# General Election 2015 - chat, predictions, results and post election discussion



## brogdale (Mar 30, 2015)

Thought this might be a good idea, if only to save the Polling thread from getting clogged up with other guff...howsomedever...they're off!

There he goes...you'd think in this day and age, (when they don't even have to go to see her), that they'd avoid having this image spread across the media. But hey, there he goes...leaving No.10. 







Enjoy, and try to play nicely.


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## Looby (Mar 30, 2015)

Take away all the obvious problems with our electoral system and the failings of all the mainstream parties, I bloody love election time. 

I know it's really sad but I find it all very exciting and have made my husband book 8 May off so we can stay up all night. [emoji33] [emoji1]


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2015)

heh was tempted to start the thread myself. 

I'm hoping for ever more ludicrous shenannigans like the edl march that never was. Boots found stuffed with postal votes would also be funny.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2015)

sparklefish said:


> Take away all the obvious problems with our electoral system and the failings of all the mainstream parties, I bloody love election time.
> 
> I know it's really sad but I find it all very exciting and have made my husband book 8 May off so we can stay up all night. [emoji33] [emoji1]




Jeremy Vine and the CGI landscapes 

I never make it past 3am on count day


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## Looby (Mar 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Jeremy Vine and the CGI landscapes
> 
> I never make it past 3am on count day


I have insomnia so it usually wouldn't be a problem. You can guarantee I'll sleep like a baby that night. [emoji35]

There might be some tactical napping.


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## Hocus Eye. (Mar 30, 2015)

I used to like elections when I was an active member of one of the parties in the days when you could tell them apart. I "attended the count" many times. After weeks of trudging the streets it was a high point but you knew that that the whole thing would be repeated the following year for the local elections. I wasted 18 years of my life trying to get rid of Thatcher. When Blair came to the throne I gave up in despair.


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## bemused (Mar 30, 2015)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I used to like elections when I was an active member of one of the parties in the days when you could tell them apart.



That's the problem for me as well. I can't get too invested when they are so similar.


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## Teaboy (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm interested in the outcome but all the crap leading up to it bores me senseless these days.  I think this could be the worst campaign yet for a total lack of clearly defined policies.


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## marty21 (Mar 30, 2015)

I have booked the day after off and as usual will be up all night  it will be fascinating and probably the start of a lot of coalition negotiations if it goes as expected. Plus you will likely get the Tory leadership unofficial campaign as the big guns try and get more tv time to show what a great leader they could be. Tories will be gunning for Farage in Thanet, they reckon if they decapitate him there, UKIP will fold, which is probably true, none of the other 'leading' kippers have his ease with the media and public.


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## gosub (Mar 30, 2015)

bemused said:


> That's the problem for me as well. I can't get too invested when they are so similar.



I think we have entered a new phase though, they are refusing to say what they will actually do. Though as we reached the point 10 years ago where manifesto commitments were non binding, its not like you could believe what they were saying if they did.   How is this democracy?


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## marty21 (Mar 30, 2015)

gosub said:


> I think we have entered a new phase though, thy are refusing to say what they will actually do. Though as we reached the point 10 years ago where manifesto commitments were non binding, its not like you could believe what they were saying if they did.   How is this democracy?


 no one is going to make any definite pledges (apart from the parties who have no chance of winning) after #pledgegate fucked up the LibDems last time


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## gosub (Mar 30, 2015)

marty21 said:


> no one is going to make any definite pledges (apart from the parties who have no chance of winning) after #pledgegate fucked up the LibDems last time



Which makes it a decision based on who manages to convince the most people that their slurs on their opponents are the most credible.


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## farmerbarleymow (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm already bored of all the nonsense, but always stay up on the night.  Not booked a day off yet so will have to do that rather than go into work the day after like I did after the Scottish referendum.


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 30, 2015)

I will go to bed early and then get up at 03:00 to watch it properly. Did that last year and it worked quite well, apart from the result being rather inconclusive.


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## CNT36 (Mar 30, 2015)

Is there any sort of election night drinking game?


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## Favelado (Mar 30, 2015)

Hocus Eye said:
			
		

> I wasted 18 years of my life trying to get rid of Thatcher.



I know it _seemed_ like 18.


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## brogdale (Mar 30, 2015)

Martin Freeman (& David Tennant) present the first LP PPB.



Good broadcast for a shit party.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Martin Freeman (& David Tennant) present the first LP PPB.
> 
> 
> 
> Good broadcast for a shit party.



Only succeeded in making me dislike Martin Freeman rather than like the Labour Party.


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## brogdale (Mar 30, 2015)

The BBC's 'interactive' polling thingy....produces a good, clear representation:-






That's the whole current parliament version.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

Here's a good bit of panic from Mad Paddy Ashdown: 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobil...e-coming-south-to-burn-westminster.1427713383

"the SNP are coming south to burn Westminster and make it dysfunctional."

All this stuff is making me want to cheer the SNP on. 

Except I know they aren't going to Sack Rome. All they're going to do is put a few useless Labour Tattiebogles out of work.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Here's a good bit of panic from Mad Paddy Ashdown:
> 
> http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobil...e-coming-south-to-burn-westminster.1427713383
> 
> ...



Virtually every Spanish government since the dictatorship has been propped up by minority nationalist votes. Spain still exists, shockingly.


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## marty21 (Mar 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Here's a good bit of panic from Mad Paddy Ashdown:
> 
> http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobil...e-coming-south-to-burn-westminster.1427713383
> 
> ...


 Libdems


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2015)

we used to call him paddy pantsdown. Halcyon days.


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## marty21 (Mar 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> we used to call him paddy pantsdown. Halcyon days.


 He was on telly this morning with Ken Livingstone and Michael Howard talking about the 'good old days' when they were in their pomp (ex politicans seem to make a good living as pundits nowadays)


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## JimW (Mar 30, 2015)

Just helped the bloke from the Labour Party (who I knew from Cruisewatch years back as it turns out) put up two signs in my folks' garden. The season has begun. As I've said, I'll be voting Labour here, reformist scum that I am.


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## JTG (Mar 30, 2015)

I love Schadenfreude Night. This year I shall be taking pleasure in the failures of the Blue, Red, Yellow, Purple and Green parties. I can't lose


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2015)

JimW said:


> Just helped the bloke from the Labour Party (who I knew from Cruisewatch years back as it turns out) put up two signs in my folks' garden. The season has begun. As I've said, I'll be voting Labour here, reformist scum that I am.


May I offer you a crocodile clip for your hooter sir


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## CNT36 (Mar 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> we used to call him paddy pantsdown. Halcyon days.


Had a photo taken with him once when he was out campaigning possibly in 2001. I was with a mate waiting to go gig rowing when Paddy, the local MP and a Lib Dem entourage turned up. Inside front cover of the local paper.


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## JimW (Mar 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> May I offer you a crocodile clip for your hooter sir


So long as I focus on the current Tory MP's wobbly lip on the night I can forget what it actually means.


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## brogdale (Mar 30, 2015)

Did anyone else waste 90 mins of their life watching C4's 'drama' "Coalition" the other night? Have to confess that I did, but missed huge chunks of it attempting to restrain my mirth every time 'Beaker' came on...


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## marty21 (Mar 30, 2015)

Class War are standing in Hackney North


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## Flanflinger (Mar 30, 2015)

Teaboy said:


> I'm interested in the outcome but all the crap leading up to it bores me senseless these days.  I think this could be the worst campaign yet for a total lack of clearly defined policies.



I reckon it's going to be the dirtiest campaign ever.


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## Sasaferrato (Mar 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Jeremy Vine and the CGI landscapes
> 
> I never make it past 3am on count day




Lightweight!  I stayed up until 9am the following day for the Scottish referendum. I have the Friday after the GE booked off.


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## Sasaferrato (Mar 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Here's a good bit of panic from Mad Paddy Ashdown:
> 
> http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobil...e-coming-south-to-burn-westminster.1427713383
> 
> ...



I'll be posting on all the NO! websites, pointing out the benefits of tactical voting. See who has the best chance of keeping the SNP out, and vote for them. A lot of 'nose holding' involved. I'll be voting Labour.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I'll be posting on all the NO! websites, pointing out the benefits of tactical voting. See who has the best chance of keeping the SNP out, and vote for them. A lot of 'nose holding' involved. I'll be voting Labour.


I wouldn't vote Labour if you gave me a freshly baked cake every day for the rest of my life. 

(I'd *tell* you I had done, and take the cakes anyway).


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## chilango (Mar 30, 2015)

First "official" leaflet through my door today. The Conservative incumbent. Saying very, very little.

The Greens and Labour have been unofficially campaigning and door knocking here for well over a year though.

Also seen my first window posters. Two for Labour. May make a google map charting the spread of posters and signs round here


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## chilango (Mar 30, 2015)

... Google Map created! Yay!


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## Santino (Mar 30, 2015)

Walked past our local Tory candidate the other day. Refused to meet her gaze, and sort of grimaced a bit. THIS WILL CONTINUE.


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## Sasaferrato (Mar 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I wouldn't vote Labour if you gave me a freshly baked cake every day for the rest of my life.
> 
> (I'd *tell* you I had done, and take the cakes anyway).



It won't be a pleasant experience.


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## JTG (Mar 30, 2015)

Lots of Vote Green posters up around St Marks Road in Easton 

No chance of them winning here though


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## Sasaferrato (Mar 30, 2015)

JTG said:


> Lots of Vote Green posters up around St Marks Road in Easton
> 
> No chance of them winning here though


I always think the Greens are the kind of 'acceptable face' of the far left just as, well there isn't actually an 'acceptable face' for the far right.


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## brogdale (Mar 30, 2015)

Prick.


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## brogdale (Mar 30, 2015)




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## marty21 (Mar 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I wouldn't vote Labour if you gave me a freshly baked cake every day for the rest of my life.
> 
> (I'd *tell* you I had done, and take the cakes anyway).


I feel the same , it would have to be a pretty special cake (every day) to convince me otherwise


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## belboid (Mar 30, 2015)

marty21 said:


> I feel the same , it would have to be a pretty special cake (every day) to convince me otherwise


one leaving you so stoned you forgot what you did?


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> It won't be a pleasant experience.


Why put yourself through it?


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I always think the Greens are the kind of 'acceptable face' of the far left just as, well there isn't actually an 'acceptable face' for the far right.


The Greens are not far left! They're liberals.


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## weepiper (Mar 30, 2015)

I have had a steady stream of election bumf posted through my door over the last month already, and I've had a knock from two SNP canvassers a few weeks ago too. They're the only ones to knock so far, all the other parties are just posting a leaflet and fucking off. I wonder if I'll get any more actual people wanting to talk. It's a very marginal seat.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

weepiper said:


> It's a very marginal seat.


Every seat in Scotland is now.


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## weepiper (Mar 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Every seat in Scotland is now.


True  Funny as last time it was a 3-way marginal with the SNP in fourth place. Not anymore.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

Talking of marginals, let's have this here, too:

http://democraticdashboard.com/


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## The Boy (Mar 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Every seat in Scotland is now.


yup.  I live in a seat that, with one exception, has voted Tory or Liberal/Lib Dem.  Seems to be a four way marginal now, with the bookies pricing the SNP as short-odds favourites.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

The Boy said:


> yup.  I live in a seat that, with one exception, has voted Tory or Liberal/Lib Dem.  Seems to be a four way marginal now, with the bookies pricing the SNP as short-odds favourites.


Pop it in the "democratic dashboard" ^ and see what results you get. It's a good tool.


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## marty21 (Mar 30, 2015)

belboid said:


> one leaving you so stoned you forgot what you did?


this is how they will win an overall majority,  special cake


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## Looby (Mar 30, 2015)

I've just looked up the candidates for my constituency  and I sort of know the labour candidate. Well connected leftie family and extremely intense. We have mutual friends and I met her at a party a while back. She slightly terrified me tbh. [emoji33]

She won't win anyway, my MP had a 16% majority last time but that looks to increase as the lib dems will take a beating I think. Although I suspect UKIP will do quite well around here. [emoji20]


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## belboid (Mar 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Every seat in Scotland is now.


I can think of six that aren't


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

belboid said:


> I can think of six that aren't


While that is literally true, you can see what you've written, can't you?

Imagine that was England.


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## belboid (Mar 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> While that is literally true, you can see what you've written, can't you?
> 
> Imagine that was England.


Hell, yes!


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

belboid said:


> Hell, yes!


He had one line to deliver. He had to look tough. He fluffed it.


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## JTG (Mar 30, 2015)

I have discovered we have an Official Monster Raving Loony Party candidate. Suddenly I'm wavering on my loyalty to Spunking Cock


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## belboid (Mar 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Martin Freeman (& David Tennant) present the first LP PPB.
> 
> 
> 
> Good broadcast for a shit party.



he says 'sod all' - they're going mild profanity mad


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## The Boy (Mar 30, 2015)

JTG said:


> I have discovered we have an Official Monster Raving Loony Party candidate. Suddenly I'm wavering on my loyalty to Spunking Cock


I fucking *hate* the monster raving loony party.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Martin Freeman (& David Tennant) present the first LP PPB.
> 
> 
> 
> Good broadcast for a shit party.



it's strange how labour start out from the right place - community etc - but then get so disastrously lost and end up in toryland.


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## JTG (Mar 30, 2015)

The Boy said:


> I fucking *hate* the monster raving loony party.


Better start the 'why the OMRLP are shit' thread then


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## J Ed (Mar 30, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> it's strange how labour start out from the right place - community etc - but then get so disastrously lost and end up in toryland.



Can't wait to hear Blairite Izzard next


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## The39thStep (Mar 30, 2015)

Tremendous bunfight going on between the Above and Beyond Party http://www.voteaboveandbeyond.org/ ,  who are campaigning for people to vote for them as a proxy for voting for  non of the above,  and Non of the Above UK . 
http://nota-uk.org/2014/12/10/open-...tavote-the-nota-party-the-above-beyond-party/


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2015)

Hey, Sas, ITN news says I'm like the Queen in one respect: "she can vote, but doesn't", they said.


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## butchersapron (Mar 30, 2015)

This could be the worst week this board has ever had.


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## weltweit (Mar 30, 2015)

Not looking forward to all the promises that will be made to try to win votes which may be tossed out in a moment when a coalition deal needs to be made to gain power.


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## J Ed (Mar 31, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> This could be the worst week this board has ever had.



and it was only Monday


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## William of Walworth (Mar 31, 2015)

Will be booking the Thursday off, and I don't work Fridays. We'll be on our way to a festival in Oxfordshire starting on the Friday. Watching election with Oxford friends most of Thursday night. Irrespective of outcome, at least we'll be in a festival with beertent, bands and stuff straight afterwards!


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## Pickman's model (Mar 31, 2015)

couldn't we just put cameron, clegg etc in a cage and have them fight to the death?


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## brogdale (Mar 31, 2015)

For those who like to gamble, ready for Thursday's "_William G. Stewart" _debate, here's Ladbrokes' odds...


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## Dogsauce (Mar 31, 2015)

They've forgotten 'maxed out the country's credit card'. I fuckIng hate that one.


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## brogdale (Mar 31, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> They've forgotten 'maxed out the country's credit card'. I fuckIng hate that one.



I'm also surprised that they've not opened a book on the number of answers that start with the word *"Look..."

*


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## belboid (Mar 31, 2015)

No-one's going to say 'We're all in this together' now are they?  Unless they're taking the piss


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## Pickman's model (Mar 31, 2015)

belboid said:


> No-one's going to say 'We're all in this together' now are they?  Unless they're taking the piss


we're all in this hell of a general election campaign together  more than a fucking month to go


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## Pickman's model (Mar 31, 2015)

brogdale said:


> For those who like to gamble, ready for Thursday's "_William G. Stewart" _debate, here's Ladbrokes' odds...


missed out 'the national interest'.


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## belboid (Mar 31, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> missed out 'the national interest'.


and 'complete and utter bollocks'


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## Pickman's model (Mar 31, 2015)

belboid said:


> and 'complete and utter bollocks'


should be there at 500/1


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## brogdale (Mar 31, 2015)

Every vermin on the media in the last 24 hours has also used the term _*"chaos" *_to describe the upshot of a Miliband victory. Cameron will clearly be deploying that a great deal.

e2a : Ladbrokes have it a "competence not chaos"


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## gosub (Mar 31, 2015)

first door knocker: Tory district councillor.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 31, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Every vermin on the media in the last 24 hours has also used the term _*"chaos" *_to describe the upshot of a Miliband victory. Cameron will clearly be deploying that a great deal.
> 
> e2a : Ladbrokes have it a "competence not chaos"


Ironic, given the coalition's attempt at running a government has been the very epitome of chaos.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 31, 2015)

gosub said:


> first door knocker: Tory district councillor.


both a knocker and a begrudger


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## Sea Star (Mar 31, 2015)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I used to like elections when I was an active member of one of the parties in the days when you could tell them apart. I "attended the count" many times. After weeks of trudging the streets it was a high point but you knew that that the whole thing would be repeated the following year for the local elections. I wasted 18 years of my life trying to get rid of Thatcher. When Blair came to the throne I gave up in despair.


snap


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## Sea Star (Mar 31, 2015)

I stopped enjoying GE's around the early 90s. This is the first one since then I've been involved in, and as a candidate for first time ever! So the GE is currently ruling my life, but I've already met a few people who will probably be life long friends as a result! And I've learnt so much that I think I might decide to be an agent next time rather than actually stand! 

Turns out I enjoy running a campaign more than actually being the main focus of a campaign! 

So I have the week of the election completely off work and every evening between now and then will involve a few hours of doing something campaigning related; I'll be at the count and Friday will be for going round my friends house to celebrate my return to normal life, and depending on the result, drowning my sorrows too!


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## Hocus Eye. (Mar 31, 2015)

Hi, Auntistella, you have made me curious. Please pm me some more details. If you turn out to be a lib dem or other form of Tory I won't reply. Raving Loony will get my support though.


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2015)

Labour candidate's leaflet today. Personally addressed to me, he boasts about (amongst other less unsavoury activities) removing travellers from a local park .

No new posters or signs to add to my map.


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## weltweit (Mar 31, 2015)

No evidence of campaigning here yet, hope it stays that way.
However if I am approached I may enter into debate as I have a few things to say to those that will rule us!


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## gosub (Apr 1, 2015)

weltweit said:


> No evidence of campaigning here yet, hope it stays that way.
> However if I am approached I may enter into debate as I have a few things to say to those that will rule us!


Only 3 hustings debates been organised in this constituency, all organised by churches,   still may go as our brides maid lost her youngest son to mitochondrial disease,  sort of thing they will be asking questions about I imagine.,  (and I presume they will be vocally against the proposed research)


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## brogdale (Apr 1, 2015)

These executives of capital that wrote to the Times.....


> _Dear Sirs,_
> 
> _We run some of the leading businesses in the UK. We believe this Conservative-led Government has been good for business and has pursued policies which have supported investment and job creation._
> 
> ...



They've got a point, haven't they? Look...we're not in the lead in the race to the bottom...







Fuckers.


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## Hocus Eye. (Apr 1, 2015)

That is a useful chart. It suggests to me that a sensible government could raise our corporate tax rates to 25% thus bringing in useful revenue without being uncompetitive compared to France and the USA.


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## Celyn (Apr 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Every seat in Scotland is now.



Glasgow East and Glasgow North East not all that marginal.


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## brogdale (Apr 2, 2015)

> 10m ago12:16
> 
> David Cameron has been asked about tonight’s debate by reporters in Warrington.
> 
> ...



Get the picture?


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

Nick Griffin says don't vote SNP:


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## samceeh (Apr 2, 2015)

i tried to get a reaction out of some of the big players by posting a few of my cartoons on twitter:


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

First Green Party poster (and first non-Labour poster) spotted. Although it is for the locals and is in the window of the candidate's house...

...still one for the map.


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## Teaboy (Apr 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Nick Griffin says don't vote SNP:




You'd think he'd show more solidarity with nationalists.  

How's the BNP vote holding up north of the border? Will I need both hands to count their support?


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

Teaboy said:


> You'd think he'd show more solidarity with nationalists.
> 
> How's the BNP vote holding up north of the border? Will I need both hands to count their support?


Griffin is no longer in the BNP. 

I've no idea what the BNP is polling in Scotland. They aren't standing in my constituency. Not heard anything about them being active round these parts for a couple of years.


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

I suppose I will watch the debate, my heart isn't really in it.

Is it my civic duty to watch the debate?


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Is it my civic duty to watch the debate?


Hell Yes. And to *really care*. 

We'll know.


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## shaman75 (Apr 2, 2015)




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## shaman75 (Apr 2, 2015)

shaman75 said:


>



Oops.  I meant to post that in the other thread. http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/squatters-occupy-admiralty-arch.333735/

Sorry.


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## Celyn (Apr 2, 2015)

I expect the autonomous nation of anarchist libertarians will occupy any thread they want to.


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## treelover (Apr 2, 2015)

shaman75 said:


>



The Angry Brigade Reborn? with communiques like that they will soon be looking at four small walls.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

treelover said:


> The Angry Brigade Reborn? with communiques like that they will soon be looking at four small walls.


It's a pisstake ffs.


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## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 2, 2015)

shaman75 said:


>


THIS WILL CONTINUE


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

I just watched a C4 debate between only 4 politicians and it was a car crash, tonight with 7 I expect the same!


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> I just watched a C4 debate between only 4 politicians and it was a car crash, tonight with 7 I expect the same!


need a people carrier for that.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

brogdale said:


> These executives of capital that wrote to the Times.....
> 
> 
> They've got a point, haven't they? Look...we're not in the lead in the race to the bottom...
> ...


i'm struck by the fact that a rather larger economy, that of the united states, has had a corporation tax rate of about 40% for nearly 30 years. are they closed for business?


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm in what that democratic dashboard calls an Ultra Marginal Tory-Labour seat. So I'm kind of used to feeling like I should use my vote to thwart tory swine (it didn't work last time). When Blair was at his strongest and most warmongery I didn't need to bother, but usually the tory threat is there and I end up bloody voting Labour. It helps that there are usually no other candidates worthy of a vote either.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 2, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> need a people carrier for that.


 or two hatchbacks


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## William of Walworth (Apr 3, 2015)

elbows said:


> I'm in what that democratic dashboard calls an Ultra Marginal Tory-Labour seat. So I'm kind of used to feeling like I should use my vote to thwart tory swine (it didn't work last time). When Blair was at his strongest and most warmongery I didn't need to bother, but usually the tory threat is there and I end up bloody voting Labour. It helps that there are usually no other candidates worthy of a vote either.




Poll-research-based knowledge *essential *with that one IMO.

If I could ever kick out a Tory Scum or a Lib Even Worse Scum, I would. 

Otherwise, Spunking Cock Party could be an attraction for you


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2015)

treelover said:


> The Angry Brigade Reborn? with communiques like that they will soon be looking at four small walls.



Can you *really* be taking an organisation whose acronym is ANAL seriously?


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## danny la rouge (Apr 3, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Can you *really* be taking an organisation whose acronym is ANAL seriously?


I think if you said "are you ready to join the ANAL club?" to most people, they'd know exactly how you expected them to take it.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

Sturgeon's response...



> SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has called for an inquiry after a British newspaper published a third hand account of a civil service memo alleging that she wanted David Cameron to stay on as prime minister.
> 
> _The Telegraph_ published an account of what it says came from an official British government memo, which includes details of a private meeting between the Scottish first minister and Sylvie Bermann, the French ambassador to the UK.





> Ms Sturgeon has now asked for cabinet secretary Jeremy Heywood to investigate how the memo was released.
> 
> She said: "The bigger question and one I am raising with the head of the civil service is who wrote this memo since the foreign office seem to be denying all knowledge of it."


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

Just seen Sturgeon's interview on the BBC. Transpires the leak may well have been from the Scotland office after all. If it was Carmichael's people that might explain a great deal. Not a vermin strategy at all.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

Have to admit that I hadn't even thought that it might have come from the other part of the coalition.


----------



## Sue (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Have to admit that I hadn't even thought that it might have come from the other part of the coalition.


Well they've actually got some seats to lose so...


----------



## weepiper (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Have to admit that I hadn't even thought that it might have come from the other part of the coalition.


Lib Dems are also standing to lose a large number of seats in Scotland to the SNP.


----------



## JTG (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Have to admit that I hadn't even thought that it might have come from the other part of the coalition.


Makes far more sense. The SNP aren't a direct threat to Tory seats (well, maybe one).


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

JTG said:


> Makes far more sense. The SNP aren't a direct threat to Tory seats (well, maybe one).


Oh yeah, and of a piece with Clegg's pitiful attempt to stab his mate in the back during the 'debate'.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 4, 2015)

When Farage says we can't control our borders he is technically correct, because they are marked out by the sea. He thinks he can control them because he is a cnut.


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm struck by the fact that a rather larger economy, that of the united states, has had a corporation tax rate of about 40% for nearly 30 years. are they closed for business?


But how many American corporations pay that rate? Given the extent of tax avoidance I'm not see how relevant any headline rates are


----------



## J Ed (Apr 4, 2015)

Craig Murray has this to say...

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/04/uk-intelligence-services-attack-snp/



> The fake FCO memo has MI5 written all over it. This is the worst example of British security services influencing an election campaign since the Zinoviev letter.
> 
> For those whose history is a bit shaky:
> 
> ...


----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 4, 2015)

Milliband totally missed an open goal today and attacked the SNP as if the document were real rather than the media/establishment for spreading a falsehood. What a plonker.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Just seen Sturgeon's interview on the BBC. Transpires the leak may well have been from the Scotland office after all. If it was Carmichael's people that might explain a great deal. Not a vermin strategy at all.


Looks like the NS is reading our posts...



> *Update: *It's been suggested to me from several quarters that the leaker may be Alistair Carmichael or someone in his office. As Secretary of State for Scotland the memorandum would definitely have crossed his desk, and it might help the 10 other Liberal Democrats trying to retain their seats in mainland Scotland.


----------



## FiFi (Apr 4, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Milliband totally missed an open goal today and attacked the SNP as if the document were real rather than the media/establishment for spreading a falsehood. What a plonker.


I know. It's almost as though he were part of the Westminster establishment....


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

Someone on the Guardian has suggested the memo might have been leaked by Michael Green.

Allegedly, obviously. we don't want to hear from his lawyers, do we?


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 4, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Lib Dems are also standing to lose a large number of seats in Scotland to the SNP.


I don't see 'vote SNP, get Tory' being a big vote-winning line for the Lib Dems though....


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

This is interesting...



> Scottish National party leader Nicola Sturgeon has offered to help make Ed Miliband the next prime minister even if Labour wins fewer seats than the Tories on 7 May. Her appeal comes as she angrily rejects claims that she thinks he is not up to the job.
> 
> Writing in the _Observer _– as a furious row erupted over disparaging private remarks she allegedly made about the Labour leader – Sturgeon challenges Miliband to lead Labour into an anti-austerity alliance with the SNP whichever party is the largest in the House of Commons on 8 May.
> 
> In terms that will enrage many MPs, Sturgeon throws down the gauntlet to the Labour leader, saying: “If together our parties have the parliamentary numbers required after 7 May, and regardless of which is the biggest party, will he and Labour join with us in locking David Cameron out of Downing Street?”


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)




----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 4, 2015)

She might save us all yet!


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


>


It's not exactly new - the SNP has been saying just that for weeks. Lock out the Tories, vote down their Queens Speech if they try to form a minority govt, the biggest party doesn't necessarily get to form the government.  I'll get the Observer tomorrow to see if there's anything new.


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> This is interesting...


cleverly negates the 'vote snp get tory' labour line, putting the onus back on miliband. but how do you think labour would respond to a request to go for anti-austerity? the thinking relies on the idea that labour are, in their heart of hearts, anti-austerity and only proposing some in order to seem electable in the coalition's terms.


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 4, 2015)

interesting to see a quasi-STV system developing too.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It's not exactly new - the SNP has been saying just that for weeks. Lock out the Tories, vote down their Queens Speech if they try to form a minority govt, the biggest party doesn't necessarily get to form the government.  I'll get the Observer tomorrow to see if there's anything new.


Yep, but isn't the timing of this piece interesting? Has the leak 'flushed out' this very explicit offer to Miliband as a response to the accusation that the nationalists would really prefer to see the vermin in power in Westminster?


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yep, but isn't the timing of this piece interesting? Has the leak 'flushed out' this very explicit offer to Miliband as a response to the accusation that the nationalists would really prefer to see the vermin in power in Westminster?


it certainly puts her on the front foot and deflects the focus on to miliband.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yep, but isn't the timing of this piece interesting? Has the leak 'flushed out' this very explicit offer to Miliband as a response to the accusation that the nationalists would really prefer to see the vermin in power in Westminster?


It's a good move, I think; labour are all over the place on the French Ambassador story, and Miliband is looking like a bit of a twat. 

If you can be bothered with storify (I wouldn't blame you if you couldn't), this version of events seems right to me: 

https://storify.com/theSNP/telegraph-and-the-scottish-labour


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Apr 4, 2015)

This latest twist gives the lie to the Telegraph fiction. Sadly Miliband dare not go along with  Sturgeon for fear of losing control of his own party.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

Hocus Eye. said:


> This latest twist gives the lie to the Telegraph fiction. Sadly Miliband dare not go along with  Sturgeon for fear of losing control of his own party.


Without a doubt; he'll come out with the old "_we're aiming for a majority/don't need or want a coalition/arrangement" _etc. But she's shut the LD/Vermin up and makes Miliband look like even more of a delusional twat.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

Here's what Sturgeon said: 

"In the meantime, I repeat my challenge to Ed Miliband: if together our parties have the numbers required after 7 May, and regardless of which is the biggest party, will he and Labour join with us in locking David Cameron out of Downing Street?"

This isn't new.


----------



## xslavearcx (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It's a good move, I think; labour are all over the place on the French Ambassador story, and Miliband is looking like a bit of a twat.
> 
> If you can be bothered with storify (I wouldn't blame you if you couldn't), this version of events seems right to me:
> 
> https://storify.com/theSNP/telegraph-and-the-scottish-labour


That's a great website for those of us who don't have/don't get Twitter .. Cheers!!


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 5, 2015)

This leak could still be Tory troublemaking, a bit of friction between your opponents can never do any harm and helps illustrate the 'chaos' if Labour form/try to form a government, which seems to be Crosby's main strategic message.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 5, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> This leak could still be Tory troublemaking, a bit of friction between your opponents can never do any harm and helps illustrate the 'chaos' if Labour form/try to form a government, which seems to be Crosby's main strategic message.



It could be, but I'd say that we won't know for a little while yet. Yesterday Heywood said..


> "I can confirm that earlier today I instigated a Cabinet Office-led leak inquiry to establish how extracts from this document may have got into the public domain. *Until that inquiry is complete I will not be making any further comment either on the document or the inquiry*."



So my best guestimate for the date of the revelation of who leaked the McDodgy memo will be some time late in May once the new parliament has opened and the Queen's speech has been presented in the second week of that session. How neat.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 6, 2015)

> Asked if the memo was an example of “dirty tricks” during the election campaign, Carmichael said: “*These things happen from time to time. I think it’s regrettable.”*
> 
> He added: “I have no idea what Nicola Sturgeon said. We had a third-hand account of it.
> 
> ...



Hmmm


----------



## brogdale (Apr 6, 2015)

Astute response from Sturgeon...



> (Sturgeon)...also responded to the latest twists in “Frenchgate” – specifically the Scottish secretary Alistair Carmichael remarks that “these things happen” during an election campaign.
> 
> *If Alistair Carmichael says that dirty tricks are just one of those things then it’s another illustration of why the Liberal Democrats are in such a perilous poll position.* We should never accept that dirty tricks are just a part of campaigning.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 6, 2015)

brogdale said:


> This is interesting...
> "In terms that will enrage many MPs, Sturgeon throws down the gauntlet to the Labour leader, saying: “If together our parties have the parliamentary numbers required after 7 May, and regardless of which is the biggest party, will he and Labour join with us in locking David Cameron out of Downing Street?”



Sorry Nicola, it doesn't work like that. There won't be any "locking David Cameron out of Downing Street". As PM he remains PM after the election, unless the Queen chooses to appoint a new PM who can command the confidence of the Commons. What this means is that Cameron gets first dibs at trying to form a government. Cameron needs to be turfed out, not locked out.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 6, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Sorry Nicola, it doesn't work like that. There won't be any "locking David Cameron out of Downing Street". As PM he remains PM after the election, unless the Queen chooses to appoint a new PM who can command the confidence of the Commons. What this means is that Cameron gets first dibs at trying to form a government. Cameron needs to be turfed out, not locked out.


Tecnically correct, but he'd have to present a Queen's speech within 2 weeks of parliament being opened. At that point an anti-tory block could out-vote Cameron.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2015)

It most certainly does work like that - on the level intended anyway - that is, to reassure anti-tory but not traditional SNP voters that voting SNP this time will not facilitate a a UK wide tory govt. The rest is just pointless time wasting.


----------



## Sue (Apr 6, 2015)

Thought this might be of interest... 

'One ex-MP said: "I'm now set to Defcon f****d. I'm expecting to leave and never come back. It doesn't matter how good you are or how weak your (SNP) opponent is; it's over."

Another former Labour MP admitted: "The polls are right. I hear it on the doorstep; my people hear it. We have thousands of conversations and the polls are bang on." He added: "I'll be looking for another career after May."

A third said: "It is like a tsunami; there's nothing you can do about it. It doesn't matter if you're the best swimmer in the world."'

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobil...scribes-snp-surge-as-like-a-tsunami.122462674


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 6, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Sorry Nicola, it doesn't work like that. There won't be any "locking David Cameron out of Downing Street". As PM he remains PM after the election, unless the Queen chooses to appoint a new PM who can command the confidence of the Commons. What this means is that Cameron gets first dibs at trying to form a government. Cameron needs to be turfed out, not locked out.


To all intents and purposes, it does.

Cameron _does_ remain PM until somebody can go to the Queen with a majority, but what Sturgeon is saying is: "If he tries to govern with a minority government [ie if he can't command the confidence of Parliament with an absolute majority, a coalition, a pact, a confidence-and-supply arrangement or some other way of gaining a majority to see his Queen's speech through], then will you join us in voting down his Queen's Speech?"

This becomes a _de facto_ no confidence vote, and the minority government falls.  

The non Tory parties could have done this in 2010 had the Lib Dems not gone into coalition.  

Miliband can't say yes to Sturgeon, because that would be like saying to Scottish voters "you don't need to vote Labour to get a Labour-led government".  (Many already think that, but he can't say it).  

The interesting thing is that Scottish Labour are going further than _not saying yes_ to Sturgeon.  They're re-writing constitutional history: they're saying the largest party forms the government, whether or not they have a majority.

This would mean, were it true, that smaller parties could only negotiate with the largest party to form a coalition.  And, furthermore, it would put an end to what you correctly say about the incumbent remaining unless and until someone else can go to the Queen with a majority.  This would only therefore happen if the incumbent led the largest party.  (Something Brown clearly didn't believe when he negotiated with the Lib Dems in 2010).

Labour's latest tweet on the matter.  ("Jim for Scotland" is Murphy).

Scottish Labour at least is saying Labour will not participate in trying to vote down a minority Tory government's Queen's Speech, even if they think there's an anti-Tory majority willing to do so.  Scottish Labour is saying that it will allow a minority Tory government to govern, even without a coalition.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 6, 2015)

Could have gone in any number of threads...but here'll do...



> *Conservatives accused of breathtaking hypocrisy by...*





Spoiler: ?



*Danny Alexander*



Actual, real Guardian headline.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> To all intents and purposes, it does.
> 
> Cameron _does_ remain PM until somebody can go to the Queen with a majority, but what Sturgeon is saying is: "If he tries to govern with a minority government [ie if he can't command the confidence of Parliament with an absolute majority, a coalition, a pact, a confidence-and-supply arrangement or some other way of gaining a majority to see his Queen's speech through], then will you join us in voting down his Queen's Speech?"
> 
> ...




I think strategically it could be sensible for Labour to allow a weak Tory minority government rather than have a weak Labour government propped up by Nats+ - given that austerity will continue - a minority Tory government would give a lot of opportunities for populist opposition on the harshest of cuts, and give Labour a chance to regroup. A weak Labour government could be seriously damaged by noisier and stronger opposition to austerity lite - sometimes if the tent is shit it's better to be pissing in, instead of out.

It's a gamble and things could go badly wrong for Labour on either count, but I can understand the strategy.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I think strategically it could be sensible for Labour to allow a weak Tory minority government rather than have a weak Labour government propped up by Nats+ - given that austerity will continue - a minority Tory government would give a lot of opportunities for populist opposition on the harshest of cuts, and give Labour a chance to regroup. A weak Labour government could be seriously damaged by noisier and stronger opposition to austerity lite - sometimes if the tent is shit it's better to be pissing in, instead of out.
> 
> It's a gamble and things could go badly wrong for Labour on either count, but I can understand the strategy.


I'm not sure I can.

I can understand that you talk like a winner until the votes are counted.  I get that.  But to re-write constitutional history is mad.  "The largest party forms the government".  There's no need to say that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Could have gone in any number of threads...but here'll do...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Indeed.  Hypocrite accuses boss of hypocrisy.


----------



## bemused (Apr 7, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I think strategically it could be sensible for Labour to allow a weak Tory minority government rather than have a weak Labour government propped up by Nats+ [...]



So desperate for power I can't see them not forming a Government if they can. What will be interesting is to see is how the SNP act, given what happened to the LibDems when they got in bed with another party I don't expect them to be as friendly towards the Labour Party as the media are making out.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

bemused said:


> I can't see them not forming a Government if they can.


Nor can I.

Even if some party boffins are saying "it'd be better for the party to wait this out", Miliband isn't going to agree.  And he appoints the negotiating teams.


----------



## killer b (Apr 7, 2015)

What do you think of this articles? Seems relevant to the current discussion...

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourki...coup-and-labour-is-doing-nothing-to-stop-them


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> What do you think of this articles? Seems relevant to the current discussion...
> 
> https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourki...coup-and-labour-is-doing-nothing-to-stop-them


Useful article, thanks. 

This is correct: 

"someone votes for an SNP MP in this election, or a Green MP, or a Plaid Cymru MP, then they can reasonably expect that that MP is going to vote to sack David Cameron and replace him with Ed Miliband — because that’s what they have said they are likely to do. If that is true for the majority of MPs, then the democratic outcome is for Ed Miliband to be Prime Minister, even if Labour on its own has a slightly smaller parliamentary group than the Tories. The precedent for who gets to govern if Parliament is hung is complex, as outlined here, but ultimately boils down to who can pass budgets and win votes of confidence, which has nothing intrinsically to do with being the biggest single party."


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 7, 2015)

yes, yes this is all true - but the Libdems have been quite successful at promoting the idea that it's not only the largest party but the popular vote size has an element as well - this suits the Labour leadership quite well


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> yes, yes this is all true - but the Libdems have been quite successful at promoting the idea that it's not only the largest party but the popular vote size has an element as well - this suits the Labour leadership quite well


But we all know that popular vote has nothing whatever to do with who forms a government, it's number of seats.  (And as the article correctly says, those seats don't all have to be for the same party).

If it was popular vote, Thatcher would never have been prime minister.  

The salient part of the article is the role of the Tory press and Scottish Labour in moving the goalposts:


"However, this is not how the Tory press will interpret the election. If they can possibly get away with it, they will find any way they can to declare Cameron the winner, even if it’s going to be almost impossible for him to command a parliamentary majority. In doing so, they will seek to make it impossible for Miliband to govern. This circumstance would in effect be a coup by newspaper proprietors against the people of the country. Because our constitution is written not in statute, but headlines, this is perfectly possible.

It's important to read this story in the Daily Mail today in that context. By saying that the SNP have vowed to "prop up Ed Miliband in Downing Street — even if he loses the election", they have redefined what it is to win an election in a parliamentary system — changing the goalposts from a functioning majority to biggest single party. In reality, if Labour and the parties to their left have a parliamentary majority, then no Tory government can survive long. But it doesn’t need to. If Cameron can stay even briefly as PM, then he can call a second election and use his party’s superior wealth to secure a better position against a Labour party already financially crippled by this vote. 

In this context, Labour should be doing everything they can to ensure the goalposts stay where they are — who can command a parliamentary majority — and are not shifted to which one party is the biggest. Unfortunately for Ed Miliband, Jim Murphy and other Scottish Labour MPs are selfish enough to be more concerned about saving their own seats than they are about getting Cameron out of Downing Street. Because of this, they have repeatedly been saying, sometimes repeated by the UK party, that the biggest party gets to be the government. If we do end up with the circumstance outlined above — as seems reasonably likely, we can assume that these comments will be pulled from the shelf and repeated at Labour on loop. To put it bluntly, Murphy is making a Tory government more likely."


----------



## newbie (Apr 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> If Cameron can stay even briefly as PM, then he can call a second election and use his party’s superior wealth to secure a better position against a Labour party already financially crippled by this vote.


no, that's plain wrong.  
FTPA
3)The polling day for each subsequent parliamentary general election is to be the first Thursday in May in the fifth calendar year following that in which the polling day for the previous parliamentary general election fell.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

newbie said:


> no, that's plain wrong.
> FTPA
> 3)The polling day for each subsequent parliamentary general election is to be the first Thursday in May in the fifth calendar year following that in which the polling day for the previous parliamentary general election fell.


No; even under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, parliament can be dissolved following a vote of no confidence if no alternative government is formed in 14 days.  (Or indeed if a two-thirds majority of all MPs votes to dissolve parliament). Those are two circumstances in which the fixed term is not served. In the scenario you quote, the first circumstance has occurred.


----------



## newbie (Apr 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> No; even under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, parliament can be dissolved following a vote of no confidence if no alternative government is formed in 14 days.  (Or indeed if a two-thirds majority of all MPs votes to dissolve parliament). Those are two circumstances in which the fixed term is not served. In the scenario you quote, the first circumstance has occurred.


I agree, but that's not the point made "_If Cameron can stay even briefly as PM, then he can call a second election_".  It's not his to call. The opposition must first propose and then win a vote of no confidence and then to fail to form an administration that can command confidence.  The ball is very much in their court, Cameron cannot make the old style decision for a snap GE.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

newbie said:


> I agree, but that's not the point made "_If Cameron can stay even briefly as PM, then he can call a second election_".  It's not his to call. The opposition must first propose and then win a vote of no confidence and then to fail to form an administration that can command confidence.  The ball is very much in their court, Cameron cannot make the old style decision for a snap GE.


I see what you mean. The writer was sloppy there. But in the sense that a second election would be called, who formally does the calling is immaterial to the point being made.


----------



## newbie (Apr 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I see what you mean. The writer was sloppy there. But in the sense that a second election would be called, who formally does the calling is immaterial to the point being made.


the timing is very material.  

The act has removed from the PM a massively important power and handed it to the opposition, for use only in split parliaments.  If the arithmetic can be made to work, the opposition parties collectively decide the timing, based perhaps on their judgement of peak government unpopularity.  When they choose to move there's legally nothing the PM can do to stop them, other than winning the VoNC.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

newbie said:


> the timing is very material.
> 
> The act has removed from the PM a massively important power and handed it to the opposition, for use only in split parliaments.  If the arithmetic can be made to work, the opposition parties collectively decide the timing, based perhaps on their judgement of peak government unpopularity.  When they choose to move there's legally nothing the PM can do to stop them, other than winning the VoNC.


You should read the article.  You've misunderstood the writer's point.

(And on reflection, I was wrong in what I said in post 166: the _formal_ situation is that the incumbent Prime Minister _calls_ the election, no matter how the dissolution was occasioned. The incumbent furthermore asks the Queen to summon the new Parliament to meet on a given date following the election).


----------



## newbie (Apr 7, 2015)

Not sure when this note was added.  





> _Note: A few people have argued that the above is negated by the Fixed Term Parliament Act of 2011. It isn't. The Act states that an election shall take place if "if a motion of no confidence is passed and no alternative government is confirmed by the Commons within 14 days". The scenario I am outlining requires Labour to refuse to do a deal with the SNP because of perceptions of long term political damage, and so refusing to form a government within the required 14 days, becuase they feel, in effect, that it is politically impossible to do so._



in which case a VoNC will only be tabled if one or other of the parties thinks it will pass and wishes to try to precipitate a GE.  It's their decision, not the PMs. A PM who can't expect to win a VoNC is weak, a prisoner in Downing St until the opposition strategists decide the time is right. Whichever way up you put it the PM of the day cannot call a GE at a timing to suit themselves.  

unless you're proposing that the word 'call' was used in a narrow formal sense rather than using the obvious meaning, then fine the ball is yours to take home.


----------



## magneze (Apr 7, 2015)

That's a really interesting article. It's going to be a mess unless someone can get a majority isn't it. Potentially much more than last time it sounds.


----------



## Santino (Apr 7, 2015)

Presumably a Prime Minister might be in a position to dissolve his/her government, knowing that the other main party won't be able to form one either, even with the support of another party.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2015)

magneze said:


> That's a really interesting article. It's going to be a mess unless someone can get a majority isn't it. Potentially much more than last time it sounds.


last time the libs were in a position to play kingmaker and they squandered it for a time in the sun. The SNP, should they come to be in that position, are not going to make the same mistake of coalition with anyone, least of all the vermin. imho obvs


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

newbie said:


> Not sure when this note was added.
> 
> in which case a VoNC will only be tabled if one or other of the parties thinks it will pass and wishes to try to precipitate a GE.  It's their decision, not the PMs. A PM who can't expect to win a VoNC is weak, a prisoner in Downing St until the opposition strategists decide the time is right. Whichever way up you put it the PM of the day cannot call a GE at a timing to suit themselves.
> 
> unless you're proposing that the word 'call' was used in a narrow formal sense rather than using the obvious meaning, then fine the ball is yours to take home.


I don't want the ball.  You're circling the head of a pin, and I can't see what you're trying to do or say.

For clarity, I'm not Adam Ramsay, nor did I post the link to his piece.

But, my reading of what Ramsay is saying is very close to what I've been saying in this thread.  If you have any comments to make on my arguments, feel free to make them.

My posts:

Here.

Here.

Here.

Ramsay adds points about the Tory press that I didn't raise here.  I agree with him that they are attempting to re-write the constitution.  He also says he thinks the Tories are in a better position to be able to win a snap second election, in large part due to their funding.  I'm not so sure about that.  It would depend on a number of other factors.  But he's right that the press will be one of those factors.


----------



## newbie (Apr 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I don't want the ball.  You're circling the head of a pin, and I can't see what you're trying to do or say.
> 
> For clarity, I'm not Adam Ramsay, nor did I post the link to his piece.
> 
> ...



I've no quibble with any of your posts. You quoted something I took issue with it, not with you.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

newbie said:


> I've no quibble with any of your posts. You quoted something I took issue with it, not with you.


I don't know what issue you are taking when you attempted to widen the point beyond Ramsay's sloppy wording.


----------



## newbie (Apr 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I don't know what issue you are taking when you attempted to widen the point beyond Ramsay's sloppy wording.


if neither of us knows what the other is talking about it's probably best to just stop now.


----------



## magneze (Apr 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> last time the libs were in a position to play kingmaker and they squandered it for a time in the sun. The SNP, should they come to be in that position, are not going to make the same mistake of coalition with anyone, least of all the vermin. imho obvs


That's what's so interesting about it. It's potentially more of a mess than last time because a hung parliament is now the expected outcome, so all the trading is starting now. It was mentioned on the radio this morning that it's also had an effect on the manifestos as parties now can't put in stuff that they would have drop if they ended up in coalition lest they end up like the LibDems.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 7, 2015)

magneze said:


> That's what's so interesting about it. It's potentially more of a mess than last time because a hung parliament is now the expected outcome, so all the trading is starting now. It was mentioned on the radio this morning that it's also had an effect on the manifestos as parties now can't put in stuff that they would have drop if they ended up in coalition lest they end up like the LibDems.


Yes, a fractured, hung parliament is, potentially, a very fluid entity. Some recent electoral predictions have shown it may well take 4 parties to form some sort of alignment to form the basis of an administration.


----------



## gosub (Apr 7, 2015)

newbie said:


> I agree, but that's not the point made "_If Cameron can stay even briefly as PM, then he can call a second election_".  It's not his to call. The opposition must first propose and then win a vote of no confidence and then to fail to form an administration that can command confidence.  The ball is very much in their court, Cameron cannot make the old style decision for a snap GE.



He needs 433 MP's votes to end the fixed term Parliament and call an election, Tories may be budgeting for a second election-the other parties aren't.


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I don't know what issue you are taking when you attempted to widen the point beyond Ramsay's sloppy wording.


it's a key point that the PM can't decide when to call the election, so the Tories would be unable to use their greater financial clout to beat labour in a second election. The note that the author added on FTPA confirms that it would be the opposition who can effectively decide when to call a new election.


----------



## magneze (Apr 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yes, a fractured, hung parliament is, potentially, a very fluid entity. Some recent electoral predictions have shown it may well take 4 parties to form some sort of alignment to form the basis of an administration.


As long as the Tories or UKIP aren't one of those four then we'll be in a slightly better position. Nightmare would be Tory + UKIP.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> it's a key point that the PM can't decide when to call the election, so the Tories would be unable to use their greater financial clout to beat labour in a second election. The note that the author added on FTPA confirms that it would be the opposition who can effectively decide when to call a new election.


The pm wouldn't decide the timing, it's true. But the financial clout of the Tories will still be the financial clout of the Tories 14 days after a no confidence vote.


----------



## newbie (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> He needs 433 MP's votes to end the fixed term Parliament and call an election, Tories may be budgeting for a second election-the other parties aren't.


2/3 majority?  anyhow, my guess is it'll be overturned as soon as any PM from any party can threeline whip their way to doing so.


----------



## magneze (Apr 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> The pm wouldn't decide the timing, it's true. But the financial clout of the Tories will still be the financial clout of the Tories 14 days after a no confidence vote.


I guess that it would mean that the other parties could fund-raise before calling the vote. Nothing stopping the Tories doing the same mind..


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

magneze said:


> I guess that it would mean that the other parties could fund-raise before calling the vote. Nothing stopping the Tories doing the same mind..


Well, the argument is, I suppose, that the Tories could financially better stand going straight into another election than the other parties. 

As I say, though, while that may be true, it isn't the only factor in deciding whether the Tories get an outright majority next time. It could be another hung parliament. (Although I concede that newspaper presentation of the events may influence the outcome).


----------



## gosub (Apr 7, 2015)

magneze said:


> I guess that it would mean that the other parties could fund-raise before calling the vote. Nothing stopping the Tories doing the same mind..



I think we might well see state funding of parties this term.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> I think we might well see state funding of parties this term.


Are you a betting man?


----------



## belboid (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> He needs 433 MP's votes to end the fixed term Parliament and call an election, Tories may be budgeting for a second election-the other parties aren't.


it isn't even that simple. It requires two-thirds to pass a motion that “That there shall be an early parliamentary general election.” - but that isn't a vote of no confidence.

A VoNC happens when a motion is passed - on a simple majority - on the motion “That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government.”

A government could, technically, fiddle it so they lost such a vote and called an election early, but it would reflect incredibly badly on them and cost them votes.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/section/2


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2015)

s are we to basically take it that the election will be won by whoever has the best grasp of uk parliamentary law and is aided by hectoring r/w press?
Nice.


----------



## gosub (Apr 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> it isn't even that simple. It requires two-thirds to pass a motion that “That there shall be an early parliamentary general election.” - but that isn't a vote of no confidence.
> 
> A VoNC happens when a motion is passed - on a simple majority - on the motion “That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government.”
> 
> A government could, technically, fiddle it so they lost such a vote and called an election early, but it would reflect incredibly badly on them and cost them votes.



Losing a vote of no confidence doesn't mean they have to ask the electorate, they can bugger around to their hearts content.


----------



## belboid (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> Losing a vote of no confidence doesn't mean they have to ask the electorate


Yes it does.


----------



## gosub (Apr 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> s are we to basically take it that the election will be won by whoever has the best grasp of uk parliamentary law and is aided by hectoring r/w press?
> Nice.



The party that wins the election, probably won't have been in government for quite a while by the time we have another election


----------



## gosub (Apr 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> Yes it does.



Nope it does n't, just means that government falls, and somebody else gets a turn, unless a 2/3 super majority vote to call an election (under the fixed term parliament act).  And most of parties don't have the money for an election so before that they'd need buying off with statefunding


----------



## belboid (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> Nope it does n't, just means that government falls, and somebody else gets a turn, unless a 2/3 super majority vote to call an election (under the fixed term parliament act)


the legislation states:

(3)An early parliamentary general election is also to take place if—

(a)the House of Commons passes a motion in the form set out in subsection (4), and

(b)the period of 14 days after the day on which that motion is passed ends without the House passing a motion in the form set out in subsection (5).

(4)The form of motion for the purposes of subsection (3)(a) is—

“That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government.”

(5)The form of motion for the purposes of subsection (3)(b) is—

“That this House has confidence in Her Majesty's Government.”


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> Nope it does n't, just means that government falls, and somebody else gets a turn, unless a 2/3 super majority vote to call an election (under the fixed term parliament act).  And most of parties don't have the money for an election so before that they'd need buying off with statefunding


No it doesn't.  The 2/3 thing and the no confidence thing are two separate circumstances.


----------



## gosub (Apr 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> the legislation states:
> 
> (3)An early parliamentary general election is also to take place if—
> 
> ...



Looking at it, the 14 day thing is there.  So we get two weeks of economic turmoil guaranteed, all interested parties will leave it til the last minute to extract the best deal, fucking wonderful


----------



## belboid (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> Looking at it, the 14 day thing is there.  So we get two weeks of economic turmoil guaranteed, all interested parties will leave it til the last minute to extract the best deal, fucking wonderful


I think the chances of their being a new government in such circumstances are virtually nil. Even if the figures added up, you couldn't switch from a Tory led coalition to a Labour led one without major uproar and outcry.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> Looking at it, the 14 day thing is there.


Yes, I said that here.  Didn't you believe me?


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> Looking at it, the 14 day thing is there.  So we get two weeks of economic turmoil guaranteed, all interested parties will leave it til the last minute to extract the best deal, fucking wonderful


i get pissed off when you see headlines like 'business leaders fear political uncertainty'. So? Shall we stop having elections to give them more certainty?


----------



## gosub (Apr 7, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> i get pissed off when you see headlines like 'business leaders fear political uncertainty'. So? Shall we stop having elections to give them more certainty?



So do I, but 2010 managed to be done in 5 days, and there was market pressure, statute in 14 days and Parkinsons Law is in full effect.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> So do I, but 2010 managed to be done in 5 days, and there was market pressure, statute in 14 days and Parkinsons Law is in full effect.


Have a look around the rest of the world.  If we now have a system where coalition and no overall control is more likely, you need to get used to the idea that building coalition might take longer than 5 days.  Or even 14 days.

Never watched Borgen, ffs?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> So do I, but 2010 managed to be done in 5 days, and there was market pressure, statute in 14 days and Parkinsons Law is in full effect.


Was there 5 days of economic turmoil in 2010? There was not. Why suggest that would be over an extended period next time around?


----------



## belboid (Apr 7, 2015)

gosub said:


> So do I, but 2010 managed to be done in 5 days, and there was market pressure, statute in 14 days and Parkinsons Law is in full effect.


Depends what is likely to happen.  2010 was a bit of a blip as it was largely unprecedented, although it was still expected, and taken into account by the markets. So it did have some effect on stocks, but it was hardly turmoil

As I said above, I don't think it is at all likely that there would be a change in government in those fourteen days, so the markets would just treat it as the beginning of the election period. A little more turbulent?  Perhaps, but hardly earth-shatteringly so.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2015)

This is pretty much what _markets _do when an old established country with little or no risk has a coalition construction period:


----------



## weltweit (Apr 7, 2015)

magneze said:


> As long as the Tories or UKIP aren't one of those four then we'll be in a slightly better position. Nightmare would be Tory + UKIP.


I wonder about UKIP. They only had two seats and they were sitting MPs who changed party and it isn't even clear that Farage will win his seat. It is possible with FPTP they may only get a few seats.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> i get pissed off when you see headlines like 'business leaders fear political uncertainty'. So? Shall we stop having elections to give them more certainty?


shoot them and give them closure

the markets may not like it though


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

weltweit said:


> I wonder about UKIP. They only had two seats and they were sitting MPs who changed party and it isn't even clear that Farage will win his seat. It is possible with FPTP they may only get a few seats.


Current modelling suggests 2.

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html


----------



## brogdale (Apr 7, 2015)

For anybody living outside Scotland who might want to view tonight's leaders' debate....

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/debates/


----------



## belboid (Apr 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Current modelling suggests 2.
> 
> http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html


Or one, or five!  Only one way has them having any chance of influence tho. And even then it must be unlikely, as they [the tories] need the LibScum more


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 7, 2015)

Fascinating odds on the Carlow-Kilkenny by election on May 22nd this year, (which has fuck all to do with the general election but I thought was interesting anyway). Some aromatherapist ( Breda Garner) has a better chance than either Nigel Irritables third period Trots or what is left of the SWP in Ireland

Fianna Fail
1/2
Renua
14/1
Green
66/1
Fine Gael
3/1
Labour
66/1
People Before Profit
100/1
Sinn Fein
13/2
Anti-Austerity Alliance
66/1
Noel G Walsh
100/1
Breda Gardner (Independent)
14/1


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> shoot them and give them closure
> 
> the markets may not like it though


politicians like to talk about what business needs so maybe they'll do the honourable thing and do it themselves.

greater good, innit.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 8, 2015)

Milliband has pledged to scrap the non-dom tax dodge. Smart move - the tories will have a hard time arguing against it. Why this wasn't done decades ago is a mystery - we'd expect it from blair, but why didn't Atlee or Wilson scrap it? 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/07/ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-status-labour


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 8, 2015)

because its a useful bribe to gift useful rich foreigners with?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 8, 2015)

Nicky Morgan was wriggling very uncomfortably over Non doms on radio 4 this morning. Refused to say weather she thought they should pay tax in the UK if they were living here.


----------



## belboid (Apr 8, 2015)

Guardian has a largely dull bit on likely new SNP MP's.

The most interesting bit is about a Mr Chris Law.  I think I am right in thinking that, if elected (and he will be) he'll   be the first ever pony-tailed male in the House.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 8, 2015)

Must have been loads of bewigged pony tails in the old days.


----------



## belboid (Apr 8, 2015)

Wigs dont count (nor Whigs)


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Guardian has a largely dull bit on likely new SNP MP's.
> 
> The most interesting bit is about a Mr Chris Law.  I think I am right in thinking that, if elected (and he will be) he'll   be the first ever pony-tailed male in the House.


Perhaps the Guardian could employ that Sam guy with his tracing paper.  He could "say" something about the different hairstyles there might be on May 8th.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 8, 2015)

"I am content with my hairstyle".


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 8, 2015)

ha, like a shit Pablo Iglesias!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Milliband has pledged to scrap the non-dom tax dodge. Smart move - the tories will have a hard time arguing against it. Why this wasn't done decades ago is a mystery - we'd expect it from blair, but why didn't Atlee or Wilson scrap it?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/07/ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-status-labour



Surprising display of backbone from Milipede on this. 

As for Atlee and Wilson, I don't think the non-dom loophole was as well known back in their day. It certainly wasn't being exploited on the scale we see today.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Milliband has pledged to scrap the non-dom tax dodge. Smart move - the tories will have a hard time arguing against it. Why this wasn't done decades ago is a mystery - we'd expect it from blair, but why didn't Atlee or Wilson scrap it?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/07/ed-miliband-non-dom-tax-status-labour



Is that what he proposed? It seems a bit of a mess to me


----------



## gosub (Apr 8, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Surprising display of backbone from Milipede on this.
> 
> As for Atlee and Wilson, I don't think the non-dom loophole was as well known back in their day. It certainly wasn't being exploited on the scale we see today.



so the Stones et al fucked off abroad for a holiday did they?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 8, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Is that what he proposed? It seems a bit of a mess to me


Where's the mess? That article you link to describes the PR back and forth around it not the actual content of the proposed policy - which seems pretty straightforward:


From April 2016 no new-doms would be allowed;
Existing non-doms would be given a short period to settle their affairs;
Labour would stress that foreigners in the UK for a genuinely temporary, short period would not have to pay tax on overseas income – the principal benefit of the non-dom rule. Balls said the temporary period would be for the equivalent length of a normal postgraduate university degree of two to three years.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 8, 2015)

gosub said:


> so the Stones et al fucked off abroad for a holiday did they?


He didn't say that it didn't exist then, he said it didn't exist on the scale that it does now. And it didn't. From 67 000 in 1997 to 137 000 ten years later - and around the same figure today.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 8, 2015)

This could all be cleared up by a bit of simple differentiation between 'wealth creators' and 'value thieves'.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## two sheds (Apr 8, 2015)

Caption competition time?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 8, 2015)

"Quick Jonny, one of his nonce mates is coming, play dead like this!"


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 8, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Caption competition time?
> 
> View attachment 69865


The girl is saying:

"I fucking told the fucking last one...It's.Pronounced. Gruff-a-lo.  Not fucking Grew-faah-loo".

*bang. bang. bang*


----------



## chilango (Apr 8, 2015)

A disturbing number of people talking to me about the election are defending Clegg.

Fortunately I don't think they'll get around to voting.


----------



## gosub (Apr 8, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Caption competition time?
> 
> View attachment 69865




And if you turn to page four, this is an estimate of how much debt you'll be in by the time you leave school


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> A disturbing number of people talking to me about the election are defending Clegg.
> 
> Fortunately I don't think they'll get around to voting.


Give them some of this and tell them to get busy.  They'll be happily occupied for weeks.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2015)

*"wot a confusion"*


----------



## chilango (Apr 9, 2015)

chilango said:


> A disturbing number of people talking to me about the election are defending Clegg.
> 
> Fortunately I don't think they'll get around to voting.



They're the same sort of people that think:

Miliband's lack of "presence" will actually have a harmful effect on the international stage.

That the economy not only has recovered but is doing really well.

That people voting Green are naive because "obviously" the Green Party's manifesto isn't a realistic plan for government.

...and such "sensible" positions parroted uncritically from "sensible" newspapers and TV shows.

Yet, at least one of these "sensible" voters is on holiday for the election and won't get around to organising a postal vote.

I'm not going to remind them


----------



## two sheds (Apr 9, 2015)

"You had MICHAEL GOVE as Education Secretary????"


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 9, 2015)

belboid said:


> Guardian has a largely dull bit on likely new SNP MP's.
> 
> The most interesting bit is about a Mr Chris Law.  I think I am right in thinking that, if elected (and he will be) he'll   be the first ever pony-tailed male in the House.



Sweden also had a pony tailed politician until last year  In fact, he was the finance minister Anders Borg.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 9, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sweden also had a pony tailed politician until last year  In fact, he was the finance minister Anders Borg.


Lest we forget, the leader of Spain's Podemos also rocks a pony tail and trainers. Perhaps pony tail is the new commie beard?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Lest we forget, the leader of Spain's Podemos also rocks a pony tail and trainers. Perhaps pony tail is the new commie beard?


Pretty sure the capitalist Nationalist pictureded above and Moderate party (their real names,i kid you not) are not communist.


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 9, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Surprising display of backbone from Milipede on this.



I'm sure Gordon Brown displayed similar backbone in 1996 when he promised to get rid of it then.

The Evening Standard says it imperils London's success. I wonder if the writers ever stop to look at themselves: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...y-ends-up-costing-britain-money-10161987.html


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 9, 2015)

Some really interesting stuff about funding in key marginals. 


> The findings are part of a study by the Bureau to examine all cash and non-cash donations to the top 20 swing seats as defined by BBC electoral data. It is a repeat of a previous Bureau analysis in July 2014, which showed the Conservatives had received the most gifts in the marginals and that these finances were being deployed against precarious Lib Dem constituencies.
> 
> But the latest research suggests Lib Dem supporters are bankrolling a fightback in the marginals, where their donations have grown to more than £460,000 from around £183,000 last summer. It suggests the party is concentrating its fundraising efforts to try and cling on to existing seats and possibly to try and snatch other constituencies that also hang in the balance: of the top 20 marginals, the Lib Dems won only three in 2010 but came second in six.



http://www.thebureauinvestigates.co...-britains-top-20-marginal-seats-tories-third/


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 9, 2015)

View attachment 69865

As we see here, Hansel and Gretel's father thought the world owed him a living...


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 9, 2015)

Here's some more interesting data on where Labour are getting funded from: 

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/03/24/list-of-labour-cash-donors-non-trade-union/


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 9, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Here's some more interesting data on where Labour are getting funded from:
> 
> http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/03/24/list-of-labour-cash-donors-non-trade-union/


Compare that total - around £8 million since 2010 - with the unions over same period - around £80 million.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm surprised JK Rowling isn't on the list??


----------



## gareth taylor (Apr 9, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Compare that total - around £8 million since 2010 - with the unions over same period - around £80 million.


 my predictions
tories 322 labour 262 lib dems 41 ukip 12


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 9, 2015)

based on what you cunt?


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 9, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> my predictions
> tories 322 labour 262 lib dems 41 ukip 12



I think you may have just given us your lottery numbers by mistake.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> my predictions
> tories 322 labour 262 lib dems 41 ukip 12


That's just random numbers. 

Here's a site that you can run figures through to see what effect they have on seats: 

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

Don't just spout evidence free gibberish.


----------



## treelover (Apr 9, 2015)

> “Ed Miliband stabbed his own brother in the back to become Labour leader. Now he is willing to stab the United Kingdom in the back to become prime minister.”
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...and-hed-do-the-same-with-the-uk-10164087.html



Lynton Crosby is at work again, Michael Fallon accusses Milliband of stabbing his brother in the back and will stab UK in the back over Trident by using it as a bargaining chip with the SNP.

Nasty stuff, not gone down well with broadcast media, but will it resonate with voters?Ed's response was pretty visceral though and turned it on the Tories.


----------



## gareth taylor (Apr 9, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> based on what you cunt?


 mods can do something please


----------



## miktheword (Apr 9, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> mods can do something please








about you being a cunt?

that's asking a lot of any mod.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 9, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> mods can do something please



can mods do something please


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 9, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> my predictions
> tories 322 labour 262 lib dems 41 ukip 12



Take out the NI seats and you've got the SNP and Plaid fighting over scraps, yer giant loon.  Try again.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> Lynton Crosby is at work again, Michael Fallon accusses Milliband of stabbing his brother in the back and will stab UK in the back over Trident by using it as a bargaining chip with the SNP.
> 
> Nasty stuff, not gone down well with broadcast media, but will it resonate with voters?Ed's response was pretty visceral though and turned it on the Tories.



Desperate stuff. I think the tory campaign may be in the process of coming off the rails. They have smugly been assuring themselves that 'swingback' was going to happen and that they would have enough of a lead over labour by polling day. Until now their own arrogance and confirmation bias has kept them in a happy place - but the latest batch polls are showing steady labour leads - rather than things moving in their direction. I think the 'non-dom' thing wrong footed them as well. 

I think the ed m 'back stabber' plus THE TARTAN TERROR bollocks we've been seen today is the result of the panic button being pushed. We may start to see signs of disunity and very loud grumbling abut lynton crosby. 

They still seem to think its 1992 and just banging on about how terrible Ed milliband is (ineffective, weak - yet a ruthless backstabber at the same time apparently) will see them home. But the r/wing press dont have the same influence now and people are more skeptical about the media. I think their sneer, smear and fear approach will put people off.


----------



## treelover (Apr 9, 2015)

> ineffective, weak - yet a ruthless backstabber at the same time apparently



yes, bit of a corker that one.


----------



## treelover (Apr 9, 2015)

. Photograph: Stefan Wermuth/Reuters


He is looking good there, won't hurt him at all.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 9, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Desperate stuff. I think the tory campaign may be in the process of coming off the rails. They have smugly been assuring themselves that 'swingback' was going to happen and that they would have enough of a lead over labour by polling day. Until now their own arrogance and confirmation bias has kept them in a happy place - but the latest batch polls are showing steady labour leads - rather than things moving in their direction. I think the 'non-dom' thing wrong footed them as well.
> 
> I think the ed m 'back stabber' plus THE TARTAN TERROR bollocks we've been seen today is the result of the panic button being pushed. We may start to see signs of disunity and very loud grumbling abut lynton crosby.
> 
> They still seem to think its 1992 and just banging on about how terrible Ed milliband is (ineffective, weak - yet a ruthless backstabber at the same time apparently) will see them home. But the r/wing press dont have the same influence now and people are more skeptical about the media. I think their sneer, smear and fear approach will put people off.


I agree it smacks of a degree of desperation and, perhaps, exasperation that the polling numbers are not going their way as they did in electoral campaigns before 1997. That said, there was more to today's nastiness than might at first meet the eye. As well as moving the narrative away from non-doms and sowing a little more doubt/fear into the 'middle England marginals, by pushing Labour into a stridently pro-trident mode the vermin have given a real helping hand to the SNP. Murphy's task just got a whole lot harder.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 9, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Murphy's task just got a whole lot harder.



i cant see how labour could be any more fucked in scotland than it is already.


----------



## treelover (Apr 9, 2015)

If Ed now stated he will renationalise the railways he would be on a winner.


----------



## gosub (Apr 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> If Ed now stated he will renationalise the railways he would be on a winner.



Can't see the EU liking that.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 9, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> i cant see how labour could be any more fucked in scotland than it is already.


Well, no...but Murphy's task was/is to win back former Labour voters. With Miliband pro-nuking all day that's even less likely.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 9, 2015)

There was something earlier about Lynton Crosby's tax affairs too.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-lynton-crosby-over-tax-affairs-10164743.html


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 9, 2015)

What the effin eff



> Ed Miliband was in a relationship with a senior BBC economics journalist while working at the Treasury, it has emerged after his wife admitted being "furious" about the "secret" romance.
> 
> At the time he was a special adviser to Gordon Brown, the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
> The news was disclosed by Justine Thornton, Mr Miliband’s wife, in an interview with the Daily Mirror on Thursday.



First reported 5 years ago in proper papers. And NO ONE CARES.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 9, 2015)

It gets ever even more worserer:


----------



## killer b (Apr 9, 2015)

desperate.


----------



## weepiper (Apr 9, 2015)

They're really going with 'he had four girlfriends before he got married' as a scandal?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 9, 2015)

It's not much mitigation, but it does only cover _an entire 1/3 of the front page_. It's the top bit blown up. Double pager inside.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 9, 2015)

weepiper said:


> They're really going with 'he had four girlfriends before he got married' as a scandal?



It's bizarre - it's not even aimed at the casual Mail reader, it seems to be aimed at the readers who write to them in crayon, and the ZaNuLieBore commenters. Crosby's masterplan?


----------



## weepiper (Apr 9, 2015)

urgh.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 9, 2015)

One of the 4 women in the mail pic, her husband has just died. I'm sure this is a welcome diversion for her.

edit: weepiper did it already


----------



## stupid kid (Apr 9, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> What the effin eff
> 
> 
> 
> First reported 5 years ago in proper papers. And NO ONE CARES.




I care. My secret economics editor crush...


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 9, 2015)

stupid kid said:


> I care. My secret economics editor crush...


Loads of other posh gels on the BBC.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm going to quote from a partly laughable Peston piece which compares Miliband to Thatcher.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32233887

Mostly because I wanted to quote two bits:



> Until the great crash and recession of 2008, he (Blair) and his successor Gordon Brown could argue that their calibration of Labour's style of left-wing politics, as friendly to the City of London and to those accumulating vast fortunes here, had helped to generate prosperity which in turn could be used to fund a massive expansion of spending on schools and hospitals - and therefore went with the grain of Labour history.



Aha, another echo of the one ideological concession that I remember being offered in the press in the wake of the financial crisis. They conceded that trickle down was dead. Some have gone on to deny the death of that myth ever happened, but reading more of the piece than I could bear to quote, its clear that even the modern Labour party can bring itself to give up that shit. For now at least.



> What is also important about Ed Miliband is that he appears to have more-or-less given up on reaching an accommodation with what would be seen as the right-wing media. In a total departure from the convictions of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown he seems to believe that he can win in the face of extreme hostility from the country's best-selling newspapers.



Should be obvious why I'm quoting that bit right now. A long time left for a lot more shit too.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2015)

Looks like Croydon vermin have picked up on the campaign theme...





> ...the office of Sarah Jones, the Labour candidate for Croydon Central, is believed to be preparing a letter for sending to the election agent of her rival, gaffe-prone Gavin Barwell, to enquire whether they have accounted for the advertising hoarding in their official election expenses.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 10, 2015)

the mail - just wow. 

Is it me or is the tory campaign becoming increasingly farcical?

They go with "Ed the fraticidal back stabber will sell us out to the Trident Trashing Tartan Terrors!"  and this allows Milliband to play the statesman and wave it away as desperate nonsense, remind everyone how arrogant and nasty the tories are  and present himself as A Noble Man of Moral Authority - an image further burnished by the Mail helpfully highlighting that he's been quite a hit with the (posh and smart) ladies. 

Way to go Lynton. 

It smacks of arrogance, complacency and a total failure to recognise that its not 1992 anymore.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 10, 2015)

No, it is becoming increasingly farcical.


----------



## newbie (Apr 10, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I agree it smacks of a degree of desperation and, perhaps, exasperation that the polling numbers are not going their way as they did in electoral campaigns before 1997. That said, there was more to today's nastiness than might at first meet the eye. As well as moving the narrative away from non-doms and sowing a little more doubt/fear into the 'middle England marginals, by pushing Labour into a stridently pro-trident mode the vermin have given a real helping hand to the SNP. Murphy's task just got a whole lot harder.


makes sense, eliminates the possibility of a clear Labour government and simultaneously drives a wedge which could prevent a Lab/SNP coalition, or wreck one if it forms.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 10, 2015)

Is Lynton Crosby ridiculously overrated by his employers? I only ask.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 10, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Is Lynton Crosby ridiculously overrated by his employers? I only ask.



Oh contraire -  However much labour are paying him, its not enough.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 10, 2015)




----------



## weltweit (Apr 10, 2015)

Mystery candidate 'Michael Green' standing against Grant Shapps
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-04-10/mystery-candidate-michael-green-standing-against-grant-shapps/


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 10, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Mystery candidate 'Michael Green' standing against Grant Shapps
> http://www.itv.com/news/2015-04-10/mystery-candidate-michael-green-standing-against-grant-shapps/


its probably another of his myltiple identities whose as sick of the cunt as the rest of us


----------



## teqniq (Apr 10, 2015)




----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2015)

Crosby really does seem to have attained '_reverse Midas' _capabilities with this campaign. To alienate the IoD is really going it....


> 21m ago10:37
> 
> *IoD says Tory volunteering plan will increase business costs and 'hasn't been thought through'*
> The* Institute of Directors *has strongly criticised the Conservative plan to let people take three days paid leave for volunteering. (See 7.29am, 10.14am and 10.19am.) This is from its director general, Simon Walker.
> ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 10, 2015)

I always call that the shitas touch

Your (and danny's) recent links and musings have me paranoid the vermin are going to try and rig it.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2015)

Quality response!



> 4m ago11:18
> 
> *Frances O’Grady*, the TUC general secretary, claims the Tory volunteering plan will allow union members three days paid leave to get involved in union activities. She has put out this statement.
> 
> ...


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 10, 2015)

Remember, Lynton Crosby was Michael Howard's campaign strategist in 2005. Howard lost.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 10, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> the mail - just wow.
> 
> Is it me or is the tory campaign becoming increasingly farcical?
> 
> ...


"The heavens declare the holiness of the bomb".


For Trident worshippers everywhere!


----------



## treelover (Apr 10, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Quality response!




Pretty sharp that, pity the TUC have been asleep for years.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> What the effin eff
> 
> 
> 
> First reported 5 years ago in proper papers. And NO ONE CARES.


Quality comment beneath that article.



> james01 • 34 minutes ago
> 
> 
> One rich Socialist going out with another. Double hypocrisy. How many communist simpathisers work for the BBC? How many BNP supporters work for the BBC? Why is it that the Police will permit a communist to join up but not a member of the BNP? Communists murdered 20 millions of their opposition under Stalin but that appears to be OK by these leftie types.



Flanders is a socialist? That's news to me. 

But how many Tankies are members of the police? Hilarious.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> Pretty sharp that, pity the TUC have been asleep for years.


 Utter farce...


> A Conservative Party spokesman is adamant: _‘*It definitely won’t include trade unions*’._
> 
> Sources claims they can exclude union activity (which is not charitable) at a legislation writing level.



O'Grady responds..


> _“Confusion is growing by the minute about the Conservatives’ time off for volunteering pledge. First Eric Pickles can’t make up his mind whether it is a right at all, and now the Conservatives say that there will be an approved state list of volunteering opportunities which will not include trade union activity. One wonders whether they will go on to ban help at food banks,  giving advice to workers on zero-hours contracts or community wind power projects.”_


----------



## treelover (Apr 10, 2015)

Eric the Stalinist

Wasn't he a bit of a Commie for a short time in his youth?


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 10, 2015)

Whinging bastards.


> “I don’t like what I see in Britain. I think it’s become a nanny state – when I went to school I played conkers. I got hit on the head by conkers and bits smashed into my face, but I’m here. Now, they’re either not allowed to play conkers or they’ve got to wear glasses. We’ve gone over the top. There are more personal freedoms here in Spain. So do I still want to be known as British, the answer is: I’m not sure.”
> 
> Mr Hill, wearing a very un-policeman like gold waistcoat and earring, says he considers himself integrated in Spain, after 14 years of living in a small village away from the housing developments here that over the years have attracted thousands of Brits.
> 
> ...


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Apr 10, 2015)

'Identity' politics have become most prominent ?

This election just feels weird , is it me or is it the same as usual ?


----------



## teqniq (Apr 10, 2015)

Could it be seen as the kiss of death?

Labour and Tory top brass told to stay away by constituencies


----------



## weepiper (Apr 10, 2015)

> Expats also lose the right to vote in UK general elections after 15 years abroad, a point that angers everybody at the club


If you want to vote so much, come back and live with the results.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 10, 2015)

weepiper said:


> If you want to vote so much, come back and live with the results.


I've never understood (or bothered to look up why~) expats get the vote. I assume in my head it dates back to empiah where britains vast and sprawling beuracratic and military bods would expect to be doing a few years in india or whatever then come home and so its fair to let them have a say in what they come home to. Today tho? vote where you live!


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 10, 2015)

DJWrongspeed said:


> 'Identity' politics have become most prominent ?
> 
> This election just feels weird , is it me or is it the same as usual ?



No manifestos yet, so there isn't much else to talk about.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 10, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> No manifestos yet, so there isn't much else to talk about.


I hear Miliband used to date ladies.


----------



## Smangus (Apr 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I hear Miliband used to date ladies.


 
I wonder where he stabbed them.....


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I hear Miliband used to date ladies.


No women mind.


----------



## Sue (Apr 10, 2015)

All getting very dirty in Bradford West. 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-shah-forced-marriage-nikah-bradford-hustings


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 10, 2015)

Sue said:


> All getting very dirty in Bradford West.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-shah-forced-marriage-nikah-bradford-hustings


Galloway is filthy rape apologist scum. That behaviour is completely out of order. He should be shunned by decent socialists. People should turn their back on him if he enters a room. He's slug slime.


----------



## teqniq (Apr 10, 2015)

That's pretty fucking low.


----------



## YouSir (Apr 10, 2015)

More than pretty fucking low, man's scum. How is his career still alive?


----------



## teqniq (Apr 10, 2015)

Maybe not for much longer after this?


----------



## Looby (Apr 10, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Quality response!


[emoji41]
Brilliant. Maybe this will help out all the reps that are doing TU work in their own time because their facilities time has been cut to zero. [emoji35]

ETA just saw the bit about no TU activity. Cunts. [emoji35]


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 10, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Maybe not for much longer after this?



Galloway is like a shit stain your mattress, or red wine on white carpet, nothing will get rid of the fucker.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2015)

Sometimes, just sometimes the Guardian can say something worthwhile....



> On Wednesday, the Lib Dems retreated to a woodland adventure centre, prompting a return to that old thought experiment:* if Nick Clegg says something political in a forest, does he make a sound?*


----------



## teqniq (Apr 10, 2015)

Yeah I saw that too. The whole article is pretty bizarre; it sounds like the three main parties are stage-managing themselves to death.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2015)

pork clegg!


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 10, 2015)

Sue said:


> All getting very dirty in Bradford West.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-shah-forced-marriage-nikah-bradford-hustings


Appalling behavior on Galloway's part. Surely also a sign of desperation on his part?


----------



## Sue (Apr 10, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Appalling behavior on Galloway's part. Surely also a sign of desperation on his part?



Let's hope so but given this is Galloway, fuck knows. I hate Labour but really hope she wipes the floor with him. What a scumbag.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2015)

The vermin soooo missed a trick by turning their back on Davis.



> 1m ago19:37
> 
> Not much to report from that LBC discussion, except that David Davis said Michael Fallon’s attack on Miliband was a result of the Conservatives trying to draw attention away from the non-dom issue and their defence of the undeserving rich.


----------



## treelover (Apr 10, 2015)

> The age difference mattered, he suggested, because it “slandered” the Pakistani community and played into “every stereotype”. He was cheered by a large contingent of the Bradford crowd and heckled by others.



I wonder who the hecklers were?


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Galloway is filthy rape apologist scum. That behaviour is completely out of order. He should be shunned by decent socialists. People should turn their back on him if he enters a room. He's slug slime.


That is absolutely sickening


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> I wonder who the hecklers were?


people who don't like him


----------



## Belushi (Apr 10, 2015)

There's nothing Galloway wont stoop too is there? I'd call him a pig of a man but that would be an insult to swine.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Appalling behavior on Galloway's part. Surely also a sign of desperation on his part?


its just how he does politics, he'd do the same even on a winner. Such an arsehole


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2015)

lets not forget he's a big fan of using sectarian divides to his gain up in snpland (as we now call scotland)


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 11, 2015)

Fun quiz, if you're a geek. I made a bit of a balls-up and only managed 17/20.

How about you?

http://www.sporcle.com/games/Mateo56/lets-go-across-to-jeremy-with-the-swingometer


----------



## brogdale (Apr 11, 2015)

This all looks a bit too convenient to be 'true'...


----------



## weepiper (Apr 11, 2015)

brogdale said:


> This all looks a bit too convenient to be 'true'...



Makes a change for it to be coming from the other side

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/nazi-swastika-daubed-on-snp-msp-s-arbroath-office-1.449448
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...aign-shop-covered-in-nazi-vandalism-1-3536766


----------



## weepiper (Apr 11, 2015)

This 'ugly face of nationalism' shit is getting dull too. They're _desperate _for there to be an ugly face of nationalism.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 11, 2015)

weepiper said:


> This 'ugly face of nationalism' shit is getting dull too. They're _desperate _for there to be an ugly face of nationalism.


does it have another?


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 11, 2015)

Does Godwin's Law apply to elections?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 11, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Does Godwin's Law apply to elections?


Not in the Goebbels.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Galloway is filthy rape apologist scum. That behaviour is completely out of order. He should be shunned by decent socialists. People should turn their back on him if he enters a room. He's slug slime.





> Galloway’s spokesman Ron McKay...


 Whenever Tony Robinson does his next series of 'Dirty Jobs from History', he should maybe add in this contemporary one. Fucking yuk.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 11, 2015)

weepiper said:


> This 'ugly face of nationalism' shit is getting dull too. They're _desperate _for there to be an ugly face of nationalism.



is there a cuddly face of nationalism?


----------



## Wilf (Apr 11, 2015)

Sorry for the derail, but is there one single person left on these boards still willing to give it the 'ah, but he stuck it to the US congress' type defence of Galloway?  FFS, even if he was _right_ about the woman's age - I've no idea, I hadn't heard of the case till today - he still manages to act like a complete cunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 11, 2015)

I expect that Dexter bloke would.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 11, 2015)

brogdale said:


> This all looks a bit too convenient to be 'true'...



Why would they target the Tories?  The Tories are hardly any challenge to the SNP.  If there was vandalism of Labour offices I'd be more prepared to believe it, they are, after all, the long-term rivals.

Also, who writes "Q"?  I suppose it's meant to stand for Quisling(s), but it's a bit esoteric.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 11, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> is there a cuddly face of nationalism?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


>


----------



## Wilf (Apr 11, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I expect that Dexter bloke would.


Strangely enough, I was doing a mental inventory as I typed. He headed the shortlist.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 11, 2015)




----------



## weepiper (Apr 11, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> is there a cuddly face of nationalism?





Pickman's model said:


>


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 11, 2015)

weepiper said:


>


i think all three of them would be a bit much.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


>


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Why would they target the Tories?  The Tories are hardly any challenge to the SNP.  If there was vandalism of Labour offices I'd be more prepared to believe it, they are, after all, the long-term rivals.
> 
> Also, who writes "Q"?  I suppose it's meant to stand for Quisling(s), but it's a bit esoteric.



Seems like another office, supposedly Labour, was also targeted. It's a bit confusing because the building seems to be a Scottish Parliament office?

http://news.stv.tv/north/316854-pol...ve-and-labour-offices-vandalised-in-aberdeen/

The "Q" thing suggests to me there's a lone nutter doing this.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


>



Good god no.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


>




I never had Ray Burns down as a nationalist!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


>



ye gods


----------



## weepiper (Apr 11, 2015)

Reading the comments on those tweets a lot of people seem to think the graffitti-ist is using the swastika in a BNP way ('English out') rather than suggesting the Tories are nazis which seems a lot more likely to me


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 11, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Reading the comments on those tweets a lot of people seem to think the graffitti-ist is using the swastika in a BNP way ('English out') rather than suggesting the Tories are nazis which seems a lot more likely to me


all i know is that they weren't paying attention when they covered the third reich at school.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 11, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Seems like another office, supposedly Labour, was also targeted. It's a bit confusing because the building seems to be a Scottish Parliament office?
> 
> http://news.stv.tv/north/316854-pol...ve-and-labour-offices-vandalised-in-aberdeen/
> 
> The "Q" thing suggests to me there's a lone nutter doing this.


Yes, it's hardly a central office operation.  But there's no shortage of nutters.






This is a Scottish Government office, not a party office.  Why does that get a "Q" if it's an SNP-inclined nutter?

Don't we have a nutter called Dow who thinks the Scottish Government are pawns of the Queen or something?  Isn't he in the Aberdeen area?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 11, 2015)




----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 11, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> ye gods


Say what you like about Salmond, is that the sort of thing you'd see Cameron doing for a selfie?


----------



## Wilf (Apr 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Don't we have a nutter called Dow who thinks the Scottish Government are pawns of the Queen or something?  Isn't he in the Aberdeen area?


Good call. Also, he's a bit 'route one' as well - he'd go for Queen rather than ER.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Say what you like about Salmond, is that the sort of thing you'd see Cameron doing for a selfie?



Christ no. For all their faults, the current bunch of party leaders in the Scottish Parly seem like actual human beings.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 11, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Christ no. For all their faults, the current bunch of party leaders in the Scottish Parly seem like actual human beings.


Well, I wouldn't include Rennie in that for obvious reasons, nor, for even more obvious reasons, the oddball axe-murder Murphy.

I'm reluctant to provide a quote that might be used against me, but the one the Mail likes to call the "lesbian kick-boxer" actually seems quite normal for a Tory.  She comes across as a human. Apart from being a Tory, obviously, which is unacceptable.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 11, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, I wouldn't include Rennie in that for obvious reasons, nor, for even more obvious reasons, the oddball axe-murder Murphy.
> 
> I'm reluctant to provide a quote that might be used against me, but the one the Mail likes to call the "lesbian kick-boxer" actually seems quite normal for a Tory.  She comes across as a human. Apart from being a Tory, obviously, which is unacceptable.



I did qualify with "in the Scottish Parly" to specifically exclude Murphy.  Kez Dugdale seems alright. (It's so easy to forget Rennie exists).


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 11, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I did qualify with "in the Scottish Parly" to specifically exclude Murphy.


Good point.  It would be hilarious if Murphy loses his Westminster seat and then fails to win a Holyrood seat next year.

*crosses fingers and toes*


----------



## Sue (Apr 11, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Sorry for the derail, but is there one single person left on these boards still willing to give it the 'ah, but he stuck it to the US congress' type defence of Galloway?  FFS, even if he was _right_ about the woman's age - I've no idea, I hadn't heard of the case till today - he still manages to act like a complete cunt.


Iirc some people were still coming out with that shit after his 'bad sexual etiquette' comments so  wouldn't be at all surprised. Oh, and his spokesman is obviously a complete scumbag too.


----------



## gosub (Apr 12, 2015)

newbie said:


> makes sense, eliminates the possibility of a clear Labour government and simultaneously drives a wedge which could prevent a Lab/SNP coalition, or wreck one if it forms.


As SNP have ruled out formal coalition anyway, its all a bit daft, Trident to get through Parliament on Lab/Tory votes


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 12, 2015)

And now there's a Labour candidate with a Putin connection - Mail story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-lengths-cover-links-Putin-1bn-arms-deal.html


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 12, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> And now there's a Labour candidate with a Putin connection - Mail story:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-lengths-cover-links-Putin-1bn-arms-deal.html


From that link: a typo worthy of the Grauniad.


> Former aide to Labour leader *Ed Milbiand* is standing for party in Hampstead


----------



## belboid (Apr 12, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> From that link: a typo worthy of the Grauniad.



why?  does it create a wholly different word, or make the word it is attempting to say incomprehensible?  Ir is it just putting a single letter in the wrong place?


----------



## teqniq (Apr 12, 2015)

belboid said:


> why?  does it create a wholly different word, or make the word it is attempting to say incomprehensible? *Ir* is it just putting a single letter in the wrong place?



you should know, maybe it was you who wrote the article 

anyways they seem desperate to dig up dirt


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 12, 2015)

A labour candidate standing in Hampstead isn't really on a path to any kind of power, are they? Desperate.


----------



## JTG (Apr 12, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> A labour candidate standing in Hampstead isn't really on a path to any kind of power, are they? Desperate.


It's a Labour held seat. She's hoping to be the successor to Glenda Jackson


----------



## gosub (Apr 13, 2015)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...Vote-Conservative-in-seats-Ukip-cant-win.html   Farage urges vote Tory in seats they can't win.   You have to put £5k on deposit if you want to run for parliament that you have to get 5%of the vote to get back... There must be some UK candidates spitting tintacks at that.


----------



## belboid (Apr 13, 2015)

gosub said:


> You have to put £5k on deposit if you want to run for parliament


£500


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Apr 13, 2015)

Labour's manifesto out now. Quite strong on climate change and they'll abolish bedroom tax. Haven't digested it yet.


----------



## treelover (Apr 13, 2015)

> *Ed Miliband's speech and Q&A - Verdict from the Twitter commentariat*
> It will take a while for journalists to pore over the manifesto - it runs to 86 pages, and it is relatively dense - but the verdict on his speech and Q&A is already in, and it is highly positive. Political journalists and commentators are impressed. This is what they are saying on Twitter.
> 
> From the BBC’s Nick Robinson
> ...



of course the elites like it, it will continue austerity, be very fiscally responsible, what's not to like for them.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 13, 2015)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Labour's manifesto out now. Quite strong on climate change and they'll abolish bedroom tax. Haven't digested it yet.



First page wittering on about "hard working" again. ftfo.


----------



## treelover (Apr 13, 2015)

The poor, unemployed, disabled, etc are without a voice in this election, unless its to be contrasted with the 'hard working families'(TM Bill Clinton)


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 13, 2015)

Oooh they're going to outlaw discrimination against...members of the armed forces.

No more criticising people who bravely choose to serve their country.


----------



## treelover (Apr 13, 2015)

> Labour will pause and review the Universal Credit programme



Interesting


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2015)

christ. Soldiers of course, notoriously experience routine difficulty and discrimination. So desperate


----------



## treelover (Apr 13, 2015)

> Labour will ban MPs from holding paid directorships and consultancies



and Ministers?, and what about after they leave Parliament?

Blunkett with A4E, Hewitt with U.S private healthcare multi-national comes to mind.

still a very radical policy


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 13, 2015)

So we won't be allowed to make fun of likesfish anymore, is that what they're saying?


----------



## likesfish (Apr 13, 2015)

Generally somebody does something mindbogglingly stupid and then desperately backtracks as the public gives them an earful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier_discrimination_in_the_United_Kingdom:rolleyes:


An army officer was refused entry to Harrods in November 2006. (At the time, Harrods stated that its policy was to exclude persons in "non-civilian attire" from their store.)[3] this discrimination obviously needs dealing with


----------



## J Ed (Apr 13, 2015)

Busker sings a song to David Cameron, "fuck off back to Eton with all your Eton chums"

Dog bites 3 fingers off Tory councillor out electioneering


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 13, 2015)

God look at that twat strolling up to him, he's loving it


----------



## J Ed (Apr 13, 2015)

Wannabe Stasi twat


----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 13, 2015)

I might buy one of those curly-wired ear pieces - I'll be able to listen to my choons and feel important at the same time.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 13, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Busker sings a song to David Cameron, "fuck off back to Eton with all your Eton chums"


On the one hand, well played Mr Busker.  On the other hand, that's a ukulele.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 13, 2015)

I'm singing that to myself now.  It's very catchy.


----------



## JTG (Apr 13, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Dog bites 3 fingers off Tory councillor out electioneering


Was it on Hampstead Heath? Is the dog's name Gramsci?

Not reading the link in case the above isn't so


----------



## emanymton (Apr 14, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Busker sings a song to David Cameron, "fuck off back to Eton with all your Eton chums"
> 
> Dog bites 3 fingers off Tory councillor out electioneering


Poor dog, can you imagine the taste of Tory in your mouth.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 14, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm singing that to myself now.  It's very catchy.


Bit early for the Christmas number one though. That'll probably be Jedward or one of those lads.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 14, 2015)

treelover said:


> Interesting



Makes sense. They need to analyse whether full roll-out will cause more spunking of good money after bad, or will be financially and politically "doable".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 14, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> I might buy one of those curly-wired ear pieces - I'll be able to listen to my choons and feel important at the same time.



You'll feel important, but become impotent.


----------



## chilango (Apr 14, 2015)

I'm in western Cornwall at the moment. Depressing how many Lib Dem "winning here" placards are about. Lots. 

A few Tory ones on the bigger farms too.

Spotted one MK one too. Will the SNP surge trickle down to them a touch?

Driving through Devon the big farms were alternating Tory and UKIP.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 14, 2015)

chilango said:


> Driving through Devon the big farms were alternating Tory and UKIP.


The opening shots of a dystopian film.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 14, 2015)

Wilf said:


> The opening shots of a dystopian film.


I don't want to pander to the stereotypic view of farmers being hard of thinking...but really? Farmers wanting to support UKIP? Are they fed up with the Mercs that the CAP has gifted them?


----------



## chilango (Apr 14, 2015)

Spinal cord in a baguette.


----------



## chilango (Apr 14, 2015)

Wilf said:


> The opening shots of a dystopian film.



Yeah, with the next scene being increasingly dense forests of orange diamonds.

Yuk.

Theres a 5ft square one at the end of the road from where I'm sat right now.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 14, 2015)

chilango said:


> Driving through Devon the big farms were alternating Tory and UKIP.



How many were actually working farms and not conversions/holiday homes though?


----------



## chilango (Apr 14, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> How many were actually working farms and not conversions/holiday homes though?



Dunno. They were just in the fields by the motorway.


----------



## bemused (Apr 14, 2015)

So far this election has been super dull, I hope some of them up their game.


----------



## Brechin Sprout (Apr 14, 2015)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Labour's manifesto out now. Quite strong on climate change and they'll abolish bedroom tax. Haven't digested it yet.


Abolishing the "Bedroom tax" only on "social" housing though. They will continue with the Housing Benefit Cap that they introduced for those in the private sector, though.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 14, 2015)

LibDems bus broken down on Brixton Hill if anyone wants to throw things.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2015)

go rock it till it falls over


----------



## mk12 (Apr 14, 2015)

Does anyone else live in a Lib Dem-Tory marginal? It's fucking depressing. Lib Dems claiming we have to vote for them to keep the Tories out. Worked well last time.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 14, 2015)

mk12 said:


> Does anyone else live in a Lib Dem-Tory marginal? It's fucking depressing. Lib Dems claiming we have to vote for them to keep the Tories out. Worked well last time.



Yes, I live in the C&W constituency in the 'golden crescent' of the SW 'burbs. It's not very marginal though; the loathsome Brake has the 29th safest LD seat and, with a >5k majority, should hang on relatively easily. I suppose if I intended voting, (or thought that it might somehow make any difference), I might get a bit depressed about the situation.

With hindsight Brake's 2010 literature looks pretty laughable...









> *No other result is possible*











> *Remember if you vote Labour here it will only help...the Conservative Party to win nationally*


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 14, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yes, I live in the C&W constituency in the 'golden crescent' of the SW 'burbs. It's not very marginal though; the loathsome Brake has the 29th safest LD seat and, with a >5k majority, should hang on relatively easily. I suppose if I intended voting, (or thought that it might somehow make any difference), I might get a bit depressed about the situation.


What's his message this time?


----------



## Stay Beautiful (Apr 14, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yes, I live in the C&W constituency in the 'golden crescent' of the SW 'burbs. It's not very marginal though; the loathsome Brake has the 29th safest LD seat and, with a >5k majority, should hang on relatively easily. I suppose if I intended voting, (or thought that it might somehow make any difference), I might get a bit depressed about the situation.
> 
> With hindsight Brake's 2010 literature looks pretty laughable...



LOL... Look at that dodgy graph! Cheeky desperate shitcunts.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 14, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> What's his message this time?


 No fucking idea; I've binned anything that the cunts have put through my door.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 14, 2015)

brogdale said:


> No fucking idea; I've binned anything that the cunts have put through my door.


Just wondered if he was still chasing the Labour/ABT vote or if he instead had gone after the LD/Tory swing vote.

Considering it's the yellow scum probably doing both at the same time.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 14, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Just wondered if he was still chasing the Labour/ABT vote or if he instead had gone after the LD/Tory swing vote.
> 
> Considering it's the yellow scum probably doing both at the same time.



In C&W Brake will be aiming to mop up (former) tory voters, and convince them that now that the LDs have shown themselves to be a 'trustworthy party of stable government' they can vote for a 'centrist' MP. Delusional as that may sound, it makes psephological sense; in 2010 the vermin gained fully 4 times the popular vote of the Labour candidate, So Brake feels that for any former tactical supporter who reverts to Lab, he'll be able to pick up a tory newly convinced that the LDs are a 'credible party of government'. 

I know all this shite 'cause he told me himself in 2012.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 14, 2015)

chilango said:


> Yeah, with the next scene being increasingly dense forests of orange diamonds.
> 
> Yuk.
> 
> Theres a 5ft square one at the end of the road from where I'm sat right now.


Suppose the odd Libdem one would be a touch of Chrome Yellow.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2015)

We've only had a labour bod here and ma told him to go forth etc so I chased him down the road to discuss clause four and the political affiliations of the lab candidate (other than straight labourism obvs). He looked like a veteran and fielded my questions then finished with 'well, its hollobone again if you don't give her a chance'

bah.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 15, 2015)

The election has just seemed to slow down and the manifesto's are all sounding pure bullshit to me. Don't really know who do vote, and part of me also doesn't really care about who's in power. The fun and excitement of this general election (the first I'm allowed to vote in) has already gone and to be honest I want it over now. Just gimme a ballot paper to vote using the "eenie-meenie-miney-mo" method.


----------



## The Octagon (Apr 15, 2015)

Question that Google seems to fail at (or I fail at Google), how many ballots were spoilt at the last election? Is it counted / reported? Do they differentiate between obviously spoilt (i.e. 'None of the above') and invalid selections?


----------



## gosub (Apr 15, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> Question that Google seems to fail at (or I fail at Google), how many ballots were spoilt at the last election? Is it counted / reported? Do they differentiate between obviously spoilt (i.e. 'None of the above') and invalid selections?



<0.3% or 140,000  no differentiation.


----------



## Impossible Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

This is an important time for you British people. If I had a say in this election, I would go for the candidate that speaks to me, the most sincere, the one I could trust. But this ain't going to happen as I have no say in this election. Nevertheless I follow it, for I live and work in England, the country I chose to live in.


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2015)

Who would you vote for, given the option?


----------



## Impossible Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

killer b said:


> Who would you vote for, given the option?



Look, I don't have the right to vote in the country I live in, for I'm not a British citizen. Thus I don't know. People will decide of my future and I have no say, so frustrating.


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2015)

That's the exact same position we're all in too.


----------



## Impossible Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

killer b said:


> That's the exact same position we're all in too.



I SO understand...


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2015)

Not the exact same position tbf. But elections are a spectator sport for us too - I haven't seen a politician who's sincere, trustworthy or who speaks to me for some time...


----------



## Impossible Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

killer b said:


> Not the exact same position tbf. But elections are a spectator sport for us too - I haven't seen a politician who's sincere, trustworthy or who speaks to me for some time...



And the winner is ??


----------



## belboid (Apr 15, 2015)

Impossible Girl said:


> And the winner is ??


Capital


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2015)

Yeah, those guys.


----------



## Impossible Girl (Apr 15, 2015)

Sorry, what do you mean ? Conservative, Tories, Ukip, what ?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 15, 2015)

gosub said:


> <0.3% or 140,000 *no differentiation*.


That's one of the things that puts me off spoiling my ballot - I'll just get lumped in with people who failed to understand the process, rather than object to it.


----------



## JimW (Apr 15, 2015)

Went swimming after work and the squash courts at the leisure centre looked like they were holding a dry run of the count. Our work now displays a massive David Drew banner, Dale Vince following up on his chunky donation.


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2015)

Impossible Girl said:


> Sorry, what do you mean ? Conservative, Tories, Ukip, what ?


Which party is going to win? Labour I think. But a) how I, or almost anyone else on here votes won't make the slightest difference to the result, and b) they'll be carrying on with the politics of austerity (albeit maybe a slightly different shade), as required by capital.


----------



## belboid (Apr 15, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> That's one of the things that puts me off spoiling my ballot - I'll just get lumped in with people who failed to understand the process, rather than object to it.


I don't think many fail to understand it. There was, ime, a fairly even split between unmarked or clearly deliberately spoiled ballots, and ones where it wasn't clear if an X was in one box or another (slightly more unmarked/deliberates). A fair few people don't msrk anything but still 'vote' because they can't bring themselves to vote for anyone, but still believe voting is important.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 15, 2015)

belboid said:


> I don't think many fail to understand it. There was, ime, a fairly even split between unmarked or clearly deliberately spoiled ballots, and ones where it wasn't clear if an X was in one box or another (slightly more unmarked/deliberates). A fair few people don't msrk anything but still 'vote' because they can't bring themselves to vote for anyone, but still believe voting is important.



Partially how I'm feeling, turning up to the polling station and deciding what tick box looks the most quadrilateral to tick.

Or just write "THUG LYF" , make a box for that, then tick. Whatever seems the least stupid.


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2015)

I seem to remember a spunking cock gallery last time. People had proper gone to town with the felt tips, there was some ace entries (oo-er)


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 15, 2015)

Are you allowed to take photos in the booth


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2015)

I'm a rebel.


----------



## gosub (Apr 15, 2015)

And you carry your own felt tips..... Pencil not good enough for you?


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2015)

Unless they've started supplying the polling booths with a range of colours, then no.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 16, 2015)

"None of the Above" seems a commendable option .... proves you can write, spell, and draw a box with an 'X' in it. 

"Spunking Cock" (with a "filled box" next to the drawing  ) seems a less boring notion, but you have to be somewhat, erm, well advanced** in your election day progress,  to manage that. 

**At 8 am in the morning, ideally, for the "vote early then do other stuff" faction


----------



## gosub (Apr 16, 2015)

killer b said:


> Unless they've started supplying the polling booths with a range of colours, then no.



ffs its already been reduced to what's your favourite colour, I want to write my favourite colour IN my favourite colour, you belong among the postal ballotees


----------



## killer b (Apr 16, 2015)

Its a new drive to get in the younger voters. Coloured pencils in the polling booths, and a balloon of nitrous as you leave.


----------



## JTG (Apr 16, 2015)

JimW said:


> Went swimming after work and the squash courts at the leisure centre looked like they were holding a dry run of the count. Our work now displays a massive David Drew banner, Dale Vince following up on his chunky donation.


Do you think Drew's got a chance? He only lost narrowly last time and he seems to be well known in the constituency. Also not exactly a career politician, what with his teaching background and that.
What about the Forest? It's a bit weird and separate over there but I do wonder if it may swing back to Labour


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Well done studes...


----------



## gareth taylor (Apr 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Well done studes...



 seems lib dems are making a comeback


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> seems lib dems are making a comeback


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Who lies behind these three new pro-Conservative blogs?

Three new anonymous pro-Tory political blogs have popped up in recent weeks. All are rather curious: none carry bylines, and two are so technically similar that they could have been made in the same place. They were introduced to the world by Louise Mensch in a post for ConservativeHome. In fact, Guido Fawkes has suggested that Mensch might know who was behind them:

Exciting. Why don’t you put it on http://t.co/OAtVxRaizY orhttp://t.co/JQwxcCQIhC. You know the – shhush -astroturf sites.@LouiseMensch

— Guido Fawkes (@GuidoFawkes) April 7, 2015


So are they real? Or astroturf — a Westminster term something that looks like grassroots but is actually from someone connected to the campaign? I’ve done some digging to find out more.

____

Note the last line in the piece.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

This is a real election leaflet in, of all places, newcastle.

(ta to spanky)


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 16, 2015)

is it shapps up to his inept internet skullduggery again


----------



## The Octagon (Apr 16, 2015)

Can't decide if lol (for the awkwardness inflicted on Hunt), or just plain 

*General Election 2015: Kid tells Labour's Tristram Hunt he'd vote Ukip 'to get all the foreigners out'*


----------



## JimW (Apr 16, 2015)

JTG said:


> Do you think Drew's got a chance? He only lost narrowly last time and he seems to be well known in the constituency. Also not exactly a career politician, what with his teaching background and that.
> What about the Forest? It's a bit weird and separate over there but I do wonder if it may swing back to Labour


Almost certain he'll win here, biggish Green vote probably get squeezed and the Tory incumbent is a complete stuffed shirt. Drew definitely has a bit of a personal vote, he came up looking OK after the expenses thing and i well-known about the town (saw him as I was outside work this morning having a tab as it happens). Not kept up with the forest, certainly used to be the other likely Labour seat somewhere ruralish round this way, but not sure how it's changed.
On way home directed a lost Evening Standard journo who'd come to interview Dale Vince.


