


 What brought you back to urban, out of curiosity?


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Surely you remember


No


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

Beef, bullying and gaslighting, reckons


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> No



Come on, Dan

You can do better


----------



## petee (Jul 26, 2022)

_According to a poll featured on Sky News this morning, the new favourite is… Boris Johnson._

ohhhhhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhh









						Poll reveals there's a new favourite for next Tory leader... and it's not who you might think
					

It comes as over ten thousand Conservative members have signed a petition demanding Boris Johnson is added to Tory leadership race ballot paper.




					www.thelondoneconomic.com


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 26, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Spanner?





Calamity1971 said:


> Reminds me of spanner. Think he was fond of throwing ' bullying' around.


Always shows up late at night as well. Spanner ™


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Always shows up late at night as well. Spanner ™


Yeah, the seeds sown here



Spanner said:


> I mean, wow.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You can do better


I’m new here.
You intimidated a member of this website.
I don’t give the smallest shit about your popularity, the pecking order, hierarchy etc on this website.
I’ll call you out for what you are.
Your behaviour to Cat Fan was unacceptable. She told you multiple times that your language was inappropriate, that she felt bullied, and yet you carried on.
Rather than being a proud fucking prick about it, why not just apologise and move on? Do it in private, whatever.
I hope no-one here will applaud you for belittling a woman, but I hope they’ll all applaud you for doing the right thing once you’ve done it.


----------



## Humberto (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m new here.
> You intimidated a member of this website.
> I don’t give the smallest shit about your popularity, the pecking order, hierarchy etc on this website.
> I’ll call you out for what you are.
> ...


Look there's Dan...


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m new here.
> You intimidated a member of this website.
> I don’t give the smallest shit about your popularity, the pecking order, hierarchy etc on this website.
> I’ll call you out for what you are.
> ...


DAN
DAN
DAN
DAN
DAN
DAN


----------



## hipipol (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m new here.
> You intimidated a member of this website.
> I don’t give the smallest shit about your popularity, the pecking order, hierarchy etc on this website.
> I’ll call you out for what you are.
> ...


I dont have clue who you are but would suggest you calm down a bit and stop slagging off yourself Battychops


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Look there's Dan...


Looking back over Spanner's short time with us, it's uncanny the similarities in posting "content"

The faux concern for women

The accusations of bullying

The disruption and trolling

It's like shooting fish in a barrel


(Sorry fish)


----------



## hipipol (Jul 26, 2022)

I had sought some reasoned chat about the fanciful nonsense spouted by the delusional idiots vying for control who seem only able to use internal Tory party fantasies as reference points. Instead, I am reminded why the blood on the sand vibe drove me away from the Polytricks threads in the first place. Bye again


----------



## Humberto (Jul 26, 2022)

That's us told. Just wait till we get told to just ignore the troll in the morning and that we aren't 'funny'.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Look there's Dan...





krtek a houby said:


> DAN
> DAN
> DAN
> DAN
> ...





hipipol said:


> I dont have clue who you are but would suggest you calm down a bit and stop slagging off yourself Battychops



Is this how you behave?

A woman gets abused in public, and you call me “battychops” for sticking up for her.

What kind of arsehole are you, hipipol? Don’t worry, that was rhetorical.

Meanwhile, the weasel perpetrator (krtek a houby ) shitposts in the background to demonstrate how untouchable he thinks is.

I’m still wondering why that picture of “bully” got deleted. Any idea, Pickman's model ? Because you liked it, maybe?

I grabbed a screenshot of me asking this question though, in case you try to erase this quote out of existence as well


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

Humberto said:


> That's us told. Just wait till we get told to just ignore the troll in the morning and that we aren't 'funny'.



It's an awful derail, tbh and really should bail out but just a wee bit of a reminder of Spanner sounding like our new pal... Note the constant charges of bullying and getting stuck into the same posters. He got served the last time round, guess it still hurts...



Spanner said:


> No





Spanner said:


> Don’t try to bully me mate. So? So where’s your buddy Pickmans?





Spanner said:


> You are a bully.
> Summing up someone’s worth in some shitty forum. For the gratification of your peers. Bully.
> And specifically to dehumanise them by calling them some trope name (I’m not called Dan).  You are a bully.
> You need to take a look at yourself, you aren’t as tolerant as you’d like to think.
> You are a bully.





Spanner said:


> Wow.





Spanner said:


> Does “troll” mean someone who challenges the loudest voices?





Spanner said:


> The “power” is established members calling people tools and accusing them of being trolls  😂



Never understand why they come back. Suppose it's a bit like the Tories power/ego trip...


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Is this how you behave?
> 
> A woman gets abused in public, and you call me “battychops” for sticking up for her.
> 
> ...


Shut it, Dan


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Lol, you can’t bully me mate.
> 
> You should save that behaviour for the women on the forum like you always do.
> 
> And then they’ll have people like me to tell you to fuck off.



Yeah, you did this exact same kind of shit as Spanner.

Just admit it, Dan


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Yeah, you did this exact same kind of shit as Spanner.
> 
> Just admit it, Dan


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Is this how you behave?
> 
> A woman gets abused in public, and you call me “battychops” for sticking up for her.
> 
> ...





krtek a houby said:


> Shut it, Dan





krtek a houby said:


> Yeah, you did this exact same kind of shit as Spanner.
> 
> Just admit it, Dan


You bully women.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

That's twice you messed up the quote function

Go to bed, champion and sleep it off


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> You bully women.


You made similar claims as Spanner and how posters shouldn't use harsh language in case of offense

Sorry you feel bullied, Dan

Better luck in your next incarnation

Also, fuck Prince Philip


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> That's twice you messed up the quote function
> 
> Go to bed, champion and sleep it off


You bully women


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You made similar claims as Spanner and how posters shouldn't use harsh language in case of offense
> 
> Sorry you feel bullied, Dan
> 
> ...


You bully women


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> You bully women



Prince Philip was yer dad, Dan


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> You bully women



You interfere with dolphins


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You interfere with dolphins


No I don’t. But you bully women.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> No I don’t. But you bully women.



You pleasure albatrosses


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You pleasure albatrosses


No I don’t. You bully women. A women has told this forum she feels bullied by you.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> No I don’t. You bully women. A women has told this forum she feels bullied by you.


You heart Chris Pratt tweets


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You heart Chris Pratt tweets


What?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 26, 2022)

Oh fuck off you tiresome attention seeking shitbag


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 26, 2022)

Anyway. I used to be known as eeyore in a previous life due to my unerringly pessimistic take on things. I’m quite enjoying this race to the bottom in a twisted voyeuristic way. The Tory party are probably fucked for a decade with this cavalcade of cuntery and the spineless pensioner shitbags that make up their membership base. It’s going to be brutal and painful but let’s make the most of this parade and take a Karl Valentin perspective on it.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

Just please fucking ignore it krtek a houby you are creating pages and pages of this crap. This is a depressing thread anyway but don’t carry on making it worse please.


----------



## JimW (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> pages and pages of this crap


And yet still more edifying than a Liz Truss debate response.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 26, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Kieth will be piping up soon to say he'd welcome both of them into his cabinet..



The entire debate about the cost of living crisis has provoked an incredibly revealing response from the political class.

Starmer and both of the Tory leadership candidates have been reduced to utterly abstract promises of growth, in the future, at some point, maybe.

Neither Starmer or Sunak even offer a pretence that they would provide an actual, immediate plan to address worsening crisis of living standards. Truss does offer a solution: which is essentially Thatcher redux. At its simplest her plan promises to ‘tackle inflation’ via recession and tipping millions into energy poverty, food poverty, mass house repossession and mass unemployment as ‘a price worth paying’ for lowering inflation caused by corporate profits.

All three actively ignore the most pressing issue facing the country which is that 99% of workers are getting poorer and are poorer because of an ongoing and historically unprecedented transfer of wealth from us to the 1% which they are either powerless and/or unwilling to prevent.

Note that there isn’t and won’t be one word from any of them about long run levels of capitalist investment (cutting corporation tax will not even create a blip on this chart as even the OBR admits), poor productivity, a lack of international competitiveness and exports failing to keep up with imports. There won’t be a word because they are embedded deformities of the British economy, which began in 1973 and are intractable under the economic principles that guide all three and the political class and professional middle class around them and who advise them. So, the manufactured goods base in the accounts will continue to be less than 10% of the economy: the smallest in the G7 and across much of Europe. Almost everything that we buy – TVs, washing machines, mobile phones – is imported (and imported from outside of the EU) and has been for decades. Britain has not had a trade surplus for almost 50 years and our trade deficit has grown each year (arguably the decline has been sped up since the pandemic.

What we are living through now - for the first time in living memory for many in Britain - is  visible breakdown of a basic principle of capitalism as most people understand it. Unlike the 1980’s the crisis of capitalism is now reaching deep into a segment of the skilled working class and layers of the middle class: those who are in decent work and yet simply can’t pay their bills. As we learnt in the 1980’s this isn’t the ‘boom and bust cycle’ it’s the precursor to a permanent lowering of living standards and life chances for millions.

The leadership debate and the Labour response are otherworldly on the surface. Most people observe them as business as usual: out of touch politicians with nothing to say. But, in fact, it’s much worse than that….


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> exports failing to keep up with imports are embedded deformities of the British economy beginning in 1973.


Are you suggesting that had the UK not joined the EU we'd not have spent the last couple of generations importing more stuff than we make?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> Are you suggesting that had the UK not joined the EU we'd not have spent the last couple of generations importing more stuff than we make?


No


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> No


what happened in 1973 then ? (i missed it)


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Is this how you behave?
> 
> A woman gets abused in public, and you call me “battychops” for sticking up for her.
> 
> ...


I've quoted it in case you decide on waking to delete this great turd of a post


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> what happened in 1973 then ? (i missed it)



The miners had just won, in 1972, a historic pay rise and sown the seeds of the battle that would bring the Heath Government down a year later. At the same time, and noting the decline in corporate profit and reducing inequality between rich and poor, a small but influential group of capitalists on the right decided that the post war settlement was over as far as they were concerned and that the working class needed taking on. An oil and energy prices crisis in November (sound familiar?) would provide their jumping off point.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 26, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The miners had just won, in 1972, a historic pay rise and sown the seeds of the battle that would bring the Heath Government down a year later. At the same time, and noting the decline in corporate profit and reducing inequality between rich and poor, a small but influential group of capitalists on the right decided that the post war settlement was over as far as they were concerned and that the working class needed taking on. An oil and energy prices crisis in November (sound familiar?) would provide their jumping off point.




Asterix and the Neoliberalist Cabal


----------



## existentialist (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Falsehoods?
> 
> List them.


Whatever else you are doing, in relentlessly pursuing this off-topic beef you're increasing the likelihood of a ban.

So do carry on. In fact, double down on it.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Lol, you can’t bully me mate.
> 
> You should save that behaviour for the women on the forum like you always do.
> 
> And then they’ll have people like me to tell you to fuck off.


"like you always do". Strange thing for a n00b to be saying...


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

I just sat through a "highlight" of yesterday's shouting match, the bit where Sunak says it would be wrong to pass the bill for our spending during covid onto our grandchildren and Truss says that america japan etc have higher rates of debt than the UK so not to worry. 
Wondering whether that argument will actually matter to the people who get to choose out of these two and if it does whose side would they land on? 
They will most of them have grandchildren but i think they'll probably care more about their own tax bill for the next couple of years than any ideological purity of conservatism.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 26, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The miners had just won, in 1972, a historic pay rise and sown the seeds of the battle that would bring the Heath Government down a year later. At the same time, and noting the decline in corporate profit and reducing inequality between rich and poor, a small but influential group of capitalists on the right decided that the post war settlement was over as far as they were concerned and that the working class needed taking on. An oil and energy prices crisis in November (sound familiar?) would provide their jumping off point.


Agreed; though some historians of neoliberalism also cite '68 as a moment when increasingly globalised capital decided that the post-war settlement had failed and labour would never stop asking for more.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> I just sat through a "highlight" of yesterday's shouting match, the bit where Sunak says it would be wrong to pass the bill for our spending during covid onto our grandchildren and Truss says that america japan etc have higher rates of debt than the UK so not to worry.
> Wondering whether that argument will actually matter to the people who get to choose out of these two and if it does whose side would they land on?
> They will most of them have grandchildren but i think they'll probably care more about their own tax bill for the next couple of years than any ideological purity of conservatism.


Truss is literally offering them the chance to be their greedy, self-serving selves without worrying about the abstract complexities of macro-economic justification; an intoxicating brew for the vermin base.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?


----------



## maomao (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?


She's going to offset the inflationary pressures of tax cuts by putting interest rates up so everyone will have less money but the money will be going to banks instead of the state. Trebles all round.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

Sasaferrato ! Apart from an estranged great uncle who has dementia I think you’re the only person I’m personally aware of who may get to vote in the choosing of our next pm. 
Even if you don’t though who would you pick and why?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Agreed; though some historians of neoliberalism also cite '68 as a moment when increasingly globalised capital decided that the post-war settlement had failed and labour would never stop asking for more.



I don't dispute that for some on their side the moment of departure was earlier (or dispute that for some, like Enoch Powell there was never any buy in but more an understanding of the political actualities) but I'd argue the 1972 and 1973 was the point of _mobilization _


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?


Sunak's argument is that cutting taxes means that more money is in circulation which increases spending which fuels further price rises.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 26, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I don't dispute that for some on their side the moment of departure was earlier (or dispute that for some, like Enoch Powell there was never any buy in but more an understanding of the political actualities) but I'd argue the 1972 and 1973 was the point of _mobilization _


Yep. I feel the need to do some more reading around this fascinating period of history.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Sunak's argument is that cutting taxes means that more money is in circulation which increases spending which fuels further price rises.


He could achieve that by bumping up my pay to 2008-9 levels in real terms and saying that while he was pm public sector workers would get a triple lock just the same as pensioners.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yep. I feel the need to do some more reading around this fascinating period of history.


Edward heath made me angry Edward Heath Made Me Angry - AKUK the European home of AK Press and Distribution


----------



## brogdale (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?


Don't beat yourself up about this, neither does Truss understand this.
Her motivation here is to appeal to the gut instincts of the selectorate and deploy the only "feel-good" mechanism left to government in the face of neoliberal immiserisation of the workforce.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 26, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> He could achieve that by bumping up my pay to 2008-9 levels in real terms and saying that while he was pm public sector workers would get a triple lock just the same as pensioners.


This is anathema to Tory voters because the envy they accuse others of is pure projection. There _may_ be other, more economically sound reasons that aren't immediately apparent...


----------



## teqniq (Jul 26, 2022)

Hahaha:


----------



## brogdale (Jul 26, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> This is anathema to Tory voters because the envy they accuse others of is pure projection. There _may_ be other, more economically sound reasons that aren't immediately apparent...


The accelerated immiserisation of the public sector workforce is part of the multi-pronged attack to undermine, weaken and ultimately wither our public services to the point that privatisation is inevitable. The increasing job vacancies resulting from poor pay and conditions have a 'positive' feedback/cumulative effect on the conditions of those remaining and the subsequent drop-out rates and declining service standards drive more into private provision.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?


Nobody can know. The economy is way too chaotic for a simple line to be drawn between a tax cut and inflation. Even the direct impacts of a tax cut are tricky to see, let alone something so downstream as inflation. 

And what tax?  Corporation tax has a very different impact to VAT, which is very different to capital gains tax, which is very different to income tax. You can’t just say “tax”

Meanwhile, if anybody comes up with a reliable and accurate predictive model for inflation, a Nobel prize in economics is waiting for them.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 26, 2022)

I see some clown decided to set up a petition on the government's site.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?



No. It's the thatcherite idea that letting the proles have spending money is what causes inflation, rather than say every cunt putting their prices up. You might think the current situation of a fall in real-terms incomes preceding a massive inflation spike would be evidence that the thinking on this was outdated, but then if thatcherism could be damaged by something as trivial as overwhelming evidence that it doesn't fucking work it would have died out decades ago.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> This is anathema to Tory voters because the envy they accuse others of is pure projection. There _may_ be other, more economically sound reasons that aren't immediately apparent...


You can already see from cuts to the police that they don't investigate vast swathes of crime, mugging, rape, burglary, theft, more than paying lip service to. You'd have thought tory voters would be up in arms about that already. That's not a cut taxes and this will come back, that's a give them more money and not just in wages before the capacity returns. If there was the 2011 riots again this year I think the police would really struggle to respond on the streets or in the courts to the extent they did then. And I think the sentences in Bristol reflect in part the fear that wider disturbances might occur.

If wages don't rise the he librarians of the future will go and work in other sectors. I could have made a lot more money working in a commercial law firm, for instance, and tho the job might not have offered me some of the resources I enjoy now - I'm a library user too - I wouldn't be in the position I am now where from being comfy a few years back the mattress has become much thinner. My disposable income is lower than its been since 2009, when I first started working two jobs. I now have three. 

But my taxes aren't the problem, it's my wages. Even if they bump up the tax allowance level to cover all my wages that's just kicking the can down the road. Inflation will erode the value of my wages further and if inflation stays as it is now I'll have to start dropping things I work to do one by one. And I don't live extravagantly now.

It’s not all about me. There's millions of nurses and council workers and people in adult social care and fe colleges and universities all in the same boat as me. And we're part of the glue that holds society together. We can do without the Tories but we can't do without teachers and nurses and care workers and librarians


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Nobody can know. The economy is way too chaotic for a simple line to be drawn between a tax cut and inflation. Even the direct impacts of a tax cut are tricky to see, let alone something so downstream as inflation.
> 
> And what tax?  Corporation tax has a very different impact to VAT, which is very different to capital gains tax, which is very different to income tax. You can’t just say “tax”
> 
> Meanwhile, if anybody comes up with a reliable and accurate predictive model for inflation, a Nobel prize in economics is waiting for them.



I can't believe there's a Nobel prize for economics. Why not one for phrenology, or predicting the weather using chicken entrails?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I see some clown decided to set up a petition on the government's site.
> 
> View attachment 334524


He would be a more honest pm than sunak or truss


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 26, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Hahaha:




It's true you can put any old bollocks into it.



I seem to have added him to their mailing list too, opps.

If you want to waste a couple of minutes, the link is - https://conservativepost  .co.uk/borisballot/?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> But my taxes aren't the problem, it's my wages. Even if they bump up the tax allowance level to cover all my wages that's just kicking the can down the road. Inflation will erode the value of my wages further and if inflation stays as it is now I'll have to start dropping things I work to do one by one. And I don't live extravagantly now.
> 
> It’s not all about me. There's millions of nurses and council workers and people in adult social care and fe colleges and universities all in the same boat as me. And we're part of the glue that holds society together. We can do without the Tories but we can't do without teachers and nurses and care workers and librarians



In the last year I could have earned a maximum of about £25,000 as an early career teacher. 

Over the same period, the average house in the UK earned £36,000 just by sitting there. 

Which do you think got taxed more, me or the house?


----------



## maomao (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I can't believe there's a Nobel prize for economics. Why not one for phrenology, or predicting the weather using chicken entrails?


It's not one of the original Nobel prizes and only exists because a bank paid for it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I can't believe there's a Nobel prize for economics. Why not one for phrenology, or predicting the weather using chicken entrails?


It'd really rile editor. I'll email the Nobel people later. A Nobel prize for divination would be a great idea


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yep. I feel the need to do some more reading around this fascinating period of history.



Recommended: Manchester University Press - Reassessing 1970s Britain


----------



## teuchter (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> No. It's the thatcherite idea that letting the proles have spending money is what causes inflation, rather than say *every cunt putting their prices up*.



Do they just put their prices up because they feel like it? I didn't realise it was that simple.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I can't believe there's a Nobel prize for economics. Why not one for phrenology, or predicting the weather using chicken entrails?


There’s no institutional power keeping the edifice of phrenology afloat!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Do they just put their prices up because they feel like it? I didn't realise it was that simple.


There are many many things you don't realise


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Do they just put their prices up because they feel like it? I didn't realise it was that simple.


There are various theories about supply and demand.


> *Sahih/Authentic.* - [Ibn Maajah]
> During the time of the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him), prices of commodities increased, so the people asked him to fix the prices of the commodities for them. The Messenger of Allah (may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) said to them: “Indeed, Allah is the One who fixes prices, the Withholder, the Extender, and the Provider.” This means that Allah, the Almighty, is the One who causes the prices of things to decline and rise. He is also the One who reduces the provisions for whomever He wills, and extends the provisions for whomever He wills. In other words, anyone who attempts to fix the prices will be opposing and challenging Allah in what He wills, and will most probably deny people their rights of raising and lowering prices, which Allah has entrusted them with. Then he said: “Indeed, I wish to meet Allah while none of you will have any claim against me for an injustice regarding blood or property.” This is an indication that what prevented him from fixing the price was the fear that he would wrong them in their wealth, since fixing the prices of commodities involves a sort of disposing of them without the permission of their owners, and this is considered injustice. However, if the vendors – for example traders and the like – agreed to raise the prices of what they have out of selfishness, then the ruler would become entitled to determining a fair price for the goods in order to establish justice between the sellers and buyers. This also conforms to the general principle of bringing about benefits and eliminating evil. If no agreement happened between the traders, and the prices went up only due to the high demand and low supply without any deceit, then it would not be the ruler’s right to determine the prices. Rather, he should leave the citizens so that Allah provides for some through others. Thus, it is not permissible for the traders to raise the prices over what is customary, nor is fixing the prices permissible. This is the proper understanding and interpretation of the Hadīth











						Hadith: Indeed, Allah is the One who fixes prices, the Withholder, the Extender, and the Provider. Indeed, I wish to meet Allah while none of you will have any claim against me for an injustice regarding blood or property - Encyclopedia of Translated
					

Hadith: Indeed, Allah is the One who fixes prices, the Withholder, the Extender, and the Provider. Indeed, I wish to meet Allah while none of you will have any claim against me for an injustice regarding blood or property - Encyclopedia of Translated Prophetic Hadiths




					hadeethenc.com


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 26, 2022)

William of Walworth has got a bit more aggressive hasn't he?


----------



## prunus (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> No. It's the thatcherite idea that letting the proles have spending money is what causes inflation, rather than say every cunt putting their prices up. You might think the current situation of a fall in real-terms incomes preceding a massive inflation spike would be evidence that the thinking on this was outdated, but then if thatcherism could be damaged by something as trivial as overwhelming evidence that it doesn't fucking work it would have died out decades ago.



Demand-driven inflation (increased amounts of money chasing the same limited goods) is a real thing, and can be ameliorated to a certain extent by controlling the money supply (at least in theory - and it certainly seems to have worked in the real world at times). However inflation can also be supply-driven (which is what we seem to have now) - the same (limited) money chasing a reduced supply of goods. 

This latter situation can (again in theory anyway) also be controlled by reducing the money supply to match the reduction in goods supply - but doing this when the inflation is supply-driven is likely to (should) lead - quite obviously - to a massive reduction in living standards for (almost) everyone.  The tories don’t seem to be admitting to this bit of the plan…


----------



## donkyboy (Jul 26, 2022)

I did find RS constantly talking over Truss and the host a little off putting-watching as a neutral in the debate.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Do they just put their prices up because they feel like it? I didn't realise it was that simple.



No, they do it because they a) can get away with it and b) are cunts.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> No, they do it because they a) can get away with it and b) are cunts.


Does this also apply to people who can increase the price of their labour when demand is high, or competing supply is limited?


----------



## Wilf (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Does this also apply to people who can increase the price of their labour when demand is high, or competing supply is limited?


Oh...my... word.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Does this also apply to people who can increase the price of their labour when demand is high, or competing supply is limited?



No, because they're not capitalists.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> Sasaferrato ! Apart from an estranged great uncle who has dementia I think you’re the only person I’m personally aware of who may get to vote in the choosing of our next pm.
> Even if you don’t though who would you pick and why?



Sunak, because I think cutting taxes now is not the best way forward.

I don't know if you noticed the bumper Euromillions jackpot recently? £191m, except when it was actually won, it was £194m. The difference was the slide of the £ against the €, and reducing government revenue by tax cuts will exacerbate that slide, and not just against the €. As a country which imports a huge amount of its food, currency degradation would overwhelm any slight gain for the ordinary person engendered by cutting taxes.

None of the above in reality, I don't have a vote.


----------



## Smangus (Jul 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> There’s no institutional power keeping the keeping the edifice of phrenology afloat!


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 26, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Sunak, because I think cutting taxes now is not the best way forward.


Why do you think that? Genuine question I'm not having a dig. Even the Govt's own various advisors recommend putting taxes up and/or cutting services in order to balance the books.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 26, 2022)

People on here might not think that she's very bright but Truss embodies and more importantly is the person who a particular and insurgent brand of capitalism is currently coalescing around. 

Problem: workers are striking over below inflation pay awards and the cost of living. Solution: ban strikes:

Liz Truss pledges crackdown on unions but is accused of ‘Tory fantasy’


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 26, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Why do you think that? Genuine question I'm not having a dig. Even the Govt's own various advisors recommend putting taxes up and/or cutting services in order to balance the books.



Because more expensive food imports, brought on by currency 'slide' will hit those with the least the most. Tax decreases would not compensate the lowest paid for higher food costs.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 26, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Because more expensive food imports, brought on by currency 'slide' will hit those with the least the most. Tax decreases would not compensate the lowest paid for higher food costs.


Actually Sorry Sas I misread what you put, I thought you had written that you wanted tax cuts not were opposed to them.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 26, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Actually Sorry Sas I misread what you put, I thought you had written that you wanted tax cuts not were opposed to them.


 Not a problem.  

I'm not opposed per se, but now isn't the time.


----------



## stavros (Jul 26, 2022)

Was I the only one who heard Truss claim that she'd "stood up to Ukraine"?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 26, 2022)

More tax needed but targeted tax - and the targeted are not going to let this happen. Can’t let it eat into profiteering


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 26, 2022)

And show trials obvs


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 26, 2022)

Well this was unexpected


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> People on here might not think that she's very bright but Truss embodies and more importantly is the person who a particular and insurgent brand of capitalism is currently coalescing around.
> 
> Problem: workers are striking over below inflation pay awards and the cost of living. Solution: ban strikes:
> 
> Liz Truss pledges crackdown on unions but is accused of ‘Tory fantasy’


She seems to be attempting a sort of karaoke greatest hits of the glory days of thatcher sort of thing, crush the strikes cut taxes and let the free market heal the world. & wear pussybow blouses & shoulderpads just to drive the point home. 
Its' not anything to do with being bright but it might be quite canny, an appeal to the nostalgia for that era which is probably deeply felt amongst the relevant people.


----------



## LDC (Jul 26, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Well this was unexpected




Medical issue apparently. Looks like one of the camera/sound people collapsed of hatred. Or cringed themselves to death.


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 26, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Well this was unexpected



'Medical issue', apparently, and once the gerbil had gathered her wits (!) she went to help. 
Admittedly, it looks funny but probably wasn't.


----------



## elbows (Jul 26, 2022)

LDC said:


> Medical issue apparently. Looks like one of the camera/sound people collapsed of hatred. Or cringed themselves to death.


Its been said that it was the debate host, Kate E McCann, TalkTVs political editor, who fainted. She was originally supposed to be co-costing with Harry Cole but Covid had other ideas and took him out of the equation.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 26, 2022)




----------



## JimW (Jul 26, 2022)

Flaps in a crisis isn't a great look for PM contender. Side look to handler either.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 26, 2022)

Handled it about as well as most would tbf, seen worse reactions to crisis on the tube (and milled around like an idiot myself at times as well).


----------



## xenon (Jul 26, 2022)

Oh that what happened? I was *listening on radio. Just assumed the connection went down or something. 

*I mean it was on in the background as I was posting super vital stuff on here.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> She seems to be attempting a sort of karaoke greatest hits of the glory days of thatcher sort of thing, crush the strikes cut taxes and let the free market heal the world. & wear pussybow blouses & shoulderpads just to drive the point home.
> Its' not anything to do with being bright but it might be quite canny, an appeal to the nostalgia for that era which is probably deeply felt amongst the relevant people.


Around 13 million people voted Tory at the last election but there are only 200,000 Tory party members. She's appealing to just that narrow and almost certainly much narrower range of views. I wonder what percentage of the crazy ass shit she's currently spouting will survive if she does win and then has to appeal to a much broader group of voters whose alternatives won't be the little brown rich guy but Sir Kier the Indecisive and 'Honest' Ed.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Around 13 million people voted Tory at the last election but there are only 200,000 Tory party members. She's appealing to just that narrow and almost certainly much narrower range of views. I wonder what percentage of the crazy ass shit she's currently spouting will survive if she does win and then has to appeal to a much broader group of voters whose alternatives won't be the little brown rich guy but Sir Kier the Indecisive and 'Honest' Ed.


yep but like her mentor johnson, its just about saying what the current audience right now wants to hear.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 26, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



When you do your first Edinburgh and only your mates turn up.



She's definitely dead.


----------



## jakethesnake (Jul 26, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's true you can put any old bollocks into it.
> 
> View attachment 334527
> 
> ...


signed.... Hugh Janus


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jul 26, 2022)

BBC has this freeze frame of Truss on their frontpage ATM.
I can see some Munch photoshops appearing soon.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> No, because they're not capitalists.


Ok. So is inflation caused by people putting up their prices but only if the people putting up their prices are capitalists?


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

Economics is so much more interesting than people would like it to be.
Someone with an economics phd who i asked about Sunak's claim that tax cuts = inevitable inflation said this;
"either you can make a model that looks like reality, but it's so complicated that you can't learn anything from it, or you can make a model that's simple enough to learn from, but then it doesn't behave like reality".
I think mostly we choose simple, not caring about how it maps onto reality.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 26, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Well this was unexpected



That sound you can hear is Sunak’s wallet falling out of his pocket landing on the floor


----------



## agricola (Jul 26, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> BBC has this freeze frame of Truss on their frontpage ATM.
> I can see some Munch photoshops appearing soon.
> View attachment 334604









"BRIAN NO!"


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Ok. So is inflation caused by people putting up their prices but only if the people putting up their prices are capitalists?



Well workers don't generally get to dictate the price of their labour so yeah. 

Any other basic thinking you need help with, please don't hesitate to ask someone else.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> Economics is so much more interesting than people would like it to be.
> Someone with an economics phd who i asked about Sunak's claim that tax cuts = inevitable inflation said this;
> "either you can make a model that looks like reality, but it's so complicated that you can't learn anything from it, or you can make a model that's simple enough to learn from, but then it doesn't behave like reality".
> I think mostly we choose simple, not caring about how it maps onto reality.


So basically he has a PHD in a meaningless subject.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well workers don't generally get to dictate the price of their labour so yeah.


Workers get to raise the price of their labour in various circumstances.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> BBC has this freeze frame of Truss on their frontpage ATM.
> I can see some Munch photoshops appearing soon.
> View attachment 334604



First time she's actually looked like Thatcher. You can almost hear that deathly croak of a voice, although it'd have to be saying something mind-crushingly banal.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

emanymton said:


> So basically he has a PHD in a meaningless subject.


yep. if i could study a thing now it would be economics, so much more esoteric than say the kabalah (seriously i would).


----------



## emanymton (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Workers get to raise the price of their labour in various circumstances.


Like when they take collective action to reduce the level of exploration.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 26, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Like when they take collective action to reduce the level of exploration.


For example. Yes.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Workers get to raise the price of their labour in various circumstances.



But, aside from freelance management consultants and other people who don't count as workers because they don't do any work, can they unilaterally raise their own pay from one day to the next, the way a capitalist can unilaterally raise prices from one day to the next? No. If they fight tooth and nail, alongside lots of other workers and a decent union, for months or years then they might just claw their way up to parity with the rate of inflation.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

emanymton said:


> So basically he has a PHD in a meaningless subject.



But he's found a long-winded way of saying it and that's the important thing.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> the way a capitalist can unilaterally raise prices from one day to the next?


These potato farmers, they are capitalists right?








						UK facing drought in August following extreme heat
					

Hosepipe bans could be brought in and farmers restricted from irrigating crops




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## teuchter (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> But, aside from freelance management consultants and other people who don't count as workers because they don't do any work, can they unilaterally raise their own pay from one day to the next, the way a capitalist can unilaterally raise prices from one day to the next? No. If they fight tooth and nail, alongside lots of other workers and a decent union, for months or years then they might just claw their way up to parity with the rate of inflation.


Firstly, a self employed plumber (for example) can raise their prices in a period of high demand.

Secondly, I don't see how a capitalist can "unilaterally" raise prices from one day to the next because if they raise them too high no-one will pay them, unless they are in the special position of having a monopoly.

But if we can agree that either of those two can raise their prices to some extent in certain circumstances I don't see why it's only plausible that the capitalist's price rises could have some impact on inflation.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> But he's found a long-winded way of saying it and that's the important thing.


its not long winded! it just says we do not know, economics is complicated, if you want a simple story pick one and enjoy it but don't expect it to reflect reality, that's all.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> its not long winded! it just says we do not know, if you want a simple story pick one but don't expect it to reflect reality.



So his discipline is incapable of producing testable predictions. 

At least the tarot card woman at the funfair _pretends _to have a legitimate method of generating useful information. But these economics clowns are openly admitting that they're just sticking pins in the phone book.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> its not long winded! it just says we do not know, economics is complicated, if you want a simple story pick one and enjoy it but don't expect it to reflect reality, that's all.


There's pretty much a whole field of study which is about trying to understand complicated systems via simplified models, because it simply isn't possible to model them in full. Naturally it involves fully understanding the limits of the models you do have and making judgements about the extent of their reliability when drawing conclusions from them. It's not like simplified or incomplete models are necessarily useless.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

Yes. But are the potato farmers who may be banned from watering their crops next month capitalists and therefore baddies, and so we dont care about their potatoes, or not. I care about their potatoes.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Secondly, I don't see how a capitalist can "unilaterally" raise prices from one day to the next because if they raise them too high no-one will pay them, unless they are in the special position of having a monopoly.


----------



## xenon (Jul 26, 2022)

Love that they actually apparently have to get someone to validate i.e. cross reference with members list. Rather than just having the backend do a database lookup. pfft.


----------



## xenon (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> Economics is so much more interesting than people would like it to be.
> Someone with an economics phd who i asked about Sunak's claim that tax cuts = inevitable inflation said this;
> "either you can make a model that looks like reality, but it's so complicated that you can't learn anything from it, or you can make a model that's simple enough to learn from, but then it doesn't behave like reality".
> I think mostly we choose simple, not caring about how it maps onto reality.



I think economics has more in common with religion than science. Other than on the most basic self evident transactional trueisms. i.e. you have potatoes I'm hungry and have gold.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Secondly, I don't see how a capitalist can "unilaterally" raise prices from one day to the next because if they raise them too high no-one will pay them, unless they are in the special position of having a monopoly.



My mate has been boycotting food on account of the price hikes. Dunno how he's getting on with it though, because he's gone a bit quiet lately for some reason.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

xenon said:


> I think economics has more in common with religion than science. Other than on the most basic self evident transactional trueisms. i.e. you have potatoes I'm hungry and have gold.



'Our economic models are so complicated you wouldn't understand them' does sound a lot like, 'god's will is ineffable, shut up and pay your tithe peasant'.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

xenon said:


> I think economics has more in common with religion than science. Other than on the most basic self evident transactional trueisms. i.e. you have potatoes I'm hungry and have gold.


absolutely, it seems to be at least 3/4s about the psychological issues of the human animal observed in large numbers. The stock exchange loved trump, for instance, and people buy NFTs instead of tinned mackerel, its not any kind of science it belongs in a prefab bolted onto the anthropology department if anywhere.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> My mate has been boycotting food on account of the price hikes. Dunno how he's getting on with it though, because he's gone a bit quiet lately for some reason.


As you said, you might not be the best person to come to for basic thinking demonstrations.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> yep but like her mentor johnson, its just about saying what the current audience right now wants to hear.


Isn't it always? Irrespective of candidate or party?


----------



## xenon (Jul 26, 2022)

It's just a shame it's venerated so and we all have to make sacrifices and get dragged to church.

Even the mere suggestion of a slightly different scriptual interpretation gets you labelled as a dangerous radicle by the priesthood.


----------



## xenon (Jul 26, 2022)

I mean infinite growth in a finite system.

What the fuck is that if not delusional magic thinking.

I know preaching to the choir pun intended obv...


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Isn't it always? Irrespective of candidate or party?


i don't think it has always been so, do you? There have been people who truly believed in ideas good or bad and got themselves into power or tried to motivated by those ideas that they wanted to make happen, but that is not now.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> i don't think it has always been so, do you? There have been people who truly believed in ideas good or bad and got themselves into power or tried to motivated by those ideas that they wanted to make happen, but that is not now.



Hasn't been so for quite a while. 

As is often the case in life, I'm a HinJudChrBuddhist, every party has policies that you feel are important, no one party has them all. Trouble is, get to my age, you have seen them come, fail, go... rinse and repeat.

Perhaps political parties should be publicly funded, no external funding permitted. It  would probably be a hell of a lot cheaper than the current somewhat unacceptable system. I would increase MPs salaries, but would also place an absolute bar on outside employment, bar 'pro bono'.


----------



## JimW (Jul 26, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Perhaps political parties should be publicly funded, no external funding permitted. It would probably be a hell of a lot cheaper than the current somewhat unacceptable system. I would increase MPs salaries, but would also place an absolute bar on outside employment, bar 'pro bono'.


This is the Chinese Communist way, always had your cards marked. You need a large extended family to take all the plum jobs and backhanders instead.


----------



## contadino (Jul 26, 2022)

xenon said:


> I think economics has more in common with religion than science. Other than on the most basic self evident transactional trueisms. i.e. you have potatoes I'm hungry and have gold.


No. It's a complex system with all sorts of external influences. It's more akin to meteorology than religion.

That said it's boring as fuck.

I lifted my potatoes on Sunday, so am immune to price fluctuations until at least next year.


----------



## bimble (Jul 26, 2022)

contadino said:


> No. It's a complex system with all sorts of external influences. It's more akin to meteorology than religion.
> 
> That said it's boring as fuck.
> 
> I lifted my potatoes on Sunday, so am immune to price fluctuations until at least next year.


How is it boring or predictable? If it was either of those things the world would look a lot different. How much for your potatoes.


----------



## contadino (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> How is it boring or predictable? If it was either of those things the world would look a lot different. How much for your potatoes.


Only Michael Fish might claim it is predictable. I just said it's boring. My wife writes about it and it's impossible not to glaze over when she's waxing on the subject.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 26, 2022)

Sunak now promising to scrap VAT on domestic energy bills if he become PM.
After spending most of the year as chancellor with power to actually enact that already categorically rejecting the idea.

I do hope he steals more Labour policies. Need something to make this crap interesting as it drags on another 5 weeks.


----------



## xenon (Jul 26, 2022)

contadino said:


> No. It's a complex system with all sorts of external influences. It's more akin to meteorology than religion.
> 
> That said it's boring as fuck.
> 
> I lifted my potatoes on Sunday, so am immune to price fluctuations until at least next year.



Except when it rains, there are actual physical phenomena  that can be observed, measured and predicted to an extent. When the stock exchange ralleys because Johnson has said something, it's faith.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Whatever else you are doing, in relentlessly pursuing this off-topic beef you're increasing the likelihood of a ban.
> 
> So do carry on. In fact, double down on it.





existentialist said:


> "like you always do". Strange thing for a n00b to be saying...



Some here seem more interested in n00bs getting banned than regulars getting called-out…


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I've quoted it in case you decide on waking to delete this great turd of a post


So what happened to that “bully” picture you liked?

Looked like this one…


----------



## Humberto (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> So what happened to that “bully” picture you liked?


Do you enjoy this pearl clutching self-righteousness?


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Do you enjoy this pearl clutching self-righteousness?


Not at all, Humberto.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 26, 2022)

...and it's happy acrimony wow hour on the Tory leadership thread. Again.

I expect this may go on for some time.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 26, 2022)

Look, I have as many problems with economics as the next anti-capitalist wannabe but there’s confusion being made here between economics and finance and a lot of bashing of economics for things it left behind 30 years ago.  Economics is not about predicting stock markets, although some might try to apply it to second-guess those movements. And it no longer makes simple links between macro variables, regardless of what A-level students might learn


----------



## xenon (Jul 26, 2022)

OH here we go, 2 more pages of dull as fuck beefings again.




That's the Wow show BTW, I'd actually rather talk about economics. 

Tell us your view on economics wow.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

bimble said:


> i don't think it has always been so, do you? There have been people who truly believed in ideas good or bad and got themselves into power or tried to motivated by those ideas that they wanted to make happen, but that is not now.


Bad people do good things and vice versa. But the law of averages says the most ambitious politicians are all bad because their self interest trumps their initial benevolence.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

xenon said:


> OH here we go, 2 more pages of dull as fuck beefings again.


Sorry mate. Just ignore me if the forum has that ability.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

eatmorecheese said:


> ...and it's happy acrimony wow hour on the Tory leadership thread. Again.
> 
> I expect this may go on for some time.


Hopefully there’s a way you can ignore any posts I make or something. There normally is.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Some here seem more interested in n00bs getting banned than regulars getting called-out…


You're not a new poster, though, Dan


----------



## Humberto (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> Not at all, Humberto.



It's fairly combative at times, the language quite bad and 'noobs' do get a bad time sometimes because most of them do end up being suspect when they kick off on people straight away e.g. conspiracists and that whole gamut. 

There isn't much actual 'bullying' beyond that. I don't know if this is personal for you or someone you know, but I think you are tilting at windmills.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You're not a new poster, though, Dan


I’ve got a lot fewer posts than you. My name is “wow”.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

Humberto said:


> It's fairly combative at times, the language quite bad and 'noobs' do get a bad time sometimes because most of them do end up being suspect when they kick off on people straight away e.g. conspiracists and that whole gamut.
> 
> There isn't much actual 'bullying' beyond that. I don't know if this is personal for you or someone you know, but I think you are tilting at windmills.


Thanks, Humberto. What a nice reply.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

wow said:


> I’ve got a lot fewer than you. My name is “wow”.


Your name is Dan

As the tragic Spanner, you also obsessed about numbers of posts from the posters you are focusing on

It's a very poor return, you had all the time to prepare and this is your best effort?

You've not only let us all down, but you've let yourself down


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Your name is Dan
> 
> As Spanner, you also obsessed about numbers of posts


It isn’t.


----------



## wow (Jul 26, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Your name is Dan
> 
> As the tragic Spanner, you also obsessed about numbers of posts from the posters you are focusing on
> 
> ...



Well, you certainly edited that reply after you first published it. 

A bit like Pickman's model with the bully photo a few posts north.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 27, 2022)

wow said:


> Well, you certainly edited that reply after you first published it.
> 
> A bit like Pickman's model with the bully photo a few posts north.


Exact same m.o. and posting times

This is desperate, Dan


----------



## wow (Jul 27, 2022)

M.O. ?

I called you out on that about five pages ago. Please keep up.


----------



## Smangus (Jul 27, 2022)

wow said:


> Hopefully there’s a way you can ignore any posts I make or something. There normally is.



I think you should take your own advice and ignore your posts.


----------



## wow (Jul 27, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Exact same m.o. and posting times
> 
> This is desperate, Dan


Let’s straighten this situation out, mate.


YOU (and others) have been accused of intimidating one or more members of this forum IN THIS THREAD.

YOUR reaction to that has been to try to harass me off the forum, presumably because you think either:
1. Wow will give up and leave,
2. Wow will get confrontational and banned,
3. Wow will figure out his place and quiet down

The trouble is — YOU
krtek a houby - YOU try to intimidate people.

That’s not MY problem. Or your VICTIMS. It’s yours.

You don’t intimidate me, mate. Also, Dan isn’t my name. So don’t keep calling me it.

Wow


----------



## wow (Jul 27, 2022)

Smangus said:


> I think you should take your own advice and ignore your posts.


I’ll test out the functionality on yours. If you don’t hear from me, you’ll know the experiment was successful


----------



## wow (Jul 27, 2022)

wow said:


> Let’s straighten this situation out, mate.
> 
> 
> YOU (and others) have been accused of intimidating one or more members of this forum IN THIS THREAD.
> ...


Funny, krtek a houby ?


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Jul 27, 2022)




----------



## Raheem (Jul 27, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Around 13 million people voted Tory at the last election but there are only 200,000 Tory party members.


Nobody knows how many people are in the Tory party. The started making it secret when it dropped down to something like 30,000 and it was considered too embarrassing. There may have since been a influx of people due to Brexit and having cartoon character as leader, but 200,000 is probably definitely a massive overestimate.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 27, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> You're not a new poster, though, Dan


Why are you so obsessed with new/returning posters?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 27, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> I did find RS constantly talking over Truss and the host a little off putting-watching as a neutral in the debate.



Same.  If by "neutral" you mean "hate them both equally".


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2022)

wow said:


> Well, you certainly edited that reply after you first published it.
> 
> A bit like Pickman's model with the bully photo a few posts north.


I think you're somewhat confused. I haven't posted a bully photo. I haven't liked a bully photo. Your posts are all cow pies. And not of the sort desperate Dan likes


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 27, 2022)

We got around to watching 'the Last Leg' last night, they billed the leadership race as a boxing contest.

Rishi ‘The Furlough Fighter’ Sunak -V- Liz ‘I Can’t Believe I’m Here Either’ Truss
For the WTF title, it’s the ‘Triennial Tory Smack Down’ – the car crash of the titans.
It’s a choice between a punch in the face, or a kick in the bollocks.

And, one of them commenting on Truss saying ‘trust me to deliver’, said they put more trust in Hermes.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 27, 2022)

wow said:


> I’ll test out the functionality on yours. If you don’t hear from me, you’ll know the experiment was successful


Ooh! Me next!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 27, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> We got around to watching 'the Last Leg' last night, they billed the leadership race as a boxing contest.
> 
> Rishi ‘The Furlough Fighter’ Sunak -V- Liz ‘I Can’t Believe I’m Here Either’ Truss
> For the WTF title, it’s the ‘Triennial Tory Smack Down’ – the car crash of the titans.
> ...


When Tories ask you to trust them, the irony meter goes off the scale


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 27, 2022)

Liz Truss orders police to cut murders by 20% in policy dismissed as ‘incoherent’
					

Police sources hit out at ‘throwback to the incoherent ignorance of past politicians’ after 2015 review warned targets caused some crimes to be neglected




					www.independent.co.uk
				




Incredible thinking from Truss, but it begs the question, why did nobody think of just ordering crime to be cut by 20% before? In fact ... could she not just order it to be cut by 100%?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Liz Truss orders police to cut murders by 20% in policy dismissed as ‘incoherent’
> 
> 
> Police sources hit out at ‘throwback to the incoherent ignorance of past politicians’ after 2015 review warned targets caused some crimes to be neglected
> ...


Easy to cut crime by 20%, the cops will just stop recording 1 out of 5 crimes reported to them and amalgamate others. Watch out for a stats scandal in a couple of years time


----------



## contadino (Jul 27, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Liz Truss orders police to cut murders by 20% in policy dismissed as ‘incoherent’
> 
> 
> Police sources hit out at ‘throwback to the incoherent ignorance of past politicians’ after 2015 review warned targets caused some crimes to be neglected
> ...


...and unemployment...

...and sickness and injuries.

It's a clear route to the small state, low taxation, no society that Tories love.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2022)

contadino said:


> ...and unemployment...
> 
> ...and sickness and injuries.
> 
> It's a clear route to the small state, low taxation, no society that Tories love.


High ceo wages and penury for so many other people


----------



## brogdale (Jul 27, 2022)

wow said:


> Let’s straighten this situation out, mate.
> 
> 
> YOU (and others) have been accused of intimidating one or more members of this forum IN THIS THREAD.
> ...


No, let's really straighten this out.
Your endless tedious, nonsense puts the thread at risk of being binned. It's not just a matter of ignoring your wind-up posts; you need to be banned in order that enjoyable discussion is not lost because of your wrecking behaviour.


----------



## Smangus (Jul 27, 2022)

wow said:


> I’ll test out the functionality on yours. If you don’t hear from me, you’ll know the experiment was successful



That's a good start, not hearing from you that is.


----------



## killer b (Jul 27, 2022)

just don't reply to the weirdo fucking hell


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 27, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Nobody knows how many people are in the Tory party. The started making it secret when it dropped down to something like 30,000 and it was considered too embarrassing. There may have since been a influx of people due to Brexit and having cartoon character as leader, but 200,000 is probably definitely a massive overestimate.


200,000 is the figure that was announced March last year by Amanda Milling co-chairman at the time. The Labour Party has a little over twice as many and the SNP a little over half that number. They could all be lying through their teeth or the number might have dropped massively in the last 15 months but it does seem believable.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 27, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Liz Truss orders police to cut murders by 20% in policy dismissed as ‘incoherent’
> 
> 
> Police sources hit out at ‘throwback to the incoherent ignorance of past politicians’ after 2015 review warned targets caused some crimes to be neglected
> ...


I guess they could try and kill a few less people, that might help a bit.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 27, 2022)

They have a point.









						BBC criticised over climate question in Tory leadership debate
					

Campaigners say question about individual action was irresponsible and too little time spent on subject




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 27, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Liz Truss orders police to cut murders by 20% in policy dismissed as ‘incoherent’
> 
> 
> Police sources hit out at ‘throwback to the incoherent ignorance of past politicians’ after 2015 review warned targets caused some crimes to be neglected
> ...


I honestly thought that was Newsthump for a minute. Bloody hell.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 27, 2022)




----------



## JimW (Jul 27, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> View attachment 334721


Seems fair enough, part of getting ready for when one or the other will be fucking the rest of us similarly.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 27, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> View attachment 334724


----------



## stavros (Jul 27, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> We got around to watching 'the Last Leg' last night, they billed the leadership race as a boxing contest.
> 
> Rishi ‘The Furlough Fighter’ Sunak -V- Liz ‘I Can’t Believe I’m Here Either’ Truss
> For the WTF title, it’s the ‘Triennial Tory Smack Down’ – the car crash of the titans.
> ...


Frankie Boyle had the best take on matters (to paraphrase slightly):

"It's like finally tunnelling out of R Kelly's mansion to find yourself in Prince Andrew's living room."


----------



## wow (Jul 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> No, let's really straighten this out.
> Your endless tedious, nonsense puts the thread at risk of being binned. It's not just a matter of ignoring your wind-up posts; you need to be banned in order that enjoyable discussion is not lost because of your wrecking behaviour.
> 
> View attachment 334681



Brogdale. My wrecking behaviour?


krtek a houby said:


> Come on, Dan
> 
> You can do better





krtek a houby said:


> Shut it, Dan





krtek a houby said:


> Yeah, you did this exact same kind of shit as Spanner.
> 
> Just admit it, Dan





krtek a houby said:


> You made similar claims as Spanner and how posters shouldn't use harsh language in case of offense
> 
> Sorry you feel bullied, Dan
> 
> ...





krtek a houby said:


> Prince Philip was yer dad, Dan





krtek a houby said:


> You interfere with dolphins





krtek a houby said:


> You pleasure albatrosses





krtek a houby said:


> You heart Chris Pratt tweets



None of this is “bullying, “endless personal attacks”, or “needlessly disruptive behaviour”? Or did you just highlight _my _wrecking behaviour?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 27, 2022)




----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 27, 2022)

Spanner spanning again at the usual times

C'mon editor , do your thing and chuck this eejit out


----------



## wow (Jul 27, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Spanner spanning again at the usual times
> 
> C'mon editor , do your thing and chuck this eejit out



So privately messaging me with violent language about what “I need”…is what? “Urban banter”?

One for the mods to sort out for sure.


----------



## killer b (Jul 27, 2022)

killer b said:


> just don't reply to the weirdo fucking hell


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 27, 2022)

wow said:


> So privately messaging me with violent language about what “I need”…is what? “Urban banter”?
> 
> One for the mods to sort out for sure.


Ok, a parsnip then


----------



## killer b (Jul 27, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Ok, a parsnip then


No really stop it.


----------



## A380 (Jul 28, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Easy to cut crime by 20%, when you cut 1 in 5 cops - so the cops will just stop recording 1 out of 5 crimes reported to them and amalgamate others. Watch out for several stats scandals  in a couple of months time



FTFY


----------



## Dandred (Jul 28, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 28, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 28, 2022)




----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 28, 2022)

So Thatch mk 2 is off to the football final. When asked when she last went to women's football she Shat herself, looked shifty and said ' err about 3 years ago'. 
I'll bet my last quid that's another fucking lie.


----------



## xenon (Jul 28, 2022)

And, what? What do the people say on Twitter that any of us listening ourselves don’t know. Or maybe you could put it in your own words. Crazy thought I know.


----------



## xenon (Jul 28, 2022)

Not at you calamity. Post above. Copy and paste now non-existent tweets from Twitter. Come on. Say something.


----------



## xenon (Jul 28, 2022)

anyway Lizz obviously has it in the bag. Get used to your new prime minister. God help us.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 28, 2022)

Getting questioned on her old school now.
Losing it,  as it's been pointed out it's surrounded by million pound houses.
Fuck it, can't take anymore.


