# Al Murray denounced as posh by Richard Herring



## solidyeoman (Mar 13, 2012)

'Hound him mercilessly'says Herring on Ian Bone's blog. This could get interesting.
www.ianbone.wordpress.com


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## London_Calling (Mar 13, 2012)

If that's not a parody it should be.


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## jakethesnake (Mar 13, 2012)

Fucking love Class War... Who has done more for our class, Wetherspoons or the SWP?


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## Stigmata (Mar 13, 2012)

Of course it's a pisstake. Murray's the comedian's comedian- they all love him. Him and Johnny Vegas.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 13, 2012)

Stigmata said:


> Of course it's a pisstake. Murray's the comedian's comedian- they all love him. Him and Johnny Vegas.


Why?


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## Stigmata (Mar 13, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Why?


 
I don't know. Maybe he's a good bloke to tour with or something


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## danny la rouge (Mar 13, 2012)

Stigmata said:


> I don't know. Maybe he's a good bloke to tour with or something


Or maybe they're in awe of the way he can rake it in while actually having no talent.


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## London_Calling (Mar 13, 2012)

Which explains why his tours are sell outs.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 13, 2012)

Read it again.


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## colacubes (Mar 13, 2012)

He's also one of Herring's mates and Herring was a writer on his TV programme so probably this is rather out of context.


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## Jon-of-arc (Mar 13, 2012)

Loving the list of oxbridge comedians wc people arent allowed to laugh at... Bone really is a tit.


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## Jon-of-arc (Mar 13, 2012)

Dp


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## Captain Hurrah (Mar 13, 2012)

No posh people in Class War?


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## London_Calling (Mar 13, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Read it again.


Thanks, but no thanks.


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## sim667 (Mar 13, 2012)

I've always denounced him as a bit of a prick tbh..... He's about the comic quality of harry hill, talentless and iritating


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## danny la rouge (Mar 13, 2012)

I like Harry Hill.  He makes me laugh.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 13, 2012)

can't stand the slaphead although herring makes me lol. Pot/kettle tho


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## Santino (Mar 13, 2012)

Murray used to be Hill's sidekick.


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## butchersapron (Mar 13, 2012)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Loving the list of oxbridge comedians wc people arent allowed to laugh at... Bone really is a tit.


Do you really not get the wider point? The one about elite dominance of what is supposed to be our popular culture and how that normalises certain traits and ideas? If we argue that elite dominance of political, legal, economic institutions (state and otherwise) says something pretty damning about how society is organised, and that this setup actively damages society then why the hell should be not be able to point to the same thing happening in the cultural sphere. It's not about whether they're funny or not ffs.

A ten minute wikipedia trawl just then shows that from monthy python-->goodies-->not the nine of clock news-->the young ones-->the comic strip-->blackadder-->french and saunders-->fry and laurie and so on (and this extends further) - everyone private school apart from chris ryan and peter richardson. Doesn't that say something more than whether they're funny or not? (and most of them are).


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## Santino (Mar 13, 2012)

He is a posh bloke whose main character is a parody of a thick working class man, though.

Ha, remember that new character he created who was a gay Nazi? He wore a pink uniform! That's clever, because Murrary has observed that gay people like pink things, and then he's used that knowledge to round out the character. You'd probably never noticed that gay people like pink, but Murray makes you realise things like that.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 13, 2012)

Santino said:


> He is a posh bloke whose main character is a parody of a thick working class man, though.
> 
> Ha, remember that new character he created who was a gay Nazi? He wore a pink uniform! That's clever, because Murrary has observed that gay people like pink things, and then he's used that knowledge to round out the character. You'd probably never noticed that gay people like pink, but Murray makes you realise things like that.


 

he makes me think of Alf Garnet for some reason


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## danny la rouge (Mar 13, 2012)

Santino said:


> Murray used to be Hill's sidekick.


Did he?  Not on TV Burp.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 13, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Did he? Not on TV Burp.


 
Nope, on his 1st TV series, "The Harry Hill Show". Al Murray was "Alan Hill", and Bert Kwouk was Bert Kwouk.

And there was a badger parade at the end of each show.


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## Termite Man (Mar 13, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nope, on his 1st TV series, "The Harry Hill Show". Al Murray was "Alan Hill", and Bert Kwouk was Bert Kwouk.
> 
> And there was a badger parade at the end of each show.


 

wasn't the badger parade always cancelled due to an unforeseen but comedic reason?


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## Belushi (Mar 13, 2012)

I saw Murray do his pub landlord act in the mid nineties and found it funny, but over 15 years later he's still using the same material, talk about flogging a dead horse.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 13, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> wasn't the badger parade always cancelled due to an unforeseen but comedic reason?


 
Sometimes, usually due to that bastard Gareth Southgate badger.