----------



## JTG (Apr 16, 2015)

JimW said:


> Almost certain he'll win here, biggish Green vote probably get squeezed and the Tory incumbent is a complete stuffed shirt. Drew definitely has a bit of a personal vote, he came up looking OK after the expenses thing and i well-known about the town (saw him as I was outside work this morning having a tab as it happens). Not kept up with the forest, certainly used to be the other likely Labour seat somewhere ruralish round this way, but not sure how it's changed.
> On way home directed a lost Evening Standard journo who'd come to interview Dale Vince.


That would be my impression yeah. Certainly there's a big contrast between the Forest & Stroud constituencies and the neighbouring Cotswold & Tewkesbury seats.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 16, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> This is a real election leaflet in, of all places, newcastle.
> 
> (ta to spanky)


Your eyes are inevitably drawn to the area where his recently removed cravat would have been.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> This is a real election leaflet in, of all places, newcastle.
> 
> (ta to spanky)


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


>


That was exactly what i was thinking about - didn't realise there was one so fitting


----------



## Celyn (Apr 16, 2015)

SNAP!  I also thought "oh, he's like that slimy boss in "The IT Crowd" but didn't go a'Googling. Thought I was probably just imagining the resemblance.

Well, that will be fun if the voters all see the resemblance as well.  haha.


----------



## belboid (Apr 16, 2015)

Mirror readers poll on who is the best 'leaders wife':


----------



## The Boy (Apr 16, 2015)

A quick google reveals Mr Jepps to be ex-SWP.  Presumably some sort of entryist campaign to get him top of that poll?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

The Boy said:


> A quick google reveals Mr Jepps to be ex-SWP.  Presumably some sort of entryist campaign to get him top of that poll?


But does he have a dolphin tattoo on his heel?


----------



## The Boy (Apr 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> But does he have a dolphin tattoo on his heel?



That sound you hear is your point flying right over my head.  I can't even use the 'I've had a long day' excuse .


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

Have Zoo magazine done a readers poll on which political partner you'd most like to bone yet?


----------



## The Boy (Apr 16, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Have Zoo magazine done a readers poll on which political partner you'd most like to bone yet?



Jim Jepps came top.  We were all surprised.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Have Zoo magazine done a readers poll on which political partner you'd most like to bone yet?



Think a good note here is how #sexywelshaccent trended in the UK for Leanne Wood during the ITV debate.


----------



## treelover (Apr 16, 2015)

> Ken Clarke: Tory party is too rightwing and personal attacks won't work
> 
> Former chancellor says failure to create rebalanced economy is ‘single biggest issue affecting the country’ and warns against unfunded promises
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-too-rightwing-and-personal-attacks-wont-work




Clarke sticks the boot into the Tories even at this late stage


----------



## Sue (Apr 17, 2015)

belboid said:


> Mirror readers poll on who is the best 'leaders wife':


Oh FFS, what is this shite.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 17, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Think a good note here is how *#sexywelshaccent* trended in the UK for Leanne Wood during the ITV debate.



Charm of this in general can be limited --  in Wine Street, Swansea,well into Friday night anyway.

And that's just the fellers


----------



## brogdale (Apr 17, 2015)

Smithson reports Prof John Curtice addressing electoral bias at Political Studies association meeting counters the vermin's ludicrous meme that they need just 27,000 voters to switch for them to gain a majority.



> Curtice pointed out that even with a mass of Scottish losses LAB can win an overall majority with a 5% lead on GB vote share. *For the Tories the required vote lead is in the 7-11% region* depending on how successful the blue team is in its battles for current Lib Dem held seats.
> 
> Remember that in 2005 the Tories led LAB on votes in England yet the latter won 92 more seats.
> 
> *At 2010 the Tories had a vote lead in England of 11.4%. Yesterday’s Ipsos-MORI poll had LAB 2% ahead there.*


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 17, 2015)

English teacher marks mistake-ridden Ukip flyer that came through her letterbox 

Mirror (via reddit)


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> This is a real election leaflet in, of all places, newcastle.
> 
> (ta to spanky)



I would _so _love to see him door-knocking in Walker looking like that.


----------



## treelover (Apr 17, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> English teacher marks mistake-ridden Ukip flyer that came through her letterbox
> 
> Mirror (via reddit)



People aren't voting UKIP on their grammar skills, etc, patronising rubbish.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 17, 2015)

Well yes but they're the ones banging on about how people should learn English before they come over here.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 17, 2015)

innit


----------



## belboid (Apr 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> People aren't voting UKIP on their grammar skills, etc, patronising rubbish.


so they dont even have to appear vaguely competent? Well, if you dont mind being treated like a fool....


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> People aren't voting UKIP on their grammar skills, etc, patronising rubbish.



It's instructive, though, that a party that claims to make a big deal about appealing to "the common man" does so only semi-literately. It doesn't speak well of either the party or the person who wrote the poster's prose, which is probably why some parties make sure that local publicity material for elections is proof-read.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 17, 2015)

MAKE IT STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!


----------



## JTG (Apr 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> People aren't voting UKIP on their grammar skills, etc, patronising rubbish.


No, what's patronising is assuming that voters UKIP are trying to appeal to are only semi-literate


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> View attachment 70304
> 
> MAKE IT STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!



doesn't she wheel out this sort of thing every election?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 17, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> View attachment 70304
> 
> MAKE IT STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2015)

My old dear is meeting our Labour Party candidate on sunday. I think labour woman is going to be facing the 'why can't you be more like that SNP?' question cos after last debate she wants to vote nicola. I will report back on wether Labour woman is in the old school or of the blairite tendency


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 17, 2015)

Miliband: what's a 'Vice News'?

http://news.channel4.com/election2015/04/17/update-2966/

hipster points: nil


----------



## two sheds (Apr 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> doesn't she wheel out this sort of thing every election?



Didn't she do about 15 columns over the space of six months with 'I'm giving Brown just one more chance', 'just one more chance for Brown' ....?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 17, 2015)

The politics that dare not speak its name...


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 17, 2015)

The Boy said:


> A quick google reveals Mr Jepps to be ex-SWP.  Presumably some sort of entryist campaign to get him top of that poll?


I've met Jim, he's definitely the best of that list.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> I've met Jim, he's definitely the best of that list.


The two are not. Connected


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Didn't she do about 15 columns over the space of six months with 'I'm giving Brown just one more chance', 'just one more chance for Brown' ....?


Have a google for her and nose - decades of filth. 

Then remember 1983.


----------



## treelover (Apr 17, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Didn't she do about 15 columns over the space of six months with 'I'm giving Brown just one more chance', 'just one more chance for Brown' ....?




She has done it again in the G post mortem on the debate, gushing about Ed.


----------



## dennisr (Apr 17, 2015)




----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> doesn't she wheel out this sort of thing every election?


Yep, followed by "Labour may not be great but you must vote for them"


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 17, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Yep, followed by "Labour may not be great but you must vote for them"



She's already done that ....


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 18, 2015)

Had the pleasure of sitting in a sun-drenched beer garden this afternoon with a copy of the Scottish Daily Mail. Holy shit. They are _panicking_.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 18, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Had the pleasure of sitting in a sun-drenched beer garden this afternoon with a copy of the Scottish Daily Mail. Holy shit. They are _panicking_.



And well they should. Any sensible Tory in Scotland is going to tactically vote Labour or Lib Dem.


----------



## Celyn (Apr 18, 2015)

The Tories *might* hold on to the one Scottish M.P. they've got.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 18, 2015)

In the event of no one managing a majority, can the Tories ditch Cameron for someone else (likely Boris) before the second General Election? Or does their party constitution prevent it?


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 18, 2015)

They'll find a way if they want to. Changing a leader whilst 'in office' was possible, so I can't see how it wouldn't happen. It probably wouldn't involve a vote of no confidence, more likely a resignation for the sake of party unity. In such circumstances Labour might change leader too. There's no guarantee Boris will appeal country wide. The media would back him because he's good for creating stories they can sell papers with, but he's been pretty useless in London.


----------



## gosub (Apr 18, 2015)

Quartz said:


> In the event of no one managing a majority, can the Tories ditch Cameron for someone else (likely Boris) before the second General Election? Or does their party constitution prevent it?


The chatter amongst the politicos, is they'd keep Cameron at least this year as Tory leadership contests look unseemly to the electorate, also building a reserve fund for said second election. All other parties would avoid out of skinners, but if Milliband loses a vote of confidence, be in there interests  to hold out the two weeks for an election, and if Cameron wins nothing says the Tories have to have confidence in their own power to govern.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 18, 2015)

There's also the fact Boris already has a job, and a London mayoral election would be a mess they wouldn't want at this stage. He wouldn't have the brass neck to do both jobs at once.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Apr 19, 2015)

Quartz said:


> In the event of no one managing a majority, can the Tories ditch Cameron for someone else (likely Boris) before the second General Election? Or does their party constitution prevent it?


Sounds like you favour the Tories you scumbag.


----------



## Brechin Sprout (Apr 19, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> There's also the fact Boris already has a job, and a London mayoral election would be a mess they wouldn't want at this stage. He wouldn't have the brass neck to do both jobs at once.


"They" aren't bothered one way or another about elections. Nothing changes, it's just bread and circuses for the masses. Capital lumbers on.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 19, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> There's also the fact Boris already has a job, and a London mayoral election would be a mess they wouldn't want at this stage. He wouldn't have the brass neck to do both jobs at once.



How can you think that of Boris? 

Boris Johnson: 'There is no reason why I can't be MP and Mayor'


----------



## Quartz (Apr 19, 2015)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Sounds like you favour the Tories you scumbag.



Temper, temper. 

I'm voting Labour.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> My old dear is meeting our Labour Party candidate on sunday. I think labour woman is going to be facing the 'why can't you be more like that SNP?' question cos after last debate she wants to vote nicola. I will report back on wether Labour woman is in the old school or of the blairite tendency


Turns out our Labour candidate 'Is more to the left than she can campaign on' by her own words. So many secret reds in the  Labour Party! little articul8s just waiting till the moment is right and they can drag the party Leftwards!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

Spoiler: Wearing Lynx?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

Interesting graphic from UKPolling...


> _The graph below shows the net ratings for David Cameron and Ed Miliband from the four pollsters who ask leader ratings at least monthly (ComRes, ICM and Ashcroft all ask their versions of the question too, but not as frequently)._


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2015)

Quartz said:


> I'm voting Labour.


Sounds like you favour Tories.


----------



## Santino (Apr 19, 2015)

Has any analysis been done on whether the changes to voter registration will have an effect on the result?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

Went on a bit of an urban ramble today...about 6/7 miles through 2 parliamentary constituencies, (one of which is a marginal; Cronx Centrale), and saw 1 election window poster on the whole route. One; and we're reasonably observant types! 

This has the appearance of a sea-change in people's attitudes towards and engagement with party politics. I suppose the fact that folk either feel totally disconnected from the process, or are ashamed to publicly display affinity with such loathsome psychopaths, is to be celebrated!


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 19, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Temper, temper.
> 
> I'm voting Labour.



What's your constituency then?


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 19, 2015)

Not sure how much if any of this is going on in any other constituencies, but here in Swansea East, both the Green and Class War candidates have had to withdraw. The reasons we can't get our heads round yet, because the South Wales Evening Post report was so lamentably detail-devoid. It's a useless online search engine on that paper's site too.

Will do a bit of other searching online shortly.

But do any other Urbans know : Have the registration rules or nomination rules for candidates changed at all since 2010? 

Might be a Swansea-only fuckup I suppose.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> What's your constituency then?


SNP Gain.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> SNP Gain.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 19, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Not sure how much if any of this is going on in other constituencies, but herre in Swansea East, both the Green and Class War candidates have had to withdraw. The reasons we can't get our heads round yet, becuae the South Wales Evening Post report was so lamentably detail-devoid.
> 
> Will do a bit of searching online shortly.
> 
> ...


Both seems odd. Has someone signed the nomination papers for both of them maybe?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 19, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Sounds like you favour Tories.



Not the local waste of space.



danny la rouge said:


> SNP Gain.



Labour hold.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 19, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Went on a bit of an urban ramble today...about 6/7 miles through 2 parliamentary constituencies, (one of which is a marginal; Cronx Centrale), and saw 1 election window poster on the whole route. One; and we're reasonably observant types!
> 
> This has the appearance of a sea-change in people's attitudes towards and engagement with party politics. I suppose the fact that folk either feel totally disconnected from the process, or are ashamed to publicly display affinity with such loathsome psychopaths, is to be celebrated!



Not like that in Sheffield Central - lots of Labour posters and a smattering of Green Party ones. I did notice a Lib Dem sign up a couple houses down from my flat which must have been put up either late last night or early this morning, either way as of 7pm it's no longer there for some reason...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Not like that in Sheffield Central - lots of Labour posters and a smattering of Green Party ones. I did notice a Lib Dem sign up a couple houses down from my flat which must have been put up either late last night or early this morning, either way as of 7pm it's no longer there for some reason...




Have to say that on (another walk last week) we did see a couple of fucking, orange lozenge, bastard Brake, 'winning here', shite, stakeboard  signs. I have plans to re-visit the road during the hours of darkness.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 19, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Both seems odd. Has someone signed the nomination papers for both of them maybe?




I know, it's a mystery. Will get back to Urban on this when (if!) I find out any more.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Labour hold.


Aberdeen North? 

Nah.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 19, 2015)

I would be on the gin on a Sunday morning too. CUNTS


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I would be on the gin on a Sunday morning too. CUNTS



 but look at what these twats are delivering...talk about desperate...


----------



## J Ed (Apr 19, 2015)

Hopefully enough of the vermin-supporting toffs of Sheffield Hallam either vote for the blue vermin or UKIP rather than the yellow vermin


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2015)




----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

...and there's more from the 'National Government' party...


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 19, 2015)

Is the Labour literature in Sheffield Hallam any more professional than the above rubbish?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 19, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Aberdeen North?
> 
> Nah.



South. Yes.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 19, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Is the Labour literature in Sheffield Hallam any more professional than the above rubbish?



In Sheffield generally it is better IMO, Lib Dem literature always veers towards being very patronising


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2015)

Quartz said:


> South. Yes.


I agree that one's much closer.

Bookies are giving the SNP 8/11 in Abderdeen South. 

I'll take your bet.  What's your stake?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 19, 2015)

Vote Simon


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Vote Simon


 Do you think he'll vote for himself?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 19, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Do you think he'll vote for himself?



Surely the more important question is, will his feet be held to the fire?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Vote Simon


Good for Simon.  Harsh but fair.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 19, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'll take your bet.  What's your stake?



Sorry, I'm not doing betting this time around.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Sorry, I'm not doing betting this time around.


No, I wouldn't if I was you on those odds.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Surely the more important question is, will his feet be held to the fire?


Sorry, I thought that was the Hallam vermin. My bad


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2015)

How do we suppose Clegg's agent is going to stay within the campaign spending limit?


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 19, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Went on a bit of an urban ramble today...about 6/7 miles through 2 parliamentary constituencies, (one of which is a marginal; Cronx Centrale), and saw 1 election window poster on the whole route. One; and we're reasonably observant types!
> 
> This has the appearance of a sea-change in people's attitudes towards and engagement with party politics. I suppose the fact that folk either feel totally disconnected from the process, or are ashamed to publicly display affinity with such loathsome psychopaths, is to be celebrated!


i'm just back from a trip to devon via Wiltshire/Somerset and there were a shit tonne of Lib Dem and Tory placards. maybe three Labour posters in Bristol (Clifton) and a few Greens in Glastonbury.


----------



## Celyn (Apr 19, 2015)

brogdale said:


> ....  orange lozenge, bastard Brake, 'winning here', shite, stakeboard  signs. I have plans to re-visit the road during the hours of darkness.


What is this orange lozenge  thing?  Genuine question.


----------



## free spirit (Apr 20, 2015)

Lib dems round here are properly going for the Tory vote.

Which suits me fine, as I'm on a mission with the Greens to properly go for the Lib Dem (and Labour) former left of centre voters, and both of them think we're going to be pulling most votes from the other party, which is a little odd, but they don't really know what's in the process of hitting them.

I got made campaign manager for Leeds NW Greens a month or so back, and am in the process of pulling together a pretty strong local campaign, with 40 people out campaigning on Saturday, and a 30,000 run anti-austerity A3 leaflet in the process of being distributed, on top of 24k regional green newspapers, 10k student leaflets already gone out, 3000 A3 posters either out or being made into poster boards, and a load of local newsletters for the 2 key council wars. And 2 key wards are being canvassed most days.

I went around half of headingley earlier and didn't see a single poster for any party other than greens, Otley's apparently not far off as well (which was solidly Lib Dem last time), and we're now filling in the gap in between.

We're aiming to make this into a 4 way split, then who knows, but we'll probably get 10-15% just from the student vote. That's running on a solidly anti-austerity ticket against a Lib Dem who got nearly a 10k majority last time.

Will be quite amusing if we win given that we've had no central party support, and aren't an official target to win seat, just trying to work effectively with the 200 or so new members we have in the constituency. It's an outside chance, but if the lib dem vote collapses as much as it seems that it might, then it could happen. It's going to be had work reaching 32,000 houses with that much campaign material, but it looks like we might pull it together.

Lib Dem and Labour are both throwing huge resources at the campaign, and have more posterboards on the main roads, but away from them they've nothing up, whereas we have a good smattering of posters and poster boards all over the place. Tories seem to have given up on it entirely (probably to keep the lib dem in power), so there should be no chance of us splitting the vote and letting the tories in, which keeps things simpler.

Watch this space. I suspect we'll at least be one of the highest supported Green areas.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2015)

Celyn said:


> What is this orange lozenge  thing?  Genuine question.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 20, 2015)

free spirit said:


> Lib dems round here are properly going for the Tory vote.
> 
> Which suits me fine, as I'm on a mission with the Greens to properly go for the Lib Dem (and Labour) former left of centre voters, and both of them think we're going to be pulling most votes from the other party, which is a little odd, but they don't really know what's in the process of hitting them.
> 
> ...



But a big green vote will keep greg mulholland in place and help return a tory government. Sorry FS - im trying to persuade everyone  i know in leeds NW who is thinking of voting green to vote labour.


----------



## ibilly99 (Apr 20, 2015)

The nice Mr Janner says vote Labour.


----------



## Flanflinger (Apr 20, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Vote Simon


Wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 20, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> But a big green vote will keep greg mulholland in place and help return a tory government. Sorry FS - im trying to persuade every  i know in leeds NW who is thinking of voting green to vote labour.



I did consider moving in with one of my Hyde Park friends so I could register in Leeds NW and help evict the god botherer lib dem, but then Labour aren't really worth it. 

I'll possibly vote green in Leeds West if the candidate's any good, unless anyone else worthwhile is standing (pretty sure Spunking Cock are running here). Not voting for Reeves!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 20, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> I did consider moving in with one of my Hyde Park friends so I could register in Leeds NW and help evict the god botherer lib dem, but then Labour aren't really worth it.
> 
> I'll possibly vote green in Leeds West if the candidate's any good, unless anyone else worthwhile is standing (pretty sure Spunking Cock are running here). Not voting for Reeves!



Yeah im in leeds west - so TUSC will be getting my vote (unless any leeds NW green voters want to swap and vote labour in leeds NW).

Mulholland will keep his seat unless the greens switch to labour.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

Quartz said:


> South. Yes.








http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2015/apr/20/election-2015-constituency-map


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 20, 2015)

Here in Cambridge the Tory has just announced she is going to sue the LibDem for defamation: http://www.varsity.co.uk/news/8498


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Here in Cambridge the Tory has just announced she is going to sue the LibDem for defamation: http://www.varsity.co.uk/news/8498


Funny. You'd think that this is the last thing that Crosby would want; how to keep the 'nasty party' image alive and well....idiotic.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

Spoiler: Cartoon in today's "Scum"











kinnel!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

Have to admit that I do like proportional constituency maps like this one.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Spoiler: Cartoon in today's "Scum"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WT actual F?

Where would you even begin?


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 20, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Have to admit that I do like proportional constituency maps like this one.



What polling/modelling is that based on? It seems to show Leeds NW as a Tory gain.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 20, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Vote Simon



Now, if only some enterprising artist put another plank across the bottom, emblazoned with "Nice one, Simon!".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 20, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Good for Simon.  Harsh but fair.


Harsh? Comes across as a bit soft, to me!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 20, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> WT actual F?
> 
> Where would you even begin?



The bastinado for the "cartoonist"?


----------



## killer b (Apr 20, 2015)

the sun's desperate batting for the scum has been hair-raising. Were they this vicious in support of Labour when they crossed the floor?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

The colossal twunt of Uxbridge speaks of Sturgeon...


> Speaking to the Guardian beside a replica Spitfire outside the RAF bunker where Winston Churchill oversaw the Battle of Britain in 1940, *he compared Nicola Sturgeon to “a scorpion”, adding to the list of likenesses he has applied to the SNP leader which have so far included King Herod and Lady Macbeth.*



Their strategy is so limited it is almost unbelievable.


----------



## treelover (Apr 20, 2015)

> the sun's desperate batting for the scum has been hair-raising. Were they this vicious in support of Labour when they crossed the floor?




Yes, and their hipster managing editor Stig Abell(how did he get that job?) is never off Sky presenting this very liberal persona while his rags pour out their effluent.


----------



## treelover (Apr 20, 2015)

brogdale said:


> The colossal twunt of Uxbridge speaks of Sturgeon...
> 
> 
> Their strategy is so limited it is almost unbelievable.




who do you mean?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

Looks like Plaid are hoping for some of that Sturgeon shine to rub off onto their campaign.



> 7m ago14:26
> 
> *Leanne Wood*, the Plaid Cymru leader, has welcomed Nicola Sturgeon declaration at her press conference earlier that she supports Plaid’s call for Wales to get higher funding from Westminster. (See 11.58am.) Wood said:
> 
> ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 20, 2015)

I agree with Nicola


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

treelover said:


> who do you mean?



Negative, nasty, negative, vile, negative, "thatcherite give-away", negative, nasty, negative....

Jergetme?


----------



## treelover (Apr 20, 2015)

I mean who is the 'twunt of uxbridge'?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

treelover said:


> I mean who is the 'twunt of uxbridge'?


Do keep up tree.


----------



## killer b (Apr 20, 2015)

treelover said:


> Yes, and their hipster managing editor Stig Abell(how did he get that job?) is never off Sky presenting this very liberal persona while his rags pour out their effluent.


how is the managing editor of the sun a 'hipster'?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

killer b said:


> how is the managing editor of the sun a 'hipster'?


pronounced 'cuntster'


----------



## red & green (Apr 20, 2015)

It's been busy here - some young pub school type just came to the door with a clipboard and a blue tabard I was ready to let loose but they were fundraising for battersea dogs home.......


----------



## chilango (Apr 20, 2015)

Plenty of Green posters appearing in terraced streets round here in Reading East. A few Labour ones too. Nothing else. Tory canvassers obviously keen to speak to "hard-working families" we're out knocking doors at 2.30 this afternoon .


----------



## JTG (Apr 20, 2015)

Seen plenty of Green ones here too. Suspect they're the ones most likely to be smug enough to do the poster thing without shame. Fucking loads on my facebook too


----------



## JimW (Apr 20, 2015)

Man dressed as a clown runs off with a Lib Dem poster in Bisley

To be fair, clown trousers don't count as dressing up round Stroud.


----------



## youngian (Apr 20, 2015)

treelover said:


> I mean who is the 'twunt of uxbridge'?






> Letting the SNP into UK government with Labour would be like getting King Herod to run a baby farm, warns Boris Johnson.


This is the sort of remark that has apparently made Johnson one of the great political wits of our age. I have heard mercifully little from him in this campaign, lets hope it stays that way


----------



## killer b (Apr 20, 2015)

I dunno if the poster thing is indicative of anything other than the party in question having a few pretty active old-school campaigners in the area. I live in a safe labour seat and there's fuck all, my girlfriend lives in a safe labour seat (kaufman's) and you can't move for labour placards.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 20, 2015)

Interesting to see how Cameron's 'vote labour, you get the snp, you split the country' scare tactic will play out.  I've only heard one clip of him doing it - he sounded hysterical.  

Have a feeling it will have a slight impact in England, portraying the snp as wild eyed vandals, out to destroy the uk.  Ironically though, it probably strengthens the snp in Scotland itself.  Certainly gives Labour a strategic problem. There's an attack on the very party who are going to screw them in Scotland, but Labour need to defend the idea the snp will be reasonable and responsible in an informal coalition.  However they can't really say anything other than 'we intend to get a full majority'.  Also, they haven't really got sufficient friends in the media to really push the idea that a Lab-snp arrangement would be stable.

Anyway, it's amusing watching the yellow scum touting themselves to anybody who will listen. Pleeeeeease let me keep my ministerial car!


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 20, 2015)

Maisie Williams will be taking a "direct action" approach to the election:


----------



## youngian (Apr 20, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Spoiler: Cartoon in today's "Scum"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



However shite these Tory hack cartoonists are they can console themselves they are not Paul Thomas, a man who's work was so woeful he got the elbow from the Express


----------



## Wilf (Apr 20, 2015)

killer b said:


> I dunno if the poster thing is indicative of anything other than the party in question having a few pretty active old-school campaigners in the area. I live in a safe labour seat and there's fuck all, my girlfriend lives in a safe labour seat (kaufman's) and you can't move for labour placards.


Fucking hell, is kaufman standing again, he's 85!  Ageism aside... he's also a massive twat.


----------



## killer b (Apr 20, 2015)

I expect they'll have to remove him in a box


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

Another 6 mile (urban) ramble today, all within the 'safe' 'golden crescent' LD seat of C&W...and this was the only election poster/stakeboard that I saw. 

Yes, you're right...that is *the *Matthew Joseph Constable Maxwell Scott, the* heir presumptive to the Constable Maxwell-Scott Baronetcy, of Haggerston in the County of Northumberland.




*


----------



## JTG (Apr 20, 2015)

youngian said:


> However shite these Tory hack cartoonists are they can console themselves they are not Paul Thomas, a man who's work was so woeful he got the elbow from the Express



And yet Steve Bell still manages to earn a living


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 20, 2015)

I live in a safe Labour seat with a popular MP and Labour posters are the only ones you see, but there's not a huge amount. Go to Barnet though and some currently Tory held areas are awash with Labour posters and those estate agent sign things. I suspect that's partly to do with the unpopularity of the council.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2015)

Genuine Telegraph headline...


----------



## Wilf (Apr 20, 2015)

Ah, yes - 'Red Ed's Dead Dad, the man who hated Britain'.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 20, 2015)

Sheffield Hallam - former Tory backs Labour days after Conservative endorsed Clegg



> Vonny Watts, who stood for the Conservatives as a local council candidate in a 2013 by-election in Fulwood and came third, is now a member of the Labour party.
> 
> The former deputy chair of South Yorkshire Conservatives has publicly backed Oliver Coppard, the Labour candidate for Sheffield Hallam.
> 
> ...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 20, 2015)

haha


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Not sure how much if any of this is going on in any other constituencies, but here in Swansea East, both the Green and Class War candidates have had to withdraw. The reasons we can't get our heads round yet, because the South Wales Evening Post report was so lamentably detail-devoid. It's a useless online search engine on that paper's site too.
> 
> Will do a bit of other searching online shortly.
> 
> ...



Did you find out what happened?

So much for the £750 the Swansea Green party raised via crowdfunding to ensure that all three Swansea constituencies had a green candidate!

http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/swansea-bay-green-party/?


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 20, 2015)

For as long as I remember there's always been tactical voting against the vermin, it felt like a civic duty. Is this the first election where tactical voting against Labour is a feature or have I not been paying attention? Could it have an impact?  The Lib Dems seem to be actively encouraging it, mainly for their own benefit, with some Tory collusion e.g. fielding weak candidates or not actively campaigning.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 21, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> For as long as I remember there's always been tactical voting against the vermin, it felt like a civic duty. Is this the first election where tactical voting against Labour is a feature or have I not been paying attention? Could it have an impact?  The Lib Dems seem to be actively encouraging it, mainly for their own benefit, with some Tory collusion e.g. fielding weak candidates or not actively campaigning.


Liberals fielding a _weaker than normal candidate_.  Hmmm... I'm trying to imagine what such a sub-slimemould would be like.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 21, 2015)

The vermin are importing US Republican vermin to campaign for them because they can't find enough native vermin to scurry around on their behalf


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 21, 2015)

Republicunts


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 21, 2015)

What are the chances of the Lib Dems going into a Labour-led coalition?


----------



## belboid (Apr 21, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> What are the chances of the Lib Dems going into a Labour-led coalition?


the same as for Tranmere winning the Champions League by 2020.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 21, 2015)

what number of seats will they have left tobargain with really. They'll probably keep them scots islands and some of the safe ones down here...but they're on a losing streak here.


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 21, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> what number of seats will they have left tobargain with really. They'll probably keep them scots islands and some of the safe ones down here...but they're on a losing streak here.


Yeah, but every one of their seats is worth double, due to them going with the Tories if not Labour.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 21, 2015)

J Ed said:


> The vermin are importing US Republican vermin to campaign for them because they can't find enough native vermin to scurry around on their behalf





> In an unusual move, a team organised by the US Young Republicans International Committee will arrive on 2 May to help out in the marginal of Enfield North, and the constituency of Aylesbury, where the Conservatives face a challenge from Ukip, as well as the safer seat of Windsor. The move will be controversial because they are set to campaign though they are not able to vote in the UK.



I would imagine that it would be possible for a few beards & niqabs to assemble to 'welcome' the US citizens to our shores. They'd soon scurry back to Claridges, I'm sure.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 21, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> What are the chances of the Lib Dems going into a Labour-led coalition?


Libs only get into a coalition if Labour do better than in the current polls. If Labour up the number of seats they get, Lab + Lib might work and stop Labour having to dance with the scotnats.  Alternatively, they get in Tories get more seats than predicted, to make it Con + Lab (and the odd eye swiveller) = 326 or so.  At the moment, neither of those looks likely, so the yellow scum don't get in at all.  

Polls do look very static at the moment.  My no more than a guess is that the Tories might put on a point or two and end up with up to 25 sets more than Labour, but even that doesn't keep the Libscum in their ministerial salaries. Their problem is that  to get into govt they need Cameron to do well, but him doing well is likely to lose them a number of Lib-Con marginal in the South.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 21, 2015)

Lab will be pleased with the demographics within that total figure...



> According to Wired of those who registered yesterday “152,000 were aged 25 to 34 with 137,000 aged 16-24. People aged 35 to 44 were third on the list with 89,500 registrations.”


----------



## articul8 (Apr 21, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> What are the chances of the Lib Dems going into a Labour-led coalition?



I think the Labour right wing might well lobby for this option -


----------



## Quartz (Apr 21, 2015)

brogdale said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2015/apr/20/election-2015-constituency-map



'Based on Scotland-wide polling'. Not local polling. We'll see on the 8th.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 21, 2015)

Quartz said:


> 'Based on Scotland-wide polling'. Not local polling. We'll see on the 8th.


Have you not been reading the Ashcroft polling?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 21, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Have you not been reading the Ashcroft polling?



If you mouse-over some of the other constituencies it says 'based on _constituency_ _and_ Scotland-wide polling'. They've not bothered to talk to the people here.


----------



## JTG (Apr 21, 2015)

Quartz said:


> If you mouse-over some of the other constituencies it says 'based on _constituency_ _and_ Scotland-wide polling'. They've not bothered to talk to the people here.


I'm not surprised if you're anything to go by


----------



## Quartz (Apr 21, 2015)

JTG said:


> I'm not surprised if you're anything to go by



Do you insist everyone have exactly the same views as you? It must be very difficult to only be able to talk to the face in the mirror.


----------



## JTG (Apr 21, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Do you insist everyone have exactly the same views as you? It must be very difficult to only be able to talk to the face in the mirror.


I do actually. I am teh real fascist


----------



## brogdale (Apr 21, 2015)

Quartz said:


> If you mouse-over some of the other constituencies it says 'based on _constituency_ _and_ Scotland-wide polling'. They've not bothered to talk to the people here.



Perhaps you ought to email Ashcroft to ask him why he has missed some Scottish constituencies?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 21, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Perhaps you ought to email Ashcroft to ask him why he has missed some Scottish constituencies?



I'm sure he'll get to us in due course.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 21, 2015)

articul8 said:


> I think the Labour right wing might well lobby for this option -


Maybe - quite often though it seems to be the soft left that are keener on "rainbow" politics - Progress types in particular are so keen to win back Tory marginals that they would still criticise the Libdems from the right.  

In practice of course they will do a deal with whoever they need to... Certainly Labour would coalesce with the Libdems if the numbers added up.


----------



## Corax (Apr 22, 2015)

If ISIS want to declare a global caliphate, I want to know why they didn't get a chair at the televised election debate?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 22, 2015)

Farage has truly put his foot in it this time: he wants the BBC to stop making Doctor Who.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2015)

he hasn't said that, he's said he wants the broadcasters funding cut. The paper suggested which programmes that might be (and if you think the beeb would ditch three of its biggest foriegn export sellers, you are quite mad)


----------



## belboid (Apr 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> he hasn't said that, he's said he wants the broadcasters funding cut. The paper suggested which programmes that might be (and if you think the beeb would ditch three of its biggest foriegn export sellers, you are quite mad)


He didn't say so in so few words, but if the beeb were cut back to its purely public service remit, then all those popular exports would go.


----------



## Santino (Apr 22, 2015)

They could just hive off the commercially-viable programming into a separate privately-owned company which pays the BBC for the use of its intellectual property.


----------



## teqniq (Apr 22, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Farage has truly put his foot in it this time: he wants the BBC to stop making Doctor Who.


One could presume that his xenophobia is not purely confined to terrestrial individuals then.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2015)

american money would be easy to secure for Who. Its a big deal in america now. Apparently they were approached last year by Sony on the matter of making a film but Moffat the Prophet told them to go fuck themselves as he is fuhrer and has an 8 year plan for the show


----------



## Santino (Apr 22, 2015)

teqniq said:


> One could presume that his xenophobia is not purely confined to terrestrial individuals then.


 How dare you? Doctor Who is an Englishman. Even when - nay, especially when - he's Scottish.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 22, 2015)

Santino said:


> How dare you? Doctor Who is an Englishman. Even when - nay, especially when - he's Scottish.


"Dr Who" is the name of the programme; the character is called "the Doctor".


----------



## Quartz (Apr 22, 2015)

teqniq said:


> One could presume that his xenophobia is not purely confined to terrestrial individuals then.



Excellent! It's a pity I can't double-like that!


----------



## Santino (Apr 22, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> "Dr Who" is the name of the programme; the character is called "the Doctor".


----------



## gosub (Apr 22, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Farage has truly put his foot in it this time: he wants the BBC to stop making Doctor Who.



how long before the Dad's Army tapes got worn through?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 22, 2015)




----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2015)

I see the daily mail is in full headbanger mode, warning us all of secret Unite 'militants' pulling 'drop dead-ed's' (see: milifangirls) strings


----------



## rutabowa (Apr 22, 2015)

I really want labour and SNP to run the country.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 22, 2015)

rutabowa said:


> I really want labour and SNP to run the country.


http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/queen-palace-coup-miliband-snp-cameron-huitson-345


----------



## chilango (Apr 22, 2015)

Green posters popping up like mushrooms. Labour's stalled after the first handful. All other parties are unrepresented in the windows of Reading East.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 22, 2015)

rutabowa said:


> I really want labour and SNP to run the country.


I'd quite like Sinn Fein to come into the commons and join a Lab-snp-green coalition.  Daily Mail would, literally, explode.


----------



## The Boy (Apr 22, 2015)

Wilf said:


> I'd quite like Sinn Fein to come into the commons and join a Lab-snp-green coalition.  *Daily Mail would, literally, explode.*



Think they've left that all behind now, haven't they?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2015)

chilango said:


> Green posters popping up like mushrooms.



Same in Brighton. Re-elect Lucas everywhere.


----------



## krink (Apr 22, 2015)

Not sure how common this is but I've overheard a few people at work saying they wished SNP was in England as they'd vote for them if they could. Some of my mates have said the same to me.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2015)

^^ same here krink


----------



## elbows (Apr 22, 2015)

Being in a target seat we are getting a huge volume of election material from Labour through the door, almost daily it seems. Very little from other parties by comparison.


----------



## SE25 (Apr 22, 2015)

krink said:


> Not sure how common this is but I've overheard a few people at work saying they wished SNP was in England as they'd vote for them if they could. Some of my mates have said the same to me.



This is quite common after the 'debates'. Food for thought for the SNP, maybe.


----------



## bemused (Apr 22, 2015)

The Tories Croydon South advertising cheque musty have cleared I've had three leaflets from them today.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 22, 2015)

Maybe significant?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2015)

Maybe that 'high' could be granted from being pushed off the 5th floor of somewhere?


----------



## Celyn (Apr 22, 2015)

Oh, if it's "high" he wants, I'm sure Osborne could help him out.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 22, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Maybe that 'high' could be granted from being pushed off the 5th floor of somewhere?


Has to be...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2015)

Gives me the creeps that vid.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 22, 2015)

SE25 said:


> This is quite common after the 'debates'. Food for thought for the SNP, maybe.



Voting labour in England/Wales increases the likelihood of a government involving some SNP input, so that might be the best option for people south of the border. Given how popular Sturgeon appears to have been in the debates it's weird how the Tories think it's harmful to play up the possibility of the SNP forming a pact with their opponents.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 22, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Gives me the creeps that vid.


It really reminds me off this.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2015)

Jesus fuck


----------



## J Ed (Apr 22, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Gives me the creeps that vid.



Worst bad trip ever


----------



## free spirit (Apr 23, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> But a big green vote will keep greg mulholland in place and help return a tory government. Sorry FS - im trying to persuade everyone  i know in leeds NW who is thinking of voting green to vote labour.


we're going for the win, and will take more votes off lib dems than we will of labour anyway.

Frankly, fuck labour, and fuck the lib dems, they've both signed up to continuing with austerity after the election, will both sign the TTIP treaty, continue privatising the NHS, failing to raise the minimum wage to a living wage etc 

What difference will one more labour MP make compared to doubling the Green contingent in parliament? The Greens have explicitly stated that they'd not support a Tory government in any way, and would offer confidence and supply arrangements to Labour, but wouldn't support an austerity budget, so they aren't going to do a Lib Dems and end up supporting a tory government.

Greens are now winning the student vote in Leeds 35% to Greens, 32% to Labour, 6% to Lib Dem, and students are 25% of the constituency so that's a pretty good base of support to start from, and shows how the Greens have hovered up the Lib Dem student vote from last time - that's the highest proportion of the student vote in the country, which demonstrates the effects of the campaign work that's been going on in the area for the last couple of years. We're also massively winning the poster battle in most of headingley and Otley, though struggling a bit to counter the lib dems on the main roads.

We now have around 60 local campaigners active in the campaign in Leeds NW, I'm betting that neither lib dem or Labour can match that, though their party machines will probably be better set up I'm rapidly evening that situation up and we're in the process of ensuring all 32,000 houses get at least 3 of the Green Party leaflets, more in Headingley and Otley where we're going for council seats as well.

See how it works out, but Alex Sobel keeps shooting his campaign in the foot with false attacks on Mullholland, then having to issue appologies, including distributing 15,000 printed apologies.... it's a bit of a shambles of a campaign really, just with central party resources being thrown at it. Ours is at least a grassroots led shambles, and getting rapidly less shambolic.

We'll see how it pans out, but IMO it's probably as possible here as it is anywhere, and done with a properly anti-austerity based grassroots campaign.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 23, 2015)

free spirit said:


> we're going for the win, and will take more votes off lib dems than we will of labour anyway.
> 
> Frankly, fuck labour, and fuck the lib dems, they've both signed up to continuing with austerity after the election, will both sign the TTIP treaty, continue privatising the NHS, failing to raise the minimum wage to a living wage etc
> 
> ...



you really think the greens are going to win Leeds NW? The greens dont have single councillor in the constituency - its not going to happen. 
All the greens will do is help smug wanker mullholland keep his seat - and help keep the tories in power. And that will be considerably worse than labour/SNP - which is the only alternative. Im happy to trade a green vote in leeds west for a labour one in north west.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 23, 2015)

still floating in leeds nw between labour (<spits>) and alliance for green socialism


----------



## free spirit (Apr 23, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> you really think the greens are going to win Leeds NW? The greens dont have single councillor in the constituency - its not going to happen.
> All the greens will do is help smug wanker mullholland keep his seat - and help keep the tories in power. And that will be considerably worse than labour/SNP - which is the only alternative. Im happy to trade a green vote in leeds west for a labour one in north west.


we're definitely not going to win in Leeds West so that'd be a waste of a vote.

We don't have a councillor, but we were close to one in Headingley last year before the Green Surge in support.

If we win or not depends on how much the lib dem vote collapses, how much the labour campaign fails to inspire people to vote for them, and how much we inspire people to vote for us.

But it's among the most likely seats in the country to turn Green, and the candidate's a good candidate with decent politics, so worth going for it IMO.

We're attempting to make this election about austerity, we're the only serious anti-austerity party standing against 3 parties who've committed themselves to further spending cuts and austerity that polls indicate the majority of both labour and lib dem voters don't support.

It might not work, but at least we're putting the arguments out there in a pretty high profile way.


----------



## JTG (Apr 23, 2015)

The Greens think they'll win Bristol West too. They won't, but they may well help return Stephen Williams to Parliament


----------



## free spirit (Apr 23, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> still floating in leeds nw between labour (<spits>) and alliance for green socialism


ags are doing nothing at this election. 

so what people here seem to be saying is that voting for some no hope party aiming at getting into 3 figures is ok, but voting for a party with a pretty radical left wing set of policies that's pushing to challenge the big 3 in this constituency suddenly risks handing the constituency to the lib dems, so we should all just vote labour instead, despite them promising to pretty much stick to tory austerity spending plans.

how are we ever going to actually challenge this neoliberal status quo with that mindset?


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 23, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> you really think the greens are going to win Leeds NW? The greens dont have single councillor in the constituency - its not going to happen.


Yep, fantasy stuff. Green will probably keep Brighton but they aren't going to get another seat.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2015)

How do we fancy Galloways chances of keeping his seat? It would be nice if our taxes were not going to that nobhead.


----------



## free spirit (Apr 23, 2015)

As a comparison, Respect came from nowhere to win in Bradford last election, with very little prior press attention to it. OK so it was Galloway, but mostly that was a grassroots local campaign that did the legwork to make that happen.

membership in the constituency has gone up by nearly 6 times in the last year, membership in Yorkshire and Humberside has gone up 5 times. If we don't go for it now, then what conditions would we be waiting for before thinking that the time was right to go for it?

The Greens aren't perfect, but there's no better option around with the potential to take left and anti-austerity ideology into the mainstream, and tens of thousands of left wingers around the country have reached similar conclusions over the last year.

Anyway, that's my position on it, and if there's even an outside chance of getting a relatively left wing, anti-austerity, anti-neoliberal Green MP elected then that's my mission for the next 2 weeks. An outside chance is a lot better than no chance at all.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2015)

also, the labour incumbent was a bit wheey allegedly


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 23, 2015)

free spirit said:


> we're definitely not going to win in Leeds West so that'd be a waste of a vote.
> 
> We don't have a councillor, but we were close to one in Headingley last year before the Green Surge in support.
> 
> ...



Green Party results in 2010:

Leeds West: 1832(4.7% - close to retaining deposit)
Leeds NW: 508 votes (1.2%), sixth behind UKIP & BNP

There are also long standing green councillors in Leeds West (Farnley & Wortley ward), despite it not being 'lentil muncher' territory in any way.

The lib dems may well keep Leeds NW as mulholland has a strong local profile (a good turd-pointer) and is popular beyond the student demographic. Labour were third last time, there's a strong Tory vote in the leafy suburbs and this was a Tory seat in the 90s, the LDs will be courting this vote to keep the coalition in power.

I suspect the focus on Leeds NW is because it's an easier job canvassing students than knocking on doors in lower Wortley.


----------



## chilango (Apr 23, 2015)

I'd be absolutely astonished if the Greens won any seats aside from holding Lucas's. Even holding that will be a massive, massive result for them.

However, there clearly, visibly, is a huge leap of support for them. One which may produce some surprisingly good results.


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2015)

Good to see fs has brought his blank faced optimism over from the lib Dems. Exactly what the greens need.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 23, 2015)

Went for a pint with my son who announced to my complete disbelief that his mother was standing for TUSC in the council elections lol. Apparently TUSC are standing something like 500 candidates in theses elections?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 23, 2015)

free spirit said:


> As a comparison, Respect came from nowhere to win in Bradford last election, with very little prior press attention to it. OK so it was Galloway, but mostly that was a grassroots local campaign that did the legwork to make that happen.



Its no comparison at all. It was a by-election. And it was high profile candidate who was able to moblise large sections of close knit anglo-pakistani community to  vote for him. As well as REPECT being able to exploit an important issue for the local community (foriegn policy wrt iraq, palastine) It was also very much about localised issues (there was widespread discontent with the local labour politicians).

None of these factor are in place for the greens in leeds NW. The best they can hope for is to come fourth and keep their deposit.



free spirit said:


> Anyway, that's my position on it, and if there's even an outside chance of getting a relatively left wing, anti-austerity, anti-neoliberal Green MP elected then that's my mission for the next 2 weeks. An outside chance is a lot better than no chance at all.



There's not even an outside chance of an outside chance - instead anyone voting green in leeds NW (or any other marginal seat) with be helping the most vicious neo-liberal and most pro-austerity party stay in power.

My job involves working with people who are getting kicked to shit by the bedroom tax, benefit sanctions and slashed services - the greens saving their deposit in leeds NW and allowing the yellow vermin back in is not going to help them (or me). The torys getting turfed out will.


----------



## JTG (Apr 23, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> There are also long standing green councillors in Leeds West (Farnley & Wortley ward), despite it not being 'lentil muncher' territory in any way.


Are they still chummy with the Tories or has that been swept under the carpet these days?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

free spirit said:


> As a comparison, Respect came from nowhere to win in Bradford last election, with very little prior press attention to it. OK so it was Galloway, but mostly that was a grassroots local campaign that did the legwork to make that happen.
> 
> membership in the constituency has gone up by nearly 6 times in the last year, membership in Yorkshire and Humberside has gone up 5 times. If we don't go for it now, then what conditions would we be waiting for before thinking that the time was right to go for it?
> 
> ...


As campaign manager, how did you manage to spend your entire campaign budget two weeks before the general election actually takes place?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

JTG said:


> The Greens think they'll win Bristol West too. They won't, but they may well help return Stephen Williams to Parliament


I don't know if anyone else has posted this "middle class sect?" piece from Harris? I'd have thought that the BrisUrbs might have some take on this?

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...1/green-party-middle-class-bristol-west-video

e2a: interesting and revealing comment from Gr candidiate @6.30 referring to turnout in the ward stating that "*...8 and a half thousand people do not bother to get out of bed to vote..*"


----------



## rioted (Apr 23, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> There's not even an outside chance of an outside chance - instead anyone voting green in leeds NW (or any other marginal seat) with be helping the most vicious neo-liberal and most pro-austerity party stay in power.


By this logic we'll be stuck with Labour for ever and ever, no matter how bad they are, because they're not the Tories. Can you see ANY way to progress at all. Or are you HAPPY with a tweedle-dee, tweedle-dum politics?


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 23, 2015)

(Not sure what paper this was taken from, or what other options were put to the voters - may not have given them the option of Tory + Ld or Tory + UKIP)


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

Which flavour of shit sandwich would you like?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

Talking of shit sandwich's here's the key lab/con seats in England and wales and swing required - click 'get data' to download.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Talking of shit sandwich's here's the key lab/con seats in England and wales and swing required - click 'get data' to download.


Yeah, I saw that. What's with the ranking numbers starting at 27? Am I being a bit 'early in the morningish'?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 23, 2015)

rioted said:


> By this logic we'll be stuck with Labour for ever and ever, no matter how bad they are, because they're not the Tories. Can you see ANY way to progress at all. Or are you HAPPY with a tweedle-dee, tweedle-dum politics?



Well no - of course im not happy with that. For a more radical politics to break through, it will be on the back of large grass roots campaigns which then start to impact on the electoral process - i.e. a left wing version of what UKIP have done - not winning many seat but they have forced their concerns onto the agenda and had a major influence on the policies of the tory party in particular. 

In England the greens are not close to achieving that sort of grass roots momentum - and their appeal will always be limited - TUSC are even farther behind (although im voting for them in leeds west). But the political system is very much in flux and the possibilities for a radical progressive politics to break through are there in a way that hasn't been the case since 1979. 

The rumbling crises of democratic legitimacy and the shortcomings of the constitution likely  come to a head over the next few years and we may be looking at a more federalised political structure and a change in the voting system in the very near future. Meanwhile, post 2008,  the neo-liberal ideological hegemony is fracturing - this will open up more radical political possibilities - maybe on a localised/regional basis.  but i fear things will have to get a lot worse before we the equivalent of Syriza or podemos in the UK. 

A labour/SNP government will be the most left wing since 1979. Which says a lot about how dismal the politics of the UK has been since then.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Which flavour of shit sandwich would you like?




Depressing - yes. but thats based on the manifestos - so its relationship to reality is tenuous at best. Its clear the tories are going to absolutely gut the welfare state if they get in again. So its shit sandwich vs shit sandwich plus being force fed broken glass for dessert.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yeah, I saw that. What's with the ranking numbers starting at 27? Am I being a bit 'early in the morningish'?


Good question!


----------



## co-op (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Talking of shit sandwich's here's the key lab/con seats in England and wales and swing required - click 'get data' to download.



I'm a bit ?? here - where's Brentford & Isleworth? - Tory majority of less than 2000 over Labour, would only need 950 of them to switch and it's gone, that's closer than most of the ones on the list you've cited...


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

co-op said:


> I'm a bit ?? here - where's Brentford & Isleworth? - Tory majority of less than 2000 over Labour, would only need 950 of them to switch and it's gone, that's closer than most of the ones on the list you've cited...


He's missed it obv. That sort of thing can happen you know!


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 23, 2015)

co-op said:


> I'm a bit ?? here - where's Brentford & Isleworth? - Tory majority of less than 2000 over Labour, would only need 950 of them to switch and it's gone, that's closer than most of the ones on the list you've cited...



I guess it's based on the key seats that would lose Cons a majority.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> I guess it's based on the key seats that would lose Cons a majority.


Now i'm a bit ?? Every tory loss to labour would help towards that.


----------



## co-op (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> He's missed it obv. That sort of thing can happen you know!



BUT IT'S IN PRINT ON THE INTERNET!


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

co-op said:


> BUT IT'S IN PRINT ON THE INTERNET!


Maybe he think's it's three-way - though looking at the figures that would be a ridiculous thing to think.


----------



## co-op (Apr 23, 2015)

I have it down as a pretty straightforward Labour win - a bit of swing + quite a few LIb-Dems defecting. I think something's a bit borked with their list.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Now i'm a bit ?? Every tory loss to labour would help towards that.



I guess if there is less than a 2% swing Con to Lab, then with Libs tanking and the SNP taking Lab seats then those <2% Lab/Con marginals will not matter so much.


----------



## belboid (Apr 23, 2015)

he appears to be assuming that everything under 2% will be won by labour, which means ignoring the top 26 seats.  Probably right, but he might as well have listed them


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> I guess if there is less than a 2% swing Con to Lab, then with Libs tanking and the SNP taking Lab seats then those <2% Lab/Con marginals will not matter so much.


This is supposed to be simply a list of con/labour seats with swing to labour required to take them , no interpretation etc - but i think he's maybe fucked it all up. There are massive gaps - or he's chopped off the first 26.


----------



## co-op (Apr 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> he appears to be assuming that everything under 2% will be won by labour, which means ignoring the top 26 seats.  Probably right, but he might as well have listed them



I think this is it, explains the numbers being weird too. Thanks.


----------



## belboid (Apr 23, 2015)

I've just noticed, the tories are standing in 648 seats - ie all but two.  One of those two is Buckingham, Speaker Bercow's seat, so where's the other one?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

Not standing in Femanagh & South Tyrone or Belfast North. Bercow still stands as tory though?


----------



## belboid (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Not standing in Femanagh & South Tyrone or Belfast North. Bercow still stands as tory though?


That makes sense - altho Bercow is officially listed as 'Speaker' rather than tory. The beeb must still have him down under his original party


----------



## treelover (Apr 23, 2015)

> Tories have £30bn black hole in spending plans, says IFS
> http://www.theguardian.com/business...ve-30bn-black-hole-in-spending-plans-says-ifs



If this had been Labour the media would have savaged them, it still could be electoral dynamite.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 23, 2015)

Pre revolutionary situation alert:
http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....uce-surprise/story-26378714-detail/story.html


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 23, 2015)

Class War no platformed in Norwich
http://www.classwarparty.org.uk/labour-and-ukip-join-forces-to-no-platform-class-war/


----------



## rekil (Apr 23, 2015)

King Arthur standing for the "People's Party" in Salisbury. Cheeky royalist.


----------



## elbows (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Talking of shit sandwich's here's the key lab/con seats in England and wales and swing required - click 'get data' to download.



Can probably see from that why I'm prepared to go on about my location, Nuneaton, even more than usual in this election. In 2010 Labour parachuted a non-local candidate into the race, they haven't repeated that mistake this time. The candidate this time is very young and very local.

Having said that, I'm not sure that data is entirely error-free. Why is North Warwickshire not present? Former Labour minister Mike O'Brien only lost that seat to the tories by 54 votes in 2010. (The tory who took it has got bored of being an MP after one term and isn't standing again). Have I got confused about something?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

elbows said:


> Can probably see from that why I'm prepared to go on about my location, Nuneaton, even more than usual in this election. In 2010 Labour parachuted a non-local candidate into the seat
> 
> Having said that, I'm not sure that data is entirely error-free. Why is North Warwickshire not present? Former Labour minister Mike O'Brien only lost that seat to the tories by 54 votes in 2010. (The tory who took it has got bored of being an MP after one term and isn't standing again). Have I got confused about something?


Quick  version - we think he's chopped off the first 26 seats


----------



## elbows (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Quick  version - we think he's chopped off the first 26 seats



Yeah sorry I just realised I had missed a load of the thread.

I guess I will use the following list instead for now. It's colour coded so not hard to pick out the tory-labour ones.

http://labourlist.org/2013/01/labours-106-battleground-target-seats-for-2015/


----------



## Wilf (Apr 23, 2015)

copliker said:


> King Arthur standing for the "People's Party" in Salisbury. Cheeky royalist.


Momentary confusion there, thought you meant the King Arthur who is standing on a 'Free Barbican Apartments for All' ticket.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

So...yesterday I got an election leaflet through my door. It expressed anti-immigration, anti-EU and pro 'British jobs for British workers' views. Anyone want to guess from which party it was sent?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> So...yesterday I got an election leaflet through my door. It expressed anti-immigration, anti-EU and pro 'British jobs for British workers' views. Anyone want to guess from which party it was sent?



I dunno but judging by the WRP leaflet I just got I'm guessing that it wasn't them


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I dunno but judging by the WRP leaflet I just got I'm guessing that it wasn't them


No, not them! But the worrying thing is that it is not immediately obvious which one of the parties it is from.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 23, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Pre revolutionary situation alert:
> http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....uce-surprise/story-26378714-detail/story.html


I've just had a Left Unity leaflet through the door and it's the best bit of election communication I've seen yet here in Vauxhall (lib dems and tories haven't bothered, labour's has no policy in it, pirate party's is liberal populism & the SPGB's is ok but too wordy.) LU have been out on the streets locally and have made a massive effort. Shame it's total shoe-in for Kate Hoey and her right wing foxhunting shite. She doesn't even need to bother campaigning.


----------



## Flavour (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> So...yesterday I got an election leaflet through my door. It expressed anti-immigration, anti-EU and pro 'British jobs for British workers' views. Anyone want to guess from which party it was sent?




Labour


----------



## weepiper (Apr 23, 2015)

Pissed off. Some bad stuff has come out about the SNP candidate in my area to the point where I feel I now can't bring myself to vote for him. He's the only one with a realistic chance of turfing out the Labour incumbent who I really want rid of (voted for austerity among other things) but having done a bit of digging he looks like someone I don't want representing me. I'm probably going to vote SSP now as the candidate's a good bloke (Colin Fox, used to be an MSP, gave us free prescriptions) but he stands bugger all chance of getting in in a Westminster seat.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

Flavour said:


> Labour


I see where you're going with that, but no.


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> So...yesterday I got an election leaflet through my door. It expressed anti-immigration, anti-EU and pro 'British jobs for British workers' views. Anyone want to guess from which party it was sent?


I'm going to have a stab at the greens.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> I'm going to have a stab at the greens.



Not the Greens, no.


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2015)

we're running out of possibilities... TUSC?


----------



## Flavour (Apr 23, 2015)

Lib Dems


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> we're running out of possibilities... TUSC?


Not TUSC, either.

A clue; they're fielding only 7 candidates in total.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

Flavour said:


> Lib Dems


Nope.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Not TUSC, either.
> 
> A clue; they're fielding only 7 candidates in total.


Monster Raving Loony?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Monster Raving Loony?


No.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> No.


DUP?


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2015)

CLASS WAR?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

ELO?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> ELO?


The Move?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

OK, ok...it's the fucking NF.

Richard fucking Edmonds is standing in Car&Wall.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> The Move?


Nightriders ?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> OK, ok...it's the fucking NF.
> 
> Richard fucking Edmonds is standing in Car&Wall.



Car&Wall?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Car&Wall?


Carshalton & Wallington


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Nightriders ?


not all of them, though.  It's only the dog.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Carshalton & Wallington


Never heard of it mate.


----------



## Flavour (Apr 23, 2015)

edit : the NF?!?!


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

BNP stand 8 NF do 7. That's a real cold hard wake up to what they lost - from 338 last time to 8 and that by squeezing for the £500 deposits.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Never heard of it mate.


Low levels of deprivation and Lib Dem for last 5 elections. 

http://democraticdashboard.com/constituency/carshalton-and-wallington/


----------



## weepiper (Apr 23, 2015)

Weirdly enough the NF are also standing in Aberdeen.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> BNP stand 8 NF do 7. That's a real cold hard wake up to what they lost - from 338 last time to 8 and that by squeezing for the £500 deposits.



Yep. Here's the other constituencies with NF...



> *NATIONAL FRONT*
> The National Front, long a toxic brand even for Britain’s nazis, is standing seven candidates, including two in Scotland and one in Wales.
> 
> *Richard Edmonds – Carshalton and Wallington
> ...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Low levels of deprivation and Lib Dem for last 5 elections.
> 
> http://democraticdashboard.com/constituency/carshalton-and-wallington/


before that Tory for ages.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Weirdly enough the NF are also standing in Aberdeen.


Also Linlithgow & E. Falkirk


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Also Linlithgow & E. Falkirk


Bizarre. They stood there before and lost their deposit. Like, not even close to keeping it. I know the area. No idea why they'd think it fertile ground.


----------



## weepiper (Apr 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Bizarre. They stood there before and lost their deposit. Like, not even close to keeping it. I know the area. No idea why they'd think it fertile ground.


Riding on David Coburn's coattails? He's standing in the next constituency (Falkirk)


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Bizarre. They stood there before and lost their deposit. Like, not even close to keeping it. I know the area. No idea why they'd think it fertile ground.


Well, same here in the 'golden crescent' of LD SW GL. There's nothing here for Edmonds at all.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Well, same here in the 'golden crescent' of LD SW GL. There's nothing here for Edmonds at all.


Good.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Good.


 Well, the BNP got 1100 (2.4%) in 2010, but I can't see Edmonds getting anywhere near that.


----------



## JTG (Apr 23, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I've just had a Left Unity leaflet through the door and it's the best bit of election communication I've seen yet here in Vauxhall (lib dems and tories haven't bothered, labour's has no policy in it, pirate party's is liberal populism & the SPGB's is ok but too wordy.) LU have been out on the streets locally and have made a massive effort. Shame it's total shoe-in for Kate Hoey and her right wing foxhunting shite. She doesn't even need to bother campaigning.


Anything about their stance on wanking at work?


----------



## Wilf (Apr 23, 2015)

JTG said:


> Anything about their stance on wanking at work?


Can be difficult on the thigh muscles?


----------



## discokermit (Apr 24, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> ELO?


my mom used to go out with kelly groucutt. they met when him and his mate followed her and her mate after the matinee in the pictures in coseley.
his basslines were shit.


----------



## discokermit (Apr 24, 2015)

oh yeh, i got stuff to bring to the table.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

discokermit said:


> my mom used to go out with kelly groucutt. they met when him and his mate followed her and her mate after the matinee in the pictures in coseley.
> his basslines were shit.


*But at least he knew jasper carrot.*


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 24, 2015)

discokermit said:


> my mom used to go out with kelly groucutt. they met when him and his mate followed her and her mate after the matinee in the pictures in coseley.
> his basslines were shit.


didn't know you were a yank. Mom?


----------



## discokermit (Apr 24, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> didn't know you were a yank. Mom?


black country.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mom


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 24, 2015)

discokermit said:


> black country.


Surely then it's the Black Cuntroi?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Surely then it's the Black Cuntroi?


That's enough of your regionalist, *Saxon* snobbery.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 24, 2015)

I thought that 'Car&Wall' was 'Cornwall' being spelled in a regionalist accent


----------



## teqniq (Apr 24, 2015)




----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> I thought that 'Car&Wall' was 'Cornwall' being spelled in a regionalist accent


Well....actually that's not entirely unrelated. The 'wall' part of the place-name has the same (Anglo-Saxon imposed) derivation as does the 'Wal' in Wales, indicating that the location was one at which the invading Saxons came across a settlement of Britons. (originally "Waletone").

Although I'm a Jutish 'blow-in', I just wanted to point out the ancient British history of my adopted town. And Carshalton (orig. Aultone) has a very long history of habitation with an archeological record dating back to the neolithic.

Apols for off-thread ramble.


----------



## treelover (Apr 24, 2015)

> *Miliband's allegation on Cameron and migrant deaths is shameful, says No 10 *
> Downing Street says Labour leader should withdraw remarks that crisis in Mediterranean is direct result of failures in post-conflict planning for Libya
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...liband-allegation-cameron-libya-mediterranean




The Tories are livid about Milliband's attacks on Cameron over Libya, they claim he is partially blaming him for the catastrophe with the migrant boats. But the speech was more nuanced than that.

high stakes intervention by Ed here?

he was very impressive in his Chatham House speech on future labour foreign policy earlier.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 24, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I dunno but judging by the WRP leaflet I just got I'm guessing that it wasn't them


they've taken over a takeaway round the corner from me as their "election rooms"


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2015)

Just had the greens leaflet through. Rob Reeves, a man with a beard. Did he not get the 'never trust a man with a beard' memo?

he doesn't look like he weaves yogurt while planning to sterilise the proleteriat but he's probably hiding that. Behind his beard.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2015)

.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 24, 2015)

What happens if they all want another election then? Have the rules changed?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 24, 2015)

I imagine both Cameron and Miliband would immediately get the boot. That Boris would step in is obvious for the Tories - Osborne et al would be tarred with Cameron's brush - but who would step in for Miliband?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

Quartz said:


> I imagine both Cameron and Miliband would immediately get the boot. That Boris would step in is obvious for the Tories - Osborne et al would be tarred with Cameron's brush - but who would step in for Miliband?



Can you present any evidence or arguments to back up the numerous assertions in this post?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2015)

Quartz said:


> I imagine both Cameron and Miliband would immediately get the boot. That Boris would step in is obvious for the Tories - Osborne et al would be tarred with Cameron's brush - but who would step in for Miliband?


chukka will swoop in to save the day for labour and lead us all into the Glorious Day


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> chukka will swoop in to save the day for labour and lead us all into the Glorious Day


Where does this view come from? He's not been particularly impressive thus far. Is it because of those daft Obama comparisons from a few years ago?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 24, 2015)

killer b said:


> Where does this view come from? He's not been particularly impressive thus far. Is it because of those daft Obama comparisons from a few years ago?


Also I get the impression he's not well-liked either by activists or MPs


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2015)

killer b said:


> Where does this view come from? He's not been particularly impressive thus far. Is it because of those daft Obama comparisons from a few years ago?


I wasn't serious- but hes photographic (or do I mean telegenic? one of them), articulate, labour faithful, on QT a lot. Not beyond the realms ever surely? that he'd be in a position to go for a leadership challenge some day?


----------



## articul8 (Apr 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> chukka will swoop in to save the day for labour and lead us all into the Glorious Day


He's favoured by Mandelson now apparently.  My money would be on Burnham as the "unity" candidate.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I wasn't serious- but hes photographic, articulate, labour faithful, on QT a lot. Not beyond the realms ever surely? that he'd be in a position to go for a leadership challenge some day?


Leadership election takes months - no one swooping in or 'getting the boot' anytime soon.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

articul8 said:


> He's favoured by Mandelson now apparently.  My money would be on Burnham as the "unity" candidate.


You've changed your fucking tune.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 24, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> You've changed your fucking tune.


he's changed his fucking tune


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

articul8 said:


> He's favoured by Mandelson now apparently.  My money would be on Burnham as the "unity" candidate.


Can you knock the anti semitism on the head please?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

articul8 said:


> he's changed his fucking tune


No he ain't. You were just wrong.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 24, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Can you knock the anti semitism on the head please?


 what??


----------



## articul8 (Apr 24, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> No he ain't. You were just wrong.


he's shifted his ground - no doubt with an eye on the leadership...


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

No he hasn't. He hasn't moved an inch. You just didn't know your own party outside the bubble. I did.


----------



## belboid (Apr 24, 2015)

articul8 said:


> he's shifted his ground - no doubt with an eye on the leadership...


in what way?


----------



## articul8 (Apr 24, 2015)

belboid said:


> in what way?


He was quite pro PFI - he's opposition to the Health and Social Care Act has been more resolute than might have been feared, and he's done very well in that brief


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

articul8 said:


> He was quite pro PFI - he's opposition to the Health and Social Care Act has been more resolute than might have been feared, and he's done very well in that brief



Was he pro-pfi in the leadership election campaign?


----------



## articul8 (Apr 24, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Was he pro-pfi in the leadership election campaign?


not if he'd any sense


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 24, 2015)

I don't think Boris will pick up a leadership role until after he's quit being mayor, otherwise it'd be a bit of a piss take (not necessarily beyond him, but I think his current employers wouldn't look on it favourably).


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

articul8 said:


> not if he'd any sense


This is getting tiresome. Why can't you just answer a question related to your own claim?


----------



## belboid (Apr 24, 2015)

articul8 said:


> He was quite pro PFI - he's opposition to the Health and Social Care Act has been more resolute than might have been feared, and he's done very well in that brief


I missed any pro-PFIness. If he hadn't opposed the H&SCA wholeheartedly then he'd have been a complete idiot. He does seem to have been reasonably competent at that, its true, which is something of a change, I suppose.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

belboid said:


> I missed any pro-PFIness. If he hadn't opposed the H&SCA wholeheartedly then he'd have been a complete idiot. He does seem to have been reasonably competent at that, its true, which is something of a change, I suppose.


He was pro-pfi in the way that pretty much all labour people 97-2010 were. I don't see where he's changed his tune since 2010 - he hasn't.

It's a daft claim on articul8's part to make it that his idea that Burnham was "a pretty trivial figure" in 2010 is still correct and that the worlds has actually changed around his correctness. Everything else changed.


----------



## co-op (Apr 24, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> Also I get the impression he's not well-liked either by activists or MPs



He's a total careerist and not anywhere near as smart as he thinks. He only got into Parliament because he was running against the odious Steve Reed for the Labour candidacy in Streatham and Reed (who has a gift for pissing people off) pissed what's left of the local Labour Party off even more than before by acting as though it was a coronation. Chuka got lucky, or more likely he's just got a careerists nose for an opportunity. He's the grandson of a High Court Judge, went to private schools and has said he'd send his children to the same. His main asset is having a few drops of African blood so he can make all his upper-middle class chums feel excitingly non-racist. 

I'm not a fan.


----------



## elbows (Apr 24, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> I don't think Boris will pick up a leadership role until after he's quit being mayor, otherwise it'd be a bit of a piss take (not necessarily beyond him, but I think his current employers wouldn't look on it favourably).



The Evening Standard looked into these sorts of possibilities in February:

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...-mean-an-early-mayoral-election-10049225.html

£18 million cost to taxpayer if he quits as mayor before November 5th (if he quits with less than 6 months till next mayoral election then the statutory deputy steps in to finish the term, otherwise there has to be a by-election).


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 24, 2015)

Chukka is definitely seen as a contender for Labour leadership, but largely by himself.


----------



## gosub (Apr 24, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Chukka is definitely seen as a contender for Labour leadership, but largely by himself.


He was on QT against Farage months back , can't remember what it was about but Farage said X had happened that week in the Commons Chukka said 'I was there, it didn't'  a quick look at hansard on the night,   Farage was right.   Bullshitting like that would catch up with him quite quickly in a leadership contest


----------



## Flanflinger (Apr 24, 2015)

teqniq said:


>


Someone could make a fortune marketing those.


----------



## Sue (Apr 24, 2015)

So far I've had two election leaflets through the post (Labour and Tory). Three through the door (Green, WRP, TUSC) which are all for the wrong consituency -- can only assume I live right on the border. I've seen a couple of Green posters up, one Labour leaflet someone's stuck in their window and that's absolutely it. Assume since they weigh the Labour vote round here, no-one can be arsed.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 24, 2015)

JTG said:


> Anything about their stance on wanking at work?


Lol, a mysterious absence of detail on their policy around defence - and particularly hand to gland combat


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 24, 2015)

We've had a WRP leaflet at my girlfriend's flat, for Hackney South & Shoreditch, which isn't her constituency. 

Haven't been back to my house for six weeks, I'll probably have a stack waiting for me, although I don't usually get many as it's an ultra-safe labour seat.


----------



## free spirit (Apr 24, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> As campaign manager, how did you manage to spend your entire campaign budget two weeks before the general election actually takes place?


that would be down to not having a lot in the first place, plus a cunning plan to just go for it and hope that by going for it the campaign was able to motivate either the party or members to chip more money in as they saw that we were actually in with a chance of doing better than just keeping our deposit.

We've now had extra funding from central party for the last bit after we pointed out that Leeds Uni had just polled the highest out of 20 universities surveyed in the country for the Green vote, which put us on around 9% just from the student vote alone, so maybe they ought to help us fund the last couple of weeks of the campaign, and we should get another boost from a crowd funder campaign too.

There is some method behind my madness, mostly based around just going for it and trusting that people will be more likely to join in with a campaign they see has some serious momentum, which is what's happening.


----------



## free spirit (Apr 24, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> In England the greens are not close to achieving that sort of grass roots momentum


60,000 members in England and wales now, pretty much 50,000 of which have joined in the last year.

how much momentum would a grass roots movement need to have before you considered it worthwhile people actually voting for them as opposed to labour?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

free spirit said:


> 60,000 members in England and wales now, pretty much 50,000 of which have joined in the last year.
> 
> how much momentum would a grass roots movement need to have before you considered it worthwhile people actually voting for them as opposed to labour?


As much as last time when you  sold  the exact same shit in the lib-dem guise. Purple surge. Fuck off.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 24, 2015)

free spirit said:


> that would be down to not having a lot in the first place, plus a cunning plan to just go for it and hope that by going for it the campaign was able to motivate either the party or members to chip more money in as they saw that we were actually in with a chance of doing better than just keeping our deposit.
> 
> We've now had extra funding from central party for the last bit after we pointed out that Leeds Uni had just polled the highest out of 20 universities surveyed in the country for the Green vote, which put us on around 9% just from the student vote alone, so maybe they ought to help us fund the last couple of weeks of the campaign, and we should get another boost from a crowd funder campaign too.
> 
> There is some method behind my madness, mostly based around just going for it and trusting that people will be more likely to join in with a campaign they see has some serious momentum, which is what's happening.




As a Green Party organiser how often do you hear things from Green Party members about, or attitudes towards, working-class people which make you feel uncomfortable? I only ask because I do not seek out or know very many Green Party members but the few that I have known take very little time in displaying bigoted issues in this respect, this always disappoints me because often they seem to match my own beliefs (or act as if they do) on a number of issues. I would think that as someone who organises Green Party members you must have this experience quite often unless things in Leeds are very different to Sheffield.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

free spirit said:


> that would be down to not having a lot in the first place, plus a cunning plan to just go for it and hope that by going for it the campaign was able to motivate either the party or members to chip more money in as they saw that we were actually in with a chance of doing better than just keeping our deposit.
> 
> We've now had extra funding from central party for the last bit after we pointed out that Leeds Uni had just polled the highest out of 20 universities surveyed in the country for the Green vote, which put us on around 9% just from the student vote alone, so maybe they ought to help us fund the last couple of weeks of the campaign, and we should get another boost from a crowd funder campaign too.
> 
> There is some method behind my madness, mostly based around just going for it and trusting that people will be more likely to join in with a campaign they see has some serious momentum, which is what's happening.


You spent all the money 14 days before the election? A school boy error - and your defence is that you didn't have more?  Bin-men everywhere, tremble.

I spent all the money. I can get more though, trust me.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

Manager cunt


----------



## free spirit (Apr 24, 2015)

J Ed said:


> As a Green Party organiser how often do you hear things from Green Party members about, or attitudes towards, working-class people which make you feel uncomfortable? I only ask because I do not seek out or know very many Green Party members but the few that I have known take very little time in displaying bigoted issues in this respect, this always disappoints me because often they seem to match my own beliefs (or act as if they do) on a number of issues. I would think that as someone who organises Green Party members you must have this experience quite often unless things in Leeds are very different to Sheffield.


can't really say that I've heard anything like that that I can think of.

One thing to bear in mind is that the old guard of the green party are now vastly outnumbered by new recruits who're almsot exclusively coming in from at least an anti-austerity agenda, with a fair number of left wingers from the labour party and other left parties joining, but mainly lots of people who've never been involved in a party in their lives before.

I'm not saying I've not had any issues within the party, I have, but mainly over campaign methods, and how ambitious we should be with the campaign etc.

I did put in a serious objection to the manifesto gdp growth assumptions, as they didn't match up with the idea of stimulating the economy via spending. I didn't entirely get what I wanted, but the final figures actually were adjusted upward to make them at least a bit less wrongheaded. After seeing that the party really does take internal democracy seriously, and is open to discussion and changing things, I decided to stick with it as the policies make sense even if the figures didn't really, and that's an argument that can be had after the election.


----------



## free spirit (Apr 24, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> You spent all the money 14 days before the election? A school boy error - and your defence is that you didn't have more?  Bin-men everywhere, tremble.
> 
> I spent all the money. I can get more though, trust me.


so what would you have done then? Just stuck with the existing budget, play safe, have lots of volunteers but no campaign materials for them to distribute?

One way we have a chance of running a proper campaign that just might achieve something, the other way we may as well not bother.

anyway this is pointless isn't it.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

free spirit said:


> so what would you have done then? Just stuck with the existing budget, play safe, have lots of volunteers but no campaign materials for them to distribute?
> 
> One way we have a chance of running a proper campaign that just might achieve something, the other way we may as well not bother.
> 
> anyway this is pointless isn't it.


Fucking right it is.


----------



## free spirit (Apr 24, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> As much as last time when you  sold  the exact same shit in the lib-dem guise. Purple surge. Fuck off.


I actually did learn from that.

Before getting involved I sat the candidate down and grilled him on his personal positions on a range of stuff, but mainly what his position was on neoliberal economics, austerity and the zero growth and positive money crap that's crept into a strain of green party thinking and policies.

I liked the answers given, and the hustings talks I've seen from him so far have been pretty much spot on.

I've no doubt there are green party candidates around the country who fit your stereotypes of them, but I'm not campaigning for them.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

free spirit said:


> I actually did learn from that.
> 
> Before getting involved I sat the candidate down and grilled him on his personal positions on a range of stuff, but mainly what his position was on neoliberal economics, austerity and the zero growth and positive money crap that's crept into a strain of green party thinking and policies.
> 
> ...


You grilled the candidate who was in place months before you joined the party? Alan sugar shit. I sat him down. Look at yourself. You spent all the money 14 days before the election - you left no room to manouvere.I bet the agent loves the professionalism that you brought. You spent all the money you silly cunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

_Oh yeah,i forgot about the important two weeks. The two weeks before that, fuck me we were hot.
_
What did you learn from your _lib-dem leadership again?

_


----------



## Sue (Apr 24, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> We've had a WRP leaflet at my girlfriend's flat, for Hackney South & Shoreditch, which isn't her constituency.
> 
> Haven't been back to my house for six weeks, I'll probably have a stack waiting for me, although I don't usually get many as it's an ultra-safe labour seat.


Likewise, in HN&SN and getting leaflets for HS&S. Still, after the revolution, there will no longer be these petty distinctions, Comrade.


----------



## free spirit (Apr 24, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> You grilled the candidate who was in place months before you joined the party? Alan sugar shit. I sat him down. Look at yourself. You spent all the money 14 days before the election - you left no room to manouvere.I bet the agent loves the professionalism that you brought. You spent all the money you silly cunt.


what would be the point in having loads of money in the bank now?

What we have is tens of thousands of leaflets, newspapers, posters, posterboards etc. in place and being distributed and a campaign that has gained a lot of momentum by campaigning hard for months before the election not just in the last 2 weeks.

On top of that we're now raising additional funds to do more if we can, but we'll already have distributed 3000 posters, and over 100,000 leaflets / newspapers across the constituency without that additional funding for the last push.

Now, that's the level of campaigning I'm pulling together, sorry if it doesn't meet with you approval.


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## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

But no money to react to anything that happens in the key weeks. Clown. Sheds of stuff that'll get binned mind. Keep the recyclers busy.

You're begging on the internet for money. Because the manager spent it all too quickly. Fuck off.


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## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

free spirit said:


> Now, that's the level of campaigning I'm pulling together, sorry if it doesn't meet with you approval.


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## free spirit (Apr 24, 2015)

brilliant response. Next time I'm after some campaigning advice I'll be sure to think of you, you obviously have so much to offer.


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## butchersapron (Apr 24, 2015)

free spirit said:


> brilliant response. Next time I'm after some campaigning advice I'll be sure to think of you, you obviously have so much to offer.


Hang on, next time you need someone to laugh at your a)managerial pretentions and b) the effect of the former -then you will call me? Sounds a deal.


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## Dogsauce (Apr 24, 2015)

Sue said:


> Likewise, in HN&SN and getting leaflets for HS&S. Still, after the revolution, there will no longer be these petty distinctions, Comrade.



The boundary here does actually run through her building (one wing of the block in each constituency), so it's kind of understandable (although the entrances and letterboxes are at separate ends).


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## redsquirrel (Apr 25, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I would think that as someone who organises Green Party members you must have this experience quite often unless things in Leeds are very different to Sheffield.


Considering that (as JTG mentioned the other day) Leeds Greens got into bed with the yellow scum and Tories I doubt it.


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## free spirit (Apr 25, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Considering that (as JTG mentioned the other day) Leeds Greens got into bed with the yellow scum and Tories I doubt it.


10 years ago when the vast majority of the current membership weren't members, and voluntarily walked out of that arrangement after a couple of years over policy issues.

5 years ago the Green councillors supported a minority labour council on a confidence and supply basis for a year, in preference to a potential contiuation of the libdem, tory coalition, yet that bit seems to get conveniently forgotten.

The situation now is that the Green Party conference committed the party not to go into coalition with anyone in government, not to support any austerity budget, and the leadership has explicitly stated that they won't prop up a conservative government in any way. 

I'm not really sure what more the Greens could do to make it clear that they aren't about to do a lib dems and jump into bed with the tories to satisfy a lust for a ministerial position.


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## redsquirrel (Apr 25, 2015)

Well not employ scab labour could be a start.


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## rioted (Apr 25, 2015)

free spirit said:


> 10 years ago when the vast majority of the current membership weren't members, and voluntarily walked out of that arrangement after a couple of years over policy issues.
> 
> 5 years ago the Green councillors supported a minority labour council on a confidence and supply basis for a year, in preference to a potential contiuation of the libdem, tory coalition, yet that bit seems to get conveniently forgotten.


I'm enjoying the way Labour supporters delve into the past to find negatives against their rivals to the left.  I went to hear Dennis Skinner speak a couple of weeks ago - he spent most of his time slagging off the SNP although no member of his audience could possibly vote for them. The only evidence he could come up with against them was that they'd sided with the Tories in the 1979 (!) vote of confidence to bring down Callaghan! Desperate or what? Of course you only have to go back 5 years to find evidence of Labour privatising the NHS, demonising those on Benefits, hitting the Low paid and generally being total tosspots.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2015)

if you think the greens are shit= must be a Labour supporter


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## J Ed (Apr 25, 2015)

Cameron forgets which team he is supposed to like


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## brogdale (Apr 25, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Cameron forgets which team he is supposed to like


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## brogdale (Apr 25, 2015)

dave was in Croydon town this morning...looking for _a_ _black_ _man_....apparently...



Gavin ("who gets things done")...


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## killer b (Apr 25, 2015)

fucking hell, he's so shit. where did his rep for statesmanlike leadership come from? has no one actually watched him speak?


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## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 25, 2015)

who is he supposed to support?


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## weepiper (Apr 25, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> who is he supposed to support?


Villa. Same colours. Easy mistake to make etc


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## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2015)

killer b said:


> fucking hell, he's so shit. *where did his rep for statesmanlike leadership come from?* has no one actually watched him speak?


posh accent goes a long way I suppose


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## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 25, 2015)

rioted said:


> I'm enjoying the way Labour supporters delve into the past to find negatives against their rivals to the left.  I went to hear Dennis Skinner speak a couple of weeks ago - he spent most of his time slagging off the SNP although no member of his audience could possibly vote for them. The only evidence he could come up with against them was that they'd sided with the Tories in the 1979 (!) vote of confidence to bring down Callaghan! Desperate or what? Of course you only have to go back 5 years to find evidence of Labour privatising the NHS, demonising those on Benefits, hitting the Low paid and generally being total tosspots.


whereas you only have to go back to this year to see the Greens being mendacious wankers in Brighton


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 25, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Villa. Same colours. Easy mistake to make etc


Should've gone for Scunthorpe then,get that Northern support


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 25, 2015)

free spirit said:


> 10 years ago when the vast majority of the current membership weren't members, and voluntarily walked out of that arrangement after a couple of years over policy issues.
> 
> 5 years ago the Green councillors supported a minority labour council on a confidence and supply basis for a year, in preference to a potential contiuation of the libdem, tory coalition, yet that bit seems to get conveniently forgotten.
> 
> ...


Win some seats before you can run.


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## killer b (Apr 25, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> posh accent goes a long way I suppose


he won't have even been on the debate team at Eton. Or if he was, they have a shitter standard than we're led to believe.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 25, 2015)

free spirit said:


> I'm not really sure what more the Greens could do to make it clear that they aren't about to do a lib dems and jump into bed with the tories to satisfy a lust for a ministerial position.



I reckon 5 years to the day (or month at least) i can find you saying the exact same thing about the lib-dems.


----------



## killer b (Apr 25, 2015)

five years. you're shit at maths.


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## butchersapron (Apr 25, 2015)

I typed 5!


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 25, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Chukka is definitely seen as a contender for Labour leadership, but largely by himself.



And some of his colleagues who know that Chuckie is smiled upon by the corporates. Fortunately his acolytes aren't really in any position to assist him to power. He's undoubtedly talented, for whatever that's worth, but he's as much a hollow man as Cameron or Blair - willing to shit on the poor to put money in the pockets of his mates.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 25, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> And some of his colleagues who know that Chuckie is smiled upon by the corporates. Fortunately his acolytes aren't really in any position to assist him to power. He's undoubtedly talented, for whatever that's worth, but he's as much a hollow man as Cameron or Blair - willing to shit on the poor to put money in the pockets of his mates.



Which of the current er incumbents, can't really call them MPs I suppose - do you think would like Chukka to be leader? Not saying there aren't any just can't think who


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## rutabowa (Apr 25, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Should've gone for Scunthorpe then,get that Northern support


possibly the only thing that would make me consider switching vote.

not really, I guess I'll vote labour till my death (unless I move to scotland)


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 25, 2015)

free spirit said:


> so what would you have done then? Just stuck with the existing budget, play safe, have lots of volunteers but no campaign materials for them to distribute?
> 
> One way we have a chance of running a proper campaign that just might achieve something, the other way we may as well not bother.



Only if you don't have the _nous_ or the creativity to make a virtue of your skintness. Sure, flyers through every second door is the traditional thing to do, but you could easily reach as many people in the constituency by having a stall at the local market, and engaging local people on the issues.

Looks like your party had a shite campaign manager.


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## brogdale (Apr 25, 2015)

rutabowa said:


> possibly the only thing that would make me consider switching vote.
> 
> not really, I guess I'll vote labour till my death (unless I move to scotland)


Reminds me of the old pub-quiz favourite..."_name 3 England captains that played for Scunthorpe?"_


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## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 25, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Only if you don't have the _nous_ or the creativity to make a virtue of your skintness. Sure, flyers through every second door is the traditional thing to do, but you could easily reach as many people in the constituency by having a stall at the local market, and engaging local people on the issues.
> 
> Looks like your party had a shite campaign manager.



is a having a high street stall really thinking outside the box?


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## rutabowa (Apr 25, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Reminds me of the old pub-quiz favourite..."_name 3 England captains that played for Scunthorpe?"_


ian botham and...2 more. (er im not really a very active fan)


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## brogdale (Apr 25, 2015)

rutabowa said:


> ian botham and...2 more.


Well...yeah...but surely you know?


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## JTG (Apr 25, 2015)

rutabowa said:


> ian botham and...2 more. (er im not really a very active fan)


Kevin Keegan and Ray Clemence!


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## rutabowa (Apr 25, 2015)

not without googling. which would be cheating. err ray clemence maybe?


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## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 25, 2015)

up the iron! Keegan and Clemence


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 25, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Which of the current er incumbents, can't really call them MPs I suppose - do you think would like Chukka to be leader? Not saying there aren't any just can't think who



The usual Blairite suspects, really. Hodge and Jowell both rate him (and like the idea of being a "power behind the throne"), and Sadiq Khan has made it clear he'd vote Chuckles in a post-Miliband situation (if he weren't running himself, blates).
There's also quite a few ex-MPs and/or members of t'other chamber who support him, including the likes of Purnell, Mandelson and Milburn (again, all of who see themselves as a Cardinal Richelieu to Chuckie's Louis XIII).


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## rutabowa (Apr 25, 2015)

weyy I got 2 of 3. ive got ray clemences england shirt from a school raffle so I should have got that straight away


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 25, 2015)

free spirit said:


> what would be the point in having loads of money in the bank now?
> 
> What we have is tens of thousands of leaflets, newspapers, posters, posterboards etc. in place and being distributed and a campaign that has gained a lot of momentum by campaigning hard for months before the election not just in the last 2 weeks.
> 
> ...



The problem being that conventional publicity material is more likely to go straight in the recycling bin, than get read. It's a case of the law of diminishing returns - as politics gets shittier, fewer people are willing to pay any attention to flyers and other printed material containing the the party-political gibberings of politicians. The only thing that really still works in the conventional armoury is solid canvassing over a period of time, and even the major parties seldom have the constituency-level manpower to do that nowadays. 20-30 years ago things were different, but now? Even insurgent politics can't generally raise those sort of numbers at constituency level. The mass canvass at Barking & Dagenham in 2010 that saw off the BNP was a co-operative effort between Labour activists from the south-east of England, and other anti-fascist and anti-racist activists from all around the UK.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 25, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Well not employ scab labour could be a start.



That'd be a rational position for *any* politician to take, which is why so few will.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 25, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> is a having a high street stall really thinking outside the box?



Well, I did say at the local market, not outside the public khazis!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 25, 2015)

free spirit said:


> 60,000 members in England and wales now, pretty much 50,000 of which have joined in the last year.
> 
> how much momentum would a grass roots movement need to have before you considered it worthwhile people actually voting for them as opposed to labour?



Well outside of marginal seats it doesn't matter. 

but i dont think it be can classed as a significant grassroots movement until a least 2 of the following are true: When its  polling around 20%, can put a hundred thousand people on the streets, have support from or a strong presence within a significant section of the union movement, when they have wide spread involvement in community campaigns/actions and local politics.


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## chilango (Apr 25, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The problem being that conventional publicity material is more likely to go straight in the recycling bin, than get read. It's a case of the law of diminishing returns - as politics gets shittier, fewer people are willing to pay any attention to flyers and other printed material containing the the party-political gibberings of politicians. The only thing that really still works in the conventional armoury is solid canvassing over a period of time, and even the major parties seldom have the constituency-level manpower to do that nowadays. 20-30 years ago things were different, but now? Even insurgent politics can't generally raise those sort of numbers at constituency level. The mass canvass at Barking & Dagenham in 2010 that saw off the BNP was a co-operative effort between Labour activists from the south-east of England, and other anti-fascist and anti-racist activists from all around the UK.



In fairness to my local Greens they've been regularly door knocking, leafleting and been visibly active in "dogshit politics" for as long as I've been living here. You can't fail to notice their presence and activity. It's won them councillors and will gain them more, plus a good vote in the FE I expect.

Labour are trying to do the same. Less successfully, but have caught on to what's hapenning at street level and are trying to take the Greens on.

It's basic stuff.

The lib Dems were usually very effective at it (when they still had activists). The BNP's moment in the sun came when they cottoned on. The IWCA also knew it's value.

Knock the doors: monthly, weekly, whatver. Speak to people, suss out what the local issues are, act on them and go around picking up dog shit and make sure everyone can see you going round picking up the dogshit.

...and do this week after week, month after month, year after year.

If you've left it till election time you've relinquished any power to shape the mood locally.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 25, 2015)




----------



## chilango (Apr 25, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The problem being that conventional publicity material is more likely to go straight in the recycling bin, than get read. It's a case of the law of diminishing returns - as politics gets shittier, fewer people are willing to pay any attention to flyers and other printed material containing the the party-political gibberings of politicians. The only thing that really still works in the conventional armoury is solid canvassing over a period of time, and even the major parties seldom have the constituency-level manpower to do that nowadays. 20-30 years ago things were different, but now? Even insurgent politics can't generally raise those sort of numbers at constituency level. The mass canvass at Barking & Dagenham in 2010 that saw off the BNP was a co-operative effort between Labour activists from the south-east of England, and other anti-fascist and anti-racist activists from all around the UK.



In fairness to my local Greens they've been regularly door knocking, leafleting and been visibly active in "dogshit politics" for as long as I've been living here. You can't fail to notice their presence and activity. It's won them councillors and will gain them more, plus a good vote in the FE I expect.

Labour are trying to do the same. Less successfully, but have caught on to what's hapenning at street level and are trying to take the Greens on.

It's basic stuff.

The lib Dems were usually very effective at it (when they still had activists). The BNP's moment in the sun came when they cottoned on. The IWCA also knew it's value.

Knock the doors: monthly, weekly, whatver. Speak to people, suss out what the local issues are, act on them and go around picking up dog shit and make sure everyone can see you going round picking up the dogshit.

...and do this week after week, month after month, year after year.

If you've left it till election time you've relinquished any power to shape the mood locally.


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## killer b (Apr 25, 2015)

Finger on the pulse there.


----------



## Brechin Sprout (Apr 25, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> if you think the greens are shit= must be a Labour supporter


I'm guessing you don't really mean that?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2015)

.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 25, 2015)

"_Inside Croydon" _celebrate Cameron's 'brain fade' that occurred on their own turf...



> Was this morning in Croydon the point where David Cameron finally, fully, exposed himself for being the *full of Bullingdon bogusness *that the majority of the country has suspected for a decade? Because *only a 9-carat Old Etonian bullshitter would somehow forget what football team they claim to support. *



The piece goes on to effectively interrogate the BME-friendly claims made by the leader of the nasty party. Good stuff, as ever.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 25, 2015)

Doing the rounds on Twitter today, this from 2012


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## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2015)

Brechin Sprout said:


> I'm guessing you don't really mean that?


no, it was the message I was getting from the post above mine. 'but Labourism' always comes out around election time if you dare to slag any party.


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## brogdale (Apr 25, 2015)

Vote winner.



> Rent rises for 11 million people living in private accommodation will be capped at the rate of inflation if Labour wins the general election on 7 May, Ed Miliband will announce on Sunday.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 25, 2015)

That's going to cause some squeals.


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## brogdale (Apr 25, 2015)

Belushi said:


> That's going to cause some squeals.


 
I suspect it will just mean that there would be no 3 year tenancies?



> ....during new three-year secure tenancies, landlords will be barred from increasing rents in any one year above the level of price rises as recorded in the consumer price index.


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## weepiper (Apr 25, 2015)

I note it just says 'during NEW three-year secure tenancies'. Unless they're going to impose three-year tenancies on all existing landlords it doesn't mean fuck all.


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## gosub (Apr 25, 2015)

weepiper said:


> I note it just says 'during NEW three-year secure tenancies'. Unless they're going to impose three-year tenancies on all existing landlords it doesn't mean fuck all.


Well it does, it means 3 year tenancy won't be offered, not that they are common now open didn't see brogdale said the same


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## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 25, 2015)

I'm wary of any post liked by the borderline vegetable "gosub"


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## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2015)

at last! he rips his shirt asunder to reveal the big hammer and sickle on the t shirt underneath *plays internationale on the comb*


----------



## Favelado (Apr 25, 2015)

Nationalisation of rail network, Blackpool Pleasure Beach and Pot Noodle factory to be announced Monday morning.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 25, 2015)

Miliband said this a year ago. It's not new.


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## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 25, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Vote winner.



May 16th every year announced as National Rent Evaluation Day.  May 15th announced as National Suspiciously High Inflation Day.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 25, 2015)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> May 16th every year announced as National Rent Evaluation Day.  May 15th announced as National Suspiciously High Inflation Day.



Do I perchance detect just the teeniest hit of cynicism?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 26, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Vote winner.



In prosperous areas, what landlord is going to be foolish enough to agree to a 3-year tenancy? Perhaps one that's increased the rent markedly. As for disclosing prior rents, so what? If the prospective tenant insists on trying to pay the former rent, the landlord will tell them to look elsewhere.

And if they try to extend it, look for tenancies to be one day (or month) shorter than the fixed-rent period, with mandatory eviction / renegotiation. And rents will be calculated on one month less than that period rather than the full period. Moving can be expensive, so tenants will be over a barrel.

This is a vote loser for anyone who thinks it through, but few will.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> In prosperous areas, what landlord is going to be foolish enough to agree to a 3-year tenancy? Perhaps one that's increased the rent markedly. As for disclosing prior rents, so what? If the prospective tenant insists on trying to pay the former rent, the landlord will tell them to look elsewhere.
> 
> And if they try to extend it, look for tenancies to be one day (or month) shorter than the fixed-rent period, with mandatory eviction / renegotiation. And rents will be calculated on one month less than that period rather than the full period. Moving can be expensive, so tenants will be over a barrel.
> 
> This is a vote loser for anyone who thinks it through, but few will.


as I have gosub on ignore this is the most stupid post I've read in a while


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## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> In prosperous areas, what landlord is going to be foolish enough to agree to a 3-year tenancy?



I guess they will have to choose between being a landlord and the noose. Eh, maybe, perhaps, hrrrrm


----------



## SE25 (Apr 26, 2015)

I was feeling like voting Labour this time round but I saw a TUSC ad on TV. Who the fuck are they and why are/aren't they useless?


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 26, 2015)

SE25 said:


> I was feeling like voting Labour this time round but I saw a TUSC ad on TV. Who the fuck are they and why are/aren't they useless?



.


----------



## imposs1904 (Apr 26, 2015)




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## redsquirrel (Apr 26, 2015)

SE25 said:


> I was feeling like voting Labour this time round but I saw a TUSC ad on TV. Who the fuck are they and why are/aren't they useless?


Trade Union and Socialist Coalition

There are bunch of threads on here about them, including one about their 2015 campaign.  
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/tusc-election-campaign-2015.333061/


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## killer b (Apr 26, 2015)

Miliband vs Johnson on Marr this morning is interesting viewing. A case study in what a lightweight Johnson is - his mooted coronation post election is far from his Imo.

http://labourlist.org/2015/04/ed-miliband-rattles-boris-johnson-on-the-marr-sofa/


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## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2015)

he gave boris a good mugging off there, didn't know he had it in him.


----------



## killer b (Apr 26, 2015)

Why? Haven't you been paying attention?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 26, 2015)

hell yes


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2015)

I've seen him focused doing heated words, but not ripping the piss- the lynton line for instance.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 26, 2015)

Trouble is that Lynton got Boris elected in London, maybe  his style is effective despite how vulgar and stupid it appears to most of us.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 26, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Trouble is that Lynton got Boris elected in London, maybe  his style is effective despite how vulgar and stupid it appears to most of us.


did it though? I think Ken played as much of a roll in getting Boris elected...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Trouble is that Lynton got Boris elected in London, maybe  his style is effective despite how vulgar and stupid it appears to most of us.


quite close as I recall- not close enough to bother counting 2nd preffs tho


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 26, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> did it though? I think Ken played as much of a roll in getting Boris elected...



The attacks on Ken in the Standard were ridiculous though. Strangely when I looked at a copy of the Standard on the tube last week it didn't seem anywhere near as partisan on the reporting of this election as I'd expect, maybe they're no longer on the team?


----------



## JTG (Apr 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> quite close as I recall- not close enough to bother counting 2nd preffs tho


Boris got 44% of first prefs, Ken got 40%. Ken did better on second prefs but not by enough to win

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_mayoral_election,_2012#Results


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2015)

JTG said:


> Boris got 44% of first prefs, Ken got 40%. Ken did better on second prefs but not by enough to win
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_mayoral_election,_2012#Results



ta. I seem to recall ken turning up like banquos ghost post-election at a meeting too. Trolling for the lol.



Spanky Longhorn said:


> did it though? I think Ken played as much of a roll in getting Boris elected...


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 26, 2015)

Cameron's latest catchphrase 'Stick it where the sun don't shine'! Stupid cunt. What makes my heart beat faster!


----------



## rutabowa (Apr 26, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> The attacks on Ken in the Standard were ridiculous though. Strangely when I looked at a copy of the Standard on the tube last week it didn't seem anywhere near as partisan on the reporting of this election as I'd expect, maybe they're no longer on the team?


yeh I thought this too, thought I was just imagining it... or maybe its just in comparison to how extremely partisan most of the other papers are.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 26, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Cameron's latest catchphrase 'Stick it where the sun don't shine'! Stupid cunt. What makes my heart beat faster!


eh?


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 26, 2015)

brogdale said:


> eh?



He just made a speech where he said what I quoted. It was on the telly.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 26, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> He just made a speech where he said what I quoted. It was on the telly.


Ah, right.

So crude, those hammers fans.


----------



## Santino (Apr 26, 2015)

brogdale said:


> So crude, those hammers fans.


Yeah, typical Brummies.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 26, 2015)

Cameron is a wanker, he's got his sleeves rolled up, he's reaching out and it's all a bit sad, he's a daft cunt. Milliband is a cunt too. Dirty bastards.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 26, 2015)

Boris's comment on Labour's proposal to (weakly) cap rent:
_
"First of all you'd discourage people from getting into the rental market"_

Won't somebody think of the landlords?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 26, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Won't somebody think of the landlords?



Someone has to. You do realise that you have to make it so that people want to rent out property, don't you?


----------



## chilango (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Someone has to. You do realise that you have to make it so that people want to rent out property, don't you?



Why? What'll happen to the houses if they don't?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Someone has to. You do realise that you have to make it so that people want to rent out property, don't you?


thick cunt


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> Yeah, typical Brummies.


How can you just lie there thinking about football when you're getting bonus pointed off the field not 176 miles away?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 26, 2015)

chilango said:


> Why? What'll happen to the houses if they don't?



Please note that I said people; companies are a different matter. If people can't feel that they can safely let out their property then the property will likely be sold to property companies, who will be far worse. You'll also discourage people from taking jobs which might involve long periods abroad like diplomats and military.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Please note that I said people; companies are a different matter. If people can't feel that they can safely let out their property then the property will likely be sold to property companies, who will be far worse. You'll also discourage people from taking jobs which might involve long periods abroad like diplomats and military.


Sometimes i love being alive.


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 26, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Sometimes i love being alive.


Then you wake up.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 26, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Then you wake up.


That's what the booze is for.


----------



## discokermit (Apr 26, 2015)

will no one think of the diplomats?


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 26, 2015)

discokermit said:


> will no one think of the diplomats?



With this ferrero rocher, they are spoiling us.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Please note that I said people; companies are a different matter. If people can't feel that they can safely let out their property then the property will likely be sold to property companies, who will be far worse. You'll also discourage people from taking jobs which might involve long periods abroad like diplomats and military.



Why are property companies worse than buy-to-let landlords (who are, by their very nature, harder to regulate and working to smaller profit margins)?

On the second one, who gives a fuck.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 26, 2015)

caption competition?


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 26, 2015)

"Labour leader triggers Tory cardiac arrest using Jedi mind trick"


----------



## chilango (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Please note that I said people; companies are a different matter. If people can't feel that they can safely let out their property then the property will likely be sold to property companies, who will be far worse. You'll also discourage people from taking jobs which might involve long periods abroad like diplomats and military.



If people feel "they can't safely let out their property" then they should fucking live in it.


----------



## killer b (Apr 26, 2015)

Jesus.


----------



## Zabo (Apr 26, 2015)

"Look at this will you! It's that snivelling shit Gideon's economic plan for the next five years. It's going to cost me and my rich mates the election. Have a good look because I'm now going to wipe my arse with it!"


----------



## Zabo (Apr 26, 2015)

"You'll always be a wanker if you hold your wrist like this!"


----------



## brogdale (Apr 26, 2015)

Nailed it.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 26, 2015)

chilango said:


> If people feel "they can't safely let out their property" then they should fucking live in it.



Maybe they're going abroad for a year or three? Like diplomats, the military, people sent on extended assignments, etc.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Maybe they're going abroad for a year or three? Like diplomats, the military, people sent on extended assignments, etc.



If you are out of a country for three years then you don't need own a house in that country, do you?

BTW you could just change your tagline to 'cunt'


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 26, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> caption competition?



"You want a knuckle sandwich you sexually-incontinent blond wanker?"


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 26, 2015)

J Ed said:


> If you are out of a country for three years then you don't need own a house in that country, do you?
> 
> BTW you could just change your tagline to 'cunt'



You could always ask Quartz whether he's a _rentier_. The answer might be informative.


----------



## Santino (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Maybe they're going abroad for a year or three? Like diplomats, the military, people sent on extended assignments, etc.


And why should such people need to increase rents above inflation? That's all that's being proposed after all.


----------



## chilango (Apr 26, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Maybe they're going abroad for a year or three? Like diplomats, the military, people sent on extended assignments, etc.



Having visited, stayed with, worked with, even been myself, these kinds of people during my own "extended assignments" I can assure you that the issue of rent caps ain't gonna bankrupt them whilst they're slumming it in their subsidised (or completely paid for) overseas digs.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 26, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> caption competition?



"Ok Boris, another go... Stone, paper, scissors."


----------



## magneze (Apr 26, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> caption competition?


If you pull really hard then the toof will jusht come out.


----------



## rekil (Apr 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> And why should such people need to increase rents above inflation? That's all that's being proposed after all.


Because they're wealth creators. Hth.


----------



## teqniq (Apr 26, 2015)

"No, listen. Mine's got twin Zuchinni carbs and yours is just wet greens".


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Apr 27, 2015)

I just want to place on record that I think Boris Johnson will be a disaster as Tory leader. A massive mistake. I hope the Tories panic after the election and get him installed as leader asap.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Apr 27, 2015)

King Biscuit Time said:


> I just want to place on record that I think Boris Johnson will be a disaster as Tory leader. A massive mistake. I hope the Tories panic after the election and get him installed as leader asap.


I wouldn't be surprised if they appoint May as a counterfoil to Sturgeon who is sure to be still around in 2020.


----------



## killer b (Apr 27, 2015)

I think they'll be too sensible to have him as leader - it's just a media thing that has a weird amount of traction (even here) - Johnson as a shoe in, Miliband as a wet blanket, Cameron as a natural statesman. None of them stand up to any scrutiny.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 27, 2015)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they appoint May as a counterfoil to Sturgeon who is sure to be still around in 2020.


I'd agree with that, but we must be aware of the dark forces at play within the party atm...clearly May was set-up by Crosby to come out with that (laughable) 'abdication' shite. These things are not done without reason.


----------



## mack (Apr 27, 2015)




----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 27, 2015)

Some scrutiny of the letter signed by 5000 small businesses that Cameron/Osborne were crowing about:

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2015/...tter-includes-people-who-dont-own-a-business/

From other research it seems that this was basically an online petition on the conservative site, calling for signatories to a letter authored by CCHQ which has now been regurgitated in the press as a 'letter of support from small businesses' (small businesses including West Ham for example, signed by Karen Brady). 

Wish I'd got wind of this, Reginald Christfister of Spunking Cock PLC could have added their name, it'd have probably got through given their incompetence at these sort of things.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 27, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Some scrutiny of the letter signed by 5000 small businesses that Cameron/Osborne were crowing about:
> 
> http://politicalscrapbook.net/2015/...tter-includes-people-who-dont-own-a-business/
> 
> ...


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> (small businesses including West Ham for example, signed by Karen Brady).


well, since Cameron announced his support....


Of course small businesses are measured by number of employee's, rather than turnover or anything, so you do get some odds results, like major bond dealers technically being 'small businesses'


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 27, 2015)

belboid said:


> well, since Cameron announced his support....
> 
> 
> Of course small businesses are measured by number of employee's, rather than turnover or anything, so you do get some odds results, like major bond dealers technically being 'small businesses'


Indeed. Some of them are even worker-owned cooperatives!


----------



## killer b (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm curious about these letters: from our POV they appear to be transparently desperate damp squibs - is anyone taken in, or are the tories all resting their faces in their hands this morning?


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2015)

killer b said:


> I'm curious about these letters: from our POV they appear to be transparently desperate damp squibs - is anyone taken in, or are the tories all resting their faces in their hands this morning?


looks like spirituial influence for bankers, to me


----------



## killer b (Apr 27, 2015)

That's an idea - if all else fails, start a campaign to get neoliberalism recognised as a religion, then petition to boot them out.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 27, 2015)

killer b said:


> I think they'll be too sensible to have him as leader - it's just a media thing that has a weird amount of traction (even here) - Johnson as a shoe in, Miliband as a wet blanket, Cameron as a natural statesman. None of them stand up to any scrutiny.



