# MMA - Mixed Martial Arts (aka Ultimate Fighting)



## Bernie Gunther (Jan 14, 2010)

I like Numbers' idea of having a boxing thread, but I also enjoy MMA, so I'm making a thread for that. 

Here's Fedor's latest bout, vs boxer Brett Rogers. 



For people more used to watching boxing, a bit of background on this stuff to make it easier to interpret. 

First the politics. There's a sort of Don King figure called Dana White who runs the UFC (the 'Ultimate Fighting' of editor's edit to the title), which is the US-based MMA organisation and frankly I think he embarrasses martial artists, and not just those unfortunate enough to be contracted to him, with his tendency to employ professional wrestling style bullshit to excite stupid Americans. Meanwhile Fedor, easily the dominant heavyweight of the past decade, has always fought for various Japanese MMA organisations, mostly Pride, until it was bought out by the UFC last year. So there's a bit of a confused situation with regard to the world title, and a lot of US fans chest-beating about how 'Roid Rhino (I can't recall his real name, but if you see a picture you'll know why he's 'Roid Rhino in my mind), the latest UFC badboy (he has what appears to be a large manly penis tattooed on his chest) would eat Fedor alive. I'm somewhat sceptical, given what's happened to all the other UFC bad-boys who have faced the potato-headed Russian caveman in the past. At any event Fedor won't fight for UFC because he doesn't want any part of the Don King type contracts involved and he always looks faintly embarrassed when asked about whatever stupid UFC bullshit Dana White and his guys are currently spouting. He's getting on a bit and will probably lose his title/number one ranking fairly soon, but he's still absolutely deadly as the above bout demonstrates vividly. 

A bit about technique. Early MMA tournaments, to great general surprise, were won by grapplers. Specifically Brazilian Ju-Jitsu (BJJ) exponents. BJJ is a Judo variant, but very 'unsporting' old-fashioned Judo, from around 1900 (which is approximately when the guy who taught the Brazilians left Japan, I think it might even have been still called "Kano-Ryu Ju-Jitsu" back then) with a lot of Lancashire wrestling and other stuff mixed in. (Maeda, the guy who taught the Brazilians was a sort of roving ambassador for the Kodokan, taught by one of Kano's four original champion students, the guys who beat (according to poorly documented legends) traditional Ju-Jitsu's finest to put Judo on the map, taking on all-comers in challenge bouts in the UK, Europe and the Americas for about 20 years before settling in Brazil, so his Judo incorporated what he'd learned from two decades of fighting and generally beating shitloads of boxers and wrestlers.) Key thing is in a match fight, unlike a street-fight, there's no reason not to commit fully to grappling. Traditional Ju-Jitsu generally doesn't go for e.g. a full mount (see below for details), but rather might hold the opponent down with a knee to apply a lock, in order to be able to GTFO if his mates show up. In a match fight there's no reason not to fully commit to groundwork if it's allowed, and BJJ is all about match fights with very few rules. 

The early dominance of the BJJ guys caused the stand up fighters to go off and learn grappling arts and that in turn caused the grapplers to learn standup. The modern MMA fighter really needs to be capable at stand-up (boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing), clinch fighting (Muay Thai, Greco-Roman and Judo), submission grappling (BJJ, Judo and Lancashire wrestling) and 'ground and pound' (basically sitting on the guy's chest and hitting him really hard in the face repeatedly). 

Even decent boxers will look terrible if they're doing MMA, because they're worried at all times about having their legs dragged from under them or otherwise getting dumped on the floor and having their arm twisted off. Hence you'll generally see a wide stance that aims to protect against these moves (by allowing for a 'sprawl' and/or 'eat the knee' defence against leg grabs and keeping the body more upright to protect against Judo or Greco-Roman style throws) and a generally wider distance between the fighters than you'd expect in a boxing ring, not only to give more warning of a grab for the legs, but due to the prevalance of Thai-style round kicks (with the shin typically striking the 'dead leg' point). Guards are also generally wider, to buffer high kicks if they seem like a possibility and lower to deal with takedown attempts. Another key difference is the clinch, in MMA as in Muay Thai, the fight continues in the clinch and typically knees, elbows, 'hold and hook' and a variety of throws are employed from there. In some ways the resulting stance is reminiscent of pre-Queensbury Rules boxing, if you look at old pictures of Tom Cribb et. al. No great surprise when you consider that wrestling moves were still allowed in those days. 

Rogers background mostly seems to be boxing, whereas Fedor is also world Sombo champion (a sort of Stalinist Judo) and was a reserve for the Russian Olympic Judo squad in his day. As you can probably tell from the fight above, Fedor isn't a terribly skilled boxer, although his haymakers are often brutally effective when they connect. What he is though is a tremendously skilled grappler who can hit like a wrecking-ball (his training regime seems to consist mostly of trying to beat old tractor tires to death), which means his best game is armlocks and strangles on the ground and sitting on someone's chest punching them repeatedly in the face. As he has to get people to the ground to do any of this, he generally doesn't mind eating jabs or their kick equivalent to throw haymakers because they put his opponent under pressure and generate chaos in which he can use his Judo/Sombo stuff (plus if any of those bombs actually _land_, then bye-bye baby) Conceptually, although very clearly not in terms of boxing technique, he's a bit like Hagler in the sense that his approach is almost invariably to apply constant pressure and disrupt his opponent's game, until he's got the opening he wants.


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## Bakunin (Jan 14, 2010)

And here's one from the 'old school' UFC archives, so folk new to MMA can see where modern MMA has its roots.

Paul Herrera takes on Gary 'Big Daddy' Goodridge and loses.

Very badly.


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## The Boy (Jan 14, 2010)

Been getting quite into the old MMA as a result of ESPN showing the UFC.

That punch from Fedor was quite something.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

Give it all the names you like, it is still basically lawless brawling. Myself and the Maquis are not impressed. Not impressed at all.


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 14, 2010)

Great fight. I love Fedor and I hope Strikeforce will take over the world!!!

Problem with UFC is that the management are full of cocks - and the lightweight division lacks substance.

Surely the likes of BJ Penn and GSP will get bored soon. 

I wish I could a link for this fight.
Never have I seen the Nightmare get killed like that


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## editor (Jan 14, 2010)

I've edited the title to give a bit more detail.


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## The Boy (Jan 14, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Problem with UFC is that the management are full of cocks.



This much has already become apparent from my bried flirtations with the format/franchise.


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## handy1 (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Give it all the names you like, it is still basically lawless brawling. Myself and the Maquis are not impressed. Not impressed at all.



Not my thing either,but the thread is for people who do like it i suppose.

See you back on the Boxing thread,D.C.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 14, 2010)

The Boy said:


> This much has already become apparent from my bried flirtations with the format/franchise.



I really find UFC hard to take because of all the professional wrestling style drama queen stuff. Much prefer the Japanese-run stuff. Less bullshit and in general, less restrictive rules.


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## Numbers (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Give it all the names you like, it is still basically lawless brawling. Myself and the Maquis are not impressed. Not impressed at all.


^^ this

Found that fight Bernie posted incredibly dull.  I love fighting, absolutely love it, but that was a load of rubbish IMO.

But... I'm not here to knock, absolutely love Bernie's posting generally so will keep a close eye.  I haven't read the edit on the OP just yet as I'm cookin dinner, but I will.

Show me something exciting tho' chaps.


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## sim667 (Jan 14, 2010)

does tank abbot still fight in UFC? He was a nasty fucker.


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## Numbers (Jan 14, 2010)

editor said:


> I've edited the title to give a bit more detail.


 whereas with 'Boxing' nothing else needs saying.

Bin this thread please Ed' - it's sacriligious!!!!


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## Bakunin (Jan 14, 2010)

sim667 said:


> does tank abbot still fight in UFC? He was a nasty fucker.



Abbott was suspended from fighting in the UFC after he attended UFC 8 (the same UFC with the Goodridge- Herrera bout link I posted earlier). He was in the crowd and got into, shall we say, something of a scuffle with some other spectators.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 14, 2010)

Numbers said:


> ^^ this
> 
> Found that fight Bernie posted incredibly dull.  I love fighting, absolutely love it, but that was a load of rubbish IMO.
> 
> ...



Yep, wasn't his best by any means. I picked that one 'cos it's recent and fairly non-technical. My worry is one that I'd think was a really good fight might be even duller to someone who doesn't know the technicalities of grappling (the wife's comment on the bout I'm thinking about presenting next was "it looks like two thuggish men having incredibly violent gay sex") 

Maybe I should give it a go anyway. OK, this is Fedor's breakthrough fight with almost nobody willing to believe he could handle the champ, an incredibly strong and seemingly KO-proof BJJ (see OP for explanation of BJJ) fighter called Nogueira. 

A certain amount of intelligent commentary from  on the soundtrack here which should be helpful. Basically what's happening is that Nog wants to fight from the BJJ 'full guard' position, on his back controlling Fedor with his legs and in an excellent position to get an armlock or strangle. It looks passive, but almost anything human is going to tap out (i.e. have to submit) in seconds if they end up in Nogueria's full-guard. I heard about someone who trained a bit with Nog in preparation for a professional bout, but didn't do groundwork with him 'because I didn't want to get my arms broken'. You can tell the the commentators think Fedor's nuts for even trying it. While he has Fedor in a closed guard, i.e. with his legs wrapped around him, Nog has enormous leverage to apply armlocks and can restrict the angles and distance Fedor can use to attack him. It may not look like it, because it's much easier to understand a punch in the face than all that tricky stuff they're doing with their arms, but Nog is tactically in a very strong position throughout the whole fight, *if* he can exploit it. 

In particular, Nog keeps going for what the BJJ guys call a 'Kimura' (properly called ude-garame) If you see Nog bending Fedor's arm into a sort of right angle to his body, that's it going on. It takes incredible strength and skill to get out of it from there. 

Fedor ideally wants to get past the legs and get into the 'mount' position, astride his chest, and then hammer the fuck out of Nog with his fists. While he's in the guard, when he attacks with his fists he's always at risk of a submission due to the leverage Nog's legs give him, but from the mount he can just beat Nog up for as long as he can stay there. That's why ideally Fedor wants to get past one or both legs and get onto Nog's chest into the 'mount', from there his position would be much stronger, because Nog doesn't have the leverage of his legs and Fedor can punch freely. He's also very nearly as good as Nog at the grappling stuff though, so he'll take an armlock or strangle if he can get one. He's putting pressure on non-stop in this round and it also becomes increasingly obvious that he's trained to deliver incredibly hard 'half-arm' punches (i.e. with no room to swing) while staying out of BJJ locks and that he's therefore going to try to beat the snot out of Nog without actually passing his guard and getting into a mount, an incredibly risky strategy because it's almost asking to be countered with an armlock or with a strangle applied using the legs.


In case it's not obvious, doing what those two were just doing for the last 10 mins is like playing speed chess while arm-wrestling, with the other guy punching you really hard in the face whenever he gets a chance. It's brutally exhausting and if your concentration slips for a fraction of a second, you're going to get locked and tap out.  

In the second round they pretty much keep doing the same stuff, although there's a nice illustration at the start of the round of the takedown stuff I was talking about in the OP. If you want to skip a round, skip this after they go back into the guard. The commentators are incredulous at Fedor's audacity in playing Nog's game and willingly going into his guard. It's the armlock equivalent of someone going toe to toe with Tyson in his prime. Nog also has a few goes at strangling Fedor with his legs, again one of his really strong techniques (listen for commentators talking about a 'triangle' to know when he does that) My feeling is that Nog is taking it easy this round, trying to get his wits back after the pummelling in round 1.


This is where it starts getting really interesting, to me at least. Nog knows he's behind, so he has to do something. Fedor craftily keeps offering him half-chances to get an armlock or a choke and when he goes for them, breaks free and throws a few more bombs at Nog's head while he's out of position. Again, I can't emphasise enough how dangerous that is. It's like showing an enraged and wounded Tyson your chin to pull off a fancy counter, over and over again.


Well, I hope that was a bit more interesting. I deliberately took a chance here with a very technical but very high-quality bout rather than something a bit more obvious. Hope you could see something there at least ...


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## Numbers (Jan 14, 2010)

Cheers Bernie.  Shall have a good read and watch tomorrow as am just skim surfing at the mo' as missus is making a racket next to me practising her driving theory on her laptop.  

Might ask her out on the cobbles if she doesn't pipe down sometime soon.

ffs she's reading out every question aloud


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 14, 2010)

Vid of Fedor - possibly the best fighter in the world. Sambo wrestling champ, super technical and has the most devestating arm-bars. 

and better still, UFC can't BUY him!


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## jigotai (Jan 14, 2010)

Documentary about two female MMA fighters - 10mins, BBC4

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pzcc0


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 14, 2010)

Technical fight?

Sudo Genki (best Japanese BJJ tatician ever) vs Royler Gracie (7th dan Black Belt BJJ grappler).


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 14, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Technical fight?
> 
> Sudo Genki (best Japanese BJJ tatician ever) vs Royler Gracie (7th dan Black Belt BJJ grappler).




Oh yeah, that's technical 

If you can find the Sergio Penha vs Rickson Gracie fight, I'd be grateful. I can't.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

shit me that third round is intense. It's still a little ott for me, not pugilism. But still an intense combat. I'd like to face neither of them in a one on one


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## kained&able (Jan 14, 2010)

Can't get into MMA(i'm sorry but anyone calling it ultimate fighting/UFC needs a slap, that is just one company) When someone works out how to include a moonsault into the fight i will be all over it though.

There are too many mounts and stuff for my liking. If the fighters stay on their feet most of the time i love it though. Some brutal brutal finishes, which i approve of.

That genki vs gracer fight was pretty lame. I'm going to have to watch a chris jericho DVD to get over it 


dave


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 14, 2010)

OK, I've decided to take the long way round here. Next up is Fedor vs former UFC champ Mark Coleman, a very competent wrestler and steroid enthusiast.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 14, 2010)

So that was a scene setter for the fight between Fedor and Coleman's formidable protege Kevin Randleman. I couldn't find a decent video of the fight, so I settled for a highlights one. Look out for the monster suplex by Randleman (Fedor just shook his head, got up and jumped on him again) and Fedor's use of ude-garame (what BJJ guys call a 'Kimura') to finish the bout.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 15, 2010)

Then there was an inconclusive rematch between Fedor and Nog after those matches with the yank 'roid boys, and Nog and Crocop and the yank 'roid boys fought a bit amongst each other, but then Fedor and Nog had a proper fight to unify the title. This time Nog had trained to fight standup with the idea of taking Fedor into *his* guard if he could take him down, and Fedor has a totally different plan from the last time, which makes this a little bit interesting 



He's even trying to psych him in round two ... 'Hey, not the fight you trained for eh tovarish? ... *whack*'



The guy at ringside in the grey tracksuit is Crocop, who will be the subject of our next presentation. Meanwhile Fedor steps up the pressure on Nogueira.


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## futha (Jan 15, 2010)

I used to think MMA was two guys rolling around on the floor. Fairly boring. I was the same as Dave, I liked it when they stood up but lost interest when it went to ground. Then I started going to MMA classes. Now I absolutely love it and it all makes much more sense! What before looked like rolling around on the ground now looks like a ever changing puzzle and I can appreciate it so much more. I didn't appreciate the skill involved until I tried it first hand.


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## Louloubelle (Jan 15, 2010)

jigotai said:


> Documentary about two female MMA fighters - 10mins, BBC4
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pzcc0




Thanks for that

Checked it out last night 

Really good documentary I enjoyed it immensely


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 15, 2010)

kained&able said:


> That genki vs gracer fight was pretty lame. I'm going to have to watch a chris jericho DVD to get over it
> 
> 
> dave



That Genki vs Gracie is REAL GRAPPLING.
An armbar, choke, knee lock takes a great deal of technical knowledge to pull off.

Then, I only like MMA because I practice wrestling.


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## tarannau (Jan 15, 2010)

TBH the grappling, as technical as it is, is one of the main reason why a lot of MMA fights are as dull as dishwater to me.

I appreciate the skills, much as I do one the same in appreciation of the skills of  a huge lineman in American Football, but I'd far rather see the whizz bang running and passing action. A good boxing match is a generally better spectacle than a highly skilled MMA bout at close quarters imo.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 15, 2010)

tarannau said:


> TBH the grappling, as technical as it is, is one of the main reason why a lot of MMA fights are as dull as dishwater to me.
> <snip>



I think this is the thing. I spent a number of years learning how to _do_ that sort of grappling, so it's hard for me to tell how opaque it is to others, but I suspect that's the big issue. I very much get the idea that it's not intrinsically interesting, any more than say Judo is unless you have some sort of idea what the fuck is going on. If you subtract the 'muscle-chess' from the first Fedor vs Nog match on the previous page, because you don't know the 'chess rules' and very possibly a lot of the time, can't actually tell when Nog is doing something extremely dangerous to Fedor, then what's left probably just looks like a crude and very one-sided beating. 

Boxing on the other hand has been optimised over the centuries as a spectacle as all the other stuff the renaissance era Masters of Defence did was dropped after they lost their monopoly on teaching fencing and James Figg got them into show business, because he quickly found that pugilism was more popular as a spectacle, then as it transformed from pugilism into boxing through the Broughton and Queensbury rules, the 'boring' wrestling stuff got dropped. 

If the grappling bit isn't clear, then most likely the relationship between the grappling and the other elements aren't clear either, so the stand-up or ground and pound bits just look like a crude punch-up between two drunk guys outside the pub. If your reference point is boxing they're going to look like a terrible parody of boxing when they stand up, but you most likely aren't going to see that what appear to be horrible sloppy wide sprawling stances are actually (at least with the competent guys) trying to cover against takedowns and kicks and that when e.g. Fedor throws crude haymakers what he's very often doing is creating openings for his grappling skills (although obviously if the haymaker _lands _he isn't going to complain)


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## kained&able (Jan 15, 2010)

I understand the skills involved in all the clutching/grappling type stuff, just find it boring to watch.

I find most martial arts boring to watch though. Judo at the olympics is really really boring and i suspect had i watched any real karate tournments i would feel the same. The problem is beacuse the fighetrs are all very skilled it ends up being a game of chess rather then a bruce lee film!


dave


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 15, 2010)

kained&able said:


> I understand the skills involved in all the clutching/grappling type stuff, just find it boring to watch.
> 
> I find most martial arts boring to watch though. Judo at the olympics is really really boring and i suspect had i watched any real karate tournments i would feel the same. The problem is beacuse the fighetrs are all very skilled it ends up being a *game of chess* rather then a bruce lee film!



Yes that is very true.

I guess you get the gist of MMA then.

I can't stand it when I go to an semi-pro MMA gig and you get fighters that don't the basics.  - getting tapped out by a guillotine choke is what you expect to happen during pub brawl. But in the ring - no way!!

(escape from guillotine (from link), if anyone does get you  in one - as I've noticed alot of street fights start with a guillotine - is simply your left arm over his shoulder. And move to the side of his body where your head is trapped. And horrah - you're have his side/back).

And the majority of the punters that attend semi-pro MMA fights haven't a clue. I often hear them shouting "smash 'im in da head" or "why don't he get off the floor and smack him one?"

These people give MMA a bad name...


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## Structaural (Jan 15, 2010)

Good thread Bernie, I've been a fan of MMA since the Royce Gracie dominant days, it was a bit mean back then; knees to downed opponent etc..
But fascinating to me and showed all the flashy stand-up skills up.

I love it, I love boxing as well, but this is more 'real' to me (as a stand-up martial artist myself *Wu-shu Kwan*), it's more like a real fight. It looks more brutal but there's much more brain injury in boxing because of the gloves. I love the tactical, _boring_ stuff, I've become quite a fan of Brazillian ju-jitsu (was even thinking of joining a class, there's some great ju-jitsu and muay-thai clubs in Amsterdam - MMA is very popular here - like the lanky fuckers need any more help .

I do watch UFC but the bullshit make it a joke at times. I've never seen  a fight fix quite like the Couture vs. Vera one. Couture basically won because he was better at clinching even though he got knocked out cold at one point.



100% masahiko said:


> Surely the likes of BJ Penn and GSP will get bored soon.
> 
> I wish I could a link for this fight.
> Never have I seen the Nightmare get killed like that



That was hilarious, highlight of my new year. 

'It's my destiny!' What to look like you got hit by a truck by the end of the fight?  Sanchez was totally outclassed and made to look like a tit.


I'd love to see Fedor beat the shit out of Brock Lesnar - mind you even in UFC he's pretty hated.


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## Structaural (Jan 15, 2010)

I love the Royce Gracie and Kazushi Sakuraba fights - pure grappling chess...


The one where Gracie is wearing his gi and Sakuraba keeps pulling it over his head to laughs from the audience is the reason Royce is gi-less in this fight.


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## kained&able (Jan 15, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Yes that is very true.
> 
> 
> (escape from guillotine (from link), if anyone does get you  in one - as I've noticed alot of street fights start with a guillotine - is simply your left arm over his shoulder. And move to the side of his body where your head is trapped. And horrah - you're have his side/back).
> ...



I seem to remember bobby lashely wining his 2nd(3rd??) MMA fight for the strikeforce promotion  via a guilitine choke.


dave


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## Bakunin (Jan 15, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> (escape from guillotine (from link), if anyone does get you  in one - as I've noticed alot of street fights start with a guillotine - is simply your left arm over his shoulder. And move to the side of his body where your head is trapped. And horrah - you're have his side/back).



Or, if you're a devotee of the 'Keith hackney Method' there's this, ahem, somewhat less ethical means of escape:


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 15, 2010)

kained&able said:


> I seem to remember bobby lashely wining his 2nd(3rd??) MMA fight for the strikeforce promotion  via a guilitine choke.
> 
> 
> dave



Gee...he made his situation worse by going to the ground.
Painful


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 15, 2010)

Bakunin said:


> Or, if you're a devotee of the 'Keith hackney Method' there's this, ahem, somewhat less ethical means of escape:



That must hurt like crazy


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## kained&able (Jan 15, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Gee...he made his situation worse by going to the ground.
> Painful



yeah wasn't the best was it, presume he was trying for a single/double leg take down and got caught off balance so had little choice in the matter.

My guess is he got cocky as he didn't think lashely could do the MMA stuff. Which is stupid considering his amateur wrestling background.

dave


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## futha (Jan 15, 2010)

I must say I am enjoying the video clips and posts on this thread. Nice one Bernie.

EDIT: just to add, I love Fedors aura, he always seems so calm yet fucking dangerous as well. Great stuff.


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## futha (Jan 15, 2010)

When I first started looking up clips I found this one, great example of sportsmanship.


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## kained&able (Jan 15, 2010)

futha said:


> When I first started looking up clips I found this one, great example of sportsmanship.



Fuck me!!! never seen someone convulse like that from such a short fight.

Yeah fair play to the man though he could have taken that last shot.


dave


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## Bakunin (Jan 15, 2010)

futha said:


> I must say I am enjoying the video clips and posts on this thread. Nice one Bernie.
> 
> EDIT: just to add, I love Fedors aura, he always seems so calm yet fucking dangerous as well. Great stuff.



I'm a fan of a certain Mirko 'Cro Cop' Filipovic myself. Although I don't see he has a need to hit people again after landing one of his infamous left high kicks.


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## futha (Jan 15, 2010)

kained&able said:


> Fuck me!!! never seen someone convulse like that from such a short fight.
> 
> Yeah fair play to the man though he could have taken that last shot.
> 
> dave



Yeah the convulsing isn't so nice. I looked up some other clips of Sami Berik (the guy who knocked him out), seems like a top bloke.



Bakunin said:


> I'm a fan of a certain Mirko 'Cro Cop' Filipovic myself. Although I don't see he has a need to hit people again after landing one of his infamous left high kicks.



Yeah I have been watching some of his clips too, that kick is awesome.


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## Bajie (Jan 15, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I love it, I love boxing as well, but this is more 'real' to me (as a stand-up martial artist myself *Wu-shu Kwan*)



I did Wu shu Kwan for a while, you lot are weird mother fuckers but have some seriously heavy sparring sessions.



Sami Berik is one of my favourite UK fighters as he has a interesting style and US fighter Jeff Monsoon, because he has cool tattoos


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## Bajie (Jan 15, 2010)

To be honest though, my favourite MMA fights are the first 5 UFC's, when people where getting their hair pulled and punched in the nads, not because of that (thought it is a bit funny), but because it was a real "style vs style" scenario and it really showed that most traditional martial arts dont stand up well if they dont cover all ranges.


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## Bakunin (Jan 15, 2010)

Bajie said:


> To be honest though, my favourite MMA fights are the first 5 UFC's, when people where getting their hair pulled and punched in the nads, not because of that (thought it is a bit funny), but because it was a real "style vs style" scenario and it really showed that most traditional martial arts dont stand up well if they dont cover all ranges.



Then you may appreciate this classic from the World Combat Championship. Shootfighter Bart Vale takes on Kapu Kuialua fighter Mike Bitonio in a bareknuckle, no holds barred barnstormer with plenty of striking and grappling.

Plus a small amount of blood, for the more vicarious among you.


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## Bajie (Jan 15, 2010)

Watching it at the moment, mullets FTW!

Edit: What the fuck? headbutt from guard? awesome.


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## Bajie (Jan 15, 2010)

Is this the only time a Ninja has won a MMA fight?


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## futha (Jan 15, 2010)

Bajie said:


> Is this the only time a Ninja has won a MMA fight?




What happens at 3.00 of that vid? Is he checking he is ok or something?


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## Bajie (Jan 15, 2010)

It does kind of look like that as does not look like he is about to hit him again in that moment.

Does anyone go to watch MMA fights? The only one I go to is http://www.ultimatewarriorchallenge.co.uk/ as it is close by. It is just how you would expect a MMA event to be in Southend-on-Sea, still quite good though.


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## kained&able (Jan 15, 2010)

have wwe sued yet?


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## futha (Jan 15, 2010)

Bajie said:


> It does kind of look like that as does not look like he is about to hit it again in that moment.
> 
> Does anyone go to watch MMA fights? The only one I go to is http://www.ultimatewarriorchallenge.co.uk/ as it is close by. It is just how you would expect a MMA event to be in Southend-on-Sea, still quite good though.



I haven't been to see it live. I dunno if I would enjoy it really. For a start I doubt you can actually see much from the audience can you? I guess its more about the atmosphere


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## Bajie (Jan 15, 2010)

That one that I go to is pretty small, so quite close to the cage. The atmosphere if it is a decent fight is good as the outcome is unknown, though given the amount of beer that is sold I am surprised if it would not be. Always slightly odd crowd combination of Essex geezers and their birds, sort of normal people and really big eastern europeans.


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## soulman (Jan 15, 2010)

This is all for middle class folk who can't box their way out of situations.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2010)

Ma walked in on me watching one of these links and accused me of watching gay porn


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## soulman (Jan 16, 2010)

This is all for middle class folk who can't box their way out of situations.


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## futha (Jan 16, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Ma walked in on me watching one of these links and accused me of watching gay porn


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 16, 2010)




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## Bakunin (Jan 16, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Boxing on the other hand has been optimised over the centuries as a spectacle as all the other stuff the renaissance era Masters of Defence did was dropped after they lost their monopoly on teaching fencing and James Figg got them into show business, because he quickly found that pugilism was more popular as a spectacle, then as it transformed from pugilism into boxing through the Broughton and Queensbury rules, the 'boring' wrestling stuff got dropped.



An excellent book on this part of boxing history is entitled 'Bare Fists' and is written by boxing writer Bob Mee:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bare-Fists-Bob-Mee/dp/0002189666


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 16, 2010)

The evolution of what you might call 'western martial arts' is a fascinating topic. Fencing, like pugilism, has changed dramatically over the centuries. 

Both have systematically eliminated wrestling moves, which previously were quite important. Wrestling is especially important to swordsmanship in a situation where armour might render swords less decisive but it's still highly applicable even in unarmoured bouts. Here's some footage of a couple of guys who are trying to work out the moves from various German medieval manuals of swordsmanship using a kind of cutlass or backsword called a 'messer', a type which would have been familiar to the Masters of Defence. People who know traditional Ju-Jitsu or Aikido will probably recognise some of the moves, at least as close relatives of techniques that they're familiar with. 

http://www.youtube.com/group/westernmartialarts#p/a/2/UHEs2m0IXAk

Probably the most famous medieval manual, that of Fiore dei Liberi starts with wrestling, then introduces daggers to the wrestling, then starts on swords proper and the wrestling techniques are integrated throughout. Most of the German fechtbuchs also place a heavy emphasis on wrestling as an adjunct to the sword. In this style of combat, punches are very much a secondary move. They're used, but in much the same way atemi (striking) is used in Ju-Jitsu, as a distraction technique to facilitate grappling. 

You can also make a pretty good case based on manuals and records of duels that grappling continued to be a factor during and after the Renaissance as rapier and duelling swords were introduced. The Elizabethan Masters of Defence certainly taught grappling in conjunction with the cut-and-thrust swords. One prominent Master of Defence, George Silver (who was furious that the Italian rapier masters at court wouldn't fight him to prove whose art was the best, because he wasn't "a gentleman") argues persuasively that grappling becomes even more important with rapiers, because anyone with sense isn't going to stand at distance having lethal holes poked in them, which he feels is all too likely irrespective of skill given the chancy nature of rapier fencing, if they can find a way to get close so the long rapier is ineffective and grapple. His story of one Austin Bagger's fight with rapier master Rocco is also instructive. 





> Then there is the case of "Austin Bagger, a very tall gentleman of his hands, not standing much upon his skill" who Silver describes as having with his sword and buckler fought the "Italian teacher of offense", Signior Rocco with his two hand sword. Silver relates how Bagger "presently closed with him, and struck up his heels, and cut him over the breech, and trod upon him, and most grievously hurt him under his feet."   Which means he charged forward, swept his legs out from under him, slashed his rear, and then stomped on him a few times while he was down.


 source and source above. 

Even fairly late accounts of smallsword duels frequently have the participants ending up struggling with each on the ground, although actually _teaching_ fencing students what to do about grappling became somewhat rarer over time and was virtually non-existent as far as I can tell by the time duelling died out. It seems though, as with pugilism, that wrestling gets completely eliminated from fencing only after it starts to evolve as a purely _sporting_ contest and most likely for a mixture of aesthetic and cultural reasons (i.e. sources quoted in the link above saying that grappling was considered 'base' and 'lower class', as well as the evidence we already have of it being a less aesthetically pleasing distraction from the 'noble art' of boxing and/or fencing) 

It's also interesting that boxing, particularly after the Marquess of Queensbury's reforms, was patronised by the upper classes and eventually became a more or less respectable big money sport, while British wrestling gradually declined and took on a twilight existence in the fairground booths and on the music hall stage, frequently being banned in part or whole, becoming the province of shady showmen whose ludicrously dramatised bouts were eventually discovered and marketed as low-brow entertainment by 'World of Sport' while the real art was only preserved in a few strictly working class gyms, like Billy Riley's 'Snake Pit' gym in Wigan and might have easily died out completely if it hadn't been re-discovered by some Japanese MMA guys who cared primarily about it being effective.

It's noticeable that as soon as you change the rules to favour 'realism' over 'purity' in a martial art or sport, then wrestling comes straight back in. _Effectiveness _was evidently no part of the case for eliminating it from martial sports.


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## where to (Jan 16, 2010)

not a fan of MMA but this is pretty funny:


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 16, 2010)

That's a bit of a joke fight though, like the Hong Man Choi one. 

The one really big guy who actually proved to be a challenge was Mark Hunt.


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## Bakunin (Jan 16, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> It's noticeable that as soon as you change the rules to favour 'realism' over 'purity' in a martial art or sport, then wrestling comes straight back in. _Effectiveness _was evidently no part of the case for eliminating it from martial sports.



I notice that now, looking back on the incredibly realistic and frequently utterly impure hand to hand techniques my grandfather taught me (he was a retired sergeant major in the Royal Marines, so you can probably guess that his methods didn't come with a sporting aspect or any sense of 'fair play'), that there's long been a difference between purists and realists..

The martial arts haven't just been watered down in terms of the 'purists vs realists' debate either. In terms of providing combat as a form of entertainment (that could cover fighting in films and TV, or on stage, or even pro wrestling really) the grim and ugly reality of what I'd call 'proper' martial arts techniques (ones that actually work in a real fight) is usually totally removed in favour of often utterly ineffective techniques that just happen to look better for those watching. The depiction of bareknuckle fights in film, for example, varies from the 'chop socky' stuff like Bruce Lee (although Lee himself was an arch realist when it came to genuine fighting methods) to the rather more realistic fight scene at the end of the first 'Lethal Weapon' film (where Gary Busey and Mel Gibson have a fight scene that looks pretty realistic insofar as it goes)

Also, even the 'no holds barred' events such as the UFC, which has been described more than once as 'human cockfighting', are not only not as extreme as they originally were, but they have also taken on a lot of things from boxing such as gloves (albeit light ones), time limits, weight divisions and rounds, and an increasingly long list of banned techniques which has itself given rise to another debate between the UFC purists (who preferred the event in its early incarnation) and UFC realists (who seem to be arguing that the UFC couldn't continue to exist as it had started out).


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 16, 2010)

To my mind MMA is a lot more representative of a "real" fight than boxing for a given definition of "real", but still artificial in some ways. Not just the ones you mentioned. I'd argue for example that the use of ground-fighting in MMA, while it lets a grappler beat a boxer who hasn't cross-trained, is done in MMA in a way that's unrealistic with reference to self-defence, because it's extremely unwise to commit that far into ground fighting when there's a good possibility his mate is going to suddenly appear and start kicking you in the head and even he doesn't have mates, if you get into BJJ type grappling you may risk getting severely bitten. 

You can see this represented in the way that BJJ (which is all about 'match fights' albeit ones with fairly open rules) might try to "finish" someone who you'd just put on the ground without putting them out of the fight vs the way some Menji-era 'police' Ju-Jitsu ryu would do essentially the same technique. BJJ might do let's say a strangle from a back mount, where as Tenshin Shinyo JJ might do the same technique from one knee on (and a hard karate style might do a stomp or knee drop) to facilitate a fast response to unexpected guests at the price of a less secure tactical position against the guy on the ground. Something like BJJ is as specialised for the ground fight as boxing is for the mid-range standup fight. MMA makes no distinction based on environmental factors as to which of those places you'd want to fight in though, where self-defence necessarily has to make such distinctions because sensitivity to the environment is required (concrete or carpet? surprise attack, 'square go' or 'pile on'? weapons or not?)

The arguments in favour of boxing for self-defence, soulman's silliness above notwithstanding are threefold in my mind. 1) boxing is supreme in the range that's most important in the typical 'you looked at my pint funny' situations where people typically get in fights, so if you're going to learn just one art, it's a very good option (although Muay Thai which also covers kicks and clinch fighting while being almost as good at striking is a very valid choice too) 2) if it works, i.e. if you KO your assailant or at least buzz him so hard he's disoriented enough for you to flee, it works without you getting dragged to the ground where his mates can jump on your head and 3) for exactly the same reasons of cultural conditioning around concepts of sportsmanship that causes MMA to provoke revulsion, a stiff left hook to the jaw is probably going to be easier to defend in court as 'proportionate' than an almost functionally identical Thai-style elbow strike, still less smashing their knee with a side-kick or one of the 'banned' Judo moves, breaking their arms or dumping them on the floor and knee-dropping their head and spleen or breaking their leg with a step-over. 

The limitation of boxing for self-defence is that a competent grappler, although he might have to eat a few punches to do so, should be able to cover up enough to mitigate the worst of the damage and charge in and take the boxer to the ground and hence out of his element and a good kicker has an excellent chance of smashing his leading knee up from range if he's got room to work in. So while boxing is what I'd call 'ideal' self-defence, insofar as it's optimised for the fight you'd actually _want_ to be fighting, being able to kick and grapple a) gives you options if your attacker is skilled at boxing and b) gives you the tools to cope if you end up in a clinch or on the ground despite really preferring not to be there. MMA does not effectively represent that _preference_ for not being on the ground where his mates can kick you and as a result over-commits to ground-fighting when viewed as practice for self-defence, but I think that by including grappling and kicking it still offers a more realistic set of tools for self-defence than pure boxing.

To my mind the limitations on dangerous techniques in MMA are actually an advantage, for the same reason that limitations on dangerous techniques give Judo an advantage over traditional Ju-Jitsu or god help us mainstream Aikido as a practical self-defence system. It allows for 'randori' style free practice, which means that you can practice the majority of your techniques against partners who are being more or less uncooperative. Which means they might actually _work_ when you need them to, unlike say Aikido (unless you're Terry Ezra or Dave Rubens). You can still do kata or forms to practice the ones that are too dangerous for free practice, but frankly, if they're too horrific for free practice then you probably don't want to be using them anyplace you might have to defend their use in court, so practice your eyeball gouging in kata and cautious bunkai drills by all means, but like any weapons practice that your chosen martial art might include, save it for when the zombie hordes attack or for when the revolution comes. 

For practical self-defence I think the best plan is to spend the majority of your effort and time practising Boxing/Muay Thai/kickboxing (or any Karate or Kung-Fu style that involves full-contact sparring) for the mid-range where most fights happen (some sort of kicking training is advisable so you can also do long-range, which is another limitation of Boxing) and to supplement it with Muay Thai/Judo/Greco-Roman wrestling for the clinch and Judo/BJJ/submission wrestling for the ground, with a good proportion of free practice against uncooperative partners, plus bag and pad work, endurance and strength training. Which by a strange coincidence is pretty much what MMA training consists of. 

If you want to do traditional arts and cover as much of this stuff as possible, then I'd say Muay Thai (or a hard style of Karate like Kyokushinkai or Goju) plus Judo (or some sort of JJ that does randori) would be the best compromise.


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## Bakunin (Jan 16, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> To my mind MMA is a lot more representative of a "real" fight than boxing, but still artificial in some ways. Not just the ones you mentioned. I'd argue for example that the use of ground-fighting in MMA is unrealistic with reference to self-defence, because it's extremely unwise to commit that far into ground fighting when there's a good possibility his mate is going to suddenly appear and start kicking lumps off you.
> 
> You can see this represented in the way that BJJ (which is all about 'match fights' albeit ones with fairly open rules) deals with someone on the ground vs the way some Menji-era 'police' Ju-Jitsu ryu would do essentially the same technique. BJJ would do it from a full mount, where as Tenshin Shinyo JJ might do it from one knee on, to facilitate a fast response to unexpected guests at the price of a less secure tactical position against the guy on the ground.



Very true. It's a real vulnerability of some martial arts folk in that, while they might be thinking 'This fat, podgy bar brawlers hasn't got my fitness or skills' the martial artist might not have six mates with pool cues hastily gathering around to jump in on their behalf.

My grandfather, for instance, learned the sort of methods taught by Fairbairn and Sykes, which would seem pretty awful to anyone with a sense of sport or fair play, but they worked and that's the holy writ of unarmed combat training. If it works, do it, and anything goes.

Regarding modern martial arts training itself, that has also been considerably watered down in many ways as nowadays it's something few people devote their lives to. The majority of people learning martial arts nowadays, I'd argue, do so for fitness or as a hobby or for sporting competition, whereas many of the old-school martial arts were originally designed for battlefield use in time of war. Granted, that's probably a good and necessary thing, but the use of many martial arts as they were originally intended, with the element of full-blooded realism, is, I feel, something that has been diluted nonetheless.

Speaking of Fairbairn and Sykes, here's an online version of Fairbairn's famous book on hand to hand fighting called 'get Tough', which was published in 1942:

http://www.tsroadmap.com/early/tough.pdf


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 16, 2010)

Thing about people who pick fights in pubs and clubs as a hobby though, is that whatever their apparent physical condition, they've probably had a lot of practice at it. In particular, they're very likely to use surprise attacks and very possibly improvised weapons that will offset any amount of training if you don't see them coming. MMA type training gives you excellent tools, but there's also the question of knowing when to start using them and when to bullshit your way out of there or simply run like fuck with no regard for how much you get laughed at for doing so.


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## Bakunin (Jan 16, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Thing about people who pick fights in pubs and clubs as a hobby though, is that whatever their apparent physical condition, they've probably had a lot of practice at it. In particular, they're very likely to use surprise attacks and very possibly improvised weapons that will offset any amount of training if you don't see them coming. MMA type training gives you excellent tools, but there's also the question of knowing when to start using them and when to bullshit your way out of there or simply run like fuck with no regard for how much you get laughed at for doing so.



Yep.

If it's possible to avoid a fight then that's certainly the best way to go. No sense at all in starting something if there's need, even if eating humble pie grates a bit it's a lot better than a needless brawl over next to nothing.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 17, 2010)

Oh yeah forgot about this one, Fedor vs 'Ironhead' Fujita. 

He gets buzzed badly by a massive shot to the temple.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 17, 2010)

Fedor vs world Judo champion Ogawa.



... next


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 17, 2010)

Fedor vs old school champ Gary Goodridge.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 17, 2010)

Fedor vs former champ, Boxer/kickboxer/Sombo guy Arlovski


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 17, 2010)

Fedor vs UFC former champ Tim Sylvia.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 17, 2010)

Another interesting dimension to MMA is that it's starting to feed back in interesting ways into traditional martial arts. 

Patrick McCarthy is a respected scholar of Karate kata or forms. What he's been up to recently though is kind of 'restoring' Karate (which has also undergone an evolution away from practicality and towards sport much like fencing and boxing as described above) by bringing in MMA style cross training to sort of meet the kata applications in the middle. Rather than accepting the unrealistic bunkai (interpretations of kata) that normally get taught, he's working on the premise (if I understand his stuff right) that maximising the realism of the attacks which the kata is defending against (which in turn means making them very close to what works in MMA, to the extent that they're allowed, obviously some realistic attacks aren't) is an excellent guide to getting at realistic kata interpretations and that what by an odd coincidence are proven MMA training methods, two-man drills, pad and bag work etc, can be usefully adapted. I'm not sure how much MMA has _directly _influenced his stuff, I know he was supporting himself by fighting in some early Japanese professional MMA competitions (shoot boxing and so on) back in the 80's, but he also talks about going back to koryu roots in ju-jitsu and various sort of kung-fu, nonetheless the synthetic approach and the training methods are very similar and the results also have a fair degree of correlation. 

Have a look at some of these drills to see what that might mean in practice. Koryu Uchinadi


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## Structaural (Jan 17, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Then there was an inconclusive rematch between Fedor and Nog after those matches with the yank 'roid boys, and Nog and Crocop and the yank 'roid boys fought a bit amongst each other, but then Fedor and Nog had a proper fight to unify the title. This time Nog had trained to fight standup with the idea of taking Fedor into *his* guard if he could take him down, and Fedor has a totally different plan from the last time, which makes this a little bit interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Crocop was outstanding in Pride (his left hook was almost as good as his left kick), he seems to be a shadow of his former self since joining UFC. I guess his age and lack of grappling is a problem now... I was going to put some links up but I'll leave that to you Bernie. I just watched the Fedor Crocop fight - man, what a long battle....


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## Structaural (Jan 17, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> That's a bit of a joke fight though, like the Hong Man Choi one.
> 
> The one really big guy who actually proved to be a challenge was Mark Hunt.




Fedor's had his pain glands removed or something...


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 18, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> The evolution of what you might call 'western martial arts' is a fascinating topic. Fencing, like pugilism, has changed dramatically over the centuries.
> 
> Both have systematically eliminated wrestling moves, which previously were quite important. Wrestling is especially important to swordsmanship in a situation where armour might render swords less decisive but it's still highly applicable even in unarmoured bouts. Here's some footage of a couple of guys who are trying to work out the moves from various German medieval manuals of swordsmanship using a kind of cutlass or backsword called a 'messer', a type which would have been familiar to the Masters of Defence. People who know traditional Ju-Jitsu or Aikido will probably recognise some of the moves, at least as close relatives of techniques that they're familiar with.
> 
> ...



That's a good read.
Fascinating stuff!!!!

I didn't realise that western swords play had such traps!


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## futha (Jan 18, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> or simply run like fuck with no regard for how much you get laughed at for doing so.



only problem with this is that if your with your girlfriend/mum/mate or whatever you cant really just leave them behind. 'anyway love thanks for dinner and everything but as its kicking off in here I'm doing one, *pegs it'


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## where to (Jan 18, 2010)

Bakunin said:


> Fairbairn's famous book on hand to hand fighting called 'get Tough',


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## futha (Jan 18, 2010)

had my first bjj class tonight (been doing stand up MMA for 2 months). bloody hell it was tough  think I did alright though. the mental and physical strength required is insane though! lots of respect for MMA fighters.


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## Bakunin (Jan 18, 2010)

where to said:


>



Yep, the methods shown are, um, a tad aggressive for ordinary self-defence usage. I don't think a magistrate would really give their blessing if I ever used them in anger.


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## futha (Jan 18, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Oh yeah forgot about this one, Fedor vs 'Ironhead' Fujita.
> 
> He gets buzzed badly by a massive shot to the temple.




Im loving the clips Bernie  that was a biiiggg shot that him him there wasn't it!


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 19, 2010)

futha said:


> had my first bjj class tonight (been doing stand up MMA for 2 months). bloody hell it was tough  think I did alright though. the mental and physical strength required is insane though! lots of respect for MMA fighters.



Where do you train and how did you do?

I love BJJ but the limitations is that in a 'real' fight, the ground is the last resort. I'd hate to be on the ground (not to mention that a half-guard game is not very ideal).

I've been teaching a real painful take down. 

A kimura followed by http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm
Then knee on belly.

Wrist/arm break easily.


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## futha (Jan 19, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Where do you train and how did you do?
> 
> I love BJJ but the limitations is that in a 'real' fight, the ground is the last resort. I'd hate to be on the ground (not to mention that a half-guard game is not very ideal).
> 
> ...



It was in Manchester. I did alright I think thanks  Aching today though! Need to get myself a Gi. We were doing half guard last night, I know relatively little about BJJ so still getting used to the terms! Yeah I am doing stand up mainly but its good to compliment it with some ground work. Its amazing how much more I can appreciate grappling now I have given it a go. The mental and physical strength is very impressive


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 19, 2010)

futha said:


> It was in Manchester. I did alright I think thanks  Aching today though! Need to get myself a Gi. We were doing half guard last night, I know relatively little about BJJ so still getting used to the terms! Yeah I am doing stand up mainly but its good to compliment it with some ground work. Its amazing how much more I can appreciate grappling now I have given it a go. The mental and physical strength is very impressive



What gi are you gonna get/how much you gonna spend?

Is your school ran by a black belt?

I asked cos a few of my training buddies have been to Checkmate.


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## futha (Jan 19, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> What gi are you gonna get/how much you gonna spend?
> 
> Is your school ran by a black belt?
> 
> I asked cos a few of my training buddies have been to Checkmate.



I dont know actually (re the Gi), probably just get one from the gym, I dont know much about these things what is a decent price? Its an MMA gym, the website is a bit sparse but here it is anyway.

http://www.sbgukproteam.com/


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## Structaural (Jan 21, 2010)




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## Bakunin (Jan 21, 2010)

Structaural said:


>


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## rover07 (Jan 21, 2010)

Why is it that ALL extreme martial arts fighting ends up with them rolling round on the floor


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## futha (Jan 21, 2010)

rover07 said:


> Why is it that ALL extreme martial arts fighting ends up with them rolling round on the floor



In other kinds of fighting sports they end up 'hugging' a lot dont they. In MMA the ref doesn't brake it up so the next step is for it to go to ground. It is an effective way of winning the match. Bernie will probably know the stats but it seems a lot of MMA fights end in a submissions. Plus if your against someone who is a great striker it makes sense to take them to ground and reduce their efficacy.


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 21, 2010)

futha said:


> I dont know actually (re the Gi), probably just get one from the gym, I dont know much about these things what is a decent price? Its an MMA gym, the website is a bit sparse but here it is anyway.
> 
> http://www.sbgukproteam.com/



Most wrestling/BJJ places will have a contact with a particular make. The most popular of these are Keiko Raca and Vulkan Gis. They're both good makes but if given the choice the Keiko gold weave gi is the better of the two. 

The average price for a gi is £80-£100.
The better the make, the longer it lasts (approx 10 years).

As you're a white belt, get a white gi. 

Oh, I noticed that your gym does Freestyle Wrestling!!! That will compliment your BJJ and stand-up game well! I love freestyle stuff - I love single leg take-downs and arm-drags.

So much to learn...makes life and physical awareness much more interesting...


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## Fruitloop (Jan 21, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Where do you train and how did you do?
> 
> I love BJJ but the limitations is that in a 'real' fight, the ground is the last resort. I'd hate to be on the ground (not to mention that a half-guard game is not very ideal).
> 
> ...



Which way are you applying the kimura as a preparation for osoto-gari?


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 21, 2010)

Fruitloop said:


> Which way are you applying the kimura as a preparation for osoto-gari?



Wrist - left hand on their right wrist. 
I'm trapping their wrist/elbow - not their shoulder as in the conventional kimura - and stepping to the outside to perform the osoto-gari.
I know that I'm exposing my right side in doing so - but it's possible if in 2 flowing movements.

I came across the idea when my ex-BJJ instructor was simply walking through Mile End. He saw two police officers trying to disarm a nutter holding a bottle (both failed miserably), so he butted in and applied the conventional standing kimura. The guy screamed for mercy pretty much immediately. So thinking about that situation I came up with this move. Mind you, if an osoto-gari was done on concrete, you have to be careful that your opponent doesn't smash his head on the ground.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 21, 2010)

rover07 said:


> Why is it that ALL extreme martial arts fighting ends up with them rolling round on the floor



Because that's what happens if a) he doesn't have mates who might join in and b) the rules prohibit you from biting big lumps out of people while rolling on the ground. It's all about environment (including rules) change the environment and you get something different. Restrict the rules to remove all wrestling and kicks and break up clinches, you get boxing. Allow kicks and clinches again, you get Muay Thai or something much like it. Add swords, armour and possibility of him having some mates and you get trad Ju-Jitsu or something along those lines.


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## Caecilian (Jan 22, 2010)

Okay...

So I tried watching some of the fights that people posted links to. I really did my best to get into them. But in the end I have to agree with Mrs Gunther- they look like violent gay sex to me too.

So why is this? I know fuck-all about wrestling, but then I know very little about boxing or kung fu, and I certainly enjoy watching _those_ martial arts- especially boxing. 

Personally, I think it has something to do with aesthetics. Puch and/or kick- type martial arts seem to have a lot in common with dancing. I'd suggest that if, as Bernie says, martial arts tend to move _away_ from wrestling as they become less practically oriented, then what they're moving _towards_ is dance. 

IMO Boxing is an art as well as a sport. Its violent ballet. Its bloody and its beautiful. Whereas MMA, for all of the undoubted skill that it requires, is just bloody.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 22, 2010)

We could try an evolutionary perspective on this 

Selection in a competitive form of martial arts is about the ability of a given set of moves and tactics that you can train in, to win under the rules, but the rule set responds to external pressures. The aesthetic qualities of the sport produced by the rules of boxing are reinforced by economic factors. If it wasn't great to watch, it wouldn't make money. No doubt a bunch of happy accidents were involved, but now that it does make money, they certainly aren't going to allow wrestling back in. 

Fencing, during a fairly similar evolution, has ended up as an incomprehensible game of electronic tag. It's never caught on as a spectator sport, so those qualities have never been reinforced. 

MMA has caught on as a spectator sport, but it's recent and still evolving fast. My guess is that most fans actually like the gore and barely understand the technical stuff. If I had to guess as to its evolutionary direction, I'd say that UFC is becoming dominant so it'll turn into a bloodier form of professional wrestling.


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## Caecilian (Jan 22, 2010)

So while the evolutionary fitness function of boxing would be something like 'is exciting and pleasing to watch', the fitness function for MMA would be something like 'is entertainingly bloody'. Makes sense.

Fencing is possibly a trickier case. I'd guess that in the absence of external (i.e. economic) pressures, its evolution would be more of a random walk. Don't know much about it, though.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 22, 2010)

Caecilian said:


> So while the evolutionary fitness function of boxing would be something like 'is exciting and pleasing to watch', the fitness function for MMA would be something like 'is entertainingly bloody'. Makes sense.
> 
> Fencing is possibly a trickier case. I'd guess that in the absence of external (i.e. economic) pressures, its evolution would be more of a random walk. Don't know much about it, though.



I'd say there are two levels. For a given rule-set, the fitness function is about what wins. So people evolve tactics and training methods etc. There's also a fitness function for rule-sets though, certainly once money becomes involved. 

Fencing, since it completely stopped being used for duels in the early 20th century, has had its rule set defined by Olympic committees and the manufacturers of electronic scoring devices. It's never made significant money, so it doesn't have the same constraints on its rule set as boxing. Muay Thai on the other hand has had economic pressures and despite having a different rule-set, allowing clinch-fighting, kicks and elbows etc, continues to be both entertaining and effective. See e.g. 
For non-competitive martial arts, if they're the sort that actually get used, then the environment that they get used in dictates fitness. Oddly, something like Goju-Ryu Karate does quite badly in MMA on the whole, but works pretty well for say nightclub doormen in Birkenhead. What you might say is that the fitness function defined by anti-Manchu revolutionary violence and disarmed Okinawan resistance to Japanese occupation, happens to also fit pretty well the environment of sorting out violent nutters in Merseyside nightclubs. 

If they're the sort of martial art that almost never gets used, then the fitness function is all about convincing people to train, perhaps via the promise of magic chi powers, and also perhaps the plausibility of their efforts at explaining away incidents of the instructor getting stomped by teenage muggers or inability to kill hamsters by staring at them. (cf 'Men who Stare at Goats' etc)


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## Caecilian (Jan 22, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I'd say there are two levels. For a given rule-set, the fitness function is about what wins. So people evolve tactics and training methods etc. There's also a fitness function for rule-sets though, certainly once money becomes involved.
> 
> For non-competitive martial arts, if they're the sort that actually get used, then the environment that they get used in dictates fitness. Oddly, something like Goju-Ryu Karate does quite badly in MMA on the whole, but works pretty well for say nightclub doormen in Birkenhead. What you might say is that the fitness function defined by anti-Manchu revolutionary violence and disarmed Okinawan resistance to Japanese occupation, happen to also fit pretty well the environment of sorting out violent nutters in Merseyside nightclubs.
> 
> If they're the sort of martial art that almost never gets used, then the fitness function is all about convincing people to train, perhaps via the promise of magic chi powers, and perhaps the plausibility of their efforts at explaining away incidents of the instructor getting stomped by teenage muggers. (cf 'Men who Stare at Goats' etc)



Okay, so I think that there are 3 levels of selection:

1. Selection for techniques within a given rule set. Here the fitness function is essentially 'winning' within the environment specified by the rules set (you've already explained the environment stuff extremely well).

2. Selection for rules. There is a basic split 3-way here between practical martial arts, martial arts as disciplines and martial arts as entertainment. Practical martial arts will select rules that allow them to become more effective, so the fitness function for the rules of traditional bujutsu might be 'learns to kill opponents more effectively'. But at some historical point(s), gunpowder being an obvious one, martial arts become more formalized and stylized. Effectiveness is still important, but some kind of 'promotes self-discipline' and 'looks good' functions begin to effect the evolution of the rules. And finally, beginning with nineteenth-century boxing, rules are selected for their entertainment value, in at least some cases.

3. Selection for sets of rules. Individuals and groups select sets of rules because they accord with their purposes. Thus fencing doesn't get selected by sports promoters (incomprehensible and dull), while Gojo-Ryu does get selected by scouse bouncers (a really effective way of beating up unpleasant drunks). 

The complex case appears to be 2- selection of rules. 1 is interesting but straightforward. 3 seems boring by comparison.


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## jannerboyuk (Jan 22, 2010)

ESPN is free on freeview etc this weekend and are showing a lot of MMAA stuff which im going to watch a bit of at least.
Anyway off topic for a moment on your realism versus external pressure stuff an interestng example was the recruiting of wrestling coaches in rugby league. The point was in the tackle toget your opponent to the floor in a way you wanted, slowed him down and ideally on his back and get a hold that makes it painfull to struggle in order to get up quickly to play the ball. To add to the pain if you got a hold while your opponent was still on his feet two other players were allowed to come in and smash him. It was called a chicken wing tackle because of the way the arm was held in a way to make it vulnerable to the seond tackler. Owch, slightly unfair. The coaches just wanted to gain an advantage of course but there was a big backlash from the public and its being phased out. The public always seem to want to see a clean hit, although in the UK the Huddersfield Giants still have a wrestling coach working for them.
I'm surprised that rugby union hasnt taken this route as it seems a better match in terms of the ruck.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 22, 2010)

Yep, I agree. 2. is the interesting case. You can see it in Menji era Ju-Jitsu. You get some ryuha which try to preserve battlefield stuff. Tenshin Shoden Katori being the obvious example (remember that BBC 'Way of the Warrior' video?) while others mutate and merge to say service the evolutionary niche of 'police' Ju-Jitsu. A good example being say Totsuka-ha Yoshin-ryu Those arts were dying though, due to being marginalised as something gangsters and cops who fought gangsters did and which polite Menji-era society tried to forget about. 

Along came Jigoro Kano though, and with his position in the ministry of education, carved out a whole new niche using concepts imported from the West.


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## The Boy (Jan 22, 2010)

jannerboyuk said:


> I'm surprised that rugby union hasnt taken this route as it seems a better match in terms of the ruck.



I remember reading about either the Spanish or Portuguese union squad who underwent some judo training.  Didn't read anything after that so no idea if it was effective.


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 22, 2010)

A few rugby league players use to train in wrestling at London Bridge. 
They were good!!


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## jannerboyuk (Jan 22, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> A few rugby league players use to train in wrestling at London Bridge.
> They were good!!



There was a piece on the crusaders rl new season on bbc2 wales tonight and it had clips of the players all practising throws on heavy dummys! Looked very strange.


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 23, 2010)

Good fight from between Matt Riddle and Nick Osipczak.

Wasn't televised.

I've seen Nick spar in my classes. He's a tremendous striker (Sanshou kung fu) and grappler (grecco, freestyle and BJJ)
Good underrated fight.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Matt_Riddle_vs_Nick_Osipczak_UFC_105?vid=10007851


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 24, 2010)

Sort of picking at the scab of people's aversion to wrestling again. I wondered how viewers might react to some absolutely perfect Judo technique. What you're seeing in these clips is mostly randori, free practice with resistance, but (in this company) the constraint of having to do everything with the best technique you can rather than brute-forcing things that aren't exactly right as you might want to try to do in competition. 

Here's a lovely old clip, it's taken from an hour long movie I also have a link for, of Mifune showing some young dan grades just how much good technique can make up for age and a slight build (if you're a 10th dan anyhow) Check out the Sumi Otoshi he finishes the first bout with. Most people have to brute-force that throw to get it to work at all, it's horribly difficult and if it works at all usually results in dragging your opponent to the floor in a messy heap, but he makes it work like it was black magic by unbalancing his opponent via exquisite body chess and judging his moment and angle to absolute perfection. 

I had a rather similar experience doing a few minutes of randori with the very elderly Otani (8th dan) when I was a teenager, around the time I was competing at national level (quarter finals was my best, so not great at it, but I was about 150% of his weight, pretty strong and reasonably skilled). I found it impossible to throw him although he looked as though he'd blow away if I'd farted, he just sort of slid out of the way no matter what I tried, then my attention wandered and *wham*, I was flying. Much like the big guy in the first bout (the comments suggest it's world champ Anton Geesink) finds with Mifune. 



Here's another, this has Kano, the guy who invented Judo and his senior student Yamashita (the guy who taught Teddy Roosevelt and used to chuck him around the White House). He first does a 'beginner' throw, then he's doing Mizu Guruma, a technique from a 5th dan kata that I'm guessing will make no sense at all to most people (It makes more sense perhaps if you know that it's a Kito-Ryu Ju-Jitsu technique originally meant to be done wearing a suit of armour). Then it has Kimura, Judo's greatest ever competition fighter, kind of their Muhammed Ali, showing some competition Judo stuff. I'm thinking this must have been just before he died based on the chemotherapy hair-style and he's not exactly on top form alas although his technique is flawless and still obviously brutally powerful. Then we get some more absolutely beautiful stuff from Mifune.


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## Caecilian (Jan 24, 2010)

Well, I wasn't really expecting to enjoy these, but I did. 

Mifune is wonderful to watch. So elegant, so subtle, so unpredictable. I don't really have a clue what he's doing, but I like it. Whats especially cool is what you call 'body chess'- he manages to be in exactly the right position at the right time. Clearly, he's anticipating his opponent's moves with a great deal of precision.

So thanks for the links!


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## futha (Jan 25, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Matt_Riddle_vs_Nick_Osipczak_UFC_105?vid=10007851



Thanks for that, some of the moves in that I have been learning myself. It is very satisfying watching it and actually knowing what is going on


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 25, 2010)

Glad you like them 

Thing is, competition Judo is much messier than randori. 

Kimura as you could probably tell even from that footage of him in his 60's, was a brute-force monster in his prime, albeit one with great technique. He was beaten by the superior technique of his nemesis Abbe (my sensei's sensei) in the 5th dan tournament in 1935, in much the same way Mifune makes those big guys look silly. 

That caused him to push his training up a gear though, and he famously beat the snot of out Abbe a few months later in randori with the whole Kodokan watching, before going on to accumulate perhaps the most impressive history of victories in Judo. He went on to defeat Helio Gracie, the top fighter of original Brazilian Ju-Jitsu and died when he attempted to do his regular 1000 morning press-ups the day after having a cancerous lung removed. 

Here's an excerpt from his autobiography, it's fairly entertaining. (You'll note he somehow fails to mention Kenshiro Abbe)



> I was standing at the end of a line of 60 or 70 people waiting for a train at the Mukae-Machi station (near Kumamoto city, Kumamoto prefecture, Japan), and was reading a paperback. Suddenly, 4 MP men passed through the line nearby me forcibly. When I turned my eyes to them, I found them shouting, "Jap, Jap" repeatedly. One of them grabbed the Japanese man at the front of the line by the collar, pulled the Japanese man toward him. He then made a ring with the pointing finger and the thumb, and struck the nose of the Japanese man with the flipped pointing finger with full force. The man covered his nose with his hands, and stooped down from the pain. The MP men did this to everyone on the line one by one including women. When someone did not stoop down, they delivered another strike. My turn was approaching. While I was wondering about what to do, my turn came. One of the MP men extended his arm trying to grab my lapel. I struck his hand with full force. Their facial expression changed suddenly. The four MP men surrounded me and took me to the middle of Nagaroku Bridge nearby the station. This was not an ordinary fight to me. I had to win this fight to defend the honor of judo. One of them suddenly threw a right straight at my face. I blocked the punch with my left arm, and kicked him in the groin with full force. He crumbled on the spot. When I turned back my head, another huge MP extended his arms and attacked me trying to grab me from behind. I then hit his right arm hard with knife hand, and then threw him into the river by Seoi-nage. The other two were watching this scene in amazement, but charged at me one by one. I delivered a head butt into the face of the third man. He was knocked out. I disposed of the last man by squeezing his balls with full force. Ever since I was in junior high, I have been called Master Groin Squeezer, and had absolute confidence in this technique.



http://judoinfo.com/kimura2.htm


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## Biglittlefish (Jan 25, 2010)

Watching that made my day.


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 25, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I was standing at the end of a line of 60 or 70 people waiting or a train at the Mukae-Machi station (near Kumamoto city, Kumamoto prefecture, Japan), and was reading a paperback. Suddenly, 4 MP men passed through the line nearby me forcibly. When I turned my eyes to them, I found them shouting, "Jap, Jap" repeatedly. One of them grabbed the Japanese man at the front of the line by the collar, pulled the Japanese man toward him. He then made a ring with the pointing finger and the thumb, and struck the nose of the Japanese man with the flipped pointing finger with full force. The man covered his nose with his hands, and stooped down from the pain. The MP men did this to everyone on the line one by one including women. When someone did not stoop down, they delivered another strike. My turn was approaching. While I was wondering about what to do, my turn came. One of the MP men extended his arm trying to grab my lapel. I struck his hand with full force. Their facial expression changed suddenly. The four MP men surrounded me and took me to the middle of Nagaroku Bridge nearby the station. This was not an ordinary fight to me. I had to win this fight to defend the honor of judo. One of them suddenly threw a right straight at my face. I blocked the punch with my left arm, and kicked him in the groin with full force. He crumbled on the spot. When I turned back my head, another huge MP extended his arms and attacked me trying to grab me from behind. I then hit his right arm hard with knife hand, and then threw him into the river by Seoi-nage. The other two were watching this scene in amazement, but charged at me one by one. I delivered a head butt into the face of the third man. He was knocked out. I disposed of the last man by squeezing his balls with full force. Ever since I was in junior high, I have been called Master Groin Squeezer, and had absolute confidence in this technique.



Ha Ha!!!


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 25, 2010)

I always thought old-pre-Olympic Judo to hold more similarity with Brazilian Ju Jitsu. I roll with black belt Judo players and find that as a system it has many similarities with freestyle wrestling. I've been pinned by a black belt Judo player many times, and fuck, it's impossible to get 'em off!! They use the lapel, arm-bars, the cross-chokes - all these moves are evident in BJJ.

I love watching those old videos of Judo heroes.


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 25, 2010)

jannerboyuk said:


> There was a piece on the crusaders rl new season on bbc2 wales tonight and it had clips of the players all practising throws on heavy dummys! Looked very strange.



It makes sense. I mean isn't that what a tackle is all about? Taking someone down? Wished I was taught wrestling at school - think I'd had less missed tackles and been a better flanker  

I'm so jealous of some schools. There's one in Tooting Bec that has a massive grappling facility (Judo) and another in Cardiff that has a padded area the size of a dance hall!! Kids these days...

Bit off the subject. Just that I came across two women grappling. Pretty good! [


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 25, 2010)

Maeda, the guy who taught the Brazilians, was one of the second generation Kodokan guys. He left Japan in 1903 if I recall right (details in an earlier post) and spent the next couple of decades taking challenge fights around the world with boxers and wrestlers. Hence the Judo he taught the BJJ guys was still pretty close to Ju-Jitsu (many of the first generation Kodokan guys were Ju-Jitsu students or even masters originally) plus a mixture of tricks he'd picked up during his travels. 

Here are the rules the first-generation Kodokan guys used for contests. 



> 1. Each contestant shall wear coat and belt.
> 
> 2. A contestant shall be deemed to have been defeated when his two shoulders and hips shall have touched the floor, provided that said contestant shall have reached this position on the floor through having been thrown down.
> 
> ...


 http://judoinfo.com/rules.htm

You'll see that they *don't* favour groundwork, but seem (see the '2 seconds' provision in rule #3 and rule #4 which seems to allow hand strikes even in friendly bouts) intended to simulate a more realistic stand-up oriented fight (see my previous posts about what 'realistic' means in the context of MMA etc) So my guess is that while the BJJ ground game is clearly derived from early Judo, the emphasis on the ground game may have arisen separately from the similar emphasis that arose in Japanese University (or Kosen) Judo during the period between the wars. I'm guessing though that it arose for the same reasons. Once you remove the early rules intended to keep the fighters on their feet to simulate 'street' combat, rules I'd see as analogous to the 'right of way' concept in Fencing (originally intended to prevent suicidal techniques from scoring points), you inevitably end up with a lot of ground fighting.


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks for that Bernie - I find the evolution of martial arts interesting. As for what constitutes realism, it all depends on the values one measures fighting on. But what I don't like is how many BJJ players seem to suggest that their art is the most realistic. I'm sure you heard it before, that "90% of fights end up on the ground." That's only as true as you and your opponent, I mean, what if you come across an excellent puncher who stands his ground? Or a person who likes to bite? I think all that hype regarding ground fighting derived from the Gracies during the late 80s - when they were promoting their arts in Japan and North America.

But yes, I too believe BJJ derived from Judo. 
BJJ has more in common with Judo than Jujitsu. Tbh, I don't even know why it's even called Jujitsu, as Jujitsu is such a static art form and does not carry the flow and motion of BJJ.

(oh Bernie - I see you mentioned the biting aspect in thread 64. agreed)


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## Fruitloop (Jan 25, 2010)

That's always puzzled me a bit, 'cos although I'm no expert in the history of it, I've done a fair bit of Juijitsu and could never see the resemblance.


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## Almor (Jan 25, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> I'm sure you heard it before, that "90% of fights end up on the ground." That's only as true as you and your opponent,



I think this came from outside MMA and refers to street fights which mostly take place between drunk/unskilled fighters, so it's not that surprising that 90% go to the ground, or end in under a minute, for that matter.

I wouldn't necessarily want to be doing bjj on the ground in that situation though.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 25, 2010)

Fruitloop said:


> That's always puzzled me a bit, 'cos although I'm no expert in the history of it, I've done a fair bit of Juijitsu and could never see the resemblance.



Depends which ryu I think. Kano's Judo is mostly derived from Tenshin Shinyo and Kito Ryu from which you'd expect an emphasis on standup fighting. You can see their stuff pretty clearly in Judo's koryu kata; Kime no kata and Koshiki no kata respectively, but quite a few of the standard waza of classical Judo seem to come from one or the other. 

Other elements came in though. Later on there were a few senior students like Tomiki and Mochizuki that Kano sent off to train with Ueshiba, founder of Aikido. So the much later Goshinjutsu kata has a bit of Daito Ryu in it (Tomiki seems to have mostly designed it) that crept in via Aikido. Kano seems to have decided early on that wrist locks were too dodgy for randori practice so you don't see them much in Judo except in the koryu derived kata which almost nobody bothers to learn these days unless they're at the Kodokan or some other place where you can find people actually able to teach them and they're going for >5th dan or something.

In connection with BJJ and groundwork, Kodokan also had an early tournament against Fusen Ryu and lost to superior ground techniques, so Kano allegedly did a deal to get the Fusen guys to incorporate their ground techniques into Judo. I'm pretty sure that happened before Maeda went on his world tour.


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## 8ball (Jan 25, 2010)

I'm a boxing fan, and I'm sure what I'm about to say is the typical philistinism you'd expect from people who don't understand this sport.

Now, I don't doubt that it is a supremely skilled art and that these athletes are incredibly expert and there are all sorts of things going on that I don't understand with my stunted little boxing brain but . . . I just wish there was more fighting and less cuddling, basically.



 <gets coat>


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## handy1 (Jan 25, 2010)

8ball said:


> I'm a boxing fan, and I'm sure what I'm about to say is the typical philistinism you'd expect from people who don't understand this sport.
> 
> Now, I don't doubt that it is a supremely skilled art and that these athletes are incredibly expert and there are all sorts of things going on that I don't understand with my stunted little boxing brain but . . . I just wish there was more fighting and less cuddling, basically.
> 
> ...



Me too,but when i watch Boxing on screen,i miss things.When i watch Boxing live i see much more.Openings,defensive errors etc.

The cuddling in Boxing,I.E. on the ropes is(verified by my ex-pro mate) the hardest,most energy sapping,part of a bout.


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## butcher (Jan 27, 2010)

The Boy said:


> I remember reading about either the Spanish or Portuguese union squad who underwent some judo training.  Didn't read anything after that so no idea if it was effective.



I read some posts on the old stickgrappler forum afrom a Sombo guy who liked the other to partially choke out members of teams in rucks and mauls. Just enough to make them groggy for a minute or so.

On the subject of WMAs I used to teach Savate and Canne de Combat which was fun. Both have unregulated aspects ie Grand Baton has no illegal strikes as such, Savate has a some wrestling in the old styles.

My mate who was a pro- Uk MMAer uses the odd bit of savate, but mainly whatever makes the grade, he is happy cos he just made a reverse omplatta in training


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## futha (Jan 27, 2010)

8ball said:


> I'm a boxing fan, and I'm sure what I'm about to say is the typical philistinism you'd expect from people who don't understand this sport.
> 
> Now, I don't doubt that it is a supremely skilled art and that these athletes are incredibly expert and there are all sorts of things going on that I don't understand with my stunted little boxing brain but . . . I just wish there was more fighting and less cuddling, basically.
> 
> ...





handy1 said:


> Me too,but when i watch Boxing on screen,i miss things.When i watch Boxing live i see much more.Openings,defensive errors etc.
> 
> The cuddling in Boxing,I.E. on the ropes is(verified by my ex-pro mate) the hardest,most energy sapping,part of a bout.



edit: I misread the posts 

Anyway....

I was the same, I wasn't keen on all the 'cuddling' (before I got into practising it). It seems like it just isn't as fun to watch unless you know what your doing whereas everyone can enjoy two blokes twatting each other


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## futha (Jan 27, 2010)

In terms of street fighting I don't see how pure BJJ will do you much good against more than one opponent.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 27, 2010)

futha said:


> In terms of street fighting I don't see how pure BJJ will do you much good against more than one opponent.



By its very nature, it's sort of counter-productive in that respect IMO. I think BJJ's early wild success was down to people not being sufficiently cross-trained. So someone who could fight from a BJJ guard on the ground had a big advantage in early MMA match fights because most karate etc guys were clueless in that situation. With modern cross-training it's still pretty useful in MMA, but no longer decisive. Fedor vs Nog was probably the key proof of that. 

For self-defence I'd consider BJJ highly dubious. In an environment where it's very possible friends of your opponent will join in, and where biting is at least a factor, grovelling about on the ground is about the least optimal fighting range. What I'd say about groundwork in that context is that you should be at least reasonably good at it, but train with a strong emphasis on getting back on your feet in order to be able to run like fuck and/or fight standing. Where you do use it, I'd recommend that you trade flexibility for decisiveness, e.g. do strangles, locks and 'finishing' strikes with say one knee on rather than full mount so you aren't over-committed if his mates show up. 

So I'd say train Judo instead, in conjunction with a striking art. Judo is extremely good in clinching range, especially if your striking style has at least some clinch fighting in it, say like Muay Thai, and while maybe not as effective as the more specialised BJJ on the ground, gives you enough of what you need to be effective in that range against non-specialists.


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 28, 2010)

I rate judo but the emphasis on the gi is somewhat unrealistic and not all clothes are manufactured that way. Bias or not, I'd pick wrestling as the grappling art for a street situation. Wrestling is basic and easy to remember. It's based on the rule of action to get a reaction. 

However, most good BJJ players - from senior blue belts and upwards, usually have a good wrestling game. It's the guys that jump into guard who are hazard to themselves (assuming they use such technique on the streets).


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## futha (Jan 28, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> By its very nature, it's sort of counter-productive in that respect IMO. I think BJJ's early wild success was down to people not being sufficiently cross-trained. So someone who could fight from a BJJ guard on the ground had a big advantage in early MMA match fights because most karate etc guys were clueless in that situation. With modern cross-training it's still pretty useful in MMA, but no longer decisive. Fedor vs Nog was probably the key proof of that.
> 
> For self-defence I'd consider BJJ highly dubious. In an environment where it's very possible friends of your opponent will join in, and where biting is at least a factor, grovelling about on the ground is about the least optimal fighting range. What I'd say about groundwork in that context is that you should be at least reasonably good at it, but train with a strong emphasis on getting back on your feet in order to be able to run like fuck and/or fight standing. Where you do use it, I'd recommend that you trade flexibility for decisiveness, e.g. do strangles, locks and 'finishing' strikes with say one knee on rather than full mount so you aren't over-committed if his mates show up.
> 
> So I'd say train Judo instead, in conjunction with a striking art. Judo is extremely good in clinching range, especially if your striking style has at least some clinch fighting in it, say like Muay Thai, and while maybe not as effective as the more specialised BJJ on the ground, gives you enough of what you need to be effective in that range against non-specialists.



I think you're right there Bernie. I like BJJ, its great, but like you said if you have the choice you don't want to be rolling around on the floor if possible. I am doing the BJJ more from a sporting perspective and the stand up stuff from a self defence perspective. Obviously they all compliment each other to a degree and anything that builds up your strength and balance will help in a real fight situation. Plus like you said it is useful to be handy if it does go to ground but that shouldn't be your main goal in a bar/street fight IMO.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 28, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> I rate judo but the emphasis on the gi is somewhat unrealistic and not all clothes are manufactured that way. ..


I think you'll find most pairs of trousers, belts and pockets are quite enough to get a grip of.  

Who needs to grab a top when you can get the centre of gravity.   I used to train a lot of my throws with a belt area grip, very effective and seems harmless. 

(I'm not arguing the point, just point out that grabbing doesn't always have to be sleeve/lapel)


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## Bajie (Jan 29, 2010)

futha said:


> I think you're right there Bernie. I like BJJ, its great, but like you said if you have the choice you don't want to be rolling around on the floor if possible. I am doing the BJJ more from a sporting perspective and the stand up stuff from a self defence perspective. Obviously they all compliment each other to a degree and anything that builds up your strength and balance will help in a real fight situation. Plus like you said it is useful to be handy if it does go to ground but that shouldn't be your main goal in a bar/street fight IMO.



Personally I have never trained with self-defense in mind and most martial arts are not self-defense orientated in any the real sense because they are either complete shit (Wing Chun), only cover 1 range (BJJ) or if they do cover all ranges dont include weapons or more that 1 opponent (MMA), the closest is probably the Marine Corp Martial Arts Programe which does include a lot of ground fighting.

So BJJ is in there, but only as 1 of the 3 ranges: Strike, clinch & grapple.

In terms of most martial arts, MMA is about as good as it gets for self-defense, but still leaves a large gap. Not that this matters for most normal people.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 30, 2010)

Thing is, a lot of them, when you look at the historical origins, start out as complete systems. If you look at the curriculum of one of the Japanese koryu, or one of the kung-fu styles, or for that matter Fiore Dei Liberi you're going to find weapons, wrestling, striking, awareness of multiple attackers and so on. The issue is that removed from the environment in which they evolved, you get a sort of drift in the techniques because they aren't being tested effectively anymore and other criteria besides 'will it work reliably?' are getting applied to them and you end up with something like Aikido or sport Karate or Olympic Fencing. 

The advantage of something like Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo or indeed MMA is that the rule sets are such as to actually force regular testing of at least a limited selection of techniques in a way that's not a million miles away from a real fight. Among such approaches, MMA is particularly comprehensive, but for obvious reasons (two people, limits on maiming or killing techniques, no weapons, no concrete or obstacles) isn't completely so and the interaction of the rules with the techniques favours ground fighting excessively because the evolutionary pressures against it aren't present. Judo in particular recognises this dilemma quite conciously and tries to work around it by putting as much of the koryu syllabus as possible into the randori part of Judo, so those techniques are kept realistic by free practice against resisting opponents, then puts the remainder, including all the weapons stuff, techniques for people wearing armour and all the striking, spine-locks and small-joint manipulation into the kata, where with enough application, a determined and skilled Judoka can probably figure most of them out using controlled partner work.


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## 100% masahiko (Feb 2, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> I think you'll find most pairs of trousers, belts and pockets are quite enough to get a grip of.
> 
> Who needs to grab a top when you can get the centre of gravity.   I used to train a lot of my throws with a belt area grip, very effective and seems harmless.
> 
> (I'm not arguing the point, just point out that grabbing doesn't always have to be sleeve/lapel)



Yeah that's true. 
Alot of my throws come from the belt area too - that's only cos I'm only 5ft 8.

I just prefer wrestling. I love my arm drags though if I was taller, I think I'd had been excellent in grecco. I just find those techniques easier to remember.

Last night, I exchanged some moves with a mate who's a Kali instructor (15 years hardcore experience). Some of his trappings were amazing. The pressure point locks on the elbows sent electric shocks through my body - well, at least it felt like that. Landed on my head a few times.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 2, 2010)

futha said:


> I think you're right there Bernie. I like BJJ, its great, but like you said if you have the choice you don't want to be rolling around on the floor if possible. I am doing the BJJ more from a sporting perspective and the stand up stuff from a self defence perspective. Obviously they all compliment each other to a degree and anything that builds up your strength and balance will help in a real fight situation. Plus like you said it is useful to be handy if it does go to ground but that shouldn't be your main goal in a bar/street fight IMO.



I've noticed that a lot of the BJJ guys do pretty well at stand-up against stand-up only guys. It seems that the stand-ups can get so paranoid about being taken down that they lose their effectiveness (bad stance, not fully committing to a punch/kick). Knowing both certainly seems to reduce that.

I've just noticed a lot of BJJ and wrestlers learning a bit of muay thai and knocking out kick-boxers lately. Great. 
I personally love it in MMA when a guy wins against a discipline that isn't his using that technique. Though you don't see many boxers submitting guys...


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## Structaural (Feb 2, 2010)

As it's raining - this'll put a smile on your faces:


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## futha (Feb 3, 2010)

Structaural said:


> As it's raining - this'll put a smile on your faces:


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 13, 2010)

Slightly puzzled by this fairly entertaining clip from a recent Guy Ritchie movie. Where did Holmes learn Wing Chun then? I though he was a Bartitsu exponent?


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 13, 2010)

Apparently Robert Downey Jnr knows Wing Chun. I don't find it jarring to see a Holmes who knows some techniques outside of those specified, though - it was a period where people were interested in learning all sorts of previously unknown foreign martial arts, and the character of Holmes would certainly have been able to study pretty much anything.


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## Bajie (Feb 13, 2010)

Robert Downey has been a chunner for ages and the moves in the clip are Wing Chun, but there is no way in late 19th centuary London anyone would have come anywhere near Wing Chun, as Wing Chun was not even known in Hong Kong until well into the 20th Centuary.

In the early Sherlock Homes books Arthur Conan Doyle refers to Holmes going in for Boxing, single stick and Fencing to a very high standard. That is very feasible for that time period and enough for a person to hold their own.

Bartitsu was added much later as an afterthought.

Probably just something Robert Downey wanted in the film, as movies are the only place where Wing Chun works.


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 13, 2010)

Well, Bartitsu is arguably the first mixed martial art, so that vertical 'sun' fist is fair enough because it was used in pugilism, but those characteristic crane hand Wing Chun blocks are a bit jarring for me. Wing Chun was a seriously obscure martial art back then and I'd be incredibly surprised if any non-Chinese had even heard of it. Still I guess as you say, Holmes might have had unusual connections, perhaps with some old Red Junk Opera Company revolutionaries 

Still, nice fight sequence ... even manage to imply 'shaking' fa-jing in slowmo.

I'm not entirely convinced Wing Chun is useless, I did it for about six months with a not-very-good instructor, but I thought it was a pretty good striking adjunct for someone with strong grappling skills. Steve Morris and other karate people whose opinions I respect were highly impressed by Joseph Cheng's ability to generate power back in the day (70's). But I get the idea that there just aren't that many WC people around who are that good. 

It's just very specialised, as far as I can tell, for 3 second fights with unaware opponents in confined spaces. If it's a match fight and you know you're dealing with Wing Chun, then unless there's a huge disparity of skill the WC guy is going to get slaughtered by someone with strong grappling and/or long range skills. That doesn't mean it's totally useless though. Just highly specialised for a particular, but perfectly valid, situation (e.g. initiating 3 second bar fights)


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 13, 2010)

Unless it's actually _impossible_ for him to have known some esoteric technique because it wasn't around then at all, I think Holmes could believably have learnt it somehow - after all, we're not talking about some London dilettante here. I'd give it a canon pass. Also, in the words of one of the few YouTube comments that is actually accurate: "In summary THIS IS AWESOME", which is a significant point.


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## Bajie (Feb 13, 2010)

Very unlikely, the chinese community such as it was in London at that time was minimal and oppressed, Wing Chun did not exist outside of a very small part of Southern China and as a fictional character Holmes was only interested in what was effective so he would not have any interest in something esoteric.

Gentleman of that time (as that is what the Holmes character was) did do boxing, single stick and fencing. It is what they would have learnt from a young age through the public school system.

Bartitsu itself was just a flash in the pan really in terms of a martial art and Conan Doyle even spelt it wrong when he referred to it.


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## Bajie (Feb 13, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I'm not entirely convinced Wing Chun is useless, I did it for about six months with a not-very-good instructor, but I thought it was a pretty good striking adjunct for someone with strong grappling skills.
> 
> It's just very specialised, as far as I can tell, for 3 second fights with unaware opponents in confined spaces.



Nope it is shit, and chunners always love to talk about the 3 second fight leaving out the fact there is no evidence that it is effective in any form at all 

In fact, I do not think it is meant to be effective, Chinese Martial Arts are bound up in a lot of different stuff such as mysticism, traditional medicine, nationalism etc that it was not until San Shou came along that CMA became effective again.


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## Bajie (Feb 13, 2010)

This probably as good as it gets in the TV or Movie adaptations as being close to the orginal stories:



Old school boxing


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 13, 2010)

The thing is that Holmes is portrayed as somebody with relatively limited interests, but in areas where has has an interest, it's taken to a ridiculously deep level. He's an expert in cryptography but doesn't care whether the earth goes around the moon or otherwise. If I was trying to create a believable historical English Victorian character I'd not go there, but I can imagine a part where it's explained that Holmes studied with a teacher from a particular area of China.


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 13, 2010)

Bajie said:


> Nope it is shit, and chunners always love to talk about the 3 second fight leaving out the fact there is no evidence that it is effective in any form at all
> 
> In fact, I do not think it is meant to be effective, Chinese Martial Arts are bound up in a lot of different stuff such as mysticism, traditional medicine, nationalism etc that it was not until San Shou came along that CMA became effective again.



Do you think say traditional Okinawan Karate is shit too? Something like Goju or Uechi Ryu for example?


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## Bajie (Feb 13, 2010)

That is not Wing chun though is it? I studied Wing Chun for 2 years intensively with one of Ip Chun's direct students, so I have full knowledge it is shit


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 13, 2010)

They're pretty close relatives I think.

I mean, I don't think much of Aikido as a practical self-defence system, despite having studied it for years, some of it under the two top guys in the UK (Terry Ezra and Dave Reubens) but I can see its value and wouldn't call it 'shit' 

My take on Wing Chun is that it feels like someone took the absolute stripped down basics of Fujian White Crane, plus a bit of Snake or something for emergencies (Bil Jee) and tried to build a crash course in the very basics. 

You aren't going to win any world titles with it, and it's not nearly as close to a complete system as say Goju is (and I'd say Goju works best if you also have traditional Judo or some flavour of Ju-Jitsu to the same level), but if you want something you can learn fast that works against opponents who aren't highly skilled martial artists and psyched up expecting a match fight, then it's potentially pretty viable.


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## Bajie (Feb 13, 2010)

Dont know much about them to be honest, so I can not say for any certainty one way or the other. The only karate I have any direct experience of is kyokushin karate, and that in it's own way is pretty good both in terms of their mentality and fighting ability.


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## Bajie (Feb 14, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> You aren't going to win any world titles with it, but if you want something you can learn fast that works against opponents who aren't aware and highly skilled martial artists, it's potentially pretty viable.



To be honest if someone wanted some fighting ability for that purpose, they would be better off doing boxing. It would be quicker to learn and far, far more effective.


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 14, 2010)

Bajie said:


> To be honest if someone wanted some fighting ability for that purpose, they would be better off doing boxing. It would be quicker to learn and far, far more effective.



Well yes, that's true. Partly though, that's because of the peculiar status of boxing in our culture. You're much better off legally KO'ing someone with a fast left-hook in a self defence situation than throwing them and destroying their leg with a step-over or wrenching their neck out with a Ju-Jitsu technique. Or Bil Jee style, popping out an eyeball.


