# Immigrants in Cornwall need the Police.



## boskysquelch (Dec 5, 2007)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/pip/bbe2h/

it's on the Beeb so it must be the _truth_.


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## chymaera (Dec 5, 2007)

It is just a pity the indigenous workers don't get the same level of help and support:-

http://www.cornwallstrategicpartnership.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=10653


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## boskysquelch (Dec 5, 2007)

these are some of the "indigeneous workers" I got arrested over because I attacked one of them with my skateboard. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/6435267.stm

http://www.24dash.com/billpayments/17699.htm

The Police were very nice to me, as were the others in the street trying to get by _the hard way_..


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## chymaera (Dec 5, 2007)

boskysquelch said:
			
		

> these are some of the "indigeneous workers" I got arrested over because I attacked one of them with my skateboard.




Hadn't you got anything more useful to hand?


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## boskysquelch (Dec 5, 2007)

I put the hammer back under the bed where the gf, I mentioned, had left it the last time she visited.


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## CNT36 (Dec 5, 2007)

chymaera said:
			
		

> It is just a pity the indigenous workers don't get the same level of help and support:-
> 
> http://www.cornwallstrategicpartnership.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=10653



Damn straight I know plenty of Cornish who have difficulty speaking the language. Damn immigrants coming over here taking our interpreters and welcome packs. Welcome to Hayle three miles of golden sand now go shovel some shit.


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## boskysquelch (Dec 5, 2007)

lolz


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## boskysquelch (Dec 10, 2007)

it's on the radio now.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 10, 2007)

chymaera said:
			
		

> It is just a pity the indigenous workers don't get the same level of help and support:-
> 
> http://www.cornwallstrategicpartnership.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=10653


But they do, don't they? Most of the rest of that website is about ways to improve the skills of the indigenous workers and overcoming the high levels of disadvantage in the county - indeed, if you looked around, you'll find that a prime reason for migrant workers being in Cornwall is the level of unfilled vacancies, with JC+ stating that they take about 25-35,000 vacancies per annum, which has lead to:

_'recruitment difficulties and skills shortages across a range of sectors including tourism, catering and hospitality, childcare and social care, construction, retail and food production. These shortages cut across all levels from entry to management positions. Without appropriate investment and focus on the potential labour force, these shortages will intensify and will affect our ability to fill the broader range of jobs that are being created from major regeneration and investment programmes such as Objective One.'_

But why bother with the facts if you can get a sly dig in at those nasty migrants eh? Born and raised in Cornwall were you chymaera?


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## boskysquelch (Dec 10, 2007)

one of the things that changed down here as the popularity of immigrant workers finding work in Cornwall was the matching of a piece rate against the prescribed National Minimum Wage.

With application & experience a "worker" can increase their work flow dramatically over a period of time, if not a "career" and consequently afford to anticipate earnings over a season whereas with a minimum wage/hours set..but volume output pressure still the same means that the work doesn't pay.


What I observed in tree planting/daffs was that employers were quick to no longer "insist" on a piece rate but offer work only in terms of a minimum wage...for myself that literally HALVED my expected income over a season.


I think the programme spoke volumes when one of the interviewees said something to the effect that immigrant workers dream about spending their earnings in Poland not the UK...as obviously the monies go little distance Here and "no one" earning the minimum wage can get very far in Britain.

The little boy interviewed is one of my neighbours in town.


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## chymaera (Dec 10, 2007)

Paulie Tandoori said:
			
		

> But why bother with the facts if you can get a sly dig in at those nasty migrants eh? Born and raised in Cornwall were you chymaera?



To make sure foreign workers get their rights in Cornwall there is a large multi-agency team going around inspecting places where they are employed and are housed. It consist of police, health and safety, Local Authority Housing Inpectors, and several other agencies.
The foreign workers are getting more protection than the local indigenous ones do.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 10, 2007)

Oh gosh, how awful, making sure people get their rights, whatever will they think of next?


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## Fruitloop (Dec 10, 2007)

chymaera said:
			
		

> To make sure foreign workers get their rights in Cornwall there is a large multi-agency team going around inspecting places where they are employed and are housed. It consist of police, health and safety, Local Authority Housing Inpectors, and several other agencies.
> The foreign workers are getting more protection than the local indigenous ones do.



is it not obvious that protecting the pay and conditions of one group of workers has positive effects on the others? As long as the employers can get away with sub-standard conditions for the foreign workers there will be more incentive to employ them in place of indigenous ones.