Johnson is very popular with the rural membership, mostly because they believe the myths about him being a bluff no-nonsense chap. Those of us who've actually been exposed to him are aware just what a typical politician he is, but Boris can still sell the shit to the shires - look at any Conservative conference he's attended for proof (plus the fact that the leadership hate him being there, because of him stealing their thunder).
It's not about whether the meme or image stands up to scrutiny, it's whether people can be convinced to believe it. Hopefully, enough Tories (including MPs) believe it that they'll elect him leader and give the party a pineapple-shaped suppository.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 27, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Some scrutiny of the letter signed by 5000 small businesses that Cameron/Osborne were crowing about:
> 
> http://politicalscrapbook.net/2015/...tter-includes-people-who-dont-own-a-business/
> 
> ...



You know Reg? Excellent chap! Was in the Bullingdon, if I recall correctly. Used to like to stick bread rolls up the waiters' arses.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 27, 2015)

...and that's Sky


----------



## marty21 (Apr 27, 2015)

Cameron does seem a bit unenthusiastic about it all, Red Ed seems pretty enthused tbh, the one who seems to be doing the best is Nicola Sturgeon, she is having a dream campaign, and I don't see a lot of the coverage down here - but all the leaders are talking about her and the SNP


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 27, 2015)

Democratic Unionist election candidate faces police investigation after allegedly making homophobic comments to lesbian couple at the weekend

Couldn't happen to a nicer homophobe


> Wells last week caused a furore when he told a debate in Downpatrick that child abuse was more rife among gay couples. “You don’t bring a child up in a homosexual relationship. That a child is far more likely to be abused and neglected,” Wells said, before he was shouted down by members of the audience.


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2015)

marty21 said:


> Cameron does seem a bit unenthusiastic about it all, Red Ed seems pretty enthused tbh, the one who seems to be doing the best is Nicola Sturgeon, she is having a dream campaign, and I don't see a lot of the coverage down here - but all the leaders are talking about her and the SNP


there partly talking aobut her because they (the tories and their friends) think it's their best way to be a Supercharged Red Ed.  Ed is still talking about her because...well, because he hasn't worked out how to change the channel yet.


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2015)

Oh yes, almost forgot about the DUP telling Cameron to shut up about the SNP, and that he doesn't understand the constitution or the Union.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...is-losing-our-support-over-scotland-warns-dup


----------



## brogdale (Apr 27, 2015)

belboid said:


> Oh yes, almost forgot about the DUP telling Cameron to shut up about the SNP, and that he doesn't understand the constitution or the Union.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...is-losing-our-support-over-scotland-warns-dup


he doesn't need to..he's pumped


----------



## rioted (Apr 27, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> whereas you only have to go back to this year to see the Greens being mendacious wankers in Brighton


Maybe. How far back do you think you'd have to go before you found mendacious wankers in the Labour Party? But you're still prepared to vote for the austerity championing fuckers. I'm no Green but am finding the hypocrisy of Labour supporters more than a little amusing.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

Have we had any footballers coming out for anyone yet?


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Have we had any footballers coming out for anyone yet?


only Sol (oh, and Karl Henry - another tory)


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 27, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Have we had any footballers coming out for anyone yet?


Karl Henry for the Tories. https://twitter.com/karlhenry08 

and Stan Collymore for Labour http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/karl-henry-tells-stan-collymore-5417899


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

Ta - so a clumsy thug and...well... don't really know what to call sol - backing the tories.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 27, 2015)

did any footballers join myleene klass and all the other whining megarich people in decrying milibands mansion tax ideas


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

Wow KH seems a proper involve ideological tory too.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 27, 2015)

Collymore's wrong about the 'surprised at your attitude considering where you're from' line, though. Rich people who come from poor backgrounds and consider themselves 'self-made' often have those attitudes - just try harder, poor people, like I did.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 27, 2015)

Can't imagine support from footballers does the Tories much good, just shores up a lot of existing prejudices people have against them.


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> did any footballers join myleene klass and all the other whining megarich people in decrying milibands mansion tax ideas


it's made Sol furious.  Especially as his main concern in life is overcoming inequality.

Mmmm....


----------



## marty21 (Apr 27, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Ta - so a clumsy thug and...well... don't really know what to call sol - backing the tories.


 Interview in the guardian today, he owns a £25m house, plus a few other homes, is married to an heiress to a fortune and he was complaining about the mansion tax


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

marty21 said:


> Interview in the guardian today, he owns a £25m house, plus a few other homes, is married to an heiress to a fortune and he was complaining about the mansion tax


He's a very _complex _man marty.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 27, 2015)

Rich tory sporties always seem to say exactly the same thing - that they think people need to do things for themselves, and that Labour = people wanting stuff for free. Ian Botham came out with exactly the same thing in the 80s.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Rich tory sporties always seem to say exactly the same thing - that they think people need to do things for themselves, and that Labour = people wanting stuff for free. Ian Botham came out with exactly the same thing in the 80s.


Careful...


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Rich tory sporties always seem to say exactly the same thing - that they think people need to do things for themselves, and that Labour = people wanting stuff for free. Ian Botham came out with exactly the same thing in the 80s.


May be an interesting difference there with those born into money and those not. And botham certainly wasn't.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 27, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Careful...


Actually, there is one exception - Coe. He's more of the _noblesse oblige_ persuasion.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 27, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> May be an interesting difference there with those born into money and those not. And botham certainly wasn't.


I was just thinking the same thing re the Coe difference.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Actually, there is one exception - Coe. He's more of the _noblesse oblige_ persuasion.


Compare with steve cram who always used to call himself an old-labour supporter. I think he may have got caught up in the blair thing though.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 27, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Actually, there is one exception - Coe. He's more of the _noblesse oblige_ persuasion.


 I always liked it when Ovett beat Coe


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

marty21 said:


> I always liked it when Ovett beat Coe


I think the whole country did! Naked class war over 800m, british middle distance running,  best in the world, jumpers for...er...finishing lines.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 27, 2015)

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/stake...blers-bet-15-000-on-election-result-1-7222183



> Election stakes are high in Sheffield Hallam and gamblers are aiming to cash in – with £15,000 of bets taken at just one bookmakers.
> One bet of £5,000 is backing Nick Clegg to retain the Parliamentary seat for the Liberal Democrats, while another £3,000 has been placed on Labour candidate Oliver Coppard to become MP following the general election on Thursday, May 7.
> Already £15,000 has been placed on the Hallam result through the country’s biggest independent bookmaker, Betfred – which it says is the most of any individual constituency in the country.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm sure there's a 20 grand bet been put on in the watford seat.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 27, 2015)

I suppose putting five grand on clegg to win might be the only way to be happy with the result if he won.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 27, 2015)

thing is, evil lingers. Only the good fade early. See: thatcher, pinochet, klause barbie.

on that logic he might retain his seat


----------



## imposs1904 (Apr 27, 2015)

SNP Landslide according to Grindr users in Edinburgh

I thought the Spunking Cock Party might have been in with a chance.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 27, 2015)

Ashcroft poll has Cons up 6%:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#2015
Bit of a pattern over the last 10 days, just as many having Lab in the lead, but the polls showing Con leads have a bigger % lead.  The Ashcroft one has a smaller sample than some, but Lab will be worried.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 27, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> You know Reg? Excellent chap! Was in the Bullingdon, if I recall correctly. Used to like to stick bread rolls up the waiters' arses.



They thought that they knew Reg...turns out that they hadn't done their homework...twunts.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...nesses-cameron#block-553e643fe4b00d721cc4fc26


----------



## miktheword (Apr 27, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Ashcroft poll has Cons up 6%:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#2015
> Bit of a pattern over the last 10 days, just as many having Lab in the lead, but the polls showing Con leads have a bigger % lead.  The Ashcroft one has a smaller sample than some, but Lab will be worried.





Ashcroft also has Tories massively beating Lab in Scotland.

Sample size of over 2,000 have 1% Labour leads (I read, can't quote) But phone polling showing Tory leads to On-line labour ones seems a more consistent pattern. Ashcroft still has swings to labour in the marginal as does  ICM today , Labour ahead by 4% in battleground seats (small sub sample again) 

also a comment on UKPR,  ICM unweighted – just 3 voters between Lab and Con (22%-21%). It was only reallocation of DK and likelihood to vote that put Con 3% ahead.  Also, having a high weighting to who you voted for in 2010 will underscore Labour and overstate Tory, Lib Dem.


----------



## chilango (Apr 27, 2015)

My map is coming along well. All Green and Red though. Walking the long way around to places to try and get more data now.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 27, 2015)

My daily walk has lately been spoiled by a row of tory billboards along an estate hedge blocking the view of the treetrunks behind them. Some thoughtful soul has removed them though, and stored them face down on the path  .


----------



## killer b (Apr 27, 2015)

hm. I think the tory party have broken the DPA - this is their disclaimer at the bottom of their small business letter.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 27, 2015)

off her face






http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...dependent-manifesto_n_7152856.html?1430150232


----------



## mk12 (Apr 27, 2015)

I like her stance on animal cruelty.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Apr 27, 2015)

not-bono-ever said:


> off her face
> 
> 
> 
> ...








Say what you like, no ambiguity on the manifesto commitments there


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 27, 2015)

She's just wanting to take NI forward to the 1950s, for some constituents this will be boldly progressive and they'll want no part of it.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 27, 2015)

she should be voted in, it'd be proper entertainment


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 28, 2015)

I like the fact that she doesn't just want the death penalty for ordinary murderers but *also* terrorist murderers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2015)

cctv in slaughterhouses? why, so she can sell the gore vids on the internet?

its not like anyones fucking the animals or anything, its just grim dirty and horrible.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

actually I do agree with that - animal rights activists have done undercover filming and caught some proper abusive behaviour when they thought no-one was looking.  If it helps to stop animals getting treated like that, why not?


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

You're in favour of workers being monitored every minute of their working day?


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> You're in favour of workers being monitored every minute of their working day?


in general? No.  When it comes to protecting animals from abuse, it's a necessary evil.


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

I'd imagine an adequate inspection regime would suffice wouldn't it?


----------



## Santino (Apr 28, 2015)

I got a leaflet telling me to vote for 'none of the above'.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> in general? No.  When it comes to protecting animals from abuse, it's a necessary evil.


might also apply for old folks homes - but obviously people should be properly paid, and any penalty fines etc should be levied at the bosses not solely at the workers.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> cctv in slaughterhouses? why, so she can sell the gore vids on the internet?



Every woman should have an appropriate visual aid for banjo-strumming. Perhaps watching cows getting the bolt is what sets her nethers a-quivering?


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> I'd imagine an adequate inspection regime would suffice wouldn't it?


How do you define "adequate" - it's difficult for even "random" inspections to see what really goes on behind closed doors when no-one is watching.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> actually I do agree with that - animal rights activists have done undercover filming and caught some proper abusive behaviour when they thought no-one was looking.  If it helps to stop animals getting treated like that, why not?



It's already done in many slaughterhouses. Has been done since at least the late '80s. All this will do is make compulsory something that many abattoirs have in place.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's already done in many slaughterhouses. Has been done since at least the late '80s. All this will do is make compulsory something that many abattoirs have in place.


OK - good, if it stops animal abuse


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> OK - good, if it stops animal abuse


Nothing will *stop* abuse by a determined person, but it *does* (alongside decent training) help minimise it.


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

What about all the workers who aren't determined abusers? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear?


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nothing will *stop* abuse by a determined person, but it *does* (alongside decent training) help minimise it.


ok - minimise it/stop it in so far as it is possible - still worthwhile.  Same would apply to elder-abuse.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> What about all the workers who aren't determined abusers? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear?


it would only be one part of the strategy - it would need to be accompanied by a thorough critique of industrial farming methods/ corporate profiteering from social/nursing "care" etc.


----------



## andysays (Apr 28, 2015)

"won't somebody please think of the animals"...


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> ok - minimise it/stop it in so far as it is possible - still worthwhile.  Same would apply to elder-abuse.


 

School teachers, doctors, taxi drivers, police officers, nurses, managers, cooks, sports coaches...?

Cheers - Louis (welcome to the panopticon) MacNeice


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> School teachers, doctors, taxi drivers, police officers, nurses, managers, cooks, sports coaches...?
> 
> Cheers - Louis (welcome to the panopticon) MacNeice


So hidden cruelty and abuse of animals/elderly etc is a price worth paying?


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

I’d think the beef cow or elder has more to fear from neglect and cruelty as part of a workplace culture rather than from individual psychopaths – there are many controls and measures that can be put in place to deal with such cultures before we get to the point of needing to film the workers.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> might also apply for old folks homes - but obviously people should be properly paid, and any penalty fines etc should be levied at the bosses not solely at the workers.


You have quite a top-down authoritarian streak, don't you?


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

it's the _good_ kind of fascism.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> it's the _good_ kind of fascism.


The film The Lives of Others wasn't just about the past, it seems. It was also about the future here. We must all be monitored in all we do by the state in case we do something wrong. By the good, benevolent state, of course, like it was in the Democratic Republic of Germany.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> ok - minimise it/stop it in so far as it is possible - still worthwhile.  Same would apply to elder-abuse.



What about cruelty to animals and elder abuse in the home? I reckon we could stop that by filming everyone all the time where they live. And we could sell the footage to gogglebox as well to recoup costs.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> So hidden cruelty and abuse of animals/elderly etc is a price worth paying?


 
So the only way to minimise abuse is through electronic surveillance?

Asking loaded questions is fun isn't it...not particularly useful but fun.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

These diverting exchanges are always _so_ illuminating, A8.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

I never said it was the only way to minimise abuse - in fact I specifically said the opposite.  But evidence of abuse has been brought to light by undercover filming.  As long as the footage was retained by the regulator and not accessible to company management, what would the workers have to fear?


----------



## Santino (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> what would the workers have to fear?


 Fear itself?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> I never said it was the only way to minimise abuse - in fact I specifically said the opposite.  But evidence of abuse has been brought to light by undercover filming.  As long as the footage was retained by the regulator and not accessible to company management, what would the workers have to fear?


You can't be this naive, surely?


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

we have nothing to fear about the collection, retention and monitoring of massive amounts of personal data by the state, clearly.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 28, 2015)

What the fuck?  I leave this thread for a couple of hours and when I get back we're talking about compulsory surveillance, monitored by the State, for tens (nay hundreds) of thousands of workers?

FUCK OFF.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 28, 2015)

Santino said:


> Fear itself?



I'm sure the large numbers of retail workers subject to continuous cctv coverage are quaking in fear, I just have to go into my local Boots to see all the staff refraining from picking their noses.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> we have nothing to fear about the collection, retention and monitoring of massive amounts of personal data by the state, clearly.


There's a vast difference between detailed records of people's identity/communications/history and the retention of CCTV footage of slaughter procedures.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> There's a vast difference between detailed records of people's identity/communications/history and the retention of CCTV footage of slaughter procedures.



And nursing homes.  And care homes.  And nurseries.  And schools, why not.  Hospitals, sure.  And factories.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> And nursing homes.  And care homes.  And nurseries.  And schools, why not.  Hospitals, sure.  And factories.


tens/hundred of thousands of workers are already covered by CCTV - and in some respects for their own safety - train guards, bar staff, bank tellers, shop workers....  Are you saying this should be stopped?


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

in most cases, absolutely.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> tens/hundred of thousands of workers are already covered by CCTV - and in some respects for their own safety - train guards, bar staff, bank tellers, shop workers....  Are you saying this should be stopped?


We're about the most spied-on country in the world in this respect. Yes, I'd love to get rid of a great deal of it.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> in most cases, absolutely.


assaults on workers are already high even with CCTV, but sometimes the perpetrators get caught and punished.   Obviously CCTV isn't the sole answer to keeping people safe.  But do we really want to remove even this basic protection?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> *assaults on workers are already high even with CCTV*, but sometimes the perpetrators get caught and punished.   Obviously CCTV isn't the sole answer to keeping people safe.  But *do we really want to remove even this basic protection*?


 
Can you see what you did there?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 28, 2015)

Has this been done yet?


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> assaults on workers are already high even with CCTV, but sometimes the perpetrators get caught and punished.   Obviously CCTV isn't the sole answer to keeping people safe.  But do we really want to remove even this basic protection?


in most cases CCTV isn't there for protection, it's there to safeguard tills.  That is where it is pointed in most bars, it does sod all for workers' safety.  There are exceptions, and I'm ambivalent about it in abattoirs, but dont sing its praises up, its just the least shit shit solution even when it is useful.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Can you see what you did there?
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


As I said, they're not *sufficient" protection - but without CCTV can we be certain that the level of assaults wouldn't be higher still??


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

belboid said:


> in most cases CCTV isn't there for protection, it's there to safeguard tills.  That is where it is pointed in most bars, it does sod all for workers' safety.  There are exceptions, and I'm ambivalent about it in abattoirs, but dont sing its praises up, its just the least shit shit solution even when it is useful.


I'm not especially keen on CCTV - but if animal abuse has been addressed because some animal rights activists have secretly filmed what's going on, then the prospect of people accessing footage on a routine basis seems to put pressure on the employer and workers not to be doing cruel shit when they think no-one's looking.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

Something needs to be done.

This is something.

Therefore this needs to be done. 

_Politician logic_


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> assaults on workers are already high even with CCTV, but sometimes the perpetrators get caught and punished.   Obviously CCTV isn't the sole answer to keeping people safe.  But do we really want to remove even this basic protection?


In most cases, CCTV for safety purposes has replaced someone's job. I'd rather see more bus conductors in work than drivers working alone with CCTV backup and the like. Don't push cost-cutting as a necessary evil.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> In most cases, CCTV for safety purposes has replaced someone's job. I'd rather see more bus conductors in work than drivers working alone with CCTV backup and the like. Don't push cost-cutting as a necessary evil.


My local council has suggested ending all CCTV as a *cost cutting measure* - is this one cut we should celebrate?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> My local council has suggested ending all CCTV as a *cost cutting measure* - is this one cut we should celebrate?


Yes. There was a time, not very long ago at all, when we all walked the streets without being filmed. I for one would like to go back to that time.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> _Politician logic_



There is a problem.  

In itself this particular reform might help, but it won't cure the problem.

Let's not bother

_Ultra-left logic_


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> There is a problem.
> 
> In itself this particular reform might help, but it won't cure the problem.
> 
> ...



_freedom doesn't matter_

Your political ideology.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

Freedom to abuse animals?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> Freedom to abuse animals?


and again,

_politician logic_


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> As I said, they're not *sufficient" protection - but without CCTV can we be certain that the level of assaults wouldn't be higher still??


 
CCTV empowers the employer, the land owner and the state (i.e. those who own and control the technology); they do the looking, they keep the records and they are known to do so by the rest of us.

What CCTV also does is excuse those same employers, land owners and state bodies from engaging with other protective measures; after all they are doing something valuable already.

Indeed all those employers, landowners and state officials could call on you in their defence; 'look' they could say 'even sensible Labour Party people like articul8 can see what a good job we're doing!'

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> Freedom to abuse animals?


Oh come on, that's just pathetic.



Louis MacNeice said:


> Indeed all those employers, landowners and state officials could call on you in their defence; 'look' they could say 'even sensible Labour Party people like articul8 can see what a good job we're doing!'


Like they can call on him and Ed to defend zero hour contracts. 

Sad thing is that in three-four years time I can easily see a8 defending Labour's attacks on those on benefits.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Oh come on, that's just pathetic.


It's entirely consistent politician logic.


Animals are being abused.

This is a measure aimed at reducing animal abuse.

Therefore, if you oppose this measure, you are in favour of animals being abused.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> What CCTV also does is excuse those same employers, land owners and state bodies from engaging with other protective measures; after all they are doing something valuable already.


I don't see how this follows.  I'm clear that the biggest root cause of animal abuse in food production is systematic, a result of industrial scale intensive farming.  That needs tackling as a priority.  But if CCTV can offer a measure of transparency and accountability - so that producers and workers aren't protected from commiting needless acts of suffering behind the walled gates of the unit, this seems to be a good thing.


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's entirely consistent politician logic.
> 
> Animals are being abused.
> 
> ...


that's nothing like what he said. but wtf, lets all play attack the point because of who made it yet again, it's the best thing about the whole board!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

One of the ironies here is that a8 fancies himself as a philosophy student.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Oh come on, that's just pathetic.
> 
> Like they can call on him and Ed to defend zero hour contracts.
> 
> Sad thing is that in three-four years time I can easily see a8 defending Labour's attacks on those on benefits.


Now _that's_ pathetic - I am totally opposed to exploitation of workers on zero hours contracts, and have actively campaigned against them.  To sugget I "defend" them is a downright lie


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

belboid said:


> that's nothing like what he said. but wtf, lets all play attack the point because of who made it yet again, it's the best thing about the whole board!


Yes it is. I oppose a measure because it impinges on freedom, and he says that this implies that I support freedom to abuse animals. The logic does not follow.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> One of the ironies here is that a8 fancies himself as a philosophy student.


I know enough to understand that the argument that individual freedom is sacrosanct is a classically liberal position


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes it is. I oppose a measure because it impinges on freedom, and he says that this implies that I support freedom to abuse animals. The logic does not follow.


Freedom.  Infinite freedom.  Except to do something I don't agree with....


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> I know enough to understand that the argument that individual freedom is sacrosanct is a classically liberal position


Nobody is arguing that, though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2015)

^^^this is what happens when you employ fuck haired advertising creatives who lack even a basic reading background and grasp of nuance


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> Freedom.  Infinite freedom.  Except to do something I don't agree with....


And again. Unless I support your measure, I'm supporting some idea of infinite freedom. Extending spy cameras is the only way to address the issue. Either you spy or people can do whatever they want.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Nobody is arguing that, though.


Well I didn't I argue that "freedom doesn't matter"


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> Well I didn't I argue that "freedom doesn't matter"


That was more of a longer-scale thing. You consistently argue on here for authoritarian top-down measures.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That was more of a longer-scale thing. You consistently argue on here for authoritarian top-down measures.


like what?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> like what?


Like the 
*Charlie Hebdo massacre and the West's response*

thread

From around page 37 onwards. 

Sorry, I'm crap at linking to threads, but it's a very good example.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

Hmm - if you accept that "freedom" is not an absolute good, then it follows there are certain instances in which the common good depends on limiting the freedom of the individual, no?  Then the question is who has the authority to introduce and police those limits...?


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes it is. I oppose a measure because it impinges on freedom, and he says that this implies that I support freedom to abuse animals. The logic does not follow.


He did no such thing.  he pointed out that 'freedom' encompasses all sorts of things that are, generally, unsupported, thus pointing out the central contradiction of your post. 

And so, yet another thread becomes (in essence) all about a8 being a shit, because a8 is in the labour party.  A complete and utter waste of time, and liable to make people, except the few partaking, to go 'sod this'


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

belboid said:


> And so, yet another thread becomes (in essence) all about a8 being a shit, because a8 is in the labour party.


this isn't true. Although this





> A complete and utter waste of time, and liable to make people, except the few partaking, to go 'sod this'


probably is.


----------



## Flanflinger (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> Freedom to abuse animals?




Keith Harris has just died.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 28, 2015)

belboid said:


> And so, yet another thread becomes (in essence) all about a8 being a shit, because a8 is in the labour party.  A complete and utter waste of time, and liable to make people, except the few partaking, to go 'sod this'


 
Apologies I did use his party affiliation as a chance to have a cheap shot.

However, my main point is that CCTV is a potentially dangerous, necessarily partial and individualising solution (it makes us be our own police) to problems that are socially produced and to which we should be looking for similarly social answers.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Apologies I did use his party affiliation as a chance to have a cheap shot.
> 
> However, my main point is that CCTV is a potentially dangerous, necessarily partial and individualising solution (it makes us be our own police) to problems that are socially produced and to which we should be looking for similarly social answers.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


This is well put. I'll desist as well. fwiw I don't have a go at a8 because he's in the Labour Party, but because I find his ideas mostly horrifying.


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

I have many friends in the labour party who don't advocate stasi-lite policies.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I find his ideas mostly horrifying.


 you have lived a very sheltered life in that case...


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> I have many friends in the labour party who don't advocate stasi-lite policies.


i would say I'm a civil libertarian compared to many - but no so much when it comes to animal cruelty and beating up the elderly


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2015)

I really dont think that having CCTV cameras in abattoirs amounts to being stasi-lite. Nor that the majority of his left reformist idea's do so either.  That's just a cheap shot.  He's just a bog standard labourite, espousing bog standard left labour views.


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Apologies I did use his party affiliation as a chance to have a cheap shot.
> 
> However, my main point is that CCTV is a potentially dangerous, necessarily partial and individualising solution (it makes us be our own police) to problems that are socially produced and to which we should be looking for similarly social answers.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


I largely agree - tho to some extent, we _should _be our own police.  Better than the bosses or the actual police doing it. Is it 'the' answer?  no, of course not.  might it ever bed of any use?  Well, yes, in certain clearly defined and limited circumstances.  Including, maybe, even abattoirs. I'm not wholly convinced, but it's hardly the first step to fascism.


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

I thought you were concerned this was driving people away from the thread?


----------



## marty21 (Apr 28, 2015)

A lot of people at work do the polling station/count thing - 16 hours at a polling station (from about 6am-10pm) for £245, but you do get a day off as well so works out as not a bad touch. I've never bothered doing it, one work-mate is a presiding officer this time, you get paid more (maybe £400 for the day) but he is having a nightmare at the moment as one of the polling clerks assigned to him is in his words ,

 'a big fucking wanker, it would be ok if he was a big fucking wanker on Wednesday and Friday but I know he's going to big a big fucking wanker on Thursday as well' 

a nice end to the story though, he just got assigned to another polling station, so the big fucking wanker is now someone else's problem


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2015)

245 notes! No wonder that bald bloke is at every fucking count, he must be topping up his pension!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 28, 2015)

Yeah.. I'd take the day off work for that. Especially the polling station lark. Bit of people watching and sipping coffee all day. Piece of piss.

I've DJ'd six hour sets for less money per hour.


----------



## cantsin (Apr 28, 2015)

anyone see Adam Clifford repping Class War on BBC Daily Politics ? Ridiculously laid back, dressed up to the nines, talked calm sense ( abolish pub schools / general class war ) , confused Stanley 'fuckwit' Johnson with his drag get up, all round fabulousness ...STRONG


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> 245 notes! No wonder that bald bloke is at every fucking count, he must be topping up his pension!


It's a bit of a perk for underpaid council workers, though, too, isn't it.


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> I thought you were concerned this was driving people away from the thread?


curse you and your faultless logic!


----------



## marty21 (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's a bit of a perk for underpaid council workers, though, too, isn't it.


 yep, loads of people do it, I always forget to apply and only remember when everyone starts talking about what polling station they are at.

One workmate did the Polling station and the count, she was up for nearly 24 hours due to recounts


----------



## articul8 (Apr 28, 2015)

belboid said:


> curse you and your faultless logic!


anyway surely we can all agree that of all the "demands" on that bizarre leaflet, CCTV in slaughterhouses wasn't the most objectionable?


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 28, 2015)

I imagine doing the polling station in the locals, particularly round my way where about 15% come out, is a pretty easy task.  It's usually people I know from local voluntary stuff I'm involved with doing it.


----------



## JimW (Apr 28, 2015)

cantsin said:


> anyone see Adam Clifford repping Class War on BBC Daily Politics ? Ridiculously laid back, dressed up to the nines, talked calm sense ( abolish pub schools / general class war ) , confused Stanley 'fuckwit' Johnson with his drag get up, all round fabulousness ...STRONG


Cheers for the tip, was out but found the clip posted on the BBC website. he does OK: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32497600


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You have quite a top-down authoritarian streak, don't you?



Like I keep on saying (and he keeps denying), he's a Fabian.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 28, 2015)

articul8 said:


> There's a vast difference between detailed records of people's identity/communications/history and the retention of CCTV footage of slaughter procedures.



Not so much as you might assume. Intelligence is/should be about gathering data from disparate sources in order to build an informed picture of that person. CCTV footage from work would be an additional input to work with.


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Has this been done yet?



Apparently he was there to record an interview for brand's youtube show the trews. Good move if he's played it right - we'll find out tonight.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 28, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> One of the ironies here is that a8 fancies himself as a philosophy student.



Philosophy graduate, surely?


----------



## andysays (Apr 28, 2015)

belboid said:


> He did no such thing.  he pointed out that 'freedom' encompasses all sorts of things that are, generally, unsupported, thus pointing out the central contradiction of your post.
> 
> And so, yet another thread becomes (in essence) all about a8 being a shit, because a8 is in the labour party.  A complete and utter waste of time, and liable to make people, except the few partaking, to go 'sod this'



It's not *just* because he's in the Labour party, it's also because he unfailingly comes out with the most nonsensical, serving of the status quo and/or reactionary shit which even a child of 12 could see through.

TBH, I'd rather everyone just ignored his nonsense rather than allow him to derail practically every thread he ever posts on, but unfortunately I doubt that will ever happen.


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

Were done now aren't we?


----------



## JimW (Apr 28, 2015)

See we had a manifesto for education from the NUT along with Green, Labour and Tory leaflets delivered today. Flicked through and looked reasonable but must admit too lazy to read.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 28, 2015)

the telegraph's tactical voting tool was tested today 

http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-recurring-theme/


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> Apparently he was there to record an interview for brand's youtube show the trews. Good move if he's played it right - we'll find out tonight.



According to the guardian "Brand is expected to offer his backing for Labour"

I await the return of the thread on Brand with interest so his fans can explain where the don't vote/revolution from below strategy he's been selling books on is now.

As for Miliband the clip on the guardian website has him claiming that a labour government can bring transnational capital to heel and make them pay tax in the UK.

Hard to work out who is most delusional or opportunistic.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 28, 2015)

If he does endorse labour, or anything close to it, I can't see it being a positive (for either him or labour).  already heard Cameron ranting on about it, though he sounded an even bigger knob doing that.


----------



## Yata (Apr 28, 2015)

Trailer  why not just release the whole thing unedited straight away?


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

Wilf said:


> If he does endorse labour, or anything close to it, I can't see it being a positive (for either him or labour).  already heard Cameron ranting on about it, though he sounded an even bigger knob doing that.


He won't endorse Labour, not a chance. 

Miliband talking about it here - looks like he's happy with it anyway...: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32492591


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 28, 2015)

Dunno - i think the brand thing could work well for milliband. Cameron huffing and puffing makes him look arrogant and stuck up (no-really!) - whilst Ed M can claim he is actually engaging with a wider electorate. Also - they only have to point out that Cameron hangs out with the likes of Katie Hopkins.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 28, 2015)

killer b said:


> Apparently he was there to record an interview for brand's youtube show the trews. Good move if he's played it right - we'll find out tonight.


Yeah, I agree.

 I can't see Brand "endorsing" Labour but it's got Miliband and Labour at the top of the news and with Cameron's no show at the debates can be used to show that Miliband will "talk to anyone", unlike Cameron. 

It obviously won't play well with certain people, but those are going to be the people that would never vote Labour anyway.


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2015)

Everyone is going to watch it either way aren't they? The clip they've released looks to me like he took the right approach - reckon it's not going to do him any harm at all.


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 29, 2015)

killer b said:


> Everyone is going to watch it either way aren't they? The clip they've released looks to me like he took the right approach - reckon it's not going to do him any harm at all.



mmm i guess it wouldn't work if he just tried to ape Brand but that clip doesn't inspire confidence. we'll see.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 29, 2015)

Dunked in shit dodges an encounter with Lisa...what a colossal fucking coward.



> Voters from Iain Duncan Smith’s constituency last night called for him to be sanctioned – with his MP’s salary suspended – for failing to show up at his local hustings.
> 
> Candidates from six other parties – Labour, Green, Lib Dem, Class War, TUSC and UKIP – managed to make the event at Woodford Memorial Hall. But the sitting MP failed to show up in his constituency of Chingford and Woodford Green in north London.
> 
> Organisers said he had been “called away to the north-west of the country” after a “late change to his schedule”.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 29, 2015)

killer b said:


> Everyone is going to watch it either way aren't they? .


No. I've no intention of watching it. My guess is that the majority of the population have never seen Brand's YouTube channel. I know I haven't.


----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2015)

Nor have I. I'll probably watch this though, and I'd expect the viewing figures to be many times what they usually are.


----------



## rioted (Apr 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> No. I've no intention of watching it. My guess is that the majority of the population have never seen Brand's YouTube channel. I know I haven't.


Never took you as a craven populist.  The majority of the population haven't done a lot of things you've done, surely?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 29, 2015)

killer b said:


> Everyone is going to watch it either way aren't they?



I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a red hot spoon coated in vinegar


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2015)

I'll watch it. I want to see if miliband drops any slang in there


----------



## cantsin (Apr 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> No. I've no intention of watching it. My guess is that the majority of the population have never seen Brand's YouTube channel. I know I haven't.



always a good bet to basically stick to what 35M + have done


----------



## ska invita (Apr 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I'll watch it. I want to see if miliband drops any slang in there


hes already been dropping t and hs in the trailer innit


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 29, 2015)

rioted said:


> Never took you as a craven populist.  The majority of the population haven't done a lot of things you've done, surely?


I was answering a post that said "Everyone is going to watch".  My point was I know for certain one who won't (me), and my best guess is that actually I'll be in the majority on this.  

Although not on many other things, like: liking brown sauce (HP, for me); not using "on demand" TV services; and not being able to name any current members of the Scottish football team.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2015)

ska invita said:


> hes already been dropping t and hs in the trailer innit!


I noticed that. I want to hear him say peng


----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2015)

Well, whatever. Either way it'll be watched by a huge number of people, many of whom wont have watched brand's show before and many of whom wont have been reached by an interview on, say, newsnight. So a good move for Miliband, depending on how its played.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 29, 2015)

ska invita said:


> hes already been dropping t and hs in the trailer innit



And the arms. You can see him remember to wave his arms about like Brand.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I noticed that. I want to hear him say peng


I had to look that up.


----------



## andysays (Apr 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I was answering a post that said "Everyone is going to watch".  My point was I know for certain one who won't (me), and my best guess is that actually I'll be in the majority on this.
> 
> Although not on many other things, like: *liking brown sauce (HP, for me*); not using "on demand" TV services; and not being able to name any current members of the Scottish football team.



Brown sauce is bad enough (true communists should always go red, obvs...) but a sauce named after the Houses of Parliament?

I never thought I'd see the day    <------ note *red* smiley


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 29, 2015)

andysays said:


> Brown sauce is bad enough (true communists should always go red, obvs...) but a sauce named after the Houses of Parliament?


It's a Unionist condiment.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 29, 2015)

andysays said:


> Brown sauce is bad enough (true communists should always go red, obvs...) but a sauce named after the Houses of Parliament?
> 
> I never thought I'd see the day    <------ note *red* smiley


Yes, I eat the Houses of Parliament on my breakfast.

Roar.


----------



## andysays (Apr 29, 2015)

And don't think you can wriggle out of this by switching to Daddie's Sauce, which is clearly supportive of the patriarchy, remember



> The People's Sauce is deepest red,
> It calls to mind our martyred dead,
> And ere their sausages grew cold,
> Their hearts' blood dyed its ev'ry fold


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 29, 2015)

It's fine to use HP sauce as long as you subvert the label by glueing some George Clinton stuff over it.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

interesting interview with one of the academics behind 'Nate Silvers' projections - mostly about whty they think Farage will only come in third.  Seems overly keen on shy tories to me, and on people thinking UKIP couldn't actually win - which may be right in many seats, but surely not Thanet?
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/academics_claim_nigel_farage_will_lose_in_south_thanet_1_4051891


----------



## treelover (Apr 29, 2015)

Will there be many 'shy tories' this time?, for many, of course not all, the brand has been 'de-toxified' somewhat, 


despite them having the most brutal welfare policies for a century.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 29, 2015)

treelover said:


> Will there be many 'shy tories' this time?, for many, of course not all, the brand has been 'de-toxified' somewhat,
> 
> 
> despite them having the most brutal welfare policies for a century.



For a century? 
My grandad and his two sisters were in Guildford workhouse less than a century ago. Orwell wrote about the Spikes less than a century ago.
If you're going to do hyperbole, at least make it halfway accurate and say "for 70 years".


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 29, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> If you're going to do hyperbole, at least make it halfway accurate and say "for 70 years".


tbf if you make it 'for 70 years', you're being entirely accurate and not hyperbolic in the slightest. And given that this period includes Thatcher, that's going some.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 29, 2015)

The full Miliband v Brand interview is here:


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 29, 2015)

He's like a real Ali G without the irony.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 29, 2015)

Just heard that the Tories will pass legislation to stop them raising taxes for 5 years if they win.  

Are they saying they aren't to be trusted? It sounds a strange ploy.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Just heard that the Tories will pass legislation to stop them raising taxes for 5 years if they win.
> 
> Are they saying they aren't to be trusted? It sounds a strange ploy.


Cameron insisting that it would be absolutely written into law. Presumably that emphasis means his other pledges are subject to post-victory review



this interview is lol. Jam tommorow. Banks are good vs 'hang bankers , hidden elites etc


----------



## Wilf (Apr 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Just heard that the Tories will pass legislation to stop them raising taxes for 5 years if they win.
> 
> Are they saying they aren't to be trusted? It sounds a strange ploy.


Even though there are other things they can do to increase tax revenues, it does put the emphasis of cutting the deficit right back on welfare cuts.  going to be a grim few years whoever wins.


----------



## Roadkill (Apr 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Just heard that the Tories will pass legislation to stop them raising taxes for 5 years if they win.
> 
> Are they saying they aren't to be trusted? It sounds a strange ploy.



Peston's making the same point on the BBC.  It does seem a rather odd move - or  a 'ridiculous gimmick,' as Ed Balls described it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 29, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Even though there are other things they can do to increase tax revenues, it does put the emphasis of cutting the deficit right back on welfare cuts.  going to be a grim few years whoever wins.


Yes, it's a shit assumption to be starting from. But I just thought the message was pretty astonishing. Like, "To be honest, I can't be trusted on any of these promises, so I'm going to have to pass laws that stop me from going against my word". 

So, will you pass a law to make sure you pass the law stopping you from increasing taxes?


----------



## two sheds (Apr 29, 2015)

No, it means that labour isn't going to be able to raise taxes if *they* get in after the tories' 5 years is up ...

... until the day after they pass new legislation saying that they can raise taxes.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 29, 2015)

two sheds said:


> No, it means that labour isn't going to be able to raise taxes if *they* get in after the tories' 5 years is up ...
> 
> ... until the day after they pass new legislation saying that they can raise taxes.



I'm sure the Tories can pass legislation preventing an incoming Labour government from passing legislation to repeal the legislation that says they can't raise taxes.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 29, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> I'm sure the Tories can pass legislation preventing an incoming Labour government from passing legislation to repeal the legislation that says they can't raise taxes.



Aha!!!!! But ..... 

And if the tories pass legislation that there can be no tax rises until 2020 all labour has to do is pass legislation saying that it's now 2020.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 29, 2015)

two sheds said:


> No, it means that labour isn't going to be able to raise taxes if *they* get in after the tories' 5 years is up ...


Eh? But the pledge is that a Tory government will introduce a law guaranteeing no rise in income tax rates, VAT or national insurance before 2020. If Labour gets in in 2020, the time limit will have been reached. So the law applies to the Tory govt from 15 - 20, not Labour thereafter.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 29, 2015)

So [the Trews].... Frost/Nixon it ain't


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 29, 2015)

that was _so_ last page ago


----------



## articul8 (Apr 29, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> that was _so_ last page ago


ah didn't keep up...


----------



## two sheds (Apr 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Eh? But the pledge is that a Tory government will introduce a law guaranteeing no rise in income tax rates, VAT or national insurance before 2020. If Labour gets in in 2020, the time limit will have been reached. So the law applies to the Tory govt from 15 - 20, not Labour thereafter.



Fair play. Even more pointless, then.


----------



## rioted (Apr 29, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> I'm sure the Tories can pass legislation preventing an incoming Labour government from passing legislation to repeal the legislation that says they can't raise taxes.


Why bother? Labour haven't exactly got a brilliant record of repealing Tory legislation.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 29, 2015)

rioted said:


> Why bother? Labour haven't exactly got a brilliant record of repealing Tory legislation.


I can already see the next election campaign if this happens, with the Tories demanding that Labour say whether or not they will keep the legislation. It's utterly absurd, but I can see the logic, and a spineless Labour party may well cave in.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 29, 2015)

Grrr... Cameron's saying that he knows what needs doing. Well, the fuckwit's had five years, so why hasn't he done it?


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 29, 2015)

Sorry to ask such a specific question, but does anyone know if Labour have a chance of unseating Greg Mulholland in Leeds Northwest? The seat has alternated between LibDem and Tory for a while, and historically it was a strong Tory seat. I would like to use my vote to unseat a LibDem if there's any point, but otherwise I'm floating between Alliance For Green Socialism and Spunking Cock. I have a postal vote so need to decide soon.


----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2015)

it's a shoe-in for the greens, apparently.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Sorry to ask such a specific question, but does anyone know if Labour have a chance of unseating Greg Mulholland in Leeds Northwest? The seat has alternated between LibDem and Tory for a while, and historically it was a strong Tory seat. I would like to use my vote to unseat a LibDem if there's any point, but otherwise I'm floating between Alliance For Green Socialism and Spunking Cock. I have a postal vote so need to decide soon.


http://electionforecast.co.uk/tables/predicted_vote_by_seat.html

Neck and neck between them in the LibScum, according to that.


----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2015)

You should vote Labour if you want Mulholland out, joking (and walter mitty fantasies) aside. They're in with a good chance I'd say.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 29, 2015)

belboid said:


> http://electionforecast.co.uk/tables/predicted_vote_by_seat.html
> 
> Neck and neck between them in the LibScum, according to that.


Ooh wow, thanks for that, belboid. Good resource. I guess it's Labour then. My how things have changed. I feel a twinge of regret as I have been practising my phallus illustration and was improving daily.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Ooh wow, thanks for that, belboid. Good resource. I guess it's Labour then. My how things have changed. I feel a twinge of regret as I have been practising my phallus illustration and was improving daily.


It is quite shocking, innit? Twas always the awful Keith Hampson while I was there, and he won by a mile.

Oddly, I've just seen that Sheffield Central is the seat predicted to have the second highest non-Tory, Labour, LibScum, kipper, Green, or Speaker vote, a whole 6%  Looking good for the Communists.


----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2015)

the seat was solid labour from 1997-2005, apparently.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

killer b said:


> the seat was solid labour from 1997-2005, apparently.


tis true, there was a massive swing in '97, significantly bigger even than it was nationally.

I wasn't there then, so cant help but think of it as tory heartland


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 29, 2015)

killer b said:


> the seat was solid labour from 1997-2005, apparently.


That surprises me. I can understand Hampson losing his seat as he was one of those Tories tainted by the sleaze label, but the constituency has many wealthy voters in Westwood/Adel, and Otley, which is well posh, so it just goes to show how much New Labour appealed to that sort.


----------



## ChrisD (Apr 29, 2015)

belboid said:


> http://electionforecast.co.uk/tables/predicted_vote_by_seat.html
> 
> Neck and neck between them in the LibScum, according to that.



what's this based on and how often updated?	interesting.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

ChrisD said:


> what's this based on and how often updated?	interesting.


"Our model combines data provided by YouGov with all publicly released national and constituency polls, historical election results, and data from the UK Census. Daily updates to the website are posted by Jack Blumenau, London School of Economics, most recently on 29 April 2015. To read commentary on the election using these forecasts, follow Election4castUK on Twitter. If you would like to give us feedback on this forecast, please email us at feedback@electionforecast.co.uk"

It's often being sited as 'Nate Silver's Election Forecast' despite him having almost absolutely nothing to do with it.

It does get quite dodgy on some of the particular seats tho.  I just noticed that Bradford West is down for having only 3% of people voting for someone outside of the Big 5.  And Bradford West is where George Galloway is MP, of course.  I think he'll get at least 5%


----------



## brogdale (Apr 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, it's a shit assumption to be starting from. But I just thought the message was pretty astonishing. Like, "To be honest, I can't be trusted on any of these promises, so I'm going to have to pass laws that stop me from going against my word".
> 
> So, will you pass a law to make sure you pass the law stopping you from increasing taxes?


Guardian have dug up this gideon quote from 2009...


> _No other chancellor in the long history of the office has felt the need to pass a law in order to convince people that he has the political will to implement his own Budget. As one commentator observed this week, there are only two conclusions. Either the chancellor has lost confidence in himself to stick to his resolution, and is, so to speak, asking the police to help him, or he fears that everyone else has lost confidence in his ability to keep his word, but hopes that they might believe in the statute book if not in him. Neither is much of a recommendation for the chancellor of the day._


----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2015)

Milibrand (urgh) was impressive I thought - very solid performance. That won't have done any harm at all.


----------



## ChrisD (Apr 29, 2015)

belboid said:


> "Our model combines data .......
> It does get quite dodgy on some of the particular seats tho.  I just noticed that Bradford West is down for having only 3% of people voting for someone outside of the Big 5.  And Bradford West is where George Galloway is MP, of course.  I think he'll get at least 5%



The Bookies are giving good odds for Claire Wright (independant) in East Devon which is not reflected in that table - but elsewhere I can see that data other than national stuff is included.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 29, 2015)

Could we have a law to stop it raining on a Thursday? I'd ask for it not to rain on a weekend but there'd be some fucking point to that.


----------



## chilango (Apr 29, 2015)

belboid said:


> It is quite shocking, innit? Twas always the awful Keith Hampson while I was there, and he won by a mile.
> 
> Oddly, I've just seen that Sheffield Central is the seat predicted to have the second highest non-Tory, Labour, LibScum, kipper, Green, or Speaker vote, a whole 6%  Looking good for the Communists.



What's the highest?


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 29, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> That surprises me. I can understand Hampson losing his seat as he was one of those Tories tainted by the sleaze label, but the constituency has many wealthy voters in Westwood/Adel, and Otley, which is well posh, so it just goes to show how much New Labour appealed to that sort.



There was a massive increase in the student population in the 90s, with many staying on afterwards and spreading out into neighbouring areas like Meanwood. Although these were fairly WC areas so probably solidly labour, the increased density will have helped numbers. The posh bits seemed to leak voters to the lib dems which will have reduced the Tory lead quite a bit, enough for labour to poke ahead. There's lots of orange banners in places like bramhope. Still quite a lot of Tory voters about. Not sure if there's been any boundary changes too.

Locally in the Leeds area I think Pudsey might be a close one, not a big Tory majority. Visiting politicians seem to be heading for there if they come to the city.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Could we have a law to stop it raining on a Thursday? I'd ask for it not to rain on a weekend but there'd be some fucking point to that.


i quite like it raining on thursdays.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Could we have a law to stop it raining on a Thursday? I'd ask for it not to rain on a weekend but there'd be some fucking point to that.








king canute trying to enforce a variation on the law against rain on thursdays


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 29, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Just heard that the Tories will pass legislation to stop them raising taxes for 5 years if they win.
> 
> Are they saying they aren't to be trusted? It sounds a strange ploy.



from what i gather, proposal does not apply to excise taxes (e.g. fags, booze, petrol) or any other new / existing stealth taxes

and this bunch have form (aided by spineless absention by labour on the workfare thing) for retrospective changes to law, so completely meaningless bollocks (ETA - what they are saying - not you)


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

chilango said:


> What's the highest?


Wyre Forest - which had the independent doctor bloke until 2010. 

I suspect Sheffield Central is because they have pirate party AND 'none of the above party' candidates.


----------



## treelover (Apr 29, 2015)

> David Cameron: it's time for Tory campaign to let rip in final week
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ign-let-rip-final-week-election-conservatives



Puff piece in the Guardian


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

treelover said:


> Puff piece in the Guardian


have you put in a complaint yet? http://www.theguardian.com/info/complaints-and-corrections


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

treelover said:


> Puff piece in the Guardian


are you a no platform for tories in the mainstream media man?


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 29, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Ooh wow, thanks for that, belboid. Good resource. I guess it's Labour then. My how things have changed. I feel a twinge of regret as I have been practising my phallus illustration and was improving daily.


Yeah if your primary aim is to kick the LibDems out then you want to vote Labour, the Guardian and May2015 both have it remaining LD but only by a small margin.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 29, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Could we have a law to stop it raining on a Thursday? I'd ask for it not to rain on a weekend but there'd be some fucking point to that.




Forecasts I've seen** suggest _mostly_ fine weather later next week and into the weekend after GE day, for what that far-too-early data might be worth.

**Prospective festival goer checks forecasts for non-electoral reasons ...  
Remember your forecasts may go down as well as up etc etc.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 29, 2015)

treelover said:


> Puff piece in the Guardian



Puff piece? Fart piece more like, with Cameron issuing a steaming pile of shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Forecasts I've seen** suggest _mostly_ fine weather later next week into the weekend after GE day, for what that far-too-early data might be worth.
> 
> **Prospective festival goer checks forecasts for non-electoral reasons ...
> Remember your forecasts may go down as well as up etc etc.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 29, 2015)

This no tie and rolled up sleeves thing Cameron does is really shit, isn't it? I presume it's supposed to make him look 'hard working' but combined with the rosy face just looks like a straggler from a shit stag do, falling out of Yates's on a Saturday afternoon. They've got no fucking idea.


----------



## superfly101 (Apr 29, 2015)




----------



## two sheds (Apr 29, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


>


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

two sheds said:


>



here's a treat


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 29, 2015)

Here's the nightmare scenario keeping me awake at night: a Boris majority government in November. It's being floated in the media here and there. A second election this year is a strong possibility http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/will-there-be-2-general-elections-in-2015 A minority Labour govt is currently the bookies' favourite for next week http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government Boris would replace Cameron as Tory leader. Labour would fall out with the SNP and lose a vote of no confidence. There'd be a snap election in November. Boris would stand down as Mayor and win a majority. It would make the last 5 years look like a picnic.

(N.B. The bookies have proven more accurate than pollsters in the past.)


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Here's the nightmare scenario keeping me awake at night: a Boris majority government in November. It's being floated in the media here and there. A second election this year is a strong possibility http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/will-there-be-2-general-elections-in-2015 A minority Labour govt is currently the bookies' favourite for next week http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government Boris would replace Cameron as Tory leader. Labour would fall out with the SNP and lose a vote of no confidence. There'd be a snap election in November. Boris would stand down as Mayor and win a majority. It would make the last 5 years look like a picnic.
> 
> (N.B. The bookies have proven more accurate than pollsters in the past.)


i wouldn't mind a boris government in november as long as there was a general election in december.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 29, 2015)

superfly101 said:


>


nothing if not consistent, then?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Here's the nightmare scenario keeping me awake at night: a Boris majority government in November. It's being floated in the media here and there. A second election this year is a strong possibility http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/will-there-be-2-general-elections-in-2015 A minority Labour govt is currently the bookies' favourite for next week http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government Boris would replace Cameron as Tory leader. Labour would fall out with the SNP and lose a vote of no confidence. There'd be a snap election in November. Boris would stand down as Mayor and win a majority. It would make the last 5 years look like a picnic.
> 
> (N.B. The bookies have proven more accurate than pollsters in the past.)


Assuming Cameron does not present, or fails to pass a QS(VoC), then Miliband would only pass his own QS with SNP votes. Why, if that were to happen, would the SNP then seek to bring that administration down and risk bringing about a tory admin? And 'snap elections' are not really within the remit of an incumbent; remember the provisions of the fixed term parliament act.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Here's the nightmare scenario keeping me awake at night: a Boris majority government in November. It's being floated in the media here and there. A second election this year is a strong possibility http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/will-there-be-2-general-elections-in-2015 A minority Labour govt is currently the bookies' favourite for next week http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/next-government Boris would replace Cameron as Tory leader. Labour would fall out with the SNP and lose a vote of no confidence. There'd be a snap election in November. Boris would stand down as Mayor and win a majority. It would make the last 5 years look like a picnic.
> 
> (N.B. The bookies have proven more accurate than pollsters in the past.)


Fantasy stuff. A minority Labour gov is on the cards but the rest is silly season. 

Firstly Boris will have to win the Tory leadership, which despite what some are saying is nothing like a certainty. Then you have to have a situation where the SNP know that causing Labour to lose a vote of confidence would probably issue in a Tory government and they do it anyway. Finally you're assuming a party that hasn't won a majority in 20 odd years can sweep to power when they are still trying to find a narrow channel to keep their right and left flanks in order.


----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2015)

Johnson.


----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2015)

also, not a fucking chance.


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Assuming Cameron does not present, or fails to pass a QS(VoC), then Miliband would only pass his own QS with SNP votes. Why, if that were to happen, would the SNP then seek to bring that administration down and risk bringing about a tory admin? And 'snap elections' are not really within the remit of an incumbent; remember the provisions of the fixed term parliament act.


 What I imagine is: SNP demands no Trident replacement but Labour won't budge. SNP, playing the long game with the overriding goal of another referendum one fine day, decides to stick to its principles and not risk what happened to the LibDems with tuition fees. They don't mind letting the Tories in for a few years. The main thing is to keep their near-100% of Scottish seats, and if anything a Tory govt will make the appetite for independence stronger than a Labour one would. As for the question of a snap election, I thought we'd have to have one if a govt loses a no-confidence vote?


----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 29, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/29/uk-election-ballot-papers-stolen-van-thieves-london
Stolen ballot papers  What dodginess is this? Are they getting ready to steal an election?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> What I imagine is: SNP demands no Trident replacement but Labour won't budge. SNP, playing the long game with the overriding goal of another referendum one fine day, decides to stick to its principles and not risk what happened to the LibDems with tuition fees. They don't mind letting the Tories in for a few years. The main thing is to keep their near-100% of Scottish seats, and if anything a Tory govt will make the appetite for independence stronger than a Labour one would. As for the question of a snap election, I thought we'd have to have one if a govt loses a no-confidence vote?


I think you're over-looking the capacity for the opposition to vote with or abstain to allow the government to legislate for (eg) Trident without any need for support from the nationalists.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 29, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/29/uk-election-ballot-papers-stolen-van-thieves-london
> Stolen ballot papers  What dodginess is this? Are they getting ready to steal an election?



Fresh ballot papers are being issued. In a different colour. There'll be no stealing of the election there.




			
				The Guardian said:
			
		

> Officers found nothing to suggest the white Mercedes van had been targeted for its contents or that the theft was an attempt at electoral fraud. They told the local authorities they believed it was a coincidence the stolen van contained ballot papers. The theft took place overnight.


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I think you're over-looking the capacity for the opposition to vote with or abstain to allow the government to legislate for (eg) Trident without any need for support from the nationalists.



There wouldn't be a vote specifically about Trident. Tories can just sit on their hands and wait.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> There wouldn't be a vote specifically about Trident. Tories can just sit on their hands and wait.


But you implied that their objection would bring down the administration they will put in place. What are you on about?


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 29, 2015)

I imagine that the SNP vote with Labour initially, while announcing that they are having a backroom negotiation about Trident. After a few weeks SNP announces that negotiations have broken down so they're withdrawing all support.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> I imagine that the SNP vote with Labour initially, while announcing that they are having a backroom negotiation about Trident. After a few weeks SNP announces that negotiations have broken down so they're withdrawing all support.



More likely that they would preserve their principled stance and let Lab take the rap for nukes. Not much logic to put an administration in place only to then immediately bring it down. Nonsense.


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 29, 2015)

But how do you preserve your principled stance while propping up a govt which opposes your principle? Clegg showed what happens if you try.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 29, 2015)

As long as Trident gets moved from Scotland, why should the SNP care? Labour can kick the whole thing into the long grass by announcing a consultation as to the future location of Trident and that can take as long as Labour likes and the SNP have a sufficient victory for their voters.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> But how do you preserve your principled stance while propping up a govt which opposes your principle? Clegg showed what happens if you try.


I don't think they intend to prop it up. Sturgeon has made clear that they'll offer Lab 'confidence' (QS) and thereafter support(or not) on a case-by-case basis with no formalised agreement, let alone coalition. Sturgeon has said all this knowing that Lab will keep the nukes.


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 29, 2015)

I hope you're right. And I think you probably are right. I like to think that Sturgeon will be an asset to England by pushing Miliband to the left on one or two things. But..it's nerve-wracking. I don't remember ever being this worried about an election before.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 29, 2015)

killer b said:


> Johnson.


True, sorry.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I don't think they intend to prop it up. Sturgeon has made clear that they'll offer Lab 'confidence' (QS) and thereafter support(or not) on a case-by-case basis with no formalised agreement, let alone coalition. Sturgeon has said all this knowing that Lab will keep the nukes.


Exactly. The SNP don't want coalition. They want a vote by vote arrangement. And Labour doesn't need the SNP to support a Trident replacement: there is enough support in the House for that without the SNP.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> More likely that they would preserve their principled stance and let Lab take the rap for nukes. Not much logic to put an administration in place only to then immediately bring it down. Nonsense.


Absolutely.  It will give them a further stick to beat Labour with, and thus hold onto the seats they've just won


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

Quartz said:


> As long as Trident gets moved from Scotland,


there's not really anywhere else it can go, though.  Supposedly


----------



## weepiper (Apr 29, 2015)

belboid said:


> there's not really anywhere else it can go, though.  Supposedly


That's not an argument for keeping it where it is. It can't 'really' go here anymore either.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

weepiper said:


> That's not an argument for keeping it where it is. It can't 'really' go here anymore either.


oh hell no. But it does mean its getting rid of it entirely, or nothing.  They cant just move it to Milford Sound


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

belboid said:


> oh hell no. But it does mean its getting rid of it entirely, or nothing.  They cant just move it to Milford Sound


I want to say _entirely_.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 30, 2015)

belboid said:


> there's not really anywhere else it can go, though.  Supposedly



There are plenty of places along the south coast. Indeed there are already a couple of naval bases.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

Quartz said:


> There are plenty of places along the south coast. Indeed there are already a couple of naval bases.


The MOD is apparently considering Gibraltar.

The difficulties of relocating Trident are discussed in the report from CND: http://www.banthebomb.org/images/stories/pdfs/noplacefortrident.pdf (PDF).


----------



## Quartz (Apr 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> The MOD is apparently considering Gibraltar.
> 
> The difficulties of relocating Trident are discussed in the report from CND: http://www.banthebomb.org/images/stories/pdfs/noplacefortrident.pdf (PDF).



That's a bit one-sided - as you would expect, given the source. The problems it states with relocation in England are in part political, not technical. That they don't want the base within a certain distance of people will likely have to be sacrificed. They're considering that for Gibraltar, after all.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 30, 2015)

belboid said:


> They cant just move it to Milford Sound


They certainly can't being as it's a world heritage site in a national park in a independent country with a long standing no nukes policy.(US warships are unable to visit NZ because they won't say which ones have nukes on them)

E2a,possibly you where referring to Milford Haven after which Milford Sound is named.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 30, 2015)

Quartz said:


> That's a bit one-sided - as you would expect, given the source. The problems it states with relocation in England are in part political, not technical. That they don't want the base within a certain distance of people will likely have to be sacrificed. They're considering that for Gibraltar, after all.



What if we bung it in the Falklands? Not like anyone really gives a fuck about there aside from a few mental Argies.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

Quartz said:


> That's a bit one-sided


It's not something I'm prepared to be neutral about.


----------



## DownwardDog (Apr 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> And Labour doesn't need the SNP to support a Trident replacement: there is enough support in the House for that without the SNP.



Is there? We Conservatives are nothing if not pragmatic and ethically flexible. I'm sure some excuse to vote against it could be manufactured if it meant inflicting a scalding defeat on Ed M.


----------



## belboid (Apr 30, 2015)

DownwardDog said:


> Is there? We Conservatives are nothing if not utterly stupid and unprincipledly flexible. I'm sure some excuse to vote against it could be manufactured if it meant inflicting a scalding defeat on Ed M. by shooting ourselves in the foot


corrected for you


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

DownwardDog said:


> Is there? We Conservatives are nothing if not pragmatic and ethically flexible. I'm sure some excuse to vote against it could be manufactured if it meant inflicting a scalding defeat on Ed M.


Ideological and doctrinal neo-liberals find it convenient to hide behind the false facade of 'pragmatism'. Anyway, this is not an issue over which the deep state will permit the party to play politics.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

DownwardDog said:


> Is there? We Conservatives are nothing if not pragmatic and ethically flexible. I'm sure some excuse to vote against it could be manufactured if it meant inflicting a scalding defeat on Ed M.


What is it with people and daft half-baked theories on this thread?  It's as if the novelty of hung parliaments has turned people's brains to blancmange.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> What is it with people and daft half-baked theories on this thread?  It's as if the novelty of hung parliaments has turned people's brains to blancmange.








this is a novelty


----------



## belboid (Apr 30, 2015)

peterkro said:


> They certainly can't being as it's a world heritage site in a national park in a independent country with a long standing no nukes policy.(US warships are unable to visit NZ because they won't say which ones have nukes on them)
> 
> E2a,possibly you where referring to Milford Haven after which Milford Sound is named.


ahem.....maaaaaaaaybe


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> The MOD is apparently considering Gibraltar.



that would go well


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> that would go well


Indeed. It's bizarre.


----------



## belboid (Apr 30, 2015)

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...i-like-nigel-farage-a-great-deal-8446651.html

Utter, utter cunt.  Which we always knew, of course


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

belboid said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...i-like-nigel-farage-a-great-deal-8446651.html
> 
> Utter, utter cunt.  Which we always knew, of course


Cue some die-hards trying to defend the twat.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 30, 2015)

I've always hated Morrissey can I just say that? Stupid warbly voiced cunt. Ruined Johnny Marr's music.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

Two vermin and a funeral:


----------



## Wilf (Apr 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Two vermin and a funeral:



He must be hoping some of Alexander's glamour rubs off on him.


----------



## treelover (Apr 30, 2015)

> News
> * London's social cleansing shame: How 50,000 families were silently shipped out of the capital *
> 
> Councils are currently moving homeless mothers and children out of their boroughs at a rate of close to 500 families a week
> ...



Incredible, revealing, and shaming that this isn't an election issue


----------



## treelover (Apr 30, 2015)

> The spike coincides with the Coalition’s introduction of the benefit cap and “bedroom tax”, both of which have made it significantly harder for poor people to afford housing in London. In 2010, the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, vowed that the controversial welfare reforms would not lead to “Kosovo-style social cleansing”, pledging: “You are not going to see thousands of families evicted from the place where they have been living.”



Got that wrong didn't he?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 30, 2015)

anything worth reading into this? It's on sky news so I'm naturally 

an Ipsos MORI poll suggests the Conservatives have taken a five-point lead ahead of Labour


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 30, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> anything worth reading into this? It's on sky news so I'm naturally
> 
> an Ipsos MORI poll suggests the Conservatives have taken a five-point lead ahead of Labour



Probably not:


----------



## articul8 (Apr 30, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I've always hated Morrissey can I just say that? Stupid warbly voiced cunt. Ruined Johnny Marr's music.



Get to fuck   One of the most stupid posts ever seen on this site - and that's saying something!


----------



## marty21 (Apr 30, 2015)

I've been canvassed for the first time this election - Labour were outside Clapton Station last night - have seen no other canvassers so far - pretty safe seat - although they were desperate that I vote Abbott as I said I hadn't forgiven her for all that private school business


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 30, 2015)

marty21 said:


> I've been canvassed for the first time this election - Labour were outside Clapton Station last night - have seen no other canvassers so far - pretty safe seat - although they were desperate that I vote Abbott as I said I hadn't forgiven her for all that private school business


bloody labour came down my street last week and knocked on my door. then before i'd had a chance to get near the fucking front door they'd shuffled off and just put a couple of leaflets through the door along the lines of 'sorry we called while you were out' bollocks nonsense.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 30, 2015)

marty21 said:


> I've been canvassed for the first time this election - Labour were outside Clapton Station last night - have seen no other canvassers so far - pretty safe seat - although they were desperate that I vote Abbott as I said I hadn't forgiven her for all that private school business


i would vote diane abbott if she promised to hang michael portillo and andrew neil from a tree in clissold park.


----------



## rioted (Apr 30, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> bloody labour came down my street last week and knocked on my door. then before i'd had a chance to get near the fucking front door they'd shuffled off and just put a couple of leaflets through the door along the lines of 'sorry we called while you were out' bollocks nonsense.


And what would you have said to them if you'd been able to do up your flies fast enough? To ALL parties I always say I'm undecided and keep them talking until they're desperate to go. If they think there's a chance they'll get my vote, they'll keep coming back. Which keeps them from bothering other people.  I see it as part of my civic duty.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 30, 2015)

rioted said:


> And what would you have said to them if you'd been able to do up your flies fast enough? To ALL parties I always say I'm undecided and keep them talking until they're desperate to go. If they think there's a chance they'll get my vote, they'll keep coming back. Which keeps them from bothering other people.  I see it as part of my civic duty.


fyi: not everyone keeps their flies undone when they're at home. it's just you.


----------



## treelover (Apr 30, 2015)

> Cameron knows he comes across as a pompous stuffed shirt with a short temper. So he has retreated to set pieces mainly in workplaces where the select few are warned to be on their best behaviour (and yes I have that first hand from employees at a recent one here in Leeds, to which the temps and disaffected were kept well away)



This was posted on another forum, very revealing on the Tory campaign.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i would vote diane abbott if she promised to hang michael portillo and andrew neil from a tree in clissold park.


So would I, if she promptly noosed up and kicked her own chair away.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

treelover said:


> This was posted on another forum, very revealing on the Tory campaign.


Can I ask which other forum?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

I'm no fan of the family, but this response to a question in today's WATO interview is amusing...


> *14.27*
> Mrs Cooper was asked how she and husband Ed Balls celebrated Ed Balls Day. She didn't really respond, just saying *she regretted the growing commercialisation of the event*.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 30, 2015)

treelover said:


> This was posted on another forum, very revealing on the Tory campaign.



I don't think we'll see Cameron take to the streets and speak to groups of randoms like Major decided to do in 92.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I'm no fan of the family, but this response to a question in today's WATO interview is amusing...


I'll give her that.  Well played.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 30, 2015)

Grauniad analysis on why the tories will win most seats, but (probably) not end up in power - oh, yes, and how that might all change:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...party-but-ed-miliband-leads-the-race-to-no-10


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 30, 2015)

Alberto Nardelli's pretty good at poll-analysis -- I don't always like what he writes, but it's always worth a read.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 30, 2015)

Finally got Lib Dems leaflet through the door, lazy fuckers just posted it


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Had 2 leaflets now from Tories and Lub Dems. More from Labour and the Greens who are actively knocking doors. Nothing at all from UKIP.

They did have a "presence" in town on Saturday. But it was a rag-tag bunch of  shabbily dressed middle aged odd bods with home made placards and a balloon. Very odd. The nearby NUT stall was miles slicker and attracting far more interest.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Just had one of the local Labour councillors knocking on the door, on his own. 

Looking a bit of a broken man he took the news that I'll be voting Green with resignation of a man who's been repeatedly kicked in the balls. 

I felt a bit sorry for him. I really don't think Labour expected the "Green Surge" (yuk) to hit so fast, and so hard here. 

They've neglected (or at least taken their eye off the ball) the parliamentary seat here (it seems) to focus on neighbouring Reading West but this is looking like it might cost them councillors too.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

C4 digging some timely dirt on the Cameron family estate in Jersey. Not much that the Guardian haven't already picked at, but C4 did get a response out of Downing St. today.

http://www.channel4.com/news/cameron-david-ian-jersey-tax-haven-conservatives


> Ian Cameron's offshore wealth is revealed in a legal document filed with courts on the island, where he had helped run a multi-million pound investment fund.
> 
> It has previously been widely reported that David Cameron's father (pictured above right, with his son) helped manage funds in tax havens in Panama and Jersey.
> 
> However, this is the first time he has been shown to have personally held wealth offshore.


----------



## rutabowa (Apr 30, 2015)

I am anarchist when it comes to going to squart parties and punk gig and talking about the current political system but come the ballot box labour all the way


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 30, 2015)

articul8 said:


> Get to fuck   One of the most stupid posts ever seen on this site - and that's saying something!


fuck off you've only joined the Morrissey fan club to drag it to the left and if that fails split it


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)

Massdebates on telly now, what thread?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 30, 2015)

BBC weather has it raining on Thursday. Bad for turnout; bad for Labour.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 30, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> BBC weather has it raining on Thursday. Bad for turnout; bad for Labour.


Don't trust the BBC weather that far in advance


----------



## two sheds (Apr 30, 2015)

See, what we need is a law stopping rain on Thursdays I told you so.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> BBC weather has it raining on Thursday. Bad for turnout; bad for Labour.


Not much of an issue tbh. The projected depression is progged to be filling by midweek, with the threat of showers receding Northwards by Thursday as the ridge of an anticyclone builds from the South.

In short; risk of showers (esp. in North) but mild. No 'game-changers' from the skies.


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 30, 2015)

I think it's safe to dismiss fears of a late Tory surge: the FT's boffins, a team of university researchers, say the gap between Con and Lab projected seat totals has shrunk - Con 279, Lab 270 http://elections.ft.com/uk/2015/projections.  

Today the FT came out for another Con Dem coalition in quite a well argued piece which rubbishes Miliband's economy ideas http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e61ce174-ea94-11e4-96ec-00144feab7de.html#axzz3YpbXicum


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> I think it's safe to dismiss fears of a late Tory surge: the FT's boffins, a team of university researchers, say the gap between Con and Lab projected seat totals has shrunk - Con 279, Lab 270 http://elections.ft.com/uk/2015/projections.
> 
> Today the FT came out for another Con Dem coalition in quite a well argued piece which rubbishes Miliband's economy ideas http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e61ce174-ea94-11e4-96ec-00144feab7de.html#axzz3YpbXicum





> The Financial Times has no fixed party political allegiances, but we have a clear vision of the priorities for the next administration.



Lol...but our (paying) readers do...


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 30, 2015)

They've come out for Labour in the past.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> They've come out for Labour in the past.


I assure you they haven't. Blair maybe.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> They've come out for Labour in the past.


You think an article advocating more austerity is "_well argued". _


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 30, 2015)

I'm saying it's well written, not that I agree.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> I'm saying it's well written, not that I agree.





David Clapson said:


> ...in quite a *well argued* piece...


----------



## David Clapson (Apr 30, 2015)

You having trouble with your English?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> You having trouble with your English?


No; quality of argument is not a function of grammar or syntax.


----------



## rioted (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> You think an article advocating more austerity is "_well argued". _


TBF if you are one of the FTs target audience, it is well argued. Some people are doing very well thankyou from austerity.


----------



## gosub (May 1, 2015)

rioted said:


> TBF if you are one of the FTs target audience, it is well argued. Some people are doing very well thankyou from austerity.


On mobile, not read the article yet, but would imagine Ft target audience have done well out of the last 7 years economic policy either by having assets that appreciated as 'we' devalued money and/ or by using and future generations to debt commitments


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> No; quality of argument is not a function of grammar or syntax.



I suppose you can make a well argued point from any set of premises.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 1, 2015)

I'm capable of  half-way respecting coherently-argued Tory/free market-obsessed points _intellectually_.

Those who present them are still 'arguing' complete shite. 

IMO like


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 1, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I suppose you can make a well argued point from any set of premises.


Even a firebombed shop front


----------



## Santino (May 1, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> I'm saying it's well written, not that I agree.


Did this chap write it?


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

Lol


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 1, 2015)

Sean Connery should have ex-pat next to him


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 1, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> before i'd had a chance to get near the fucking front door they'd shuffled off and just put a couple of leaflets through the door along the lines of 'sorry we called while you were out' bollocks nonsense.



Must have been Alan Johnson, old habits die hard.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 1, 2015)

The truth will set ye free

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-05-01/cameron-its-about-my-career-er-country/


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Even a firebombed shop front



Or a pub.


----------



## treelover (May 1, 2015)

> The Guardian view: Britain needs a new direction, Britain needs Labour Editorial
> Election 2015 poses some profound questions for this country. Ed Miliband has better answers than his rivals, and so deserves a chance to govern
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...view-britain-needs-new-direction-needs-labour



Guardian comes out for Labour, so no Clegg mania this time..


----------



## treelover (May 1, 2015)

> In each area, Labour could go further and be bolder. But the contrast between them and the Conservatives is sharp. While Labour would repeal the bedroom tax, the Tories are set on those £12bn of cuts to social security, cuts that will have a concrete and painful impact on real lives. Even if they don’t affect you, they will affect your disabled neighbour, reliant on a vital service that suddenly gets slashed, or the woman down the street, already working an exhausting double shift and still not able to feed her children without the help of benefits that are about to be squeezed yet further. For those people, and for many others, a Labour government can make a very big difference.



Good section


----------



## brogdale (May 2, 2015)

Hey ladeeez....there's still time!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2015)

is he turning into gryff rhys jones in his dotage?


----------



## two sheds (May 2, 2015)

Who, brogdale?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2015)

nah, huge grant.


----------



## two sheds (May 2, 2015)

in that case I dunno.


----------



## two sheds (May 2, 2015)

Good piece in this issue of Private Eye by M.D. about the NHS Action Party manifesto by the way. Not on the website and I'd type a bit of it in but I'm off out into the garden


----------



## brogdale (May 2, 2015)

> *Down to MarRamsgate, you can keep the Costa Brava, I'm telling ya mate I'd rather have a day down MarRamsgate with all me the royal family*








man of the people


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2015)

amount of photo ops he does with a pint its a wonder he manages to stay sober. Must be pouring them in the plant pots on the sly


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> amount of photo ops he does with a pint its a wonder he manages to stay sober. Must be pouring them in the plant pots on the sly



Nah, I reckon it's managed so that he can get his first drink in quite early.


----------



## brogdale (May 2, 2015)

Needs no title.






BrisUrbs take a bow.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 2, 2015)




----------



## chilango (May 2, 2015)

Her offices got vandalised with red paint not too long back too.


----------



## brogdale (May 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Her offices got vandalised with red paint not too long back too.


Oh dear...


----------



## chilango (May 2, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Oh dear...








Plus other stuff (iirc) painted on the shutters.


Hmmm. 

Not a particularly useful act imo.


----------



## brogdale (May 2, 2015)

There's alot of bollux being written about the vermin holding Croydon Centrale...all on the basis of Ashcroft's last set of constituency polls that included Barfwell's former seat. Helpfully Smithson has graphed on key component of the marginal findings, (% 2010 LD -> Con/Lab) and found that Ashcroft's figure for LD->Con for Croydon was pretty much twice that for all the other marginals polled.






In October Lord Ashcroft found a split in Croydon Central of LAB 45% to CON 11%.
Rogue as fuck.
Barfwell is history.


----------



## rekil (May 2, 2015)

What's going on here. Did someone plant a little camera on the mirror?

https://vine.co/v/e7Dz2w6VlJU

Like a little parrot.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 2, 2015)

copliker said:


> What's going on here. Did someone plant a little camera on the mirror?
> 
> https://vine.co/v/e7Dz2w6VlJU
> 
> Like a little parrot.


He looks like he's being inflated... Steve Bell always draws him as a rubber johnny


----------



## Doctor Carrot (May 2, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Sean Connery should have ex-pat next to him



Shee me I'm EshNP


----------



## rekil (May 2, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> He looks like he's being inflated... Steve Bell always draws him as a rubber johnny


Ah yes, the reference to him claiming to be "pumped up" by small businesses startups. Now he reminds me of the inflatable dancing tube thing on always sunny.


----------



## brogdale (May 2, 2015)

When the vermin undertake their campaign 'post mortem' I'm pretty certain that stunts like this will be judged unhelpful. I know what they're attempting to hammer home but...really...did they read that through?
Reads clearly "we've lost".


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 2, 2015)

I broke my ban on not using Twitter at home to troll the Tory councillor, I'm so weak 

Question: If print out a few anti-tory booklets and hang out outside the polling station do I still get into shit? I'm not campaigning for anyone, just against someone


----------



## gosub (May 2, 2015)




----------



## Dogsauce (May 3, 2015)

Remember that labour tax bombshell for working families story on the front of the times last week?


----------



## killer b (May 3, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/03/ed-miliband-sets-promises-in-stone

....what?


----------



## JimW (May 3, 2015)

killer b said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/03/ed-miliband-sets-promises-in-stone
> 
> ....what?


Reads like a spoof.


----------



## JTG (May 3, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> I broke my ban on not using Twitter at home to troll the Tory councillor, I'm so weak
> 
> Question: If print out a few anti-tory booklets and hang out outside the polling station do I still get into shit? I'm not campaigning for anyone, just against someone


Almost certainly. The presiding officer will not be amused


----------



## ska invita (May 3, 2015)

killer b said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/03/ed-miliband-sets-promises-in-stone
> 
> ....what?





> What happens to it if Labour loses is less clear.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 3, 2015)

chilango said:


> Plus other stuff (iirc) painted on the shutters.



Nice bit of sexism there - and given that she seems to be reasonably well liked/not an oddball I can't see that doing her much harm


----------



## bi0boy (May 3, 2015)

JimW said:


> Reads like a spoof.



No this is really the scope of Milliband's arrogance - he thinks he's on a divine mission. Cameron on the other hand is more of a reluctant technocrat being pulled along by his party.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 3, 2015)

ska invita said:


>



That is far more likely to happen quicker if Labour wins given that it will be a weak government that has to make unpopular cuts and fails to get a handle on immigration, and will have to offer quite a bit to Scotland to hold on. 

In opposition against another unpopular nasty Tory/Libdem/whatever coalition they will be able to continue to present themselves as a pragmatic vaguely nice party.


----------



## chilango (May 3, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Nice bit of sexism there - and given that she seems to be reasonably well liked/not an oddball I can't see that doing her much harm
> Hmmm.
> 
> Not a particularly useful act imo.



Yeah.

She certainly seems popular, and I've heard her referred to (by non-Tories) as a "good constituency MP". 

I'm not saying that's true, but....


----------



## brogdale (May 3, 2015)

There could be a grain of truth to this claim from Farage...


If true, how depressing when there is the PC option for a 'protest' vote.

Just for reference...from after the 2014 Euros...







> Areas where there are high numbers of Ukip-leaning voters are coloured shades of purple. The marginal seats in which its impact will be crucial are outlined in black


----------



## The Boy (May 3, 2015)

brogdale said:


> There could be a grain of truth to this claim from Farage...
> 
> 
> If true, how depressing when there is the PC option for a 'protest' vote.
> ...





Is there any evidence he is right?  I know I could probably google, but I'm supposed to be studying atm.


----------



## brogdale (May 3, 2015)

The Boy said:


> Is there any evidence he is right?  I know I could probably google, but I'm supposed to be studying atm.


Ashcroft has not polled any Valleys constituencies AFAIK...probably because none of them are considered in any way marginal. I not sure about any other evidence of what Farage claims...other than the strong 2014 showing in the map above.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 3, 2015)

The Boy said:


> Is there any evidence he is right?  I know I could probably google, but I'm supposed to be studying atm.


Plenty of independent polling showing that UKIP are doing well in Wales in general


----------



## Dogsauce (May 3, 2015)

chilango said:


> Yeah.
> 
> She certainly seems popular, and I've heard her referred to (by non-Tories) as a "good constituency MP".
> 
> I'm not saying that's true, but....



She still thinks the NHS should introduce charges. The true bastards always seem so innocuous.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 3, 2015)

Just thought (and mentioned on another thread) that I haven't spotted *any* big billboard adverts so far in this election. This might be because I'm in a safe seat area (though there were loads last time as lots of people drive through here) and have only been back in the country for a week and a bit, but are they not doing them this time?  Is there any reason for this - are they skint or is the money being spent elsewhere? Or am I just not paying attention?  Who has seen any?


----------



## ska invita (May 3, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Just thought (and mentioned on another thread) that I haven't spotted *any* big billboard adverts so far in this election. This might be because I'm in a safe seat area (though there were loads last time as lots of people drive through here) and have only been back in the country for a week and a bit, but are they not doing them this time?  Is there any reason for this - are they skint or is the money being spent elsewhere? Or am I just not paying attention?  Who has seen any?


was thinking the same


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 3, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Just thought (and mentioned on another thread) that I haven't spotted *any* big billboard adverts so far in this election. This might be because I'm in a safe seat area (though there were loads last time as lots of people drive through here) and have only been back in the country for a week and a bit, but are they not doing them this time?  Is there any reason for this - are they skint or is the money being spent elsewhere? Or am I just not paying attention?  Who has seen any?



Presumably everyone is getting better at targeting specific types of voters in marginal seats, which means direct mail and digital campaigns. Outdoor is always the sign of clueless or absent media planning, which is why tube posters are usually for crappy musicals and spurious courses.


----------



## chilango (May 3, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> She still thinks the NHS should introduce charges. The true bastards always seem so innocuous.



Oh, I'm not for a moment saying that she's somehow "alright", she's not. But she is popular with enough of her constituents, and popular beyond Party loyalties too, for acts like these to firm up her support and standing with those constituents.


----------



## JTG (May 3, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Outdoor is always the sign of clueless or absent media planning, which is why tube posters are usually for crappy musicals and spurious courses.


 Never pay to watch a movie advertised on the side of a bus. Works for me.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 3, 2015)

JimW said:


> Reads like a spoof.




Blimey, you're right. I thought that link was going to be about his interview in  Saturday's Guardian, which IMO was actually half-way-reasonable-ish (in parts).

But a carved stone??? Ridiculous to everyone, or just ridiculous to us Urban types? A bit unsure tbh how it might come across electorally/generally. Like you I suspect badly though


----------



## Dogsauce (May 3, 2015)

chilango said:


> Oh, I'm not for a moment saying that she's somehow "alright", she's not. But she is popular with enough of her constituents, and popular beyond Party loyalties too, for acts like these to firm up her support and standing with those constituents.



Yes, it's witless and counterproductive (to the point people will be shouting 'false flag').

A lot of people grumbling that she has had police forensics out and everything, which never happens to anyone else when their car gets done over.


----------



## brogdale (May 3, 2015)

Weather update.
This is the first chance to have a look at the UKMO's (human interpreted) FAX Charts for Thursday the 7th...







Some occluded (probably decaying) fronts and the odd trough in a fairly slack, coolish NWly airstream. Pretty non-descript for the most part. Bits and pieces of cloud, bits of rain on and off for some...but no game-changer.

Not 'tory', nor 'Labour' weather. A tie!


----------



## William of Walworth (May 3, 2015)

Much more dry that wet being the main thing. And Friday onwards look mainly dry as well, especially in the South. I've been checking the technical stuff myself (on Netweather) because of the post-Election festival we're going to on Friday.


----------



## brogdale (May 3, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Much more dry that wet being the main thing. And Friday onwards look mainly dry as well, especially in the South. I've been checking the technical stuff myself (on Netweather) because of the post-Election festival we're going to on Friday.


Yes, mostly dry and cloudy would be a good summary.

Not much chance of the weather influencing many people's decision whether or not to vote...or festival for that matter!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 3, 2015)

I thought it was correlatory, rather then binary. As in, the degree to which it is a lovely day for a walk to the polling station increases the chance of the apathetic voting, rather than there being a cohort that only votes if it is dry.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 3, 2015)

brogdale  : There's always mixed messages with weather, and ever changing ones as you know. But the _mean trend_ looks like being towards drier weather from about Thursday (just need one exceptional, and wetter, run from GFS, which only came up to annoy me,  to get contradicted in later runs. That one looked a lot like an outlier to me though)

Right, back to politics


----------



## brogdale (May 3, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I thought it was correlatory, rather then binary. As in, the degree to which it is a lovely day for a walk to the polling station increases the chance of the apathetic voting, rather than there being a cohort that only votes if it is dry.


_Whether_ or not covers it! Geddit?


----------



## brogdale (May 3, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> brogdale  : There's always mixed messages with weather, and ever changing ones as you know. But the _mean trend_ looks like being towards drier weather from about Thursday (just need one exceptional, and wetter, run from GFS, which only came up to annoy me,  to get contradicted in later runs. That one looked a lot like an outlier to me though)
> 
> Right, back to politics


Stick to the FAX charts...they have the human input of the Exeter brains...better than the Yank's NWP modelling.


----------



## treelover (May 3, 2015)

How many people have already voted by postal vote and what % are pensioners?


----------



## stethoscope (May 3, 2015)

My dad just came out with 'Clegg for PM... thats Post Mortem'


----------



## billy_bob (May 3, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> My dad just came out with 'Clegg for PM... thats Post Mortem'





Let's hope so. 

PM can also stand for 'Powdery Mildew', an unpleasant fungus clinging to the side of other plants.

Less appropriately for Clegg:
'Polymitosis' - a disease a common symptom of which is difficulty swallowing
'Perpetual Motion' - going on forever seems unlikely in this case...


----------



## Quartz (May 3, 2015)

Labour Uncut are reporting that postal votes are breaking for the Tories.

http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/05/0...-to-casa-brand-driven-by-postal-ballot-panic/

I've not heard of them before but I'm surprised postal votes are being opened now rather than on Thursday.


----------



## two sheds (May 3, 2015)

that may change, they haven't got mine yet.


----------



## bi0boy (May 3, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Labour Uncut are reporting that postal votes are breaking for the Tories.
> 
> http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/05/0...-to-casa-brand-driven-by-postal-ballot-panic/
> 
> I've not heard of them before but I'm surprised postal votes are being opened now rather than on Thursday.



They aren't being opened, but I think they can see who has voted and cross-check that with canvassing data.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 3, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> They aren't being opened, but I think they can see who has voted and cross-check that with canvassing data.


the article says they aren't suppposed to beopened but every one does and reports the info back to HQ's. To which I say Jimmy Hill


----------



## krink (May 3, 2015)

Postal votes are being opened as I just did a session. No idea if they count the ones opened now after the polls close or before. I suspect they'd all be counted together.


----------



## Tankus (May 3, 2015)




----------



## krink (May 3, 2015)

Just for info, we open the envelopes, take out the votes put them into piles for local and general but its all face down so nobody mooching about the hall could tally anything.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 3, 2015)




----------



## treelover (May 3, 2015)

> Labour insiders familiar with the latest figures have told _Uncut _that the picture for Labour in marginal seats, where it is fighting the Tories, is almost uniformly grim.
> 
> Seats that canvass returns had suggested were strong prospects for gains are much more finely balanced and those that were close are swinging heavily to the Tories.
> 
> ...




That Labour Uncut article is basically saying Labour have lost the election, is it a Blairite site?


----------



## treelover (May 3, 2015)

> According to the electoral commission postal votes have not yet been counted. So I’m calling bullshit
> 
> http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/electoral_commission_pdf_file/0010/108937/NAW-Postal-voting.pdf



From the comments, is this article Blairite spin?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 3, 2015)

treelover said:


> From the comments, is this article Blairite spin?


no, that's a pdf from the electoral commission.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 3, 2015)

treelover said:


> That Labour Uncut article is basically saying Labour have lost the election, is it a Blairite site?


why not read on and see?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 3, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Weather update.
> This is the first chance to have a look at the UKMO's (human interpreted) FAX Charts for Thursday the 7th...
> 
> 
> ...


lib dem weather


----------



## brogdale (May 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> lib dem weather


Where on that map does it suggest such a shower of cunts?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 3, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Where on that map does it suggest such a shower of cunts?


"no game-changer"


----------



## William of Walworth (May 3, 2015)

Why is that Labour Uncut stuff on this particular thread? Surely should be on the polling thread.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 3, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Blimey, you're right. I thought that link was going to be about his interview in  Saturday's Guardian, which IMO was actually half-way-reasonable-ish (in parts).
> 
> But a carved stone??? Ridiculous to everyone, or just ridiculous to us Urban types? A bit unsure tbh how it might come across electorally/generally. Like you I suspect badly though


He should have gone for having them as tattoos complete with misspellings and inappropriate apostrophes.


----------



## bi0boy (May 3, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Why is that Labour Uncut stuff on this particular thread? Surely should be on the polling thread.



Because it's about the general election, and it's not about an opinion poll?


----------



## treelover (May 3, 2015)

It looks like unsubstantiated bile from the Blairites, going by comments on the article, commenters also point the illegality of what L/L is describing.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 3, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Because it's about the general election, and it's not about an opinion poll?




Maybe, but it needs polling-knowledge-based analysis IMO. Canvass returns are 'polls' of sorts.

(Sort of get your point, but there's a conceptual overlap there IMO).


----------



## bi0boy (May 3, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Maybe, but it needs polling-knowledge-based analysis IMO. Canvass returns are 'polls' of sorts.
> 
> (Sort of get your point, but there's a conceptual overlap there IMO).



The article contains no data to analyse.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 3, 2015)

Fair point, but I guess my thinking back there was that those who know about polls, might also know about how canvass returns work.


----------



## two sheds (May 4, 2015)

Nice high pressure on Thursday looks possible  

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/...#?tab=surfacePressureColour&fcTime=1430956800


----------



## brogdale (May 4, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Nice high pressure on Thursday looks possible
> 
> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/...#?tab=surfacePressureColour&fcTime=1430956800


Yeah, the occluded front (cloud/lightish rain) is progged further North now...really only affecting Scotland/NE England (and they're all used to a bit of rain!).







So no excuses for Labour...the weather is going to be fine enough for the vast bulk of the country.


----------



## Brechin Sprout (May 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> So no excuses for Labour...


I'm sure they'll find some.


----------



## Sue (May 4, 2015)

'Russell Brand has just released a video on his YouTube series the Trews in which he urges people in England to vote Labour, in a huge departure from his previous stance that voting is a waste of time.

He explains his change of heart because “the Conservative party plans to dismantle our community assets, to tear apart the very fabric of our society”.

He says his interview with Ed Miliband last week made him change his stance on the value of voting:

What I heard Ed Miliband say was that if we speak, he will listen. So on that basis we have no choice but to take decisive action to end the danger of the Conservative party.David Cameron might think I’m a joke but I don’t think there’s anything funny about what the Conservative party has been doing to this country and we have to stop them …

He then moves on to say that if you’re Scottish, you’ll probably be voting SNP; if you live in Brighton Pavilion, you should vote for Caroline Lucas; but if you’re anywhere else, you should vote Labour.'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...knife-edge-ken-clarke-warns-chaos-second-vote


----------



## DotCommunist (May 4, 2015)

how entirely predictable.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> how entirely predictable.



Yup. Cut a plastic revolutionary and he bleeds wiberal blood.


----------



## Sue (May 4, 2015)

Still,if you scroll further down in that article, you can have a good laugh at Jim Murphy.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

Nice to see the Nazis shouting down Jim Murphy. The true face of the SNSP. The only voice that will be heard is theirs.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

Sue said:


> 'Russell Brand has just released a video on his YouTube series the Trews in which he urges people in England to vote Labour, in a huge departure from his previous stance that voting is a waste of time.
> 
> He explains his change of heart because “the Conservative party plans to dismantle our community assets, to tear apart the very fabric of our society”.
> 
> ...



Saw a comment on that earlier. 'An articulate idiot is still an idiot'.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 4, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Nice to see the Nazis shouting down Jim Murphy. The true face of the SNSP. The only voice that will be heard is theirs.



I think you're a bit confused about what Nazis are Sass ...


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 4, 2015)

Meanwhile ...


----------



## Greebo (May 4, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I think you're a bit confused about what Nazis are Sass ...


Yeah well, you know how it is when people get old...


----------



## weepiper (May 4, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Nice to see the Nazis shouting down Jim Murphy. The true face of the SNSP. The only voice that will be heard is theirs.


They're not 'the SNP'.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 4, 2015)

Spent the morning trying to explain why the Tories are bad to someone at work, can't budge him from his "well I'm paying less tax" and "well they should get jobs" stance. At least don't think I can, but I did manage to make him revert to him going on about how it doesn't matter its blue or red really so maybe I can persuade of the need for voting reform at least.


----------



## andysays (May 4, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Nice to see the Nazis shouting down Jim Murphy. The true face of the SNSP. The only voice that will be heard is theirs.





Sasaferrato said:


> Saw a comment on that earlier. 'An articulate idiot is still an idiot'.



Nice bit of ironic juxtaposition


----------



## treelover (May 4, 2015)

> 'Breathtaking' surge of Tory tactical votes to save Nick Clegg in Hallam – poll





> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...tical-votes-to-save-nick-clegg-in-hallam-poll



half expecting this, wonder if the call went out in Toryland

again it could be Guardian clickbait


----------



## Plumdaff (May 4, 2015)

I'm fairly confident UKIP won't win anywhere in the Valleys, but I think they'll be a strong second in a few constituencies. Like some of the northern seats they've polled well in, Labour completely takes them for granted and doesn't improve anything and no other party bothers. Be interested to see if Leanne Woods high visibility this campaign translates to higher votes outside the Plaid heartlands. There's a lot of Plaid placards up in my spot of West Cardiff, but there's also two Welsh medium  schools within a mile so I'd imagine we're the epicentre.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 4, 2015)

You reckon UKIP might do better in reducing Labour's lead in the Valleys than Plaid, Plumdaff ?

Which bits? 

(In my non-Valleys seat -- Swansea East, 10,000 Lab majority last time -- Ukip are not too visible, Plaid working a bit harder)


----------



## treelover (May 4, 2015)

Has anyone noticed many posters in the 'poorer' parts of town?, friend says a fair few UKIP posters on estates in Barnsley, but overall here its mostly affluent areas with the signs, and there are lots and lots of them, especially in Hallam, though the Lib Dem ones don't seem to mention Clegg!


----------



## treelover (May 4, 2015)

> In a poll of 501 people just 5 people changing their intended preference gives a 1% change to the polling result. 5 people.
> So when we hear about Clegg's 7% 'surge' remember that only 35 people in this sample are meant to have changed their intended vote in his favour.
> 
> But of course there's the other glaring fault with the conclusions of this poll:-
> ...



Sharp deconstruction of the Hallam poll by commenter GRA GRA GRA on CIf.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 4, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> You reckon UKIP might do better in reducing Labour's lead in the Valleys than Plaid, Plumdaff ?
> 
> Which bits?
> 
> (In my non-Valleys seat -- Swansea East, 10,000 Lab majority last time -- Ukip are not too visible, Plaid working a bit harder)



I'm concerned that UKIPs strong showing in the Euros could translate to some second places. Plaid only came second in Cynon as far as I can tell in 2010, and although I hope there will be a strong Plaid showing, I suspect it's likely to be in Llanelli and even here in Cardiff West than Blaenau or Torfaen. I'd love to be proven wrong.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

weepiper said:


> They're not 'the SNP'.





Well. The news report on STV showed firstly, more than one man, and secondly, a number of people waving SNP logos.

There was a wee man called Schicklgrubr, who decided that he didn't like the way things were. When he started out on his campaign, a funny thing happened. People upset the meetings of other parties, but Mr Schicklgrubr of course said they were nothing to do with him.

It happened during the referendum campaign, it has happened on a number of occasions during the GE campaign.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

treelover said:


> half expecting this, wonder if the call went out in Toryland
> 
> again it could be Guardian clickbait



I suspect that Cameron hates Clegg with a passion. If it comes to the bit though, he would want Tory votes to switch to Clegg.

Power is a powerful drug, Clegg and Cameron will do anything to hang on in there.

I never thought I would see the day when I wanted a Labour win. I know, in terms of the Labour party of the past...

Oh, BTW, I came across something interesting the other day. The right to buy your Council house was in Labour's 1959 manifesto.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 4, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I suspect that Cameron hates Clegg with a passion. If it comes to the bit though, he would want Tory votes to switch to Clegg.
> 
> Power is a powerful drug, Clegg and Cameron will do anything to hang on in there.
> 
> ...


don't think it's been mentioned, but the tottenham tories lost their chairman, one justin hinchcliffe, after he encouraged tory voters in the neighbouring constituency of hornsey and wood green to vote lib dem http://www.conservativehome.com/par...rman-who-is-campaigning-for-the-lib-dems.html


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

treelover said:


> Sharp deconstruction of the Hallam poll by commenter GRA GRA GRA on CIf.



The polling companies have been remarkedly accurate over the years, as have the bookies. I think the John Major re-election caught them a bit flat-footed, IIRC,  but other than that they have been pretty good.

I take your point about extrapolating results from such a small sample.


----------



## treelover (May 4, 2015)

> Oh, BTW, I came across something interesting the other day. The right to buy your Council house was in Labour's 1959 manifesto.



wow, that's a pretty good spot, was it on a big scale and who got the proceeds?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 4, 2015)

treelover said:


> wow, that's a pretty good spot, was it on a big scale and who got the proceeds?


do you know who won the 1959 general election?

e2a: you can find the manifesto here http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man/lab59.htm


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> The polling companies have been remarkedly accurate over the years, as have the bookies. I think the John Major re-election caught them a bit flat-footed, IIRC,  but other than that they have been pretty good.
> 
> I take your point about extrapolating results from such a small sample.




The bookies have both Milliband and Cameron at 10/11 as next PM.


----------



## treelover (May 4, 2015)

> *The Conservatives have responded to reports that Labour are considering the option of forming a minority coalition with the **Liberal Democrats**. A party spokesman just sent me this:*
> 
> This confirms that if you vote Liberal Democrat, you’ll get an SNP-led Ed Miliband government. This ‘minority coalition’ would be propped up by the SNP.
> 
> You can only keep David Cameron as prime minister and get the strong, stable majority government our economy and our country



Guardian update
Bloody hell, things are all over the place, is this bollocks?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 4, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> The bookies have both Milliband and Cameron at 11/10 as next PM.


the cabinet and shadow cabinet should engage in a mass melee on horseguards with the next government formed by the group with the most survivors.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 4, 2015)

treelover said:


> Guardian update
> Bloody hell, things are all over the place, is this bollocks?


you know where the guardian shit thread is. >>>


----------



## treelover (May 4, 2015)

> Nigel Farage has welcomed the Bow Group’s backing of Ukip in marginal constituencies.
> 
> Today’s news goes to the heart of what is going on in British politics and reveals the truth that to keep Mr Miliband out of Number 10, people must vote Ukip.



very nice


----------



## Up the junction (May 4, 2015)

Is there any surprise - push comes to shove it's Tory/UKIP vs. The Rest.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

Up the junction said:


> Is there any surprise - push comes to shove it's Tory/UKIP vs. The Rest.



Are UKIP likely to get an MP?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 4, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Are UKIP likely to get an MP?


they've had two...


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> they've had two...



Aye, two defectors. I would imagine that those two constituencies will go Lib Dem or Labour. UKIP and the Blue Vermin will cannibalise each other.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

treelover said:


> Guardian update
> Bloody hell, things are all over the place, is this bollocks?



http://www.oddschecker.com/politics...lection/prime-minister-after-general-election


----------



## Dogsauce (May 4, 2015)

treelover said:


> Guardian update
> Bloody hell, things are all over the place, is this bollocks?



I'd find it amusing if there was a Tory tactical vote for the lib dens and then they teamed up with Miliband, just for how much it would cunt off the Tories that have enabled this sort of thing (they are generally having soft campaigns in lab/lib dem marginals to this effect). Clegg's hate factor would go through the roof.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 4, 2015)

Check that out properly Sasaferrato (post #1328) -- Caswell in Clacton is pretty damned likely to hold onto his.

If Reckless loses in Rochester/Strood, it's extremely unlikely to be anything other than to the Tory ...

As for Farage in Thanet ....


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 4, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Check that out properly Sasaferrato (post #1328) -- Caswell in Clacton is pretty damned likely to hold onto his.
> 
> If Reckless loses in Rochester/Strood, it's extremely unlikely to be anything other than to the Tory ...
> 
> As for Farage in Thanet ....


----------



## William of Walworth (May 4, 2015)

Wouldn't like to stab any kind of guess on Thanet!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 4, 2015)

let falange take thanet. Let his party grab enough seats to drag the tory party further rightwards in response and so rendert them unelectable outside of the heartlands for another 20 years.


----------



## rioted (May 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> let falange take thanet.


What have the people of Thanet ever done to you?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 4, 2015)

rioted said:


> What have the people of Thanet ever done to you?


A good point. Perhsps we will have to sacrifice them on the altar of pragmatism. I'm sorry, thanatites. You are a neccesary casualty in a wider war


----------



## tbtommyb (May 4, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> I'd find it amusing if there was a Tory tactical vote for the lib dens and then they teamed up with Miliband, just for how much it would cunt off the Tories that have enabled this sort of thing (they are generally having soft campaigns in lab/lib dem marginals to this effect). Clegg's hate factor would go through the roof.


i guess that's how a lot of labour supporters in tory/LD marginals feel.


----------



## brogdale (May 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> A good point. Perhsps we will have to sacrifice them on the altar of pragmatism. I'm sorry, thanatites. You are a neccesary casualty in a wider war


..but...but...they said...Waitrose might close!


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 4, 2015)

treelover said:


> wow, that's a pretty good spot, was it on a big scale and who got the proceeds?


RTB existed prior to Thatcher, just under different rules (no huge discounts and the money went back to the local authority)


----------



## treelover (May 4, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/media/20...tive-liberal-democrat-coalition-cameron-clegg

Independent backs another Tory/Lib dem coalition

I thought that new editor was a bit of a Tory

So, that's only two English newspapers backing a Labour govt, Mirror uniquiviocally, and the Guardian, with reservations.

So, that's The Sun, Express, Times, Telegraph, Mail, Independent, all supporting the Tories 


Democracy, don't you just love it


----------



## treelover (May 4, 2015)

Oh, the byline is by John Rentoul, uber blairite and smarmy git.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 4, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> The bookies have both Milliband and Cameron at 10/11 as next PM.



what, like a job share?


----------



## Celyn (May 5, 2015)

The F.T. seems to think the Tories won't be able to make a workable coalition.  http://elections.ft.com/uk/2015/projections/


----------



## Dogsauce (May 5, 2015)

Actually, a tie in the number of seats for the two main parties would be amusing in the short-term, see who gets to claim legitimacy then! They'd probably start arguing about the popular vote instead.

I've lost a bit of interest in the election over the last few days, a little resigned to it ending up as a shit sandwich no matter which way it goes, dismayed at how agendas are being set and strings pulled by powerful interests, dismayed (but not surprised) how Miliband is stumbling into every trap the press is setting. There's a crushing inevitability of the same shit carrying on come May 8th.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

Celyn said:


> The F.T. seems to think the Tories won't be able to make a workable coalition.  http://elections.ft.com/uk/2015/projections/


That's pretty much right. They ended the last parliament with 302 seats, and if they lose more than 12 of those this time around they're fucked.

Less than 290 will not be enough to get a majority with the LDs, Unionists and UKIP.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> There's a crushing inevitability of the same shit carrying on come May 8th.



I'm not so sure. Firstly there is a good chance that Lab+SNP+SDLP+PC+Green would be able to vote down a Cameron QS or, if it is constitutional, force a VoNC on day one of the new parliament. Secondly there is the barely concealed internecine warfare of the vermin's leadership contest; Cameron has to meet with the '22 on Friday and it has been reported that he's going to challenge them to back him (a two-time loser) or he'll tell Brenda to call Milibrand.

The vermin are worried shitless atm


----------



## redsquirrel (May 5, 2015)

treelover said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/media/20...tive-liberal-democrat-coalition-cameron-clegg
> 
> Independent backs another Tory/Lib dem coalition
> 
> ...


Observer went for Labour too FWIW


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 5, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I suspect that Cameron hates Clegg with a passion. If it comes to the bit though, he would want Tory votes to switch to Clegg.
> 
> Power is a powerful drug, Clegg and Cameron will do anything to hang on in there.
> 
> ...



Yes, it was. Now go and research what the 1959 manifesto commitment encompassed (not much at all), and to what extent it was similar to or the same as Right to Buy post-1979. Be warned - if you can find the manifesto it's boring and uninformative.


----------



## two sheds (May 5, 2015)

What has changed to seemingly make coalitions so much more probable, by the way? 

I seem to remember that we've always had labour and tories at about 35% each and liberals/libdems at 20% but with first past the post that's given either labour or tories a working and sometimes considerable majority. Why different now?


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

two sheds said:


> What has changed to seemingly make coalitions so much more probable, by the way?
> 
> I seem to remember that we've always had labour and tories at about 35% each and liberals/libdems at 20% but with first past the post that's given either labour or tories a working and sometimes considerable majority. Why different now?


Nope, winning party almost always had 40%+ of the vote each time


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

two sheds said:


> What has changed to seemingly make coalitions so much more probable, by the way?
> 
> I seem to remember that we've always had labour and tories at about 35% each and liberals/libdems at 20% but with first past the post that's given either labour or tories a working and sometimes considerable majority. Why different now?



It's the transition away from the 2 (and 2.5) party system that FPTP is designed for. Graphs like this one demonstrate the changes quite well:-


----------



## rioted (May 5, 2015)

two sheds said:


> I seem to remember ...


You can't be very old, then.


----------



## two sheds (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> It's the transition away from the 2 (and 2.5) party system that FPTP is designed for. Graphs like this one demonstrate the changes quite well:-
> 
> View attachment 71110



Oo, interesting image, ta, where did it come from? 

So (with JTG's comment) it's the growth of the minor parties that is pegging the main two back to 35% or so? I suppose the minor parties could be mopping up the floating voters - perhaps its largely the same people who were swayed at election time to/from labour/tory.


----------



## two sheds (May 5, 2015)

rioted said:


> You can't be very old, then.



What was the question again?


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Oo, interesting image, ta, where did it come from?



Wiki


----------



## Pickman's model (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> It's the transition away from the 2 (and 2.5) party system that FPTP is designed for. Graphs like this one demonstrate the changes quite well:-
> 
> View attachment 71110


that looks like the himalayas in the morning sun.

cf


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

Nice.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

Real headline from Telegraph 






Sneaky plot to become PM...fucking communists.


----------



## two sheds (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> It's the transition away from the 2 (and 2.5) party system that FPTP is designed for. Graphs like this one demonstrate the changes quite well:-
> 
> View attachment 71110



Isn't that chart a bit confusing? It was the Whigs rather than Liberals in the early 1800s.

From wiki on British Political Parties, the Whigs joined with some Tories to became the Liberals after 1868. The dark yellow piece on the diagram looks like the Liberal Unionist Party who merged with the tories in 1912.

So wiki reckons that today's Lib Dems are actually the Whigs people are voting for?


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Isn't that chart a bit confusing? It was the Whigs rather than Liberals in the early 1800s.
> 
> From wiki on British Political Parties, the Whigs joined with some Tories to became the Liberals after 1868. The dark yellow piece on the diagram looks like the Liberal Unionist Party who merged with the tories in 1912.
> 
> So wiki reckons that today's Lib Dems are actually the Whigs people are voting for?


Yes it is a simplified representation, but the point remains in answer to your question about what has changed over the last decades.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 5, 2015)

Out of interest, what percentage of the entire electorate does the SNP-voting proportion add up to?  Scotland is something like 8% of the UK population, so if it's 50% SNP then that's around 4% overall, is that about right?  I'm surprised it's not included separately when poll results are presented for the whole UK (could be a deliberate tactic to help deny legitimacy to their 'block').