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 14, 2010)

Bajie said:


> Dont know much about them to be honest, so I can not say for any certainty one way or the other. The only karate I have any direct experience of is kyokushin karate, and that in it's own way is pretty good both in terms of their mentality and fighting ability.



Kyokushinkai is pretty solid stuff, I'd argue because after their embarrassing encounter with the Thais, they made sure to train with realistic contact. So they are used to getting nailed and their technique is geared to actual fights. 

You can do that without full-contact fighting though. Goju does it by doing lots of makiwara to train for hard striking, lots of equipment training to build power and by using somewhat choreographed but still realistic paired drills. (The senior Goju guy on Merseyside in the 70's got his skull fractured during such a drill by Higoanna sensi, so they aren't playing tag exactly.)


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## Bajie (Feb 14, 2010)

No I did not mean because of any influence of culture on the legal process, it is because boxing is a very practical art and it is trained in an alive manner, as opposed to Wing Chun, which is not very practical at all and is very rarely taught in an alive way.

For example 100 hours of boxing training will usally consist of; cardio, learning new directly effective techniques, fluid movement, direct application of technique, pad/bag work and a lot of sparring

100 hours of Wing Chun would be; some cardio, learning a lot of ineffective artistic techniques and a very few effective ones that are lost in the fog, learning very rigid and unrealistic movement, forms and no sparring in 99% of schools.

So out of those 100 hours, there will only be a small part which is of any practical use and because it is shrouded amongst a lot of shit it is almost impossible to directly apply it.

If a person wants a hobby Wing Chun is great and Chi Sau is pretty good fun, but they should never kid themselves that it is an effective fighting style.


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## Bajie (Feb 14, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Kyokushinkai is pretty solid stuff, I'd argue because after their embarrassing encounter with the Thais, they made sure to train with realistic contact. So they are used to getting nailed and their technique is geared to actual fights.
> 
> You can do that without full-contact fighting though. Goju does it by doing lots of makiwara to train for hard striking, lots of equipment training to build power and by using somewhat choreographed but still realistic paired drills. (The senior Goju guy on Merseyside in the 70's got his skull fractured during such a drill by Higoanna sensi, so they aren't playing tag exactly.)



Makiwara training is not alive training though, if a person wants a hobby (like with Wing Chun) it is great, but if they want to learn how to fight they should always train in an alive way.


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 14, 2010)

Sure, but to mix is good. Look at the way the Thais train. Lots and lots of pad/bag work. You get power from pads or makiwara or whatever, obviously you still need to spar, clinch etc in order to understand how to apply that power.


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 14, 2010)

Check this out, lovely old BBC documentary (part 1, but the others are there)


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 14, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Check this out, lovely old BBC documentary (part 1, but the others are there)




The last bit of the final part where he's showing the bunkai (applications) of Suparempi kata is just magnificent.


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## Bernie Gunther (Feb 14, 2010)

Or this, Toyama doing Sanseiryu



'Come on then, steal my pension book if you think you're hard enough'


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## futha (Feb 17, 2010)

So what is the best way to deal with the situation where you kick at someone and they catch and get a good grip of your leg and start to raise it up putting you off balance?


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## Yetman (Feb 17, 2010)

futha said:


> So what is the best way to deal with the situation where you kick at someone and they catch and get a good grip of your leg and start to raise it up putting you off balance?



Jumping heel to the chin getting yourself as close to them as possible in order to hopefully land on top of them then smash their face in.


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## 100% masahiko (Feb 20, 2010)

futha said:


> So what is the best way to deal with the situation where you kick at someone and they catch and get a good grip of your leg and start to raise it up putting you off balance?



I have 3 possibilities - depending what instinct/mood I'm in.

1. While on one leg, I push their head to the outside of my body. From here, I fall backwards with their head in a guillotine. The fall should make his face smack the ground. Once on the floor, he would have let go of my leg allowing me to take his back.

2. He has one of my legs. I push his head to the outside of my body. I grab his belt/trousers with both my hands and do a back roll. The momentum of my trapped leg and body weight will make him fly over me.

3. (From freestyle wrestling). Turn my body and donkey kick the fuck out of his grip.

But I'm learning this atm (triangle is my hole in the game).


will try that out again.


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## 100% masahiko (Feb 20, 2010)

Does anyone remember Daniel Lynch? Twats like that give MMA a bad name. I hate the press describing him as a Cagefighter cos he wasn't.

He was a fuckin' poor white belt. He was stones heavier than but I managed to tap the cunt out. In fact, other white belts too. He's not a cagefighter cos he never fought in a cage.


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## futha (Feb 20, 2010)

Anyone watching UFC 110, just noticed it is on tomorrow? What time will it be UK time? I wonder if Myp2p will have a stream.


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## futha (Feb 20, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> I have 3 possibilities - depending what instinct/mood I'm in.
> 
> 1. While on one leg, I push their head to the outside of my body. From here, I fall backwards with their head in a guillotine. The fall should make his face smack the ground. Once on the floor, he would have let go of my leg allowing me to take his back.
> 
> ...




Nice


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## gavman (Feb 20, 2010)

futha said:


> So what is the best way to deal with the situation where you kick at someone and they catch and get a good grip of your leg and start to raise it up putting you off balance?



1 punch them in the face
2 kick down like you're trying to start a motorbike

and
3 aim your next kick to the head. if they're reaching rather than blocking that's your green light to knock them out with a higher kick than they're expecting


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## gavman (Feb 20, 2010)

futha said:


> Anyone watching UFC 110, just noticed it is on tomorrow? What time will it be UK time? I wonder if Myp2p will have a stream.



3am
can't wait
bisping v wand   
big nog v cain velasquez

<excited>

we'll have to have a chat.....


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## gavman (Feb 20, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Does anyone remember Daniel Lynch? Twats like that give MMA a bad name. I hate the press describing him as a Cagefighter cos he wasn't.



just like that fucking tosser alex reid

he's a FAILED CAGE FIGHTER, and a cheat

cage rage had to drop him from their shows as he had zero credibility and was affecting their's

for example
'the guy i'm fighting tonight is unbeaten in the ufc'

said journeyman's record was ten losses, no wins, one draw (at ufc brazil)
and his fight before that was against a (smaller) grappler making his debut, and reid entered the ring covered in oil so his opponent couldn't get hold of him. this is illegal in the ufc, but he got away with it in cage rage

 the only time he fought someone even vaguely credible, a well-past-his-best jorge rivera, he got knocked silly in just over a minute, couldn't even stand for the ref's decision or make his own way out of the ring..by a guy the ufc had cut from it's roster as 'past it'...all against a backdrop of self hype about being a roman gladiator, a modern warrior....just fuck off back to hollyoaks you big fraud


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## futha (Feb 21, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Does anyone remember Daniel Lynch? Twats like that give MMA a bad name. I hate the press describing him as a Cagefighter cos he wasn't.
> 
> He was a fuckin' poor white belt. He was stones heavier than but I managed to tap the cunt out. In fact, other white belts too. He's not a cagefighter cos he never fought in a cage.



Woah I didn't realise you were on about that cunt that got his mate to throw acid on that girl. Horrific.


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## futha (Feb 21, 2010)

gavman said:


> 3am
> can't wait
> bisping v wand
> big nog v cain velasquez
> ...



3am, oh man.


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## 100% masahiko (Feb 21, 2010)

futha - how is BJJ treating you?


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## 100% masahiko (Feb 21, 2010)

gavman said:


> just like that fucking tosser alex reid
> 
> he's a FAILED CAGE FIGHTER, and a cheat
> 
> ...



Reid was a good fighter when he started off.
But he had a succession of loses and his grappling is shit.

didn't know about the oil though!


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## futha (Feb 22, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> futha - how is BJJ treating you?



Not bad, cheers for asking. Its tough but I am enjoying it. Its so technical isnt it, I can handle the physical aspect ok (just about!) but it amazes me how it all works close up. I cant wait until I at least know a few basic moves, I am pretty much just flailing around on the floor at the mo . I keep getting dizzy too which I am trying to adjust to. I am in awe of it as a sport though. I never used to like it when UFC fights went to ground but now I love it. Sorry if this post comes out weird I am typing on my phone.


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## 100% masahiko (Feb 22, 2010)

What's your size and weight? I ask this cos I find that watching professional wrestlers with similar body shapes is real help in developing your game. For example, I find trngles hard to pull off in live sparring so I resort to the half-guard and x-guard. I get ideas from Marcelo Garcia videos on youtube - he is more or less, the same build as myself.

If you have a large frame, look at Roger Gracie. The guy keeps things basic and gets into favourable positions (the mount) pretty much effortlessly. And that choke of his, it's sick.

Yeah it's physically demanding.


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## Structaural (Feb 22, 2010)

futha said:


> Anyone watching UFC 110, just noticed it is on tomorrow? What time will it be UK time? I wonder if Myp2p will have a stream.



I hope it's better than UFC 109, man that was dry. Been enjoying Strikeforce more, there's been lots of surprises, though some of the fights are lackluster. 

But the fight between Christiane 'cyborg' Santos and the dutch fighter Marloes Coenen was better than than all the geezers on UFC 109.


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## 100% masahiko (Feb 22, 2010)

futha said:


> Woah I didn't realise you were on about that cunt that got his mate to throw acid on that girl. Horrific.



Yeah. 
The whole rape saga reminded of another story where a Judo expert would take out his victims with varying throws (was it here or was I talking to someone about in training? Can't remember).

It's pretty disgraceful but even at BJJ, you can tell Lynch didn't have the Brazilian mindset. He just wasn't into helping others...too big headed, stupid ego.


----------



## futha (Feb 22, 2010)

Just watching the fights from this morning. Haha the commentator in the Cro Cop fight just refereed to the epic beard man clip. He said 'the guy on the bus would say call the amber lamps'


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## ice-is-forming (Feb 22, 2010)

i'm late to this thread but i am really getting into ufc atm, been watching all the fights and learning the language.

my kids are all into it and the 3 boys are actually pretty good. the eldest is ex muaythai. the girl would be good at it too....she wants to start.

thay are all over 6 foot and long reach, arms and legs.

anyway i got talking to this bloke, tony taylor, the other day and he is just opening a new gym/stable here....got lots of financial backing.

where i live we have a lot of boxing (+jarrod fletcher even tho hes a wanker ) and also a trainer named craig glover whos
 wife and countless others from his stable have won national/international muay thai championships.

well him and this tony (jujitsu, crav magra, dim mak (sp?) etc...are all gonna be working together.

i'v managed to negotiate a years 1/2 price membership for 10 (my kids and mates) and they are all gonna be getting up to equal fitness levals than the serious training begins.

so this starts on march 1st......finally i can move their 'fight' club ' out of my front garden 

so i'm gonna read this thread and learn some more. thankyou


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## futha (Feb 22, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> What's your size and weight? I ask this cos I find that watching professional wrestlers with similar body shapes is real help in developing your game. For example, I find trngles hard to pull off in live sparring so I resort to the half-guard and x-guard. I get ideas from Marcelo Garcia videos on youtube - he is more or less, the same build as myself.
> 
> If you have a large frame, look at Roger Gracie. The guy keeps things basic and gets into favourable positions (the mount) pretty much effortlessly. And that choke of his, it's sick.
> 
> Yeah it's physically demanding.



6ft and 12 stone. I just need to get used to rolling I think, the dizziness thing is putting me off slightly, need to get over that.


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## Structaural (Feb 22, 2010)

futha said:


> Just watching the fights from this morning. Haha the commentator in the Cro Cop fight just refereed to the epic beard man clip. He said 'the guy on the bus would say call the amber lamps'



I heard that 

Joe Stevenson Vs. George Sotiropoulos was the fight of the night for me, oustanding BJJ from George (and a pretty good stand up game), nice to see Royce at the end there, watching a successor..

I always expect bloody knock-outs with the heavy guys, no surprises there


----------



## futha (Feb 22, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I heard that
> 
> Joe Stevenson Vs. George Sotiropoulos was the fight of the night for me, oustanding BJJ from George (and a pretty good stand up game), nice to see Royce at the end there, watching a successor..
> 
> I always expect bloody knock-outs with the heavy guys, no surprises there



Yeah how amazing was the BJJ in that fight  Truly awesome. Just come back from BJJ class myself, working on triangles and escapes from them tonight, really enjoyed it. Soooo much to learn though.


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## gavman (Feb 22, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I hope it's better than UFC 109, man that was dry.



shocking wasn't it?

i love him as a human, but randy's fighting style, and the whole american/freestyle-wrestler-ground'n'pound style that the ufc seems determined to keep on top, just bores me shitless!

plus i am gutted that vitor belfort has pulled out of his match with anderson silva. he is maybe the only striker in the division who could test anderson; the ufc will just keep throwing ground'n'pound guys at him otherwides.
looks like it's chael sonning next


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## gavman (Feb 22, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I heard that
> 
> Joe Stevenson Vs. George Sotiropoulos was the fight of the night for me, oustanding BJJ from George (and a pretty good stand up game), nice to see Royce at the end there, watching a successor..
> 
> I always expect bloody knock-outs with the heavy guys, no surprises there



i thought cro-cop looked like a different man, like he had his mind straight. obv his opponent wasn't up to much, but you could see from the way he was reacting up close that he is finally doing some proper sparring, as he was moving well and looking to hook inside rather than just shoving the opponent back into the range of his kicks.

everyone makes such a fuss about his kicks in mma, but in K1 it was his hands, left in particular, that did the damage. he was more about good boxing and mobility...but then he scored some highlight reel head kicks and the hype became about his feet, and this probably affected him mentally and changed his style, not necessarily for the better


----------



## futha (Feb 22, 2010)

gavman said:


> i thought cro-cop looked like a different man, like he had his mind straight. obv his opponent wasn't up to much, but you could see from the way he was reacting up close that he is finally doing some proper sparring, as he was moving well and looking to hook inside rather than just shoving the opponent back into the range of his kicks.
> 
> everyone makes such a fuss about his kicks in mma, but in K1 it was his hands, left in particular, that did the damage. he was more about good boxing and mobility...but then he scored some highlight reel head kicks and the hype became about his feet, and this probably affected him mentally and changed his style, not necessarily for the better



His opponent was a brave fucker though wasn't he. I will give him that. Didn't he step in at short notice too or did I mishear that?


----------



## elbows (Feb 23, 2010)

futha said:


> His opponent was a brave fucker though wasn't he. I will give him that. Didn't he step in at short notice too or did I mishear that?



Yeah it was a last minute thing, 2 days notice I think. Previously scheduled opponent Ben Rothwell had an illness.

I think Im starting to get a bit bored by UFC - the shows seem to be happening far too often these days. Still Saturdays show wasnt too bad and the rowdy crowd helped.

Hopefully I will get more interested again later this year when a variety of younger big names return to action.


----------



## gavman (Feb 24, 2010)

futha said:


> His opponent was a brave fucker though wasn't he. I will give him that. Didn't he step in at short notice too or did I mishear that?



he had big balls, showed a lot of heart


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## ice-is-forming (Feb 24, 2010)

i'v just been informed by the bloke who puts on the twice annual fight night here (muay thai/boxing) that he has a cage all ready and is just waiting for mma competitors to put on the card! cool as fuck  cos one of my sons reckons he'll be ready by the oct fights!


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## futha (Feb 24, 2010)

ice-is-forming said:


> i'v just been informed by the bloke who puts on the twice annual fight night here (muay thai/boxing) that he has a cage all ready and is just waiting for mma competitors to put on the card! cool as fuck  cos one of my sons reckons he'll be ready by the oct fights!



That is ace. I have never been to see it live, I get put off because from what I have seen on TV the crowd doesn't get a great view.


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## futha (Feb 24, 2010)

http://www.mmamania.com/2010/2/24/1324392/zuffa-rewards-anthony-perosh-with


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## kropotkin (Feb 28, 2010)

Did anyone watch bamma2 last night? It was the first time I've ever seen mma, and it was really good to watch.  
Are there any regular shows showing fights?


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## gavman (Feb 28, 2010)

ufc unleashed is the most regular programme, showing compilations of recent bouts

extreme sports shows strikeforce repeats every night

about once a fortnight you get a main ufc show live from wherever (usually vegas) shown on espn

mma live is a weekly round up, also on espn

the ultimate fighter reality show is probably the best introduction for a novice. some of the older series are repeated on espn classic

and keep your eyes skinned for fight club on eurosport, which is the elite stand-up mma competition (just striking, no grappling)


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## 100% masahiko (Feb 28, 2010)

Futha - you may interested to know that one of the UK's first every black belts (and I personally think he's the best British black belt) in BJJ has started a career in MMA.

http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS24930

I was trying to post his win over Hardiman on here but it's only available on FaceBook.

Annoying.


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## futha (Feb 28, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Futha - you may interested to know that one of the UK's first every black belts (and I personally think he's the best British black belt) in BJJ has started a career in MMA.
> 
> http://www.mmauniverse.com/fighters/SS24930
> 
> ...



Nice one, is it on his facebook page?


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## 100% masahiko (Feb 28, 2010)

check your inbox


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## futha (Mar 1, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> check your inbox


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## 100% masahiko (Mar 1, 2010)

futha said:


>



Yeah he is.
Black belt under Roger Gracie and he taught at Brixton BJJ (before we got shut) for a couple of months. He was the first black British belt and I find his skills bloody amazing. I was surprised how good his stand-up was too. Very smooth striker and that armbar in the end, is very typical of RGA...


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 1, 2010)

kropotkin said:


> Did anyone watch bamma2 last night? It was the first time I've ever seen mma, and it was really good to watch.
> Are there any regular shows showing fights?



I not seen Bamma 2 - though I heard only good things about it! It's a small circuit and Bamma generally is of a good standard.


----------



## futha (Mar 1, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Yeah he is.
> Black belt under Roger Gracie and he taught at Brixton BJJ (before we got shut) for a couple of months. He was the first black British belt and I find his skills bloody amazing. I was surprised how good his stand-up was too. Very smooth striker and that armbar in the end, is very typical of RGA...



Yeah he was impressive, the camera angle wasn't the best but you could tell he really knew his stuff. If I rolled with a black belt I would estimate it would take them around 10 seconds before I tapped


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 1, 2010)

futha said:


> Yeah he was impressive, the camera angle wasn't the best but you could tell he really knew his stuff. If I rolled with a black belt I would estimate it would take them around 10 seconds before I tapped



You can blame my Aussie training partner for the angle.
All of his films consist of stupid angles or a fat guy blocking the views.

(in ref to your earlier post on single leg defense) 
See if you can click onto his profile/videos. There's a fight with me mate competing at a BJJ tournament, his opponent had caught his leg in a single but still got choked out (while standing).

Nice...


----------



## futha (Mar 1, 2010)

I can't seem to see his videos but I sent him a friend request so will see if he lets me in  It would be good to see some BJJ stuff that is worked from standing up. Not seen much of that before, obviously because it emphasises ground work.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 1, 2010)

futha said:


> I can't seem to see his videos but I sent him a friend request so will see if he lets me in  It would be good to see some BJJ stuff that is worked from standing up. Not seen much of that before, obviously because it emphasises ground work.



PM your name on FB.
I'll send a request to you. The main reason I'm there is to get info updates on varying schools and competitors...


----------



## futha (Mar 1, 2010)

I bought a Gi from the gym I train at so now when I am getting severely beaten I will at least look the part


----------



## Structaural (Mar 2, 2010)

gavman said:


> i thought cro-cop looked like a different man, like he had his mind straight. obv his opponent wasn't up to much, but you could see from the way he was reacting up close that he is finally doing some proper sparring, as he was moving well and looking to hook inside rather than just shoving the opponent back into the range of his kicks.
> 
> everyone makes such a fuss about his kicks in mma, but in K1 it was his hands, left in particular, that did the damage. he was more about good boxing and mobility...but then he scored some highlight reel head kicks and the hype became about his feet, and this probably affected him mentally and changed his style, not necessarily for the better



Yeah, he was like a changed man, he always seemed a bit tentative in UFC (and a bit soft, he must have moved his training up a notch), but a much better sprawl and I only saw 2 kicks. He could do with a bit more ground game though, i can see a BJJ guy armbarring him, like Nog did once. His opponent weighed more than him - it certainly didn't seem like it...

Man, Nogueira's chin didn't hold up there either... night, night.

Found a good torrent site, there's a Fedor training video and bamma2 on there: http://www.bestmmatorrents.com/


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 2, 2010)

futha said:


> I bought a Gi from the gym I train at so now when I am getting severely beaten I will at least look the part



What make gi? And I hope it's white.

Coloured gis come after the first couple of years of training (or when you get your blue belt).


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 2, 2010)

futha -

wanna compete? be good fun.

http://www.fightyear.com/?page_id=9&event_id=17


----------



## futha (Mar 2, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> What make gi? And I hope it's white.
> 
> Coloured gis come after the first couple of years of training (or when you get your blue belt).



Aye it is white. Not sure of make, it was just one from the gym. I don't know the first things about Gis so just got one from there! it says Blitz on if that is a make? It has some other stuff on though so I am not sure.



100% masahiko said:


> futha -
> 
> wanna compete? be good fun.
> 
> http://www.fightyear.com/?page_id=9&event_id=17



I dunno if I am ready tbh, only been training BJJ two months. Even if I am lucky and get in to an advantages position for a brief moment I don't know enough submissions to make anything out of it  In the future I would be well up for competing though. Do you?


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 2, 2010)

Yep, your gi is a Blitz. I didn't know you could get them any more!
They're a good first gi (in fact, i rate Blitz equipment - especially their MMA gloves). other good budget gi is Gameness - their lapels are thick as fuck.

as for training for only two months - the comp is 3 months away.
in that, most white belts probably would know one submission, if they're lucky two! it's all about positioning, whoever is dominant. no big deal. it really isn't. 

yeah i'm competing.


----------



## futha (Mar 2, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Yep, your gi is a Blitz. I didn't know you could get them any more!
> They're a good first gi (in fact, i rate Blitz equipment - especially their MMA gloves). other good budget gi is Gameness - their lapels are thick as fuck.
> 
> as for training for only two months - the comp is 3 months away.
> ...



Good point actually, I wouldn't mind competing just for the experience really. Some of the white belts I roll with are pretty good (or they seem pretty good to me anyway) but in 3 months I will be more experienced.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 2, 2010)

Exactly.

It's all to do with that Bas Rutten motto - "position before submission."
Just learn side-control, knee on belly, north south.
And one submission.

That's all you need.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 13, 2010)

Oh this is interesting. I'd heard about Machida but not seen him fight before.

http://www.dalealplay.com/informaciondecontenido.php?con=177277

It's been so long since the 'full-contact' karate days that seeing a really good karate guy (who also has a dan in BJJ and has trained with the Thais) is a rare treat. 

His world title opponent seemed totally bemused about how to close the range against kicks that brought back misty memories of Terry O'Neill and the Red Triangle crew.


----------



## futha (Mar 14, 2010)

Since learning about Bjj/mma I am getting bored of boxing. I just want the ref to stop breaking it up as soon as they clinch. I guess to someone who doesn't know what is going on when they grapple or go to ground though boxing is a better spectator sport.


----------



## gavman (Mar 14, 2010)

the gloves look bloody stupid as well


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## Structaural (Mar 16, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Oh this is interesting. I'd heard about Machida but not seen him fight before.
> 
> http://www.dalealplay.com/informaciondecontenido.php?con=177277
> 
> ...



You'll disappointed in him if you watch UFC 104 though (against Shogun Rua) esp the decision...


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 25, 2010)

Swansea: thugs attack transvestites (who turn out to be MMA fighters)


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## elbows (Mar 25, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Oh this is interesting. I'd heard about Machida but not seen him fight before.
> 
> http://www.dalealplay.com/informaciondecontenido.php?con=177277
> 
> ...



That fight and the moments afterwards were very special, much fun & joy. Unfortunately this made his next fight even worse to watch, because it was the opposite of that, he had no real answers to his opponent Shogun Rua and should have lost but the judges awarded him the fight and much controversy ensued. I hope when I next see him in action it is more like the Rashad fight. Machida Karate deserves to last a little longer, I dont want it to be a flash in the pan.

Im looking forward to this weekends UFC, seems like a while since there has been anyone fighting that I cared much about, will be good to see George St-Pierre in action again. Do the clocks go forwards an hour, making it slightly easier to stay awake for?


----------



## elbows (Mar 25, 2010)

Oh dear the Thiago Alves fight has been cancelled, a brain scan has picked up something, dont know what yet but it could be bad and is potentially career ending.


----------



## Jazzz (Mar 26, 2010)

*Randleman Suplex vs. Fedor*

apologies if already posted


----------



## The Groke (Mar 26, 2010)

So...

_Huge _event for us Brits this weekend.

Sorry to say that it is only my heart telling me Hardy has a chance...



I reckon he will come out strong in the first and toe-to-toe convincingly...then get thoroughly out-wrestled and either subbed or pounded out towards the end of the second.

Still - stranger things have happened eh.

Either way, I reckon it will be a great fight.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 26, 2010)

who's fighting this w/end?

Fuckin' ignorant BJJ fools. Funny last night - seeing my mate (kali master 14 years fighting exp) choke a BJJ blue belt out, in the middle of a normal gym.


----------



## The Groke (Mar 26, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> who's fighting this w/end?




UFC - Dan Hardy's title shot against George St. Pierre!


----------



## futha (Mar 26, 2010)

What times are the fights on this weekend uk time?


----------



## futha (Mar 26, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Swansea: thugs attack transvestites (who turn out to be MMA fighters)



seen that before but its briliant isn't it


----------



## The Groke (Mar 26, 2010)

futha said:


> What times are the fights on this weekend uk time?





Kicks off around 7ish EDT - so wee small hours for UK.


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## futha (Mar 26, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Kicks off around 7ish EDT - so wee small hours for UK.



MMA really isn't the best sport to be in to if you value a regular sleeping pattern is it 

EDIT: I am being really stupid if its 19:15 US time what time will it be our time? I tried looking on google but got myself even more confused!


----------



## elbows (Mar 26, 2010)

Its not the best weekend to be trying to work it out manually due to the clocks going forwards.

ESPN UKs schedule has the pre-lims being shown live at 2AM and UFC 111 proper starting at 3AM.

I think I will be having a marathon tv sports viewing by watching the Australian Grand Prix immediately afterwards.


----------



## elbows (Mar 28, 2010)

As the clocks have gone forwards its now 20 mins till the ppv begins. Watching the prelims at the moment, fairly entertaining.


----------



## Wolveryeti (Mar 28, 2010)

Bakunin said:


> And here's one from the 'old school' UFC archives, so folk new to MMA can see where modern MMA has its roots.
> 
> Paul Herrera takes on Gary 'Big Daddy' Goodridge and loses.
> 
> Very badly.




No shit - he had a 73 lb disadvantage. Why do they let fights like this happen in this shitty sport?


----------



## The Groke (Mar 28, 2010)

Wolveryeti said:


> No shit - he had a 73 lb disadvantage. Why do they let fights like this happen in this shitty sport?



They don't any more which was the point of the post.

Over the last 15 years UFC has turned from a brawling freak show into a show case mma series for top flight atheletes. These are fit, highly skilled guys fighting in a tightly regulated format


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## 100% masahiko (Mar 29, 2010)

Hardy pulled a respectable performance. 
I really thought GSP would destroy him in the first two rounds.

Is there anyone for him to fight?
BJ Penn/GSP must both be getting pretty bored.

UFC need to incorporate more with the Korean/Japanese network for more fighters at this weight.


----------



## gavman (Mar 29, 2010)

if gsp wants a challenge he needs to do what bj did, and challenge the guy in the next weight class up; anderson silva

 i agree, dan hardy did very well to survive the distance, although i can't help but think that he's going to need plenty of time for his arms to recover


----------



## gavman (Mar 29, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> UFC need to incorporate more with the Korean/Japanese network for more fighters at this weight.



 seems to me that the ufc management do everything in their power to ensure that there is an american champ in every weight class. if there's two dangerous non-yanks in a weight class they will invariably have to fight each other before they get a title shot.
 i have no doubt the reasons behind this are commercial. zuffa are absolutely intent on maximising their profits, and americans won't pay to view sports they're not winning


----------



## elbows (Mar 29, 2010)

They have alluded to some dodgy stuff when they tried to get into the Japanese market themselves, I think there are several complex issues with this stuff that go beyond the commercial issues you mentioned. The fight scene may develop its own strange customs, Japan can sometimes be rather insular, and I would guess there are also some issues with organised crime. Theres also the question of how far their sphere of influence extends and simple geography- there doesnt seem to be a shortage of Brazilian fighters & champs/contenders.


----------



## elbows (Mar 29, 2010)

That guy who left the submission hold on way too long has apparently been suspended for 90 days, which doesnt mean all that much considering fighters dont tend to fight again so soon. I dont know if he got fined. It was horrible, personally I wouldnt let him in the Octagon again.

I enjoyed the show anyway, didnt post about it at the time as wasnt wanting to spoil it for anyone. Dan Hardy could get a new nickname 'Houdini' for that performance, although there has been some talk that GSP blames himself and doesnt think he was doing the holds properly on account of people giving up quicker in training so not ut to the test before. Even so, the phrase 'made entirely out of rubber' springs to mind.

Frank Mir has got the art of playing the bad guy down to a fine art, so whilst watching him get pummelled was great, its robbed them of a nice buildup to Mir v Lesnar 3. Still that Carwin bloke is well scary so Brock still has an interesting opponent for his return. Ref should have stopped the Mir fight quite a few blows earlier but I guess they are cautious about stopping too early, but Id rather they made an erroneous early stoppage once in a while than have someones brain destroyed.

The crowd booing a lot spoilt the show a bit in places for me, referee Dan Murlgliati (bad spelling sorry) had a bad night by responding to the boos.


----------



## futha (Mar 30, 2010)

elbows said:


> That guy who left the submission hold on way too long has apparently been suspended for 90 days, which doesnt mean all that much considering fighters dont tend to fight again so soon. I dont know if he got fined. It was horrible, personally I wouldnt let him in the Octagon again.



Who was that? I haven't seen the full fights yet. Had a look online but couldn't find clips.


----------



## gavman (Mar 30, 2010)

elbows said:


> That guy who left the submission hold on way too long has apparently been suspended for 90 days, which doesnt mean all that much considering fighters dont tend to fight again so soon. I dont know if he got fined. It was horrible, personally I wouldnt let him in the Octagon again.



 i couldn't agree more- that was horrendous, and clearly his fault.
 i'd like to see some sort of sanction in place for those who keep cranking after the tap/continue to strike an unconscious opponent. 
loss of half your payment to a charity or something, perhaps?
there should be no financial incentive for the management to dock fees, so the money should just go elsewhere.

 i think it's about time there were incentives for fighters to behave like human beings, rather than automatons who only stop when the ref pulls them off. the sport needs this to remain civilised imo


----------



## gavman (Mar 30, 2010)

futha said:


> Who was that? I haven't seen the full fights yet. Had a look online but couldn't find clips.



some bjj dude from brazil we'd not seen before. he looked like a steroid muncher, clearly had no class whatsoever


----------



## Structaural (Mar 30, 2010)

Just caught up, man that submission was horrible, pretty hard to recover from a fucked knee. And that ref took too long to stop the Mir fight, the guy was flattened out, it was almost like the ref was like 'you finished punching yet? yeah, you sure? okay I"ll stop the fight'. Thought Mir would've done better though, he seemed not quite with it.

The Pellegrino fight had excellent BJJ, that head plant looked well nasty.

I really enjoyed the GSP/Hardy fight, I also was also surprised to see it go the distance - though I would have thought Hardy would've thrown more punches, but he just didn't get a chance ('he never stepped in' I heard him say about why he wasn't throwing his left hook). Amazing how he got out of that kimura, but the arm lock wasn't quite right by the looks of it (he'd locked the shoulder not the elbow). Hardy must have done the old 'grasshopper lift the burning cauldron' thing when training with the monks  GSP is just outstanding though and he considers that a poor performance.


----------



## gavman (Mar 30, 2010)

elbows said:


> That guy who left the submission hold on way too long has apparently been suspended for 90 days



don't s'pose you've got a link for that?
i can't find it

 the funniest thing about saturday night was the expression on dana white's face when shane carwin beat frank mir; that's the reaction of a man who has just lost >$10 million in ppv
 thing is, carwin v lesnar is a much more appetising match up, just without the hype machine that is frank mir.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 30, 2010)

Is it me but won't Paul Daley get killed by GSP also?


----------



## Structaural (Mar 30, 2010)

gavman said:


> the funniest thing about saturday night was the expression on dana white's face when shane carwin beat frank mir; that's the reaction of a man who has just lost >$10 million in ppv



This face


----------



## Structaural (Mar 30, 2010)

suspensions following UFC 111

Drwal's knee okay


----------



## Structaural (Mar 30, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Is it me but won't Paul Daley get killed by GSP also?



Probably, he's fighting Josh Koscheck next though...


----------



## Structaural (Mar 30, 2010)

gavman said:


> i couldn't agree more- that was horrendous, and clearly his fault.
> i'd like to see some sort of sanction in place for those who keep cranking after the tap/continue to strike an unconscious opponent.
> loss of half your payment to a charity or something, perhaps?
> there should be no financial incentive for the management to dock fees, so the money should just go elsewhere.
> ...



I agree, he explains why he did it here, though (seems someone tapped and then denied it before): link..I'm not convinced..


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 31, 2010)

Has anyone found the link for on how he got a 45 sec submission?

He's meant to foot/leg lock expert - interested to see.

But yeah, from reading the reports, it's sounded horrendous - a nightmare.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 31, 2010)

slo-mo BJJ in the field:


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 31, 2010)

Structaural said:


> slo-mo BJJ in the field:



The Americana - it worked though, he won the tap-out.

That's so funny I added it onto me FB page.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 1, 2010)

http://video.mmator.com/2010/03/matt-riddle-vs-greg-soto-ufc-111.html

Drwal vs Palhares

Nothing wrong with it tbh.
Ref should had jumped in sooner - BTT guys fight like that.


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Refs should not need to physically pull at a fighter to get him to release a hold.


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Although it was comical that Joe Rogan was counting how many seconds the hold was left on and then realised it was a slowed down replay.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 1, 2010)

In normal BJJ comp, we release when we feel a tap.

But in the UFC, there have been too many occasions when a tap wasn't a tap - and to ensure a win, the ref must be the judge. I mean he stops fights when people get knocked out so why not for taps?


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

I dont object that much to waiting for the ref, but the hold was still on after the ref made his intentions clear. The stakes are raised when its a hold that is known to have quite a capacity to cause bad damage.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 1, 2010)

I thought he let go as soon as the ref told him to.

I just think the topic/ban has gone a bit OTT.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 3, 2010)

So what do you make of this then? Gozo Shioda, (clowning a bit) Aikido demo ...


----------



## futha (Apr 7, 2010)

I didn't know Renzo Gracie was fighting in UFC112


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 7, 2010)

Yeah and I hope he beats the shite out of Hughes - really dislike that obnoxious twat.

Penn vs Maia is interesting...though Penn must be favourite to win.


----------



## The Groke (Apr 7, 2010)

I am still debating on whether to get tickets for this weekends event in Abu Dhabi.

I can only really justify spending on the nose-bleed seats for me and the missus...and the view from that distance ain't great. For all the atmosphere, from that range you end up mostly watching on the screen anyway - I can do that from home for free.

Hm.


----------



## gavman (Apr 7, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Yeah and I hope he beats the shite out of Hughes - really dislike that obnoxious twat.
> 
> Penn vs Maia is interesting...though Penn must be favourite to win.



i thought anderson silva was fighting damian maia?

or am i being a thickie and it's a different maia?

ah no i remember now, bj penn is fighting frankie edgar


----------



## gavman (Apr 7, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Yeah and I hope he beats the shite out of Hughes - really dislike that obnoxious twat.



he's such a jock/plank

and the gracies will be out to regain their honour, after joyce being broken by hughes so comprehensively

hmmm...

insult of the day

you're a jockplank!


----------



## gavman (Apr 7, 2010)

The Groke said:


> I am still debating on whether to get tickets for this weekends event in Abu Dhabi.
> 
> I can only really justify spending on the nose-bleed seats for me and the missus...and the view from that distance ain't great. For all the atmosphere, from that range you end up mostly watching on the screen anyway - I can do that from home for free.
> 
> Hm.



it's a tough one that
i'd like to see it up close. but the general atmos might be a bit aggressive and shit....i'd be curious to hear what you think, if you do attend?


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 7, 2010)

gavman said:


> i thought anderson silva was fighting damian maia?
> 
> or am i being a thickie and it's a different maia?
> 
> ah no i remember now, bj penn is fighting frankie edgar



I stand corrected.

Some good basics for futha -


----------



## The Groke (Apr 8, 2010)

gavman said:


> but the general atmos might be a bit aggressive and shit....



I wouldn't have thought so...at least not any aggression that reflects back on the _crowd_ at any rate!

A friend and I went to see the first UK UFC at the Albert Hall a good few years back...that was great!

Decent view though - which is the bit I am concerned about here. I understand the grandstand is huge...and at the moment I don't really want to drop any more than the 120 quid it would cost for the two of us so we would potentially be right at the back.

Once you get to mid-low level seats, they are around 200 quid each!


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 8, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> So what do you make of this then? Gozo Shioda, (clowning a bit) Aikido demo ...


Shioda was very good.   He didn't look after his uke though, from other vids I've seen.

I spent a full week training with 2 Israeli Defence Force guys - 5th dan and 2nd dan - a couple of years ago and the Yoshinkan stuff (Shioda's version of Aikido) seemed to be at least as good as the other 'hard' or pre-war versions.

As for the clip of the guy not releasing the leg-lock for a tap - that's the ref's problem I'm afraid.   Club practice you release immediately - tourny/professional it's the ref's job.

However - considering the amount of damage being done to the other guy's knee...he's a cunt.   There's a line.


----------



## Jazzz (Apr 8, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> So what do you make of this then? Gozo Shioda, (clowning a bit) Aikido demo ...


I'd like to see what would happen if some top Aikido guy went in for a MMA contest.


----------



## The Groke (Apr 8, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> I'd like to see what would happen if some top Aikido guy went in for a MMA contest.




If he/she had _only_ Aikido training, they would most likely get the living snot pounded out of them...


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 8, 2010)

I'd like to see an MMA try and take a knife off me.   (Being wedged in his ribs doesn't count)

I'd like to see an MMA promote it as good for you to schools, women and the community.

I'd like to see an old but still healthy MMA.

I'd like someone tell me about the positive values of MMA along with interesting stories. 

Most other arts can do all of those.   Most of the high grades would have difficulty in such a stylised fighting system.   MMA would also have trouble sticking to the rules/behaviours of other systems.

Most arts would have trouble with professional fighters at their peak.

Get a 30 stone sumo motherfucker in there. 

This isn't an attack on MMA - just pointing out that most good systems have a holistic approach to the art and life.   You need something that's *good for you*.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Yeah and I hope he beats the shite out of Hughes - really dislike that obnoxious twat..



init, the Barney Rubble of MMA. (sorry Barney)


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

.


----------



## Jazzz (Apr 8, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> Get a 30 stone sumo motherfucker in there.


I remember that happened in one of the first ultimate fighting comps, the sumo guy didn't do too well at all, head was an easy target.


----------



## The Groke (Apr 8, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> *good for you*.




I'd argue it is!

Healthy channel for aggression, great gateway into an extremely high level of physical fitness, a fine outlet for those who perhaps would otherwise end up struggling to make a career in life as well as those who have made it just one choice amongst many they had.

Yes there are injuries, yes the body does get battered but I wager no more that your average Rugby player etc.

In it's current form it is still a young sport but it has come a long, long way from it's inauspicious beginnings.. Give it more time to evolve and the culture in and around it will do likewise.


----------



## The Groke (Apr 8, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> I remember that happened in one of the first ultimate fighting comps, the sumo guy didn't do too well at all, head was an easy target.



Yup!

Even in those days those big guys with rubbish cardio tended to get pummeled if they failed to end the fight in their initial heavy rush!


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 8, 2010)

The Groke said:


> I'd argue it is!
> 
> Healthy channel for aggression, great gateway into an extremely high level of physical fitness, a fine outlet for those who perhaps would otherwise end up struggling to make a career in life as well as those who have made it just one choice amongst many they had.
> 
> ...


Well, reasonable arguments made, fair dos. I'm still not convinced about long-term general fitness, like you say it's young.

I disagree with the rugby argument on a couple of things but your point is still good.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 8, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Yup!
> 
> Even in those days those big guys with rubbish cardio tended to get pummeled if they failed to end the fight in their initial heavy rush!


Yeah - I'm not talking about some fatty fresh off the plane though, I meant a fit, healthy sumo who's trained for fighting mma.   On second thoughts - it's daft.


----------



## Almor (Apr 8, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> Yeah - I'm not talking about some fatty fresh off the plane though, I meant a fit, healthy sumo who's trained for fighting mma.   On second thoughts - it's daft.



If you watch the Japanese events there have been a few sumos in mma including Emmanuel Yarboro (sp?) who weighed in at over 600 pounds and they are mostly pretty poor, Santoryu (sp? again), an american/hawaiin I think, was the only one that looked ok he wasn't great either.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 9, 2010)

I find you get much more injuries in MMA than rugby (having played both).
Alot of guys who do the grappling type arts suffer pretty much the same injuries, broken fingers, toes, neck problems, bad knees, shoulder rotary problems etc. I've seen so many nasty breakages in training. Makes me ill thinking about it. But MMA is just damn hardcore - from the start to finish it's 100% commitment. And as a grappler, I find punching while grappling to be too confusing. 

Long term of it, is that competition MMA guys lose that edge when they approach their 40s - cos that explosive strength turns into endurance. They probably (I know a few) take up wrestling, judo, BJJ or, a totally new art...or go into coaching.


----------



## futha (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks for the vid masiho. Only got internet on my phone at the mo so will watch soon. Got back into training myself recently after a gym closure and a virus both got in the way. Bjj is beautiful, it looks kind of easy but its so hard.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 10, 2010)

The Groke said:


> If he/she had _only_ Aikido training, they would most likely get the living snot pounded out of them...



Yep, I don't see Aikido as a complete martial art. It's more like a set of advanced methods for someone who already knows how to fight properly combined with a bunch of spiritual development stuff. 

In classical ju-jitsu I've heard a distinction made between go, ju and aiki. Go is use of direct force, like Fedor coming in swinging haymakers. Ju is the method of yielding, say by turning your opponent's charge into momentum for a throw. 

Aiki is when you tune in so well to their their reactions, timing and distance that you can lead them into disadvantageous positions and even into defeating themselves. It's typically associated with body evasions and fancy wristlocks which more or less rely on aiki to work, but actually you can see the _principle_ displayed by e.g. Muhammed Ali on a good day. 

If you're at a huge disadvantage in the application of the much simpler go and ju principles though, you'll have no chance to display aiki because you'll be knocked out or tapped out within seconds.


----------



## al (Apr 10, 2010)

Anderson silva is fighting tonight - should be good...


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 10, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> I always thought old-pre-Olympic Judo to hold more similarity with Brazilian Ju Jitsu. I roll with black belt Judo players and find that as a system it has many similarities with freestyle wrestling. I've been pinned by a black belt Judo player many times, and fuck, it's impossible to get 'em off!! They use the lapel, arm-bars, the cross-chokes - all these moves are evident in BJJ.
> 
> I love watching those old videos of Judo heroes.




Just found a nice quality clip of (a past-his-prime) Kimura massacring Helio Gracie in their famous 1951 match. Brazilian newspaper headlines at the end are hilarious. 



edited to add: 

Longer version:


----------



## elbows (Apr 10, 2010)

Oh I didnt realise how early it is on today, starts in 24 mins unless Ive got confused.


----------



## The Groke (Apr 10, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Yep, I don't see Aikido as a complete martial art. It's more like a set of advanced methods for someone who already knows how to fight properly combined with a bunch of spiritual development stuff.



Thought to be fair to the art, my comment could be far more generalised...

With the occasional exception of those _very_ skilled in JJ/BJJ any fighter versed - no matter how well - in only  one form of martial art is at a huge, huge disadvantage against today's multi-faceted, top-flight MMA fighters.



elbows said:


> Oh I didnt realise how early it is on today, starts in 24 mins unless Ive got confused.



Yup - just up the road in Abu Dhabi, so we are 3 hours ahead of the UK.

Just about to watch the live stream on the internet now!


----------



## elbows (Apr 10, 2010)

The venue looks nice on tv.

Do we do spoilers on here or should I keep my gob shut about results for now?


----------



## The Groke (Apr 10, 2010)

elbows said:


> The venue looks nice on tv.
> 
> Do we do spoilers on here or should I keep my gob shut about results for now?



Well I am watching live so fine for me!

Perhaps we keep in spoiler code for those who are watching later though.


----------



## The Groke (Apr 10, 2010)

Not sure WTF was going on with Matt there...


----------



## elbows (Apr 10, 2010)

Wowzers, not the most exciting fights Ive ever seen but plenty of surprises so far.


----------



## elbows (Apr 10, 2010)

Anderson Silva: not only a god of mma but also of physical comedy!


----------



## elbows (Apr 10, 2010)

Darn, no sooner do I post that than Silva becomes the opposite of entertaining.


----------



## elbows (Apr 10, 2010)

Dana White will not be amused.


----------



## The Groke (Apr 10, 2010)

No - he should be fucking ashamed really. Very poor, very odd. 

First few fights were promising, but Hughes and Silva especially did nothing for the sport in a potentially lucrative new market.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 11, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Thought to be fair to the art, my comment could be far more generalised...
> 
> With the occasional exception of those _very_ skilled in JJ/BJJ any fighter versed - no matter how well - in only  one form of martial art is at a huge, huge disadvantage against today's multi-faceted, top-flight MMA fighters.
> 
> ...



Combat Sambo is pretty close to the 'one art' ideal I would have thought. 

If I were designing one from scratch, I think I'd teach the kids Judo and Muay Thai and then start them on proper JJ (trad Kodokan Judo would be OK) and say Goju Ryu or some sort of pukka White Crane when they were mature enough to get something out of forms and equipment training etc. I'd even teach Aikido to the senior dan grades. My hypothesis being that trad martial arts have a lot to offer _if you already know how to fight_


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 11, 2010)

So I was looking for something else and found this classic Steve Morris rant. 

You may find it interesting (Morris can be a bit um, eccentric, but he absolutely knows his shit) 

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-32715.html


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 11, 2010)

Choice quote from Morris's blog: 



> Sanchin kata is the central kata in those Fujian  systems and their derivatives, and as such we would expect to recognize elements of the fight in the kata and vice versa.  It all goes back to my earlier post about close-fighting.  The close-fighting position is often a decisive phase of the fight, and if you’re going to need to be able to strike and grapple with your opponent and defend against the same while remaining on your feet, then you need to be in a position to do that most effectively.
> 
> The Muay Thai clips I showed exhibit what the principles of Sanchin in action would be.  They tell you what your kata’s about.  If you were to extrapolate from the close-fighting exchanges of Muay Thai, and distill that down to a form, after a couple of hundred years of stylization and formalization, and no real fighting, you might very well end up with the Sanchin that you’ve got today.


 source


----------



## The Boy (Apr 11, 2010)

Was watching the old UFC tonight.  Some good fights, some bad.

Just as a heads up, the Extreme channel (or whatever it's called) are showing the M1 challenge.  Not sure how old the fights are but it seems t9o be nightly and they show the whole fight or pick up in the second round.

One big difference I've noticed is how much quicker the referees are to stop the fights.  And it's FAR more entertaining/interesting without Joe Rogan _et al_ bigging up their particular brand at every available opportunity.


----------



## al (Apr 11, 2010)

elbows said:


> Dana White will not be amused.



indeed, not happy at all...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/...els-silva-maia-main-event-‘an-embarrassment’/


----------



## elbows (Apr 11, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Not sure WTF was going on with Matt there...



That fight was no good because the participants have lost the fight against time, they are too old to compete at a level that people expect.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 12, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Combat Sambo is pretty close to the 'one art' ideal I would have thought.
> 
> If I were designing one from scratch, I think I'd teach the kids Judo and Muay Thai and then start them on proper JJ (trad Kodokan Judo would be OK) and say Goju Ryu or some sort of pukka White Crane when they were mature enough to get something out of forms and equipment training etc. I'd even teach Aikido to the senior dan grades. _*My hypothesis being that trad martial arts have a lot to offer if you already know how to fight*_



Kids and MA - designing from scratch

It's about empowerment and most importantly having fun.
When I was young, I always enjoyed martial arts because my master - my illegal immigrant uncle - taught me moves in the most fun manner.
We were playing and chores to do with form became secondary.
When he got deported, I lost interest because the new instructor was boring and uninspiring. 

Kids learn differently for sure. The association between teacher and a child reminds me of a puppy meeting his new master...

When I have children (I imagine to be very soon, we're at that age) I will play with them in the style of BJJ and then JKD (JKD because I can't find a decent Northern Style Praying Mantis anywhere).
BJJ has elements of Judo are throughout - and JKD cos it's versitile and focuses on functionality and not to form or, sports.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 13, 2010)

Silva gets props from me for seriously pissing off Dana White. That's about it though, it seems he was trying to be Muhammad Ali but without the charisma.

On the whole that UFC112 was pretty poor, Barney Rubble's fight was so boring, two people shit at standup giving us a standup fight. Penn looked out of sorts - though I do think the judges were giving points for mobility rather than strikes to his opponent (an frame by frame analyst of every punch landed actually gives the fight to Penn). Silva's fight was actually the most entertaining, though it got painful to watch by the end. He claims Maia wanted 'to take one of his limbs home with him' and claims 'disrespect' and so beat him up rather than knocking him out, whatever dude, maybe like his Karate kicking buddy (Machida), he can't finish. I also think he wanted to piss off Dana for a lack of good opponents. Annoying, but he's some fighter, his movement was amazing. I'm surprised Maia kept standing up with him. 
If you want to see a good few fights, including a superb BJJ one (andre galvao vs luke stewart) check out Strikeforce that went out on the 26 of March. Though I think they'd borrowed some UFC judges. shocking

(oh it's on youtube here: )


----------



## The Groke (Apr 13, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Silva's fight was actually the most entertaining,



It was entertaining for just under 2 rounds. The rest was utter bollocks and Silva knows it as well as anyone.

Fight of the night was easily Mark Munoz Vs Kendall Grove. Haven't watched the prelims yet though.


----------



## gavman (Apr 13, 2010)

i thought the scoring of the penn edgar fight was laughable
(five rounds to edgar on one of the judge's cards!)
but that the result was correct- i had the first two rounds clearly to bj, with edgar taking the last three

that was head and shoulders the best bout imo; quality boxing from both guys. but why doesn't bj learn to kick? surely a guy as supple as he could be devastating, and that would have been the way to disrupt edgar's excellent movement

it seems that some of the ufc judges are as unfamiliar with good striking technique as joe rogon....can't they at least get another commentator who understands striking to replace that lump of knob cheese, mike 'solar plexus' goldberg


----------



## futha (Apr 16, 2010)

Anderson Silva was pretty weird. First 2 rounds were ace though. I bet Renzo has a sore leg!


----------



## futha (Apr 16, 2010)

how does it work in ufc in regards to title fights, how does a fighter get a shot at the title?


----------



## futha (Apr 16, 2010)

Structaural said:


> If you want to see a good few fights, including a superb BJJ one (andre galvao vs luke stewart) check out Strikeforce that went out on the 26 of March. Though I think they'd borrowed some UFC judges. shocking
> 
> (oh it's on youtube here: )



That is amazing but how in hell did that guy with the tats not win??


----------



## futha (Apr 16, 2010)

old bjj footage


----------



## gavman (Apr 16, 2010)

futha said:


> how does it work in ufc in regards to title fights, how does a fighter get a shot at the title?



method 1- be born in america
method 2- suck dana white's dick

best results come from combining both methods

alternatively, if you're at least twice as good as the americans that may be enough to get you a shot

 what i mean is, the ufc is really just a touring show and title shots/contracts/who fights who is all entirely up to the ufc management; there is no league, or knockout competition to determine who's next to challenge, it's completely autocratic

just like boxing, really...except the whole sport is in the hands of one major and a couple of minor organisations


----------



## futha (Apr 16, 2010)

gavman said:


> method 1- be born in america
> method 2- suck dana white's dick
> 
> best results come from combining both methods
> ...



cheers Gav, so how does it normally work in other MMA competitions? Is there some sort of league system? I had a feeling the UFC was pretty arbitrary


----------



## Structaural (Apr 17, 2010)

futha said:


> That is amazing but how in hell did that guy with the tats not win??



Terrible decision, they must be boxing judges (oh no they're rolling around on the floor again!)


----------



## futha (Apr 17, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Terrible decision, they must be boxing judges (oh no they're rolling around on the floor again!)



I couldn't believe it, all those beautiful sweeps for nothing. Even the winner seemed like he couldn't believe his luck.


----------



## gavman (Apr 18, 2010)

futha said:


> cheers Gav, so how does it normally work in other MMA competitions? Is there some sort of league system? I had a feeling the UFC was pretty arbitrary



the m1 challenge is the only one that i know of that has a league
i believe pride adopted the sumo season, with a big competition in spring and autumn, but i don't know how long they kept it up
i love the idea of an open competition, wimbledon-style, with all the best in the world battling through
but it could never happen, as all the organisations have contracts in restraint of trade that prevent fighters from appearing in any other show...in that respect, mma is even worse than boxing


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 19, 2010)

Alex Reid vs Roger Gracie on Bravo soon.

Is this a piss-take?


----------



## Structaural (Apr 19, 2010)

I wouldn't mind if Gracie knee-barred him for too long.


----------



## futha (Apr 19, 2010)

anyone see this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/apr/07/cage-fighting

A fairly balanced article, not perfect but better than you usually read. The comments are a bit depressing, plenty of what seems like middle class snobbery of the 'its for thick angry thugs' kind. I have to admit I used to get bored by MMA myself and the violence made me a bit uneasy but once I took the time to learn about it and started BJJ and MMA training I completely changed my view. It is the most exciting spectator sport I know. I understand why people don't like the violence but for instance I would never play Rugby again these days and if I had children I would much prefer them to train martial arts than play Rugby in terms of worrying about them getting hurt.


----------



## gavman (Apr 19, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Alex Reid vs Roger Gracie on Bravo soon.
> 
> Is this a piss-take?



ruining the good name of mma!

is there really that much potential crossover between bb and mma?
hollyoaks and mma? jordan and mma?

i truly hope this sinks without trace- i wouldn't dream of watching him, and any organisation that promotes him in a fight will lose all credibility

the man is a joke in a pair of gold lame hot pants.
 fancies himself as a modern gladiator, only problem is he can't fight, is a cheat, and his last televised bout was against a no hoper with a record:

 fought 11, lost 10, drew 1.

but as the draw was in ufc brazil, he had the nerve to say: 'this guy is unbeaten in the ufc'
he's a walking, posing, insult to every genuine fighter out there

if we're so desperate for uk mma stars, what's wrong with the ones who have actually, you know, been successful?
or are good to watch?
(and humble)
give me ross pearson, paul daley, andre winner, michael bisping any day

but of course, they're not shagging a media whore


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 26, 2010)

Funny vid of


----------



## elbows (Apr 27, 2010)

There was an insane 3-round megabrawl the other day between Leonard Garcia and Chan Sung Jung. The latter has the nickname 'The Korean Zombie' and the fight showed why - it was very special indeed, great fun.

Meanwhile Tito Ortiz seems to have demonstrated that he really is a scumbag in real life by getting arrested for domestic violence against Jenna Jameson.


----------



## gavman (Apr 27, 2010)

oh no
i had them pegged as a real life version of 'the wrestler' couple. makes me kind of sad
 i never liked tito at first, and his style of fighting is my least favourite- ground and pound. but i've had to give him his due respect for the way he has handled adversity in the ring, specifically his five round defeat to randy couture, and the way he coached on previous tuf
 i wondered why he was dropping out of the reality show.


----------



## Fruitloop (Apr 27, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Funny vid of



That's hilarious - one of the silliest things I've ever seen.

What on earth were they both thinking?


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 27, 2010)

Fruitloop said:


> That's hilarious - one of the silliest things I've ever seen.
> 
> What on earth were they both thinking?



The Japanese guy is gonna strike and wrestle right.

What I don't get is what Trevor Berbick was thinking? He was wearing boxing gloves at an MMA fight! And what did he expect? No kicking?

Defo West meets East.
Poor Trevor.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 29, 2010)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x35vd9_girl-fights-guy_sport

Why?


----------



## futha (Apr 29, 2010)

I watched the Rickson Gracie Vale Tudo doc on youtube the other day. Great film. It's on youtube (all of it) if you haven't seen it. 




Seems to be on google video in one whole part too.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 29, 2010)

Classic film!

That Japanese fella in the end, with the poked eye, he had a spirit man.
And shame on the Dutch man.


----------



## futha (Apr 29, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Classic film!
> 
> That Japanese fella in the end, with the poked eye, he had a spirit man.
> And shame on the Dutch man.



I know I couldn't believe he kept going! He lost his sight too from the gouge from what I read. I liked the American guy (but not his dumb coach), apparently he really did follow his dream and got to the olympics with the bobsled team


----------



## Jazzz (Apr 30, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x35vd9_girl-fights-guy_sport
> 
> Why?



Why what?


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 30, 2010)

Oh, I thought it was a proper fight that's all.


----------



## Corax (Apr 30, 2010)

Dunno why I clicked on this thread, I've never had any interest in MMA whatsoever.  I'm a fairly non-violent type, and I've always thought it was just brutal battering.  I really get no kick at all out of seeing people hurt and damage each other.  I makes me a little sick tbh.

I watched the video in the OP and it only served to confirm that.  It was just nauseating amounts of blood.

But for some reason I kept going, and then I got to this post:



Bernie Gunther said:


> OK, I've decided to take the long way round here. Next up is Fedor vs former UFC champ Mark Coleman, a very competent wrestler and steroid enthusiast.




How the *fuck* did he do that?  That was _amazing!_

I'm still working through the thread, but I'm starting to appreciate the technical/skill side of MMA.  It's quite impressive really.  They have to adapt their game plan constantly in a way that boxers (for eg) don't need to.

Thanks for the thread Bernie.  I've taken a half day A/L with a hangover after a work night out got very messy yesterday (kareoke in a gay pub ) and it's keeping me thoroughly entertained.


----------



## Corax (Apr 30, 2010)

Fedor appears to be pretty incredible.  I particularly like the look in his eyes before a fight.  Instead of being full of rage, or intense concentration, or anything like that, he looks entirely unfussed.  

I imagine him thinking 

_Shall I have potatoes or beans for dinner?  Who's this guy?  Oh yeah, I have to fight him first, I forgot.... potatoes or beans?  Hmmm.... Potatoes I think.  Oh, who's this guy?  Oh yeah, I remember...  Potatoes, definitely._


----------



## Corax (Apr 30, 2010)

Fuck me.  I'm up to the Goodridge fight now.  Fedor's a fucking _machine_.  He's pasty and portly, but I guess looks can be deceiving eh?

Okay, I'm converted.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 30, 2010)

Corax said:


> Okay, I'm converted.



 

Yep Fedor rocks! I love the guy and his bro

I met boxers, wrestlers, karate people and they all love the sport.

UFC is beginning to suck now.
USA! USA! USA! Almost like becoming WWE FFS!


----------



## elbows (Apr 30, 2010)

The problem with Fedor is that his management team are very hard to deal with, they want stuff that most promoters are not going to go for, vastly reducing the chances of us getting to see him fight most of the worlds top MMA fighters these days 

Its a real shame I cant provide any links to the amazing brawl featuring the Korean Zombie on the WEC show (that they chose not to brand as WEC) the other day - it wasnt very technical but it was awesome.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 30, 2010)

Are they unreasonable or are they just refusing to suck Dana whatsisface's dick?


----------



## futha (Apr 30, 2010)

Corax said:


> I'm starting to appreciate the technical/skill side of MMA.  It's quite impressive really.



 I had to take the sport up (only recently) to learn that 



Corax said:


> Fuck me.  I'm up to the Goodridge fight now.  Fedor's a fucking _machine_.  He's pasty and portly, but I guess looks can be deceiving eh?
> 
> Okay, I'm converted.



Fedor is ace isn't he, I love his aura. So calm yet deadly


----------



## futha (Apr 30, 2010)

Did you get to the Sami Berrik clip I posted yet Corax? It is a brutal knockout and not nice seeing the other guy twitch like that but the sportsmanship from Sami is great to see. Here it is in case you missed it.


----------



## elbows (Apr 30, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Are they unreasonable or are they just refusing to suck Dana whatsisface's dick?



Probably a bit of both. Fedors younger brother blamed Fedors manager for wanting to push his own business projects through Fedors fights.

Dana may be a dick in certain ways but he is all about making money and would likely have offered Fedor a lot to come to UFC, but it hasnt worked out.


----------



## Jazzz (Apr 30, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Oh, I thought it was a proper fight that's all.


Judging by the guy's face I think he was in a real fight. Only thing he might have not been throwing punches wholeheartedly. If so more fool him


----------



## Clair De Lune (Apr 30, 2010)

Stand up and fight I say


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 30, 2010)

elbows said:


> Probably a bit of both. Fedors younger brother blamed Fedors manager for wanting to push his own business projects through Fedors fights.
> 
> Dana may be a dick in certain ways but he is all about making money and would likely have offered Fedor a lot to come to UFC, but it hasnt worked out.



There's an interview with Fedor where he says (via translator) something to the effect that Dana White makes unreasonable demands and treats fighters like shit.


----------



## Corax (May 1, 2010)

futha said:


> Did you get to the Sami Berrik clip I posted yet Corax? It is a brutal knockout and not nice seeing the other guy twitch like that but the sportsmanship from Sami is great to see. Here it is in case you missed it.




Yeah I saw that.  The convulsions are pretty unpleasant but you're right that Berik clearly pulled back from that last punch.  Good to see.


----------



## Corax (May 1, 2010)

Who's the prick with the microphone that calls his co-commentator 'Boss' every five fucking seconds?  It's irritating as hell and just makes him sound like he's auditioning for Pinky and The Brain.


----------



## Corax (May 1, 2010)

I think I'm becoming a Jon Jones fan.  Just watched a couple of his fights and the boy really has skills.


----------



## PandaCola (May 2, 2010)

elbows said:


> Its a real shame I cant provide any links to the amazing brawl featuring the Korean Zombie on the WEC show (that they chose not to brand as WEC) the other day - it wasnt very technical but it was awesome.



Here you go

Chan Sung Jung v Leonard Garcia


----------



## futha (May 4, 2010)

PandaCola said:


> Here you go
> 
> Chan Sung Jung v Leonard Garcia



I saw highlights of that the other day. Amazing fight 

edit: just watched the whole thing, cheers for the link. Jung won that in my books. Great fight nonetheless.


----------



## gavman (May 4, 2010)

brilliant
what an entertaining fight

i agree with you futha, jung should've won. it was a poor decision, but an awesome fight, more like a western bar  brawl than an mma bout


----------



## al (May 5, 2010)

don't know if you've seen this - UFC Wired on youtube, some good fights on there....

http://www.youtube.com/show/wired


----------



## al (May 8, 2010)

Machida Vs Shogun tonight...


----------



## gavman (May 8, 2010)

can't wait
doesn't start 'til 3am...


----------



## The Groke (May 8, 2010)

al said:


> Machida Vs Shogun tonight...




Machida FTW.


----------



## The Boy (May 8, 2010)

Kimbo is fighting tonight as well, isn't he?  Should be good for a giggle.

edit:  machida to win.  But I've never successfully predicted an MMA fight before.  Except maybe Dan Hardy v Mike Swick.


----------



## The Groke (May 8, 2010)

The Boy said:


> Kimbo is fighting tonight as well, isn't he?  Should be good for a giggle.



He is a thug and a twat. Hope he gets owned - don't know anything about Matt Mitrione though...he has nearly 20kgs on Slice - a big guy!

Really hope Paul Daley puts Koscheck down as well. Even if he wasn't a Brit - can't abide Koscheck!


----------



## gavman (May 8, 2010)

i'm really worried that daley v koscheck will turn out to be a rerun of hardy v gsp, all wrestling and no striking, favouring the septic. koscheck used to represent all that was shit about american mma, laying and praying like the freestyle wrestler he was. however he seems to have learned to strike, and his defeat of diego sanchez gained my respect 

 i'm supporting shogun in the main event. he got robbed last time imo, but it should be a really good fight
(although the meathead ufc crowd seem unable to appreciate a contest between two high-level strikers, so they'll be booing all the way through )


oh well, there goes my sleep pattern
(again)


----------



## The Groke (May 8, 2010)

I like to see a good grapple/wrestling game as well as the strikers at work.

 I know it isn't always as exciting to watch, but coming from a judo background I empathise with what they are going through in the seemingly motionless periods!

Hopefully Daley won't give Koscheck a chance to hit the ground!


----------



## gavman (May 8, 2010)

well, just the one


----------



## The Groke (May 9, 2010)

gavman said:


> well, just the one




Indeed!



Coming on now - go Daley!


----------



## The Groke (May 9, 2010)

Hmmm:

Well, Daley made a right tit of himself with that weeks-late swing. 

Very surprised Rua demolished Machida like that too - fair play though.


----------



## futha (May 9, 2010)

That late punch was terrible, what a plonker


----------



## gavman (May 9, 2010)

gutted for daley, gutted for british mma, and what a truly rubbish fight that was. 
i think it really exposes the ufc rule system when we have fights like that, where a wrestler does no damage, kills the fight, but gets the win
i can understand daley's frustration
(especially after koscheck cheated and tried to get a point deducted)
but that late punch don't look good, especially to americans who tend to get terribly self-righteous about these things.
cue joe rogon saying 'he should be in jail'

 however shogun-machida....what a fight, just superb.
and didn't matt mitrione look good against kimbo?
kimbo seems highly vulnerable to leg kicks, and appeared to contemplate quitting every time he got hit with one.


----------



## elbows (May 9, 2010)

Daley fired for the post-match cheapshot and Kimbo to be cut from the roster.


----------



## elbows (May 9, 2010)

And I cant really describe Daleys antics as 'a late punch', the fight had been over for quite a while before he did that, they had been separated and stood up, Koscheck was walking away with his back to him, it wasnt like a few extra punches moments after the bell sounded.


----------



## Deareg (May 9, 2010)

koshchecks dive was a disgrace far worse than daleys snide punch


----------



## Bakunin (May 10, 2010)

elbows said:


> Daley fired for the post-match cheapshot and Kimbo to be cut from the roster.



So Daley is fired for a post-fight cheap shot (which I can understand, I suppose, as martial arts aren't supposed to be about cheap shots) but Dan Henderson can nail Michael Bisping when Bisping is flat on the floor and obviously out cold and he gets away with it.

I hold no brief for Bisping or against Henderson, but that sounds like a bit of a double standard to me.

Here's the end of the Henderson/Bisping fight:


----------



## gavman (May 10, 2010)

that whole business was disgraceful. bisping had really got up the american's noses by doing what they do all the time- trash talking- and more to the point by beating the american team on tuf reality

 mma live still talks about that as the 'moment of the year, shutting bisping up', so some naked tribalism combining with their hatred of losing to the english


----------



## The Groke (May 10, 2010)

Bakunin said:


> Here's the end of the Henderson/Bisping fight:



Meh - you fight until the ref stops it. In the adrenaline of a bout, when you are trained to be relentless, I can sort of see why he does it.
 From when he hits the ground to when he takes the second punch is under a second.

Daley on the other hand...what a benny.

The partisan nature of the commentary doesn't surprise me either - I doubt others would be any different if it was hosted and talked-through in the UK or wherever else.

Glad Slice is dropped - he was a one-dimensional curio anyway.


----------



## The Groke (May 10, 2010)

gavman said:


> and didn't matt mitrione look good against kimbo?.



He did - would like to see how he fairs against a better fighter though!


----------



## gavman (May 10, 2010)

just watched the mma live post-match show
really made my blood boil
makes me wish we had our own dedicated uk programme, and that cage rage wasn't so....naff

 dana white was reported to have said that paul daley will never set foot in the ufc ring again, much to the enjoyment of the panel


----------



## gavman (May 10, 2010)

The Groke said:


> He did - would like to see how he fairs against a better fighter though!



he's the first to admit he's a work in progress, but the heavyweight division is stacked with talent these days so he may have some tough fights ahead

did you see kimbo's scrawny chicken legs?
he's truly shown his achilles heel


----------



## The Groke (May 10, 2010)

gavman said:


> did you see kimbo's scrawny chicken legs?
> he's truly shown his achilles heel



literally!



gavman said:


> Dana white was reported to have said that paul daley will never set foot in the ufc ring again, much to the enjoyment of the panel



Yeah - I watched it this morning...he seemed pretty adamant!

It was still a_ really_ bloody stupid thing to do - Koscheck's dive notwithstanding - and I don't think I have seen it's like before in the modern UFC.

Lets hope Bisping can step up again at the end of this month and Dan Hardy bounces back from his GSP loss to keep flying the flag for the Brits!


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 10, 2010)

And let's not forget South London's Nick Osipczak...hope he bounces back too!


----------



## The Groke (May 10, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> And let's not forget South London's Nick Osipczak...hope he bounces back too!



...and we got Terry Etim and John Hathaway too, still both young but with potential.

Shame Terry got beaten in Abu Dhabi.

John has his first big opportunity in UFC 114 - he is up against Diego Sanchez...will be tough, he has great fitness and heart, but is relatively inexperienced and hasn't put his last two opponents away within the distance.


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 10, 2010)

I don't think he's ready for it tbh. 
It's a massive step up...


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 10, 2010)

Futha - I'm up in Manchester for a conference next week. If my feet aren't aching, I wouldn't mind checking out some clubs - MMA or BJJ.

Any suggestions?


----------



## The Boy (May 10, 2010)

Hardly surprising that Daley is on his way out.  Illegal knee* and *that* punch.  Koscheck did look an arse doing his best impression of a wendyball player, though.


*Ok, so it missed.  It was still blatantly illegal and blatantly deliberate.


----------



## futha (May 11, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Futha - I'm up in Manchester for a conference next week. If my feet aren't aching, I wouldn't mind checking out some clubs - MMA or BJJ.
> 
> Any suggestions?



Hey man,

Here are a few links, the gym I used to go to shut down earlier in the year sadly but I usually go to fighting fit which is fairly central. I haven't been to anywhere else so wouldn't be able to comment but I think predators is meant to be a good gym too.

http://www.manchester-mma.com/gym.html
http://www.manchesterjiujitsu.com/location/location.htm
http://www.fightingfitmanchester.co.uk/


----------



## The Groke (May 11, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> I don't think he's ready for it tbh.
> It's a massive step up...




Sadly I agree, but will be good experience for him!


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 11, 2010)

my 2 middle sons (16 & 17) are throughly enjoying doing MMA training! they started out with BJJ and were going to take up Muay Thai for stand up ( both me and their elder brother are Muay Thai trained) but having seen that most fighters locally have this as their stand up, they have subsequenty gone with a trainer, recently arrived from sydney, who is black belt+ in 4 different styles ,sensei david di giovanni.hes_ really _good.

the BJJ instructor is a well kept secret locally and the other blokes classes are small too atm and 5 minutes from our house and run every night in a great Dojo, so they are having a great training experience  in at the start/establishment of 2 solid local clubs and looking forward to the competition that a cage being ready for the next lot of local fights, in Oct, will bring


----------



## futha (May 13, 2010)

ice-is-forming said:


> my 2 middle sons (16 & 17) are throughly enjoying doing MMA training! they started out with BJJ and were going to take up Muay Thai for stand up ( both me and their elder brother are Muay Thai trained) but having seen that most fighters locally have this as their stand up, they have subsequenty gone with a trainer, recently arrived from sydney, who is black belt+ in 4 different styles ,sensei david di giovanni.hes_ really _good.
> 
> the BJJ instructor is a well kept secret locally and the other blokes classes are small too atm and 5 minutes from our house and run every night in a great Dojo, so they are having a great training experience  in at the start/establishment of 2 solid local clubs and looking forward to the competition that a cage being ready for the next lot of local fights, in Oct, will bring



sounds mint


----------



## Structaural (May 14, 2010)

Finally got round to watching that UFC. 

Man, Machilda got pwnd! Knocked out with temple strikes - I wouldn't be surprised if we never see him again - he looked well embarrassed, he didn't do much in that fight. Great justice for Shogun 

Daley's a stupid twat but I understand his frustration, typical UFC wrestling style, lay on top and do fuck all and get the 3 points for the takedown. Daley's ground game is poor though...


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 14, 2010)

futha said:


> sounds mint



it is  i just got back from watching them do BJJ and its great to see them still happily rolling around on the floor together, they have been doing that since they were babies, but now they are both well over 6 foot!


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 14, 2010)

futha said:


> Hey man,
> 
> Here are a few links, the gym I used to go to shut down earlier in the year sadly but I usually go to fighting fit which is fairly central. I haven't been to anywhere else so wouldn't be able to comment but I think predators is meant to be a good gym too.
> 
> ...



Thanks.

Fighting Fit do KFM! 
I wanted to see if that was a phoney. Looks very interesting. 
Ninjitsu unfortunately, is pretty lame but I love messing these guys up!! LOL!!

Fighting Fit's class only runs an hour?


----------



## futha (May 14, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Fighting Fit do KFM!
> I wanted to see if that was a phoney. Looks very interesting.
> ...



Yeah I hadn't heard of KFM before seeing it on there, looks pretty cool. Might try it sometime. Gi classes are 2 hours, MMA is only 1 hour but No Gi is on for another hour after that. I want to do more stand up MMA stuff in Manc though really, my stand up is pretty lame tbh, need to work on my basics, footwork etc. I wanna try Muay Thai but there is nowhere in central Manchester that I know of. I have to say I am not into Ninjutsi myself either!


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 14, 2010)

Ninjitsu - they don't spar.
And all the practitioners are weirdos. 
Real lame fuckers who love demonstrating to people that don't have a clue!
They really do my head in.

The class on Monday (fighting fit), is it gi or non-gi?

Shame you have no muay thai in central.
personally, i find it very hard on the bones...


----------



## futha (May 14, 2010)

Mondays and Wednesdays are Gi. Yeah you need strong shin bones don't you!

I forgot about this one:

http://www.manchestergroundnpound.com/


----------



## gavman (May 14, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> personally, i find it very hard on the bones...



that's where conditioning comes in


----------



## Structaural (May 14, 2010)

Wasn't there a ninjitsu practicioner in the very early UFC (the gracie ones)? If I remember rightly he got knocked out by a Judo black-belt


----------



## Bakunin (May 15, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Wasn't there a ninjitsu practicioner in the very early UFC (the gracie ones)? If I remember rightly he got knocked out by a Judo black-belt



The Ninja was called Scott Morris and he got ever so slightly pwned by kickboxer Patrick Smith:

http://www.fightsearch.com/videos/Mixed_Martial_Arts/Scott_Morris_Vs_Pat_Smith


----------



## futha (May 15, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Ninjitsu - they don't spar.



Yeah it just doesn't seem very 'alive'. You can practise moves all you want against a willing partner but as soon as someone fights back I don't see how you would be prepared. I suppose it depends what you are training for though doesn't it, I want to get a bit of self defense in with the fitness too. I am crap at sparring but it is valuable experience anyway and I wouldn't want to not do it.


----------



## futha (May 15, 2010)




----------



## 100% masahiko (May 15, 2010)

LOL!!!

Hey, why don't we all follow a 
Have a competition on who can get the black belt first?
Urban75 Ninjas!!

Or even better, we can take Masaaki Hatsumi's home course and get graded in Japan!!!


----------



## futha (May 15, 2010)

I really hate that thing where a supposed martial arts master lightly brushes someone with their arm and the other guy flings himself across the room. What with that?


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 15, 2010)

I know. Weak as an anorexic's turd.
Pony tailed tossers. 



This is the end result for a black belt.


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 15, 2010)

But I don't mind the Japanese Ninjas.


LOL!!!


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 15, 2010)

This is old news - you guys probably know this fight.
very dodgy refereeing.


----------



## Structaural (May 15, 2010)

Bakunin said:


> The Ninja was called Scott Morris and he got ever so slightly pwned by kickboxer Patrick Smith:
> 
> http://www.fightsearch.com/videos/Mixed_Martial_Arts/Scott_Morris_Vs_Pat_Smith



Ouch! 

(I still remember a Judo guy beating up a ninja with punches, maybe later on).


----------



## futha (May 15, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> This is old news - you guys probably know this fight.
> very dodgy refereeing.




Early stoppage? He was still defending himself.


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 15, 2010)

futha said:


> Early stoppage? He was still defending himself.



Very bad decision...

He didn't even pass his guard.

DO you need a gi for monday class?


----------



## futha (May 15, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Very bad decision...
> 
> He didn't even pass his guard.
> 
> Do you need a gi for Monday class?



At where, fighting fit? It's a Gi class but it's not essential


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 16, 2010)

futha said:


> At where, fighting fit? It's a Gi class but it's not essential



Cool. Cos I don't have much space for the gi.
May pop down if I have the energy!


----------



## futha (May 16, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Cool. Cos I don't have much space for the gi.
> May pop down if I have the energy!



Cool dude, I have loads of uni work on at the mo so not sure how much time I will have to train next week. Can't wait until this course is done in June and then I can dedicate loads of time to improving my BJJ!


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 16, 2010)

You have plenty of time for that...what's real good is that you've found some combat arts that takes years and years to develop. That stuff can wait and is an ongoing journey that only ends when the body does.

Will report on that club!

p.s - Manchester has changed ALOT!


----------



## futha (May 17, 2010)

I dunno what I am on about, there are loads of Muay Thai places in Manc, dunno why I couldn't find them last time I looked 

EDIT: Google search fail on my part, I just read on another forum 'Manchester is the muay thai centre for the Uk. Sken, Toddy and Master A all settled there.'


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 17, 2010)

Futha - you train at a very decent place. Nice level of competition and Liam? (middle eastern guy , born in Sweden, purple belt) is one cool mofo. 

As you know I didn't bring my gi - had to make do with the smelly 'club' one, smelt like a fat bastard sweated and died in it tbh.

Went well overall. Had a numerous taps. It's a bit deceiving when people think you're a white belt and you dominate the bouts. Liam is a good roller. Went against a couple of whites, tapped em out. Dominated a purple and got his back, 10 more sec he'd had got tapped, simply ran out of time.

However, I hyperextended my elbow. Went against a Manc, stupidly strong. He was real basic and used his muscle. We were sparring, he was forcing the kimura. I was blocking with my leg. Buzzer went, I relaxed the leg, he was still going and then crack.

Bit pissed off but it was my fault for thinking the bout was over.
Live and learn.

Defo check you guys out again sometime. The club and people is very similar to Pedro Bessa's place in my hometown of Swansea.

Good rolling!!! 
Live and learn.

p.s - Manchester is a real nice city. Really mixed for it's size. I should have studied here...


----------



## futha (May 18, 2010)

Glad you had a good roll man! Hope your elbow isn't too bad. I always think the round is over before it actually is myself as it buzzes at ten seconds to go doesn't it. Its a fairly new set up at that gym, the bjj classes were put together quickly when the gym everyone used to train at closed down but they did a good job. I am probably the least experienced white belt going there at the mo but everyone is cool and gives me tips as we roll etc. As long as I improve with each session I am happy. Just wish they did more stand up mma classes. How long you in manc for? It is a good city, not a pretty place but it has lots going on.


----------



## Fruitloop (May 18, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> I know. Weak as an anorexic's turd.
> Pony tailed tossers.
> 
> 
> ...




Crap parkour and something that looks like jiu-jitsu in slow motion? That's pretty much my experience of it.

I went to classes for a while, and just thought it was complete pants. I remember irritating some of the 'senior' members of the class by showing them that I could easily get out of the supposedly fight-ending submission holds ( I did judo for years here in NZ in a club that really emphasised floor-work). 

Not that there wasn't the odd interesting bit in it, for someone who's done a few other martial arts, but not enough to keep me turning up for the classes.


----------



## futha (May 18, 2010)

I am no expert in martial arts but Ninjutsu just strikes me as a bit... nerdy.


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 18, 2010)

futha said:


> Glad you had a good roll man! Hope your elbow isn't too bad. I always think the round is over before it actually is myself as i*t buzzes at ten seconds to go doesn't it*. Its a fairly new set up at that gym, the bjj classes were put together quickly when the gym everyone used to train at closed down but they did a good job. I am probably the least experienced white belt going there at the mo but everyone is cool and gives me tips as we roll etc. As long as I improve with each session I am happy. Just wish they did more stand up mma classes. How long you in manc for? It is a good city, not a pretty place but it has lots going on.



I noticed that at the end.
BTW- do you have many Brazilians at the club? 

To improve even more, I recommend you practice against that German kid - the 92kg one. He's calm, has good basics and awkward. There was another white belt (Duncan?), he is vulnerable to chokes, so you could practice your cross and lapel chokes on him. I think when you're starting off, you need to get real good at escapes. Liam is a soft and respecting roller for that kind of education.

I gotta do this fuckin' conference, meet someone for a quick dim sum in Chinatown (family bollocks) and then off back to London.

If you're in London, drop us a line. You're welcome to train at me school.


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 18, 2010)

Fruitloop said:


> Crap parkour and something that looks like jiu-jitsu in slow motion? That's pretty much my experience of it.
> 
> I went to classes for a while, and just thought it was complete pants. I remember irritating some of the 'senior' members of the class by showing them that I could easily get out of the supposedly fight-ending submission holds ( I did judo for years here in NZ in a club that really emphasised floor-work).
> 
> Not that there wasn't the odd interesting bit in it, for someone who's done a few other martial arts, but not enough to keep me turning up for the classes.



Ninjitsu artists are like mediums or people who claim to talk to the dead.
They tell you that their art is based on kills - yet they not killed anyone before. You ask them to demonstrate, perhaps in a sparring match but they respond by saying that they can't cos it's lethal. 

There's no way of proving/dis-proving!!!

Cosmic balls.


----------



## Bakunin (May 18, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Ninjitsu artists are like mediums or people who claim to talk to the dead.
> They tell you that their art is based on kills - yet they not killed anyone before. You ask them to demonstrate, perhaps in a sparring match but they respond by saying that they can't cos it's lethal.
> 
> There's no way of proving/dis-proving!!!
> ...



Agreed.

This is the method my grandfather (a retired sergeant major in the Royal marines) taught me when I was a nipper. It's rather more practical than ninjitsu, I think:

http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/learning/ruk-b/fairbairn-01.shtml


----------



## futha (May 18, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> I noticed that at the end.
> BTW- do you have many Brazilians at the club?
> 
> To improve even more, I recommend you practice against that German kid - the 92kg one. He's calm, has good basics and awkward. There was another white belt (Duncan?), he is vulnerable to chokes, so you could practice your cross and lapel chokes on him. I think when you're starting off, you need to get real good at escapes. Liam is a soft and respecting roller for that kind of education.
> ...



Liam is great for a beginner as he lets you try things out but with a good amount of resistance. Thanks for the offer dude, hope you enjoyed your trip to Manc (despite it being a business trip!). I did some work on the clinch this evening, my neck is killing me


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 18, 2010)

Bakunin said:


> Agreed.
> 
> http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/learning/ruk-b/fairbairn-01.shtml



Anymore? I love old manuscripts - funny illustrations.
Those techniques are plausible and I'd hate to face anyone that moves like that!




			
				futha said:
			
		

> Liam is great for a beginner as he lets you try things out but with a good amount of resistance. Thanks for the offer dude, hope you enjoyed your trip to Manc (despite it being a business trip!). I did some work on the clinch this evening, my neck is killing me



I have alot of time for that man. Had a real good roll with him - very Brazilian in style, relaxed, good breathing and highly technical.

Your brown belt taught the clinch differently to my past wrestling/BJJ coaches. Your elbow must be close to the body - any space shown is a weakness and that leaves you vulnerable to counters.

I noticed there was a Eddie Bravo book on the shelf. One of favs on half-guard...recommend that you borrow it.


----------



## futha (May 28, 2010)

UFC coming up on sat


----------



## gavman (May 29, 2010)

100% masahiko;10656949
Shame you have no muay thai in central.
personally said:
			
		

> i'm going to try be a bit more helpful than my previous post re conditioning;
> 
> get yourself a heavy bag and do a hundred kicks, landing with your shin, alternate legs.
> try and do this 2-3 times a week and you'll be kicking trees in no time
> ...


----------



## gavman (May 29, 2010)

futha said:


> UFC coming up on sat



rampage v rashad....can't wait!


----------



## Structaural (May 29, 2010)

gavman said:


> rampage v rashad....can't wait!



Just d/l now... Didn't Rampage just play Mr T in the new A-team movie?

hmm...


----------



## gavman (May 30, 2010)

killing time so i don't have to watch ads.....

he freely admits he doesn't enjoy training, and is flirting with a carer in entertainment
and yes, i hear he did play ba 

but to be fair, i bet it pays better than getting punched


----------



## al (May 30, 2010)

anyone got a reliable stream?


----------



## elbows (May 30, 2010)

Bah last nights show underwhelmed me but maybe I was just tired


----------



## gavman (May 30, 2010)

i thought the diego sanchez fight was superb

 but the main event was the usual boring letdown when you have a wrestler v striker in the ufc, where the american freestyle wrestler doesn't want to risk getting into a proper fight

my biggest wish would be a rule change to punish stalling wrestlers....so what if he managed to maintain ring control, all he's done is prevent an actual fight from breaking out. if a wrestler gets a takedown but does no damage, if he's just leaning on his opponent against the cage and doing nothing, how can that be winning the fight? 
 all i saw in the main event was stalling and showboating and it's seems incredible to me that can gain you a 'victory'


----------



## The Groke (May 31, 2010)

*spoilers*




I thought John Hathaway looked really good. He took a big step up in the quality of opponent and rose to the challenge.

To me, he looks like a "natural" - he was fit, strong, composed, fought intelligently and with variety and never stopped working.

At 22 and with relatively little MMA experience, he has a very promising future ahead of him if he gets the right training...add a bit of knock-out power and some submissions skills to his repertoire.





Bisping looked better than he has for a while too - very, very fit - he was still bouncing and throwing at the end of the 3rd like he was when he came out...if he can just put a bit more into those punches...


I would have liked both of those fights (and indeed the headline event) to have gone 5 rounds to be honest - I reckon we would have seen a definitive victory for both the Brits then...and Rashad would have put Rampage away more convincingly.





Oh - very poor decision in the Nog fight BTW - I reckon Brilz had that.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 1, 2010)

gavman said:


> i'm going to try be a bit more helpful than my previous post re conditioning;
> 
> get yourself a heavy bag and do a hundred kicks, landing with your shin, alternate legs.
> try and do this 2-3 times a week and you'll be kicking trees in no time
> ...



Hey thanks!
I'd probably rehearse what you do for conditioning at a later point in my life.
Life, marriage, work - very limited time in taking on more arts, however much I respect muay thai...

Fuckin' hell guys. 
Wish you did a 'Spoiler' Alert.
Been downloading and about to indulge. Now I know the results...


