# What can we take from the students demo?



## DrRingDing (Nov 11, 2010)

This is a thread for listing practical lessons can we take from the most recent demo and apply them to future shenanigans.

It is not for whining liberals.



I think having the demo end at the focus of anger is immensely more effective than end in a rally. 

Also, a shorter march left the angry mob with more energy to kick off at the destination.


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## Fruitloop (Nov 11, 2010)

Swappie placards have a use after all - they burn nicely.


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## DrRingDing (Nov 11, 2010)

Fruitloop said:


> Swappie placards have a use after all - they burn nicely.


 
I think also having decent lumps of wood as the handle of the placard would come in handy as well.


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## fogbat (Nov 11, 2010)

I'm going to build a house out of all the concrete they were throwing. I've not managed to find any of it yet, but it's got to be around somewhere.


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## where to (Nov 11, 2010)

two good observations in the OP.

other factors are the shield from wind and cold that Millbank provided (making it an attractive place for folk to settle in it appeared), and (perhaps paradoxically) the wide open entrance to the courtyard meant it was easy to get in and hard to keep people out.  impossible to repeat though, whatever we pick up won't go unnoticed by the police.


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## killer b (Nov 11, 2010)

always take a mask, even if you've no plans to kick off...


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## Pickman's model (Nov 11, 2010)

frankly this is like the riot in 1886, described thus on the mps website:





> Trafalgar Square Demonstration and Riot 1886
> 
> This brief riot and subsequent panic caused the resignation of the Commissioner, and is sometimes known as Black Monday.
> 
> ...



let's not forget what happened the following year, bloody sunday.


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## DrRingDing (Nov 11, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> This is a thread for listing practical lessons can we take from the most recent demo and apply them to future shenanigans.
> 
> It is not for whining liberals.
> 
> ...


 
I think this is backed up  by what happened the Palestine march ended outside the Israeli embassy. Much fun ensued.


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## DrRingDing (Nov 11, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> I think also having decent lumps of wood as the handle of the placard would come in handy as well.


 
We've prototype these at a previous demo. They came in very handy by forming barriers to keep out the plod. 

Got the idea from a trip over to Greece last December and saw what people armed themselves there with.

Make sure you plain the corners off your 2 x2 for a comfy grip.


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## DrRingDing (Nov 11, 2010)

What concerns me about the students is that so many of them showed their faces, I'm sure they don't realise that a lot of them with end up in chokey. 

I think in addition to the usual bust sheets/cards handed out at demos, general advice about masking up etc would be good from the likes of us more seasoned rioters.


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## DrRingDing (Nov 11, 2010)

I remember a few months ago in Brighton for the EDO stuff, the message was to wear black. Not declaring it was a black bloc just using the anonymity aspects of that. This will give the police a much harder job trying to identify people.


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## Threshers_Flail (Nov 11, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> What concerns me about the students is that so many of them showed their faces, I'm sure they don't realise that a lot of them with end up in chokey.
> 
> I think in addition to the usual bust sheets/cards handed out at demos, general advice about masking up etc would be good from the likes of us more seasoned rioters.


 
I think that most didn't plan on kicking off, they just saw the opportunity and took it. You would hope that they'd have the sense to cover up considering the amount of cameras there mind. As I said in a previous post, I was pleased at how 'normal' all the protesters at Millbank seemed, there were only a few who were blatant anarchists or what not.


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## DrRingDing (Nov 11, 2010)

Threshers_Flail said:


> I think that most didn't plan on kicking off, they just saw the opportunity and took it. You would hope that they'd have the sense to cover up considering the amount of cameras there mind.


 
I can imagine for a lot of these youngsters are not aware of the harsh sentences dished to demonstrators.


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## Threshers_Flail (Nov 11, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> I can imagine for a lot of these youngsters are not aware of the harsh sentences dished to demonstrators.


 
Yep, lets hope the met are as useless prosecuting as they were on Wednesday.


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## audiotech (Nov 11, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> > District Superintendent Robert Walker was appointed to maintain public order, but he was 74 years old and quite unsuitable for such active service. He went in plain clothes to observe the meetings, lost touch with his men and disappeared into the crowd, where he had his pockets picked.
> 
> 
> 
> Luverly.


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## The39thStep (Nov 11, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> I can imagine for a lot of these youngsters are not aware of the harsh sentences dished to demonstrators.


 
Whose fault is that?


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 11, 2010)

audiotech said:


> Luverly.


 
Didn't realise the context of PMs quote for a second and got terribly excited at the prospect of that having happened yesterday


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## DrRingDing (Nov 11, 2010)

The39thStep said:


> Whose fault is that?


 
Please read the OP.....


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## mincepie (Nov 11, 2010)

You should really cover up....

Look at the photo gallery here!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pic...4/Do-you-recognise-these-student-rioters.html


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## Threshers_Flail (Nov 11, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Didn't realise the context of PMs quote for a second and got terribly excited at the prospect of that having happened yesterday


 
Same here.


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## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2010)

Paul Lewis from _The Guardian_ is tweeting about the Facebook page on the _Telegraph_'s shop-a-student thing:

http://twitter.com/#!/paul__lewis/status/2860432838627328



> "Cyber activists" using Facebook try to thwart the Telegraph's manhunt of rioting protesters http://on.fb.me/bmsysF


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## Tankus (Nov 12, 2010)

and gloves


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## Tankus (Nov 12, 2010)

killer b said:


> always take a mask, even if you've no plans to kick off...


...........and gloves


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## Streathamite (Nov 12, 2010)

It would be a good idea to set up a legal fund to pay for court costs that will almost cdertainly ensue, and organise benefit gigs to raise the necessary funding.
Other lesson: NEVER worry about what apoplexy your actions might cause in the massed ranks of _Daily Mail_ readers. Those people are the enemy, so fuck 'em, and fuck 'respectability' too.


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## Streathamite (Nov 12, 2010)

Also, make sure, however possible, that the fuzz underestimate the numbers you're bringing to a demo. The police got badly caught out here, I'd have loved to witness the 'discussions' him and Johnson have had in the wake of this!


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## audiotech (Nov 12, 2010)

Some @ singing this.



> Nick Clegg is a wanker
> he wears a wanker’s hat
> and no one really likes him
> cos he’s a massive twat
> ...


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 12, 2010)

What can we take from the students demo?

I got a TV


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## gawkrodger (Nov 13, 2010)

audiotech said:


> Some @ singing this.


 
hahaha. Worth remembering


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## The39thStep (Nov 13, 2010)

I have done.

