# Dune - dir. Denis Villeneuve



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2017)

Following Arrival and the new Blade Runner, Denis Villeneuve will add another feather to his impressive scifi hat  by directing a new adaptation of Dune for Legendary Pictures.

It's Official: The Dune Reboot Has Found Its Director - Bleeding Cool Comic Book, Movie, TV News

It's his lifetime dream project.

Could someone finally do it right?


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## lefteri (Feb 1, 2017)

he's a brave man - that's two stonking great weight-of-expectation projects to take on


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## The Octagon (Feb 1, 2017)

Unless they're planning a series of films, it'll be unsatisfactory as fuck.

Just make a damn TV series.

Decent pedigree behind the camera at least I suppose.


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## Wilf (Feb 1, 2017)

The Octagon said:


> Unless they're planning a series of films, it'll be unsatisfactory as fuck.
> 
> Just make a damn TV series.
> 
> Decent pedigree behind the camera at least I suppose.


There was a version of one of the books - maybe children of dune, second one in the series (?) - done as a series or 2 parter.  Seem to remember it was okay, but nothing like as good as the Lynch film.

Suppose the thing that's difficult to translate onto screen is the internal dialogue Frank Herbert gave to his main characters (I think they used voiceovers in the Lynch film). From what I remember of the books, read 30 years ago, they shift more and more towards that inner narrative and away from action as they go through the 5 (?) books.


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## Idaho (Feb 1, 2017)

The series was woeful. Utterly abysmal. 

Can't see how this won't be shit to be honest. So many ways to fail, and yet just one golden path to success.


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## Reiabuzz (Feb 1, 2017)

Sicario was brilliant. Arrival maybe less so, but not a bad watch. This could be very good.


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## The Octagon (Feb 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> There was a version of one of the books - maybe children of dune, second one in the series (?) - done as a series or 2 parter.  Seem to remember it was okay, but *nothing like as good as the Lynch film*.



To be fair, that's a really low bar 



> Suppose the thing that's difficult to translate onto screen is the internal dialogue Frank Herbert gave to his main characters (I think they used voiceovers in the Lynch film). From what I remember of the books, read 30 years ago, they shift more and more towards that inner narrative and away from action as they go through the 5 (?) books.



Possibly, although A Song of Ice and Fire is written almost entirely through POV and internal dialogue and they've done a decent job of adapting it for TV.


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## Reno (Feb 1, 2017)

The first half of the Lynch film was quite good at setting up the world and its characters and then in the second half it just rushes through lots of plot to the point of incoherence. Dune would probably benefit from splitting it into two or three films. Lynch decided to have the internal dialoge as voice overs but they weren't really neccesary.

Villeneuve is retracing the steps to of Ridley Scott backwards. After Alien, Scott worked for a long time on a Dune adaptation with art direction by HR Ginger before the project collapsed and he made Blade Runner instead.


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## Reiabuzz (Feb 1, 2017)

If this spawns an update of the game even better


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## Crispy (Feb 1, 2017)

Yeah definitely needs to be two or three films. The book itself is split in 3


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## Wilf (Feb 1, 2017)

The Octagon said:


> Possibly, although A Song of Ice and Fire is written almost entirely through POV and internal dialogue and they've done a decent job of adapting it for TV.


 Yeah, but the internal dialogue and minutiae of the way characters read the wording and body language of others is a key part of Herbert's writing. I like George Martin's prose, but it doesn't have the same intensity.


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## Reno (Feb 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Yeah, but the internal dialogue and minutiae of the way characters read the wording and body language of others is a key part of Herbert's writing. I like George Martin's prose, but it doesn't have the same intensity.


Films shouldn't merely be illustrations of books anyway. Films which are too literal an adaptation of a book are usually failures. The film makers will have to find a way to interpret the book in visual, cinematic terms rather than attempting literary devices like endless voiceovers.

Dangerous Liaisons is an excellent adaptation of Les Liaisons dangereuses and it doesn't retain the epistolary form of the novel. Jodorowsky's planned adaptation of Dune, maybe the most famous film to never be made, was going to depart significantly from the book.


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## D'wards (Feb 1, 2017)

Crispy said:


> Yeah definitely needs to be two or three films. The book itself is split in 3


It is the new way i suppose - why do it in one film if you can do it in three, thanks Mr Jackson


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## Idaho (Feb 1, 2017)

Reno said:


> Films shouldn't merely be illustrations of books anyway. Films which are too literal an adaptation of a book are usually failures. The film makers will have to find a way to interpret the book in visual, cinematic terms rather than attempting literary devices like endless voiceovers.
> 
> Dangerous Liaisons is an excellent adaptation of Les Liaisons dangereuses and it doesn't retain the epistolary form of the novel. Jodorowsky's planned adaptation of Dune, maybe the most famous film to never be made, was going to depart significantly from the book.


But so much cinema is just "lead actor shows inner angst by tensing jaw"


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## Reno (Feb 1, 2017)

Idaho said:


> But so much cinema is just "lead actor shows inner angst by tensing jaw"


Maybe you just need to watch better films.


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## Idaho (Feb 1, 2017)

Reno said:


> Maybe you just need to watch better films.


I'm getting old. 95% of films either annoy or bore me.

The good films just maul a perfectly coherent story just so they can be more cinematic and expressive.


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## Reno (Feb 1, 2017)

Idaho said:


> I'm getting old. 95% of films either annoy or bore me.
> 
> The good films just maul a perfectly coherent story just so they can be more cinematic and expressive.


Sorry, you just aren't making sense to me. And I'm probably older than you.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 1, 2017)

Uh


Idaho said:


> I'm getting old. 95% of films either annoy or bore me.
> 
> The good films just maul a perfectly coherent story just so they can be more cinematic and expressive.


The very idea! A film? Being cinematic and expressive? How very dare they?


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## Idaho (Feb 1, 2017)

I find that films say more about the language and tradition of cinema than they do about life. I find them quite empty and shallow much of the time. In the case of Dune, you have a detailed and immersive story with numerous themes and ideas. A film will just turn it into a series of "big senes".


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## Orang Utan (Feb 1, 2017)

Idaho said:


> But so much cinema is just "lead actor shows inner angst by tensing jaw"


Is that a bad thing? Isn't that what acting/cinema is about?


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## Reno (Feb 2, 2017)

Idaho said:


> I find that films say more about the language and tradition of cinema than they do about life. I find them quite empty and shallow much of the time. In the case of Dune, you have a detailed and immersive story with numerous themes and ideas. A film will just turn it into a series of "big senes".



That entirely depends on the film makers and Villeneuve currently is one of the more interesting directors working. Film isn't just one thing, no matter how much you like to generalise about it. I didn't think Arrival was empty and shallow and that's an adaptation of an acclaimed science fiction novella. It wasn't about men with "tense jaws" and it wasn't a series of "big scenes", it was low key and thoughtful.


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## Crispy (Nov 16, 2017)

Work has begun, although Denis is trying to take it slow while winding down after BR2049

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...will-nothing-like-david-lynchs-181932933.html

“David Lynch did an adaptation in the ’80s that has some very strong qualities. I mean, David Lynch is one of the best filmmakers alive, I have massive respect for him,” Villeneuve told us during a Facebook Live interview, noting that he was still on his first draft of the screenplay. “But when I saw his adaptation, I was impressed, but it was not what I had dreamed of, so I’m trying to make the adaptation of my dreams.” “It will not have any link with the David Lynch movie,” added Villeneuve, who said he fell in love with the classic novel when he was a teen. “I’m going back to the book, and going to the images that came out when I read it.”


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## Idaho (Nov 16, 2017)

The problem with a film of Dune is that without a lot of explanation, the externally visible action doesn't make any sense. Why is the future full of princes and dukes? Where are the robots and computers? Why are they fighting with knives?

Lynch's answer was to hear the actor's  thoughts and have some strange sound weapons....and not worry that it didn't make sense.


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## TruXta (Nov 16, 2017)

Not everyone needs spoonfeeding.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2017)

Milla Jovovich for Irulan would be nice. Glen Close for Giaus Helen Mohiam. Who do we fancy for Paul and Gurney et al


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## Idaho (Nov 16, 2017)

Paul needs to be short. Gurney needs to be "a hulking brute of a man".


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## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2017)

vincent d'onorio or however you spell his name then


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## TruXta (Nov 16, 2017)

Who plays the Baron?


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## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2017)

gandolfini had the gut but he died on us


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## Gromit (Nov 16, 2017)

Idaho said:


> Paul needs to be short. Gurney needs to be "a hulking brute of a man".


Paul needs to be a 14-15 year old boy for most of it. A child that asks adult questions. 

An excitable playful inquizative child who then suddenly switches into a cold hard calculating mentat-like figure with deeper far reaching concerns as his burden.

Then provide us with an adult Paul later.


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## Gromit (Nov 16, 2017)

TruXta said:


> Who plays the Baron?


Fat Stephen Fry might have managed it but he dieted.


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## Idaho (Nov 16, 2017)

Nicolas Soames for the baron.


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## TruXta (Nov 16, 2017)

BoJo?


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## Gromit (Nov 16, 2017)

I like the Lynch movie but it does has it faults. The Harkonens were panto villains rather than a sinister cunning enemy that wields wealth like a sword 

The mutation of the guild navigators was taken too far. 

The weirding way was swapped from martial arts to sonic weapons. 

Although I did like Paul gaining such mastery of the voice that he could literally kill with a word (rather than metaphorically as in the book).


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## cybershot (Nov 16, 2017)

Bet The Rock ends up in this.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Bet The Rock ends up in this.


he'd make a decent Beast Rabban


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## Idaho (Nov 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> he'd make a decent Beast Rabban


Steven Segal surely?


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## Gromit (Nov 16, 2017)

Bladerunner is losing money. 
The fear is that yes he'll go less cerebral for fear of repeating a lack of financial sucess and gaining a reputation as a director who loses money. 
I hope not but it might. 

Hopefully he'll keep the costs low by losing high budget actors for talented newcomers.


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## SpookyFrank (Nov 16, 2017)

Reiabuzz said:


> Sicario was brilliant. Arrival maybe less so, but not a bad watch. This could be very good.



I found Sicario very nice to look at it but ultimately dull. OK we get it, they're all as bad as each other. For that to be a twist you have to not telegraph it from the very beginning of the movie.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 16, 2017)

Idaho said:


> The problem with a film of Dune is that without a lot of explanation, the externally visible action doesn't make any sense. Why is the future full of princes and dukes? Where are the robots and computers? Why are they fighting with knives?
> 
> Lynch's answer was to hear the actor's  thoughts and have some strange sound weapons....and not worry that it didn't make sense.



Indeed. I enjoyed the film far more once I had read the book as it gave wonderful visuals to stuff that I already knew. Seeing it without that context was a bit


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## Spod (Nov 20, 2017)

This. Herbert is explicit that Paul is a small kid barely into hiis teens. Not a chisel-jawed 6 footer in his mid-twenties like in Lynch's film. That aside I did like what he did with the Harkonnen's, amping their evilness with some physical stuff. Making them all ginger was interesting as well which they werent in the book. 



Gromit said:


> Paul needs to be a 14-15 year old boy for most of it. A child that asks adult questions.
> 
> An excitable playful inquizative child who then suddenly switches into a cold hard calculating mentat-like figure with deeper far reaching concerns as his burden.
> 
> Then provide us with an adult Paul later.


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## butcher (Nov 20, 2017)

At least Lynch gave some decent samples for my old dancing days:


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## DotCommunist (Jan 10, 2019)

https://news.avclub.com/ladies-and-...Marketing&utm_content=Main&utm_source=Twitter


> Denis Villeneuve continues to nail the casting for his upcoming adaptation of Frank Herbert’s sci-fi masterpiece _Dune_, with _THR _reporting that the _Arrival _director has now picked celebrated Swedish actor/tricky keyboard challenge Stellan Skarsgård to play one of the film’s most nastily important baddies, Baron Vladimir Harkonnen. Skarsgård joins a cast that includes Rebecca Ferguson, Dave Bautista, and Timothée Chalamet, playing the novel’s hero, Paul Atreides.


I recon Bautista is Beast Rabban or G Halleck.




thats three acting men with skarsgard or v.similar as a second name I know of ...must check if any are related..


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## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2019)

Stellan Skarsgard as Baron Harkonnen is perfect.
Can see Bautista as Rabban too


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## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> https://news.avclub.com/ladies-and-...Marketing&utm_content=Main&utm_source=Twitter
> 
> I recon Bautista is Beast Rabban or G Halleck.
> 
> ...


stellan and two sons, alexander and bill?


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## DotCommunist (Jan 10, 2019)

' Stellan Skarsgård, an acclaimed Swedish actor, has eight (eight!) children, four of whom are actors.'


Orang Utan said:


> stellan and two sons, alexander and bill?


I'd only heard of Skarsgard snr today, but yes those two,, mostly Alexander for his finest hours in True Blood as eric northman


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## Reno (Jan 10, 2019)

The whole cast for this looks excellent. I couldn't think of two better actors than Timothee Chalamet (Call Me by your Name, Lady Bird) and Rebecca Ferguson (Ilsa Faust in the Mission: Impossible movies) as Paul Atreides and Lady Jessica.


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## TruXta (Jan 10, 2019)

Reno said:


> The whole cast for this looks excellent. I couldn't think of two better actors than Timothee Chalamet (Call Me by your Name, Lady Bird) and Rebecca Ferguson (Ilsa Faust in the Mission: Impossible movies) as Paul Atreides and Lady Jessica.


If they could find a place for Toni Collette that would make me happy. Maybe as the Reverend Mother?


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## Crispy (Jan 10, 2019)

Bautista is confirmed to be playing Rabban. The casting really is good so far. 
I can't remember where I read it, but I think it's also confirmed that the story will be split over two films.

I hope that they 

a) Don't whitewash the Fremen
and
b) Lean hard _into_ the White Saviour trope, so that it can be properly subverted in the sequels (a man can dream).


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## TruXta (Jan 10, 2019)

As long as they don't unnecessarily pad out the story I can live with two films.


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## Reno (Jan 10, 2019)

TruXta said:


> As long as they don't unnecessarily pad out the story I can live with two films.


The main problem with the David Lynch movie was that after a great set-up, it rushed through way too much plot in the second half. New characters kept being introduced and given no time to develop or to have any impact. This needs two movies.


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## Crispy (Jan 10, 2019)

Reno said:


> This needs two movies


Ah but where do you split it?


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## Reno (Jan 10, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Ah but where do you split it?


Somewhere around the middle.


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## trabuquera (Jan 10, 2019)

Reno said:


> I couldn't think of two better actors than Timothee Chalamet (Call Me by your Name, Lady Bird) and Rebecca Ferguson (Ilsa Faust in the Mission: Impossible movies) as Paul Atreides and Lady Jessica.



Erm... except that she's only 12 years older than he is (and fresh faced with it), yet playing his mother? Or is that a bit of the books (dynastic use of prepubescent/perupubescent concubines) I've forgotten about?

They're both good actors I agree - and this surely isn't the only example of Hollywood wanting "older women, but not OLD WOMEN if you know what we mean" - but honestly. Really. The age gap between grumpy old male leading men and ever-youthful leading ladies is bad enough but being relegated to "mom roles" the very second they're no longer dewy fresh is perhaps even worse. There is female life between 25 and 55 - even for non-mothers!

Never had much time for Francesca Annis as an actor but I thought she carried off the 'former sexpot, turned noble lady' rather well in the former film version.


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## Crispy (Jan 10, 2019)

Reno said:


> Somewhere around the middle.


In terms of book pages, that's about when Paul & Jessica flee the palace in the ornithopter. That'd leave a lot of the fun stuff for the 2nd film...


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## Idaho (Jan 10, 2019)

I'm happy to be entertained by this, but don't expect too much. I just don't think the story lends itself to film.


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## Reno (Jan 10, 2019)

trabuquera said:


> Erm... except that she's only 12 years older than he is (and fresh faced with it), yet playing his mother? Or is that a bit of the books (dynastic use of prepubescent/perupubescent concubines) I've forgotten about?
> 
> They're both good actors I agree - and this surely isn't the only example of Hollywood wanting "older women, but not OLD WOMEN if you know what we mean" - but honestly. Really. The age gap between grumpy old male leading men and ever-youthful leading ladies is bad enough but being relegated to "mom roles" the very second they're no longer dewy fresh is perhaps even worse. There is female life between 25 and 55 - even for non-mothers!
> 
> Never had much time for Francesca Annis as an actor but I thought she carried off the 'former sexpot, turned noble lady' rather well in the former film version.


Paul is 15 years old in Dune and no doubt one reason Chalamet got cast is because he looks young enough that he mostly gets cast in teenage roles. It also helps that he's probably the most acclaimed male actor of his age and he has to mature in the film. Lady Jessica is 36 and Ferguson is only one year younger.


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## Idaho (Jan 10, 2019)

Also Jessica will look more youthful due to bene gesserit training and melange use.


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## trabuquera (Jan 10, 2019)

not due to 21st century earth male supremacy in Hollywood then, ok ....


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## Reno (Jan 10, 2019)

trabuquera said:


> not due to 21st century earth male supremacy in Hollywood then, ok ....



You are mixing this up with the specific issue of ageing male stars demanding on-screen love interests who could be their daughters due to their vanity. That doesn't apply here because the two lead characters are a mother and son. Nicole Kidman, Jamie Lee Curtis, Glenn Close, Sandra Bullock, Sigourny Weaver, Viola Davis, Meryl Streep, Annette Bening, Michelle Pfeiffer and Julianne Moore are still getting plenty of work. Villeneuve simply cast an actress who is the age of her character.


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## ferrelhadley (Jan 10, 2019)

I wonder how faithful they will stay to the religious elements in the book.
Having someone turn themselves into a demigod on a religion that takes huge chunks out of Islam may not fly under the radar today as it did in the 80s.


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## trabuquera (Jan 10, 2019)

Reno said:


> You are mixing this up with the specific issue of ageing male stars demanding on-screen love interests who could be their daughters due to their vanity. That doesn't apply here because the two lead characters are a mother and son. [...]   Villeneuve simply cast an actress who is the age of her character.



I'm not "mixing it up" with the perennial problem of old men/young women mismatches on screen - I am pointing out that the persistent casting of not-very-old actresses as the MOTHERS of characters played by not-much-younger actors, is another facet of generalised sexism in films. Villeneuve cast 'an actress who is the age of her character' -  fair enough - but somehow not 'an actor who is the age of HIS character'. See? 

Of course Chalamet looks younger than his chronological age (and so does Ferguson in fact!) - and I take your point about needing an actor for the Paul role who looks young but has the acting skills to deal with the job, and to age up as the film progresses. But what I am arguing here is that casting an actress 12 years older than the actor playing HER SON,  is that it's another aspect of THE SAME SEXISM. But I do hope to see and enjoy the film all the same.


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## ferrelhadley (Jan 10, 2019)

trabuquera said:


> Erm... except that she's only 12 years older than he is (and fresh faced with it), yet playing his mother.


Jessica Atreides born 10154 AG
Paul Atreides born 10175 AG
The events of Dune 10191 AG (well the move to Arrakis when much of this happens)
That would make her 37.
The actor playing the role is 35.
But at least we are getting the outrage in early.


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## Reno (Jan 10, 2019)

trabuquera said:


> I'm not "mixing it up" with the perennial problem of old men/young women mismatches on screen - I am pointing out that the persistent casting of not-very-old actresses as the MOTHERS of characters played by not-much-younger actors, is another facet of generalised sexism in films. Villeneuve cast 'an actress who is the age of her character' -  fair enough - but somehow not 'an actor who is the age of HIS character'. See?
> 
> Of course Chalamet looks younger than his chronological age (and so does Ferguson in fact!) - and I take your point about needing an actor for the Paul role who looks young but has the acting skills to deal with the job, and to age up as the film progresses. But what I am arguing here is that casting an actress 12 years older than the actor playing HER SON,  is that it's another aspect of THE SAME SEXISM. But I do hope to see and enjoy the film all the same.


One complaint by older actresses has long been that they keep getting offered nothing but mother roles once they get older, when they could be playing the love interest of those ageing male stars who demand far younger actresses at their side.

When actresses play the mothers of adult children, these days they will mostly be of the right age. It happens here and there, when an actor just feels right for the role but there isn't a persistent problem of sexism with casting mothers as you claim. Look at all the mother roles the actresses in their 50s and 60s, who I've listed above, play.

Teenagers however will often get cast with young looking actors in their 20s because it's actually quite hard to find real teenage actors who have the emotional maturity to play a complex lead character and carry a movie. There also are child labour laws which prohibit minors from working more than a certain amount of hours a day which also makes it more practical to cast older actors.

I'm not saying that there isn't a huge problem with sexism in Hollywood, but you've got it the wrong way round in this case.


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## trabuquera (Jan 10, 2019)

Well, I disagree, but in a very civilised way. Let's call a (Fremen?) truce and see how the movie turns out.


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 10, 2019)

Reno said:


> The whole cast for this looks excellent. I couldn't think of two better actors than Timothee Chalamet (Call Me by your Name, Lady Bird) and Rebecca Ferguson (Ilsa Faust in the Mission: Impossible movies) as Paul Atreides and Lady Jessica.



No. That's not how you spell Timothy. No. Unacceptable.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 10, 2019)

Crispy said:


> In terms of book pages, that's about when Paul & Jessica flee the palace in the ornithopter. That'd leave a lot of the fun stuff for the 2nd film...



perhaps stop it where paul first summons and rides a worm. Theres been quite an uncovered passage of time by then iirc, child leto born. That way we get the chani meet and the knife fight with jamis etc, the meeting of jessica and the rev moth embedded with the fremen as part of some long schemes. 

Eh, who knows.


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## Idaho (Jan 10, 2019)

The natural break, if you stick with the book chronology, would be when Paul refuses to call out stilgar and becomes leader of the fremen and not head of sietch tabr.


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## Reno (Jan 10, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> No. That's not how you spell Timothy. No. Unacceptable.


He's half French and it's a common French name. The surname might have been a clue.


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## ferrelhadley (Jan 10, 2019)

Its set totally around Paul Atreides character arch, his growth from boy to man to GOD. 
The first film will have to do the heavy lifting of world building, introduce the characters and their antagonisms. Your bog standard world building we now all know well. 


Spoiler



Also the growth of Paul has to show his weaknesses and vulnerabilities while hinting at what awaits him (Gom Jabbar and yet getting kicked by Gurney). 
Then the antagonists (the Harkonen) start to be revealed and he will have obstacles both internal (is his mother a traitor?) and external (the Harkonen spies) to over come. 
Then we find ourselves at the big set piece grand finale to episode one where our heroes are at their lowest point, the attack on Arrakis, the escape then the loss of the safety of the Keynes. 

Now for the second part you are in a tonally different world of Paul the Fremen where he grows from pampered prince into young warrior, leader and all round bad ass. You then have a lot of space for the resolution to play out at something other than breakneck speed.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 29, 2019)

Oscar Isaacs as the Duke.  Good casting, looks like.

Oscar Isaac in Talks to Join Timothee Chalamet in ‘Dune’ Reboot


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## Crispy (Jan 29, 2019)

Please do well enough for the second part to be made. Please please please.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 31, 2019)

they've got someone called Zendaya in for Chani. I don't know her music or screen stuff but on a google search the image looks right. Same with Paul tbf, never heard of him before now


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## Crispy (Feb 1, 2019)

They're coming thick and fast now. 
Javier Bardem for Stilgar.


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## TruXta (Feb 1, 2019)

Crispy said:


> They're coming thick and fast now.
> Javier Bardem for Stilgar.


Interesting...


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## Idaho (Feb 1, 2019)

If its really good and popular, everyone will think I'm some kind of kiddie fan boy who has picked my name from a semi obscure character in the first film 


Although in fairness that is what I *was* 25 years ago when I picked the username.


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## TruXta (Feb 1, 2019)

Idaho said:


> If its really good and popular, everyone will think I'm some kind of kiddie fan boy who has picked my name from a semi obscure character in the first film
> 
> 
> Although in fairness that is what I *was* 25 years ago when I picked the username.


Not the wildly more well known US state?


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## Idaho (Feb 1, 2019)

TruXta said:


> Not the wildly more well known US state?


It's only ever been Americans who've thought that... And then only when a reveal that I'm English.


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## DexterTCN (Feb 1, 2019)

Zendaya looks like being Chani.

I'll...er...just put this here just in case.

Zendaya - IMDb

e2a...just saw the previous zendaya post...watching Parcs and Rec whilst posting...yada yada


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## treefrog (Feb 1, 2019)

Holy shit this casting is out of sight.

I discovered this excellent little podcast episode that looks at the use of Islam in Dune. Really interesting perspectives on the White Savior trope, cultural appropriation/appreciation. Well worth half an hour.

The Book of Dune


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## TruXta (Feb 1, 2019)

Everyone is a bit too good looking, but it's Hollywood, wtf did I expect.


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## DexterTCN (Feb 1, 2019)

Hollywood?  It's Villeneuve.

Have you seen Prisoners?   Arrival?

It's not going to be Hollywood.

This guy did a proper follow-up to BladeRunner.


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## TruXta (Feb 1, 2019)

He's the director. It's Legendary producing, so yes, Hollywood.


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## TruXta (Feb 1, 2019)

And yes, what I've seen of his movies I've generally enjoyed.


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## Gromit (Feb 1, 2019)

treefrog said:


> Holy shit this casting is out of sight.
> 
> I discovered this excellent little podcast episode that looks at the use of Islam in Dune. Really interesting perspectives on the White Savior trope, cultural appropriation/appreciation. Well worth half an hour.
> 
> The Book of Dune


I've always seen the fremen as Arabic Moslem types. Not surprised if modern casting drops that for shameless popularity reasons.

I don't know what their perspective on the trope is but in the books it's pretty much acknowledged that the fremen are being used by Paul  with their religious belief (manipulated by the Bene Ges) the lever. But as much as it is a tool it's also a runaway freight train that has a life of its own.


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## DexterTCN (Feb 1, 2019)

TruXta said:


> And yes, what I've seen of his movies I've generally enjoyed.


Ok so you've not seen Prisoners. 

Anyway, really looking forward to this.


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## Crispy (Feb 1, 2019)

He's also said in interviews that he learned from BR 2049 that he has to have a more commercial sensibility for Dune. sSta Wars For Grownups I think we're his words.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 1, 2019)

if its wildly successful then I hope for a Pandora Sequence/Destination Void series. A man can dream.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 1, 2019)

DexterTCN said:


> Ok so you've not seen Prisoners.
> 
> Anyway, really looking forward to this.


No. I've seen Sicario, Arrival and Bladerunner. For me  Arrival was the best out of the three.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 1, 2019)

TruXta said:


> No. I've seen Sicario, Arrival and Bladerunner. For me  Arrival was the best out of the three.


BR is my favourite because BR.

But...Arrival is a masterpiece, I'll not argue with anyone who rates it higher.

Prisoners is on netflix.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 1, 2019)

DexterTCN said:


> BR is my favourite because BR.
> 
> But...Arrival is a masterpiece, I'll not argue with anyone who rates it higher.
> 
> Prisoners is on netflix.


I might rewatch Bladerunner, but at the time I thought it was too long and ponderous.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 1, 2019)

It was made for fans, really.  

Prisoners will open your eyes to his abilites though.  I'm not saying that just because you haven't seen it.  I hadn't seen it, then I saw it.   There are...well there's a plot point I don't like but apart from that...fuckin hell.   That guy directed BR and Arrival and Sicario....this'll drop your jaw...and he looks like Christopher Lambert in Highlander.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 1, 2019)

I am a fan of the original


----------



## Badgers (Feb 2, 2019)

Which 'Arrival' do i need to get?