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## chymaera (Dec 10, 2007)

Paulie Tandoori said:
			
		

> Oh gosh, how awful, making sure people get their rights, whatever will they think of next?



The problem is there is the huge team of people making sure that foreign workers are getting their rights and no-one making sure the local workers do.


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## zenie (Dec 10, 2007)

chymaera said:
			
		

> The problem is there is the huge team of people making sure that foreign workers are getting their rights and no-one making sure the local workers do.


 
Presumabley becuase foreign workers are at a greater risk of being exploited and not knowing about their rights? non?


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## chymaera (Dec 10, 2007)

zenie said:
			
		

> Presumabley becuase foreign workers are at a greater risk of being exploited and not knowing about their rights? non?



Cornwall is renowned for having crap employers and shit pay.


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## zenie (Dec 10, 2007)

chymaera said:
			
		

> Cornwall is renowned for having crap employers and shit pay.


 
Crapo employers as in they're breaking the law or just rubbish benefits and pay?


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## chymaera (Dec 10, 2007)

zenie said:
			
		

> Crapo employers as in they're breaking the law or just rubbish benefits and pay?



There are some really rogue employers in Cornwall who do more or less as they like and have been doing so for a very long time.


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## boskysquelch (Dec 10, 2007)

Did anyone listen to the programme then?


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 10, 2007)

chymaera said:
			
		

> The problem is there is the huge team of people making sure that foreign workers are getting their rights and no-one making sure the local workers do.


No, the problem is people making ill-informed comments that distort and misrepresent the actual situation.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 10, 2007)

Fruitloop said:
			
		

> is it not obvious that protecting the pay and conditions of one group of workers has positive effects on the others? As long as the employers can get away with sub-standard conditions for the foreign workers there will be more incentive to employ them in place of indigenous ones.


Clearly far too obvious for some people eh?


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## boskysquelch (Dec 10, 2007)

Fruitloop said:
			
		

> there will be more incentive to employ them in place of indigenous ones.



the copper did say some stuff similar to that...but apparently it's not that easy because they are like "ghosts"...and him being the only copper in the whole county doing it...and the only one in the country because the other forces are waiting to see how his work works. 

I've never had a copper turn up at my place of work to advise me that I should probably know that I have to have a driving licence, road tax & insurance to drive a car. But I have been stopped a lot of times asking what I am doing driving in the small hours down roads where I live and work<<< as they know where I live before they stop me...because they then tell me how they know... and follow me home.. 

I didn't hear of any rights being awarded in the programme.. I did hear a load of pro_policing_anything_we_can propaganda tho.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 10, 2007)

boskysquelch said:
			
		

> the copper did say some stuff similar to that...but apparently it's not that easy because they are like "ghosts"...and him being the only copper in the whole county doing it...and the only one in the country because the other forces are waiting to see how his work works.


So the claim by chymaera that there is a "huge" team of people actually consists of one copper amongst others. Clearly a use of the word "huge" that is substantively different from that which most people assume it to mean.

Will try and have a listen when i get home


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## chymaera (Dec 10, 2007)

Paulie Tandoori said:
			
		

> So the claim by chymaera that there is a "huge" team of people actually consists of one copper amongst others.




It is a huge team when they raid farms and workers accomodation. 
I can't remember any factory premises having such a raid to see if local workers are being treated correctly.


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## chymaera (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.gla.gov.uk/embedded_object.asp?id=1013079
West Cornwall Migrant Worker Action Group
The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) regarding the health and safety of workerswithin their working environment.
The Gangmaster Licensing Authority (GLA) concerning the Migrant Worker’s
employment rights; where there is gangmaster involvement.
Cornwall County Fire Brigade to ensure fire safety issues in the Migrant Worker’sworking environment and their housing.
Devon and Cornwall Police to look at any issues in relation to the exploitation of workers,as well as playing a key role in the operational aspects of the Migrant Worker Action
Week. Other organisations such as the Probation Service,


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 10, 2007)

Kerrier Council has been recognised as an example of good practice in a recent publication by the Audit Commission, “Crossing Borders”, which considers the way in which Councils are responding to the influx of Migrant Workers in recent years.


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## chymaera (Dec 10, 2007)

Paulie Tandoori said:
			
		

> Kerrier Council has been recognised as an example of good practice in a recent publication by the Audit Commission, “Crossing Borders”, which considers the way in which Councils are responding to the influx of Migrant Workers in recent years.