What can we take from the student demo ? That despite the optimism of those who feel that success is anything that is a) on TV and b)  could be called a riot that this is not France  68 and that the links between a student demo and the reaction by those who are and will feel the full impact of the cuts are extremely tenuous unless their is some consistent local links made.


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## where to (Nov 13, 2010)

i understand a group of students will be joining the Firefights rally outside Westminster on Wednesday.  that's a start.


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## DrRingDing (Dec 10, 2010)

I think we've learned very loud bangs _do_ freak riot horses (and break coppers bones).


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## Cobbles (Dec 10, 2010)

_"This is a thread for listing practical lessons can we take from the most recent demo and apply them to future shenanigans."_

Shenanigans indeed - let's not pretend that this sort of random vandalism and thuggery has anything to do with politics, it's just a bunch of neds out for a rumble.

Fair enough, in that case, the police need to make early and effective use of proper resources such as dogs, rubber bullets and CS gas  so that once the mob has been neutralised, wholesale arrests can be made with the minimum of effort.

Once the small herd of pestilential hard core have been locked away for a substantial term, life can continue as normal.

Incarceration works with football hooligans so it should work for any form of randomly violent yobbery.


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## past caring (Dec 10, 2010)

There is nothing that infuriates a troll more than being ignored. You know what to do people.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)

the two time-honoured advantages of the demonstrator which should not be surrendered are of course mobility and surprise.


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## fractionMan (Dec 10, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> _"This is a thread for listing practical lessons can we take from the most recent demo and apply them to future shenanigans."_
> 
> Shenanigans indeed - let's not pretend that this sort of random vandalism and thuggery has anything to do with politics, it's just a bunch of neds out for a rumble.
> 
> ...


 
fuck off


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> fuck off


 
that's not quite how you ignore someone


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 10, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> _"This is a thread for listing practical lessons can we take from the most recent demo and apply them to future shenanigans."_
> 
> Shenanigans indeed - let's not pretend that this sort of random vandalism and thuggery has anything to do with politics, it's just a bunch of neds out for a rumble.
> 
> ...


 
Fuck off.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Fuck off.


 
i refer the honourable gentleman to the answer i gave a couple of minutes ago


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## Edie (Dec 10, 2010)

They need to fuckin mask up.


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 10, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> i refer the honourable gentleman to the answer i gave a couple of minutes ago


 
Noted.



> They need to fuckin mask up.



Protective head gear & batons a must.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Noted.
> 
> 
> 
> Protective head gear & batons a must.


what i think you're saying is that sturdier placard sticks are advisable.


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## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

And keep it zipped.


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 10, 2010)

Most definitely ole chap.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)

a sturdy placard stick recently


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)




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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 10, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> a sturdy placard stick recently


 
Just the job. A nice rib tickler


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## past caring (Dec 10, 2010)

I have been giving this some thought - the Xmas tree baubles loaded with paint were obviously quite effective _when they hit their target_. But hitting the target doesn't mean just landing it somewhere about plod's body - in order to make the copper ineffective and have to retire (or even better, flail around uselessly and hit a few of his mates) it is the visor that has to be covered.

Would it not be far better to put the paint in washing up bottles or those fuck-off powerful water pistols (would it still spray in the latter?) to make it much more likely/easier to get the visor?


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## past caring (Dec 10, 2010)

I'd imagine that gloss paint comes off a lot less easily than a vinyl silk or matt. More expensive though.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)

past caring said:


> I have been giving this some thought - the Xmas tree baubles loaded with paint were obviously quite effective _when they hit their target_. But hitting the target doesn't mean just landing it somewhere about plod's body - in order to make the copper ineffective and have to retire (or even better, flail around uselessly and hit a few of his mates) it is the visor that has to be covered.
> 
> Would it not be far better to put the paint in washing up bottles or those fuck-off powerful water pistols (would it still spray in the latter?) to make it much more likely/easier to get the visor?


 if you mixed in some flour (just a little bit) then it would be a fucking pain to get off.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)

past caring said:


> I'd imagine that gloss paint comes off a lot less easily than a vinyl silk or matt. More expensive though.


 
you pay for quality tho


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## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

Little bit of soap maybe


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Little bit of soap maybe


 
some investigation needs to be undertaken


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 10, 2010)

Get on it forthwith ole chap!


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## rekil (Dec 10, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> a sturdy placard stick recently


 I saw one guy using one of these for his placard stick on the union demo here. Only one but it's early days yet.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2010)

copliker said:


> I saw one guy using one of these for his placard stick on the union demo here. Only one but it's early days yet.


 
the hurley is of course a traditional ornament to many a demonstration


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## Macabre (Dec 10, 2010)

I think the lesson is don't bother sticking to the main route, you're just walking into a kettle.  I had to demask and get my photo taken to get out of parliment sq last night 

The rioters on the high streets did much better as they kept moving at a fast pace.  Let the slow people take up police resources on the main march while groups of ~100 people just leg it around the place.


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## ymu (Dec 10, 2010)

Couple of suggestions I've put on other threads.

Mobile toilet facilities - in the form of balloons and a funnel for pissing in, and placcy bags for shit. Easy to lob, and weighing almost nothing. One person can provide ammo for hundreds.

Ropes to make better use of the metal crash barriers - to make handles for easier manoeuverability, and to tie two barriers together so that they can be angled and used to cut through the police lines rather than just push against it, like this (o=ob, p=protesters)

ooooooo
oo/\ooo
p/pp\pp
pppppp


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 10, 2010)

Or just piss on the jack boots?


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## ymu (Dec 10, 2010)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Or just piss on the jack boots?


 
That would involve the men exposing delicate parts of themselves to the thugs and excluding the women altogether. Not practical.

Plus, it'd bother them a lot more if it landed on their heads.


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## Macabre (Dec 10, 2010)

ymu said:


> Couple of suggestions I've put on other threads.
> 
> Mobile toilet facilities - in the form of balloons and a funnel for pissing in, and placcy bags for shit. Easy to lob, and weighing almost nothing. One person can provide ammo for hundreds.
> 
> ...


 
Cable ties would be easier


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## past caring (Dec 10, 2010)

Easier to remove too. Snip.


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 10, 2010)

ymu said:


> That would involve the men exposing delicate parts of themselves to the thugs and excluding the women altogether. Not practical.



Some Urban members could use their, not so delicate parts, to actually beat plod to death with!


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## ymu (Dec 10, 2010)

Macabre said:


> Cable ties would be easier


 
Softish rope provides better protection for hands, as far as making handles goes - it's the knuckles that take a battering when the barrier gets hit, but wrapping a layer of rope under the handle part would solve this quickly and relatively cheaply. Cable ties would be easier for holding two barricades together - but they'd have to be pretty heavy duty to hold up to the strain.


