# Ray Winstone  threatens to quit country because 'Britain is being raped by high taxes'



## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

Fuck off then, you slaaaag. Hope the online betting ads paid nicely for you.

Here's a thought: maybe it's because your income is so fucking sky high that you're getting a large tax bill?


> In an interview with talkSPORT radio last night the Sexy Beast star was similiarily uncompromsing telling an interviewer he was ready to quit Britain because the country was 'being raped' by high taxes.
> 
> The 56-year-old told the show: "I can see myself leaving. I love this country but I’ve had enough."
> 
> ...


Muppet.


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## weepiper (Mar 10, 2013)

'raped'.  Dickwad


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## Poot (Mar 10, 2013)

Ta ta, then.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

Did anyone bother reading the whole article?



> The Sweeney, told the interviewer: "There are more holes in the roads than a tennis racket, we can’t build hospitals and fire stations are closing."



Which seems fair enough to me unless I'm missing something. 

He's complaining that although we're taxed we're getting nothing back, so not quite like the removed from context quote in the op.


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## Poot (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Did anyone bother reading the whole article?
> 
> 
> 
> Which seems fair enough to me unless I'm missing something.


Yes, we should pay for that shit to be fixed. By collecting some sort of tax or something. Oh, wait...


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

Poot said:
			
		

> Yes, we should pay for that shit to be fixed. By collecting some sort of tax or something. Oh, wait...



He isn't complaining about paying tax. He's complaining about people not being given anything back from their taxes like, you know, public services. What a fucking meanie he is.


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

And that is exactly like rape, see.


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Did anyone bother reading the whole article?


Yes. And he still comes off as a greedy, selfish cunt. Him leaving the country puts even less money in the pot to get things fixed, but he's OK because he's rich enough to have the choice.


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> He isn't complaining about paying tax.


"Raped"?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:
			
		

> Yes. And he still comes off as a greedy, selfish cunt. Him leaving the country puts even less money in the pot to get things fixed.



But its down to mismanagement of funds. I'm more pissed with the government than people who want to fuck off because of their policies.


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## Ax^ (Mar 10, 2013)

how much did he earn last year


and just wtf does he expect back from it


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:
			
		

> "Raped"?



Mismanagement.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

Ax^ said:
			
		

> how much did he earn last year
> 
> and just wtf does he expect back from it



I think he's talking about everyone, not just himself. So a celeb comes out who isnt a selfish tory and they're a cunt aswell.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 10, 2013)

Where's his fackin tool


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Mismanagement.


"No, I didn't rape her m'lud. I just mismanaged her."


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## machine cat (Mar 10, 2013)

What facking tool?

And why does dot com's post say 01/01/1970?


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## The Boy (Mar 10, 2013)

what fackin tool?

edit:  I snoozed.  I losed.


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

machine cat said:


> What facking tool?
> 
> And why does dot com's post say 01/01/1970?


It doesn't but I suspect your PC's battery is on the blink.


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## Ax^ (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I think he's talking about everyone, not just himself. So a celeb comes out who isnt a selfish tory and they're a cunt aswell.


 
if he had  not already been linked to a film production company that was being use as a tax avoidance scheme i'd take what he to say with less cynicism


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:
			
		

> "No, I didn't rape her m'lud. I just mismanaged her."



Oh is that what the argument is about?

Fair dos. Instead of supporting someone who has come out to criticise the coalition we'll concentrate on the language they used. You crack on with that one then.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 10, 2013)

I thought he already lived in marbella along with all the other gangsters from the 70s


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Oh is that what the argument is about?
> 
> Fair dos. Instead of supporting someone who has come out to criticise the coalition we'll concentrate on the language they used. You crack on with that one then.


Gosh! He's come out to criticise the coalition, has he? I'm sure his words will hold lots of sway when he's trotting them out from the sunny climes of his tax exile.


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## Ax^ (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Oh is that what the argument is about?
> 
> Fair dos. Instead of supporting someone who has come out to criticise the coalition we'll concentrate on the language they used. You crack on with that one then.


 
he's been saying this shite for years

he was saying the country had gone to the dogs in 2008


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## machine cat (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:


> It doesn't but I suspect your PC's battery is on the blink.


I'm on my phone, but it's changed now


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:
			
		

> "Raped"?



We're all being fucked violently by the Govt. 

Better?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:
			
		

> Gosh! He's come out to criticise the coalition, has he? I'm sure his words will hold lots of sway when he's trotting them out from the sunny climes of his tax exile.



So you'd rather he supported them? Strange stance but each to their own. And why would he want to move to a tax haven that has less public services?


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> So you'd rather he supported them? Strange stance but each to their own.


I don't give a flying fuck who Winstone votes for because it makes no fucking difference. Rich people swanning off into tax exile does make a difference though.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 10, 2013)

In the article you link to, he doesn't say the country is being raped by high taxes. He says that the country is being raped. The 'by high taxes' bit was added by the journalist. And he's talking about what 'we' are getting, so at least he is making a wider point about what everyone gets.