----------



## BigTom (Feb 2, 2019)

The one on the left.
(Arrival is on Netflix along with prisoners)


----------



## Crispy (Feb 14, 2019)

Jason Momoa for Duncan Idaho, apparently


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 14, 2019)

Will Sting be in this one?


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 15, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Will Sting be in this one?



Yup


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 16, 2019)

November 2020

Warner Bros. Dates ‘Dune’ For November 2020 & More


----------



## Badgers (Feb 16, 2019)

DexterTCN said:


> November 2020
> 
> Warner Bros. Dates ‘Dune’ For November 2020 & More


Too long to wait  it had better be worth it


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 16, 2019)

Badgers said:


> Too long to wait  it had better be worth it


imax or 3d?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 18, 2019)

Filming starts today in Budapest.
Hans Zimmer is doing the score.
Chang Chen (the desert bandit from Crouching Tiger) is cast as Yueh.
Still waiting on casting for the Emperor, Thufir and Kynes.


----------



## Reno (Mar 18, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> imax or 3d?


Both


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 18, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Thufir


Needs someone with massive eyebrows


----------



## Tankus (Mar 18, 2019)

Dennis Healy would have nailed it  ..maybe they could dig him up ?


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 18, 2019)

Stephen Mckinlay Henderson has been cast but dunno who as, could be any of those three.


----------



## Idaho (Mar 18, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> Needs someone with massive eyebrows


I didn't really like the lynch mentats. There is no reason why they should be bumbling hairy things. Thufir is the master of assassins. He should be physically fairly daunting.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 19, 2019)

Dune 1984 vs Dune 2020: Who's Playing Who in the Remake!


----------



## Idaho (Apr 11, 2019)

This is entertaining. At least I thought so.


----------



## Idaho (Oct 28, 2019)

What the hell are they talking about?

'Dune' Actress Rebecca Ferguson Says Denis Villeneuve Has Given Her Character "Empowerment & Powerful Moments" Not Seen In The Novel



> For those that aren’t aware of the story, Jessica is a Bene Gesserit woman that is also the mother of lead character Paul Atreides and the concubine for Duke Leto. And given that description, you can probably see why Villeneuve might be interested in giving Jessica a bit more agency and empowerment than Frank Herbert did in his novel



The Bene Gesserit are the toughest and smartest people in the dune universe! In fact they are so far ahead of everyone else that they dumb it down to avoid attention. Jessica could beat the crap out of any of the main characters in the book. I have no idea why they are suggesting otherwise in this interview.


----------



## donkyboy (Oct 28, 2019)

need trailer for dis


----------



## Crispy (Apr 14, 2020)

FIrst press photos from set (so not stills from the film, and with no effects)









						Behold Dune: A New Look at Timothée Chalamet, Zendaya, and More
					

Feuding royals. A deadly planet. Before Star Wars or Game of Thrones, there was this legendary story.




					www.vanityfair.com
				




Also note Kynes is a woman in this version, played by Sharon Duncan-Brewster

Zendaya as Chani:


House Atreides:


Villeneuve and Javier Bardem as Stilgar


Josh Brolin as Halleck:

Rebecca Ferguson as Lady Jessica  :

Oscar Isaacs as Duke Leto

Jason Momoa as Duncan Idaho:

Sharon Duncan-Brewster as Liet Kynes

Timothée Chalamet as Paul and Rebecca Ferguson as Jessica


----------



## lefteri (Apr 14, 2020)

Crispy said:


> FIrst press photos from set (so not stills from the film, and with no effects)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looks promising, still think it would have been better as a series though


----------



## Idaho (Apr 14, 2020)

The problem with the visual medium... None of them wearing full hoods and masks. No fremen would be in the open losing that much moisture.


----------



## Reno (Apr 14, 2020)

Idaho said:


> The problem with the visual medium... None of them wearing full hoods and masks. No fremen would be in the open losing that much moisture.


I bet they don’t wear hoods and masks because these are press photos and obviously they want to show off the cast.


----------



## Reno (Apr 14, 2020)

lefteri said:


> looks promising, still think it would have been better as a series though


It’s planned as two fairly long films, which will be the same length as a mini-series would be but a series wouldn’t get as large a budget.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 14, 2020)

The rumoured split is at the time jump, after Jessica drinks the water. That leaves the second film rather thin for plot, so my hunch is that they're putting Messiah into the 2nd film, which has a much more satisfying ending for Paul.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2020)

Crispy said:


> my hunch is that they're putting Messiah into the 2nd film, which has a much more satisfying ending for Paul.


I always said it belonged in the same volume, its an epilogue grown longer than a novella.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2020)

I'm sold on most of the looks here, Halleck (wheres the inkvine scar tho), Jessica and Idaho stand out as particularly fitting on his brief look.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 14, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm sold on most of the looks here, Halleck (wheres the inkvine scar tho), Jessica and Idaho stand out as particularly fitting on his brief look.


----------



## Santino (Apr 14, 2020)

I don't know enough about Chalamet to know whether he can act enough to carry this off.


----------



## Reno (Apr 14, 2020)

Santino said:


> I don't know enough about Chalamet to know whether he can act enough to carry this off.



He's been great in everything I’ve seen him in. I’d say some of the roles he got cast in would be more challenging than this and he’s handled those to great acclaim. Him and Rebecca Ferguson in the leads is what has me the most excited about this.


----------



## Reno (Apr 14, 2020)

I‘m not that sold on the stills yet, the armour reminds me of Verhoeven’s Starship Troopers and there is more of a utilitarian, militaristic look than I would have expected. For all its flaws, I loved the art direction and costumes of the David Lynch movie. This looks like it’s taking a more grounded, less fantastical approach.


----------



## lefteri (Apr 14, 2020)

Reno said:


> I‘m not that sold on the stills yet, the armour reminds me of Verhoeven’s Starship Troopers and there is more of a utilitarian, militaristic look than I would have expected. For all its flaws, I loved the art direction and costumes of the David Lynch movie. This looks like it’s taking a more grounded, less fantastical approach.



i agree, that was my first reaction to the armour too - not enough otherness

the lynch costumes veered a little into camp for my liking with the legendary codpiece for instance


----------



## Reno (Apr 14, 2020)

lefteri said:


> i agree, that was my first reaction to the armour too - not enough otherness
> 
> the lynch costumes veered a little into camp for my liking with the legendary codpiece for instance


Sting was a mistake full-stop (when is he not ?) and the codpiece was a prop more than what I would call a costume. The steampunk-Elizabethan look of the general costume design was gorgeous though and I don't think it was camp.


----------



## donkyboy (Apr 14, 2020)

Im confident about this. Really liked Blade Runner and wished it had a longer run time. Perfect director for this film


----------



## ska invita (Apr 17, 2020)




----------



## Crispy (Aug 27, 2020)

There's a teaser trailer playing in front of TENET. No potato-cam version yet but here's some stills:


----------



## Crispy (Aug 29, 2020)

There is now a potato cam version floating around on twitter, but the quality is so horrible I won't link it here. It's literally just the images you see above, but moving a little bit, while Mohaim tells Paul that the box has pain in it. A trailer for a trailer.


----------



## Reno (Aug 30, 2020)

Weird how trailers now have become this major event themselves, with release dates, much social media excitement and exclusive access, etc. It's just a bloody commercial for the film.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 30, 2020)

Works on me


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 30, 2020)

I remain skeptical about this. Would like to be proved wrong but I can’t see how they’ll do it justice even over a couple of long films. 

I’m sure it will look very pretty but, meh, what doesn’t nowadays?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2020)




----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2020)

Crispy said:


>


----------



## Reno (Sep 9, 2020)

Looks alright. For all it's flaws as a film, I still prefer the futuristic baroque look of the Lynch version. Its the only reference I have for Dune as the story never appealed to me enough to read the book. Never been a fan of stories about "the one"


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2020)

Nick Cohen appears to be playing The Beast


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2020)

Reno said:


> Looks alright. For all it's flaws as a film, I still prefer the futuristic baroque look of the Lynch version. Its the only reference I have for Dune as the story never appealed to me enough to read the book. Never been a fan of stories about "the one"


The story as a whole (the second book was supposed to be the coda of the first, which is why it's so short) turns that trope on its head. Paul is "the one" but what does that mean for humanity and what is the cost?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 9, 2020)

Reno said:


> Looks alright. For all it's flaws as a film, I still prefer the futuristic baroque look of the Lynch version. Its the only reference I have for Dune as the story never appealed to me enough to read the book. Never been a fan of stories about "the one"



Doesn't look half as visually interesting as Lynch's version.


----------



## killer b (Sep 9, 2020)

That Pink Floyd cover is revolting, and makes the trailer strongly reminiscent of a goth-sci-fi John Lewis christmas advert.


----------



## Reno (Sep 9, 2020)

If they still release this in December and it doesn't make a ton of money due to Covid 19, we'll never get the second film which covers the second half of the book.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 9, 2020)

Reno said:


> If they still release this in December and it doesn't make a ton of money due to Covid 19, we'll never get the second film which covers the second half of the book.


One of the reasons why LoTRs was so good is that some brave fucker said fuck it! let’s green light all three fucking films and just push right through come hell or high water.

I’d love for them to do this with Dune but that was a massive one off in film history.

Im disappointed with Charlotte Rampling. I thought she could slam dunk this role but she has all the delivery and menace of a wet dish cloth in that trailer. If the director can’t get an epic performance out of her then I’m worried.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 9, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Doesn't look half as visually interesting as Lynch's version.


Visually the Lynch Dune probably made a greater impression on me than any other film. I can still picture a lot of it sitting in the cinema I first saw it in. This looks a bit cold.


----------



## Reno (Sep 9, 2020)

Gromit said:


> One of the reasons why LoTRs was so good is that some brave fucker said ck it! let’s green light all three fucking films and just push right through come hell or high water.
> 
> I’d love for them to do this with Dune but that was a massive one off in film history.
> 
> Im disappointed with Charlotte Rampling. I thought she could slam dunk this role but she has all the delivery and menace of a wet dish cloth in that trailer. If the director can’t get an epic performance out of her then I’m worried.


Rampling is fine, she's just stuck in a fishing net, which wouldn't do anybody any favours.

Neither Dune nor Villeneuve are a sure bet. Villeuve's previous film was a big budget sequel to an 80s sci-fi blockbuster which initially was a flop, which then also ended up being a flop. Dune is a remake of an 80s sci-fi blockbuster which was a flop. I can see why they are playing it safe.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 9, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I remain skeptical about this. Would like to be proved wrong but I can’t see how they’ll do it justice even over a couple of long films.
> 
> I’m sure it will look very pretty but, meh, what doesn’t nowadays?


Try other things by the same director.

Prisoners, Arrival, Sicario.  Villeneuve can tell stories.


----------



## Reno (Sep 9, 2020)

DexterTCN said:


> Try other things by the same director.
> 
> Prisoners, Arrival, Sicario.  Villeneuve can tell stories.


I think his best film Polytechnique, one of his early Canadian films. I wasn't a huge fan of Prisoners or Sicario but I liked Arrival. For me the jury is still out on him, I'm not in the camp which already regards him as a visionary genius.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 9, 2020)

Crispy said:


> The story as a whole (the second book was supposed to be the coda of the first, which is why it's so short) turns that trope on its head. Paul is "the one" but what does that mean for humanity and what is the cost?


Yep. The entire series is meant to be about the disaster of personality politics and hereditary power. Inspired partly by the Kennedys.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 9, 2020)

Idaho said:


> Yep. The entire series is meant to be about the disaster of personality politics and hereditary power. Inspired partly by the Kennedys.


He said Kennedy was dangerous as the public gave him god like power when he’s just a human and that Nixon did us a favour in reminding us that a lone human shouldn’t be trusted with ultimate power.

Man he’d be pissed about Trump. Lesson wasn’t learned after all.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 9, 2020)

Crispy said:


>



I didn't listen to the sound, but the visuals seemed good.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 9, 2020)

well I'm hyped fot this


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 9, 2020)

I don't think I'll get to see this at the cinema because of rona, annoying.


----------



## Cid (Sep 9, 2020)

Idaho said:


> I didn't listen to the sound, but the visuals seemed good.



'good'

Damned by faint praise there.


----------



## Winot (Sep 9, 2020)

What struck me is how similar many of the scenes in the trailer are to scenes in the Lynch film.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 9, 2020)

They're quite similar to the book too 😃


----------



## Winot (Sep 10, 2020)

PursuedByBears said:


> They're quite similar to the book too 😃



Sure - but this trailer makes it look like a remake.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 10, 2020)

No sting in shiny underpants in the trailer mind


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 10, 2020)

Chalamet just looks like he's about to wander off and join a boyband at any moment.


----------



## Reno (Sep 10, 2020)

Winot said:


> Sure - but this trailer makes it look like a remake.


There also is a trailer for a new adaptation of Daphne du Maurier's Rebecca out and much of it will remind you of the 1940 Hitchcock movie if you've seen that. New adaptations of books can't help but be remakes of previous adaptation. In terms of design, this new Dune looks very different from the Lynch film though.

Seing this trailer makes me wish more than ever that Lynch had gotten to make the film he had planned. After screening an early rough cut of Dune for the studio, they demanded he delivers a two hour movie when he'd been shooting a three hour film. That's why the second half is such a mess and Lynch subsequently disowned the film.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 10, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Chalamet just looks like he's about to wander off and join a boyband at any moment.



Whats Paul's character like in the books? From the trailer there Timothée Chalamet seems a bit unlikeable rich boy to me - which maybe suits the story if thats the young prince vibe?


----------



## Reno (Sep 10, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Whats Paul's character like in the books? From the trailer there Timothée Chalamet seems a bit unlikeable rich boy to me - which maybe suits the story if thats the young prince vibe?


That's the point, he's aristocracy.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 10, 2020)

Reno said:


> Yup, that's the point, he's aristocracy.


yeah but I dont remember getting quite that unlikable aristocracy vibe from Kyle MacLachlan - he was still young princey without being offputting somehow.


----------



## Reno (Sep 10, 2020)

ska invita said:


> yeah but I dont remember getting quite that unlikable aristocracy vibe from Kyle MacLachlan - he was still young princey without being offputting somehow.


I don't see how you get that from the trailer. Something which does happen is that when an young actor who is uncommonly beautiful (not ruggedly handsome, but beautiful) gets cast in a blockbuster, they get a lot of push back, mostly from heterosexual men.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 10, 2020)

Reno said:


> I don't see how you get that from the trailer. Something which does happen is that when an young actor who is uncommonly beautiful (not ruggedly handsome, but beautiful) gets cast in a blockbuster, they get a lot of push back, mostly from heterosexual men.



its not his beauty that puts me off, its his moneyed life of aristocratic leisure, the airs and comforts of which come across strongly!  for some reason the trailer made me want to see him suffer


----------



## Badgers (Sep 10, 2020)

Reno said:


> Looks alright. For all it's flaws as a film, I still prefer the futuristic baroque look of the Lynch version. Its the only reference I have for Dune as the story never appealed to me enough to read the book. Never been a fan of stories about "the one"


Hard to call it from a trailer. I have always been a fan of the Lynch version too. It has flaws (from the book) but I love the look and style of it. Will certainly be watching the new one!


----------



## Reno (Sep 10, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Hard to call it from a trailer. I have always been a fan of the Lynch version too. It has flaws (from the book) but I love the look and style of it. Will certainly be watching the new one!


I'm fairly certain that the Lynch film would have been a lot better, had the studio not fucked it up.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 10, 2020)

CGI better than the 2000 tv movie  series at least


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2020)




----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 11, 2020)

Reno said:


> I‘m not that sold on the stills yet, the armour reminds me of Verhoeven’s Starship Troopers and there is more of a utilitarian, militaristic look than I would have expected. For all its flaws, I loved the art direction and costumes of the David Lynch movie. This looks like it’s taking a more grounded, less fantastical approach.



I don't agree, look at this new still they've released:


----------



## Reno (Sep 11, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> I don't agree, look at this new still they've released:
> 
> View attachment 229909


Isn't that basically the same joke as the one in the post before ?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 11, 2020)

Reno said:


> Isn't that basically the same joke as the one in the post before ?


C'mon, it's Friday.

On the book btw, it is a classic bit of sci-fi.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 11, 2020)

It looks so dull


----------



## Sue (Sep 11, 2020)

Reno said:


> I don't see how you get that from the trailer. Something which does happen is that when an young actor who is uncommonly beautiful (not ruggedly handsome, but beautiful) gets cast in a blockbuster, they get a lot of push back, mostly from heterosexual men.


Hmm, I wouldn't say Timothee Chalmat is uncommonly beautiful. In fact, I think he's very average but each to their own...


----------



## Reno (Sep 11, 2020)

Sue said:


> Hmm, I wouldn't say Timothee Chalmat is uncommonly beautiful. In fact, I think he's very average but each to their own...


Google his name + heartthrob and look at the rapturous articles. Whatever ones personal preferences, I'd say that those cheekbones, Bambi eyes,  floppy hair and his androgyny all conform to current standards of beauty, be that men or women. He's not my thing either but I can see why he's considered to be a dreamboat.









						Timothée Chalamet Is The Heartthrob We Need
					

In a time when women are grappling with men's failings, it's comforting to dream of a Chalamet-filled future.




					www.huffingtonpost.co.uk


----------



## agricola (Sep 11, 2020)

Reno said:


> Google his name + heartthrob and look at the rapturous articles. Whatever ones personal preferences, I'd say that those cheekbones, Bambi eyes,  floppy hair and his androgyny all conform to current standards of beauty, be that men or women. He's not my thing either but I can see why he's considered to be a dreamboat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only thing I've seen him in is "The King" on Netflix, which is an absolutely awful film.   However he did in the 20-30 minutes of that film look more like the real Henry V (spoilt, pouty and with a killer's eyes) than any actor I've ever seen play that role.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 11, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Whats Paul's character like in the books? From the trailer there Timothée Chalamet seems a bit unlikeable rich boy to me - which maybe suits the story if thats the young prince vibe?


In the book the atreides are the loyal leaders of the people. The kindly despots. Although they become much more murderous than anyone before them.


ska invita said:


> its not his beauty that puts me off, its his moneyed life of aristocratic leisure, the airs and comforts of which come across strongly!  for some reason the trailer made me want to see him suffer


Oh rest assured that Paul suffers plenty!


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 11, 2020)

Reno said:


> There also is a trailer for a new adaptation of Daphne du Maurier's Rebecca out and much of it will remind you of the 1940 Hitchcock movie if you've seen that. New adaptations of books can't help but be remakes of previous adaptation. In terms of design, this new Dune looks very different from the Lynch film though.
> 
> Seing this trailer makes me wish more than ever that Lynch had gotten to make the film he had planned. After screening an early rough cut of Dune for the studio, they demanded he delivers a two hour movie when he'd been shooting a three hour film. That's why the second half is such a mess and Lynch subsequently disowned the film.



There's a longer version of Lynch's Dune though? I'm sure I even have it somewhere.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 11, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> There's a longer version of Lynch's Dune though? I'm sure I even have it somewhere.


There was a TV version that was Alan Smitheed by Lynch.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 11, 2020)

fishfinger said:


> There was a TV version that was Alan Smitheed by Lynch.



Ah, that'll be the one.  I think I have a disk of this that was given away with The Observer.  Or is it the proper film?  Will need to dig it out...


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 11, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Ah, that'll be the one.  I think I have a disk of this that was given away with The Observer.  Or is it the proper film?  Will need to dig it out...


It's the film with a lot of storyboard images and narration to pad it out.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 11, 2020)

Reno said:


> Isn't that basically the same joke as the one in the post before ?



Dunno, reckon this new joke looks very different from the previous joke, though.


----------



## Reno (Sep 11, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> There's a longer version of Lynch's Dune though? I'm sure I even have it somewhere.


The extended cut was put together by some hack and it looks amateurish. It's also pan&scan to fit the then tv format of 4:3, which means almost half the frame is missing. Lynch was approached with doing a longer cut for TV but they weren't going to pay him, so he turned them down.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 11, 2020)

There's a fan edit that takes deleted scenes, the Smithee version and the original and makes a pretty decent job of splicing it all together.

Available via magnet torrent link here








						Dune: The Complete Saga
					

Platform for author Michael Adam Warren to share his work and opinion of genre books, films, and TV shows. Emphasis on David Lynch's "Twin Peaks."




					www.blueroseepics.com
				




It's been a while since I watched it, but there's all sorts of interesting stuff:



> Following is a comprehensive list of changes based on the two officially released versions of DUNE – the Theatrical Edition and the Extended Edition.
> 
> ADDITIONS
> 
> ...


----------



## Reno (Sep 12, 2020)

Winot said:


> What struck me is how similar many of the scenes in the trailer are to scenes in the Lynch film.



Someone did a side-by-side comparison between the trailer and the 1984 film:



In terms of the way it looks, I definitely prefer Lynch.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 12, 2020)

Reno said:


> Someone did a side-by-side comparison between the trailer and the 1984 film:
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of the way it looks, I definitely prefer Lynch.




Doesn't look any better for being made ~35 years later.  Also anyone getting overly excited about this probably hasn't seen Blade Runner 2049, a total borefest if ever there was one.


----------



## Reno (Sep 12, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Doesn't look any better for being made ~35 years later.  Also anyone getting overly excited about this probably hasn't seen Blade Runner 2049, a total borefest if ever there was one.


I didn't hate Blade Runner 2049 but it's not a patch on the original of course. In terms of design Villeneuve's changes were similar to those of his Dune. The Blade Runner sequel looked a lot more minimalist than the original, interiors looked spare and contemporary. Ridley Scott's Blade Runner is crammed full with details, which is what makes that world so convincing. I never tire looking at that film. Similarly Lynch's Dune looks so rich in comparison to the new one, which could be a tv series. It may still work, I have been wrong about trailers before.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 12, 2020)

I know a few people creaming their pants over the new Dune, but I think they're fans of the book who feel Lynch messed up badly.


----------



## Reno (Sep 12, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I know a few people creaming their pants over the new Dune, but I think they're fans of the book who feel Lynch messed up badly.


Which is unfair, because it was the studio who messed up Lynch's film.

Villeneuve already is considered this visionary genius by fanboy types because his films are humourless and solemn, bordering on the ponderous. Many people mistake that for having depth. People who think Christopher Nolan is the bees knees also often love Villeneuve. He's made some good films but I also find Villeneuve a little overrated.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 12, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I know a few people creaming their pants over the new Dune, but I think they're fans of the book who feel Lynch messed up badly.


I'm likely the biggest dune nerd on urban, and I am pretty fond of the lynch film. It dealt well with the reflective internal voice that is such a feature of the books. I'm guessing all that detail will be dealt with in this version by moody staring and flexing of jaw muscles, combined with some mammoth visual scene of big ships or sandworms.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 12, 2020)

Reno said:


> Which is unfair, because it was the studio who messed up Lynch's film.
> 
> Villeneuve already is considered this visionary genius by fanboy types because his films are humourless and solemn, bordering on the ponderous. Many people mistake that for having depth. People who think Christopher Nolan is the bees knees also often love Villeneuve. He's made some good films but I also find Villeneuve a little overrated.


Yeah, impressive yet dull.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 13, 2020)

I would stick up for Villeneuve. I kind of agree with the criticisms, Blade Runner and Arrival are slow, and empty. I appreciate the David Lynch idea of making everything very slow, but David Lynch films are incredibly dense whereas Villeneuve it feels like he is taking time over nothing. But I stick up for it because this is a criticism of something that I like. There really are not many people who can do ambitious and intelligent films, not even because of the system, just because it's incredibly difficult. 
I find it way less dull than Avengers or Sentimental American.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 13, 2020)

I quiet liked Blade Runner 2049 but it didn't really do much did it? You could have cut the entire Harrison Ford arc out as well. 

This looks like it is really just going to have a lot of troubled looking into the distance while Big Events happen in the distance.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 13, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> I quiet liked Blade Runner 2049 but it didn't really do much did it? You could have cut the entire Harrison Ford arc out as well.
> 
> This looks like it is really just going to have a lot of troubled looking into the distance while Big Events happen in the distance.



I have seen it about 5 times and still don't really get the point. It took me about 3 times to see the original and get the point, but I think it's just about being allowed to live in a different world for a short time.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 13, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I would stick up for Villeneuve. I kind of agree with the criticisms, Blade Runner and Arrival are slow, and empty. I appreciate the David Lynch idea of making everything very slow, but David Lynch films are incredibly dense whereas Villeneuve it feels like he is taking time over nothing. But I stick up for it because this is a criticism of something that I like. There really are not many people who can do ambitious and intelligent films, not even because of the system, just because it's incredibly difficult.
> I find it way less dull than Avengers or Sentimental American.


It's a fair point. I loved arrival, but thought blade runner 2 was a nothing burger. Allowing time for the atmosphere to seep through is a good thing and rare these days.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I would stick up for Villeneuve. I kind of agree with the criticisms, Blade Runner and Arrival are slow, and empty. I appreciate the David Lynch idea of making everything very slow, but David Lynch films are incredibly dense whereas Villeneuve it feels like he is taking time over nothing. But I stick up for it because this is a criticism of something that I like. There really are not many people who can do ambitious and intelligent films, not even because of the system, just because it's incredibly difficult.
> I find it way less dull than Avengers or Sentimental American.


What is Sentimental American?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2020)

Idaho said:


> I'm likely the biggest dune nerd on urban, and I am pretty fond of the lynch film. It dealt well with the reflective internal voice that is such a feature of the books. I'm guessing all that detail will be dealt with in this version by moody staring and flexing of jaw muscles, combined with some mammoth visual scene of big ships or sandworms.


On a minor note I think I prefer the way personal shields are shown here to the lynch film version, have to see them in action a bit more.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 13, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I know a few people creaming their pants over the new Dune, but I think they're fans of the book who feel Lynch messed up badly.


I have to agree with that viewpoint, the whole point of the original book is that the Fremen followed Paul Atreides since they thought he was the Messiah, not because he had a magic gun that could shatter rocks by shouting at them. I vastly preferred the 2000 miniseries.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 13, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> What is Sentimental American?



That genre of films that come out every 'fall' where a rich white person learns something important, or a middle class black person has some injustice happen to them but overcomes it


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2020)

freakydave said:


> That genre of films that come out every 'fall' where a rich white person learns something important, or a middle class black person has some injustice happen to them but overcomes it


That’s not a genre. You just made it up


----------



## freakydave (Sep 13, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> That’s not a genre. You just made it up



It's a genre that I made up the name for, it's definitely a genre though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2020)

freakydave said:


> It's a genre that I made up the name for, it's definitely a genre though.


No it isn’t


----------



## trabuquera (Sep 13, 2020)

Reno said:


> Villeneuve already is considered this visionary genius by fanboy types because his films are humourless and solemn, bordering on the ponderous. Many people mistake that for having depth.



Absolutely this. ( I was sitting on my hands resisting the urge to troll the thread by suggesting I'd prefer to see Villeneuve tackle something really revolutionary, like say a light screwball comedy?). Don't think there is a single moment of humour - or even much emotional decompression - in anything of his I've seen. And I actually rated BR2049 on a second viewing, but overall Villeneuve does feel-bad to the extreme. Prisoners, Sicario, Incenses...  all more than a little self-important, pompous, portentous in a very male, fanboy-friendly way; they're not stupid films, but end up so relentlessly po-faced and one-note that I get impatient. As a pulp-novel adaptation surely Dune should be approached with a spirit of baroque, extravagant, surreal, maybe tasteless fun, rather than the muted Armani-toned high-tech miserable minimalism that the trailer seems to promise. More of the same old guy? I'm still of course curious to see it.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 13, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> No it isn’t


ok


----------



## Idaho (Sep 13, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> I vastly preferred the 2000 miniseries.


The _mini series_? I will pour your water on to the sand. It was written by Shaitan.
(Draws crysknife)

Seriously it was awful. Utter shite. Beverly hills 90210 in space.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 15, 2020)

I just saw the trailer. If there wasn't a pandemic running amok then I would go to the cinema and watch it. I probably would have dragged one of my friends along with me.

