# Cleaner for Brixton Hill



## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

Hi, 

I am looking for a cleaner to clean our house, just a couple of hours every other week to do the kitchen and bathroom mainly. 

Does anyone know of a good cleaner? the last couple we have got (from gumtree) have just wiped surfaces. 

Any help much appreciated.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

I've had 69 views now without a reply :-( 

Someone must know/have a decent cleaner


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## 100% masahiko (Jun 26, 2011)

Yeah I know a decent cleaner.


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## Badgers (Jun 26, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Yeah I know a decent cleaner.


 
Leon?


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## Biddlybee (Jun 26, 2011)

Nah Matilda is better value for money.


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## editor (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> I've had 69 views now without a reply :-(
> 
> Someone must know/have a decent cleaner


 Maybe because the demographic here is more of the "clean yer own house you lazy fecker" type?


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 26, 2011)

On the bright side, the last cleaner thread was bumped by a cleaner with excellent references, seeking surfaces sticky enough to provide an exciting challenge. 

That was a North London request, and the OP had long since been banned, but there's certainly hope for you.


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## Laughing Toad (Jun 26, 2011)

Are there are no unemployed people here, or is it that welfare benefits are so high that nobody needs the work?

<covers head with arms>


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## editor (Jun 26, 2011)

Laughing Toad said:


> Are there are no unemployed people here, or is it that welfare benefits are so high that nobody needs the work?


How much do you think an unemployed person would earn from cleaning someone's bog and kitchen for a couple of hours every other week, then?


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## Laughing Toad (Jun 26, 2011)

editor said:


> How much do you think an unemployed person would earn from cleaning someone's bog and kitchen for a couple of hours every other week, then?


 
Minimum wage. Maybe a little more......but that wasn't your question was it.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

Laughing Toad said:


> Are there are no unemployed people here, or is it that welfare benefits are so high that nobody needs the work?
> 
> <covers head with arms>


 
They'd get to keep a fiver, which they'd probably spend on the bus getting there.

Idiot.


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## London_Calling (Jun 26, 2011)

Phew! I thought 'that's a big job'. Turns out it's just . .  never mind


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## Laughing Toad (Jun 26, 2011)

ymu said:


> They'd get to keep a fiver, which they'd probably spend on the bus getting there.
> 
> Idiot.


 
I can appreciate that not everyone has my education, but you must have done _some_ basic maths in school.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

Laughing Toad said:


> I can appreciate that not everyone has my education, but you must have done _some_ basic maths in school.


 
You were clearly never taught how to check your asinine assumptions against the real world.

Are you expecting people to live off 2 hours pay a fortnight? If not, how much of their earnings are they allowed to keep before DWP claws it back?

Idiot.


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## miss minnie (Jun 26, 2011)

This may come as a shock to some, so stay seated and hold on....

There are people who are professional cleaners.

There are people who actually need the help of professional cleaners.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

I agree, miss minnie. No one has asked why the OP needs a cleaner for 2 hours per fortnight, but it doesn't seem reasonable to assume that it's because they can't be arsed to do it themselves.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

I have no problem with people employing cleaners as long as they are paid right. But does anybody _need_ a cleaner? It seems like something of a luxury to me to have a cleaner, a bit like being able to afford a taxi home rather than taking the night bus.


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## miss minnie (Jun 26, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I have no problem with people employing cleaners as long as they are paid right. But does anybody _need_ a cleaner? It seems like something of a luxury to me to have a cleaner, a bit like being able to afford a taxi home rather than taking the night bus.


I need a cleaner.  Age has brought me a chronic problem with splintered bone in my right shoulder.  I have cleaned my own home all of my life and now that I need someone to help I have been unable to bring myself to hire a cleaner owing to attitudes such as those displayed on this thread.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

So what are we saying? The demographic of this site don't have the money to afford a cleaner? 

What I love about Brixton is it's diversity of both class and ethnicity, and it is a real shame the forum appears against reflecting this. I read pretty much every thread on here daily, and I see that constantly it is reduced to class (at the annoyance of many). Whilst I do not want to get involved in this debate, is it wrong to think that local people might know a cleaner? 

As someone who has lived in Brixton for five years, it is a shame that you imply I am a lazy fecker for wanting A) to employee someone local and B) asking the local community for advice. I

 also believe your implication that being a cleaner is below people living in Brixton is ridiculously narrow minded, we pay well above minimum wage, cash in hand so is a nice job for someone who needs a bit of pocket money for a couple of hours work. Being a cleaner is a respectable job, and I am confused by the juxtaposition that you perceive a cleaner not to be well paid enough vocation for the people of Brixton and for frowning on my house for having enough to afford a cleaner?

Editor aside – I am still keen for advice of how best to find a decent cleaner in Brixton?


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## Laughing Toad (Jun 26, 2011)

ymu said:


> You were clearly never taught how to check your asinine assumptions against the real world.
> 
> Are you expecting people to live off 2 hours pay a fortnight? If not, how much of their earnings are they allowed to keep before DWP claws it back?
> 
> Idiot.


 

Of course I’m not expecting people to live off two hours pay a week, but I am expecting them to reduce their dependency on the state.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> I need a cleaner.  Age has brought me a chronic problem with splintered bone in my right shoulder.  I have cleaned my own home all of my life and now that I need someone to help I have been unable to bring myself to hire a cleaner owing to attitudes such as those displayed on this thread.