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 1, 2010)

Been following this thread on the latest Seni when a competitor in BJJ was punching his opponents http://www.efnsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9584.0 

Made me laugh at the such idiots.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 1, 2010)

gavman said:


> i thought the diego sanchez fight was superb
> 
> but the main event was the usual boring letdown when you have a wrestler v striker in the ufc, where the american freestyle wrestler doesn't want to risk getting into a proper fight
> 
> ...



Suggested rule change, if the fight stays on the ground for more than 10s, the ref starts kicking fuck out of the fighters at random, after each subsequent 10s he is joined by another official and so on ... 

That'd be a victory for realism


----------



## gavman (Jun 2, 2010)

exactly
go to the ground and your opponent's team mates get to kick you in the head 

my approach would be to see the takedown as a demerit unless there is an immediate submission attempt, or the takedown itself is a weapon (driving through or slam) in which case the grappler would then have to release or get called for stalling

or

the fight gets scored as a whole, pride style, with yellow cards for stalling

eg
evans vs silva
for two and a bit rounds rashad tries to prevent a fight breaking out and dominates position, doing no damage.
as he gasses silva goes to war, battering yer man and putting him on queer street, all he can do is try to grab hold, slow the fight and hope to be recued by the bell

current rules - two rounds to one for evans
gav rules- silva wins

 ufc bouts are scored like freestyle wrestling bouts. who gives a shit if someone gets a takedown, unless they do something with it?
imho it's only scored this way to give an advantage to american grapplers, as us mma is dominated by wrestling, the anti-martial art

 just take a look at big nog; within seconds of pulling tim sylivia to the mat he has reversed and submitted him. it seems that top level bjj guys can finish quickly and don't need the grind so beloved of freestyle and greco-roman grapplers


----------



## The Groke (Jun 2, 2010)

^^^^^^


"Don't leave it in the hands of the judges"

I know it isn't always exciting to watch, but the wrestling aspect is a valid skill and one can argue that if you are not good enough to adapt, work past the wrestling and score the points/ko/stoppage anyway, then you shouldn't win the fight.

There is always K1 etc for a more visceral, striking-based sport!


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 11, 2010)

Lidell vs Franklin.

Predictions anyone?


----------



## gavman (Jun 11, 2010)

franklin by ko
chuck's chin isn't what it used to be


----------



## gavman (Jun 12, 2010)

hmmm i'd forgotten about the vitor belfort fight 
franklin's chin not exactly iron....

chuck hits harder and fought at a heavier weight class, but he does look old and past it now
rich franklin is also damaged goods, qualifies as a striker in the ufc, but put him in a ring with a true striker and he's completely outclassed
(could also be said of chuck)

two has beens, really
but i'm leaning towards chuck now, just 'cos i like him more


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 13, 2010)

gavman said:


> hmmm i'd forgotten about the vitor belfort fight
> franklin's chin not exactly iron....
> 
> chuck hits harder and fought at a heavier weight class, but he does look old and past it now
> ...



me too. 
franklin is boring fighter. too machine like. great at grinding people down.

and unfortunately you were right bout the results


----------



## gavman (Jun 14, 2010)

yeah but wasn't the cro-cop fight superb!!! 

overall i enjoyed the show, but imo the gilbert yvel fight went the wrong way, another example of position being seen as more important than damage?


----------



## Structaural (Jun 14, 2010)

I wasn't going to bother with this one  - but I didn't realise Cro-cop was fighting. Just watched it - great fight!

I thought the Liddel fight was unexpected (ie. it looked like Franklin was going to lose), Chuck's chin is gone - it's like Frank Bruno's  still he broke Franklin's arm and Rich still won, gotta give him props for that - I remember seeing him look at his arm and wondered why...

Bit of a boring night though - too soon from the last one probably, any new Strikeforce worth watching?


----------



## Structaural (Jun 14, 2010)

oof, that Mike Pyle ending was nasty - out cold in the lock...


----------



## elbows (Jun 16, 2010)

I enjoyed that one more than the previous show, havent really tried to work out why exactly. Chucks loss of chin always seemed like a potentially major factor and sadly it was, unfortunately I first started watching MMA just as he started to fall from his peak, and the great comeback story they've wanted to tell ever since has never come to pass.

I think there is a Strikeforce show tonight, cant say more than that as Ive failed to follow that promotion much.

Large lol at the title & front cover of Forrest Griffins new book:

http://www.amazon.com/Ready-When-Goes-Down-Apocalypse/dp/0061998257/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2

Im looking forward to Lesnar vs Carwin.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 17, 2010)

elbows said:


> I enjoyed that one more than the previous show, havent really tried to work out why exactly. Chucks loss of chin always seemed like a potentially major factor and sadly it was, unfortunately I first started watching MMA just as he started to fall from his peak, and the great comeback story they've wanted to tell ever since has never come to pass.
> 
> Im looking forward to Lesnar vs Carwin.



Yeah - Chuck/Rich was exactly the result I predicted...but I didn't enjoy seeing Chuck like that.

Muchos respect to Rich for casually discussing how the kick broke his arm early on and he was worried he would have to change strategy in the second round because of it!




I _really_ hope Carwin knocks Lesnar's face the fuck off - he has a good chance too.

I reckon his wrestling is good enough to defend the Lesnar charge and we saw what he can do from the inside against Mir.


----------



## elbows (Jun 27, 2010)

Another MMA god has fallen - Fedor tapped out in just over a minute to Fabricio Werdum.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> Another MMA god has fallen - Fedor tapped out in just over a minute to Fabricio Werdum.




I don't think it was that unlikely a result though, given that Fedor hasn't really been tested in nearly 5 years.

He is a brilliant fighter, but the lack of decent opposition until now seems to have been his undoing.


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2010)

I dont read much into the Fedor loss because anyone can lose on any given day, need to see him fight again to determine if its the beginning of the end for him or just a one-off mistake. Some people are getting in a tiz about what this means for 'rankings' but those sorts of things have little bearing to reality anyway.

Not long now till we get to see Lesnar fight again - Im looking forward to this match, although I dont actually hate Lesnar so Im not dying to see him lose like many seem to be.


----------



## The Groke (Jul 2, 2010)

elbows said:


> Im not dying to see him lose like many seem to be.



I am!

I am not denying he is a fine athlete and proved the naysayers wrong by making a very successful transition from WWF to UFC...

He is still an utter twat though and I really want to see Carwin cunt him in the fuck.


----------



## Echo Base (Jul 2, 2010)

Hi all
what channel is the UFC on in the UK nowadays? I dont have sky sports but I do have Virgin, Bravo etc. Havent seen any MMA advertised on telly for aaaaaages.


----------



## gavman (Jul 2, 2010)

it's on espn bud


----------



## gavman (Jul 2, 2010)

The Groke said:


> I don't think it was that unlikely a result though, given that Fedor hasn't really been tested in nearly 5 years.
> 
> He is a brilliant fighter, but the lack of decent opposition until now seems to have been his undoing.



i can't describe how frustrated this view makes me feel- it's the official line passed down from the ufc management in order to belittle any other mma promotion.

shane carwin will be paid us$40,000 for his upcoming heavyweight title fight against lesnar, with the same again as a win bonus. the ufc management treats it's fighters like serfs and fedor wasn't interested; they needed fedor more than he needed them

 regarding his level of opposition, imo the only reason andre arlosky permanantly lost his ufc title to tim sylvia was the ufc wanted it that way, and scheduled an instant rematch that arlosky wasn't ready for- he just wasn't given a chance to recover and rebuild. in the rematch he was obviously not himself.
 however, by the time he met fedor he was fully recovered and really put him through some difficult times, before getting over confidant and jumping in. to be knocked cold.
 then you had tim sylvia being just blown away by fedor in seconds and dealt with in a fashion that no ufc fighter has ever managed
 so really he has faced top level competition, it's just they didn't have the ufc hype machine behind them


----------



## The Groke (Jul 2, 2010)

gavman said:


> so really he has faced top level competition, it's just they didn't have the ufc hype machine behind them




Hmm - I think we will have to agree to disagree!

Of course there are great fighters outside of the UFC - I am not contesting that - but I don't believe Fedor has really fought any of them in the last few years...or at least none of them whilst they were at their best!

Arlovski was the best recent test, but he is past his prime and Tim Sylvia's best days are a ways behind him too.

Not sure why Fedor apparently showed no interest in Overeem - that would have been decent match-up.

I thought Fedor looked like an amateur on the ground against Werdum...taking nothing away from Werdum's ju-jitsu though, which was spot on!

He rushed in and got put away like a guy with half a dozen fights under his belt.

If the reason going out like that _wasn't _his lack of top-flight opposition of late, what do you think was the reason for that incredibly un-Fedor like performance?


----------



## gavman (Jul 2, 2010)

he had an off day? 
maybe he's reached the twilight of his career?

he didn't need the ufc to become the best in the first place....

it just seems a bit like the constant ricky hatton criticism from the papers, and as soon as he loses everyone says 'it's because he puts on weight between fights',
but when you look at his defeats it clearly had nothing at all to do with that!  

 you may well be right, i just don't buy the notion that you have to be a part of the ufc hegemony to be a top fighter


----------



## Echo Base (Jul 2, 2010)

gavman said:


> it's on espn bud



Merde. I was worried you were going to say that. Had hoped it was on one of the channels I already pay a stipend for!
cheers anyway.


----------



## The Boy (Jul 2, 2010)

So is there a UFC coming up on Saturday, then?  Seemed to be an awful lot of UFC related stuff on ESPN last night.


----------



## Deareg (Jul 2, 2010)

UFC 116, lesner v carwin is the main fight


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2010)

When there are a bunch of interesting UFC shows coming up I usually subscribe to ESPN for a month to watch it on the internet via sky player. And then by the time the main event starts Im so tired I wonder why I bothered. I'l have to try to get up super-late tomorrow so I still have some energy left for this fight.


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2010)

The Groke said:


> If the reason going out like that _wasn't _his lack of top-flight opposition of late, what do you think was the reason for that incredibly un-Fedor like performance?



Its impossible to say, as anybody can have a bad day or make a mistake in a single fight, and people can read too much into it.

For all we know, if he had been in the UFC he may already have been beaten several times, or he may be dominating, its just impossible to know. 

And whilst I would not want to go too far to defend UFC management, Im pretty sure Fedors management company are a bunch of greedy feckers too who make demands the UFC are unlikely to meet, such as co-promotion. After the loss they seemed much more upset about it than Fedor was, because its going to reduce their bargaining power significantly.


----------



## Bakunin (Jul 2, 2010)

It'd be nice to see Lesnar against Fedor under the original UFC rules, methinks.

Those two having a bareknuckle, full contact, no holds barred slugfest would be especially epic, I reckon.


----------



## The Boy (Jul 4, 2010)

gavman said:


> shane carwin will be paid us$40,000 for his upcoming heavyweight title fight against lesnar, with the same again as a win bonus. the ufc management treats it's fighters like serfs and fedor wasn't interested; they needed fedor more than he needed them



Just for a bit of context on this bit.  Lesnar will be getting $400,000 with a similar sized win bonus and, apparently, a share of PPV takings.  On those ground alone I'll be shouting on Carwin this evening


----------



## elbows (Jul 4, 2010)

Tonights show has been very entertaining indeed. Lol at the result of the main event.


----------



## elbows (Jul 4, 2010)

Up there as one of the best shows ever I suspect, many great fights last night.


----------



## The Groke (Jul 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> Up there as one of the best shows ever I suspect, many great fights last night.




Indeed - was a great event.


----------



## gavman (Jul 5, 2010)

and for once, the main event lived up to the hype!


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 5, 2010)

Excellent choke from Lesnar and great great fight. I thought he was gonna bounce back from that 1st round...


----------



## The Boy (Jul 5, 2010)

As always, anyone I was rooting for got beat but it was a good night's fighting nonetheless.


----------



## gavman (Jul 7, 2010)

i'd like to see a rematch


----------



## Structaural (Jul 8, 2010)

ouch, flying knee (or is it)


----------



## gavman (Jul 8, 2010)

vernon 'tiger' white finding out how he rates as a k1 fighter...


----------



## Structaural (Jul 30, 2010)

bastard promoters:

http://www.inquisitr.com/80623/kickboxer-adrienne-simmons-dies-after-weekend-bout/


----------



## Bakunin (Jul 30, 2010)

And here's Mirko 'Cro Cop' Filipovic being as gentle with his opponent as ever:


----------



## gavman (Jul 30, 2010)

the perfect left hook:

!


----------



## Bakunin (Jul 30, 2010)

gavman said:


> the perfect left hook:
> 
> !


 
And if you liked that left hook, then you'll LOVE this one:


----------



## al (Aug 5, 2010)

Bakunin said:


> And if you liked that left hook, then you'll LOVE this one:




yowza - that's a peach of a shot....


So - Silva v Sonnen - are we going to see Silva prove the critics wrong? I'm pretty sure he can win, but it's just how he does it that matters after his last disgraceful outing. 2nd round KO?


----------



## gavman (Aug 5, 2010)

agreed. sonnen will make him work, right up to the point silva ko's him
i know they're making a fuss about sonnen's wrestling, but is he really a better grappler than dan henderson?
vitor belfort or another elite striker would be the way to challenge anderson. i do have to wonder how 'up' for this fight silva will be; i can't see him being concerned about yet another ground n pound merchant. i know everyone says he was a let down, but for me the guy is a true artist and you can't really expect him to get up for an unworthy opponent, just to make money for the ufc. if we want these elite guys to perform, they have to be challenged


----------



## The Groke (Aug 5, 2010)

al said:


> yowza - that's a peach of a shot....
> 
> 
> So - Silva v Sonnen - are we going to see Silva prove the critics wrong? I'm pretty sure he can win, but it's just how he does it that matters after his last disgraceful outing. 2nd round KO?



If he doesn't come out like a pro and put Sonnen away, his career in the UFC runs the risk of sliding.

He was a disgrace in Abu Dhabi as you say - the quicker he puts that behind him, the better and the best way to do that is with an emphatic, no-frills win.

He has the ability, no doubt.


----------



## gavman (Aug 5, 2010)

buakow por pramuk v anderson silva....now that would be a fight


----------



## elbows (Aug 6, 2010)

Silva may well be up for this fight because Sonnen has been cutting a heck of a lot of pro-wrestling style promos and seems to have gotten under Silvas skin with the sheer quantity of abuse Sonnen has been throwing his way.


----------



## gavman (Aug 6, 2010)

paul daly is reported to be in negotiations with strikeforce. i'd love to see anderson silva do the same, and begin to challenge the ufc monopoly


----------



## elbows (Aug 7, 2010)

If one of the problems with Silva is a lack of worthy competitors then I dont think going to strikeforce will help. Its going to be tricky for strikeforce to become anything but a distant second to UFC.

I dont have much of a problem with Silvas antics. Paul Daley on the otherhand, his cheapshot did not sit well with me and Id have been quite happy to see him banned from the sport. There are a couple of aspects of pro-wrestling that can be used by MMA to help promote fights and build interest in the characters of the fighters, hitting people after the fight is over is not one of them. 

Anyways Im looking forward to tonights show quite a lot.


----------



## The Boy (Aug 8, 2010)

Anyone up for this?  

Was gonna do my usual of watching the prelims live then catching the main event on Sunday evening, but a day off tomorrow so think will try and go the distance.  Hoping to fuck that Silva does a number on Sonnen.


----------



## diabolus (Aug 8, 2010)

Great win for Hughes.. looking forward to Silva destroying Sonnen.. so far all the fights have been pretty good


----------



## diabolus (Aug 8, 2010)

Excellent event, lived up to the high expectations.. Credit to Sonnen for an excellent fight, although his shenanigans with the tap out tainted his performance.. Having that tough fight will be good for Silva, he's had it a bit too easy in recent matches and just seemed to be coasting... A bit of a wake up call, and maybe he'll put in more training for future fights.. Hopefully not with Steven Segal again


----------



## The Boy (Aug 8, 2010)

Sonnen's shenanigans were shameful, tbf.  Although you can't expect much more from a Republican Senator, can you? Could prob have been avoided by a less hesitant ref, though.

As far as he other fights go, 'Big Country' really, really needs to lose some weight.  Fair enough he has good cardio for a fat guy, but that's no big thing.  Junior dos Santos has work to do.

Was glad Struve pulled out a KO (ok it was recorded as a TKO but World of Morecraft was out from what I could see).  He's always good value for money and he's still young, although I do worry slightly about the amount of punishment he takes in his fights.  Fitch was boring.    Was also a bit gutted dos Anjos lost - Clay Guida is a little bit annoying.

Anyway, Toney fighting against Couture in three weeks.  (Yes, I know there is the whole Edgar-Penn fight too, but I can't find it in me to get excited over that.)


----------



## gavman (Aug 9, 2010)

i can't imagine ever paying to watch jon fitch. or randy couture....


----------



## Old Gergl (Aug 20, 2010)

What happened to the Karate guy Bernie was enthusing about a while back? That fight was good to watch.


----------



## gavman (Aug 20, 2010)

would that be lyoto machida?

he got pwned by shogun rua. first fight was close and went the distance, but by common consent rua was robbed and machida got the decision
the second fight was over in seconds, machida knocked out cold

both fights were awesome displays of stand up fighting that mainly went over the heads of the ufc fans....


----------



## gavman (Aug 20, 2010)

on a different note, i'm worried that we may not see anderson silva fighting for too much longer. the man is an artist, yet the ufc seem determined to grind him down, and act like he owes them something

mma live was just plain nauseating this week. if you hoped that would be the last we'd have to endure of chael sonning 
we got a second by second breakdown of the fight...completely ignoring sonnen's attempt to cheat at the end. 
 imho the ufc is the most totalitarian regime to have ever issued a press release; fighters just cease to exist if they're not in current favour, yet those who are receive constant mention, especially if they are american

 and now the loud mouthed twat has called out michael bisping. but the more i think about that match up, the more i feel that bisping might have a chance of beating him.

 sonnen wins because he's a pressure fighter who makes his opponent wilt. however, so does bisping, and he has the endurance to match. plus bisping showed against dennis kang that he can protect himself on the ground and regain guard against a top flight grappler, and against dan henderson he showed how well he can box off the back foot.

 so while on paper sonnen's vastly superior wrestling would appear to give him the edge, i think bisping may be better suited to his style than silva was

any thoughts?


----------



## Old Gergl (Aug 20, 2010)

gavman said:


> would that be lyoto machida?
> 
> he got pwned by shogun rua. first fight was close and went the distance, but by common consent rua was robbed and machida got the decision
> the second fight was over in seconds, machida knocked out cold
> ...


That's him.

I'll watch those for sure.

Cheers.


----------



## al (Aug 29, 2010)

haven't watched last night's yet but found this

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_UFC_1_complete_PPV?vid=10012357&tid=107

the very first UFC PPV in entirety. It's really interesting to see how far fighting has come and also quite scary to watch these guys go at each other with no weight classes and no rules.


----------



## gavman (Aug 29, 2010)

bit early to talk about last night, i guess. but fight of the night was gabe ruediger v joe lauzon.....superb


----------



## The Groke (Aug 29, 2010)

gavman said:


> bit early to talk about last night, i guess. but fight of the night was gabe ruediger v joe lauzon.....superb


 
It was!

Unbelievably one-sided though!


----------



## gavman (Aug 29, 2010)

do you see what i did there..?..


----------



## Structaural (Aug 30, 2010)

al said:


> haven't watched last night's yet but found this
> 
> http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_UFC_1_complete_PPV?vid=10012357&tid=107
> 
> the very first UFC PPV in entirety. It's really interesting to see how far fighting has come and also quite scary to watch these guys go at each other with no weight classes and no rules.



I remember those (vaguely), used to get the VHSs from the Sports Bookshop. The refereeing was terrible! 

Man it was brutal back then, headbutts, kicks to a downed opponent, no gloves, no mouthguards. Proper


----------



## gavman (Aug 31, 2010)

is it safe yet?


----------



## elbows (Aug 31, 2010)

I think it must be safe by now, anyone wanting to hide from the results should be avoiding this thread after all. Well hopefully!

I was going to be hard for this show to live up to the last 2. It didnt, not by a long way. There were a few fights I enjoyed but nothing to shout about. The boxer was tough but useless. Penn still has no answer to Edgar. Florian had a hopeless time in his fight for reasons Ive not tried to work out. Nate Diaz made the not-Irish hand grenades eye look really revolting.


----------



## gavman (Aug 31, 2010)

stefan bonner stole my idea.....james toney v kimbo slice

i still can't believe toney's mma fight with randy got approved by the state athletic commission


----------



## The Groke (Sep 1, 2010)

The Lauzon fight was good to watch - hopelessly outclassed his opponent.

Was disappointing to see Andre Winner locked out by a wrestler like that...he really didn't take his opportunity to lay some fists on him.

Edgar made Penn look utterly pedestrian - Penn seemed to acknowledge this as well; unusually contrite for him.

Toney was like an old, fat, overturned tortoise. I was a bit embarrassed for both of them TBH, but I am glad Couture stuck to his game-plan and didn't even attempt to box with him.

I too have no idea what happened to Florian...weird.

Gray Maynard? *sigh* He _really_ needs to start finishing fights without the judges help if he wants a real crack at the belt.

Was a good night for good subs though!


----------



## The Boy (Sep 2, 2010)

Only caught the Edgar-Penn fight on the night, and have seen Toney getting taken apart.  Boring fighter he may be, but I quite like Randy - always seems jolly, smart and erudite in interviews.

Have to say though that the way the rules are interpreted - especially top control etc - are beginning to bug me.  Lay 'n' pray and all that.


----------



## gavman (Sep 2, 2010)

drives me mental. it seems that wrestling / positional scoring is more important than striking, damage or attempting to make a fight of it.
to me wrestlers are allowed to just kill a fight and then given credit for it. recent disgraceful examples were koschek v daley, vera v silvia, or any randy couture fight.
 us style mma really betrays it's wrestling roots


----------



## Structaural (Sep 3, 2010)

Isn't it an automatic 3 points for a take-down? I think if you do nothing with it or end up in full guard you shouldn't get the points. 
I quite enjoyed the Maia fight. 
Penn was shite - what's he doing boxing with the guy, he was far better on the ground, but was too knackered by the time he started taking him down. It almost looked like he was throwing the fight.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 3, 2010)

I think Penn was stoned.


----------



## The Boy (Sep 3, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Isn't it an automatic 3 points for a take-down? I think if you do nothing with it or end up in full guard you shouldn't get the points.
> I quite enjoyed the Maia fight.
> Penn was shite - what's he doing boxing with the guy, he was far better on the ground, but was too knackered by the time he started taking him down. It almost looked like he was throwing the fight.


 

I think what annoys me is that a take down scores so highly on the grounds of aggression and control.  It doesn't matter whether or not the TD does any damage or whether the fighter does anything once the fight is on the ground.  So if fighter A shoots for a successful takedown, it scores for aggression, effective grappling and control.  The same never seems to be the case where fighter B stuffs the takedown and, thusly, shows superior grappling skills and controls the fight by keeping it on the feet.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 7, 2010)

The Boy said:


> I think what annoys me is that a take down scores so highly on the grounds of aggression and control.  It doesn't matter whether or not the TD does any damage or whether the fighter does anything once the fight is on the ground.  So if fighter A shoots for a successful takedown, it scores for aggression, effective grappling and control.  The same never seems to be the case where fighter B stuffs the takedown and, thusly, shows superior grappling skills and controls the fight by keeping it on the feet.



I remember someone saying that the reason brazilian ju-jitsu competitiors have been so successful at UFC is that the rules and scoring have been practically written for them. 

As evidenced by such high scores for takedowns. Easy for them but not so easy for a kicking specialist for example.


----------



## gavman (Sep 7, 2010)

gavman said:


> drives me mental. it seems that wrestling / positional scoring is more important than striking, damage or attempting to make a fight of it.
> to me wrestlers are allowed to just kill a fight and then given credit for it. recent disgraceful examples were koschek v daley, vera v silvia, or any randy couture fight.
> us style mma really betrays it's wrestling roots


 
and of course rashad evans


----------



## gavman (Sep 7, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> I think Penn was stoned.


 
i actualy agree with joe rogon about this. i think was down to poor tactics / cornering

bj gives the impression of someone who is very hard to work with, and i get the impression that anyone with much intelligence or independence of mind struggles to be around him. imo this is why the quality of tactical advice he receives is so bad


----------



## Deareg (Sep 17, 2010)

Does anyone know what station and time the ultimate fighter is showing?



just found it, sky 2 tuesdays at 10pm if anyone else was wondering


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 19, 2010)

my son is finding it increasingly frustrating that people dont want to engage in jui jitsu where we live, he is running out of grappeling partners. he has no shortage of stand up partners but he reckons that  everyone is too homophobic here in regional/rural QLD to be able to grapple.  In the last local fights, out of a card of 15 fights, there was only 1 tap out 
 whats other peoples experiences?


----------



## gavman (Sep 19, 2010)

brits like to brawl / strike


----------



## gavman (Sep 19, 2010)

Deareg said:


> Does anyone know what station and time the ultimate fighter is showing?
> 
> 
> 
> just found it, sky 2 tuesdays at 10pm if anyone else was wondering


 
nice one, i've been looking for that


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2010)

Deary me, details not clear yet but it sounds like Chael Sonnen has failed his post-Silva-fight drugs test. There goes the rematch! What a dumb ass, I knew he was a dick as he is a republican estate agent, but given the ways to get round drugs tests in mma he was either very stupid or unlucky with his body not getting the stuff out of his system at the normal pace.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 19, 2010)

just found this 

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/CSAC-Sonnen-Positive-for-PEDs-at-UFC-117-26978


----------



## gavman (Sep 20, 2010)

elbows said:


> Deary me, details not clear yet but it sounds like Chael Sonnen has failed his post-Silva-fight drugs test. There goes the rematch! What a dumb ass, I knew he was a dick as he is a republican estate agent, but given the ways to get round drugs tests in mma he was either very stupid or unlucky with his body not getting the stuff out of his system at the normal pace.


 
bloody hell. that just made my day


----------



## gavman (Sep 20, 2010)

Deareg said:


> Does anyone know what station and time the ultimate fighter is showing?
> 
> 
> 
> just found it, sky 2 tuesdays at 10pm if anyone else was wondering


 
i can't find that on my schedule


----------



## Structaural (Sep 20, 2010)

I watched the first episode of Ultimate Fighter (first one I've seen since the first series), and was surprisingly... surprised. Good coaches (GSP and Koscheck), good weight class (lightweights) and some great fights at the end. Looks interesting. 'Bruce Leroy' lol

hahaha fuck off Sonnen you right-wing, trash-talking (he should switch to WWE) twat.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 20, 2010)

gavman said:


> i can't find that on my schedule



just checked it, definitely 10pm sky 2 tuesdays

eta, sorry that should have been sky sports 2


----------



## The Boy (Sep 20, 2010)

Deareg said:


> just found this
> 
> http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/CSAC-Sonnen-Positive-for-PEDs-at-UFC-117-26978


 
That has made me very


----------



## gavman (Sep 21, 2010)

Deareg said:


> just checked it, definitely 10pm sky 2 tuesdays
> 
> eta, sorry that should have been sky sports 2


 
ahhh bollocks. that's why
that's fucking shite. i don't bother with the sky sports package as it's full of rubbish, third-rate boxing and the heat-magazine-football-all-stars.
 so now i have to get the whole lot just to watch tuf?

fuck that. 
where's the nearest streaming site?


----------



## gavman (Sep 21, 2010)

dp.


----------



## gavman (Sep 21, 2010)

The Boy said:


> That has made me very


 
couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
we don't need that disgusting shit-stain in the sport. why americans love trash talk (although only as long as it's a yank doing the talking) i will never understand- just makes the whole scene look squalid and populated by eejits.
 that stuff doesn't even belong in showbiz wrestling imo...do we want our kids to be loud-mouthed braggarts?
it isn't a part of mma, it's a part of the american wrestling scene, and i expect genuine martial artists to conduct themselves with a bit more class.
i find this, along with the drugs cheating, to be far more heinous than paul daley lashing out at koschek after he's played the rules to steal a fight he didn't want to have
however, since dana white has such a hard-on for the cheat, will we see him life banned from the ufc, like daley?

fat fucking chance. they'll probably give him another title shot, like sean sherk got with his first fight back after suspension.

the ufc just can't be trusted to look after mma. i wish the japanese would hurry up and start another promotion...k1 mma, anyone?


----------



## gavman (Sep 21, 2010)

bloody hell. another dp

said the actress to the bishop


----------



## Structaural (Sep 21, 2010)

gavman said:


> couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
> we don't need that disgusting shit-stain in the sport. why americans love trash talk (although only as long as it's a yank doing the talking) i will never understand- just makes the whole scene look squalid and populated by eejits.
> that stuff doesn't even belong in showbiz wrestling imo...do we want our kids to be loud-mouthed braggarts?
> it isn't a part of mma, it's a part of the american wrestling scene, and i expect genuine martial artists to conduct themselves with a bit more class.
> ...


 
I agree. Sonnen makes himself look like a right twat after saying the following about Armstrong and Phelps (with regards to PEDs and pot): http://www.mmamania.com/2010/8/3/1603328/ufc-quick-quote-chael-sonnen-says

This guy trash-talked Shinya Aoiki before this fight:


warning - not nice!


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2010)

I dont like Sonnen but I disagree about the promos, I think they are an important part of building up the fights and differentiating the fighters. I dont want all fighters to do pro-wrestling style promos but having a few do it does no harm to the sport as far as Im concerned. As for Japan saving mma, I dont agree with that either, what with all the links to organised crime and the worked matches that certain Japanese promotions indulged in at some moments in their history.

Cant imagine Sonnen getting a lifetime ban, they just dont do that sort of thing to people who fail tests. What destroys the sport for me is the general lax attitude towards this stuff, UFC dont do their own testing and lots and lots of fighters use performance enhancing drugs, they just know how to get away with it.


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2010)

A few more details emerging on Sonnen, he failed for abnormally high levels of testosterone. And the stupidity gets worse, apparently before the fight he told the state athletic commissioner that he had taken a banned substance, duh. This also raises some questions about why the fight even went ahead.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 25, 2010)

has anyone ever seen a bigger load of bollox than alex reids entrance into the cage tonight?


----------



## Deareg (Sep 25, 2010)

i forgive him for that entrance after watching the fight, he showed balls to burn, i hope there is a rematch


----------



## futha (Sep 26, 2010)

I enjoyed the Reid Watson fight. Very entertaining.


----------



## gavman (Sep 27, 2010)

ufc 119, more terrible judge's decisions. 
the scoring seems to work like this:
takedowns = victory. even if you do no damage, even if you can't hold your opponent down and threaten submissions, even if you're getting battered on your feet all round, if you can get one takedown (out of half a dozen attempts), you win the round.
what is the logic here?
as has been said here before, if the wrestler wants to get the fight to the ground and succeeds, he gets the round. so surely if his takedowns have been stuffed and the fight remains upright, he should lose the round?
(if he's not winning the striking exchanges)

current mma scoring is just stupid. it's supposed to be a mix of martial arts, yet if you score a wrestling takedown that trumps everything else, even successful strikes.
it seems to me that the current way scores are awarded is designed to give american wrestlers an advantage, as well as the way the rules are configured. and it enrages me when i see a fighter robbed of a well deserved victory, like little nog and the dude who beat the crap out of sean sherk were on saturday night


----------



## elbows (Sep 27, 2010)

I didnt watch UFC 119, couldnt be bothered to stay up for the fairly uninspiring lineup.

I would not characterise the judging/scoring problem as being just about takedowns. Theres a problem or two with the way the points system is handled in practice, but the problem we usually see is just generally shit judging which goes wrong in any number of different ways. eg the time Machida (spelling?) won because at least one judge didnt seem to think that leg kicks should count.

There is a perception that if you get someone to the ground and remain on top then that matters perhaps more than it should, especially as some can do good damage from the bottom. But a lot of the bad judging Ive seen in recent years hasnt been due to that.

One thing that does seem to have changed a bit just in the last year is that UFC refs seem to be more sentive to the fight being perceived as boring, and are quicker to stand people up or separate them if there is not enough action, or at the very least they are quicker to start warning the fighters that they must do something.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 28, 2010)

futha said:


> I enjoyed the Reid Watson fight. Very entertaining.


 
Reid made the perfect title defence stooge. 

Took loads n loads of heavy hits without going down but was never going to win over 5 rounds.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 28, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Reid made the perfect title defence stooge.
> 
> Took loads n loads of heavy hits without going down but was never going to win over 5 rounds.


 
i thought it was reids fitness or lack of it that let him down, if he had of worked properly on his cardio i think he would have won


----------



## Fruitloop (Sep 28, 2010)

Reid is the human punchbag. I saw a bit of that 'Alex Reid, the fight of his life' thing on telly, and his humilation at the hands of Roger Gracie was embarassing to watch.


----------



## gavman (Sep 29, 2010)

i fail to understand how anyone who takes mma seriously can watch him. the bloke's a disgrace, a failure and a cheat and the only reason he got the fight was that he's jordan's boyfriend.
hardcore mma, indeed. 
the fact that it's carried on itv2 (aka the katie price channel) tells you all you need to know


----------



## Gromit (Sep 29, 2010)

Deareg said:


> i thought it was reids fitness or lack of it that let him down, if he had of worked properly on his cardio i think he would have won


 
It did. Something a real MMA fighter wouldn't let happen.

Obviously the trainer knew his cardio was rubbish so the gameplan wasn't your normal MMA strategy of a chessmatch over 5 rounds.

Instead it was put everything you've got into the first two rounds and pray for a knockout. The rest of the fight was hang on, pray for a miracle and save as much face as possible.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 29, 2010)

Gromit said:


> It did. Something a real MMA fighter wouldn't let happen.
> 
> Obviously the trainer knew his cardio was rubbish so the gameplan wasn't your normal MMA strategy of a chessmatch over 5 rounds.
> 
> Instead it was put everything you've got into the first two rounds and pray for a knockout. The rest of the fight was hang on, pray for a miracle and save as much face as possible.


 
i think you are being a little bit harsh, i have seen bj penn go into a few of his fights obviously not fit enough, i am not a fan of reid and initially only started watching the build up series by chance when flicking around bored one night, but i feel credit is due to the fact that he took a beating for almost 4 rounds but stuck in there and i don't think he was just trying to hang on as he went on the attack whenever he could force an opening


----------



## gavman (Oct 3, 2010)

well after reading your comments i watched the repeat. 
fair play, he had a go, but still managed to look, and perform, like a bodybuilder in the cage. reid now advances to 8 wins, 9 defeats, 1 nc

i thought the power punching welshman v james zikhic was far more interesting. zikhic always looks awkward, but is one of the toughest blokes to put away in uk mma, and he just got blown away. superb


----------



## The Groke (Oct 11, 2010)

So, predictions for 120?

*Bisping/Akiyama* = decision in favour of* Bisping*. The more I thought about it, the more difficult it became. I don’t think Bisping has the ground game to sub Akiyama and we know that Akiyama has an impressive chin from that Leben fight. Given that he can also knock folk out, I am going to call it a decision in Bisping’s favour….though I could be swayed!

*Hardy/Condit* = TKO/KO for *Hardy*. Hopefully Hardy has come back stronger from the close call against GSP and will put Condit out. 

*Hathaway/Pyle* =  I am going with my heart and calling a decision for *Hathaway*. I really like the guy, thought he looked great in his last fight, especially when considering his youth and inexperience. If he has continued to improve from his last performance, his conditioning could well carry it. I am not going to be putting money on it though… 

*Kongo/Browne* = *Kongo* by TKO/KO. I don’t know much about Browne at all, but maybe we will see an upset..? Money's still on Kongo.

*Wilks/Patrick* = Submission win for *Patrick*. Wilks is decent enough, but I just don’t think he has that edge/killer instinct to compete any higher in the UFC and he won't win this. Would like to be proven wrong, but Patrick for me.


----------



## gavman (Oct 13, 2010)

definitely sticking your neck out there!
fair play


----------



## The Groke (Oct 14, 2010)

gavman said:


> definitely sticking your neck out there!
> fair play


 
Heh - a mate and I have been running a "picks" sheet/league and keeping score...bonus points for getting the fighter and the method.

Our low scores either say something about our knowledge or the nature of the sport - often isn't unusual to get the victor right, but predicting the finish as well is a real gamble.

Oh well - I have been very wrong before, so we shall see! Looking forward to the event anyway.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2010)

Im no good at predictions at all, just enjoy watching. At leas tthis weekends show is on at a sensible time for UK folks. The following show is of more interest to me though.


----------



## The Boy (Oct 14, 2010)

Sexyama to beat Bisping.

Hardy will prob win, although I can't really stand him so hope not.

Kongo to lose by arm bar.

Hathaway to win.  

If any of the above are correct then it would be a first.


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2010)

Anyone watching it? I wont do spoilers but I will say that Kongo has pissed me off.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 16, 2010)

elbows said:


> Anyone watching it? I wont do spoilers but I will say that Kongo has pissed me off.



Yes and yes, me too!


----------



## The Groke (Oct 16, 2010)

Oh FFS


----------



## futha (Oct 16, 2010)

anyone got a link to a stream?

edit: or is it over now?


----------



## The Groke (Oct 16, 2010)

Done!

You will have to wait for the torrent now.


----------



## futha (Oct 16, 2010)

ahh, will do


----------



## The Groke (Oct 16, 2010)

Pretty good fights.

I won't say any more on the results for now!


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2010)

All I can say without spoiling anything is that I did not expect to hear about one of the UKs 'top soaps' Hollyoaks tonight, but I did.


----------



## gavman (Oct 17, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Yes and yes, me too!


 
correct result though. that judge's decision gave me hope....quite what joe rogon was talking about when he said that the takedown, just before the end of the round, should outweigh all the damage one fighter did to the other in the same round. fucking ludicrous. i like joe, but sometimes he does talk shite...and still the ufc don't have a commentator who understands striking


----------



## The Boy (Oct 23, 2010)

Predictions for tonight?

I'm hoping Cain does Brock, but that's just me and I'm kinda pissed atm.  Anyway, shall be watching tomorrow night so nae spoilers and that, eh?


----------



## elbows (Oct 24, 2010)

No predictions from me, am looking forward to it, will watch it live but will avoid spoilers. OK just one - Brock seems to have a beard, well he did at the weigh-ins anyway.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 24, 2010)

Spoiler: title fight



_Owned_.

I really enjoyed watching Lesnar's face get burst.






(not a great event all told - Deigo/Thiago was Ok but the headliner made up for it)


----------



## The Boy (Oct 25, 2010)

That was a pretty crap night of fights.  

Shields looked absolutely puggled.  Did he have trouble making weight or something?  

Diego/Alves fight had some cracking moments, but meh.



Spoiler: title fight



Was that really a great surprise though?  I mean, Carwin had Brock beaten, but blew it by losing his cool and gassing.

Anyway, Cain/JDS should be a cracker


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 27, 2010)

I was glad to see Valesquez demolish Brock. The Sanchez fight was decent too.

At the moment, I'm being impressed by Bellator. Had some great fights and showcasing some categories which aren't seen much elsewhere.

the WEC is still currently the best org. around though


----------



## elbows (Oct 27, 2010)

The Boy said:


> TDid he have trouble making weight or something?


 
Yes he had lots of trouble and apparently looked really awful on weigh-in day. Likely wont be such a factor next time around.


----------



## elbows (Oct 28, 2010)

gawkrodger said:


> the WEC is still currently the best org. around though


 
Funny you should say that, its just been announced that WEC will be fully merged into UFC after the December show!


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 29, 2010)

yes, huge news!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Nov 2, 2010)

ooo boy No 2 won his first cage match last week! by submission! twas very


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2010)

Im suffering from UFC show overload again, last weeks one was nothing special, though Im looking forward to a couple of the fights tonight and will try to stay up for it. I want to see what Machida has left.


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 21, 2010)

123 was a good event


----------



## al (Dec 8, 2010)

So, GSP v Koscheck this Saturday, any predictions?


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 8, 2010)

I still have yet to see another MMA fighter who has the destructive kicking ability of Mirko 'Cro Cop' Filipovic, IMHO. Filipovic is actually a copper in his native Croatia, which probably means it's usually fairly quiet wherever he's stationed:


----------



## al (Dec 12, 2010)

seen this?

http://www.everythingon.tv/channel/view/espn-9


----------



## al (Dec 14, 2010)

anyone watch the GSP fight? thought it was pretty good, Koscheck looked hopelessly outclassed, you could tell GSP had had some very serious boxing training from Freddie Roach and Koscheck's face at the end told the whole story. Jake Shields is up next they reckon and I imagine it'll be more of the same, his stand up is pretty poor and I imagine his advantage on the ground will be pretty slim...


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 14, 2010)

While I love to see a spectacular striking KO, throws can also be well worth waiting for:


----------



## futha (Dec 18, 2010)

wow!
http://www.mmatko.com/benson-henderson-vs-anthony-pettis-fight-video-wec-53/


----------



## futha (Dec 18, 2010)

here is another great recent fight.


----------



## al (Dec 18, 2010)

futha said:


> wow!
> http://www.mmatko.com/benson-henderson-vs-anthony-pettis-fight-video-wec-53/


 
I was just about to post that, what an incredible fight! I'd say it beats the Korean Zombie's one for fight of the year..

How about this for something to stick in your highlight reel, in the fifth round no less...


UFC is going to be pretty hot when the WEC comes onboard..


----------



## gawkrodger (Dec 18, 2010)

yes, definite contender for best kick landed in MMA history!


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 18, 2010)

gawkrodger said:


> yes, definite contender for best kick landed in MMA history!


 
Going back to the early days of UFC, here's Dutch Muay Thai fighter Orlando Weit giving American kickboxer Rober Lucarelli a definitive lesson in the power of that much underrated technique, the elbow strike. Of special interest is the downward crushing elbow delivered to the unfortunate Mr. Lucarelli about 30 seconds into the footage:


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 21, 2010)

In other news, I've just found out that the legendary Helio Gracie passed away some time ago. Helio Gracie (patriarch of the famous Gracie family, pioneers of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) held a record for the longest no-holds-barred fight ever, when he fought his former student Waldemar Santana for 3 hours and 42 minutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hélio_Gracie


----------



## elbows (Jan 4, 2011)

Chael Sonnen can add money laundering to his list of stupidity.

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=5986635


----------



## Pjotr (Jan 14, 2011)

Chael Sonnen is just great, I think they should let him do some real underground fighting from within the prison


----------



## elbows (Jan 15, 2011)

Lesnar is going to be one of the coaches on The Ultimate Fighter!

And before anyone complains that he will make a crap coach, there will be assistant coaches to do what Brock cant, and he is there to provide interest and entertainment and thus do a lot of business when he fights the opposing coach, which in this case is Junior Dos Santos.


----------



## The Boy (Jan 18, 2011)

Reckon Strikforce's heavyweight tourney is far more interesting sounding.


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 25, 2011)

Would Sir care to sample a freshly prepared spinning backfist?

Dinner is served...


----------



## PandaCola (Feb 3, 2011)

A new book about the UK MMA scene is coming out.

Bloody Revolution: A Journey into UK MMA. 

Info, an extract and video links to fights discussed in the book available on 
www.bloodyrevolution.wordpress.com

Before anyone asks- yes I did write it. I plead guilty to shameless plugging, but put up the defence that I think that an MMA book with a title that is a direct reference to the Crass song of a similar name will be of interest to readers of the Urban MMA thread.


----------



## sorearm (Feb 3, 2011)

christ that was a solid spinning backfist... *ouch*


----------



## elbows (Feb 3, 2011)

This Saturdays UFC card looks pretty stacked.


----------



## al (Feb 6, 2011)

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_UFC...derson_Silva_vs_Vitor_Be?vid=10016505&tid=100

Haven't watched the whole event yet, but from what I've seen it's been a pretty good card...


----------



## elbows (Feb 6, 2011)

I didnt enjoy the main card as much as I hoped I would, but the main event was funny.


----------



## elbows (Feb 13, 2011)

Huge news from the Strikeforce show, Im tempted to give spoilers as the level of MMA talk here seems to have fallen off a cliff recently, but I will keep my gob shut for now.


----------



## The Boy (Feb 13, 2011)

elbows said:


> Huge news from the Strikeforce show, Im tempted to give spoilers as the level of MMA talk here seems to have fallen off a cliff recently, but I will keep my gob shut for now.



To be fair it was a bit spoilerised anyway 

Not an expert but surprised by that....


----------



## Bakunin (Mar 6, 2011)

Good Strikeforce show on tonight. Very enjoyable so far.


----------



## alfajobrob (Mar 6, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> Good Strikeforce show on tonight. Very enjoyable so far.


 

Are you paying for primetime?


----------



## Bakunin (Mar 6, 2011)

alfajobrob said:


> Are you paying for primetime?


 
http://www.justin.tv/lattitude_sf#/w/934647440/4


----------



## alfajobrob (Mar 6, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> http://www.justin.tv/lattitude_sf#/w/934647440/4



Cheers fella, did you watch Sykes - Johannsen earlier, wasn't FOTY material, but a great bout!


----------



## Bakunin (Mar 6, 2011)

alfajobrob said:


> Cheers fella, did you watch Sykes - Johannsen earlier, wasn't FOTY material, but a great bout!


 
Didn't see Sykes - Johannsen. But I just saw Fedor Emelianenko stopped by Antonio 'Big Foot' Silva and Fedor publicly said that he's considering retirement. Which came as something of a shock.


----------



## alfajobrob (Mar 6, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> Didn't see Sykes - Johannsen. But I just saw Fedor Emelianenko stopped by Antonio 'Big Foot' Silva and Fedor publicly said that he's considering retirement. Which came as something of a shock.




 Fedor has done enough to be considered GOAT

I would like to see him beating the granny out of a UFC fighter for one last hurrah........but, if he retires then good, he didn't tap out against Silva and even tried to submit him at the end of the round after taking a savage beating......THE LAST EMPEROR.

Just a shame tbh...Overoid has to be the fav now!


----------



## Bakunin (Mar 7, 2011)

alfajobrob said:


> Fedor has done enough to be considered GOAT
> 
> I would like to see him beating the granny out of a UFC fighter for one last hurrah........but, if he retires then good, he didn't tap out against Silva and even tried to submit him at the end of the round after taking a savage beating......THE LAST EMPEROR.
> 
> Just a shame tbh...Overoid has to be the fav now!



I'd agree that Overoid will be the next big thing in MMA, and I'm hoping that Fedor was simply down about losing his fight and decides not to retire just yet. Personally, I rate Fedor as being right up there with Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock as an MMA legend, not a compliment I give lightly.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 16, 2011)

I saw that Fedor fight just now.
It's fuckin' sad but I have to remind myself he's been around for years. 
He should retire now.
And yep, Bakunin, he's up there.

But why have you included Ken in your list of MMA legends?

Shougun vs Jones - can't wait for that.

Also, bumped into this neat little fight on youtube.
Have fun....


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2011)

I see that it was announced some days ago that UFC have bought Strikeforce.


----------



## Bakunin (Mar 18, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> I saw that Fedor fight just now.
> It's fuckin' sad but I have to remind myself he's been around for years.
> He should retire now.
> And yep, Bakunin, he's up there.
> ...


 
While we're discussing Fedoer, let's not forget his brother Aleksander, who seems in this clip ot have been keeping his opponent standing only by repeated use of Aleksander's fists to keep him upright:



I'd list Ken as an MMA legend because he was one of the pioneers of American MMA and also for his regularly fighting in Japan where he gained great success.


----------



## Bakunin (Mar 18, 2011)

sorearm said:


> christ that was a solid spinning backfist... *ouch*


 
Then you'll LOVE this spinning wheel kick to the head:


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 21, 2011)

Anyone see Shogun vs Jones?

Didn't expect that.
Jones is on another level man...


----------



## Deareg (Mar 21, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Anyone see Shogun vs Jones?
> 
> Didn't expect that.
> Jones is on another level man...


 
I expected him to win but never imagined that he would out class him so easily, was shocked in the build up when Rogan reckoned Shogun was the better striker, it is not often that he gets it so badly wrong. Jones looks like he is gonna dominate that division for a long time.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Mar 23, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I expected him to win but never imagined that he would out class him so easily, was shocked in the build up when Rogan reckoned Shogun was the better striker, it is not often that he gets it so badly wrong. Jones looks like he is gonna dominate that division for a long time.


 
Jones is okay to watch. Still at 23, he has so much to learn.
For such limitations, he's quite an intelligent fighter.
Stops others from playing their game.
Shogun was his first real test. And he did amazing.

Evans next...


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 24, 2011)

Was looking at some old Dieselnoi fights on YouTube the other night. 

Back in the early 80's he absolutely slaughtered various full-contact fighters, retiring undefeated because no other Thais would fight him after a few years at the top. 

Would have been interesting to see what he'd do with the current crop of MMA lightweights.

"Eat the knee baby ... "


----------



## Deareg (Mar 29, 2011)

Does anyone know which channel season 13 of TUF is being shown on?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 5, 2011)

song ID

    on the UFC 94 dvd, St Pierre V Penn 2 ,the rap song that is playing goes

    "were taking over , were taking back, something something are you ready attack
    were taking over , were taking back ,something something are you ready attack
    were taking over , were taking back,something something are you ready attack

    are you ready for the riot (?)

    I hear these voices in my head and i just cant keep them quiet.
    warriors marching and wish that i was dreaming but im not
    ready to make yuor blood clot ."

    anyone know who/what this is please ?


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 5, 2011)

And here, for the more brutally inclined, is some class KO porn from K1:



Watch and wince, people.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 8, 2011)

does anyone know if there is any life down stream/torrent of the Strikeforce Diaz vs. Daley fight tomorrow?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 9, 2011)

anyone?


----------



## gavman (Apr 12, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Does anyone know which channel season 13 of TUF is being shown on?


 

espn, squire


----------



## gavman (Apr 12, 2011)

tumultuous times indeed. and i only stepped out for a mo
shame about fedor and strikeforce, but whatabout jon jones?
sensational demolition of shogun. was kinda hard to watch as a shogun fan...i bet he's still hurting now.


 anderson silva v jones......?


----------



## al (Apr 12, 2011)

gavman said:


> anderson silva v jones......?



Maybe, but it'll be Silva v GSP before that and I'm not sure that if Silva lost he'd continue..


----------



## Deareg (Apr 13, 2011)

gavman said:


> espn, squire


 
Thanks mate, I caught it by chance last week, would have been gutted to have missed it as they have not been repeated.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 15, 2011)

cauliflower ear

    ok so this takes a while to get bad enough to have to have it syringed etc....is there anything to do to slow down its build up? obviously wearing head gear but would applying something like arnica cream each day assisit in preventing the blood build up?

    thanks


----------



## Structaural (Apr 15, 2011)

They were playing some old  K1 KOs on dutch eurosport last night - this fight was funny:



Timberrrrrrr!


----------



## gavman (Apr 16, 2011)

ice-is-forming said:


> cauliflower ear
> 
> ok so this takes a while to get bad enough to have to have it syringed etc....is there anything to do to slow down its build up? obviously wearing head gear but would applying something like arnica cream each day assisit in preventing the blood build up?
> 
> thanks


 
don't you have to syringe them before they build up and turn hard?


----------



## gavman (Apr 16, 2011)

Structaural said:


> They were playing some old  K1 KOs on dutch eurosport last night - this fight was funny:
> 
> 
> 
> Timberrrrrrr!





that was the best fight of the night by far...

changing the subject, is there a future for dan hardy in mma?
he looked shot to bits and clueless against anthony johnson, and now strikeforce has been taken over and adopted elbow strikes on the ground, where else can he go?
bamma?


----------



## Deareg (Apr 16, 2011)

gavman said:


> that was the best fight of the night by far...
> 
> changing the subject, is there a future for dan hardy in mma?
> he looked shot to bits and clueless against anthony johnson, and now strikeforce has been taken over and adopted elbow strikes on the ground, where else can he go?
> bamma?


 
Has he been cut by the UFC?


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 17, 2011)

Structaural said:


> They were playing some old  K1 KOs on dutch eurosport last night - this fight was funny:
> 
> 
> 
> Timberrrrrrr!




Speaking of kicking KO's, here's a prime example of why getting cocky and lowering your guard, even when you've already hurt your opponent, is never a good idea...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 17, 2011)

gavman said:


> don't you have to syringe them before they build up and turn hard?


 
so syringe them asap?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 17, 2011)

7.14 minutes in, thats my mate greg winning with a rear naked choke..the bloke that runs in to pick him up and congratulate him is  my boys trainer.

that bloody shindo gym is full of nutters tho !!!


----------



## gavman (Apr 26, 2011)

ice-is-forming said:


> so syringe them asap?



yes..but you'll need someone else's help
(and a clean needle)


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 1, 2011)

so................

did anyone else cry when Couture finalised his retirement?
And Lyoto with his emotional speech about the legend?

(I did)....


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 1, 2011)

And the GSP fight...Anyone see this?

I was surprised on how psychologically vulnerable GSP was with his eye.
And how over anxious he gets...


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 2, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> so................
> 
> did anyone else cry when Couture finalised his retirement?
> And Lyoto with his emotional speech about the legend?
> ...



maaaybe

tbf gsp did say at the end that even tho his eye wasn't closed up he couldn't see anything out of it and he thought it was scratched on the eyeball _and _that corner man/trainer (i'v forgotten his name) he had always does that 'breathe' thing but yeah it did make gsp look stressed


----------



## The Boy (May 2, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> And the GSP fight...Anyone see this?
> 
> I was surprised on how psychologically vulnerable GSP was with his eye.
> And how over anxious he gets...


 
I actually thought Shields' body language was all wrong.  Looked out of his depth on the walk-out and the first couple of rounds.  GSP did look a bit cagey in the later rounds, but if he couldn't see out of one eye then that's kind of understandable.

Hominik's head


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 2, 2011)

The Boy said:


> Hominik's head


 






Timmmmmy!!

Yeah I just watched GSP's post-match announcement.
He knows it was a piss-poor fight...
(And that Chuck Liddell overhand right he kept throwing - it was effective as a handbag punch you'll see in a catfight).

Perhaps it was the eye...Looks like he's either going to fight Diaz or move up a weight to for Anderson Silva.


Shields didn


----------



## gavman (May 3, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> And the GSP fight...Anyone see this?
> 
> I was surprised on how psychologically vulnerable GSP was with his eye.
> And how over anxious he gets...


 
he's an athlete, not a warrior
as soon as things aren't going his way, he wants out. i thought it was a terrible fight, yet another gsp anticlimax
(although the rest of the card made up for it)

when was the last time we saw him in an entertaining fight?
he just plays to the judges and burgles decisions. and he didn't seem too keen at the prospect of taking on anderson silva, did he?

as for randy..glad to see the back of him. nice bloke, but another boring wrestler who can't finish a fight. hopefully he'll take up commentary.....hopefully moving out that twat who does the ufc with joe rogon
should we really have to spend time in the company of a cliche-ridden cretin like mike goldberg just because we enjoy mma?

thought the aldo / hominich fight was sensational...that last round was a two pointer for hominick, imo


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 4, 2011)

gavman said:


> he's an athlete, not a warrior
> as soon as things aren't going his way, he wants out. i thought it was a terrible fight, yet another gsp anticlimax
> (although the rest of the card made up for it)
> 
> ...


 
Agree with you on the Aldo/ Hominick fight. 
It was a bit like Rocky I...

Did you see the GSP/ Kosheck number 2 bout? 
I thought GSP displayed alot of class in that one. 
Yes, he does lack that killer instinct. When he rocks his opponent, he still stands back in case it upsets his game-plan.
In boxing terms, he's like Holyfield in the 90s.

Anderson Silva vs GSP - I think that's the kind of test he needs...

Randy isn't boring! It's just he's old and the game has changed.
That breed is dying (and for the good of the sport).

What's pissing me off is Takanori Gomi.
He peaked in Pride and is a shadow of his former self in the UFC...
Wish guys like that quit when they're ahead (like Genki Sudo).


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 5, 2011)

boy 3 is finally stepping into the cage in a weeks time! well hopefully, so far he has maybe broken a finger and done something dodgy to his knee during fight training..we get he xray/ultrosound results back tomorrow


----------



## Structaural (May 9, 2011)

The Man Hominik a couple of days later:


----------



## al (May 28, 2011)

So - UFC130 - does anyone care? It's not really a ball grabbingly exciting card:

    Middleweight bout: United States Brian Stann vs. Brazil Jorge Santiago[1]

    Welterweight bout: Brazil Thiago Alves vs. United States Rick Story[1]

    Heavyweight bout: Netherlands Stefan Struve vs. United States Travis Browne[1]

    Heavyweight bout: United States Frank Mir vs. United States Roy Nelson[1]

    Light Heavyweight bout: United States Quinton Jackson vs. United States Matt Hamill[1]


The only person I'm really interested in there is Struve - I think he could have a big future ahead of him...


----------



## gavman (May 28, 2011)

i'm interested in the mir v nelson matchup.
i think they may cancel each other out on the ground, as big country holds a grappling win over mir
stand up might be more interesting though. mir is technically a very good boxer...he just can't take a punch
nelson not so technical, but tougher
i like roy nelson for this one

but
it does make you think that the talent pool at heavyweight is a bit shallow if these two are numbers 5 and 6 in the current rankings


----------



## al (May 29, 2011)

gavman said:


> nelson not so technical, but tougher
> i like roy nelson for this one



I don't know too much about their stand up but I know that despite his appearance 'Big Country' is quite an accomplished BJJ fighter. I agree with you about the HW division though, even when it's the big guns like Cain and Brock I don't really feel that excited about the fights...


----------



## al (May 29, 2011)

Oh well - Struve got KTFO, but he's only 23 - a few years time and he'll be the champ...


----------



## gavman (May 30, 2011)

the danger of making predictions....

strube almost got snapped in half by that superman punch..quite incredible. he was doing well up 'til then.
as for big country, i don't think i'm the only one who was surprised at how one-sided that was. he looked completely out of his depth....much like matt hammel

i thought the decision in the torres fight was incomprehensible, be interested to hear the opinion of any bjj guys?
 torres put on a clinic, bewildering mighty mouse, shifting from one sub to another, close to finishing several times, roughing him up, numerous sweeps....but got penalised for choosing bottom position.
how can that be right?
 it really fucks me off that the ufc judges see mma as a wrestling match first, striking a distant second with submission grappling last. yet you can't finish a fight by wrestling, just bore the shit out of everyone (except the meatheads chanting 'usa usa'.)
the ufc really is steering mma in the wrong direction. and now with the acquisition of strikeforce they have forced a change to their rules to allow elbow strikes on the ground and come in line with the wrestler - favouring ufc
it doesn't matter what happens with the other two as long as you keep position => retarded imo


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 30, 2011)

gavman said:


> i thought the decision in the torres fight was incomprehensible, be interested to hear the opinion of any bjj guys?
> torres put on a clinic, bewildering mighty mouse, shifting from one sub to another, close to finishing several times, roughing him up, numerous sweeps....but got penalised for choosing bottom position.
> how can that be right?


 
UFC favours striking/G n'p and as a spectator sport, they really want to cash in with a knock-out (I always liked the first round 10 min in Pride, it was a careful balance with no preference for the striker/ grappler).

For this reason, I thought Mighty Mouse deserved the win. 
He initiated the take-downs and knew precisely how the judges will score.
I know Torres did those awesome butterfly sweeps.
But for every submission attempt, Johnson escaped and even got Torres back once or twice.
tbf, Mighty Mouse's ground game was real good. He blocked all of Torres' moves and that armbar/ kimura block in the 3rd round - I don't think many would have escaped that. He had good technique...

If it was a BJJ match, Torres would have won for sure.


----------



## 100% masahiko (May 30, 2011)

...speaking of which, I thought Tibau vs Oliveira fight was technically suited for the UFC.
Tibau scored with numerous take-downs and that rear naked finish was very clever...


----------



## Structaural (May 31, 2011)

There were some surprisingly good fights on a poor card. For some reason I have no recollection of watching the Torres fight - something up with my copy I think. 
Man, Struve got knocked the fuck out! cheered me up for some reason (must be living here in Holland surrounded by giant dutchmen . 
Big Mullet was really out of shape, but man can he take a knee/punch/elbow, they need to just have a $100,000 if you can knock Nelson out prize... 
Here's someone knocking him out, well down for a bit: 

Sounds like Machilda is going to fight John Bones Jones next...


----------



## Structaural (May 31, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> ...speaking of which, I thought Tibau vs Oliveira fight was technically suited for the UFC.
> Tibau scored with numerous take-downs and that rear naked finish was very clever...


 
and so fast! Those lightweights...


----------



## elbows (May 31, 2011)

gavman said:


> it really fucks me off that the ufc judges see mma as a wrestling match first, striking a distant second with submission grappling last. yet you can't finish a fight by wrestling, just bore the shit out of everyone (except the meatheads chanting 'usa usa'.)


 
The UFC hates the terrible judging decisions as much as anyone else - they dont have control of the judges, the athletic commissions do. Main problems include the points system having some flaws, and some of the judges are just crap. Sometimes the poor judging can be down to wrestling issues but plenty of the crap decisions are based on striking etc.


----------



## gavman (Jun 1, 2011)

but to listen to official ufc commentator joe rogon, you could easily conclude that they want to take mma scoring further down that road (of favouring position over damage). often i find i agree with judge's decisions he disagrees with, and vice versa. and he complains bitterly every time a fight gets stood up for lack of action, something i would like to see more of.


----------



## gavman (Jun 1, 2011)

Structaural said:


> There were some surprisingly good fights on a poor card. For some reason I have no recollection of watching the Torres fight - something up with my copy I think.
> Man, Struve got knocked the fuck out! cheered me up for some reason (must be living here in Holland surrounded by giant dutchmen .
> Big Mullet was really out of shape, but man can he take a knee/punch/elbow, they need to just have a $100,000 if you can knock Nelson out prize...
> Here's someone knocking him out, well down for a bit:
> ...




torres was on the undercard


----------



## Structaural (Jun 1, 2011)

TUF 14 will be Mayhem vs Bisping. Should be one of the more entertaining ones: http://www.mmamania.com/2011/5/27/2...f-14-coaches-michael-bisping-and-jason-mayhem


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## Structaural (Jun 1, 2011)

gavman said:


> torres was on the undercard


 
Yeah he's on neither of the usenet uploads - nor is the Kendall fight - trying to find the Preliminary fights today.


----------



## gavman (Jun 1, 2011)

kendal's fight was forgettable, tbh


----------



## al (Jun 2, 2011)

So gsp v nick diaz for UFC 137 in October, could be a corker...


----------



## gavman (Jun 2, 2011)

i can't get too excited about that. diaz's wrestling is shit, he was getting ragdolled by karo parisyan, and although his bjj is good, it's no better than jake shields'.
bisping v mayhem on tuf however, that could be more interesting....


----------



## Structaural (Jun 7, 2011)

al said:


> So gsp v nick diaz for UFC 137 in October, could be a corker...


 
I agree with Gavman, GSP is too good at going for your weaknesses, he'll just wrestle Diaz. And I don't think Diaz's BBJ is as good as Jake Shields (who lets face it, never got to use it).

I want to see him fight Anderson Silva...

Good article by Bas Rutter about layin' and prayin':
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/330512/Bas-Lay-n-Pray-should-count-against-a-fighter/


----------



## gavman (Jun 7, 2011)

i guess it's safe to talk about tuf finale now?
wasn't it desperate?
the one truly superb fight was marred by the wrong decision, kyle kingsbury versus some dude from eastern europe at lhw. when you saw the two them it looked at complete mismatch; kingsbury is a 6.4 physical specimen, and his opponent looked out of shape and like he could make 185 with a bit of effort.
 fight starts and kingsbury comes out like a train, gets the plum and delivers a devastating knee attack....which yer man mainly takes on the arms. he does this again a couple of times, to a great roar from the crowd, but again yer man keeps cool, blocks and starts throwing body shots while in the plum. kingsbury quickly disengages and looks hurt...all the time the east european dude looks as though he is fighting in slow motion....really ponderous...but then, on the outside, he suddenly closes range and catches kingsbury with some lightening quick hand combos, again the big dude looks troubled, tries again for a takedown, gets it but is instantly reversed with stunning technique by his opponent, who trains bjj with the nogueira bros, the sweep specialists, and has a strong background in boxing. no kidding
 so you have this unlikely battle between a behemoth and an apparent plodder, with the steadiness, nerve and technique of the plodder being more than a match for the strength of the adonis. i won't tell you what happened, but his name was fabio maldonado, and i'm now a big fan


----------



## gavman (Jun 7, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Good article by Bas Rutter about layin' and prayin':
> http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/330512/Bas-Lay-n-Pray-should-count-against-a-fighter/


 
it seems evem mma live agreed with my scoring of the torres - johnson fight


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## gavman (Jun 7, 2011)

i couldn't agree more with what bas is saying. if you take a fight to the ground, but don't achieve anything, you shouldn't get any credit for the takedown


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## Structaural (Jun 10, 2011)

gavman said:


> i guess it's safe to talk about tuf finale now?
> wasn't it desperate?
> the one truly superb fight was marred by the wrong decision, kyle kingsbury versus some dude from eastern europe at lhw. when you saw the two them it looked at complete mismatch; kingsbury is a 6.4 physical specimen, and his opponent looked out of shape and like he could make 185 with a bit of effort.
> fight starts and kingsbury comes out like a train, gets the plum and delivers a devastating knee attack....which yer man mainly takes on the arms. he does this again a couple of times, to a great roar from the crowd, but again yer man keeps cool, blocks and starts throwing body shots while in the plum. kingsbury quickly disengages and looks hurt...all the time the east european dude looks as though he is fighting in slow motion....really ponderous...but then, on the outside, he suddenly closes range and catches kingsbury with some lightening quick hand combos, again the big dude looks troubled, tries again for a takedown, gets it but is instantly reversed with stunning technique by his opponent, who trains bjj with the nogueira bros, the sweep specialists, and has a strong background in boxing. no kidding
> so you have this unlikely battle between a behemoth and an apparent plodder, with the steadiness, nerve and technique of the plodder being more than a match for the strength of the adonis. i won't tell you what happened, but his name was fabio maldonado, and i'm now a big fan


 
SPOILER!

Finally got round to watching this last night. I agree entirely, that guy was mad tough with some devastating punches (ex-boxer they said, I think) and superb TDD, I couldn't work out why Kingsbury got the decision, I guess it was those knees.


----------



## gavman (Jun 11, 2011)

ahh yes, sorry. saw this was repeated later during the week. they don't have this trub on the footie forum

still tonight, junior dos santos v shane carwin. looks like a tougher ask for junior than fighting lesnar; carwin much more well rounded, and he seems to have lost a massive amount of weight after gassing against lesnar....so c'mon guys, stick your necks out and make a prediction...

i'm going with dos santos


----------



## elbows (Jun 11, 2011)

Carwin is an unknown entity at that weight, we dont know if it will help him to last longer or how much it may diminish his power. Plus he has had some serious issues with his spine/neck.

So I will have to err on the side of caution and go with Dos Santos.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 12, 2011)

Not a prediction, I just want Dos Santos to win. What time was it on - still hasn't appeared on usenet...


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## elbows (Jun 12, 2011)

The main program was on from 2am-5am.


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## gavman (Jun 12, 2011)

i can strongly recommend everyone watch it, if poss. one of the best cards in recent memories, not even anything for me to bitch about!!

*makes mental note not to whinge about judges decisions or idiot commentators any more. just the excessive advertising*


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 13, 2011)

Dos Santos/ Carwin fight was a waste of time. 
Should have finished in the first cos the next two rounds were boring as hell.

(I can't believe they're going to make all UFC fights 5-rounders.
Stupid decision...)

The Herman/ Olav fight was best one of the night.


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> (I can't believe they're going to make all UFC fights 5-rounders.
> Stupid decision...)


 
Only main events.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 13, 2011)

Oh I thought it was all the fights.
That's okay then...makes up for the championship bouts I guess.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 15, 2011)

That was one of the best night's fighting I've seen in a long while...


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## 100% masahiko (Jun 15, 2011)

better than ufc 129?


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## Structaural (Jun 15, 2011)

I reckon I enjoyed it more, yeah, every fight was a corker (I'm a kickboxer so it's probably my bias, but there was some actual good stand-up for a change, rather than two wrestlers doing shitty stand-up).


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 15, 2011)

Cowboy Cerrone fight/ Roch fight demonstrated the uselessness of a BJJ opponent without a decent stand-up game.
And that not all fights 'end up on the ground.'

And also Munoz was plain awesome. 
Was clearly lost in the 1st but turned it around in the 2nd and 3rd.
(such a nice guy too).


----------



## gavman (Jun 15, 2011)

Structaural said:


> I reckon I enjoyed it more, yeah, every fight was a corker (I'm a kickboxer so it's probably my bias, but there was some actual good stand-up for a change, rather than two wrestlers doing shitty stand-up).


 
this. i was just loving the stand up


----------



## Structaural (Jun 17, 2011)

The reason Florian got booed so much was that he wore a Boston Bruin's top at the weigh-in.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 17, 2011)

Good Gracie break-down of the Munro fight and a few others from UFC 131:


----------



## Structaural (Jun 20, 2011)

Here's a comedy recap of the Overeem Werdum fight (spoiler):
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjefbp_theflop-werdum-hl_sport#from=embed


----------



## gavman (Jun 21, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Good Gracie break-down of the Munro fight and a few others from UFC 131:


 
nice one. that's really informative. i'll have to keep an eye out for their post-fight analysis in future.
would have liked to see what they had to say about brad pickett's peruvian necktie in his ufc debut...best sub i've seen in a while


----------



## gavman (Jun 21, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Here's a comedy recap of the Overeem Werdum fight (spoiler):
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjefbp_theflop-werdum-hl_sport#from=embed


 
good grief, that looked utterly pitiful. there's no way i was ppv'ing a card as lame as that, and from those 'highlight's' i'm really glad i didn't


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 24, 2011)

2 of my sons were graded in bjj by Daniel Lima this evening! what a powerful little man! tomorrow they have a 5 hour, no gi, workshop with him too, what an honor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lima


----------



## gavman (Jun 24, 2011)

well done to the lads. and no gi is the way to go


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## gavman (Jun 27, 2011)

fucking hell...i think that was the best finish to a fight i've ever seen
the card was swag generally, but the main event was cocking sensational
it's no spoiler to say i don't think either fighter had any idea what had happened, as the ref took their hands for the decision.
 speaking of which, probably the best piece of refereeing in memory

fuckfuckfuck really want to talk about this. watch it, it's a gud'un


----------



## Structaural (Jun 27, 2011)

Strikeforce?


----------



## gavman (Jun 27, 2011)

no, last night's ufc. the fight to see is chieck kongo v pat barry


----------



## Structaural (Jun 28, 2011)

gavman said:


> fucking hell...i think that was the best finish to a fight i've ever seen
> the card was swag generally, but the main event was cocking sensational
> it's no spoiler to say i don't think either fighter had any idea what had happened, as the ref took their hands for the decision.
> speaking of which, probably the best piece of refereeing in memory
> ...


 
That was stunning!..

I can say no more than that, speechless! at the mo' - your post above says it all... blimey... 

(fight before weren't bad neither)


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 28, 2011)

gavman said:


> no, last night's ufc. the fight to see is chieck kongo v pat barry


 
When was this fuckin' on?
Man I missed it.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 28, 2011)

I didn't know about it either, it's out on torrent sites and usenet though...


----------



## gavman (Jun 29, 2011)

it was sunday night, so probably threw a lot of peeps


----------



## Structaural (Jun 30, 2011)

hehe Chuck Liddell:


----------



## Structaural (Jun 30, 2011)

A good highlight reel of José Aldo:


man, he's got dangerous stand-up, the lightweight equivalent of Anderson, I hadn't seen much of him before the Hominick fight...might have to go and track that Faber fight down...


----------



## elbows (Jun 30, 2011)

gavman said:


> it was sunday night, so probably threw a lot of peeps


 
Yeah and it was shown on the Versus channel in the USA, so it wasnt part of the pay-per-view & spike tv special schedule that people are well used to.

Anyway I missed the show, but really want to track it down when I have time, reports of that fight that are all over the net have sold it to me big time.


----------



## elbows (Jun 30, 2011)

Structaural said:


> hehe Chuck Liddell:


 
Quality 

I first started watching MMA because someone got my interest by talking up the great legend of Liddell, who had been on a huge winning streak at the time. But my timing was well off because he suffered the defeat that signalled the beginning of the end for him on the very first show I watched.

I found plenty else to enjoy instead, but in the last ear or so I've lost a bit of interest because so many seemingly indestructible gods of mma have fallen. This has left me with not so many mega clashes to anticipate in future. There will still be loads of quality fights when the bell rings, but I really like getting into the pre-fight stories, hype etc. Once someone finally topples Anderson Silva I may have a little vacation from watching this sport, there are so many shows on these days I feel burnt out.


----------



## gavman (Jul 1, 2011)

Structaural said:


> hehe Chuck Liddell:


 
chuck liddel becomes choclate al?


----------



## gavman (Jul 1, 2011)

Structaural said:


> A good highlight reel of José Aldo:
> 
> 
> man, he's got dangerous stand-up, the lightweight equivalent of Anderson, I hadn't seen much of him before the Hominick fight...might have to go and track that Faber fight down...


 
do. it's a corker, and an object lesson in how a striker should fight a wrestler


----------



## Structaural (Jul 1, 2011)

elbows said:


> Yeah and it was shown on the Versus channel in the USA, so it wasnt part of the pay-per-view & spike tv special schedule that people are well used to.
> 
> Anyway I missed the show, but really want to track it down when I have time, reports of that fight that are all over the net have sold it to me big time.



I enjoyed every fight - some great grappling/bjj battles too....


----------



## gawkrodger (Jul 1, 2011)

going to have to post in this thread a lot more!

Anyone who posts on here actually train - MMA, BJJ, thai etc?


----------



## gavman (Jul 1, 2011)

.


----------



## al (Jul 2, 2011)

Structaural said:


> A good highlight reel of José Aldo:
> 
> man, he's got dangerous stand-up, the lightweight equivalent of Anderson, I hadn't seen much of him before the Hominick fight...might have to go and track that Faber fight down...



You really should - what he does to Faber's legs throughout the fight is just brutal...

here's Faber talking about it the next day....


----------



## Structaural (Jul 3, 2011)

Found WEC 48, watched it last night, brutal leg kicks. Respect to Faber for staying until the end, he's resilient, must be that huge chin 
Thought the fight with Garcia and Jong was unbelievable, never have I seen so many punches absorbed by both.


----------



## Kesher (Jul 3, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Give it all the names you like, it is still basically lawless brawling. Myself and the Maquis are not impressed. Not impressed at all.



Agree it's brawling. Give me professional boxing anyday


----------



## Structaural (Jul 3, 2011)

Off you trot then...


----------



## gavman (Jul 3, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Found WEC 48, watched it last night, brutal leg kicks. Respect to Faber for staying until the end, he's resilient, must be that huge chin
> Thought the fight with Garcia and Jong was unbelievable, never have I seen so many punches absorbed by both.


 
shocking decision though, don't you think?


----------



## gawkrodger (Jul 3, 2011)

UFC 132 = great event


----------



## The Boy (Jul 3, 2011)

gawkrodger said:


> UFC 132 = great event


 
yup.  Was struggling to stay awake, but glad I did.  Made up for a poor night's boxing.


----------



## gavman (Jul 4, 2011)

gavman said:


> shocking decision though, don't you think?


 
ah crap, broke my own promise.
that didn't take long


----------



## Structaural (Jul 6, 2011)

gavman said:


> shocking decision though, don't you think?


 
Yes it was, still we're getting used to those. Don't finish, expect to be robbed. Not that those guys didn't try to finish 

Good article on MMA and Boxing here: http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/07/03/ufc-132-morning-after-a-day-when-mma-knocked-out-boxing/

(I watched Haye's fight the other night whilst also popping out for fags and watching UFC 132 on my phone, godammn that Hayes fight was boring, but you got to respect the cardio over 12 rounds).

Another Pride legend falls (not that he was high up - but that's probably the last we'll see of The Axe Murderer). Disappointed in Faber but a cracking fight. I don't like Cruz for some reason so I hope he moves up to lightweight as bantamweight is a pretty boring division. Then Aldo can beat him up. Still got a few fights to watch...

Sonnen is fighting Machida next...btw


----------



## The Boy (Jul 6, 2011)

Structaural said:


> .
> 
> Sonnen is fighting Machida next...btw


 
no wai!?!?!?!

Another one I'll be staying up for.


----------



## gavman (Jul 6, 2011)

nate mauquardt has been sacked by the ufc, for the same offence sonnen was suspended for. shocking double standards


----------



## Structaural (Jul 7, 2011)

Yeah that is. 

I think all the dopers should be dropped. The only reason you need extra testosterone is for hypergonadism which none of these fuckers have. 'I was feeling a bit tired and the doctors 'discovered' I have low testosterone' - get to fuck!

Sonnen fighting Brian Stanns at UFC 136 now... I think Chael will win that...


----------



## Structaural (Jul 7, 2011)

The Boy said:


> no wai!?!?!?!
> 
> Another one I'll be staying up for.


 
must have just been a rumour...


----------



## elbows (Jul 7, 2011)

The latest on Sonnen is that his return fight will be on October 8th against Brian Stann.

As for hypergonadism, its conceivable that some of them may have this as a result of abusing certain steroids in the past, so you get this weird feedback loop where past illegal activities cause a health issue that can then be 'legitimately' treated.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 7, 2011)

The Gracies giving some full-mount get outs...

Anyone watched Bully Beatdown?, man that's funny. Probably fake setups but the fights look real enough...


----------



## Structaural (Jul 7, 2011)

elbows said:


> The latest on Sonnen is that his return fight will be on October 8th against Brian Stann.
> 
> As for hypergonadism, its conceivable that some of them may have this as a result of abusing certain steroids in the past, so you get this weird feedback loop where past illegal activities cause a health issue that can then be 'legitimately' treated.


 
There was a good article by a doctor about this on another MMA site - I'll see if I can track it down...


----------



## Structaural (Jul 7, 2011)

http://mmajunkie.com/news/24201/med...replacement-therapy-is-too-ripe-for-abuse.mma


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 7, 2011)

Saw chieck kongo v pat barry.

Strange occasion that. Very entertaining.


----------



## gavman (Jul 7, 2011)

elbows said:


> The latest on Sonnen is that his return fight will be on October 8th against Brian Stann.
> 
> As for hypergonadism, its conceivable that some of them may have this as a result of abusing certain steroids in the past, so you get this weird feedback loop where past illegal activities cause a health issue that can then be 'legitimately' treated.


 
the most recent consensus is hypergonadism indicates prior long-term steroid abuse. there's been a new ruling that marquardt fell foul of.
i'm sad to see him guilty of this- i've liked him ever since his sporting conduct in the damien maia fight. he seemed like one of the good guys, as it were


----------



## gavman (Jul 7, 2011)

elbows said:


> The latest on Sonnen is that his return fight will be on October 8th against Brian Stann.


 
it would take a brave man to bet against stann- he's the ufc's current 'all american' poster boy. if they're matching him against sonnen, imo it's because they think he will win and emerge as a superclean, all american. sonnen has wrapped himself in the flag, but as an advert for the american way falls far short of the ex-marine captain, brain stann


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## Structaural (Jul 8, 2011)

You could well be right. 

I can't say it's a fight I'm particularly excited about...


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## gavman (Jul 8, 2011)

he could become the new chris eubank. you watch to see him get punched. problem is, any fight he is winning is by definition boring; he's a grinder.
 a steroid enhanced grinder


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## Structaural (Jul 11, 2011)

init.

This is hard to watch, terrible reffing: 
and here's the crowd reaction:


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## Structaural (Jul 20, 2011)

bones and rampage press conference


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## al (Jul 27, 2011)

Structaural said:


> init.
> 
> This is hard to watch, terrible reffing:
> and here's the crowd reaction:



That's terrible - you can see she's out as soon as her legs drop and relax, probably before that even if the ref had bothered to be in the right position...

BTW - both those videos seem to be the same...


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## gavman (Aug 7, 2011)

dennis HALLMAN  NO !!

otherwise very nice 
watch it while you can


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## gavman (Aug 7, 2011)

btw i'm still in shock about fedor.
i haven't seen the whole fight, but apparently he was battering henderson, then got badly out of position and hendo capitalised.
but yet again henderson was landing his hardest shots on a clearly unconscious fighter. fedor showed bad eye damage after the fight and i think that was inflicted while he was out cold. hendo has a record for this, having previously done the same to wanderlai silva and michael bisping.
 i really do think there needs to be some sort of sanction for this unsporting conduct. if a fighter gets punished for cranking too long on a sub, so should they for continuing to strike an unconscious opponent. it's one of the least defensible aspects of our favourite sport.

 fedor needs to change camp, change his management...or retire. sad to say. his management have done a ricky hatton on him


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## 100% masahiko (Aug 8, 2011)

See for yourself Gavman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypkEKRHGt0I
Hendo does an amazing half-guard escape and gets Fedor in a dog-fight position (adv of back) to deliver a huge fuck-off blow.
Ref stops the fight, and Fedor rolls into guard. What you think? People forget how strong Hendo is. He's fuckin' awesome athlete and I rate him the same as Fedor.
Wanderlei Silva - man, would you take a chance against him? Think he did the right thing in that bout.
And Bisping is a twat. Deserved that flying punch when out cold.

Anyone watch the last UFC?
I use to hate Oritz but now I'm feeling sorry for him...(and secretly wanted him to win)


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## gavman (Aug 9, 2011)

tito is easy to hate, but my opinion of him changed after his defeat to randy couture. he took it like a man, and although i hate his fighting style, from that moment i respected him as a man. plus his stint as a coach on the ufc merited huge respect, especially when contrasted with his opponent, ken shamrock. tito really did come over as humble but motivated, and doing his best for his charges.

i'm still holding my peace on the latest ufc..other than dennis hallman's budgie smugglers 
 but it was a good'un


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## Structaural (Aug 15, 2011)

Lytle and Dan Hardy at UFC Versus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH1_ibO2Ojk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88jCaidRKwQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL


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## gavman (Aug 15, 2011)

what happened to the tv coverage of that?
it was nowhere to be found in the schedules..not even on ppv


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## gavman (Aug 15, 2011)

thanks for the link structural
i can't remember how to do the spoiler thingy. want to talk about the fight


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## gavman (Aug 15, 2011)

doesn't the splintered coverage makes it really hard to discuss mma fights?

with domestic sports you can talk about it when you most want to, right after the match. but to do so with mma is guaranteed to ruin many people's enjoyment of the event 'cos we all watch at different times


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## gavman (Aug 15, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> See for yourself Gavman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypkEKRHGt0I
> Hendo does an amazing half-guard escape and gets Fedor in a dog-fight position (adv of back) to deliver a huge fuck-off blow.
> Ref stops the fight, and Fedor rolls into guard. What you think? People forget how strong Hendo is. He's fuckin' awesome athlete and I rate him the same as Fedor.
> Wanderlei Silva - man, would you take a chance against him? Think he did the right thing in that bout.
> ...


i thought it was a very good fight. not something i usually find myself saying when rashad fights, but it was always going to different from his usual performances because he couldn't rely on his wrestling to burgle a judge's decision against tito. if anything tito is the stronger wrestler, rashad the better striker so maybe we'd get a fight.
and we did, a corker. i dislike watching grapplers fight strikers in the ufc because imo the rule system lets them burgle decisions. but when two wrestlers fight each other, it can be a lot of fun. the wrestling cancels out and they have to throw, which is exciting 'cos they tend to throw with big shots wit power but wide open, so plenty of knockdowns are usually on the cards

 however, despite all my sniffiness the winning strike was just superb, and will have made a big impression in more ways than one

we'll just have to agree to differ on the striking unconscious opponents issue. the reason i don't like it is the same reason i never liked head kicks to a downed opponent as in pride; i think it sets a really bad tone, and will result in worse behaviour in street fights. people mimic what they see the guys at the top doing, so imo there should be an emphasis on the sort of control synonomus with genuine martial arts.
to me this is baggage that came with the inclusion of freestyle wrestling, when a knockdown no longer caused the ref to intervene


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## gavman (Aug 15, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> See for yourself Gavman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypkEKRHGt0I
> Hendo does an amazing half-guard escape and gets Fedor in a dog-fight position (adv of back) to deliver a huge fuck-off blow.
> Ref stops the fight, and Fedor rolls into guard. What you think? People forget how strong Hendo is. He's fuckin' awesome athlete and I rate him the same as Fedor.


wow. what a fight.
fedor does seem a shadow of his former self, i think he's lost too much weight. i know hendo is a greco olympian, but fedor is a heavyweight sampo master and should've been able to break the clinch.
but his speed on the feet was still there and he had hendo badly hurt a couple of times.
however, you called it, that escape and strike combined (it really was one move, wasn't it?), just superb.
a genuinely new mma form / kata to add to the pure grappling and pure striking drills.

which brings to the question of training. i think it was mma live who said fedor was still with the same few training partners and hasn't evolved, and i'm much inclined to agree. the game's moved on and he hasn't.


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## Structaural (Aug 16, 2011)

All the Pride guys seem lackadaisical in the octagon, maybe the fact that you can be backed up against the cage rather than falling through the ropes is a factor...still I wanted Fedor to win that, maybe they need to start counting to ten like in boxing, Fedor is a notorious quick recoverer from a knock-out  But yeah amazing escape and knockout by Hendo..

I'm glad Rashad won, I quite like the guy. When is the Bones, Rampage fight?

Can't Lyrtle and Hardy take a punch? man, you don't see many people taking haymakers on the chin..

I hate those punches to a knocked-out opponent too - especially in light of 'chronic traumatic encephalopathy' that is caused by excessive concussions (suffered by american football players). Seems to happen in Strikeforce more than UFC...


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## Structaural (Aug 17, 2011)

Little bit of hype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY2fyBlhkzg&feature=player_embedded#at=568


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## elbows (Aug 18, 2011)

Every fighter goes past their prime eventually, and I suspect Fedor simply reached that point a while back, he has lost too many fights now for me to think anything else. Massive fans of his who got too comfortable with the idea that he was the best in the world will just have to come to terms with the passing of time, and the way Fedors management team operate, there may not be further opportunities to see him go up against many of the other greats that the sport currently has to offer. And I think some questions will always go unanswered, because he didn't start competing on the big US stage until he was already showing signs of being past his peak. I don't want to sound like I'm taking anything away from him in the days where he ruled, just saying that it no longer seems possible to do fair comparisons of his abilities vs the current generation of competitors, the timing was not quite right, and such questions will have to be left to eternal fantasy 'what if' debates, we'll never know for sure.

Shame the Strikeforce tournament went a bit pear shaped due to a pullout & management disputes, not that Overeem's last appearance in the tournament set the world on fire by all accounts, but he did win that fight.

The Versus show from Sunday was not shown on ESPN in the UK, I believe that UFC scrambled to find an alternative at the last minute, and it ended up being shown on some other sports satellite channel that normally can only be seen with a subscription but was switched to free viewing for the duration of the show. I didn't try to find it or watch myself though, so Im not 100% sure on this.

UFC is announcing a switch to a new TV partner stateside, Fox, a very long-term deal. I don't know if this will have any ramifications on UK viewing in future, but I wouldn't be surprised if the UFC makes a few changes over time at the behest of their new partners, though I won't hazard a guess as to what any of the changes will be yet.


