# The 2012 Six Nations Thread



## Grandma Death (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok.  Just over a month to go... Predictions please. 

I think the Welsh v Ireland match opener will be a big match and if Wales win I can see them bagging the triple crown no problem.  Can't see England doing a great deal and the jury is still put for me and France.  Having said that they were great in the Rwc final. 

Anyway my two predictions are:

France
Wales
Ireland
England
Scotland 
Italy 

If Wales beat Ireland I'm predicting a possible slam for them so my second prediction is:

Wales 
France
Ireland 
England
Scotland
Italy


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## stavros (Jan 1, 2012)

This will no doubt be in my family's 2012 sports predictions, so I will need to make a choice. I'm no expert on rugby, but England could bounce back under new management after the WC. I'll probably pick France though, but don't press me for reasons.


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## Karac (Jan 1, 2012)

If Wales play like they did in the World Cup in the 6N they will blow the opposition away.
Except if playing France


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## 1927 (Jan 1, 2012)

Karac said:


> If Wales play like they did in the World Cup in the 6N they will blow the opposition away.
> Except if playing France _with a french referee_


Corrected for you!


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## Grandma Death (Jan 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> Corrected for you!


 
Rolland won't be reffing any of this year's matches. I suspect irb feared for his life.


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## elfman (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm going to be controversial and go for an England grand slam. Lancaster will shake things up, bring some new blood in and everyone will be caught by surprise.

At the end of the 6N I will quote this to show that I'm right


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## 1927 (Jan 2, 2012)

elfman said:


> I'm going to be controversial and go for an England grand slam. Lancaster will shake things up, bring some new blood in and everyone will be caught by surprise.
> 
> At the end of the 6N I will quote this to show that I'm right



Early contender for funniest post of the year!


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## stavros (Jan 2, 2012)

Karac said:


> If Wales play like they did in the World Cup in the 6N they will blow the opposition away.



If England had played the WC as they did the 6N last year, ditto. It doesn't always work like that.


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## Grandma Death (Jan 3, 2012)

1927 said:


> Early contender for funniest post of the year!


 
I agree and in fact Im going to requote it at the end of the tourny too


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## Grandma Death (Jan 3, 2012)

stavros said:


> If England had played the WC as they did the 6N last year, ditto. It doesn't always work like that.


 
I dont think England were all that in last years 6N. It was hardly a vintage year for winning was it.


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## stavros (Jan 3, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I dont think England were all that in last years 6N. It was hardly a vintage year for winning was it.



Maybe not. As I said upthread, I'm not an expert (I don't even understand all the rules and have never played).


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## bendeus (Jan 3, 2012)

stavros said:


> If England had played the WC as they did the 6N last year, ditto. It doesn't always work like that.



England were prison shamed by Ireland in the last 6n. I don't quite follow.


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## elfman (Jan 4, 2012)

You all underestimate England. They basically have nothing to lose but have a lot of young talent coming through and a good set of (temporary?) coaches. Lets see what happens at the end of the tournament eh?


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## bendeus (Jan 4, 2012)

elfman said:


> You all underestimate England.



No, I think that we correctly estimate England based on the fact they've been shit for a year, during which time they've been beaten by three of the home nations, bored/fluked their way through to the WC QFs whereupon they were embarrassed by an appalling France side, have glaring weaknesses at 14, 12, 7, 8 (though Ben Morgan's decision to opt for you may help), and 10, lack a playmaker, have lacked what appears to be a coherent gameplan for some time now, suffer from poor discipline, don't have a permanent coaching team in place and appear to be stocked by egos more interested in self-aggrandisement, partying and enrichment than in winning rugby games.



> They basically have nothing to lose



Except games of rugby.



> but have a lot of young talent coming through



Pah! We've all got that, butt (except for Ireland, natch)



> and a good set of (temporary?) coaches



Based on a judgement of their coaching performance at international level?



> Lets see what happens at the end of the tournament eh?



Agreed. You never know what's going to happen, which is what makes it such a compelling tournament. One thing the rugby world knows all too well is that you can never, never write England off. To do so would be just plain thick, but to call a new dawn based on the wafer-thin rationale you've proffered is a tad fantastical.

Predictions in what will be a non-GS year:
*France* - 3 home games including two against their nemesis England and Ireland. Will be buoyed by WC performance. No more Lievremont so fresher and keener.
*Wales - *heart rather than head here. Also have three home games, but the away ones are against England and Ireland. Big injury problems at lock, with first choice pairing AWJ and Charteris both out for the duration. Ickle's tries will also be missed. Lingering doubts about coaching team remain. Not freshened up at all and still reliant on the same tactics.
*Ireland: *Final team with 3 home games. BOD will be a massive miss for them as will the lack of an out and out jackalling 7. POC pulling up trees, however, and the provincial sides are still showing how much damage they're capable of doing.
*England: *Too soon for the team to bed in with anything like an effective gameplan. Integrating the likes of Farrell, Tuilagi and Ben Morgan will help them to strengthen, but can Flood deliver the type of flat, gainline rugby at 10 to bring the bunch of preening, egomaniac wankers outside him into play 
*Scotland: *A bit less shit than Italy
*Italy: *A bit more shit than Scotland

Anyways, the above is almost entirely definately wrong.


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## 1927 (Jan 4, 2012)

Danny Care dropped by England for drink driving, 3 weeks after drunk and disorderly. You couldnt make it up!


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## bendeus (Jan 4, 2012)

1927 said:


> Early contender for funniest post of the year!



But 1927, Elfman has been almost unerringly correct in his predictions since he started posting on the rugby thread. He's like a bigger, land-dwelling, quadripedal Paul the Octopus with a far lower win/loss ratio


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## bendeus (Jan 4, 2012)

1927 said:


> Danny Care dropped by England for drink driving, 3 weeks after drunk and disorderly. You couldnt make it up!



Those Saes are the gift that just keep on giving.


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## bendeus (Jan 4, 2012)

Care's Tweet just hours before his arrest:




			
				 The Brown Bottle said:
			
		

> "2012 is hopefully going to be a massive year… *Earn respect. Earn the shirt. Set the example.* #makeitcount."



Rofl


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## elfman (Jan 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> But 1927, Elfman has been almost unerringly correct in his predictions since he started posting on the rugby thread. He's like a bigger, land-dwelling, quadripedal Paul the Octopus with a far lower win/loss ratio


My previous predictions have been hard to disagree with though, as this one is considered a joke by all the English haters, it could actually be correct


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## bendeus (Jan 5, 2012)

elfman said:


> My previous predictions have been hard to disagree with though, as this one is considered a joke by all the English haters, it could actually be correct



I don't consider it 'a joke' as such. After all, who'd have given Wales a snowball's back in 2008? If I was English right now, however, I wouldn't exactly be brimful of confidence.


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## Grandma Death (Jan 5, 2012)

Tuilagi looking doubtful now


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jan 5, 2012)

W00t


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## Infidel Castro (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm trying to see past Ireland.  It'll be a hard game.  Leinster are shit-hot right now.  Again.  Munster still stubborn.  Ulster occasionally flatter too.  If they get it right and we don't beat them, they could do a number.  If we beat them first, it's game on.  The problem is, we've lost our last three matches.  Getting a big one away from home will be hard.  It's always the same with Wales - see how the first game goes and take it from there.  Getting on a roll is key for all teams, but the way Wales play, a first-up win seems to create a momentum that is very difficult to stop (2005, 2008 - all about momentum and belief).

France should win the tournie on paper, but Wales and Ireland both have more than enough to beat them if they get it right.  England are an unknown quantity of sorts.

Scotland?  Solid.  Average.  Dan Parks.  Grim.

Italy - I hope they do a number on the Scots as I really don't like them.

Wales - 1st or 4th
Ireland - 1-3
France - 1-2
England - 3rd or 4th
Scotland - 5th
Italy - 6th

I'm not doing a final table position thang.  I'm not brave enough.

Man of the tournament to be Toby Faletau.

Another thing - Ryan Jones' form at lock has been pretty tasty.  He should start with Bradley for Wales.  I would also look at drafting in young  McAuley Cook, who some of you might know was captain of Wales at the U20's recently.  Blood him.  Get him involved.  Future captain material there.

And have Mattie Morgan in the squad as a wild-card.  What a talent.


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## flypanam (Jan 11, 2012)

I'm trying to see past Wales. I'm pretty flummoxed as to why the provinces seem to do well and have a mental toughness that the Ireland side just doesn't seem to have. I just can't put my finger on it and now with Drico likely out of the loop what toughness will fall to Paulie and he can't carry the team for 5 games.

I've got mates who have put money on us winning the event at 6/1. However I'm not so sure. I just don't trust or have confidence in Deccie Kidney as coach. The fact that Kidney is taking over attacking coach role along with Les Kiss and Mark tainton is a worry. The fact that he'll keep the likes of O'Callaghan and D'arcy when Touhy and Fitzgerald could play in those positions.

Overall, I think England's young tyro's will be found out. Not that they are bad players, but because the league they play in is so shite. So I predict a very poor England for this six nations. Italy will be better than scotland who will get spooned. Wales and Us will slug for second and I fancy we may just do one on them. I know bendy I know...

France to win i guess, they have good player and an okay coach which is more than they have had for over a decade.


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## Balbi (Jan 11, 2012)

More Northampton players than any other team in the England squad


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## flypanam (Jan 11, 2012)

At least the Lancaster is picking on form. Woods as captain?

Getting back to ireland I would really love to see Tiernan O’Halloran the Connacht winger get capt against Italy.


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## The Boy (Jan 11, 2012)

France squad named:

_Hookers:_ William Servat (Toulouse), Dimitri Szarzewski (Stade Français).

_Props:_ Vincent Debaty (Clermont), Fabien Barcella (Biarritz), Luc Ducalcon (Castres) Jean-Baptiste Poux (Toulouse), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan),

_Locks:_ Pascal Papé (Stade Français), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Lionel Nallet, Julien Pierre (Clermont).

_Loose forwards:_ Julien Bonnaire (Clermont), Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse/C), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse), Imanol Harinordoquy (Biarritz)

_Scrum-halves:_ Morgan Parra (Clermont), Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz)

_Fly-halves:_ François Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), Lionel Beauxis (Toulouse)

_Centres:_ Maxime Mermoz (Perpignan), Aurélien Rougerie (Clermont), Yann David (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana (Clermont)

_Outside backs: _Maxime Médard (Toulouse), Vincent Clerc (Toulouse), Alexis Palisson (Toulon), Julien Malzieu (Clermont), Clément Poitrenaud (Toulouse)

Not familiar with Debaty and haven't seen Nyanga play for a helluva long time.  Really need decent back up to Servat though, and it's not like there is a dearth of SHs so no idea why Yachcargot is there. Beauxis is playing well in the Top14 but has already shown before that he isn't up to it at this level.


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## flypanam (Jan 11, 2012)

The Boy said:


> France squad named:
> 
> _Hookers:_ William Servat (Toulouse), Dimitri Szarzewski (Stade Français).
> 
> ...



Thats a fuckin awesome side though. Bollocks.


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## starfish (Jan 11, 2012)

Scotland squad:
*Backs*: J Ansbro (London Irish), M Blair (Edinburgh), C Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), S Danielli (Ulster), N De Luca (Edinburgh), M Evans (Castres), S Hogg, R Jackson (both Glasgow Warriors), L Jones, G Laidlaw (both Edinburgh), R Lamont (Glasgow Warriors), S Lamont (Scarlets), R Lawson (Gloucester), G Morrison (Glasgow Warriors), D Parks (Cardiff Blues), S Shingler (London Irish) and D Weir (Glasgow Warriors). *Forwards*: J Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), K Brown (Saracens), G Cross, D Denton (both Edinburgh Rugby), A Dickinson (Sale Sharks), R Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), R Gray, D Hall (both Glasgow Warriors), J Hamilton (Gloucester), R Harley (Glasgow Warriors), A Jacobsen (Edinburgh), A Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), S Lawson (Gloucester), M Low (Glasgow Warriors), F McKenzie (Sale Sharks), E Murray (Newcastle Falcons), R Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby), A Strokosch (Gloucester) and R Vernon (Sale Sharks).

Jackson & Low have picked up injuries in the recent Scarlets game so both could miss the start. Hopefully we'll spring a few surprises this year. Our pack did well at the World Cup against England & Argentina, we just fell a bit short in midfield. If they can get that sorted then who knows. 3 away games & 2 on a sunday wont be in our favour. England first up at Murrayfield though.


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## Perroquet (Jan 12, 2012)

France
Ireland
Wales
England
Italy
Scotland


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## Perroquet (Jan 12, 2012)

I think England really have to be applauded for making such a fresh start with the new squad. Not sure it would've happened if Lancaster wasn't going to be in the job for long. They won't hold the title, but for once they're not expecting to.

France could go either way.
Ireland look set on paper, but that's nothing new. We could easily bottle it against France and Wales.
Wales should do well but probably won't.
Scotland and Italy will battle it out for the wooden spoon.

C'mon Ireland!


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## bendeus (Jan 13, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> I think England really have to be applauded for making such a fresh start with the new squad. Not sure it would've happened if Lancaster wasn't going to be in the job for long. They won't hold the title, but for once they're not expecting to.



We'll see about that. They've ditched a lot of the old heads. The wisdom of such a bold move will become more apparent in the fullness of time, but with backs against the wall in a windy, muddy shitfest, for example of the type the Jocks love to serve up at Murrayfield, they may find themselves wishing that they had a bit more than callow yoof in the key, decision-making positions (oh, and Charlie 'consistent' Hodgson at 10)



> France could go either way.



lol



> Ireland look set on paper, but that's nothing new. We could easily bottle it against France and Wales.



Really? I wouldn't say that Ireland look 'set on paper' at all. I'd say that they look less like winning it than they have in a long old time. Decent pack at last, but no proper 7, flakey halfbacks, and shorn of  B'OD that backline looks about as threatening as an Anthony Worrall-Thompson carjacking attempt.



> Wales should do well but probably won't.



There's no probably about it. Our golden generation will once more deliver mid-table medicrity.



> Scotland and Italy will battle it out for the wooden spoon.



And maybe England..........



> C'mon Ireland!



Please god, no.


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## bendeus (Jan 13, 2012)

starfish said:


> Scotland squad:
> *Backs*: J Ansbro (London Irish), M Blair (Edinburgh), C Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), S Danielli (Ulster), N De Luca (Edinburgh), M Evans (Castres), S Hogg, R Jackson (both Glasgow Warriors), L Jones, G Laidlaw (both Edinburgh), R Lamont (Glasgow Warriors), S Lamont (Scarlets), R Lawson (Gloucester), G Morrison (Glasgow Warriors), D Parks (Cardiff Blues), S Shingler (London Irish) and D Weir (Glasgow Warriors). *Forwards*: J Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), K Brown (Saracens), G Cross, D Denton (both Edinburgh Rugby), A Dickinson (Sale Sharks), R Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), R Gray, D Hall (both Glasgow Warriors), J Hamilton (Gloucester), R Harley (Glasgow Warriors), A Jacobsen (Edinburgh), A Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), S Lawson (Gloucester), M Low (Glasgow Warriors), F McKenzie (Sale Sharks), E Murray (Newcastle Falcons), R Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby), A Strokosch (Gloucester) and R Vernon (Sale Sharks).
> 
> Jackson & Low have picked up injuries in the recent Scarlets game so both could miss the start. Hopefully we'll spring a few surprises this year. Our pack did well at the World Cup against England & Argentina, we just fell a bit short in midfield. If they can get that sorted then who knows. 3 away games & 2 on a sunday wont be in our favour. England first up at Murrayfield though.



You can keep your hairy hands off our bois as well, you poaching bastards


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## bendeus (Jan 13, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Man of the tournament to be Toby Faletau.



Yes, he's a fucking wonderful player. I had the unbridled pleasure of seeing him live for the first time during the Blues/NGD game at the Stade de Ridsdale. He is absolutely immense. No wonder Ben Morgan chose England when he realised he'd have to get past Toby to nail down a starting berth in the Welsh backrow.



> Another thing - Ryan Jones' form at lock has been pretty tasty. He should start with Bradley for Wales



Ryan's one of those players who we will only realise we miss terribly when he finally retires. His form over the last two years, whether that be at lock, 8 or 6 has been inspirational. He's recognised his physical limitations and now plays with his head. Always making the right decisions, always where he needs to be.  An absolute bloody nuisance of a player to line up against. Only issue is his ball winning capability in the air. I fear for our lineout. I'd have Ian Evs there for the first 60 to provide a bit of assurance of securing our own ball off the setpice, tbh.



> I would also look at drafting in young McAuley Cook, who some of you might know was captain of Wales at the U20's recently. Blood him. Get him involved. Future captain material there.



Steady on! You made a right fool of yourself with your Priestland call, remember? 



> And have Mattie Morgan in the squad as a wild-card. What a talent



*woop, woop* This player has insufficient game management and too weak a defence for international duties at present.

I'd bring Nicky Robinson back as backup 10, but there's more chance of hell freezing over


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## 1927 (Jan 13, 2012)

Bendy, comments about Ryan are spot on. Over the last 20 years we have had a number of players who were physically not big enough to be true international class, but made up for it with their rugby brain. One of the best of these was Geraint Lewis, too small for a No8 in the modern game, but he had amazing foresight and that more than made up for his physical failings.


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## 1927 (Jan 13, 2012)

I would love to think that this will be the season when Italy finally put more than one decent performance together and take Scotland and England, but they'll prob do Wales over just to spite me now!

Wales
France
Ireland
Italy
England
Scotland


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## flypanam (Jan 13, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Really? I wouldn't say that Ireland look 'set on paper' at all. I'd say that they look less like winning it than they have in a long old time. Decent pack at last, but no proper 7, flakey halfbacks, and shorn of B'OD that backline looks about as threatening as an Anthony Worrall-Thompson carjacking attempt.



C'mon bendy that old chestnut about a 7 you've been pulling that one out for 6 months now. Your right but find another way to put it. 

As for our halfbacks well they are about as good as yours and the French. Boss not murray has to be the call. Sexton if his mammy did'n't wind him up about 'Letting the bigs boys bully him' would be quite decent (incidently I think Sexton is fast morphing into the Sun's typical image of a paedo.)

Fitzgerald to 12. I'd put O'Malley in at 13 for the Italy/scotland games. McFadden for the rest. Tommy and Earls (urgh!) or O'Hallororan and Carr and Kearney (who since he's not shagging soap stars is doing a good impression of a full back.

Not quite Worrell Thompson but decidely more dangerous than Powell on a golf cart.


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## flypanam (Jan 13, 2012)

1927 said:


> I would love to think that this will be the season when Italy do Wales over just to spite me now!



Agreed!


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## bendeus (Jan 13, 2012)

flypanam said:


> C'mon bendy that old chestnut about a 7 you've been pulling that one out for 6 months now. Your right but find another way to put it.
> 
> As for our halfbacks well they are about as good as yours and the French. Boss not murray has to be the call. Sexton if his mammy did'n't wind him up about 'Letting the bigs boys bully him' would be quite decent (incidently I think Sexton is fast morphing into the Sun's typical image of a paedo.)
> 
> ...



I could pretend to be a South African and say that you lack an out-and-out jackalling 6? (or "en it and it jickilling six?")

Your halfbacks are not about as good as ours, butt . O'Flakey and O'Speedbump vs. Wellington and The Priest? Nah. Who are your scrum halves again? Neither would get into a Lions test side in front of Spikey Pikey Mikey.

We'll lose against you in Dublin, mind


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## Perroquet (Jan 13, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Really? I wouldn't say that Ireland look 'set on paper' at all. I'd say that they look less like winning it than they have in a long old time. Decent pack at last, but no proper 7, flakey halfbacks, and shorn of B'OD that backline looks about as threatening as an Anthony Worrall-Thompson carjacking attempt.



Sean O'Brien is definitely a proper no.7. He was phenomenal in the WC.
Plenty to choose from for HBs. Have you been watching Leinster and Munster this seasons?
O'Driscoll will be missed but Leinster's performance in this season's Celtic League and Heineken Cup has shown that the job can be done without him. Fergus McFadden has really stepped up in his absence.



bendeus said:


> Please god, no.



Oh Christ, yes!!!! 

edit: I've only just seen that flypanam beat me to it, and put it far better.


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 13, 2012)

Italy to win this time.


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## bendeus (Jan 13, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> Sean O'Brien is definitely a proper no.7. He was phenomenal in the WC.



O'Brien is a fucking wonderful player, don't get me wrong, but a 7 he ain't. Just  because he wears the number on his back does not make him an openside. He's a ball carrying 6, possibly 6.5, but no 7 in the way that the modern game requires a 7 to play. Think Pocock, McCaw, Warburton.

Wales exposed the deficiencies in the Irish backrow in the WC. Stop SOB, Heaslip and Ferris on the gainline and you nullify a lot of their game. Then add in the balance that a proper, grafting six and a clever, jackalling 7 bring to the party and the Irish are all at sea. There's some clear ways to beat that team, imo.



> Plenty to choose from for HBs. Have you been watching Leinster and Munster this seasons?



Yes, and as I've gone on record saying in previous posts, you can't read anything into somebody's international calibre by their performances at regional/HEC level. Sexton and O'Gara are both fine, fine club level fly halves. At international level? Nah. Too flakey, too tempremental, too unpredictable.



> O'Driscoll will be missed but Leinster's performance in this season's Celtic League and Heineken Cup has shown that the job can be done without him. Fergus McFadden has really stepped up in his absence.



We'll see. The amount of times BOD has singlehandedly hauled your boys out of the mire is incredible. McFadden looks decent enough, but we'll see again if he can deliver at the highest level when it really counts.



> Oh Christ, yes!!!!



It is, without doubt, Ireland's year.


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## Perroquet (Jan 13, 2012)

bendeus said:


> O'Brien is a fucking wonderful player, don't get me wrong, but a 7 he ain't. Just because he wears the number on his back does not make him an openside. He's a ball carrying 6, possibly 6.5, but no 7 in the way that the modern game requires a 7 to play. Think Pocock, McCaw, Warburton.



True enough. You'll often see Healy doing that for him.


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## bendeus (Jan 13, 2012)

Gethin Jenkins lite.


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## Infidel Castro (Jan 13, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Thats a fuckin awesome side though. Bollocks.



More like it's a very familiar side (give or take).  That can cut both ways.  I've seen those players fall apart.  Nice.


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## Infidel Castro (Jan 13, 2012)

starfish said:


> Scotland squad:
> *Backs*: J Ansbro (London Irish), M Blair (Edinburgh), C Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), S Danielli (Ulster), N De Luca (Edinburgh), M Evans (Castres), S Hogg, R Jackson (both Glasgow Warriors), L Jones, G Laidlaw (both Edinburgh), R Lamont (Glasgow Warriors), S Lamont (Scarlets), R Lawson (Gloucester), G Morrison (Glasgow Warriors), D Parks (Cardiff Blues),  and D Weir (Glasgow Warriors). *Forwards*: J Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), K Brown (Saracens), G Cross, D Denton (both Edinburgh Rugby), A Dickinson (Sale Sharks), R Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), R Gray, D Hall (both Glasgow Warriors), J Hamilton (Gloucester), R Harley (Glasgow Warriors), A Jacobsen (Edinburgh), A Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), S Lawson (Gloucester), M Low (Glasgow Warriors), F McKenzie (Sale Sharks), E Murray (Newcastle Falcons), R Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby), A Strokosch (Gloucester) and R Vernon (Sale Sharks).
> 
> Jackson & Low have picked up injuries in the recent Scarlets game so both could miss the start. Hopefully we'll spring a few surprises this year. Our pack did well at the World Cup against England & Argentina, we just fell a bit short in midfield. If they can get that sorted then who knows. 3 away games & 2 on a sunday wont be in our favour. England first up at Murrayfield though.



Fixed. Removed Shingler.  And I don't care if it's already been done.  Ha!


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## Mr Retro (Jan 13, 2012)

Anybody going to make it to a game? Going to the England v Ireland on Paddies day with a posse from Amsterdam. Should be fantastic, even better if a team is going for a triple crown or championship or (unlikely) Grand Slam. 

Bendeus is bang on about the vital importance of an out and out 7. Wales beat us in the world cup because they had one (as well as a genius at 9) and we didn't.


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## Infidel Castro (Jan 13, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Yes, he's a fucking wonderful player. I had the unbridled pleasure of seeing him live for the first time during the Blues/NGD game at the Stade de Ridsdale. He is absolutely immense. No wonder Ben Morgan chose England when he realised he'd have to get past Toby to nail down a starting berth in the Welsh backrow.



Yes, but remember Morgan is, was and always will be and Englishman...only it took him a few years to work it out.  Mercenary bastard.  Played everyone for a year and then remembered he was Saes when Johnson left.  For a 22yr old, quite possibly THE most 'professional' attitude I've ever seen, if you count 'cynical as fuck' in the professional repertoire.  Which I suppose we do.  I was there for the Blues v NGD as well.  Shit atmos, lifted by a bit of Fal.  What a boy.  I love the fact he looks about 40 in the face.



bendeus said:


> Ryan's one of those players who we will only realise we miss terribly when he finally retires. His form over the last two years, whether that be at lock, 8 or 6 has been inspirational. He's recognised his physical limitations and now plays with his head. Always making the right decisions, always where he needs to be. An absolute bloody nuisance of a player to line up against. Only issue is his ball winning capability in the air. I fear for our lineout. I'd have Ian Evs there for the first 60 to provide a bit of assurance of securing our own ball off the setpice, tbh.



I can agree with what you're saying, but we have to make sure RJ is involved.  He'll be key to winning in Ireland somehow somewhere.  I love him in a manly way.



bendeus said:


> Steady on! You made a right fool of yourself with your Priestland call, remember?





I'll retire on that one...



bendeus said:


> *woop, woop* This player has insufficient game management and too weak a defence for international duties at present.



Wildcard lad, wildcard.  Worth a punt.



bendeus said:


> I'd bring Nicky Robinson back as backup 10, but there's more chance of hell freezing over



Yes and no.  I've always been yes and no with him.  His last season for the Blues was awesome.


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## Infidel Castro (Jan 13, 2012)

1927 said:


> Bendy, comments about Ryan are spot on. Over the last 20 years we have had a number of players who were physically not big enough to be true international class, but made up for it with their rugby brain. One of the best of these was Geraint Lewis, too small for a No8 in the modern game, but he had amazing foresight and that more than made up for his physical failings.



Weird isn't it...2005 was built on two of them:  M Williams and M Owen.  It was the last year that they could have done what they did in my opinion.  The game changed so quickly after that.

Geraint Lewis was class though, btw.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Jan 13, 2012)

1927 said:


> I would love to think that this will be the season when Italy finally put more than one decent performance together and take Scotland and England, but they'll prob do Wales over just to spite me now!
> 
> Wales
> France
> ...



If that happens I will buy you several ales.  I'd love it.  Ireland away first game.  Tough....


----------



## Infidel Castro (Jan 13, 2012)

Mr Retro said:


> Anybody going to make it to a game? Going to the England v Ireland on Paddies day with a posse from Amsterdam. Should be fantastic, even better if a team is going for a triple crown or championship or (unlikely) Grand Slam.
> 
> Bendeus is bang on about the vital importance of an out and out 7. Wales beat us in the world cup because they had one (as well as a genius at 9) and we didn't.



Going to games is so passe!

Can't get tickets see...

Or maybe I can't be bothered and prefer the pub.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 13, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Going to games is so passe!
> 
> Can't get tickets see...
> 
> Or maybe I can't be bothered and prefer the pub.



Getting tickets is very hard. This time I have swallowed more pride than a man should - "hey man, blast from the past here, how are you? Etc. etc. etc. 'hey! Any chance of tickets ....' "


----------



## Infidel Castro (Jan 13, 2012)

I've always fancied a full-house v a home nation, but the logistics of getting the whole gang there are appalling.  And I do like the pub....


----------



## The Boy (Jan 13, 2012)

My boss might have a spare ticket for scotland - France.  Have been the last 4 times at murrayfield so will proibably try and scrape the casdh together.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 13, 2012)

The Boy said:


> My boss might have a spare ticket for scotland - France.  Have been the last 4 times at murrayfield so will proibably try and scrape the casdh together.



Reckon you would get a ticket for that game easily enough. I wonder if it will even be a sell out


----------



## The Boy (Jan 13, 2012)

Yeah, but it's better going with someone else


----------



## 1927 (Jan 14, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Weird isn't it...2005 was built on two of them: M Williams and M Owen. It was the last year that they could have done what they did in my opinion. The game changed so quickly after that.
> 
> Geraint Lewis was class though, btw.



Geraint could prob have played pro cricket too if he had wished. Played against him once, tried to flick one down the leg side and got caught with a nippy one (its all he bowls-quick as fuck) on the inside of my thigh. Burst a blood vessel and my whole upper leg filled with blood. Bumped into him at Stanstead airport 4 months later and he recognised me as the guy he had slain at Llantwit Fardre and asked me how the leg was. He was very apologetic when I showed him I was still black and blue!


----------



## 1927 (Jan 14, 2012)

Mr Retro said:


> Getting tickets is very hard. This time I have swallowed more pride than a man should - "hey man, blast from the past here, how are you? Etc. etc. etc. 'hey! Any chance of tickets ....' "



Amazingly getting tickets for Wales this season was easy. They were on general sale.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Jan 14, 2012)

Wrong thread, but good to see the Blues get the win against the PP's.  One more win against a disinterested French team and we're there...


----------



## starfish (Jan 15, 2012)

bendeus said:


> You can keep your hairy hands off our bois as well, you poaching bastards



Looks like youre getting him back though i dont know why you would want him after he rejected you in the first place.


----------



## Grandma Death (Jan 17, 2012)

Jamie Roberts looking unlikely for the irish match.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 17, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Jamie Roberts looking unlikely for the irish match.



That is a shame, good for Ireland but bad for the actual game. We'll see who he would have been up against tomorrow when Kidney announces his squad. I'm not expecting any surprises but I would like to see Darren Cave/MR T in at 13 rather than Earls who had an absolute shocker on Saturday some good lines but poor handling and worse pass and deserves to be omitted.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 18, 2012)

Looks like Gav in in the Welsh squad.

Also there is a possibility that Rhys Ruddock will be named in the Ireland squad.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 18, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Looks like Gav in in the Welsh squad.
> 
> Also there is a possibility that Rhys Ruddock will be named in the Ireland squad.



I so hope Gav pulls it out of the bag and has a blinder of a 6 Nations, and then me and Bendy can scream "We fucking told you so you unbelieving so and so's" ( in know that is an incorrect use of an aposytrophe but sos looks stupid)


----------



## flypanam (Jan 18, 2012)

Ireland squad

*Ireland Squad (24):* Rory Best (Banbridge – Ulster), Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Tom Court (Malone – Ulster), Sean Cronin (St.Mary’s College – Leinster), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College – Leinster), Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne – Leinster), Keith Earls (Young Munster – Munster), Stephen Ferris (Dungannon – Ulster), Cian Healy (Clontarf – Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Naas – Leinster), Shane Jennings (St.Mary’s College – Leinster), Rob Kearney (UCD – Leinster), Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere – Leinster), Conor Murray (Garryowen – Munster), Sean O'Brien (Clontarf – Leinster), Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution – Munster), Paul O'Connell (Young Munster – Munster), Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution – Munster), Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne – Leinster), Mike Ross (Clontarf – Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon – Munster), Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary’s College – Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ballymena – Ulster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena – Ulster)
*Additional players (6):* Ian Nagle (Cork Constitution – Munster)*, Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution – Munster)*, Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians – Connacht)*, Paddy McAllister (Ballynahinch – Ulster)*, Andrew Conway (Blackrock College – Leinster)*, Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution – Munster)*

No happy with that squad at all. There are players who time has gone and like old horses should be put out to pasture or the glue factory. Declan Kidney is not the coach Ireland need at this point in time. Essentially he's picked his quarter final failures for another 6 nations I doubt we'll see any new caps this season. He's excelling in mediocrity again, no doubt with a powerpoint presentation.

How Zebo is considered good enough for an additional place I really dunno. Good to see O'Halloran and Conway in though. And Luke Fitzgerald only makes the 'hounds. Kidney is a balloon.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 18, 2012)

You just know that with the Inclusion of Lou Reed in the Welsh squad there are already headline writers wishing events to go a certain way!!!

I can see the Echo headline tomorrow, "Gatland takes walk on the wild side with Lou Reed selection". If we win and he has a good game it will be "Perfect Day for Wales as Reed stars!" I hope it isnt "Stupid Man Gatland as Reed flops!"


----------



## Grandma Death (Jan 18, 2012)

WALES SQUAD

Backs: Mike Phillips (Bayonne), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Rhys Preistland (Scarlets), James Hook (Perpignan), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets),ScottWilliams (Scarlets), Gavin Henson (Cardiff Blues), Ashley Beck (Ospreys), George North (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues), Alex Cuthbert(Cardiff Blues), Harry Robinson (Cardiff Blues), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Lee Bryne (Clermont Auvergne)

Forwards: Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), Adam Jones (Ospreys),Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins(Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Ospreys), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Matthew Rees (Scarlets), Huw Bennett(Ospreys),KenOwens (Scarlets),BradleyDavies (Cardiff Blues), Ian Evans(Ospreys),Lou Reed(Scarlets),Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Newport Gwent Dragons), Sam Warburton(capt, Cardiff Blues), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Toby Faletau (NewportGwent Dragons), Andy Powell (Sale Sharks).


----------



## Grandma Death (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm glad Henson is in.  I've been quite impressed with him since he's been playing with the blues.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 18, 2012)

flypanam said:


> That is a shame, good for Ireland but bad for the actual game. We'll see who he would have been up against tomorrow when Kidney announces his squad. I'm not expecting any surprises but I would like to see Darren Cave/MR T in at 13 rather than Earls who had an absolute shocker on Saturday some good lines but poor handling and worse pass and deserves to be omitted.



I would like to see Keeturls at 13 and Fitzgerald at 12 facing Roberts and Henson at 12/13. Then I would laugh, and laugh and laugh. In fact, I'd like to see any centre combination you toothless old dawgs may want to field against Roberts and Henson. Then I would laugh, and laugh and laugh again


----------



## bendeus (Jan 18, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Looks like Gav in in the Welsh squad.
> 
> Also there is a possibility that Rhys Ruddock will be named in the Ireland squad.



Well-known Irishman, Rhys Ap Rhyddyg?

Fucking Quisling


----------



## bendeus (Jan 18, 2012)

1927 said:


> You just know that with the Inclusion of Lou Reed in the Welsh squad there are already headline writers wishing events to go a certain way!!!
> 
> I can see the Echo headline tomorrow, "Gatland takes walk on the wild side with Lou Reed selection". If we win and he has a good game it will be "Perfect Day for Wales as Reed stars!" I hope it isnt "Stupid Man Gatland as Reed flops!"



You could expect no less from the Fail.

Should've picked Day over Reed, IMO


----------



## bendeus (Jan 18, 2012)

1927 said:


> I so hope Gav pulls it out of the bag and has a blinder of a 6 Nations, and then me and Bendy can scream "We fucking told you so you unbelieving so and so's" ( in know that is an incorrect use of an aposytrophe but sos looks stupid)



I don't need to scream it. Ifuckingknowsit already.

I still wake up with damp sheets at the thought of Roberts and Henson playing off Spikey and The Priest. Could be beautiful to behold


----------



## bendeus (Jan 18, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> WALES SQUAD
> 
> Backs: Mike Phillips (Bayonne), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Rhys Preistland (Scarlets), James Hook (Perpignan), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets),ScottWilliams (Scarlets), Gavin Henson (Cardiff Blues), Ashley Beck (Ospreys), George North (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues), Alex Cuthbert(Cardiff Blues), Harry Robinson (Cardiff Blues), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Lee Bryne (Clermont Auvergne)
> 
> Forwards: Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), Adam Jones (Ospreys),Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins(Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Ospreys), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Matthew Rees (Scarlets), Huw Bennett(Ospreys),KenOwens (Scarlets),BradleyDavies (Cardiff Blues), Ian Evans(Ospreys),Lou Reed(Scarlets),Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Newport Gwent Dragons), Sam Warburton(capt, Cardiff Blues), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Toby Faletau (NewportGwent Dragons), Andy Powell (Sale Sharks).



Of these:

Gethin, Rees, Adam
  Bradley, Ian Evs
Lydiate, Toby, Sam

North, Roberts, Henson, The Priest, Spikey, 1/2p

                              Byrne

Bench: Ryan, Lloyd Williams, Bennett, James, Hook, Tipuric, J. Davies


----------



## 1927 (Jan 18, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Of these:
> 
> Gethin, Rees, Adam
> Bradley, Ian Evs
> ...



Give us the trophy now!lol


----------



## bendeus (Jan 18, 2012)

1927 said:


> Give us the trophy now!lol



Aye. Imagine Charteris and AWJ in the mix as well. Big loss at lock.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm really disappointed, but not surprised by that Ireland squad. DC is turning into EOS mk2. I would have liked to see a few more bolters - some younger players in there. I wouldn't be surprised if Trimble is the only change from the QF. Donnacha Ryan and McFadden should be starting.


----------



## Grandma Death (Jan 18, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Of these:
> 
> Gethin, Rees, Adam
> Bradley, Ian Evs
> ...



I hope Hooks finger is out of his arse after the RWC.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 18, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I hope Hooks finger is out of his arse after the RWC.


Doubt it, tbh.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 19, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I'm really disappointed, but not surprised by that Ireland squad. DC is turning into EOS mk2. I would have liked to see a few more bolters - some younger players in there. I wouldn't be surprised if Trimble is the only change from the QF. Donnacha Ryan and McFadden should be starting.



You and I know Ryan won't start, more than likely Kidney will have Doc and Poc as his starting lock combination with Cullen as back up. I think Ryan will be in to cover at lock and backrow which means I doubt he'll even see the bench. Kidney had a real chance here, he could have put Touhy in for Doc and Ruddock (whose mum is Irish and was educated in Ireland. If only we were Semities!) on the bench I'd be happier. Kidney is conservative as hell and does make Eo's look like a bastion of total rugby but his selection of the additional players may mean Nagle, Conway et al might get a little cameo role in the Italy game.

Unfortunately Bendy is right we've got fuck in the centres, it's a depressing thought but the players who fell off the most tackles in the WC will be our centre conbination. Earls and D'Arse. I would love to see Mcfadden in at 12 and Bowe at 13 for that Welsh game.

Looking a the wolfhounds thats a much more exciting squad and one which if I could would follow more closely.

eta it seems i'm wrong from todays Irish Times...
"Unlike his counterparts, Kidney does not name a Six Nations squad per se, so it isn’t necessarily the case that yesterday’s unveiling of a 24-man squad, a 22-man Wolfhounds squad and the six tyros to beef up next week’s training, represents clear demarcation lines.
A clearer indication will be the 30-man squad named on Monday week, a day after the Wolfhounds’ game, and seven days before the Welsh encounter."


----------



## flypanam (Jan 26, 2012)

The Priest and Cian Healy fatter are out for next weeks game. Maybe Hooky at 10 or maybe even Gav to prop for the Welsh boys.

Actually it's a shame they are out. In all 6 nations games I'd like to see the strongest possible squads, which in England's case could be the St Alban's Missionary Nuns 2nd XV (under 16 girls.) Who will be cursing their lucky knickers, having the honour of listening that one eyed swamp donkey Gary Neville about the frustrations of this 'Ingerland' career. I think they also have Jamie Peacock talking to them who I think would be very interesting.


----------



## Grandma Death (Jan 26, 2012)

Stuart Lancaster doesn't come across as particularly sharp on tv or is it my imagination?  He keeps rehashing lines too. I love the fact he's stating his aims to want to apply for the job even before england have even kicked the ball.  Either he's supremely confident or an arrogant cocky prick.  I hope Scotland spank em big time.  That and a welsh victory opening weekend may result in a tiny sex wee in my pants.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 27, 2012)

Spawny Irish are Spawny. That's our first choice 1,4,5,6, 10, and 12 all out or likely . You might even get parity at the scrum at this rate


----------



## flypanam (Jan 30, 2012)

Now we just need your 8 not to play and we may just scrum you off the park.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2012)

£10 on Wales for the Tripple Crown
£10 on Wales for the Grand Slam

Wish me luck


----------



## elfman (Jan 30, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Stuart Lancaster doesn't come across as particularly sharp on tv or is it my imagination? He keeps rehashing lines too. I love the fact he's stating his aims to want to apply for the job even before england have even kicked the ball. Either he's supremely confident or an arrogant cocky prick. I hope Scotland spank em big time. That and a welsh victory opening weekend may result in a tiny sex wee in my pants.



I don't think he comes across as arrogant at all and I don't see what's wrong with stating that he would like to keep the job long term. Being an international coach is where any coach would love to be.

I'm backing down slightly on my prediction already though. Too many injuries there, mainly for the first couple of games. We won't have a consistent starting line up.

Looking at it now then I'd say:

France
Wales
England
Ireland
Scotland
Italy

And there won't be a grand slam either.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 30, 2012)

Armitage out of the squad after being a cunt again

But, of course, to point out yet another example of what an odious bunch of shits a large proportion of the England squad appear to be makes me an egregious racist, clearly


----------



## bendeus (Jan 30, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Now we just need your 8 not to play and we may just scrum you off the park.



Just our number 8 or our entire front 8?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 30, 2012)

elfman said:


> I don't think he comes across as arrogant at all and I don't see what's wrong with stating that he would like to keep the job long term. Being an international coach is where any coach would love to be.
> 
> I'm backing down slightly on my prediction already though. Too many injuries there, mainly for the first couple of games. We won't have a consistent starting line up.
> 
> ...



You think you'll finish above the Irish?

lol


----------



## gabi (Jan 30, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Armitage out of the squad after being a cunt again
> 
> But, of course, to point out yet another example of what an odious bunch of shits a large proportion of the England squad appear to be makes me an egregious racist, clearly



At least the new regime are actually disciplining the players unlike Johnson who seemed to excuse their behaviour in NZ and even blamed the media for the whole debacle


----------



## Grandma Death (Jan 30, 2012)

elfman said:


> I don't think he comes across as arrogant at all and I don't see what's wrong with stating that he would like to keep the job long term. Being an international coach is where any coach would love to be.
> 
> I'm backing down slightly on my prediction already though. Too many injuries there, mainly for the first couple of games. We won't have a consistent starting line up.
> 
> ...



I didnt say he was coming across as arrogant. I said he's either supremely confident or arrogant. The arrogant bit is that he's unproven at this level and England havent even kicked the ball yet...he should hold his horses before stating his intention...by stating his aim before he's even proven himself suggests arrogance or confidence IMO.


----------



## Grandma Death (Jan 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> At least the new regime are actually disciplining the players unlike Johnson who seemed to excuse their behaviour in NZ and even blamed the media for the whole debacle



This. The way the management team conducted themselves in NZ frankly was shocking...it was a PR disaster for them.


----------



## elfman (Jan 30, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Armitage out of the squad after being a cunt again
> 
> But, of course, to point out yet another example of what an odious bunch of shits a large proportion of the England squad appear to be makes me an egregious racist, clearly


From my experience, rugby players attract a large proportion of wankers. Even though most of my rugby playing experience is in England, this doesn't only include English players or those playing in England.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 30, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> £10 on Wales for the Tripple Crown
> £10 on Wales for the Grand Slam
> 
> Wish me luck



even if I wanted to, I can't. I've £20 on Ireland.


----------



## elfman (Jan 30, 2012)

bendeus said:


> You think you'll finish above the Irish?
> 
> lol


----------



## Grandma Death (Jan 30, 2012)

Bendeus-how do you rate Wales chances against the Irish? Im starting to feel quite pessimistic now. I think Ive read that 8 of the original RWC squad are out...that right?? I think Priestland and Gethin out is a huge blow.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 30, 2012)

elfman said:


> From my experience, rugby players attract a large proportion of wankers. Even though most of my rugby playing experience is in England, this doesn't only include English players or those playing in England.



True, but the examples of the high profile Engish players, Andy Powell, KEarls to name just a few, shows how far up their own backside pro's are becoming. They earn too much, they are treated too well and are mostly selfish fucking children. Not, of course all of them most are fairly humble and still rooted in their community (mainly in Wales and Ireland and NZ i think)

At least in amateur if some one was a knob you could smack the fecker hard. They would soon stop being wankers after a a good shoeing.


----------



## Grandma Death (Jan 30, 2012)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16788074.stm



> *World Cup-winning coach Graham Henry has criticised England for being "the world champions at wasting talent" and playing "a game based on fear".*
> Henry guided New Zealand to World Cup success as coach in October, while England exited in the quarter-finals.
> He told the rugbysite.com: "It seems that England are world champions at wasting talent.
> "At national level and club level, English teams are far too worried about securing possession."
> ...


----------



## flypanam (Jan 30, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16788074.stm



He's not angling for a job is he?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 30, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Bendeus-how do you rate Wales chances against the Irish? Im starting to feel quite pessimistic now. I think Ive read that 8 of the original RWC squad are out...that right?? I think Priestland and Gethin out is a huge blow.



We're going to lose out in Dublin. Lydiate and his ability to make the tackles on the gainline against SOB is a huge loss, as is the the flat, gainline play and running threat the Priest brings. A full strength Wales, maybe, a badly denuded one - can't see it happening.

E2A: the number of times our Lions front row have played together since the Lions tour of SA is 3. FFS!


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 30, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Sexton and O'Gara are both fine, fine club level fly halves. At international level? Nah. Too flakey, too tempremental, too unpredictable.



LOL 
The 4th most prolific points scorer in international rugby union is too flakey, tempremental and unpredictable...

LOLZ


e2a:  Hope Kidney stops this ridiculous Sexton experiment.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 30, 2012)

I was very pessimistic regarding the opening game, and in particular the loss of BOD- however with 3 teams in the HEC knockouts, our backs can't all be numpties.  Back McFadden to do well alongside D'Arcy.

If Wales win the opening game, they have to be backed for the slam.
If Ireland win the opening game, they'll still get dicked on by France.
The only team I can see France losing to is Wales.

Looking at maybe a 3 way tie at the top of the table, decided by points difference.

Italy have to struggle with new management etc- their game with Scotland is at home.  That could swing it for them.
I can see Scotland raising their game for the Calcutta Cup, but not being able to mask the fact that they are, in fact, shit.
I can see England beating Italy, sadly.

That would leave a 3 way tie at the bottom, also decided on points.

Head says Wales to win the slam, heart says Ireland to win the championship on points.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 30, 2012)

Too flakey, tempremental and unpredictable to ever secure a Lions test start, yes. Did you see his 'contribution' to the second test? The third best British and Irish 10 of his generation.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 30, 2012)

presumably you mean behind Wilko and Jenkins?

Then I'm glad that we can agree Kidney should drop the Sexton experiment...


----------



## bendeus (Jan 30, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> presumably you mean behind Wilko and Jenkins?
> 
> Then I'm glad that we can agree Kidney should drop the Sexton experiment...



Blimey! Forgot Jinks. Make that 4th 

As you say, I'd have him in my side rather than Sexton, mind. He's not even in the top ten.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 30, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> I was very pessimistic regarding the opening game, and in particular the loss of BOD- however with 3 teams in the HEC knockouts, our backs can't all be numpties. Back McFadden to do well alongside D'Arcy.
> 
> If Wales win the opening game, they have to be backed for the slam.
> If Ireland win the opening game, they'll still get dicked on by France.
> ...



RF, you _always _predict great things for Wales, bless ya. Surely, and all blips aside, the only thing you can confidently predict from Wales is consistent and frustrating underachievement.

Think the Jocks could do better than in previous seasons event though they are, as you say, in fact shit. They are less shit than they used to be, and after my initial prediction of Jocko doom, I am starting to get that kind of weird feeling I often get before they turn the Saes over. This could really happen this season, IMO.


----------



## elfman (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm going to join a fantasy league for this. Not many joined the RWC one, but if people are interested I'll have a look for a good en and set up a league


----------



## bendeus (Jan 30, 2012)

elfman said:


> I'm going to join a fantasy league for this. Not many joined the RWC one, but if people are interested I'll have a look for a good en and set up a league



Sounds good.


----------



## elfman (Jan 30, 2012)

Ok. I decided on the Guiness one.

http://fantasyrugby.guinness.com

Your league name is: Urban75
Your password is: englandwillwin

I hope you all like the password!!


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 30, 2012)

elfman said:


> Ok. I decided on the Guiness one.
> 
> http://fantasyrugby.guinness.com
> 
> ...


very difficult to select players
does it differentiate between hookers and props?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 30, 2012)

Simon Zebo- man of the tournament


----------



## The Boy (Jan 30, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> very difficult to select players
> does it differentiate between hookers and props?



Not if my initial selection was anything to by


----------



## elfman (Jan 31, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> very difficult to select players
> does it differentiate between hookers and props?



If people want, I can try the ESPN one instead? Or maybe I should just stick with this one so it doesn't confuse people...


----------



## gabi (Jan 31, 2012)

I set up the WC one - for some reason rugby just isn't conducive to fantasy leagues in the same way as football... it was just really really confusing. perhaps because unlike football, coaches often move players into different positions in rugby..?

i dunno. just didnt work. altho i think the knock-out factor of a tournament like the WC wasn't helpful either. maybe a tourney like the 6 nations will be better...will give it a crack i guess.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 31, 2012)

elfman said:


> Ok. I decided on the Guiness one.
> 
> http://fantasyrugby.guinness.com
> 
> ...



i have joined this, after about 20 mins of trying to work the FUCKING THING OUT


----------



## flypanam (Jan 31, 2012)

Irish Times has an article today about English rugby and the whole respect/arrogance thing.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0131/1224311001459.html


----------



## flypanam (Jan 31, 2012)

Saint Andre got everything right from 9-15, though I'd put Harin. in instead of Picamoles if I was picking Yachvilli. Never heard of the loose head.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7467623,00.html


----------



## The Boy (Jan 31, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Saint Andre got everything right from 9-15, though I'd put Harin. in instead of Picamoles if I was picking Yachvilli. Never heard of the loose head.
> 
> http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7467623,00.html


 
Not quite.  Still can't understand the fascination with platying Rougerie at 13.  Yachcargot is slower than a slow thing.

loose head plays for ASM iirc.  Never seen him play but highly rated.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 31, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Too flakey, tempremental and unpredictable to ever secure a Lions test start, yes. Did you see his 'contribution' to the second test? The third best British and Irish 10 of his generation.


Like f**k. Still harping on about that because it's all you have to go on, he's played 10 for one of the most successful teams in recent history.

I think the priestland injury is a silly con by gatland btw, he'll start, but we will be out for revenge and to restore the natural order.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Like f**k. Still harping on about that because it's all you have to go on, he's played 10 for one of the most successful teams in recent history.
> 
> I think the priestland injury is a silly con by gatland btw, he'll start, but we will be out for revenge and to restore the natural order.



Yes. A club side. Is this where we start the annual circle jerk?  

Don't think Gats has the brains to pretend the Priest is injured, tbh.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 1, 2012)

Oh, and 'natural order'? Shall we count grandslams, or would that give you vertigo?


----------



## flypanam (Feb 1, 2012)

Wet yrself bendy, you may just win this one...Keith 'the fall off' Earls in for B'OD. One bonus is at least Peter O'Mahony makes the bench Otherwiswe Kidney is obviously not taking the conservative path  Priests eh?

*Ireland:* Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster); Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster), Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster); Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster); Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster), Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster); Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster), Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster); Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster), Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster).
*Replacements:* Sean Cronin (St. Mary’s College/Leinster), Tom Court (Malone/Ulster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster), Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster), Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster), Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster).


----------



## bendeus (Feb 1, 2012)

Earls in the centre is brilliant news. Matthew Rees being ruled out is most certainly not. The thought of POC picking off our lineout scares me. That front row is fucking cursed.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 2, 2012)

If the rumoured Welsh XV is what it is then it's game on. Roberts and the Priest will start. 1/2p at 15. Gill at 1 should be interesting. Ryan in for Lydiate at 6.


----------



## elfman (Feb 3, 2012)

elfman said:


> Ok. I decided on the Guiness one.
> 
> http://fantasyrugby.guinness.com
> 
> ...


 

Right. Everyone should of been added to the league. If anyone else needs adding then quote me on here so get the alert. I'm entertaining friends for the next few days, so won't be on the internetz as much.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 3, 2012)

Looks like the rumours are true: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16773386

Fair fucks, sleater - was your Priestland hunch just a hunch or had there been any speculation in the Irish media, etc?


----------



## flypanam (Feb 3, 2012)

I'd say he had a hunch. Smoke and mirrors is very much part of Gatland's make up. Good to see the Welsh boys in should be game of the weekend. Hopefully we'll come out on top this time.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 3, 2012)

I've just heard earls is out for the irish???


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 3, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16789638


----------



## flypanam (Feb 3, 2012)

Thank fuck for that. Yup he's out. Fergus Mcfadden is in, with Dave K sitting on the bench. Our midfield looks alot stronger on defense though will have lost something in attack. Have i mentioned...

THANK FUCK FOR THAT!

eta I hope his newborn girl is okay. She's sick in hospital.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 3, 2012)

*Italy for the grand slam anyone *

*Total stake: £ 10.00 
Balance: £ 10.00*

*Potential returns: £7510.00*


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 3, 2012)

In part I'm looking forward to this but I also know its going to be a tough tournement for England.  I think the Indy had it about right when it predicted:
France
Ireland
Wales
England
Scotland
Italy


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 3, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Looks like the rumours are true: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/16773386
> 
> Fair fucks, sleater - was your Priestland hunch just a hunch or had there been any speculation in the Irish media, etc?


 
Oh come on, it looked exactly like the kind of gormless stunt Gatland would attempt.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 3, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Oh come on, it looked exactly like the kind of gormless stunt Gatland would attempt.


 
I think you're wrong there. He has shown uncharacteristic nous and restraint thus far - not gobbing off about the oppo and playing coy about who would be fit are not things he has done previously, hence my response to your original post.