----------



## xenon (Jul 28, 2022)

This audience are fucking dickheads. Why hasn’t anyone asked you lot have had 12 years to do all this simplified tax and whatever. Oh no I forget they are Tory voters.


----------



## xenon (Jul 28, 2022)

What the fuck is bottom-up locally driven housing. Oh it’s cunts building Student apartments. But has been going on for the last 10 years. Expensive small flat. Yeah that’s working well.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 28, 2022)

xenon said:


> This audience are fucking dickheads. Why hasn’t anyone asked you lot have had 12 years to do all this simplified tax and whatever. Oh no I forget they are Tory voters.


Getting applause for saying thatch was the best pm ever had me reaching for the BP tablets, and had I any in, the brandy.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 28, 2022)




----------



## Elpenor (Jul 28, 2022)

Tbf that’s a northern trajectory from birth to uni.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 28, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Tbf that’s a northern trajectory from birth to uni.


Aaaah, a loophole!


----------



## BCBlues (Jul 28, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Tbf that’s a northern trajectory from birth to uni.



The only way is oop


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 28, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



North of where?


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 28, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> North of where?


Jersey


----------



## Supine (Jul 28, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> North of where?



North of cunt. And south. Also central cunt.


----------



## Bingoman (Jul 28, 2022)

Those stats saying he northern chancellor we had, well 1 out of 5 ain't bad


----------



## Raheem (Jul 29, 2022)

Tbf, we need to take into account how much of the north he owns.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 29, 2022)

Eh? Brown was from Scotland, and wasn't Norman lamont from the Shetland Islands? Bout as north as you can get without being father fucking Christmas.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 29, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Eh? Brown was from Scotland, and wasn't Norman lamont from the Shetland Islands? Bout as north as you can get without being father fucking Christmas.



That’s too north. Sunak obviously only counts England. 
See the other day he boasted about being in Darlington when questioned on the union with Scotland. 


He’s still got to be wrong though. 
One of Macmillan’s chancellors Selwyn Lloyd was from Merseyside. Just a higher latitude than Richmond?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 29, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Eh? Brown was from Scotland, and wasn't Norman lamont from the Shetland Islands? Bout as north as you can get without being father fucking Christmas.


Didn't Father Christmas run for London mayor some years back?


----------



## Raheem (Jul 29, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Didn't Father Christmas run for London mayor some years back?


Never promised to give up the second job.


----------



## andysays (Jul 29, 2022)

I see Truss was praising Don Revie last night.

Clearly going for the Dirty Leeds vote.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 29, 2022)

Ben Wallace comes out for Truss, says Sunak resisted uplift in defence spending, but was overruled by Johnson, basically accusing Sunak of lying.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 29, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Ben Wallace comes out for Truss, says Sunak resisted uplift in defence spending, but was overruled by Johnson, basically accusing Sunak of lying.



I've become fascinated by the idea that Wallace is the 'kingmaker' and would have won if he's stood. I mean, what is he? What's he ever done?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 29, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I've become fascinated by the idea that Wallace is the 'kingmaker' and would have won if he's stood. I mean, what is he? What's he ever done?


You mean apart from going on twatter to probably breach the OSA and out himself as a Walter?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> You mean apart from going on twatter to probably breach the OSA and out himself as a Walter?




Exactly. Dodgy af.


----------



## agricola (Jul 29, 2022)

Sunak vs Neil is quite funny, not seen someone treat Brillo with such disdain since Corbs in 2017


----------



## brogdale (Jul 29, 2022)

agricola said:


> Sunak vs Neil is quite funny, not seen someone treat Brillo with such disdain since Corbs in 2017


Sunak came across as a boring, petty, petulant, thin-skinned public schoolboy; great stuff.
He's totally finished; back to being a hedgie again.


----------



## agricola (Jul 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Sunak came across as a boring, petty, petulant, thin-skinned public schoolboy; great stuff.
> He's totally finished; back to being a hedgie again.



I disagree that is how he came across, though he is probably finished.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 29, 2022)

agricola said:


> I disagree that is how he came across, though he is probably finished.


Can't imagine many tory members would have watched it to, if they did, it would have altered many minds in his favour. I genuinely thought he looked very uncomfortable being questioned, but it's always interesting to see other perceptions.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 29, 2022)

Watching on catch up. Blue on blue action.

Neil is doing a number on him, definitely one of the best interviewers when he’s got the bit between the teeth


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 29, 2022)

Sunak is lying about tax and NI - by freezing thresholds he drags more people into taxation.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 29, 2022)

Could be wrong but i am pretty sure he confirmed that he would not himself use the NHS. Cannier politician would have avoided giving that answer I think.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 29, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Could be wrong but i am pretty sure he confirmed that he would not himself use the NHS. Cannier politician would have avoided giving that answer I think.



Neil referring to waiting lists said “would you wait for a year?” 

Sunak said “No, I think this is unacceptable”


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> You mean apart from going on twatter to probably breach the OSA and out himself as a Walter?


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 29, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Neil referring to waiting lists said “would you wait for a year?”
> 
> Sunak said “No, I think this is unacceptable”


ambiguous answer i think you will agree?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 29, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> ambiguous answer i think you will agree?


Very obviously "why wait in line with the little people when it's loose change to me".


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 29, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> ambiguous answer i think you will agree?


Yes I think it was ambiguous though IMV as with all the questions he was answering the question he wanted to answer not what Neil asked him. 

I can’t imagine he would use any public services, possibly out of principle due to his families penchant for avoiding tax


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 29, 2022)

agricola said:


> I disagree that is how he came across, though he is probably finished.



Agreed. On both points. Neil is a bully and Sunak stood his ground.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 29, 2022)




----------



## ouirdeaux (Jul 29, 2022)

We live in a world where Rishi Sunak seems a marginally better alternative than Liz Truss, at least in some moods. I don't like this world. It's gone all very strange since 2016. I mean, it was no picnic before that, but before Brexit/Trump it didn't have the same aura of complete irrationality.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 29, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> We live in a world where Rishi Sunak seems a marginally better alternative than Liz Truss, at least in some moods. I don't like this world. It's gone all very strange since 2016. I mean, it was no picnic before that, but before Brexit/Trump it didn't have the same aura of complete irrationality.


I'm old enough to remember them all roaring and cheering as they introduced, then voted for legislation that would impoverish the poorest, as a reaction to the financial crash and as if you can cut your way out of a recession. I remember the effects of those cuts to me and mine and the way my town just died. I'm old enough to remember Andrew Lansley's health and social care act (2012) scaring the shit out of me because of the implications playing out as realities now. Now its extending outwards to eat up people who aren't routinely used to being marginalised, done to rather than doing.


----------



## wow (Jul 29, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> We live in a world where Rishi Sunak seems a marginally better alternative than Liz Truss


Revel in your nostalgia, mate.

Truss will be your new PM. Fuck knows what happens after that


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 30, 2022)

Interesting point about high inflation is it will increase tax take - CEBR estimate 60bn fiscal headroom: The Telegraph - Next Tory leader has room to make £60bn in tax cuts, say economists

So when Rishi cautions about tax cuts he is really talking about slightly slower tax increases...


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 30, 2022)

Interesting point about high inflation is it will increase tax take - CEBR estimate 60bn fiscal headroom: The Telegraph - Next Tory leader has room to make £60bn in tax cuts, say economists

So when Rishi cautions about tax cuts he is really talking about slightly slower tax increases...


----------



## teqniq (Jul 30, 2022)

Haha desperate stuff here, meanwhile if Truss becomes leader and PM maybe we are headed for a massive showdown particularly as she has stated that she will implement anti-strike legislation.









						Rishi Sunak seeks to revive faltering No 10 bid by attacking ‘woke nonsense’
					

Ex-chancellor vows to stop leftwing agitators ‘bulldozing’ British values as Tugendhat backs Truss




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 30, 2022)

wow said:


> Revel in your nostalgia, mate.
> 
> Truss will be your new PM. Fuck knows what happens after that



Post in thread 'Tory Leadership contest 2022'
Tory Leadership contest 2022


----------



## brogdale (Jul 30, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Haha desperate stuff here, meanwhile if Truss becomes leader and PM maybe we are headed for a massive showdown particularly as she has stated that she will implement anti-strike legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let's hope she faces a complete wall of strikes and then has to go to the country to ask who governs this country.


----------



## quiet guy (Jul 30, 2022)

The only problem with that scenario is the utter shite of Labour leadership that would be up against her.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 30, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> The only problem with that scenario is the utter shite of Labour leadership that would be up against her.



This is the thing isn’t it, Labour need to sell a vision of the future that people want - so far it’s “moderate centrism and sensible curbs on workers rights for all”.

I have many problems with Corbyn but he was at least passionate and sold the idea that we deserve better.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 30, 2022)




----------



## Thesaint (Jul 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Let's hope she faces a complete wall of strikes and then has to go to the country to ask who governs thi


If there's huge national strikes she may win a huge majority in a GE though.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 30, 2022)

teqniq said:


> View attachment 335160


Children and their rebellions 🙄


----------



## Santino (Jul 30, 2022)

teqniq said:


> View attachment 335160


How many chancellors does Paul Jeeves think the University of Leeds has?


----------



## teqniq (Jul 30, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Children and their rebellions 🙄


I wouldn't necessarily define it as a rebellion per se. She seems to have done whatever is expedient at the time to climb the greasy pole to power. I don't think she believes in anything wholeheartedly other than her own self-aggrandisement.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 30, 2022)

The fact he's 75 and apparently still thinks he ought to have been able to mould his child to his own political outlook, to the detriment of his own relationship with her, is quite pathetic really.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 30, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> The fact he's 75 and apparently still thinks he ought to have been able to mould his child to his own political outlook, to the detriment of his own relationship with her, is quite pathetic really.


Is that what he has said?  I just see him saying that his relationship with her has suffered because of her political actions. I’m not surprised — be they friend or family, I couldn’t be _close_ to someone like Liz Truss.


----------



## belboid (Jul 30, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> The fact he's 75 and apparently still thinks he ought to have been able to mould his child to his own political outlook, to the detriment of his own relationship with her, is quite pathetic really.


Don’t be silly


----------



## andysays (Jul 30, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> The only problem with that scenario is the utter shite of Labour leadership that would be up against her.


If the new Tory PM does face a wave of strikes,  they can rely on the complete backing and support of the current Labour leadership.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Let's hope she faces a complete wall of strikes and then has to go to the country to ask who governs this country.





Thesaint said:


> If there's huge national strikes she may win a huge majority in a GE though.



It didn't work out well for Heath when he called the Feb. 1974 general election with the slogan of "Who governs Britain?"


----------



## brogdale (Jul 30, 2022)

Thesaint said:


> If there's huge national strikes she may win a huge majority in a GE though.


The elderly tory base have yet to get the massively hiked energy bills for their large houses.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 30, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It didn't work out well for Heath when he called the Feb. 1974 general election with the slogan of "Who governs Britain?"


Was wot I was thinking


----------



## flypanam (Jul 30, 2022)

Thesaint said:


> If there's huge national strikes she may win a huge majority in a GE though.


Or the mass action of workers may break the tories for a decade. And put manners on Shammer. 

Not everything will cause a negative reaction.


----------



## Thesaint (Jul 30, 2022)

I would assume most strike action would be public sector workers so wouldn't automatically have support with this working in the private sector which maybe a big difference to the 70s (a bit before my day).  Any PM who says I will change the law to stop this might get widespread support if they're convincing.   Be careful what you wish for!


----------



## flypanam (Jul 30, 2022)

I’m pretty sure private sector workers are feeling the pain too. Didn’t a load walkout of a factory during the week?









						Wildcat strike at Bury food firm as staff clash with management
					

"People are tired, exhausted, and just want to have proper breaks - drink, rest"




					www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 30, 2022)

flypanam said:


> I’m pretty sure private sector workers are feeling the pain too. Didn’t a load walkout of a factory during the week?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly the example of the Cov bin men is a shot in the arm for downtrodden private sector workers locally .


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 30, 2022)

Thesaint said:


> I would assume most strike action would be public sector workers so wouldn't automatically have support with this working in the private sector which maybe a big difference to the 70s (a bit before my day).  Any PM who says I will change the law to stop this might get widespread support if they're convincing.   Be careful what you wish for!



There have been over 60 strikes - and hundreds of disputes settled in our favour - in the private sector involving Unite members alone this year. The Royal Mail is also in the private sector. As is BT. As is BA.

There is an undoubted risk that public sector only strikes will be ineffective as they lack specific leverage and crucially cannot disrupt the flow of capital easily. There is also the reality some private sector employers are more savvy than the Tories and are tactically conceding on pay this year with relatively attractive short term deals and where they are biding their time for the coming recession.

But a) it’s now or never for a generalised strike around pay and the cost of living and b) I do sense a different wider public mood. As Mick Lynch had pointed out people recognise that they are skint, are working but can’t pay their bills and recognise that the easiest way to address this is through the pay packet. What we need is public and private sector action strengthening, encouraging and feeding off each other. We also need union tops to commit seriously to an organising drive in the parts of the private sector where unions do not exist and people can’t collectively stand up for themselves. Lynch, Sharon Graham and others are seemingly part of a new wave of union tops who recognise that.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 30, 2022)

Sadly a lot of people still seem to take the attitude “why should someone else get a pay rise when I don’t” which is exactly want the Tories want - the people divided and set against each other


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 30, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Sadly a lot of people still seem to take the attitude “why should someone else get a pay rise when I don’t” which is exactly want the Tories want - the people divided and set against each other



Agreed. But part of that is a frustration that they can’t do what the RMT and others do either because there is no union or the union is ineffective or because they don’t know how. Our job is to talk to them and work with them to find a solution.

ETA, in our branch we’ve already done a load of work organising in our outsourced areas which has been successful. We are now talking about how we could do similar in a few local food production/distribution places on an industrial estate by us. Harder to do as we don’t have the faculties that we’ve got on our own turf plus we don’t have the same relationship with the workers. Yet. It’s slow, resource intensive work and isn’t sexy or going to topple the Tories. But, there are no shortcuts that I can see


----------



## teqniq (Jul 30, 2022)

Comedy interlude, or perhaps not. Particularly if as is looking increasingly likely Truss wins and actually does appoint Redwood as chancellor:


----------



## teqniq (Jul 31, 2022)

What fresh hell is this?


----------



## belboid (Jul 31, 2022)

Fresh??


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 31, 2022)

"If Liz Truss is now the frontrunner in this campaign, it is because it is clear that she understands what is broken about Britain" but she hasn't the foggiest who broke it.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 31, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Haha desperate stuff here, meanwhile if Truss becomes leader and PM maybe we are headed for a massive showdown particularly as she has stated that she will implement anti-strike legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> He will also pledge to put guidance on relationships and sex education on to a statutory footing to ensure children are “shielded from inappropriate material”.



There is already statutory guidance on relationship and sex education. Fucking reams of it.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 31, 2022)

brogdale said:


> The elderly tory base have yet to get the massively hiked energy bills for their large houses.



Their pensions are going up in line with the actual rate of inflation though, unlike the 3-5% public sector workers will get if they're lucky.

And rent inflation won't touch them, save to put yet more money in their pockets.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 31, 2022)

> He will also pledge to put guidance on relationships and sex education on to a statutory footing to ensure children are “shielded from inappropriate material”.



new 'section 28' incoming...


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 31, 2022)

> "If Liz Truss is now the frontrunner in this campaign, it is because it is clear that she understands what is broken about Britain"



The Telegraph seem to think the 200,000 Nutjob, racists and the permanently confused who make up the membership equate to the general population.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 31, 2022)

Tory MPs condemn Nadine Dorries over 'disgraceful, dangerous' Rishi Sunak knife post
					

'That sort of imagery and narrative is not just incendiary, it's wrong,' one Cabinet colleague said of Ms Dorries' post




					inews.co.uk


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 31, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Tory MPs condemn Nadine Dorries over 'disgraceful, dangerous' Rishi Sunak knife post
> 
> 
> 'That sort of imagery and narrative is not just incendiary, it's wrong,' one Cabinet colleague said of Ms Dorries' post
> ...



She just keeps on delivering.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 31, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> She just keeps on delivering.


Just made sky news. Being condemned after the stabbing of David Amis. She's off her fucking head. Tweet is still on her page.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 31, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Being condemned after the stabbing of David Amis.


which it clearly has nothing to do with
tedious media circus IMO


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 31, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> She just keeps on delivering.



Why has she pictured Sunak about to stab Peter Schmeichel?


----------



## Sue (Jul 31, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Why has she pictured Sunak about to stab Peter Schmeichel?


Not a Man U fan..?


----------



## nottsgirl (Jul 31, 2022)

It’s “National Spare Room Database” day.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 31, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> It’s “National Spare Room Database” day.


I swear you could play a game of 'Which Fascistic Policy did the Tories Announce' for every day for the past ten (at least) years.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 31, 2022)




----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 31, 2022)

.
I'll delete the post if it is a hoax


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 31, 2022)

Of course it’s not real ffs


----------



## two sheds (Jul 31, 2022)

It's quite believable though


----------



## existentialist (Jul 31, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> .
> I'll delete the post if it is a hoax


I searched "dad's" Twitter handle and came up with nothing.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 31, 2022)

Obviously fake. As if she can tie her own shoes.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 31, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Obviously fake. As if she can tie her own shoes.



Together, probably.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 31, 2022)

Andrea Leadsom - who has a new book to promote - has warned Truss and Sunak not to make the Tories look worse than they do already: 



> I think the leadership candidates need to pay very careful attention to making sure that they’re not either overly damaging our own record



🤣 😄 😆 

Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak need to stop 'damaging' the Tory record, says Andrea Leadsom 

On Boris Johnson she said 



> I think as the recent shenanigans fade and dim in people’s memories, then his strong track record on things like getting Brexit done, winning a great big majority, getting the coronavirus vaccine, saving millions of jobs and businesses during covid – people will start to think of those things.



Blech.


----------



## bemused (Jul 31, 2022)

I'm not a fan of either of them, I find Sunak less objectionable simply because I don't think he's a headbanger - although he seems to be talking like one in the last few days. Truss however is going to be a Tory train wreck.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 31, 2022)

Rishi has been given the front page gush treatment for this desperate attempt to regain ground.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 1, 2022)

Can go here I think


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 1, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 1, 2022)

That's a shot from Midsomer Murders


----------



## rubbershoes (Aug 1, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> That's a shot from Midsomer Murders



If only


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Rishi has been given the front page gush treatment for this desperate attempt to regain ground.




Extra revenues from growth.


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 1, 2022)

Next up he’ll announce an expansion of the UK’s colony on Mars by 2100, funded through receipts from asteroid mining.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 1, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Extra revenues from growth.


That’ll be from the grave digging industry, food bank landlords, rat kebab sellers, firewood collectors and pop-up barber surgeons.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 1, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Next up he’ll announce an expansion of the UK’s colony on Mars by 2100, funded through receipts from asteroid mining.



Bitchained Benefits Payouts


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2022)

brogdale said:


> That’ll be from the *grave digging* industry, food bank landlords, rat kebab sellers, firewood collectors and pop-up barber surgeons.



As if anyone from my generation can afford 12 square feet of dirt to be buried in.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 1, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> As if anyone from my generation can afford 12 square feet of dirt to be buried in.


It's not so much the 12 sq ft as the 72 cubic feet


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> It's not so much the 12 sq ft as the 72 cubic feet



Yeah well anything that far down is probably covered by a fracking licence.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 1, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah well anything that far down is probably covered by a fracking licence.


if it's a tory it's bound to be a freaking licence


----------



## brogdale (Aug 1, 2022)

My (hyper) local news blog's take on Sunak's visit to the deep South of Croydon...


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Aug 1, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 1, 2022)




----------



## WhyLikeThis (Aug 1, 2022)




----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 1, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>




series of smaller tubes for teenagers, presumably?


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 1, 2022)




----------



## Flavour (Aug 1, 2022)

This is glorious. Is she gonna send priti Patel to the back benches? Every cloud


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 1, 2022)

Mordaunt definitely has a “great office of state” lined up


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 1, 2022)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 2, 2022)

Has anyone given any thought as to where she'll live once she's kissed Brenda's boney old fingers? Al Johnson refused to leave his offical residence when he was fired as FS for being lazy and incompetent, and I see no reason why things would be different this time.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 2, 2022)

Neither seem keen to say why we have to pay so much tax through our fuel costs at the pump or why our gas/electric bills cant be controlled and lowered (like other countries). And why our state pension is lower than just about everywhere. 


Self serving cunts


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Aug 2, 2022)

Sunak has really lurched right in his doomed bid to win the Surrey Golf Club Set hasn't he? Slash income tax, deport more immigrants, roll back human rights, anti-trans and anti-gay dog whistles. 









						Rishi Sunak pledges 20% tax cut by end of decade in last-gasp pitch to members
					

Former chancellor warns party members against ‘fantasy economics’, adding voting for Truss would be ‘self-sabotage’




					www.theguardian.com
				












						Rishi Sunak pledges to double number of foreign offenders deported
					

Tory leadership candidate says current system too soft but rival Truss camp says plan is unworkable




					www.theguardian.com
				












						Sunak Says ‘All Options on Table’ for UK Withdrawal From ECHR
					

Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak said “all options are on the table” when asked if the UK will withdraw from the European Court of Human Rights following a ruling against Britain’s migration policy.




					www.bloomberg.com
				












						Tory leadership race: Rishi Sunak vows to stop 'woke nonsense and left-wing agitators' in latest pledge
					

While claiming he has "zero interest in fighting a so-called culture war", Mr Sunak pledged to "stand up to left-wing agitators" and "protect British freedoms" if he becomes prime minister.




					news.sky.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Has anyone given any thought as to where she'll live once she's kissed Brenda's boney old fingers? Al Johnson refused to leave his offical residence when he was fired as FS for being lazy and incompetent, and I see no reason why things would be different this time.


johnson's next grace and favour home will be on coffin top


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



not the people who create the wealth then


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 2, 2022)

Sunak of course knows far more about tax avoidance than actually paying tax on say a £20,000 income and how that feels


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 2, 2022)

Truss going on about cutting civil service pay - totally tone deaf in a cost of living crisis


----------



## brogdale (Aug 2, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Truss going on about cutting civil service pay - totally tone deaf in a cost of living crisis


Again, a useful insight into the perception that the PCP have of their membership.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 2, 2022)

I guess that they can only win this vote by speaking to the very most rabid nutcases that this country can produce. Once in office, they’ll have to have somewhat more of an eye to addressing the other 48,800,000 of the total 48,900,000 UK voters.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 2, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I guess that they can only win this vote by speaking to the very most rabid nutcases that this country can produce. One in office, they’ll have to have somewhat more of an eye to addressing the other 48,800,000 of the total 48,900,000 UK voters.


yes, same policies but phrased in a more pleasing manner.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 2, 2022)

two sheds said:


> yes, same policies but phrased in a more pleasing manner.


Yes, the whole protracted, televised selection spectacle acts as yet another opportunity to shift that Overton window a bit further to the right.


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 2, 2022)

Both Loopy Lizzie and Rishi Rich are making ever more ridiculous promises trying to win over the party membership, whichever one of them wins will have to tone it down once they get the job and have to deal with this difficult problem called reality.
I'm waiting for the frothing loonspuds to start complaining that Truss (probably) isn't doing anything she promised.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 2, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Truss going on about cutting civil service pay


Didnt she famously search out the most expensive restaurant food to feed herself and her office staff and then claim it all as expenses, I bet her snout is permanently twitching at the thought of troughs to come


----------



## Supine (Aug 2, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Didnt she famously search out the most expensive restaurant food to feed herself and her office staff and then claim it all as expenses, I bet her snout is permanently twitching at the thought of troughs to come


Almost. She wanted to go for an expensive meal (£1300) but her staff / civil service advised her against it. She did it anyway.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 2, 2022)

Supine said:


> Almost. She wanted to go for an expensive meal (£1300) but her staff / civil service advised her against it. She did it anyway.


Food for office during lockdown was the one I vaguely recall, cba to google


----------



## two sheds (Aug 2, 2022)

How lucky that MPs aren't classed as civil servants, she won't have to reduce the pay for any of them who live outside London.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 2, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> not the people who create the wealth then



Nor bus drivers, bin men, nurses, firefighters, railway workers, posties etc etc etc. They should do the right thing, by fucking off working to keep society running and just try and get into the 'appropriating surplus value' game instead.


----------



## steeplejack (Aug 2, 2022)

What’s the point of having a vote? Everyone bar Larry the Cat & Barbara Cartland via ouija board has backed Truss.

William Hague has backed Sunak which all but guarantees he’ll lose. Looks like Rishi may have lots of time to count his money on the back benches soon.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 2, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Truss going on about cutting civil service pay - totally tone deaf in a cost of living crisis



Absolute insanity of cutting pay outside the south east as a policy.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 2, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Absolute insanity of cutting pay outside the south east as a policy.



Own goal surely?  It's stuff like this that will hopefully sink the Tories.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 2, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Truss going on about cutting civil service pay - totally tone deaf in a cost of living crisis



The total civil service pay bill is £9Bn. Truss states that she can save £8.8Bn by imposing regional pay, where the poorer the area you work the lower the pay. 

Leaving aside the fact that the next PM doesn't appear to be able to add up, the move to establish low pay zones is highly significant. The only way Truss can deliver £8.8Bn in savings (presumably to fund tax cuts) would be to attempt to impose regional pay on _all public sector workers including the NHS, Local Government, education and government staff. _ 

Leaving aside the practical and obvious flaws of the policy which is largely nonsensical in the real economy, as a political idea - when public sector unions are moving towards industrial action ballots over pay - it does appear that one effect of PM Truss would be to speed up the conditions necessary for some kind of general strike in the Autumn.  A generalized attack on the pay of 6 million workers as the latest round of energy price increases takes effect would be interesting to put it mildly. 

Again, the importance of the RMT winning its dispute is clear. The calculation was always to isolate and defeat the RMT first - a win for the RMT changes the dynamic for everyone else. Also clear is the need for a wave of disputes in the private sector to open up a second front against the Tories and to disrupt the flow of capital. Labour will no doubt oppose both the proposal to impose lower pay in poor areas and oppose any attempts to actually prevent it, so will be largely irrelevant to the battle lines being drawn.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 2, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Leaving aside the practical and obvious flaws of the policy which is largely nonsensical in the real economy, as a political idea - when public sector unions are moving towards industrial action ballots over pay - it does appear that one effect of PM Truss would be to speed up the conditions necessary for some kind of general strike in the Autumn.  A generalized attack on the pay of 6 million workers as the latest round of energy price increases takes effect would be interesting to put it mildly.



May be what she's hoping for - cue incessant headlines from the right wing rags on Unions being the Enemies of the People so we need to elect a tory government to counter it.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 2, 2022)

Liz Truss U-turns on plan to cut public sector pay outside London
					

Tory leadership frontrunner scraps plan for regional pay boards after outcry from Conservatives




					www.theguardian.com
				




That went well.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 2, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Liz Truss U-turns on plan to cut public sector pay outside London
> 
> 
> Tory leadership frontrunner scraps plan for regional pay boards after outcry from Conservatives
> ...


Truss might want to be Thatcher, but even Boris Johnson's ideas lasted a few days before crumbing on contact with reality and maths.

As for her suggestion that her comments have been misrepresented:


----------



## steveseagull (Aug 2, 2022)

Oh dear. The ballots go out today don't then?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 2, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> Oh dear. The ballots go out today don't then?



A self-inflicted blow by Truss undoubtedly and further evidence that the Tories really have reached the shite stained bottom of the barrel in terms of 'ideas' (or more accurately old failed ideas repackaged). But, she's still going to win.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 2, 2022)

Looks like Truss has been taking PR lessons from Dorries.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Truss might want to be Thatcher, but even Boris Johnson's ideas lasted a few days before crumbing on contact with reality and maths.
> 
> As for her suggestion that her comments have been misrepresented:



even boris johnson lies better than that


----------



## bemused (Aug 2, 2022)

It's funny to watch them articulate the bullshit they often discuss amongst themselves, present it as policy and watch it crash and burn.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 2, 2022)

"I KNOW, I KNOW - LET'S...." "Yes wonderful idea we'll do that  "


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

it's amazing how rarely the national interest fails to coincide with the interests of the party in government


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 2, 2022)

If they set out and tried to be shit they couldn’t be this shit could they?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> If they set out and tried to be shit they couldn’t be this shit could they?


no, it is a singular skill they have to be this crap


----------



## brogdale (Aug 2, 2022)

So she's fucked up, then?


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 2, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> not the people who create the wealth then


Unsurprising that Coffey amplified those words. She herself has nothing but contempt for people who can't work, as we can see from her time as minister in charge of the DWP. 
Good to know Truss is at least blatant about her own such contempt, even as she lies about caring for others.


----------



## Petcha (Aug 2, 2022)

The Tory electorate is (I think) largely white old men residing in the South East so now that she's through the whole ordeal of getting the support of Tory MPs worried about their seats she obvs will be aiming her policies at that demographic.

Interestingly it's all a little vague about who these fuckwits are who are deciding our future for the next two years. I hope it's a fuckup but I suspect it won't affect anything.



> So who are the Tory faithful? In contrast to the wider population, research indicates more than half are aged over 60, and they tend to be male residents of southern England. They are overwhelmingly white – at 97% – although ethnic minorities remain heavily underrepresented across all UK political parties.











						Tory faithful are male and grey but choice of leader is less clear cut
					

Analysis: Research indicates party members are over 60, male and white, yet do not like the same candidates




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Unsurprising that Coffey amplified those words. She herself has nothing but contempt for people who can't work, as we can see from her time as minister in charge of the DWP.
> Good to know Truss is at least blatant about her own such contempt, even as she lies about caring for others.


yeh i've followed coffey's career with horrified fascination for some years and it's amazing how she can out-herod herod.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> So she's fucked up, then?


when the alternative is sunak it's like a choice between treading in dogshit and catshit


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 2, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh i've followed coffey's career with horrified fascination for some years and it's amazing how she can out-herod herod.


The latest in a long line of morally bankrupt fetid turds.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> The latest in a long line of morally bankrupt fetid turds.


she is only differentiated by being a more highly educated morally bankrupt fetid turd


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 2, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The total civil service pay bill is £9Bn. Truss states that she can save £8.8Bn by imposing regional pay, where the poorer the area you work the lower the pay.
> 
> Leaving aside the fact that the next PM doesn't appear to be able to add up, the move to establish low pay zones is highly significant. The only way Truss can deliver £8.8Bn in savings (presumably to fund tax cuts) would be to attempt to impose regional pay on _all public sector workers including the NHS, Local Government, education and government staff. _
> 
> ...



It's not surprising Truss would come out with something as stupid as this. What is surprising is that, this late in the game, she still doesn't even have anyone working for her who will tell her how stupid it is.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 2, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's not surprising Truss would come out with something as stupid as this. What is surprising is that, this late in the game, she still doesn't even have anyone working for her who will tell her how stupid it is.



The proposal has been directly lifted from a Tax Payers Alliance report that was put out earlier this week it appears. No fact checking, no sense checking either. Massive own goal by Truss and her team, but also revealing of where Truss is headed politically.









						Local public sector pay rates could save taxpayers £9 billion
					

TaxPayers’ Alliance proposes reforms to national pay bargaining in the public sector, saving £8.8bn and making the system for pay deals fairer.




					www.taxpayersalliance.com


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 2, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The proposal has been directly lifted from a Tax Payers Alliance report that was put out earlier this week it appears. No fact checking, no sense checking either. Massive own goal by Truss and her team, but also revealing of where Truss is headed politically.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, again someone should really be leaning over and explaining that the taxpayers alliance are a bunch of spittle-flecked cranks who may occasionally be useful as rent-free rent-a-gobs but who should not be used a source of actual policy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah, again someone should really be leaning over and explaining that the taxpayers alliance are a bunch of spittle-flecked cranks who may occasionally be useful as rent-free rent-a-gobs but who should not be used a source of actual policy.


to be fair they're nowhere as spittle-flecked as the unfortunate people who have the bad luck to meet them


----------



## brogdale (Aug 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> The Tory electorate is (I think) largely white old men residing in the South East so now that she's through the whole ordeal of getting the support of Tory MPs worried about their seats she obvs will be aiming her policies at that demographic.
> 
> Interestingly it's all a little vague about who these fuckwits are who are deciding our future for the next two years. I hope it's a fuckup but I suspect it won't affect anything.
> 
> ...


I think the one outcome of the tory leadership election about which we can be assured is that it will be a fuckup.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 2, 2022)




----------



## two sheds (Aug 2, 2022)

Truss only needed to keep her mouth shut and she was a shoe-in it seems.


----------



## stavros (Aug 2, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> when the alternative is sunak it's like a choice between treading in dogshit and catshit


You'd pick cat shit every time in that match-up. There's a lot less of it, they sort themselves out with it, bury it in whichever of their gardens they fancy and don't hang it in bags on trees for someone else to clear up.

So which one is which, re. Sunak and Truss in this simile?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

stavros said:


> You'd pick cat shit every time in that match-up. There's a lot less of it, they sort themselves out with it, bury it in whichever of their gardens they fancy and don't hang it in bags on trees for someone else to clear up.
> 
> So which one is which, re. Sunak and Truss in this simile?


I'm not sure, it changes from day to day


----------



## killer b (Aug 2, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Truss only needed to keep her mouth shut and she was a shoe-in it seems.


fairly sure she's a shoo-in either way tbh


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> fairly sure she's a shoo-in either way tbh


Deserves a shoeing anyway


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 2, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Deserves a shoeing anyway


She's shoddy through and through.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> She's shoddy through and through.


And everything she says is cobblers


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 2, 2022)

She'll never last


----------



## not a trot (Aug 2, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> She'll never last



Boris, back in by Christmas. It's what all the fuckwits really want.


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 2, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> And everything she says is cobblers


Time to give the lot of them the boot.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 2, 2022)

Why? 
Not quite truss giving it the handmaid's tale, but..


----------



## Bingoman (Aug 2, 2022)

Tory leadership vote delayed after GCHQ hacking alert
					

Exclusive: Delivery of ballot papers to members on hold after cyber fraud risk identified




					www.telegraph.co.uk
				




Voting for the next Leader delayed to allow time for additional security  to be put into ballot process

And GCHQ also involved as fears over hacking online voting as it could change the vote?


----------



## Raheem (Aug 2, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> And GCHQ also involved as hopes over hacking online voting as it could change the vote?


C4u


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 2, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> And GCHQ also involved as fears over hacking online voting as it could change the vote?



have they suddenly found there's 3 candidates on the ballot?


----------



## wow (Aug 2, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Post in thread 'Tory Leadership contest 2022'
> Tory Leadership contest 2022


That quote might turn out totally accurate and prescient yet though.

But, right now. I don’t think so. 

That’s how politics works. You go all in at the time to try to force the issue. You’re trying to drive the narrative. 

But I changed my opinion fairly early, and have mostly stuck with it since it became obvious who would win. Despite her gaffe today, Truss is your new PM. 

Quote me on that next month


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 2, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Tory leadership vote delayed after GCHQ hacking alert
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Delivery of ballot papers to members on hold after cyber fraud risk identified
> ...



Some tory grandees have insisted portraits by Holbein be accepted as photo ID.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 2, 2022)

Starmer wins after all


----------



## teqniq (Aug 3, 2022)

Sunak's latest wheeze to appeal to the racists and general headbangers. Absolutely desperate and fucking dire shit:

People with ‘extreme hatred of Britain’ could be deradicalised under Prevent scheme


----------



## two sheds (Aug 3, 2022)

>



that's me down for deradicalising


----------



## brogdale (Aug 3, 2022)

two sheds said:


> that's me down for deradicalising


Called _Project Adolphe Miliband_


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 3, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Sunak's latest wheeze to appeal to the racists and general headbangers. Absolutely desperate and fucking dire shit:
> 
> People with ‘extreme hatred of Britain’ could be deradicalised under Prevent scheme



This process is exactly the same as a night on the ale. We've now reached the point in the evening where people have started making shit up, repeating themselves, and are generally talking bollocks. Still, only another month and then it'll all be over and Truss will be governing Britain


----------



## planetgeli (Aug 3, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Sunak's latest wheeze to appeal to the racists and general headbangers. Absolutely desperate and fucking dire shit:
> 
> People with ‘extreme hatred of Britain’ could be deradicalised under Prevent scheme



Fuck me they're getting desperate aren't they. Are they thinking these things up in the bath each night?

Or being 'misrepresented'?


----------



## contadino (Aug 3, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> This process is exactly the same as a night on the ale. We've now reached the point in the evening where people have started making shit up, repeating themselves, and are generally talking bollocks. Still, only another month and then it'll all be over and Truss will be governing Britain


You don't think she'll be spouting shit, making stuff up and repeating herself when she's got the job then? I'd say it's a given that she will.


----------



## bemused (Aug 3, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Sunak's latest wheeze to appeal to the racists and general headbangers. Absolutely desperate and fucking dire shit:
> 
> People with ‘extreme hatred of Britain’ could be deradicalised under Prevent scheme


In the last 12 years the criminal justice system has crashed, takes years to get to court, and they've essentially decriminalised raped because if you commit it's unlikely you'll even be charged, the majority of crimes never get in investigated. But he's focusing on people being mean to Britain, not sure why he's excluding Northern Ireland.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 3, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Sunak's latest wheeze to appeal to the racists and general headbangers. Absolutely desperate and fucking dire shit:
> 
> People with ‘extreme hatred of Britain’ could be deradicalised under Prevent scheme



Stealing ideas from fucking Xi Jinping now are we.


----------



## SysOut (Aug 3, 2022)

They didn't have to steal these ideas.


----------



## SysOut (Aug 3, 2022)

Britain had colonies. Some might say Britain is a colony.
People were put in prison for having "wrong" ideas and expressing them.

The Tories have become an extremist party.
That's the age in which we live.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 3, 2022)

A thread about Rishi's "don't bad mouth Britain" campaign.


----------



## bemused (Aug 3, 2022)

I love how the press is hyping up Truss as the Tory saviour, I see disappointment in their future.


----------



## prunus (Aug 3, 2022)

bemused said:


> I love how the press is hyping up Truss as the Tory saviour, I see disappointment in their future.



I see disappointment in all our futures.


----------



## Petcha (Aug 3, 2022)

I actually feel for the white, male Conservative electorate in this election. A woman. Or a brown person (albeit one even richer than most of them). Must be very troubling.

I think the brown person was just a step too far in this case. Truss blatantly channeling Thatch in her dress sense and mannerisms will win out - 34 points up now.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 3, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> A thread about Rishi's "don't bad mouth Britain" campaign.




All part of the same trend.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 3, 2022)

Quiz: Who said it - Rishi Sunak or David Brent?
					

Everybody knows a David Brent – and one of the people in the frame to be the next prime minister has channelled his inner cringy boss on more than one occasion. Rishi Sunak is going head to head with Liz Truss in the Tory leadership race at the moment, and a number of his recent quotes have been...




					www.indy100.com


----------



## Wilf (Aug 3, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I actually feel for the white, male Conservative electorate in this election. A woman. Or a brown person (albeit one even richer than most of them). *Must be very troubling*.
> 
> I think the brown person was just a step too far in this case. Truss blatantly channeling Thatch in her dress sense and mannerisms will win out - 34 points up now.


Not too sure about that. They'll somehow accept a rich, elite, power wielding ideologue who is brown or female.  Creating a society that isn't racist or sexist is another matter.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 3, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Sunak's latest wheeze to appeal to the racists and general headbangers. Absolutely desperate and fucking dire shit:
> 
> People with ‘extreme hatred of Britain’ could be deradicalised under Prevent scheme



It's a fucking more desperate right wing policy everyday from these two.  One wonders where we'll get to before the voting deadline.

Two years in jail if you can't sing all the words to God Save The Queen to a policeperson.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 3, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Not too sure about that. They'll somehow accept a rich, elite, power wielding ideologue who is brown or female.  Creating a society that isn't racist or sexist is another matter.



Init. Sunak is having to really ramp up the racist dog-whistle shit to even keep himself in the running.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 3, 2022)

bemused said:


> I love how the press is hyping up Truss as the Tory saviour, I see disappointment in their future.



Odd how few of them held this view while there were still more than two candidates in the running.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Aug 3, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> It's a fucking more desperate right wing policy everyday from these two.  One wonders where we'll get to before the voting deadline.



The following Sunak policy announcements have been leaked to the press:


Resume the 100 year war with France
Bring back tarring and feathering for shoplifters
Flagship 'back to work' indentured servant program
Relocate asylum seekers to Saturn
Reintroduce the ban on maypole dancing


----------



## emanymton (Aug 3, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The following Sunak policy announcements have been leaked to the press:
> 
> 
> Resume the 100 year war with France
> ...


I'm OK with the last one.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Aug 3, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm OK with the last one.



Puritan!


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 3, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm OK with the last one.


Me too at last a policy we can all support


----------



## belboid (Aug 3, 2022)

Fuck more powers for the state.

Just coat the pole with DMT


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 3, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm OK with the last one.



I'm OK with the first one.

The tricky part will be getting the French to last even 100 minutes without surrendering.


----------



## Smangus (Aug 3, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'm OK with the first one.
> 
> The tricky part will be getting the French to last even 100 minutes without surrendering.



Our Army wouldn't make it past the passport checks.


----------



## contadino (Aug 3, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The following Sunak policy announcements have been leaked to the press:
> 
> 
> Resume the 100 year war with France
> ...


I'd best start brushing up on my Russian then.


----------



## bemused (Aug 3, 2022)

I've never met anyone in real life worried about 'woke' - these people are in such a bubble.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 3, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> All part of the same trend.



What a bunch of cunts


----------



## two sheds (Aug 3, 2022)

lucky we're all democratic socialists here then  










/runs and hides


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 3, 2022)




----------



## two sheds (Aug 3, 2022)

jostling for cabinet posts eh


----------



## SysOut (Aug 3, 2022)

Britain "sleepwalking" ...?


----------



## brogdale (Aug 3, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Britain "sleepwalking" ...?



It was the "believes" bit that got me; er, that's exactly what we've got from 12 years of the scum & 3 from Sunak's chancellorship.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 3, 2022)

I’m almost longing for the good old days of David Cameron as prime minister


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 3, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




Sunak is clawing his way back up the polls. If he does overtake Truss it'll be fun watching all those tories who have pledged her their undying fealty explaining that they were misquoted and it is in fact Rishi Sunak's arsehole in which they have resided all along.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 3, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I’m almost longing for the good old days of David Cameron as prime minister


Ah the happy days of the pig-fucker before we all got shafted by him and may and johnson


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 3, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I’m almost longing for the good old days of David Cameron as prime minister



"or chaos with ed milliband"

🐷


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 3, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> "or chaos with ed milliband"
> 
> 🐷


Couldn’t eat a bacon sandwich and had a big stone. A titan, looking back to the current crop


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 3, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I’m almost longing for the good old days of David Cameron as prime minister


Each one seems more fucking useless than the last, it's quite scary really when you think about it.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 3, 2022)




----------



## wow (Aug 3, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Not too sure about that. They'll somehow accept a rich, elite, power wielding ideologue who is brown or female.  Creating a society that isn't racist or sexist is another matter.


I disagree. I think enough paid-up Conservative Party Members are racist enough to choose the white idealogue over the brown idealogue regardless of policy. Truss’s visual transformation into Thatcher2 is merely reinforcing the decision they are already being force-fed from their comfort medium of choice.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 4, 2022)

wow said:


> I disagree. I think enough paid-up Conservative Party Members are racist enough to choose the white idealogue over the brown idealogue regardless of policy. Truss’s visual transformation into Thatcher2 is merely reinforcing the decision they are already being force-fed from their comfort medium of choice.


As has been mentioned many times - look at member's fave kemi badenoch. level of eyeswivel  trumps ethnic back ground.


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 4, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> As has been mentioned many times - look at member's fave kemi badenoch. level of eyeswivel  trumps ethnic back ground.



Maybe it's even an advantage. "The fact I hate woke stuff and we have anti-woke policies can't be racist because look at our leader"


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 4, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The following Sunak policy announcements have been leaked to the press:
> 
> 
> Resume the 100 year war with France
> ...



Rishi Sunak considers compensation for people hit by hosepipe ban


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 4, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Rishi Sunak considers compensation for people hit by hosepipe ban | ITV News




Fucks sake.


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 4, 2022)

Do you suppose they have an actual income amount in mind where bunging money becomes acceptable? Must have assets including a large enough garden that the cost of reseeding it after a drought is mentioned at dinner ...


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 4, 2022)




----------



## andysays (Aug 4, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Rishi Sunak considers compensation for people hit by hosepipe ban


Not read the detail of that, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me that water companies should be expected to compensate water consumers for their failure to supply water in adequate quantities, especially given the ridiculous amount of water wasted and lost to the system through leaks.


----------



## contadino (Aug 4, 2022)

andysays said:


> Not read the detail of that, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me that water companies should be expected to compensate water consumers for their failure to supply water in adequate quantities, especially given the ridiculous amount of water wasted and lost to the system through leaks.


Totally agree. If a shop can't fill it's shelves, customers aren't expected to pay for what they can't buy. If a water company can't fill it's pipes, we're still expected to pay, and as it's still a monopoly market we can't shop elsewhere. Either the skid marks are all for the free market, or they're not. They can't have it both ways.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 4, 2022)

contadino said:


> They can't have it both ways.


Try telling them that.


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 4, 2022)

andysays said:


> Not read the detail of that, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me that water companies should be expected to compensate water consumers for their failure to supply water in adequate quantities, especially given the ridiculous amount of water wasted and lost to the system through leaks.



OFWAT already fines companies for leaks and returns the money to customers. Maybe it needs to do this more, but linking financial penalties to hosepipe bans instead of leaks is just ridiculous.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



it gets worse: from the sun

here's a handy hint, if you ever find therese coffey is one of your key allies you're doing something really badly wrong


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




That’s not new, it’s copied and pasted from The Sun.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 4, 2022)

All three great offices of state occupied by people of colour with a third female PM feels like something Truss would do purely to throw it back in Labours face that Tories party of equal opportunity / meritocracy etc


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> All three great offices of state occupied by people of colour with a third female PM feels like something Truss would do purely to throw it back in Labours face that Tories party of equal opportunity / meritocracy etc


yeh the tories are doing a great job of equal ops for everyone else. anyone who climbs to the top of their slimy ladder has done so by being more of a wanker than their fellow politicians.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




If Badenoch becomes education secretary I'm leaving the teaching profession. We've got enough to deal with without some loon telling us we can no longer talk to kids about anything woke like history or science.


----------



## andysays (Aug 4, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> OFWAT already fines companies for leaks and returns the money to customers. Maybe it needs to do this more, but linking financial penalties to hosepipe bans instead of leaks is just ridiculous.


I don’t agree that it's ridiculous.

I pay water rates not just for my home supply, but also for the water supply at my allotment.

The supply there has already been affected by the water pressure being significantly reduced to reduce leakage on the system, but if I'm going to be told I can't water my crops effectively or adequetely, then I'm not sure why I should pay for a supply I can't actually use.

None of which means I support Sunak, to get back to the subject of the thread.


----------



## contadino (Aug 4, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> OFWAT already fines companies for leaks and returns the money to customers. Maybe it needs to do this more, but linking financial penalties to hosepipe bans instead of leaks is just ridiculous.


So you're not wholy in favour of water companies investing in new infrastructure then? Just repair what you've got, and do nothing to react to increased flood or drought risks?

Don't get me wrong. I agree, but I also think they shouldn't be run as private companies either.


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 4, 2022)

andysays said:


> I don’t agree that it's ridiculous.
> 
> I pay water rates not just for my home supply, but also for the water supply at my allotment.
> 
> The supply there has already been affected by the water pressure being significantly reduced to reduce leakage on the system, but if I'm going to be told I can't water my crops effectively or adequetely, then I'm not sure why I should pay for a supply I can't actually use.



Most people are metered, so anyone prevented from using a hosepipe won’t pay for that water.


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 4, 2022)

contadino said:


> So you're not wholy in favour of water companies investing in new infrastructure then? Just repair what you've got, and do nothing to react to increased flood or drought risks?
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I agree, but I also think they shouldn't be run as private companies either.



Surely the proposal would incentivise water companies not to introduce hosepipe bans, rather than incentivising them to invest against leaks. There are various ways they could achieve the former without doing the latter, so the incentive is perverse. There are already mechanisms to directly incentivise them to repair and invest, these just need to be used more often and more stringently.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 4, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Rishi Sunak considers compensation for people hit by hosepipe ban


Fuck me, that's actually genuine!  Next thing will be compo for anyone caught driving home pissed from the golf club.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 4, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Fuck me, that's actually genuine!  Next thing will be compo for anyone caught driving home pissed from the golf club.


... oh, I misread that. Thought he was wanting to compensate people _fined _for hosepipe use.  Still, when you live in a loonocracy, everything is possible.

In fact I'd better shut up, he'll be picking that up as an actual policy.


----------



## andysays (Aug 4, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Most people are metered, so anyone prevented from using a hosepipe won’t pay for that water.



Most people may be metered (though I'd be interested in seeing the figures), but that still leaves many who are not, including me and everyone else at my allotment, who pay a fixed annual charge for water.

I guess this means you'll be supporting Liz Truss, who has suggested that one of her first acts as PM would be to temporary scrap the green levy, which helps fund a range of environmental policies.


----------



## A380 (Aug 4, 2022)

prunus said:


> I see disappointment in all our futures.


No, you can't be disappointed if you have no hope to start off with...


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 4, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> If Badenoch becomes education secretary I'm leaving the teaching profession. We've got enough to deal with without some loon telling us we can no longer talk to kids about anything woke like history or science.


Patel to Braverman....knightmare takes racist...checkmate


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 4, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> If Badenoch becomes education secretary I'm leaving the teaching profession. We've got enough to deal with without some loon telling us we can no longer talk to kids about anything woke like history or science.



Birbalsingh will be advising so I’m sorry


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 4, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 4, 2022)




----------



## xenon (Aug 4, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> OFWAT already fines companies for leaks and returns the money to customers. Maybe it needs to do this more, but linking financial penalties to hosepipe bans instead of leaks is just ridiculous.



I agree. Throw few of the CEOs in prison. Not for hosepipe bands. For the sewage and the repairs gone and done. Obviously renationalise water goes without saying.


----------



## xenon (Aug 4, 2022)

Actually no I take that back. Drown them in raw sewage. Make an example.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




Bet she's taken an E.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



voted to starve children


----------



## existentialist (Aug 4, 2022)

Wilf said:


> ... oh, I misread that. Thought he was wanting to compensate people _fined _for hosepipe use.  Still, when you live in a loonocracy, everything is possible.
> 
> In fact I'd better shut up, he'll be picking that up as an actual policy.


Hosepipe bans == wokeness


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 4, 2022)




----------



## sheothebudworths (Aug 4, 2022)

I am (for some reason) watching the Sky leadership debate...

Recently graduated Jude from Chippenham wants to know how Truss will 'solve the housing crisis' - on the basis that he had, 'perhaps naively', assumed that when he moved to London, to take up his new job as a commercial lawyer, it would 'make sense' for him to buy instead of renting only to discover that the cost of a deposit on a starter home ruled that out - what will she do to make it easier for young people to own their own home?

Crying for Jude, rn.


----------



## wow (Aug 5, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> As has been mentioned many times - look at member's fave kemi badenoch. level of eyeswivel  trumps ethnic back ground.





platinumsage said:


> Maybe it's even an advantage. "The fact I hate woke stuff and we have anti-woke policies can't be racist because look at our leader"


Lol 🤣


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Aug 5, 2022)

Saying the quiet part out loud


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 5, 2022)




----------



## two sheds (Aug 5, 2022)

Funding disproportionately goes to wealthy tory councils anyway


----------



## magneze (Aug 5, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Saying the quiet part out loud



FFS


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 5, 2022)

levelling up?   my arse


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



the lady is for turning


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2022)

If Labour had any sense they'd be loading that admission of Tory mendacity onto a projector and sound system to blast out in every former red wall town centre in the country for the next two years. Starmer on the other hand will no doubt be telling Andrew Marr "well the old formula _was_ a bit unfair" in short order.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 5, 2022)

They'd be arrested under the new legislation wouldn't they?


----------



## Petcha (Aug 5, 2022)

That rishi thing is astonishing. I mean we could blame such gaffes from Boris on being pissed most of the time but this guy is pleased to remind us he's teetotal. That's it for him then.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> That rishi thing is astonishing. I mean we could blame such gaffes from Boris on being pissed most of the time but this guy is pleased to remind us he's teetotal. That's it for him then.


he'll turn to drink after the reaction to his gaffe


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Aug 5, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> If Labour had any sense they'd be loading that admission of Tory mendacity onto a projector and sound system to blast out in every former red wall town centre in the country for the next two years. Starmer on the other hand will no doubt be telling Andrew Marr "well the old formula _was_ a bit unfair" in short order.