I suspect he might be more than a little pissed off by the spin being put on his words.

As for having a go at him for using the word 'raped', ffs get a grip. He's using the word in a way that it's long been used - for the taking away of something by force.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:
			
		

> I don't give a flying fuck who Winstone votes for because it makes no fucking difference. Rich people swanning off into tax exile does make a difference though.



Can you point to where in the article he states his wish to be a tax exile?


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## DotCommunist (Mar 10, 2013)

Ax^ said:


> he's been saying this shite for years
> 
> he was saying the country had gone to the dogs in 2008


 

did he also use that trustiest words in the old school cockney lexicon 'diabolical liberties'


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Can you point to where in the article he states his wish to be a tax exile?


The bit where he says, "I can see myself leaving."


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## JimW (Mar 10, 2013)

machine cat said:


> What facking tool?
> 
> And why does dot com's post say 01/01/1970?


It's a Sweeny-themed post, put a kipper tie on while you read it. 
Maybe Ray can bunk up with Gerard Depardieu for a bit in luvvie tax exile?


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> In the article you link to, he doesn't say the country is being raped by high taxes. He says that the country is being raped. The 'by high taxes' bit was added by the journalist. And he's talking about what 'we' are getting, so at least he is making a wider point about what everyone gets.
> 
> I suspect he might be more than a little pissed off by the spin being put on his words.
> 
> As for having a go at him for using the word 'raped', ffs get a grip. He's using the word in a way that it's long been used - for the taking away of something by force.


Do you view your taxes as being raped?


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> As for having a go at him for using the word 'raped', ffs get a grip. He's using the word in a way that it's long been used - for the taking away of something by force.


And women have long been treated as property. Newsflash: we object. Outdated language is forgiveable; justifying it is not.

And Winstone is not standing up to the government, he's threatening to leave the country, like pathetic narcissists everywhere.


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## thriller (Mar 10, 2013)

Well he has a point. We are taxed to death here. £373 a month comes out my wages in taxes. He is 100% right about the politicians. Don't trust any of these bastards.


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## Ax^ (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Do you view your taxes as being raped?


 
well tis not like hmrc scream "surprise" first


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> And women have long been treated as property. Newsflash: we object. Outdated language is forgiveable; justifying it is not..


Come off it. If he'd said the country was being fucked up the arse, would you be complaining. Why not use the word rape for what's being done? Rape is a terrible, horrible thing. That's the whole point of using the word, no?


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## weepiper (Mar 10, 2013)

Ax^ said:


> well tis not like hmrc scream "surprise" first


 
That's not funny.


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## Miss Caphat (Mar 10, 2013)

.


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

thriller said:


> Well he has a point. We are taxed to death here.


I bet he's really struggling to survive, the poor lamb. No wonder he's thinking of leaving.  It must be awful for him.


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## Ax^ (Mar 10, 2013)

weepiper said:


> That's not funny.


 
*shrugs*


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:
			
		

> The bit where he says, "I can see myself leaving."



So he's definitely going to Monaco then?


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Come off it. If he'd said the country was being fucked up the arse, would you be complaining. Why not use the word rape for what's being done? Rape is a terrible, horrible thing. That's the whole point of using the word, no?


Yes, it is. Women being property and all, it makes sense, right?

It is a crime against the person, not a crime against property. Analogy fail.


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## thriller (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:


> I bet he's really struggling to survive, the poor lamb. No wonder he's thinking of leaving. It must be awful for him.


 
Well, if he is feeling the pinch considering the money he earns, what do you think it says about the taxes the working man has to pay? At least him saying something creates a bit of publicity.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

ymu said:
			
		

> Yes, it is. Women being property and all, it makes sense, right?
> 
> It is a crime against the person, not a crime against property. Analogy fail.



what? mismanagement of taxes is a crime against people. as is rape.


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## bi0boy (Mar 10, 2013)

Reminder of the origins and current two meanings of the word rape:

Rape noun *1* the crime of forcing a person, especially a woman, to have sexual intercourse against their will. *2* violation, despoiling or abuse. verb (*raped*, *raping*) *1* to commit rape on someone. *2* to violate or despoil, especially a country or place in wartime. *rapist* noun.
ETYMOLOGY: 14c: from Latin _rapere_ to seize and carry off.


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

thriller said:


> Well, if he is feeling the pinch considering the money he earns, what do you think it says about the taxes the working man has to pay? At least him saying something creates a bit of publicity.


You think that someone who can easily afford the taxes he owes speaking out about it will make the tax burden less on the working man?

That's not how it works.


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## junglevip (Mar 10, 2013)

What a dickhead; no loss whatsoever!


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> what? mismanagement of taxes is a crime against people. as is rape.


Rape used to be a crime against property. That is no longer the case. This is why some of us are quite sensitive to its use as an analogy for other crimes where property is taken by force.

I agree with the point you're trying to twist this into; I have argued elsewhere that the rich harm me more than all the muggers and burglars I will encounter in my lifetime. That is neither here nor there.