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## Tankus (Dec 10, 2010)

past caring 0-12-2010 17:26 





> Would it not be far better to put the paint in washing up bottles or those fuck-off powerful water pistols (would it still spray in the latter?) to make it much more likely/easier to get the visor?



get the ones that look like firearms ...be best ! ...or one of those paintball guns ...for the range... 

heres one ......good street cred too


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## ymu (Dec 10, 2010)

Tankus said:


> past caring 0-12-2010 17:26
> 
> get the ones that look like firearms ...be best ! ...or one of those paintball guns ...for the range...
> 
> heres one ......good street cred too


 
Moron.

Get one that obviously looks like a child's toy. Make sure they're laughed out of court if they try to escalate into the language of terrorism.


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## Tankus (Dec 10, 2010)

arf


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## Dimitris (Dec 10, 2010)

You definitely need masks and gloves. Motor cycle helmets are also good but on occasions your not able to see very well. In Greece they arrest you for carrying a mask, I am not sure if that is the same in UK, but try to hide it while approaching the demo.

Also have wooden sticks for placards and flags as you already said so. Try to form blocks, put the guys with the placards and flags on the top and on the sides of the block as a kind of a barrier. Well formed blocks are not easily broken by the police. I also liked the "shields" that some of you guys had.

Fire crackers or anything loud for the horses. If that demo was in Greece I am sure that a number of petrol bombs would the thrown against the horses but I do not know if I could recommend that for a uk demo. 

Do they use chemical gasses ? I watched some videos but did not see any... If they do spray you with anything, you may need some medication for that. We use Maalox in Greece, I am not sure if that medicine also exists in UK under the same name. This is an antacid that works in the stomach to neutralize and reduce acid. Try to get organised and have with you some guys with paramedics skills, they could have bandages etc with them.


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## SunRarr (Dec 10, 2010)

What can we take?

Up the tutition fees a couple of thousand per student to pay for policing and damage repair. Why should i pay for your "protest"?

And arrest those masked fuckers on site. CS gas. Baton in the nuts. Scum.


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## ymu (Dec 10, 2010)

Aha! Some of the shields yesterday were designed to do what I was wittering about. Perfect!

From the start, here:


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## SunRarr (Dec 10, 2010)

Time for the police to use their guns. 

Scum protesters. Cunts. Don't know they're fucking born.


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## DrRingDing (Dec 10, 2010)

ymu said:


> Aha! Some of the shields yesterday were designed to do what I was wittering about. Perfect!
> 
> From the start, here:




I'm really liking those shields.


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## DrRingDing (Dec 10, 2010)

SunRarr said:


> Time for the police to use their guns.
> 
> Scum protesters. Cunts. Don't know their fucking born.


 
'They're'


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## SunRarr (Dec 10, 2010)

Oh yes. Thanks.


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## rekil (Dec 10, 2010)

SunRarr said:


> Oh yes. Thanks.


 
Class dismissed. Off you fuck.


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## SunRarr (Dec 10, 2010)

Off you fuck. Also.


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## cantsin (Dec 10, 2010)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Some Urban members could use their, not so delicate parts, to actually beat plod to death with!


 
plse don't bring J--Z up again, am still in therapy over that shit.


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## Barking_Mad (Dec 10, 2010)

I think protesters have to be a bit more savvy with the police. Yes those coppers out for a ruck will love it and you aren't going to change this - but there are also many who aren't so keen and are unsure about their orders (kettling a case in point) time spent talking to some of those types is better spent than chucking bottles of piss and insulting them.

Maybe out of place on here, but *shrugs* more than one way to skin a cat.


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## Threshers_Flail (Dec 10, 2010)

Barking_Mad said:


> I think protesters have to be a bit more savvy with the police. Yes those coppers out for a ruck will love it and you aren't going to change this - but there are also many who aren't so keen and are unsure about their orders (kettling a case in point) time spent talking to some of those types is better spent than chucking bottles of piss and insulting them.
> 
> Maybe out of place on here, but *shrugs* more than one way to skin a cat.


 
I tried talking to a few, they weren't having any of it though. They just told me to fuck off.


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## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

SunRarr said:


> Time for the police to use their guns.
> 
> Scum protesters. Cunts. Don't know they're fucking born.


 
What guns? Bye


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## Barking_Mad (Dec 10, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm really liking those shields.


 
Are the V for Vendetta masks in or out?!


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

Barking_Mad said:


> I think protesters have to be a bit more savvy with the police. Yes those coppers out for a ruck will love it and you aren't going to change this - but there are also many who aren't so keen and are unsure about their orders (kettling a case in point) time spent talking to some of those types is better spent than chucking bottles of piss and insulting them.
> 
> Maybe out of place on here, but *shrugs* more than one way to skin a cat.



I wasn't there yesterday, but I've been on marches against govt policy before and there's really nothing doing reasoning with riot police. On, say, an anti-war march, many of the coppers will agree with the protesters and will treat them with good will. But this is different. The coppers provoke the violence on days like these. They are prepared and keyed up to 'go into battle'. They lose any individuality to the helmet, the shield and the baton, and they're riot police, not just ordinary plod.


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## Barking_Mad (Dec 10, 2010)

Threshers_Flail said:


> I tried talking to a few, they weren't having any of it though. They just told me to fuck off.


 
Keep being super nice to them  You dont have to mean it, just _look_ sincere


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## bi0boy (Dec 10, 2010)

The large fence panels were good to enable pushing without getting batoned. I saw one used well to protect people trying to unfasten another barrier. They won't be around most of the time though.

A lot more things to frighten and scatter horses. 

Changing the focus to weaker police lines on nearby streets - the plod are slower than the crowd to re-enforce, so success can be achieved if the pressure is kept up.

Placard sticks could be a bit heavier, or have spikes on the bottom as they tend to fall over easily in the wind.


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## Wilson (Dec 10, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> some investigation needs to be undertaken


 
If you were to fill your bauable then attach that to the end of your stick you would be more able to hit the target with accuracy.


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## Barking_Mad (Dec 10, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I wasn't there yesterday, but I've been on marches against govt policy before and there's really nothing doing reasoning with riot police. On, say, an anti-war march, many of the coppers will agree with the protesters and will treat them with good will. But this is different. The coppers provoke the violence on days like these. They are prepared and keyed up to 'go into battle'. They lose any individuality to the helmet, the shield and the baton, and they're riot police, not just ordinary plod.