"What do you think of Sunak's admission of robbing from the poor to give to the rich?"

"Well Andrew I want to make it absolutely clear that under my leadership Labour remains resolute in its commitment to the UK's membership of NATO and will be a friend of business, working together to get the economy going again."


----------



## eatmorecheese (Aug 5, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Saying the quiet part out loud



This is the first bit of honesty from any of this shower for ages.

I know he was playing to Blue Kent, but didn't he think a microphone might be around?

Candid, frank and spectacularly suicidal


----------



## magneze (Aug 5, 2022)

eatmorecheese said:


> This is the first bit of honesty from any of this shower for ages.
> 
> I know he was playing to Blue Kent, but didn't he think a microphone might be around?
> 
> Candid, frank and spectacularly suicidal


He was holding the microphone 🤪


----------



## donkyboy (Aug 5, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Saying the quiet part out loud




Oh dear. Things going from bad to worse for Dishy Rishi.


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2022)

I suppose he should be called Redistri-rishi now.


----------



## magneze (Aug 5, 2022)

He's finished now. Entirely, as a politician, I'd have thought.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 5, 2022)

magneze said:


> He's finished now. Entirely, as a politician, I'd have thought.




Tempting but given that we’ve had the dregs of dregs bumbling around cabinet for 10 years and Boris as PM I’m not sure there’s anywhere low enough that’ll sink British politicians forever


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Tempting but given that we’ve had the dregs of dregs bumbling around cabinet for 10 years and Boris as PM I’m not sure there’s anywhere low enough that’ll sink British politicians forever


Raise the titanic, install the current mps and Lords, and let it sink back down again


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




_Show me someone who has the same views a 19 and 49. _

How about someone who has different views at breakfast and teatime? How about someone who just says things entirely at random because they're a halfwit capable of little else?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Saying the quiet part out loud




He's even lying about having 'started that work'. Osbourne started it. Austerity was always calibrated to hit deprived cities hardest and leave shire towns relatively unscathed.


----------



## agricola (Aug 5, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Saying the quiet part out loud




There are very few things that show the spinelessness of the British media better than this.  I mean its not as if that was blatantly obvious from watching what they were actually doing over the past few years.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2022)

agricola said:


> There are very few things that show the spinelessness of the British media better than this.  I mean its not as if that was blatantly obvious from watching what they were actually doing over the past few years.



Not like the level of government funding for local authorities is something you can just look up in five minutes though is it?

Oh wait no, it's exactly like that.


----------



## agricola (Aug 5, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not like the level of government funding for local authorities is something you can just look up in five minutes though is it?
> 
> Oh wait no, it's exactly like that.



they even threatened rebel Tory MPs that the Towns Fund money would be taken off them late last year


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2022)

agricola said:


> they even threatened rebel Tory MPs that the Towns Fund money would be taken off them late last year



Why even pretend not to be corrupt when there are no consequences for corruption?

What Johnson actually got nobbled for in the end seems like such an arbitrary thing considering all the stuff he shrugged off. The Pincher thing wasn't really a lapse of standards at all, because there were never any standards in the first place.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 5, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> _Show me someone who has the same views a 19 and 49. _


* raises hand *

The details might have changed a little, but they're still basically the same. I hated the tories then, and I hate the tories now.


----------



## stavros (Aug 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> That rishi thing is astonishing. I mean we could blame such gaffes from Boris on being pissed most of the time but this guy is pleased to remind us he's teetotal.


Donald Trump is also teetotal.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2022)

stavros said:


> Donald Trump is also teetotal.



And Putin.

I'll tell you who liked a drink though. Jesus. Blood alcohol so high he could pass the stuff off as wine.


----------



## marty21 (Aug 5, 2022)

This leadership campaign is endless 🤣 it seems to have moved into a phase of both candidates saying how shit it has been under the Tories (ignoring their contributions to the shit) & asking Tories to vote for more of the shit.


----------



## Supine (Aug 5, 2022)

marty21 said:


> This leadership campaign is endless 🤣 it seems to have moved into a phase of both candidates saying how shit it has been under the Tories (ignoring their contributions to the shit) & asking Tories to vote for more of the shit.



Tbf - they do have different ideas about how to make it shitter


----------



## stavros (Aug 5, 2022)

marty21 said:


> This leadership campaign is endless 🤣 it seems to have moved into a phase of both candidates saying how shit it has been under the Tories (ignoring their contributions to the shit) & asking Tories to vote for more of the shit.


It's also not a new idea. Johnson only ever cited December 2019 as the start of Tory rule, ignoring everything else since 2010, including when he was a front bencher.


----------



## stdP (Aug 5, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Funding disproportionately goes to wealthy tory councils anyway



Not sure why they're trying to keep this a secret - shouldn't they be shouting from the rooftops that they'll give local authorities more money as long as they vote Tory? Seems like a sure-fire vote winner to me - vote for blue, more money four you!

TBH it would make things far more efficient if opposition parties were outlawed, then all this petty squabbling could end and everywhere would be able to have the money distributed fairly. All these meanness-testing can't come cheap regardless of whom it's outsourced to.


----------



## magneze (Aug 5, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Tempting but given that we’ve had the dregs of dregs bumbling around cabinet for 10 years and Boris as PM I’m not sure there’s anywhere low enough that’ll sink British politicians forever


Nah. He's toast. Ironically for telling the truth.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 5, 2022)

magneze said:


> Nah. He's toast. Ironically for telling the truth.


Is he, though? It's only 0.3 per cent of the electorate that he's playing to, and he thought it was a good idea to say this to the ones at the event. Why not let the whole lot know via the BBC?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2022)

stdP said:


> Not sure why they're trying to keep this a secret - shouldn't they be shouting from the rooftops that they'll give local authorities more money as long as they vote Tory?



I mean, I know this is a joke but, what's stopping them? Is there a law against pork-barrelling, or just a gentleman's agreement not to get caught doing it?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 5, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I mean, I know this is a joke but, what's stopping them? Is there a law against pork-barrelling, or just a gentleman's agreement not to get caught doing it?



Supposedly there are parliamentary standards and rules against it but it does boil down to pinky swear you’ll not favour anyone or discriminate


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Is he, though? It's only 0.3 per cent of the electorate that he's playing to, and he thought it was a good idea to say this to the ones at the event. Why not let the whole lot know via the BBC?



Yeah the same people who picked Johnson. If anything it might win Sunak a couple of points. Right up until Truss regains tory hearts and minds by biting a kitten's throat out on live TV.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Supposedly there are parliamentary standards and rules against it but it does boil down to pinky swear you’ll not favour anyone or discriminate



Things like the ministerial code that Johnson recently tossed in the shredder?


----------



## stdP (Aug 5, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I mean, I know this is a joke but, what's stopping them? Is there a law against pork-barrelling, or just a gentleman's agreement not to get caught doing it?



I'm trying to look up the precise circumstances and laws. As everyone says, it's been blatantly obvious that this was always the playbook but very rare to see it openly admitted so I merely assume there are laws against it, but I'll not be surprised to hear if they were quietly removed from the books. He mad a mandate donchaknow! Fourteen million voters!

Incidentally, my searches turned up this article from 2004 where Tory Taunton accused Labour of doing the same, via not using current Census data.








						Tories attack 'politically biased' council funding
					

County councils are being short-changed to the tune of "millions" as the government continues to calculate council funding on the basis of information which is more than a decade old, MPs will be told today.




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## RainbowTown (Aug 5, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Saying the quiet part out loud




What else did anyone expect from this Janus-faced opportunist?

He hasn't got any working class friends, remember.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 5, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'll tell you who liked a drink though. Jesus. Blood alcohol so high he could pass the stuff off as wine.



He was a stoner too.  Cool guy.


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 5, 2022)

Rishi Rich is just spouting crap to try and pip Loony Liz to the post as it were because he knows the odds seem to be stacked against him. Should by some miracle he wins his dafter utterances will just get quietly forgotten.
The scary thing is Loony Liz must know she's ahead and is still spouting barmy shit which is rather worrying since it implies she might actually believe it.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 5, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Rishi Rich is just spouting crap to try and pip Loony Liz to the post as it were because he knows the odds seem to be stacked against him. Should by some miracle he wins his dafter utterances will just get quietly forgotten.
> The scary thing is Loony Liz must know she's ahead and is still spouting barmy shit which is rather worrying since it implies she might actually believe it.




I’m not sure she does, she’s just parroting neoliberal buzzwords her neurons fuse together from barely remembered crib notes supplied by advisors


----------



## Spandex (Aug 5, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Saying the quiet part out loud



He's so busy trying to out-cunt the other cunt for the electorate of 200,000 cunts who get to vote in this cunt-off that he forgot the other 46,360,452 people who get to vote in a General election were watching too and most of them aren't cunts. What a massive cunt.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 5, 2022)

Own country!


----------



## existentialist (Aug 5, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Own country!



True colours.

Only trouble is, Tories hate colours.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 6, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Own country!




I'm always intrigued by who politicians mean when they say "people who work hard" or "hard working people".  It's not limited to the Tories.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 6, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I'm always intrigued by who politicians mean when they say "people who work hard" or "hard working people".  It's not limited to the Tories.



“Poverty is a moral failing and solely due to laziness not circumstances or society”


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 6, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I'm always intrigued by who politicians mean when they say "people who work hard" or "hard working people".  It's not limited to the Tories.



Blame Gordon Brown:






						Hardworking families - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## marty21 (Aug 6, 2022)

stdP said:


> Not sure why they're trying to keep this a secret - shouldn't they be shouting from the rooftops that they'll give local authorities more money as long as they vote Tory? Seems like a sure-fire vote winner to me - vote for blue, more money four you!
> 
> TBH it would make things far more efficient if opposition parties were outlawed, then all this petty squabbling could end and everywhere would be able to have the money distributed fairly. All these meanness-testing can't come cheap regardless of whom it's outsourced to.


Not great for the red wall seats or the "levelling up " con.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I'm always intrigued by who politicians mean when they say "people who work hard" or "hard working people".  It's not limited to the Tories.


It's like there should be a prize for working hard. But colleagues who put much more effort than I into the job don't get any more money or extra holiday. All they're likely to get is an earlier grave


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> It's like there should be a prize for working hard. But colleagues who put much more effort than I into the job don't get any more money or extra holiday. All they're likely to get is an earlier grave


And self-respect, of course.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> And self-respect, of course.


It's because I respect myself that I don't waste time and effort going the extra mile for people who don't respect me


----------



## two sheds (Aug 6, 2022)

It's probably NHS staff and carers and cleaners with three jobs that work hardest and she doesn't give a shit about any of them.


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> It's like there should be a prize for working hard. But colleagues who put much more effort than I into the job don't get any more money or extra holiday. All they're likely to get is an earlier grave


There is but there aren't enough to go round. One year at Evil American Megacorp the word came down that due to financial constraints only the top 10% of performers would be eligible for a bonus and the jobs of the bottom 10% were at risk.
They obviously believed that everyone would bust a gut to get into the top 10%, in reality virtually everyone just did the bare minimum to keep themselves out of the bottom 10%.
Productivity actually went down since no-one saw the point in driving themselves for a 1in 10 chance of a bonus.


----------



## planetgeli (Aug 6, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> And self-respect, of course.



Yeah. Um.

I'm sure that's how my dad saw it too (being of a generation that had that 'work ethic', even though he knew, as a Socialist, he was working for capitalism).

I'm sure he went to his early grave at 53 full of self-respect. 

Didn't do his (my) family much good though.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 7, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I'm always intrigued by who politicians mean when they say "people who work hard" or "hard working people".  It's not limited to the Tories.


Buy to let Landlords I expect


----------



## teqniq (Aug 7, 2022)

Sunak vows to crack down on university degrees that do not improve 'earning potential'
					

Tory leadership hopeful Rishi Sunak wants to transform further and higher education in a bid to create parity of esteem between vocational and academic learning.




					news.sky.com
				



Just


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 7, 2022)

No more classics degrees then?


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 7, 2022)

I for one welcome the downgrading of Oxbridge PPE degrees to reflect their actual value to society, and suggest the resulting 100% graduate unemployment rate be remedied by retraining these poor unfortunates as draught excluders.


----------



## A380 (Aug 7, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I'm always intrigued by who politicians mean when they say "people who work hard" or "hard working people".  It's not limited to the Tories.


But then I'd rather drink my own piss than vote Tory and I'm a right lazy fucker.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 7, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Sunak vows to crack down on university degrees that do not improve 'earning potential'
> 
> 
> Tory leadership hopeful Rishi Sunak wants to transform further and higher education in a bid to create parity of esteem between vocational and academic learning.
> ...



There should be broad spectrum education but these calls for parity always end up like this;

“Does this mean we’ll fund and advertise vocational education as much as university degrees?”
“No, we’re just not funding universities either now”
“Oh”


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 7, 2022)

Dp


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 7, 2022)

A380 said:


> But then I'd rather drink my own piss than vote Tory and I'm a right lazy fucker.


I'd rather drink your own piss than vote Tory.


----------



## wow (Aug 7, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> It's because I respect myself that I don't waste time and effort going the extra mile for people who don't respect me


Are you deliberately lazy then? Because if you don’t do whatever “extra mile” you disagree with, one of your colleagues will invariably pick up the slack.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2022)

wow said:


> Are you deliberately lazy then? Because if you don’t do whatever “extra mile” you disagree with, one of your colleagues will invariably pick up the slack.


No they won't. You're one of those tiresome characters who thinks they know fucking everything when instead they know fuck all


----------



## Tanya1982 (Aug 7, 2022)

I can't believe how fucking long this nonsense is taking. These people are basically having a game of charades in the middle of a burning building. Endless jolly japes for their own amusement, no evidence of any actual work being done. Months of pissing about. The only positive is that they aren't actively out there, causing the damage they do when they actually show up to 'get on with the job' as they like to phrase their normal activities.


----------



## wow (Aug 7, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> No they won't. You're one of those tiresome characters who thinks they know fucking everything when instead they know fuck all


I’m making an assumption that you’re neither self-employed nor a business owner. That’s a gut feeling, but I’m pretty sure an accurate one.

You don’t seem concerned about being able to pay for your bills or food. So you’re not working minimum wage, or in a zero hours contract. 

At the same time, you’re trying to reinforce your position on this forum by throwing out uncorroborated swears at people who call you out.

You can’t help reacting, so you’re thin skinned as well. No problem, we’ve all got an ego.

My guess is that you were once proud of being a disrupter, a maverick, a force. Maybe you performed an act which you’ll be rightly remembered for. But, it’s difficult to keep that lifestyle up. You need to keep a roof over your head. Eat. Pay bills.

I reckon you’re in your 50’s and once told a copper to fuck off or something, and that’s the extent of your anarchism.

How much of fuck all do I know?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 8, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m making an assumption that you’re neither self-employed nor a business owner. That’s a gut feeling, but I’m pretty sure an accurate one.


Its accurate because you're a returner. 
You know what they do. You know what you're doing. We know what you're doing, and it's fucking tedious.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 8, 2022)

Can't we just ban the boring wanker?


----------



## emanymton (Aug 8, 2022)

SpineyNorman said:


> Can't we just ban the boring wanker?


We need a system were we can suggest people for banning and if gets enough support the mods have to do it. Democracy in action.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m making an assumption that you’re neither self-employed nor a business owner. That’s a gut feeling, but I’m pretty sure an accurate one.
> 
> You don’t seem concerned about being able to pay for your bills or food. So you’re not working minimum wage, or in a zero hours contract.
> 
> ...


The square root of it. You demonstrate how little you know and indeed how abjectly fucking stupid you are - stupider than anyone has any right to be - by your paragraph 2 being contradicted by your 5. only someone truly as thick as pigshit would say in one breath you don't seem to be struggling financially and in the next you're struggling financially.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 8, 2022)

You lousy bums, you and your stinking language, you think I know fuck nothing, well let me tell you— I know FUCK ALL!"


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> You lousy bums, you and your stinking language, you think I know fuck nothing, well let me tell you— I know FUCK ALL!"


Is that from David niven's the moon's a balloon?


----------



## two sheds (Aug 8, 2022)

Close - "Bring on the empty horses"


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Close - "Bring on the empty horses"


Read them both many years ago, should give them another go


----------



## two sheds (Aug 8, 2022)

I just heard about them in a Niven interview, they did sound worth reading.


----------



## tommers (Aug 8, 2022)

These two are rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic whilst asking the crowd what they want the band to play.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2022)

tommers said:


> These two are rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic whilst asking the crowd what they want the band to play.


the only band in the world composed of tone-deaf and musically illiterate musicians who have picked up their instruments for the first time five minutes before the performance


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 8, 2022)




----------



## elbows (Aug 8, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I can't believe how fucking long this nonsense is taking. These people are basically having a game of charades in the middle of a burning building. Endless jolly japes for their own amusement, no evidence of any actual work being done. Months of pissing about. The only positive is that they aren't actively out there, causing the damage they do when they actually show up to 'get on with the job' as they like to phrase their normal activities.


Although it is summer silly season so even if this leadership contest hadnt happened, we'd still be well into the zone of less happening within the walls of power.

And yes this stuff is annoying even at the best of times, let alone when it happens during a time of instability and woe. The season when political own goals usually happen if a minister is too slow to come back from holiday if an acute crisis erupts.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



File under things that won't happen.

Along with your big box of printouts wasting massive amounts of paper when you could just read them off a screen. 

Trade War ahoy!


----------



## two sheds (Aug 8, 2022)

Didn't watch it all but I hope he realizes those aren't the only copies of those documents.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>





“And your going to let parliament vote on which to keep right?”

“Oh”


----------



## Tanya1982 (Aug 8, 2022)

tommers said:


> These two are rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic whilst asking the crowd what they want the band to play.



Even worse are all those who've stopped to encourage the spectacle.


Pickman's model said:


> the only band in the world composed of tone-deaf and musically illiterate musicians who have picked up their instruments for the first time five minutes before the performance


And yet, the crowd gathers, telling each other 'aww, give them a chance' and shouting 'play us a tune we can sing along to'. They'll be underwater by the time applause would usually be due, but who cares. By then, the bastards will be in the lifeboats moaning that the provisions aren't up to scratch, while the people who let them get there wonder what the hell happened as hypothermia sets in.


----------



## Lucy Fur (Aug 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Didn't watch it all but I hope he realizes those aren't the only copies of those documents.


Practice run for when the book burning begins


----------



## Tanya1982 (Aug 8, 2022)

elbows said:


> Although it is summer silly season so even if this leadership contest hadnt happened, we'd still be well into the zone of less happening within the walls of power.
> 
> And yes this stuff is annoying even at the best of times, let alone when it happens during a time of instability and woe. The season when political own goals usually happen if a minister is too slow to come back from holiday if an acute crisis erupts.


This lot are never off holiday. BJ was in some borrowed mansion in Mustique when Covid was kicking off, Raab didn't want to be disturbed in Crete when Kabul fell, Priti somehow found herself on a spa break in the Golan Heights with Netanyahu without a clue who he might be, Rishi rides out the winter in Malibu, Geoffrey Cox claims his salary and expenses while sheltering in the Caymans. I suppose it's the brazen entitlement that particularly grates.

Truss herself doesn't need to go away to have a holiday. Every day is a holiday when you can bill the taxpayer for thousands of £ to get drunk at lunchtime. No idea why that story disappeared from view. I've had some serious nights out in my time, but I'd be out cold by 4'o'clock if I'd drunk what she and two or three others managed to put away on a Tuesday afternoon. She's got the nerve to pick on Sunak for buying Prada shoes with his wife's dosh.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Isn't this what Rees-Mogg has been pretending to do? Will we see some salary clawback?


----------



## teuchter (Aug 8, 2022)

I note that the Brexit Delivery Department appears to have been set up in a spare room on a suburban housing estate somewhere.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 8, 2022)

wow said:


> How much of fuck all do I know?


Not enough to shut the fuck up.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 8, 2022)

emanymton said:


> We need a system were we can suggest people for banning and if gets enough support the mods have to do it. Democracy in action.


Pitchforkocracy! I like it.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 8, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> File under things that won't happen.
> 
> Along with your big box of printouts wasting massive amounts of paper when you could just read them off a screen.
> 
> Trade War ahoy!



It will happen. That is, they'll 'review' each bit by checking if we need to keep it to continue to trade with the EU, see that we definitely do, and decide to leave it alone. So five minutes' work, three thousand times...barely a month's work for one person.


----------



## zahir (Aug 8, 2022)

emanymton said:


> We need a system were we can suggest people for banning and if gets enough support the mods have to do it. Democracy in action.





Wilf said:


> Pitchforkocracy! I like it.











						Ostracism - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Wilf (Aug 8, 2022)

zahir said:


> Ostracism - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm so ancient that I was in secondary school just after my comp was formed as a merger between the sec modern and grammar school.  We inherited a Latin teacher and I did it for 12 months before we retired him.   Just about the only thing I remember from that 12 months was the pottery thing.  As you might guess, I am not the proud owner of a Latin O Level.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 8, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I'm so ancient that I was in secondary school just after my comp was formed as a merger between the sec modern and grammar school.  We inherited a Latin teacher and I did it for 12 months before we retired him.   Just about the only thing I remember from that 12 months was the pottery thing.  As you might guess, I am not the proud owner of a Latin O Level.



Ostracism is more famous as being part of Athenian democracy so this explains why you fudged the O-Level.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 8, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Ostracism is more famous as being part of Athenian democracy so this explains why you fudged the O-Level.


I, hazily, remember it coming up when he booted one of us out of the class.  He must have grasping wildly around the ancient world for a justification.  Having said that, he was a director of Bury FC, so must have been used to disappointment.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 8, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> It will happen. That is, they'll 'review' each bit by checking if we need to keep it to continue to trade with the EU, see that we definitely do, and decide to leave it alone. So five minutes' work, three thousand times...barely a month's work for one person.


I meant, Rishi won't be doing it. Since he will not be emperor


----------



## Wilf (Aug 8, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Ostracism is more famous as being part of Athenian democracy so this explains why you fudged the O-Level.


By the way, I did briefly consider going down the _'Latin, it's all Greek to me_' road. That I didn't speaks volumes as to the nobility of my character.


----------



## Duncan2 (Aug 8, 2022)

Our Latin teacher despite looking a lot like Bernard Breslaw wasn't exactly a barrel of laughs.One year into the O levels he won the lottery and buggered off .I switched to biology which proved not to be a great idea.


----------



## wow (Aug 8, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> The square root of it. You demonstrate how little you know and indeed how abjectly fucking stupid you are - stupider than anyone has any right to be - by your paragraph 2 being contradicted by your 5. only someone truly as thick as pigshit would say in one breath you don't seem to be struggling financially and in the next you're struggling financially.


I think I touched a nerve by suggesting you’re “not poor” in paragraph 2?

The thing about keeping a roof over your head was a metaphor you missed in your indignation: that of maintaining your reputation here as a working class hero, despite the fact you’re clearly a middle class normal.

Also, check your language, Pickman's model. Don’t talk to me like that again.


----------



## wow (Aug 8, 2022)

emanymton said:


> We need a system were we can suggest people for banning and if gets enough support the mods have to do it. Democracy in action.


That’s not democracy.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 8, 2022)

wow said:


> That’s not democracy.


It's immigration control.


----------



## wow (Aug 8, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Its accurate because you're a returner.
> You know what they do. You know what you're doing. We know what you're doing, and it's fucking tedious.


Nup. I figured it out based on previous encounters in this thread. Prescience was not required. 

All I hear is: “returner”, “returning after getting banned”, “you’re banned”. 

One: it sounds like you want your banned members to stay banned. 

Two: it looks like you can’t control whether your banned members return. 

Three: Because you can’t stop them, you have collectively become hypersensitive to certain words, phrases, characteristics or behaviours and assume they belong to “returners”.  

Sometimes a new arsehole is just a new arsehole.


----------



## wow (Aug 8, 2022)

Raheem said:


> It's immigration control.


You alright with that?


----------



## Raheem (Aug 8, 2022)

wow said:


> You alright with that?


I'd favour a skills-based assessment.


----------



## wow (Aug 8, 2022)

Raheem said:


> I'd favour a skills-based assessment.


Me too, in principle. Depends on the skills.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 9, 2022)

wow said:


> uncorroborated swears


I'm wondering what these are.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 9, 2022)

wow said:


> Nup. I figured it out based on previous encounters in this thread. Prescience was not required.
> 
> All I hear is: “returner”, “returning after getting banned”, “you’re banned”.
> 
> ...


Thing is, you're not just a twat. You're a verbose, boring twat. And if you're a returner (which you clearly are), you're a serial verbose, boring twat.

Time to reassess life choices?


----------



## Ming (Aug 9, 2022)

So much talent It takes your breath away.


----------



## A380 (Aug 9, 2022)

Ming said:


> So much talent It takes your breath away.



It’s going to be the biggest train crash in the history of train crashes every week when she’s PM isn’t it.


----------



## Ming (Aug 9, 2022)

A380 said:


> It’s going to be the biggest train crash in the history of train crashes every week when she’s PM isn’t it.


I know. She’s inept. And dishonest. I don’t think i hate her as much as Thatcher because she did way more damage. Truss is one of Thatcher’s insane children playing in the ongoing wreck of a nation.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 9, 2022)

Fucking hell the eyes at 0:20 

eta and 1:34  and the rest

and his at 5:19


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Aug 9, 2022)

wow said:


> Are you deliberately lazy then? Because if you don’t do whatever “extra mile” you disagree with, one of your colleagues will invariably pick up the slack.



You obviously don't know what 'going the extra mile' means, because if you did you would realise that what you have written doesn't  make sense.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Aug 9, 2022)

wow said:


> I’m making an assumption that you’re neither self-employed nor a business owner. That’s a gut feeling...



What does your gut tell you about the self employed  and business owners?

Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2022)

wow said:


> I think I touched a nerve by suggesting you’re “not poor” in paragraph 2?
> 
> The thing about keeping a roof over your head was a metaphor you missed in your indignation: that of maintaining your reputation here as a working class hero, despite the fact you’re clearly a middle class normal.
> 
> Also, check your language, Pickman's model. Don’t talk to me like that again.


You've been round this course before I think, and if I was a betting man I'd lay a fiver on you being that prize arse Spanner. You've yet to give me a reason to speak nicely to you, don't think such a reason exists. You are after all not a pocket sherlock holmes but a poundshop cressida dick in the ratiocination stakes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2022)

A380 said:


> It’s going to be the biggest train crash in the history of train crashes every week when she’s PM isn’t it.


Every week?  every day


----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 9, 2022)

A380 said:


> It’s going to be the biggest train crash in the history of train crashes every week when she’s PM isn’t it.


To continue the metaphor, the country has just passed a signal at Danger and she and her SPADs are saying more speed.

🧥


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 9, 2022)

A380 said:


> It’s going to be the biggest train crash in the history of train crashes every week when she’s PM isn’t it.



It won't take a week.

Once elected I imagine her first step will be to announce the cabinet. Her second will be an emergency economic statement announcing corporation tax cuts, the reversal of the NIC increase and suspending ‘green levies’. Economists will note that a significant transfer of money has taken place from the state to the rich. At the same time energy hikes will be 4 weeks away. Things get smashed to pieces in a train wreck, let's hope the working class recreate those effects...and follow it up with mass non-payment of gas bills.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 9, 2022)

Agree with that, although mass non payment is likely to be followed up by mass prosecutions of non payers


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Agree with that, although mass non payment is likely to be followed up by mass prosecutions of non payers



Possibly. The state went down that road with the Poll Tax and got badly defeated. It depends on how successful the non-payment campaign is and, critcally, how we defend the first people dragged before the magistrates. I would also note that the court system is on the verge of collapse and that Truss's 'efficiency savings' will cut more staff and close more courts. Does the state even has the capacity to operate mass prosecutions?

Fundamentally, if the working class understand the energy price rises in moral economy terms - and I believe that is the case - then whatever the state does there will be mass non-payment and community action to keep the state out.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Agree with that, although mass non payment is likely to be followed up by mass prosecutions of non payers



Starmer's got experience in setting up kangaroo courts, they should get him on board.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I would also note that the court system is on the verge of collapse and that Truss's 'efficiency savings' will cut more staff and close more courts. Does the state even has the capacity to operate mass prosecutions?



No, and what's more Truss and Sunak are both too dim and too isolated from reality to understand that. They're both acting like they have zero awareness of exactly how many existential crises are piling up.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

Dp


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> No, and what's more Truss and Sunak are both too dim and too isolated from reality to understand that. They're both acting like they have zero awareness of exactly how many existential crises are piling up.



They'll soon find out...


----------



## A380 (Aug 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> No, and what's more Truss and Sunak are both too dim and too isolated from reality to understand that. They're both acting like they have zero awareness of exactly how many existential crises are piling up.


Sunak isn't dim. He's lots of other things mind, but not that. Don't under rate your enemies, it never ends well.


----------



## hegley (Aug 9, 2022)

Lord help us ...


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 9, 2022)

hegley said:


> Lord help us ...



The old guy with the shades on thinks he's Peter Hitchens


----------



## Yossarian (Aug 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> They're both acting like they have zero awareness of exactly how many existential crises are piling up.



They're probably positioning themselves to act surprised by the mess left behind by the previous government due to problems they couldn't possibly have known about in their lowly role as chancellor/foreign secretary.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 9, 2022)

hegley said:


> Lord help us ...



I know there's a lot to be said for knowing thine enemy but I could only stand that for a few seconds. Fuck them all.


----------



## xenon (Aug 9, 2022)

Conservative party are anti establishment? 

Fucking morons.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 9, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> They're probably positioning themselves to act surprised by the mess left behind by the Labour previous government due to problems they couldn't possibly have known about in their lowly role as chancellor/foreign secretary.


cfu


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 9, 2022)

I'm more worried about that Patrick Bateman guy.

(also though "I go for stability" lol)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 9, 2022)

xenon said:


> Conservative party are anti establishment?
> 
> Fucking morons.


I've not watched, and won't, but I'm guessing that the establishment is run by Cultural Marxists.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I've not watched, and won't, but I'm guessing that the establishment is run by Cultural Marxists.


they get bloody everywhere


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 9, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I've not watched, and won't, but I'm guessing that the establishment is run by Cultural Marxists.


I have watched it and can assure you that you're spot on.
TBF though with this sort of thing we don't know how many people he interviewed. There is a tendency to select the nuttiest on the grounds they're more entertaining.
Bit like Britain's Got No Talent where they let through some no-hopers knowing Cowell is going to  belittle them.


----------



## Fez909 (Aug 9, 2022)

A 'ballot' in a coffee shop in Middlesbrough


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> They're probably positioning themselves to act surprised by the mess left behind by the previous government due to problems they couldn't possibly have known about in their lowly role as chancellor/foreign secretary.



Not sure that's going to wash, given how hyperaware of all this stuff the average punter is right now.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

hegley said:


> Lord help us ...




The socialist left wing dogma we're having shoved down our throats all the time, like (glances at a newspaper) _let's shove all the immigrants into the sea. _


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 9, 2022)

hegley said:


> Lord help us ...



How staggeringly depressing and predictable.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 9, 2022)

teqniq said:


> I know there's a lot to be said for knowing thine enemy but I could only stand that for a few seconds. Fuck them all.


I toughed it out for a bit longer but didnt make it all the way. They do contradict each other, which is fun to see


----------



## kabbes (Aug 9, 2022)

There’s a hint in those interviews of why Starmer’s approach is doomed. If you’re deluded enough to buy into the idea that left liberals run the establishment and that conservatism represents stability and sensibleness, you’re always going to vote Tory, regardless of Kieth’s attempts to suck up to you.


----------



## elbows (Aug 9, 2022)

Reality threatening to break through onto certain newspaper front pages.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 9, 2022)

Why is Sunak still pretending he can win? To what end?


----------



## elbows (Aug 9, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Why is Sunak still pretending he can win? To what end?


No hopers are expected the maintain the illusion of hope and competition until the bitter end. Especially in this particular leadership contest where the candidates were supposed to give assurances that they wouldnt drop out prematurely before the membership had their say.

They can also hang on with hope just in case momentum shifts as a result of some huge clangers being dropped by their opponent. Truss has plenty of clanger potential, although it will be hard for even her level of incompetence to compensate for Sunaks unpopularity.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 9, 2022)

Is Sunak hoping his furlough/cost of living package bona fides will help him? That puts him directly at odds with the ideology of the cranks now in charge of the Tory party.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Why is Sunak still pretending he can win? To what end?


sunak believes, as general melchett says in blackadder, that a blind refusal to look facts in the face will see him through


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2022)

elbows said:


> No hopers are expected the maintain the illusion of hope and competition until the bitter end. Especially in this particular leadership contest where the candidates were supposed to give assurances that they wouldnt drop out prematurely before the membership had their say.
> 
> They can also hang on with hope just in case momentum shifts as a result of some huge clangers being dropped by their opponent. Truss has plenty of clanger potential, although it will be hard for even her level of incompetence to compensate for Sunaks unpopularity.


might also be angling for a cabinet post in her government, and the better he does in the poll the more weight any claim he might have would be.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 9, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Is Sunak hoping his furlough/cost of living package bona fides will help him? That puts him directly at odds with the ideology of the cranks now in charge of the Tory party.


I’m waiting for furlough to be decried as woke


----------



## contadino (Aug 9, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Why is Sunak still pretending he can win? To what end?


So that we can all see that tories rather voted for an absolute vacuum than for someone non-white.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 9, 2022)




----------



## contadino (Aug 9, 2022)

"...so dense that light bends around her..."


----------



## two sheds (Aug 9, 2022)

The addressing climate change by recycling sounds half familiar although not surprising. Couldn't see that but did note: 









						Liz Truss Used To Think Public Sector Workers Should Travel Economy To Save Money
					

The foreign secretary has been criticised for taking a £500,000 private government jet to Australia.




					www.huffingtonpost.co.uk


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 9, 2022)

The front page/headline of the Daily Express today is quite something. It actually made me laugh out loud in the supermarket just now. Amazing.


----------



## Sue (Aug 9, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> sunak believes, as general melchett says in blackadder, that a blind refusal to look facts in the face will see him through


Whereas Truss... 

Oh.


----------



## killer b (Aug 9, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


>



it's pretty funny, but doesn't seem to exist on the PNG Courier's website so suspect it's not really an article in the PNG Courier


----------



## killer b (Aug 9, 2022)

ah, it seems to be a regular bit by that Secret Tory twitter account


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> (also though "I go for stability" lol)



Half expected to see a petrol bomb fly past his head or something as he said that.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Aug 9, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Why is Sunak still pretending he can win? To what end?


 to be next but one leader?

Truss is going to be tempted to call an election at the end of September on the assumption that it´s all about the economy, and even stupid people must see that the economy will be looking pretty grim for a 2024 election. Rishi will be waiting for her to crash and burn. Who else do they have with even half a brain?


----------



## killer b (Aug 9, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Truss is going to be tempted to call an election at the end of September


Why would she be tempted to do this?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> to be next but one leader?
> 
> Truss is going to be tempted to call an election at the end of September on the assumption that it´s all about the economy, and even stupid people must see that the economy will be looking pretty grim for a 2024 election. Rishi will be waiting for her to crash and burn. Who else do they have with even half a brain?


compared to la Truss iain Duncan Smith seems a positive genius


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 9, 2022)

killer b said:


> Why would she be tempted to do this?



It is a day with a Y and Twitter says the government with 2 years left and an 80 seat majority will call an election.

I'll believe it when it happens and not before.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Aug 9, 2022)

killer b said:


> Why would she be tempted to do this?


she might hope to get an initial bounce in the polls...she can be optimistic about how much cutting corpoarate taxes and taxes for the rich will help the poor find shillings to stick in the gas meter this winter... the economic outlook for the UK for the next 18 months is horrible...and her stock in trade is alienating the relationship with the EU...which will make things even worse.

I´m glad I´m well away from it all, to be honest.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Aug 9, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> I'll believe it when it happens and not before.


I agree, but it´s possible. 

I think 2024 would be best for Labour...if the EU is recovering significantly faster than the UK, then looking at a Norway type arrangment with the EU might start looking palatable to 60% of the population. Starmer´s current attempt to be pragmatic about this is uncomfortable....time wil tell if a pivot seems like it´s going to be a goer.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Aug 9, 2022)

anyway, I have more important elections to worry about with Bolsonaro vs Lula in October. I need to have bags packed in case there is a military coup.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> to be next but one leader?
> 
> Truss is going to be tempted to call an election at the end of September on the assumption that it´s all about the economy, and even stupid people must see that the economy will be looking pretty grim for a 2024 election. Rishi will be waiting for her to crash and burn. Who else do they have with even half a brain?



This makes sense in theory, but I fear Liz Truss represents a new low for stupidity. I don't think she knows what she's going to say from one sentence to the next, and I'm not sure you can predict the actions of a person like that based on real information from the real world. Same reason you can't predict a pigeon's next chess move.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> This makes sense in theory, but I fear Liz Truss represents a new low for stupidity. I don't think she knows what she's going to say from one sentence to the next, and I'm not sure you can predict the actions of a person like that based on real information from the real world. Same reason you can't predict a pigeon's next chess move.


Pigeons very predictable at backgammon tho


----------



## kabbes (Aug 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Same reason you can't predict a pigeon's next chess move.


Rook takes prawn.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> This makes sense in theory, but I fear Liz Truss represents a new low for stupidity. I don't think she knows what she's going to say from one sentence to the next, and I'm not sure you can predict the actions of a person like that based on real information from the real world. Same reason you can't predict a pigeon's next chess move.


But seriously I think she could embroil us in all manner of conflicts cold and possibly hot. She thinks she's thatcher but she's not got any of thatcher's actual nous, like the way thatcher kept people from other wings of the party in the cabinet, the notorious wets. She wouldn't do the planning for something like the miners strike. I doubt she'll raise cop pay, tho that was an early move of thatcher's. Margaret thatcher at least had a brain on her shoulders. David willetts was known as two brains. Truss will be known as no brain. And remarkably stupid people are far more dangerous when elevated to positions of power as they're not intelligent enough to seek advice


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 9, 2022)

I commented on here years ago that truss came across as a rather confused and unhappy cult member and publicly called for her to jump ship for the sake of her own sanity. She’s beyond hope now - it’s all downhill from here Liz. You poltroon


----------



## JimW (Aug 9, 2022)

killer b said:


> ah, it seems to be a regular bit by that Secret Tory twitter account


Is it not Private Eye? They used to have a column of that name.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 9, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It is a day with a Y and Twitter says the government with 2 years left and an 80 seat majority will call an election.
> 
> I'll believe it when it happens and not before.


I'm not sure I'd believe it even then


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> I commented on here years ago that truss came across as a rather confused and unhappy cult member and publicly called for her to jump ship for the sake of her own sanity. She’s beyond hope now - it’s all downhill from here Liz. You poltroon



You could almost feel sorry for her.

If she wasn't so radioactively awful.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 9, 2022)

Wits going to be like Jonestown in the truss cabinet.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

The only person currently looking smart is Raab, who has apparently clocked that Truss will be a catastrophe and is positioning himself for the next go round instead.

And if Dominic Raab is the smartest person in the room...


----------



## killer b (Aug 9, 2022)

JimW said:


> Is it not Private Eye? They used to have a column of that name.


as it happens there's a tweet from the Secret Tory account mocking the PE for complaining about being ripped of by the PNG courier (although this could also be a mock up, who knows?)


----------



## JimW (Aug 9, 2022)

killer b said:


> as it happens there's a tweet from the Secret Tory account mocking the PE for complaining about being ripped of by the PNG courier (although this could also be a mock up, who knows?)



The plot thickens, but still not as thick as... etc etc


----------



## Wilf (Aug 9, 2022)

Truss won't entertain an election this year, far too worried about the cost of living stuff. Same time, she'll be astonishingly grateful that kieth has managed to get Labour's leads down to mid single figures.  With Labour unable to launch a coherent sentence or establish any kind of identity, she might see an opportunity any time Spring onwards.  Suspect she _won't _and that things will be so grim that even Labour won't be able to avoid staying in the lead.  Anyway, my point is that Labour's shitness means it will be a decision largely in her own hands.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 9, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Why is Sunak still pretending he can win? To what end?


Every day he's on the TV, the front pages of newspapers, and thousands of Twitter threads.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Every day he's on the TV, the front pages of newspapers, and thousands of Twitter threads.


He should be down the Mariana trench because I'm sure deep down he's a good person


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Aug 9, 2022)




----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 9, 2022)

wow said:


> I think I touched a nerve by suggesting you’re “not poor” in paragraph 2?
> 
> The thing about keeping a roof over your head was a metaphor you missed in your indignation: that of maintaining your reputation here as a working class hero, despite the fact you’re clearly a middle class normal.
> 
> Also, check your language, Pickman's model. *Don’t talk to me like that again.*



Your hubris is astonishing.


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 9, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> The old guy with the shades on thinks he's Peter Hitchens


"I've had my life, I won't live to see the worst of it, why should I care about the people who will?" Twat.


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 9, 2022)

elbows said:


> Reality threatening to break through onto certain newspaper front pages.
> 
> View attachment 336665
> View attachment 336666


Made up. No way do Liz Truss supporters give one shit about "the most vulnerable."


----------



## two sheds (Aug 9, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> ""I've had my life, I won't live to see the worst of it, why should I care about the people who will?" Twat.


I hope he's got grandchildren who make it their mission to give him shit whenever the chance arises.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 9, 2022)




----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I hope he's got grandchildren who make it their mission to give him shit whenever the chance arises.


Same. Or great nieces/nephews or niblings as the late billriver used to say. 💜

He really needs someone to pull him up on that. That's the epitome of the "I'm alright Jack" boomer, the type who hypocritally complain about benefit claimants and immigrants as projection for their own selfishness.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 9, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 9, 2022)




----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 9, 2022)

Meanwhile boris spitefully gaslights the nation by saying he's absolutely certain his successor will help with the crisis.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



She is the least adept public speaker I've ever heard. It's like she can't even convince herself. 

A life lived in politics with ambition equalled only by mediocrity as she flip flops from one popular opinion to another with no integrity or capability. Can't wait to see her on the world's stage, giving Putin or Victor 'CPAC' Orban a stern ticking off.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 9, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




All the charisma of a follow through.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 9, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> She is the least adept public speaker I've ever heard. It's like she can't even convince herself.
> 
> A life lived in politics with ambition equalled only by mediocrity as she flip flops from one popular opinion to another with no integrity or capability. Can't wait to see her on the world's stage, giving Putin or Victor 'CPAC' Orban a stern ticking off.


Who have you got on your top five of least adept public speakers of all time ?


----------



## xenon (Aug 9, 2022)

Trus makes me think of someone who is into amateur dramatics. But not very good at it. Saying her lines, milking responses. The smug grin in her voice makes me cringe.
Sunac seems perpetually surprised that you might have to talk to ordinary people or ordinary people might listen to him and object at some point. I mean what’s the point of fabulous wealth if you still have to deal with the plebs.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 9, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Who have you got on your top five of least adept public speakers of all time ?





The39thStep said:


> Who have you got on your top five of least adept public speakers of all time ?


C3PO, lex luthor, jet set willy, arthur dent, and ken from Bros


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Not freezing people to death is too woke.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 9, 2022)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 9, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Meanwhile boris spitefully gaslights the nation



I imagine they'd be glad if it's on his tab.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 9, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>




That's not Satan, it's Baphomet.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 9, 2022)

Thought it was Raab.


----------



## wow (Aug 9, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> You've been round this course before I think, and if I was a betting man I'd lay a fiver on you being that prize arse Spanner. You've yet to give me a reason to speak nicely to you, don't think such a reason exists. You are after all not a pocket sherlock holmes but a poundshop cressida dick in the ratiocination stakes.



I tried looking for Spanner, but they were banned and their posts aren’t visible. 

I’m amused about your “…you’ve yet to give me a reason to speak nicely to you”.

I don’t know or care about your reasons. You come across like an arsehole, so that’s how I’m going to talk to you in return.

If you can convince whoever is in charge to ban me, go for it. Looks like you’ve done it before. Looks like you make a habit of it.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 9, 2022)

wow said:


> I tried looking for Spanner, but they were banned and their posts aren’t visible.
> 
> I’m amused about your “…you’ve yet to give me a reason to speak nicely to you”.
> 
> ...



I'm sweating just reading.


----------



## wow (Aug 10, 2022)

Humberto said:


> I'm sweating just reading.


Like a fox hunter outside a rabbit hole?


----------



## Humberto (Aug 10, 2022)

wow said:


> Like a fox hunter outside the rabbit hole?



Sort of. Like Liz Truss's cocaine dealer.


----------



## wow (Aug 10, 2022)

Ok, off-topic.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 10, 2022)

wow said:


> Ok, off-topic.


Liz Truss off topic. Ok.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 10, 2022)

You know they are all full of coke right?


----------



## wow (Aug 10, 2022)

Humberto said:


> You know they are all full of coke right?


Quite frankly, I couldn’t give a toss. In many ways I’d be pissed off if they weren’t.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 10, 2022)

wow said:


> Quite frankly, I couldn’t give a toss. In many ways I’d be pissed off if they weren’t.



You want the government to be fueled by cocaine?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2022)

wow said:


> I tried looking for Spanner, but they were banned and their posts aren’t visible.
> 
> I’m amused about your “…you’ve yet to give me a reason to speak nicely to you”.
> 
> ...


If you just use the search function and pop Spanner in the username box up they all pop. Or if as appears the case that's beyond you here click this link Spanner then click where you see 458. It's bollocks their posts are hidden. You just have all the investigative skills of cressida dick.

Your first address to me was to accuse me of bullying. And not nicely either. As nietzsche said, it is inhuman to bless where one is cursed.

I don't make a habit of getting people banned, if you are it'll be all your own work


----------



## brogdale (Aug 10, 2022)

Coming on here to troll the ‘lefties’ is one thing, but doing so with no wit, wisdom or entertainment value is another.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> That's not Satan, it's Baphomet.


Glad someone's on the ball


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Coming on here to troll the ‘lefties’ is one thing, but doing so with no wit, wisdom or entertainment value is another.



This is the most disappointing aspect of the entire ‘Wow’ jaunt. He started strongly by confidently (and wrongly) twice asserting who would win the Tory leadership. But it’s been boringly downhill all the way from there.

Nothing shows the decline of U75 more than the the quality of the trolls etc etc


----------



## quiet guy (Aug 10, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> All the charisma of a follow through.


But none of the pizzazz


----------



## cloudyday (Aug 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Glad someone's on the baal


fyp


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 10, 2022)

Best and brightest


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Aug 10, 2022)

Cold War Steve


----------



## A380 (Aug 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Glad someone's on the baal


FTFY

ETA beaten to it. Damn.


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 10, 2022)

When they can’t even get support from the Torygraph:









						Britain is breaking down, and the Tories risk irrelevancy
					

Neither Rishi Sunak nor Liz Truss's proposals can save us from our looming crisis




					www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 10, 2022)

What a bellend. 
Rishi Sunak spotted with hole in shoe at North East's Tory hustings | ITV News


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 10, 2022)




----------



## stavros (Aug 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> What a bellend.
> Rishi Sunak spotted with hole in shoe at North East's Tory hustings | ITV News


That doesn't strike me as particularly bellended. Continuing with them if they serve the job seems relatively sensible.

The Express has turned into a self-declared fanzine. Tomorrow we get Diana and Maddie's takes on the contest through a psychic medium.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2022)

stavros said:


> That doesn't strike me as particularly bellended. Continuing with them if they serve the job seems relatively sensible.
> 
> The Express has turned into a self-declared fanzine. Tomorrow we get Diana and Maddie's takes on the contest through a psychic medium.
> 
> View attachment 336895


They'll regret it when she manages to sink the unsinkable aircraft carrier


----------



## agricola (Aug 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> They'll regret it when she manages to sink the unsinkable aircraft carrier



I think you mean that colossal waste of money that New Labour were responsible for with its all-remainer crew of fanatics that hated Britain.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2022)

agricola said:


> I think you mean that colossal waste of money that New Labour were responsible for with its all-remainer crew of fanatics that hated Britain.


No. I mean she'll sink the country. Titanic liz truss they'll call her


----------



## agricola (Aug 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> No. I mean she'll sink the country. Titanic liz truss they'll call her



we'll deserve it too, fully half of us are Remainers


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 10, 2022)

stavros said:


> That doesn't strike me as particularly bellended. Continuing with them if they serve the job seems relatively sensible.


Strange how he suddenly has a fucked pair of shoes after the Prada incident? 
I don't believe he owns shoes with holes and tears in them.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> No. I mean she'll sink the country. Titanic liz truss they'll call her


That and the human hand grenade.


----------



## Spandex (Aug 10, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Damn and blast it, are you a red blooded Englishman or a quivering foreigner? Tis a simple matter to sail down the Nile to Lake Victoria, disembark at Ruiga Bay and a pleasant 50 mile safari through Biharamulo to reach Rwanda. If the Egyptians, Sudanese or Ugandans give us any bother, we'll show 'em the spirit of General Gordon and Lord Lugard.

God save the Queen!


----------



## brogdale (Aug 10, 2022)

agricola said:


> we'll deserve it too, fully half of us are Remainers


Only 35% of the electorate.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2022)

Spandex said:


> Damn and blast it, are you a red blooded Englishman or a quivering foreigner? Tis a simple matter to sail down the Nile to Lake Victoria, disembark at Ruiga Bay and a pleasant 50 mile safari through Biharamulo to reach Rwanda. If the Egyptians, Sudanese or Ugandans give us any bother, we'll show 'em the spirit of General Gordon and Lord Lugard.
> 
> God save the Queen!


There's the August post of the month sorted


----------



## not a trot (Aug 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Strange how he suddenly has a fucked pair of shoes after the Prada incident?
> I don't believe he owns shoes with holes and tears in them.



He can borrow my trusty pair of  tatty M & S slippers if he wants. I walk the dog in them, pop to the shops, amble around the garden. He'll have to be a size six though.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> That and the human hand grenade.


That rabbit's dynamite.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 10, 2022)




----------



## Elpenor (Aug 10, 2022)

stavros said:


> That doesn't strike me as particularly bellended. Continuing with them if they serve the job seems relatively sensible.
> 
> The Express has turned into a self-declared fanzine. Tomorrow we get Diana and Maddie's takes on the contest through a psychic medium.
> 
> View attachment 336895


Queen Elizabeth III


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Strange how he suddenly has a fucked pair of shoes after the Prada incident?
> I don't believe he owns shoes with holes and tears in them.


Not holes and tears, they’re “distressed”


----------



## Raheem (Aug 10, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Not holes and tears, they’re “distressed”


Well, they have to go wherever he goes and listen to everything he says.


----------



## wow (Aug 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> If you just use the search function and pop Spanner in the username box up they all pop. Or if as appears the case that's beyond you here click this link Spanner then click where you see 458. It's bollocks their posts are hidden. You just have all the investigative skills of cressida dick.
> 
> Your first address to me was to accuse me of bullying. And not nicely either. As nietzsche said, it is inhuman to bless where one is cursed.
> 
> I don't make a habit of getting people banned, if you are it'll be all your own work


When I click that link, it just says “Spanner Banned”, with no links to their posts.

Send me a proper link. I’m not doing your research for you.

Re: bullying. You know who and what you are. Cat Fan felt bullied.



Cat Fan said:


> I suffer from anxiety and normally stay away from social media precisely for that reason.
> 
> My experience on this thread has been that I've been picked on for my political beliefs. Ok, fair enough it's a politics thread, but I was genuinely upset by some of the comments and I thought they were uncalled for.
> 
> ...



You played the weasel card of telling the accuser to find the evidence. That’s all anyone needs to know about your character.



Pickman's model said:


> Pls name the post you're referring to. E2a cat fan refers to me once in this thread and does not say what you say they said. As krtek a houby says you're a liar, tho you can redeem that reputation by apologising for your mistake here



Oh. Is your mate https://www.urban75.net/forums/members/krtek-a-houby.2838/ on an “Enforced Holiday for bullying?


Pickman's model said:


> Pls name the post you're referring to. E2a cat fan refers to me once in this thread and does not say what you say they said. As krtek a houby says you're a liar, tho you can redeem that reputation by apologising for your mistake here



Maybe Krtek’s words are not as …weighty… as they once were. I’m certainly not going to apologise to an ex-member who was actually banned for bullying or his best mate whose only tactic is to deflect and insult.

Maybe getting people banned isn’t a “habit” of yours despite the implied threat that you could click your fingers and make it happen. If you can: do. If you can’t: shush.


----------



## wow (Aug 11, 2022)

Humberto said:


> You want the government to be fueled by cocaine?


I’d prefer speed. It removes the ego.


----------



## wow (Aug 11, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> This is the most disappointing aspect of the entire ‘Wow’ jaunt. He started strongly by confidently (and wrongly) twice asserting who would win the Tory leadership. But it’s been boringly downhill all the way from there.
> 
> Nothing shows the decline of U75 more than the the quality of the trolls etc etc


…conveniently forgetting that early days into the contest I called Truss and have not wavered since. My opinions are based on my knowledge of the RW press and how they manipulate the RW populace. So, yes, I was flip-flopping to begin with, because so were they. But they settled on their opinion very quickly, and it hasn’t changed. And therefore, nor has mine.


wow said:


> I think Truss is the only remaining candidate the RW media and Tory members will accept.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 11, 2022)

wow said:


> I’d prefer speed. It removes the ego.