 
Fair enough. I was going to add that physical problems would mean that you might need one. Doesn't appear to be the OP's situation, though. 

(Not that I'm intending to have a go at the OP. I'm not - if you can afford a cleaner and there is someone happy to do it for what you're paying, everyone's a winner.)


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

Laughing Toad said:


> Of course I’m not expecting people to live off two hours pay a week, but I am expecting them to reduce their dependency on the state.


 
I'm guessing you've never been on the dole for any length of time, LT. You might not be so self-righteous if you had.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I have no problem with people employing cleaners as long as they are paid right. But does anybody _need_ a cleaner? It seems like something of a luxury to me to have a cleaner, a bit like being able to afford a taxi home rather than taking the night bus.


Some people wouldn't be able to do more strenuous cleaning tasks, like say deep cleaning a kitchen or bathroom every fortnight or so, no.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

Laughing Toad said:


> Of course I’m not expecting people to live off two hours pay a week, but I am expecting them to reduce their dependency on the state.


 
You self-righteous, ignorant prick.

Almost makes me want to applaud the tax-dodging cunt of an OP. But I won't.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

Anyway, fuck us lot, Miss Minnie. If you feel you need a cleaner, get one.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

YMU - Why am I a tax-dodger? I don't think I have ever dodged tax? How can you accuse someone of being 'self righteous' and then call someone else a 'c*nt' which is a horrible word and way to describe someone you have never met!

I don’t _need _a cleaner, but I live in a shared house, and we can afford to put in £10 a month each for four hours cleaning to ensure the kitchen maintains a decent level of cleanliness. It is sad that as a house this responsibility falls on the same ppl, but we have agreed the best solution is to get a cleaner. It is a nice luxury to be able to afford this, but then I guess little luxuries are why I work 50hr weeks...


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

It's very common for people in shared houses to have cleaners nowadays. It does certainly help with the house politics!


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> *YMU - Why am I a tax-dodger?* I don't think I have ever dodged tax? How can you accuse someone of being 'self righteous' and then call someone else a 'c*nt' which is a horrible word and way to describe someone you have never met!
> 
> I don’t _need _a cleaner, but I live in a shared house, and we can afford to put in £10 a month each for four hours cleaning to ensure the kitchen maintains a decent level of cleanliness. It is sad that as a house this responsibility falls on the same ppl, but we have agreed the best solution is to get a cleaner. It is a nice luxury to be able to afford this, but then I guess little luxuries are why I work 50hr weeks...



You just said so, you fuckwit.



B-Town said:


> So what are we saying? The demographic of this site don't have the money to afford a cleaner?
> 
> What I love about Brixton is it's diversity of both class and ethnicity, and it is a real shame the forum appears against reflecting this. I read pretty much every thread on here daily, and I see that constantly it is reduced to class (at the annoyance of many). Whilst I do not want to get involved in this debate, is it wrong to think that local people might know a cleaner?
> 
> ...


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## Voley (Jun 26, 2011)

Paying someone cash can be legit, it's up to them to declare it, isn't it?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

If I were employing a cleaner, I'm pretty sure both they and I would be happy with a cash-in-hand arrangement. I wouldn't feel guilty about it. Best not to talk about it on a bb board, though.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

NVP said:


> Paying someone cash can be legit, it's up to them to declare it, isn't it?


 
Exactly! - who's the fuckwit now?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2011)

Cash is the most common arrangement isn't it? Always has been in situations that I've heard of.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's very common for people in shared houses to have cleaners nowadays. It does certainly help with the house politics!


 
In a shared house I was in as a student it was part of the lease that we had to hire a cleaner as well. To be fair, it was nine blokes, none of whom were what you would call the tidiest people ever.

The cleaner was all right but was thought to nick any fags or dope that you left lying around. Though actually in retrospect anybody could have done that and blamed it on him.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The cleaner was all right but was thought to nick any fags or dope that you left lying around. Though actually in retrospect anybody could have done that and blamed it on him.


 Ah yes, part of the 'shit, the cleaner's coming, we'd better tidy up' syndrome.


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## Me76 (Jun 26, 2011)

I do love threads about cleaners on urban.


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## miss minnie (Jun 26, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Anyway, fuck us lot, Miss Minnie. If you feel you need a cleaner, get one.


I haven't been able to do it, good old catholic guilt. 

I have partly got around the situation by buying machines... a dishwasher, a steam cleaner and a floorwasher.  A local working person's loss is Amazon's gain I suppose.


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## lighterthief (Jun 26, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> I haven't been able to do it, good old catholic guilt.
> 
> I have partly got around the situation by buying machines... a dishwasher, a steam cleaner and a floorwasher.  A local working person's loss is Amazon's gain I suppose.


You feel guilt because of Urban's collective opinion?!  Get over it and hire one!


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2011)

I hate vacuuming so much I've considered getting a Roomba. Wouldn't that money be better spent paying a decent amount for somebody to do it?


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## London_Calling (Jun 26, 2011)

What else could Urban prescribe for people to not/do with their money today?

Gardening - should *we* all do our own gardening? Laundry? Ironing? Decorating? Bike maintenaince?

How about entertaining ourselves at home - parlour games on a Friday night?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

I can understand that kind of guilt. To my parents' generation, the idea of employing a cleaner was anathema - particularly to the woman. Aside from the fact that nobody I knew had one or would even have thought of having one, it would just have seemed somehow shameful, like the woman of the house wasn't able to do her job - you've got a cleaner? Who do you think you are, Lady Muck? Totally fucked up and wrong, but that's definitely how it was, and we've still got a bit of that now. Irrational feelings of guilt, even when you know they're wrong, can be hard to shake off.


