# Going to the USA as your first trip abroad- any reason not to?



## Oswaldtwistle (May 15, 2011)

I've never been abroad, never been on an aeroplane and never held a passport. I'm guessing that's pretty unusual for a man in his late 30s, but anyway....

I've decided I want to do something big for my 40th (three years time), and I'm going to take my first trip abroad. I could go to Paris or Amsterdam, but I've always wanted to see New York. What with peak oil and all, I may never get another chance to see America.

Apart from the small matter of saving up the cash...lots and lots of cash   ...is there any reason not to make the USA one's first trip abroad?

I've no fear of flying, I'm not particularly looking forward to the prospect of an 8 hour flight, but I've done longer coach journeys, albeit with a break.

What, at this early stage, do I need to be thinking about?


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## Belushi (May 15, 2011)

The security checks at the other end are a pain as the Americans are such scaredy cats. Apart from that NYC is awesome and you'll have an amazing time.


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## spring-peeper (May 15, 2011)

You'll have a great time, and don't worry about the length of the flight.  I usually sleep or watch the film.

I recommend that you check into how tipping works, though.  iirc, Brits don't tip at restaurants.


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## spanglechick (May 15, 2011)

spring-peeper said:


> You'll have a great time, and don't worry about the length of the flight.  I usually sleep or watch the film.
> 
> I recommend that you check into how tipping works, though.  iirc, Brits don't tip at restaurants.


 
yeah we do. but we tip 10%-12.5%, and in the states it's 15%. also, we don't tip in bars.

brits tip: in restaurants, cabs, hairdressers (sometimes), anyone who carries your bags in a posh hotel.


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## spanglechick (May 15, 2011)

New York is fab, btw. I love it. But once you have your passport, use it. Get the eurostar to paris for a daytrip or a weekend. Part of the fun of 'abroad' is the differences, and you'll get more of those in non-anglophone countries, ime.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 15, 2011)

Belushi said:


> The security checks at the other end are a pain as the Americans are such scaredy cats. Apart from that NYC is awesome and you'll have an amazing time.


 
Cheers. I figured if I'm perfectly comfortable (which I am) in London, Manchester, Leeds, hell even Nottingham has it's rough bits then I'm not going to find New York so bad. From what I've read it's actually safer than London.


It's ridiculously early stages, but where would be a good place to base myself if a) wanted to be outside New york to commute in at least 4 or 5 times

b) be near long distance rail connections so I  can do day trips to Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington..

I really fancy Hartford but it's too far north for the latter three places. What's Trenton like?


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## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2011)

Buy an English-American phrasebook and dictionary, and perhaps a linguaphone course. You'll get much more out of the trip if you can interact properly with the locals.


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## Maggot (May 15, 2011)

Just remember to check what you are and aren't allowed to take in your hand luggage before you pack. And as Belushi says, be prepared for some hassle from US Imigration officials. You should have a great time, it's a fantastic place.


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## spanglechick (May 15, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> Cheers. I figured if I'm perfectly comfortable (which I am) in London, Manchester, Leeds, hell even Nottingham has it's rough bits then I'm not going to find New York so bad. From what I've read it's actually safer than London.
> 
> 
> It's ridiculously early stages, but where would be a good place to base myself if a) wanted to be outside New york to commute in at least 4 or 5 times
> ...


 
why do you want to be outside new york (and by that do you mean manhattan or NYC/5 boroughs?)


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## skyscraper101 (May 15, 2011)

The whole tipping for everything regardless of the quality of service in America fucks me off.

My tip, the top of the Rockefeller Center is better than the Empire State Building. You get better views of Central Park and you can see the Empire State Building from up high, which obviously you can't if you're up in the Empire State.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 15, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Buy an English-American phrasebook and dictionary, and perhaps a linguaphone course. You'll get much more out of the trip if you can interact properly with the locals.



Yes, good point. As I'm considering Trenton as a base, do they have any New Joisey specific ones I wonder?


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 15, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> why do you want to be outside new york (and by that do you mean manhattan or NYC/5 boroughs?)


 
I want to sample a bit of small town america. I want to buy a cheap second hand bike when I arrive and ride round town and visit WalMart, a neighbourhood bar, a corner shop, a high street, visit a local library and a swimming pool and so on and compare with the UK. I want to rent a car for a day and ride a freeway and commute into New York in the rush hour and drive into mid town Manhatten just for the sheer hell of it.

And I want to ride Amtrak to Philadelphia, Washington and Baltimore and so I need to be south of the city, somewhere with a station





As for your point about using my passport again- no, I won't. That will be that. When this happens I'll have done 40 years without going abroad and when it is over I'll do another 40 or so before I shuffle off this mortal coil so I want this to be a good un. I'm thinking Fall of 2014, before NY gets too cold. I really do intend only to do this once and I want some memories to carry me through the second half of my life and into middle and old age. 

I've just worked out I waste 20 quid a week on booze and takeaways- mostly spent in the corner of a pub staring at football on a screen. I don't even particularly like football, so if I can give that up and multply that by the number of weeks until October 2014 and I've got the potential for a goody


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## quimcunx (May 15, 2011)

take off on an 8 hour flight is a great time to find out you're scared of flying.   

I stayed in New Haven, where Yale is.  Not sure it's quite commuter distance.     I have no recollection whatsoever of my train journeys to and from NY.


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## spanglechick (May 15, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> I want to sample a bit of small town america. I want to buy a cheap second hand bike when I arrive and ride round town and visit WalMart, a neighbourhood bar, a corner shop, a high street, visit a local library and a swimming pool and so on and compare with the UK. I want to rent a car for a day and ride a freeway and commute into New York in the rush hour and drive into mid town Manhatten just for the sheer hell of it.
> 
> And I want to ride Amtrak to Philadelphia, Washington and Baltimore and so I need to be south of the city, somewhere with a station
> 
> ...


 
No value judgements here, but i am curious as to why you only want memories of one trip abroad, one foreign country.