Having no ego wouldn't be very nice and is a problem. Having excessive ego, no, we've got the likes of Johnson and Truss for two examples of that.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 11, 2022)

wow said:


> I’d prefer speed. It removes the ego.


I've met speed freaks it didn't remove their ego.


----------



## wow (Aug 11, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Having no ego wouldn't be very nice and is a problem. Having excessive ego, no, we've got the likes of Johnson and Truss for two examples of that.





two sheds said:


> I've met speed freaks it didn't remove their ego.


Sounds like you’ve both met cokeheads. Speed freaks REALLY CARE ABOUT YOU.
Imagine Ecstasy without the trippiness. Imagine coke without the narcissism.
That’s speed.


That was speed 25 years ago, anyway, when I was caning it every week.


----------



## pesh (Aug 11, 2022)

mushrooms and mdma ftw.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 11, 2022)

wow said:


> Sounds like you’ve both met cokeheads. Speed freaks REALLY CARE ABOUT YOU.
> Imagine Ecstasy without the trippiness. Imagine coke without the narcissism.
> That’s speed.


I was going to buy a houseboat from the first speed freak I met. A mate who knew him told me that he took a lot of speed and only _thought_ he had a houseboat. Just as well really, though, because I was smoking a lot at the time and didn't really have the money to pay for it. 

I met a couple after that and they didn't know what the fuck they were doing, also violent with it. And no not coke they didn't have the money for that.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 11, 2022)

wow said:


> Sounds like you’ve both met cokeheads. Speed freaks REALLY CARE ABOUT YOU.
> Imagine Ecstasy without the trippiness. Imagine coke without the narcissism.
> That’s speed.
> 
> ...



The glory days. It's ok we're all old people here.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 11, 2022)

wow said:


> When I click that link, it just says “Spanner Banned”, with no links to their posts.
> 
> Send me a proper link. I’m not doing your research for you.
> 
> ...


Whether Cat Fan felt bullied I think it's time we all moved on.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 11, 2022)

wow said:


> When I click that link, it just says “Spanner Banned”, with no links to their posts.
> 
> Send me a proper link. I’m not doing your research for you.
> 
> ...



Weasal cards notwithstanding, the evidence of the weighty matters have been referred to the moderating board direct that you/your next of kin must present a counter report by the 18th.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 11, 2022)

Had coke twice, too, first time nothing and second time was a nasty power trip didn't fancy that at all.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 11, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Had coke twice, too, first time nothing and second time was a nasty power trip didn't fancy that at all.


Lol, I thought this was about the tory leadership contest. I reckon Truss really likes the power trip. 
Rish! sticks to diet coke though.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 11, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Rish! sticks to diet coke though.



well diet coke's speed isn't it  I'd imagine he'd go for copious amounts of the real thing.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 11, 2022)

two sheds said:


> well diet coke's speed isn't it  I'd imagine he'd go for copious amounts of the real thing.


 or , can't decide. Either way it's a shit show.


----------



## stdP (Aug 11, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Rish! sticks to diet coke though.



I have it on good authority that he's a fan of Mexican coke.









						Rishi Sunak mocked as ‘accidental Partridge’ after resurfaced video shows him telling children he is a ‘coke addict’
					

‘I have seven fillings to show for it,’ chancellor explains in lengthy monologue




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Humberto (Aug 11, 2022)

Who cares guys it's basically fine.









						Who cares if George Osborne did, or did not, take cocaine in his youth? | Suzanne Moore
					

Suzanne Moore: Politics is hypocritical and miserable – these witchhunts for evidence of drug use prevents a useful and informed discussion




					www.theguardian.com
				












						Michael Gove admits to taking cocaine on 'several occasions'
					

Tory leadership candidate says he took the drug as a young journalist, adding ‘it was a mistake’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## wow (Aug 11, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Whether Cat Fan felt bullied I think it's time we all moved on.



Cat Fan felt bullied. There’s no “whether” about it.

Honestly, I thought you were one of the good guys, but you basically just told a female member of this forum that her concerns are worthless and she ought to get over them.  

That makes you a weasel as well.



Humberto said:


> Weasal cards notwithstanding, the evidence of the weighty matters have been referred to the moderating board direct that you/your next of kin must present a counter report by the 18th.



I don’t know or care what you’re trying to say there. Something-something-referred-to-some-geek-who-holds-a-sword-above-my-head. Wowsers.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 11, 2022)

Michael Gove certainly was a mistake.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 11, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Michael Gove certainly was a mistake.


Optimistic use of past tense.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 11, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Michael Gove certainly was a mistake.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 11, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Well, they have to go wherever he goes and listen to everything he says.


A tough ask for anything with a sole


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2022)

wow said:


> When I click that link, it just says “Spanner Banned”, with no links to their posts.
> 
> Send me a proper link. I’m not doing your research for you.
> 
> ...


I have told you two ways to see Spanner's posts and you're too fucking stupid to use either of them. Sadly I can only explain things to you, I can't understand them for you. And if you're going to accuse me of bullying it's really up to you to demonstrate that whereas all you've done thus far is to say I'm a poster on a board where someone's felt uncomfortable. I've asked you to put up and now it's time for you to shut up.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 11, 2022)

Gordon Brown has just shown Starmer and Labour: a) how to formulate a set of thought out and strategic demands and b) how to make political capital out of them - putting Johnson, Truss and Sunak on the spot. 

Starmer should adopt these ideas immediately and thank Brown for drafting out something that seems beyond the ken of the current clowns of what passes for a Labour Party 









						We must tax profits now, freeze energy price rises - and if necessary bring suppliers into the public sector | Gordon Brown
					

Without urgent action, families are seeing nothing more than pain now and pain later. There is a way through, says former prime minister Gordon Brown




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## redcogs (Aug 11, 2022)

In my mind Sunak Starmer and Brown are the same people, who could easily inhabit the same political party - soft social democratic types each inclined to invoke Keynes if circumstance require.  The current scenario of a collapsing global capitalism _* might *_be dealt with by such a methodological approach, but equally the alternative (well trodden) route of catastrophic world war begins to cast its dark shadow. Arch opportunist Truss will likely emerge holding reins, but i dont imagine she could be a long termer. Fuckin bleak for all those bumping along the bottom whatever happens. 🙁

So i'm pretty pessimistic about prospects, but my heart still tells me to be hopeful for the necessary shift towards a much more equal society. We have to have faith that working people can begin to combine and assert after such a long slumber ('shake your chains to earth like dew, which in sleep hath fallen on you')?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 11, 2022)

Even a stopped Gordon brown is right twice a day


----------



## Smangus (Aug 11, 2022)

redcogs said:


> In my mind Sunak Starmer and Brown are the same people, who could easily inhabit the same political party - soft social democratic types each inclined to invoke Keynes if circumstance require.  The current scenario of a collapsing global capitalism _* might *_be dealt with by such a methodological approach, but equally the alternative (well trodden) route of catastrophic world war begins to cast its dark shadow. Arch opportunist Truss will likely emerge holding reins, but i dont imagine she could be a long termer. Fuckin bleak for all those bumping along the bottom whatever happens. 🙁



No way on earth is Sunak a soft social democratic type. Don't be fooled.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 11, 2022)

Smangus said:


> No way on earth is Sunak a soft social democratic type. Don't be fooled.


They are all cunts however.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 11, 2022)

redcogs said:


> In my mind Sunak Starmer and Brown are the same people, who could easily inhabit the same political party - soft social democratic types each inclined to invoke Keynes if circumstance require.  The current scenario of a collapsing global capitalism _* might *_be dealt with by such a methodological approach, but equally the alternative (well trodden) route of catastrophic world war begins to cast its dark shadow. Arch opportunist Truss will likely emerge holding reins, but i dont imagine she could be a long termer. Fuckin bleak for all those bumping along the bottom whatever happens. 🙁
> 
> So i'm pretty pessimistic about prospects, but my heart still tells me to be hopeful for the necessary shift towards a much more equal society. We have to have faith that working people can begin to combine and assert after such a long slumber ('shake your chains to earth like dew, which in sleep hath fallen on you')?



Yeah, as someone else had said Sunak is no social democrat. He is a fairly classical smash up the state Tory. Albeit one with a better political antenna than the insurgent right who are gradually realizing how jarring their 'return to neo-liberal first principles' approach currently embodied in Truss' campaign offer of corporation tax cuts, reversal of NICS and stopping green levies is. Starmer and Brown are, but social democrats who have accepted the price to be paid is to leave the markets alone.

Purely on that basis a return of Keynesian economics would be a seismic moment.  It would represent a break from the past 45 years and a popular repudiation of the neo-libs and the warped social democrats it has subsequently produced who accept that 'there is no alternative to the market'. The gathering debate about the need for utilities like gas, electric and water to be in public ownership not only shows how a double movement effect of McDonnell's economic plan published 5 years ago is taking place but is one largely gathering speed due to pressure from below.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 11, 2022)

She’s laughing because it’s just tap water


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 11, 2022)

Flipin ell, isnt this rubbish over with yet. No wonder they always make a pigs ear of things if it takes this long to get a new leader


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Flipin ell, isnt this rubbish over with yet. No wonder they always make a pigs ear of things if it takes this long to get a new leader


Leaders are always rubbish


----------



## emanymton (Aug 11, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Flipin ell, isnt this rubbish over with yet. No wonder they always make a pigs ear of things if it takes this long to get a new leader


Is that why Cameron wanted to be leader? The pigs ears?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 336966
> 
> She’s laughing because it’s just tap water


Yeh but Margaret thatcher was a scientist so truss has to have a science picture


----------



## stavros (Aug 11, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Not holes and tears, they’re “distressed”


If you're attached to Rishi Sunak you're entitled to feel distressed.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 11, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 11, 2022)

Conservative voter.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 11, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Conservative voter.




The Yorkshire version is 'all whippet, no rickets'.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 11, 2022)

"Fur coat and no knickers", usually.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 11, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> "Fur coat and no knickers", usually.


Big head, no bread in the house.


----------



## redcogs (Aug 12, 2022)

Smangus said:


> No way on earth is Sunak a soft social democratic type. Don't be fooled.


OK.  my clumsily made point wasn't clear. i was attempting to suggest that Brown/Starmer/Truss and Sunak's main job relates to protecting the profit system.  Sunak introduced furlough to prevent economic collapse just as Brown's 2008 'quantitative easing'  gifted the banks with hundreds of billions of public money.  i see no essential difference between the approach each used in these two  different emergency circumstances.  Of course i accept that in ordinary conditions Labour and Tory have a different ideological *emphasis*.  But when it comes to the stick and lift, when it really matters, Tory Party adherents like cunt Sunak have been quite capable of being Keynesians,  and fuckers like Brown can piss over working class people to preserve the Bankers interests above all else - and will likely do so again.  When the British state is threatened, politically or economically, both capitalist Labour and capitalist Conservatives are pretty well indistinguishable from one another.  Fuck em both.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 12, 2022)

Jesus, this stuff is so extreme that she'd fit in well with Starmer's front bench.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Jesus, this stuff is so extreme that she'd fit in well with Starmer's front bench.
> 
> View attachment 337144


I can feel a,  ' I've been misinterpreted' coming on.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Jesus, this stuff is so extreme that she'd fit in well with Starmer's front bench.
> 
> View attachment 337144


Apparently Labour was smeared as well, both with no evidence:


----------



## brogdale (Aug 12, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Apparently Labour was smeared as well, both with no evidence:



The vermin membership will lap that up.


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Jesus, this stuff is so extreme that she'd fit in well with Starmer's front bench.
> 
> View attachment 337144


So she doesn’t know the difference between civil servants and local, elected, councillors. Promising.


----------



## redcogs (Aug 12, 2022)

As  a completely vile absolutely unprincipled continuation of the Boris business Truss will likely waltz into the premiership by a considerable margin. Her  phoney feminine power dressed image (deliberately designed to appeal to the Tory Party's mysogynist base) cannot conceal those awful dead eyes can it?  She will do damage unless confronted.  Bring it on.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 12, 2022)

belboid said:


> So she doesn’t know the difference between civil servants and local, elected, councillors. Promising.


Not a details person


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Not a details person


Also, doesn't do ideas.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 12, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Also, doesn't do ideas.


of course she does! She's " the first truly _philosophy_-driven leader since Mrs Thatcher"


----------



## bimble (Aug 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Jesus, this stuff is so extreme that she'd fit in well with Starmer's front bench.
> 
> View attachment 337144


Just saw this. Makes me, a “British Jewry”tm member absolutely fucking furious. Thought that we were past that point where you needed to talk about your deep concern for Jews when it’s an election but no.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2022)

ska invita said:


> of course she does! She's " the first truly _philosophy_-driven leader since Mrs Thatcher"
> 
> View attachment 337153


like a famous ancient greek philosopher she should be made to drink hemlock


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 12, 2022)

belboid said:


> So she doesn’t know the difference between civil servants and local, elected, councillors. Promising.



She doesn't know the difference between civil service and the public sector in general either. 

Any other job in the world, you have to demonstrate basic competence. But not prime minister. Any fuckwit can be PM if they can just spout enough shit to appeal to 100,000 grumpy boomers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> She doesn't know the difference between civil service and the public sector in general either.
> 
> Any other job in the world, you have to demonstrate basic competence. But not prime minister. Any fuckwit can be PM if they can just spout enough shit to appeal to 100,000 grumpy boomers.


all we get is fuckwit after fuckwit. when will we get someone halfway decent?


----------



## CyberRose (Aug 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Jesus, this stuff is so extreme that she'd fit in well with Starmer's front bench.
> 
> View attachment 337144



She might want to start with her own backers...









						Tory MP criticised for using antisemitic term 'cultural Marxism'
					

Board of Deputies says Suella Braverman should pledge not to use term linked with far right




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## CyberRose (Aug 12, 2022)

Quite a few more...









						28 Tories Wrote About an Anti-Semitic Trope and No One Seemed to Notice
					

The lead signatory on a letter to the Telegraph doubled-down on the phrase “cultural Marxism,” defending it as a “recognised school of philosophy.”




					www.vice.com


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 12, 2022)

I mean if I was about to become prime minister I'm not sure I'd be openly cussing out the civil service but hey, I guess that's the price of being an unflinching servant of truth and integrity.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2022)

Shows how thick and arrogant they are. I'm guessing they don't know that combatting _Cultural Marxism _was Anders Breivik's main schtick. 

_recognised school of philosophy_


----------



## xenon (Aug 12, 2022)

Woodchipper for them all.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I mean if I was about to become prime minister I'm not sure I'd be openly cussing out the civil service but hey, I guess that's the price of being an unflinching servant of truth and integrity.



i dont think they are looking to make friends








						Plan to axe 91,000 civil servants ‘only possible with cuts to services’
					

Review casts doubt on Boris Johnson’s claim that frontline services would not be harmed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I mean if I was about to become prime minister I'm not sure I'd be openly cussing out the civil service but hey, I guess that's the price of being an unflinching servant of truth and integrity.



There’s this ideological idea in government that the civil service isn’t needed, all government business just needs minimal footprint, preferably a SPAD talking to businesses to do what government wants them to do (it’s more efficient)

Meanwhile much of the public perception of civil service is of Yes Minister nebulous conspirators rather than hordes of people trying to implement the latest insane idea from above on no budget and at short notice. 

Dangerous mix


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 12, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> There’s this ideological idea in government that the civil service isn’t needed, all government business just needs minimal footprint, preferably a SPAD talking to businesses to do what government wants them to do (it’s more efficient)
> 
> Meanwhile much of the public perception of civil service is of Yes Minister nebulous conspirators rather than hordes of people trying to implement the latest insane idea from above on no budget and at short notice.
> 
> Dangerous mix



None of these idiots could actually write legislation that holds water though. They'd end up 'saving money' by getting consultants to do it at ten times the cost.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> None of these idiots could actually write legislation that holds water though. They'd end up 'saving money' by getting consultants to do it at ten times the cost.




Oh yes, it’s an insane idea that government should be totally stripped down, lean and hungry and hire in experts only when needed.


----------



## stavros (Aug 12, 2022)

ska invita said:


> of course she does! She's " the first truly _philosophy_-driven leader since Mrs Thatcher"
> 
> View attachment 337153


Given the average age of their readership, they must be hoping they forget that the current incumbent is a strict adherent to the "whatever benefits me" philosophy.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 12, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> all we get is fuckwit after fuckwit. when will we get someone halfway decent?



Extrapolating from the current trajectory, the next PM after Truss will be Dorries. 

Assuming her liver holds out that long.


----------



## quiet guy (Aug 12, 2022)

ska invita said:


> i dont think they are looking to make friends
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes cut the Civil Service and then all the departments hire in consultants at vastly over inflated rates to advise on how the remaining staff are supposed to carry out all the work. Modern management thinking (!!) in practice  with all the Tory twats vying for the mega bucks contracts


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> Just saw this. Makes me, a “British Jewry”tm member absolutely fucking furious. Thought that we were past that point where you needed to talk about your deep concern for Jews when it’s an election but no.


But you should be proud! You’re so good at business and maintaining a nuclear weapon  family


----------



## bimble (Aug 12, 2022)

belboid said:


> But you should be proud! You’re so good at business and maintaining a nuclear weapon  family


I met a man once who said exactly this same thing to me he was really happy to meet a Jew because he has a lot of respect for Alan Sugar, and how we look after our own, unlike some immigrants. I was in his house, for Christmas, he had red trousers and no books and they served 3 different kinds of pork wrapped around each other. Good times.


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2022)

bimble said:


> I met a man once who said exactly this same thing to me he was really happy to meet a Jew because he has a lot of respect for Alan Sugar, and how we look after our own, unlike some immigrants. I was in his house, for Christmas, he had red trousers and no books and they served 3 different kinds of pork wrapped around each other. Good times.


I have no idea what the correct emoji is in response to that. Probably all of them


----------



## bimble (Aug 12, 2022)

She’s just like him. There’s probably loads like that in the pool of voters she’s appealing to. Btw I love bacon just thought it was funny, his ignorance, he had been alerted to the incoming Jew.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Extrapolating from the current trajectory, the next PM after Truss will be Dorries.
> 
> Assuming her liver holds out that long.


Or mine


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 12, 2022)

Three types of pork sounds like heaven. 

Red trousers though is a sure sign of a diseased mind


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 12, 2022)

I used to own a pair of red trousers


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I used to own a pair of red trousers


Did you once invite a nice Jewish lady round for Christmas and serve her pork three ways?


----------



## emanymton (Aug 12, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I used to own a pair of red trousers


Used to, so you got better?


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 12, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Used to, so you got better?


They no longer fit, possibly due to eating too much pork


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 12, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Did you once invite a nice Jewish lady round for Christmas and serve her pork three ways?


Can’t say I did


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 12, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Did you once invite a nice Jewish lady round for Christmas and serve her pork three ways?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 12, 2022)

Been in Mr Benn's shop again.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 12, 2022)




----------



## wow (Aug 13, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I have told you two ways to see Spanner's posts and you're too fucking stupid to use either of them. Sadly I can only explain things to you, I can't understand them for you. And if you're going to accuse me of bullying it's really up to you to demonstrate that whereas all you've done thus far is to say I'm a poster on a board where someone's felt uncomfortable. I've asked you to put up and now it's time for you to shut up.



You’re the “fucking stupid” one if you think I didn’t try them both. 

As for this: “All you’ve done thus far is to say I'm a poster on a board where someone's felt uncomfortable”. 

Look:



Cat Fan said:


> Are you uncomfortable for being called out on being a bully?



“Someone”, aka an actual person, recognised and refuted you and your friend’s tag-team passive/aggressive comments. 



Pickman's model said:


> I think you're expecting a pass because you think opinions are sacred. They're not, not if they're built on sand.



… and then figured the odds were stacked against her. 


Cat Fan said:


> I'm very happy to have a debate, I just don't appreciate people telling me I'm scum or a scab or whatever
> 
> Anyway don't worry you won't be seeing me again on this forum



…and so you chased this member away from the thread. 

Your entire shtick is “plausible deniability”.


----------



## xenon (Aug 13, 2022)

wow said:


> You’re the “fucking stupid” one if you think I didn’t try them both.
> 
> As for this: “All you’ve done thus far is to say I'm a poster on a board where someone's felt uncomfortable”.
> 
> ...



What you been up to today? seen any other threads you fancy posting on?


----------



## two sheds (Aug 13, 2022)

At least Rishi's doing ok


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 13, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 13, 2022)

two sheds said:


> At least Rishi's doing ok





It’s so infuriating how these people are in charge given how awful they are at optics and reading the room.

A decent media could rip these entitled fucks to bits with day after day and column after column on the lies and privilege.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 13, 2022)

Worth remembering the gold medal delusion of this fucking swivel-eyed tool who thought he was fit to be PM









						Nadhim Zahawi: Poll finds only 12% believe chancellor working remotely is ‘appropriate’
					

We spoke to Chancellor of the Exchequer Nadhim Zahawi about the cost of living and whether it is “appropriate” to be working remotely during the crisis.




					www.channel4.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2022)

wow said:


> You’re the “fucking stupid” one if you think I didn’t try them both.
> 
> As for this: “All you’ve done thus far is to say I'm a poster on a board where someone's felt uncomfortable”.
> 
> ...


1) put spanner in the search box



Spoiler







2) and the posts pop up


Spoiler







So for me you're ridiculously stupid


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2022)

wow said:


> You’re the “fucking stupid” one if you think I didn’t try them both.
> 
> As for this: “All you’ve done thus far is to say I'm a poster on a board where someone's felt uncomfortable”.
> 
> ...


Your entire life is empty and barren - no normal person would return night after night for more than a week as you've done here. If you think there's been bullying here you should have reported it as was pointed out some pages back. You're not going to get any joy out of posting here.


----------



## A380 (Aug 13, 2022)

wow said:


> You’re the “fucking stupid” one if you think I didn’t try them both.
> 
> As for this: “All you’ve done thus far is to say I'm a poster on a board where someone's felt uncomfortable”.
> 
> ...


Good grief.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 13, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Aug 13, 2022)

teqniq said:


>



It's not the numbers in the dodgy LibDem bar charts that are the problem, so she didn't learn that much whilst she was with the yellow streak  of piss.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> It's not the numbers in the dodgy LibDem bar charts that are the problem, so she didn't learn that much whilst she was with the yellow streak  of piss.


The golden shower


----------



## brogdale (Aug 13, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> The golden shower


indeed.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 13, 2022)

Comes to something that a prospective PM can boast about fiddling figures, how they know all about how to do it and an audience will bay and cheer. Politics... its a wasteland


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Comes to something that a prospective PM can boast about fiddling figures, how they know all about how to do it and an audience will bay and cheer. Politics... its a wasteland


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 13, 2022)

Please could we all just stop replying to the tedious attention seeker? (Wow not Truss)


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 13, 2022)

Liz Truss advocated fracking and people applauded.

It's as if she looks at what is happening and specifically chooses the exact opposite of the thing that could help and has found an echo chamber within which to do it.

Fracking!


----------



## bimble (Aug 13, 2022)

thought this was a good bit of writing, on the vacuousness of it all.








						There’s a gaping hole at the centre of British politics where ideas used to be | William Davies
					

Ideas once animated politics. Now our political class is rudderless at a time of crisis, says economist William Davies




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 13, 2022)

two sheds said:


> At least Rishi's doing ok



13k per year to heat it!
Cunt. 
Fresh pictures of Rishi Sunak's HUGE pool as he faces cost of living criticism


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 13, 2022)

He worked hard for his money etc


----------



## brogdale (Aug 13, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> He worked hard for his money etc


Wealth creators are worth what they earn...


----------



## redcogs (Aug 13, 2022)

Where would we be without business and employers providing jobs etc etc..


----------



## BCBlues (Aug 13, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 337306



"That's Yorkshire fucked, now for the West Midlands "


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Wealth creators are worth what they earn...


Wealth extractors please


----------



## brogdale (Aug 13, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Wealth extractors please


Yeah, my bad...should have   'd it


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 13, 2022)




----------



## stavros (Aug 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Worth remembering the gold medal delusion of this fucking swivel-eyed tool who thought he was fit to be PM
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I suppose Zahawi not working remotely is an improvement on Johnson not remotely working.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 13, 2022)




----------



## wow (Aug 13, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Your entire life is empty and barren - no normal person would return night after night for more than a week as you've done here. If you think there's been bullying here you should have reported it as was pointed out some pages back. You're not going to get any joy out of posting here.


1. Projection. No-one would post as often as you do on a niche forum if they had a full and fruitful life.
2. I prefer to challenge bullies directly about their behaviour. That’s how it works IRL where there isn’t a “report” button. One of them (Krtek) has apparently already been suspended. 
3. I’m getting tremendous joy posting here.


----------



## wow (Aug 13, 2022)

xenon said:


> What you been up to today? seen any other threads you fancy posting on?


Found out my dad has total kidney failure to compound his prostate cancer. You?


A380 said:


> Good grief.


Calm down, Penfold.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2022)

wow said:


> 1. Projection. No-one would post as often as you do on a niche forum if they had a full and fruitful life.
> 2. I prefer to challenge bullies directly about their behaviour. That’s how it works IRL where there isn’t a “report” button. One of them (Krtek) has apparently already been suspended.
> 3. I’m getting tremendous joy posting


It's not projection. There's much joy on these boards, there's people helping one another, there's the cut and thrust of debate and then there's a shitferbrains no mark like you whose empty and barren life is about to get emptier. Anyway, what else are you going to do when you're at work?

Oh and you are fucking stupid, and krtek hasn't been suspended


----------



## wow (Aug 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> It's not projection. There's much joy on these boards, there's people helping one another, there's the cut and thrust of debate and then there's a shitferbrains no mark like you whose empty and barren life is about to get emptier. Anyway, what else are you going to do when you're at work?
> 
> Oh and you are fucking stupid, and krtek hasn't been suspended



“Shitferbrains” “no mark like you”, “empty…life is about to get emptier”

Good job no-one ever accused you of bullying. They might’ve had a case.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 14, 2022)

Jesus Christ enough of this bollocks


----------



## xenon (Aug 14, 2022)

wow said:


> Found out my dad has total kidney failure to compound his prostate cancer. You?
> 
> Calm down, Penfold.



Well as one board member to another, I'm sorry to hear that and wish you  luck. Genuinnely.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 14, 2022)

two sheds said:


> At least Rishi's doing ok



There's a tidal wave of horror heading our way where people won't be able to eat or heat and he's Marie Antoinette.


----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 14, 2022)

Looking at the latest poll in the Observer / Guardian.

The Members still want Johnson to be leader. The guy who's was 10 points behind Starmer. They really are illogical. 

Also the Members can't seem to say good things about either canditate


----------



## teqniq (Aug 14, 2022)

With any luck there will be an implosion within the vermin. /wishful thinking.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 14, 2022)

"Best of the two"?


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 14, 2022)

So why is Truss manufacturing claims about antisemitism in the civil service? Is she a) barking, b) up to no good, or c) both? I'm quite sure there are antisemites in the civil service, but why is she saying it's a big problem, and where is she going with this?


----------



## JimW (Aug 14, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> So why is Truss manufacturing claims about antisemitism in the civil service? Is she a) barking, b) up to no good, or c) both? I'm quite sure there are antisemites in the civil service, but why is she saying it's a big problem, and where is she going with this?


Addressing a Jewish community group iirc so presumably thought that would win brownie points. Probably got a wtf.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> Addressing a Jewish community group iirc so presumably thought that would win brownie points. Probably got a wtf.


Just an off the cuff remark then, or the start of some campaign or other?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 14, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> So why is Truss manufacturing claims about antisemitism in the civil service? Is she a) barking, b) up to no good, or c) both? I'm quite sure there are antisemites in the civil service, but why is she saying it's a big problem, and where is she going with this?



Trying to tar the civil service as the enemy within and Labour supporting lefties


----------



## JimW (Aug 14, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> Just an off the cuff remark then, or the start of some campaign or other?


That I don't know, be surprised if it was more than speak your brains though.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 14, 2022)

A month or two of Truss and we'll be looking back on the olden days of Johnson as _could have been worse_, _and now they are. _


----------



## _Russ_ (Aug 14, 2022)

> then there's a shitferbrains no mark like you whose empty and barren life is about to get emptier.


Not that I hadn't already worked out you were a sad excuse for a Human being, but that remark puts the rubber stamp on it...cunt


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 14, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> Not that I hadn't already worked out you were a sad excuse for a Human being, but that remark puts the rubber stamp on it...cunt


Oh noes an irrelevant wankstain's called me a cunt  yeh now I'm no longer going to reply to the little shit he'll only have you to play with. So we'll soon see if he plays with anti-semites


----------



## wow (Aug 14, 2022)

xenon said:


> Well as one board member to another, I'm sorry to hear that and wish you  luck. Genuinnely.


Thanks. That’s very generous of you.


----------



## wow (Aug 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Oh noes an irrelevant wankstain's called me a cunt  yeh now I'm no longer going to reply to the little shit he'll only have you to play with. So we'll soon see if he plays with anti-semites


Why are you so hostile, Pickman's model ?

“irrelevant”, “wankstain”, “little shit”. 

That kind of language and attitude doesn’t cover you in glory.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 15, 2022)

wow said:


> Why are you so hostile, Pickman's model ?
> 
> “irrelevant”, “wankstain”, “little shit”.
> 
> That kind of language and attitude doesn’t cover you in glory.



You don't talk like you have any wisdom. This is it for you. This is all you've got. As far as it goes.

Silly person.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 15, 2022)

Humberto said:


> You don't talk like you have any wisdom. This is it for you. This is all you've got. As far as it goes.
> 
> Silly person.


They should get a room. Or at least, one of them should and then Pickman's doesn't need to visit.
So tedious, it's almost as bad as the Tory leadership contest.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 15, 2022)

Dunno what to make of this:









						Rishi Sunak's beloved 'charter cities' pose a huge threat to our democracy
					

IF, like me, you are not impressed by the hogwash being pushed by promoters of freeports, “green” or otherwise, then you ain’t seen nothing…




					www.thenational.scot


----------



## Humberto (Aug 15, 2022)

We're not even cattle to them. More like rats.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 15, 2022)

Just as Rishi is the chief rat.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Aug 15, 2022)

Sharp as a tack is our Liz.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 15, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> A month or two of Truss and we'll be looking back on the olden days of Johnson as _could have been worse_, _and now they are. _


That had been the trend with the last few Prime Ministers.


----------



## philosophical (Aug 15, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Sharp as a tack is our Liz.
> View attachment 337749



Truss is ridiculous. 
The ‘Irish Question’ lingers on….and on and on.
If Truss thinks she has a solution let’s hear it.
Northern Ireland and Great Britain are currently the UK, which voted to leave the EU.
The Republic of Ireland is part of the EU.
There is a land border.
Solve that in the context of the Belfast Agreement Truss you moron, your rhetoric is stirring up trouble.
I assume that she is yet another dreary anti Irish racist who feels empowered in her racism because 52% voted leave.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 15, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Sharp as a tack is our Liz.
> View attachment 337749



And I'm starting to think this Gargamel character doesn't like smurfs at all.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 15, 2022)

I thought the wedge between Ireland and Great Britain was called the Irish Sea.


----------



## contadino (Aug 15, 2022)

The sea border that Johnson put between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK is a significant wedge, truth be told.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2022)

contadino said:


> The sea border that Johnson put between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK is a significant wedge, truth be told.


sadly the irish sea's never been wide enough to prevent english depredations


----------



## weepiper (Aug 16, 2022)

Lol


----------



## weepiper (Aug 16, 2022)

"LIZ TRUSS IS A FANNY"


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 16, 2022)

I think the endless spineless tolerance of the SWP coupled with the ongoing cult-like enthusiasm for social capitalism is enough to completely end me and any association I have with the left now. Not that I am right wing either from now on..


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 16, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Lol



The scum are the Scottish Nazi Party.


----------



## Sue (Aug 16, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> The scum are the Scottish Nazi Party.


Here we go again... 🤣


----------



## weltweit (Aug 16, 2022)

I think I am going to try to ignore the Tory election issue for now, I don't even have a vote and my bet is neither do any of the other Urban75'ers getting frothy about it


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 16, 2022)

> If you go to China it’s quite different, I can assure you.”











						Leaked audio reveals Liz Truss said British workers needed ‘more graft’
					

Exclusive: Tory leadership frontrunner suggested Britons lacked ‘skill and application’, in echo of ‘idlers’ row




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## killer b (Aug 16, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> The scum are the Scottish Nazi Party.


Mostly SWP placards I can see there, have they taken a hard-right swing north of the border or something?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 16, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> The scum are the Scottish Nazi Party.


Brilliant comment. Thankyou Sasaferrato.


----------



## JimW (Aug 16, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Leaked audio reveals Liz Truss said British workers needed ‘more graft’
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Tory leadership frontrunner suggested Britons lacked ‘skill and application’, in echo of ‘idlers’ row
> ...


Never done a day's work in her life.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 16, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Leaked audio reveals Liz Truss said British workers needed ‘more graft’
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Tory leadership frontrunner suggested Britons lacked ‘skill and application’, in echo of ‘idlers’ row
> ...



Between her and Mogg, we'll be chained to our desks for 15 hours a day.


----------



## stdP (Aug 16, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Between her and Mogg, we'll be chained to our desks for 15 hours a day.



Desks? Surely half of us are for the Stilton mines, the other half making sausages in gloomy abattoirs.


----------



## SysOut (Aug 16, 2022)

Or cockle picking..


----------



## Tanya1982 (Aug 16, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Leaked audio reveals Liz Truss said British workers needed ‘more graft’
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Tory leadership frontrunner suggested Britons lacked ‘skill and application’, in echo of ‘idlers’ row
> ...


Says woman who had taxpayers billed for several thousand pounds of wine in the form of over a bottle for each person (and also managed to polish off several other bottles of assorted alcohols) at a single lunch for less than a handful of guests.


----------



## quiet guy (Aug 16, 2022)

She didn't drink it all, she took them home for personal use.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 16, 2022)

doggie bottles


----------



## Cerv (Aug 16, 2022)

I recall in Stephen Fry's autobiography he recounts how certain west end restaurants would add extras to your bill so that you could claim for the coke your waiter slipped you on expenses.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 16, 2022)




----------



## weepiper (Aug 16, 2022)

"Allow".


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 16, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




Well, they can fuck right off then.  Do they realise how little support they have in Scotland?


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 16, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Well, they can fuck right off then.  Do they realise how little support they have in Scotland?


I think some Tories have given up on Scotland. They wouldn't say so out loud, but they probably think that a DK (Disunited Kingdom) without Scotland could stay Tory forever. I think they're wrong, but I don't think they think they are.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 16, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> I think some Tories have given up on Scotland. They wouldn't say so out loud, but they probably think that a DK (Disunited Kingdom) without Scotland could stay Tory forever. I think they're wrong, but I don't think they think they are.



England will always be Tory or, at best, Tory-lite.  Something all Scots need to consider next indy ref.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 16, 2022)

Massive lol at the idea of Truss criticising others for being unproductive - she’s done fuck all in her years as a minister


----------



## two sheds (Aug 17, 2022)

That's just unfair. What about pork markets? And cheese? Don't forget the cheese.


----------



## stdP (Aug 17, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Massive lol at the idea of Truss criticising others for being unproductive - she’s done fuck all in her years as a minister



She's shown a strong initiative for a fresh pair of eyes to commence with a plan for restructuring the transitory collapsible seating composition on the Promenade deck. And after Silver vanished over the horizon, I've never seen anyone faster at commissioning a committee to discuss the possibility of engaging a symposium to engage the services of an architect to theorise about the feasibility of commencing on the contractual tenure for establishing relations with construction-adjacent entities as to the competitive tender of facilities to brainstorm solutions for erecting co-habitable equine restraint structures with functioning multi-use access portals.


----------



## xenon (Aug 17, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Massive lol at the idea of Truss criticising others for being unproductive - she’s done fuck all in her years as a minister



The gall of these fucking people. Oxbridge into reheated Thatcherite wank fantacies. Delusional old comfortably off home counties Tories, bought my house in 1963, what are the wokies moaning about, senile old cunts,  other more recent to the work place sociopaths just want the tax cuts.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 17, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Massive lol at the idea of Truss criticising others for being unproductive - she’s done fuck all in her years as a minister


Tbf, she's proves her own point very well.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 17, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Massive lol at the idea of Truss criticising others for being unproductive - she’s done fuck all in her years as a minister


Very true and it reminds me of Gove as the education minister making school kids work more and stay for longer at school, aswell as the teachers. This compared to the easy ride and lack of effort and hours that people like him put in when they were at Oxford. But then this is to do with the nature of the beasts that are capitalist society/ the class system I guess.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 17, 2022)

They've cut services to child protection.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 17, 2022)

That's exactly what they are, and they bullshitted their way to a fortune off the back of it.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 17, 2022)

If you want a voice, read up on it,  and get revenge. Or find another similar outrage.

Sorry no disrespect but that's how I do it.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 17, 2022)

We're so fucked.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 17, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> We're so fucked.
> 
> 
> View attachment 338052


Isn't that going to just be an article about intermittent fasting? Where you only allow yourself to eat between certain times to help you loose weight?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 17, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Massive lol at the idea of Truss criticising others for being unproductive - she’s done fuck all in her years as a minister



The biggest lol is that it’s yet more evidence that Truss doesn’t have a clue what she’s talking about.

Firstly, UK productivity is slightly above average when benchmarked against other ‘developed’ economies. If I remember rightly we are 15th out of 35, so around the median.

Secondly, how hard individuals work is not and never has been the decisive factor in productivity.

Her ignorance might be music to the ears of the cunts who get a vote for the next PM and a source of amusement for liberals, buy once she’s Prime Minister she’s going to have to outline an economic plan. So far it seems to be:


corporation tax cuts for the richest companies currently enjoying record profits and engaged in price gouging
Removal of green tax levy’s for the same
NICs increase reversal
banning strikes
make people work harder ‘to increase productivity’

Setting aside the human consequences of millions and millions being tipped into poverty or their existing poverty being worsened, just as an economic strategy to deal with the current crisis it’s fucking mental. Absolutely barmy. The media, currently licking their wounds after failing to lead a pile on against trade unions and their stunned  realisation that Labour’s energy prices freeze is supported even by 85% of Tory voters, continue to report her plans as a strategy rather than a slow motion car crash waiting to happen. That line won’t hold beyond August…


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 17, 2022)

hmm so is the idea to punish Scotland for its thought of independence

oddly they was transparency (control) regarding devolved powers


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 17, 2022)

I don't understand why these people even want to govern a country made up entirely of bone-idle, woke lefty terrorist paedophiles. If I was them I'd be on the first flight out.


----------



## Supine (Aug 17, 2022)

Tbf Johnson regularly flying out. At our expense obviously!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Isn't that going to just be an article about intermittent fasting? Where you only allow yourself to eat between certain times to help you loose weight?


I only allow myself to eat between meals but it's not helped me lose weight


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 17, 2022)

I'm so very tired.


----------



## prunus (Aug 17, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't understand why these people even want to govern a country made up entirely of bone-idle, woke lefty terrorist paedophiles. If I was them I'd be on the first flight out.



I'm often reminded by these people of the definition of a patriot given in an old issue of Mad magazine I had: "someone who claims to love their country while hating 90% of the people who live there."


----------



## Sue (Aug 17, 2022)

They're in Belfast today. This is going to go well.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 17, 2022)

Devil's dictionary: 

*PATRIOT*, _n._ One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to those of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 17, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The biggest lol is that it’s yet more evidence that Truss doesn’t have a clue what she’s talking about.


Not really. She isn't saying it because she thinks it is true. She might or she might not it doesn't really matter. 

She is saying it to appeal to the people she wants to appeal to.


----------



## A380 (Aug 17, 2022)

Sue said:


> They're in Belfast today. This is going to go well.


The recent torries having pulled of the amazing trick of getting both sides to despise them recently...


----------



## Sue (Aug 17, 2022)

A380 said:


> The recent torries having pulled of the amazing trick of getting both sides to despise them recently...


No idea how many Tory party members there even are in NI, given it's not so long ago the mainstream British parties didn't operate there. But guess they need to go so they look like they're interested/care....


----------



## A380 (Aug 17, 2022)

Sue said:


> No idea how many Tory party members there even are in NI, given it's not so long ago the mainstream British parties didn't operate there. But guess they need to go so they look like they're interested/care....


I imagine Truss has taken her passport...


----------



## Sue (Aug 17, 2022)

A380 said:


> I imagine Truss has taken her passport...


TBF, the last time I flew to Belfast, I took my passport as I'd no idea what Ryanair's ID requirements or whatever were. Can't remember if I needed it or not (was a few years before lockdown).


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 17, 2022)

Sue said:


> TBF, the last time I flew to Belfast, I took my passport as I'd no idea what Ryanair's ID requirements or whatever were. Can't remember if I needed it or not (was a few years before lockdown).



no legal requirement but Ba will want a passport

Ryanair nope


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 17, 2022)

Liz might have a harder time than most seeming as off the header banger types in North Ireland just vote for the DUP rather than conservatives 

still it only be a crowd of around 4 people so


----------



## philosophical (Aug 17, 2022)

Truss should tell Michelle O’Neill to her face that she is driving a wedge between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.
Just like she should tell Sturgeon she is an attention seeker.
Then she should jump off a cliff.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 17, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Not really. She isn't saying it because she thinks it is true. She might or she might not it doesn't really matter.
> 
> She is saying it to appeal to the people she wants to appeal to.



Eh? You do realis these were leaked comments made before she was even Foreign Secretary and long before she was about to be the next PM? Are you saying that she made them then knowing that would be leaked at some point?


----------



## contadino (Aug 17, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> We're so fucked.
> 
> 
> View attachment 338052


Readers of right-wing rags like the Telegraph are happy reading anything that tells them they can do exactly as they wish. Driving, flying, eating meat, etc.. When the message changes to 'go without' or 'not any more' they're gonna get rather tetchy. Being told that not being able to afford to eat is no longer just something that affects other people is going to be a tough pill to swallow.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 17, 2022)

hmm a Tory minister who think working class people are feckless and lazy is that not what every member of the party believes


----------



## Supine (Aug 17, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm a Tory minister who think working class people are feckless and lazy is that not what every member of the party believes



In the competition she has to believe it more than sunak


----------



## kabbes (Aug 17, 2022)

I’d like to state for the record that I am fiercely and proudly unproductive.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I’d like to state for the record that I am fiercely and proudly unproductive.




This, earn over 50k and work as very little as I can, constantly leave early and piss about on my phone

And I don't even live anywhere near that London.


----------



## A380 (Aug 17, 2022)

Indeed, I have absented myself from the labour force as my main contribution to the class struggle.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 17, 2022)

Was thinking about it as I drove back from the house ( nipped home for lunch ) I did work my arse off as a younger man, and now I'm almost 50 I don't care.

also I feel that they pay me for my experience and knowledge or something, i don't know


----------



## kabbes (Aug 17, 2022)

Ranbay said:


> Was thinking about it as I drove back from the house ( nipped home for lunch ) I did work my arse off as a younger man, and now I'm almost 50 I don't care.
> 
> also I feel that they pay me for my experience and knowledge or something, i don't know


I like to view myself as “on call”


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I like to view myself as “on call”




I tell everyone my job is "reactive" i know im not busy, but something could happen any minute


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 17, 2022)

Like this am, had to bomb back from Home Bargains cos someone had some lighting issues, turns out was down to us anyways... but had to stop mid shop


----------



## brogdale (Aug 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I like to view myself as “on call”


Personally, I like to regard myself as a conscientious objector to the reserve army of labour.


----------



## Smangus (Aug 17, 2022)

I'm just a lazy bastard.


----------



## CyberRose (Aug 17, 2022)

We're not lazy, we're efficient...


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 17, 2022)

“Why is morale so low” asks politician earning thrice the national average wage to the ceo earning 1000 times more.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 17, 2022)

If anyone agrees with truss about lazy Brit workers, then feel free to take onboard my allocation of work and put it to good use


----------



## emanymton (Aug 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I’d like to state for the record that I am fiercely and proudly unproductive.





Ranbay said:


> This, earn over 50k and work as very little as I can, constantly leave early and piss about on my phone
> 
> And I don't even live anywhere near that London.


Well of course you two are unproductive. As we all know, the more someone is paid the less productive work they actually do.


----------



## wow (Aug 17, 2022)

Humberto said:


> You don't talk like you have any wisdom. This is it for you. This is all you've got. As far as it goes.
> 
> Silly person.


I don’t see “must demonstrate proof of wisdom” in the forum rules, though. Which probably does us both a favour.


bluescreen said:


> They should get a room. Or at least, one of them should and then Pickman's doesn't need to visit.
> So tedious, it's almost as bad as the Tory leadership contest.


Stop licking his arse.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 17, 2022)

wow said:


> I don’t see “must demonstrate proof of wisdom” in the forum rules, though. Which probably does us both a favour.
> 
> Stop licking his arse.



I'm certain it does. But this dreary nonsense is all you've got.


----------



## Sue (Aug 17, 2022)

So I haven't heard the news all day. Did Truss and Sunak manage to unite the people of Belfast in loathing and if not, why not?


----------



## wow (Aug 17, 2022)

Humberto said:


> I'm certain it does. But this dreary nonsense is all you've got.


It doesn’t. And, whatever.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 17, 2022)

wow said:


> It doesn’t. And, whatever.


You just said it did. I agreed. Whatever.


----------



## wow (Aug 17, 2022)

Humberto said:


> You just said it did. I agreed. Whatever.


Gaslight. Gaslight. Copy/Paste.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 17, 2022)

WTF is this fuckery, why have I been tagged and why is this fucker tolerated? 

In other news elsewhere, peace and light. 

Peace and light.


----------



## wow (Aug 17, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> WTF is this fuckery, why have I been tagged and why is this fucker tolerated?
> 
> In other news elsewhere, peace and light.
> 
> Peace and light.


I wholeheartedly apologise. My reply to you was completely out of order.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 18, 2022)

wow said:


> I wholeheartedly apologise. My reply to you was completely out of order.


Apology schmapology. 

Please get lost.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 18, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> We're not lazy, we're efficient...
> 
> View attachment 338133



Exactly. Work smart, not hard.

I'm plenty productive, but on my own terms.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 18, 2022)

contadino said:


> Readers of right-wing rags like the Telegraph are happy reading anything that tells them they can do exactly as they wish. Driving, flying, eating meat, etc.. When the message changes to 'go without' or 'not any more' they're gonna get rather tetchy. Being told that not being able to afford to eat is no longer just something that affects other people is going to be a tough pill to swallow.



It’s subtle but it’s all part of the blanket propaganda machine. Like todays Express.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It’s subtle but it’s all part of the blanket propaganda machine. Like todays Express.



2019 wants its story back What mouldy foods are safe to eat?


----------



## two sheds (Aug 18, 2022)

In fairness though, Daily Express readers should eat as much mouldy food as they can be given.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> In fairness though, Daily Express readers should eat as much mouldy food as they can be given.


----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 18, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It’s subtle but it’s all part of the blanket propaganda machine. Like todays Express.







			
				 A Shite Rag said:
			
		

> Apples - be wary as a toxin called patulin can be found in damaged or mouldy apples.






			
				 A Shite Rag said:
			
		

> Bread - “I would cut the mouldy bit off and eat it. It’s not going to do you any harm,” Alice explained. The FSA advises against salvaging mouldy bread, as porous food can be contaminated below the surface. As a general rule, mould of 1cm in diameter on the surface has penetrated 1cm deep into the food.



So even in their own story they don't agree with the picture.


----------



## bemused (Aug 18, 2022)

Maybe I'm utterly out of touch but given the choice of Sunak or Truss I'd pick Sunak because oddly he comes over more normal (as normal as a billionaire can be) than Truss who is as likeable puppet with its strings cut. Starmer must be doing a jig thinking about Truss winning.


----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 18, 2022)

What seems odder is there are currently.
A Climate Crisis
An Energy Supply Crisis
A Cost of Living Crisis

Then Truss's main focus is "Too Much Woke" and it's Woke to do anything about the crisis above.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 18, 2022)

bemused said:


> Maybe I'm utterly out of touch but given the choice of Sunak or Truss I'd pick Sunak because oddly he comes over more normal (as normal as a billionaire can be) than Truss who is as likeable puppet with its strings cut. Starmer must be doing a jig thinking about Truss winning.




Are you a frothing Conservative party member?


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 18, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> So even in their own story they don't agree with the picture.


who has bread they can afford to toss out anyway?


----------



## rubbershoes (Aug 18, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Are you a frothing Conservative party member?



Aren't we all? Have I joined the wrong board? 

I've noticed over the years that some posts on here don't chime completely with tory attitudes


----------



## bemused (Aug 18, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Are you a frothing Conservative party member?


I vote Green. 

It's kinda a choice with knife or gun with the Tory leadership.


----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> who has bread they can afford to toss out anyway?


I keep mine in the freezer, and use as required.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 18, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> I keep mine in the freezer, and use as required.




The wife is baffled by some papers recently announcing this as a top tip. Like who doesn’t freeze bread if they have a freeze?


----------



## strung out (Aug 18, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> The wife is baffled by some papers recently announcing this as a top tip. Like who doesn’t freeze bread if they have a freeze?


It's hard to slice when it's frozen.


----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 18, 2022)

strung out said:


> It's hard to slice when it's frozen.


Do you know you can buy it sliced


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 18, 2022)

strung out said:


> It's hard to slice when it's frozen.


Defrost it. Slice it. Freeze it again. Defrost when required. If necessary stick the slices back together again.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 18, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Do you know you can buy it sliced



Or slice before freezing.

#lifehack

I like the continental shops where you bung it in the machine. Bread is the best part of going to Europe.


----------



## strung out (Aug 18, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Do you know you can buy it sliced


I don't want it pre-sliced.


----------



## contadino (Aug 18, 2022)

Home made fresh bread every (most) morning(s).

#insomniasnotallbadnews


----------



## spitfire (Aug 18, 2022)

I submitted my signature on the petition to keep Johnson on a couple of weeks ago. Just for shits and giggles.

Just had 2 emails from them with a template as follows. Have replied.



I apologise in advance if this succeeds and we get Johnson back.


----------



## spitfire (Aug 18, 2022)

Weird wording..."the majority of which have been sent...".

Doesn't exactly exude confidence in their method.


----------



## xenon (Aug 18, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> The wife is baffled by some papers recently announcing this as a top tip. Like who doesn’t freeze bread if they have a freeze?



Yeah like other top tips such as freezing milk. Not leaving the bathroom tap running whilst brushing your teeth. how these people manage to even read a newspaper I don’t know.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> who has bread they can afford to toss out anyway?


anyone who feeds birds with it


----------



## Raheem (Aug 18, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Weird wording..."the majority of which have been sent...".


= "Just under half were so obviously taking the piss we didn't think we could get away with including them. The rest we're not sure about."


----------



## xenon (Aug 18, 2022)

strung out said:


> I don't want it pre-sliced.



Do you want the moon on a stick.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 18, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Weird wording..."the majority of which have been sent...".
> 
> Doesn't exactly exude confidence in their method.
> 
> View attachment 338322



I assume they filter out Lord Umungous of the Wastlands, the Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla entries 

But maybe not.


----------



## stavros (Aug 18, 2022)

strung out said:


> It's hard to slice when it's frozen.





Storm Fox said:


> Do you know you can buy it sliced





Kevbad the Bad said:


> Defrost it. Slice it. Freeze it again. Defrost when required. If necessary stick the slices back together again.


Back to the thread topic, Sunak and Truss are particularly appealing to the crusty bits.


----------



## wow (Aug 18, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Apology schmapology.
> 
> Please get lost.


Wowsers.

I’ve always apologised when I’ve overstepped the mark. 

My apology to you still stands. I was out of order. 

I won’t get lost though. Why should I?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2022)

Anyone who says wowsers is already lost


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 18, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Do you know you can buy it sliced



yes, it's the greatest thing since...  

umm...


----------



## wow (Aug 18, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Anyone who says wowsers is already lost


Glass houses


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 18, 2022)

people who live in glass houses should pull the blinds before changing their trousers...


----------



## wow (Aug 18, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> people who live in glass houses should pull the blinds before changing their trousers...


Only if they feel ashamed


----------



## two sheds (Aug 18, 2022)

Any thoughts about the subject of the thread at all?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Any thoughts about the subject of the thread at all?


You're being silly now.


----------



## wow (Aug 18, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Any thoughts about the subject of the thread at all?


Yes. As I’ve said many times, Truss will win.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 18, 2022)

wow said:


> Only if they feel ashamed


Or like their privacy, and don't want to offend their neighbours . Think it's called common decency. Wowsers look no trousers. We see you


----------



## wow (Aug 19, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Or like their privacy, and don't want to offend their neighbours . Think it's called common decency. Wowsers look no trousers. We see you


What’s your definition of common decency?