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## miss minnie (Jun 26, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I hate vacuuming so much I've considered getting a Roomba. Wouldn't that money be better spent paying a decent amount for somebody to do it?


You can't have a Roomba without getting a cat to ride it around as well.  Am waiting for the Dyson robot personally.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> You can't have a Roomba without getting a cat that to ride it around as well.  Am waiting for the Dyson robot personally.


 
It's true, there's no point in having a Roomba without one or more cats as well. Though IME they tend not to be that keen to ride on it, more treating it with incredible suspicion as the invading crustacean that it is.


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## miss minnie (Jun 26, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> You feel guilt because of Urban's collective opinion?!  Get over it and hire one!


It goes a lot deeper than urban's opinion I'm afraid.  

Funny how urban can be as deeply conservative as the old-fashioned and repressive nuns who taught me that a woman who can't look after herself... "well, there is something wrong there", to quote Sister Stephanie (the parable of the homeless man who comes to the convent and gets a cup of tea, sixpence and an orange, while the homeless woman gets sent away with a flea in her ear).


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## miss minnie (Jun 26, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's true, there's no point in having a Roomba without one or more cats as well. Though IME they tend not to be that keen to ride on it, more treating it with incredible suspicion as the invading crustacean that it is.


Thank god for google


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

Employers should be paying NI, unless the cleaner is legit self-employed, in which case you don't pay them 'cash in hand' (which implies tax-dodging), you pay their invoices.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 26, 2011)

Oh, come off it. Do you honestly believe that anyone has a cleaner who presents them with an invoice for £25 every week?


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## TruXta (Jun 26, 2011)

I have to say you're coming across as a bit inflexible here whymoo. Tax dodging or not.


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## editor (Jun 26, 2011)

I've done cleaning jobs myself and they've always been cash in hand, no questions asked. It can be a horrible job too.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

What if it's a nice little bit of extra cash for someone on income support? Should they declare it? Should they fuck.


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## trashpony (Jun 26, 2011)

The anathema about cleaners on this board is entirely down to the fact that it's women's work. There is nothing wrong with cleaning, cash in hand or otherwise. It's kept me going when I couldn't get any other work.


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## editor (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> The anathema about cleaners on this board is entirely down to the fact that it's women's work.


How do you figure that one out?


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## TruXta (Jun 26, 2011)

Is it really womens work still? I've not employed cleaners, but my uncle's one. Would've thought that there could be a fair bit of money in it if done right.


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## trashpony (Jun 26, 2011)

editor said:


> How do you figure that one out?


 
No other low-paid job is held in quite as much disdain. And 99% of domestic cleaners are women. 

I can't think of any other reason people get so riled about it. No one has a problem about employing someone to do any other kind of low-skilled low-paid job.


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## _angel_ (Jun 26, 2011)

Laughing Toad said:


> Are there are no unemployed people here, or is it that welfare benefits are so high that nobody needs the work?
> 
> <covers head with arms>


 
You're more likely to be colluding in benefit fraud of some kind, as it is cash in hand work that in itself will not pay enough to become a proper income.
I remember one girl who was getting a massively cheap rate off me moaning about council tenants, and I thought for heaven's sake, £3.50 an hour, where do you expect people to live!
 Building up a client base from scratch takes time and total honesty with the authorities usually results in a severe, severe headache. Tax and benefits system is not set up to cope with fluctuating incomes, both me and my sis have done this in our time (mainly in my case because I had to do something I could bring a baby to). The area you live in makes a difference and if you have transport or are spending hours and hours walking from job to job/ getting buses that eats into your pay. If you live in a rich area (or nearer to one) it's going to be easier setting up than in some very poor area, obviously.

As to is it a mainly a womans job - domestic cleaning and office cleaning is yes, but the heavy duty outdoor stuff is mainly male.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> The anathema about cleaners on this board is entirely down to the fact that it's women's work. .


 
I think there's a bit more to it than that. I think there's an element of feeling of distaste because there's a feeling that you're employing someone to do something you should be doing yourself, that there are connotations with having a servant to clean up after you. Rightly or wrongly - mostly wrongly - I think that's part of the gut reaction people have to the idea.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> No other low-paid job is held in quite as much disdain.


 
Isn't the disdain here not so much directed at the cleaner as the cleanee?


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## _angel_ (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> No other low-paid job is held in quite as much disdain. And 99% of domestic cleaners are women.
> 
> I can't think of any other reason people get so riled about it. No one has a problem about employing someone to do any other kind of low-skilled low-paid job.


 I think the disdain is maybe because in  99.9% of cases the _employer_ is the woman of the house, not the man. But there's other reasons as well. How often do people employing cleaners pay them holiday and sick pay?


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## trashpony (Jun 26, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think there's a bit more to it than that. I think there's an element of feeling of distaste because there's a feeling that you're employing someone to do something you should be doing yourself, that there are connotations with having a servant to clean up after you. Rightly or wrongly - mostly wrongly - I think that's part of the gut reaction people have to the idea.


 
Yes, maybe. I just think it's dreadful because it's such a great way for women (like me) who have small children to earn a reasonable amount of money during school hours but there are so many people who wouldn't employ one because they think it's wrong in a misguided sort of way. Just seems slightly odd to me


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Isn't the disdain here not so much directed at the cleaner as the cleanee?