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## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> Yes, good point. As I'm considering Trenton as a base, do they have any New Joisey specific ones I wonder?



Just watch a complete boxed set of the Sopranos and remake yourself as completely as you can as Paulie Walnuts - dress, hair, conversation, manner. If you don't, you will be an eternal outsider in Trneton.


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## Miss Caphat (May 15, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> Cheers. I figured if I'm perfectly comfortable (which I am) in London, Manchester, Leeds, hell even Nottingham has it's rough bits then I'm not going to find New York so bad. From what I've read it's actually safer than London.
> 
> 
> It's ridiculously early stages, but where would be a good place to base myself if a) wanted to be outside New york to commute in at least 4 or 5 times
> ...



I've only driven past Baltimore, but it seems like a vast wasteland of industrial complexes. And Hartford....is okay...i was born there, but I'd recommend Providence, Rhode Island instead for a better city to visit. 

You could always come up to Boston too . Actually, there are a number of bus lines that will take you from New York (stopping at Hartford on the way) to Boston for like $20. IIRC they start in Chinatown, NYC, and end in Chinatown, Boston. If you're interested I can find links for you.


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## spanglechick (May 15, 2011)

Miss Caphat said:


> I've only driven past Baltimore, but it seems like a vast wasteland of industrial complexes. And Hartford....is okay...i was born there, but I'd recommend Providence, Rhode Island instead for a better city to visit.
> 
> You could always come up to Boston too . Actually, there are a number of bus lines that will take you from New York (stopping at Hartford on the way) to Boston for like $20. IIRC they start in Chinatown, NYC, and end in Chinatown, Boston. If you're interested I can find links for you.


 

Baltimore's ok for a daytrip. there's touristy stuff around the harbour.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 15, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> take off on an 8 hour flight is a great time to find out you're scared of flying.


 
Yes, that is the worry. But as far as I can tell, I'm not even remotely scared of flying. The thought of getting on a plane doesn't worry me at all. I do wonder if I should take an internal flight just to be sure, but that is going to take funds from this main project.


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## Miss Caphat (May 15, 2011)

also, the Washington, D.C. area is fantastic...very diverse, and that also means a huge selection of different cuisines to try, fantastic museums, and nice weather...warmer than New England but not as hot and sticky as the south. 

If you go, you have to try the fresh crab meat, it's amazing. (I was just outside of DC a few weeks ago, and we couldn't stop ordering copious amounts of crab cakes)


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## Miss Caphat (May 15, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> take off on an 8 hour flight is a great time to find out you're scared of flying.
> 
> I:


 

I'm sure it will be fine. Also, I don't know if it's just me but every time I 've flown to the UK it's ended up being less time than they said (more like 6 hours than 8)


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## Miss Caphat (May 15, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> Baltimore's ok for a daytrip. there's touristy stuff around the harbour.




ok, I will have to check it out some day.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 15, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> No value judgements here, but i am curious as to why you only want memories of one trip abroad, one foreign country.



Well by definition you only get one holiday of a lifetime. This is going to be mine. Obviously there is a danger of putting all your eggs in one basket if illness strikes, but it's a risk I'm willing to take. 



Miss Caphat said:


> I've only driven past Baltimore, but it seems like a vast wasteland of industrial complexes. And Hartford....is okay...i was born there, but I'd recommend Providence, Rhode Island instead for a better city to visit.


I would only spend 1 day in Baltimore. I may spend no time there at all, of the four cities, it is the one I'm most prepared to sacrifice. But I think there is some colonial history to look at?

Anyway daft as it sounds 'vast wastelands of industrial complexes' are part of America, so I want to see one- just as I want to see the statue of Liberty



> You could always come up to Boston too . Actually, there are a number of bus lines that will take you from New York (stopping at Hartford on the way) to Boston for like $20. IIRC they start in Chinatown, NYC, and end in Chinatown, Boston. If you're interested I can find links for you.


 
I think Boston as well might be a bit much. I'm hoping for a fortnight's worth of fun, but even so.


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## miss direct (May 15, 2011)

You could stay in Brooklyn, easy commute into Manhattan but feels like real America. Plenty of local bars, parks etc.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 15, 2011)

OK what do people think of this for an itinery?

Sat) down to London or Manchester or wherever I'm flying from

Sun)- Flight from UK to Newark International

Mon) Hire car for 2 days, drive around locally and attempt to get used to driving on the wrong side of the road to prepare for tomorrows craziness

Tues) Drive into New York across the Brooklyn Bridge. Madness I'm sure but that's what I want to do. Have you seen the view on Google Streetview? I want to see that for real. Drive into Manhattan, shit myself a few times. Drive back to Trenton and change my underwear.

Wed) Return hire car (assuming I and it have survived!) Try and buy shitty second hand bicycle in Trenton. Check out Wal mart, other local shops and some of the town

Thursday) Go to new york in a more sensible manner (train or bus)and have a look around. Take bike on train if that's allowed? Ride the subway at least once in evening rush hour, for the sheer hell of it 

Friday Philadelphia by train.

Saturday. More time in Trenton. Go for a swim in the local swimming baths, and just see something of a typical American town and compare it with home. Check out a local bar at night and compare the beer with home.

Sunday. Second proper trip to New York

Monday- Baltimore and stay over in a cheap motel perhaps 

Tuesday- Washington and back to Baltimore for the night

Wednesday back to Trenton. Possibly a final look at Philadelphia on the way

Thursday- ?????

Friday last day in new york. If it hasn't been stolen, donate my bike to a bike recycling project. Times Square at night to finish I think

Sat To airport and fly home.



Now will £3000 (about $4500) be enough I wonder? (excluding the flights which I'll credit card)

And is Trenton too far south?


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## Miss Caphat (May 15, 2011)

(in response to post 22)

Ok, you can take that same bus to Hartford, though. 