Shame.



Orang Utan said:


> No it isn’t



Maybe not a genre, but I think they may be referring to a certain type of narrative.






						White savior narrative in film - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Santino (Sep 15, 2020)

NoXion said:


> I just saw the trailer. If there wasn't a pandemic running amok then I would go to the cinema and watch it. I probably would have dragged one of my friends along with me.
> 
> Shame.
> 
> ...


In some ways Dune is actually a sly deconstruction of the white saviour myth.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 15, 2020)

Santino said:


> In some ways Dune is actually a sly deconstruction of the white saviour myth.



Yeah, it's not something I would accuse Dune of doing; largely because I haven't read any of the books. But the Lynch film didn't come across that way to me either.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 16, 2020)

I've never read Dune and I'm reading it now. Out of respect to David Lynch who wanted it to be a John Smithee film I won't call it his, but the novel has given me a great perspective on the first Dune film which I had on VHS and watched a lot.
It really doesn't seem like something that you could enjoy without reading the books.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 16, 2020)

Alan Smithee btw


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2020)

Dune Movie Sets New Release Date for Late 2021
					

Denis Villenueve's big-budget adaptation of Dune has been pushed to October 1, 2021 by Warner Bros. and Legendary, according to sources.




					collider.com
				



Delayed for a year. If there are any cinemas left to show it.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 6, 2020)




----------



## ska invita (Oct 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Alan Smithee btw


Oh dear


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 6, 2020)

Idaho said:


> I'm likely the biggest dune nerd on urban,


A bold claim


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 6, 2020)

Blade Runner 2049 was visually stunning and intellectually empty. Given that Dune may never be released in a cinema it'll be interesting to see how it stands or whether this (actually quite actionless) book would have been better off with the ten/twenty part Netflix treatment. 

Also have they de-Arabised the Fremen, thus removing all the nods at Seven Pillars of Wisdom,  purely to avoid irate Mid Westerners burning down movie theatres when they realise the heroes are off on a jihad.


----------



## Idaho (Oct 6, 2020)

Red Sky said:


> A bold claim


I've got my own sietch!


----------



## Idaho (Oct 6, 2020)

Red Sky said:


> Also have they de-Arabised the Fremen, thus removing all the nods at Seven Pillars of Wisdom,  purely to avoid irate Mid Westerners burning down movie theatres when they realise the heroes are off on a jihad.



It's odd that they've cast Liet as a black woman, while de-ethnicising the fremen. Perhaps it would be a bit clumsy to make the fremen black - but maybe it could be done right. It would certainly fit the story. They are very culturally distinct and brought to arrakis as slaves.

The problem with having Liet as a woman is that in the dune universe, she would have been a bene Gesserit.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 6, 2020)

Red Sky said:


> it'll be interesting to see how it stands or whether this (actually quite actionless) book would have been better off with the ten/twenty part Netflix treatment.


This is my main thought. I'm not convinced at all that Dune will ever make a good film. It needs more time and a slower pace.


----------



## Reno (Dec 12, 2020)

Due to Warner's move to release their entire slate of 2020 films to streaming, Villeneuve may not be back to film the second half of Dune. That would be the third failure to bring the book to the screen, as originally planned and like with the Lynch film it would be down to a major rift between the director and studio.





__





						"Dune" Director Tears HBO Max A New One - Dark Horizons
					

Christopher Nolan may have thrown some sassy shade over the HBO Max announcement last week, but “Blade Runner 2049” and “Arrival” helmer Denis Villeneuve has tore Warner Bros. Pictures a new one in a new essay he has penned for Variety. Talking about the decision which will see his mega-budget...




					www.darkhorizons.com


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 12, 2020)

Reno said:


> Due to Warner's move to release their entire slate of 2020 films to streaming, Villeneuve may not be back to film the second half of Dune. That would be the third failure to bring the book to the screen, as originally planned and like with the Lynch film it would be down to a major rift between the director and studio.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He comes across as a whiny little prick tbh. He is aware of that whole global pandemic thing, yeah?


----------



## Reno (Dec 12, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> He comes across as a whiny little prick tbh. He is aware of that whole global pandemic thing, yeah?


Just because there is a global pandemic, that doesn't mean Warners had to make the choice to fuck over the people who worked on their films for many years, they had plenty of other options. And because there is a pandemic, that doesn't mean people have to shut up and put up with any shit and that they can't worry about anything else. A massive media conglomerate run by suits reneged on a deal and a promise, he is right to call them out over it. Why would should he not give a shit about a massive project he spent years of hard work on ?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 12, 2020)

Reno said:


> Just because there is a global pandemic, that doesn't mean Warners had to make the choice to fuck over the people who worked on their films for many years, they had plenty of other options. And because there is a pandemic, that doesn't mean people have to shut up and put up with any shit and that they can't worry about anything else. A massive media conglomerate run by suits reneged on a deal and a promise, he is right to call them out over it. Why would should he not give a shit about a massive project he spent years of hard work on ?


It will still be in cinemas, no? Just also available for streaming as well. Which is a good thing, considering we’re meant to be avoiding each other right now.


----------



## Reno (Dec 12, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It will still be in cinemas, no? Just also available for streaming as well. Which is a good thing, considering we’re meant to be avoiding each other right now.


One issue is that Warner's didn't consult any of the filmmakers involved, they made a unilateral decision without telling them, that's just shitty working practice. Complaining about that isn't "whining" after spending years of your life on a project, its legitimate. HBO Max is a struggling streaming service which probably deserves to have the plug pulled, but it's owned by Warners and they are chucking these film away to prop up their failing business, so basically there is corruption involved. Some of the filmmakers would have been open for their work to go to Netflix which offered them a good deal, rather than a streaming platform owned by the studio for no money, andwhich nobody subscribes to. But Warners blocked that.

All of these films are now financially unviable, in the case of Dune that means it was planned as two films. With the first film now probably losing a ton of money, there is no incentive for making a second one. That's why I thought it would be worth posting here.









						Christopher Nolan Rips HBO Max as “Worst Streaming Service,” Denounces Warner Bros.’ Plan
					

Christopher Nolan is criticizing WarnerMedia as talent and their reps feel blindsided by its HBO Max streaming announcement.




					www.hollywoodreporter.com


----------



## Crispy (Jul 19, 2021)

Coming October (premieres at Venice in September)
New trailer coming on Friday. Some promo posters below.
Visual style continues to look rather bland :-/


----------



## Brainaddict (Jul 19, 2021)

Reno said:


> Villeneuve already is considered this visionary genius by fanboy types because his films are humourless and solemn, bordering on the ponderous. Many people mistake that for having depth.



Ugh, just the tone of those shots makes me think the above is going to be true of this film too.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 19, 2021)

I still stand by my view that Dune is not a story for cinema.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 19, 2021)

looks pretty good to me. it’s a film not a book, so it shouldn’t be too faithful to the plot. hopefully it will be fun to watch, but i wasn’t impressed by Blade Runner 2046. can only remember the lighting.


----------



## Dandred (Jul 20, 2021)

Is the whole series worth it? 

I've read the first and am thinking about getting rest, are they as good as the first or do they get crappy like most fantasy series?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 20, 2021)

Dandred said:


> Is the whole series worth it?
> 
> I've read the first and am thinking about getting rest, are they as good as the first or do they get crappy like most fantasy series?



They get more crappy.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 20, 2021)

Idaho said:


> I'm likely the biggest dune nerd on urban,


I am now enlightened about your choice of username. 

I was wondering if you liked potatos or if the was a Henry Jones Jr situation.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 20, 2021)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> They get more crappy.


They aren't as engaging but the middle finger to hero worship and stuff like that does become more apparent.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jul 20, 2021)

Dandred said:


> Is the whole series worth it?
> 
> I've read the first and am thinking about getting rest, are they as good as the first or do they get crappy like most fantasy series?


Stop reading after Children of Dune


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 20, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Coming October (premieres at Venice in September)
> New trailer coming on Friday. Some promo posters below.
> Visual style continues to look rather bland :-/
> 
> ...


Apparently exposure to melange also turns photoshop filters blue.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 20, 2021)

Dandred said:


> Is the whole series worth it?
> 
> I've read the first and am thinking about getting rest, are they as good as the first or do they get crappy like most fantasy series?


Or depends on what kind of thing you like, and how much you liked the first one. They go quick slow quick slow. Dune Messiah and God emperor are slower books. Lots of people find God emperor to be hard going. It's where he brings in all his political ideas and critique.

The last two - heretics and chapter house are basically action, and pretty entertaining.


----------



## glitch hiker (Jul 20, 2021)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Apparently exposure to melange also turns photoshop filters blue.


Jessica looks younger than Paul!

The trailer looks shit however and I really don't care for that thing they do now where you take a pop song and turn it all moody with slow heavy piano and drawling fem vocals like the singer is falling asleep.

I mean ffs _Toto_ did a better job.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jul 20, 2021)

glitch hiker said:


> I really don't care for that thing they do now where you take a pop song and turn it all moody with slow heavy piano and drawling fem vocals like the singer is falling asleep.


I will refer to this practice from now on as Zimmer framed.


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 21, 2021)

Idaho said:


> It's odd that they've cast Liet as a black woman, while de-ethnicising the fremen. Perhaps it would be a bit clumsy to make the fremen black - but maybe it could be done right. It would certainly fit the story. They are very culturally distinct and brought to arrakis as slaves.
> 
> The problem with having Liet as a woman is that in the dune universe, she would have been a bene Gesserit.


Still my fav book ever......


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 21, 2021)

Idaho said:


> Or depends on what kind of thing you like, and how much you liked the first one. They go quick slow quick slow. Dune Messiah and God emperor are slower books. Lots of people find God emperor to be hard going. It's where he brings in all his political ideas and critique.
> 
> The last two - heretics and chapter house are basically action, and pretty entertaining.


God Emperor aka 500 pages of a conversation with a giant worm at the end of time.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 21, 2021)

Red Sky said:


> God Emperor aka 500 pages of a conversation with a giant worm at the end of time.


What's your point?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 22, 2021)

New trailer


----------



## David Clapson (Jul 22, 2021)

Rebecca Ferguson is too ordinary to replace Francesca Annis


----------



## Reno (Jul 22, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Rebecca Ferguson is too ordinary to replace Francesca Annis


I think she's great. One of my favourite actresses currently working, she reminds me of Ingrid Bergman. In the Mission:Impossible films she plays is by far the most interesting character and that's largely due to her performance. I'm still not convinced by the tasteful minimalism of this version, but the cast is first rate.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 22, 2021)

Worth bearing in mind that this kind of "new audience" trailer is designed to get bums on seats, which is the important thing. If it flops like BR2049 did, then we don't get part 2. And it's part 2 that will have all the seriously weird and wild stuff.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 22, 2021)

I suppose, on a commercial level, it's a gamble that has a great payoff as they can flog it for a decade.


----------



## Tankus (Jul 22, 2021)

If Skarsgård  ever sez  "the  horror"  ....in the  dark ,  I may be aghast ,myself  , but  not  necessarily  for  the  right  reasons ........

2 hrs  35  min  ? ...I hope  there's a  4 hour  directors  cut   , with  no monolog


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 23, 2021)




----------



## mentalchik (Jul 24, 2021)

Crispy said:


> New trailer



well i for one am proper excited and i think it looks wicked


----------



## Cerv (Jul 26, 2021)

Dandred said:


> Is the whole series worth it?
> 
> I've read the first and am thinking about getting rest, are they as good as the first or do they get crappy like most fantasy series?



I've read the all several times. Dune is by far the best, but they are all entertaining in their own way.
they don't get crappy, but do change around in tone and style quite a bit. also are full of massive inconsistencies between the books where Herbert just make mistakes or changed his mind so if you're the kind of sci-fi fan that bothers be warned.

God Emperor is a weird slog if you don't get into the preachy monologues from the giant mutant worm. if you find yourself bored a couple chapters in, skip it.

and whatever you do, don't touch the stuff his son wrote with KJA of crap Star Wars tie-in fame. they're just unmitigated trash.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2021)

If this is a massive success as a two part epic beloved by all then I can see the day when the prequels are televised, dark days ahead


----------



## Reno (Jul 26, 2021)

DotCommunist said:


> If this is a massive success as a two part epic beloved by all then I can see the day when the prequels are televised, dark days ahead


There already is a prequel series in the works but its not a direct adaptation of any of the books.









						‘Dune’ Series Ordered at WarnerMedia Streaming Service, Denis Villeneuve to Direct
					

WarnerMedia’s streaming service has given a straight-to-series order to the sci-fi project “Dune: The Sisterhood.” The series hails from Legendary Television, with Legendary also …




					variety.com


----------



## Doodler (Jul 26, 2021)

Maybe he could have a go at remaking the dismal 'Valerian', properly remembering Laureline in the title too.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 3, 2021)

It just premiered and the early reviews are in

They range from the gushing








						Dune review – blockbuster cinema at its dizzying, dazzling best
					

Denis Villeneuve’s slow-burn space opera fuses the arthouse and the multiplex to create an epic of otherworldly brilliance




					www.theguardian.com
				



To the disappointed








						‘Dune’ Review: Denis Villeneuve’s Epic Spice Opera Is a Massive Disappointment
					

Hype is the mind-killer.




					www.indiewire.com


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 3, 2021)

the majoiry do appear to be increibly positive which is good. Getting hyped!


----------



## Idaho (Sep 4, 2021)

gawkrodger said:


> the majoiry do appear to be increibly positive which is good. Getting hyped!


I take that as a bad sign. If the reviews said that it was confusing, over detailed and incomprehensible, I'd be optimistic.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 4, 2021)

And all the reviews say the previous film was bad, which is so wrong! The only bad bit was Sting. 

And this film only tells half the story.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> And all the reviews say the previous film was bad, which is so wrong! The only bad bit was Sting.
> 
> And this film only tells half the story.



The bad bit was hardly Sting. It was the cheesy smiley Paul and his trainer riding the worms, the dreadful editing which made it seem like the film was fast forwarding itself. And the casual almost homophobic depiction of the gay characters.

Great looking in parts and Lynch is always worth a look, but the film is quite flawed.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> The bad bit was hardly Sting. It was the cheesy smiley Paul and his trainer riding the worms, the dreadful editing which made it seem like the film was fast forwarding itself. And the casual almost homophobic depiction of the gay characters.
> 
> Great looking in parts and Lynch is always worth a look, but the film is quite flawed.


Which were the gay characters?

In the books I wouldn't call the Baron gay.
It's more a case that he is obsessed with pleasure so would fuck anything if he thought it would be pleaaurable. Man, woman, dog, couch, Theresa May. Anything.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> Which were the gay characters.
> 
> In the books I wouldn't call the Baron gay.
> It's more a case that he is obsessed with pleasure so would fuck anything if he thought it would be pleaaurable. Man, woman, dog, couch, Theresa May. Anything.


Not talking about the books, haven't read them. Talking about Lynch adaptation.

This bit (_yes, yes_ from wiki)

Film scholar Robin Wood called _Dune_ "the most obscenely homophobic film I have ever seen"[28]—referring to a scene in which Baron Harkonnen sexually assaults and kills a young man by bleeding him to death—charging it with "managing to associate with homosexuality in a single scene physical grossness, moral depravity, violence and disease."[28] Gay writer Dennis Altman suggested that the film showed how "AIDS references began penetrating popular culture" in the 1980s, asking, "Was it just an accident that in the film _Dune_ the homosexual villain had suppurating sores on his face?


----------



## Gromit (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Not talking about the books, haven't read them. Talking about Lynch adaptation.
> 
> This bit (_yes, yes_ from wiki)
> 
> Film scholar Robin Wood called _Dune_ "the most obscenely homophobic film I have ever seen"[28]—referring to a scene in which Baron Harkonnen sexually assaults and kills a young man by bleeding him to death—charging it with "managing to associate with homosexuality in a single scene physical grossness, moral depravity, violence and disease."[28] Gay writer Dennis Altman suggested that the film showed how "AIDS references began penetrating popular culture" in the 1980s, asking, "Was it just an accident that in the film _Dune_ the homosexual villain had suppurating sores.


The Barons character is one of a sadist, a glutton, a pederast, a megalomaniac who does everything to gross excess.

It's not that he's evil cause he gay. It's that everything he does is done in an evil way. If he was straight he do it in an evil way, if he was Christian he'd do it in an evil way, if he made a cup of tea he'd... you get the point.
Being a pederast was probably seen as the worst way he could express sexuality.
Let's not forget Frank Herbert wrote about religion in a round about way. Religion and pederasts. Could there be a connection?


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> The Barons character is one of a sadist, a glutton, a pederast, a megalomaniac who does everything to gross excess.
> 
> It's not that he's evil cause he gay. It's that everything he does is done in an evil way. If he was straight he do it in an evil way, if he was Christian he'd do it in an evil way, if he made a cup of tea he'd... you get the point.
> Being a pederast was probably seen as the worst way he could express sexuality.
> Let's not forget Frank Herbert wrote about religion in a round about way. Religion and pederasts. Could there be a connection?



Again, am not talking about the books. It's about the 1984 adaptation, which (for various reasons previously mentioned) find parts of objectionable.

There was a habit of making LGBT characters wrong uns in 80s/90s Hollywood.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Again, am not talking about the books. It's about the 1984 adaptation, which (for various reasons previously mentioned) find parts of objectionable.
> 
> There was a habit of making LGBT characters wrong uns in 80s/90s Hollywood.


The adaption closely follows the books in this part at least.
Lynch hasn't got the time to explain so he just implies. No not implies. Quickly summarises. 
It's blatantly obvious to those who have read the books but I can understand how it could fly over the head of those who haven't... Who might therefore make their own assumptions and connections. Especially if they're already feeling put upon by other films.

I wouldn't call Lynch Hollywood by the way.  He was always seriously off-piste.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> The adaption closely follows the books in this part at least.
> Lynch hasn't got the time to explain so he just implies. It's blatantly obvious to those who have read the books but I can understand how it could fly over the head of those who haven't... Who might therefore make their own assumptions and connections. Especially if they're already feeling put upon by other films.
> 
> I wouldn't call Lynch Hollywood by the way.  He was always seriously off-piste.



Ugh. That first paragraph reads like one of those so-called apologies where the perpetrator sez "I'm sorry if you were offended _but_ ..."

It hasn't flown over this head. Negative LGBT portrayals were (and often still are) notorious in Hollywood films, esp during that period. Didn't feel "put upon" but certainly was wishing for better representation.

Wouldn't call Lynch Hollywood, either. But that was a big budget studio back would-be blockbuster, which would (if it had been a smash) projected yet another shit representation of a LGBT character.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Ugh. That first paragraph reads like one of those so-called apologies where the perpetrator sez "I'm sorry if you were offended _but_ ..."
> 
> It hasn't flown over this head. Negative LGBT portrayals were (and often still are) notorious in Hollywood films, esp during that period. Didn't feel "put upon" but certainly was wishing for better representation.
> 
> Wouldn't call Lynch Hollywood, either. But that was a big budget studio back would-be blockbuster, which would (if it had been a smash) projected yet another shit representation of a LGBT character.


All I'm saying is that that those reviews and your reaction give the impression of...

Oh here we go. Another director "making" a character gay to make them evil.

When it's a case of the director being given a character by the source material. This character likes to rape and torture young boys for a number of complex reasons (I haven't even gone into his relationship with the Bene Gesserite). The conundrum: How do I please the massive fan base and casual movie goers?


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> All I'm saying is that that those reviews and your reaction give the impression of...
> 
> Oh here we go. Another director "making" a character gay to make them evil.
> 
> When it's a case of the director being given a character by the source material. This character likes to rape and torture young boys for a number of complex reasons (I haven't even gone into his relationship with the Bene Gesserite). The conundrum: How do I please the massive fan base and casual movie goers?



All you're _saying_ is that you don't like being given some context to your favourite film/character being not all that.

And that those of us who objected/object to negative portrayals are sensitive little souls who are making a big old fuss about nothing.

As for the details of what he likes to do for a number of comple reasons - that's the book (which haven't read) not the film.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> All you're _saying_ is that you don't like being given some context to your favourite film/character being not all that.
> 
> And that those of us who objected/object to negative portrayals are sensitive little souls who are making a big old fuss about nothing.
> 
> As for the details of what he likes to do for a number of comple reasons - that's the book (which haven't read) not the film.


Favourite? Lol!

Nope. Feel victimised all you want.
In this instance it's not a direct attack by a homophobic director but believe that if it makes you feel better sure. I've given you the evidence why it's not. Which you dismiss as "but I haven't read that evidence and so it doesn't exist, la la la not listening".


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> Favourite? Lol!
> 
> Nope. Feel victimised all you want.
> In this instance it's not a direct attack by a homophobic director but believe that if it makes you feel better sure. I've given you the evidence why. Which you dismiss as "but I haven't read that evidence and so it doesn't exist, la la la not listening".



You disingenuous cunt.

Didn't say felt like a victim. Have pointed out that Hollywood has had decades of poor representation of LGBT folk, which you won't address. Instead you lie that this self believes Lynch is a homophobe.

The studio fucked the adaptation for several reasons, as mentioned earlier. Dunno if DL is a homophobe - he doesn't seem to be a wrecker of art, either.

Then again - Lynch didn't read the book. How about that.

(Now remembers why it's pointless to engage with you. )


----------



## Gromit (Sep 4, 2021)

Just checking...

You know Spiderman climbs walls, shoots webs and has a tingling danger sense because it was so in the comic books right?
Or do you think they should have ignored the source material and given Spiderman the power of invisibility. You know, because you haven't read the books so what does it matter?


----------



## Gromit (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> You disingenuous cunt.
> 
> Didn't say felt like a victim. Have pointed out that Hollywood has had decades of poor representation of LGBT folk, which you won't address. Instead you lie that this self believes Lynch is a homophobe.
> 
> ...


We were not talking about decades of Hollywood*. We were talking about Dune.

* I haven't watched decades of Hollywood films for gay portrayal positive or negative. I'm prepared to take your word for it. Haven't disputed it.

I'm disputing it in Dune though. In Dune.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> Just checking...
> 
> You know Spiderman climbs walls, shoots webs and has a tingling danger sense because it was so in the comic books right?
> Or do you think they should have ignored the source material and given Spiderman the power of invisibility. You know, because you haven't read the books so what does it matter?



Spiderman has been invisible. 

Clown.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> We were not talking about decades of Hollywood. We were talking about Dune.



Fuck off Gromit


----------



## Gromit (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Spiderman has been invisible.
> 
> Clown.



Didn't say he hadn't been invisible.

Said It wasnt *his* power.
It's *her* power. You see the distinction right?

I've given you a clue by using bold as you seem a bit slow.

Oh and I haven't read that one so it doesn't count even if it did. Using your argument.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 4, 2021)

Crispy said:


> It just premiered and the early reviews are in
> 
> They range from the gushing
> 
> ...



My partner holds the guardian above all others when it comes to film reviews, so a 5 star review definitely means we get to go the cinema.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> Didn't say he hadn't been invisible.
> 
> Said It wasnt *his* power.
> It's *her* power. You see the distinction right?
> ...



He was given the power of invisibility.

On more than one occasion. By the writers.

The writers.


And that wasn't part of the Ditko/Lee original set up. 

What do you think of David Lynch not reading the Frank Herbert source material?

La la


----------



## Santino (Sep 4, 2021)

Spiderman didn't have invisibility powers. Therefore you must acquit.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Santino said:


> Spiderman didn't have invisibility powers. Therefore you must acquit.
> View attachment 286684



Not originally, sure.


----------



## Santino (Sep 4, 2021)

Show me Spiderman being invisible and I will tell you whether Dune is good or not.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Santino said:


> Show me Spiderman being invisible and I will tell you whether Dune is good or not.


 See post 266


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 4, 2021)

you know spiderman has done some were shit over the years







has fuck all to due with dune mind


----------



## pinkychukkles (Sep 4, 2021)

My newest fave YouTube film / TV reviewer*, The Critical Drinker, seems to think it has promise too...


*ever since Cinema For Cynics ceased reviewing


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2021)

it looks pretty but dull - just like BR 2049


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> it looks pretty but dull - just like BR 2046


If it's anything remotely as good as Blade Runner 2049, will be exceptionally pleased.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> If it's anything remotely as good as Blade Runner 2049


BR 2049 was crap


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> BR 2049 was crap



Meh


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> it looks pretty but dull - just like BR 2049


I was frustrated because there was possibly an ok film in there, if you cut out about 45 minutes of crap. I wish fan edits of films were more common. Perhaps they are and I just don't know where to look. If I were someone with time on my hands and the editing gear and was really into BR then I'd be tempted to give it a go.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> I was frustrated because there was possibly an ok film in there, if you cut out about 45 minutes of crap. I wish fan edits of films were more common. Perhaps they are and I just don't know where to look. If I were someone with time on my hands and the editing gear and was really into BR then I'd be tempted to give it a go.



Would trim the replicant resistance stuff, for starters.

The misogynistic future in which women are treated as commodities and disposable was certainly upsetting and controversial, but it kind of mirrors the world (or parts of it) we find ourselves in.


----------



## Reno (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Would trim the replicant resistance stuff, for starters.
> 
> The misogynistic future in which women are treated as commodities and disposable was certainly upsetting and controversial, but it kind of mirrors the world (or parts of it) we find ourselves in.


Agreed, the replicant resistance felt like it was setting up a sequel which of course we'll never get to see. The first time I watched BR 2049 I was disappointed but it's grown on me on a rewatch.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Would trim the replicant resistance stuff, for starters.
> 
> The misogynistic future in which women are treated as commodities and disposable was certainly upsetting and controversial, but it kind of mirrors the world (or parts of it) we find ourselves in.


I would also just trim a lot of the long, slow shots. He thinks he's being atmospheric but he's not really good enough to pull it off most of the time and the shot ends up being boring. I'm expecting a lot of that in Dune.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2021)

i don’t remember what happens in the film. I just remember the lighting. i don’t think the story was compelling or even coherent to follow


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> it looks pretty but dull - just like BR 2049



Hopefully it won't be as dull as BR 2049.  That was a struggle to sit through!


----------



## xenon (Sep 4, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> BR 2049 was crap



Yep.

I dunno if it's just me getting older,  more demanding from my fiction but a load of scifi films just end with, loads of shooting, blow stuff up. Can't resolve this plot line, just have them shoot each other to death.
Interesting ideas, characters. Could we explore this a bit more.. .Nope, it's guns time!... Again.

* yawn *

I will watch this of course.


----------



## Reno (Sep 4, 2021)

xenon said:


> Yep.
> 
> I dunno if it's just me getting older,  more demanding from my fiction but a load of scifi films just end with, loads of shooting, blow stuff up. Can't resolve this plot line, just have them shoot each other to death.
> Interesting ideas, characters. Could we explore this a bit more.. .Nope, it's guns time!... Again.
> ...


Both the original Blade Runner and the sequel end with a hand to hand combat between the main protagonist and a replicant. Nothing gets blown up and both films end on a melancholy note.