 
Yes, technically, but it is an odd sort of disdain to say "you shouldn't hire a cleaner but there is nothing wrong with being a cleaner". So who is supposed to hire cleaners? Only people who've got some sort of medically tested cleaning-exclusive disability?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> I think the disdain is maybe because in  99.9% of cases the _employer_ is the woman of the house, not the man. But there's other reasons as well. How often do people employing cleaners pay them holiday and sick pay?


 
A job like a cleaner - where you'll have lots of clients if you're full-time - is one that is really set up to be self-employed, though, isn't it? 

Which is why people should expect to pay considerably more than the minimum wage, of course.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> No other low-paid job is held in quite as much disdain. And 99% of domestic cleaners are women.
> 
> I can't think of any other reason people get so riled about it. No one has a problem about employing someone to do any other kind of low-skilled low-paid job.


 
I don't understand the distain, it is good money, for a couple of hours work - perfect for people with families who need to fit working hours in around the children being in school. I guess this is why domestic cleaners are usually women. Finding a 'good' cleaner is not easy, suggesting it is more skilled than people think, or atleast it requires an honest hard working person and perhaps it is a sad state of society that this is proving so hard to find!


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## _angel_ (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Yes, maybe. I just think it's dreadful because it's such a great way for women (like me) who have small children to earn a reasonable amount of money during school hours but there are so many people who wouldn't employ one because they think it's wrong in a misguided sort of way. Just seems slightly odd to me


 You will have the same prob in the hols though as any other job, I always did so when kids got to school age it got harder, not easier!
No way could I clean with Dara there like I did James tho, anyway!


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Yes, maybe. I just think it's dreadful because it's such a great way for women (like me) who have small children to earn a reasonable amount of money during school hours but there are so many people who wouldn't employ one because they think it's wrong in a misguided sort of way. Just seems slightly odd to me


 


FridgeMagnet said:


> Yes, technically, but it is an odd sort of disdain to say "you shouldn't hire a cleaner but there is nothing wrong with being a cleaner". So who is supposed to hire cleaners? Only people who've got some sort of medically tested cleaning-exclusive disability?


 
These are good points, and those of us who are displaying various levels of disdain for either party should probably have a hard look at ourselves!


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## trashpony (Jun 26, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> I think the disdain is maybe because in  99.9% of cases the _employer_ is the woman of the house, not the man. But there's other reasons as well. How often do people employing cleaners pay them holiday and sick pay?


 
Why though? if there are a couple who have a cleaner, why is the woman the employer? Unless you're implying that cleaning is women's responsibility of course. 

There are two ways of hiring a cleaner. 1) through an agency where they get paid sick pay and holiday pay but a much lower hourly rate 2) directly where they get paid holiday pay if the owner is on holiday but not paid for their own holidays and no sick pay. Not sure which works out better. The people who go the 2) route tend to be people who can't legally work in the UK. Should they not be allowed to work? I dunno. My old cleaner has two kids back in Brazil and is a single mother. Cleaning is the best way she can support her family. There is no work for her in Brazil that pays anywhere close to what she can earn here as a cleaner.


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## _angel_ (Jun 26, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> A job like a cleaner - where you'll have lots of clients if you're full-time - is one that is really set up to be self-employed, though, isn't it?
> 
> Which is why people should expect to pay considerably more than the minimum wage, of course.



Yes. Where you're based seems to determine pay rates. Seen some tight sod round here expecting 3 hrs a week for minimum wage - no way now! It's inconvenience money, you can be cancelled on at the drop of a hat. You might get ill and earn nothing. Fuck that for min wage! When pay rates are that low, you are really subbing benefit fraud of some kind, or starvation.


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## trashpony (Jun 26, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> You will have the same prob in the hols though as any other job, I always did so when kids got to school age it got harder, not easier!
> No way could I clean with Dara there like I did James tho, anyway!


 
He's going to have to go to holiday club. It's still worth my while because I earn £9/hour cleaning and holiday club is £4.50


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## _angel_ (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Why though? if there are a couple who have a cleaner, why is the woman the employer? Unless you're implying that cleaning is women's responsibility of course.



Why indeed, that is just how it was in every single case of a couple, that's all. I only had one (single) man as an employer.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Yes. Where you're based seems to determine pay rates. Seen some tight sod round here expecting 3 hrs a week for minimum wage - no way now! It's inconvenience money, you can be cancelled on at the drop of a hat. You might get ill and earn nothing. Fuck that for min wage! When pay rates are that low, you are really subbing benefit fraud of some kind, or starvation.


 
Or a full-time mother, whose partner works to support the family , and has a few spare hours where she can work to generate that little bit of money to treat the family at a weekend? If she doesnt do her two hours and earn £20 then no problem? why does everything have to be so drastic???


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Yes. Where you're based seems to determine pay rates. Seen some tight sod round here expecting 3 hrs a week for minimum wage - no way now! It's inconvenience money, you can be cancelled on at the drop of a hat. You might get ill and earn nothing. Fuck that for min wage! When pay rates are that low, you are really subbing benefit fraud of some kind, or starvation.