 
I dunno, me and a coupe of guys at the G8 got caught up with a few at Gleneagles as they waited tooled up behind a fence. Id say after an hour or so of engaging with them they slightly off kilter.

Maybe some good old fashioned humiliation would work better?


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

Fair enough. I'm not saying don't try it. The problem is, ime, that they're shit scared – a lot more scared than they ought to be really – and scared people can do dangerous things.


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## DRINK? (Dec 10, 2010)

that police will probably get a bit more like this....riot police and bellends battling.....gonna be a entertaining year


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

I try to give you the benefit of the doubt usually, drink, but that's just nasty. You're just nasty.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 10, 2010)

DRINK? said:


> that police will probably get a bit more like this....riot police and bellends battling.....gonna be a entertaining year




I bet you couldn't get your cock out quick enough watching that.


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## dylans (Dec 10, 2010)

The thing about going into a demo with weaponry is that you risk arrest if you arouse any kind of suspicion before you get into the safety of a crowd. The cops are even talking about arresting people for wearing masks now. So weaponry disguised as harmless demo kit is important. The book shields were excellent in avoiding initial suspicion. Painted with slogans they looked harmless but they worked brilliantly. Expect them to become a regular part of demonstrations in future.It would be useful if people organised themselves into groups for coordinated kettle breaking units too.

Those cops were looking really vulnerable in the vid above. The only thing that stopped them being completely overrun was lack of confidence and defensive equipment by those in the crowd. A little organisation can overcome that next time. Those cops were lucky to get away without being battered frankly.

It was also good to see hard hats being handed out . Defensive equipment such as this should be a priority in future. Also solid wooden poles can be easily disguised as placards and there is no reason why banner poles cant be a good few inches thicker.


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## ymu (Dec 10, 2010)

Another thing I've mentioned on other threads ... is decentralisation of protests. Not just the kettle avoiding, multiple unpredictable routes through London, but more national days of protest which kick off everywhere. People cannot afford to get to London that often - they can get to their local high street every week. And plod can't call in reinforcements from outside London if they're going to be needed back home.

The anti-fees and anti-tax dodger protests have both done this really well so far. Here's tomorrow's stuff from #UKuncut



> Tomorrow, Angel Islington, Vodafone 2 Liverpool Road, N1 0PU2 12 Noon http://bit.ly/h72tgI about 2 hours ago via bitly
> 
> Tonorrow, Belfast, 1 PM - Vodafone Donegall Place http://on.fb.me/ig5ti2 about 3 hours ago via bitly
> 
> ...


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## Barking_Mad (Dec 10, 2010)

Wait, go home, it's all over. The Met are launching a major criminal investigation into the Demos.

Sleep safe kiddies.


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## dylans (Dec 10, 2010)

> Don Foster, one Lib Dem MP to vote for the rise, has had a rock thrown through his office window



Terrible


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## ymu (Dec 10, 2010)

dylans said:


> The thing about going into a demo with weaponry is that you risk arrest if you arouse any kind of suspicion before you get into the safety of a crowd. The cops are even talking about arresting people for wearing masks now. So weaponry disguised as harmless demo kit is important. The book shields were excellent in avoiding initial suspicion. Painted with slogans they looked harmless but they worked brilliantly. Expect them to become a regular part of demonstrations in future.It would be useful if people organised themselves into groups for coordinated kettle breaking units too.
> 
> Those cops were looking really vulnerable in the vid above. The only thing that stopped them being completely overrun was lack of confidence and defensive equipment by those in the crowd. A little organisation can overcome that next time. Those cops were lucky to get away without being battered frankly.
> 
> It was also good to see hard hats being handed out . Defensive equipment such as this should be a priority in future. Also solid wooden poles can be easily disguised as placards and there is no reason why banner poles cant be a good few inches thicker.


 
Agree with all of that.

Masking up should be easy for the next couple of months - you need scarves/polo-necks in this weather. When it gets warmer, that will be trickier. Face-paint is probably the best approach. Virtually impossible to recognise someone with a pattern drawn on their face.

Hard to pin suspicion on anyone for wearing a helmet on a protest any more (court-wise, that is). There's enough evidence from yesterday alone that it is a sensible precaution given the way the police behave and the number of tiny girl-children they battered over the head.


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## tbaldwin (Dec 10, 2010)

Have to say i think the protests have been a lot more effective than i thought they would be. I think the protests about tax dodging have been really positive and the student protests when they moved beyond the predictable really worried both the OB and (for want of a better word) the establishment. I think the fact that the demos have been so militant will make more and more Tories and Lib Dem MPs worried. The Lib Dems must also be worried they are facing potential electoral meltdown and after the next election may end up with NO seats.
They were really dishonest when it came to funding of H/E and are going to pay a heavy price.
For years they hoped to hold the balance of power, bet there not so keen on it now.


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## past caring (Dec 10, 2010)

Can I ask - watching the videos posted, what is it with the number of professional/semi-professional photographers that are tolerated at the front when it's going off? At best, the fuckers are in the way and at worst........


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## Tankus (Dec 10, 2010)

Wilson said:


> Strong solvents like toluene or xylene will permanently cloud most polycarbonate on contact, cellulose thinners would be a cheap product to use and potentially sprayable, mix that with a small amount of strong acid like you might find in a drain cleaning product and you will have a material similar to paint stripper which would be even better. If you were to fill your bauable with this then attach that to the end of your stick you would be more able to hit the target with accuracy.



 out of interest ..what will it do to the skin and eyes on someones face ?

justification for those new shotgun rounds methinks


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## Tankus (Dec 10, 2010)

Barking_Mad said:


> Wait, go home, it's all over. The Met are launching a major criminal investigation into the Demos.
> 
> Sleep safe kiddies.









someone  isn't


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Dec 10, 2010)

past caring said:


> Can I ask - watching the videos posted, what is it with the number of professional/semi-professional photographers that are tolerated at the front when it's going off? At best, the fuckers are in the way and at worst........


 
It works two ways though. They can capture police brutality, or they can sell their photos to the Daily Mail to use as they wish. I covered my face when I was snapped by these guys yesterday, but I also wish there was a couple to get snaps of disabled journo Jody McIntyre being dragged along the floor. I think overall they're useful as far as we're concerned.


----------



## Tankus (Dec 10, 2010)

next one the police are going to kettle . force removal of face masks and photograph ..........

Having a pop at Charles and making them look like tits..... means that they will step up a notch


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Dec 10, 2010)

You can use a scarf as a mask, they can't do anything about it surely?