 I just realized you meant "day trips" in the sense that you'll have one base in NYC that you'll leave in the morning and be back at night. (what else would day trips mean, miss caphat? )

Although, Providence is supposedly only 3.5 hours away from NYC. And if you go during the Summer or early fall, you get to see the Providence "Firewater", which is this festival of lights on the bay. 

http://www.waterfire.org/impressions-waterfire


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## Miss Caphat (May 15, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> OK what do people think of this for an itinery?
> 
> Sat) down to London or Manchester or wherever I'm flying from
> 
> ...



that sounds like a good plan (though I'm a little scared about the driving and cycling around the city-I wouldn't do it myself) 

What about a trip out to Long island or Coney Island or Atlantic City?


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 15, 2011)

Miss Caphat said:


> that sounds like a good plan (though I'm a little scared about the driving and cycling around the city-I wouldn't do it myself)



I'm a lot scared about it. Potentially I might chicken out of driving in NYC. But that, ideally would be how I would first see New York, driving over the Brooklyn Bridge.



> What about a trip out to Long island or Coney Island or Atlantic City?


 
Good idea. I would like to see some coast line and compare it with the British seaside.


Any thoughts people if that lot is realistic on a 3 grand (£20 a week for 3 years) budget?


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## pianissimo (May 15, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> Well by definition you only get one holiday of a lifetime. This is going to be mine. Obviously there is a danger of putting all your eggs in one basket if illness strikes, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.


 
That is rather odd.  I'm also curious as to why?
Is it a language issue you concern?
You wouldn't never travel to other places after USA for another 40 years?

Anyway...

Why not the west coast too?  I rather like San Francisco.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 15, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> That is rather odd.  I'm also curious as to why?



Mid life crisis? Wanting something to look forward to? I dunno. But I want to do it, and I don't see why not, if 3 grand is enough money.




> Why not the west coast too?  I rather like San Francisco.


 
Time and budget. I'd rather see the East coast properly.


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## Miss Caphat (May 16, 2011)

it is a little bit disconcerting..

Being from here, I would wish for a visitor to see...the Fall in a b&b in Vermont; New York or D.C. in the Spring; Colorado in the Winter, New Orleans, San Francisco, Boston: any time of year, a road trip down south or to the west coast, and so on, and so on...there's just so much to see here. 

but it seems like a decent itinerary to start with.  p.s. i think your budget will be fine. I hope you have a wonderful trip!


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## Miss Caphat (May 16, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> I'm a lot scared about it. Potentially I might chicken out of driving in NYC. But that, ideally would be how I would first see New York, driving over the Brooklyn Bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the views from the bridges are certainly very nice, and I don't know if there's another way to see them without driving..maybe ask the editor?


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 16, 2011)

Worryingly I've slept on this twice now, and it still seems a good idea 



Miss Caphat said:


> the views from the bridges are certainly very nice, and I don't know if there's another way to see them without driving..maybe ask the editor?


 
I could obviously take a taxi but as a bit of a transport anorak, there is a little bit of me that quite fancies the madness of a New York morning rush hour.  


Two final questions (for now) 

1) Would East  Brunswick be better as a base than Trenton, given that I intend to make more trips to NYC than anywhere else? Anyone ever experienced either town?
My options are limited by the need to be on the railway line to Phil/Balt/Washington

2) How far in advance can you book flights? Obviously not three years in advance, but I'd like to get myself committed to this as soon as possible, so I don't change my mind


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## Maggot (May 16, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> I've just worked out I waste 20 quid a week on booze and takeaways- mostly spent in the corner of a pub staring at football on a screen. I don't even particularly like football, so if I can give that up and multply that by the number of weeks until October 2014 and I've got the potential for a goody


 


Oswaldtwistle said:


> OK what do people think of this for an itinery?
> 
> Sat) down to London or Manchester or wherever I'm flying from
> 
> ...



I can't believe you're doing that much detailed planning on something which you're not gonna do for 3 1/2 years!

£3000 is too much money (unless you're planning to stay in some really high class hotels).  You could easily do the trip on half that amount and go much sooner.


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## dessiato (May 16, 2011)

In my experience there are very few problems with getting through immigration as long as you have done the paperwork properly. I tip at twenty percent, simply because it is easy to work out, and if you are going to visit the same restaurant regularly during your trip they will remember you and forgive you if one day you under-tip. Language differences are minimal, so don't worry about that.

I would suggest that you do a few trips once you've got you passport though. Why spend all that money and not use it as much as you can afford? There's a whole world out there, all ready for you to explore.


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## sleaterkinney (May 16, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> Well by definition you only get one holiday of a lifetime.


 That's a bit of a bizarre way of looking at it, you could book a flight to europe on ryanair, stay in cheap hotels and have a good holiday cheaply.


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## marty21 (May 16, 2011)

spring-peeper said:


> I recommend that you check into how tipping works, though.  iirc, Brits don't tip at restaurants.



they do tip at restaurants


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 16, 2011)

Maggot said:


> I can't believe you're doing that much detailed planning on something which you're not gonna do for 3 1/2 years!


What is wrong with having something to look forward to?  3 and a half years will fly by- 2008 feels like yesterday- heck 2005 feels like yesterday!

Like I say- only get one holiday of a lifetime!




sleaterkinney said:


> That's a bit of a bizarre way of looking at it, you could book a flight to europe on ryanair, .


 
But I don't want to go to Europe on Ryanair.  I want to go to New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia and Washington. And I'm planning on doing just that in 2014.


(rant alert!)
Going to the other side of the world in an aeroplane *should* be a big deal. It should be something to get excited about, months and years in advance. And to talk about years after wards.  My dad still talks about his trip through Europe in a landrover in 1970. My Grandad talked about his WWII* exploits in India and Africa until he died

I think we've lost that 


*Just to make it crystal clear, I am in no way suggesting World Wars are a good thing. My grandad was very lucky- he was in REME away from the front line and saw lots of places with virtually no action


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## Kanda (May 16, 2011)

You have to do the Rocky steps if you go to Philly


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## TruXta (May 16, 2011)

FACT: I went to Philly and didn't even _see_ the Rocky steps.