 
This is the real problem, that people treat it as a low status job and want to pay cock all for it. If you're going to hire a cleaner you should not be a tightarse. Minimum wage is a joke anyway, and for a couple of hours where the person likely has to come in specially, it's even more of a joke.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Why though? if there are a couple who have a cleaner, why is the woman the employer? Unless you're implying that cleaning is women's responsibility of course.
> 
> There are two ways of hiring a cleaner. 1) through an agency where they get paid sick pay and holiday pay but a much lower hourly rate 2) directly where they get paid holiday pay if the owner is on holiday but not paid for their own holidays and no sick pay. Not sure which works out better. The people who go the 2) route tend to be people who can't legally work in the UK. Should they not be allowed to work? I dunno. My old cleaner has two kids back in Brazil and is a single mother. Cleaning is the best way she can support her family. There is no work for her in Brazil that pays anywhere close to what she can earn here as a cleaner.


 
Bet the living expenses are a bit of a downer for her, though, eh?

The Home Office encourages exploitation of immigrant labour by taking years to issue NI numbers, leaving people little choice but to work for unscrupulous employers. The benefits system is virtual entrapment for fraud it is so ridiculously harsh on those trying to get back into work. None of this is ideal, but I'm not going to turn around and say that it's OK to pay cash in hand. If the employee knows they are responsible for their own tax, and are being paid a reasonable rate (£20/hour is a lot closer to reasonable that £12.50/hour for a two hour job), then fine. Otherwise, you're not just pocketing their tax, you're pocketing their pension.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> This is the real problem, that people treat it as a low status job and want to pay cock all for it. If you're going to hire a cleaner you should not be a tightarse. Minimum wage is a joke anyway, and for a couple of hours where the person likely has to come in specially, it's even more of a joke.


 
So how much would you propose a cleaner should be paid an hour?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

The four of you have agreed to pay a tenner a month each for a cleaner. If you all added five pounds each to that, they'd be on a reasonable amount, imo.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> So how much would you propose a cleaner should be paid an hour?


 
They're probably going to be travelling half an hour each way, and it'll cost them £2-4 on the bus. They have to do their own tax paperwork, sort it with DWP, or risk going down for fraud.

How much do you think £25 works out at for doing two hours cleaning for you, if you count the actual cost and the actual labour?

Self-employed contractors typically charge 2-3 times their market rate for a full-time job, because they have to do their own invoicing and tax, cover their own holiday and sick pay, and get no pension scheme, and they have to spend time chasing business, which is a cost that has to be passed on to clients.

For such a short job, if the ratio of travel time and cost is high, then you're looking at the upper end of that 2-3x. Living wage in London is £8ish/hour now. So, £20/hour minimum, £25 better.

£50/fortnight for you.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> So how much would you propose a cleaner should be paid an hour?


 
Depends on the situation. I wouldn't pay less than a tenner an hour - actually more tbh - which would be if somebody was basically moving between a few jobs in the same block so there was a fairly consistent amount of work. I wouldn't expect somebody to come all across London and clean my flat for an hour or two and then go for a tenner an hour, short jobs need a better rate.


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## _angel_ (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> Or a full-time mother, whose partner works to support the family , and has a few spare hours where she can work to generate that little bit of money to treat the family at a weekend? If she doesnt do her two hours and earn £20 then no problem? why does everything have to be so drastic???


 
Because you are automatically expecting her to have someone who supports her financially, hence, she can be paid less. Ie the whole Pin Money thing. What happens when the woman is single and has no support... she may have to claim benefits and risk being done for fraud. Or she may have nothing at all and be very poor.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

ymu said:


> They're probably going to be travelling half an hour each way, and it'll cost them £2-4 on the bus. They have to do their own tax paperwork, sort it with DWP, or risk going down for fraud.
> 
> How much do you think £25 works out at for doing two hours cleaning for you, if you count the actual cost and the actual labour?
> 
> ...


 
If I was to pay £50 through an agency I could have a cleaner come and clean for 6 hours - now, I am not saying that I should employe the cheapest (I am actually trying to avoid that) but I am not going to pay 2 or 3 times the market rate.  

By looking for a local cleaner they shouldnt have to have any travel costs, and I purchase all the equipment/producst which adds £10 a month onto the costs


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## peterkro (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> So how much would you propose a cleaner should be paid an hour?



A fairly good guide would be the same as you are paid per hour.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> If I was to pay £50 through an agency I could have a cleaner come and clean for 6 hours - now, I am not saying that I should employe the cheapest (I am actually trying to avoid that) but I am not going to pay 2 or 3 times the market rate.
> 
> By looking for a local cleaner they shouldnt have to have any travel costs, and I purchase all the equipment/producst which adds £10 a month onto the costs


 
The agency is an employer. And I doubt you'd get 6 hours for £50 in London with agency fees.

Go through an agency, or pay someone properly. Don't pretend that £25 for trekking out to you, cleaning your shit up, and then dealing with their own paperwork is somehow doing some little woman somewhere a favour. For fuck's sake.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jun 26, 2011)

I considered cleaning as a flexible option to fit around my current commitments but then I asked myself how much an hour of my time spent thoroughly cleaning is worth and whether it is likely people will pay that rate and not just what the market can drive it down to. Probably not.


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## London_Calling (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> The anathema about cleaners on this board is entirely down to the fact that it's women's work. There is nothing wrong with cleaning, cash in hand or otherwise. It's kept me going when I couldn't get any other work.


As opposed to cleaning streets, maintaining the sewerage system, bin collections, council recycling plants, etc, etc.

(((women)))


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

peterkro said:


> A fairly good guide would be the same as you are paid per hour.


Double that. Being self-employed incurs a lot of costs that PAYE doesn't have, and none of the benefits. And for a two hour job ...