----------



## DRINK? (Dec 10, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> I bet you couldn't get your cock out quick enough watching that.


 
not at all, quite sickening...just trying to get some balance ...if it was a 'pig" it would be glorified....some of the sh*t on this thread, you know this is where it is heading and despite all the chest beating its not going to be the police bleating about getting fucked over....as I say, I'll be on the sidelines with the wheezy boys


----------



## JimW (Dec 10, 2010)

Group of you join the Sealed Knot for a bit of pike drilling, then with sturdier flagpoles on the day able to provide a spearhead to break the plod lines at a safe distance from the batons.


----------



## SunRarr (Dec 11, 2010)

Interesting. No talk of protest here. Just talk of fighting the police. Scum.

You anarchist scum are fucked. Die.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Dec 11, 2010)

SunRarr said:


> Interesting. No talk of protest here. Just talk of fighting the police. Scum.
> 
> You anarchist scum are fucked. Die.


 
Charming.


----------



## SunRarr (Dec 11, 2010)

No problem, thanks.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 11, 2010)

SunRarr said:


> Interesting. No talk of protest here. Just talk of fighting the police. Scum.
> 
> You anarchist scum are fucked. Die.


 
Are you hopped up on goofballs?


----------



## SunRarr (Dec 11, 2010)

No.


----------



## Tankus (Dec 11, 2010)

Threshers_Flail said:


> You can use a scarf as a mask, they can't do anything about it surely?



its only a thought ...but under section 1, they can remove anything that prevents identification........Although I bet I may be corrected by someone here .....you also need to keep your face covered through the entire transport netwok, before and after you get to kickoff.....
Facial recognition software can be used months after the event

This is going to escalate very quickly ........

Smart water is probably on the cards with GPS ,date and time stamps ......you may have not even know you have been stamped


----------



## Tankus (Dec 11, 2010)

JimW said:


> Group of you join the Sealed Knot for a bit of pike drilling, then with sturdier flagpoles on the day able to provide a spearhead to break the plod lines at a safe distance from the batons.


 
couple of those ...and you will probably get this


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 11, 2010)

The kettle has had its day. We will still see it but the kids can out run it and those with any savy can prepair for it. It is now a bigger liability to the police than an asset, bad for publicity and a manpower drain that has all Londons PSU level 1 and 2 officers kettling the fluffies (ok thats me) and a few anarchos in one location and leaving anyone up for a bit of mayhem with the reign of London.

Time for new tactics for the police, though it will likely take a death to drive home.

In terms of covering up, come with a cheap bike and you have legitimate reason for both helmet and face cover. London's polution you see, gotta protect from that.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2010)

SunRarr said:


> Interesting. No talk of protest here. Just talk of fighting the police. Scum.
> 
> You anarchist scum are fucked. Die.


 
lol.  you twat


----------



## Tankus (Dec 11, 2010)

double post error


----------



## Tankus (Dec 11, 2010)

> Interesting. No talk of protest here. Just talk of fighting the police.



true though 

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...med-police?p=11324212&viewfull=1#post11324212


> More interesting that they were monitoring Facebook , and pre emptively acted on it .........
> 
> Fun for all the peeps on here bragging about giving the police a good kicking from their home computers ....dontcha think?


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2010)

Tankus said:


> true though


 
for someone who's been here 4 years you sure haven't read much


----------



## Tankus (Dec 11, 2010)

it comes in spurts


edit

did I miss the post where everyone is on a firefox  proxy then ?


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 11, 2010)

What's a book shield? 

Bottles of skunk piss would be funny to throw over plod, dunno where you could get some though...


----------



## editor (Dec 11, 2010)

past caring said:


> Can I ask - watching the videos posted, what is it with the number of professional/semi-professional photographers that are tolerated at the front when it's going off? At best, the fuckers are in the way and at worst........


Would you like the press to be asked to leave by the police, like what happened at the G20 protests?


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Dec 11, 2010)

copliker said:


> I saw one guy using one of these for his placard stick on the union demo here. Only one but it's early days yet.


 
Have none of you politicos ever heard of the newspaper baton?  Ideal for such an event.  Look at this picture and think what damage a broadsheet could do...


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Dec 11, 2010)

Tankus said:


> its only a thought ...but under section 1, they can remove anything that prevents identification........Although I bet I may be corrected by someone here .....you also need to keep your face covered through the entire transport netwok, before and after you get to kickoff.....
> Facial recognition software can be used months after the event
> 
> This is going to escalate very quickly ........
> ...


 
You start out sane, quickly go a bit para, then end up completely tinfoil hatter...

No judge or jury would convict on the basis of facial recognition software or footage of someone traveling to a demo.  "months after the event" is too late to do anything about it.

WTF is "smart water"?  On the off chance that you haven't invented such a concept, I severely doubt that it has GPS, date or time stamps.  Even if it does, all this would show is that you attended a demonstration, which is not a crime.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 11, 2010)

DRINK? said:


> that police will probably get a bit more like this....riot police and bellends battling.....gonna be a entertaining year




they start that shit and they can start putting out flaming petrol and sugar off their cunt mates faces.

escalation goes both ways and the cops at westminister should appreciate the fact that in a fuck lot of other countries they'd have been dealing with molotovs.


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 11, 2010)

Berkers and Millwall bricks.


----------



## gamma globulins (Dec 11, 2010)

Jon-of-arc said:


> You start out sane, quickly go a bit para, then end up completely tinfoil hatter...
> 
> [...]WTF is "smart water"?  On the off chance that you haven't invented such a concept, I severely doubt that it has GPS, date or time stamps.  Even if it does, all this would show is that you attended a demonstration, which is not a crime.



Smartwater wiki.

You might be able to remove it with isopropanol, but it's not a terribly kind compound (it would probably do something weird to your hair at the very least) and if you were to do it on your own there'd be a risk of falling unconscious. If you want to avoid it altogether I'd recommend one of those cheap plastic cagoul-in-a-bag (including hood) lined with tinfoil (as the 'solvent' of the smartwater may be capable of making plastics porous) and disposed of after the event. Not sure what I'd recommend for the lower half of the body.

So yeah, tinfoil-hats might actually be the way forward for this kind of thing.