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## sleaterkinney (May 16, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> But I don't want to go to Europe on Ryanair.  I want to go to New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia and Washington. And I'm planning on doing just that in 2014.
> 
> 
> (rant alert!)
> ...


Why the sad face?. We are travelling more and experiencing a lot more than they did back then, it doesn't make the places we go to less interesting.


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## Yuwipi Woman (May 16, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> I want to sample a bit of small town america. I want to buy a cheap second hand bike when I arrive and ride round town and _visit WalMart_, ....


 
Don't get too crazy there pardner.


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## Yuwipi Woman (May 16, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> I've decided I want to do something big for my 40th (three years time), and I'm going to take my first trip abroad. I could go to Paris or Amsterdam, but I've always wanted to see New York. What with peak oil and all, I may never get another chance to see America.


 
Near as I can figure, Paris is about the same distance from London as Omaha is from Wichita.  If I lived that close I'd be going to Paris a couple times a year.


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## davesgcr (May 16, 2011)

New York is wonderful , I have been obsessed with it all muy life - I can bore anyone to death with it ! 

Your plan sounds good , great even -I have never driven in NYC , but have been driven around by a local and I think its easier than London ! (a bit faster maybe) - you have to the subway to Coney Island , or even the Bronx (yes  - its safe these days)   

NYC is not America - but its very unique - I reccomend Brooklyn as a base - not New Joisey , and try taking the train out from Grand Central to Cold Spring (Metro North) - its up the Hudson on the route to Albany , a superb little 19thC small town America town - and an epic ride.   

I didnt see America till I was 25 in 1984 - my kids have seen it in their teens - they have only been to Washington and NYC - plus the train in between - and they are hooked. 

Manhatten and the cities are not the true spirit of the USA - but in any case , well worth seeing.  

Have a great trip - and post photos when you do it


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 16, 2011)

It was the first place I went abroad to if you don't count a lunch trip on la sea cat to some where or other in France. 
It's pretty boring. But then I don't really like traveling and exploring. Probably why I didn't go until I was 27 or something.


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## petee (May 16, 2011)

the flight should be a little shorter than 8 hours, but DO walk around the plane a few times while in flight or you could have leg issues the day after you land



Oswaldtwistle said:


> I want to sample a bit of small town america.



in new jersey you might try princeton and the other prosperous towns thereabouts, though the small-town america of storybook is found better north of nyc, in the hudson valley and new england. an odd/beautiful feature of central nj (if you stay there) is the pine barrens. trenton is a hole; if you want to take in the northeast corridor (DC, balto, phila, nyc, boston) stay in philadelphia as DC is farther than a day trip from manhattan. in fact center city phila would be a lovely place to be centered. but consider, while amtrak will leave you very conveniently in nyc and DC, it won't in phila, you'll need to ride their unlovely subways to get to the train station, which itself isn't near anything special.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 16, 2011)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Don't get too crazy there pardner.



LOL. But it's this sort of thing I want to do, as well as seeing the tourist stuff. Little things like what different brands are in the supermarkets, how much things cost, what shops are in the malls and how they compare with home. This sort of stuff facinates me.



davesgcr said:


> New York is wonderful , I have been obsessed with it all muy life - I can bore anyone to death with it !
> 
> Your plan sounds good , great even -I have never driven in NYC , but have been driven around by a local and I think its easier than London ! (a bit faster maybe) -



That is my understanding too- no roundabouts for a start, and a simple grid pattern.



> I reccomend Brooklyn as a base - not New Joisey


The reason I want NJ as a base is to be on the train line to Philly/Balt/Washington. That restricts me to Trenton or New Brunswick, pretty much.


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## Miss Caphat (May 16, 2011)

Maggot said:


> I can't believe you're doing that much detailed planning on something which you're not gonna do for 3 1/2 years!
> 
> £3000 is too much money (unless you're planning to stay in some really high class hotels).  You could easily do the trip on half that amount and go much sooner.


 

true...also, you could look at "extended stay" hotels, because they have kitchens in them, and cook some of your meals there. They cost about the same or less as regular hotels.


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## Miss Caphat (May 16, 2011)

dessiato said:


> In my experience there are very few problems with getting through immigration as long as you have done the paperwork properly. I tip at twenty percent, simply because it is easy to work out, and if you are going to visit the same restaurant regularly during your trip they will remember you and forgive you if one day you under-tip. Language differences are minimal, so don't worry about that.
> 
> I would suggest that you do a few trips once you've got you passport though. Why spend all that money and not use it as much as you can afford? There's a whole world out there, all ready for you to explore.



*about tipping (for anyone interested)*
Tipping generally is %20 at the fancier places, or for great service at less expensive restaurants. 15% is customary for less expensive restaurants. You only have to tip at restaurants where you have a waiter/waitress who comes to your table, takes your order, and brings your food. Also, it is expected that you tip your bartender for drinks you order from them, $1 or so per drink. 
It is nice to tip hotel cleaning staff, but not necessary unless it's a very "posh' hotel. Definitely tip room service and the people who take your bags up (I forget what they're called)

Tip food and pizza delivery people, generally 15% but it will be less that you tip a waiter generally, as your food bill will be less $. 

Tip cab drivers about 15% too


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## Miss Caphat (May 17, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> Worryingly I've slept on this twice now, and it still seems a good idea
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Sadly, I don't have answers to any of those questions. Oh, the one thing I can tell you is traffic might be less of a "rush" and more like total gridlock.


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## spanglechick (May 17, 2011)

Miss Caphat said:


> *about tipping (for anyone interested)*
> Tipping generally is %20 at the fancier places, or for great service at less expensive restaurants. 15% is customary for less expensive restaurants. You only have to tip at restaurants where you have a waiter/waitress who comes to your table, takes your order, and brings your food. Also, it is expected that you tip your bartender for drinks you order from them, $1 or so per drink.
> It is nice to tip hotel cleaning staff, but not necessary unless it's a very "posh' hotel. Definitely tip room service and the people who take your bags up (I forget what they're called)
> 
> ...


 
it's the barstaff tipping that seems most odd. I wish we'd have had that system when i worked behind bars. They must be making at least $50-100 a night on top of minimum wage anywhere remotely busy. Do you have to declare tips for tax?