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## Structaural (Aug 19, 2011)

I managed to find it on usenet (it was UFC Live show on the Versus cable channel), some cracking fights on there - I watched the rest of the card last night.

Looking forward to the Anderson Silva fight...


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## 100% masahiko (Aug 19, 2011)

elbows said:


> The Versus show from Sunday was not shown on ESPN in the UK, I believe that UFC scrambled to find an alternative at the last minute, and it ended up being shown on some other sports satellite channel that normally can only be seen with a subscription but was switched to free viewing for the duration of the show. I didn't try to find it or watch myself though, so Im not 100% sure on this.



This has happened a number of occasions and now I'm questioning my Virgin subscription...

Shame, one of my dream fights was Fedor vs Lesnar...


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## gavman (Aug 20, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> This has happened a number of occasions and now I'm questioning my Virgin subscription...
> 
> Shame, one of my dream fights was Fedor vs Lesnar...


innit?
like two irresistible forces, meeting in the middle. lesnar's bull rush is one of the most awe inspiring sights in mma, but i think fedor would turn him and would batter him on the feet


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## gavman (Aug 20, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Structaural said:
> 
> 
> > Can't Lyrtle and Hardy take a punch? man, you don't see many people taking haymakers on the chin..
> ...


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## Structaural (Aug 23, 2011)

An amusing Leben snippet with Anderson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myRaxbkJN64&feature=player_embedded


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## Structaural (Aug 24, 2011)

Another reason why some fighters did better in Pride then UFC, soccer kicks and stomps to the face:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebGspy3Yv0g uch:

MMA before weight-classes (and it seems in this clip - the octagon)- warning painful looking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8tVTuNZ3Zw


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## Structaural (Aug 25, 2011)

3 days to go!

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/8/2...anderson-silva-puts-on-a-show-against-forrest


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## Structaural (Aug 25, 2011)

That punch that Anderson Silva did against Griffin was Ali's 'anchor punch' that he knocked down Liston with. Here's Ali explaining it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPYPZc3vx3U 
and some footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx27t6lzIQ0


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## gavman (Aug 25, 2011)

it staggered me that some people thought that was a poor reflection on forrest. well people who don't understand striking anyhoo


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## gavman (Aug 25, 2011)

Structaural said:


> 3 days to go!
> 
> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/8/2...anderson-silva-puts-on-a-show-against-forrest


good analysis that.
my only disagreement is with the idea that it is bad form to throw while moving backwards that's a classic counterpunching technique


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## Structaural (Aug 25, 2011)

gavman said:


> it staggered me that some people thought that was a poor reflection on forrest. well people who don't understand striking anyhoo



I know, people saying he threw the fight and shit. Rubbish, Forest was moving forward pretty quick as well, he might not have been KOed but he was probably seeing stars and whiting out, he certainly would not have defended on the ground had Anderson gone for a ground and pound.

There's a brit fighting lightweight on Sunday too (Ross Pearson) - I doubt he'll win - up against a Brazillian Muy Thai expert on a winning streak (Barboza). But you never know...


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## gavman (Aug 26, 2011)

ross pearson is the english fighter i most enjoy watching. that sounds like the pick of the night...write pearson off at your peril!


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## Structaural (Aug 26, 2011)

excellent, I'd pay for this but no doubt it's probably on in the middle of the night


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## Structaural (Aug 26, 2011)

Security guard has had MMA training - the other guy has not: http://www.abc24.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=2783737

'first rule of fighting "keep your hands up"'

Goldie: 'unless you're Anderson Silva'

Joe: 'Okay, the first rule of fighting, "do not fight Anderson Silva"'


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## 100% masahiko (Aug 26, 2011)

Structaural said:


> There's a brit fighting lightweight on Sunday too (Ross Pearson) - I doubt he'll win - up against a Brazillian Muy Thai expert on a winning streak (Barboza). But you never know...



...that's the beauty of this sport.
Barboza is a natural, faster athlete.
But I want Pearson to win, not cos he's British and a Brickie, but cos he seems to be a genuinely nice guy.


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## gavman (Aug 27, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Security guard has had MMA training - the other guy has not: http://www.abc24.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=2783737
> 
> 'first rule of fighting "keep your hands up"'
> 
> ...


the lad had good form, didn't he?

'security guard had to visit his doctor'...for a busted hand, if anything

'the man was reported for harrassing women outside the club' . excellent! free fight, no repercussions


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## Deareg (Aug 27, 2011)

Does anyone know any links to watch the UFC tonight?


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## Structaural (Aug 29, 2011)

Spoiler: images



sums up that fight: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Really enjoyed the card, a great night - the Nog fight made me jump up and down. 
I'll wait until people have caught up...


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## 100% masahiko (Aug 29, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Spoiler: images
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Expected decision - he should have lost it first time round imo.

No shock results overall but a good event.
Can't wait for Jones vs Jackson!!!


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## gavman (Aug 29, 2011)

superb. maybe the best ufc ever. watch it if you can!

the perason / barboza fight was a cracker, just brilliant. think i've watched it half a dozen times now..and no complaints about the result. i had it one round each with the middle round even, but ufc judges don't tend to give even rounds so i really can't argue with their scoring. all i can say is both men emerged with great credit, and if you watch it ignore the commentary and score it for yourself; the commentators were too bust looking at their note and reading adverts to truly see what was going on with the striking.
i thought ross had the perfect tactics; edison was quicker but ross was faster.
what i mean is, individual strikes by barboza were quicker, but pearson was constantly moving and able to keep him under pressure with constant striking, changing angles, etc. the bit that impressed me most was actually when pearson was hurt; he managed to keep walking barboza down, keep the pressure on his opponent, while actually having a rest and clearing his head. class

so trying still not to give the result away, i think one of them is a future champion, and the other capable of beating him over five rounds
so setting up a storming future rematch for the title, i reckon?


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## gavman (Aug 29, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Expected decision - he should have lost it first time round imo.
> 
> No shock results overall but a good event.
> Can't wait for Jones vs Jackson!!!


good to see him back to devastating form though?

speaking of devastating form....griffin v shogun
i was shockedat how bad rua looked against jones, but he was a different fighter wasn't he?
could it be that he needs to lose to someone to get motivated? i'm beginning to think that.
either way,jones suddenly looks 'vincible' to me


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## Structaural (Aug 29, 2011)

I've still Barboza fight to watch, saving the best until last - shame I caught the outcome (bloody google)...


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## 100% masahiko (Aug 31, 2011)

gavman said:


> good to see him back to devastating form though?
> 
> speaking of devastating form....griffin v shogun
> i was shockedat how bad rua looked against jones, but he was a different fighter wasn't he?
> ...



Jones is so unpredictable isn't he? He's shot out of nowhere and creating waves - I can't fuckin' wait for the next UFC.
Griffin man, I really like, funny, odd sense of humour and I hate this shitty patch he's going through.
I also didn't want to see Schaub (awesome) go out like the way he did...


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## 100% masahiko (Aug 31, 2011)

Structaural said:


> I've still Barboza fight to watch, saving the best until last - shame I caught the outcome (bloody google)...



Pearson did the best he can.
It was just Barboza is so long and gangly with great footwork...


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## gavman (Aug 31, 2011)

i think if it had gone five rounds pearson would've prevailed. barboza looked uncomfortable at the pace and having to work so hard all the time, and when he tried to match the brit's tempo he began to look a bit disorganised.
the reason i'm so excited is i think he will go through the the division like a hot knife through butter, as long as he can deal with the grapplers. he reminds me a lot of jose aldo, but even more explosive


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## 100% masahiko (Aug 31, 2011)

gavman said:


> the reason i'm so excited is i think he will go through the the division like a hot knife through butter, as long as he can deal with the grapplers. he reminds me a lot of jose aldo, but even more explosive



Pearson or Barboza?


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## gavman (Sep 1, 2011)

barboza


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## Structaural (Sep 2, 2011)

Great fight with Pearson, he's a tough guy, man he ate some shots, his cardio is amazing. I just wish the UK guys trained a bit more take-downs and grappling. I think Aldo is better than Barboza though, seems faster and more consistent.

Interesting MMA insider here about the Okami/Silva fight with twat Sonnen not trash talking Andy for once:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6917032&categoryid=3461971


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## Structaural (Sep 2, 2011)

I re-watched Chael/Anderson last night, man they've got to give a rematch to Chael, He's the only one who has come close to winning (on points), though he never came close to finishing Anderson.
It would be very interesting to see them fight again with a fit Anderson and non-PEDed up Sonnen. I think I just want to see Chael get proper fucked up.


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## gavman (Sep 3, 2011)

amen to that

part of me thinks he shouldn't get another chance.
he was juiced, anderson had broken ribs before he even set foot in the ring, and he still got finished the way anderson promised to.

so with the doping, and the attempt to deny he had tapped
(he's got form for that)
i tend to think he's had more than his fair chance.
however
i'd love to see a fit anderson silva humiliate him.

seems to be one of those anomalies with us sports, the way they tolerate cheats and ped users in top flight competition


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## elbows (Sep 3, 2011)

I laughed so hard when Silva beat him the first time. And I thoroughly enjoyed Silva's performance the other week, I love physical comedy and Silva is pretty unique  Actually that show was good for other chuckles too, that guy with the slightly unreal body who inexplicably thought the fight was over in the first round, and the guy who was staggering in an amusing was when he was just about to met his doom in his match (forgotten names right now, sorry).

There is a lot of PED stuff in MMA, it pissed me off, especially as the ones who get caught only tend to do so because they made a mistake with their timing or whatever, the problem really goes way deeper than that  The idiot with the posing shorts who lost at the previous show had a totally different body to before for a start, but happily I think UFC cut him because of those shorts, and a UFC employee may have been fired for not stopping him going out in them.


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## gavman (Sep 3, 2011)

i think the ped issue comes about because of freestyle wrestling's adoption as a 'martial art'

the way you hear american commentators speak about wrestling training gives an insight. they say thing like 'you have to take ped's just to recover from practise'
which means you have to take ped's to compete now, because your freestyle wrestling opponent definitely will have done 

to me nate marquardt was an example of a martial artist who got beat by a steroid cheat, because of the extra fitness the cheat had, and so resorted to the same methods to be able to compete.

and taking additional testosterone supplements to compensate for a drop in tesosterone after long-term steroid use should absolutely be banned

as should employing cheats as pundits; i've tried to e-mail espn to complain about sonnen's constant appearances...but in order to e-mail espn, you have to register, give an obscene amount of personal information to the DISNEY CORP no less, and well, that was enough to stop me.
open myself up for a lifetime of data mining just register my views about sonnen ?
fuck that
but then you have to put up with that telegraph twat suck-up gareth davies saying that sonnen is brilliant and the uk will have to have events beginning at 3am if it wants to host future ufc's....what a fucking tard.

i reckon it's about time we had a uk-based mma discussion show.
then we won't have to tolerate the americans hatred of michael bisping just for beating them at their own game (trash talking), and then, unforgiveably, thrashing them in fair competition


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Sep 3, 2011)

Ueshiba doing Daito-Ryu (more or less, you might argue for Aiki-Jujutsu but it sure as fuck isn't post-WW2 Aikido), filmed by Takuma Hisa ... make of it what you will.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 6, 2011)




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## Structaural (Sep 6, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Ueshiba doing Daito-Ryu (more or less, you might argue for Aiki-Jujutsu but it sure as fuck isn't post-WW2 Aikido), filmed by Takuma Hisa ... make of it what you will.




Seems very choreographed, I can't see anything that looks like free sparring. Looks good against an opponent who keeps trying to slap you on the top of the head 

This sort of thing annoys me too - I could knock a man standing still with his arms down by his sides in about 9 different ways:


----------



## gavman (Sep 7, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Ueshiba doing Daito-Ryu (more or less, you might argue for Aiki-Jujutsu but it sure as fuck isn't post-WW2 Aikido), filmed by Takuma Hisa ... make of it what you will.



eerm....unconvincing


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 7, 2011)

Structaural said:


> This sort of thing annoys me too - I could knock a man standing still with his arms down by his sides in about 9 different ways:




This is no different to the Ninjitsu demos.
Utter balls.


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## Structaural (Sep 7, 2011)

init


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 7, 2011)

I'm very tempted to come up with my own bullshit demo and stick it on youtube.
We could call it 'Masahikoan' - a self-defence art form from Shaolin Monk refugees who escaped Mao in the 50s/60s  and travelled to Papua New Guinea to teach the deadly art to tribes, only for it to be remodified by CIA/ US Marine martial arts trainer - Chip West.

If we could get Masahikoan into a big movie like Batman (Keysi Fighting Method) or James Bond (Ninjitsu), we all could be fuckin' loaded.


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## Mungy (Sep 7, 2011)

i don't mind being the short fat bloke who gets the shit kicked out of him for a reasonable percentage


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Sep 7, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Seems very choreographed, I can't see anything that looks like free sparring. Looks good against an opponent who keeps trying to slap you on the top of the head
> 
> <snip>



Hmm that's an interesting response.

I'd totally agree that 'will it reliably work in a NHB match against a trained opponent?' is quite an important standard by which to judge martial arts, but I personally don't think it's the only valid one.

Sometime around the time when that film was made, Dr Kano, founder of Judo and the person largely responsible for introducing the idea of randori, or free practice, into Japanese martial arts, sent Tomiki one of his senior students, off to learn Aiki-JuJutsu or Daito-Ryu or whatever it was that Ueshiba was calling it back then.

I can't seem to find the relevant quote online but my recollection is that besides Kano's general tendency to want to get any of the teachers of older Ju Jitsu styles onside with his Kodokan project, he thought he was seeing some interesting advanced principles worth exploring further in Ueshiba/Takaeda's stuff. Having trained for a few years in various sorts of Aikistuff (as well as a great deal of Judo and a fair bit of Goju and other hitting-people styles), I'd tend to agree that there are interesting principles of a vaguely Derren Brown sort lurking in there. Certainly nothing that's as reliable as a fast left-hook or a clinch & knee kick, but by no means worthless or imaginary, especially for the sort of case where beating the living shit out of someone who is causing problems isn't necessarily the most desirable approach.

Kano was also looking for ways to do free practice with small-joint and spine locks safely (if you think the stuff in that movie looks chorographed and impractical, you ought to see some of the advanced Judo kata) and thought that by sending Tomiki off to learn Daito/Aiki he might figure that out, which the Tomiki Aikido people would probably claim he succeeded in doing (others might argue)

But it was by having that attitude of being willing to investigate anything that looked promising and then evaluating it critically using methods including but by no means limited to free practice, that Kano managed to put Judo together from the horrid mess of 19th C Japanese martial arts. From which base he sent Maeda out on his world tour fighting all comers and eventually training the Brazilians, who subsequently wrapped it up in their own bullshit branding and sold it on to the MMA community.

It's funny really.

After a couple of decades of arguing that most trad martial artists (at least the ones who weren't working nightclub doors or similar) were seriously deluded about the practical effectiveness of their styles, I now find myself in the opposite corner, trying to convince MMA kids that the trad martial arts aren't totally worthless.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Sep 7, 2011)

Try this one


----------



## Structaural (Sep 8, 2011)

Breaking news: Nick Diaz just screwed his fight with GSP, GSP fighting Carlos Condit now....


----------



## Mr Average (Sep 8, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Breaking news: Nick Diaz just screwed his fight with GSP, GSP fighting Carlos Condit now....


Maybe though, they can sort it by making Penn Versus Diaz.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 8, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Hmm that's an interesting response.
> 
> I'd totally agree that 'will it reliably work in a NHB match against a trained opponent?' is quite an important standard by which to judge martial arts, but I personally don't think it's the only valid one.
> 
> ...



Interesting.

I'm from trad martial arts and I love them, Karate as a teen, Chinese Boxing in my 20s, one of my best mates is a Judo blackbelt (in fact I'm learning Wing Chun at the mo - as a friend is training me for free in my garden, not a popular MA in MMA but I've always been interested in it and I don't train MMA - I just love to watch it). Most of the guys in MMA come from a trad MA background.

If a traditional martial art trains full contact or at least semi with free sparring then it'll be effective IMO but the problem I have with that video - and almost any video that is to impress the layman or those in the art is that they tend to be over choreographed or at the very least weak or known attacks are dealt with - look how many times the attacker comes with essentially a hammer fist strike to the top of the head and is expecting to be thwarted - unlikely in a real situation. Most of all though, they fight only against their own style which is the main problem with the trad arts in general (not always).

I mean this thread is MMA so I guess its effectiveness in a NHB match is what we're interested in here - but I like all MAs and I like the art of it not just the martial aspect. It's nice to see a bit more Judo appearing in MMA fights for instance (Damien Maia's takedowns for instance are lovely).
20 odd years of MMA have shown that you need a multitude of different aspects from the traditional arts, great precision striking and blocking or superb submissions or GnP, great takedown defence if you're a striker, great takedowns if your a BBJer or grappler, but the best tend to have them all - take Anderson Silva who can knock you out or submit you.

That being said some people like to learn languages for the fun of it, not because they're moving to that country - same goes for Martial Arts.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 8, 2011)

I was looking forward for GSP/ Diaz cos Diaz has pulled off some impressive wins.

Is Condit more of a threat?


----------



## Structaural (Sep 8, 2011)

According to GSP he is. I think Diaz and Penn would be a better fight thinking about it... yeah shame Diaz fucked this fight the dozy stoner (speaking as a stoner myself)


----------



## Structaural (Sep 8, 2011)

Strikeforce Heavyweight tournament this weekend btw..


----------



## elbows (Sep 8, 2011)

Diaz has cost himself about $2 million straight away, and who knows how much potential future earnings since I don't expect UFC to place as much trust in him in future, to say the least.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 8, 2011)

elbows said:


> Diaz has cost himself about $2 million straight away, and who knows how much potential future earnings since I don't expect UFC to place as much trust in him in future, to say the least.


Absolutely gutted, I was really looking forward to this fight, I love watching the Diaz brothers fight.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 9, 2011)

http://twitter.com/#!/danawhite/status/111953183512870912


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 9, 2011)

Penn's main enemy is himself, his fitness, his mindset.
And he did lose that fight against Fitch. Fuck knows what the judges were scoring on (and I'm a big Penn fan).

Penn vs Diaz.
Diaz to win.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 9, 2011)

I think he drew against Fitch, but yeah he's been lackluste since Edgar defeated him (except that wicked knockout of Barney Rubble). I'm a fan.


----------



## gavman (Sep 9, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> I was looking forward for GSP/ Diaz cos Diaz has pulled off some impressive wins.
> 
> Is Condit more of a threat?


i think so, yes
i believe conduit has the tools to defeat gsp. whereas nick diaz would, imo, just be dominated on the ground and frustrated in sub attempts, while g'npd.
basically, a repeat of gsp v mayhem miller

wheras conduit has a touch of brilliance to him, both in striking and the speed he throws up his subs. diaz is too one paced, and that plays into gsp's strength; he has a 'riddem' he can sustain for five rounds. he won't peak and then tire, so it will just be a grind. i find the conduit match more appealing as a spectator


----------



## gavman (Sep 9, 2011)

Structaural said:


> According to GSP he is. I think Diaz and Penn would be a better fight thinking about it... yeah shame Diaz fucked this fight the dozy stoner (speaking as a stoner myself)


diaz v penn looks exciting on the feet and exciting on the ground. they're both pure bjj guys so that could be superb, positon deferred to attacking with subs...excellent. and they're both technically good boxers, but i love bj's striking. i'd give him an edge there


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## Structaural (Sep 14, 2011)

That Strikeforce is worth a watch the Daniel Cormier (known as the Black Fedor) fight was sweet and the middleweight title fight was awesome.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 15, 2011)




----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 15, 2011)

Structaural said:


>


 
AWESOME


----------



## gavman (Sep 15, 2011)

ninja weeble

got him back out of range intact though...


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## Structaural (Sep 16, 2011)

Here's Bas Ruten laughing about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58pGdRAHQ3g
The guy is Jonathan Ivey and he's allegedly got the most leglocks in the cage...


----------



## Structaural (Sep 16, 2011)

Cro Cop is fighting Nelson and retiring at UFC 137. Right Leg KFC, Left leg, Burger King.


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## Structaural (Sep 19, 2011)

Amaaaaazing finish:



btw there was a UFC Fight Night 25 on saturday, haven't seen it, don't know who was fighting other than Jake Shields.


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## Deareg (Sep 19, 2011)

Has anyone heard which channel is showing The Ultimate Fighter season 14?


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## Structaural (Sep 19, 2011)

Spike usually


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## gavman (Sep 20, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Amaaaaazing finish:
> 
> 
> 
> btw there was a UFC Fight Night 25 on saturday, haven't seen it, don't know who was fighting other than Jake Shields.



it was really poor, even by 'fight night' standards. you'd be insane to watch it live as it's 80% adverts and 20% third rate fighters.
that jonathon brookings who won the ultimate fighter was appearing, and being talked up by the commentary team, even though he is completely one-dimensional.
fuck, how do you do the spoiler thingy again?
i won't continue until you've had a chance to catch up


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## gavman (Sep 20, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Has anyone heard which channel is showing The Ultimate Fighter season 14?


the ufc have done a deal with fox, and i think this is the first outing there. it begins on wednesday, but i still don't know which actual channel it will be on over here


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## Structaural (Sep 20, 2011)

gavman said:


> it was really poor, even by 'fight night' standards. you'd be insane to watch it live as it's 80% adverts and 20% third rate fighters.
> that jonathon brookings who won the ultimate fighter was appearing, and being talked up by the commentary team, even though he is completely one-dimensional.
> fuck, how do you do the spoiler thingy again?
> i won't continue until you've had a chance to catch up



Oh the hippy 'rear naked choke' man. Did he get knocked out, I'll watch it tonight, I don't really care about the result...

I was going to watch (ad free) it last night, but the card looked so rubbish I watched Breaking bad and True Blood instead  Certainly no regrets on the Breaking Bad...

Looking forward to TUF, big fan of Mayhem, shame Bisping is such a twat  (ever watch Bully Beatdown? great fun).

Saturday is going to be some night. Poor Rampage.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 20, 2011)

Yeah poor Rampage - all that ego and persona to be squashed.

Not finished Fight Night.
A bit gutted to see Jason MacDonald losing like that.
I like him cos he's an old boy...but BJJ in the ring is becoming too predictable...


----------



## al (Sep 20, 2011)

The Benoist/Riddle fight on the undercard was pretty good on UFN 25, deservedly got fight of the night.

Part 1..
http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Lance_Benoist_vs_Matt_Riddle_PT_1_2_UFC_Fight_N?vid=10022640&tid=100

Part 2..
http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Lance_Benoist_vs_Matt_Riddle_PT_2_2_UFC_Fight_N?vid=10022641&tid=100


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## Structaural (Sep 20, 2011)

Aw, I Iike Rampage, he's such a clown. I'd rather him win than Bones, but he won't. I'd be very surprised anyway.


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 20, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Aw, I Iike Rampage, he's such a clown. I'd rather him win than Bones, but he won't. I'd be very surprised anyway.



Rampage has a good chance.
A better chance than Evans cos he relies purely on his striking abilities.
It won't that decisive I don't think.
But the edge goes to Jones due to his open imaginative style...


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 20, 2011)

Structaural said:


>


 
btw who the hell is this? and who won?


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## Structaural (Sep 20, 2011)

I was watching some old Pride with Rampage - man he used to just pick people up when he was in their full guard.


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## Structaural (Sep 20, 2011)

see post 761, Shamrock won - but on decision - the fat guy dropped him once.


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## Structaural (Sep 20, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Rampage has a good chance.
> A better chance than Evans cos he relies purely on his striking abilities.
> It won't that decisive I don't think.
> But the edge goes to Jones due to his open imaginative style...



I think Jones will probably try and wrestle him quite a bit and knee him in the face. Rampage seems to be his fittest for some time, so if he can get inside that huuuge reach (84" or something) he might land a couple of power punches. Not sure bones has been clipped yet, that'll show if he's got longevity. That's one of Anderson Silva's advantages after all, an iron head.

Here's some silly hype: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl6wsw_1_sport


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 20, 2011)

Structaural said:


> I think Jones will probably try and wrestle him quite a bit and knee him in the face. Rampage seems to be his fittest for some time, so if he can get inside that huuuge reach (84" or something) he might land a couple of power punches. Not sure bones has been clipped yet, that'll show if he's got longevity. That's one of Anderson Silva's advantages after all, an iron head.
> 
> Here's some silly hype: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl6wsw_1_sport



Blah! I need to check that video out when I get in - work policy and all that bollocks.
I have a disliking for naturally gifted athletes and always support the underdog, so I don't mind if Rampage wins this bout.

This I hope, will be a great fight. I want this to be an EPIC!


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## Deareg (Sep 20, 2011)

gavman said:


> the ufc have done a deal with fox, and i think this is the first outing there. it begins on wednesday, but i still don't know which actual channel it will be on over here


Thanks, I have looked on the UFC website but nothing on it, it was the same for season 13., they were very late getting a channel to show it.


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## gavman (Sep 21, 2011)

i've found it....on fx hd on thursday nights, think it was 10 or 11 pm


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## ice-is-forming (Sep 21, 2011)

i'm looking forward to sunday its gonna be good...

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Greg-Atzori-55009

this is my friend( we work together as disability support workers) that trains with 2 of my sons at every given opportunity and half the time they tap him out so lets hope they keep at it cos then they can look after me in my dotage


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## extra dry (Sep 21, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Technical fight?
> 
> Sudo Genki (best Japanese BJJ tatician ever) vs Royler Gracie (7th dan Black Belt BJJ grappler).



knee strikes at 3.42 head woozzy then the follow on punch good night


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## Deareg (Sep 21, 2011)

gavman said:


> i've found it....on fx hd on thursday nights, think it was 10 or 11 pm


Thanks for posting that gavman, it is 11pm.


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## Structaural (Sep 21, 2011)

It'll be on spike tonight for download tomorrow too. Don't think I can any of those channels over here in holland.

This is interesting, Quinton's 2nd ever MMA fight (he gets in 4 slams):



Edit: better link


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 21, 2011)

Structaural said:


> It'll be on spike tonight for download tomorrow too. Don't think I can any of those channels over here in holland.
> 
> This is interesting, Quinton's 2nd ever MMA fight (he gets in 4 slams):
> 
> ...




Nice slam. Takes strength to pick a guy up like that.
Then again, his opponent was severely less experienced in comparison (guillotine from side control )


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## Structaural (Sep 21, 2011)

More hype for sunday's fight:


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## Structaural (Sep 21, 2011)

Fuck, Bones is going to have an 11" reach advantage


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 21, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Fuck, Bones is going to have an 11" reach advantage



Rampage has to charge and not get picked off.
That's one thing he has, superior hands.


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## Structaural (Sep 21, 2011)

Koscheck better beat Barney rubble...


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## Structaural (Sep 21, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Rampage has to charge and not get picked off.
> That's one thing he has, superior hands.



...and a strong jaw, but I worry about knees, that's what did Rua in in the first round.


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 21, 2011)

Have you seen Rampage clinched?


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 21, 2011)

Just saw the card.

Takanori Gomi is fighting Nate Diaz. Really hope he wins as he was one of favs some years ago...
but reality says he'll lose on points...


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## Structaural (Sep 22, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Have you seen Rampage clinched?



Not sure, but Bones is pretty good at flying knees without a clinch. Be interesting to see Quinton's takedown defence against one of the best upcoming take down artists.

Yeah I reckon Diaz will outstrike Gomi, but we'll see.

It's on 3am our time btw.


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 22, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Not sure, but Bones is pretty good at flying knees without a clinch. Be interesting to see Quinton's takedown defence against one of the best upcoming take down artists.
> 
> Yeah I reckon Diaz will outstrike Gomi, but we'll see.
> 
> It's on 3am our time btw.



I'm recording and watching it in the morning...
Need to train at 9am and if I stay up, I only will get drunk and waste the entire day!!!

Gomi outstriked? His cardio is shitter than Penn these days...if he does lose, he should retire.


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## Structaural (Sep 22, 2011)

hehe Jones never looks opponents in the eyes during weigh-ins so Rampage:


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## Structaural (Sep 22, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> I'm recording and watching it in the morning...
> Need to train at 9am and if I stay up, I only will get drunk and waste the entire day!!!.



They don't broadcast it in the netherlands afaik, only internet PPV. I'll download it on sunday ad free.

Training at 9am on a Sunday? Gwan... That's my once a week lay-in


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 22, 2011)

Structaural said:


> They don't broadcast it in the netherlands afaik, only internet PPV. I'll download it on sunday ad free.
> 
> Training at 9am on a Sunday? Gwan... That's my once a week lay-in



I've retired from BJJ - getting too old and these kids are way too energetic to spar with. I'm happy running and doing weights - only way that keeps me sane! Looking at Indonesian arts atm...may venture down this route.


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## Structaural (Sep 22, 2011)

I'd love to learn a bit of BBJ or any ground game, but too old now...


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 22, 2011)

I trained with beginners in their late 40s and after 12 months, they get awesomely fit with good skills.
One of my good friends (same age as Randy Couture) started at 40 and is now a brown belt. His body is cut, not a spot of fat on him.
If you have time on your hands, I recommend!

I've retired for now mainly cos I think my ground game/ take down skills is adequate for self-defence and secondly, I cannot dedicate 4-5 evenings a week. It's one of those sports that requires various bodies to practice with (unlike striking where a mirror/ punch bad will do).

so, you're never too old!!


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 22, 2011)

Back to the Rampage vs Jones bout - I think you're right on the clinch/ knees...think that'll be the Jones' game-plan after wearing him out.


----------



## gavman (Sep 22, 2011)

c'mon then guys..predictions for jones v rampage on saturday?

it's one of those fights where the result will seem so obvious _*after *_the match, but who will stick their necks out now?

i'm going with....jones by decision.
i think rampage's movement is just not good enough for a cat like jones and he will struggle to lay a glove on him.
i don't think jones will be easily taking rampage down, but will use range and movement to beat him on the outside

but i will be cheering for jackson

(covered the bases nicely there...)


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## Structaural (Sep 22, 2011)

I think Bones will keep his distance and use knees and leg kicks (Rampage is susceptible to kicks), maybe will try some elbow strikes and front kicks, fancies himself a bit Anderson Silva doesn't he? I'm sure he'll want to show his wresting skills and see if Quinton still has any. But I think he'll take his time and pick him apart. Decision or TKO due to ground strikes...
I also will be cheering for Jackson it would be great if he could knock Jones the fuck out, but Shogun had the skills to do that... Jones is just freaky... so long. I haven't decided if I like Jones yet, he's too new on the scene...


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## Structaural (Sep 22, 2011)

Rampage used to have trouble with gassing too, but I hear he's in great shape for this one.


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## elbows (Sep 22, 2011)

I hear that there were many great fights on the season opener of TUF, so I'll be giving it a watch this season.


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## Structaural (Sep 22, 2011)

Just finished watching it, man that was a good hour of fighting, lots of skills shown. Featherweights and bantamweights so fast and explosive. That was good stuff.


----------



## gavman (Sep 22, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Rampage used to have trouble with gassing too, but I hear he's in great shape for this one.


plus he went five rounds with dan henderson for the ufc lhw belt


----------



## gavman (Sep 22, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Just finished watching it, man that was a good hour of fighting, lots of skills shown. Featherweights and bantamweights so fast and explosive. That was good stuff.


looking forward to iton in a couple of hours


----------



## Structaural (Sep 23, 2011)

Jon Jones doing an entire interview in a english accent. I like him more now for the trolling 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDaJYxxTgK0&feature=player_embedded#!


----------



## Structaural (Sep 23, 2011)

Here's some amusing predictions from Joey Karate:



edit: 'joey' even


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 23, 2011)

you're never too old to start BJJ. At our gym we have a load of people of varying belt levels in their 40s and 50s who train


----------



## pad (Sep 24, 2011)

Some good trash talk between Rampage and Jon Jones


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 24, 2011)

pad said:


> Some good trash talk between Rampage and Jon Jones




That's real fun.
Nice banter, they're so mates!


----------



## pad (Sep 24, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> That's real fun.
> Nice banter, they're so mates!


Yeah there's a few of Rampage's previous opponents that he couldn't have sat beside like that. I hope he wins but I'll be shocked if he does.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 25, 2011)

please please please quit Gomi...
you were great once but not now....


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 25, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> please please please quit Gomi...
> you were great once but not now....



lol! hes lost what? 6 of the last 7 fights now? gotta say tho that finish by nate was good


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 25, 2011)

ice-is-forming said:


> lol! hes lost what? 6 of the last 7 fights now? gotta say tho that finish by nate was good



classic bjj move. nate fakes a triangle to get the arm-bar.
boy, gomi's ground game sucks. i really like him but he should quit. i love him loads but this is getting 

Who's got Virgin? I really am pissed with them. I set it on record and it missed the main event


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 25, 2011)

i watched it down the pub main event was good ( technical) tho..if a little un-exciting.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 25, 2011)

ice-is-forming said:


> i watched it down the pub main event was good ( technical) tho..if a little un-exciting.



Pub? What pub was this? I don't know of any place in London that shows MMA


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 25, 2011)

Jones was impressive. Rampage still gives the best interview in all of MMA


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Pub? What pub was this? I don't know of any place in London that shows MMA



im in australia


----------



## gavman (Sep 26, 2011)

good event....
but typical ufc, no advance warning mark hunt was on the card!

and boy is his ground game improving...if he continues in this vein he might just become a real threat.
ok, i'll declare an interest, he's probably my favourite heavyweight and i get goose bumps watching him.
love the way outpscychs his opponents, looks like he's gassed, then suddenly changes speed and comes forward like a tsunami. even in k1 there was no-one who could stand in front of him on a charge...i've never seen power like it.
and he almost broke rothwell's leg with a single kicki've not seen such a damaging single low kick since pedro rizzo v randy couture

 my only issue with him is that, despite his top drawer feinting, and intelligent striking set ups, tactically sometimes he seems a bit...dim. at least he's not getting caught in arm bars and kimoras so easily, but when he had big ben hurt imo he really should've attacked his legs, and would've got the finish earlier if he had.
like teddy atlas says, when a guy is hurt and covering up you can waste a lot of energy headhunting, better to go downstairs first


----------



## Corax (Sep 27, 2011)

After watching the thread intro Fedor stuff, and going on to have a look at some fights by others like Jon Jones, GSP, and lots of others I can't remember but would recognise the names of, I didn't ever get round to really following MMA. But I've just started watching old episodes of TUF on watchseries and I'm pleasantly surprised. I expected it to be reality show stage-managed shite, X-Factor with grappling, but I'm actually really enjoying it. I'm sure the true afficionados look down on it, but it's a great introduction to MMA IMO. 

_You're gonna get hit, you're gonna get knocked out!_ __


----------



## Deareg (Sep 29, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> classic bjj move. nate fakes a triangle to get the arm-bar.
> boy, gomi's ground game sucks. i really like him but he should quit. i love him loads but this is getting
> 
> Who's got Virgin? I really am pissed with them. I set it on record and it missed the main event


I am probably stating the obvious now, but I always set the recorder to include the following program as well, just in case it runs over.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Oct 2, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I am probably stating the obvious now, but I always set the recorder to include the following program as well, just in case it runs over.



yeah...I know now 

Anyway, just saw the rampage/ jones fight.
It was indeed like Frankenstein vs Spiderman (Jones even started off the 1st round as Spidey)


----------



## Corax (Oct 2, 2011)

TUF discussion on here?  Or is there another thread?


----------



## gavman (Oct 2, 2011)

Corax said:


> TUF discussion on here? Or is there another thread?


this is the place!


----------



## gavman (Oct 2, 2011)

Corax said:


> After watching the thread intro Fedor stuff, and going on to have a look at some fights by others like Jon Jones, GSP, and lots of others I can't remember but would recognise the names of, I didn't ever get round to really following MMA. But I've just started watching old episodes of TUF on watchseries and I'm pleasantly surprised. I expected it to be reality show stage-managed shite, X-Factor with grappling, but I'm actually really enjoying it. I'm sure the true afficionados look down on it, but it's a great introduction to MMA IMO.
> 
> _You're gonna get hit, you're gonna get knocked out!___


i was just as sceptical, but it really is quite watchable, isn't it?
there's a certain honesty to having to fight each other that 'keeps it real', i find. and it's a fascinating insight into training techniques, how different skill sets match up against each other, the way different camps work, and of course you get to know the fighters, but not in that wretched 'inspirational story'-type contrived character arcs that you get in the intros or during the run-ups to big contests.
i'd say perhaps the most enjoyable were the first season of lightweights, and the uk v us team contest that michael bisping and dan henderson coached


----------



## gavman (Oct 2, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> yeah...I know now
> 
> Anyway, just saw the rampage/ jones fight.
> It was indeed like Frankenstein vs Spiderman (Jones even started off the 1st round as Spidey)


does anyone else here think that jones actually looks beatable now?

i suspect that shogun might be licking his lips at the prospect of a rematch, with the low kick the weapon of choice.
i genuinely think rampage could've won, it's just he spent a lot of time mesmerised by jones when he really wasn't doing much, and those spinning elbows do get easier to see coming each time.
funny thing is though, i'd rather see jones v henderson than shogun v hendo, and there's no guarantee that dan henderson can get past shogun to make it to jones

and does anyone really give a fuck about rashad?
the dude's a burglar!


----------



## Corax (Oct 2, 2011)

gavman said:


> i was just as sceptical, but it really is quite watchable, isn't it?
> there's a certain honesty to having to fight each other that 'keeps it real', i find. and it's a fascinating insight into training techniques, how different skill sets match up against each other, the way different camps work, and of course you get to know the fighters, but not in that wretched 'inspirational story'-type contrived character arcs that you get in the intros or during the run-ups to big contests.
> i'd say perhaps the most enjoyable were the first season of lightweights, and the uk v us team contest that michael bisping and dan henderson coached


I guess the glaring difference in terms of behaviours is that it's not a popularity contest as most 'talent' shows are.  There's no incentive to be a dick.

It's definitely good for learning what it's all about.  I'd watched a few fights before, but I knew I wasn't understanding the game particularly.  Having watched S13, this season, and working through S3 now (Bisping), I'm appreciating the match-ups much more.



gavman said:


> does anyone else here think that jones actually looks beatable now?


When I went on a spate of watching vids when this thread started and he was just breaking through, I thought then that he looked incredible.  I'm kind of sad to hear that he's looking less invincible now.

I see Fedor is out of significance too.  These guys have short careers don't they?


----------



## Structaural (Oct 3, 2011)

Shinya Aoki vs David Gardner Dream 7
Go to around 6 mins for a friendly but ultimately foolish move


----------



## Structaural (Oct 3, 2011)

gavman said:


> does anyone else here think that jones actually looks beatable now?
> 
> i suspect that shogun might be licking his lips at the prospect of a rematch, with the low kick the weapon of choice.
> i genuinely think rampage could've won, it's just he spent a lot of time mesmerised by jones when he really wasn't doing much, and those spinning elbows do get easier to see coming each time.
> ...



His strikes could do with improving, but I was impressed with Jones, but it would be interesting to see him up against a superb striker. But then Jones is a superb wrestler and submissions man... He needs to learn some combinations for his standup, but I think if anyone started dominating him on the feet he'd immediately take him down...Machida probably has the best chance.

Yeah Henderson would be a great matchup, skull of steel and very good wrestling. Jone's height would win out I'd have thought though... Jon Jones has a 1.5" reach advantage over Stefan Struve...

Here's an interesting interview with Rashad and goldburg about Jones: I don't mind Rashad, I've never seen TUF2, but I'm surprised by the amount of boos he gets.
http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/09/28/rashad-evans-says-jacksons-camp-has-become-commercial/


----------



## Structaural (Oct 3, 2011)

Also loving this new series of TUF. Some amazing fights at that weight, was impressed with the wrestler beating the kickboxer on the last show.

There was a UFC Live on Saturday. Cruz vs mighty mouse. Some great fights were had. I'll say no more for now...


----------



## Structaural (Oct 3, 2011)




----------



## Structaural (Oct 6, 2011)

Bones vs Machida for UFC140...


----------



## gavman (Oct 6, 2011)

seagal really is a cock, isn't he?
i thought it was bad enough when i heard about it, but to actually see the interview...wretched


----------



## gavman (Oct 6, 2011)

Corax said:


> I see Fedor is out of significance too. These guys have short careers don't they?


i think you've become interested at the end of fedor's career, but just at the beginning of jones'

i still think that fedor was the greatest heavyweight we've seen so far; 'of all time' seems a bit previous for such a young sport, but you get the jist. jones is undoubtedly a prodigious talent, and let's face it was looking almost unbeatable before the rampage fight, however now someone's stood with him long enough to see his full repertoire. to me there were plenty of times you could see jones trying to work out something spectacular, when a seasoned striker would be able to counter or beat him to the strike. and more than anything, i think he's shown a vulnerability to low kicks.
 for a guy that big to make 205 you have to be lean somewhere, and he's gone for the tito otiz chicken leg approach.
this, i reckon, will be his achilles


----------



## Corax (Oct 6, 2011)

Slightly shamefully, I actually feel some sense of gratification that my uneducated and early instincts on Jones were right - maybe I can make a buck or two betting on this stuff!  

Is there an palce online to watch UFCs?  Watchseries is brilliant for TUF, but not for matches that I can see.


----------



## gavman (Oct 6, 2011)

they've just done a deal with fox, so the big shows will be on fx from now.
espn have a regular talk show, mma live, which can be quite variable- chael sonnen is pretty much a fixture these days, so i tend to watch it with the remote handy and it's totally americentric, if there is such a word..in fact it's completely craven when it comes to the ufc; pravda is more editorially independent.
non of the presenters will say a word against the promotion, and stories that don't reflect well on the ufc or zuffa get the fox treatment; they simply never happened.
 bring on an independent, europe-based talk show, i say


----------



## Bakunin (Oct 7, 2011)

Structaural said:


> His strikes could do with improving, but I was impressed with Jones, but it would be interesting to see him up against a superb striker. But then Jones is a superb wrestler and submissions man... He needs to learn some combinations for his standup, but I think if anyone started dominating him on the feet he'd immediately take him down...Machida probably has the best chance.
> 
> Yeah Henderson would be a great matchup, skull of steel and very good wrestling. Jone's height would win out I'd have thought though... Jon Jones has a 1.5" reach advantage over Stefan Struve...
> 
> ...



Henderson's striking isn't to be underestimated either;


----------



## 100% masahiko (Oct 7, 2011)

gavman said:


> seagal really is a cock, isn't he?
> i thought it was bad enough when i heard about it, but to actually see the interview...wretched



He's a fallen goddess.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 7, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> Henderson's striking isn't to be underestimated either;




He's got a devastating overhand right for real.
Been watching some old Machida stuff (like his win over Franklin), he really did rule for a bit, but I'm not sure he'll be able to stop Jones's takedowns. I think Jones will be there for a while unless it turns out he has a glass chin.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 7, 2011)

gavman said:


> seagal really is a cock, isn't he?
> i thought it was bad enough when i heard about it, but to actually see the interview...wretched



I've always hated him since he married Kelly Le Brock (my teenage crush )


----------



## 100% masahiko (Oct 7, 2011)

If you walked into your bedroom and your wife/gf/partner was rimming Seagal, what would you do?

Out of pride, I'd pick up the nearest lampshade and hurl it at his balls.
And run like hell.
Cos there's no way he could catch me.

Or would you stand and fight the right-wing slob?


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2011)

Finally got round to watching the first episode of TUF. Wow, what fights, great stuff.


----------



## gavman (Oct 7, 2011)

the opener was good, but been a bit of a disappointment since, tbf; i can handle about ten seconds of two guys fronting each other out and talking shite before i reach for the remote, but we seem to be getting a lot more of it this time and less training action. it's almost as if they're being encouraged to go on more like eejits this series


----------



## gavman (Oct 8, 2011)

breaking news...ufc 140 december 10

jon jones v lyoto machida

now that's more like it!
no news yet why rashad is out...
much more exciting matchup, i reckon?

edit: turns out rashad dislocated his thumb against tito and won't be healed in time


----------



## Corax (Oct 8, 2011)

Watching TUF season 9 now.

Just seen Rob Brown say


> I'm starting to get in with the UK guys. "Cheers", "G'day mate", Throw another shrimp on the barbie"


----------



## al (Oct 9, 2011)

can we talk about chael sonnen yet?


----------



## gavman (Oct 10, 2011)

do we have to?


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## gavman (Oct 10, 2011)

nan pham v leonard garcia...what a fight!

as an aside, i've been more impressed with some recent judges decisions; they seem to now be scoring damage as opposed to 'octagon control'; about time too.
so often when a guy is just holding his opponent against the cage, to a crescendo of booing from the crowd, the dumbass ufc commentary team are claiming he should be credited with controlling the fight...except he isn't, they're trying to get it to the ground and their opponent is preventing them, so therefore their opponent is actually dictating where the fight is happening, up on their feet.
 we recently had a completely forgettable bout on fight night where jonathon brookings, the most useless one-trick wrestler to ever win tuf basically stalled out the whole fight, trying unsuccessfully to take his oponent (ed koch, i think) down, and getting damaged any time there was a separation. joe rogon was claiming brookings had won, despite doing no damage and failing to impose his game on his opponent. luckily the judges correctly decided to score it on *effective* techniques or strikes, much to rogon's consternation.
 so to me the aldo / florian result was another example of judges beginning to see things the right way.


----------



## gavman (Oct 10, 2011)

al said:


> can we talk about chael sonnen yet?


only thing i will say is he was looking considerably less ripped this time, what with all the scrutiny his drugs tests will face.
if we have to see him fight then the ufc should pitch him against dan henderson in a battle of the pharmaceutically enhanced


----------



## al (Oct 10, 2011)

gavman said:


> nan pham v leonard garcia...what a fight!



Agreed, but how long can Garcia keep on putting out FON bangers? He's got some skills, but as soon as things get a bit fruity the tactics go out the window and it's windmill/ haymaker combos a go-go. He's a great opponent to make up-and-comers look good, but how long will his body be able to sustain that level of punishment?

As to Chael Sonnen, well, I dislike him thoroughly but he sure knows how to sell a fight. 'loser leaves town' match? In a way that's a win/win for him. When silva turns him into mush he can just move to strikeforce and lie on top of people there for a few years, at least until AS retires.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 12, 2011)

al said:


> can we talk about chael sonnen yet?


----------



## Structaural (Oct 12, 2011)

gavman said:


> nan pham v leonard garcia...what a fight!
> 
> as an aside, i've been more impressed with some recent judges decisions; they seem to now be scoring damage as opposed to 'octagon control'; about time too.
> so often when a guy is just holding his opponent against the cage, to a crescendo of booing from the crowd, the dumbass ufc commentary team are claiming he should be credited with controlling the fight...except he isn't, they're trying to get it to the ground and their opponent is preventing them, so therefore their opponent is actually dictating where the fight is happening, up on their feet.
> ...



Yeah, I agree, still without that kind of thing, Coulter wouldn't have had a career 

Finally watched it last night, yep that Nam pham fight was awesome. Garcia is such a slugger and amazing recovery by Nam.
Almost every fight was amazing last night, I thought Edgar was a gonner after the first round, only to come back and properly win for once (you know finishing - 8 of his wins are decisions). Aldo was very impressive, so many great standup fighters have weak takedown defence.

Chael the cunt dominated that fight, Stann isn't much of a wrestler or it didn't seem like he was. It seems to me that Sonnen has been working much more on his BBJ. His takedowns are sick. Argh I hate him.

Was very please with Joe Lauzon (he posts on an MMA board I'm on), thought he was going to get knocked out, great finish...

Need to find and watcht the prelims now, they're usually as good as the main events. Maia never gets on the main card anymore... he's only got 3 losses in his career (he chocked out Chael just before getting beat up by Silva).


----------



## Structaural (Oct 12, 2011)

Gracie Breakdown of the Sonnen fight:


----------



## Corax (Oct 12, 2011)

Here's a general MMA question for y'all.

Every week in the local rag I read of someone who got thumped once after getting into an argument in the taxi queue or wherever, and found themselves with a broken face that needed an surgery, or in some cases worse, like brain damage.

Yet these blokes, at all levels, get repeatedly forearm smashed in the face, kneed in the face, "post and elbowed" and the rest.

WTF?

However much training you do it's not going to make your _face_ stronger.  What gives?


----------



## The Boy (Oct 12, 2011)

Corax said:


> Here's a general MMA question for y'all.
> 
> Every week in the local rag I read of someone who got thumped once after getting into an argument in the taxi queue or wherever, and found themselves with a broken face that needed an surgery, or in some cases worse, like brain damage.
> 
> ...



Isn't the point that the drunks in the taxi rank have no reflexes/training so don't ride the punch.   No gloves ina street fight either.

Sure someone more knowledgable will be along in a minute to tell me I'm wrong.


----------



## Corax (Oct 12, 2011)

The Boy said:


> Isn't the point that the drunks in the taxi rank have no reflexes/training so don't ride the punch. No gloves ina street fight either.
> 
> Sure someone more knowledgable will be along in a minute to tell me I'm wrong.


That may be part of it, but it's not just drunks in the hospital though, and MMA fighters don't wear gloves on their elbows, knees and forearms!


----------



## Structaural (Oct 12, 2011)

Bones broke Vera's face in 3 places after elbowing him on the ground. (This fight also shows that Jones can take a pretty good strike as he received an illegal upkick to the jaw in that fight). But yeah these guys are fighters, they do a lot of 'body conditioning' - ie letting someone hit the fuck out of you without retaliation to build up bone density and strengthen the body etc... but a lot of them are just freaks of nature with thick skulls.
Being able to take a shot is part of getting into the sport I reckon.
Skills help, watch Silva's fight against Sonnen and how many strikes on the floor Silva dodged or took the power out of just by shifting his head and body.
Before gloves in MMA there were a lot more broken faces, but it still happens, Cro-cop broke Bob Sapps orbital bone in Pride and GSP recently did that to Koshcheck - with jabs.
Most of these guys are fighting 8 hours a day 5-6 days a week, builds toughness, unlike 15 pints of Stella.


----------



## Bakunin (Oct 12, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Before gloves in MMA there were a lot more broken faces



The introduction weight divisions and the elimination of certain types of strikes are also factors. That way it put an end to mismatches like this one;


----------



## Corax (Oct 12, 2011)

Ouch.

Still not sure any of that explains all of it though.  Like I said, elbow, knees and forearms don't have gloves, and I don't believe any amount of training will teach your jawbone not to snap.  Maybe it's just natural selection, and it's only the guys with 'hard' bones that last more than a couple of amateur fights.


----------



## Mungy (Oct 12, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Most of these guys are fighting 8 hours a day 5-6 days a week, builds toughness, unlike 15 pints of Stella.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 14, 2011)

Had to watch this again, the finish is amazing, looks like he landed on his head...

http://www.sportpost.com/video/view/Demian+Maia+vs+Chael+Sonnen


----------



## al (Oct 19, 2011)

Gsp is out of next week's UFC, penn and Diaz to headline instead...


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## Structaural (Oct 19, 2011)

Conveniently, he should be healed and ready for Vancouver... Still the Penn/Diaz fight should be a much better spectacle.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 19, 2011)

Daley vs Diaz (April 9, 2011, Strikeforce):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tntvOGtPCiA


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## gavman (Oct 20, 2011)

Corax said:


> Here's a general MMA question for y'all.
> 
> Every week in the local rag I read of someone who got thumped once after getting into an argument in the taxi queue or wherever, and found themselves with a broken face that needed an surgery, or in some cases worse, like brain damage.
> 
> ...


broken orbitals are really quite common in the sport, and usually caused by elbow strikes on the ground. personally i think the guy on top should be prohibited from throwing downward elbows, and the guy underneath should be allowed to upkick. the rules as currently constituted make for considerable advantage for freestyle wrestlers, the closest american equivalent to a martial art


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## gavman (Oct 20, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Daley vs Diaz (April 9, 2011, Strikeforce):
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tntvOGtPCiA


brilliant. that's the first time i've seen the full fight. thanks for that


----------



## Corax (Oct 21, 2011)

gavman said:


> brilliant. that's the first time i've seen the full fight. thanks for that


I know nothing about the two fighters, but I was disappointed.  The winner appeared to be a total bellend. (?)


----------



## Corax (Oct 21, 2011)

Re TUF - is Bisping a really shit corner-man?

He's hesitant
He parrots whatever the oppo corner have just said
He states the blindingly obvious "you have to stand up! stand up! you gotta stand up!" when the guy's getting pummeled on the floor.
He's incredibly negative "no! no! no!".

He's no earthly use to anyone.


----------



## gavman (Oct 21, 2011)

Corax said:


> Re TUF - is Bisping a really shit corner-man?
> 
> He's hesitant
> He parrots whatever the oppo corner have just said
> ...


that is definitely the impression given by the editing of the current tuf series, but i think he's being shafted by the production team.
it isn't uncommon for coaches to have double bookings and miss the odd appearance; however we are always given the explanation why. this didn't happen for bisping this time round. i suspect there may have been a reasonable explanation, but the ufc has cast bisping as the bad guy for this series and it suits them not to share it.

wrt his cornering, it seemed so bad i got suspicious. again i'm putting this down to the edit; they seem to highlight anything dumb he does (calling the fighter's name, generally breaking his concentration at crucial moments to say nothing of use, telling his fighter's not to use their strongest weapons, his lack of expertise in coaching grappling) and overlook his good points, while contrasting with good advice from miller.
basically the americans really hate bisping and this series is pandering to that.
but nothing can hide the fact that bisping's fighters appear like startled rabbits in a car's headlights in the cage; they don't seem to know or be comfortable with their respective game plans


----------



## gavman (Oct 21, 2011)

Corax said:


> I know nothing about the two fighters, but I was disappointed. The winner appeared to be a total bellend. (?)


yes, but he's always been like that; that's part of his method.
i had heard reports of the fight that gave daley very little credit, but he clearly did really well and was seconds away from finishing diaz. i found it to be an immensely exciting fight, despite knowing the outcome


----------



## Corax (Oct 21, 2011)

gavman said:


> wrt his cornering, it seemed so bad i got suspicious. again i'm putting this down to the edit; they seem to highlight anything dumb he does (calling the fighter's name, generally breaking his concentration at crucial moments to say nothing of use, telling his fighter's not to use their strongest weapons, his lack of expertise in coaching grappling) and overlook his good points, while contrasting with good advice from miller.


Thing is that I've also been watching TUF9, and I first noticed it there.  Either they did the same trick before and he and his agent are too thick to have noticed, or don't mind, or he really is genuinely dreadful in the corner.  The latter wouldn't be any surprise or disgrace tbh.  He's not a seasoned old pro, and he's been successful at fighting, not talking.  It doesn't mean he's a bad coach either.


----------



## gavman (Oct 21, 2011)

painful to watch though


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## gavman (Oct 22, 2011)

just seen this on another thread. it belongs here though


----------



## etrigan (Oct 24, 2011)

Corax said:


> Ouch.
> 
> Still not sure any of that explains all of it though. Like I said, elbow, knees and forearms don't have gloves, and I don't believe any amount of training will teach your jawbone not to snap. Maybe it's just natural selection, and it's only the guys with 'hard' bones that last more than a couple of amateur fights.



The gloves are actually meant to protect the bones in the hand from being broken. Boxers stopped fighting bare knuckle decades ago because you can't get very far in a fight before someone breaks their hand. MMA fighters often complain that the gloves in MMA don't have enough padding. Hard bone strikes like kicks, knees and elbows do a lot of damage. It's not uncommon to break bones in MMA including in the face.


----------



## gavman (Oct 30, 2011)

getting set up for tonight's ufc..penn v diaz.
and it's not often i say this, but i'm hoping for some high quality grappling in the main event


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## Structaural (Oct 31, 2011)

Whoa, shit, why'd I come in here... * fucks off until UFC is watched*


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## gavman (Nov 1, 2011)

i propose a new rule.
no talking about the weekend's ufc until after the repeat shown on sunday night.
after that it's fair game.

what do people think?


----------



## al (Nov 1, 2011)

yep - does that mean I can say that Penn v Diaz was pretty awesome and I can't wait to see the GSP fight?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 1, 2011)

I have noticed that posters rarely reveal the results of fights anyway, until it can be reasonably assumed that others have had plenty of time to watch them.


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## Deareg (Nov 1, 2011)

al said:


> yep - does that mean I can say that Penn v Diaz was pretty awesome and I can't wait to see the GSP fight?


I used to be a big GSP fan, but his fights seem to be getting more boring as each one comes around, I think he is so good at analysing his opponents that he just works a plan out and sticks to it, while obviously very effective it does not make for good fights to watch.


----------



## al (Nov 1, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I used to be a big GSP fan, but his fights seem to be getting more boring as each one comes around, I think he is so good at analysing his opponents that he just works a plan out and sticks to it, while obviously very effective it does not make for good fights to watch.



I agree, to a point - I thought the Koscheck fight was brilliant, while others thought it lacked a finish I was impressed by a fighter that utterly controlled his opponent. I am a little worried though that the Diaz fight might result in lay 'n pray for 5 rounds, I can't see GSP wanting to stand and trade - that's just not the smart strategy with Diaz. Maybe he'll try and kick the hell out of him though, keep some distance and then nail the 'kick du jour' - straight front kick.... I dunno. It _should_ be an incredible fight but it might also turn into a major dissapointment. Personally, I'm rooting for GSP - I just like a French Canadian beating up all those yanks....


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## Structaural (Nov 1, 2011)

gavman said:


> i propose a new rule.
> no talking about the weekend's ufc until after the repeat shown on sunday night.
> after that it's fair game.
> 
> what do people think?



Sounds fair enough unless we use the spoiler tag (remove spaces):

[ spoiler=This is a soiler ]You've been spoiled[ / spoiler]



Spoiler: UFC 137



Nick Diaz and BJ Penn, what a fucking fight!
Diaz's boxing just gets better and better, though he did seem to have a massive reach advantage, but also a chin advantage, Penn looked out on his feet. Diaz is like Nelson with that chin (or forehead, he kept nutting Penn's fist). Bring on the GSP fight (which GSP will most likely win). I like Diaz and Penn so just enjoyed that. The press conference was supposed to be, um, interesting with Diaz, I'm trying to find a video..

Nelson, looked like a different fighter, CroCop looked slow and scared except for one flurry. Why doesn't he use low kicks or a jab? Anyway he leaves on his shield, a legend back in the day.

Some of the best BJJ from guard I've seen in the Jorgenson/Curran fight, in fact I thought that Curran should have had that one on decision, except that a takedown even if you get controlled from the guy on his back, get's you more points. Annoying. Though Roos was robbed too.


----------



## al (Nov 1, 2011)

stuff spoilers - it's tuesday, if people haven't seen it now then when are they going to watch it?



> Some of the best BJJ from guard I've seen in the Jorgenson/Curran fight, in fact I thought that Curran should have had that one on decision, except that a takedown even if you get controlled from the guy on his back, get's you more points. Annoying



Although I'd agree that his BJJ was incredible, I just don't see how you could give him the fight. Jorgenson was far more aggressive and even though Curran was able to nullify a lot of Jorgenson's offence on the ground, he wasn't really able to get off any of his own offensive moves. Simply stopping your opponent from hitting you quite as many times as he would have had you not defended is never going to win you a fight.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 1, 2011)

I gave Curran the 1st and the 3rd (but very close), his striking was better, yeah looked like he broke his hand in the 3rd and wasn't so effective, but I reckon he showed better striking standing than Jorgenson. I guess I'd like to see more points for totally nullifying an opponents take-down.
Anyway what do I know, even Curran disagreed with me


----------



## Structaural (Nov 1, 2011)

I never knew BJ fought Lyoto in Japan in 2005:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdvOfCz6_tk


----------



## al (Nov 1, 2011)

Structaural said:


> I guess I'd like to see more points for totally nullifying an opponents take-down.



In a way, I agree with you, but rather than _give_ points for nullifying a take down I would just say that simply getting a take down shouldn't earn you any points, it's surely how effective you are in your chosen position. After all, strikers aren't awarded any more points for getting to their feet....


----------



## Structaural (Nov 1, 2011)

3 points for getting back up, surely it's more difficult. 

I agree, takedown's are often overrated and favours wrestlers. Certainly shouldn't be worth an automatic 3 points (if it actually does)


----------



## gavman (Nov 2, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I have noticed that posters rarely reveal the results of fights anyway, until it can be reasonably assumed that others have had plenty of time to watch them.


i bloody tie myself in knots trying to observe *that one*


----------



## gavman (Nov 2, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I used to be a big GSP fan, but his fights seem to be getting more boring as each one comes around, I think he is so good at analysing his opponents that he just works a plan out and sticks to it, while obviously very effective it does not make for good fights to watch.


i think he's a competitor, not a fighter


----------



## Structaural (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah GSP wants to win, he's a sportsman, whatever it takes, no matter how boring. Diaz wants to win, at fighting.


----------



## gavman (Nov 2, 2011)

he is beginning to look quite formidable now. poor old carlos condit


----------



## al (Nov 2, 2011)

Do you think Diaz is _ever_ happy? He comes across as a grumpy teenager that's been told he can only stay out til midnight...


----------



## Deareg (Nov 2, 2011)

I love watching the Diaz brothers fight and love there attitude, hope they both end up with world titles.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 2, 2011)

gavman said:


> i bloody tie myself in knots trying to observe *that one*


Might be just my forgiving attitude?


----------



## Structaural (Nov 4, 2011)

Get in my guard, very silly


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Nov 6, 2011)

Higaonna demonstrating what a fragile thing the human body is in the hands of an deadly Okinawan midget.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 9, 2011)

^why finger locks are banned in MMA 

Anyone watched UFC 138 yet (or anyone go and actually watched it as it was on Birmingham?) some great fights. I think the Brit in the first fight must have got one of the fastest submissions ever (he ties, I just checked), with a 17 second guillotine choke. It was a great show of grappling and BJJ. I've still got the prelims to watch, though they showed John Maguire's fight after the main event which was excellent, finally we seem to have a decent grappler in the UK


----------



## Structaural (Nov 9, 2011)

Anyone remember Tank Abbott? He was the first guy to wear the MMA gloves and used to fight in the very early UFC (no weight class, no time and tournament format), he beat up Monica's bf in Friends (which I saw a rerun of at the weekend hence this look up  ).


----------



## Structaural (Nov 9, 2011)

From UFC 138:


----------



## Structaural (Dec 1, 2011)

It's gone quiet in here - everyone waiting for the Bones or GSP fight?

Bring back spoilers I think - there's so much UFC being broadcast it's hard to keep up.



Spoiler: UFC 139



Man, the Henderson Shogun fight was epic! one of the best fights I've seen, Hendo won it on points but Shogun won it on heart.


----------



## kodokan (Dec 2, 2011)

John Maguire submits BJJ black belt Andy Roberts in the submission 1000 event last Summer.(no chokes or cranks allowed)

This is sublime performance, submits him with a reverse kimora. Maguires strength is his slightly unconventional style, note his butterfly guard much more effective then the standard BJJ one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPZzqyibON0


----------



## kodokan (Dec 2, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Yes that is very true.
> 
> I guess you get the gist of MMA then.
> 
> ...




I have never in real life seen that side step defence work or the other complex ones often taught, best defence is to tuck your chin in, go down on one knee, if only your head is involved theres enough space to use your forearm as a fulcrum/leaver against their grip, by putting it in the gap,it works.

The guillotine is a standard defence against old school one or two legged take downs, obviously the guy doing the guillotine then sprawls.

Its very common in mma. A guillotine which just involves the head can be easily defended against, (you have two arms free to defend it). A guillotine that also underhooks one of your arms is a very difficult thing to defend.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Dec 2, 2011)

kodokan said:


> I have never in real life seen that side step defence work or the other complex ones often taught, best defence is to tuck your chin in, go down on one knee, if only your head is involved theres enough space to use your forearm as a fulcrum/leaver against their grip, by putting it in the gap,it works.
> 
> The guillotine is a standard defence against old school one or two legged take downs, obviously the guy doing the guillotine then sprawls.
> 
> Its very common in mma. A guillotine which just involves the head can be easily defended against, (you have two arms free to defend it). A guillotine that also underhooks one of your arms is a very difficult thing to defend.



Yeah that works. The left arm (if you're under his right arm) alleviates the pressure.
The side-step works too but it's about 2 secs longer to do and safer.
The quickest escape is smashing his balls.

Your dropping down on single knee works if you have speed and the space. But it's effective I know.

I've only done the first one cos the guy involved was too concerned in yanking my head off.

I think an open guillotine is one of the worse moves you can do in a real fight.
But it's instinctual I guess and most folks don't know how to get out of them.

Hopefully, I won't be involved in real situations anytime soon.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I finally caught up with the last 3 UFCs.

BJ Penn - thank fuck you chucked it in. You lost heart in the sport a while back. Don't want to see him hurt.

But the Shogun and Henderson fight.
What a blast. Best one for ages.


----------



## kodokan (Dec 2, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Yeah that works. The left arm (if you're under his right arm) alleviates the pressure.
> The side-step works too but it's about 2 secs longer to do and safer.
> The quickest escape is smashing his balls.
> 
> ...



It depends, the way submission wrestlers do guillotins is very different then the way a civilian would attempt it. The same with a standard headlock. But obviously you have to counter defend side steps, etc by sprawling.

You can you use the bone of your forearm to exert enormous pressure on their windpipe, you can choke someone out like that in 15seconds.If you get an underhook of one arm they are going nowhere.

Using it depends on the context, environment etc.

I specalise in chokes, John Maguire who I train with is a kimura man.

In terms of getting in a street fight with someone bigger and stronger, chokes, elbow strikes and knees are the best defence system. But obviously it depends on the sitution.


----------



## kodokan (Dec 2, 2011)

Heres a classic Royce Gracie v sumo, very entertaining, Royce nails him with an omoplata.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POJ2T023M4I


----------



## 100% masahiko (Dec 2, 2011)

kodokan said:


> It depends, the way submission wrestlers do guillotins is very different then the way a civilian would attempt it. The same with a standard headlock. But obviously you have to counter defend side steps, etc by sprawling.
> 
> You can you use the bone of your forearm to exert enormous pressure on their windpipe, you can choke someone out like that in 15seconds.If you get an underhook of one arm they are going nowhere.
> 
> ...



I know the London grappling circuit well.
Not sparred with him but I was sparred with another UFC Brit (now ex, he won 1/3).
MMA grappling is very different to BJJ.

You a sub wrestler?


----------



## kodokan (Dec 2, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> I know the London grappling circuit well.
> Not sparred with him but I was sparred with another UFC Brit (now ex, he won 1/3).
> MMA grappling is very different to BJJ.
> 
> You a sub wrestler?


 
I train at BKK fighters in Colchester.

Im a bjj purple belt, but now do more submission wrestling.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Dec 2, 2011)

kodokan said:


> I train at BKK fighters in Colchester.
> 
> Im a bjj purple belt, but now do more submission wrestling.



cool...those jigsaw mats must hurt.


----------



## kodokan (Dec 2, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> cool...those jigsaw mats must hurt.



Cheers, even have them in my garage, lol.


----------



## junglevip (Dec 2, 2011)

Is this the only active marshal arts thread please?  Would talking about traditional styles hijack it?


----------



## kodokan (Dec 3, 2011)

junglevip said:


> Is this the only active marshal arts thread please? Would talking about traditional styles hijack it?


 
Why not start a a new thread ?

Im also intrested in some.


----------



## kodokan (Dec 3, 2011)

BJJ v other martial arts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQXlg7DksvY

BJJ is all about taking you time, its leverage rather then strength.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 3, 2011)

Prelims being shown now free on facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/UFC?sk=app_128953167177144


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Dec 4, 2011)

kodokan said:


> BJJ v other martial arts
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQXlg7DksvY
> 
> BJJ is all about taking you time, its leverage rather then strength.



Returning to that point about the environments in which martial arts evolve, BJJ is great for challenge fights, 'cos that's what Maeda spent 20 years doing after leaving the Kodokan, but not so great (due to groundwork emphasis) in situations where a couple of your opponents mates are going to start kicking the crap out of you if the fight goes to the ground. In that situation, Muay Thai or one of the more pragmatic karate or kickboxing styles might be more optimal.


----------



## junglevip (Dec 4, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Returning to that point about the environments in which martial arts evolve, BJJ is great for challenge fights, 'cos that's what Maeda spent 20 years doing after leaving the Kodokan, but not so great (due to groundwork emphasis) in situations where a couple of your opponents mates are going to start kicking the crap out of you if the fight goes to the ground. In that situation, Muay Thai or one of the more pragmatic karate or kickboxing styles might be more optimal.



Indeed


----------



## al (Dec 11, 2011)

ufc 140 - that was a corker!


----------



## Structaural (Dec 11, 2011)

Lot of ambulance's last night!



Spoiler: spoiler



Big Nog's arm:


----------



## 100% masahiko (Dec 11, 2011)

kodokan said:


> John Maguire submits BJJ black belt Andy Roberts in the submission 1000 event last Summer.(no chokes or cranks allowed)
> 
> This is sublime performance, submits him with a reverse kimora. Maguires strength is his slightly unconventional style, note his butterfly guard much more effective then the standard BJJ one.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPZzqyibON0



Is this the one Strauss won in?
Yes, he was a surprise (Maguire).

Bernie - That Gracie vid is funny...
Too much emphasis on sport fightings imo...

Funnily, a couple of brown belts and a purple at my last school had the utter shit kicked out of em in a club in Clapham...
Made me laugh when their tormentors were ordinary rugby toffs


----------



## Structaural (Dec 12, 2011)

I rewatched 138 in the run up to 140, Maguire really knows his stuff and a great comeback he made after getting chinned with a right cross. Best ground game I've seen on a british fighter. When's he fighting again?
You guys fight out of Peterborough? I grew up there....

Question for you submission artists - is it possible to break a neck with a particular guillotine, neck crank? Badly done position or something. Or is this highly unlikely?



Spoiler: UFC 140 highlight



You don't see this much:





[spoiler/]

Here's the Gracie breakdown on the Nog/Mir fight (and others), even they struggled to recreate it :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yAx-Uzw-Xs&feature=g-all


----------



## Structaural (Dec 19, 2011)

I guess that was a stupid question.

Worst way to get up:


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Dec 30, 2011)

From MMA pre-history, one Numbers might enjoy more:


----------



## Structaural (Jan 2, 2012)

Legend. Shame there's no part 2 to that though.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 6, 2012)

Interesting article about Traditional and MMA styles:

http://www.wimsblog.com/2009/08/mma-sucks-traditional-martial-arts-suck-more/

The comments are good too...


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 12, 2012)

Can I just plug my mate's martial art's training school, which I've just started going to.
http://birminghammartialarts.co.uk/
run by Jon Law


----------



## Structaural (Jan 15, 2012)

Spoiler: ...!


----------



## gawkrodger (Jan 17, 2012)

Yeh, great event


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2012)

So, Rashad Evans v Phil Davis and Chael Sonnen v Michael Bisping tonight (1am-3am on ESPN I think). Im quite looking forward to this one, but I make no predictions.


----------



## Deareg (Jan 28, 2012)

Decent stream here if anyone's interested.

http://www.firstrow.tv/watch/104570/1/watch-ufc-on-fox:-preliminaries.html


----------



## Corax (Jan 29, 2012)

As only an occasional MMA watcher, I've heard Rashad's name plenty but not seen him fight before.  Tbh, He didn't look all that.  Outmuscled Davis more than outfought him when they were upright, although clearly dominant on the floor.  I saw a few of Bones early fights and he was incredible.  Rashad didn't look like he was in the same class.

I've not watched that much though, so interested to know if that's a fair take on it or not.


----------



## Deareg (Jan 29, 2012)

Corax said:


> As only an occasional MMA watcher, I've heard Rashad's name plenty but not seen him fight before. Tbh, He didn't look all that. Outmuscled Davis more than outfought him when they were upright, although clearly dominant on the floor. I saw a few of Bones early fights and he was incredible. Rashad didn't look like he was in the same class.
> 
> I've not watched that much though, so interested to know if that's a fair take on it or not.


Rashad is one of the most boring fighters in MMA he was even worse when he first came into the UFC, I was sorry that I bothered sitting up for his fight and was even gonna go to be at the end of round 4.


----------



## Corax (Jan 29, 2012)

Phew. Not just me failing to appreciate something then. 

I quite liked Davis. Spinning heels, knee feints with downward punches, some stuff that (IMHO) is more enjoyable to watch, even though it may be a bit more risky to attempt.


----------



## Deareg (Jan 29, 2012)

Corax said:


> Phew. Not just me failing to appreciate something then.
> 
> I quite liked Davis. Spinning heels, knee feints with downward punches, some stuff that (IMHO) is more enjoyable to watch, even though it may be a bit more risky to attempt.


Fucking risky when Bishping tries 'em, I have seen milk turn quicker than him.


----------



## Corax (Jan 29, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Fucking risky when Bishping tries 'em, I have seen milk turn quicker than him.


I started off quite liking Bisping, both as a fighter and a bloke. But the more I've seen of him the less that's been the case. Any other UK fighters coming into contention?

ETA: Actually, I'd be interested in watching Dutch, German and any other non-American (continent) fighters tbh.  It just seems to be totally dominated by that side of the atlantic, and I always love an underdog.


----------



## Deareg (Jan 29, 2012)

There are a few good English ones, Dan Hardy, Paul Daley, Ross pointon, A young fella from Brighton John something, his name escapes me right now, he is only 22, but probably the most rounded of all the English fighters, wrestling seems to be where our fighters are losing out as the Yanks just usually grab hole of them and sit on them for 5 minutes,

I have never liked Bishping as a person since I saw him on the Ultimate fighter.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 30, 2012)

I was impressed with Bisping on Saturday, I thought Chael was going to completely rag-doll him. I thought Bisping won it, but wasn't surprised by the decision. Yeah he's a bit of a twat.
I thought Rashad fought well, nothing too exciting but he is the most interesting match up for Bones as Jones's wrestling is what makes him shine, he also has knock-out power, probably still lose though. Davis just needs to improve his stand-up (as does rashad).
Man, was Jon Jones a rubbish commentator.  Was this the first UFC Fox fight? They seemed to have loads of pundits all of a sudden...
Cheers for the link btw, I ended up staying up til 4am...

Did you mean, english welterweight John Maguire? He is fighting in April, at the Nog fight on the main card, he's one to watch, on a 6-win streak, excellent ground game.


----------



## elbows (Jan 30, 2012)

Saturdays show was a bit weird, most of the fighters on the main card had quite disappointing performances, with the exception of Bisping. I don't like the bloke either, but then again Im not supposed to, as both he, Chael and a couple of other MMA fighters are well schooled in the arts of using pro-wrestling style promos to increase interest in their fights. So Bisping plays upon the hatred, although Im sure he is actually a dick too. Chael was pretty lacklustre in this fight, heard he had a difficult weight-cut but I also wonder if age is catching up with him. If I cared about the bloke I might be a bit worried about his brain too, he always thrived off of talking shit in interviews but in recent months he showed some signs of becoming completely disconnected from reality. But Diaz is probably the king of crazy right now, looking forward to his upcoming fight and hope that eventual when George St Pierre is injury free those two will get their match.

This wasn't the first UFC Fox show but it was the first real large important one on the main Fox broadcast channel that they really decided to push. I thought the presentation was a bit cheesy and Jones staring at his notes was uncomfortable. And what a fight to start off the show, bloody awful.


----------



## Deareg (Jan 30, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I was impressed with Bisping on Saturday, I thought Chael was going to completely rag-doll him. I thought Bisping won it, but wasn't surprised by the decision. Yeah he's a bit of a twat.
> I thought Rashad fought well, nothing too exciting but he is the most interesting match up for Bones as Jones's wrestling is what makes him shine, he also has knock-out power, probably still lose though. Davis just needs to improve his stand-up (as does rashad).
> Man, was Jon Jones a rubbish commentator.  Was this the first UFC Fox fight? They seemed to have loads of pundits all of a sudden...
> Cheers for the link btw, I ended up staying up til 4am...
> ...



This fella, I have been really impressed with him in the 3 fights I have seen.
http://www.johnhathaway.co.uk/


----------



## Structaural (Jan 31, 2012)

Ah yes, except for his Mike Pyle fight he's pretty much won every fight. Needs to update his website...


----------



## Deareg (Feb 16, 2012)

UFC free now on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/UFC?sk=app_247211121995467


----------



## Anonymous1 (Feb 19, 2012)

Great card for Japan, should be a treat.
Pettis v Lauzon, now thats a fight.
It's hard to doubt Frankie but i think Henderson is taking his belt.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 26, 2012)

woo hoo! my mate won fri night on the gold coast (tko 1st round) and is now ranked 7th in his weight div in aus. the whole crew then went and sparred with john wayne parr sat am!
bonus is my second son ha been his permanent training partner for the preparation for this fight and my son can tap/tko him! so now the boy has his first paid fight in april.

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Greg-Atzori-55009


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 26, 2012)

Anonymous1 said:


> Great card for Japan, should be a treat.
> Pettis v Lauzon, now thats a fight.
> It's hard to doubt Frankie but i think Henderson is taking his belt.


 
going down the pub to watch this at 1 on the big screen


----------



## elbows (Mar 5, 2012)

Oops, Strikeforce let a neo-nazi child rapist fight on the show:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mma-c...ing-strikeforce-brandon-saling-182237629.html


----------



## Corax (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm just catching up with TUF - and fuck me if Bisping isn't the worst ringside coach imaginable. It's like he's living in a reverse timeframe. His fighter gets kneed in the head - "watch the knees!". His fighter gets hammered with an uppercut - "watch the uppercut!". His fighter gets kicked in the legs - "watch the low kicks!". Furrfu Michael, you need to tell them that shit *before* it happens.


----------



## Corax (Mar 6, 2012)

Now watched the finale.

Didn't want Dodson to win because he's a creepy little shit. I'd bet money that there are plenty of kids out there that got bullied by him in school, and who no one would have believed because he has this 'funny', 'wacky' shtick. Nonetheless, he's certainly some explosive fighter. Will be really interesting to see him go up against someone with more experience.  Hope he loses and has the smile wiped off his face in all honesty.

Wanted Diego to win, and really happy that he did. I think that with his attitude as well as his talent, he stands a good chance of really making it.  I hope so; I find the guy really likeable as well as entertaining in the cage.

I wanted Mayhem to win the coaches' fight until it actually started. But Bisping was just so much the better fighter, it was a total mismatch. The guy's still a bit of a dick, but the win was well deserved. There was lots of talk of Miller having trained more than he ever had for this fight, but tbh he looked... saggy. There didn't seem to be much muscle tone going on there. I know sweet fuck all about conditioning etc though, so I'd be interested in what anyone with more of a clue about that kind of thing thought.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 6, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> woo hoo! my mate won fri night on the gold coast (tko 1st round) and is now ranked 7th in his weight div in aus. the whole crew then went and sparred with john wayne parr sat am!
> bonus is my second son ha been his permanent training partner for the preparation for this fight and my son can tap/tko him! so now the boy has his first paid fight in april.
> http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Greg-Atzori-55009


 
Nice one, keep us informed.


----------



## Corax (Mar 6, 2012)

Just been looking at a few fighters on wikpedia. There's one term used that I'm not familiar and google isn't helping with:

What's winning/losing "by highlight reel KO"?


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 6, 2012)

Corax said:


> Didn't want Dodson to win because he's a creepy little shit....he's certainly some explosive fighter.


 
Agreed, on both accounts.



Corax said:


> There was lots of talk of Miller having trained more than he ever had for this fight, but tbh he looked...


 
TBF _every_ fighter has the best training camp of their lives pre-fight
The post-fight interviews tell a different story though.

As for conditioning, it can take different forms to different people.
Clearly it's about stressing the body but it depends on what your game is (speciality if you have one)
or if your an all-rounder. There will be multiple exercise for each discipline.
see this as a basic description... http://www.brianmac.co.uk/conditon.htm
Some Mauy Thai practitioners are known to kick and punch banana tree's to condition their hands, shins an feet,
just as an example.

I think Miller's problem was he didn't take Bisping seriously. It appears he thought he would walk it
and didn't train/plan accordingly. He looked out of shape.
Just my 2cents though.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 6, 2012)

Corax said:


> Just been looking at a few fighters on wikpedia. There's one term used that I'm not familiar and google isn't helping with:
> 
> What's winning/losing "by highlight reel KO"?


 
Probably a spectacular KO, hence likely to end up on a highlight reel of great KO's.
If you know the fight and it was simply a half decent KO, please remember wiki is prone to..... you get what i mean.


----------



## Corax (Mar 6, 2012)

Anonymous1 said:


> Probably a spectacular KO, hence likely to end up on a highlight reel of great KO's.
> If you know the fight and it was simply a half decent KO, please remember wiki is prone to..... you get what i mean.


No, it wasn't a fight I've seen, and was for one of the smaller organisations rather than UFC, Strikeforce etc - I had visions of it being some gimmick where close decisions are decided by a bizarre mechanism based on their fight highlights or something...


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 6, 2012)

Corax said:


> No, it wasn't a fight I've seen, and was for one of the smaller organisations rather than UFC, Strikeforce etc - I had visions of it being some gimmick where close decisions are decided by a bizarre mechanism based on their fight highlights or something...


 
It should be online somewhere to see and if they say it wasn't recorded i fail to see how it can be a highlight KO

I rarely go to youtube unless looking for something specific but spend some time looking at "best mma KO" type vids ,if you haven't already.
What a treat. There was one guy who won by a kick used in capoeira (brazilian dance style taught to disguise martial arts when all types were banned by the military rulers) and the commisioner at the event thought it was a thrown fight
'cause he had never seen anything like it!
Also if you haven't saw it look for the double KO where two guys throw a left hook and both land at the same time .


----------



## Corax (Mar 6, 2012)

I've seen some of those kinds of vids but they leave me a bit cold tbh.  The attraction of MMA for me is the courage and the technique, rather than seeing someone get knocked spark out.  Those KO videos seem to revel in the destruction a little too much for me.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 6, 2012)

Corax said:


> I've seen some of those kinds of vids but they leave me a bit cold tbh. The attraction of MMA for me is the courage and the technique, rather than seeing someone get knocked spark out. Those KO videos seem to revel in the destruction a little too much for me.


 
I see what you mean, i love the ground-game as well as the stand up. Submissions are beautiful and are just as good, if not better, on
a highlight reel.It just depends on your preference, if you have one, i suppose.
Best sport bar none, for me.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 6, 2012)

Anonymous1 said:


> Nice one, keep us informed.


\

i will, im so proud of him, he trained with the prison swat team last night, now just left to do the early sesh with craig glover (one of the best mt trainers out there )and him and greg are driving to the gold coast again thu to train with adrian pang. there is no meaningful work here, hes forfilled his obligations to get his 50 quid a week off the dole. got cert 3 in hospitality, bar and security but how *often do you get the chance to chase your dream?* i'l support him all the way baby! sadly his younger  brother,who is also real good just got diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis .. so hes gonna have to take a lot of time out


----------



## Structaural (Mar 6, 2012)




----------



## Corax (Mar 6, 2012)

Anonymous1 said:


> Best sport bar none, for me.


Not sure of that claim - apples and ballpoints etc.

But having just watched Bones vs Machido, I'll certainly concede that it's the only sport where you can strangle someone and not get arrested...


----------



## al (Mar 19, 2012)

So, The Ultimate Fighter is back, and live - anyone watched it? Some really good fights on the first episode and the second had an awesome super mega mind fuck pulled by Cruz on Faber's team - think this will be a very interesting series...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 4, 2012)

ooo! boy 2 has a fight at after shock next month


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2012)

Surprise drug test of multiple UFC fighters after a press conference recently resulted in Overeem testing positive for elevated testosterone levels.

I can't say Im shocked since I ranted about this sort of thing & him earlier in the year.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 7, 2012)

Becc Rowdy Hyatt, doing the business of promoting female MMA in the best possible way. love it.

http://www.facebook.com/rowdybec


----------



## tendril (Apr 15, 2012)

UFC Sweden



Spoiler



John Maguire looked good last night. Excellent defense on the ground and pulled an armbar out of the bag to seal the win


----------



## Deareg (Apr 15, 2012)

ESPN's coverage of the UFC is going from bad to fucking unwatchable, I am beginning to think that they are embarrassed to be associated with it.


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 16, 2012)

Corax said:


> I'm just catching up with TUF - and fuck me if Bisping isn't the worst ringside coach imaginable. It's like he's living in a reverse timeframe. His fighter gets kneed in the head - "watch the knees!". His fighter gets hammered with an uppercut - "watch the uppercut!". His fighter gets kicked in the legs - "watch the low kicks!". Furrfu Michael, you need to tell them that shit *before* it happens.


 
Somebody should have told Bisping to stay away from Dan Henderson's overhand right, really.

And they did. And he ignored them. And this what happened:



Oops.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 16, 2012)

tendril said:


> John Maguire last night.spoiler removed


 
mate, you could have waited a bit or spoiler tag. Oh well, I'll watch it anyway.


----------



## tendril (Apr 16, 2012)

Structaural said:


> mate, you could have waited a bit or spoiler tag. Oh well, I'll watch it anyway.


soz


----------



## al (Apr 18, 2012)

so does anyone see any chance of Rashad winning on Saturday? I reckon it'll be a Bones KO or stoppage by cuts in the 3rd... Should be a great fight.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 18, 2012)

Bones to win, but I'd love Rashad to. He's probably got more insight into his weaknesses than most. But I think Bones is just too big for him and he's in Jackson's camp...


----------



## Structaural (Apr 18, 2012)

tendril said:


> soz


 


Spoiler: spoiler



on the upside it did allow me to feel very smug when Sonnen said he would lose. 
Great fight.
Love how he let him hold the Kimura until he got his right leg free and then pow.
Gypsy Jujisu


----------



## Structaural (Apr 18, 2012)

What a fight!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 22, 2012)

ha! one of my boys posted that ^^ fight on sherdog and it went viral, he got a really nice message from the promotor thanking him  Pauling is someone that they train with sometimes.

today Rashad went the distance but really he just couldn't make it past Jone's reach in either arms or legs.


----------



## Deareg (Apr 22, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> ha! one of my boys posted that ^^ fight on sherdog and it went viral, he got a really nice message from the promotor thanking him  Pauling is someone that they train with sometimes.
> 
> today Rashad went the distance but really he just couldn't make it past Jone's reach in either arms or legs.


Spoilers mate.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 23, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Spoilers mate.


 
sorry, forgot about the time difference


----------



## The Boy (Apr 24, 2012)

Was actually a pretty good card on Saturday.  Didn't bother with the main event because I knew the outcome, but some decent fights.  Oh, and the Brendan Schaub fight was, for some reason, hilarious.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 24, 2012)




----------



## Structaural (Apr 24, 2012)

Gracie breakdown UFC 145


----------



## tendril (Apr 24, 2012)

al said:


> so does anyone see any chance of Rashad winning on Saturday? I reckon it'll be a Bones KO or stoppage by cuts in the 3rd... Should be a great fight.





Spoiler



well you were wrong on two counts there


----------



## al (Apr 25, 2012)

tendril said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> well you were wrong on two counts there


 


Spoiler



yep! about as wrong as possible!  I really didn't see it going that way, but I guess JBJ showed he's got another way of winning in his bag - play it safe and dominate for a decision.... Hendo's next - I'm not going to make any predictions on that one, but I think JBJ will be the champ for some time yet....