I wouldn't call this a 'gormless stunt' at all. It actually displays some acumen. Without the Priest Wales play in a very different way. If Ireland's defensive patterns this week have been organised to defend against a Wellies or Hook orchestrated Wales then they will to a degree have been blindsided.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 3, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I think you're wrong there. He has shown uncharacteristic nous and restraint thus far - not gobbing off about the oppo and playing coy about who would be fit are not things he has done previously, hence my response to your original post.
> 
> I wouldn't call this a 'gormless stunt' at all. It actually displays some acumen. Without the Priest Wales play in a very different way. If Ireland's defensive patterns this week have been organised to defend against a Wellies or Hook orchestrated Wales then they will to a degree have been blindsided.


I would really hope if I can sus him then out coaching team will have too. It was gormless - I remember reading Edward's blog on the guardian and smelling it a mile off.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 3, 2012)

McFadden in is good news, hope Earls kid is ok .


----------



## bendeus (Feb 3, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I would really hope if I can sus him then out coaching team will have too. It was gormless - I remember reading Edward's blog on the guardian and smelling it a mile off.



So you don't think it makes any difference that Ireland's defensive drills will have been for two, rather than one, set of attacking patterns?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 3, 2012)

bendeus said:


> So you don't think it makes any difference that Ireland's defensive drills will have been for two, rather than one, set of attacking patterns?


I don't think they will have fallen for it. Gatland thought he was being clever just like when he attempts to stir it up but any eejit can see through it. I also hope that the defensive drills don't rely on the opposition attacking in a certain patterns.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 3, 2012)

Hmmm. If that was the case then it would be utterly pointless pretending a player's injury is worse than it is, no? The fact that every side in the world, including Ireland, indulges in the same tactics would indicate otherwise.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 3, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Hmmm. If that was the case then it would be utterly pointless pretending a player's injury is worse than it is, no? The fact that every side in the world, including Ireland, indulges in the same tactics would indicate otherwise.


Not really, he's trying to mess with our heads by pretending a star player is out or a bit injured.


----------



## starfish (Feb 3, 2012)

As per usual im very pessimistic about Scotlands chances but i hope to be pleasantly surprised. I think this is as good a time as any to play England. New caps, new team, new coach & at Murrayfield. Scotland have a fairly settled squad, our forwards look a decent pack just hope the backs can create some chances with the ball they get.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 3, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Hmmm. If that was the case then it would be utterly pointless pretending a player's injury is worse than it is, no? The fact that every side in the world, including Ireland, indulges in the same tactics would indicate otherwise.


I also can't think of any side which indulges in "mind-games" the same as Gatland.


----------



## gabi (Feb 3, 2012)

Graham Henry did it all the time too, with Wales, and NZ. Not sure it worked, in general. I mean, these guys aren't exactly Kasparov or Fischer...

Fergie at United is genuinely good at fucking with his lineups, and with that, the opposing manager.. look at the state of my fantasy side for evidence of that, but that's another less general sport etc


----------



## bendeus (Feb 4, 2012)

starfish said:


> As per usual im very pessimistic about Scotlands chances but i hope to be pleasantly surprised. I think this is as good a time as any to play England. New caps, new team, new coach & at Murrayfield. Scotland have a fairly settled squad, our forwards look a decent pack *just hope the backs can create some chances with the ball they get.*


 
That's where it goes awry.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 4, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I also can't think of any side which indulges in "mind-games" the same as Gatland.


 
Then you clearly don't follow HEC or regional grade rugby.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 4, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I also can't think of any side which indulges in "mind-games" the same as Gatland.


 
What we're talking about here is keeping injuries, or non-injuries, a secret.

Priestland offers a threat off first phase with ball in hand, plays his centres flat on the gainline and has an impressive tactical kicking game.

Do you think that they'd line up in defence the same as they would against, say, Wellies, who offers no running threat and has little to offer in terms of finding touch with the boot?

Course you don't. You would consider different ways of containing both players, because they present different types of threat.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 4, 2012)

gabi said:


> Graham Henry did it all the time too, with Wales, and NZ. Not sure it worked, in general. I mean, these guys aren't exactly Kasparov or Fischer...
> 
> Fergie at United is genuinely good at fucking with his lineups, and with that, the opposing manager.. look at the state of my fantasy side for evidence of that, but that's another less general sport etc


 
Fergie? FFS.


----------



## gabi (Feb 4, 2012)

Yes. Fergie. Pretty decent manager. Has been known to change even his star players at the very last minute, purely to fuck with the head of Arsene Wenger or Villas-Boas. And then win.

Gatland's a fucking amateur in comparison. Who didnt see this one coming.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 4, 2012)

gabi said:


> Yes. Fergie. Pretty decent football manager. Has been known to change even his star football players at the very last minute, purely to fuck with the head of football manager, Arsene Wenger or football manager, Villas-Boas. And then win.
> 
> Gatland's a fucking amateur, who manages a rugby team, in comparison. Who didnt see this one coming.


 
What one coming?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 4, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> In part I'm looking forward to this but I also know its going to be a tough tournement for England. I think the Indy had it about right when it predicted:
> France
> Ireland
> Wales
> ...


 
Thank god for the Indy's eternally fantastic rugby coverage


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 4, 2012)

Anyway, what about England with no pressure on them, or France with a sane coach?


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 4, 2012)

If (and its a big if)  wales beat Ireland its game on.  Theyve got Scotland and Italy at home then england at twickers. Wins against Scotland and Italy puts them two games within the slam.  Possible grandslam showdown against France?  I just can't see past Ireland at the moment. I think Sundays game is gonna be a great game.  I predict a close game too with a narrow points margin for whoever wins.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 4, 2012)

bendeus said:


> What we're talking about here is keeping injuries, or non-injuries, a secret.
> 
> Priestland offers a threat off first phase with ball in hand, plays his centres flat on the gainline and has an impressive tactical kicking game.
> 
> ...


Why can't you get your head around the idea that if I could smell it a mile off an international coaching unit certainly could?


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Feb 4, 2012)

I am finding the pigeons most distracting.


----------



## gosub (Feb 4, 2012)

Why is RBS still sponsering this?
Speaking as life long rugby fan but also a tax payer


----------



## Espresso (Feb 4, 2012)

Richie Gray is six foot ten and wieghs 20 stone 5 pounds, it just said on my telly
Blimey. I'm glad I'm not feeding him.

Looking forward to this.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 4, 2012)

come on Scotland!


----------



## The Octagon (Feb 4, 2012)

Shite rugby but a tense game so far. 

That Denton is a beast.


----------



## Espresso (Feb 4, 2012)

The best thing you can say about that is that both teams' performances will have cheered up the Italians.


----------



## stavros (Feb 4, 2012)

Espresso said:


> Richie Gray is six foot ten and wieghs 20 stone 5 pounds, it just said on my telly
> Blimey. I'm glad I'm not feeding him.


 
One of the little (in height) fellas in the Scottish pack looked more expensive, with his gut hanging out at one ruck/maul (I honestly don't know the difference, apologies).

Agree about the RBS thing. Anyone know if either Goodwin or Hester are rugger fans?


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 4, 2012)

Well after today's matches I'm fancying a battle for the spoon between england and Scotland.  Scotland were diabolical I thought.  England showed no flair with some guts.


----------



## starfish (Feb 4, 2012)

bendeus said:


> That's where it goes awry.


 
Isnt it just. Had the chances, backs & forwards. Really disappointed with today.


----------



## Ponyutd (Feb 5, 2012)

Come on England!


----------



## Clair De Lune (Feb 5, 2012)

what time is it on today? I may aswel watch seen as I am stranded in the country


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> what time is it on today? I may aswel watch seen as I am stranded in the country


Three o'clock


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 5, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> what time is it on today? I may aswel watch seen as I am stranded in the country


 
you mean the england game? it was yesterday. wales-ireland today.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

settles down


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> you mean the england game?


 
as _if_


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 5, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> settles down


 
i've got my green jersey on, missus has gone for the day, lads are on the way over, and i've a big bag of weed. 

i'm ready.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

plenty of booze for post-match sorrows drowning?


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 5, 2012)

down with the taffys


----------



## ddraig (Feb 5, 2012)

Come on Cymru!


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

_must_ be......


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

aw come oooooon


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

booo


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## Ax^ (Feb 5, 2012)

dang


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

fucking iplayer on the blink


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

i reallllly hope this doesn't go down to that first non-try


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> i reallllly hope this doesn't go down to that first non-try


 
or two missed kicks!


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

saaaaam 

tbf i'm really enjoying this - partly cos kid2s been up watching with me. we've been talking about the spider made of boys that lays an egg and arguing over whether the numbers on their backs are how old they are. adam jones has the most impressive beard of any 3 year old i've ever seen


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

1927 said:


> or two missed kicks!


 
yeah but that would be our fuckup, yunno?


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 5, 2012)

still the welsh game to win


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

rhys


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## Ax^ (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

awesome


----------



## ddraig (Feb 5, 2012)

woooohooo COME ON!


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

did he get sent off????? fucking inlayer again


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

Get In!!!


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 5, 2012)

should of been a red card ..

and


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> should of been a red card ..
> 
> and


 

Should *have* been!


----------



## ddraig (Feb 5, 2012)

shit defending, great try Ireland


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 5, 2012)

1927 said:


> Should *have* been!


 
*give's you a gold star*


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## ddraig (Feb 5, 2012)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
can't watch


----------



## Espresso (Feb 5, 2012)

This is a hell of a match.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

come on leigh


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

fucking YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


----------



## ddraig (Feb 5, 2012)

well e well! bloody hell! phew


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

That's complete bollocks - they should have had a red and that was never a yellow. Robbed by shit officials again.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

well done boys!


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

we deserved it i reckon


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> That's complete bollocks - they should have had a red and that was never a yellow. Robbed by shit officials again.


 
Well we were denied 7points by them so tough shit!


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Feb 5, 2012)

We was robbed!


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 5, 2012)

fuck

what was that?! pack of spanners.


----------



## gosub (Feb 5, 2012)

fantastic game, shame my Irish wife isn't talking to me


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> We was robbed!


 
No you werent.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> we deserved it i reckon


 
absolutely


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

great match. though i did miss the "red that wasn't" so i dunno the ins and outs of that.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2012)

Fucking roller coaster ride or what 

my money is safe for another week


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 5, 2012)

"hollow" georgie says! and he's right.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Fucking roller coaster ride or what


 
too right


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 5, 2012)

Brilliant game. Great standard from both teams.

Hard to see how that wasn't a red card, though, tbh. And I say that as a welshman.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Hard to see how that wasn't a red card, though, tbh. And I say that as a welshman.


 
having now seen it i have to agree (except for the welshman bit)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 5, 2012)

Wales got away with one there, I think. I thought Wales were definitely the better team, but they very nearly conspired to throw it away. Ireland would have won if that had been a red.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 5, 2012)

fair summing up but still glad we won


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 5, 2012)

Yep, me too.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

1927 said:


> Well we were denied 7points by them so tough shit!


No way was if a foul and he should never have been on the pitch.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> No way was if a foul and he should never have been on the pitch.


 
Why shouldnt Ryan Jones have been on the pitch?


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 5, 2012)

No way was that last penalty a penalty.  Fuck it.  Every single team has lost games to bad reffing.  Nevertheless wales were the better team.  They showed great spirit even at a man down. George North is a fucking legend and I want his babies.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 5, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> That's complete bollocks - they should have had a red and that was never a yellow. Robbed by shit officials again.



It's happened to every team.  Move on and deal with it... And recognise wales showed greater flair and guts and deserved the win.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

1927 said:


> Why shouldnt Ryan Jones have been on the pitch?


I thought it was for the lock that should have been sent off?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> It's happened to every team. Move on and deal with it... And recognise wales showed greater flair and guts and deserved the win.


This isn't football ffs, it was bad refereeing decisions and it's cost us the game for the second year in the row.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I thought it was for the lock that should have been sent off?


 
even if it was, it was in the first half ya muppet!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

1927 said:


> even if it was, it was in the first half ya muppet!


What? The red card was for the tip tackle late in the second. Did I miss another red for wales?


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 5, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> This isn't football ffs, it was bad refereeing decisions and it's cost us the game for the second year in the row.


 
You see that's just an excuse.  You're concentrating on one bad decision then making a hypothetical assumption Ireland would've won.  Granted it was a last minute bad call but all the pressure was on Ireland and who's to say wales wouldn't have won.  Anyway.. You can't deny wales were the better team.  Ireland lost in their own backyard.  All the pundits thought Ireland would win.  Even if thought they would too.  Wales showed immense spirit.  When we lost a man and our captain we still piled on the pressure.  Ireland lost.  On paper they should've won... They didn't.  Time to move on.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> You see that's just an excuse. You're concentrating on one bad decision then making a hypothetical assumption Ireland would've won. Granted it was a last minute bad call but all the pressure was on Ireland and who's to say wales wouldn't have won. Anyway.. You can't deny wales were the better team. Ireland lost in their own backyard. All the pundits thought Ireland would win. Even if thought they would too. Wales showed immense spirit. When we lost a man and our captain we still piled on the pressure. Ireland lost. On paper they should've won... They didn't. Time to move on.


With all due respect I'm not concentrating on that one bad decision, when you went down to 14 men you were clearly the worse side and shipped tries and points, the officials bottling the red card did have a clear effect on the result.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 5, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> With all due respect I'm not concentrating on that one bad decision, when you went down to 14 men you were clearly the worse side and shipped tries and points, the officials bottling the red card did have a clear effect on the result.




Well you're concentrating on the Davies send off.  When he came back on which team were exerting all the pressure?  Yes that's right... Wales. Really... Taking the game as a whole.. Which team played the best game?  Ireland were electrifying when they wanted to... Especially especially tail end of second half.  But fact is as injury strewn as we were,  losing a player,  and a captain Ireland were simply humbled by Welsh grit.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2012)

What a great result for Wales. Well deserved too.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm sure, Sleater, that your one eye missed the fact that Ryan Jones' try was clearly a try, that there was a deliberate knock on by an Irish defender in or just outside the 22 a few minutes before Wales' first try, which should have seen yellow, and that infringement at the breakdown, particularly tacklers flopping on the wrong side and slowing down ball, was very Irish in both its wearisome consistency throughout the entire game and the fact that it appeared to be invisible to the match officials. 

Add to that 10 missed points from the boot and how you can even begin to believe that Ireland deserved that, or that you were in some way robbed is laughable.

Ireland played superbly, but they came up against a Wales side whose resilience, cool and power behind the scrum was very impressive, and most unWelsh.

The boys kept believing even when things were going wrong. They backed themselves throughout, and thoroughly earned a deserved victory.

George North was titanic, best game I've seen Jonathan Davies play in a Welsh shirt, Phillips was fantastic, and once again Ryan Jones demonstrated why he is still so highly regarded by people who know their rugby. Also very impressed with Tipuric when he came on - quality in depth at 7 has to be a good thing.

For Ireland I thought Kearney was superb, Bowe had a great game, and Heaslip was pretty prominent in the loose. POC, of course, was his usual self - a class player but a fucking mealy mouthed loser - in his post match interview he clearly didn't notice that there was another team on the pitch, as apparently Ireland lost because of their 'mistakes'.

Anyway, onwards ever onwards, but without Bradley, whose idiocy will quite rightly get him a lengthy ban.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Well you're concentrating on the Davies send off.


I'm concentrating on the send off, I'm concentrating on the dodgy penalty - make your mind up!. You can't simply brush aside a game changing decision like that.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I'm sure, Sleater, that your one eye missed the fact that Ryan Jones' try was clearly a try, that there was a deliberate knock on by an Irish defender in or just outside the 22 a few minutes before Wales' first try, which should have seen yellow, and that infringement at the breakdown, particularly tacklers flopping on the wrong side and slowing down ball, was very Irish in both its wearisome consistency throughout the entire game and the fact that it appeared to be invisible to the match officials.
> 
> Add to that 10 missed points from the boot and how you can even begin to believe that Ireland deserved that, or that you were in some way robbed is laughable.
> 
> ...


h

Excellent analysis.  Sleater sounds like SOME welsh fans after the rwc semis who blamed the Warburton red card and ignored the rest of the squandered welsh chances against a French team that hardly turned up.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 5, 2012)

I also forgot to say that today's game was a credit to the competition. Two fantastic sides in a scintillating game of rugby. One of the finest 6N games I have seen in a long time.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 5, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> h
> 
> Excellent analysis. Sleater sounds like SOME welsh fans after the rwc semis who blamed the Warburton red card and ignored the rest of the squandered welsh chances against a French team that hardly turned up.


 
Sleater dined on a vatful of sour grapes after the WC quarter final, IIRC


----------



## bendeus (Feb 5, 2012)

I've just looked at the Ferris tackle again on the BBC. Elbows up and driving an inverted player downwards onto upper body and head. Low end in terms of endangerment and intent, but nevertheless a tip tackle.

The yellow is disputable, the penalty is in no way so. We all know the laws regarding spears and, as has been laboured on these very boards, if you have your elbows up and you are driving the player down, you can only expect to get pinged at an absolute minimum.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Sleater sounds like SOME welsh fans


That's a low blow. 

Anyway we'll lose in Paris next week and that'll be it for another year.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 5, 2012)

Get the fuck in there Wales! Grand Slam amdani!


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I've just looked at the Ferris tackle again on the BBC. Elbows up and driving an inverted player downwards onto upper body and head. Low end in terms of endangerment and intent, but nevertheless a tip tackle.
> 
> The yellow is disputable, the penalty is in no way so. We all know the laws regarding spears and, as has been laboured on these very boards, if you have your elbows up and you are driving the player down, you can only expect to get pinged at an absolute minimum.



I've just seen it again funnily enough.  Sure he was lifted and his legs went up but he was brought down safely... Is it still a penalty then?


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 5, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> That's a low blow.
> 
> Anyway we'll lose in Paris next week and that'll be it for another year.



It's not low.  You appear to be ignoring the context of the entire game and concentrating on the refereeing decisions in question.  That's not different to some of the Welsh fans who were up in arms about the Warburton red in the rwc semis.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 5, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I've just seen it again funnily enough.  Sure he was lifted and his legs went up but he was brought down safely... Is it still a penalty then?



I don't reckon he brought him down safely so much as he was able to break the fall with his hands.If he did bring him down safely then it shouldn't have been a penalty.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> What? The red card was for the tip tackle late in the second. Did I miss another red for wales?


 
How dull are you?. What arent you undertsanding here?

i claimed we had a try disallowed, you said he shouldnt have been on pitch, i asked why RJ shouldnt have been on pitch, you said you thought it was Bradley, i pointed out that the disallowed try was in first half well before the yellow card.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I'm sure, Sleater, that your one eye missed the fact that Ryan Jones' try was clearly a try, that there was a deliberate knock on by an Irish defender in or just outside the 22 a few minutes before Wales' first try, which should have seen yellow, and that infringement at the breakdown, particularly tacklers flopping on the wrong side and slowing down ball, was very Irish in both its wearisome consistency throughout the entire game and the fact that it appeared to be invisible to the match officials.
> 
> Add to that 10 missed points from the boot and how you can even begin to believe that Ireland deserved that, or that you were in some way robbed is laughable.
> 
> ...


 
I thought Bowe was very lucky not to see a card and could arguably have been a penalty try. I am pretty sure we had a 2 man overlap 22 metres out and Bowe was last defender, in football he would have been sent off for a professional foul.


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I also forgot to say that today's game was a credit to the competition. *Two fantastic sides in a scintillating game of rugby. One of the finest 6N games I have seen in a long time*.


 

I'm not really a rugby man but I agree with this 

I was convinced for a long time that Ireland would end up with the result, but Wales were just too persistant and determined (ie too good!) for Ireland in the end 

Will carry on watching (and supporting) Wales throughout the 6 nations after this! .... I was supporting Wales in the rugby even before I moved here** -- we had a great afternoon in the Wern Fawr (Ystalavera), cracking beer, cracking atmosphere, great game ... note priority order ... 

**(we'll leave out the football for now  )


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 5, 2012)

I have nothing to say about iffy (or not) decisions mind, because I *always* fond rugby rules a problem to understand 

Even the (pub based!  ) explanations I found confusing today


----------



## ddraig (Feb 5, 2012)

William
it is Ystalafera
there is no 'v' in the Cymraeg


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

1927 said:


> How dull are you?. What arent you undertsanding here?
> 
> i claimed we had a try disallowed, you said he shouldnt have been on pitch


It wasn't a response to your point about the disallowed try, I was talking about the last decision.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 5, 2012)

Match stats from ESPN here. They seem to indicate that Wales were the better side, too.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Ryan Jones demonstrated why he is still so highly regarded by people who know their rugby.


 
The thing about RJ is he can have a massive game, but unless you look for it you wont see it. He just gets on with his job quietly, i can hardly remember hearing his name mentioned today.

gatland has a few headaches befoe the next game. Does he go for the same again? Brad is likely to miss rest of 6 nations if he is cited, so do we move RJ up to 2nd row, Ian Gough or Lou Reed. Does Hooky start, can we drop Priestland, we have to take kicking off him tho.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 5, 2012)

RJ was immense today. I think he may have shaded MoM for me from amongst a pretty big list of contenders.

I'd move him to lock (BD is looking at 10-12 weeks, IMO) and bring Shingler in at six if Lydiate isn't fit. 

Why on earth would we want to drop The Priest? 1/2 p needs to take the kicks for sure, though.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Match stats from ESPN here. They seem to indicate that Wales were the better side, too.


I wonder why we kicked so much ball away and didn't go for lineouts given that we had the upper hand there.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 5, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I wonder why we kicked so much ball away and didn't go for lineouts given that we had the upper hand there.


 
Dunno. Would have been logical, though. We were 3 won, 3 lost at one point. Bennett picked up a bit but POC was putting our jumpers under all kinds of pressure.

Sexton's poor decision making or instructions from Kidney to keep the ball in play?


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 5, 2012)

Watching the last twenty mins of the match again. Bradley Davies is a tit fair play.  Got to give it to wales though they never gave up.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 5, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Watching the last twenty mins of the match again. Bradley Davies is a tit fair play. Got to give it to wales though they never gave up.


 
Looking at how the incident developed, Donnacha Ryan was also a tit, and on reflection, what he did should have seen yellow. It's precisely the kind of challenge that is designed to cause injury and nothing else, and is exactly how Bakkies Botha dislocated Adam's shoulder in the second Lions test. I'm wondering if that was a factor in what happened next.

Bradley is reacting to a piece of cynical foul play, but to deliberately pursue that player and equally deliberately spear them into the floor is fucking idiocy of the highest degree, and entirely deserving of the censure that will no doubt follow.

I was also less than impressed by Connor Murray's cute little drop of the knees into Jonathan Davies' leg when he'd scored one of his two tries. Proper cynical stuff.


----------



## LiamO (Feb 6, 2012)

Wales fully deserved their victory and Ireland did well to get away with a one-point loss when we could (and probably should) have been dead and buried by half-time.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 6, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I was also less than impressed by Connor Murray's cute little drop of the knees into Jonathan Davies' leg when he'd scored one of his two tries. Proper cynical stuff.


 
nah, wasn't cynical. he'd started going to ground already and it was too late for the brakes to do anything. is there honestly enough in his history to make you think he would?


----------



## elfman (Feb 6, 2012)

Haven't been able to watch any of the games, but hopefully I can find some torrents soon. England are still on for the grand slam though 

fantasy league standings after 1st week for anyone who's too lazy to look at them...
​1 Cleckheaton 53pts​2 all the good ones are tak 49pts​3 SteroidAbuse 40pts​4 Urban75 38pts​5 Read Fiction 34pts​6 Bendys Bois 0pts​​ 
am top of de leeeeg!


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)

i think im Urban75? i didnt know what i was doing?


----------



## flypanam (Feb 6, 2012)

Fuck what a game! On the Ferris tackle I don't think the Welsh guys feet left the ground. I think it's abit rich bendy for you to call POC 'mealy mouthed' not as if your players don't fucking winge. I know when I played and we lost I couldn't let it go sometimes, pretty sure your the same.

However:
The Welsh power was incredible and it has shown up that our insistence on D'arcy and McFadden/Earls midfield is a massive weak point for us.

Which brings us to our defensive strategy, we had one but do we have one now? when we won the GS we had really impressive shooters in the defensive line, attacking out to in. We failed to employ this at all on Sunday and sat back and waited for the Welsh to come at us. Does Les Kiss really believe we can soak up pressure? We can't and here is why of all the top 8 teams in rugby Ireland are the most likely to switch off, our levels of concentration are at times truly shocking. This has everything to do with the head coach and his team.

I was worried about this 6 nations. I actually think we'll be lucky to hit forth.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 6, 2012)

i'm gonna watch the full game again this evening. 

btw, if anyone uses torrents and wants to download full games i have a good website.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 6, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> i'm gonna watch the full game again this evening.
> 
> btw, if anyone uses torrents and wants to download full games i have a good website.



It's on I player.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 6, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> It's on I player.


 
fair enough. i prefer re-watching  in HD though.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)

Tivo


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 6, 2012)

whatever floats yer boat.


----------



## elfman (Feb 6, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> i'm gonna watch the full game again this evening.
> 
> btw, if anyone uses torrents and wants to download full games i have a good website.


My VPN is shit for UK stuff, so I wouldn't mind this...


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 6, 2012)

just had a look and registration is closed. sorry! 
it's acrossthetasman.com if you want to try at a later date.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 6, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Fuck what a game! On the Ferris tackle I don't think the Welsh guys feet left the ground.


 
I agree that the Ferris tackle was marginal. One of Evans' feet left the ground, the other would have but slipped loose from his grip. The problem was the intent was there, the body shape was there and the inversion was there. This is yet another clear bit of evidence of how the IRB needs to clarify the law, but if you are going to attempt a tackle like that in front of your own posts in the dying seconds of a high-octane match like that, particularly in the current 'zero tolerance' climate, then on your own head be it.



> I think it's abit rich bendy for you to call POC 'mealy mouthed' not as if your players don't fucking winge. I know when I played and we lost I couldn't let it go sometimes, pretty sure your the same.


 
Aaaah. Call me a bluff old traditionalist but I thought it was usually courteous to acknowledge that another team had been on the pitch battling it out in a match that will long live in memory. St Paul wasn't willing to extend that courtesy, so as a Taffy I say, 'fuck him', if you don't mind. 

Didn't think you guys booed either. Not just booing kicks, but booing tries, booing post match interviews, and booing the teams off the pitch. You'll be chucking beer bottles next 




> However:
> The Welsh power was incredible and it has shown up that our insistence on D'arcy and McFadden/Earls midfield is a massive weak point for us.


 
We knew this before the game. Our backline is the biggest it's ever been. Wales have unearthed some monsters who can actually play rugby. Pretty scary to think that Roberts was clearly carrying a knock and was functioning at about 60%, imo. If he had been firing it would have been worse for your boys. One area I was impressed with, however, was scrumtime. You're certainly not depowered there, and contained us more comfortably than at any point in the last few years.



> I was worried about this 6 nations. I actually think we'll be lucky to hit forth


 
You'll lose to France, IMO, but still have the beating of the others.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 6, 2012)

Cuthbert 6'6"  16st 5lbs,Davies 6'1" 16st 3lbs, Roberts 6'4" 17st 4lbs, Halfpenny 5'10" 13st 1lb, North 6'4" 16st 5lbs,Priestland 6'00" 13st 9lbs, Philips 6'3" 15st 10lbs.

Would be interesting to know how many backlines have ever been bigger. There have probably been smaller international packs.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 6, 2012)

I feel I have to share some George North stats.

1) The youngest Welsh player to score on his international debut.
2) The youngest player to score two international tries on his debut.
3) The youngest player to score two international tries, period.
4) The only player in history to score two debut tries against the Bokke.
5) The youngest player to rack up 10 career tries (Lomu was 20).
6) The youngest player to score in a world cup.

His current strike rate is 0.588 per match. Comparable with Underwood or Campo.

Now, I know Mattie doesn't frequent these boards anymore, but I know he didn't rate him that highly. North isn't 20 yet, and those stats are fucking scary. Out of interest, who would people have at 11 for the Lions at present? North or Ashton?


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 6, 2012)

North without doubt.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 6, 2012)

The more complete player, IMO.


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 6, 2012)

1927 said:
			
		

> I thought Bowe was very lucky not to see a card and could arguably have been a penalty try.


Not on this planet 



bendeus said:


> Out of interest, who would people have at 11 for the Lions at present? North or Ashton?


 
Went to the Scarlets v Munster match this season- invited to stay by a friend "Come and see our new George North"
Singing his praises all season- naturally we won of course, but he truly is fantastic.

For the lions, I would pick North on the left wing, Ashton on the bench, and Simon Zebo on the right.  Or perhaps that Bowe chap.

Overall:

Italy must be relishing the prospect of playing England and Scotland.
Wales for the slam
France to beat Ireland.

What a fantastic, gruelling, brutal match that was at Lansdowne.
Sour taste afterwards, to lose in that manner.  
We should have been able to close that out after 70 minutes.

However- realistically, had Wales kicked their penalties and been awarded their try, the discussions wouldn't have focussed so much on what colour cards should have been brandished.

I said beforehand I thought Wales would win, but choking at the death like that really hurts.
Couldnt name an individual MOTM, wales were class throughout.

Trimble went missing for chunks of the match.
Think we will be more cutting with Earls and Zebo in the side.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Not on this planet


 
A deliberate knock on in the red zone when the attacking side have an overlap? Could well have seen yellow and probably should, but not a penalty try. Still sufficient doubt about the try being scored.




> For the lions, I would pick North on the left wing, Ashton on the bench, and Simon Zebo on the right. Or perhaps that Bowe chap.


 
I still luvs Tommy. Still not hitting the heights of two seasons ago but he scored one and made one yesterday, and that's all you'd ask from a winger (got stuffed for North's try, though). Really haven't seen much of Zebo - what kind of player is he in the sense of who would you most closely compare him to?




> What a fantastic, gruelling, brutal match that was at Lansdowne.
> Sour taste afterwards, to lose in that manner.
> We should have been able to close that out after 70 minutes.


 
D'you think POC fucked up by getting Sexton to try that speculative punt from beyond halfway, thus handing the ball back to us? He's not got that range normally, right? Wales showed incredible composure and retention to work their way back to your 22.




> However- realistically, had Wales kicked their penalties and been awarded their try, the discussions wouldn't have focussed so much on what colour cards should have been brandished.


 
Word




> I said beforehand I thought Wales would win, but choking at the death like that really hurts.
> Couldnt name an individual MOTM, wales were class throughout.


 
There were a lot of classy performances on the pitch yesterday from men in green and red shirts. Someone (Guscott?) said that 80-90% of the 2013 Lions test team were on the pitch, and they're probably right.




> Trimble went missing for chunks of the match.


 
Still don't rate him at the top level, I'm afraid. Nor am I in any way convinced by Sexton, who still looks like a decent HEC 10 rather than an international. Liked the look of Murray, though. Showed some excellent glimpses.



> Think we will be more cutting with Earls and Zebo in the side.


 
But Earls will weaken you in defence even more if you play him at 13, which I assume you will. The French centres will cause you similar terrors, I'd have thought.

E2A is an Trimble, Kearney, Bowe, Sexton, Onan, Murray, Earls backline completely insane? I reckon Tommy would do a very good job for you at 13 both in attack and defence, Sexton would benefit from having some of the decision making taking off him, and Earls' decent strike rate would be maximised while having his poor defence minimised.


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I still luvs Tommy. Still not hitting the heights of two seasons ago but he scored one and made one yesterday, and that's all you'd ask from a winger (got stuffed for North's try, though). Really haven't seen much of Zebo - what kind of player is he in the sense of who would you most closely compare him to?


 
A gangly speedster.  Solid in defence at HEC level.  Capable of scoring tries- as he showed for the Wolfhounds in their loss to the Saxons.



bendeus said:


> D'you think POC fucked up by getting Sexton to try that speculative punt from beyond halfway, thus handing the ball back to us? He's not got that range normally, right? Wales showed incredible composure and retention to work their way back to your 22.


 
I suppose playing alongside ROG week in, week out, there are certain expectations you have of a fly half that you take for granted.  If Sexton is being given the nod, you expect him to perform to a similar standard.



bendeus said:


> There were a lot of classy performances on the pitch yesterday from men in green and red shirts. Someone (Guscott?) said that 80-90% of the 2013 Lions test team were on the pitch, and they're probably right.


 
Easy.
Ansbro for Scotland- how on earth wasn't he picked against England??
A few dirttrackers from England.
The rest red/green.
Deffo. 



bendeus said:


> Still don't rate him at the top level, I'm afraid. Nor am I in any way convinced by Sexton, who still looks like a decent HEC 10 rather than an international. Liked the look of Murray, though. Showed some excellent glimpses.


I rated him highly at Ulster for years.  Very similar to David Strettle. Was disappointed when Bowe left for the Ospreys, thought he might spearhead an Ulster revival.  More surprised that Trimble stayed, but fair play to him, has been turning out well in the HEC, most noticeable recently against the Tiggers and Clermont.
Having said that- he had his shot in the jersey and underperformed.   I would be surprised to see him to get the nod against France ahead of Kearney or Zebo. 



bendeus said:


> But Earls will weaken you in defence even more if you play him at 13, which I assume you will. The French centres will cause you similar terrors, I'd have thought.


Be fair to him- his shakiest performance was probably for the Lions.  He was very young, and very green.
Defence is something he has worked on.  He does a good job in Europe and the league.
Crucially- he scores tries.  Averaging not far off a try a game- hasn't got many caps, but scored in nearly every 6N match last year.



bendeus said:


> E2A is an Trimble, Kearney, Bowe, Sexton, Onan, Murray, Earls backline completely insane? I reckon Tommy would do a very good job for you at 13 both in attack and defence, Sexton would benefit from having some of the decision making taking off him, and Earls' decent strike rate would be maximised while having his poor defence minimised.



Interesting!!
Earls has been played all over the backline.
If you can't chose between stand offs, have a 2nd 5/8ths (is that right?)
It would at least guarantee a reliable kicker.  I think a Munster 9-10 would be preferable.
D'Arcy would be understandably upset by not getting a look in.
Trimble for either Zebo or Kearney2.
hmm


----------



## 1927 (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I feel I have to share some George North stats.
> 
> 1) The youngest Welsh player to score on his international debut.
> 2) The youngest player to score two international tries on his debut.
> ...


 
On Talkshite yesterday Paddy Power was discussing the match with Darren Gough and some other geezer. They reckoned it was plain unfair that he was allowed to play!lol


----------



## 1927 (Feb 7, 2012)

On subject of North, he has still played more games for Wales than the Scarlets (17 against 12) and scored twice as many points for Wales as he has for Scarlets.(50 to 25)


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 7, 2012)

Another George North stat...

He played in the same school rugby time as I did (albeit I played about 20 years earlier )


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Be fair to him- his shakiest performance was probably for the Lions. He was very young, and very green.
> Defence is something he has worked on. He does a good job in Europe and the league.
> Crucially- he scores tries. Averaging not far off a try a game- hasn't got many caps, but scored in nearly every 6N match last year.


 

What about his performances at FB for Ireland last year? Agreed about his strike rate, though. He certainly knows where the line is.




> Interesting!!
> Earls has been played all over the backline.
> If you can't chose between stand offs, have a 2nd 5/8ths (is that right?)
> It would at least guarantee a reliable kicker. I think a Munster 9-10 would be preferable.
> ...


 
Earls has played 11 for Ireland and the Lions. It's no big change for him. Bowe gives you the defence, pace on the inside shoulder and decent angles of running that you'd want from a 13 (he plays there for the Os a lot, and I reckon it's him who could be your long-term solution to BOD). I think Flypanam has discussed Sexton as a 2nd 5/8th - two kicking options in midfield, decent distribution and crucially, less pressure. All but the most one-eyed would suggest he has replicated his performances for his province in a green shirt. Sorry, yes, Zebo or Kearney instead of 'I was handed off by Shane Williams' Trimble.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

1927 said:


> On Talkshite yesterday Paddy Power was discussing the match with Darren Gough and some other geezer. They reckoned it was plain unfair that he was allowed to play!lol


 
Thing is, we're fucking Welsh. We're the little ones, right?

How the hell we ended up with a backline bigger than the Bokke or the Saes is bizarre. There must have been a secret breeding programme involving Jonah Lomu and a bunch of girls from Tonyrefail back in the '90s


----------



## elfman (Feb 7, 2012)

Finally got around to watching IvW match. Good game like. Even though a couple of dodgy decisions went against Ire, I thought Wales were the better team overall, just shit at kicking for goal.

North scares me. He's still not going to be fully 'developed' for a couple of years yet and he seems like he's got the skills and brain to go with the physicality too. He's going to be devastating by the time the next WC comes around.

Thinking about the Lions team. I'd say it's potentially the best team we could of had for a while if there aren't too many injuries and some of the younger players live up to their potential.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 7, 2012)

I see that both Davies and Ferris have been cited. Reali has taken his action under the International Rugby Board's Law 10.4 (j). It states: "Lifting a player from the ground, and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground, is dangerous play."
Losing Ferris will be a big blow, Kidney probably won't delve deeply into our back row reserves for that Paris trip. I'd love to see O'Mahony/Ruddock or if fit Dominic Ryan in at 7 and O'Brien reverting to six.

There is merit in the 1st and 2nd 5/8th experiment one which Kidney has allowed to happen in the past, I think it would help Sexton's game alot. I can't understand when Sexton's game revolves in standing pretty flat why Kidney and by extention Kiss demaded he stand so deep? At least with Rog beside him there is the possibilityof mixing up the first reciever. In defence though you would need on of the backrow to stand in that 10/12 channel. And have a 13 who is capable of covering his own position. Though I also believe that inside is possibly Fitz's best position he could give us an attcking threat.

Its all kinds of hokum at the moment until we get a viable player at 13. I've said it before but O'Malley is most like BO'D but needs to bulk up. However last year he was able to help contain the clermont backline, granted the HEC is a different beast from INT rugby as the Welsh boys keep showing us.

The IRFU decision to award Kidney a two year contract before the WC was laughable 4 years and is now too.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 7, 2012)

France Team v Ireland

Maxime Medard, Vincent Clerc, Aurelien Rougerie, Wesley Fofana, Julien Malzieu, Francois Trinh-Duc, Dimitri Yachvili; Jean-Baptiste Poux, Dimitri Szarzewski, Nicolas Mas, Pascal Pape, Yoann Maestri, Thierry Dusautoir, Imanol Harinordoquy, Louis Picamoles
Replacements: William Servat, Vincent Debaty, Lionel Nallet, Julien Bonnaire, Morgan Parra, Lionel Beauxis, Maxime Mermoz


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 7, 2012)

flypanam said:


> The IRFU decision to award Kidney a two year contract before the WC was laughable 4 years and is now too.


Because you don't rate him?  Or he should be given a 4 year contract if you're aiming for the next WC?

That French team will eat us.

I'm not sure I'm going to enjoy watching this match.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 7, 2012)

I rate Kidney, he's an excellent coach who has got results eveywhere he's been from Dolphin to Ireland. However I think it's time for a shake up, I'd like the the coaching ticket replaced. I'd like to see Schmidt or Cotter there, or if we can't get rid of Kidney I'd like to see Foley or Gibbs get a run at forwards and Schimdt at attack. With McQuilken in defense. I'd like to see a coaching ticket take more risks with selection but also be a little ruthless at saying sorry but your past it or not good enough.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 7, 2012)

elfman said:


> Thinking about the Lions team. I'd say it's potentially the best team we could of had for a while if there aren't too many injuries and some of the younger players live up to their potential.


 
The Lions arent going to tour next time, they are just sending Gatland and the boys!lol


----------



## 1927 (Feb 7, 2012)

Frank Bunce is talking North up saying he is better than Lomu!!!


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 7, 2012)

1927 said:


> Frank Bunce is talking North up saying he is better than Lomu!!!



I think that's a certainty when north has matured more.  Not at the moment tho.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 7, 2012)

Just got fully comp day out for Sunday, 3 course meal, tickets and free bar 

Get The Fuck In


----------



## flypanam (Feb 7, 2012)

1927 said:


> The Lions arent going to tour next time, they are just sending Gatland and the boys!lol


 
Not if you don't win on this summers three test tour. Still great chance to win since what is it, 1969?

Actually we should swap. You take the Kiwi's and we'll take the ockers.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Not if you don't win on this summers three test tour. Still great chance to win since what is it, 1969?
> 
> Actually we should swap. You take the Kiwi's and we'll take the ockers.


 
Is this WRT Gatland or the Welsh squad? Surely you're not saying we have to win a test series in Oz in order to get representation on the Lions tour?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

1927 said:


> Frank Bunce is talking North up saying he is better than Lomu!!!


 
And he'd be right when you consider where both players were at a comparable stage of development. 

Let's see how he goes over the next 16 years (that's how long he could be playing first class rugby for) before we start comparing the finished products though, eh


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 7, 2012)

Forgot to pop by recently.  Just thought I'd say Hi.  And point out that we won.  It' always nice to remind each other that Wales beat Ireland.  They're without doubt the yardstick for Wales, and to beat them away from home with a mini injury-crisis is pretty spiffy.  I'm a very happy camper.  3 tries without Ickle is some going.  Poor feller must be wondering if he was holding Wales back!

Hook is never going to start for Wales again unless there's an injury that allows him in.  A year ago, that thought would have killed me.  Now I'm pretty easy with the fact.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 7, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I think that's a certainty when north has matured more. Not at the moment tho.


 
the point he made was that Lomu was big and could run thru people, same as North, but George has a few more rugby skills too!


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 7, 2012)

Just been announced Dan Parks has retired from international rugby with immediate effect.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 7, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Forgot to pop by recently. Just thought I'd say Hi. And point out that we won. It' always nice to remind each other that Wales beat Ireland. They're without doubt the yardstick for Wales, and to beat them away from home with a mini injury-crisis is pretty spiffy. I'm a very happy camper. 3 tries without Ickle is some going. Poor feller must be wondering if he was holding Wales back!
> 
> Hook is never going to start for Wales again unless there's an injury that allows him in. A year ago, that thought would have killed me. Now I'm pretty easy with the fact.


 
Didnt think we would be able to look back at a game and even start to question that Ickle might actually have struggled to break into the team. I think it is incredibly mature of Ickle to have retired when he did, knowing, as he must have done what talents we had coming thru. He could easily have carried on, but I am so pleased we gave him such a good personal send off, almost certainly wouldnt be like that if he carried on til the French game! Has any player ever had such a send off?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

1927 said:


> Didnt think we would be able to look back at a game and even start to question that Ickle might actually have struggled to break into the team. I think it is incredibly mature of Ickle to have retired when he did, knowing, as he must have done what talents we had coming thru. He could easily have carried on, but I am so pleased we gave him such a good personal send off, almost certainly wouldnt be like that if he carried on til the French game! Has any player ever had such a send off?


 



			
				Grandma Death said:
			
		

> Just been announced Dan Parks has retired from international rugby with immediate effect.


 
Dunno, but I reckon that in Scotland this ^^^ will probably be greeted with the same levels of rapturous applause and cheering as Shane received on his swansong 

I hate to say this, but Ickle is really, really showing his age this season. You're bang on about him timing it right. Just like another Welshman, Calzaghe, he retires peerless as a sportsman of his generation, and as one of the greatest in his position of all time. Another half season with Wales and the cracks would have started to show, just like they are for the Os now. His acceleration is diminished, and his agility starting to go. As it is, all we'll remember are the memories of being around to see one of the greats rather than someone like Cullen; a busted flush trying to eke one more season out of the game with gammy knees and no more pace.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

flypanam said:


> I see that both Davies and Ferris have been cited. Reali has taken his action under the International Rugby Board's Law 10.4 (j). It states: "Lifting a player from the ground, and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground, is dangerous play."
> Losing Ferris will be a big blow, Kidney probably won't delve deeply into our back row reserves for that Paris trip. I'd love to see O'Mahony/Ruddock or if fit Dominic Ryan in at 7 and O'Brien reverting to six.
> 
> There is merit in the 1st and 2nd 5/8th experiment one which Kidney has allowed to happen in the past, I think it would help Sexton's game alot. I can't understand when Sexton's game revolves in standing pretty flat why Kidney and by extention Kiss demaded he stand so deep? At least with Rog beside him there is the possibilityof mixing up the first reciever. In defence though you would need on of the backrow to stand in that 10/12 channel. And have a 13 who is capable of covering his own position. Though I also believe that inside is possibly Fitz's best position he could give us an attcking threat.
> ...


Sexton said in an interview that he isn't allowed to run as much with Ireland, which is a joke. Kidney is tactically naive.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Sexton said in an interview that he isn't allowed to run as much with Ireland, which is a joke. Kidney is tactically naive.


 
Good to see you back, Sleater. Are you Gordon D'Arcy by any chance? 




			
				Bloke in Denial said:
			
		

> Speaking to Newstalk's 'Off The Ball' last night, Gordon D'Arcy refuted the claims of many witnesses that all is not well with this Ireland team.
> "I don't think the better team won," he stated. "We showed what we are about as an attacking team for 90pc of that game, maybe we were a bit inaccurate at the breakdown. We left two or three tries out there. We're talking about 3pc or 4pc at the ruck.
> "I think we deserved the win. We played a lot of rugby. We defended very well. Wales played that wide game and we shut them down for large parts of the game.
> "We showed great maturity until 78 minutes. We kicked right, chased well, played tactically well, attacked well and from depth. We did all the things we wanted to do well."


 
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...ysis/david-kelly-wheres-the-plan-3011407.html


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Good to see you back, Sleater. Are you Gordon D'Arcy by any chance?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...ysis/david-kelly-wheres-the-plan-3011407.html


 
I forget his name now (that English player who tweeted that he thought that England were the better team against france in the RWC quarter finals) .I'd say that Darcy's comments are on the same level of delusion as that player.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 7, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I forget his name now (that English player who tweeted that he thought that England were the better team against france in the RWC quarter finals) .I'd say that Darcy's comments are on the same level of delusion as that player.


 
Absolutely. For fans to be deluded is one thing, for the players themselves to believe they actually deserved to win shows there is a massive obstacle for Ireland to overcome.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I forget his name now (that English player who tweeted that he thought that England were the better team against france in the RWC quarter finals) .I'd say that Darcy's comments are on the same level of delusion as that player.





1927 said:


> Absolutely. For fans to be deluded is one thing, for the players themselves to believe they actually deserved to win shows there is a massive obstacle for Ireland to overcome.


You just won by a dodgy free kick in the last minute ffs. Even Gatland admits you got out of jail - but he isn't a one-eyed taff.


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## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I forget his name now (that English player who tweeted that he thought that England were the better team against france in the RWC quarter finals) .I'd say that Darcy's comments are on the same level of delusion as that player.



It was Foden.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)




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## starfish (Feb 7, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Just been announced Dan Parks has retired from international rugby with immediate effect.





bendeus said:


> Dunno, but I reckon that in Scotland this ^^^ will probably be greeted with the same levels of rapturous applause and cheering as Shane received on his swansong


 
He had his moments. good & bad. Saturdays was one of the bad. He served us fairly well though. Was great in Argentina a couple of years ago. He is a solid performer but not the most skillful. We desperately need a new Gregor Townsend.


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## Grandma Death (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> You just won by a dodgy free kick in the last minute ffs. Even Gatland admits you got out of jail - but he isn't a one-eyed taff.


 

Jesus. We were working through the phases and all over Ireland like a rash in the last ten minutes. Ive watched the last twenty minutes of that match 4 times now. All the pressure in the last 10 mins was from Wales and I'd put my house on us scoring in the dying minutes. Stop being so bitter. Get over it. You were outplayed in your own backyard. Sorry but you DO sound like those welsh fans venting their fury at Rolland after the Warbie red card whilst sticking their ears in their fingers over the rest of the wales performance. You are so fucking deluded that you claimed this:



sleaterkinney said:


> With all due respect I'm not concentrating on that one bad decision, when you went down to 14 men you were clearly the worse side and shipped tries and points, the officials bottling the red card did have a clear effect on the result.


 
We shipped *A* try not tries. And we also scored a try when Davies was off. In fact it was Ireland that shipped as many points as wales when we were down to 14 men.

Seriously what game were you watching??


----------



## 1927 (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> You just won by a dodgy free kick in the last minute ffs. Even Gatland admits you got out of jail - but he isn't a one-eyed taff.


 
No. We won by a well converted penalty after one of your guys offended. We may have got out of jail, but if you truly believe that you deserved to win carry on living in your dream world. What colour is the sky on your planet by the way?


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## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

1927 said:


> No. We won by a well converted penalty after one of your guys offended. We may have got out of jail, but if you truly believe that you deserved to win carry on living in your dream world. What colour is the sky on your planet by the way?


You cannot be much the better team and only win after a dodgy penalty in the last minute. That's living in a dream world right there.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

starfish said:


> He had his moments. good & bad. Saturdays was one of the bad. He served us fairly well though. *Was great in Argentina a couple of years ago*. He is a solid performer but not the most skillful. We desperately need a new Gregor Townsend.


 
And in the 2010 6N. He was something of a revelation that season.


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## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> You just won by a dodgy free kick in the last minute ffs. Even Gatland admits you got out of jail - but he isn't a one-eyed taff.


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## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Sorry but you DO sound like those welsh fans venting their fury at Rolland after the Warbie red card whilst sticking their ears in their fingers over the rest of the wales performance.


 
He actually sounds worse. Most Welsh fans on these boards took it on the chin. What else was there to do? Mind, sleater also contrived to feel robbed after the QF as well. I'm not sure whether it's just that he hates losing generally, or that he hates losing to the Welsh specifically. I suspect the latter (and sympathise to a degree)



> Seriously what game were you watching??


 
The same one that D'Arcy and POC were playing in, clearly


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

1927 said:


> No. We won by a well converted penalty after one of your guys offended. We may have got out of jail, but if you truly believe that you deserved to win carry on living in your dream world. What colour is the sky on your planet by the way?


 
A penalty for which Ferris was cited and will receive a (short) ban.


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## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> He actually sounds worse. Most Welsh fans on these boards took it on the chin. What else was there to do? Mind, sleater also contrived to feel robbed after the QF as well. I'm not sure whether it's just that he hates losing generally, or that he hates losing to the Welsh specifically. I suspect the latter (and sympathise to a degree)


A  bit of both tbh, but to loose to a country we are miles ahead of at club level and up until recently at international level is galling.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> A penalty for which Ferris was cited and will receive a (short) ban.


If he get's banned for that there's something wrong.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> You cannot be much the better team and only win after a dodgy penalty in the last minute. That's living in a dream world right there.


 
17 points spunked by poor TMO decisions and erratic spot kicking.............

Our pack finished with one first choice player. It started with 3.

Our 12 was clearly carrying an injury throughout the match.

Ferris' infringement has been correctly cited by the letter of the law. This means that the independent commissioner believes that the sanction for the offence should have been red according to the guidelines laid down by the IRB.

Persistent infringing was ignored throughout the game. Go on, look at the breakdown in the last 20 minutes, I dare you. You'll see an Irish player on the wrong side of EVERY SINGLE ruck.

We scored the same amount of points as you while Bradley was off the pitch

Donnacha Ryan should also have seen yellow for the infringement against Adam - this would have led both sides to be down to 14 men until 76 minutes

Bowe should have seen yellow in the first half for a deliberate knock-on.

We stuffed you for territory and possession

We completed more passes, kicked less ball away and made more line breaks. We also tackled less and had a greater tackle completion rate than you.

Our ball retention rate was 95%

And you, sleater, are talking shite.


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## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> If he get's banned for that there's something wrong.


 
He will get a short ban. There is something wrong, but Ferris is a professional - he should know that you can't (ican'tbebotheredtogothroughitagain) in front of the posts.

Elbows up > player inverted = downward pressure = tip tackle.


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## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

Suggest you read this:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0205/1224311312735.html

...for a fair and unbiased perspective from your own countrymen.

Failing that, have a listen to a very measured and gracious Bernard Jackman on Scrum V - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01c07tf/Scrum_V_2011_2012_05_02_2012/

(He who gave away the 'dodgy' penalty that sent us clear in Dublin in '08 by, erm, smashing recklessly into a ruck without binding on his oppo, just like Ryan did.)

Funny that


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## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> 17 points spunked by poor TMO decisions and erratic spot kicking.............


It's not our fault Priestland can't kick over from straight in front of the goal, Sexton also missed. 



bendeus said:


> Ferris' infringement has been correctly cited by the letter of the law. This means that the independent commissioner believes that the sanction for the offence should have been red according to the guidelines laid down by the IRB.


It's just the IRB trying to cover it's ass


bendeus said:


> Persistent infringing was ignored throughout the game. Go on, look at the breakdown in the last 20 minutes, I dare you. You'll see an Irish player on the wrong side of EVERY SINGLE ruck.


And you'll see welsh players coming in from off side ans sealing off the ball.



bendeus said:


> We scored the same amount of points as you while Bradley was off the pitch
> 
> Donnacha Ryan should also have seen yellow for the infringement against Adam - this would have led both sides to be down to 14 men until 76 minutes


He should never have been let back on


bendeus said:


> Bowe should have seen yellow in the first half for a deliberate knock-on.


Didn't Hook do the same?



bendeus said:


> We stuffed you for territory and possession
> 
> We completed more passes, kicked less ball away and made more line breaks. We also tackled less and had a greater tackle completion rate than you.
> 
> ...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you scored that last minute penalty - that was the first time you were ahead since the 37th minute, wasn't it?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> A bit of both tbh, but to loose to a country we are miles ahead of at club level and up until recently at international level is galling.


 
Bloody hell!

Sport is cyclical, right? You're a fucking Liverpool fan so go figure. They were good once, weren't they? Glorious past, one of the most successful sides in history, right? Couple of successful blips (2006) and the treble in between then and now.

Doubtless, though, you will ferociously defend the integrity of your football team against those, say Man City fans for the sake of argument, who suggest that just because of recent performances they are 'miles ahead' of you.

For Liverpool, think Wales, but this time imagine that Liverpool's time may actually have come again rather than having a sack of shite like Andy Carroll to pin your folorn hopes on.