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## Miss Caphat (May 17, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> it's the barstaff tipping that seems most odd. I wish we'd have had that system when i worked behind bars. They must be making at least $50-100 a night on top of minimum wage anywhere remotely busy. Do you have to declare tips for tax?



yup, more like $300-600 in a place that's steadily busy on a weekend night. Many people who do it see it as a career. you do have to declare some tips, but just like waitressing, the minimum wage for servers is actually lower than regular minimum wage (about 1/2 iirc) and you have to declare your tips to the point where they at least equal minimum wage, but most don't declare much more than that.


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## scifisam (May 17, 2011)

You want to stay in Trenton? Read the Janet Evanovich Stephanie Plum books. Invaluable local knowledge.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 17, 2011)

Are you expected to tip in regular neighbourhood bars then?


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## twistedAM (May 17, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> Are you expected to tip in regular neighbourhood bars then?



Yeah.


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## Miss Caphat (May 17, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> Are you expected to tip in regular neighbourhood bars then?



yes, every single bar everywhere. unless you want to get punched (not by the bartender, but I'd imagine word would get around the bar that you weren't tipping and some drunk guy would see that as a good reason to start something w/ you)


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## Yuwipi Woman (May 17, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> it's the barstaff tipping that seems most odd. I wish we'd have had that system when i worked behind bars. They must be making at least $50-100 a night on top of minimum wage anywhere remotely busy. Do you have to declare tips for tax?


 
Last time I checked the minimum wage for waitstaff was $2.10 and hour.  They're expected to make up the difference in tips, some of which can be skimmed by management.  The IRS assumes that they made 15% in tips.  If they didn't they still have to pay the tax or convince the IRS they didn't acutally make that much.  It's a difficult job that deserves better pay than they get, IMHO.


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## phildwyer (May 17, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's pretty boring. But then I don't really like traveling and exploring.



If all you can say about the USA ıs 'ıt's pretty borıng,' I'd say you don't really lıke much of _anythıng._ 

You must have the curıosıty of a clod.


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## Maggot (May 17, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> What is wrong with having something to look forward to?  3 and a half years will fly by- 2008 feels like yesterday- heck 2005 feels like yesterday!
> 
> Like I say- only get one holiday of a lifetime!



But of you read the rest of my post you could go much sooner. And only be looking forward for 18 months not over 3 years.



Maggot said:


> I can't believe you're doing that much detailed planning on something which you're not gonna do for 3 1/2 years!
> 
> £3000 is too much money (unless you're planning to stay in some really high class hotels).  You could easily do the trip on half that amount and go much sooner.



You might decide you like foreign travel so much you want to go somewhere else.

This idea that you can only do this once because 'you only get one holiday of a lifetime' is very strange, you are denying yourself lots of other pleasurable holidays.


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## Belushi (May 17, 2011)

Maggot said:


> This idea that you can only do this once because 'you only get one holiday of a lifetime' is very strange, you are denying yourself lots of other pleasurable holidays.


 
I'm baffled by it, its like being nostalgic for rickets or something.


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## DotCommunist (May 17, 2011)

Miss Caphat said:


> yes, every single bar everywhere. unless you want to get punched (not by the bartender, but I'd imagine word would get around the bar that you weren't tipping and some drunk guy would see that as a good reason to start something w/ you)


 
I know it's cultural (which makes it worse) but why can't the bosses just pay a decent wage rather than relying on the largess of his customers to provide staff with a living? Such practises breed servility rather than civility between equals. I mean, I've never been shy of taking a tip but it was always safe in the knowledge that if I didn't get any tips I still had enough wages and till-skimmings to get by in the style I am accustomed to.


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## trashpony (May 17, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I know it's cultural (which makes it worse) but why can't the bosses just pay a decent wage rather than relying on the largess of his customers to provide staff with a living? Such practises breed servility rather than civility between equals. I mean, I've never been shy of taking a tip but it was always safe in the knowledge that if I didn't get any tips I still had enough wages and till-skimmings to get by in the style I am accustomed to.


 
The thing I found _really_ annoying when I was a cocktail waitress in LA (I know, it's a bit unlikely but it's true) was that at the end of the night, I had to give 50% of my tips to the bar staff and bar backs. So I made all the effort and they got 50% of my work. Fuck that for a laugh, that's why I went to work at a dry cleaners instead


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 17, 2011)

trashpony said:


> The thing I found _really_ annoying when I was a cocktail waitress in LA (I know, it's a bit unlikely but it's true) was that at the end of the night, I had to give 50% of my tips to the bar staff and bar backs. So I made all the effort and they got 50% of my work. Fuck that for a laugh, that's why I went to work at a dry cleaners instead


 

How did you manage to do that (assuming you were doing so legally).





			
				maggot said:
			
		

> You might decide you like foreign travel so much you want to go somewhere else.



Well then I will have to wait until I shuffle off this mortal coil, won't I? Although knowing my luck I'll be going downstairs rather than up


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 17, 2011)

phildwyer said:


> If all you can say about the USA ıs 'ıt's pretty borıng,' I'd say you don't really lıke much of _anythıng._
> 
> You must have the curıosıty of a clod.


 
I said it of New York not the USA. I have only been to Hawaii (which is worse BTW) and new york so I don't think I can comment that much about travels across the 'USA'. I'm not interested in being a tourist, I like living in places or being there for a reason. There is not enough about new york that is different enough for me to be all that interested in. I think I have been enough times on work and visits to friends to come to this conclusion about my opinions of the area. Yeah I know loads of people that love new york, but then again I don't massively like London all that much either and it's not even as good as that. 

Anyway, I guess we just like different things. For instance, I don't like wasting my time ghosting people who have challenged my weak but extremely egotistical pseudo intellectual claptrap around message boards with limp child like insults, but you, you just loves it. Different strokes etc.