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## Yelkcub (Mar 10, 2013)

Can he take Danny Dyer with him?


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## 8115 (Mar 10, 2013)

There *are* holes in the roads. 

I don't care what he says though.


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## silverfish (Mar 10, 2013)

So, Ray is actually on message,

the government takes more and gives us less in return, less social, less police, fire, NHS, local services, less libraries, reduced funding for education, increased fees for education and fucks the job and housing market

Unfortunately he uses a quite inflammatory  way of describing this process

and he is basically nouveau riche therefore "an enemy" of the proles

He's on a loose loose really

What do you want him to do, stand as an MP or blow parliament up?


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## Ax^ (Mar 10, 2013)

silverfish said:


> What do you want him to do, stand as an MP or blow parliament up?


 
taking 2 spoonful of cement would be a start


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## 8115 (Mar 10, 2013)

silverfish said:


> So, Ray is actually on message,
> 
> the government takes more and gives us less in return, less social, less police, fire, NHS, local services, less libraries, reduced funding for education, increased fees for education and fucks the job and housing market
> 
> ...


 
Do they take more and give less though?  I'm not sure taxes have gone up much, and people's expectations of education etc may have gone up, ageing population costs more.  I'm not sure what you say is accurate.  It could be.


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## Miss Caphat (Mar 10, 2013)

silverfish said:


> So, Ray is actually on message,
> 
> the government takes more and gives us less in return, less social, less police, fire, NHS, local services, less libraries, reduced funding for education, increased fees for education and fucks the job and housing market
> 
> ...


 
I agree w/ your list, but also add to it the irony that he does very little in exchange for large amounts of money...just what he's accusing the government of doing.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> Yes, it is. Women being property and all, it makes sense, right?
> 
> It is a crime against the person, not a crime against property. Analogy fail.


As far as I can tell, he's talking about a crime against people, as in having their country taken from them. And the word does have a long history of use in that way.


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

8115 said:


> Do they take more and give less though? I'm not sure taxes have gone up much, and people's expectations of education etc may have gone up, ageing population costs more. I'm not sure what you say is accurate. It could be.


They're taking less from the rich (top rate of tax was 60% until the late '80s; corporation tax used to be twice as high; capital gains used to be taxed the same as earned income) and more from the poor (10% tax band abolished; privatisation of utilities led to higher charges for the poorest via prepay meters), and transferring more of it back to the rich in the form of outsourcing public sector services to profit-making companies.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 10, 2013)

silverfish said:


> So, Ray is actually on message,
> 
> the government takes more and gives us less in return, less social, less police, fire, NHS, local services, less libraries, reduced funding for education, increased fees for education and fucks the job and housing market
> 
> ...


 
Is he really "on message"? Doesn't take much interpretation to see a selfish arsehole here - He could have chosen to complain about the quality of social services and public infrastructure without comparing his tax bill to rape and threatening to leave the country. That he didn't makes it pretty damn obvious that it's the latter rather than the social services that he probably doesn't use much which is his real issue


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## silverfish (Mar 10, 2013)

8115 said:


> Do they take more and give less though? I'm not sure taxes have gone up much, and people's expectations of education etc may have gone up, ageing population costs more. I'm not sure what you say is accurate. It could be.


 
They don't even necessarily have to take more, just not use it correctly. I think you are being a tad disingenuous if your opinion ia that all is tickety boo on our fair isle


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## 8115 (Mar 10, 2013)

silverfish said:


> They don't even necessarily have to take more, just not use it correctly. I think you are being a tad disingenuous if your opinion ia that all is tickety boo on our fair isle


 
I think we agree.


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## silverfish (Mar 10, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> Is he really "on message"? Doesn't take much interpretation to see a selfish arsehole here - He could have chosen to complain about the quality of social services and public infrastructure without comparing his tax bill to rape and threatening to leave the country. That he didn't makes it pretty damn obvious that it's the latter rather than the social services that he probably doesn't use much which is his real issue


 
He's a working class actor, he doesn't have a PPE 1st from Cambridge to help him formulate his political position or how he presents his opinion


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> As far as I can tell, he's talking about a crime against people, as in having their country taken from them. And the word does have a long history of use in that way.


It's still a crime against property and not the (physical integrity of) the person.

You're relying on a long history of rape being used as an analogy for crime against property (not true; this is a much more recent phenomenon in terms of common usage) whilst ignoring that fact that for most of our history rape _was_ a crime against property, so much so that I was 22 before it became illegal for a husband to rape his wife.

Women are not your fucking property (any more) and some of us would quite like it if you could stop using language that assumes that we are.

Back onto Winstone' actual remarks, this is all I can find, is there any more out there than this?