----------



## Tankus (Dec 11, 2010)

Jon-of-arc said:


> You start out sane, quickly go a bit para, then end up completely tinfoil hatter...
> 
> No judge or jury would convict on the basis of facial recognition software or footage of someone traveling to a demo.  "months after the event" is too late to do anything about it....build a case file against you ..put you in a time and a place......CCTV stored on a hard drive was used againt the bombers months after the event to track their path through london
> 
> WTF is "smart water"?  On the off chance that you haven't invented such a concept, I severely doubt that it has GPS, date or time stamps easy , just make a note of where each individual spray is used  Even if it does, all this would show is that you attended a demonstration, which is not a crime.


more common than you think
way too much wine last night 

even a church not far from where I lived uses it to protect to lead roof 






These _"students"_ attacking the police are risking their own personal further education ...  its just not clever


----------



## past caring (Dec 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Would you like the press to be asked to leave by the police, like what happened at the G20 protests?



I simply asked an honest question, is all. Things have changed quite considerably from "my day" (miners strike/wapping/poll tax/afa) in the amount of photographers/video recorders in among the protestors and I'll confess to having been a little surprised by that.

Maybe yes, overall, it may be of benefit to have press and TV news photographers there in that _may_ give the police pause for thought when it comes to their worst excesses. 

At the same time there's now a hell of a lot of video footage and photographs appearing on the net from independent journalists, or just protestors who were there that could be used by the police to secure convictions. The main lesson from which is, of course, for those who might be considering engaging in activities that might result in a prosecution to disguise their identities.

The intention of kettling is clearly less about public order and more about demoralising all but the most committed (generally, those moving in to struggle for the first time) and I have no doubt in the coming weeks and months the state will employ other tactics designed to achieve the same end - the naming and shaming of protestors, the reproduction of photographs with requests for info from the public, the CPS going for the most severe of charges possible on the evidence and the handing down of exemplary sentences.

In many ways, I think what happens over the student and tax avoider protests in the coming months may be key to what happens in the coming years and the government's plans for austerity. I am not, of course, saying that should the present protests lose that we can forget any other resistance to the cuts - but should they win or force any significant concessions then that will send out a clear message to everyone else likely to be on the sharp end in the coming years that resistance can succeed. The stakes are, therefore, far from insignificant and we can expect the state to behave accordingly.


----------



## dylans (Dec 11, 2010)

Perhaps someone could organise Ddos attacks on the newspaper sites that launch witchhunts on protesters?


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 11, 2010)

JimW said:


> Group of you join the Sealed Knot for a bit of pike drilling, then with sturdier flagpoles on the day able to provide a spearhead to break the plod lines at a safe distance from the batons.


 
'SPAAAAAAAAAAARTAAAAAAAAAA!'


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 11, 2010)

Why do the met uses horses anyway? The vast majority of other countries use water cannon.


----------



## joevsimp (Dec 11, 2010)

audiotech said:


> Some @ singing this.


 
 that's better than "Tony is a Tory" to the same tune at the (frankly mundane) fees demo in 2006


----------



## Cobbles (Dec 11, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Why do the met uses horses anyway? The vast majority of other countries use water cannon.



Indeed, however, dogs and tear gas would be much more cost effective than water cannon.


----------



## Tankus (Dec 11, 2010)

Bakunin said:


> 'SPAAAAAAAAAAARTAAAAAAAAAA!'











try that and ...and this will be the police response


----------



## rekil (Dec 11, 2010)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Have none of you politicos ever heard of the newspaper baton?  Ideal for such an event.  Look at this picture and think what damage a broadsheet could do...


Bar of soap in a sock would do as well but the hurley has a certain historical and cultural resonance in Ireland, cuchulainn, the ICA and whatnot. Tremendously versatile too.


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 11, 2010)

I think it has occurred to everyone involved that many mobile groups of protesters are (a) less able to be kettled and (b) more disruptive than one big group of demonstrators. The practicalities of it are still awkward though. If you organise a decent-sized group to do anything before the demo starts you will be known by the police, so everything has to be spontaneous. But what you see at these demos is someone trying to lead a breakaway group, but someone else has a different idea, or some swappie uses a megaphone to tell them to stick to the plan (as actually happened on Thursday to a group I was in), or the people with good ideas don't have the confidence to persuade people to join them, or the ideas about where to go are half-baked. Hopefully people will get more confident about these group maneouvres as time goes on - but if people have any ideas about how to make Mobile Autonomous Group Tactics (I just made that up but I think I like it ) work better and more easily then that would be very useful. For instance publishing a list of 'targets' (rather than just one place to demonstrate) before the demo might be useful, but that in itself might prepare police to defend them.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 11, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> Indeed, however, dogs and tear gas would be much more cost effective than water cannon.


 
Yep, water canons tend to run out of water rather quickly.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 11, 2010)

Tankus said:


> its only a thought ...but under section 1, they can remove anything that prevents identification........Although I bet I may be corrected by someone here .....you also need to keep your face covered through the entire transport netwok, before and after you get to kickoff.....
> Facial recognition software can be used months after the event
> 
> This is going to escalate very quickly ........
> ...



You've watched too many episodes of "Spooks", sunshine. FR software has to be supplemented with lots of human eye-hours to turn up a match, and smart water doesn't come with GPS, neither can specific data be "encoded in it. All it does is provide evidence that you were at a location when it was deployed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 11, 2010)

Tankus said:


> try that and ...and this will be the police response


 
i quite like that, the thought of the police using a phalanx against rifles and machine guns fills me with cheer


----------



## GuerillaPhoto (Dec 11, 2010)

http://www.devo.com/sarin/shieldbook.pdf


----------



## kenny g (Dec 11, 2010)

A lot of interesting stuff there.



> The most effective thing a shield wall can do is confuse authorities as to the intent of the
> march.  To that end having one or more factions split up and take different routes will throw
> a police operation into disarray.  Because the police are restricted to following ranking officers and their commands (at least while maneuvering) if your march splits while the shadowing police force only has one officer among itself, it cannot break in two to follow both
> groups.
> ...



http://www.devo.com/sarin/shieldbook.pdf


----------



## gawkrodger (Dec 11, 2010)

for larger demos, I've never understood why we don't have multiple start points.

Also surprised we don't see more people wear those construction hard hats - on a related note who (or rather what org.) was doling out the green ones on Thursday?


----------



## rekil (Dec 12, 2010)

Tankus said:


> try that and ...and this will be the police response


Time to deploy a battery of teddybear catapults again then. 



Fuck it.  Too much?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 12, 2010)

gawkrodger said:


> for larger demos, I've never understood why we don't have multiple start points.


 
Like G20 London 2009?

Surely multiple start points which converge on a single destination point are vulnerable to exactly the same type of containment tactics?

On the other hand, single start points which then split into multiple routes leading to multiple destination points (eg the main J18 event in London 1999, or the big S26 mobilisation against the IMF/World Bank meetings in Praha 2000) require the police to deploy greater resources across a greater area, with the accompanying benefit of facilitating multiple chances of breaching a target - probing at numerous locations until a weak point is or several weak points are identified.