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## Miss Caphat (May 17, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I know it's cultural (which makes it worse) but why can't the bosses just pay a decent wage rather than relying on the largess of his customers to provide staff with a living? Such practises breed servility rather than civility between equals. I mean, I've never been shy of taking a tip but it was always safe in the knowledge that if I didn't get any tips I still had enough wages and till-skimmings to get by in the style I am accustomed to.


 

I don't know but, A) food is on average less expensive in the US, so it's not exactly breaking the bank to tip, or keeping customers away. B.) There is definitely sense to what you say, _but_ because of the system (of tipping) it is one area in which normally marginalized people (young people, students, otherwise unskilled people, etc) can and often do make a decent living, working flexible hours. The restaurants get cheaper help, and being an industry that's very risky, that is part of what allows them to stay open, which in turn keeps the number of jobs for waitstaff high.

I actually waited tables in the UK, and ime, doing it in the US is about 100x more lucrative.


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## Miss Caphat (May 17, 2011)

Thinking about it further, I do think tipping makes a lot of sense. waitstaff, bartenders, etc work their butts off, but in short shifts, 4 or 5 hours. Even if you paid them a high wage, but one that was affordable to the restaurant owners, they'd still make less money than most people.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (May 17, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> yeah we do. but we tip 10%-12.5%, and in the states it's 15%. also, we don't tip in bars.


 

My kid's a server; all the servers groan on the inside when the people at the table speak with british accents. Brits are known to be notoriously bad tippers. Even germans are better.


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## lang rabbie (May 18, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> OK what do people think of this for an itinery?
> 
> Sun)- Flight from UK to Newark International
> 
> ...



Slight problem - Newark Airport is in New Jersey -* west of Manhattan Island*.    Brooklyn NYC is *east of Manhattan Island*.   

If you really want your first approach to Manhattan to be driving over the Brooklyn Bridge you will need to drive a fair way north going past the George Washington Bridge, and go up the Palisades Parkway  and turn onto I87  to cross the Hudson River on the Tappan Zee bridge.

Stick with I87 when it diverges from I287 to become the Thomas E Dewey Thruway through Westchester County into the Bronx then take I278 over the Robert F Kennedy bridge.  I278 continues as the Brooklyn Queens Expressway to the Brooklyn Bridge.

OR... you could accept that this is a mad idea to see New York by car, and that the best view of the Brooklyn Bridge is on foot or by cycle on the central path

Just book a cheap base to stay in New Jersey and travel into NYC by Amtrak/PATH train/subway.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 18, 2011)

lang rabbie said:


> Slight problem - Newark Airport is in New Jersey -* west of Manhattan Island*.    Brooklyn NYC is *east of Manhattan Island*.



I would proberbly fly into Newark on the Sunday, get public transport to my hotel inTrenton or New Brunswick then hire a car there on the Monday morning. That would at least give me chance to spend that day getting used to automatic tranmission and being on the wrong side of the road before hitting NYC on the tuesday.



> OR... you could accept that this is a mad idea to see New York by car, and that the best view of the Brooklyn Bridge is on foot or by cycle on the central path



Oh it's an utterly bonkers idea. One that makes the Mad Hatter himself look the perfect picture of sanity. This is the part of the trip I'm most likely to chicken out of. But ideally this is how I would first like to see New York. 




> Just book a cheap base to stay in New Jersey and travel into NYC by Amtrak/PATH train/subway.


 That's what I will be doing the rest of the time.


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## phildwyer (May 18, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> There is not enough about new york that is different enough for me to be all that interested in.



Yes there ıs.  There really really ıs.  If you fınd New York Cıty borıng the problem ıs wıth you.


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## trashpony (May 18, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> How did you manage to do that (assuming you were doing so legally).


 
No, of course I wasn't working legally


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## abe11825 (May 18, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Buy an English-American phrasebook and dictionary, and perhaps a linguaphone course. You'll get much more out of the trip if you can interact properly with the locals.


 
I don't think redneck country was an option.... 



Miss Caphat said:


> Although, Providence is supposedly only 3.5 hours away from NYC. And if you go during the Summer or early fall, you get to see the Providence "Firewater", which is this festival of lights on the bay.
> 
> http://www.waterfire.org/impressions-waterfire


 
Waterfire was interesting... didn't really suit my fancy, tbh. But we all have our opinions...


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## openheartsoftly (May 22, 2011)

You should, if you haven't already, look for a message board similar to this one that's predominantly American. Reading and interacting there may address many of your questions & help with you planning. It also may connect you with people who are in the areas you want to visit and can give you reccomendations based on first hand experiences. 

That's why I'm here ... because I intend to travel that direction in a year or two and reading here will help me familiarize with everyday terms,  how people there react and relate to people here - all kinds of stuff. 

It also may show you stuff you didn't or otherwise wouldn't have thought of that you'll want to prepare for - can't think of anything but I don't live in NY or any of the places you mention wanting to see in th US. 

I've only been reading here a few weeks and I've learned a few things already.


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## Belushi (May 22, 2011)

> reading here will help me familiarize with everyday terms, how people there react and relate to people here



I'm not sure were a reprentative sample of the British public tbh


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## skyscraper101 (May 23, 2011)

The best place to enter Manhattan from isn't from JFK via brooklyn anyway. Newark is much better (and just as close) - a nice 20-30 minute drive and you see the beautiful Manhattan skyline approach you as you drive down the New Jersey turnpike. Then if you turn off through Jersey itself you go through the Holland tunnel for 5 mins before emerging into the awesomeness of lower Manhattan.

First time I ever went I got one of those cheap blue airport shuttle vans which carry 10 or so others staying at various places in town. As I was staying up on the upper east side I was last to get dropped off which meant I got to do a free mini tour of Manhattan riding up front in a big people carrier. Absolutely brilliant way to arrive. The drive from JFK to Manhattan isn't quite as interesting.