The main complaint wasn't that there is too much action, but that it's too slow and boring, the same complaint which was made against the original Blade Runner.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 4, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> I was frustrated because there was possibly an ok film in there, if you cut out about 45 minutes of crap. I wish fan edits of films were more common. Perhaps they are and I just don't know where to look. If I were someone with time on my hands and the editing gear and was really into BR then I'd be tempted to give it a go.


I consider BR 2049 masterpiece and like most masterpieces it has a flaw because it's reaching for the stars rather than playing it safe. For me the flaw is Jared Leto. His bits are panto and add no value.

Much like the Baron's parts in Lynch's Dune were panto to be honest.

Not all protagonists need extra colour to make you root for the hero.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 4, 2021)

Leto was rubbish. But the worst thing was cutting open the naked newborn woman and discarding her. OK, she's not quite human but that doesn't lessen the foulness of it. The censor should have made them cut it. It should never, ever be shown, to anyone. If I was Villeneuve's wife I'd never let him come near me after that. The rest of the film was fantastic, with great parts for women. So I'm puzzled by the misogyny of that scene. I shut my eyes when I rewatch.


----------



## Reno (Sep 4, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Leto was rubbish. But the worst thing was cutting open the naked newborn woman and discarding her. OK, she's not quite human but that doesn't lessen the foulness of it. The censor should have made them cut it. It should never, ever be shown, to anyone. If I was Villeneuve's wife I'd never let him come near me after that. The rest of the film was fantastic, with great parts for women. So I'm puzzled by the misogyny of that scene. I shut my eyes when I rewatch.


Pro censorship and a firm believer that all art is strictly  autobiographical, I wouldn’t even know where to start !


----------



## AverageJoe (Sep 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> t's that everything he does is done in an evil way. If he was straight he do it in an evil way, if he was Christian he'd do it in an evil way, if he made a cup of tea he'd... you get the point.


This tickled me more than it should and I'm going to try it when I next make The Baroness a cup of tea. 

Milk first. Then water. And finally the tea bag. 

Whilst cackling.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 4, 2021)

Milk first you Monster


----------



## AverageJoe (Sep 4, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> Milk first you Monster


_cackles_


----------



## AverageJoe (Sep 4, 2021)

I'm also going to put cheese then beans on their jacket potatoes for dinner, and for breakfast I'm going to to put chips on their Feb, which will have hash browns and no bean dam.

Goddamit, I'm positively EVIL! 😂😂😂


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 4, 2021)

if it hash brown at home you should be shot


i'm watching the purge series this evening and i'm starting to understand the logic


😡


----------



## Reno (Sep 9, 2021)

The mockbuster is out.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 9, 2021)

Oh dear. I have a feeling I will agree with this. ‘Dune’ Review: Denis Villeneuve’s Epic Spice Opera Is a Massive Disappointment


----------



## ska invita (Sep 9, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Oh dear. I have a feeling I will agree with this. ‘Dune’ Review: Denis Villeneuve’s Epic Spice Opera Is a Massive Disappointment


i dont know, critics slammed the Lynch film and I think thats brilliant - best to ignore all film critics unless you happen to find a particular voice that matches your taste, and even then who cares what other people think? Reading about films before seeing them only ever spoils them one way or another IME. After watching is something else.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 9, 2021)

True. The funny thing about this crop of reviews is that lots of them tell the whole story at some length. Like this one ‘Dune’ Review: Spectacular and Engrossing…Until It Isn’t And I keep thinking, 'what the hell are you doing? What a waste of words'. The trouble is I still remember every detail of the Lynch film. It made a huge impression on me, and still does. Just that scene in the original edit of the navigator arriving...just that is one of the best things ever done. The design and the sound transfixed me. So I can't understand people who say the film was bad, or even people who say the book was good. OK, great story, but Herbert was such a mediocre writer.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

it’s probably best to focus on reviews of the film by critics who aren’t Bookwankers (trademark U75). You won’t get a fair review from people comparing it with the book


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2021)

This is one of the first times I've been a book wanker so I look forward to superciliously trashing various aspects and also spoilering bits whilst claiming they're not actually spoilers.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 9, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> This is one of the first times I've been a book wanker so I look forward to superciliously trashing various aspects and also spoilering bits whilst claiming they're not actually spoilers.


#lifegoals


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 11, 2021)

I’ve never read Dune. It’s always looked very thick. Really very thick. Like, you’d need to rest it on something. I remember the film with Sting which I didn’t watch because it had music by Toto and even David Lynch told me not to bother.  I think there were giant sand worms.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 11, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve never read Dune. It’s always looked very thick. Really very thick. Like, you’d need to rest it on something. I remember the film with Sting which I didn’t watch because it had music by Toto and even David Lynch told me not to bother.  I think there were giant sand worms.



I only know the famous bit which is all 'I must not fear, fear is the mind-killer' which always struck me as poorly written.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 11, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> I only know the famous bit which is all 'I must not fear, fear is the mind-killer' which always struck me as poorly written.


I don’t know that bit, but I’d have used a colon. Or maybe a semi-colon if I was implying a “for”.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 11, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I don’t know that bit, but I’d have used a colon. Or maybe a semi-colon if I was implying a “for”.



It's actually a full stop in the original.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 11, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's actually a full stop in the original.


Hemingway would have approved.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 11, 2021)

my encounters with Dune are limited to hearing these two bangers:


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 11, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> my encounters with Dune are limited to hearing these two bangers:



And also Freeland and Aphrodite


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 11, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


>




This is the best use of that sample imo:


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 11, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> This is the best use of that sample imo:



HIPPIE!


----------



## paul mckenna (Sep 21, 2021)

Saw this tonight and it was excellent. A _slight _slowdown in the final third but to be expected as half of a whole. 

Such good aesthetics. Dunno if this is director or not but everything looked so cohesive. It's very similar in terms of scene pacing to Bladerunner 2, lighting etc. It's proper good


----------



## paul mckenna (Sep 23, 2021)

For such a big buildup thread i'm surprised no-one else has gone to see this seemingly


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2021)

paul mckenna said:


> For such a big buildup thread i'm surprised no-one else has gone to see this seemingly


The worldwide release dates are staggered, so you'd have to be in mainland Europe or the ME to see it








						Dune (2021) - IMDb
					

Dune (2021) on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more...




					www.imdb.com
				




We don't get it till October 21st , along with China and USA. Reason being, it will be on HBO Max on the same day (Warners pandemic strategy to recoup lost box office) which means a perfect pirate version will be available too. They want to get as much box office income as possible before then.


----------



## paul mckenna (Sep 23, 2021)

Crispy said:


> The worldwide release dates are staggered, so you'd have to be in mainland Europe or the ME to see it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh that sucks. Surprising, thought they were syncing more so nowadays. 4DX Imax here in Amsterdam 😎 

He sure likes his burnt orange lighting


----------



## Reno (Sep 26, 2021)

I saw this last night and I have to admit, it was far better than the trailers would have me believe. Visually it is spectacular, all the best stuff in terms of art direction and effects sequences, is not in the trailers. I've never read the novel, this type of sci-fi/fantasy world building with lots of made-up names and words isn't my thing, I only ever saw the Lynch movie. Even if narratively it was a mess in the second half, that film looked gorgeous, it was very ornate mixing a cyberpunk aesthetic with Elizabethan and Asian design elements.

The new Dune looks more sleek, taking its influences from more contemporary art and design, but it's very beautiful in its own way. With the plot being given more space to breathe, it's more coherent than the Lynch film though it only covers the first half of the novel, which still worked pretty well in the earlier film. I now really hope the second film will happen, because the Lynch movie rushed through the second half where it didn't make sense unless you had read the book (the producers forced him to cut a film shot for a three hour running time, down to two at the editing stage). 

Just as in the first film, the characters feel flat, they are archetypes rather then fully rounded human beings, but a first rate cast helps with that. The first half of the film is quite slow, but in the second there are several spectacular action scenes and set pieces. The film does interesting things with scale, the humans are often dwarfed by enormous space ships and war machines. Even when the film was lagging, there was always something interesting to look at. It was also wonderful to see a big, spectacular blockbuster on a large screen again.


----------



## Flavour (Sep 28, 2021)

Saw this last night. 100% worth seeing in a cinema with Dolby 4K for the sheer spectacle. It's very impressive and imo shits all over BR2049


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2021)

Is this on torrents yet+


----------



## Reno (Sep 28, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Is this on torrents yet+


Nope


----------



## Crispy (Sep 28, 2021)

It will be available as a perfect rip from HBO Max the day it releases in UK/US
It would be a waste of time to watch it in potato cam given how much everyone is raving about the cinematic visuals


----------



## Reno (Sep 28, 2021)

Apart from that it's a film that's worth seeing on a big screen, if it doesn't make enough money, we'll never see the second part of the book filmed.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 28, 2021)

Reno said:


> Apart from that it's a film that's worth seeing on a big screen, if it doesn't make enough money, we'll never see the second part of the book filmed.



Anywhere to stream it legally here in the UK?

My first 2 cinema visits since Covid have resulted in teenagers chatting for the entire length of one film, and a mother and daughter Snapchatting each other through the entirety of another. Fuck people.

I want to support this but if I can't I'll just torrent it.


----------



## Reno (Sep 28, 2021)

mwgdrwg said:


> Anywhere to stream it legally here in the UK?
> 
> My first 2 cinema visits since Covid have resulted in teenagers chatting for the entire length of one film, and a mother and daughter Snapchatting each other through the entirety of another. Fuck people.
> 
> I want to support this but if I can't I'll just torrent it.


:edit:

Probably not till next year as I just saw there is not HBO Max in the UK.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 28, 2021)

I'm going to splurge on comfy seats at the leicester square imax, and then go straight home and torrent it


----------



## Tankus (Sep 28, 2021)

Not too keen on doing a cinema as  just yet....


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 28, 2021)

I don't enjoy cinemas nowadays. Bizarrely enough given my day job, I think they're often way too loud.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 28, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve never read Dune. It’s always looked very thick. Really very thick. Like, you’d need to rest it on something. I remember the film with Sting which I didn’t watch because it had music by Toto and even David Lynch told me not to bother.  I think there were giant sand worms.


David Lynch, surprisingly, panics at bad reviews. Hes very sensitive. Ignore him, its great.
With you on the thickness. And theres a few books too I gather - all thick. Maybe in retirement...


----------



## Reno (Sep 28, 2021)

ska invita said:


> David Lynch, surprisingly, panics at bad reviews. Hes very sensitive. Ignore him, its great.
> With you on the thickness. And theres a few books too I gather - all thick. Maybe in retirement...


Lynch didn't panic at bad reviews, he wasn't allowed to make the film he wanted to make and as a result the second half of his Dune is a mess. He knew the film was doomed from the moment he was told to cut an hour out of it by the producer Dino De Laurentiis. He never made a big Hollywood film again and made sure he had final cut from then on.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 28, 2021)

Reno said:


> Lynch didn't panic at bad reviews, he wasn't allowed to make the film he wanted to make and as a result the second half of his Dune is a mess. He knew the film was doomed from the moment he was told to cut an hour out of it by the producer Dino De Larentiis. He never made a big Hollywood film again and made sure he had final cut from then on.


Yeah fair enough but he really didnt like getting bad reviews for inland empire and hasnt made a feature film since! i was suprised to see him talk about that - he came across mortally wounded - he's not your usual cocksure director


----------



## Reno (Sep 28, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Yeah fair enough but he really didnt like getting bad reviews for inland empire and hasnt made a feature film since! i was suprised to see him talk about that - he came across mortally wounded - he's not your usual cocksure director


Inland Empire mostly got good reviews, what he didn't like is that he was reduced to make a film like that at this point of his career, mostly self-financed and on a tiny budget, because in a big budget, franchised obsessed Hollywood, he wasn't able to get his type of films financed anymore. Then he was barely able too get Inland Empire publicised and distributed. That's what he was complaining about at the time and why he hasn't made a film since then, it's  too difficult for directors like him, to get his type of films off the ground and distributed. The notion that he would be a crybaby over a few bad reviews after a career of making divisive and controversial films, is a little absurd.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 2, 2021)

I saw the Lynch Dune when it came out. At the Ritzy, Brixton. They got the reels mixed up and no one noticed. I need to have another look at it. I've liked all that Lynch has done since. 

Im a reader of Sci Fi. I understand that film will use a written novel and change it. Blade Runner is an example. The Philip K Dick novel is somewhat different and more spooky imo. Still Blade Runner is an excellent film. Which has to be seen on a Cinema screen.

I've been reading the Dune novel. It is a Sci Fi classic. Read two thirds. Its an old novel 1965. Quite hippy trippy of its time. I do like the Sci Fi of that time. 

Reading it now with Jihad having actually occurred is rather unsettling. ( ISIS). Its a very odd story. The desert planet the Home of the Fremen I can see would translate well into a visual experience.

What is going to be hard is the inner hippy trippy psychology. Herbert paints a complex future society where high technology / rejection of AI Co incide. Mysticism is presented as real but also a political tactic. The women only Bene Gesserit implant myths into backward societies for example.

The Mentats are human alternatives to AI. I will be interested to see how the new film deals with first half of novel. There are a lot of interior monologues. It's at one side a highly evolved society at another a form of brutal feudalism/ Asiatic despotism. ( I know that sounds a bit politically dubious but I give American Sci Fi writers from 60s a break on this. )

 A thing in the novel is what is called race consciousness . Breeding to produce the One. Instead of using technology. I must say I give this a pass due to the times it was written but alarms bells ring.

I digress. A lot of first bit of novel is what is called in Sci Fi World Building. He describes a complex alternative future society. That is the novels success. On that he gets from me ten out of ten. 

What a film director is going to have to deal with is the interior monologues . The story does not make sense without them.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 2, 2021)

To add in the novel the future society has not rejected Space travel. That is run by the mysterious Guild. Who keep the knowledge of space travel to themselves Letting the Barons/ Emporers/ merchants use it. But keeping how it works to themselves.

The future society have rejected a future of AI / Algorithms. Instead training their minds and breeding to produce finer humans. Herbert as a man of the 60s was interested in things like Zen Buddhism - inner space.

This might get lost of an audience of today unless they know the 60s context.

The Spice is clearly about inner space and mind altering/ mysticism. 

Women in the novel are important characters and are strong. On that Herbert was ok. Unlike Philip K Dick. In that for a male American  Sci Fi writer he was progressive.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 2, 2021)

I need to see Lynch version again. I got to bit in novel where Paul Is trying to work out if his memories are real. Whether he is seeing the future, a possible future, the past or the the present.

The Desert planet is infused with the drug. Even eating food and you have some. Your eyes change colour.  It's a hippies paradise.   It's the Spice that makes Paul see his visions. Also his breeding. 

Felt reading this that its this aspect of the novel that attracted Lynch. Even if his Dune film was a failure his later films perhaps had a little influence from the novel. A suggestion.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Oct 2, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> BR 2049 was crap


I just watched it and really liked it


----------



## Crispy (Oct 2, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> A lot of first bit of novel is what is called in Sci Fi World Building. He describes a complex alternative future society. That is the novels success. On that he gets from me ten out of ten.


By all reports, this worldbuilding translates very well to the screen. And I share your trepidation for how Villeneuve plans to handle the trippy shit in the 2nd half of the book. Most importantly, he wants to (and I want him to) adapt the second book as well, which makes a satisfying epilogue to the story, turning the white saviour story right on its head.

The Lynch movie looks amazing but the writing and plotting and editing and most of the acting is just not good.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Oct 2, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> my encounters with Dune are limited to hearing these two bangers:



Oh yes!!


----------



## shifting gears (Oct 3, 2021)

bellaozzydog said:


> I just watched it and really liked it



It’s brilliant, how anyone could describe it as crap is bizarre, and I’m a fully paid up fanboy of the original who was prepared for disappointment


----------



## lefteri (Oct 3, 2021)

shifting gears said:


> It’s brilliant, how anyone could describe it as crap is bizarre, and I’m a fully paid up fanboy of the original who was prepared for disappointment


same


----------



## lefteri (Oct 3, 2021)

shifting gears said:


> It’s brilliant, how anyone could describe it as crap is bizarre, and I’m a fully paid up fanboy of the original who was prepared for disappointment


the thing that disappointed me a bit at the time was the music, which was so abstract compared to the complex melodic majesty of the original but in retrospect zimmer had to do something very different to such an iconic score


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 3, 2021)

shifting gears said:


> It’s brilliant, how anyone could describe it as crap is bizarre, and I’m a fully paid up fanboy of the original who was prepared for disappointment


The original is overrated


----------



## shifting gears (Oct 3, 2021)

lefteri said:


> the thing that disappointed me a bit at the time was the music, which was so abstract compared to the complex melodic majesty of the original but in retrospect zimmer had to do something very different to such an iconic score


I found that the less iconic score in the sequel was offset by the bowel-quaking bassy blasts at points, I actually laughed in the cinema at one point when I first went to see it!


----------



## shifting gears (Oct 3, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The original is overrated


_Your’re_ overrated 😉


----------



## shifting gears (Oct 3, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The original is overrated


_Your’re_ overrated


shifting gears said:


> _Your’re_ overrated 😉


this went well 🤣

Ahem. I am looking forward to seeing Dune.


----------



## lefteri (Oct 4, 2021)

shifting gears said:


> I found that the less iconic score in the sequel was offset by the bowel-quaking bassy blasts at points, I actually laughed in the cinema at one point when I first went to see it!


did we actually see it together?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 4, 2021)

Gromit said:


> The Barons character is one of a sadist, a glutton, a pederast, a megalomaniac who does everything to gross excess.
> 
> It's not that he's evil cause he gay. It's that everything he does is done in an evil way. If he was straight he do it in an evil way, if he was Christian he'd do it in an evil way, if he made a cup of tea he'd... you get the point.
> Being a pederast was probably seen as the worst way he could express sexuality.
> Let's not forget Frank Herbert wrote about religion in a round about way. Religion and pederasts. Could there be a connection?


Completely by the by, you get an origin story for the Baron's sores and health problems in one of the Brian Herbert prequel novels.  I didn't see those books as quite the trainwreck most people do, though there's certainly not much subtlety in the writing, to say the least.  I'm not sure there's much of a spoilers issue anyway, but let's say the sores and the rest are as a result of a 'heterosexual crime'.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2021)

I downloaded one of those books on a whim, just to see if they're as bad as they say they are. They are. I do not consider them part of the same world.
Bad fanfiction.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 4, 2021)

Crispy said:


> I downloaded one of those books on a whim, just to see if they're as bad as they say they are. They are. I do not consider them part of the same world.
> Bad fanfiction.


I'm not going to mount much of a defence, they suffer massively in comparison to the proper series.  I just thought the prequels did a reasonable plotwise and they'd be in the middle of the pack if you were given a bunch of  random SF/Fantasy books to read.  The ones written as a sequel to chapterhouse dune were every bit as bad as everyone suggests.

In admitting I could stomach the plot driven prequels - here we go, amnesty for unpopular opinions thread - I thought the Frank Herbert books themselves, at least after the original novel had a bit too much 'internal dialogue', to the point where my 20 odd year old self might actually have given up on chapterhouse dune.  I get that you had a variety of people who through their advanced training were interacting, strategising and seeking advantage - in fact that's what the later novels came to be about (from what I remember a few decades on).  It just got a bit... go on I'll say it .... _boring_.


----------



## paul mckenna (Oct 5, 2021)

Crispy said:


> By all reports, this worldbuilding translates very well to the screen. And I share your trepidation for how Villeneuve plans to handle the trippy shit in the 2nd half of the book. Most importantly, he wants to (and I want him to) adapt the second book as well, which makes a satisfying epilogue to the story, turning the white saviour story right on its head.
> 
> The Lynch movie looks amazing but the writing and plotting and editing and most of the acting is just not good.


The scene when the Bene Gesserit appraise Paul was handled pretty well in this version i felt, probably a good indicator of how the trippiness will be portrayed


----------



## Dandred (Oct 17, 2021)

That was actually pretty good, my wife who has never read the books or seen the first film though it was good. Not sure how they will fill the rest of the first book into a second film.


----------



## Idaho (Oct 17, 2021)

Oh for fucks sake, I'll go and watch it I suppose - beaten down by the onslaught of positive response [/grizzle grumble]


----------



## Idaho (Oct 17, 2021)

Wilf said:


> admitting I could stomach the plot driven prequels - here we go, amnesty for unpopular opinions thread


Amnesty denied. You are dead to me.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 17, 2021)

lefteri said:


> the thing that disappointed me a bit at the time was the music, which was so abstract compared to the complex melodic majesty of the original but in retrospect zimmer had to do something very different to such an iconic score



The weak part for me was the catch-up with Deckard


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 18, 2021)

Almost finished Dune. On the sexual politics its very much early 60s. Baron Harkonnen is into young boys. Shows how evil he is. This comes across as the kind of early 60s hippy homophobia.

In the novel men are men and women are women. Ying and Yang Hippy stuff runs through it. Not that the women don't have power or influence. It's that they do it in "feminine" way. So partly enlightened.

Though in end its a man Paul who is destined to be the one who can plumb the drug induced depths and transcend this. Which the Bene Gesserit woman only caste have been planning for centuries to produce. Through breeding and genetics. Knowing only a man could be the one.

Load of stuff about race consciousness and human race invigorating itself through this social conflict. Harks back to ideas of oriental decadence. The Imperial society had run its course and the human race needed reinvigorating. Its very top down. Only elite few really understand what is going on. Those with the psychic training. 

Given the time it was written in could also be about weakening of human race through post war consumerist society. There was a time pre Thatcher / Reagan where it appeared that the managed post war affluent society was the future.

I'm curious how he's going to make a film of this.


----------



## Ming (Oct 18, 2021)

shifting gears said:


> It’s brilliant, how anyone could describe it as crap is bizarre, and I’m a fully paid up fanboy of the original who was prepared for disappointment


Thing is it ends badly. Like it was set up for a sequel. 'Blade Runner: Tales of the Replicant Resistance'. And yes i know the original had an ambiguous ending but that was justified over the 'are they both replicants' and 'how long will they live' issues. OK to end on those ones IMO.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 18, 2021)

So I watched the movie in France (a week ago at a film festival).

The hand signals, fremen and Chakobsa languages were all translated into French subtitles so I missed bits of dialogue.
As a book buff that didn't affect my understanding too much but means I need a second viewing when it opens in the UK 😄.

Was expecting the other half (a Dune virgin) not to like it...

... But she did. Even at 2.5 hours in length. Which is a lot of screen time for her in one sitting.

It's visually stunning. Well acted. Covers enough of the lore for a movie but imo not enough of the lore to justify a long drawn out 2.5 hours. I'm still trying to work out what he actually used all that time for if he only progresses the story as far as Paul entering exile. I need second viewing to judge it properly.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 18, 2021)

Q for those who've seen it:
Should I be sober or stoned when I go on Thursday?


----------



## Reno (Oct 18, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Q for those who've seen it:
> Should I be sober or stoned when I go on Thursday?


I don't enjoy films when stoned as I have problems following the plot, but to each their own.


----------



## Flavour (Oct 18, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Q for those who've seen it:
> Should I be sober or stoned when I go on Thursday?


stoned.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 18, 2021)

I know the plot backwards so that'll be no prob


----------



## Idaho (Oct 18, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> Baron Harkonnen is into young boys. Shows how evil he is. This comes across as the kind of early 60s hippy homophobia


I think you are clutching at stuff here tbh. It's made clear in the books that the baron is a colossal pervert in any way imaginable and that to offend is part of his style. I am not convinced Herbert was trying to portray gays as evil.


----------



## Reno (Oct 18, 2021)

Idaho said:


> I think you are clutching at stuff here tbh. It's made clear in the books that the baron is a colossal pervert in any way imaginable and that to offend is part of his style. I am not convinced Herbert was trying to portray gays as evil.


This does not make it into the new film and I bet it’s because same sex attraction as a signifier of depravity doesn’t fly in 2021.( Not putting this in spoilers as I hope there aren’t too many people here were looking forward to the Baron getting it on  with young boys. )


----------



## stdP (Oct 18, 2021)

As much as I've been trying to avoid any trailers or spoilers for this, I endured sitting through this when I saw Bond at the flicks over the weekend. The trailer was frenetically edited in a way that I found horribly distracting, and I suspect a massive contrast to Villeneuve's usual grandiose style, but it looked far too "ordinary" at first glance, if that makes any sense. Take out the sand worms and it could have been a fly-on-the-wall documentary about soldiers in the desert.

I'll still be going to see it at the cinema, because if nothing else Villeneuve's films have always delivered on epic eye-candy, but the trailer certainly didn't have me jumping out of my seat. I'll be interested to see whether Crispy gives it the thumbs up or not...

I think it's safe to say that the visual style of Lynch's Dune has become iconic for me at least (I'd seen the 1984 film on TV before I read the books). Never really got the massive amount of adulation for the books TBH,not really my bag; I never really liked Herbert's prose and prefer hard sci-fi to all the mystical bollocks. :shrugs: But when I did read them, the imagery in my head was largely straight from Lynch in a way that didn't happen for any other "film first, book later" experiences I had.

If you can get past the clickbait title, this is probably the kindest take on Lynch's Dune for anyone still on the fence (i.e. no-one) and more-or-less the same as my opinion: a glorious, gorgeous mess of a film that couldn't have been made by anyone else. How much of its majestic incoherence is due to Lynch, the studio, or the source material itself is of course the stuff of Hollywood legend.








						Before the new version, let’s revisit 1984’s Dune—the greatest movie ever made
					

The pursuit of greatness must embrace the ridiculous.




					arstechnica.com


----------



## ska invita (Oct 18, 2021)

Reno said:


> This does not make it into the new film and I bet it’s because same sex attraction as a signifier of depravity doesn’t fly in 2021.( Not putting this in spoilers as I hope there aren’t too many people here were looking forward to the Baron getting it on  with young boys. )


sex with children is still a "tabboo" isnt it? whatever their sex


----------



## Reno (Oct 18, 2021)

ska invita said:


> sex with children is still a "tabboo" isnt it? whatever their sex


Last time I checked it was. I didn't read the book, but the "young boy" in the Lynch film was probably in his 20s and "young men" would have been better, though Gramski refers to him as a young boy. Villains being queer is an old trope to also make them appear even more depraved, you'll find it as recently as in Zach Snyder's 300.


----------



## paul mckenna (Oct 18, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> Almost finished Dune. On the sexual politics its very much early 60s. Baron Harkonnen is into young boys. Shows how evil he is. This comes across as the kind of early 60s hippy homophobia.
> 
> In the novel men are men and women are women. Ying and Yang Hippy stuff runs through it. Not that the women don't have power or influence. It's that they do it in "feminine" way. So partly enlightened.
> 
> ...


Enjoying a piece of fantasy literature must be a long dead concept to you


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 18, 2021)

paul mckenna said:


> Enjoying a piece of fantasy literature must be a long dead concept to you


Popping up to sneer again, I see. It was a thoughtful analysis that was interesting to read and you come along and peacock your ignorance and shallowness


----------



## paul mckenna (Oct 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Popping up to sneer again, I see. It was a thoughtful analysis that was interesting to read and you come along and peacock your ignorance and shallowness


Feedback innit.


----------



## David Clapson (Oct 18, 2021)

stdP said:


> this is probably the kindest take on Lynch's Dune for anyone still on the fence (i.e. no-one) and more-or-less the same as my opinion: a glorious, gorgeous mess of a film that couldn't have been made by anyone else. How much of its majestic incoherence is due to Lynch, the studio, or the source material itself is of course the stuff of Hollywood legend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love this article. And although the long edit is a bit slow in parts, I find all of it believable. I have no trouble buying into every detail. I feel sorry for people who can't do that. They must be some other species. Also, I'm still in love with Lady Jessica. I'm a bit shocked that Paul didn't jump her.  If I was the writer I'd add that to the plot. Of course it would be wrong, but how can a man not lose control when she's there?  Miss "tell me of your homeworld, usul" is a poor substitute.  Hard to believe that she's the fragrant Rachael out of Blade Runner. Her unfortunate bun emphasises her pointy ears.  She looks like an elf extra from a lost Lord of the Rings scene set in a Bangkok ladyboy bar.