Labour are showing as roughly level pegging with the tory vote in England & Wales, which should gain them seats here.  If Scotland sits in the labour column that ought to stop any tory government in its tracks.  If tories gain seats anywhere it's likely to be at the expense of the lib dems, so that won't help their numbers overall if they're aiming for the same coalition (but might help with this spurious 'moral case' of having the most seats of any party).

It's all a delightful mess, right now I'm tuning out a bit thinking wait and see, finding it hard to carry on worrying about it.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Out of interest, what percentage of the entire electorate does the SNP-voting proportion add up to?  Scotland is something like 8% of the UK population, so if it's 50% SNP then that's around 4% overall, is that about right?  I'm surprised it's not included separately when poll results are presented for the whole UK (could be a deliberate tactic to help deny legitimacy to their 'block').
> 
> Labour are showing as roughly level pegging with the tory vote in England & Wales, which should gain them seats here.  If Scotland sits in the labour column that ought to stop any tory government in its tracks.  If tories gain seats anywhere it's likely to be at the expense of the lib dems, so that won't help their numbers overall if they're aiming for the same coalition (but might help with this spurious 'moral case' of having the most seats of any party).
> 
> It's all a delightful mess, right now I'm tuning out a bit thinking wait and see, finding it hard to carry on worrying about it.



Yes, your maths is good. Some pollsters have included separate SNP figures at times and 4 or even 5% of the UK popular vote has been recorded.

And...yes, because of their Scots meltdown, Lab's E&W only figures have, for some time, been better than their UK polling.


----------



## belboid (May 5, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Out of interest, what percentage of the entire electorate does the SNP-voting proportion add up to?  Scotland is something like 8% of the UK population, so if it's 50% SNP then that's around 4% overall, is that about right?  I'm surprised it's not included separately when poll results are presented for the whole UK (could be a deliberate tactic to help deny legitimacy to their 'block').


yup, 4% is about right. It is becoming more common to see it included now, but its still a bit hit and miss. Before, it was barely worth mentioning, but now....it does look a bit funny 'how many MP's on such a small percentage?'  Arguably it'd look worse for the SNP if they _did _include it


----------



## Libertad (May 5, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Aye, two defectors. I would imagine that those two constituencies will go Lib Dem or Labour. UKIP and the _*Blue Vermin*_ will cannibalise each other.



Quoted for posterity.


----------



## treelover (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> It's the transition away from the 2 (and 2.5) party system that FPTP is designed for. Graphs like this one demonstrate the changes quite well:-
> 
> View attachment 71110



Does that graph indicate that the Tories have always had more of the vote than Labour, if so, the Ragged Trousered Philanthropist was always/is required reading.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

treelover said:


> Does that graph indicate that the Tories have always had more of the vote than Labour, if so, the Ragged Trousered Philanthropist was always/is required reading.


This graph affords a more accurate reading of the actuality...




The RTP remains 'required reading' irrespective.


----------



## bemused (May 5, 2015)

A minority government will be good fun to watch.


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

treelover said:


> Does that graph indicate that the Tories have always had more of the vote than Labour, if so, the Ragged Trousered Philanthropist was always/is required reading.


No it isn't, it's a terrible read


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

JTG said:


> No it isn't, it's a terrible read


Harsh.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2015)

JTG said:


> No it isn't, it's a terrible read


I've always valued it. It is long, though.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2015)

Anyway, I've been away. Has anything changed?


----------



## Smangus (May 5, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Anyway, I've been away. Has anything changed?


 
Apparently there's an election on.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 5, 2015)

Smangus said:


> Apparently there's an election on.



What we voting for?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2015)

Smangus said:


> Apparently there's an election on.


It was on when I left. But I've been walking in the hills and had no wifi. I wondered if there had been any seismic developments. (My guess is not, but you never know. My money wasn't on Charlotte for the Magic Baby).


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Anyway, I've been away. Has anything changed?


Brand's 'mind'...apparently.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Brand's 'mind'...apparently.


Someone on a social medium told me this. What a twat.


----------



## gosub (May 5, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> What we voting for?



what garnish to have with a shit sandwich


----------



## bemused (May 5, 2015)

Hopefully by the end of next week I won't be hearing the phrase 'hardworking ordinary families' again and we'll be onto the well worn 'putting difference aside to work for Britain'


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

Desperation showing....not very subtle stuff...








> *26 seats where you shouldn't vote Ukip*
> 
> Amber Valley
> Bedford
> ...



Lol


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2015)

Stroud is the whitest place in britain. Even my slow witted brother noticed it. The only time you see a non white face is when someones serving you at the garage.

It is a beautiful country landscape . Cider With Rosie country


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Stroud is the whitest place in britain. Even my slow witted brother noticed it. The only time you see a non white face is when someones serving you at the garage.



Hence the 'kipper threat to the vermin...


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 5, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yes, it was. Now go and research what the 1959 manifesto commitment encompassed (not much at all), and to what extent it was similar to or the same as Right to Buy post-1979. Be warned - if you can find the manifesto it's boring and uninformative.



It was a letter in the latest Eye. I have never read a manifesto in my puff, and never intend to. Were I to come by such a document in print, it would go with the rest of the fiction.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I'm not so sure. Firstly there is a good chance that Lab+SNP+SDLP+PC+Green would be able to vote down a Cameron QS or, if it is constitutional, force a VoNC on day one of the new parliament. Secondly there is the barely concealed internecine warfare of the vermin's leadership contest; Cameron has to meet with the '22 on Friday and it has been reported that he's going to challenge them to back him (a two-time loser) or he'll tell Brenda to call Milibrand.
> 
> The vermin are worried shitless atm



Good.

The only downside is another fucking election, with the accompanying weeks of election broadcasts etc.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 5, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> It was a letter in the latest Eye. I have never read a manifesto in my puff, and never intend to. Were I to come by such a document in print, it would go with the rest of the fiction.


As a bit of a geek, I've read a few past manifestos. It's pretty revealing, for instance, to read the Tory manifesto of 1951 and see how decidedly _socialist_ it is in its assumptions  - such as the assumption that it is a government's job to provide housing for its people. Despite dissing socialism in every other sentence, it is way to the left of today's Labour party (pretty much the opposite of what we have now, it was the Tories doing their damndest to sound more like Labour). Re-reading the Labour manifesto of 1983 reminds you just how far they have moved. There is little in that manifesto that I object to and a great deal that makes me cheer out loud.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> It's the transition away from the 2 (and 2.5) party system that FPTP is designed for. Graphs like this one demonstrate the changes quite well:-
> 
> View attachment 71110



Interesting that Labour peaked in 1945 ish. I remember my late father saying that Labour sent people out to speak to the troops awaiting demobilisation, he was in Austria at the time, promising the earth for the returning heroes. Labour won the subsequent election.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 5, 2015)

belboid said:


> And Bradford West is where George Galloway is MP, of course.  I think he'll get at least 5%


 
he seems to have hired a body double.


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

Could we not hate places for being white please? It's idiotic. Ta.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 5, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> As a bit of a geek, I've read a few past manifestos. It's pretty revealing, for instance, to read the Tory manifesto of 1951 and see how decidedly _socialist_ it is in its assumptions  - such as the assumption that it is a government's job to provide housing for its people. Despite dissing socialism in every other sentence, it is way to the left of today's Labour party (pretty much the opposite of what we have now, it was the Tories doing their damndest to sound more like Labour). Re-reading the Labour manifesto of 1983 reminds you just how far they have moved. There is little in that manifesto that I object to and a great deal that makes me cheer out loud.



Indeed. My 'affiliation' to the Conservative party was formed in the early 60s. The Conservative party of then is certainly not the Conservative party of now. The same of course is the case with the Labour party. Their is little pretence now, by either, that they actually give a fuck about the ordinary person.

For me, the day when the ethos changed from being 'elected to serve', and was replaced by 'when we gain power', was the writing on the wall.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 5, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Interesting that Labour peaked in 1945 ish. I remember my late father saying that Labour sent people out to speak to the troops awaiting demobilisation, he was in Austria at the time, promising the earth for the returning heroes. Labour won the subsequent election.


he must have been a very persuasive man


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

All the wooliest vaguest people on my facebook are posting links to things saying how voting is sooooo important (doesn't matter who for apparently) and following up by asking whether they should vote Labour, Green, Lib Dem or 'ooooh, I just don't know!'

Ffs


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

JTG said:


> Could we not hate places for being white please? It's idiotic. Ta.


Yep, but there's a significant gulf between making observations about the demography of an area and disliking those expressing the desire to maintain it in perpetuity.


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

And anyway, Stroud's going Labour anyway, UKIP have fuck all to do with it


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 5, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> he must have been a very persuasive man



As always, de-mob was too slow, and the Labour message was persuasive to a bunch of seriously disgruntled squaddies, a lot of whom were conscripted squaddies. My father was deputy Burgh Surveyor of Kilmarnock at the time of WWII, a reserved occupation, but he took the decision to join up. As he put it later, he served in Greece, Egypt, Italy, Austria, Palestine, Lebanon and Libya, and would never have seen these countries otherwise. He started in the Corps of Royal Engineers, then transferred to the Royal Signals, working in cipher.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yep, but there's a significant gulf between making observations about the demography of an area and disliking those expressing the desire to maintain it in perpetuity.



I didn't encounter a single non-white pupil in the schools I attended until I was 14, then in Lochaber High, a school of over 900 pupils at the time, there were three Asian lads. Previously I had been at school in the Outer Hebrides.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I didn't encounter a single non-white pupil in the schools I attended until I was 14, then in Lochaber High, a school of over 900 pupils at the time, there were three Asian lads. Previously I had been at school in the Outer Hebrides.


How have you managed to overcome your provincialism?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2015)

JTG said:


> Could we not hate places for being white please? It's idiotic. Ta.


who is doing this? I like stroud. I've eaten many a pub lunch there with my nan (she's lived there forever), seen the nearby barrowdowns, read laurrie lee etc. My ginger mate lives in a village outside stroud. Brimscombe or something.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> who is doing this? I like stroud. I've eaten many a pub lunch there with my nan (she's lived there forever), seen the nearby barrowdowns, read laurrie lee etc. My ginger mate lives in a village outside stroud. Brimscombe or something.


hater


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> who is doing this? I like stroud. I've eaten many a pub lunch there with my nan (she's lived there forever), seen the nearby barrowdowns, read laurrie lee etc. My ginger mate lives in a village outside stroud. Brimscombe or something.


Yeah, yeah "some of my best friends are ginger".  Heard it all.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> How have you managed to overcome your provincialism?



I haven't really. Where I live now is at least 90% white. We have more Poles than black or brown people.

We lived in Woolwich for 18 months when I was in the army, that is the only time I've lived in an area with a significant non-white population.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Yeah, yeah "some of my best friends are ginger".  Heard it all.



"*I went to Stroud and met a ginger man..."  *


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 5, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Yeah, yeah "some of my best friends are ginger".  Heard it all.



Live in Scotland and nearly all of your best friends will be 'ginger'. We have cornered the market. 

By the way, WTF do people have against ginger hair?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> "*I went to Stroud and met a ginger man..."  *



He'd been in the ginger game 50 years, man and boy


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Live in Scotland and nearly all of your best friends will be 'ginger'. We have cornered the market.
> 
> By the way, WTF do people have against ginger hair?


It's Saxon racism.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> He'd been in the ginger game 50 years, man and boy


Joined the Navy when he was 10?


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> who is doing this? I like stroud. I've eaten many a pub lunch there with my nan (she's lived there forever), seen the nearby barrowdowns, read laurrie lee etc. My ginger mate lives in a village outside stroud. Brimscombe or something.


Are you claiming your "ginger mate" as another example of your own multicultural qualities.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It's Saxon racism.


or Jutish. 

Fucking picts.


----------



## agricola (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> or Jutish.
> 
> Fucking picts.



an odd Angle to take, etc etc


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2015)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Are you claiming your "ginger mate" as another example of your own multicultural qualities.


its not how he self defines but its how I always remember him.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 5, 2015)

agricola said:


> an odd Angle to take, etc etc


Ouch!


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

agricola said:


> an odd Angle to take, etc etc


Romano over 'ere...taking our jobs...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2015)

a great stain on the family honour when uncle nick was tory candidate for wooton under edge (Cllr. Although checking with ma he apparently resides in Dursley so who knows. Irrelevant anyway, he is dead to me).


----------



## pesh (May 5, 2015)

Schoolboy asks Clegg if he could have Katie Hopkins killed 
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/7206870


----------



## redcogs (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> He'd been in the ginger game 50 years, man and boy



Don't forget Lenin was a ginger person comrade!

If it was good enough for Vlad, it should be good enough for anyone.


----------



## JimW (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Brimscombe or something.


 Brimscombe and Thrupp is one local football side, a village that sounds like an STD.
But as JTG says, Stroud looks well set to go back Labour, the formerLab MP standing again and has a personal following, only done just by the national swing last time. Current Tory is a complete shop dummy.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2015)

Pretty desperate


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Pretty desperate



"  *or possibly someone who once was blind, but can now see?"*


----------



## Dogsauce (May 5, 2015)

Can we bombard that link with so much spam that they can't find any genuine stories?  Or send false claims and have their photographer drive off to Swindon or wherever to meet a fictional business owner?


----------



## AnnaKarpik (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Stroud is the whitest place in britain. Even my slow witted brother noticed it. The only time you see a non white face is when someones serving you at the garage.
> 
> It is a beautiful country landscape . Cider With Rosie country



Have you been to Herefordshire?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2015)

AnnaKarpik said:


> Have you been to Herefordshire?


does it have a boathouse


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

Constitutional boffin Vernon Bogdanor of Kings College says there are no rules for what happens if/when we have a hung parliament, a snap election and another hung parliament. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c14fd4ae-f31e-11e4-b98f-00144feab7de.html#axzz3ZHIzczmb



> The commentators unanimously predict a hung parliament after Thursday’s general election. What happens next? Whatever the political uncertainties, the constitutional rules are clear. They are laid out in the Cabinet Manual, published by the Cabinet Office in 2010, and designed to ensure both that the Queen’s government is carried on and that the Queen herself is not involved in the process.
> 
> The new parliament meets on May 18. Its first substantive business on May 27 is the Queen’s Speech, in effect a vote of confidence in the government’s programme. The key issue, then, is not which is the largest party — but which party commands the support of the Commons.
> 
> ...


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Constitutional boffin Vernon Bogdanor of Kings College says there are no rules for what happens if/when we have a hung parliament, a snap election and another hung parliament. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c14fd4ae-f31e-11e4-b98f-00144feab7de.html#axzz3ZHIzczmb


Bogdanor explains quite clearly what constitutional 'rules' _do exist_ for a hung/fractured parliament.


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

Your reading skills aren't improving.


----------



## AnnaKarpik (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> does it have a boathouse



Oi ent never seen none.


----------



## andysays (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Constitutional boffin Vernon Bogdanor of Kings College says there are no rules for what happens if/when we have a hung parliament, a snap election and another hung parliament. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c14fd4ae-f31e-11e4-b98f-00144feab7de.html#axzz3ZHIzczmb



I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, or the basis on which you're trying to make it.

As far as I can make out, the rules for forming a government after an imagined second election following the failure of any party or parties to form a government would be exactly the same as those after the first - i.e. a prospective PM has to get a QS through a vote in parliament.


----------



## treelover (May 5, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Interesting that Labour peaked in 1945 ish. I remember my late father saying that Labour sent people out to speak to the troops awaiting demobilisation, he was in Austria at the time, *promising the earth for the returning heroes*. Labour won the subsequent election.




In many ways, not all, they got it.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Your reading skills aren't improving.


Probably due to getting older.


----------



## treelover (May 5, 2015)

> Revealed: coalition proposals to cut welfare for sick, poor, young and disabled
> 
> *Exclusive: *‘Extremely controversial’ ideas by civil servants include benefit freeze and making it harder for sick people to claim state aid, leaked papers show
> A list of “very, highly or extremely controversial” potential cuts to benefits have been drawn up by civil servants in response to warnings that the next government would struggle to keep welfare spending below a legal cap of about £120bn a year.
> ...



maybe expected, but still horrendous,


----------



## treelover (May 5, 2015)

> Making it harder for sick people to claim state aid when they are out of work by introducing “stricter” fit-for-work tests and/or tighter limits on eligibility.



How could they be stricter?


----------



## shifting gears (May 5, 2015)

Evening Scumdard come out for the Tories

Once a Tory rag....

Interesting choice of phrase though:

"Consider what is best for our Capital"

Yeah.... We know which "Capital" you mean


----------



## treelover (May 5, 2015)

The oligarchs know where their bread is buttered.


----------



## redcogs (May 5, 2015)

i've a solution to the constitutional problem - but it involves a group of like minds (with appropriate equipment) entering the house of 'commons' to wage class war by promptly arresting all therein, and announcing that henceforth all shall expend their energies in the service of all the people.  

Once the parliamentary cretins have recognised that  "the poorest hee that is in England hath a life to live, as the greatest hee", then some consideration might be given to releasing one or two, but under the strict condition that they obtain shelf filling and aisle sweeping jobs in the newly collectivised food industry (formerly tescos)..


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

I usually pick up a Standard at Brixton tube but there's so much propaganda in it today I had to go back and return it. The
'vendor' was puzzled.


----------



## co-op (May 5, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> View attachment 71140
> 
> Evening Scumdard come out for the Tories
> 
> ...





Ain't gonna work though; London's swing to Labour has been huge in the past 5 years. Traditionally the ES is really for out-of-town commuters so maybe this is an attack on the Lib-Dem suburbs?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Stroud is the whitest place in britain. Even my slow witted brother noticed it. The only time you see a non white face is when someones serving you at the garage.
> 
> It is a beautiful country landscape . Cider With Rosie country


Stroud is not a UKIP stronghold though - its full of old hippies (and strong for the Green Party) and also some rich old tories. Labour are going to win the seat back there regardless - the local former Labour/Co-op MP David Drew is still popular and many locals think the current Tory incumbent (Neil Carmichael) is a useless publicity-hungry twat (which he is.) It's just a Labour/Tory marginal. Desperate stuff from the Torygraph.


----------



## JimW (May 5, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Stroud is not a UKIP stronghold though - and i Its full of old hippies (and strong for the Green Party) and also some rich old tories. Labour are going to win the seat back there regardless - the local former Labour/Co-op MP David Drew is still popular and many locals think the current Tory incumbent (Neil Carmichael) is a useless publicity-hungry twat (which he is.) It's just a Labour/Tory marginal. Desperate stuff from the Torygraph.


Mind I was chatting to an old bloke after swimming today and mentioned watching FGR which got on to Dave Drew (he's on the board) and the old bloke says lovely fellow and I admitted I actually registered to vote so I could vote for him (Carmichael out really) and it was all going swimmingly (so to speak) then he actually says "Enoch Powell was right.." which I thought only happened in satire.


----------



## butchersapron (May 5, 2015)

JimW said:


> Mind I was chatting to an old bloke after swimming today and mentioned watching FGR which got on to Dave Drew (he's on the board) and the old bloke says lovely fellow and I admitted I actually registered to vote so I could vote for him (Carmichael out really) and it was all going swimmingly (so to speak) then he actually says "Enoch Powell was right.." which I thought only happened in satire.


That's the meningitis. Still wreaking havoc.


----------



## killer b (May 5, 2015)

it's just mirror image of the 'OMG don't vote Green or TUSC or whoever or you'll let the tories back in' schtick we've been hearing off labour supporters since forever.


----------



## BigMoaner (May 5, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Can we bombard that link with so much spam that they can't find any genuine stories?  Or send false claims and have their photographer drive off to Swindon or wherever to meet a fictional business owner?


or just send a picture of ones own cock and bollocks.


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

andysays said:


> I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, or the basis on which you're trying to make it.
> 
> As far as I can make out, the rules for forming a government after an imagined second election following the failure of any party or parties to form a government would be exactly the same as those after the first - i.e. a prospective PM has to get a QS through a vote in parliament.



Well, it wasn't me who wrote the article. The point is that under the present rules we might not have a workable government after the second election. It doesn't need to be spelled out that this would be a disaster. So we need extra rules to break the cycle.


----------



## BigMoaner (May 5, 2015)

ive got a horrible feeling the greens are going to get into power.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Well, it wasn't me who wrote the article. The point is that under the present rules we might not have a workable government after the second election. It doesn't need to be spelled out that this would be a disaster. So we need extra rules to break the cycle.


Can you quote where Bogdanor says these things that you claim he has.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 5, 2015)

Delia Smith yesterday. Justine Miliband today. Labour's celebrity endorsement email campaign has worked its way down to the underside of the barrel.


----------



## andysays (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Well, it wasn't me who wrote the article. The point is that under the present rules *we might not have a workable government after the second election*. It doesn't need to be spelled out that this would be a disaster. So we need extra rules to break the cycle.



I don't think the article was making the point about rules you originally suggested, but let's focus on this new point about outcomes here.

There is nothing to guarantee that we would have a workable government after a second election, except the desires of various parties to form one if they can. The biggest obstacle to a workable government of some sort being formed after Thursday's election seems to me to be the various statements party leaders have made saying that they won't do deals or even speak to anyone else.

If we do get to the stage of another election being necessary, I suspect we will see a far greater willingness among at least some of them to actually talk to each other and do some sort of deal, even if that deal doesn't involve a formal coalition which commands a majority.

New rules may be drawn up after that to operate in future, but the next government will have to be formed under the rules we have ATM.

Edited slightly for clarity...


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

The article says "there is no reason to believe that a second election would yield a notably different outcome." And it's not about what the parties may or may not try to do - it's about the need for rules to avoid the country having no government for a dangerously long period.


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

JimW said:


> Mind I was chatting to an old bloke after swimming today and mentioned watching FGR which got on to Dave Drew (he's on the board) and the old bloke says lovely fellow and I admitted I actually registered to vote so I could vote for him (Carmichael out really) and it was all going swimmingly (so to speak) then he actually says "Enoch Powell was right.." which I thought only happened in satire.


You hate foreigners up there anyway. Look at how you tried to exclude honest hard-working Bristolians from the area last week. Disgraceful


----------



## andysays (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> The article says "there is no reason to believe that a second election would yield a notably different outcome." And it's not about what the parties may or may not try to do - it's about the need for rules to avoid the country having no government for a dangerously long period.



The different outcome refers to numbers of MPs each party will get, not what happens after that when forming a government.

Before making jibes about other people's reading, you really should make sure you have correctly read, understood and are using the article to support whatever point it is you're making...


----------



## JimW (May 5, 2015)

JTG said:


> You hate foreigners up there anyway. Look at how you tried to exclude honest hard-working Bristolians from the area last week. Disgraceful


It's our well known opposition to the slave trade, we even have a big arch proclaiming the fact. And we generously refused to play anything resembling football against you once you did arrive.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2015)

JTG said:


> All the wooliest vaguest people on my facebook are posting links to things saying how voting is sooooo important (doesn't matter who for apparently) and following up by asking whether they should vote Labour, Green, Lib Dem or 'ooooh, I just don't know!'
> 
> Ffs


I had a bit of a row with an old mate the other day when I said I was probably gonna vote for the spunking cock party. "But Hatter, _people died_ for the vote, you of all people should be voting, you _have_ to vote!"  Who should I vote for? "Anyone! Just use your vote!" 

I pointed out that I also had the right not to vote and that forcing me to vote for someone I didn't agree with sounded like the worst kind of fascism (which millions had also died fighting) but he didn't seem to understand. Clever guy, but doesn't get it.


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

JimW said:


> It's our well known opposition to the slave trade, we even have a big arch proclaiming the fact. And we generously refused to play anything resembling football against you once you did arrive.


I must have missed your big arch. Never mind, I'm seeing a bigger one a week on Sunday


----------



## JimW (May 5, 2015)

JTG said:


> I must have missed your big arch. Never mind, I'm seeing a bigger one a week on Sunday


You can have a look (it's up by Archway School, big surprise) when you come back again next year with your tails between your legs


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

andysays said:


> The different outcome refers to numbers of MPs each party will get, not what happens after that when forming a government.
> 
> Before making jibes about other people's reading, you really should make sure you have correctly read, understood and are using the article to support whatever point it is you're making...


Sorry, we'll have to agree to differ.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> The article says "there is no reason to believe that a second election would yield a notably different outcome." And it's not about what the parties may or may not try to do - it's about the need for rules to avoid the country having no government for a dangerously long period.


But David, even if the parties all won exactly the same numbers of MPs as in the previous election, there is no reason not to suppose that they might behave differently to produce an administration that might command the confidence of the house.


----------



## butchersapron (May 5, 2015)

Who died for my right to vote?

The newport chartists? The petrloo chartists? What else did they demand that you chest-prodders want but are a wee bit quiet on?


----------



## andysays (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Sorry, we'll have to agree to differ.



I'm happy to agree to differ, but I'm still unclear on exactly what point you're seeking to make and why you think Bogdanor's article supports that point.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2015)

JTG said:


> I must have missed your big arch.


It's outside my old school


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> But David, even if the parties all won exactly the same numbers of MPs as in the previous election, there is no reason not to suppose that they might behave differently to produce an administration that might command the confidence of the house.


It's about constitutional rules, which need to cater for all the different things the parties may or may not do.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Who died for my right to vote?
> 
> The newport chartists? The petrloo chartists? What else did they demand that you chest-prodders want but are a wee bit quiet on?


I thought he might have been on about Emily Davison, but he really doesn't have a clue so I wouldn't be surprised if he was just parroting stuff from the BBC or the Lib dem website or something.


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

andysays said:


> I'm happy to agree to differ, but I'm still unclear on exactly what point you're seeking to make and why you think Bogdanor's article supports that point.


Bogdanor explained it, you didn't get it, so I explained what he was getting at. I wasn't making a separate point of my own.


----------



## butchersapron (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> It's about constitutional rules, which need to cater for all the different things the parties may or may not do.


Existing rules?


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

The limitations of existing rules, hence the need for new ones.


----------



## Quartz (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Bogdanor explained it, you didn't get it, so I explained what he was getting at. I wasn't making a separate point of my own.



You know, we could just be sensible and only deal with that problem if it arises...


----------



## butchersapron (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> The limitations of existing rules, hence the need for new ones.


So the existing rules for any short-medium-term elections -  and a potential change of rules _after _a govt is elected under the existing rules (after all, who else could change the existing rules?).


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> It's about constitutional rules, which need to cater for all the different things the parties may or may not do.


Aside from musing about the longevity of our majoritarian electoral system, Bogdanor does not explicitly refer to any constitutional changes. He does, however, speculate that repeated fractured parliaments deriving from a transition to a genuine multi-party system, may necessitate a re-write of the cabinet manual.


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

Quartz said:


> You know, we could just be sensible and only deal with that problem if it arises...


We certainly could! There's no compulsion to read the article or comment on it. I find it interesting, but most people are focused on Thursday, not Christmas.


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

JimW said:


> You can have a look (it's up by Archway School, big surprise) when you come back again next year with your tails between your legs


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> We certainly could! There's no compulsion to read the article or comment on it. I find it interesting, but most people are focused on Thursday, not Christmas.


Oh, that's it...you've fallen for Clegg's tactical line!


----------



## andysays (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Bogdanor explained it, you didn't get it, so I explained what he was getting at. I wasn't making a separate point of my own.



First you claimed that Bogdanor said there were no rules for forming a govt after a second election, then you changed that to say there are rules, but they are inadequete and must be changed because there is a possibility that we won't get a workable government, and then you qualfied that by saying that the possible delay in forming a government would be dangerous, claiming all the while that the article you quoted backed all of this up.

I hope Vernon Bogdanor isn't reading this, because he'll be pretty pissed off at seeing his authority used to defend a series of shifting and bogus claims.


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> So the existing rules for any short-medium-term elections -  and a potential change of rules _after _a govt is elected under the existing rules (after all, who else could change the existing rules?).


I have no idea. Dunno what he envisages, apart from the potential for chaos. Clegg was trying to capitalise on it today, trying to make himself relevant by saying that no coalition can survive past Christmas without his help.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2015)

"chaos"


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

andysays said:


> First you claimed that Bogdanor said there were no rules for forming a govt after a second election, then you changed that to say there are rules, but they are inadequete and must be changed because there is a possibility that we won't get a workable government, and then you qualfied that by saying that the possible delay in forming a government would be dangerous, claiming all the while that the article you quoted backed all of this up.
> 
> I hope Vernon Bogdanor isn't reading this, because he'll be pretty pissed off at seeing his authority used to defend a series of shifting and bogus claims.


No, what I did was assume that everyone would twig the bit that Bogdanor thought too obvious to spell out. Why not go to the FT comments and express how confused you are?


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> "chaos"


Like, they may not be able to pass any laws or anything


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2015)

the dead will lie unburied in the street


----------



## andysays (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> No, what I did was assume that everyone would twig the bit that Bogdanor thought too obvious to spell out. Why not go to the FT comments and express how confused you are?





David Clapson said:


> Sorry, we'll have to agree to differ.


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

Financial chaos maybe. The markets hate instability.


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> the dead will lie unburied in the street


And then they shall rise and demand that you use the vote they sacrificed themselves for


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Financial chaos maybe. The markets hate instability.


Won't somebody think of the markets?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2015)

(((the markets)))


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

"The markets" don't hate anything btw. They don't have emotions. They're not people.

Sorry to be obvious but you know...


----------



## redsquirrel (May 5, 2015)

bemused said:


> A minority government will be good fun to watch.


No it won't it'll be the same bollocks as usual. With the adding wankery of whichever party gets to govern being accused of being illegitimate by the opposition.


----------



## Quartz (May 5, 2015)

By the way, how do the laws about General Elections restrict what we can say in this and other threads on Thursday?


----------



## alsoknownas (May 5, 2015)

Quartz said:


> By the way, how do the laws about General Elections restrict what we can say in this and other threads on Thursday?


If you say Fuck da toriez you have to list all the other candidates too.


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2015)

Quartz said:


> By the way, how do the laws about General Elections restrict what we can say in this and other threads on Thursday?


What?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2015)

Quartz said:


> By the way, how do the laws about General Elections restrict what we can say in this and other threads on Thursday?


You have to draw a spunking cock in every post


----------



## belboid (May 5, 2015)

Quartz said:


> By the way, how do the laws about General Elections restrict what we can say in this and other threads on Thursday?


we can't reveal any exit polls we've carried out


----------



## killer b (May 5, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> You have to draw a spunking cock in every post


does this work?

……………………„„-~^^~„-„„_
………………„-^*'' : : „'' : : : : *-„
…………..„-* : : :„„--/ : : : : : : : '\
…………./ : : „-* . .| : : : : : : : : '|
……….../ : „-* . . . | : : : : : : : : |
………...\„-* . . . . .| : : : : : : : :'|
……….../ . . . . . . '| : : : : : : : :|
……..../ . . . . . . . .'\ : : : : : : : |
……../ . . . . . . . . . .\ : : : : : : :|
……./ . . . . . . . . . . . '\ : : : : : /
….../ . . . . . . . . . . . . . *-„„„„-*'
….'/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . '|
…/ . . . . . . . ./ . . . . . . .|
../ . . . . . . . .'/ . . . . . . .'|
./ . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . .'|
'/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .'|
'| . . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . .|
'| . . . . . . \„_^- „ . . . . .'|
'| . . . . . . . . .'\ .\ ./ '/ . |
| .\ . . . . . . . . . \ .'' / . '|
| . . . . . . . . . . / .'/ . . .|
| . . . . . . .| . . / ./ ./ . .|


----------



## killer b (May 5, 2015)

belboid said:


> we can't reveal any exit polls we've carried out


does this mean (in theory) that any 'which way did you vote' poll on urban shouldn't show it's results til after the polls close?


----------



## David Clapson (May 5, 2015)

killer b said:


> does this work?
> 
> ……………………„„-~^^~„-„„_
> ………………„-^*'' : : „'' : : : : *-„
> ...



Looks like a bunny or a puppy with floppy ears


----------



## jakethesnake (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Looks like a bunny or a puppy with floppy ears


It reminds me strangely of Boris Johnson.


----------



## gosub (May 5, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> It reminds me strangely of Boris Johnson.


Are there no ends to his sexual conquests


----------



## jakethesnake (May 5, 2015)

gosub said:


> Are there no ends to his sexual conquests


----------



## treelover (May 5, 2015)

If Farage doesn't win Thanet he says he will resign as leader, would this mean UKIP's vote would collapse, and in a second election, where would its vote fall?


----------



## Quartz (May 5, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> You have to draw a spunking cock in every post



How about a mewling quim?


----------



## JTG (May 5, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Looks like a bunny or a puppy with floppy ears


That's what your mum said


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2015)

killer b said:


> does this work?
> 
> ……………………„„-~^^~„-„„_
> ………………„-^*'' : : „'' : : : : *-„
> ...


Not bad….but there is no spunk….


----------



## Orang Utan (May 5, 2015)

killer b said:


> does this work?
> 
> ……………………„„-~^^~„-„„_
> ………………„-^*'' : : „'' : : : : *-„
> ...


Looks like an ashamed womble.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 5, 2015)

I'm hoping there won't be a need for me to stick this on my Facebook come Friday. It'd probably mean falling out with a few relatives and the odd ex-workmate.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 5, 2015)

Quartz said:


> By the way, how do the laws about General Elections restrict what we can say in this and other threads on Thursday?



Just don't publish any surveys from the Quartz-verse, and you'll be fine,


----------



## Sue (May 5, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> the dead will lie unburied in the street


Holding the country to ransom.


----------



## treelover (May 5, 2015)

Haven't got a link yet, but the Mirror is reporting that Major has attacked Cameron on a number of areas, including "not doing enough for the poor".


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 5, 2015)

Here's the front page of the largest selling newspaper in the country the day before an election.

 

I wonder if they'd have gone with this if Ed had eaten a beefburger?


----------



## Fez909 (May 5, 2015)

I don't get the bacon thing...it's really, really strange. It's got its own Wikipedia page:




			
				wiki said:
			
		

> In May 2014, Ed Miliband, leader of the British Labour Party, was photographed awkwardly eating a bacon sandwich whilst campaigning. The image became an Internet meme, and has been referred to by British media when other campaigning politicians are pictured eating meat sandwiches. While *some have seen the photograph as evidence that Miliband is out of touch with the British public*, others have perceived it as part of a campaign against him.




The entire article reads like satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband_bacon_sandwich_photograph


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 5, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> I don't get the bacon thing...it's really, really strange. It's got its own Wikipedia page:



I really, really hope it's not because Ed has a Jewish background.


----------



## Fez909 (May 5, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I really, really hope it's not because Ed has a Jewish background.


I did wonder about that, but it's never mentioned, even online. I know the papers would never hightlight this, even if it was the real reason, but idiots online are not afraid of saying/doing racist shit.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 5, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> I did wonder about that, but it's never mentioned, even online. I know the papers would never hightlight this, even if it was the real reason, but idiots online are not afraid of saying/doing racist shit.


It prompted many a waggish Photoshop:


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2015)

I knew The SUN would run with that, its still in the gutter despite its new 'hip' managing editor, 'Stig' Abell


----------



## Wilf (May 6, 2015)

Tories + Libs + DUP, just about going to be enough isn't it?


----------



## Fez909 (May 6, 2015)

nope!

Tories

277 - Con
027 - Lib
008 - Dup
------------
312 - Total

Labour + left(ish)

267 - Lab
052 - SNP
004 - Plaid
001 - Green
-------------
324 - Total

Enough Lab+others to vote down the Tories' QS, then Milliband is PM.

I suppose UKIP would vote with the Tories, too, even though they won't be in the coalition. But their 2 seats or whatever won't save the QS.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 6, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> nope!
> 
> Tories
> 
> ...


----------



## Fez909 (May 6, 2015)

Hocus Eye. 
You missed your message


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 6, 2015)

It was interesting tonight on the BBC news programmes to see Cameron in a right panic trying to rally his support. To me he seems to have "lost it" in the sense of his self control. I hope that is also true in the political sense. It would bring much hope to the UK to see the end of the Tories. The LibDems are gone anyway so nothing to look for there.

Sorry Fez I don't know what happened there. I didn't mean to just copy your post without a comment.


----------



## stupid kid (May 6, 2015)

Quartz said:


> By the way, how do the laws about General Elections restrict what we can say in this and other threads on Thursday?


When voters come into Urban75 to vote, posters cannot hassle or otherwise make overtures towards them. A policeman will be attending to every thread.


----------



## killer b (May 6, 2015)

treelover said:


> I knew The SUN would run with that, its still in the gutter despite its new 'hip' managing editor, 'Stig' Abell


Why is stig abell 'hip'?


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 6, 2015)

Anthony Wells has an excellent analysis of the election battle grounds with some informative tables. http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9377

And he predicts - 





> As it is though, my personal best guess is Conservatives around 277 seats, Labour around 267, the Lib Dems around 29 and the SNP around 52



the whole thing is tighter than a gnats chuff and small factors like labours supposed advantage on the ground and/or the rainfall in pudsey or thurrock could make a decisive difference. Most extraordinary election since 1945 - a wide range of probably outcomes and everything on a knife edge.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 6, 2015)

Papers gone radio rental again this morn. Sun leads with a re hash of the fateful bacon sandwich and Mail dog whistles by describing Red Ed as a 'class war *zealot*'

Rothemeres body may be dead but his spirit has lost none of its potentcy


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Papers gone radio rental again this morn. Sun leads with a re hash of the fateful bacon sandwich and Mail dog whistles by describing Red Ed as a 'class war *zealot*'
> 
> Rothemeres body may be dead but his spirit has lost none of its potentcy



His body is not dead, even if he has no soul to damn.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

Doesn't really feel like living in a democracy when friends (and views) of the government dominate the media output so much. Got to hope it's screaming because it's dying.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 6, 2015)

Jeff Robinson said:


> His body is not dead, even if he has no soul to damn.


And with strange aeons even death may die.


----------



## chilango (May 6, 2015)

Heard my first anti-SNP views down here, finally.

However, they've come from a source that is desperately looking for excuses to vote Conservative. 

...fortunately said voter(s) are also desperately looking for excuses to justify not being arsed to get round to the Polling Station.


----------



## mk12 (May 6, 2015)

I'm tempted to bet on a Lab-Lib minority government. Is that likely?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 6, 2015)

mk12 said:


> I'm tempted to bet on a Lab-Lib minority government. Is that likely?


Been murmurings about it, though a lot of it is probably Blairite shite. Personally I don't think it's likely, the LDs clearly prefer the Tories but I wouldn't completely rule it out we all know the LDs will do anything for power.


----------



## Quartz (May 6, 2015)

Let me check my tin-foil hat a moment...

How about a short-term Lib-Lab-Con coalition with Clegg as PM (Cameron & Miliband not being acceptable to each other) to enact electoral reform to reduce the influence of the SNP by introducing Approval Voting? And abolishing the regional assemblies and transferring their powers and responsibilities to the locally elected Westminster MPs?


----------



## Quartz (May 6, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> we all know the LDs will do anything for power.



I think you can say that about most of the parties.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Been murmurings about it, though a lot of it is probably Blairite shite. Personally I don't think it's likely, the LDs clearly prefer the Tories but I wouldn't completely rule it out we all know the LDs will do anything for power.



It's useful to spread those rumours so that vermin that are thinking of tactically voting for them are discouraged.  Clegg is reasonably likely to keep his seat due to tactical tory voting.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 6, 2015)

I suspect Ed will do a 180 when he needs the SNP.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

Nightmare scenario is second election (although I'm not sure that is possible) then mobilisation of tactical tory votes where UKIP/libdem came close second to pick up enough seats for some blue-purple-yellow mess of a coalition.  The doors would probably fall off that alliance pretty quickly.


----------



## Quartz (May 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Nightmare scenario is second election



Labour did well in the second election of 1974 so I'm not sure why it should be a nightmare. Other than having to go through the process again, of course.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 6, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Labour did well in the second election of 1974 so I'm not sure why it should be a nightmare. Other than having to go through the process again, of course.



Not as much the nightmare of voting again, but more so the build up of the re-election for however many months.


----------



## krink (May 6, 2015)

chilango said:


> Heard my first anti-SNP views down here



same here from two probable labour voters (Labour as tradition rather than political). it was general anti-jock prejudice - something i don't get when up here in the north east of england we practically are jocks!


----------



## brogdale (May 6, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Labour did well in the second election of 1974 so I'm not sure why it should be a nightmare. Other than having to go through the process again, of course.


2% swing leaving them as a minority administration....not that well, then?


----------



## belboid (May 6, 2015)

brogdale said:


> 2% swing leaving them as a minority administration....not that well, then?


Majority - even if only of two.  It became a minority government, but not until...77?


----------



## brogdale (May 6, 2015)

belboid said:


> Majority - even if only of two.  It became a minority government, but not until...77?


Apologies; yes I was wrong. Their 319 represented a majority of 4 based on the, then, 634 seat parliament.

My bad.


----------



## frogwoman (May 6, 2015)

> revealed: coalition proposals to cut welfare for sick, poor, young and disabled
> 
> *Exclusive: *‘Extremely controversial’ ideas by civil servants include benefit freeze and making it harder for sick people to claim state aid, leaked papers show
> A list of “very, highly or extremely controversial” potential cuts to benefits have been drawn up by civil servants in response to warnings that the next government would struggle to keep welfare spending below a legal cap of about £120bn a year.
> ...



Wtf??? Theres no way they could get away with introducing this is there? treelover


----------



## belboid (May 6, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Wtf??? Theres no way they could get away with introducing this is there? treelover


easy peasy. Reducing under 25s access to benefits has been going on for ages, and as for SMP - they mean removing the government 'subsidy' and leaving it entirely to employers to pay.  There would still be a payment made to pregnant women/new mothers, but it wouldnt be from the state (or would be, but at a drastically reduced rate)


----------



## Wilf (May 6, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> nope!
> 
> Tories
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know the figures. I've been keeping an eye on the polls and the way they map onto seats (a most imperfect process even under normal circs, but even more so with ukip and green votes as they are).  I'm left with not much more than a feeling in me water. Labour have been so uninspiring and provided so little by way of an inspiring message that I'm guessing some of their vote or, just as important' turnout, is flaky.  I just get a sense the Tory vote will be higher than in the polls. But we'll see.

If I'm right and if con+yellow scum+dup is close to the winning post, that means lab + snp doesn't do it.  Miliband's only way in is Lab + Lib coalition + snp passive support. I suspect clegg prefers the former.  This is all little more than pessimism (not that there's much to be optimistic about if Lab get in), just have a feeling the lack of buzz about Labour leaves them vulnerable.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 6, 2015)

mk12 said:


> I'm tempted to bet on a Lab-Lib minority government. Is that likely?



It would be a neat solution to the "legitimacy" issue of a minority Labour government with the Conservatives having more seats and a higher share of the popular vote.

I say issue, it's not really given that it's pretty well established by now that we don't vote for the prime minister or cabinet positions, we vote for an assembly of constituency MPs from which the cabinet is formed.  Legitimacy doesn't come into it either, if one possible government doesn't command the confidence of said MP collective and one does.  Solution isn't the right word either, since it's a fudge to make numbers add up.  Not really neat either, given it's a bunch of twats joining forces with another bunch of different but the same twats.

So it's not really a neat solution to the "legitimacy" issue of a minority Labour government with the Conservatives having more seats and a higher share of the popular vote.  Could happen.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 6, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Labour did well in the second election of 1974 so I'm not sure why it should be a nightmare. Other than having to go through the process again, of course.


Because that was 40 odd years ago in a very different political landscape both internally and ex.


----------



## Quartz (May 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Because that was 40 odd years ago in a very different political landscape both internally and ex.



True, but to automatically classify a second election as a bad thing is simply wrong.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (May 6, 2015)

mk12 said:


> I'm tempted to bet on a Lab-Lib minority government. Is that likely?


It will considerably more likely if nick clegg loses Sheffield Hallam tomorrow night.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

Apparently a Times journalist interviewed on the wireless has just said  "Everybody is waiting on the result of the election before they commit to buying a house because of the prospect of a mansion tax".

Everybody?!!


----------



## two sheds (May 6, 2015)

I wonder whether this time again we'll have many people when asked by pollsters how they're going to vote saying 'Labour', going into the polling booth and ticking 'Conservative', then coming out and when asked how they voted saying 'Labour'.


----------



## frogwoman (May 6, 2015)




----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

King Biscuit Time said:


> It will considerably more likely if nick clegg loses Sheffield Hallam tomorrow night.



Decapitate the party and see which way it falls.  I'm guessing it would still probably go to the right.


----------



## teqniq (May 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Apparently a Times journalist interviewed on the wireless has just said  "Everybody is waiting on the result of the election before they commit to buying a house because of the prospect of a mansion tax".
> 
> Everybody?!!



What fucking planet do some of these cunts live on?


----------



## frogwoman (May 6, 2015)

I *really* hope clegg loses his seat.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

teqniq said:


> What fucking planet do some of these cunts live on?



Same one as the Evening Standard writers at a guess.


----------



## Wilf (May 6, 2015)

two sheds said:


> I wonder whether this time again we'll have many people when asked by pollsters how they're going to vote saying 'Labour', going into the polling booth and ticking 'Conservative', then coming out and when asked how they voted saying 'Labour'.


I think there will be a bit of that - along with Labour voters not coming out to vote.


----------



## belboid (May 6, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> I *really* hope clegg loses his seat.


Sadly, he looks like being kept in place thanks to a collapse in tory votes


----------



## frogwoman (May 6, 2015)

Predictions for lefty parties then?


----------



## frogwoman (May 6, 2015)

belboid said:


> Sadly, he looks like being kept in place thanks to a collapse in tory votes


----------



## teqniq (May 6, 2015)

belboid said:


> Sadly, he looks like being kept in place thanks to a collapse in tory votes



'Breathtaking' surge of Tory tactical votes to save Nick Clegg in Hallam


----------



## Pickman's model (May 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Apparently a Times journalist interviewed on the wireless has just said  "Everybody is waiting on the result of the election before they commit to buying a house because of the prospect of a mansion tax".
> 
> Everybody?!!


i certainly am because i think the price of mansions may tumble if lots of people start selling them. i'm not paying £9m now when they might be going for a mere £2m in a few weeks time. and maybe even at a price to which i might aspire


----------



## King Biscuit Time (May 6, 2015)

That's a shit poll though. Allocating DKs buy 2010 voting is bound to be worth a few percent for Clegg. Not saying that he will lose his seat mind, its just more likely than that poll suggests.


----------



## YouSir (May 6, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Predictions for lefty parties then?



A landslide victory for TUSC when the ghost of Bob Crow appears towering above Deptford and calls the faithful to action.


----------



## teqniq (May 6, 2015)

King Biscuit Time said:


> That's a shit poll though. Allocating DKs buy 2010 voting is bound to be worth a few percent for Clegg. Not saying that he will lose his seat mind, its just more likely than that poll suggests.


I was wondering if it was a bit of wish-fullfillment on the part of the Graun....


----------



## 8ball (May 6, 2015)

two sheds said:


> I wonder whether this time again we'll have many people when asked by pollsters how they're going to vote saying 'Labour', going into the polling booth and ticking 'Conservative', then coming out and when asked how they voted saying 'Labour'.


 
If anyone on here sees a pollster, tell them you've just voted UKIP - should be good for a giggle when the results come in.


----------



## belboid (May 6, 2015)

King Biscuit Time said:


> That's a shit poll though. Allocating DKs buy 2010 voting is bound to be worth a few percent for Clegg. Not saying that he will lose his seat mind, its just more likely than that poll suggests.


It's not shit, it's a perfectly valid way of doing it. Experience shows that by and large the dont knows do go back to their previous vote, and there is good reason to believe their may well be a 'shy Clegg' factor.  It'll probably be closer than that last poll suggests, but i think the shit will scrape it.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (May 6, 2015)

Clearly no point falling out as we seem to agree on the outcome and would both like to see him out on his are, but you can't day that the 2015 dks are the same people as the 2010 dks, and you certainly wouldn't expect them to break as 2010 when labour weren't campaigning and Clegg mania was at its tedious height.


----------



## belboid (May 6, 2015)

that's not what it's saying tho. They're asking todays DK's how they voted in 2010, and assuming that they (or rather, a significant proportion of them) will go back to how they voted before. I did suspect that a lot of them know full well how they are going to vote, but are embarrassed to say so.

Hopefully, I'm talking utter bollocks tho.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 6, 2015)

Did anyone post this already? http://principalfish.co.uk/election2015/


----------



## brogdale (May 6, 2015)

...and again today. If only those Labour plotters had managed to keep the GE secret.


----------



## Stay Beautiful (May 6, 2015)

brogdale said:


> ...and again today. If only those Labour plotters had managed to keep the GE secret.



Where would we be without the Telegraph undercovering these dastardly plots!?


----------



## Up the junction (May 6, 2015)

So I'm calling it ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ):

A Labour/Lib Dem coalition, with the Krankies doing whatever but abstaining/supporting on key votes (for fear of implicitly supporting the Etonians). 

I thang yew.


----------



## two sheds (May 6, 2015)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/general-election-2015-jeremy-hunt-5640463



> *General Election 2015: Jeremy Hunt could lose seat to GP after bookies slash odds on top doctor *
> 
> A doctor is the bookies’ favourite to unseat Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt with a Lib Dem chief urging party supporters to back her.
> 
> ...



Oooooo I wish . I'm not sure the Mirror has quite got to grips with the phrase "bookies’ favourite", though, and they go on ...



> Mr Hunt is still the overwhelming favourite to retain his seat, with odds of 1/50 offered by bookies Paddy Power.


----------



## killer b (May 6, 2015)

_favourite to unseat_


----------



## two sheds (May 6, 2015)

Aha - in that case I'm not sure I've quite got to grips with joined up writing yet.


----------



## bemused (May 6, 2015)

I wonder if Ed Balls will lose his seat http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/morleyandoutwood/

Insufferable smug git he is I'm ashamed to say I'd draw mild amusement seeing him ashen-faced faced on stage.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

The tories had a decapitation strategy last time, targeting his seat very hard, and didn't come close, so no chance this time.  They'll also be haemorrhaging votes to UKIP as there's a strong far-right vote in that area (Morley once had a BNP councillor and they're big on St Georges Day).

Balls just comes across as one of those oafish grammar school boys who are full of themselves, I don't know why he's considered an asset.  In another life he'd be running an estate agency or in a low-level management role bullying staff in a call centre.


----------



## Quartz (May 6, 2015)




----------



## brogdale (May 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> The tories had a decapitation strategy last time, targeting his seat very hard, and didn't come close, so no chance this time.  They'll also be haemorrhaging votes to UKIP as there's a strong far-right vote in that area (Morley once had a BNP councillor and they're big on St Georges Day).
> 
> Balls just comes across as one of those oafish grammar school boys who are full of themselves, I don't know why he's considered an asset.  In another life he'd be running an estate agency or in a low-level management role bullying staff in a call centre.


Public school-boy, actually.


----------



## brogdale (May 6, 2015)

Quartz said:


>


Technically incorrect. Not employed on contract, but elected to 'serve'. Hate bookies anyway...parasitic scum.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Public school-boy, actually.



Most grammar schools are private up this way ('day schools').  I've met 'young entrepreneur' types from them and they're generally in the mould of blokeish chummy and overconfident twats that remind me of Balls/Jamie Oliver, somehow more clueless than the proper posh boarding school types who have some self-awareness.  Don't know why that is.


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2015)

Doesn't the Telegraph pride itself on being a highbrow paper?

btw, the image, they are not members of the public, they are labour students, this elections seems to be one of the most controlled for a long time.


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2015)

brogdale said:


> ...and again today. If only those Labour plotters had managed to keep the GE secret.



Can someone inform us what the Duncan Smith/McVile story is on the sidebar?


----------



## brogdale (May 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Most grammar schools are private up this way ('day schools').  I've met 'young entrepreneur' types from them and they're generally in the mould of blokeish chummy and overconfident twats that remind me of Balls/Jamie Oliver, somehow more clueless than the proper posh boarding school types who have some self-awareness.  Don't know why that is.


Only in name, and _Nottingham High School _obviously doesn't. Grammar schools were (and still are in some places) the academically 'selective' tier of the post '44 tripartite state secondary system. It is true that when faced with the process of comprehensive transition many became fee-paying and retained the title, but to my mind it's more appropriate to refer to their alumni as public school boys/girls as the prime form of selection in such places is the size of their parents' bank accounts rather than any notion of IQ.


----------



## belboid (May 6, 2015)

treelover said:


> Can someone inform us what the Duncan Smith/McVile story is on the sidebar?


the 'corrosive and sexist campaign' to dump McV - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...must-be-thinking-Would-I-want-this-abuse.html


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2015)

How many seats will UKIP get?

I want to put some money on, and the deal is under two or three or more.... I'm tempted to go two or less...... any thoughts?


----------



## belboid (May 6, 2015)

B0B2oo9 said:


> How many seats will UKIP get?
> 
> I want to put some money on, and the deal is under two or three or more.... I'm tempted to go two or less...... any thoughts?


It's three tops, imo. I wouldn't have thought you'd get great odds on two or less, as it seems far and away the most likely result


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2015)

less than 2.5 5/6
more than 2.5 5/6

not great odds, but got £50 in my account to spunk.


----------



## belboid (May 6, 2015)

better odds betting against Farage winning his. Tho, technically, it might be worth putting money on him, so you'll be pleased whatever the outcome


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 6, 2015)

B0B2oo9 said:


> How many seats will UKIP get?
> 
> I want to put some money on, and the deal is under two or three or more.... I'm tempted to go two or less...... any thoughts?


1 would be my guess (Clacton). With Thurrock as a possible second. I think it's unlikely they'll take South Thanet if they're not even polling ahead of the Tories at this point.


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2015)

went for less than 2.5 

wish me luck!


----------



## stupid kid (May 6, 2015)

brogdale said:


> ...and again today. If only those Labour plotters had managed to keep the GE secret.



If they're only pouring over the rulebook now, then they're pretty fucking lazy. 

Surely, in the event of a Labour + SNP majority commons, he just needs to threaten to vote against the queen's speech and that'll basically force Cameron to resign?


----------



## JimW (May 6, 2015)

Local paper out today and noticed we have some independent I'd not spotted previously standing for the Free Public Transport Party. Other polices were drug legalisation and a citizen's wage (and he's a sober-looking middle aged type, not obviously local hippy constituency, looking up this in the local paper he seems all right, closing lots of prisons too: http://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co....ort_Party_candidate_for_Stroud_David_Michael/). Also some social media activist type knob standing as a YourStroudMP, think he means to vote as instructed in a mini-poll on each issue or some such bollocks.


----------



## rekil (May 6, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Public school-boy, actually.


And his brother is "head of European Operations at the bond and investment firm PIMCO". That's handy.


----------



## David Clapson (May 6, 2015)

Intriguing theory in the Torygraph - the Lib Dem MPs who survive will be from the left of the party. They'll support a Labour minority govt but not a Tory one. Labour are accepting that Clegg decapitation won't work and isn't desirable  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...eron-from-Downing-Street-by-Friday-night.html



> The _Telegraph_ also understands that Labour has pulled extra resources from trying to defeat Nick Clegg in Sheffield Hallam and “decapitate” the Lib Dems.
> 
> Labour strategists now accept that Mr Clegg’s political career looks likely to be saved from a combination of an estimated £200,000 spent on campaigning in the seat in recent weeks, and Tory supporters voting tactically to help Mr Clegg.
> 
> ...


----------



## stupid kid (May 6, 2015)

So I did some pouring over the rules this morning, and here they are



> Parliaments with no overall majority in the House of Commons 2.12 Where an election does not result in an overall majority for a single party, the incumbent government remains in office unless and until the Prime Minister tenders his or her resignation and the Government’s resignation to the Sovereign. An incumbent government is entitled to wait until the new Parliament has met to see if it can command the confidence of the House of Commons, but is expected to 14 Chapter Two resign if it becomes clear that it is unlikely to be able to command that confidence and there is a clear alternative.
> 
> 2.13 Where a range of different administrations could potentially be formed, political parties may wish to hold discussions to establish who is best able to command the confidence of the House of Commons and should form the next government. The Sovereign would not expect to become involved in any negotiations, although there are responsibilities on those involved in the process to keep the Palace informed. This could be done by political parties or the Cabinet Secretary. The Principal Private Secretary to the Prime Minister may also have a role, for example, in communicating with the Palace.



https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf
(page 14 of the document as marked, 21 on my PDF reader)


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

If Clegg survives he'll be a continuing liability to the lib dems.  I'm surprised pragmatic lib dem supporters aren't voting against him in his own constituency for the sake of the party.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 6, 2015)

JimW said:


> Local paper out today and noticed we have some independent I'd not spotted previously standing for the Free Public Transport Party. Other polices were drug legalisation and a citizen's wage (and he's a sober-looking middle aged type, not obviously local hippy constituency, looking up this in the local paper he seems all right, closing lots of prisons too: http://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co....ort_Party_candidate_for_Stroud_David_Michael/). Also some social media activist type knob standing as a YourStroudMP, think he means to vote as instructed in a mini-poll on each issue or some such bollocks.



That David Michael seems sound from his interview.


----------



## brogdale (May 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> If Clegg survives he'll be a continuing liability to the lib dems.  I'm surprised pragmatic lib dem supporters aren't voting against him in his own constituency for the sake of the party.


I really thought the last word of that last sentence was going to be _humanity!_


----------



## David Clapson (May 6, 2015)

Gus O'Donnell's got his ban hammer ready:

“I’ll be in London at various studios trying to ensure that those interpretations that come out of the exit poll at one minute past 10 are actually in line with what’s in the Cabinet Manual, and people aren’t saying: ‘Oh well, I think I’ve got a chance because I got this number of seats or whatever’.”

“One thing I should say about the cabinet manual. People keep saying it is my cabinet manual. It is the government’s Cabinet Manual. It is the cabinet’s Cabinet Manual in particular, and the preface is there signed by the prime minister, David Cameron.”

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...argest-party-does-not-automatically-become-pm


----------



## Fez909 (May 6, 2015)

brogdale said:


> ...and again today. If only those Labour plotters had managed to keep the GE secret.



This is gonna end up all GoT soon, warring factions and completing claims to the title. Ned Milliband, King in the North and Salmond is the King Beyond the Wall. Hopefully Cameron gets his face ripped off by a dragon.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 6, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Gus O'Donnell's got his ban hammer ready:
> 
> “I’ll be in London at various studios trying to ensure that those interpretations that come out of the exit poll at one minute past 10 are actually in line with what’s in the Cabinet Manual, and people aren’t saying: ‘Oh well, I think I’ve got a chance because I got this number of seats or whatever’.”
> 
> ...



Hopefully the word of GOD carries some weight here.


----------



## Quartz (May 6, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> Hopefully Cameron gets his face ripped off by a dragon.



Brenda?


----------



## King Biscuit Time (May 6, 2015)

belboid said:


> that's not what it's saying tho. They're asking todays DK's how they voted in 2010, and assuming that they (or rather, a significant proportion of them) will go back to how they voted before. I did suspect that a lot of them know full well how they are going to vote, but are embarrassed to say so.
> 
> Hopefully, I'm talking utter bollocks tho.



Yeah sorry - you're right - it's assuming 2015's DKs vote for who they claim to have voted for last time. Not even sure who the DKs would be here. Diehard Clegg haters would know I suppose.

Regarding Clegg and Farage  - there's an interesting market on William Hill (and elsewhere I suppose) on the next party leader to announce he is standing down.

Clegg - Evs
Cameron - 3/1
Farage - 4/1
Milliband - 5/1

That's a pretty good price for Farage isn't it? Given that Thanet isn't nailed on. Even if he loses SH - Clegg wouldn't announce he's standing down until Friday would he?


----------



## JTG (May 6, 2015)

Hartlepool United have basically come out for Tories/UKIP

http://www.hartlepoolunited.co.uk//news/article/dont-forget-to-vote-on-thursday-2444381.aspx


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

JTG said:


> Hartlepool United have basically come out for Tories/UKIP
> 
> http://www.hartlepoolunited.co.uk//news/article/dont-forget-to-vote-on-thursday-2444381.aspx



I presume the dig they're having at the Labour MP is to do with Ched Evans. No contrition then, the dicks.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> the dead will lie unburied in the street



Dogs will have sex with cats in the street, and evangelical Christians will develop a sense of self-effacement that will prevent them testifying unto me.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Apparently a Times journalist interviewed on the wireless has just said  "Everybody is waiting on the result of the election before they commit to buying a house because of the prospect of a mansion tax".
> 
> Everybody?!!



It's well-known that when the pustulent buboes on humanity known as "journalists" say "everyone", they mean "all the chaps I was at (insert name of public school) with, and all the chaps and chappesses I was at Oxbridge with". Us "lower orders don't exist.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2015)

teqniq said:


> What fucking planet do some of these cunts live on?



Mongo.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2015)

treelover said:


> Doesn't the Telegraph pride itself on being a highbrow paper?
> 
> btw, the image, they are not members of the public, they are labour students, this elections seems to be one of the most controlled for a long time.



The _Telegraph_ ceased to be a "highbrow" paper in anyone's perception when Charles Moore left. Since then they tend to seek the lowest common denominator on every story they actually publish, while avoiding publishing anything controversial about their advertisers.


----------



## newharper (May 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Apparently a Times journalist interviewed on the wireless has just said  "Everybody is waiting on the result of the election before they commit to buying a house because of the prospect of a mansion tax".
> 
> Everybody?!!



You expect a Murdoch employee to voice an off message opinion? Not a good career move.


----------



## bemused (May 6, 2015)

I listened to a Labour dude explain the Mansion Tax on LBC last night, it was comical. For a start they are using 15 year old valuations and when asked how they avoid taxing people who happen to live in a house worth £2 million put aren't a millionaires they said anyone earning below £32k could pay it when they either died or when they sold it - so good news if you earn £30k you're almost classed as super rich. It also accounts for less than 1% of their spending pledges. 

Vince Cables idea seemed a lot more sensible in what the tax goes up the more the house is worth, so if you live in a £50m house you pay more, the only objection the Labour Party seemed to have with that scheme is that  they didn't think of it first.

If you are going to tax million pound houses it does make sense do it more progressively as the LibDems suggest, that at least sounds like it's workable to some extent.

I'm never going to live in a house that expensive so don't really care either way. But, the whole policy shows the bullshit approach all these partys take when coming up with policies - make is sound good and hope people don't look closer. Cameron is the same with his promise to pass a law saying he won't put up some taxes. Wankers all.


----------



## brogdale (May 6, 2015)

Late numbers not great reading for the vermin...


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 6, 2015)

Not sure i can take the next 24 hours - the stress is going to kill me. 
Im shitting myself about the exit poll - its usually an accurate  indicator of whats going to happen (i think it was spot on in 2010) - if it shows a 2-3% tory lead it could be a long and depressing night. 


The polls look like cameron is out - but .... but ....


----------



## Quartz (May 6, 2015)

bemused said:


> But, the whole policy shows the bullshit approach all these partys take when coming up with policies - make is sound good and hope people don't look closer. Cameron is the same with his promise to pass a law saying he won't put up some taxes. Wankers all.



Spot on.


----------



## mk12 (May 6, 2015)

A 2-3% Tory lead wouldn't give them a majority though (would it?). Who would they be able to form a coalition with?


----------



## Fez909 (May 6, 2015)

I hope Labour don't get a majority, or even the most seats, but still form a coalition government. The frothing will be so sweet.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 6, 2015)

mk12 said:


> A 2-3% Tory lead wouldn't give them a majority though (would it?). Who would they be able to form a coalition with?



No - but it could be enough to team up with the lib dems do the coalition again. 

Trying to be look at all the info objectively, im pretty sure the tories will be out of power. 
But if labour have more than 15 seats less than the tories, they are going to get some serious shit from the r/wing media and the tories  about the 'legitimacy' of their government. Seamus milnes looks at that here -  http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...macy-democratic-ed-miliband-government-labour 



> If Cameron fails to form a government, the political and media establishment will pull out every stop to prevent Miliband becoming prime minister. It won’t just be a wall of noise about “legitimacy” and chaos. Already some rightwing Labour figures are being primed to try a mini-coup of their own, echoing the Tory claim that the second largest party shouldn’t lead a government. _*If Cameron and Clegg come close to a majority, a handful of Labour defections could even take them over the line*_.



The bit in bold italics sent a shiver down my spine. 

IT could all get very messy. 

Im hopeful that labour could get more seats than the tories - and there is decent chance of that - the more recent polls have converged around a dead heat - from a position where some polls were putting the tories a few points ahead, so the direction towards labour. Also there is evidence that the 'dont knows' are breaking more towards labour.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 6, 2015)

A friend of mine who's a nurse just posted this on Facebook: 



> Today I had to apologise to one of the politest, sweetest, and quietest labouring mothers that I have ever met.
> 
> She had been contracting for over 24h and I was not able to put in an epidural for her due to a shortage of midwives.
> 
> ...


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2015)

> The Labour Party should enter into a coalition with the Liberal Democrats so that Labour can rein in the worst excesses of the Liberal Democrats.



posted elsewhere


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2015)

Quartz said:


>



bit of hubris there, photo-shop,

I remember 92.


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2015)

belboid said:


> the 'corrosive and sexist campaign' to dump McV - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11584479/Esther-McVey-The-girls-leafleting-for-me-must-be-thinking-Would-I-want-this-abuse.html



thanks


----------



## redsquirrel (May 6, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> No - but it could be enough to team up with the lib dems do the coalition again.
> 
> Trying to be look at all the info objectively, im pretty sure the tories will be out of power.
> But if labour have more than 15 seats less than the tories, they are going to get some serious shit from the r/wing media and the tories  about the 'legitimacy' of their government. Seamus milnes looks at that here -  http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...macy-democratic-ed-miliband-government-labour


Those r/w Labour pricks would fucking love a Lib-Lab minority coalition, the vermin. Too fucking blinkered to see that that would damn them even more north of the border and only help the Greens.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Hopefully at least one of these will have no seat on Friday and both out of Govt.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

copliker said:


> And his brother is "head of European Operations at the bond and investment firm PIMCO". That's handy.



Pimco reported a massive loss recently


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> If Clegg survives he'll be a continuing liability to the lib dems.  I'm surprised pragmatic lib dem supporters aren't voting against him in his own constituency for the sake of the party.




What about Cable, tuition fees and Post Office privatisation.


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

two sheds said:


> I wonder whether this time again we'll have many people when asked by pollsters how they're going to vote saying 'Labour', going into the polling booth and ticking 'Conservative', then coming out and when asked how they voted saying 'Labour'.


As I think happened in a fairly recent referendum


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

> Please Guardian forgive me for entering a comment that has nothing to do with this subject (or has it?). I am a Daily Telegraph commenter and I pay for that privilege. For the last few days I find that I have not been allowed to comment an anything to do with the General Election although other subjects have been allowed comments from me. I can still comment on sports, cultural activities but not politics. Now I feel that I am not the only one subject to this centure. I think all those commenters whose views are to the left have deliberately been excluded from airing their views. I have made the point quite frequently
> in my comments that the owners of DT, the Barclay brothers, live on a very small channel island and therefore, quite legimately, do not pay UK tax on the profits made by the sale of the Daily Telegraph to UK citizens and of course the advertising revenue. Quite legitimate
> and quite immoral. It's the truth and the truth hurts.



Interesting comment on CIF if true.


----------



## DownwardDog (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> Hartlepool United have basically come out for Tories/UKIP
> 
> http://www.hartlepoolunited.co.uk//news/article/dont-forget-to-vote-on-thursday-2444381.aspx



Even Peter Mandelson knew it was important to pretend to support Hartlepool Utd when he was MP. He once lied in an interview that if his house was on fire and he could only save one thing it would be his Hartlepool Utd scarf.

Labour are also feeling the effects of scandal prone and incompetent Labour council in the town. The mayor and leader of the council both binned their wives to enter into a civil partnership with each other which has raised greying eyebrows among the more socially conservative Labour voters.


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

King Biscuit Time said:


> Yeah sorry - you're right - it's assuming 2015's DKs vote for who they claim to have voted for last time. Not even sure who the DKs would be here. Diehard Clegg haters would know I suppose.
> 
> Regarding Clegg and Farage  - there's an interesting market on William Hill (and elsewhere I suppose) on the next party leader to announce he is standing down.
> 
> ...


That seems ludicrously good. Gotta be worth a go


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> Hartlepool United have basically come out for Tories/UKIP
> 
> http://www.hartlepoolunited.co.uk//news/article/dont-forget-to-vote-on-thursday-2444381.aspx


Yet another reason to hate the fuckers


----------



## J Ed (May 7, 2015)

Even though I do not think it's the likely scenario I feel absolutely sick at the thought of the Tories forming another government, not sure how I am going to get through the work day without snapping at vermin at work.


----------



## chilango (May 7, 2015)

Surely the only way the Tories can stay in power is if Labour decide to let them? 

As in, won't join an SNP et al move to "no confidence" a Tory minority's QS or similar?

I'm not ruling this out. I suspect that there are those in the LP that think this is a wise strategic move.

...but it could be the death of them.

Interesting times.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 7, 2015)

If the polls are exactly right, and they may well not be.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 7, 2015)

I look forward to the pasokification of what remains of the Labour party, and the rise of something more useful


----------



## bi0boy (May 7, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> If the polls are exactly right, and they may well not be.



They have never been right in any election.

I reckon they are underestimating the Tories by 2.5%+


----------



## tbtommyb (May 7, 2015)

eurgh my facebook feed is already full of bollocks.



> To friends and allies on the Left, I urge you to consider the importance of voting Labour - especially in marginal seats. Voting for smaller parties in these seats may sit well with your conscience, but it will ultimately make it easier for David Cameron to form another Tory-led government. Voting for a smaller party is a privilege available to those who are cushioned from cuts by their salary and social status. It is the privilege of those who can personally afford another five years of Tory cuts. What about those who can't? Labour is the only party which will be able to make a real difference for those people. Labour is the only party which will be able to form a progressive government.



although notable that i haven't seen anyone actually 'backing' labour, the line is always that they're more receptive to campaigns (a la Owen Jones) or that they can form a progressive government, as above. no-one seems to be backing them on the basis of having good policies.

also, this is interesting from Irvine Welsh.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> eurgh my facebook feed is already full of bollocks.



I'm as personally irritated by sanctimonious "progressive" voters trying to guilt-trip others into voting Because Suffragettes or Fought And Died as I am anything else about this whole sorry charade.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Still don't know what to do, though; spoil paper, vote TUSC, stay at home. Tories and Labour pretty close (majority <5000) but I'm pretty sure I can't vote Labour and what difference will it make, in the end.


----------



## bi0boy (May 7, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Still don't know what to do, though; spoil paper, vote TUSC, stay at home. Tories and Labour pretty close (majority <5000) but I'm pretty sure I can't vote Labour and what difference will it make, in the end.



What difference does anything make in the end


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> What difference does anything make in the end



Oh, LOADS of things. But that's for another thread, I think. 
Sigh. Got an essay to write today, too, so if I actually ever start the bugger I might just be too in the zone to go (polling station is a good four minutes on foot).


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 7, 2015)

I'm going for Milliband doing a reversal and taking the SNP and Green Party with him. Even with some margin for error I can't see the Tories forming a government, just not enough love from the opposition parties.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 7, 2015)

S☼I said:


> I'm as personally irritated by sanctimonious "progressive" voters trying to guilt-trip others into voting Because Suffragettes or Fought And Died as I am anything else about this whole sorry charade.



Too right. "If you dont vote you dont have a say". Drives me nuts people who say that. I try to explain, but invariably they don't. Anyone got a good one line answer to that?


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> Too right. "If you dont vote you dont have a say". Drives me nuts people who say that. I try to explain, but invariably they don't. Anyone got a good one line answer to that?



If you do vote you don't get a say?

#makeuthimk


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> Too right. "If you dont vote you dont have a say". Drives me nuts people who say that. I try to explain, but invariably they don't. Anyone got a good one line answer to that?



'Fuck off!' is quite a good one.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Had a loon on the ballot paper here (cannabis is safer than alcohol). Haven't seen them mentioned anywhere previously and no idea they were standing.


----------



## frogwoman (May 7, 2015)

There are some right loons standing in oxford east.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)




----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

made some daft stuff for #VoteSpunkingCock 



(I'll post the rest in bandwidthz if anyone wants a look)


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Had a loon on the ballot paper here (cannabis is safer than alcohol). Haven't seen them mentioned anywhere previously and no idea they were standing.



To be fair I expect right now they're lying down.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Had a loon on the ballot paper here (cannabis is safer than alcohol). Haven't seen them mentioned anywhere previously and no idea they were standing.


i imagine they're lounging on a sofa getting the munchies even as we speak.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

S☼I said:


> To be fair I expect right now they're lying down.





Pickman's model said:


> i imagine they're lounging on a sofa getting the munchies even as we speak.


brilliant minds...


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> brilliant minds...



Half right


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Half right


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

I was ranting this morning about none of the parties even bothering to knock on the door and talk to me when my wife gently pointed out we have a sign on there saying "No unsolicited canvassers, traders" etc


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

S☼I said:


> I was ranting this morning about none of the parties even bothering to knock on the door and talk to me when my wife gently pointed out we have a sign on there saying "No unsolicited canvassers, traders" etc


the only canvassers we had - & i use the term in its loosest sense - were from labour and all they did was knock on the door and run off after putting a leaflet through the post bit.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 7, 2015)

krink said:


> made some daft stuff for #VoteSpunkingCock
> 
> View attachment 71206
> 
> (I'll post the rest in bandwidthz if anyone wants a look)



Go for it, as an aside we should try to get #spunkingcock trending


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the only canvassers we had - & i use the term in its loosest sense - were from labour and all they did was knock on the door and run off after putting a leaflet through the post bit.



I shall be very disappointed if, should I be bothered to go round the corner and vote, there is no party representative to be surly with


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

Have been informed there is a guy standing in Michael Dugher's seat of Barnsley East called Billy Marsden for Vapers in Power, fighting for the rights of Vapers and pork pie consumers!
Always one.


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

If you formed a "spunking cock" party, would spoiled ballots, drawn in the traditional style, count towards your vote share? 

"Vote spunking cock!" Could be a winner. And there's free cake


----------



## Stay Beautiful (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> Hartlepool United have basically come out for Tories/UKIP
> 
> http://www.hartlepoolunited.co.uk//news/article/dont-forget-to-vote-on-thursday-2444381.aspx



If only the Tory candidate had a monkey suit!


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

The polling station at the Royal Artillery Museum in Greenwich. 

 
(pic from Journodave on Twitter)


----------



## Libertad (May 7, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Have been informed there is a guy standing in Michael Dugher's seat of Barnsley East called Billy Marsden for Vapers in Power, fighting for the rights of Vapers and pork pie consumers!
> Always one.



There's a vaper ticket in Bristol Kingswood as well.


----------



## bi0boy (May 7, 2015)

Heavy showers moving in across the country now, I wonder how that will affect the vote.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> They have never been right in any election.
> 
> I reckon they are underestimating the Tories by 2.5%+


What rubbish. It's true that any individual eve of election poll has not got it spot on but that's a ridiculous standard to have. 

The aggregate record of polling companies these days is pretty good. I mean just considering this last parliament - Scottish Indy, EU election results, Welsh Assembly, Scottish Parliament, if you'd followed the polls you'd have got the general result correct more time than not.


----------



## bi0boy (May 7, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> What rubbish. It's true that any individual eve of election poll has not got it spot on but that's a ridiculous standard to have.
> 
> The aggregate record of polling companies these days is pretty good. I mean just considering this last parliament - Scottish Indy, EU election results, Welsh Assembly, Scottish Parliament, if you'd followed the polls you'd have got the general result correct more time than not.



They are always a few percent out. Sometimes that doesn't affect the "general result" much. Sometimes it does.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Friend in Nottingham had a kipper outside giving out leaflets, which is illegal, isn't it?  The polling station staff had words and he fucked off.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> They are always a few percent out. Sometimes that doesn't affect the "general result" much. Sometimes it does.


OK which results has polling "got it wrong" this parliament?


----------



## bi0boy (May 7, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> OK which results has polling "got it wrong" this parliament?



I am talking about the % vote share. When have the polls ever got it right? In 2010 they overestimated the libdems and understated lab and con. In almost every other GE they have understated con by some margin. In the EUs they overstated UKIP.


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> I am talking about the % vote share. When have the polls ever got it right? In 2010 they overestimated the libdems and understated lab and con. In almost every other GE they have understated con by some margin. In the EUs they overstated UKIP.


*ICM Guardian:* Con -1; Lab -2: LD +3

*ComRes/ITV/Independent:* Con 0; Lab -2: LD +5

*Angus Reid/PB:* Con -1; Lab -6; LD +6

*Populus/Times:* Con 0; Lab -2; LD +4

*YouGov/Sun:* Con -2; Lab -2; LD +5

*Harris/Daily Mail:* Con -2; Lab -1; LD +4

*MORI/London Evening Standard: *Con -1; Lab -1; LD +4 

Not too bad there, IMO. The LibDems obviously way out but Labour and Con within 2% in all but one.


----------



## ska invita (May 7, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Heavy showers moving in across the country now, I wonder how that will affect the vote.


will give the commentators something to fill some air time with


----------



## bi0boy (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> *ICM Guardian:* Con -1; Lab -2: LD +3
> 
> *ComRes/ITV/Independent:* Con 0; Lab -2: LD +5
> 
> ...



Exactly - the LibDems were way out. That might be why it's the only GE where Con weren't way out. What is striking is all the pollsters made the same mistake, as they usually do.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Even though I do not think it's the likely scenario I feel absolutely sick at the thought of the Tories forming another government, not sure how I am going to get through the work day without snapping at vermin at work.



I remember 1992, I just sat in a field absolutely stunned.


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Exactly - the LibDems were way out. That might be why it's the only GE where Con weren't way out. What is striking is all the pollsters made the same mistake, as they usually do.


Sorry, but it's not an exact science. Those results are pretty good, IMO. Also, you are wrong about them overstating UKIP in the Euro elections. The last 5 polls had UKIP on: 27, 27, 32, 32, 27 and their final vote share was 27. Three of them were spot on and the average was +2%. Again, good.


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2015)

this is required reading for what happens next


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

From the Guardian:



> *Asked if there were a general election tomorrow, which party would you vote for?*
> (The interviews were carried out of 5 and 6 May. We will have to assume that if people were asked today how they would vote in a general election tomorrow, the responses might be more blunt.)


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Heavy showers moving in across the country now, I wonder how that will affect the vote.



quite seriously affect the 'progressive' vote imo, in past elections, when I was outside the count, if it was sunny, more people who one could say, usually didn't vote, would turn up.


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

> Nick Clegg tastes like pickled onions, elastic bands, a meatless lamb leg and a dribble of yoghurt


http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...eron-farage-the-synaesthesia-vote-in-pictures

**


----------



## ChrisD (May 7, 2015)

I'm out for the count tonight... first time for 26 years !   Now I'm in my late 50's how do I stay awake 10 pm to 4 am whilst in the company of numerous "respectable" establishment types.   Beginning to wish I'd opted to snooze in front of the TV.... any ideas?


----------



## The Boy (May 7, 2015)

ChrisD said:


> I'm out for the count tonight... first time for 26 years !   Now I'm in my late 50's how do I stay awake 10 pm to 4 am whilst in the company of numerous "respectable" establishment types.   Beginning to wish I'd opted to snooze in front of the TV.... any ideas?




cheap speed. sorted/


----------



## camouflage (May 7, 2015)

Voted. And not for the party that gave us the war-criminal Tony Blair either (NEVER!)


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

camouflage said:


> Voted. And not for the party that gave us the war-criminal Tony Blair either (NEVER!)


green ink? is this an clue as to where your vote went? to the scabby malthusians? or have you just lost all sanity and become a green inker


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

> This is the moment at which the “hidden keys” theory would be seen to be correct, or wrong. Would the Queen refuse to appoint Ed Miliband if he had no deal with another party showing his command of a majority? Would the Queen make him wait until he’d done such a deal? Would she allow or require Cameron to carry on regardless? Let’s see what monarchs have done in the past.



I'm not sure the legitimacy even of our beloved Elizabeth is as strong as it was in 1924, people wouldn't be happy if she interfered.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> scabby malthusians



Zing!


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> green ink? is this an clue as to where your vote went? to the scabby malthusians? or have you just lost all sanity and become a green inker



Camo-farage


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

ChrisD said:


> I'm out for the count tonight... first time for 26 years !   Now I'm in my late 50's how do I stay awake 10 pm to 4 am whilst in the company of numerous "respectable" establishment types.



Forfeits?


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Someone up thread, posted the possibility of Blairites crossing the floor, giving Scameron his majority, how likely is this?


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Camo-farage



That's dreadful!


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Someone up thread, posted the possibility of Blairites crossing the floor, giving Scameron his majority, how likely is this?


Won't happen.


----------



## spring-peeper (May 7, 2015)

From the CBC ->



> With so many questions looming, here are the issues likely to shape today's result and its aftermath:
> 
> 1. A Scottish surge
> 
> ...



http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/u-k-votes-2015-5-things-to-watch-for-in-today-s-election-1.3063772


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Forfeits?


we're all forfeiting the next five years


----------



## sim667 (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> The polling station at the Royal Artillery Museum in Greenwich.
> 
> View attachment 71216
> (pic from Journodave on Twitter)



i didn't even know there was an artillery museum


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

just realised surfeit ryhmes with foreit


----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> just realised surfeit ryhmes with foreit



so does Tight-Fit


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> just realised surfeit ryhmes with foreit


and so does 'can't knit' 'hissy fit' 'having a shit' 'game of cricket' 'had a hand in it' 'free market' 'not for profit' 

in fact alien sex fiend have a song about it


----------



## camouflage (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> green ink? is this an clue as to where your vote went? to the scabby malthusians? or have you just lost all sanity and become a green inker



I have my reasons. 

Say what you like about the Greens but at least they didn't have a war-criminal run the country (well over two hundred thousand dead and counting, talk about scabby malthusians).


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

> My school is holding a mock election and UKIP seem to be in the lead.
> We are in Kent so perhaps that is to be expected but still, it seems a major change to past ones where the greens were the protest of choice.



sad..


----------



## Libertad (May 7, 2015)

krink said:


> so does Tight-Fit




I was partly responsible for that video. The shame.


----------



## two sheds (May 7, 2015)

krink said:


> so does Tight-Fit




I was thinking you meant this one ... 



do love that track


----------



## rekil (May 7, 2015)

> A vote is a blunt instrument, not a sacrament. It’s a robust tool you should use to ensure you get the government you want – or the one you least dislike. Too negative? Tough, that’s how our miserable first-past-the-post system works. This country is deeply divided, left and right offering monumentally different futures. Vote Tory and you risk leaving Europe, with Scotland leaving the UK – shocking and irrevocable breakages. Nor does Miliband exaggerate when he defines today’s choice as a Tory government for the rich or a Labour government for working people.
> 
> *So stark is that choice that wasting a vote is near-criminal.*


Fuck off Toynbee you tyrant.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

"The difference between the Tories and Labour is an inch, but in that inch I can breathe"

Old lefty saying


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2015)

you voted labour then?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 7, 2015)

camouflage said:


> I have my reasons.
> 
> Say what you like about the Greens but at least they didn't have a war-criminal run the country (well over two hundred thousand dead and counting, talk about scabby malthusians).


The Greens have never had anyone run the country. 

They have however excelled at attacking the workers in the one place they have run in the UK.


----------



## BigMoaner (May 7, 2015)

i think the greens will do well this time


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> "The difference between the Tories and Labour is an inch, but in that inch I can breathe"
> 
> Old lefty saying


Do you mean the words from richard neville  after the oz trial that "there may only be an inch of difference between the main parties but its that inch we live in"? 

Plenty of other old lefty sayings too.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

copliker said:


> Fuck off Toynbee you tyrant.


she has a black belt in pomposity- who the fucks that aimed at? its a feel-good-about-yourself-reader, you voted. The vote you just cast is like the shot that rang out across the world.

fucking hack


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> you voted labour then?




I don't trust most politicians, including labour, look at how they behaved in Indyref, but I want the war on the disabled to end.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> "The difference between the Tories and Labour is an inch, but in that inch I can breathe"
> 
> Old lefty saying


yeh but the new lefty saying is there is no space between them and so if you try you'll only asphyxiate yourself. give it a go.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Someone up thread, posted the possibility of Blairites crossing the floor, giving Scameron his majority, how likely is this?



They don't need to, they've got their own neo liberal austerity party.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Scameron


pisspoor. wouldn't be surprised if you still thought bliar was in any way amusing.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but the new lefty saying is there is no space between them and so if you try you'll only asphyxiate yourself. give it a go.


I just don't get this. There is a massive difference between Tory and Labour - more than in any recent election. Yeah I get the whole Labour are scum, apologists for neo-liberalism and so on, but the reality is that the Tories are attacking our class to a much higher degree than Labour ever would.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

I did it to annoy you



> Seeing tweets if astonishing high turn outs at polling stations in marginal seats




anyway, from twitter


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> pisspoor. wouldn't be surprised if you still thought bliar was in any way amusing.


_"ZaNuLieBore takes on the ConDemNation at the polls....."_


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> I just don't get this. There is a massive difference between Tory and Labour - more than in any recent election. Yeah I get the whole Labour are scum, apologists for neo-liberalism and so on, but the reality is that the Tories are attacking our class to a much higher degree than Labour ever would.


you say that now but you'll be eating your words in six weeks if labour get in.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

> “I do not like elections,” reflected Winston Churchill, “but it is in my many elections that I have learnt to know and honour the people of this island.”
> 
> These were the exact words running through George Osborne’s head when he went to Somerset to glad-hand a vacuum cleaner (also called George). Anyone who failed to mentally caption this photo “Suck it up, shitheads” simply failed to understand their irrelevance to the three main party leaders this election. They would literally rather touch a dirtbag than you.
> It was the election of empty barns, deserted business parks, sanitised factory floor visits, and indentured activists waving placards they’d just happened to find in their back pockets after they’d surrendered their passports to a campaign staging official and signed a release form containing statements like “I am happy to be used as a token black person”.
> ...



Cracking summary of the election by Marina Hyde


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> I just don't get this. There is a massive difference between Tory and Labour - more than in any recent election. Yeah I get the whole Labour are scum, apologists for neo-liberalism and so on, but the reality is that the Tories are attacking our class to a much higher degree than Labour ever would.


what is the difference? that the labour party will be nicer while they shit on people than the tories would?

have you utterly forgotten the period 1997-2010?


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you say that now but you'll be eating your words in six weeks if labour get in.


I'll be fucking chuffed to bits if Labour get in - the thought of 5 more years of the vermin scares me shitless.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> I'll be fucking chuffed to bits if Labour get in - the thought of 5 more years of the vermin scares me shitless.


the vermin always get in.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Nick goes casual


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what is the difference? that the labour party will be nicer while they shit on people than the tories would?
> 
> have you utterly forgotten the period 1997-2010?


I think that's unfair. Labour weren't that bad from the off


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Nick goes casual


let us know when nick goes over


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> I think that's unfair. Labour weren't that bad from the off


no, but by 1997 they were shit.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what is the difference? that the labour party will be nicer while they shit on people than the tories would?
> 
> have you utterly forgotten the period 1997-2010?


Yeah the government will shit on people yada yada yada - the difference between Labour and Tory though is massive - for instance the Tories are proposing cuts to public services 30 times higher than those of Labour. And yes, I remember '97-'10... I got a pay rise each year and the sector I worked in was adequately funded to allow me to do my job. Since the Tories got in my pay has reduced by about a third and I've been made redundant 3 times.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Yeah the government will shit on people yada yada yada - the difference between Labour and Tory though is massive - for instance the Tories are proposing cuts to public services 30 times higher than those of Labour. And yes, I remember '97-'10... I got a pay rise each year and the sector I worked in was adequately funded to allow me to do my job. Since the Tories got in my pay has reduced by about a third and I've been made redundant 3 times.


the sector i work in has not been adequately funded since at least 1992. i've only been made redundant once in the past five years, so you win on the redundancy front.


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no, but by 1997 they were shit.


Shit compared to Old Labour, but still not too bad. I'd have 1997 Labour back over this shower of cunts, any day.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> I think that's unfair. Labour weren't that bad from the off


Do you remember what the very fist act of the 1997 labour government was? 

edit: Or at least the first act towards benefits?


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Do you remember what the very fist act of the 1997 labour government was?


Wasn't it to do with the BoE setitng their own rates?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> Shit compared to Old Labour, but still not too bad. I'd have 1997 Labour back over this shower of cunts, any day.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> Wasn't it to do with the BoE setitng their own rates?


See my edit, the first one proper was to make the BoE some independent bollocks. The very first one as regards benfits was to cut single parent benefits.


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> See my edit, the first one proper was to make the BoE some independent bollocks. The very first one as regards benfits was to cut lone parent benefits.


And even now I know that, I'd still rather have them than any of the current options.

I'll have to look into the parent benefits thing as I don't remember it, but can't see how/why they could do it: the economy was growing, they had campaigned on social justice. Why do that??


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the vermin always get in.


So you have no preference between a Labour or a Tory government? An odd position to take imo.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> So you have no preference between a Labour or a Tory government? An odd position to take imo.


yes, i have no preference as neither of them will be any good.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> And even now I know that, I'd still rather have them than any of the current options.
> 
> I'll have to look into the parent benefits thing as I don't remember it, but can't see how/why they could do it: the economy was growing, they had campaigned on social justice. Why do that??


That's up to you but irrelevant to the question of whether they were rotten from the moment they were elected.

Because that's what their ideology told them to do - it's what they wanted to do right then - and to pay back some of the tory voters they had won on the hard on scroungers line they had employed. To make an exemplary statement. That's the game they are playing.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

if labour wins the voice on the tele will be slightly less posh, thats a plus.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yes, i have no preference as neither of them will be any good.


Wow. Really? You think a Labour government would be as bad as a Tory one? *speechless*


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Wow. Really? You think a Labour government would be as bad as a Tory one? *speechless*


yes, yes i do. i can't think of a tory government in the last 50 years which has waged aggressive war - can you? but labour did it, and more than once. so in some ways i think a labour government could be worse than a tory one.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yes, yes i do. i can't think of a tory government in the last 50 years which has waged aggressive war - can you?


Depends if you are including class war. Northern Ireland and the Malvinas weren't exactly picnics either.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Depends if you are including class war. Northern Ireland and the Malvinas weren't exactly picnics either.


you don't know what waging aggressive war means, do you?

and if you're going to talk about the six counties, please to remember who sent the troops in and who withdrew special category status.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you don't know what waging aggressive war means, do you?
> 
> and if you're going to talk about the six counties, please to remember who sent the troops in and who withdrew special category status.


Yeah I know. I marched against the Iraq war. I was and am still disgusted by what happened. However I've been at the sharp end the Tory's class war most of my life and the difference between a Tory and a Labour government to me and my class is palpable. Minimum wage and tax credits lifted me and my family out of poverty... 5 years of Cameron and crew and we're sliding back. Talking of the Iraq war though, do you think a Tory government would have acted differently?


----------



## Idris2002 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you don't know what waging aggressive war means, do you?
> 
> and if you're going to talk about the six counties, please to remember who sent the troops in and who withdrew special category status.



Aye, but people wear "I still hate Thatcher" t-shirts in Belfast, they don't wear "I still hate Merlyn Rees and Jim Callaghan" shirts.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yes, yes i do. i can't think of a tory government in the last 50 years which has waged aggressive war - can you? but labour did it, and more than once. so in some ways i think a labour government could be worse than a tory one.


Thatcher: Falklands, Gulf War 1. 

Cameron: Libya. 

Sure I've missed some out, but those three came directly to mind.


----------



## Ungrateful (May 7, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Thatcher: Falklands, Gulf War 1.
> 
> Cameron: Libya.
> 
> Sure I've missed some out, but those three came directly to mind.


 
Wasn't Gulf War 1 - John Major, pre-election?


----------



## camouflage (May 7, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The Greens have never had anyone run the country.



Indeed.

If I felt they might get into power I don't know if I'd still vote for them, there's stuff I like in their manifesto and plenty I don't.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2015)

Ungrateful said:


> Wasn't Gulf War 1 - John Major, pre-election?


Was it? Ok, still a tory.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

I'm under no illusions: I know Labour are a shower of cunts but I'll vote for them to get rid of the Tories who are just fucking evil.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Thatcher: Falklands


you don't understand what waging aggressive war is either. not to mention that thatcher resigned in november 1990. when was the first gulf war?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

what do we make of Hackney? honest fuck up or shennanigans?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Was it? Ok, still a tory.


how was it aggressive war?


----------



## gentlegreen (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> Shit compared to Old Labour, but still not too bad. I'd have 1997 Labour back over this shower of cunts, any day.


We were all still a bit loved-up then - _fin de siècle_ and all that


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you don't understand what waging aggressive war is either. not to mention that thatcher resigned in november 1990. when was the first gulf war?


Ok, you'll be back on ignore presently. But just to say (no doubt in futility), don't speak in such fucking patronising tones. I class the Falklands as a war of aggression by the UK, which chose to send a task force half way across the world rather than to negotiate.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> what do we make of Hackney? honest fuck up or shennanigans?


i blame the reorganisation of metropolitan boroughs which was botched and led to composite london boroughs whose councils then withdrew from their populations as in hackney.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2015)

Back on ignore, pickman's. Was a mistake to take you off.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ok, you'll be back on ignore presently. But just to say (no doubt in futility), don't speak in such fucking patronising tones. I class the Falklands as a war of aggression by the UK, which chose to send a task force half way across the world rather than to negotiate.


you can class it as you will, but being as the falklands a british dependency it can't be classed as a war of aggression - the prime example of which is the invasions of poland and the soviet union by germany.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Back on ignore, pickman's. Was a mistake to take you off.


i didn't realise quite how full of shit you are so no great loss - join the other 30-something losers.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 7, 2015)

Ungrateful said:


> Wasn't Gulf War 1 - John Major, pre-election?



The EVIL ONE SAY NOT HER NAME was still PM when Saddam invaded Kuwait, so she was in charge of sending the UK contribution to the forces based in Saudi.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Being blown up by a peace keeping force is a lot less traumatic than being blown up by an army waging aggressive war.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i blame the reorganisation of metropolitan boroughs which was botched and led to composite london boroughs whose councils then withdrew from their populations as in hackney.



What, wait happened in Hackney?


----------



## Idris2002 (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Being blown up by a peace keeping force is a lot less traumatic than being blown up by an army waging aggressive war.



You can put all the stray body parts, severed limbs, bits of brain etc. in a big bin marked "no hard feelings".


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Yeah I know. I marched against the Iraq war. I was and am still disgusted by what happened. However I've been at the sharp end the Tory's class war most of my life and the difference between a Tory and a Labour government to me and my class is palpable. Minimum wage and tax credits lifted me and my family out of poverty... 5 years of Cameron and crew and we're sliding back. Talking of the Iraq war though, do you think a Tory government would have acted differently?


i'm not dealing in hypotheticals. 

do you recall the 10% tax rate the labour govt introduced which they then proceeded to double? 

do you remember labour governments?
now don't misunderstand us, vote labour if you want, we can't stop you, but...
do you remember labour governments?
do you remember notting hill?
do you remember lewisham?
do you remember southall and the murder of blair peach?
go ahead, vote labour if you have to, but...
do you remember grunwicks?
do you remember the winter of discontent?
do you think if kinnock was in power during the miners' strike he would have treated them any different than the tories did?
do you think if labour were in power their reaction to the urban uprisings would have been any different from the police?
do you think truncheons and plastic bullets will taste nicer under a labour government?
do you really believe that the capitalist elite will allow themselves to be peacefully voted out of existence by some poxy labour party, just like that without a fight?
do you seriously think that the nonsense of parliament has any real relevance to the class war going on every day in the streets and factories?
do you think our whole lives should be reduced to the misery of hanging around waiting for the next election, just so we can vote labour, hoping in vain it will change something? IT WILL CHANGE NOTHING!!

parties, vanguards and leaderships can't give us what we need, they only represent their own class interests. the only time we really win anything is when we fight for it ourselves, with our own hands through DIRECT ACTION/MASS RESISTANCE/WORKERS CONTROL


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> What, wait happened in Hackney?


50 years of mismanagement


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you can class it as you will, but being as the falklands a british dependency it can't be classed as a war of aggression - the prime example of which is the invasions of poland and the soviet union by germany.


Before I leave you I'll just add this: How did it become a British dependency? This is British aggressive worldwide warfare writ large.


----------



## marty21 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i blame the reorganisation of metropolitan boroughs which was botched and led to composite london boroughs whose councils then withdrew from their populations as in hackney.


 that was in 1965!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Before I leave you I'll just add this: How did it become a British dependency? This is British aggressive worldwide warfare writ large.


oh just fuck off. stop this shitty shilly-shallying, and run the fuck away you daft twat. why are you supporting the actions of fascists?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

marty21 said:


> that was in 1965!


well remembered


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> What, wait happened in Hackney?


the news says people have been cheated out of their franchise, despite being registered. I don't want to call stitch up yet, especially as it could be incompetence rather than machiavellian schemes


----------



## Idris2002 (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the news says people have been cheated out of their franchise, despite being registered. I don't want to call stitch up yet, especially as it could be incompetence rather than machiavellian schemes



Incompetence can be a feature as well as a bug.

I'm Niccolo Machiavelli and I approved this message.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the news says people have been cheated out of their franchise, despite being registered. I don't want to call stitch up yet, especially as it could be incompetence rather than machiavellian schemes


if it's thursday in hackney then it's incompetence.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not dealing in hypotheticals.
> 
> do you recall the 10% tax rate the labour govt introduced which they then proceeded to double?
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with any of that. I am a class war anarchist - you're preaching to the choir. But having said that the burden that I have to carry, the degree of onslaught from the ruling classes is significantly less under a Labour government. It just is. I would be a fool not to vote Labour in the current circumstances. Voting Labour doesn't preclude me from organising and acting as an anarchist.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> what do we make of Hackney? honest fuck up or shennanigans?



I'm going for fuck up as Hackney has two very very safe seats for Labour candidates, the Mayor is Labour etc.

ETA: Local paper story on it http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/hom...l_as_disenfranchised_queue_for_vote_1_4064511

ETA: Diane Abbot got 25,000 votes in 2010, with the Lib Dems coming 2nd at 11,000. So there would need to be problems with at least 10,000 ballot papers to make any difference here. She got more votes than all the other candidates put together.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> I don't disagree with any of that. I am a class war anarchist - you're preaching to the choir. But having said that the burden that I have to carry, the degree of onslaught from the ruling classes is significantly less under a Labour government. It just is. I would be a fool not to vote Labour in the current circumstances. Voting Labour doesn't preclude me from organising and acting as an anarchist.


so i'm just imagining the raft of repression under labour from before 9/11 onwards. if you mean that your pocket was marginally fuller under labour than perhaps you have a point (although they did double my tax and i wasn't eligible for tax credits, so i have a perhaps jaundiced view of their economick policies as they affected me). but in terms of actual class war, it was alive and well under labour, don't you worry about that.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Incompetence can be a feature as well as a bug.
> 
> I'm Niccolo Machiavelli and I approved this message.



to note an obvious fuck up and do nothing because the results of it serve your wider aims? very niccola thinking. Surf the wave of ineptitude.


----------



## marty21 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> well remembered


 it was a good year


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> so i'm just imagining the raft of repression under labour from before 9/11 onwards. if you mean that your pocket was marginally fuller under labour than perhaps you have a point (although they did double my tax and i wasn't eligible for tax credits, so i have a perhaps jaundiced view of their economick policies as they affected me). but in terms of actual class war, it was alive and well under labour, don't you worry about that.


Of course I worry about that. I am an anarchist from a socialist tradition. I believe in liberty and equality. I know Labour are a shower of cunts. However they are nowhere near as bad as the Tories. Sorry, but they just aren't.


----------



## marty21 (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Of course I worry about that. I am an anarchist from a socialist tradition. I believe in liberty and equality. I know Labour are a shower of cunts. However they are nowhere near as bad as the Tories. Sorry, but they just aren't.


 kinda agree with this - despite the well documented issues during 97-10, and Kinnock's treatment of the Miners and the other stuff mentioned by Pickmans, I generally feel happier under a Labour government and in the absence or possibility of a Socialist Government, that's the best we are likely to get.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

marty21 said:


> kinda agree with this - despite the well documented issues during 97-10, and Kinnock's treatment of the Miners and the other stuff mentioned by Pickmans, I generally feel happier under a Labour government and in the absence or possibility of a Socialist Government, that's the best we are likely to get.


This week at least.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

lube and crumbs from the table


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

I for one wouldn't mind a slightly longer chain and a larger cage. It would help right now while I work for and wait for the day when we finally break free.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Of course I worry about that. I am an anarchist from a socialist tradition. I believe in liberty and equality. I know Labour are a shower of cunts. However they are nowhere near as bad as the Tories. Sorry, but they just aren't.


i think you retain illusions in the labour party  the labour party has since at least 1987 gone out of its way to show they are the party of business (remember gordon brown's dinners in the city round '91, '92). but they're just the same: the people who were councillors in haringey or camden during the poll tax who were vicious in their enforcement of the community charge were labour, they were worse than tory councils in their enforcement of the community charge. the labour party's the soft wing of the establishment, bringing in vile legislation like the terrorism act 2000. in what way, outside your own pocket, are they better than the tories?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

marty21 said:


> kinda agree with this - despite the well documented issues during 97-10, and Kinnock's treatment of the Miners and the other stuff mentioned by Pickmans, I generally feel happier under a Labour government and in the absence or possibility of a Socialist Government, that's the best we are likely to get.


it's the difference between shit on its own and shit with jam.


----------



## marty21 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> it's the difference between shit on its own and shit with jam.


 more like the choice between a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich with a shit salad as a side dish


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

marty21 said:


> more like the choice between a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich with a shit salad as a side dish


between a shit whopper and shit big mac.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you retain illusions in the labour party  the labour party has since at least 1987 gone out of its way to show they are the party of business (remember gordon brown's dinners in the city round '91, '92). but they're just the same: the people who were councillors in haringey or camden during the poll tax who were vicious in their enforcement of the community charge were labour, they were worse than tory councils in their enforcement of the community charge. the labour party's the soft wing of the establishment, bringing in vile legislation like the terrorism act 2000. in what way, outside your own pocket, are they better than the tories?


Well, public services like the NHS, education, housing, social security... that sort of thing. Are you being willfully obtuse?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> between a shit whopper and shit big mac.


would that mean the LibDems are a zinger tower burger made out of fecal matter?


----------



## fen_boy (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> would that mean the LibDems are a zinger tower burger made out of fecal matter?



They're a Filet-o-jizz


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> would that mean the LibDems are a zinger tower burger made out of fecal matter?


nah they're a little chef shit burger


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Well, public services like the NHS, education, housing, social security... that sort of thing. Are you being willfully obtuse?


throughout the last labour government i lived in a council block which received fuck all upgrade - the decent homes programme entirely passed us by. i never saw any great work done by the labour government: although brown did declare in 2007 that affordable housing was one of the great issues of our time. he still did nothing about it tho. not to mention the great increase in pfi contracts 1997-2010 which will hobble the nhs (and schools) for decades to come. i don't get what grand things the labour party has done over the past 20 years in terms of benefits, i found things better signing on in the 1990s under the tories than in the 2000s under labour. and as for education who can forget that it was not the tories who introduced tuition fees but the labour party, after the nus had cravenly retreated from its policy of a return to 1979 grants and benefits, presided over by one james murphy. one thing which did emerge from the last labour govt was far greater testing of children and so i would say the education now offered is not so much an education as being in large measure trained for tests - and this is something which very much grew up in the labour years.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Well, public services like the NHS, education, housing, social security... that sort of thing. Are you being willfully obtuse?



On Social Security or Welfare as it is now called,, they brought in most of the legislation that is now leading to misery for millions.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> throughout the last labour government i lived in a council block which received fuck all upgrade - the decent homes programme entirely passed us by. i never saw any great work done by the labour government: although brown did declare in 2007 that affordable housing was one of the great issues of our time. he still did nothing about it tho. not to mention the great increase in pfi contracts 1997-2010 which will hobble the nhs (and schools) for decades to come. i don't get what grand things the labour party has done over the past 20 years in terms of benefits, i found things better signing on in the 1990s under the tories than in the 2000s under labour. and as for education who can forget that it was not the tories who introduced tuition fees but the labour party, after the nus had cravenly retreated from its policy of a return to 1979 grants and benefits, presided over by one james murphy. one thing which did emerge from the last labour govt was far greater testing of children and so i would say the education now offered is not so much an education as being in large measure trained for tests - and this is something which very much grew up in the labour years.


Well I don't know about signing on because under Labour I was able to get work... working to help the homeless as Labour invested massively in hostels and services for the homeless. Under the Tories I was homeless at times and often jobless. But, yes, I take your point that Blair and co were crap. They were a lot less crap than the Tories. They did spend money on public services - my local library, for example, opened 7 days a week for a while - it's closed down now.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> On Social Security or Welfare as it is now called,, they brought in most of the legislation that is now leading to misery for millions.


thank you for your support.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Well I don't know about signing on because under Labour I was able to get work... working to help the homeless as Labour invested massively in hostels and services for the homeless. Under the Tories I was homeless at times and often jobless. But, yes, I take your point that Blair and co were crap. They were a lot less crap than the Tories. They did spend money on public services - my local library, for example, opened 7 days a week for a while - it's closed down now.


i like to think that blair was at least as crap as cameron, i certainly think there's little to choose between an auld etonian and an auld fettesian.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)




----------



## mather (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> would that mean the LibDems are a zinger tower burger made out of fecal matter?



Isn't there a Lib Dem MP (forgot his name) who would like nothing better than to tuck into one of those?


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


>


must be a Stalinist - tomorrow is 'Victory Day' -when the nazi's surrendered to the commies


----------



## Sue (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the news says people have been cheated out of their franchise, despite being registered. I don't want to call stitch up yet, especially as it could be incompetence rather than machiavellian schemes



Well I got two polling cards in the same name, presumably because I registered then was informed I hadn't so did it again. This is Hackney after all...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> must be a Stalinist - tomorrow is 'Victory Day' -when the nazi's surrendered to the commies


more than one nazi surely


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> more than one nazi surely


good point, well made


----------



## Sue (May 7, 2015)

So to not vote or vote Communist League or Green?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Sue said:


> So to not vote or vote Communist League or Green?


communist league, wasn't impressed with the main photo on the green woman's leaflet


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

mather said:


> Isn't there a Lib Dem MP (forgot his name) who would like nothing better than to tuck into one of those?