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## Dr Alimantado (Mar 13, 2012)

It's pretty obvious on his Radio 5 show (not my choice) that Murray's middle class. Pub landlord is a dreadful act.

buthers' hit on a great point. I think the BBC favours Oxbridge graduates as employees plus confidence is important in comedy. Public schools tell them the world's their lobster & they don't have it knocked out of them.


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## articul8 (Mar 13, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> A ten minute wikipedia trawl just then shows that from monthy python-->goodies-->not the nine of clock news-->the young ones-->the comic strip-->blackadder-->french and saunders-->fry and laurie and so on (and this extends further) - everyone private school apart from chris ryan and peter richardson. Doesn't that say something more than whether they're funny or not? (and most of them are).


 
Who are chris ryan and peter richardson?  This is undoubtedly true to some extent (assume it's true of shite like Armstrong and Miller and the latest crappy female version.  Ed Stourton's son is in a stand-up act [straight from Footlights?]

There are exceptions though? Billy Connolly, Frank Skinner etc.?


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## Balbi (Mar 13, 2012)

Chris ryan was mike in the young ones. Richardsons from the comic strip.


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## Dr Alimantado (Mar 13, 2012)

articul8 said:


> This is undoubtedly true to some extent (assume it's true of shite like Armstrong and Miller and the latest crappy female version.   [straight from Footlights?]


 
Watson & summat? - according to another thread they didn't to public school (went to same grammar school), but you're probably right about footlights...but definitely right - they are crap


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## danny la rouge (Mar 13, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nope, on his 1st TV series, "The Harry Hill Show". Al Murray was "Alan Hill", and Bert Kwouk was Bert Kwouk.
> 
> And there was a badger parade at the end of each show.


I never saw that.  I like TV Burp.


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## Balbi (Mar 13, 2012)

Is this because he acts like hes not posh in his most known comedy act? Like that Nick Griffin bloke.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2012)

i'm surprised ben elton didn't go to oxbridge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Elton


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## imposs1904 (Mar 13, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Chris ryan was mike in the young ones. Richardsons from the comic strip.


 
And Chris Ryan only got the role of Mike because Peter Richardson was already committed to another project at the time.


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## ska invita (Mar 13, 2012)

There are lots of non-public school comedians on tv...i would guess people like bill bailey, russ howard, the bald bloke off mock the week, paul merton, micky whatshisface, shappi khorsandi, gina yashere, jo brand, eddie izzard, noel fielding, russel brand, jonathan ross, little welsh man in a box, that new woman who jsut got her own show sarah something? , harry enfield and paul whitehouse, omid djalili, sean locke, steve coogan, peter kay ... maybe some of those are, i dont know. Theres probably others. And i'm not missing bernard manning, roy chubby or jim davidson

Yes Oxbridge run the media and beyond, and on the whole im with Ian Bone on this, but comedy is one of those things that the people decide who gets in or not, as everyone has to work their way through the comedy circuit for years before making it to tv. Alan Partridge is evidence of how hard it is to get your own show  If you're shit you get heckled. 

Jack Whitenhall 's face popping up on tv creates an automatic channel flick here though, ideally before he's said a single word. David Mitchell is starting to move into that category too.


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## redsquirrel (Mar 14, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nope, on his 1st TV series, "The Harry Hill Show". Al Murray was "Alan Hill", and Bert Kwouk was Bert Kwouk.
> 
> And there was a badger parade at the end of each show.


The badgers were replaced by the owls in the second season IIRC.

Harry Hill employing scab labour


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> monthy python-->goodies-->not the nine of clock news-->the young ones-->the comic strip-->blackadder-->french and saunders-->fry and laurie (and most of them are).





ska invita said:


> There are lots of non-public school comedians on tv...i would guess people like bill bailey, russ howard, the bald bloke off mock the week, paul merton, micky whatshisface, shappi khorsandi, gina yashere, jo brand, eddie izzard, noel fielding, russel brand, jonathan ross, little welsh man in a box, that new woman who jsut got her own show sarah something? , harry enfield and paul whitehouse, omid djalili, sean locke, steve coogan, peter kay ...


Spot the generation gap.

Of that earlier era: Morcambe and Wise, Brucie, Max Wall, all of The Comedians (the show) - hundreds of them, err, On The Buses, Til Death Us Do Part, Liver Birds, Minder, etc.


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

al murray did a bbc four documentary a year or so ago with the aim of 'discovering' the 'real germany'. it was the worst documentary ive ever seen. 

as already mentioned his finest hour was as harry hills brother alan. i used to have a german housemate and he thought the pub landlord was hillarious but ime germans are very easily pleased when it comes to comedy.


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## ymu (Mar 14, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I've always denounced him as a bit of a prick tbh..... He's about the comic quality of harry hill, talentless and iritating


Harry is brilliant. Murray is not.