----------



## Reno (Oct 18, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> I love this article. And although the long edit is a bit slow in parts, I find all of it believable. I have no trouble buying into every detail. I feel sorry for people who can't do that. They must be some other species. Also, I'm still in love with Lady Jessica. I'm a bit shocked that Paul didn't jump her.  If I was the writer I'd add that to the plot. Of course it would be wrong, but how can a man not lose control when she's there?  Miss "tell me of your homeworld, usul" is a poor substitute.  Hard to believe that she's the fragrant Rachael out of Blade Runner. Her unfortunate bun emphasises her pointy ears.  She looks like an elf extra from a lost Lord of the Rings scene set in a Bangkok ladyboy bar.


There is so much wrong with this post, I don't even know where to start. Maybe keep your infamous knob in your pants while posting ?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 18, 2021)

paul mckenna said:


> Feedback innit.


If you mean a loud obnoxious unpleasant jarring noise that comes out of faulty equipment, then you’d be correct


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 18, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> I love this article. And although the long edit is a bit slow in parts, I find all of it believable. I have no trouble buying into every detail. I feel sorry for people who can't do that. They must be some other species. Also, I'm still in love with Lady Jessica. I'm a bit shocked that Paul didn't jump her.  If I was the writer I'd add that to the plot. Of course it would be wrong, but how can a man not lose control when she's there?  Miss "tell me of your homeworld, usul" is a poor substitute.  Hard to believe that she's the fragrant Rachael out of Blade Runner. Her unfortunate bun emphasises her pointy ears.  She looks like an elf extra from a lost Lord of the Rings scene set in a Bangkok ladyboy bar.


This is a Bad Post full of Shit Attitudes and would be best retracted.




Anyway, I like the quote in that article "I love _Dune_ because it feels just as alien as something set 80 centuries in the future should."


----------



## Reno (Oct 18, 2021)

stdP said:


> As much as I've been trying to avoid any trailers or spoilers for this, I endured sitting through this when I saw Bond at the flicks over the weekend. The trailer was frenetically edited in a way that I found horribly distracting, and I suspect a massive contrast to Villeneuve's usual grandiose style, but it looked far too "ordinary" at first glance, if that makes any sense. Take out the sand worms and it could have been a fly-on-the-wall documentary about soldiers in the desert.
> 
> I'll still be going to see it at the cinema, because if nothing else Villeneuve's films have always delivered on epic eye-candy, but the trailer certainly didn't have me jumping out of my seat. I'll be interested to see whether Crispy gives it the thumbs up or not...
> 
> ...


Your take is a far from a minority take on Lynch's film, as it's been reevaluated a while ago. I find that article a little glib, all I learned from it is that the author liked the film because it's weird and cool or something, well that's David Lynch for you. A quick google produced almost nothing but kind or sympathetic takes on the film, some even give some context as to why in terms of storytelling the film is a bit of a mess:









						There's Never Been Another Blockbuster Like David Lynch's Dune, for Better or Worse
					

The David Lynch Dune film is not a masterpiece, restrained and confused as it is, but there is nothing else like it in science fiction or in general.




					www.escapistmagazine.com
				











						David Lynch’s Dune Is a Beautiful Sci-fi Disaster
					

“Don’t make a film if it can’t be the film you want to make. It’s a sick joke, and it’ll kill you.”




					www.vulture.com
				











						The Messy, Misunderstood Glory of David Lynch's Dune
					

The deeply flawed film version of Frank Herbert's novel was universally hated when it premiered 30 years ago, but it still successfully brought much of the classic sci-fi novel to life.




					www.theatlantic.com
				











						David Lynch’s Dune Might Not Be Perfect, but Its New 4K Restoration Reminds Us It’s Admirable
					

Arrow's new 4K restoration of David Lynch's Dune is stuffed with bonus features that all serve to remind us that the imperfect film is still worthy of admiration.




					www.pastemagazine.com


----------



## David Clapson (Oct 18, 2021)

Reno said:


> There is so much wrong with this post


No shit, Sherlock.


----------



## Reno (Oct 18, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> No shit, Sherlock.


What's that supposed to mean ? That was a load of sexist, misogynist and transphobic shite you posted there.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 18, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Q for those who've seen it:
> Should I be sober or stoned when I go on Thursday?



Was thinking that myself.

Now I finished the novel one of the nice touches to it is that interstellar space travel depends on spaced out drug addict pilots.

All very sixties. I did warm to Frank Herbert when I got to this.

One theme in the novel imo is drug use as part of normal society. The argument is about the right use it.I don't think Frank Herbert meant this to be contentious. But considering right wing US war on drugs after this novel was written its one of the in hindsight interesting themes in the novel.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 18, 2021)

Reno said:


> Last time I checked it was. I didn't tead the book, but the "young boy" in the Lynch film was probably in his 20s and "young men" would have been better, though Gramski refers to him as a young boy. Villains being queer is an old trope to also make them appear even more depraved, you'll find it as recently as in Zach Snyder's 300.



Agree.

Reading the novel and was reminded of 300. Atreides family are viral men are men and women are strong but feminine. The Harkonnens  represent the worst of oriental imperialist decadence.( the Western fantasy of orientalism) Women are absent as a Ying Yang counterposing force in Harkonnen family. So I'd say the "feminine" principal is the in the novel important psychic lack in the Harkonenn family. Whether this can now be seen as progressive sexual politics I'm not sure. 

A theme in novel is that Atreides and Harkonnens are genetically linked. Yet Atreides are on side of good. Novel more progressive viewpoint suggests that genetics isn't everything. Mind training and the unquantifiable plays important role. Paul is a wild card in this development of the human race. In this Frank Herbert was a humanist.

In the novel the young men /boys would come under the "barely legal"  category. It's an outdated trope


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 18, 2021)

paul mckenna said:


> Enjoying a piece of fantasy literature must be a long dead concept to you



With all due respect I think you've got me wrong on this.

Coming from growing up in Beatnik/ Hippy mileau I grew up on fantasy literature. I still read it. It's that I have ambivalent relationship to it.

Moorcock,  Gene Wolfe,  Philip Jose Farmer for example.

And of course Lord of the Rings.

Funnily enough I've more recently been reading "proper literature". As feel don't know enough about it. For example read Don Quixote. Whilst reading it thought this reminded me of fantasy off the wall Sci fi. It is a surreal novel.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> I'm a bit shocked that Paul didn't jump her. If I was the writer I'd add that to the plot. Of course it would be wrong, but how can a man not lose control when she's there?


aren't you the guy who was doing all that performative chest-beating on the Sarah Everard thread last week? Now you're posting creepy shit like this? Have a fucking word with yourself you weirdo.


----------



## David Clapson (Oct 18, 2021)

You're so perceptive.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 21, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Q for those who've seen it:
> Should I be sober or stoned when I go on Thursday?


I made the right choice 
Dune is made to be seen on the biggest loudest screen you can find.
I'll download it now and watch it at again home to be sure but I think I just saw a really good film.
Has spectacle and mood in spades.

Definitely suffers structurally by having the climactic violence in the middle of the film, so everyone who says it badly needs Part 2 is very right.
Of course nothing means anything until contracts are signed, but they're making the right sounds:


> Will we have a sequel to _Dune_? If you watch the movie you see how it ends. I think you pretty much know the answer to that,” WarnerMedia Studios and Networks Chair and CEO Ann Sarnoff told Deadline yesterday in a sit-down chat regarding the conglom’s full support of _Dune 2_.











						WarnerMedia Toppers Bullish On ‘Dune’ Sequel & More ‘Sopranos’ & ‘Matrix’ Despite Muted Box Office Results In HBO Max Day/Date Experiment
					

In a wide ranging interview with Deadline staff before earnings were released, WarnerMedia toppers Jason Kilar and Ann Sarnoff were quite pleased with the long term results of the disruptive decisi…




					deadline.com
				




EDIT: Oh, one other thing, there's a _lot_ of thopter action, which is good, because the thopters are very cool


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

Reno said:


> This does not make it into the new film and I bet it’s because same sex attraction as a signifier of depravity doesn’t fly in 2021.( Not putting this in spoilers as I hope there aren’t too many people here were looking forward to the Baron getting it on  with young boys. )



It worked as recently as _300_ iirc.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 21, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> You're so perceptive.


Anyway, no-one 'jumps' a Bene Gesserit. Not if they want to live.


----------



## Reno (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> It worked as recently as _300_ iirc.


Dune - dir. Denis Villeneuve


----------



## Thora (Oct 22, 2021)

I went to see this last night having not read the book, seen the first movie, watched trailers or read reviews.  Didn't know the story at all other than it had the worms from Tremors in it.
I really enjoyed it!  The 2.5 hours run time didn't drag at all.  Thought it was funny that it was promoted as starring Zendaya presumably to attract a young audience when she had maybe 3 lines 
Hope it is successful enough that they make the second half though.


----------



## Reno (Oct 22, 2021)

Thora said:


> I went to see this last night having not read the book, seen the first movie, watched trailers or read reviews.  Didn't know the story at all other than it had the worms from Tremors in it.
> I really enjoyed it!  The 2.5 hours run time didn't drag at all.  Thought it was funny that it was promoted as starring Zendaya presumably to attract a young audience when she had maybe 3 lines
> Hope it is successful enough that they make the second half though.



Apparently Chani is going to be a central character in the second film.









						Dune 2: Why Zendaya’s Chani Becomes A Main Character (Despite The Book)
					

Chani will co-lead Dune 2.




					screenrant.com


----------



## fucthest8 (Oct 22, 2021)

Well, I bloody loved it

As did the two people with me who had never read the books, and the one with me who had read only half of the first book.

Not really spoiler but just in case


Spoiler



I thought he did a bang-up job of covering the key bits of backstory with some deft dialogue and ignored the bits that could be safely ignored (really doesn't matter what the navigators look like or exactly what they do, you just need to know they use spice to get everyone around, couple of lines, done). All the sound was superb i.e. not just the music, oh and that  includes many key parts with _no_ music (thank you!!), of course it looked amazing, and it had the exact right level of epicness - the sweep of history, the rivalry of the houses - and the emperor of course - and the Shai-Hulud were awesome.



Yeah, bloody fantastic.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2021)

If I sit _really_ close to the TV and turn the speakers up so loud the neighbours can hear it, then maybe it'll feel the same as it did on IMAX?


----------



## fucthest8 (Oct 22, 2021)

No


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2021)

Aw


----------



## Idaho (Oct 22, 2021)

fucthest8 said:


> Well, I bloody loved it
> 
> As did the two people with me who had never read the books, and the one with me who had read only half of the first book.
> 
> ...


I agree about the navigators. Herbert didn't really bother with that in the book. Although there is a massive crossover with the concept of prescience later on.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 22, 2021)

Coming here late - is it any good?
I’m a Lynch fan so I’d likely view any remake with a suspicious eye but then Dune wasn’t really his mentalist stable either.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Coming here late - is it any good?
> I’m a Lynch fan so I’d likely view any remake with a suspicious eye but then Dune wasn’t really his mentalist stable either.


Yes it's good. If you've seen Villeneuve's other scifi films, then you know what sort of tone you'll be getting. I like that kind of thing, but some don't.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 22, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Yes it's good. If you've seen Villeneuve's other scifi films, then you know what sort of tone you'll be getting. I like that kind of thing, but some don't.



Cheers I’ll check it out. Is this Netflix stuff?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Cheers I’ll check it out. Is this Netflix stuff?


No, it's in cinemas, HBO Max or you can torrent it.
I *strongly *reccomend going to the cinema for it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 22, 2021)

Crispy said:


> No, it's in cinemas, HBO Max or you can torrent it.
> I *strongly *reccomend going to the cinema for it.


I think they mean the other movies Villeneuve has directed


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 22, 2021)

Crispy said:


> No, it's in cinemas, HBO Max or you can torrent it.
> I *strongly *reccomend going to the cinema for it.



I’ll do that then. Probably this weekend. 
Anyone fancy coming?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2021)

The sound of sand: How Hans Zimmer and 'Dune' collaborators built their sonic sci-fi world
					

Futuristic instruments made out of scrap metal, hydrophones buried in the desert...here's how the new film's soundscape was created




					ew.com


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Oct 22, 2021)

That might have been the loudest film I've ever been to see in the cinema. Great visuals, amazing audio (albeit at the expense of one or two unintelligible lines), thought Jason Momoa was miscast, but overall really good. Thought they even managed to pay subtle tribute to the 1984 version's costume design.


----------



## stdP (Oct 22, 2021)

OK - being the Cap'n Contrarian I am, it's got Crispy's and Thora's seal of approval but has anyone else seen it yet...? Tossing up whether to see it in my local flea pit or splurging on a night out with it with a mate (also not a huge fan of the books nor the Lynch version, but a fan of Villeneuve's style otherwise) in central. Villeneuve's stuff has always demanded the cinema really (and I regret seeing BR2049 at home first).

The other half hasn't shown much in the way of enthusiasm for seeing it (and I've rewatched both the Lynch film and the somewhat dodgy 2000 Hallmark series in the last week in order to avoid having to read the book again) so it's starting to verge on a geeky relapse a little but I'll pass Thora's comments on in hope of a little encouragement.



beesonthewhatnow said:


> The sound of sand: How Hans Zimmer and 'Dune' collaborators built their sonic sci-fi world
> 
> 
> Futuristic instruments made out of scrap metal, hydrophones buried in the desert...here's how the new film's soundscape was created
> ...



Is it against the law for blockbusters to be made without a Hans Zimmer score these days...?! :| I like my bombast an' all but I'm a tad worried we're down to one composer doing all of the films these days.


----------



## tommers (Oct 22, 2021)

Got it at home but booking in for Wednesday with my brother. Should be good.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 22, 2021)

Going to see it tomorrow night.  Just scanned enough of the thread to get a sense that people like it (avoiding spoilers).


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 22, 2021)

It's excellent. Proper sci-fi with a great story underneath. Even got a round of applause at the end.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2021)

I can't do the cinema still. I'll borrow a projector at some point but for now I'm d/ling the highest quality version to watch tonight. You wait years on end for a dune remake and it gets put out during a pandemic. I'll aim to catch p2 on the big screen


----------



## 8ball (Oct 22, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> It's excellent. Proper sci-fi with a great story underneath. Even got a round of applause at the end.



Proper looking forward to it now. 

Probably won't understand it, but hey...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 22, 2021)

I enjoyed it. It was definitely a cinema film, rather than a TV show.

I'm not an SF book fan, and I've never read Herbert. I have seen, and sort of enjoyed on a visceral level, Lynch's version.

This one, on the other hand, actually tells a story, for the most part without resorting to exposition - and back story comes from the overall flavour and character interaction.

The performances were good - actors fully committed, no one hamming - and it was beautifully shot. Effects felt organic. Sound design was exquisite (though the mid-sized auditorium in which I saw it clearly was not presenting it at its best). 

Action sequences looked specific to this one film, not generic (no random parkour or krav maga), there was a full spectrum in-universe look, and resistance to the temptation of explaining or over-utilising much of the (clearly well-thought out and expensively-produced) people, places or objects which filled the screen whilst the principal cast dialogued in a smaller portion of it.

A beautiful, very good film.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 23, 2021)

Just got out from a screening. I enjoyed it. Do think they should just have made it 1 5-6 hours long movie.


----------



## Dandred (Oct 23, 2021)

The only thing that disapointed me was I didn't hear the "Spice extends life, spice extends consciousness" line.


----------



## fucthest8 (Oct 23, 2021)

Idaho said:


> I agree about the navigators. Herbert didn't really bother with that in the book. Although there is a massive crossover with the concept of prescience later on.



True, but as a result that can be dealt with later, right?

So, now that I can consume reviews, whether you like Kermode or not, this pretty much nails it particularly the point about taking a straight line through a complex story


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 23, 2021)

stdP said:


> Is it against the law for blockbusters to be made without a Hans Zimmer score these days...?! :| I like my bombast an' all but I'm a tad worried we're down to one composer doing all of the films these days.



Glad it's not just me. Zimmer's score for Dunkirk was praised by everyone but I mostly recall it being more of those great big wallops of non-specific portentous racket. Zimmer does seem to lean pretty heavily on those. 

I can't bring to mind a single Hans Zimmer melody. Maybe tunes are outdated or something.


----------



## fucthest8 (Oct 23, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Cheers I’ll check it out. Is this Netflix stuff?



I think Arrival is still to hire on Amazon. The source material is a short story and the the nature of it* meant I couldn't imagine how it could be a decent film. I was _very_ impressed with the result. Worth paying to see 

Actually, that was what gave me high hopes for him doing Dune. I'm still not sure about his Blade Runner.

*I'm trying to avoid spoilers


----------



## fucthest8 (Oct 23, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> I enjoyed it. It was definitely a cinema film, rather than a TV show.
> 
> I'm not an SF book fan, and I've never read Herbert. I have seen, and sort of enjoyed on a visceral level, Lynch's version.
> 
> ...



This is also an excellent review, nice one Dave


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 23, 2021)

Anyone seen it who’s not a book wanker?
It looks awfully drab to me.


----------



## Reno (Oct 23, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Anyone seen it who’s not a book wanker?
> It looks awfully drab to me.


I saw it a few weeks ago and to my surprise, I really liked it. Never read the book and if I have problems with the film it has more to do with the source than with the adaptation.









						Dune - dir. Denis Villeneuve
					

it’s probably best to focus on reviews of the film by critics who aren’t Bookwankers (trademark U75). You won’t get a fair review from people comparing it with the book




					www.urban75.net


----------



## Thora (Oct 23, 2021)

I don't read books but I do like sci fi.


----------



## Thora (Oct 23, 2021)

Also I often don't sit through whole movies (much to Mr Thora's annoyance) but I didn't find it too long.


----------



## paul mckenna (Oct 23, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The sound of sand: How Hans Zimmer and 'Dune' collaborators built their sonic sci-fi world
> 
> 
> Futuristic instruments made out of scrap metal, hydrophones buried in the desert...here's how the new film's soundscape was created
> ...


That's really surprised me that it wasn't the same guy as Arrival. It had a very similar feel to it. Really complemented the movie.


----------



## Reno (Oct 23, 2021)

paul mckenna said:


> That's really surprised me that it wasn't the same guy as Arrival. It had a very similar feel to it. Really complemented the movie.



I'd been a huge fan of Johann Johannsson long before he got into scoring films and I once recommended him for an animated short film I was working on. He did end up doing the score and I got to meet him in the process, he was a lovely man. Very sadly he died in 2018 at the age of 48, just as he was on his way to becoming one of the most in demand film composers.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2021)

stdP said:


> Tossing up whether to see it in my local flea pit or splurging on a night out with it with a mate (also not a huge fan of the books nor the Lynch version, but a fan of Villeneuve's style otherwise) in central.


Go to town. I went to the Leicester Square IMAX and it's completely enveloping. This is one of those movies that makes full use of all the hitech toys in a whizz-bang auditorium. You want the music to rattle your guts and the landscapes to fill your vision.

EDIT: And wrt to the soundtrack, this one does actualy have melodies and motifs you can hum for days afterwards. Not just BWAAAAAP bam bam bam bam BWAAAAAP.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 23, 2021)

Am considering this 🤔 not been to the cinema since 2019 but I liked the book and even liked the first film in some ways.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 23, 2021)

The HDR 2160p torrent I got is pretty good. If I went to the cinema I'd have to wear earplugs, not have subtitles and probably miss a couple of minutes running to the toilet.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2021)

Rather annoyingly, that torrent version (which comes direct from HBO) doesn't expand to 16:9 for the bits that go full screen at IMAX. I was under the impression that's what we'd get


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 23, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Anyone seen it who’s not a book wanker?
> It looks awfully drab to me.


A non sci-fi person who with me thought it was great.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 23, 2021)

Crispy said:


> You want the music to rattle your guts


Not in a cinema I don’t. I want to watch a story, not be pummelled into my seat. 

I’m just going to torrent it and watch at home.


----------



## Reno (Oct 23, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Rather annoyingly, that torrent version (which comes direct from HBO) doesn't expand to 16:9 for the bits that go full screen at IMAX. I was under the impression that's what we'd get


The point of IMAX is the higher resolution and you won't benefit from that at home anyway. At home I find these changing aspect ratios gimmicky and distracting when I don't get the benefit of actual IMAX. Once the 4K blu-ray gets released, you'll probably get the changing aspect ratios (and I'll get this in 3D  ), but if you want to see this in IMAX you really should go and see it at IMAX.

It's the regular widescreen release version for which the film was composed anyway and which is the way most people will see this. That's how I saw it at the cinema in Berlin because it was the only release which was in English (for me) with German subtitles (for my companion).


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 23, 2021)

Reno said:


> I saw it a few weeks ago and to my surprise, I really liked it. Never read the book and if I have problems with the film it has more to do with the source than with the adaptation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just bought a ticket for a subtitled screening tomorrow, as I’m assuming it will have impenetrable dialogue


----------



## Reno (Oct 23, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Just bought a ticket for a subtitled screening tomorrow, as I’m assuming it will have impenetrable dialogue


It has a lot of weird made-up words.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 23, 2021)

Might put a bass line to the sadakar chant and head bang for the emperor.


----------



## Idaho (Oct 23, 2021)

Reno said:


> It has a lot of weird made-up words.


Who'd have thought in the far future they might have different objects, concepts, names and technical details. A real revolutionary concept in science fiction.


----------



## Reno (Oct 23, 2021)

Idaho said:


> Who'd have thought in the far future they might have different objects, concepts, names and technical details. A real revolutionary concept in science fiction.


I get that it’s all part of the world building but this type of thing is why I never read much fantasy and Dune is closer to fantasy than science fiction. It makes me so aware of the world building and it pulls me out but I’ll admit it’s more of an emotional response. Dune tries particularly hard in that regard.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 23, 2021)

Idaho said:


> Who'd have thought in the far future they might have different objects, concepts, names and technical details. A real revolutionary concept in science fiction.


It’s fucking tiresome when it’s overused. At least Ian Banks did it with his tongue firmly set in cheek. The likes of Herbert and Heinlein write in such turgid humourless prose, that the names only add to the tedium


----------



## Idaho (Oct 23, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> tongue firmly set in cheek


Anything done with this is just fucking annoying. And Banks did all good SF work with the help of either a space Uber chick or a brooding genius with a dark past.


----------



## Idaho (Oct 23, 2021)

Reno said:


> I get that it’s all part of the world building but this type of thing is why I never read much fantasy and Dune is closer to fantasy than science fiction. It makes me so aware of the world building and it pulls me out but I’ll admit it’s more of an emotional response. Dune tries particularly hard on that regard.


Closer to fantasy than SF...hmmm. I suppose we'd have to get into the semantics of genre before making any headway on that point.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 23, 2021)

Idaho said:


> Anything done with this is just fucking annoying.


I love his names for spaceships. 
It’s way better than having to read ponderous clunky prose, but agree that it can go too far when it’s self-consciously whacky like the criminally overrated Terry Pratchett


----------



## Reno (Oct 23, 2021)

Idaho said:


> Closer to fantasy than SF...hmmm. I suppose we'd have to get into the semantics of genre before making any headway on that point.


I get that technically Dune is sci-fi but if you set something in a really far off future then it becomes more fantastical and it’s not much different from setting a fiction in a long ago, alternate past. Dune has more in common with Lord of the Rings than with Arthur C. Clarke or Phillip K. Dick. It’s a matter of taste, while I enjoy elaborate world building in films, I don’t on the page.


----------



## Sue (Oct 23, 2021)

Idaho said:


> Closer to fantasy than SF...hmmm. I suppose we'd have to get into the semantics of genre before making any headway on that point.


I thought science fiction was where everything included is possible from a scientific viewpoint although the technology may not yet exist to realise it  and science fantasy is any old nonsense with added dragons and wizards?

Eta (My most controversial post ever on Urban...)


----------



## 8ball (Oct 23, 2021)

Sue said:


> I thought science fiction was where everything included is possible from a scientific viewpoint although the technology may not yet exist to realise it  and science fantasy is any old nonsense with added dragons and wizards?
> 
> Eta (My most controversial post ever on Urban...)



Which makes Star Wars fantasy.  Which is fair enough.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2021)

Reno said:


> The point of IMAX is the higher resolution and you won't benefit from that at home anyway. At home I find these changing aspect ratios gimmicky and distracting when I don't get the benefit of actual IMAX. Once the 4K blu-ray gets released, you'll probably get the changing aspect ratios (and I'll get this in 3D  ), but if you want to see this in IMAX you really should go and see it at IMAX.


It switches aspect on the screen too. Mostly it's interiors in the wide aspect and exteriors in the taller one. It does add to the immersiveness.
A laser IMAX projector is actually 4k wide, just like my TV so all I'm really missing is the sound (and the field of view unless I get uncomfortably close to the scree )


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2021)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Might put a bass line to the sadakar chant and head bang for the emperor.


That scene was so Warhammer 40K

\m/  >_< \m/


----------



## Idaho (Oct 23, 2021)

Sue said:


> I thought science fiction was where everything included is possible from a scientific viewpoint although the technology may not yet exist to realise it  and science fantasy is any old nonsense with added dragons and wizards?
> 
> Eta (My most controversial post ever on Urban...)


The definition/distinction that I like and use is that science fiction is a what if story. The characters are tossed on a tide of whatever the situation and concept demands. Fantasy, on the other hand is about the narrative of characters, the hooks of story telling - the great reverse, the epic, love, revenge, etc.

Alas by this definition almost all stories are both SF and fantasy!


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2021)

the gurney/paul sparring showed perfectly the way some of the more unwieldy book dialogue has been faultlessly replaced with acting. I din't need to be told gurney was going in extra hard after the boy had shown indifference to the fight, because he was doing it. The intensity. Stilgar is a legend in this film as in the books. I've a lot more to say but I'm going to watch again tonight- its a big thumbs up from me though. So many cool bits to process, just the scene with Leto's final revenge was amazingly done, finding Baron Harkonnen afterwards up there on the ceiling like something monstrous.


----------



## Thora (Oct 23, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Just bought a ticket for a subtitled screening tomorrow, as I’m assuming it will have impenetrable dialogue


Lots of mumbling


----------



## Thora (Oct 23, 2021)

How old is Paul supposed to be in this?  Late teens?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2021)

Fifteen in the book


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 23, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Fifteen in the book


But how long is an Arrakis year?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2021)

Well it's set in our far future, so presumeably 15 earth years.

All alien planets in scifi have convenient 1g gravity, 1000 bar atmospheres and 24h days


----------



## Reno (Oct 23, 2021)

Idaho said:


> The definition/distinction that I like and use is that science fiction is a what if story. The characters are tossed on a tide of whatever the situation and concept demands. Fantasy, on the other hand is about the narrative of characters, the hooks of story telling - the great reverse, the epic, love, revenge, etc.
> 
> Alas by this definition almost all stories are both SF and fantasy!