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## May Kasahara (Mar 10, 2013)

Someone i know used to date one of his daughters. He alleges that RW called said daughter a 'shit cunt slag' over Christmas lunch one year. I couldn't possibly comment, of course, except to say that RW is a shitty actor and I hope he does fuck off, to retirement.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 10, 2013)

silverfish said:


> He's a working class actor, he doesn't have a PPE 1st from Cambridge to help him formulate his political position or how he presents his opinion


Because working-class people can't articulate opinions clearly? Because someone who's spent nearly 40 years in an industry that's about expressing and articulating can't say what they mean in an interview?


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

thriller said:


> Well, if he is feeling the pinch considering the money he earns, what do you think it says about the taxes the working man has to pay?


I imagine most 'working man' can only dream of the money, property and opportunity that Winstone enjoys.


thriller said:


> At least him saying something creates a bit of publicity.


Yes, and the message he wants to give out is that he wants to bugger off somewhere else and take his wealth with him.


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## Fez909 (Mar 10, 2013)

I haven't read the article (but neither have most people commenting it seems) so I don't know what he said or why. But if rich people are threatening to leave the country because their taxes aren't being used responsibly, then this is surely embarrassing for the government.  As far as I can tell, he hasn't complained about the amount of money he's been taxed, just that nothing gets done with it.

It could be taken two ways: If we're not getting our money's worth, then perhaps we should be paying less? Or if we're not getting our money's worth then public services need to improve.

I'd hope Winston is saying the second, but he could be using that as cover to keep a reputation while really believing the first. Maybe if I read the article I'd have a better idea.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:
			
		

> I agree w/ your list, but also add to it the irony that he does very little in exchange for large amounts of money...just what he's accusing the government of doing.



Erm, no. The Govt mismanage the public's money. If you can find an example of him doing the same then the comparison is valid.


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

May Kasahara said:


> Someone i know used to date one of his daughters. He alleges that RW called said daughter a 'shit cunt slag' over Christmas lunch one year. I couldn't possibly comment, of course, except to say that RW is a shitty actor and I hope he does fuck off, to retirement.


That, in and of itself, means nothing at all. Some families can come out with that kind of language in the heat of an argument and be right as rain five minutes later; others can do each other untold damage whilst repressing nasty words altogether.


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## bi0boy (Mar 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> It's still a crime against property and not the (physical integrity of) the person.
> 
> You're relying on a long history of rape being used as an analogy for crime against property (not true; this is a much more recent phenomenon in terms of common usage) whilst ignoring that fact that for most of our history rape _was_ a crime against property, so much so that I was 22 before it became illegal for a husband to rape his wife.
> 
> Women are not your fucking property (any more) and some of us would quite like it if you could stop using language that assumes that we are.


 
You've got this the wrong way round. Rape originally meant to steal, seize, grab and take away. It was generally applied to the assets of a country or region. Only later did it come to mean sexual violence. So now it has two meanings, to violate and plunder a place, and to force sexual intercourse upon someone. The latter meaning derived from the former. If someone uses the former meaning it in no way implies that they "assume women are property", and to suggest it does is frankly insulting.


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## silverfish (Mar 10, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> Because working-class people can't articulate opinions clearly? Because someone who's spent nearly 40 years in an industry that's about expressing and articulating can't say what they mean in an interview?


 
How about, he's just not very fucking bright or PC for that matter?  Actors express and articulate other peoples words, after they have practised them a bit, that's how it works really

Get yourself a sherry and a clairol foot spa, stop being so fucking pugnacious


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> Women are not your fucking property (any more) and some of us would quite like it if you could stop using language that assumes that we are.


I don't think that's what he's doing. It's certainly not what I'm doing. So you can fuck right off.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 10, 2013)

silverfish said:


> So, Ray is actually on message,
> 
> the government takes more and gives us less in return, less social, less police, fire, NHS, local services, less libraries, reduced funding for education, increased fees for education and fucks the job and housing market
> 
> ...


 

looser


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 10, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> I haven't read the article (but neither have most people commenting it seems) so I don't know what he said or why. But if rich people are threatening to leave the country because their taxes aren't being used responsibly, then this is surely embarrassing for the government. As far as I can tell, he hasn't complained about the amount of money he's been taxed, just that nothing gets done with it.
> 
> It could be taken two ways: If we're not getting our money's worth, then perhaps we should be paying less? Or if we're not getting our money's worth then public services need to improve.
> 
> I'd hope Winston is saying the second, but he could be using that as cover to keep a reputation while really believing the first. Maybe if I read the article I'd have a better idea.


 
I think you're being exceptionally generous there. How likely is it that an exceptionally rich person like Winstone would threaten to leave the country over the latter?


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't think that's what he's doing. It's certainly not what I'm doing. So you can fuck right off.


 
It doesn't matter what your intent is; the fact is many people find it offensive. What you choose to do about it is up to you. You chose to repeatedly argue that it cannot ever be offensive to anyone ever, and then that it cannot be offensive because you did not intend it to be offensive. So you can fuck right off (IMO, obv).


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> It doesn't matter what your intent is; the fact is many people find it offensive. What you choose to do about it is up to you. You chose to repeatedly argue that it cannot ever be offensive to anyone ever, and then that it cannot be offensive because you did not intend it to be offensive. So you can fuck right off (IMO, obv).