Then have a ponder on how fucking arrogant that statement makes you sound. Go on, I bet you'd think it if I was saying the same and I was Chelski.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> You cannot be much the better team and only win after a dodgy penalty in the last minute. That's living in a dream world right there.


 

You're living in a world where you think wales shipped tries (plural) during the sin bin and wales were the worse team in that 10 minutes (despite scoring the same number of points as Ireland during the sin bin)...thats a dream world right there.


----------



## starfish (Feb 7, 2012)

There was a similar tackle to Ferris's on Cusiter in saturdays game & no penalty was given. My first reaction was a spear tackle & it should have been a penalty but wasnt so sure after the replays (Cant find a clip of it though)


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## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Bloody hell!
> 
> Sport is cyclical, right?


No, you can stop right there, It isn't. Where are Nottingham Forest now for example?.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> It's not our fault Priestland can't kick over from straight in front of the goal, Sexton also missed.


 
You're trying to make a case for the moral victory. 17 points squandered or missed by the adjudicators would say otherwise.



> It's just the IRB trying to cover it's ass


 
No, it's not. It's the IRB trying to get a handle on a law that's spiralling out of control. Wales have ended up on the wrong side of this recently, or did you stop watching the WC after you were 'unluckily' prison shamed in the QF?



> And you'll see welsh players coming in from off side ans sealing off the ball.


 
Every ruck? I'll have a look and report back.



> He should never have been let back on


 
What about Donnacha?



> Didn't Hook do the same?


 
Got a .gif?



> Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you scored that last minute penalty - that was the first time you were ahead since the 37th minute, wasn't it?


 
You're trying to make a case for the moral victory. 17 points squandered or missed by the adjudicators would say otherwise.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

starfish said:


> There was a similar tackle to Ferris's on Cusiter in saturdays game & no penalty was given. My first reaction was a spear tackle & it should have been a penalty but wasnt so sure after the replays (Cant find a clip of it though)


 
It ain't your reaction that counts. It's that of the ref (who was right there) and the citing commissioner (who has seen it and considered the offence to be worthy of greater sanction than the yellow and pen that was already awarded)


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> No, you can stop right there, It isn't. Where are Nottingham Forest now for example?.


 
WTF?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> You're trying to make a case for the moral victory. 17 points squandered or missed by the adjudicators would say otherwise.


 
"missed by the adjudicators" - Get a grip.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> WTF?


That sport is cyclical - dewey eyed bollocks.


----------



## starfish (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> It ain't your reaction that counts. It's that of the ref (who was right there) and the citing commissioner (who has seen it and considered the offence to be worthy of greater sanction than the yellow and pen that was already awarded)


 
I get that, id just like to see both tackles again side by side as on memory there wasnt much difference. Ferris's could well have been worse though.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> "missed by the adjudicators" - Get a grip.


 
You're suggesting that if Barnes had asked 'is there any reason I cannot award the try?', which he should have, Ryan Jones' perfectly good try wouldn't have been awarded?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

starfish said:


> I get that, id just like to see both tackles again side by side as on memory there wasnt much difference. Ferris's could well have been worse though.


 
For the record, I'd like to say that I don't think Ferris' tackle should be illegal under IRB laws, just as I don't think that the egregious and unsportsmanlike holding up of players by their necks in order to win the put in at a scrum because the ball has not come out of a maul should be legal.

But them's the laws.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> You're suggesting that if Barnes had asked 'is there any reason I cannot award the try?', which he should have, Ryan Jones' perfectly good try wouldn't have been awarded?


If he didn't see the ball being grounded it was a legitimate question.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> That sport is cyclical - dewey eyed bollocks.


 
Funny that, because Ireland have been shit for years and years, but now appear to be quite good.

Wales were one of the best sides on the planet, became memorably shit, and now appear to be quite good again.

England were an incredible side in 2003 and now they're a bit shit.

How would *you* describe that process of moving from one state to another?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> If he didn't see the ball being grounded it was a legitimate question.


 
Do you think it was a try?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Funny that, because Ireland have been shit for years and years, but now appear to be quite good.
> 
> Wales were one of the best sides on the planet, became memorably shit, and now appear to be quite good again.
> 
> ...


Just because a side were good in the past, there is no reason why they must automatically be good again and as a Liverpool fan I *know* this.

I also think that lauding wales as quite good is a bit premature.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Do you think it was a try?


It could have been held up. We don't know.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 7, 2012)

Anyway, off to bed


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Just because a side were good in the past, there is no reason why they must automatically be good again and as a Liverpool fan I *know* this.
> 
> I also think that lauding wales as quite good is a bit premature.


 
Riiiggght. So you'll meekly succumb to upstarts like Citeh telling you that Liverpool are shit, then?

Course you won't, because you see your club as an amalgam of it's history rather than an abbreviated story containing only the last few years.

Ah, and we're not allowed to call ourselves 'quite good' now, are we? I'd say that performances over the last few months would allow us to sneak that adjective in from time to time, yes. Not great, of course. No, no. That would only apply to the Irish GS side of '09.

Fucking hell, you really need to add some sugar.

Anyway, this is diversionary in the extreme. I don't think you've covered yourself in glory tonight, sleater.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> It could have been held up. We don't know.


 
Except for the fact that it obviously wasn't, it could, yes.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 8, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I also think that lauding wales as quite good is a bit premature.


 
Wales havent been that consistent in the last seven years-but consistency is only *one* of the measures that makes a team 'quite good'...other things like Grand Slams, RWC Semi Finals is another-you'd agree no?

You really are quite bitter aren't you? You seem to struggle with Wales beating Ireland to the extent you dont want to recognise Wales for anything else (let alone scoring the same amount of points as Ireland when Davies was sin binned).

You know when I watched Wales denied the triple crown in the year Ireland won the slam I mustve shook the hands of dozens of Ireland fans down in cardiff wishing them the best and how it was a well deserved win etc.

Somehow I cant imagine you doing anything remotely like that.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 8, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Wales havent been that consistent in the last seven years-but consistency is only *one* of the measures that makes a team 'quite good'...other things like Grand Slams, RWC Semi Finals is another-you'd agree no?
> 
> You really are quite bitter aren't you? You seem to struggle with Wales beating Ireland to the extent you dont want to recognise Wales for anything else (let alone scoring the same amount of points as Ireland when Davies was sin binned).
> 
> ...


 
Deserved win?

Cheating bastards


----------



## bendeus (Feb 8, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Wales havent been that consistent in the last seven years-but consistency is only *one* of the measures that makes a team 'quite good'...other things like Grand Slams, RWC Semi Finals is another-you'd agree no?


 
I concur, and I would add to your list the number of Lions test starters from a country in a given period.

In the tours of South Africa and Australia Welsh representation, with the notable exception of a few exceptional individuals, was fairly low - reflective of how good we were. In the last tour of SA, our proportion of the team, and the number of test starters, was about equal to Ireland, which again is reflective of where we were at the time.

Barring the remarkable dip in form of a number of individuals we will have the highest representation of any nation in 2013. Go figure.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Deserved win?
> 
> Cheating bastards


 
Dont poke sleater anymore...he's clearly on the floor


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 8, 2012)

i've watched it again. plenty of injustices on both sides, but that's rugby and i'm not gonna whinge like some of you lot. 

first half was dismal from an irish point of view. do we honestly think our defense can just soak up the pressure and hope for the best? wales looked really confident with ball in hand for the first half hour. 
second half was so much more of a contest. infuriating but wonderful rugby. wrong decisions abounded but i still can't help feeling that the better team won. 

paris should now be a daunting task, but france aren't playing at the kind of tempo that brings out the pessimist in me.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 8, 2012)

Perroquet unlike you, my arse is supplying enough shite to build a new TD. I'm very worried, France traditionally struggle the first game. They only improve. There is something very wrong in the side, namely loss of bod and his organisation of the wide defence, he has been our shooter for years. We will continue to sit back and be passive in defence unless our centres wake up. The eviedence from D'arcy is that he won't and I hate to say it Earls while a fine player is naive without possesion. I'm pretty fearful of a rout. I think we will continue to kick possession away beacuse the game plan which sits in Kidney's mind is not the one players have bought into.

The most galling thing is as we fall down down the ratings our WC group become harder. I wonder if Kidney has some Italian nautical blood in him.


----------



## gabi (Feb 8, 2012)

Enjoyable rugby on the weekend but I reckon the Southern Hem coaches would have watched without much concern...


----------



## flypanam (Feb 8, 2012)

Actually we need a bit more of this in defence



The only player in Ireland I know who hits hard and hits hard for fun in Dominic Ryan. Is he injured?


----------



## flypanam (Feb 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> Enjoyable rugby on the weekend but I reckon the Southern Hem coaches would have watched without much concern...


 
Like fuck gabi.

Ian Foster's part of your set up. As a Chiefs fan for 8 years I can only HAHAHAHA!


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

I knew the Arriva Stadium reminded me of something, and I got it!


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

No wonder Ireland were piss poor and their fans so full of shit!


----------



## flypanam (Feb 8, 2012)

1927 said:


> No wonder Ireland were piss poor and their fans so full of shit!


 
Says the bloke named after a shite Australian band


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Says the bloke named after a shite Australian band


 
Same name, but not named after. There is a big difference!


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> Enjoyable rugby on the weekend but I reckon the Southern Hem coaches would have watched without much concern...


 
So Argentina would fancy playing Wales right now,or SA, Aus or AB for that matter?


----------



## gabi (Feb 8, 2012)

I meant the tri-nations, sorry.

And yeh - I'd back any of them to beat Wales tbh.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> I meant the tri-nations, sorry.
> 
> And yeh - I'd back any of them to beat Wales tbh.


 
Thats not what you said tho, you said that they would even be concerned!


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> I meant the tri-nations, sorry.
> 
> And yeh - I'd back any of them to beat Wales tbh.


 
Who cares?  We don't have to worry about that for another three and half years.  I'm just planning to enjoy the rugby for what it is and be thankful I don't have to sit through Scotland v England for another year.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 8, 2012)

Davies has had 7 week ban and will miss rest of the 6N


----------



## bendeus (Feb 8, 2012)

He was lucky in that case. Could have been a lot worse.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 8, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Who cares?  We don't have to worry about that for another three and half years.  I'm just planning to enjoy the rugby for what it is and be thankful I don't have to sit through Scotland v England for another year.



Gabi cares. He cares very much. In fact, it's the sole motivation behind his posts on this and rugby threads passim


----------



## flypanam (Feb 8, 2012)

Ferris cleared.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Ferris cleared.


 
Is that the sound of worms crawling out of a can I can hear?


----------



## flypanam (Feb 8, 2012)

1927 said:


> Is that the sound of worms crawling out of a can I can hear?


 
Mate, not from me. The ref made the decision and thats that. Nowt that I could/can do about it. You won and deserved to, now I just fill my pants about the thought of France.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 8, 2012)

I might not have to worry too much, Vinny Clerc is suggesting that due to the cold weather the game in Paris should be postponed. Apparently the SdF has no under soil heating.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

flypanam said:


> I might not have to worry too much, Vinny Clerc is suggesting that due to the cold weather the game in Paris should be postponed. Apparently the SdF has no under soil heating.


 
Like going to the dentist mate, better just get it over with quick as possible!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 8, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Ferris cleared.


Surprise surprise.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Surprise surprise.


 
Read it and weep!


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

I think I'd be hard pressed to take greater pleasure if we beat England considering the whinging of the Irish on this thread.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 8, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Ferris cleared.



Ref's original decision correct, then. Yellow and a pen the right call


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Ref's original decision correct, then. Yellow and a pen the right call


Oh, but it wasn't was it?. and the panel thought so too

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12506/7497147/Ferris-escapes-punishment

"We are delighted that Stephen has been totally exonerated of any wrongdoing by the disciplinary panel and that he is now available for selection against France," Kearney said.
"While we understand and fully support the stance to stamp out dangerous tackles in the game to make it safe at all levels,* the disciplinary panel itself felt that the decision to award a penalty was incorrect* and we also felt that it was a fair and legitimate tackle by Stephen.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Oh, but it wasn't was it?. and the panel thought so too
> 
> http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12506/7497147/Ferris-escapes-punishment
> 
> ...


 
WEll if they have said that they really have opened a can of worms, it was very clearly a spear tackle, or atleast that it was Ferris attempted. Just like every aspect of the Irish play he couldnt carry it off as well as the Welsh!


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 8, 2012)

Very dangerous inconsistency in interpretation of the laws of the game at the very highest level.

That is a concern


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Very dangerous inconsistency in interpretation of the laws of the game at the very highest level.
> 
> That is a concern


 
Openly criticising a ref for making a decision is hardly good either.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 8, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Oh, but it wasn't was it?. and the panel thought so too
> 
> http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12506/7497147/Ferris-escapes-punishment
> 
> ...


 
Is there any documentary evidence save for the word of Kearney to back this up?

Either way, this is fantastic insomuch as it is clearly boiling your piss and sense of furious injustice to an ever more molten point.

Anyways, citing commissioners: bunch of useless, self-interested cunts. I've always said so. It was obviously a tip.

This is the IRB's pigeons coming home to roost. I do seem to recall you having zero-to-less sympathy over the Warburton incident, so permit me to not really care about how cross this makes you feel. However, and this is a big however, when the IRB suddenly reinterpreted their interpretation of the tip tackle halfway through the world cup, when they retrospectively awarded reds for tip tackle yellows that had been handed out earlier in the competition, and when they censured Monsieur Rolland specifically for failing to give a red earlier in the competition, they set the stage for what happened on Sunday. I said quite clearly in my posts after the Warburton red that by not giving the ref any room for interpretation they were opening the door for any tackle that met the criteria (elbows, legs, downwards motion) to be pinged as a tip 'just to be sure'.

I personally think the citing panel bottled this decision just as much as Barnes bottled the BD decision on Sunday. By definition, what Ferris did _was _ a tip and therefore Barnes was right. However, it clearly put the player at so little risk, and was so obviously unintentional, that they would have looked like even bigger tits to have found against him, particularly in comparison to the severity of the tip he'd missed. So they did what they always do, the cowardly fucks, and shovelled it back onto Barnes.

As I have said again and again, it's the IRB who are at fault here (and in other significant areas of the game's rules and interpretations). This time, Ireland lost out as a result.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 8, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Very dangerous inconsistency in interpretation of the laws of the game at the very highest level.
> 
> That is a concern


 
Fucking right.

Tip tackles, the scrum and the breakdown have to be simplified and clarified, or the game is fucked.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 8, 2012)

1927 said:


> Openly criticising a ref for making a decision is hardly good either.


 
No. But they've got fucking previous, haven't they. They did the same against Barnes after the NZ s/f.

Fuck with the ABs or the Irish at your peril if you're a match official, eh?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 8, 2012)

.


bendeus said:


> Is there any documentary evidence save for the word of Kearney to back this up?
> 
> Either way, this is fantastic insomuch as it is clearly boiling your piss and sense of furious injustice to an ever more molten point.


I really don't think the Irish team manager would come out that by himself.

The moral victory is ours, it would frankly be expecting too much of the welsh to accept this.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> .
> I really don't think the Irish team manager would come out that by himself.
> 
> The moral victory is ours, it would frankly be expecting too much of the welsh to accept this.


 
The fuck it is. Moral victories are won by teams who were the better team and were robbed. You fail on both counts.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Either way, this is fantastic insomuch as it is clearly boiling your piss and sense of furious injustice to an ever more molten point.


 
Innit. I'm enjoying this almost as much as our superb deserved victory at the Irish National Camode stadium.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 8, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> .
> I really don't think the Irish team manager would come out that by himself.
> 
> The moral victory is ours, it would frankly be expecting too much of the welsh to accept this.




First you claimed wales were the worse team during the sin bin and shipped tries.  Now you're holding on to some sort of what you claim is a 'moral victory '.  Like I mentioned early without the Ferris call we we were on the verge of snatching a last minute victory.  I think you must've been seeing so much red mist you missed the Welsh working through those phases.. Gaining territory and advantage (and a try with one man down)... Listen your 'moral victory' means fuck all.  It's not points on the board or did it give you advantage in the stats.  Anyway how dare you bring morals into a game where the irish have,  in parts of their game had a complete disregard for the rules of rugby. You lost.  Deal with it and move on because you've got another big game this weekend.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 8, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> First you claimed wales were the worse team during the sin bin and shipped tries. Now you're holding on to some sort of what you claim is a 'moral victory '. Like I mentioned early without the Ferris call we we were on the verge of snatching a last minute victory. I think you must've been seeing so much red mist you missed the Welsh working through those phases.. Gaining territory and advantage (and a try with one man down)... Listen your 'moral victory' means fuck all. It's not points on the board or did it give you advantage in the stats. Anyway how dare you bring morals into a game where the irish have, in parts of their game had a complete disregard for the rules of rugby. You lost. Deal with it and move on because you've got another big game this weekend.


 
I wonder if Ireland are goimng for a 'moral' grand slam, now that the real 'immoral' one has passed them by, again!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 8, 2012)

Proving my point.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

1927 said:


> I wonder if Ireland are goimng for a 'moral' grand slam, now that the real 'immoral' one has passed them by, again!


 
Proper lol. English generally label grandslam 6N series they fail to win as 'non-vintage'. Clearly the Irish equivalent is 'Immoral'.

I do not suspect that we'll win all our games this year, but the prospect of a grandslam that is both non-vintage and immoral is mouthwatering, to say the least.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Oh, and can I say that this is most definitely a very vintage post-Wales/Ireland bunfight. Possibly the most cantankerous and one-eyed yet. Special mention has to go to sleater, who originally I felt was just a cross Irish chap with no sense of humour, but now think is probably the most devastatingly effective troll I believe I have ever encountered. The curmudgeonly Andy Murray impression is gold.

E2A: can I just say that RF and Flypanam have predicably remained very objective in all of this, perhaps unsurprisingly. I'm almost waiting for Mr Retro's yearly visit........


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Listen your 'moral victory' means fuck all. It's not points on the board or did it give you advantage in the stats. *Anyway how dare you bring morals into a game where the irish have, in parts of their game had a complete disregard for the rules of rugby*. You lost. Deal with it and move on because you've got another big game this weekend.


 
This thread in recent days has been giving....and giving, and giving....


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Here we go:

2011: Sleater cross and feeling robbed. Grandma Death featuring heavily. Bendy taking a calm and placatory tone, as usual.

2010: Very calm. Bendy moaning about the reffing () but nobody rising. Sleater quietly satisfied

2009: This stuff is brilliant. It's like a rugby time capsule. We discussed Lions picks. I moaned about the reffing again, and the lack of cards, but graciously conceded victory. Sleater was content. I had also predicted this victory, and it came to haunt me. Ryan Jones had a particularly poor season. Sleater making an early case for ROG's inclusion at 10 

2008: Big year this. . Again a pretty even thread, with Trippylondoner demonstrating his knowledge of rugby was about equal to that of Gabi's. A foretaste of what Sleater would have to offer in later years, maybe:




			
				sleaterkinney said:
			
		

> I don't want to seem like I'm slagging off wales, but I thought it was a poor SN actually, a lot of teams didn't show up, but you can only beat what's in front of you.


 

Was it non-vintage _and _immoral, or just non-vintage?

Anyway, I could go on. The number of posters has most certainly diminished, but the vitriol has increased proportionately. Best thread on Urban 

E2A - I also found the original Gabi - BOD quote:




			
				gabi said:
			
		

> _He's not actually that good from what I've seen. By southern hemisphere standards anyway. I think Henson would hypothetically challenge for a place in the all blacks but not O'Driscoll..._​


 
I had a fucking blast reading back over those. Got me all misty eyed, it did.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 9, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Proving my point.



The only point in this thread is clearly you are a sore loser that lives in some sort of alternative reality where wales gave away tries during a sin bin and irish were 'robbed' and occupy some sort of 'moral high ground'.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 9, 2012)

I dont think there is a faceplam big enough to post following a claim that Ireland are claiming the moral high ground. Maybe the rugby gods are exacting revenge for their total disregrad for the offside laws for the last 30 years and the fact that they have done fuck all during that time to develop rugby as the splendid expansive game it can be when played the way it should!


----------



## 1927 (Feb 9, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Proving my point.


 
The point being that you wouldnt  understand irony if it spear tackled you and drove you helpless into the ground.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 9, 2012)

Nice to see that Bendy is the  logical influence that he always is, probably one of the best writers on the wonderful game. He should take it up professionally.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 9, 2012)

1927 said:


> Nice to see that Bendy is the logical influence that he always is, probably one of the best writers on the wonderful game. He should take it up professionally.


 
As the long lost Mattie would say 'Less drugs'


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 9, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> .
> I really don't think the Irish team manager would come out that by himself.
> 
> The moral victory is ours, it would frankly be expecting too much of the welsh to accept this.


 
How bitter can you get.  Moral victory my arse. It won't get you a Grand Slam will it


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Here we go:
> 
> 2011: Sleater cross and feeling robbed. Grandma Death featuring heavily. Bendy taking a calm and placatory tone, as usual.
> 
> ...


So you went back fours years to find a quote from me not slagging off wales, slagging off the 6N instead?. With your predilection for history I'm not surprised - i bet you have Wales matches of yesteryear on 24/7


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> So you went back fours years to find a quote from me not slagging off wales, slagging off the 6N instead?. With your predilection for history I'm not surprised - i bet you have Wales matches of yesteryear on 24/7



Nothing of the sort. I was enjoying trawling through previous years, was struck  by your characteristically mean and ungenerous posting style in that particular little gem, and thought I'd spread the lulz. I'm sure you understand.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> .
> I really don't think the Irish team manager would come out that by himself.
> 
> The moral victory is ours, it would frankly be expecting too much of the welsh to accept this.



So, Erm, has this documentary evidence surfaced that the citing panel behaved in such a conspicuously unprofessional manner, or is it perhaps more likely that Kearney was talking out of his precious Irish arse in pursuance of a particular agenda?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

flypanam said:


> As the long lost Mattie would say 'Less drugs'


 
Oi!


----------



## 1927 (Feb 9, 2012)

With the exception of one reference I cannot find any news report repeating the claims that have been put forward by our Irish friend that a penalty should not have been awarded, indeed the 6nations official site makes no such claim.

However, widely quoted is this from the PA report "It was widely felt that the tackle, in which Ferris picked up Evans by his right leg and dumped him on his side, warranted a penalty at worst", so there we have it,we would have won anyway even without the yellow card, which as there were only seconds left was academic anyway.

I think that means we can now put this particular subject to bed and await the net immoral defeat for Ireland. I am kinda wishing for a refereeing fuck up this weekend to deny them a victory in Paris. Or even a poor decision that gifts them victory would be good, just to see the reaction. No doubt there will be a consensus from across the Irish sea that they didnt deserve to win and that they indeed were immoral victors. This thread might just carry on giving for sometime yet!


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

1927 said:


> With the exception of one reference I cannot find any news report repeating the claims that have been put forward by our Irish friend that a penalty should not have been awarded, indeed the 6nations official site makes no such claim.
> 
> However, widely quoted is this from the PA report "It was widely felt that the tackle, in which Ferris picked up Evans by his right leg and dumped him on his side, warranted a penalty at worst", so there we have it,we would have won anyway even without the yellow card, which as there were only seconds left was academic anyway.
> 
> I think that means we can now put this particular subject to bed and await the net immoral defeat for Ireland. I am kinda wishing for a refereeing fuck up this weekend to deny them a victory in Paris. Or even a poor decision that gifts them victory would be good, just to see the reaction. No doubt there will be a consensus from across the Irish sea that they didnt deserve to win and that they indeed were immoral victors. This thread might just carry on giving for sometime yet!



In fairness it's far less people 'across the Irish sea' and far more the vitreolic Irish media (the WM would be the same) and the deranged occupant of sleater's bedroom, wherever that may be. Other Irish posters have been far more balanced


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 9, 2012)

1927 said:


> With the exception of one reference I cannot find any news report repeating the claims that have been put forward by our Irish friend that a penalty should not have been awarded, indeed the 6nations official site makes no such claim.


 
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0209/1224311521532.html

not sure what the source is, but there you go. not that it makes an ounce of difference. 

watched last year's ireland-england game last night to cheer myself up. took them 25 mins to threaten our line.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0209/1224311521532.html
> 
> not sure what the source is, but there you go. not that it makes an ounce of difference.
> 
> watched last year's ireland-england game last night to cheer myself up. took them 25 mins to threaten our line.



Save for the word of Kearney there is nothing to indicate in that article that the event he alludes to actually took place. It's smoke and mirrors.

That England Ireland game was a fucking belter!


----------



## flypanam (Feb 9, 2012)

1927 said:


> I think that means we can now put this particular subject to bed and await the net immoral defeat for Ireland. I am kinda wishing for a refereeing fuck up this weekend to deny them a victory in Paris. Or even a poor decision that gifts them victory would be good, just to see the reaction. No doubt there will be a consensus from across the Irish sea that they didnt deserve to win and that they indeed were immoral victors. This thread might just carry on giving for sometime yet!


 
Myfawny if your gonna bait a trap, it's better not to let the prey see the bait.


----------



## gabi (Feb 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Here we go:
> 
> 2011: Sleater cross and feeling robbed. Grandma Death featuring heavily. Bendy taking a calm and placatory tone, as usual.
> 
> ...


 
Jesus bendeus..  You really need to get out more.. how old's that quote?

I know you assume you're under the impression that you're the resident Urban75 rugby oracle, but really... I mean.. seriously dude, it's a bulletin board.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 9, 2012)

gabi said:


> I know you assume you're under the impression that you're the resident Urban75 rugby oracle, but really... I mean.. seriously dude, it's a bulletin board.


 
Except when its the All Blacks eh?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Gabi said:
			
		

> Jesus bendeus..  You really need to get out more.. how old's that quote?
> 
> I know you assume you're under the impression that you're the resident Urban75 rugby oracle, but really... I mean.. seriously dude, it's a bulletin board.


Eh? As I said, I just enjoyed trawling through the old 6n threads in an attempt to work out whether this level of antagonism was the norm. During that time I happened across the original BOD quote from you that had been used to beat you with ever since. It's a gold-plated, U75 rugby thread archeological treasure I just thought I'd share


----------



## gabi (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm no great fan of the All Blacks - just a semi-keen observer of rugby as a whole. The fact that the ABs are usually #1 in the world is neither here nor there for me. I dont think the fact that I happen to be from NZ should exclude me from commenting on the northern hem sides tho.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

gabi said:


> I'm no great fan of the All Blacks.



Oh fucking yeah?


----------



## flypanam (Feb 9, 2012)

gabi said:


> I'm no great fan of the All Blacks -.


 
HAHAHAHAHA



bendeus said:


> Oh fucking yeah?


 
Well said bendy. It's like history has been erased or somthing, luckly the whole WC thread is floating around.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

flypanam said:


> HAHAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> 
> Well said bendy. It's like history has been erased or somthing, luckly the whole WC thread is floating around.


 
I've got no objections at all to Gabi supporting the ABs. He is, after all, a Kiwi.

It's more the showing up on 6N threads boasting about how much better SH sides, or the ABs, are than the European sides on display, and then bizarrely claiming some kind of neutrality. It's a well-worn path, but wearyingly familiar.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 9, 2012)

1927 said:


> Nice to see that Bendy is the logical influence that he always is, probably one of the best writers on the wonderful game. He should take it up professionally.


 

I dont think thats too far fetched a suggestion actually. Ive learnt a lot about the game from reading his posts-he's clearly incredibly well versed in the game and passionate and that could be put to good use should he consider it.


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 9, 2012)

gabi said:


> I dont think the fact that I happen to be from NZ should exclude me from commenting on the northern hem sides tho.



No, but the fact that you happen to know fuck all about rugby should.


----------



## gabi (Feb 9, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> No, but the fact that you happen to know fuck all about rugby should.


 
yawn


----------



## 1927 (Feb 9, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I dont think thats too far fetched a suggestion actually. Ive learnt a lot about the game from reading his posts-he's clearly incredibly well versed in the game and passionate and that could be put to good use should he consider it.


 
I could well see his musings on the game appearing in Sabotage Times, their style and approach is very similar. http://www.sabotagetimes.com/


----------



## flypanam (Feb 9, 2012)

Oh Deccie you are such a pie. Earls is in, giving us much more attcking ability, but even in a Munster Jersey his positioning in Defence is worrying, I'll expect France to target the D'Arcy Earls partnership and with Parra in they will be seeking to keep us back trying to run from our 22.
*IRELAND (v France):* R Kearney; T Bowe, K Earls, G D’Arcy, A Trimble; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D O’Callaghan, P O’Connell (capt), S Ferris, S O’Brien, J Heaslip.
*Replacements:* S Cronin, T Court, D Ryan, P O’Mahony, E Reddan, F McFadden, R O’Gara.

I hope we pull out an Australia like performance but otherwise i fear a 14+ loss.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I dont think thats too far fetched a suggestion actually. Ive learnt a lot about the game from reading his posts-he's clearly incredibly well versed in the game and passionate and that could be put to good use should he consider it.


 



			
				1927 said:
			
		

> I could well see his musings on the game appearing in Sabotage Times, their style and approach is very similar. http://www.sabotagetimes.com/​


​Aw shucks, you guys!​


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Team Unlikelytofails



> _WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North, Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Gethin Jenkins, Huw Bennett, Adam Jones, Ryan Jones, Ian Evans, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (C), Toby Faletau_
> 
> _REPLACEMENTS: Ken Owens, Paul James, Lou Reed, Andy Powell, Lloyd Williams, James Hook, Scott Williams_


 
Interesting that they're persisting with Cuthbert at 14 rather than bringing Hook in from the off and shoving 1/2 p out to the wing. He certainly does have potential, and without being rude, better to give him a proper crack at home against a pretty weak Scottish wide attack than 60 minutes of a tight game in Dublin.

Gethin and Lydiate come in to strengthen the pack. An extra blindside flanker in Gethin - that's 2-4 more turnovers won right there 

Sadly will lose some of Ryan's work in a looser role, but good that he's still on the pitch.

No surprises that the somewhat green Lou Reed comes on to the bench as lock cover. Let's hope he is able to act as a transformer on the pitch, ensuring a perfect day for Wales.

Can't see this side losing against the Jocks. The only aspect of the game where we concede is the lineout, but we're kind of used to that. There's a possibility it might be a bit of a tuning, but certainly no guarantee. I just don't think they'll be able to live with what we've got behind the scrum while at the same time being pretty certain that we will cope pretty easily with what they have /famous last words mode off/

E2A:




			
				Auntie Beeb said:
			
		

> Scotland captain Ross Ford says the team want Cardiff's Millennium Stadium roof closed on Sunday, to allow them to play free-flowing rugby.


 

Fair fucks, they're going to have a crack!


----------



## badlands (Feb 9, 2012)

this thread is becoming comedy gold,

but this, aimed at Bendy, brought the laughing tears to my eyes



gabi said:


> but really... I mean.. seriously dude


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Feb 9, 2012)

Ross Ford is a fool.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

badlands said:


> this thread is becoming comedy gold,
> 
> but this, aimed at Bendy, brought the laughing tears to my eyes


 
It's no laughing matter. He knows I assume I'm under the impression that I'm the resident U75 rugby oracle. How he is able to divine what I assume about an impression is unclear, but it's an impressive skill.

I am also disturbed and somewhat discomfited to find out that this is only a bulletin board. Here I sit in my stained pants in a darkened room littered with empty takeaway cartons and papered with faded, stained posters of Welsh rugby greats, thinking that it's real life, that I am the anointed rugby messiah for all of you, and that you're all my friends .

Even sleater


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Ross Ford is a fool.


 
Why? What's he done?


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Feb 9, 2012)

Thinking Scotland can come to Cardiff and play an open, expansive game despite showing no signs that they were capable of doing that at home to England. His words mean nothing.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

A lot of the success of Edinburgh this year has been built on playing a pretty expansive game. I guess they figure they can replicate this with the national setup. They certainly have the pack to generate front foot ball and I guess they figure the problem was with the execution last week, and that on another day they could have stuck 4 tries past the Saes. I suppose once you've decided on playing a certain way you need to see it out rather than desperately trying to rearrange chairs on the titanic.

I suppose they won't have that black hole of creativity, Dan Parks, there to kick all the front foot ball away this week.....


----------



## badlands (Feb 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> It's no laughing matter. He knows I assume I'm under the impression that I'm the resident U75 rugby oracle. How he is able to divine what I assume about an impression is unclear, but it's an impressive skill.
> 
> I am also disturbed and somewhat discomfited to find out that this is only a bulletin board. Here I sit in my stained pants in a darkened room littered with empty takeaway cartons and papered with faded, stained posters of Welsh rugby greats, thinking that it's real life, that I am the anointed rugby messiah for all of you, and that you're all my friends .
> 
> Even sleater


 
Where's the Gabi quote disappear to?

Looks like I'm talking about you Bendy????

These boards are weird at the mo.

Fwiw, Jonathon Davies was MOM,

so there


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Scotland captain Ross Ford says the team want Cardiff's Millennium Stadium roof closed on Sunday, to allow them to play free-flowing rugby.


 
What on earth would he know about that??

To play free flowing rugby, Scotland need 2 things:

Forwards capable of winning the ball, at least at set pieces.

Backs capable of doing something with the ball.

Scottish team for the weekend:


```
Jacobsen, Ford, Cross[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]                                Gray, Hamilton[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]                        Strokosch, Rennie, Denton[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]      Evans                      Cusiter[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]                                                    Laidlaw, S Lamont, De Luca, Jones[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]                                R Lamont
```
 
Man for man- weaker in every single position.[/code][/SIZE]


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Feb 9, 2012)

I wouldn't mind Richie Gray being in a red shirt.


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 9, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Scottish team for the weekend:
> 
> 
> [Code = Scotland]
> ...


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 9, 2012)

Dont know what's going on there
usually makes it look like the shape of the actual line up.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 9, 2012)

Right then... Predictions for the weekend. 

Italy to turn over England.  I saw nothing in the English that would warrant a 'new dawn'.. The guardian had it right when they said of England 'It was the kind of performance that under Johnson would've generated withering criticism ' Italy by seven points. 

Ireland to lose.. If they keep to the same gameplan as they did last weekend.  By eight points.  Gatland said the Irish are their most dangerous when they are seeking revenge (iirc)  well I didn't see too much danger Sunday. 

Wales to spank Scotland by 22 points. That's a massive points margin but with the confidence from last weekend.  Gethin and Dan back,  home crowd,  Scotland in dissaray.... Make for a clinical win.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 9, 2012)

So welsh fans... Dare I say it... How confident on a scale of 1-10 are you of a 3rd GS in seven years?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> It's no laughing matter. He knows I assume I'm under the impression that I'm the resident U75 rugby oracle. How he is able to divine what I assume about an impression is unclear, but it's an impressive skill.
> 
> I am also disturbed and somewhat discomfited to find out that this is only a bulletin board. Here I sit in my stained pants in a darkened room littered with empty takeaway cartons and papered with faded, stained posters of Welsh rugby greats, thinking that it's real life, that I am the anointed rugby messiah for all of you, and that you're all my friends .
> 
> Even sleater


Aww likewise bendy, except for the posters of Welsh rugby greats.

It's a big ask for us to go to paris and win, I could see them putting 10+ points on us.


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 9, 2012)

Easily.

We never beat the French.
Ever.
Especially away.

February '07 still brings a tear to my eye...


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> So welsh fans... Dare I say it... How confident on a scale of 1-10 are you of a 3rd GS in seven years?


 
Just like the WC, this is one of the best chances we've had for a while. You can never be 'confident' of a GS (just ask Ireland or England), but yes, I think we can do it with a bit of luck and relatively few injuries. If we lose Adam, Spikey, Roberts or the Priest, for example, or one more second row, the wheels could come off pretty quickly.

E2A: 6.5


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> I wouldn't mind Richie Gray being in a red shirt.


 
Lions class.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Aww likewise bendy, except for the posters of Welsh rugby greats.


 
Not even one? 



> It's a big ask for us to go to paris and win, I could see them putting 10+ points on us


 
If you showed that absolute fucking blood and guts, go for the jugular spirit you did against the Saes last year, you could really rattle the Froggies, IMO. That remains for me one of the finest performances I've seen by this Irish side, and that includes the game against the shackledraggers in the WC. There's no doubt that they're capable of it, but it doesn't seem to be something they can tap into all the time.

Do you think Kidney's position, or that of his backroom staff, is going to start being questioned at any point? If the Frogs do you by 10 then you'll be in a bit of a dogfight not to leak more games. Say you lost to England as well, would that be acceptable to the IRFU and the general rugby viewing public?

The WRU has shown pretty admirable patience and restraint with the Gatland coaching team when many, myself included, have been questioning his tenure after a number of 4th placings in the 6N. It'd be interesting to see what Deccie's KPIs are, and to what degree he'd be held to them by the powers-that-be in Dublin.

FWIW, I still think that the Irish side has a lot of class, and I also reckon that Kidney is a decent coach - interested that other Irish posters reckon it's his backroom staff that are the problem. I think your problems pretty much solely lie from 10-13. I do think you have the staff to cover those positions (Sexton to 12, Onan at 10, Bowe to 13 until BOD gets back), but it seems that people who know far more about rugby don't see it that way.

Anyway, good luck, I'll be rooting for yas.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Right then... Predictions for the weekend.
> 
> Italy to turn over England. I saw nothing in the English that would warrant a 'new dawn'.. The guardian had it right when they said of England 'It was the kind of performance that under Johnson would've generated withering criticism ' Italy by seven points. *England by 7. I have the feeling they'll be better than they were at Murrayfield, and let's be honest here, the Italians are shit.*
> 
> ...


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Oh Deccie you are such a pie. Earls is in, giving us much more attcking ability, but even in a Munster Jersey his positioning in Defence is worrying, I'll expect France to target the D'Arcy Earls partnership and with Parra in they will be seeking to keep us back trying to run from our 22.
> *IRELAND (v France):* R Kearney; T Bowe, K Earls, G D’Arcy, A Trimble; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D O’Callaghan, P O’Connell (capt), S Ferris, S O’Brien, J Heaslip.
> *Replacements:* S Cronin, T Court, D Ryan, P O’Mahony, E Reddan, F McFadden, R O’Gara.
> 
> I hope we pull out an Australia like performance but otherwise i fear a 14+ loss.


 
Rougerie is very, very large indeed, and people take winter breaks on Picamoles' lower slopes. Wales showed that the soft underbelly of this Irish side lies in the 10/12 & 12/13 channels. No coach in their right mind is not going to get their strike runners trucking up there to see who they can knock over. The cover is going to have to be decent because they'll break through there, without doubt.

You will need dominance up front in order to put in an Australia-like performance, and I can't see you getting much change out of that Froggie pack.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Just like the WC, this is one of the best chances we've had for a while. You can never be 'confident' of a GS (just ask Ireland or England), but yes, I think we can do it with a bit of luck and relatively few injuries. If we lose Adam, Spikey, Roberts or the Priest, for example, or one more second row, the wheels could come off pretty quickly.
> 
> E2A: 6.5



France normally start as an average team improving as the tournament goes on.  They started by looking good first off and I know it's hard to judge against Italy but if they carry on improving they will present a real challenge for wales if it gets to a GS decider.  I'm banking on the usual french inconsistency and welsh confide for the slam.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

badlands said:


> Where's the Gabi quote disappear to?
> 
> Looks like I'm talking about you Bendy????
> 
> ...


 
Doesn't it always bury quotes that are embedded in posts you yourself quote?

JD was one of four players (would have been 5 if Bradley hadn't been such a cock) who could have legitimately put their hands up for MoM.

I just think Ryan epitomised the unsung hero role that day with his intelligence and workrate. He was the type of six that every single member of the opposing team must have hated playing against, and was the standout in his position, which is something given the fact that two of the finest blindsides in the world were playing on the opposite side.

Says something about a team performance when fully 1/3 of them merit an honourable mention.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 9, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> France normally start as an average team improving as the tournament goes on. They started by looking good first off and I know it's hard to judge against Italy but if they carry on improving they will present a real challenge for wales if it gets to a GS decider. I'm banking on the usual french inconsistency and welsh confide for the slam.


 
If we stay uninjured I don't think they'll be able to live with us at the MS if we build sufficient momentwm. For some reason I fear the Saes most this year, but that may just be a weird, atavistic tic that harks back to the days when they used to stuff us for fun.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Not even one?


 
No room









bendeus said:


> If you showed that absolute fucking blood and guts, go for the jugular spirit you did against the Saes last year, you could really rattle the Froggies, IMO. That remains for me one of the finest performances I've seen by this Irish side, and that includes the game against the shackledraggers in the WC. There's no doubt that they're capable of it, but it doesn't seem to be something they can tap into all the time.


That's it though, no problem getting up for it Vs the Saes but we seem to have a real issue with getting worked up otherwise. The heads go down way too quickly. We could find that performance and win in France.


bendeus said:


> Do you think Kidney's position, or that of his backroom staff, is going to start being questioned at any point? If the Frogs do you by 10 then you'll be in a bit of a dogfight not to leak more games. Say you lost to England as well, would that be acceptable to the IRFU and the general rugby viewing public?


 I dunno if the problem is with the backroom staff, I think it's deeper that that. I like the what Gatland has done in bringing them all away to Poland, out of the way and instilling a work ethic etc. Kidney extended his contract last year, http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/14256765 


bendeus said:


> The WRU has shown pretty admirable patience and restraint with the Gatland coaching team when many, myself included, have been questioning his tenure after a number of 4th placings in the 6N. It'd be interesting to see what Deccie's KPIs are, and to what degree he'd be held to them by the powers-that-be in Dublin.
> 
> FWIW, I still think that the Irish side has a lot of class, and I also reckon that Kidney is a decent coach - interested that other Irish posters reckon it's his backroom staff that are the problem. I think your problems pretty much solely lie from 10-13. I do think you have the staff to cover those positions (Sexton to 12, Onan at 10, Bowe to 13 until BOD gets back), but it seems that people who know far more about rugby don't see it that way.
> 
> Anyway, good luck, I'll be rooting for yas.


BOD not being there is a big hole, but we didn't win all that much with him there. We have other problems - People not picked on form, bad tactics, poor decision making on the pitch.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2012)

anyone know where i could get tickets for the Wales France game at a resonable price..... not having any luck so far.

dont mind paying more, but not £250 each !!!


----------



## The Octagon (Feb 10, 2012)

Like the fact England are sticking with the same team. It could backfire horribly, but since this is pretty much a 'low expectation' 6N it's worth doing the "redeem yourselves" bit to the players who trudged through last week.

Reckon it could be a surprisingly good game.

Wales to spank Scotland and the Irish / French game is too close to call for me.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 10, 2012)

England to grind out a decent but unimpressive win against Italy, possibly by 7 again. Scotland to put up a good fight in Cardiff before slipping away in the last quarter and losing by 10. Ireland to not show up in Paris and lose by 15.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 10, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Do you think Kidney's position, or that of his backroom staff, is going to start being questioned at any point? If the Frogs do you by 10 then you'll be in a bit of a dogfight not to leak more games. Say you lost to England as well, would that be acceptable to the IRFU and the general rugby viewing public?


 
if we lose to france and england both it could be the start of the end for kidney, whether or not he deserves it.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 10, 2012)

So, the IRB has refuted Kearney's allegations:



> *IRB: Barnes' penalty call right*
> 
> The IRB and RBS 6 Nations have cleared referee Wayne Barnes of blame for Ireland's 23-21 defeat by Wales.
> 
> ...


 
I hasten to add that I'm not posting this as a point scorer in the Wal-Ire bunfight, but more because it's pretty interesting.

Somebody, somewhere is telling lies. Kearney's statement was later backed up by the IRFU, e.g. the governing body of Ireland corroborated what their team manager claims to have heard in the commission meeting. In response, the IRB claim to have said nothing of the sort.

If Kearney is lying, he should be censured publicly for bringing the game into disrepute. If, however, one of the citing panel _did _say something, it becomes far, far more serious on two levels:

1) The commission will have far exceeded its remit, which is to simply to assess whether an alleged or actual offence committed on the pitch should receive greater sanction than that received, or none at all. By implication they will have criticised one of their referees for doing exactly what their directive has told him to do.
2) The IRB's position on what constitutes a tip will have been fatally undermined. As mentioned previously, Ferris' tackle _was _a tip by the definition laid down, and all decisions during and post the WC have been informed by this ruling. If someone on the commission has actually said, "nah, mate, it wasn't a tip at all" to a representative of one of the unions, it makes a mockery of the position of the IRB. As a result the definition of the tip - legs beyond horizontal, player driven or dropped into the floor onto upper body or head - becomes useless, and once again open to individual and subjective interpretation.

This is why they've refuted Kearney's allegations. What Kearney and the IRFU do next will be illustrative, because they have in essence been very politely called liars. If they insist that they _did _hear what the IRB are insisting they didn't, and they name names it could get pretty interesting pretty quickly.

Either way, and with such a dreadful fudge made of the dangerous tackle law, I think they should be obliged to replay the WC semi and final again.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2012)

Got tickets for face value


----------



## bendeus (Feb 10, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Got tickets for face value


 
/thumbs/


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 10, 2012)

bendeus said:


> So, the IRB has refuted Kearney's allegations:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Thats pretty explosive stuff!


----------



## bendeus (Feb 10, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Thats pretty explosive stuff!


It'll get buried, though. Or Kearney will carry the can. Too much potential for Paddy O'Brien's boys to end up with major egg on their faces for there to be an honest conclusion.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 10, 2012)

bendeus said:


> It'll get buried, though. Or Kearney will carry the can. Too much potential for Paddy O'Brien's boys to end up with major egg on their faces for there to be an honest conclusion.


 
I dont care about the egg on their faces, there's enough egg on a certain poster here to make enough omelette for us all for a week!


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 10, 2012)

bendeus said:


> What Kearney and the IRFU do next will be illustrative


 
nobody will do or say anything. but we'll know. _we'll know. _


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 10, 2012)

Fair play, a marvellous read.  Keep it up.

And remember fellow Welsh fans, we've only won one so far.  There are no gimmes.  Scotland can still spring a surprise on us.  I'm hearing perhaps a little bit too much confidence, even from Warbs on the radio.  I just hope that the team is switched on and ready to rumble.  If Scotland get some early confidence it could be a funny old game.  When they hit the right note they're a whirlwind of a team.  On the other hand, I feel that if Wales pick up where they left off, Scotland might wilt.  On paper it's a win, even a good win, but I'm too jaded to go for the tub-thumping.  Seen too many fuck-ups.  I have a horrible feeling Scotland are going to contrive to score the first try.  Sends me cold, especially given their ineptitude in that department. 

A serious question here re France - are they really, really that good?  We should have beaten them with 14 in the RWC SF, and NZ were totally out of sorts in the final (no wonder given their almost crippling fear of not winning the RWC on home-soil).  They were 'okay' against Italy last week.  Are we building them up into an ogre?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 10, 2012)

1927 said:


> I dont care about the egg on their faces, there's enough egg on a certain poster here to make enough omelette for us all for a week!


Why?. I don't think the Irish manager and the IRFU would have made it up, the statement is simply another exercise in arse-covering, did you really expect them not to back barnes?.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 10, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Why?. I don't think the Irish manager and the IRFU would have made it up, the statement is simply another exercise in arse-covering, did you really expect them not to back barnes?.



Genuinely not picking a fight here, but didn't they have to back Barnes? He was doing their bidding after all.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 11, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Fair play, a marvellous read. Keep it up.
> 
> A serious question here re France - are they really, really that good? We should have beaten them with 14 in the RWC SF, and NZ were totally out of sorts in the final (no wonder given their almost crippling fear of not winning the RWC on home-soil). They were 'okay' against Italy last week. Are we building them up into an ogre?


 
That's a really, really good question, and one that has flashed through my mind. I guess the truth will be told by about tomorrow teatime


----------



## starfish (Feb 11, 2012)

On their day, yes. But then again they can be really really bad.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 11, 2012)

After my concern yesterday I was a bit miffed at Dr Jones saying that even Barry John would not be able to spark their back line. I was then glad to read Llewellyn state that he's confident of a Wales win due to their qualities rather than Scotland's failings. Scotland are going to be right up for this. At least Gats says it's one he expects to be close. If he's saying that the players should be on their mettle. Looking forward to seeing a bit more from all the teams this week. I'm expecting Ireland to push France all the way. The other game is too close to call but I'm putting my expectations on the saes.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 11, 2012)

i genuinely think that wales and ireland are on a par with france on ability. but france just seem to be able to produce on the day far more consistently. 

how many times have we thought france were past it, only to find ourselves heads in hands on match day.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 11, 2012)

Chances of a first ever win for Italy against England today?


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 11, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Chances of a first ever win for Italy against England today?


 
italy beat france last year and they caused more than a few problems for them last week. i can certainly see them making things very difficult for this shaky england.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 11, 2012)

Be good for the tournament, I think. There does seem to have developed a situation in the last few years whereby basically only four teams are in with a shout of the championship even before it begins.


----------



## The Boy (Feb 11, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Be good for the tournament, I think. There does seem to have developed a situation in the last few years whereby basically only four teams are in with a shout of the championship even before it begins.


 
Yup.  I wonder how big a psychological impact a victory over a 'big' name will have had.  There have been a few times when Italy have looked good enough for a win against the four strongest team but for one reason or another they haven't managed.  How are the Italian teams looking in the Magners?

Incidentally, I'm not getting to see *any* games until the last weekend so will be quite happy if France win the wooden spoon.  Bound to happen sooner rather than later and I don't really fancy watching it.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 11, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Chances of a first ever win for Italy against England today?


It's a possibility, They're playing in front of 70,000 or something today and they weren't completely useless last week against France.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 11, 2012)

snow on the ground. love it.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 11, 2012)

more heavy breathing than commentary on RTE at the moment.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Feb 11, 2012)

Come on Italy!


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 11, 2012)

nice


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 11, 2012)

C'mon Italy!


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 11, 2012)

Crikey!

e2a: wouldn't like to be in one of those changing rooms right now!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 11, 2012)

Christ, look at Guscott's scarf.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 11, 2012)

go on italy. 
you could see england getting nervous by the end of the first quarter as italy's confidence grew. great stuff.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Feb 11, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Christ, look at Guscott's scarf.


 
Just about to post that, gay as fuck.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 11, 2012)

ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The curse of Elfman strikes again


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 11, 2012)

italian scrum doesn't look great, and now castrogiovanni is gone.

anyone know if there's snow on the pitch in paris?

edit: just heard them say on rte that the pitch is covered and they're not worried about snow. concern about sexton starting though. something about a thigh injury.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 11, 2012)

tidy! go Itaaaaaly


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 11, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> italian scrum doesn't look great, and now castrogiovanni is gone.
> 
> anyone know if there's snow on the pitch in paris?
> 
> edit: just heard them say on rte that the pitch is covered and they're not worried about snow. concern about sexton starting though. something about a thigh injury.


It'll be bloody cold there


----------



## ddraig (Feb 11, 2012)

boooo


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 11, 2012)

drats. a lucky escape for england. it'll only get tougher for them now.


----------



## The Octagon (Feb 11, 2012)

The grand slam is still on


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 11, 2012)

Ah well. Begrudgingly I will admit England just about deserved it. Fucking commentators though. Who was that, Dallaglio, according to him, Italy didn't deserve a single penalty. And a bloke wandering across, not towards the ball, is 'accidental'. If it was accidental, where, exactly, did he think he was going?


----------



## joevsimp (Feb 11, 2012)

the commentary was atrocious, I only listened to it because they didn't have the option for the radio commentary on the red button, and I don't have a steam-powered radio (5live on iplayer was a good three seconds *behind* the telly)


----------



## gosub (Feb 11, 2012)

For once missed Brian Moore he'd have gone mental at an England that only won coz Italy couldn't kick


----------



## bendeus (Feb 11, 2012)

Fuck me, those were two pub teams on display today. Fucking dreadful, poorly conceived, poorly executed rugby. Neither side appeared to have a clue on how to actually play the game.

England handed a get-out-of-gaol for the second time in two weeks. WTF the Italians were thinking in terms of kicking away turnover ball in the first place is anybody's guess.

Positives for England: Farrell looked tidy, Dixon upped the pace significantly when he came on, and Morgan looked dangerous with ball in hand.

Positives for Italy: Sergio Parisse. Their halfbacks were like Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Absolutely fucking hilarious.

No doubt the English press will be spunking themselves stupid over this one if Dayglo was anything to go by. How anyone can be paid money for such cyclopean monocularity is a mystery to me. That's now 80 minutes in which they have totally failed to threaten the oppo tryline by working moves themselves.

Really wish they'd lost.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 11, 2012)

gosub said:


> For once missed Brian Moore he'd have gone mental at an England that only won coz Italy couldn't kick


Agreed. Moore actually commentates on what's happening on the field. As does Jeremy Guscott, tbf. Dallaglio was embarrassing.


----------



## gosub (Feb 11, 2012)

Moore's very partisan though. Hate it when they put him with Eddie Butler for an England Wales and consider it balanced


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 11, 2012)

It's off, too cold!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 11, 2012)

gosub said:


> Moore's very partisan though. Hate it when they put him with Eddie Butler for an England Wales and consider it balanced


I don't mind partisan as long as it isn't willfully blind.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 12, 2012)

Rumours circulating that both Sammy Bread and Lydiate are out for today's match. If true this is a crisis of fairly epic proportions given the fact that we will be missing six first choice pack members plus one backupu. Jock's strength is at lock and backrow - exactly where we're weakest. They could really starve us of possession here......

E2A: confirmed for Warbs at least


----------



## The Boy (Feb 12, 2012)

I take it last night's match was called off because the pitch was too hard to risk the Irish getting all spear-tackle-happy again?


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 12, 2012)

that is a shame, but i'm selfishly happy. levels the playing field a little and after yesterday's disappointment i really want to see some good rugby today. 

still, wales to win by at least 10 points. 

go on wales!
c'mon scotland!