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 25, 2012)

so when do you lot get to see the actual fight? i saw it sunday midday down the pub? 

my boys Intergrated martial arts

http://www.integratedacademy.com/8_MMA Team.htm

have now affiliated with Peter de Breen bjj

http://www.peterdebeen.com/

and craig glover of street smart is also a great muay thai coach who has turned out world/commonwealth champions.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Street-Smart-Thai-Boxing-Centre-Hervey-Bay/111110608914386

they also drive to the sunshine coast once a week to fight at shindo

http://www.shindomma.net/senior-classes

my sons were thinking of moving to the gold coast because of the gyms but tbh this area is flying ahead with training opportunities right now and because they have been a part of it here for years they have the added bonus of being big fish in a small pond which is good for their confidence.

how many on this thread practise as well as follow it?


----------



## al (Apr 25, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> so when do you lot get to see the actual fight? i saw it sunday midday down the pub?


 
that's my timezone too  Start the day with an overpriced Guinness and some fighting! It's better than trying to stay up and watch it on some dodgy stream in the wee hours and inevitably falling asleep before the main event...


----------



## tendril (Apr 25, 2012)

al said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> yep! about as wrong as possible!  I really didn't see it going that way, but I guess JBJ showed he's got another way of winning in his bag - play it safe and dominate for a decision.... Hendo's next - I'm not going to make any predictions on that one, but I think JBJ will be the champ for some time yet....





Spoiler



Someone will crack the puzzle. It seems to me that Jones is trying a new technique every fight. He didn't throw one spinning elbow (that I recall) so his camp must think that that is a predictable move now. Did some unusual kicks this time too. What we want to see is Anderson Silva fight him (he's fought at light middle before I believe). Now that would be a fight to see!


----------



## Structaural (May 7, 2012)

UFC on Fox 3 was certainly worth a watch. Saturday night it was on...


----------



## Deareg (May 7, 2012)

Structaural said:


> UFC on Fox 3 was certainly worth a watch. Saturday night it was on...


Is it possible to get in on UK Sky?


----------



## Structaural (May 7, 2012)

I've no idea, mate, I'm in Holland and you can't get anything here. I've to download a day later. It's on most torrent sites now, though.
Harder to find on Usenet as the UFC keep sending take-down notices to Giganews. Dunno about Astraweb.

Gracie breakdown (spoilers!)


----------



## The Boy (May 7, 2012)

ESPN showed it live and again last night.  Was a good evening's fighting.


----------



## Structaural (May 22, 2012)

Judo/wrestling takedowns in MMA


----------



## tendril (May 22, 2012)

The Boy said:


> ESPN showed it live and again last night. Was a good evening's fighting.


Was that the fight card with the Korean Zombie headlining? Fucking cracking fight that one.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jun 5, 2012)

The Outlaw, a good documentary has been made, from vice, about Dan Hardy.
It was made in the run up to his May 26th fight with Dwayne "Bang" Ludwig.
Love him or loathe him, it's a great insight into the mind/life of a top MMA competitor.
Well worth a look.


----------



## junglevip (Jun 8, 2012)

Bakunin said:


> Somebody should have told Bisping to stay away from Dan Henderson's overhand right, really.
> 
> And they did. And he ignored them. And this what happened:
> 
> ...




The punch to the head while the chap was on the ground was quite ungentlemanly imho


----------



## junglevip (Jun 9, 2012)

MMA is overrated anyway. Spent over half an hour studying MMA on youtube and not once have I seen any of them scale a building using little metal claw thingies.


----------



## junglevip (Jun 9, 2012)

If you think those guys are hard watch this


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 11, 2012)

my son on the left


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 11, 2012)




----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 11, 2012)




----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 11, 2012)

my sons trainer has just flown to sydney to try out for the TUF competition! all very exciting


----------



## junglevip (Jun 11, 2012)

Is it too late at 45ish to start doing something like this I have been inactive for a while?   It would be for fitness and coordination, I dont fancy meeting that chap in the picture above (the one with the busted nose).

EDIT:
I sort of regret my daft posts now that I would like a serious question answered


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 12, 2012)

Tbf most people are retiring at 40 ish but why not go along and find out? It's a great way to get fit and you could always do muaythai or jujitsu to start with? Fwiwthe guy above is an absolute sweetheart who works as a,disability support worker ; )


----------



## junglevip (Jun 12, 2012)

Thanks for that.  I came across this and thought I would post because it highlights some of the "snake oil merchants" it is meant as a serious post and not intended to cause offence.


----------



## elbows (Jun 14, 2012)

I laughed when I saw this on UFC whenever it was, a few weeks back now?


----------



## Structaural (Jun 14, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> my son on the left


 
You must be very proud (and a bit worried). Good luck with the TUF.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> I laughed when I saw this on UFC whenever it was, a few weeks back now?


 
someone made one with sound effects, can't find it now, though...

This guy has some fast kicks, from UCMMA 28:


----------



## tendril (Jun 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> someone made one with sound effects, can't find it now, though...
> 
> This guy has some fast kicks, from UCMMA 28:






Spoiler



got his arse kicked though


----------



## Structaural (Jun 21, 2012)

eh?


----------



## Structaural (Jun 21, 2012)




----------



## tendril (Jun 21, 2012)

Structaural said:


> eh?


UT blocked at work. I was assuming that the video was of Antonio Silva, who did get his arse kicked by Cain Velasquez


----------



## Structaural (Jun 21, 2012)

No, it's Galore Bofando vs Wendle Lewis at a UK event. Galore kicks like a TKD Ando...


----------



## Structaural (Jun 21, 2012)

Bought the Gracie Bullyproof series a week ago, started doing them with my 6 year old daughter. She loves it. And wadyaknow, I'm learning too. 
http://gracieacademy.com/bully_proof.asp


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 24, 2012)

did anyone watch the Maynard V Guida fight. such weirdness!


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jun 24, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> did anyone watch the Maynard V Guida fight. such weirdness!


 
As often as i've wished it, even screaming at the tv, it's the first time i've saw a ref stop a fight
to tell a fighter to start fighting! Guida went down in my book after that (which means fuck all).
I was hoping he'd tap in that guillotine. The rest of the card was good though.

Watching the 147 prelims now. atleast Wanderlei/Franklin is a guaranteed fight.
Two shows in two days and then a couple of weeks and it's Silva/Sonnen 2!


----------



## starfish (Jun 24, 2012)

So is it worth watching. Ive just turned over.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jun 24, 2012)

starfish said:


> So is it worth watching. Ive just turned over.


 
aye, good fights so far.
Some great fighters been found on TUF Brasil, prob the best talent pool on 1 show since the original season.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 24, 2012)

I really enjoyed 147, shame Silva didn't win but really, i think,  Franklin had it from the start. the other fights were good too, short and too the point, those Brazilians don't mess about!


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jun 26, 2012)

Here's a short 'n' sweet trailer for ufc 148: Believe Your Eyes.
Must look a bit shit to someone who's never saw MMA or Anderson in action.
No promo for Chael seems a bit harsh but then again with his mouth-size he's not short of promotion (or amusement).
Roll on 148!


----------



## al (Jun 28, 2012)

Silva v Sonnen II is gonna be pretty good I think, Silva seems to be taking this personally and getting a bit mad, whether that is good or bad for him we'll only find out on the night...

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/An...-Hes-Never-Going-to-Want-to-Fight-Again-43819


----------



## tendril (Jun 28, 2012)

al said:


> Silva v Sonnen II is gonna be pretty good I think, Silva seems to be taking this personally and getting a bit mad, whether that is good or bad for him we'll only find out on the night...
> 
> http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/An...-Hes-Never-Going-to-Want-to-Fight-Again-43819


 
Could be very good or very shit. Maybe Sonnen was lucky last time (obviously unlucky to then be tapped out), but no-one else seems to have been able to take Silva to the ground with such regularity and you can bet your shirt he's been working his takedown defence.


----------



## al (Jun 28, 2012)

tendril said:


> Could be very good or very shit. Maybe Sonnen was lucky last time (obviously unlucky to then be tapped out), but no-one else seems to have been able to take Silva to the ground with such regularity and you can bet your shirt he's been working his takedown defence.


 
What was surprising in the first fight though was Sonnen's ability to tag Silva in the stand-up, he got him with some good shots.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 1, 2012)

Anderson apparantly had a rib injury in the build up to the last fight. They mentioned it post-fight but i'm sure a few just thought it was an excuse
for his performance (or lack of).
There was a documentary out last year, Like Water, which followed his training camp and the fight.
It's worth a watch, decide for yourself.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 2, 2012)

I'm really looking forward to this. No idea how it's going to go down, but I hope Silva gets the win. 
Here's a good analysis of the two of them and why Chael did better than everyone else:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/7/1/3124601/ufc-148-judo-chop-anderson-silva-chael-sonnen-weaknesses


----------



## tendril (Jul 2, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I'm really looking forward to this. No idea how it's going to go down, but I hope Silva gets the win.
> Here's a good analysis of the two of them and why Chael did better than everyone else:
> http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/7/1/3124601/ufc-148-judo-chop-anderson-silva-chael-sonnen-weaknesses


good article


----------



## al (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm getting quite excited about this now - I think I've overdosed on opinion on it now though. I'll be getting up nice and early tomorrow to head down the pub and watch it with a fried breakfast and maybe a pint of Guinness if I'm feeling extravagant (Guinnes goes for about £6/7 a pint here!)

I have no idea how it's going to go, my heart wants to say it'll be Silva but I've developed a strange kind of grudging respect for the crazy republican money launderer. If he wins though I can't imagine how unbearable he'll be....


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jul 8, 2012)

please, Please take a second to vote for Greg Atzori. 
http://apps.facebook.com/offerpop/C...93&p=160710350628946&v=Entry&id=439175&rest=1


----------



## The Groke (Jul 8, 2012)

al said:


> I have no idea how it's going to go, my heart wants to say it'll be Silva but I've developed a strange kind of grudging respect for the crazy republican money launderer. If he wins though I can't imagine how unbearable he'll be....


 
He is a massive twat in many respects, but I can't help feeling that the division and the sport will benefit from the dethroning of Silva...

So yeah, I sort of want Sonnen to win, against my better judgement.

That said, I have never seen Silva so riled - it may well be that he goes out there with a whole new level of intensity and focus, in which case Sonnen is going to get beaten down hard.

I am predicting a Silva win via stoppage.


----------



## elbows (Jul 8, 2012)

I can't make any predictions after their last fight, and they aren't getting any younger.

I want Sonnen to lose quite badly, although some of the hate stems from the fact that he knows how to talk like a classic pro wrestling heel, its deliberate heat. 

Hope the rest of the card is exciting otherwise Im going to be impossibly tired by the time their fight starts.


----------



## al (Jul 8, 2012)

The Groke said:


> I am predicting a Silva win via stoppage.


 
I hope so, if it goes to a decision I think it'll be Sonnen's fight.


----------



## al (Jul 8, 2012)

Are we not doing spoilers in this thread?

nnnggggg, must not talk about that s******* b*** f***


----------



## al (Jul 8, 2012)

Spoiler


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jul 8, 2012)




----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 8, 2012)

Came across this classic fight on YouTube.

Cro Cop fighting the late great Andy Hug.


----------



## Corax (Jul 10, 2012)

Just watched the two main events. Something seemed a little odd about Tito's stats...



Spoiler









2 kicks, and he landed 67% of them?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jul 10, 2012)

this kid, Tyler Manawaroa,  white shorts... is only 17. he's well worth following. hes in the same club as my sons. Intergrated mma.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 11, 2012)

Spoiler:  Kind of ironic, cover of last months Fighter magazine


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2012)

Corax said:


> Just watched the two main events. Something seemed a little odd about Tito's stats...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler



Doesnt that mean he threw 3 and landed 2 of them?


----------



## Corax (Jul 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Doesnt that mean he threw 3 and landed 2 of them?





Spoiler






Spoiler



Super secure anti-spoiler protection!



Spoiler



Ah, it's landed not thrown! I clearly didn't read it properly! Nice one. I _*was*_ thinking it was a bit odd....


----------



## al (Jul 13, 2012)

Spoiler






Corax said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Structaural (Jul 13, 2012)

It's getting I N C E P T I O N spoilery in here.. 



Spoiler: SPOILER



Here I made a GIF of Silva's TDD in slo-mo (managed to d/l a 60fps feed):





[spoiler/]


----------



## al (Jul 13, 2012)

Structaural said:


> It's getting I N C E P T I O N spoilery in here..
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: SPOILER



Do you think he might have trained for that, just a little bit? 

{/spoiler] we've gone too deep - I don't know how to get out of spoiler mode!


----------



## Corax (Jul 13, 2012)

al said:


> Do you think he might have trained for that, just a little bit?
> 
> {/spoiler] we've gone too deep - I don't know how to get out of spoiler mode!





Spoiler






Spoiler






Spoiler






Spoiler






Spoiler



Spoiler


----------



## al (Jul 14, 2012)

Just finished my first ever MMA training session - the irony is that I don't think I could fight my way out of a wet paper bag at the moment....


----------



## al (Jul 22, 2012)

UFC 149- I wouldn't bother wasting the bandwidth or hard drive space- bit of a yawnfest..


----------



## Corax (Jul 22, 2012)

al said:


> UFC 149- I wouldn't bother wasting the bandwidth or hard drive space- bit of a yawnfest..


I disagree. Clements v Riddle was worth it on its own. Great fight.

And personally, I hope they never hold an event in Calgary again. The crowd were complete wankers. They should fuck off and watch WWE if that's what they're after.


----------



## al (Jul 23, 2012)

Corax said:


> I disagree. Clements v Riddle was worth it on its own. Great fight.
> 
> And personally, I hope they never hold an even in Calgary again. The crowd were complete wankers. They should fuck off and watch WWE if that's what they're after.


 

Unfortunately I only saw the last round of Clements/Riddle so couldn't really make a judgement - nice sub though...

I agree about the crowd, to an extent. The main event shouldn't have been booed as it was at least technically interesting but the other fights were atrocious. If I'd paid good money to see them I would have been thoroughly unhappy, however I don't really like booing at these things at all - it smacks a bit of the 'just bleed' mentality.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jul 28, 2012)

al said:


> UFC 149- I wouldn't bother wasting the bandwidth or hard drive space- bit of a yawnfest..


 
Wasn't it just! only 2 good fights from the whole card!


----------



## tendril (Jul 28, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> Wasn't it just! only 2 good fights from the whole card!


innit. And what's with all the hugging bollox??? Get a room fer fuck sake


----------



## Corax (Jul 29, 2012)

So the next TUF is Carwin vs Nelson as coaches.

Having only got into MMA in the last 18 months or so, I googled the two of them and looked for vids.

So Carwin, okay, compact build, low centre of gravity, tough striker, hard as nails.

So who's Roy Nelson...?



What, _seriously?  _


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 29, 2012)

Corax said:


> So who's Roy Nelson...?
> 
> What, _seriously?  _


 
Bruce Bluffer voice: "This man is a _*KUNG FU *_fighter!

Roy is a warrior, Your _always_ going to see a fight if his name is on the card.
He has lost some of his belly since those days.
He was a champion in the IFL and Dana had him go through Tuf to get into the UFC.
Dana was very doubtful of his ability to hold up against UFC competition, and has since eaten his words.

Have a look at his fight with JDS to see how tough this guy is.
Sadly imo he's just too small for the HW division but it's unlikely he'll move down.


----------



## Corax (Jul 29, 2012)

Anonymous1 said:


> Have a look at his fight with JDS to see how tough this guy is.


Looked but not found anything - you got a link?


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Looked but not found anything - you got a link?


 
Part of the Ufc 117 card.


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> So the next TUF is Carwin vs Nelson as coaches.
> 
> Having only got into MMA in the last 18 months or so, I googled the two of them and looked for vids.
> 
> ...





Corax said:


> So the next TUF is Carwin vs Nelson as coaches.
> 
> Having only got into MMA in the last 18 months or so, I googled the two of them and looked for vids.
> 
> ...





Thuggery.  Like a pair fighting over a lurcher.  Amateur boxing is ten times better


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

junglevip said:


> Thuggery. Like a pair fighting over a lurcher. Amateur boxing is ten times better


Not sure what your subtext is there, but for clarity - that fight's not representative of decent MMA at all IMO.  There's a _lot _of shit boxing out there too.


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Proffesional boxing is about five time better.  Imagine that fat geezer in the ring with Haye, Chisora or even Audley; I am not fans of these by any means but I am sure they would knock this pair over inside a round


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 30, 2012)

You're entitled to your view. I think people used to boxing always have trouble watching MMA due to the differences in stance that result from the much wider range of techniques available.

Those two weren't amazingly skilled, but they both looked like decent pros, although Nelson's beer-gut was a rather disturbing thing to see on a professional athlete (rather than say a professional darts player)


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Not sure what your subtext is there, but for clarity - that fight's not representative of decent MMA at all IMO. There's a _lot _of shit boxing out there too.


 
I am not so sure I haven't seen much as bad as that.  As for a subtext; there isn't one.  I am just a fight fan


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

junglevip said:


> Proffesional boxing is about five time better. Imagine that fat geezer in the ring with Haye, Chisora or even Audley; I am not fans of these by any means but I am sure they would knock this pair over inside a round


JDS would most likely obliterate Audley. Chisora or Haye may be a bit more even. But JDS is a fairly 1D fighter for MMA, he's just a striker IMO. Put any top boxer in a cage with the leading MMA fighter in their weight class and it would be over inside 3 minutes.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 30, 2012)

junglevip said:


> Proffesional boxing is about five time better. Imagine that fat geezer in the ring with Haye, Chisora or even Audley; I am not fans of these by any means but I am sure they would knock this pair over inside a round


 
Fat geezer with those guys under whose rules though? Boxing sure, he'd get battered.

Under MMA rules, I'd bet heavily that he'd submit them or strangle them unconscious in the first minute.

Edited to add: obviously if they spent a few years doing Muay Thai and Sombo or BJJ to get competent at the other skills required in MMA, then it'd be a more interesting fight.


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> You're entitled to your view. I think people used to boxing always have trouble watching MMA due to the differences in stance that result from the much wider range of techniques available.
> 
> Those two weren't amazingly skilled, but they both looked like decent pros, although Nelson's beer-gut was a rather disturbing thing to see on a professional athlete (rather than say a professional darts player)


 
I can watch a fight like that outside the Chinese take-away in Merthyr Tydfil most Saturdays whilst waiting for my spring rolls


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Fat geezer with those guys under whose rules though? Boxing sure, he'd get battered.
> 
> Under MMA rules, I'd bet heavily that he'd submit them or strangle them unconscious in the first minute.
> 
> Edited to add: obviously if they spent a few years doing Muay Thai and Sombo or BJJ to get competent at the other skills required in MMA, then it'd be a more interesting fight.


 
Not a chance


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Fat geezer with those guys under whose rules though? Boxing sure, he'd get battered.
> 
> Under MMA rules, I'd bet heavily that he'd submit them or strangle them unconscious in the first minute.
> 
> Edited to add: obviously if they spent a few years doing Muay Thai and Sombo or BJJ to get competent at the other skills required in MMA, then it'd be a more interesting fight.


 
I'd doubt that.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 30, 2012)

*shrug* ... you don't know what you're talking about mate.


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> JDS would most likely obliterate Audley. Chisora or Haye may be a bit more even. But JDS is a fairly 1D fighter for MMA, he's just a striker IMO. Put any top boxer in a cage with the leading MMA fighter in their weight class and it would be over inside 3 minutes.


 
How much have you done of either (not having a pissing high competition, just an interested fight fan willing to learn)


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> *shrug* ... you don't know what you're talking about mate.


 
Politely put.  I disagree though but thanks for being a gent about it


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 30, 2012)

I suppose to some extent it depends on what experience of other martial arts your hypothetical boxer has.

If it's minimal, i.e. anything less than a few months working hard with pro coaches, then the overwhelming probability is that he's going to get dragged to the floor and strangled or submitted by any half decent MMA professional of around the same weight.

Sure the boxer might get a KO in before that happens, but MMA guy is going to be well aware of that and intent on taking it to the floor.

He's not going to be trading punches because he knows that's a mugs game with a boxer. He's going to cover up and then do something like shoot in and grab the legs or clinch and then throw from there. He might not have the defensive skills (against boxing techniques) of a top pro boxer, but he's going to have let's say 70-80% of that capability if he's able to survive in professional MMA.

The boxer is going to be more like 10-20% effective in dealing with all the other tricks in the MMA arsenal though. He's probably not going to be able to deal with someone shooting his legs away or throwing him from a clinch and once he's on the ground any decent MMA fighter is going to be able to almost completely neutralise his punching.

You _can_ punch in MMA ground fighting, but you need a high degree of wrestling skill to provide a base for the hand strikes. If you don't have that, you'll get submitted pronto.

If he's done the work on kicks, throws and groundwork though, then the hypothetical boxer is not a boxer for this purpose. He's an MMA guy who is very good at hand strikes.


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

junglevip said:


> How much have you done of either (not having a pissing high competition, just an interested fight fan willing to learn)


lol

I'm not totally inexperienced, but I'll decline to answer because I don't for a second believe it's relevant.  I'm a shit painter and can't play guitar for toffee, but I can appreciate and compare the relative merits of pieces of art and music.


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

I am yet to be convinced by MMA but dont get me wrong there are things in boxing that are not so good. But to me; the clip that I commented on was on a par with this:


I mean no offence, though I am critical

Its worth pointing out that in boxing there are some really dirty tricks and I have seen thing done that should have landed the fighter in jail. Hohum


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> lol
> 
> I'm not totally inexperienced, but I'll decline to answer because I don't for a second believe it's relevant. I'm a shit painter and can't play guitar for toffee, but I can appreciate and compare the relative merits of pieces of art and music.


 

Yeah but if you played a guitar for a few weeks you'd have a better understanding and would probably appreciate good guitar playing more.  That's most peoples experience anyway(so I am told) and was certainly mine


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

The clip was posted *because* it's crap.  You may have started off from a misconception here...


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> The clip was posted *because* it's crap. You may have started off from a misconception here...


 
OOops


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

junglevip said:


> Yeah but if you played a guitar for a few weeks you'd have a better understanding and would probably appreciate good guitar playing more. That's most peoples experience anyway(so I am told) and was certainly mine


Fair enough.  I've trained in Judo, Boxing and Wadokai Karate.  Not much, and not any more, but enough to gain that level of appreciation.


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

junglevip said:


> OOops


Fukin lol.


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

I'll persevere a bit longer but it does look very clumsy


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Fair enough. I've trained in Judo, Boxing and Wadokai Karate. Not much, and not any more, but enough to gain that level of appreciation.


 
Similar to me then; I might just be a one eyed boxing lover


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 30, 2012)

Prizefighting, which originally involved weapons and wrestling, first got rid of the weapons in the 18thC, then got rid of the wrestling in the 19thC.

Modern boxing has spent a couple of centuries evolving as a big-money _spectator_ sport and away from its roots in the practical martial arts. So of course it _looks_ better. That's the whole point.

MMA consciously tries to introduce more realism, which means throws and groundwork and that's exactly why it tends to look more than a fight outside a chippy than a 'noble science'

Doesn't mean that there isn't lots of science involved in doing it at the top level though. It's just that when you include wrestling, when an opponent can grab your lead hand to create an opening for a power punch, when he can hook away your lead leg, use his elbows, knees and throw you from a clinch, or sit on your chest and then punch you repeatedly in the face, then things will tend to get a bit ugly.



Goodridge (black bloke) was a former Canadian Super-Heavyweight amateur boxing champ and world class K1 kick-boxer. He dealt out a number of savage beatings during his career in MMA too.

Fedor (white bloke) wasn't quite good enough to make the Russian Olympic Judo team (I think he was a reserve) but later went on to do rather well in MMA.


----------



## junglevip (Jul 30, 2012)

Yeah ok, the white fella looked like a tidy boxer conversely; its the bit at the end where the black geezer gets punched and kicked whilst on the floor that turns by stomach a bit.

I think the violence might be to gruesome for me.  Thanks for the help though


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

junglevip said:


> Yeah ok, the white fella looked like a tidy boxer conversely; its the bit at the end where the black geezer gets punched and kicked whilst on the floor that turns by stomach a bit.
> 
> I think the violence might be to gruesome for me. Thanks for the help though


I initially felt exactly the same way.

For me, watching The Ultimate Fighter (the televised competition for a UFC contract) converted me entirely.  Watching that taught me about the tactics and the skills that I would never have realised were going on otherwise.  You also start to realise just how damn tough these guys are, when they get repeatedly slugged in the face with knees and elbows, then get up at the end and give the other bloke a big hug.  I've stopped worrying so much about them getting hurt, because I reckon unless you've got a skeleton of steel you probably don't get much further than your first bout.

I do worry a bit about what might be going on in amateur MMA gyms, but at the top level they appear to be able to cope.

Download The Ultimate Fighter: Team Bisping vs. Team Miller series off bittorrent.  See what you think.  I guarantee you'll be hooked.


----------



## tendril (Jul 30, 2012)

Roy is ace. Never shy to get bloody and can take a hurt full of punches. Only man to last 3 rounds with JDS. I like him. And his belly. Makes a change to all the adonises out there. Sort of chap that would be very good in a bar brawl.


----------



## tendril (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> I initially felt exactly the same way.
> 
> For me, watching The Ultimate Fighter (the televised competition for a UFC contract) converted me entirely. Watching that taught me about the tactics and the skills that I would never have realised were going on otherwise. You also start to realise just how damn tough these guys are, when they get repeatedly slugged in the face with knees and elbows, then get up at the end and give the other bloke a big hug. I've stopped worrying so much about them getting hurt, because I reckon unless you've got a skeleton of steel you probably don't get much further than your first bout.
> 
> ...


They use much less well padded gloves than boxers so the risk of serious brain injury is a lot less. You can't hit someone with bare fists that hard without breaking your hand.


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

tendril said:


> They use much less well padded gloves than boxers so the risk of serious brain injury is a lot less. You can't hit someone with bare fists that hard without breaking your hand.


Very counter-intuitive, but I guess that makes some sort of sense.


----------



## tendril (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Very counter-intuitive, but I guess that makes some sort of sense.


The damage the brain receives is through movement within the cranium. As it is soft, if the head moves quickly the brain moves juswt slightly afterwards (if that makes sense). To hit the head hard enough to move it significantly requires a well padded hand. MMA is all blood but with much less actual brain damage. That is why it gets licensed.


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

tendril said:


> The damage the brain receives is through movement within the cranium. As it is soft, if the head moves quickly the brain moves juswt slightly afterwards (if that makes sense). To hit the head hard enough to move it significantly requires a well padded hand.


Sure - wasn't disputing it - I'd just always assumed the opposite really.

Greater chance of breaking bones, but lower chance of brain damage?


----------



## tendril (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Sure - wasn't disputing it - I'd just always assumed the opposite really.
> 
> Greater chance of breaking bones, but lower chance of brain damage?


exactly. And there are many sports where broken bones are a real possibility.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 30, 2012)

James Toney  v Randy Couture ?
Okay, not exactly in their prime but still, that's what i think would happen to most boxers who tried MMA without serious work
on a ground game.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 30, 2012)

Anonymous1 said:


> James Toney v Randy Couture ?
> Okay, not exactly in their prime but still, that's what i think would happen to most boxers who tried MMA without serious work
> on a ground game.


 
Ah OK. Hadn't heard about that one, but it seems to be a perfect example of what I was describing above.



How much work had Toney done on MMA skills? Not very much by the look of that.


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

tendril said:


> exactly. And there are many sports where broken bones are a real possibility.


Yes, there are!

Are you reading my posts in a defensive manner, or am I reading your replies that way?  I'm genuinely not sure!


----------



## tendril (Jul 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Yes, there are!
> 
> Are you reading my posts in a defensive manner, or am I reading your replies that way? I'm genuinely not sure!


I'm not being defensive, just confirming what you have said.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 30, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Ah OK. Hadn't heard about that one, but it seems to be a perfect example of what I was describing above.
> 
> 
> 
> How much work had Toney done on MMA skills? Not very much by the look of that.




I'm sure he must've had a few lessons, if only yo work on hid takedown defence.
But pre-fight he was all mouth about mma fighters couldn't hang with a boxing pro long enough to get him dow... bla blah
You saw what happened.

He won't be the last to try and i welcome that as it can only help the sport, but i'm sure the next few in line will/should
take it more seriously.

But consider this....
Your a top boxing pro. Mayweather for instance (hold on!) He just fought at light middleweight (147-155lbs).
He would be up against the likes of Ben Henderson and Frankie Edgar (both fighting for UFC 155lbs lightweight belt) MMA wise.
Now of course Mayweather could box their heads of all day long, even wee Frankie who is utilises great boxing in the octagon.
But how good is "Money" off his back? He better have some skills in that department or have a TDD like chuck's.
If not my money is on him getting FUCKED up.

Now to get to my actual point ( aye, i have one) How Willing is a top class boxing competitor going to be when it comes to
learning BJJ, if he has an ego that will be a big problem for him. He will be getting schooled, just as everyone has to learn,
but an ego like mayweather's couldn't handle being regularly tapped by people he would see as inferior.
That makes it doubly hard for a pro-boxer to have a serious go at it, but i hope more do.
Better for us to watch..


----------



## tendril (Jul 31, 2012)

Anonymous1 said:


> I'm sure he must've had a few lessons, if only yo work on hid takedown defence.
> But pre-fight he was all mouth about mma fighters couldn't hang with a boxing pro long enough to get him dow... bla blah
> You saw what happened.
> 
> ...


Be interesting to see a top flight middleweight pro boxer go against Silva, who isn't known for taking it to the ground. He's more of a counter striker. I wonder if he would resort to takedowns or if he would outstrike them?


----------



## Structaural (Jul 31, 2012)

He'd kick them in the head and knee them in the face (see his fight against slugger Chris Leben which he won with 97% striking accuracy and got hit once), or he'd actually outbox them - boxers often rely on the big gloves to block, you can't do that with MMA gloves. Silva's said numerous times that he'd like to fight Roy Jones Jr (I think he'd lose under boxing rules) . Interestingly he's actually fought 2 boxing bouts (not against any kind of contender), lost 1 and won 1. This was years ago though. He's also won a bunch of Muay Thai bouts, mostly with his 'anchor punch' and follow ups. Lee Murray is probably the best stand-up fighter Anderson has faced in MMA.

Big Country would do to any of those boxers exactly what he did to Cro-cop, take-down, mounted crucifix - head shots...  Maybe even simply asphyxiate them with his belly.  He's also got one of the best chins in the UFC (I think Henderson as the slight edge).

If you want to see how a lot of standup fighters with no ground game would fair in MMA, go watch the first 3 UFC with Royce Gracie. In fact watch the first 12, loads of strikers getting pounded and submitted. It's brutal stuff though, before weight classes and any particular rules. Or go watch some Pride.

The fairest thing in Mixed Martial Arts to prevent injury compared to Boxing (of which I'm also a fan, it's just pretty uninspiring at the moment) is the moment someone is knocked out, the match is over. In boxing people carry on after a knockdown (if they can stand after the count) which is really bad for your brain.

I don't see how people can call themselves fight fans and not give MMA a look while only concentrating on boxing. Even Tyson said he'd never fight in the cage but is a huge fan.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 31, 2012)

In the interests of 'true' realism, how about this new rule for MMA?

When MMA fights go to the ground, for each 10 seconds they stay that way, a random audience volunteer wearing Docs is allowed into the ring to start kicking fuck out of whichever fighter they feel like kicking.

Seriously though, I think you'd get a more interesting game if you had some sort of workable penalty for staying on the ground. Not ruling it out completely, but giving fighters a reason to get back up as quickly as feasible, as they would in the street.

It'd be in the interests of both realism and spectacle. MMA as it stands only simulates the rather rare reality of a minimal rules 'match' fight where nobody's mates join in and the resultant excessive grappling does seem to be a turn-off for a lot of people.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 31, 2012)

They are trying to instigate a 15 second standup rule without actually making a rule (they want the refs to do it but don't want to make part of the unification rules).


----------



## Structaural (Jul 31, 2012)

Here's Lee Murray vs Anderson Silva 8 years ago at the UK Cage Rage 8:
Interesting to see how Anderson was fighting then - much more takedown attempts...
These are probably the worst commentators ever too...'good lucky duck by Silva'


----------



## tendril (Jul 31, 2012)

Structaural said:


> They are trying to instigate a 15 second standup rule without actually making a rule (they want the refs to do it but don't want to make part of the unification rules).


I think they should leave that alone. The ground game is as exciting as the standup. Introducing that type of rule is pandering to the audience. Imho like.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 31, 2012)

I agree. 
If position is being advanced or punches are being thrown and subs are being tried. Otherwise stand them up. The refs know what they're doing more than that twat Dana. They don't work for him.

Still, been a couple of fights or so with terrible reffing lately.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 31, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Here's Lee Murray vs Anderson Silva 8 years ago at the UK Cage Rage 8:


 
Silva's next fight didn't go so well:


----------



## Deareg (Aug 2, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> You're entitled to your view. I think people used to boxing always have trouble watching MMA due to the differences in stance that result from the much wider range of techniques available.
> 
> Those two weren't amazingly skilled, but they both looked like decent pros, although Nelson's beer-gut was a rather disturbing thing to see on a professional athlete (rather than say a professional darts player)


I have seen plenty of such fat bastards in the boxing heavyweight division over the years, far more than in the UFC.


----------



## Deareg (Aug 2, 2012)

I think the match-ups in boxing are far more gruesome than in MMA, in boxing so many fights are matched so that one fighter is going to win, usually by knock out, so as to pave his way to the big money, whereas in MMA fighters are matched to be good evenly matched bouts.


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> In the interests of 'true' realism, how about this new rule for MMA?


The whole 'MMA represents more realism' stance is a non-starter IMO, and will be until they legalise poking your opponent in the eye and kicking them in the nadgers.

I think it's a more cerebral, tactical fighting form though, despite often looking more brutal. Picking the right techniques against the right opponent can mean the difference between a quick loss by KO and an easy win - more so than in boxing. And someone on here described the grappling aspect as "playing high speed chess whilst being repeatedly punched in the face" which I think sums it up quite well.


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

Deareg said:


> I think the match-ups in boxing are far more gruesome than in MMA, in boxing so many fights are matched so that one fighter is going to win, usually by knock out, so as to pave his way to the big money, whereas in MMA fighters are matched to be good evenly matched bouts.


The judging is also often a total farce in the top level of boxing.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 2, 2012)

Corax said:


> The whole 'MMA represents more realism' stance is a non-starter IMO, and will be until they legalise poking your opponent in the eye and kicking them in the nadgers.
> 
> I think it's a more cerebral, tactical fighting form though, despite often looking more brutal. Picking the right techniques against the right opponent can mean the difference between a quick loss by KO and an easy win - more so than in boxing. And someone on here described the grappling aspect as "playing high speed chess whilst being repeatedly punched in the face" which I think sums it up quite well.


 
Didn't eyepoking and nadger-kicking used to be legal in early NHB competitions? To be honest I don't think the lack of them has the same degree of influence on the nature of MMA as ground-fighting. The reason being, eye-pokes and nadger-kicks use the same mechanics and tactics (pretty much) as hand strikes and kicks in general, whereas allowing ground-fighting free play changes the conditions fundamentally.

I was sort of satirising the "MMA represents more realism" stance though, at least in my own mind, because while I feel strongly that groundwork is an essential backup to stand-up fighting from a self defence point of view, from my point of view (which is explicitly rather self-defence oriented) MMA and modern Judo may tend to overemphasise it a bit. It's interesting though, that at least in terms of groundwork, that position aligns with the "looks too much like two drunks fighting outside a chippy, boxing is much better" crowd.

What you'd end up with if you had a "no groundwork" rule is more like Thai boxing, except probably with a wider range of throws allowed from the clinch and maybe a few standing submission techniques. Which might be fun, but probably not enough different to say K1.

Very early Judo rules though, probably back when it was called Kano-Ryu Ju-Jitsu, in at least one version I've seen, had an interesting approach to limiting groundwork (at that stage of the art's development, very likely driven by realism) that might be workable for an MMA variant.

Along with exhorting people not to snap neck or limbs, gouge eyes or kick nuts if "the bout is friendly" they had something like "Get a KO or submission within <some very short period like 10s> or the fight reverts to stand-up" which I think might produce something quite interesting, both in terms of slightly enhanced realism and not boring the average punter with all that BJJ stuff the wife once vividly described (in the context of the first Fedor vs Nog fight) as looking like "incredibly violent gay sex" ....


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> What you'd end up with if you had a "no groundwork" rule


I'm 100% against any changes to the rules/interpretation on groundwork.

When I first started watching MMA, it looked like two big blokes rolling around on the floor.
Now I've watched more (and particularly through watching TUF) I understand far better what's going on, and can see the techniques and counter-techniques that are being played out.

So IMO the answer isn't to restrict the groundwork, it's to educate the audience.

To borrow a media buzz-phrase, it would be 'dumbing down' the sport.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 3, 2012)

Well, I think to some degree MMA rules already do that.

For example, why aren't the competitors wearing jackets? Why are they wearing any sort of mitts? Why are they on a sprung floor?


----------



## junglevip (Aug 3, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> In the interests of 'true' realism, how about this new rule for MMA?
> 
> When MMA fights go to the ground, for each 10 seconds they stay that way, a random audience volunteer wearing Docs is allowed into the ring to start kicking fuck out of whichever fighter they feel like kicking.


 
That would make it very realistic esp. If you give them a knife as well.  Its not something I would like to see though


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 3, 2012)

junglevip said:


> That would make it very realistic esp. If you give them a knife as well. Its not something I would like to see though


 
Heh, well I'm sort of ambivalent about the "MMA is the most realistic" martial art/sport claim.

I mean in some ways it probably is, but in others, well, let's just say I think the claim is open to a bit of satire.

Hence the proposal of the 'audience member wearing Docs' rule.


----------



## Corax (Aug 3, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Well, I think to some degree MMA rules already do that.
> 
> For example, why aren't the competitors wearing jackets? Why are they wearing any sort of mitts? Why are they on a sprung floor?


I think you're misinterpreting my point. I'm not talking about making it more realistic. I think that idea's just daft tbh, for reasons like the ones you've pointed out.  I don't want to see a 'real' fight, I want to see a combat sport.

I object to the proposed change to the rules/interpretation not because of anything to do with realism, but because it ignores/penalises a very technical skill, in favour of a more 'obvious' spectacle. That's what I mean by 'dumbing down'.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 3, 2012)

I didn't think you were, but you'll agree I hope that some people do talk about realism quite a bit, for example the people who started MMA in the first place?


----------



## Corax (Aug 3, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I didn't think you were, but you'll agree I hope that some people do talk about realism quite a bit, for example the people who started MMA in the first place?


On here I've seen it - and agree that it's daft.  Don't know who you mean though when you say the people that started MMA.  My knowledge isn't that good tbh, I've only become interested in the last couple of years.  The impression I had gained was that MMA had evolved out of several different places though, rather than being 'started' all of a sudden?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 3, 2012)

Yep, it did start in different places, but the 'realism' motif was present in most of them. For over a century there were one-off challenge bouts to see "whose martial art was best" under different and often improvised rule-sets. There were also a very few places like Brazil where 'no-holds barred' aka Vale Tudo contests were popular.

The Brazilian JJ style was created based on stuff that had been taught to Brazilians by a seriously skilled traditional Judo guy called Maeda, who had been taught by one of the first generation of 19thC Judo champions (from back when Judo was still doing very violent challenge bouts with traditional Ju-Jitsu) and who spent pretty much the first half of the 20thC touring the world taking on all-comers in order to promote Judo before settling down in Brazil. There were plenty of other surviving JJ and similar styles around the world of course, but not many that actually tested their style in public competition under 'no-holds barred' rules, which is the key distinction.

Particularly from the 70's onward, various attempts were made to organise different events and groups with the idea of 'finding out which art is best in a real fight', I guess to some degree driven by the first martial arts boom unleashed by Bruce Lee.

It seemed to be something in the air. I was trying out various strike-based martial arts in the late 70's and early 80's (after doing traditional Judo pretty seriously from when I was a little kid until going to Uni) and it was quite a common thing for people to get together unofficially, often with people training in other systems to 'try it out for real.' It was also quite common (at least on Merseyside at that time) for the senior dan grades to work as nightclub doormen in order to have a chance to use their art 'for real.'

Some just wanted to see what happened when people actually _hit_ each other in Karate (a lot of karate styles trained to miss back then). This is a key concern if you're doing it with the idea of using it for self-defence. In those days there was still loads of "this nine pressure point shaking fa-jing dragon palm of death technique is too powerful to be used unless you are justified in killing your opponent, only teach it in secret to worthy disciples grasshopper and never, ever, under any circumstances, try it out under realistic conditions to see if it actually works." ( ... 'works' as opposed to, say, leaving you standing there waving your arms about like a dick, while some teenage thug nuts you or jams a broken beer-glass into your neck.)

Other people were simply interested in promoting their style as 'best' via challenge.

So you get a bunch of different things all happening around the same time.

In the US you got "full-contact" karate between different styles who wanted to find out what happened when you actually hit each other in earnest. People like Chuck Norris and Benny Urquides became famous in this context. Bruce Lee was developing Jeet Kune Do on the fringes of this overall movement too, and definitely talking both cross-training and realism in a big way. He had a very strong influence on a lot of those guys, arguably more so than his movies in pushing 'try everything and see what works on the street'. Then the Brazilian Gracie brothers showed up in the US to challenge all-comers under a rule-set invented by Rorion Gracie, i.e. the first UFC events, which naturally the Gracies dominated because the 'full-contact' guys knew fuck all about throws and groundwork. The first UFC final was between Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock, a US professional wrestler who had spent a few years fighting under Japanese Pancrase rules. Shamrock later complained that the UFC rules were designed to favour BJJ.

In Japan, you get what looks to me like two streams, but cross-fertilising. On the one hand, you get grapplers from all kinds of arts ending up in professional wrestling leading to the formation of stuff like Pancrase and Shooto. A key figure there was Inoki who fought a challenge match with Muhammed Ali (Ali very sensibly declined to join Inoki on the floor and Inoki very sensibly declined to leave his guard position and stand up where Ali could punch his head off, so it was a bit of a let down.) On the other hand you have challenge matches between Kyokushinkai karate (where they really did whack each other) and Muay Thai (who frequently kicked the Kyokushin guy's arses) spawning various sorts of mostly standup fighting (see next post) that eventually led to K1 rules. Then the two of those sort of cross fertilised and eventually produced Pride.

All the time this was going on, what people kept saying they were doing was 'finding out whose martial art works best' and generally interpreting that to mean 'under the most permissive rule-set we think we can get away with legally' (or the one that will most favour the style used by the promoter's several dozen brothers, sons and nephews, depending on how you want to look at it.)


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 3, 2012)

Here's some interesting footage of one of the Japanese MMA pre-cursors I mentioned above.



Daido Juku aka Kudo seems to be basically a cross between Kyokushinkai Karate, Muay Thai and Judo. Here's their rule-set. A bit like what I was advocating a few posts back it in terms of allowing groundwork but not letting it predominate.

Strictly regulated to be amateur-only because the founder doesn't like what professional competition has done to other MMA styles, although there are apparently some splinter organisations that have produced good pro fighters.



> Victory or defeat is decided by any direct attack using "
> 
> · Punch
> 
> ...


 
http://www.kudouk.com/kudo-rules.html

Here's another Kudo clip, this time showing some technical mechanics that I think are rather interesting for a variety of reasons (some nostalgic admittedly).


----------



## Corax (Aug 3, 2012)

I'm gonna come back and read that properly when it's not close to midnight on a Friday.  Nice one.


----------



## Bakunin (Aug 4, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Didn't eyepoking and nadger-kicking used to be legal in early NHB competitions?


 
Nadger kicking has also been known to appear in ordinary martial arts demonstrations.

Taste the delightful pain...


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 4, 2012)




----------



## al (Aug 5, 2012)

UFC on Fox 4 was an absolute stormer - look it up...


----------



## junglevip (Aug 6, 2012)

Corax said:


> The judging is also often a total farce in the top level of boxing.


 
True


----------



## Structaural (Aug 8, 2012)

al said:


> UFC on Fox 4 was an absolute stormer - look it up...


 
That was immense, finally caught up yesterday. Demonoid got fucked over and PirateBay is blocked it Holland. Took me a while to find. Giganews has removed every UFC file they've got.



Spoiler: spoiler



Joe Lauzon was superb, there's a great Gracie breakdown of his fight, I'll try and find it. Man every fight was wicked. Lyoto up for Jones/Henderson title. Lyoto has never fought Henderson though...Rua can't have many fights left in him, he takes too much punishment. Can't believe he's only 30


----------



## Structaural (Aug 8, 2012)

Spoiler: Gracie Breakdown




[spoiler/]


----------



## ice-is-forming (Aug 8, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> please, Please take a second to vote for Greg Atzori.
> http://apps.facebook.com/offerpop/C...93&p=160710350628946&v=Entry&id=439175&rest=1


 

just wanted  to say that Greg came third in this comp so won an 8 day training camp in thailand with brian ebersole and last week he won fight world cups MMA light weight belt! going well for a guy that trains in his garage him and my son went down to brisbane for a training session and my son spun kerry dunn a story that they just train in a garage and copy youtube videos


----------



## al (Aug 9, 2012)

Structaural said:


> That was immense, finally caught up yesterday. Demonoid got fucked over and PirateBay is blocked it Holland. Took me a while to find. Giganews has removed every UFC file they've got.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
kat.ph normally has the fights pretty quick, also mma-core.com is good for streaming....


----------



## tendril (Aug 30, 2012)

Dana White is one pissed off dude

[151 cancellation conference call]


----------



## Corax (Sep 5, 2012)

Quick technical question - is stamping on the other guy's foot permitted?


----------



## The Boy (Sep 5, 2012)

Pretty sure it is.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 5, 2012)

Corax said:


> Quick technical question - is stamping on the other guy's foot permitted?


Yes.


----------



## Corax (Sep 5, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Pretty sure it is.





Deareg said:


> Yes.


Hmm.  Wondering why they don't do it more in the clinch in that case. A hard heel to the top of the other guy's foot could take the bite out of their kicks for the rest of the bout at least.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 5, 2012)

Corax said:


> Hmm. Wondering why they don't do it more in the clinch in that case. A hard heel to the top of the other guy's foot could take the bite out of their kicks for the rest of the bout at least.


It is used quite a lot, maybe it is not used all the time because a fighter would be leaving himself vulnerable to some sort of counter if he became to predictable.


----------



## Corax (Sep 5, 2012)

Deareg said:


> *It is used quite a lot*, maybe it is not used all the time because a fighter would be leaving himself vulnerable to some sort of counter if he became to predictable.


Really? 

I wasn't an early adopter of MMA, and have only watched about 5 cards of UFC, plus TUF and a few fights from Pride etc - but I've not noticed any of it at all. Maybe I'm just not watching properly!


----------



## Deareg (Sep 5, 2012)

Corax said:


> Really?
> 
> I wasn't an early adopter of MMA, and have only watched about 5 cards of UFC, plus TUF and a few fights from Pride etc - but I've not noticed any of it at all. Maybe I'm just not watching properly!


Pay attention that man!


----------



## Structaural (Sep 6, 2012)

As Tyson once said 'I could never do MMA, they thtampt on your feet!'


----------



## Corax (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm slowly working through some old UFCs, from before I got into it.

Finished 117, and could not believe the end of Silva vs Sonnen. He'd been completely destroyed! What a turnaround.

And now watching 118. Have to admit that the first fight, Davis vs Diaz, is the side of MMA that I don't like. With a cut that bad around the eye, it was just painful to see the fight carry on. I'm sure one section of the crowd love it, the ones baying for blood, and I know that a fighter can still win it even with an injury like that - but I was relieved when that fight finished without his eyeball falling out and rolling around the octagon.


----------



## Corax (Sep 9, 2012)

Aaaaand just seen Paul Daley's post-fight hook at UFC 113.  Way to represent the UK in MMA.  What a dick.

I know this is old news, but I'm catching up!


----------



## The Boy (Sep 9, 2012)

The worst thing about the Daley incident was that that was about the only shot he landed.


----------



## Corax (Sep 9, 2012)

The Boy said:


> The worst thing about the Daley incident was that that was about the only shot he landed.


That one shot was better than the entire Doerksen Lawlor fight though. That was a poor quality pub brawl.

Wasn't hugely taken with much of that night tbh, until the championship bout. Shogun made up for it though. Came as unexpected to me as well. I know Machida is top billing now, so kinda expected that 113 was just part of his march to the top. Nice surprise - I like Rua's style.

The main reason I don't look at this thread much is that I'm working through the back-catalogue, and I don't want spoilers.


----------



## The Boy (Sep 9, 2012)

Corax said:


> The main reason I don't look at this thread much is that I'm working through the back-catalogue, and I don't want spoilers.


 
I've often thought of doing the same, especially since I don't have a tv package so can't watch them live.  Plus I haven't actually watched any fights for ages.


----------



## Corax (Sep 9, 2012)

The Boy said:


> I've often thought of doing the same, especially since I don't have a tv package so can't watch them live.


KAT is your friend.


----------



## Corax (Sep 9, 2012)

Corax said:


> And now watching 118. Have to admit that the first fight, Davis vs Diaz, is the side of MMA that I don't like. With a cut that bad around the eye, it was just painful to see the fight carry on.


Aaaargh.  Dunham vs Sherk in 119 - cut's even _worse_.  

What exactly does it take for them to stop the fight due to a cut?  Does their brain need to start falling out of it or something?


----------



## Structaural (Sep 12, 2012)

Corax said:


> I'm slowly working through some old UFCs, from before I got into it.
> 
> Finished 117, and could not believe the end of Silva vs Sonnen. He'd been completely destroyed! What a turnaround.
> 
> And now watching 118. Have to admit that the first fight, Davis vs Diaz, is the side of MMA that I don't like. With a cut that bad around the eye, it was just painful to see the fight carry on. I'm sure one section of the crowd love it, the ones baying for blood, and I know that a fighter can still win it even with an injury like that - but I was relieved when that fight finished without his eyeball falling out and rolling around the octagon.


 
Watch out for Struve - he's a bleeder..
I've been working my way through UFC 1-80 (on about 28), I'd seen 1-7 before.
Really interesting seeing now retired fighters just starting out. Now I see what the fuss about Colture was all about, he was a takedown king.

Here's an amusing fight, Fedor's brother against a rather angry individual (are those Russian mafia stars on his torso?):


----------



## Structaural (Sep 12, 2012)

even quicker


----------



## tendril (Sep 13, 2012)

Corax said:


> Aaaargh. Dunham vs Sherk in 119 - cut's even _worse_.
> 
> What exactly does it take for them to stop the fight due to a cut? Does their brain need to start falling out of it or something?


A fight will be stopped due to a cut if the bleeding is interfeering with the fighter's vision. Cuts are only skin deep. The damage that a boxer can do with bigger gloves and repeated knockdowns is far far worse.


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2012)

I think its finally been announced that UK viewers will actually be able to watch the UK vs Australia season of Ultimate Fighter, rather unsurprisingly on ESPN, starting next week I think.


----------



## tendril (Sep 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> I think its finally been announced that UK viewers will actually be able to watch the UK vs Australia season of Ultimate Fighter, rather unsurprisingly on ESPN, starting next week I think.


pon da sky+ record


----------



## Corax (Sep 14, 2012)

I'd like to watch some of JBJ's previous fights. Problem is, I don't want to google which UFCs they were in because then I'll inadvertently see the results (more of other fights - I'm guessing Jones hasn't had his arse whooped much).

Any kind hearted soul good enough to tell me the numbers?



ETA: Alternatively, if anyone knows of a site that lists cards without their results, that'd be perfect.


----------



## tendril (Sep 15, 2012)

They have individual pages for each fighter on the UFC site if that's any help:

http://uk.ufc.com/fighter/Jon-Jones


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 15, 2012)

elbows said:


> I think its finally been announced that UK viewers will actually be able to watch the UK vs Australia season of Ultimate Fighter, rather unsurprisingly on ESPN, starting next week I think.


 
i got some mates in that and some more that auditioned but didn't make it. i was told that it was more about personality than fighting ability. the only fight ability they got to show was with 5 minutes notice for a 5 minute roll. the rest of the time was spent on seeing how people came across on camera and in interviews etc... still it'll be worth watching.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 17, 2012)

Corax said:


> I'd like to watch some of JBJ's previous fights. Problem is, I don't want to google which UFCs they were in because then I'll inadvertently see the results (more of other fights - I'm guessing Jones hasn't had his arse whooped much).
> 
> Any kind hearted soul good enough to tell me the numbers?
> 
> ...


 

Here you go:


----------



## Corax (Sep 17, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Here you go:


You're a star!  Thanks.


----------



## tendril (Sep 19, 2012)

So who's watchin TUF this season? Opening show was interesting. One really disrespectful s.o.b. in the prelim fights. I'll not name names so as not to spoil it, and some disrespect shown by one of the picked competitors towards Nelson. I mean, both Nelson and Carwin went the distance with Dos Santos, and these fighters are here to be trained by the best with the prospect of a six figure contract at the end. You'd think they's have a bit of humility. Anyway, as they say...... "Bring it on!"


----------



## Structaural (Sep 20, 2012)

I'll be watching. Who are the coaches (I know Big Country is one)?


----------



## Deareg (Sep 20, 2012)

tendril said:


> So who's watchin TUF this season? Opening show was interesting. One really disrespectful s.o.b. in the prelim fights. I'll not name names so as not to spoil it, and some disrespect shown by one of the picked competitors towards Nelson. I mean, both Nelson and Carwin went the distance with Dos Santos, and these fighters are here to be trained by the best with the prospect of a six figure contract at the end. You'd think they's have a bit of humility. Anyway, as they say...... "Bring it on!"


What channel is it on?


----------



## tendril (Sep 20, 2012)

Deareg said:


> What channel is it on?


ESPN


----------



## tendril (Sep 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I'll be watching. Who are the coaches (I know Big Country is one)?


and Carwin.

Now that's a coaches' fight I wanna see. Booooooooooooom!!!


----------



## Deareg (Sep 22, 2012)

I found the first episode of the Carwin/Nelson series a bit long and boring though if the trailer at the end is anywhere near accurate it looks like it could be a really entertaining series, good fights or no.


----------



## tendril (Sep 22, 2012)

Watched the UK v OZ 'The Smashes' yesterday. Can't wait for the knob with the silly hat to get his arse kicked.


----------



## tendril (Sep 22, 2012)

Anyone stayin up to see Bones v Belfort tonight? I've got it pon da record in case I fall asleep (hard day gardening today and pretty knackered)


----------



## tendril (Sep 23, 2012)

Well that was quite good.....



Spoiler



Jones had an early scare from Belfort's Armbar attempt.


----------



## Corax (Sep 25, 2012)

tendril said:


> So who's watchin TUF this season? Opening show was interesting. One really disrespectful s.o.b. in the prelim fights. I'll not name names so as not to spoil it, and some disrespect shown by one of the picked competitors towards Nelson. I mean, both Nelson and Carwin went the distance with Dos Santos, and these fighters are here to be trained by the best with the prospect of a six figure contract at the end. You'd think they's have a bit of humility. Anyway, as they say...... "Bring it on!"


Yep, I'm watching s16 and 'The Smashes'.  Not very taken with any of the contenders in s16 yet - although Nelson's version of 'coaching' looks like it'll provide plenty of lulz....


----------



## Corax (Sep 25, 2012)

tendril said:


> Well that was quite good.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Bones has just taught me what a Kimura is 

Edit: Apparently I misheard the commentator and he actually said 'americana'.  Doh.  I'm off to google what a Kimura looks like.


----------



## tendril (Sep 25, 2012)

Corax said:


> Yep, I'm watching s16 and 'The Smashes'. Not very taken with any of the contenders in s16 yet - although Nelson's version of 'coaching' looks like it'll provide plenty of lulz....


I've got a lot of time for big Roy and his belly. Dana says he's a pain in the arse though so we'll see.


----------



## Corax (Sep 25, 2012)

tendril said:


> I've got a lot of time for big Roy and his belly. Dana says he's a pain in the arse though so we'll see.


The fighters certainly seemed somewhat surprised at how demanding his schedule is(n't)...


----------



## tendril (Sep 25, 2012)

Corax said:


> The fighters certainly seemed somewhat surprised at how demanding his schedule is(n't)...


His success must must be down to all that secret ninja training  he does on a Saturday


----------



## Corax (Sep 25, 2012)

tendril said:


> His success must must be down to all that secret ninja training he does on a Saturday


Not denying that the guy has earned his rights in the UFC.  Just not sure that his coaching is quite what an ambitious young fighter needs.  Some seemed quite shocked at his training plan, saying that they usually trained twice or three times a day, whereas now it's only once.

I've never quite worked Nelson out tbh (although admittedly I think I've only seen 4 fights of his).  Is he supremely talented, and could have been a true great if he'd got himself in shape?  Or has he just got a great chin?  Or something else?  I genuinely don't know.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 26, 2012)

tendril said:


> I've got a lot of time for big Roy and his belly. Dana says he's a pain in the arse though so we'll see.


 
Dana's a dick though, who cares what he thinks.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2012)

tendril said:


> Watched the UK v OZ 'The Smashes' yesterday. Can't wait for the knob with the silly hat to get his arse kicked.


 
don't know how to do spoilers , sorry.

you'll be waiting a bit then


----------



## tendril (Sep 26, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> don't know how to do spoilers , sorry.
> 
> you'll be waiting a bit then


that's hardly a spoiler icey


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2012)

lol sorry 


my friend spent 3 days auditioning for that show, before he went he said he doubted he'd get in because they would be looking for people with 'personality' for tv. he made it to the 3rd day and missed out by one place. his experience confirmed that they were more keen on creating tv than fighting skills. however i haven't seen any personality from the aussi team yet and am truly sad if that's the best the producers saw i like the freakshow!


----------



## tendril (Sep 27, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> lol sorry
> 
> 
> my friend spent 3 days auditioning for that show, before he went he said he doubted he'd get in because they would be looking for people with 'personality' for tv. he made it to the 3rd day and missed out by one place. his experience confirmed that they were more keen on creating tv than fighting skills. however i haven't seen any personality from the aussi team yet and am truly sad if that's the best the producers saw i like the freakshow!


I think the freakshow is a bit out of place. It's supposed to be the ultimate fighter not the ultimate circus performer


----------



## tendril (Sep 30, 2012)

Good show in Nottingham last night



Spoiler


----------



## Structaural (Oct 2, 2012)

Watched it last night, was a good night of fights.



Spoiler: spoiler



Jimi Manuwa's debut was nasty and Ogle got robbed. Great fight with Struve, thought he was going to get knocked out for a second there. Great BJJ fight with Sass. Hathaway did well, thought John Mcquire didn't look his usual self, thought he was going to get a sub there. Needs to work on his standup. I thought Hardy looked much improved, especially his wrestling.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 3, 2012)

Pretty stacked card for once, I predict 4 injuries before fight night. Free card too (not sure how that works for UK and Europe).


----------



## tendril (Oct 3, 2012)

So how long will Bonner last against Silva on the 13th? I hope he gets past the first round. He likes to take a pounding so it could be a good fight and go the distance but I can't see him beating Silva and definitely not stopping him.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 4, 2012)

10 secs into the 2nd round  (I don't think Silva likes to do much in the first - that's usually his feeling out round). He's as slow as Forrest and look what Silva did to him.
Mind you interestingly, at the time he fought Bonner, Bones said that Bonner was his hardest fight, he didn't have much standup  back then though.


----------



## Corax (Oct 4, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Watched it last night, was a good night of fights.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: spoiler



Yep. I thought the headline fight and the Hathaway vs Maguire one were the highlights.  Dana came out and said that all the fights were great apart from Hathaway vs Maguire though... described it as 'horrible' or something.


Loved Brad Pickett's attitude. Googled him after as well, and found that he's my new favourite celebrity Spurs fan.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 5, 2012)

Top lad 

Pretty amusing interview here with Forrest and Bonner.


----------



## Corax (Oct 8, 2012)

I started a new Twitter account to use to follow & respond to MMA use.  The name I've used is basically 'Corax'MMA, to distinguish it from my football one 'Corax'Spurs or my general/politics one 'Corax'.

I've not got many followers on my other accounts, as I don't really tweet much - just use them for reading others'.  But the one with MMA in the title has unaccountably started picking up a lot of female followers.  Fuckin lol.

Only thing I can't figure out is if it's spam/phishing etc accounts targeting what they expect to be a young hormonal bonehead, or predatory young women looking for someone 'buff'.  Either way, I suspect they're going to be a little disappointed.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 17, 2012)

The UFC is losing the plot, moving closer to WWE. New series of TUF will feature LHW Champ Jon DUI Jones vs two time loser and MW Chael right-wing bigot Sonnen. What a joke. I don't think I can take 6 months of Chael's 'wit' so I probably won't be watching. All this talk of superfights and this crap, Zuffa just care about the dollars now.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 17, 2012)

UFC 153 was epic btw (except for the reffing)


----------



## Corax (Oct 17, 2012)

Structaural said:


> The UFC is losing the plot, moving closer to WWE. New series of TUF will feature LHW Champ Jon DUI Jones vs two time loser and MW Chael right-wing bigot Sonnen. What a joke. I don't think I can take 6 months of Chael's 'wit' so I probably won't be watching. All this talk of superfights and this crap, Zuffa just care about the dollars now.


Sonnen may be a dick, but he's turned in some entertaining fights.  And I'll happily tune in to see him get schooled by Jones.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 18, 2012)

Yeah, I'll watch that, but not the show (unless I hear stories of some great fighters on there, TUF Brazil was outstanding). I think he's quite a boring lay 'n' pray guy who hardly ever finishes or risks submissions (17 decision wins). His best thing is a mean south paw double leg which I can't see working on Jones (100% TDD so far). His melon is gonna get twisted.

It just goes to show, trash talk will get you further than talent. Jones should be fighting Dan Henderson or two other guys, not a guy who lost twice to Silva, barely beat Bisping and competes in a different weight class.
If the UFC aren't going to put the best fighters with the best fighters and are only putting on the biggest draws with each other then it's shit MMA.

I look forward to Chael vs Lesnar in the new year.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 18, 2012)

Quite a good article about it.


----------



## Corax (Oct 19, 2012)

TUF Smashes:

I really _really _want to see someone punch this guy in the head a lot.







I thought "Freakshow" was the height of annoying arseholes, but Whittaker's humourless sense of twattish superiority really blows my gaskets. He's like the kid at school who would sneer at others for being 'immature', suddenly waking up 15 years later and still running the same schtick.

Can't wait for someone to dislocate his sphincter.


----------



## tendril (Oct 20, 2012)

Is it just me or are the smashes fights more entertaining than the US TUF fights? It's as though the yanks have cotton wool in their ears when they fight, especially Nelson's picks. They just don't seem to listen to their corners and are cautious as hell. Not one of them has shined and looked remotely like being an ultimate fighter. At least the smashes have had a couple of decent scraps.


----------



## Corax (Oct 20, 2012)

tendril said:


> Is it just me or are the smashes fights more entertaining than the US TUF fights? It's as though the yanks have cotton wool in their ears when they fight, especially Nelson's picks. They just don't seem to listen to their corners and are cautious as hell. Not one of them has shined and looked remotely like being an ultimate fighter. At least the smashes have had a couple of decent scraps.


Agreed.  I'm pegging Richie for the win though.  Reckon that kid has something simmering underneath.


----------



## Corax (Oct 20, 2012)

I know of two people from Alaska. Sarah Palin, and Herron-Webb






I have to admit that on that very limited evidence, I'm starting to form an impression of the state as being populated by backward, inbred, fuckwits.


----------



## tendril (Oct 20, 2012)

Corax said:


> I know of two people from Alaska. Sarah Palin, and Herron-Webb
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I met an Alaskan when I was in Cambodia. He's made some money doing the crab fishing thing. Cool as fuck guy, so they're not all uu-huuh yokels


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> It just goes to show, trash talk will get you further than talent. Jones should be fighting Dan Henderson or two other guys, not a guy who lost twice to Silva, barely beat Bisping and competes in a different weight class.
> If the UFC aren't going to put the best fighters with the best fighters and are only putting on the biggest draws with each other then it's shit MMA.


 
Being able to draw has always been an important part of pro fighting and its no different with MMA. If the sort of thing you are complaining about is done too often then its a bad thing, but done occasionally its a good thing for the sport because its not really good for anybody involved if the audience for the sport declines.

Now I would agree that they have done it too much recently, but I can understand why. A generation of stars have retired or gone well past their peak, they've been running too many shows and there have been too many pre-fight injuries, and TUF is suffering from ratings death in the USA. Sonnen got the fight because they are moving the show to a different night and they really dont want it to fail. Idealy these 'special attraction' fights would not mess up the title picture, and you are quite right to be annoyed about that stuff, but hopefully this is a blip due to a long run of bad luck and an underwhelming move to Fox, not a template for the future.


----------



## Bakunin (Oct 29, 2012)

More into this type of stuff than MMA these days. This 'Bama Lhetway' (Burmese Boxing). Similar to modern Muay Thai in many ways but without the gloves:


----------



## Structaural (Oct 29, 2012)

Corax said:


> TUF Smashes:
> 
> I really _really _want to see someone punch this guy in the head a lot.
> 
> ...


 
Finally I know what your talking about.  Man he got a good knockout there though... 
Really enjoying the UK-AUS TUF, much better quality coaching, fighters and humour compared to the American version.

Roy Nelson is bloody terrible on the US TUF, I'm only up to the 4th episode but wtf? I know his wife is pregnant but, man. Never there for training, no backup trainers - Carwin has Pat Barry. His in-cage coaching is awful, just saying the dude's name over and over. I thought he'd be better....

I must admit I do a ton of fast forwarding of these shows so I'm not always up on who's the biggest dickhead.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 29, 2012)

Bakunin said:


> More into this type of stuff than MMA these days. This 'Bama Lhetway' (Burmese Boxing). Similar to modern Muay Thai in many ways but without the gloves:




That big guy took some shots! Impressive, they have some serious conditioning and they have to live in Burma.


----------



## Corax (Oct 29, 2012)

TUF spoiler


Spoiler



Latest episode of the US TUF was a joke. I wanted Hill to win tbh. But he didn't. He knew it, Dana knew it, and everyone except the judges knew it.


----------



## Bakunin (Oct 29, 2012)

Structaural said:


> That big guy took some shots! Impressive, they have some serious conditioning and they have to live in Burma.


 
He took those shots better than this unfortunate chap took only one:



Dinner is served...


----------



## Structaural (Oct 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> spoiler.


 
Thanks, I'll look forward to watching it. Or not.


----------



## Corax (Oct 30, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Thanks, I'll look forward to watching it. Or not.


Ooops. Sorry. I'll go spoiler it. 

I always avoid this thread until I've caught up, so I guess I assumed that others did too.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 30, 2012)

Nah, you're alright, I have no investment in these people.


----------



## Corax (Oct 30, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Nah, you're alright, I have no investment in these people.


Lol.  Be good to edit where you quoted me though, in case it ruins it for anyone else.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 2, 2012)

Live MMA on this stream from India.

http://www.mmaopinion.co.uk/live-2/


----------



## Structaural (Nov 2, 2012)

Bakunin said:


> He took those shots better than this unfortunate chap took only one:
> 
> 
> 
> Dinner is served...




Kimbo Slice - he's awesome when there's no chance of a takedown.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 3, 2012)

Live now, World Series of Fighting.

https://www.facebook.com/MmaWorldSeries/app_295822540523217


----------



## Corax (Nov 7, 2012)

Just watching S16E08.  Things I've learned so far:

We're now televising something that's essentially a psychotic episode for entertainment.
Matt Secor is one of the biggest cunts I've ever seen on TV, and I hope that karma fucks him in the eye with a rusty phallus.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 7, 2012)

Corax said:


> Just watching S16E08. Things I've learned so far:
> 
> We're now televising something that's essentially a psychotic episode for entertainment.
> Matt Secor is one of the biggest cunts I've ever seen on TV, and I hope that karma fucks him in the eye with a rusty phallus.


 
Did you miss Junie Browning in one of the earlier series then?


----------



## Corax (Nov 7, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Did you miss Junie Browning in one of the earlier series then?


Doesn't ring any bells.  Only watched relatively recent series of TUF.


----------



## tendril (Nov 7, 2012)

Corax said:


> Just watching S16E08. Things I've learned so far:
> 
> Matt Secor is one of the biggest cunts I've ever seen on TV, and I hope that karma fucks him in the eye with a rusty phallus.


 
Why?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 7, 2012)

Corax said:


> Doesn't ring any bells. Only watched relatively recent series of TUF.


Google the horrible bastard, he is still making headlines.


----------



## Corax (Nov 7, 2012)

tendril said:


> Why?


Smirking himself silly and saying how funny it was to see someone basically having a breakdown.  Total absence of empathy.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 7, 2012)

Corax said:


> Smirking himself silly and saying how funny it was to see someone basically having a breakdown. Total absence of empathy.


Josh Koshcheck was far worse in series 1 as well.


----------



## Corax (Nov 7, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Josh Koshcheck was far worse in series 1 as well.


Also a cunt.


----------



## tendril (Nov 8, 2012)

Corax said:


> Smirking himself silly and saying how funny it was to see someone basically having a breakdown. Total absence of empathy.


ffs, that guy (Julian) was a dick and I would have laughed, though tbf he was so mentally unstable he probably shouldn't have been there in the first place. They're supposed to be professional fighters and that behaviour was like a spoilt child.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 8, 2012)

I've not yet caught up, but I did see him throw a toenail at the pink haired punk which made him kick-off (mind you he is pretty unstable, just let him BANG!).
Major wind-up merchant - also called the pink haired guy a 'faggot' for said pink hair. Nice.
Enjoying the UK-AUS one much more.


----------



## Corax (Nov 8, 2012)

tendril said:


> ffs, that guy (Julian) was a dick and I would have laughed, though tbf he was so mentally unstable he probably shouldn't have been there in the first place. They're supposed to be professional fighters and that behaviour was like a spoilt child.


Yeah, Julian's a dick, but he's clearly pretty vulnerable - I agree that he probably shouldn't be there. Secor's just a natural bully though, who enjoys watching weaker people break down, and stirring the pot for his own entertainment. He's a nasty little cunt.


----------



## tendril (Nov 8, 2012)

Corax said:


> Yeah, Julian's a dick, but he's clearly pretty vulnerable - I agree that he probably shouldn't be there. Secor's just a natural bully though, who enjoys watching weaker people break down, and stirring the pot for his own entertainment. He's a nasty little cunt.


I'll say it again, it's professional fighters. They don't have to be nice fellows.


----------



## Corax (Nov 8, 2012)

tendril said:


> I'll say it again, it's professional fighters. They don't have to be nice fellows.


I don't give a shit what someone's job is, they're still meant to demonstrate some degree of humanity.  Plenty of fighters manage that.


----------



## tendril (Nov 8, 2012)

Corax said:


> I don't give a shit what someone's job is, they're still meant to demonstrate some degree of humanity. Plenty of fighters manage that.


All I'm saying is that the nature of the sport will attract unsavoury characters.


----------



## elbows (Nov 9, 2012)

Strikeforce is done, last show will be in January. Which means the women will probably move to UFC where they can properly promote Ronda Rousey.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 9, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing Cornier in the UFC. Always enjoy watching Rousey. My wife likes watching female MMA, not so much the men's - but she can't watch Rousey - she has a phobia around bones dislocating/breaking.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 13, 2012)

This is bonkers:


----------



## elbows (Nov 17, 2012)

Sure has been a long time since the last GSP fight, so I might stay up to watch tonights show.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Nov 18, 2012)

elbows said:


> Sure has been a long time since the last GSP fight, so I might stay up to watch tonights show.


 
make sure you do, I'v just watched it and gsp v conduit is an awesome fight! don''t miss it!


----------



## elbows (Nov 18, 2012)

Yes I stayed up and watched it but will not say anything else as people here can be tetchy about spoilers and I dont think I've got anything to say thats worth using the spoiler code for.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 18, 2012)

Where could one download the GSP-Condit fight?  Just so I know to notify the relevant authorities of course....


----------



## Bruce23 (Nov 18, 2012)

St. Pierre vs. Condit was quite a war.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 19, 2012)

What a fight! And the knockout on the other fight was pretty mental.

The only place I could find decent downloads was Piratebay.se with a VPN. They are super quick at removing UFC from Usenet.


----------



## tendril (Nov 30, 2012)

Spoiler: TUF The smashes



Anybody watch last night's The Smashes. It really looked like X threw the fight with Rob. He was barely hit and he went down and wouldn't defend or fight back. And he's supposed to be ex 'special forces' from SA (I have met some SA special forces and they are hard as nails)

It's my opinion that the Aussie team asked him to throw it as they know he would be beaten by Brad if he won that fight and that Rob has a better chance of winning the fight with Brad.

All in all a really poor performance I reckon


----------



## Structaural (Nov 30, 2012)

tendril said:


> Spoiler: TUF The smashes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler



It certainly was strange - I thought that when he Muay Thai pushed him onto the floor, his elbow hit him in the jaw, but I couldn't see it. But that could be true. Xavier already got beat didn't he?


----------



## tendril (Nov 30, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It certainly was strange - I thought that when he Muay Thai pushed him onto the floor, his elbow hit him in the jaw, but I couldn't see it. But that could be true. Xavier already got beat didn't he?





Spoiler



just watched the fight again and x was really just pushed down to the ground, not much of an elbow contact and the punch didn't land. There was no attempt to defend on the ground, he just hedgehogged. When the ref called time he didn't seem really phased. It all looked like an act to me. And yes he was beaten before but was reinstated due to injury


----------



## Structaural (Dec 10, 2012)

Spoiler: UFC on FOX5



Man, what a card, haven't seen the prelims - can't find them, I've heard they're pretty good too.
Matt Brown - boom! BJ Penn completely outclassed by weirdo Rory, his corner and team are shit. Henderson also outclassed Nate Diaz, he barely got a punch in, I was surprised. Henderson also fought the whole fight with a toothpick in  
Rua vs Gustaffson was a war - that dude can take a hit, I think he could be a good contender for Bones, he's got some lovely Judo throws. Love Shogun - such a warrior. 
Some of the best decision fights I've seen in a while.


----------



## tendril (Dec 11, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Spoiler: UFC on FOX5
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: UFC on FOX5






Spoiler






Spoiler



Yeah I don't like henderson. the way he smoothes his hair and looks at the camera between rounds. Great moment when diaz gave him the finger when he was going for a leg lock. Shame he couldn't get his boxing off properly. Should have checked all those lead leg kicks. Reckon henderson will be there for a while though as he has an ability to completely neutralise strikers (think of the cerrone fight).


----------



## Structaural (Dec 11, 2012)

Spoiler: sppoylur



I don't mind benderson, seems a nice enough guy, not as vain and weird as hipster MacDonald. Check out Jack Slack's striking breakdowns on bloodyelbow for good insight into why BJ Penn, Nate and even Gustafferson struggled with their opponents. The Diaz's have a very narrow stance, turn their lead foot in, giving them added range but making them particularly susceptible to leg kicks. Also very slow to turn. Diaz blamed an eye injury but I think Henderson just negated him.
All the fighters I wanted to win didn't, but then I didn't expect them to to be honest. I thought Nate would box the shit out of Henderson but he didn't. BJ didn't stand a chance and since Shogun has given up on leg kicks nor did he.
Saw the prelims last night, they're all excellent too. A couple of fantastic knock-outs. Best card for sometime.[spoiler/]


----------



## tendril (Dec 11, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Spoiler: sppoylur
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: sppoylur



got a linky for the prelims?


----------



## Structaural (Dec 11, 2012)

Spoiler: shhhhhhhhh



https://www.dropbox.com/s/tfqtnbwd9c80sat/UFC.On.FOX.5.Henderson.vs.Diaz.Prelims.HDTV.x264-DX.mp4

(I see you don't have to end the spoiler tag).

I'll leave that up for a few days.


----------



## tendril (Dec 11, 2012)

ta

But if you leave the end tag off all quotes become spoilers


----------



## Structaural (Dec 11, 2012)

oh yeah


----------



## tendril (Dec 12, 2012)

Spoiler:  UFC on Fox Prelims



Yeah, really good prelims. That knockout of little heathen was class and from a guy ten years his senior


----------



## Structaural (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm glad that happened. Don't know if you know, the guy he knocked out is up on major assault charges (him and a friend beat some guy up in a bar and when he fled to his car they dragged him from it and beat him for 10 mins so badly he had to be resuscitated twice on the way to hospital - all in front of the geezer's girlfriend - I don't know the full story but there isn't much to justify that level of beating from a professional fighter), they let him out to fight.


----------



## tendril (Dec 12, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I'm glad that happened. Don't know if you know, the guy he knocked out is up on major assault charges (him and a friend beat some guy up in a bar and when he fled to his car they dragged him from it and beat him for 10 mins so badly he had to be resuscitated twice on the way to hospital - all in front of the geezer's girlfriend - I don't know the full story but there isn't much to justify that level of beating from a professional fighter), they let him out to fight.


Poetic justice then and witnessed my thousands


----------



## Structaural (Dec 14, 2012)

Both TUF Finals this weekend.


----------



## tendril (Dec 14, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Both TUF Finals this weekend.


Is it the coaches fights too? Really looking forward to seeing Ross put a pounding on George and I hope that mr belly does it again with a huge haymaker that puts Carwin out. But maybe that's just my bloodlust showing through.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 14, 2012)

Yep, Carwin's out with an injury though. Mitrione replaces him. Aus UK tonight. US tomorrow night.


----------



## tendril (Dec 14, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Yep, Carwin's out with an injury though. Mitrione replaces him. Aus UK tonight. US tomorrow night.


wikid


----------



## tendril (Dec 15, 2012)

Spoiler:  UFC The Smashes Final



Well I was surprised at Norman's win over the Freakshow. Colin didn't seem to be able to get into his rhythm until the final round., Still I reckon he'll be back. Rob put on a good show that got better as he settled in. Props to my namesake for getting the job done in the main event. Also Hector looked really good, much better than his first UFC performance. Perhaps, as has been suggested, he does have the hand speed to take on Silva


----------



## tendril (Dec 17, 2012)

Spoiler:  TUF The Final



Oh yes, Oh yes, Oh fucking yes! Great card. Nice to see Colton get the win though he seemed at a loss to be able to finish his man. Johnny Bedford, sweet as a nut, great fight. Then of course my hero mr belly himself gets the job done in spectacular fashion. I was loving Mitriones words pre fight "I'm gonna out athlete him". Yeah Matt, should have kept your hand up instead 

Then Rogan lets it be known that Big Country ony started srtiking in 2009. His reply "Well it's a lot easier than all that jiujitsu stuff", and that coming from a black belt under Renzo. Really gotta love the guy.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 18, 2012)

tendril said:


> Spoiler:  UFC The Smashes Final
> 
> 
> 
> Well I was surprised at Norman's win over the Freakshow. Colin didn't seem to be able to get into his rhythm until the final round., Still I reckon he'll be back. Rob put on a good show that got better as he settled in. Props to my namesake for getting the job done in the main event. Also Hector looked really good, much better than his first UFC performance. Perhaps, as has been suggested, he does have the hand speed to take on Silva


 


Spoiler: TUFs



Yeah Colin seemed very hesitant to pull the trigger but Rob's judo throws were excellent (seeing a lot of excellent Judo throwing recently). Pearson put on a boxing clinic, thought he might lose to submission so very happy with that result, greats slips and counters. George punched Ross's boxing trainer during the show (and allegedly, subsequently got knocked the fuck out) so there was bad blood between them. Hector looked good, but they're a pair of over muscled little people, Anderson would serve him up, knees to the face without a clinch  Palhares broke his foot on his 2nd kick so he wasn't quite himself. Not that it would have made much difference I wouldn't have thought.

What a lot of knockouts! Great finish by Big Country, fucking superb finish by Pat Barry. Lovely knee by Pyle, thought he was going to lose that. Brookin needs to go away and learn how to move his head, get some basic boxing training. I suppose Colton was the better fighter, bit too wrestlefuck for me, boring going for an almost impossible to get RNC constantly. But the Canadian guy's ground game was sorely tested (he trains with GSP and Rory MacDonald). Dullest fight of the night. Trying to find the prelims as I hear they were very good too.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 18, 2012)

Spoiler: best comment on Colton



"This is easy, being in the army is hard". 
Fluid mechanics is hard, you don't see Shane Carwin shouting his head off about mechanical engineering after a fight.


----------



## tendril (Dec 18, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Spoiler: TUFs
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler:  the smashes



Where did you hear that about Pearson's boxing trainer?


----------



## Structaural (Dec 18, 2012)

Here you go http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2012/...-punched-coach-was-knocked-out-in-tuf-filming

Here's a Jack Slack breakdown of the fight: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/12/...vs-pearson-jack-slack-breakdown-mma-technique

Worth looking out for other Jack Slack stuff on there, he's an english striking expert who breaks down strikers a lá Gracie breakdown. He's better than Rogan and Goldie


----------



## gawkrodger (Dec 22, 2012)

don't forget the russian sambo guy!


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 31, 2012)

gawkrodger said:


> don't forget the russian sambo guy!


 
Check out this spinning wheel kick KO as well:


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 5, 2013)

Fights start in an hour. costs a couple of quid to watch 

http://invictafc.com/


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 6, 2013)

Brutal Muay Thai KO's, anyone? Check out the second KO with the elbow strike:


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 6, 2013)

http://wmr-sports.net/view.php?pg=page

free now


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 7, 2013)

Elbows anybody? Dinner is served:


----------



## tendril (Jan 11, 2013)

Spoiler: Santos v Velasquez



Anyone expect that? Looked like he was half asleep for most of that fight. The miller fight was just awesome.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 12, 2013)

anyone got a link for a free stream for strike force today?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 14, 2013)

I've been getting addicted to UFC recently. I can remember watching one of my brother's videos like 10+ years ago and didn't think much of it then. But I've been really wanting to do some sort of martial arts as a fitness thing to help me when I can't play rugby and downloaded some UFC while I was looking for martial arts stuff. Suddenly I just 'got it'. Even the grappling stuff, which is often seen as a bit more boring is good.

I've started watching 'The Smashes', which seems good as I like all the training related stuff too. Looking to get my hands on documentaries too (just watched the Anderson Silva doc) with good training footage too.

If anyone can recommend some good fights to me, then that would be great.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 14, 2013)

look through the thread ReturnOfElfman Lots of great fights are linked to


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 14, 2013)

I was just afraid of spoilers...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 14, 2013)

for ground work watch this one?


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 15, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> If anyone can recommend some good fights to me, then that would be great.


 
Your wish is my command...


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 16, 2013)

Just watched 'The Smashing Machine' documentary. Filled in quite a bit I didn't know about MMA previously. Good watch if you haven't seen it.


----------



## tendril (Jan 18, 2013)

Belfort V Bisping: Who's your money on?

I'm rooting for Vitor just because I do love to see Bisping get a hammering (a la Hendo) but a decent sub from Vitor would satisfy me just as much.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 18, 2013)

I want Bisping to win, he's got a good chance. Good hands, good TKD and good in the guard. If he can survive Vitor's initial onslaught then he's got a good chance.


----------



## tendril (Jan 18, 2013)

Structaural said:


> I want Bisping to win, he's got a good chance. Good hands, good TKD and good in the guard. If he can survive Vitor's initial onslaught then he's got a good chance.


I only want him to lose cause he's a gobshite lolz. Good fighter though and was robbed in his fight with the other mr motormouth sonnen.


----------



## elbows (Jan 20, 2013)

I cant make a prediction because I've forgotten what Vitor is like.

I dont exactly like Bispings personality but he's worked hard over the years and it would be a shame if he never got a title shot, and if he loses this fight then theres a fair chance he wont.

Im not sure if I can be bothered to stay up to watch the show.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm watching it as i type 

i hope Bisping wins but its gonna be hard for him, not just beacause its a very Brazilian crowd, if  Belfort doesnt get a ko or submission early on Bisping may be in luck


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 20, 2013)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## last16 (Jan 20, 2013)

who won?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 20, 2013)

last16 said:


> who won?


 
i sent you a message titled 'only open of you want the result of the ufc'


----------



## tendril (Jan 20, 2013)

Spoiler: Belfort-Bisping



Ouch!


----------



## tendril (Jan 21, 2013)

Just got tickets to see Barao vs McDonald at Wembley Arena on 16th Feb . Stand D2 as well which are pretty close seats.


----------



## gavman (Jan 23, 2013)

close enough to get a hat?



it's a tradition begun in london, after all


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 23, 2013)

I'm in the middle of TUF S16. Why the hell did they pick Nelson as a coach, other than for comedic value?


----------



## tendril (Jan 23, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> I'm in the middle of TUF S16. Why the hell did they pick Nelson as a coach, other than for comedic value?


 Because he's a great fighter. He goe's against everything that dana wants the ufc to be, ripped bodies, etc etc, and he just bucks the trend. I have a lot of time for Roy. You got to remember that TUF is selectively edited and he had some very good points. When his team were complaining that they weren't getting enough training sessions he said "well they have a pool, why not go for a swim". A very valid point. If you want to win something you must put in the leg work yourself. Anyone that felt they weren't getting enough cardio workouts could take it upon themselves to do some swimming or running at the house. You can teach someone skill but you cant fight their fight for them and you can't teach them heart.

Have you watched the TUF 16 final yet?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 23, 2013)

tendril said:


> Because he's a great fighter. He goe's against everything that dana wants the ufc to be, ripped bodies, etc etc, and he just bucks the trend. I have a lot of time for Roy. You got to remember that TUF is selectively edited and he had some very good points. When his team were complaining that they weren't getting enough training sessions he said "well they have a pool, why not go for a swim". A very valid point. If you want to win something you must put in the leg work yourself. Anyone that felt they weren't getting enough cardio workouts could take it upon themselves to do some swimming or running at the house. You can teach someone skill but you cant fight their fight for them and you can't teach them heart.
> 
> Have you watched the TUF 16 final yet?


 
I totally understand the way it's edited and they've chosen 2 contrasting coaches that will make things more interesting too.

Great fighters don't always make good coaches though and he just seems to unorthodox for most fighters to be able to get much out of from what I can see.

Not seen the final yet but even if one of his fighters win it doesn't mean he's that good of a coach either. 

This is all from someone that doesn't have an extensive knowledge on any combat sports though 

I'm also watching season 9 (UK v USA). I don't understand why people don't like Bisping. He's nothing in comparison to someone like Sonnen when it come to talking.


----------



## tendril (Jan 23, 2013)

I don't feel that they showed much actual coaching on TUF 16, but if you watch him when he is cornering his fighter he is very patient and level, never getting too excited, where as carwin doesn't corner his boys at all, just leaves it down to his assistant coaches. You gotta remember thet Nelson won his season of TUF so he knows how to do it.