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## ymu (Mar 14, 2012)

ska invita said:


> Yes Oxbridge run the media and beyond, and on the whole im with Ian Bone on this, but comedy is one of those things that the people decide who gets in or not, as everyone has to work their way through the comedy circuit for years before making it to tv. Alan Partridge is evidence of how hard it is to get your own show  If you're shit you get heckled.


And if you're middle-class, you're more likely to know someone who commissions TV shows and books comedians or can introduce you to the right people. If you went to Oxbridge, you had a chance to cut your teeth in proper theatres, with professional production standards and budgets, working with some hugely gifted people, some of whom have been doing this for years already, and are being seen by every talent scout out there in sellout shows.

Of course it makes a bloody difference.


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

Ian Bone's not *really* a comedy man, on the whole. Not someone whom one would look to for recommendations, or general mirth. If you like a life where you wake up and wonder just which hair shirt to put on, he's your man. But he's not exactly "go out for a laugh with your mates" at the weekend type of fellah.

Whilst he can - oh and of course he will - slag off the likes of Stewart Lee, the truth is that unlike them Ian Bone's never going to get any kind of half decent message to anything other than a tiny handful of people, because he's a dullard. There's been, and still are, people with interesting things to say that aren't all sackcloth and ashes. Ian Bone? I'd be as much interested in Ian Paisley's views on the comedy scene.

My name's Ian Bone, I'll be here all decade. (Fuck off).


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

You know the woman who was the minister in the Thick Of It after the paedophile guy?  Her kids call Al Murray "uncle Al".


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> You know the woman who was the minister in the Thick Of It after the paedophile guy? Her kids call Al Murray "uncle Al".


 
Why?


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> Ian Bone's not *really* a comedy man, on the whole. Not someone whom one would look to for recommendations, or general mirth. If you like a life where you wake up and wonder just which hair shirt to put on, he's your man. But he's not exactly "go out for a laugh with your mates" at the weekend type of fellah.
> 
> Whilst he can - oh and of course he will - slag off the likes of Stewart Lee, the truth is that unlike them Ian Bone's never going to get any kind of half decent message to anything other than a tiny handful of people, because he's a dullard. There's been, and still are, people with interesting things to say that aren't all sackcloth and ashes. Ian Bone? I'd be as much interested in Ian Paisley's views on the comedy scene.
> 
> My name's Ian Bone, I'll be here all decade. (Fuck off).



I dunno, I've met Ian Bone 2 or 3 times and found him surprisingly good company.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> Why?


Cosy upper middle class inbreeding? Don't know.  It was revealed on Room 101, but Frank Skinner just left it.  Paxo would have been on it like a flash.


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> I dunno, I've met Ian Bone 2 or 3 times and found him surprisingly good company.


 
Surprisingly is the key word there


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> Surprisingly is the key word there


Which is why I said it. I'm willing to admit I had misjudged him.


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Which is why I said it. I'm willing to admit I had misjudged him.


 
Fair dos, but it's not most people's exposure. He's got a platform. One he's created, not the media.


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Cosy upper middle class inbreeding? Don't know. It was revealed on Room 101, but Frank Skinner just left it. Paxo would have been on it like a flash.


 
Some kids call someone 'Uncle' and "Paxo would have been on it like a flash".

WTF?


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> Some kids call someone 'Uncle' and "Paxo would have been on it like a flash".
> 
> WTF?


To be fair you'd have been on it like a flash, too.  The first thing you asked was "why?".  No messing.  Frank just let it slide past.


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## Mr Moose (Mar 14, 2012)

It's true that in comedy as elsewhere social relations and advantage play out. It would be a beautiful surprise to find a sphere where this doesn't apply. 

Class is probably less stark a divide here than gender and race. On the whole though comedy does have it's plusses. It's cheap to do and if you are excellent there is a route......which usually ends in an overstayed welcome.


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> To be fair you'd have been on it like a flash, too. The first thing you asked was "why?". No messing. Frank just let it slide past.


 
The Why was aimed at you, trying to understand your point. I'm not sure I really do, tbh.


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## jakethesnake (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> Surprisingly is the key word there


I've always found Class War to be quite funny in an acerbic sort of way. Never met Bone but I imagine he'd be witty and acerbic too.


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## ymu (Mar 14, 2012)

Mr Moose said:


> It's true that in comedy as elsewhere social relations and advantage play out. It would be a beautiful surprise to find a sphere where this doesn't apply.


Indeed:





> The inquiry also heard that Fedorcio's son had undertaken work experience at the Sun, as had the children of two past commissioners
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/13/met-police-pr-now-contract


 
You have to be good to succeed at anything, but you also have to be lucky. And the better connected you are, the more 'luck' will come your way.


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

jakethesnake said:


> I've always found Class War to be quite funny in an acerbic sort of way. Never met Bone but I imagine he'd be witty and acerbic too.