The reason why I could never get into fantasy like Tolkien is because I find them over-preoccupied with world building, while I found the characters to be thin archetypes and the plot a straightforward quest. I'm sure there are plenty of examples which are different, but yours is a poor distinction. Michel Faber's science fiction novels are all about the complex inner lives of its characters, who drive the plot. Michael Crichton's science fiction novels are full of narrative hooks and plot twists.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 23, 2021)

Years in Dune are measured in Earth years. It would be a bit silly having a galactic civilisation where everyone only used their own years. Paul was born in 10175 A.G. (After Guild). 0 A.G. = 10175 A.D.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 23, 2021)

Idaho said:


> The definition/distinction that I like and use is that science fiction is a what if story. The characters are tossed on a tide of whatever the situation and concept demands. Fantasy, on the other hand is about the narrative of characters, the hooks of story telling - the great reverse, the epic, love, revenge, etc.
> 
> Alas by this definition almost all stories are both SF and fantasy!











						Mohs Scale Of Science Fiction Hardness - TV Tropes
					

Note: This page was cut for reason: Moved to SlidingScale.Mohs Scale Of Science Fiction Hardness Creating red links in 4 articles.Abandoning  91648  inbound links.You may want to ask in Ask The Tropers about whether it's safe to recreate.Inexact …




					tvtropes.org
				




Someone like Iain M Banks is happy to make up all sorts of stuff that couldn't exist according to the laws of physics as we currently understand them. But he doesn't do magic or mystical mumbo-jumbo, there's always a sense that there are a set of rules and limits to what can happen in his stories. In Dune there is mumbo-jumbo aplenty, so I'd call it fantasy rather than soft sci-fi or 'space opera'. Having attempted to read it, I'd also call it complete bollocks. But it's also very long, so people who do finish it will tell everyone it's great rather than admit they just wasted however long it took to read 1100 pages of dreck.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 23, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Well it's set in our far future, so presumeably 15 earth years.
> 
> All alien planets in scifi have convenient 1g gravity, 1000 bar atmospheres and 24h days


You could argue that as the only planet we know with life has those qualities, life requires them if it is to exist anywhere else


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 23, 2021)

The ending was a bit  for no confirmed sequel. It's not like LOTR where they could just finish abruptly because everyone knew there would be another installment in exactly a year's time.


----------



## Reno (Oct 23, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> The ending was a bit  for no confirmed sequel. It's not like LOTR where they could just finish abruptly because everyone knew there would be another installment in exactly a year's time.


What's doubly annoying if the second film doesn't happen, is that the first half of the book was actually covered pretty well by the Lynch movie. It's after that, that his film becomes incoherent because it has to cover so much in such a short time. 

In terms of box office so far it's not looking too good, though I'm not sure how much money the the HBO Max release will add. None of the blockbusters released during the pandemic have made anywhere near what they would have made before and Dune is more arty and less commercial than most of these films.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2021)

Currently performing better than the studio expected, and they're using streaming numbers as well as box office to decide on the sequel, not to mention the anticipation that future installments 2+ years down the line are likely to do much better business in cinemas.









						Box Office: ‘Dune’ Voyaging to a $33 Million-Plus Opening Weekend
					

North American audiences are seeing the spice flow on the big screen. Warner Bros. and Legendary’s “Dune” is expected to open at the top of the domestic box office, targeting a $3…




					variety.com
				












						WarnerMedia Leadership on ‘Dune: Part 2,’ Discovery Merger Progress and Why ‘Ted Lasso’ Isn’t on HBO Max
					

On the eve of AT&T’s third-quarter earnings report, WarnerMedia’s top leadership invited Variety to the Warner Bros. lot in Burbank for an open-ended conversation about where the co…




					variety.com
				





> Though earnings are on the brain, _Variety_’s conversation with the WarnerMedia leadership also came on the eve of “Dune” – Denis Villenueve’s sci-fi epic that has many industry observers watching closely for box office and streaming performance.
> 
> The opening title of the movie proclaims that the project is “Dune Part 1,” and Villenueve’ previously told _Variety_ that he’s optimistic he will get to shoot a sequel to Frank Herbert’s 1965 novel. But is the WarnerMedia team ready to officially announce the green light for part 2?
> 
> ...


----------



## Reno (Oct 23, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Currently performing better than the studio expected, and they're using streaming numbers as well as box office to decide on the sequel, not to mention the anticipation that future installments 2+ years down the line are likely to do much better business in cinemas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Studios often claim they are happy when a film underperforms while its still on release. 33 million in the opening weekend for a film like this is pretty low, the crummy and relatively low budget Halloween Kills made over 50 million in its first weekend and that was also simultaneously released for streaming. But yes, it depends on what the streaming numbers add, just as long as its enough to get part 2 made.


----------



## seventh bullet (Oct 23, 2021)

Watched it  at home and enjoyed it a lot.  Will pop out to see it on a big screen next week. Visual highlights include the Atreides journey to Arrakis and the sandworm attacks. 



Spoiler



Also enjoyable was the brief Sardaukar planet scene with the gruff officer and newly minted soldiers taking part in some kind of blood ritual with Mongolian-style throat singing. The death of Liet-Kynes, taking Sardaukar troops with her into the gaping mouth of a worm, was also well done.


----------



## bemused (Oct 23, 2021)

Watched it, loved it. Shame they didn't back to back film the second part.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2021)

bemused said:


> Watched it, loved it. Shame they didn't back to back film the second part.


Villeneuve wanted to, but the studio wouldn't take the risk. In retrospect he's glad he didn't, as filming was exhausting enough with just one film.
As per:
Nolan interviewing Villeneuve at the Director's Guild. Questions from a director to a director, so lots of great stories about how the film came to be.


----------



## pogofish (Oct 23, 2021)

Sue said:


> I thought science fiction was where everything included is possible from a scientific viewpoint although the technology may not yet exist to realise it  and science fantasy is any old nonsense with added dragons and wizards?
> 
> Eta (My most controversial post ever on Urban...)



Also, with Dune, you have a large amount of historical allegory thrown-in to the mix, which IMO tips it much further into the fantasy realm than any other.

Remember the background to the time Dune was written.  Saudi Arabia was still America's exotic new best friend in the Middle East and the romantic tale of Ibn Saud, the handsome young prince in the desert, escaping with his family (incl his mother) and being sheltered by, then winning over the fiercely independent Bedouin, before uniting the other tribes and driving out the double-dealing Imperial (Ottoman) lackeys who had usurped the peninsula to form a tough but honourable new state, played right into the US narrative of the time - Which made justifying an alliance far easier than with the more corrupt and in all ways more problematic regime of the real post WW2 Saudi.







I have a download and I am daring myself not to watch it - I think really should go and see this in the cinema proper..?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2021)

If you see one film on a big screen during a pandemic, see this one


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Oct 24, 2021)

Just seen it, loved it. Only real criticism* is The Voice. Totally wrong. I imagined it as seductive rather than barking, indeed I haven’t read the book in some time but that’s also how I remember it being described. Obviously wrong enough to post about it before going to bed 

*other than the cannon issue of the Fremen’s depiction now feeling culturally appropriative, but I’m not sure quite how much they could do about that


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 24, 2021)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Just seen it, loved it. Only real criticism* is The Voice. Totally wrong. I imagined it as seductive rather than barking, indeed I haven’t read the book in some time but that’s also how I remember it being described. Obviously wrong enough to post about it before going to bed
> 
> *other than the cannon issue of the Fremen’s depiction now feeling culturally appropriative, but I’m not sure quite how much they could do about that


I felt the first use of it  at the breakfast table worked the best.  It felt unusual  and  a medley of  voices.

The other uses felt more growly

I though at first  they were trying to  make it  so the  voice  sounds like the person it';s  being  used on.  SO when paul uses it on jessica it sounds a bit like  her   but when he uses it  on the  troops   itsa  more like them.  Not sure  about  how the hand box lady sounded.  Perhaps that was meant to  sound like paul.  will have to  rewatch at some time.


either way  it  was  a bit naff   but   I think  it  must be bloody difficult to do.


----------



## Reno (Oct 24, 2021)

Talking of hand box lady, I thought it was a bit of a shame to cast Charlotte Rampling and then to cover her up with a heavy face veil so you couldn't see her.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 24, 2021)

Well, that was bonkers!


----------



## pogofish (Oct 24, 2021)

Just treating myself to a nice fried breakfast before going in to the cinema - my resolve held last night!


----------



## pogofish (Oct 24, 2021)

Thoroughly enjoyed that! Even with the truncation of the outlying parts of the story to keep things on track, it moved along pretty well and some of the casting choices that concerned me to begin with didn't seem too far wrong after all.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 24, 2021)

As I've now read Dune and started on Dune Messiah ( due to Crispy) perhaps I will see these films differently.

I watched Lynch version last night on Arrow DVD. He tries to do the book in one film. But puts in some stuff from second book. The Navigator in the tank.

The Steam punk costume and design are great. The Harkonnen vllians are a bit over the top. What he does get right is the weirdness of this culture. Watching his film version on back of reading the novel and I thought yes this future culture is insane. On that level Lynch film does get it right

Not sure that Herbert meant this but this novel is a Sci fi dystopia.

On that I think the Lynch film had a point.

In the film it does visualise well the Jihad.

What is lost is the interior monologue where Paul can foresee the Jihad but is trying and failing to avert it.

His veneration as a god is not something he is comfortable with in the books.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 25, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> What is lost is the interior monologue where Paul can foresee the Jihad but is trying and failing to avert it.


interior monologue always has to be sacrificed in book to film translations - its clunky to have a constant voice over of internal thoughts < could even be the biggest difference between books and films in general, not being able to hear internal thoughts


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 25, 2021)

I watched the lastest Dune with someone who has not read the books, immediately followed by watching the first half of the 1984 movie. They said the Lynch film makes things a lot clearer - what Kwisatch Haderach means, the Bene Geserit scheming in relation to it, the plotting to kill Duke Leto etc, even the pain box.


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 25, 2021)

Sue said:


> I thought science fiction was where everything included is possible from a scientific viewpoint although the technology may not yet exist to realise it  and science fantasy is any old nonsense with added dragons and wizards?
> 
> Eta (My most controversial post ever on Urban...)



I say roughly this is correct. Though its not always clear cut. 

The Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny was attempt at a cross over. Astronauts marooned on a backward planet reinvent themselves as gods to survive on alien planet. 

I'd also say their is section of Sci fi which deals with inner space. Ballard is prime example. 

I include Dune in this category. I'd also suggest that this is Science fiction in that Frank Herbert was interested in Zen Buddhism for example. He is looking in the novel at possibility of humans evolving by training of minds, genetics and drug use to produce super humans. Buddhists for example can train their minds making them different from the average person. 

So I wouldn't say this was fantasy. He is looking at possibility of a different sort of human development instead of AI. The path society has gone down is AI. Its interesting theme in the novel. Starts with the black box test at start of novel and in both the films. What makes humans different from animals.


----------



## seventh bullet (Oct 25, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> As I've now read Dune and started on Dune Messiah ( due to Crispy) perhaps I will see these films differently.
> 
> I watched Lynch version last night on Arrow DVD. He tries to do the book in one film. But puts in some stuff from second book. The Navigator in the tank.





Spoiler



In the new one, the imperial delegates who visit Caladan a few mins in for a formal ceremony that serves little purpose other than to demonstrate that the as yet unseen emperor is awesome,  we have what I guess are to be future navigators in the early days of training, heads encased in big helmets, tripping out on spice gas.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 25, 2021)

🤣


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## cybershot (Oct 25, 2021)

Saw it yesterday at IMAX screen and really enjoyed it. Hope the rest get made now!


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## DotCommunist (Oct 25, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> He is looking in the novel at possibility of humans evolving by training of minds, genetics and drug use to produce super humans



Collective unconscious is another of Herbert's recurring themes. In a collaborative trilogy unrelated to Dune (the voidship books with Bill Ransom) there's also focus on ecology and collective memory/unconscious. A cast out population of mystics and fighters who have learned to flow with the terrible power of the planet. In Dune its the idea of a collective memory down a genetic line, in The Jesus Incident/Lazarus Effect its the idea of a planetwide sentient kelp that can store and record human consciousness and memories. Dune is a desert, Pandora is a world sea.


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## Brainaddict (Oct 25, 2021)

I've just been looking at Lynch's Dune again and was disappointed when I started watching the extended cut. Then I downloaded the original cut and realised that was the one I saw years ago on a big screen. I'm glad it was that version I saw first. It may be less comprehensible, but it has a lot less dreck in it.


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## Idaho (Oct 25, 2021)

I've never seen the extended version. I had heard that it was a bit flabbby.


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## Brainaddict (Oct 25, 2021)

Idaho said:


> I've never seen the extended version. I had heard that it was a bit flabbby.


It is. It also seems to be the one most commonly available for download for some reason.


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## Crispy (Oct 25, 2021)

There are some interesting bits in it, but the 10 minute long narrated introduction really sets the tedious tone


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## stdP (Oct 25, 2021)

I'm not sure which version of the Lynch one I've got (t'was a bluray I imported from germany) but unlike the rip I downloaded 20 years ago had a very "can see Lynch hating this" intro by Virginia Madsen, the BD version didn't. Can't remember which version I saw first but I never thought the Lynch version needed to explain half as much as it did :shrugs:

Cinema tickets have been booked for friday at my local Everyman (my mate didn't fancy central, plus we've got seats we know to be good) so I guess we'll see what happens then. I'll try and resist my urge to spit on the floor though.


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## David Clapson (Oct 25, 2021)

Idaho said:


> I've never seen the extended version. I had heard that it was a bit flabbby.


It's an example of how not to edit. Terrible, amateurish, hopeless.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 26, 2021)




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## Gramsci (Oct 26, 2021)

Just seen it. Found showing at fairly big screen in afternoon. This must be seen on big screen. I saw it at Curzon's Renoir screen in Bloomsbury (London). Which also has very good Dolby sound system.

Seeing it in good big screen and its an immersive experience. Cinema was made for this kind of film.

It follows the first novel faithfully but does part of it. It kind of makes sense where it stops. I hope he gets to do the second film.

Its been criticised for being a bit slow. I think Villeneuve has got the pace right. The book builds up slowly. At beginning it takes time to understand all the different groups in this society. This is an action film but it has the pace of old school 70s epics. This in some ways is old fashioned film making. It plays the story straight. Lynch's Dune camps it up more.

I was particularly impressed by how he's managed to translate the psychological interior monologues onto the screen. Lots of time watching people's faces.

He gets the Bene Gesserit spot on. The Baron Harkonnen is influenced by Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now.

Translating Paul onscreen is difficult. Having seen Lynch version as well its hard to get beyond the pretty boy looks. Made me think that in the novel Paul is a cypher. He's a to perfect product of centuries of Bene Gesserit breeding for a specific purpose. He's meant to be to good.

So on that I'm not going to criticize either director. It's a peculiarity of the novel. That is more noticeable when visualised onscreen.

Jihad is not specifically mentioned. It is in the Lynch version. The possible Jihad is in this film. The visions Paul has come from the novel. The film doesn't shy away from the messianic thread in the novel.

I thought it was a masterpiece. He's managed to film a novel that was considered unfilmable.

As in the novel Villeneuve does world building. And makes it a stunning piece of cinema.

I found it a moving film despite already knowing the story.


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## Crispy (Oct 26, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> This is an action film but it has the pace of old school 70s epics.


Exactly this. Once they do part 2 (which is looking very likely now) I'd happily watch the lot in one go, with an interval just like those epics.


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## Crispy (Oct 26, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Once they do part 2 (which is looking very likely now)


And as if by magic...



(October 2023 according to Variety)


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## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2021)




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## David Clapson (Oct 26, 2021)

I saw it last night. For me it has none of the mystery, wonder, horror or tragedy of the David Lynch film. The characterisation is thin, the design is uninspired and the soundtrack is tedious. It's all on the same level as a mediocre TV series. Some of the scenes are word for word the same as the Lynch film, giving an opportunity for a side by side comparison. For example, when Paul and Jessica are being flown out to the desert by the Harkonnens.  If you watch them both I don't see how the 2021 film can be judged as anything better than an embarrassment. Even the Baron's scenes fell flat. If you can't make Stellan Skarsgaard's Baron even a tenth as horrifying as Kenneth McMillan's, you're just wasting everyone's time.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 26, 2021)

I guess anyone who has ever wondered 'what would the Film Forum equivalent of Orang Utan-does-FEB-thread look like?' has an answer to their question


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> I guess anyone who has ever wondered 'what would the Film Forum equivalent of Orang Utan-does-FEB-thread look like?' has an answer to their question


?????


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## stdP (Oct 26, 2021)

Too all those of you who've seen it and are hoping for the sequel, looks like its already performed well enough to be greenlit.









						'Dune' sequel greenlit by Legendary and Warner Bros.
					

Denis Villeneuve will get the chance to create the second film of his planned two-part adaptation of Frank Herbert's "Dune."




					www.cnbc.com


----------



## 8ball (Oct 26, 2021)

Uh, oh, greenlighting…

Sure that’s bad.


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## D'wards (Oct 27, 2021)

Absolutely wonderful. 

Carry on like this and Villeneuve will be an all time great director.

Sicaro demonstrated he's not a one trick pony either.

Wonder what he has planned after part 2.
Would like to see him try another non sci fi again


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## Crispy (Oct 27, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Wonder what he has planned after part 2.


Part 3 









						DUNE Director Denis Villeneuve Teases Trilogy Plans
					

In advance of the Venice Film Festival, "Dune" director Denis Villeneuve teases his plans for multiple sequels, including an adaptation of "Dune Messiah." The post DUNE Director Denis Villeneuve Teases Trilogy Plans appeared first on Nerdist.




					www.yahoo.com


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## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Absolutely wonderful.
> 
> Carry on like this and Villeneuve will be an all time great director.
> 
> ...


He already proved that with the half a dozen films he made before that


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## D'wards (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> He already proved that with the half a dozen films he made before that


Is six films enough to be regarded alongside Scorcese or Hitchcock or Spielberg?

Yes, it probably is tbf. Francis Ford Coppola has less than 6 brilliant films


----------



## Sue (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> He already proved that with the half a dozen films he made before that





D'wards said:


> Is six films enough to be regarded alongside Scorcese or Hitchcock or Spielberg?
> 
> Yes, it probably is tbf. Francis Ford Coppola has less than 6 brilliant films


Nah. He hasn't made six great films. Maybe two or three very good films, but no great ones yet.


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## D'wards (Oct 27, 2021)

Sue said:


> Nah. He hasn't made six great films. Maybe two or three very good films, but no great ones yet.


Arrival was pretty special but I take your point


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Is six films enough to be regarded alongside Scorcese or Hitchcock or Spielberg?
> 
> Yes, it probably is tbf. Francis Ford Coppola has less than 6 brilliant films


Some who are considered the greatest have only made a couple of films. But I thought you were talking about genre by mentioning Sicario. Thought the one trick pony reference was to with his more recent blockbuster films which have been sci-fi, with the exception of Sicario. Was just saying he’s made other films before that which were thrillers like Sicario (and a couple of them are weird as fuck, aside from whatever genre you want to assign to them)


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## Gramsci (Oct 27, 2021)

I


Crispy said:


> Part 3
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After what you posted I've started reading Dune Messiah. About quarter way through. Its as I think you say turning the story on its head. Kind of thinking its not just a sequal but important part of the original story.


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## Gramsci (Oct 27, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> I saw it last night. For me it has none of the mystery, wonder, horror or tragedy of the David Lynch film. The characterisation is thin, the design is uninspired and the soundtrack is tedious. It's all on the same level as a mediocre TV series. Some of the scenes are word for word the same as the Lynch film, giving an opportunity for a side by side comparison. For example, when Paul and Jessica are being flown out to the desert by the Harkonnens.  If you watch them both I don't see how the 2021 film can be judged as anything better than an embarrassment. Even the Baron's scenes fell flat. If you can't make Stellan Skarsgaard's Baron even a tenth as horrifying as Kenneth McMillan's, you're just wasting everyone's time.



I went back and looked at the desert scene in the Lynch film again. Gut reaction on that scene ( leaving out the improvement in special effects) is that your right on that particular scene. As I've said before the Lynch film has its moments.

They are very different films made in different eras.

I felt the Baron Harkonnen in Villeneuve film and the Lynch film miss something. They take up aspects and accentuate them. In the novel the Baron Harkonnen is much more complex character. In the novel you get much more of his interior dialogue. Secondly the Villeneuve Harkonnen are cleaned up version. The Harkonnen are dysfunctional family unlike the Atreidies. But imo the Lynch version is to camp.

I did think characterisation is better in the Villeneuve film. Actually better than in the novel.

They are very different films. In a way the Villeneuve more straightforward approach is a sign of our times. Since Lynch made his film actual insane Jihad ( Isis) barbaric cruelty (Yugoslav wars) have happened.

Perhaps Villeneuve making a more realistic version is more appropriate now.

His film Incendies dealt with societies where violence was the norm. I was reminded of it when watching Dune.

So imo both films have their place.


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## Gramsci (Oct 28, 2021)

A disturbing thing that the Villeneuve film brought out was to me this future society is Fascist. Seeing the militarism brought to life on screen (which is in the novel) made me see parts of the novel in different light. 

A future society where genetic breeding bring about super humans. The Mentats, the warriors (Duncan), the Barons are all superior beings who rule the masses. The Bene Gesserit manipulate societies ( implant myths as they did with Fremen of Dune) and plan genetic breeding. All of which produce a ruling elite

The choice is benevolent dictators ( Atreidies) or cruel ones ( Harkonenns). The Fremen are the noble savage.


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## stdP (Oct 28, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> A disturbing thing that the Villeneuve film brought out was to me this future society is Fascist. Seeing the militarism brought to life on screen (which is in the novel) made me see parts of the novel in different light.
> 
> A future society where genetic breeding bring about super humans. The Mentats, the warriors (Duncan), the Barons are all superior beings who rule the masses. The Bene Gesserit manipulate societies ( implant myths as they did with Fremen of Dune) and plan genetic breeding. All of which produce a ruling elite
> 
> The choice is benevolent dictators ( Atreidies) or cruel ones ( Harkonenns). The Fremen are the noble savage.



<derail from the thread>

Wasn't this patently obvious from the first time you read the novel...? Most of the problem I had with Herbert (and Heinlein whom I found to be in a similar vein) was that both I found their political outlook to be overtly fascist (something that wasn't helped by what I thought was leaden and humourless prose).

I'm not intending this disrespectfully, it was just such a strong feeling when I first read it that I assumed most people here would have felt the same way. I always saw _Dune_ as throwing the western imperialism of _Lawrence of Arabia_ and a bunch of other literature in to that wonderful "we're definitely not an evil empire!" blender of post-war optimism that the USA possessed.


----------



## tommers (Oct 28, 2021)

Just seen it. It was good. 

That's my review.


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## D'wards (Oct 28, 2021)

What do we think of the casting? 

Timothee Chalamet is a very pretty man, in both a feminine and boyish way simultaneously and looks what we would call a "weakling" in less enlightened times. 
Its been years since I read the book, is this how he is portrayed in that?

Jason momoa is perfect casting as recall - big tough warrior


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2021)

tommers said:


> Just seen it. It was good.
> 
> That's my review.


I salute your brevity


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## Cerv (Oct 28, 2021)

saw it tonight at the Imax. loved it.

could lose yourself for hours in Chalamet's eyes



D'wards said:


> Timothee Chalamet is a very pretty man, in both a feminine and boyish way simultaneously and looks what we would call a "weakling" in less enlightened times.
> Its been years since I read the book, is this how he is portrayed in that?


he's described as "small for his age" early in the novel.
I think also there's a part later where the Baron leches over Paul's boyish good looks.


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## pogofish (Oct 28, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Jason momoa is perfect casting as recall - big tough warrior



I always took Duncan Idaho as a sort of dashing older brother-type who Paul looked-up to, not a much older mentor - and that the Harkonnen boys were pretty much that, reasonably co-aged with Paul but it has been a good while since I last read the book.

Also, did anyone else think that one of the major scenes with the Baron bore an uncanny resemblance to the scene where Kurtz reveals himself in Apocalypse Now.


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## D'wards (Oct 28, 2021)

There was a shot early on that featured Paul and Duncan together and I remarked to myself how these are two perfect specimens of male beauty but in completely different ways.


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## David Clapson (Oct 28, 2021)

Baffled that anyone likes this tedious embarrassment.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2021)

Have some chips! Football is for ruffians!


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## platinumsage (Oct 28, 2021)

I've found it quite forgettable. Having seen the Lynch film straight after, it's that which sticks in my mind when I try to recall a particular character or scene.


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## Gramsci (Oct 28, 2021)

pogofish said:


> Also, did anyone else think that one of the major scenes with the Baron bore an uncanny resemblance to the scene where Kurtz reveals himself in Apocalypse Now.



Yes. Said this in post 481.


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## pogofish (Oct 28, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> Yes. Said this in post 481.



I badly need an eye test! - I just read the end of someone's email as - "Has anyone got anything else for my scrotum"


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## 8ball (Oct 28, 2021)

I had a momentary feeling of relative manliness when I noticed even Jason Momoa needs to remove a glove by pulling at each fingertip first.

Maybe a props person had told him to stop ripping the fragile gloves they had just sewn, in which case I would like to thank the props department.


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## RileyOBlimey (Oct 28, 2021)

Saw it at an IMAX and wasn’t bored at any stage.

He fucked up the first big and last scene but overall? Pretty, pretty good.

4.5 O’Blimey stars.


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## Gramsci (Oct 28, 2021)

stdP said:


> <derail from the thread>
> 
> Wasn't this patently obvious from the first time you read the novel...? Most of the problem I had with Herbert (and Heinlein whom I found to be in a similar vein) was that both I found their political outlook to be overtly fascist (something that wasn't helped by what I thought was leaden and humourless prose).
> 
> I'm not intending this disrespectfully, it was just such a strong feeling when I first read it that I assumed most people here would have felt the same way. I always saw _Dune_ as throwing the western imperialism of _Lawrence of Arabia_ and a bunch of other literature in to that wonderful "we're definitely not an evil empire!" blender of post-war optimism that the USA possessed.



I don't think this is a derail. Previous poster has also mentioned how Dune was affected by the politics of the time. pogofish post 458

I now remember trying to read the novel years ago and giving it up. I was more into Moorcock. Then later China Mieville, Le Guin, Paul McAuley, Banks among others.

Had a go at reading Dune and finished it this time. Sometimes when reading I think one must just go with the flow and reflect later.

This is a political novel. He sets up a whole society. I think your correct on that generation of US Sci Fi writers. An exception would be Delaney.

What I am interested in is how Villeneuve will interpret the second half which is Paul's rise to power as God/ Emperor. Funnily enough in first novel the excerpts from Princess Irulan histories basically tell reader what is going to happen.

The bloody Jihad is only referenced in novel at second hand. In Dune Messiah as well

Villeneuve has directed what could be seen as dystopias- Sicario, Incendies. Modern day one's.

I kind of hope he builds on the Dune novels to make them relevant to present day. Which would link it to his earlier work. The world Herbert created is a dystopia. Even if he didn't mean it exactly that way.

Im actually enjoying reading Dune Messiah. Paul is longer the pretty boy underdog. Rebellion is in the air.


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## platinumsage (Oct 29, 2021)

For those who can't wait until 2023 for the sequel, this mockbuster was released today











						Planet Dune (2021) - IMDb
					

Planet Dune: Directed by Glenn Campbell, Tammy Klein. With Sean Young, Emily Killian, Anna Telfer, Cherish Michael. A crew on a mission to rescue a marooned base on a desert planet turns deadly when the crew finds themselves hunted and attacked by the planet's apex predators: giant sand worms.




					www.imdb.com


----------



## agricola (Oct 29, 2021)

Saw it this morning, was pretty much blown away by it.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 29, 2021)

agricola said:


> Saw it this morning, was pretty much blown away by it.