I also have no actual combat experience


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 23, 2013)

tendril said:


> I don't feel that they showed much actual coaching on TUF 16, but if you watch him when he is cornering his fighter he is very patient and level, never getting too excited, where as carwin doesn't corner his boys at all, just leaves it down to his assistant coaches. You gotta remember thet Nelson won his season of TUF so he knows how to do it.
> 
> I also have no actual combat experience


 
I think Nelson's advice seems shit a lot of the time compared to the guys Carwin puts in though. I know Nelson won it before but it's not always easy translating your own success for other people to use IYSWIM. But yeh, I think compared to the Smashes, which was on at the same time as this, it doesn't show as much of the coaching side.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 24, 2013)

Actually, I have to say, Nelson has got better as the show has gone


----------



## tendril (Jan 24, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Actually, I have to say, Nelson has got better as the show has gone


as I said, all in the editing. It is no secret that Dana and Roy have opposing views on just about everything, but then Dana is not the one getting into the cage so I know who's opinion I'd trust given the choice.


----------



## junglevip (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought you martial arts types might appreciate this:



Geoff Thompson - A great man


----------



## junglevip (Jan 24, 2013)

I have had a quick look and it awesome from the bit that I saw

Edit:

Just finished watching it in between peeling onions etc and it is a superb take on violence and empathy.  The warriors path to enlightenment.  Well that's how I took it anyway.  The two *dudes* ahem doing the interview are astounded by his candor and insight.  Worth a look and probably deserves a post in the philosophy sub


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 25, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Spoiler: best comment on Colton
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: TUF



Just got around to watching the whole series and finale. Sick of him banging on about the military all the time. This was a house half full of tossers and he was one of the worst. Can't stand the proud military types. Boring to watch as a fighter too. Saying that, most of the fights in the series were boring compared to others I've seen.


----------



## tendril (Jan 25, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Spoiler: TUF
> 
> 
> 
> Just got around to watching the whole series and finale. Sick of him banging on about the military all the time. This was a house half full of tossers and he was one of the worst. Can't stand the proud military types. Boring to watch as a fighter too. Saying that, most of the fights in the series were boring compared to others I've seen.


You're gonna love TUF 17. Watched the 'get into the house' fights and there are gonna be some bangers in there. TUF 16 was full of lame losers imho. Not one of them shone out, and without giving the game away , neither weight-class winner in the TUF16 finals will stay in the UFC very long unless they buck up.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 25, 2013)

I think I'm going to watch the Brazilian one next and start watching S17 after that. I get sick of all the US fighters as they seem to have too many egos, bang on about Jesus and the military too much and the edit focuses too much on in-house dramas.


----------



## tendril (Jan 25, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> I think I'm going to watch the Brazilian one next and start watching S17 after that. I get sick of all the US fighters as they seem to have too many egos, bang on about Jesus and the military too much and the edit focuses too much on in-house dramas.


where do you get the streams from? I only watch on sky (ESPN).... do you have a link for the other TUFs and UFC main fights?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 25, 2013)

i just download torrents. All newer series and fights available on well known sites, but been downloading S9 (US v UK) on rutracker (just waiting for the last episode and finale).


----------



## tendril (Jan 25, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> i just download torrents. All newer series and fights available on well known sites, but been downloading S9 (US v UK) on rutracker (just waiting for the last episode and finale).


I'm a bit of a luddite when it comes to torrents. Would you pm me a link for software and sites if you have chance please?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 31, 2013)

I've watched the 1st few episodes of the Brazil TUF and the commercialisation of it a bit irritating. Product placements all over the job (I've noticed it in other ones but not as many as this).

The fights are generally of a good standard though. I expect a few of these guys are in UFC now...

E2A: I think they're more OTT on religion that the US guys...


----------



## tendril (Jan 31, 2013)

Spoiler: TUF17-Open at your peril



Watched the first proper TUF 17 last night. Really odd pick by Jones and has given Sonnen control. Teaser for next week's episode ends with a scene of someone being carted off in an ambulance. Having watched last night's episode I know it's one of two guys. I wonder which one. I'm inclined to go with Sonnen's guy getting the win but the teaser doesn't give anything away so we shall see.


----------



## tendril (Jan 31, 2013)

Just received our tickets for UFC at wembly and my t shirt for the night:



We're in pretty good seats so may even get my ugly mug on the telly


----------



## Structaural (Feb 1, 2013)

tendril said:


> Spoiler: TUF17-Open at your peril
> 
> 
> 
> Watched the first proper TUF 17 last night. Really odd pick by Jones and has given Sonnen control. Teaser for next week's episode ends with a scene of someone being carted off in an ambulance. Having watched last night's episode I know it's one of two guys. I wonder which one. I'm inclined to go with Sonnen's guy getting the win but the teaser doesn't give anything away so we shall see.


 


Spoiler: TUF



Yeah, that was a strange pick by Bones - he's not the brightest and is well young? The team were really shit though - so what if Gilbert wasn't up to it, Jones made the pick don't blame the kid, help him get himself ready. Shit team.
I'm surprised that this is the first series that I'm actually enjoying. Less bullshit, more training. I'm actually starting to like Sonnen (noooooo!).
That was a black dude that went into the back of the van, so that's spoilt that unless it's from another fight - you can see his face for a few frames .[spoiler/]


----------



## tendril (Feb 2, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Spoiler: TUF
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



oh noez, I chose to open that. Damn my impatience, though in the teaser (online, not after the show) they showed a knee to the head but it was two white dudes (only a couple of frames) And yes, the bones team aren't pulling together, and it did look like a right ambush.


 
eta



Spoiler



yes you are right, just a frame of a black face going into the wagon. Hope he's ok )


----------



## elbows (Feb 3, 2013)

Spoiler



Ha ha ha, Overeem got knocked out. I hate drug cheats, and I thought he got off too lightly for his previous shenanigans. Oh what a surprise, his body looked rather different in this fight because the threat of random drug tests hung over him. So I was most amused to see him get tired and pay the price, cocky wanker.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 3, 2013)

elbows said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha, Overeem got knocked out. I hate drug cheats, and I thought he got off too lightly for his previous shenanigans. Oh what a surprise, his body looked rather different in this fight because the threat of random drug tests hung over him. So I was most amused to see him get tired and pay the price, cocky wanker.


 
classic


----------



## tendril (Feb 3, 2013)

Agreed:



Spoiler



No one predicted this. I can just imagine what Silva is saying to him in the last one:


----------



## tendril (Feb 6, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Spoiler: TUF
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: TUF17



well, it was Mr Hall with the win after all. Jones went with his guy in the back of the ambulance so maybe his was the face we saw briefly. I must say, Sonnen is a totally different person on this show that what I expected him to be. Quite liking him now, even opening up and admitting to having seen a sports psychologist. He's always said the trash talk is part of the game in the UFC but we've seen none of it on the show. Very respectful of his opponent's fighters and of his ultimate opponent. Still think he''s gonna get a pasting in the coaches fight though


----------



## Structaural (Feb 6, 2013)

tendril said:


> Just got tickets to see Barao vs McDonald at Wembley Arena on 16th Feb . Stand D2 as well which are pretty close seats.


 
Finally a fight I can watch with a live stream without staying up until 4am.


----------



## tendril (Feb 6, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Finally a fight I can watch with a live stream without staying up until 4am.


I'll be wearing the T shirt in my post above, so if the camera pans past us you may just get to see my ugly mug on TV


----------



## Structaural (Feb 6, 2013)

elbows said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha, Overeem got knocked out. I hate drug cheats, and I thought he got off too lightly for his previous shenanigans. Oh what a surprise, his body looked rather different in this fight because the threat of random drug tests hung over him. So I was most amused to see him get tired and pay the price, cocky wanker.


 


Spoiler: UFC



I'm a fan of 'reem, but man what a shitty strategy. Hands up twat! Stop being cocky in the HW division - you've been knocked out by 205ers. Very disappointing. Bigfoot is a drug cheat too. Here's a superb photo - just look at Herb's face:






Enjoyed the Jose-Edgar fight, nice decision win - I'm not much of a fan of Edgar, all weaving head and pitter patter - he always thinks he wins decisions because of point striking. A harder punch or kick takes longer to throw generally. I'd give him the 4th for that takedown though.

Rashad-little Nog - lame, it is hard fighting a south paw, but he should have done better than that.

Jon Fitch got 'jon fitched' - 3 rounds of RNC attempts 

Didn't watch the prelims - worth it?


----------



## elbows (Feb 6, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Spoiler: UFC
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a fan of 'reem, but man what a shitty strategy. Hands up twat! Stop being cocky in the HW division - you've been knocked out by 205ers. Very disappointing. Bigfoot is a drug cheat too. Here's a superb photo - just look at Herb's face:


 


Spoiler



Well sadly I am under the impression that the entire sport is riddled with a variety of drug issues, but it seems I get more wound up by those who blatantly run away from tests, come up with crap excuses once caught, or whose punishments and re-licensing makes a complete mockery of the athletic commissions. A large chunk of the journalism on the subject is also pathetic, they are often dying to move on and not let the drug test failures taint the big names and promising rivalries. There is a particular comic-book muscled look which adds to me getting wound up by this stuff, and Overeem falls into many of these categories so he gets extra hate from me. However I am aware that some people without the comic bodies will be using performance enhancing drugs too, and some peoples genetics & training regimen means they can achieve at least partially freaky bodies without going mad on the juice. In any case its quickly getting back into the title picture when returning from drug suspensions that really gets to me, and since Overeems cocky stupidity cost him his shot, I can chill over this one now.

The real tragedy from my point of view is that I didnt actually see the fight, I just read about it and saw a couple of insufficient highlights, so thanks to everyone who posted pictures.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Feb 7, 2013)

tendril said:


> Spoiler: TUF17
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



It couldn't of been anything else but Uriah getting the knock out.

tbh I had some respect for Sonnen before because he's a guy that does go back in to the community and helps kids out with their wrestling and works pretty hard. And now he's showing his good side on TUF. The only reason he's done all the trash talk is so he can get more money really. Not surprising since he has been found guilty of money laundering and tried to stand for the Republicans  before.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 7, 2013)

elbows said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: UFC



It wasn't just his lack of testosterone, he dropped his entire normal gameplan that protects his glass jaw. Weird. Blackzillions - his camp are getting a load of stick - Rashad also lost stupidly and Vitor is their only current winning competitor. Jack Slack breaks it down well here:
I highly recommend the Aldo Edgar fight though - 5 rounds of relentless pace (I have that in my Dropbox if you'd like it).


----------



## Structaural (Feb 7, 2013)

tendril said:


> Spoiler: TUF17
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: TUF



Dayum! That was a knockout. According to reports that 'concussion' breathing he was doing didn't start for about 30 secs - I think they thought Uriah had killed him. Looked like a broken jaw too. I thought that other bloke wasn't doing too bad up until then.
Sonnen is good coach. Jones is just a kid, most of the fighters look older than him. Enjoying this series - I'm not always fast forwarding to the fights as I normally do.


 
oops


----------



## Structaural (Feb 8, 2013)

Interesting article on Luke Cage, sorry, Overeem concerning steroids, lack of steroids and muscle burnout by a doctor:

http://fightland.vice.com/blog/fight-doctor---alistair-overeems-muscle-burnout


----------



## tendril (Feb 8, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Interesting article on Luke Cage, sorry, Overeem concerning steroids, lack of steroids and muscle burnout by a doctor:
> 
> http://fightland.vice.com/blog/fight-doctor---alistair-overeems-muscle-burnout


good article


----------



## elbows (Feb 13, 2013)

Nice, love the animated gif 

Cris Cyborg can piss off as well. Spent years unfairly beating on women with her unnatural advantage, got busted, still gets offered the big UFC fight but instead chooses to come up with crap excuses why she cant cut weight. Wants to be released from her UFC contract and sounds like her wish will soon be granted - good, didnt deserve the fight with Rousey anyway, even though the was the potential money fight in the womens division. Pisses me off because she was a pretty skilled fighter even without the freaky body, but doesnt want to change so I guess thats that. The idea that cutting weight would have affected her future ability to get pregnant, considering what else she has done to her body, rather wound me up, these excuses suck.


----------



## elbows (Feb 16, 2013)

You probably wont be surprised to learn that I'm not exactly impressed with whats been happening with testosterone replacement therapy and therapeutic use exemptions in recent years. So I am pleased that Dana White has gone off on a huge rant about it:

http://www.mmamania.com/2013/2/15/3...heating-vitor-belfort-michael-bisping-ufc-mma




> _"TRT has become a way for people to cheat. If this is what your normal level should be and then you have guys training at huge levels (of testosterone) for their whole camp then tapering down to get to normal levels before the fucking fight, that's cheating, and I don't like it anymore."
> 
> "There are plenty of guys in the UFC that are naturally gifted and talented fighters. If you're testosterone levels are too low then you're probably too old to be fighting, stop fighting! "
> 
> ...


----------



## tendril (Feb 16, 2013)

elbows said:


> You probably wont be surprised to learn that I'm not exactly impressed with whats been happening with testosterone replacement therapy and therapeutic use exemptions in recent years. So I am pleased that Dana White has gone off on a huge rant about it:
> 
> http://www.mmamania.com/2013/2/15/3...heating-vitor-belfort-michael-bisping-ufc-mma


Maybe Dana will have a bit more respect for Big Country now as he's been a very vocal advocate of mandatory testing.


http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/10/31/3580704/ufc-roy-nelson-vada-drug-testing-shane-carwin

http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012...-pay-his-next-opponents-drug-testing-mma-news

http://www.mmaconvert.com/2012/05/25/roy-nelson-not-happy-with-current-drug-testing-in-mma/


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 16, 2013)

Todays UFC, free streaming right now 

http://www.rojadirecta.me/goto/hippiesharing.com/stream1.html


----------



## Bruce23 (Feb 16, 2013)

Performance Enhancing Drugs are ruining sports. Entire MMA events and major fights  have been canceled because of drug tests. I despise cheating of any kind but I sometimes wonder if the effort to stop doping is worth it in the long run. All fighters and athletes do their best to enhance their performance naturally. They take risks to their health all the time when they train, when they cut weight for fights etc. Even though things like steroids are illegal and unhealthy it's just a way to get the most performance out of your body that's possible. It's not in my opinion equivalent to cheating such as breaking the rules during a fight or bringing a foreign object in to a fight (ex. putting medal in your gloves).

I think they should do their best to make the competition fair it's just unfortunate that the enjoyment of the sport takes a hit because of it.


----------



## tendril (Feb 17, 2013)

Well that was an enjoyable evening.


----------



## Psychonaut (Feb 17, 2013)

junglevip said:


> I thought you martial arts types might appreciate this:
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff Thompson - A great man




great interview.  that youtube account is doing a series of MMA vids this week.

Fighting isnt my thing, but i like londonreals interview style enough that this is good viewing, even for an outsider.


----------



## junglevip (Feb 17, 2013)

Psychonaut said:


> great interview. that youtube account is doing a series of MMA vids this week.
> 
> Fighting isnt my thing, but i like londonreals interview style enough that this is good viewing, even for an outsider.


 
Yeah!  Geoff Thompson is one of the good guys  You dont have to be into 'fighting', but the martial arts are a good way of practicing Zen


----------



## elbows (Feb 18, 2013)

So Cyborg is fighting for the Invicta promotion but Tito is rubbish at press conferences and apparently they spent the whole time going on about Rousey and failed to mention the name of Cyborgs upcoming opponent or even the name of the promotion (Invicta) 

Perhaps this suggests she will still attempt to cut weight and fight Rousey eventually, but will be taking her time. Fair enough I suppose.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 18, 2013)

elbows said:


> Nice, love the animated gif
> 
> Cris Cyborg can piss off as well. Spent years unfairly beating on women with her unnatural advantage, got busted, still gets offered the big UFC fight but instead chooses to come up with crap excuses why she cant cut weight. Wants to be released from her UFC contract and sounds like her wish will soon be granted - good, didnt deserve the fight with Rousey anyway, even though the was the potential money fight in the womens division. Pisses me off because she was a pretty skilled fighter even without the freaky body, but doesnt want to change so I guess thats that. The idea that cutting weight would have affected her future ability to get pregnant, considering what else she has done to her body, rather wound me up, these excuses suck.


----------



## tendril (Feb 18, 2013)

elbows said:


> You probably wont be surprised to learn that I'm not exactly impressed with whats been happening with testosterone replacement therapy and therapeutic use exemptions in recent years. So I am pleased that Dana White has gone off on a huge rant about it:
> 
> http://www.mmamania.com/2013/2/15/3...heating-vitor-belfort-michael-bisping-ufc-mma


 


Spoiler: UFC at Wembley Arena 16-2-2013



At Wembly on Saturday night Tom Kong Watson was very vocal about his hatred of TRT, even alluding to his opponent (Stanislav Nedkov) as having used it as a cheating technique. Great fight, took a beating in rnd1 then cam back to win knock out of the night. Shame it was a prelim fight as we rushed home to watch it again only to find that they didn't show the prelims on ESPN, though have found a pretty grainy video of the fight online)


----------



## tendril (Feb 18, 2013)

UFC @ Wembley 2013:

We recorded the night on ESPN to watch again when we came home but they only showed the main card fights. Anyone got a link to the prelims?


----------



## junglevip (Feb 18, 2013)

tendril said:


> Just received our tickets for UFC at wembly and my t shirt for the night:
> 
> View attachment 28325
> 
> We're in pretty good seats so may even get my ugly mug on the telly


 
Its a bit British Numpty Party looking


----------



## tendril (Feb 18, 2013)

junglevip said:


> Its a bit British Numpty Party looking


sorry you don't like it. They only had the UFC/Union flag combo in red for sale or I'd have bought a different colour.


----------



## junglevip (Feb 18, 2013)

tendril said:


> sorry you don't like it. They only had the UFC/Union flag combo in red for sale or I'd have bought a different colour.


 
Oh I'll get over it.  If you are in need of any more fashion tips I'll do my very best too help


----------



## tendril (Feb 18, 2013)

junglevip said:


> Oh I'll get over it. If you are in need of any more fashion tips I'll do my very best too help


Looked even more as you described with my pot belly


----------



## junglevip (Feb 18, 2013)

Its a great look tendril, you wear it well!


----------



## tendril (Feb 18, 2013)

junglevip said:


> Its a great look tendril, you wear it well!


shelltoes n all eh?


----------



## tendril (Feb 18, 2013)

At least I wasn't up in the cheap seats where a real scrap broke out. Was a shame as it diverted attention from the co-main event. Twats.


----------



## tendril (Feb 19, 2013)

If anyone is interested here is tom watson vs. stanislav nedkov


http://vk.com/video3357256_164601730?hash=4f3763eb166c17b2


----------



## Structaural (Feb 19, 2013)

What.A.Fight.  

Battle of the strongest chin.


----------



## tendril (Feb 19, 2013)

Structaural said:


> What.A.Fight.
> 
> Battle of the strongest chin.





Spoiler: bonuses



no wonder they got fight of the night and watson got KO of the night


----------



## Bakunin (Feb 19, 2013)

NASTY KO on TUF:


----------



## tendril (Feb 19, 2013)

Bakunin said:


> NASTY KO on TUF:



yeah that was a corker. Well, they're consenting adults. Glad he's Ok though.


----------



## Bakunin (Feb 20, 2013)

This Muay Thai KO is pretty vicious as well:


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Feb 21, 2013)

Been watching UFC Primetime and it's all a bit too much The Ronda Rousey Show. Carmouche is only on about 1/4 of it just to mention that she's a lesbian ex-Marine before Rousey has the spotlight thrust upon her to tell every sob story that's happened in her life. I was only wanting to watch the training stuff, not the life story of one of them. This is one of the things that annoys me about UFC. It's like it's trying to be more like the WWF with all the focus on stories outside of the cage.


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2013)

I know that infuriates people who are more interested in the 'pure' sporting aspects of fighting but at the end of the day the promoters know what makes money, and its not about the pure sporting aspects in the ring/cage.Its about telling human interest stories that get far more people interested than would otherwise be the case. Its not new, its not going away, and when things turn out well the UFC is actually better at doing it than either the pro-wrestling or boxing promotions tend to be most of the time. I doubt UFC would even have setup a womens division if it wasnt for the mainstream interest in Rousey, they certainly didnt sound very interested in it in the past.


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2013)

On a similar note its possible to imagine the UFC doing a womens division a bit earlier using the mainstream interest in Gina Carano, had things turned out differently. But after weight-cutting problems and then other undisclosed issues that lead to a Strikeforce fight cancellation, and then her ability to develop a different career, we didnt really get a chance to see that happen.

At least Rousey has a great gift in terms of submission skills so once its fight time you can concentrate on the technical aspects rather than the personality-driven promotion you dont like.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 22, 2013)

C arm ouch e


----------



## tendril (Feb 23, 2013)

Structaural said:


> C arm ouch e


still, it's never a done deal.......


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 24, 2013)

what marmite man  put in spoilers for me cos i don't know how to do that vvv


----------



## tendril (Feb 25, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler



I thought Carmouch had her in that first headlock but she's just too good at that armbar. Wonder how it will all pan out if they really start promoting womens MMA. Bit disappointed with the Machida/Hendo match, couple of other good uns in there. Dennis Bermudez v Matt Grice was a great and close fight and Urija seems to be back on top of his game.


----------



## tendril (Feb 25, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> what marmite man put in spoilers for me cos i don't know how to do that vvv


lolz


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 25, 2013)

spoiler practise...


```
i hope this works!
```


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 25, 2013)

Damn


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 25, 2013)

Spoiler: Women's MMA at UFC



_I'm proud to be able to say I watched the first woman's ufc match up. A moment of history in the making, there was such a lot riding on those two's shoulders. Shame it finished so early but good result! I really really hope that womans ufc keeps on. It seemed to me as if they had saved a bit of money by making up the rest of the card with lower ranking fighters, as if Dana didn't want to quite commit. Hopefully people will start to get into following the woman now, as usual when woman move into traditional male roles they always have to work harder and prove themselves more._





Spoiler: Women's MMA at UFC



_gotta say i can't wait for diaz/pierre match up next though![/spolier]_


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 25, 2013)

ha!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 25, 2013)

Spoiler: so some people are saying that



Rousey tapped out  i'm not so sure tbh, i don't think it was a tap and the judges obviously didn't. can;t wait to see her fight cyborg


 
oh yes !


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 25, 2013)

Spoiler



faber v menjivar was my favourite fight of 157, awesome standing choke!


 
and again!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 25, 2013)

Spoiler: thank you 



tendril


----------



## tendril (Feb 25, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> Spoiler: thank you
> 
> 
> 
> tendril


 
Welcome


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2013)

anyone watching? free live streaming of the prelims on UFC face book page as i type


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2013)

Spoiler:  there's even 



Japanese ring girls


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2013)

Spoiler: what a good fight! 



even the commentator described a take down as gorgeous


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2013)

omgosh! i am so keen for the 



Spoiler



pierre v diaz fight!


 
and! 



Spoiler



Mark  Hunt!


 what a legend!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2013)

My heart wants silva to win but my head says stan


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2013)

Great card! but if you watch only one fight from it, make sure its the main event! 

outrageous violence!

and.....only open if you want to see who won...



Spoiler



Silva wins by KO in the second round


----------



## tendril (Mar 3, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> Great card! but if you watch only one fight from it, make sure its the main event!
> 
> outrageous violence!
> 
> ...


watching now


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2013)

tendril said:


> watching now


 
i hope you didn't open my carefully prepared spoiler?  one of the other fights i really enjoyed was 



Spoiler



Rani Yahya v Mizuto Hirota


 


Spoiler



Yahya


 was just so  ridiculously gassed by the end!


----------



## tendril (Mar 3, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> i hope you didn't open my carefully prepared spoiler?  one of the other fights i really enjoyed was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Oh noez Icey.... the live broadcast over-ran and I didn't record the following program on sky so it cut off half way through the co-main event. It's repeated on tuesday so I hope they show the whole card. I know I could probably find a download/torrent but I like to watch it in HD on the telly

For now I'm taking this thread off my watchlist so I'm not tempted by your spoilers


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2013)

oh bummer! you have a treat in store though


----------



## Structaural (Mar 4, 2013)

Great night!



Spoiler: spoiler



Struve's jaw after that knockout: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








[spoiler/]


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 6, 2013)

Just watched the fights from the weekend. Brilliant


----------



## Structaural (Mar 6, 2013)

The power of Bas Rutten's favourite technique:

http://fightland.vice.com/blog/fight-doctor---the-liver-kick


----------



## sim667 (Mar 6, 2013)

What can you watch MMA fights on? ESPN?

I survive off crappy dvd's my mate lends me that are years out of date


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 7, 2013)

Try searching for torrents thats what I do

I've just been watching some old fights, currently an old Tito Ortiz v Wanderlei Silva one and it made me think back to when I watched UFC for the 1st time ever. I've just looked up what the UFC event was and it was UFC5 from 1995, although I watched it in around 2000/1 I think. I really wasn't impressed at the time as it never really grabbed my attention and its a bit annoying as that basically put me off attempting to watch MMA until last year and have been hooked since then.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 7, 2013)

I watched UFC 1 - 6 back in 1994 (used to get the videos from Chinatown). Lost interest, too much wrestling.

I managed to find every single UFC on torrents and have been gradually getting through them - up to about 85 now and catching up with myself. Interesting to see the progression. I highly recommend UFC 19-30 for the Tito, Colture, Chocolate Al bouts (30 is when Zuffa took over). Joe Rogan reappears at UFC 40.
UFC 1-10 are brutal - before weight classes and various other rule changes. Still great though.

Look for PRIDE stuff as well and K1 if you like standup. Most non-UFC stuff is on Youtube.


----------



## tendril (Mar 8, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Great night!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Fuck!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 9, 2013)

tendril said:


> Fuck!


 
wow! just wow! at struves jaw!  when you watch the footage hunt is having to punch upwards cos of the height difference so what a feat!

I cant wait for next week diaz/pierre fight. all the trash talking thats been going on all this week 

heres a good little highlight reel featuring womans mma


----------



## elbows (Mar 9, 2013)

sim667 said:


> What can you watch MMA fights on? ESPN?
> 
> I survive off crappy dvd's my mate lends me that are years out of date


 
I believe its moving from ESPN to Sky later this year, perhaps August.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 9, 2013)

Ive got virgin media


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 12, 2013)

Anyone watching the BAMMA events? Just watching 12 and the announcer is pissing me right off. It's like he putting on a fake US accent to copy the more well known ones but in a really annoying way


----------



## elbows (Mar 16, 2013)

The press conference with Diaz was quite wibble in places. He managed to wind St Pierre up at one point. His answer near the end about drug testing was also something else.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 16, 2013)

So fucking pumped for this! I love diaz...always have. Loved Dana White saying how ridiculous that weed was considered a performance enhancing or even pain killing drug! 

Nick re the weed thing

_"i tested for a metabolite or a nanogram or something, I've just done one more thing than i did last time, i'm sorry if i don't pass the test, i should pass, iv passed plenty of them before unless they just weren't testing me or something. i wonder how much they test people around here"_ diaz.


----------



## The Groke (Mar 16, 2013)

sim667 said:


> What can you watch MMA fights on? ESPN?
> 
> I survive off crappy dvd's my mate lends me that are years out of date


 
If it is a worthwhile event I do tend to buy the online PPV these days...UFC are so diligent on their DMCA requests that they can be a drag to get hold of online in good quality.


----------



## The Groke (Mar 16, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> wow! just wow! at struves jaw! when you watch the footage hunt is having to punch upwards cos of the height difference so what a feat!


 
Being an official Kiwi-by-proxy now I am a big Hunt supporter...I can't help thinking what would be if he actually committed to the thing and really trained...lost the weight and pushed the cardio!

Fair play for his 5 fight streak and for accepting a crack at Dos Santos, but I think he has bitten off more than he can chew here.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 16, 2013)

The Groke said:


> If it is a worthwhile event I do tend to buy the online PPV these days...UFC are so diligent on their DMCA requests that they can be a drag to get hold of online in good quality.


 
honestly just google, most events are streamed free and live on the net if you look around.

for tomorrows ufc 158 try...

http://www.firstrowsports1.net
or
http://smashingsports.co/ufc-158-gsp-vs-diaz/
or
http://tinyurl.com/ufc-158-livetv


----------



## The Groke (Mar 16, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> honestly just google, most events are streamed free and live on the net if you look around.
> 
> for tomorrows ufc 158 try...
> 
> ...


 
If they work, i will give 'em a crack! Cheers


----------



## tendril (Mar 16, 2013)

The Groke said:


> Being an official Kiwi-by-proxy now I am a big Hunt supporter...I can't help thinking what would be if he actually committed to the thing and really trained...lost the weight and pushed the cardio!
> 
> Fair play for his 5 fight streak and for accepting a crack at Dos Santos, but I think he has bitten off more than he can chew here.


I'd like to see him in with Nelson. Same height, similar build, similar power, both tough as alligator skin, though I think Roy would have the edge on the mat.


----------



## tendril (Mar 16, 2013)

The Groke said:


> If it is a worthwhile event I do tend to buy the online PPV these days...UFC are so diligent on their DMCA requests that they can be a drag to get hold of online in good quality.


I got it pon da record so I can watch it tomorrow morning. I seem unable to sleep past 7.30am any weekend, though conversely, cannot crowbar myself out of bed on a mon-fri


----------



## The Groke (Mar 16, 2013)

tendril said:


> I'd like to see him in with Nelson. Same height, similar build, similar power, both tough as alligator skin, though I think Roy would have the edge on the mat.


 

Oh for sure would be a great matchup!



tendril said:


> I got it pon da record so I can watch it tomorrow morning. I seem unable to sleep past 7.30am any weekend, though conversely, cannot crowbar myself out of bed on a mon-fri


 
Another advantage of having moved to New Zealand is that almost all the live events have become a pleasant way to spend a late Sunday afternoon!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 16, 2013)

prelims on now  and yes The Groke mnay of my sunday arvos are spent down the pub watching main events too 

http://www.youtube.com/ufc


----------



## last16 (Mar 17, 2013)

what time does it start?


----------



## The Groke (Mar 17, 2013)

last16 said:


> what time does it start?


 
Prelims on now, main event starts in about 40 minutes...3:00pm NZ time!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 17, 2013)

Spoiler



cries! it was technically very good and for Diaz to go all 5 rounds and gsp to be gassed by round 3 n all. But still i have seen Diaz fight so much better


 the 



Spoiler



condit v hendricks


 fight was a great one though! 

I had 2 friends win in their first round at Warriors realm last night though! one is only 18, Tyler, and already has 9 wins & no loses! all by ko, tko or submission! boys a beast, just still a night club loving teen though 






oh and following on from jason david franks (green power ranger) sending my sick (mma)son a T. shirt signed "strength and courage joe, ous!" oriol gaset aka the cookie monster is sending him the mma shorts he wore when he defeated sonny brown at brace  I told him he'd better wash them first! lol

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Oriol-Gaset-21180


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 17, 2013)

This is a good fight...I think we'll be seeing more of Connor Mcgregor!


----------



## tendril (Mar 18, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> cries! it was technically very good and for Diaz to go all 5 rounds and gsp to be gassed by round 3 n all. But still i have seen Diaz fight so much better


 


Spoiler



I loved Nick's comment between rnd 2 and 3 "win or lose, he hits like a bitch" (39MB MP4). GSP won that match purely on takedowns and I can see why Nick has had enough, he even mentioned it in the post fight interview. It's not like GSP did any considerable damage to him when he got him there. Hope Nick doesn't quit but understand why he wants to


 


ice-is-forming said:


> the
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Corker!

Good fights in the prelims too


----------



## The Groke (Mar 18, 2013)

DO we need to keep "spoilering" 48 hours after the event?

I'm going for it!

The whole thing made me sad.

GSP is technically brilliant but once again utterly sterile and joyless in victory. He only ever fights _not_ to lose. He hasn't finished a fight since early 2009 against Penn and he hasn't come close to looking like doing so either.

Diaz is all mouth and no trousers. The one chance he had was to overwhelm GSP with his aggression, excellent boxing and supreme cardio...and he didn't even start fighting until the 3rd and GSP still out-struck him. Rubbish. He doesn't deserve his rematch, that's for sure.

You can tell the UFC are overstretching themselves with the density of their events when they have utterly average ex-TUF fighters on the main card for a title event of that size; Camozzi, Ring, Fletcher and Ricci...dismal.

Thank fuck for Hendricks and Condit for saving the night - what a stormer. Hendricks is great - I hope he knocks GSP's boring head off with that left of his.

Condit just keeps going up and up in my estimation, even in defeat - what a stud. FTW


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 18, 2013)

i like spoilering The Groke i'v only just learnt how to do it  and look lazy lama has even put a 



Spoiler



special spoiler button in ^^^


 
anyway yes, it was very sad to see nick not really being nick for whatever reason, i haven't even watched the sports news since too dissapointed, I so wanted him to make gsp hurt! or do something/anything at least! he was just too peaceful, lost his aggression , i dunno 

but yeah! condit! he rocks hey!


----------



## tendril (Mar 19, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> i like spoilering The Groke i'v only just learnt how to do it  and look lazy lama has even put a
> 
> 
> 
> ...


did ya like my little video icey? tis in the spoiler


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 19, 2013)

tendril said:


> did ya like my little video icey? tis in the spoiler


 
yep! 

heres one of the local kid i was talking about up page ^^his manager is really trying to push for sponsorship so its all about tyler atm. meanwhile tyler isnt taking it that seriously, hes a natural talent and has room for the beer, birds and burnouts etc...


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 20, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> This is a good fight...I think we'll be seeing more of Connor Mcgregor!




He's been signed up by the UFC. That was him winning his second title in another weight class.
Very impressive so far. Think he's making octagon debut in April or May.

On another note, nick Diaz pointed out at the post-fpc that he's pro ably going to jail as he's never paid tax in his entire career. Was definitely missing something in that fight.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 20, 2013)

Anonymous1 said:


> He's been signed up by the UFC. That was him winning his second title in another wait class.
> Very impressive so far. Think he's making octagon debut in April or May.
> 
> On another note, nick Diaz pointed out at the post-fpc that he's pro ably going to jail as he's never paid tax in his entire career. Was definitely missing something in that fight.


 
wow!  i'll be looking forward to that debut  and yeah, diaz was just not himself, im a huge fan and something was very off. not cos he lost but in his style, mood everything


----------



## Structaural (Mar 20, 2013)

Here's the Gracie breakdown of GSP Diaz. Makes GSP strategies more obvious and why Diaz didn't start crazily striking. GSP has bored me for ages but no-one seems able to stop him doing what he does. I suppose it helps that he's almost always fighting at 'home'. 
Loved the Condit Hendricks fight, Condit can take a punch, man. That would've been a great 5 rounder. Here's the Jack Slack breakdown.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 20, 2013)

The Groke said:


> DO we need to keep "spoilering" 48 hours after the event?
> 
> I'm going for it!
> 
> ...


 
agree with all of this. Look for the prelims - there were two cracking fights on that.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 20, 2013)

[/quote]

Great striker - looking forward to his UFC debut. Here's Conor against submission specialist Dave Hill (who seems to be as tough as Joe Lauzon and has never been submitted)


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 20, 2013)

so whos GSP got next, i was hoping it would be Condit...

on another note who saw the Tuf last night! 



Spoiler



couldn't believe that ending! Im glad Bubba won but you know, i'd like to have seen it go the third round if Casey had been able to make it back up off the stool!


 
and i gotta say from the short preview of Rhonda coaching i reckon she'd make half of them lads tap


----------



## The Groke (Mar 20, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> so whos GSP got next, i was hoping it would be Condit...


 

Hendricks duh!


----------



## The Groke (Mar 20, 2013)

Structaural said:


> agree with all of this. Look for the prelims - there were two cracking fights on that.


 
Indeed! I caught the last of the prelims (i forget the fighters...) and that was great.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 20, 2013)

I've been avoiding this thread incase people weren't using spoilers and The Groke showed that it was a good decision 

GSP pisses me off. Just boring to watch but at the same time obviously brilliant at what he does. Hope Hendricks knocks him out in his next title fight


----------



## elbows (Mar 21, 2013)

Bruce Leroy tested positive for pot after the Japan show and had his victory overturned. There have been a couple of other failures too but I dont really know the fighters well so have forgotten their names.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 21, 2013)

Diaz often tests positive for that 'performance enhancing drug'...you can get an exemption for TRT but no weed, lol.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 21, 2013)

Exciting qf line ups for TUF. Won't give anything away though

Got a couple of questions for everyone. Who has/had the best fighting name and entrance music in MMA? And what would yours be if you had a pro fight?

I think Wanderlei Silva does well on both with 'The Axe Murderer' and coming out to 'Sandstorm' by Darude.

I'm still trying to think what my name would be but I think my entrance music would be something like this


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 21, 2013)

The Groke said:


> Hendricks duh!


 
yeah i thought by default it would be hendricks obviously, but you know how dana white can be, its been announced yeah? or was it winner of that one was promised gsp?   cant wait to see gsp and hendricks tho!  (would have preferred to see condit)


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 21, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Exciting qf line ups for TUF. Won't give anything away though
> 
> Got a couple of questions for everyone. Who has/had the best fighting name and entrance music in MMA? And what would yours be if you had a pro fight?
> 
> ...




Loving that song choice! sometimes i get to be the music person at the local fights and its always fun seeing what the kids come up with for their 1 minute walk down.

oh man. I love Wanderlei Silva, was so gunning for him in that last match up! and yeah..fancy coming out to Darude! who'd have thought it!



one of my kids came out to this once, was his fav song at the time 



hes the one in the green shorts at 1.06 secs



hes been out with an injury for a while now but he has a ranking on sherdog  and hes f*g fighting fit both physically and mentally! he'll be back soon and hes obsessed and hes in the lucky position of being able to do nothing but follow his dream. doing triathlon atm but will be back with a vengeance soon...as he says, hes hungry.

also got those shorts for the sick mma son today, from Oriol "cookie monster' Gaset. the boy was so surprised , right cheered him up . mind you after the shock wore off he did confess he'd have liked the ones that Oriol wore when he beat the boys training partner , Greg 'the tarantula' Atzori . he wanted to wear them and flaunt them saying "hey recognise these lol


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 21, 2013)

This is that Atzori v Gaset fight and its very much the style my boys fight. lots of bjj. gregs atzoris in the blue shorts



and this is the actual (red) shorts in action lol. i'm a dick hey!


----------



## Structaural (Mar 21, 2013)

Anderson Silva's always get my hairs up. DMX's Aint' no sunshine. 

and Chris Leben's: 


Personally I reckon I'd use Danger by mystik (I'd need all the intimidation I can get)


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 21, 2013)

oh yeah! like your choice! danger 

you know what? i'd rather like this, it would get me bouncing and in the mood..oh yes


----------



## tendril (Mar 21, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Exciting qf line ups for TUF. Won't give anything away though
> 
> Got a couple of questions for everyone. Who has/had the best fighting name and entrance music in MMA? And what would yours be if you had a pro fight?
> 
> ...



I started a thread on this here

Personally I like Roy 'Big Country' Nelson and his walk-on music 'We will rock you' which so far seems very apt for him


----------



## Structaural (Mar 21, 2013)

He used to always use, 'I'm Fat' by  Weird Al


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 22, 2013)

Best walkout music for me was Rampage using Roy Jones jr's "Cant be touched."  That wa
Here the song with a nice mma compilation.


Also Big Nog using the Stones' "gimme Shelter" is up there, always got goosebumps with that.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 22, 2013)

And for those who are interested in Conor Mcgregor, he's makin' his UFC debut in Sweden, on the Gustafsson/Mousasi card.
TWO FUCKING WEEKS!
He's fighting Marcus Brimmage so hopfully it should be a great fight.


----------



## Bakunin (Mar 22, 2013)

Regarding fight music, a personal favourite would be this:


----------



## The Groke (Mar 22, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> yeah i thought by default it would be hendricks obviously, but you know how dana white can be, its been announced yeah? or was it winner of that one was promised gsp?  cant wait to see gsp and hendricks tho!  (would have preferred to see condit)


 
Yeah all but confirmed by Dana, though GSP is injured so we may not see anything until the very end of the year at the earliest!

Condit already had his shot last November! Usual GSP shut out fight, but Condit couldn't really break through more than once.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 22, 2013)

Bellator was the night of glass chins.


----------



## butcher (Mar 23, 2013)

.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 24, 2013)

Anonymous1 said:


> And for those who are interested in Conor Mcgregor, he's makin' his UFC debut in Sweden, on the Gustafsson/Mousasi card.
> TWO FUCKING WEEKS!
> He's fighting Marcus Brimmage so hopfully it should be a great fight.


 
hey yeah! i heard that from an  internet acquaintance who is Irish and living in Berlin, we chat because he has the same illness as sick son and he is very supportive of the boy.  Hes  determined to become a pro MMA fighter in 3 years and is writing a blog. 

http://pro-in-three.blogspot.com.au/


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 24, 2013)

The Groke said:


> Yeah all but confirmed by Dana, though GSP is injured so we may not see anything until the very end of the year at the earliest!
> 
> Condit already had his shot last November! Usual GSP shut out fight, but Condit couldn't really break through more than once.


 

I so hope Hendricks breaks him, i really do.


----------



## The Groke (Mar 25, 2013)

*snigger*


----------



## Structaural (Mar 25, 2013)

This happened at the weekend too:



Spoiler: nasty


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 25, 2013)

Structaural said:


> This happened at the weekend too:


 
Seen that happen a couple of times, nasty indeed. I would like your post but...


----------



## Anonymous1 (Mar 25, 2013)

The doc done by cage warriors/mtv's website on Conor has finally reached t'internet:

http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/...e-of-conor-mcgregor-ahead-of-ufc-on-fuel-tv-9


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 25, 2013)

if anyone's got a few euros spare you could do worse than donate a couple to Bran to support him to achieve his pro in 3 dream  

http://www.gofundme.com/Brannicks-April-May


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 26, 2013)

Moving stuff!

Despite the fact that he has Down Syndrome, 23-year-old Garrett Holeve has used mixed martial arts to find himself and become an MMA fighter.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 29, 2013)

ok, so now that hendricks v gsp is off whos got who for chael v jones?


----------



## The Groke (Mar 29, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> ok, so now that hendricks v gsp is off whos got who for chael v jones?


 
Eh?

Wasn't officially announced yet, so not sure why it is now "off"?

Hendricks will be next up for GSP unless he has broken himself again and needs another lay off, in which case Hendricks will step up for an interim bout.


Chael/Jones?

Jones all the way. I have gone from loathing Sonen to finding him quite entertaining, but he ain't got the chops to take out Jones.


----------



## tendril (Mar 29, 2013)

The Groke said:


> ...unless he has broken himself again and needs another lay off ...


 
Or Diaz broke him (though he lost the fight)


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 29, 2013)

yep, my bad , i read something earlier that said hendricks was out because of that hand injury, can't find it again now though  it was probably the old news


----------



## The Groke (Mar 29, 2013)

tendril said:


> Or Diaz broke him (though he lost the fight)


 
Given the number of times he actually raised his fists, I doubt that!


----------



## Anonymous1 (Apr 1, 2013)

Main event at UFC Sweden looking doubtful.
Gustafson apparently got cut in his last sparring session. 

Hope they get a good replacement to fight mousasi.

http://www.fighters.com/03/31/ufc-on-fuel-tv-9-gustafsson-vs-mousasi-main-event-in-danger


----------



## Anonymous1 (Apr 2, 2013)

Main fight still on, hope it won't be an issue. It was meant to be a nasty cut.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mma-c...lexander-gustafsson-still-141308060--mma.html


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 3, 2013)

Can't wait for the next episode of TUF!



Spoiler



How brutal is Uriah Hall? I worry that he's going to do some serious damage to someone if he keeps on going on like this. Hope he smashes Josh in the final


----------



## tendril (Apr 3, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Can't wait for the next episode of TUF!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler



You're contradicting yourself there elfman. On the one hand you are worried that he will seriously injure someone and on the other hand you hope he smashes Josh in the final . Personally the more violent the better. Scratches the itch in the lizard brain part of me


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 3, 2013)

tendril said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> You're contradicting yourself there elfman. On the one hand you are worried that he will seriously injure someone and on the other hand you hope he smashes Josh in the final . Personally the more violent the better. Scratches the itch in the lizard brain part of me


 


Spoiler



But he deserves it! Just can't stand the guy...


----------



## tendril (Apr 3, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> But he deserves it! Just can't stand the guy...


 


Spoiler



Uriah's gotta get through Bubba first, though that has been proven to be easy with enough motivation. He's got a neck like a giraff lolz


----------



## tendril (Apr 4, 2013)

Spoiler



I know that Uriah wants to tear a strip off Josh, but I can't help hoping that Kelvin beats the fuck outta the jumped up prick him, even if it means a sonnen on sonnen final (can't see Uriah being beaten by Dylan). Disappointed Jimmy Quinlan gave out so early as he had the round in the bag. Wonder if there was any team/ufc tactics there?


----------



## Structaural (Apr 4, 2013)

Spoiler: Jimmy



Jimmy is on another forum, he said he still wasn't recovered from the beating he got from Clint and had to fight 10 days later with still some swelling on his head. The knees finished him off, says he doesn't remember the stupid double punches from that idiot. Hall is a hard hitter man, broke 3 bones in Bubba's eye. They should bring back the guy in the beginning who went 3 rounds with him (and got a broken arm in the process), he's harder than all these others.


 
Here's Connor's UFC Vlog:


----------



## tendril (Apr 4, 2013)

Structaural


Spoiler



Jimmy's last fight cut off half way through (the previous program over-ran and so I didn't get the full recording). Don't suppose you have a link to it? I tried googling but to no avail. I know he won by RNC but only saw about a minute of the actual fight


----------



## Structaural (Apr 4, 2013)

I have it at home, can put it on Dropbox later for you.


----------



## tendril (Apr 4, 2013)

Structaural said:


> I have it at home, can put it on Dropbox later for you.


cool.  Just installing dropbox now


----------



## Structaural (Apr 4, 2013)

Here's Uriah's first fight on TUF, if the memory has faded, the guy did better than anyone else (he was one of the few fighters to know nothing about Hall):



and article about Andy Enz: http://fightland.vice.com/blog/andy-enzs-big-break


----------



## Structaural (Apr 4, 2013)

(go to 48 mins)


----------



## tendril (Apr 4, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> Moving stuff!
> 
> Despite the fact that he has Down Syndrome, 23-year-old Garrett Holeve has used mixed martial arts to find himself and become an MMA fighter.



Absolutely inspirational. Thanks for sharing icey


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 4, 2013)

This is what I'll be watching this saturday! can't wait, I love watching the female fighters, always great technique and fast moving. And only costs about 5 pounds to stream live...It starts at 6pm in Kansas on Friday, so thats 8am here in Qld saturday, which would be about 6pm Saturday pm for you in the UK.

If you haven't watched Invicta before, well you should 











ps 



Spoiler



I hope Uriah Hall wins tuf tbh


----------



## Structaural (Apr 4, 2013)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rj3cy8cfo1e1zge/not tuff 11.mp4


----------



## tendril (Apr 4, 2013)

Structaural said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rj3cy8cfo1e1zge/not tuff 11.mp4


ta.Put it pon da download in the morning


----------



## Structaural (Apr 5, 2013)

You got it? I'll take that down if you have


----------



## Structaural (Apr 5, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> This is what I'll be watching this saturday! can't wait, I love watching the female fighters, always great technique and fast moving. And only costs about 5 pounds to stream live...It starts at 6pm in Kansas on Friday, so thats 8am here in Qld saturday, which would be about 6pm Saturday pm for you in the UK.
> 
> If you haven't watched Invicta before, well you should


 
Who's the poor girl up against Cyborg? I think I'll be watching. My wife will only watch women's MMA because every time she watches UFC with me, someone gets the worst cut ever seen and then she's out the room. It was Lauzon's last fight last time.


----------



## tendril (Apr 5, 2013)

Structaural said:


> You got it? I'll take that down if you have


Am at work now, will check when i get home. You may need to baby me through the process by pm


----------



## tendril (Apr 5, 2013)

pon da download now, ta


----------



## tendril (Apr 5, 2013)

Structaural said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rj3cy8cfo1e1zge/not tuff 11.mp4


Structaural: I was after the one where quinlan beats the boxer.... that one is where quinlan loses to bubba. Do you have the quinlan v Hester vid?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 5, 2013)

the weigh ins

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/30900157

and Structaural Cyborg is v Fiona Muxlow


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 6, 2013)

seriously people! if you can watch this....its been fucking awesome so far and its only on the second fight! so good


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 6, 2013)

Spoiler



first fight saw alex chambere win in 35 secs by rear naked choke then second fight, rose namajunas won in 12 secs with a flying arm bar!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 6, 2013)

Honestly! best fights EVER!



Spoiler



bec rowdy hyatt. beat the shit out of cive , got full mount and ground and pound then submitted her by arm bar, all in round 1.Go Bec!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 6, 2013)

i dont know if i'll ever bother watching UFC again!



Spoiler



leslie smith v sarah kaufman! what a fight!!!!!!!! split decision by 1 point. i wanted smith to win, next time eh?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 6, 2013)

Spoiler



michelle waterson just tapped out jessica penn to win the title!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 6, 2013)

Spoiler



and cyborg! omg! poor muxlow, ref had to stop it in the first round


----------



## tendril (Apr 6, 2013)

Hahahahahaha...... some bright wag keeps editing the wiki page of Uriah Hall (exhibition match results section which is TUF17). Last night it was a loss (KO by superman punch). That was removed. Now it's Loss by triangle choke.


----------



## tendril (Apr 6, 2013)

Chael Sonnen at his obnoxious best


----------



## Structaural (Apr 6, 2013)

tendril said:


> Structaural: I was after the one where quinlan beats the boxer.... that one is where quinlan loses to bubba. Do you have the quinlan v Hester vid?


 
Do you know which episode it was? I think I've still got most of them.

That armbar was crazy!



Spoiler: gif


----------



## tendril (Apr 6, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Do you know which episode it was? I think I've still got most of them.
> 
> That armbar was crazy!
> 
> ...


 
Episode 7


----------



## Structaural (Apr 6, 2013)

UFC in Sweden has just started. Just finished all the Invicta fights (outstanding). What a good day!


----------



## elbows (Apr 6, 2013)

Sounds like BT may have picked up the UFC rights from August onwards, not Sky as previously rumoured. Still waiting for confirmation though.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 7, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Do you know which episode it was? I think I've still got most of them.
> 
> That armbar was crazy!
> 
> ...


 
how do you cut n paste/ copy/save gifs?


----------



## tendril (Apr 8, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> how do you cut n paste/ copy/save gifs?


to save: right click and 'save picture as' or equivalent. This will download it to your computer. To copy, right click and 'copy image location' or equivalent which you can then add into any post on here using the 'insert/edit image' button in the editor


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> michelle waterson just tapped out jessica penn to win the title!


 


Spoiler: open



I think that's probably the best MMA grappling match I've ever seen, that hitchhiker arm bar escape was unreal.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> and cyborg! omg! poor muxlow, ref had to stop it in the first round


 
That was hard to watch. She's a beast.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 10, 2013)

Last episode of TUF


Spoiler



Uriah v Kelvin final.

Kelvin has been underdog in every fight and performed brilliantly. He dominated Josh. Only 21 too.

Uriah showed that he has more than just devastating knock outs and picked Dylan apart. His face was a mess after and only went 1 and 1/2 rounds.

Uriah is favourite to win, but you never know. Looking forward to the final.

Best season of TUF I've seen I think. Probably just tops USA v UK one form what I've seen anyway.


----------



## tendril (Apr 10, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Last episode of TUF
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I'm waiting until I get home to watch it. Get thee behind me, Satan, with thou spoilers


----------



## Structaural (Apr 11, 2013)

What's annoying, if you get email notifications it doesn't hide the spoiler, it just shows the tag and the post. Nearly caught me out that one.



Spoiler: TUF



That was great. Shame we won't get to see Josh tooled by Uriah, but he wasn't worthy anyway  Felt a bit sorry for Dylan as he'd had a war with Luke only 5 days before. His head wasn't in it. Not that it would have made much difference to be fair. Uriah hits damn hard. He had a bad right arm for that fight too (I thought I saw it shaking when he was going for that kimura). Kelvin was impressive, he surprised me, I think I jumped out of my chair. That's two wins by RNC now. Uriah best watch out for the takedown. Mind you his ground game isn't that bad.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 11, 2013)

tendril said:


> Episode 7


 
ope, sorry Tendril, I'll sort this out.
Just lost my job, head's not with it.


----------



## tendril (Apr 11, 2013)

Structaural said:


> ope, sorry Tendril, I'll sort this out.
> Just lost my job, head's not with it.


Bad luck dude. Hope you get another one quickly. What trade are you in?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 11, 2013)

boy 2 has had kelvin as the winner from the very start we shall see eh? both finalists will have it made either way. looking forwards to sunday heaps 



Spoiler



from an entirely girley pov i want uriah to win because he is so very beautiful and has eyes that remind me of bambi 


 
meanwhile on the Cesar Gracie team...http://www.cagepotato.com/let-the-great-fallout-begin-nate-diaz-leaves-team-cesar-gracie-management/


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 11, 2013)

this is interesting and what Diarmuid,  is up to atm.


However, one place where the sport is flourishing is Berlin and of course Europe’s *creative capital* is the perfect place for the cross pollination of ideas and disciplines. The German city is has a vibrant art scene and is a magnet for*dancers*, *circus* and *acrobatic* *performers*, and easily rivals LA for its cutting-edge *bodywork* scene.
It now also is home to several MMA clubs most notably *IMAG* and *Golden Glory* and it is the is this combination of*Mixed Martial Arts, post-modern dance and bodywork *that attracts 34-year-old Irishman Diarmuid Brannick to Berlin. Dubliner Brannick spent 13 years unable to walk without the aid of crutches after being diagnosed with a *rare form of arthritis *at the age of 19.

http://www.swide.com/sport-man/fitn...s-meets-post-modern-dance-in-berlin/2013/1/15

http://pro-in-three.blogspot.de/p/blog-page.html


----------



## Structaural (Apr 12, 2013)

Sorry on phone - Pat Barry does Rose's flying arm bar:


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 13, 2013)

hahahahaha!  thanks for that Structaural 

looking forward to the tuf finals, starts in an hour here!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 13, 2013)

Also looking forwards to this next Saturday, got a ring side table. rel (aka narelle) is world woman's champion muay thai and hayden mma madman is my best friends ex, he walked out on her and their kids (one was only 1 week old) the day after winning his last fight. And it was a 'cheat at that' touched gloves, other guy turned to walk back to the corner etc..and hayden kicked him in the head. 1 second TKO  so think we may be yelling for his opponent. I also get to see  some fighters from Mackay (north qld) who are old friends and who are fighting on the night.


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 13, 2013)

What goes up...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 14, 2013)

Ow Bakunin!



Spoiler



Tuf fights and down goes Kevin Casey again! didn't really expect that but too muscle bound etc...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 14, 2013)

Cat Zingano v Meisha Tate soon, winner to go up against Rhonda Rousey


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 14, 2013)

*punches air*



Spoiler



Bubba just tapped out Gilbert Smith WooT!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 14, 2013)

and Rouseys opponent will be 



Spoiler



Cat Zingano TKO in round 2. great technical, fast and furious  fight!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 14, 2013)

Ok! here we gooo..uriah v kelvin!



Spoiler



Fuck! split decision. Kelvin won! youngest ever winner  i'm dissapointed because i wanted uriah but my son, whos sitting here watching with me, had kelvin from the very first show! and this is why my sons going to uni to be a journalist. he _knows _things


----------



## tendril (Apr 15, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> and Rouseys opponent will be
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fight of the night for me


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 17, 2013)

The definition of 'scary':

This gentleman:



And, for the historically-inclined, MMA Roman-style:


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 21, 2013)

Saw some really good fights last night but gotta say the best was saved for last.

Thailand V Australia as Ploysuay Sakrungruang  versus Narelle Leahey.

This was a muay thai fight (it was a mixed card) the Thai woman has been Thai champion  for the past year and Narelle just took her apart from round one through to round 5! gotta say that the Thai could take a hit! she didn't throw any though, too busy keeping her guard up and slipping what Rel was throwing at her.

Narelle is a local woman, we've all trained with her over the years and to say the crowd went wild is an understatement. She had retired last year (she had world title muay thai belt) but came back a few weeks ago to take on Australia's ranked number 2 female boxer, she lost by a point.

http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/narelles-set-to-punch-on/1771316/

But last night! omg! she was a machine, i dont think she even broke a sweat tbf. i'm really not sure how the Thai had been at the top of the thai league for so long. Anyway it was a great night.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 21, 2013)

and what about today's ufc eh! a few surprises there! first time



Spoiler



Nate Diaz has thrown in the towel!


----------



## tendril (Apr 24, 2013)

Spoiler: Ouch! You have been warned


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 25, 2013)

Just seen this video. More for the people who like the training aspect of MMA but that outdoor gym is fucking amazing! We have lots of outdoor exercise areas around here but nothing like that. I really want to buy a bit of land and make one of them now...


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 26, 2013)

Visitors to Thailand, having a few beers too many and accepting the all-comers challenge to try the art of Muay Boran is NOT a good idea.

Mr Foot, meet Mr. Face...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 28, 2013)

well that was a great card today! 



Spoiler



Jon Jones wrestled Chael Sonnen into a TKO, 30 secs before the end of the first round and then as Joe Rogan was interviewing him post fight Joe looked down and saw this, jones hadn't even noticed


----------



## The Groke (Apr 28, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> well that was a great card today!
> 
> [/spoiler]


 
I haven't watched the under-card yet, but other than one result 



Spoiler



Nelson is my man - I love that guy


 
It was a pretty dull event frankly.



Spoiler



Much as Sonnen has grown on me, I can't believe they ever got this match-up through frankly - Jones was always going to absolutely cream him, it was bewildering he even got the opportunity.


 
Obviously I am glad 



Spoiler



Bisping won, given that I am a pom, but I would have liked to see him finish - Belcher was underwhelming.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 28, 2013)

Spoiler



bisping is awesome eh! reminds me of john wayne parr, the way he fights. Hes got muay thai cardio and he won on hits alone, i think he got 94 in that fight, even though it was stopped he won, belcher was gassed by the end of round one! My mate was lucky enough to win a 2 week training camp in thailand with bisping last year!  and yeah nelson! he so doesn't look the part, looks like some red neck beer swiller etc.. but he is great! kongo looked the ultimate machine but roy sure showed him


----------



## The Groke (Apr 28, 2013)

Fight of the night for me was Siler V Holobaugh - that was great.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 28, 2013)

POW!



Spoiler










 



Spoiler



mc mann made short work of the german fighter, i knew she would  i think my biggest disappointment was yancy medeiros dislocated thumb. tbh i was looking forward to watching khabilov doing the whole multi simplex thing again but i thought that the fight was getting really interesting style wise and what with yancy being back from a long break cos of injury and having moved to the diaz training camp etc...i think i'll be watching for yancy again.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 29, 2013)

Spoiler



I'm happy as 3 of my favourite fighters won - Bisping, Nelson and Jones. Been watching Jones fights all week and that guy is just amazing. He can't just go for a win, he has to do it in style. Would love to see him against Silva in a catch weight fight. Will have to wait for that toe to heal first though... ouch!


----------



## The Groke (Apr 29, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I'm happy as 3 of my favourite fighters won - Bisping, Nelson and Jones. Been watching Jones fights all week and that guy is just amazing. He can't just go for a win, he has to do it in style. Would love to see him against Silva in a catch weight fight. Will have to wait for that toe to heal first though... ouch!


 


Spoiler



Dana tweeted that Silva had rung him and asked for a fight immediately after the event...and that he would work on it.

I can't see Silva begging for Bisping, so chances are...


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 29, 2013)

Don't open the spoiler if you're squemish!


Spoiler


----------



## tendril (Apr 29, 2013)

Shame about all the accidents in this one. My personal opinion with the eye poke issue is that the judging should be changed thus:

A) if you accidentally poke your opponent in the eye and he/she can continue you lose a point

B) If you accidentally poke your opponent in the eye and they cannot continue you forfeit the fight.

This would act as self regulation as no-one is gonna wanna risk losing a point or a full forfeit. There were plenty of warnings to the fighters on saturday night, many of them seemed to measure their distance with open hands. Stop doing this. This is how eye pokes happen.

If you are a professional fighter then your body is your weapons. It is, in my opinion, entirely your responsibility how your weapons are used, even if they are used accidentally.




Spoiler: Gotta love him, you just gotta!



And great result from big Roy once again


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 1, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TshRIJ-DpKw


----------



## tendril (May 1, 2013)

tendril said:


> Shame about all the accidents in this one. My personal opinion with the eye poke issue is that the judging should be changed thus:
> 
> A) if you accidentally poke your opponent in the eye and he/she can continue you lose a point
> 
> ...


 
I was talking about this with a guy at work who grapples and he said that changing the rules wouldn't really help because if a guy/gal thought they were losing they'd just call foul on it. It'd have to be backed up with instant replay (like in rugby)


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 1, 2013)

**



*Director/producer Belinda Dunne.*



> Below is what will be the first teaser for Princesses of pain -the movie. It's sole purpose is to overcome some of the misconceptions about female fighters and hopefully create a the beginnings of interest in our movie. Please help me out by pressing LIKE and SHARING this on every website and Facebook page you can think of. Building numbers will help us gain distribution.


----------



## tendril (May 1, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> *Director/producer Belinda Dunne.*


site blocked at work but I'll take a gander when i get home icey.

btw, wasn't Sara McMann a trooper. Got the job done in style. Didn't even look like she broke a sweat. I'm a bit ignorant on women's mma weight classes. is she in the same class as Rousey? if so then that's a fight to watch


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 1, 2013)

*iif.*
Hey I love woman's fighting, I have been following it for years. I watched your trailer for Princesses of Pain but I just didn't get the sexual aspect of the Woman wrapped in well..wraps? You say the purpose of your film is to change the misconceptions people have of Woman's fighting sports but unless the sexual/titillating angle is some sort of angle that you are then going to disprove it sure does send out the wrong message? Just at a time when Woman in the sport are starting to get recognition too.
Sorry and I'm sure that I've misconstrued this but I would like it explained to me, thanks.

*Director/producer Belinda Dunne*
Hey iif its sport versus marketing. To have a show that gets sponsorship and views you need to cater to what the networks want to see and sponsors want to sponsor. This movie is about my journey and that is me in the hand wraps. I am a model and promoter or at least I was. Not everyone will agree with my direction and that is okay. The feedback I have had today has been overwhelmingly good and that is a great result. Female fighters are both athletic and also feminine and showing both sides is what I am doing. You only need to see how successful the ESPN shoot with Ronda Rousey was to see what success showing the model side of fighters can be.

*iif*
I do understand the difficulties re catering to sponsors and the networks, but to be honest, personally, I would rather not see this film made at all if this is what you need to do to make it and sell it. For me it undermines all that Woman have been literally fighting for over the years. To be recognised as sports woman, equal to sports men. Not for their model looks. I feel that Woman's fighting, with the input of Invicta, has really reached new levels this last year and I am concerned that your film will undermine this

*Director/producer Belinda Dunne*
I used to feel the same way iif ill I spent 13 years and 500 thousand dollars of my own money promoting women fighters and got more attention in one photo shoot modeling than I ever did for the fighters. Its the way of the world hun I can either keep doing pure sports and carry on being ignored or I can follow the UFC and use marketing for all its worth and gain attention which will allow me to continue growing the league I have almost gone bankrupt to build. You probably don't know my history but if you did you might understand. Im happy to making this movie because I know the opportunities it will create for the fighters I promote.

*iif*
I've read your page's and I've seen what you've been doing and its very impressive. It really is & I recognise and admire the difference that you've made to NZ Woman's MMA and the Woman that you represent & promote. I know that I'm being an idealist/purist and that never made anyone any money! I'm saddened by the fact that Woman have to 'sell out' the future of our daughters & ignore the sacrifices of our mothers for rightful recognition & cash. Not saddened by the individual women who chose this path but more by the Culture that causes the need for this path by continuing with its patriarchy. I have no answers re getting female fighters this opportunity, although I do think that the fights speak for themselves, being to my eye, so much faster and technical and exciting than most UFC main events these days. So yes, I suppose that if you feel that women, once again, have to use their sexuality to get their due then so be it. Thanks for taking the time to explain Belinda. Its bound to come up in local conversation soon, it already did on my local club wall when they posted a link to the video, so now I can give a fair account of where you have been and where you are going with this.

*Director/producer Belinda Dunne*
Thanks iif I don't disagree with what you say so I am happy to answer because I felt the same for a very long time till my best efforts got me nowhere. Having said that this is a movie about my life and I am the only one half naked and I was a model so it was part of what I did and who I am. This teaser is only to interest people and make them wonder about the movie it isn't meant to represent all women in fight only me and my story and a glimpse at the wonderful women I represent.

*iif *
I get that and I'd say by the reactions that I've seen to the teaser, that it's doing its job, even though I'm not certain of the motivation of many of the 'liker's'. I do think that perhaps you could change the blurb that goes with it though. Something similar to what you've said above ^^ because that's quite different to what the teaser says


*Director/producer Belinda Dunne*
One thing I would like to point out is that while this is my story its based on fact and some of the women here in NZ like being in these kind of photo shoots they see it as an opportunity to look pretty and show off that they are women. It may not be the way it is in America but here there are some fighters who like this. As I said I am an ex model so I may take it a step further but there are plenty of the POP fighters who choose to look sexy at the shoots we do . So I hear what you are saying but while you are allowed to have a purest view the fighters here are allowed to be however they like also. Some feel as you do but many don't and they will be represented in my movie as will those who share your views.

*iif*
I'm actually in Queensland As I said, I'm not having a pop at the women, Just more saddened by the fact that, even though its the 21C, there is still a drive/need to be recognised for accidents of birth, like beauty.


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 1, 2013)

tendril said:


> site blocked at work but I'll take a gander when i get home icey.
> 
> btw, wasn't Sara McMann a trooper. Got the job done in style. Didn't even look like she broke a sweat. I'm a bit ignorant on women's mma weight classes. is she in the same class as Rousey? if so then that's a fight to watch


 
Tbf the un-staged fights on that film (so far) are ok but the woman making it's a bit of a greedy bitch. imo. see our correspondence above 

Yep rousey and McMann  are in the same weight class. If you want to watch some good female fights then have a look at http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyWaWINUahjgHCOVYxuhYqQ and check out Joanne Calderwood from Scotland, I think she'll be making a UFC debut soon.


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 1, 2013)

This is one of my favourite female fighters, Leslie Smith.


----------



## Bakunin (May 2, 2013)

Bonkers KO of a Muay Thai fighter by a Taekwondo master:


----------



## tendril (May 2, 2013)

Bakunin said:


> Bonkers KO of a Muay Thai fighter by a Taekwondo master:



It's the first woman in the audience's face after the KO that makes it. She doesn't know whether to clap of cry


----------



## tendril (May 3, 2013)

Roy Nelson on eye pokes (amongst other things)




			
				Big Country said:
			
		

> You know what? I haven't poked anybody in the eye. If there's a lot of eye pokes, it's probably in the lighter divisions. That might be because they don't have the hand power to actually squeeze the glove [laughs]. Maybe they should go hit the weights a little bit so they can squeeze their hands into a fist with the gloves on.


----------



## tendril (May 9, 2013)

I it's a way off but does anyone think that Weidman has a chance against Silva?

I know stats are meaningless in the real world but Weidman seems to have better grappling and better percentage of strikes avoided:

Silva's Stats:



Weidman's Stats:


----------



## The Groke (May 10, 2013)

tendril said:


> I it's a way off but does anyone think that Weidman has a chance against Silva?


 
I think he would beat Sonnen who is pretty much the only person to have come close to doing so in last 9 years or so!

That said even If he has the talent, I am not sure he has the experience...

I think my money is still on - yawn - Silva.


----------



## tendril (May 10, 2013)

The Groke said:


> I think he would beat Sonnen who is pretty much the only person to have come close to doing so in last 9 years or so!
> 
> That said even If he has the talent, I am not sure he has the experience...
> 
> I think my money is still on - yawn - Silva.


 

sonnen only nearly beat silva the first time because silva was injured (so it is alleged) so not sure if that argument holds any water, and you are right, silva has the experience. However, no king lasts forever. But I would agree with you if I had to put money on it..... silva. Let's hope it is at least an entertaining fight and that silva doesn't cock it up by showboating and fucking around as he has done in the past.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (May 10, 2013)

tendril said:


> sonnen only nearly beat silva the first time because silva was injured (so it is alleged) so not sure if that argument holds any water, and you are right, silva has the experience. However, no king lasts forever. But I would agree with you if I had to put money on it..... silva. Let's hope it is at least an entertaining fight and that silva doesn't cock it up by showboating and fucking around as he has done in the past.


 
And he was roided up wasn't he? Got banned after the fight from what I recall...


----------



## tendril (May 14, 2013)

Quite surprised to see this from Chan Sung Jung, but gotta say I sort of agree with him


----------



## Bakunin (May 15, 2013)

Scary, scary Shaolin iron bollocks:


----------



## tendril (May 15, 2013)

Bakunin said:


> Scary, scary Shaolin iron bollocks:



could be a castrato


----------



## Bakunin (May 20, 2013)

NASTY knockouts, anyone..?


----------



## tendril (Jun 1, 2013)

Fucking Fucking Fuckin Fuck!!!!!!!

UFC has done a deal with BT. We're with Sky and we have ESPN on all our boxes for the one price. Sky are terminating their contract with ESPN from 31st July. We can get BT Sports (inc ESPN) through Sky but have to pay a separate subscription for each box we want it on. And there is a £15 'set up' fee. Fucking thieving rapscallions!


----------



## tendril (Jun 15, 2013)

So Big Country has put his big foot in it again with his 'Uncle Tom Move' comment about Daniel Cormier in his pre-fight interview for 161 . Sigh. I was just getting to like him too, especially as he gets right up Dana's nose.

Anyways, any predictions for tonight? Hendo or Evans? Nelson or Miocic? Hope our girl Sexton brings the noise  Barry and Jordan looks like a good slugfest. Wonder if Maguire will up his game enough to get back into the televised events after his last two rather poor performances


----------



## The Groke (Jun 15, 2013)

Silly Roy.



I got Hendo and Nelson by KO...

Though I think not enough to put money down!

Evans can wrestle his way to a decision if he is on form and Miocic can be pretty scary.


----------



## tendril (Jun 15, 2013)

The Groke said:


> Silly Roy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think Roy is gonna KO Stipe, he's too smart to stand in front of him. Perhaps we will get to see some more of his fables jujitsu and grappling. Perhaps a cricifix as he did to Cro Cop. That's some belly to carry on you.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 15, 2013)

tendril said:


> I don't think Roy is gonna KO Stipe, he's too smart to stand in front of him. Perhaps we will get to see some more of his fables jujitsu and grappling. Perhaps a cricifix as he did to Cro Cop. That's some belly to carry on you.


 
Aye - should be fun at any rate.

Check out the weigh-in vid on the UFC site - Barry and Jordan cracking up during the staredown.

Pat Barry is great.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 15, 2013)

I'd actually like to see nelsons KO winning streak end tbf. and hes only had short notice too!


----------



## tendril (Jun 15, 2013)

The Groke said:


> Aye - should be fun at any rate.
> 
> Check out the weigh-in vid on the UFC site - Barry and Jordan cracking up during the staredown.
> 
> Pat Barry is great.


Yeah, watched it live on youtube last night. Like a couple of schoolboys they were. Nice not to see any bad behaviour at the weigh ins, kept it nice and professional


----------



## tendril (Jun 15, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> I'd actually like to see nelsons KO winning streak end tbf.


I think we'd all like to see another move from him


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 15, 2013)

yeah, its boring now!


----------



## tendril (Jun 15, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> yeah, its boring now!


Although a KO is good, he's (by his own admission) a lazy fighter and has stopped going for the subs. This could be the test that is needed to see if he is belt material.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 15, 2013)

tendril said:


> Although a KO is good, he's (by his own admission) a lazy fighter and has stopped going for the subs. This could be the test that is needed to see if he is belt material.


 

I think - like Hunt - if he had committed 100% a few years back, lost the weight and put his all in, he could have been championship material...not now I fear.

Still, I like that he does as well as he does and I like that a fatty can still compete.

...plus the annoying Dana bit is fun.


----------



## tendril (Jun 16, 2013)

tendril said:


> Although a KO is good, he's (by his own admission) a lazy fighter and has stopped going for the subs. This could be the test that is needed to see if he is belt material.


 




Spoiler: 161 results. You have been warned



Well that's the question answered... gasses even in rnd 1 (though he did take it on 2 weeks notice). Poor and stumbly performance and was outclassed by a sharp Miocic who now looks like a contender. Roy now looks like he's destined for WWE 

Shame our girl Rosi lost but she was a gamer and had her moments. I'm sure we won't see the last of her.

Jordan... what a difference since his last fight with Kongo. Barry didn't know what hit him.

Maguire lost by decision according to the official site but no stats so don't know what happened. maybe a no-show?

Good job by Evans despite a shaky start. Hendo should retire I reckon. At 42 he's not gonna get better, but you never know, Randy was still competing at an older age.


----------



## Mr Average (Jul 3, 2013)

So...this weekend. Silva versus Weidman. I got Weidman by submission, round-1.


----------



## tendril (Jul 3, 2013)

Mr Average said:


> So...this weekend. Silva versus Weidman. I got Weidman by submission, round-1.


I'd like to think that, though if Weidman wins I don't reckon it'll be a stoppage. I do think, though, that it will be Silva again *yawn*. I am prepared to go nuts if Weidman wins and I reckon it'll shake up the ranks in a big way, just hope Silva doesn't get an automatic rematch.


----------



## Mr Average (Jul 3, 2013)

I think Silva is contractually entitled to an immediate rematch in the event he loses to Weidman. Agreed though, Weidman winning would shake things up for sure.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 4, 2013)

Mr Average said:


> I think Silva is contractually entitled to an immediate rematch in the event he loses to Weidman. Agreed though, Weidman winning would shake things up for sure.


 

DW's said no fighter has or will get an auto-rematch clause, but Weidman told him he's going to upset all the super-fight plans. He also told him
he will give Anderson the rematch at MSG. Since MMA won't be legalised in NY state for atleast a year that's not going to happen.

If weidman wins, and decisively there is no justification for a rematch. Best in MMA history or not.


On Another note, Cage Warriors has now moved to premier sports or whateva the fuck it's called 
Tenner a month when cage warriors isn't even on monthly is a bit steep.

 Lookin' forward to Invicta next week, Joanne Calderwood is on fire!
She's had yet another opponent change for this event, best of luck to her.



I'd love to see Weidman get it done but he's fighting the BEST, with more title defences than Chris has had professional fights.
 Roll on Saturday!


----------



## Mr Average (Jul 4, 2013)

Anonymous1 said:


> DW's said no fighter has or will get an auto-rematch clause


 
UFC NewsMMA NewsUFC 162 CoverageUFC 162: Silva vs. WeidmanAnderson Silva will get an immediate rematch if he loses to Chris Weidman at UFC 162http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/7/1...silva-immediate-rematch-chris-weidman-ufc-162


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 4, 2013)

Mr Average said:


> UFC NewsMMA NewsUFC 162 CoverageUFC 162: Silva vs. WeidmanAnderson Silva will get an immediate rematch if he loses to Chris Weidman at UFC 162


 

 I stand corrected, atleast it was recent enough for me to miss.

It was in one of the post-fight scrum vids when questioned about Weidman saying he would give the auto-rematch.
He went on about wee frankie being involved in all his rematches only due to how close his fights were and that was no fighter is or would be
contracted to a re-match.


I think this is Zuffa brass covering their arses incase Anderson doesn't win and the superfights have to be shelved.


----------



## Mr Average (Jul 4, 2013)

Anonymous1 said:


> I think this is Zuffa brass covering their arses incase Anderson doesn't win and the superfights have to be shelved.


I think you're right.

Part of me can really see Weidman taking him down, and subbing him. Another part of me sees Anderson playing with Weidman for a bit, and then executing him when he decides the time is right. Either way, can't wait!


----------



## The Groke (Jul 4, 2013)

Mr Average said:


> I think you're right.
> 
> Part of me can really see Weidman taking him down, and subbing him. Another part of me sees Anderson playing with Weidman for a bit, and then executing him when he decides the time is right. Either way, can't wait!


 

I don't quite get the hype-train for Weidman. Of course he is damn good - he wouldn't be in the octagon if he wasn't - but he has nothing in his track record to suggest he can beat a top-tier, title-holding, almost legendary fighter like Silva IMHO.

Yes, a skilled wrestler (Sonnen) came closest to beating him, but look at how he learned from that, completely neutralized Sonnen's wrestling in the rematch and destroyed him with relative ease.

I hope he _does_ win - the division needs shaking up, but I wouldn't be putting any money on it that is for sure.


----------



## Mr Average (Jul 5, 2013)

The Groke said:


> I don't quite get the hype-train for Weidman. Of course he is damn good - he wouldn't be in the octagon if he wasn't - but he has nothing in his track record to suggest he can beat a top-tier, title-holding, almost legendary fighter like Silva IMHO.


 
The hype appears to be based on his wrestling, in part, but also on his sublime grappling skills. He literally is a prodigy...with just three months of ju-jitsu training, Weidman won his first Grappler's Quest tournament, taking the weight class *and* the absolute division with 13 straight submissions. He also qualified for and competed at the 2009 ADCC tournament with only 1 year training when he lost to elite practitioner Andre Galvao.


----------



## The Groke (Jul 5, 2013)

Well it will be interesting to see what happens! I certainly thing experience will be a major factor - something Silva has a bucketload of.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 6, 2013)

Cage Warriors 56 fb prelims on in under an hour.

Main card can be watched by entering url: cagewarriorsDOTmmajunkieDOTcom into here.


----------



## The Groke (Jul 7, 2013)

If you don't want to see the result, then don't open the spoiler!



Spoiler



Well there you have it then!

Silva fully deserved that - acting like a twat again...

Still - now Weidman has outed himself as another tedious godbotherer, I am not sure how enthusiastic I can get for his reign. I know It shouldn't bother me, but giving your imaginary omnipotent friend the credit for smashing some guy in the face just rubs me sideways.


----------



## tendril (Jul 7, 2013)

The Groke said:


> If you don't want to see the result, then don't open the spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I agree on both counts but I also feel that maybe Siva had had enough and was content to lose to Weidman where he wasn't content to lose to other contenders.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 12, 2013)

I love Silva but he deserved to lose. Just listening to him speak after and the way he did perform, it's like he doesn't care too much anyway. I mean he's on a shitload of money with all the sponsors he has and must have a fair bit in the bank to retire on then just keep on working as some sort of coach and the odd exhibition bout.


----------



## tendril (Jul 12, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> I love Silva but he deserved to lose. Just listening to him speak after and the way he did perform, it's like he doesn't care too much anyway. I mean he's on a shitload of money with all the sponsors he has and must have a fair bit in the bank to retire on then just keep on working as some sort of coach and the odd exhibition bout.


He said he has 10 fights left on his contact. That is quite a few for someone who is 38. Wonder if the UFC will hold him to them?


----------



## heinous seamus (Jul 17, 2013)

Had my first bjj training session tonight. My throat is killing me from all the choking!


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 18, 2013)

heinous seamus said:


> Had my first bjj training session tonight. My throat is killing me from all the choking!


 
its the most fun ya can have with yer clothes on! were ya doin gi or nogi?


----------



## heinous seamus (Jul 18, 2013)

Gi. They do a no-gi class as well though.

The first part of the training involved us trying to get a grip of each other's gi to get a throw/takedown - I was pretty good at that bit due to my awesome powers of leverage


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 18, 2013)

heinous seamus said:


> Gi. They do a no-gi class as well though.
> 
> The first part of the training involved us trying to get a grip of each other's gi to get a throw/takedown - I was pretty good at that bit due to my awesome powers of leverage


 
I trained nogi for a fair bit, not to any serious level, was shocked at what a killer it is on the fingers when I moved over to gi, really want to get back into it, but its so pricey everywhere.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 18, 2013)

Can I just mention, Fedor's book is really really good. No bullshit, explains the moves he used in real fights like that evil trap & hook thing.


----------



## heinous seamus (Jul 19, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> I trained nogi for a fair bit, not to any serious level, was shocked at what a killer it is on the fingers when I moved over to gi, really want to get back into it, but its so pricey everywhere.


 
Where are you based?

The gym I'm going to just now costs £12 a week for unlimited training. They have 4 BJJ classes a week including one no-gi class. Going to a wrestling class tonight. It will be welcome to seamus town


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 19, 2013)

heinous seamus said:


> Where are you based?
> 
> The gym I'm going to just now costs £12 a week for unlimited training. They have 4 BJJ classes a week including one no-gi class. Going to a wrestling class tonight. It will be welcome to seamus town


Wow that is really good value, In NW ldn. where bouts is it?


----------



## heinous seamus (Jul 19, 2013)

Thought you might be London-based! I'm in Edinburgh. How much does it generally cost down there then?


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 19, 2013)

heinous seamus said:


> Thought you might be London-based! I'm in Edinburgh. How much does it generally cost down there then?


 
Would be very difficult to find something less than £70 - 80 a month, which when ya compare to boxing or judo which you can do for about 3/4 quid a lesson is quite a leap.


----------



## The Boy (Jul 23, 2013)

heinous seamus said:


> Where are you based?
> 
> The gym I'm going to just now costs £12 a week for unlimited training. They have 4 BJJ classes a week including one no-gi class. Going to a wrestling class tonight. It will be welcome to seamus town


 
Do you mind me asking where you go?


----------



## heinous seamus (Jul 23, 2013)

Alba Dornadair on Duddingston Road West. Quite a friendly bunch.

Oh, and I got my arse handed to me at wrestling


----------



## tendril (Aug 21, 2013)

Spoiler: Rua vs Sonnen



Well who'd have thought it, Sonnen in the first round by submission 







Overeem...... so the truth is he can't fight when not on drugs lolz!

Overall a good card but Mr Bambi eyes Hall just can't seem to bring the heat, shame, with all that talent. And on that note, when are we gonna get to see Kelvin Gastelum dusted off ond brought out to play?


----------



## captain acab (Aug 29, 2013)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Can I just mention, Fedor's book is really really good. No bullshit, explains the moves he used in real fights like that evil trap & hook thing.


george foreman used to do that later in his career, too.
 7:10 or so


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 29, 2013)

Anyone been watching the Bellator 'Fight Master' series (basically a rip off of The Ultimate Fighter). It's not too bad and has 2 fights every episode. They have 4 coaches with the fighters picking the coaches and the coaches are all coaches (except one)


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 31, 2013)

Condit vs Kampann


Spoiler



Condit looked brilliant...


----------



## tendril (Aug 31, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Condit vs Kampann
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


 


Spoiler: so did



Gastelum. He's a beast at 170


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Sep 14, 2013)

Anyone watching TUF?

Won't do any spoilers but the 1st fight in the house is pretty good. Experienced veteran v young talent and it's pretty non-stop.

Also Rousey is a total dick. Dunno if I can cope with her moaning and crying and bitchiness much longer. Although the preview for next week showed Tate telling Rousey that she 'doesn't know how to punch' which made me lol. Can't wait for the 1 trick pony to get knocked out by someone.


----------



## elbows (Sep 14, 2013)

I've only watched the first episode so far but I have been reading for weeks that Rousey comes across very poorly. I doubt it really matters since people being easy to loathe helps build up fights.


----------



## tendril (Sep 17, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Anyone watching TUF?
> 
> Won't do any spoilers but the 1st fight in the house is pretty good. Experienced veteran v young talent and it's pretty non-stop.
> 
> Also Rousey is a total dick. Dunno if I can cope with her moaning and crying and bitchiness much longer. Although the preview for next week showed Tate telling Rousey that she 'doesn't know how to punch' which made me lol. Can't wait for the 1 trick pony to get knocked out by someone.


I like Rousey, and all the emotion and crying etc is just for the cameras. She has beaten tate before, and Tate is a good wrestler so dunno if the 'one trick pony' monica is justified.



Spoiler: TUF First Matchup



She got her arse handed to her in that first match up gamble though . Hope mr sorehand can get the control back for her. Not a big fan of Tate and her 'cupcake' moniker and she does go out with that brown nose Caraway who hounded Dana after healey failed the dope test. Bitchy spoilt brat or not I'm with Rousey on this one. Real shame Zingano couldn't do it but I guess the Rousey/Tate hatefest will make compelling if a little predictable viewing


----------



## tendril (Sep 20, 2013)

So predictions for Saturday? I got Jones, but would like to see Gustafsson win. Healy/Nurmagomedov has action written all over it, hope Healy hasn't had a cheeky toke recently . Don't think Barao will be in any real danger. The close one to call is Schaub/Mitrione. Both have been susceptable to the KO. All in all, can't wait until I come back to London on Sunday to watch the recording.


----------



## tendril (Sep 23, 2013)

Spoiler: UFC 165



Jones got it done  but by the skin of his teeth, Gustafsson is indeed a mauler and I really hope he gets another crack at it. Healy/Nurmagomedov did have action written all over it, though Healy didn't seem to be able to get anything going. Barao definitely wasn't in any real danger and I think he'll run right through Cruz when they do get to fight. Good sub from Schaub/, dunno why Mitrione didn't tap.


----------



## tendril (Sep 28, 2013)

Brazilian MMA fighter dies cutting weight


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Oct 11, 2013)

Latest episode of TUF is a must watch. Amazing fight! Might be a bit of a breakthrough moment for women's MMA.


----------



## tendril (Oct 11, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Latest episode of TUF is a must watch. Amazing fight! Might be a bit of a breakthrough moment for women's MMA.


Got that pon da record to watch when I come back from me mum's this weekend.



Spoiler: In other news: UFC Fight night spoiler



Who's have thunk it, Erick Silva going flat out on his back against Dong Hyun Kim






and Jake Shields out Maiaing Demian Maia to squeek out the decision. Not a bad fight all in all, knowing that it was gonna be mostly on the mat. Shields displaying some excellent reversals, Maia looked a little bewildered at his inability to dominate in the way he did against Fitch, who is a known grinder/wrestler.



Can't wait for 166 and Big country (who looks like he may be taking this fight seriously by the amount of weight he's cut) to go in against DC. I got Cain remaining champ against Dos Santos, but you never know


----------



## tendril (Oct 19, 2013)

Big Country weighs in at 249! You could actually see some abs . Can't fucking wait


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Oct 23, 2013)

One of the best UFC events in a long time! wow...


----------



## tendril (Oct 23, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> One of the best UFC events in a long time! wow...





Spoiler: 166



Yep indeedee.  Dodson showing that the smalls can kick arse just like the other divisions. Great ko from Gonzaga. Melendez/Sanchez... well they deserved every cent of their bonuses. Bit of a shame about the eye poking (again). Jessica Eye looked great against the #2 Kaufman. Womens MMA should really be taking off now, especially with TUF and that's conclusion (Think Rousey is playing for the cameras, but think she is genuine. Can't stand Tate and her weasel boyfriend Caraway-seed. Armbar first round I hope). I missed the online prelims so didn't get to see Ferguson's sub of the night 

Big Roy....... I think it's over. All the heart but just having a decent right hand isn't gonna win you any fights against top #5+ contenders (though I did see he at least attempted a submission this time. Cormiewr looked composed and did what I expected him to do. He'll get his arse kicked at 205 though I reckon.