 
It probably helps if you're on side. I enjoy malatesta's blog about the comedy-crapness of the EDL, for example, but some people here hate it for not being serious enough.


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## jakethesnake (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> It probably helps if you're on side. I enjoy malatesta's blog about the comedy-crapness of the EDL, for example, but some people here hate it for not being serious enough.


Oh yeah, for sure. I can't imagine many yuppies found being attacked with a shit filled condom very funny, i on the other hand found it hilarious!


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

jakethesnake said:


> Oh yeah, for sure. I can't imagine many yuppies found being attacked with a shit filled condom very funny, i on the other hand found it hilarious!


 
Google's not giving me anything for "Ian Bone Shit Condom" - got a link?


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## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2012)

The shit filled condom thing was some people from chumbawamba taking the piss out of what they saw as the crude nature of some of class wars politics wasn't it?


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## ska invita (Mar 14, 2012)

ymu said:


> And if you're middle-class, you're more likely to know someone who commissions TV shows and books comedians or can introduce you to the right people. If you went to Oxbridge, you had a chance to cut your teeth in proper theatres, with professional production standards and budgets, working with some hugely gifted people, some of whom have been doing this for years already, and are being seen by every talent scout out there in sellout shows.
> 
> Of course it makes a bloody difference.


I didnt say it makes zero difference, and of course medialand is run by an elite, and if you get connected its easier to move on, but im just making the point that comedy, perhaps more than any other cultural art form, is based on what people like, rather than the other way around...open mic nights and the comedy circuit see to that. Even on the dance music scene for example, doors are kept tightly closed to new talent, not by oxbridge, but by the current top lot. The doors to pop music had been blown open in the past, but it seems they've been closed again somewhat of late.

 Getting onto TV as a comedian is another matter, and what happens from then on in is much murkier, but I still make the point that comedy really allows anyone to have a go. There are so many comedy clubs to play, and so many slots to fill, and so many open mic nights, that if you want to work your way up and you have talent, the opportunity is there. My impression is that talent is rewarded in comedy much more so than in other fields. Are there examples of brilliant comedians on the circuit hitting a glass ceiling because of a lack of connections?

To learn to be good at comedy doenst need flash theatres, it means being on the circuit, seeing lots of comedians do their bit, and improving by cutting it with a crowd. [rushed post]


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> The Why was aimed at you, trying to understand your point. I'm not sure I really do, tbh.


Why what, though?  Why do her kids call Al Murray "uncle Al"?  Either he's related, or he's a close family friend.


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

Pretty well anyone can make a pitch to (even!) the BBC nowadays, obv helps if you have some track record. School or Uni not relevant.

Gervais/Merchant are a reasonable example of non-public school types building an entertainment  cv before making their big tv pitch.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Why what, though? Why do her kids call Al Murray "uncle Al"? Either he's related, or he's a close family friend.


Not necessarily. A few kids round here call me auntie and they're not relatives, nor have they or their families have been round my house, or me to theirs.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Not necessarily. A few kids round here call me auntie and they're not relatives, nor have they or their families have been round my house, or me to theirs.


Ah.  That's a new one on me.  Round here that'd be "mister" or "missus".


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 14, 2012)

It's a Caribbean/African thing. It's affectionate and respectful.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> It's a Caribbean/African thing. It's affectionate and respectful.


Don't you have to know the person for that?

Anyway, neither Rebecca Front (I think that's her name) nor Al Murray is Caribbean/African.


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## Santino (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Don't you have to know the person for that?
> 
> Anyway, neither Rebecca Front (I think that's her name) nor Al Murray is Caribbean/African.


What, just because they're white?

Racist.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 14, 2012)

All the kids round here know me


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Don't you have to know the person for that?
> 
> Anyway, neither Rebecca Front (I think that's her name) nor Al Murray is Caribbean/African.


 
I was called Uncle in my old local caff. They weren't Carribbean/African either. If I'd have made a guess, I'd have said Turkish.

I'm still no wiser as to what the significance is. Someone's kids know someone else. Why would that be on Newsnight?


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

A turn for the bizarre... caffeine, anyone?


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> I'm still no wiser as to what the significance is. Someone's kids know someone else. Why would that be on Newsnight?


It wasn't.  It was on Room 101.  That's what I said.


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## paolo (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> It wasn't. It was on Room 101. That's what I said.


 
So what did you mean about "Paxo would be right on it" ?

Did you mean one of his other programmes, like University Challenge? Or maybe not Paxman, maybe gravy?*

* Oops. I've just realised Paxo is stuffing, not gravy.


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> It's a Caribbean/African thing. It's affectionate and respectful.


It's quite normal for close friends of the family to be called aunty or uncle by kids IME.


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

Is he insinuating there was an insinuation, perhaps?