Planet Dune is that good?​


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 29, 2021)

It's no _Sharknado_ but still


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## D'wards (Oct 29, 2021)

Sean Young!

Wonder how much she got for that?


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## stdP (Oct 29, 2021)

So, after seeing Villeneuve's _Dune_ this afternoon I'm confident in saying I was... whelmed by it. It had many good bits, and several great bits, but seldom few bits that I found genuinely awe-inspiring in the way that I thought Dune should be. Perhaps it trod too familiar a path? I'm not quite sure yet. I'm not trying to say it's a bad film; it very definitely isn't and I was happy to see it knowing the second part was already in the works, there's just things missing from it that I hoped would be there.

Firstly - the production design, something I've already mentioned in this thread as one of the things I most loved about the Lynch adaptation. This film just isn't as good. Villeneuve's predilection for chunky 80's-inflected utilitarianism were well suited for the designs on Arrakis itself but I really felt that after 10,000 years of Empire, the mechanics and architecture of Atreides and Harkonnen and the Spacing Guild and everything else deserved a little bit more variety than we saw. The film denies us the presence of the Emperor and their family (at a guess because they didn't know if the second half was going to be made) so hopefully they'll dare something a little more _outre_ for the next installment.

It's a shame, because much of the Arrakis production design was rather brilliantly realised. I especially liked the old Imperial outpost, full of parched encyclopaedias and millennia-old sandblasted concrete. I'm just sad I don't think I saw enough of it.

There was less exposition of the Emperor's/Harkkonen's plan to oust Atredies than even in the Lynch version. I felt is deserved at least a little more attention than it got - I felt it would have worked so much better if the viewers were aware this was the sort of thing that was habitually planned over decades of feuds (as well as the knowledge that the navigators were in on it also), but it was treated in a rather offhanded fashion.

Gurney, for too much of the film, was just too damned grumpy and with all the charisma of a deflated whoopee cushion - give me Patrick Stewart and his pug o'war any day. I could cope with him being grumpy prior to the departure from Caladan, but I don't remember him being so permanently stony-faced. Wasn't he meant to be the musician and the poet as well as the military mastermind? Instead he just seemed like he'd kept snagging a bollock in his flies.

Further on that... maybe because it's the affection I have for the Lynch version, but I _really_ felt this film was in need of slightly more ham. Was Kenneth Williams' Baron completely OTT? Yes, of course. But I'd have given my back teeth to see anything half as entertaining or as existentially terrifying from the villains this time, and a petulant Rabban was about as close as we got. Despite his resplendently creepy make-up and demeanour, Skaarsgard sadly felt rather milquetoast - I just felt he's not been given much to get his teeth in to.

I previously mentioned being worried about another Hans Zimmer score du jour, and I think I was justified because it was too much of what I already expected - big, throbbing, predictably tribal beats and horn sections galore. But there were sections that were crying out for a more delicate orchestral treatment. Please, someone introduce Hans to a string quartet and a flautist. Maximalism's served him well for much of his career but I think he's strayed too far from portraying sensitivity. I'm hoping it's not just my ears, but the relentless thumps and swooshes frequently made some parts of the dialogue completely unintelligible.

The shield mechanics were portrayed much better in this film than in any other adaptation, and - fittingly for something so endemic - were done so with practically zero exposition. As... interesting as Lynch's depiction of duelling cardboard boxes was, I was happy to see it take a back seat to some good ol' fashioned swordplay mechanics. The fight scenes in this were understatedly brilliant.

The thing I was most disappointed about was the complete lack of "Hey, look, the Atreides aren't complete bastards like the Obviously Evil Harkonnen guys were!" episode that I feel was important to Paul and Jessica being accepted in to the Fremen tribes at all. It seemed that no sooner had Atreides unpacked their suitcases that they'd been betrayed and killed. As well as not giving us an idea of how much nicer to the natives they were than the Harkonnen, it also denied us a look at the customs and culture of the inhabitants of Arrakeen and the overall texture of the planet itself. Shadout Mapes barely got a look-in and there was precious little discussion of the ecology of the planet at all. I can understand Villeneuve maybe wanting to rush through this but so as not to get too bogged down in the way that some feel the first half of the Lynch film did, but I feel like we lose out on a lot of important cultural fabric in the process.

So, that's the relatively smaller potatoes that stdP didn't entirely get on with out of the way. I think it'd be a sin for anyone who's mildly curious to not see this film, and like any Villeneuve film since _Sicario_ it really demands to be seen on the big screen.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 29, 2021)

stdP said:


> Was Kenneth Williams' Baron completely OTT?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 29, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> View attachment 294702


Dune: Spice Must Carry On


----------



## stdP (Oct 30, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> View attachment 294702



Name blindness ahoy  Kenneth McMillan of course.

But now you mention it the thought of Kenneth Williams as Baron Harkkonen, Sid James and Paul Atreides and Charles Hawtrey as the Emperor isn't without its charms.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 30, 2021)

Barbara Windsor: Paul.. Shove your hand into my box!


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 30, 2021)

stdP said:


> So, after seeing Villeneuve's _Dune_ this afternoon I'm confident in saying I was... whelmed by it. It had many good bits, and several great bits, but seldom few bits that I found genuinely awe-inspiring in the way that I thought Dune should be. Perhaps it trod too familiar a path? I'm not quite sure yet. I'm not trying to say it's a bad film; it very definitely isn't and I was happy to see it knowing the second part was already in the works, there's just things missing from it that I hoped would be there.
> 
> Firstly - the production design, something I've already mentioned in this thread as one of the things I most loved about the Lynch adaptation. This film just isn't as good. Villeneuve's predilection for chunky 80's-inflected utilitarianism were well suited for the designs on Arrakis itself but I really felt that after 10,000 years of Empire, the mechanics and architecture of Atreides and Harkonnen and the Spacing Guild and everything else deserved a little bit more variety than we saw. The film denies us the presence of the Emperor and their family (at a guess because they didn't know if the second half was going to be made) so hopefully they'll dare something a little more _outre_ for the next installment.
> 
> ...



Good Post. 

On the ham. I actually think Villeneuve was closer to the novel. Frank Herbert saw this as serious story. No ham. So on this Villeneuve was right. 

What Villeneuve left out of Harkonnen was sex and the in family feuds. The reason why Bene Gesserit could not breed with Count was that he wasn't interested in women. A criticism of film is that it is cleaned up version. 

Starting on Dune Messiah and I'm hoping the second film covers second half of Dune and Dune Messiah. 

Been reading more on Frank Herbert and he meant Dune Messiah to be critical of this kind of leader


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 30, 2021)

Los Angeles Review of Books has several articles on Dune.









						Los Angeles Review of Books
					

Are there any liberals on Arrakis? Daniel Immerwahr considers the backstory and political impact of Frank Herbert's "Dune."...




					lareviewofbooks.org
				




This includes Bio of Frank Herbert. Very American Sci fi writer. Grandparents were socialist. Set up commune. He grew up in the area. Got to know Native American people. Who taught him how to live off the land.

Unlike his socialist grandparents he became Republican. This was tempered by his interest in drugs, Zen Buddhism, personal knowledge and respect for native American people. He wrote the novel just before the LSD generation. The Hippy trippy aspects made him sought after public speaker.

So the Fremen are survalist people who don't depend on the state. Republican freedom lovers. As portrayed in film.

In film and book they are the one group who the Emperor hasn't been able to rule.


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## stdP (Oct 31, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> On the ham. I actually think Villeneuve was closer to the novel. Frank Herbert saw this as serious story. No ham. So on this Villeneuve was right.
> 
> What Villeneuve left out of Harkonnen was sex and the in family feuds. The reason why Bene Gesserit could not breed with Count was that he wasn't interested in women. A criticism of film is that it is cleaned up version.



Regardless of any value judgement on "rightness", my personal preference for this is definitely needing at least a hint of pastrami and a thin slice of gruyere. As I've alluded to, I don't really hold the book in any reverence and found it dour in too many places. Lynch's Baron I found an utter delight at how cartoonishly evil he and McMillan were prepared to take him, in a performance that's barely been equalled since. Comes down to personal preference I guess. :shrugs:

I'm assuming that the second half of Villeneuve's Dune might give us more in the way of the Harkonnen feuds (presumably they're going to introduce Feyd* in this manner), although I dare say they'll leave the sex out of it. Arguments about "is he just another gay/paedo baddie?" aside, I think the first part got a 12 cert, so I think there's little chance of an overtly sexual them developing in the next in order for them to keep the rating.

* Incidentally, I'm hoping for Robert Pattinson but he's probably past his boyish Sting phase by now


----------



## Combustible (Oct 31, 2021)

stdP said:


> The thing I was most disappointed about was the complete lack of "Hey, look, the Atreides aren't complete bastards like the Obviously Evil Harkonnen guys were!" episode that I feel was important to Paul and Jessica being accepted in to the Fremen tribes at all. It seemed that no sooner had Atreides unpacked their suitcases that they'd been betrayed and killed.





Spoiler



I think that was covered by Leto's meeting with Stilgar, and him  saying that he wanted to form an alliance with the Fremen. The film seems to suggest that their acceptance by the Fremen was largely due to many Fremen already thinking Paul may be the Messiah, I can't remember if that was such a major factor in the book.


----------



## mentalchik (Oct 31, 2021)

Son took me to the IMAX to see it last night....my favourite book of all time, my copy is over 40 years old and have been reading it all my life, son doesn't know it at all.....he loved it, it looks amazing and i thought it was fucking awesome ( cried a little bit at one point) casting was spot on imo....

brilliant job and waiting for part two is unbearable...


----------



## agricola (Oct 31, 2021)

stdP said:


> * Incidentally, I'm hoping for Robert Pattinson but he's probably past his boyish Sting phase by now



having seen the first twenty minutes of (the absolutely appalling)_ The King_, in which both Chalamet and Pattinson appear, I hope not


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 31, 2021)

Think I need to see this just to hear the throat singing very loud on a cinema sound system


----------



## killer b (Nov 1, 2021)

wrong Dune, but a friend draws my attention to this wild kids colouring book they released for the Lynch Dune. 









						These odd ‘Dune’ coloring books adapted from the David Lynch film are ‘brilliantly disgusting’
					

The making and release of the 1984 adaptation of Frank Herbert’s mega-successful sci-fi epic Dune, directed by of all people David Lynch, is one of those events that is so improbable, sometimes it feels like it can’t have happened. For a generation weaned on Star Wars and Alien, it may have...




					dangerousminds.net


----------



## pogofish (Nov 1, 2021)

stdP said:


> The shield mechanics were portrayed much better in this film than in any other adaptation, and - fittingly for something so endemic - were done so with practically zero exposition. As... interesting as Lynch's depiction of duelling cardboard boxes was, I was happy to see it take a back seat to some good ol' fashioned swordplay mechanics. The fight scenes in this were understatedly brilliant.



I have a memory from the time that the shield scenes in the Lynch version were a maybe last minute addition?  The production had gone-on for long enough to have been gazumped by bluescreen  and was stuck with old-school matte box/model effects, so something had to be found to increase its appeal as these techniques were now seriously unfashionable amongst audiences after Star Wars had seriously upped the production values of all sci-fi - so they pulled the "Uses the very latest computer graphics" card to try and increase its audience appeal.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 1, 2021)

killer b said:


> wrong Dune, but a friend draws my attention to this wild kids colouring book they released for the Lynch Dune.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't be the only one intrigued by what 'Paul's No-Bake Spice Cookies' taste like


----------



## killer b (Nov 1, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> I can't be the only one intrigued by what 'Paul's No-Bake Spice Cookies' taste like


I was gutted when I scrolled down and found the recipe missing


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2021)

The Dune Recipe for No-Bake Spice Cookies
					

dune, cookies, recipe, dune activity book, dune no-bake spice cookies, dune cookie recipe, dune recipe, david lynch's dune




					www.geekwithcurves.com


----------



## killer b (Nov 1, 2021)

I mean, I'd eat them.


----------



## pogofish (Nov 1, 2021)

stdP said:


> Firstly - the production design, something I've already mentioned in this thread as one of the things I most loved about the Lynch adaptation. This film just isn't as good. Villeneuve's predilection for chunky 80's-inflected utilitarianism were well suited for the designs on Arrakis itself but I really felt that after 10,000 years of Empire, the mechanics and architecture of Atreides and Harkonnen and the Spacing Guild and everything else deserved a little bit more variety than we saw. The film denies us the presence of the Emperor and their family (at a guess because they didn't know if the second half was going to be made) so hopefully they'll dare something a little more _outre_ for the next installment.



Again from the earlier films, particularly Jodorowsky version, the Harkonnen world was going to be very much an anthropomorphic nightmare out of Geiger's imagination.  The sketches he produced for that got at least a homage in Prometheus, where the Alien Base had a very similar form to the Harkonnen palace/temple, which was essentially a huge form of the Baron.  So maybe look to that film for an idea?  

Another aside, was Ridley Scott not also signed to direct the Lynch movie, only resigning after putting-in at least a few months work to be replaced by Lynch?


----------



## Idaho (Nov 1, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> So the Fremen are survalist people who don't depend on the state. Republican freedom lovers. As portrayed in film.
> 
> In film and book they are the one group who the Emperor hasn't been able to rule.


They are hiding from a universe that has previously persecuted, enslaved and tried to ethnically cleanse them.


----------



## pogofish (Nov 1, 2021)

Idaho said:


> They are hiding from a universe that has previously persecuted, enslaved and tried to ethnically cleanse them.



The Arabian Bedouin suffered considerable persecution and forced settlement under the Ottoman Empire, which was looking to solidify land ownership and taxes in all its dominions, so landless nomads had no place whatsoever.  This forced many into Palestine, where the British drove them into poverty (the French in Egypt were little better), before turning to outright coercion into permanent settlements that were so alien to their culture that residents no longer even considered themselves Bedouin.  Then post-1948, the Israelis became the prime oppressor/expeller.

Ibn Saud's support of their culture (which aligned with his wider alliance with Wahhabism) and allowing them their historic independence within the nascent Saudi Arabia was a very important step in his strategy and laid the foundations for the formation of the Ikwahn - the "holy" army that let him take the country.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2021)

Idaho said:


> They are hiding from a universe that has previously persecuted, enslaved and tried to ethnically cleanse them.



I'm aware of this from the book. They also become Pauls army killing millions to take over planets for his empire later on.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 2, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> I'm aware of this from the book. They also become Pauls army killing millions to take over planets for his empire later on.


Billions!


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2021)

Been reading around the novel and film.

This article is harsh but asks question why make a film of this novel now.









						Dune, with its white savior and love of eugenics, is not the sci-fi we need in 2020
					

Dune isn't the film we need right now. It's the story is of a superman white savior created by eugenics who leads space-"Arabs" to commit genocide. Yikes.




					www.paulsturtevant.com
				




I'd say I will have to wait until Villeneuve gets second part out.

Villeneuve has made some good Liberal but dark films in the past around contemporary issues.

This article shows what a problematic novel Dune is.

As I've said previously Frank Herbert was a Republican / Hippy. His novel was success amongst "alternative" society. His politics were all over the place. This doesn't surprise me.

Take the Fremen. On one level sympathetic portrayal of oppressed group. They are also portrayed by Herbert as warrior caste. Their hard life had meant the weak were weeded out. Tribal leaders (men) kept position by fights to the death with those who challenged them. Women were strong but know their place. It can be read as right wing fantasy.

The insidious elitist aspect of the plot that does not feature in film is that the myths the Fremen live by have been implanted in them centuries ago by Bene Gesserit. Which partly explains why Paul's mother survives capture by Fremen. Likewise her son Paul.

One aspect of story that comes across more in Dune Messiah is that religion is way elites can manipulate the masses.

Fremen are being manipulated. Bene Gesserit then Paul.

Its a depressing scenerio.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2021)

A colleague was talking about this film today and i misheard them and thought they were talking about Junior, the Schwarzenegger film where he gets pregnant. It took me way longer than it should’ve to work it out


----------



## Idaho (Nov 3, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> Been reading around the novel and film.
> 
> This article is harsh but asks question why make a film of this novel now.
> 
> ...


I suppose, with a user name like gramsci, you would couch everything into tribal political groupings and see all actions as an extension of those affiliations. 

World views in people are vague and shifting things. They might support X over Y for all kinds of reasons. It's a fun story about magic space people. Reductionist analysis based on some political bestiary is just stupid and pointless.


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 3, 2021)

Idaho said:


> I suppose, with a user name like gramsci, you would couch everything into tribal political groupings and see all actions as an extension of those affiliations.
> 
> World views in people are vague and shifting things. They might support X over Y for all kinds of reasons. It's a fun story about magic space people. Reductionist analysis based on some political bestiary is just stupid and pointless.


This is kind of arguing that nothing means anything, or that culture floats free of politics. No one is telling you to stop enjoying Dune. You can both enjoy Harry Potter books and talk about their particularly terrible version of liberalism.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 3, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> This is kind of arguing that nothing means anything, or that culture floats free of politics. No one is telling you to stop enjoying Dune. You can both enjoy Harry Potter books and talk about their particularly terrible version of liberalism.


I find Marxist analysis useful and entertaining when looking at politics, but utterly drab when used on literature.


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 3, 2021)

I don't think you need Marxian analysis to spot that a lot of the politics of Dune is about powerful people manipulating the wider population or imposing themselves with violence. The question then is who Herbert is sympathetic to among his own creations.


----------



## belboid (Nov 3, 2021)

Saw it.  Liked it.  But then I always did like Lawrence of Arabia, so I would, wouldn’t I?

There’s not really much more to it than LoA, is there?


----------



## Idaho (Nov 3, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> I don't think you need Marxian analysis to spot that a lot of the politics of Dune is about powerful people manipulating the wider population or imposing themselves with violence. The question then is who Herbert is sympathetic to among his own creations.


The point he's making is that megalomaniacs are attracted to positions of power and people are ever willing to cede their power to charismatic leaders with simple answers.



> But oh, the perils of leadership in a species so anxious to be told what to do. How little they knew of what they created by their demands. Leaders made mistakes. And those mistakes, amplified by the numbers who followed without questioning, moved inevitably toward great disasters.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 3, 2021)

belboid said:


> Saw it.  Liked it.  But then I always did like Lawrence of Arabia, so I would, wouldn’t I?
> 
> There’s not really much more to it than LoA, is there?


Sandworms. No sandworms in LoA.


----------



## belboid (Nov 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Sandworms. No sandworms in LoA.


The camel trains.  Their ability to come together in an unstoppable mass to drive through the Turkish ranks and then almost immediately scatter and disappear into the desert was an (explicit, iirr) inspiration.


----------



## Sue (Nov 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Sandworms. No sandworms in LoA.


No trains being attacked in Dune.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 3, 2021)

Idaho said:


> I suppose, with a user name like gramsci, you would couch everything into tribal political groupings and see all actions as an extension of those affiliations.
> 
> World views in people are vague and shifting things. They might support X over Y for all kinds of reasons. It's a fun story about magic space people. Reductionist analysis based on some political bestiary is just stupid and pointless.



It's how Villeneuve sees the Dune the novel. Why he decided to make it into a film.









						Behold Dune: A New Look at Timothée Chalamet, Zendaya, and More
					

Feuding royals. A deadly planet. Before Star Wars or Game of Thrones, there was this legendary story.




					www.vanityfair.com
				




He says its



> portrait of the reality of the oil and the capitalism and the exploitation—the overexploitation—of Earth


----------



## Idaho (Nov 3, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> It's how Villeneuve sees the Dune the novel. Why he decided to make it into a film.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's making completely different points to the ones you made


----------



## stdP (Nov 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Sandworms. No sandworms in LoA.



There are in the original 6-hour version that was butchered by the studio, before David Lean changed his surname and moved to the US to do more experimental work.

You can see the remnants of one of the scenes where, walking across the desert, one of Lawrence's companions is swallowed by "quicksand".


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 3, 2021)

Idaho said:


> That's making completely different points to the ones you made




What you objected to was me making a political comment on the film which you said was:



> It's a fun story about magic space people. Reductionist analysis based on some political bestiary is just stupid and pointless.



I posted up what Villeneuve said as he thinks the novel is political with something to say to the present.

Btw I don't think my comment on the film was particularly "Marxist". Or even that controversial. You may or may not agree with it. But its not reductionist nor is it going against why Villeneuve decided to make a film of this novel.

I enjoyed the film as a spectacle. Its made me think more about the novel. I felt it was accurate visualisation of how the novel felt to me. 

It's possible to enjoy something and think critically of it.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 3, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> What you objected to was me making a political comment on the film which you said was:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes there are political messages that are interesting. What I find tiresome and without much value was characterising Herbert as a hippy republican and drawing a wealth of significance from it.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 3, 2021)

This might be just me, but when it comes to stories based on battles between feudal oppressors, I do have problems giving a fuck who wins.

Just being on the side with the leader who has fewer weeping sores isn’t quite enough.

And before anyone asks, no, I haven’t read the books.

I did really enjoy the film - it was mahoosive.  It’s just that I wasn’t that much on either side.  Especially because Drax was on the other one and I like Drax.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 3, 2021)

Idaho said:


> Yes there are political messages that are interesting. What I find tiresome and without much value was characterising Herbert as a hippy republican and drawing a wealth of significance from it.



Not what you posted. Your moving the goalposts. First you complain about "Marxist" criticism of "fun" story. How you assume I'm making Marxist analysis. How much you dislike Marxist analysis of culture.

Now you've moved the goalposts to argue against looking at biographical history of the writer. And the writers politics. Which you find "tiresome".

Which BTW isn't particularly "Marxist" way of looking at culture.

BTW my background is "hippy". I grew up in that. Good and bad sides to it imo. Frank Herbert is typical example. In real life I would have got on with him. But having grown up in that I see the drawbacks.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Nov 6, 2021)

Just caught this at the Ritzy Brixton, great to see it on a big screen. Villeneuve confesses to his life changing moment seeing Lawrence of Arabia 70mm and this is certainly very much present in the film as is Star Wars/Blade Runner. By the end I felt well and truly "Zimmered" by Hans Zimmer's music which almost never lets up. There are some great bits when the music stops  I don't really get all the knife fighting, is that in the book?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 6, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Just caught this at the Ritzy Brixton, great to see it on a big screen. Villeneuve confesses to his life changing moment seeing Lawrence of Arabia 70mm and this is certainly very much present in the film as is Star Wars/Blade Runner. By the end I felt well and truly "Zimmered" by Hans Zimmer's music which almost never lets up. There are some great bits when the music stops  I don't really get all the knife fighting, is that in the book?


Shield technology means that projectile weapons (especially laser guns*) became obsolete. So knife fighting became the only practical method of combat. 

Fremen however do still use a traditional projectile weapon because shields aren’t advisable on Dune (they attract worms) and so haven’t learnt the same aversion to projectile weapons. Fremen are still very handy at hand to hand combat too obviously.  

* They cause small nuclear explosions when they hit a shield.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 7, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Just caught this at the Ritzy Brixton, great to see it on a big screen. Villeneuve confesses to his life changing moment seeing Lawrence of Arabia 70mm and this is certainly very much present in the film as is Star Wars/Blade Runner. By the end I felt well and truly "Zimmered" by Hans Zimmer's music which almost never lets up. There are some great bits when the music stops  I don't really get all the knife fighting, is that in the book?



In the book the knife fighting scenes demonstrate mind over matter. The more psychological aspects of the novel. It's not purely fighting in the book. Its part and parcel of how these people over centuries have heightened their responses. Use same techniques in interactions with others. It's one of the more interesting things in the novel. Not easy to get it across in film. The early scenes using the voice in film demonstrate it. 

The Mentats are specialised example. But not good at emotional side. This doesn't come across in film. 

So not surprised you ask about it.


----------



## kalidarkone (Nov 8, 2021)

Just back from seeing it at the Everyman. First cinema trip for over 2 years.

I think I'm only ever going to see films at the Everyman in the day,  in the week. Barely anyone there, comfortable sofas. Food and drinks delivered to our sofa. 

I loved it. Loved the music, loved the costumes  loved the cinematography. Loved the scale. Loved the huge space craft. Kynes was a great suprise!



Spoiler



Was disappointed that the guild navigator wasn't in it.


----------



## Winot (Nov 8, 2021)

Saw it last night. Really enjoyed it (have read the book - twice - and am a fan of the Lynch film).

Amazing cinematography and design. Good acting. Well plotted - I liked the pacing and the way the story unspooled.

Only bit I didn’t think worked quite so well was the cutting between the Duke’s death and Paul/Jessica in the desert.


----------



## shifting gears (Nov 8, 2021)

Still not made it to this and trying to work out where’s best to see it in London - gutted to find it’s finished at the imax… any tips for a great screen/sound venue?


----------



## stdP (Nov 8, 2021)

Depends a lot where you live but like Kali above I saw mine at my local Everyman (not tiny but not huge) and wasn't disappointed. The sofa model can be a downside if you're not easily divisible by two though.

Some of the dialogue I found hard to distinguish but this is seemingly a problem with the sound mix itself and not the cinema.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Nov 9, 2021)

shifting gears said:


> Still not made it to this and trying to work out where’s best to see it in London - gutted to find it’s finished at the imax… any tips for a great screen/sound venue?


I saw it at Hackney Picturehouse which has a massive wide screen and excellent sound.

I've never read the book and could muster little interest in the story, but I enjoyed the cinematic experience of it.


----------



## shifting gears (Nov 9, 2021)

Dr. Furface said:


> I saw it at Hackney Picturehouse which has a massive wide screen and excellent sound.
> 
> I've never read the book and could muster little interest in the story, but I enjoyed the cinematic experience of it.



Cheers, Hackney is not very convenient for me though tbh - thinking more west end/central, anyone else got any tips? I usually go to Barbican but it’s not on on their big screen, only the smaller ones


----------



## Crispy (Nov 9, 2021)

shifting gears said:


> Still not made it to this and trying to work out where’s best to see it in London - gutted to find it’s finished at the imax… any tips for a great screen/sound venue?


The big cinemas at leicester square are your best bet. "Superscreen" at cineworld Empire or the Dolby screen at the Odeon


----------



## Sue (Nov 9, 2021)

shifting gears said:


> Cheers, Hackney is not very convenient for me though tbh - thinking more west end/central, anyone else got any tips? I usually go to Barbican but it’s not on on their big screen, only the smaller ones


Curzon Soho. 









						Hackney Picturehouse, pay your staff a Living Wage!
					

Loving films and working in a cinema should not mean living on poverty wages. But that’s how it goes for the staff at Hackney Picturehouse.   One of our colleague Kevin has worked at the Ritzy for 6 years. Like many of his colleagues, he loves helping to bring great film to the community. What...




					campaign.goingtowork.org.uk


----------



## shifting gears (Nov 9, 2021)

Crispy said:


> The big cinemas at leicester square are your best bet. "Superscreen" at cineworld Empire or the Dolby screen at the Odeon



I think the new Marvel is dominating all those screen tbh but will investigate further, I am kicking myself for leaving it so long!


----------



## pogofish (Nov 9, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> It is. It also seems to be the one most commonly available for download for some reason.



The original cinema cut - ie the one that still carries David Lynch's name was on Amazon Prime not that long ago.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2021)

shifting gears said:


> Cheers, Hackney is not very convenient for me though tbh - thinking more west end/central, anyone else got any tips? I usually go to Barbican but it’s not on on their big screen, only the smaller ones


It's still on screen one at the Ritzy in Brixton.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 9, 2021)

How long do you think it will be on the cinema? I go so infrequently.. but will probably go in a couple of weeks if it's still on.


----------



## kalidarkone (Nov 9, 2021)

I would have seen it at an IMAX but found out Bristol no longer has one.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 9, 2021)

Yeah it's an aquarium now.