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 12, 2012)

The Boy said:


> I take it last night's match was called off because the pitch was too hard to risk the Irish getting all spear-tackle-happy again?


 
there were no irish spear tackles last week, as we all now know.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 12, 2012)

is this little treat of a statistic playing on your mind today bendeus?




> On two of the three occasions they (wales) have won their first two games of the Six Nations, they have gone on to clinch the Grand Slam.


----------



## The Boy (Feb 12, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> there were no irish spear tackles last week, as we all now know.


 
Don't be so precious. You'll make gabi look sane and sensible.

eta:  I was obviously trolling.


----------



## The Boy (Feb 12, 2012)

Anyway, is it time to bring back ROG?  Sexton did nothing last night.  Then again neither did DOC.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)

*settles in*


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)

nailbiting stuff so far...


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 12, 2012)

errors stacking up for wales.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)

we could do with sorting out our line out for sure


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)

fantastic defence  

george


----------



## The Boy (Feb 12, 2012)

Surprisingly even match here.  Could be a nasty one for North though.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 12, 2012)

north gone and the scots are looking dangerous. wales have had some nice play, but not enough, and they're handing out penalties like smarties.


----------



## gabi (Feb 12, 2012)

This is world class rugby.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 12, 2012)

Game is exciting, but ragged as fuck. Wales need to play much more patiently,


----------



## gabi (Feb 12, 2012)

Some quality welsh commentary too, this would put even bendeus to shame for incisive impartiality..

Johnathan Davies on the beeb: 'Some great defence here from the Welsh, particularly from the men in red'

Oh dear.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)




----------



## The Boy (Feb 12, 2012)

What is it about Robinson's Half-time team talks?


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)

lovely


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)

woo


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)

oops


----------



## The Boy (Feb 12, 2012)

Game over.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)

not yet


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 12, 2012)

good match that


----------



## ddraig (Feb 12, 2012)

yay
bring on the orcs!


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2012)

That was a great game. The Scots battled hard too. Top entertainment!


----------



## badlands (Feb 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> This is world class rugby.


 
please end all your utterances with dude

please


----------



## bendeus (Feb 12, 2012)

Once more the sideshow of the six nations only serves to remind me of the consistently sumptuous feasts of rugby served up by the boys from the SH. Thanks so much for popping along to remind us, Gabi. It's a wonder that it attracts so many viewers, really, and provides the financial platform that allows the SH unions to keep going when they tour in the Autumn.

Anyway, I hate to tear us away from the vigorous wanking we must be indulging in at the thought of Dan Carter's thighs, but...........

So Poite was the villain of the piece here. Both sides didn't fare well from it, but Wales came off worse. His officiating of the breakdown was nothing short of a disgrace, an absolute bloody shambles. Spikey was having a mare in the first half precisely because Scottish players were consistently being allowed to play the ball and the man from the ground, to come in at the side, to hang about in an offside position and to lazily wander about on the wrong side of the ruck. I was also surprised to learn that it appears to be entirely legal to come into a ruck horizontally like a fucking exocet missile.

Wales got cute in the second half when they realised there were no rules at the tackle area or at rucktime, and that they could exploit it.

Scotland were also using off the ball blocking ALL THE FUCKING TIME. I lost count of the amount of times the ball carrier seemed to be trucking it up with another player trundling about between them and the tackler. Poite didn't seem to care about offside, accidental or otherwise.

Anyway, thought the Jocks look a couple of players short of a very handy outfit, and feel that if they keep their composure and back themselves the win won't be far away. I thought that they'd starve us of possession, and in the first half they did just that. The amount of times I saw a big Warburton shaped hole at the tackle that was just begging for a steal, only for nobody to be there....

We turned it on in the second half. Impressive performances from Ryan (again), who was fucking everywhere, Lydiate, who did what Lydiate does and just pound oppo ball carriers on the gainline, Gethin and Jonathan Davies (though he really needs to learn when to pass). Special mention to Cuthbert, who was a right handful, and to my MoM, Halfpenny, who never, ever puts a foot wrong, bless him. 

Couple of brainfarts out there today. We lacked composure and often made the wrong decision. This was in the main due to relatively quiet/poor performances from Spikey and the Priest. Still having a tendency to kick ball away when we should be keeping it in hand. JD is straightening the line a lot more, so at least we're not crabbing.

Our defence was, in the main, outstanding, with Scottish ball carriers frequently being brought down behind the gainline. With Warburton on the pitch (or Tipuric) we'd have forced them to cough a lot more ball. Lineout was shit as usual until Owens came on. I don't fucking care if he's less able defensively or as a first up carrier - he can hit his man in the lineout, thank fuck.

Gray and Denton stood out in an excellent forward performance for the Jocks. Two potential Lions contenders there. Young Hogg looks a right livewire - can't understand why he didn't start for them. 

Sadly, it wasn't NZ or Australia out there, but I guess we just have to live with the scraps we're given, eh?


----------



## gabi (Feb 12, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Sadly, it wasn't NZ or Australia out there, but I guess we just have to live with the scraps we're given, eh?


 
Dude...

Pfft... Good performance in the second half, thanks to some very dodgy reffing. But I hardly think SBW will be taking time out of his boxing training schedule to view this. Top singing at the start though, as always, dude.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> Dude...
> 
> Pfft... Good performance in the second half, thanks to some very dodgy reffing. But I hardly think SBW will be taking time out of his boxing training schedule to view this. Top singing at the start though, as always, dude.


 
a big, wide yaaaaawn.


----------



## gabi (Feb 12, 2012)

badlands said:


> please end all your utterances with dude
> 
> please


 
Dude, you're Welsh right? Get back to me on rugby once that status changes, or at least until your manager's not a Kiwi, your assistant manager's not English, and your best player's not Tongan... yeh? dude?


----------



## starfish (Feb 12, 2012)

I think im actually more pissed off than i was after the Calcutta Cup match. 21 phases just to fuck it up 2 feet from the line & then to hand Wales a try on a plate at the start of the second half.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> Dude...
> 
> Pfft... Good performance in the second half, thanks to some very dodgy reffing. But I hardly think SBW will be taking time out of his boxing training schedule to view this. Top singing at the start though, as always, dude.


 
Can't wait to see SBW take on Klitschko and get his arse well and truly spanked.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> Dude, you're Welsh right? Get back to me on rugby once that status changes, or at least until your manager's not a Kiwi, your assistant manager's not English, and your best player's not Tongan... yeh? dude?


 
You thought Faletau was our best player? Riiiggghtt. A Kiwi is lecturing _me _on having PI-born players shoring up my side? Riiiggghtt

You are a fucking know-nothing, cretinous fuckmuppet, but I guess you're _our_ fucking know-nothing, cretinous fuckmuppet, and rather like seasonal flooding, there is nothing we can do to ensure you don't recur. As such we should treat you with pity rather than scorn.

I would, however, like to award you 0.1/10 on the troll-or-droll-ometer. You're fucking shit at it, but I guess if you fling around enough of your own ordure, a bit of it will end up dripping off the furniture.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 12, 2012)

starfish said:


> I think im actually more pissed off than i was after the Calcutta Cup match. 21 phases just to fuck it up 2 feet from the line & then to hand Wales a try on a plate at the start of the second half.


 
Scotland are close, and getting closer. Some mutton-brained nincompoops will have failed to realise that your record against SH sides recently has been pretty decent, and that in recent years you have won out in Dublin and pushed France very close.

1-15 I can no longer say that not a single Jock player would get into a Wales side, and 1-15 I can no longer say the same about the Lions. You've got a very solid base from which to work now. If Hogg comes on and you add that bit more guile to your backline you could really start doing some damage. 

A strong Scotland would be wonderful for NH rugby, IMO.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 12, 2012)

badlands said:


> please end all your utterances with dude
> 
> please



Ha!


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2012)

just back, was 20 foot away from the tryline, and boy was it good for the second half 

fucking ace day and now i need sleeps...


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 13, 2012)

bendeus said:


> So Poite was the villain of the piece here. Both sides didn't fare well from it, but Wales came off worse. His officiating of the breakdown was nothing short of a disgrace, an absolute bloody shambles. Spikey was having a mare in the first half precisely because Scottish players were consistently being allowed to play the ball and the man from the ground, to come in at the side, to hang about in an offside position and to lazily wander about on the wrong side of the ruck.


 
We all have preferences as to how we prefer to see the game being played.  Why shouldn't the refs?
The rules are what the boss says they are.  I preferred that he wasn't whistle happy and allowed the game to go on.
Unlike the anti-rugby ELVs, he was happy for tacklers to have another bite.
Coming in at the side is a fair criticism, but being on the wrong side at the ruck?
I think the refs should have a total laissez-faire attitude.  If you're lying on the wrong side of a ruck, you take your life in your hands and take whatever comes your way.   If you live- you get a medal, if you don't, at least you've taught a valuable lesson.




bendeus said:


> I was also surprised to learn that it appears to be entirely legal to come into a ruck horizontally like a fucking exocet missile.


 
Tell me it doesn't make you smile a little when that hit flies in.



bendeus said:


> Wales got cute in the second half when they realised there were no rules at the tackle area or at rucktime, and that they could exploit it.


  Play to rules, not within them.  That's what wins world cups.



bendeus said:


> Scotland were also using off the ball blocking ALL THE FUCKING TIME. I lost count of the amount of times the ball carrier seemed to be trucking it up with another player trundling about between them and the tackler. Poite didn't seem to care about offside, accidental or otherwise.


Dirty cheating bastards?



bendeus said:


> A strong Scotland would be a wonderful thing for NH rugby


They don't deserve it.  The SRU decided they couldn't be bothered investing in rugby.  They don't deserve to succeed.
Two professional teams and they harbour dreams of winning a grand slam again?
I hope they get relegated from the 6N in favour of Georgia, or Romania, or anyone else in fact.
And they are overtaken by Namibia in the international rankings.


----------



## elfman (Feb 13, 2012)

Will get round to watching Wales v Scotland today hopefully. I hope it's better quality than Italy v England 

Thank fuck we have Farrell. He's far too confident for a 20 yo with the boot. Even though I'm generally a fan of Youngs, I think he should sit the next one out for Dickson to come in. Dowson doesn't seem that great either and Morgan looks like he played himself in to the starting line up. Tuilagi, Lawes and Flood should all be fit for the next games too, so hopefully the performance will improve. Although I think we should stick with Hodgson rather than bring Flood into the starting XV as I've never rated Flood and it's not like we need his kicking abilities with Farrell doing so well there.

I'm confident we can win one out of the next 3 games, despite being terrible so far.

Grand Slam still on though 


ps. I think I have a man crush on Parisse. I even dreamt about him last night.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 13, 2012)

For me halfpenny (he's a work horse fairplay),  Cuthbert and Lydiate were outstanding.  Scotland were quite tasty second half and I'm not even sure why they didn't play like that last week in front of a home crowd.  Bit worried about our line ups. They were that bad against the pumas in the autumn internationals and we got better in the rwc.  We need to tighten them up or they could prove our downfall.  Can't see england getting anywhere near us.  They are still looking too wet behind the ears and not playing as a team.  Those two tries gifted to the Italians were a farce and not what you expect at this level.  Wales for a triple crown for sure.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 13, 2012)

elfman said:


> Will get round to watching Wales v Scotland today hopefully. I hope it's better quality than Italy v England
> 
> Thank fuck we have Farrell. He's far too confident for a 20 yo with the boot. Even though I'm generally a fan of Youngs, I think he should sit the next one out for Dickson to come in. Dowson doesn't seem that great either and Morgan looks like he played himself in to the starting line up. Tuilagi, Lawes and Flood should all be fit for the next games too, so hopefully the performance will improve. Although I think we should stick with Hodgson rather than bring Flood into the starting XV as I've never rated Flood and it's not like we need his kicking abilities with Farrell doing so well there.
> 
> ...




England will not win another match.  I bet a hundred quid on that.  Based on the performances of Wales,  Ireland and France thus far I think it's a fair assessment to make.


----------



## starfish (Feb 13, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Scotland are close, and getting closer. Some mutton-brained nincompoops will have failed to realise that your record against SH sides recently has been pretty decent, and that in recent years you have won out in Dublin and pushed France very close.
> 
> 1-15 I can no longer say that not a single Jock player would get into a Wales side, and 1-15 I can no longer say the same about the Lions. You've got a very solid base from which to work now. If Hogg comes on and you add that bit more guile to your backline you could really start doing some damage.
> 
> A strong Scotland would be wonderful for NH rugby, IMO.


 
True but both of those wins (Aus & SA) were pretty scrappy & we could just have easily have lost them. We lack consistency. We need a bit more nous & maybe a bit of luck. Our mistakes seem to be punished more than other teams.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 13, 2012)

Went back to Dublin for the weekend and only saw the Italy v England game. I thought Masi's performance at fullback for Italy was the worst I had seen for a long time. He was a shambles. his multiple errrors and poor positioning really undermined a determined but really flawed team.

I think the weather really saved us, however as France tend to get better as the championship rolls on I'm feeling pretty depressed or that could just be my monstrous hangover.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 13, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> England will not win another match. I bet a hundred quid on that.


 
I'd love that to be true, but from what I've read even Eo'S is saying four internationals in 4 weeks is too much. For all the money that players get, fatigue causes injury and I wouldn't want any of the Irish or French squads to be so knackered that someone get fucked.

Ireland may struggle against England on Paddies day.

I've just watched hi-lites of the Wa\les game. Awesome win boys. If I was Ireland coach, i'd be showing that as a lesson in ability to see a game plan through and how to close a game out.

Just want to add that I think bendy has suggested that some of Irish posters think that it is the backroom team rather than Kidney is to blame for our current malaise. I don't think that at all. I blame Kidney, he's the head coach he sets the tone, Kidney seems to be the kindly uncle that is pretty good for a €5 on yr birthday but is actually pretty not much good after that. I don't want to put him down too much after all he's done but time marches on and I can't face the prospect of getting up and smiling every year and thinking 'we'll beat Scotland.' Thrills.Me.Not.Pedro.

At the moment it seems to me that it is only Feek that ssems to be steping up to task of making the scrum effective. I'm wondering if it would be a good time for Smal to jump ship and go to SA where Meyer will no doubt be looking for a forwards coach. I certainly don't think that our defensive coach should also have the mantle of being our attack coach. It may be too much for Les.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 13, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> England will not win another match. I bet a hundred quid on that. Based on the performances of Wales, Ireland and France thus far I think it's a fair assessment to make.


 
As Elfman says, they've some pretty tidy players to come back in. And they're the Saes. They have a decent setpiece and a strong defence, and they'll grind you into submission if they're given half the chance. They're also 2 and 0. As much motivation for them as for us.

I have a feeling of foreboding about the game at HQ.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 13, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Wales for a triple crown for sure.


 
 What are you doing????


----------



## bendeus (Feb 13, 2012)

starfish said:


> True but both of those wins (Aus & SA) were pretty scrappy & we could just have easily have lost them. We lack consistency. We need a bit more nous & maybe a bit of luck. Our mistakes seem to be punished more than other teams.


 
It reminded me of Wales a few years ago. Finally some quality coming into the team, but still missing out due to collective brainfarts. In this instance Scotland were undone in 15 minutes of rugby. For the rest they either had parity or dominated.

The amount of times I've seen Wales gamely huff and puff and go in evens at half time, only for a nightmarish spell to see the oppo just cruise away. This time, however, Wales were that oppo. We were utterly, utterly clinical when we needed to be, and that's what made the difference out there.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 13, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Went back to Dublin for the weekend and only saw the Italy v England game. I thought Masi's performance at fullback for Italy was the worst I had seen for a long time. He was a shambles. his multiple errrors and poor positioning really undermined a determined but really flawed team.
> 
> I think the weather really saved us, however as France tend to get better as the championship rolls on I'm feeling pretty depressed or that could just be my monstrous hangover.


 
Masi's 'performance' was matched by every member of that backline, esp. the halfbacks. With the possible exception of Canale they were fucking bobbins.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 13, 2012)

flypanam said:


> I've just watched hi-lites of the Wa\les game. Awesome win boys. If I was Ireland coach, i'd be showing that as a lesson in ability to see a game plan through and how to close a game out.


 
If you watched the highlights I can excuse you for thinking that. It was a hard-fought win with a scoreline that flattered us. A far, far worse performance than we put in against you boys. But yeah, they stayed on script and kept up their work in defence, to their credit.



> Just want to add that I think bendy has suggested that some of Irish posters think that it is the backroom team rather than Kidney is to blame for our current malaise. I don't think that at all. I blame Kidney, he's the head coach he sets the tone, Kidney seems to be the kindly uncle that is pretty good for a €5 on yr birthday but is actually pretty not much good after that. I don't want to put him down too much after all he's done but time marches on and I can't face the prospect of getting up and smiling every year and thinking 'we'll beat Scotland.' Thrills.Me.Not.Pedro.


 
Bit of a nightmare sacking your only GS winning coach in 50+ years though, innit?


----------



## starfish (Feb 13, 2012)

bendeus said:


> It reminded me of Wales a few years ago. Finally some quality coming into the team, but still missing out due to collective brainfarts. In this instance Scotland were undone in 15 minutes of rugby. For the rest they either had parity or dominated.
> 
> The amount of times I've seen Wales gamely huff and puff and go in evens at half time, only for a nightmarish spell to see the oppo just cruise away. This time, however, Wales were that oppo. We were utterly, utterly clinical when we needed to be, and that's what made the difference out there.


 
A lot like the World Cup. 5 minutes against Argentina & England cost us a quarter final place. And now, both the 6 nations games were winnable, we should be looking at a triple crown but i reckon we'll be very very lucky to not finish last.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 13, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> We all have preferences as to how we prefer to see the game being played. Why shouldn't the refs?
> The rules are what the boss says they are. I preferred that he wasn't whistle happy and allowed the game to go on.
> Unlike the anti-rugby ELVs, he was happy for tacklers to have another bite.
> Coming in at the side is a fair criticism, but being on the wrong side at the ruck?
> I think the refs should have a total laissez-faire attitude. If you're lying on the wrong side of a ruck, you take your life in your hands and take whatever comes your way. If you live- you get a medal, if you don't, at least you've taught a valuable lesson.


 
Poite failed to referee the breakdown, period. I've been looking at some comments made by Scots about his performance, and they're equally critical. I only see infringements by the other side, see, not my own, but he failed both teams out there on Sunday. You have to referee the basics properly, and this is not just down to interpretation, but to ensuring continuity, to making sure that teams are able to contest fairly, and in the instance of players flying in horizontal to the ruck, to prevent serious player injury.

To me, being at the wrong side of the ruck in the manner that a lot of professionals do it these days is just as bad as coming in from the side. The tackler just deliberately rolling onto the wrong side in order to spoil ball at rucktime, and then sticking their hands up in the air as though that is a guarantee of innocence is a fucking pain in the arse (a curiously Irish one, I have to say )

You don't take your life in your hands if you do it any more, though, do you? Aggressive use of the studs is now illegal, and citeable. More's the fucking pity. Bring back proper rucking and you end the problem immediately.




> Tell me it doesn't make you smile a little when that hit flies in.


 
I don't smile at all when a hit like the one Bakkies or D. Ryan made on Adam Jones goes in, no. Far fucking from it.




> Play to rules, not within them. That's what wins world cups.


 
Quite. But when the ref abdicates all responsibility for a key area of contest during the game you end up with a lottery. If I wanted one of those I'd play the lottery.



> Dirty cheating bastards?


 
It was clearly their gameplan from the off.





> They don't deserve it. The SRU decided they couldn't be bothered investing in rugby. They don't deserve to succeed.
> Two professional teams and they harbour dreams of winning a grand slam again?
> I hope they get relegated from the 6N in favour of Georgia, or Romania, or anyone else in fact.
> And they are overtaken by Namibia in the international rankings.


 
Blimey, them's harsh words, RF. Do you think that the SRU had the money to invest in the first place, or indeed that there is sufficient demand for regional-level rugby in Scotland to warrant the investment?


----------



## starfish (Feb 13, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> They don't deserve it. The SRU decided they couldn't be bothered investing in rugby. They don't deserve to succeed.
> Two professional teams and they harbour dreams of winning a grand slam again?
> I hope they get relegated from the 6N in favour of Georgia, or Romania, or anyone else in fact.
> And they are overtaken by Namibia in the international rankings.


 
There isnt the fanbase for more than 2. They tried a Borders team but i dont the Borderers wanted one. Too parochial down there.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 13, 2012)

starfish said:


> There isnt the fanbase for more than 2. They tried a Borders team but i dont the Borderers wanted one. Too parochial down there.


 
My thoughts also.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 13, 2012)

France match descends in to high farce, blazer harrumphing, pointing of waggy Gallic fingers, and shrugging of Gallic shoulders.

Was it:

a) France rugby
b) French TV
c) The IRB
d) The 6 Nations blazers
e) An unholy combination of the above.

My money's on France rugby at the moment. What the fuck they were thinking by not pulling the game back to the slightly more clement afternoon is anyone's guess. Apparently they want it replayed in June, now, because of the tight T14 schedule. LOL.

Even Rabo 14 direct Mickey Mouse league has processes and structures in place to deal with matches being snowed off, but apparently the second biggest rugby competition in the world doesn't.

*slow hand claps*


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 13, 2012)

uote="bendeus, post: 10917537, member: 7058"]As Elfman says, they've some pretty tidy players to come back in. And they're the Saes. They have a decent setpiece and a strong defence, and they'll grind you into submission if they're given half the chance. They're also 2 and 0. As much motivation for them as for us.

I have a feeling of foreboding about the game at HQ.[/quote]

Is that you just being the eternal pessimist a trademark of some welsh fans.  My criticisms of England are plenty.  I think Lancaster,  in attempt to draw a line under the nightmare that is the rwc,  has been too enthusiastic with the broom.  He's compiled a team too top heavy with inexperience.  I think you need them right balance between the experienced and inexperienced and that's where gatland struck gold in the rwc.  He struck that right balance.  I think it was the opening English match where the pundits pointed out that there were only a couple or three from the original English line up from just two years ago iirc??  The guardian today pointed out (and correctly imo)  that England have had a couple of get out of jail cards plus a a couple of lucky charge downs which have saved them really.  The way they leaked those two Italian tries just can't happen at this level with wales who aren't flying on all cylinders.  The errors alone will get punished harshly by wales.  I just think we have so much confidence.  So much quality off and on the bench and we're gelling well even with key players out.  I can't see england beating us even with some of their key players back.  We have the liberty of a team vying for a place... England are on the ground floor rebuilding.  We'll beat em and the scoreline won't even be that close.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 13, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Is that you just being the eternal pessimist a trademark of some welsh fans. My criticisms of England are plenty. I think Lancaster, in attempt to draw a line under the nightmare that is the rwc, has been too enthusiastic with the broom. He's compiled a team too top heavy with inexperience. I think you need them right balance between the experienced and inexperienced and that's where gatland struck gold in the rwc. He struck that right balance. I think it was the opening English match where the pundits pointed out that there were only a couple or three from the original English line up from just two years ago iirc?? The guardian today pointed out (and correctly imo) that England have had a couple of get out of jail cards plus a a couple of lucky charge downs which have saved them really. *The way they leaked those two Italian tries won't happen at this level with wales who aren't flying on all cylinders*. *The errors alone will get punished harshly by wales. I just think we have so much confidence*. So much quality off and on the bench and we're gelling well even with key players out.* I can't see england beating us even with some of their key players back*. We have the liberty of a team vying for a place... *England are on the ground floor rebuilding. We'll beat em and the scoreline won't even be that close.*


 
Ffycin 'ell, mun! Yewer breakin' all the rules!


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Ffycin 'ell, mun! Yewer breakin' all the rules!



I like to think of myself as a realist not tainted by blind patriotism.  I feel confidence when it's called for.  I don't believe in bad luck or previous performances. Cmon dude.  We're on a roll?  Not sure where that roll will take us but it'll be sufficient enough to roll over a fresh,  new and ineffective English team.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 14, 2012)

I've got a tenner on wales being above england in this year's six nations and another tenner with england to lose to wales.  Easiest twenty quid I've made in my life


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 14, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> My criticisms of England are plenty. I think Lancaster, in attempt to draw a line under the nightmare that is the rwc, has been too enthusiastic with the broom. He's compiled a team too top heavy with inexperience. I think you need them right balance between the experienced and inexperienced and that's where gatland struck gold in the rwc. He struck that right balance. I think it was the opening English match where the pundits pointed out that there were only a couple or three from the original English line up from just two years ago iirc??


 
They should have done this years ago. 
Where does experience come from?  Game time.
Get a solid looking bunch of kids together, win a few games, lose a few games, gel together, learn together.
He's doing everything right.
Every international manager should be aiming 4 years from now.
The next world cup is the big prize.  You won't win that by bringing in the old guard.
Grit and experience get called up as you edge nearer to the holy grail in 2-3 years time and need to win crucial fixtures.
For now- leave it with the kids.  If they win, all the better.  If the don't, blame it on the game plan.



Grandma Death said:


> The guardian today pointed out (and correctly imo) that England have had a couple of get out of jail cards plus a a couple of lucky charge downs which have saved them really. The way they leaked those two Italian tries just can't happen at this level with wales who aren't flying on all cylinders. The errors alone will get punished harshly by wales. I just think we have so much confidence. So much quality off and on the bench and we're gelling well even with key players out. I can't see england beating us even with some of their key players back. We have the liberty of a team vying for a place... England are on the ground floor rebuilding. We'll beat em and the scoreline won't even be that close.


 
Sometimes being lucky is preferable to being good.


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 14, 2012)

Jonah Lomu is back on dialysis again and on the waiting list for another kidney...


----------



## elfman (Feb 14, 2012)

Just saw the Wales v Scotland match.

I was pretty impressed by Scotland (apart from that nightmare 15 mins on the 2nd half) and I think they'll avoid the wooden spoon if they can build on that.

England WILL NOT beat Wales, I'm sure of that, but I reckon we could win Ireland in a few weeks time, or even France with their infamous inconsistency.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 14, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> They should have done this years ago.
> Where does experience come from?  Game time.
> Get a solid looking bunch of kids together, win a few games, lose a few games, gel together, learn together.
> He's doing everything right.
> ...



They have to start somewhere I agree.  But given how they have been performing their time hasn't come.  Few years maybe but not now.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 14, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Sometimes being lucky is preferable to being good.




Yep I agree but they ain't gonna be gifted such luck in their next three matches.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 14, 2012)

Saw jiffy on scrum v last night and he said something along the lines 'The physicality of the welsh team and their back line will just smash the english'....I think that a fair assessment.  I'm feeling supremely confident and I don't even feel like I'm tweaking the nose of fate by saying so either.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Bit of a nightmare sacking your only GS winning coach in 50+ years though, innit?


 
Dunno about sacking him but if rumours are true about some unhappiness in the camp, then it is time he either fixed it by changing up the way he sets the tone or left.

Anyway I've just seen that L'Equipe are saying a the game should be postponed until autumn. What bubble does the FFR live in? It surly can't benefit anyone to mess around with the fixture lists to that extent. I wonder if the FFR sees the priority being the Top 14.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 14, 2012)

all the bookies have Wales for the Triple and most odds seem to favour the grandslam


----------



## 1927 (Feb 14, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Dunno about sacking him but if rumours are true about some unhappiness in the camp, then it is time he either fixed it by changing up the way he sets the tone or left.
> 
> Anyway I've just seen that L'Equipe are saying a the game should be postponed until autumn. What bubble does the FFR live in? It surly can't benefit anyone to mess around with the fixture lists to that extent. I wonder if the FFR sees the priority being the Top 14.


 
It'll be irrelevant after we have won GS anyway, the 2nd place decider.


----------



## The Boy (Feb 14, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Dunno about sacking him but if rumours are true about some unhappiness in the camp, then it is time he either fixed it by changing up the way he sets the tone or left.
> 
> Anyway I've just seen that L'Equipe are saying a the game should be postponed until autumn. What bubble does the FFR live in? It surly can't benefit anyone to mess around with the fixture lists to that extent. I wonder if the FFR sees the priority being the Top 14.


 
The clubs don't *have* to release the players, and are threatening not too.  Can't find the full statement from FFR but doesn't sound like they are serious about playing it in September.  Seems to be a lot of politicking going on in French rugby atm - club v country, deal to use SdF is up next year etc.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 14, 2012)

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0214/1224311765460.html


----------



## bendeus (Feb 14, 2012)

The Boy said:


> The clubs don't *have* to release the players, and are threatening not too. Can't find the full statement from FFR but doesn't sound like they are serious about playing it in September. Seems to be a lot of politicking going on in French rugby atm - club v country, deal to use SdF is up next year etc.


 
Fuck 'em then. They forfeit, Ireland non-BP win, everyone happy. You can't fuck around with the 6N like that


----------



## bendeus (Feb 14, 2012)

\





B0B2oo9 said:


> all the bookies have Wales for the Triple and most odds seem to favour the grandslam


 
Bah, what do _they _know. There's too much triumphalism and we haven't beaten anyone decent yet.

Heeeerrrrrrre, fishy, fishy, fishy


----------



## bendeus (Feb 14, 2012)

flypanam said:


> http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0214/1224311765460.html


Not that you'll ever normally see me leaping to the defence of the IRFU, but that's fucking outrageous. Why should the Irish suffer for French failure?


----------



## The Boy (Feb 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Not that you'll ever normally see me leaping to the defence of the IRFU, but that's fucking outrageous. Why should the Irish suffer for French failure?


 
Pfft.  We turned the mighty Wales over after a six day turnaround


----------



## bendeus (Feb 14, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Pfft. We turned the mighty Wales over after a six day turnaround


 
 you don't _seriously _want to start all that off again, do you?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 14, 2012)

Just been frequenting another rugby thread, of which I'm very fond.

Interesting question from there: does anybody give a fuck about the championship?

For me, it's in this order: GS, Triple Crown, Championship

I guess I'm becoming a bit of an old timer (38-y-o), so the TC is still something that has resonance with me from the days of the 5N.

I couldn't honestly give a fucking hoot about the championship. Is that weird?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 14, 2012)

E2A: please don't bother digging up previous posts I made that devalued the TC after Ireland had won it. I am aware of my own hypocrisy


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 14, 2012)

George North looks like hes gonna be fit for english match


----------



## bendeus (Feb 14, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> George North looks like hes gonna be fit for english match


 

Gogzilla rises


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 15, 2012)

They actually suggested playing it in the Autumn...

Fuck that- I'll take a walkover please
We turned up in Paris, at the agreed time, on the agreed date, and they didn't pull their fucking act together
Fuck 'em

Of course the slam is more prestigious  
It's the royal flush
But winning the tournament is still significant
The triple crown is of historical significance, but really- means fuck all
EOS won triple crowns ten a penny, but could never beat france, could never manage that elusive GS

Perhaps its taking a victory over italy for granted that diminishes the championship in your mind  
Perhaps if they won regularly- then you might hold the achievement in higher regard
When you talk of beating france in paris- it must be one hell of a game of rugby
When you talk of beating italy in rome, you think what a wonderful holiday to have- especially in march1


----------



## elfman (Feb 15, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Just been frequenting another rugby thread, of which I'm very fond.
> 
> Interesting question from there: does anybody give a fuck about the championship?
> 
> ...


 
For me it's: Grand Slam, Championship, Triple Crown.

It seems the most logical thing to me. Maybe cos I don't care much about local rivalries. It could be an English thing or maybe cos I'm young (compared to an old man like you anyway ) , I dunno...


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 15, 2012)

elfman said:


> For me it's: Grand Slam, Championship, Triple Crown.
> 
> It seems the most logical thing to me. Maybe cos I don't care much about local rivalries. It could be an English thing or maybe cos I'm young (compared to an old man like you anyway ) , I dunno...


 
Its all about context for me. I agree with your order but the triple crown means a lot more if you'd say won the championship/slam the year before.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 15, 2012)

Wales to dominate Lions selection, says an Irishman:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/redhot-welsh-in-line-to-dominate-lions-selection-3019862.html

9 Welsh, 5 Irish and a Saes.

Me, I'd have:

15 - 1/2p
14 - Bowe
13 - Jonathan Davies
12 - Roberts
11 - North
10 - Priestland
9 - Phillips
8 - Faletau
7 - Warbs
6 - SOB
5 - POC
4 - AWJ
3 - Adam
2 - Best
1 - Gethin

Bench - C Healey, R Grey, Hook, Kearney, M Rees, Conor Murray, Ferris

11 Welsh, 4 Irish, No Saes.

Oh look! None on the bench either


----------



## bendeus (Feb 15, 2012)

What does a man have to do to get a bite around here?


----------



## The Boy (Feb 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> What does a man have to do to get a bite around here?


 
Better than that?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 16, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Better than that?


Pfft. I've dined out on less.


----------



## elfman (Feb 16, 2012)

I'd bite but you know there will be a couple of English will get selected whether you like it or not. After the 6 nations I'll give my preferred line up. (If I remember to anyways)


----------



## flypanam (Feb 16, 2012)

Bendy and Hugh Farrelly sitting in tree....


----------



## flypanam (Feb 16, 2012)

...discussing premature ejaculation.

btw I love the guy but Tommy won't be on the lions trip on current form. Funny how Farrrelly is discussing it now with a six nations to finish and another one to start. Mind. Boggles.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 16, 2012)

english arrogance and xenophobia on twitter! 
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...h-wales-rugby-fans-on-twitter-91466-30301735/?
twats


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 16, 2012)

Well Healy is a twat. It'd be interesting to note what abuse he was getting before we start pinning accusations of xenophobia, eh?

I have to say though that one of the better things (from an England perspective) that has come out of this 6 nations is the lack of arrogance from the current England squad and set-up, also so much better discipline both on and off the pitch.


----------



## The Octagon (Feb 16, 2012)

The article doesn't contain any xenophobic quotes from Healey (unless not thinking the Welsh played well is xenophobic? Wrong certainly, given the results / performances, but can't see much to get wound up about).

Bet worse has been slung at him in the other direction 

Grant Holt's comments are more dickish IMO, but then again football vs rugby, usually football wins that one anyway.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 16, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Well Healy is a twat. It'd be interesting to note what abuse he was getting before we start pinning accusations of xenophobia, eh?
> 
> I have to say though that one of the better things (from an England perspective) that has come out of this 6 nations is the lack of arrogance from the current England squad and set-up, also so much better discipline both on and off the pitch.


It less proves that he is xenophobic than the fact that he is barely articulate, and doesnt' know how to use commas.


----------



## Pingu (Feb 17, 2012)

part of me is relishing the match against england. I will probably be one of about 3 people in the bar wearing red whilst all the rest will be in white...

however i never underestimate our ability to self destruct and screw things up so badly that a page full of facepalms would be needed.


so i will save any crowing oroverenthusiasm until after the match


----------



## elfman (Feb 17, 2012)

Austin Healy. Proper massive bellend indeed.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 17, 2012)

Pingu said:


> part of me is relishing the match against england. I will probably be one of about 3 people in the bar wearing red whilst all the rest will be in white...
> 
> however i never underestimate our ability to self destruct and screw things up so badly that a page full of facepalms would be needed.
> 
> ...


 
I think realistically Wales have to go into the match as hot favourites, the only thing England have going for them is that it is at Twickenham.  Wales have looked very strong, particuarly in the backs and I can see them scoring at least three tries. 

If I'm being honest England havent really looked like scoring a try in either game, apart from two shonky charge downs we havent really created an awful lot, I can't see that changing next week.


----------



## Karac (Feb 17, 2012)

Wales wil be going into the match against England at Twickenham as favourites for the first time in 20 years
Could be an almost full-strength Welsh side


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 17, 2012)

Karac said:


> Wales wil be going into the match against England at Twickenham as favourites for the first time in 20 years
> Could be an almost full-strength Welsh side



Wales have won just twice in 24 years at twickers I've read.  But the pressure isn't on us.  With the exception of a few rough edges we've performed well even with an injured squad.  England will be aware they haven't produced a great deal and they've been very lucky. Now the real challenges start for them and they'll be aware their fans,  the english rfu,  the media will be watching to see if they can pull it out of the bag.  Too much pressure.  We're gonna fucking smash them. They'll play better but we'll still smash em.


----------



## starfish (Feb 18, 2012)

I have a horrible feeling that England will spawn another win tomorrow. Theyll cause Wales problems up front, spoil them of possesion & what they get Wales wont capitalise. Charlie Hodgson will get another charge down try.
Then again Wales might spawn another win tomorrow as well. I mean its not as if either team really deserved their two wins so far.
Will probably be a fantastic match then.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 18, 2012)

It's next week not tomorrow.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 18, 2012)

starfish said:


> I have a horrible feeling that England will spawn another win tomorrow. Theyll cause Wales problems up front, spoil them of possesion & what they get Wales wont capitalise. Charlie Hodgson will get another charge down try.
> Then again Wales might spawn another win tomorrow as well. I mean its not as if either team really deserved their two wins so far.
> Will probably be a fantastic match then.


 Oh do fuck off, what games have you been watching? England, lucky as, granted.Wales on the other hand...


----------



## bendeus (Feb 18, 2012)

starfish said:


> I have a horrible feeling that England will spawn another win tomorrow. Theyll cause Wales problems up front, spoil them of possesion & what they get Wales wont capitalise. Charlie Hodgson will get another charge down try.
> Then again Wales might spawn another win tomorrow as well. I mean its not as if either team really deserved their two wins so far.
> Will probably be a fantastic match then.


 
While I agree that England will be a stern test at HQ, I struggle to understand the factual foundation of your assertion that they'll cause us problems up front. Lines out, maybe, but that's a given when you're talking about Wales. I don't really see how a front row containing Cole and Corbisiero is going to trouble past and future Lions, Gethin Jenkins and Adam Jones, TBH, and if the Irish backrow couldn't bother us after two times of trying, I'm not going to start browning my pants about the English one.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 18, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> the pressure isn't on us.


 
This isn't true, mate. All the pressure will be on us, and we don't live well with the favourites tag.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 18, 2012)

Odd fixture list for England - expected to win their two first away matches, and expected to lose their first home match. Don't like that. Pressure's off them, really. Still, Wales _are_ by far the better team. Be gutting to lose.


----------



## elfman (Feb 18, 2012)

Yeh, no pressure on England at all. Everyone is expecting us to lose this one. I think we'll be happy with an improved performance and lose by 7-10 pts. We'll only win if Wales fuck things up.


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 18, 2012)

A Zebo brace again this weekend. 
Hope he gets a call up soon.


----------



## starfish (Feb 19, 2012)

@ 1927. Same games as you. It was just a bit of banter.
@ bendeus. Englands only hope of winning is to spoil possesion. They dont have the backs to threaten. Grind out a win the old fashioned way.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 19, 2012)

bendeus said:


> This isn't true, mate. All the pressure will be on us, and we don't live well with the favourites tag.



What pressure?  This isn't like we're favourites against a quality team.  We're favourites because we'll win easily imo. The pressure of performing well isn't on our shoulders like england imo. Even against Scotland in the second half and under pressure we still played better than anything england have done thus far.  Wales are expected to win.  The real question is how much by.


----------



## badlands (Feb 19, 2012)

I hope England push us close.

Inverdale will get a stiffy and call it as a massive step forward for England. (not his stiffy)

Lancaster gets the job,

and puts English rugby back 10 years


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 19, 2012)

badlands said:


> I hope England push us close.
> 
> Inverdale will get a stiffy and call it as a massive step forward for England. (not his stiffy)
> 
> ...



I hate inverdale.  When england played France last year he kept insisting on calling the match the 'grandslam decider '..... Fair play I lolzed when Ireland beat em on the last day.  Bet he felt a right tits.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 19, 2012)

elfman said:


> Yeh, no pressure on England at all. Everyone is expecting us to lose this one. I think we'll be happy with an improved performance and lose by 7-10 pts. We'll only win if Wales fuck things up.



Yeah and I can't see wales fucking up.  England will throw everything at us.  They'll play much better.  But our compsure,  fitness and backline will turn the thumbscrews second half.  I think the real pressure game will be against France.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 19, 2012)

starfish said:


> @ 1927. Same games as you. It was just a bit of banter.
> @ bendeus. Englands only hope of winning is to spoil possesion. They dont have the backs to threaten. Grind out a win the old fashioned way.


 
Accepted you cant win in the backs.

Problem with the second option is that we may very likley have our Lions front row available next weekend, and ALun Wyn is fit too. It seems that a ground out win may be beyond you too. I feel sorry for Ryan Jones,he has not put a step wrong, has been in contention for MoM in both games, equalled record for Welsh captaincy last week, and may very well find himslef not in 22 next week if eberyone is available. If it was up to me tho he'd be there somewhere and prob on my 15!


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 19, 2012)

bendeus said:


> It less proves that he is xenophobic than the fact that he is barely articulate, and doesnt' know how to use commas.


 
Ironic incorrect use of an apostrophe there, Bendy?


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 19, 2012)

1927 said:


> Accepted you cant win in the backs.
> 
> Problem with the second option is that we may very likley have our Lions front row available next weekend, and ALun Wyn is fit too. It seems that a ground out win may be beyond you too. I feel sorry for Ryan Jones,he has not put a step wrong, has been in contention for MoM in both games, equalled record for Welsh captaincy last week, and may very well find himslef not in 22 next week if eberyone is available. If it was up to me tho he'd be there somewhere and prob on my 15!


 
I'd go with RJ again, AWJ on the bench.  RJ will be required to lend his experience.  What a player he is.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 19, 2012)

starfish said:


> @ 1927. Same games as you. It was just a bit of banter.
> @ bendeus. Englands only hope of winning is to spoil possesion. They dont have the backs to threaten. Grind out a win the old fashioned way.


 
I don't think they have the forwards to play a successful spoiling game either, TBH. We have a far more effective and balanced backrow, and at least parity in the tight.

But yes, they'll look to slow, spoil and contain. Lots of pick and drive, lots of Hodgson trying to pressure 1/2p and Cuthbert with the high ball.

As I look at the permutations, I just can't see where they have the beating of us, which is probably why they'll beat us.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 19, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> What pressure? This isn't like we're favourites against a quality team. We're favourites because we'll win easily imo. The pressure of performing well isn't on our shoulders like england imo. Even against Scotland in the second half and under pressure we still played better than anything england have done thus far. Wales are expected to win. The real question is how much by.


 
The pressure of playing for a triple crown at HQ. The pressure of expectation born of just about everyone thinking it's a shoo-in.

I have _never _known such confidence going in to a game at Twickenham, or such resignation amongst Saes punditry. That's why I'm scared.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 19, 2012)

1927 said:


> Accepted you cant win in the backs.
> 
> Problem with the second option is that we may very likley have our Lions front row available next weekend, and ALun Wyn is fit too. It seems that a ground out win may be beyond you too. I feel sorry for Ryan Jones,he has not put a step wrong, has been in contention for MoM in both games, equalled record for Welsh captaincy last week, and may very well find himslef not in 22 next week if eberyone is available. If it was up to me tho he'd be there somewhere and prob on my 15!


 
Ryan has to start. He's been outstanding. AWJ needs to earn his place, IMO. At the very least he will bench, FFS. He can cover 4, 5, 6 and 8. A veritable Hook of the forwards. I heart RJ


----------



## bendeus (Feb 19, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Ironic incorrect use of an apostrophe there, Bendy?


You know, I've been waiting for someone to spot it. No, it wasn't ironic, and yes, it does make me look something of a plum 

E2A: You been back to CAP yet, IC? I went for the Ulcer game on Friday. Fucking awesome in there. Proper lush!


----------



## bendeus (Feb 19, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> I'd go with RJ again, AWJ on the bench. RJ will be required to lend his experience. What a player he is.


 
This.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 20, 2012)

bendeus said:


> The pressure of playing for a triple crown at HQ. The pressure of expectation born of just about everyone thinking it's a shoo-in.
> 
> I have _never _known such confidence going in to a game at Twickenham, or such resignation amongst Saes punditry. That's why I'm scared.



Did you watch Scrum V?  This issue of confidence and the favourites tag came up.  It was rightly mentioned that the welsh team has changed a great deal and they've are more professional than ever before etc.  I don't doubt the welsh team are confidence but not so much that'll mean they'll balls the game up.  I don't see this as a real pressure game.  If england were playing well yes I could see it but not on this occasion.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 20, 2012)

I think it's an attempt to ward off bad juju, tbh. Even during the matches my mates and I have a sternly enforced unwritten law that you never talk the team or individual performances up too much less you put a hex on them. The more critical the game the more this is a factor.

They don't get much bigger for us than the Saes at HQ, and we never ever beat them by much on the occasions we do manage to best them, so I'm sticking to traditional methods of waiting out the hours before the game.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 20, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I think it's an attempt to ward off bad juju, tbh. Even during the matches my mates and I have a sternly enforced unwritten law that you never talk the team or individual performances up too much less you put a hex on them. The more critical the game the more this is a factor.
> 
> They don't get much bigger for us than the Saes at HQ, and we never ever beat them by much on the occasions we do manage to best them, so I'm sticking to traditional methods of waiting out the hours before the game.



Bah humbug to superstition.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 20, 2012)

Agree with Bendy and IC, for me Ryan has been one of if not the stand out players this season, you just never know how the slection process works in the mind of international coaches!
We have been playing good rugby on and off for a few years, but we do tend to freeze on the big occasion. I think the RWC game against SA was a turning point, we lost narrowly, should have won and with a better mind set would have won. I think that fact hit home to the squad, they now believe they are good enough to beat the best in the world and are less inclined to fuck up when they have the beating of teams. The fact that we are 2-0 having played well for less than an hour bodes well for the rest of the season and is ominous for those who have to play us. Last game away this weekend and the 2 home encounters. The team of the 70s won 3 GS in 8 years,if we do it this year we will equal that record.

Interesting to see JPR in the press over the weekend saying that the team of the 70s could not have lived with the backline we now have, for start they are about 2 stone a man heavier atleast, and in some cases nearer 5stone!!


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 20, 2012)

Interesting stat of the day... Wales have never won the triple crown at Twickenham.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 21, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Interesting stat of the day... Wales have never won the triple crown at Twickenham.


 
Really? wow i'm actually surprised by that. Have the English announced their team yet?

Anyhow Saturday gearing up to be one fucking long day of rugby. Got Super Rugby in the morning with the CHIEFS playing the south island scum.* Some Aussie derby and 6 nations. I'll hardly want to leave the house.

* Gabi your opinion is actually welcome on this topic...


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> While I agree that England will be a stern test at HQ, I struggle to understand the factual foundation of your assertion that they'll cause us problems up front. Lines out, maybe, but that's a given when you're talking about Wales. I don't really see how a front row containing Cole and Corbisiero is going to trouble past and future Lions, Gethin Jenkins and Adam Jones, TBH, and if the Irish backrow couldn't bother us after two times of trying, I'm not going to start browning my pants about the English one.


 
Funnily enough I think England's front row has been one of our more consistant areas over the past year, remember this is essentially the same front row that won the Championship a year ago.  Whilst they are clearly up against a very talented Welsh front row I don't think they will get turned over.  Corbisiero has never let England down (even when we got stuffed in Dublin) and if he had started more games in the World Cup we may have done a lot better, we certainly wouldent have given away so many penalties at the scrum.

To me its clear Wales have have better players in most departments, I don't see that with the front row.  Also like the rest of the England team they are still really quite young and should only get better.

Still going for Wales by 15 though.


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Really? wow i'm actually surprised by that. Have the English announced their team yet?
> 
> Anyhow Saturday gearing up to be one fucking long day of rugby. Got Super Rugby in the morning with the CHIEFS playing the south island scum.* Some Aussie derby and 6 nations. I'll hardly want to leave the house.
> 
> * Gabi your opinion is actually welcome on this topic...


 
Get fucked


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Funnily enough I think England's front row has been one of our more consistant areas over the past year, remember this is essentially the same front row that won the Championship a year ago. Whilst they are clearly up against a very talented Welsh front row I don't think they will get turned over. Corbisiero has never let England down (even when we got stuffed in Dublin) and if he had started more games in the World Cup we may have done a lot better, we certainly wouldent have given away so many penalties at the scrum.
> 
> To me its clear Wales have have better players in most departments, I don't see that with the front row. Also like the rest of the England team they are still really quite young and should only get better.
> 
> Still going for Wales by 15 though.


 
I don't think Wales are going to turn over the England front row, no, and I agree that England are relatively strong in the tight five. Adam and Gethin are better players than C&C, though, for reasons that don't just include the scrum, and I fully expect Lions selection next season to reflect this.

Wales by 15? That's a number that's being bandied about quite a bit at the moment. We probably haven't beaten you by 15 in the last 50 years.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> Get fucked


 
Charming and i wasn't being funny.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I don't think Wales are going to turn over the England front row, no, and I agree that England are relatively strong in the tight five. Adam and Gethin are better players than C&C, though, for reasons that don't just include the scrum, and I fully expect Lions selection next season to reflect this.


 
I quite agree, the Welsh front row are more complete players and certainly offer more with ball in hand and make more succesful tackles.



> Wales by 15? That's a number that's being bandied about quite a bit at the moment. We probably haven't beaten you by 15 in the last 50 years.


 
I know but I can't remember a time in my life where Wales have looked so strong and England so vulnerable.  Wales have to score at least two tries and I can't see England getting over the line, so throw in a few penalties for both sides and you have Wales by 15.  If its less then double figures I'll be reasonably pleased, actually I'd be pleased if we just look start to look like we can score tries that arnt lucky.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 21, 2012)

Anyway one thing going for England is Manu T will straighten the line.

If Wales can cope with the favorites tag I think maybe they win by ten. I don't think anyone can underestimate what pulling on a red shirt does these guys. Bendy's peice in the HEC thread about the regions was excellent but I think as we can see as long as that Red shirt is around the conclusion is wrong.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

Tim Cymru:

1/2p
North 
Jonathan Davies
Roberts
The Priest
Cuthbert
Spikey
Faletau
Warburton
Lydiate
Ian Evans
AWJ
Gethin
Owens
Adam

Bench: The Hibbardotomus, Ryan, Hook, Scott Williams, Tipuric, Lloyd Williams, Paul James

That's getting very, very close to full strength. The only difference would probably be Charteris for Ian Evans, and Rees for Owens.

Ryan benching is tough on the guy, but I can understand them bringing in a stronger presence in the second row in AWJ given the fact that the Saes will probably target that area on Saturday. Otherwise, that is the strongest Welsh team I can remember in my lifetime. No obvious weaknesses. World class in 6 positions, pushing world class in at least three others. If I was the oppo manager, I'm not sure where I'd go about beginning to target that lot, tbh.

Two Lions on what is a very strong bench. Being able to bring on the likes of RJ and Hook, as well as exciting talent like Tipuric and Scott Williams, bodes very well indeed.

England by 3


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Charming and i wasn't being funny.


 

apols flypanam... ive no idea about Super Rugby these days. been in the northern hemisphere too long... even an old school mate who used to play in it but now plays in france has no idea either... its down to the time difference.... it's a quality competition if you're keen enough to wake up in time for it...


----------



## flypanam (Feb 21, 2012)

No worries gabi. Who/who was your team. I've  afew problems with the comp it's lost something with the new format but I loves the comp totally worth getting up for sats.


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

im from wellington so the hurricanes.... altho i used to prefer the style of rugby robbie deans conducted at the crusaders tbh.

my mate used to play for the blues but is currently raking it in france... lucky bastard


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

Just out of interest, and for a bit of a 'look at how our strength in depth is coming on' fun, here's Wales' 'not even in the XXII' XXII

15 Byrne (Clermont)
14 Fussell (Ospreys)
13 Ashley Beck (Ospreys)
12 Henson (Blues)
11 Harry Robinson (Blues)
10 Wellies/Nicky Robinson (Sca/Wasps)
9 Peel/R Rees (Sale/Blues)
8 Delve (Toulon)
7 Martyn Williams (Blues)
6 Andy Powell (Sale)
5 Deiniol Jones (Blues)
4 Ian Gough (Ospreys)
3 Rhys Gill/Duncan Jones (Toulon/Ospreys)
2 Mefin Davies (Ospreys)
1 Eifion Lewis-Robets (Toulon)

6 British Lions and another 4 grand slam winners. Pretty weak on the wings, and at hooker and lock, which is where we're creaking from our injuries at present. I reckon they'd probably give Ireland a decent run for their money, though. heeeerree, fishy fishy fishy


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> im from wellington so the hurricanes.... altho i used to prefer the style of rugby robbie deans conducted at the crusaders tbh.
> 
> my mate used to play for the blues but is currently raking it in france... lucky bastard


 
Hey, why don't you, y'know, set up a thread about it or something!


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Hey, why don't you, y'know, set up a thread about it or something!


 
Eh? My god you're a pillock.

I didn't raise the issue of Super Rugby.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> Eh? My god you're a pillock.
> 
> I didn't raise the issue of Super Rugby.


 
*yawn*

You still here?


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> *yawn*
> 
> You still here?


 
Er, yes


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> Er, yes


 
Why don't you go and post on the Super Rugby thread?


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Why don't you go and post on the Super Rugby thread?


 
I was responding to a poster on this thread my friend


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> I was responding to a poster on this thread my friend


 
Mere details. Think how nice it would be to have a rugby thread of your very own that you could use to boast about the prowess of the SH in rather than having to risk obloquy every time you come here


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Mere details. Think how nice it would be to have a rugby thread of your very own that you could use to boast about the prowess of the SH in rather than having to risk obloquy every time you come here


 
What *are* you on about?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

I was just thinking how lovely it would be for you to have a nice rugby thread all of your own that was relevant to your interests. That's all.


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

I just said that I'm not interested in Super Rugby, dufus - I think you'll find that's flypanam who's into the game downunder


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> I just said that I'm not interested in Super Rugby, dufus - I think you'll find that's flypanam who's into the game downunder


 
No, no. I think you'll find that _you're _missing _my _point. I was suggesting that you _create _a super rugby thread to talk about SH rugby rather than having to bother yourself with us tiresome bores and our second-rate rugby competition on an annual basis. It must be such a drag!