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## 1927 (May 23, 2011)

lang rabbie said:


> Slight problem - Newark Airport is in New Jersey -* west of Manhattan Island*.    Brooklyn NYC is *east of Manhattan Island*.
> 
> If you really want your first approach to Manhattan to be driving over the Brooklyn Bridge you will need to drive a fair way north going past the George Washington Bridge, and go up the Palisades Parkway  and turn onto I87  to cross the Hudson River on the Tappan Zee bridge.
> 
> ...


 
I was waiting for someone to notice this flaw in the plan. FWIW what I would do is fly into JFK,stay in Brooklyn and take a couple of day trips into NYC. Then when you are ready to drive to your next destination hire a car at JFK and drive into NYC over Brooklyn bridge and straight through Manhattan exiting onto the New Jersey Turnpike via the Holland Tunnel, thats what I did last time. No point i hiring a car and having it sat on the street doing nothing while you get trains or buses into Manhattan!


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## 1927 (May 23, 2011)

phildwyer said:


> Yes there ıs.  There really really ıs.  If you fınd New York Cıty borıng the problem ıs wıth you.


 
Agree 100%. Had a friend who went a few years ago on my rccomendation and she was most unimpressed. I changed my opinion of her after that!


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## Gavin Bl (Jun 4, 2011)

Oswald, this is the strangest thread - NYC is wonderful, absolutely. Mind you, if I had the choice and 3k to burn I would do a west coast road trip.

I've had fab holidays on cheap packages to spain, where you just take advantage of the flight-hotel deal, then take the local bus or train, to fabulous places like Seville and Granada. You could do that even sooner.

if you are set on NY, a nice alternative is to go north, in the Autumn from NY - see Niagara, the leaves in fall (really special), or maybe something like see Boston, or Toronto/Montreal.

I appreciate that you want something to look forward too, and to plan that - but 3 years off, seems pretty mad tbh.

I've gotta say, if I spent 3 years planning and saving for the trip of a life time - the lincoln memorial in dc, sure. niagara, of course. But, Baltimore??


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## Oswaldtwistle (Jun 4, 2011)

Gavin Bl said:


> I appreciate that you want something to look forward too, and to plan that - but 3 years off, seems pretty mad tbh.



I've already dealt with this, but I don't really consider 3 years that long. 2008 seems like yesterday to me.So 'tommorow' I'm going to America.



> I've gotta say, if I spent 3 years planning and saving for the trip of a life time - the lincoln memorial in dc, sure. niagara, of course. But, Baltimore??


 
Now, that, I accept, is weird. So am I. I don't just want to see the obvious tourist stuff- I'm fancinated by the everyday america. Same as when I go to London. I've never been around Buckingham Palace nor to Madame Tussauds or on the London Eye. But I've been to Woolwich, Hillingdon, Southall,Tower Hamlets and obviously Brixton.

It's my holiday and that's what I want to do.


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## geminisnake (Jun 4, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> It's my holiday and that's what I want to do.


 
So do it!! Ignore the nay sayers. I have absolutley NO desire to ever go to NYC, the idea fills me with horror but I don't like cities and the idea of a massive city with massive skyscapers is one of my ideas of hell!
The only bit of the states that has ever interested my is the pretty tree bit, think it's New England.


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## 1927 (Jun 4, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> I've already dealt with this, but I don't really consider 3 years that long. 2008 seems like yesterday to me.So 'tommorow' I'm going to America.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
FWIW last year I was driving to Washington and saw a sign for Baltimore, and I thought what the hell lets go to Baltimore. One of the highlights of the trip.Loved the area down by the docks, beautiful food, inexpensive and lovely people. Do it!


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## petee (Jun 5, 2011)

1927 said:


> FWIW last year I was driving to Washington and saw a sign for Baltimore, and I thought what the hell lets go to Baltimore. One of the highlights of the trip.Loved the area down by the docks, beautiful food, inexpensive and lovely people. Do it!


 
also visit the mount vernon area, home of the walters gallery and red emma's coffeehouse


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## ymu (Jun 5, 2011)

OP, on that budget, save up some annual leave and take 6 weeks. You only need about a grand for that plan: £50/day + 50% extra for expensive treats and travel is masses when you will inly need cheap guesthouses and eating out is very cheap.

Add a week on the west coast, a week in cowboy country, a few days in Alaska and the rest in the deep south. If it's a one shot deal, make the most of it.

Tip: to get offered weed instantly, smoke rollies in public. 



trashpony said:


> The thing I found _really_ annoying when I was a cocktail waitress in LA (I know, it's a bit unlikely but it's true) was that at the end of the night, I had to give 50% of my tips to the bar staff and bar backs. So I made all the effort and they got 50% of my work. Fuck that for a laugh, that's why I went to work at a dry cleaners instead


 
It's standard practice everywhere for waiters/bartenders to share tips with those in the kitchen and cellar. Front-room can't earn the tips without backroom. It's why you pay more in an expensive place: it's expensive because more time went into preparation and service, so more people to get paid. I never worked anywhere you could keep your tips, but only one place pocketed any for management.


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## ymu (Jun 5, 2011)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> My kid's a server; all the servers groan on the inside when the people at the table speak with british accents. Brits are known to be notoriously bad tippers. Even germans are better.


Because tipping is different here. Minimum wage is ~$9 for everyone over 21. People aren't surviving off tips and it's seen as an optional extra for good service, not payment for services rendered, which we (correctly) assume is already included in the bill. It's also often abused here, with management keeping it to pay the wages. I had people refuse to tip because I had to share the tip, and I won't tip anywhere that management pockets it (or tip via the card payment unless that gets passed on).

There's, broadly, three attitudes to tipping in the UK:

1. Only if deserved in some way, and amount depends how great the service was.

2. 10-15% but rarely as high as 20%, regardless of service because the pay is shit (with or without checking who gets it)

3. No tipping ever cos it just encourages shit wages.

Many hospitality staff are effectively self-employed in the US. Their costs include paying the restaurant for supplying the premises and kitchen (some buy their stations, some hand over half their tips or a set amount). Even when we had no minimum wage, this is a set-up we just didn't have. People are a bit better informed these days, but it will be hit and miss.