I believe he preferred his burgers made from the shit of sex workers and oats


----------



## mather (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I believe he preferred his burgers made from the shit of sex workers and oats



Sick fuckers them Lib Dems, they make the Tories seem normal (if that was ever possible)


----------



## Wilf (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I believe he preferred his burgers made from the shit of sex workers and oats


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/burger-thread-yes.298438/


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> That's up to you but irrelevant to the question of whether they were rotten from the moment they were elected.
> 
> Because that's what their ideology told them to do - it's what they wanted to do right then - and to pay back some of the tory voters they had won on the hard on scroungers line they had employed. To make an exemplary statement. That's the game they are playing.


Just read up on that policy here. I didn't know about it. Or if I ever did, I've long forgotten about it.

Anyway, you're right. Rotten from day 1. Even that rottenness is better than what's on offer now, though. I don't know what Milliband could offer to counter the cuts he's got planned, but I doubt they'll match the early days of the last Labour govt's first term.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

Ended up voting the Greens, they won't win in Poplar and Limehouse but I'm practically fed up of all the other bullshit, and the old lady running for Green is nice.


----------



## Teaboy (May 7, 2015)

I didn't bother, fucking pointless waste of time.  Even the thought of booting out Vince Cable didn't appeal because he'd be replaced by a tory (I mean a different tory).


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Thatcher: Falklands, Gulf War 1.



Neither of those was aggressive: Argentina invaded the Falklands and Iraq invaded Kuwait.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Neither of those was aggressive: Argentina invaded the Falklands and Iraq invaded Kuwait.


yes. but let's not let little things like that get in the way of littlebabyjesus.


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> Just read up on that policy here. I didn't know about it. Or if I ever did, I've long forgotten about it.
> 
> Anyway, you're right. Rotten from day 1. Even that rottenness is better than what's on offer now, though. I don't know what Milliband could offer to counter the cuts he's got planned, but I doubt they'll match the early days of the last Labour govt's first term.


I reckon Miliband is personally some way to the left of the Blair administration: but what he has to work with had shifted significantly rightward since then (in no small part due to the Blair administration).


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Neither of those was aggressive: Argentina invaded the Falklands and Iraq invaded Kuwait.


LOL


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> I reckon Miliband is personally some way to the left of the Blair administration: but what he has to work with had shifted significantly rightward since then (in no small part due to the Blair administration).


To what extent is he choosing to work with it, though? For instance, that absurd gravestone with its set of tory-lite pledges, I could talk about all of them but let's just take one, wrt housing:

Help for first time buyers and some rent legislation.

ie messing around with the private sector in the hope of making it a little less bad. He didn't have to do that. He could have been bold and addressed directly the reason why the private sector does not provide, why it produces the housing crisis, and how getting out of it involves direct state involvement in building houses.

But no, he chooses to be a tory instead.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> To what extent is he choosing to work with it, though? For instance, that absurd gravestone with its set of tory-lite pledges mentioned, I could talk about all of them but let's just take one, wrt housing:
> 
> Help for first time buyers and some rent legislation.
> 
> ...


he chose to be a tory a long, long time ago


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> I reckon Miliband is personally some way to the left of the Blair administration: but what he has to work with had shifted significantly rightward since then (in no small part due to the Blair administration).


Yeah, but he had a chance to challenge it, and refused. This election was there for the taking. I think his distancing himself from the SNP so strongly has backfired a bit, even though he'll still end up PM (good link earlier, btw). He could have used the SNP and other parties to help change the consensus, but he didn't.

You're right that the political landscape has shifted right, but the public are looking left again (imo!). Lost opportunity...unless he just reneges on all his pre-election promises and ushers in full cummunism


----------



## Idris2002 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> he chose to be a tory a long, long time ago



He's more machine now, than man.


----------



## mk12 (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> You're right that the political landscape has shifted right, but the public are looking left again (imo!). Lost opportunity...unless he just reneges on all his pre-election promises and ushers in full cummunism



In what way are the public looking left?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

mk12 said:


> In what way are the public looking left?


when they cross the road they should look left. and right.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> He's more machine now, than man.


pity it's a shit machine.


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2015)

He could have been bold, and lost the election. Maybe he could have been bolder than he has been - I dunno, they probably have much more powerful models to base their strategy on than us.


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

mk12 said:


> In what way are the public looking left?


Anti-austerity feeling, strong support for renationalisation, Greens/SNP/Plaid doing well, Lib Dems hated for propping up a right-wing party, Labour's state intervention policies on energy prices and rent controls seem popular, as do their proposals on taxing non-doms and mansion owners.

I dunno, I just get a feeling it's heading that way...although there's the UKIP massive swell in support to factor in, too, so maybe it's just my "bubble".


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> He could have been bold, and lost the election. Maybe he could have been bolder than he has been - I dunno, they probably have much more powerful models to base their strategy on than us.


All those models are _reactive_, though, and based on all kinds of assumptions.

For instance, a house-building programme could be fully costed, with potential funding lined up (pension funds, etc), housing associations on board, high-profile architects such as Rogers and Foster publicly on board, how the rents charged would pay for the building, how additional training would be provided to produce the skilled builders needed. Joined-up policy without holes in it that would totally wrong-foot the tories. 

They don't do it not just because they think it would lose the election. There are other reasons why they don't do it.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> lube and crumbs from the table


sounds like your ideal night out


----------



## teqniq (May 7, 2015)




----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> sounds like your ideal night out


chuck a zoot or two into the mix and I am SO THERE


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

I've just seen a BBC poll saying 13% have voted UKIP.  I am shocked and depressed at that. I haven't been paying attention, clearly. I thought they were a joke party. Will they actually get some MPs?


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I've just seen a BBC poll saying 13% have voted UKIP.


Where?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2015)

Can't have exit polls till after 10.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> Where?


On their poll of polls. Hang on.


----------



## chilango (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I've just seen a BBC poll saying 13% have voted UKIP.  I am shocked and depressed at that. I haven't been paying attention, clearly. I thought they were a joke party. Will they actually get some MPs?



What?

They already have MPs.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I've just seen a BBC poll saying 13% have voted UKIP.  I am shocked and depressed at that. I haven't been paying attention, clearly. I thought they were a joke party. Will they actually get some MPs?


good. hopefully most of their support has come from the Tories - that's the real issue


----------



## mk12 (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I've just seen a BBC poll saying 13% have voted UKIP.  I am shocked and depressed at that. I haven't been paying attention, clearly. I thought they were a joke party. Will they actually get some MPs?


They got 26.6% of the vote in last year's Euro election?!


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> On their poll of polls. Hang on.


ah, ok. not 13% voted then.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

chilango said:


> What?
> 
> They already have MPs.


Not from a general election


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> ah, ok. not 13% voted then.


No, we don't know that yet. I'm still surprised at that figure.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

mk12 said:


> They got 26.6% of the vote in last year's Euro election?!


----------



## chilango (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Not from a general election



No.

But surely, having got MPs already lessens the potential shock should they (as forecast) win seats in the general election. No?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I've just seen a BBC poll saying 13% have voted UKIP.  I am shocked and depressed at that. I haven't been paying attention, clearly. I thought they were a joke party. Will they actually get some MPs?



the surge of ukip is that they have managed to pick up the dissafected english vote. Not every voter for that party is Enoch. Where the SNP have cleared up in scotland is, imo, an indication of the dissafected, fuck you all anti-austerity vote.

Now obvs Falange and his merry men aren't anywhere left of labour but they are picking up the fuck-you vote

Thanets the one to watch tonight. If Falange takes it he'll be holding three pints and have seven fags dangling out of his massive mouth


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

chilango said:


> No.
> 
> But surely, having got MPs already lessens the potential shock should they (as forecast) win seats in the general election. No?


I haven't been paying attention. I'm very shocked.


----------



## chilango (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I haven't been paying attention. I'm very shocked.



Clearly


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

chilango said:


> Clearly



I only tend to read headlines. And all I see is inarticulate clowns and ruddyfaced buffoons hitting women and talking about nig nogs.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Rentier scum warning tenants about the danger of voting labour:

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/may/07/lettings-agent-emailed-tenants-warning-over-labour-win


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 7, 2015)

I think there's a reasonable amount of support for ukip from traditional Labour low income groups.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Subtle propaganda at the Polling Station!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I haven't been paying attention. I'm very shocked.


i'm not, you often don't pay attention


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not, you often don't pay attention


It seems hardly worth it.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Another one for the noose:


----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

when is this election, anyway?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> It seems hardly worth it.


until you find what went on while you were looking the other way


----------



## weepiper (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> View attachment 71232
> 
> Subtle propaganda at the Polling Station!



I thought this one was good (Ian Murray is my incumbent Labour MP, tipped to be turfed out by the SNP).


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

weepiper said:


> I thought this one was good (Ian Murray is my incumbent Labour MP, tipped to be turfed out by the SNP).
> 
> View attachment 71234


big camber


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 7, 2015)

Street protest planned if cameron tries to squat downing street.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...cameron-tories-occupy-downing-street-election

Playing with fire the vermin are.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Street protest planned if cameron tries to squat downing street.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...cameron-tories-occupy-downing-street-election
> 
> Playing with fire the vermin are.



Kind of dumb to broadly publicise that now as it'll just play into tory claims of Labour 'stealing' the election with support from a load of unwashed bullies, the kind of thing that might motivate Tory supporters.  Just sounds a bit presumptive and arrogant at this point in time.  Bring it on tomorrow.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 7, 2015)

Explain the 2 votes thing I keep seeing, only had 1 ballot paper this morning.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 7, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Explain the 2 votes thing I keep seeing, only had 1 ballot paper this morning.



Some places also have council and mayoral elections today.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 7, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Some places also have council and mayoral elections today.



Ah ok


----------



## magneze (May 7, 2015)

> Thousands of people are planning to march on Downing Street ifDavid Cameron tries to stay on as Prime Minister without a parliamentary majority.
> 
> Campaigners fear that recent statements by the Prime Minister imply that he will declare a Labour government supported by the SNP as “illegitimate” and try to remain as PM.
> 
> They point to a recent editorial in _The Times_ newspaper which called called for Mr Cameron to “Occupy Downing Street” in the event of a Labour minority government.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...eron-refuses-to-leave-number-10-10233394.html


----------



## J Ed (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Another one for the noose:




It's very good of estate agents like Belvoir to make their property, including vehicles, so easily identifiable in order to ensure ease of providing feedback.


----------



## stupid kid (May 7, 2015)

Isn't this, kinddd of illegal?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Which election coverage are we watching, then?


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 7, 2015)

stupid kid said:


> Isn't this, kinddd of illegal?



Final polls, not exit polls.


----------



## Santino (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Which election coverage are we watching, then?


The one fronted by privately-educated Oxbridge graduates.


----------



## Supine (May 7, 2015)

Santino said:


> The one fronted by privately-educated Oxbridge graduates.



That cuts it down!!!


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Teresa May, Smith, and Grayling, have been mostly absent from the election, and Oliver Letwin!

plotting?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Teresa May, Smith, and Grayling, have been mostly absent from the election, and Oliver Letwin!
> 
> plotting?



There's been hardly any Tories about - I think the strategy has been to hide so as not to remind people of what cunts they are, whilst relying on the press to lay into the other guy. Could still work out for them.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Which election coverage are we watching, then?



PC games with a cup of tea then early bed, its all over and out of our hands so may as well greet the new dawn well rested, even if its a blue miserable shitty one


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Which election coverage are we watching, then?


None of it. Don't have a tv license. Won't be worth watching on catch up. I've got work at 8, so will be in bed by 11.


----------



## ska invita (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> "The difference between the Tories and Labour is an inch, but in that inch I can breathe"
> 
> Old lefty saying


another thats no longer true, like theres plenty more fish in the sea


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> None of it. Don't have a tv license. Won't be worth watching on catch up. I've got work at 8, so will be in bed by 11.


You're old.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Which election coverage are we watching, then?


Urban 75 + Radio 4


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> You're old.


I know. First election I've almost ignored. Used to get smashed and stay up late kicking the tv. 97 was the best of course.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I know. First election I've almost ignored. Used to get smashed and stay up late kicking the tv. 97 was the best of course.


I'm going to try to make it until Douglas Alexander & Jim Murphy's constituencies come in, around 3. 

I'll feel crap tomorrow, but hopefully also happy.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> There's been hardly any Tories about - I think the strategy has been to hide so as not to remind people of what cunts they are, whilst relying on the press to lay into the other guy. Could still work out for them.


It's been a weird election all round: hardly any Tories because, as you say, they are toxic and best hidden from view. Hardly any dissenting voices either because of the new legislation that has effectively silenced all the charities and NGO's. Even the media are complaining about how sterile it's been.


----------



## magneze (May 7, 2015)

Just had someone round from the Labour party making sure we'd voted. Can't remember that happening before.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm going to try to make it until Douglas Alexander & Jim Murphy's constituencies come in, around 3.
> 
> I'll feel crap tomorrow, but hopefully also happy.



Can you make sure that all the results are situated in one thread, & not spread around the 50 odd threads currently present for when some of us get up in the morning? Thank you


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Can you make sure that all the results are situated in one thread, & not spread around the 50 odd threads currently present? Thank you


Which thread do you advocate?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Put your results here and nowhere else.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

> At the risk of resorting to hyperbole, the results of the next 12 hours or so and the subsequent struggle for power will have such a profound impact on so many lives, and if there's a late swing to the right, there will genuinely be people who will die as a result of that, that would be alive in the next 5 years otherwise (based entirely on the evidence of the last 5 years, and the proposed welfare cuts)



posted on another forum, I concur


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Which thread do you advocate?



In the theme of this thread there is no difference between them.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Which election coverage are we watching, then?



I'm just going to watch this guy live stitch the results on twitter


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Which thread do you advocate?



Maybe someone should be starting a 'Results' thread?


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 7, 2015)

The result is gonna be decided tomorrow over tea and biscuits though. The public will be the last to know.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Maybe someone should be starting a 'Results' thread?


What kind of twat would do that, though?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> What kind of twat would do that, though?



brogdale ?


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Nah, this thread will do won't it?


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Maybe someone should be starting a 'Results' thread?



Monsieur la Rouge has indeed.
Nor are any twats evident.


----------



## magneze (May 7, 2015)

This Ch4 thing is total shite. Why did they bother.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Nah, this thread will do won't it?



No, no it fucking won't!


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> The result is gonna be decided tomorrow over tea and biscuits though. The public will be the last to know.


No, we elect MPs not a government. This is for constituency results. 

The discussion about the negotiations about the makeup of the government that will thereafter be formed can go on the coalition thread.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

I want to get up with a hangover in the morning & find a RESULTS thread FFS!


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> No, no it fucking won't!


Ok squire, keep yer hair on


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 7, 2015)

Handy link from the Press Association -  their best guess at declaration times.

http://election.pressassociation.com/Declaration_times/general_2015_by_time.php


----------



## a_chap (May 7, 2015)

I think there will be a result (i.e. one party has an overall majority)

That's about as profound as I get I'm afraid.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

It's 10pm, polls are closed! New thread = RESULTS THREAD!


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 7, 2015)

whats with the shit background music on bbc? Its nearly as bad as Dr Who.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I want to get up with a hangover in the morning & find a RESULTS thread FFS!


Up and running Mr B,
Can't link from this, check the forum.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Guardian is reporting large queues for voting even up to 9pm.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

Dragging this out aren't they?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Guardian is reporting large queues for voting even up to 9pm.



It's 10pm! Fuck the Guardian!


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)




----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

After everything, I actually forgot to vote spunking cock

Instead I voted for UKIP...I mean MUDKIP!!


----------



## weepiper (May 7, 2015)

Bang.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Put your results here and nowhere else.



Nice one!


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 7, 2015)

fuck - terrible exit poll.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 7, 2015)

BBC Wales reckon Tories getting 316 seats. That's enough isn't it? Fuck.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Exit poll = Tories 316 Lab 239 LD 10 SNP 58 PC 4 UKIP 2 Green 2


----------



## magneze (May 7, 2015)

Whoa. The BBC exit poll is amazing. Hopefully bollocks.


----------



## SE25 (May 7, 2015)

Fuck that...


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

oh fuck


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 7, 2015)

Whatsit on BBC has lost his voice already.


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 7, 2015)

here we fucking go. Fuck.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

Where the fuck did that exit poll come from?


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 7, 2015)

BBC's exit poll =
Con 316
Lab 239
SNP 58
Libdems 10
UKIP 2
Green 2


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)




----------



## Plumdaff (May 7, 2015)

Where the fuck is the second green seat?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 7, 2015)

Jesus fucking christ


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

5t3IIa said:


> Whatsit on BBC has lost his voice already.


cancer


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Where the fuck is the second green seat?


Bristol?


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

If this is accurate....fuck


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Going to have to stay up all night to see that being shown to be very wrong.


----------



## eoin_k (May 7, 2015)

So, how reliable are BBC exit polls?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

LD 10 though!


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> cancer


No way?? Oh god


----------



## aqua (May 7, 2015)

I think that exit poll prediction means I'm not staying up. Too depressing if it's on the money


----------



## mack (May 7, 2015)

Well fuck me..


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

I find that exit poll hard to believe. Basically no change in government.


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

That's got to be wrong surely?


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Seems extraordinarily wrong, that exit poll


----------



## eoin_k (May 7, 2015)

'On the nail' last time supposedly.


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

It's going to be a fun night


----------



## oryx (May 7, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


> BBC's exit poll =
> Con 316
> Lab 239
> SNP 58
> ...



Aaaaaaaargh!


----------



## bendeus (May 7, 2015)

Oh god, no!


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 7, 2015)

are they going to tell us the percentages? The polls must have been way way out.


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

aqua said:


> I think that exit poll prediction means I'm not staying up. Too depressing if it's on the money


Same. I feel like going to bed now.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

i think there's no way they've been able to come up with a methodology to deal with SNP/UKIP and LIb-dems. They were really really worried about it beforehand, the 5 men who do it.


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2015)

It's balls, surely.  Totally against all polling leading up to this.

Exit polls are always bollocks, frankly.


----------



## Mr Moose (May 7, 2015)

Well a lot of you on here were saying that a Labour win was a defeat for the working class and clearly the working classes agreed with that.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> fuck - terrible exit poll.


Lib Dems 10, though.


----------



## marty21 (May 7, 2015)

fuck, that exit poll is depressing (apart from the SNP prediction)


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

I don't want to watch it. Mrs. S☼I has it on within earshot, though. Already getting stabby


----------



## twentythreedom (May 7, 2015)

Sky news showing some weirdness from Sunderland


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

eoin_k said:


> So, how reliable are BBC exit polls?


Well, this election isn't like others, so it's hard to say. 

I think it's wrong.


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Bristol?


Christ I hope not. I've seen several people in West who were voting Labour specifically to stop the Greens


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 7, 2015)

kabbes said:


> It's balls, surely.  Totally against all polling leading up to this.
> 
> Exit polls are always bollocks, frankly.



They were absolutely spot on last time.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, this election isn't like others, so it's hard to say.
> 
> I think it's wrong.


Fucking hope so


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Shy Tories?


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Gove claiming victory already, fucking hell


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> They were absolutely spot on last time.


Really?  That's not my memory but my memory is unreliable on such things.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, this election isn't like others, so it's hard to say.
> 
> I think it's wrong.



I hope you're right!


----------



## Ranbay (May 7, 2015)




----------



## Citizen66 (May 7, 2015)

Fuck sakes. This country is fucked.


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

Oh god, it's 1992 all over again


----------



## stethoscope (May 7, 2015)

Tories on 316??! You've got to be fucking shitting me!


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

It really really can't be right. Completely bucks all polling trends


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 7, 2015)

Want to be positive, but feeling shitted right now


----------



## prunus (May 7, 2015)

Fuck fuck fuck.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Let's wait and see, there are no results as yet. Nil-nil, lots of pundits talking shite about tactics and wind direction


----------



## Geri (May 7, 2015)

I am going to kill myself.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

BBC have got Gove on. Proper ganda


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


> BBC's exit poll =
> Con 316
> Lab 239
> SNP 58
> ...



God help us all!


----------



## mk12 (May 7, 2015)

I know some people may have missed it, but...

Lib Dems: 10.


----------



## aqua (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> It really really can't be right. Completely bucks all polling trends


I've had a swathe of people on Facebook proudly announcing their Tory vote. As a result I'm many friends down on this morning but I don't remember such pride with it in previous years.


----------



## aqua (May 7, 2015)

eatmorecheese said:


> Want to be positive, but feeling shitted right now


Yep this.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Geri said:


> I am going to kill myself.


Don't even joke about it. Fucking depressing though. *opens beer*


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)

mk12 said:


> I know some people may have missed it, but...
> 
> Lib Dems: 10.



10 too fucking many.


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> They were absolutely spot on last time.


Yeah, you're right

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ccurate-has-it-been-in-the-past-10233667.html

They fucked it up in 92 but were spot on in 2010.

Oh balls, this looks baaaaad.


----------



## FiFi (May 7, 2015)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


Oh dear god no!


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

mk12 said:


> I know some people may have missed it, but...
> 
> Lib Dems: 10.


They'll all be ministers on these numbers


----------



## mk12 (May 7, 2015)

So Scottish voters have handed power to the Tories. Cheers.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 7, 2015)

Either the exit poll is way out or ALL the polls were way out. 
Cant be that far out though. Fuck.


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2015)

LD on 10 doesn't surprise me though.  I've thought from the beginning that 25-30 looked hopelessly optimistic for them.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 7, 2015)

Do we get to see the percentages?


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

Must admit Nick Robinson's impression of David Attenborough is spot on!


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2015)

mk12 said:


> So Scottish voters have handed power to the Tories. Cheers.


No they haven't.  Exit poll has Tories 77 ahead of Labour and there are only 59 seats in Scotland.


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

mk12 said:


> So Scottish voters have handed power to the Tories. Cheers.


Bollocks, on those numbers they've deprived the Tories of one seat


----------



## bendeus (May 7, 2015)

Is there any way this could be a mistake? Any possible way that the exit polls are that far out? /clutching straws/


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

aqua said:


> I've had a swathe of people on Facebook proudly announcing their Tory vote. As a result I'm many friends down on this morning but I don't remember such pride with it in previous years.



Depressing


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

That's it then, surely an exit poll can't be that wrong?


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

YG exit poll finds level.

Con 284 
Lab 263
 LD 31
SNP 48.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Must admit Nick Robinson's impression of David Attenborough is spot on!



Celeb death pool 2016?


----------



## Looby (May 7, 2015)

Fuck. [emoji20] I didn't think I'd be crying by five past ten. Fucking Tory voting cunting fuckheads. [emoji35]


----------



## Supine (May 7, 2015)

The C4 prog is great. The exit poll is very depressing


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

I'm ready with my colouring in kit.


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

I'm going with my innate sense of pessimism then. Fucking Tories and fucking Tory voters. Cunts the lot of them.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> That's it then, surely an exit poll can't be that wrong?


They got it wrong  in 92 with much fewer variables. Two of them did in fact rather than the now combined one.


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2015)

Who is wrong?  Exit poll or pre-election polling?


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

bendeus said:


> Is there any way this could be a mistake? Any possible way that the exit polls are that far out? /clutching straws/


Yougov's exit poll says different


----------



## Shirl (May 7, 2015)

aqua said:


> I've had a swathe of people on Facebook proudly announcing their Tory vote. As a result I'm many friends down on this morning but I don't remember such pride with it in previous years.


I haven't come across anyone voting Tory. I was sure there were going to do badly


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Ashcroft with big exit/post vote poll at 12.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

On those numbers they don't need the liberal democrats, DUP + UKIP would be enough...


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

I've cracked open a bottle of fizz - not champagne, not yet - because whatever the result, this is a victory for democracy.


----------



## AnnaKarpik (May 7, 2015)

magneze said:


> Just had someone round from the Labour party making sure we'd voted. Can't remember that happening before.



You've reminded me that we usually got a call from the Libdems to ask the same thing; not this time. Mind, this seat is now a confirmed tory seat rather than a libdem/con marginal.


----------



## Mr Moose (May 7, 2015)

Soz - but this appears to have gone to tradition - the tradition that says if the economy is perceived to be strong (doesn't matter if some people are really suffering) then the incumbent Government is reelected.

Labour optimism was misplaced as soon as the polls neared parity.


----------



## SE25 (May 7, 2015)

sparklefish said:


> Fuck. [emoji20] I didn't think I'd be crying by five past ten. Fucking Tory voting cunting fuckheads. [emoji35]



Haven't cried for years but if I watch this shit it seems likely


----------



## aqua (May 7, 2015)

Shirl said:


> I haven't come across anyone voting Tory. I was sure there were going to do badly


I've had some regurgitating the 'if it was your debt you'd have to pay it off', that only those refusing to work would vote for labour as they have time to spare to vote, I've had someone working in the NHS saying how vital it is that reforms can go ahead.

So depressing


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 7, 2015)

*looks at poll* 

Right, I'm going to bed, when I wake up I expect things to make more sense


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

magneze said:


> Just had someone round from the Labour party making sure we'd voted. Can't remember that happening before.


They've had thousands out in London today getting the vote out


----------



## Citizen66 (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> Bollocks, on those numbers they've deprived the Tories of one seat



They've deprived Labour of even more...


----------



## twentythreedom (May 7, 2015)

Oh god, not Kay Burley  <changes channel>


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

I wouldn't mind seeing Ashdown eat a marzipan hat!


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> They've deprived Labour of even more...


But not nearly enough to form a government


----------



## Dan U (May 7, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> Oh god, not Kay Burley  <changes channel>


Same. 

Reckon she is kipping on Camerons sofa later. She appears to be in his constituency


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Quartz said:


> I've cracked open a bottle of fizz - not champagne, not yet - because whatever the result, this is a victory for democracy.


ffs


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

It's too early to get depressed.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> But not nearly enough to form a government



Well not by that exit poll, no. Looks like whoever forms the next govt will have to collaborate with Scotland though, which amuses me no end.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

I'm off to bed. Please keep this the real results thread so I can check in throughout the night when insomnia dictates


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

Senior UKIP sources in Thanet South supposedly very worried about tactical votes for the Tories


----------



## frogwoman (May 7, 2015)

FFS that exit poll better not be accurate


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 7, 2015)

Well I hope everyone's settling in for a long and miserable night


----------



## twentythreedom (May 7, 2015)

Dan U said:


> Same.
> 
> Reckon she is kipping on Camerons sofa later. She appears to be in his constituency


She was getting quite excited about something. She's got all her best jewellery on specially.

She is so bloody awful, why do Sky employ her?


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

> Harriet Harman's response makes me worry Labour's internal polling is pretty much in line with the exit poll.



posted on cif


----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

Which TV channel has the best coverage? BBC is already doing my nut in.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

this will end well


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Quartz said:


> I've cracked open a bottle of fizz - not champagne, not yet - because whatever the result, this is a victory for democracy.


I started replying but gave up.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

dimbelbellend is getting neck shot come the day. Posh cunt


----------



## Dan U (May 7, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> She was getting quite excited about something. She's got all her best jewellery on specially.
> 
> She is so bloody awful, why do Sky employ her?


She is a bit of a darling of the right I think.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Yougov exit poll for The Sun is quite different

CON 284 MPs, LAB 263, LIBS 31, SNP 48, UKIP 2, PLAID 3, GREEN 1


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> YG exit poll finds level.
> 
> Con 284
> Lab 263
> ...


hope this one is more accurate


----------



## lincy (May 7, 2015)

I am a bit bereft, given the fact that we have no real socialist party to vote for, I voted Labour, now I see that the tories are ahead in the exit poll, I can only hope that this is wrong .I can't even imagine how much continuing pain will be inflicted on the people who least deserve it.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> hope this one is more accurate


Much much smaller sample (6000) and other potential problems though. Ashcroft at midnight is much larger.


----------



## voiceofreason (May 7, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Do we get to see the percentages?



No, they don't tell us with exit polls for some reason.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Electoral Calculus who were the closest at the 2010 election are predicting

CON = 280

LAB = 274

LIB DEM = 21

SNP = 52


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

OK, I've just got in.

Hmmm that exit don't look right. YG closer?

Was the TV sample 16K plus?


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

On the plus side if the scum buckets do win they can take the blame when the Bonds crash in 2017 and wipe everything out!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> LD 10 though!


always a silver lining


----------



## Fez909 (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Much much smaller sample (6000) and other potential problems though. Ashcroft at midnight is much larger.


But looks much more in line with what people were expecting. Anyway, there's a glimmer of hope that the blue vermin don't get in. I'll take it.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> this will end well



Pitch forks & torches. Sniper rifles & suicide belts.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 7, 2015)

voiceofreason said:


> No, they don't tell us with exit polls for some reason.





So all we get is the projected number of seats for each party? That's odd. Maybe whatever model they're using has been skewed by a large anti-labour swing in Scotland.


----------



## purenarcotic (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> OK, I've just got in.
> 
> Hmmm that exit don't look right. YG closer?
> 
> Was the TV sample 16K plus?



22k voters polled.


----------



## Supine (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Electoral Calculus who were the closest at the 2010 election are predicting
> 
> CON = 280
> 
> ...




That's an improvement I suppose


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

oh i'm looking forward to articul8 explaining how he cocked everything up and he's sorry


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

@BBCAllegra 4m4 minutes ago

Labour folk divided but even the critics of Miliband's leadership think there has been a "very serious polling error" in exit poll.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

purenarcotic said:


> 22k voters polled.


Wow.

Lab fucked, then. 

Pollsters not looking good.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

How many election polls over the last few months must be wrong for this to be right? 150? 200?


----------



## twentythreedom (May 7, 2015)

Dan U said:


> She is a bit of a darling of the right I think.


----------



## Mr Moose (May 7, 2015)

Supine said:


> That's an improvement I suppose



An enormous one.


----------



## Ranbay (May 7, 2015)




----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 7, 2015)

They'd better get on with interviewing Farage, there's only half an hour before the pubs close.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

everyone is puzzled. Funny that.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> @BBCAllegra 4m4 minutes ago
> 
> Labour folk divided but even the critics of Miliband's leadership think there has been a "very serious polling error" in exit poll.



I think a lot of people are hoping this is an error, it's quite terrifying.


----------



## voiceofreason (May 7, 2015)

All becomes all the stranger when you compare the YouGov exit poll figures :

Tory 284 MPs, 
Labour 263, 
SNP 48, 
LibDems 31, 
UKIP 2, 
Plaid 3, 
Green 1


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

haha Nick Robinsons lost his voice. Probably because of chatting so much shit


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Someone is wrong.


----------



## 2hats (May 7, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> She is so bloody awful, why do Sky employ her?



I think you've answered your own question there.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 7, 2015)

History of BBC exit poll accuracy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32428768


----------



## Flavour (May 7, 2015)

How the fuck have they managed that? Can't even take much consolation in the annihilation of the lib Dems if, as it seems, it's all for the gain of the tory bastards


----------



## andysays (May 7, 2015)

Supine said:


> That's an improvement I suppose



That's effectively a complete reversal of the first one.

So have we had three different exit polls saying three completely different things? If so, it suggests we shouldn't take any of them too seriously, doesn't it?


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> haha Nick Robinsons lost his voice. Probably because of chatting so much shit


...and the cancer.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

benefits street new series starts on Monday, more 60 minutes hate to fuel the tories, etc.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> haha Nick Robinsons lost his voice. Probably because of chatting so much shit


No, because of cancer


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> pity it's a shit machine.



Could have been worse, could have been Tin Machine.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 7, 2015)

The exit poll for BBC/ITV/SKY was done by NOP/MORI - anyone know the methodology? Or the margin of error? Can't be as accurate as the usual polls can it?


----------



## Santino (May 7, 2015)

C: because cunts get cancer too


----------



## aqua (May 7, 2015)

andysays said:


> That's effectively a complete reversal of the first one.
> 
> So have we had three different exit polls saying three completely different things? If so, it suggests we shouldn't take any of them too seriously, doesn't it?


Whilst I admire your optimism I fear its misplaced


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> ...and the cancer.


oh god now I feel awful, about nick robinson.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> History of BBC exit poll accuracy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32428768



Only the odd figure out, if thats the case, let's welcome Satan back to number 10.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Yougov exit poll for The Sun is quite different
> 
> CON 284 MPs, LAB 263, LIBS 31, SNP 48, UKIP 2, PLAID 3, GREEN 1


Well I guess we'll find out soon but to me that looks a lot more sensible. I find it very hard to see how the Greens can pick up another seat. 


If the TV is right, what are the repercussions. Surely even the cowards in the yellow cult would have to chuck Clegg. More interesting to ponder what Labour would do, Blairites would obviously be on the offensive I can see an alliance between them and the "left"-wing of the LDs, but that type of move would surely set them even further back in Scotland.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The exit poll for BBC/ITV/SKY was done by NOP/MORI - anyone know the methodology?


They didn't have a stable one - they change it every 15 minutes as they are dropped data from around the country - it was dynamic.


----------



## mk12 (May 7, 2015)

Miliband will be gone surely?


----------



## Plumdaff (May 7, 2015)

At least everyone seems to be forecasting Farage won't get a seat.


----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

Watching some of the bods from work at Sunderland count. I was in there opening votes the other day!


----------



## articul8 (May 7, 2015)

this exit poll is


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 7, 2015)

Posted by butchers on another thread:



butchersapron said:


> I was reading up on the exit poll this morning - they really were worried about the snp/lib-dem/UKIP stuff and how to deal with it. So many new variables and variables with no tradition to fall back on. Plus the lead bloke (fisher) has an interest in making it tally with his own prediction figures (which it has) - everyone else said he was leaning too much towards the tories. He may have played a blinder though.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> Oh god, it's 1992 all over again



There was always that risk. It is, in my memory, the only time the polls got it very wrong.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 7, 2015)

Nick Robinson in "vaguely good point" shocker.  If the Lib Dem prediction of 10 is low, it would likely be Conservative seats they take back.  If the SNP prediction of 58 is high, it would likely be Labour who take them (caveats of tactical voting apply).   ***Could*** see the gap narrow significantly.  Probably won't.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> At least everyone seems to be forecasting Farage won't get a seat.


no one in the pub wants to sit beside him


----------



## andysays (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> They didn't have a stable one - they change it every 15 minutes as they are dropped data from around the country - it was dynamic.



Is that another way of saying they make it up as they go along, or is there some coherent method behind it?


----------



## pennimania (May 7, 2015)

I think I might go to bed early for the first time in about 5 years.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 7, 2015)

You Gov wasn't an exit poll


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

This was posted on the Guardian blog


> Extraordinary rumours swirling - most incredible is that Tories think they might have got Balls in Morley and Outwood. Surely not.


If that is the case then the TV exit poll could be right.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

andysays said:


> Is that another way of saying they make it up as they go along, or is there some coherent method behind it?


There must be.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 7, 2015)

The one thing the BBC exit poll will do is make sure everyone keeps watching the BBC election reporting...


----------



## Dan U (May 7, 2015)

Ukip guy on BBC 1 saying poll is bollocks.

Obviously he would say that etc


----------



## miktheword (May 7, 2015)

from May 2015 about exit polls

How exactly they do it is complicated. It involves statistical testing, ‘empirical priors’ and ‘theoretical priors’. But put simply, if forecasters start to see things they expect – like a strong incumbency effect for Lib Dems, or a lower Ukip vote than they once envisioned – they are more likely to grasp onto that variable and include it in their model.


Modelling change is harder when you have to add new polling stations.

Once they are happy with their variables they will start to extrapolate, and come to the seat prediction that will flash up onto our TV screens at 10. The critical point is that they don’t try and predict an overall vote share. Instead, they try to work out change since the last election. That way, any bias in the exit poll method should cancel out across elections.

Modelling change is harder when you have to add new polling stations. They have had to this year so they can model Ukip and the SNP. They have clipboard-holders in Scotland and across eastern England today, whose data they have no comparisons for. That makes their task all the more fraught.

How accurate do they expect to be? Fisher hopes to be within 20-25 seats on the main two parties, a similar range to the one offered by pre-election forecasters like Newsnight’s Election Forecast




someone said today an exit poll (especially in this election with variables having no precedent) is like trying to guess what someone had for lunch by looking at their dump.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2015)

Geri said:


> I am going to kill myself.



Why waste your life? Why not take out a Tory or six instead?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

http://twitter.com/YouGov/status/596427570020769792


----------



## paolo (May 7, 2015)

Those exit polls are an ouch.

Need a running count of the anti tory bloc as the real results come in.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 7, 2015)

If UKIP "wins" two seats, are those new or are they the Tory defectors retaining their seats?


----------



## J Ed (May 7, 2015)

Fuck


----------



## articul8 (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> oh i'm looking forward to articul8 explaining how he cocked everything up and he's sorry


it's all my fault - I'm going on the BBC soon to apologise


----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

As its all over, I can now reveal that loads of people struggled to repack the postal votes correctly so we had to sort them out and could see some of the votes (we put the votes face down). Voters who messed up the repacking were from all parties (even saw a tusc vote that was done wrong). However, the majority of the errors were by... UKIP supporters! I know it sounds corny but it is true!


----------



## andysays (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> There must be.



I guess there must, but can't imagine what it might be.

Anyway, we'll know in a few hours if this prediction was correct or not...


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

Something that was mentioned elsewhere: the Conservative Lib Dem majority would be vastly reduced.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

articul8 said:


> it's all my fault - I'm going on the BBC soon to apologise


Well assuming that the exit poll is right, what do Labour and you do next?


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)

I've convinced myself that the Tories will drop to about 290 seats and Labour will rise to about 270. Fuck the BBC!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

articul8 said:


> it's all my fault - I'm going on the BBC soon to apologise


why not leave it to the morning when your apology might make it to the and finally spot


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Well assuming that the exit poll is right, what do Labour and you do next?


hari-kiri


----------



## Dan U (May 7, 2015)

Exit poll man on BBC 1 now


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

This sounds like the SNP dream result.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

BBC saying 326 seats to win, does that include SF?


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> BBC saying 326 seats to win, does that include SF?


I think it takes them into account.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> BBC saying 326 seats to win, does that include SF?


It really is 321.
Some say 323, but it ain't 326.


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

Guardian saying Tories think they may have got Balls


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> This sounds like the SNP dream result.



No. It will be the worst possible result, if the BBC exit poll is right. Sweeping Scotland, but out in the cold.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> BBC saying 326 seats to win, does that include SF?


Plane takes off.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> It really is 321.
> Some say 323, but it ain't 326.



323 was what I thought.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> This sounds like the SNP dream result.


Really? I would have thought it was the worst possible result; assuming the Tories are able to form a government, the SNP have no influence on anything.


----------



## paolo (May 7, 2015)

So, on BBC exit polls, Cons+Libs scrape past the margin. Shite.


----------



## articul8 (May 7, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Well assuming that the exit poll is right, what do Labour and you do next?


firstly, scottish labour would have to completely refound itself as an independent entity, with its own policy structures and explicit rejection of New Labour and unionism.

Then the whole question of promising year on year cuts...

Mind you, could be that the exit poll is rogue.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> No. It will be the worst possible result, if the BBC exit poll is right. Sweeping Scotland, but out in the cold.


Sas, they will now walk 2016 with IR II in the mix. The union is over.


----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

Useles buggers haven't beat the record in Sunderland probs cos I'm not working tonight.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> Guardian saying Tories think they may have got Balls


bollocks

they might win the shadow chancellor's seat tho


----------



## Supine (May 7, 2015)

mk12 said:


> Miliband will be gone surely?



Miloband #2 is getting his suits pressed now


----------



## ska invita (May 7, 2015)

Natalie Bennett might win a seat if this polling works out for her https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/results/yX7XAeEtVrdNI3uqu#/constituency-results


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> they might win the shadow chancellor's seat too


*parp*


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

GOAL


----------



## J Ed (May 7, 2015)

Hate them


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

791! Lol, liberal scum


----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

UKIP beat Tories and Liberals in houghton and Sunderland south. Decent 1000 for greens.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

LibLol etc


----------



## marty21 (May 7, 2015)

UKIP second in Sunderland South!  Lib Dems under a 1000!


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

Lib Dems get 700 votes in Sunderland. and UKIP beat the Tories.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> 791! Lol, liberal scum


£500 spunked


----------



## Flavour (May 7, 2015)

Lib Dems absolutely finished in Sunderland, oh glorious day


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Really? I would have thought it was the worst possible result; assuming the Tories are able to form a government, the SNP have no influence on anything.


You may have misunderstood what they want out of Westminster.


----------



## Roadkill (May 7, 2015)




----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> £500 spunked


2% - has to be below 1% to lose your deposit, no?


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Notice how they cut away the SECOND the Lab woman in Sunderland started slagging the Tories? "We've got the result from Sunderland South...oh, no we haven't after all *whistles*"


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Lib dem deposit lost according to radio 4


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> 2% - has to be below 1% to lose your deposit, no?


1st lost deposit. There'll be many more.


----------



## paolo (May 7, 2015)

Sunderland not reflecting exit poll.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> 2% - has to be below 1% to lose your deposit, no?


5%


----------



## J Ed (May 7, 2015)

Exit poll is wrong. Surely ?


----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

1000 for the greens is canny. That'll be almost all disillusioned labour voters if the anecdotal evidence I have is correct. The greens here in Sunderland are all pretty sound people. Tusc bods, not so much


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Notice how they cut away the SECOND the Lab woman in Sunderland started slagging the Tories? "We've got the result from Sunderland South...oh, no we haven't after all *whistles*"


coverage much better on the radio - played her speech.


----------



## paolo (May 7, 2015)

krink said:


> UKIP beat Tories and Liberals in houghton and Sunderland south. Decent 1000 for greens.



(Liking the greens count)


----------



## andysays (May 7, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> 2% - has to be below 1% to lose your deposit, no?



below 5% is a lost deposit


----------



## passenger (May 7, 2015)

not many people would come out shouting i voted ukip are they 
could be the twist ? in some way


----------



## Cerberus (May 7, 2015)

Lib's lose their deposit.....


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

paolo said:


> Sunderland not reflecting exit poll.



They sure tried to make it sound as though it did.


----------



## Shirl (May 7, 2015)

aqua said:


> I've had some regurgitating the 'if it was your debt you'd have to pay it off', that only those refusing to work would vote for labour as they have time to spare to vote, I've had someone working in the NHS saying how vital it is that reforms can go ahead.
> 
> So depressing


I'm really tired and now in bed but I can't sleep. I want some good news. I don't want to wake up to a Tory government


----------



## paolo (May 7, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Exit poll is wrong. Surely ?



I hope.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Exit poll is wrong. Surely ?



Quite possibly not.

3.9% Con -> Lab Sunderland = lower than polling would have predicted. Don't hope.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 7, 2015)

@ the exit poll bod claiming "this is exactly in line with what we expected" in a pretty definite Labour hold. Well done on predicting water is wet.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

paolo said:


> Sunderland not reflecting exit poll.


Reflecting it almost exactly - but irrelevant nationally.


----------



## comrade spurski (May 7, 2015)

I knew that the tories would be the biggest parties and that lib dems ... but fuck me...how shit are labour if they get less seats That 2010 after 5 years of this fucking government?


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

Why do I have a feeling even the exit polls are overstating what the Liberal Democrats will get? I doubt even double figures for them.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Why do I have a feeling even the exit polls are overstating what the Liberal Democrats will get? I doubt even double figures for them.


I actually think they'll get more than 10. Pint bet?


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> @ the exit poll bod claiming "this is exactly in line with what we expected" in a pretty definite Labour hold. Well done on predicting water is wet.


To be fair he was talking about the con--->lab swing not the result.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I actually think they'll get more than 10. Pint bet?



Don't drink, but you have a game on. If they get less than 10 I'll even drink it!


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

It's too early to be pessimistic.


----------



## aqua (May 7, 2015)

Argh and having another row with a Tory on my Facebook. I can't decide if my anger is a good sign htat my post baby fug is clearing, or a really bad sign.


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

I fucking hate Andrew Neil.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Quartz said:


> It's too early to be pessimistic.


it's never too early


----------



## paolo (May 7, 2015)

Whilst we're in the now in the grinding speculation zone until real results come in...

...anyone want to take a punt on interesting challenges?

Starter for ten:

Mhairi Black vs Danny Alexander.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

comrade spurski said:


> I knew that the tories would be the biggest parties and that lib dems ... but fuck me...how shit are labour if they get less seats That 2010 after 5 years of this fucking government?


it's all down to one poster here.


----------



## J Ed (May 7, 2015)

Getting drunk. Fuck. Why are so many vermin in this country


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> I fucking hate Andrew Neil.


More than Michael Gove?


----------



## krink (May 7, 2015)

Ah this isn't very interesting so far...going to watch some Steven King bobbins on 5 instead


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

What a panel on the BBC, Paddy Pantsdown, Alistair Clampdown and Pob!


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> More than Michael Gove?



No, but more than Paddy Ashdown.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)

It's like deja vu all over again.


----------



## Casually Red (May 7, 2015)

I think you peeps are doomed to Tory governments forever . The smart move for those who at the very least could tolerate centre left government forever , would be mass migration to either Scotland or Wales , support their independence and then build 2 huge big fucking walls . And mine the sealanes  and beach heads . Thereby insulating yourselves and generations yet unborn from that never ending pestilence .

Similarly the likes of Jim Murphy could be tossed over the wall and told to seek refuge in toryland . Everyone's happy .


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Sas, they will now walk 2016 with IR II in the mix. The union is over.



Over the dead bodies of the 55% who rejected the separatist's view. If the blue and yellow vermin get back in, there will not be another referendum.

I've never been more conflicted over an election.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> More than Michael Gove?


put them both in a room for three days and see who walks out


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> I fucking hate Andrew Neil.



damn left-wing BBC...Dimbleby, Neil, Robinson...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Over the dead bodies of the 55% who rejected the separatist's view. If the blue and yellow vermin get back in, their will not be another referendum.
> 
> I've never been more conflicted over an election.


the night is young


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Over the dead bodies of the 55% who rejected the separatist's view. If the blue and yellow vermin get back in, their will not be another referendum.
> 
> I've never been more conflicted over an election.


Don't forget that the vermin will be taking us out of the EU. 55%?


----------



## duncanh64 (May 7, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> It's like deja vu all over again.



Agreed; I've had a '1992' feeling all night


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> put them both in a room for three days and see who walks out



And then kneecap the one that does.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

I will hang andrew niel with his own pissy y-fronts


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> I think you peeps are doomed to Tory governments forever . The smart move for those who at the very least could tolerate centre left government forever , would be mass migration to either Scotland or Wales , support their independence and then build 2 huge big fucking walls . And mine the sealanes  and beach heads . Thereby insulating yourselves and generations yet unborn from that never ending pestilence .
> 
> Similarly the likes of Jim Murphy could be tossed over the wall and told to seek refuge in toryland . Everyone's happy .



Scotland is ever more tempting. Fuck knows I can't earn enough to love down here.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Don't forget that the vermin will be taking us out of the EU. 55%?



And that might be what finally fucks off Wales enough to create a proper independence movement. Lots of EU money here in areas Westminster doesn't give a fuck about.


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

"Labour sources" saying Farage third in South Thanet


----------



## aqua (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> I fucking hate Andrew Neil.


I fucking hate the Tories


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)




----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

articul8 said:


> firstly, scottish labour would have to completely refound itself as an independent entity, with its own policy structures and explicit rejection of New Labour and unionism.
> 
> Then the whole question of promising year on year cuts...
> 
> Mind you, could be that the exit poll is rogue.


And you think this is the route that the party will take rather than a move to the right? I'm not asking what you want to see but what you think will happen


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

Few people mentioning that Ed Balls might be in for a heavy contest for his seat.

What the fuck is happening tonight?!


----------



## Casually Red (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Over the dead bodies of the 55% who rejected the separatist's view. If the blue and yellow vermin get back in, their will not be another referendum.
> 
> I've never been more conflicted over an election.



The referendum was only one route . With a massive endorsement at the polls and the meltdown of the unionist parties they should just go ahead and declare independence if the people have given them overwhelming backing .


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Scotland is ever more tempting. Fuck knows I can't earn enough to love down here.


aw no  not enough to love  how dreadful


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Few people mentioning that Ed Balls might be in for a heavy contest for his seat.
> 
> What the fuck is happening tonight?!



BBC mentioned Michael cuntface Gove's former aide saying it. Any better source?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

haha look at Goves glum face


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> aw no  not enough to love  how dreadful



No money in my pocket and I just can't find no love


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> No money in my pocket and I just can't find no love



Not that I was looking to pay for it I should add.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2015)

early claims of legitimacy. Eat  your hat


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Few people mentioning that Ed Balls might be in for a heavy contest for his seat.
> 
> What the fuck is happening tonight?!


Nick Robinson saying that ballot boxes only just arriving so rumours are exactly that


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> BBC mentioned Michael cuntface Gove's former aide saying it. Any better source?



Didn't know he had a double barrel name!


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> BBC mentioned Michael cuntface Gove's former aide saying it. Any better source?



Mostly just repeats of what was said but it flooded my twitter feed, probably just referring to that.

Either way, it's a bit of a worrying thought.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


>




can you link to the original tweet? I have some friends who are suffering down there in anticipation at the moment and not sure if they have read this


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

BTW Nick Robinson just tweeted



> Hear that ballot boxes only recently arrived at @edballsmp count so rumour re losing his seat seems to be just that - a rumour


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> Nick Robinson saying that ballot boxes only just arriving so rumours are exactly that


The exact same rumours as last time as well.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Think you've already reached the point where you couldn't dislike Farage any more...?


----------



## teqniq (May 7, 2015)

Please tell me that exit poll is bollox


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Breaking out the emergency Oi Polloi anthem:


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> No money in my pocket and I just can't find no love


have a like


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 7, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Few people mentioning that Ed Balls might be in for a heavy contest for his seat.
> 
> What the fuck is happening tonight?!



He only has just over a 1000 majority?


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Please tell me that exit pol is bollox


Doubt it.


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> The exact same rumours as last time as well.



Rolling coverage, you could probably say you saw Cameron shagging a dog right now and the BBC would give it 5 minutes.


----------



## teqniq (May 7, 2015)




----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

The BBC Exit poll is inconsistent with every other poll, so if the exit pool is right, every other poll is incorrect by 11%.


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

Greens beat libscum again


----------



## paolo (May 7, 2015)

As bad as it is, the key number (arguably) is the final count on anti tory bloc.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Rolling coverage, you could probably say you saw Cameron shagging a dog right now and the BBC would give it 5 minutes.


But to see him doing it twice exactly 5 years apart...


----------



## JimW (May 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> Greens beat libscum again


Lost deposit #2


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> The BBC Exit poll is inconsistent with every other poll, so if the exit pool is right, every other poll is incorrect by 11%.


Those 'don't knows' turn out to have gone tory it seems


----------



## stethoscope (May 7, 2015)

Sunderland Central - Labour hold. Dems lose deposit.


----------



## paolo (May 7, 2015)

paolo said:


> As bad as it is, the key number (arguably) is the final count on anti tory bloc.



(maybe talking my own hopes up. hmm.)


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

Anyone watching RT coverage?


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> Those 'don't knows' turn out to have gone tory it seems


Most never were DK


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

The bloke for UKIP in Sunderland Central looked quite intimidating. 3rd for them there, not far behind the Tories.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> Those 'don't knows' turn out to have gone tory it seems


cunts


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)




----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)




----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

I'm taking solace, whatever the result I can take pleasure from those lost Lib Dem deposits. Sweet sweet yellow tears.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

4% Con->Lab swing was basically the swing predicted in E&W from the polls pre-election


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> You may have misunderstood what they want out of Westminster.



What they will get, if the BBC is right, is what they deserve. Fuck all. The arrogant bastards seem to think they speak for Scotland. They don't. 2 million Scots say they don't, circa 400k of a majority.

They may do well tonight, they will not do nearly so well next year.

There has been a complacency amongst the unionist majority, that will not happen again.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> I'm taking solace, whatever the result I can take pleasure from those lost Lib Dem deposits. Sweet sweet yellow tears.


golden showers


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Nicola Sturgeon will haul our balls out the fire I hope.


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> golden showers



And there was I thinking that wasn't my sort of thing. Never know til you try eh?


----------



## Santino (May 7, 2015)

Someone lock this so I don't have to follow two threads.


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Over the dead bodies of the 55% who rejected the separatist's view. If the blue and yellow vermin get back in, their will not be another referendum.
> 
> I've never been more conflicted over an election.



I think a lot of the 55% have joined the "separatists" camp, they just don't realise it yet.


----------



## articul8 (May 7, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> And you think this is the route that the party will take rather than a move to the right? I'm not asking what you want to see but what you think will happen


ah - well there'll be a fight.  The Progress wing will argue Ed M was too anti-business, left wing etc.  and try to lurch to the right


----------



## Wilf (May 7, 2015)

We'll be running a clothing bank in Middlesbrough on Saturday. Going to need it.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Don't forget that the vermin will be taking us out of the EU. 55%?



Nope. Don't think so. I think that when it actually comes to the vote, a lot of people will go with the devil they know. I would probably vote to stay in, which is quite a shift. It would be a huge degree of uncertainty were we to leave, and whilst I don't doubt we could replace the lost market in Europe, it would take time.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

articul8 said:


> ah - well there'll be a fight.  The Progress wing will argue Ed M was too anti-business, left wing etc.  and try to lurch to the right


lurching? they're all drunk again


----------



## paolo (May 7, 2015)

Santino said:


> Someone lock this so I don't have to follow two threads.



The two threads system?


----------



## J Ed (May 7, 2015)




----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Are they doing any reforcasting from the results already in? I don't have a functioning telly here so a bit in the dark.


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> lurching? they're all drunk again



That's why half of them ended up in the Labour Party, they were aiming for the Tories.


----------



## a_chap (May 7, 2015)

We have two results in so far.

Wot? No comment on U75?


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Nope. Don't think so. I think that when it actually comes to the vote, a lot of people will go with the devil they know. I would probably vote to stay in, which is quite a shift. It would be a huge degree of uncertainty were we to leave, and whilst I don't doubt we could replace the lost market in Europe, it would take time.


Well, if I'm honest I think you're right about the final outcome of an 'In/Out' ref...probably 60/40 ish?
But...that's not really the point wrt the SNP strategy...Cameron will fail to get the EU reforms he wants, so the tories will find themselves be arguing for out...that is what will drive the Indy vote.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> I think a lot of the 55% have joined the "separatists" camp, they just don't realise it yet.



I don't know of a single NO! voter who has changed their mind. 

The SNP are riding a cloud of euphoria at the moment. If they fail to get influence in this election, they are fucked. The Labour defectors will go back home, once they realise that if they want to be in government, they need to vote for a national party.


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Are they doing any reforcasting from the results already in? I don't have a functioning telly here so a bit in the dark.



Nothing yet. Nothing worth repeating anyway.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 7, 2015)

Labour unsurprisingly saying exit poll is at odds with their own sampling. That BBC exit Poll dude must be a nervous man.


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

Here come TUSC!

341. Oh


----------



## J Ed (May 7, 2015)




----------



## Lemon Eddy (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I don't know of a single NO! voter who has changed their mind.



Whereas I know a whole shitload, myself included.


----------



## Santino (May 7, 2015)

Is that Tory called Bob Dhillon?


----------



## passenger (May 7, 2015)

Sunderland win the election


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Campbell's offering to eat his kilt if the polls are right!!


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

a_chap said:


> We have two results in so far.
> 
> Wot? No comment on U75?



3-0. Park the bus lads


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

TUSC candidate for Sunderland West, representing that beautiful pink t-shirt. Happy with his 300 odd votes, good on you lad.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 7, 2015)

Another lost deposit for the libs


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

> Labour are firming up their line on the exit poll. A party source says:
> 
> We are sceptical of the BBC poll. It looks wrong to us.



all posts G/Update.


----------



## Quartz (May 7, 2015)

UKIP beating the Tories into second place in Sunderland. LD lost deposit.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

a_chap said:


> We have two results in so far.
> 
> Wot? No comment on U75?


no ft...


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

3/3 LD deposits


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

Labour now firmly saying exit poll looks wrong


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

Big swings to UKIP. Not anywhere a seat though.


----------



## JimW (May 7, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> TUSC candidate for Sunderland West, representing that beautiful pink t-shirt. Happy with his 300 odd votes, good on you lad.


I'm turning into a stuffy old twat cos I thought who's the prick taking selfies


----------



## Thunderfist (May 7, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> TUSC candidate for Sunderland West, representing that beautiful pink t-shirt. Happy with his 300 odd votes, good on you lad.


 Taking selfies on the platform? Not the best look imho


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

> Faisal Islam
> 
> *✔* @faisalislam
> 
> ...


----------



## Wilf (May 7, 2015)

Quartz said:


> UKIP beating the Tories into second place in Sunderland. LD lost deposit.


the tusc feller at the count looked a knob.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)

Although, it would be quite funny to see Ed Balls kicked out. Every cloud and all that.


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Nope. Don't think so. I think that when it actually comes to the vote, a lot of people will go with the devil they know. I would probably vote to stay in, which is quite a shift. It would be a huge degree of uncertainty were we to leave, and whilst I don't doubt we could replace the lost market in Europe, it would take time.



I think the unionists in Scotland are going to have a lot more to worry about if the exit polls are to be believed, even with sturgeons caveats.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> Labour now firmly saying exit poll looks wrong


Well, they would, wouldn't they?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> 3/3 LD deposits


a proud record


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Weird. I thought Ed Balls just said his own name, like an unpopular Pokemon you catch for completeness' sake but immediately stash in a box, like Mr. Mime


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

SDLP confident of holding Belfast South


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 7, 2015)

Pantsdown says he'll eat his hat if the exit Poll is right. Alistair Campbell his kilt.


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Taking selfies on the platform? Not the best look imho



Aye, bit of dignity wouldn't have gone amiss.


----------



## Casually Red (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> What they will get, if the BBC is right, is what they deserve. Fuck all. The arrogant bastards seem to think they speak for Scotland. They don't. 2 million Scots say they don't, circa 400k of a majority.
> 
> They may do well tonight, they will not do nearly so well next year.
> 
> There has been a complacency amongst the unionist majority, that will not happen again.



Are you mad? Their strength has soared since the referendum . Thousands upon thousands of people joining them . While that pledge thing is a laughing stock now . 
They aren't just " doing well" , they're taking over the entire political scene with the unionist parties facing electoral meltdown and oblivion . The unionists days are over politically , they're finished .


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)

Hmm. Maybe these exit polls are right. After all, Labour are completely shit, aren't they?


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> Pantsdown says he'll eat his hat if the exit Poll is right. Alistair Campbell his kilt.



And Gove will gnaw off him own hands. Or did I imagine that bit?


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> I think the unionists in Scotland are going to have a lot more to worry about if the exit polls are to be believed, even with sturgeons caveats.



Yep. We need to sharpen up our act. Of course, as the unionist haven't even got their horses hitched up yet, never mind the wagons rolling...


----------



## Thunderfist (May 7, 2015)

Dimbleby looks well doddery


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Taking selfies on the platform? Not the best look imho



He knew he wasn't gonna win, I just think he was more happy people actually voted for him. A third of the way to beating the Lib Dems, thats my positive.


----------



## Casually Red (May 7, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> Pantsdown says he'll eat his hat if the exit Poll is right. Alistair Campbell his kilt.



They should eat each other


----------



## comrade spurski (May 7, 2015)

duncanh64 said:


> Agreed; I've had a '1992' feeling all night



I was on all out strike as a social worker in a kids home in plumstead se london in 1992. Strike started in late march and that election in april was seriously horrible...the next day on the picket line was even worse watching smug right wing tory loving scab fucks laughing as the crossed our picket lines.
Was just explaining that feeling to my 17 yr old daughter 5 mins ago.
Knew the result was vary degrees of shit but this is looking like it could be the the exploding dog shit result.


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I don't know of a single NO! voter who has changed their mind.
> 
> The SNP are riding a cloud of euphoria at the moment. If they fail to get influence in this election, they are fucked. The Labour defectors will go back home, once they realise that if they want to be in government, they need to vote for a national party.



To late, sturgeon will have the mandate to go full steam ahead for a new referendum, those who voted SNP thinking they will be able to wring more out of Westminster without worrying about independence are in for a shock, esp if the Tories end up with a clear mandate to govern.


----------



## belboid (May 7, 2015)

Ed miliband represents the 'centre centre left', according to Balls


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Center Center Left leader?


----------



## Mr Moose (May 7, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Taking selfies on the platform? Not the best look imho



Looked a bit of a knob. Like he's seen Rik on the Young Ones and thought it was a documentary.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 7, 2015)

Center Parcs Leader


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Are you mad? Their strength has soared since the referendum . Thousands upon thousands of people joining them . While that pledge thing is a laughing stock now .
> They aren't just " doing well" , they're taking over the entire political scene with the unionist parties facing electoral meltdown and oblivion . The unionists days are over politically , they're finished .



One swallow does not a Summer make. They will have their night tonight, certainly. If the BBC poll is correct (ITBBPIC), they will have swept Scotland, but will not be in power. At that point, there will be a degree of disillusionment.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

belboid said:


> Ed miliband represents the 'centre centre left', according to Balls


in the morning it will.be exit stage right for miliband


----------



## Casually Red (May 7, 2015)

Dammit..if the exit polls accurate I'm not going to get to see Cameron's mob launch that coup they've been threatening . I was looking forward to that .


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Rumours Ed Balls is in trouble, any confirmations?


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> Pantsdown says he'll eat his hat if the exit Poll is right. Alistair Campbell his kilt.



Eric Pickles saying he will eat his local Waitrose.


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> Rumours Ed Balls is in trouble, any confirmations?


No, they've barely started counting


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> Rumours Ed Balls is in trouble, any confirmations?



None, idle rumour by all accounts, no basis.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> To late, sturgeon will have the mandate to go full steam ahead for a new referendum, those who voted SNP thinking they will be able to wring more out of Westminster without worrying about independence are in for a shock, esp if the Tories end up with a clear mandate to govern.



Sturgeon can go for a referendum as hard as she likes. If the status quo ante pertains, she will not get one.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2015)

> OK, the mods decided not to post my last comment, which on reflection, I don't blame them for - it did sound a bit deranged. However, I still state that if this predicted result actually comes about, as someone with significant disabilities, I shall feel in a state of crisis - I've already sent an e-mail to the Samaritans, for what it is worth, though I am not sure what anyone could say that would really help, other than suggesting that I emigrate (believe me, that is precisely what I would do if I could).





There will be more like this, always are when Tories win.

I remember ringing the Samaritans in 87.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> Rumours Ed Balls is in trouble, any confirmations?



Covered upthread. Likely Tory wishful thinking as rumour spread before any ballot boxes had been opened.


----------



## Casually Red (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> One swallow does not a Summer make. They will have their night tonight, certainly. If the BBC poll is correct (ITBBPIC), they will have swept Scotland, but will not be in power. At that point, there will be a degree of disillusionment.



There'll be an electoral mandate for for declaring independence, is what there'll be . Especially if that coup happens .


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> Eric Pickles saying he will eat his local Waitrose.



And all the inhabitants of the constituency it's in.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> Rumours Ed Balls is in trouble, any confirmations?


what's he done now?


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

Ynys Mon too close to call between PC and Labour according to sources in both parties


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> in the morning it will.be exit stage right for miliband


Bit early for that?


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> One swallow does not a Summer make. They will have their night tonight, certainly. If the BBC poll is correct (ITBBPIC), they will have swept Scotland, but will not be in power. At that point, there will be a degree of disillusionment.


Disillusion might have come with political power at Westmimster. As it is, if the exit is correct, their nationalism will remain 'pure' in the comfort zone of opposition to the nasty, English unionist cunts.

Win win for the jocks.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

JTG said:


> Ynys Mon too close to call between PC and Labour according to sources in both parties


Come on Leanne!


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Sturgeon can go for a referendum as hard as she likes. If the status quo ante pertains, she will not get one.


She's repeatedly said that she's not looking for another referendum in the short term, but don't let that get in the way of your "Nazi" nightmares.


----------



## teqniq (May 7, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> Hmm. Maybe these exit polls are right. After all, Labour are completely shit, aren't they?


Well yes, but if the poll is to be believed then people are voting for the shitier of the two main shit things. What does that say about us collectively? Nothing flattering I surmise.


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> Eric Pickles saying he will eat his local Waitrose.



He looks like he already has, stopped shopping at Tescos hence their financial woes.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> Rumours Ed Balls is in trouble, any confirmations?



Bollocks apparently, boxes have only just been delivered to the count. Shit-stirring.


BBC are taking the line on legitimacy of Tories having the highest number of seats, fair play to Balls for calling bullshit on it.


----------



## Roadkill (May 7, 2015)

Just how much whisky does Sammy Wilson drink, I wonder.


----------



## JimW (May 7, 2015)

Suddenly realise why Vine's other job is game shows


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> None, idle rumour by all accounts, no basis.



Not fond ofBalls. 


Casually Red said:


> There'll be an electoral mandate for for declaring independence, is what there'll be . Especially if that coup happens .



And Cameron would have, what exactly, to lose by telling her to fuck off? Tories are a completely busted flush in Scotland.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 7, 2015)

No result talking, but I really like all the colours and graphics that the BBC have.

It makes me smile in a childish way.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 7, 2015)

BBC forecast just showed Thurrock as labour.  Where's the 2nd UKIP then?


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

JimW said:


> Suddenly realise why Vine's other job is game shows


R4 is good.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

The exit poll can maybe squared with the other polling if labour are scoring well (at least as well or within sight of the tories) outside of the 130 marginals the exit poll polled - in their safe seats. Level popular vote _can _produce the exit poll result.


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

They should do all the graphics in a game of GTA, make it less fucking tedious.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 7, 2015)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> BBC forecast just showed Thurrock as labour.  Where's the 2nd UKIP then?



Boston and Skegness?


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> BBC forecast just showed Thurrock as labour.  Where's the 2nd UKIP then?


In polling land


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Sturgeon can go for a referendum as hard as she likes. If the status quo ante pertains, she will not get one.


Neither of you two have any idea what you're talking about. It's hilarious.


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2015)

Balls batted off dimbleby well there.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

The BBC seems to be on acid tonight.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

I know the endless minute-by-minute coverage has to be filled with some old arse or other but do they always behave as though their (mad) prediction is current fact?


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Sturgeon can go for a referendum as hard as she likes. If the status quo ante pertains, she will not get one.


If it's a labour wipeout and given the Tories are already gone, do you think there will be much opposition to an SNP demand for another referendum outside Scotland?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> Rumours Ed Balls is in trouble, any confirmations?


Ed Ball's majority is only 1000, so it's marginal anyway

result around 4.30am


----------



## xenon (May 7, 2015)

Well this is fun.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> In polling land



They're making shit up


----------



## andysays (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Yep. We need to sharpen up our act. Of course, as the unionist haven't even got their horses hitched up yet, never mind the wagons rolling...



To continue the equine metaphors, I think you may find you're shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted...


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> Balls batted off dimbleby well there.


Yeah Dimbleby is a fool


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Disillusion might have come with political power at Westmimster. As it is, if the exit is correct, their nationalism will remain 'pure' in the comfort zone of opposition to the nasty, English unionist cunts.
> 
> Win win for the jocks.



A huge loss for Scotland, and for Britain.


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> A huge loss for Scotland, and for Britain.


No such thing as 'Britain' politically.


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> Rumours Ed Balls is in trouble, any confirmations?





JTG said:


> No, they've barely started counting





YouSir said:


> None, idle rumour by all accounts, no basis.


But cameron did shag a dog


----------



## Sprocket. (May 7, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Aye, bit of dignity wouldn't have gone amiss.



True, have a bit of fucking decorum man!


----------



## JTG (May 7, 2015)

They'd have to be doing way worse in the marginals than any polling has observed - they've generally been doing BETTER there


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2015)

coley said:


> Bit early for that?


maybe the afternoon then


----------



## Dogsauce (May 7, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Ed Ball's majority is only 1000, so it's marginal anyway
> 
> result around 4.30am



That was based on a 'decapitation' strategy last time where the Tories tried really hard - don't think there's been as much effort this time round. Think that seat will have a strong UKIP showing, though that could drain the Labour vote as much as the Tory one.


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Not fond ofBalls.
> 
> 
> And Cameron would have, what exactly, to lose by telling her to fuck off? Tories are a completely busted flush in Scotland.


And what would he have to lose by saying "by all means Nicola, just as soon as you can arrange it"?


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 7, 2015)

I suspect Balls' problem could be Labour voters turning to UKIP and the Tory vote standing up.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 7, 2015)

Got home about 20 minutes ago, walked into my parents' living room and they both turned to look at me and said "have you heard?". I thought "christ, what the hell could have happened this early?!", then they told me about 316


----------



## cesare (May 7, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Dimbleby looks well doddery


Yes, not just me thinking that, then.


----------



## elbows (May 7, 2015)

Waiting for my local result, Nuneaton, has never been quite so tense for me. Thats assuming they haven't massively cocked up the ETA of that result. (1am-1.30am-ish)


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> A huge loss for Scotland, and for Britain.


Whey, Scotland certainly.


----------



## YouSir (May 7, 2015)

Greens, one more MP would be a massive change. Fuck I voted TUSC and even I dream bigger than that. Even worse, so do UKIP.


----------



## frogwoman (May 7, 2015)

It cant be 316 can it???


----------



## JimW (May 7, 2015)

My main tactical error was underestimating how much beer I needed.


----------



## rekil (May 7, 2015)

Labour "the centre-centre-left". 

Seeing people scoffing at this. Who said it?


----------



## coley (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Bollocks apparently, boxes have only just been delivered to the count. Shit-stirring.
> 
> 
> BBC are taking the line on legitimacy of Tories having the highest number of seats, fair play to Balls for calling bullshit on it.


Based on exit polls I suppose?


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2015)

copliker said:


> Labour "the centre-centre-left".
> 
> Seeing people scoffing at this. Who said it?


Mr balls.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 7, 2015)

Lib dems suck rotting donkey cock


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

copliker said:


> Labour "the centre-centre-left".
> 
> Seeing people scoffing at this. Who said it?



Ed Balls


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> It cant be 316 can it???


No.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2015)

Can't remember the name of this Tory knobber, who is he? He's talking shite. So many of them don't seem to get how it works should there be no majority


----------



## rekil (May 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Mr balls.


So much for "hope".


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Well yes, but if the poll is to be believed then people are voting for the shitier of the two main shit things. What does that say about us collectively? Nothing flattering I surmise.



Would Labour have been less shittier? It's easy to delude ourselves that they would have been, but past evidence says otherwise. Unfortunately.


----------



## JimW (May 7, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Can't remember the name of this Tory knobber, who is he? He's talking shite. So many of them don't seem to get how it works should there be no majority


BBC undermining the constitution


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 7, 2015)

Galloway gone?


----------



## Supine (May 7, 2015)

3:0 to labour. They're smashing it


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)




----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 7, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> BBC are taking the line on legitimacy of Tories having the highest number of seats...


This line will be replayed to death by the tories in the coming days….it's the battle for the messages on the front pages, the "mood of the nation" and all that bollocks. The legal and constitutional rules don't look good for the tories, so they're deploying an extra weapon...


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> It cant be 316 can it???


not quite according to sunderland,

exit has con -> lab 3.5%, sunderland's 3 seats = 4%.

So bad, but not quite as bad as exit...maybe?


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 7, 2015)

Next stop EU referendum. Wonder if they will bring it forwards a year.


----------



## JimW (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Galloway gone?


It's just there by Dumfries


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Galloway gone?


He's coming to your house to sodomise you in the name of Allah


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 7, 2015)

copliker said:


> Labour "the centre-centre-left".
> 
> Seeing people scoffing at this. Who said it?


Yeah, we caught that too. Bloody ridiculous.


----------



## JimW (May 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> not quite according to sunderland,
> 
> exit has con -> lab 3.5%, sunderland's 3 seats = 4%.
> 
> So bad, but not quite as bad as exit...maybe?


Is swing usually less.in seats you hold?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Galloway gone?


Still just a rumour. But I'll drink to that anyway. Nasty misogynist rape apologist.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2015)

Rumours that Danny Alexander has gone 

*"Danny Alexander 'has lost his seat', Lib Dems says"*


----------



## brogdale (May 7, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He's coming to your house to sodomise you in the name of Allah


bishop's finger on keyboard moment...first of night.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 7, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


>




Did you eventually come around to twitter, danny?


----------



## teqniq (May 7, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> Would Labour have been less shittier?...


Not by very much, but that was implied in what I wrote.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 7, 2015)

Morley has its share of knuckleheads. 3000 BNP votes last time. Plus 8k Lib Dems. With a 1k majority I'd say Balls would do well to hold on. But I know nothing


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Can't remember the name of this Tory knobber, who is he? He's talking shite. So many of them don't seem to get how it works should there be no majority


Michael Fallon, former defence secretary


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He's coming to your house to sodomise you in the name of Allah



I would be startled, but not surprised.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Did you eventually come around to twitter, danny?


I'm a late adopter by nature.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> Is swing usually less.in seats you hold?


'kippers were strong...that could be the story for Lab in lots of places?


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Rumours that Danny Alexander has gone
> 
> *"Danny Alexander 'has lost his seat', Lib Dems says"*



Where's that from? Terrific if true


----------



## machine cat (May 8, 2015)

Please no.

ETA: The exit poll, not the above post.


----------



## krink (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> the tusc feller at the count looked a knob.


No 'looked' about it mate, he's a fucking prick. He pretty much single handedly destroyed the anti-cuts movement in Sunderland. Biggest egotistical control freak I've ever known.


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

Midnight. Lots of results will start to come in during the next hour.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

copliker said:


> Labour "the centre-centre-left".
> 
> Seeing people scoffing at this. Who said it?



Balls said it, but it was to describe the alliance put together by Labour (including LDs presumably).


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 8, 2015)

As much as I want to gloat about the death of the lib scum, im really torn on what is emerging here.
fuck
fuck
fuck

Although that evasive shithole Louse Danny Alexander losing his seat would be some recompense


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Where's that from? Terrific if true


Daily Mail scottish editor, I got it from the Guardian feed.


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Where's that from? Terrific if true


BBC Scotland coverage.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> Is swing usually less.in seats you hold?



Generally. The bigger your majority last time though, the more difficult to increase it.


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)




----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Ashcroft data coming soon...


----------



## Eggby (May 8, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> Would Labour have been less shittier? It's easy to delude ourselves that they would have been, but past evidence says otherwise. Unfortunately.



I still believe that they would be better for the country than the Tories


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

rumours of danny alexander losing his seat


----------



## elbows (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Can't remember the name of this Tory knobber, who is he? He's talking shite. So many of them don't seem to get how it works should there be no majority



Michael Fallon, Defence Secretary. 

Some of them do know how it works, but their game is to attempt to undermine the legitimacy of certain options that might be available to Labour.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Ashcroft data coming soon...



And how much more credence will this have as opposed to the YouGov or BBC Exit Poll?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

Is it just the exit poll freaking people out? Is anything backing that up?


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

a_chap said:


> Midnight. Lots of results will start to come in during the next hour.


Wish it were, it'll be after 1 more likely.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Is it just the exit poll freaking people out? Is anything backing that up?



Well, kind of; and no, not really. But I'm very very far from an expert voice around these parts.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

If UKIP do well in NE, 20% Ukip in NE at moment, I won't be surprised, I have relatives there and have heard lots of anti-foreigner comments, when I lived there, the BNP were very visible as well, I imagine many feel betrayed by the one party state labour they have there as well..


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> And how much more credence will this have as opposed to the YouGov or BBC Exit Poll?


Well, depends what it is and what/who it asks, but it is a large scale undertaking apparently.


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> Hmm. Maybe these exit polls are right. After all, Labour are completely shit, aren't they?



No, but their leadership certainly is, Milliband backstabbed his own brother,urged on by the unions then back stabbed the unions who got him elected as LPL, not an inspiring record, if predictions are right,then he is the main reason why labour are going to spend the next five years in opposition and the majority of us are going to be eating Shyte sandwiches.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

Ashcroft on Twitter saying he has some "interesting data"

He's due on LBC.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

It'll be worse


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Lib dems suck rotting donkey cock



It's looking like they might not even be a dribble.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

Eggby said:


> I still believe that they would be better for the country than the Tories


----------



## jakethesnake (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> It'll be worse


expectation management


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

12k sample


----------



## elbows (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Wish it were, it'll be after 1 more likely.



Yep, and then the highest rate of results not starting for another hour after that.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> And how much more credence will this have as opposed to the YouGov or BBC Exit Poll?



An exit poll is just that. I would be interested in the degree of honesty of response.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

elbows said:


> Yep, and then the highest rate of results not starting for another hour after that.


And clegg not till after 4 at the earliest.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Is it just the exit poll freaking people out? Is anything backing that up?


good point. Only rumours really, from what I can see.

Very powerful way of directing the discourse & tone though…

Tomorrow's front pages already leaning towards the tories


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> It'll be worse


He's been bit Cassandra from a Tory pov so far, hasn't he? Surely he'll stick with that, like earlier exit poll bloke validating his previous work


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Very low turnouts in NE


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> An exit poll is just that. I would be interested in the degree of honesty of response.


Would being pretty much 100% correct in 2005 and 2010 tell you anything?


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

Tories 'quietly confident' of holding Nuneaton :/


----------



## krink (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> TUSC candidate for Sunderland West, representing that beautiful pink t-shirt. Happy with his 300 odd votes, good on you lad.


He's a toxic cunt who ruined the anti cuts groups in Sunderland. Wish the returning officer had chinned him.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

Ashcroft saying 34% Tory 31% Labour.


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Would being pretty much 100% correct in 2005 and 2010 tell you anything?



To be depressed?


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Ashcroft says exit poll is inconsitent with his findings - he has 34/31 tory/lab


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

krink said:


> He's a toxic cunt who ruined the anti cuts groups in Sunderland. Wish the returning officer had chinned him.



Any more on that?


----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

If the predictions are out by ten seats for the tories-they will struggle to form a goverment-the outcome could be unworkable


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

14% UKIP. 9% Lib Dems. 7% Greens


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Ashcroft says exit poll is inconsitent with his findings - he has 34/31 tory/lab


Genuinely going to be interesting to see this unfold


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

What was Green share of vote last time? Nowhere near 7% I'm guessing?


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Is it worth staying up for then?, I never really expected a labour win, but something that would temper the Tories brutalities.


----------



## krink (May 8, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Any more on that?


Yeah fucking loads..but save it for another time!


----------



## Doctor Carrot (May 8, 2015)

What kind of cunt has said 'Ooh? 5 years more of this shit? Yes please!'


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> What was Green share of vote last time? Nowhere near 7% I'm guessing?


I'd be very surprised at that.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> What was Green share of vote last time? Nowhere near 7% I'm guessing?


0.9%


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> rumours of danny alexander losing his seat


Only potential good news I've found is:


> BBC report: "Rumours coming in that George Galloway has lost his seat."


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> If the predictions are out by ten seats for the tories-they will struggle to form a goverment-the outcome could be unworkable



But they're openly talking about a constitutional crisis and any labour snp pact  
as having no constitutional legitimacy , a coup basically . And they'll have no shortage of media backing for it either .


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> Is it worth staying up for then?, I never really expected a labour win, but something that would temper the Tories brutalities.


If you can't see that this is worth staying up for...ffs


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I'd be very surprised at that.


If it is up there will be interesting to see the marginals figures for them.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

Doctor Carrot said:


> What kind of cunt has said 'Ooh? 5 years more of this shit? Yes please!'



The cunts who are doing well out of it or are too stupid to care.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I'd be very surprised at that.



Yeah seems too much to my untrained eye. Still, I suspect a lot of young voters might have gone that way, maybe LibDem from last election? #tuitionfees


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

How many seats Conservative and how many seats LibDem in 2010?


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

Supposedly a very odd interview with Farage on ITV, didn't seem a happy man at all. Anyone see it?


----------



## aqua (May 8, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> The cunts who are doing well out of it or are too stupid to care.


Those that see their own world being killed. Not considering the impacts on others.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Is it just the exit poll freaking people out? Is anything backing that up?



Pretty much. The poor showing of the Lib Dems so far - three lost deposits - seems to give it some credence.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

I see the yellow scum have lost three deposits so far then.


----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> But they're openly talking about a constitutional crisis and any labour snp pact
> as having no constitutional legitimacy , a coup basically . And they'll have no shortage of media backing for it either .


 
Im sure they wont but the majority of the country didnt vote tory or indeed for a coalition-but thems the rules.


----------



## pennimania (May 8, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> The cunts who are doing well out of it or are too stupid to care.



but that's what puzzles me -there aren't really that many really wealthy people and if they don't care, then probably they won't be arsed to drag themselves to the polling station to vote?

I mean the don't cares probably don't vote.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Itv have labour on six seats, where have these other three come from?


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Ashcroft says exit poll is inconsitent with his findings - he has 34/31 tory/lab



Interesting. How will this prediction translate into seats; can you tell?


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Itv have labour on six seats, where have these other three come from?


galloway seems to be one, some reporting that as result


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Now a debilitating three hours before real numbers start to happen.

Aarrrghhh (etc).


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Itv have labour on six seats, where have these other three come from?


useless wankers


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Interesting. How will this prediction translate into seats; can you tell?


Absolutely no idea!  That isn't even ness inconsistent with the BBC/ITV exit poll.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Has anyone found percentages for the exit poll - or is there just the seat projections available?


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)




----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

haha some DUP bloke got a shout- thats a first. Robinson is now guilting me with his cancerouse rasp. I've hated the fucker for so long but wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Best election night ever, dimblebum though. Who asked this cunt to be MC. Fucking bellend


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> Im sure they wont but the majority of the country didnt vote tory or indeed for a coalition-but thems the rules.


But it's rubbish to say that if they are only ten seats short the Tories couldn't form a government. You'd have to have pretty much every other party in the HoC vote against them in a MoC/MoNC. Even if Labour had the guts to do that would the LDs? The DUP?

If the exit polls are right then Cameron will be PM, with or without LD support.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Has anyone found percentages for the exit poll - or is there just the seat projections available?


They won't give them, never do (probably something to do with that would suggest a national based rather than 130 marginal seat projection - or something).


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

Vine claiming Carmichael holds Stroud. Can't be right. Please.


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2015)

ITV say 6-0?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> They won't give them, never do (probably something to do with that would suggest a national based rather than 130 marginal seat projection - or something).


ah ok, ta, didnt catch on the polling was only in selected areas


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> Vine claiming Carmichael holds Stroud. Can't be right. Please.


No way, can't be right


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 8, 2015)

Barfwell hold Croydon Central? Please no...


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

eatmorecheese said:


> Barfwell hold Croydon Central? Please no...


source?


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

This could be telling re: Lib Dems vote collapse. Who benefits? 
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/will-labour-or-tories-benefit-most-lib-dem-collapse


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> Vine claiming Carmichael holds Stroud. Can't be right. Please.


That would be a result three hours early!


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> Vine claiming Carmichael holds Stroud. Can't be right. Please.





eatmorecheese said:


> Barfwell hold Croydon Central? Please no...


This vine thing isn't results people - it's what would be implied by exit poll figures


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

Early sampling in Glasgow counts 'spectacular' for SNP


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Tom Harris says he's unlikely to be MP for Glasgow South tomorrow.


----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> But it's rubbish to say that if they are only ten seats short the Tories couldn't form a government. You'd have to have pretty much every other party in the HoC vote against them in a MoC/MoNC. Even if Labour had the guts to do that would the LDs? The DUP?
> 
> If the exit polls are right then Cameron will be PM, with or without LD support.



It'll be tight for 316 seats and a minority government-if its lower then its more of a struggle for the tories. I predict whatever happens in terms of the tories winning 316 or less seats-goverment wont last 5 years.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

The BBC says the seat it expects the Greens to gain is Norwich South.


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> That would be a result three hours early!


Get that, hoping it means this exit poll is well off if that's his basis.


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

BBC expects Green gain to be Norwich South


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> source?


watching beeb graphics


----------



## voiceofreason (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Is it just the exit poll freaking people out? Is anything backing that up?



It's enough, believe me. They know what they're doing. They've tried to cover their bases. But bear in mind that much will depend on how the vote breaks down in key marginals where there will often be 3 or more competing parties. It looks very much that Cameron will end up keeping the keys to number 10. But small differences in the number of seats could have a big impact on his ability to form a stable government and pass legislation.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> Vine claiming Carmichael holds Stroud. Can't be right. Please.


THis is just posturing based on the exit poll…

WOrrying times tho


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

eatmorecheese said:


> watching beeb graphics


Seriously, turn that shit off and listen to the radio.


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 8, 2015)

I need to calm down tbh


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> The BBC says the seat it expects the Greens to gain is Norwich South.


It would always seem the most likely choice, second best result last time


----------



## twentythreedom (May 8, 2015)

Paxman clearly fucking pissed off at being on C4


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

More on ashcroft and his war on the exit poll - 11% of people decided this week of that 11% 27% went to the Tories and 30% to Labour.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Malcolm Bruce saying Lib Dems have probably lost Gordon to Alex Salmond.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Bets on how long till Nick robinson completely loses his voice??


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> It'll be tight for 316 seats and a minority government-if its lower then its more of a struggle for the tories. I predict whatever happens in terms of the tories winning 316 or less seats-goverment wont last 5 years.


Will it. There's already plenty of noise from the Labour right that they can't be a government if they have fewer seats than the Tories. _If_ the exit polls are correct then I think it's odds on that the new Labour leader would be from the right and that the party would refuse to vote down a Tory QS. Cameron can just call there bluff as Wilson did in similar circumstances and when the Tories abstained on the QS.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> This could be telling re: Lib Dems vote collapse. Who benefits?
> http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/will-labour-or-tories-benefit-most-lib-dem-collapse



Well according to the BBC it seems that the Tories may hoover up a lot of libdem seats. Further evidence that you should never trust a libdem supporter.


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> THis is just posturing based on the exit poll…
> 
> WOrrying times tho


Yeah, realise, should have phrased my wail better. If this is the.detail poll must be off


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> It'll be tight for 316 seats and a minority government-if its lower then its more of a struggle for the tories. I predict whatever happens in terms of the tories winning 316 or less seats-goverment wont last 5 years.




They are going to make sure they vote through a whole lot of hurt in the first 100 days, labour will be in no fit state to respond.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> Paxman clearly fucking pissed off at being on C4


Saw the first minute of that. Abysmal, had to turn over


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Malcolm Bruce saying Lib Dems have probably lost Gordon to Alex Salmond.


That's probably cos they've lost all their seats, so that would fit!


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> But it's rubbish to say that if they are only ten seats short the Tories couldn't form a government. You'd have to have pretty much every other party in the HoC vote against them in a MoC/MoNC. Even if Labour had the guts to do that would the LDs? The DUP?
> 
> If the exit polls are right then Cameron will be PM, with or without LD support.



A Tory minority government is probably the least bad option - they wouldnt be able to do anything, the Eurosceptic wing would have about 1% of the influence that they would if they had a slim majority, Labour would get time to purge itself of the cretinry that have got it into this mess, and the SNP would be a sizeable but irrelevant presence.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 8, 2015)

Pasokification


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

that's fucking insane!


----------



## pennimania (May 8, 2015)

is it just me - or are the declarations later than usual? Only three so far.....perhaps I've forgotten.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> It would always seem the most likely choice, second best result last time



That would be a 15% swing. Greens finished 4th last time.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> More on ashcroft and his war on the exit poll - 11% of people decided this week of that 11% 27% went to the Tories and 30% to Labour.



Wonder if the post '92 exit strategy of only looking at marginals will survive this?


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> More on ashcroft and his war on the exit poll - 11% of people decided this week of that 11% 27% went to the Tories and 30% to Labour.



do you have any gut feelings about the BBC exit poll?


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Genuinely going to be interesting to see this unfold



Yep.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

ACCUSATIONS OF SHENANIGANS


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Pasokification


..in one nation...so far.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 8, 2015)

pennimania said:


> is it just me - or are the declarations later than usual? Only three so far.....perhaps I've forgotten.


High turnout and local elections too are slowing it all down.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> A Tory minority government is probably the least bad option - they wouldnt be able to do anything,


Why? This idea that minority govs can't do anything is rubbish. They'd have to choose their battles but it could get plenty of the legislation it want's thought the HoC. 


agricola said:


> Labour would get time to purge itself of the cretinry that have got it into this mess,


What and elect another Balirite, you might call that a good option I don't.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Nuneaton a bellweather I've read. (result soon?)


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> ACCUSATIONS OF SHENANIGANS


Fortunately no jiggery-pokery


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Wonder if the post '92 exit strategy of only looking at marginals will survive this?


A lot of things _somewhere _are going to have to change i expect.


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Nuneaton a bellweather I've read.


I went there a while back, it's actually a shithole


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> The cunts who are doing well out of it or are too stupid to care.



The two are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

> Exit poll: Disaster predicted for Labour as Tories surge to 316 seats
> *Conservatives forecast to be just 10 seats short of a majority as Labour fall to 239 seats and Lib Dems collapse to 10.*
> *http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/exit-poll-disaster-predicted-labour-tories-surge-316-seats*



New Statesman Blairites seem exultant


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> Fortunately no jiggery-pokery



Exit Poll predicts folderol mind


----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Will it. There's already plenty of noise from the Labour right that they can't be a government if they have fewer seats than the Tories. _If_ the exit polls are correct then I think it's odds on that the new Labour leader would be from the right and that the party would refuse to vote down a Tory QS. Cameron can just call there bluff as Wilson did in similar circumstances and when the Tories abstained on the QS.




It'll be tight-unlike the coalition that had a decent majority-a government of 316 seats will struggle. Remember there's likely gains for Plaid and Greens...add to that the SNP and the tories will struggle to win votes. I just dont think this is 2010. The figures dont make up a clear majority.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> that's fucking insane!




A real festival of democracy


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

coley said:


> No, but their leadership certainly is, Milliband backstabbed his own brother .


You're buying into tory media bullshit......he stood against him and won, so how is this stabbing him in the back?


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

kebabking said:


> do you have any gut feelings about the BBC exit poll?


I do, i think it's going to be around 15-20 too high for tories, maybe 10 too low for lib-dems - and so 10-15 ish too low for labour. Small change, large effect.

(BBC/ITV btw)


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

Labour rubbishing claims about Norwich South


----------



## pennimania (May 8, 2015)

I suppose one can at least be pleased that turnouts seem to be increased.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

To add to that post - it may even prove to be wildy wrong. Even that is still on the table. For example - It predicts, if correct, a  green win in Norwich south, labour reckon they are miles in the lead


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

pennimania said:


> I suppose one can at least be pleased that turnouts seem to be increased.


Holy fuck


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I do, i think it's going to be around 15-20 too high for tories, maybe 10 too low for lib-dems - and so 10-15 ish too low for labour. Small change, large effect.
> 
> (BBC/ITV btw)



cheers.

methodology problem, people telling porkies (though god alone knows why..)?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> It'll be tight-unlike the coalition that had a decent majority-a government of 316 seats will struggle. Remember there's likely gains for Plaid and Greens...add to that the SNP and the tories will struggle to win votes. I just dont think this is 2010. The figures dont make up a clear majority.


Well the last point is wrong, a Con/LD coalition would have a majority. But really they don't need one, 316 + 2 UKIP + 10 LD + DUP would give them enough room to manoeuvre. Sure they would lose the occasional vote but could survive for a long time.


On an unrelated note Guardian feed has
Labour are saying that the BBC suggestion that the Greens will win Norwich South (see 0.24am) is “well wide of the mark”.
The Greens privately don't think Norwich South possible this time - Bristol West only seat they *could* gain @georgeeaton


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

kebabking said:


> cheers.
> 
> methodology problem, people telling porkies (though god alone knows why..)?


I think the 5 party shake-up vs 2.5 thing is what may prove to have caused problems. Exactly how, i don't know yet though.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

I think someone at the BBC polling has got their Excel formula mixed up.

Probably used sum instead of sumif

☺


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2015)

I'd be astonished if the Greens win Norwich South (or a 2nd seat at all). More likely a couple of very strong losing showings.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Why? This idea that minority govs can't do anything is rubbish. They'd have to choose their battles but it could get plenty of the legislation it want's thought the HoC.
> 
> What and elect another Balirite, you might call that a good option I don't.



They wont elect another Blairite - for a start, there arent any of any kind of ability left - and a Tory majority government of that size would not be able to do that much ideological stuff, especially if Gove is still Chief Whip.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 8, 2015)

kebabking said:


> cheers.
> 
> methodology problem, people telling porkies (though god alone knows why..)?


tbh had I been asked I would have probably lied for the lols


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> To add to that post - it may even prove to be wildy wrong. Even that is still on the table. For example - It predicts, if correct, a  green win in Norwich south, labour reckon they are miles in the lead


Even the Greens think Bris West is the only one they could gain. BBC are miles away


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

A result! Bollocks. 

Another libdem lost deposit tho


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

The sad decline of Swindon


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

Fucking Swindon. Perpetual embarrassment to the West Country


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> Fucking Swindon. Perpetual embarrassment to the West Country


any swing number?


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

BBC might have much egg to wipe off face...


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

Latest news*:* desperately undersupplied in the wine department


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> any swing number?


Still fucking about, get a move on BBC


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

Douglas Alexander in trouble apparently


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

a_chap said:


> Latest news*:* desperately undersupplied in the wine department



huge swing to beer


----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Well the last point is wrong, a Con/LD coalition would have a majority. But really they don't need one, 316 + 2 UKIP + 10 LD + DUP would give them enough room to manoeuvre. Sure they would lose the occasional vote but could survive for a long time.
> 
> 
> On an unrelated note Guardian feed has
> ...




Thats assuming the tories dont want to run a minority goverment-and also into the mix, thats a poor rainbow coalition with many differences-some fundamental ones too. How would a coalition of a tiny amount of seats win compromise in a tory coalition? The tories certainly needed the lib dems more last time around-this time they need them even less.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> Douglas Alexander in trouble apparently


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

Norwich South: If half the lib dems shift to greens they can get it. Seat was narrowly taken from Labour last time, so most LDs voters last time round would have been anti-labour not a left anti-Tory vote, so might be disinclined to go back to them.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> Douglas Alexander in trouble apparently


not in as much as he should be


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> Douglas Alexander in trouble apparently


Asked to pick a flavour of crisps?


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


>


No Douglas. Danny's going too though


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


>


Wrong Alexander Brother.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 8, 2015)

Not looking a good night for the Alexander coalition


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


>



Muppets indeed.


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> huge swing to beer


I'll be forced to fall back on tea soon due to a poor campaign in Tesco earlier


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Norwich South: If half the lib dems shift to greens they can get it. Seat was narrowly taken from Labour last time, so most LDs voters last time round would have been anti-labour not a left anti-Tory vote, so might be disinclined to go back to them.


Greens say they've not won .


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

Theresa May's One Eye. Folk Rock band.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2015)

What was the South Swindon result in full? Take it Lib Dems lost deposit?

Eta. Or even North!


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> Thats assuming the tories dont want to run a minority goverment-and also into the mix, thats a poor rainbow coalition with many differences-some fundamental ones too. How would a coalition of a tiny amount of seats win compromise in a tory coalition? The tories certainly needed the lib dems more last time around-this time they need them even less.


I'm not saying there is going to be a (formal) coalition, that pro-Tory block is not going to vote against a Tory QS - even if Labour have the guts to do that (which they don't IMO).


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> I'll be forced to fall back on tea soon due to a poor campaign in Tesco earlier


no 'minor party' shorts in da house?


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> No Douglas. Danny's going too though



bah


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

My god Sky News are shit. Completely missed that result announcement as they were busy following Al Murray about the place.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> What was the South Swindon result in full? Take it Lib Dems lost deposit?


#Conservative 50.3% (+5.7) #Labour 27.8% (-2.7) #UKIP 15.4% (+11.7) #LibDems 3.3% (-14.0) #Greens  3.3% (+2.3)


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> I'll be forced to fall back on tea soon due to a poor campaign in Tesco earlier



I've only gone and voted on principle haven't I and have no booze in


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

The politicos actually say the right thing when asked 'what will you do if...' - they say 'we don't know, we'll have to wait till the actual results come out'. Pity they can't stick to the logic of their position and stay off the fucking telly till 4 a.m.  Also, would someone mind punching Dimblebycunt in the face?


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> What was the South Swindon result in full? Take it Lib Dems lost deposit?
> 
> Eta. Or even North!



Like it's in a rift in space and time


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> no 'minor party' shorts in da house?


I'll have to search the cupboards but no shy voters I fear


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Swindon N a 4% ish swing lab-->con. Uh oh.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> #Conservative 50.3% (+5.7) #Labour 27.8% (-2.7) #UKIP 15.4% (+11.7) #LibDems 3.3% (-14.0) #Greens  3.3% (+2.3)


blimey...that's 'kipper damage again


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> #Conservative 50.3% (+5.7) #Labour 27.8% (-2.7) #UKIP 15.4% (+11.7) #LibDems 3.3% (-14.0) #Greens  3.3% (+2.3)


Dreadful vote for Labour, Lab voters going green and LD voters going Tory.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Mrs hatter has dispatched herself to the 24 hr off licence 

Exit polls suggest 3 gains for the cider can party


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I do, i think it's going to be around 15-20 too high for tories, maybe 10 too low for lib-dems - and so 10-15 ish too low for labour. Small change, large effect.
> 
> (BBC/ITV btw)




God, I hope so, there were queues of youngsters in the big cities, they don't vote Tory


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

Only four results in and I've run out. This was not predicted by ANY of the pollsters. What a shocker!


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

I fucking hate the fucking Tories and their greedy fucking Tory pals. That is all for now.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

"all three main parties have lost" - Labour seem to have found their mantra early.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

a_chap said:


> Only four results in and I've run out. This was not predicted by ANY of the pollsters. What a shocker!


poor sample size


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> I fucking hate the fucking Tories and their greedy fucking Tory pals. That is all for now.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Swindon N a 4% ish swing lab-->con. Uh oh.



Yep, this is the first really worrying result


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Swindon North. You twats.


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

oryx said:


> You're buying into tory media bullshit......he stood against him and won, so how is this stabbing him in the back?


Iirc, the party and it's members favoured his brother?  Ed got in through the backing of the unions who he then backslided when they asked for his endorsement of their industrial action?
I don't like the Tories one bit, but I absolutely detest the labour Tory lite.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> "all three main parties have lost" - Labour seem to have found their mantra early.


Mandlescum...a real cunts' cunt if ever there were one


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

Don't worry, Preston will hammer them in the play-offs.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Another Lib Dem lost deposit in Swindon?


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

> Here's what Neil Kinnock told me when I interviewed him in this week's _NS_: "That's always a danger ... There’s a superstition that somehow a Tory government will look after your pocket, it’s a triumph of propaganda over reality and people who tell pollsters that they’re not sure or they’re not going to vote Conservative will, in the privacy of the ballot booth, say: 'To hell with it, I’ll stick with what I know because they say they’re going to cut my taxes’ - even when their record is of course to have put taxes up.'"



from NS


----------



## Supine (May 8, 2015)

Bbc1 is shit tonight. I'm back off to c4!


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Swindon North. You twats.


is that bottle in hand at top volume out of the window? that's how I'm seeing it in my head!


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Recount in Bradford West, it seems.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Wandsworth coming up.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Well according to the BBC it seems that the Tories may hoover up a lot of libdem seats. Further evidence that you should never trust a libdem supporter.



How does that work then considering the haemorrhaging of support  was meant to be down to libdem voters feelingt betrayed by Nick selling out to the Tories?  Is it that as a portion of them peel away to vote labour or Green, or other 'left' parties, those left are more right leaning, see their libdem vote would be worthless so defect to the Tories?


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Mrs hatter has dispatched herself to the 24 hr off licence
> 
> Exit polls suggest 3 gains for the cider can party


No greater love...


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> from NS


put that fucking rag down, tree


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

a_chap said:


> Latest news*:* desperately undersupplied in the wine department


Ditto, but oversupplied in the spirits dept, hence get to sleep before being hammered by the currently sleeping, silent majority


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> No greater love...


sounds like a landcide


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Wandsworth coming up.


Putney


----------



## tbtommyb (May 8, 2015)

Someone put nick Robinson out of his misery


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

galloway demands recount


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

This persistent talk of minority Conservative rule or alliance with another party irks me. I'd like to see one of the politicians take thesis out of the BBC by suggesting an alliance with Labour.


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> galloway demands recount



So the gobshite's lost?


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Putney held by the vermin


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> One swallow does not a Summer make. They will have their night tonight, certainly. If the BBC poll is correct (ITBBPIC), they will have swept Scotland, but will not be in power. At that point, there will be a degree of disillusionment.



And who is then going to lead the unionist fight back against them then ? 

" speaking in the BBC scotland studio is..erm..some bloke who couldn't get elected . From that party nobody joins any more..whaddyacall them....used to be big in the 90's..no..not the spice girls...". Cue laughter .

They were never planning to go into power . Just kick labour around for a bit while securing whatever concessions suited them . If the Tories get in even better for them ..the case against ending the union becomes even more obvious . The only disillusionment will be with the unionist side, what littles left of it .


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Bloody iPad: the piss not thesis


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Recount in Bradford West, it seems.



That would be a 30% swing from Respect to Labour. Bye bye George?


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

> Philip Cowley@philipjcowley
> 
> 
> According to the exit poll, there should have been a 1% swing to Labour in Swindon N. There was a 4.3% swing to the Conservatives.
> ...


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

YouSir said:


> So the gobshite's lost?


That would be my reading...


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Putney held by the vermin


virtually no swing...not looking good for lab


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

At least the purple turds came near the bottom (so to speak).


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Putney held by the vermin




The Levellers revolve in their graves.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

LDs keep a deposit


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> virtually no swing...not looking good for lab



.4%

It's gonna be a long night...


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

coley said:


> Iirc, the party and it's members favoured his brother?  Ed got in through the backing of the unions who he then backslided when they asked for his endorsement of their industrial action?
> I don't like the Tories one bit, but I absolutely detest the labour Tory lite.


It was a totally legitimate vote and the suggestion that he stabbed his brother in the back is just tory bullshit and belongs in bacon sandwich/dad was a commie who didn't support us in the war/he wasn't married etc. etc. territory.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

only bright spot so  far is seeing the lib dem vote plummet


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> That would be my reading...



Good. Just nice to have your official confirmation.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

FFS Greening. STFU!


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

galloway reported to police by returning officer for tweet


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> How does that work then considering the haemorrhaging of support  was meant to be down to libdem voters feelingt betrayed by Nick selling out to the Tories?  Is it that as a portion of them peel away to vote labour or Green, or other 'left' parties, those left are more right leaning, see their libdem vote would be worthless so defect to the Tories?



Not sure. That sounds like a possible scenario.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> That would be a 30% swing from Respect to Labour. Bye bye George?


Yes, it would seem that way. I'm enjoying the image of him throwing a strop.


----------



## elbows (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Bloody iPad: the piss not thesis



Is that Camerons thesis on his rubbish high level debating technique (don't go for a piss for ages to create a sense of urgency)?


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Get this fucking Tory woman off. And fuck you Putney.


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

At least the Liberal filth are getting a good kicking. Any chance of the rest of their support getting behind a proper Labour leader in 2020 (if we have a country left)?


----------



## little_legs (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Putney held by the vermin



greeining, the female version of osbourne


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Another Lib Dem lost deposit in Swindon?


No.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> Someone put nick Robinson out of his misery


He's a Tory cunt too.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

> Isabel Hardman
> 
> *✔* @IsabelHardman
> 
> ...



Hardman usually has good sources.


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

Galloway Tweet reported to the police apparently.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Shit.


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

Nuneaton looks good for the Tories


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

elbows said:


> Is that Camerons thesis on his rubbish high level debating technique (don't go for a piss for ages to create a sense of urgency)?



You could say that but I couldn't possibly comment.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> .4%
> 
> It's gonna be a long night...


yeah, but that's in GL


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Ooo has Farage gone?!!


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> galloway reported to police by returning officer for tweet


Good.


----------



## stupid kid (May 8, 2015)

Best theory I've heard so far regarding the exit poll results is that the Tories stole back the UKIP vote late while Labour didn't.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)




----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Whats GL?


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, it would seem that way. I'm enjoying the image of him throwing a strop.



Recount.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Good.


he re-tweeted 'exit' stuff before close of poll...useless cunt


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

SE25 said:


> At least the Liberal filth are getting a good kicking. Any chance of the rest of their support getting behind a proper Labour leader in 2020 (if we have a country left)?



Doesn't look like their defectors are jumping ship to Labour so far.


----------



## stupid kid (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Ooo has Farage gone?!!


Radio 5 were quoting a bloke who gave Farage a million quid, thought the Tories had taken that seat.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> Whats GL?


greater london


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Ooo has Farage gone?!!


I saw on the BBC ticker that someone was suggesting he'd won, but can't remember who that was, so let's hope that was just bollocks.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Recount.


I know; I broke the news on the thread.


----------



## stupid kid (May 8, 2015)

Radio 5 also saying Ed Balls' opponent believes herself to have won.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

God, Nick Robinson is an awful cunt.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

At this rate the best we can hope for is seeing Paddy Ashdowne devouring a Stetson round about 5am


----------



## Supine (May 8, 2015)

I'm hearing a rumour that al murry pub landlord has beaten farage so far in the count


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Ooo has Farage gone?!!


he never came.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Nick Brown, Blairite up next


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I know; I broke the news on the thread.



 Missed that.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Supine said:


> I'm hearing a rumour that al murry pub landlord has beaten farage so far in the count


Nonsense.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

Simon Hughes and David Laws look like they will be booted out.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

— Tim Shipman (@ShippersUnbound)May 8, 2015

Lib Dem sources telling me Simon Hughes has probably lost and even David Laws in fight for survival. Which makes exit poll look accurate


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

> Tim Shipman@ShippersUnbound
> 
> 
> Lib Dem sources telling me Simon Hughes has probably lost and even David Laws in fight for survival. Which makes exit poll look accurate
> ...



Hughes is on the left of the LD's such as it is


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)




----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> Hughes is on the left of the LD's such as it is



Now he isnt even whats left of the LDs.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> Hughes is on the left of the LD's such as it is


So what? And he isn't.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Missed that.


It's fast moving stuff. 

It's a young man's game.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Nuneaton decision will be significant for labour, Guardian is saying lots of blues.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It's fast moving stuff.
> 
> It's a young man's game.


more beer on keyboard


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

No recount in Bradford West. Galloway has lost


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Marr on the money for once, exit poll wrong but not massively wrong - think he could be right.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Marr on the money for once


eh?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> eh?


See edit


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> — Tim Shipman (@ShippersUnbound)May 8, 2015
> 
> Lib Dem sources telling me Simon Hughes has probably lost and even David Laws in fight for survival. Which makes exit poll look accurate


be excellent if those two go


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

this projected results looks very tasty for he ulstermen...much leverage


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


>



Wow. That's amazing, if true. Suggests the exit poll is closer than I'd given it credit for.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> eh?



Think he's referring to Marr claiming "exit poll is wrong"

However he then added "but not by much"


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

Another one for a Muncing then.