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

Ok, im confused bendeus 

Here's flypanam's post in case you missed it



> Anyhow Saturday gearing up to be one fucking long day of rugby. Got Super Rugby in the morning with the CHIEFS playing the south island scum.* Some Aussie derby and 6 nations. I'll hardly want to leave the house.


 
Not quite sure you've managed to drag some petty personal beef against me into that ^^


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> Ok, im confused bendeus
> 
> Here's flypanam's post in case you missed it
> 
> Not quite sure you've managed to drag some petty personal beef against me into that ^^


 
I saw Flypanam's post. I just can't believe that a chap can offer some friendly advice designed to improve the surfing pleasure of a fellow denizen of the boards, and for it to be met with such a blank wall of incomprehension.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

This is a fantastic article by Moore.



> The Welsh team have entertained their own fans and a wider rugby public, so much so that there has been a virtual beatification of the Warren Gatland regime which is starting to obscure the reality of what has been achieved.
> Wales have indisputably played some of the best rugby of any northern hemisphere side in the past few years, but outside that it is still not much more than the promise of jam tomorrow.
> For all their undoubted talent and panache, if Wales do not win at Twickenham on Saturday it will be an unpalatable fact that in their last nine games they have not beaten a single team with a higher International Rugby Board ranking. The ineluctable conclusion would have to be they are not as good as they and many others think, or that they have a psychological block when it comes to the big occasion; neither of which justifies the plaudits garnered thus far.


 


> What is interesting is the reaction of the Welsh to this assessment [of being favourites]; they do not like it and prefer the position of underdog. This is based, partly, on previous false dawns and early counting of chickens, but it also evinces insecurity. The unwillingness to accept the moniker and deal with it is something they will have to overcome if they have any real ambition of being a great side.


 
E2A: although the top para is not factually correct in terms of our not having beaten one side ranked higher than us in our last nine outings. The sentiment remains accurate, however.


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I saw Flypanam's post. I just can't believe that a chap can offer some friendly advice designed to improve the surfing pleasure of a fellow denizen of the boards, and for it to be met with such a blank wall of incomprehension.


 
Bendeus, can we just agree to just not chat to each other? I think you're a prick, you think I'm a prick, lets leave it at that


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> Bendeus, can we just agree to just not chat to each other? I think you're a prick, you think I'm a prick, lets leave it at that


 
I'm afraid I can't agree to that, Gabi, butt. You're far too entertaining.


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I'm afraid I can't agree to that, Gabi, butt. You're far too entertaining.


 
I wish I could say the same about you my friend. Sadly, though, you're simply a bore - altho in saying that im in no doubt you're a decent enough person in RL


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> I wish I could say the same about you my friend. Sadly, though, you're simply a bore - altho in saying that im in no doubt you're a decent enough person in RL


 
LOL


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 21, 2012)

Neck on the line here.  Wales by 20-25 points.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> I wish I could say the same about you my friend. Sadly, though, you're simply a bore - altho in saying that im in no doubt you're a decent enough person in RL


 
Hardly a bore, but putting that to one side, he does happen to know a fucktoon more about rugby than you could dream of!


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2012)

1927 said:


> Hardly a bore, but putting that to one side, he does happen to know a fucktoon more about rugby than you could dream of!



I never claimed to be an oracle on the game as this guy has. I hope ive also not been a cunt on this thread (or a simpering yes man like your good self)


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> I never claimed to be an oracle on the game as this guy has. I hope ive also not been a cunt on this thread (or a simpering yes man like your good self)


 
Do you honestly think you have nothing to do with the reaction you cause on rugby threads, Gabi?

I'd say my response to you is entirely proportionate; you come on here winding people up by banging on about how brilliant SH rugby is in comparison to the NH game. You slag off our players, our coaches, our club game and our tactics. You sneer at our ability in comparison to the hard pitch nations. Maybe you forget that this is a NH message board populated in the main by NH rygbi supporters. The 6N thread in particular is one that is exclusively about European rugby, if you hadn't noticed.

Now maybe you have absolutely no idea that you're causing this reaction, or maybe you're actually doing a bit of trolling. Who knows.

Anyway, you then act all hurt and surprised when you get a bit of gip, and accuse people of acting like cunts (towards you). Now stop me if I'm wrong but if you're going to go about courting controversy on particular threads over a number of years, you should probably expect to get a bit back. 

I've nothing against you at all, but I do reserve my right to give you a bit of shit when you turn up here, because, let's face it, you dole out plenty yourself in your own inimitable way.

So spare me the faux blubbing, won't you, bro? 

E2A: and where, exactly, did I claim to be an Oracle on anything?


----------



## 1927 (Feb 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> I never claimed to be an oracle on the game as this guy has. I hope ive also not been a cunt on this thread (or a simpering yes man like your good self)


 
Just because I happen to agree with most of what Bendy says doesnt mean I am a simpering yes man, just means we are both right!


----------



## ddraig (Feb 21, 2012)

i've met both bendeus and 1927 and neither of them are a bore
in fact one of them had a really interesting big bogey on the go 
years ago now mind


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

ddraig said:


> i've met both bendeus and 1927 and neither of them are a bore
> in fact one of them had a really interesting big bogey on the go
> years ago now mind



FFS! I thought I had buried that one


----------



## ddraig (Feb 21, 2012)

notice how i didn't specify which one of ya!
you outed yerself there mate


----------



## 1927 (Feb 21, 2012)

ddraig said:


> notice how i didn't specify which one of ya!
> you outed yerself there mate


 
I was thinkimg the same!


----------



## bendeus (Feb 21, 2012)

It was less of a bogey than a once-in-a-century mucal event


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Feb 21, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Neck on the line here. Wales by 20-25 points.


 
That'd be a good haul against Italy at home, way too over optimistic. Wales by 7.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 22, 2012)

Not much interest in the other two games on this weekend I see.  Anyone fancy the Scots to upset the French?  I don't think its impossible, they've looked decent enough in the first two games, if they can just keep 15 on the pitch and not get scared by the try-line then I think they stand a decent chance.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 22, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> That'd be a good haul against Italy at home, way too over optimistic. Wales by 7.


 
This. There's absolutely no chance we'll stick 25 on them. If we win it will be by a score or less, IMO, just like it always is.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 22, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Not much interest in the other two games on this weekend I see. Anyone fancy the Scots to upset the French? I don't think its impossible, they've looked decent enough in the first two games, if they can just keep 15 on the pitch and not get scared by the try-line then I think they stand a decent chance.


 
Hard to tell, isn't it? St. Andre's Frogs are a bit of an unknown quantity given the fact that they've only been tested at home against probably the worst Italian side I've seen for quite a few years.

Who knows which French side will turn up


----------



## elfman (Feb 22, 2012)

I was going to make a statement about me having a feeling Scotland will cause an upset against France, but going on my past record, I will state publicly that an upset is impossible


----------



## bendeus (Feb 22, 2012)

elfman said:


> I was going to make a statement about me having a feeling Scotland will cause an upset against France, but going on my past record, I will state publicly that an upset is impossible


 
How much are England going to win by, Elfman?


----------



## flypanam (Feb 22, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Hard to tell, isn't it? St. Andre's Frogs are a bit of an unknown quantity given the fact that they've only been tested at home against probably the worst Italian side I've seen for quite a few years.
> 
> Who knows which French side will turn up


 
The one that has not played in two weeks. The French always seem to start poorly but momentum carries them through, the scots may make this very close probably by lose by less than 5.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 22, 2012)

Kidney has stuck with the same team that went to Paris. Earls at 13 and Useless at 12. Given that we may get some kind of parity in the scrum, our locks are better and overall our backrow better than theirs we may win by ten.

However Lansdowne Rd at 1.30 on Sat ain't gonna worry the Italians a bit...

eta: Still they haven't beaten us since 1997.


----------



## The Octagon (Feb 22, 2012)

bendeus said:


> How much are England going to win by, Elfman?


 
See, this is what you guys are desperate for, all the English supporters are playing England down and Wales up, managing our expectations in the face of a probable defeat.......and you fucking hate it 

You want arrogant, swaggering posters bigging up the Lancaster Bombers (TM, just in case), so you can piss yourselves laughing when you turn us over at our home ground.

We won't give you the satisfaction


----------



## bendeus (Feb 22, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> See, this is what you guys are desperate for, all the English supporters are playing England down and Wales up, managing our expectations in the face of a probable defeat.......and you fucking hate it
> 
> You want arrogant, swaggering posters bigging up the Lancaster Bombers (TM, just in case), so you can piss yourselves laughing when you turn us over at our home ground.
> 
> We won't give you the satisfaction


 
Well, _most _of you won't 







In fairness, my above comment is more to do with Elfman's wildly inaccurate predictions during the WC. Like the anti-Paul the Octopus, he ensured the defeat of every single side that went through to the knockout stages by predicting them to win. I was more hoping he'd do Wales the same favour this weekend


----------



## flypanam (Feb 22, 2012)

I liked that, just cos of the picture of Lol. What a wanker!


----------



## bendeus (Feb 22, 2012)

flypanam said:
			
		

> Kidney has stuck with the same team that went to Paris. Earls at 13 and Useless at 12. Given that we may get some kind of parity in the scrum, our locks are better and overall our backrow better than theirs we may win by ten.
> 
> However Lansdowne Rd at 1.30 on Sat ain't gonna worry the Italians a bit...
> 
> eta: Still they haven't beaten us since 1997.


 
BTW, Flypanam, what do you think of this?



> Kidney’s initial selection for the training camp makes very little sense. There are a few very good players conspicuous by their absence. Paul Marshall is the player that springs immediately to mind. He has, arguably, been the best Irish scrum half this season and yet he was neither named in the main squad nor was he even given an opportunity with the Wolfhounds. It smacks of injustice that a player, quite possible the best player currently eligible for Ireland in that position, is so callously overlooked. Another notable name left out of the initial squad was Ian Humphreys who, after his recent good form in the Heineken Cup and Pro 12, should be fuming to have been ommitted.


 


> Kidney’s refusal to play the game with a balanced back row is worrying. It is no coincidence that the best teams are those who play the game with the right type of player in each position in the back row. Ireland fly in the face of this logic and are playing two blindside flankers and a number eight in their back row. This does not work. We do not win enough ball at the breakdown because we do not have the players with the natural skill at stealing the ball. Promoting Peter O’Mahony from the bench to the number seven jersey would be the logical thing to do


 


> The best option we have to play 13 is Tommy Bowe. He was being run in the position at training over Christmas in Carton House so we know that he has some experience playing there in this regime. Couple this with his actually playing centre for the Ospreys on a number of occasions and a favourable picture emerges of our best candidate. He naturally has the size now required to be an international centre, at 6ft 3in and 15st 3lbs, he rivals the likes of Aurelien Rougerie, one of the best centres in world rugby. Bowe also has the natural skill set required to play in the centre, just look at the try he set up for Rory Best against Wales


 


> Mr Kiss is a very competent defence coach; in fact his tutelage was the basis for the Grand Slam win (although Ireland were helped in winning the Grand Slam by the referee’s interpretations of the breakdown at the time which favoured defences in general). He is not, however, a backs coach. He has been tasked with the job of two men. In the professional era, this is an appalling oversight. One man cannot teach an international rugby team how to attack and defend. It won’t work, and based on the evidence of last Sunday week we can see that it isn’t working.


 


> We have all the raw materials to come through this downward cycle but the tree must be shaken and heads will probably have to roll. Mr Kidney will have to go if he cannot turn it around big time before the end of this latest attempt at the Six Nations crown. We need to find a truly innovative backs coach, somebody of the calibre of Joe Schmidt. We need to open our eyes to the importance of the stereotypical number seven and we need to start playing players in their rightful position even if it means that we can’t play Stephen Ferris and Sean O’Brien at the same time. We must change our mindset so we can finally become the force we can be. And we need to start looking to the World Cup in 2015 now before it is too late.


 


> *Preferred Match day 22*
> 
> Starters: Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, O’Connell(c), Ferris, O’Mahony, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, McFadden, Bowe, Trimble, Kearney. Replacements: Cronin, Wilkinson, O’Callaghan, O’Brien, Reddan, O’Gara, Zebo.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 22, 2012)

Looks and reads like David Kelly or even Quinlan, as they've been the two banging on about Marshall all season. I think it's a fair assessment. If we start with Les Kiss it is a shambles that he and Mark Tainton are taking on the attacking role, the simple solution would have been to drop Joe schmidt in there to take over gaffney's role. I dont think it would have solved the problems our backs are having but it would have freshened things up. I suspect Kidney gave it to Les as he was all too aware of how Gatland was shafted. I think the major problem is the absence of Drico. Not having him around would hurt any team.

I agree that Marshall should get a place but on the bench, I'm not fond of him but Murray must get time to prove himself. The Tommy solution at 13 is weak and a poor call. Both you and I have pointed out that TB is off his game, and a player off his game on the wing is not going to find it at international level. If the writer was keeping with his arguement then he would call O'Malley in at 13 and have Mcfadden/Fitzgerald at 12.

I doff my cap to you B on the issue of the backrow. You've pointed out the weakness before though I'm not convinced that O'Mahony is the answer a. he can play accross the back row b. he's yet to play an international yet. Personally I'd like to see Dominic Ryan in a seven. The plan fact we have a shortage of specialists at openside.The Ferris/Obrien conundrum is something which is starting to annoy. We've two very good blindsides. I'm in favour of starting with Ferris and ending with Obrien. A while ago Kidney mused about playing Ferris at 4.

There are other things that should be brought up like our lack of cover at 1 and 3. Wilkinson ain't the answer but who is? How do we accomodate Kearney 2.0? The final problem is out outhalf do we bring in Keatley or that seriously talented young Leinster guy whos below Madigan?

The main thing is that yes for the Irish team there has to be a change of thinking, nothing to profound, but one striking enough to seek to freshen up a fairly stale team and atmosphere around the team.

eta: I've just read the bit about Humpreys. No. No. Never will he play for Ireland he's just not good enough.

Have you been reading the Belfast Telegraph?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 22, 2012)

flypanam said:


> eta: I've just read the bit about Humpreys. No. No. Never will he play for Ireland he's just not good enough.
> 
> Have you been reading the Belfast Telegraph?


 
LOL. No, not at all. I just quoted the article I linked to. I don't rate Humphreys too highly. Flakey and shit in defence (where have I said that before).

Saw him vs. the Blues at CAP last Friday and he was ok provided his pack were looking after him. The minute they were on the back foot, however.....


----------



## flypanam (Feb 22, 2012)

Watched it  

Seemed a good crowd.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 22, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Watched it
> 
> Seemed a good crowd.



It was. I'm due a post on the general rugby thread to discuss Welsh regional rugby at some point. Massive, massive change happening here right now. The return to CAP is just one element of the upheaval.


----------



## The Boy (Feb 22, 2012)

France squad for Scotland:

15 Maxime Médard, 14 Vincent Clerc, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Julien Malzieu, 10 François Trinh-Duc, 9 Morgan Parra, 8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Imanol Harinordoquy, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (capt), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Jean-Baptiste Poux.
*Replacements:* 16 William Servat, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Lionel Nallet, 19 Julien Bonnaire, 20 Julien Dupuy, 21 Lionel Beauxis, 22 Maxime Mermoz.


----------



## elfman (Feb 23, 2012)

bendeus said:


> How much are England going to win by, Elfman?


 
I already predicted a Wales win by 7-10 pts


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 23, 2012)

Not surprised to see Dickson and Morgan start, I'm not surprised to see Tuilagi in to try and counter the phisicality of the Welsh backs.  I am a bit surprised they've gone for Parling over Palmer, it makes the pack still look very inexperienced.

*England team to face Wales: *
15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints),
14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints),
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers),
12 Brad Barritt (Saracens),
11 David Strettle (Saracens);
10 Owen Farrell (Saracens),
9 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints).

1 Alex Corbisiero (London Irish),
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints),
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers),
4 Mouritz Botha (Saracens),
5 Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers),
6 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers),
7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt),
8 Ben Morgan (Scarlets)


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 23, 2012)

1 

 Urban75   112





 2 

 Cleckheaton   75





 3 

 all the good ones are tak   69





 4 

 Read Fiction   45





 5 

 SteroidAbuse   39





 6 

 Bendys Bois 
0


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm gutted for RJ. But I can see the wisdom of it all. What a player to see stepping off of the bench. You'd grow a foot as a Welsh player.  In height I mean.  Fnaar!  Farrell at 10...interesting.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 23, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Farrell at 10...interesting.


 
Its clearly the long term view of the current coaches, I can see him being targeted but you only gain experience in playing games like this so hey ho.


----------



## starfish (Feb 23, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Not much interest in the other two games on this weekend I see. Anyone fancy the Scots to upset the French? I don't think its impossible, they've looked decent enough in the first two games, if they can just keep 15 on the pitch and not get scared by the try-line then I think they stand a decent chance.


 
I live in hope.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 23, 2012)

starfish said:


> I live in hope.


 
Well, Scotland _have _created more tries in open play than England this 6N, after all.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 23, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Its clearly the long term view of the current coaches, I can see him being targeted but you only gain experience in playing games like this so hey ho.


 
Genuine question: so far I've seen a kid who is good at kicking, is pretty decent at spotting and executing a pass and has reasonable (though far from stellar) defence. He also seems to have the right kind of temperament. Do you feel he is destined for great things? I don't see enough of the AP to make a call, really, but as usual certain portions of the the Saes meeja are already hanging the office in jizz bunting in preparation for his coming.

As an England fan do you think he could be the long-term 10 you've been looking for?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 23, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> I'm gutted for RJ. But I can see the wisdom of it all. What a player to see stepping off of the bench. You'd grow a foot as a Welsh player. In height I mean. Fnaar! Farrell at 10...interesting.


 
Hook out, which is a shame, but yeah, a fully fit and firing RJ as a bench option shows how far we've come.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 23, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> 1
> 
> Urban75 112
> 
> ...


 
I knew that my choice of Mirco Bergamasco at 9 might be a gamble I'd live to regret


----------



## bendeus (Feb 23, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Not surprised to see Dickson and Morgan start, I'm not surprised to see Tuilagi in to try and counter the phisicality of the Welsh backs. I am a bit surprised they've gone for Parling over Palmer, it makes the pack still look very inexperienced.
> 
> *England team to face Wales: *
> 15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints),
> ...


 
This is the best XV he could have picked, IMO. Parling picked to really challenge our lineout, no?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 23, 2012)

Foreigner count:

Samoan: 1
Saffa: 2
Kiwi: 1
Welsh: 1


----------



## elfman (Feb 24, 2012)

Surprised Lawes isn't starting and Farrell is at 10 but lets see how it goes.

Who's Welsh btw? Morgan could of played for Wales but was born in Bristol if I'm not mistaken...


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 24, 2012)

I like the balance of the English set-up, and assuming Flood is fit (or even if he isn't), I get the feeling that the Lancaster Bomber (wanton breach of copyright) always wanted Farrell at 10. Can't fault his temperament thus far. With Tuilagi back, it's given the boss man a chance to tinker in a positive way. I'm looking forward to the midfield battle.

Moore's thinking is genuinely correct. If Wales don't make the next step mentally, they can never be great. Gats has consistently ensured that we play against teams with a reason to want to beat us by dropping sneaky little bombs at press conferences, and I think this has been part of the master-plan of toughening the attitude of his charges to the point of losing fear of the favourites tag. When favourites at the RWC, Wales produced. Think Samoa and Fiji. That was a stellar leap on the way to changing his team's outlook. Handling Scotland was another - they came at Wales in a very Scottish way, and despite being under the cosh, Wales handled it. This weekend will hopefully be no different, attitude-wise. Wales have just got to perform well in defence and execute their counters well. Fitness might well be the edge in terms of execution and looking after a narrow lead.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 24, 2012)

elfman said:


> Surprised Lawes isn't starting and Farrell is at 10 but lets see how it goes.
> 
> Who's Welsh btw? Morgan could of played for Wales but was born in Bristol if I'm not mistaken...



Does one of these help?


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 24, 2012)

bendeus said:


> This is the best XV he could have picked, IMO. Parling picked to really challenge our lineout, no?


 
tbf the England line out has hardly been impressive in itself, Italy certainly managed to steal more then their fare share.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 24, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Foreigner count:
> 
> Samoan: 1
> Saffa: 2
> ...


 
How many of your lot were born in Wales? 

I know you're only ribbing, but there is an element of this sort of humour that I feel uncomfortable about.  Nationality is a weird thing and consists of a lot more then where you were born. 

I know a guy who was born and educated in South Africa but both his parents were British and he has lived in Britain since he was 18 (20 years ago), he finds the concept of nationality quite confusing and a bit upsetting becuase when he is in the UK he's a saffa, but when he's in SA he gets called a Brit.  Its like he has no nationality and not allowed one.


----------



## gabi (Feb 24, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> I know a guy who was born and educated in South Africa but both his parents were British and he has lived in Britain since he was 18 (20 years ago), he finds the concept of nationality quite confusing and a bit upsetting becuase when he is in the UK he's a saffa, but when he's in SA he gets called a Brit. Its like he has no nationality and not allowed one.


 
I get this too. It's an odd sensation, being nationless. Have been in the UK since I was 19, grew up in a combination of oz and nz, but will never be fully accepted by any of them. I feel more British than any of the three, but it's still odd.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 24, 2012)

Thats why despite what the state says nationality is a much more fluid concept than we are often taught. Still laugh at mates who call the London Irish plastic. They ain't imo they're Irish if they want to be, if not thats okay too.

Anway back to the main topic, that is as a good an English side as they could hope to put out. Been reading alot about ALex Corb (born in New York btw. Slipping bendy?) I don't think he'll stand up to the welsh at all.

Italians have dropped Canale and Catro is out. We'll survive, i just hope that a. that the show is a good one and that people that paid cash to go to the game, get some value. b. That our defence stops the passive slide defence and that we actually put some pressure on the italians. c. No injuries, just beacuse when the Scots, English and Welsh are bored and thinking about having a wank, we'll be playing France.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 24, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Anway back to the main topic, that is as a good an English side as they could hope to put out. Been reading alot about ALex Corb (born in New York btw. Slipping bendy?) I don't think he'll stand up to the welsh at all.


 
Nah he accused him of being a american / italian before the last world cup despite the fact he moved to England when he was 4 and his mother is English.

On the rugby side of things I couldnt disagree with you more, I mentioned earlier in the thread that he has never let England down in the scrum. He played in all of the last six nations games and played well, he was one of the few to come out of the Irish mauling with reputation intact. He misses the odd tackle and doesnt offer much with the ball in hand (yet, he's still really young) but he wont let England down. The front row, or even the pack in general are not going to be the problem for us.

Anyway Matt Stevens is the alternative and he was absolute liability at loose head in the World Cup.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 24, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Genuine question: so far I've seen a kid who is good at kicking, is pretty decent at spotting and executing a pass and has reasonable (though far from stellar) defence. He also seems to have the right kind of temperament. Do you feel he is destined for great things? I don't see enough of the AP to make a call, really, but as usual certain portions of the the Saes meeja are already hanging the office in jizz bunting in preparation for his coming.
> 
> As an England fan do you think he could be the long-term 10 you've been looking for?


 
I missed this earlier.

I guess the dull answer is 'I don't know'.  I havent seen enough of him to say yet, is he currently better then Flood?  Probably not, but behind him there isnt much else at the moment. 

I think the coaches like his calmness, he seems to be mentally quite tough as he's pinged some very important kicks for sarries.  I havent seen anything so far to suggest he's going to unlock defences, but if we're being honest for the last 15 years the job of an England number 10 is to either boot it downfield or get rid of it as soon as possible.

Flood should probably be playing but hey, if you don't give the guy the chance you'll never know.  I expect virtually every Welsh attack to be targetted at him, thereby dragging Barritt and Tuilagi infield before switching the play out wide where our wingers will be isolated.  Therefore I'm going to confidently suggest that the Welsh tries will be scored by Halfpenny or the wingers.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 24, 2012)

God I'm getting nervous now.  Got to love this shit.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 24, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> How many of your lot were born in Wales?
> 
> I know you're only ribbing, but there is an element of this sort of humour that I feel uncomfortable about. Nationality is a weird thing and consists of a lot more then where you were born.
> 
> I know a guy who was born and educated in South Africa but both his parents were British and he has lived in Britain since he was 18 (20 years ago), he finds the concept of nationality quite confusing and a bit upsetting becuase when he is in the UK he's a saffa, but when he's in SA he gets called a Brit. Its like he has no nationality and not allowed one.


 

I'm partially ribbing.

I remain very uncomfortable with the idea that adult rugby players from other nations can get a game for the country whose player base dwarfs that of all its home nations competitors combined. I'm more uncomfortable with the idea that the likes of Ricky Flutey, and, potentially, Botha, Barritt, and, yes, I'll say it, Tuilagi (that's BeastofSamoa Tuilagi, should you wish to translate his forename, whose brothers all play for Samoa,) have a tilt at the British and Irish Lions.

I'm concerned that a player who says this,



> His circuitous route to the top was an enforced consequence of being denied opportunities at home. *‘I was told that I’d never make it as a rugby player in South Africa,’*he said.* ‘At 105kg (16st 7lb), I was too light to succeed in the second row at the Stormers* (the Cape Town-based Super 15 franchise).’


 
....was able to 'choose' to be an England international. I'm concerned that a player like Ricky Flutey, a Kiwi, should end up playing for the Lions, and then fuck off for the big payday in France as soon as he gets back. Clue: he doesn't give a fuck about England or GB, and his Maori relatives are probably pissing themselves that he managed to represent both.

Why do England, with their aforementioned massive player base, have to poach players from the PIs and SH nations in order to compete? Why, furthermore, do they poach second-rate journeymen (Vainikolo springs to mind) to do that?

To try and compare that against English-born Welsh players such as North and JD, both of whom have a Welsh parent, who have lived in Wales for the majority of their lives, and who are products of the Welsh academy system is disengenuous, and comparing apples and oranges. Equally, doing the same with the likes of Faletau, who has lived in Wales since he was 4, and who, again, is a product of the Welsh academy system, is unfair.

I'm very happy that Ben Morgan is starting tomorrow's game in a white shirt. He's a great player, while arguably being a product of Welsh rugby, but, FFS, he's English, mun! Had he played for us, it would have been for the simple expedient that he saw greater opportunity as a 'Welshman' than an Englishman, and for me that is not the basis for choosing your international team. He played coy until such a moment as he realised he was never going to displace Faletau as first choice, and then went for the red rose. Good for him, and all that, but you have to ask why the fuck he felt the need to play coy in the first place.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 24, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Thats why despite what the state says nationality is a much more fluid concept than we are often taught. Still laugh at mates who call the London Irish plastic. They ain't imo they're Irish if they want to be, if not thats okay too.
> 
> Anway back to the main topic, that is as a good an English side as they could hope to put out. Been reading alot about ALex Corb (born in New York btw. Slipping bendy?) I don't think he'll stand up to the welsh at all.
> 
> Italians have dropped Canale and Catro is out. We'll survive, i just hope that a. that the show is a good one and that people that paid cash to go to the game, get some value. b. That our defence stops the passive slide defence and that we actually put some pressure on the italians. c. No injuries, just beacuse when the Scots, English and Welsh are bored and thinking about having a wank, we'll be playing France.


 
How 'fluid' do you want to make it? Leprechaun wig and beard? Ability to drink Guinness? To me, what England are doing now, and yes, yes, what Wales did under Graham Henry  is a bit too fucking fluid for comfort, and the point at which 'International' sides become 'club invitation' sides full of badge kissers and mercenaries.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 24, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> God I'm getting nervous now. Got to love this shit.


 
It's fine, they'll beat us. Nothing to worry about.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 24, 2012)

gabi said:


> I get this too. It's an odd sensation, being nationless. Have been in the UK since I was 19, grew up in a combination of oz and nz, but will never be fully accepted by any of them. I feel more British than any of the three, but it's still odd.


 
Are you Ricky Flutey?


----------



## The Boy (Feb 24, 2012)

England by 5
Scotland by 10
Italy by 2

You heard it here first.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 24, 2012)

The Boy said:


> England by 5
> Scotland by 10
> Italy by 2
> 
> You heard it here first.


 
Stick some money on it. You could be rich.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2012)

oh dear! 






i got it from here


> *I Loves The 'Diff* ‏ @*ILovesTheDiff*
> Today's Western Mail front page is bonkers - more 2000AD than Gren. Looking good,@*jamiehuwroberts*and@*adamjones3*!!pic.twitter.com/pxUTMjBc


----------



## flypanam (Feb 25, 2012)

^^^
Brilliant 

Bendy the problem is not so much that mercenaries declare for England, but that the premiership is a poor league more concerned with money and winning than development hence few international quality English born players coming through, so the suits will take anyone. Tho the Manu situation was cynical.

Also Doran Jones was born in Dublin. But he clearly feels English so I've no problem him choosing england. Though I'd have a massive problem if some London born Irish player was prevented choosing Ireland by some false promises from the RFU/Clubs.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 25, 2012)

ddraig said:


> oh dear!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
It's just  and  all at the same time.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 25, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Bendy the problem is not so much that mercenaries declare for England, but that the premiership is a poor league more concerned with money and winning than development hence few international quality English born players coming through, so the suits will take anyone. Tho the Manu situation was cynical.


 
Totally agree with this. The AP attracts these individuals, who suddenly get international opportunities they would never have had in their home countries. If I was an England fan, I'd feel pretty 'meh' when you get a journeyman like Mouritz Botha plainly stating that he came to England precisely because their own national side didn't think he'd cut it at the top level, in much the same way that Flutey would never have pulled on the black shirt. It can't be good for the English game.



> Also Doran Jones was born in Dublin. But he clearly feels English so I've no problem him choosing england.


 
And this. I have no issue with a player who feels affinity with a nation playing for that nation, based on parentage or long-term residency, for example. What I object to is the residency rule allowing people who clearly have no sense of belonging to pull on a national shirt, and as a result become a B&I Lion. It devalues both.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 25, 2012)

flypanam said:


> ^^^
> Brilliant
> 
> Bendy the problem is not so much that mercenaries declare for England, but that the premiership is a poor league more concerned with money and winning than development hence few international quality English born players coming through, so the suits will take anyone. Tho the Manu situation was cynical.


 
It's sad really, as the English youth are either first or second in the world most of the time.  Smashed us last night.  There's talent in buckets by the looks of it.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm bricking it, but loving it.  Today holds marvellous potential.  It could all go tits, but the potential is amazing.  What a buzz.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 25, 2012)

Predictions then? 
Ireland by 17 points. 
Wales by 20
Surprise of the weekend will be Scotland by 5 points.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

there's more than one match this weekend?


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 25, 2012)

DOH


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

nope, there's definitely only one match


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 25, 2012)

this is fucking dire stuff from ireland.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 25, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> this is fucking dire stuff from ireland.


 
True, but Italy are playing well.

eta: Sexton wha? You watching RTE? I bet Hook is in the midst of constipation face.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 25, 2012)

yeah, rte web. they came alive a bit at the end there.
sexton's kicking won't be able to save them if they keep this up though. france will demolish us at this rate and even england could have a go.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2012)

ACE! 
go on the Celtic Cousins


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 25, 2012)

they redeemed themselves in the second half. go on! 
but the first is a real worry. do that against france and we could be 30 points down going into the second half.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

grrrrr


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

woo  leigh


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

solid defence


----------



## Dandred (Feb 25, 2012)

Anyone got a stream for the England Wales match?


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

<3


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

Dandred said:


> Anyone got a stream for the England Wales match?


 
iplayer


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 25, 2012)

Me thinks England will be fucking nackered by the second half..... well i hope so anyways.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 25, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> iplayer


 
Not in the UK......

Found one but Italian commentary


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

the crowd being wrong all the time is really fucking confusing


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2012)

oh this is bit bollocks so far
too much hype *worries


----------



## Espresso (Feb 25, 2012)

This is a far better match than I thought it would be. I fully expected Wales to completely batter Enland from the off and I'd be so bored by the mismatch that I'd go off and do something else. But no, it's pretty even and a proper scrap.
Excellent.


----------



## twentythreedom (Feb 25, 2012)

good game. some right massive scary dudes there!! all mangled ears and blood


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 25, 2012)

http://veetle.com/index.php/channel/view#4f47ad5cb2f3a

you might need to download veetle. quality is just about watchable on a laptop.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 25, 2012)

England impressive first half. Welsh decision making very poor. Tuilagi doing damage. Roberts a very big loss for the second half. You baking up your humble pie, GD?


----------



## flypanam (Feb 25, 2012)

Cracking game. Ref might not be the be the best (its walsh) but good to see he's not imposing himself too much. Charge down!


----------



## gosub (Feb 25, 2012)




----------



## Perroquet (Feb 25, 2012)

yellow! that's a bit much.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

sorry, but how the fuck was that a yellow?


----------



## Corax (Feb 25, 2012)

Haven't watched any rugby for quite a few years, but it's certainly changed since I was playing.  Sin binned for an offside?  What lunacy is this?!?


----------



## Dandred (Feb 25, 2012)

Corax said:


> Haven't watched any rugby for quite a few years, but it's certainly changed since I was playing. Sin binned for an offside? What lunacy is this?!?


 
I don't get it either


----------



## bendeus (Feb 25, 2012)

Priestland killing us here.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

bye colin


----------



## felixthecat (Feb 25, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> bye colin


 
Lad did good *approves*


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2012)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrgggh


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

fair on the yellows then?


----------



## Corax (Feb 25, 2012)

Five minutes to go - one last push.  Come _on_ Wales!!!


----------



## gosub (Feb 25, 2012)




----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)




----------



## Corax (Feb 25, 2012)

w00t!!!

WTF has happened to rugby by the way?  Is diving over the top okay now?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2012)

woooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Dandred (Feb 25, 2012)

WALES WALES!! CYMRU


----------



## felixthecat (Feb 25, 2012)

I've fucking LOVED this game - whatever the result ends up as.

A proper game of rugby at last.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2012)

NO TRY!!


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Feb 25, 2012)

Oooh - this is a bit exciting!!! (I say no try tbh)


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

OFF THE FUCKING GROUND


----------



## Espresso (Feb 25, 2012)

I don't think that'll get given


----------



## felixthecat (Feb 25, 2012)

ddraig said:


> NO TRY!!


  Agreed


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Feb 25, 2012)

Well done Wales, good match!


----------



## Espresso (Feb 25, 2012)

Now that was a game of rugby. What a cracker!


----------



## Corax (Feb 25, 2012)

Even if it hit the ground, there was no pressure applied to the ball so no try.  Unless they've changed that as well.


----------



## fen_boy (Feb 25, 2012)

That was a try.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

closest match i've ever seen


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> That was a try.


 
apparently not


----------



## fen_boy (Feb 25, 2012)

Assuming England would have got the conversion then a draw would have been a fair result. Shame it was decided with a poor decision.


----------



## Balbi (Feb 25, 2012)

Great game. What Lancaster was thinking taking off the excellent Dickson and putting on the utterly useless Ben Youngs. Youngs takes a step or two off the back before he passes, slowing it down, he runs across his own line (which led to the confusion and the Wales breakaway try)

The minute Youngs came on, we lost our coherence.

Well done Wales, you're bob on for it now.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> Shame it was decided with a poor decision.


 
sorry?


----------



## fen_boy (Feb 25, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> sorry?



The no try decision was wrong


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> The no try decision was wrong


 
bollocks


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 25, 2012)

I thought there was sufficient evidence to give it.


----------



## fen_boy (Feb 25, 2012)

Much as I'd like to continue this intellectual debate, I'm off to cook dinner and sulk.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

we've been denied clearer ones than that this season.


----------



## Balbi (Feb 25, 2012)

We had it as doubtful, so err on no. Fair enough, England threw the lead away with silly mistakes and Wales were relentless.


----------



## past caring (Feb 25, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> I thought there was sufficient evidence to give it.


 
Yer off your rocker, chum - even if the ball crossed the line, there was no downward pressure.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 25, 2012)

£120 up 

what a fucking game !!!


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 25, 2012)

Lucky i got tickets for that granslam thing on the 17th March init


----------



## gosub (Feb 25, 2012)

not sure we'll beat france on the back of that performance


----------



## flypanam (Feb 25, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> I thought there was sufficient evidence to give it.


 
Sorry even the ref was dubious about the try that is why he asked 'Try or no try' to the video ref. If he and the the assistants thought there was evidence he would have asked 'Is there any reason...'


----------



## bendeus (Feb 25, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> I thought there was sufficient evidence to give it.


 
What evidence is that, then?


----------



## 1927 (Feb 25, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> I thought there was sufficient evidence to give it.


 
There was no evidence at all to give it. None of the camera angles showed the ball on the deck.


----------



## Pingu (Feb 25, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> I thought there was sufficient evidence to give it.


 unfourtunately for england your thoghts dont really count 

a draw imo would have eben a fairer result .. but then who said life was fair?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 25, 2012)

England learned from the Jocks. Push legality to the limit at the breakdown, put pressure on the halfbacks and force errors. Phillips did the best he could under very difficult circumstances, but The Priest got the yips bigtime. Poor, poor decision making time and time again.

Walsh missed so much infringement by the Saes. Unbelievable at times. The breakdown was a lottery again, but this time we had Sam

The difference between the two sides today was up front. Our backrow was immense. Warburton put in a fucking titanic performance with his tackling and breakdown work, Faletau broke the gainline time after time, setting up quick ruck ball on every occasion, Lydiate again gave the perfect unsung six performance, taking down the ball carrier behind the gainline and disrupting continuity. That backrow has the perfect balance, IMO. We're very lucky to have them, and so very, very young.

Gethin, well, Gethin was Gethin. I fucking laugh in the face of those pundits who think anybody, but anybody, else should start for the Lions in 2013. He remains the most complete loosehead prop in the world, and the benchmark against which all others should be compared. Adam also fantastic. To see Wales comprehensively dismantle the Saes scrum at HQ was quite a sight, and one that I don't recall ever having seen before.

BTW, thought North was a phenomenon again, just not a scoring one this time.

For England I thought Farrell looked the business. Great decision making, great varying of his game, defensively astute. He's one of those players who looks like he has time on his hands, and that bodes well for England's fulcrum. Tuilagi was immense in the first half, but faded badly in the second. Also thought that Botha, who I realise I have just called a journeyman, showed up very strongly.

Funny to hear England's side being talked up at the end as some bunch of babes in arms who have just become men. Were the pundits not aware of the age of this Welsh side. We're going to get 12-odd years out of some of these boys. A wonderful thought


----------



## remedial_gash (Feb 25, 2012)

It's completely disingenuous to complain about the strettle decision - Walsh was heard to say "I thought held up"  but he went up stairs. England were fantastic today, to pull ahead 3-0 after the first twenty was epic. Wales weren't great and the vatican had a mare but England were tough as fuck. 

Having said that....

A draw was NOT a fair result, you win games by taking chances, and Wales did so, probably for the first time in an age, they won ugly and won whilst playing poorly.

I predicted a loss by 9 points on another site, and I'm glad it didn't happen.
Gash
x


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2012)

Great result for Wales today. There's nothing finer than beating England, and it's even better when it's in their own back yard.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 25, 2012)

Lions XXII after (halfway through) round 2. Based on form.

Kearney
North
Tuilagi
Roberts
Bowe
Farrell
Spikey
Warbs
Faletau
Ferris/Lydiate (too close to call, this one)
POC
Grey
Adam
Best
Gethin

Bench (based on versatility/form/expediency): 1/2p, Ryan, Ford, Hook, Stevens, Murray, AN Other


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> The no try decision was wrong


The video evidence was rightly deemed inconclusive so it was _absolutely correct_ that the try should not be awarded. That's the rules and the ref was correct.


----------



## articul8 (Feb 25, 2012)

Unless you're Welsh everyone on this thread is a twat


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 25, 2012)

Dr





bendeus said:


> Lions XXII after (halfway through) round 2. Based on form.
> 
> Kearney
> North
> ...


 drop Roberts for J D. Marvellous. What an incredibly tight game. Coronary. Pissed. Marvellous. Curry. Sweet.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2012)

some pics from Huw Evans agency
http://www.welshrugbypics.co.uk/events/3222-england-v-wales-250212


----------



## Corax (Feb 25, 2012)

articul8 said:


> Unless you're Welsh everyone on this thread is a twat


I'm half English, half Scottish, and I was cheering for Wales.  The Rob Andrew kick everything era put me off the England rugby team for life.

Also - there was no downward pressure.  No try was the correct decision.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 25, 2012)

i'm english


----------



## badlands (Feb 25, 2012)

Lancaster looks uncannily like the bloke from Brittas Empire


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 25, 2012)

bendeus said:


> England impressive first half. Welsh decision making very poor. Tuilagi doing damage. Roberts a very big loss for the second half. You baking up your humble pie, GD?




Never even went and bought the ingredients for that pie.  OK... England tactically were excellent.  Shut us down and their defence was exceptional.  I knew wales would win but to be fair it went down to the wire and my heart can't take games like that.  Preistland was shite I thought.  The amount of ball he didn't get into touch was shocking.  I knew england would be better just not that much better.  They'll beat Ireland I reckon if Ireland play like they did first half against Italy.  Anyway my stand out players were warbie,  Gethin and I thought mike philips was good too.  George North is amazing.  What is he gonna be like when he's at his peak?  The mind boggles.


----------



## trampie (Feb 25, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> The no try decision was wrong


The no try decision was correct, there was no way that was a try from any video angle, the tmo could not give any other verdict, i would have said the same the other way around .​


----------



## trampie (Feb 25, 2012)

Wales didnt play well today but a win is a win, Halfpenny, Toby, Warburton and North all had good games, in hindsight the lightly raced Alun Wyn should not have started infront of the inform Ryan Jones and Priestland who can be flaky on the field at the best of times had a mare, but well done Wales.


----------



## trampie (Feb 25, 2012)

England played close to 100% considering their stage of development and how they played in their first two matches. Wales were poor on the day and only performed at 60% or 70%, but it was good enough to get the win. ​


----------



## Pingu (Feb 25, 2012)

i was impressed today with how the english coped. OK so they had little pressure on them to win but they caame out and gave a good game. The slow ball was as irritating as fuck but it worked for them


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 25, 2012)

1 

 Urban75   131





 2 

 Cleckheaton   114





 3 

 all the good ones are tak   89





 4 

 Read Fiction   56





 5 

 SteroidAbuse   37





 6 

 Bendys Bois   0


----------



## bendeus (Feb 26, 2012)

Scotland have now created more tries in open play in two games than England have managed in three.


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> 1
> 
> Urban75 131
> 
> ...


I don't know what that means but I like seeing us in #1.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 26, 2012)

Epic hangover.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 26, 2012)

Credit to Lancaster.  I think his selection choices raised a few eyebrows but paid off.  He was also very humble in defeat and I liked what he said about games not being lost on one decision (referring to the tmo decision)...he has my respect now.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 26, 2012)

A jazz bar in sketty this morning.


----------



## elfman (Feb 26, 2012)

Only just got around to watching this. Good game! Although it was slightly spoilt by someone on fbook making a comment that England can't score tries (making me more or less no we wouldn't score in the match) 

Massive improvement from England but it feels like there's lot more to come. Great defence by both sides and overall I thought it was a very equal game.

Don't know why so many changes were made for England. I think that seemed to kill us a bit. Especially Youngs coming on...

Thought it was a try at the end, but hey ho. A performance is worth taking knowing that we can build on it and have a good chance to win one of the next 2 games.


----------



## elfman (Feb 26, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Lions XXII after (halfway through) round 2. Based on form.
> 
> Kearney
> North
> ...


 
I think that's pretty fair at the moment. Not sure about Hook on the bench though. I'd rather have J Davies and Sexton (filling the extra gap).


----------



## Badgers (Feb 26, 2012)

WE WOZ ROBBED 

Did not catch enough of this game to have much opinion but I can say with 100% certainty England were robbed.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 26, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't know what that means but I like seeing us in #1.


 
thats me, not sure who the others are, we are all here... it's a mini league or some shit.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> WE WOZ ROBBED
> 
> Did not catch enough of this game to have much opinion but I can say with 100% certainty England were robbed.



In what way? It looked inconclusive to me.  The tmo thought so too.  One decision alone doesn't mean england were robbed ffs.


----------



## tarannau (Feb 26, 2012)

Tight game, good ending. In some ways I'd like an inconclusive result to favour the attacking side as a general rule mind.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 26, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> In what way? It looked inconclusive to me. The tmo thought so too. One decision alone doesn't mean england were robbed ffs.


 
There was an element of irony in my post. Perhaps I should have added a


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 26, 2012)

i thought it was interesting that, on such a young england side, it was the more experienced guys making the crucial errors and poor decisions.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 26, 2012)

Are Wales going to jam another lucky Grand Slam?


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 26, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Are Wales going to jam another lucky Grand Slam?


 
no, but they might do it by sheer hard work.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 26, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Are Wales going to jam another lucky Grand Slam?



*yawn*


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Are Wales going to jam another lucky Grand Slam?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 26, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Are Wales going to jam another lucky Grand Slam?


 
Possibly. We try to ensure there aren't half-century gaps between ours.

Do you think it is possible for a slam to be both lucky _and _immoral?


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 26, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Do you think it is possible for a slam to be both lucky _and _immoral?


 
yes, if it's somehow gifted to you by france's absence during the nazi occupation, obviously.


----------



## Perroquet (Feb 26, 2012)

scotland ahead and looking calm.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 26, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> yes, if it's somehow gifted to you by france's absence during the nazi occupation, obviously.


 
Quoi? I thought they were suspended during WW1 and WW2?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 26, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> scotland ahead and looking calm.


 
Impressed again by Denton. Hogg also bringing a whole new dimension to Jock attacking play. Laidlaw a bit of an O'Gara defensively.

Decently poised game so far.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 26, 2012)

Great try Scotland.

Can I also belatedly add this...

YEEEEEEEEESSSSSS! GET THE FUCK IN THERE WALES. TRIPLE CROWN, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!


----------



## Espresso (Feb 26, 2012)

This is another great match. We're being spoiled this weekend


----------



## Red Faction (Feb 26, 2012)

didnt think this game would be worth watching
find it very hard to get excited by scotland normally- but fair play to them
this is entertaining stuff

reckon they can get a last minute touchdown
but will it be for nothing- a la david strettle?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 26, 2012)

Fucking shower of numpties!!!!!!!!!! Scotland should have won that!


----------



## starfish (Feb 26, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> Fucking shower of numpties!!!!!!!!!! Scotland should have won that!


 
I have to agree. Had enough chances to have won all 3 games so far. Just too many individual errors at the wrong moments. Young Hogg looks a fantastic prospect for the future though. As do Rennie, Gray & Denton. We might have a decent team in a few years time.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 26, 2012)

What let you down was the lack of support. Where were the players running lines when the likes of Hogg, Denton or Blair broke through? They ended up isolated and the moves broke down.

That's a coaching issue.

Some very tidy players you've got there, though. Your backrow was excellent, as were your locks.

Hogg looks the real deal, I agree. 

All of that must feel like very cold comfort right now, though. There are players in that Scottish side who really don't deserve to be going into a wooden spoon decider with Italy, which increasingly looks like what will happen. It really, really reminds me of Wales in the dark years. Plenty of huff and puff, plenty of endeavour, some very decent players, but never being able to make it all come together when it matters.


----------



## The Boy (Feb 26, 2012)

The Boy said:


> England by 5
> Scotland by 10
> Italy by 2
> 
> You heard it here first.


 
Just on my way now to the bookies to collect my winnings.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 26, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Just on my way now to the bookies to collect my winnings.


 


On the weekend that Elfman got it absolutely, impeccably spot on. It's the end times!


----------



## The Boy (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched the highlights and I'm obviously knackered - just spent about 5 minutes trying to figure out how the Scottish player wasn't offside for the turnover that led to the second try  @ self.

Anyway, win is a win and all that.  Listening on the radio I got the impression that France always had an extra couple of gears if needed.  Also get the impression those extra gears will be very much needed in the next three weeks (assuming they are indeed there).


----------



## ddraig (Feb 26, 2012)

and Western Mail front page for tomorrow


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 27, 2012)

Jiffy made me chuckle on Scrum V last night when he described walking into the corporate box of Lawrence D (after the welsh match and it was full of englishmen) as one of the best feelings in the world.


----------



## elfman (Feb 27, 2012)

bendeus said:


> What let you down was the lack of support. Where were the players running lines when the likes of Hogg, Denton or Blair broke through? They ended up isolated and the moves broke down.
> 
> That's a coaching issue.
> 
> ...


 
Yeh, totally agree with the comparison of Wales a few years ago. Only just watched the 1st half of this game so far on torrent, but Hogg looks brilliant.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 27, 2012)

So I quite enjoyed the weekend's rugby.  I thought the England v Wales game was a good match to watch as it was close and it could have gone either way.  England played better then I expected but the whole game just seemed a bit 'bosh' and I'm not sure if this is a great thing for either team.  For what its worth I thought Strettle grounded the ball but I'm not going to get to bothered by it because it would have been a really tricky kick for Flood who had only just got on the pitch so I have no problem with the end result.

I was in a busy pub and couldent really hear the commentary by why was Priestland sin-binned?  I couldnt even see a penalty there.  Also who is the shitter ref out of Wayne Barnes or Steve Walsh?  I thought they were both dreadful.

Scotland should have won again, it seems to be as much mental for them as anything.  I think Wales should take the grand slam and a deserved one it will be, but I was quite pleased with how England went about their business and we can start looking forward to the next few years.


----------



## gabi (Feb 27, 2012)

Reffing aint easy. I actually think Walsh did a decent job for a change in that game on the weekend. This doesn't alter the fact that I also think he's also a self-regarding cunt of the highest order. The girl I watched the game with who doesnt follow rugby actually remarked that he looked in better shape and was playin to the cameras more than any of the players 

Of the two. Well. I'm surprised Barnes is still reffing at highest level. Do they have an elite panel, a la cricket.. and if so, what criteria is used to get on that panel? Both Walsh and Barnes have made such massive fuckups in the past I can't believe they're still there.


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 28, 2012)

So who thinks Lancaster should get the job?  Or does anyone think it should go to the other frontrunner mallet?


----------



## elfman (Feb 28, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> So who thinks Lancaster should get the job? Or does anyone think it should go to the other frontrunner mallet?


Too hard to answer after only 3 games.


----------



## gabi (Feb 28, 2012)

I think he should. He's done a great job in a very short time.

Not sure why you'd bring in someone like Nick Mallet and disrupt things again. But then again... It's England. So they probably will


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 28, 2012)

Bendeus (or anyone else)  in the dying minutes of the welsh game england were playing with an advantage.  When the strettle try was inconclusive why didn't the ref go back to the penalty?  As I understand they can't go back to a scrum but they could've gone back to the penalty? Is there some sort of reffing discretion??  I ask cause I read strettle stating he thought Barnes should've come back for the penalty. I think the penalty was for wales collapsing the scrum iirc?


----------



## gabi (Feb 28, 2012)

Wasn't Walsh reffing that one?


----------



## The Octagon (Feb 28, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Bendeus (or anyone else) in the dying minutes of the welsh game england were playing with an advantage. When the strettle try was inconclusive why didn't the ref go back to the penalty? As I understand they can't go back to a scrum but they could've gone back to the penalty? Is there some sort of reffing discretion?? I ask cause I read strettle stating he thought Barnes should've come back for the penalty. I think the penalty was for wales collapsing the scrum iirc?


 
This confused me too, I didn't think the try could be awarded (and agree that the kick was not a certainty), but thought play should have been brought back.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 28, 2012)

I think that you can't go back for a penalty if the incident took place after the full 80 has elapsed.
eta:
By Walsh's usual standards which are pretty low he had a good game, he didn't interfer over much with the game and unlike in last years super rugby comp he didn't make up his own rules during a game.

To answer gabi's question, yeap, they have a elite panel of refs who are all under the guidence of one Paddy O'Brien who was a decent ref in his day.

Anyhow I'm pretty dissapointed with Ireland's win. Good we won but the manner of it was poor. The scrum half issue just won't go away. Murray was ponderous and indecisive two cardinal sins for a scrum half. He also took two steps before releasing the ball. Sexton is obviously uncomfortable with him inside him and seems to be standing alot deeper than he does for Leinster. Sexton improved with Reddan. I know Kidney will probably want to start with Murray as he is more physical than Reddan this weekend but we can't afford to start as poorly as we did against Italy and Wales.

Second point for us is why does out main go to ball carriers like Ferris and O'Brien insist on standing in the first receiver position. It's madness no one makes yards ina congested area. Please one of you and heaslip go wide.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 28, 2012)

You can go back if the penalty was conceded after 80, otherwise teams would just infirnge once 80 was up. Ref probably didnt as England, having crossed the line all beit not grounded the ball, they had pretty much had as much advantage as they were ever likely to have!


----------



## Grandma Death (Feb 28, 2012)

But the penalty advantage was given before the 80 wasn't it?  For collapsing of the scrum?


----------



## flypanam (Feb 28, 2012)

From the IRB website...

'time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been
completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes
dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an
option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick
at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a
mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.'


----------



## gabi (Feb 28, 2012)

Regardless, there's no way england's kicker (i think farrell had gone off?) would've nailed the conversion..


----------



## Infidel Castro (Feb 28, 2012)

It's all academic now. I wouldn't have quibbled with a draw to be fair, but the feller Lancaster was magnanimous about the whole thing. My hope is that our guys are the same in similar circumstances. The reffing decision is final and everyone gets on with it. Until Robo-ref arrives, we're stuck with what we've got. I reckon two refs on the pitch might help the breakdown and the scrum though.


----------



## starfish (Feb 28, 2012)

I think Walsh just forgot about the penalty advantage, got caught up in the moment with the TV ref although he did ask if time was up when Strettle crossed the line. Barnes appeared to do the same in the Scotland game, or maybe he was just stretching his arm out a bit & mumbling menalty padmantage instead, as we knocked on a few phases later & he gave the French the put in at the scrum.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 28, 2012)

gabi said:


> Reffing aint easy. I actually think Walsh did a decent job for a change in that game on the weekend. This doesn't alter the fact that I also think he's also a self-regarding cunt of the highest order. The girl I watched the game with who doesnt follow rugby actually remarked that he looked in better shape and was playin to the cameras more than any of the players
> 
> Of the two. Well. I'm surprised Barnes is still reffing at highest level. Do they have an elite panel, a la cricket.. and if so, what criteria is used to get on that panel? Both Walsh and Barnes have made such massive fuckups in the past I can't believe they're still there.