We stayed at a cheap UK hotel which gave us a 20% discount on breakfast at the local 'diner' once. They were great and fussed over getting it just right for my fussy partner, so I paid the bill in full and handed bthe discount card over for them to claim as a tip. The lady behind the till nearly fell over backwards.

A cabby in Krakow was much the same. He'd hung around a lot for us and we had more people than we said when booking, so we agreed we'd all pay the same per head as we originally expected, to give him a good tip, of about 20% as it was 12 instead of 10. He ran around waving his arms in the air and kissing everyone. 

Tipping is just different in North America. I can totally understand why they hate us though.


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## Gavin Bl (Jun 5, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> It's my holiday and that's what I want to do.



Fair enough, knock yourself out, but you are on here asking for opinions - and as I would suggest to any visiting American that they cold probably miss out Sheffield, I'd suggest the same to you about Baltimore. You're spending 3 years planning and saving for this, so I'd genuinely like it to 'rock your world' as the young people say.

you should definitely go down to Buck House and the London Eye, its well worth it.


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## trashpony (Jun 6, 2011)

ymu said:


> It's standard practice everywhere for waiters/bartenders to share tips with those in the kitchen and cellar. Front-room can't earn the tips without backroom. It's why you pay more in an expensive place: it's expensive because more time went into preparation and service, so more people to get paid. I never worked anywhere you could keep your tips, but only one place pocketed any for management.


 
Err, yes, I know that. Except that in the US it's a one way street. The bar staff also get tipped when they serve drinks direct but don't share their tips with the waiting staff. 

And taking orders from people on the dance floor saying 'can you ask that woman over there what she wants to drink?' and fighting your way across the dancefloor, asking the woman, getting the drink, taking it to the woman then fighting your way back to the original person to get paid, and getting tipped exactly the same amount as you would do if you were standing behind a bar but then you get to keep your tips, is really fucking irritating. It was fucking impossible to get a job behind the bar.


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## London_Calling (Jun 7, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> What, at this early stage, do I need to be thinking about?


 In New York? Condoms, Viagra and wearing your cock out.


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## twistedAM (Jun 7, 2011)

ymu said:


> Add a week on the west coast, a week in cowboy country, a few days in Alaska and the rest in the deep south. If it's a one shot deal, make the most of it.



A few days in Alaska? You;re going to experience naff all in that time and it'll severely affect the budget.
I feel a roadtrip coming on and trying to make this itinerary work in 3 weeks; based mostly around staying with friends:

Fly to Halifax, Nova Scotia; stay for 2-3 days
Internal flight to Sault St Marie
- Drive the entirety of the Upper Peninsula on the Superior shore
- Stop for a night somewhere in Wisconsin, prob  Madison
- Few days in Chicago
- Day in Detroit
- Long boring day driving through Ohio or Indiana and the more pleasant Kentucky to a...
- Few days in Nashville!!
- Drive the Natchez Trace thru Mississippi
- Skip New Orleans due to time but drive the coast to a...
- Few days in Austin
- Fly home


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## Steel Icarus (Jun 7, 2011)

Just to chip in and say New York was my first time abroad, age 26; first time on a plane and all that. Was excellent.


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## Oswaldtwistle (Jun 10, 2011)

Gavin Bl said:


> Fair enough, knock yourself out, but you are on here asking for opinions - and as I would suggest to any visiting American that they could probably miss out Sheffield,


 
Could they? 

Where would the industrial world be without steel?

And now that the steel is gone, what has epitomised the problems for working class men in post industrial society more than 'The Full Monty'?


Not trying to be arsey or smart here, purely pointing out that just as there is more to see in England than Oxford's dreaming spires and picture postcard countryside, so I want to see something other than autumn leaves in New England and Niagra Falls.


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 12, 2011)

ymu said:


> Because tipping is different here. Minimum wage is ~$9 for everyone over 21. People aren't surviving off tips ....(



okay, but 9 x 4 is only 36 pounds, for a normal shift. Compared to what a waitress, etc could make in a 4 hour shift, the pay is generally much better here, which is good because no-one really works a full day at a restaurant besides the manager maybe . Also, when I worked in the UK for minimum wage, it seemed like such a great deal. Except for the fact that pretty much everything is like 2x more expensive over there, so it seemed on par with US minimum wage tbh. 

also, refusing/forgetting to tip while in America is hardly doing anything to help the situation, is it?


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## twistedAM (Jun 16, 2011)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> Could they?
> 
> Where would the industrial world be without steel?
> 
> ...



Sheffield's opposite number in the US, Pittsburgh, is a great city. 
And actually a very pretty one too.

I'd also recommend Detroit. Been there about 5 or 6 times with work and always had a really good time (my fave team is the Wings and I actually met them in a well posh hotel I was staying in) but it's quite an eye opener in terms of  capitalism and social planning.


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## Susanfree (Aug 28, 2011)

For first timers, here are a few places of interest


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 28, 2011)

ymu said:


> Because tipping is different here. Minimum wage is ~$9 for everyone over 21. People aren't surviving off tips and it's seen as an optional extra for good service, not payment for services rendered, which we (correctly) assume is already included in the bill. It's also often abused here, with management keeping it to pay the wages. I had people refuse to tip because I had to share the tip, and I won't tip anywhere that management pockets it (or tip via the card payment unless that gets passed on).
> 
> There's, broadly, three attitudes to tipping in the UK:
> 
> ...



One of those truisms of travelling though, is 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'. That means, do a little research before you come, learn how things are done here, then you won't come across as a nation of cheap bastards.

Btw, the minimum wage here is $8.75, going up to $10.25 in May. Even so, neither your nor our minimum wage is a lot of money, and I don't begrudge wait staff a tip.

As for the effect on wages, I suspect that all that happens without tipping, is that wait staff receives a crappy wage, but nothing extra.

Hospitality staff here aren't self employed. They don't pay the restaurants for supplying a premises. They often give a small percentage of the tips to the kitchen and bus staff: but that's fair, isn't it?


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