There's a pub in Bradford offering free bar if Galloway goes, although run by racist pricks.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It's fast moving stuff.
> 
> It's a young man's game.



You'll be off to bed soon then?


----------



## DJWrongspeed (May 8, 2015)

It's not lookin good. I hate everything and want to die


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Wow. That's amazing, if true. Suggests the exit poll is closer than I'd given it credit for.


Coatbridge is looking like going. _Coatbridge_. Returned a Labour MP every single election since 1935.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Sadiq Khan holds Tooting for Lab

small swing from LD to Lab & Tories, maj still around 2 or 3k


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

DJWrongspeed said:


> It's not lookin good. I hate everything and want to die


vermin ain't _won..._again


----------



## jakethesnake (May 8, 2015)

DJWrongspeed said:


> It's not lookin good. I hate everything and want to die


keep your chin up old chap


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> You'll be off to bed soon then?


I'm struggling already, it has to be said!


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Khan has kept his majority in Wandsworth.


----------



## povmcdov (May 8, 2015)

For the love of god Noooooooooooo!


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Close at Tooting. Lab hold.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Sadiq Khan holds Tooting for Lab


Numbers! We want numbers.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Sadiq Khan holds Tooting for Lab
> 
> small swing from LD to Lab & Tories, maj still around 2 or 3k



Virtually no swing though


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

DJWrongspeed said:


> It's not lookin good. I hate everything and want to die



You think it's bad now ? Wait till you experience the joys of the DUP calling the shots at westminster if they're propping the Tories up . You'll be pining for that fucker Farage as the voice of reason .


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Another appalling tusc result


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Tooting only 0.5% swing - not good enough. Exit firming up.


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

Posadism's winning then right?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Tooting again seeming to back up the exit poll somewhat


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm struggling already, it has to be said!



I'm just brewing my next espresso.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Numbers! We want numbers.


Lab 25263
Con 22421
Greens and LDs 2000ish each
ukip 1500

0.2% swing con to Lab


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Another LD lost deposit?


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Lib Dems lose deposit for Tooting.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I'm just brewing my next espresso.


My mistake was putting sambuca in mine...


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Tooting only 0.5% swing - not good enough. Exit firming up.


Pollsters fucked if London results shape up like that


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Tooting only 0.5% swing - not good enough. Exit firming up.



And this is highly-multicultural south London - no leftward-swing here is a very bad sign


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

It's worse - 0.2%


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

"It is the people who are the real losers", says Kinnock.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Lib Dems lose deposit for Tooting.


Have they kept any yet?


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Let me merge these two threads as people are posting the same thing...


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Have they kept any yet?


Two


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Ooo has Farage gone?!!



Farrage's millionaire donor apparently has said he thinks Farage hasn't won.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> "It is the people who are the real losers", says Kinnock.



Kinnock not losing his 'windbag' reputation then...


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Let me merge these two threads as people are posting the same thing...



You have no idea what that did to my head.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

Im going to buy a big bag of brown and gouch out for the next five years.


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

Any cause for optimism? Anyone..?


----------



## Ceej (May 8, 2015)

a_chap said:


> Farrage's millionaire donor apparently has said he thinks Farage hasn't won.


Small mercies. Going to bed for a bit - too dispirited to do this on no sleep.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Another appalling tusc result



What are you counting as appalling?   They are a brand new party.   did you say that you are involved in their campaign?  Are you being a bit harsh on yourself?


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> this projected results looks very tasty for he ulstermen...much leverage




at least they want the bedroom tax gone and believe it or not, less welfare cuts.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Two


That's a disgrace.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Battersea - oof, that's even worse.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Cons win Battersea - Labour nowhere near

26k tories
18k lab


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2015)

Battersea result is pretty damning no. Oh dear


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> View attachment 71244
> 
> Close at Tooting. Lab hold.



Just rejoining... any news on Streatham (or any of the other Brixon tri split) yet?


----------



## little_legs (May 8, 2015)

And now the BBC says that overall Con majority is on the cards.


----------



## krink (May 8, 2015)

I've had enough TV, going to bed with radio 4.  Mnd, I was flicking channels and managed to catch Pierce Brosnon getting attacked by a ghost-tree so not a totally wasted evening.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

lab-->con swing in battersea = game over.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Looks like Lib Dem voters have gone back to tories in Battersea


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Battersea result is pretty damning no. Oh dear



Surely it was expected?


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> lab-->con swing in battersea = game over.


exit wins


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Just rejoining... any news on Streatham (or any of the other Brixon tri split) yet?


not til 4 or 4.30am I think


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

Battersea. Tory swing greater than the exit poll!


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Any cause for optimism? Anyone..?



Milibands' after dinner speaking rate should bring a smile...


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

Fuck this then, til 2am and I'm out, enough to be depressed about in life.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> lab-->con swing in battersea = game over.


Yep it looks like the yellow tories have become blue tories


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> lab-->con swing in battersea - game over.



Is battersea not a safe Tory seat?

Or am I clutching at straws?


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

Perhaps Battersea shouldnt be that much of a surprise, there has been a lot of posh flats going up and that Made In Chelsea films quite a bit over that side of the river.


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

Shit. That's very bad news.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

a_chap said:


> Battersea. Tory swing greater than the exit poll!



Big shit.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Is battersea not a safe Tory seat?
> 
> Or am I clutching at straws?


Yeah but there shouldn't have been a swing to the Cons


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Just rejoining... any news on Streatham (or any of the other Brixon tri split) yet?



Streatham due about 3.30 I think.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Any cause for optimism? Anyone..?



The estate agents near me are letting off fireworks.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

"It has been a great campaign for the Labour Party", says Tristram.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Any cause for optimism? Anyone..?


Eurovision is only a couple of weeks away 

The UK may not be eligible to take part by then, of course.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

They live amongst us...


----------



## little_legs (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> Perhaps Battersea shouldnt be that much of a surprise, there has been a lot of posh flats going up and that Made In Chelsea films quite a bit over that side of the river.


For like the past 14 years.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Is battersea not a safe Tory seat?
> 
> Or am I clutching at straws?


It was one of the ones that labour really targeted and _had _to take to get anywhere - and they ended up with swing against them. Others with similar swing demanded now looking very unlikely.


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Any cause for optimism? Anyone..?



With the real prospect of Tory government propped up by a party who insist ..in all honesty..the world began around 6000 years ago ? 

I'm optimistic that reign of horror could lead to a frenzied British withdrawal from Ireland to ensure it never ever happens again .


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

really don't want to go to bed, knowing what the morning will bring


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Oh Christ.

So when do we start smashing shit up ?


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

This Brillo - Hunt discussion is one of the great car crash interviews.


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

When Labour MP's are called Tristam it's Game Over anyway I suppose.


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> With the real prospect of Tory government propped up by a party who insist ..in all honesty..the world began around 6000 years ago ?
> 
> I'm optimistic that reign of horror could lead to a frenzied British withdrawal from Ireland to ensure it never ever happens again .



On the downside if that happens I might move there. You've been warned.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

recount for Cable


----------



## comrade spurski (May 8, 2015)

Labour prick called tristan claiming battersea candidate was a wealth creator and a great labour candidate...and they will wonder why they have done shit in this election...ffs


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Hunt clearly throwing the towel in


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

"Calling for Ed Milliband's head" ... you heard it here first.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> Perhaps Battersea shouldnt be that much of a surprise, there has been a lot of posh flats going up and that Made In Chelsea films quite a bit over that side of the river.



Side effect of gentrification?  tories being shunted to poorer neighbourhoods and taking their shitty votes with them?


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> With the real prospect of Tory government propped up by a party who insist ..in all honesty..the world began around 6000 years ago ?
> 
> I'm optimistic that reign of horror could lead to a frenzied British withdrawal from Ireland to ensure it never ever happens again .



Wouldn't that be ironic?


----------



## jakethesnake (May 8, 2015)

"We must not retrench into a left wing rump" says David Blunket... the towering twat that he is.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> really don't want to go to bed, knowing what the morning will bring



It's like the anti-christmas.


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

comrade spurski said:


> Labour prick called tristan claiming battersea candidate was a wealth creator and a great labour candidate...and they will wonder why they have done shit in this election...ffs



Chances of them ever learning that lesson? Fuck all. Slow fucking suicide, wish someone would go at them with a hammer and finish the job.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

jesus, this walking rhyming slang spunking out gobbets of Tory-speak; "proud to be from this country", "wealth creators", etc


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

little_legs said:


> For like the past 14 years.



Longer than that. Pronounced Batter-Zia in the late 80's was the joke.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Boris Johnson must be gutted...


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Eurovision is only a couple of weeks away
> 
> The UK may not be eligible to take part by then, of course.



Eurovision is mostly for humourous intent, we could chuck Nick Clegg in drag and see if Europe will give him some votes.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> "We must not retrench into a left wing rump" says David Blunket... the towering twat that he is.



Anyone would think that this result wasnt far, far worse than 1983.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

UKIP third in Wrexham.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> It's like the anti-christmas.



Well, the turkeys did vote for it.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Looking like Tories reigning on their own, close enough to a de facto majority to tell Libs 'thanks, and now fuck off'.  I'm off to bed.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> Streatham due about 3.30 I think.



Same, I read, for the other two. (Vauxhall, and that weirdly named Dulwich and thingies).


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Oh Christ.
> 
> So when do we start smashing shit up ?



I'm starting now...Unfortunately I'm at home.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

So basically, the lib-dems fucked it up by splitting to tory in all the marginals.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Looking like Tories reigning on their own, close enough to a de facto majority to tell Libs 'thanks, and now fuck off'.  I'm off to bed.


Lib*s ?*


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Boris Johnson must be gutted...



Cameron would do a Blair at about three years I reckon. Being PM is just a 'been there, done that' for Cameron.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Boris Johnson must be gutted...



Yes... Yes he must be gutted.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

Surprised UKIP did so well in Wrexham


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> So basically, the lib-dems fucked it up by splitting to tory in all the marginals.


they believed the vermin when they said they'd do the same for them


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

I'm going to fucking bed. Otherwise I'll be too tired to get properly smashed tomorrow night when I've actually got a load of wine in.


----------



## krink (May 8, 2015)

Imagine how much further to the right labour will have to go to reclaim those votes lost to Tories and UKIP to win the next GE!


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

Is lid dem vote going to labour but labour vote going to UKIP? 

WTF??


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Anti tory bloc count is everything


----------



## A380 (May 8, 2015)

Only apparent ray of sunshine at the moment is it looks like Galoway has lost...


----------



## jakethesnake (May 8, 2015)

No seats have changed hands yet.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

This is awful, worse than I ever expected


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Get that UKIP douchebag off my screen!


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

The fella who voted Lib Dems of the BBC is too optimistic for his own good in the world of politics.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

Con seats now predicted to be 323.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> "We must not retrench into a left wing rump" says David Blunket... the towering twat that he is.


Oh but the Blairites won't challenge for the leadership 

Already the spin is going that way. Anyone that doesn't think that Lab will move to the right is deluded.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Just rejoining... any news on Streatham (or any of the other Brixon tri split) yet?


Predicted for around 330am.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2015)

WHO ARE THESE CUNTS


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Scottish Labour MPs queuing up to throw in the towel, but blame voters who voted SNP for Miliband not winning in England.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> Con seats now predicted to be 323.



It's mind blowing to me how this is possible.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Have the BNP folded their tents and slunk off? 0 votes recorded for them so far.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2015)

TOO FAR TO THE LEFT...FUCK OFFFFFFF


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Get that UKIP douchebag off my screen!



_Guardians of the Galaxy_ has a lot to answer for with that one.


----------



## little_legs (May 8, 2015)

So is it correct that Miliband has lost more seats than Brown?


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Have the BNP folded their tents and slunk off? 0 votes recorded for them so far.


That's because they've not stood in any of the declared seats. They only put up 8 candidates.


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

Labour has proper underestimated the effect of their encouraging gentrification on their votes.


----------



## YouSir (May 8, 2015)

Labour top far to the left? Fuuuuuuuuuck right off.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

At least the corporate fucking pollsters are shown to be a bunch of fucking mugs who haven't got a grasp on contemporary political psychology.


----------



## comrade spurski (May 8, 2015)

Labour supporters and members must be gutted...i never expected labour to win and dont trust them and i feel like shit so fuck knows how bad they must feel


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

On BBC: "it will be interesting if as we go through the night we hear any Blairites saying maybe, _just maybe_, we campaigned too far to the left"  

They can't even see the left from where most of them were campaigning from!


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> WHO ARE THESE CUNTS



The people of the United Kingdom?

Me? You? Us?


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Predicted for around 330am.



Of lambeth seats:

Vauxhall is safe labour
Dulwich & west Norwood is safe labour

Not so sure about Streatham? Is that a marginal?


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Predicted for around 330am.



Although there'll be no surprises on the seats in our three constituencies, will be interesting to see what the mood swing is on votes.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

Wonder how David Milliband is feeling right now? He'd need a heart of stone not to be pissing himself laughing.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2015)

a_chap said:


> The people of the United Kingdom?
> 
> Me? You? Us?



Doesn't feel like somewhere I want to be, right now


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

"The Conservative candidate may well have pipped Farage to the post in Thanet" - christ, I honestly don't know how to feel about that.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

little_legs said:


> So is it correct that Miliband has lost more seats than Brown?


Not yet.


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

Fingers crossed Chuka Umunna loses his seat.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Of lambeth seats:
> 
> Vauxhall is safe labour
> Dulwich & west Norwood is safe labour
> ...



Was a semi marginal last time, but that was with the Lab > Lib Dem swing.


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

How right-wing will Labour be after this? It makes me sad to think how British attitudes go ever further towards creating a truly nasty country.


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> jesus, this walking rhyming slang spunking out gobbets of Tory-speak; "proud to be from this country", "wealth creators", etc



Yeah..like...can the likes of those shitheads not see that by parrotting that shit all they're doing is saying the Tories are right . It's virtually canvassing for them . And when people accept it as truth because everyone says it they'll just vote Tory , not for the guy who agrees with the Tories but is in a different party for some reason . If conservative opponents are campaigning on identifying with the conservative message they've nobody to blame when the electorate does likewise . And naturally enough votes for them .


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> Fingers crossed Chuka Umunna loses his seat.



To who?


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> At least the corporate fucking pollsters are shown to be a bunch of fucking mugs who have got a grasp on contemporary political psychology.



Do you mean don't have a grasp?


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

boundary changes in the QS, then?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Scottish Labour MPs queuing up to throw in the towel, but blame voters who voted SNP for Miliband not winning in England.


Fuck them, precisely why they're dying


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> To who?


Don't care.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

Probably already been posted but these are the predicted times for results for each constituency http://election.pressassociation.com/Declaration_times/general_2015_by_name.php


----------



## comrade spurski (May 8, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Labour top far to the left? Fuuuuuuuuuck right off.


I thought i was so tired that i hollucinated dimbleby saying that labout were too left wing in this election...there seriously aint enough  s to express the stupity of that argument


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Elections don't stop the neo-liberal project, but it's fucking galling seeing get another 5 year green light. Billions of cuts, hunger, suicides.  Words you would never have expected yourself to be writing.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Of lambeth seats:
> 
> Vauxhall is safe labour
> Dulwich & west Norwood is safe labour
> ...



It would need a swing of 3% from labour to libdem.  Other than that poster boy Chuka is safe.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> boundary changes in the QS, then?



If the BV win an outright majority, yes.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Do you mean don't have a grasp?


oh, yes.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> If the BV win an outright majority, yes.


DUP wouldn't block that


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> It would need a swing of 3% from labour to libdem.  Other than that poster boy Chuka is safe.



He's better looking than Theresa May.  And that is from a straight male.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 8, 2015)

Fucking Labour Party.... class traitors reaping what they have sown... middle class neo liberal cunts. I'm off to bed


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> It would need a swing of 3% from labour to libdem.  Other than that poster boy Chuka is safe.



Aargh to find myself rooting for that careerist fuck, I loathe that cunt

Torturous.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

goldenecitrone said:


> Wonder how David Milliband is feeling right now? He'd need a heart of stone not to be pissing himself laughing.



Why?  This would be at least as bad if he was in charge, in fact it might be worse given that he would probably have supported going into Syria.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

comrade spurski said:


> Labour supporters and members must be gutted...i never expected labour to win and dont trust them and i feel like shit so fuck knows how bad they must feel


Yeah absolutely. I wanted the tories out, but never expected Labour to do this badly. 

I can still remember as a kid my dad shouting and swearing at the radio on the morning after the 92 election. I think that's gonna be me in the morning now


----------



## fiannanahalba (May 8, 2015)

Let's hope this is the last British general election.


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

comrade spurski said:


> I thought i was so tired that i hollucinated dimbleby saying that labout were too left wing in this election...there seriously aint enough  s to express the stupity of that argument



He's not stupid...he's putting the boot in . Saying "we've won hands down and there's no alternative . Our ideology has been confirmed and reigns supreme" 

He's just laughing at them .


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Fucking Labour Party.... class traitors reaping what they have sown... middle class neo liberal cunts. I'm off to bed


I daren't go to bed as it will just make the morning arrive all the quicker


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

fiannanahalba said:


> Let's hope this is the last British general election.



Bizarre hope: Something nearer PR next time.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

xenon said:


> Yes... Yes he must be gutted.



I'm glad someone got the double meaning.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

jakethesnake said:


> Fucking Labour Party.... class traitors reaping what they have sown... middle class neo liberal cunts. I'm off to bed


And yet they are already planning to go even more to the right. Despite the stupidity of the fact that that will put the final knife into the Labour body in Scotland.


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

princess_k said:


> Probably already been posted but these are the predicted times for results for each constituency http://election.pressassociation.com/Declaration_times/general_2015_by_name.php



What? Fuck! The lazy bastards here are't declaring until 6am?  I blame the lack of cheap eastern european counters


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> To who?


The British Obama of course!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Real subtle BBC graphic with a house of cards of libdems.


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

What the fuck is this house of cards shite?


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

If Hughes goes that's a (London) dent for the lib dems


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Nuneaton soon...could be off to bed time


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

fock the lot of them


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

ouch


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

Did they make that on a Commodore 64?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Labour nowhere near in Nuneaton. Tory hold. It's all over.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

Tories win Nuneaton, by loads.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Nuneaton twats vote blue.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

It is all over...


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

That's that.


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

That mars expedition doesn't sound so silly now ..does it ?


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2015)

Nuneaton result - the exit poll looks right/. Fuck fuck fuck


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> If Hughes goes that's a (London) dent for the lib dems


Lucky for them that people rarely notice dents on shipwrecks


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

All that's left is counting the lib-dem lost deposits.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (May 8, 2015)

Ahh... Voted Labour for the first time since I was 18... I obviously cursed them...


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Christ on a bike, Nuneaton romped by the vermin


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Another LD lost deposit!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

So far none of the NI declarations have been broadcast on the Beeb. Little bit shitty, if you ask me.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

looking like the exit poll is right


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Christ on a bike, Nuneaton romped by the vermin



Not good. That was one of the indicators.


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

Nuneaton. Tory increased majority... Number 38 on the Labour "must win" list


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> That's that.


Yep, Exit Poll looking good. Labour vote actually dropping.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

2010 lib-dems cohort try to destroy the country.


----------



## eoin_k (May 8, 2015)

fuck


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Still need the bloc.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (May 8, 2015)

We are true Europeans now - the centre collapses as the nationalists rise


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Yep, Exit Poll looking good. Labour vote actually dropping.


might well be an under-estimate


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Christ on a bike, Nuneaton romped by the vermin



that was with 6000 UKIP as well


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> So far none of the NI declarations have been broadcast on the Beeb. Little bit shitty, if you ask me.


thought they did them overnight?


----------



## eoin_k (May 8, 2015)

marty21 said:


> looking like the exit poll is right



Does it look like the exit poll could have understated how bad things will be.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Who are all these fuckers that have voted Tory now and not before, the increased majorities etc. The mind boggles.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Approximately 4/10 people in this country are vermin

People who's partners are sleeping innocently next to you right now - if you're not 100% sure, you know what to do


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

Could they squeak a majority?


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> that was with 6000 UKIP as well


lib-dem splitting to tory, trad-lab going UKIP.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Why, I mean. WTF.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> that was with 6000 UKIP as well


...again.

The party that was meant to 'split the right'...


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

xenon said:


> Who are all these fuckers that have voted Tory now and not before, the increased majorities etc. The mind boggles.


2010 lib-dems.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

the Lib Dem collapse doesn't seem to be benefiting Labour yet


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Could they squeak a majority?


close


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

xenon said:


> Who are all these fuckers that have voted Tory now and not before, the increased majorities etc. The mind boggles.



Well, don't blame me, I voted Labour.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Could they squeak a majority?


Yes, certainly the 'minus SF and Speaker' figure.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

I knew the exit poll was wrong.


----------



## poului (May 8, 2015)

I blame the Brand endorsement.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Seen enough now. Shit.  Bedtime.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)




----------



## mk12 (May 8, 2015)

They're going to get a majority aren't they? Miliband's a goner.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Will the last person to leave, turn off the lights?


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Ed must be sat in his constituency thinking "I've honestly fucked up, haven't I?"


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2015)

Fucking shit night. On top of this I now have toothache so bad I am almost in tears.


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

5 more years of Iain Duncan-Smith killing 73 people per week.


----------



## 1%er (May 8, 2015)

The UK now has fixed term parliaments (5 years I think), does that mean whatever the result there can't be another election for 5 years?


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Approximately 4/10 people in this country are vermin
> 
> People who's partners are sleeping innocently next to you right now - if you're not 100% sure, you know what to do


I'm 95% certain one of my closest friends has voted Tory in the past two elections. She's not rich, she doesn't hate poor people; I think it's a "people need to help themselves and we shouldn't be giving handouts" attitude.

I've been a ranting lefty (by the standards of anyone we associate with) since we've known each other and it's a conversation we've never really had, but thinking we probably need to now...


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Dear God. 

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics...lection/prime-minister-after-general-election


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

mk12 said:


> They're going to get a majority aren't they? Miliband's a goner.


Balls may well be able to be a very effective 'house husband' to the new leader of HM loyal opposition


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Ed must be sat in his constituency thinking "I've honestly fucked up, haven't I?"


Well, too far to the left, innit.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Balls may well be able to be a very effective 'house husband' to the new leader of HM loyal opposition



If he keeps his seat.   And I presume you're referring to Sturgeon?


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2015)

Do we really think most UKIP voters, especially in the North, vote for their neo liberal economic policies?


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

South Antram to the Ulster Unionists.


----------



## mk12 (May 8, 2015)

Loads of my friends vote Tory. They see Labour as the party for benefits claimants, whereas the Tories are the party of people who want to work hard and 'get on'. In their view, of course, benefits claimants are people who choose not to work.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Tories + Libs need to win the Queens Speech vote.
vs
Anti Tory bloc.

Still a chance.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> I'm 95% certain one of my closest friends has voted Tory in the past two elections. She's not rich, she doesn't hate poor people; I think it's a "people need to help themselves and we shouldn't be giving handouts" attitude.
> 
> I've been a ranting lefty (by the standards of anyone we associate with) since we've known each other and it's a conversation we've never really had, but thinking we probably need to now...



It's your civic duty to butcher her in the night. 

In the bloodiest way imaginable.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> If he keeps his seat.   And I presume you're referring to Sturgeon?


No. And no. What an odd thing to presume.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> If he keeps his seat.   And I presume you're referring to Sturgeon?


No and no


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

I wonder, could the SNP do a Sinn Fein?


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

Can somebody lend me a rifle? I can't take more IDS lies and benefit cuts. If I kill him it will save lives.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> I wonder, could the SNP do a Sinn Fein?


Stop wondering please. Please.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> I wonder, could the SNP do a Sinn Fein?


what?


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

mk12 said:


> Loads of my friends vote Tory. They see Labour as the party for benefits claimants, whereas the Tories are the party of people who want to work hard and 'get on'. In their view, of course, benefits claimants means people who choose not to work.



Amazing how these laziness epidemics happen in places where all the jobs were destroyed by Tory governments.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Ta to TB.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> It's your civic duty to butcher her in the night.
> 
> In the bloodiest way imaginable.


There is no question at all that she could take me. She sleeps with weapons by her bed


----------



## Doctor Carrot (May 8, 2015)

Really am surprised by this. The biggest load of incompetent, nasty shit cunts to ever run a government in my life time are, on track at least, to end up with more seats than in 2010!? A government that's stamped on the poor repeatedly, who have promised to grind them into the dirt if they get in again, are going to end up with more seats? What a bunch of easily bought gullible fuckwits many of my fellow citizens are.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> 2010 lib-dems.



Delinquant bastards.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Sturgeon bang on the money about Labour though. They have messed up and look like making themselves even more irrelevant.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

First gain of the night out in Northern Ireland, UUP gain from DUP.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> what?



Not attend Westminster.


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 8, 2015)

mk12 said:


> Loads of my friends vote Tory. They see Labour as the party for benefits claimants, whereas the Tories are the party of people who want to work hard and 'get on'. In their view, of course, benefits claimants are people who choose not to work.



friends?


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> 5 more years of Iain Duncan-Smith killing 73 people per week.


Obviously I can't 'like' your post but yes, this and more people using food banks, more people getting evicted due to the bedroom tax and benefit cuts, more zero hours contracts, and all the rest of it.

I feel really angry at the spiteful and self-interested media that look like having won the tory vermin this election.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Not attend Westminster.


That was Clegg, Cameron went to Eton.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 8, 2015)

"The SNP are not the Viet Cong"  apparently - Andrew Marr


----------



## mk12 (May 8, 2015)

Indeed. People (w/c and m/c) who have never had to claim benefits, and who have been lucky enough to find steady and stable jobs.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

The only thing I can try and extract from this is hopefully we can expect rioting.... And lots of it. Maybe not immediately, but the anger will build


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Tories + Libs need to win the Queens Speech vote.
> vs
> Anti Tory bloc.
> 
> Still a chance.



The SNP arent going to vote to give several seats back to Labour.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> I wonder, could the SNP do a Sinn Fein?


why the fuck would they- shinner abstentionism isn't based on tactical votng its cos they hate the crown and don't think its valid. Inclined to agree


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

Wtf. 

Hopefully its gonna improve by the time i wake up.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Sturgeon bang on the money about Labour though. They have messed up and look like making themselves even more irrelevant.


If they carry on the way they are on the Scottish results programmes - blaming voters, and still *still* making to sound entitled, they're fucked for a long time.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> The only thing I can try and extract from this is hopefully we can expect rioting.... And lots of it. Maybe not immediately, but the anger will build



If they win a majority perhaps, but a minority Tory government (or one with LD support that just gets it over the line) will not be able to impose austerity in the way that people fear.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

Lib Dems have a seat!


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> The only thing I can try and extract from this is hopefully we can expect rioting.... And lots of it. Maybe not immediately, but the anger will build


There must be resistance.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Mark Williams is _the _LD parliamentary party


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Massive massive win for SNP in Kilmarnock and Loudon.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2015)

WTF is wrong with people in Ceredigion


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

marty21 said:


> Lib Dems have a seat!



Now the night is really fucked.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Wow. 26% swing to SNP.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Massive massive win for SNP in Kilmarnock and Loudon.


26% swing!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

If I have to face another five years of hamheaded public schoolboys calling me and mine a cunt by word and deed I swear I'll do time


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

I wish I was Scottish.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

the jocks have started....26% swing ...'kinnel


----------



## Doctor Carrot (May 8, 2015)

26% Swing! Fuck!


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

Lib Dems got 456 votes in the Western Isles.


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

Long time since D:REAM were in the charts now.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> The SNP arent going to vote to give several seats back to Labour.



The seats will be the seats, no party can hand any back.

What I was driving at was - if it's a hung parliament - was who could stand the test of the "Queens Speech". SNP voting for a Cons proposition won't happen.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Massive massive win for SNP in Kilmarnock and Loudon.



26% swing.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> the jocks have started....26% swing ...'kinnel


Is that the biggest swing on record?


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Well, at least they got one seat.

The cunts.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Amazing how these laziness epidemics happen in places where all the jobs were destroyed by Tory governments.



I'm sick of those leaching fuckers living off state handouts too. Having their lifestyles subdisized by hard working tax payers...

You know. The bosses getting pay rises whilst they lay off staff and others needing to claim tax credits, private landlords milking the public purse for their mortages paid with HB.
Oh that's different. Sorry. Blessed are the wealth creators.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (May 8, 2015)

Ha I almost feel sorry for Tim Fallon pathetically trying to put a gloss on things... Almost.


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Lib Dems got 456 votes in the Western Isles.


They could isolate them on one.of the.outlying cleared islets


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

All the Tories will need armed bodyguards. Great news for police overtime.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

Fuck this is depressing.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Brillo Pad head on the BBC is annoying.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Is that the biggest swing on record?


if it is...won't last long methinks


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> if it is...won't last long methinks



Largest I can find, 20.6% for a Labour to Conservative swing back in the 70's. 

SNP will probably have larger swings elsewhere.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Winter is coming.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Dougie's gone


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Another massive rout for Labour as Douglas Alexander loses Paisley and Renfrewshire South to SNP by 5000 votes.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

Douglas Alexander out - SNP could take them all at this rate !


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Alexander has gone.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Another massive rout for Labour as Douglas Alexander loses Paisley and Renfrewshire South to SNP by 5000 votes.


that's Lord Alexander...to you


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Another massive rout for Labour as Douglas Alexander loses Paisley and Renfrewshire South to SNP by 5000 votes.


75% turnout too! and 27% swing, another record?


----------



## mk12 (May 8, 2015)

20 yr old? Did I hear that right?


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

27% swing.

Fucking hell.


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 8, 2015)

fuck me has this lad got hair on his balls? (radio 4)


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Ha I almost feel sorry for Tim Fallon pathetically trying to put a gloss on things... Almost.


IIRC Farron is tipped as a future leader...partner has just commented they're even more fucked than they were already if that's the case.

Alexander just lost to SNP.....


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

20 year old student. Thanking her mam. Bless.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Alexander has gone.



I wonder just what wisdom and life experience, a 20 year old student will bring to the House?


----------



## Thunderfist (May 8, 2015)

Defeated by a 20 yr old.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

mk12 said:


> 20 yr old? Did I hear that right?


yes


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

sunnysidedown said:


> fuck me has this lad got hair on his balls? (radio 4)


...er...


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

sunnysidedown said:


> fuck me has this lad got hair on his balls? (radio 4)



Her.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> 27% swing.
> 
> Fucking hell.


New record. 

And Dumbartonshire West gone SNP too.


----------



## geminisnake (May 8, 2015)

Yay Mhairi


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

Lab hold oxford east by 15000 votes


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Dumbarton West, 34% swing


----------



## mk12 (May 8, 2015)

sunnysidedown said:


> fuck me has this lad got hair on his balls? (radio 4)


That gave me my first smile of the evening.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Dougie's gone



Narrowly beaten by the odd 20 thousand votes...


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> And Dumbartonshire West gone SNP too.



34% !


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

sunnysidedown said:


> fuck me has this lad got hair on his balls? (radio 4)


i'd very much doubt that


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> 34% !


Wtf!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Jesus fuck! 34%


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

34% fucking swing to the SNP!


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I wonder just what wisdom and life experience, a 20 year old student will bring to the House?



How old was Pitt the Younger when he entered the House?


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Surely a good record to have is knowing the first election you could vote in, and you win it. Well done that lass.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Another massive rout for Labour as Douglas Alexander loses Paisley and Renfrewshire South to SNP by 5000 votes.



Ah well. I misheard. Majority of 16 thousand overturned I thought. Never mind. Dead is dead.


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 8, 2015)

*gets coat* (and trades in the radio for a TV)


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> How old was Pitt the Younger when he entered the House?


7


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> New record.
> 
> And Dumbartonshire West gone SNP too.


If only Roy Castle was still about, he'd have a busy night with all these records


----------



## Doctor Carrot (May 8, 2015)

34%!


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

Youngest MP since 1667


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> How old was Pitt the Younger when he entered the House?



21 or 22, and that was a rotten borough.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

hello


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Youngest MP since 1667


She works part-time in a chip shop and is taking her finals in less than 7 hours.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

I for one welcome our new Scotch overlords. 

Have you room for a little 'un?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

They're all falling like dominoes. Falkirk gone SNP too.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

It's cos Labour tried to be too leftwing in Scotland of course...


----------



## mk12 (May 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> She works part-time in a chip shop and is taking her finals in less than 7 hours.


And now has a £60,000+ job!


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

58% SNP Falkirk


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

So Cameron and Miliband have finished the Union. Moronic London-centric fools. I'm jealous of the Scots now.


----------



## killer b (May 8, 2015)

Fuck, those Scottish numbers.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Interesting that the Tories are holding their vote in Scotland.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Interesting that the Tories are holding their vote in Scotland.


What vote?


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

even Pasok got 13 seats


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Scotland are bulldozing these figures, other parties don't even need to fucking bother sending a candidate up there now.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

I feel envious of the Scots. They've got actual anti-austerity MPs.


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

35% swing to the SNP in Glenrothes.


----------



## pogofish (May 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Youngest MP since 1667



And one of my lot!


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> I feel envious of the Scots. They've got actual anti-austerity MPs.



but a tory government


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

These swings are breaking the swingometer!


----------



## Supine (May 8, 2015)

Why do the scots have a say? They have their own parliament


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

was that 80 for the LDs in Castle Point?


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Castle Point Lib Dem count - 80 votes.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

Streatham lab hold.


----------



## Alan G (May 8, 2015)

Dundee West 2010:
Labour vote: 17,994
Majority: 7,278

2015
SNP Vote: 27,684
Majority: 17,092

This is a rout


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

Dulwich and w.nor - lab hold


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Supine said:


> Why do the scots have a say? They have their own parliament


Can you not bother with your crap on this thread please?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Supine said:


> Why do the scots have a say? They have their own parliament


There was a referendum and everything.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)




----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> There was a referendum and everything.



Yes. There was.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> She works part-time in a chip shop and is taking her finals in less than 7 hours.





Is there dispensation for that with the exam board. Can I retake, I was just elected the youngest MP in 350 years, following an unpresidented landslide 7 hours ago.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> She works part-time in a chip shop and is taking her finals in less than 7 hours.


lined herself up a pretty decent job after uni


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

princess_k said:


> Dulwich and w.nor - lab hold


Got the figures for that?


----------



## CNT36 (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I wonder just what wisdom and life experience, a 20 year old student will bring to the House?


More than your average PPE prick I'd imagine.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> but a tory government



... and close to zero influence in Westminster.  As great a night is north of the border, this is considerably less good for them in terms of the Westminster situation.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Got the figures for that?



Seconded - my constituency too


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> ... and close to zero influence in Westminster.  As great a night is north of the border, this is considerably less good for them in terms of the Westminster situation.


I don't agree. This tees up IndyRef II perfectly


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Got the figures for that?


No - source was @londonist on Twitter. Nothing on the official Lambeth site yet but they've been right so far (aren't quoting their source though)


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Seconded - my constituency too


Still showing nothing on the BBC 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000673


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Supine said:


> Why do the scots have a say? They have their own parliament



I don't know if you've got how this UK thing works?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> These swings are breaking the swingometer!



The thirty percent swing nearly broke the semicircular swingometer. I'd have calibrated that differently, to be honest.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Yes. There was.


Yes. Which why Scots get to elect Westminster MPs.


----------



## Eggby (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> 7



Pitt the Embryo?


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

princess_k said:


> No - source was @londonist on Twitter. Nothing on the official Lambeth site yet but they've been right so far (aren't quoting their source though)


Maybe it's more of an informed guestimate if they're in the counting room.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Maybe it's more of an informed guestimate if they're in the counting room.



Although if lambeth doesn't come out for Labour then we are literally doomed.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I don't agree. This tees up IndyRef II perfectly



Unless the Scottish Parliament declares UDI, its hard to see how that will happen - they have less than 10% of the votes at Westminster.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Liberal democrats have currently broken the £10,000 mark for lost deposits.

hehehehehehe


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Liberal democrats have currently broken the £10,000 mark for lost deposits.
> 
> hehehehehehe



Make that £14,000


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> Unless the Scottish Parliament declares UDI, its hard to see how that will happen - they have less than 10% of the votes at Westminster.


There's a Holyrood election next year. The theory is they'd put into their manifesto a referendum if this or that criterion is met, eg Brexit. Which they wouldn't have done had this result been as it is.


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

marty21 said:


> 26% swing!



Even the Krankies never swung that hard


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

Andrew Neil is past it. Emily Maitlis should have taken his job ages ago.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

Via @lbldemocracy 
@LBLDemocracy: #Princes Ward Election results: Lab 3452, Cons 1518,  Lib Dems 1748, Greens 901


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

If you say that you're basically not going to change anything the Tories have done, whilst socially cleansing  encouraging gentrification in your London heartland constituencies - I wonder why Labour would be surprised at the results.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Vermin must be regretting some of their bribes/promises now.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Swinson loses seat to SNP.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Jo Swinson booted out.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

I don't know why I keep posting updates on something that everyone else is watching on telly anyway.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> There's a Holyrood election next year. The theory is they'd put into their manifesto a referendum if this or that criterion is met, eg Brexit. Which they wouldn't have done had this result been as it is.



I am not sure that they wouldnt have, and in any case this result makes Brexit much less likely.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Gordon Browns seat gone SNP.


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

Brown's old seat gone to SNP


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

@Londonist: To everyone asking, ITV has declared Streatham and Dulwich and West Norwood


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

Lucy Powell out-Tristraming Tristram here.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> this result makes Brexit much less likely.



Why?


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

I'm not watching itv - anyone else? Can you confirm?


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

where do Labour find these people - they are utterly delusional...


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> I don't know why I keep posting updates on something that everyone else is watching on telly anyway.



Shoulda been a penalty.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

princess_k said:


> @Londonist: To everyone asking, ITV has declared Streatham and Dulwich and West Norwood



Just waiting on vauxhall then where Kate Hoey should be a shoe-in


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 8, 2015)

battersea results?


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Go Burnley!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

Must admit, I'm a bit sad that the local Labour MP has gone. He helped out a lot with where I work now, helping with funding proposals and helping present them etc. The new SNP rep is a former Tory who knows hee-haw about the constituency, but that's how it goes.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Same old Labour line "SNP voters let the Tories in" definitely going to win people back to them with that


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Gordon Browns seat gone SNP.



Fucking yeayyy....no unionist party can now claim to speak on behalf of Scottish interests with any shred of legitimacy . The unions in tatters . And so is shitty labour . They should shut up shop and just go join the Tories now . For all the use they are .


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


> battersea results?



Conservative hold with swing towards tories


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

Edit: double post


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Go Burnley!


Where was it on target list?


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

@Londonist: AND Vauxhall votes Kate Hoey back in.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

JimW said:


> Where was it on target list?


20 odd,iirr


----------



## Eggby (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Swinson loses seat to SNP.




Blimey I thought you said said Swindon lost to SNP for a mo


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Dan Hodges on Sky: labour lost in Scotland because they "moved to the left".


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Well done Lambeth. Small consolation but still...


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

Where is the currency kidney?


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

Lucy Powell more or less conceding that Condomface will remain in downing st.

Whole scenario too hideous for words. Think I will go to bed.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Why?



Getting an EU Referendum bill through the Commons will be a lot more difficult with a minority government, the power of the Tory backbenches will be less if their votes dont really count (in the way that they would in a small majority government) and if Farage doesnt manage to get elected again UKIP will be less of a threat.   Cameron will be able to do what he probably always wanted to do (and did in this Parliament) - kick it into the long grass whilst promising to do something about it when he can find the time.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

@londonist on Twitter are quoting itv as their source for streatham, dulwich and w.nor and Vauxhall as their source...but I'm watching bbc


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Off to Bedfordshire.

Night all.


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Dan Hodges on Sky: labour lost in Scotland because they "moved to the left".



It's becoming a mantra now, like it's co-ordinated . An agenda afoot methinks .


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Labour take Ealing Central & Acton from tories -  4 pt swing needed.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Jim Murphy declaration due shortly.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

7% swing from Con to LD so far. 

This is what's giving the Tories the keys to number 10


----------



## Ted Striker (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Same old Labour line "SNP voters let the Tories in" definitely going to win people back to them with that



It wos the SNP wot won it


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Jim Murphy declaration due shortly.



Just as I open another bottle!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> It's becoming a mantra now, like it's co-ordinated . An agenda afoot methinks .



To be fair, Dan Hodges has always been a cunt.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Brecon you muppets.


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> To be fair, Dan Hodges has always been a cunt.



And tonight he's sounding very like an " on message " type of cunt .


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

'No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.'

Feel obliged to quote Bevan before I retire.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Looking like Farage only placing second - has vowed to step down, so another crumb on a thoroughly shit night.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

oryx said:


> 'No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.'
> 
> Feel obliged to quote Bevan before I retire.



A favourite of mine too, and heartening that "The Vermin" seems to be in increasingly common usage nowadays.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 8, 2015)

agricola said:


> Getting an EU Referendum bill through the Commons will be a lot more difficult with a minority government, the power of the Tory backbenches will be less if their votes dont really count (in the way that they would in a small majority government) and if Farage doesnt manage to get elected again UKIP will be less of a threat.   Cameron will be able to do what he probably always wanted to do (and did in this Parliament) - kick it into the long grass whilst promising to do something about it when he can find the time.



It would be lovely if you are right. On the other hand, the Lib Dems have a very poor negotiating position this time round and wil have more important "red lines" to defend - like, for instance, getting at least a few ministerial jobs. That makes the 1922 committee more, rather than less, powerful in setting the terms of a coalition agreement and a whipped-in referendum is the absolute minimum they will accept.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

We ready for a roar from Glasgow North?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Jim Murphy gone by a large margin.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

@LBLDemocracy: #STREATHAM General Election results: Lab 26474 Cons 12540 Lib Dems 4491 Greens 4421 UKIP 1602


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Murphy smashed by 4,000 by the SNP - doubt many north of the border will be shedding tears!


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

Murphy fucked.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

Four nations laugh!


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Haha,fuck off Murphy


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Or me, tbf.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Little bit embarrassing for Jim Murphy there.


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

Get it RIGHT fuckin up ye Murphy


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Little bit embarrassing for Jim Murphy there.



Just a tad.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Murphy looked almost happy as he lost his seat. Back to Westminster then...


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Little bit embarrassing for Jim Murphy there.


He said it'd be easy. 

His jacket must now be on a shoogly peg as Scottish Labour leader.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

If Farage loses, I hope they zoom RIGHT INTO HIS FUCKING RACIST FACE when he hears the result.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

Streatham lab hold confirmed: http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?XXR=0&ID=138&RPID=26653305


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> If Farage loses, I hope they zoom RIGHT INTO HIS FUCKING RACIST FACE when he hears the result.


----------



## The Boy (May 8, 2015)

Booooom!!!!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

oryx said:


> Murphy fucked.


right in the eye!

the vermins down here may well have it. I just don't know. Everything is so confusing  

it'll make more sense in the morn


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> If Farage loses, I hope they zoom RIGHT INTO HIS FUCKING RACIST FACE when he hears the result.



Looking likely he's only second - highly irritable interview earlier and reports from Thanet suggest bad news

Bye Bye Nige ..... betcha wish you died in that plane crash now? 

Cos I certainly do.


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> If Farage loses, I hope they zoom RIGHT INTO HIS FUCKING RACIST FACE when he hears the result.


They're talking about a recount. I am praying that I see what you describe above before I have to pass out in a stupor of utter horror at the political landscape I am likely to wake up to tomorrow.....but not likely.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Think I'll watch Channel 4 now. BBC is boring.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Current liberal democrat losses (as of 3:15am):

£25,500


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Oh Christ! Mehdi Hasan on C4 mentioning chuka umunna as possible replacement for Willyband.


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

Hopefully Murphy will just fuck off now . Scottish labour are just a laughing stock after tonight . Annihilated and deservedly so . Even better their bad grace in defeat is like taking a mop to the slaughterhouse floor . They seem determined to eradicate all traces of themselves . Even those who still support them will be too embarrassed to show their faces or raise their voices . A toxic brand now . No coming back from that .

One bunch of political vermin have been well and truly routed, utterly humiliated and hopefully consigned to history's dustbin,  despite the other bad news .


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

My constituency, Stirling, has gone to SNP from Labour. Huge majority. Now mundane swing of only 22%.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)




----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

Bermondsey will be interesting.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

princess_k said:


> Streatham lab hold confirmed: http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?XXR=0&ID=138&RPID=26653305



Looks like Labour and Tory split the votes  libdem lost.   Unjum loses his deposit.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Curran gone too.


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

Margaret Curran utterly pumped too. It's like I've died and gone to heaven.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

Vauxhall: lab hold
@LBLDemocracy: #VAUXHALL General Election RESULTS: Lab 25778 Cons 13070, Greens 3658, Lib Dems 3312, UKIP 1385 #GE2015


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

if i were to put aside 20p everytime i hear the phrase ' Ed Miliband, the Leader of the Labour Party' from now on, do you think i'll have to spend a pound?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

princess_k said:


> Vauxhall: lab hold
> @LBLDemocracy: #VAUXHALL General Election RESULTS: Lab 25778 Cons 13070, Greens 3658, Lib Dems 3312, UKIP 1385 #GE2015


cheers for that - my constituency. Safe Labour. But funny to see the Greens beat LDs into third place.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> [...]mundane swing of only 22%.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Liberal Democrats hold their second seat, Westmorland and Lonsdale.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> My constituency, Stirling, has gone to SNP from Labour. Huge majority. Now mundane swing of only 22%.


disappointingly low swing that


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

The UKIP woman on the BBC is disturbingly normal.


----------



## Ted Striker (May 8, 2015)

"3-0 and you fucked it up..."


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

188 for Simon in Vauxhall. Has there been one non awful lefty vote yet?


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

@LBLDemocracy: Our Returning Officer has confirmed that Labour's Helen Hayes of has been elected as MP for #Dulwich & #WestNorwood #GE2015


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

David Davis - nothing a solid smack in the mouth wouldn't sort out.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

@LBLDemocracy: #DulwichandWestNorwood Election RESULTS: Lab 27772, Cons 11650, Lib Dems 5055, Greens 4844, UKIP 1606 #GE2015


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

Rashid was beaten by the Lib Dems


----------



## wtfftw (May 8, 2015)

I might need to go to bed. I'm going to have fatheadedtory nightmares.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Ian Davidson gone now. Nasty shit he is.


----------



## princess_k (May 8, 2015)

Lambeth results should be live here soon http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/mgElectionElectionAreaResults.aspx?EID=29&RPID=26652472

Details I've posted so far are via official Lambeth Twitter. Well done Lambeth voters.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Rashid was beaten by the Lib Dems



Genuinely troubling as he is a good guy and a genuine local presence.


----------



## shifting gears (May 8, 2015)

Genuinely


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

Might apply for that transfer to Motherwell. England and Wales going to be a brutal place to survive in!


----------



## Ted Striker (May 8, 2015)

Ajockalpyse Now


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 8, 2015)

Scotterdammerung is Smithson's latest.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Respect walkout in Bradford West. Galloway clearly out


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Ian Davidson gone now. Nasty shit he is.



I agree.


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

At least UKIP lost their deposit in Dulwich West Nord


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Coatbridge gone SNP. Amazing.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> Genuinely troubling as he is a good guy and a genuine local presence.


He ran a great campaign and got nearly 5000 votes - more than the greens in the other local constituencies - good show.


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 8, 2015)

Torys hold Crawley


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Might apply for that transfer to Motherwell. England and Wales going to be a brutal place to survive in!



I can see all these English refugees stepping off the national express coach in Glasgow , their belongings on their backs , kissing the ground . Telling reporters of the terror they left behind .


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Coatbridge swing 36%.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

If only I had invested in tiny, tiny violins.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

The safest Labour seat in Scotland is SNP. SNP now has 33 seats. Swings up to 36%. 

Looks like on track for above 50 seats for SNP.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Glasgow North East, 39% swing. My god.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Labour's safest seat in Glasgow - North East - has gone SNP. Swing of 39%!


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Glasgow North East, 39% swing. My god.



So if we find the highest labour majority we can predict what the record will be for a swing to SNP?  any potential for a 50% swing?


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Glasgow North East, 39% swing. My god.



Jesus Christ...


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

Stroud - held by Tories.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

And with that, to bed. Stupidly I've got work tomorrow.


----------



## povmcdov (May 8, 2015)

Well the people of Stroud just spoke, re-electing possibly the worst MP in the South West. I just lost my faith in voting for the candidate not the party. PR NOW!


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> And with that, to bed. Stupidly I've got work tomorrow.


Thank you and goodnight.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Coatbridge gone SNP. Amazing.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2015)

Nigel Farage better fucking lose, I need something to cheer myself up!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

kebabking said:


> Stroud - held by Tories.


fuuuuuck 

Lab were only 1000 behind - Tories increased majority to over 5000.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Well done Carmichael.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

LDs hold Orkney & Shetland


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

SNP have lost the chance of total domination, Orkney and Shetland held just by the Lib Dems.

Of all the seats they don't win, its one of their fucking seats.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

A decent result for TUSC! 1300/3.1% in Tottenham


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

40 seats to the SNP so far - remarkable night for them


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

"for Gods' sake"


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Nigel Farage better fucking lose, I need something to cheer myself up!



Libdems getting a kicking.

Not much consolation though. 

FFS


----------



## povmcdov (May 8, 2015)

The thing with Stroud is that the town is pretty "alternative" and despite the badger cull, a waste incinerator that pickles forced in, the incumbent's really lazy performance on individual cases, the fact he's the most expensive MP in the South-West, and extremely bad local press coverage he STILL got in. A local tory party member who lunches with the guy once a month predicted a 5000 majority to labour to me 8 hours ago. It really beggars belief.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Good results for McDonnell

Labour’s *John McDonnell* has retained Hayes and Harlington, the west London constituency which includes Heathrow airport, with an increased majority of 15,700.


And Featherstone gone.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2015)

xenon said:


> Libdems getting a kicking.
> 
> Not much consolation though.
> 
> FFS


Yeah that is bringing on a wintery smile I suppose


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

That cunt Hughes up now


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

that fucker Hughes is out


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 8, 2015)

The strange death of Liberal London


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

20 votes for Steve Freeman


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

labour gain Hornsey and Wood Green from LD


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Gone fucker Straight choice by voters to reject that cunt


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Prepare for a Clegging.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 8, 2015)

Plaid Cymru miss out by 200 to Labour  on Anglesey. It was obviously going to be close here yet there was no sign of Leanne Wood campaigning here. A massive fuck up by Plaid as it was easily winnable. Now we have a joke of an MP for his third term. The mind boggles.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

xenon said:


> Prepare for a Clegging.


Only been waiting five years.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

Alex Salmond on his way to Westminster.


----------



## pogofish (May 8, 2015)

Salmond's back!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

povmcdov said:


> The thing with Stroud is that the town is pretty "alternative" and despite the badger cull, a waste incinerator that pickles forced in, the incumbent's really lazy performance on individual cases, the fact he's the most expensive MP in the South-West, and extremely bad local press coverage he STILL got in. A local tory party member who lunches with the guy once a month predicted a 5000 majority to labour to me 8 hours ago. It really beggars belief.


yeah unbelievable. Proper WTF stuff


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Social media claiming that Clegg's seat is a close vote.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

Ludlow - held by tory. bears, woods, defication etc...


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

pogofish said:


> Salmond's back!





'Pass me the duty revolver'.


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Social media claiming that Clegg's seat is a close vote.



Please please please


----------



## pogofish (May 8, 2015)

I thought you might have something to say Sass!


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

TUSC lose to the beer baccy n scratchings party


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

carswell wins in clacton,


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Carswell wins UKIPs first seat of the night.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> TUSC lose to the beer baccy n scratchings party



In Streatham they lost to the Artificial Beast.


----------



## pogofish (May 8, 2015)

Anne Begg's out - We have gone SNP at last!


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Comparatively narrow Carswell win, he'll be the only one then


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Carswell wins UKIPs first seat of the night.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

christ, look at that fucking UKIP suit! its swiss tony. thurrock btw...


----------



## buscador (May 8, 2015)

Thurrock voters hang your heads in shame.


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

Hopefully sad Clegg gets sadder soon


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

and UKIP don't take Thurrock


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Fucking hell Thurrock was close.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

pogofish said:


> I thought you might have something to say Sass!


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

marty21 said:


> that fucker Hughes is out


And replaced by Neil Coyle.  Cllr Coyle of Southwark Social Cleansing.  Don't mention the Heygate or Aylesbury...mentioned it once but I think I got away with it...


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

The only thing I may have predicted correctly is that Carswell is the only winner for UKIP.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Wyrel West, recounting.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Liberal democrats have lost their deposits now on over 100 seats.

I'm starting to feel bad for them now, that's almost a annual salary for one of the cunts!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Paulie said:


> And replaced by Neil Coyle.  Cllr Coyle of Southwark Social Cleansing.  Don't mention the Heygate or Aylesbury...mentioned it once but I think I got away with it...


Yep, shite replaced by shite


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Boris Johnson is in parliament, along with Eric Pickles' 11 chins.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

Wait, Boris?  What about his mayoring duties?


----------



## Geri (May 8, 2015)

Dave Nellist came last in Coventry NW and my TUSC friend is congratulating him on Facebook. Eh?


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Labour hold in Edinburgh South.


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Always knew I'd end up living in Edinburgh

God Boris is an irritating Tory shitbastard


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Will Boris shut up please!


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2015)

I think Mr.QofG's knows the returning officer for Boris Johnson's constituency *election trivia*


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

Hurry up with Hallam so we can get some consolation/get it over with


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Cable is out, things are honestly going tits up now, ten fold.


----------



## Geri (May 8, 2015)

Cable gone.


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

That nice Mr Cable has lost.


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

Cable looks like a little lost child. Bit too fucking late for sympathy.


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

ET fees cunt ousted


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

I'm starting to feel sorry for lib dems......


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Cable looks like a little lost child. Bit too fucking late for sympathy.



Bit more than a little lost, I'm hoping theres a retirement home not far from him as he looks brain dead.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Wow, Cable gone, 12000 majority overturned


----------



## pogofish (May 8, 2015)

West Aberdeenshire gone SNP - So that's the whole area.  Never thought I'd see the day.  

Heading for bed now.


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

The out of sync sound is tripping me out, eiher that or this election result is giving me psychosis...


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Wow, Cable gone, 12000 majority overturned



What's the swing?  39% to beat!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Is Vince Cable haunted?


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

This election is like a car crash in slow motion


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

Hallam in five minutes apparently


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Geri said:


> Cable gone.


Ha ha fuck you murderer


----------



## maomao (May 8, 2015)

Jesus christ. Saw the exit poll before I went to bed but didn't think it could be this bad. What's a good country to emigrate to?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2015)

maomao said:


> Jesus christ. Saw the exit poll before I went to bed but didn't think it could be this bad. What's a good country to emigrate to?


Scotland!


----------



## maomao (May 8, 2015)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Scotland!


That could work actually.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Starting to brighten up ever so slowly, birds are chirping away happy as ever, not realising what a fucked up country were waking up to this morning.

I was I was a bird now.


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> Wait, Boris?  What about his mayoring duties?


The way he's talked about his mayoral role just now makes it sound like a prison sentence rather than serving the people of London.


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

Suspect Clegg will edge it.


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Here we go! Hallam


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

FUCK


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

When did returning officers stop using candidates' full names?  Always got a small amount of election night entertainment from more peculiar middle names.


----------



## buscador (May 8, 2015)

Shit


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2015)

Ffs


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Wanker


----------



## Geri (May 8, 2015)

Jammy cunt.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

meh


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

I'm surprised clegg kept his seat


----------



## a_chap (May 8, 2015)

A Clegg hold then


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Clegg remains


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2015)

Bollocks. I really hoped Clegg might go


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2015)

Back to sleep can't believe I woke up for that


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> What's the swing?  39% to beat!


23.6% LD to Tory I think


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)




----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

Bollocks..I stayed up to see Clegg hold back the tears.  I want a recount.


----------



## poului (May 8, 2015)

that's such utter bullshit. I was waiting for something to cling onto and the wanker keeps his seat.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

tories gave up campaigning in Sheffield -

" Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg has held onto his Sheffield Hallam seat with 22,315 votes. Labour came in second with around 19,800"

tories 7,000ish


----------



## oryx (May 8, 2015)

Never been so pissed off to be proved right.

The one consolation of tonight was the possibility of a Portillo moment and that is fucked so really am off to bed now.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 8, 2015)

Ed Balls. Woah. According to PB comments, he's lost.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Sheffield might have confidence in you Clegg, but the rest of the country thinks you're a cunt.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

poului said:


> that's such utter bullshit. I was waiting for something to cling onto and the wanker keeps his seat.



just keep thinking Falange...


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Who the fuck are these people voting for Clegg? What the fuck. Just what the fucking fuck!


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

ER WTF happened there Hallam.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

clegg signalling that hes resigning.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Sheffield might have confidence in you Clegg, but the rest of the country thinks you're a cunt.


Sheffield doesn't. Some Tory cunts in the posh bits think he's better than labour


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

Dee Dar bleeders!
Ruined one of my last hopes of a laugh before bed!!


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Have I missed Bristol South?


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Sheffield doesn't. Some Tory cunts in the posh bits think he's better than labour



Fuck it. I'm skipping college today for this election and Nick Clegg still won. I bet the cunts laughing at me now.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Well well. Labour and BV with one MP each in Scotland.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

Are the vermin going to get a majority?


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> clegg signalling that hes resigning.



You would hope so. How could anyone style this out.


----------



## The Boy (May 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Are the vermin going to get a majority?


Looks like it


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2015)

xenon said:


> Have I missed Bristol South?


No result from there yet


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

Esther Mc Vey ....


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Jim Fitzpatrick holds Poplar and Limehouse (my constituency), UKIP somehow 3rd. WHAT THE FUCK YOU DOING PEOPLE.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Are the vermin going to get a majority?


Damn close to it


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

tories hold Dumfrieshire.


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

McVey out


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

Fuck off Mc Vey!!! Well thats one bit of good news. Off to bed now.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Fuck off McVey! Some good bloody news at last


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

I knew Tories would be back but thought would be a coalition again, not looking like it


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Fuck off McVey! Some good bloody news at last


Nice


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> Well well. Labour and BV with one MP each in Scotland.



And Libdem.  It's a disastrous night for SNP.  How can they recover from this?  They've really let themselves down.


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

From The Guardian:  "(Clegg)..says he will be making further remarks about the implications for his party, and his leadership, when he addresses colleagues later today."

'Fucked' is all he needs to say.


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2015)

Have any of the possible Green wins reported yet?


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Balls must have a squeaky arse right now


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

At least we get to see King Kipper get all stroppy when he loses


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

QueenOfGoths said:


> No result from there yet



Ta.

Might have to go to bed. It's just getting worse.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Esther McVey has lost her job. Fucking scrounger. Lazy, no job, sponging off the state etc….


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Bennett doesn't win her seat for Greens, coming 3rd.

Annoying person.


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Bennett doesn't win her seat for Greens, coming 3rd.
> 
> Annoying person.



Can't see how she can justify staying as leader


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

3 pints down, do I crack open the bottle of rum?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

kenny g said:


> 3 pints down, do I crack open the bottle of rum?


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

SE25 said:


> Can't see how she can justify staying as leader



I don't see how she was leader. I voted green, however I would never vote for that woman in my life. Lucas from Brighton would probably of done better.


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> I don't see how she was leader. I voted green, however I would never vote for that woman in my life. Lucas from Brighton would probably of done better.



Voted Green in the Euros but her embarrassing public appearances lost them my vote


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

bleary-eyed morning of the the long lentils..?

four leadership elections/barfights all at once - its christmas!


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Kennedy gone!


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

charlie K is finished. sad to see.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Charles Kennedy ousted by SNP


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Now ed's seat


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

I love the fact the English democrats putting english first get fuck all votes


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

makes me proud to be english


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

You've won the seat Edd but you've lost the battle.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

It's daylight.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Miliband on R4. Keeps Doncaster North.


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Comment from c4, lib dems have less seats than a minibus


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

kenny g said:


> I love the fact the English democrats putting english first get fuck all votes



Brick. Nick the Flying.

Monster Raving Luny party consistnatly disappointing though, in not actually being that barking mad at all. Put some bloody effort in.


----------



## maomao (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> It's daylight.


Another good reason to move to Scotland.


----------



## Chairman Meow (May 8, 2015)

Watching this in Oz, thank fuck I emigrated. Not that Abbott is any better, but I can't believe you're looking at a Tory win. Good to see the Lib Dems get fucked though.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

FUcking Borris on radio again. Urgh the smugness picks up a pace.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

Was that a UUP gain from Sinn Fein I just saw fleeting by?

I may well be hallucinating at this point.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

I'm annoyed that the Scottish tory seat covers a large geographical area making it look more important than it is.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> I'm annoyed that the Scottish tory seat covers a large geographical area making it look more important than it is.



there is however some _truly_ excellent fishing in the constituancy...


----------



## JTG (May 8, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Was that a UUP gain from Sinn Fein I just saw fleeting by?
> 
> I may well be hallucinating at this point.


Fermanagh & South Tyrone


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> I'm annoyed that the Scottish tory seat covers a large geographical area making it look more important than it is.



What is it, cattle country bit I'm guessing. Rural area.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Bowler 442 in my place best TUSC result locally, but still only 1.1%


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Dimbleby sucking up to McVey, cunts both


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

these results are very slow. I left counting my local vote at 3 am and it appears we were one of the first...


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

Labour have reaped what they sowed... people aren't as stupid as they think.


----------



## quimcunx (May 8, 2015)

xenon said:


> What is it, cattle country bit I'm guessing. Rural area.



Yep, Dumfriesshire, Clydeshire and Tweeddale.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Fell asleep for a few hours.

Anyone care to give me snapshot on direction? Xenon?


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Tory majority predicted. Fuck


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Fell asleep for a few hours.
> 
> Anyone care to give me snapshot on direction? Xenon?



Were still fucked.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Oh shite.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Fell asleep for a few hours.
> 
> Anyone care to give me snapshot on direction? Xenon?



Labour blown it, LD's extinct, UKIP 1, greens 1. tory large minority or small majority government.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

kebabking said:


> Labour blown it, LD's extinct, UKIP 1, greens 1. tory large minority or small majority government.



Anti tory bloc numbers and chance?


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

(and) / any


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Anti tory bloc numbers and chance?


300, maybe 5 more


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

Well that was worth staying up all night for


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

My seat up now. Foregone that Dave will keep his seat


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Saw somewhere the Tory filth will be one short of a majority.

UKIP in government, just?


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Disco has walked it


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> 300, maybe 5 more



Oh shit.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Anti tory bloc numbers and chance?



SNP 50+, with Lab, LD and Cons one each in Scotland, LD's might get a dozen seats in total, Labour look to fall well short of 250 seats, Tories will finish around 320.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Fell asleep for a few hours.
> 
> Anyone care to give me snapshot on direction? Xenon?



Bad, getting worse. Miliband virtually conceded the election in his speech after retaining is seat.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Anyone just see that bloke in the crowd from Witney taking a selfie of himself giving Cameron the middle finger?

How to make yourself look like a bigger dickhead than our "almighty" leader


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

xenon said:


> Bad, getting worse. Miliband virtually conceded the election in his speech after retaining is seat.



I'm in bits.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

Knawsier meter in the red. Cameron speaks. fgrfffrj


----------



## marty21 (May 8, 2015)

ffs over 2m have voted for UKIP so far


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Cameron really is a cock


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

This is the strangest election I've ever seen.

The BV give it to the country up the arse to the level of the tonsils, but the country has not kicked them squarely in the balls.


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

at least london hasn't voted like cunts.


----------



## FiFi (May 8, 2015)

Ok, I've just woken up and can't face switching the radio on yet. Break it to me gently, is it as bad as the exit poll suggested?


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

marty21 said:


> ffs over 2m have voted for UKIP so far



A million more for UKIP than the SNP. UKIP have 1 MP. The SNP have 54.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

FiFi said:


> Ok, I've just woken up and can't face switching the radio on yet. Break it to me gently, is it as bad as the exit poll suggested?



Don't throw away the lube.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

FiFi said:


> Ok, I've just woken up and can't face switching the radio on yet. Break it to me gently, is it as bad as the exit poll suggested?



if you're miliband or Clegg, worse.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Vermin have overtaken Labour now:

Tories 182
Lab 179
SNP 54
DUP 8
LD 6 (LOL)
UKIP 1

Still loads to come though...


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Wonder if disco will have the same issues on the a40 today as I do getting to work in a morning


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> I'm in bits.



Yeah. I didn't think Labour would win with a majority or anything but this. WTF happened. I know it's first past the post and all that but still, where are all these Tory voters coming from. As mentioned I spose it is soft converts to New Labour, to Libdem, to Tory seemingly being the path.


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

fuck you danny a! 11,000 fuck yous


----------



## maomao (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> This is the strangest election I've ever seen.
> 
> The BV give it to the country up the arse to the level of the tonsils, but the country has not kicked them squarely in the balls.


Thatcher did the same and helped her mates rape children too but she's an idol to people like you.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Dovydaitis said:


> Wonder if disco will have the same issues on the a40 today as I do getting to work in a morning


Helicopter


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Nellist only 41 behind the libscum, still in last place, 3.9%


----------



## 8ball (May 8, 2015)

kenny g said:


> at least london hasn't voted like cunts.



Really?


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

xenon said:


> As mentioned I spose it is soft converts to New Labour, to Libdem, to Tory seemingly being the path.



I really hope you are wrong about that, but right now I don't WTF is going on.


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Helicopter


Shit he's getting closer to me then, he will fly from brize


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

No surprise to see Tories won here again, though the Greens appear to have tripled there votes against, clearly I've set an inspiration... 

Overall, well, fuck. Glad the Lib Dems got fucking hammered and was expecting it.


----------



## xenon (May 8, 2015)

I think it's bed time now. It will all have been a bad dream when I wake up, yeah.


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Let's all contemplate what a Tory majority will really mean. £12b of cuts, EU referendum, our firemen and police scared shitless for their jobs, more intense scapegoating of the poor, disabled and unhealthy, the dismantling of our NHS and no Liberal filth to get in the way. The rich will get richer (and continue dodging their reduced taxes)

God help us all.


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2015)

Galloway looks pissed.


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

Galloway get to fuck


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Galloway gone in spectacular fashion


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

Galloway smashed out by over 10,000 votes by the Labour woman


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Farage to lose is our only hope left


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Farage to lose is our only hope left


should be soon yeah? 6am was touted..


----------



## jusali (May 8, 2015)

Oh dear what a disaster to wake up to. I had a feeling the Tories would win but totally gutted to see it actually happening.......


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> should be soon yeah? 6am was touted..


Better be


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

Farage declaration at 9.30 ish I thought.  There was some procedural thing about 'verification' which meant the count started some hours late.  Rumoured to have not won.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Fuck it,bed then


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Where did it all go so so far adrift from the polls? Something for another thread I'm sure.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Fuck it,bed then



Set the alarm clock for 2020.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Buckingham SPK hold. 

For a moment I thoguht it was the Aussie industrial band


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 8, 2015)

What's happened to BBC iPlayer?  Says BBC1 and BBC News are "currently offline".


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Where did it all go so so far adrift from the polls? Something for another thread I'm sure.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

kebabking said:


>



Not buying that - too simplistic. (Besides - he was all part of the polls, so that doesn't explain the drift)


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Danny Alexander on BBC very coy, clegg will stand down


----------



## ManchesterBeth (May 8, 2015)

Loads of Trots totally bewildered that labour are doing so poorly on my news feed. I hope this election causes them to reassess and read around the tradition they claim to represent.  I'm infuriated that my class analysis was rebutted with 'inactive keyboard revolutionary', forcing me to disclose the restrictive and abusive situation that I currently find myself in. I won't forgive these onanists for a while, for sure. frogwoman i can imagine how shit it must have been in the SP and not being permitted to dissent from the party line.


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> What's happened to BBC iPlayer?  Says BBC1 and BBC News are "currently offline".



I just noticed that. Clicked on the live election coverage from the bbc news homepage and then on the election night special video to get BBC News live.


----------



## mentalchik (May 8, 2015)

What a totally depressing morning


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

Buddy Bradley said:


> What's happened to BBC iPlayer?  Says BBC1 and BBC News are "currently offline".



Too much traffic.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 8, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> I just noticed that. Clicked on the live election coverage form the bbc news homepage and then on the election night special video to get BBC News live.


Ah, there we go - thanks.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

iPlayer working for me. FWIW.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Not buying that - too simplistic.



it could hardly be a hitherto unknown passion for the competence and vision of the conservative party - even in the conservative party.

something got previously unfussed Tories out to vote, something got - probably - previous LD's to vote Tory, and something got Labour voters to not bother...


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Where did it all go so so far adrift from the polls? Something for another thread I'm sure.


Things weren't shit enough for swing voters in swing seats in the South (outside of London) and the Midlands for them to desert the Tories.


----------



## ManchesterBeth (May 8, 2015)

5 live stream here


```
http://bbcmedia.ic.llnwd.net/stream/bbcmedia_radio5live_mf_p?s=1423670821&e=1423685221&&h=47e446c4140828a5e0d90d9bed756d5a
```


Open it in your media player etc...


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Strange to see Hughes go.

I was ambivalant to him, but he seemed keen and liked. From my own pov, at least he was felled from the left.


----------



## ska invita (May 8, 2015)

i wonder what the result would be if the scottish vote was the same as last year?


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

dialectician said:


> frogwoman i can imagine how shit it must have been in the SP and not being permitted to dissent from the party line.



In which bizarre paralel universe is this the case? The trotbots don't dissent from the party line because of some kind if aggressive centralism but because they genuinely believe it. Not sure if that's better or worse but it's the truth. You can dissent abd plenty do - fw was one of them. I'm still technically a member and I dissent all the time, sometimes even when I agree with them just to wind up hacks and fulltimers.


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Tory filth already admitting to increasing surveillance powers. Scum.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

Are the vermin really gonna get a majority?


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

SpineyNorman said:


> Are the vermin really gonna get a majority?


effectively, even if not technically


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

There's a news helicopter following Dave's car...are they expecting something?  Could we collectively get some tele-kinesis roll the car thing going?


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

So if they're say one or two short of an absolute majority who are their most likely partners? Assuming they'll avoid ukip so unionists or lib dems?


----------



## ManchesterBeth (May 8, 2015)

SpineyNorman said:


> In which bizarre paralel universe is this the case? The trotbots don't dissent from the party line because of some kind if aggressive centralism but because they genuinely believe it. Not sure if that's better or worse but it's the truth. You can dissent abd plenty do - fw was one of them. I'm still technically a member and I dissent all the time, sometimes even when I agree with them just to wind up hacks and fulltimers.



Sorry, you're correct, I should reword that. I can imagine your dissent not being permitted/ridiculed even amongst the rank-and-file, or neutralised so much so that it doesn't necessarily serve the function of dissent. Lord knows not being able to dissent because of aggressive centralism would probably make the party members more critical.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

uu or dup can be relied upon often enough.  its their own hard right they have to be wary of

it is '92 all over again.  prepare for oasis


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

Paulie said:


> There's a news helicopter following Dave's car...are they expecting something?  Could we collectively get some tele-kinesis roll the car thing going?


Anyone got one of them anti aircraft missiles?


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

the tusc results have been shit


----------



## weltweit (May 8, 2015)

Just got up, any news on Ed Balls?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 8, 2015)

What a depressing morning. Christ on a fucking bike!!!


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> uu or dup can be relied upon often enough.  its their own hard right they have to be wary of
> 
> it is '92 all over again.  prepare for oasis



No! Anything but that - I'd even take the reincarnation of Thatcher over that


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> the tusc results have been shit



Now there's a surprise.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Just got up, any news on Ed Balls?


Still a massive cunt is the latest I believe.


----------



## stethoscope (May 8, 2015)

Just woke up - fuck sake  What sort of country do fucking Tory voters really want?! Depressing


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

SpineyNorman said:


> Now there's a surprise.


i did think a few people would do better. but, other than tottenham, they've all been absolutely awful


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> the tusc results have been shit



It's their first election.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> i did think a few people would do better. but, other than tottenham, they've all been absolutely awful


What did nellist do?


----------



## Geri (May 8, 2015)

Once I get back from my holiday a week today I am going to start preparing for the revolution. I have contacts now, I can get guns.


----------



## Geri (May 8, 2015)

SpineyNorman said:


> What did nellist do?


 
He came last.


----------



## purenarcotic (May 8, 2015)

This is devastating.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> It's their first election.


no it isn't


SpineyNorman said:


> What did nellist do?


3.9%, very marginal increase on last time


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

I'm finally out of steam, bed beckons. Good morning all.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

Geri said:


> He came last.


What was his vote like? I've ashtrays thought that in the unlikely event of a Tusc breakthrough he'd be the one to make it.

Edit: Ashtrays left in for posterity as it made me lol on a depressing morning but I meant always - predictive text!


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

Ed Balls making his way to the stage


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 8, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Ed Balls making his way to the stage



I'll wait for that.


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2015)

What the fuck? 

Really didn't see this coming.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 8, 2015)

To paraphrase Tiny Tim, "God help us, every one."


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

Geri said:


> Once I get back from my holiday a week today I am going to start preparing for the revolution. I have contacts now, I can get guns.


What about tanks? Definitely need tanks if we're gonna be doing the revolution.


----------



## Cid (May 8, 2015)

The fuck happened in Wales?


----------



## yardbird (May 8, 2015)

Labour with David Miliband instead of Ed would have done much better.
Public image = votes.
Fickle public.


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I'll wait for that.



He's smiling. Could be nerves?


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

I liked tusc but weren't standing in my area otherwise would have been a solid cross from me. A relatively unknown party but I think they will get stronger, will take a while though


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

Sasaferrato said:


> I'll wait for that.



You can go to bed, looks like there will be a recount now.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

they're recounting the balls!


----------



## Combustible (May 8, 2015)

Cid said:


> The fuck happened in Wales?



Not very much by the looks of it. Tories taken two seats from Labour and 1 Lib Dem, the other Lib Dem gone to Labour. Gower is obviously one of the posher parts but I think the constituency also includes some poorer surrounding areas, which is why it was held by Labour previously.


----------



## Geri (May 8, 2015)

SpineyNorman said:


> What about tanks? Definitely need tanks if we're gonna be doing the revolution.


 
Bit harder unless we can liberate some army bases.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

If Nick Clegg resigns, does their only other MP become leader by default?


----------



## aqua (May 8, 2015)

So, another Tory government, what can we expect this term? What else will be destroyed?


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

in my tired state, I wish I'd stood in Tatton, lost my deposit, but gained the chance to punch out Osbourne live on telly


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

What the fuck's happened then. Oh, and morning


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Just a thought: what will the Tories do with the Human Rights Act?


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

I'm numb. Absolutely numb. I can't do another 5 years of this


----------



## Sparkle Motion (May 8, 2015)

Geri said:


> Bit harder unless we can liberate some army bases.


They closed all the army bases and turned them into Tory voting housing estates.


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Paulie said:


> in my tired state, I wish I'd stood in Tatton, lost my deposit, but gained the chance to punch out Osbourne live on telly


I would have given you the deposit as a gift


----------



## weltweit (May 8, 2015)

I think Milliband didn't help his cause by looking smug in the last few days.
I don't think voters like to be taken for granted.


----------



## Mation (May 8, 2015)

Make it all go away, pls


----------



## Crispy (May 8, 2015)

u
g
h


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> I think Milliband didn't help his cause by looking smug in the last few days.


never did cameron any harm


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

on the positive side bojo won't be pm immediately


----------



## Geri (May 8, 2015)

Fucking TUSC friends lecturing about how voting Labour hasn't worked. The fucking barefaced cheek of it.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 8, 2015)

I prefer waking up from a nightmare than waking up to one...


----------



## aqua (May 8, 2015)

SE25 said:


> Just a thought: what will the Tories do with the Human Rights Act?


It doesn't bare thinking about right now. I don't think I can cope with it


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> on the positive side bojo won't be pm immediately



Home Secretary? Water cannons ftw.


----------



## Idaho (May 8, 2015)

Elections are very simple. You need a tall leader with a modicum of charisma. That's it. You don't even need any policies really. 

Labour fucked it really badly.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 8, 2015)

aqua said:


> So, another Tory government, what can we expect this term? What else will be destroyed?


Things will just carry on in exactly the same way they have done for decades. Just as they would've done if Labour had won.


----------



## golightly (May 8, 2015)

Suggestions that Harriet Harman may become caretaker Labour leader.


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

Apparently after the first count Ed Balls was 91 votes behind and asked for a recount.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Geri said:


> Fucking TUSC friends lecturing about how voting Labour hasn't worked. The fucking barefaced cheek of it.


i've just seen that.

it felt too rude to point out how tusc did


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

*Michael Harris*  @mjrharris     ·   2m 2 minutes ago 
Ed Miliband hasn't even arrived at Brewer's Green and his entire team has quit. It's over. Announcement in morning.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

golightly said:


> Suggestions that Harriet Harman may become caretaker Labour leader.


again


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

.


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

aqua said:


> It doesn't bare thinking about right now. I don't think I can cope with it



It's a massive blow for social justice. I'm glad I found this forum though, at least there will be some who I can share my disgust with.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

libscum down to eight seats now, apparently

which is as close as i'll get to a happy ending, so good night, and good luck


----------



## Geri (May 8, 2015)

Oh, and I also getting fed up of being lectured to by people who chose not to vote. Fuck off.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (May 8, 2015)

So at one point - before the exit poll - there's a result that could have severely dented the confidence of the old interests the surround the Tory party, but now we wake up to future where the Tory party are powerful enough to reinforce their hold on power and carry that through into another parliament like they did in 1983


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 8, 2015)

Labour win Brighton Hove


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 8, 2015)

This guy just won the election


----------



## weltweit (May 8, 2015)

R4 says Caroline Lucas looks likely to retain her seat


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 8, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> Things will just carry on in exactly the same way they have done for decades. Just as they would've done if Labour had won.



'exactly the same'? Staggering fucking nuance there.


----------



## extra dry (May 8, 2015)

Glad not to be in Britain any more, it is going to be a very difficult time for many over the following four or five years.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> Things weren't shit enough for swing voters in swing seats in the South (outside of London) and the Midlands for them to desert the Tories.


Plus loads of yellow vermin have defected to the Tories. Last number I saw was a 7% swing


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Plus loads of yellow vermin have defected to the Tories. Last number I saw was a 7% swing



Hope they don't bother moaning in five years.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Home Secretary? Water cannons ftw.


that's taken the joy about jim murphy away


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 8, 2015)

Caroline Lucas re-elected for Greens in Brighton Pavilion


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

SE25 said:


> Hope they don't bother moaning in five years.


Why would they? If it's done anything it's made apparent that they're shits of the same suit.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

golightly said:


> Suggestions that Harriet Harman may become caretaker Labour leader.


one of those grey school caretaker coats would suit her


----------



## Divisive Cotton (May 8, 2015)

Caronline Lucas won by a large majority of 8k - added 11% to her vote


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Current turnout is 65.8%, only just higher than 2010


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Divisive Cotton said:


> Caronline Lucas won by a large majority of 8k - added 11% to her vote



Would have loved to have seen Bristol West win for the greens.:-/


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Why would they? If it's done anything it's made apparent that they're shits of the same suit.



True. Never trust a liberal.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

Cant sleep. Utterly devastated. The torys are going to take the gloves off now - expect big cuts to tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit and a massive slashing of local authority services. We keep the bedroom tax. The DWP will carry on sanctioning people en mass and the welfare system will be progressively replaced by charity sticking plaster stuff like food banks. fuck fuck fucking fuck. Not optimistic that my job will last till the end of the year.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 8, 2015)

Oh fuck no ...


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

It's just getting worse and fucking worse.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

golightly said:


> Suggestions that Harriet Harman may become caretaker Labour leader.


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

Fuck

Wtf just happened?


----------



## friedaweed (May 8, 2015)

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/gener...-election-tweet/ar-BBjoyUQ?ocid=mailsignoutmd

Can they put him in the tower now for this?


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2015)

Labour miles off here in the two Reading seats. Nowhere near.


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Cant sleep. Utterly devastated. The torys are going to take the gloves off now - *expect big cuts to tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit* and a massive slashing of local authority services. We keep the bedroom tax. The DWP will carry on sanctioning people en mass and the welfare system will be progressively replaced by charity sticking plaster stuff like food banks. fuck fuck fucking fuck. Not optimistic that my job will last till the end of the year.



Hope my mother as someone who votes Tory because her mum does so feels fucking stupid when this happens as she benefits from all of these. Turkey voting for Christmas.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Fuck
> 
> Wtf just happened?



liberals. That's what just happened


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> liberals. That's what just happened


Jesus, my constituency still has a LD MP.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Is he the leader now?


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Is he the leader now?



2 Lib Dems could stand for leadership. Then it all depends how the other 5 vote, I guess.


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

Is nick clegg gone at least?,


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Jesus, my constituency still has a LD MP.



Unlucky. Still could have been worse could have voted Tory. Actually, I'm not sure what's worse.


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Is nick clegg gone at least?,



Nope.


----------



## gentlegreen (May 8, 2015)

I helped kick out the Lidem in Bristol West .. was it actually a good thing since we now have an undiluted Tory government.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Is nick clegg gone at least?,


Nope but it won't be long not even the yellow cult will keep him now


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Is nick clegg gone at least?,



Liberal Democrat leader retained his Sheffield Hallam seat with 22,215 votes.

He won with a majority of 2,353 - down from a substantial win in 2010 where he had a majority of 15,284.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Fuck
> 
> Wtf just happened?



The people have Grinned Themselves to Death


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 8, 2015)

So Livingstone says that Labour voters moved on cos we didn't build homes for their kids

That's one way of looking at it I spose


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Cant sleep. Utterly devastated. The torys are going to take the gloves off now - expect big cuts to tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit and a massive slashing of local authority services. We keep the bedroom tax. The DWP will carry on sanctioning people en mass and the welfare system will be progressively replaced by charity sticking plaster stuff like food banks. fuck fuck fucking fuck. Not optimistic that my job will last till the end of the year.



In my job, my workmates are mostly EU non brits. Now the threat of an axe over the heads.

No improvement for generation rent. Me and most Londoners now.

Brutal cuts for the people that need help most. Tax 'help' for people that can otherwise afford to make things better for everyone.

Human rights slanted into a bin of "it helps terrorists/foreigners/whatever".

A living wage decried with "flexible" zero hours employment, where everyone is employed, but a vast number have no idea what / how they will be actually paid.


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> Nope.



Wtf?? 

How many more left to declare?


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 8, 2015)

Ashdown refuses to eat hat #morelibdemlies


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Wtf??
> 
> How many more left to declare?



43 left. Can't think of too many more interesting results to come. Farage and the Ed Balls recount perhaps?


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman 43 left to declare


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

not-bono-ever said:


> So Livingstone says that Labour voters moved on cos we didn't build homes for their kids
> 
> That's one way of looking at it I spose


Well his main point (one that cesare made above), that the move to the right didn't save Labour, is correct. The SNP murdered them in Scotland, McDonnell had a swing to him.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> liberals. That's what just happened



They deaded. They aren't what just happened. It's *worse* than that... imho


----------



## PursuedByBears (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> liberals. That's what just happened


And SNP.


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2015)

About the only cheer I'm taking from the night...


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

Wait a minute, Boris Johnson is an MP for Uxbridge and Ruislip South, yet he is still Mayor of London? How is that even possible?
Does this mean we face the possibility of him as PM? 
And though it was pleasing to see Galloway lose, he's gonna come back to London to annoy us, isn't he? Running for mayor.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Wait a minute, Boris Johnson is an MP for Uxbridge and Ruislip South, yet he is still Mayor of London? How is that even possible?
> Does this mean we face the possibility of him as PM?



Wonder if they will do a Blair/Brown swap in three or four years' time. Something to look forward to.


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

Wtf. 

Dovydaitis join me and a mate in the pub tonight, drown our sorrows?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Average swings so far

Con to Lab - 0.44% 
LD to Con - 7.84% 
LD to Lab - 8.27%


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

*strikes up Nearer My God to Thee*


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 8, 2015)

The tories look like winning an overall majority with around just 36% of the vote. Wouldn't that be the lowest percentage ever for a 'majority' government?

We badly need electoral reform, but I can't see us ever getting it.


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Sounds a plan, will be a quick one though as been up since 3.....


----------



## ibilly99 (May 8, 2015)

Worst possible result - I think a lot of wavering English voters were scared into voting Tory at the prospect of a Scottish tail wagging the English dog.


----------



## Cid (May 8, 2015)

PursuedByBears said:


> And SNP.



They've wiped out Labour in Scotland, but they haven't shifted the balance rightward - the liberals have.


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

Dovydaitis said:


> Sounds a plan, will be a quick one though as been up since 3.....



Lol. Went bed at 2 and kept waking up


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2015)

Labour are fucked after this.


----------



## PursuedByBears (May 8, 2015)

Labour gain Lancaster & Fleetwood, we managed to kick the Tory out after all. Pyrrhic victory.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> About the only cheer I'm taking from the night...



Not the same head culling, but on that Alexendar theme:


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

balls


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

Ed Balls now


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Does this mean we face the possibility of him as PM?



Hardly.  He was always going to walk the parliamentary seat, but arse-features isn't going anywhere any time soon, in the wake of last night.


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

lost by 18354 to  18776


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Goodbye Ed 'Ed Balls' Balls


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

Balls has gone!


----------



## Ted Striker (May 8, 2015)

New Balls please


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Reckless gone.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> Labour are fucked after this.



My thoughts as well.


----------



## bemused (May 8, 2015)

It's not nice to gloat when someone loses their job, but when it comes to Ed Balls it's hard not to.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

Balls gone. 

Yvette clear to stand?


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)




----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

Never thought of Yorkshire as Tory territory...


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> Labour are fucked after this.



Well, maybe not. Labour is now an England and Wales party, at least as far as the PLP goes. That should makes it nimbler in terms of messaging. The collapse of the LibDems means that there is a vacancy in the centre ground. Cameron, meanwhile, will be dragged rightwards by a 1922 committee which scents blood and opportunity. The electorate really doesn't realise what it has done: austerity is going to hit far harder this term than last, and by 2017 the narrative will have shifted hard.

Umana or Jarvis - or someone else who can mollify middle England, win over political editors and woo the city - has every hope of a solid majority in 2020.


----------



## doddles (May 8, 2015)

Cid said:


> They've wiped out Labour in Scotland, but they haven't shifted the balance rightward - the liberals have.


Seriously?? Nothing to do with Blair and Brown??


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

[/crap joke about a cock with no balls goes here]


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Paulie said:


> Never thought of Yorkshire as Tory territory...


Why fucking North Riding wankers are Tory shills, see Hague


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Paulie said:


> Never thought of Yorkshire as Tory territory...



Eh?  Most of rural Yorkshire is as true blue as it gets.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

DEAD BALLS


----------



## prunus (May 8, 2015)

Well, that went badly.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

I don't think Ed Balls had this particular speech prepared...


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Eh?  Most of rural Yorkshire is as true blue as it gets.


Oh yeah - i'm tired and stupid ...


----------



## bemused (May 8, 2015)

kebabking said:


> Balls gone.
> 
> Yvette clear to stand?



Yep, she'd be a decent leader


----------



## Cid (May 8, 2015)

doddles said:


> Seriously?? Nothing to do with Blair and Brown??



Well that too, I mean in terms of the Tory gains in this election.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> Labour are fucked after this.


Good. Fucking serves them right.


----------



## kebabking (May 8, 2015)

bemused said:


> Yep, she'd be a decent leader



certainly clever enough, and certainly personable - is she tainted by the whole Miliband/Brown/Balls debacle?


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Dovydaitis said:


> balls


It's gotta be..."*were you up for Balls?*"


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

kebabking said:


> certainly clever enough, and certainly personable - is she tainted by the whole Miliband/Brown/Balls debacle?


Not too much.

They'd be mad not to pick her.


----------



## bemused (May 8, 2015)

kebabking said:


> certainly clever enough, and certainly personable - is she tainted by the whole Miliband/Brown/Balls debacle?



Just from my perception I think one of the real issues both the Tories and Labour had was the they run such a managed sterile campaign you essentially ended up with Dave and Ed plastic action figures running our set piece slogans. Neither of them were authentic, Davy some just slightly more personable. 

They need someone who comes across as an human being and a lot less managed.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

bemused said:


> Just from my perception I think one of the real issues both the Tories and Labour had was the they run such a managed sterile campaign you essentially ended up with Dave and Ed plastic action figures running our set piece slogans. Neither of them were authentic, Davy some just slightly more personable.
> 
> They need someone who comes across as an human being and a lot less managed.



I'd argue that Ed came across more human, but it's a 'whatever' now. :-/


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> About the only cheer I'm taking from the night...



Agreed. So depressed right now. This vote is my valium.


----------



## jusali (May 8, 2015)

Passports renewed, human traffickers appointed............ I'm off!


----------



## bemused (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> I'd argue that Ed came across more human, but it's a 'whatever' now. :-/



He came across very well during the election campaign, I quite like him. I think it was too high a hill to climb.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

bemused said:


> They need someone who comes across as an human being and a lot less managed.



Ed came across as fairly human but was utterly and totally crucified by the press for it, how dare he eat a bacon sandwich! and that kitchen, SHAME ON HIM!

Fucks sake, someone needs to shoot Murdoch


----------



## ibilly99 (May 8, 2015)

Cameron to Salmond "Cheque , what cheque old bean , and don't slam the door on the way out."


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

Very last hope now, a combine of Lab + SNP (etc... the anti con bloc) can make things awkward for the Cons in government.

I know, I'm clutching at shitty straws.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

PursuedByBears said:


> And SNP.



Difference is Scots voted for their country, liberals voted for their lying bastard selves. Never trust a liberal.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Very last hope now, a combine of Lab + SNP (etc... the anti con bloc) can make things awkward for the Cons in government.



The only people making life awkward for Cameron will be his backbenchers.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (May 8, 2015)




----------



## bemused (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> Very last hope now, a combine of Lab + SNP (etc... the anti con bloc) can make things awkward for the Cons in government.
> 
> I know, I'm clutching at shitty straws.



I can see them giving Scotland more power and passing the English MP votes for English laws bill.


----------



## rekil (May 8, 2015)

Galloway's loser speech started alright but then segued effortlessly into trademark vainglorious nonsense - "The hyena can dance on the lion's grave but it can never be a lion"


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Good. Fucking serves them right.


Too true, I'm not going to shed any tears over the pricks. They're already lurching even more to the right - see scum like Picarda on the other thread, Hodges etc.

Fuck them, this isn't the fault of people for not voting for them (how dare those Scots desert us!), it's _*their fault*_ for taking w/c voters for granted for x number of years, for arguing that they'll be tougher on benefits than the tories, for having their only line be "well at least you're not the tories" while still arguing for austerity.

It's worth noting that the Tories barely increased their share of the vote from 2010. Those of us with pro-w/c politics shouldn't fall in with the "british people = Turkeys voting for Xmas" bullshit that already starts to be coming from some areas. We should take promise from the fact that even on a weak social-democratic message the SNP and Greens have done well.

The challenge for us is to not to let this throw us from the workplace and community work that we do but to try and use these new opportunities that will come up to take the fight in different directions.


----------



## mack (May 8, 2015)

I thought when  I went to bed at 1 last night that I might wake up to something less nightmarish, instead it really is 5 more years of this con shite.

Oh well props to Sarah Jones in Croydon central - she put up a fierce fight but lost out by a hundred and something votes


----------



## Idris2002 (May 8, 2015)

copliker said:


> Galloway's loser speech started alright but then segued effortlessly into trademark vainglorious nonsense - "The hyena can dance on the lion's grave but it can never be a lion"



The irony being that GG is a hyena who thinks he's a lion.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

The anti-SNP vote was evenly split here. Had the Unionists acted together Anne Begg would have kept her seat.


----------



## Libertad (May 8, 2015)

I can't bring myself to read the last fifty pages and reinforce my misery so I'll just have to try and keep up from here. Fuck this is bad, I took a brew up to La Liberette and managed to stave off telling her the truth by entertaining her with tales of the SNP's successes. I saved Danny Alexander 'til last for the lulz and then I had to tell her the rest.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

mack said:


> I thought when  I went to bed at 1 last night that I might wake up to something less nightmarish, instead it really is 5 more years of this con shite.
> 
> Oh well props to Sarah Jones in Croydon central - she put up a fierce fight but lost out by a hundred and something votes


I said that Ashcroft's poll predicting this was 'rogue'. I was wrong and he was right. Turns out that the former LDs of CroCent were the only ones that he polled who told the truth about their breaking Con/Lab...the stupid fuckers.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

If the Tories only just squeak it, which looks likely, there'll be another election sooner rather than later.


----------



## Corax (May 8, 2015)

WTF UK?

I must still be asleep, this can't be real.

I'd like to know what a _*proper*_ PR system would have produced?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

ChrisC said:


> I just have to say I feel sad and disappointed. Well Britain you have made your bed, now lay in it.


^ This bullshit posted on another thread is the type of crap I'm talking about. I mean regardless of anything else it's just factually wrong. The Tories will take less than 40% of the vote on a turnout that won't be much higher than 2010.

I said Labour got the result it deserved well then so did much of the Left. You treat the electorate as fools to be lectured and they'll tell you to fuck off - see what happened to Labour in Scotland.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Brighton Kemptown.

You stupid fucking Greens.


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

When's Farage up?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

Spoke to the first person who told me they voted Tory this morning, a colleague who helps children with special educational needs. The reason? They didn't like/trust Milliband.
Is this how people vote? Would explain a lot.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> When's Farage up?


10 to 11 apparently.

He's obviously lost.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Brighton Kemptown.
> 
> You stupid fucking Greens.


Didn't see that, split the vote I take it?


----------



## heinous seamus (May 8, 2015)

Good to see the TUSC candidate trounced the National Front by a resounding 20 vote margin in Aberdeen North


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Didn't see that, split the vote I take it?


Yes


----------



## killer b (May 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> Labour are fucked after this.


There's some positives. Id have preferred a labour government (and voted that way), but the next best thing is their utter destruction. They cant be pushed as our knight in shining armour anymore.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

So we have to look forward to getting hunting back, more shot badgers, an eviscerated BBC, more free schools, tax cuts at the top, Branson running the hospitals, concealment of past tory noncery until the perpetrators have died off and a mass sell-off of social housing?  How do we put a stick in these spokes?


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 8, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> The irony being that GG is a hyena who thinks he's a lion.



or a man who thinks he's a cat


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

killer b said:


> There's some positives. Id have preferred a labour government (and voted that way), but the next best thing is their utter destruction. They cant be pushed as our knight in shining armour anymore.


Hmmm, I'd love you to be right but I very much doubt it. They're be plenty around who still argue that we have to unite behind them to kick the Tories out - hell I've already heard this message from a number of quarters.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> The irony being that GG is a hyena who thinks he's a lion.



Don't be daft, Hyena's are hard working, efficient hunters who get things done then get everything stolen by fucking lions. 

Galloway is just a cunt.


----------



## doddles (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> ^ This bullshit posted on another thread is the type of crap I'm talking about. I mean regardless of anything else it's just factually wrong. The Tories will take less than 40% of the vote on a turnout that won't be much higher than 2010


I might be tempted to rephrase the original quote as "So, England, you made your bed..." What will the combined Tory+UKIP+LibDem vote be for England? That's the real story here. They are the people who have effectively voted for decimation of public services and welfare. And that's a pretty sizeable chunk of the English voters.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 8, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Don't be daft, Hyena's are hard working, efficient hunters who get things done then get everything stolen by fucking lions.
> 
> Galloway is just a cunt.



It was like, a metaphor, and shit. Much like your own usage of a coarse euphemism for an anatomical part - which indeed fails the same test to which you put my zoological simile, given that said part is actually of some use.


----------



## iamwithnail (May 8, 2015)

So goddamn angry.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> It was like, a metaphor, and shit. Much like your own usage of a coarse euphemism for an anatomical part - which indeed fails the same test to which you put my zoological simile, given that said part is actually of some use.



Cheerfully noted, would you accept "He's a rotten sack of piss"?


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Milibrand gone.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 8, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Cheerfully noted, would you accept "He's a rotten sack of piss"?


I'm all for the precise and appropriate use of language, so yes your alternative usage is accepted.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Milibrand gone.


The little boy who broke his father's heart.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Jesus...I've just looked at the map...LD Carshalton and Wallington really does show up now. That vermin presumptive aire of a twat that stood must feel such a fucking muppet to have lost to Brake.


----------



## scifisam (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> ^ This bullshit posted on another thread is the type of crap I'm talking about. I mean regardless of anything else it's just factually wrong. The Tories will take less than 40% of the vote on a turnout that won't be much higher than 2010.
> 
> I said Labour got the result it deserved well then so did much of the Left. You treat the electorate as fools to be lectured and they'll tell you to fuck off - see what happened to Labour in Scotland.



But the Tories treat the electorate as fools to be lectured to and it works for them.


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

This country is more full of complete cunts than even I would have believed possible.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2015)

Miserable night in Wales. 9 fucking vermin including Cardiff North and Gower. UKIP outpolling Plaid. 

Labour stood for nothing and inspired no one. Such a shame Plaid haven't made a break through.


----------



## flypanam (May 8, 2015)

People before Profit in Belfast West did well. Gerry Carroll got 19% of the vote.


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

Not going to turn on the TV for a while


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

scifisam said:


> But the Tories treat the electorate as fools to be lectured to and it works for them.


Well firstly it's worth noting that despite it being a fantastic night for them in terms of seats, there are probably aren't that many more people voting for them in 2015 than 2010, roughly 28% of the electorate. It's looking like they've lost a considerable number of voters to UKIP, though they've made those numbers up from the LDs.

But for all their cuntiness I didn't see them coming out with the same chest-prodding that Labour did (_and are still doing!)_ to their Scottish voters. The Tories played the self-interest card to the liberals and it worked.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Just got about an hours sleep before I head into college, still can't even believe that the Exit Poll for the Tories was practically right besides being off by a few figures.

What the fuck have you done, England? You deserve the shit you get now. Fuck you.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

Goodbye Ed


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> What the fuck have you done, England? You deserve the shit you get now. Fuck you.


No fuck you! Those on benefits don't deserve to be hounded more, those on the minimum wage don't deserve  tosee their rate of living go down even further, those in unions face don't deserve even more challenges to the work they do, single parents don't deserve to be forced away from looking after their kids to work at poorly paid jobs etc

How dare you! This is precisely the crap I was talking about. If you believe this then you're part of the problem, on their side and no comrade of mine.


----------



## ska invita (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Jesus...I've just looked at the map...LD Carshalton and Wallington really does show up now. That vermin presumptive aire of a twat that stood must feel such a fucking muppet to have lost to Brake.


this is why i dont leave london much


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> No fuck you! Those on benefits don't deserve to be hounded more, those on the minimum wage don't deserve  tosee their rate of living go down even further, those in unions face don't deserve even more challenges to the work they do, single parents don't deserve to be forced away from looking after their kids to work at poorly paid jobs etc
> 
> How dare you! This is precisely the crap I was talking about. If you believe this then you're part of the problem, on their side and no comrade of mine.



Reading this makes me realise that what I said was a bit selfish on giving national blame. Suppose it's just the anger getting to me, as it probably has for everyone.

Fuck the Tory voters for leading us to oblivion for the next 5 years.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

There are people saying they are leaving the country now. Twats.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Reading this makes me realise that what I said was a bit selfish on giving national blame. Suppose it's just the anger getting to me, as it probably has for everyone.
> 
> Fuck the Tory voters for leading us to oblivion for the next 5 years.


TBH I probably was a bit too strong, apols for the FU.

But I think it's so important that those with left/progressive/working class/socialist/whatever politics don't fall into that trap of blaming people for being too stupid to see the light.

If we do that then the Tories (of all colours) have won. And if your feeling shit just remind yourself in the end we, labour (small l obviously), *will win*, we cannot not win.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> There are people saying they are leaving the country now. Twats.


they might be going on holiday


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2015)

Sorry if any of this is incomprehensible bollocks but I've been up all night and I am posting from my phone which I struggle with at the best of times.

Yes I am fucked of that the Tories have won but I am trying to be philosophical about it. I was quite excited in the run up to this election as it looked like all three of the main parties were losing it. I did not want Labour to win the election, I wanted the conservatives to lose. I maintain that there is a distinction between the two. 

OK so it hasn't quite worked out like that as it looks like the scum have just about scrapped a win. But I have got a lot of joy from waving the lib dem colapse, I epically liked watching Cable go. Yes we face more years of austerity but that was true  whatever the result of the election. There was not a choice between austerity or no austerity, just between two different plans for austerity, and while the Tories may be stronger the government is weaker. A weak tory government may even be preferable to a strong Labour one. (cluching at straws?)

I conservative win may look like a vote for austerity, and it is true that one reason I would have preferred a Labour win is that, whatever the reality in practice, on some level it could be seen as a rejection of the austerity project. But the tory vote was around 35% of a 65% turnout, I am too tired to do the math, that's what, 20 odd percent of the electorate? Hardly a ringing endorsement. Once again the single largest vote was for no one. The real story of this election is the continued collapse of the mainstream.


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

I have big hopes for the Al-Zebabist Nation of Oog


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Sorry if any of this is incomprehensible bollocks but I've been up all night and I am posting from my phone which I struggle with at the best of times.
> 
> Yes I am fucked of that the Tories have won but I am trying to be philosophical about it. I was quite excited in the run up to this election as it looked like all three of the main parties were losing it. I did not want Labour to win the election, I wanted the conservatives to lose. I maintain that there is a distinction between the two.
> 
> ...


Top post


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> There are people saying they are leaving the country now. Twats.


Where are they planning to move to?


----------



## doddles (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> No fuck you! Those on benefits don't deserve to be hounded more, those on the minimum wage don't deserve  tosee their rate of living go down even further, those in unions face don't deserve even more challenges to the work they do, single parents don't deserve to be forced away from looking after their kids to work at poorly paid jobs etc
> 
> How dare you! This is precisely the crap I was talking about. If you believe this then you're part of the problem, on their side and no comrade of mine.


You're absolutely right, of course - those people deserve solidarity, not anger (except those from the groups above who voted Tory or UKIP - and there would a few). 

The problem is, that even amongst Labour voters, there's a large number who would position the party further right than they are, who have no real desire to tackle the fundamental problems faced by society (such as unsustainable economic policy, pandering to multinationals and banks, signing up to things like the TTIP, PPIs, etc. etc.). So if you lump them in with the Tory, UKIP and LibDem voters, you're probably looking at about 75% of the English population who would collectively vote either for the status quo or a move further to the right. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to them, "you reap what you sow".

I voted Green this election. I thought about a "tactical" vote for Labour, but it wouldn't have made a shred of difference in the end, and I'm glad with my choice. I won't be voting tactically again - all my life I've been forced into doing that, and I'm done. Labour *might* have got a tactical vote from me this time if they'd made a referendum on PR voting a mainstay of their campaign. They didn't, despite standing side by side with the Tories to defeat the AV referendum, justifying their stance with statements that AV didn't go far enough and they would bring in PR. Bullshit. They had years in power to do that, had no intention then and have none now.


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Top post


I obviously need to post more when exhausted.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> There are people saying they are leaving the country now. Twats.



It's a tempting thing to say (it's usually a joke of course) but ultimately its just an expression of individualism, the life blood upon which neoliberalism sucks.


----------



## weltweit (May 8, 2015)

Blimey, George Galloway got totally thrashed in Bradford West!


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

every cloud has a silver lining.


----------



## doddles (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> There are people saying they are leaving the country now. Twats.


Why? Have you thought about people who don't necessarily owe their allegiance to the UK? Citizens of other countries, people married to people from other countries, people who feel a stronger bond with, e.g. Europe than they do with the UK? There's all sorts of reasons why this election result might be the tipping point for someone to want to leave, without their only reason being one of selfishness.


----------



## beareis (May 8, 2015)

We are doomed. Goodbye NHS.


----------



## weltweit (May 8, 2015)

So, there is going to be the promised EU referendum then.


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

Did gove keep his seat?


----------



## mack (May 8, 2015)

Hopefully there will be some entertainment over the next five years when the tories start ripping themselves apart again over Euro issues.


----------



## campanula (May 8, 2015)

On a purely local level, the Cambridge results have been interesting - Huppert the muppe(r)t demolished (for which I am grateful - my son was at school with him and he was a weasel then). The last decade has seen the face of Cambridge change beyond all comprehension as every sordid developer with a few bob has rushed to build some crappy version of 'student accomodation' - in reality, none of it is - it is all buy-to-let shite of outstanding shoddiness which ducks every development criteria by using the catch-all phrase 'student'. My allotment is likely to be given a reprieve (since my local councillor has a plot there). I imagine Cambridge city could be a canary for future Labour policy - whither leftwards or even further to the right.
I am escaping to a place where there is no electricity though as I simply cannot bear the fanfare of Tory triumphalism...and despite trying hard to concentrate on numbers and proportions (of the voting electorate) I still feel utterly depressed as it is fairly obvious to me that a low turnout of engaged voters is exactly the situation desired by politcos of all stripes.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Blimey, George Galloway got totally thrashed in Bradford West!



His face was priceless.


----------



## beareis (May 8, 2015)

And, how can anybody in the whole wide world vote for some creature like Grant Snaps?!


----------



## weltweit (May 8, 2015)

Dovydaitis said:


> Did gove keep his seat?


Yes, by a massive margin.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000983


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

mack said:


> Hopefully there will be some entertainment over the next five years when the tories start ripping themselves apart again over Euro issues.



Super powerful right-wing backbenchers can cause havoc.


----------



## ffsear (May 8, 2015)

the SNP?


----------



## kabbes (May 8, 2015)

Fair play to the exit pollsters.  But the polling organisations are going to have to go back to the drawing board after this.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Fair play to the exit pollsters.  But the polling organisations are going to have to go back to the drawing board after this.


they never left the drawing board.


----------



## scifisam (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> There are people saying they are leaving the country now. Twats.



I fucking would if I could.


----------



## weltweit (May 8, 2015)

UKIP 3.5m votes: 1 seat
SNP 1.5m votes: 56 seats

?


----------



## scifisam (May 8, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Fair play to the exit pollsters.  But the polling organisations are going to have to go back to the drawing board after this.



I'm slightly suspicious about the early poll results, tbh. Kinda convenient that they probably made some non-Tories feel complacent.


----------



## killer b (May 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> UKIP 3.5m votes: 1 seat
> SNP 1.5m votes: 56 seats
> 
> ?


yes. the SNP were standing in a much smaller area. Are you really this thick?


----------



## kabbes (May 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> UKIP 3.5m votes: 1 seat
> SNP 1.5m votes: 56 seats
> 
> ?