----------



## Chemical needs (Nov 9, 2021)

kalidarkone said:


> I would have seen it at an IMAX but found out Bristol no longer has one.


Went to Cardiff to see it weekend before last after discovering the same thing!


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 13, 2021)

Finally saw this at the cine last night. Some pros: it was good enough world building that I got pulled into the story and carried along and wasn't as bored as I thought I might be, despite him doing his usual thing of dragging out lots of scenes for too long. Some decent enough acting too. I was entertained, in other words, and that balances out a lot of the cons. Of which there are many:


he barely succeeded in doing clearer storytelling than Lynch, partly because of muttered words that couldn't be clearly understood, partly because things like the Bene Geserit, or what spice were for, were explained so quickly that you could blink and miss it. My partner who didn't know the story couldn't really follow it.
I'm not a lover of that soundtrack I'm afraid. It's all very well to be overwhelming at climactic moments, but by being overwhelming at nearly every other scene it both broke an important convention of cinema for no good reason and became monotonous
it really played up the militarism of the different societies and as a result I lost a lot of sympathy for the characters
I did not expect the greyness of the aesthetics. From Caladan through to the strange decision that the ultra-rich of the far future will live in brutalist concrete palaces, I found it to be a lot less visually stimulating than I expected. I kind of agree with this: The New Dune Is Too Somber for Its Own Good
And rather fatally, I found even the desert shots to be quite cold and not very beautiful. I know everyone says it is beautifully shot, and certainly a lot of money went into the visuals, but the grey filter on his cameras seems to be there even in the desert. It also seems to be a physically cold desert - you never once see heat haze that I can remember.
I thought he might choose to tell the story in a different way to the Lynch film, but the flow of the story is pretty damn close, it's just slower and greyer. Maybe they just took it straight from the book, but I expected a bit more creativity given that the Lynch film was widely considered to not really work for casual viewers.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Nov 13, 2021)

I don’t think I need a spoiler, let me know if I do

Lawrence of Arabia killing some one you don’t want to but  its required + Germans +Turks + honourable Bedouin

Pinching Kurtz from apocalypse down then doubling down on Captain Willard coming out the oily water

Jaws bow waves of worms

Jason moo moo deserves no more film money, stick him in Disney comedie or brum brum part 11 flex muscle cars

The exposition lines by characters mainly felt clunky albeit brief (thankfully) I think a narrator, loud thoughts works better for me

Sykes-Picot in space

Not keen on the space techno versus basically sword fighting. Shoot stuff fellas pew pew

The bowel loosening dark bass music and sweeping, travelling arial shots is right off sicario

Just before the final credits I was thinking fucking hell my legs are going numb the second half is gonna be tough…..then it finished so time flies in it

Chisel jaw tough muscle old bloke needs to break out and do something a bit arthouse/pick some less obvious roles otherwise that’s him for ever

Stand out was Rebecca Ferguson

There is an arrrgh teen wank flash back tease. When they are getting into the still suits in the original I seem to remember some sort of flimsy gown Jessica was wearing. I’m sure the director cuts hard at that scene to jolt middle aged perverts memories 

Enjoyed it should have done less vaping before hand and not sat in front of the two coughing lovebirds


I realise despite reading the book and watching the old film multiple times I didn’t actually know what was going on at the start, maybe I need more exposition 


7/10 needs comfier seats


----------



## Idaho (Nov 17, 2021)

Started watching this. Very pretty and dramatic, but I don't know why they have made such a mess of the dialogue and character interactions.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 17, 2021)

Bonus points for covering the missionaria protectiva.


----------



## Chilli.s (Nov 17, 2021)

Tried to learn up my housemates with Lynch's Dune, but sadly they laughed it off the screen. The talking giant fanny in a fishtank was as far as they would let me go. For revenge, I then insisted on FF to sting in his swimsuit and vaseline. Ha ha they'll not forget that in a hurry.

Did feel that it hasn't aged well.


----------



## ska invita (Nov 17, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> Did feel that it hasn't aged well.



THe opposite, modern culture isnt aging well


----------



## Wilf (Nov 17, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I love his names for spaceships.
> It’s way better than having to read ponderous clunky prose, but agree that it can go too far when it’s self-consciously whacky like the *criminally overrated Terry Pratchett*


I'm going to watch Dune this week so I'll stop reading the thread for now. Just wanted to give this a like.  Was impressed with how Pratchett conducted himself at the end, but as a writer... mediocre.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2021)

Wilf said:


> I'm going to watch Dune this week so I'll stop reading the thread for now. Just wanted to give this a like.  Was impressed with how Pratchett conducted himself at the end, but as a writer... mediocre.


I say this as a pongoidesque librarian too


----------



## killer b (Nov 17, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I say this as a pongoidesque librarian


I bet the pratchett fans are just desperate to talk to you about it too


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2021)

killer b said:


> I bet the pratchett fans are just desperate to talk to you about it too


I shall only say Ook back to them


----------



## Idaho (Nov 17, 2021)

Ok, well that was pretty good, quibbles aside. I thought they missed a beat right at the end with the water for the dead religious sacrament touch. But yes plenty to enjoy. Looks like they've probably shot a fair chunk of the next installment already.


----------



## seventh bullet (Nov 17, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> The talking giant fanny in a fishtank



Had to laugh.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 17, 2021)

Idaho said:


> I thought they missed a beat right at the end with the water for the dead religious sacrament touch.


I read an article on the VFX where they say that the movie was originally going to end a little later (probably at the Sietch, with the water ceremony) but they couldn't get teh financiers to pay for the extra production, hence the truncated ending.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 26, 2021)

Saw it today and I'd have it at very good rather than great.  Overall feel of it, cinematography, plenty of other bits were great, just felt it was a bit thin on some of the key plot moments. For example, if you weren't a book wanker, you'd have been hard pressed to pick up on too much about the bene gesserit, particularly Jessica's position as not in it, but still bound to the order.  Stuff like the nature/importance of the quizzats whatsisface was mentioned, but only in a few sentences that you'd have to have absorbed straight away to make sense of.  I also thought it was a bit thin on emotion, for example Jessica and Paul's response to Leto's death.  Still, very good... 8/10.


----------



## YouSir (Nov 26, 2021)

Terrible, made a tedious beige mess of one of Sci Fi's best settings. 2 hours too long, far too much ambling tedium. And I even enjoyed the 3 hour long fan cut of the original.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 27, 2021)

YouSir said:


> Terrible, made a tedious beige mess of one of Sci Fi's best settings. 2 hours too long, far too much ambling tedium. And I even enjoyed the 3 hour long fan cut of the original.



lol


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## Reno (Nov 27, 2021)

Sue said:


> Nah. He hasn't made six great films. Maybe two or three very good films, but no great ones yet.


I think his early Canadian film Polytechnique is great and Arrival comes close but I agree with you on the rest. I hated Prisoners and Enemy.


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## Sue (Nov 27, 2021)

Reno said:


> I think his early Canadian film Polytechnique is great and Arrival comes close but I agree with you on the rest. I hated Prisoners and Enemy.


Yeah, Polytechnique and Arrival were the ones i was thinking of. Haven't seen Enemy.


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## Reno (Nov 27, 2021)

Sue said:


> Yeah, Polytechnique and Arrival were the ones i was thinking of. Haven't seen Enemy.


It was him trying to do a surreal Cronenberg/Lynch type of film and I found it mannered and incredibly boring.


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## mx wcfc (Nov 30, 2021)

I've been avoiding this thread as I hadn't seen it.  But I have now.  (Matinee at Vue, Leicester Square - where we went on our first date "quite a long time ago".  There were maybe 10 people there)  

Hard to say what I thought, other than not as good as the original, which I loved, and have watched maybe a dozen times.

I've skimmed through some earlier posts, and certainly agree that some scenes were dragged out far too long.  10 mins (it felt that long) for a helicopter crash, ffs.  Similarly, I agree that the grey, brutalist, unlit settings were a bit "meh".  Possibly a lack of budget for props and lighting?

Jessica was well acted, but too looked too young (to me, anyway) to be Paul's mother. The baddies were just baddies - lacking any characterisation or humour.  All the CGI made the battle scene worse, rather than better.  I thought the explanatory stuff a bit too _documentary_, if that's the right word - I liked the original partly because I wasn't always clear what was going on, if that doesn't sound too daft.  

I just thought whole sections were "not as well done".  Not even sure I can be bothered to go and see the second half.  

I detest this modern thing of dragging stories out over two or more instalments.  (LOTR needed it, possible.  The Hobbit would have been better as one film.  Spinning the final Harry Potter out over 2 films was sheer bloody exploitation)

I apologised to mrs max for having made her sit through it, as we left.  She had enjoyed it.  I'm sure I've made her sit through the DVD, but she didn't remember it.


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## Reno (Nov 30, 2021)

mx wcfc said:


> I've been avoiding this thread as I hadn't seen it.  But I have now.  (Matinee at Vue, Leicester Square - where we went on our first date "quite a long time ago".  There were maybe 10 people there)
> 
> Hard to say what I thought, other than not as good as the original, which I loved, and have watched maybe a dozen times.
> 
> ...


There is a lot I like about the Lynch film, but not its storytelling which tried to cram way too much into just over two hours and the second half is a mess. I thought the new Dune was far better paced and anybody who has read the (very long) novel would agree that Dune needs to be done as more than one film or as a tv series.

Francesca Annis and Rebecca Ferguson were and look about the same age in either film, Kyle MacLachlan and Timothee Chalamet were in their mid-20s but the latter at least looks like he still could be a teenager.

The new film used many more practical effects and far less CGI than most modern blockbusters. I've rarely seen CGI seen employed so well, so I'm not sure what you thought looked so bad. Some of the optical effects in the Lynch movie were pretty bad, even for the time, with thick matte lines in blue screen shots. The post production for the 1984 film was rushed as the producers had lost faith in the movie and it shows.

This is not the type of film which can't afford props, the spare look is Villeneuve's style and I think the modernist designs are very elegant, it had to distinguish itself from Lynch's futuristic baroque.











						Dune: Timothée Chalamet Only Shot 2 Scenes On Green Screen
					

Dune used very little green screen while filming.




					screenrant.com


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## mx wcfc (Nov 30, 2021)

Reno said:


> There is a lot I like about the Lynch film, but not its storytelling which tried to cram way too much into just over two hours and the second half is a mess. I thought the new Dune was far better paced and anybody who has read the (very long) novel would agree that Dune needs to be done as more than one film or as a tv series.
> 
> Francesca Annis and Rebecca Ferguson were and look about the same age in either film, Kyle MacLachlan and Timothee Chalamet were in their mid-20s but the latter at least looks like he still could be a teenager.
> 
> ...



TBH, I haven't read the books.  I agree there is less CGI than a lot of modern films, which do go way over the top.  

I guess I just liked the "futuristic baroque" visuals of the original.


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## ska invita (Nov 30, 2021)

supposedly this fan edit of Lynchs Dune is great
ive not yet seen
Combines footage from theatrical release + 3 hour TV cut



nonstop gushing in the comments

the youtube version there is 480, theres a higher quality torrent search Dune "spicediver"



> WHAT THE FANS ARE SAYING "Dune: The Alternative Edition Redux is the version of David Lynch's Dune you've been waiting for - a complete top-to-bottom re-editing of the material, drawing from all extant sources. It's easily the most ambitious (and successful) fanedit I've seen. This is thoughtful, respectful editing of the sort professionals do." - Sam Hawkin
> 
> ["In Dune Redux, Spicediver's talents as a faneditor finally catch up to his vision, imagination and passion. This is a unique version of the 1984 film, and one which will charm devout Dune audiences." - Digital Fanedits
> 
> ...






> ABOUT THIS FANEDIT A film that?s been admired, hated and puzzled-over in fairly equal amounts, writer/director David Lynch?s ambitious 1984 adaptation of Frank Herbert?s science fiction novel gets an extensive fanediting treatment in Dune The Alternative Edition Redux. T
> 
> his is my third and final cut of an edit I first released in 2008 and again in 2009. As previously, it draws on the heavily cut Theatrical Version, the controversial Extended ?TV? Version and a selection of Deleted Scenes and soundtrack cues.
> 
> ...


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 1, 2021)

Reno said:


> There is a lot I like about the Lynch film, but not its storytelling which tried to cram way too much into just over two hours and the second half is a mess. I thought the new Dune was far better paced and anybody who has read the (very long) novel would agree that Dune needs to be done as more than one film or as a tv series.
> 
> Francesca Annis and Rebecca Ferguson were and look about the same age in either film, Kyle MacLachlan and Timothee Chalamet were in their mid-20s but the latter at least looks like he still could be a teenager.
> 
> ...



Wot ee sed 👆


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## Wilf (Dec 1, 2021)

Slightly surprised the 2nd part isn't out till Oct 2023 (they haven't started shooting it yet apparently).  Would have thought they'd have filmed both parts while they had the locations and actors in place and 2 years does risk losing a bit of interest in the film.  Lord of the Rings was - I've just looked - i release per year.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 1, 2021)

Wilf said:


> Slightly surprised the 2nd part isn't out till Oct 2023 (they haven't started shooting it yet apparently).  Would have thought they'd have filmed both parts while they had the locations and actors in place and 2 years does risk losing a bit of interest in the film.  Lord of the Rings was - I've just looked - i release per year.



Maybe, but there's often lengthy breaks between sequels. The original Star Wars films had 3 years between each episode. And there's a new Matrix coming out some 18 years after the last...


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## Crispy (Dec 1, 2021)

Wilf said:


> Slightly surprised the 2nd part isn't out till Oct 2023 (they haven't started shooting it yet apparently).  Would have thought they'd have filmed both parts while they had the locations and actors in place and 2 years does risk losing a bit of interest in the film.  Lord of the Rings was - I've just looked - i release per year.


After Bladerunner 2049 bombed, the studio didn't have enough faith in Villeneuve. So they only funded one movie, with the second contingent on its performance.


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## xenon (Dec 1, 2021)

I forgot to post on here when I saw it the other week.


Admittidly I wanted it to end about 20 minutes before it did but that's cos I really needed a piss after taking drink in...

But in short, I loved it. It had an epic feel, less hammy than the Lynch version, which still has it's moments but a grand staging, grown up scifi and great sound design too


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## Wilf (Dec 1, 2021)

Crispy said:


> After Bladerunner 2049 bombed, the studio didn't have enough faith in Villeneuve. So they only funded one movie, with the second contingent on its performance.


Suppose Paul will look a wee bit older at least.


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## Crispy (Dec 1, 2021)

Wilf said:


> Suppose Paul will look a wee bit older at least.


Chalamet is 26; I don't think he's going to look substantially different


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## Gromit (Dec 1, 2021)

Wilf said:


> Suppose Paul will look a wee bit older at least.


Well he's meant to be water filled fleshy at the start and becomes dry and desiccated like the desert folk by the end of it. That will age a person.


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## Cerv (Dec 1, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Chalamet is 26; I don't think he's going to look substantially different


I suspect Chalamet will still look about 17 when he's 40



Crispy said:


> After Bladerunner 2049 bombed, the studio didn't have enough faith in Villeneuve. So they only funded one movie, with the second contingent on its performance.


Villeneuve's also said he doesn't want to film two huge movies at the same time. it'd be too much and likely to lead to burn out / negatively affect the quality of each


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## Wilf (Dec 1, 2021)

Gromit said:


> Well he's meant to be water filled fleshy at the start and becomes dry and desiccated like the desert folk by the end of it. That will age a person.


Poor sod's going to be blind in a couple of films.


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## Chilli.s (Dec 2, 2021)

I thoroughly enjoyed this new dune, glad to see it at home with the pause button. 8/10, a high mark, I think even a hater of sci-fi would be entertained. The mum looked too young was my only gripe.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2021)

Wilf said:


> Poor sod's going to be blind in a couple of films.


Mad Desert Prophet paul is his best version.


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 2, 2021)

DotCommunist said:


> Mad Desert Prophet paul is his best version.


Man's gotta have role models, amirite Dottie?


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## treefrog (Dec 7, 2021)

I loved it. I didn't expect them to go so weird, I'm glad they did.


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## ska invita (Dec 7, 2021)

ska invita said:


> supposedly this fan edit of Lynchs Dune is great
> ive not yet seen
> Combines footage from theatrical release + 3 hour TV cut
> 
> ...



BTW I tried to watch this - I didnt like it - I actually prefer the more confusing regular edit  That confusion is part of the magic and mystery of the original film. This felt like dumbing down


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## DotCommunist (Dec 7, 2021)

I hope they get a better Padishah emperor for p2 of villnueve's Dune, the bloke from Lynch's version is miscast imo.


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## donkyboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Great movie. Loved watching at home. Cannot wait for part 2.


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## platinumsage (Dec 12, 2021)

It's great to watch at home. I watched Dunkirk in the cinema and Hans Zimmer's soundtrack was torture as I forgot my earplugs.


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## Tankus (Dec 26, 2021)

Epic, if ever there was a film that ended too ealy


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## Jennaonthebeach (Dec 26, 2021)

Wilf said:


> Slightly surprised the 2nd part isn't out till Oct 2023 (they haven't started shooting it yet apparently).  Would have thought they'd have filmed both parts while they had the locations and actors in place and 2 years does risk losing a bit of interest in the film.  Lord of the Rings was - I've just looked - i release per year.


oh i remember reading about this a while back. I think it was the director who said that the investors didn't have enough confidence in Dune to sanction making the sequel before seeing that the first film is successful - and that's the key difference with LOTR which was deemed to be far more likely of succeeding financially.


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## Jeff Robinson (Jan 21, 2022)

Watched it at home a few weeks ago and honestly hated every fucking second of it. Actually, I only made it about 35 minutes in or so and turned it off. I felt nothing but numbness and boredom watching this dreary, sterile, stilted, clinical painstakingly serious, up-its-own-arse film.


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## Winot (Jan 21, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Watched it at home a few weeks ago and honestly hated every fucking second of. Actually, I only made it about 35 minutes in or so and turned it off. I felt nothing but numbness and boredom watching this dreary, sterile, stilted, clinical painstakingly serious, up-its-own-arse film.


So did you like it?


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## Jeff Robinson (Jan 21, 2022)

Winot said:


> So did you like it?



More than I thought I would tbh


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## ska invita (Jan 21, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Watched it at home a few weeks ago and honestly hated every fucking second of it. Actually, I only made it about 35 minutes in or so and turned it off. I felt nothing but numbness and boredom watching this dreary, sterile, stilted, clinical painstakingly serious, up-its-own-arse film.


from what ive seen it does look quite drab and minimalist....i never like bladerunner either (the old one) and so couldnt face the new one....i haven't felt inspired or in the mood yet to give it a try...i think you need to be a certain state of mind to enjoy something like this. will watch it one day im sure...no rush if the story stops half way anyway


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## Crispy (Jan 21, 2022)

Wait for part 2, then go see it back to back with part 1 on a DOLBY MEGAMAX BUTTSHAKER screen.
Smoke a fatty boombatty before each part for your state of mind.


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## Brainaddict (Jan 21, 2022)

Crispy said:


> Wait for part 2, then go see it back to back with part 1 on a DOLBY MEGAMAX BUTTSHAKER screen.
> Smoke a fatty boombatty before each part for your state of mind.


I really didn't like the constant noise. Particularly as it was so uncorrelated with the degree of drama on the screen. Just noise noise noise for the sake of it.


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## Jeff Robinson (Jan 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> from what ive seen it does look quite drab and minimalist....i never like bladerunner either (the old one) and so couldnt face the new one....i haven't felt inspired or in the mood yet to give it a try...i think you need to be a certain state of mind to enjoy something like this. will watch it one day im sure...no rush if the story stops half way anyway



Loads of people love it and more power to them I guess. I've heard endless gushing references to 'a masterclass in world building'. Personally the 'world' looked shit to me, one designed by a sci-fi nerd who's read Lawrence of Arabia. The 'baddies' look like something out of a rightwing eugenicist handbook and the dialogue sounds like it's been written by somebody whose never had a conversation. Just didn't work on any level for me, but tbf I haven't read the book and this is not a genre I'm really into.


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 22, 2022)




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## Doctor Carrot (Jan 23, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Watched it at home a few weeks ago and honestly hated every fucking second of it. Actually, I only made it about 35 minutes in or so and turned it off. I felt nothing but numbness and boredom watching this dreary, sterile, stilted, clinical painstakingly serious, up-its-own-arse film.


Gonna back you up on this. I saw it at the cinema too. I've not read Dune but I was so looking forward to this because I like Villnueve's films, particularly blade runner 2049. I really wanted to love it but I just found myself waiting for something interesting to happen and it never did.

I was left cold and bored by the whole experience. I was actually really surprised by how boring it was. Even the action scenes were meh and I found myself not giving a single fuck about any of the characters. A lot of people were in and out of their seats in the cinema I went to as well which I think says a lot.

I just don't think long, drawn out scifi/fantasy epics are for me. I thought they were but I found Lord of the rings a snooze fest and I don't think I like Star Wars as much as i think I do!


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## krtek a houby (Jan 23, 2022)

Doctor Carrot said:


> I don't think I like Star Wars as much as i think I do!



Eh?


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## Doctor Carrot (Jan 23, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Eh?


I'm saying that I don't think I like big drawn out scifi epics as much as I thought I did. I think Star Wars falls in that category.


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## krtek a houby (Jan 23, 2022)

Doctor Carrot said:


> I'm saying that I don't think I like big drawn out scifi epics as much as I thought I did. I think Star Wars falls in that category.



Ok. Personally, have never met an epic sci-fi that didn't like.


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## 8ball (Jan 23, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


>




With some of those bits of the film mixed in it really does highlight the leaden glumness of it.


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## Brainaddict (Jan 24, 2022)

I watched Sicario the other night and realised that Villeneuve also has terrible politics. He probably liked the look of all those fashy banners he put in Dune.


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## Reno (Jan 24, 2022)

Brainaddict said:


> I watched Sicario the other night and realised that Villeneuve also has terrible politics. He probably liked the look of all those fashy banners he put in Dune.


Sicario wasn't written by him, his early Hollywood films were basically commercial director-for-hire jobs. Considering his early Canadian films like Polytechique, which he co-wrote, I doubt that politically he is on the right.


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## Brainaddict (Jan 24, 2022)

Reno said:


> Sicario wasn't written by him, his early Hollywood films were basically commercial director-for-hire jobs. Considering his early Canadian films like Polytechique, which he co-wrote, I doubt that politically he is on the right.


You can surely choose whether you want to be involved in a film sympathetic to CIA murders squads or not. It's a very ugly film.


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## Reno (Jan 24, 2022)

Brainaddict said:


> You can surely choose whether you want to be involved in a film sympathetic to CIA murders squads or not. It's a very ugly film.


I think Prisoners, a vigilante thriller he directed before, is at least as bad. But at the time he wasn't yet established in Hollywood and he was making the leap from Canadian independent films to big budget Hollywood films. Having read interviews with him and seen his early films, I doubt he is a rabid right winger, certainly not where he would be attracted to making Dune due to fascist iconography as you suggested. In interviews he has described himself as centre left and when pushed on US politics, he points out that he is Canadian.


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 24, 2022)

Reno said:


> ...pushed on US politics, he points out that he is Canadian.


Last refuge of a scoundrel!


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## Chz (Feb 6, 2022)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Gonna back you up on this. I saw it at the cinema too. I've not read Dune but I was so looking forward to this because I like Villnueve's films, particularly blade runner 2049. I really wanted to love it but I just found myself waiting for something interesting to happen and it never did.
> 
> I was left cold and bored by the whole experience. I was actually really surprised by how boring it was. Even the action scenes were meh and I found myself not giving a single fuck about any of the characters. A lot of people were in and out of their seats in the cinema I went to as well which I think says a lot.
> 
> I just don't think long, drawn out scifi/fantasy epics are for me. I thought they were but I found Lord of the rings a snooze fest and I don't think I like Star Wars as much as i think I do!


In between bouts of "turn on some lights, goddamnit" it had some slow bits. I actually thought Lynch did a much better job with the slow shields, even if 1984's effects weren't quite up to it. That's a big part of why the action just didn't work for me. 

I mean, I liked it. But I was hoping to love it and it fell well short of there. I'm sure part of it was watching on a 48" screen and not in a cinema, because there were bits clearly meant to impress that... didn't. Although with that being said, I watched Die Another Day on the same screen and thought the action was a hoot.


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## ska invita (Mar 14, 2022)

watched it
#DesertPower

i liked the bagpipes

dont remember it being mentioned though no doubt it has been but theres a prequel tv series coming (around) next year








						Dune: The Sisterhood (TV Series) - IMDb
					

Dune: The Sisterhood: With Emily Watson, Shirley Henderson, Travis Fimmel, Indira Varma. TV series set in the 'Dune' universe which centers on the lives of the Bene Gesserit.




					www.imdb.com


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## Reno (Mar 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> watched it
> #DesertPower
> 
> i liked the bagpipes
> ...


It has been mentioned but there also hasn't been an update on the tv series since last June. I could imagine now that the 2nd film is about to go into production and there being talk of a 3rd film, that are been putting all their energy into that.









						Dune Director Discusses Possible Third Film
					

Dune: Part Two beings filming soon, and director Denis Villeneuve is already considering a third film, which would be based on the novel Dune Messiah.




					www.cbr.com


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## ska invita (Mar 14, 2022)

bagpipes


re bagpipes
"The score was recorded by Hans Zimmer during COVID lock down. Zimmer's team turned his sitting room into a studio which was next to his daughter's room. He recalls, "She will tell everybody that she suffers from bagpipe PTSD, because it's 5:30 in the morning and I'm still blasting away and the whole house is shaking."

not enough bagpipes in it  tbh


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## DotCommunist (Mar 14, 2022)

the throat singing bit sent me on a youtube throat singing voyage of discovery, I hope there is more of it. Altai throat singing is immense


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## Johnny Vodka (Apr 18, 2022)

Bit meh really.  Been a while since I watched the Lynch version, but I reckon it had more entertainment value.


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## pbsmooth (Apr 18, 2022)

I normally enjoy a Hans Zimmer epic soundtrack but found this one a bit too cheesy, the middle eastern style woman hollering, the throat singing, the bagpipes were ridiculous, all seemed a bit predictable. A bit like the film. I realise the original preceded a lot of what we have since become familiar with in other sci-fi films but it just seemed very well trodden stories and set pieces. Enjoyed the last hour a bit more but then of course it ended. And as someone else said, felt very little attachment to any of the characters. Felt like maybe aimed at teenage boys more than I realised.


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## pbsmooth (Apr 18, 2022)

For me not a patch on Bladerunner 2049


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## cybershot (Apr 28, 2022)

This might explain some of the inspiration behind Zimmers booming soundtrack!


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## 8ball (Apr 28, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Bit meh really.  Been a while since I watched the Lynch version, but I reckon it had more entertainment value.



Maybe watching both more than once is handy for comparing usefully.

I’ve only seen the new version once.


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## Johnny Vodka (Apr 29, 2022)

8ball said:


> Maybe watching both more than once is handy for comparing usefully.
> 
> I’ve only seen the new version once.



If I had the time, maybe, as sometimes a film catches you in the wrong mood.  I was enjoying it to begin with...

Another thing that was shit about it was the shield effects.  Made for rubbish fighting.


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## Crispy (May 12, 2022)

Christopher Walken to play the emperor, apparently...


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## Shippou-Sensei (May 12, 2022)

Crispy said:


> Christopher Walken to play the emperor, apparently...


Well he knows his dune lore


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## DotCommunist (May 13, 2022)




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## A380 (Aug 29, 2022)




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