 
Walsh made some poor calls in the England-Wales game, but I've seen worse reffing performances, tbh. Poite in the Wal-Sco game was abysmal. Walsh is very much a self-regarding cunt of the highest order, though. Don't know if you've ever seen his tattoo:






I think the issue with rugby reffing is that it is harder than anything else reffing. The complexities of the laws, the ease with which players can deliberately infringe, the impossibility of being able to adjudicate the scrum or the breakdown, the dependency the game has on interpretation - all mitigate against the ref in in RU.

Lucky, really, that rugby fans aren't in the habit of issuing death threats when refs fuck u...............oh.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 28, 2012)

As far as the advantage thingy goes, well, I'm not sure. I was certainly expecting him to bring it back for the penalty after Strettle's near miss, and I was under the impression that you can carry on playing penalty and advantage provided the ball is kept in play (scrum, tap) rather than going to a lineout, for example.

However, how much more advantage can you play than giving a player the opportunity to cross the whitewash? The fact that Strettle did, but couldn't ground it should theoretically mean that as much advantage as was needed had been given, so Walsh need not have called it back.

Either that or Rugby laws are a potluck lottery that nobody truly understands or knows how to interpret


----------



## starfish (Feb 28, 2012)

"The referee is always right even when he's wrong". Was what i was always told when i played all the way from minis up to senior rugby.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 28, 2012)

gabi said:


> Regardless, there's no way england's kicker (i think farrell had gone off?) would've nailed the conversion..


 
It's unlikely, yes, but not impossible.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 28, 2012)

starfish said:


> "The referee is always right even when he's wrong". Was what i was always told when i played all the way from minis up to senior rugby.


 
"Yes, sir, right away, sir!"


----------



## bendeus (Feb 28, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Please one of you and heaslip go wide.


 
C'mon. Heaslip is _always _hanging out in the wing position.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 28, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Walsh made some poor calls in the England-Wales game, but I've seen worse reffing performances, tbh. Poite in the Wal-Sco game was abysmal. Walsh is very much a self-regarding cunt of the highest order, though. Don't know if you've ever seen his tattoo:


No way.

I think Walsh is a bad ref, but at least he lets the game run. I hate refs who kill the game.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 28, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> For what its worth I thought Strettle grounded the ball but I'm not going to get to bothered by it because it would have been a really tricky kick for Flood who had only just got on the pitch so I have no problem with the end result.


 
Funny how few people have thought to mention the phenomenal defensive effort by both 1/2p and Gogzilla to prevent (or cast sufficient doubt upon) what seemed to be a certain try. Have a look a the replays; 1/2p quite literally puts his body on the line.



> I was in a busy pub and couldent really hear the commentary by why was Priestland sin-binned


 
Standing about a yard offside when he tackled Corbisiero. Guess it was in the red zone, so you should expect this, but one point to make was the fact that Botha was out of play (tackled) when he popped it up to him. Should have been penalty to Wales. Ironically, Priestland's intervention probably wouldn't have made a difference; Corbisiero lost if forward without his help.



> Also who is the shitter ref out of Wayne Barnes or Steve Walsh? I thought they were both dreadful.



Walsh every time. I think Barnes is 98% a decent referee. Unfortunately for him, when he fucks up he fucks up big style. Walsh is, however, more consistently shit, and as already mentioned, has a fucking ego to boot.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 28, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> No way.
> 
> I think Walsh is a bad ref, but at least he lets the game run. I hate refs who kill the game.


 
No way that's a bad tattoo, or no way is Poite worse?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 29, 2012)

bendeus said:


> No way that's a bad tattoo, or no way is Poite worse?


No way has he that tattooed on his arm. I don't mind Poite as a ref.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 29, 2012)

bendeus said:


> C'mon. Heaslip is _always _hanging out in the wing position.


 
These days he's always hanging out.

Anyway this weekends French team...

*France (v Ireland):* Poitrenaud; Clerc, Rougerie, Fofana, Malzieu; Trinh-Duc, Parra; Poux, Szarzewski, Mas; Maestri, Pape; Dusautoir (capt), Bonnaire, Harinordoquy.
*Replacements:* Debaty, Servat, Nallet, Picamoles, Dupuy, Beauxis, Mermoz, Attoub

Hoping that their lineout misfires again.


----------



## The Boy (Feb 29, 2012)

flypanam said:


> These days he's always hanging out.
> 
> Anyway this weekends French team...
> 
> ...


Was on my way here to post that.  Can't understand why Szar is getting another chance.  If he's best back-up we have to Servat then we really are in trouble next year.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 29, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Was on my way here to post that. Can't understand why Szar is getting another chance. If he's best back-up we have to Servat then we really are in trouble next year.


 
A couple of years ago a commentator on RTE made some quip about French hookers and paying punters can't remember what it was. Was one of those 'He didn't say that...' a bit like Paul Wallace and the Belgrano on Sky.

Should be a good game the battle of the backrows should be interesting, both seem to lack balance, heavy on ball carriers, light on ground hogs.

Pretty worried about Clerc though, his scoring record against us is most annoying. The preperation of the forward pack is a worry too as Smal has had to leg it back to SA. Leaving Axel Foley in charge of the forwards, this could be good as the scrum looked creaky until the second half against Italy .The Munster maul has been pretty good this year. We'll probably see it in use more often on Sunday.


I've a horrible feeling Kidney will start with Murray though so we might not get a chance to maul.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 29, 2012)

Ireland (v France): R Kearney, T Bowe, K Earls, G D’Arcy, A Trimble, J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross; D O’Callaghan, P O’Connell (capt); S Ferris, S O’Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacements: S Cronin, T Court, D Ryan, P O’Mahony, E Reddan, R O’Gara, F McFadden.

Oh well. Would like to have seen Ryan and O'Mahony in. I do think they will come on at the 50 minute mark. However judging by our starts we may lose this one 10+.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 29, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> No way has he that tattooed on his arm. I don't mind Poite as a ref.


 
In spite of his cowardice during the second Lions test? Poite is a weak referee, IMO. He appears to be willing to duck the big calls, and to be coached by players as to when to blow for penalties and what sanctions to impose when he does.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 29, 2012)

flypanam said:


> I've a horrible feeling Kidney will start with Murray though so we might not get a chance to maul.


 
I was just thinking today about the parallels between Gatland and Kidney.

1) Come from a successful club at which they have won HECs with an idiosyncratic style of play (blitz defence/muhnnerball)
2) Win GS in their first season in charge by bringing those tactics to the international arena, and by inspiring a new attitude and commitment from players
3) Fail to follow up with anything meaningful. Lots of uninspiring/clueless performances and failure to live up to expectations.
4) Accusations of sticking with favourites (Ryan Jones/DOC) rather than bringing in new blood and picking on merit
5) Accusations of choosing and sticking with the wrong backroom staff (Howley/Kiss)
6) Accusations of being tactically one-track; having no 'plan b'.
7) Slow drift from being media darling to being openly questioned by both pundit and fan alike.
8) No real discernible gameplan

Now what happens next is interesting. Gatland, of course, is starting to turn things round. Wales were competitive at the world cup, Gats' faith in youth and fitness to execute his 'one track' gameplan pays off, his coaches begin to look like they know what they're doing, and the media gets back on side. Results continue to follow. Gatland has, of course, had a year longer than Kidney to get things right; this time last year I, for one, was calling at least for the heads of his backroom staff, and possibly even his due to the continued subpar performances.

Is this evidence that coaches need to be given time to make things work, and that we're probably all too hasty to judge when we need to accept the facts of rebuilding, embedding tactics, and instilling an esprit de corps, or is Gatland just fucking lucky that he has such a fantastic crop of young talent coming through to complement the world class talent we already had in some positions? Could it be that Deccie will turn it round in the same way in his own sweet time?


----------



## bendeus (Feb 29, 2012)

This is very interesting:




			
				Sam Warburton said:
			
		

> .....
> we will never forget how low we felt that October night in Auckland.​​I was sent off in that match for a tip-tackle on Vincent Clerc. Midway through the second-half at Twickenham I was taken out in a line-out, when I saw some five feet in the air, and landed on the floor with a crash. It was my opposite number, Chris Robshaw, who had touched me while I was airborne, but the referee satisfied himself with awarding a penalty and not showing a card.​​I thought that was the right decision because there was no intent involved, but is there any difference between a tip tackle and tilting someone who is a long way in the air at a line-out? When I was on the floor, some of the boys were saying that I should milk it to prompt the referee into giving something more than a penalty, but I got to my feet straight away.​​​The landing hurt – it was a long way down – but *I remember how Clerc had writhed around in the semi-final after my tackle, trying to influence the referee, and how unimpressed I had been at that. I was not going to play the hypocrite or act like a footballer* and I was delighted to swap shirts with Chris afterwards. I thought he had an excellent game: people say he is not a specialist seven, but he hurt us at the breakdown and he seemed to be everywhere on the pitch.​


Strong words for Palme D'Or winner, Vincent Clerc, there......

He's a good boy, is Sam


----------



## gabi (Feb 29, 2012)

Totally undermining the 'grace' he showed after the game in auckland when he said he deserved a red. Not such a good lad it seems. Sad to see.


----------



## 1927 (Feb 29, 2012)

gabi said:


> Totally undermining the 'grace' he showed after the game in auckland when he said he deserved a red. Not such a good lad it seems. Sad to see.


 
Sam has never said anything other than that he desreved a red, i dont understand your post! Mind you that is nothing unusual.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 29, 2012)

1927 said:


> Sam has never said anything other than that he desreved a red, i dont understand your post! Mind you that is nothing unusual.



This. Miss d'Point strikes again.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 1, 2012)

Welsh lads have a great St David's Day.

Bendy I'll get back to your point on Gatland/Kidney when i'm on lunch.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 2, 2012)

All those points are good, B, however they can pretty much be applied to any international manager. The problems lie in the specifics.

The frustrations is that the whole defence/attack coach role has been fudged. Kiss, ain't to blame for that. Kidney is. In any international sport bumbling issues is more harmful than anything else. It creates a malaise which leads back to bumbling eg O'Brien at 7. It doen't work. But we'll stick with it anyway. 

We've a good team, a different younger team to the GS winners and its a team that has lost intensity. Lost its ability to play heads up rugby/play how you see it. 

We were always gonna have problems when Drico when he was injured/retired (after the lions tour if he makes it.)

I do think Kidney is edging towards the team he wants for 2015. I'd just like to see him be more ruthless and in doing so bring younger hungrier players into the team. Like Gatland did .


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 2, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Funny how few people have thought to mention the phenomenal defensive effort by both 1/2p and Gogzilla to prevent (or cast sufficient doubt upon) what seemed to be a certain try. Have a look a the replays; 1/2p quite literally puts his body on the line.


 
Actually you make an excellent point, it was fine defending.  That being said I can't help feeling it would have been a try had it been Tuilagi not Strettle.

Anyway onto this weekend, I'm going to get behind Ireland because I'm sick of the French and all their rubbish.  I also think this French side are there for the taking, they've looked less than impressive in both of the opening two matches so I fancy Ireland to nick it.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 2, 2012)

really disappointed that reddan isn't starting after the way he got everyone moving last week. makes no sense to me.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 2, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> really disappointed that reddan isn't starting after the way he got everyone moving last week. makes no sense to me.


 
Word.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 4, 2012)

i hate to say it and would love to be proved wrong, but france to win by 10+.

c'mon ireland!!!!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm optimistic(for now)


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

C'mon Ireland! Frogs poor with and without the ball so far


----------



## Red Faction (Mar 4, 2012)

Wow!
Tommy Bowe- what just happenned there!??!


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 4, 2012)

waits for France to wake up


----------



## Red Faction (Mar 4, 2012)

Wow!
Tommy Bowe- what just happenned there!??!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)

Still optimistic


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

Bowe! He's looking like a lions test starter to me


----------



## ddraig (Mar 4, 2012)

come one Ireland!


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 4, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Bowe! He's looking like a lions test starter to me


 
he was so calm in that second try. i was expecting him to rush into the ball and knock it on, but he took his time. brilliant. 
he's putting serious pressure on their passing, making them doubt themselves. 
murray looking a bit too hesitant for my liking. hope they bring on reddan soon. 

they could still throw it all away though.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)

Bit less optimistic


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

Kearney is a fucking wonderful player.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)

Just made stupid mistakes, great defense in the second half, Wales must fancy their chances against France now.


----------



## The Boy (Mar 4, 2012)

An overall sense of 'meh' around this whole 6N.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

The Boy said:


> An overall sense of 'meh' around this whole 6N.


 
Fucking speak for yourself!

'Non-vintage', 'immoral', 'meh'. I'll take the lot if it ends up with our third GS in 7 years, tbh.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)

The Boy said:


> An overall sense of 'meh' around this whole 6N.


The HC is where it's at now.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

BTW, I now don't reckon France are all that. It took the Ireland game to confirm what I was starting to suspect: that the underperformance of French sides over the last few years is not solely down to Mad Marc, and that in fact they're just not that good. Great pack, great scrum half, but not much outside from what I can see, especially compared to French sides of yesteryear. 

St Andre appears to be coaching a side that looks very much like the one Lievrement did, IMO.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> The HC is where it's at now.


 
Lulz


----------



## The Boy (Mar 4, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Fucking speak for yourself!


 
I was


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 4, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> The HC is where it's at now.


 
nonsense. only hc semi-finals or finals can really be compared to european test rugby. 

ireland have a lot to be proud of today, but it still feels like they threw it away in the second half. 
when the rain started hammering down france were far better at keeping ball in hand and staying on their feet.

agree that france just aren't all that anymore. i reckon wales can take them.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 4, 2012)

and yes, kearney was fantastic in the air and on the run. 
that take in the air from harinordoquy in the second half seemed to defy all logic.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> nonsense. only hc semi-finals or finals can really be compared to european test rugby.


 
And even then, an HEC semi or final can't, IMO, be compared to a 'slam decider. But maybe that's just me.




> ireland have a lot to be proud of today, but it still feels like they threw it away in the second half.
> when the rain started hammering down france were far better at keeping ball in hand and staying on their feet.


 
Ireland were very good, yes, but a couple of headless moments, particularly around the French try, undermined a very solid effort. Kearney was out of sight. Again. I've never seen him play better rugby than he has been over the last few weeks. He was, however, with the possible exception of Tommy Bowe, head and shoulders above any other member of that Irish backline. Murray was laboured, Earls and D'Arcy didn't really do much to trouble the midfield defence, Trimble continues to work hard to justify my view that he simply isn't international standard, and Sexton, while impressive defensively, hardly set the world alight. Monster effort up front, and aside from the scrums lost because Pearson wasn't aware that you can't just start fucking pushing whenever the hell you feel like it, they fronted up well to a very powerful French pack.

Was particularly impressed by the linespeed in defence that saw the Frog ball carrier swarmed and smashed behind the gainline time and time again in the first half. It was, dare I say it, positively Welsh in its execution

All a bit of a curate's egg though, really. Can't quite work out where this Irish side is going. At times in the first half they reminded me of the irresistible force they were in the final game in Dublin of last year's championship, at other times they looked laboured and shorn of ideas. It was Kearney who, time and time again, gave them the impetus at these points. Without him they most definitely would have lost, IMO.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 4, 2012)

bendeus said:


> And even then, an HEC semi or final can't, IMO, be compared to a 'slam decider. But maybe that's just me.


 
oh, i dunno. last year's final was pretty fucking exciting, but then i'm a leinster fan.


----------



## Red Faction (Mar 4, 2012)

Very disappointed.  Feel we committed suicide by penalties over and over again.
An still struggling with some Kidney decisions though.  
Surely Trimble has done more than enough to play himself out of contention for the jersey?
Should O'Gara has done more than enough to prove he can score last minute drop goals, close out games and use tactical kicking to put real pressure on the opposition?  I accept I am entirely Munster-biased, but does anyone else think he should have been brought on much earlier into the second half?
Hope Connor Murray will be alright- but I felt he should have been coming off around that point anyway.

People talk about "Which France team will turn up?", but can't help feel we blow hot and cold so often enough to undermine any sort of consistency. 


Without being entirely disrespectful to France- great players and all, but we threw that game away.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 4, 2012)

Draws stink.

Re today's game, I wish that - for once - O'Connell would be magnanimous when not on the victorious team.  Ireland never get beat: other teams just score more points than them*.  Or in this case, the same amount of points.  It gets tiring to hear that the only reason Ireland ever fail to win is because of themselves.  Bores the shit out of me.

If the Lions toured tomorrow, Kearney would be a shoo-in.    With North on the wing, it's be a battle royale between Bowe and 'Penny.  Both very different players.  Loving the fact Bowe is supposedly having a shit tournie form-wise, yet can run in 4 tries.  Quality player.

(* - I have to admit to stealing this from a book on my bookshelf.  Bendy might know it.  And it was originally about Wales).


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Draws stink.
> 
> Re today's game, I wish that - for once - O'Connell would be magnanimous when not on the victorious team. Ireland never get beat: other teams just score more points than them*. Or in this case, the same amount of points. It gets tiring to hear that the only reason Ireland ever fail to win is because of themselves. Bores the shit out of me.
> 
> ...


 
Someone like Healey, Dawson or Johnno. Deffo a member of the mighty England of the late 90s/early 00s, IMO.

Good point well made, though. St Paul is a fucking dreaful loser (or in this case, draw-er)

E2A: One of my mates suggested that, given both Ireland and now England 'beat themselves' rather than 'got beaten by' Wales, according to some, the championship table should have a new column inserted. Something like this:

*        P   W   D   L   BT*   PTS*
England 3    2    0   0    _1  _    6
Ireland  3    1    0   0    _2_      4


----------



## Espresso (Mar 4, 2012)

O'Connell is a charmless git and an utter oik, though. Always has been. He severely lacks the social finesse and basic cop on of most who get given the captain's armband.  I know that anyone who plays for his national team in anything must be passionate about it and want to batter the other lot senseless. But most of the rest of them who get let loose in front of the telly to talk do seem to know that you have to wear the mask and pay tribute to the other team.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)

> He severely lacks the social finesse and basic cop on of most who get given the captain's armband


 What, like Martin Johnson?

I'm completely not arsed that he doesn't give good interviews.



> Re today's game, I wish that - for once - O'Connell would be magnanimous when not on the victorious team


We did throw it away today, too many silly errors, knock ons etc - what did you want him to say, that france played well?


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 4, 2012)

How about a draw being a fair result the way France came back. They should have won at the end. Ireland were well under the fish.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> How about a draw being a fair result the way France came back. They should have won at the end. Ireland were well under the fish.


He did say that. wtf does under the fish mean?.


----------



## Espresso (Mar 4, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> What, like Martin Johnson?
> 
> I'm completely not arsed that he doesn't give good interviews.


 
You don't really need me to define the word "most", do you?
Good.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> He did say that. wtf does under the fish mean?.


 
I think IC may have been posting on a predictive texting phone. 'cosh' has the same letters, no?

Anyways, I'm going to start using 'under the fish' from now on. Far more amusing


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

John Beattie reckons that Ireland are a bunch of neck-grabbing, offside living, wrong-side-flopping, tackled-player-not-releasing, ref-whinging cheats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/johnbeattie/2012/03/how_will_scotland_cope_with_th.html

Don't sit on the fence now, John! Whatever gave you that idea about honest Paul's troops and their unquestionable integrity?

E2A: In seriousness, I thought that the constant gobbing to the ref today was appalling, and should have no place on the rugby pitch. Try and tell me that this is not a cultural thing. If it ain't POC whinging, it's BOD (when playing) or any number of their lieutenants


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)




----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)

For a streetwise team we give up an awful lot of stupid penalties


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 4, 2012)

Under the fish indeed. Got to love this new phone. Ha!


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 4, 2012)

Bendy lad, that reference was from a book called Nobody Beats Us. The phrase I used was something a Kiwi said about Wales. I'm not too sure the author saw the irony in what he quoted.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> For a streetwise team we give up an awful lot of stupid penalties


 
Yes, but never in the red zone , and, of course, you still hold the honour of having the lowest yellow card to penalties awarded ratio in world rugby. It's because of your honesty and integrity.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Bendy lad, that reference was from a book called Nobody Beats Us. The phrase I used was something a Kiwi said about Wales. I'm not too sure the author saw the irony in what he quoted.


 
Graham Mourie, Google tells me. I'm sure that one of the Saes I listed used it fairly recently. Got to have been Healey, really.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 4, 2012)

I've got to say Cian Healy was lucky to not get a yellow today


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I've got to say Cian Healy was lucky to not get a yellow today


 
Pearson was dreadful today. He missed loads of French crossing, and early shoves at the scrum. He also missed loads of Irish sealing off and going over the top. The Healy decision was poor, though, yes.


----------



## Grandma Death (Mar 4, 2012)

Hats off the the irish defensively in that last ten minutes were outstanding I thought. They leaked what I thought was an easy try second half and spunked a pretty good lead. Its no good talking about how good they were first half-they have to maintain that pressure and the way France were playing they couldve done that. Healy shouldve got a yellow-that was despicable in my books. WTF why did the ref go to the TMO for that second half french try??

Now then. If we put twenty points on Italy that should give us a comfortable points margin to win the championship should we lose to france. However given that France seem to be playing a good half and a bad half in this tourny-in front of a home crowd...with a full squad...that slams looking more likely. 

What are the views on this years tourny so far? Immoral? Vintage?


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Hats off the the irish defensively in that last ten minutes were outstanding I thought. They leaked what I thought was an easy try second half and spunked a pretty good lead. Its no good talking about how good they were first half-they have to maintain that pressure and the way France were playing they couldve done that. Healy shouldve got a yellow-that was despicable in my books. WTF why did the ref go to the TMO for that second half french try??
> 
> Now then. If we put twenty points on Italy that should give us a comfortable points margin to win the championship should we lose to france. However given that France seem to be playing a good half and a bad half in this tourny-in front of a home crowd...with a full squad...that slams looking more likely.
> 
> What are the views on this years tourny so far? Immoral? Vintage?


 
I'm astonished that people are moaning about it. I'd say that in terms of quality and intensity this championship has served up a load of great games:

Wales-Ireland
Wales-England
Wales-Scotland
Scotland-France
France-Ireland

That's basically all but one game not involving Italy. I'd also say that of those games that did involve Italy, one half of rugby in each were quality for a number of reasons, and worth a watch (1st against Frogs, 1st against Saes, 1st against Irish). I reckon that's a pretty high return for a 6N, which for all its passion and grandeur frequently fails to deliver as a spectator's tournament.

Now obviously when the dust settles it will be dismissed as immoral and non-vintage, but this has been a great 6N, with loads of intrigue and banging physicality on display.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 5, 2012)

It's a fucking amazing 6N. So much better than the fayre thrown up last year.

As for yesterday i'm pretty pissed off. Apart from Bowe's opportunistic tries our backline was pretty shite. I had no idea Darse or Earls (sole contribution was missing a fly hack) were playing as they contributed nothing and I'm starting to wonder if the downward spiral of Sexton's game is due to the fact that he has no confidence in those outside him. Sorry to keep banging on about this but Les Kiss is a great defensive coach but he's no ones idea of an attack coach except for Kidney.

Kearney is a fullback god. He is Ireland's Christian Cullen and Blanco all in one. As long as he stays away from TV girls he'll do just fine.

I was pretty impressed with our rush defense it was and aggressive especially DJ Church (who should have been binned) also happy with O'Mahony cameo he seems like a smart player.

Overall the impression I got was it's a team in transition. A long slow transition.

As for O'Connell so the guy lacks grace. Big deal. Bendy earlier in the thread wished for a more traditional post match interview. I do to I think they should be banned. No player after 80 minutes is gonna contribute anything other than shite.

Anyway that will be my last 6 nations game. I'm off to Montreal and they don't show rugby in pubs there. Boo.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 5, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Overall the impression I got was it's a team in transition. A long slow transition.


 
Strikes me you're in need of a 12, a 13 (backup/successor to BOD), a 10 (of the requisite standard) and a 9, as I don't think your halfbacks are good enough at that level. If I was being hyper critical I'd also say that you're going to have to bring through a proper 7 (which may just be underway) and make some hard choices about balancing your backrow. SOB looks out of sorts, tbh, and far from the force he was last season. Equally, shorn of the support to allow him to do his trademark runs, Heaslip looks lightweight and worskshy when it comes to the grafting,donkey work that 8s are also supposed to get through. Hanging out on the wings just doesnt' cut it against the best.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 5, 2012)

yeah, earls was nowhere to be seen except for a couple of line break in the second half. 

and for the record i really couldn't give a shit if POC lacks social grace. makes not a bit of difference to the game.


----------



## gabi (Mar 5, 2012)

flypanam said:


> It's a fucking amazing 6N. So much better than the fayre thrown up last year.


 
I agree it's been entertaining. Will be very very interesting to see how the SH teams fare up here - the other five seem to be being left behind by the Welsh though. Who I have to say seem to be playing beautifully. And don't shoot me down bendeus for saying that... They seem to have truly figured out how to attack, defend... oh and cheat, with a straight face (warburton = mccaw/fitzpatrick)


----------



## bendeus (Mar 5, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> yeah, earls was nowhere to be seen except for a couple of line break in the second half.
> 
> and for the record i really couldn't give a shit if POC lacks social grace. makes not a bit of difference to the game.


 
Bet you give a shit that he's injured, though. Jocks and Saes will be encouraged by that news.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 5, 2012)

gabi said:


> I agree it's been entertaining. Will be very very interesting to see how the SH teams fare up here - the other five seem to be being left behind by the Welsh though. Who I have to say seem to be playing beautifully. And don't shoot me down bendeus for saying that... They seem to have truly figured out how to attack, defend... oh and cheat, with a straight face (warburton = mccaw/fitzpatrick)


 
Blimey! I'm not sure if we're up to even the highest cheating standards of our Irish bretheren, let alone challenging the dominance of the ABs in that area.

Biggest test for Wales will be the three test tour of Oz this summer (Ireland going to NZ, iirc). Win one of those and we'll really have put ourselves on the map.


----------



## gabi (Mar 5, 2012)

What is the test schedule for the summer? Seems ages since the Welsh went to NZ.

Would love to see them down there for a proper a 3 test series. Oh, and Warburton is definitely well on the way to managing the fine line of conning refs and cheating. and that's not a bad thing as far as you're concerned.


----------



## 1927 (Mar 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Blimey! I'm not sure if we're up to even the highest cheating standards of our Irish bretheren, let alone challenging the dominance of the ABs in that area.
> 
> Biggest test for Wales will be the three test tour of Oz this summer (Ireland going to NZ, iirc). Win one of those and we'll really have put ourselves on the map.


 
I'll take us towin the tests 2-1 atleast. You read it here first!


----------



## bendeus (Mar 5, 2012)

gabi said:


> What is the test schedule for the summer? Seems ages since the Welsh went to NZ.
> 
> Would love to see them down there for a proper a 3 test series. Oh, and Warburton is definitely well on the way to managing the fine line of conning refs and cheating. and that's not a bad thing as far as you're concerned.


 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/3194026.stm

http://www.ticketbooth.org.uk/rugby-tickets/games/Ireland-New-Zealand-rugby-tickets.php

http://www.rfu.com/News/2010/May/News Articles/250510_England_SA_dates

More of this sort of thing. Proper, old school three-test tours. I really, really hope that they'll take full-strength rather than development squads down. Suspect that Wales and England at the very least will do just that.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 5, 2012)

1927 said:


> I'll take us towin the tests 2-1 atleast. You read it here first!


 
=IF(AND(ADAMJONES,SAMWARBURTON),"2-1 possible","No fucking chance")


----------



## The Octagon (Mar 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/3194026.stm
> 
> http://www.ticketbooth.org.uk/rugby-tickets/games/Ireland-New-Zealand-rugby-tickets.php
> 
> ...


 
In the case of England that's the same thing anyway 

But yes, thoroughly looking forward to more international rugby this year (and in our case at least, a reasonable time to watch)


----------



## bendeus (Mar 5, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> In the case of England that's the same thing anyway


 
It is indeed. There's a couple of youngsters still due to come back from injury as well, right?



> The average age of England's starting XV is 25 years and 157 days old, their youngest of the Six Nations era. Wales will also put out their youngest starting XV. The Welsh average is 25 years and 93 days.


 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...Six-Nations-2012-England-v-Wales-preview.html

Ours is a 'development squad', too.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 6, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Bet you give a shit that he's injured, though. Jocks and Saes will be encouraged by that news.


 
A bit silly for you this. Of course we're going to miss him. However if we have a the same intensity in the first twenty as we had against France we'll be okay. Of course our centers need to be sorted out.

Yachvilli maybe back for France. He will do something for France. They are still very dangerous...


----------



## bendeus (Mar 6, 2012)

flypanam said:


> A bit silly for you this. Of course we're going to miss him. However if we have a the same intensity in the first twenty as we had against France we'll be okay. Of course our centers need to be sorted out.
> 
> Yachvilli maybe back for France. He will do something for France. They are still very dangerous...


 
Didn't mean anything by it, mate. Just stating the obvious, really - any team is going to miss two world class players. POC is one of them, and if I was a fan I'd 'give a shit'.

Equally, if I was a fan of the opposition, particularly opposition with a very strong lineout threat/scrum threat/defensive pattern, I'd be looking at the big POC shaped hole and feeling pretty good about things.

Just for clarification, like


----------



## bendeus (Mar 6, 2012)

.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Ours is a 'development squad', too.


 
I know you've made this point several times but is soomething that gets overlooked when people talk about the age and development nature of England this 6N. 

Clearly the Welsh are a hugely promising squad but it seems like they've been playing together for a while, so young yes but I wouldnt call them development, maybe almost developed?  From a Welsh fans point of view, the next World Cup in England looks just about perfect timing I guess?


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 7, 2012)

OK and on to this weekend.  I think two of the games are pretty easy to call, I can't see Scotland getting a result against the Irish and I think there will be absolutly nothing in the other game for Italy.  So for these two I'm going Ireland by 10 and Wales by at least 20.  I fully expect the Welsh backs to cut free after the bosh of the England match.

France v England is a tough one to call, neither side has been that impressive, its just that England have had the new squad excuse.  I think home advantage may just nick it, but I'm expecting a close game.  Maybe France by 5.

As an aside it looks like Nick Mallett is the likely option for the new England coach.  If that does happen I'd be pretty happy, a good experienced coach is exactly what we need at the moment.  Lancaster has done well and I'd like to see him retained in the set-up as a probable further coach but at this stage with all the team upheaval I'd prefer to see a experienced coach with international experience at the helm.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 7, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> I know you've made this point several times but is soomething that gets overlooked when people talk about the age and development nature of England this 6N.
> 
> Clearly the Welsh are a hugely promising squad but it seems like they've been playing together for a while, so young yes but I wouldnt call them development, maybe almost developed? From a Welsh fans point of view, the next World Cup in England looks just about perfect timing I guess?


 
I appreciate I may have laboured the point somewhat. I just feel that amidst the clamour of the media banging on about the youth of the England squad, they're missing the fact that the Welsh one is younger. What Lancaster is doing right now is right, though. Just like Steve Hansen did for us in the seasons leading up to '03, he needs to blood a load of potential talent in the furnace of top flight rugby. It doesn't seem like the AP is the arena to do that any longer (or at least the AP is no longer competitive style-wise with the top end of the international game), so he has to look to the national side to do that work. 

Not all of the kids brought through are going to make it, and neither are some of the journeymen suddenly blinking in the light of elite rugby, but the likes of Farrell and that stout yeoman Tuilagi can provide the nucleus of a team around which new talent can be slotted in and a new ethic built.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 7, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> OK and on to this weekend. I think two of the games are pretty easy to call, I can't see Scotland getting a result against the Irish and I think there will be absolutly nothing in the other game for Italy. So for these two I'm going Ireland by 10 and Wales by at least 20. I fully expect the Welsh backs to cut free after the bosh of the England match.


 
I think the jocks have it in them to upset the Irish. The Irish lineout has been looking suspect enough with POC, and without him they could really be in trouble. I wouldn't write off the sweaties completely, and nor have Ireland looked that impressive save for the first 20 in Paris. Could be closer than people think.



> France v England is a tough one to call, neither side has been that impressive, its just that England have had the new squad excuse. I think home advantage may just nick it, but I'm expecting a close game. Maybe France by 5.


 
A bitter war of attrition that saps the soul of the Frogs and inflicts a couple of 10-day recovery time injuries to key players is what I'm after.



> As an aside it looks like Nick Mallett is the likely option for the new England coach. If that does happen I'd be pretty happy, a good experienced coach is exactly what we need at the moment.


 
Yet again, though, it exposes the paucity of coaching talent in the home nations. I'd say that arguably the top ten coaches in world rugby are all SH. I reckon the NH player base is now catching up, if not caught up, but in terms of tactical acumen, motivation and innovation, but we're still stuck somewhere in the bloody '90s in terms of our coaches.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 7, 2012)

It says a lot that Gats is the Lions' likely choice for the next tour, and that we've kept bouncing back to McGeechan.  Geechs is class though.

Re the weekend, I've got a feeling the Scots might surprise the Irish.  It'll certainly be close.  Scotland are not building towards a consistent display.  Maybe away from home this round is good for them, giving them the chance to have a crack at it when no-one is clamouring for a win.

I'm expecting Wales to beat Italy well, based on their penchant to start quickly.  They have been trying to blow teams away with a sustained period of attacking rugby during the first 10-20mins.  It might not have led to points directly, but it certainly tires teams for later in the game.  And I think this time they WILL break the opposition's defence, which in turn could lead to a fair romp.  Now I've said it, it'll all go tits up.

I'm expecting the English to keep in French faces all game.  It won't be pretty.  France might implode in that special way they seem to against the English.  If I was forced to make a prediction, I'd say:

Wales by 20pts
Scotland by less than 5pts
England by less than 5pts

Fuck it, I've said it.  Let the gods of rugby do their worst.


----------



## The Boy (Mar 7, 2012)

Wales by 30
Scotland by 3
England by 15

You heard it here first 

Edit: assuming the English have their eye-protectors on....


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 7, 2012)

An interesting round a-brewing.


----------



## starfish (Mar 7, 2012)

& not forgetting we will have Euan Murray back as the games on a saturday. Looking at the squad he's on the bench so for once our scrum will improve after a front row replacement. Lamont will be up against Bowe so thats their most dangerous back covered, nothing else to worry about.


----------



## Karl 01 (Mar 8, 2012)

lol france....


----------



## elfman (Mar 8, 2012)

Wales by 20+
Ireland by 3
England by 5


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 8, 2012)

I'd tell Euan Murray to trot on. Silly religionist.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 8, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> It says a lot that Gats is the Lions' likely choice for the next tour, and that we've kept bouncing back to McGeechan. Geechs is class though.


 
Yup. Picking Ugo Monye over Shane Williams to start two tests was right fucking class. So classy, in fact, that along with the appalling ineptitude of Onan, it probably lost us the series

Anyway, we're due a big one. 20+ on Italy I'd say. We're gonna moider 'em.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 8, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> I'd tell Euan Murray to trot on. Silly religionist.


 
I wonder how all the islanders manage, given their profound sense of faith. Maybe SamoanJeebus is more lenient about such things than JockJeebus?


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Yet again, though, it exposes the paucity of coaching talent in the home nations. I'd say that arguably the top ten coaches in world rugby are all SH.


 
He was born in Hertfordshire, he's one of ours!

You can't have it both ways.......................


----------



## bendeus (Mar 8, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> He was born in Hertfordshire, he's one of ours!
> 
> You can't have it both ways.......................


 
I never knew that. Old Saes Mallet, eh!


----------



## starfish (Mar 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I wonder how all the islanders manage, given their profound sense of faith. Maybe SamoanJeebus is more lenient about such things than JockJeebus?


 
Have you heard of the Wee Frees?

Although i dont think Murrays one of them. Most capped player ever to come out of my old club though.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 8, 2012)

just got tickets for Wales Italy.... not sure what the fuck is going on this year, i have been extremly lucky to say the least


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Yup. Picking Ugo Monye over Shane Williams to start two tests was right fucking class. So classy, in fact, that along with the appalling ineptitude of Onan, it probably lost us the series.


 
Ouch. I still loves him. he's like a grandad figure. Marvellous.



bendeus said:


> Anyway, we're due a big one. 20+ on Italy I'd say. We're gonna moider 'em.


 
I get the vibe too. A bit of focus and we're away. The first 15min will tell all. Score a try then and we'll score a fair few I feel. Still, I'm not going to count any chickens, even though I said in an earlier post we'd win by 20pts. It all comes down to performing. We should expect to be under the fish defensively for a period. Those fish...very dangerous.


----------



## badlands (Mar 8, 2012)

Ireland played well against us and we won

Scotland played well and we won

England played well and we won

its our year


----------



## bendeus (Mar 8, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Ouch. I still loves him. he's like a grandad figure. Marvellous.


 
Bah. Unforgivable. It's like breaking a butterfly on wheel. Ugo. Fucking. Monye!



> We should expect to be under the fish defensively for a period. Those fish...very dangerous.


 
Less the fish, more the sea cucumber. Italy are utterly reliant on Parisse to get any go forward. If you have a balanced backrow you can basically negate him. Their other option is bullying up front. They don't have the pack to bully us any more. Far from it, in fact. We are more powerful and more mean from 1-8.

Then what? The unerring boot of Burton, the god given dominance Masi has in the air, or the guile and subtlety of Bergamasco on the wing? They are going to be swarmed by our defence, they'll chuck stupid passes and the receiver will get smashed back. They won't break the gainline, and will get rapidly demoralised. When they try to kick out of trouble they'll get it back with interest. When they try to counter they'll get turned over, when they try to go route one they'll be outmuscled. Their midfield defence is ropey - Spikey, The Priest, Roberts and JD will bash through those channels all day.*

I rarely feel so certain - we're going to dick them, and they will have no answer at all.

* E2A: and then, on 60 minutes, we'll bring Ryan Jones, Luke Charteris, James Hook and Scott Williams onto the pitch - fresh and raring to go - and blow them away.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 8, 2012)

badlands said:


> Ireland played well against us and we won
> 
> Scotland played well and we won
> 
> ...


 
Ssshhhhhhhhhh!


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 9, 2012)

Fuck me Bendy, it's too late to be saying shhhh! I'm trying to play it down here, and your own special version of hubris against the gods of rugby might have blown it for us. I'm trying sound magnanimous before a game we all know we should win and win well. You've tempted fate this time. We'll be down to 13 men by halftime and have given away 3 interception tries and we'll end up losing the game by 5 points. It's all going to be your fault. 

Otherwise I agree. Just trying to play it down.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 9, 2012)

I went into the common room in work this morning and someone had written: Wales 42 - 9 Ireland. 

That'd be sweet.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 9, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Fuck me Bendy, it's too late to be saying shhhh! I'm trying to play it down here, and your own special version of hubris against the gods of rugby might have blown it for us. I'm trying sound magnanimous before a game we all know we should win and win well. You've tempted fate this time. We'll be down to 13 men by halftime and have given away 3 interception tries and we'll end up losing the game by 5 points. It's all going to be your fault.
> 
> Otherwise I agree. Just trying to play it down.



Sergio Parisse agrees with my post 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17307330


----------



## elfman (Mar 9, 2012)

I don't get what the Leicester coaches point is when they're moaning about Flood and Youngs not starting for England. Flood has never played that well for England. He's always been a mediocre player trying to fill the gap that Wilkinson left after he started getting injured because there was nobody else to play there. Youngs has been a good player but hasn't played well for England since last year. Dickson and Farrell are proving that they deserve to start.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 9, 2012)

They had actually written Italy. My fucking head is going.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Sergio Parisse agrees with my post
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17307330



Yeah, read that this morning. Now they've nothing to lose, they'll have a quality game. Bastards.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 9, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> They had actually written Italy. My fucking head is going.


 
42-9 against the Irish? Now that *would* be sweet!


----------



## bendeus (Mar 9, 2012)

elfman said:


> I don't get what the Leicester coaches point is when they're moaning about Flood and Youngs not starting for England. Flood has never played that well for England. He's always been a mediocre player trying to fill the gap that Wilkinson left after he started getting injured because there was nobody else to play there. Youngs has been a good player but hasn't played well for England since last year. Dickson and Farrell are proving that they deserve to start.


 
Thought Flood was the standout 10 in the 09/10 season. Developed an excellent understanding with Ashton and made the right decisions at the right moments. He was something of a revelation that year, but seems to have fallen off a bit.


----------



## elfman (Mar 10, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Thought Flood was the standout 10 in the 09/10 season. Developed an excellent understanding with Ashton and made the right decisions at the right moments. He was something of a revelation that year, but seems to have fallen off a bit.


 
I'm really not sure myself. I've never rated him as more than a good club player or 2nd choice international.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

elfman said:


> I'm really not sure myself. I've never rated him as more than a good club player or 2nd choice international.



Me neither, except for last season. He bossed us in the game at the Millennium Stadium, though, and was, IMO, about 80% of the reason for Ashton's six tries. Most likely a flash in the pan but he really varied his game and stamped his authority on games. Dunno where he's at now, though.


----------



## Pingu (Mar 10, 2012)

this weekend is causing me concern.

you see I Want the english to get a beating.. but I also want france to lose...

is it too much to ask for another draw? preferably a hard fought one that will knacker the french out?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2012)

Keep an eye out for me, im wearing a red shirt 

laters


----------



## gabi (Mar 10, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Me neither, except for last season. He bossed us in the game at the Millennium Stadium, though, and was, IMO, about 80% of the reason for Ashton's six tries. Most likely a flash in the pan but he really varied his game and stamped his authority on games. Dunno where he's at now, though.


 
Flood, to my eye, is the best English no.10. Altho that isnt saying much. He's decent, but its fucking absurd that with the pool of players available in this country, they can't produce a truly world class flyhalf to succeed Wilko.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 10, 2012)

Pingu said:


> you see I Want the english to get a beating.. but I also want france to lose...


 
another draw would be lovely (as long as it's an exciting game, obv), followed next week by wales destroying france.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 10, 2012)

ireland by 15
wales by 20
france by 15


----------



## Pingu (Mar 10, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> another draw would be lovely (as long as it's an exciting game, obv), followed next week by wales destroying france.


 


my point exactly. A hard fought draw with several minor (not career threatening) injuries.. just enough to keep key players out for a few weeks...

england winning by 3 points... 79 mins 45 seconds in.. a penalty given on the halfway line... an impossible kick surely.. especually give france have no recoginsed kickers left since the collapsed maul incident just after half time?  Tight head rumbles up to take the kick... hooof...it hangs.. hangs.. hits the upright.. bounces off the crossbar.. and over...


crowd goes wild....


----------



## gabi (Mar 10, 2012)

I think Wales will go to town today. At least 50.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> Flood, to my eye, is the best English no.10. Altho that isnt saying much. He's decent, but its fucking absurd that with the pool of players available in this country, they can't produce a truly world class flyhalf to succeed Wilko.


 
I know. Each one seems to have a glaring weakness. Cipriani was a brilliant attacking 10 on his day, but was a speedbump in defence, and bottled it when the going got tough. Hodgson probably had the greatest ability to bring his backs into play, but was/is appallingly inconsistent. Flood is decent enough, but was never going to set the world alight, and let's be honest, Johnny Jeebus was pretty shit from '05 onwards.

We'll see about Farrell. He looks like he has something, but the English press do have that slight tendency to turn people into megastars before their international careers begin.


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 10, 2012)

afternoon rugby thread :cheers:


----------



## N_igma (Mar 10, 2012)

Did he just say probably the two best anthems in international sport? Bollocks.


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 10, 2012)

winds blowing the wrong way today, can't hear the stadium


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

Sloppy start by Wales.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 10, 2012)

italy defending mightily.

wales a little over-eager maybe?


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

Italian defence very impressive. Wales missing Warburton at the breakdown and thus far pretty clueless in attack.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

Perroquet said:


> italy defending mightily.
> 
> wales a little over-eager maybe?



Aye. 6 points pissed away. Bit of hubris.


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 10, 2012)

that's more like it


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

Thank fuck for that!


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 10, 2012)

ouch


----------



## ddraig (Mar 10, 2012)

no fucking way 
prissy italian twats


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 10, 2012)

deserved win for wales but the margin should've been tighter. 
they won't get away with that first 3/4 next week.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 10, 2012)

lush! 
big screen in Coopers Field Cardiff for the Grand Slam next week!
let's ave it


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

I don't think I've ever felt so disappointed after a 20+ point win. We really, really need to work out how to break down well-marshalled defences. They knew that if they double tackled our strike runners and then competed for the ball on the deck they'd stop us in our tracks. For all that Tipuric played well we missed that supernatural sense of where to be when at the breakdown that Warburton brings. The turnovers we conceded in the oppo 22 were fucking unforgivable, as were the poor handling errors.

Priestland continues to bump along the bottom form-wise. He was fucking dreadful in the second half to be fair. Choosing the wrong options, and executing badly when he did make a decision. His kicking out of hand was appalling.

Some positives for me included our lineout, which looked a lot more well-marshalled. We're actually competing successfully on the oppo throw as well, which seems to be a first in my memory. The Charteris/Evans (who had an excellent game) axis looks like it could be promising.

Kudos also to our scrum. We absolutely smashed theirs a few times.

Cuthbert was well-deserved MoM for me. Loved the way he went looking for work and loved the way he carried. Great try to wrap things up.

A couple of points: Parisse you fucking face-clutching, play-acting cunt! He fucking milked that in a way that should never be acceptable on a rugby pitch, particularly from one of the game's greatest players, the gouging fuck.

Clancy: genuinely clueless in the second half after a bright start. Thought he was reffing the breakdown very impressively and consistently initially, but then he lost it: blue bodies flying in from all angles, the clear playing of the ball on the ground, the TWO examples of retaliation for Bergamasco, which should clearly have seen decisions reversed and a yellow shown, the obvious knock-on by Bergamasco which everyone in the entire world _except_ the three match officials noticed. 1/2p's yellow also marginal - he was jumping to compete for the ball.

Gatland said afterwards that Clancy was unnecessarily pedantic, and questioned how a side that was coughing up something like 70% posession and territory could have parity in the penalty count by the end of the game. I think that's a pretty valid point to make.

Anyway, well done Italy - you can tackle for 80 minutes. Pity you had little ambition to do anything else. Wales - you will have to up your game considerably to beat the Frogs. I hope that's our headless chicken game out of our systems, but I really wonder whether the Priest should be wearing 10 come the next game.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

Quite looking forward to Ireland vs. Sweaties. Nice to watch a game you have no stake in the result of that nevertheless has quite a bit of intrigue. I reckon the Jocks could cause an upset here.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

Healy folding like a cheap suit in the first scrum


----------



## Grandma Death (Mar 10, 2012)

That was frustrating to watch.  I really felt like that was a ground out win.  The Italians were great in defence.  I just think we need to be more creative.  England and Italy read us well and we need to bring something better to the table.  It just feels like we're exhibiting great patience and waiting for opportunities which is fine but it won't win us the slam if France bring their A+  game next week.  Oh and priestland isn't playing well.  I'm wondering if he should be on the bench next week.  Halfpenny was unlucky?  Clumsy but not a yellow.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2012)

Just back, we should have pissed alll over them, they couldnt gain any ground.......

Now do i sell these tickets for Wales - Fracne and buy a boat, or what?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2012)

tickets on Ebay for next week going for £700+

hmmmmm


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

Fucking hell. Jocks have gift wrapped and delivered two soft tries to Ireland. Pisspoor from them - still can't quite work out how good Ireland actually are from this.


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 10, 2012)

traitor  

(edit: @bob)


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

Grey - feet and hands of a 13 in the body of a 4. What a fucking player.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Mar 10, 2012)

My word. Who is the giant blonde?


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

Scottish wide defence keeps donating lulz


----------



## bendeus (Mar 10, 2012)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> My word. Who is the giant blonde?


 
Richie Grey. He will be a legend.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> traitor
> 
> (edit: @bob)


 
thats you off my "coming for a ride on my speed boat" list.... 

i dont think i will sell but after today i have to be honest i am tempted with the piss poor perfromance...


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 10, 2012)

Anyone know who the ref is ...


Got a idea in my head that he is a complete asshole due to something and cannie think why

Hehe


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 10, 2012)

richie grey is scary stuff.


----------



## gosub (Mar 10, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> Anyone know who the ref is ...
> 
> 
> Got a idea in my head that he is a complete asshole due to something and cannie think why
> ...


Kiwi. First six nations match


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 10, 2012)

Ta muchly


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Mar 10, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Richie Grey. He will be a legend.


He's an Adonis


----------



## ddraig (Mar 10, 2012)

ouch! big time


----------



## ddraig (Mar 10, 2012)

"i didn't even touch him" ! lying fouling bastard!


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 10, 2012)

happy enough with that. 
we could easily have had a couple more tries, can't say the same for scotland.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 10, 2012)

motm ryan really doesn't like talking to the camera.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 10, 2012)

well done Ireland


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 10, 2012)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> He's an Adonis



He a daffy haired monster


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Mar 10, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> He a daffy haired monster


*faints*


----------



## ddraig (Mar 10, 2012)

so Wales, Ireland and Cardiff City win! proper tidy


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 10, 2012)

A nice game to temper the Welsh public's expectancy, the players too for that matter. We need a footballer at 12 to take some pressure off of the Priest. Scott Williams. Great hands. Let's get him in. Keep JD, drop Roberts. Typical Wales today...drawn into the silly stuff. Maybe a nice reality check for everyone. Time to knuckle down. I was cursing Clancy though. Killed the game late on.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 11, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> We need a footballer at 12 to take some pressure off of the Priest.


 
Who is in form and fitting that bill, I wonder?



> drop Roberts.


 
He's played the entire competition on one leg, bless him. 



> Typical Wales today...drawn into the silly stuff


 
Not sure that we were. We simply didn't know how to break down a resolute defence.



> Maybe a nice reality check for everyone.


 
For us and the Frogs, yes.



> Time to knuckle down. I was cursing Clancy though. Killed the game late on.


 
No intuition. weird to criticise a ref for sticking to the rules, but Clancy didn't help that game.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 11, 2012)

What a cunt.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbyn...tter-rant-to-leigh-halfpenny-91466-30505996/?


----------



## The Boy (Mar 11, 2012)

bendeus said:


> What a cunt.
> 
> http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbyn...tter-rant-to-leigh-halfpenny-91466-30505996/?


 
Sounds like he's having quite a lot of fun. If people didn't bite etc...


----------



## bendeus (Mar 11, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Sounds like he's having quite a lot of fun. If people didn't bit etc...


 
Yeah. Sounds just like that


----------



## The Boy (Mar 11, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Yeah. Sounds just like that


 
Why the rolleyes?  Genuinely sounds like he is just having fun making a bit of a nuisance of himself.  As you might expect from a scrummie.  Obviously just has the cunt gene.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 11, 2012)

"Shut up I've had shits with more talent"

Leigh Halfpenny.

You.

FFS


----------



## Col_Buendia (Mar 11, 2012)

https://twitter.com/#!/IamAustinHealey/status/178530996629671936

"Wifi at the coal face"?

Sounds like boring-as-fuck second-hand English racism as usual, if you ask me. Idiot.


----------



## elfman (Mar 11, 2012)

Rugby player is a complete wanker shock!

Every knows Austin Healey is a complete dickhead already.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 11, 2012)

I want to see Scott Williams given a run. JD seems to hit better spaces with Scott alongside him. And yes, it'd be nice if the boy Henson gets back to where he could be. I wouldn't go with Hook though, that's for sure. Crumbles like a Flake, bless him.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm more annoyed that Austin reckons Penny should have been shown red. What the fuck?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

Speed boat or go, Speed boat or go....... hmmmmmmm


----------



## The Boy (Mar 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Speed boat or go, Speed boat or go....... hmmmmmmm


 
My dad got his hands on tickets for the Calcutta cup match at Murrayfield some years ago through a friend.  A few days before the match he spotted a wanted ad in the classifieds offering £1500 for a pair of tickets.  Since they were given to him as a favour he decided selling would be the wrong thing to do.  It rained, it was cold and he and my mum had to sit for 80 minutes as England trounced Scotland.

What relevance this has, I'm not sure.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 11, 2012)

Col_Buendia said:


> https://twitter.com/#!/IamAustinHealey/status/178530996629671936
> 
> "Wifi at the coal face"?
> 
> Sounds like boring-as-fuck second-hand English racism as usual, if you ask me. Idiot.


he probably thought it was an hilarious alternative to sheep shaggers


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

The Boy said:


> My dad got his hands on tickets for the Calcutta cup match at Murrayfield some years ago through a friend. A few days before the match he spotted a wanted ad in the classifieds offering £1500 for a pair of tickets. Since they were given to him as a favour he decided selling would be the wrong thing to do. It rained, it was cold and he and my mum had to sit for 80 minutes as England trounced Scotland.
> 
> What relevance this has, I'm not sure.


 
I have money on the grand slam, so if i sell the tickets and we win im minted,

If i go and we lose, then im down...... after yesterday im not sure we can do it, will see how France play today and then make my mind up.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 11, 2012)

http://theeastterrace.typepad.com/m...s-life-after-vicious-attack-by-max-evans.html


----------



## starfish (Mar 11, 2012)

We deserved the beating yesterday. Once again a few good stand out performances but again we proved we are very good at passing the ball from side of the pitch to the other without actually going anywhere. Disappointing to see our line out fall apart a wee bit. Cant say in looking forward to the Italy match now.


----------



## yardbird (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm listening on the radio - fun already 
Come on England!


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 11, 2012)

French defence is ideal. A bit more of that next weekend please!