Yes, because only one constituency wanted to be represented by a UKIP tossbag.  Not that hard to understand.


----------



## mack (May 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Super powerful right-wing backbenchers can cause havoc.



Just thinking now that there could be a defection or two from the tory extreme right - with 3.5 million UKIP votes cast this time around the defectors would feel pretty safe?


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> UKIP 3.5m votes: 1 seat
> SNP 1.5m votes: 56 seats
> 
> ?



That is a pretty striking fact. Their will be calls for PR from left and right now. FPTP is not fit for purpose.


----------



## scifisam (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Well firstly it's worth noting that despite it being a fantastic night for them in terms of seats, there are probably aren't that many more people voting for them in 2015 than 2010, roughly 28% of the electorate. It's looking like they've lost a considerable number of voters to UKIP, though they've made those numbers up from the LDs.
> 
> But for all their cuntiness I didn't see them coming out with the same chest-prodding that Labour did (_and are still doing!)_ to their Scottish voters. The Tories played the self-interest card to the liberals and it worked.



But there are still more people voting for them and that's _after_ them fucking the country over so they should have lost votes, not gained them. Farage completely talks down to people, too, but for some reason they fall for it. I mean, acting like a man of the people while being a public school stockbroker, and telling people it's all the immigrants' fault? That's talking down to the people.

Scotland is a separate issue, in a way; if Labour had lost every single seat in Scotland (and they did come close!) they could still have won had they done better in England the way the polls predicted. 

The thing is, in England they didn't actually talk down to people that much. Perhaps that was their mistake.


----------



## jusali (May 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> UKIP 3.5m votes: 1 seat
> SNP 1.5m votes: 56 seats
> 
> ?



Have you a Source for this?


----------



## ska invita (May 8, 2015)




----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2015)

jusali said:


> Have you a Source for this?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results


----------



## Dovydaitis (May 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Yes, by a massive margin.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000983


Arse


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> That is a pretty striking fact. Their will be calls for PR from left and right now. FPTP is not fit for purpose.


Calls from parties with no power.


----------



## jusali (May 8, 2015)

emanymton said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results


Thanks You!
Wow Greens did good too!


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2015)

My city has 3 seats, traditionally labour. Labour held all 3. UKIP got 21%, 22%, and 25%. No idea what the council is going to look like later today.

Curious times.

Interesting to see quite candid talk about PR during the BBC's coverage. Whether that'll continue once they realise people other than politics nerds are watching is another matter. It depends if anyone other than UKIP talk about it. It doesn't exactly behoove the SNP to bang on about it, since its introduction would presumably eat into their gains. I'm not sure the LibDems have much of a platform to be talking about anything right now, and Labour will be too focused on a leadership battle, and the only way it'll be a consideration for them is if a viable candidate comes forward who talks about that, which isn't likely.


----------



## doddles (May 8, 2015)

approx. 65% of English voters voting for Tory, UKIP or LD. That is just a very depressing thing.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Calls from parties with no power.



But it further deligitamises the political system - and UKIP will keep the issue on the agenda. The tories aren't going to bring it in - but labour may adopt it as a policy. If they still have a meaningful existence after this debacle.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 8, 2015)

wokingham has gone from being a safe tory seat with the limp dems in a moderately distant second (never that serious a contender for the westminster seat, but at the absolute depth of tory fortunes in the 90s they managed to get the district council on minority administration and mayor's casting vote) to an even safer tory seat with labour in distant second and the limp dems in slightly more distant third

at least no "it's a two horse race" crap from them in 2020...


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

doddles said:


> approx. 65% of English voters voting for Tory, UKIP or LD. That is just a very depressing thing.


There's a reason why it's called the cuntryside


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> But it further deligitamises the political system - and UKIP will keep the issue on the agenda. The tories aren't going to bring it in - but labour may adopt it as a policy. If they still have a meaningful existence after this debacle.


They won't.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

doddles said:


> Why? Have you thought about people who don't necessarily owe their allegiance to the UK? Citizens of other countries, people married to people from other countries, people who feel a stronger bond with, e.g. Europe than they do with the UK? There's all sorts of reasons why this election result might be the tipping point for someone to want to leave, without their only reason being one of selfishness.


These particular people are the sort who will fuck off to places like Thailand


----------



## ffsear (May 8, 2015)

Farage up Next


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

30!


----------



## doddles (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> These particular people are the sort who will fuck off to places like Thailand


Yes. All of them. Sure.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

bye!


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

small crumb of amused comfort


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> These particular people are the sort who will fuck off to places like Thailand


Ah yes, the well known socialist paradise.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (May 8, 2015)




----------



## Geri (May 8, 2015)

Come on, announce it!


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

scifisam said:


> But there are still more people voting for them and that's _after_ them fucking the country over so they should have lost votes, not gained them. Farage completely talks down to people, too, but for some reason they fall for it. I mean, acting like a man of the people while being a public school stockbroker, and telling people it's all the immigrants' fault? That's talking down to the people.
> 
> Scotland is a separate issue, in a way; if Labour had lost every single seat in Scotland (and they did come close!) they could still have won had they done better in England the way the polls predicted.
> 
> The thing is, in England they didn't actually talk down to people that much. Perhaps that was their mistake.


Christ, you have this much contempt for of your fellow men and women and then you wonder why people aren't voting the "right" way. 

Sorry but have a look at yourself. And if you think Labour didn't hold it's E&W voters for granted then I don't know what planet you are living on.


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

Nige loses to the former dep. leader of UKIP - now Tory


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

fucking sweet


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

doddles said:


> Yes. All of them. Sure.


Yes, the people who I have encountered on my timelones are all just that sort. Selfish twits who fail to appreciate the irony of their proclamations.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Farage fails.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Ah yes, the well known socialist paradise.


Exactly, wankers.


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

A couple of silver linings then


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2015)

Breaking News
Posted at10:35Breaking


Nigel Farage fails to win Thanet South for UKIP.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Carswell will have to whip himself


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

Farage's face is a picture - looks humiliated


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2015)

Conservative
(CON)
, with candidate Craig Mackinlay
, have the following results:

18,848 total votes taken.
38.1% share of the total vote
-9.8% change in share of the votes
UKIP
(UKIP)
, with candidate Nigel Farage
, have the following results:

16,026 total votes taken.
32.4% share of the total vote
+26.9% change in share of the votes
Labour
(LAB)
, with candidate Will Scobie
, have the following results:

11,740 total votes taken.
23.8% share of the total vote
-7.6% change in share of the votes
Green Party
(GRN)
, with candidate Ian Driver
, have the following results:

1,076 total votes taken.
2.2% share of the total vote
+2.2% change in share of the votes
Liberal Democrat
(LD)
, with candidate Russell Timpson
, have the following results:

932 total votes taken.
1.9% share of the total vote
-13.2% change in share of the votes
Free United Kingdom Party
(FREE)
, with candidate Al Murray
, have the following results:

318 total votes taken.
0.6% share of the total vote
+0.6% change in share of the votes
Manston Airport Independent Party
(MAIP)
, with candidate Ruth Bailey
, have the following results:

191 total votes taken.
0.4% share of the total vote
+0.4% change in share of the votes
We Are The Reality Party
(WARP)
, with candidate Nigel Askew
, have the following results:

126 total votes taken.
0.3% share of the total vote
+0.3% change in share of the votes
Party for a United Thanet
(PUT)
, with candidate Grahame Birchall
, have the following results:

63 total votes taken.
0.1% share of the total vote
+0.1% change in share of the votes
Independent
(IND)
, with candidate Dean McCastree
, have the following results:

61 total votes taken.
0.1% share of the total vote
+0.1% change in share of the votes
Al-Zebabist Nation of Ooog
(AZNO)
, with candidate Zebadiah Abu-Obadiah
, have the following results:

30 total votes taken.
0.1% share of the total vote
+0.1


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> These particular people are the sort who will fuck off to places like Thailand


places like thailand. but not thailand. hmm.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Paulie said:


> Farage's face is a picture - looks humiliated


oh glorious day


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> places like thailand. but not thailand. hmm.


:rollleyes: my meaning was clear.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> oh glorious day


but UKIP have got what they want


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)




----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 8, 2015)

lib dems finishing fifth in much of south london


----------



## doddles (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Yes, the people who I have encountered on my timelones are all just that sort. Selfish twits who fail to appreciate the irony of their proclamations.


Anecdote. Here's mine. I know a number of people who are likely, in the next year or two, to move to Europe. Some because they have family there. Some because they are very pro-European and social democrats. Some because they simply want to live in a place where they think their vote might actually contribute to better public services. And some because they are afraid of being caught in a rush if they wait until an EU referendum. All legitimate reasons, in my opinion.

Not doubting there are people like you describe. But there are others who will leave.


----------



## crossthebreeze (May 8, 2015)

> The problem is, that even amongst Labour voters, there's a large number who would position the party further right than they are, who have no real desire to tackle the fundamental problems faced by society (such as unsustainable economic policy, pandering to multinationals and banks, signing up to things like the TTIP, PPIs, etc. etc.). So if you lump them in with the Tory, UKIP and LibDem voters, you're probably looking at about 75% of the English population who would collectively vote either for the status quo or a move further to the right. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to them, "you reap what you sow".



Low voter turnout though (and spoilt ballot papers counted in turnout figures)... so at least 2/3 of the country aren't active supporters of _any_ of the shit options that are laid out for us.  I'm taking solace out of the fact that less than 1/4 of the electorate actually voted Tory (though if you add in UKIP and Lib Dems this rises to over 1/3 - the increase in the UKIP vote is actually quite worrying, though glad that hasn't translated into a rise in actual seats).


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

On what fucking grounds is Farage being allowed to speak? Or does everyone who stood get a chance, and we only get shown the 'big names'.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> :rollleyes: my meaning was clear.


what, that people who go to thailand are sex criminals i suppose.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

doddles said:


> Anecdote. Here's mine. I know a number of people who are likely, in the next year or two, to move to Europe. Some because they have family there. Some because they are very pro-European and social democrats. Some because they simply want to live in a place where they think their vote might actually contribute to better public services. And some because they are afraid of being caught in a rush if they wait until an EU referendum. All legitimate reasons, in my opinion.
> 
> Not doubting there are people like you describe. But there are others who will leave.


Sure, but they're not the people I was talking about. These people are just people who want somewhere to sun themselves cheaply whilst getting wankered.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> On what fucking grounds is Farage being allowed to speak? Or does everyone who standed get a chance, and we only get shown the 'big names'.


because no one will ever hear from him again. btw it's 'stood' not 'standed'.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what, that people who go to thailand are sex criminals i suppose.


Bore off


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

Ha, and then he runs off stage!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Sure, but they're not the people I was talking about. These people are just people who want somewhere to sun themselves cheaply whilst getting wankered.


wankered? or wanked?


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

Even a Farage loss is because of a Tory win.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> because no one will ever hear from him again. btw it's 'stood' not 'standed'.


Christ, you're right.

I'm tired and emotional


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Sure, but they're not the people I was talking about. These people are just people who want somewhere to sun themselves cheaply whilst getting wankered.


you say it like it's a bad thing.


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> On what fucking grounds is Farage being allowed to speak? Or does everyone who standed get a chance, and we only get shown the 'big names'.


Everyone gets to speak (winner first) but they only show the big names.


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2015)

Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol have the following results:

Cannabis

0 seats in total.
0 seats gained.
0 seats lost.
0 net change in seats.
8,419 total votes taken.
0.0% share of the total vote
0.0%


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol have the following results:
> 
> Cannabis
> 
> ...


they'd have had more if their supporters had been arsed to get off the sofa.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

yardbird said:


> Labour with David Miliband instead of Ed would have done much better.
> Public image = votes.
> Fickle public.



Labour with David Miliband would have been 5 years of neo-Bliarism with Miliband. D basically having filled all the shadow positions with Progress members. If that's better, I'm a monkey's uncle. You *don't* beat the enemy by becoming the enemy.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Bore off


such a pity you repeatedly show yourself unable to defend your claims.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol have the following results:
> 
> Cannabis
> 
> ...



They obviously underestimated the popularity of alcohol.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> because no one will ever hear from him again.



I doubt we'll be that lucky.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> I doubt we'll be that lucky.


he's going to start a second career as a professional sorrow-drowner.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

doddles said:


> Anecdote. Here's mine. I know a number of people who are likely, in the next year or two, to move to Europe. Some because they have family there. Some because they are very pro-European and social democrats.


So they'll move to France where the FN are on the march? Or go to Germany where I guess the "social democrats" are a least in government with Merkel. Or to the fabled paradise of Scandinavia where the Labour parties brothers in arms are busy attacking the welfare state there?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you say it like it's a bad thing.


It isn't if you're honest about it, rather than saying you are leaving cos the Tories hate the poor or whatever


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> such a pity you repeatedly show yourself unable to defend your claims.


Just not interested in your game


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> he's going to start a second career as a professional sorrow-drowner.


Remember "_*Indoor League*_"?



tbf he'd be ideal for a new series...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Just not interested in your game


Since the Vietnam War, Thailand has gained international notoriety among travellers from many countries as a sex tourism destination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Farage is still a EU MP.


----------



## Paulie (May 8, 2015)

Nige just gets to carry on as a MEP, doesn't he?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> Since the Vietnam War, Thailand has gained international notoriety among travellers from many countries as a sex tourism destination.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand


Thanks for that.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Thanks for that.


you're welcome


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

check out Alex Salmond here

https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10152912653931939/?fref=nf 

Why won't FB vids embed anymore?


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Vermin at 323 now.

Get down the hospital quick if you feel you might have anything wrong with you...


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Fuck
> 
> Wtf just happened?



First Past The Post is what happened (although the result would have been similar with the version of PR the Lib-Dims and articul8 tried to flog us a few years ago).


----------



## doddles (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> So they'll move to France where the FN are on the march? Or go to Germany where I guess the "social democrats" are a least in government with Merkel. Or to the fabled paradise of Scandinavia where the Labour parties brothers in arms are busy attacking the welfare state there?


Germany and Scandinavia mainly. And while it might be true that welfare and public services are under attack there, i) they're starting from a much better position, ii) they have viable political parties that are committed to defending social services and iii) they have voting systems that actually give them a bit of a say in how things are done. No perfect, far from perfect. But a more optimistic situation than one in which 65% of voters are voting for right wing parties.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Well, it's started. I've just heard a snatch of racist (anti-English) abuse through the window. Carried on the wind, not aimed at me. I can't tell if it came from the Grammar School.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> in the morning it will.be exit stage right for miliband


i called it right


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Well, it's started. I've just heard a snatch of racist (anti-English) abuse through the window. Carried on the wind, not aimed at me. I can't tell if it came from the Grammar School.


details pls


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> So we have to look forward to getting hunting back, more shot badgers, an eviscerated BBC, more free schools, tax cuts at the top, Branson running the hospitals, concealment of past tory noncery until the perpetrators have died off and a mass sell-off of social housing?  How do we put a stick in these spokes?



We use every legal means at our disposal, and most of the illegal means, too.
You can bet that the "no watercannon" rule will be reversed long before Crimbo 2015, too. The Tories will know that some people won't sit still for another 5 years of "the death of a thousand cu(n)ts".


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Well, it's started. I've just heard a snatch of racist (anti-English) abuse through the window. Carried on the wind, not aimed at me. I can't tell if it came from the Grammar School.



First they came for the quartzes, and I did not speak out, because he is a nobber


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> First they came for the quartzes, and I did not speak out, because he is a nobber


knobber

nobber is a village in co. meath.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> There are people saying they are leaving the country now. Twats.



Cowards.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> There are people saying they are leaving the country now. Twats.


They'll not be non-doms


----------



## Thunderfist (May 8, 2015)

How much was the majority in the end? Wafer thin in any case. Watch the Tory party tear itself to pieces over Europe as the backbenchers get an opportunity to act up. Remember Major's ailing administration 92-97? He was propped up by the Ulster Unionists at the end - but that's where Cameron is starting from.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> How much was the majority in the end? Wafer thin in any case. Watch the Tory party tear itself to pieces over Europe as the backbenchers get an opportunity to act up. Remember Major's ailing administration 92-97? He was propped up by the Ulster Unionists at the end - but that's where Cameron is starting from.


you do know not all seats have declared yet


----------



## Libertad (May 8, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> How much was the majority in the end? Wafer thin in any case. Watch the Tory party tear itself to pieces over Europe as the backbenchers get an opportunity to act up. Remember Major's ailing administration 92-97? He was propped up by the Ulster Unionists at the end - but that's where Cameron is starting from.



Sound reasoning there, that's cheered me up a bit but not much.


----------



## crossthebreeze (May 8, 2015)

Tories just reached 323 seats, the figure for a "just about" majority, they only need to win another 3 out of the 12 seats left to declare to win a majority proper.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 8, 2015)

Twelve left to go? Meaning a maximum Tory majority of 9?


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

I'm mildly astonished - if such as thing is possible - that Clegg hasn't stepped down. He was evens to go first, wasn't he? And Milliband will be, from odds of what, 3 or 4 to 1?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

doddles said:


> You're absolutely right, of course - those people deserve solidarity, not anger (except those from the groups above who voted Tory or UKIP - and there would a few).
> 
> The problem is, that even amongst Labour voters, there's a large number who would position the party further right than they are, who have no real desire to tackle the fundamental problems faced by society (such as unsustainable economic policy, pandering to multinationals and banks, signing up to things like the TTIP, PPIs, etc. etc.). So if you lump them in with the Tory, UKIP and LibDem voters, you're probably looking at about 75% of the English population who would collectively vote either for the status quo or a move further to the right. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to them, "you reap what you sow".



The problem isn't the electorate, it's that the major parties don't represent options far enough dispersed on the political spectrum to offer the electorate a clear choice, and that an FPTP system means that one of two major parties who are politically incredibly-similar, whether in coalition with the third or not, will always win.
An added problem (and a reason why Labour continued to shed members post-Blair 'n' Brown) is that the two biggest parties also gutted their various internal practices to pretty much remove democracy and the right to amend party policy from the membership. Even their own members can't hold them to account, let alone the electorate.

So, what have the electorate got? The choice between a shit sandwich garnished with watercress, and a shit sandwich garnished with mustard and cress, that's what.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

S☼I said:


> I'm mildly astonished - if such as thing is possible - that Clegg hasn't stepped down. He was evens to go first, wasn't he? And Milliband will be, from odds of what, 3 or 4 to 1?


tbf probably taking some time to edit his phone contacts list


----------



## Libertad (May 8, 2015)

I may have to take it upon myself to reduce the vermin's majority one by one. Where to begin?


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

bemused said:


> Yep, she'd be a decent leader




Cooper as employment secretary was responsible for the 'invisible wheelchair' question on ESA, if you could propel it you failed.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

beareis said:


> We are doomed. Goodbye NHS.



We're only doomed if we sit back and do nothing.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Libertad said:


> I may have to take it upon myself to reduce the vermin's majority one by one. Where to begin?


charity begins at home


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

bemused said:


> Just from my perception I think one of the real issues both the Tories and Labour had was the they run such a managed sterile campaign you essentially ended up with Dave and Ed plastic action figures running our set piece slogans. Neither of them were authentic, Davy some just slightly more personable.
> 
> They need someone who comes across as an human being and a lot less managed.



Andy Burnham?


----------



## Thunderfist (May 8, 2015)

If I was to put a relentlessly optimistic hat on (it doesn't get out of the wardrobe much) then we're actually in a better position than 2010. Cameron can just about command a majority - but he has absolutley no allies, no one in the centre ground, no Lib Dem fall guys. Where voters were actually offered an anti-austerity alternative they nearly broke the swingometer. Labour will be forced to seriously re-think from the bottom up.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Farage has gone...for a bit...apparently?

Fucking joke.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Libertad said:


> I may have to take it upon myself to reduce the vermin's majority one by one. Where to begin?


Clegg


----------



## Libertad (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> charity begins at home



No vermin here, our terrier's seen them off.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> That is a pretty striking fact. Their will be calls for PR from left and right now. FPTP is not fit for purpose.



We both know it hasn't been fit for purpose arguably since the formation of the SDP,but frankly the shoddy version of PR that was peddled to us early on in the coalition wasn't worth a drop of maggot piss either.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Too true, I'm not going to shed any tears over the pricks. They're already lurching even more to the right - see scum like Picarda on the other thread, Hodges etc.
> 
> Fuck them, this isn't the fault of people for not voting for them (how dare those Scots desert us!), it's _*their fault*_ for taking w/c voters for granted for x number of years, for arguing that they'll be tougher on benefits than the tories, for having their only line be "well at least you're not the tories" while still arguing for austerity.
> 
> ...




But sadly a lot of potential labour voters ssem to like Govts getting tough on benefits, though some of this is the massive amount of misinformation and smears, that awful programme, Benefits St starts again right on queue on Monday, and the hate will begin all over again, watch all the parties will be all over it.


----------



## Dr. Furface (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> Even a Farage loss is because of a Tory win.


Yes because UKIP have had a big negative effect on Labour's vote, depite the fact they're a right wing party. With this result and Farage standing down - we hope - UKIP will find it difficult to keep up the momentum they've built during this campaign and probably won't be much of a force in future. They'll make a lot of noise about the EU referendum, which Cameron has promised, but after that they may well fade away.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Calls from parties with no power.



The problem being (as ever) that for the main parties, there's no percentage for them in PR, right up until the electorate is so diffuse that PR becomes advantageous.


----------



## crossthebreeze (May 8, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Twelve left to go? Meaning a maximum Tory majority of 9?


Yes, 9 is the maximum possible majority, hopefully they won't get that


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

HahahahahahahahahahahafuckoffyouracistscumbagHahahahahahahahahahahafuckoffyouracistscumbagHahahahahahahahahahahafuckoffyouracistscumbag


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

Clegg just resigned.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> View attachment 71255
> 
> HahahahahahahahahahahafuckoffyouracistscumbagHahahahahahahahahahahafuckoffyouracistscumbagHahahahahahahahahahahafuckoffyouracistscumbag



yes and rape apologist galloway off to spend more time working for russian and iranian news outlets.

every cloud


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

doddles said:


> Why? Have you thought about people who don't necessarily owe their allegiance to the UK? Citizens of other countries, people married to people from other countries, people who feel a stronger bond with, e.g. Europe than they do with the UK? There's all sorts of reasons why this election result might be the tipping point for someone to want to leave, without their only reason being one of selfishness.




not many lands of milk and honey in the EU at the moment.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Clegg just resigned.


LOL off to cry along to Dire Strait 'Love Over Gold' album.

the fucking shite. He should be in a cell


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> First Past The Post is what happened (although the result would have been similar with the version of PR the Lib-Dims and articul8 tried to flog us a few years ago).



Some rough (literally back of an envelope with the results to date) calculations for England, Scotland and Wales if seats were allocated proportionately in each nation (the bracketed figures are for England, Scotland and Wales respectively):

Con - 236 (219, 8, 11)
Lab - 199 (170,14, 15)
UKIP - 83 (77, 1, 5)
LD - 50 (43, 4, 3)
SNP - 28 (0, 28, 0)
Green - 24 (22, 1, 1)
PC - 5 (0, 0, 5)

I will up date this when all the results are in and include the actual allocation of seats.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Depressing as fuck.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> First Past The Post is what happened (although the result would have been similar with the version of PR the Lib-Dims and articul8 tried to flog us a few years ago).



Av was a poor compromise which nobody really wanted, but if we'd had it at this election we'd probably still have had a tory government but it would have had more legitimacy so far as percentage of votes cast than the we've just got with fptp (only 36.8%) and more importantly, the issue of electoral reform would still be an issue. As it is, it won't be an issue again for at least a generation.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

That clegg coward runs away from the mess be has made of his party. They lost deposits in over half the seats. From losing none. And he just walks away.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (May 8, 2015)

Good timing... the Radical Book Fair is on in London tomorrow: https://londonradicalbookfair.wordpress.com/


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> That clegg coward runs away from the mess be has made of his party. They lost deposits in over half the seats. From losing none. And he just walks away.



But at least he got a go in the ministerial limo.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

Please don't tell me you are surprised BA


----------



## Divisive Cotton (May 8, 2015)

So Nigel Farage loses to a former-UKIP Tory...

So it's a victory then!! In the smallest way imaginable...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> That clegg coward runs away from the mess be has made of his party. They lost deposits in over half the seats. From losing none. And he just walks away.



That's what spineless neolibs do innit?


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 8, 2015)

[Fuckin awfullover, post: 13881806, member: 334"]But sadly a lot of potential labour voters ssem to like Govts getting tough on benefits, though some of this is the massive amount of misinformation and smears, that awful programme, Benefits St starts again right on queue on Monday, and the hate will begin all over again, watch all the parties will be all over it.[/QUOTE].  


 Dog whistle politics. Fuckin awful scapegoating - who was it talked about needing to dehumanise your enemies first  in order to get the hate ramped up?


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Please don't tell me you are surprised BA


Not at all, just pre-empting the inevitable quartz comment on what an honourable man this is.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> That's what spineless neolibs do innit?


Not quite. When they fail...they walk away..... into another state-subsidised role.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 8, 2015)

Might have missed this but how did Class War do?


----------



## Lurdan (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> yes and rape apologist galloway off to spend more time working for russian and iranian news outlets.
> 
> every cloud


I thought he said he'd try his luck at the election for Tower Hamlets Mayor although when he said that there was some questioning of his current eligibility.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 8, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Might have missed this but how did Class War do?



A total of 526 votes according the BBC.


----------



## jusali (May 8, 2015)

class war 526 votes


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Divisive Cotton said:


> Good timing... the Radical Book Fair is on in London tomorrow: https://londonradicalbookfair.wordpress.com/



Intersectionalism dominating?


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Remember resident urban fuckwit Bonathon Jishop? 
He polled a MASSIVE 23 votes!



> Walton also saw the candidate who polled the smallest number of votes in Liverpool on May 7. Jonathan Dzon, of the Pluralist Party, won the backing of 23 people while Independent Alexander Karran received 56 votes.
> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-general-election-2015-results-9211152


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Clegg just resigned.


this post....it needs more likes


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Not at all, just pre-empting the inevitable quartz comment on what an honourable man this is.


Did you see the vomit inducing Ashdown tribute to Clegg early this morning? Christ I say vomit inducing but that barely  scratches the surface, oh god.


----------



## JimW (May 8, 2015)

Fell asleep before the Stroud declaration, grim. If Carmichael can get in any twat can


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Did you see the vomit inducing Ashdown tribute to Clegg early this morning? Christ I say vomit inducing but that early scratches the surface, oh god.


Glad,  for once, to say i was working then.


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> View attachment 71255
> 
> HahahahahahahahahahahafuckoffyouracistscumbagHahahahahahahahahahahafuckoffyouracistscumbagHahahahahahahahahahahafuckoffyouracistscumbag



He's gone but more people have voted for them than ever before. Hardly amusing.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Clegg just resigned.


this post requires more likes


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 8, 2015)

jusali said:


> class war 526 votes



So pretty much just class war members and their mums then.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Glad,  for once, to say i was working then.


Thankfully the BBC doesn't seem to have kept it. Maybe even they couldn't stomach it.


----------



## JHE (May 8, 2015)

jusali said:


> class war 526 votes



They stood seven candidates, so that's an average of 75 votes per constituency.

Maybe the problem is that anarchists just don't vote.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 8, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Might have missed this but how did Class War do?



It was never about numbers, but here are the numbers, for posterity:

Adam Clifford (Cities of London and Westminster) 59
Lisa McKenzie (Chingford and Woodford Green) 53
Joe Wilcox (Maidenhead) 55
Andy Bennetts (Lichfield) 120
Dave Perkins (Sherwood) 78
David Peel (Norwich South) 96*
Jon Bigger (Croydon South) 65

*the only candidate not to come last.


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> So pretty much just class war members and their mums then.



More like the candidates' friends and family.


----------



## LDC (May 8, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It was never about numbers, but here are the numbers, for posterity:
> 
> Adam Clifford (Cities of London and Westminster) 59
> Lisa McKenzie (Chingford and Woodford Green) 53
> ...


What happened to the nightmare of Marina Pepper? Did she end up not standing in the end?


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> He's gone but more people have voted for them than ever before. Hardly amusing.


I think it's up to me what I find amusing thanks. If he got in it would have been a fucking disaster, but now he has to stand down as leader. And without him, they are nothing.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Thankfully the BBC doesn't seem to have kept it. Maybe even they couldn't stomach it.


The rat hasn't ruled himself out of running for the leadership btw


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Jesus fucking christ, look how much my town LOVES Philip Hollobone:

*Results*

VOTES
SHARE %
+ / - %
Conservative
, with candidatePhilip Hollobone
, have the following results:

24,467total votes taken.
51.8% share of the total vote
+2.7% change in share of the votes
Labour
, with candidateRhea Keehn
, have the following results:

11,877total votes taken.
25.2% share of the total vote
-4.8% change in share of the votes
UKIP
, with candidateJonathan Bullock
, have the following results:

7,600total votes taken.
16.1% share of the total vote
+16.1% change in share of the votes
Green Party
, with candidateRob Reeves
, have the following results:

1,633total votes taken.
3.5% share of the total vote
+3.5% change in share of the votes
Liberal Democrat
, with candidateChris McGlynn
, have the following results:

1,490total votes taken.
3.2% share of the total vote
-12.7% change in share of the votes
English Democrats
, with candidateDerek Hilling
, have the following results:

151total votes taken.
0.3% share of the total vote
-1.7% change in share of the votes




still at least the eng dems didn't get many


but hollobone on double the labour womans vote? the man is an unshakable titan of tory racist bellend


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 8, 2015)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> What happened to the nightmare of Marina Pepper? Did she end up not standing in the end?



I don't know (I'm not involved - just got those numbers off the BBC site) but there were a lot of announcements of people who were going to stand who didn't in the end.


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

There is a collection of tweets from musicians on the NME's site

a sample:

Tim Burgess 

✔@Tim_Burgess
The Tories are like one of those shit bands that nobody actually admits to liking, but they always seem to be in the charts : /

9:41 AM - 8 May 2015


----------



## Sparkle Motion (May 8, 2015)

JHE said:


> They stood seven candidates, so that's an average of 75 votes per constituency.
> 
> Maybe the problem is that anarchists just don't vote.


The problem is people don't vote for anarchists or anarchism. Not because they are stupid or brainwashed, but because they don't want to. What should anarchists do to overcome their total irrelevance to the overwhelming majority of people?


----------



## JHE (May 8, 2015)

Sparkle Motion said:


> What should anarchists do to overcome their total irrelevance to the overwhelming majority of people?



What would you recommend?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> And without him, they are nothing.


I'm sorry but that simply flies in the face of all the evidence, they've achieved in gaining nearly 13% of the popular vote. It's true that's not been translated into seats and that it's possible that for a variety of reasons they _might_ struggle in the aftermath of this election, but to write off the third party of Britain like that is just ignorant. 

Moreover it shows a total lack of understanding of the motivations of people voting for UKIP. Whatever else they might be the fact is that they strike a chord with plenty of people who for whatever reason feel left behind/out of place in the Britain of 2015.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

and........he's gone.


----------



## LDC (May 8, 2015)

Take itself seriously... give up on the ridiculous fetish of jumping from single issue reformist campaign to campaign and the obsession with activism like a less effective NGO. Turn it's back on the lifestyle choices and moralism that predominates. Start building social power and the ability to provide resources and the needs of people and the power to protect them from reactionary forces.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)




----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 8, 2015)

Toodle pip Willybandage.


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> If he got in it would have been a fucking disaster, but now he has to stand down as leader. And without him, they are nothing.



What the fuck are you on about? They'll replace him, probably with someone less obviously wanky.

3.5 million people have just voted for them but they're "nothing" without Farage? 

Do us a favour.


----------



## Santino (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> but to write off the third party of Britain like that is just ignorant.


When was the last time a third place party saw its support vanish between one general election and the next? You probably have to go back, ooh, hours.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Typical: Miliband's resignation takes effect after one last jolly.


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

Milliband resigned.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Typical: his resignation takes effect after one last jolly.


jesus


----------



## Dan U (May 8, 2015)

Best resignation speech of the day so far.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Typical: his resignation takes effect after one last jolly.



Fucking hell, you are such a stupid cunt.


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2015)

Dan U said:


> Best resignation speech of the day so far.



Straying into sermon territory at the end.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Just playing with the results map on the Graun website.  One of the things you can display is in which constituency different parties have gained support.  Labour, the Tories and the Kippers are showing gains scattered across much of the country - and noticeably big gains in the case of the Kippers - the Greens across a swathe of the south and a fair few places further north, Plaid Cwmru in much of Wales, the SNP (obviously) all across Scotland and the Lib Dems ... nowhere.  Absolutely nowhere.  In not a single constituency did they increase their share of the vote over 2010.

I assumed that the Lib Dems were buggered because the bulk of their support came from the centre-left and would defect to Labour or the Greens, which they have up to a point, but a fair number of their ex-voters - more than I expected - seem to have jumped into the Tory camp, presumably because if you're going to vote for a Tory party you might as well vote for the original and worst.

*edit*  Greens, not Greenwich: that's what three hours' sleep does for my typing.


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Fucking hell, you are such a stupid cunt.



Really? Is it not factually correct? Miliband's resignation takes effect after the VE Day celebrations.


----------



## Dan U (May 8, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Straying into sermon territory at the end.



yeah it did a bit.

at least he didn't look on the verge of a nervous breakdown like Clegg or quit and then say he might come back like Farage.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Really? Is it not factually correct? Miliband's resignation takes effect after the VE Day celebrations.



Yes, the VE commemoration is a fucking "jolly". Twat.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Really? Is it not factually correct? Miliband's resignation takes effect after the VE Day celebrations.



Oh piss off you dozy twat.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> What the fuck are you on about? They'll replace him, probably with someone less obviously wanky.
> 
> 3.5 million people have just voted for them but they're "nothing" without Farage?
> 
> Do us a favour.


Name me three high-profile UKIP candidates that are instantly recognisable to the general public. Go on.


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

Strapline in the Graun, I don't know whether to laugh or cry

Nick Clegg – the inoffensive ordinary guy who could have been great


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Santino said:


> When was the last time a third place party saw its support vanish between one general election and the next? You probably have to go back, ooh, hours.


Hahaha.


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Strapline in the Graun, I don't know whether to laugh or cry
> 
> Nick Clegg – the inoffensive ordinary guy who could have been great



What world do they live in?



> One thing about Clegg is his appearance of supreme, inoffensive ordinariness that belies his family’s exotic origins, the Russian and Dutch antecedents and even his Spanish wife. He could be the headmaster of a successful prep school, perhaps, or a model in a Boden catalogue, the kind of person who would be comfortable to chat to at the school gate.


----------



## Santino (May 8, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Strapline in the Graun, I don't know whether to laugh or cry
> Nick Clegg – the inoffensive ordinary guy who could have been great


Just when you think you've seen humanity at its lowest ebb...


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

or vomit, actually


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Strapline in the Graun, I don't know whether to laugh or cry
> 
> Nick Clegg – the inoffensive ordinary guy who could have been great


Good to see someone identifying and standing up for the real victim here.  Note clegg also doing the same in his resignation, calling the disgust the electorate showed him and his party as.... unkind.


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Name me three high-profile UKIP candidates that are instantly recognisable to the general public. Go on.



Well his deputy is Paul Nuttal but that's not the point. You had never heard of Farage before he founded UKIP had you?

The fact is that UKIP have made huge voting gains and anyone who dismisses them as 'nothing without Farage', is an idiot.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 8, 2015)

Clegg will take the long walk into exile taken by failed politicians. He will pop up in some EU position in a years time with only £200k pa  + expenses to console himself.


The worthless fuck


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

That'll be about the size of it


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Belushi said:


> What world do they live in?


whatever world it is, we must burn it


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Name me three high-profile UKIP candidates that are instantly recognisable to the general public. Go on.



Had you heard of Farage before he became leader in 2006?


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> whatever world it is, we must burn it



bonfires made of boden catalogues


----------



## Fez909 (May 8, 2015)

Lib Dem lost deposits: £169,000


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

Milliband giving it large about Labour being the party for social justice - what transparent bollocks. I've still got the poxy HoC headed notepaper with Fitzpatrick refusing to do anything about IDS's retrospective workfare legislation.

I can't think of a single noteworthy thing that Milliband has done. I'll remember his tenure as being a bland 5 years of doing nothing. He didn't even get round to the policies review he promised.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Name me three high-profile UKIP candidates that are instantly recognisable to the general public. Go on.


So?  Most people have a hard time recognising members of the cabinet and shadow cabinet. How many people would have recognised Sturgeon before the Indy Ref?

UKIP will face challenges in the coming months, the leadership is going to have to try and keep people on board after only limited electoral success and with the Tories better placed to fight them. They need to thread a path by which they can keep both sides of the party on side. But 3.8 million people didn't vote for them just because of Farage.

EDIT: And even if UKIP collapse, those voters won't just vanish into thin air, they and their concerns will still be here


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2015)

Carsee is pretty recognisable, and isn't a bad speaker tbf. Has come across well whenever I've seen him on TV


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 8, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> So pretty much just class war members and their mums then.



And nannies.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

I just hope this government can sort out the mess left by the Coalition


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Well his deputy is Paul Nuttal but that's not the point. You had never heard of Farage before he became the leader of UKIP had you?
> 
> The fact is that UKIP have made huge voting gains and anyone who dismisses them as 'nothing without Farage', is an idiot.


Who the fuck is he? I've no idea who he is, what he looks like or what his beliefs are. 

Farage was the face of UKIP. He was the person who people identified with, and as US-style personality politics takes over the UK politics, he was hugely responsible for making the party more attractive to voters and something that people could identify with. 

Put in the UKIP fuckwits that are usually seen babbling incoherently in front of the cameras and they become a lot less attractive to voters. Maybe they'll find someone with enough charm to continue their shitty mission, but anyone who underestimates the influence a charismatic leader can have on a party, truly is an idiot.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> Carsee is pretty recognisable, and isn't a bad speaker tbf. Has come across well whenever I've seen him on TV


He's got to be the front-runner surely. IMO his problem will be the "northern", urban section of the party, will he be able to appeal to them? Or will he just be a ex-Tory?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Well his deputy is Paul Nuttal but that's not the point. You had never heard of Farage before he founded UKIP had you?
> 
> The fact is that UKIP have made huge voting gains and anyone who dismisses them as 'nothing without Farage', is an idiot.


alan sked founded ukip


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

maybe Hamilton will rise from obscurity and strike down the falange


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> Milliband giving it large about Labour being the party for social justice - what transparent bollocks. I've still got the poxy HoC headed notepaper with Fitzpatrick refusing to do anything about IDS's retrospective workfare legislation.
> 
> I can't think of a single noteworthy thing that Milliband has done. I'll remember his tenure as being a bland 5 years of doing nothing. He didn't even get round to the policies review he promised.


he's resigned cesare, that's pretty memorable


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

or kilroy-silk


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> maybe Hamilton will rise from obscurity and strike down the falange


by obscurity do you mean drunken stupor?


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> or kilroy-silk



wheres that picture?!


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Hell if we want to do unknown leaders how many people could have picked Blair out of a line up before John Smith croaked it.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Well his deputy is Paul Nuttal but that's not the point. You had never heard of Farage before he founded UKIP had you?
> 
> The fact is that UKIP have made huge voting gains and anyone who dismisses them as 'nothing without Farage', is an idiot.



That's Nuttall, not Nuttal.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> or kilroy-silk


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Hell if we want to do unknown leaders how many people could have picked Blair out of a line up before John Smith croaked it.


i could have


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2015)




----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> If he got in it would have been a fucking disaster, but now he has to stand down as leader. And without him, they are nothing.



A few years ago I'd have agreed with you, and I still think that if Farage had been killed in that plane crash the Kippers probably wouldn't have got as far as they have, but the genie is out of the bottle now.  They've got a much more coherent organisation, much more money, a much more identifiable brand, a solid voter base and a sense of momentum.  It's not beyond the bounds of possibility it could all fall apart, but my guess is that unless they choose a complete idiot as their next leader then they're here to stay.

Not that I'm not smirking about Farage falling flat on his stupid face, of course.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Belushi said:


>


see post 3733


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> he's resigned cesare, that's pretty memorable


It's the only thing I will remember. Apart from the Wallace cartoons. Oh, and that bit of bother he got into with Unite and alleged ballot rigging.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> A few years ago I'd have agreed with you, and I still think that if Farage had been killed in that plane crash the Kippers probably wouldn't have got as far as they have, but the genie is out of the bottle now.  They've got a much more coherent organisation, much more money, a much more identifiable brand, a solid voter base and a sense of momentum.  It's not beyond the bounds of possibility it could all fall apart, but my guess is that unless they choose a complete idiot as their next leader then they're here to stay.
> 
> Not that I'm not smirking about Farage falling flat on his stupid face, of course.


tbh like fu manchu i don't suppose we've seen the last of falange


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Hell if we want to do unknown leaders how many people could have picked Blair out of a line up before John Smith croaked it.


Oh in that case, UKIP must be simply stuffed full of articulate and intelligent new leaders ready to lead them on to VICTORY.


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> see post 3733



I had to google, you've obviously got it saved on your hard drive


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> It's the only thing I will remember. Apart from the Wallace cartoons. Oh, and that bit of bother he got into with Unite and alleged ballot rigging.


and shafting the brother


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh like fu manchu i don't suppose we've seen the last of falange



No, probably not.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I had to google, you've obviously got it saved on your hard drive


a quick google for 'kilroy-silk slurry' gets the goods.


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> and shafting the brother


Sibling rivalry not helping cohesive Labour Party politics shocker


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


>


is that shit or mud? cos thats a fair game-face for a man covered in runny shite, if it be that


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> is that shit or mud? cos thats a fair game-face for a man covered in runny shite, if it be that


it's fucking SLURRY


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

I'm guessing that the issue is many Kippers would defect back to the Tories if the Tories drift right on immigration and Europe. It wouldn't take much. I know some.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> I'm guessing that the issue is many Kippers would defect back to the Tories if the Tories drift right on immigration and Europe. It wouldn't take much. I know some.


1979 all over again etc


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Who the fuck is he? I've no idea who he is, what he looks like or what his beliefs are.
> 
> Farage was the face of UKIP. He was the person who people identified with, and as US-style personality politics takes over the UK politics, he was hugely responsible for making the party more attractive to voters and something that people could identify with.
> 
> Put in the UKIP fuckwits that are usually seen babbling incoherently in front of the cameras and they become a lot less attractive to voters. Maybe they'll find someone with enough charm to continue their shitty mission, but anyone who underestimates the influence a charismatic leader can have on a party, truly is an idiot.



These cunts are a serious political party now with genuine support. They'll find another "charismatic" leader. They are by no means 'nothing without Farage'. Don't be daft.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> I'm guessing that the issue is many Kippers would defect back to the Tories if the Tories drift right on immigration and Europe. It wouldn't take much. I know some.


That's a far better point and something that I think is a real danger to them.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> I'm guessing that the issue is many Kippers would defect back to the Tories if the Tories drift right on immigration and Europe. It wouldn't take much. I know some.


Indeed. Without a credible and charismatic leader, UKIP's support could collapse just as quickly as it rose if the Tories shift to the right to accommodate their vile beliefs.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> These cunts are a serious political party now with genuine support. They'll find another "charismatic" leader. They are by no means 'nothing without Farage'. Don't be daft.



With 3.5million votes behind them and complete fawning in some of the media it should be pretty easy to find one body who can string a sentence together and stand around smiling drinking a pint in front of photographers.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> With 3.5million votes behind them and complete fawning in some of the media it should be pretty easy to find one body who can string a sentence together and stand around smiling drinking a pint in front of photographers.


Labour didn't seem to manage that too well.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 8, 2015)

What happens to the slab now ?


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 8, 2015)

Conference table at the Labour party HQ.  Like a really shit version of the one on Sons of Anarchy.


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

#edstone


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Labour didn't seem to manage that too well.



Labour are more hamstrung by their history, membership structures etc. UKIP can pretty much do whatever the fuck they like, that's part of the attraction.


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> With 3.5million votes behind them and complete fawning in some of the media it should be pretty easy to find one body who can string a sentence together and stand around smiling drinking a pint in front of photographers.



Of course. There will be a few. RKS is possibly one and there'll likely be a handful we've never heard of. This notion that we haven't heard of them yet so Ukip are "nothing" is utterly ridiculous.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (May 8, 2015)

Officially over. Traumatising. I'm still lost for words from 15 hours ago.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

The centre cannot hold etc


----------



## kenny g (May 8, 2015)

That stone did have touches of kinnock's victory speech in Sheffield the night before he lost.


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

Tbh smug non voters are nearly as annoyong as people going on about dying fot your right to vote.


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

Reading social media and whatnot I have this to ask: what is it about Tories that makes them so heartless, so arrogant and so sneering? The cunts couldn't be less gracious with their win.


----------



## JHE (May 8, 2015)

kenny g said:


> That stone did have touches of kinnock's victory speech in Sheffield the night before he lost.



Really?  Have people told you it influenced their vote?

When I see recordings of Kinnock's "We're allllriiiiiiiight!" bollocks, I can easily imagine people deciding they just couldn't vote to put him in Downing Street.  But when I see pics of Miliband and his monolith, I can only imagine people shrugging their shoulders.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Tbh smug non voters are nearly as annoyong as people going on about dying fot your right to vote.



Smugness is generally a bit shit, innit. It's all over my Fb timeline like a dirty protest (vote). More amusing is the sheer anger from Labour voters at the SNP voters for having the (ahem) balls to vote against austerity. V. patronising


----------



## DownwardDog (May 8, 2015)

ibilly99 said:


> What happens to the slab now ?



He can get it cut up to make a counter top for his embarrasingly shit kitchen.


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2015)

kenny g said:


> That stone did have touches of kinnock's victory speech in Sheffield the night before he lost.



Talking of Neil his son (married to the Danish PM) has been parachuted into the safe Labour seat of Aberavon.


----------



## Sweet FA (May 8, 2015)

Hello from Southampton.

Fucking hell.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2015)

UK Election 2015 – my considered response


----------



## killer b (May 8, 2015)

Good piece here: http://dougald.nu/the-only-way-is-down-18-notes-on-the-uk-election/


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

My ex SP mate who actually left for very legitimate reasons kept texting me to laugh at tusc results. I almost told them to fuck off.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

Sweet FA said:


> Hello from Southampton.
> 
> Fucking hell.
> 
> View attachment 71257



Do we need to start some kind of Berlin Airlift operation?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> The centre cannot hold etc


Interesting, but how many of that UKIP 12.6% would consider themselves to be left, not right?


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2015)

ibilly99 said:


> What happens to the slab now ?



It should follow him everywhere, like some punishment from the Greek Gods.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

Which will be the first tabloid cartoonist to feature it as a headstone for the labour party?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

jesus fuckj the vermin took Corby as well. #Where is my god now?


----------



## Corax (May 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> UKIP 3.5m votes: 1 seat
> SNP 1.5m votes: 56 seats
> 
> ?


Exactly why we should have a _*proper*_ PR system (and I don't mean fucking AV!)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

ibilly99 said:


> What happens to the slab now ?



Simon "The Thick of It" Blackwell's description of it as a policy cenotaph is my highlight of the whole campaign.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Simon "The Thick of It" Blackwell's description of it as a policy cenotaph is my highlight of the whole campaign.


the heaviest suicide note in history


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 8, 2015)




----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the heaviest suicide note in history



hahaha, briliant


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2015)

Sweet FA said:


> Hello from Southampton.
> 
> Fucking hell.
> 
> View attachment 71257



Reminded me a little bit of something.






Just remember. They don't like it up 'em. They do not like it up 'em!


----------



## Corax (May 8, 2015)

Sweet FA said:


> Hello from Southampton.
> 
> Fucking hell.
> 
> View attachment 71257


This is one of the only points of consolation I've found, living in that little red dot.  And of the council, it's exactly the same - My ward is a little red dot surrounded by blue.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


>



Picture/thousand words, etc...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


>


could you do one showing the affect their bricked window in brixton had on the share price?


----------



## Ted Striker (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Of course. There will be a few. RKS is possibly one and there'll likely be a handful we've never heard of. This notion that we haven't heard of them yet so Ukip are "nothing" is utterly ridiculous.



No chance. Farage is a one in a million personable type that made old school 'innocent' simpleton racism fashionable (for the 40+ set). The only person that could come close to galvanising that kind of leadership and following is Jeremy Clarkson. To be fair, I said the same about Salmond (and indeed thought Sturgeon was going to be the death of SNP such was her spikey initial 'media presence' (on QT etc)).

I think the UKIP '3rd place' is an overstatement - I think a lot of people voted for them knowing they wouldn't get in. Lets face it, if you wanted to pull the lefty reins on a local Labour stronghold, you'd vote UKIP as it's a more focussed 'message'. I think if a different system was introduced their support would dry up (even with Nige at the helm) - I nearly did the same by voting Green in a Tory safe seat.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Winter is Coming.


----------



## Das Uberdog (May 8, 2015)

Belushi said:


> It should follow him everywhere, like some punishment from the Greek Gods.



he should be forced to carry it up and down Mt. Olympus for eternity


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

Hehehe


----------



## Corax (May 8, 2015)

NHA did alright considering they were founded practically yesterday and are single-issue.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Winter is Coming.


Summer first. Good weather for aggro.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

Jesse Rae only got 135 votes in Berwickshire Roxburgh.
Bastards wouldn't let him take his five foot claymore into the polling stations!


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> could you do one showing the affect their bricked window in brixton had on the share price?



25th of April? Looks like it went up


----------



## malatesta32 (May 8, 2015)

http://newsthump.com/2015/05/08/everyone-thick-as-pig-shit/


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> 25th of April? Looks like it went up
> 
> View attachment 71260


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

What time does Natalie Bennett resign?


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> What time does Natalie Bennett resign?


..or does Leanne have to go first?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> What time does Natalie Bennett resign?


pencilled in for 3:17


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> What time does Natalie Bennett resign?


When Caroline Lucas says so.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> pencilled in for 3:17


She'll have to be quick; Bone speaks to the nation at 3.20


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> alan sked founded ukip



Farage was a founding member too.

I think that means he joined in the year they were founded (1993).


----------



## passenger (May 8, 2015)

its going to be a very long 5 years


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

So Harman goes after she's finished acting up?


----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

There are some positives from this. Richard Desmond has spunked a million quid with little to show for it. McVey lost her seat. The tories are operating on a slim majority. They dont have the backing of the 40 odd seats in the last coalition. Things arent going to be easy for Cameron-because he has to now implement his promises with no get out clause of having to compromise because he's part of a coalition -and I think, particularly around europe, they will struggle. 

Now with this slim majority he needs every swinging dick in the tory party to vote-meaning they could lose some key issues and even trigger a vote of no confidence in some circumstances-of course this slim majority wont be a problem if Labour carry on down the path of austerity-cause they'll vote for most cuts as they did last parliament.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

passenger said:


> its going to be a very long 5 years



Especially if you are serving 3 years of it for causing criminal damage whilst rioting!


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2015/05/08/uk-election-a-poisoned-chalice/ - Roberts offers a vague glimmer of cause for optimism.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Especially if you are serving 3 years of it for causing criminal damage whilst rioting!


my mum said that if she was in jail she'd know she would have three squares a day and a heated room to sleep in, but doing something to get you there would be unchristian. I've never seen her this despondant.


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> my mum said that if she was in jail she'd know she would have three squares a day and a heated room to sleep in, but doing something to get you there would be unchristian. I've never seen her this despondant.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> my mum said that if she was in jail she'd know she would have three squares a day and a heated room to sleep in, but doing something to get you there would be unchristian. I've never seen her this despondant.



((dotcommunists mum))


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> my mum said that if she was in jail she'd know she would have three squares a day and a heated room to sleep in, but doing something to get you there would be unchristian. I've never seen her this despondant.



I would give this a like, but I know only too well how deep the disappoint runs.  The struggle rolls on.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> There are some positives from this. Richard Desmond has spunked a million quid with little to show for it. McVey lost her seat. The tories are operating on a slim majority. They dont have the backing of the 40 odd seats in the last coalition. Things arent going to be easy for Cameron-because he has to now implement his promises with no get out clause of having to compromise because he's part of a coalition -and I think, particularly around europe, they will struggle.
> 
> Now with this slim majority he needs every swinging dick in the tory party to vote-meaning they could lose some key issues and even trigger a vote of no confidence in some circumstances-of course this slim majority wont be a problem if Labour carry on down the path of austerity-cause they'll vote for most cuts as they did last parliament.



I was just starting to think along those lines.  Let's hope there are quite a few _bastards_ on Cameron's back benches.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> my mum said that if she was in jail she'd know she would have three squares a day and a heated room to sleep in, but doing something to get you there would be unchristian. I've never seen her this despondant.


Fuck, fuck, fuck


----------



## flypanam (May 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> My ex SP mate who actually left for very legitimate reasons kept texting me to laugh at tusc results. I almost told them to fuck off.



Your mate is right though. I voted TUSC just out a long dwindling allegiance to aspects of trot politics, but its another failure in a quite tragic history of failure. The landscape has changed and the trots are so up their own arses they can't see it.

One bright spot was in Belfast west with PBP getting 19% of the vote.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

I had mild hopes of Lab + snp slowing austerity down by a few slivers. I feel profoundly depressed that we are not going to even get that.  I was woken up with a genuine panic attack last night.  Psychologically it's not just about what will happen, it's the feeling that you can do so little about it.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Strapline in the Graun, I don't know whether to laugh or cry
> 
> Nick Clegg – the inoffensive ordinary guy who could have been great






> One thing about Clegg is his appearance of supreme, inoffensive ordinariness that belies his family’s exotic origins, the Russian and Dutch antecedents and even his Spanish wife. He could be the headmaster of a successful prep school, perhaps, or a model in a Boden catalogue, the kind of person who would be comfortable to chat to at the school gate.



Yeah, that sounds right ordinary.

His record is two elections fought as leader:

1) Fewer MP's 
2) Party destroyed.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> I had mild hopes of Lab + snp slowing austerity down by a few slivers. I feel profoundly depressed that we are not going to even get that.  I was woken up with a genuine panic attack last night.  Psychologically it's not just about what will happen, it's the feeling that you do so little about it.


Is there a 'can' missing from the final clause?


----------



## heinous seamus (May 8, 2015)

Lib Dems got 318 votes in Glasgow East, can anyone beat that?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> I had mild hopes of Lab + snp slowing austerity down by a few slivers. I feel profoundly depressed that we are not going to even get that.  I was woken up with a genuine panic attack last night.  Psychologically it's not just about what will happen, it's the feeling that you do so little about it.



odd aint it- we know intellectually that lab were going to follow the same path but with a sliver of lube. But the thought of those public school boys- and its the fucking accents on em. I know thats not brainy, but its a gut reaction. I know those accents, I know what they've said. The fucking blood on them tones.

urgh

maybe I'll think more rationally tomorrow.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Is there a 'can' missing from the final clause?


There is yes! My reaction to last night's shit was to ramp up various meds to get to sleep. As a result even today's miserableism is incoherent.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

heinous seamus said:


> Lib Dems got 318 votes in Glasgow East, can anyone beat that?


They got 80 in tooting. 80.

edit:warning - please do no like this post until you read further, it was castle point and the people who put out the info last night had it as 80, it 801 - still a lost deposit though


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

Whey for the first time in my life I'm living in a Tory constituency, fuck.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> if she was in jail she'd know she would have three squares a day and a heated room to sleep in



now the tories don't have the 'sensible and moderating influence of the lib dems' i wouldn't bet on that for much longer...


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> odd aint it- we know intellectually that lab were going to follow the same path but with a sliver of lube. But the thought of those public school boys- and its the fucking accents on em. I know thats not brainy, but its a gut reaction. I know those accents, I know what they've said. The fucking blood on them tones.
> 
> urgh
> 
> maybe I'll think more rationally tomorrow.


Yeah, I'm not even thinking 'big picture', just words like Maximus, Bedroom Tax - and hateful cunts in the ascendant.  It'll be hearing the platitudes of the victorious, whilst knowing the shit they are about to unleash. This all feels worse than 2010.


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

copliker said:


> Galloway's loser speech started alright but then segued effortlessly into trademark vainglorious nonsense - "The hyena can dance on the lion's grave but it can never be a lion"



OMG he said *that*


----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> I was just starting to think along those lines.  Let's hope there are quite a few _bastards_ on Cameron's back benches.




Plenty and on Europe even more-I forsee the open war and old battle lines over europe causing real rifts. The backbenchers wont want a vote of confidence-but equally they are in a stronger position to force cameron to have to accommodate them even more now. He'll need them and they'll need him too.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> now the tories don't have the 'sensible and moderating influence of the lib dems' i wouldn't bet on that for much longer...


if they are any students of history they'll speak bread and water and practise different. Prison riots- strangeways- IIRC thatch once sent the SAS in to break a prison strike/riot.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2015)

Foxtons shares shot up by 13% today


----------



## 1%er (May 8, 2015)




----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

coley said:


> Whey for the first time in my life I'm living in a Tory constituency, fuck.




Yep me too. Labour had a 2000 majority. The tories targeted it. They had more resources to do so too. I saw them on my doorstep and leaflets 3-5 times a week come through my door. I had just two from Labour and not one member on my doorstep


----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

1%er said:


> View attachment 71263




edit


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Yeah, I'm not even thinking 'big picture', just words like Maximus, Bedroom Tax - and hateful cunts in the ascendant.  It'll be hearing the platitudes of the victorious, whilst knowing the shit they are about to unleash. This all feels worse than 2010.


Labour wouldn't have reversed that anyway.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

1%er said:


> View attachment 71263


so the tories got 36.9% of a mite less than 66% turnout: 24.4% of the registered population.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> Plenty and on Europe even more-I forsee the open war and old battle lines over europe causing real rifts. The backbenchers wont want a vote of confidence-but equally they are in a stronger position to force cameron to have to accommodate them even more now. He'll need them and they'll need him too.



I think you might well be right.  Hopefully the chuntering will start as soon as the initial euphoria at having won a majority - when, lest we forget, a lot of people thought the vermin might never be able to again - wears off.  It's a small crumb of comfort for a black day, anyway. 

Tbh, though, my sense of foreboding is getting worse.  The one area in which you could be generous enough to give the Lib Dems a little credit for moderating the Tories is renewable energy, something a lot of the Tory right have very little time for.  I imagine the renewables industry is eyeing the new government with a lot of trepidation.  Round here, with offshore wind etc the best economic hope in a couple of generations, it could really fuck things up.  Shit.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Hang on,it wasn't tooting - let me find which one it was.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

Better pull those anti depressants from out the back of the cupboard. Black Dog is back.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> Labour wouldn't have reversed that anyway.


Yeah, I know, just thinking of the kind of initiatives that will be ramped up as they speed the attack up.  Anyway, fuck em all.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

It was castle point. And bugger, it _was _80 last night (as many posts on here about it will confirm) - it's now 801.

edit: some places still say 80.


----------



## Barking_Mad (May 8, 2015)

I just don't understand people. I really don't. How can you please be so fucking selfish and inturn people less fortunate than you to more miserly?


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> I think you might well be right.  Hopefully the chuntering will start as soon as the initial euphoria at having won a majority - when, lest we forget, a lot of people thought the vermin might never be able to again - wears off.  It's a small crumb of comfort for a black day, anyway.
> 
> Tbh, though, my sense of foreboding is getting worse.  The one area in which you could be generous enough to give the Lib Dems a little credit for moderating the Tories is renewable energy, something a lot of the Tory right have very little time for.  I imagine the renewables industry is eyeing the new government with a lot of trepidation.  Round here, with offshore wind etc the best economic hope in a couple of generations, it could really fuck things up.  Shit.


Aye, one of the few bright spots in the last few years has been the move to renewables, though a lot more could have been done to actually move into turbine construction.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 8, 2015)

This was tweeted by the Electoral Reform Society - the number of votes (rounded) to elect an MP of a given party.

SNP 26k
Tory cunt 34k
Labour 40k
Libdem 291k 
Green 1.1m
UKIP 3.8m


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Yeah, I know, just thinking of the kind of initiatives that will be ramped up as they speed the attack up.  Anyway, fuck em all.


We have to ramp up our own initiatives.


----------



## Grandma Death (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> I think you might well be right.  Hopefully the chuntering will start as soon as the initial euphoria at having won a majority - when, lest we forget, a lot of people thought the vermin might never be able to again - wears off.  It's a small crumb of comfort for a black day, anyway.
> 
> Tbh, though, my sense of foreboding is getting worse.  The one area in which you could be generous enough to give the Lib Dems a little credit for moderating the Tories is renewable energy, something a lot of the Tory right have very little time for.  I imagine the renewables industry is eyeing the new government with a lot of trepidation.  Round here, with offshore wind etc the best economic hope in a couple of generations, it could really fuck things up.  Shit.




My only concern now is the only chance of voting down austerity now is an austerity party like Labour-if they vote through most of the measures as they did last term then we'll even more grim things to face in the next five years-if the tories are really gonna  struggle it'll be on the referendum and europe.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> I just don't understand people. I really don't. How can you please be so fucking selfish and inturn people less fortunate than you to more miserly?



Because it's easy to scare people...and it is especially easy to scare people when there is little or no positive and believable option available.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Favelado (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> I just don't understand people. I really don't. How can you please be so fucking selfish and inturn people less fortunate than you to more miserly?



The worst thing is that this has become a vicous circle now. Since Thatcher, the same pernicious messages about the needy have been repeated so many times that they've become givens as far as many are concerned. To get elected, you have to subscribe to them. Once elected you repeat them. Once repeated they become reinforced. 

It's a shame people aren't sad-looking dogs on Facebook, because people care about them.


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Jesse Rae only got 135 votes in Berwickshire Roxburgh.
> Bastards wouldn't let him take his five foot claymore into the polling stations!


And just over the border the Tories win with a 5000 majority!


----------



## bemused (May 8, 2015)

I think both Clegg and Miliband's resignation speeches were good.


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

bemused said:


> I think both Clegg and Miliband's resignation speeches were good.


Good compared to not having a resignation speech.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> My only concern now is the only chance of voting down austerity now is an austerity party like Labour-if they vote through most of the measures as they did last term then we'll even more grim things to face in the next five years-if the tories are really gonna  struggle it'll be on the referendum and europe.



I agree - it looks grim as fuck at the moment.  But the majority is tiny, and given the rightwing headbangers in the tory party I hope they resurrent their grievances with avengance like they did a couple of decades back.  There's also the usual rate of attrition of MPs dying, defecting or being convicted that might help shave numbers off the majority.  So some hope, but not much today.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

bemused said:


> I think both Clegg and Miliband's resignation speeches were good.


good compared to the sort of shit you hear from trots on demos.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> My only concern now is the only chance of voting down austerity now is an austerity party like Labour-if they vote through most of the measures as they did last term then we'll even more grim things to face in the next five years-if the tories are really gonna  struggle it'll be on the referendum and europe.


yeh my more immediate concern is not 'who do i vote for' but 'how shit will things get in the next five months, let alone the next five years'.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> They got 80 in tooting. 80.


I think that was the Castle point haul, actually.


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> There are some positives from this. Richard Desmond has spunked a million quid with little to show for it. McVey lost her seat. The tories are operating on a slim majority. They dont have the backing of the 40 odd seats in the last coalition. Things arent going to be easy for Cameron-because he has to now implement his promises with no get out clause of having to compromise because he's part of a coalition -and I think, particularly around europe, they will struggle.
> 
> Now with this slim majority he needs every swinging dick in the tory party to vote-meaning they could lose some key issues and even trigger a vote of no confidence in some circumstances-of course this slim majority wont be a problem if Labour carry on down the path of austerity-cause they'll vote for most cuts as they did last parliament.



Aye, Major had a 21 seat majority and they spent the next few years tearing themselves to bits.


----------



## cesare (May 8, 2015)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I agree - it looks grim as fuck at the moment.  But the majority is tiny, and given the rightwing headbangers in the tory party I hope they resurrent their grievances with avengance like they did a couple of decades back.  There's also the usual rate of attrition of MPs dying, defecting or being convicted that might help shave numbers off the majority.  So some hope, but not much today.


I wonder how many of the present incumbents might go to the wall in child abuse fall out.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I think that was the Castle point haul, actually.


There has been further investigation i'm afraid and it appears it was a phantom 80.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 8, 2015)

Warwick & Leamington.  Lib-Dems lost deposit by 14 votes, tragic.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> There has been further investigation i'm afraid and it appears it was a phantom 80.


Shame; but even being wrong by a factor of 10 sees them well short of 1k


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 8, 2015)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Warwick & Leamington.  Lib-Dems lost deposit by 14 votes, tragic.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> I wonder how many of the present incumbents might go to the wall in child abuse fall out.



That would be interesting if it happened.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2015)

I don't understand. What happened?


----------



## Lurdan (May 8, 2015)

I see here in Bethnal Green and Bow the 'Red Flag - Anti - Corruption' candidate managed to parlay his groupings involvement in the legal action which overturned Mayor Rahman into coming last with 58 votes. That's one fifth of the votes the 'Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol' candidate got. 

Otherwise collapse of the Lib vote, most of it going to Labour.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

Barking_Mad said:


> I just don't understand people. I really don't. How can you please be so fucking selfish and inturn people less fortunate than you to more miserly?



Because people just want to get on with their lives as untroubled as possible, and were sold the idea that a Labour-led government would be 'chaos'.  That's the term Cameron pedalled over and over again, while other tory MPs were tweeting simultaneously about his 'commanding performance' when involved in any debate, emphasising him as a safe pair of hands.  It's not about hating the poor or the sick, it's just a failure to even consider them and put your own security first.  Self-interest rather than spite.  Government now controls so little and holds so little ideology that all most people demand is competence (no matter how illusory). That was the battleground.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

So, who will lead the Octocunts now, and does it matter?


----------



## paolo (May 8, 2015)

coley said:


> Aye, Major had a 21 seat majority and they spent the next few years tearing themselves to bits.



My worry: This'll lead to worse. EU exit (for me) is a dark shadow. Cameron never wanted it, but was appeasing. With a slim majority, he'll carry on playing party politics and potentially we're out. 

Hope I'm wrong about that.


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Because people just want to get on with their lives as untroubled as possible, and were sold the idea that a Labour-led government would be 'chaos'.  That's the term Cameron pedalled over and over again, while other tory MPs were tweeting simultaneously about his 'commanding performance' when involved in any debate, emphasising him as a safe pair of hands.  It's not about hating the poor or the sick, it's just a failure to even consider them and put your own security first.  Self-interest rather than spite.  Government now controls so little and holds so little ideology that all most people demand is competence (no matter how illusory). That was the battleground.



A lot of them also do genuinely hate the poor and disabled, don't discount that.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> My worry: This'll lead to worse. EU exit (for me) is a dark shadow. Cameron never wanted it, but was appeasing. With a slim majority, he'll carry on playing party politics and potentially we're out.
> 
> Hope I'm wrong about that.


Potential silver lining.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> So, who will lead the Octocunts now, and does it matter?


You want to trademark that one.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

Potentially daft question, but does anyone know why St Ives still hasn't declared a result?  Has it gone to a recount, or are they just being slow off the mark down there in the far south-west?!


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Potentially daft question, but does anyone know why St Ives still hasn't declared a result?  Has it gone to a recount, or are they just being slow off the mark down there in the far south-west?!


Perhaps they just thought 'fuck it'?


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Potentially daft question, but does anyone know why St Ives still hasn't declared a result?  Has it gone to a recount, or are they just being slow off the mark down there in the far south-west?!


Embarrassment at relatively high lib dem vote.

I expect ukip related though.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 8, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> I don't understand. What happened?



The glare from the moonfaced twat's shiny forehead temporarily blinded voters across the country causing them to vote for tory scum by mistake.


----------



## Cadmus (May 8, 2015)

Bye bye Human Rights Act!


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

People in Sheffield look so miserable today. Sapped. I went for a walk in the city centre last night around 3:30am and hardly anyone was there, very strange for a Thursday night, other than a handful of people who seemed to be doing the same thing as me.

At least it's raining now, the sun shining earlier just seemed wrong.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Potentially daft question, but does anyone know why St Ives still hasn't declared a result?  Has it gone to a recount, or are they just being slow off the mark down there in the far south-west?!



They're slow at counting.  

It's to do with having to fly ballot boxes from the Scilly Isles apparently, although as Scotland manages this quicker I find it a bit strange.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> My worry: This'll lead to worse. EU exit (for me) is a dark shadow. Cameron never wanted it, but was appeasing. With a slim majority, he'll carry on playing party politics and potentially we're out.
> 
> Hope I'm wrong about that.


he's a fucking politician, of course he'll play fucking party politicks


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

paolo said:


> My worry: This'll lead to worse. EU exit (for me) is a dark shadow. Cameron never wanted it, but was appeasing. With a slim majority, he'll carry on playing party politics and potentially we're out.
> 
> Hope I'm wrong about that.


I can't really see that happening tbh, referendum wise it appears the public largely want to stay in and global capital certainly don't want us to leave and it is they, increasingly who have and are calling the shots.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

farmerbarleymow said:


> They're slow at counting.
> 
> It's to do with having to fly ballot boxes from the Scilly Isles apparently, although as Scotland manages this quicker I find it a bit strange.



It's downhill from Scotland, uphill from the Scillys!


----------



## Quartz (May 8, 2015)

Cadmus said:


> Bye bye Human Rights Act!



We should campaign for them to replace it with something better.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2015)

farmerbarleymow said:


> The glare from the moonfaced twat's shiny forehead temporarily blinded voters across the country causing them to vote for tory scum by mistake.


What happens next?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Jesse Rae only got 135 votes in Berwickshire Roxburgh.
> Bastards wouldn't let him take his five foot claymore into the polling stations!


five feet coincidentally about 135 cm


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

teqniq said:


> I can't really see that happening tbh, referendum wise it appears the public largely want to stay in and global capital certainly don't want us to leave and it is they, increasingly who have and are calling the shots.


I think we've heard enough from the polls today thank you!


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

hahaha


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> What happens next?



A&E departments are flooded with people seeking treatment for retinal damage.  A bit like that scene from _Threads_, but without the amputations.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Cadmus said:


> Bye bye Human Rights Act!


bye bye magna farta


----------



## Sirena (May 8, 2015)

krtek a houby said:


> What happens next?


Everybody goes into a what-the-fuck slump..


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> A&E departments are flooded with people seeking treatment for retinal damage.  A bit like that scene from _Threads_, but without the amputations.


...and less funding.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> A&E departments are flooded with people seeking treatment for retinal damage.  A bit like that scene from _Threads_, but without the amputations.








for triffids read tories


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Sirena said:


> Everybody goes into a what-the-fuck slump..


less than 25% of the registered population voted tory.

yet we're saddled with five wasted years. has anyone else received a letter ohms saying 'by the end of this parliament you will have no money left'?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> We should campaign for them to replace it with something better.


Yes, full communism.


----------



## Lurdan (May 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, full communism.


Indeed but is that old "full communism" or new "full communism" ?


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

Lurdan said:


> Indeed but is that old "full communism" or new "full communism" ?



I think provisional communism would be a decent starting point.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Lots of the people who voted Tory and UKIP are now going to feel the full force of the universal credit trap.


----------



## Cadmus (May 8, 2015)

Quartz said:


> We should campaign for them to replace it with something better.


If you want to retain the principle of parliamentary sovereignty (=courts cannot repeal laws made by parliament, i.e. parliament is "supreme"), there is nothing better. The HRA is the best possible compromise and there is nothing wrong with it. What's wrong is the public's perception of it (fuelled by the ignorant media).

Have a look at the list in the image I attached. None of those policies were stopped by the UK judiciary and the Tories want exactly that judiciary to have the final say by repealing the HRA.


----------



## mack (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> less than 25% of the registered population voted tory.
> 
> yet we're saddled with five wasted years.



Can the remaining 75% not camp outside queenys house and get her to change the rules like so it's a bit fairer for the rest of us - maybe Brand could lead this?


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

*When Politics Is This Broken It’s Time To Get Out In The Fucking Streets – Starting Tomorrow, 3pm Conservative HQ*



> If yesterday’s election showed anything it is that most people do not want a Tory government.  Just 20% of the public voted Tory – the same proportion of the population the Office for National Statistics estimates have a personal wealth of over £600,000.  The rich are in charge despite what the rest of us want.  As usual.
> 
> No matter what might have happened yesterday the rich would still be in charge.  The UK’s electoral system has been designed over hundreds of years to ensure precisely that.  In Scotland the whole country can vote on mass to reject both of the main political parties and it doesn’t make a blind bit of fucking difference.  A million people can vote Green and nearly four million UKIP and nothing will change.  Although the UKIP thing is pretty funny.  Bye Nigel.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

John Mann just bigged up Dan Jarvis as next leader over Yvette Cooper who is tainted by being from the 'old school Blair/Brown Labour Party.'
On the BBC.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Potentially daft question, but does anyone know why St Ives still hasn't declared a result?  Has it gone to a recount, or are they just being slow off the mark down there in the far south-west?!


webbed hands slowing down the counting proccess


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Potentially daft question, but does anyone know why St Ives still hasn't declared a result?  Has it gone to a recount, or are they just being slow off the mark down there in the far south-west?!



Ross Poldark is galloping along the clifftop with a satchel of ballot papers.


----------



## J Ed (May 8, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> John Mann just bigged up Dan Jarvis as next leader over Yvette Cooper who is tainted by being from the 'old school Blair/Brown Labour Party.'
> On the BBC.



How is Dan Jarvis not a Blairite by _conviction_? He's chair of Progress.


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> webbed hands slowing down the counting proccess


Bit harsh but  I was going to suggest that they were too engrossed in painting seascapes


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> John Mann just bigged up Dan Jarvis as next leader over Yvette Cooper who is tainted by being from the 'old school Blair/Brown Labour Party.'
> On the BBC.


Scottish woman doing the results last night for BBC, couldn't stop mentioning him when next leader even hinted at. The one to the left of bullingdon club member dimblebey (from his position). Something's going on amongst the elite here.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> webbed hands slowing down the counting proccess



Lutraphobe!


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

J Ed said:


> *When Politics Is This Broken It’s Time To Get Out In The Fucking Streets – Starting Tomorrow, 3pm Conservative HQ*


In the middle of all the shite last night, I hadn't noticed McVey had lost her seat. Ha Ha.


----------



## agricola (May 8, 2015)

J Ed said:


> How is Dan Jarvis not a Blairite by _conviction_? He's chair of Progress.



Mann's advocacy of him seemed to be based solely on him having a "real" job.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2015)

Sirena said:


> Everybody goes into a what-the-fuck slump..



I'm there. It started with some clown crowing that "the left is in tatters" and went rapidly downhill since


----------



## CNT36 (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Potentially daft question, but does anyone know why St Ives still hasn't declared a result?  Has it gone to a recount, or are they just being slow off the mark down there in the far south-west?!


Flying papers in from the Isles of Scilly.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

J Ed said:


> How is Dan Jarvis not a Blairite by _conviction_? He's chair of Progress.



My first thought was ex army officer, how establishment can you get?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 8, 2015)

Yeah, cheers Axelrod. Kindly fuck off back to Washington now.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Potentially daft question, but does anyone know why St Ives still hasn't declared a result?  Has it gone to a recount, or are they just being slow off the mark down there in the far south-west?!


There will be nobody in St Ives. They will have popped over to Helston for the "Furry Dance" (Flora Dance) as that happens on 8 May. Nothing much to dance about this time though. Cornwall was LibDem territory until now so there may be a few sad faces.


----------



## CNT36 (May 8, 2015)

bollocks


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

SPINGO!!!


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

Spunking cock voters actually supporting tories, shocker - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/angry-voter-who-drew-penis-5661773


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2015)

and the tories take St Ives.   it's all over


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

Live-stitch rolling poll update. He's slower than St Ives.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> Spunking cock voters actually supporting tories, shocker - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/angry-voter-who-drew-penis-5661773


Lesson - _on me, not in me._


----------



## SE25 (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> my mum said that if she was in jail she'd know she would have three squares a day and a heated room to sleep in, but doing something to get you there would be unchristian. I've never seen her this despondant.



I see where she's coming from, she isn't alone. Going to take a long time to get over this.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> My first thought was ex army officer, how establishment can you get?


Worked well with Major Eric Joyce.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Yeah, cheers Axelrod. Kindly fuck off back to Washington now.




Fucks sake, its a game to them isn't it?

or a business


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Worked well with Major Eric Joyce.



Eric 'slugger' Joyce, didn't he leave the Army or face a discharge for some wrong doing?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Worked well with Major Eric Joyce.



It's odd that he steps out with India Knight.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

mack said:


> Can the remaining 75% not camp outside queenys house and get her to change the rules like so it's a bit fairer for the rest of us - maybe Brand could lead this?


i favour a more permanent solution involving tumbrils and guillotines - which would attract far more tourists to the uk than the foul saxe-coburg-gotha dynasts have


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> It's odd that he steps out with India Knight.


and steps in with the constabulary


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

Kin'ell Charles Clarke on now, I thought he had passed on!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Kin'ell Charles Clarke on now, I thought he had passed on!


sadly not


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Ex labour voters just didn't buy labours offer on immigration, for them a living wage, etc, just meant that more migrants would come to take advantage of it, I am not sure what they can do.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

This BBC 3d commons bollocks is fucking shite



Dogsauce said:


> Just in case anyone wasn't feeling punchy enough right now:
> 
> View attachment 71270



I should have got the day off work, that way I could just turn the internet and news for a few days


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

This is how being on the wrong side of the magnification set up works:

Andrew Cooper @AndrewCooper__
Labour only got 200,000 votes less than in 2005 - when they ended up with an overall majority of 66


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> Ex labour voters just didn't buy labours offer on immigration, for them a living wage, etc, just meant that more migrants would come to take advantage of it, I am not sure what they can do.



I'm really not that certain immigration had much to do with it- do you live in an area with a high influx of immigrants? Have you worked the jobs alongside those people and the 'native' brit? I have and its not daggers at dawn.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

One last time....









> _Have you ever wondered
> Why I sound just like my deputy?
> Does he seem redundant,
> Or do I? (Oh baby)
> ...


----------



## frogwoman (May 8, 2015)

flypanam said:


> Your mate is right though. I voted TUSC just out a long dwindling allegiance to aspects of trot politics, but its another failure in a quite tragic history of failure. The landscape has changed and the trots are so up their own arses they can't see it.
> 
> One bright spot was in Belfast west with PBP getting 19% of the vote.



I know shes right.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

I think my lack of sleep is cutting in now...not feeling massively chipper about much...and a little phrase keeps on nagging at the back of my mind...


> _five more years_


..and with it I'm getting flash-backs of vermin conferences of the 1980s with the adoring party bods belting it out like they're on the Zeppelin field parade ground.

Apols....tired and grouchy.

bishop's needed


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Sparkle Motion said:


> The problem is people don't vote for anarchists or anarchism. Not because they are stupid or brainwashed, but because they don't want to. What should anarchists do to overcome their total irrelevance to the overwhelming majority of people?



Which misses the point (quite spectacularly!) that Class War didn't stand in those constituencies to win votes, they stood in order to get good publicity for issues.
BTW, anarchism isn't about appealing to a majority - it's rarely party-political. It's about people coming together in their communities *for* their communities. Bottom-up, not top-down.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 8, 2015)

Am I being cynical in expecting Clegg getting a cushy cushion in the House of Lords for services to the nation ie (holding the homeless whilst they get kicked) from his Tory best buds?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I think my lack of sleep is cutting in now...not feeling massively chipper about much...and a little phrase keeps on nagging at the back of my mind...
> ​..and with it I'm getting flash-backs of vermin conferences of the 1980s with the adoring party bods belting it out like they're on the Zeppelin field parade ground.
> 
> Apols....tired and grouchy.
> ...


when will we get time off for good behaviour?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> What the fuck are you on about? They'll replace him, probably with someone less obviously wanky.
> 
> 3.5 million people have just voted for them but they're "nothing" without Farage?
> 
> Do us a favour.



Editor has a point, insofar as Farage was/is a figurehead behind which a lot of disparate politics could be brought together. I'm not sure that any of the former Tories or professional gobshites who make up UKIP's "officer class" have the ability to unite the factions like that.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Had you heard of Farage before he became leader in 2006?



I had, but then I'm a spod where politics is concerned.


----------



## prunus (May 8, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> They obviously underestimated the popularity of alcohol.



Or the appeal of danger?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> Milliband giving it large about Labour being the party for social justice - what transparent bollocks. I've still got the poxy HoC headed notepaper with Fitzpatrick refusing to do anything about IDS's retrospective workfare legislation.
> 
> I can't think of a single noteworthy thing that Milliband has done. I'll remember his tenure as being a bland 5 years of doing nothing. He didn't even get round to the policies review he promised.



Sadly, there wasn't a single other contestant (*perhaps* bar Abbott) that would have done anything differently. They'd all, in spite of their protestations of political dynamism, have trod exactly the same cautious,Mammon-fellating path.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Oh in that case, UKIP must be simply stuffed full of articulate and intelligent new leaders ready to lead them on to VICTORY.



One of two things will happen:
1) There'll be civil war between the UKIP honchos such as Carswell, Akers and Nuttall, and the party will be reduced to a handful of non-cooperating ineffective rumps, or
2) They'll have already formulated some kind of succession plan that utilises the various UKIP supporters as a form of pressure group _a la_ The Cuntyside Alliance, and will continue using their core demographic to fight local and by-elections.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 8, 2015)

So if the English, Scottish and Welsh seats were distributed proportionately, nation by nation, the results wold be as follows:

Note: the first column is England , the second Scotland and the third Wales. The figures in brackets are the actual seats won.

Con: -	  218 (319),	9 (1),	 11 (11)		  tot: 238 (331)
Lab: -	  168 (206),	14 (1),	15, (25)		 tot: 197 (232)
LD: -		44 (6),		 4 (1),	  3 (1)			 tot: 51 (8)
Ukip: -	  75 (1),		 1 (0),	 5 (0)			 tot: 81 (1)
Green: -	22 (1),		 1 (0),	 1 (0)			 tot: 24 (1)
SNP: -		0 (0),		 30 (56),	0 (0)			tot: 30 (56)
PC: -		  0 (0),		  0 (0),	  5 (3)			tot:  5 (3)

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> These cunts are a serious political party now with genuine support. They'll find another "charismatic" leader. They are by no means 'nothing without Farage'. Don't be daft.



TBF, there's no fucker currently in their ranks who could be called "charismatic" by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## 1%er (May 8, 2015)

What is the size of the eurosceptic block with-in the Tory party after this election?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> jesus fuckj the vermin took Corby as well. #Where is my god now?



Dead, like all of them.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Well his deputy is Paul Nuttal but that's not the point. You had never heard of Farage before he founded UKIP had you?
> 
> The fact is that UKIP have made huge voting gains and anyone who dismisses them as 'nothing without Farage', is an idiot.


We'll see. I would definitely contend that they would not have done what they've just done without Farage. And as far as the vast majority of people are concerned, UKIP _is_ Farage. I doubt many people outside of hard-core supporters or political saddoes like us on here could name a single other. Perhaps 'that Tory changeling with the weird eyes'. 

Farage was extremely effective and energetic. Perhaps they will find someone else who can be effective, but I don't think it's a given, and if there is some kind of in/out referendum on the EU (which I suspect would vote 'in' by a bit of a margin) then UKIP may be seen as an irrelevance at the next election, campaigning on the basis of something that everyone knows won't happen.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Dead, like all of them.


and we have killed them, what sacred games will we have to invent, what water can wash this blood off our hands? all that was mightiest  etc etc


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

JFI....UKIP share of the popular vote = *42% of Labour*.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> We'll see. I would definitely contend that they would not have done what they've just done without Farage. And as far as the vast majority of people are concerned, UKIP _is_ Farage. I doubt many people outside of hard-core supporters or political saddoes like us on here could name a single other. Perhaps 'that Tory changeling with the weird eyes'.
> 
> Farage was extremely effective and energetic. Perhaps they will find someone else who can be effective, but I don't think it's a given, and if there is some kind of in/out referendum on the EU (which I suspect would vote 'in' by a bit of a margin) then UKIP may be seen as an irrelevance at the next election, campaigning on the basis of something that everyone knows won't happen.


Farage has hinted at standing for election after a holiday  - do you really think he won't be jumping at it with a 2017 referendum on the horizon ? He's going into that leading that party.


----------



## elbows (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Yeah, that sounds right ordinary.
> 
> His record is two elections fought as leader:
> 
> ...



3) Electoral reform referendum botched and failed.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> I was just starting to think along those lines.  Let's hope there are quite a few _bastards_ on Cameron's back benches.



Remember Major, '92-'97? It'll be like that, but far more publicised, and far more bloody.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Farage has hinted at stabding for election - do you really think he won't be jumping at it with a 2017 referendum? He's going into that leading that party.


I suspect you're right. Certainly he's the only one who's resigned today who didn't have to resign.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

elbows said:


> 3) Electoral reform referendum botched and failed.


Sure - but that was just meant to be results of election #1 and #2 as leader on the party rather than his many wider failures/destructions.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Remember Major, '92-'97? It'll be like that, but far more publicised, and far more bloody.


Cameron will deeply regret being boxed into such a tight timetable for the Brexit ref. The 'bastards' will keep their heads down until that's done and dusted.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Remember Major, '92-'97? It'll be like that, but far more publicised, and far more bloody.


And remember all the damage the Major govt did with its shitcunt policies.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Remember Major, '92-'97? It'll be like that, but far more publicised, and far more bloody.



Let's hope so.  Some nice juicy affairs and cash-for-favours/access/blowjobs scandals would complete the feeling of being back in the mid-90s.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Farage has hinted at standing for election after a holiday .


I didn't realise this bit, tbh. OK, so he's having a bit of a break, that's all.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Let's hope so.  Some nice juicy affairs and cash-for-favours/access/blowjobs scandals would complete the feeling of being back in the mid-90s.


Rail's been privatised already. What's left to fuck up now... I fear for the NHS, first up.


----------



## elbows (May 8, 2015)

free spirit said:


> we're definitely not going to win in Leeds West so that'd be a waste of a vote.
> 
> We don't have a councillor, but we were close to one in Headingley last year before the Green Surge in support.
> 
> ...



Oh what a shock, this turned out to be bollocks.

In fact, the seat you said would be a waste of a vote got 8.37% green compared to your seat's 7% green.


----------



## golightly (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Let's hope so.  Some nice juicy affairs and cash-for-favours/access/blowjobs scandals would complete the feeling of being back in the mid-90s.


 
Traffic cones.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Rail's been privatised already. What's left to fuck up now... I fear for the NHS, first up.


You forgotten already. They're going to privatise housing association stock.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Cameron will deeply regret being boxed into such a tight timetable for the Brexit ref. The 'bastards' will keep their heads down until that's done and dusted.



I'm not sure about that.  Europe isn't the only potential faultline, and there are plenty of loons on the Tory back benches who could make trouble. Fingers crossed they start soon.


----------



## elbows (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Sure - but that was just meant to be results of election #1 and #2 as leader on the party rather than his many wider failures/destructions.



It was a vote though so I thought I'd throw it into the mix.


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2015)

golightly said:


> Traffic cones.


Keep an eye on who cameron appoints as jnr Health Minister for eggs.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

brogdale said:


> You forgotten already. They're going to privatise housing association stock.


Oh yeah.


----------



## starfish (May 8, 2015)

Devastated & stunned. The fact we kept the Green one doesnt make up for the final result.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And remember all the damage the Major govt did with its shitcunt policies.



I do.


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

elbows said:


> It was a vote though so I thought I'd throw it into the mix.


We shall have to do a proper reckoning at some point.


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And remember all the damage the Major govt did with its shitcunt policies.



On the other hand he did give us the Cones Hotline.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Let's hope so.  Some nice juicy affairs and cash-for-favours/access/blowjobs scandals would complete the feeling of being back in the mid-90s.



I suspect there's a bit of safe-rifling already going on at various national media outlets, looking for the stories that were set by for a rainy day...


----------



## Spymaster (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> One of two things will happen:
> 1) There'll be civil war between the UKIP honchos such as Carswell, Akers and Nuttall, and the party will be reduced to a handful of non-cooperating ineffective rumps, or
> 2) They'll have already formulated some kind of succession plan that utilises the various UKIP supporters as a form of pressure group _a la_ The Cuntyside Alliance, and will continue using their core demographic to fight local and by-elections.



Farage also hasn't ruled out standing for the UKIP leadership again later in the year.

eta> as mentioned above.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Rail's been privatised already. What's left to fuck up now... I fear for the NHS, first up.



Roads network (welcome to a new age of  tollbooths that'll hopefully be treated like their ancestors were) is bound to go.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> I'm not sure about that.  Europe isn't the only potential faultline, and there are plenty of loons on the Tory back benches who could make trouble. Fingers crossed they start soon.



They won't be able to resist. I'm betting Cameron is already wishing he'd taken a cleaver to the 1922 Committee when he had the chance.
Me, I'm rather glad that he bottled it.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> I suspect there's a bit of safe-rifling already going on at various national media outlets, looking for the stories that were set by for a rainy day...



But how many would actually publish? Half the press have the Tories in their pockets


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Farage also hasn't ruled out standing for the UKIP leadership again later in the year.
> 
> eta> as mentioned above.



He'll wait out any carnage first, then do the old "white knight" _schtick_.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> But how many would actually publish? Half the press have the Tories in their pockets



You don't have to publish in order to have leverage.  Back in the day, the Hitler-loving Rothermere kept files on hundreds of MPs of all parties, and let the politicians know it. Their guilty consciences ensured that he always had fresh insider dirt to fuel his stories.


----------



## rekil (May 8, 2015)

Cunt.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> We'll see. I would definitely contend that they would not have done what they've just done without Farage. And as far as the vast majority of people are concerned, UKIP _is_ Farage. I doubt many people outside of hard-core supporters or political saddoes like us on here could name a single other. Perhaps 'that Tory changeling with the weird eyes'.
> 
> Farage was extremely effective and energetic. Perhaps they will find someone else who can be effective, but I don't think it's a given, and if there is some kind of in/out referendum on the EU (which I suspect would vote 'in' by a bit of a margin) then UKIP may be seen as an irrelevance at the next election, campaigning on the basis of something that everyone knows won't happen.




Diane James is a contender, doesn't come across as bonkers.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

copliker said:


> Cunt.
> 
> View attachment 71272



there are thousands like that all over the web, especially on CIF


----------



## rekil (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> there are thousands like that all over the web, especially on CIF


I know but I am interested in the blue tick ones atm.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

One reason why the Tories may have won, just been waiting in the rain for a taxi watching the cars go to the posher parts of the city and then the Peaks, not exaggerating at times there were six or seven BMW's (the really expensive ones) Chelsea tractrors or sports cars in a line and with about every 5th car being one of them, some people have done very very well the last five years.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> Diane James is a contender, doesn't come across as bonkers.



That was the one I was just trying to remember.  She comes across as a human being.  Weirdos like Nuttall will always be in the background.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

One of the things I find slightly odd is the talk of this as a "huge victory" for the Conservatives. In the context of the election, but they've barely got a majority of, what, five? That's hardly an unrestricted mandate. Plus it was probably more down to the opposition than their own skill.

They'll no doubt get support from across the aisle on certain things, but will be interesting (and/or terrifying) to see just how easy they have it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> One reason why the Tories may have won, just been waiting in the rain for a taxi watching the cars go to the posher parts of the city and then the Peaks, not exaggerating at times there were six or seven BMW's (the really expensive ones) Chelsea tractrors or sports cars in a line and with about every 5th car being one of them, some people have done very very well the last five years.


Some have done well, no doubt about it. Anyone who has a mortgage dating pre-credit crunch has often hundreds more in their pockets each month from lower interest rates. Anyone with employees has been able to suppress wages below inflation. Those who own stuff - various forms of capital - are doing well, and the Tories will always represent the interests of those who own stuff.


----------



## Casually Red (May 8, 2015)

yardbird said:


> Labour with David Miliband instead of Ed would have done much better.
> Public image = votes.
> Fickle public.



Only if everyone's politics are absolutely shite and there's nothing else to go on, like it's feckin x factor. The SNP have just vaporised Scottish labour out of existence in their safest seats , with absolutely massive swings to previous unknowns, it's a genuine political revolution . Neither Alex Salmond or Sturgeon are candidates from central casting . They're just ordinary joe soaps with firm anti austerity and anti Trident platform .And they haven't been doing anything remotely fancy or gimmicky .

Their politics certainly aren't even remotely radical, despite being well to the left of labour . And they've politicised and mobilised their country's people to the extent they've given the Westminster establishment the biggest kicking ever , not just beating them but slaughtering them like a horde of genghis khans meanest versus some hapless peasants .. They've definitively been told to fuck the fuck off . For good by the looks of things .

In all honesty I'd be of the opinion it's irrelevant who's the next labour leader . It'll just be someone Cameron Osborne and Boris and their descendants are laughing at for the next 20 years . Or more .

The UK looks to be finished , and labour with it .


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Only if everyone's politics are absolutely shite and there's nothing else to go on, like it's feckin x factor. .


tbh anyone umming and ahhing about whether to vote labour or tory in the week leading up to an election _is_ someone with shite politics. It's someone with no politics, who completes those BBC-style questionnaires that show them how particular policies might affect their pockets, and votes according to the results. There are a fair few people like that - I was in the pub with one last night.


----------



## Poi E (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> tbh anyone umming and ahhing about whether to vote labour or tory in the week leading up to an election _is_ someone with shite politics.



Could it be that politics is shite? I can understand many people not seeing a lot of difference between labour and the Tories.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

Poi E said:


> Could it be that politics is shite? I can understand many people not seeing a lot of difference between labour and the Tories.


Of course, politics is shite. But the idea that you work out which party will be better for you personally by doing a calculation based on their declared policies isn't politics as I understand it, not if your calculation doesn't even consider what those policies will also do to others. 

The two are linked, of course - it is precisely this kind of apolitical voter that both parties aim their campaigns at.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Of course, politics is shite. But the idea that you work out which party will be better for you personally by doing a calculation based on their declared policies isn't politics as I understand it, not if your calculation doesn't even consider what those policies will also do to others.
> 
> The two are linked, of course - it is precisely this kind of apolitical voter that both parties aim their campaigns at.



But that IS neoliberal politics, basically? I guess we'll see more of it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> But that IS neoliberal politics, basically? I guess we'll see more of it.


Yep.

_Hard-working families. _


----------



## Poi E (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Of course, politics is shite. But the idea that you work out which party will be better for you personally by doing a calculation based on their declared policies isn't politics as I understand it, not if your calculation doesn't even consider what those policies will also do to others.



A decent electoral system would help. 

Wonder if Sturgeon will put something in the SNP manifesto for 2016 about certain red lines that could hint hint trigger a new Indy ref. Something like trident. If Labour/Tory press ahead then they look like they'd rather have trident than the union. Neither has any sway North of the border so a big yes to independence.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

Poi E said:


> A decent electoral system would help.
> 
> Wonder if Sturgeon will put something in the SNP manifesto for 2016 about certain red lines that could hint hint trigger a new Indy ref. Something like trident. If Labour/Tory press ahead then they look like they'd rather have trident than the union. Neither has any sway North of the border so a big yes to independence.


On what authority can she do that?


----------



## Poi E (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> On what authority can she do that?



Do you mean mandate? Or legal authority?


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## treelover (May 8, 2015)

My neighbour who is a fantastic guy, 80s' graduate but full time cleaner, last week said he wasn't sure he would vote, didn't know much about the parties, wasn't happy about Milliband banning Islamaphobia, etc, and no he is not a racist/xenophobe, yet he would have voted labour of green when pushed, lots of potentials just don't vote.


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## Nigel Irritable (May 8, 2015)

Votes per seat:

SNP 26k
Con 34.5k
Lab 40.5k
Lib Dem 295k
Green 1.1m
Ukip 3.8m

Christ your electoral system is bizarre.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

Wonder what would have happened in the Scottish ref if it had been scheduled for next year rather than this? Yes, okay, Labour would probably have held onto a few more seats in Scotland yesterday, but the ref itself might have been closer.  Pointless speculation, admittedly.


----------



## happie chappie (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> They've got a much more coherent organisation, much more money, a much more identifiable brand, a solid voter base and a sense of momentum.  It's not beyond the bounds of possibility it could all fall apart, but my guess is that unless they choose a complete idiot as their next leader then they're here to stay.



Exactly the same could have been of the BNP a few years ago. They’re now an electoral irrelevance, largely supplanted by UKIP.

I think there will always be a space for a party to the right of the Tories in UK politics but it often ends in failure and recriminations, to be replaced by another right wing party which in turn eventually implodes.

It remains to be seen if UKIP’s vote holds up in the years to come. The 2017 EU referendum will be a defining moment for the party.


----------



## bemused (May 8, 2015)

Poi E said:


> A decent electoral system would help.
> 
> Wonder if Sturgeon will put something in the SNP manifesto for 2016 about certain red lines that could hint hint trigger a new Indy ref. Something like trident. If Labour/Tory press ahead then they look like they'd rather have trident than the union. Neither has any sway North of the border so a big yes to independence.



I don't think she wants a referendum at the moment. I think she wants full budgetary control to prove that the country can fund itself first. I suspect she'll get that and at the same time the Tories will pass the law that bans Scottish MPs voting on English only laws.


----------



## bemused (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> It remains to be seen if UKIP’s vote holds up in the years to come. The 2017 EU referendum will be a defining moment for the party.



If they replace Farage with Suzanne Evans I could see them doing quite well. Farage was a dog whistle she is way more user friendly.


----------



## happie chappie (May 8, 2015)

bemused said:


> If they replace Farage with Suzanne Evans I could see them doing quite well. Farage was a dog whistle she is way more user friendly.



If people were attracted to Farage’s “bloke in the pub” image (and I think they were) I’m not sure whether Evans will do any better.

In fact I think she’ll do worse as I doubt she’s as media friendly.

In many ways Farage was the story as much as UKIP’s policies and he will be a very hard act to follow.

Populist leader + populist policies = electoral success.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> Exactly the same could have been of the BNP a few years ago. They’re now an electoral irrelevance, largely supplanted by UKIP.
> 
> I think there will always be a space for a party to the right of the Tories in UK politics but it often ends in failure and recriminations, to be replaced by another right wing party which in turn eventually implodes.
> 
> It remains to be seen if UKIP’s vote holds up in the years to come. The 2017 EU referendum will be a defining moment for the party.



Tbh I think the BNP comparison ceased to be useful a few years ago.  These days UKIP are bigger, better organised and better funded than the BNP ever were, and they appeal to a wider cross-section of people as well. It may be that they will come apart in the next couple of years, but I doubt it.  It's true that the EU referendum is important for them and if the result is a resounding 'stay in' then that might well damage them badly, but any other result is likely to work in their favour.  After all, the Scottish independence referendum should indicate that a close referendum result needn't settle an issue one way or t'other.

Meanwhile, an expat mate of mine put the election result crudely but accurate on Facebook earlier: 'I'm seeing loads of Brits talking about lubing up ready for a shafting.  You won't get the chance to lube up: the Tories are going in dry.'


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Remember Major, '92-'97? It'll be like that, but far more publicised, and far more bloody.



Will it include a back to basics campaign ruined by this kind of amusing scandal? I do hope so, was one of my favourite things that's ever happened last time around.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2015)

The only meaningful act of class struggle I can think of today is to issue all Tory MPs with a kettle flex, bin liner and an orange.


----------



## happie chappie (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Tbh I think the BNP comparison ceased to be useful a few years ago.  These days UKIP are bigger, better organised and better funded than the BNP ever were, and they appeal to a wider cross-section of people as well. It may be that they will come apart in the next couple of years, but I doubt it.  It's true that the EU referendum is important for them and if the result is a resounding 'stay in' then that might well damage them badly, but any other result is likely to work in their favour.  After all, the Scottish independence referendum should indicate that a close referendum result needn't settle an issue one way or t'other.'



The BNP _were_ getting bigger, they w_ere_ getting more organised and they _were_ getting better funded. But it all imploded as far right parties in the UK tend to do.

In many ways UKIP’s future isn’t in its own hands. How Cameron handles the EU negotiations and subsequent referendum will be the key determinant.

Let’s say, for example, the UK votes to leave the EU (unlikely in my opinion, but entirely possible) what happens to UKIP then? They’re a busted flush.

If Cameron secures a deal acceptable to the right of his party and backs staying in (supported by all the other main parties bar UKIP) and we do vote stay in the EU, as I think we will by a pretty large majority, I’m not sure they’ll be any appetite at all for another referendum shortly after.

Especially as I think the campaign will be a pretty bruising affair, just as it was in Scotland.


----------



## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

Hi from Red Morningside, Scotland's Labour heartland


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

I guess the fun comes if Cameron does _not_ secure a deal acceptable to the right of his party. Rather likely, I think.


----------



## David Clapson (May 8, 2015)

I wonder how many Scottish seats Miliband lost the other day when he said he wouldn't work with Sturgeon? That made a lot of Scots so angry...I'm sure that boosted their turnout.


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## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

She can do what she wants.


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## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> I wonder how many Scottish seats Miliband lost the other day when he said he wouldn't work with Sturgeon? That made a lot of Scots so angry...I'm sure that boosted their turnout.


None. Already gone.


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## butchersapron (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I guess the fun comes if Cameron does _not_ secure a deal acceptable to the right of his party. Rather likely, I think.


Deal?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Deal?


Sorry, that was a reply to happie chappie. I assumed they were talking about Cameron getting some kind of concession from the EU in return for staying in.


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## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Sorry, that was a reply to happie chappie. I assumed they were talking about Cameron getting some kind of concession from the EU in return for staying in.


when replying to someone it helps to quote them in case someone's been really fucking inconvenient and posted while you were typing, thus making it look like you're responding to someone else.


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## happie chappie (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I guess the fun comes if Cameron does _not_ secure a deal acceptable to the right of his party. Rather likely, I think.



Whatever deal Cameron secures it will never be good enough to satisfy the hard-line Euro sceptics but I think it will be good enough to satisfy enough Tory MPs for him to campaign to stay in a reformed EU, which is his default position.

That doesn’t mean they’ll not be internal splits in the Tory party (and even some resignations amongst junior ministers and/or a few defections to UKIP) but he’s clever enough to engineer a deal that will satisfy enough of his own backbenchers to carry the day.

His real difficulty would have occurred if he hadn’t secured a majority and was held hostage to a right wing caucus who has never liked him.

Now he’s the returning hero in the eyes of almost everyone in the party and, for the time being at least, he can do no wrong in their eyes.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

SpineyNorman said:


> Will it include a back to basics campaign ruined by this kind of amusing scandal? I do hope so, was one of my favourite things that's ever happened last time around.



Laugh? I nearly choked to death on a satsuma!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

Wilf said:


> The only meaningful act of class struggle I can think of today is to issue all Tory MPs with a kettle flex, bin liner and an orange.



And a pair of stockings. Don't forget the stockings!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> Whatever deal Cameron secures it will never be good enough to satisfy the hard-line Euro sceptics but I think it will be good enough to satisfy enough Tory MPs for him to campaign to stay in a reformed EU, which is his default position.
> 
> That doesn’t mean they’ll not be internal splits in the Tory party (and even some resignations amongst junior ministers and/or a few defections to UKIP) but he’s clever enough to engineer a deal that will satisfy enough of his own backbenchers to carry the day.
> 
> ...


yeh. people could go to ukip. but both mark reckless and douglas carswell have really set down a precedent other defectors may find it hard to ignore, resigning to force a by-election.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> Whatever deal Cameron secures it will never be good enough to satisfy the hard-line Euro sceptics but I think it will be good enough to satisfy enough Tory MPs for him to campaign to stay in a reformed EU, which is his default position..


Yeah, it will be a test of the tory party. Lots of new faces since the 90s, of course, so there may be less vehement anti-Europe feeling. Don't know. How many of the firm anti-EUers are there left?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah, it will be a test of the tory party. Lots of new faces since the 90s, of course, so there may be less vehement anti-Europe feeling. Don't know. How many of the firm anti-EUers are there left?


yes cos obviously neither douglas carswell nor mark reckless had strong feelings on the subject


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## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah, it will be a test of the tory party. Lots of new faces since the 90s, of course, so there may be less vehement anti-Europe feeling. Don't know. How many of the firm anti-EUers are there left?


around 200 apparently...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-now-favour-british-exit-from-eu-9893245.html


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## weepiper (May 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> None. Already gone.


how quickly everyone else seems to have forgotten


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## happie chappie (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. people could go to ukip. but both mark reckless and douglas carswell have really set down a precedent other defectors may find it hard to ignore, resigning to force a by-election.



One of the lessons of the election is that, for the time being at least, a Tory defecting to UKIP is likely to lose his/her seat. Only Carswell remains and he benefitted from a strong personal vote.

While one or two Tory MPs may jump ship as a matter of principle over Europe, facing with losing their seat, many others will prefer to sit tight, waiting to see which way the wind blows with regard to the referendum.

My money is, and remains, on a fairly decisive vote in favour of staying in.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> The BNP _were_ getting bigger, they w_ere_ getting more organised and they _were_ getting better funded. But it all imploded as far right parties in the UK tend to do.



That's true, but tbh saying that right wing parties tend to implode strikes me as a bit complacent: there's nothing to say they _will_ implode.  In any case, I don't think the BNP would ever have been able to attract the wealthy donors and impeccably Tory defectors that UKIP have, and frankly for some potential voters they were still saddled with the association with the likes of the National Front, in a way the Kippers aren't.  



> In many ways UKIP’s future isn’t in its own hands. How Cameron handles the EU negotiations and subsequent referendum will be the key determinant.
> 
> Let’s say, for example, the UK votes to leave the EU (unlikely in my opinion, but entirely possible) what happens to UKIP then? They’re a busted flush.
> 
> ...



Can't disagree with much of that, except that I reckon Cameron will be very hard pressed indeed to come up with EU deal enough to shut all of the backbenchers up, since the more swivel-eyed ones won't be content with anything short of Brexit.  Potentially that could help UKIP, if they end up picking up more defectors.  

I have my doubts that the UK will vote to leave the EU too, but IMO it could well be close, and although you may well be right that there'd be no appetite for another referendum soon after a first, like the Scottish referendum it may well serve to keep the issue on the boil.  Again, that would probably work in their favour.  You're right that a vote to leave would pull the rug out from underneath them.  Tbh though that's a scenario I'd rather not even think about right now!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> One of the lessons of the election is that, for the time being at least, a Tory defecting to UKIP is likely to lose his/her seat. Only Carswell remains and he benefitted from a strong personal vote.
> 
> While one or two Tory MPs may jump ship as a matter of principle over Europe, facing with losing their seat, many others will prefer to sit tight, waiting to see which way the wind blows with regard to the referendum.
> 
> My money is, and remains, on a fairly decisive vote in favour of staying in.


tbh, I would have thought a couple of really awkward tories jumping to UKIP over this might suit Cameron just fine.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> tbh, I would have thought a couple of really awkward tories jumping to UKIP over this might suit Cameron just fine.