It does matter what the intent is, especially where a word has two distinct accepted usages. You're the one making the link to treating women as if they were men's property.


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## Fez909 (Mar 10, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> I think you're being exceptionally generous there. How likely is it that an exceptionally rich person like Winstone would threaten to leave the country over the latter?


 
It's easy to threaten stuff. I can't imagine him actually following through for that reason though.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:
			
		

> I think you're being exceptionally generous there. How likely is it that an exceptionally rich person like Winstone would threaten to leave the country over the latter?



But surely the norm is to announce these things when labour come into power (or are about to) and taxes are set to rise in order to pay for social programs and public services, if that is the sort of thing that pisses you off. Which is why I'm inclined, perhaps incorrectly, to not think he's just another Paul Daniels.


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It does matter what the intent is, especially where a word has two distinct accepted usages. You're the one making the link to treating women as if they were men's property.


The intent would matter if you hadn't proceeded to argue that it's not offensive because history.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 10, 2013)

'Are you gonna leave the fackin country, cunt? yes you are. You fucking are. Does don look like a fucking cunt is that what you're thinking? Yer leaving. You are. Yes, yes fackin yes'


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## Reno (Mar 10, 2013)

The article is so vague it can be interpreted in either way, but if you give him the benefit of a doubt then he is saying nothing controversial. I'm perfectly happy with the use of the word 'rape' in what Cameron and cunts is doing to this country and I would have happy with this term when Thatcher did it. We all know what it means in the context and don't have to work ourselves up into a self-righeous lather over a word.


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## silverfish (Mar 10, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> looser


 
good effort teach!


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## little_legs (Mar 10, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> You've got this the wrong way round. Rape originally meant to steal, seize, grab and take away. It was generally applied to the assets of a country or region. Only later did it come to mean sexual violence. So now it has two meanings, to violate and plunder a place, and to force sexual intercourse upon someone. The latter meaning derived from the former. If someone uses the former meaning it in no way implies that they "assume women are property", and to suggest it does is frankly insulting.


 
So then what did they use to call the rape of a woman before?

I am kind of interested because if you translate _rape_ into my language, it means one thing only, to forcefully have sexual intercourse with a woman/man.


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

Self-righteous lather?


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## Poot (Mar 10, 2013)

I think it's interesting. Before this thread, I thought the Vikings "raped and pillaged" meaning, literally, that they raped by forcing women to have sex. I've never heard of it used in this context. Sorry if this shows my ignorance.


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## HST (Mar 10, 2013)

has he done anything in the last 10 years?


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## sihhi (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> He isn't complaining about paying tax. He's complaining about people not being given anything back from their taxes like, you know, public services. What a fucking meanie he is.


 
Meanie is an empty term, suggesting if he was kinder people would big him up.

In the late eighties HRMC investigated his taxation behaviour and found serious irregularities, he got away with it by declaring himself bankrupt and starting over - benefit claimants aren't ever given such leeway, yet he still has the gall to complain. He fails to understand that there are dozens of unpaid and poorly paid people working on each one of his films, he basically resents anything stopping his wealth that doesn't chime with his rightist preferences preferences.

"I think we apologise too much for what we are. I'm proud to be an Englishman. Now in London you see mosques but if you went to their country you wouldn't be allowed to build a church, there would be fucking murders."

"You work your nuts off, you get to have a nice life. But the way the British tax system is, it’s like you work your nuts off and then they give you a big kick in them. It gets to the point where you start to think you can’t afford to live in your own country. Britain's gone to the dogs. Do I really want to live in this mess any more? I mean, what’s going on? What is this congestion charge? So we get our road tax and then we get taxed again? It’s nonsense. The more you work, the more they get you. It’s like you get penalised for working hard."

"And I see so many people coming into this country that we can’t cope. As far as knife crime is concerned, what’s wrong with getting tough? First offence, a warning. Second offence, five years and third offence life. I’m happy for anyone from any other country to come here if they want to work, but I’m not happy to support everyone for nothing. I don’t want anyone taking the piss. If you’ve come into our country and you commit a crime, you should be deported. End of story."

"If we’re going to have a war, what’s wrong with going to war against Bolivia? Our country has been flooded with drugs. All these kids on the streets in gangs with knives, all this lawless behaviour. Most of it is about drugs and what are we doing? Nothing. It breaks my heart to even think about leaving this country but it’s becoming more of a thought in my head. I love being British, I love England, but I hate what’s been done to it."

All Ray Winstone under the last government. I think he is "taking the piss".


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## 89 Til Infinity (Mar 10, 2013)

It's not like Winstone has made his money as a sweat shop owner. Not sure why he's getting so much hate simply for being lucky enough to have been paid well. How dare he complain that all his money is being pissed away

What obligation does he have to Britain anyway?

If I had as much money as him to have the choice I would have fucked off a long time ago.


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## Yossarian (Mar 10, 2013)

Is there any reason why anybody should give a fuck about Ray Winstone's thoughts on taxation?