/insinu


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## Balbi (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Cosy upper middle class inbreeding? Don't know. It was revealed on Room 101, but Frank Skinner just left it. Paxo would have been on it like a flash.


 
Probably to do with them working together on Time Gentlemen Please, and the 5live show...? People working together establish close friendship shocker


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> So what did you mean about "Paxo would be right on it" ?


That was my second post on the matter.  It was in reply to you asking "why?".  Frank Skinner didn't get to the bottom of it.  Paxo might have.

Jesus.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> It's quite normal for close friends of the family to be called aunty or uncle by kids IME.


Yeah, but my point was I'm not close friends with the family, or even friends, I'm just someone the kids know as being OK.


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Yeah, but my point was I'm not close friends with the family, or even friends, I'm just someone the kids know as being OK.


Ahhhh, I get you now.


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## Santino (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't think Paxman would be a very good Room 101 presenter.


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

tbf, it's been a while since he was any good on Newsnight.


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## jakethesnake (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> Google's not giving me anything for "Ian Bone Shit Condom" - got a link?


No, sorry. I remember it from a Class War compilation book I used to have years ago... it was a sequence of photos showing a couple of naughty scamps ambushing yuppies...


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

solidyeoman said:


> 'Hound him mercilessly'says Herring on Ian Bone's blog. This could get interesting.
> www.ianbone.wordpress.com


Yeah, but Herring went to Oxford. He's not exactly what you'd call working class either.


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## Balbi (Mar 14, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> Yeah, but Herring went to Oxford. He's not exactly what you'd call working class either.


 
I believe Mr Bone's probably mistaken a bit of inter-friend banter as serious.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

Balbi said:


> I believe Mr Bone's probably mistaken a bit of inter-friend banter as serious.


I think you're probably right.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2012)

paolo said:


> Google's not giving me anything for "Ian Bone Shit Condom" - got a link?


 
http://libcom.org/gallery/class-war-bashing-rich

It seems to have been a pisstake, as Butcher's said.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Do you really not get the wider point? The one about elite dominance of what is supposed to be our popular culture and how that normalises certain traits and ideas? If we argue that elite dominance of political, legal, economic institutions (state and otherwise) says something pretty damning about how society is organised, and that this setup actively damages society then why the hell should be not be able to point to the same thing happening in the cultural sphere. It's not about whether they're funny or not ffs.
> 
> A ten minute wikipedia trawl just then shows that from monthy python-->goodies-->not the nine of clock news-->the young ones-->the comic strip-->blackadder-->french and saunders-->fry and laurie and so on (and this extends further) - everyone private school apart from chris ryan and peter richardson. Doesn't that say something more than whether they're funny or not? (and most of them are).


 
I agree with this , but think Bone misses the wider point on his blog. He's done a load of posts of the "rich and powerful person comes from privileged background shock horror!" variety. He's not _wrong_, but it does get a bit boring...


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Why what, though? Why do her kids call Al Murray "uncle Al"? Either he's related, or he's a close family friend.


 
Or they think he's Aleister Crowley.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

ska invita said:


> There are lots of non-public school comedians on tv...i would guess people like bill bailey, russ howard, the bald bloke off mock the week, paul merton, micky whatshisface, shappi khorsandi, gina yashere, jo brand, eddie izzard, noel fielding, russel brand, jonathan ross, little welsh man in a box, that new woman who jsut got her own show sarah something? , harry enfield and paul whitehouse, omid djalili, sean locke, steve coogan, peter kay ... maybe some of those are, i dont know. Theres probably others. And i'm not missing bernard manning, roy chubby or jim davidson
> 
> Yes Oxbridge run the media and beyond, and on the whole im with Ian Bone on this, but comedy is one of those things that the people decide who gets in or not, as everyone has to work their way through the comedy circuit for years before making it to tv. Alan Partridge is evidence of how hard it is to get your own show  If you're shit you get heckled.
> 
> Jack Whitenhall 's face popping up on tv creates an automatic channel flick here though, ideally before he's said a single word. David Mitchell is starting to move into that category too.


 
Bill Bailey and Eddie Izzard both went to public schools but not Oxbridge.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

The writers of The Young Ones did not go to public school but one of the show's stars, Nigel Planer (Neil the hippy), attended Westminster School... but then so did Shane McGowan.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Or they think he's Aleister Crowley.


Possibly.  He looks the part.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Possibly. He looks the part.


 
But without the redeeming drug addiction and mild sociopathy.


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## Wolveryeti (Mar 14, 2012)

Who cares whether such-and-such went to which school as long as they are funny?


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

theres always going to be examples of non public school/oxbridge types getting into comedy but i dont think you can doubt the very well worn route of oxbridge to the bbc. it seems like virtually anyone who was a member of cambridge footlights its pretty much guaranteed a career in comedy regardless of their actual talent. my current pet hate is him and her which is the one of the worst things ever shown on the bbc and that was written by the former footlights president and stars someone who used to be in footlights.