Is it something as commonly decent as this:



Pickman's model said:


> Oh noes an irrelevant wankstain's called me a cunt  yeh now I'm no longer going to reply to the little shit he'll only have you to play with. So we'll soon see if he plays with anti-semites



We see you? I see you right back, you damn hypocrite.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 19, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> people who live in glass houses should pull the blinds before changing their trousers...


Then what would be the point of glass houses?


----------



## contadino (Aug 19, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Any thoughts about the subject of the thread at all?


We're toast.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 19, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Anyone who says wowsers is already lost





Puddy_Tat said:


> people who live in glass houses should pull the blinds before changing their trousers...


Is 'wowsers' Cockney rhyming slang for 'trousers'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> Is 'wowsers' Cockney rhyming slang for 'trousers'?


callards, apparently, from callard and bowsers


----------



## existentialist (Aug 19, 2022)

wow said:


> What’s your definition of common decency?
> 
> Is it something as commonly decent as this:
> 
> ...


----------



## two sheds (Aug 19, 2022)

Graft, skill and application shortly coming to British workers once inconvenient H&S red tape has been eliminated.


----------



## killer b (Aug 19, 2022)

This is a genuine advert for the Rishi Sunak campaign.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2022)

wow said:


> We see you? I see you right back, you damn hypocrite.


It's time you took a trip to specsavers.


----------



## weepiper (Aug 19, 2022)

Multi-millionaire Rishi 'went to Winchester then Oxford, worked for Goldman Sachs and married a woman wealthier than the Queen' Sunak? _That_ underdog?


----------



## killer b (Aug 19, 2022)

You'd have thought he could afford less weird and deranged promotional clips tbh.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> You'd have thought he could afford less weird and deranged promotional clips tbh.



Just because they're shit doesn't mean they were cheap. Someone is laughing all the way to their coke dealer for sure.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 19, 2022)

Is he perhaps concerned about his posh background that he had to have such a rough, tough voiceover?


----------



## Spandex (Aug 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> This is a genuine advert for the Rishi Sunak campaign.



I kept expecting it to turn into this:


----------



## JimW (Aug 19, 2022)

He could combine his underdog pitch with a claim that he can crack the cost of living crisis - Sunak: Undercrackers is our working title.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 19, 2022)

Gove  is backing Sunak. He says that Liz Truss’s campaign has been a “holiday from reality” and that her tax cuts will put “the stock options of FTSE 100 executives” before the poorest. Well, he's not wrong there. But he probably is wrong when he says Sunak "will put the strength of the state at the service of the weakest” and provide millions of people with the support they need during the cost of living crisis.








						Liz Truss’s plans are a holiday from reality, says Michael Gove
					

Michael Gove has endorsed Rishi Sunak for the Conservative leadership and announced that he is bringing his career in frontline politics to a close.Writing i




					www.thetimes.co.uk
				




paywall busted:


			archive.ph
		


Oh, and Gove says he's not expecting to be in government again.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 19, 2022)

Jennifer Williams report on the hustings on Twitter is a good read


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 19, 2022)




----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 19, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>



Christ.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 20, 2022)

I doubt Liz would know a fact if it flew through the window and pecked her on the nose


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 20, 2022)

Not sure if it's that tory members can't tell that Truss is as thick as a whale's cock or they just don't think that this should disqualify her from running a medium sized country with nuclear weapons in it.

Suspect it's the latter. As long as she keeps pebbledashing the toilet bowl of public discourse with her foetid nuggets of 'anti-woke' nihilism these miserable twats will keep gobbling them up and clamouring for more.


----------



## killer b (Aug 20, 2022)

It's funny 'cause apparently one of the reasons the party insisted on having a full contest this time was that May's inadequacies would apparently have been exposed under the scrutiny of a campaign and she probably wouldn't have ended up as leader. And yet here we are.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not sure if it's that tory members can't tell that Truss is as thick as a whale's cock or they just don't think that this should disqualify her from running a medium sized country with nuclear weapons in it.


Unfortunately, looking around the world, no personality defect seems to prevent anyone from having control over nuclear weapons, no matter how big the country.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 20, 2022)

If Truss wins which looks highly likely it's going to be an absolute disaster for the poor and disadvantaged not that it would be a great deal better under Sunak's leadership. I take a certain amount of comfort that the opinion polls are showing the vermin as tanking right now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 20, 2022)

teqniq said:


> If Truss wins which looks highly likely it's going to be an absolute disaster for the poor and disadvantaged not that it would be a great deal better under Sunak's leadership. I take a certain amount of comfort that the opinion polls are showing the vermin as tanking right now.


Yeh. But there's only one poll that matters and we'll see that most likely in 2024. And there is no guarantee 'the vermin' will lose the next election.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. But there's only one poll that matters and we'll see that most likely in 2024. And there is no guarantee 'the vermin' will lose the next election.


Looking at the Labour Party one type of vermin or another will win it.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. But there's only one poll that matters and we'll see that most likely in 2024. And there is no guarantee 'the vermin' will lose the next election.


I am fully aware of this. It is, of course an absolute given.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 20, 2022)

teqniq said:


> I am fully aware of this. It is, of course an absolute given.


Yeh. Being pleased by today's polls is as worthwhile as breathing in coffee steam and expecting sustenance


----------



## teqniq (Aug 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. Being pleased by today's polls is as worthwhile as breathing in coffee steam and expecting sustenance


I did not say I was pleased. I said I took 'a certain amount of comfort' They may be tanking now but 2024 could paint an entirely different picture. Personally I would only really be satisfied with heads on pikes or penguin food or whatever. I've more than had enough of the corrupt venal scum.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 20, 2022)

Doom.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Doom.



Continuity Johnson minus his intelligence


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 20, 2022)

Who is the cunt, sorry, current, levelling up secretary? Mogg is the Minister for Brexit Opportunities, whatever those are. Is there even a levelling up secretary? Isn't that something you do in Warcraft?


----------



## Cerv (Aug 20, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Who is the cunt, sorry, current, levelling up secretary? Mogg is the Minister for Brexit Opportunities, whatever those are. Is there even a levelling up secretary? Isn't that something you do in Warcraft?


it's Gove.
officially Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. levelling up got added on cos it was part of Johnson's campaign slogans. so dunno why Truss would bother keeping it.


----------



## andysays (Aug 20, 2022)

Cerv said:


> it's Gove.
> officially Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. levelling up got added on cos it was part of Johnson's campaign slogans. so dunno why Truss would bother keeping it.


Gove was sacked from the position when he suggested Johnson should resign



> The Rt Hon Greg Clark was appointed Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities on 7 July 2022. He was previously Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy from July 2016 to July 2019. He was elected Conservative MP for Royal Tunbridge Wells in 2005.



(Me neither, TBH)


----------



## kabbes (Aug 20, 2022)

Who’s going to be Truss’ minister for pork markets?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Who’s going to be Truss’ minister for pork markets?



Arlene Foster


----------



## BCBlues (Aug 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Who’s going to be Truss’ minister for pork markets?



Cameron to make a comeback?


----------



## stdP (Aug 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Who’s going to be Truss’ minister for pork markets?



Cameron's at a loose end isn't he? He can mix business with pleasure and can personally oversee the process for adding additives to the goods to make sure it's a proper sub-standard Britain 2022 product.

I have wondered over the last few weeks if Truss' brain might actually _be_ stilton cheese, but have discounted it on the ground that some mouldy curdled milk for a leader is a more appealing prospect than any on the table.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Aug 20, 2022)

We are about to face a genuine humanitarian crisis this winter. We are sleep-walking full-bore towards it. Truss is just a zombie. Her Thatcherite pronouncements have a sacramental quality, hearing voices, seeing visions, like a Lunatic Joan of Arc. No rationality there.

We're in bad shape. This is going to be bad


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 20, 2022)

Absolutely batshit insane.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Absolutely batshit insane.



Is this real? This would lead to unprecedented demand for already overworked and understaffed surgeries. Is that deliberate? Who would you take your prescription to? BP?

This is nuts


----------



## Raheem (Aug 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Absolutely batshit insane.



Yes, and won't happen. But if it is the sort of thing our best PPE graduates have come up with, think we can infer that they have been asked for ways that support can be announced but made as hard as possible to obtain.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 20, 2022)

Leveling up to Mogg means bringing back indentured servitude


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Absolutely batshit insane.



Not even vaguely impervious to abuse or fraud


----------



## emanymton (Aug 20, 2022)

Gove backs Sunak and says Truss is ‘taking holiday from reality’
					

Former cabinet minister says he does not expect to return to frontbench politics as he backs underdog in race to be PM




					www.theguardian.com
				




I... I don't have words for this.



> “Proposed cuts to national insurance would favour the wealthy, and changes to corporation tax apply to big businesses, not small entrepreneurs.* I cannot see how safeguarding the stock options of FTSE 100 executives should ever take precedence over supporting the poorest in our society*, but at a time of want, it cannot be the right priority.”


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 20, 2022)

bemused said:


> I vote Green.


Tories on bikes then.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 20, 2022)

bemused said:


> It's kinda a choice with knife or gun with the Tory leadership.


Its the same with anything to do with parliamentary politics.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Aug 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Absolutely batshit insane.



Monkey tennis politics


----------



## SysOut (Aug 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Absolutely batshit insane.



Kate Ferguson - Political Editor for The Sun:


> The blueprint is one of a bunch of options No11 boffins are kicking around.



A blueprint is a reproduction of a technical drawing or engineering drawing using a contact print process on light-sensitive sheets.
Boffin is a British slang term for a scientist, engineer, or other person engaged in technical or scientific research and development. The World War II conception of boffins as war-winning researchers lends the term a more positive connotation than related terms...
Why doesn't she call herself Biggles?


----------



## agricola (Aug 20, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Kate Ferguson - Political Editor for The Sun:
> 
> 
> A blueprint is a reproduction of a technical drawing or engineering drawing using a contact print process on light-sensitive sheets.
> ...



Biggles was one of the good guys


----------



## stavros (Aug 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Doom.



Badenoch was "one of the standout performers"? Was she? How?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 20, 2022)

stavros said:


> Badenoch was "one of the standout performers"? Was she? How?



Frothing mad enough to look like she had a chance of doing well despite being a complete unknown.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 20, 2022)

If that grotesque creature Coffey goes, who takes over at the DWP?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 20, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> who takes over at the DWP?


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 20, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> If that grotesque creature Coffey goes, who takes over at the DWP?


They are all morally grotesque. It is a shitshow.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 20, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> If that grotesque creature Coffey goes, who takes over at the DWP?


This makes a change from the usual pic of Coffey looking breathless in a blazer.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 20, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


>



If I had to meet either him or Iain Duncan Smith though...


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> If I had to meet either him or Iain Duncan Smith though...


You have a preference?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 20, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> You have a preference?



Death is sound, I'd offer him a curry and talk about cats.

IDS I'd buy popcorn to watch if someone threw him in the river with weights around his head.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Death is sound, I'd offer him a curry and talk about cats.
> 
> IDS I'd buy popcorn to watch if someone threw him in the river with weights around his head.


Haha, sorry - I thought it was a choice between IDS and Coffey. But yeah, Death FTW


----------



## campanula (Aug 20, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> This makes a change from the usual pic of Coffey looking breathless in a blazer.



repulsive hateful shit.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 20, 2022)

campanula said:


> repulsive hateful shit.


Do you mean her, or the way she's being depicted? I did feel a bit off posting it but OTOH this is her, and she doesn't GAF.


----------



## campanula (Aug 20, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Do you mean her, or the way she's being depicted? I did feel a bit off posting it but OTOH this is her, and she doesn't GAF.


Her - seems like a compelling and entirely realistic depiction of the vile cunt she actually is. Filth.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 20, 2022)

campanula said:


> Her - seems like a compelling and entirely realistic depiction of the vile cunt she actually is. Filth.


Phew. That's what I thought too. She is appalling. And stupid the way so many of the Tory rump are.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 21, 2022)

Hahaha:

Bring back Boris: Why swing voters don’t trust Truss or Sunak

Richard the plumber, if he's even real sounds completely deluded.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 21, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Hahaha:
> 
> Bring back Boris: Why swing voters don’t trust Truss or Sunak
> 
> Richard the plumber, if he's even real sounds completely deluded.


One of my customers wants him back. Then banged on about how no one will ever be as good as thatcher! If I wasn't skint I'd have walked after chopping down here favourite shrubs. FFS.


----------



## Duncan2 (Aug 21, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> One of my customers wants him back. Then banged on about how no one will ever be as good as thatcher! If I wasn't skint I'd have walked after chopping down here favourite shrubs. FFS.


----------



## Duncan2 (Aug 21, 2022)

Meant to reply in the post above that it baffles me why the Tories and Truss in particular seem to think that the time is right for a second coming of Margaret Thatcher,that the public are now ready for this.Of course I move in entirely different circles but even so I think they have just got this wrong.Everyone I know is well aware by now of the long-term dreadful consequences of her policies and she is quite rightly universally despised.Surely there will have to be a new GE before the year is out?


----------



## SysOut (Aug 21, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Surely there will have to be a new GE before the year is out?



It almost seems as if some higher power is preparing the way for Starmer.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 21, 2022)

SysOut said:


> It almost seems as if some higher power is preparing the way for Starmer.



I don't care if he's backed by the ghost of Elvis Presley I'm still not voting for the cunt.


----------



## contadino (Aug 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't care if he's backed by the ghost of Elvis Presley I'm still not voting for the cunt.


So you like Tory control, then?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 21, 2022)

contadino said:


> So you like Tory control, then?



No, which is why I wouldn't vote for Starmer.


----------



## flypanam (Aug 21, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Meant to reply in the post above that it baffles me why the Tories and Truss in particular seem to think that the time is right for a second coming of Margaret Thatcher,that the public are now ready for this.Of course I move in entirely different circles but even so I think they have just got this wrong.Everyone I know is well aware by now of the long-term dreadful consequences of her policies and she is quite rightly universally despised.Surely there will have to be a new GE before the year is out?


Because the Tory extremist looks back at the 80’s as a glorious time of endless wealth and most of them bought their first house around that time.


----------



## moochedit (Aug 21, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Surely there will have to be a new GE before the year is out?


They have an 80 seat majority* and last election was Dec 2019 IIRC so they can wait until 2024 if they want to.

*approx. They have lost a few byelections etc.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 21, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> .Surely there will have to be a new GE before the year is out?


Why?


----------



## Duncan2 (Aug 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Why?


With luck General Strike in November dissatisfaction with Tory mismanagement of just about everything over the last several years closely followed by fall of the government.Or am I being optimistic?


----------



## gosub (Aug 21, 2022)

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/liz-truss-talks-down-fears-of-a-recession-saying-uk-must-have-more-ambition_uk_6301e07ae4b0e323a2563bbc?ncid=flipboard-HP


----------



## emanymton (Aug 21, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> With luck General Strike in November dissatisfaction with Tory mismanagement of just about everything over the last several years closely followed by fall of the government.Or am I being optimistic?


Widely optimistic if you ask me. Still even if you are right we just get Stammer. So maybe not optimistic enough.


----------



## wow (Aug 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Why?


There’ll need to be after the October riots


----------



## Knotted (Aug 22, 2022)

It's probably worth noting that Truss only has the backing of a minority of the parliamentary party and Gove is calling her tax plans a "holiday from reality". She's going to win the leadership election of course, but she's going to be facing a war of attrition from her own party from the off.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 22, 2022)

Knotted said:


> It's probably worth noting that Truss only has the backing of a minority of the parliamentary party and Gove is calling her tax plans a "holiday from reality". She's going to win the leadership election of course, but she's going to be facing a war of attrition from her own party from the off.



And everything is shit and will only get worse as we head into winter. And Truss' only solution to any of the massive structural problems is 'graft', so I think we can rule out that working.


----------



## Knotted (Aug 22, 2022)

I think all this story says is that Keir Starmer's team think the public are stupid, influenced by first impressions and easily manipulated by the media. I don't think this bounce is going to happen because COST OF LIVING CRISIS. People of all classes, left and right, pay attention to the money flowing out of their pockets and won't be fobbed off by peanuts tax cuts.









						Liz Truss’s arrival in No 10 ‘could deliver Tories a big bounce in polls’
					

Exclusive: leaked Labour analysis says foreign secretary could revive party’s fortunes – but effect may be short-lived




					www.theguardian.com
				




I think there are some arguments to be made for the possibility of a snap election along these lines. These are bad arguments I think, but I wouldn't rule a snap election out, because who knows what Truss is thinking...


----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 22, 2022)

I would suspect that they are playing mind games here. If there is any bounce at all; which a doubt, the Labour can claim they were expecting a double-digit bounce and how shit must Truss be to only get 2%. Plus the tories cannot say they only expect a small bounce because that looks shit too. After all Truss is the natural successor to Thatcher (or something)


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Aug 22, 2022)

It's blatantly a labour leak.  They're banking on Truss (a) being so arrogant as to ignore all sensible advice, and (b) being so mind-blowingly thick as to believe in a completely made up 10%+ bounce during the middle of a cost of living crisis that will very soon see general strikes and wide scale civil unrest.

In government for another 2 years plus guaranteed, massive majority, but with a looming recession + dead people + riots.  Gee let me think, is calling a snap election a good idea?


----------



## Smangus (Aug 22, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> In government for another 2 years plus guaranteed, massive majority, but with a looming recession + dead people + riots.  Gee let me think, is calling a snap election a good idea?



Based on her current form, it probably does to Truss tbf


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 22, 2022)

Yeah this is like those 'leaks' before (council) elections that state the the government is expecting going to lose hundreds of seats or the opposition only expecting gain a couple. 

I suspect that there might be a minor boost - Johnson will have gone, the sleaze stories have not been in the press for a few months - but this 'analysis' is crap. Pure expectation management and it's pathetic of the Guardian to not call it out as such.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 22, 2022)

Knotted said:


> who knows what Truss is thinking...


My worry is she knows she has no hope of winning the next election, so she plans to be a hero to a tiny minority by creating a whole heap of mess and suffering. The tiny minority will, of course, then disown her.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Aug 23, 2022)




----------



## Knotted (Aug 23, 2022)

This is quite remarkable









						Revealed: The leader Tory voters would prefer
					

Sympathy for the former prime minister despite partygate




					www.independent.co.uk
				




That's voters not members, although anecdotally this rings true.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 23, 2022)

Knotted said:


> This is quite remarkable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that is bad reporting by the Independent, "supporters". The polling YouGov did was of members (unless there is some other poll).


> While Liz Truss is the clear favourite over Rishi Sunak, her popularity pales in comparison to the outgoing Boris Johnson. Indeed, when asked who they would vote for if the ballot also included the current Prime Minister, members would much prefer Johnson (46%) over both Sunak (23%) or Truss (24%).


EDIT: 'Supporters' seems just to be a c&p from the Times itself. And it does seem to be a different survey to the one above, I think the polling was of people who voted Conservative in 2019, though it is such a badly written partisan piece that it is not clear exactly who it is referring to. 

----
Article 

Conservative voters have “sellers’ remorse” over the ousting of Boris Johnson and would prefer him as prime minister over the two rivals vying to be his successor, focus group research and polling for _The Times _reveals today.

Interviews with floating voters in marginal constituencies found little enthusiasm for either Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak becoming the next Conservative leader.

This was backed up by polling that found 49 per cent of Tory supporters thought Johnson should remain prime minister — more than the combined support for both Truss and Sunak.


At the time Johnson quit most of the country believed he had to go, suggesting the Conservative Party leadership contest has triggered a change of heart. From April onwards at least half of Britons believed Johnson should resign, according to YouGov polling.

On July 5, two days before Johnson resigned, 69 per cent of the country thought he should quit, including 54 per cent of 2019 Conservative voters.

But _Times_ research indicates that neither Truss nor Sunak have proved to the country that they can do any better.
“The others have not had to deal with everything he’s had to,” said Richard, a plumber in the marginal seat of Southampton Itchen.

“He stepped straight in and it was Brexit and then it was Covid and now it’s the war in Ukraine. Everybody waffles on about, he should have done this, he should have done that. But I’d like to see them in his shoes.”
Voters in the red wall seat of Oldham East & Saddleworth agreed. Only one of the group thought Johnson ought to be replaced, even though “you can’t deny all he’s done wrong”.

One said: “If he would have failed or succeeded, we’ll never know now. But he should have been given the opportunity.”
Even voters in the so-called blue wall seat of Esher & Walton felt he had been unfairly ousted. “I really liked Boris and I was really, really disappointed in the way he was treated,” said one swing voter. “They’re picking on minor things. You know, furnishings and wallpaper and making such a big deal about it. And it’s the media. The media are the ones that turn everyone against him.”

_The Times_ conducted focus groups, organised by the policy research firm Public First, in three areas of the country that formed the bedrock of Johnson’s 2019 victory. The paper also commissioned YouGov to do a nationwide survey of voters to gauge attitudes towards the leadership race and the two contenders to be Britain’s next prime minister.
Both found little enthusiasm for either Truss or Sunak and a widespread belief that the Tories had badly damaged the reputation of the party by ousting Johnson before waging a bitter battle to succeed him.

Forty per cent of voters who chose the Tories in 2019 said the contest had made them think worse of the party while under a quarter were convinced of the candidates’ plans to tackle the cost of living crisis.
“Quite honestly, they all talk rubbish, because it’s like going for a job interview,” said Stacey, a buyer who works for a house building firm. “You’re going to say that you’re wonderful but when it comes down to it are any of them actually going to follow through? Because somebody needs to right now. The whole world is going crazy and a lot of people at the minute need help.”


Our panel’s verdicts

Hans, a headteacher from Esher, said he thought “Liz Truss writes the policies on the back of a fag packet and shoots from the hip”. Claire, a 55-year-old receptionist, said she had always voted Tory but was “very concerned” about both candidates.
“One of them is going to get in so all we can do is hope,” she said. When the group was asked to describe each of the candidates, Sunak was variously called “slimy”, “cringey” and a “backstabber” while Truss was characterised as “awkward”, “flitty” and “unconvincing”.
Asked in polling, given what they had seen or heard about the leadership election, who would be the best prime minister, 20 per cent said Sunak and 18 per cent Truss. However, 49 per cent said they would prefer Johnson to remain in office with 12 per cent undecided.
With two weeks to go until Johnson’s successor is announced, supporters of Sunak have accused Truss, the frontrunner, of avoiding scrutiny by planning to hold an emergency budget without independent fiscal forecasts.
Truss, meanwhile, is preparing for government with plans to scale back the Cabinet Office, the department at the centre of Whitehall.

Kwasi Kwarteng, Truss’s presumptive chancellor, promised at the weekend that “help is coming” for Britons struggling with the cost of living.

Why focus groups are so important​Late on weekday nights, scores of Westminster insiders’ secret WhatsApp groups flicker and buzz as the evening’s focus groups conclude. Returning home by train from marginal seats in places like Oldham and Southampton, market researchers tap away on their phones, giving target voters’ immediate feedback on the most recent political developments (James Frayne writes).
There is an insatiable desire from political staffers for new intelligence on what ordinary voters think. How did they think the boss did on their weekend media round? What did they think about their new policy proposal? Did voters believe that new attack line on them? Focus groups are the perfect forum to answer such questions.
This desire for focus group intel has grown dramatically in recent years. Previously, many political staffers doubted their merits. Sceptics said they were “just eight guys in a room” and therefore neither representative, nor scientific.
It was Dominic Cummings’s stated reliance on them that persuaded other political consultants to take them seriously. Every campaign Cummings has been involved in for 25 years has obsessed about focus group insights. It became harder and harder to write them off, given his success.


There are three main reasons why they are so useful.
Firstly, unlike conventional polling, they give ordinary voters carte blanche to say whatever is on their minds. Polls provide people with a limited set of options to answer from; focus groups let people say whatever they want. This means focus groups throw up information and ideas that no one in Westminster had thought of.

Secondly, focus groups allow for a two-way conversation impossible to emulate with a poll. Competent moderators with a grasp of policy can get a sense for how an issue is likely to play out when it is properly scrutinised.
Thirdly, they give greater flexibility to test language that politicians might use in interviews, speeches and articles. In most groups, an ordinary voter will perfectly sum up a political argument better than the staffers and politicians ever have. Someone in such a group will have said “just get Brexit done”, and the rest is history.
The _Times_ focus groups followed the model we run for political clients. Bringing together a group of swing voters from important marginal seats, we analysed their responses to leading politicians, their policy proposals, and their presentation and messaging. We asked broad questions to give people the chance to say whatever they wanted, while asking narrower, direct questions to find out their thoughts on specific areas of interest.

If the client had been one of the leadership campaigns, this is what I would be telling them by WhatsApp (with language suitably sanitised):
I cannot emphasise enough: almost all voters are exasperated with the trivia of the race. They do not know why you are talking about anything other than the cost of living, given many families face a total financial wipeout.
They want to know you understand their lives and care about them, and they want to know you have a specific plan to get them out of the hole they are falling into. They are tuning out most policy announcements on the economy because they feel laughable in the face of the scale of the problem.
The mood is increasingly ugly. Like 15 years ago, an “anti-politics” sentiment is surging in working-class communities particularly. Everyone thinks everything is broken and no one trusts politicians to deliver. While delivering Brexit showed voters politicians could keep promises (for better or worse), many are reverting to the feeling: “It’s all lies.” They want to hear clear, achievable policy proposals; they want competent management. Sunak has a lead on competence when the choice is forced, but suggestions he is out of touch clearly resonate.
There is an additional problem: a significant minority doubt the merits of the whole affair, believing getting rid of Johnson was a mistake. Many loathe him passionately, but many others think he did fine. And, by the way, ask who they would sooner have a drink with — Rishi, Liz, or Boris — and it is not even a question.
Apologies for the bleak assessment but, if anything, I have underplayed the scale of your problem.
_James Frayne is a founding partner of Public First_


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 23, 2022)

So many threads this could go in....


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 23, 2022)

All scum


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> So many threads this could go in....
> 
> View attachment 339206


----------



## bemused (Aug 23, 2022)

Watching them flap about boat crossing today. So I seen them blame: 'the European definition of asylum (whatever the hell that is), the French, the EU, the UN, the basic principle if you see someone downing you help them and lefty lawyers. Everyone in fact but them. The government has over 100,000 outstanding claims, if they cleared them as fast as dodgy PPE contract they've have deported everyone will an invalid claim and released thousands of people who walked thousands of miles to get here into the workforce.


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 23, 2022)

Another battle showcasing how far we done fallen. A measure which was originally taken by politicians just clever enough to realise they needed a way to dilute blame for economic crashes, being debated between a candidate who's just bright enough to continue doing so but not bright enough to beat his opponent, and a candidate so arrogant she doesn't even realise how stupid she is for suggesting taking that power back directly before an economic crash hits.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 23, 2022)




----------



## tommers (Aug 23, 2022)

"I want to take on this lefty woke culture."

Fucking hell mate. Not got any other shit to think about?


----------



## two sheds (Aug 23, 2022)

complaining about the effects on people of energy bills comes under lefty woke culture too.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Aug 23, 2022)

I still can't believe how long this process has been. And it's still ongoing. Surely everyone has switched off by now? Even the truly fascinated must've got bored a couple of months ago. It's often said time speeds up as you age, so perhaps we should thank the Tories for showing that once in a blue moon, it still slows down.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 23, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 23, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I still can't believe how long this process has been. And it's still ongoing. Surely everyone has switched off by now? Even the truly fascinated must've got bored a couple of months ago. It's often said time speeds up as you age, so perhaps we should thank the Tories for showing that once in a blue moon, it still slows down.



Its the fucking depressing nature of the way they suck up airtime and news articles with this shit. 99% of the UK have no input into this "race" but we keep having to hear the same dull speeches about Woke and Workers Not Grafting spouted out by them.


----------



## weltweit (Aug 23, 2022)

The only card carrying voter I know just voted for Sunak.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 23, 2022)

Positioning himself as a real cunts' cunt, there.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 23, 2022)




----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 23, 2022)

tommers said:


> Fucking hell mate. Not got any other shit to think about?


Not in comfortable Tory membership land - all other topics (cost of living crisis/inflation, disease, climate crisis, trade, food shortages, water shortages, energy shortages, personnel crises in health, education, firefighting, transport etc) aren't to be looked at. Wokeness, immigration and sky high taxes are where it's at. And maybe war as long as it's through the lens of brave Britain leading Europe against the Russkies.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 23, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



I'm surprised no-one's ever pushed the button before. Still, we're free of the EU yoke now. We can do as we see fit.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 23, 2022)

It's like the Cunt Olympics on the Harrowing Channel


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 23, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




Well, nice knowing you all I guess.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 23, 2022)

week after week of having no virtues signalling


----------



## Humberto (Aug 23, 2022)

They are leading us _all_ into utter ruin and have the dogs straining to go if we flinch. Sick bastards.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 23, 2022)

It's sadistic. Bullying. Selfishness.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 23, 2022)

ska invita said:


> week after week of having no virtues signalling



there ought to be a phrase for the opposite of virtue signalling that tories go in for...


----------



## killer b (Aug 23, 2022)

Prospective PMs saying they'd press the button doesn't mean anything, it's just a weird English politics ritual like black rod and the like.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 23, 2022)

I'm talking more about the blame it on benefit claimants, British workers are shirkers, culture war onanism they all love to indulge themselves with while the country goes into a crisis.


----------



## tommers (Aug 23, 2022)

She said she didn't like it, but she'd have to go along with it.


----------



## SysOut (Aug 23, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> there ought to be a phrase for the opposite of virtue signalling that tories go in for...


True Blue Tory signalling.

The Tories don't believe in virtue - they believe in the worst of human nature - greed and callousness.

edited2add: e.g. they support killing animals for fun.


----------



## Humberto (Aug 23, 2022)

tommers said:


> She said she didn't like it, but she'd have to go along with it.


tommers earlier


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 24, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> there ought to be a phrase for the opposite of virtue signalling that tories go in for...


Iniquity signalling?


----------



## Humberto (Aug 24, 2022)

Sewage nodes.


----------



## SysOut (Aug 24, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Iniquity signalling?


Nastiness signalling


----------



## stdP (Aug 24, 2022)

"Hurt you"-signalling.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 24, 2022)

killer b said:


> Prospective PMs saying they'd press the button doesn't mean anything, it's just a weird English politics ritual like black rod and the like.




It’s an anti Corbyn measure I think, never used to be a regular question till we had a potential pacifist in charge


----------



## Supine (Aug 24, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It’s an anti Corbyn measure I think, never used to be a regular question till we had a potential pacifist in charge



It has been a regular question since i was born.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 24, 2022)

Supine said:


> It has been a regular question since i was born.


That’s an interesting reply and I realised I’d not been paying attention to whether or not party leaders had explicitly  been asked that question in GE campaigns or leadership elections. My assumption was that, pre-Corbyn,it was always presumed that anyone aspiring to PM would automatically accept that potentially  pressing the ‘big red button’ went with the job. I really don’t recall any other potential PMs being asked that.


----------



## Supine (Aug 24, 2022)

Maybe there have been more questions in the press around whether the left wing candidate would press the button. It wouldn’t surprise me with the right wing press.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 24, 2022)

Supine said:


> It has been a regular question since i was born.



Maybe I’ve just never paid that much attention.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 24, 2022)

Supine said:


> Maybe there have been more questions in the press around whether the left wing candidate would press the button. It wouldn’t surprise me with the right wing press.



It was weeks of headlines with Corbyn


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It was weeks of headlines with Corbyn


Months of questions about his loyalty and patriotism


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Months of questions about his loyalty and patriotism



Years.

Nobody ever did congratulate him for putting on a smart tie either.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 24, 2022)

Perhaps Miliband was asked as well?
After all, he did chose a father who hated his own country.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Years.
> 
> Nobody ever did congratulate him for putting on a smart tie either.


Every time he went to the cenotaph


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 24, 2022)

IIRC Kinnock got asked this in the 87 campaign. And dealt with it badly - waffling on about how - rather then pressing the button -  they would ensure that a russian occupation of the uk would be made "untenable".


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 24, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Perhaps Miliband was asked as well?
> After all, he did chose a father who hated his own country.



You've got to love how relentlessly trash-talking the general public, pumping shit into the rivers and selling off whatever bits of the country they can't actively destroy to the lowest bidder doesn't count as 'hating this country'.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 24, 2022)

Supine said:


> It has been a regular question since i was born.


Not quite, to my memory. It used to be, "Would you go into coalition with the Lib Dems" or equivalent.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 24, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> IIRC Kinnock got asked this in the 87 campaign. And dealt with it badly - waffling on about how - rather then pressing the button -  they would ensure that a russian occupation of the uk would be made "untenable".



I seem to remember it being a question put to kinnock, and a tory election poster along the lines of 'labour's defence policy' and picture of soldiers putting up a flagpole with a white flag


----------



## A380 (Aug 24, 2022)

brogdale said:


> That’s an interesting reply and I realised I’d not been paying attention to whether or not party leaders had explicitly  been asked that question in GE campaigns or leadership elections. My assumption was that, pre-Corbyn,it was always presumed that anyone aspiring to PM would automatically accept that potentially  pressing the ‘big red button’ went with the job. I really don’t recall any other potential PMs being asked that.


It's almost like the Torys have forgotten that it was Clem who spent the money on the  British nuclear weapons programme. The socialist bomb.


----------



## belboid (Aug 24, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I seem to remember it being a question put to kinnock, and a tory election poster along the lines of 'labour's defence policy' and picture of soldiers putting up a flagpole with a white flag


It was definitely asked to Foot too, in ‘83.  He answered in a similar way to Corbyn, iirr. 

It just wasn’t a question until then, _of course_ they would.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 25, 2022)

A380 said:


> It's almost like the Torys have forgotten that it was Clem who spent the money on the  British nuclear weapons programme. The socialist bomb.


Yes, Ernest Bevin was passionate about an independent nuclear deterrent. He didn't trust the USA. It's always been a huge dividing factor in the party. 








						Labour and the bomb: a history of schism
					

Labour has always been divided over Britain's nuclear deterrent - the latest row is just a case of history repeating.




					www.newstatesman.com


----------



## Tanya1982 (Aug 25, 2022)

I've always thought the answer to this question should be 'I couldn't discuss such a serious matter of national security on television, and anyone who would do something so irresponsible - regardless of our international partners, intelligence from the security services, and advice from military chiefs - isn't fit to be prime minister'.

You've taken a firm line without stating what you would actually do, staked a claim to the high ground, probably hung your loose lipped opponent out to dry, while appealing to dignity and your patriotic concern for national security. Even the Daily Mail would have some trouble in successfully tearing you apart on those grounds.


----------



## agricola (Aug 25, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I've always thought the answer to this question should be 'I couldn't discuss such a serious matter of national security on television, and anyone who would do something so irresponsible - regardless of our international partners, intelligence from the security services, and advice from military chiefs - isn't fit to be prime minister'.
> 
> You've taken a firm line without stating what you would actually do, staked a claim to the high ground, probably hung your loose lipped opponent out to dry, while appealing to dignity and your patriotic concern for national security. Even the Daily Mail would have some trouble in successfully tearing you apart on those grounds.



A better one (which I wish Corbyn would have made in 2017) would be to point out that "pushing the button" isn't how our deterrent works.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 25, 2022)

Or you could just say “if it turns out to be the best option”, which is tautologous, basically, and thus says nothing whilst appearing to say yes.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 25, 2022)

"What your asking is if I'd launch a weapon that would cause several hundred thousand people to burn in an instant, the same amount to suffer deadly burns that cause them to die melted, screaming, twisted in agony, cause a tidal wave of cancers and sickness and quite possibly trigger reprisals of the same nature on our own population? Just so we're clear here? Can we return to the favourite biscuit discussion, as that might make out to be less of a psychopath"


----------



## killer b (Aug 25, 2022)

Why wouldn't you just say 'yes' and move as quickly as possible onto something that actually matters?


----------



## JimW (Aug 25, 2022)

No, but I would tweak a knob if circumstances dictated.


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 25, 2022)

The reason tories never get asked whether they'd push the button is that of course they would, they're obvious psychopaths. Tory policies are already set on killing the poor en masse, they have no need for any bomb for that.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 25, 2022)

killer b said:


> Why wouldn't you just say 'yes' and move as quickly as possible onto something that actually matters?



Because even having nuclear weapons in the first place constitutes a war crime?


----------



## killer b (Aug 25, 2022)

When do the trials start? Better be soon, there's a backlog of 80 years of blatant criminality to get through


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 25, 2022)

It’s a long road that has led to now. I don’t like what i see at the destination


----------



## Tanya1982 (Aug 25, 2022)

agricola said:


> A better one (which I wish Corbyn would have made in 2017) would be to point out that "pushing the button" isn't how our deterrent works.


That would prolong the exchange and invite even more dialogue - the last thing anyone would want to do about this subject. It needs to be closed down in a way that doesn't leave open ends, and without you easily being made to look weak by the usual suspects. I'm glad he didn't say that, because the technical discussions that then followed from every angle would've been relentless, and would've just added to what was already said about his responses and feelings.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> It’s a long road that has led to now. I don’t like what i see at the destination


That's not the destination, there's a stop or two more to follow


----------



## A380 (Aug 25, 2022)

“Would I push the nuclear button? That’s the first thing I’m gonna do when I get the keys to Number 10. Fucking Denmark!”


----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 25, 2022)

Sunak says it was a mistake to ‘empower scientists’ during Covid pandemic
					

Ex-chancellor admits being furious about school closures, adding trade-offs of lockdowns were not properly considered by experts




					www.theguardian.com
				






> Rishi Sunak has claimed that it was a mistake to “empower scientists” during the coronavirus pandemic and that his opposition to closing schools was met with silence during one meeting.


Fuck off, then fuck off some more. 😡


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2022)

A380 said:


> “Would I push the nuclear button? That’s the first thing I’m gonna do when I get the keys to Number 10. Fucking Denmark!”


It's OK, they've a dummy one prepared for people like her


----------



## A380 (Aug 25, 2022)

I'm going to re-run my 2020 post...



A380 said:


> Also, picture the scene:  Captain Barrington RN , officer commanding HMS Vigilent the at sea deterrent hasn’t been able to raise Northwood for three days. They go to periscope depth and monitor high levels of radioactivity even though they are far out to sea. All sat comms appear down. All they can raise on the radio is very broken morse code that appears to be coming from South America and, in the fragments they can hear,  is broadcasting verses from the bible in Spanish. For ten minutes they receive a snatch of what sounds like Afrikaans   news, but none of the crew speak Dutch.  The captain meets with his first officer and together open the safe containing the letter from PM Borris Johnson with his direction on what action the captain should take.
> 
> Barrington opens the double envelope, with a very slight tremble in his fingers. It’s a cartoon picture, drawn in crayon of a stick figure woman with the word ‘boobies’ scrawled next to it...


----------



## quiet guy (Aug 25, 2022)




----------



## tommers (Aug 25, 2022)

Truss now saying the jury is out on whether Macron is "our friend or foe". 

The fucking stupidity of that, on so many levels, is mind blowing. And yes, she's playing to her audience, but fucking hell. What a dick.


----------



## SysOut (Aug 25, 2022)

Neutrality is something strange to her.


----------



## philosophical (Aug 25, 2022)

So if you're not a friend you must be a foe huh?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 25, 2022)

This woman was the foreign secretary for some time, bearing in mind.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> This woman was the foreign secretary for some time, bearing in mind.


Is


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> This woman was the foreign secretary for some time, bearing in mind.


It doesn't bear thinking about.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 25, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Is



Yeah but let's not kid ourselves here, the country has been coasting in neutral for the last two months. The current chancellor of the exchequer is just a bungee cord between the steering wheel and the door handle.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah but let's not kid ourselves here, the country has been coasting in neutral for the last two months. The current chancellor of the exchequer is just a bungee cord between the steering wheel and the door handle.


True enough, but Truss is still (just) our 'chief diplomat'.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 28, 2022)

Had to check if Steve blue tick was a comedian. No....


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 28, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Had to check if Steve blue tick was a comedian. No....



She's the russians' dream pm because she's so barking, and will bring uk into disrepute around the world in ways Putin could only dream of


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 28, 2022)

I reckon what the russians actually fear most is an administration that actually works, something like a Wilson (1960s) one. Looking back it seems to me we haven't had a halfway competent government since at least the 1960s


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 28, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> She's the russians' dream pm because she's so barking, and will bring uk into disrepute around the world in ways Putin could only dream of


I feel like bishop Brennan when father Ted kicked him in the arse. The reality that Liz the fruitcake is going to be pm will sink in eventually.


----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 28, 2022)

Will Truss be the first Prime Minister to have sanctions applied to the UK* from  a western nation


*I cannot find any sanctions from a western nation against the UK, but I'm happy to be corrected.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 28, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Will Truss be the first Prime Minister to have sanctions applied to the UK* from  a western nation
> 
> 
> *I cannot find any sanctions from a western nation against the UK, but I'm happy to be corrected.


She stands a good chance of such


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 28, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Will Truss be the first Prime Minister to have sanctions applied to the UK* from  a western nation
> 
> 
> *I cannot find any sanctions from a western nation against the UK, but I'm happy to be corrected.



Sanctions unlikely, but the EU might well cancel deals with the UK if Truss abandons our obligations under those deals. Which she seems pretty likely to do.


----------



## wow (Aug 28, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Will Truss be the first Prime Minister to have sanctions applied to the UK* from  a western nation
> 
> 
> *I cannot find any sanctions from a western nation against the UK, but I'm happy to be corrected.


Maybe, but that’s the least of our problems


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 29, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> View attachment 339594



Not even a Mr Whippy. Some Thatcherite.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 30, 2022)

Tortoise Media are seeking a judicial review of the farce that is the Tory party's election of the next PM. 
The Tories have been threatening to do away with judicial review for ages...








						Our case for Judicial Review – 30 August 2022 - Tortoise
					

This letter was sent on the morning of Tuesday 30 August, serving as written pursuant to the Pre-Action Protocol for Judicial Review.




					www.tortoisemedia.com


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 30, 2022)

I've always been of the view that neither the UK, or any other NATO member would engage in a nuclear first strike.

So, if you are not going to use it first, why have it? Sure, when the Russian or Chinese or North Korean missiles are in the air, you can retaliate, but to what purpose? It isn't going to help a glowing London by creating a glowing Moscow or Beijing. The only reason that we hold on to nuclear weapons is to maintain our position as a permanent member of the UN Security Council.


----------



## philosophical (Aug 30, 2022)

I suppose it is about the lovely warm fuzzy feeling you’d get in the nanosecond before being vaporised knowing you’re vaporising some little children elsewhere.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 30, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I've always been of the view that neither the UK, or any other NATO member would engage in a nuclear first strike.
> 
> So, if you are not going to use it first, why have it? Sure, when the Russian or Chinese or North Korean missiles are in the air, you can retaliate, but to what purpose? It isn't going to help a glowing London by creating a glowing Moscow or Beijing. The only reason that we hold on to nuclear weapons is to maintain our position as a permanent member of the UN Security Council.


My understanding of the deterrence principle was simply that any power which was prepared to use a first strike did at least have to factor in the consequences of the retaliatory strike.

Arguably, without that threat, we'd probably have had a nuclear war by now. I can't help thinking that if Russia did not have to contend with the nuclear deterrence issue, it could be tempted to use battlefield nuclear weapons to achieve its aims without severe consequences. Let's hope so, anyway.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 30, 2022)

existentialist said:


> My understanding of the deterrence principle was simply that any power which was prepared to use a first strike did at least have to factor in the consequences of the retaliatory strike.
> 
> Arguably, without that threat, we'd probably have had a nuclear war by now. I can't help thinking that if Russia did not have to contend with the nuclear deterrence issue, it could be tempted to use battlefield nuclear weapons to achieve its aims without severe consequences. Let's hope so, anyway.


I don't buy that in the slightest.

Only country that's ever used nukes in anger is the USA, of course. They're the fuckers to watch out for.


----------



## Karl Masks (Aug 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't buy that in the slightest.
> 
> Only country that's ever used nukes in anger is the USA, of course. They're the fuckers to watch out for.


Weren't used in anger. It was to send a message to Uncle Joe and kick off the cold war.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 30, 2022)

existentialist said:


> My understanding of the deterrence principle was simply that any power which was prepared to use a first strike did at least have to factor in the consequences of the retaliatory strike.
> 
> Arguably, without that threat, we'd probably have had a nuclear war by now. I can't help thinking that if Russia did not have to contend with the nuclear deterrence issue, it could be tempted to use battlefield nuclear weapons to achieve its aims without severe consequences. Let's hope so, anyway.



 Had the Warsaw Pact come West, battlefield nukes were scheduled for about day six.


----------



## rubbershoes (Aug 30, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Weren't used in anger. It was to send a message to Uncle Joe and kick off the cold war.



I'm sure there was an element of beating Japan too, or am I naive to think that


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 30, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> I'm sure there was an element of beating Japan too, or am I naive to think that



Japan had already agreed to surrender before the bombs were dropped.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 30, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Sunak says it was a mistake to ‘empower scientists’ during Covid pandemic
> 
> 
> Ex-chancellor admits being furious about school closures, adding trade-offs of lockdowns were not properly considered by experts
> ...


Truss is at this now too! They are trying to out tory each other. She says under her watch there would be no lockdown, science be damned. Won't somebody think of the economy? 

Not spunking away billions on shit deals with tory mates might have saved a few billion.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 30, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Weren't used in anger. It was to send a message to Uncle Joe and kick off the cold war.


how curious that the start of the cold war is traditionally taken to start after the end of the second world war, a couple of years after the end of the second world war, and not in august 1945. and while it may be as you say, to send a message to uncle joe, the americans were sending a rather different message at the time with the transfer of us navy vessels to the soviet union under project hula Project Hula - Wikipedia not to mention the other largesse which had been sent their way throughout the period of the great patriotic war. perhaps you have some of that handy documentary evidence with which to bolster your case.


----------



## rubbershoes (Aug 30, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Japan had already agreed to surrender before the bombs were dropped.



Debatable


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 30, 2022)

existentialist said:


> My understanding of the deterrence principle was simply that any power which was prepared to use a first strike did at least have to factor in the consequences of the retaliatory strike.
> 
> Arguably, without that threat, we'd probably have had a nuclear war by now. I can't help thinking that if Russia did not have to contend with the nuclear deterrence issue, it could be tempted to use battlefield nuclear weapons to achieve its aims without severe consequences. Let's hope so, anyway.



Lets game theory it out then. Say Putin drops a 'tactical' nuke on some Ukrainian city. The world at large sucks its teeth in disapproval, some fingers hover near some buttons for a second, and then everyone remembers the deterrence principle. If we nuke Russia, Russia will nuke us back. We're right back where we started, only Ukraine now has one city fewer than it had this morning. 

The deterrence principle doesn't mean that nobody can use nukes. It means the opposite.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 30, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Japan had already agreed to surrender before the bombs were dropped.



No.









						Did the Japanese offer to surrender before Hiroshima? (Part 1)
					

Did the Japanese offer to surrender before Hiroshima? Short answer: no. Long answer: also no, but it's a bit complicated.




					blog.nuclearsecrecy.com


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 30, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Debatable


Not debatable. Didn't happen.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 30, 2022)

When I look at the two candidates, I wonder, could two worse options be on offer?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 30, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> When I look at the two candidates, I wonder, could two worse options be on offer?


theoretically yes


----------



## rubbershoes (Aug 30, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> When I look at the two candidates, I wonder, could two worse options be on offer?



Yes. Throw a dart at the current cabinet and you'd hit a worse candidate. And that's not saying anything good about these two


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 30, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> When I look at the two candidates, I wonder, could two worse options be on offer?



If only people had not been voting tory all these years. 

Still, nobody's to blame for that. Benefit of hindsight and all that. Can't expect people to take ownership of the consequences of their actions or anything.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 30, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> If only people had not been voting tory all these years.
> 
> Still, nobody's to blame for that. Benefit of hindsight and all that. Can't expect people to take ownership of the consequences of their actions or anything.



Don't know about you, but I have never voted to try and elect a Conservative MP in my life. I vote for the Labour candidate.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 30, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Yes. Throw a dart at the current cabinet and you'd hit a worse candidate. And that's not saying anything good about these two



Who would you choose if you could?


----------



## rubbershoes (Aug 30, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Who would you choose if you could?



Put them all on a bus to the party conference. As it's going past a lime pit, a sniper takes out the driver and the bus swerves into the pit, disintegrating them utterly.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 30, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Put them all on a bus to the party conference. As it's going past a lime pit, a sniper takes out the driver and the bus swerves into the pit, disintegrating them utterly.



Interesting, but doesn't answer the question. Note that I said 'Who', not which Conservative.


----------



## souljacker (Aug 30, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Don't know about you, but I have never voted to try and elect a Conservative MP in my life. I vote for the Labour candidate.


??





__





						Loading…
					





					www.urban75.net


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 30, 2022)

souljacker said:


> ??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And where does that say that I have ever voted for a Conservative candidate for MP? It doesn't, and it wouldn't, because I never have.

A vote for a Conservative Westminster (or Holyrood for that matter) candidate is a wasted vote. I vote for the Labour candidate.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 30, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Put them all on a bus to the party conference. As it's going past a lime pit, a sniper takes out the driver and the bus swerves into the pit, disintegrating them utterly.



can we not get them to try out a driverless bus?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 30, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> can we not get them to try out a driverless bus?



Init. This country can ill afford to spare a bus driver right now.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 30, 2022)

Boris is to recreate Joe Pescis exit in Casino once this is over


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 30, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Boris is to recreate Joe Pescis exit in Casino once this is over
> 
> View attachment 340348


Every time I see an open grave I know it's longing for Boris Johnson's penguin-pecked corpse


----------



## Santino (Aug 30, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> And where does that say that I have ever voted for a Conservative candidate for MP? It doesn't, and it wouldn't, because I never have.
> 
> A vote for a Conservative Westminster (or Holyrood for that matter) candidate is a wasted vote. I vote for the Labour candidate.





Sasaferrato said:


> The reason I vote Conservative ( a wasted vote in this constituency ) is to see lower taxes, smaller government and conditions that foster business expansion with the concomitant rise in employment.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Aug 30, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I've always been of the view that neither the UK, or any other NATO member would engage in a nuclear first strike.
> 
> So, if you are not going to use it first, why have it? Sure, when the Russian or Chinese or North Korean missiles are in the air, you can retaliate, *but to what purpose? *It isn't going to help a glowing London by creating a glowing Moscow or Beijing. *The only reason* that we hold on to nuclear weapons is to maintain our position as a permanent member of the UN Security Council.


I always presumed the motivation was revenge. I might not agree with it, but I understand it.

Having said that, I've never found myself dying in a radioactive wasteland - if I did, it's conceivable that I too would want whoever was responsible to find themselves equally up shit creek.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 30, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I always presumed the motivation was revenge. I might not agree with it, but I understand it.



Yes, it’s to ensure that in any scenario where the UK is invaded or endangered the other side has to choose if it’s worth losing a substantial portion of its citizens and infrastructure.

I don’t agree with Nukes but I understand the logic.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Aug 30, 2022)

Can someone explain to me how the current proposals to extract more oil and gas out of the North Sea will help in the current cost of living crisis. 

Surely it will take a while to get the extra gas and oil? 

Surely the gas and oil will be owned by the energy extraction companies who will trade it internationally to the highest bidder?

Surely it will contribute to global warming which is currently threatening millions in Pakistan?

I must be missing something.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Smangus (Aug 30, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Can someone explain to me how the current proposals to extract more oil and gas out of the North Sea will help in the current cost of living crisis.
> 
> Surely it will take a while to get the extra gas and oil?
> 
> ...



It won't, takes about 25-30 years to start extraction. At best its about mid term old tech energy security. Oh and maintenance of some share prices.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 30, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I always presumed the motivation was revenge. I might not agree with it, but I understand it.
> 
> Having said that, I've never found myself dying in a radioactive wasteland - if I did, it's conceivable that I too would want whoever was responsible to find themselves equally up shit creek.



Whoever's responsible will be in a bunker somewhere. Any 'revenge' would be against the innocent.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 30, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Can someone explain to me how the current proposals to extract more oil and gas out of the North Sea will help in the current cost of living crisis.
> 
> Surely it will take a while to get the extra gas and oil?
> 
> ...


There's always someone only too willing to talk down this great country of ours by, er, asking questions. Shame on you!


----------



## two sheds (Aug 30, 2022)

Smangus said:


> It won't, takes about 25-30 years to start extraction. At best its about mid term old tech energy security. Oh and maintenance of some share prices.


Or are they limiting supply, so increasing supply now for the fields to run out sooner?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 30, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Can someone explain to me how the current proposals to extract more oil and gas out of the North Sea will help in the current cost of living crisis.



Standard tory 'idea' isn't it. 