I know of him as an actor who's appeared in a couple of memorable movies and a pile of forgettable ones, not sure how that makes his musings on the economy worth discussing.


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

A _useful_ rape analogy.


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## Poot (Mar 10, 2013)

89 Til Infinity said:


> It's not like Winstone has made his money as a sweat shop owner. Not sure why he's getting so much hate simply for being lucky enough to have been paid well. How dare he complain that all his money is being pissed away
> 
> What obligation does he have to Britain anyway?
> 
> If I had as much money as him to have the choice I would have fucked off a long time ago.



Well quite, but maybe he should have kept his mouth shut and fucked off, rather than claiming to be so hard done by.


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

Yossarian said:


> Is there any reason why anybody should give a fuck about Ray Winstone's thoughts on taxation?
> 
> I know of him as an actor who's appeared in a couple of memorable movies and a pile of forgettable ones, not sure how that makes his musings on the economy worth discussing.


Yes, of course. He gets a platform, along with the other rich fuckers who don't want to contribute their fair share to the economy that makes them rich. If they're the only people who ever get heard and listened to, we end up with what we have: an economy run by the rich for the rich.


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## sihhi (Mar 10, 2013)

89 Til Infinity said:


> It's not like Winstone has made his money as a sweat shop owner. Not sure why he's getting so much hate simply for being lucky enough to have been paid well. How dare he complain that all his money is being pissed away
> 
> What obligation does he have to Britain anyway?
> 
> If I had as much money as him to have the choice I would have fucked off a long time ago.


 
Few would mind him moving to a higher-tax country such as Denmark.
A lot of Danish millionaires domicile in Britain for tax purposes.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 10, 2013)

silverfish said:


> How about, he's just not very fucking bright or PC for that matter? Actors express and articulate other peoples words, after they have practised them a bit, that's how it works really
> 
> Get yourself a sherry and a clairol foot spa, stop being so fucking pugnacious


I'll have a beer in a bit, can't stand sherry...

It's not the unPC bit I'm commenting out, but the sentiment behind the words, which comes out in the way he's expressed it.


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## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2013)

ymu I wrote a short story years ago about a society where homeowners having their goods stolen being treated the same as rape victims being questioned in court after burglaries with questions like "were you drunk" etc


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> But surely the norm is to announce these things when labour come into power (or are about to) and taxes are set to rise in order to pay for social programs and public services, if that is the sort of thing that pisses you off. Which is why I'm inclined, perhaps incorrectly, to not think he's just another Paul Daniels.


I dunno, from the tone of the comments, and the thing that Sihhi posted above, he just sounds like  standard whining rich bloke, who thinks he's hard done by because he has to pay taxes.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> I dunno, from the tone of the comments, and the thing that Sihhi posted above, he just sounds like standard whining rich bloke, who thinks he's hard done by because he has to pay taxes.


 
Note: my comments were_ prior _to what sihhi posted and I don't claim to be an expert on the man; I was commenting solely on the article in the op.


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## thriller (Mar 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> You think that someone who can easily afford the taxes he owes speaking out about it will make the tax burden less on the working man?
> That's not how it works.


 
The point is no media outlet will give a shit if you or anyone else says taxes are high. At least this is getting some publicity.


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> But surely the norm is to announce these things when labour come into power (or are about to) and taxes are set to rise in order to pay for social programs and public services, if that is the sort of thing that pisses you off. Which is why I'm inclined, perhaps incorrectly, to not think he's just another Paul Daniels.


 
He's more of another Phil Daniels I'd say.....


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

thriller said:


> The point is no media outlet will give a shit if you or anyone else says taxes are high. At least this is getting some publicity.


Publicity for rich cunts who object to paying their way; none for the poor cunts who have to pay if they do not. That doesn't excuse him, it condemns him further. A decent human being would use that platform very differently.


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## editor (Mar 10, 2013)

thriller said:


> The point is no media outlet will give a shit if you or anyone else says taxes are high. At least this is getting some publicity.


It's only publicising the 'plight' of extremely wealthy celebrities and their tax bills.


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## marty21 (Mar 10, 2013)

I like Winston as an actor - but this is a fuck up - off you fuck Ray


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 10, 2013)

thriller said:


> The point is no media outlet will give a shit if you or anyone else says taxes are high. At least this is getting some publicity.


Well the papers will interpret it in the way that the Indie does, as the rich arguing they'll leave if they're over-taxed (ie. as an argument against high taxes on the rich)


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## Favelado (Mar 10, 2013)

Good news for Danny Dyer though.


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## rover07 (Mar 10, 2013)

Where does he say taxes are too high?

All he's saying is the country is badly run.

I agree.


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## ymu (Mar 10, 2013)

He has form. See sihhi's post.


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## rover07 (Mar 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> He has form. See sihhi's post.



Ah ok, he's a prick. 

Funny that he complains about gangs considering that he's made a career out of playing criminals. 