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## ymu (Mar 14, 2012)

Wolveryeti said:


> Who cares whether such-and-such went to which school as long as they are funny?


Because it means middle-class culture is represented by the likes of Stephen Fry and working-class culture sneered at by the likes of Al Murray.

It's a bit shit, is what it is.


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

binka said:


> it seems like virtually anyone who was a member of cambridge footlights its pretty much guaranteed a career in comedy regardless of their actual talent.


Where does nonsense like this come from?

Fwiw, it really does not seem that way. Here's a list of alumni "guaranteed a career in comedy regardless .." since 2000:

http://footlights.org/alumni-archive?name=2000-


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## sam/phallocrat (Mar 14, 2012)

Wolveryeti said:


> Who cares whether such-and-such went to which school as long as they are funny?


 
you do realise what website this is, right?


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## ymu (Mar 14, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Where does nonsense like this come from?
> 
> Fwiw, it really does not seem that way. Here's a list of alumni "guaranteed a career in comedy regardless .." since 2000:
> 
> http://footlights.org/alumni-archive?name=2000-


How long do you think it takes for people to become household names?

Any chance of you linking us to their professional biographies?


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Where does nonsense like this come from?
> 
> Fwiw, it really does not seem that way. Here's a list of alumni "guaranteed a career in comedy regardless .." since 2000:
> 
> http://footlights.org/alumni-archive?name=2000-


you're such a fucking clown obviosuly it isn't literally true since they must have dozens of members every year. the point i was making was that if you compare the amount of people the bbc have employed who used to be in footlights they would be vastly over represented compared to any other group/institution. the most recent example im aware of is stefan golaszewski (former president of footlights) who has got 3 series out of the bbc for possibly one of the worst comedies bbc3 has ever produced


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

It isn't true in any sense. It isn't even close to almost-but-not-quite-true in any sense. In fact, it's not remotely true. It's .... false.


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

ymu said:


> Any chance of you linking us to their professional biographies?


Sure, you just hang on in there. I'll be right back - just a few moments.


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> It isn't true in any sense. It isn't even close to almost-but-not-quite-true in any sense. In fact, it's not remotely true. It's .... false.


is this another one of your grand statements that absolutely wont turn out to be bollocks? you have got form in this area tbh.


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

Oooh, it's now about ME, and no longer about a completely vacuous, bullshit statement!

/tbh


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## xes (Mar 14, 2012)

Anyway, Al Murray's a good comedian, he rolls off a very good parody of the racist fuckwits which inhabit these Ilses. But many people think he's actually being a racist fuckwit, but that's just them missing several, rather obvious points about his act. And he pisses all over that twunt harry Hill, from a great height.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 14, 2012)

any posh comedy racists or is sending up racists only funny from a certain perspective?


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh fucking hell. I think the general point about the dominaton of public school types in comedy still holds, yes?

Also, at the foot of that Footlights list is Sophie Winkelman, who is listed in the Daily Mail today as one of "Britain's 50 most powerful posh people under 30".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-posh-people-30-From-catwalk-Westminster.html

Being in Footlights/Cambridge clearly has not been a huge impediment to her...


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> any posh comedy racists or is sending up racists only funny from a certain perspective?


From a certain perspective - the one that makes money off an audience for the comedian.


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Oooh, it's now about ME, and no longer about a completely vacuous, bullshit statement!
> 
> /tbh


http://footlights.org/alumni-archive?name=1990-1999

there were 10 presidents in the 1990s.

of those 10 these:

matt green
kevin baker
richard ayoade
david mitchell
robert thorogood
mark evans
dan gaster
sue perkins

have definitely worked for bbc comedy

the only two im not sure about are sarah moule and charlie harthill.


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> It isn't true in any sense. It isn't even close to almost-but-not-quite-true in any sense. In fact, it's not remotely true. It's .... false.


so is 80% of presidents from the 90s going on to work for bbc comedy statistically insignificant? about what you would expect from any university comedy group is it?


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## Jeff Robinson (Mar 14, 2012)

ymu said:


> Because it means middle-class culture is represented by the likes of Stephen Fry and working-class culture sneered at by the likes of Al Murray.
> 
> It's a bit shit, is what it is.


 
Al Murray hardly sneers at 'working-class culture', it's the culture of the little Englander petit bourgeois he's having a go at. In fact, I'd say that Richard Herring is actually more guilty of anti-working prejudice than Murray is. I read an interview with him once where he said that was worried that people would misconstrue some of his ironic humor in the way that Al Murray's audience were prone to. I couldnt help but think what he was getting at here was that Murray's cartoon bigotry was all to subtle for his working class fan base. There is that general double standard in comedy ime that when the middle classes play around with racism, sexism and xenophobia it is always ironic satire but when the working classes do it it's only a reflection of their own prejudices.