Similarly the description in 'Beating The Fascists' of the AFA action against Blood & Honour (Hyde Park, 1989) mentions how after the evening's (successful) shenanigans, the militant anti-fascists splintered into four separate groups which briskly headed off in four different directions to four different prearranged rendezvous points, an exfiltration manouevre which had the desired effect of dumping the police surveillance on the group.

On the other hand, diffuse, discrete actions in different locations across a locale (eg the many autonomous group actions all over the City of London at J18) spread police resources thinner still, because there is no expectation that these separate actions will connect together at any given place at any given time.


----------



## Will2403 (Dec 12, 2010)

There is a lot of anger at the police and rightly so but under their body armour and helmets they are middle class people getting screwed like the rest of us. Plus the poh-lice was cut like the rest of the public sector. A big banner reminding them of this truth at the front of the kettle is worthwhile imo:
WE ARE ON THE SAME SIDE


----------



## Will2403 (Dec 12, 2010)

kenny g said:


> A lot of interesting stuff there.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.devo.com/sarin/shieldbook.pdf


 

I agree. Weak points should be identified and then send the word out to the main group saying that rushing the barrier is being planned and wait for the call. A few people with megaphones should then intiate the rush.


----------



## Will2403 (Dec 12, 2010)

Helmets of somekind are essential if you are at the front of the kettle. However wearing full biker gear is not going to be worn by many so there is a risk of standing out even more and getting nicked early on for being a ringleader.


----------



## kenny g (Dec 12, 2010)




----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 12, 2010)

Will2403 said:


> There is a lot of anger at the police and rightly so but under their body armour and helmets they are middle class people getting screwed like the rest of us. Plus the poh-lice was cut like the rest of the public sector. A big banner reminding them of this truth at the front of the kettle is worthwhile imo:
> WE ARE ON THE SAME SIDE


 
No we're not.
A few facts: 

The police are among the best-paid of public servants - much more so than the military or the fire and ambulance services.

The cuts are being deliberately targeted at "back office" and support functions. Although this will have an effect in terms of loading back some of the administrative work on coppers, it won't have a direct effect on police manning levels.

The police work within a closed culture that for the most part views the likes of us in contempt.

I don't know how old you are, although judging by your idealism, I'd say under 25, but some of us old farts have a bit of experience of the police. We remember the viciousness with which they policed protests and marches back in the '70s and '80s, how they treated the mining communities like shit in '84-'85, how they *initiated* violence at Wapping and Stonehenge, how they spent 3 dictates casually intimidating ethnic minorities (and working class communities as a whole, for that matter) pretty much with impunity until the MacPherson report, and a hundred other expressions of just how much they're *NOT* on the same side as us.
*They* defend the interests of the very people whose actions have made these protests necessary.
Please try to work through your naivety. Your rose-tinted glasses may compromise your vision so that a copper gets close enough to lamp you one round the head.


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 12, 2010)

Kettle game: http://ded.increpare.com/~locus/kettle/


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 12, 2010)

Chanting "your jobs are next" etc at the police is rather silly as they can't legally be made redundant.


----------



## Will2403 (Dec 12, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> No we're not.
> A few facts:
> 
> The police are among the best-paid of public servants - much more so than the military or the fire and ambulance services.
> ...


 
Thanks for that info, I was not aware of any of it.  

You are close with your age assessment.  I am 28, but the only march / protest I have been on was the anti-war march in 2003   and my experience of the police has been quite good, however I've lived most of my life in Suffolk so it's not exactly crime central.  

Plus I wrote my car off recently whilst driving without insurance and I was 18 days away from being licenced for 2 years which meant that they could have taken my licence off me and made me resit my tests (i failed 5 times and missed one test by being late - so I must have spent about £2k passing my test) - but I haven't heard from them and I think they may have just thought I have been punished enough by losing my car and not being able to replace it.  Will probably get a letter now with the fine and all that 

Lol, so given that sheltered existence I would definitely be careful if I go to any of the London protests.  Might end up looking like a complete twat being the only one wandering about with a motorbike helmet on but safety first n all that


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 12, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Chanting "your jobs are next" etc at the police is rather silly as they can't legally be made redundant.


 
We paid for your hats is better anyway. Followed by a rousing chorus of two hats.


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 12, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Chanting "your jobs are next" etc at the police is rather silly as they can't legally be made redundant.


 
But presumably the police can slow down recruitment, which would put those currently working under increased pressure, which would lead to more of them on long-term sick, more early retirements, resignations etc etc


----------



## tbaldwin (Dec 12, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> No we're not.
> A few facts:
> 
> The police are among the best-paid of public servants - much more so than the military or the fire and ambulance services.
> ...


 
I remember you were a squadie at the time. How many innocent kids were shot in Northern Ireland at that time? Should we hate all member of the armed forces for that?
I agree the OB went mad in the miners strike there were suspicions at the time that some Army personell were secretly involved? What do you think?


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 12, 2010)

Posted previously, but for those who missed it - taken from the Guardian blog



> I just got home after attending the embers of the protest at the end of Victoria Street. While there I got chatting to a 17year-old girl. A while later a group of people who I believe to be neo-Nazis turned up and started causing trouble. They were trying to start on an old man of about 60. A policeman calmed him down. They then started picking on this girl. They all started to scream "Cunt!" at her and she called them this back. The group (about 12-15) walked up to her in a very menacing way. We backed off towards the police and then one of the group pushed the girl violently in the head, causing her to fall down on her back. I pulled her away to the police and asked for help. Two of them smirked at each other and one said: "You wanted free speech." They then continued to watch as the neo-Nazis caused trouble. This occurred at around 7pm.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 12, 2010)

Brainaddict said:


> But presumably the police can slow down recruitment, which would put those currently working under increased pressure, which would lead to more of them on long-term sick, more early retirements, resignations etc etc



Or force them to retire early on the grounds of ‘efficiency'...

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...ts-ageist-says-senior-officer-55578-27610435/

Also 500+ civvy jobs (PCS members) to go from NWP. Imagine same for most forces.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 12, 2010)

tbaldwin said:


> I remember you were a squadie at the time. How many innocent kids were shot in Northern Ireland at that time? Should we hate all member of the armed forces for that?


Obviously, I can only speak for my own battalion and regt, but IMHO you're comparing chalk and cheese, and you'll find that the RUC (i.e. the N.I. police) shot/shoot more innocent kids than the British army did. We had/have Rules of Engagement, where we pretty much had to call in and request permission to chamber live rounds, even if we were under fire ourselves (bear in mind this was 1980=81, post-Bloody Sunday). The RUC had no such constraints. Our use of violence was limited and rare compared to theirs. Most of the time we just stood there and let them throw stuff at us.