And going to war with Bolivia! Calm down, time to put him out to retirement in Spain.


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## Stanley Edwards (Mar 10, 2013)

editor said:


> It's only publicising the 'plight' of extremely wealthy celebrities and their tax bills.


 
The biggest point I read was that fire stations are closing and no hospitals are being built. I honestly didn't see anything about the rich being taxed unfairly. It read like he was referring to the system in general.


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## HST (Mar 10, 2013)

I don't hear Hugh Grant whining.


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## weltweit (Mar 10, 2013)

Well all this tax is not going to pay back the government debt because that is still rising.

As to the roads, plenty of potholes where I live!


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## May Kasahara (Mar 11, 2013)

ymu said:


> That, in and of itself, means nothing at all. Some families can come out with that kind of language in the heat of an argument and be right as rain five minutes later; others can do each other untold damage whilst repressing nasty words altogether.


 
I'm not suggesting it means anything. It has just always stuck in my mind as a really nasty thing to say to one's child. Totally soured my opinion of him, along with his shit acting of course.


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## Johnny Vodka (Mar 11, 2013)

Am I allowed to say someone 'murdered' a song?


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## Ponyutd (Mar 11, 2013)

Yes. He did, Avenue and Alleyways.


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## Frances Lengel (Mar 11, 2013)

sihhi said:


> Meanie is an empty term, suggesting if he was kinder people would big him up.
> 
> In the late eighties HRMC investigated his taxation behaviour and found serious irregularities, he got away with it by declaring himself bankrupt and starting over - benefit claimants aren't ever given such leeway, yet he still has the gall to complain. He fails to understand that there are dozens of unpaid and poorly paid people working on each one of his films, he basically resents anything stopping his wealth that doesn't chime with his rightist preferences preferences.
> 
> ...


 
Did he come out with all that? Guy's a trumpet then. I was going to say that he was misguided (at best) in his use of the word rape, but I was prepared to view the rest of his outburst charitably in that I was prepared to believe he meant we're all getting fuck all back for our taxes rather than him begrudging paying tax per se. But in the light of that, Ray Winstone, you're nowt but a fat actor - You'll not be missed.


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## ymu (Mar 11, 2013)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Am I allowed to say someone 'murdered' a song?


 
Of course.


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## youngian (Mar 11, 2013)

The little known BAIT- Bad American Impersonation Tax saw Winestone really walloped by the Inland Revenue after the Departed was screened.


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## Greebo (Mar 11, 2013)

youngian said:


> The little known BAIT- Bad American Impersonation Tax saw Winestone really walloped by the Inland Revenue after the Departed was screened.


Shoulda happened.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2013)

So long, Ray, you tool.

"What fucking tool?"

"This fucking tool!" Thump.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 12, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> So long, Ray, you tool.
> 
> "What fucking tool?"
> 
> "This fucking tool!" Thump.


 

this thread has already been scummed Panda


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> this thread has already been scummed Panda


 
So fucking what?


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## DotCommunist (Mar 12, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> So fucking what?


 

I RUN B WING!


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I RUN B WING!


 
Yes dear, of course you do.


Thwack.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 12, 2013)

rover07 said:
			
		

> Funny that he complains about gangs considering that he's made a career out of playing criminals.



He's been in more than one film that has rape in them too.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 12, 2013)

someone on here once claimed to have sampled the piteous and harrowing cries from the rape scene in Scum and put them to a techno beat. Chico Enrico iirc. Thats got to be a real buzz killer on the stereo


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## trevhagl (Mar 12, 2013)

editor said:


> Fuck off then, you slaaaag. Hope the online betting ads paid nicely for you.
> 
> Here's a thought: maybe it's because your income is so fucking sky high that you're getting a large tax bill?
> 
> Muppet.


 
there's the door ...now FUCK OFF!


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## no-no (Mar 12, 2013)

editor said:


> Yes. And he still comes off as a greedy, selfish cunt. Him leaving the country puts even less money in the pot to get things fixed, but he's OK because he's rich enough to have the choice.


 
Exactly, claims he loves his country but he's ready to fuck off as soon as it's not profitable enough for him.


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## editor (Mar 17, 2013)

Turns out he's an even _bigger_ cunt and hypocrite:


> Movie hardman Ray Winstone has bragged that he avoided paying tax for nearly 20 years – and has no regrets, the Sunday People reports .
> 
> His admission follows last week’s controversy, when it emerged the millionaire star of The Sweeney took advantage of a loophole to slash his tax bill by nearly £100,000.
> 
> ...





> Winstone’s financial past began to emerge after he moaned about the UK tax system in a radio interview last week .
> 
> It then came out that he put nearly £350,000 of his £1.4million earnings for the year to April 2012 beyond the taxman’s reach, saying it was “administrative expenses”.
> 
> ...


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ray-winstone-didnt-pay-tax-1768447


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## Orang Utan (Mar 18, 2013)

May Kasahara said:


> Someone i know used to date one of his daughters. He alleges that RW called said daughter a 'shit cunt slag' over Christmas lunch one year. I couldn't possibly comment, of course, except to say that RW is a shitty actor and I hope he does fuck off, to retirement.


is that the same person i know? j?