It is just a shame they don't care as much about the local people.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 10, 2007)

chymaera said:
			
		

> It is just a shame they don't care as much about the local people.


What bit of this don't you understand?






			
				Fruitloop said:
			
		

> is it not obvious that protecting the pay and conditions of one group of workers has positive effects on the others? As long as the employers can get away with sub-standard conditions for the foreign workers there will be more incentive to employ them in place of indigenous ones.


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## boskysquelch (Dec 10, 2007)

Paulie Tandoori said:
			
		

> What bit of this don't you understand?



I don't understand the bit where there is any evidence that the protection of the rights of foreign workers demonstrably provides the improvement of the rights of the indigenous workers.

As it happens I believe that the original migrants workers have been replaced by immigrant migrant workers to the detriment of indigenous workers in Cornwall.

And there lies another facet to the debate.

Coincidently...if you considered this programme in contrast to the other programme broadcast a short while ago on R4 that demonstrated the hardship found by employers & gangmasters/agencies getting enough workers from Europe to cover the contracts...with the reasoning that UK workers don't want or won't do the work etc etc etc it does make the whole thing easy to pick holes in from whaddeva angle you choose to.


From another perspective...the trail of ads for this programme of the last week or two was actually quite sinister in tone. The given tone of the programme was actually...

_We are trying our hardest, it's hard. But we are trying...but it's hard...and we all have our jobs to do...and it's hard...and they all lived happily ever after or will they? It's hard to tell._

Typical frkkn R4 fer pseudo intellectual thickies....jus the sort of stuff I listen to


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 10, 2007)

Because employers employ people. Employers tend to want to keep their costs to a minimum. Therefore, if they can employ migrant workers at pay rates less than NMW, with less rigorous H&S standards, in unhealthy cheap accommodation, then they will. Therefore, removing opportunities for "local" workers to gain work, as they will always be undercut by the workers who are being exploited.

This sentence "As it happens I believe that the original migrants workers have been replaced by immigrant migrant workers to the detriment of indigenous workers in Cornwall." makes very little sense to me - i have worked on farms in fields in Cornwall, so i ask who are these "original" migrant workers that you speak of? Presumably, that would be some of the Iberian people who have previously come over or are you thinking of travellers? It isn't about who is doing the work, it's about who's being exploited whilst doing the work that is the issue.


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## chymaera (Dec 10, 2007)

Paulie Tandoori said:
			
		

> i have worked on farms in fields in Cornwall, so i ask who are these "original" migrant workers that you speak of?



Where have I mentioned original migrant workers? A fair number of local people who have been doing seasonal farm work for decades, as part of a work pattern that involves other seasonal work that used to keep them in employment for most of the year, are now being told:- "fuck off we are only employing foreigners."
Travellers of various types who also used to do seasonal farm work a up until a few years ago were also told:-"fuck off we are only employing foreigners."


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## boskysquelch (Dec 10, 2007)

chymaera said:
			
		

> Where have I mentioned original migrant workers?



actually it was me...and you jus adequately argued what would have been my response....




			
				Paulie said:
			
		

> It isn't about who is doing the work, it's about who's being exploited whilst doing the work that is the issue.




I _know_ what you are saying Paulie but this programme was jus strawberry flavoured smoke screening PR dribble fer Dibble. 

Have a listen and tell me if you see any Rights being given to anyone.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 10, 2007)

chymaera said:
			
		

> Where have I mentioned original migrant workers? A fair number of local people who have been doing seasonal farm work for decades, as part of a work pattern that involves other seasonal work that used to keep them in employment for most of the year, are now being told:- "fuck off we are only employing foreigners."
> Travellers of various types who also used to do seasonal farm work a up until a few years ago were also told:-"fuck off we are only employing foreigners."


And that's because the farmers can easily exploit migrant workers with cheaper pay, longer hours, crap accomodation etc etc...which is why it makes sense to try to enforce universal rights for all those who work in Cornwall, even those migrants whom get your back up so badly. 

If you listen to that propgramme, a big part of the problem is gangmasters from all around the country bringing people in - yet the government appears very reluctant to enforce rights for temporary and/or agency workers. Not to actively police the activities of gangmasters who are a large part of the problem.


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## chymaera (Dec 10, 2007)

Paulie Tandoori said:
			
		

> If you listen to that propgramme,




I don't need to listen to the program, friends of mine were  directly effected by the criminal Gangmaster element long before the government or the police took it seriously.


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