On humour, like Belushi says, Murray was a very good character comedian back in the 1990s, but his act has long since got stale, not to mention his abysmal comedy sketch show featuring such gems as the camp nazi.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

Wolveryeti said:


> Who cares whether such-and-such went to which school as long as they are funny?


On one level that's absolutely true. When I'm sitting down in front of the telly to watch something funny, I just want it to be funny.

The point that Bone makes (rather badly for the most part, but that's another story) is that as with many other areas in society, the very small percentage who went to private school and/or Oxbridge is vastly over-represented. 7% of people go to private schools. If only 7% of panelists who have appeared on HIGNFY (or any other panel show) over the years have been privately educated, I'll eat their old school tie.

Of course there are state comp-educated working class comics. The point is that there should be far, far more. The proportion should reflect the proportions that exist in society. They don't, not even close. That raises the question: why? Because working class people can't be funny? Nope. That isn't why.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

xes said:


> Anyway, Al Murray's a good comedian, he rolls off a very good parody of the racist fuckwits which inhabit these Ilses. But many people think he's actually being a racist fuckwit, but that's just them missing several, rather obvious points about his act. And he pisses all over that twunt harry Hill, from a great height.


But is he funny? He isn't. He may be a very nice man, I don't know. But he doesn't make me laugh at all. Harry Hill on the other hand does.

I realise that this is entirely a matter of taste, but that's my opinion, and you're entitled to yours.


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## ymu (Mar 14, 2012)

_*London_Calling in making glib and obviously wrong statement based on piss poor research, corrected with ease by thinking poster shock*_


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## 5t3IIa (Mar 14, 2012)

binka said:


> the only two im not sure about are sarah moule and charlie harthill.


 
Harthill - dead
Moule - not in comedy


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## ymu (Mar 14, 2012)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Al Murray hardly sneers at 'working-class culture', it's the culture of the little Englander petit bourgeois he's having a go at. In fact, I'd say that Richard Herring is actually more guilty of anti-working prejudice than Murray is. I read an interview with him once where he said that was worried that people would misconstrue some of his ironic humor in the way that Al Murray's audience were prone to. I couldnt help but think what he was getting at here was that Murray's cartoon bigotry was all to subtle for his working class fan base. There is that general double standard in comedy ime that when the middle classes play around with racism, sexism and xenophobia it is always ironic satire but when the working classes do it it's only a reflection of their own prejudices.
> 
> On humour, like Belushi says, Murray was a very good character comedian back in the 1990s, but his act has long since got stale, not to mention his abysmal comedy sketch show featuring such gems as the camp nazi.


I agree about Herring, as it happens. And Lee, as it goes - although he is a great deal better now he's grown up a bit. It's an idiot trap that most highly educated middle-class soft-left/liberal types fall into. Good article on that in the Guardian today, as it happens: Liberal conviction affirmed by polling about faith!

But I do think Al Murray sneers at working-class culture - he's parodying a working-class stereotype, upon whom the joke is. Shameless is affectionate, Murray is sneering.


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> Harthill - dead
> Moule - not in comedy


i bow down to your superior googling skills.

still 80%. that must be about right i would have thought? i'd imagine at one time or another 80% of the entire population has worked for bbc comedy.


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## 5t3IIa (Mar 14, 2012)

binka said:


> i bow down to your superior googling skills.
> 
> still 80%. that must be about right i would have thought? i'd imagine at one time or another 80% of the entire population has worked for bbc comedy.


 
Don't bow, it's a collaboration.


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## xes (Mar 14, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> But is he funny? He isn't. He may be a very nice man, I don't know. But he doesn't make me laugh at all. Harry Hill on the other hand does.
> 
> I realise that this is entirely a matter of taste, but that's my opinion, and you're entitled to yours.


I don't find Harry Hill funny in the slightest, pretty much everything he says is a carbon copy of everything else he ever says. He just makes me faceplam myself so much, if I watched an entire episode of TV burps, I'd end up with a brain injury. He is quite possibly the most unfunny person on TV. (IMO obviously)


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

you can tell a lot about a person based on their opinion of harry hill

obviously i think he's brilliant


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## xes (Mar 14, 2012)

binka said:


> you can tell a lot about a person based on their opinion of harry hill
> 
> obviously i think he's brilliant


I bet you like Last of the Summer Wine aswell, you wrongun. (that was also, 100% predicable SHITE)


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## DotCommunist (Mar 14, 2012)

tv clip programs were never funny untill he started doing burp. Dennis Norden hasn't a look in


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

I have to say that I often found Herring to be pompous and self-regarding. He was certainly never friendly when I encountered him on the circuit. Punt and Dennis were also rather condescending. Both of them went to Oxbridge and public school. When they were given the Now Show, they culled all the comedians who didn't 'fit in'. One such comedian was Mark Steel, who never went to public school or Oxbridge or any uni come to think of it.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

xes said:


> I bet you like Last of the Summer Wine aswell, you wrongun. (that was also, 100% predicable SHITE)


As was this post.