Main event: Junior, what a shame. he has such great boxing and was beating Cain to the punch almost everytime when he wasn't being pushed up against the cage. Why did he let that happen. Get the fuck off the cage, don't play Cain's game and he would have got that but he just didn't seem to have an answer to Cain's grind. Should have been stopped in the third.



Looking forward to the Manchester event though disappointed Bisping isn't on the card any more


----------



## tendril (Oct 25, 2013)

tendril said:


> Looking forward to the Manchester event though disappointed Bisping isn't on the card any more



Oooh, online prelims start at 5pm. May actually get to watch the whole card this time. Come on Rosi!


----------



## elbows (Oct 26, 2013)

Unsatisfactory main events and inane BT Sports studio commentary. Not the best advert for UFC in the UK on this rare occasion where its on at a reasonable hour. I missed most of the undercard though, was it any good?


----------



## Anonymous1 (Oct 27, 2013)

elbows said:


> Unsatisfactory main events and inane BT Sports studio commentary. Not the best advert for UFC in the UK on this rare occasion where its on at a reasonable hour. I missed most of the undercard though, was it any good?



Prelims were good, def worth a watch.

BT Sports' fox-style studio pish was cringe-worthy. Hope they learn from that lesson early on.

Main card went out with  a fizzle, unfortunate for the folk who paid big notes to attend.

Great fights just around the corner though.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Oct 31, 2013)

OUCH!






http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mma-c...ks-suffered-second-degree-194033969--mma.html

Henricks suffers second degree burns filming commercial for 167.
No mention of fight being cancelled/delayed.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 7, 2013)

Decided I'm not watching 'fight for the troops' because I can't be arsed with pro-military crap. So been watching Lion Muay Thai and going to watch Glory 11 instead.


----------



## tendril (Nov 8, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Decided I'm not watching 'fight for the troops' because I can't be arsed with pro-military crap. So been watching Lion Muay Thai and going to watch Glory 11 instead.


I recorded it and just fast forwarded through all the patriotic bullshit. There were some great fights.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 12, 2013)

Belfort v Hendo spoiler



Spoiler



WOW! Impressive knockout for Vitor. He's got to be due a title shot against the winner of Silva v Weidman now? Hope he gets a rematch against Silva in Brazil. Would be insane!


----------



## tendril (Nov 12, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Belfort v Hendo spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I'm not so sure Hendo was fully out, he's taken more punishment than that and come back, however at 42 he really should be looking to retire. Even though I don't like him much (due to bad press surrounding an assault) Jeremy Stephen's KO was much more impressive imho


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 12, 2013)

Henderson should quit now.
It's about time. I love him like the way I loved Iceman.
Now it's over. He shouldn't come back and that's from someone who has total respect for the guy.

And BT Sports is an awful sporting channel.
Too many adverts and a dumb and dumber studio.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 14, 2013)

Anyone fancy some bareknuckle, full contact, no-rules Muay Thai?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 18, 2013)

Hendrick vs St Pierre



Spoiler



you what? GSP was battered and couldn't even remember what happened in the fight and he won?


----------



## internetstalker (Nov 18, 2013)

Virtual Blue said:


> And BT Sports is an awful sporting channel.
> Too many adverts and a dumb and dumber studio.


ESPN was the same. Isn't the UFC show live? If so the refocus amount of adverts are their fault.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 18, 2013)

internetstalker said:


> ESPN was the same. Isn't the UFC show live? If so the refocus amount of adverts are their fault.



yep ESPN was pretty shite but BT are on another level.
With BT, the adverts come during post match analysis and pre-match hype. That fucks me off totally, to the point I watch UFC with a 5 minute delay.

OMG, and have you seen the BT commentary?
Those fuckin' 'experts?'


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 18, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Hendrick vs St Pierre
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do we need spoilers here? 



Spoiler



Agree with you, GSP was fucked up. 
He was never going to knock Hendrick out and his submission skills is iffy...
I really thought GSP would have taken him down more...
Maybe the judge was scoring it on punches landed.



So GSP is retiring!!


----------



## internetstalker (Nov 18, 2013)

Virtual Blue said:


> yep ESPN was pretty shite but BT are on another level.
> With BT, the adverts come during post match analysis and pre-match hype. That fucks me off totally, to the point I watch UFC with a 5 minute delay.
> 
> OMG, and have you seen the BT commentary?
> Those fuckin' 'experts?'


BT don't have control of the amount of adverts,  nor of who commentates, it's the same guys is always been (kenny florian and that other guy on the smaller productions and rogan and goldberg on the larger) BT have just brought the right to show the production. Like I said there was adverts every 5 minutes on ESPN as it would beif you watched it in the states.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 18, 2013)

internetstalker said:


> BT don't have control of the amount of adverts,  nor of who commentates, it's the same guys is always been (kenny florian and that other guy on the smaller productions and rogan and goldberg on the larger) BT have just brought the right to show the production. Like I said there was adverts every 5 minutes on ESPN as it would beif you watched it in the states.



On UFC 'events' it remains the same.
Okay, I can't remember that the amount of adverts were the same on ESPN - maybe it's cos the BT logo is constantly flashing.

But BT have their own commentaries on Fight Night/ other UFC events - where they cut out what the official UFC commentators are saying....seriously, you not seen this? I can't remember the name but it's a stupid chesty blonde woman who talks about hairstyles/ how mean so-and-so looks and a weedy dude wearing a fuckin' bow tie.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 18, 2013)

Virtual Blue said:


> Do we need spoilers here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some people download them and watch them at a later date (like myself), so spoilers are always needed


----------



## Anonymous1 (Nov 18, 2013)

Spoiler



GSP was well beaten imho. I was gutted for Hendricks. Dana was pissed at the post fight presser but more settled when the got to the media scrum.
I always watch the press conferences and media scrum but for those who don't nornally bother they are well worth a watch.
By the time they got to the scrum Dana was certain GSP's problem wasn't as big a deal as he though, although it was to him.
Seems to think GSP will be back as normal for an immediate rematch.

Was good to see Lawler win too.


----------



## fishfinger (Nov 19, 2013)

Re: GSP v Hendricks


Spoiler



Very surprised at the result. I'm a fan of GSP, but he was soundly beaten by Hendricks. Looking forward to a rematch (If GSPs personal issues allow)


----------



## elbows (Nov 22, 2013)

Spoiler



The problem is mostly the nature of the points system. They aren't scoring the fight as a whole or the damage taken as a whole, but each round in isolation. And GSP did win at least a few rounds, with the final result mostly coming down to who the judges think won the first round.

Its not hard to see why people think the result should have been different, but this wasn't a complete robbery and utterly hideous judging like it sometimes is.

As for the post-fight press conference, Dana really is a dick and Hendricks spitting into that bottle really start to wind me up eventually!


----------



## elbows (Nov 22, 2013)

Spoiler



And don't get me wrong, I would like to see the points system change and there are some judges out there who should be banned. But Dana ranting about the athletics commission in that state does not do the issues justice


----------



## The Boy (Nov 22, 2013)

Am I right in saying that the scoring system used doesn't allowed for rounds to be drawn?


----------



## tendril (Nov 22, 2013)

The Boy said:


> Am I right in saying that the scoring system used doesn't allowed for rounds to be drawn?


 No I think a round can be a draw otherwise you couldn't get a 'draw' outcome to a fight (rare but not unheard of):

i.e.
Fighter 1: 10-9-9
Fighter 2: 9-9-10


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 22, 2013)

you can get a draw if someone loses a point for using illegal techniques or if someone wins a round 10-8 then loses 2 rounds 10-9


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 23, 2013)

draws can and do happen but are increasingly rare. Using the current rules and scoring system, I agree with the judges (by a whisker)


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 2, 2013)

Ultimate Fighter 18 finale



Spoiler



2 deserved winners but I really wanted Davey Grant to win!

Love Diaz's interview though. "I've got shit to do, I'm hungry."


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 2, 2013)

oh yes! Diaz!


----------



## tendril (Dec 2, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> oh yes! Diaz!





Spoiler: indeed


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 9, 2013)

Let's go a little old-school with some Brazilian Vale Tudo:


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 9, 2013)

Holy shit! Hunt vs Silva



Spoiler



Never felt as emotional as that watching a fight. Deserved draw. Don't know how it lasted the full 5 rounds. Such a good fight!!!!


----------



## Anonymous1 (Dec 10, 2013)

> *UFC fighter Shane Del Rosario dies after recent heart attack *



http://www.latimes.com/sports/sport...o-dies-20131209,0,3239964.story#ixzz2n2IOxSti

Thirty years old, ffs. Started off poorly in the UFC but he was good fighter and done well in Strikeforce before he got seriously injured, as some will know.

Unreal.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Dec 13, 2013)

> The UFC has acquired the contracts of 11 female strawweight fighters from Invicta FC and will introduce the weight class next year on "The Ultimate Fighter" reality series.



http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/265825.html

Includes the outstanding Joanne Calderwood. 
Scotland's first TUF winner on the way! Get in there, JoJo.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 13, 2013)

my mate Tyler has just spent time in Canada filming the next aus v Canada tuf house thing. one of my sons is going to be one of his main training partners for his ufc debut. you heard it here first 

but Anonymous1 joanne is fucking awesome! did you see invicta last weekend? I was disappointed cos leslie smith lost to koscjeck, fair enough koscheck won, but im a big leslie fan. we have the same style iyswim?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 13, 2013)

ps! who saw the mosely v mundine fight! talk about roll over @@@@!!!!


----------



## Anonymous1 (Dec 13, 2013)

ice-is-forming said:


> my mate Tyler has just spent time in Canada filming the next aus v Canada tuf house thing. one of my sons is going to be one of his main training partners for his ufc debut. you heard it here first
> 
> but Anonymous1 joanne is fucking awesome! did you see invicta last weekend? I was disappointed cos leslie smith lost to koscjeck, fair enough koscheck won, but im a big leslie fan. we have the same style iyswim?




Yes, but it was very late here/early in the morn, i didn't watch it all but will try and get a torrent for the last couple of fights.
I love that she's not brash in anyway or shape and talks like a mouse, but when she gloves up! 
I get goosebumps just thinking of seeing her on TUF, may cannot come quick enough.

(Btw how go do that tag thing? Been wondering that for a bit)


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 18, 2013)

Anyone been watching TUF China? It's a bit of a shambles so far. They picked a guy to go in the house that had no combat sport experience, he was a yoga teachers  He lasted a couple of days before he realised he can't fight and quit the show. A lot of them are sanda fighters and still pretty inexperienced in MMA too. Obviously they are quite close to each other but sanda has no ground game at all.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 27, 2013)

mate is in this one at 48 seconds! I've 'heard' that he'll be in training for a ufc match up sometime after the airing of tuf aus v Canada. so? my youngest son, just moved to  the town where tyler lives for uni. my son is in heaven as him n tyler spar together whenever they can. so I cant see much study getting  done


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 28, 2013)

Just incase anyone is interested, a very good MMA tracker is now open for sign up for a couple of days. Just signed up and there is loads of MMA stuff and other combat sports on there. Fights, docs, instructionals etc


----------



## tendril (Dec 28, 2013)

Any


ReturnOfElfman said:


> Just incase anyone is interested, a very good MMA tracker is now open for sign up for a couple of days. Just signed up and there is loads of MMA stuff and other combat sports on there. Fights, docs, instructionals etc


 
any chance of a pm link?


----------



## Anonymous1 (Dec 28, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Just incase anyone is interested, a very good MMA tracker is now open for sign up for a couple of days. Just signed up and there is loads of MMA stuff and other combat sports on there. Fights, docs, instructionals etc



sounds good, link please?


----------



## Anonymous1 (Dec 28, 2013)

What a stacked card for tonight, can't fucking wait. This is my Christmas!
I think AS will me more direct and less fannying about but i feel for Weidman. If he loses it'll be as though he was never champ the way they promote Silva. Tough shit, He's in the history books along with the sight of AS out cold. I love watching Silva's skill but he's went too far with the games on a few occasions. Would love to see Weidman sub Silva but i think i live in hope with that but we'll see.

Barnett and Travis Browne, Poirier/Brandao and Siver v Gamburyan should all be great fights aswell, and Rousey/Tate speaks for itself.
Roll on prelims.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Dec 28, 2013)

I think the festive sherry is still flowing freely. What an article.



> For over seven years, Silva has had the UFC in a stranglehold. Being the best fighter on the planet sounds great to an MMA enthusiast, but in order to draw bigger pay per view sales, a fighter has to give something extra. You cannot simply be a great fighter in a day and age where social media is a dominant marketing tool. You have to be active and visible in every realm. Silva hasn't been that and perhaps it is time for a true changing of the guard.



Maybe they've missed the numerous go-to soundbytes from Dana about no matter your language/culture, we all understand fighting (as a concept, don't know why i feel the need to add that on an MMA thread). The sport is still growing ffs. We've still got to see waves mexicans, chinese and many others to make it to the big stage yet. Just look as the young russinans (Dagestan mainly so deliberate small r) coming through. It won't be too long before one those lads win a belt. Who gives a fuck if they can't speak english or don't _do _twitter etc. Their actions will win them fans, if people are only interested
in their own language there's a whole lot they're are missing out on, maybe the sport just isn't for them and i doubt MMA will be worse of for it.

/rant.


----------



## elbows (Dec 28, 2013)

But like it or not a lot of journos will write about the business aspect, and to get well above the normal number of pay-per-view buys the UFC does need its fighters to capture mainstream attention, at least sometimes. I think the stuff about social media is mostly crock though, compared to other things that can be measured such as the number of people watching the pre-show hype specials the social media stuff is largely irrelevant. In fact it often says more about the interest level of a base of hardcore fans than the broader mainstream that these journalists fixate over.

Make no mistake, the sport as a whole may still be evolving but UFC business peaked some years back. And that hasn't happened because of a lack of tweets or because of language issues. It's because a generation of popular, charismatic fighters retired, long-running feuds were settled and also the switch of UFC to TV stations in the USA that have less casual viewers. And arguably because the novelty of things like the ultimate fighter wore off, and the UFC have been putting on so many shows in recent years that only the hardcore fans will try to watch them all. Even in areas such as weight divisions and number of champions, the sporting aspect can be at odds with the business aspect, with things spread rather thin at the moment. 

In any case any resurgence in UFC business one day doesn't have to have anything to do with language, social media or media accessibility of the top fighters. There are several forms of charisma that are not reliant on language for a start, and enigmas can be compelling too. I'm certainly no sports purist, I appreciate the fights but I do prefer it when there is a big buzz and things feel like they are on fire. The fundamental limitation to that in the UK is probably down to the time the shows are on. Having more successful UK fighters would help too. 

There is of course nothing wrong with having no interest at all in this side of the business, and just appreciating the fights and fighters. But those who want to drone on about the wider business & mainstream stuff aren't going away either.

I am really looking forward to tonights show a lot. Its been a long time since I was this interested in a UFC event.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 28, 2013)

I've ordered it on pay per view but my son that is sick cant come over and watch it now because my daughter is sick, and he cant be around sickness or he'll end up in hospital. so anyone got any good links for free streams please and thanks


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 29, 2013)

omgosh! 



Spoiler



unfortunately tate lost by...yes that's right an arm bar in rd 3 and jebus! watch the slow motion replay of silvas leg break after weidman checked a leg kick at the start of round 2!! hes not gonna be fighting for a while :/


----------



## tendril (Dec 29, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Holy shit! Hunt vs Silva
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 http://mmajunkie.com/2013/12/antoni...post-fight-drug-test-stripped-of-50000-bonus/
bigfoot bigfat drugcheat


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 29, 2013)

Not anticipated a UFC event as much as 168 and overall it had some really entertaining fights and lots of talking points.



Spoiler



Never though Tate would win but it was a good fight and Ronda getting booed made me lol a bit. Zingano should be up next, right? Think she will be the 1st 'real' contender to take on Rousey and should be fun to watch.

Silva's leg break was a disappointing end and don't think anyone expects him to come back again. Really want someone to come and KO Weidman. Can't stand all the All-American crap and God loving stuff. I imagine he's up against Vitor next? Not his biggest fan either but hope he can get rid of Weidman quick.

Browne's looking good in the heavy weights and was a brutal finish. Poirier looked really good too. Uriah Hall won his 1st UFC fight finally, so see if he can kick on from there.


----------



## elbows (Dec 29, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



It's Rousey vs Sara McMann next, with no rest for Rousey as the fight is scheduled for Feb 22nd. As for Rousey getting booed, it was inevitable after her performance on the ultimate fighter, and she makes a natural heel. I think she also knows enough about the promotion business to go along with it, but also has some pretty serious issues that would make it hard for her to behave a different way if she had to.

The replay of Silvas leg break was absolutely disgusting, reminded me of Sid Vicious breaking his leg in pro wrestling.

Its certainly a very awkward stage in his career to have this happen and make a comeback. He is pretty old for a fighter too, I would retire if I were him.


----------



## elbows (Dec 29, 2013)

Spoiler



And the reason its not Zingano as Rouseys next opponent is that Zingano doesn't start proper training again till March. So with Rousey keen to fight again quickly they've squeezed another fight in before Zingano is good to go.


----------



## tendril (Dec 29, 2013)

Spoiler: ouchy ouchy ouch


----------



## fishfinger (Dec 29, 2013)

Spoiler



I thought Silva looked old and tired before the fight. He seemed to lack his usual spark. It was a real shame to see it end the way it did. I wish him a speedy recovery.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Dec 29, 2013)

Great night of fights.

Can't remember how to do spoilers but feel this should cover it:

FUCK.

All in all it was a great event but .


----------



## tendril (Dec 29, 2013)

Anonymous1 said:


> Great night of fights.
> 
> Can't remember how to do spoilers but feel this should cover it:
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Travis looking awesome against Barnett. Maybe time for his shot?


----------



## Anonymous1 (Dec 29, 2013)

tendril said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Travis looking awesome against Barnett. Maybe time for his shot?



Has to be but as Velasquez is out (probably a full year) it'll be Verdum now. He was promised the next shot and tried to say he'll wait for Cain but that's been knocked on it's head 'cause of the time frame. Another great match up awaits.


----------



## tendril (Dec 30, 2013)

Fuck me the purses are skewed in the UFC:




> *Anderson Silva: *$600,000
> 
> *Chris Weidman*: $400,000 ($200,000 to show, $200,000 win bonus)
> 
> ...



Can't believe Travis Browne only got $28K for showing and he has been a staple of the ufc for a while whilst Barnett who has had a long time out of the organisation gets more for losing (same with Weidman getting less for winning over Silva)


----------



## tendril (Dec 30, 2013)




----------



## tendril (Jan 7, 2014)

Fuck me, Cruz is out with a groin injury and is vacating the title. Urija Faber stepping in with 3 weeks notice ........


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jan 7, 2014)

What a sad run of injuries he's had. Hopefully he gets back into it as soon as possible but he must be questioning his body holding up by now.
Vacating the title must be gutting but it's the right thing to do after all the time he's had previously. 

Some of the comments after that piece are a joke in themselves though, calling him a 'puss' and saying he's scared of Barao. Halfwits.
Faber has done well since he lost to Barao and is always working hard to improve but Barao is a different animal. I think he'll go one better and
finish the fight this time. 

Some great fight to see over the next few weeks with WSOF and RFA on aswell.


----------



## tendril (Jan 7, 2014)

Anonymous1 said:


> What a sad run of injuries he's had. Hopefully he gets back into it as soon as possible but he must be questioning his body holding up by now.
> Vacating the title must be gutting but it's the right thing to do after all the time he's had previously.
> 
> Some of the comments after that piece are a joke in themselves though, calling him a 'puss' and saying he's scared of Barao. Halfwits.
> ...


 Thing is, I reckon Faber/Barao will be a better fight. I reckon tyhat Barao would have run right through Cruz, based upon the fact that he has had fights and improved in the 2 years Cruz has been off. There is always ring-rust to consider. Faber is looking awesome at the moment and really has a shot at getting that belt, whereas i reckon Cruz would have lost it in the first or second round.


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jan 7, 2014)

tendril said:


> Thing is, I reckon Faber/Barao will be a better fight. I reckon tyhat Barao would have run right through Cruz, based upon the fact that he has had fights and improved in the 2 years Cruz has been off. There is always ring-rust to consider. Faber is looking awesome at the moment and really has a shot at getting that belt, whereas i reckon Cruz would have lost it in the first or second round.



 I get you about the ring-rust but Cruz's style would have been very awkward  for Barao due to his crazy footwork and his love of working behind the jab.
We've already seen Faber destroyed by Aldo's kicks and he did well to try to suppress Barao's in the first fight but he was still too much.
I just think that will be the case again except this time he'll be out for the finish to cement his place at the top of the pile.


----------



## tendril (Jan 7, 2014)

Anonymous1 said:


> I get you about the ring-rust but Cruz's style would have been very awkward  for Barao due to his crazy footwork and his love of working behind the jab.
> We've already seen Faber destroyed by Aldo's kicks and he did well to try to suppress Barao's in the first fight but he was still too much.
> I just think that will be the case again except this time he'll be out for the finish to cement his place at the top of the pile.


 unless Faber has taken a leaf out of Weidman's book and learned to check the kicks properly. Could end very suddenly for Barao


----------



## tendril (Jan 14, 2014)

Going for my first Jiu Jitsu lesson this wednesday. Wish me 'bon chance' 'cos I'm bricking it!


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 25, 2014)

Ow...


----------



## tendril (Jan 25, 2014)

Bakunin said:


> Ow...



indeed


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 26, 2014)

watching the prelims now, main event should be great GO TEAM HENDERSON!


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 27, 2014)

Click to 8:15 in for possibly the nastiest left hook Mike Bernardo ever threw:


----------



## elbows (Feb 7, 2014)

Thiago Silva is gone from UFC after being arrested for all kinds of bad shit.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/2/7...eld-gun-in-wifes-mouth-threatened-to-shoot-up


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 12, 2014)

Please support my friend..

 at helptyler on face book.

FACT: 40% of all Maori males over the age of 15 years have either been imprisoned or served a community sentence.

FACT: Indigenous persons make up 26 per cent of the prisoner population yet only constitute 2.5 per cent of the Australian population.

FACT: Approximately 12%-13% of the American population is African-American, but they make up 40% of the almost 2.1 million male inmates in jail or prison.

The meme that Tyler posted as a young teen a few years ago was the truth, just made more palatable for people who wish to ignore it. As one of the people affected by these appalling statistics I believe that Tyler had the right to make a social comment, as distasteful as some people have found it. When he found out people were upset and misunderstanding he removed it and apologised.

Sometimes the truth hurts but don’t shoot the messenger! Dana White by doing this to Tyler, you are perpetuating the continuing abusive and racist treatment towards indigenous people worldwide. Keeping that ‘uppity nigger’ in his place. I had honestly thought better of you


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 13, 2014)

http://mmajunkie.com/2014/02/manager-defends-tyler-manawaroa-says-tuf-contestant-not-racist/


----------



## Bakunin (Feb 14, 2014)

tendril said:


> indeed



But not as ow as this:


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 22, 2014)

Rousey V mcMan. Who for the win?  I'd like to see Rousey go for longer than one round tbh. She usually pulls that arm bar on people really fast and never has to work too hard. So it'll be interesting to see. I'd love to see McMann win because I don't like Rousey's attitude.


----------



## tendril (Feb 22, 2014)

ice-is-forming said:


> Rousey V mcMan. Who for the win?  I'd like to see Rousey go for longer than one round tbh. She usually pulls that arm bar on people really fast and never has to work too hard. So it'll be interesting to see. I'd love to see McMann win because I don't like Rousey's attitude.


Rousey may get tested on the ground but her striking is on point. Could go to a decision. I'm rooting for Cummings just because I like an underdog

not going to get to watch it until Monday though as down seeing my mum. Means I gotta stay off this thread and Facebook until I get home though


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 23, 2014)

Spoiler



well that was well fucked! boo hiss at herb dean!


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Feb 25, 2014)

Bit of a crap card to say it was a ppv event. Not one to normally complain about that either

The Maia-McDonald fight was entertaining but with the premature stoppage of the Rousey-McMann and the total mismatch of Cormier-WhatsHisFace, it was a bit meh.


----------



## tendril (Feb 25, 2014)

ice-is-forming said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> well that was well fucked! boo hiss at herb dean!





Spoiler



The refs do seem to stop the girls early. Herb was criticised by the commentators for letting a previous (male) bout in the card go on longer than it needed to.


----------



## tendril (Feb 25, 2014)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Bit of a crap card to say it was a ppv event. Not one to normally complain about that either
> 
> The Maia-McDonald fight was entertaining but with the premature stoppage of the Rousey-McMann and the total mismatch of Cormier-WhatsHisFace, it was a bit meh.


First two fights on the main card were good though. Thompson made short work of Whittaker and Pyle showed some great veteran moves to finish Waldburger in the third


----------



## elbows (Feb 28, 2014)

Testosterone replacement therapy has now been banned by the Nevada state athletics commission. Dana White has said he is happy with this and that UFC will apply the same rule when fighting in areas overseas (like the UK) where the UFC acts as the regulator itself.

Quite a lot of big names will be affected by this. The first one is Vitor Belfort, who has pulled out of the May fight with Weidman. Machida is taking his place.

I am happy about this, the exemptions were stupid.


----------



## elbows (Feb 28, 2014)

Ooh Brazil have followed:



> "We discussed this subject for a long time here at CABMMA," he said, "and, as we use Nevada’s athletic commission as a model, we decided to make the same decision here in Brazil and no longer grant TRT exemptions for any fighter."
> 
> CABMMA’s decision won’t be applied to UFC’s next card in Brazil on March 23.
> 
> Dan Henderson, who takes on Mauricio Rua in the main event, will be granted a license to take TRT for the five-round fight, but it will be the last one in Brazil. Scheduled to fight Wanderlei Silva on May 31 in Brazil, Chael Sonnen won’t receive a TRT exemption.



http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/2/28/5456702/brazilian-commission-follows-nevada-in-trt-ban


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 28, 2014)

The testerone exemptions were hilarious, but only a particularly blatant example of PED use, which is widespread throughout both MMA and it's older brother boxing. Testing regimes are wholly inadequate and any attempt to improve things will run straight into the sort of commercial interests that, in slightly different ways, control the two sports. Catching people is bad for business, freakish specimens are good for it.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 2, 2014)

TUF China finale main event



Spoiler


----------



## tendril (Mar 2, 2014)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> TUF China finale main event
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler





Spoiler



That was a doozy, well deserved bonus as was Takudomi/Nam, great battle


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 2, 2014)

wandlie silva v chael sonnen as coaches for TUF in Brazil starting next week, should be good telly!


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 2, 2014)

ice-is-forming said:


> wandlie silva v chael sonnen as coaches for TUF in Brazil starting next week, should be good telly!


They have a really shit fight on it apparently


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2014)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> They have a really shit fight on it apparently



lots of trash talking I hope


----------



## elbows (Mar 7, 2014)

UFC Fight Pass is now available in the UK. I have signed up for a trial, mostly for the archive content.


----------



## tendril (Mar 7, 2014)

elbows said:


> UFC Fight Pass is now available in the UK. I have signed up for a trial, mostly for the archive content.


me too. I wonder if it is possible to record the streamed media?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 7, 2014)

From what I've heard it's overall a bit shit for what you pay. But that's what I've heard from people who are on a decent mma tracker...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 24, 2014)

who saw the UFC  today? really bad ref call in the first fight and the main event ended just the way i wanted it to   looking forward to jon jones v -Glover Teixeira!


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 24, 2014)

Interesting documentary in the making about an extremely colourful early MMA pioneer (sort of)

http://thesearchforcountdante.com/blog/


----------



## elbows (Mar 24, 2014)

ice-is-forming said:


> who saw the UFC  today? really bad ref call in the first fight and the main event ended just the way i wanted it to   looking forward to jon jones v -Glover Teixeira!



I started out watching the fight pass prelims. They started half an hour later than the UFC email told me they would, and then I was driven totally insane by the number of adverts I had to endure during the BT Sports prelims and main card. So perhaps my view of the show was distorted by these viewing displeasures, but I found the whole show a bit of a mess in terms of how it flowed. Fights ending too quickly or getting really tedious, with only a couple of exceptions. At least the main event was good. And I did laugh when thinking to myself at the end of one tedious fight that neither fighter deserved to win, and then the judges ruled it a draw, ha. As for the bad ref call, that was one of the worst I think I''ve seen in UFC.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 6, 2014)

brutal man!

 fight 1 of the tuF event  1 LPH; poznan poland v gothernburg sweden youtube


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 6, 2014)

and jeez!

brutal with a sound track. what will someone think of next!


----------



## tendril (Apr 6, 2014)

ice-is-forming said:


> brutal man!
> 
> fight 1 of the tuF event  1 LPH; poznan poland v gothernburg sweden youtube


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 6, 2014)

iona http://invictafc.com/ is always great cards! very technical and some mental too  check out leslie smith , i like her style.


----------



## tendril (Apr 12, 2014)

Spoiler: Abu Dhabi was quite a night. 



Bedford/Yahya was a shame and got a bit nasty afterwards but the rest of the card was quite good. Props to Howard for carrying on after the brutal nutbuster he received. Guida/Kawajiri was a great grappling chess match and imho worthy of the fight of the night bonus. And then, of course, we were treated to the Big Country signature KO.


----------



## tendril (Apr 27, 2014)

Spoiler: UFC 172



Well it wasn't too bad a card in the end. Two decent KOs, Four decent subs (Rockhold looked very slick, even with a broken toe) and a very deserved FOTN:

 

Mr Jones took care of business, though I must admit I favoured Teixeira and lost a fiver in the process. It's looking increasingly likely that Mr Gustafsson may be the only person who has a chance of taking the belt.


----------



## elbows (May 6, 2014)

Anonymous1 said:


> http://www.espn.co.uk/ufc/sport/story/265825.html
> 
> Includes the outstanding Joanne Calderwood.
> Scotland's first TUF winner on the way! Get in there, JoJo.



The FT had an article on her the other day, which the UFC linked to on Facebook.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d28a8252-cfff-11e3-a2b7-00144feabdc0.html


----------



## Anonymous1 (May 7, 2014)

elbows said:


> The FT had an article on her the other day, which the UFC linked to on Facebook.
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d28a8252-cfff-11e3-a2b7-00144feabdc0.html



That was a good wee read, cheers.
Just a pity it's such a long wait until we see her back in action again.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (May 16, 2014)

Video of UFC main event from the weekend if you didn't see it


Spoiler: video


----------



## tendril (May 16, 2014)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Video of UFC main event from the weekend if you didn't see it
> 
> 
> Spoiler: video





Spoiler



It was indeed a good fight. Thought Brown was out of it early in the first. Showed great heart to come back with the win


----------



## Anonymous1 (May 25, 2014)

Great fights last night/this morning on 173.



Spoiler



I was surprised at how easy Cormier threw Henderson about like an empty suit. I thought DC would win but not quite like that.

Barao v Dillishaw was a treat and a half. I thought Barao would win or maybe even lose to a decision but fuck me sideways!
Dillishaw put on a masterclass and dominated Barao from start to finish. Was hard to watch as Barao is a personal favourite but you
can't hold anything against Dillishaw. He's cocky in the cage but drops the ego as soon as he steps out. A truly deserving champion.
Last word has to go to Jamie Varner, what a warrior. Hope he returns soon.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2014)

After all the hype, the Wanderlei Silva - Chael Sonnen fight that fell apart when Silva failed to submit to a random drug test, has now become a double drug fiasco.

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/11062115/chael-sonnen-fails-random-drug-test-ufc-175-bout



> UFC light heavyweight Chael Sonnen has failed a random drug test and will not fight Vitor Belfort at UFC 175 on July 5.
> 
> The Nevada State Athletic Commission randomly tested Sonnen last month while he was in Las Vegas to attend a UFC news conference. Results confirmed the presence of two illegal substances, anastrozole and clomiphene.





> The substances Sonnen tested positive for are classified as antiestrogenic. Anastrozole is used to treat early stages of breast cancer. Clomiphene is used in cases of female infertility.





> The NSAC banned TRT in combat sports in February, however, which forced Sonnen to abandon treatment. Shortly after the ban, Sonnen stated he would have to find alternative methods to raise his testosterone or retire.
> 
> "If [the ban] retires guys, then it retires guys," Sonnen said on "UFC Tonight." "Rules are rules, and the rules need to be followed.
> 
> ...


----------



## tendril (Jun 18, 2014)




----------



## elbows (Jun 29, 2014)

Blimey, they actually managed to catch someone taking human growth hormone, which usually slips through the sort of testing that is routine. Of course it had to be Chael Sonnen!


----------



## The Boy (Jun 29, 2014)

elbows said:


> Blimey, they actually managed to catch someone taking human growth hormone, which usually slips through the sort of testing that is routine. Of course it had to be Chael Sonnen!



So that's his third, right?


----------



## elbows (Jun 29, 2014)

Yeah.

In 2010, for a testosterone:eiptestosterone ratio that was over the limit by a stupid amount.

The way he dealt with that one at commission hearings was a contributor to the stupid situation we had for years where testosterone replacement therapy was publicly acknowledged and then given the green light for a number of competitors.

Failed in May for several banned substances relating to dealing with the effects of low testosterone, but not performance enhancers in themselves. Since testosterone replacement had recently been banned in sudden fashion, some felt sympathy with him over this one. Not me though, since fighters who needed TRT should not have fought so soon after the ban, and if ultimately they were still in no shape to fight, they should simply retire.

Failed in June for human growth hormone and other substances that relate to performance enhancement, steroid cycles and low testosterone. That should kill any sympathy for his May failure.

Kind of fitting that he was central to both the beginning and the end of the TRT exemption era. All this stuff only scratches the surface of the bigger picture though, a mess that won't go away even if the UFC took drug testing more seriously. Random testing all year round, and far more blood testing, would help a bit and at least send the right message, but still isn't going to eliminate these issues.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jul 9, 2014)

iona ,  my friend Greg is in the blue  & 2 of my sons were his training partners for this fight (well most of his fights tbh) this is how my sons roll. you can't half tell they'd all been studying eddie bravo!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jul 9, 2014)

this is my 2nd son on the left


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 21, 2014)

The crowd went through the roof in Dublin. 
Top notch fights all the way, i won't post spoilers as some have to wait to see it but fucking hell.  
That was a card not to be missed.


----------



## tendril (Jul 21, 2014)

Anonymous1 said:


> The crowd went through the roof in Dublin.
> Top notch fights all the way, i won't post spoilers as some have to wait to see it but fucking hell.
> That was a card not to be missed.





Spoiler: you've been warned



I thought Brandao folded a bit quickly though


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2014)

Nick Diaz has signed with UFC again despite all his baloney about retirement. A fight with Anderson Silva seems to be on the cards.

Ad while not officially signed yet, a deal with Gina Carano to fight Rousey seems to be very close if all the reports are to be believed.


----------



## Bakunin (Aug 9, 2014)

In memory of K1 fighter Mike Bernardo. Click to 1:30 for possibly the nastiest left hook KO ever:


----------



## tendril (Aug 20, 2014)




----------



## ska invita (Sep 9, 2014)

A good friend of mine with Brazillian connections is trying to crowdfund his documentary on Rio's MMA scene and relation with favela life


he's already made a short that went up on Vice

If you're interested please have a look and even better still if you can afford it please put some money in (as is the way you get all kinds of goodies for doing so)
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hill-of-champions


----------



## tendril (Sep 17, 2014)

looking forward to Hunt - Nelson this weekend. Won't be a pretty or technical fight but I'm sure it will be entertaining.


----------



## Maya Lara (Sep 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Give it all the names you like, it is still basically lawless brawling. Myself and the Maquis are not impressed. Not impressed at all.


Any observation on Krav Maga? So far, I think it's pretty practical combat technique.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 21, 2014)

100% masahiko said:


> please please please quit Gomi...
> you were great once but not now....



Pls quit...it's embarrassing.


----------



## Bakunin (Sep 22, 2014)

Hope this chap still has all his teeth.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 2, 2014)

STOP! ELBOW TIME!


----------



## iona (Nov 18, 2014)

UFC 180 prelims - ouch 



Spoiler: exploding ear


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 11, 2014)

Glad he was kicking a straw dummy...


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 4, 2015)

Just watched UFC182



Spoiler: Main Event



JJ is on his way to becoming the GOAT. A few more fights to get there but to be able to win DC in the way he did, take him down and take some decent shots on the way, shows how talented he is. I know people don't like him but I wish I was that talented


----------



## tendril (Jan 8, 2015)




----------



## tendril (Jan 14, 2015)

Silva, but I don't think it will be easy for him. Woodley without a doubt.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Feb 4, 2015)

Silva tested positive for steroids.
And Diaz, predictably, for weed.


----------



## tendril (Feb 4, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> Silva tested positive for steroids.
> And Diaz, predictably, for weed.


, though tbf Diaz is a registered medical marijuana patient


----------



## Virtual Blue (Feb 4, 2015)

I didn't know that about Diaz.
Drugs and UFC headline ! Twice in a row...not good for the sport.

Tbh, I liked Silva but he needs to hang up his gloves now.
It's over. He should retire.


----------



## tendril (Feb 4, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> I didn't know that about Diaz.
> Drugs and UFC headline ! Twice in a row...not good for the sport.
> 
> Tbh, I liked Silva but he needs to hang up his gloves now.
> It's over. He should retire.


plus one fight cancelled on doctors advice (from prelims) plus 2 fighters missed weight. Bit of a shambles. Now Weidman is out. Personally I'm looking forward to the Reem/Big Country fight before we get to see if Conor Mcgregor can walk the walk against Aldo.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 5, 2015)

How stupid are MMA fighters that they actually manage to get caught in scheduled pre-fight tests? That's proper thick as pigshit stuff.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 9, 2015)

Judo governing body in conflict with MMA. 


> Mixed Martial Arts is not a sport, sets a bad example for children and does not have human values, the head of European judo has told BBC World Service Sport.
> 
> Glasgow lost the right to host the European Judo Championships because of British Judo's close ties with MMA.
> 
> ...


 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/judo/31759834


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 9, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Judo governing body in conflict with MMA.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/judo/31759834


I do have my criticisms of the way MMA has developed but there's no denying it's brought a lot of people into martial arts whether of the 'mixed' variety or the more traditional disciplines. I think these traditional disciplines should make the most of this like many have done already.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 9, 2015)

I can sympathise with the Judo governing bodies in question to some degree.

Judo _is_ supposed to be about more than smashing people's faces in, but these governing bodies are the same ones, or directly descended from those, who took it away from the broader socially constructive intentions expressed by the founder in the first place, and focussed it almost exclusively on competitive sport, so it also seems a bit fishy to me to object to MMA taking the competitive aspect even further.

I also strongly suspect that Kano's original crew would have been all over MMA and very successful at it. They were well up for no-holds-barred fights in their early days, the kind where people could and did get killed and as far as we can trust the historical account, they usually won. Kurosawa even made a movie about that period of Judo.

BJJ as it's now called is fundamentally a form of Judo-based NHB fighting, taught to the Gracies by Maeda, who was one of the second generation of Kodokan no-holds-barred champions. Kano sent Maeda (or he sent himself, opinions vary) on what amounted to a permanent world tour doing challenge matches with other martial arts to promote Judo around the world.

However, as with many other Olympic disciplines, the Judo governing hierarchy is an unaccountable oligarchy. (Not than MMA is much better obviously.) Sepp Blatter would feel completely at home with the way sport Judo is governed and no doubt some of the tin gods of the Judo bureaucracy feel threatened by the commercial success of MMA.


----------



## iona (Mar 9, 2015)

Good post Bernie Gunther 

It's ridiculous. IJF are banning Judo players from competing in "other grappling sports," the French Judo Federation are banning people involved in teaching MMA - they go on about Judo becoming "spiritually contaminated" and yet they've come up with MJA (Mixed Jujitsu Arts) and the BJA are involved in setting up a UK BJJ Association despite there already being one.


----------



## imperator777 (Mar 18, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Judo governing body in conflict with MMA.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/judo/31759834



The IJF are the most conservative Judo fed.

Judo lost the plot in the 1960s by making so many techniques illegal.


iona said:


> Good post Bernie Gunther
> 
> It's ridiculous. IJF are banning Judo players from competing in "other grappling sports," the French Judo Federation are banning people involved in teaching MMA - they go on about Judo becoming "spiritually contaminated" and yet they've come up with MJA (Mixed Jujitsu Arts) and the BJA are involved in setting up a UK BJJ Association despite there already being one.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 19, 2015)

Don't know if anyone watched UFC at the weekend but good to see the first Polish (and only 3rd European) to win a title.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 19, 2015)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Don't know if anyone watched UFC at the weekend but good to see the first Polish (and only 3rd European) to win a title.



Carla was so outclassed it was cringworthy to watch


----------



## tendril (Mar 19, 2015)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Don't know if anyone watched UFC at the weekend but good to see the first Polish (and only 3rd European) to win a title.


Got it pon da record to watch when I get back tomorrow. Hear big Roy lost again. He must be done by now....


----------



## elbows (Mar 19, 2015)

tendril said:


> Got it pon da record to watch when I get back tomorrow. Hear big Roy lost again. He must be done by now....



Probably not. Still ranked 10th in the heavyweight division, and attempts are being made to setup a fight with Josh Barnett.

http://www.ufc.com/rankings

http://cagepages.com/2015/03/17/roy-nelson-and-josh-barnett-verbally-agree-to-heavyweight-clash/


----------



## tendril (Mar 21, 2015)

elbows said:


> Probably not. Still ranked 10th in the heavyweight division, and attempts are being made to setup a fight with Josh Barnett.
> 
> http://www.ufc.com/rankings
> 
> http://cagepages.com/2015/03/17/roy-nelson-and-josh-barnett-verbally-agree-to-heavyweight-clash/


Well just watched the whole presentation and it was a good card. Glad to see my namesake, Pearson, back in the win column. Roy didn't do too badly considering he broke his hand but he needs better tatctics, especially against volume strikers. Hendricks/Brown was good and Joanna Jedrzejczyk earned the well deserved title against Carla Esparza. FOTN was, for me, Pittis/Dos Anjos with Dos Anjos earning the decisive win.


----------



## tendril (May 2, 2015)

So Jones loses his belt due to a hit and run. What a dick!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/32516505


----------



## ice-is-forming (May 2, 2015)

hit and run leaving a pregnant woman with broken limbs and the whole coke thing to boot...


----------



## tendril (May 2, 2015)

ice-is-forming said:


> hit and run leaving a pregnant woman with broken limbs and the whole coke thing to boot...


Quite. Not the actions of an elite athlete, more the behavour of, as the A-mericans like to put it, a douchebag


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 24, 2015)

http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/other-sport/aldo-v-mcgregor-off-reports-5936884

Awful if this is confirmed.
Been looking forward to this for months and months now


----------



## fishfinger (Jun 24, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/other-sport/aldo-v-mcgregor-off-reports-5936884
> 
> Awful if this is confirmed.
> Been looking forward to this for months and months now


Bugger


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jun 25, 2015)

Still on apparently...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jul 12, 2015)

yep, Mendez v Mcgregor. 
lawson v mcdonald
Matt brown V tim means
garcia v swick
nelson v thatch
plus more...

its a great card, who you got, Mcgregor or mendez?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 12, 2015)

Absolutely great main card. Some amazing fights! Kind of too good...


----------



## gawkrodger (Jul 12, 2015)

One of the greatest UFC events of all time. Utterly brilliant


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jul 13, 2015)

excellent performance and one of the best UFCs I seen for a while.
every fight was excellent.

Mendes vs Mcgregor - does anyone know how much Mendes got paid? He wasn't 100% fit and was gassed out by 2nd round - which is very much unlike him. Good fight but it does make me wonder.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jul 13, 2015)

$500k (with no win bonus). This doesn't include sponsor money, cut of the PPV and any other bonus


----------



## gawkrodger (Jul 13, 2015)

and re: gassing - whilst he won't have been in the shape a 3 month camp would have brought he suffered brutal strikes to the body


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jul 13, 2015)

...i appreciate Mcgregor and don't mind his trash-talking (think he tops Diaz in this game ).

But I felt we saw Mendes at 70% fitness and he was real sloppy at times. Maybe it was the body blows...
Great fight nevertheless and though I was disappointed with Aldo pulling out, Mendes is a true hero for showing up and Mcgregor for having to adopt his game.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jul 15, 2015)

and it's just come out that the injury hinted at in post-fight speeches etc was a knee injury (tweaked ACL if my sources are accurate) which prevented Conor sparring/drilling wrestling and sparring MMA in his camp


----------



## Anonymous1 (Jul 17, 2015)

What a treat 189 was. You can't not-like Mendes, top fighter and a class act.
Aye, he took it on short notice with a very short camp but McGregor accepted a complete change of opponent and fighting style also.  They both deserve the credit.
They will surely meet again, and with both getting full camps it'll be a lot more anticipated for it's own reasons than as an interesting last minute stand in.

Still to watch prelims but last nights fight night had a few good yin's and certainly ended with a thud!

Can't wait for Saturday, first UFC in Scotland and i'll be there. The card could've been a bit stronger but it was going to be well received regardless.
Hopefully with the quick sell-out and a raucous crowd the fighters will be clammering to get on the next card here just as in Dublin.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jul 17, 2015)

Don't bother with the prelims!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Aug 3, 2015)

Rousimar Palhares is at it again.
I don't understand why such a gifted fighter has sunk to such depths.
Shame but I can see him getting booted from WSOF


----------



## elbows (Aug 3, 2015)

I don't know as I'd describe it as having sunk, given that he was in trouble for not releasing submissions as long ago as 2010 when he was on the way up.

He's got major issues and should be banned from the sport in my opinion.


----------



## elbows (Aug 3, 2015)

Annoyed with myself for falling asleep before the Rousey fight, I guess the rest of the card wasn't doing it for me!

It is quite hilarious to start to see all the 'normal' bodies appear in UFC since they finally got tough on performance enhancing drugs. Some of the transformations are quite dramatic, and aids me in convincing the youngsters at work that it's not just the obvious ultra-freaks who have been abusing stuff in MMA and Pro Wrestling.


----------



## elbows (Aug 3, 2015)

If I were Reebok I'd be reconsidering the idea of having all the fighters team members wearing that kit - flabby blokes in ill-fitting sportswear adds unwanted comedy to the proceedings


----------



## gawkrodger (Aug 3, 2015)

From all accounts (including people I know who have trained for fair periods of time in his BJJ gym in Brazil and who have close dealings with him in the MMA world) he does suffer from some form of learning disability.


----------



## Corax (Aug 17, 2015)

Is it just me that has a massive crush on Rowdy Ronda Rousey?

I'm not talking about a pervy thing based on only her looks, but her ability & skill, her charm and charisma, and yeah - I admit that she's rather good-looking as well... 

Not that I'd ever be able to do anything about it if the opportunity arose - she's fucking *terrifying*!

Other than that, Wonderboy is definitely my new favourite fighter - and he has conversations with me on twitter as well! _*swoon*_


----------



## iona (Aug 17, 2015)

gawkrodger said:


> From all accounts (including people I know who have trained for fair periods of time in his BJJ gym in Brazil and who have close dealings with him in the MMA world) he does suffer from some form of learning disability.



Yeah, I've heard the same from a guy who knows people who train with him.

E2a just noticed your avatar


----------



## Corax (Aug 17, 2015)

Anonymous1 said:


> What a treat 189 was. You can't not-like Mendes, top fighter and a class act.
> Aye, he took it on short notice with a very short camp but McGregor accepted a complete change of opponent and fighting style also.  They both deserve the credit.


Conor's 100% nailed on for the belt though IMO.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 1, 2015)

Strong rumours online that Fedor has signed with the UFC!

6-7 years too late, but still


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2015)

Think I'll give this season of Ultimate Fighter a go, since its a Europe vs USA one with Conor McGregor.


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 20, 2015)

gawkrodger said:


> Strong rumours online that Fedor has signed with the UFC!
> 
> 6-7 years too late, but still



Always looked like a blown-up light heavy to me, even during his prime years in Pride. Even if he got down to 205 now I'm not sure he'd have enough left in the tank to be competitive never mind challenge for the title. He's 40 next year ffs. Badly advised after he left Pride in my opinion.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Nov 15, 2015)

Spoiler: well I never!












And while we're on the subject wtf was up with Struve????


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 15, 2015)

Fucking mug beat my bet. Knew it was a bad idea backing him, especially against a top wrestler.


----------



## tendril (Nov 15, 2015)

ice-is-forming said:


> Spoiler: well I never!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: Video



Ronda looked visibly shocked to be getting punched in the face so easily and often. Great performance by Holly Holm


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 16, 2015)

A good day for women's MMA


----------



## AverageJoe (Nov 16, 2015)

That was  brutal. That kick...


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 16, 2015)

It was the straight left that did the biz, though. The kick just got her out of there.


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 16, 2015)

well, it was her footwork, right hooks, straight left and clinch work which did the job.

Excellent game plan (though unsurprising) executed to near perfection. I actually bet a mate a fiver on Holm winning (though I had by decision as I didn't think she had the power to put her away). Wish I'd put a proper bet on now.

Oh, and unless she's a complete imbecile (unless she runs off to Hollywood), Ronda will listen to her mother and change camps.


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 16, 2015)

And Joanna Jedrzejczyk continues to get closer to cementing her position as best fighter in the UFC


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 16, 2015)

Got an invite to MMA Tracker if anyone wants it.


----------



## Greebozz (Nov 17, 2015)

I'm getting so sick of the UFC these days.,  I think I'm changing because I'm finding the focus on violence tiresome.  And the baying mob moronic.  And even more sick of all the hype in the buildup..  The whole industry seems to be in denial about the dangers of head trauma.  They talk how it is safer than boxing but that's complete bollocks.  Quite often one sees a brave outclassed fighter beaten from pillar to post round after round.

The sport itself is poorly calibrated so the results often feel random and meaningless.  It seems to be that if you're a top talent then it's worthwhile but if you're anything less, a mid range fighter you you put just been mangled in the meat grinder and left penniless and with the possible long-term health problems.  The problem also is I get attached to the fighters and I start to care about them and it's really unpleasant to see them get smashed.  I enjoy the skill of martial arts but I'm conflicted because it's only popular because of the violence and it's not even that popular in the largest sporting sense.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 17, 2015)

Agree with a lot of what you've said, especially the expendability of fighters. Some of the pay slips involved for the lower-level (even mid-level) fighters are nothing short of obscene. No wonder Dana White gets so touchy about them when he's asked.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 19, 2015)

UFC fighter Jon Jones shows off dramatic powerlifting transformation


Jones looking like an absolute beat here. Be interesting to see if he holds onto his speed and explosiveness.


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 1, 2015)

Anyone for a perfect one punch KO?


----------



## tendril (Feb 24, 2016)

So RDA out on a broken foot, to be replaced with Stockton's finest, Nate Diaz for UFC 196. Headline just got interesting. Despite McGregor's sniper-like accuracy, I see Nate boxing him up for the full 5 rounds. Maybe even sub him for badness in the 5th. Should be a good one.


----------



## Bonesy (Feb 24, 2016)

Not entirely sure why McGregor took this fight, certainly not at 170. Diaz can create problems for anybody when he's on point and he's a natural 170 pounder (the 155 weight cut used to kill him by all accounts). He's also 3/1 for the win, which I may stick into a double as that strikes me as very good value. If he fights smart he could win.


----------



## tendril (Feb 24, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Not entirely sure why McGregor took this fight, certainly not at 170. Diaz can create problems for anybody when he's on point and he's a natural 170 pounder (the 155 weight cut used to kill him by all accounts). He's also 3/1 for the win, which I may stick into a double as that strikes me as very good value. If he fights smart he could win.


McGregor has been quite vocal about showing up to fight so it may be a smart move on his part... no belt implications. If he loses it is to a natural welter and he has saved the main card either way. If he wins then that will just spur him on for Lawler's belt.

And, yeah, a punt probably worth doing at 3-1. Which other match are you doubling with?


----------



## Bonesy (Feb 25, 2016)

Dunno, may not even be another UFC fight. Like the price of Tony Ferguson at 6/4 against Nurmagomedov the following month. The latter is undefeated but hasn't fought in a year and Ferguson is a horrible match-up for any fighter. Will probably just double it with an even money football bet.


----------



## tendril (Feb 28, 2016)

Spoiler: Bisping v Silva



Well that was a turn around, especially after the end of the 3rd round. Well done Bisping


----------



## Bonesy (Feb 29, 2016)

Sad to see how far Silva has fallen. Would have made mincemeat out of Bisping 4-5 years ago. Should just retire now.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2016)

ok so whos got who for this week end then?  out of loyalty and because win or lose he'll bring the fight. i've got money on nate to win by submission.


----------



## Bonesy (Mar 3, 2016)

I have McGregor on points AND Diaz by submission/decision. Cue McGregor first round KO.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 3, 2016)

It's a really weird one. Having the fight at welterweight makes it harder to predict. I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the entertainment


----------



## Bonesy (Mar 3, 2016)

I know what you mean. I'd be a lot more confident about Diaz winning if he'd had more than 2 weeks notice. I mean McGregor is making a HUGE jump weight-wise - 25 pounds is nudging two stone (of muscle). He has immense power though but reaching Diaz's jaw is another matter - add to that the guy can take a punch (only been stopped once, from a head kick) - and he poses massive questions for him.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 3, 2016)

Diaz may have only had two weeks notice but those boys keep themselves fight ready at all times. It's gonna be a great card *excited *


----------



## tendril (Mar 4, 2016)

Did anyone watch the pre-fight presser on fightpass? McGregor really going over the top, saying his involvement and stake in the company was 'neck & neck' and 'eye to eye', threatened to tear down the Mayweather picture on the outside of the MGM Grand Arena and all but saying the UFC should kiss his ass for being part of it, with himself being instrumental in trying to pass the billion dollar mark as a company.

There were at least 2 remarks from Nate about McGregor's training partners and that Nate's gym would dust his gym that were unrebutted . He actually looked lost for words but in an angry way. All the time, furiously chewing gum like he was on speed.

Then followd by a very intense staredown, Nate put his fist right up into McGregor's face before he had a chance to claim his ground, resulting in him slapping Nate's fist away. Cue tussel and chaos.

Both seem to be selling this fight. Hope it lives up to expectations and isn't a 13 second stoppage, by either parties (though I'd take a quick sub from Nate...)


----------



## Bonesy (Mar 5, 2016)

McGregor's spiel will only wash as long as he can back it up. When he first appeared on the scene I questioned just how much was gobshite and how much was talent talking. I think we can now honestly say that he is an immensely talented fighter who comes very close to crossing the line when it comes to hyping a fight (if he hasn't crossed it already). Sometimes I find him entertaining but other times I just find him tedious and over-the-top. I'm Irish myself but that doesn't really enter into it unless you are one of those blind, beard-sprouting clowns who started surfacing about 2 years ago. For the first time he's met someone who chats as much smack as he does and how he handles that before they get into the Octagon will be a key ingredient in the mix. I've always thought that the louder a fighter is the more psychologically shaky they are. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule - Ali, Mayweather etc - but generally the more shit they talk the more desperate they appear to be to convince themselves. McGregor has the power and technique to take anyone out but this is a massive jump in weight against a guy whose chin is as good as it gets. Unless he dispatches him in style or wins convincingly on points questions are going to be asked.


----------



## Bonesy (Mar 6, 2016)

After dominating the first round on the feet got swiftly submitted in the second. How he responds to this will determine how long he stays in the sport. Whoever let him agree to fighting Diaz at 170 needs sacking, hubris of the worst order.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 6, 2016)

oh yes! *punches air* I had money on Meisha Tate to win and on Nate to win by submission $400 up now


----------



## tendril (Mar 6, 2016)




----------



## tendril (Mar 6, 2016)

And well done Meisha, what a comeback.


----------



## tendril (Mar 6, 2016)

And the trolling starts


----------



## elbows (Mar 7, 2016)

I enjoyed that show, although I think I got as much entertainment value from Nate Diaz's response to the gazelle stuff as I did the fight


----------



## tendril (Apr 4, 2016)

So Mystic Mac is gonna have another go..... predictions?


----------



## Red Sky (Apr 10, 2016)

tendril said:


> So Mystic Mac is gonna have another go..... predictions?



It's difficult to see what he's going to bring that will make a difference. It's MMA so anything can happen but he caught Diaz flush a few times in the first round and didn't even look close to putting him away. It would be a proper turn up for the books if he outgrappled or submitted Diaz.


----------



## tendril (Apr 11, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> It's difficult to see what he's going to bring that will make a difference. It's MMA so anything can happen but he caught Diaz flush a few times in the first round and didn't even look close to putting him away. It would be a proper turn up for the books if he outgrappled or submitted Diaz.


The only way I see it going his way is if he out-points Diaz. He was out-pointing him in the first round last time but went single shot head-hunting.


----------



## bromley (Apr 11, 2016)

tendril said:


> So Mystic Mac is gonna have another go..... predictions?


First round submission, I don't need to say who to.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 11, 2016)

Only way he beats Diaz for me is on cuts. Won't KO him, won't submit him (lmao) and can't see him outpointing him given how badly he gassed and how crazy Diaz's cardio is. Terrible match-up again but I like Dominick Cruz's take on it - he thinks McGregor is being very canny as if he loses again it'll just be a case of 'Well, the jump in weight was too much for him' whereas if he dropped to 145 and lost to Edgar it would be a case of his bubble finally being burst etc.


----------



## Red Sky (Apr 12, 2016)

tendril said:


> The only way I see it going his way is if he out-points Diaz. He was out-pointing him in the first round last time but went single shot head-hunting.



Is it going to be three or five rounds? I wouldn't put it past the UFC to turn it into an Interim Bolloxweight Title fight.


----------



## tendril (Apr 12, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Is it going to be three or five rounds? I wouldn't put it past the UFC to turn it into an Interim Bolloxweight Title fight.


It'll be a five rounder


----------



## Red Sky (Apr 12, 2016)

tendril said:


> It'll be a five rounder



Cardio to Diaz then.


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 12, 2016)

Always a good idea to keep your right hand low against a head kick expert, not:

Fightstate


----------



## Virtual Blue (Apr 13, 2016)

mcgregor and diaz is a pointless fight. nothing is on the line.
diaz deserves a shot at RDA and Edgar should be fighting McGregor.

i've been watching UFC for years and so disappointed with this match-up. what happens IF by some fluke mcgregor beats diaz? will diaz get a rematch for bout number 3? hell no...mcgregor will fight RDA for the lightweight championship...it's a poor spectacle and white is mocking old school MMA fans in favour for the clueless irish following.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 13, 2016)

Well with the spanking that Rousey got McGregor (damage caused by his loss to Diaz aside) is the main cash cow he has left. His draw - hordes of Irish following him everywhere - is vital to the UFC coffers and White is canny enough to know this. I used to have a lot of time for White but the more I see and hear of him the more I think of him as a moneygrubbing gobshite. He pays the vast majority of his fighters an absolute pittance, to such a degree that most cannot even afford medical insurance. Just watch him he is asked any question which even vaguely relates to UFC salaries - he bristles immediately and adopts either an aggressive/evasive posture depending on who is interviewing him. There's clearly something very wrong there and he doesn't want the rest of the world knowing it. As for McGregor, he'll drop him like a hot stone when he eventually gets sparked and go back to blowing smoke up the ass of some up-and-comer who shows talent and is willing to toe the UFC line. For a man (White) who prides himself as being a 'stand-up guy' he's more than willing to bypass his principles if it keeps the money coming in, evidenced best by his continued support of Jon Jones who, despite being supremely talented, is an obvious piece of shit. Paul Daley got cut from the UFC for life for throwing a nothing punch after the bell - Jon Jones has had multiple incidents with the law outside the ring as well as failed drug tests etc yet continues to headline events. Go figure.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Apr 13, 2016)

yeah, his treatment of paul daley (good bloke) fucks me off too, total overreaction and how come he gave someone like palhares so many chances? total joke. white does have his favourites and he doesn't hide it. he's too involved with the badmouthing that goes in the promotion. i understand it's 'his' promotion but what the fuck? is this WWE or something?

as for McGregor, if they want to make a spectacle of him, why not McGregor vs Mark Henry or Big Show in a professional MMA bout? They did this kinda shit in Japanese promotions and it seemed to work. UFC is a circus anyway...


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 13, 2016)

Sure why not go the whole hog and dress him as a leprechaun and match him with Brock in a Hell in a Cell match with the winner getting a sack full of Lucky Charms.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Apr 13, 2016)

The death of Joao Carvalho has created a bit of a backlash to the sudden marketing-led rise of MMA as an "astroturf" mass spectator sport in Ireland. This could cause certain problems for the McGregor marketing machine.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 20, 2016)

See McGregor has ruled himself out of UFC 200 by refusing to return to The States to do the promotional stuff? Odd how he never had a problem with that before his loss. Positively thrived on all of that, grabbing belts and trying to humiliate his opponents. I think it's perfectly clear that Diaz has cracked his ego. He probably knows deep down that there's a VERY good chance Diaz will do the same to him again (if not worse) and that, combined with having to deal with an opponent who chats at least as much shit as he does during the promotion of a fight, is enough to make him think better of it. 'Thanks for the cheese' lol. He'll be bankrupt within a few years if he's as densely egotistical as I think he is.


----------



## tendril (Apr 20, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> See McGregor has ruled himself out of UFC 200 by refusing to return to The States to do the promotional stuff? Odd how he never had a problem with that before his loss. Positively thrived on all of that, grabbing belts and trying to humiliate his opponents. I think it's perfectly clear that Diaz has cracked his ego. He probably knows deep down that there's a VERY good chance Diaz will do the same to him again (if not worse) and that, combined with having to deal with an opponent who chats at least as much shit as he does during the promotion of a fight, is enough to make him think better of it. 'Thanks for the cheese' lol. He'll be bankrupt within a few years if he's as densely egotistical as I think he is.


Woah......

Hadn't been keeping an eye on events. Got shown up in his last outing, now talking of quitting. Not the sign of a true champ at all. I wonder if the reverence of the Irish fans will last if he really does quit.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 20, 2016)

He'll probably always have the braindead disciples following him but anyone who looks at it objectively (I'm Irish myself) can't help but be critical. I've no problem with smack talk at all - but when it becomes personal or tedious (Chael Sonnen is another major culprit) then you're sort of making your bed for future losses... I always got the impression that McGregor didn't believe half the shit he was spouting and that his Cunt Factor was reasonably manageable but his actions during and after the fight don't exactly cast a shining light on him.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Apr 20, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> See McGregor has ruled himself out of UFC 200 by refusing to return to The States to do the promotional stuff? Odd how he never had a problem with that before his loss. Positively thrived on all of that, grabbing belts and trying to humiliate his opponents. I think it's perfectly clear that Diaz has cracked his ego. He probably knows deep down that there's a VERY good chance Diaz will do the same to him again (if not worse) and that, combined with having to deal with an opponent who chats at least as much shit as he does during the promotion of a fight, is enough to make him think better of it. 'Thanks for the cheese' lol. He'll be bankrupt within a few years if he's as densely egotistical as I think he is.



hah, you beat me to it.
Update here Conor McGregor: Fighter withdrawn from UFC 200 amid retirement talk

What's for sure is that he won't be fighting Diaz at UFC 200.
Maybe he just woke up one day and said, 'I can't be fucked' - he isn't the greatest but at least he's one of the richest. He's probably earnt more than his Aldo and Edgar put together.

Did McGregor even want to fight Diaz in a rematch? I'm unsure. He was more quiet as usual in pre-fight, not his normal self. Think there's more to this than just the story.


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2016)

Virtual Blue said:


> Did McGregor even want to fight Diaz in a rematch? I'm unsure. He was more quiet as usual in pre-fight, not his normal self. Think there's more to this than just the story.



He wanted it so bad and at that stupid weight class that he ignored the advice of UFC and his own management and pushed hard to make the fight at the same weight.

I don't know what happened, but the stuff about not wanting to go to the press conference is just a UFC cover story, its really not likely to be the heart of the matter. It could be that back-stage negotiations over money, co-promotion etc has lead to this point, with both sides calling bluffs. I'd give it a week or two and see if anything shifts.

Those that seem to know what they are talking about don't think he can really afford to retire from fighting permanently - he has earnt silly money already but apparently he is really very good at spending money, not saving it.


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2016)

Also I continue to laugh at every UFC show where numerous competitors show up with bodies quite different to the ones they had before.

I wouldn't go as far as to say the sport will end up completely clean, but the UFC drug testing has already made a huge difference.

Not so in Bellator, where they continue to make fights based only on ratings potential, and even have Kimbo fighting at the O2 in the summer despite the fact he only just failed a drug test for steroids. Luckily for him he was busted in Texas where the rules are a joke so he only got a 90 day suspension.


----------



## tendril (Apr 20, 2016)

Do you think there is any chance it has to do with his friend dying after a bout recently? Perhaps pressure from his family to quit?


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2016)

tendril said:


> Do you think there is any chance it has to do with his friend dying after a bout recently? Perhaps pressure from his family to quit?



I don't know how friendly they were, I think the dead guys opponent was McGregors teammate, but he was certainly at the show and commented on the death.

UFC negotiations gone wrong still seems the most likely reason to me but I wouldn't rule out other factors such as the death and McGregors general state of mind after losing the Diaz fight.


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> He'll probably always have the braindead disciples following him but anyone who looks at it objectively (I'm Irish myself) can't help but be critical. I've no problem with smack talk at all - but when it becomes personal or tedious (Chael Sonnen is another major culprit) then you're sort of making your bed for future losses... I always got the impression that McGregor didn't believe half the shit he was spouting and that his Cunt Factor was reasonably manageable but his actions during and after the fight don't exactly cast a shining light on him.



I know this sort of thing winds people up but it really is one of the best ways to make millions of dollars in the sport. Draw in the casual fans and the general public and you can make a lot of money, even if it detracts from the underlying 'pure sport' and makes people come across like dicks.

I dont like McGregor, I do like what he did to reinvigorate UFC (along with Rousey) because they needed a new generation of stars and too many people on the roster had no idea how to talk up a fight.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 20, 2016)

I do get what you're saying and agree with it up to a point but there's been plenty of fighters in the past who would have me glued to the card just based on presence and pure talent. Anderson Silva was electric back in the day, ditto Belfort, Liddell, Penn etc. I don't recall many of those fighters spouting much shit. I just think McGregor failed to strike a comfortable balance between hyping fights and developing a personality fans can warm to. People aren't really going to take to you when you're sneering that you tip more than they earn. What's more, when you lose, you risk coming across as a massive cunt given what went before. He's obviously having trouble processing the loss which is understandable but his actions in pulling out isn't going to achieve anything really.


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> I do get what you're saying and agree with it up to a point but there's been plenty of fighters in the past who would have me glued to the card just based on presence and pure talent. Anderson Silva was electric back in the day, ditto Belfort, Liddell, Penn etc. I don't recall many of those fighters spouting much shit.



The UFC can be successful and put on good shows with talent like that. What they can't usually manage with that alone is the next level of cultural phenomenon that whips up mainstream excitement around a fight and generates tens or hundreds of millions in a single night.



> I just think McGregor failed to strike a comfortable balance between hyping fights and developing a personality fans can warm to. People aren't really going to take to you when you're sneering that you tip more than they earn. What's more, when you lose, you risk coming across as a massive cunt given what went before. He's obviously having trouble processing the loss which is understandable but his actions in pulling out isn't going to achieve anything really.



I'm not sure that developing a personality that fans can warm to is the agenda of every successful self-promoter. It depends what their starting point, e.g. normal personality, background and life/fighting story is before they turn up the volume. I see Conor as very much being in the Ali type camp - they don't need  everyone to love them, they are comfortable with attention of any sort including the negative.

It's also extremely hard to predict what words or events will actually damage a fighter. An example from recent years would be Rousey on the Ultimate Fighter - things happened on that show that made her look bad. But it didn't end up harming her, and she went on to capture the public imagination and make a lot of money.


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2016)

Lets say for example that he hasn't retired and that its some strong-arm tactic during negotiations. If thats the case and it becomes clear, especially if he eventually gets what he wants, he wont apologise for pretending to retire. Because a big part of his existing spiel is what a businessman he is and how he's going to make so many millions for himself and others, and show others how its done. He can frame almost anything in those terms if he chooses.


----------



## Red Sky (Apr 20, 2016)

Or he signs with Bellator?


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 21, 2016)

I don't buy the MMA


elbows said:


> The UFC can be successful and put on good shows with talent like that. What they can't usually manage with that alone is the next level of cultural phenomenon that whips up mainstream excitement around a fight and generates tens or hundreds of millions in a single night.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You don't have to be all things to all people in order to sell yourself, just be yourself and ramp up the spicier aspects of your personality and people will either take to you or they won't. I certainly wouldn't put him in the Ali bracket though given that dislike (outside of the 60s redneck element or maybe the Vietnam vets) isn't something I would attach to him. Ali said and did some pretty nasty stuff in his time - his treatment of Frazier (Uncle Tom) was appalling given that he'd actually helped him financially during his period of isolation after refusing the Draft - but always managed to keep the positives of his character at the forefront through a winning combination of talent and charm. McGregor certainly has the talent but few outside maybe his immediate family would say he displays anything close to charm. Brashness is his selling point and that's fair enough. But that's never going to make you a crossover fighter unless the public actually _like_ you. Ali was as brash as they come but had that, hence his global appeal. Mayweather is at least as talented but lacks the charm to make him that 'cultural phenomenon' that his talents probably deserve. Anyone who knows the sport will respect McGregor as a fighter and may even like his antics. Making that leap in the public consciousness in a positive way, however, was always unlikely given his fundamental gobshitery.


----------



## elbows (Apr 21, 2016)

Well we can agree to disagree on that one. Personally I think he already made it to that level, especially considering he isn't from the USA so the dynamic is slightly different compared to their 'home-grown' sports heros. But to go down in history as being at that level requires you to stay at that level for way longer than McGregor has so far, and right now there are certainly signs that he may have blown his chance to spend years as a bullet-proof champ. 

The funny thing for me is that I don't actually rate his talking skills as highly as some do - I only watched one episode of the ultimate fighter season that had him on it, but I thought it demonstrated that he wasn't half as quick-witted as he is made out to be. He had his lines but I didn't sense much spontaneous quick-thinking when it was required, there were awkward pauses and a lot of repetition.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 21, 2016)

Yeah, I've always thought that too - I've mentioned it in previous posts. It's like he has a 'brag script' to work from where he trots out pre-rehearsed lines but comes unstuck when he has to think on his feet. That's why I've never bought into his image as this 'quick-witted, call it as he sees it' phenom. He's a very gifted fighter trying to pretend to be something he's not imo.


----------



## gawkrodger (Apr 21, 2016)

McGregor statement

Conor McGregor releases statement: I am paid to fight. I am not yet paid to promote


----------



## tendril (Apr 21, 2016)

Whatever is going on it has certainly gotten people talking


----------



## elbows (Apr 21, 2016)

Ha, I was just listening to a show that detailed what a knob he has tended to be to the media in the past - e.g. turning up very late deliberately to make some sort of shit point about control. 

So that statement doesn't surprise me in some ways, in others I suppose it does. Anyway I won't be dishing out too much sympathy for either side because I'm not exactly in love with UFC and the people who own & run it either.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 25, 2016)

So the McGregor fight looks like it's back on  So much for White's 'hardline' persona, guess that falls by the wayside when faced with the prospect of losing hard cash. McGregor will be even more insufferable now that the organisation has bent over and opened its cheeks for him.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Apr 25, 2016)

is it back on? confirmed?

was it me but was the jon jones fight the same as all of his other fights? he looked pretty much the normal jones to me.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 25, 2016)

Well the noises coming out the McGregor camp would suggest it is... White will probably trying to put his usual spin on it, saying it was all a /'misunderstanding', how he always liked and respected McGregor, how they ironed out the technicalities for the good of the sport etc.

Didn't see the Jon jones fight, mate in work said he didn't look great.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 25, 2016)

I usually like to watch Jon Jones, but have to admit to dozing off somewhere around the start of the third round and waking up to the arm being raised and Jones apologizing for his lack Lustre performance.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 25, 2016)

Jon Jones fight wasn't the greatest....

Mighty Mouse looked fantastic though and the Barboza-Petis fight was a good watch (some horrible bruises on Petis...).


----------



## ice-is-forming (Apr 25, 2016)

Ooo yes! That inside thigh of petis! Ow.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Apr 25, 2016)

yeah great fight and so was rodreguiez and fili.

Anyone saw Benny getting smashed in Bellator. I was like wtf and realised he's fighting at a heavier than normal weight.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 25, 2016)

Barboza's kicks are brutal (Terry Etim?) but I've always thought he was a bit chinny. Think RDA would starch him if they met.


----------



## elbows (Apr 25, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> So the McGregor fight looks like it's back on  So much for White's 'hardline' persona, guess that falls by the wayside when faced with the prospect of losing hard cash. McGregor will be even more insufferable now that the organisation has bent over and opened its cheeks for him.



Without knowing the full details of what was being haggled over behind the scenes, its hard to say they've rolled over. It is suspected that one of the reasons they made a stand this time is that Conor always does this shit and in the past they have always rolled over. But now we don't know if they subsequently bottled it or if McGregors side stepped back from some red line they'd crossed.


----------



## elbows (Apr 25, 2016)

Diaz in the press conference made me laugh the other day - the UFC had their 'Diaz will fight someone else' script but Diaz said if he didn't get McGregor then he'd go on holiday


----------



## Virtual Blue (Apr 25, 2016)

I use to hate both the Diaz brothers - particularly when Nick messed up Gomi in Pride.

Now, I can't get enough of them!


----------



## elbows (Apr 26, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> So the McGregor fight looks like it's back on  So much for White's 'hardline' persona, guess that falls by the wayside when faced with the prospect of losing hard cash. McGregor will be even more insufferable now that the organisation has bent over and opened its cheeks for him.



So it turns out as of yesterday he wasn't really back on the show, and just decided to tweet that he was in a shit attempt to build pressure on UFC.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 26, 2016)

Yeah, was just about to post that lol. I don't think the fact that he's just lost - and pretty embarrassingly at that - has really permeated his cranium yet. When you lose you're generally not in as string a position as you were before you did. That's kinda how it works.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 26, 2016)

Virtual Blue said:


> I use to hate both the Diaz brothers - particularly when Nick messed up Gomi in Pride.
> 
> Now, I can't get enough of them!



I'm not convinced the Diaz brothers aren't operating on some cosmic level of comedy which is light years above us all. Some of the shit they come out with - Nate in particular - is absolute gold. The line about the gazelle he directed at McGregor - 'Gazelle?! This is America motherfucker, no-one knows what a gazelle is' was sheer genius.


----------



## elbows (Apr 26, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Yeah, was just about to post that lol. I don't think the fact that he's just lost - and pretty embarrassingly at that - has really permeated his cranium yet. When you lose you're generally not in as string a position as you were before you did. That's kinda how it works.



I don't think that how it always works. Look at the ratings Kimbo Slice can still get for Bellator despite his entire pro MMA career being just awful in the cage. 

McGregor isn't bullet proof and losses will eventually harm him. But in terms of ability to draw pay-per-view buys he probably isn't wrong to think he is still at a peak. I think he remains in a better position than most UFC fighters to bargain with the company. But there are limits and he clearly went over one of them.

Hard to say more than that without knowing the real behind the scenes negotiating detail, but we know of at least one UFC red line from the past. At one time they really did want Fedor, but his management wanted co-promotion and UFC clearly didn't want to set that precedent. McGregor may not be asking for that this time but its been touted in the past as something he might push for, and its certainly easy to imagine that UFC would sacrifice one of their biggest stars appearing on one of their biggest shows (they really care about the 200 thing like they did with 100) if it was something that significant.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 27, 2016)

elbows said:


> I don't think that how it always works. Look at the ratings Kimbo Slice can still get for Bellator despite his entire pro MMA career being just awful in the cage.
> 
> McGregor isn't bullet proof and losses will eventually harm him. But in terms of ability to draw pay-per-view buys he probably isn't wrong to think he is still at a peak. I think he remains in a better position than most UFC fighters to bargain with the company. But there are limits and he clearly went over one of them.
> 
> Hard to say more than that without knowing the real behind the scenes negotiating detail, but we know of at least one UFC red line from the past. At one time they really did want Fedor, but his management wanted co-promotion and UFC clearly didn't want to set that precedent. McGregor may not be asking for that this time but its been touted in the past as something he might push for, and its certainly easy to imagine that UFC would sacrifice one of their biggest stars appearing on one of their biggest shows (they really care about the 200 thing like they did with 100) if it was something that significant.



Are you seriously comparing McGregor to Kimbo? Kimbo was a freakshow, and freakshows will always have a certain draw. MvGregor, on the other hand, is a world class athlete. You can't compare the two at all, on any level. There's no doubt McGregor still holds a pile of chips with the UFC but he has damaged his 'brand' badly not only with his loss but also the shit he has said and done in the aftermath.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 27, 2016)

The Savage Truth: Irish Standoff

Good article on the double standard being applied to McGregor here by White...


----------



## elbows (Apr 27, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Are you seriously comparing McGregor to Kimbo? Kimbo was a freakshow, and freakshows will always have a certain draw. MvGregor, on the other hand, is a world class athlete. You can't compare the two at all, on any level. There's no doubt McGregor still holds a pile of chips with the UFC but he has damaged his 'brand' badly not only with his loss but also the shit he has said and done in the aftermath.



I can compare them on some levels.

But yeah, my point was that Conor losing one fight didnt see him plummeting from the peak. I completely agree with you that his stupid antics have exposed him this time, although I still dont know to what extent it will harm him in the long run - need to see if and when the eventual reconcilliation with UFC takes place and whether McGregor continues to blow it by thinking he is more intelligent than he actually is - exposed nicely so far!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Apr 27, 2016)

White stood his ground and he had to. He's not fighting in 200, end of.

Personally, I'm hoping for a GSP comeback. 
His final fights were shit but I miss the guy. Class champion.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 27, 2016)

elbows said:


> I can compare them on some levels.
> 
> But yeah, my point was that Conor losing one fight didnt see him plummeting from the peak. I completely agree with you that his stupid antics have exposed him this time, although I still dont know to what extent it will harm him in the long run - need to see if and when the eventual reconcilliation with UFC takes place and whether McGregor continues to blow it by thinking he is more intelligent than he actually is - exposed nicely so far!




I didn't say it plummeted though? I said his position wasn't as strong, which is a fair enough comment I think. Certainly in the light of his promotional histrionics. I have a funny feeling that this whole episode will really come back to haunt him.

On the upside, Cormier v Jones II has been pencilled in as the headline event. Think DC stands a better chance this time around personally...


----------



## elbows (Apr 27, 2016)

A fair few peoples who saw the latest Jones fight thought DC missed his big chance there, since Jones performance was lacking something and there is an assumption it might be 'ring rust' that will be gone by Jones next fight. Not so sure myself.

Anyway haha the fight is properly inked in now not just pencilled so I bet McGregors brain is cooking right now. First he found his limits in a fight and now with his 'business' antics too.


----------



## Greebozz (Apr 27, 2016)

I've not read this thread in ages and it's great, have been hamster wheeling for weeks on the MMA forums, read some of the best analysis here though from Bonesy and Elbows, et al.  Good job.


----------



## tendril (May 18, 2016)




----------



## Virtual Blue (May 18, 2016)

tendril said:


>




Good find.


----------



## Bonesy (May 19, 2016)

Hoping in a sick way this mug's ego is deluded enough to step into the ring with Mayweather. The latter's no puncher but he stops him pretty early if he wants to. Or he may just give him an extended beating. Either way, he has literally zero chance.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 5, 2016)

Well done to Bisping - first ever British UFC champ!

Never imagined I'd be writing that sentence in 2016!


----------



## Bonesy (Jun 6, 2016)

Haha! Couldn't believe the result when my mate texted me. Rockhold an absolute beast at 185, thought he would annihilate Bisping. Fair play to him though, caught him with a cracking left, then another, and the stoppage couldn't be disputed. Rockhold has come out of this VERY badly - unbelievably bitter and classless, the very thing he accuses Bisping of. That said, I think both Weidman and Jacare are horrible match-ups for the latter. Still did well to win it though. First British UFC champ.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 6, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Haha! Couldn't believe the result when my mate texted me. Rockhold an absolute beast at 185, thought he would annihilate Bisping. Fair play to him though, caught him with a cracking left, then another, and the stoppage couldn't be disputed. Rockhold has come out of this VERY badly - unbelievably bitter and classless, the very thing he accuses Bisping of. That said, I think both Weidman and Jacare are horrible match-ups for the latter. Still did well to win it though. First British UFC champ.



Rockhold was a bit of a twat in the lead up to this but he did manage to keep some dignity in his post-fight interview.
Bisping is an odd one. He's actually a like-able character now. 

Fav fight of the night was Hendo/ Lombard. 
The dude is 45. He should quit before his body does. Great fighter who I hate seeing get knocked out.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 6, 2016)

My son bought himself a new Xbox 1,courtesy of Dan Henderson, Bisping and sports bet this week


----------



## Bonesy (Jun 6, 2016)

Virtual Blue said:


> Rockhold was a bit of a twat in the lead up to this but he did manage to keep some dignity in his post-fight interview.
> Bisping is an odd one. He's actually a like-able character now.



Dunno about that mate, calling your opponent a 'maggot', saying you want to 'fucking kill' him and refusing to shake his hand is pretty shitty...


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 6, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Dunno about that mate, calling your opponent a 'maggot', saying you want to 'fucking kill' him and refusing to shake his hand is pretty shitty...



I thought he was okay in post interview - said he underestimated him and all that.
I don't like Rockhold anyway - don't like fighters who love themselves too much.


----------



## Bonesy (Jun 6, 2016)

I like Rockhold's style, he does everything brilliantly and always comes to fight. But he IS unbearably smug and saying that he merely 'overcommitted' and that's what caused him to get sparked is nonsense. He took Bisping for a mug and got caught. That's it. That said, if they fight again he'll probably destroy him.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 6, 2016)

Overcommitted. Underestimated.
He was going for brute power and got countered. 
He's a tremendous athlete but I can't stand him.


----------



## tendril (Jun 7, 2016)

Kimbo Slice dead at 42


----------



## The Boy (Jun 7, 2016)

Sad news.  Although I've discovered as a result of that news that bellator appears to be something of a circus.  Kimbo slice, Dada 5000, ken shamrock and Royce Gracie all on the same bill...


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 7, 2016)

No fucking way!!


----------



## Corax (Jun 7, 2016)

The Boy said:


> Sad news.  Although I've discovered as a result of that news that bellator appears to be something of a circus.  Kimbo slice, Dada 5000, ken shamrock and Royce Gracie all on the same bill...


Have you checked the date on that card?


----------



## The Boy (Jun 7, 2016)

Corax said:


> Have you checked the date on that card?



Feb 2016.  Why?


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 7, 2016)

...well, always said Kimbo needed to work on his cardio...not the best fighter but 42 is too young.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 7, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Dunno about that mate, calling your opponent a 'maggot', saying you want to 'fucking kill' him and refusing to shake his hand is pretty shitty...



You're right - I was originally referring to the post-fight interview in the ring.
Just saw the post-fight conference and Luc doesn't come across well. Bisping shouldn't give him a title shot.


----------



## Corax (Jun 7, 2016)

The Boy said:


> Feb 2016.  Why?


Because it sounds like something from 1993!


----------



## Bonesy (Jun 7, 2016)

In other news, I see Ariel Helwani has had his accreditation removed and has been banned for life form the UFC for having the temerity to 'break' Brock Lesnar's return to the Octagon. Two other journalists have also been blacklisted too apparently. Just another example of White's repulsive drive for control.


----------



## Corax (Jun 7, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> In other news, I see Ariel Helwani has had his accreditation removed and has been banned for life form the UFC for having the temerity to 'break' Brock Lesnar's return to the Octagon. Two other journalists have also been blacklisted too apparently. Just another example of White's repulsive drive for control.


Except... it was Fertita that banned him, and that decision has now been reversed.


----------



## Bonesy (Jun 8, 2016)

I was basing it on Helwani's own account of the incident but it matters not who banned him really, more that he was banned in the first place. Reversing the ban doesn't do anything other than highlight how much of an overreaction it was to begin with. It'd be a bit like Arsene Wenger banning Henry Winter for 'breaking' the news of our latest Congolian left back signing. I doubt it's a change of heart either, more a tactical move given the general outrage from the press and public. 'How long will the ban last?'... 'As long as I'm here'   lmao


----------



## Corax (Jun 8, 2016)

It got people talking about it; I'd say that was mission accomplished from Zuffa's PoV.


----------



## Bonesy (Jun 8, 2016)

LOL, no. It just makes them look hysterical for doing it in the first place and then weak for capitulating 3 days later. UFC generate plenty of headlines, they don't need the likes of this to guarantee copy.


----------



## elbows (Jun 19, 2016)

They are scumbags for that stuff with Helwani, and they also sound likely to sell the company for more than 4 billion dollars very soon. I'll wait till the actual deal emerges to see what the final sale price is but it rather underlines how they've underpaid their fighters over the years.


----------



## Bonesy (Jul 7, 2016)

Jones caught doping I see. Apparently Dana White is 'undecided' about his future? REALLY Dana? So that's testing positive for cocaine, a hit-and-run involving drugs and a pregnant woman, brawling at press conferences and now this? And he still hasn't cut him? Jones is a fuck up but this guy is a fakely sanctimonious piece of shit.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jul 7, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Jones caught doping I see. Apparently Dana White is 'undecided' about his future? REALLY Dana? So that's testing positive for cocaine, a hit-and-run involving drugs and a pregnant woman, brawling at press conferences and now this? And he still hasn't cut him? Jones is a fuck up but this guy is a fakely sanctimonious piece of shit.



What a fucking failure. It's true then, he's ball bag without the balls.


----------



## The Boy (Jul 7, 2016)

when did they introduce OOC tests?  I always assumed the intelligence test in combat sports were that little bit more lax - shortly before the fight, scheduled in advance etc - hence why Sonnen getting pinged was so funy.


----------



## tendril (Jul 12, 2016)

well I enjoyed UFC 200 in the main. Great performances by Joe Lauzon, Gegard Mousasi and Amanda Nunes. Thought the DC/Silva fight was a bit pants. Not sure why Silva took it really. 2 days notice, no training


----------



## elbows (Jul 14, 2016)

The Boy said:


> when did they introduce OOC tests?  I always assumed the intelligence test in combat sports were that little bit more lax - shortly before the fight, scheduled in advance etc - hence why Sonnen getting pinged was so funy.



A year ago, when they did a deal for USADA to do UFC testing. But they took it slowly to start with so I'd say its only been 6-9 months since we started to get some failures and a hell of a lot of bodys started to change shape on tv.


----------



## Bonesy (Jul 21, 2016)

Think Tyron Woodley at 15/8 is good value against Lawler.


----------



## Bonesy (Aug 1, 2016)




----------



## gawkrodger (Aug 12, 2016)

massive news, and long overdue. 

Home - Professional Fighters Association


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## Virtual Blue (Aug 21, 2016)

...just finished watching Diaz/ Mcgregor rematch.

Good fight but
Please...no number 3.