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## rover07 (Mar 18, 2013)

What I find surprising about this is how someone who earns £770,000 a year could be worried about how much extra tax they have to pay.

I mean is that his motivation for working, more money?

What can't he buy or do with £770,000?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2013)

Well if the UK tax laws aren't good enough for him then lucrative UK acting jobs shouldn't be either.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 18, 2013)

If he leaves the country, who will play 'Ray Winstone' in all those films?


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## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2013)

Maybe it's a case as both Paul Weller and Shaun Ryder said as regards their own money grabbing, them private schools don't come cheap.


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## Wilf (Mar 18, 2013)

It's game set and match after the stuff sihi quoted and all the evidence of his tax dodging - he's a scumbag, so unfazed by his own hypocrisy that he can highlight the very issue where he has ripped us all off for years.  His cumulative 'avoided' taxes could have filled a few holes in roads, maybe bought the odd MRI scanner.  However, even on top of that pile of detestation I'd still add a mezzanine floor, given his promotion of online gambling.  What a self interested shit.

Still, at least there's this: 



> He recently had a cameo appearance in the Danny Dyer flop,_ 'Run For Your Wife',_ which reportedly netted just £747 at the box office on its opening weekend.


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## May Kasahara (Mar 18, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> is that the same person i know? j?


 
Indeed. You are going to tell me he made it all up now, aren't you 

Give him my best next time you see him.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 18, 2013)

May Kasahara said:


> Indeed. You are going to tell me he made it all up now, aren't you
> 
> Give him my best next time you see him.


the story he told me was how winstone punched him twice in the face!


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## May Kasahara (Mar 18, 2013)

Arf  I think he may have mentioned a slightly less lurid version to me. Got to love the boy's enthusiasm for a good yarn though.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 18, 2013)

I know someone else who is in a band with the less famous daughter (the one our friend went out with) and he ruined the hat she had borrowed off her dad (that he wore in Indiana Jones), by crushing it in the roof mechanism of her convertible


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## DotCommunist (Mar 18, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> If he leaves the country, who will play 'Ray Winstone' in all those films?


 

Danny Dyer is in training


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## Ceej (Apr 3, 2013)

Dear Mr.Winstone,
May I introduce you to a fellow patriotic Brit, who is considerably richer than yaw...despite losing her place on the Rich List by giving too much of her money to charity.Just goes to show you can't buy class, regardless of how much tax you evade.

_"I chose to remain a domiciled taxpayer for a couple of reasons. The main one was that I wanted my children to grow up where I grew up, to have proper roots in a culture as old and magnificent as Britain’s; to be citizens, with everything that implies, of a real country, not free-floating ex-pats, living in the limbo of some tax haven and associating only with the children of similarly greedy tax exiles._
_A second reason, however, was that I am indebted to the British welfare state; the very one that Mr Cameron would like to replace with charity handouts. When my life hit rock bottom, that safety net, threadbare though it had become under John Major’s Government, was there to break the fall. I cannot help feeling, therefore, that it would have been contemptible to scarper for the West Indies at the first sniff of a seven-figure royalty cheque. This, if you like, is my notion of patriotism. On the available evidence, I suspect that it is Lord Ashcroft’s idea of being a mug". __*JK Rowling*._


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## ymu (Apr 3, 2013)

Great stuff ceej.


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## Frances Lengel (Apr 3, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Maybe it's a case as both Paul Weller and Shaun Ryder said as regards their own money grabbing, them private schools don't come cheap.


 
Yeah but Shaun Ryder was legally banned from having any legitimate source of income for years - Cut the guy a bit of slack. And Bernard Manning was a good guy who's long overdue for a critical re-appraisal.

Paul Welly-Top's a wanker though, so as you were.


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## Frances Lengel (Apr 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I RUN B WING!  HOME CRYING!


 
Fixed for accuracy.


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## Jay Short (Jun 9, 2014)

editor said:


> Fuck off then, you slaaaag. Hope the online betting ads paid nicely for you.
> 
> Here's a thought: maybe it's because your income is so fucking sky high that you're getting a large tax bill?
> 
> Muppet.


 Magic comment pal, right on the button. His acting ability is similar to Sean Connery's. Diabolical, who ever heard of a Russian Naval Commander with a Scottish accent, or a Bostonian Criminal with a stressed Poplar accent. And as to his going abroad to avoid tax, Ciao Motherfucker !. He blagged his way into West Ham for years, until The Porn Kings sussed him out - JS


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## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2014)

Don't remember this jolly I had with editor at all.  Nice re-read. As usual my argument turns shit the longer it lasts.  I nailed it at the first hurdle. And then stumbled into oblivion somewhat. I'm not built for the National.


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## weltweit (Jun 10, 2014)

Has he buggered off then?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm not built for the National.


To be fair, neither is Ray Winstone.


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