> I agree the OB went mad in the miners strike there were suspicions at the time that some Army personell were secretly involved? What do you think?


I haven't got a clue. I've never seen convincing proof, although anecdotally the evidence is strong. I've no doubt that if it did happen, then someone will eventually spill the beans far enough that evidence will be available.
It wouldn't surprise me, though, because I was aware of attempts around that time by cunts like Hart to recruit recent *ex*-soldiers as some kind of "specials", being offered a ton a day "off the cards". Not really a sensible move at the time, given how many people had joined up anyway because the govt was fucking over the mines and steelworks.


----------



## shaman75 (Dec 12, 2010)

gawkrodger said:


> Also surprised we don't see more people wear those construction hard hats - on a related note *who (or rather what org.) was doling out the green ones on Thursday?*



I'm under the impression they were handed out on behalf of the Robin Hood Tax campaign, although I've not seen anything official on their sites (perhaps not surprisingly).


----------



## gawkrodger (Dec 13, 2010)

just wondering 'cos if memory serves me correctly they're about £3 a pop. From the footage etc it looks like hundreds were doled out for free


----------



## GuerillaPhoto (Dec 13, 2010)

can anyone identify what is on these guys backs:


----------



## ymu (Dec 13, 2010)

Fire extinguisher.


----------



## consumer135 (Dec 13, 2010)

I always wondered what would happen if some of the banners were made of something like fly paper which was sticky towards the top on one side.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 13, 2010)

ymu said:


> Fire extinguisher.


 
appropriate really ...


----------



## crimethInc (Dec 13, 2010)

as i understand, the hard-hats were dolled out/paid for by ULU.


----------



## kenny g (Dec 13, 2010)

I am sure they got bulk discounts anyway.


----------



## ymu (Dec 14, 2010)

Billy Bragg's take on it.



> This was supposed to be a generation of slacktivists, willing to stop Simon Cowell from getting the Christmas No 1, but not prepared to take things any further. Instead they have taken the initiative, not waiting for the Labour party or the TUC to tell them what to do, making their own connections with others in society facing painful cuts and demanding that tax avoiders take their share of the pain, too.
> 
> From what I've experienced, they seem determined to avoid the ideological nitpicking that has for so long blighted the British left. This is the first generation to have the opportunity to create a form of socialism that is not tainted by totalitarianism. Those of us who fought the Tories in the dying days of the last century should listen and learn.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 14, 2010)

Not urging people to vote lib-dem anymore then billy? Pity you didn't listen _before_ the election eh?


----------



## Spion (Dec 14, 2010)

Barking_Mad said:


> Posted previously, but for those who missed it - taken from the Guardian blog



I see the EDL have come out on in support of the police and chatter on their boards is about defending Churchill's statue etc and/or giving some students a slap
http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/church-and-king-mob/

A sideshow, but worth knowing about


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 14, 2010)

past caring said:


> There is nothing that infuriates a troll more than being ignored. You know what to do people.


ignore list suitably amended!


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 14, 2010)

Brainaddict said:


> I think it has occurred to everyone involved that many mobile groups of protesters are (a) less able to be kettled and (b) more disruptive than one big group of demonstrators. The practicalities of it are still awkward though. .


This totally. We need a concerted action plan to avoid kettling, and the best I can think of is having different groups of people swarm off to a number of individual target places. Needs the numbers though


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 14, 2010)

DaveCinzano said:


> Like G20 London 2009?
> 
> Surely multiple start points which converge on a single destination point are vulnerable to exactly the same type of containment tactics?
> 
> ...


This is what I was kinda getting at in my  last post


----------



## TopCat (Dec 14, 2010)

The action at the G20 protests of converging on bank and then getting kettled smacked of police infiltration or total incompetence or both.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 14, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> This totally. We need a concerted action plan to avoid kettling, and the best I can think of is having different groups of people swarm off to a number of individual target places. Needs the numbers though


 
I've not been to any of these protests, as I can get off work, but I've read about them a lot......

What I can tell is that there's a lot more protestors then there are police, but everyone meets at the same 3 or 4 places and then are guided to where they're 'allowed' to protest, then kettled...... Surely it would be better to have lots of 200-300 sized groups meeting all over the place, then converging all from different directions, it would stretch police resources a very very long way......

If or try and kettle the police...... Now i'd pay to see that


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 14, 2010)

Get out of london


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## Brainaddict (Dec 14, 2010)

sim667 said:


> I've not been to any of these protests, as I can get off work, but I've read about them a lot......
> 
> What I can tell is that there's a lot more protestors then there are police, but everyone meets at the same 3 or 4 places and then are guided to where they're 'allowed' to protest, then kettled...... Surely it would be better to have lots of 200-300 sized groups meeting all over the place, then converging all from different directions, it would stretch police resources a very very long way......


As I said earlier in the thread, a lot of people have had thoughts along these lines but the practicalities of it prove to be difficult. If you organise meeting points beforehand the police will be there, if you try to do it spontaneously groups often find it difficult to move en masse - and in smaller groups are unable to do actions with the protection of numbers. Social networking might provide the chance to do 'organised spontaneity' but no one has come up with the method yet.


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## DrRingDing (Dec 14, 2010)

> Met Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson said the cost of policing the demonstrations is significant and he has been "stripping London out" to meet the demand.



Keep up the good work.


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## Cobbles (Dec 14, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> Keep up the good work.



Wait until the extra policing costs hit the dwindling band of taxpayers - there'll be a load of unpaid assistants volunteering with pick-axe handles out to save costs..........

That's why the fuel tax protest garnered support and this mob of violence obsessed jakeys never will - there was actually a potential for mr and mrs taxpayer to save money if fuel tax was reduced to a less than pointlessly punitive level.


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## jakethesnake (Dec 14, 2010)

Cobbles you are a complete plank.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 14, 2010)

jakethesnake said:


> Cobbles you are a complete troll.



Fix'd, and you're welcome. Don't feed it.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 14, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> Wait until the extra policing costs hit the dwindling band of taxpayers - there'll be a load of unpaid assistants volunteering with pick-axe handles out to save costs..........


Heroes like yourself, Cobbles?
You'd fill your kecks as soon as toddler said "boo" to you.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 14, 2010)

jakethesnake said:


> Cobbles you are a complete plank.


 
Ja, Cobbles ist ein brett.


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