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 11, 2012)

Better camera work today. Yesterday was appalling. How many lines-out did we miss first up due to the ill-timed replays?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

dum dem dum


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

FUCK YEAH!


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 11, 2012)

Job has to be Lancaster's now surely? Rather him than anyone from the SH.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 11, 2012)

Thanks, Saes.

France are shit.


----------



## Col_Buendia (Mar 11, 2012)

Lol at the Welshies abandoning the first rule of sport - ABE


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

fuck it, im playing for the speed boat now


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 11, 2012)

England will be touted as the best team in the 6N ever now.  Go English press!


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 11, 2012)

The Irish will do them over next week.


----------



## Col_Buendia (Mar 11, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> The Irish will do them over next week.


Ooh, I hope so. But historical evidence doesn't allow me to relax in the security of your prediction...


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 11, 2012)

Leaves 3 cracking games next weekend. Something to play for in each. Best tournie I can remember.


----------



## newharper (Mar 11, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Job has to be Lancaster's now surely? Rather him than anyone from the SH.


 
Only a bunch of brain dead fuckwits would give it to anyone else; oh, errr.


----------



## badlands (Mar 11, 2012)

yardbird said:


> I'm listening on the radio - fun already


 
you like Robertson?


----------



## trampie (Mar 11, 2012)

Wales are massive odds on to win the six nations title after this weekends results.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

trampie said:


> Wales are massive odds on to win the six nations title after this weekends results.


 
England would need to beat Ireland by 26 Points to beat Wales,..... i think?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

1 

 Urban75   288





 2 

 Cleckheaton   241





 3 

 all the good ones are tak   212





 4 

 Read Fiction   156





 5 

 SteroidAbuse   147





 6 

 Bendys Bois   0


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 11, 2012)

badlands said:


> you like Robertson?


Please god no!  He's a cock.  An epic cock.


----------



## newharper (Mar 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> England would need to beat Ireland by 26 Points to beat Wales,..... i think?


Depends surely, on the Wales v France result.


----------



## gabi (Mar 11, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Job has to be Lancaster's now surely? Rather him than anyone from the SH.


 
Agreed. He's done a great job, all things considered. I assume the only reason the RFU is looking at all these southern hem options is an inferiority complex - when there's a very good manager right there. in fact if he's not hired full time by the poms will probably (ironically) be snapped up by a SH side.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

newharper said:


> Depends surely, on the Wales v France result.


 
Sorry yeah 26 over what we score next week i meant....  so 29 if we score 3 etc


----------



## trampie (Mar 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> England would need to beat Ireland by 26 Points to beat Wales,..... i think?


Wales have to lose and England have to win next week, then England would also need a 38 point swing in their favour to take it to tries scored or a 39 point swing for England to win it on points difference, Wales are 1/200 odds on with some bookies to be champions.
As a rule of thumb England need to beat Ireland by about 20 points and Wales need to lose to France by about 20 points for England to win the championship.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

trampie said:


> Wales have to lose and England have to win next week, England would then need a 38 point swing in their favour to take it to tries scored or a 39 point swing for England to win it on points difference, Wales are 1/200 odds on with some bookies.


 
I still have £10 on the grand slam.... so if that comes in im about £300 for £30 stake this year. had the tripple on two bets 

saying that had to pay for some tickets this year.... only one Jolly.


----------



## trampie (Mar 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I still have £10 on the grand slam.... so if that comes in im about £300 for £30 stake this year. had the tripple on two bets
> 
> saying that had to pay for some tickets this year.... only one Jolly.


Well done.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

oh and im wining the fantasy league on here.... think i win a badge or something?


----------



## 1927 (Mar 11, 2012)

can I just point out that I had wales to win championship from day one. just wish I had backed my own hunch,but I'm not a betting man!


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

i always put money on before the first game, 2005 was a good year for me  had them for the tripple and the grandslam and made about £300 for £5 bet....

i dont bet on anything else...  much


----------



## bendeus (Mar 11, 2012)

So I didn't really catch the first half today. Were England that good, or were France fucking clueless? Their defence for Croft's try was criminal, for example. What are people's thoughts?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2012)

only watched last 20 mins.....

I'm not confident about next week after the way we played yesterday.....


----------



## The Boy (Mar 11, 2012)

bendeus said:


> So I didn't really catch the first half today. Were England that good, or were France fucking clueless? Their defence for Croft's try was criminal, for example. What are people's thoughts?


 
Bit of both.  I'm not entirely panicking about the state of the squad atm.  A few faces I expect to be edged out over the summer.  Although some of them will be missed - notably Servat - the Rougerie sized hole in midfield should get hopefully get plugged and Buttin will probs get a run out at FB.  Plus a couple of first team props, Medard and....someone else I can't think of...coming back from injury.


----------



## gabi (Mar 12, 2012)

bendeus said:


> So I didn't really catch the first half today. Were England that good, or were France fucking clueless? Their defence for Croft's try was criminal, for example. What are people's thoughts?


 
England were (and have been throughout this tournament) very very lucky. They took their chances though, which is something they werent doing under the ludicrous 'leadership' of Martin Johnson.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 12, 2012)

I turned round to my lady and said 'let's have the same next week.' France's start was dreadful and England took full advantage. If they start like that against us it's GS time. I think France are showing signs of fatigue as well. Loved Dusautoir physically collaring Fofana after he failed to supply an offload in a potential match-winning position. Proper captaincy that. Class player top captain.


----------



## The Boy (Mar 12, 2012)

Buttin, Pallison, Fritz, Yachcargot, Pierre and Ouedraogo called up.  Nallet, Dupuy, Mermoz, Malzieu dropped and Clerc ruled out with a shoulder injury.


----------



## Grandma Death (Mar 12, 2012)

I think the slams ours for the taking.  The old cliché of which french team turns up wouldn't be consistent with their overall play this tournament.  Let's face it... They've lacked consistency and been dreadful in patches.  We can take em and will next weekend.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 13, 2012)

Having now seen the England game on the iplayer I have to say I was quite impressed.  Contrary to gabi's point above I thought England were the better team, yes France could have nicked it at the end but it was always going to be a close game.  England did exactly what they have done all tournement which is defend well as a unit and stick to a game plan, the big difference in this match was that we actually looked dangerous with the ball in hand.

We were always going to be defending for long periods in the second half, especially after getting the sofest yellow card I have ever seen at any level of the game.  It was great to see Croft looking like his old self again, given he is probably the only genuine world class player we have we are going to need more games like that.

France were for the most part quite poor, they seemed shapeless and unsure of what there game plan was, its like they have slipped back to being the team that barely scraped out of their group at the World Cup.  On this game I cannot see them beating Wales in Cardiff, that being said the one word of caution would be that it patches they have played well but thats all they have been, patches.


----------



## gabi (Mar 13, 2012)

My point was that England have been lucky throughout this tournament. Two chargedowns to win games and capitalising on horrendous errors by the French on sunday. Credit where credit's due - but they could easily be sitting second bottom and Lancaster not receiving all the plaudits he's getting.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 13, 2012)

My earlier post about Lancaster getting the job was merely echoing what bendeus was saying and hoping that they go for him over a proven coach from the SH such as Mallet. You're right they were lucky against the Italians and Scots, and the French defence was very poor on Saturday. 

What's peoples thoughts on Ben Morgan? He's pretty quick for a big guy but is he any use other than being a battering ram? Looked knackered for the second half too.


----------



## elfman (Mar 13, 2012)

Morgan reminds me a bit of Andy Powell. Likes to run with the ball but maybe there might not be much else to his game (in comparison with other back row players anyway). Still, he's been playing brilliantly and doing well at what he's good at.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 13, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> You're right they were lucky against the Italians and Scots, and the French defence was very poor on Saturday.


 We were lucky against the Scots and it was a bit of a scrape against the Italians, but I thought we were a little unlucky against the Welsh, in the sense that it was a very close game and on another day we could have got a draw or nicked a win.  France were patchy and stuttered against Ireland as well, but we came away with a win.



> What's peoples thoughts on Ben Morgan? He's pretty quick for a big guy but is he any use other than being a battering ram? Looked knackered for the second half too.


 
I think he has done enough to be given the number 8 shirt for the foreseeable.  We have a lack of quality specialist number 8's at the moment which was very obvious in the World Cup.  Watching Haskell make a mess of it and then having to endure Easter again pretty much says it all.  I thought the whole pack tired on Sunday but this was probably due to the amount of tackles they made.  Morgan is 23, he is exactly the kind of guy who should be in the team if were building for a tournement which is 4 years away.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 13, 2012)

elfman said:


> Morgan reminds me a bit of Andy Powell. Likes to run with the ball but maybe there might not be much else to his game (in comparison with other back row players anyway). Still, he's been playing brilliantly and doing well at what he's good at.


 
He's a fantastic product of the Welsh youth development system, is what he is. We shouldn't invest in players unless they're going to play for Wales, IMO, especially English ones.

E2A: This is nothing to do (well, ok, not _much_ to do) with my general ABEishness. Due to England stipulating that all elite players must play in Saesland, they will naturally seek to go back over the bridge as soon as they get the call up, just as Morgan has (and who can blame him?). This means that the Scarlets, who have essentially invested WRU money as well as their own in developing Morgan, lose the player the moment he hits his straps. This is pretty shitty all round for cash-strapped regions. We _really _shouldn't be paying to develop English elite squad players. Samoa, South Africa and New Zealand can do that.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 13, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> We were lucky against the Scots and it was a bit of a scrape against the Italians, but I thought we were a little unlucky against the Welsh, in the sense that it was a very close game and on another day we could have got a draw or nicked a win.


 
Does that make Wales equally unlucky insomuch as the fact that but for a couple of last-ditch tackles we could have scored more against you?


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 13, 2012)

Certainly does Bendy *puffs on pipe*


----------



## bendeus (Mar 13, 2012)

Huge lol at Saes non-representation in the player of the tournament stakes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17359782

Genuinely, though, they've worked hard, defended very, very well, kicked their goals, been solid up front. So far, so yawn. They were gifted two tries against France to go with the ones they were gifted by Italy and Scotland. To date they've scored one single try that they've actually worked from open play, and that was only due to inexcusable defending. I would possibly put Farrell there, Tuilagi at the outside, but surely there shouldn't be too much moaning about the fact that the rest of the rugby playing world are so wudely not wecognising them as the best side in Europe, and Tom Croft as the best blindside on the planet (no, I'm not making it up). Should there?

I hope Ireland go to town on them like last year: a proper humping in commemoration of Paddy's day.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 13, 2012)

Oh, and Lydiate to win it for me. He has been titanic.


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## bendeus (Mar 13, 2012)

Lions after round 4. Still trying to pick on form.

15: Halfpenny._ I know this is controversial, but after reading comments on other forums I have revisited some footage from the last few Ireland games, and it's true, Rob Kearney, who is like a salmon in the air, and a god going forward, is fucking awful in defence. He has shit out of/been at fault for three of the tries that Ireland have conceded, and if I know Gatland like I do, he won't accept that. Compare his being carried backwards across the line by North, or his running in the opposite direction from Gray with 1/2p's 'ultimate sacrifice' to keep Strettle out. A solid final line will be important vs. the Ockers, so 1/2p it is_
14: Tommy Bowe. _Right back on it_
13: Tuilagi: _Token __Samoan__ Saes_
12: Roberts_. _
11. North
10. Farrell. _Token northerner_
9. Spikey
8. Faletau
7: Warburton
6: Lydiate/Ferris. _Still too close to call, this. Ferris is awesome, but so is Lydiate. Both wonderful 6's in a very different way._
5: POC. _Nuff said. Still the best._
4: Gray. _Barnstorming performance against the Irish. Pity about the shit around him._
3: Adam
2: Best
1: Gethin. _Healey is very good in the loose and all that, but he still has some distance to travel to be able to contribute what GJ does over the course of a game_

BENCH: Hook, Kearney, Ryan, _A second row_, Ford, Dickson, Paul James


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## ddraig (Mar 13, 2012)

silly video, some rugby footage tho
'Sidesteps and Sideburns' by The Blims


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/walesmusic/2012/03/grand-slam-blims-six-nations-sporting-songs.shtml


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## bendeus (Mar 13, 2012)

ddraig said:


> silly video, some rugby footage tho
> 'Sidesteps and Sideburns' by The Blims
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/walesmusic/2012/03/grand-slam-blims-six-nations-sporting-songs.shtml






It's like Taffy stereotype bingo


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## bendeus (Mar 13, 2012)

_And we all luvs Shane_
_We're a bit sad that 'ee isn't playin'_
_And our captaiin is Sam_
_And we're all quite fond of lambs_
_And we 'opes, that Wales will win the grandslam_


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## elfman (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Huge lol at Saes non-representation in the player of the tournament stakes:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17359782
> 
> ...


 



> Wales captain Sam Warburton, flanker Dan Lydiate, wing Alex Cuthbert and scrum-half Mike Phillips made the list.
> Scotland's David Denton and Ross Rennie and Ireland's Jonny Sexton and Donnacha Ryan were also nominated.
> Three French players were included - Julien Malzieu, Yoann Maestri and Imanol Harinordoquy - along with Italy captain Sergio Parisse.




A bit harsh leaving Farrell out I think. Tuilagi has played as well as a few of those listed as well. I think the only ones I would definitely agree with that have made the list are Warburton, Lydiate, Cuthbert, Harinordoquy and Parisse.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

elfman said:


> A bit harsh leaving Farrell out I think. Tuilagi has played as well as a few of those listed as well. I think the only ones I would definitely agree with that have made the list are Warburton, Lydiate, Cuthbert, Harinordoquy and Parisse.


 
I think you have to have officially been awarded a MoM though, don't you? Farrell hasn't won a MoM yet, so no banana.

FWIW, if the award was for players who haven't got a MoM and are players of the tournament due to their incredible contributions throughout, then it would be 1/2p, Farrell or kearney.


----------



## elfman (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I think you have to have officially been awarded a MoM though, don't you? Farrell hasn't won a MoM yet, so no banana.
> 
> FWIW, if the award was for players who haven't got a MoM and are players of the tournament due to their incredible contributions throughout, then it would be 1/2p, Farrell or kearney.


 
Ah ok, fair enough. I suppose all of England's wins have been away so they aren't as likely to get MoM due to the home broadcaster choosing it.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Does that make Wales equally unlucky insomuch as the fact that but for a couple of last-ditch tackles we could have scored more against you?


 
Yes, which really just shows the absurdity of pointing out luck, particuarly when you're talking about oppostion shortcomings.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Lions after round 4. Still trying to pick on form.
> 
> 15: Halfpenny._ I know this is controversial, but after reading comments on other forums I have revisited some footage from the last few Ireland games, and it's true, Rob Kearney, who is like a salmon in the air, and a god going forward, is fucking awful in defence. He has shit out of/been at fault for three of the tries that Ireland have conceded, and if I know Gatland like I do, he won't accept that. Compare his being carried backwards across the line by North, or his running in the opposite direction from Gray with 1/2p's 'ultimate sacrifice' to keep Strettle out. A solid final line will be important vs. the Ockers, so 1/2p it is_
> 14: Tommy Bowe. _Right back on it_
> ...


 
Actually I wouldnt disagree with too much of that. But really, is Rory Best the best (tsk) hooker we can manage out of 4 international teams? Really?

Interesting you'd pick Farrell over Sexton, I'm just not sure what to make of Sexton - bags of potential but when are we going to see him really dominate a game?

Oh and Kearney over Halfpenny every day of the week.  Also I've just noticed your bench is shit, I'll have to have a think about that.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> He's a fantastic product of the Welsh youth development system, is what he is. We shouldn't invest in players unless they're going to play for Wales, IMO, especially English ones.
> 
> E2A: This is nothing to do (well, ok, not _much_ to do) with my general ABEishness. Due to England stipulating that all elite players must play in Saesland, they will naturally seek to go back over the bridge as soon as they get the call up, just as Morgan has (and who can blame him?). This means that the Scarlets, who have essentially invested WRU money as well as their own in developing Morgan, lose the player the moment he hits his straps. This is pretty shitty all round for cash-strapped regions. We _really _shouldn't be paying to develop English elite squad players. Samoa, South Africa and New Zealand can do that.


 
Just a thought but do you think this should be restricted to Rugby alone?  I ask because if you adopted the same stance for footy it would have massive repercussions for the Welsh, Scottish and even both Irish national sides.


----------



## The Octagon (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Huge lol at Saes non-representation in the player of the tournament stakes:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17359782
> 
> Genuinely, though, they've worked hard, defended very, very well, kicked their goals, been solid up front. So far, so yawn. They were gifted two tries against France to go with the ones they were gifted by Italy and Scotland. To date they've scored one single try that they've actually worked from open play, and that was only due to inexcusable defending. I would possibly put Farrell there, Tuilagi at the outside, *but surely there shouldn't be too much moaning about the fact that the rest of the rugby playing world are so wudely not wecognising them as the best side in Europe, and Tom Croft as the best blindside on the planet (no, I'm not making it up).* Should there?


 
You keep repeating this as though there's a massive media push to claim it as being so? Where? I haven't seen any media gushing over England, in fact they've been surprisingly pragmatic for once.

In the past yes, their hype has been an embarrassment to most England Rugby fans, but this time you're just making it up because you want a stick to beat the 'Saes' with.

Concentrate on the actual rugby analysis, it's more interesting to read.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah it is becoming a bit tiresome, just coming across as a bit obsessed with England.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 14, 2012)

Of course he is. He's Welsh. We're all obsessed by the Saes. It's genetic.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Actually I wouldnt disagree with too much of that. But really, is Rory Best the best (tsk) hooker we can manage out of 4 international teams? Really?


 
On form it's Best ATM.



> Interesting you'd pick Farrell over Sexton,


 
My views on Sexton are pretty well-documented. He's barely international class let alone Lions class. Farrell is a far better bet.



> Oh and Kearney over Halfpenny every day of the week.


 
Against the most potent backline in the world? Kearney's defence is very, very suspect.



> Also I've just noticed your bench is shit


 
It may not contain the best players in each position, but what it does is contains Hook (10, 12, 13, 15), Kearney (15, 11, 14), Ryan (6, 8, 5) and James (1,3). This gives you more options.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Just a thought but do you think this should be restricted to Rugby alone? I ask because if you adopted the same stance for footy it would have massive repercussions for the Welsh, Scottish and even both Irish national sides.


 
Welsh regional rugby is in a very, very different place to football. Our regions are in danger of folding, which would have terrible implications for the game in Wales at all levels. It's simply pragmatic - we don't have the resources to develop players for England, who incidentally would  be blocking our own talent from coming through.


----------



## gabi (Mar 14, 2012)

I know you hate hearing about NZ rugby bendeus, but Wales isn't the only place where provincial rugby's in trouble

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/6576237/Otago-rugby-union-bailout-approved

^^ which aint good. there's something distinctly wrong with the structure of rugby down there. it's on the very verge of becoming something like the NFL. and the same could happen here if you're not careful.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> You keep repeating this as though there's a massive media push to claim it as being so? Where? I haven't seen any media gushing over England


 
That bellend Healey has been widely quoted in the media for his 'best blindside in the world' angle. Someone's giving him the oxygen....



> in fact they've been surprisingly pragmatic *for once*.


 
Maybe it's the accumulation of every year of my adult life except for this one that's behind this. Inverdale and Sky were talking up the England/France game as a 'potential championship decider', btw. There's still sufficient myopia.



> In the past yes, their hype has been an embarrassment to most England Rugby fans, but this time you're just making it up because you want a stick to beat the 'Saes' with.


 
Who, me? 



> Concentrate on the actual rugby analysis, it's more interesting to read


 
I did some analysis in the post you quoted.


----------



## The Octagon (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> That bellend Healey has been widely quoted in the media for his 'best blindside in the world' angle. Someone's giving him the oxygen....


 
So one ex-player says something deliberately intended to cause controversy/debate and it's a Media / England love-in?

Except.... 


> Maybe it's the accumulation of every year of my adult life *except for this one* that's behind this. Inverdale and Sky were talking up the England/France game as a 'potential championship decider', btw. There's still sufficient myopia.


 


So now you're admitting it's not actually happening this time around, you're just grinding a very worn axe.



> Who, me?


 
These are your quotes I'm debating.



> I did some analysis in the post you quoted.


 
I didn't say you didn't, I just said concentrate on it, instead of the other bollocks.

I agree with most of your assessment of our performance so far FWIW, except that if a Welsh player had scored two chargedown tries you'd be waxing lyrical about his athleticism, skill at collecting the ball and general presence of mind


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Welsh regional rugby is in a very, very different place to football. Our regions are in danger of folding, which would have terrible implications for the game in Wales at all levels. It's simply pragmatic - we don't have the resources to develop players for England, who incidentally would be blocking our own talent from coming through.


 
Ok just for Rugby then because you've 'lost' a player (who wouldnt be in the side anyway), we'll keep football as it is because that benefits Wales.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Ok just for Rugby then because you've 'lost' a player (who wouldnt be in the side anyway), we'll keep football as it is because that benefits Wales.


 
Eh? The only point I was trying to make is that our regional teams are haemorrhaging our elite players to France at a rate of knots due to the salary cap, poor crowds and failure of regionalism. The _only _viable business model is for them to do what the Scarlets have done and develop good, young players, who they can hold onto for a bit until the lure of big money and champagne rugby gets too great. It's also incumbent on them to ensure that there's a new, good young player coming through in every position so as to be able to absorb the blow of losing the likes of Gethin Jenkins _et al _abroad.

If you are investing money in developing good young players from England, two things will happen if that investment is well-targeted.

1) The player will get noticed by the English elite squad
2) They will be told in no uncertain terms that if they want an international career they will have to head home

at that point, and as Morgan has demonstrated, they will do just that.

So, what will the investment that the WRU and the club put into that player achieve for either party?

And what will it achieve for the RFU?

Can you not see that?

Because football has transfer fees, Cardiff can develop the players like Ramsey, Earnshaw or Gunter, or indeed reignite the careers of the likes of Chopra, and get a substantial return on investment when they're sold on. This means further investment in the team, which means more success on the pitch, etc. In rugby, this is not the case.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> So now you're admitting it's not actually happening this time around, you're just grinding a very worn axe.


 
Of course I bloody am! It's tradition! 



> These are your quotes I'm debating.


 
See above



> I didn't say you didn't, I just said concentrate on it, instead of the other bollocks.


 
Can't I do a _little_ bit of the other bollocks?



> I agree with most of your assessment of our performance so far FWIW, except that if a Welsh player had scored two chargedown tries you'd be waxing lyrical about his athleticism, skill at collecting the ball and general presence of mind


 
Well of course. If a Welsh player had scored those chargedown tries it _would_ have been as a result of his athleticism, skill at collecting the ball and general presence of mind rather than being flukey and one-dimensional


----------



## The Octagon (Mar 14, 2012)

Heh


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

gabi said:


> I know you hate hearing about NZ rugby bendeus, but Wales isn't the only place where provincial rugby's in trouble
> 
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/6576237/Otago-rugby-union-bailout-approved
> 
> ^^ which aint good. there's something distinctly wrong with the structure of rugby down there. it's on the very verge of becoming something like the NFL. and the same could happen here if you're not careful.


 
Not when it's thoughtfully put rather than gloating, Gabi 

Yes, the whole global game is in trouble, IMO, but it's the pinched peripheries (regional/provincial rugby in Wales, Scotland, NZ, etc.) that are feeling it the most at the moment.

However, even English clubs are feeling it, and according to some stuff I've read, so are half the clubs in the T14. There's some terrible imbalance playing out here, and I don't know how it could be solved save for there being a global season and rationalised competitions.

See, I don't necessarily think an NFL thing would be too bad. NH1 containing clubs/regions/provinces from the British Isles, NH2 containing France, Italy and maybe a development side, SH1 containing Aus and NZ and SH2 containing SA and Arg. Winner and runner up of each plays the winner and runner up of each in a hemisphere playoff. Two winners from each go through to a grand, global semi final, and then a final.

That would pull in the crowds, keep players where they should be to a greater degree, and ensure a consistent season when international windows were universally applied, and where elite players weren't flogged to death.

The global game needs restructuring badly, but the IRB are too cowardly to deal with the complexities and conflicting interests that that requires.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Because football has transfer fees, Cardiff can develop the players like Ramsey, Earnshaw or Gunter, or indeed reignite the careers of the likes of Chopra, and get a substantial return on investment when they're sold on. This means further investment in the team, which means more success on the pitch, etc. In rugby, this is not the case.


 
I know the point you are making but if we apply the same logic to football then you can see the point I'm making.

At this moment there will be hundreds (even thousands) of young Welsh and Scottish lads coming through the schools of excellence and academies of English football clubs. I'm not talking about 17 & 18 year olds I'm talking from 9 upwards, these are being financed by English clubs who are financed through the English system. The few that make it will go on and be eligible to play for Wales or Scotland, this is of no benefit to the English national side.

Its just the nature of sport that some people will go and choose to play for a different country or even in another country (look at how much barca had to pay to get Fabregas back), you can't pull a kid aside at 15 (or whatever) and say 'right when you are 23 which country will you want to play for'? And then chuck them out if they answer incorrectly.

Its a shitter but there isnt much that can be done about it, unless you are going to go down a very suspect path or completly restructure the system globally. England have players scattered around the world as well (where the fuck is Haskell playing now, Japan?) For what its worth I don't neccesarily agree with England's decision to only select English based players, but then again it would be a bit dodgy to say you can play in Wales and Scotland but not in France. Perhaps Wales should only select players who are locally based? Or work on a way to get bigger crowds in that revolves more around afinty to a club rather then 'I want to see some big names'.

I do believe Rugby is as popular as it has ever been in England now and I can't see why that should be any different in Wales, where are the crowds? I went to a Richmond match the other day (English league division 2 South ) and there was 800 in the ground, this when only a couple of minutes walk away London Welsh had 1800 in the ground. To cap it all Harlequins (only 5 minutes drive) had a full house.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> I know the point you are making but if we apply the same logic to football then you can see the point I'm making.
> 
> At this moment there will be hundreds (even thousands) of young Welsh and Scottish lads coming through the schools of excellence and academies of English football clubs. I'm not talking about 17 & 18 year olds I'm talking from 9 upwards, these are being financed by English clubs who are financed through the English system. The few that make it will go on and be eligible to play for Wales or Scotland, this is of no benefit to the English national side.


 
1) Does the FA pay these English clubs for academy/player development, or are these actually run as businesses that generate assets for the club? There's your difference.
2) Can the clubs profit from their sale?



> Its just the nature of sport that some people will go and choose to play for a different country or even in another country (look at how much barca had to pay to get Fabregas back), you can't pull a kid aside at 15 (or whatever) and say 'right when you are 23 which country will you want to play for'? And then chuck them out if they answer incorrectly.


 
Actually, you can, and IMVHO, you should if it's a case of allocating scant resources on an investment that can a) make a return for club and country or, b) neither



> Its a shitter but there isnt much that can be done about it, unless you are going to go down a very suspect path.


 
Sorry, but what's suspect about refusing to invest in an asset that is guaranteed to give you zero return if that investment is successful. Surely this is simple business.



> England have players scattered around the world as well (where the fuck is Haskell playing now, Japan?) For what its worth I don't neccesarily agree with England's decision to only select English based players, but then again it would be a bit dodgy to say you can play in Wales and Scotland but not in France.


 
Erm, The Brand is returning to England (Wasps IIRC) precisely because he wants to play for England. The English clubs have more clout than their Welsh equivalents, so can afford to keep them more readily than we can. A clue here: national pride only goes so far when it comes to players, particularly those nearing the end of their careers, wishing to secure their financial futures.



> Perhaps Wales should only select players who are locally based?


 
With the greatest respect, Teaboy, have you never heard of Gatland's Law? That's exactly what we told players in 2008.The sound you hear now is the rumbling of boots towards the cross-channel ferry. Wales have lost or are about to lose Phillips, Byrne, Hook, Gethin, Charteris and Bennett to T14 rugby, with the likes of AWJ, Roberts, Priestland _et al _set to follow. That's half our side. The regions literally cannot compete, and the mass exodus ensures that the law is unenforcable.



> Or work on a way to get bigger crowds in that revolves more around afinty to a club rather then 'I want to see some big names'.


 
LOL. How would you suggest we do that? People pay to see winning teams competing in tough leagues with meaningful fixtures. They are more likely to turn up a) if they are rich, b) if there are lots of them in the catchment and c) if you can't watch it on terrestrial tv. This is why English crowds are bigger, and Welsh smaller (simplistic, but pretty much true)



> I do believe Rugby is as popular as it has ever been in England now and I can't see why that should be any different in Wales, where are the crowds?


 
One word: regionalisation. One outcome: fail



> I went to a Richmond match the other day (English league division 2 South ) and there was 800 in the ground, this when only a couple of minutes walk away London Welsh had 1800 in the ground. To cap it all Harlequins (only 5 minutes drive) had a full house.


 
How many people live in the catchment area and what is their income relative to that of the population of south Wales?

Sorry, Teaboy, you shouldn't be expected to, really, but you really don't have much of a clue about Welsh domestic rugby


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> 1) Does the FA pay these English clubs for academy/player development,


 
Yes, part of club funding (a big part for lower league clubs) comes from the English FA system of which Team England (I know) are a big factor in.



> or are these actually run as businesses that generate assets for the club? There's your difference.


 
Partly as well, clubs are businesses after all.



> 2) Can the clubs profit from their sale?


 
In some cases, most not as the player will either not make it or be pinched, a la Fabrigas




> Actually, you can, and IMVHO, you should if it's a case of allocating scant resources on an investment that can a) make a return for club and country or, b) neither
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but what's suspect about refusing to invest in an asset that is guaranteed to give you zero return if that investment is successful. Surely this is simple business.


 
There was no guarantee of a zero return in the case of Morgan, he waited a while before he made his mind up. I think it would be a bit suspect refusing to select a lad who lives and goes to school locally on the basis that he was born in another country. I would be very uncomfortable if a Welsh lad who has relocated to London with his parent for a job or something was not being selected for local clubs because they were Welsh. Very uncomfortable in fact.




> Erm, The Brand is returning to England (Wasps IIRC) precisely because he wants to play for England. The English clubs have more clout than their Welsh equivalents, so can afford to keep them more readily than we can. A clue here: national pride only goes so far when it comes to players, particularly those nearing the end of their careers, wishing to secure their financial futures.


 
Sure. TBH that twat can stay where he is for all I care.




> With the greatest respect, Teaboy, have you never heard of Gatland's Law? That's exactly what we told players in 2008.The sound you hear now is the rumbling of boots towards the cross-channel ferry. Wales have lost or are about to lose Phillips, Byrne, Hook, Gethin, Charteris and Bennett to T14 rugby, with the likes of AWJ, Roberts, Priestland _et al _set to follow. That's half our side. The regions literally cannot compete, and the mass exodus ensures that the law is unenforcable.


 
Yup, just speculating on whether it was worth having another go at. Obviously you think not.




> LOL. How would you suggest we do that? People pay to see winning teams competing in tough leagues with meaningful fixtures. They are more likely to turn up a) if they are rich, b) if there are lots of them in the catchment and c) if you can't watch it on terrestrial tv. This is why English crowds are bigger, and Welsh smaller (simplistic, but pretty much true)


 
I'm not a rugby marketing expert but I suspect there are people being paid good wages to work on this very question. I'll tell you what I see when I go to Wales (my company is based in Ruabon) I see a country that is rugby crazy, where I can pretty much have a chat with anyone about the game. Most of the people I know down here wouldnt dream of watching a rugby game because 'its not as good as football'. There must be a way of converting this into bums on seats.




> One word: regionalisation. One outcome: fail


 
Seemingly so.




> How many people live in the catchment area and what is their income relative to that of the population of south Wales?


 
You know the answer to that. I paid a tenner the other day to watch championship rugby, its not all about wealth.



> Sorry, Teaboy, you shouldn't be expected to, really, but you really don't have much of a clue about Welsh domestic rugby


 
No you're right I don't, but hey, I'm just an optomistic guy who can't believe its all doom and gloom. Anyway this all started with the suggestion that Welsh clubs / regions should not consider foreign born players who are based locally just in case they don't stay later down the line. That right there is not the answer to any problems, and as I've outlined.

Anyway this is dull as shit. What are your predictions for the weekend? I'm thinking Scotland will just scrape it, maybe by 5. England v Ireland is tough because England are player better but Ireland have a very good record against us and given its patricks day the place will be swarming with Irish support; hmmmm maybe Ireland by 7 or perhaps a draw? As for the grand slam match, I think its going to be a nail biter but I'm going for Wales by 3.[/QUOTE]


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

Heh. One last point. Morgan wasn't 'based locally'. He was a plumber living in Brizzle, who had fallen out of the bottom of the English club and academy system. Scarlets took him on because a scout saw something in him. As you can see from most of the English-born Welsh players who have come through our academies (Cuthbert, North, Lydiate, J Davies) they have no problem working out their nationality.

Ireland are playing the type of game right now that England will struggle with, IMO. That said, HQ is a fucking hard place to win in. I'd say England will shade it on home advantage (+4), giving Lancaster the job 

Wales _should _beat France, but I'm worried that they have nothing to lose and everything to play for. A lot will also depend on how knackered key players such as Hairydonkey are. I'm going to stick my neck out, though, and say that their defence has been woeful, and that we have punished defensive mistakes very very sternly, which should see us win by 10 in front of a baying crowd.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you think the yips could be a factor?  I do which is why I think it will be a close game.  That being said if Wales can get an early try then it could be one way traffic.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Do you think the yips could be a factor? I do which is why I think it will be a close game. That being said if Wales can get an early try then it could be one way traffic.


 
Yes. They have been a factor in the WC, and in key games this championship. Us Taffies always get undone by the psychological element of the game. This creates one of the big variables in my prediction.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 14, 2012)

Can anyone, without the aid of a crack-pipe, understand what the fuck the graphs mean on this link?:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbyn...-to-wales-six-nations-success-91466-30537486/

Seriously, my head just fell off trying to work out what the fuck is going on.  I'm sure there's some sense in it but it is eluding me.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2012)

/tokes on crack pipe/

The red spikey bits at the top show the times Wales have outscored France in the second half of games since 2008. Blue spikey bits show that France have only succeeded in doing the same four times. Suggestion is that if we have parity at half time we are very likely to win. This is true, as far as it can be. HTH


----------



## The Boy (Mar 15, 2012)

i feel duty bound to point out that, according to my Chambers Dictionary, the plural of penis is penes.

In other news:

England by 8
Scotland by 10
Wales by 20.

You heard it here first


----------



## elfman (Mar 15, 2012)

Ireland by 3
France by 5
Scotland by 15

This is just a purely off the top of my head without thinking too much kind of prediction.


----------



## elfman (Mar 15, 2012)

On the England coaching question, it seems that it's not going to be the choice people think. Everyone is saying Lancaster or Mallett, but I think they're both going to get the job in some form. Whether it's Mallett getting the 'head coach' with Lancaster as an assistant or something similar to that I'm not sure. It just seems set up for that as the IRB are afraid to choose one coach incase they fuck it up as well as the current coaching set up being so small.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 15, 2012)

elfman said:


> France by 5
> .



Much obliged


----------



## elfman (Mar 15, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Much obliged


My predictions for this 6 nations have actually been pretty good


----------



## bendeus (Mar 15, 2012)

elfman said:


> My predictions for this 6 nations have actually been pretty good


 
Sorry. Bastard!


----------



## elfman (Mar 15, 2012)

elfman said:


> On the England coaching question, it seems that it's not going to be the choice people think. Everyone is saying Lancaster or Mallett, but I think they're both going to get the job in some form. Whether it's Mallett getting the 'head coach' with Lancaster as an assistant or something similar to that I'm not sure. It just seems set up for that as the IRB are afraid to choose one coach incase they fuck it up as well as the current coaching set up being so small.


I meant RFU not IRB


----------



## The Boy (Mar 15, 2012)

elfman said:


> France by 5


 
i see what you're trying to do there....


----------



## elfman (Mar 15, 2012)

The Boy said:


> i see what you're trying to do there....


 
What's that then?


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 15, 2012)

Agree that it'll be a close run thing but Wales ftw this weekend.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 15, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Agree that it'll be a close run thing but Wales ftw this weekend.


 
Its hard what to make of the recent record of this match. France have a good record at the Mill Stad only losing once but that just happens to be the last time Wales were going for the GS when, and lets be fair here, France got gubbed.

Also what does Parra have to do to get a start?


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 15, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Its hard what to make of the recent record of this match. France have a good record at the Mill Stad only losing once but that just happens to be the last time Wales were going for the GS when, and lets be fair here, France got gubbed.
> 
> Also what does Parra have to do to get a start?


 
I wouldn't be too concerned about past results at the Mill Stad. Wales's attack has been relatively nullified in recent games, I don't think the French will want to play with such an emphasis on defence as say England or Italy had done, and I don't think they'll be up to the task either. Beauxis starting is also a plus.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 15, 2012)

Tim Cymru:

Warburton back in. Rees at Hooker

Otherwise no changes. Charteris benched, and Ryan edges out Tipuric, who doesn't even get in the 22.

With the possible exception of Charteris as a starter, this is the strongest side we can field, IMO.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 15, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> I wouldn't be too concerned about past results at the Mill Stad. Wales's attack has been relatively nullified in recent games, I don't think the French will want to play with such an emphasis on defence as say England or Italy had done, and I don't think they'll be up to the task either. Beauxis starting is also a plus.


 
They've shifted Fofana to wing as well, right?

That's a shame, as he is as vulnerable in defence as he is commanding in attack.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 15, 2012)

has the france team been announced?
can't see it anywhere and don't want to give a prediction without knowing the parra/ trinh duc situation....


----------



## The Boy (Mar 15, 2012)

*France:* 15 Clement Poitrenaud, 14 Wesley Fofana, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Florian Fritz, 11 Alexis Palisson, 10 Lionel Beauxis, 9 Dimitri Yachvili, 8 Imanol Harinordoquy, 7 Julien Bonnaire, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yohann Maestri, 4 Pascal Pape, 3 David Attoub, 2 William Servat, 1 Jean-Baptiste Poux.
*Replacements:* 16 Dimitri Szarzewski, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Julien Pierre, 19 Louis Picamoles, 20 Morgan Parra, 21 François Trinh-Duc, 22 Jean-Marcellin Buttin.

My cheer at the players being called up during the week has been dulled by that selection.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 15, 2012)

ToT





bendeus said:


> /tokes on crack pipe/
> 
> The red spikey bits at the top show the times Wales have outscored France in the second half of games since 2008. Blue spikey bits show that France have only succeeded in doing the same four times. Suggestion is that if we have parity at half time we are very likely to win. This is true, as far as it can be. HTH



Don't get me wrong, I get the spikes and all that jazz, but what about the later tables? Confusing beyond words. 

Anyway, back to  the real guff, France were pulling many plonkers with their so-called back-row crisis. Not a bad looking set-up for them. Wales looking strong though. Couldn't get much more on pitch really. I do think France will tire in this game. Still bricking it though. Yachvili always has a good half against us. Still, we're the form team in many regards. Let's see a slam.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 15, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> ToT
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I get the spikes and all that jazz, but what about the later tables? Confusing beyond words.
> 
> Anyway, back to the real guff, France were pulling many plonkers with their so-called back-row crisis. Not a bad looking set-up for them. Wales looking strong though. Couldn't get much more on pitch really. I do think France will tire in this game. Still bricking it though. Yachvili always has a good half against us. Still, we're the form team in many regards. Let's see a slam.


 
Fucking hell! I only scrolled down as far as the spikes! In that case, haven't got a fucking clue: they were either created by a genius or a lunatic.

*walks away whistling*


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 15, 2012)

It ain't just me then. Head fuck or what? Wouldn't mind seeing Wales score 600 points in the second half on Saturday...


----------



## bendeus (Mar 16, 2012)

RIP Mervyn Davies. One of the true greats of the game. Played every test on the victorious '71 and 74' Lions series. Two 'slams, one as captain. As integral to the golden Wales sides of the '70s as Edwards, Bennett and JPR. A fucking wonderful, wonderful player.

Nos da, Merv


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> They've shifted Fofana to wing as well, right?
> 
> That's a shame, as he is as vulnerable in defence as he is commanding in attack.


 
You can see the thinking here, the thought of North and Robertson steaming in at him probabaly worried the shit out of the French.  Still, I can't help feeling he may not be as effective out on the wing.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> RIP Mervyn Davies. One of the true greats of the game. Played every test on the victorious '71 and 74' Lions series. Two 'slams, one as captain. As integral to the golden Wales sides of the '70s as Edwards, Bennett and JPR. A fucking wonderful, wonderful player.
> 
> Nos da, Merv


 
Yeah I just saw that, he was before my time but sheesh that is one hell of a record.  RIP.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 16, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah I just saw that, he was before my time but sheesh that is one hell of a record. RIP.


Would have been three 'slams and an extra Lions' tour were it not for his brain haemorrhage (while playing for Swansea) in '76.


----------



## 1927 (Mar 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> RIP Mervyn Davies. One of the true greats of the game. Played every test on the victorious '71 and 74' Lions series. Two 'slams, one as captain. As integral to the golden Wales sides of the '70s as Edwards, Bennett and JPR. A fucking wonderful, wonderful player.
> 
> Nos da, Merv


 
This feels like the second time! I remember being in Swansea in 1976(?) when we thought he had died on the field, but had in fact had a brain hemmorhage in a scrum.

RIP Merv the Swerv.

was famously told by his schoolmaster that he would never amount to anything as a rugby player, a sad sad loss.


----------



## The Boy (Mar 16, 2012)

Some stats provided from another BB:

Matches Played = 89
Welsh wins = 43
French wins = 43
Draws = 3
Points scored - France = 1,304
Points scored Wales = 1,305


----------



## 1927 (Mar 16, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Some stats provided from another BB:
> 
> Matches Played = 89
> Welsh wins = 43
> ...


 
it dont get closer than that!


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 16, 2012)

i got £14 on a draw at 25/1
i also put £10 on no try at 17/1
and £10 on wales for first Yellow card at 5/2  to cover them two bets if they dont come in


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 16, 2012)

5/2 for Wales to get the first yellow seems good odds given they have been collecting them like pannini stickers of late.  That being said Halfpenny's was very soft and Priestland's against England looked a bit soft.  Also Bradley Davies in the Irish match, that probably shouldnt have been a yellow either.........


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 16, 2012)

yeah i thought it was a safe bet, and covers my "out there" bets....

aslo i got a free £20 bet, so stuck it on Fance, so who ever wins ( as i had Wales for the tripple and grand slam ages ago ) i'm still up so to speak....

just hope we can do it tomorrow. ( or draw with no trys after Fance win the first half while we have one in the sin bin, cos i win £600 )


----------



## gabi (Mar 16, 2012)

Thoughts on this piece, welsh fans...?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/mar/15/six-nations-wales-giants

seems a case of damned if you dont, damned if you dont. achieve success with brute force a la NZ or play pretty rugby and lose by 10 points every time.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 16, 2012)

TLDRI


----------



## gabi (Mar 16, 2012)

basically just saying Gatland's brought in massive players who run in straight lines, at the expense of more traditionally skilful Welsh players along the lines of Shane and Henson.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 16, 2012)

gabi said:


> basically just saying Gatland's brought in massive players who run in straight lines, at the expense of more traditionally skilful Welsh players along the lines of Shane and Henson.


 
In that case i would tend to agree... I would also say we give the ball away to much when we have a team playing that can make good ground..... like last week against Italy


----------



## gabi (Mar 16, 2012)

I really can't wait for a NZ/Wales matchup. I'd put those two top in the world at the mo, playing a not dissimilar style of rugby. Would be a massive battle.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 16, 2012)

Watching old clips of the backs chucking the ball around like it was a hot spud seems like they are playing a different game.  The game these days seems to have more in common with League than with Union of the last few decades.


----------



## paulhackett (Mar 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> RIP Mervyn Davies. One of the true greats of the game. Played every test on the victorious '71 and 74' Lions series. Two 'slams, one as captain. As integral to the golden Wales sides of the '70s as Edwards, Bennett and JPR. A fucking wonderful, wonderful player.
> 
> Nos da, Merv


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 16, 2012)

gabi said:


> I really can't wait for a NZ/Wales matchup. I'd put those two top in the world at the mo, playing a not dissimilar style of rugby. Would be a massive battle.


 
I think, if we are being honest,' its the world cup final that we all wanted to see.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 16, 2012)

Won't be going down to Cardiff, but I will be supporting the under 20s in Parc Eirias tonight.


----------



## gabi (Mar 16, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> I think, if we are being honest,' its the world cup final that we all wanted to see.


 
Innit. I do believe the Welsh would've pipped the ABs too. By far a better side than the French, who themselves only lost by a point. Warburton must think about that tackle every single morning when he wakes up.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 16, 2012)




----------



## Teaboy (Mar 16, 2012)

I've just driven through Twickenham and Richmond there are george crosses and tri-colours everywhere.  What with the late kick off and it being patricks day its going to be mental tomorrow, you could almost see the fear in the eyes of bar staff.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 16, 2012)

gabi said:


> Thoughts on this piece, welsh fans...?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/mar/15/six-nations-wales-giants
> 
> seems a case of damned if you dont, damned if you dont. achieve success with brute force a la NZ or play pretty rugby and lose by 10 points every time.


 
No mention of George North, who has the skill to match his size. I'd agree that Roberts is very one dimensional though, as bendy has said could do with introducing someone like Ashley Beck to offer a different approach if plan A is not getting us anywhere.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 16, 2012)

Or (how could I forget) Scott Williams.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 16, 2012)

Love it.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 16, 2012)

We've gone and blown it now:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17403770

Every time we play for a person or a reason, we end up in an emotional mess and fuck it all up.

I'm going to ground.  See you Sunday!


----------



## bendeus (Mar 16, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Or (how could I forget) Scott Williams.


 
Like his fellow Turk, Jonathan Davies, Scott needs to learn to draw a man and pass. Those skills sets are sadly lacking.

You know who I'm going to suggest is the only playmaker in Wales _with _those skills sets, don't you?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 16, 2012)

frothingnio!


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 16, 2012)

yiz've gone and jinxed it!


----------



## bendeus (Mar 16, 2012)

We'll beat France tomorrow. That is all.


----------



## Perroquet (Mar 16, 2012)

some facts and figures..

wales v france: http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/mediazone/02/06/15/11/20120317walesfrance.pdf

england v ireland: http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/mediazone/02/06/15/09/20111503englandireland.pdf


----------



## ddraig (Mar 16, 2012)

shitloads of French supporters in town this afternoon, roaming in big packs with mostly matching shirts/jackets
even made one go 'merd!' when he saw my bike coming at him at the last second


----------



## 1927 (Mar 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Like his fellow Turk, Jonathan Davies, Scott needs to learn to draw a man and pass. Those skills sets are sadly lacking.
> 
> You know who I'm going to suggest is the only playmaker in Wales _with _those skills sets, don't you?


 You'd be right tho!


----------



## 1927 (Mar 16, 2012)

I had tickets sorted for tomorrow. My mate had them from his club.Last saturday a little worse for wear he left them behind the bar at club as he was going back on sunday. After he left the secretary gave them to the club sponsor!!!!

Not happy.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 16, 2012)

gabi said:


> I really can't wait for a NZ/Wales matchup. I'd put those two top in the world at the mo, playing a not dissimilar style of rugby. Would be a massive battle.


 
Aus are better than us. SA too, probably. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 16, 2012)

Fancy us to get a result tomorrow. Wales to win also - they can't fail to do it in front of that support.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 16, 2012)

The best moment of that '08 GS match. It was when I knew beyond doubt that we had broken them:


----------



## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

gabi said:


> Thoughts on this piece, welsh fans...?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/mar/15/six-nations-wales-giants
> 
> seems a case of damned if you dont, damned if you dont. achieve success with brute force a la NZ or play pretty rugby and lose by 10 points every time.


 
A few responses having read it:


We've got no obligation to play in any way whatsoever, and if he's fed up of watching us failing to play the type of basketball we played against Fiji in the RWC 2007 q/f then he can fuck off. We played the most conservative, turgid, defence-orientated rugby of the tournament in '08, which won us a 'slam, and have done since. In fact, we've only just started to break loose this season. 9 tries so far, with three against incredibly committed and organised defences, aren't a bad return, are they?
The thing about North and Cuthbert is that neither of them just do route one. Both seem to have good feet and deft hands
If he didn't notice, Italy, and to a lesser extent, England, set out their stall to absorb, stymie and frustrate. We made 92 tackles, missing 2, in the entire game against Italy. They made one, solitary line break all game. They were determined to avoid a spanking such as the one Ireland handed to them, and organised their gameplan accordingly. They had no intention of winning that game, IMO.
If Edwards and Bennett were playing today, they'd get smashed in defence. Professionalism has ushered in an irreversible change. Shane was a wonder precisely because he was an anachronism, as was Martyn Williams. We will never see their likes again. To suggest for a fucking second that we should be playing smaller, wilier players just because we're Wales is utterly, utterly farcical, and the worst kind of misty-eyed myopia. He's just sore because, by a strange shrug of the shoulders of the gene pool, Wales have a team of Bokke proportions, and he somehow feels that this is ill-befitting of our heritage. Fuck that, I'd prefer to win with giants than lose with midgets, ta.
Agree with him about Henson
He won't be whinging when those precise players and that precise coach win the series in Oz next year
His reading of Priestland betrays his utter lack of understanding of the game. He states that his 'functional role in this Welsh side is so far removed from that of the best-loved wearers of the No10 shirt, rugby's own lyric poets.  What a fucking bellend. Would that be the 'lyrical poetic' tradition of Wellies? Of Dan Biggar? Of Neil fucking Jenkins? Priestland can play the game on the gainline, but (when on form) can also cause havoc with ball in hand, and vary his game with accurate and lengthy kicking from hand. Lazy fucking journalism.
This:



> No doubt he is playing to instructions, but there is so little joy or creativity in what he does that he may as well be working in a tax office, which is not something you would ever say about Gavin Henson. And without those qualities, which traditionally provide a release from daily care, what is the point of Welsh rugby?


 
....is cuntery of the highest order. Priestland? Tax office? What is he expecting him to do, juggle a watermelon and an egg while popping the ball inside to Faletau? What a twat! The 'point' of Welsh rugby is to be relevant, modern and, above all, victorious. Sorry, mate, if we fail to live up to your vision of a plucky bunch of unfit, psychologically delayed midgets with chips on their shoulders and magic in their hands, who ultimately succumb to the tender ministrations of our betters and biggers. Fuck that, I'd prefer to tank my way to a 'slam, thanks.

E2A: Which is just a drawn-out version of what Gabi said. I feel dizzy!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 17, 2012)

kick....clap....kick...clap,,,,etc


rah! rah! rah!


kick...clap...kick...clap, repeat to fade....


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 17, 2012)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> kick....clap....kick...clap,,,,etc
> 
> 
> rah! rah! rah!
> ...


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/11/05/uk-rugby-australia-dog-idUKTRE6A40HN20101105


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 17, 2012)

bendy, I'll fell free to quote that whenever you bring up munnerball.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> kick....clap....kick...clap,,,,etc
> 
> 
> rah! rah! rah!
> ...


 
You've been following the six nations, then?


----------



## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> bendy, I'll fell free to quote that whenever you bring up munnerball.


 
C'mon, what Wales are doing tactically has nothing but nothing to do with Muhnnerball. For starters it's like we're vampires and they've strung the touchline with garlic. Most unMuhnnerlike.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/11/05/uk-rugby-australia-dog-idUKTRE6A40HN20101105


 
 

Dog fucking, bum thumbing, corridor shitting.


----------



## gabi (Mar 17, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Aus are better than us. SA too, probably. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.


 
I disagree, but it's difficult to tell as SH international rugby's not been in action for a little while due to the super 15. But Wales look head and shoulders above everyone up here. I reckon they'd take both SA and Oz, and push NZ, but let's see. that's the true test, and you well know it.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

gabi said:


> I disagree, but it's difficult to tell as SH international rugby's not been in action for a little while due to the super 15. But Wales look head and shoulders above everyone up here. I reckon they'd take both SA and Oz, and push NZ, but let's see. that's the true test, and you well know it.


 
Will you fucking stop it!


----------



## gabi (Mar 17, 2012)

You know the slam's yours tomorrow...

But it's the equivalent of the British destroying the indigenous populations of Australia and NZ with a combination of muskets, free blankets, disease and alcohol when they 'settled' there..... a soft target..

Your real challenge lies many months away


----------



## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

gabi said:


> You know the slam's yours tomorrow...
> 
> But it's the equivalent of the British destroying the indigenous populations of Australia and NZ with a combination of muskets, free blankets, disease and alcohol when they 'settled' there..... a soft target..
> 
> Your real challenge lies many months away


 
Yes. And it's a challenge that we consistently and doggedly fail to meet. 1957, 1999, 2008 were the last time we beat the three SH sides.

I agree with what you're saying, I'm just not sure I agree with our ability to finally shake the hoodoo.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

My last Merv article, honest:



> To this day I remember his starting brown leather shoes, scruffy jeans, magnificent Dell Boy sheepskin and that slightly sinister moustache. He chain smoked his way through the match and his heartfelt little speech to our team was book ended by spectacular coughing fits.
> He should have been French really. Not only was he the best No 8 that I have watched and admired for a short while Mervyn Davies was the epitome of ragged 70s cool.


 


> Eventually a massive Gala luncheon was organised to unveil the greatest team ever. A smiling Mervyn Davies was there among his many friends and colleagues, the life and the soul of the party.
> At one stage he moved shyly across, cigarette in hand naturally, and thanked me humbly for my small part in organising the proceedings and then proceeded to thanks 'us' profusely for selecting him as *the greatest ever Lions No 8*. He wasn't sure he deserved it but It had made him so happy and brought back so many memories.
> Extraordinary. Mervyn Davies let me tell you this as you take your leave far too early. You were the first name on the teamsheet. To be honest I'm not sure we got a single vote for anybody else


 
I hope people realise what has passed in Merv's departure from this world. He was one of, if not the, greatest 8s in history. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...-bravery-courage-skill-and-determination.html


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## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

And, of course, we're doing it for Merv tomorrow. Infidel Castro thinks it's bad. I, personally, am excited - there is no nation in the British Isles for whom the power of pathos is so strong. It will galvanise us. We will 'do it for Merv' tomorrow, and of that I have no doubt.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

Final words of encouragement from The Hoff

I feel a lot better, now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17408377


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## starfish (Mar 17, 2012)

I have a question. Do NH referees officiate in Super & Tri Nations games? Theyre on Sky so i dont see them so dont know.