----------



## gawkrodger (Aug 21, 2016)

great fight - I has it 48-47 for McGregor


----------



## Mogden (Aug 21, 2016)

Is there anywhere I can watch it now? I don't have UFC TV. Completely understand a PM with a link if needed. Text commentary writeups are not doing it for me.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Aug 22, 2016)

Mogden said:


> Is there anywhere I can watch it now? I don't have UFC TV. Completely understand a PM with a link if needed. Text commentary writeups are not doing it for me.



There were a couple of FB feeds that had replays for the whole fight...


----------



## Bonesy (Aug 23, 2016)

Virtual Blue said:


> ...just finished watching Diaz/ Mcgregor rematch.
> 
> Good fight but
> Please...no number 3.


 
Why not? I thought it was a cracking fight. Rubber match makes sense given Diaz's victory in the first. Personally I had McGregor a pretty clear winner, 2 rounds or so. He put him down clean 3 times and whilst I don't think Diaz was seriously hurt, those rounds should have been scored accordingly. Especially when you consider points are given for takedowns which often amount to nothing and may only last a matter of seconds.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Aug 23, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Why not? I thought it was a cracking fight. Rubber match makes sense given Diaz's victory in the first. Personally I had McGregor a pretty clear winner, 2 rounds or so. He put him down clean 3 times and whilst I don't think Diaz was seriously hurt, those rounds should have been scored accordingly. Especially when you consider points are given for takedowns which often amount to nothing and may only last a matter of seconds.



I'd prefer to watch Dos Anjos/ Alvarez vs McGregor/ Diaz. It's a bigger universe than just these two.
If they do fight number 3, make it next year or the year after.


----------



## Bonesy (Aug 24, 2016)

Think the McGregor v Alvarez fight would be a cracker, but can not sure if that'll be made straight away. If it isn't then I could see the Diaz fight at 155.


----------



## bromley (Aug 26, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Why not? I thought it was a cracking fight. Rubber match makes sense given Diaz's victory in the first. Personally I had McGregor a pretty clear winner, 2 rounds or so. He put him down clean 3 times and whilst I don't think Diaz was seriously hurt, those rounds should have been scored accordingly. Especially when you consider points are given for takedowns which often amount to nothing and may only last a matter of seconds.


No way can you give that fight by 2 rounds to someone! 

Would prefer to see Aldo V McGregor 2. Joe Rogan wants to see Nick Diaz v McGregor! I doubt Nick will fight again but there would be big money in fighting McGregor...


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 26, 2016)

Found this, exhibition bout Fedor vs Aoki. Best heavyweight vs best lightweight. Poetry.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 1, 2016)

CM Punk predictions anyone?


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 2, 2016)

he loses


----------



## elbows (Sep 2, 2016)

Those who seem to be in the know say that he is pretty shit at MMA, or at least nowhere near UFC level. But then again his opponent wasn't exactly chosen to be a UFC-level of competition for him. And anything can happen in any given fight so I don't like making predictions. But in this case I will certainly be surprised if he looks good.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 3, 2016)

All the footage so far released really doesn't look good.

I'd be happy putting in some of my amateur MMA lads in against him, and would feel confident they would win.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 3, 2016)

also, his wrestling is very shit and he's only a beginner in jujitsu.
he seems like a nice guy, hope he doesn't get too hurt


----------



## bromley (Sep 5, 2016)

Virtual Blue said:


> CM Punk predictions anyone?


He gets stopped in the first round, stupid circus like side show. It's actually offensive that he has been given a match on a PPV card.


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2016)

bromley said:


> He gets stopped in the first round, stupid circus like side show. It's actually offensive that he has been given a match on a PPV card.



Apparently in at least one interview he has given in the buildup to the fight, he said that he would take managing to do the fight in any way properly as a victory.

I suspect that back when the deal was done, he and the other parties got rather carried away with what might be possible in his evolution as a MMA fighter given time and sheer willpower. I've always been comfortable with the wacky sideshow aspect of fight promotion, it just goes with the territory, but I think UFC were angling for something a little more credible than what everyone now expects back when they signed him.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 9, 2016)

to be fair, he looked 10 times better in the last episode of that CM Punk show which the UFC has put out (and I've actually quite enjoyed).

He still loses


----------



## bromley (Sep 12, 2016)

Hopefully if punk does continue a mma career it won't be at UFC level. What a joke that fight was.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 12, 2016)

it was a weird event all round!


----------



## tendril (Sep 12, 2016)

gawkrodger said:


> it was a weird event all round!


that Werdum/Brown fight was well dodgy. Illegal time out, nearly a fight at the announcement with the cornermen. Bruce having to take charge and admopnish the ref.


----------



## Bonesy (Sep 14, 2016)

bromley said:


> No way can you give that fight by 2 rounds to someone!




I gave McGregor the first 2 rounds, the second by 10-8 as he had him on his hoop twice and was badly outclassing him on the feet, the third was Diaz, fourth McGregor and I gave Diaz the last. I think people are making far too much out of Diaz's performance personally. I rate him very highly and tipped him to win both fights but the rematch wasn't really _that_ close for me. McGregor's striking in those opening two rounds was on another level and he stuffed all of Diaz's takedown attempts bar the one in the dying seconds. Diaz is talking like he got stiffed out of a decision, personally I thought it was closer than it should have been.


----------



## bromley (Sep 15, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> I gave McGregor the first 2 rounds, the second by 10-8 as he had him on his hoop twice and was badly outclassing him on the feet, the third was Diaz, fourth McGregor and I gave Diaz the last. I think people are making far too much out of Diaz's performance personally. I rate him very highly and tipped him to win both fights but the rematch wasn't really _that_ close for me. McGregor's striking in those opening two rounds was on another level and he stuffed all of Diaz's takedown attempts bar the one in the dying seconds. Diaz is talking like he got stiffed out of a decision, personally I thought it was closer than it should have been.


You've scored it like a boxing match. Diaz went down twice in the second. The second time very suspect but neither time did McGregor capitalise, letting Diaz up and refusing to gauge with him. Diaz also ended the round strong. A 10-9 round and the one people debate on who won. The closest to a 10-8 was the third and credit to McGregor for clearly winning the 4th after the beating in the 3rd.


----------



## Bonesy (Sep 15, 2016)

I scored it according to the quality and accuracy of his striking and the way he controlled the flow of the round. Diaz never got near him. I disagree that the second knockdown was 'very suspect', it was a good shot and Diaz never goes down easily, ever. As for 'refusing to engage' when he was on the mat, I call that smart fighting. Diaz's bjj is different class, the one area of the fight where McGregor could be easily outclassed. Besides, McGregor was never going to stop him on the mat, best hope (and a slim one at that) was to keep it on the feet and that's exactly what he did. Watching a fight is a very subjective thing, I've watched it twice now and that's my honest take on it.


----------



## bromley (Sep 29, 2016)

Anyone else bored with McGreggor's press conferences?


----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 29, 2016)

bromley said:


> Anyone else bored with McGreggor's press conferences?



Not yet but he does need to change his "bum life to riches line."
He is underestimating Alvarez - didn't he see the Petits' fight?


----------



## bromley (Sep 30, 2016)

Virtual Blue said:


> Not yet but he does need to change his "bum life to riches line."
> He is underestimating Alvarez - didn't he see the Petits' fight?


I think McGreggor is overrated/lucky and this may be the fight that exposes him. I thought the same about the Aldo fight, obviously got proven wrong but where's the rematch? No wonder Aldo wants out. It's disappointing how Dana lets McGreggor call the shots, he's succeeded in killing the featherweight division.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 30, 2016)

bromley said:


> I think McGreggor is overrated/lucky and this may be the fight that exposes him. I thought the same about the Aldo fight, obviously got proven wrong but where's the rematch? No wonder Aldo wants out. It's disappointing how Dana lets McGreggor call the shots, he's succeeded in killing the featherweight division.



Let's face it, the feather division died a long time ago.
Things get more interesting at Lightweight and ridiculously challenging at Welterweight.

It's a business.
Aldo missed a big pay cheque.
He is able to fight another guy but doesn't want to.
Deep down he knows he will forever be in Mcgregor's shadow as the 13 second guy. He has no chance of redemption and that must hurt.

Aldo should retire. He's a proven champ among MMA fans.

Dana called the fight that will generate the most revenue.

The guy I feel most sorry for is Khabib.
What the hell must he do to get a title shot?


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 30, 2016)

to be fair re: Khabib, he's fought once in nearly 30 months!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 2, 2016)

gawkrodger said:


> to be fair re: Khabib, he's fought once in nearly 30 months!



But Mcgregor's 2nd opponent is THE title shot.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 2, 2016)

"Every weekend, I want every Asian to watch their superheroes on television and be rooting for them," ONE Chairman Chatri Sityodtong tells the International Business Times UK.

Amen.

ONE reminds me of Pride.
Hope it comes together.


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 3, 2016)

I don't think McGregor is overrated at all - dusted Poirier in a round  and he'd never been stopped, beat Holloway with a blown ACL, sparked Mendes who had only ever lost to Aldo and then there was the Aldo fight itself... He may not be everyone's cup of tea - and isn't mine - but his fighting credentials can't really be called into question. If he wasn't such a gobshite my bet would be there'd be a far greater appreciation of what he's actually done.


----------



## bromley (Oct 3, 2016)

Something I forgot, Aldo turned down the McGreggor rematch after RDA pulled out. Obviously it was a late notice but still!



Virtual Blue said:


> But Mcgregor's 2nd opponent is THE title shot.


1st!



Bonesy said:


> I don't think McGregor is overrated at all - dusted Poirier in a round  and he'd never been stopped, beat Holloway with a blown ACL, sparked Mendes who had only ever lost to Aldo and then there was the Aldo fight itself... He may not be everyone's cup of tea - and isn't mine - but his fighting credentials can't really be called into question. If he wasn't such a gobshite my bet would be there'd be a far greater appreciation of what he's actually done.


Er, he got stopped by Diaz! Mendes was a late call up and Connor got very lucky in that fight IMO.

Most annoying thing about McGreggor, Bisping is defending his title against Henderson on Saturday in Manchester and there's no mention of it above.


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 3, 2016)

bromley said:


> Something I forgot, Aldo turned down the McGreggor rematch after RDA pulled out. Obviously it was a late notice but still!
> 
> 1st!
> 
> ...



Er, where did I say he hadn't got stopped by Diaz? Some all-time great fighters got stopped earlier in their UFC careers than McGregor and still went on to do great things. Plus he was fighting 2 divisions above his championship weight against a top-notch Welter. How many fighters have done that?

And if you're talking about lucky then you'd have to file Bisping's win over Rockhold in that category. If they fought again I venture Rockhold would stop him brutally.


----------



## bromley (Oct 3, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Er, where did I say he hadn't got stopped by Diaz? Some all-time great fighters got stopped earlier in their UFC careers than McGregor and still went on to do great things. Plus he was fighting 2 divisions above his championship weight against a top-notch Welter. How many fighters have done that?
> 
> And if you're talking about lucky then you'd have to file Bisping's win over Rockhold in that category. If they fought again I venture Rockhold would stop him brutally.


When you said he's never been stopped. Nate Diaz isn't a top notch welter!

I make you right if a Rockhold Bisping rematch occurs.


----------



## The Boy (Oct 3, 2016)

I think Bonesy meant poirier hadnt been stopped before his fight with McGregor?


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 3, 2016)

I said Poirier had never been stopped.


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 3, 2016)

By 'stopped' I meant via strikes btw, not submitted.


----------



## bromley (Oct 3, 2016)

Had a feeling I'd read that wrong! Submission is a stoppage.


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 4, 2016)

Stopped via strikes then


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 5, 2016)

bromley vs Bonsey.

Who will win?


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 6, 2016)

Bonesy via verbal submission due to strikes.


----------



## bromley (Oct 6, 2016)

Aye, he's already put me to sleep with his nonsense.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 6, 2016)

Is it only me who finds Cris Cyborg attractive?

Exciting times ahead.

Boxing queen Braekhus wants to fight Cyborg in 2017


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 6, 2016)

bromley said:


> Aye, he's already put me to sleep with his nonsense.






Calm down dear.


----------



## bromley (Oct 7, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Calm down dear.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 8, 2016)

woho! my friend, the tarantula, just won his fight on Brace, it was on fight pass. He's just coming off back to back losses so this'll really cheer him up


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 9, 2016)

What a great main event!


----------



## bromley (Oct 10, 2016)

Indeed. Henderson is still a machine at 46. I had it one round to Bisping due to finishing on his feet in the first round, otherwise I would have scored that 10-8 and a draw. Rockhold wins the rematch with ease.


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 10, 2016)

Yet to see it but from what I've read Bisping squeaked it. Backed him to win on points, not sure why he was running his mouth about knocking Henderson 'the fuck out', that was never going to happen.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 10, 2016)

Hendo is amazing at 46 - I hope I'll be as strong and quick when I hit that age.

Rockhold wins with ease? Shit happens man. 
Bisping has alot of spirit and heart. That sometimes can make a good fighter great.


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 10, 2016)

Bisping's win over Rockhold has been described as the biggest shock in MMA history and whilst I don't necessarily agree with that, it WAS a massive shock. Rockhold can say it was 'lucky' all he wants but Bisping threw the punch with intent, it connected, and he stopped him. That said, I still make Rockhold the far superior fighter and would expect him to stop him early if they fought again.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 10, 2016)

Bonesy said:


> Bisping's win over Rockhold has been described as the biggest shock in MMA history and whilst I don't necessarily agree with that, it WAS a massive shock. Rockhold can say it was 'lucky' all he wants but Bisping threw the punch with intent, it connected, and he stopped him. That said, I still make Rockhold the far superior fighter and would expect him to stop him early if they fought again.



They said the same with Weidman/ Silva Anderson, GSP/ Serra etc - it's all hype and like I said, Bisping has heart and never should be underestimated.  Rockhold himself should know better (remember his fight against Belfort?).


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 10, 2016)

This is a very good pro-fight, excellent grappling (sambo vs BJJ) from a non-UFC promotion.


----------



## Bonesy (Oct 10, 2016)

Rockhold's only glaring weakness is his ego. He's been stopped 3 times now but I can't see that ushering in any humility. Always seems pissed too, even after victories.


----------



## Bakunin (Oct 25, 2016)

One from the, ahem, less restrained UFC era:


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 1, 2016)

Stumbled across this video of Khabib.
That throw on 7 seconds, the kid has some serious skills.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 1, 2016)

Bakunin said:


> One from the, ahem, less restrained UFC era:




When UFC was more fun.
Kung Fu vs Boxing.
BJJ vs Muay Thai 
Etc.

Keeping it simple.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 7, 2016)

Unbelievable card on this weekend. may be the best I have seen in the UFC. Think Alvarez v McGregor has all the makings of a classic, ditto the Woodley v Thompson match-up. Throw into the mix Khabib v Johnson, Cerrone v Gastelum and Romero v Weidman and you have an absolutely stacked card. Am still very split on the co-main events, could make a case for all those involved. Think if McGregor fights smart he could break down Alvarez like Cerrone did but if he trades with him and remains static he could be stopped. In the other fight I think Woodley could surprise people. Ellenberger had Wonderboy hurt in their fight before he collapsed and Woodley hits even harder and is  a lot more explosive. Just hope the fights live up to the billing.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 7, 2016)

Tony Ferguson vs RDA UFC FIght Night 98 - one of the best fights for a long while.
I really believe Ferguson and Khabib are the best challengers for the belt.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 7, 2016)

Backed Ferguson to win but have yet to see the fight. Very well-rounded fighter, will surely get a title shot now.


----------



## LiamO (Nov 13, 2016)

bromley said:


> I think McGreggor is overrated/lucky and this may be the fight that exposes him. I thought the same about the Aldo fight, *obviously got proven wrong*...



Hope you didn't go to the Bookies this time either.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 13, 2016)

Alvarez was lucky against RDA and today, was outclassed in every way.
If you look at his body language, he was too hesitant in everything he did.

McGregor fought brilliantly mind.


----------



## bromley (Nov 13, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Hope you didn't go to the Bookies this time either.


Ha, cute! No I kept away from betting on it, mma is very unpredictable. Would like to see Conor defeat a belt, hopefully the LW against Ferguson.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 15, 2016)

Thought the card didn't really live up to expectations... Best fight by far was the Woodley bout - had him dominating the 1st and 4th with one even and Wonderboy taking the other two. Not exactly sure how the 4th was scored a 10-8 round by only one judge, Woodley absolutely battered him that round and should have stopped him as he had him very badly hurt early in it. Surely damage inflicted has to come into it? Lighting your opponent up with hurtful punches and flooring them has to take precedence over workrate for me. Wonderboy's face was a mess for much of the fight, Woodley looked like he didn't have a scratch on him. Think he can justly feel himself hard-done by.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 15, 2016)

I liked Weidman vs Romero. Jesus Christ, that flying knee 

Khabib and Johnson was the most enjoyable. Khabib is a real clever grappler and eats up anyone thrown in front of him. How the hell is someone suppose to defend against this?


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 15, 2016)

Aye Khabib looked mightily impressive once he took Johnson down. Did look like he got rattled by a shot before he did that though, so if he fought McGregor (who hits a hell of a lot harder than Johnson) I think it'd be a fascinating match-up.


----------



## bromley (Nov 27, 2016)




----------



## Bonesy (Nov 28, 2016)

Was never going to drop back down to 145 imo, doubt it was a case of Whire putting his foot down. He wouldn't say shit to McGregor if his mouth was full of it.


----------



## bromley (Nov 28, 2016)

Indeed, was know for a while but he kept hold of it for the photo opportunity.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 1, 2016)

This is a bit like a union in the UFC

Five UFC stars launch fighters association

Very good for the sport. Hope we can do something like this in the UK.


----------



## elbows (Dec 23, 2016)

Virtual Blue said:


> This is a bit like a union in the UFC
> 
> Five UFC stars launch fighters association
> 
> Very good for the sport. Hope we can do something like this in the UK.



I've only been half paying attention to this story but I think I heard that the involvement of Bjorn Rebney is already poisoning this particular attempt.

Meanwhile more fiascos relating to Cris Cyborg. They are creating a new weight division for her to fight at, but it seems like the weight is still too low for her. She told them she couldnt fight on the show they wanted to debut the division on, because she couldnt cut that much weight in time, so missed out and they had to book a different fight instead for that division. Then she publicly moaned about UFC making her cut weight and about missing the opportunity to have that fight. But when she signed with them it was with the promise that she could get down to an even lower weight within a certain timeframe. And now she seems to have failed an out-of-competition drug test - and it is being said that this drug was being used as part of her treatment for health issues caused by a nightmare weigh-cut she had for her previous fight. That defence will only go so far though because the substance in question is on the banned list and you have to tell the relevant authorities if you are taking it and apply for an exemption if there is a decent medical explanation, and she didnt do that.

The situation is even more stupid because on the same show that detailed her nightmare weight cut and how such things jeopardise her health, she was shown power-lifting. No wonder she cant make the weight she signed up for when she is still addicted to being so big in the muscle department! I dont think its an exaggeration to say that she has cost herself millions of dollars in income by failing to suspend that side of her life for a year or two and get down to a weight to fight Rhonda Rousey during the period where that was a 'dream fight'. I'm sure the UFC would still like to use her but there remains a lack of women big enough to fight Cyborg at a weight that Cyborg can currently reach.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 30, 2016)

Ufc 207 starting in two hours!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 31, 2016)

omgosh! 



Spoiler: thats 



$1000 won so far on Rousey losing!



and 



Spoiler



half that on Cody winning today



on a roll!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 31, 2016)

Just woke up.
I normally stay away from spoilers but so wanted Ronda to lose.
And she did 

Will catch up after training session.


----------



## baldrick (Dec 31, 2016)

Why did you want her to lose? Admittedly, I was pretty certain she would. Nunes is very impressive. She had some things to say about Rousey's coach after, I don't know what the story is there but it seems fair comment.

Enjoyed the Dillashaw fight also.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 1, 2017)

baldrick said:


> Why did you want her to lose? Admittedly, I was pretty certain she would. Nunes is very impressive. She had some things to say about Rousey's coach after, I don't know what the story is there but it seems fair comment.



She lacks humility.
The way she behaves, in and out of the ring - she's like a spoilt child.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 2, 2017)




----------



## ice-is-forming (Jan 2, 2017)

The fact that Rhonda lost in 48 seconds is mad! wtf has she been doing for the last year! she had no stand up defence skills what so ever, even CM Punk lasted longer 

Maybe shes  been on holiday for a year and just took the fight for the $$$


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 2, 2017)

ice-is-forming said:


> The fact that Rhonda lost in 48 seconds is mad! wtf has she been doing for the last year! she had no stand up defence skills what so ever, even CM Punk lasted longer
> 
> Maybe shes  been on holiday for a year and just took the fight for the $$$



It does seem that way doesn't it?
Listening to Edmond's instructions during the fight, it appears the game plan was to duck and avoid Nunes' striking until she tired. Are you fucking serious?



Amanda Nunes is an amazing all rounder (awesome body too).


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 2, 2017)

Accurate.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 3, 2017)

Rousey losing like that was a cherry-on-top moment. She's let her mask slip a few times - recounting how she beat up her boyfriend like it was no big deal - so this was overdue. Brutally exposed as a fighter once she stepped outside her armbar comfort zone.


----------



## elbows (Jan 7, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> Listening to Edmond's instructions during the fight, it appears the game plan was to duck and avoid Nunes' striking until she tired. Are you fucking serious?



I guess there are good reasons why Rouseys mum criticised her trainer publicly before Rousey lost her title. He is shit, but for reasons unknown she stuck with him and the result is another loss.

As for Rouseys personality, it was on full display in that series of the Ultimate Fighter she did, and seemed to indicate quite a profound personality disorder.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 9, 2017)

She could have had the personality of Ted Bundy and Dana White would have been cheerleading her. Whilst she was winning anyway.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 9, 2017)

There's no way they can hype her on $3million per fight. No sane fight fan will pay for that.
She's done for and like every other fighter, will need to prove her abilities - but I doubt she has that fire in her now.

With the Roadhouse movie canned, she'll probably be involved with the Fast and Furious/ The Expendables Franchise. After that, she'll be in WWE and then Celebrity Big Brother 2025.


----------



## bromley (Jan 9, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> There's no way they can hype her on $3million per fight. No sane fight fan will pay for that.
> She's done for and like every other fighter, will need to prove her abilities - but I doubt she has that fire in her now.
> 
> With the Roadhouse movie canned, she'll probably be involved with the Fast and Furious/ The Expendables Franchise. After that, she'll be in WWE and then Celebrity Big Brother 2025.


WWE won't be interested, she's a has been now (in their eyes). They can't book someone who looks weak in the UFC to look strong in WWE. Only route in for her would be to become an actual wrestler, her start power has diminished.


----------



## elbows (Jan 9, 2017)

bromley said:


> WWE won't be interested, she's a has been now (in their eyes). They can't book someone who looks weak in the UFC to look strong in WWE. Only route in for her would be to become an actual wrestler, her start power has diminished.



I believe this is misjudging exactly what they are looking for.  She has been a huge star who still managed to draw impressive numbers for her last fight despite doing almost zero publicity for it. And she reaches a somewhat different demographic, one they will be keen to tap. They will use her if they get the chance, just as they used Tyson despite his great fighting days being behind him at the time.

Quite how quickly her star fades is a bit hard to predict but I'm sure WWE would take it now and even once it has faded greatly, just for less money. Right now I'm sure she is still a very hot commodity for them.

As for the logic of booking someone strong in the pro wrestling word of WWE when they've been smashed in MMA, again I dont think its that clearcut. The entire relationship between the imagined world of pro wrestling and that of mma is very wacky at the best of times anyway. And especially so in this WWE era where it is tacitly acknowledged that the wrestling is not real by the fact that people like Lesnar get to do special matches that incorporate mma-like stuff for added 'realism' and the deliberate promotion of such fights as being something different and special. They would still have done that with Lesnar even if his UFC comeback had been a loss, and they completely ignore parts of the real UFC story that dont suit them, such as Lesnars drug test failure. Having said that, I believe Stephanie recently mocked how long C M Punk lasted in his UFC fight when WWE fans were winding her up by chanting his name. They pick and choose what reality they choose to accept and incorporate into their shows!


----------



## bromley (Jan 11, 2017)

elbows said:


> I believe this is misjudging exactly what they are looking for.  She has been a huge star who still managed to draw impressive numbers for her last fight despite doing almost zero publicity for it. And she reaches a somewhat different demographic, one they will be keen to tap. They will use her if they get the chance, just as they used Tyson despite his great fighting days being behind him at the time.
> 
> Quite how quickly her star fades is a bit hard to predict but I'm sure WWE would take it now and even once it has faded greatly, just for less money. Right now I'm sure she is still a very hot commodity for them.
> 
> As for the logic of booking someone strong in the pro wrestling word of WWE when they've been smashed in MMA, again I dont think its that clearcut. The entire relationship between the imagined world of pro wrestling and that of mma is very wacky at the best of times anyway. And especially so in this WWE era where it is tacitly acknowledged that the wrestling is not real by the fact that people like Lesnar get to do special matches that incorporate mma-like stuff for added 'realism' and the deliberate promotion of such fights as being something different and special. They would still have done that with Lesnar even if his UFC comeback had been a loss, and they completely ignore parts of the real UFC story that dont suit them, such as Lesnars drug test failure. Having said that, I believe Stephanie recently mocked how long C M Punk lasted in his UFC fight when WWE fans were winding her up by chanting his name. They pick and choose what reality they choose to accept and incorporate into their shows!


Interesting point, and one from someone who knows his stuff about wrestling. 

I believe Tyson was different, pretty sure his run was just after being suspended from biting Holyfield which made him easy to promote as the world's most dangerous man. I can't see the drawing power anymore of Rousey. I could be wrong.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 12, 2017)

Something very wrong about comparing Mike Tyson to Ronda Rousey on any level...


----------



## elbows (Jan 12, 2017)

Why?


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 12, 2017)

I remember when people use to say that Tyson was overrated.
How if he was around the golden era of the 1970s, he would had faced a difficult challenge in sustaining any sort of unbeaten run.

Ronda is 12-2.
That isn't bad for a 29 year old. If she gets her head down, she could be the Demian Maia of women's MMA. Her division is still fresh and evolving.

And she's a crap actress.
WWE is still a possibility...

As Mayweather said, she's unbeaten in 2017


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 12, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> I remember when people use to say that Tyson was overrated.
> How if he was around the golden era of the 1970s, he would had faced a difficult challenge in sustaining any sort of unbeaten run.



Anyone who seriously claims that was talking bollocks. Tyson had a short prime, about 4 years (86-89) but during that time he was the best heavyweight I've seen. The Golden Era of the 70s produced some great fighters but Tyson would have demolished most of them. Only Ali with his uncanny ability to figure out other fighters' styles would seriously have pushed him in my opinion.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 12, 2017)

Bonesy said:


> Anyone who seriously claims that was talking bollocks. Tyson had a short prime, about 4 years (86-89) but during that time he was the best heavyweight I've seen. The Golden Era of the 70s produced some great fighters but Tyson would have demolished most of them. Only Ali with his uncanny ability to figure out other fighters' styles would seriously have pushed him in my opinion.



Now, we're going into boxing territory - hell, I love both sports!
You reckon Tyson would had beaten up Foreman, Frazier, Norton? And if he was around bang on 1970s, Patterson?
I don't know - boxing was starting to get bit shit when Tyson was in his prime.


----------



## bromley (Jan 12, 2017)

Tyson's prime is one of the most overrated things in sport. Would Foreman, Frazier and Norton have lose to James "Buster" Douglas during their prime? The only name on Tyson's resume of that time is Micheal Spinks (Tyson's bet performance IMO) and a lot of experts say he was on the way down prior to that fight. Like Larry Holmes and the Klitschkos I think Tyson suffered from not having any proper competition in the division during his time, but unlike them his legacy hasn't been affect as a result. David Price was knocking out bums on at the start of his career too.

I personally rate Lewis above Tyson.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 12, 2017)

He would have obliterated Patterson... He was never a natural heavyweight imo. Read a quality book on him in the summer, fascinating man of great complexity.

I'd have tipped him to beat any of the fighters you mentioned. True the heavyweight division wasn't great when he was about but you can only beat what's put in front of you and he did that comprehensively. And the 80s were a golden age for boxing, some all-time greats peaked during that decade - Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Salvador Sanchez, Holyfield (as cruiser), Khaosai Galaxy etc. Puts the current lack of depth to shame.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 12, 2017)




----------



## Bonesy (Jan 12, 2017)

bromley said:


> Tyson's prime is one of the most overrated things in sport. Would Foreman, Frazier and Norton have lose to James "Buster" Douglas during their prime? The only name on Tyson's resume of that time is Micheal Spinks (Tyson's bet performance IMO) and a lot of experts say he was on the way down prior to that fight. Like Larry Holmes and the Klitschkos I think Tyson suffered from not having any proper competition in the division during his time, but unlike them his legacy hasn't been affect as a result. David Price was knocking out bums on at the start of his career too.
> 
> I personally rate Lewis above Tyson.



Tyson didn't lose to Buster Douglas in his prime though did he? He was an absolute mess when they fought - confirmed by numerous sources - hadn't trained, strung out on coke, no endswell ffs... I wouldn't even dignify the David Price reference as it's retarded. As for Lewis, you may need to remember he got sparked cold by Hasim Rahman when he was at his peak and he was certainly no better than Douglas.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 12, 2017)

Tyson vs Buster Douglas - one of the best fights I can remember.

Both men were going through emotional turmoil and fought like beasts.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 12, 2017)

It was a cracking fight aye. People tend to forget that due to the huge nature of the upset. Douglas always had talent and certainly all the physical tools. Yes it was a massive shock but when you have a motivated and determined fighter like that who isn't afraid of his opponent you always have a chance.


----------



## bromley (Jan 12, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> Tyson vs Buster Douglas - one of the best fights I can remember.
> 
> Both men were going through emotional turmoil and fought like beasts.


----------



## bromley (Jan 12, 2017)

Bonesy said:


> Tyson didn't lose to Buster Douglas in his prime though did he? He was an absolute mess when they fought - confirmed by numerous sources - hadn't trained, strung out on coke, no endswell ffs... I wouldn't even dignify the David Price reference as it's retarded. As for Lewis, you may need to remember he got sparked cold by Hasim Rahman when he was at his peak and he was certainly no better than Douglas.


Lewis obliterated him in the rematch. Change David Price to Anthony Joshua then.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 12, 2017)

A motivated and ready Tyson would have done the same to Douglas. The 90s version of Tyson doesn't begin to compare to the 80s one when he had D'Amato, Jacobs and Rooney behind him.


----------



## bromley (Jan 12, 2017)

Bonesy said:


> A motivated and ready Tyson would have done the same to Douglas. The 90s version of Tyson doesn't begin to compare to the 80s one when he had D'Amato, Jacobs and Rooney behind him.


 That's Dom King for you.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 12, 2017)

Yeah, hateful. Ruined countless fighters.


----------



## tendril (Jan 13, 2017)




----------



## Bonesy (Jan 16, 2017)

BJ Penn needs to retire before he gets seriously hurt.


----------



## tendril (Jan 16, 2017)

Bonesy said:


> BJ Penn needs to retire before he gets seriously hurt.


Everyone said that after his last fight. UFC shouldn't have signed him again.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 17, 2017)

Amazing when you consider how strong Dana White's principles are.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 17, 2017)

BJ Penn is a warrior. The guy lives, eats, sleeps fighting. If he wasn't fighting in the UFC, he would have ended up in Bellator or that piece of shit promotion, Rizin.

It's hard for UFC to close the door on him like that.
He deserved a shot. He still has some fight left.

In many ways, I feel the same for Takanori Gomi - I love the guy. Some great memories watching him. 
But now, it's depressing.


----------



## elbows (Jan 17, 2017)

Ah yes Rizin, where stupid matches can be booked that would often not be cleared by athletics commissions in the USA, and where drug cheats can go.


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 17, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> BJ Penn is a warrior. The guy lives, eats, sleeps fighting. If he wasn't fighting in the UFC, he would have ended up in Bellator or that piece of shit promotion, Rizin.
> 
> It's hard for UFC to close the door on him like that.
> He deserved a shot. He still has some fight left.
> ...



How did he deserve a shot? He hasn't won a fight in over 6 years. Penn was an absolute beast in the early years of the UFC but the game has moved on massively and he's nudging 40 now. The organisation should have a duty of care to their fighters and stop mismatches like this from happening. I mean the guy is absolutely delusional as to where he stands in the MMA landscape - he was talking about making a run for the title before the fight. He should be saved from himself as much as anything.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 17, 2017)

Bonesy said:


> How did he deserve a shot? He hasn't won a fight in over 6 years. Penn was an absolute beast in the early years of the UFC but the game has moved on massively and he's nudging 40 now. The organisation should have a duty of care to their fighters and stop mismatches like this from happening. I mean the guy is absolutely delusional as to where he stands in the MMA landscape - he was talking about making a run for the title before the fight. He should be saved from himself as much as anything.



There are some fighters I don't want to see hurt no more - Gomi, Sakuraba, Belfort, Evans (he in particular).

BJ Penn was the UFC light weight division in the 2000s. The guy obviously doesn't want to let go of that legacy.
He been out for 2.5-3 years and the promoters throw him against a top 10 and 10-1 fighter.

BJ came out of retirement. He will find a way to fight if he wants to. He doesn't want to quit - what can the UFC promotion do (particularly when his fan base is the UFC)?  Not give him a chance and he finds his way to a dodgy Japanese gig?


----------



## Bonesy (Jan 17, 2017)

What BJ does outside of the UFC is beyond their control. What he does within it is. True they can't stop him fighting in some fourth rate organisation but they can stop him fighting under their banner where any beating receives maximum exposure. The people around BJ should be telling him he's finished as even a mid-level performer never mind contender.


----------



## Bonesy (Feb 2, 2017)

I see Jones is being lined up for an immediate title shot when he returns


----------



## bromley (Feb 3, 2017)

Anyone going to UFC London?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 12, 2017)

#calloutmayweather#


----------



## Bonesy (Feb 27, 2017)

Not exactly sure why Woodley is 6/5 in the rematch with Thompson... I actually thought he won the first fight and if he gets after it from the start I'd fancy him to stop him. If he gives him time and distance it could be a different story though.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Feb 27, 2017)

bromley said:


> Anyone going to UFC London?



Not a chance.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 5, 2017)

If you're not watching 209 you should be! The prelims are on atm

That last fight!!!!!!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 5, 2017)

This one, she gonna get smashed! Can't watch...

And....


----------



## elbows (Oct 30, 2017)

Any GSP Bisping predictions?

It's an intriguing fight, and anything can happen in a fight, but on this occasion I can't resist going for 'GSP will be something of a shadow of his former self'. I hope he isn't loads worse than he was last time he fought because that won't be much fun, but I have serious reservations about this comeback.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 31, 2017)

elbows said:


> Any GSP Bisping predictions?
> 
> It's an intriguing fight, and anything can happen in a fight, but on this occasion I can't resist going for 'GSP will be something of a shadow of his former self'. I hope he isn't loads worse than he was last time he fought because that won't be much fun, but I have serious reservations about this comeback.



Yeah I think you’re right.
It’s going to be shit IMO.
Technically, GSP’s grappling is superior and I think his game plan will be to dominate Bisping with takedowns/ closing the distance - no chance he will stand toe-to-toe  (that version of GSP disappeared sometime after the Hughes fight).

I’ve grown to admire Bisping.
You know deep down he doesn’t mean half of the shit he says.

Both aren’t finishers.
It’s a fight I don’t care much about.
Great...GSP is back but the UFC has changed.

I predict it will be a bit like watching the newer Silva and Machida - painful.

I’m looking for forward for the Rose and Joanna fight.
Both women are in their prime and Rose makes me wanna cry, I fucking love her spirit.
And technically, her jits makes me wanna choke out a a stranger, my boss, the neighbour’s grandad...she is inspirational.


----------



## bromley (Oct 31, 2017)

Bisping
Garbrandt
Jedrzejczyk

Incredible card.


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> I’ve grown to admire Bisping.
> You know deep down he doesn’t mean half of the shit he says.



As a fan of pro-wrestling who started watching UFC 10 years ago, I always took his shit talk as being for promo purposes. Difference then was that few took him that seriously as a fighter, and certainly he improved a lot since I first saw him and earnt a lot more respect along the way.



> It’s a fight I don’t care much about.
> Great...GSP is back but the UFC has changed.
> 
> I predict it will be a bit like watching the newer Silva and Machida - painful.



Main reason I care is that I'm a bit stuck in the past due to not watching UFC cards on a regular basis in the last few years.

I may as well go out on a limb and predict that one of GSPs core attributes, such as speed or grappling strength, will have withered to the point that the fight won't go the distance.

Machidas chin has gone completely, which makes his recent fights especially hard to watch.



> I’m looking for forward for the Rose and Joanna fight.
> Both women are in their prime and Rose makes me wanna cry, I fucking love her spirit.
> And technically, her jits makes me wanna choke out a a stranger, my boss, the neighbour’s grandad...she is inspirational.



A great example of where I have become totally out of touch with current UFC. Will try to get back on the case with the upcoming show.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 1, 2017)

Have backed GSP @ 5/6. Think he'll have to much game for Bisping in spite of all the time out. Let's not forget he squeaked past a retiring Dan Henderson and could easily have been stopped v Silva...  Sonnen's comments on the fight are very interesting, he says he's trained with both fighters and GSP is easily the stronger fighter, despite the weight disparity. Bisping could surprise me - he certainly did v Rockhold - but I just think GSP will grind out the win.


----------



## elbows (Nov 5, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> I’m looking for forward for the Rose and Joanna fight.
> Both women are in their prime and Rose makes me wanna cry, I fucking love her spirit.
> And technically, her jits makes me wanna choke out a a stranger, my boss, the neighbour’s grandad...she is inspirational.





Spoiler



I know what you mean now, not that I got to see her jits thanks to her shocking first round victory via strikes! Emotional for all the right reasons


----------



## elbows (Nov 5, 2017)

elbows said:


> I may as well go out on a limb and predict that one of GSPs core attributes, such as speed or grappling strength, will have withered to the point that the fight won't go the distance.





Spoiler



Its a good thing I don't bet on sports 

GSP looked very good in some important ways, which more than made up for any areas he's declined. He didn't seem rusty, though I guess questions will remain about his stamina at that weight.


----------



## bromley (Nov 5, 2017)

elbows said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Its a good thing you don't bet? Thank god I didn't! 


What a show!


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 5, 2017)

best event in ages


----------



## tendril (Nov 5, 2017)

I won £136 for a £5 stake on a treble on the 3 championships


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 6, 2017)

Bisping brutalised in the end... Never really had the feel of a true champ for me. Always felt he was the level just below the truly elite.


----------



## elbows (Nov 6, 2017)

Bonesy said:


> Bisping brutalised in the end... Never really had the feel of a true champ for me. Always felt he was the level just below the truly elite.



He needed a victory against GSP in order to change that perception. Obviously didn't happen, although he looked good from the bottom where his elbows made a mess of GSPs face.

Although GSP was not the withered mess I predicted, he still wasn't exactly amazing at that weight class and the amount of muscle he had put on looked potentially counterproductive. Looked beatable.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 6, 2017)

I don't think he'll stick to the weight, pretty much said as much afterwards. Looked a fair bit bigger but I thought his jab was excellent. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if he retired again.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 6, 2017)

That said, White is already talking about GSP staying at 185 and fighting Whittaker...


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 7, 2017)

elbows said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I know what you mean now, not that I got to see her jits thanks to her shocking first round victory via strikes! Emotional for all the right reasons



Dude, I watched that fight 3 times and cried every time.
Love her man - she's great martial artist...


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 7, 2017)

Bonesy said:


> Bisping brutalised in the end... Never really had the feel of a true champ for me. Always felt he was the level just below the truly elite.



'brutalised?' hardly call it a beating - he caught GSP quite few times.
also, Bisping always look fucked from his fights, he's fucked if he's losing or winning.

i don't dislike him. he's a good fighter and plays the heel well. his mma record speaks for itself and i can think of much 'lesser' champions of late.

but GSP looked on form man...his superman punch/ jab - i remember throwing those when i first got into the sport...it was good to have two ole timers fighting so well.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 7, 2017)

I'd classify choking someone to the point of unconsciousness being 'brutalised' yes. The only real damage Bisping inflicted was with the elbows from his guard. He was being routinely picked off on the feet by the jab of GSP. I thought the gulf in class was pretty marked personally.


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 17, 2017)

Taking the Gastelum fight at short notice I see... Not the best idea imo but shows that one thing Bisping doesn't lack is balls and the willingness to fight.


----------



## bromley (Nov 17, 2017)

Bonesy said:


> Taking the Gastelum fight at short notice I see... Not the best idea imo but shows that one thing Bisping doesn't lack is balls and the willingness to fight.


Over a year since the last Lightweight title fight...


----------



## Bonesy (Nov 25, 2017)

Cracking finish by Gastleum. Horrible opponent for Bisping and his camp, he says his next fight will be his last. Hope he sticks to that.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 31, 2017)

I've got $20 on Holly. Just because ...


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 19, 2018)

...in case anyone was in doubt.

Report: Yoel Romero Sues Tainted Supplement Maker Over 2016 Positive USADA Test


----------



## elbows (Jan 19, 2018)

Virtual Blue said:


> ...in case anyone was in doubt.
> 
> Report: Yoel Romero Sues Tainted Supplement Maker Over 2016 Positive USADA Test



Since 'tainted supplements' are also a crap excuse used by deliberate cheats, its always good when tests can demonstrate a genuinely tainted supplement, and I dont blame him for suing them.

Mind you at this point I feel that pro fighters should just try to avoid supplements altogether. It's not worth the risk and a lot of the 'rewards' from supplements are only psychological anyway.

Overall I'm reasonably impressed with the USADA regime, body shapes in UFC have certainly changed notably in many instances in recent years. I'm sure stuff still goes on but at least there have been enough failures that the message is understood and people have to at least be less gratuitous about cheating.

Weight-cutting/weight class issues still bother me a lot in terms of fighters health, a better system is needed. The latest high-profile example:

Uriah Hall suffered ‘mini-seizure’ and ‘slight heart attack’ ahead of UFC St Louis



> Uriah Hall revealed that he suffered a “mini-seizure” and “slight heart attack” in his first public statement since his hospitalization due to weight-cutting issues ahead of UFC St Louis last Sunday.





> The doctor even said that even if I had made weight I probably would have died the next day because my body just wasn’t having it. Like I said, I’m never going to ignore my health again.
> 
> “I did it for the fans, I did it to get paid and I did it to make sure I showed up, but at the end of the day your life is not worth it. My safety comes first.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 19, 2018)

elbows said:


> Since 'tainted supplements' are also a crap excuse used by deliberate cheats, its always good when tests can demonstrate a genuinely tainted supplement, and I dont blame him for suing them.
> 
> Mind you at this point I feel that pro fighters should just try to avoid supplements altogether. It's not worth the risk and a lot of the 'rewards' from supplements are only psychological anyway.
> 
> ...



Yeah totally. Romero isn’t a Sonnen or Jones...the guy was honourable athlete before MMA. He’s a freak, doesn’t need it.
The weight cutting part - I don’t understand why they don’t follow IBJFF/ADCC rules where fighters get weighed on the day. Would make more sense.

I do wonder why it’s brought to attention now when such practices have existed in boxing for decades...

Dana White questions Uriah Hall’s preparation, weight-cutting habits

I was under impression Uriah Hall was a bit like Johny Hendricks - ie, doesn’t give a shit about diet, intake etc. Didn’t know he had a seizure. Jesus Christ...


----------



## elbows (Jan 21, 2018)

Virtual Blue said:


> ...in case anyone was in doubt.
> 
> Report: Yoel Romero Sues Tainted Supplement Maker Over 2016 Positive USADA Test



And here is an example of the opposite of that, when you find your crap excuses and dodgy evidence doesnt go well with USADA and your ban ends up increasing to 4 years!

UFC bantamweight Francisco Rivera suspended four years by USADA



> In a statement issued Friday by the UFC’s drug testing partner, USADA “concluded that the clenbuterol levels detected in [Rivera’s] sample were inconsistent with what could be expected from meat contamination,” and that Rivera was “unable to provide independently verifiable evidence to support his claim that he had traveled to Northern Mexico and ingested meat in the days leading up to the relevant sample collection.” As a result, Rivera submitted his case to an independent arbitrator.
> 
> However, prior to the arbitration hearing, a USADA investigation “revealed that several pieces of evidence presented by Rivera to USADA and the arbitrator had been falsified to support the athlete’s claims that the substance had originated from contaminated meat in Mexico.”


----------



## elbows (Jan 22, 2018)

Virtual Blue said:


> The weight cutting part - I don’t understand why they don’t follow IBJFF/ADCC rules where fighters get weighed on the day. Would make more sense.



I believe the reason that simple approach isnt taken is because fighters often dehydrate to meet weight, and the idea that being punched in the head when dehydrated is not good was taken into account heavily.

Proper solutions to this stuff are probably a bit complicated - I know the changed the rules a year or two ago but arguably it hasnt helped there have been plenty of weight-cutting related weight issues since.

One of the big underlying problems is that the weight-class you are in can make quite a competitive advantage or disadvantage. So the temptation to cut unhealthy amounts is always there, self-sustained by what a fighters peers are up to.


----------



## tendril (Jan 22, 2018)

Spoiler: UFC 220



Ngannou with the understatement of the year so far:

"I think I underestimate him a little bit"


----------



## Bonesy (Mar 6, 2018)

Brutal KO of Edgar by Ortiz, kid looked absolutely sensational. As well as his fighting style I like the serene energy he exudes, always seems in control, in and out of the cage. Could be a real force at 145, potential champion in my opinion.


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2018)

Weight-cutting issues get some attention from the BBC:

Paige Vanzant: UFC gave me an eating disorder


----------



## bromley (Mar 19, 2018)

elbows said:


> Weight-cutting issues get some attention from the BBC:
> 
> Paige Vanzant: UFC gave me an eating disorder


Paige was at the O2 on Saturday and boy did she look good!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Mar 19, 2018)

bromley said:


> Paige was at the O2 on Saturday and boy did she look good!



...but that's all she's known for unfortunately.
She should let the fighting do the talking.

Cyborg and Joanna have had it tough too, like almost all of the other athletes.
But we forget that and remember them for their fights.

I can't remember any of Paige's fights except she's cute.


----------



## bromley (Mar 20, 2018)

Virtual Blue said:


> ...but that's all she's known for unfortunately.
> She should let the fighting do the talking.
> 
> Cyborg and Joanna have had it tough too, like almost all of the other athletes.
> ...


I remember her fights, but yes probably due her looks. She is more than a good looking girl but does stand out from the other non-champion levels fighters because of it.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Mar 23, 2018)

bromley said:


> I remember her fights, but yes probably due her looks. She is more than a good looking girl but does stand out from the other non-champion levels fighters because of it.



Her most memorable fight was against rose She was totally outclassed but showed alot of potential and heart. Let's see how she will develop in the next few years.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Mar 23, 2018)

If you get a chance try and watch HEX 14 from Melbourne today. Some great fights! Really entertaining  my mate (fight four) won his fight in the second round, his opponent didn't tap...just went to sleep


----------



## bromley (Mar 23, 2018)

Virtual Blue said:


> Her most memorable fight was against rose She was totally outclassed but showed alot of potential and heart. Let's see how she will develop in the next few years.


NamaJunas?


----------



## Virtual Blue (Mar 23, 2018)

bromley said:


> NamaJunas?




aye...when she was caught in RNC...

good fight that one.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 23, 2018)

Where do you watch MMA?

I just seem to end up watching old fights on youtube as its not on telebox.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Mar 23, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Where do you watch MMA?
> 
> I just seem to end up watching old fights on youtube as its not on telebox.



UFC/ BMMA/ UCMMA - BT Sports and Virgin TV - I subscribe unfortunately.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Mar 23, 2018)

Lots of YouTube vids showing Wing Chun fighters getting their arses handed.

The whole point of JKD was that it made Wing Chun functional and you still get traditionalists pretending Bruce Lee never happened.

Love this vid...


----------



## gawkrodger (Apr 6, 2018)

Well Conor's completely lost it


----------



## bromley (Apr 6, 2018)

Hopefully won't be seeing him again.


----------



## elbows (Apr 6, 2018)

I'd been hearing for a while that he'd gone well beyond the realms of hinged behaviour and it wasnt hard to imagine given his personality to start with. Now we have a proper incident to ram this home. edit - oh there was that incident in another MMA company wherre to entered the ring and did something and it wasnt all that long ago but I managed to forget about it and the detail.

I'm under the impression that years ago he sought Ric Flairs approval to rip off and recycle aspects of Flairs character/gimmick. Flair is another who struggled to separate his actual self from his on-screen character, failing to turn the 'personality volume' back down to a more normal level when not on screen. And using the excesses of his character to justify all sorts of extremely selfish and indulgent behaviour over many decades. And thats pro wrestling where the victories arent real in a sports sense and the separation between tv character and real person should be more obviously understood by the performers. And where the millions are there to be made by some over a long period, not in the insanely large lumps that McGregor has managed to receive in recent years. So I suppose its not surprising if McGregor managed to self-destruct in a much shorter timeframe.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 6, 2018)

No idea whether Magregor will serve any actual time over this, but afterwards you can guess how it will play out. He'll launch his own competitor to the UFC and we'll have multiple shit show circuses. Obnoxious cunt.


----------



## twentythreedom (Apr 6, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Obnoxious cunt.


This


----------



## bemused (Apr 6, 2018)

Wilf said:


> No idea whether Magregor will serve any actual time over this, but afterwards you can guess how it will play out. He'll launch his own competitor to the UFC and we'll have multiple shit show circuses. Obnoxious cunt.



He's going to be sued into the dirt.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 6, 2018)

The idea that he's an outright cunt, was ramped up even more when the story mentioned the attack was carried out by him and his _entourage_.


----------



## bemused (Apr 6, 2018)

Wilf said:


> The idea that he's an outright cunt, was ramped up even more when the story mentioned the attack was carried out by him and his _entourage_.



He injured professional athletes, he's fucked.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 6, 2018)

The reporting said it was a bus full of fighters (for the next ufc show presumably). Surprised they didn't get off the bus and 'engage' with Magregor's army. That's not some macho nonsense saying they should have done, just that it could have ended up a lot worse (if they had).


----------



## Wilf (Apr 6, 2018)

bemused said:


> He injured professional athletes, he's fucked.


I'm just reading through the story - presumably the injury was from flying glass i.e. nobody was directly fighting? Not mitigating what he's done, btw, throwing that trolley could have killed someone.  Yep, I hope he is fucked.


----------



## bromley (Apr 6, 2018)

Holloway fails medical apparently Petitis will step in!


----------



## Wilf (Apr 6, 2018)

Wilf said:


> No idea whether Magregor will serve any actual time over this, *but afterwards you can guess how it will play out. He'll launch his own competitor to the UFC *and we'll have multiple shit show circuses. Obnoxious cunt.


Thinking about it, one thing that probably makes this a non-starter is, if convicted, he won't be allowed back into the USA. If Putin does long term planning he'll already be making overtures...


----------



## bromley (Apr 6, 2018)

Pettis is now out!


----------



## tendril (Apr 6, 2018)

UFC in total shambles. Now Iaquinta v Nurmagomedov. If Khabib wins he gets belt, If Al wins he doesn't.


----------



## dshl (Apr 7, 2018)

tendril said:


> UFC in total shambles. Now Iaquinta v Nurmagomedov. If Khabib wins he gets belt, If Al wins he doesn't.



Dana was asked several times about this in the press conference.  Apparently al made weight for the fight after they weighed his shorts,  but somehow he didn't make weight for the fight when it comes to the belt. 

So to be 'clear', he made weight for the fight in order to fight but did not make weight for the fight in order to win the belt. But Dana goes on to say  he would still be the 'champ' but not the champ, but still the champ and  they'll work out the technicalities later [ depending on what suits them, to what degree they can push fighters around like al].


I'm willing to admit that I don't know enough about it and could be missing something but it sounds like the kind of reply to a very straightforward question someone with too much power gives - where they don't expect those beneath them to keep pursueing the question until they get a proper answer.


----------



## dshl (Apr 7, 2018)

And you've got Al in the background  looking like 'what can I do, who the fuck am I anyway? I'm here aren't I?  Should be happy even if I am getting screwed in my arsehole, shouldn't I?


----------



## elbows (Apr 8, 2018)

dshl said:


> Dana was asked several times about this in the press conference.  Apparently al made weight for the fight after they weighed his shorts,  but somehow he didn't make weight for the fight when it comes to the belt.
> 
> So to be 'clear', he made weight for the fight in order to fight but did not make weight for the fight in order to win the belt. But Dana goes on to say  he would still be the 'champ' but not the champ, but still the champ and  they'll work out the technicalities later [ depending on what suits them, to what degree they can push fighters around like al].
> 
> ...



Dana is an arsehole so this is not supposed to be a general defence of the man, but it is quite normal for championship fights to become non-title if the challenger misses weight by a certain amount. As for the UFC making a bit of a mess of their title situation when trying to respond to changes to the card, we've seen this a lot already including the overuse of interim titles. Its far from ideal and arguably devalues various titles, but sometimes the situation is hard to respond to ideally. Cant do much about fighters getting injured or going crazy, could do something about the shit weight cutting situation but that will require athletic commissions to get a clue.


----------



## dshl (Apr 8, 2018)

elbows said:


> Dana is an arsehole so this is not supposed to be a general defence of the man, but it is quite normal for championship fights to become non-title if the challenger misses weight by a certain amount.



 Didn't he ultimately make weight as a result of weighing of shorts?


----------



## dshl (Apr 8, 2018)

On another note, khabib, for me, is getting more likeable by the minute. " You want fight with me. In cage outside cage no matter. I from crazy mountain. Just give me location."


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 9, 2018)

Wilf said:


> No idea whether Magregor will serve any actual time over this, but afterwards you can guess how it will play out. He'll launch his own competitor to the UFC and we'll have multiple shit show circuses. Obnoxious cunt.



There's absolutely no chance that he'll do time for the incident (he should imo) , he'll get a big fine and some suspended sentence bullshit. His behaviour has gone from some form of loutish self-publicity to actual insanity with the latest events. He obviously has no-one in his social or familial circle to tell him to wind it in - his wife is clearly a vapid lackey to him, following him about everywhere with her stupid expression (no doubt trying to limit the volume of his womanising) but having no influence on his actions whatsover. The fact he and a dozen of his 'mates' flew by private jet from Dublin to New York with the sole intention of doing this and no-one queried whether or not it was actually a good idea says it all. It's wasn't a knee-jerk act, it was planned and premeditated which makes it much, much worse. New York is a hardline state when it comes to sentencing but even with that I can't see him doing time - he's a multimillionaire athlete and will have the best counsel available. It's gone beyond schtick now with him, I honestly believe he now inhabits some form of cocaine-induced bubble where he thinks he can do this kind of shit and get away with it.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2018)

dshl said:


> On another note, khabib, for me, is getting more likeable by the minute. " You want fight with me. In cage outside cage no matter. I from crazy mountain. Just give me location."


Definitely a case of 'gained in translation'.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2018)

dshl said:


> Didn't he ultimately make weight as a result of weighing of shorts?



To be honest there were so many twists in the card falling apart and various attempts to save it that I lost track!


----------



## bromley (Apr 9, 2018)

dshl said:


> On another note, khabib, for me, is getting more likeable by the minute. " You want fight with me. In cage outside cage no matter. I from crazy mountain. Just give me location."


He's not joking either! 

I like it when he played down the video of him wrestling a bear as a 9 year old. "It's just a training bear". Joe Rogan or someone pointed out that bear had decent Ju Jitsu!


----------



## bromley (Apr 9, 2018)

Bonesy said:


> There's absolutely no chance that he'll do time for the incident (he should imo) , he'll get a big fine and some suspended sentence bullshit. His behaviour has gone from some form of loutish self-publicity to actual insanity with the latest events. He obviously has no-one in his social or familial circle to tell him to wind it in - his wife is clearly a vapid lackey to him, following him about everywhere with her stupid expression (no doubt trying to limit the volume of his womanising) but having no influence on his actions whatsover. The fact he and a dozen of his 'mates' flew by private jet from Dublin to New York with the sole intention of doing this and no-one queried whether or not it was actually a good idea says it all. It's wasn't a knee-jerk act, it was planned and premeditated which makes it much, much worse. New York is a hardline state when it comes to sentencing but even with that I can't see him doing time - he's a multimillionaire athlete and will have the best counsel available. It's gone beyond schtick now with him, I honestly believe he now inhabits some form of cocaine-induced bubble where he thinks he can do this kind of shit and get away with it.


DC said this. You understand them being drunk one night and thinking it's a good idea but surely at some stage during the flight one of them would sober up and prevent it from happening. 

The Khabib thing at the Hotel wasn't that big a deal IMO, just a light slap to the back of the neck, yes it was intimidating but a massive over reaction which could lead to something far worse. I wouldn't mess with Khabib's team!


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2018)

Bonesy said:


> There's absolutely no chance that he'll do time for the incident (he should imo) , he'll get a big fine and some suspended sentence bullshit. His behaviour has gone from some form of loutish self-publicity to actual insanity with the latest events. He obviously has no-one in his social or familial circle to tell him to wind it in - his wife is clearly a vapid lackey to him, following him about everywhere with her stupid expression (no doubt trying to limit the volume of his womanising) but having no influence on his actions whatsover. The fact he and a dozen of his 'mates' flew by private jet from Dublin to New York with the sole intention of doing this and no-one queried whether or not it was actually a good idea says it all. It's wasn't a knee-jerk act, it was planned and premeditated which makes it much, much worse. New York is a hardline state when it comes to sentencing but even with that I can't see him doing time - he's a multimillionaire athlete and will have the best counsel available. It's gone beyond schtick now with him, I honestly believe he now inhabits some form of cocaine-induced bubble where he thinks he can do this kind of shit and get away with it.


I know pretty much nothing about MMA of the UFC, other than these big stories that flare up. Having said that, it seems to me Dana White has had at least a part to play in 'creating' the McGregor persona. From the clips I've seen, he knows he's pandering to a twat, but won't give up the money maker. Not sure at what point he ever decides to really give up on McGregor. Not impossible that we'll have a situation in 18 months where White and others are suing him, whilst also trying to put on a 'mega fight' against Khabib.  Even boxing would have been classier.


----------



## Bonesy (Apr 9, 2018)

I agree, I think the worm will turn eventually with McGregor and the UFC but as things stand he's still their greatest, more saleable asset. That said, he's 30 in July so his days at the very top of the game may be limited. White has bent over backwards to keep this guy sweet - ditto John Jones - as his job is to guarantee success for the UFC and McGregor is, at the end of the day, a sublimely talented fighter. Once his abilities start to wane however, my prediction would be that the whole relationship will sour very quickly. McGregor lacks the intellect to critique himself, to take responsibility for anything so I can see things getting pretty ugly as the blame game will invariably start. One thing I have said on these boards that disgusts me about White is the double standards that he has applied - Paul Daley was banned from the organisation for life for a half-assed sucker punch on a cosmic asshole in Josh Koscheck. McGregor has assaulted an official, shoved a referee, entered the cage without permission, run riot at a press conference etc and now this. ANY other fighter other than perhaps John Jones would have been banned for life from the UFC for that shambles. What will happen will be a period of 'rehabilitation' where White will try to put as mitigating a slant as he can on the whole incident with an eye on another superfight and bumper payday in 2019. His principles will be 'on hold' for as long as McGregor remains valuable to the UFC. Once that ends he'll drop him in a hot second. That would be my bet anyway.


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2018)

Barely a show goes by without weight-cutting issues of one sort or another.

UFC Fight Night 130: Darren Till fails to make weight for Stephen Thompson fight


----------



## bromley (May 27, 2018)

Any streams?


----------



## Bonesy (May 29, 2018)

Till isn't a welterweight, he may boil down to the weight but as he says himself, it's ridiculous that he's even fighting at 170. Personally I agree with those who say that it's tantamount to cheating 'missing' weight by such margins. Penalising fighters a portion of their purse isn't sufficient imo, that doesn't help the other fighter who may have taken a shitload out of himself making the weight only to come up against an opponent who hasn't put his body through that. I think that's the 8th or 9th fighter who has 'missed weight' and gone on to win. I don't think that's a coincidence.


----------



## Virtual Blue (May 29, 2018)

Wonderboy won that fight. Disgraceful that he didn't.
Goes to show what the UFC really is...


----------



## bromley (May 30, 2018)

Was a close fight, I think you could have scored it either way. Was surprised by the unanimous decision.

Also surprised with the lack of effort in the last ten seconds. Was there more fist bumps than shots landed?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 10, 2018)

So this new  Evans right? He's not been the same for some time now. He's 37 and just taking a pay check maybe  who wouldn't 



Spoiler: But



this fast finish by Smith, maybe taking a fall ?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 10, 2018)

Omg did anyone else just get that weird song in the break! White guy rapping about having white pussy and his coffin picked out. Weird as fuck, I didn't know if it was satire or wtaf.. I'm streaming..totallyanon

Maybe I'm just getting old


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 10, 2018)

Spoiler: Team



carla


Fuck! What a poor decision!


----------



## bromley (Jun 12, 2018)

Hope Woodley smashes Covington.


----------



## Bonesy (Jun 12, 2018)

Suspect he will... Covington's greatest strengths are his wrestling and conditioning but Woodley is no slouch there either and hits infinitely harder. Think he'll eventually KO him if they fight. Which would be no bad thing as Covington is a massive cunt.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Aug 4, 2018)

I see McGregor is going to fight Nurmagomedov. Dislike McGregor I may do but you gave to admit he doesn't shy away from a challenge.


----------



## dshl (Aug 15, 2018)

McGregor v Khabib now. I believe in Russia, right? This is what fighting fans want to see! I real fight between two special fighters - a bit of story behind it, a grudge. Good stuff.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 15, 2018)

dshl said:


> McGregor v Khabib now. I believe in Russia, right? This is what fighting fans want to see! I real fight between two special fighters - a bit of story behind it, a grudge. Good stuff.


McGregor's a tiresome cunt and worse, but yeah, all of that.  Anyway, what happened to his court appearance... must go and check...

edit: 'McGregor pleaded no contest to a count of disorderly conduct and was ordered to perform five days of community service and anger management classes.['

FFS!


----------



## dshl (Aug 15, 2018)

They're putting a UFC superstar on an anger management course


----------



## ice-is-forming (Aug 16, 2018)

9am  Friday morning gmt,  my mate Greg is fighting in this,  Should be good 

▷ Diamondback Fighting Championship 6 - Shane Mitchell vs Rick Alchin Official PPV Live Stream


----------



## stavros (Aug 20, 2018)

I've never watched MMA. However, I found this BBC3 documentary on meeting the weight both disturbing and fascinating.


----------



## LiamO (Oct 4, 2018)

Well.

Conor or Khabib?

Make your pick and say why.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 4, 2018)

Khabib, the man's a relentlesness mauling machine with amazing grappling skills who can take a hit, all the while keeping his ego in check


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 4, 2018)

I’m not a McGregor fan but the guy has disappeared for two years.
He’s an obsessive.
Fuck knows what he’s been up to, how he’s training etc.

Thing is, I’m a grappler and been doing the sport for over 10 years.
I naturally favour Khabib. The dude has some unnatural skills and strength.
BUT he has a habit of walking through things.
McGregor could knock the flying shit out of him.

I have no favourites...
MMA fans just be aware, McGregor isn’t that shit.

My heart says Khabib.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 4, 2018)

LiamO said:


> Well.
> 
> Conor or Khabib?
> 
> Make your pick and say why.



What about you dude?


----------



## LiamO (Oct 5, 2018)

I genuinely don't know. Been watching Khabib for a couple of years and he is excellent at wearing fighters down til they gas out and then he puts their lights out - some look almost grateful as he puts them out of their misery.

But McGregor - for all the abuse and bluster - is also a hell of a fighter.

I think it's all ultimately all down to McGregor's conditioning and also whether Khabib's chin is actually as good as it has looked when facing lesser punchers.

Struggling to think of an outcome that would genuinely surprise me. But sure we live in hope.

Whoever wins it will deserve it.


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 6, 2018)

The fight will be decided in the first 90 seconds by Khabib's footwork + stance


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 6, 2018)

and by how much coke Conor has done in the past 2 years


----------



## dshl (Oct 6, 2018)

What's all this about 5 passports around 9/11?


----------



## dshl (Oct 6, 2018)

No one can really call this fight tbh.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 6, 2018)

dshl said:


> No one can really call this fight tbh.




Just hope it’s not going to be a boring fight.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 6, 2018)

Presume if it comes down to 'controlling the distance', magregor wins with punches and kicks. Hope not and Khabib certainly has enough to win. Might even get it with his first leg grab. AKA, I haven't got a clue.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 7, 2018)

CyTube


----------



## B.I.G (Oct 7, 2018)

Aftermath was better than the fight!


----------



## LiamO (Oct 7, 2018)

LiamO said:


> Struggling to think of an outcome that would genuinely surprise me.



Well the after-party did, a bit.

No sympathy for McGregor. All the shite-talking, which crossed way too many lines this week, has to be backed up - and he couldn't do it, against a better fighter.

Fair play to him for refusing to press charges though. Only class action by him all week.

Hard to see a rematch even being allowed.


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 7, 2018)

Don't know how long this will be up.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 7, 2018)

Arena packed with blokes who like fighting inexplicably descends into violence 

I've just seen the whole fight; Khabib just mauled him. Even dropped him with a great right hand. He really is a beast. Unpleasant scenes at the end which there was no need for, especially the dude in red who vaults into the octagon and smacks McGregor from behind, but fighters gonna fight, it's not boxing after all


----------



## dshl (Oct 7, 2018)

CM was all sloppy even from the beginning. Ring Rust?  Whiskey? Maybe he didn't sleep. Who knows.


----------



## dshl (Oct 7, 2018)

Khabib alluded to some justification for his violence. 'why everyone talk about cage jump.. he insult family religion..' - this merge between words and actual bodily harm into one crime is getting tiresome.


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2018)

I am disgusted that those ugly scenes overshadowed Derrick Lewis' hot balls


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 7, 2018)

Great fight.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2018)

Khabib has got what's coming to him and there's always chance someone will really get hurt in a brawl outside the cage. But he's got a point about racist provocation. And White will have some brass neck if he bans him or takes his belt given that he used the bus attack as part of the promotion for this fight (apparently, I haven't seen it). Pretty much everything that followed the fight was ultimately down to Mcgregor.

Given that, as you might guess, I'm not exactly a Mcgregor fan, it was nice to see him outfought in pretty much every department. At least he had the good grace to not press charges.


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 7, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Don't know how long this will be up.




Well it's gone now. What was it?


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 7, 2018)

dshl said:


> CM was all sloppy even from the beginning. Ring Rust?  Whiskey? Maybe he didn't sleep. Who knows.



Yes, very poor performance. Let Khabib walk him to the fence over and over again. No lateral movement,  no pivoting off.


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 7, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Well it's gone now. What was it?


the fight


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2018)

This says it all for me, though if anything it understates the case against white.
Incredibly, Conor McGregor may profit from his farcical fight with Nurmagomedov


----------



## Kandicane (Oct 8, 2018)

I saw the fight with my boyfriend. I don't know how they can justify an immediate rematch. What has McGregor done to deserve it other than being a loudmouth? Let him fight at least one Lightweight contender first.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 8, 2018)

Kandicane said:


> I saw the fight with my boyfriend. I don't know how they can justify an immediate rematch. What has McGregor done to deserve it other than being a loudmouth? Let him fight at least one Lightweight contender first.


Yep, he's a fucking arsehole but has always been an exceptional fighter. On Saturday though, he was outclassed.  I've no idea whether there were rematch clauses or indeed how long Khabib will be banned for, but after that performance there's no way McGregor 'deserves' a rematch. He managed to come back against Diaz, but this was a different sort of defeat.

I genuinely detest McGregor, but there is still something sad about a great fighter being eclipsed. If nothing else you have to be impressed by the blows he took.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 8, 2018)

khabib vs GSP 
Mcgregor vs Ferguson


----------



## bromley (Oct 8, 2018)

Khabib v Ferguson
Conor v Nate

Holloway v Ortega is the one I'm looking forward to, way more than last weekend's fight.


----------



## bromley (Oct 8, 2018)

LiamO said:


> Well the after-party did, a bit.
> 
> No sympathy for McGregor. All the shite-talking, which crossed way too many lines this week, has to be backed up - and he couldn't do it, against a better fighter.
> 
> ...


He doesn't deserve a rematch, I tell you who did, Aldo...


----------



## tendril (Oct 8, 2018)




----------



## LiamO (Oct 8, 2018)

bromley said:


> He doesn't deserve a rematch, I tell you who did, Aldo...



Why?

Took 3 goes to get him in the Octagon, did it not?


----------



## dshl (Oct 9, 2018)

Kandicane said:


> I saw the fight with my boyfriend. I don't know how they can justify an immediate rematch. What has McGregor done to deserve it other than being a loudmouth? Let him fight at least one Lightweight contender first.


 I think in the past the substance behind the MC's hype was clearer. After these two losses now and so much bluster it's all sounding mostly like hot air.  I personally don't feel like going on another Conner McGregor hype train only to arrive at such an underwhelming destination. Getting tiresome now.


----------



## dshl (Oct 9, 2018)

I know this is not MMA but has anyone been following the Wilder v Tyson boxing promotion series of utter bollocks? My God it is so fake and even more retarded than a CM promotion.


----------



## bromley (Oct 10, 2018)

LiamO said:


> Why?
> 
> Took 3 goes to get him in the Octagon, did it not?


Pretty sure he just pulled out of 189 due to a rib injury after defending the belt 7 times.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 10, 2018)

dshl said:


> I know this is not MMA but has anyone been following the Wilder v Tyson boxing promotion series of utter bollocks? My God it is so fake and even more retarded than a CM promotion.


I'm only a casual mma/boxing fan, so hadn't really noticed how the traditional press conference turned into this multi-country snarling pit of bollocks. I can really appreciate what fighters do, when it comes down to it it's something real, facing up to someone who can hospitalise you (whether that's actually a good thing or not). But all this nonsense just pushes the whole sport into and beyond multi-million pound panto - with added opportunities for racism, homophobia etc.  I'm nostalgic for the days of people just throwing tables at each other.


----------



## dshl (Oct 10, 2018)

Wilf said:


> I'm only a casual mma/boxing fan, so hadn't really noticed how the traditional press conference turned into this multi-country snarling pit of bollocks. I can really appreciate what fighters do, when it comes down to it it's something real, facing up to someone who can hospitalise you (whether that's actually a good thing or not). But all this nonsense just pushes the whole sport into and beyond multi-million pound panto - with added opportunities for racism, homophobia etc.  I'm nostalgic for the days of people just throwing tables at each other.


Hype based on fake hatred for each other is a bit like 99p instead of £1. Works and always will even though we know it's just crap.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 10, 2018)

dshl said:


> Hype based on fake hatred for each other is a bit like 99p instead of £1. Works and always will even though we know it's just crap.


Derek Chisora should have copyrighted a couple of his moves.


----------



## bromley (Dec 8, 2018)

Ortega v Holloway is on! 

And I got my BJJ blue belt in November.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 8, 2018)

bromley said:


> And I got my BJJ blue belt in November.



Nice one  and I'll be watching the fights. We get UFC on a sunday here. prelims around 10amish and main event around 1pm  Great way to spend a lazy sunday, although the bookies have Ortega v Holloway as even.


----------



## bromley (Dec 9, 2018)

ice-is-forming said:


> Nice one  and I'll be watching the fights. We get UFC on a sunday here. prelims around 10amish and main event around 1pm  Great way to spend a lazy sunday, although the bookies have Ortega v Holloway as even.


Thanks.

The main event does not disappoint!


----------



## dshl (Dec 29, 2018)

Does anyone know if I get the fight pass free trial whether I will be able to watch the Jon Jones fight tonight? If not will I be able to watch it straight after? 

Does anyone know? 

 It's at 3 AM, right?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 30, 2018)

Spoiler: this is control, I repeat...



Cyborg is down!





Spoiler: and jones is..



back! and calling out DC!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 30, 2018)

dshl said:


> Does anyone know if I get the fight pass free trial whether I will be able to watch the Jon Jones fight tonight? If not will I be able to watch it straight after?
> 
> Does anyone know?
> 
> It's at 3 AM, right?



I've been usng CyTube  for future reference..


----------



## bromley (Dec 30, 2018)




----------



## dshl (Jan 1, 2019)

Wanted to watch it legally. Started the trial btw. To answer my own question, for the sake of anyone else wondering, no - fightpass doesn't include the main fight.

It has a nice catalogue though. So far, if you can hink of a fight or a fighter, it's there.  After all they did buy pride and strikeforce didn't they?


----------



## tylerwood377 (Jan 1, 2019)

real fight.. real blood


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 5, 2019)




----------



## fishfinger (Feb 5, 2019)

Mini-gi


----------



## iona (Feb 5, 2019)

Rolled up gi sleeves = definitely not comp legal

And wtf is with that belt knot?! Not convinced they're even a real black belt...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Feb 5, 2019)

iona said:


> Rolled up gi sleeves = definitely not comp legal
> 
> And wtf is with that belt knot?! Not convinced they're even a real black belt...



 what are they like hey!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Feb 5, 2019)

black belt? what lineage?


----------



## bromley (Feb 5, 2019)

How many BJJ practitioners do we have on this site? Time for a separate thread?


----------



## Virtual Blue (Feb 5, 2019)

bromley said:


> How many BJJ practitioners do we have on this site? Time for a separate thread?



I know 6 who roll from this site.
It's a mainstream sport now - surprised there's not more...


----------



## sim667 (Feb 5, 2019)

I'm thinking about starting when I reach Black Belt in the martial art I do currently.

It will be RGJJ as thats what they teach at my place though.


----------



## dshl (Feb 12, 2019)

Did anyone watch the Anderson Silver fight?  Now after losing again he wants to fight Conner.

Personally, I don't get these past-it legends getting fights other than fighting other past-it legends like old footballers play in tribute or charity matches.

If your average high-ranking fighter can beat them then why are they there being promoted in a main UFC event?

It's like: Who would you like to see him lose to next? Conner? Khabib perhaps?


----------



## bromley (Feb 12, 2019)

Silva wants a rematch with Nick Diaz. Conor is a different weight class.

What do people predict for Michael Page V Paul Daley?


----------



## elbows (Feb 12, 2019)

Same reason that people like Jon Jones get special treatment when they break the doping rules. Business, who draws PPV buys, caused by things like casual fan name recognition vastly inflating the number of paying eyeballs.

UFC gives up on the has-beens eventually, and then we sometimes get to see them in even more embarrassing fights for other promotions, fights that should never have happened. It was a complete disgrace that Chuck Lidell was allowed to fight for Golden Boy promotions when he could barely walk.

I'm sure part of the reason I rarely watch UFC anymore is that they made a mockery out of a lot of their titles, one way or another.


----------



## dshl (Feb 12, 2019)

bromley said:


> Silva wants a rematch with Nick Diaz. Conor is a different weight class.
> 
> What do people predict for Michael Page V Paul Daley?



He said he does want conor.


----------



## bromley (Feb 13, 2019)

elbows said:


> Same reason that people like Jon Jones get special treatment when they break the doping rules. Business, who draws PPV buys, caused by things like casual fan name recognition vastly inflating the number of paying eyeballs.
> 
> UFC gives up on the has-beens eventually, and then we sometimes get to see them in even more embarrassing fights for other promotions, fights that should never have happened. It was a complete disgrace that Chuck Lidell was allowed to fight for Golden Boy promotions when he could barely walk.
> 
> I'm sure part of the reason I rarely watch UFC anymore is that they made a mockery out of a lot of their titles, one way or another.


Silva fought well but loss the better fighter. I'm sure he would have won in his prime but the comparison to the Lidell Ortiz 3 fight isn't fair.


----------



## elbows (Feb 13, 2019)

bromley said:


> Silva fought well but loss the better fighter. I'm sure he would have won in his prime but the comparison to the Lidell Ortiz 3 fight isn't fair.



I was not making that comparison, since I indicated that fights like the Lidell one happen in other promotions, long after UFC have lost interest.

I didnt see the SIlva fight but I heard it won the fight of the night bonus so I'm not of the opinion that it was a train wreck.

Also the problems I have with the way UFC have handled various titles does not extend to what matches fighters ask for next. There is nothing worse than seeing a fighter put on a great, career momentum-building fight, only to have absolutely nothing to say about their next potential opponent when they do their post-fight interview. A large number of fighters should be trying to call out McGregor, because thats where the money is. Whether they actually deserve or are given such a fight is another matter.


----------



## bromley (Feb 14, 2019)

Sorry elbows i completely misread you. Hopefully this will make things right!


----------



## bromley (Feb 17, 2019)

Well MVP V Daley was disappointing.


----------



## elbows (Feb 17, 2019)

Dont worry about misreading me, perhaps the lack of clarity was my fault and I never mind clarifying what I was on about.

I've not been following MVP vs Daley stuff at all, I am really losing touch these days.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 27, 2019)

McGregor retired and it's announced he's being investigated for sexual assault, all in the space of 24 hours. Some going even for that cunt.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 16, 2019)

Wilf said:


> McGregor retired and it's announced he's being investigated for sexual assault, all in the space of 24 hours. Some going even for that cunt.


Oh, and now he's pictured punching a middle aged bloke in a bar for (seemingly) refusing a glass of his branded whisky.
Watch: Conor McGregor appears to 'punch' man in whiskey dispute

The bloke pretty ignores the punch - just like Khabib.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 16, 2019)

Anyone watch one championship via the app at all? Its like free UFC with lesser known fighters and all the drama.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Aug 18, 2019)

And Diaz does it again  I love the Diaz brothers  as someone who has a loved one practising MMA + medical cannabis .. he's a bloody champion to me


----------



## ice-is-forming (Nov 3, 2019)

And here we go again... I've got $ on Diaz


----------



## ice-is-forming (Nov 3, 2019)

Ffs


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 6, 2019)

ice-is-forming said:


> Ffs



just saw this...

Jorge has skills - I would have looked at this before betting...


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 6, 2019)

another bullshit article from The Guardian (probably written by an out of shape dude).

Donald Trump may have been booed in New York but UFC is his friend



> Despite the relative lack of diversity in the UFC fanbase, there are no official studies into the political leanings of the promotion’s audience. However, there have been significant examples of mixed martial arts being co-opted by far right groups. Violent white nationalists such as the Rise Above Movement in the United States, Pride France in France, Kampf der Nibelungen in Germany, and White Rex in Russia use MMA as a recruitment tool for disenfranchised youth, as well as a training methodology in preparation for street fights and riots. While this does not reflect the vast majority of MMA and UFC fans, it highlights the sport’s attraction amongst white nationalists and far-right extremists, many of whom are in favour of Trump.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Nov 6, 2019)

Personally I think the fight was stopped too early, nates always a bleeder. It'll be interesting to see them go at it again


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 7, 2019)

ice-is-forming said:


> Personally I think the fight was stopped too early, nates always a bleeder. It'll be interesting to see them go at it again



Diaz was dominated, he was fucked and lost every round. 
I don’t think he had an answer to Masdival’s combos of kicks and punches.

And besides, Masdival’s time is now...he has maybe, one to two fights left before he retires/ or goes shit.
Diaz the same and he shouldn’t bother chasing another fight that he would certainly lose.


----------



## bromley (Nov 7, 2019)

ice-is-forming said:


> Personally I think the fight was stopped too early, nates always a bleeder. It'll be interesting to see them go at it again


It was a very bad cut. I feel sorry for Masvidal as it taints his victory. He deserves a title match or at least the chance to Askren Covington.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 7, 2019)

bromley said:


> It was a very bad cut. I feel sorry for Masvidal as it taints his victory. He deserves a title match or at least the chance to Askren Covington.



yeah it was a nasty fucked up cut - anymore and his face would be in the crowd.
Good stoppage.

Masvidal deserves a mega-paycheck and should go against McGregor.
Does he need a legacy fight? He's beaten Diaz, first to beat Askren and secure fastest knockout?
imo, guy is a legend already - love him since those backyard scrap vids, dude has improved so much as a fighter.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jul 13, 2020)

Jahreau Shepherd: British MMA fighter stabbed to death at his 30th birthday party
					

British MMA champion Jahreau Shepherd was stabbed to death at his 30th birthday party in London on Saturday night. The welterweight champion was found with extensive injuries on the Black Prince Es…




					talksport.com
				




RIP bro - the entire MMA/ combat community in South London will miss you. 
He was a gentleman in and out of the cage, one of the best dudes I have come across.


----------



## bmd (Jun 5, 2021)

Oh!. There's an MMA thread on my favourite forum. Let's go! 

So, Nate vs Leon Edwards? I mean, if we're gonna be real then it's Edwards but who doesn't want Nate to win?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jun 6, 2021)

bmd said:


> Oh!. There's an MMA thread on my favourite forum. Let's go!
> 
> So, Nate vs Leon Edwards? I mean, if we're gonna be real then it's Edwards but who doesn't want Nate to win?


This. So much this.


----------



## stavros (Jun 6, 2021)

I've been watching the Bellator stuff the Beeb have been putting on the iplayer, and very much enjoying it. I've no idea when it's being broadcast, as I can't see it in the schedules at all.

How does one watch the other franchises, legally obviously?


----------



## bmd (Jun 6, 2021)

stavros said:


> I've been watching the Bellator stuff the Beeb have been putting on the iplayer, and very much enjoying it. I've no idea when it's being broadcast, as I can't see it in the schedules at all.
> 
> How does one watch the other franchises, legally obviously?



One, the Asian organisation, is almost always on YT after the fights are finished and sometimes the prelims are live. I think BBC Bellator is just the main event, shown after it has finished. No idea about UFC as I always watch it via a torrent the day after.


----------



## stavros (Jun 7, 2021)

bmd said:


> One, the Asian organisation, is almost always on YT after the fights are finished and sometimes the prelims are live. I think BBC Bellator is just the main event, shown after it has finished. No idea about UFC as I always watch it via a torrent the day after.



Oh I've no doubt the BBC stuff isn't anywhere near live. The fact they only show single fights, whilst the commentators tell us what's coming up after, kind of gives it away.

I'll give Youtube a look. "One" isn't the easiest keyword to use.

I watched this one yesterday, Page vs Anderson. The latter's nose wasn't so much broken as simply no longer existing:


----------



## Anju (Jun 7, 2021)

stavros said:


> I've been watching the Bellator stuff the Beeb have been putting on the iplayer, and very much enjoying it. I've no idea when it's being broadcast, as I can't see it in the schedules at all.
> 
> How does one watch the other franchises, legally obviously?


UFC fight pass is good. £6.99 a month. All the UFC prelims are live, main events normally available the following Tuesday plus they have content from other promotions and a library of all their previous fights as well as TUF and contender series. 

As well as having some amazing fighters I find UFC commentary really good. 

Not sure if they still do it but you used to be able to get a weeks free trial.


----------



## bmd (Jun 8, 2021)

What are people using to follow their fighters? I watch far too much YT. A lot of Full Reptile pre-fight analysis, which has helped with understanding the fighter's choices during the fight. Oh and the Reddit MMA sub is pretty good imo.

stavros I actually never noticed that lol, about the upcoming stuff but now that you mention it...

Here's the main channel for One Championship. I really like the Oz commentator too.


----------



## dshl (Jun 8, 2021)

bmd said:


> Oh!. There's an MMA thread on my favourite forum. Let's go!
> 
> So, Nate vs Leon Edwards? I mean, if we're gonna be real then it's Edwards but who doesn't want Nate to win?


Nate (36) looks like his face will literally fall apart with one more punch. Edwards (29) - on the other hand - is miles more spritely, suffered miles less damage and is very talented.

Edwards gets my support, not just because of the British aspect but I like him. He's a good, honest guy, who has his ego in check.


----------



## bmd (Jun 9, 2021)

dshl said:


> Nate (36) looks like his face will literally fall apart with one more punch. Edwards (29) - on the other hand - is miles more spritely, suffered miles less damage and is very talented.
> 
> Edwards gets my support, not just because of the British aspect but I like him. He's a good, honest guy, who has his ego in check.



Yeah, but Edwards is too serious. Plus I'm a fully signed up member of...



Nick Diaz Army, motherfucker!


----------



## dshl (Jun 14, 2021)

From the Edwards/Nate highlights I learned that Edwards is not as good as I thought he was. Usman will tear him a new one.

From that performance, I think Cobey should fight Usman again and not Edwards.

Cobey leaves nothing behind and comes to kill.


----------



## tendril (Jul 11, 2021)

Brrraaaaahhaaaaaaa   

Once again his mouth wrote cheques his fists couldn't cash...


----------



## Numbers (Jul 11, 2021)

The man broke his foot.   As much as I don't like him that's unfortunate.


----------



## tendril (Jul 11, 2021)

Numbers said:


> The man broke his foot.   As much as I don't like him that's unfortunate.


did you listen to the shit that came out his mouth afterwards about Poirier's wife? The man is a disgrace and deserves to be ridiculed at every opportunity...


----------



## Wilf (Jul 11, 2021)

tendril said:


> did you listen to the shit that came out his mouth afterwards about Poirier's wife? The man is a disgrace and deserves to be ridiculed at every opportunity...


The man was a deeply unpleasant braggart before you even start on the 'legal issues'.  Alleged sexual assaults (3 times), assaulting an older bloke in a pub, the bus attack and others.  The man is a piece of shit and whilst I don't wish him permanent damage, even him, can't say that I'm all that fussed about a leg break.


----------



## Anju (Sep 18, 2021)

I hope this happens.  can see a lot of fighters being up for joining. Fair share of revenue and comprehensive  insurance. Should also put pressure on other organisations to improve.









						Report: New MMA promotion to feature fighters’ union, CBA, team lead by Georges St-Pierre
					

The World Fight League is promising a team-based MMA competition.




					www.bloodyelbow.com


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Ive got $55 on Diaz. Should I place more?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Shit. I accidentalied another $100


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Fucking Robbie Lawler walking  in to the last of mohicans . Up there in my top 10 of fav movies n soundtracks ever.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

I'd be betting on him if it wasn't for Diaz!!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Nick walking down to the Deftone..


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Well thats it Diaz ! Sort it out..


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Hope he doesn't fight for $$$ again


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

1.5 hours down the drain . Oh well you get that. Having a bet on improves the watching enjoyment 💯


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Over it now. Go the Ozzie!  Volkanovski!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Fucking Ortega, day glo voodoo masks for the walk down. Plus a plait that looks like a Muay Thai head dress that you remove before the fight ...


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Aussie, Aussie, Aussie Oi Oi Oi


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Ortega seems to be wearing a cod piece


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Herb oh herb. That should've been stopped ffs!


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

Round 5 ding ding


----------



## ice-is-forming (Sep 26, 2021)

WooT


----------



## bromley (Oct 22, 2022)

Any streams?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Nov 26, 2022)

I was actually looking for my post  where the green power ranger sent my sick MMA son a signed t.shirt. I was so sad to hear he'd died by suicide.


----------