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## London_Calling (Mar 14, 2012)

binka said:


> so is 80% of presidents from the 90s going on to work for bbc comedy statistically insignificant? about what you would expect from any university comedy group is it?


I appreciate you making an effort but the world does know of the link between Cambridge Footlights and the BBC - even if you have nothing more recent than 12 years ago, and even if you had to focus on Presidents. That wasn't really your point though.


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> I appreciate you making an effort but the world does know of the link between Cambridge Footlights and the BBC - even if you have nothing more recent than 12 years ago, and even if you had to focus on Presidents. That wasn't really your point though.


wasn't it my point? hang on i'll go back and check what i said:


binka said:


> the point i was making was that if you compare the amount of people the bbc have employed who used to be in footlights they would be vastly over represented compared to any other group/institution.


to which you replied (iirc)


London_Calling said:


> It isn't true in any sense. It isn't even close to almost-but-not-quite-true in any sense. In fact, it's not remotely true. It's .... false.


 
'it isnt true in any sense. it isnt even close to almost-but-not-quite-true in any sense. in fact, it's not remotely true. it's...false'

i repeated it again for your benefit because what happened next was i went through the 10 presidents from the 90s and found evidence of 8 of them going on to work for the bbc. now also for your benefit i have started going through the cast lists from the 90s. so far i have done 99/00 and 98/99 and these people:

John Finnemore
Marianne Levy
Ed Weeks
Robin French
Naomi Kerbel
Finnian O'Neill
Richard Thomson

have also gone on to work for the bbc. the only two i could find no evidence for were victoria morris and alex bonham.

so i have looked at 19 people who wrote or performed with cambridge footlights in the 90s and found that 15 of them went on to work for the bbc. i know you're a fan of stats so you will know of course that works out at 78.9%.

so do you still stand by:
"'it isnt true in any sense. it isnt even close to almost-but-not-quite-true in any sense. in fact, it's not remotely true. it's...false'"


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## binka (Mar 14, 2012)

oh yeah and all these people:
Alex Horne
Tim Key
Day Macaskill
Sophie Winkleman
Stefan Golaszewski
Tom Basden
Lloyd Thomas
Emily Howes
Jot Davies
Nick Mohammed
Ed Coleman
Jonny Sweet
Sarah Solemani
Simon Bird
Nadia Kamil
Amy Hoggart

were in cambridge footlights 2000-2009 and have worked for the bbc. theres probably more but many of the names are too common to google easily

so i think it can be comprehensively stated that london calling is completely wrong


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## ska invita (Mar 14, 2012)

Good effort Binka. 
I tell you what is an out and out jobscheme-a-thon for humourless oxbridge/footlights also rans - that 'comedy' slot on radio 4. Its the  welfare-state-gone mad.


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## London_Calling (Mar 15, 2012)

binka, this was your point, and the cause of this exchange:


binka said:


> it seems like virtually anyone who was a member of cambridge footlights its pretty much guaranteed a career in comedy regardless of their actual talent.


 
What you've quoted a couple of posts up was your new position after you moved your goalposts the first time.

It doesn't matter. The sun is out.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 15, 2012)

have a fight


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## tommers (Mar 15, 2012)

I call my neighbour grandma. She isn't my real grandmother.  She is Caribbean though.

I don't think she's been in footlights but she might have worked at the beeb, I'll ask her.

Any other way I can help?


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## Jon-of-arc (Mar 15, 2012)

Anyway, it's hardly a secret that oxbridge, especially Revue & footlights, is an easy way to get into media and, specifically, television comedy.  I don't see this as quite the point Bone was making though.  And even if it is or was, it's not really as much of a politically charged issue as, say, the dominance of the cabinet by old-etonians.  In fact, I really couldn't give a fuck who's on TV trying to make me laugh, as long as they do make me laugh.

And bone quite specifically states quite a few times that these people aren't funny, and that the reason they aren't funny is because they are posh.  Which is bullshit.


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## binka (Mar 15, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> It doesn't matter. The sun is out.


of course it doesnt matter. its just another instance in a long line of you talking bollocks but i thought on this occassion it might be beneficial to point out how completely and utterly wrong you are.


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## London_Calling (Mar 15, 2012)

Can I help you carry those goalposts, they must be getting heavy by now?


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## Captain Hurrah (Mar 20, 2012)

Great thread.


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## fractionMan (Mar 20, 2012)

you've got to love ian bone


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## Captain Hurrah (Mar 20, 2012)

Not really.


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