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

peterkro said:


> A fairly good guide would be the same as you are paid per hour.


 
Well that is ridiculous

I have years of experience in a specialised field, I have invested several thousand in a degree and hours of study to qualify myself, I spend many nights away from home in order to complete my job, I am faced with incredibly stiff competition and have to handle a large amount of stress to deliver against my goals - all qualities not associated with cleaning and therefore not going to demand the same amount. I don’t want to pay minimum wage, but your communist suggestion is stupid!


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## trashpony (Jun 26, 2011)

ymu said:


> Double that. Being self-employed incurs a lot of costs that PAYE doesn't have, and none of the benefits. And for a two hour job ...


 
I earn around £6/hour for a lot of my self-employed work (which I have to declare) so cleaning cash in hand is a lot of a better deal. 

OP - fuck off with you paying for the equipment and materials. Of course you bloody should, whatever job someone is doing. Does your employer ask you to cough up for printer cartridges, give you a phone bill at the end of the month or ask you to buy your own paper? Thought not


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

ymu said:


> The agency is an employer. And I doubt you'd get 6 hours for £50 in London with agency fees.
> 
> Go through an agency, or pay someone properly. Don't pretend that £25 for trekking out to you, cleaning your shit up, and then dealing with their own paperwork is somehow doing some little woman somewhere a favour. For fuck's sake.


 
My last cleaner was 3hrs for £27 - but like I said she was rubish (she also lived in Stret Hill - so hardly having to trek across London). She didnt speak English, so I doubt she did all her own paperwork.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> I earn around £6/hour for a lot of my self-employed work (which I have to declare) so cleaning cash in hand is a lot of a better deal.
> 
> OP - fuck off with you paying for the equipment and materials. Of course you bloody should, whatever job someone is doing. Does your employer ask you to cough up for printer cartridges, give you a phone bill at the end of the month or ask you to buy your own paper? Thought not


 
Not at all, I am happy to pay for this and dont think I shouldnt - but there is a difference between £6ph and £25 which is what I was defending against.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

By my reckoning, that two hours is going to take 4 hours out of someone's life, and cost them about a fiver. So, your £25 is £20 for four hours fucking about, just 60% of the living wage.

You think you're offering good money, but you won't pay them what you get paid for a guaranteed 35 hours a week and paid holiday, sick pay, pension?

You utterly contemptible human being. Do fuck off.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jun 26, 2011)

Why was she shit?


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> My last cleaner was 3hrs for £27 - but like I said she was rubish (she also lived in Stret Hill - so hardly having to trek across London). She didnt speak English, so I doubt she did all her own paperwork.


 
Why would anyone do a good job for you when you hold then in such contempt. And you're only paying a quarter, you miserly cunt.


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## trashpony (Jun 26, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Why was she shit?


 
She just wiped the surfaces. Allegedly. 

OP - if you live in a shared flat then two hours twice a month is frankly a joke. Cleaners are supposed to clean, not excavate layers of shit and grease.


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## peterkro (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> Well that is ridiculous
> 
> I have years of experience in a specialised field, I have invested several thousand in a degree and hours of study to qualify myself, I spend many nights away from home in order to complete my job, I am faced with incredibly stiff competition and have to handle a large amount of stress to deliver against my goals - all qualities not associated with cleaning and therefore not going to demand the same amount. I don’t want to pay minimum wage, but your communist suggestion is stupid!



First off I'm not a Communist (at least not in the way you mean it).Your oh so important job is obviously so important to you that you can't clean your own shit up and want someone else to do it for you,so in my opinion the only fair wage is the same as yours. Whatever your job is it's not so important that you can dismiss cleaning up after yourself and if you choose to pay someone else to do it pay a rate that respects how important the job is.


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## London_Calling (Jun 26, 2011)

ymu said:


> Why would anyone do a good job for you when you hold then in such contempt. And you're only paying a quarter, you miserly cunt.



£27 for 3 hours domestic cleaning  is a quarter of what?


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

ymu said:


> By my reckoning, that two hours is going to take 4 hours out of someone's life, and cost them about a fiver. So, your £25 is £20 for four hours fucking about, just 60% of the living wage.
> 
> You think you're offering good money, but you won't pay them what you get paid for a guaranteed 35 hours a week and paid holiday, sick pay, pension?
> 
> You utterly contemptible human being. Do fuck off.


 
Ok, my girlfriend is a self employed personal trainer. I am quite aware of the challenges of being self employed, the paperwork, the travel, the lack of sick pay, the lack of holiday pay, the treatment from her 'employees', etc. I am also aware that this a career choice she made, she could have chosen not to be self employed, so you king of have to accept all this when you sign up to be self employed? But as this is my thread 'in search of a cleaner', if it offends you, why don't *you *fuck off!


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

Nine pounds an hour does sound a bit tightwad especially if there are four of you paying and you're all in work.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

trashpony said:


> She just wiped the surfaces. Allegedly.
> 
> OP - if you live in a shared flat then two hours twice a month is frankly a joke. Cleaners are supposed to clean, not excavate layers of shit and grease.


 
I completely agree trashpony and would have her for longer if I could. That said we do clean ourselves, however the cleaner is there to reduce the politics. Yesterday I spend four hours scrubbing the kitchen, I am not against cleaning, and we keep our house very clean - we are in no way slobish, we just want the carpet hoovered and the book case (dvd stand) dusted


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

peterkro said:


> First off I'm not a Communist (at least not in the way you mean it).Your oh so important job is obviously so important to you that you can't clean your own shit up and want someone else to do it for you,so in my opinion the only fair wage is the same as yours. Whatever your job is it's not so important that you can dismiss cleaning up after yourself and if you choose to pay someone else to do it pay a rate that respects how important the job is.