RIP Merv The Swerve, slightly before my time but was aware of the impact you had on the game.


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## elfman (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm hoping to watch all the games live, but with the time difference and me supposedly going to some party tonight, I'm not sure it will happen.


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## Numbers (Mar 17, 2012)

I have a ticket for England vs Ireland today


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 17, 2012)

population of cardiff has doubled overnight apparently


----------



## gabi (Mar 17, 2012)

starfish said:


> I have a question. Do NH referees officiate in Super & Tri Nations games? Theyre on Sky so i dont see them so dont know.
> 
> RIP Merv The Swerve, slightly before my time but was aware of the impact you had on the game.


 
Nope. They use a pool from the SH.

It's about to expand into the quad-nations too btw (iirc). Argentina's coming in


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## bendeus (Mar 17, 2012)

ggggnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Can't. Take. The. Tension.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 17, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Lions after round 4. Still trying to pick on form.
> 
> 
> BENCH: Hook, Kearney, Ryan, _A second row_, *Ford*, Dickson, Paul James


 
lol Ross Ford.

This has been a woeful game.  Jim Hamilton enters virtually every ruck from the side and then the commentators whinge when he is carded.  Roll on Cardiff.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 17, 2012)

CMON CYMRU!!!


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 17, 2012)

*settles in* :cheers all:


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 17, 2012)

wind in the wrong direction again


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 17, 2012)

*bites fingernails*


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 17, 2012)

beauty


----------



## Pingu (Mar 17, 2012)

woo and a small helping of hoo so far.

entertaining game


----------



## felixthecat (Mar 17, 2012)

Bless you Cuffy you wee darlin'!

mwah from ma felix x


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 17, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (Mar 17, 2012)

W00t !!!

get ta fuck in!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 17, 2012)

Well done Wales, there were times in this 6N where you put in exceptional performances that I didn't think you had in you.


----------



## felixthecat (Mar 17, 2012)

Well done those fellas in red!!!!


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 17, 2012)

congrats becky and adam


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 17, 2012)

Yeeeeeeeeees!!!


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2012)

My lovely boys!


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## The Boy (Mar 17, 2012)

Can I be the first to make the now traditional 'worst GS winners EVAH!!!' comment? 

Anyway, congrats to the taffs.  Only team worthy of winning and it would have been a travesty had France knicked the try.  Funny.  But a travesty none the less.

No doubt will be a good night in Cardiff tonight.  Y'all have a pint of Brains for me etc.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Mar 17, 2012)

Well done Wales !!!


----------



## ddraig (Mar 17, 2012)

wooohooo
nailbiting and frustrating but done


----------



## The Boy (Mar 17, 2012)

Oh, and wooden spoon for Scotland?  Didn't see that coming.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 17, 2012)

Legends!


----------



## Supine (Mar 17, 2012)

Wish I still lived in Cardiff


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 17, 2012)

i like the way they called the players up: just like the post office


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 17, 2012)

That was nerve-wracking. Fantastic defence in the second half.


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 17, 2012)

Well done to the boyo's


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## ddraig (Mar 17, 2012)

Come on Ireland! 
do em


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Mar 17, 2012)

ddraig said:


> Come on Ireland!
> do em


Now then you *gives stern stare" 

The numbers on the England shirts are annoying me, they look they were stencilled on just before kick off - or boot off or whatever it's called in rugby


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## QueenOfGoths (Mar 17, 2012)

Whistle had gone, no try for me!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 17, 2012)

Getting mullered up front


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## sleaterkinney (Mar 17, 2012)

I've turned it off and gone over to Come Dine With Me. it's not been a good 6n for Ireland


----------



## Ponyutd (Mar 17, 2012)

ddraig said:


> Come on Ireland!
> do em


Have you turned over to Come Dine With Me as well?
Come on England.


----------



## Espresso (Mar 17, 2012)

I think Mr Lancaster's job is safe. More than we can say for Mr Kidney. Ireland have been complete and utter muck today.
Well done to Wales and as for you, Scotland - sort yourselves out.


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## editor (Mar 17, 2012)

That fucking prick Lawrence Dallagio doesn't think that Wales' battling performance to emerge as winners is the big news here: according to him, "England are the real story of the Six Nations."

Twat.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 17, 2012)

editor said:


> That fucking prick Lawrence Dallagio doesn't think that Wales' battling performance to emerge as winners is the big news here: according to him, "England are the real story of the Six Nations."
> 
> Twat.


I saw that. tbf that did come directly after England had frankly humiliated Ireland. England improved through the tournament and ended up the second-best team. Wales were the best team - but were expected to be. Let's face it, most of us were secretly hoping for (expecting even) a Grand Slam, weren't we.


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## felixthecat (Mar 17, 2012)

Some superb rugby this 6 Nations - I've throughly enjoyed almost every match I watched

Todays England v Ireland match which was probably the only match I lost interest in half way through.


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## 1927 (Mar 17, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I saw that. tbf that did come directly after England had frankly humiliated Ireland. England improved through the tournament and ended up the second-best team. Wales were the best team - but were expected to be. Let's face it, most of us were secretly hoping for (expecting even) a Grand Slam, weren't we.


 
That maybe, but I still think it was inceridbly out of order for him to still push Engalnd forward as the news of the tounie.

Drug dealing twat!


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## Limejuice (Mar 18, 2012)

I was at Twickenham yesterday. First half very muted for both sides. Second half was much better with the England pack doing some fantastic work.

I watched the Wales game crammed in a bar surrounded by Ireland and England supporters and the support for Wales was tangible.

I'd also say how friendly the atmosphere was. Opposing fans sharing tables and having a bloody good time. Didn't hear a single word of aggro despite the rivers of beer being drunk. Amazingly slick operation getting people out of the ground and onto the trains.

(Incidentally, all beer is £4.50 a pint at Twickenham and all surrounding pubs and bars. Coincidence, no?)


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## Ranbay (Mar 18, 2012)

Limejuice said:


> I was at Twickenham yesterday. First half very muted for both sides. Second half was much better with the England pack doing some fantastic work.
> 
> I watched the Wales game crammed in a bar surrounded by Ireland and England supporters and the support for Wales was tangible.
> 
> ...


 
Pint an pie in Cardiff is £6:60


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## trampie (Mar 18, 2012)

Wales Grand Slam Champions.


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## Ax^ (Mar 18, 2012)

bullshit it was £3.80 in the George
meh to the match
well done england

*goes back to dying of a hangover*


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## Infidel Castro (Mar 18, 2012)

Delivering on expectation was a foreign concept in Wales before this tournie. Now I genuinely believe Wales can kick on. One more mental barrier blown away. Looking forward to the Aus tour.

If we get quicker service at 9, some nice hands at 12 and some cover at 3, we might just threaten the top 3 regularly. Hell, we might even be top 3 ourselves. 

Never seen a team give so much.

My only fear now is Gats getting the Lions job and everything going wrong a la Henry. Please Gats, stay with us!

The fear I had before the game of emotion spoiling the team's approach proved unfounded. 

Final thoughts: RIP Merv and fack off to the fans who gobbed off during the silence. Oh, and enough of attempting a one-minute applause. Sometimes silence is better.


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## starfish (Mar 18, 2012)

gabi said:


> Nope. They use a pool from the SH.
> 
> It's about to expand into the quad-nations too btw (iirc). Argentina's coming in


 
So why do we keep using SH refs in the 6 Nations.

Anyway, well done Wales a deserved Grand Slam & a well earned Wooden Spoon for us.


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## 1927 (Mar 18, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Delivering on expectation was a foreign concept in Wales before this tournie. Now I genuinely believe Wales can kick on. One more mental barrier blown away. Looking forward to the Aus tour.
> 
> If we get quicker service at 9, some nice hands at 12 and some cover at 3, we might just threaten the top 3 regularly. Hell, we might even be top 3 ourselves.
> 
> ...


 
I think the 1 point defeat to SA was a big moment for us. We realised we are good enough to be up there and nearly did it. Its criminal that when the new rankings are announced tmrw we will still be behind England!!! WE can kick on from here, we have a team young enough to be around for ten years in some cases, I liked JPR's comments today that the most important man in the squad is Adam Jones. I didnt quite agree with his comments comparing this seasons squad with the squad of the 70s. he didnt think a single player of todays backline would get in the 70s team. If they were playing a 2012 game I suspect there wouldnt be a 70s player in sight, if they were playng a 70s game then we may still have got some in there, but I accept that Gareth Edwards would get in either team, although
 if we could pick a team of the last 40yrs to go to Australia in the summer I would have Rob Jones as my scrum half all day long!


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## 1927 (Mar 18, 2012)

starfish said:


> So why do we keep using SH refs in the 6 Nations.
> 
> Anyway, well done Wales a deserved Grand Slam & a well earned Wooden Spoon for us.


 
On yesterdays performance I think we can be thankful that Wales will never have to be refereed by Nigel owens!


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## badlands (Mar 18, 2012)

1927 said:


> if we could pick a team of the last 40yrs to go to Australia in the summer I would have Rob Jones as my scrum half all day long!


 
I think Terry Holmes would munch him


----------



## 1927 (Mar 18, 2012)

badlands said:


> I think Terry Holmes would munch him


 
Maybe, but we need a service and there was never anyone else better!


----------



## badlands (Mar 18, 2012)

1927 said:


> Maybe, but we need a service and there was never anyone else better!


 
No one threw a flatter, faster pass then Holmesy.

Back to yesterday tho,

As I said to Infidel y'day

Lydiate wasn't the MOM

he was better than that


----------



## 1927 (Mar 18, 2012)

badlands said:


> No one threw a flatter, faster pass then Holmesy.
> 
> Back to yesterday tho,
> 
> ...


 
Lydiate yesterday probaly had one of the best games ever by a welsh player, he was that good.
My old man has been watching welsh rugby since the 40s and he was gushing about Lyds performance yesterday.


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## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

1927 said:


> Lydiate yesterday probaly had one of the best games ever by a welsh player, he was that good.
> My old man has been watching welsh rugby since the 40s and he was gushing about Lyds performance yesterday.



Word. One of the best performances I have seen in a long time. Surely now in pole for the Lions jersey next year.


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## elfman (Mar 19, 2012)

Only managed to watch the England-Ireland game from this weekend but I have been thinking that over the whole 6 nations (even though it has been a good tournament overall) can any of the teams really think they performed _that_ well?

Yeh, Wales won the grandslam but I think they were far from having many complete team performances (haven't watched the France game yet though). They were the best team and there were some brilliant individual performances but I'm still not sure how much I rate them. I think part of this comes from when you play scrappy teams it's hard to show how good you are even if you win. After the summer we will see just how good the Wales team are.

England did better than most people expected but none of the teams played that well against them. Again there were good individual performances and some good team play in parts but there doesn't seem to much fluidity (which is to be expected at this stage with many new and young players).

Ireland were below par. I can't remember seeing them ever play as bad as they did against England. Without BOD and POC they seem lost. Unless they get another couple of leaders in that team I don't see them doing well in the run up to the next world cup (as that is what all the teams should be building for now).

France again seemed to have little in them. A new coach but not many new players coming in and even though he is a good coach he doesn't seem to of done anything new with the team. Usually France will have at least one really good game when they don't perform well but they didn't even have that.

Scotland played good in parts but seem nowhere near the big 4 in the competition. Some good players coming through but total lack of depth and good players in key positions. Obviously not getting a win is going to cause some changes to happen in their national set up.

Italy seemed to be their usual selves. Got the important one win but I've not seen much progress since they joined the 6N. Without Parisse they would be totally useless. Hopefully now they have clubs competing at a higher level things could change for them in the next few years.

So, I'm not sure where all the teams are just yet. I think we will find out a lot more this summer.


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## elfman (Mar 19, 2012)

My lions team after this 6 nations

15: Kearney
14: Bowe
13: Tuilagi
12: Roberts_._
11. North
10. Farrell
9. Dickson
8. Heaslip
7: Warburton
6: Lydiate
5: O'Connell
4: Gray
3: A Jones
2: Rees
1: Jenkins

Bench: Corbisiero, Hartley, AW Jones, Croft, Phillips, Priestland, Halfpenny.

11 Welsh
4 Irish
6 English
1 Scottish

A few of the places I'm not totally sure on but... I'll stick with it as a 1st attempt


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## 1927 (Mar 19, 2012)

elfman said:


> My lions team after this 6 nations
> 
> 15: Kearney
> 14: Bowe
> ...


 
I'll get my deckchair out and await Bendy's entrance!


----------



## gabi (Mar 19, 2012)

No Faletau? I thought he was brilliant throughout


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 19, 2012)

Ok well that was a fun weekend even if the rugby wasnt always of that high quality.

I've already said my piece on the Scottish game, it was trully dreadful.

The Welsh v France game was much better and was lit up by a fantastic solo try. Funnily enough I knew Wales were going to win after two things happened right at the start. Firstly France insisted on the roof staying open which meant they were just coming to spoil and be negative and then we had that absurd drop goal attempt from Beuxius (sp?) in the first minute from the halfway line. I know he's pinned them before but that shambles just set the tone for the French. When France actually played with the ball they looked dangerous, they just had a totally unsuitable game plan which the players clearly wernt buying into. France need a clear out and to start thinking about the next World Cup.

Wales outplayed France in virtually every area but whether it was nerves or the French having a better second half (as they have throughout the tournement) but the game went down to the wire, France had no business still being in contention. So well done to Wales, they were the best team this year and to go to Dublin and London and collect wins says it all. What most impressed me about this young Welsh team is their ability to close out tight games, a real winners mentality. Perhaps the biggest complement I can pay is to say that this is probably only the start of things, I think there is a lot more to come yet.

The England v Ireland game was a funny match littered with basic errors and individual madness. Dickson had a shocking game but he wasnt alone. I will leave it to the Irish fans to dissect what went wrong up front for them in the second half, I rate England's pack but they're not _that_ good. I find it hard to believe that would have happened if PoC was on the pitch.

All in all as an England fan I've been delighted with the way the 6N has gone all things considered. It was great to see an England team come together and play for each other and the shirt. The arrogance of former teams seems to have been left behind and they just got on with the game. Robshaw captained excellently, particuarly in his interaction with the refs which has been a major problem for us in the past; in many ways Robshaw sums up the new England team, loads of heart, solid technically and a lot of respect for the oppostion, but when all things considered probably not international class.

I don't know where Ireland go from here, are they on the fade or re-building? One thing for sure is that they need to find some good young forwards as a matter or urgency.

I think Scotland should get rid of Robinson the team have no self-belief and they have got used to losing, there were several moments (particuarly against England) when they should have won but they always seem to come out second. Whether it is tactics or whatever doesnt seem important they need a change at the top to re-boot the mentality and get some self-belief back. They are a better team then this.

Lastly I fear for Italy a lot, their forwards are getting old now and with the backs still unable to create what happens when the retirements kick in?

I'll have a think about my Lions 15 in a bit but I suspect it will be mostly made up of Welsh and Irish.


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## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

gabi said:


> No Faletau? I thought he was brilliant throughout


 
In the most unglamorous, grafting, non-glory seeking way. Faletau is a phenomenal player, though I am disappointed that he has lost his record of not having missed a tackle during his international career. He has now blotted his copybook with one, unfortunately.


----------



## elfman (Mar 19, 2012)

Fair point about Faletau. He can take Croft's place on the bench 

Also, I'm really not sure about scrum half or hooker...


----------



## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

elfman said:


> My lions team after this 6 nations
> 
> 15: Kearney
> 14: Bowe
> ...


 
Mostly rational but with a couple of bizarre choices, IMO. Some of the calls (1/2p vs. Kearney, Tuilagi vs. J. Davies, for example) are too tight to call and can often be influenced by your nationality and the style of rugby you favour.

The glaring one here for me is Heaslip. A very, very strange choice given the fact that this season he has consistently been the worst 8 in the tournament out of any of the competing nations. Right now I'd have Faletau, Denton and Morgan ahead of him, and if I was selecting I'd go for Faletau if, like you, I'm sticking with Warbs and Lydiate, because that's now a very solid backrow partnership.

As for Dickson at 9, well aside from his frankly poor performance in the Ireland game I can also see your reasoning. I'll tell you this right now, though. If Gatland coaches this Lions side the first name on that teamsheet will be Spikey. His defence, his ability to deal with messy, disrupted ball and his threat around the fringes are utterly central to the way Gatland likes his teams to play rugby. Gatland isn't into his backrow making hard yardage or big, marquee carries; he likes them to defend like fuck, contest the breakdown and go to ground and recycle ball quickly in contact (which is why Lydiate will get the nod over Ferris, IMO). Spikey is the ball carrying element of that backrow unit, if you see what I mean.

Gray at 4 is also fairly interesting. He was wonderful against Ireland and in patches against Wales, but he went missing on Saturday when what was needed was a big, grafting performance such as the type that Johnno or POC would put in. I just wonder whether or not he's as good at the dog as he is at the being massive, blonde and hanging about out wide. For me Ian Evans has put himself in contention. Another assured, unflashy but massively gutsy performance from a bloke whose resurrection has beenn almost Lazarus-like.

I think Best still deserves the shirt for overall performance over the competition, though M. Rees was improved against France. I also reckon that Ken Owens may well be first choice for Wales next season, so it could be him rather than Rees who goes.

Bench: Well, if he gets cited for biting Ferris as he should be, I'd hope that that utter cunt Hartley will be seeing out a long, long ban and will be nowhere near the bench. There's a few in contention for the backup 2 shirt - too tight to call ATM. You have no backup at 12 or 13, you have a showpony who can only play six as your backrow cover, and you have two props when you could have one who is capable of scrummaging on both sides. This is why I have consistently put Hook and Paul James/Matt Stevens in as my bench cover, because all of a sudden you're covering 1,3, 15, 13, 12 and 10 while taking up just two bench places. While I appreciate that both James and Stevens are not the best in their positions, they can both do a job, and particularly against the crim scrum. For the same reason I'd have Ryan on the bench instead of Croft and AWJ (cover for 4, 6 and 8) and, given the importance of a specialist openside against the Crims, I might even consider having a seven there, too. Failing that, another lock.

Bench: Ford, Dickson, 1/2p or Kearney, Hook, P. James or M. Stevens, R. Jones,  Tipuric/A. Lock


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## Infidel Castro (Mar 19, 2012)

Can we please stop posting Lions teams with Roberts ahead of JD2?  Had an amazing tournie. If people will insist on Tuilagi, we have to have someone other than Roberts. Either that or ditch Tuilagi. I still insist we need a more creative presence in the centres, for both Wales and Lions.

Re England, it'll be interesting to see how much what they achieved was down to New Coach Syndrome. I'd suggest their success was partially down to that, but in all fairness they've gelled very quickly. Always a good sign. 

Loved Ferris calling the English bad losers before the weekend. Pot/kettle, etc. Not a peep since being mullered.


----------



## elfman (Mar 19, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Mostly rational  blah blah blah


 
I didn't expect anything less that an in depth essay. 

Like i said beforeI would put Faletau in there instead of Croft and I'm not too sure about SH or Hooker. 

I wouldn't pick Hook in the squad at all. He's flexible but I don't trust him to come on in a tight game and not throw a pass that get's intercepted or fuck up a golden opportunity. I suppose if a centre was injured, Farrell could move out there.

Also, I thought I only had 1 prop on the bench? Agree at putting Stevens in on the bench as a prop though tbh


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 19, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Loved Ferris calling the English bad losers before the weekend. Pot/kettle, etc. Not a peep since being mullered.


 
That was quoted all out of context, he makes one slightly critical point in an otherwise very respectful interview and thats what gets the headlines.  Anyway what is wrong with being a bad loser?  I want players who hate losing in my team. PoC anyone?


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 19, 2012)

Right so my Lions 15 picked mainly on 6N form although a couple have slipped in through status alone, I've not bothered with subs because then we start talking about flexibility over quality. The problem is picking out who have been good players in poor teams and who have been made to look good because they were playing in a good team.

15 R. Kearney - 1/2p has had a great 6N and also v reliable kicker. I just think Kearney is more dynamic and solid under the high ball
14 T.Bowe - Although I am liking Cuthbert more and more with every game, also a shout for 1/2p on the wing as well
13 M. Tuilagi - Very dangerous both with or without the ball, shot in the head mind. J. Davies would also do a great job
12 J. Roberts - Sorry Castro he is a class act
11 G. North - Shoe-in, nothing more to say
10 J.Sexton - I'm still not sure about Priestland and I need a kicker. Farrell is no more than potential at the moment. It'd be interesting to see what Sexton could do with bigger men around him so he doesnt have to tackle himself into the ground
9 M.Phillips - I actually thought he had an indifferent game on Saturday, still the best scrum half on display though
8 T. Faletau - A fine player and a real nuisance at the breakdown, Heaslip would of course be on the plane
7 S. Warburton (capt) - Assuming he is fit of course
6 D. Lydiate - Player of the 6N for me
5 R. Gray - A tower at the lineout and a threat with the ball, he had a poor game on Saturday but he is still young and so did everyone else anyway
4 PoC - On status alone really, its hard to imagine him not being in the side.
3 A. Jones - Best tighthead in the world and the first name on the team sheet
2 R. Best - Another weak point (like #10), but on the whole Best just scrapes it. Ford was dreadful on Saturday and I just don't rate him and Hartly played well but appears to be a massive cock. Best did seem to disappear on Saturday when his team needed him, also he was part of a front row that was murdered, it wasnt all Court's fault
1 G. Jenkins - I really like Alex Corb but hes got a long way to go yet


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## Teaboy (Mar 19, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Bench: Well, if he gets cited for biting Ferris as he should be, I'd hope that that utter cunt Hartley will be seeing out a long, long ban and will be nowhere near the bench.


 
Just on this, whilst I don't disagree that biting should be stamped on and I have no reason to doubt the Irish players, has any evidence emerged at all?  I thought it was strange that with all the cameras around the BBC either didnt pick it up or strangly decided not to use the footage.


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## Ranbay (Mar 19, 2012)

1 

 Urban75   288





 2 

 Cleckheaton   264





 3 

 all the good ones are tak   229





 4 

 Read Fiction   164





 5 

 SteroidAbuse   155





 6 

 Bendys Bois 
0


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## Ranbay (Mar 19, 2012)

^ What do i win?


just off to pick up my Triple Crown and Grand slam wins from the bookies


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## Perroquet (Mar 19, 2012)

well done wales. a deserved grand slam.
and well done england.

a shocking end for ireland's 6N .
would've been a totally different game without that relentless english scrum, fair play to them.
new zealand in a couple of months couldn't be more daunting.

predictions for the june tours based on current form:

wales 1 out of 3
england 1 out of 3
scotland 1 out of 2
france 0 out of 2
ireland 0 out of 3


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## elfman (Mar 19, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> ^ What do i win?


 
Take your pick


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 19, 2012)

Gold cup, with wings please... thanks


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 19, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> That was quoted all out of context, he makes one slightly critical point in an otherwise very respectful interview and thats what gets the headlines.  Anyway what is wrong with being a bad loser?  I want players who hate losing in my team. PoC anyone?



Pah! It fits my narrow world view. I'm sticking to it!


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## elfman (Mar 19, 2012)

Here you go. Congratulations. With such skills you could be next in line for the Scotland job


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## gabi (Mar 19, 2012)

Gatland would be nuts to take this 'sabbatical' to manage the Lions that's been talked up. I'm sure he'll get well-paid etc but surely preparation for the next world cup should take precedence. He's got momentum - he's seriously gonna fuck it up by taking a year off?


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## 1927 (Mar 19, 2012)

If Gatland is the Lions coach odnt expect him to pick a team that is politically correct for the first test. This is the man who in his first Welsh team named 13 Ospreys. If he think sthye deserve it there'll be 13 Wales players lining up in the tests, no token Englishman/scotsman/irishman etc jusst to appease!


----------



## 1927 (Mar 19, 2012)

gabi said:


> Gatland would be nuts to take this 'sabbatical' to manage the Lions that's been talked up. I'm sure he'll get well-paid etc but surely preparation for the next world cup should take precedence. He's got momentum - he's seriously gonna fuck it up by taking a year off?


 
My other probkem with him taking on the Lions would be that he will have to show his hand in terms of coaching techniques and motivation which may well assist the otehr home countries!


----------



## gabi (Mar 19, 2012)

Presumably he'll also take Edwards with him as assistant?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 19, 2012)

and the fail online story?
about the mess and carnage on the streets of Cardiff 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116670/Grand-slammed-Carnage-streets-Cardiff-Wales-parties-celebrate-rugby-teams-big-win.html
not justifying it btw! and it is like that on the weekends quite often


----------



## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

elfman said:


> Yeh, Wales won the grandslam but I think they were far from having many complete team performances (haven't watched the France game yet though). They were the best team and there were some brilliant individual performances but I'm still not sure how much I rate them. I think part of this comes from when you play scrappy teams it's hard to show how good you are even if you win. After the summer we will see just how good the Wales team are.


 
One thing I'd say here is that Ireland, the only team who came to play rugby against Wales, got three tries stuck on them in a thriller. All the other sides, France and England included, came to lock it down, defend like fuck and attempt to dog it out up front. Nobody was willing to play high risk rugby against us, all committed few to the ruck, fanned out across the field and tried to bash it up or kick the leather out of the ball hoping for a mistake. It's pretty hard to play champagne rugby against that kind of concerted effort to spoil, slow down and disrupt. But yeah, summer will tell us a lot. 



> England did better than most people expected but none of the teams played that well against them. Again there were good individual performances and some good team play in parts but there doesn't seem to much fluidity (which is to be expected at this stage with many new and young players).


 
They didn't let teams play well against them. Absolute bloody-minded, collective Englishness of the first stripe. We'll see how it all pans out next year when teams have worked them, and Farrell, out a bit more. If they want fluidity they need to teach ManuSamoa to pass so as to release their ball-in-hand runners.



> Ireland were below par. I can't remember seeing them ever play as bad as they did against England. Without BOD and POC they seem lost. Unless they get another couple of leaders in that team I don't see them doing well in the run up to the next world cup (as that is what all the teams should be building for now).


 
Ireland are looking every inch a team on the decline ATM. Paper thin cover in key positions doesn't help. It has to be said, though, that Corbisiero was scrummaging illegally all game. It was this that won them the game, IMO. Little else separated the two sides.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

gabi said:


> Gatland would be nuts to take this 'sabbatical' to manage the Lions that's been talked up. I'm sure he'll get well-paid etc but surely preparation for the next world cup should take precedence. He's got momentum - he's seriously gonna fuck it up by taking a year off?


 
It's his. End of.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Right so my Lions 15 picked mainly on 6N form although a couple have slipped in through status alone, I've not bothered with subs because then we start talking about flexibility over quality. The problem is picking out who have been good players in poor teams and who have been made to look good because they were playing in a good team.
> 
> 15 R. Kearney - 1/2p has had a great 6N and also v reliable kicker. I just think Kearney is more dynamic and solid under the high ball
> 14 T.Bowe - Although I am liking Cuthbert more and more with every game, also a shout for 1/2p on the wing as well
> ...


 
A very respectable pick, I thought, until I came to 10. What in the name of god has Sexton done this season, or any other, to merit being picked as a test starter to represent the cream British and Irish rugby? Farrell has done more at international level in a 10 shirt than Sexton has managed over numerous seasons.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

OK, and my Lions team (including the injured)

*1. Jenkins* (one of the greatest looseheads of the modern game. Hadn't played for months prior to the 6N but still worked tirelessly at tackle and breakdown)
*2. Best* (Keeps his shirt just due to some bullocking runs and decent support play. Darts letting him down. A position of weakness for the Lions)
*3. A. Jones* (Being pushed by Cole, who is improving, but still one of the top three scrummaging tightheads in world rugby - will eat the Crims up)
*4. POC* (Incredible stats this 6N. Tackles, carries, rucks hit, lineout takes and steals. POC is still the real deal, and gives a wonderful post match interview)
*5. I. Evans* (Lazarus himself. Performance after performance. Gutsy, determined, understated. A revelation this season.)
*6. Lydiate* (Pushed all the way by Ferris, but two MoM's do it - he should be selected as player of the tournament on Wednesday. A phenomenon)
*8. Faletau* (Pushed all the way by Denton and, increasingly, Morgan, but his tackle and carry stats continue to speak for themselves. Another true grafter)
*7. Warburton* (c) (Best out-and-out 7 in the NH. End of)
*9. Spikey *(First name on Gatland's teamsheet. Still shines out as the best B&I scrum half. Massive commitment and physicality)
*10. Farrell. *(Has put his hand up after some indifferent performances from Priestland, but will be pushed close when the tour comes)
*11. North. *(A colossus. Little more need be said)
*12. J. Roberts *(A quiet 6N - played half of it on one leg, and little competitive rugby since early November, IIRC. It showed, but still the same commitment. He will be needed to reprise his legendary centre pairing with.....)
*13. BOD (*A final swansong for the old warhorse. He can still bring stuff to the party that Tuilagi and J. Davies can't. Above all work at the breakdown and ability to play the perfect foil to the brute force of Roberts. You know you all want to see it again!)
*14. Bowe *(I'm a massive fan of Tommy, who  for all that he has been a little lacklusture this 6N has still run in 4 tries. Being pushed all the way by Cuthbert, though)
*15. Halfpenny. *More solid in the first up tackle than Kearney, and that siege gun boot can keep the scoreboard ticking over from 50m, which keeps teams honest even round the halfway line. Runs great lines, and elusive with ball in hand. Needs to improve under the high ball if he is to nick this place of Kearney, who is neck and neck with him.

*Bench: *Ryan, M. Stevens, A.N other hooker, Dickson, Gray, Hook, Kearney

Might be a bit, erm, Welsh, for the tastes of some


----------



## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

elfman said:


> I didn't expect anything less that an in depth essay.


 





> I wouldn't pick Hook in the squad at all. He's flexible but I don't trust him to come on in a tight game and not throw a pass that get's intercepted or fuck up a golden opportunity. I suppose if a centre was injured, Farrell could move out there.


 

Hadn't thought of that - guess you could be onto something there. Agreed that Hook has brainfart written all over him.



> Also, I thought I only had 1 prop on the bench? Agree at putting Stevens in on the bench as a prop though tbh


 
Sorry, read 'Croft' as 'Cole' for some reason. Can Cole switch to loosie, 'cos if he can, there's your answer. Stevens is a shadow of the player he was before the coke ban. P. James is a better scrummager who can also go on both sides.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Just on this, whilst I don't disagree that biting should be stamped on and I have no reason to doubt the Irish players, has any evidence emerged at all? I thought it was strange that with all the cameras around the BBC either didnt pick it up or strangly decided not to use the footage.


 
He's been cited: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2117297/Dylan-Hartley-cited-alleged-biting.html

There's footage of the ruck where it happened, which certainly seems to see him digging around in a rather odd way. I'd imagine that there are other camera angles that have been brought into play, and that they may well have captured the incident.

If true, I sincerely hope that it's his international career over. Double gouging and then biting opponents is inexcusable. What a fucking cunt.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 19, 2012)

> 15. Halfpenny


 Nah, not having that. Kearny is as solid as they come.



> Ireland are looking every inch a team on the decline ATM. Paper thin cover in key positions doesn't help.


All those saffa props aren't helping us. But the coach has to go. Bringing on RoG and ToL in the England game was nuts. We're less than the sum of our parts at the moment, watch the same players in the HC.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Nah, not having that. Kearny is as solid as they come.


 
I have no axe to grind here, but he was at fault - directly - for North's try, Gray's try and one of the French ones, too.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 19, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Nah, not having that. Kearny is as solid as they come.
> 
> All those saffa props aren't helping us. But the coach has to go. Bringing on RoG and ToL in the England game was nuts. We're less than the sum of our parts at the moment, watch the same players in the HC.


 
BTW, Sleater, what's the reading on the bitterometer? Was it an immoral slam, or merely an unprincipled one?


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 20, 2012)

bendeus said:


> One thing I'd say here is that Ireland, the only team who came to play rugby against Wales, got three tries stuck on them in a thriller. All the other sides, France and England included, came to lock it down, defend like fuck and attempt to dog it out up front. Nobody was willing to play high risk rugby against us, all committed few to the ruck, fanned out across the field and tried to bash it up or kick the leather out of the ball hoping for a mistake. It's pretty hard to play champagne rugby against that kind of concerted effort to spoil, slow down and disrupt. But yeah, summer will
> tell us a lot.



Summer will tell us a hell of a lot, particularly when you consider the approach Australia have had to playing Wales over the last 5 or so meetings. They have attempted to hit us with fast, elusive, off-loading rugby to open a lead before absorbing our attacks for the rest if the game. With their pack far from the walkover it was a few years ago, they would put a bit more faith in the set-piece too. However, if we take as close as damn it to a full strength 8, Australia will be very worried. Also, given the new-found mental strength of this Welsh team and it's incredible fitness and defence, the old tactics they have employed against us will need changing. That's not to say Wales might not be vulnerable to the tactics in the first game, given the inevitable time we take to adapt to the tempo of SH rugby.

Looking forward to one win from 3 personally. A mark of progress. But if indeed we do get one win, a second would be more likely. So one win for me, two if everything goes very, very well.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 20, 2012)

ddraig said:


> and the fail online story?
> about the mess and carnage on the streets of Cardiff
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116670/Grand-slammed-Carnage-streets-Cardiff-Wales-parties-celebrate-rugby-teams-big-win.html
> not justifying it btw! and it is like that on the weekends quite often


 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/gallery/gallery-e6frewxi-1225793097672?page=1


----------



## flypanam (Mar 20, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> All those saffa props aren't helping us. But the coach has to go. Bringing on RoG and ToL in the England game was nuts. We're less than the sum of our parts at the moment, watch the same players in the HC.


 
Its not a crisis a la 2008 but its a worrying time for Ireland,. I think Kidney took a gamble and it failed, I think he should consider his position or change his priorities. His mantra of the next game is the most important is clearly not producing a long term strategy. How he could think that a player lets call him Gordon D'Arcy could play himself into some form is the stuff of saturday morning schools matches. And Idiotic. However apart from the tighthead, the problems at (Scrum half/Outside half) are managable. 

We have players who can fill those roles and Kidney will have to change a habit of a life time and start picking on form for the NZ tour. We will be in dire straits if Kidney takes David Wallace to NZ instead of Dominic Ryan as replacement for O'Mahony who needs a full run at openside. Ditto if Paul Marshall does not get on that plane or Jamie Hagen/Luke Fitz.

The biggest danger is if the buffons at the IRFU get their way and we get rid of our much smaller foreign player base and our own young players don't a chance to learn from players like BJ or John Afoa.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 20, 2012)

I didn't see any of the games post France Ireland but i did get to see a lot of Ice hockey. If this rugby and bowls fever dies out I may just have found my new sport.

for the record well done Wales well deserved.


----------



## gabi (Mar 20, 2012)

I hate to say it, but Ireland are on a hiding to nothing going down to NZ. Chances of them even winning a midweek game?


----------



## flypanam (Mar 20, 2012)

Gabi at the moment I'd say none whatsoever. The only thing I can hope for is the team loses some baggage and some young eager players got picked and in doing so we run NZ close losing by <10 each game.


----------



## gabi (Mar 20, 2012)

I agree. Might as well throw a few younguns at the deep end. Probably the toughest tour of them all.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 20, 2012)

Given how superior NZ are, this is now a development tour. Joy.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 21, 2012)

As expected, Lydiate gets player of the tournament. Somewhat astonishingly, Sexton is runner up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17453529


----------



## bendeus (Mar 21, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Given how superior NZ are, this is now a development tour. Joy.


Development tours to NZ are never going to end well. Shatter the confidence and self-belief of the noobs, injure a few key players and rack up a couple of embarrassing scores against you. Not the best, really.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> As expected, Lydiate gets player of the tournament. Somewhat astonishingly, Sexton is runner up:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17453529



I know the criteria was based around MoM shit, but that runner-up spot for Sexton boggles the fucking mind.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 21, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> I know the criteria was based around MoM shit, but that runner-up spot for Sexton boggles the fucking mind.


 
Sleater must've had a _really_ sore mouse finger after that sleepless night of voting

But in all seriousness, off hand from that shortlist I'd have named Harinordoquy, Denton, Rennie and Ryan ahead of him, and that's if I was feeling generous to him. Strange.


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Mar 22, 2012)

bendeus said:


> It has to be said, though, that Corbisiero was scrummaging illegally all game.


 
You mean like Adam Jones was in the england/wales game?


----------



## bendeus (Mar 22, 2012)

DaRealSpoon said:


> You mean like Adam Jones was in the england/wales game?



Wash your mouth out, sir!


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Mar 22, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Wash your mouth out, sir!


 
the truth hurts doesn't it buddy... truth hurts


----------



## bendeus (Mar 24, 2012)

And so it begins.............



> Winning a Grand Slam is never easy, even in a year *which no-one could ever claim to be a vintage one*


 


> England’s performance _was_ at least worthy of serious consideration as _the_ single most gob-smacking element of the Six Nations


 
http://www.rugbyrugby.com/news/feat...nyone_but_england____brigade_are_at_it_again?







That's the non-vintage nature of the 'slam out of the way, and Lol has reminded us that England were the biggest story of the competition, but what about the immorality? I'm hoping that that Cardinal who suggested gay marriage was grotesque will weigh in to put the final deity-inspired seal of disapproval on Wales' win in Dublin, and then my prediction will have come to pass.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 24, 2012)

He's a dick. I was excusing him a bit for that comment in that it did come after an utterly convincing England win, but no, he's stuck by it.

But it's something of a backhanded compliment too. 'Look, there's no way we were ever going to compete with Wales, but we grabbed second!'

It also shows that the man is a dullard.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 24, 2012)

It's just all so predictable. It happens every time we achieve something.

While the majority of pundits from all sides are respectful and balanced, there are always some dicks who seek to devalue a 'slam because it's not England who won it.

That Dallaglio is their chief cheerleader is no surprise to me.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 24, 2012)

the orcs just can't hack it


----------



## elfman (Mar 24, 2012)

While Dallaglio was a good player, he's always been a dickhead. I wish he's never of gotten in to being a rugby pundit cos he annoys the fuck out of me 

Same for a lot of other players though i.e. they should just stay out of the media.

For every Jonathan Davies there seems to be an Austin Healey


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 24, 2012)

Dan Parks. For fuck's sake. Enjoyed what I've seen of the Blues v Scarlets, but won't Parks please just fuck the fuck off?


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 24, 2012)

And Lol is a cunt.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 24, 2012)

bendeus said:


> And so it begins.............
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The way I see it is this: we won the Grand Slam. We've won it thrice in an 8yr window. If anyone wants to try to devalue this particular one, let them: we won the Grand Slam. 

Lol is still a cunt though.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 28, 2012)

bendeus said:


> He's been cited: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2117297/Dylan-Hartley-cited-alleged-biting.html
> 
> There's footage of the ruck where it happened, which certainly seems to see him digging around in a rather odd way. I'd imagine that there are other camera angles that have been brought into play, and that they may well have captured the incident.
> 
> If true, I sincerely hope that it's his international career over. Double gouging and then biting opponents is inexcusable. What a fucking cunt.


 

Ok I really don't understand the decision yesterday:

*Hartley Banned for 8 Weeks -* http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17527026

The penalty for a biting incident is a minimum of 12 weeks and a maximum of 4 years, if he did bite Ferris (and given his disciplinery record) it should have been a far longer ban.  This just smacks of 'we know you did it but don't have enough proof, so we'll give you a short ban and hope you don't appeal and thats the end of it'.

He either did it or he didnt and if he did then it should have been a lengthy ban, this sort of fudge just damages the game.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 28, 2012)

Does it threaten his chance of the tour to SA?


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 28, 2012)

Conveniently not, just the rest of the domestic season. It seems quite clear to me that they havent got the incident on camera so all they have is Ferris's word and an injury which fits the bill. They know he _probably_ has done it but the evidence is a bit shakey so its a neither here nor there fudge.   He should have had a long ban or none at all.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 28, 2012)

Well Hartley has a rep, which probably contributed to said punishment. Having said that your right if they had TV edidence it would have been a lot more. He's a luck hungry hippo.


----------



## gabi (Mar 28, 2012)

tbf to hartley, anyone who's played rugby at a reasonable level knows that its very easy to bite someone accidentally in the heat of a ruck (where presumably this occurred, not seen the footage)


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Mar 28, 2012)

Maybe, I'm not sure it's all that easy of an accident to make. The few times it happened to me or anyone else I played with... To be honest it was never that brutal, and not something you ever complained about that much. Not in the same league as eye-gouging.

As much as Hartley is a nob and certainly has a reputation I actually think he shouldn't be banned (unless he's admitted it). The evidence is circumstantial, and I think if they go down a route of banning players based on hearsay then thats going to be even worse for rugby.

If it can be categorically proved then the bans should be heavy, very heavy. Iv seen the footage once in slo-mo and am not sure either way. Surely benefit of the doubt has to go with 'not' banning players.


----------



## gabi (Mar 28, 2012)

Were you a forward? I used to play lock - when you're deep in the ruck the mouth can easily open and close with the pressure upon you....

He is a prick though, even Gatland thinks so, not a man unfamiliar with being a bit a prick himself.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 28, 2012)

In his defense he's not Epi Tione. Who tried to chow down on Dennis Leamy when playing for Sale. Got an 18 week ban.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 28, 2012)

I can't see bendy being impressed by this ruling.  No doubt the 'independent panel' was packed full of cheating English scum, not that Hartley is English etc.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 28, 2012)

I'd say Bendy is still swallowing the Brains after reaching 'The pinnacle of European Rugby' give him a week or so he'll go back to utter frothing at mere mention of the back to back grand slams.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 29, 2012)

another deluded engrish knob 





http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17524615



> Mr Adam, who is a psychology student at the University of Glamorgan in Treforest, Pontypridd, said the tattoo "looks nice".
> "It's just a shame I'm English. It would be a great tattoo for a Welshman," he added.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 29, 2012)

I saw that, why the fuck would you go through with it? Fucking idiot.


----------



## The Boy (Mar 29, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> I saw that, why the fuck would you go through with it? Fucking idiot.


 
Not quite as bad as the Welshman who bet that he'd cut his own balls of if Wales won the GS in 2005/2008.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 29, 2012)

He cut one off each year??? I knew some bloke did this in 2005 didn't know he chopped the other one off in 2008. What went this time? The shaft?


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 29, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Not quite as bad as the Welshman who bet that he'd cut his own balls of if Wales won the GS in 2005/2008.


 
Indeed not! Wonder what he cut off this year?


----------



## The Boy (Mar 29, 2012)

flypanam said:


> He cut one off each year??? I knew some bloke did this in 2005 didn't know he chopped the other one off in 2008. What went this time? The shaft?


 
I meant 2005 OR 2008.  Not 2005 AND 2008.

Damn me and my inability to express myself cogently on a BB .


----------



## flypanam (Mar 29, 2012)

The Boy said:


> I meant 2005 OR 2008. Not 2005 AND 2008.
> 
> Damn me and my inability to express myself cogently on a BB .


 
Not at all it's my reading thats at fault but it does make a better story that he chops a nut off each GS.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 29, 2012)

ddraig said:


> another deluded engrish knob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Its not the worst thing a rugby fan at a Welsh uni has done recently.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 30, 2012)

This thread has gone to shit without Bendy.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Mar 30, 2012)

I swear I just saw mattie in the Cymru/Wales forum.  he was asking after places on Anglesey.  I miss him.   Sound feller.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 31, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> This thread has gone to shit without Bendy.


 
The thread has gone to shit without the 6 nations.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> I can't see bendy being impressed by this ruling


 
I think it's all a bit strange. He fucking _admitted _biting Ferris, and even with the type of Peter Sutcliffe-esque previous that he has, he got a ban at lower than the minimum tariff.

He is pleading mitigation insomuch as he feels that he reacted to provocation by Ferris. He is claiming that Ferris was trying to clear him out of a ruck by his neck, and was 'fish hooking' him; something I had never heard of until this incident, but apparently involves hooking your finger between someone's teeth and cheek and pulling like fuck. Ow!

Clearly the panel believed this version of events, and although he is an egregious, odious cunt, felt Hartley was, to a degree, justified in his actions. Some reports are stating that Ferris has admitted having his finger in Hartley's mouth, though I don't have any corroboration.







Now I don't know about the fish hooking bit, but from the footage it is clear that Ferris _did _try to clear him out by the neck. This, to me, is dangerous play, and a particular brand of dangerous play that seems to be almost exclusively employed by the Irish. I wonder when the fuck tackling players by the neck became legal in the wibbly world of the IRB, particularly given that the deeply unpleasant choke tackle usually involves one player pulling down on someone's feet, while at the same time another player pulls up by the head. Someone is going to get badly injured as a result of this type of play, and if Hartley bit Ferris in response to having been pulled about by the head, then I, too, can see a degree of mitigation that the disciplinary board appear to have spotted, too.



> No doubt the 'independent panel' was packed full of cheating English scum, not that Hartley is English etc.


 
I've never called the English scum. I may have used the word to describe a player - Hartley maybe - but I won't be labelled as someone who'd use that type of language to describe the old enemy. Thanks


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 31, 2012)

> Now I don't know about the fish hooking bit, but from the footage it is clear that Ferris _did _try to clear him out by the neck. This, to me, is dangerous play, and a particular brand of dangerous play that seems to be almost exclusively employed by the Irish.


ffs


----------



## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> I swear I just saw mattie in the Cymru/Wales forum. he was asking after places on Anglesey. I miss him. Sound feller.


 
He still lurks. I PM'd him a while back to try to persuade him to return but, alas, he didn't feel he wanted to.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 31, 2012)

Hartley has previous for biting


----------



## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> ffs


 
Going to bother looking at the footage?


----------



## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Hartley has previous for biting




He's a hideous wanker. However, Ferris has admitted having his finger in his mouth (I think), and clearly tried to clear him out by twisting the head and neck.



> It is understood Ferris admitted he had his finger inside Hartley’s mouth and the England hooker may well have gagged before biting to be released.


Not the best source, but from here


----------



## 1927 (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Hartley has previous for biting




And we all start posting evidence of the irish previous for shenanigans in the ruck we could be here a very long time!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 31, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Going to bother looking at the footage?


He didn't go for the neck or the head and your attempt to link it with choke tackling is the latest in a long line of bollocks you've come out with, on a par with that spike tackle rubbish.


----------



## 1927 (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> He didn't go for the neck or the head and your attempt to link it with choke tackling is the latest in a long line of bollocks you've come out with, on a par with that spike tackle rubbish.


 
If there was vote for who spoke the most bollocks on this thread I think I can safely say bendy would be no where near top of the betting, but you my friend may well be.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 31, 2012)

1927 said:


> If there was vote for who spoke the most bollocks on this thread I think I can safely say bendy would be no where near top of the betting, but you my friend may well be.


Well there's plenty of one-eyed taffs, so that well might be the case.


----------



## 1927 (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Well there's plenty of one-eyed taffs, so that well might be the case.


 
pot kettle black x 1000


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## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> He didn't go for the neck or the head and your attempt to link it with choke tackling is the latest in a long line of bollocks you've come out with, on a par with that spike tackle rubbish.


 
Sleater, he is pulling Hartley out of that ruck by the head and neck, and twisting his body as he does so. Do you deny that this is what happens in the footage, and do you not think it to be dangerous?

Do you think that if one player (usually a second row) pulls upwards on a player's head while another, equally massive player, or players, pulls downwards on their legs and feet that it is not dangerous? If not, how the fuck do you arrive at that conclusion? Rugby's laws are supposed to protect players against tackling round the neck, so why do the Irish seem to have special dispensation?


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## sleaterkinney (Mar 31, 2012)

1927 said:


> And we all start posting evidence of the irish previous for shenanigans in the ruck we could be here a very long time!


You see this is what you're about - you don't want to comment on what I posted, you just have a little childish dig back at my team, same as bendy


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## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> You see this is what you're about - you don't want to comment on what I posted, you just have a little childish dig back at my team, same as bendy


 
Sorry, what's childish about it? I'm dealing in facts here.


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## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

Oh, and what is 'bollox' wrt what I have previously said about tip tackles? I think I've been pretty balanced.


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## sleaterkinney (Mar 31, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Sleater, he is pulling Hartley out of that ruck by the head and neck, and twisting his body as he does so. Do you deny that this is what happens in the footage, and do you not think it to be dangerous?


I can't see that clearly, no.


bendeus said:


> Do you think that if one player (usually a second row) pulls upwards on a player's head while another, equally massive player, or players, pulls downwards on their legs and feet that it is not dangerous? If not, how the fuck do you arrive at that conclusion? Rugby's laws are supposed to protect players against tackling round the neck, so why do the Irish seem to have special dispensation?


You are massively misrepresenting what a choke tackle is.


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## sleaterkinney (Mar 31, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Oh, and what is 'bollox' wrt what I have previously said about tip tackles? I think I've been pretty balanced.


If a massive chip on both your shoulders is your idea of "balance", yeah


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## sleaterkinney (Mar 31, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Sorry, what's childish about it? I'm dealing in facts here.


childish was more of a comment on 1927.


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## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I can't see that clearly, no.


 
Then you're not looking properly, fella.



> You are massively misrepresenting what a choke tackle is


 
Genuinely, how so?


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## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> If a massive chip on both your shoulders is your idea of "balance", yeah


 
I'd say my pronouncements on Warburton were pretty balanced, as was my position on Bradley. I'd say that my take on Ferris' tip was correct according to the badly interpreted and communicated letter of the law laid down by the IRB, and by the same token, if that was a tip then so was the double tackle on Fussell that we got all hot and bothered about a while back.

I don't have a chip on my shoulders, but I do think that both Munster and Ireland are pretty dirty teams, yes.


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## 1927 (Mar 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> You see this is what you're about - you don't want to comment on what I posted, you just have a little childish dig back at my team, same as bendy


 
Nothing childish about it. ireland have a rep for being dirty on the floor, fact.


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## Infidel Castro (Mar 31, 2012)

Well done boys, the thread is rejuvenated


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## bendeus (Mar 31, 2012)

Infidel Castro said:


> Well done boys, the thread is rejuvenated



You can fuck off as well


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## bendeus (Apr 1, 2012)

Here's the full report on the Hartley incident. It makes for very interesting reading.

For the record, it clearly indicates that Ferris did not admit to his fingers being in Hartley's mouth, but he does acknowledge grabbing Hartley's neck and twisting his head, while at the same time trapping his arm.

Hartley is insisting he was being fish hooked, basically. If his version of events is in any way correct, then you can pretty much understand the biting. I suppose the panel leant more towards this version than Ferris'. Further to that I guess it will remain something of a mystery.


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## gabi (Apr 2, 2012)

Hartley was almost made England captain according to today's papers 

I guess that might be along the lines of the old HR practice of making the worst employee at a firm 'Employee of the Month' in order to motivate them. Not that Hartley's a bad player, quite the opposite, but he does seem to a prick of the highest order. Not sure I'd want him captaining my country.


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## elfman (Apr 2, 2012)

I'm not defending Hartley at all but I think fans don't always get to see player's true personalities. He may well be a prick but you only see glimpses of who he really is. Just like any other player.


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## flypanam (Apr 2, 2012)

A number of remarks about Ireland being durty. Maybe we are, but then again every rugby team has an element of dirt about them. From RL Wigan team who 'Hunt in packs' and 'Attack the joints' to New Zealand's bag of tricks everyone does it, in order to win. The real problem is if its part of team policy.


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## Teaboy (Apr 2, 2012)

gabi said:


> Hartley was almost made England captain according to today's papers
> 
> I guess that might be along the lines of the old HR practice of making the worst employee at a firm 'Employee of the Month' in order to motivate them. Not that Hartley's a bad player, quite the opposite, but he does seem to a prick of the highest order. Not sure I'd want him captaining my country.


 
Yeah apparently it was part of Rowntree's statement to the citing panel thingy.  Given that they eventually gave the captaincy to some bloke who had one cap kind of suggests they didnt have the biggest pool to choose from.


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## gabi (Apr 2, 2012)

Does he captain his club?

altho, imo, hooker or no8 is the best position for a captain, Ive not seen any evidence of leadership skills from hartley. also being able to con refs is surely a pre-requisite for the position, a la sean fitzpatrick. the fact that hartley is constantly up in front of citing panels suggests he's not a master of this.


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## Teaboy (Apr 2, 2012)

Yes I believe Hartley captains Northampton.  Apart from the gougeing incident (which was mental, he did seem intent on gougeing everyone that day) has he been cited often?  I don't think he has, which was part of the defence, i.e he's a changed man.

I didnt realise he moved to the UK when he was only 14, you learn something new everyday.


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## bendeus (Apr 2, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Yes I believe Hartley captains Northampton. Apart from the gougeing incident (which was mental, he did seem intent on gougeing everyone that day) has he been cited often? I don't think he has, which was part of the defence, i.e he's a changed man.


 
He's not, though. Elbow drop against McCaw; unconfirmed but fairly clear gouging incident against Ross Ford; unsavoury maid incident, etc, etc.

Also, if you've ever seen him play for Northampton you'll see that he's another nasty cheap-shot merchant just like Lawes and Ashton. Every game he's niggling and digging; always int the middle of the 'action'. They're a fucking hideous team ATM. Stuffed to the gunwales with cunts, and what's worse, Mallinder obviously wants them like that.

As flypanam says, it's when it's part of the team culture when you've got to watch out. The fact that the biggest cheap shot cunt of them all is captaining that gang of fucking thugs says all you need to know about Saints' approach to the game. They make Munster look like, erm, saints.


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