_We don't have enough gas. So...we will get more gas. _

Someone probably thinks that's a solid week's work they've done there, and that the whole problem will now just go away.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 30, 2022)

“We’ve opened up drilling for more gas so clearly this is renewable energy’s fault prices haven’t gone down”


----------



## Raheem (Aug 30, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Standard tory 'idea' isn't it.
> 
> _We don't have enough gas. So...we will get more gas. _
> 
> Someone probably thinks that's a solid week's work they've done there, and that the whole problem will now just go away.


It's not even that, IMO. It's opportunism, climate vandalism, playing to the usual suspects. No-one anywhere believes it will help.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 30, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I always presumed the motivation was revenge. I might not agree with it, but I understand it.



my understanding is that 'conventional wisdom' was that country A would not launch a nuclear strike against country B (if country B also had nukes) because if they did, country B would have time and capability to launch a nuclear strike on them before it got wiped out.  i think 'mutually assured destruction' was the phrase.

but if country B didn't have nukes, conventional wisdom was that country A could get an invasion force ready, and country B would not want to fight back because country A might press the button.

we didn't have a nuclear war in the 80s - whether that was because of this, i'm not qualified to say.


----------



## xenon (Aug 31, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> my understanding is that 'conventional wisdom' was that country A would not launch a nuclear strike against country B (if country B also had nukes) because if they did, country B would have time and capability to launch a nuclear strike on them before it got wiped out.  i think 'mutually assured destruction' was the phrase.
> 
> but if country B didn't have nukes, conventional wisdom was that country A could get an invasion force ready, and country B would not want to fight back because country A might press the button.
> 
> we didn't have a nuclear war in the 80s - whether that was because of this, i'm not qualified to say.



I don't think the second bit was ever stated or a doctrinal reality. No nation just let's themselves be invaded rather than defend because the invaders have nukes. See every war since 1945 for examples...

I think a clear and unequivicle no nuclear first strike policy is the best we can hope for from nuclear armed states at the moment.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 31, 2022)

xenon said:


> I don't think the second bit was ever stated or a doctrinal reality. No nation just let's themselves be invaded rather than defend because the invaders have nukes. See every war since 1945 for examples...



dunno.  it (not necessarily in the exact words i put down) seemed to be the general argument made whenever anyone advocated unilateral disarmament.  

i'm not saying i agree entirely with it.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 31, 2022)

I’ve been wondering if Truss might go for something like this: a temporary nationalisation of some of the energy supplier companies, a covid style bailout for people and business for say 6 months and then calling a snap general election off the poll bounce. 

As they say, watch this space…


----------



## ska invita (Aug 31, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I’ve been wondering if Truss might go for something like this: a temporary nationalisation of some of the energy supplier companies, a covid style bailout for people and business for say 6 months and then calling a snap general election off the poll bounce.
> 
> As they say, watch this space…



to save people clicking


----------



## Tanya1982 (Aug 31, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Whoever's responsible will be in a bunker somewhere. Any 'revenge' would be against the innocent.


Arguably they'd only be in a bunker due to the ability of the target to fire back. Without that, they could be getting on with life in Moscow or Beijing - or a city further east in Russia if Moscow is initially too close to the immediate contamination. But regardless, not for me to defend either way.


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 31, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Boris is to recreate Joe Pescis exit in Casino once this is over
> 
> View attachment 340348


Must have never seen a hole before


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 31, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Arguably they'd only be in a bunker due to the ability of the target to fire back. Without that, they could be getting on with life in Moscow or Beijing - or a city further east in Russia if Moscow is initially too close to the immediate contamination. But regardless, not for me to defend either way.



So everyone else is dead, but poor Vlad stuck in his bunker can't go to McDonaldskis for his breakfast muffins any more so he's the one who has really lost out.


----------



## donkyboy (Aug 31, 2022)

Just cannot believe this fucking leadership election is still running. How many more fucking weeks do these cunts need?


----------



## moochedit (Aug 31, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> Just cannot believe this fucking leadership election is still running. How many more fucking weeks do these cunts need?



Not really paid attention to it since the mp voting rounds finished. I think result is finally due in a few days though?


----------



## xenon (Aug 31, 2022)

I actually listened to some of the final hustings earlier....  at self.

They're still all freaks. 

HTH


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 31, 2022)

She has to go up to Balmoral to kiss rings. Hope when she walks in, Queenie and Sturgeon are sat down having afternoon tea, quickly get the necessary business out of the way, then point her to the door


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 31, 2022)

Why does she have to traipse to Scotland to see Brenda, can't they do it via Zoom or get Chucky to do it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Why does she have to traipse to Scotland to see Brenda, can't they do it via Zoom or get Chucky to do it.


Because several assassination plots rely on it


----------



## quiet guy (Aug 31, 2022)

It's so she can at least see Balmoral before she gets dumped and Boris returns


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> She has to go up to Balmoral to kiss rings. Hope when she walks in, Queenie and Sturgeon are sat down having afternoon tea, quickly get the necessary business out of the way, then point her to the door


They'll have to stand up if Truss is to kiss their rings


----------



## two sheds (Aug 31, 2022)

Ultimate photo ops


----------



## krink (Aug 31, 2022)

I checked the dates and Truss is named as PM in parliament at 12.30 on the 5th and then Johnson goes to Balmoral to resign on the 6th. So assuming all the real fun and games really starts with pmqt on Wednesday the 7th?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 31, 2022)

krink said:


> I checked the dates and Truss is named as PM in parliament at 12.30 on the 5th and then Johnson goes to Balmoral to resign on the 6th. So assuming all the real fun and games really starts with pmqt on Wednesday the 7th?



I've told yous, PMQs is done with. She clearly isn't capable, so it's going.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 1, 2022)

Meanwhile...in shock news of a massive policy departure from the Truss team signalling a brave new direction for the tories...


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 1, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> She has to go up to Balmoral to kiss rings. Hope when she walks in, Queenie and Sturgeon are sat down having afternoon tea, quickly get the necessary business out of the way, then point her to the door


I doubt if the Queen would voluntarily have anything to do with Turdgeon.


----------



## gosub (Sep 1, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> I'm sure there was an element of beating Japan too, or am I naive to think that


Actual deployment was more about the Russains, but those that sweating the detail were fighting the Japanese...even ended up needing materials they got off a U-boat the Germans were sending the Japanese...It was war, and pretty full on


----------



## two sheds (Sep 1, 2022)

errrm 'cancel our women' ... wtf is he talking about?

eta: and 'reforming the NHS' .... again


----------



## gosub (Sep 1, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Meanwhile...in shock news of a massive policy departure from the Truss team signalling a brave new direction for the tories...
> 
> View attachment 340546


 so independence of mpc trumps a vote of card carrying tories?


----------



## stavros (Sep 2, 2022)

Isn't the NHS inherently "woke" and lefty? We all pay in for the greater good (assuming we and our wives are tax resident in the UK).


----------



## Cerv (Sep 3, 2022)

Britain at the mercy of the Tory party faithful
					

Once again, a UK prime minister has been chosen by a cartel of Conservative members. How did the “selectorate” end up with so much power?




					www.newstatesman.com
				





> What we can be certain about is that process matters. If the competition to elect the leader had been limited to Conservative MPs, as it was between the 1960s and 1990s, the debate would have followed a rather different course, attending, by way of MPs wishing to be re-elected, to the needs and fears of the wider electorate. Paradoxically, by extending the franchise to the broader party membership in the late 1990s, the Conservative Party narrowed the bandwidth of debate.


it would still be skewed towards appealing to a certain slice of the UK population by only including representatives from ~350 of the 650 constituencies. I wonder how the contest would change if all the prospective parliamentary candidates were given votes as well as actual MPs. (it'd still be a shitshow)


anyway, thank fuck this interminable nonsense is finally nearly over. feels like it's dragged on for years.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 3, 2022)

Cerv said:


> Britain at the mercy of the Tory party faithful
> 
> 
> Once again, a UK prime minister has been chosen by a cartel of Conservative members. How did the “selectorate” end up with so much power?
> ...


The (implicit) central thesis of this article is that the section of party leaders should be down to 'the experts', after all that would have stopped the "far from obviously prime ministerial Jeremy Corbyn" being elected as Labour leader. Technocracy posing as more 'democratic'.

The comments on the cosplay vs real Thatcherism (and Thatchers support for the EU) are correct, but this


> the serious body of Thatcherite policy analysis associated with John Hoskyns, her chief strategist in opposition and during her first three years in office, much of which remains highly pertinent to an economy where inflationary pressures fuel wage demands and strikes.


gives a good indication of where the politics of this piece resides.


----------



## Dystopiary (Sep 3, 2022)

two sheds said:


> errrm 'cancel our women' ... wtf is he talking about?
> 
> eta: and 'reforming the NHS' .... again



"Our women" God he's so vile. At least he looked and sounded uncomfortable saying "want to take on this lefty woke culture" like he knows it's ridiculous.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 3, 2022)

I still don't know what he means by it. How are 'their women' being cancelled?


----------



## Dystopiary (Sep 3, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I still don't know what he means by it. How are 'their women' being cancelled?


They're not and he flipping well knows it.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 3, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I still don't know what he means by it. How are 'their women' being cancelled?



There is no content whatsoever. It's just a matter of making the correct noises, the ones the audience has been primed to respond to.

Another ten years and these people will just be barking at each other like seals.


----------



## flypanam (Sep 3, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> There is no content whatsoever. It's just a matter of making the correct noises, the ones the audience has been primed to respond to.
> 
> Another ten years and these people will just be barking at each other like seals.


The right wing origins of political correctness right there.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 3, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> "Our women" God he's so vile. At least he looked and sounded uncomfortable saying "want to take on this lefty woke culture" like he knows it's ridiculous.


He looks like a Matt Groening cartoon

of a rick pillock


----------



## two sheds (Sep 3, 2022)

Might be something like this:









						Why do the woke keep cancelling strong women like JK Rowling?
					

It always seems to be high-profile heroes like the Harry Potter author and Dame Kelly Holmes getting it in the neck from angry activists




					www.telegraph.co.uk
				




I did wonder whether it was related to trans rights.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 3, 2022)




----------



## stavros (Sep 3, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


>



Is there a non-alcoholic version of Director's bitter?


----------



## existentialist (Sep 4, 2022)

stavros said:


> Is there a non-alcoholic version of Director's bitter?


Yeah. Worthington's 👿


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 4, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Might be something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's absolutely related to trans rights and "you can't call yourself a woman with out going to jail these days"


----------



## gosub (Sep 4, 2022)

Twitter users delighted to see billboards announcing Larry the cat’s bid for PM
					

Hundreds of users backed the 15-year-old tabby as he announced his campaign for prime minister on #Larry4Leader billboards.




					www.newschainonline.com
				





Fucking lazy bastard, first he gets Parlmerston 'retired' then waits til now to announce his bid


----------



## stavros (Sep 4, 2022)

We can hold a general election or a national referendum on a single day, cope with postal votes, and still get a result in the early hours of the following morning. Why does it take so fucking long to elect a leader of a fringe party (42.4% in 2019), with an electorate far, far smaller? Have they had to wait to install updates on their abacus or something?


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2022)

stavros said:


> We can hold a general election or a national referendum on a single day, cope with postal votes, and still get a result in the early hours of the following morning. Why does it take so fucking long to elect a leader of a fringe party (42.4% in 2019), with an electorate far, far smaller? Have they had to wait to install update son their abacus or something?


Exit polls say:

“Is it tea time?”
“The staff are stealing my underwear”
And
“Do they serve Dubonnet here?”


----------



## bluescreen (Sep 4, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Exit polls say:
> 
> “Is it tea time?”
> “The staff are stealing my underwear”
> ...


Dubonnet! I'd forgotten its very existence.


----------



## nottsgirl (Sep 4, 2022)

We’ll know tomorrow, right?


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Sep 4, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> We’ll know tomorrow, right?


It's gonna be some Tory wanker.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 4, 2022)

12:30 tomorrow we'll have a new pustule


----------



## Raheem (Sep 4, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> 12:30 tomorrow we'll have a new pustule


A new ominous itch. We don't officially get the pustule until Tuesday.


----------



## nottsgirl (Sep 5, 2022)

Liz Truss. Liz fucking Truss.


----------



## marty21 (Sep 5, 2022)

Thank fuck that dullfest is finally over , didn't care who won tbh.


----------



## nottsgirl (Sep 5, 2022)

I was surprised how many votes Rishi Sunak actually got. Hopefully yet more signs of division.


----------



## Cerv (Sep 5, 2022)

maybe 6 weeks of being told Truss had already won had the effect of suppressing her vote. if it's a forgone conclusion people can be tempted not to bother.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 5, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> I was surprised how many votes Rishi Sunak actually got. Hopefully yet more signs of division.



deleted


----------



## teqniq (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## existentialist (Sep 5, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> I was surprised how many votes Rishi Sunak actually got. Hopefully yet more signs of division.


It'd have been funnier if it were 52/48%, TBF...


----------



## stavros (Sep 5, 2022)

The protocol from Graham Brady lasted so long it reminded me of the announcement of who won King of the Sheep.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 5, 2022)

Wouldn't it  be amazing if truss really was a secret lib dem after all, (well not amazing, just slightly less worse) and she implemented all the false promises from Clegg.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 5, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> Liz Truss. Liz fucking Truss.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Sep 5, 2022)

The tory leadership election timescales were not written down apparently so I guess they thought it had to be long because of the summer hols/recess ?
It's been interminable, thank fuck it's over. It seems like a lifetime since Bojo resigned.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 5, 2022)

DJWrongspeed said:


> The tory leadership election timescales were not written down apparently so I guess they thought it had to be long because of the summer hols/recess ?
> It's been interminable, thank fuck it's over. It seems like a lifetime since Bojo resigned.


It's not over. It's only just begun...


----------



## brogdale (Sep 5, 2022)

existentialist said:


> It's not over. It's only just begun...


Yeah, aspiring to lead a country comfortable with itself looks pretty optimistic when she won't even be able to lead a parliamentary party comfortable with itself


----------



## brogdale (Sep 5, 2022)

First to call it; kabbes wins thread:









						Tory Leadership contest 2022
					

And they're off...Nads for PM?




					www.urban75.net


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 5, 2022)

Raheem said:


>


Porkraker

From Russia Without Cheese

You Only Vote Remain

For Your Lies Only


----------



## kabbes (Sep 5, 2022)

brogdale said:


> First to call it; kabbes wins thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was going to say that this post hasn’t agreed well!



kabbes said:


> It would be properly hilarious if they made Liz Truss prime minister.  For about 2 minutes, before the crashing realisation that Liz Truss is now prime minister.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 29, 2022)

So ....


----------



## brogdale (Oct 2, 2022)

And they're off (again)...


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 13, 2022)

Is Gove on some coke bender or a man of genuine depth and compassion?

It's coke bender, isn't it


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 13, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Is Gove on some coke bender or a man of genuine depth and compassion?
> 
> It's coke bender, isn't it



it's quite amazing how the inflation rate of cuntitude in the tory party in the last few years keeps making the previous crop of massive tory cunts look almost sensible by comparison...


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 13, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> it's quite amazing how the inflation rate of cuntitude in the tory party in the last few years keeps making the previous crop of massive tory cunts look almost sensible by comparison...


I know what you mean. That Genghis Kahn seems quite reasonable nowadays.


----------



## not a trot (Oct 13, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> I know what you mean. That Genghis Kahn seems quite reasonable nowadays.



Nah. Pretty certain some of them cunts would prefer Hitler.


----------



## Supine (Oct 14, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> it's quite amazing how the inflation rate of cuntitude in the tory party in the last few years keeps making the previous crop of massive tory cunts look almost sensible by comparison...



Sidelining the non brexit believers really hasn’t helped. They’re currently a cult of the stupid.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

er...good value thread, eh?


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 20, 2022)

they should do another run of that riveting display that they performed a few weeks ago


----------



## maomao (Oct 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> er...good value thread, eh?


You need to edit the thread for clarity. Add an 's'.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

They’re really putting stabilisers on for the members.


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 20, 2022)

They're desperate for a solid, safe, even boring leader for the next two years. That's what the 100 nominees thing is all about.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> They're desperate for a solid, safe, even boring leader for the next two years. That's what the 100 nominees thing is all about.


It’s more about two things: 
1. ensuring there’s no more than 3 candidates.  There needs to be a result by next Friday. 
2. ensuring that a new leader enjoys the support of most Tory MPs or at least a plurality (in the case of there being 3 candidates).  Truss did not. And that’s how you get to be PM: having the support in that post of the biggest party or of the most MPs.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 20, 2022)

And how often does a "Tory Leadership Contest <year>" manage to get bumped in this way?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

That 100 MPs minimum backers might be a bit of an issue for any leadership election after the next GE!


----------



## prunus (Oct 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> That 100 MPs minimum backers might be a bit of an issue for any leadership election after the next GE!


I’ve noticed they sometimes have a tendency to change their ‘rules’ absolutely whenever it suits them.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

Johnson's olive branch to Sunak might shoe the latter in.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 21, 2022)

give me fucking strength


----------



## marty21 (Oct 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> er...good value thread, eh?


Recycling !


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

Desperately sad news for supporters of the Medway narcissist; not throwing his hat in again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> That 100 MPs minimum backers might be a bit of an issue for any leadership election after the next GE!


The newly renamed 2 Committee will meet to determine the rules for such a contest


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 21, 2022)

Half-asleep, heard someone on R4 suggesting Johnson might easily clear 100, maybe even around 140.

What. The. Fuck.


----------



## prunus (Oct 21, 2022)

Please god not Johnson. Surely that can’t happen. Less than 6 months ago 50-something of his own ministers resigned en masse because he wasn’t fit for office. He’s no fitter now. Fucks sake.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Half-asleep, heard someone on R4 suggesting Johnson might easily clear 100, maybe even around 140.
> 
> What. The. Fuck.


Tim Montgomerie. 

R4 has been insane this am.


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 21, 2022)

prunus said:


> Please god not Johnson. Surely that can’t happen. Less than 6 months ago 50-something of his own ministers resigned en masse because he wasn’t fit for office. He’s no fitter now. Fucks sake.



He hasn't done anything terrible in 44 days (as he's been on holiday) and people have short memories


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 21, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> He hasn't done anything terrible in 44 days (as he's been on holiday) and people have short memories


Short but not that short. Choosing Boris for round two would be the best thing for Labour. Allow the Tories to have their death throes.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Desperately sad news for supporters of the Medway narcissist; not throwing his hat in again.



They’ve sloped that photo — to make Sunak look taller, possibly?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

Callum91 said:


> Short but not that short. Choosing Boris for round two would be the best thing for Labour. Allow the Tories to have their death throes.


yeh while they're having their death throes how many people will needlessly really die to pay for them?


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> They’ve sloped that photo — to make Sunak look taller, possibly?



Chisti is actually shorter than Sunak, so I guess the Sunak campaign instigated the photo op.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

"it was reported on Thursday night that the former prime minster was planning on reaching out to Sunak, his former chancellor, in a bid to secure enough nominations to make the final ballot."

what does that even mean, Johnson is supposedly asking sunak to do what, step aside?


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 21, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh while they're having their death throes how many people will needlessly really die to pay for them?


That's always the case though.


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> "it was reported on Thursday night that the former prime minster was planning on reaching out to Sunak, his former chancellor, in a bid to secure enough nominations to make the final ballot."
> 
> what does that even mean, Johnson is supposedly asking sunak to do what, step aside?


I'd assume he's offering him his old job back. The one he resigned from cause he thought Boris was a cunt.


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> I'd assume he's offering him his old job back. The one he resigned from cause he thought Boris was a cunt.


Or he wants to ensure Sunak won't stand against him.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> "it was reported on Thursday night that the former prime minster was planning on reaching out to Sunak, his former chancellor, in a bid to secure enough nominations to make the final ballot."
> 
> what does that even mean, Johnson is supposedly asking sunak to do what, step aside?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 21, 2022)

Sweet chuntering Christ. It begins again.


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 21, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Sweet chuntering Christ. It begins again.



Has there ever been a reason given as to why Mogg himself has never ran for the top job?


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 21, 2022)

Johnson's main policy will be massive spending cuts for some, miniature British flags for others


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

I think out of the proposed candidates, a Johnson victory is the best option. Austerity with Sunak would be a disaster.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 21, 2022)

I hope they do go for Johnson.  Current polling is showing there's about 15-20% will vote Tory no matter what, even if the current PM is personally shitting on them as they vote.  There's probably about 15-20% would give Johnson the personal vote, because he's a cad and a bounder and a bit of a larf, isn't he?

These aren't two completely discrete sets of people, there's a fair overlap - so nothing over 30%, no chance.  And there won't be many wavering voters beyond that - everyone else, literally everyone else will see the very obvious and total contempt that the Tories hold the electorate in.  Like we're supposed to forget the awful covid response, the corrupt PPE procurement, the Arcuri shagging for access to government, the partying during lockdown, the lying to parliament over it, the FPN, the protecting his mate from sexual assault allegation, the constant lying about everything, the narcissism, the hiding in a fridge, all the reasons why 3 months ago (3 months FFS) he was belatedly found unfit for office and tossed on the scrapheap.

He's a joke, their whole party is a joke and all they're doing is giving a graphic demonstration to all those who haven't realised it yet.  By the time it gets to the election and becomes obvious that Johnson's image as an election winner is way off, they'll haemorrhage more support in a way that makes today's polling look like a golden era.

I hope Johnson dies at the exact moment he realises that for his whole life his self-image has been a delusion; that he's held in universal contempt, and will be forgotten.


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

The reports of Johnson having 140 MPs in the bag don't really match up with other reports of him 'reaching out' to Sunak tbh. Less sure than I was yesterday, but that's not the action of someone confident of winning


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

the reaching out to sunak thing maybe its just made up story put out by team sunak. To help in some way with the backstabbing snake image problem that they have. That would make slightly more sense than anything else i can imagine anyway.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 21, 2022)

so what the news this morning and heard more than one team Boris bring up the man being a stateman


aye very good he was at it ffs


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 21, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> He hasn't done anything terrible in 44 days (as he's been on holiday) and people have short memories


He didn’t kill the queen


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 21, 2022)

Ax^ said:


>


Looking at that, it shows how physically awkward he's become in middle age - up there with May and Truss ...
Have there been any PMs who could dance - of any party ?


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

Callum91 said:


> Has there ever been a reason given as to why Mogg himself has never ran for the top job?



I suspect the reason is that all MPs know he's a complete and utter fraud, nobody sits next to him at lunch he's just tolerated as a sort of stinky mascot which appeals to their most hard of thinking voters.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 21, 2022)

Finnish PM  Sanna Marin  can take  turn


----------



## existentialist (Oct 21, 2022)

prunus said:


> Please god not Johnson. Surely that can’t happen. Less than 6 months ago 50-something of his own ministers resigned en masse because he wasn’t fit for office. He’s no fitter now. Fucks sake.


Given his personality, he wouldn't see a second chance as some kind of getting-away-with-it-by-the-skin-of-his-teeth thing, but as a vindication of the corruption, lying, lawbreaking and general mayhem he so enthusiastically indulged in first time around. I think he would double down on all of that shit.

The good news is that, after a second round of Johnson, I would have serious doubts as to whether the Tory party could continue to exist, functionally at least. It's already riven and largely discredited, but I think that a Johnson premiership would hammer the final nails into its coffin. I hope so, anyway.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 21, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Looking at that, it shows how physically awkward he's become in middle age - up there with May and Truss ...
> Have there been any PMs who could dance - of any party ?


TBF, if I were PM, I couldn't dance either, and I'm non-aligned. 

I also wouldn't be able to play the piano


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

existentialist said:


> TBF, if I were PM, I couldn't dance either, and I'm non-aligned.
> 
> I also wouldn't be able to play the piano


yeh but you play the tunes that other people dance to.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

FT: "While there is a caucus of Conservative MPs who bitterly dislike the idea of another term for Boris Johnson, there are definitely 100 MPs who are either desperate enough or committed enough to Johnson for that not to matter".
great.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 21, 2022)

Callum91 said:


> Has there ever been a reason given as to why Mogg himself has never ran for the top job?


Cos he likes to think of himself as the dark arts guy but he knows what we all know, that he’s useless, greedy shite.


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Looking at that, it shows how physically awkward he's become in middle age - up there with May and Truss ...
> Have there been any PMs who could dance - of any party ?


I think the problems came when we started letting people who couldn't dance be PM.


----------



## inva (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> FT: "While there is a caucus of Conservative MPs who bitterly dislike the idea of another term for Boris Johnson, there are definitely 100 MPs who are either desperate enough or committed enough to Johnson for that not to matter".
> great.


Bitter division sounds like a pretty good result to me.


----------



## A380 (Oct 21, 2022)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid028tQXWnksbPY7anWTVVL4AvZkhLTRpP1kv6PfexkNTaNCbkY5NYwcvEntF6DnzPy1l&id=28373121592


----------



## A380 (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> I think the problems came when we started letting people who couldn't dance be PM.
> 
> View attachment 348093
> View attachment 348094
> View attachment 348095



Nosey* was pretty good apparently:



* Nothing like topicality in political humour.


----------



## a_chap (Oct 21, 2022)

Exclusive pic: the new Tory front bench dancing



Spoiler


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Looking at that, it shows how physically awkward he's become in middle age - up there with May and Truss ...
> Have there been any PMs who could dance - of any party ?


Yes
Jazz hands Gove of course...


----------



## marty21 (Oct 21, 2022)

I think Boris will get the gig - it's hilarious how much the Tories want to punch themselves in the face again and again, whilst also punching the rest of us as well


----------



## fucthest8 (Oct 21, 2022)

I've just had two people that I Ork with tell me that you can't criticise Boris for anything that went on during the pandemic because "no-one else could have done any better" because it was a new situation (relatively speaking). Also that he gets they respect for sticking at his job 

Fucking hell


----------



## fucthest8 (Oct 21, 2022)

I mean, I'm kind of not surprised, but to actually hear it out loud, vehemently 

Fucking hell


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> I think out of the proposed candidates, a Johnson victory is the best option. Austerity with Sunak would be a disaster.


Depressingly this is probably true.

Also I'm pretty sure bringing him back would really fuck them come the next election. 

I mean what message does that send. 
They get rid of him, elect Truss who fucks the economy and they whoops sorry about that and bring him back.


So yeah. Urm go Boris, I guess.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

fucthest8 said:


> I've just had two people that I Ork with tell me that you can't criticise Boris for anything that went on during the pandemic because "no-one else could have done any better" because it was a new situation (relatively speaking). Also that he gets they respect for sticking at his job
> 
> Fucking hell


Ork with? Is this some larping thing or did you miss out a W?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 21, 2022)

i was totally dismissing the idea that Johnson could get the backing of enough mps - yet its looking like he could maybe do it. Its not definite - but for it to be even a possibility is ... mindboggling.  Are they really that fucking stupid? Johnson returning will mean yet more chaos - and inevitable scandals. And a reasonable chance he'd be chucked out again. fuck me ...


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

marty21 said:


> I think Boris will get the gig - it's hilarious how much the Tories want to punch themselves in the face again and again, whilst also punching the rest of us as well


Yup operation re-elect Big Dog Turd seems to be gathering pace this morning. It's like they almost planned it...











						Ben Wallace rules himself out of leadership race and is ‘leaning towards’ backing Boris Johnson as next PM – UK politics live
					

Defence secretary says he will not be standing in Conservative leadership election and wishes to stay in current role




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 21, 2022)

Talk about high risk strategy.Just imagine they bring Boris back to Downing Street trailing clouds of glory the Eye go to work with generous help from Cummings and the mother of all skeletons falls out of his closet and he is gone again before the wallpaper is up.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 21, 2022)

Apparently the ERG are debating weather to get behind Johnson - but are split. If they dont, then they probably wont have a favoured candidate who can get enough mp votes to challenge sunak and/or mourdant. so could be crucial.
Occurs to me that even if Johnson doesn't make the cut - he can still cause a lot of shit for the new regime - probably playing the "stabbed in the back/remoaner coup" card for all its worth.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 21, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Talk about high risk strategy.Just imagine they bring Boris back to Downing Street trailing clouds of glory the Eye go to work with generous help from Cummings and the mother of all skeletons falls out of his closet and he is gone again before the wallpaper is up.


What's Cummings got left to say? no one takes that little weasel seriously anyway. He just comes across as a vengeful walter mitty type. Everytime he's been called out he crawls away and it's going to be obvious that he's just bearing a grudge and not providing concrete evidence of Boris' behaviour


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Occurs to me that even if Johnson doesn't make the cut - he can still cause a lot of shit for the new regime - probably playing the "stabbed in the back/remoaner coup" card for all its worth.



I don't think he will be arsed. If he's not PM he won't be interested, he's never shown much interest in being an MP, which is why he's in the Dominican Republic right now.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I don't think he will be arsed. If he's not PM he won't be interested, he's never shown much interest in being an MP, which is why he's in the Dominican Republic right now.


maybe - but he would have a gaggle of fans on the backbenches and within the membership seeing him as the exiled king over the water - and hed be very happy to play along in defence of brexit unicorns, fantasy leveling up and whatever other bullshit he'd be up for championing.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> maybe - but he would have a gaggle of fans on the backbenches and within the membership seeing him as the exiled king over the water - and hed be very happy to play along in defence of brexit unicorns, fantasy leveling up and whatever other bullshit he'd be up for championing.



He can do all that in the Telegraph and via guest TV appearances though. No need to have a day job that involves actual commitment and regulations in order to stir things up if he wants.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

Presumably getting Mordaunt to back down is Johnson's only strategy.  He'll offer her whatever job she wants or if that doesn't work, start spinning stories about her over the weekend.

Really hope he gets it as the tory civil war runs and runs.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 21, 2022)

Callum91 said:


> Has there ever been a reason given as to why Mogg himself has never ran for the top job?




Power rests not in who wears the crown.


He’s also self aware enough to know he wouldn’t get it.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Power rests not in who wears the crown.
> 
> 
> He’s also self aware enough to know he wouldn’t get it.


Name drop warning: I remember having a conversation with Bea Campbell (MBE ) about 20 years ago. She'd just been on Newsnight for a discussion on class and inequality, with mogg and others.  I remember saying to her he seemed like an exhibit, a joke made flesh, a preposterous 'thing'. Little did we know.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

I also met Gareth Southgate once, but that's the limit of my interactions with famous people.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 21, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I also met Gareth Southgate once, but that's the limit of my interactions with famous people.




Nina Mishkov taught me to do the hands upside mask on your eyes thing.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 21, 2022)

fucthest8 said:


> I've just had two people that I Ork with tell me that you can't criticise Boris for anything that went on during the pandemic because "no-one else could have done any better" because it was a new situation (relatively speaking). Also that he gets they respect for sticking at his job
> 
> Fucking hell


Ask them if they think it's worthy of respect (and another turn) for a boss to laugh about employing a sexual predator - because that's what BJ did, and it had absolutely nothing to do with any pandemic.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 21, 2022)

So many hares running with Johnson it would be mad if he is brought back.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> He can do all that in the Telegraph and via guest TV appearances though. No need to have a day job that involves actual commitment and regulations in order to stir things up if he wants.


hes still an mp and has shown no desire to give up his seat. Being a trouble making backbencher allows him to hog the lime light and keep alive his dream of coming back.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

Penny Mourdant has just announced she is running for the leadership, but not sure if she has enough backing?


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 21, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Nina Mishkov taught me to do the hands upside mask on your eyes thing.


There's a name I've not heard in a while.


----------



## fucthest8 (Oct 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Ork with? Is this some larping thing or did you miss out a W?



Ah, the latter 😁

Tanya1982  I had quite the list as a rebuttal. I got "they are all as bad as each other" back 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 21, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> There's a name I've not heard in a while.



I was just a wee lad bored out of my head at an ITV buffet dad took me to


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)




----------



## Raheem (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


>



Sources close to Boris Johnson say the evidence about partygate is so damning against Boris Johnson that the Privileges Committee could be 'gone by Christmas' if he returns as Conservative Leader and Prime Minister.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 21, 2022)

Current tally:

Rishi Sunak - 72 MPs
Boris Johnson - 41 MPs
Penny Mordaunt - 17 MPs
List of names in the main article:









						Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak and Penny Mordaunt: Who are MPs backing?
					

Conservative MPs have started declaring who they want to become Britain's next prime minister.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Current tally:
> 
> Rishi Sunak - 72 MPs
> Boris Johnson - 41 MPs
> ...


FWIW, the loathsome Staines currently has those numbers respectively as 85, 62 & 23.


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> FWIW, the loathsome Staines currently has those numbers respectively as 85, 62 & 23.


His is 'support' rather than nominations (and says so on it).


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> His is 'support' rather than nominations (and says so on it).


Yep, should have said; stand (sit) corrected.


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

Mordant's support so far are all pretty low wattage - I don't think she's going to make it.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> Mordant's support so far are all pretty low wattage - I don't think she's going to make it.


Was her candidature this time more an attempt at a siphoning away/stop-Johnson deal with Hunt? Her then being on a Sunak/Hunt promise of something big like Shappsy's gig?


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Oct 21, 2022)

BBB...Bring Back Boris! I'd love to see him win...then lose his seat at the election. He has a majority of 7,210.

With current polling, Rishi is the most likely to be in the next parliament


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 21, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> BBB...Bring Back Boris! I'd love to see him win...then lose his seat at the election. He has a majority of 7,210.



there were some rumours that he would jump to a safer tory seat (possibly middle earth mid bedfordshire if nadine dorries gets bunged in to the lords)


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> there were some rumours that he would jump to a safer tory seat (possibly middle earth mid bedfordshire if nadine dorries gets bunged in to the lords)


Correct to say "safer"; there are fewer safe seats now.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

If Cummings was still about I'd actually consider if this has all really been a big fat tory plan.

"Look Bozza it's getting serious now mate. Just resign, go on holiday for a couple of months with that ex PM bonus you can claim and we'll put Liz in until she fucks everything up. Once it's got worse than it was before you left you can creep back in and we'll all get behind the Big Dog again." 
"Genius Dom, will I have to take Carrie in that Pink Trouser suit?"
"Look big dog just stay out of trouble, put on the family man facade and I'll do the rest"









						Boris Johnson is back … from his three post-resignation holidays
					

Former prime minister said to be flying to UK from Caribbean, after trips to Slovenia and Greece




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 21, 2022)

Updated MP count:

Rishi 75
Johnson 44
Mordaunt 21

Votes to go: 217

Big question I guess is whether the 44 represent a larger or smaller part of Bojo's loyalists. Not looking great for Mordaunt that she's struggling with the early doors nominations.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Oct 21, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> there were some rumours that he would jump to a safer tory seat (possibly middle earth mid bedfordshire if nadine dorries gets bunged in to the lords)


it's getting a bit late to do that, surely.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

Will Boris get the 100? Fascinating to watch


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Will Boris get the 100? Fascinating to watch


Fingers crossed


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 21, 2022)

Does seem to be turning into an "it's Sunak, unless Boris can muster the 100 in which case he'll cruise the member vote to a second Premiership" kind of contest atm.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 21, 2022)

Boris comes back as pm. Has to resign cos of the privileges committee. Another tory leadership election. Bring it!


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Boris comes back as pm. Has to resign cos of the privileges committee. Another tory leadership election. Bring it!


Yep, and in an 'ideal' world, Truss then stands again and succeeds him.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 21, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> it's getting a bit late to do that, surely.



jump seats, or find a safe tory seat?

if they are still aiming for an election some time in 2024/5 then there's a fair bit of time still.  while most parties will have either a sitting MP or a candidate in place in most constituencies, don't think they are formally candidates until after the election has been declared.

while MPs have moved seats at elections before (have a vague recollection that a number of tory MPs did that before 1997) i'm not sure it's been done in a way that would cause two by-elections.  not sure you can apply for the chiltern hundreds (or whatever bollocks it is) one day, then a few days later resign that to stand as a candidate somewhere else.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Boris comes back as pm. Has to resign cos of the privileges committee. Another tory leadership election. Bring it!


and then what? maybe it's fine, politics as an endlessly farcical reality tv show and that's it. Not like they’re hurting anyone apart from themselves is it


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 21, 2022)

fucthest8 said:


> Ah, the latter 😁
> 
> Tanya1982  I had quite the list as a rebuttal. I got "they are all as bad as each other" back 🤦‍♂️


Oh well, at least you tried. At some point, you just have to leave people like that happy in their own head, for your own sanity.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

Might be the Bishops, but this has made me laugh out loud quite a lot...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Might be the Bishops, but this has made me laugh out loud quite a lot...



The idea's warming on me.


----------



## quiet guy (Oct 21, 2022)

Can old Cumberland sausage fingers refuse to accept Bo- Jo if he does get the Tory nomination?


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 21, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Boris comes back as pm. Has to resign cos of the privileges committee. Another tory leadership election. Bring it!


I just feel exhausted by that. I know they think it's a game, such a lark, but it's all very tiring to even contemplate.


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 21, 2022)

fucthest8 said:


> I've just had two people that I Ork with tell me that you can't criticise Boris for anything that went on during the pandemic because "no-one else could have done any better" because it was a new situation (relatively speaking). Also that he gets they respect for sticking at his job
> 
> Fucking hell


Seems to be the prevailing view amongst my more elderly neighbours too


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 21, 2022)

so conversation i interjected myself into before leaving the job between our drivers

talking about bring back Boris

"what that cunt are you daft"

"it that or Starmer and i don't trust him"

"and you trust that prick Boris"

the mind boggles at some of the population


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> Can old Cumberland sausage fingers refuse to accept Bo- Jo if he does get the Tory nomination?


In practice, no. Whoever is thrust forwards by parliament as able to command a majority in the Commons is the PM.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> In practice, no. Whoever is thrust forwards by parliament as able to command a majority in the Commons is the PM.


but in law, yes. King could dissolve parliament and force a GE, if he feels like it, which who knows why not he might because he waited 60 years for having any power knows he'll be dead soon and probably thinks Johnson is a heinous bounder.


----------



## LDC (Oct 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yep, and in an 'ideal' world, Truss then stands again and succeeds him.



The MC Escher PM staircase.


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> but in law, yes. King could dissolve parliament and force a GE, if he feels like it, which who knows why not he might because he waited 60 years for having any power knows he'll be dead soon and probably thinks Johnson is a heinous bounder.


His best mate was Jimmy Savile. I'm sure he's fine with Boris Johnson.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

It looks as if Johnson will declare that he will run in the next few days according to James duddridge


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> It looks as if Johnson will declare that he will run in the next few days according to James duddridge


They’ve got to have 100 by 2pm Monday , idk if they have to declare anything though.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> but in law, yes. King could dissolve parliament and force a GE, if he feels like it, which who knows why not he might because he waited 60 years for having any power knows he'll be dead soon and probably thinks Johnson is a heinous bounder.


It's not a hung parliament so he wouldn't do it as it would be seen as "political".


----------



## moochedit (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> It looks as if Johnson will declare that he will run in the next few days according to James duddridge


He has until monday i think?


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

moochedit said:


> It's not a hung parliament so he wouldn't do it as it would be seen as "political".


yes he won’t .


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> It looks as if Johnson will declare that he will run in the next few days according to James duddridge


this is the kind of hot-off-the-press update the thread needs


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 21, 2022)

Well if we're getting into 'technicals'.

It doesn't have to be an MP.

It's a relegation battle.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> and then what? maybe it's fine, politics as an endlessly farcical reality tv show and that's it. Not like they’re hurting anyone apart from themselves is it


The long term destruction of the Tory party, in the same vein as finished the Liberal party as a force, is to be welcomed unreservedly imo.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> Well if we're getting into 'technicals'.
> 
> It doesn't have to be an MP.
> 
> ...




"Well I did say I wasn't going to manage another team of spoilt little narcissist cunts but I was talking about football teams at the time your highness, yes of course I'd like to take the job."


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> this is the kind of hot-off-the-press update the thread needs


Dudders apparently


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Dudders apparently


Certainly a fucking dud


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

The Boris momentum is growing. Possibly worth a punt over the weekend if the timing is right.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> The long term destruction of the Tory party, in the same vein as finished the Liberal party as a force, is to be welcomed unreservedly imo.


Can’t get happy about any of it. It’s not like the money and interests behind it are going to disappear is it


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> The Boris momentum is growing. Possibly worth a punt over the weekend if the timing is right.


Him and Rishi were both on evens earlier.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> Can’t get happy about any of it. It’s not like the money and interests behind it are going to disappear is it


It’s a step forward.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 21, 2022)

Get it early. His odds are only going one way.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> It’s a step forward.


that’s optimistic


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Get it early. His odds are only going one way.


Depends. More dirt could come out over the weekend scuppering him.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> that’s optimistic


Johnson will lead the tories to glorious defeat and hopefully oblivion


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> that’s optimistic


You don’t think the long term destruction of the Tory Party is a step forward? It begs the question, what does a step forward look like in your view?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Depends. More dirt could come out over the weekend scuppering him.


The man's nothing but layer upon layer of filth


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> Can’t get happy about any of it. It’s not like the money and interests behind it are going to disappear is it



You sound like Smokeandsteam now.

I long ago gave up hope for change in my lifetime. Sure you keep fighting etc but the revolution is not on the horizon. But things like this? The biggest most stupid implosion of the Tory party ever? If I can't dance to this I'm not coming to your party.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> You don’t think the long term destruction of the Tory Party is a step forward? It begs the question, what does a step forward look like in your view?


I’m a doom person, find it much easier to imagine a far right ascendancy rising from the ashes than a sunny outcome to their implosion as a party.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> The man's nothing but layer upon layer of filth


His opponents must know his return sounds the death knell. They (hopefully) will take up cudgels, the roar of the arena loud in their ears, the smell of blood in their nostrils and attack! Throw shit, quick!


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

This is worth a read









						Totentanz | Conservative Home
					

Conservative MPs, peers, donors, hacks and activists caper their way towards an open grave, with Johnson himself leading the procession. The dance possesses them; it has a momentum of its own; they are powerless to stop.




					conservativehome.com


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

But ye I’ll stop, just not enjoying the popcorn wish I was tho.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> His opponents must know his return sounds the death knell. They (hopefully) will take up cudgels, the roar of the arena loud in their ears, the smell of blood in their nostrils and attack! Throw shit, quick!


It'll be absorbed by Johnson, the only way to get rid of him is wash him away


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> But ye I’ll stop, just not enjoying the popcorn wish I was tho.


But the thread's great


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> It'll be absorbed by Johnson, the only way to get rid of him is wash him away


Cut a tendon at the back of his knee and see big dog fall


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> You don’t think the long term destruction of the Tory Party is a step forward?



depends really what happened next

something even further right than the current tory party could fill the vacancy (although arguably the current tory party is closer to traditional UKIP than traditional tory and the current labour party is closer to what the tories were before and after thatcher than traditional labour)

or something new and to the left of labour might happen

or the lib dems could surge to a new role as one of the two major parties

hmm


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> depends really what happened next
> 
> something even further right than the current tory party could fill the vacancy (although arguably the current tory party is closer to traditional UKIP than traditional tory and the current labour party is closer to what the tories were before and after thatcher than traditional labour)
> 
> ...


Ye which of those sounds most likely, given the amount of money it takes to be a poltical force here.


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 21, 2022)

Labour will fill the vacancy. A one party Starmerite state.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> Labour will fill the vacancy. A one party Starmerite state.


Jubilation.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 21, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> Labour will fill the vacancy. A one party Starmerite state.


With _sensible_ spending cuts.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Depends. More dirt could come out over the weekend scuppering him.


Come on. They've all got dirt. And you can rely on their opponents to remind people.

Not that I can take any joy in the alternative.


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 21, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> With _sensible_ spending cuts.



A boot _caressing _a human face


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> Labour will fill the vacancy. A one party Starmerite state.


Shammerite


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> Ye which of those sounds most likely, given the amount of money it takes to be a poltical force here.


What would you prefer, the status  quo or something else?


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

Something else unless it's their first album.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> What would you prefer, the status  quo or something else?


The something else that happens next after we’ve laughed at Tory party collapsing, you think it’s going to be something better and I think its going to be worse, dunno what else to tell you.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> The something else that happens next after we’ve laughed at Tory party collapsing, you think it’s going to be something better and I think its going to be worse, dunno what else to tell you.


I’m asking as to what you would like to happen now?


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> Something else unless it's their first album.


the first four all have their moments tbf


----------



## TopCat (Oct 21, 2022)




----------



## planetgeli (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> View attachment 348208



Amazingly fair odds if you don't think Mourdant has a chance. Take her out and that's 50/50 odds there (you could bet on both and not lose).


----------



## Sue (Oct 21, 2022)

Just going to put this here.  









						Scottish Tories dread the return of Boris Johnson
					

Some senior party members believe Mr Johnson returning to Downing Street would be "very dangerous".



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

Sue said:


> Just going to put this here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are they bullshiting or really that obtuse?


> *I thought she would be boring.*
> That is the key reason one senior Scottish Conservative gives for backing Liz Truss for the premiership.
> This politician had been seeking a drama-free replacement for Boris Johnson. Someone who would quietly get on with the job.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 21, 2022)

I was going to quote that bit too


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

My heart bleeds 
[The Times]


> 20,000 face exclusion from Tory leadership vote​Members without email will miss out on choosing the next prime minister







__





						archive.ph
					





					archive.ph


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> My heart bleeds
> [The Times]
> 
> 
> ...


Ah what a shame


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

Rishi Sunak it appears to have reach  the 100 total but not yet declared


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Ah what a shame


never mind

Yanno Idgaf about old email-less people being unable to vote in the tory shitshow 

but it bothers me when elders can't access bank accounts, health records etc because they aren't online. It's seriously disabling.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Rishi Sunak it appears to have reach  the 100 total but not yet declared


to win a contest without entering. That's some tory zen


----------



## Raheem (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Rishi Sunak it appears to have reach  the 100 total but not yet declared


He needs to keep going though. If he can't gift Mordaunt the extra names she needs, he's still toast.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> View attachment 348208




Slightly ironic odds, given neither will get that in votes.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

TopCat said:


> The Boris momentum is growing. Possibly worth a punt over the weekend if the timing is right.


Maybe that's part of the plan too. 

*Bojo *sponsored by Paddy Power.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 21, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> My heart bleeds
> [The Times]
> 
> 
> ...



How are there even 20,000 people in the country without email? You'd have to be both rich and old to get away with it.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 21, 2022)

Quite possibly horse shit but


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> You'd have to be both rich and old



possible overlap with conservative party membership...


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> How are there even 20,000 people in the country without email? You'd have to be both rich and old to get away with it.


You have to be old. Dunno about rich (see above)

but anyway - I'm still trying to process whether the absence of this 20,000 is a plus or a minus. Can't imagine who they'd be voting for.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Oct 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> How are there even 20,000 people in the country without email? You'd have to be both rich and old to get away with it.


Email is the killer protocol 😎
I said I’d leave the country if BJ gets in when heard Truss resigned.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 21, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Can't imagine who they'd be voting for.


Reginald Maudling, probably.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 21, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Quite possibly horse shit but
> View attachment 348223



What's going on with that graphic? Why are there two number 10's? Why does Sunak's name have a picture of Johnson? Just a nightmare.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Reginald Maudling, probably.


Heh, can never think of him without this:


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

Which ever Candidate take of as Prime Minister will have to deal the worsing economic downturn as credit agency Moddys have downgraded its economic outlook for the UK from stable to negative 

They are citing policy uncertainty weak growth and high inflation


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> What's going on with that graphic? Why are there two number 10's? Why does Sunak's name have a picture of Johnson? Just a nightmare.



The entire website is a migraine, hence the crop.


----------



## not a trot (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Which ever Candidate take of as Prime Minister will have to deal the worsing economic downturn as credit agency Moddys have downgraded its economic outlook for the UK from stable to negative
> 
> They are citing policy uncertainty weak growth and high inflation



It's all the fault of Putin, that's all Tory voters need to be told. And Corbyns just waiting to stage a coup should Labur win the GE. You just know thick Tory voters would fall for that.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

not a trot said:


> It's all the fault of Putin, that's all Tory voters need to be told. And Corbyns just waiting to stage a coup should Labur win the GE. You just know thick Tory voters would fall for that.


Hmmmm... operation re-elect Big Allotment IRA Sympathy Anti-Jew Guy   This is getting very Robert Anton Wilson now. When do we get to fuck the apple?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

Johnson is a plane on the way home that's the breaking news on sky news right now


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 21, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 22, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> View attachment 348228



In fairness Putin got the worst value for money out of Boris of all of us.

Remember kids, Boris is only for rent not purchase


----------



## weltweit (Oct 22, 2022)

Boris Johnson, really?


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 22, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> In fairness Putin got the worst value for money out of Boris of all of us.
> 
> Remember kids, Boris is only for rent not purchase



Johnson is a likely a long term investment. Russian intelligence likely began working Trump back in the 80s.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 22, 2022)

My comment: Boris Johnson, really?

Was an exclamation intending to ridicule the Tories that might seriously be considering Johnson as a potential new leader now, I have no opinion on Putin and Johnson, I am just amazed Tories are seriously considering Johnson again, yes again? After the omnishambles of last time.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 22, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Johnson is a likely a long term investment. Russian intelligence likely began working Trump back in the 80s.




Putin has already lost enough money in Ukraine to make any amount of investment useless 


The chaos and reputational damage already inflicted on the uk is fairly priceless though.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 22, 2022)

What was that saying? 

Madness is doing the same thing as before, but expecting a different result? 

They have done Johnson before and look at how that resulted.


----------



## wow (Oct 22, 2022)

My bet: Boris


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 22, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Putin has already lost enough money in Ukraine to make any amount of investment useless
> 
> 
> The chaos and reputational damage already inflicted on the uk is fairly priceless though.



Don’t assume it’s simply money Putin’s after. He’s possibly the richest person on the planet already. The financial impact of the war is probably a temporary inconvenience for his petrostate. No doubt the chaos and division Johnson creates is being a good dog for Putin. So much so, his handler‘s son named his dog “Boris”.


What’s the next pisstake?


----------



## Ming (Oct 22, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Hmmmm... operation re-elect Big Allotment IRA Sympathy Anti-Jew Guy   This is getting very Robert Anton Wilson now. When do we get to fuck the apple?


He’s an unrepentant monster (i think we might have a thread on that one).


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 22, 2022)

Al Johnson to win the tory 'election' and then lose his seat at the next GE, brought forward by the mass resignations/defections of people who know they are gonna lose their seats anyway. Bring it on!


----------



## ska invita (Oct 22, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Johnson is a plane on the way home that's the breaking news on sky news right now


Please stop posting news headlines that we can all see for ourselves.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 22, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Al Johnson to win the tory 'election' and then lose his seat at the next GE, brought forward by the mass resignations/defections of people who know they are gonna lose their seats anyway. Bring it on!


What's the likelihood of the mass resignations or defections


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 22, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Please stop posting news headlines that we can all see for ourselves.


Ok I'll try


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 22, 2022)




----------



## Ming (Oct 22, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Don’t assume it’s simply money Putin’s after. He’s possibly the richest person on the planet already. The financial impact of the war is probably a temporary inconvenience for his petrostate. No doubt the chaos and division Johnson creates is being a good dog for Putin. So much so, his handler‘s son named his dog “Boris”.
> 
> View attachment 348231
> What’s the next pisstake?


I do like the directness. No messing around there. I'd love to know what Kompromat they've got on BJ after that party he attended in that villa on the top of that oligarch owned mountain in Italy. When he left his close protection team at the bottom of it and came back dishevelled. 

And he's going to be our next PM. Again.


----------



## LDC (Oct 22, 2022)

FFS, were you all pissed or high when you started on the Putin conspiracy theory shit last night?


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

I think Mourdant's announcement was a desperate plea for MPs to nominate and she won't make the contest. And if it's down to Sunak and Johnson the indicative vote will mean fuck all.


----------



## strung out (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> I think Mourdant's announcement was a desperate plea for MPs to nominate and she won't make the contest. And if it's down to Sunak and Johnson the indicative vote will mean fuck all.


Wouldn't be surprised to see a waiting game from Anyone But Johnson backers. They might inherently prefer Sunak, but if Johnson looks like he might only just squeak over 100, they could back Mordaunt late on to try and beat Johnson into third.


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

strung out said:


> Wouldn't be surprised to see a waiting game from Anyone But Johnson backers. They might inherently prefer Sunak, but if Johnson looks like he might only just squeak over 100, they could back Mordaunt late on to try and beat Johnson into third.


Where's the advantage in waiting? They can nominate Mourdant and vote for Sunak.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 22, 2022)

LDC said:


> FFS, were you all pissed or high when you started on the Putin conspiracy theory shit last night?


because of course there is no way Johnson could have compromised himself at that villa without his security detail, but obvs nothing to do with Putin, just ordinary kompromat.

Btw,  I am neither pissed nor high, 
Sadly.


----------



## strung out (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Where's the advantage in waiting? They can nominate Mourdant and vote for Sunak.


Because they don't want to risk one of their two preferred candidates not making it to the final two, so they're playing a game of chicken to see who else commits to Johnson.