 
Ok, so I need a cleaner, a plumber, a gardner and a builder - do I pay them all what I earn because I cant do it? Or should i pay them relative to their skill?


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## peterkro (Jun 26, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Nine pounds an hour does sound a bit tightwad especially if there are four of you paying and you're all in work.



Indeed so an appropriate rate would be their combined hourly rate.


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## ymu (Jun 26, 2011)

I'd rather stay and kick your self-righteous little arse, if that's all the same to you. You, personally, do not want to clean your own house, but you don't think someone should be paid as much as you are to do it for you. In two hour slots.

You are a seriously deluded, tiny-minded little shitcunt with a vastly over-inflated sense of entitlement.

Fuck off.


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## peterkro (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> Ok, so I need a cleaner, a plumber, a gardner and a builder - do I pay them all what I earn because I cant do it? Or should i pay them relative to their skill?



Obviously you should pay what you earn.(although any self respecting person plying those trades would think you were a charity case)


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## lighterthief (Jun 26, 2011)

What an idiotic argument.  There are plenty of things we are happy to pay other people to do for us, and I see no reason why cleaning should be any different.


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## London_Calling (Jun 26, 2011)

ymu said:


> I'd rather stay and kick your self-righteous little arse, if that's all the same to you. You, personally, do not want to clean your own house, but you don't think someone should be paid as much as you are to do it for you. In two hour slots.
> 
> You are a seriously deluded, tiny-minded little shitcunt with a vastly over-inflated sense of entitlement.
> 
> Fuck off.


 You do need to get out a bit more.


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## Ceej (Jun 26, 2011)

I keep thinking about getting a cleaner, and now, for the first time could afford one, but the only distain I have is for myself for being a lazy cow who can't be arsed to clean up after herself. My mother would be horrified. I do work 45-55 hrs pw and have a neph and niece to run around after, in my defence. I have been a cleaner when I needed the money and I would pay a cleaner handsomely to clean (and to salve my own conscience). Certainly my own hourly rate.


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## London_Calling (Jun 26, 2011)

tut, tut, that's no excuse. Next you'll be offering work to someone who might want it.


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## B-Town (Jun 26, 2011)

So no suggestions for a cleaner? don't suppose anyone knows a good ironing person? Will pay £1 per shirt...


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## chazegee (Jun 26, 2011)

I will clean topless if you let me pay.


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## chazegee (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> So no suggestions for a cleaner? don't suppose anyone knows a good ironing person? Will pay £1 per shirt...



Please masah! No burn me wid da iron again. 

Welcome to Urban, a proper bunch of cunts.


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## Winot (Jun 26, 2011)

B-Town said:


> So no suggestions for a cleaner? don't suppose anyone knows a good ironing person? Will pay £1 per shirt...


 
Have sent PM.


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## Ms T (Jun 27, 2011)

I do know a great cleaner, but I don't think she would be interested in two hours every fortnight.  

FWIW, cleaning is a great option for the lady who we employ.  She is a lovely person and very conscientious, but her English is not great although she is trying very hard to improve it.  She currently works about 17 hours a week for two people, at £10 an hour.  No travelling costs as both jobs are less than 10 minutes walk away.


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## leanderman (Jun 27, 2011)

I am astonished by the number of people who complain how hard up they are, yet have a cleaner.

I suppose it gives them more time to watch TV.


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## ymu (Jun 27, 2011)

I am reminded of when my brother got his new job, paying four times as much as mine does at best, and telling me the salary wasn't really enough for his "needs". He didn't even blush.

A planet I'm quite glad I don't live on. He gets made redundant with alarming regularity and he's got so many huge outgoings, I think I get more stressed worrying about his finances than I do ours, and ours are shit.


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## leanderman (Jun 27, 2011)

There was a tumbleweed moment at a recent party when a friend, who does not seem to be especially well off, said he had a gardener.


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## Kanda (Jun 28, 2011)

B-Town said:


> So no suggestions for a cleaner? don't suppose anyone knows a good ironing person? Will pay £1 per shirt...


 
The dry cleaners on Brixton Hill/Moorish Rd will do it for that, maybe cheaper.


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## Yelkcub (Jun 28, 2011)

leanderman said:


> There was a tumbleweed moment at a recent party when a friend, who does not seem to be especially well off, said he had a gardener.


 
Did you call him to clean up the tumbleweed?


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## London_Calling (Jun 28, 2011)

leanderman said:


> I am astonished by the number of people who complain how hard up they are, yet have a cleaner.
> 
> I suppose it gives them more time to watch TV.


 You don't think they might be holding down a job?


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## B-Town (Jun 28, 2011)

Kanda said:


> The dry cleaners on Brixton Hill/Moorish Rd will do it for that, maybe cheaper.


 
TBH - that was a bit of a provocative statement - I am happy to iron my own shirts, and deep clean my own room. It's just the communal areas we need a cleaner for. 

Thank you anyway - I love that dry cleaners, so friendly!


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## editor (Jun 28, 2011)

B-Town said:


> TBH - that was a bit of a provocative statement - I am happy to iron my own shirts, and deep clean my own room. It's just the communal areas we need a cleaner for.
> 
> Thank you anyway - I love that dry cleaners, so friendly!


