# Programme about Billingsgate Fish market may 24th



## 8115 (May 24, 2012)

Not sure if this will be on i-player. It's more than half way through. It's a proper old-school art/ documentary, on of the best things I've seen for a very long time. Beautifully shot and edited. It's an Open University programme. Is anyone watching this? Talk about oral/ folk history.


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## editor (May 24, 2012)

That was quite depressing stuff. Profit over workers wins again.


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## 8115 (May 24, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod..._Markets_The_Fish_Market_Inside_Billingsgate/


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## 8115 (May 24, 2012)

editor said:


> That was quite depressing stuff. Profit over workers wins again.


 
I don't know.  Changing times, at least.


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## Puddy_Tat (May 24, 2012)

Article with short video linked from UNITE website


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## editor (May 24, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Article with short video linked from UNITE website


Good piece:



> Billingsgate Market began trading exclusively in fish in 1699. It comprised of two main groups: the merchants who sold the fish and the porters, who with their small numbered enamel badges, traditionally worn on their aprons, had sole licence to transport fish within the market. The portering system is based on the merchant paying the porter a fixed retainer and the fishmonger or customer paying a bobbin (today, 18 pence) per stone of fish delivered.
> 
> A porter’s work is one of hard manual graft, carrying heavy boxes of fresh fish and working unsociable hours. Yet these men are proud of their enduring role and tradition. The job of porter has often been passed down through family generations, resulting in a very tight-knit community, complete with its own humorous banter and camaraderie. The porters have long been seen as the heart and soul of Billingsgate.
> 
> ...


Also:



> The civic authority that is deciding the fate of the porters does not represent the common good but the interests of money alone. In a modern democracy it cannot be right that there is no diversity or balance of interest in the decision-making body of a political authority. Parliament itself has no authority or sovereignty in this part of our capital. The City remains the last vestige of the closed shop, here totally dominated by the power of money alone.
> 
> The workforce of the City of London Corporation is being dissolved while those who represent the interests of money keep all their ancient customs, rituals, rights and assets. They remain hostile to the idea of a corporation in which there is a balance between different parts and of the ancient constitution which demands honour and the common good from its institutions.
> 
> ...


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## 8115 (May 24, 2012)

Labour MP Jon Cruddas fears that “the market – and specifically the porters – stands in the way of its expansion plans around Canary Wharf.” 

The last point appears key. This area of London, its financial hub and primarily the venue for the city’s 2012 Olympics, is undergoing massive redevelopment, particularly in regard to transport links - for example, the new Stratford International and Cross Rail stations. As such, real estate values around Billingsgate are at a premium. The porters themselves believe that the fish market will be relocated; and that getting rid of them and their organized, historically protected workforce, was the first step to make this possible.

Potentially all comes down to property developers again.  Wish I'd watched the program properly now, was mainly just enjoying the visuals/ dialogue.  That eel bloke was well rude.


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## BlueSquareThing (May 25, 2012)

Excellent tele, really well shot etc... Thoroughly depressing story from the Porters pov mind.


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## trabuquera (May 25, 2012)

It was a FANTASTIC documentary - beautifully shot, some classic dialogue and situations, and some really sensitive treatment of very difficult questions (about class, race, work, exploitation, tradition and so much more.)

you could have filled the hour with just the strand about the porters' situation alone. But I really wasn't won over fully to one side or the other in the dispute. On the face of it it looked like just another example of collective bargaining being swept away so that the bosses could get lower-ranking workers fighting among themselves for the chance of a job. But *puts tentative voice on* isn't it also possible to look at the old way of doing things as a folkloric, but not that efficient, way to run a business - which does have to do with public health in the end (fish markets need to be clean in every sense) - and wouldn't it be possible to argue that the old porters' regime was a protectionist closed shop (probably a bit of a racist one, too) in which jobs were handed down by family or cronyism rather than merit?

Not trying to disagree with anyone here - I don't know enough about the background, never mind the labour theory of why workers' federations like the porters' are or aren't preferable to free-market casual employment. One of the things I liked best about this doc was the way that apparently 'cartoon cockney Tories' ended up saying things like "if it wasn't for the foreign people this market would be dead already" .... you got unexpected comments from people. Is there a case to be made that the portering regime needed changing - not on the basis that the City of London Corp needed to make more money, but on the basis that it was just outdated and restrictive?


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## 8115 (May 25, 2012)

trabuquera said:


> It was a FANTASTIC documentary - beautifully shot, some classic dialogue and situations, and some really sensitive treatment of very difficult questions (about class, race, work, exploitation, tradition and so much more.)
> 
> you could have filled the hour with just the strand about the porters' situation alone. But I really wasn't won over fully to one side or the other in the dispute. On the face of it it looked like just another example of collective bargaining being swept away so that the bosses could get lower-ranking workers fighting among themselves for the chance of a job. But *puts tentative voice on* isn't it also possible to look at the old way of doing things as a folkloric, but not that efficient, way to run a business - which does have to do with public health in the end (fish markets need to be clean in every sense) - and wouldn't it be possible to argue that the old porters' regime was a protectionist closed shop (probably a bit of a racist one, too) in which jobs were handed down by family or cronyism rather than merit?
> 
> Not trying to disagree with anyone here - I don't know enough about the background, never mind the labour theory of why workers' federations like the porters' are or aren't preferable to free-market casual employment. One of the things I liked best about this doc was the way that apparently 'cartoon cockney Tories' ended up saying things like "if it wasn't for the foreign people this market would be dead already" .... you got unexpected comments from people. Is there a case to be made that the portering regime needed changing - not on the basis that the City of London Corp needed to make more money, but on the basis that it was just outdated and restrictive?


 
There are lots of ways to skin a cat?  I think you could be at least partly right.


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## Gingerman (May 25, 2012)

A facinating insight to a London that most of us who live here know little off,that Roger bloke made me laught,talked about how great the blokes who worked for him were and then spent the majority of the program constantly berating them for being a bunch of useless cunts,no surprises they had enough and fucked off,the assessment of pollock was spot on as well,pollocks bollocks


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## girasol (May 25, 2012)

watched it last night - very good and very sad too...


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## Mrs Magpie (May 26, 2012)

Thanks for the heads-up on this. Great documentary and I wasn't expecting bits of Il Trovatore but it worked well even though blacksmiths are not normally associated with Billingsgate


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## BlueSquareThing (May 26, 2012)

Where are they doing next week? Presumably the other two programmes are Smithfield and Covent Garden?


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