Plus Sunak and Johnson haven't actually declared they're running yet, so presumably there's a lot of waiting and seeing over the weekend.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

LDC said:


> FFS, were you all pissed or high when you started on the Putin conspiracy theory shit last night?


Ffs can't you think of more than two alternatives?


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

strung out said:


> Because they don't want to risk one of their two preferred candidates not making it to the final two, so they're playing a game of chicken to see who else commits to Johnson.
> 
> Plus Sunak and Johnson haven't actually declared they're running yet, so presumably there's a lot of waiting and seeing over the weekend.


Sunak's backers claim he has the 100. Which seems likely or why announce it? 

I suppose they could be waiting to see if Johnson makes it at all before piling on to Mourdant.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Johnson is a plane on the way home that's the breaking news on sky news right now


Boris Johnson was booed by the passengers on the plane


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Sunak's backers claim he has the 100. Which seems likely or why announce it?
> 
> I suppose they could be waiting to see if Johnson makes it at all before piling on to Mourdant.


Mind games


----------



## Cid (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Sunak's backers claim he has the 100. Which seems likely or why announce it?
> 
> I suppose they could be waiting to see if Johnson makes it at all before piling on to Mourdant.



Trying to work out whether a deal between the two is possible.


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

Given that every change for the last few years has been for the worse I think 'back where we started' is going to be enormously attractive to a lot of people.


----------



## Cid (Oct 22, 2022)

Or, put another way, Johnson is trying to work out whether he can persuade Sunak to withdraw, and Sunak is trying to work out whether he can be persuaded.


----------



## Cid (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Given that every change for the last few years has been for the worse I think 'back where we started' is going to be enormously attractive to a lot of people.



No, but Tories will be Tories.

<I read that wrong>


----------



## two sheds (Oct 22, 2022)




----------



## bimble (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Given that every change for the last few years has been for the worse I think 'back where we started' is going to be enormously attractive to a lot of people.


Yep Johnson is the good old days now.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> Yep Johnson is the good old days now.


These are still the good old days. Just you wait.


----------



## redcogs (Oct 22, 2022)

When i'm nostalgic it is often for the 1960s and 70s, which was at least a period of some optimism.  Sections of the  vermin Party  are so trapped by virulent short termism and greed that they long for a return to two or three months ago.  When will we be rid of these shambolic and ineffective dangerous shits?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 22, 2022)

Will no one rid us of these turbulent priests?


----------



## prunus (Oct 22, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Will no one rid us of these turbulent priests?



I hope you made sure there were a couple of impulsive knights accidentally in earshot before you said that, or it won’t work 🙁


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 22, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Will no one rid us of these turbulent priests?


That's Terry Pratchett, he's come back to fuck shit up and then he'll go again.


----------



## Sue (Oct 22, 2022)

two sheds said:


> View attachment 348248


A sentiment we can all get behind.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 22, 2022)

prunus said:


> I hope you made sure there were a couple of impulsive knights accidentally in earshot before you said that, or it won’t work 🙁


I like how that suggests it's actually some kind of mystic invocation


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 22, 2022)

Unsurprisingly, most of Truss's supporters from the last leadership contest backing Johnson over Sunak. Meanwhile, Sunak has lost 3 to Johnson, but Morduant has lost 6 to both Sunak and Johnson.

Which must be particularly galling as the only candidate who's currently gone as far at to actually announce they're in the running!


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

I'd imagine there's a fairly large group of MPs who are still arguing about whether they're running back to Boris or backing Mourdant. I note none of the Essex sex offender MPs have declared who they're nominating yet. 

Plus what's the point of being the 101st vote for Sunak at this point, they're not obliged to nominate someone are they?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 22, 2022)

I'm sensing johnson won't get 100, which is a shame in terms of chaos and destruction in the tory party. The silver lining is seeing the cunt come back off his holidays to get defeated again.


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Plus what's the point of being the 101st vote for Sunak at this point, they're not obliged to nominate someone are they?


The higher his nomination number is the more pressure it puts on waverers to back him. His ideal is to be closing in on the 200 and making it difficult for the others to hit the threshold.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Plus what's the point of being the 101st vote for Sunak at this point, they're not obliged to nominate someone are they?


There are over 300 tory MPs.  All three of them could get 100 nominations. The 111 dotted line is where he has to get to to be sure of being in the play-off final when they go to the members.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 22, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> There are over 300 tory MPs.  All three of them could get 100 nominations. The 111 dotted line is where he has to get to to be sure of being in the play-off final when they go to the members.


Sunak needs Mordor to stay in the game to reduce the chances of johnson getting 100 and it going to the members. No guarantees johnson wins with the members and it will be a mad scramble with plenty of IT fails if they have an online ballot, but he'll be favourite, My guess is Sunak ends up PM and Morodor has her choice of job after that weird sort of a deal in these circumstances - agreeing to stay in rather than the usual agreeing to stay out of the contest. He'll probably offer her a few of his billions and his unused Green Card as well.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 22, 2022)

Could Johnson have ended his Carribbean holiday prematurely??


----------



## agricola (Oct 22, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> The higher his nomination number is the more pressure it puts on waverers to back him. His ideal is to be closing in on the 200 and making it difficult for the others to hit the threshold.



This, really.  If he gets more than half the Parliamentary Party it should (or at least would in any normal electorate) demonstrate to Johnson's camp that the coalition that removed him is still there, and to the membership that they are backing the wrong side again.

That said it isn't really about numbers overall so much as it is numbers of committed people.  If Sunak wins by mere numbers (or if there is a coronation) the Johnson / Rees-Mogg faction are going to do what they did with May; ie: block everything they don't like and insist the reason the party is weak and not unified is because the other lot don't listen to them.  If Johnson wins, the Sunak lot will be whittled down and gradually shown the door (a process they've been undertaking since he took over).   

To win effectively, Sunak has to show that what they appear to have done with Truss will happen again; that a PM who doesn't command the true adherence of the parliamentary party upon which their majority depends is never going to be able to govern. Then when he has won, he then has to start removing the likes of Dorries, Rees-Mogg and ultimately Johnson out of the party.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 22, 2022)

Let’s look at this long term - having Johnson as a malevolent force on the sidelines will undermine whatever rictus grinning shitbag gets the job. More turbulence please. It’s goi g to be painful whatever happens but an evisceration of the tory party is a realisable dream


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 22, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Let’s look at this long term - having Johnson as a malevolent force on the sidelines will undermine whatever rictus grinning shitbag gets the job.


How much longer would Johnson stick around if he doesn't get PM again? Will he think there's another shot later down the line, or will he just pack it in and go have fun in the media and after-dinner circuit?


----------



## philosophical (Oct 22, 2022)

How come the cunt has had three holidays since leaving office?
Isn't he supposed to be holding constituency surgeries and the like?
Cunt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Could Johnson have ended his Carribbean holiday prematurely??


Yes, he could have drowned


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 22, 2022)

philosophical said:


> How come the cunt has had three holidays since leaving office?
> Isn't he supposed to be holding constituency surgeries and the like?
> Cunt.


Clearly not it seems


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I'm sensing johnson won't get 100, which is a shame in terms of chaos and destruction in the tory party. The silver lining is seeing the cunt come back off his holidays to get defeated again.


He'll depart in high dudgeon to spend more time with his money


----------



## Petcha (Oct 22, 2022)

The Mail had a live flight tracker up on their site tracking his flight back from the Caribbean. This whole thing is utterly bonkers.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 22, 2022)

Petcha said:


> The Mail had a live flight tracker up on their site tracking his flight back from the Caribbean. This whole thing is utterly bonkers.


Presumably the flight details are relatively public knowledge, but could you not get in a fair bit of trouble doing summat like that?


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 22, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> How much longer would Johnson stick around if he doesn't get PM again? Will he think there's another shot later down the line, or will he just pack it in and go have fun in the media and after-dinner circuit?


Johnson's biggest asset is his total self-belief in the face of all evidence. Any normal person would have been downed by the "hiding in a fridge" incident or the "chased down the street after Brexit" incident, one more humiliation is not that big a deal to a man of such Etonian confidence. Plus he still has a big constituency within his party and the press that is genuinely still either beholden or bewitched by him (even the Telegraph is only saying "leave it til a bit later"). It wouldn't surprise me at all if he takes another pop even is he loses this one.


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 22, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Presumably the flight details are relatively public knowledge, but could you not get in a fair bit of trouble doing summat like that?


Not really, flight tracker websites use info in the public domain and there will only be a few if not just one flights from Punta Cana to the UK, probably flying into Gatters


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Presumably the flight details are relatively public knowledge, but could you not get in a fair bit of trouble doing summat like that?


There are a dozen or so websites that provide that info on all flights for free.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 22, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Johnson's biggest asset is his total self-belief in the face of all evidence. Any normal person would have been downed by the "hiding in a fridge" incident or the "chased down the street after Brexit" incident, one more humiliation is not that big a deal to a man of such Etonian confidence. Plus he still has a big constituency within his party and the press that is genuinely still either beholden or bewitched by him (even the Telegraph is only saying "leave it til a bit later"). It wouldn't surprise me at all if he takes another pop even is he loses this one.


Would agree it wouldn't be about self-belief; was more just wondering whether he could be bothered hanging around in the meantime.

He got the top job, and although it probably didn't go _quite _as he wanted, would he be tempted by more 'fun'/lucrative opportunities elsewhere? And he could still play kingmaker from the sidelines, but without the restraints of parliament (I know, I know, but it's probably had _some _effect on his behaviour...).


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 22, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Not really, flight tracker websites use info in the public domain and there will only be a few if not just one flights from Punta Cana to the UK, probably flying into Gatters





maomao said:


> There are a dozen or so websites that provide that info on all flights for free.



Aye, just wondered if there were rules around platforming that info, or with the express purpose of tracking an ex-PM/current MP, or maybe he was on a private flight and there are different rules or summat.

Did figure it was unlikely, though


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 22, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> How much longer would Johnson stick around if he doesn't get PM again? Will he think there's another shot later down the line, or will he just pack it in and go have fun in the media and after-dinner circuit?


He probably didn’t expect Truss to disintegrate this soon, so might consider this something of a “bonus chance” in addition to the main play he will make after the tories lose the next election. So no, I very much doubt he’s going to just give up if he loses this time.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 22, 2022)

Johnson has his ton of twats


----------



## bimble (Oct 22, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Johnson has his ton of twats


No he doesn’t he’s just pretending.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 22, 2022)

philosophical said:


> How come the cunt has had three holidays since leaving office?
> Isn't he supposed to be holding constituency surgeries and the like?
> Cunt.



Can you imagine how fucking desperate you'd have to be to think 'I'm going to go see my MP Boris Johnson, see what he can do to help me resolve this situation?'

Yeah, I know plenty of people _are _that fucking desperate these days, largely because of Johnson and his mates fucking everyone over in the first place. But you'd be better off saving your shoe leather, staying at home and having a bit of an old pray or something, hoping that that would sort things out for you.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 22, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Johnson has his ton of twats


Does he through


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Given that every change for the last few years has been for the worse I think 'back where we started' is going to be enormously attractive to a lot of people.





bimble said:


> Yep Johnson is the good old days now.



Taking us back to what they delusionally imagine were the 'good old days' is literally the raison d'etre of the Tory Party, isn't it? This doesn't bode well.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> No he doesn’t he’s just pretending.





Bingoman said:


> Does he through



I guess we'll find out, but the BBC think he does.

<edit: oh, or not.  >


----------



## bimble (Oct 22, 2022)

the source for the claim that he has 100 backers (only half of them named)  is apparently James Duddridge , his mate, on twitter. i think its bollocks.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 22, 2022)

Did seem a bit of a surprising leap in figures.

Ah well, we'll know soon enough.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> the source for the claim that he has 100 backers (only half of them named)  is apparently James Duddridge , his mate, on twitter. i think its bollocks.


Why am I not surprised


----------



## bimble (Oct 22, 2022)

I think he's going to say on Monday, 'i had plenty of backers, loads of them, they were clamouring for my return, but i've decided not to stand'.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> the source for the claim that he has 100 backers (only half of them named)  is apparently James Duddridge , his mate, on twitter. i think its bollocks.


Problem is : If Tory MPs fall for it, they will flock to Johnson, so it could become a self-fulfilling prophesy.


----------



## bimble (Oct 22, 2022)

bbc being happy to spread that "news" about johnson having 100 with absolutely no evidence just a tweet from his friend, what was that about ffs.


----------



## bimble (Oct 22, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Problem is : If Tory MPs fall for it, they will flock to Johnson, so it could become a self-fulfilling prophesy.


well yep thats their hope isn't it, that tweet was part of their campaign.


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 22, 2022)

Have we had this one yet?  Could maybe be attached to the email sent out when the tories ask their members to vote.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2022)

I can’t remember if we’ve had this one yet.


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 22, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I can’t remember if we’ve had this one yet.
> 
> View attachment 348334


I take it we’ve had it then… 

will post again tomorrow, just in case


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Yes, he could have drowned


Or decapitated whilst driving pissed in the DR, like wot Falco did


----------



## brogdale (Oct 22, 2022)

Already getting a tad fraught out there in tory land...


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> bbc being happy to spread that "news" about johnson having 100 with absolutely no evidence just a tweet from his friend, what was that about ffs.



Media are just infatuated with him because he helps them to fill column inches and the yawning chasms of 24-hour news with the minimum of effort on their part.

Seeing the Guardian (I think) posting footage of Johnson's plane landing yesterday as if that's news was uncomfortably reminiscent of the US network in the 2016 US election campaign that broadcast an empty stage for about an hour because Trump was due to speak on it later, rather than covering an actual speech that Clinton was giving elsewhere at the same time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Media are just infatuated with him because he helps them to fill column inches and the yawning chasms of the 24-hour news without the minimum of effort on their part.
> 
> Seeing the Guardian (I think) posting footage of Johnson's plane landing yesterday as if that's news was uncomfortably reminiscent of the US network in the 2016 US election campaign that broadcast an empty stage for about an hour because Trump was due to speak on it later, rather than covering an actual speech that Clinton was giving elsewhere at the same time.


If Adolf Hitler flew in today they'd send a limousine anyway


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Or decapitated whilst driving pissed in the DR, like wot Falco did


No more rock me amadeus


----------



## brogdale (Oct 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> If Adolf Hitler flew in today they'd send a limousine anyway


Always appropriate.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> No he doesn’t he’s just pretending.


What! A man with his reputation, lying you say?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Given that every change for the last few years has been for the worse I think 'back where we started' is going to be enormously attractive to a lot of people.


Where we started for me was the premiership of Edward heath who in comparison to the current crop of cunts was a superlative prime minister. Bring him back, as everyone knows the only good tory is a dead one


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Where we started for me was the premiership of Edward heath who in comparison to the current crop of cunts was a superlative prime minister. Bring him back, as everyone knows the only good tory is a dead one


As long as you keep the filthy fucker away from children.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> I take it we’ve had it then…
> 
> will post again tomorrow, just in case


Post what?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> As long as you keep the filthy fucker away from children.


Just place his corpse in number 10


----------



## story (Oct 22, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Seems to be the prevailing view amongst my more elderly neighbours too



Not just the elderly.

Anyone who voted for BJ when he “won the mandate in a landslide” who wasn’t crucified by bereavement during the pandemic, any who bent the rules themselves, any who can only recall the whole sorry saga as a vague and distant memory… they’ll vote for him again. He may not get anything like the same majority but he will win.


----------



## xenon (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> I think he's going to say on Monday, 'i had plenty of backers, loads of them, they were clamouring for my return, but i've decided not to stand'.



Supports of PM.


----------



## bimble (Oct 22, 2022)

if true, these people are just terminally stupid, bereft of even the most basic self interested cunning 
The only way they ever got to be MPs is because nobody normal wants to do it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> if true, these people are just terminally stupid, bereft of even the most basic self interested cunning
> The only way they ever got to be MPs is because nobody normal wants to do it.
> 
> View attachment 348344


“The risk for an MP is that it leaves them looking somewhat ridiculous”.




😐


----------



## not a trot (Oct 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> *Where we started for me was the premiership of Edward heath who in comparison to the current crop of cunts was a superlative prime minister*. Bring him back, as everyone knows the only good tory is a dead one


Always hated his government since they raised the school leaving age to 16. Hated secondary school, then halfway through the cunts made me stay on an extra year. Though looking back, that 5th year wasn't all that bad.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> if true, these people are just terminally stupid, bereft of even the most basic self interested cunning
> The only way they ever got to be MPs is because nobody normal wants to do it.
> 
> View attachment 348344



The nominations will be secret though - easy to publicly come out for Boris to your constituents yet not actually nominate him.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> The nominations will be secret though - easy to publicly come out for Boris to your constituents yet not actually nominate him.


Not if he has 150 public backers but no official nominations…


----------



## bimble (Oct 22, 2022)

What is a nomination anyway is it a different thing from an MP writing 'i back boris ' on twitter with flags on?

Stupid game this, probably even worse if you're actually playing not just watching.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2022)

There really aren’t enough bullets in the world for this group of self serving, back stabbing, shameless, bastards.


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There really aren’t enough bullets in the world for this group of self serving, back stabbing, shameless, bastards.


I'm sure there are. Less than 400 for the PCP and less than 200,000 to do the membership. A fraction of what we send to Ukraine.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There really aren’t enough bullets in the world for this group of self serving, back stabbing, shameless, bastards.


who needs bullets when there are thousands of penguins crying out to fill their stomachs with our tory politicians


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 22, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There really aren’t enough bullets in the world for this group of self serving, back stabbing, shameless, bastards.



We would  have to test that Theory before taking it as fact


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 22, 2022)

story said:


> Not just the elderly.
> 
> Anyone who voted for BJ when he “won the mandate in a landslide” who wasn’t crucified by bereavement during the pandemic, any who bent the rules themselves, any who can only recall the whole sorry saga as a vague and distant memory… they’ll vote for him again. He may not get anything like the same majority but he will win.


he wont. he cant. hed probably be chucked out again within 6 months anyway.  Polling puts him behind sunak with the general public. If he got back in, he would inevitably remind everyone of just what a useless,  selfish, cunt he is within a few weeks.  He won in 2019 because of "get brexit done", "toxic to many" corbyn - and by massively bullshitting. Hes not some super charismatic magic man - most people think hes a complete  arsehole.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 22, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> How are there even 20,000 people in the country without email? You'd have to be both rich and old to get away with it.


I was speaking to one of my tenants recently , he's younger than me and doesn't have an email address (or admit to one) . He said it meant he didn't have to claim UC on-line , he could go to the DWP office & update them directly.  So not just the rich or old tbf (he's 55)


----------



## story (Oct 22, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> he wont. he cant. hed probably be chucked out again within 6 months anyway.  Polling puts him behind sunak with the general public. If he got back in, he would inevitably remind everyone of just what a useless,  selfish, cunt he is within a few weeks.  He won in 2019 because of "get brexit done", "toxic to many" corbyn - and by massively bullshitting. Hes not some super charismatic magic man - most people think hes a complete  arsehole.



I hope my gloomy doomy worries are over-egged and you’re right.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 22, 2022)

Anyone who doesn’t seem aware Boris would be the first to start taking about getting past 100 (especially if he’s first to do so) and starts reporting gossip as factual really needs to be taken away gently before they lose it all investing in invisible paint


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 22, 2022)

Badenoch backs Sunak, and Sunak and Johnson due to meet. I think it's all over.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 22, 2022)

So it seem the 100 Johnson supporters he claims he got has not matilised


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 22, 2022)

are either the nominations or the MP votes secret?

could MP's say they have nominated the honking pudding then really nominate, or vote for one of the better less crap candidates?


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> So it seem the 100 Johnson supporters he claims he got has not matilised


Maybe they'll matilise tomorrow.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 22, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> are either the nominations or the MP votes secret?
> 
> could MP's say they have nominated the honking pudding then really nominate, or vote for one of the better less crap candidates?



The votes are anonymous (although last time, Johnson asked his supporters to photograph their voting slip as proof).


----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

Raheem said:


> The votes are anonymous (although last time, Johnson asked his supporters to photograph their voting slip as proof).


That's votes, these are nominations.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> That's votes, these are nominations.


Yes, that's why I used the word "votes".


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> That's votes, these are nominations.


Nothing worse than an inaccurate pedant I hear


----------



## bimble (Oct 22, 2022)

There's a Bring Back Boris hashtag happening on twitter and it has its own iconography.
Who are these people who have made these things what is wrong with them, seriously.


.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2022)

bimble said:


> There's a Bring Back Boris hashtag happening on twitter and it has its own iconography.
> Who are these people who have made these things what is wrong with them, seriously.
> 
> 
> View attachment 348385.    View attachment 348388 View attachment 348387


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


>



If only they all had but one neck


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 22, 2022)

The coalition of people who'd like BJ back must be the oddest bedfellows ever - elderly southern Tories with memory problems, red wall thugs looking to fuck everything up even more for the fun of it, and Nicola Sturgeon whose Christmases will all arrive at once. There is absolutely nobody else in the entirety of Britain with anything to gain.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 22, 2022)

Do pigeons eat grass?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2022)




----------



## maomao (Oct 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Nothing worse than an inaccurate pedant I hear


Yes there is, a smart arse.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

maomao said:


> Yes there is, a smart arse.


How easily you change your tune


----------



## Ming (Oct 22, 2022)

LDC said:


> FFS, were you all pissed or high when you started on the Putin conspiracy theory shit last night?


If that’s directed at me…yes i had quaffed a few sherbets lol!

However…









						Revealed: Boris, the Russian oligarch and the Page 3 model
					

Exclusive: Parties at Italian villa where ‘nothing is off the menu’ raise fresh concerns about PM hopeful being a ‘security risk’.




					www.opendemocracy.net


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 22, 2022)

LDC said:


> FFS, were you all pissed or high when you started on the Putin conspiracy theory shit last night?



Buy a dictionary.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2022)

Well my MP isnt backing Johnson and it's upsetting the local party members lol


----------



## gosub (Oct 23, 2022)

Callum91 said:


> Has there ever been a reason given as to why Mogg himself has never ran for the top job?


1922 have instructions to shoot his carrier pigeon so he ever feel included to stand..

(possibly not true)


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>



And his surprised by that


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Well my MP isnt backing Johnson and it's upsetting the local party members lol





Glad to see his treachery hasn’t been forgotten.


----------



## Sue (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> And his surprised by that


Of course.


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

I know she's ludicrous, but even so, "we're bringing [fellow member and potential leader of our party] down with us" feels pretty next level in terms of lack of self-preservation or dignity.



<edit: OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE, IT SAYS RIGHT THERE IN THE PROFILE NAME THAT THE SECOND TWEET IS FROM A PARODY ACCOUNT>


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know she's ludicrous, but even so, "we're bringing [fellow member and potential leader of our party] down with us" feels pretty next level in terms of lack of self-preservation or dignity.



Wtf that's just Mad


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know she's ludicrous, but even so, "we're bringing [fellow member and potential leader of our party] down with us" feels pretty next level in terms of lack of self-preservation or dignity.



No honour among thieves


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

Go Nads!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Wtf that's just Mad


She's like a single ray of hope peeking through the storm clouds.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 23, 2022)

This shower have set the cause of women's progress back decades - though my reasoning may well be off because the male Tories are batshit crazy too ....


----------



## bimble (Oct 23, 2022)

second tweet's a parody account but still


----------



## weltweit (Oct 23, 2022)

130 yet to state a preference ..


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

She's been the only tory saying anything close to the truth in the last few days.

Sadly though, my understanding is that the main charge against Johnson is lying to the house. If Sunak knew about it but didn't lie about knowing about it, he may be ok.


----------



## elbows (Oct 23, 2022)

The Guardian shared this:


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 23, 2022)

elbows said:


> The Guardian shared this:



Right now this seems an entirely likely scenario. Glorious, isn’t it?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know she's ludicrous, but even so, "we're bringing [fellow member and potential leader of our party] down with us" feels pretty next level in terms of lack of self-preservation or dignity.
> 
> 
> 
> <edit: OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE, IT SAYS RIGHT THERE IN THE PROFILE NAME THAT THE SECOND TWEET IS FROM A PARODY ACCOUNT>



A love so true


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2022)

elbows said:


> The Guardian shared this:



Dream scenario


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

elbows said:


> The Guardian shared this:



It would _almost_ be worth it...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Right now this seems an entirely likely scenario. Glorious, isn’t it?


It's the hope that kills ya. In reality, Johnson won't get to 100 and Sunak will be crowned tomorrow.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 23, 2022)

Can anyone come up with an outcome that _doesn’t_ entirely fuck the Tory party?


----------



## maomao (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> It would _almost_ be worth it...


It would totally be worth it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know she's ludicrous, but even so, "we're bringing [fellow member and potential leader of our party] down with us" feels pretty next level in terms of lack of self-preservation or dignity.
> 
> 
> 
> <edit: OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE, IT SAYS RIGHT THERE IN THE PROFILE NAME THAT THE SECOND TWEET IS FROM A PARODY ACCOUNT>



tbf, the second tweet doesn't misrepresent the first tweet.


----------



## bimble (Oct 23, 2022)

people cheering on a Johnson triumph you must think the damage would be restricted to within the tory party. Which i find very weird.


----------



## maomao (Oct 23, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Can anyone come up with an outcome that _doesn’t_ entirely fuck the Tory party?


Yes, Sunak wins and Kieth rims him at pmq every week to try and make himself look trustworthy on economics.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 23, 2022)

maomao said:


> Yes, Sunak wins and Kieth rims him at pmq every week to try and make himself look trustworthy on economics.


Sunak winning sets the party membership against the MP’s though. They don’t want the man they see as responsible for getting rid of Boris, never mind before you consider their views on the colour of his skin.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> people cheering on a Johnson triumph you must think the damage would be restricted to within the tory party. Which i find very weird.


What more damage to 'the country' would he do that others wouldn't?

The thing I most fear is a competent-looking tory PM. They're the ones that do the most damage.


----------



## maomao (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> people cheering on a Johnson triumph you must think the damage would be restricted to within the tory party. Which i find very weird.


I'm not convinced that Boris losing results in lower damage. Two years of super austerity sounds worse than a collapse.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> tbf, the second tweet doesn't misrepresent the first tweet.


That's the _only_ solace I am taking from this


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's the hope that kills ya. In reality, Johnson won't get to 100 and Sunak will be crowned tomorrow.


And the gammons are just going to love that. It seems to be lose, lose all round.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

weltweit said:


> 130 yet to state a preference ..


Cowards waiting to see the way the wind is blowing.  There'll be a stampede towards sunak at some point before tomorrow morning.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 23, 2022)

elbows said:


> The Guardian shared this:



Perfect storm.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Right now this seems an entirely likely scenario. Glorious, isn’t it?


Don't think it will happen, there hasn't been much of a drift towards johnson today, if anything it's away from him.  We'll see when all of the tory lice come out of the wordwork and put their votes in, but my guess is that johnson will never actually declare.  Having not seen the news for a while, I might be entirely wrong on that.


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

elbows said:


> The Guardian shared this:




Be funny if Johnson is elected leader of the Tory Party whilst Sunak becomes PM.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> people cheering on a Johnson triumph you must think the damage would be restricted to within the tory party. Which i find very weird.


Eh?  I see a johnson win as the very thing that guarantees they lose the next election.  Whoever wins, there'll be a 'sensible' chancellor doing cuts and neoliberalism in power till 2024/5.  And with Rachel Reeves after that...


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

elbows said:


> The Guardian shared this:



Bring on the Chaos and let's see what happens next


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> And the gammons are just going to love that. It seems to be lose, lose all round.


Sarcasm yea???...just checking


----------



## elbows (Oct 23, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> What more damage to 'the country' would he do that others wouldn't?


I suppose we have to factor in the fucking markets. Might get some clues about that tomorrow.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Oct 23, 2022)

Is this even possible? Boris as leader of Conservative Party but Sunak as PM.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

If Johnson wins will there be chaos in the party and how many MPs and peers will walk away from the party and force a GE


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> Is this even possible? Boris as leader of Conservative Party but Sunak as PM.




its absolutely possible - it has happened before (after Chamberlain fell in 1940 when he was Leader but Churchill was PM) and no PM could function without having the confidence of a majority of their MPs


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 23, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> Is this even possible? Boris as leader of Conservative Party but Sunak as PM.



dunno really.

i don't think it's a legal / constitutional requirement for the PM of the day to be leader of their party, if they can pass a confidence vote in the HoC

think it would piss off a fair proportion of party members and the pro-johnson MP's though (whether it would piss enough MPs off enough to vote 'no confidence' and bring a general election on, i'm not sure)


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> dunno really.
> 
> i don't think it's a legal / constitutional requirement for the PM of the day to be leader of their party, if they can pass a confidence vote in the HoC
> 
> think it would piss off a fair proportion of party members and the pro-johnson MP's though (whether it would piss enough MPs off enough to vote 'no confidence' and bring a general election on, i'm not sure)



TBF the pro-Johnson MPs are going to do that anyway if he loses this election; all these calls for unity are of course about everyone else falling into line rather than themselves.


----------



## contadino (Oct 23, 2022)

I doubt that even the Johnson headbangers would stretch to supporting a vonc in the house, though. Not with so many polls currently being what they are.

Even if you're convinced that Johnson is a vote-magnet, he'd need a minimum of 6 months to bribe/butter up the electorate.


----------



## elbows (Oct 23, 2022)

Tonights claim:


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

agricola said:


> TBF the pro-Johnson MPs are going to do that anyway if he loses this election; all these calls for unity are of course about everyone else falling into line rather than themselves.


Christ, the Trump comparisons just keep coming...


----------



## xenon (Oct 23, 2022)

Chaos is a ladder, etc.


----------



## contadino (Oct 23, 2022)

elbows said:


> Tonights claim:



Oh. The election was stolen....


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

agricola said:


> its absolutely possible - it has happened before (after Chamberlain fell in 1940 when he was Leader but Churchill was PM) and no PM could function without having the confidence of a majority of their MPs


Don't see what's in it for Johnson, though. He wants to be Churchill, not Chamberlain.


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Christ, the Trump comparisons just keep coming...



TBF that lot have been doing this since the votes on May's deal.


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Don't see what's in it for Johnson, though. He wants to be Churchill, not Chamberlain.



He does, but in terms of parallels (a big majority following on from a previous Tory regime, overwhelming support from the Tory Press, vicious treatment of dissident MPs, European wars starting without effective attempts to prepare for them, loads of gaslighting, contempt for those who know more about a subject than him) there are far more with Chamberlain than Churchill.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 23, 2022)

contadino said:


> Oh. The election was stolen....


I was thinking about this earlier - would any of them (Johnson) use that as an excuse going forward. 
Not in a January 6th way, but a way of undermining whoever wins going forward. 
The chances are that neither Sunak or Mordant (apologies for the spelling) would have Johnson in their cabinet, save maybe one of th odd of the way ones. So he'd mostly likely, until the next election (whenever that may be), by on the backbenches able to broadly do and say what he wanted - especially if the Fail or the S*n et al give him a column or something. 

"I was shafted by the powebrokers in the Parliamentary Party. But you, the fine British people, had my back the whole way!"

Type shite.

He might see it as an opertunity to 'make a come back' if the Tories (fingers crossed) get fucked over in the next election.


----------



## quiet guy (Oct 23, 2022)

He's no Winston but does have the look of


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2022)

edited, I dont want to quote hodges.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

contadino said:


> Oh. The election was stolen....


Call me cynical but I dont believe it atm


----------



## elbows (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> edited, I dont want to quote hodges.


I dont mind posting his tweets on an occasion such as this.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## contadino (Oct 23, 2022)

So I can see the thought process of someone who's comfortable with lies, saying that they have 100 supporters in a hope that it garners further support.

However, I can't understand why they're doubling down on it now.

Either they have shy supporters and Brady's inbox will be bursting at the seams, or they're cueing up a playground tantrum that involves "the election was stolen"


----------



## bimble (Oct 23, 2022)

i don't get it either, the posh peanut has said it on tv as well, that they've definitely got 100.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2022)

agricola said:


> He does, but in terms of parallels (a big majority following on from a previous Tory regime, overwhelming support from the Tory Press, vicious treatment of dissident MPs, European wars starting without effective attempts to prepare for them, loads of gaslighting, contempt for those who know more about a subject than him) there are far more with Chamberlain than Churchill.


Only chamberlain was a far more able politician


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2022)

xenon said:


> Chaos is a ladder, etc.


Rhythm is a dancer


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Christ, the Trump comparisons just keep coming...


Yeh lazy and disappointing isn't it


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> i don't get it either, the posh peanut has said it on tv as well, that they've definitely got 100.
> View attachment 348564


One of the many shitty things is that if it turns out they were bullshitting, there's a better than average chance that afterwards they'll still profit more than they lose.

Barefaced lies, and they'll more than likely get away with it and suffer no long-term repercussions for it.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 23, 2022)

Im guessing the reprise of  "Johnson has 100mps"  is desperate bluff and bullshit.  Which will only heap on the humiliation. What time do we find out tomorrow? 
And yeah - disgruntled johnson supporters (50odd mps?) are going to be creating ongoing shit for sunak/mourdant for not letting the vile fuckwit return.


----------



## bimble (Oct 23, 2022)

But if it’s bluff it’s a very stupid one because means he’ll have to explain why having got his 100 he’s chosen after all not to let the membership who love him have their say.

Maybe they’re just that short term in their lies, this one today, just in case it helps, new one tomorrow if it fails.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> But if it’s bluff it’s a very stupid one because means he’ll have to explain why having got his 100 he’s chosen after all not to let the membership who love him have their say.
> 
> Maybe they’re just that short term in their lies, this one today, just in case it helps, new one tomorrow if it fails.


Yes. Johnson has always operated like this.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

Yup, pretty standard grifter MO.


----------



## contadino (Oct 23, 2022)

What? "I didn't know it was a leadership contest..."


----------



## bimble (Oct 23, 2022)

just, imagine living like that, with no idea what lie you might tell tomorrow to cover up today's. Apart from everything else it must be completely fucking exhausting, no wonder he looks like he does.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> just, imagine living like that, with no idea what lie you might tell tomorrow to cover up today's. Apart from everything else it must be completely fucking exhausting, no wonder he looks like he does.


You've failed to factor in psychopathy. He doesn't give a fuck.


----------



## bimble (Oct 23, 2022)

ok i take it all back it must be true .


----------



## SysOut (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> just, imagine living like that, with no idea what lie you might tell tomorrow to cover up today's. Apart from everything else it must be completely fucking exhausting, no wonder he looks like he does.


Yes, he did the same with the Brexit agreements, didn't he? Ink hardly dry and he was going to refuse to honour them. He was willing to turn a legal agreement into a lie.


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 23, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You've failed to factor in psychopathy. He doesn't give a fuck.



More like mythomania


----------



## bimble (Oct 23, 2022)

Its's Sunday night and they're shouting about how they've defo got more than 100, which if it's true he'll be on the ballot thing for the members at 2pm tomorrow and if not then very obviously not. Hurts my head trying to find any sense in it.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)

whats weird Bojo and his team giving it the bigun saying that have the votes and pressuring people to back Boris


just sounds like the don't want a second breakfast of Boris


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2022)

Loving all the Johnson-phobic vermin coming out with Project Fear 2.0


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)

was it not on the other thread that the  Johnson-phobic vermin cannot just come out and say that they fear losing an election because of a brown skinned PM


----------



## SysOut (Oct 23, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Loving all the Johnson-phobic vermin coming out with Project Fear 2.0


Johnson-phobic = vermin ? Oh.


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 23, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Johnson-phobic = vermin ? Oh.



All Tories are vermin


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Johnson-phobic = vermin ? Oh.


Wasn't meant like that. There are Johnson-philic vermin and there are Johson-phobic vermin.


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> whats weird Bojo and his team giving it the bigun saying that have the votes and pressuring people to back Boris
> 
> 
> just sounds like the don't want a second breakfast of Boris



Of course it is about tormenting his followers as well, seeing who is willing to publicly support Johnson (and risk humiliation and/or punishment from the opposing faction) before the man himself actually admits he is in the running.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)

if he gets in he will have the knives out to purge the party of disloyal members

great for us as the party will be in even more of fractured state


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 23, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> All Tories are vermin



unfair to vermin


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

Must admit, I don't believe he's got 100 for a second.  If there's even the remotest semblance of truth in the claim, I bet it's those who have declared for him + those who voted for him last time who haven't so far opted for one of the other 2.  Basically, a neo-lie. Alternatively, a lie.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> unfair to vermin


Although it's a helpful reminder that Bevan said _lower than_ vermin.


----------



## xenon (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> just, imagine living like that, with no idea what lie you might tell tomorrow to cover up today's. Apart from everything else it must be completely fucking exhausting, no wonder he looks like he does.



Nah. It's only hard if he has to bother remembering yesterday's lie. Just say something else today, bluff and stammer a bit, change the subject, do a mock self deprecation or crack a joke, big up the British people then  get back in the car....


----------



## xenon (Oct 23, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You've failed to factor in psychopathy. He doesn't give a fuck.



If you look at it like a game, as I think his ilk do, you can see how it's done. I can sort of get it. Not sure how you keep a straight face whilst playing though.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 23, 2022)

xenon said:


> Nah. It's only hard if he has to bother remembering yesterday's lie. Just say something else today, bluff and stammer a bit, change the subject, do a mock self deprecational or crack a joke, big up the British people then  get back in the car....


the popular media papering over/avoiding the cracks.


----------



## not a trot (Oct 23, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Must admit, I don't believe he's got 100 for a second.  If there's even the remotest semblance of truth in the claim, I bet it's those who have declared for him + those who voted for him last time who haven't so far opted for one of the other 2.  Basically, a neo-lie. Alternatively, a lie.



His odds on winning the leadership are actually lengthening with the bookies .And  the odds on him being PM after the next election are around 8/1.


----------



## xenon (Oct 23, 2022)

SysOut said:


> the popular media papering over/avoiding the cracks.



Yep. All part of the circus.


----------



## teqniq (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> just, imagine living like that, with no idea what lie you might tell tomorrow to cover up today's. Apart from everything else it must be completely fucking exhausting, no wonder he looks like he does.


He looks like he does because he's a complete dissolute with expensive habits who really doesn't give a shit. I am also getting a little tired of everybody and their dog referring to him as 'Boris'. This confers some kind of matey familiarity upon him that he does not in any sense deserve. It should be just 'Johnson' or hopefully 'the defendant'.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 23, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Although it's a helpful reminder that Bevan said _lower than_ vermin.



Vermin at least serve a purpose,garbage disposal, plague warfare, attractive pets.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

Labour now on 62%. Astonishing,






						Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Badenoch backs Sunak, and Sunak and Johnson due to meet. I think it's all over.



It is now


----------



## elbows (Oct 23, 2022)

Ah yes.


----------



## LDC (Oct 23, 2022)

Bollocks. Sunak as PM then.


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## Sue (Oct 23, 2022)

elbows said:


> Ah yes.



So nothing at all to do with not getting enough nominations, eh?


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 23, 2022)

Sue said:


> So nothing at all to do with not getting enough nominations, eh?



No he got 102


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2022)

blustercunt's bottled it, the cunt


----------



## contadino (Oct 23, 2022)

Well he's no Churchill.


----------



## maomao (Oct 23, 2022)

Aw.


----------



## Supine (Oct 23, 2022)

Good. 

Johnson would have been a disaster, again. Fuck him.


----------



## Sue (Oct 23, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> No he got 102


Aye right. 

ETA And the 'I reached out because of the national interest but Sunak and Mordaunt don't CARE about the national interest' bollocks. Such utter brass neck.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Woo hoo all that bluff from his supporters


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

what an absolute fraud 

even the lettuce put itself into the contest


----------



## a_chap (Oct 23, 2022)

And yet, according to the BBC News web site...

**


----------



## bimble (Oct 23, 2022)

That’s it?
He’s not going to even explain to the members how come he’s got the 100 but decided to fuck off instead?


----------



## LDC (Oct 23, 2022)

He said something vague about not uniting the party and not being the right time. Who cares though, shit for us he's out. We're going to get a slick, competent, and millionaire PM who will slowly erase the last disastrous months for them in the eyes of many, might even get them a GE win next time.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 23, 2022)

A second coming of Boris would just continue to validate and promote racism. Fuck him.


----------



## bimble (Oct 23, 2022)

Poor michael.


----------



## magneze (Oct 23, 2022)

He must have been having a terrible holiday.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

We are going to get a Coronation


----------



## elbows (Oct 23, 2022)

It wasnt all that vague. He couldnt lead the parliamentary party with that sort of split and so thats the backbone of his explanation now. And he wants to be able to claim he did the right thing this time, in the party and national interest.

Taking a step back the entire thing might have been a show to make it look like a democratic contest but with the actual reality involving forces that could not actually allow the members to make a Truss-like bad choice, so making sure it was a rigged game.

Setting the bar at 100 and dangling Johnson there for a few days helped distract the headbangers. Unless they have time to whip up a headbanger candidate tomorrow, which would be quite an ask.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 23, 2022)

A tiny violin, then, for those "102" nominators, who must all be _so_ disappointed - to say nothing of all the headbangers in the shires. 

It's not going to be fun for Rish! either, because he's not going to have a united party behind him, and he's going to do some very very nasty things to their constituents.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 23, 2022)

Guardian says Boris isn't standing.

I'd like to add that, for the record, neither am I.


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> We are going to get a Coronation



at least tonight a Chicken has been identified


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Will Johnsons supporters back Mourdant


----------



## moochedit (Oct 23, 2022)

a_chap said:


> And yet, according to the BBC News web site...
> 
> *View attachment 348581*





			https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63327087


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

agricola said:


> what an absolute fraud
> 
> even the lettuce put itself into the contest


Yep, he knew he'd have had a chance with the members (personally, in the cold light of day, I'm not sure they would have actually voted for him, but hey), clearly nowhere near 100.  Is this his final lie in front line politics?  No, the fucking shite will be at it again after the 2024 election defeat.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 23, 2022)

BoJo's a No-go.

(Sorry, ban me now)


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Will Johnsons supporters back Mourdant



_That back-stabbing harlot, who refused to save the country when it needed it?   Judas had the decency to hang himself and invest the thirty pieces of silver _etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc _votes UKIP_


----------



## Sue (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Will Johnsons supporters back Mourdant


Maybe not all 102 of them....  

🤣


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

Anyway, I took his 'why I'm not standing' thing as 100% blaming the other 2 and 100% saying he'll be back in 2025. The shitstain.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

Sue said:


> Maybe not all 102 of them....
> 
> 🤣


Labour's polling figures are highter than than the number willing to back him.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Bill Cash 9n GB News blaming the Privilege committee investigating him for not standing , you couldn't make this up


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 23, 2022)

it'll be a gloomy night for weirdly animated peg-doll Greg Knight.


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 23, 2022)

"I confirm I have achieved the number of backers to stand as leader, therefore I've decided to drop out of the running"


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2022)

Blimey I go off to watch Dr Who and all this has happened.


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 23, 2022)

I think if there's a hell, it will feature a permanent Tory leadership contest in which no one ever actually wins.


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 23, 2022)

Oh this is fantastic...Happy days


----------



## ash (Oct 23, 2022)

First time Johnson has ever pulled out


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 23, 2022)

Does this mean that all Sunak backing MP's get to line up in the aye lobby in front of Rees-Mogg and get to file past slapping him upside the head?

I'm no constitutional expert, but there must be a clause somewhere.


----------



## Sue (Oct 23, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> I think if there's a hell, it will feature a permanent Tory leadership contest in which no one ever actually wins.


Yeah, the whole thing's ultimately depressing as fuck


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> That’s it?
> He’s not going to even explain to the members how come he’s got the 100 but decided to fuck off instead?



That would be being accountable.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 23, 2022)

bring back the lettuce...


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 23, 2022)

So I'm guessing Boris will just fuck off on holiday again now.


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 23, 2022)

Native Dorries..Jacob Rees Mogg...Naderm Zahawri...can you hear me...can you hear me...Your boy chickened out of a hell of a beating...a HELL of a beating


----------



## neonwilderness (Oct 23, 2022)

eatmorecheese said:


> Does this mean that all Sunak backing MP's get to line up in the aye lobby in front of Rees-Mogg and get to file past slapping him upside the head?
> 
> I'm no constitutional expert, but there must be a clause somewhere.


Hopefully Johnson’s backers will defect to Sunak if so


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Boris Johnsons sister is presenting on LBC and just broke the news on her own brother not standing, which is one of the most thing j have heard


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

bimble said:


> That’s it?
> He’s not going to even explain to the members how come he’s got the 100 but decided to fuck off instead?


Of course not. How would that serve his interests.

He never even stood, remember. And I doubt he ever went on the record about the 100. Left that to 'Dudders' and all the other suckers he has running around for him.

ETA: Sorry, I see he is claiming 102 votes. Lying his arse off to the last.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 23, 2022)

No class nor dignity.
He should have said simply that he was not going ahead and asked his supporters to give all their support to the new leader.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

two of his supporters have now endoring Sunak


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 23, 2022)

Sue said:


> Yeah, the whole thing's ultimately depressing as fuck



i mean if that oleaginous Manchurian candidate Sunak wins expect the delivery of the far-right economics that Truss lacked the credibility or intelligence to deliver. Expecvt the majority of the remaining slavers in the Tory party to clap like seals as more people's lives are made utterly miserable.

Sunak + Hunt
___________   x    Mainstream Media    =        "Competence"
Tory MPs

is a very 2022 equation I have to say. And one guaranteed to produce a remarkably wrong answer.

You just have to hope English (& some Welsh) folk stop voting for the bastards. They'll be wiped out in Scotland even if the Trussterfuck is succeeded by a functioning hologram of Lord Wellington with the voice of Winston Churchill. Recent weeks have shown hopeful signs.


----------



## tommers (Oct 23, 2022)

Hahahaha.


----------



## tommers (Oct 23, 2022)

Can I shock you?


----------



## TopCat (Oct 23, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> bring back the lettuce...


The members would never vote for a green.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 23, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> Native Dorries..Jacob Rees Mogg...Naderm Zahawri...can you hear me...can you hear me...Your boy chickened out of a hell of a beating...a HELL of a beating


Stealing this, just so you know. 
TIA
Xxx


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 23, 2022)

Zahawi looking like a proper cunt right now, the article he wrote backing “Boris 2.0” being published at almost precisely the same time as he pulled out


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Penny Mourdant has pick up at least one Johnson backer*,*none other than Michael Fabricant


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Zahawi looking like a proper cunt right now, the article he wrote backing “Boris 2.0” being published at almost precisely the same time as he pulled out



maybe he meant to headline that "Boris, to Zero"


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Penny Mourdant has pick up at least one Johnson backer*,*none other than Michael Fabricant


That's ruined her chances then


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 23, 2022)

what an utterly shameless bullshitter. Trumpian.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

tommers said:


> Hahahaha.



Upholding traditional Tory values.


----------



## tommers (Oct 23, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Zahawi looking like a proper cunt right now, the article he wrote backing “Boris 2.0” being published at almost precisely the same time as he pulled out




Amazing stuff from Zahawi.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Boris Johnsons sister is presenting on LBC and just broke the news on her own brother not standing, which is one of the most thing j have heard


She doesnt sound happy lol


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> She doesnt sound happy lol


Yup I was thinking that too


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2022)

Nadine's up on LBC now. Again not sounding happy.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Nadine's up on LBC now. Again not sounding happy.


Wheres my violin


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 23, 2022)

So, I guess the ideal scenario now is that Mordaunt gets enough backing to force a vote, then the reliably insane and racist Tory members actually elect her, then we have Truss 2.0


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

So is the argument he's trying to sell essentially "once I had the 100 nominations (definitely did, btw), I thought Rishi and Penny would agree to make me PM, but they didn't, so I have decided to do what they will not and step aside, for the good of the party/country"..?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 23, 2022)

(and before i get accused of being a tory, there may be elements  of  and  in that ironic  )


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Oh jeez mad nad on LBC say if Sunak gets in all hell will break loose,and now calling for an Election


----------



## ash (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Nadine's up on LBC now. Again not sounding happy.


The brass neck of the woman calling for a GE 🤷‍♀️


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 23, 2022)

If you can stomach dipping a toe into the slimier bits of twitter right now it’s hilarious to watch the meltdowns happening.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 23, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> (and before i get accused of being a tory, there may be elements  of  and  in that ironic  )


yeh yeh the mask has slipped you've outed yourself


----------



## Supine (Oct 23, 2022)

tommers said:


> Can I shock you?



If you tell us you think Boris is great then yes, you would shock us


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Nadine's up on LBC now. Again not sounding happy.


Is there _any_ chance it's Johnson she's not happy with..?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Is there _any_ chance it's Johnson she's not happy with..?


Which one him or his sister


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Which one him or his sister


Hopefully both.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 23, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Guardian says Boris isn't standing.
> 
> I'd like to add that, for the record, neither am I.


Johnson, it's fucking Johnson. I give up


----------



## MrSki (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Nadine's up on LBC now. Again not sounding happy.


----------



## Supine (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Oh jeez mad nad on LBC say if Sunak gets in all hell will break loose,and now calling for an Election



Go Nads 👎


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 23, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> Native Dorries..Jacob Rees Mogg...Naderm Zahawri...can you hear me...can you hear me...Your boy chickened out of a hell of a beating...a HELL of a beating


----------



## a_chap (Oct 23, 2022)

Just tuned in to LBC for the first time.

Do they have a rule that only complete idiots are allowed to phone in?


----------



## kabbes (Oct 23, 2022)

I am shocked. SHOCKED. That Johnson has not been allowed within a mile of leadership for a second time


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 23, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Johnson, it's fucking Johnson. I give up



Also Dorries but whatevs


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

a_chap said:


> Just tuned in to LBC for the first time.
> 
> Do they have a rule that only complete idiots are allowed to phone in?


Ah poor nads


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Penny Mourdant has pick up at least one Johnson backer*,*none other than Michael Fabricant


----------



## Supine (Oct 23, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I am shocked. SHOCKED. That Johnson has not been allowed within a mile of leadership for a second time



It may feel disappointing for a while but you’ll get over it


----------



## Sue (Oct 23, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I am shocked. SHOCKED. That Johnson has not been allowed within a mile of leadership for a second time


It wasn't that he wasn't allowed.  He stood aside for the good of the country, despite his 102 nominations.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

There's a lot to unpack in his statement. 



> “I believe I am well placed to deliver a Conservative victory in 2024 - and tonight I can confirm that I have cleared the very high hurdle of 102 nominations, including a proposer and a seconder, and I could put my nomination in tomorrow,” he said.
> 
> “There is a very good chance that I would be successful in the election with Conservative party members, and that I could indeed be back in Downing Street on Friday.
> 
> ...



I'm the right person for the job. The party and country would be best served by me being PM, and the party members know this. But Rishi/Penny won't step aside for me and half the MPs hate me, the treacherous dogs. Whatever goes wrong from now on, I'm not in government so it won't be my fault. None of them are worthy so I'm fucked if I'm going to actually back anyone else.


----------



## Ming (Oct 23, 2022)

SysOut said:


> No class nor dignity.
> He should have said simply that he was not going ahead and asked his supporters to give all their support to the new leader.


Well he did show his contempt for Ukraine with this absolutely deliberate gaff (look at the MP to the right). He values nothing apart from his own self interest.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 23, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, I guess the ideal scenario now is that Mordaunt gets enough backing to force a vote, then the reliably insane and racist Tory members actually elect her, then we have Truss 2.0


Nailed.


----------



## Lea (Oct 23, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, I guess the ideal scenario now is that Mordaunt gets enough backing to force a vote, then the reliably insane and racist Tory members actually elect her, then we have Truss 2.0


Yep, then she'll resign and Rishi will have another go...


----------



## kabbes (Oct 23, 2022)

Sue said:


> It wasn't that he wasn't allowed.  He stood aside for the good of the country, despite his 102 nominations.


Oh yes, sorry. That’s exactly what happened. The 102 MPs. You don’t know them, they go to another House of Commons.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 23, 2022)

“World King”


----------



## Raheem (Oct 23, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Johnson, it's fucking Johnson. I give up


Never give up. And start practicing "It's Sunak, it's fucking Sunak!"


----------



## Sue (Oct 23, 2022)

Lea said:


> Yep, then she'll resign and Rishi will have another go...


Third time lucky!

(Third? I've kind of lost track.)


----------



## Raheem (Oct 23, 2022)

Lea said:


> Yep, then she'll resign and *Rishi* will have another go...


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 23, 2022)

tommers said:


> Can I shock you?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> So I'm guessing Boris will just fuck off on holiday again now.


I'd quite like to be on reception when he gets back: '_oh... Mr Johnson! We all thought you'd... oh, well, welcome back!'_


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

tommers said:


> Can I shock you?


You can try


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>



It's not your "natural home" if you're only there because another option isn't available, you chuntering pillock


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> It's not your "natural home" if you're only there because another option isn't available, you chuntering pillock


he's a tory. It's his natural second home (paid for by expenses, natch).