See? You're enjoying it here already!


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## B-Town (Jun 28, 2011)

I didn't say I wasn't, although YMU does set out to make it the least enjoyable experience you will ever endure - this is what my subsequent thread was for. 

TBF - I seem to have a knack of generating debate...


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## Winot (Jun 28, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> I think the disdain is maybe because in  99.9% of cases the _employer_ is the woman of the house, not the man.


 


trashpony said:


> Why though? if there are a couple who have a cleaner, why is the woman the employer? Unless you're implying that cleaning is women's responsibility of course.


 
Interesting this.  My missus and I are even-ish on the household stuff and both work.  Our cleaner _never _contacts me about issues and _never _ leaves me a note - everything is addressed to my other half, even though we communicate with her pretty evenly.

Similarly, the school always contact my wife if our daughter's ill, despite our request that they contact me (my work's more flexible so it's more likely to be me covering emergencies).

I guess it's going to take quite a while to reverse the societal assumption that these things are 'women's work'.


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 28, 2011)

B-Town said:


> I didn't say I wasn't, although YMU does set out to make it the least enjoyable experience you will ever endure - this is what my subsequent thread was for.
> 
> TBF - I seem to have a knack of generating debate...



Both threads have been a very entertaining read on an afternoon off.  Thanks


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## Winot (Jun 28, 2011)

Meanwhile: Pro-Living Wage MP advertises unpaid job.


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## Dheffo (Jun 28, 2011)

So, does anyone actually know of a cleaner that they can refer to B-Town, or what?


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## Winot (Jun 28, 2011)

Dheffo said:


> So, does anyone actually know of a cleaner that they can refer to B-Town, or what?


 
Yes, post 106.  Let's just hope she doesn't read U75.


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## Dheffo (Jun 28, 2011)

Winot said:


> Yes, post 106.  Let's just hope she doesn't read U75.


 
lol, OK, i only got to page 3 before deciding to reply :x


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## peterkro (Jun 28, 2011)

Dheffo said:


> So, does anyone actually know of a cleaner that they can refer to B-Town, or what?



Someone mentioned Leon or Mathilda,but I think they meant cleaners for BT rather than for him to hire.


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## Dheffo (Jun 28, 2011)

Surely we can find some way of linking this thread with the "au pair" thread?


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## B-Town (Jul 1, 2011)

Dheffo said:


> lol, OK, i only got to page 3 before deciding to reply :x


 
After a hundred posts I'm not sure if I can live with employing someone. I am going to save till I am able to afford to buy them their own house, then buy them a car to travel to mine and even then I will still feel guilty because, despite the fact I am paying them what they ask, I will still be a 'lazy fucker' who should have cleaned the comunal area of my house more regularly!


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## TruXta (Jul 2, 2011)

Nah, you'll still be a Tory twat.


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## Davidoff (Oct 9, 2011)

After a 'this place is a pigstye' intervention, i'm on the lookout for a cleaner. I couldn't see any suggestions for cleaners, if anyone knows of one could you lemme know? PM me if you'd rather not post it to whole forum. I wan't one cos i'm lazy.


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 9, 2011)

do it yerself yer lazy fucker


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## Pickman's model (Oct 9, 2011)

this will end well


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## Puddy_Tat (Oct 9, 2011)

I think someone should have stress-tested U75's new server by creating an account, and starting a new thread along the lines of

"I've just moved to Brixton, it's a bit rough, isn't it?  I'm a police officer by the way.  Does anyone know where I can get a cleaner?"


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## quimcunx (Oct 10, 2011)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I think someone should have stress-tested U75's new server by creating an account, and starting a new thread along the lines of
> 
> "I've just moved to Brixton, it's a bit rough, isn't it? I'm a police officer by the way. Does anyone know where I can get a cleaner?"


 
C'mon at least try to be a bit more subtle.

Anyone know a good cleaner in the Clapham or Kennington area willing to come to Brixton?

Why do you want one from Clapham or Kennington? 

I don't think I'd trust one from round here.  The locals are a bit rough aren't they? 

What do you want a cleaner for?  Are you lazy? 

I'm working a lot of extra shifts at the moment following the looting by those feckless fucking looters.


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## Puddy_Tat (Oct 10, 2011)




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## ajdown (Oct 10, 2011)

You forgot to mention all the foreigners round this way although perhaps by inference that's why you don't trust the locals - it's always best to be clear on these things I find.  A reference to 'no asylum seekers' helps too.


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## Davidoff (Oct 10, 2011)

Brixton's not rough. It took that Macintire fella ages to get mugged here. I'm working nearly 30 hours a week and i've got this new computer game to keep on top of. Then i have to call my parents once a week. SO i really dont have time. I want one from Brixton though not Kennington. I don't trust them kennington lot, how could you live in such a shit place? I want someone from brixton, like a 40-50 year old spanish woman with stories from the home-country. But i've not seen these sorts of women when i go and brave the muggings to get some coffee and cake so i was hoping there was one on urban?


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 10, 2011)

Davidoff said:


> I'm working nearly 30 hours a week and i've got this new computer game to keep on top of.


Have you tried the new Wii Interactive Cleaning game? You attach a brush to the controller and wave it around a bit and your flat gets cleaned up. It's well good. I've got to Level 5 so far...


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## Badgers (Dec 14, 2011)

Someone just asked me if I knew of a cleaner in Brixton


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