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> It's not your "natural home" if you're only there because another option isn't available, you chuntering pillock


His 'natural home' is some sort of warren.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Oh jeez mad nad on LBC say if Sunak gets in all hell will break loose,and now calling for an Election


Maybe she'll defect to Labour?


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)

and keeping up repayments on the hair

Fabricunt is not trump with millions of rubes


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> There's a lot to unpack in his statement.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm the right person for the job. The party and country would be best served by me being PM, and the party members know this. But Rishi/Penny won't step aside for me and half the MPs hate me, the treacherous dogs. Whatever goes wrong from now on, I'm not in government so it won't be my fault. None of them are worthy so I'm fucked if I'm going to actually back anyone else.


At least he'll now have more time to spend with his constitu... nope... uh, his famil... nnnope... 

Huh


----------



## ska invita (Oct 23, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Nadine's up on LBC now. Again not sounding happy.


what a fucking staintion


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Maybe she'll defect to Labour?


No no let her stay where she is


----------



## ska invita (Oct 23, 2022)

::::::


----------



## killer b (Oct 23, 2022)

Oh lol.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)

let her go on i want the tory party to rip itself apart 

go team Boris


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

I want Nadine Dorries on every news outlet every hour right now.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 23, 2022)

Dorries wants an election but I'm guessing she won't resign her _own _seat in protest.


----------



## Smangus (Oct 23, 2022)

I'd laugh if Johnson slept on it and changed his mind in the morning. Anything is possible it seems these days.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 23, 2022)

With my depressed realist head on, I can see the majority of Tories tomorrow pretending Johnson never happened and crowning Sunak. Mordaunt says something magnanimous in return for the Home Office gig, and the words 'national interest' are mentioned 758 times.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 23, 2022)

Well, you can't argue with democracy. This sort of stuff would not be allowed in Russia.


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## ska invita (Oct 23, 2022)

I dont think ive ever spent so much time thinking about tories - i feel like i need a mental detox


----------



## neonwilderness (Oct 23, 2022)

”I had 1042 backers”


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)

check memory for Roman, Greek Or Shakespearean figures who ran away when the found out the wind was not turning their way


----------



## souljacker (Oct 23, 2022)

neonwilderness said:


> ”I had 1042 backers”



Many PM's of support


----------



## xenon (Oct 23, 2022)

Just caught up.  What an absolute prick.
Recycling my FB post.

SO loads of my mates wanted me to go to the party. Yeah they did. But actually I decided it was a bit too far to go actually and anyway I've got work in the morning. I was coming back from holiday anyway yeah. My mates definitely wanted me to go though and anyway I was gonna help Rishi but as I say I had to go home early because I've got work in the morning. Thanksbye....


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> Well, you can't argue with democracy. This sort of stuff would not be allowed in Russia.


They take themselves more seriously?


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)

ash said:


> First time Johnson has ever pulled out



he did say he was catholic in his last wedding


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## SysOut (Oct 23, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>











						Get ready for Boris 2.0, the man who will make the Tories and Britain great again
					

Fresher, stronger and more compassionate than before, he is the outstanding choice to lead our country through rough seas




					web.archive.org


----------



## Cloo (Oct 23, 2022)

I agree with my other half's proposition that he didn't get the 100 MPs. There's no fucking way Boris would ever 'do the right thing'.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

Anyone else wondering what number he had to be talked down from, to make the lie even _vaguely _plausible?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Anyone else wondering what number he had to be talked down from, to make the lie even _vaguely _plausible?



450


----------



## killer b (Oct 23, 2022)

This should be totally humiliating for the british political lobby, who've let him play them again.


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 23, 2022)

Smangus said:


> I'd laugh if Johnson slept on it and changed his mind in the morning. Anything is possible it seems these days.



"I had a good long think about it, then I looked at a picture of my 15 kids and decided pulling out is not in my nature."


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 23, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Maybe she'll defect to Labour?


She'll banging on that door, slurring the whole street awake, before it dawns on her she's accidentally been trying to get into the Elizabeth Arden Red Door spa rather than the Labour Party.


----------



## agricola (Oct 23, 2022)

killer b said:


> This should be totally humiliating for the british political lobby, who've let him play them again.



it is impossible for them to feel humiliation


----------



## wow (Oct 23, 2022)

All over bar the shouting.

No way Mordaunt can reach 100. I wouldn’t be surprised if her already low numbers decrease as her party colleagues pretend to rally around Sunak “for the sake of unity”.

This is a total win for the opposition.

Sunak is too conservative (small c) to win over the Johnson-ites, and too Conservative (big C) to overturn the opinion polls.

He’ll get a short honeymoon in the media, then the country will get fucked off with his austerity measures, the Johnson-ites will start undermining him for “sabotaging the Tory’s chances in the next election” and the whole charade will start again.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 24, 2022)




----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> View attachment 348609


Labour MP. Boring. We need tory-on-tory action.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Labour MP. Boring. We need tory-on-tory action.



Streeting is basically a tory, just with a red rossette.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

tommers said:


> Hahahaha.



Another snake 🤣


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

Boris had 100 backers ? 🤔 chinny reckon 

If he had, he wouldn't have bottled it , he would have won via the membership vote. 

Even though he bottled it , Blue on Blue fighting continues , Boris fans blaming a remainer cabal 🤣 tweeting #neverSunak #neverRishi , and suddenly threatening to leave the party & demanding a General Election 🤣

Tbf , Boris might walk it to the leadership of the post landslide rump of a party , definitely won't need 100 MPs then 🤣


----------



## story (Oct 24, 2022)

.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 24, 2022)




----------



## Yossarian (Oct 24, 2022)

The funniest part might be how badly the Tory faithful are getting fucked over - they wanted to keep Johnson but nope, they had to choose between Truss and Sunak. They chose Truss, six weeks later she's out and there's a tantalizing chance they could get to vote on bringing Johnson back, but nope, tough shit, you're getting Sunak. 

Maybe they're learning that you can never trust a Tory.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 24, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> The funniest part might be how badly the Tory faithful are getting fucked over - they wanted to keep Johnson but nope, they had to choose between Truss and Sunak. They chose Truss, six weeks later she's out and there's a tantalizing chance they could get to vote on bringing Johnson back, but nope, tough shit, you're getting Sunak.
> 
> Maybe they're learning that you can never trust a Tory.


Part of me thinks that he did it deliberately. Back me you snivelling fuckers ( the ones that resigned) and I'm off again and making you look like a bunch of pricks. Back off to the DR On me hols.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

I am so pissed off about this, I had a shit weekend, what with mother being rushed into hospital again on Saturday morning, I spent about 8 hours in A&E, had very little sleep that night, I started to watch Dr Who last night, found myself drifting off, so went to bed at just after 8pm.

My last thought as I drifted off to sleep was, 'that cunt had better wait until the morning before pulling out', because I wanted to witness the breaking news, and the selfish cunt didn't.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 24, 2022)

killer b said:


> This should be totally humiliating for the british political lobby, who've let him play them again.


Should be, from a credibility point of view. But from the point of view that they have hours of TV to fill, column inches to write and Twitter posts to tweet, one could say that they got exactly what they wanted.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 24, 2022)

Robbie Moore, a Tory MP who is supporting Penny Mordaunt, says he is "absolutely confident we have the numbers" required to force a run-off with Rishi Sunak.

Mordaunt currently has just 25 MPs who've publicly backed her campaign - she must reach 100 by 14:00 today.

In contrast, 155 have already announced their support for Sunak.

But Moore says he's confident Mordaunt will be on the ballot.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 24, 2022)

Go on Penny.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

TopCat said:


> he is "absolutely confident we have the numbers"



Now, where have I heard that before?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Go on Penny.


I had you down as a sunak supporter as he'll fuck off the membership, has loads of questions to answer round his former non-dom status etc, loads of conflicts of interest with his wife's wealth, his name goes down like a pint of vomit in houses claiming universal credit over the last couple of years, and much of the parliamentary Conservative party doesn't like him


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I am so pissed off about this, I had a shit weekend, what with mother being rushed into hospital again on Saturday morning, I spent about 8 hours in A&E, had very little sleep that night, I started to watch Dr Who last night, found myself drifting off, so went to bed at just after 8pm.
> 
> My last thought as I drifted off to sleep was, 'that cunt had better wait until the morning before pulling out', because I wanted to witness the breaking news, and the selfish cunt didn't.


You cursed it


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

agricola said:


> it is impossible for them to feel humiliation


Maybe so. But I'd like to see them really trying nonetheless


----------



## neonwilderness (Oct 24, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

neonwilderness said:


> View attachment 348622


Dorries is wondering what's happened to johnson's nads


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I had you down as a sunak supporter as he'll fuck off the membership, has loads of questions to answer round his former non-dom status etc, loads of conflicts of interest with his wife's wealth, his name goes down like a pint of vomit in houses claiming universal credit over the last couple of years, and much of the parliamentary Conservative party doesn't like him



Having a Hindu PM is going to piss-off loads of fucknuts too. Almost worth it for that.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I had you down as a sunak supporter as he'll fuck off the membership, has loads of questions to answer round his former non-dom status etc, loads of conflicts of interest with his wife's wealth, his name goes down like a pint of vomit in houses claiming universal credit over the last couple of years, and much of the parliamentary Conservative party doesn't like him


Mine was not a considered view to be fair.


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 24, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Having a Hindu PM is going to piss-off loads of fucknuts too. Almost worth it for that.


This is very likely why so many "we have a mandate to govern" Tories are now wetting themselves at the prospect of having a person of colour as PM. Watch as they bend their rules and regulations to suddenly become true democrats , if only to watch a Hindu lose the election and then they can get back to Boris.


----------



## belboid (Oct 24, 2022)

killer b said:


> This should be totally humiliating for the british political lobby, who've let him play them again.


What, so he went out of his way to get Johnson Humiliated / Bottle Job headlines?  Don’t be daft.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Having a Hindu PM is going to piss-off loads of fucknuts too. Almost worth it for that.



It will certainly piss off some, not sure about 'loads' TBH, because plenty of local parties have selected candidates that are other than white, including of course his own.


----------



## killer b (Oct 24, 2022)

belboid said:


> What, so he went out of his way to get Johnson Humiliated / Bottle Job headlines?  Don’t be daft.


I guess he thought he could build up enough of a head of steam from the media frenzy etc - he was wrong, but right at least that the frenzy would be obligingly provided.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It will certainly piss off some, not sure about 'loads' TBH, because plenty of local parties have selected candidates that are other than white, including of course his own.


Yeah, fortunately _giving a shit about the Prime Minister's religious beliefs_ isn't much of a thing in the UK.


----------



## killer b (Oct 24, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It will certainly piss off some, not sure about 'loads' TBH, because plenty of local parties have selected candidates that are other than white, including of course his own.


do the local parties have much control over who they get to represent them?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Robbie Moore, a Tory MP who is supporting Penny Mordaunt, says he is "absolutely confident we have the numbers" required to force a run-off with Rishi Sunak.
> 
> Mordaunt currently has just 25 MPs who've publicly backed her campaign - she must reach 100 by 14:00 today.
> 
> ...


Was just reminded how the news channels, particularly the bbc, are tied into all this bullshit.  Just turned the news channel on and they had the usual people stood in downing street: 'we don't who it might be... there's a chance it will be sunak today... could be tomorrow... walking through that door... Mordaunt still claims...'.  FFS, just grow up and report on how we all know it's going to play out.  They have reporters there, wanting to do all the theatre, so the pointless theatre is what they do.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

Practically speaking, I'm not sure Mordaunt can continue if she has, say, 102 votes to Sunak's 200+. Think she'd be under massive pressure to stand aside (in return for a nice big Cabinet job).


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

killer b said:


> do the local parties have much control over who they get to represent them?



Yes, according to the two members I know, they get a short list from their local party executive, and a vote on those.


----------



## belboid (Oct 24, 2022)

killer b said:


> I guess he thought he could build up enough of a head of steam from the media frenzy etc - he was wrong, but right at least that the frenzy would be obligingly provided.


He didn’t play them very well then.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 24, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It will certainly piss off some, not sure about 'loads' TBH, because plenty of local parties have selected candidates that are other than white, including of course his own.



I'm not talking about Tory MPs, I'm talking about racist boneheads and Britain First types.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

belboid said:


> He didn’t play them very well then.


It was a long shot. I mean he was forced out in disgrace just a couple of months ago. It was a really long shot. But he's won long shots before, and playing the media like that was an essential part of it. Still failed, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it effectively.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I'm not talking about Tory MPs, I'm talking about racist boneheads and Britain First types.



Oh, I thought you were talking about the membership, which is clearly not as racist overall as some seem to think.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

A r/w fucker has just become prime minister of Italy on the back of a platform that centres on Christianity and Christian identity, but I don't think we're near that kind of place here tbh. And a secular Hindu is hard to turn into a threat.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

There will be a pretty big reshuffle once Sunak is crowned - a few Boris nominators will have to go - Cleverley for one - Nadhim another - he'll have to keep Hunt atm because markets - Mordaunt will get a decent gig - which probably means Grant Shapps (aka Michael Green) gets shifted - but probably to another gig .  He might keep some of the Truss folk - but will want his own people in mainly - with a nod towards 'unity'.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

You do have to wonder about someone like Stupidley. He's already way above his level at the FO. Why didn't he just keep schtum?


----------



## belboid (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It was a long shot. I mean he was forced out in disgrace just a couple of months ago. It was a really long shot. But he's won long shots before, and playing the media like that was an essential part of it. Still failed, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it effectively.


It’s not ‘playing the media’ tho.  Of course they covered it, they often cover farces.  He was clearly lying (about numbers) and they said that. He got headlines about being humiliated and a failure.  In absolutely no way is that ‘effective’

You’re playing his game that anything he does is genius in some way.   But it’s bollocks, he’s just an egotist with abysmal judgement.   If anything the media played him, got him to throw away his The Return card.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

belboid said:


> It’s not ‘playing the media’ tho.  Of course they covered it, they often cover farces.  He was clearly lying (about numbers) and they said that. He got headlines about being humiliated and a failure.  In absolutely no way is that ‘effective’
> 
> You’re playing his game that anything he does is genius in some way.   But it’s bollocks, he’s just an egotist with abysmal judgement.   If anything the media played him, got him to throw away his The Return card.


I don't think it's genius, but it is the case that he's fallen up several times through his career. That he failed this time doesn't necessarily mean he did it badly. Just means he was attempting the impossible.

And I'm not sure he ever did have a The Return card. When the Tories are kicked out, they won't be going back to Johnson. His day is done. I think that was already true.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You do have to wonder about someone like Stupidley. He's already way above his level at the FO. Why didn't he just keep schtum?


Ironically, stable owner Nadhim backed the wrong horse  Cleverley has managed to bag a few cabinet posts now - by being a Boris loyalist - then a Truss Loyalist , then a Boris Loyalist again, then whoops, a Sunak loyalist


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't think it's genius, but it is the case that he's fallen up several times through his career. That he failed this time doesn't necessarily mean he did it badly. Just means he was attempting the impossible.


yeh if it was impossible then gladstone wouldn't have come back from a) losing a general election and b) resigning as leader of his party. sure it was beyond johnson. but there are many things that are beyond johnson's pitiable capabilities


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, I thought you were talking about the membership, which is clearly not as racist overall as some seem to think.


Yep, the tory party has certainly embraced the 'diversity of the rich'.


----------



## belboid (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't think it's genius, but it is the case that he's fallen up several times through his career. That he failed this time doesn't necessarily mean he did it badly. Just means he was attempting the impossible.
> 
> And I'm not sure he ever did have a The Return card. When the Tories are kicked out, they won't be going back to Johnson. His day is done.


So not really playing the media/political class at all then


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh if it was impossible then gladstone wouldn't have come back from a) losing a general election and b) resigning as leader of his party. sure it was beyond johnson. but there are many things that are beyond johnson's pitiable capabilities


I can see Johnson coming back after the (probable) Labour Landslide - leading the rump of the Tory party as opposition leader would just about be within his capabilities.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> I can see Johnson coming back after the (probable) Labour Landslide - leading the rump of the Tory party as opposition leader would just about be within his capabilities.


yeh, in part because he'd be the biggest arse in that rump


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> I can see Johnson coming back after the (probable) Labour Landslide - leading the rump of the Tory party as opposition leader would just about be within his capabilities.


I can't. They'll be all about 'renewal'.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I can't. They'll be all about 'renewal'.


He will blame the defeat on them not having him as a leader - the party will be in shock depending on the scale of the defeat - it'll go to the members unless the 1922 committee has another change of rules - the membership adores Boris.


----------



## bimble (Oct 24, 2022)

belboid said:


> So not really playing the media/political class at all then


The BBC sent out a news alert text thing  saying ‘boris has 100 backers’ on Saturday , and only afterwards added that this actually might not be true. Thats absolutely shameful for them, it being based on nothing at all but a tweet from his campaign twat friend.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> He will blame the defeat on them not having him as a leader - the party will be in shock depending on the scale of the defeat - it'll go to the members unless the 1922 committee has another change of rules - the membership adores Boris.


He might blame the defeat on them not having him as leader, but will anyone be listening to him by then? He may well have been further discredited by the privileges committee by then - and likely have lost his seat. I think things will look very different, even to party members.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> The BBC sent out a news alert text thing  saying ‘boris has 100 backers’ on Saturday , and only afterwards added that this actually might not be true. Thats absolutely shameful for them, it being based on nothing at all but a tweet from his campaign twat friend.


i hope you've written to richard sharp demanding an apology


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> The BBC sent out a news alert text thing  saying ‘boris has 100 backers’ on Saturday , and only afterwards added that this actually might not be true. Thats absolutely shameful for them, it being based on nothing at all but a tweet from his campaign twat friend.


You have to feel for all the Boris fans who were so certain on Saturday that their man would be on the ballot and would make a magnificent return * 





*actually no, #fuck em.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> The BBC sent out a news alert text thing  saying ‘boris has 100 backers’ on Saturday , and only afterwards added that this actually might not be true. Thats absolutely shameful for them, it being based on nothing at all but a tweet from his campaign twat friend.





			Contact the BBC Board


----------



## bimble (Oct 24, 2022)

I think it’s significant how he managed to totally dominate the news for days, it was a kind of trolling.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

Sky just reported that Sunak now has 183 MPs publicly supporting him, so over half of the 357.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 24, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sky just reported that Sunak now has 183 MPs publicly supporting him, so over half of the 357.


51.9% Sunak  : 48.1% Dormant would be great


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

This from the political editor at LBC amused me.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He might blame the defeat on them not having him as leader, but will anyone be listening to him by then? He may well have been further discredited by the privileges committee by then - and likely have lost his seat. I think things will look very different, even to party members.


tbf, his seat is vulnerable - he's unlikely to be able to get a safer seat before the election - where it's probably only current uber-safe seats will remain in Tory hands - so he may have to plot his way back - I think my point is , we haven't seen the last of him - he will be plotting.


----------



## bimble (Oct 24, 2022)

Will the grotesque halfwits like dorries  cleverly & mogg who owe their positions to the Johnson show be put back in their boxes and far away from any kind of power now? Hope so.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

Again from Sky, the Mordaunt campaign claims she now has the support of 90 MPs.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 24, 2022)

The Times of India disagrees -

"Mordaunt far from qualifying threshold of 100: Leader of the Commons Penny Mordaunt, the only other contestant in the race, has much ground to cover to hit the 100-MPs mark, giving rise to the possibility that the former finance minister may well be declared the new leader as soon as Monday evening."


----------



## maomao (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> Will the grotesque halfwits like dorries  cleverly & mogg who owe their positions to the Johnson show be put back in their boxes and far away from any kind of power now? Hope so.


Your wrong in thinking these people are any worse than the rest of the Tories (or most of the Labour party for that matter).


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> tbf, his seat is vulnerable - he's unlikely to be able to get a safer seat before the election - where it's probably only current uber-safe seats will remain in Tory hands - so he may have to plot his way back - I think my point is , we haven't seen the last of him - he will be plotting.


He'll be plotting like Trump is plotting in that case - for something that isn't going to happen. 

Of course, I may be wrong, but my bet is that Johnson will never be in government again nor leader of the opposition. Long shot that it was, this weekend was his best chance.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> *The Times of India disagrees -*
> 
> "Mordaunt far from qualifying threshold of 100: Leader of the Commons Penny Mordaunt, the only other contestant in the race, has much ground to cover to hit the 100-MPs mark, giving rise to the possibility that the former finance minister may well be declared the new leader as soon as Monday evening."



So does Guido, including those privately supporting them, Sunak is on 193, Mordaunt on just 30.


----------



## bimble (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> Your wrong in thinking these people are any worse than the rest of the Tories (or most of the Labour party for that matter).


I don’t see things that way. Patel for instance, in the position of Home Secretary,  i don’t think it’s true that anyone else would have been just as bad. Johnson cultivated and elevated some properly dangerous idiots.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don’t see things that way. Patel for instance, in the position of Home Secretary,  i don’t think it’s true that anyone else would have been just as bad. Johnson cultivated and elevated some properly dangerous idiots.


And Brexit cleared out the remainer wing of the Tory party. 

I think we can all become numb to it sometimes - I can at least - but _deporting refugees to Rwanda_ is a thing now. We're governed by extremists.


----------



## belboid (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And Brexit cleared out the remainer wing of the Tory party.



There are still over 100 members of the One Nation group, even in this parliament.  He just cleared out the ones anyone has heard of.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

belboid said:


> There are still over 100 members of the One Nation group, even in this parliament.  He just cleared out the ones anyone has heard of.


Fair point. They're not allowed to say 'Brexit was a fuck-up', though, are they? Mind you, neither are Labour MPs.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

I m not sure Mourdant can continue in this race, no way does she have 90 atm


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

ERG group have just said they would back who ever the leader is and unite under them?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> ERG group have just said they would back who ever the leader is and unite under them?


Have they?


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 24, 2022)

will they fuck...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don’t see things that way. Patel for instance, in the position of Home Secretary,  i don’t think it’s true that anyone else would have been just as bad. Johnson cultivated and elevated some properly dangerous idiots.


How easily theresa may is forgotten


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> I think it’s significant how he managed to totally dominate the news for days, it was a kind of trolling.


Nah, he _really _wanted the job back.  

Whether he would want it after a defeat in 2024, I don't know.  Part of him, the egotistical bit - which is the only bit there is - would want a triumphal return, being summoned from the wilderness and all that. But whether he'd want 5 years hard slog as leader of the opposition, is another thing entirely.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

So far, 3 former Johnson supporters have switched to Mordaunt, 15 to Sunak.


----------



## maomao (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don’t see things that way. Patel for instance, in the position of Home Secretary,  i don’t think it’s true that anyone else would have been just as bad. Johnson cultivated and elevated some properly dangerous idiots.


If anything, Patel spent so much energy tilting at windmills (the Rwanda thing is horrible, but no-one has been sent there) that she did dless actual damage than Javid or May. As a rule of thumb, competent Tories are a lot scarier than incompetent loons (not suggesting May was competent though).


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> If anything, Patel spent so much energy tilting at windmills (the Rwanda thing is horrible, but no-one has been sent there) that she did dless actual damage than Javid or May. As a rule of thumb, competent Tories are a lot scarier than incompetent loons (not suggesting May was competent though).


Just mooting the rwanda policy was damaging enough. The stress it has caused through the possibility they will take place and the leverage gained from arguing against those opposing it as 'the enemy within'


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> ERG group have just said they would back who ever the leader is and unite under them?


Mogg said he wouldn't serve in Sunak's cabinet before Truss won


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Have they?


Just held a press conference


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

I'm not sure that even thatcher would have had mogg or dorries in her cabinet.


----------



## maomao (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> ERG group have just said they would back who ever the leader is and unite under them?


They're hardly likely to give a press conference saying they plan to keep fucking shit up.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I'm not sure that even thatcher would have had mogg or dorries in her cabinet.


I don't think she would have most of the ones currently in the cabinet


----------



## maomao (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I'm not sure that even thatcher would have had mogg or dorries in her cabinet.


Thatcher did have Rees-Mogg in her cabinet.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> Thatcher did have Rees-Mogg in her cabinet.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

Blimey according to sky news Sunak has got 192 MPs backing him


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> Thatcher did have Rees-Mogg in her cabinet.



No she didn't, he stood for the first time at the 1997 GE, and didn't win a seat until 2010.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Blimey according to sky news Sunak has got 192 MPs backing him


A case of rats joining the floating shit.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Mogg said he wouldn't serve in Sunak's cabinet before Truss won


He wasn't going to serve in Truss' cabinet either 🤣


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> ERG group have just said they would back who ever the leader is and unite under them?


A sulky , pointless press conference.


----------



## strung out (Oct 24, 2022)

.


----------



## maomao (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


>


I thought his dad was an MP. I seem to have filed all double-barrelled twits in the same part of my brain and confused him with Selwyn-Gummer.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

brogdale said:


> 51.9% Sunak  : 48.1% Dormant would be great


No we want mp's 90% for sunak in the "indicative vote" then members 90% for Mordaunt to cause max tory chaos


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I'm not sure that even thatcher would have had mogg or dorries in her cabinet.


If Rishi Sunak banishes Jacob Rees Mogg to the backbenches, pending ejection from his seat at the next election, then the scales of justice on judgement day will be evenly weighted, no matter what else Sunak has done or ever will do.


----------



## xenon (Oct 24, 2022)

I thought I was a couple of years older than Rees-Mogg. Just checked, he's several years older than me.

This pleases me for some reason.


----------



## bimble (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> If anything, Patel spent so much energy tilting at windmills (the Rwanda thing is horrible, but no-one has been sent there) that she did dless actual damage than Javid or May. As a rule of thumb, competent Tories are a lot scarier than incompetent loons (not suggesting May was competent though).


Idk. One of Patel’s legacies is pushing through the law that gives massively increased power to whoever is home sec next, to criminalise anyone attending a protest they don’t like the sound of amongst other things. That’s not a windmill.
In general I’m just not into the old refrain of  ‘they’re all the same all as bad as eachother  ’, feels complacent and kind of naïve.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

xenon said:


> I thought I was a couple of years older than Rees-Mogg. Just checked, he's several years older than me.
> 
> This pleases me for some reason.


Truss was the first pm younger than me and sunak is even younger


----------



## spitfire (Oct 24, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Truss was the first pm younger than me and sunak is even younger



Fuuuuuck. Me too.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

Surely if she's going to pull out, she'll do it before the announcement at 2pm?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Nah, he _really _wanted the job back.
> 
> Whether he would want it after a defeat in 2024, I don't know.  Part of him, the egotistical bit - which is the only bit there is - would want a triumphal return, being summoned from the wilderness and all that. But whether he'd want 5 years hard slog as leader of the opposition, is another thing entirely.


he can have five years hard slog whenever he wants, either on the south atlantic friendship bridge or the drainage of falkland sound.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Surely if she's going to pull out, she'll do it before the announcement at 2pm?



Depends how close she is i guess.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Surely if she's going to pull out, she'll do it before the announcement at 2pm?



i thought everyone knew that having leadsom as your campaign manager is a sure-fire way to lose.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> Idk. One of Patel’s legacies is pushing through the law that gives massively increased power to whoever is home sec next, to criminalise anyone attending a protest they don’t like the sound of amongst other things. That’s not a windmill.
> In general I’m just not into the old refrain of  ‘they’re all the same all as bad as eachother  ’, feels complacent and kind of naïve.


And with the exception of Rwanda (which I would guess the Tories will now quietly drop anyway), Starmer this morning committed to the tories' immigration policy more or less unchanged.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And with the exception of Rwanda (which I would guess the Tories will now quietly drop anyway), Starmer this morning committed to the tories' immigration policy more or less unchanged.



and longer prison sentences for protestors


----------



## not a trot (Oct 24, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Truss was the first pm younger than me and sunak is even younger



There was a time that all PMs were older than me. Never see those days again.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> Your wrong in thinking these people are any worse than the rest of the Tories (or most of the Labour party for that matter).



Spot on. We’re about to see the richest man ever to sit as an MP become PM. Then he and his multi millionaire chancellor will announce a package of spending cuts, attacks on the organised working class and poor and the restoration of a Treasury orthodoxy that has reigned for 45 years.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> and longer prison sentences for protestors


The tories are unpopular, what should we do? I know, let's commit to being exactly like the tories.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 24, 2022)

not a trot said:


> There was a time that all PMs were older than me. Never see those days again.


I’ve probably reached the point where the pm being younger than me is probably a good thing.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 24, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Surely if she's going to pull out, she'll do it before the announcement at 2pm?



Like any if them have any dignity left at this point.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> I thought his dad was an MP. I seem to have filed all double-barrelled twits in the same part of my brain and confused him with Selwyn-Gummer.


Editor of the Telegraph from memory.
Edit.. Times.


----------



## elbows (Oct 24, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

One of Mourdants backers on Sky news still saying she has the numbers


----------



## belboid (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Editor of the Telegraph from memory.


Times.  My FiL used to fix his car (as part of his job, not as a favour)


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

belboid said:


> Times.  My FiL used to fix his car (as part of his job, not as a favour)


... brake cable.


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 24, 2022)

How soon will we hear the results of the nominations, following the imminent 2pm deadline?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> One of Mourdants backers on Sky news still saying she has the numbers


She's running out of time to withdraw and get a tob job.

Anyway  I'd love to see johnson's face if she did get through and the loonocracy of the membership voted her in.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> How soon will we hear the results of the nominations, following the imminent 2pm deadline?


A few minutes left too go


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

Mordaunt has dropped out.

Breaking news on Sky.


----------



## elbows (Oct 24, 2022)

Some reports suggest she didnt reach 100 and has withdrawn. Whether this is true I cannot quite say yet.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 24, 2022)

She's bailed; it's Richie


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> A few minutes left too go


Ok, they announce at 2pm then? Not count at 2pm and announce some time later?


----------



## Sue (Oct 24, 2022)

R4 reporting she's just conceded so Sunak it is.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

Coronation


----------



## elbows (Oct 24, 2022)

Ah yes it is true.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

Oh dear the members are not going to be happy


----------



## magneze (Oct 24, 2022)

Or anyone else really.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 24, 2022)




----------



## killer b (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Oh dear the members are not going to be happy


there's majority support in the membership for the MPs sorting it out among themselves tbf


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

No numbers on nominations, just that Sunak has won.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

So does truss resign as PM today


----------



## Supine (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Oh dear the members are not going to be happy



Every cloud…


----------



## killer b (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> So does truss resign as PM today


she's clearing her desk as we speak with a security guard stood at her shoulder


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Oh dear the members are not going to be happy


Sunakered, etc.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 24, 2022)

Take a drink every time Cleverly says "So, look...".


----------



## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Hang on. He's not PM yet. 

First, he has to get down on bended knee to our other unelected leader, King Charles, to ask permission to be PM. I love democracy.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 24, 2022)

killer b said:


> she's clearing her desk as we speak with a security guard stood at her shoulder



Gotta make sure she's not stealing the silver...




...or the wallpaper


----------



## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Hang on. He's not PM yet.
> 
> First, he has to get down on bended knee to our other unelected leader, King Charles, to ask permission to be PM. I love democracy.


Doesn't truss the queenslayer need to visit chucky first?


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 24, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Doesn't truss the queenslayer need to visit chucky first?


Try for two eh?


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 24, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Doesn't truss the queenslayer need to visit chucky first?


That’ll be Charlie dead from covid within the week then.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 24, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Doesn't truss the queenslayer need to visit chucky first?



Hopefully. "You again, dear oh dear..."


----------



## maomao (Oct 24, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Doesn't truss the queenslayer need to visit chucky first?


It seemed to be implied that she tendered her resignation by telephone when it happened.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> It seemed to be implied that she tendered her resignation by telephone when it happened.


Chukky's taking no chances then


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Doesn't truss the queenslayer need to visit chucky first?


No one can be that unlucky


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 24, 2022)

Headbanger Twitter has just exploded


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Coronation


Mordor Chicken.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Headbanger Twitter has just exploded


I'm sure it is a glorious rage - are they all off to join Reform ? Demanding a General Election? (which didn't seem that urgent 48 hours ago)


----------



## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Headbanger Twitter has just exploded


I just had a quick look at the comments on the gb news fb page and they are not a happy bunch


----------



## kabbes (Oct 24, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Headbanger Twitter has just exploded


Go on, link us some examples


----------



## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> I'm sure it is a glorious rage - are they all off to join Reform ? Demanding a General Election? (which didn't seem that urgent 48 hours ago)


Hope they do vote "refuk" and split the right wing vote


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

moochedit said:


> I just had a quick look at the comments on the gb news fb page and they are not a happy bunch


neither of them are ever happy


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

killer b said:


> there's majority support in the membership for the MPs sorting it out among themselves tbf


Yes, that was quite something: 

 'Are you too stupid to vote on this?'
- Yes.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

Oh God Micheal Fabricant is now on Sky news and is disappointed that the contest did not go the membership


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 24, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Oh God Micheal Fabricant is now on Sky news and is disappointed that the contest did not go the membership



Sky are obsessed with Fabricant. He's such a tool. They must have him on a retainer or something as he seems to show up at least twice a day.


----------



## pesh (Oct 24, 2022)

Sadness in his eyes?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 24, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sky are obsessed with Fabricant. They must have him on a retainer or something. He seems to show up at least twice a day.


He is getting a bit narky atm


----------



## pesh (Oct 24, 2022)

Getting votehappy probably. 
Needs to be dealt with immediately.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

To be honest, the ultras and loons in the parliamentary party will probably go a bit quiet now.  Yeah, I know they never really go quiet, but they've had bullish bexiting with boris, a month of turbulent trussing and now they will have to accept they are back with old style orthodoxy and hating the poor*.  They've had their chance and even their loonish energy must run out at some point. I suspect sunak will have it relatively easy with the parliamentary party and, to be honest, the loons in the constituency associations don't matter.

Sunak's more obvious problem is they have a reputation for economic madness now, which means that all the mortgage rises and people not being able to eat or heat will add to this narrative.  Even a month ago I'd have given sunak a 50/50 chance if he'd got in then, but truss has fucked it up for all of them.

* which never went away of course.


----------



## Supine (Oct 24, 2022)

Well, that was this months leadership election done and dusted. See you back here soon for the next one.


----------



## Numbers (Oct 24, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sky are obsessed with Fabricant. He's such a tool. They must have him on a retainer or something as he seems to show up at least twice a day.


He is isn't he, looks like a tool, sounds like a tool.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

Diversity pictured in the tory party.  The front rank have tens of milliions, the back row a measly £1,000,000 - £9,999,999).









						Rishi Sunak to be UK’s next prime minister after winning Tory leadership race as Penny Mordaunt drops out of race – live
					

Penny Mordaunt says ‘colleagues feel we need certainty today’ as she drops out of race, leaving Rishi Sunak as winner of Tory leadership race




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 24, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Go on, link us some examples


Just go look, it’s not hard to find. Plenty of chopped up membership cards 😂


----------



## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

Truss tweets her congratulations on sunak being "appointed" as leader


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

Supine said:


> Well, that was this months leadership election done and dusted. See you back here soon for the next one.


How many til Christmas ?


----------



## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just go look, it’s not hard to find. Plenty of chopped up membership cards 😂


Is it the kipper-y wing that are leaving, now that the remainer cabal have taken over ?


----------



## ska invita (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> A r/w fucker has just become prime minister of Italy on the back of a platform that centres on Christianity and Christian identity, but I don't think we're near that kind of place here tbh. And a secular Hindu is hard to turn into a threat.


The white "ethnonationalists" will be all over this same way they are with London mayor Sadiq Khan


----------



## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Truss tweets her congratulations on sunak being "appointed" as leader



Well that was more than she managed on her own 'appointment' when as I recall she completely failed to shake his hand despite him sitting right next to her as is custom before taking the stage to make her electrifying acceptance speech.

Sadly, the Tories have finally got there. To a competent and electable leader. Mixed blessings here. Can he pull it back in time? His reshuffle will be very interesting. Whether he turfs out all Truss acolytes as she did Sunak's. Coffey. Please Rishi, please. No more of that please.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Is it the kipper-y wing that are leaving, now that the remainer cabal have taken over ?


Kippers, headbangers, racists, the usual mix.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

ska invita said:


> The white "ethnonationalists" will be all over this same way they are with London mayor Sadiq Khan


How successful have they been, though? I don't think I'm being complacent in thinking that the UK is a long way from having a successful  political movement based on ethnonationalism. It's fringe.


----------



## Ming (Oct 24, 2022)

View attachment b505b44b-9e65-48cf-9c03-eb679b4fc29a.mp4


----------



## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Markets responding predictably well









						Financial markets welcome news Rishi Sunak will be next PM
					

The markets will see Mr Sunak, who previously worked in finance and was chancellor under Mr Johnson, as a safer and more cautious pair of hands than his predecessor Liz Truss.




					news.sky.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Markets responding predictably well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you won't like it when your puerile post is held up for others to ridicule when 'the markets' reach a more considered opinion of sunak's suitability


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 24, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Kippers, headbangers, racists, the usual mix.


Full blown 'WEF' and 'NWO' conspiraloonery from some coz 'their man hasnt been re-instated'.... mental.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> you won't like it when your puerile post is held up for others to ridicule when 'the markets' reach a more considered opinion of sunak's suitability



Well, no. I don't think you understand how 'the markets' work. Do you work in finance?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well, no. I don't think you understand how 'the markets' work. Do you work in finance?


you should have stopped after 'i don't think'


----------



## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Interest rates still set to go up to insane levels. But nowhere near as nuts. Be interesting to see how Moody's react at their next review.



> Also on Monday, it was reported that a *future rise in interest rates will be lower than previously forecast*, with markets now expecting the *Bank of England *to set rates at slightly less than 5%, lower than the 6% expected in the weeks following Liz Truss's mini-budget.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> you should have stopped after 'i don't think'



Can you answer my question?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well, no. I don't think you understand how 'the markets' work. Do you work in finance?


of course i don't work in finance. but i do know that how 'the markets' bobbled about today will be scant fucking comfort for sunak when in the coming weeks or months they react to his inadequate policies around things like energy, investment, taxation, the climate crisis etc. that's what i mean by a more considered conclusion rather than how they act on the day of his appointment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Can you answer my question?


yes, yes i can


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 24, 2022)




----------



## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> of course i don't work in finance. but i do know that how 'the markets' bobbled about today will be scant fucking comfort for sunak when in the coming weeks or months they react to his inadequate policies around things like energy, investment, taxation, the climate crisis etc. that's what i mean by a more considered conclusion rather than how they act on the day of his appointment.



I sit metres away from someone whose 'considered conclusion' was immediate. And he's a seriously big hitter with decades of experience in corporate finance and who knows his shit. People will have made a shitload of money shorting in the last couple of weeks, which is of course disgusting but generally Sunak's election will benefit us compared to the death spiral we were in. Sorry, but that's the truth.


----------



## strung out (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I sit metres away from someone whose 'considered conclusion' was immediate. And he's a seriously big hitter with decades of experience in corporate finance and who knows his shit. People will have made a shitload of money shorting in the last couple of weeks, which is of course disgusting but generally Sunak's election will benefit us compared to the death spiral we were in. Sorry, but that's the truth.


We get it, you know loads of rich Tories, stop going on about it.


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## stethoscope (Oct 24, 2022)

Can't wait for 'Sunak's election to benefit us'.


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## PR1Berske (Oct 24, 2022)

ska invita said:


> The white "ethnonationalists" will be all over this same way they are with London mayor Sadiq Khan


I've told this tale before, I'll be quick. I was on a train which took on scores and scores of Millwall fans. They soon as joined in a chorus of horrendous racism, with "Sadiq is no Mayor of mine" or similar getting the biggest cheer. It was _horrendous_ to be in the middle of it all. You could feel the violent hatred, every syllable sharp with violence. 

They're a minority view, and within the current Conservatives they won't count many in number, though all the same their attitude will be felt and heard.


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## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

strung out said:


> We get it, you know loads of rich Tories, stop going on about it.



I work for them. I don't know them. And don't want to know them. I'm not going on about it, but in the interests of balance I don't see why I can't offer my insight into how this was taken by them. It was very very welcomed.


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## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

stethoscope said:


> Can't wait for 'Sunak's election to benefit us'.



Your interest rates for starters. And hopefully the reinstatement of Sunak's plan for social care. Cancelled by Truss/Kwarteng.



> The Health and Social Care Levy will no longer go ahead. From 6 November 2022, the temporary 1.25 percentage point increase in National Insurance rates is being reversed for the rest of the financial year. The introduction of a separate Health and Social Care Levy tax in April 2023 has been cancelled.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I sit metres away from someone who's 'considered conclusion' was immediate. And he's a seriously big hitter who knows his shit. People will have made a shitload of money shorting in the last couple of weeks, which is of course disgusting but generally Sunak's election will benefit us compared to the death spiral we were in. Sorry, but that's the truth.


i'll let you into a little secret, people working in finance don't have any special insights, they're not in any way more intelligent or better educated or better informed, in many ways they know less about things than they think they do which is why it's so utterly terrifying that they have such a vast influence on what happens to the rest of us. sunak's election will in all likelihood make things much much worse for us. let's see what he does about the environment. what he does about fuel bills. what he does about public sector investment, little things like the nhs and education. we're still in the death spiral we were in and no warm words from sunak now are going to heat homes this winter.


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## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i'll let you into a little secret, people working in finance don't have any special insights, they're not in any way more intelligent or better educated or better informed, in many ways they know less about things than they think they do which is why it's so utterly terrifying that they have such a vast influence on what happens to the rest of us. sunak's election will in all likelihood make things much much worse for us. let's see what he does about the environment. what he does about fuel bills. what he does about public sector investment, little things like the nhs and education. we're still in the death spiral we were in and no warm words from sunak now are going to heat homes this winter.



Is it better than Truss or Johnson? I mean, I know it's a low bar.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Is it better than Truss or Johnson? I mean, I know it's a low bar.


is he better than truss or johnson? no, i don't think he is.


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## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> is he better than truss or johnson? no, i don't think he is.



Well let's see. I'm a born optimist. My gut feeling is that he's much better, in every sense than both. 

Only two more years to go anyway. Truss is thick. Johnson lazy. At least Sunak is neither of those two things.


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## Sue (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well that was more than she managed on her own 'appointment' when a*s I recall she completely failed to shake his hand* despite him sitting right next to her as is custom before taking the stage to make her electrifying acceptance speech.


Who cares?


Petcha said:


> Sadly, the Tories have finally got there. To a competent and electable leader. Mixed blessings here. Can he pull it back in time? His reshuffle will be very interesting. Whether he turfs out all Truss acolytes as she did Sunak's. Coffey. Please Rishi, please. No more of that please.


Sadly? Really?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well let's see. I'm a born optimist. My gut feeling is that he's much better, in every sense than both.
> 
> Only two more years to go anyway. Truss is thick. Johnson lazy. At least Sunak is neither of those two things.


when it comes to evil shits in charge i'll take thick and lazy any day of the week against someone who thinks they know what they're up to and has the energy to bugger things up to a degree truss and johnson could only dream of


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## Sue (Oct 24, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Full support . 🗡️


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## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Sue said:


> Who cares?
> 
> Sadly? Really?



Yes. He could potentially win the next GE. And I'm sure none of us want that. I think you'll see that massive lead Labour currently hold, slide. Sorry for my pragmatism.


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## Smangus (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well let's see. I'm a born optimist. My gut feeling is that he's much better, in every sense than both.
> 
> Only two more years to go anyway. Truss is thick. Johnson lazy. At least Sunak is neither of those two things.



Oh I don't know, can't fill his car up, doesn't know how to pay with a debit card. He seems pretty thick where I'm standing.


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## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> when it comes to evil shits in charge i'll take thick and lazy any day of the week against someone who thinks they know what they're up to and has the energy to bugger things up to a degree truss and johnson could only dream of



Let's see. We don't really have a choice. It really can't be worse though than Truss/Kwarteng. At least give me that.


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## Sue (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> *I work for them*. I don't know them. And don't want to know them. I'm not going on about it, but in the interests of balance I don't see why I can't offer my insight into how this was taken by them. It was very very welcomed.


Wait, what? How come you've never mentioned this before???


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## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

Sue said:


> Wait, what? How come you've never mentioned this before???


And also, why???


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## Sue (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Yes. He could potentially win the next GE. And I'm sure none of us want that. I think you'll see that massive lead Labour currently hold, slide. Sorry for my pragmatism.


Oh, my 'sadly 'was more about your Sunak fanboying...


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## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> And also, why???



I don't work for the Tories. I work for an agency closely connected to them. And as to why, I've explained before - I was on universal credit during lockdown after suffering a severe injury, this job came up and I took it to pay the rent and my son's childcare. I will leave as soon as I can, ok??


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## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

Sue said:


> Oh, my 'sadly 'was more about your Sunak fanboying...



I think you're Liz Truss in disguise. The intellect is certainly comparable anyway.


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## strung out (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I work for them. I don't know them. And don't want to know them. I'm not going on about it, but in the interests of balance I don't see why I can't offer my insight into how this was taken by them. It was very very welcomed.


So rich tories think Sunak will benefit them? Fuck me, who could have guessed?


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## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I don't work for the Tories. I work for an agency closely connected to them. And as to why, I've explained before - I was on universal credit during lockdown after suffering a severe injury, this job came up and I took it to pay the rent and my son's childcare. I will leave as soon as I can, ok??


Ah. Politics aside, I'm sorry to hear about the shit you've gone through.


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## TopCat (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I think you're Liz Truss in disguise. The intellect is certainly comparable anyway.


Miaow


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 24, 2022)

Sue said:


> Full support . 🗡️



Liz Truss has proved that the only knife she can attempt to drive into anyone's back is an overripe banana


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## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Let's see. We don't really have a choice. It really can't be worse though than Truss/Kwarteng. At least give me that.


Oh it can be, and it will


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## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Ah. Politics aside, I'm sorry to hear about the shit you've gone through.


That shows a good spirit


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## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

stethoscope said:


> Full blown 'WEF' and 'NWO' conspiraloonery from some coz 'their man hasnt been re-instated'.... mental.


they were all Boris 2.0 a few days ago


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## belboid (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well let's see. *I'm a born optimist*. My gut feeling is that he's much better, in every sense than both.
> 
> Only* two more years* to go anyway. Truss is thick. Johnson lazy. At least Sunak is neither of those two things.


The two bolded points contradict each other


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## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> they were all Boris 2.0 a few days ago


What will they be next week


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## ska invita (Oct 24, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> How successful have they been, though? I don't think I'm being complacent in thinking that the UK is a long way from having a successful  political movement based on ethnonationalism. It's fringe.


Bigger outside UK, on the continent and the USA, great replacement theory etc


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## Numbers (Oct 24, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Miaow


I’m wondering how to express this spelling, I’m more a meow kind of man.


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## belboid (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Your interest rates for starters. And hopefully the reinstatement of Sunak's plan for social care. Cancelled by Truss/Kwarteng.


His social care plan was shit.  Insufficient and wholly paid for by todays workers (rather than the state who those in need of care very probably paid into). Having a plan maybe better than not having one, a la the six week wonders, but not much.  And it sure don’t make it good.


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## steeplejack (Oct 24, 2022)

ha ha ha. Matt Hancock brutally dissed.

I mean look at the nick of them. The guys on either side of the blue twitter "play" circle look like they've just come sixth and seventh in Letchworth Conservative Associations' "top 10 Hertfordshire Roger Moore impersonators" contest. "Bim Afolami" looks like he's been wound up a little bit more than his clockwork mechanism can take. So much fake enthusiasm for a guy who ten days ago was an unperson destined for a long holiday in the US, before trying to sell the NHS off to them.


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## Wilf (Oct 24, 2022)

The other thing is, this has been a leadership contest where the winner hasn't uttered a single word.  In fact he's been pretty much silent since he lost last time.  Doesn't make much difference to the wider political economy of the situation, but still a weird way to run a ship (of fools).


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## bluescreen (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Is it the kipper-y wing that are leaving, now that the remainer cabal have taken over ?


Sunak is a Brexiter, always has been.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 24, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Sunak is a Brexiter, always has been.


Try telling that to the party faithful


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## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Sunak is a Brexiter, always has been.


I know , but the narrative amongst the Boris lot is that he's a traitor , a snake , who took out their messiah as part of a diabolical remainer cabal . I'm not saying they make any sense 🤣


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## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> The other thing is, this has been a leadership contest where the winner hasn't uttered a single word.  In fact he's been pretty much silent since he lost last time.  Doesn't make much difference to the wider political economy of the situation, but still a weird way to run a ship (of fools).


None of the supposed 3 candidates said anything, you're right , very weird.


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## Lurdan (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> The other thing is, this has been a leadership contest where the winner hasn't uttered a single word.  In fact he's been pretty much silent since he lost last time.  Doesn't make much difference to the wider political economy of the situation, but still a weird way to run a ship (of fools).


Said plenty during the previous leadership contest. Telegraph did a summary today :
9 key challenges facing Rishi Sunak - including net zero, tax and the cost of living (archived)

Of course, since he's a lying weasel politician, and he's "facing a new situation", I wouldn't assume all or any of that still holds.


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## Cid (Oct 24, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> ha ha ha. Matt Hancock brutally dissed.
> 
> I mean look at the nick of them. The guys on either side of the blue twitter "play" circle look like they've just come sixth and seventh in Letchworth Conservative Associations' "top 10 Hertfordshire Roger Moore impersonators" contest. "Bim Afolami" looks like he's been wound up a little bit more than his clockwork mechanism can take. So much fake enthusiasm for a guy who ten days ago was an unperson destined for a long holiday in the US, before trying to sell the NHS off to them.




The way his face drops 10-13 seconds...


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## Sue (Oct 24, 2022)

Cid said:


> The way his face drops 10-13 seconds...


The sadness in his eyes.


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## Cid (Oct 24, 2022)

Needs slowing and giffing, but dunno how you go about getting video off twitter.


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## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

Sue said:


> The sadness in his eyes.


That sadness makes me happy


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## Yossarian (Oct 24, 2022)

Cid said:


> The way his face drops 10-13 seconds...


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## belboid (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> I know , but the narrative amongst the Boris lot is that he's a traitor , a snake , who took out their messiah as part of a diabolical remainer cabal . I'm not saying they make any sense 🤣


And he’s a Socialist!


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## marty21 (Oct 24, 2022)

belboid said:


> And he’s a Socialist!


The monster !


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## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I don't work for the Tories. I work for an agency closely connected to them. And as to why, I've explained before - I was on universal credit during lockdown after suffering a severe injury, this job came up and I took it to pay the rent and my son's childcare. I will leave as soon as I can, ok??


Is this the same job you had in August where you said it was the best, most enjoyable job you'd ever had with 95% good people? Seems a pity to quit something you're so happy with


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## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

marty21 said:


> None of the supposed 3 candidates said anything, you're right , very weird.


Nothing said publicly but i'm sure they spoke to mp's.


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## Weller (Oct 24, 2022)

Cid said:


> Needs slowing and giffing, but dunno how you go about getting video off twitter.


This may work although difficult to see his full no shame and then utter heart breaking sadness in a 10 frames per second gif  
I prefer it in full HD  repeating on a 50" Screen


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## Cerv (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> The other thing is, this has been a leadership contest where the winner hasn't uttered a single word.  In fact he's been pretty much silent since he lost last time.  Doesn't make much difference to the wider political economy of the situation, but still a weird way to run a ship (of fools).



hasn't publicly said a word. 
but no doubt said a lot since Thursday in private to Conservative MPs. i.e. the only people who had a vote in the matter.


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 24, 2022)

Wilf said:


> The other thing is, this has been a leadership contest where the winner hasn't uttered a single word.  In fact he's been pretty much silent since he lost last time.  Doesn't make much difference to the wider political economy of the situation, but still a weird way to run a ship (of fools).




What a vast improvement over the last election where hours of air time was spent listening to both vapid fools who we still didn’t vote for


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## The39thStep (Oct 24, 2022)

I like this


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## cupid_stunt (Oct 25, 2022)

I saw that clown Fabricant being interviewed, and he was moaning about the membership not getting a vote, and saying coronations don't deliver good leaders, just look how May worked out.

And, the interviewer let him get away with it, totally missing the clearly obvious reply of, 'well she lasted longer than Truss, have you forgotten she was chosen by the membership?'

🤷‍♂️


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## maomao (Oct 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> Idk. One of Patel’s legacies is pushing through the law that gives massively increased power to whoever is home sec next, to criminalise anyone attending a protest they don’t like the sound of amongst other things. That’s not a windmill.
> In general I’m just not into the old refrain of  ‘they’re all the same all as bad as eachother  ’, feels complacent and kind of naïve.


Well Braverman's Home Sec now so thank god the grown-ups are in charge eh?


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## Cerv (Oct 25, 2022)

maomao said:


> Well Braverman's Home Sec now so thank god the grown-ups are in charge eh?


so Shapps had the job less than a week? do you think the office porters even got around to packing Braverman's stuff and unpacking his?


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## gentlegreen (Oct 25, 2022)

Is Braverman the dog whistle for the swivel-eyed ?
Spitting ridiculous hateful bile that will never get acted upon ?


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