Not with such a slender majority.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

Oh god. 

He's got 231 seats, so can afford to lose five and keep a majority, yes?


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Oh god.
> 
> He's got 231 seats, so can afford to lose five and keep a majority, yes?



He's got 331: 326 is a majority.  Major's lead was reckoned to be uncomfortably thin back in the early 90s, and that was 21...


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## smokedout (May 8, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> But how many would actually publish? Half the press have the Tories in their pockets



the other half?


----------



## happie chappie (May 8, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> Can't disagree with much of that, except that I reckon Cameron will be very hard pressed indeed to come up with EU deal enough to shut all of the backbenchers up, since the more swivel-eyed ones won't be content with anything short of Brexit.  Potentially that could help UKIP, if they end up picking up more defectors.
> 
> I have my doubts that the UK will vote to leave the EU too, but IMO it could well be close, and although you may well be right that there'd be no appetite for another referendum soon after a first, like the Scottish referendum it may well serve to keep the issue on the boil.  Again, that would probably work in their favour.  You're right that a vote to leave would pull the rug out from underneath them.  Tbh though that's a scenario I'd rather not even think about right now!



I think he will secure a deal for several reasons, not least because the rest of the EU (especially Germany and France) will want to do all they reasonably can to keep Britain in. It may be game of chicken, but there will be a deal on the table. Of that I have no doubt.

As to the right of the party - some will want us to leave no matter what. But they will be a minority of a minority of both MPs and political parties.

The new intake?

Not sure how Euro sceptic they are but if Cameron and Osborne are such slick political operators as people say then Central Office would have been vetting candidates to ensure any potential trouble-makers were weeded out before they got anywhere near the ballot paper.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> I think he will secure a deal for several reasons, not least because the rest of the EU (especially Germany and France) will want to do all they reasonably can to keep Britain in. It may be game of chicken, but there will be a deal on the table. Of that I have no doubt.
> 
> As to the right of the party - some will want us to leave no matter what. But they will be a minority of a minority of both MPs and political parties.
> 
> ...


if there were apparently 200 eurosceptics among the tory ranks favouring a british exit in october i doubt their number has been greatly diminished by the increased number of tory mps now.


----------



## Roadkill (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> I think he will secure a deal for several reasons, not least because the rest of the EU (especially Germany and France) will want to do all they reasonably can to keep Britain in. It may be game of chicken, but there will be a deal on the table. Of that I have no doubt.
> 
> As to the right of the party - some will want us to leave no matter what. But they will be a minority of a minority of both MPs and political parties.



Oh yes, I'm sure a deal of some sort will be worked out, but as you say, some will want us to leave regardless of how 'good' it is.  There don't need to be all that many of them to cause Cameron a headache with a majority of 5.



> The new intake?
> 
> Not sure how Euro sceptic they are but if Cameron and Osborne are such slick political operators as people say then Central Office would have been vetting candidates to ensure any potential trouble-makers were weeded out before they got anywhere near the ballot paper.



True, I suspect, though hopefully a few will show a bit of independence.  In the end, fractious backbenchers are the only real hope we've got for fucking up Cameron's second term - for the next couple of years anyway.


----------



## Duncan2 (May 8, 2015)

Europe would seem to be the only thing that now stands between the Tories and absolute power.Some of them are bound to go for it (Brexit I mean)


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Duncan2 said:


> Europe would seem to be the only thing that now stands between the Tories and absolute power.Some of them are bound to go for it (Brexit I mean)


not to mention the queen.


----------



## happie chappie (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if there were apparently 200 eurosceptics among the tory ranks favouring a british exit in october i doubt their number has been greatly diminished by the increased number of tory mps now.



Possibly - although the figure of 200 would depend on the question they were actually asked in the survey (we now know - opinion polls can be very wrong). And then there's the type of deal Cameron will secure. That's bound to chip away at the softer end of the Euro sceptic block. And there are always other ways of buying off/threatening members of the awkward squad.

That's not to say it will be all plain sailing for Cameron as Europe is, and always has been, a fractious issue for the party.

But Cameron is in a much stronger position now to secure a deal and win a referendum than even he dared hope 24 hours ago.

eta - it appears that the figure wasn't actually a poll but an estimate by Bill Cash. I'm not sure how much credence I'd give to it.

It was also the figure in October when, as the article suggests, many sitting Tory MPs were worried about losing their seats to UKIP. In the end none did. That may have done quite a bit to calm nerves. I suspect that figure may have changed.


----------



## Duncan2 (May 8, 2015)

Europe and the queen obviously and not necessarily in that order.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)




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## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> Let’s say, for example, the UK votes to leave the EU (unlikely in my opinion, but entirely possible) what happens to UKIP then? They’re a busted flush.



Did a No vote in the indyref render the SNP a busted flush? If UKIP play a strong role in calling for an exit and get people on board for their cause, these people might stick with them afterwards whichever way the result goes. That could be a significant movement.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Did a No vote in the indyref render the SNP a busted flush? If UKIP play a strong role in calling for an exit and get people on board for their cause, these people might stick with them afterwards whichever way the result goes. That could be a significant movement.


let's see where ukip are in two years time.


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2015)

Osborne, a man who imo really can be given the epitaph, evil, is to be given the 'honorific' title of First Secretary Of State.


----------



## JHE (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> Osborne, a man who imo really can be given the epitaph, evil...



not yet.  he has to die first


----------



## prunus (May 8, 2015)

JHE said:


> not yet.  he has to die first



From your lips to god's ears.


----------



## Corax (May 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 71285


Yeah, and there'll be no top-down reorganisation of the NHS last time apparently.

What a cunt.

(him, not you PM!)


----------



## Corax (May 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> Osborne, *a man who imo really can be given the epitaph, evil*, is to be given the 'honorific' title of First Secretary Of State.


Won't him and IDS have to fight for that title, or will it be a demonic coalition?


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Of course, politics is shite. But the idea that you work out which party will be better for you personally by doing a calculation based on their declared policies isn't politics as I understand it, not if your calculation doesn't even consider what those policies will also do to others.
> 
> The two are linked, of course - it is precisely this kind of apolitical voter that both parties aim their campaigns at.



TBF where was the party that offered genuine alternatives to austerity? who offered to protect the weak and vulnerable, given both sides commitment to "hard working families" with no mention of those who haven't got a hope of joining that group?
We had the option of Tory or Tory light ( I will not use the word 'lite') 
Given the limited options open to voters and Sturgeons comments about holding the balance of power, Labour got what they deserved, "the fuck you jack, I'm alright mentality" is alive and kicking here in the UK.
When Labour gives up on the middle classes and being part of the metropolitan elite, when they pledge to renationalise the utilities and railways then they'll get me vote.


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

bemused said:


> I don't think she wants a referendum at the moment. I think she wants full budgetary control to prove that the country can fund itself first. I suspect she'll get that and at the same time the Tories will pass the law that bans Scottish MPs voting on English only laws.



They now seem to have changed their minds on that, they no longer want full fiscal autonomy but fiscal independence, no prizes for guessing why they have moved the goal posts.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

coley said:


> TBF where was the party that offered genuine alternatives to austerity? who offered to protect the weak and vulnerable,?.


The Socialist Party candidate in my constituency did.

He lost his deposit. 

My point was a little different - not that you should vote Labour or whatever if you're anti-austerity, but that you should not in any circumstances consider voting Tory.


----------



## JHE (May 8, 2015)

prunus said:


> From your lips to god's ears.


My aunt, a Dominican nun, explained to me that God answers all prayers, but often the answer is 'no'.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 8, 2015)

Corax said:


> Won't him and IDS have to fight for that title, or will it be a demonic coalition?



I thought we'd settled that IDS was criminally stupid and did evil things as a result, while Osborne is actually fucking scum (who probably eggs IDS on)


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah, it will be a test of the tory party. Lots of new faces since the 90s, of course, so there may be less vehement anti-Europe feeling. Don't know. How many of the firm anti-EUers are there left?



Given the upswell in anti-EU support in the party (did you not keep half an ear open to the Tory conference for the last couple of years?), I'd say that at least a third of the Parliamentary Conservative Party are openly anti, and possibly another third are cryptos who'll out themselves if the anti-Euro bus looks worth riding. Back in the '90s there was still a functioning (though shrinking) "one nation" wing of Conservatism. This time round, the wing barely exists.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Given the upswell in anti-EU support in the party (did you not keep half an ear open to the Tory conference for the last couple of years?), I'd say that at least a third of the Parliamentary Conservative Party are openly anti, and possibly another third are cryptos who'll out themselves if the anti-Euro bus looks worth riding. Back in the '90s there was still a functioning (though shrinking) "one nation" wing of Conservatism. This time round, the wing barely exists.


Ok. It was a genuine q - I have lost track of the crazy wing of the tory party. Used to know a few of the faces. 

It may only be schadenfreude on my part to be pleased if this is true. Not totally sure that it helps us.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ok. It was a genuine q - I have lost track of the crazy wing of the tory party. Used to know a few of the faces.
> 
> It may only be schadenfreude on my part to be pleased if this is true. Not totally sure that it helps us.



Part of why people don't get the anti-EU thing, is that proponents tend to not be as openly crazy and LOUD as Cash, Gorman and the rest of Major's awkward squad were. They've even focused to some degree on trying to make a political case that isn't constructed around prejudice, although as it appears to in part be constructed around a grovelling Atlanticism, I'm not sure it's *much* better than the arguments made by the bonkers wing.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2015)

Why did you vote Tory?

Have fun


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 8, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Part of why people don't get the anti-EU thing, is that proponents tend to not be as openly crazy and LOUD as Cash, Gorman and the rest of Major's awkward squad were. They've even focused to some degree on trying to make a political case that isn't constructed around prejudice, although as it appears to in part be constructed around a grovelling Atlanticism, I'm not sure it's *much* better than the arguments made by the bonkers wing.


Yeah, that makes sense, tbh. I'd never heard of Carswell before he defected, for instance, but although he looks like the archetypal swivel-eyed loon, he is rather softly spoken. He's not a Cash or Gorman in that regard.


----------



## ska invita (May 8, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> I think he will secure a deal for several reasons, not least because the rest of the EU (especially Germany and France) will want to do all they reasonably can to keep Britain in. It may be game of chicken, but there will be a deal on the table. Of that I have no doubt.


I thought this was interesting:

"
Soon after the British election results were known, French President Francois Hollande invited David Cameron to Paris to talk, he said, about the EU, among other things.

France will hope to persuade David Cameron that he does not need treaty change to re-shape Britain's relationship with the EU.

This is less out of French love for the EU project as it stands and more about the fear of populists at home.

Any change to EU treaties has to be put to the people of France in a referendum.

The full force of the popular euro-sceptic, anti-immigrant National Front would be unleashed - terribly close to France's presidential election in which the National Front's leader is a strong contender (though not the favourite).

David Cameron's timetable of 2017 for a UK referendum on the EU also clashes with parliamentary elections in Germany."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32660871


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 8, 2015)

discussion on the telly about the opinion polls having been wrong.

i'm sure he has just clarified that he said "shy tories" not "shite tories"...


----------



## coley (May 8, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The Socialist Party candidate in my constituency did.
> 
> He lost his deposit.
> 
> My point was a little different - not that you should vote Labour or whatever if you're anti-austerity, but that you should not in any circumstances consider voting Tory.


Aye whey, we seem to be in a lifeboat that is getting progressively smaller.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 8, 2015)

A friend put this up on Facebook today (his own account, not a cut and paste) and it's broken me a bit. This is the price of austerity, where the burden of the financial crisis falls whilst estate agencies are letting off the fireworks.



> _It's embarrassing to suddenly feel yourself crying in front of another person at work.
> 
> An hour in, an Iranian refugee. What she went through, I won't repeat, but she must, over and over, to government departments forever. Post traumatic stress disorder, manifesting in her wrist rubber band, pull and release, pull and release, pull and release, over deep scars and stitches on both. Her refugee status granted 4 years ago, thank god, but her family, no such luck. Now, here, alone.
> 
> ...


----------



## ibilly99 (May 8, 2015)

Prescient words from the past ....


----------



## coley (May 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if there were apparently 200 eurosceptics among the tory ranks favouring a british exit in october i doubt their number has been greatly diminished by the increased number of tory mps now.


Cameron's going to have a few 'Major moments'?  
Now if my understanding is right,  given the fixed parliamentary  term,Cameron hasn't got the option of calling a mid term ' back me or else' election?
Hubble bubble, crack on


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 9, 2015)

coley said:


> Now if my understanding is right, given the fixed parliamentary term,Cameron hasn't got the option of calling a mid term ' back me or else' election?



Depends

The 'back me or else' thing Major did was to resign as party leader (and stand for re-election)

I think the fixed term thing does still have an emergency exit clause if the government of the day loses a confidence vote


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Depends
> 
> The 'back me or else' thing Major did was to resign as party leader (and stand for re-election)
> 
> I think the fixed term thing does still have an emergency exit clause if the government of the day loses a confidence vote


One possible solution I can see would be Cameron allowing dissent over the EU. He makes a deal with France and Germany and presents it as the best thing to do, names a date for a simple in/out vote, but allows all his MPs to campaign yes/no as they see fit. It could backfire, but if he wins the referendum, he's silenced all his eurosceptic MPs for good.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> One possible solution I can see would be Cameron allowing dissent over the EU. He makes a deal with France and Germany and presents it as the best thing to do, names a date for a simple in/out vote, but allows all his MPs to campaign yes/no as they see fit. It could backfire, but if he wins the referendum, he's silenced all his eurosceptic MPs for good.



From what I gather that's how the 1975 one worked (I am a bit young to remember it in detail - I remember a fair amount of campaigning to vote either yes or no, but being faintly puzzled about what the question was.)


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Why did you vote Tory?
> 
> Have fun




Newsnight interviewed an ex miner in Nuneaton and a female voter who came from three generations of labour voters, they didn't go into detail, but these were not monsters, greedy bastards, etc are far as I could make out.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Oh, and the media definitely played some part in the tory victory, Evan was trying to make out on Newsnight, that Cameron had run a moderate govt run from the centre, and allowed the Tory on it to say it will continue on the path, its as if food banks, mass inequality, and suicides didn't exist.

Evan was referring mostly I think to social reforms like gay marriage.

oh, and why didn't labour highlight the shocking toll of the welfare reforms, more,


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> discussion on the telly about the opinion polls having been wrong.
> 
> i'm sure he has just clarified that he said "shy tories" not "shite tories"...




'Shire Tories' sadly


----------



## rioted (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> oh, and why didn't labour highlight the shocking toll of the welfare reforms, more,


Because they've been targetting scroungers for years?


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> A friend put this up on Facebook today (his own account, not a cut and paste) and it's broken me a bit. This is the price of austerity, where the burden of the financial crisis falls whilst estate agencies are letting off the fireworks.



Labour to its eternal shame did not really highlight the impact of the reforms, thinking maybe quite rightly, it would be crucified by the right wing media.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

rioted said:


> Because they've been targetting scroungers for years?




that's what I mean, they created the structures and the narratives,

I wonder how they will respond to the new series of Benefit St, the Tories and the media will be all over it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> that's what I mean, they created the structures and the narratives,.


Yep, they facilitated this shit. Thatcher facilitated Blair, then Blair facilitated Cameron. It's depressing as hell.

There's a big part of me that thinks Labour needs to go, to be destroyed, the unions disengaging and starting over.


----------



## rioted (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> There's a big part of me that thinks Labour needs to go, to be destroyed, the unions disengaging and starting over.


You've caught up with my position in 1968!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

rioted said:


> You've caught up with my position in 1968!


I'm a bit slow sometimes.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Why did you vote Tory?
> 
> Have fun






> Finally - If we can sort this fucking deficit out, and bring in a surplus budget, if we kill off debt - we can free ourselves of around 34 billion in interest repayments a year. That's like our entire welfare budget. Think of what we can do with that money unlocked?



Some of the posters who voted Tory on there genuinely seem to think that when the books are balanced, decent and substantial benefits, etc, will be restored, Cameron has said that he 'wants/will defund the welfare state, so where did they get that idea from?


----------



## coley (May 9, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> From what I gather that's how the 1975 one worked (I am a bit young to remember it in detail - I remember a fair amount of campaigning to vote either yes or no, but being faintly puzzled about what the question was.)


In short we were lied to, we were asked to vote on a 'common market' not a political union.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

> I'm 19, I voted tory because of my occupation and for my future. I aspire to earn a high salary, fact is under a Labour government, my aspirations are lowered because I would be taxed an obsurd amount for what I will have worked bloody hard for. Nobody is going to aspire to be successful/wealthy if they know they are going to be taxed for half of it.



The authentic voice of a Tory(Boy)

leaving side the tory boy, some of those who voted Tory on that site, sound like you would see them at festivals, tech gatherings, etc, not social misfits.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> The authentic voice of a Tory(Boy)



i love it when they claimed to have 'worked bloody hard', as if the rest of the population picking cases twelve hours a day in a warehouse or cleaning the shit off a pensioner's sheets are some sort of slackers.  Most of these cunts haven't got the remotest fucking idea what hard work is.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

> Because I think a lot of the hysterical horror stories on here about the tories are WAAAY overblown. The Tories aren't that bad. They don't hate the poor, they won't privatise the NHS, Thatcher isn't going to be resurrected to steal everyones milk. In fact on the political spectrum I think they are pretty much aligned with Labour except they are more economically competent.





whats coming through on the reddit, which is strangely very amiable, is that the soft tories on there seem to have no awareness of the awful lives of many people at the moment:, foodbanks, sanctions, suicides harassment, etc. Lots seem to be ex students who voted lib dem in 2010.


----------



## coley (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> Newsnight interviewed an ex miner in Nuneaton and a female voter who came from three generations of labour voters, they didn't go into detail, but these were not monsters, greedy bastards, etc are far as I could make out.




I'm an ex miner and come from three generations of labour voters and I still couldn't bring mesel to vote for the bastards, but neither could I vote for 'labour' those bastards need to change their name ASAP 
I detest the Tories, but the present ' Labour Party' I detest even more, the Tories are at least honest in their ambitions to transfer the public wealth to the private sector, 'labour' seems quite happy to do the same but to overlay it with some mild and vague 'regulations'

Fuck it, it's been a long and disappointing day, mebbes in days to come the Labour Party will remember what it is supposed to represent, though I don't hold me hopes up


----------



## little_legs (May 9, 2015)

At work today:

24 yo female: I did not vote because I don't give a shit. Who won anyway?

26 yo female: I voted Conservative. I think they are doing the right thing for people who work and because I hate the poor. Just look at them, living off the state thinking they are entitled to everything. Fuck them.

29 yo male: I voted Green, seemed like the right choice.

32 yo female: Labour. I am dreading the future.

53 yo male: I am not telling you.

19 yo apprentice: Why do they call David Cameron a Tory?

ARE BRITAIN.


----------



## oryx (May 9, 2015)

little_legs said:


> 26 yo female: I voted Conservative. I think they are doing the right thing for people who work and because I hate the poor. Just look at them, living off the state thinking they are entitled to everything. Fuck them.



What an absolute cunt.


----------



## coley (May 9, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> i love it when they claimed to have 'worked bloody hard', as if the rest of the population picking cases twelve hours a day in a warehouse or cleaning the shit off a pensioner's sheets are some sort of slackers.  Most of these cunts haven't got the remotest fucking idea what hard work is.


I would love to hear his version of a 'hard days work'


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 9, 2015)

little_legs said:


> At work today:
> 
> 24 yo female: I did not vote because I don't give a shit. Who won anyway?
> 
> ...


Who are Britain? What a silly question.


----------



## little_legs (May 9, 2015)

oryx said:


> What an absolute cunt.



With a degree in Sociology, speaks fluent French. 2nd generation BBC. Strikes me as an intelligent person. Very ambitious, with common sense. Go figure.


----------



## little_legs (May 9, 2015)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Who are Britain? What a silly question.


pfffttt


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

> Usually I vote for a leftist party. Much like reddit, I believe in people and want the best for everyone. This is what Labour used to stand for in my opinion.
> 
> However, Labour have essential become Tory-lite over the past decade or so and I lost faith. I decided I'd vote for Conservative as we need a strong government, in quite difficult times.
> 
> ...



these are fascinating posts, does this guy really know what he has done, he has the right of course to vote for who he wants, but what a bizarre rationalisation.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

oryx said:


> What an absolute cunt.




Social Darwinist, there are more of them than you think.

btw, reading those posts it does seem there was much more support for the coalition then the polls ever manifested.


----------



## oryx (May 9, 2015)

little_legs said:


> With a degree in Sociology, speaks fluent French. 2nd generation BBC. Strikes me as an intelligent person. Very ambitious, with common sense. Go figure.



You can't be intelligent and say you have a blanket hatred of poor people. The two aren't compatible.

Don't envy you working with her.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

I think that these people believe in 'stability', I wonder what they will think when the social fabric really starts to fray and becomes visible, on the streets.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

> Voted Lib Dem, but 90% of the girls at my boarding school voted Tory. I think it is mostly because their parents are all very wealthy and pro-tory.



no such thing as class in society is there?


----------



## little_legs (May 9, 2015)

oryx said:


> You can't be intelligent and say you have a blanket hatred of poor people. The two aren't compatible.
> 
> Don't envy you working with her.



I am sure they don't mean hate as in truly hate. Dislike probably, or seriously annoyed with. 

The thing is that she is very good with everyone in the office, helpful, and funny. 

This gig is only until Aug 1. They cut the funding.


----------



## coley (May 9, 2015)

little_legs said:


> With a degree in Sociology, speaks fluent French. 2nd generation BBC. Strikes me as an intelligent person. Very ambitious, with common sense. Go figure.



Aye, but without an ounce of compassion, but you seem to admire her,  I hope you are never in a position where you will depend on the likes of her for your continued existence, then again.....


----------



## little_legs (May 9, 2015)

coley said:


> Aye, but without an ounce of compassion, but you seem to admire her,  I hope you are never in a position where you will depend on the likes of her for your continued existence, then again.....


Don't put words in my mouth, I never said I admire her. I think her position is despicable. But her view is real and she is not an idiot who just blurts things.


----------



## kabbes (May 9, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Why did you vote Tory?
> 
> Have fun


That's interesting.

England as a whole does seem to me to be pretty right wing on a low level basis.  The fundamental narrative is one of putting "the economy" (whatever the hell that is) first and foremost.  So often, there seems to be a terror of the idea of the nation's finances being anything other than as robust as possible.  There is an army of small business owners (Napoleon's "nation of shopkeepers") that kick against regulation or tax, even when its result would actually be to their personal benefit in the long run.

Yes yes, 33% don't vote.  But I don't see any evidence that any great proportion of that 33% actually think any differently, on the whole.  Some of them are disgusted by the system, but there's no reason to think that this proportion is any bigger than the proportion that vote for the proper left wing.

And yes, nearly half of those who do vote don't vote for Tory, UKIP or Lib Dem. But half do.  And of the half that don't, a lot still buy into the same neoliberal perspective even though they vote Labour.  That's why we can have a Labour to Tory swing.  If you weren't right wing in nature, you'd never consider doing that.

That generic right wing narrative has been particularly allowed to foster from the 80s onwards by a well organised neoliberal assault on the collective conscience.  Alternatives have been fragmented and incoherently presented by a media with vested interests in maintaining the neoliberal perspective.

There are islands of opinion that are not focused first and foremost on the economy but that sea of blue that makes up England must have some kind of root cause.

Only 35% of voters have got the government they wanted.  But I'd say that a lot more than half have got the fundamental political philosophy that they wanted.  And I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to address this, except very, very slowly.


----------



## Batboy (May 9, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> A few years ago I'd have agreed with you, and I still think that if Farage had been killed in that plane crash the Kippers probably wouldn't have got as far as they have, but the genie is out of the bottle now.  They've got a much more coherent organisation, much more money, a much more identifiable brand, a solid voter base and a sense of momentum.  It's not beyond the bounds of possibility it could all fall apart, but my guess is that unless they choose a complete idiot as their next leader then they're here to stay.
> 
> Not that I'm not smirking about Farage falling flat on his stupid face, of course.



I liken UKIP to the Social Democrats in the eighties (disaffected centre ground Labour) except they are disaffected Tories, in the end the social Democrats absorbed themselves with the Liberal Party. I don't see UKIP progressing far beyond where they are now and if anything they could subside. The difficulty they have is the only party they could absorb into is the Conservatives, but that is not going to happen. Farages days as a politician are I feel numbered, he was beginning to struggle with some of the hounding, backlash and criticism.


----------



## bi0boy (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> these are fascinating posts, does this guy really know what he has done, he has the right of course to vote for who he wants, but what a bizarre rationalisation.



I know someone who said much the same thing. They saw the two parties as very similar, the Tories as slightly nastier but more competent with the finances. She said there's no point voting Labour in for slightly nicer welfare cuts if they're a bit more likely to produce less economic growth. The Tory message of not being able to have a well-funded NHS without a strong economy seems to have hit home.


----------



## gentlegreen (May 9, 2015)

A couple of Youtubers - a historian and a philosopher analyse what happened for 3 hours.



Spoiler: youtube video


----------



## Belushi (May 9, 2015)

The result is only just sinking in with me, another 5 years of Tory rule, with a bloody majority this time, haven't felt so despondent about the future of the country since '92.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> Oh, and the media definitely played some part in the tory victory, Evan was trying to make out on Newsnight, that Cameron had run a moderate govt run from the centre, and allowed the Tory on it to say it will continue on the path, its as if food banks, mass inequality, and suicides didn't exist.
> 
> Evan was referring mostly I think to social reforms like gay marriage.
> 
> oh, and why didn't labour highlight the shocking toll of the welfare reforms, more,


Who is Evan? Why are you mating him?


----------



## ska invita (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> oh, and why didn't labour highlight the shocking toll of the welfare reforms, more,


because they both started those reforms in blair/brown and bragged about taking them further still (at their last conference). Sadly these reforms are popular with the majority of voters


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep, they facilitated this shit. Thatcher facilitated Blair, then Blair facilitated Cameron. It's depressing as hell.
> 
> There's a big part of me that thinks Labour needs to go, to be destroyed, the unions disengaging and starting over.


Oh yes. The unions are clean hand decent left wing. What is this fantasy world?


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> The authentic voice of a Tory(Boy)
> 
> leaving side the tory boy, some of those who voted Tory on that site, sound like you would see them at festivals, tech gatherings, etc, not social misfits.


These people have side always existed. You sound shocked to have finally came across them. You're fifty plus ffs


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

kabbes said:


> That's interesting.
> 
> England as a whole does seem to me to be pretty right wing on a low level basis.  The fundamental narrative is one of putting "the economy" (whatever the hell that is) first and foremost.  So often, there seems to be a terror of the idea of the nation's finances being anything other than as robust as possible.  There is an army of small business owners (Napoleon's "nation of shopkeepers") that kick against regulation or tax, even when its result would actually be to their personal benefit in the long run.
> 
> ...


And with your finger out. Disgusting post.


----------



## killer b (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> One possible solution I can see would be Cameron allowing dissent over the EU. He makes a deal with France and Germany and presents it as the best thing to do, names a date for a simple in/out vote, but allows all his MPs to campaign yes/no as they see fit. It could backfire, but if he wins the referendum, he's silenced all his eurosceptic MPs for good.


What makes you think that? Surely the most recent example of a referendum demonstrates the precise opposite...


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

Unless the referendum is to leave he's shutting up precisely no back benchers.
In fact, he's making a problem that won't go away. They're not joking, the anti eu lot.


----------



## chilango (May 9, 2015)

Hmmm. A snapshot of voters (well of those I talked to over lunch) from work:

Mid-20s Graduate 1: Labour 

Mid-20s Graduate 2: Labour (Green Party member but voted Labour because of something Owen Jones wrote!)

Mid-30s Manager: Labour (but expressed suspicion that the Conservatives would be "better for the economy)

Early 60s academic: Labour

Late 30s teacher: Green

Late 30s Manager: Conservative (but Green in the locals)

Reflects the local area well, solid Labour with a strong (and growing) Green Party presence. Neighbouring ward solid Green, with Labour a strong but fading second. My ward saw 1600 Labour votes, 800 Green votes and the Lib Dems and UKIP barely registering...but

....but...900 Conservative votes "from nowhere". 

No campaigning, no activists, no posters. No presence at all. i suspect the students contributed a big chunk of that Tory vote, but it still surprised me.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 9, 2015)

There's a young labourer at work who voted Tory (and helped them gain a seat from Labour) and I decided yesterday that the vermin majority was his fault and his fault alone. He's just a brown nosing cunt who doffs his cap and says yes sir when the owner is whining about having to pay tax on the money he's making on the backs of his staff abd the tax payer and hes always whining about 'scroungers'. Had a curry night before last and all day yesterday I kept farting in his face when he was bent down working. I also made him take up a manhole cover and rod a load if shit out of the soil pipes even though it wasn't even blocked. Was it bullying? Probably. But it was a kind of righteous bullying that gave me a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 9, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Only 35% of voters have got the government they wanted.  But I'd say that a lot more than half have got the fundamental political philosophy that they wanted.  And I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to address this, except very, very slowly.



I still think that the Blair administration proved that it is possible to have progressive politics that appeals to people who aspire to owning a conservatory. Let's list out the achievements again: minimum wage, sure start centres, civil partnerships, university expansion . . . And all lapped up by Middle England.


----------



## cesare (May 9, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I still think that the Blair administration proved that it is possible to have progressive politics that appeals to people who aspire to owning a conservatory. Let's list out the achievements again: minimum wage, sure start centres, civil partnerships, university expansion . . . And all lapped up by Middle England.


Not sure why civil partnerships got slipped in there.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 9, 2015)

cesare said:


> Not sure why civil partnerships got slipped in there.



Seems straightforwardly a progressive issue and it certainly never happened under the 18 years of Tory rule that preceded Blair.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

Morris doesn't see why it is his fault.

Isn't he nice and progressive.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

List out. Not list,  but list out.


----------



## cesare (May 9, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Seems straightforwardly a progressive issue and it certainly never happened under the 18 years of Tory rule that preceded Blair.


Thatcher and subsequent Tory governments were regressive regarding gay rights, it's true.


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

cesare said:


> Thatcher and subsequent Tory governments were regressive regarding gay rights, it's true.



It's worth remembering that if it were left to the Tory Party alone during the last government they would have voted down gay marriage, yet they still used it to pink wash the rest of their policies with 'social liberal' dickheads.


----------



## tbtommyb (May 9, 2015)

killer b said:


> What makes you think that? Surely the most recent example of a referendum demonstrates the precise opposite...


the result of the eu referendum will probably be fairly close and won't resolve anything.


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> the result of the eu referendum will probably be fairly close and won't resolve anything.



I just don't see it. All the main parties are firmly against leaving, so is most of the media and all of big business... we'll see the sort of media hysteria which has worked so well against Labour in this election deployed against Eurosceptics... then again there could be fantastic leverage to be made by Eurosceptics in England of an anti-EU vote being a revolt against a political class which will have heaped indignity after indignity on the majority of people.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> . we'll see the sort of media hysteria which has worked so well against Labour in this election deployed against Eurosceptics...



Alas, no. Murdoch is staunchly Europhobic. Not sure how the Barclays or Lebedev would jump.


----------



## tbtommyb (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I just don't see it. All the main parties are firmly against leaving, so is most of the media and all of big business... we'll see the sort of media hysteria which has worked so well against Labour in this election deployed against Eurosceptics... then again there could be fantastic leverage to be made by Eurosceptics in England of an anti-EU vote being a revolt against a political class which will have heaped indignity after indignity on the majority of people.


hmm possibly, but a big and influential chunk of the media is against the EU and I can see lots of small businesses opposing it. I assume a sizeable number of Tories will campaign for a 'no'. I agree that it will end up 'the little people' against big business etc. throw in scotland and it'll be a clusterfuck.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> hmm possibly, but a big and influential chunk of the media is against the EU and I can see lots of small businesses opposing it. I assume a sizeable number of Tories will campaign for a 'no'. I agree that it will end up 'the little people' against big business etc. throw in scotland and it'll be a clusterfuck.


Possibly? Where is the doubt? Capital is pro eu.


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> hmm possibly, but a big and influential chunk of the media is against the EU and I can see lots of small businesses opposing it. I assume a sizeable number of Tories will campaign for a 'no'. I agree that it will end up 'the little people' against big business etc. throw in scotland and it'll be a clusterfuck.



Not inconcievable to see the Sun come out with a 'We know the EU is dodgy but vote to stay in for the good of Britain to stop a financial crisis' stuff


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Not inconcievable to see the Sun come out with a 'We know the EU is dodgy but vote to stay in for the good of Britain to stop a financial crisis' stuff



No chance. Inconceivable is exactly what it is.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Not inconcievable to see the Sun come out with a 'We know the EU is dodgy but vote to stay in for the good of Britain to stop a financial crisis' stuff



Not at all. The anti-EU media may like to have a moan but at the end of the day they know where their bread is buttered. Any referendum will be very one-sided. 

It will be interesting to see whether the other parties join the Tory leadership on the 'lets stay in' platform after what happened in the Scots referendum. They'd probably be best advised to leave well alone.


----------



## Up the junction (May 9, 2015)

I can see the leadership agreeing to 'stay in but with conditions' - like repealing the Human Right Act, etc.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

Up the junction said:


> I can see the leadership agreeing to 'stay in but with conditions' - like repealing the Human Right Act, etc.


Wtf do you think re-negotiation means?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Not at all. The anti-EU media may like to have a moan but at the end of the day they know where their bread is buttered. Any referendum will be very one-sided.
> 
> It will be interesting to see whether the other parties join the Tory leadership on the 'lets stay in' platform after what happened in the Scots referendum. They'd probably be best advised to leave well alone.


If it is a straight in/out ref as promised, all the other parties will be fully engaged.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

Oh no, now i've got no human RIGHTS!!!!


----------



## happie chappie (May 9, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> He's got 331: 326 is a majority.  Major's lead was reckoned to be uncomfortably thin back in the early 90s, and that was 21...



I don't think the comparison with John Major in 1993 is a good one for a number of reasons.

For starters, three of the Euro sceptics that caused him so much trouble (the “bastards”) were actually in the Cabinet at the time. There was talk that all three would resign on the eve of a key vote, which would have plunged the Government into turmoil. Cameron won’t be so stupid as to appoint any hard-line sceptics in his Cabinet.

Second, their rebellion was about giving _more_ powers to the EU via the Social Chapter of the Maastricht Treaty. The referendum will be about the repatriation of powers.

Third, Cameron has a huge amount of goodwill within the party and a lot of patronage, especially now that he no longer has to give any Cabinet seats to the Lib Dems.

Finally, Cameron and Osborne will have learnt form the mistakes in the past and will do all they can to avoid them.

I guess they will already be looking at the current make-up of the Parliamentary Conservative Party and working out who stands where.

Which MPs are Europhobes who will want the UK the leave irrespective of the shape of any deal? Who are the Euro sceptics who are generally anti EU but could be brought round by reason of argument/patronage/threats? Who are the MPs whose broad view is that the UK is better off in the EU than out? How do the numbers stack up.

One of the arch sceptics, Mark Pritchard, told the BBC today:

“There would be no pressure for the prime minister to rush into discussions about an in-out referendum on the UK's future in Europe, which he has pledged to hold in 2017.

"The party will be 100% behind the PM as he goes off to Brussels to fight for Britain, and indeed fight for an improved European Union," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32670311

May be a load of bollocks, but interesting nonetheless.


----------



## Up the junction (May 9, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Wtf do you think re-negotiation means?



Keeping out the smelly people.

I hesitate to ask this: what do_ you _think it means?


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

Up the junction said:


> Keeping out the smelly people.
> 
> I hesitate to ask this: what do_ you _think it means?


Tell me what's on the referendum question choppers.


----------



## Up the junction (May 9, 2015)

Exactly.

'Jesus'


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

Ref will follow scottish ref form.

Something like: The UK should leave the EU. Yes/No


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

Up the junction said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 'Jesus'


You think they're going to tag something else on


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> You think they're going to tag something else on


They've said it will be out or support the tory led re-negotiations. That's what the in vote will be.


----------



## teqniq (May 9, 2015)

How Big Money and Big Brother won the British Elections

Piece by Nafeez Ahmed, opinions?


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Strong stuff, but some very tenuous connections, he is on safer ground with the leaked email claiming that Sturgeon preferred a Tory Govt, dirty tricks there by the secret state, imo..


----------



## Libertad (May 9, 2015)

If true, I find no reason to doubt it, then this is chilling though not unexpected.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2015)

Libertad said:


> If true, I find no reason to doubt it, then this is chilling though not unexpected.



the financial stuff is not news really but the spook stuff is interesting if true. This leapt out at me as an aside



> had indeed been former MI6 officers, who had worked together at one time in Latin America.




murderous coupists in other words


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2015)

Don't do this. Please.


----------



## frogwoman (May 9, 2015)

Was talking to my mates boyfriend last night, a labourer on a building site. Of those of his workmates who voted (he didnt) many voted tory because they reckon there's been more easier to find work since the tories have been in. He said nobody he worked with voted labour.


----------



## Casually Red (May 9, 2015)

kabbes said:


> That's interesting.
> 
> England as a whole does seem to me to be pretty right wing on a low level basis.  The fundamental narrative is one of putting "the economy" (whatever the hell that is) first and foremost.  So often, there seems to be a terror of the idea of the nation's finances being anything other than as robust as possible.  There is an army of small business owners (Napoleon's "nation of shopkeepers") that kick against regulation or tax, even when its result would actually be to their personal benefit in the long run.
> 
> ...



V good post, particularly towards the end .


----------



## Casually Red (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep, they facilitated this shit. Thatcher facilitated Blair, then Blair facilitated Cameron. It's depressing as hell.
> 
> There's a big part of me that thinks Labour needs to go, to be destroyed, the unions disengaging and starting over.



I think that process has already been carried out to a large extent in Scotland , or at least begun . Their grass roots support base has dismantled them as a political force pretty much and told them to depart the scene. It seems it dawned on people they were part of the problem and not a solution .


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

One thing the SNP in parliament will do is very robustly oppose the ever more draconian welfare cuts, this will mean labour will have to abstain, vote for them, or oppose, it will partly define them.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> One possible solution I can see would be Cameron allowing dissent over the EU. He makes a deal with France and Germany and presents it as the best thing to do, names a date for a simple in/out vote, but allows all his MPs to campaign yes/no as they see fit. It could backfire, but if he wins the referendum, he's silenced all his eurosceptic MPs for good.



Didn't work like that the last time we had a referendum on EU membership!


----------



## belboid (May 9, 2015)

Various mates getting almost excited about the acceptance speech from the new Leeds East MP - and it isn't bad, to be fair.  

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....der-sweeps-to-victory-in-leeds-east-1-7250931


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Was talking to my mates boyfriend last night, a labourer on a building site. Of those of his workmates who voted (he didnt) many voted tory because they reckon there's been more easier to find work since the tories have been in. He said nobody he worked with voted labour.



Probably true, shame what they are building is mostly private buildings by all accounts.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2015)

Poi E said:


> A decent electoral system would help.
> 
> Wonder if Sturgeon will put something in the SNP manifesto for 2016 about certain red lines that could hint hint trigger a new Indy ref. Something like trident. If Labour/Tory press ahead then they look like they'd rather have trident than the union. Neither has any sway North of the border so a big yes to independence.


They probably will, but it won't be Trident. And it won't be centre stage. 

Here's the thing that people don't seem to get: the SNP know they lost the referendum. They know that there is not enough appetite for another one so soon. They also know that they'd lose all over again if they had it any time soon. They have popularity and support just now. They won't throw that away by rushing in another referendum. They'll bide their time, building up good will, showing how bad the Union is. Then, when demand for a referendum builds, they'll say: "look, there's demand. We didn't force it, but it's what people want". 

So, it'll be sooner than I thought on 19th of Sept last year, but not as soon as the London media thought on 8th May this year.


----------



## gareth taylor (May 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> They probably will, but it won't be Trident. And it won't be centre stage.
> 
> Here's the thing that people don't seem to get: the SNP know they lost the referendum. They know that there is not enough appetite for another one so soon. They also know that they'd lose all over again if they had it any time soon. They have popularity and support just now. They won't throw that away by rushing in another referendum. They'll bide their time, building up good will, showing how bad the Union is. Then, when demand for a referendum builds, they'll say: "look, there's demand. We didn't force it, but it's what people want".
> 
> So, it'll be sooner than I thought on 19th of Sept last year, but not as soon as the London media thought on 8th May this year.


 far to left wing this forum


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> far to left wing this forum


you know where the door is


----------



## gareth taylor (May 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> you know where the door is


  I hate labour party bunch of knob heads who sleep with bankers blair and brown were the scumist


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 9, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> I hate labour party bunch of knob heads who sleep with bankers blair and brown were the scumist


You've really got the measure of this place.  Staunch new labour blairites, that's us.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> I hate labour party bunch of knob heads who sleep with bankers blair and brown were the scumist


Ah, that's it. Cos we're left-wing, we're all Labour Party supporters.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> far to left wing this forum


How 'far to', or 'far from'?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 9, 2015)

Seems to be some possibility of TSG kicking off on the Downing St "fuck the Tories" event. 

Be interesting to see how the propaganda outlets spin it.


----------



## weltweit (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Was talking to my mates boyfriend last night, a labourer on a building site. Of those of his workmates who voted (he didnt) many voted tory because they reckon there's been more easier to find work since the tories have been in. He said nobody he worked with voted labour.


Indeed, I had a plumber round who thought the Tories needed more time in power to finish what they started. I was a little surprised he wasn't labour but there you are. /anecdote alert


----------



## campanula (May 9, 2015)

Yep, I can't help scowling at people down the allotment wondering if they were secret tory voters.


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Seems to be some possibility of TSG kicking off on the Downing St "fuck the Tories" event.
> 
> Be interesting to see how the propaganda outlets spin it.




I imagine they will ignore it.


----------



## bemused (May 9, 2015)

coley said:


> They now seem to have changed their minds on that, they no longer want full fiscal autonomy but fiscal independence, no prizes for guessing why they have moved the goal posts.



Oil under $100.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I imagine they will ignore it.


It's heartening to see though and all power to the protesters!


----------



## jakethesnake (May 9, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Be interesting to see how the propaganda outlets spin it.


A spontaneous expression of joy from a grateful populous at the re-election of our natural leaders.


----------



## frogwoman (May 9, 2015)

Tbh i think labour might be finished except as a regional party.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Tbh i think labour might be finished except as a regional party.


Don't think so. For better or worse, they will gain a lot of those Scottish seats back next time, I'm guessing. They still polled 25 per cent in Scotland, it's just that their vote was exceedingly evenly spaced out.


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Tbh i think labour might be finished except as a regional party.



Labour spad on my facebook has been playing up how great the idea of founding the 'English Labour Party' would be, he makes nasty comments about Scottish people quite often and has done since I met him at uni


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Labour spad on my facebook has been playing up how great the idea of founding the 'English Labour Party' would be, he makes nasty comments about Scottish people quite often and has done since I met him at uni


This is someone employed by the Labour Party, yes? 

Wow.


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> This is someone employed by the Labour Party, yes?
> 
> Wow.



Yep.

Around the Scottish Indy referendum he actually supported independence on the basis that he wouldn't have to deal with "jocks" from the SLP anymore.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

Their dismal campaign starts to make more sense.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 9, 2015)

Hell's teeth, look at this farce http://www.thepetitionsite.com/747/...d-2015-uk-election/?taf_id=13764593&cid=fb_na


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Seems to be some possibility of TSG kicking off on the Downing St "fuck the Tories" event.
> 
> Be interesting to see how the propaganda outlets spin it.





fair numbers.


----------



## frogwoman (May 9, 2015)

My mate was saying last night that she thought it might be rigged. I said i thought that was very unlikely.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 9, 2015)

BUT THE PENCILS!*

*that have always been used


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> My mate was saying last night that she thought it might be rigged. I said i thought that was very unlikely.


Thanet South? Totes rigged. By lizards.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Seems to be some possibility of TSG kicking off on the Downing St "fuck the Tories" event.
> 
> Be interesting to see how the propaganda outlets spin it.






> FOLLOWING OUR POLL ON THIS EVENT PAGE WE'VE AGREED TO CANCEL THIS DEMONSTRATION
> 
> Following our poll on this event page we've agreed to cancel tomorrow and re-focus that energy to get the biggest possible national demonstration on Saturday 20 June.
> 
> ******20 JUNE FACEBOOK PAGE:******* https://www.facebook.com/events/460624807433119/




totally ignored cancellation then!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> My mate was saying last night that she thought it might be rigged. I said i thought that was very unlikely.


One of the endearing things about British democracy is that it's mostly run by old ladies and gentlemen of a certain gentle kind, it's resolutely no-tech, and you don't have to prove id, but fraud, though it surely happens, happens only on a small scale. 

It wasn't rigged. I only wish it had been.


----------



## frogwoman (May 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Thanet South? Totes rigged. By lizards.



Her reasoning was that she didnt know anyone who had voted tory and reckoned that that many people couldnt have done it.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100368331774718&set=p.10100368331774718&type=1&theater


----------



## frogwoman (May 9, 2015)

Tbh i reckon loads of strident members of lefty parties and career lefties secretly vote tory tbh.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Her reasoning was that she didnt know anyone who had voted tory and reckoned that that many people couldnt have done it.


I feel her pain, I really do. We all looked at the results with a sense of disappointment at fellow humans.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Her reasoning was that she didnt know anyone who had voted tory and reckoned that that many people couldnt have done it.


Ironically the same lack of understanding of the wider populace that leads many people to vote Tory...


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Tbh i reckon loads of strident members of lefty parties and career lefties secretly vote tory tbh.



why?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Tbh i reckon loads of strident members of lefty parties and career lefties secretly vote tory tbh.


We should denounce a few. I know who I suspect.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> why?


You've never suspected Galloway was special branch?


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Vine video of protest, don't remember such an event in 2010.


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> You've never suspected Galloway was special branch?



No, not really. Should I have?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> This is someone employed by the Labour Party, yes?
> 
> Wow.



i mentioned this to danny the other day- the reaction of the shady labour person who lost his bradford seat to galloway was the whole scots thing writ small- anger, disbelief and disdain. Not a single seconds reflection. He got done by _Galloway_. From the left of Labour. Of course they re-took it in the general but still, a stinger and no mistake.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> No, not really. Should I have?


My lawyer tells me to answer "no" to that one.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

> General Election 2015: Charlotte Church 'mad as hell' as she joins Cardiff protest following Conservative majority
> 
> 15:05, 9 May 2015
> By Katie Sands
> ...




Charlotte Church was on a anti-tory demo today in Wales, in full voice as well.


----------



## frogwoman (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> why?



I think a lot of them have material interests that are more aligned with the tories and don't believe any of the shit they write any more. Someone like eg alex callinicos for instance.


----------



## D'wards (May 9, 2015)

The Tories winning the election means we are either collectively suffering from Stockholm Syndrome as a nation or simply a bunch of selfish cunts.
I fear its the latter.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> I think a lot of them have material interests that are more aligned with the tories and don't believe any of the shit they write any more. Someone like eg alex callinicos for instance.


srs point: 

If you're a genuine socialist, then you don't think anyone's material interests are aligned with the tories, as you don't believe that one's own material interests can ever be separated from those of others. 

Isn't that the point of being a socialist?


----------



## frogwoman (May 9, 2015)

Also a lot of them have careers that depend on the fact there are tories and tory policies to write columns about.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Labour spad on my facebook has been playing up how great the idea of founding the 'English Labour Party' would be, he makes nasty comments about Scottish people quite often and has done since I met him at uni


Here's a Labour supporter who seems to have lost the plot:


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100368331774718&set=p.10100368331774718&type=1&theater


what is that link and why should i click on it?


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Here's a Labour supporter who seems to have lost the plot:




Has to be one of sas' pseudonyms


----------



## frogwoman (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> srs point:
> 
> If you're a genuine socialist, then you don't think anyone's material interests are aligned with the tories, as you don't believe that one's own material interests can ever be separated from those of others.
> 
> Isn't that the point of being a socialist?



Well someone like that might see it in terms of voting in favour of their class interest.


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Also a lot of them have careers that depend on the fact there are tories and tory policies to write columns about.



I think that explains a lot of Rees' weird shit

Hail Putin + Khomeini + Sunni Islamists but only if they are in London otherwise march on you brave Hezbollah fighters!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Well someone like that might see it in terms of voting in favour of their class interest.


ok, then they're just tories!

One of the (many) things I despair at with Labour is their utter failure to articulate the idea that a fairer society is better for all of us. There is another way to reach out to those swing voters.


----------



## belboid (May 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Here's a Labour supporter who seems to have lost the plot:



I think she got some dreadful reviews for her last Edinburgh show, never got over it.

Labour down here (and Workers Power) are blaming the Greens for all the English losses


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

https://twitter.com/ColbyJS

Re: the demo at no 10, its all over social media, looks very big and mostly under 25, bit surprised really



Pickman's model said:


> what is that link and why should i click on it?




sorry, it should have embedded.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> One of the endearing things about British democracy is that it's mostly run by old ladies and gentlemen of a certain gentle kind, it's resolutely no-tech, and you don't have to prove id, but fraud, though it surely happens, happens only on a small scale.



Yeah, I like that too. Even the pencil thing - there's nothing that can go wrong with a pencil that can't be fixed with a penknife, and no-one is going to nick a pencil.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

> The biggest failure of understanding is the most paradoxical. Labour and the left do not take the right seriously. They dismiss its leaders as greedy fat cats and public school toffs, and do not grasp how formidable they have become. A friend made the point when he told me that at 8.30am on Friday, when Ed Balls lost his seat, the trading floor at Credit Suisse at Canary Wharf erupted with cheers. I don’t doubt there were similar yelps of delight on every other trading floor in the City.
> 
> In other words, the power of one of the world’s great trading centres is behind the Tory party. The power is manifest not just in campaign donations, but in the arrogance of financial capitalists, who never allow any number of market failures to dent their self-confidence or the self-confidence of their political allies. If you are going to take them on, you need to be good. In fact, you need to be brilliant.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/labour-left-miliband-hating-english




Nick Cohen on labour and the tories and the English, ,this part is very perceptive imo, I remember a small protest outside the education dept, the 14 year olds from St Pauls(or Westminster?) were shouting over, commies, and other comments, at that age they knew which side they were on.


----------



## Greebo (May 9, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Yeah, I like that too. Even the pencil thing - there's nothing that can go wrong with a pencil that can't be fixed with a penknife, and no-one is going to nick a pencil.


One FB person said that they'd been told that the polling station pencils aren't ordinary lead (graphite) but a special type of grease pencil which is difficult to erase without leaving a telltale mark.  Er, no, that's just a softish lead pencil - HB or B.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2015)

,aybe in 20 years well have moved on to those little minipens you get in the shop for doing the lottery


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> ,aybe in 20 years well have moved on to those little minipens you get in the shop for doing the lottery


Nasa spacepens.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2015)

[insert apocryphal soviet space pencil story here]


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> Nick Cohen on labour and the tories and the English, ,this part is very perceptive imo, I remember a small protest outside the education dept, the 14 year olds from St Pauls(or Westminster?) were shouting over, commies, and other comments, at that age they knew which side they were on.


He has a good point. I wonder, if you were to strip all the financial sector workers and their families from the vote in SE England, how many areas would turn red. Fuckers are the main reason SE England outside central London is so blue.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> [insert apocryphal soviet space pencil story here]


Yeah I know, it's not true.

It sooooo should be true, though.

And Bob Holness did play sax on Baker Street. Please...


----------



## Blagsta (May 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> ,aybe in 20 years well have moved on to those little minipens you get in the shop for doing the lottery



Naaah, it's all about Argos


----------



## frogwoman (May 9, 2015)

Exactly J Ed, you really think john rees votes tusc or some no hope lefty party? Of course he votes tory imo.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> ,aybe in 20 years well have moved on to those little minipens you get in the shop for doing the lottery



The place I work has need of public pens, so I just go around the local bookies asking for some. They're always happy to give me them, but they always seem to disappear quick sharp.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah I know, it's not true.
> 
> It sooooo should be true, though.
> 
> And Bob Holness did play sax on Baker Street. Please...




He did play the first Bond in a radio adapt of Casino Royale though. Thats one snopes has not ruined for me


----------



## Roadkill (May 9, 2015)

happie chappie said:


> I don't think the comparison with John Major in 1993 is a good one for a number of reasons.
> 
> For starters, three of the Euro sceptics that caused him so much trouble (the “bastards”) were actually in the Cabinet at the time. There was talk that all three would resign on the eve of a key vote, which would have plunged the Government into turmoil. Cameron won’t be so stupid as to appoint any hard-line sceptics in his Cabinet.
> 
> ...



It's hardly a surprise that even the looniest of backbenchers are making emollient noises 48 hours after a victory that few foresaw and some thought was impossible. Obviously you have to be careful about drawing comparisons between now and two decades ago, but it's still a fact that a basically pro-European PM has to keep an eye on some backbenchers who think very differently and might be inclined to make trouble if they don't think things are going their way.  All we can do is wait and see what happens.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 9, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> It's hardly a surprise that even the looniest of backbenchers are making emollient noises 48 hours after a victory that few foresaw and some thought was impossible. Obviously you have to be careful about drawing comparisons between now and two decades ago, but it's still a fact that a basically pro-European PM has to keep an eye on some backbenchers who think very differently and might be inclined to make trouble if they don't think things are going their way.  All we can do is wait and see what happens.


I hope you're right, but fear you're not. The feel-good factor of this unexpected win, and the glow Cameron will be covered in, may take a while to fade. Cameron is untouchable right now for the Tories. He's a clear winner. And the Tories exist to win.


----------



## campanula (May 9, 2015)

sunglasses at dawn - generally his greasy forehead glistens with blinding smugness...but now,  I fear the glint from his moon-faced visage will be ultra violet.
I have avoided viewing even a smidge of tory triumphalism as I fear my head may explode.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 9, 2015)

I made the mistake of looking at the papers when I was down the co-op for some bread this afternoon. The smugness and celebration on the front pages was as horrible as you might imagine.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 9, 2015)

I am in Somerset for the weekend.

Coming down the A 303, I think I must have passed 4 deceased badgers at the roadside.

I think they have heard about the election result



(((suicidal badgers)))


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 9, 2015)

Gove as Justice secretary. I have the chills.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 9, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Coming down the A 303, I think I must have passed 4 deceased badgers at the roadside.
> 
> I think they have heard about the election result
> 
> ...



I spent the last half of my childhood living in a relatively rural area, you'd see no badgers for a couple of years then suddenly three dead ones on the main road a few miles apart. The farmers shoot them illegally then dump them along the road to make it look like an accident.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 9, 2015)

eatmorecheese said:


> Gove as Justice secretary. I have the chills.



  



Dogsauce said:


> I spent the last half of my childhood living in a relatively rural area, you'd see no badgers for a couple of years then suddenly three dead ones on the main road a few miles apart. The farmers shoot them illegally then dump them along the road to make it look like an accident.


----------



## coley (May 9, 2015)

bemused said:


> Oil under $100.


The coconut is in the post


----------



## Libertad (May 9, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> I spent the last half of my childhood living in a relatively rural area, you'd see no badgers for a couple of years then suddenly three dead ones on the main road a few miles apart. The farmers shoot them illegally then dump them along the road to make it look like an accident.



This has increased over the last two or three years. You can tell when it's going on your area because the ratio of badger to fox "roadkills" becomes disproportionate.


----------



## coley (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Tbh i think labour might be finished except as a regional party.


Very possibly they tried to position themselves as a centre right party but that area is far to crowded already.


----------



## coley (May 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> My mate was saying last night that she thought it might be rigged. I said i thought that was very unlikely.


A lot of the SNP believe they were robbed of a referendum victory by the MI5/6
Consiracyloonerie exists in all quarters


----------



## coley (May 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Thanet South? Totes rigged. By lizards.



Not very bright lizards though, apparently UKIP has walked into power through the council elections?
Mebbes Farage should ask for a recount/ investigation?


----------



## AC14 (May 10, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> I spent the last half of my childhood living in a relatively rural area, you'd see no badgers for a couple of years then suddenly three dead ones on the main road a few miles apart. The farmers shoot them illegally then dump them along the road to make it look like an accident.


What, they risk being caught doing that rather than allowing them to rot in a field or buried. Yes, course they do.


----------



## Theisticle (May 10, 2015)

Breathtaking analysis from GCSE student Laurie Penny. The depression angle is poor taste. 

"The politics of the modern right are the politics of depression, and right now they are winning. What remains of the British left is flat on its back, staring at the ceiling in a mess of unwashed sheets, and shouting at it to get up is not going to help right now.

I’m not about to tell you to just buck up. I’m not advocating enforced blissed-outedness like a sort of fascist Gwyneth Paltrow. Some of my best friends are hippies, and I like yoga and meditation and suspicious smoothies as much as the next bourgeois lefty throwback, but downward-facing-dog is not a radical position, and that’s not what this is about."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ulation-hard-govern-depressed-population-easy


----------



## coley (May 10, 2015)

J Ed said:


> why?


Fear of the unknown?


----------



## Celyn (May 10, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Her reasoning was that she didnt know anyone who had voted tory and reckoned that that many people couldnt have done it.



Wonderfully "innocent" way of thinking there.     I mean, I personally don't know any Tories, but I do accept that such creatures exist.


----------



## coley (May 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> We should denounce a few. I know who I suspect.


Denounce away


----------



## coley (May 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> You've never suspected Galloway was special branch?



A peculiar branch of humanity, certainly, one doomed to extinction? Hopefully.


----------



## coley (May 10, 2015)

Celyn said:


> Wonderfully "innocent" way of thinking there.     I mean, I personally don't know any Tories, but I do accept that such creatures exist.


I know dozens,but they all claim to be labour, homophobic, racist and mysogonistic to a man, but all claiming to be 'real labour supporters'


----------



## coley (May 10, 2015)

D'wards said:


> The Tories winning the election means we are either collectively suffering from Stockholm Syndrome as a nation or simply a bunch of selfish cunts.
> I fear its the latter.


You are correct, but frightened, should have prefixed selfish cunts, never underestimate the Murdoch machine.


----------



## coley (May 10, 2015)

Roadkill said:


> It's hardly a surprise that even the looniest of backbenchers are making emollient noises 48 hours after a victory that few foresaw and some thought was impossible. Obviously you have to be careful about drawing comparisons between now and two decades ago, but it's still a fact that a basically pro-European PM has to keep an eye on some backbenchers who think very differently and might be inclined to make trouble if they don't think things are going their way.  All we can do is wait and see what happens.


Fair enough, but there's no point in enjoying the Tories self destructing while there is no viable alternative?


----------



## J Ed (May 10, 2015)




----------



## J Ed (May 10, 2015)

At least you know that the Tory jackboot on your neck has been on a course and knows not to call you a poof, just to give you that bit of reassurance as you get the shit kicked out of you.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 10, 2015)

coley said:


> Fair enough, but there's no point in enjoying the Tories self destructing while there is no viable alternative?


I have to disagree with you there. I'm not sure it will happen, but if it does, it can be enjoyed for its own sake.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2015)

J Ed said:


>




theres a reason for keeping your chin shaven and your hair short if you might end up in a fair fight.

plus, the scruffy cunt.


----------



## Cid (May 10, 2015)

eatmorecheese said:


> Gove as Justice secretary. I have the chills.



A bible for every cell, that's how to do rehabilitation.


----------



## coley (May 10, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I am in Somerset for the weekend.
> 
> Coming down the A 303, I think I must have passed 4 deceased badgers at the roadside.
> 
> ...



Used the 303 for a few years, chock full of high end German cars and twats driving them, surprised there wasn't more people lying on the roadside, never mind badgers.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2015)

Cid said:


> A bible for every cell, that's how to do rehabilitation.


Given Graylings book theiving ways it would appear that tory screw-in-chiefs giveth and taketh away


----------



## J Ed (May 10, 2015)

Cid said:


> A bible for every cell, that's how to do rehabilitation.



Maybe they can do a new and improved neoliberal bible with the caring for your fellow man stuff taken out, a neoliberal version of the Jefferson Bible


----------



## Plumdaff (May 10, 2015)

Just remove all of it apart from the foreword from Judge fucking Dredd.


----------



## equationgirl (May 10, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> i love it when they claimed to have 'worked bloody hard', as if the rest of the population picking cases twelve hours a day in a warehouse or cleaning the shit off a pensioner's sheets are some sort of slackers.  Most of these cunts haven't got the remotest fucking idea what hard work is.


Yeah, that fucks me off too, not least because I did 11 hours yesterday starting at 7am.

I despise the 'hardworking families ' rhetoric with a passion. Divisive nastiness like that helped put the tories back in power.


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

can't seem to embed image, did anyone expect protests like this, on this scale, so soonm most under 25..


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 10, 2015)




----------



## Roadkill (May 10, 2015)

coley said:


> Fair enough, but there's no point in enjoying the Tories self destructing while there is no viable alternative?



Of course there is, firstly because if the backbenchers start making trouble it might make it difficult for the government to pass legislation, and secondly because watching the Tories at war with themselves is always fun.


----------



## kabbes (May 10, 2015)

So long as the prevailing narrative is that your personal and the national finances are the things that matter to the exclusion of all else, why shouldn't people vote Tory?  After all, improving finances is the thing the Tories are all about.  The sizeable proportion of the population that get proper fucked financially by the Tories is nevertheless not sizable enough and too concentrated in particular areas to vote the Tories down.  

If Labour want to make proper headway, it's that basic assumption that context-free absolute finances are the alpha and the omega that they need to challenge.  They particularly need to focus on the incontrovertible proven fact that financial inequality hurts all of us, from them poorest right up to the richest.  The irony of voting Tory for your self-benefit is that you are actually, in the end, harming yourself, even if your personal finances end up improving! Once people believe that, why would they vote Tory?  It shouldn't be and can't be just a matter of relying on enlightened benevolence. 

Labour then need to properly demonstrate how they are going to govern for all of our benefit rather than the benefit of either personal or national coffers.

One of the first lessons of salesmanship is to concentrate on benefits rather than features.  Don't tell people that your doohickey can make tea and turn on the lights.  Tell them why it benefits them to have their tea made and lights turned on.  Selling a political philosophy is no different.  You can't just say what you are going to do and rely on everybody filling in the gaps for themselves.  You have to show people why it benefits them and their loved ones if you do what you will say you will do.  This is where Labour have totally lost their way, because they no longer really know what it is they stand for, so how can they sell the benefits of it?


----------



## Roadkill (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> far to left wing this forum



Sod off then.  Easy.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> far to left wing this forum


too. far too left wing.


----------



## Quartz (May 10, 2015)

Cid said:


> A bible for every cell, that's how to do rehabilitation.



Point of order! A Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, Torah, Kojiki, Tripitaka, etc in every cell. Can't be seen to be Christo-centric, can they?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Point of order! A Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, Torah, Kojiki, Tripitaka, etc in every cell. Can't be seen to be Christo-centric, can they?


not the mention 'the book of the law'


----------



## Quartz (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> not the mention 'the book of the law'



Nah, they keep changing that.


----------



## Quartz (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> not the mention 'the book of the law'



Indeed, but they have to do it by the Numbers.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2015)

coley said:


> Not very bright lizards though, apparently UKIP has walked into power through the council elections?
> Mebbes Farage should ask for a recount/ investigation?


Well, there's two different parliamentary seats that cover the council area, and people can and do vote differently in local and national elections. I don't think it's strange at all.


----------



## bi0boy (May 10, 2015)

What exactly do UKIP offer in local government? No twinning with 3rd-rate Belgian towns?


----------



## Plumdaff (May 10, 2015)

Blame dog shit on Polish dogs. Potholes are due to immigrant overuse of good British high ways.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Blame dog shit on Polish dogs. Potholes are due to immigrant overuse of good British high ways.


overcrowding in pubs due to foreign lager


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> You've really got the measure of this place.  Staunch new labour blairites, that's us.


 and wonder why some people in uk chose ukip over your party !


----------



## Libertad (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> and wonder why some people in uk chose ukip over your party !



Oh do fuck off.


----------



## JTG (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> and wonder why some people in uk chose ukip over your party !


You're not too bright are you?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> and wonder why some people in uk chose ukip over your party !


Is it because of our Tony4real tattoos?


----------



## J Ed (May 10, 2015)

Mine says 2real4tony milibae


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> and wonder why some people in uk chose ukip over your party !



Just leave.  You're not starting an argument, you're not making a point, you're embarrassing yourself.


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Just leave.  You're not starting an argument, you're not making a point, you're embarrassing yourself.


 for most of my life I have been right wing doesn't make me racist, at this years election I voted plaid, but was happy at tories getting back in,
labour are bunch of tossers they don't care about working class or folk who do jobs which pay crap money ie council work,


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Libertad said:


> Oh do fuck off.


 your party labour is done as a force I think be years till get back in power ha ha ha


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 10, 2015)

Well done on answering a series of questions that weren't asked


----------



## Libertad (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> your party labour is done as a force I think be years till get back in power ha ha ha



It's not "my" Labour Party. I think you're a little confused.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> labour are bunch of tossers they don't care about working class or folk who do jobs which pay crap money ie council work,



But that's what the vast majority of posters here think. It's really not a particularly easy place to show off one's Liz Kendall tattoo.


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Libertad said:


> It's not "my" Labour Party. I think you're a little confused.


 in north wales tory vote wnet up in Wrexham, and they won a couple of seats,

be long road back for labour and party needs to change if wants votes from working class


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Nah, they keep changing that.


i don't think they do


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> But that's what the vast majority of posters here think. It's really not a particularly easy place to show off one's Liz Kendall tattoo.


 what about tony blair that man should be in jail for war crimes


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> what about tony blair that man should be in jail for war crimes


should be





> what about tony blair? that man should be in jail. for war crimes!


it is a bit disappointing that you have such difficulty expressing yourself.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> what about tony blair that man should be in jail for war crimes



On the other hand, perhaps he should be installed as president for life, with military backing, and the Westminster regime suspended.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> in north wales tory vote wnet up in Wrexham, and they won a couple of seats,
> 
> be long road back for labour and party needs to change if wants votes from working class


wouldn't be surprised if you'd had a wnet dream over the result


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> On the other hand, perhaps he should be installed as president for life, with military backing, and the Westminster regime suspended.


the house of juntas


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> wouldn't be surprised if you'd had a wnet dream over the result


 it takes courage to vote tory in place like Wrexham, town is still raw after the 80's and thatcher,
Delyn went labour yet again were I vote, think plaid got 4th place,


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> it takes courage to vote tory in place like Wrexham, town is still raw after the 80's and thatcher,
> Delyn went labour yet again were I vote, think plaid got 4th place,


what, it takes courage to walk into a polling station, into a cubicle where no one else can see you, and prove to yourself what everyone else knew already, that you're an utter cunt?


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what, it takes courage to walk into a polling station, into a cubicle where no one else can see you, and prove to yourself what everyone else knew already, that you're an utter cunt?


 often people who vote labour have had shit life suppose I can understand why you vote for them,,,,,,,,,


----------



## chilango (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> it takes courage to vote tory in place like Wrexham, town is still raw after the 80's and thatcher,
> Delyn went labour yet again were I vote, think plaid got 4th place,



Delyn was Tory in the 80s.


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2015)

Bring back the real ern. This one's shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> often people who vote labour have had shit life suppose I can understand why you vote for them,,,,,,,,,


i didn't vote labour. or tory. or lib dem. or green, ukip, animal welfare, communist league, sinn fein, sdlp, snp, plaid cymru. i went for the great spunking cock


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 10, 2015)

chilango said:


> Delyn was Tory in the 80s.


Very courageous place, clearly.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

chilango said:


> Delyn was Tory in the 80s.


let's not let the facts get in the way of a load of auld shite.


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> let's not let the facts get in the way of a load of auld shite.


 after this election tories in north wales are riding a crest of a wave I would say


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> after this election tories in north wales are riding a crest of a wave I would say


i'm sure you would


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm sure you would


 its sad how bitter you seem towards some people,


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> its sad how bitter you seem towards some people,


its in this case a contraction of 'it is', so it takes the apostrophe: it's.

and commas have no place at the end of a sentence.

in addition the sentiment you express is trite and banal. of course i'm bitter against some people. but not you, it would be like being bitter against a bird shit on the bus window.


----------



## chilango (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> let's not let the facts get in the way of a load of auld shite.



Delyn's first ever Labour MP wasn't elected until 1992.


----------



## teqniq (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> often people who vote labour have had shit life suppose I can understand why you vote for them,,,,,,,,,


What is this drivel? It should be 'they' not 'you'. Also I'm uncertain how you arrive at the conclusion that a 'shit' life' leads someone to voting Labour. You also seem to be under the misapprehension that because this site has a decidedly left of centre population that a lot of us voted Labour. I did not, I decided they were a busted flush ages ago - mainly for ditching what was left of their socialist principles.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

chilango said:


> Delyn's first ever Labour MP wasn't elected until 1992.


aw  i thought i told you not to let the facts get in the way of a load of auld shite


----------



## Plumdaff (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> after this election tories in north wales are riding a crest of a wave I would say



Tories increased their vote 1% in Wales and hold 11 of the 40 Welsh seats. It's very, shockingly good as modern Welsh Toryism goes but let's not get over excited.


----------



## gareth taylor (May 10, 2015)

Teaboy said:


> I think you may have just given us your lottery numbers by mistake.


 how wrong I was,,,,,,,,,,


----------



## chilango (May 10, 2015)

Conwy/Aberconwy - Tory from 1970 to 1997 and again since 2010.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> how wrong I was,,,,,,,,,,


and how wrong you still are.


----------



## brogdale (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> how wrong I was,,,,,,,,,,


You certainly were. They were all pretty shit predictions but, tbf you did have the vermin as the largest party...so well done to you. Pleased with that?


----------



## Belushi (May 10, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Tories increased their vote 1% in Wales and hold 11 of the 40 Welsh seats. It's very, shockingly good as modern Welsh Toryism goes but let's not get over excited.



My Mother tells me they put a lot of work into Brecon and Radnor to unseat the incumbent Lib-Dem, focusing on the farmers in particular.


----------



## chilango (May 10, 2015)

Clwyd West (previously Clwyd NW previously Denbigh) Tory since 1959.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

/


----------



## Plumdaff (May 10, 2015)

Belushi said:


> My Mother tells me they put a lot of work into Brecon and Radnor to unseat the incumbent Lib-Dem, focusing on the farmers in particular.



The surprising victory for me was Gower, but again, farmers, and very close. Cardiff North too but it contains areas where I'm sure people have been doing very well over the past few years. Vale of Clwyd, not so much.


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2015)

Did i post this already?







see also


----------



## weepiper (May 10, 2015)

In more 'out-lefting Labour' news, East Lothian's new SNP MP George Kerevan (who grew up in Drumchapel and is an ex-Labour councillor, as well as having been associate editor of the Scotsman newspaper) has said he's only going to take the median wage of £29,000 instead of the full MP salary.


----------



## Belushi (May 10, 2015)

Sturgeon was very impressive on Andrew Marr this morning, and positioning herself as leader of all-anti austerity sentiment across the UK.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 10, 2015)

weepiper said:


> In more 'out-lefting Labour' news, East Lothian's new SNP MP George Kerevan (who grew up in Drumchapel and is an ex-Labour councillor, as well as having been associate editor of the Scotsman newspaper) has said he's only going to take the median wage of £29,000 instead of the full MP salary.


Fair play to him. You'd hope this would get some coverage and restart the debate about parliamentary wages, but I fear that is rather unlikely...


----------



## weepiper (May 10, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Sturgeon was very impressive on Andrew Marr this morning, and positioning herself as leader of all-anti austerity sentiment across the UK.


I can't bring myself to watch those kinds of shows at the moment. Apparently he called us 'the Scottish Problem'.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2015)

I do often worry about London's economic dependence on the coal mines of Lambeth and Walthamstow.


----------



## J Ed (May 10, 2015)

weepiper said:


> I can't bring myself to watch those kinds of shows at the moment. Apparently he called us 'the Scottish Problem'.



I don't think I will be able to watch them for months, I could barely stand the sound or sight of Marr or Neil before the election.


----------



## weepiper (May 10, 2015)

This is pleasing:


----------



## frogwoman (May 10, 2015)

So what happened with the scottish tories then?


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 10, 2015)

Mandleson is getting stuck into Milliband now.


> We were sent off in 2010 on a giant political experiment, in which we were sent out and told to wave our fists angrily at the nasty Tories and wait for the public to realise how much they had missed us. Well, they weren’t missing us and they did not miss us. Instead, they ripped the stripes off our shoulders.





> Literally, we were sent out and told to say things and to make an argument, if you can call it an argument, which basically said we are for the poor, we hate the rich, ignoring completely the vast swathes of the population who exist in between and who do have values like ours. They do like the Labour party, they are committed to social justice and fairness, and they do want a government like ours that leans heavily against inequalities in society. But they also want a a government that is economically competent and also realises that people have aspirations, they live in the real world, they want to better themselves, and if we are not with them in that, why on earth should they vote for us.


----------



## weepiper (May 10, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> So what happened with the scottish tories then?


Hamstrung by association with Cameron, I reckon. Ruth Davidson had a great campaign but there's only so much she could do against the overall tide of anti-Westminster sentiment. Plus, they're still the fucking Tories, eh?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2015)

sleaterkinney said:


> Mandleson is getting stuck into Milliband now.


the turd that refuses to stay flushed, I suppose his star will be in the ascendant again soon. urgh.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I do often worry about London's economic dependence on the coal mines of Lambeth and Walthamstow.


Apparently Walthamstow does have shale gas reserves...


----------



## Quartz (May 10, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> So what happened with the scottish tories then?



Overall vote down about 2%, I believe. Any tactical voting (Tory to Labour) was completely overwhelmed by the SNP landslide.


----------



## oryx (May 10, 2015)

Just a thought, but has anything been said about any correlation between the new voting registration rules and the result? When I heard about it I reckoned it was likely to affect labour's tradition base than the torys'.


----------



## kebabking (May 10, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the turd that refuses to stay flushed, I suppose his star will be in the ascendant again soon. urgh.



he's not the only Labour figure to say the same things about the Miliband strategy, and tbf from the leaflets i got, and conversations i've had at work, i'd say the same thing - Miliband had a policy for the very poor, and a policy for the rich, but for the vast, overwhelming majority who sit somewhere between the two there was nothing whatsoever.  

Mandelson may not be be my personal political cup of tea, it would be foolish in the extreme to ignore his very obvious political talent and nouse. as Tony Blair, who won three elections saw, and Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband, who won none, didn't.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

oryx said:


> Just a thought, but has anything been said about any correlation between the new voting registration rules and the result? When I heard about it I reckoned it was likely to affect labour's tradition base than the torys'.


what, even more than the labour party's arrogance and abandonment of their traditional core support?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2015)

I've no doubt of the PoD's political skills. I'd have a gnats chuff hair less disdain for him if he was an incompetent.


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2015)

kebabking said:


> he's not the only Labour figure to say the same things about the Miliband strategy, and tbf from the leaflets i got, and conversations i've had at work, i'd say the same thing - Miliband had a policy for the very poor, and a policy for the rich, but for the vast, overwhelming majority who sit somewhere between the two there was nothing whatsoever.
> 
> Mandelson may not be be my personal political cup of tea, it would be foolish in the extreme to ignore his very obvious political talent and nouse. as Tony Blair, who won three elections saw, and Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband, who won none, didn't.


His political nous appears to consist of simply saying that people should appeal to more people and painting everyone else as only trying to  appeal only to a a restricted audience. In fact, that's a pretty much what all these types do._ Be more popular with more people._


----------



## kebabking (May 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> His political nous appears to consist of simply saying that people should appeal to more people and painting everyone else as only trying to  appeal only to a a restricted audience. In fact, that's a pretty much what all these types do._ Be more popular with more people._



he did win elections though, and without winning election, political purity is nothing. as TUSC know all too well...

Milibands problem was not that he wasn't giving out freebies - after all, the 'middle' who voted Tory instead of Labour voted Tory because they believe there's no money - it was because he ignored their existance.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 10, 2015)

He went on about the squeezed middle for five years.


----------



## campanula (May 10, 2015)

Grrr, trying to ignore anything political but am repeatedly drawn back to this thread in much the same way as the financial collapse thread...but without any of the anticipatory glee.


----------



## Libertad (May 10, 2015)

This aspiration narrative assumes that all people are striving to "better themselves" in financial terms. Is an aspiration to build a progressive society no longer acceptable?


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2015)

kebabking said:


> he did win elections though, and without winning election, political purity is nothing. as TUSC know all too well...
> 
> Milibands problem was not that he wasn't giving out freebies - after all, the 'middle' who voted Tory instead of Labour voted Tory because they believe there's no money - it was because he ignored their existance.


The only thing he ever won was gifted to him by Ted leadbitter - he didn't mastermind 1997, that was happening whatever - and the 2001 and 2005 elections were just a result of that original huge majority insulating the party from serious challenge. His skill was in portraying this as all being down to him.


----------



## Cid (May 10, 2015)

Quartz said:


> Point of order! A Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, Torah, Kojiki, Tripitaka, etc in every cell. Can't be seen to be Christo-centric, can they?



Michael Gove.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Cid said:


> Michael Gove.


michael gove in every cell? 

you'd be spreading him pretty thin, there's only something like 240 bones in the human body - you'd be hard pressed to share him among the inmates of pentonville let alone all the other gaols in the country.


----------



## kebabking (May 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> The only thing he ever won was gifted to him by Ted leadbitter - he didn't mastermind 1997, that was happening whatever - and the 2001 and 2005 elections were just a result of that original huge majority insulating the party from serious challenge. His skill was in portraying this as all being down to him.



i'd disagree to a point - certainly i'd accept that Labour defeating the tories in 1997 was going to happen regardless of policy or presentation, and that 2001 was also gifted to Labour by the Tories, but the _size_ of those victories, and the acceptance by 'middle england' that Labour was _the natural party of government_ and the Tories were incompetant nutjobs was (imv) brought about by Labour talking to, and about, people who weren't 'in need' of Labour, but who could be persuaded that Labour would be good for them, via being good for society.


----------



## Roadkill (May 10, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> labour are bunch of tossers they don't care about working class or folk who do jobs which pay crap money ie council work,



Yeah, because the Tories really care about working class folk and public sector workers, don't they?  

Pillock.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 10, 2015)

kebabking said:


> i'd disagree to a point - certainly i'd accept that Labour defeating the tories in 1997 was going to happen regardless of policy or presentation, and that 2001 was also gifted to Labour by the Tories, but the _size_ of those victories, and the acceptance by 'middle england' that Labour was _the natural party of government_ and the Tories were incompetant nutjobs was (imv) brought about by Labour talking to, and about, people who weren't 'in need' of Labour, but who could be persuaded that Labour would be good for them, via being good for society.


Or they were persuaded to vote Labour because they no longer stood for the good of society. In particular, they no longer stood for preventing the gap between rich and poor from widening. Labour strove to become a party that could accommodate the sharp-elbowed 'fuck you' 'middle England'.

I don't really buy the argument, though, tbh. Huge swathes of that 'middle England' remained tory, after all.

One of the many ironies of Blair's big victories in 1997 and 2001 is that they effectively neutralised the back benches. A landslide labour govt meant, paradoxically, a far more right-wing govt.


----------



## emanymton (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> michael gove in every cell?
> 
> you'd be spreading him pretty thin, there's only something like 240 bones in the human body - you'd be hard pressed to share him among the inmates of pentonville let alone all the other gaols in the country.


It's a Challenge I'd be quite happy to try though.


----------



## purves grundy (May 10, 2015)

So what is to be done?


----------



## Idris2002 (May 10, 2015)

purves grundy said:


> So what is to be done?


Disassemble Gove on a molecular level.


----------



## frogwoman (May 10, 2015)

By the way those John Harris vids are fantastic. I really recommend watching. Im beginning to think this election was not a case of the tories winning so much as labour losing.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

purves grundy said:


> So what is to be done?


have people walk all over gove - two steps forward one step back


----------



## Dogsauce (May 10, 2015)




----------



## Lord Camomile (May 10, 2015)

I was wondering if it would be possible for sources to report the content of spoiled ballots. I presume it'd be illegal, but would there be an easy way it could be done anonymously?

Could be of diverting interest


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

purves grundy said:


> So what is to be done?





> http://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/7-ways-make-difference-you-5672059
> Now is the time to get active in your opposition to the Conservative government and its cruellest policies



The Mirror seems to be really pleased about the youth protest in London yesterday, five stories about it, including this one. I am beginning to think this term is not going to be as passive as the last.


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Did i post this already?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



pretty powerful stuff.


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> The surprising victory for me was Gower, but again, farmers, and very close. Cardiff North too but it contains areas where I'm sure people have been doing very well over the past few years. Vale of Clwyd, not so much.




Farmers provide masses of free advertising space for the Tories, they were all over the peaks, hundreds of them.


----------



## brogdale (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> pretty powerful stuff.


It's actually a little geographically illiterate and simplistic. With the exception of the capital city that was based on trading, all of our major urban areas developed on the coalfields. It's just a map of urbanisation based on industrialisation.


----------



## Belushi (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> Farmers provide masses of free advertising space for the Tories, they were all over the peaks, hundreds of them.



Yes, my mum was saying the same where she is.


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Sturgeon was very impressive on Andrew Marr this morning, and positioning herself as leader of all-anti austerity sentiment across the UK.



I plan to write to her and her spokesperson on welfare/social security on how they can work with disability groups/anti maximus groups, etc and how they can raise the issues Labour never did in Parliament.


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

sleaterkinney said:


> Mandleson is getting stuck into Milliband now.




Ffs, Labour were invisible for four and a half years, contrast that with say Cooke savaging the Tories.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> Ffs, Labour were invisible for four and a half years, contrast that with say Cooke savaging the Tories.


Robin Cook is the one person who could have saved Labour post-Blair, imo. Provided a post-Iraq catharsis. First John Smith's death, and then his. We were unlucky.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> Ffs, Labour were invisible for four and a half years, contrast that with say Cooke savaging the Tories.


Cooke?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 10, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Robin Cook is the one person who could have saved Labour post-Blair, imo. Provided a post-Iraq catharsis. First John Smith's death, and then his. We were unlucky.


Robin Cook, the arms dealer....


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 10, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Robin Cook, the arms dealer....


I'm under no illusions that he would have led us into paradise. But he would have had some moral authority, having opposed the war.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 10, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm under no illusions that he would have led us into paradise. But he would have had some moral authority, having opposed the war.


what sort of moral authority would that be, having ordered an intervention into Kosovo that wasn't sanctioned by the UN?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm under no illusions that he would have led us into paradise. But he would have had some moral authority, having opposed the war.





> As he left the government ranks, Mr Cook, who saw Mr Blair before the cabinet, said: "It is with regret I have today resigned from the cabinet.
> 
> "I can't accept collective responsibility for the decision to commit Britain now to military action in Iraq without international agreement or domestic support."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2857637.stm

it would have been fine i suppose if either international agreement had been there, or domestick support. not that launching a war based on a false prospectus was a bad idea.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm under no illusions that he would have led us into paradise. But he would have had some moral authority, having opposed the war.


afghanistan?
kosovo - as Orang Utan points out?
sierra leone?
iraq '98, operation foxtrot?


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

> Oliver Colvile's staff found the 'graffiti' at his office in Plymouth only to realise 'something didn't smell quite right'
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/poo-smeared-over-tory-mps-5672895




Oh, my goodness!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> Oh, my goodness!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 10, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> what sort of moral authority would that be, having ordered an intervention into Kosovo that wasn't sanctioned by the UN?


He also agreed with the invasion of Afghanistan. Clearly these things are only ever relative.

It's a judgement, on my part, regarding the single biggest catastrophe of the Blair years - the Iraq War.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 10, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He also agreed with the invasion of Afghanistan. Clearly these things are only ever relative.


so much for the moral authority you claim for him, though


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 10, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> so much for the moral authority you claim for him, though


Moral authority to speak about mistakes made by the Blair government. We are still to reach the position where a Labour leader can do this.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Moral authority to speak about mistakes made by the Blair government. We are still to reach the position where a Labour leader can do this.


i'd like to see robin cook speak about mistakes made by the brown government.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He also agreed with the invasion of Afghanistan. Clearly these things are only ever relative.
> 
> It's a judgement, on my part, regarding the single biggest catastrophe of the Blair years - the Iraq War.


what, the war itself, not the lying which went on around it, not the expenses scandal of entitled mps, not the degradation of an already corrupt political class? _THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO WAR IF BLAIR HAD ONLY MANAGED TO TELL THE TRUTH. _but blair and the truth were very distant companions right from the get-go.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 10, 2015)

Yes, Pickman's, in my judgement, the Iraq War, which killed hundreds of thousands of people and has left Iraq in an abject mess, continuing to add to the body count long after it ended, is the single biggest catastrophe of the Blair years.

To compare that to the expenses scandal is utterly absurd. It's pretty offensively absurd.

And again, in my judgement, every single member of the cabinet who did not resign over that war, ie everyone except Cook, is irreversibly tainted. It's a clear line for me. It makes me fucking angry to think about it, even now.

The day of the final march, the 2 million person shuffle, I genuinely thought we would stop the war. Something died that day. A certain sadness descended.
 And it is still there, 12 years later.


----------



## oryx (May 10, 2015)

Libertad said:


> This aspiration narrative assumes that all people are striving to "better themselves" in financial terms. Is an aspiration to build a progressive society no longer acceptable?



That's what I was thinking with all the talk (on here & elsewhere) of appealing to the middle class, most of whom don't have too much to worry about unlike users of food banks, people on benefits, zero hours contracts, the lot.

It's as if selfishness is the norm and the middle class aspirational voters are a sacred cow.


----------



## Greebo (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> michael gove in every cell?  <snip>


Shred, liquidise, and make into the equivalent of a homeopathic formula.  Enough to dose every convict in the UK for centuries to come with the best of human values.


----------



## Theisticle (May 10, 2015)

LOL Mirror journalist advocates joining the DUP or Ukip to fight back against the Tories. 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/7-ways-make-difference-you-5672059


----------



## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

Greebo said:


> Shred, liquidise, and make into the equivalent of a homeopathic formula.  Enough to dose every convict in the UK for centuries to come with the best of human values.


_Essence of Gove_, the new fragrance for Christmas 2015.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 10, 2015)

Theisticle said:


> LOL Mirror journalist advocates joining the DUP or Ukip to fight back against the Tories.
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/usvsth3m/7-ways-make-difference-you-5672059



I think you are reaching a bit there.


----------



## Greebo (May 10, 2015)

Theisticle said:


> LOL Mirror journalist advocates joining the DUP or Ukip to fight back against the Tories. <snip>


There's as much point to that as IMHO there ever was to women copying the worst bits of macho culture in the workplace to try and be accepted or to get ahead.  

Mark 8:36-37 (King James version) "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"


----------



## bi0boy (May 10, 2015)

oryx said:


> That's what I was thinking with all the talk (on here & elsewhere) of appealing to the middle class, most of whom don't have too much to worry about unlike users of food banks, people on benefits, zero hours contracts, the lot.
> 
> It's as if selfishness is the norm and the middle class aspirational voters are a sacred cow.



What about all the working class "aspirational" voters. You know, those denizens of Basildon that both Thatcher and Blair won over.


----------



## Belushi (May 10, 2015)

There's nothing wrong with being aspirational, Union leaders used to talk about the aspirations of their members all the time when I was a kid.

The problem is that thirty years of dog eat dog capitalism have left people convinced that aspirations are an individual thing achieved by fucking someone else over, rather than something best achieved moving forward as a class.


----------



## oryx (May 10, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> What about all the working class "aspirational" voters. You know, those denizens of Basildon that both Thatcher and Blair won over.



It's not aspiration _per se_ that I mean - it's the disproportionate bowing-down to it to the exclusion of a lot else.


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

> It seems to me that we all paid much too little attention to the ground war, accepting the viral assertion on social media that Labour, inspired by its US election guru David Axelrod, was winning the grassroots battle as Obama had in 2008. In fact, it was the Tories who were quietly prevailing on this front: Grant Shapps, the Tory chairman, had organised a “team 2015” force of 100,000 volunteers, loosely modelled on the London 2012 Games Makers, dispatched to 100 key locations on “Super Saturdays”. In the last week of campaigning, Shapps predicted to Cameron, George Osborne and Lynton Crosby, the party’s electoral mastermind, that the Tories would win 300 seats. On polling day the same inner circle was made quietly aware that the result was going to be even better.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...conservative-welfare-cameron#comment-51909135



Ancona in the Guardian, I really didn't know they had that sort of manpower, 100,000 in the field! .I think we underestimate the Tories, maybe even Michael Green


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> Ancona in the Guardian, I really didn't know they had that sort of manpower, 100,000 in the field! .I think we underestimate the Tories, maybe even Michael Green


next time we just need to follow these super saturdays and make one or two of them extra special


----------



## chilango (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> Ancona in the Guardian, I really didn't know they had that sort of manpower, 100,000 in the field! .I think we underestimate the Tories, maybe even Michael Green



I know of at least one person who volunteered to help the Conservative campaign in their constituency despite not being a Party member, in fact despite being historically a Labour voter. Their motivations were partly political but mainly to support the individual candidate regardless of Party affiliation. I would expect the Tories to be quite good at mobilising via "the community" in some of their seats. Utilising all kinds of old school social networks (churches, clubs etc.) the old CP could do this too.


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

yes, a lot of people on the reddit page said they were voting for their candidate, the Tory 'family' used to number many 100,000's,

Having said that, the coalition acted as the Nasty Party, but the public generally weren't aware of this, this is a failing for the Labour Party, but also the considerable number of activists who chose other priorities the last five years.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 10, 2015)

Belushi said:


> There's nothing wrong with being aspirational, Union leaders used to talk about the aspirations of their members all the time when I was a kid.
> 
> The problem is that thirty years of dog eat dog capitalism have left people convinced that aspirations are an individual thing achieved by fucking someone else over, rather than something best achieved moving forward as a class.


Exactly, you can have aspirations far beyond making money for yourself.

Rather than secure your own future, you can secure everyone's, for _fuck's_ sake.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Exactly, you can have aspirations far beyond making money for yourself.
> 
> Rather than secure your own future, you can secure everyone's, for _fuck's_ sake.


even the fascists recognise that for fuck's sake, in the 14 words. although there are a lot of people who they wouldn't want in that future...


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> even the fascists recognise that for fuck's sake, in the 14 words. although there are a lot of people who they wouldn't want in that future...


I was unaware of these 14 words. Not quite the future I was talking about...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> I was unaware of these 14 words. Not quite the future I was talking about...


no. but it shows that even bloody awful people can still have more solidarity with each other than tory voters.


----------



## oryx (May 10, 2015)

Galloway challenging election result!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32685844


----------



## JimW (May 10, 2015)

We can enjoy watching him lose twice!


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2015)

Smith is back!


----------



## mk12 (May 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> yes, a lot of people on the reddit page said they were voting for their candidate, the Tory 'family' used to number many 100,000's,
> 
> Having said that, the coalition acted as the Nasty Party, but the public generally weren't aware of this, this is a failing for the Labour Party, but also the considerable number of activists who chose other priorities the last five years.



Is it really a lack of awareness and knowledge? Or did voters simply agree with welfare cuts?


----------



## Grandma Death (May 10, 2015)

Ian Duncan Smith reappointed as Minister For Work and Pensions..fucks sake


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 10, 2015)

mk12 said:


> Is it really a lack of awareness and knowledge? Or did voters simply agree with welfare cuts?


Easier to agree with the cuts when you don't know anyone directly affected by them, when you don't feel the human cost.


----------



## treelover (May 11, 2015)

> Anyone listen to LBC (London radio channel) Friday night. One poor guy who was registered blind phoned in to say he was worried about having his benefit cut, to which the Tory MP replied "that's democracy". I kid you not. Now, will anyone deny they aren't the nasty party.



Anyone else hear this?, posted on another forum


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2015)

Grandma Death said:


> Ian Duncan Smith reappointed as Minister For Work and Pensions..fucks sake



As I said to Greebo on Saturday, Cameron had Hobson's Choice - Dunked-in Shit didn't want any other role, and because of Shit's approval ratings with the (parliamentary and constituency) Party membership, Cameron wasn't going to risk aggro over leaving Shit out in the cold.
Fuck knows why the party membership like the psychopathic little zealot cunt. Actually, perhaps it's *because* he's a psychopathic little zealot cunt.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 11, 2015)

he's not that little - about six foot and very broad shouldered.


----------



## chilango (May 11, 2015)

mk12 said:


> Is it really a lack of awareness and knowledge? Or did voters simply agree with welfare cuts?



Some voters "agree" with them in as much as they don't see any other choice...."but we have to balance the the books", "we can't spend more than we earn" etc etc. There's neither compassion nor malice in their rationale.


----------



## two sheds (May 11, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> As I said to Greebo on Saturday, Cameron had Hobson's Choice - Dunked-in Shit didn't want any other role, and because of Shit's approval ratings with the (parliamentary and constituency) Party membership, Cameron wasn't going to risk aggro over leaving Shit out in the cold.
> Fuck knows why the party membership like the psychopathic little zealot cunt. Actually, perhaps it's *because* he's a psychopathic little zealot cunt.



Or they stood him down temporarily so it didn't look like they were actually going for the big welfare cuts during the election runup.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 11, 2015)

treelover said:


> Ancona in the Guardian, I really didn't know they had that sort of manpower, 100,000 in the field! .I think we underestimate the Tories, maybe even Michael Green



Ashcroft was spending millions on deep polling in the swing seats with weekly 1000 telephone polls in each constituency. The database had a load of datapoints for each person , age , income, family members, occupation and much more. So messaging could be personally tailored to the recipients hopes, fears and aspirations. In my constituency of Dulwich and Norwood just got bog standard leaflets from the parties , no calls either at the door or on the phone because as a safe labour it wasn't worth the candle. These tools will just get better and more expensive and the Conservatives along with their 100,000 doorsteppers used them to devastating effect.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

treelover said:


> Smith is back!


john?  we are indeed living in the end times


----------



## Greebo (May 11, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> he's not that little - about six foot and very broad shouldered.


He's small on the inside.  Small of heart, small of mind, small of guts.


----------



## Libertad (May 11, 2015)

Greebo said:


> He's small on the inside.  Small of heart, small of mind, small of guts.



A soldier for christ, the cunt.


----------



## Greebo (May 11, 2015)

Libertad said:


> A soldier for christ, the cunt.


WWJD?  Probably send IDS to the boss upstairs or, worse still, forgive him and then send him on his way with a fully healed and vocal social conscience which would screw up the his remaining life.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 11, 2015)

Greebo said:


> WWJD?  Probably send IDS to the boss upstairs or, worse still, forgive him and then send him on his way with a fully healed and vocal social conscience which would screw up the his remaining life.



Half a denarii for me bloody life story?


----------



## newbie (May 11, 2015)

Belushi said:


> *aspirations are an individual thing* achieved by fucking someone else over, *rather than something best achieved moving forward as a class*.



You'd have to be well into your 70s to remember any different.  For those of us younger than that there are essentially no significant examples to point to where class mobilisation has led anywhere other than failure. Yet don't we all know people who have gained, via wealth accumulation, the individual choices and control over their own life that the middling classes have and the working classes lack?  Don't most who lack that, want it?  

The narrative that individual aspiration can (doesn't always) succeed is reinforced day after day by observing those that have clambered out of the working class over the past few decades.  


the bit I didn't bold may be true but it's a rather abstract truth for most people.  Plenty of households have gained from huge recent house prices rises and low interest rates. They may be thought to have done so at the expense of those renting and of savers, but they've not directly exploited anyone and can point to eg btl landlords or tax credit subsidised employers as being much more directly guilty. Very few mainstream politicians have even really tried to turn that abstraction concrete in the last few decades, and those that tried have failed because there are too many net beneficiaries.  We live in a stakeholder society, and pointing out that not everyone holds a stake hasn't gone anywhere for a very long time.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 11, 2015)

Maybe you start with health and education. Most people want a good local school and good local healthcare. That can only be achieved together.


----------



## Greebo (May 11, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Half a denarii for me bloody life story?




Thanks, I needed that.


----------



## newbie (May 11, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Maybe you start with health and education. Most people want a good local school and good local healthcare. That can only be achieved together.


maybe, but attitudes are indicated by the numbers for whom the equality based system doesn't provide sufficient personal advantage- those who can afford it will pay term by term, or buy private tutors to pass selective entrance or buy a home in the catchment area, but for those with less means it costs little to attend some church on sunday or get active in a PTA in order to get the right contacts.

A sane and consciously fair society would shun those who behave like that, instead those who simply send their sprogs to the local school worry they're not doing quite as much as they should...


----------



## belboid (May 11, 2015)

Ashcroft has released his post election poll - which makes for quite interesting reading, even if we cant believe  a word of it anymore. http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-con...RD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-Post-vote-poll-summary1.pdf


----------



## Orang Utan (May 11, 2015)

oryx said:


> Galloway challenging election result!
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32685844


What a sore loser - he is such a dick


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> What a sore loser - he is such a dick


he can afford to be litigious as fuck given all the money he makes out of russian and iranian media.

A fedora really becomes him


----------



## Belushi (May 11, 2015)

He out-cunted himself in this election with his attacks on his opponent


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2015)

Belushi said:


> He out-cunted himself in this election with his attacks on his opponent


what was it he did again- accused her of being a fake muslim or something? takfiring it is probably his next style anyway


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2015)

Yup he did indeed, regardless of any brilliant speeches he has made in the past. His reputation took a complete nosedive for me.


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> what was it he did again- accused her of being a fake muslim or something? takfiring it is probably his next style anyway


http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-shah-forced-marriage-nikah-bradford-hustings


----------



## Quartz (May 11, 2015)

belboid said:


> Ashcroft has released his post election poll - which makes for quite interesting reading, even if we cant believe  a word of it anymore. http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-con...RD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-Post-vote-poll-summary1.pdf



Wow. Look at Table 2: 11% made up their mind on the last day.

Look also at Table 6: 25% voted for the best candidate regardless of party and 19% voted tactically.


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2015)

belboid said:


> Ashcroft has released his post election poll - which makes for quite interesting reading, even if we cant believe  a word of it anymore. http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-con...RD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-Post-vote-poll-summary1.pdf


Scepticism is well placed, but I'm prepared to believe a little more of the 'post-match' analysis that the claims of the pre-election period. Interesting stuff.

Unsurprisingly it's the economy (stupid) and Miliband (& co)'s lack of credibility that catches the eye. Fundamentally the punters believed that paying off the deficit _*and debt  *_is, or should be, a genuine priority for the government. But tbf if both major parties choose to spin that line...who can blame them for believing it to be true?


----------



## Belushi (May 11, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> what was it he did again- accused her of being a fake muslim or something? takfiring it is probably his next style anyway



Accused her of lying about her forced marriage among other things


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2015)

ah thats right. So we can put that lowness next to his rape apologism and his taking money from anti semites and putins mouthpiece press organ


----------



## emanymton (May 11, 2015)

belboid said:


> Ashcroft has released his post election poll - which makes for quite interesting reading, even if we cant believe  a word of it anymore. http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-con...RD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-Post-vote-poll-summary1.pdf


Half the green vote where former lib-dem voters then.


----------



## ska invita (May 11, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Scepticism is well placed, but I'm prepared to believe a little more of the 'post-match' analysis that the claims of the pre-election period. Interesting stuff.
> 
> Unsurprisingly it's the economy (stupid) and Miliband (& co)'s lack of credibility that catches the eye. Fundamentally the punters believed that paying off the deficit _*and debt  *_is, or should be, a genuine priority for the government. But tbf if both major parties choose to spin that line...who can blame them for believing it to be true?


also #9 Tory voters are disproportionaly feeling "the benefits of the recovery" <lucky them!


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Half the green vote where former lib-dem voters then.


The real horror-show in that table is the less than 2/3 2010 Lab voters who stuck with the party! They avoided wipe-out courtesy of the LD wipe-out (24% = 2010 LDers), but that won't always be there.


----------



## belboid (May 11, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Half the green vote where former lib-dem voters then.


Hardly surprising, the people who Labour had totally fucked off looked for a supposedly anti-tory 'radical' alternative, then found they were actually tories too, so jumped again.


----------



## ska invita (May 11, 2015)

brogdale said:


> The real horror-show in that table is the less than 2/3 2010 Lab voters who stuck with the party! They avoided wipe-out courtesy of the LD wipe-out (24% = 2010 LDers), but that won't always be there.


overall the Labour vote went up a percentage point on 2010 though I think I read elsewhere...


----------



## Combustible (May 11, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Accused her of lying about her forced marriage among other things



I wonder if those are the "false statements" he wants to challenge in court...


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> he's not that little - about six foot and very broad shouldered.



He's got the soul of a bantam rooster, embodied in the form of an ostrich.


----------



## treelover (May 11, 2015)

God, Cameron and the 22 Committee gloating like crazy.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 11, 2015)

Enjoying reading Mhairi Black's tweets from when she was 15: 'maths is shite'


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

treelover said:


> God, Cameron and the 22 Committee gloating like crazy.


i don't know why, it's not like they have a sixty seat majority or anything


----------



## andysays (May 11, 2015)

treelover said:


> God, Cameron and the 22 Committee gloating like crazy.



I can understand Cameron and the 22 Committee gloating, but God as well? That's all pretence at divine neutrality out the window...


----------



## ska invita (May 11, 2015)




----------



## kabbes (May 11, 2015)

What's notable is just how blue that map of England remains.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 11, 2015)

David: "me and Ed can still be brothers"


> Former Foreign Secretary David Miliband has criticised his brother Ed's leadership of the Labour Party.
> 
> He told the BBC Labour had lost the general election because voters "did not want what was being offered".
> 
> ...


Well, that's fucking sporting of you.


----------



## Belushi (May 11, 2015)

Sibling divorce laws are way overdue


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 11, 2015)

kabbes said:


> What's notable is just how blue that map of England remains.


My thinking also. Everyone else all but wiped out, but there they stand.

Suggesting it's not the right who are missing someone to vote for...


----------



## treelover (May 11, 2015)

Very bad news, according to The Times, the new Business Secretary Sajid David, is considering implementing the Beecroft Report, basically hire and fire, you , you, not you...

ffs, and there is not really any organised labour to stop him.


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2015)

FPTP; dontcha love it?


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2015)

brogdale said:


> FPTP; dontcha love it?



pah, nonsense.

That'd only take them down to 324


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2015)

belboid said:


> pah, nonsense.
> 
> That'd only take them down to 324


Well maybe so, but to get 322 only adds another 345 votes (Kemptown). So...1246 votes in total, to be precise, could theoretically have prevented the majority administration.


----------



## treelover (May 12, 2015)

> The prime minister said the Tories needed to show they were the party of compassion by pressing ahead with reforms to welfare and education. Finally, he said, the Tories needed to bring the UK together.





> The pundits might call it ‘blue-collar Conservatism’, others being on the side of hardworking taxpayers. I call it being the real party for working people: giving everyone in our country the chance to get on, with the dignity of a job, the pride of a paycheck, a home of their own and the security and peace of mind that comes from being able to support a family.”
> 
> “And just as important – for those that can’t work, the support they need at every stage of their lives.”




From guardian update, double plus good


----------



## treelover (May 12, 2015)

> he forgot to announce his appointment of The Alien as minister for the disabled



from CIF


----------



## Dogsauce (May 12, 2015)

Here we go then, Murdoch to get his payback:


----------



## Celyn (May 13, 2015)

I saw this on Twitter and thought it was interesting:




(It was posted on Twitter by Simon Hix, Head of LSE Government Department @simonjhix )


----------



## kabbes (May 13, 2015)

The mistake that makes is in assuming that the 2010 Lib Dem vote was all "Centre".  In truth,  a lot of it was tactical.  Lots of Labour supporters in constituencies that Labour couldn't win, for example,  voted Lib Dem to keep the Tories out.  In 2015 they just didn't bother.


----------



## tbtommyb (May 13, 2015)

ska invita do you have a source for that map? it's interesting.


----------



## ska invita (May 13, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> ska invita do you have a source for that map? it's interesting.


random twitter thing, but this article goes more in depth http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ral-election-if-it-were-a-party-10238290.html
and suggests the Didn't Vote party wouldve won it


----------



## Idris2002 (May 13, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> David: "me and Ed can still be brothers"
> Well, that's fucking sporting of you.


----------



## Celyn (May 13, 2015)

"Herald" Wed 13/05/2015


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 13, 2015)

Celyn said:


> I saw this on Twitter and thought it was interesting:
> 
> 
> View attachment 71438
> ...



More reason to hate lib dems.


----------



## JHE (May 13, 2015)

Celyn said:


> "Herald" Wed 13/05/2015


... yeah, except that I don't think they are going to renege on their promise of more devolution to Scotland.  (Reneging on that promise would be the biggest mistake a unionist could make at this point.)


----------



## DJWrongspeed (May 13, 2015)

Sour grapes or impartial BBC?  from Tom Baldwin in the Guardian
He was one of Miliband's advisor's.


----------



## Celyn (May 13, 2015)

JHE said:


> ... yeah, except that I don't think they are not going to renege on their promise of more devolution to Scotland.  (Reneging on that promise would be the biggest mistake a unionist could make at this point.)



Yeah, I also thought that bin didn't _quite_ belong there. But the Human Rights and the anti-union stuff is damn scary,


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 13, 2015)

Another quote that borders on the mildly terrifying:



			
				Cameron said:
			
		

> "For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'," he will say.



Talking about new laws to target 'radicalisation'.


----------



## kabbes (May 13, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Another quote that borders on the mildly terrifying:
> 
> 
> Talking about new laws to target 'radicalisation'.


Bloody hell, that doesn't even pretend, does it?


----------



## tbtommyb (May 13, 2015)

ska invita said:


> random twitter thing, but this article goes more in depth http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ral-election-if-it-were-a-party-10238290.html
> and suggests the Didn't Vote party wouldve won it


The assumption of the labour right in this leadership campaign seems to be that they got their core vote and that wasn't enough so they need to pick up more going right. I wonder if that map indicates they didn't really get their core vote but I think we need more detailed analysis


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 13, 2015)

Fucking hell.

A tsunami of shit is being unleashed. Difference between a tiny majority and a large minority govt might be huge.


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2015)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Fucking hell.
> 
> A tsunami of shit is being unleashed. Difference between a tiny majority and a large minority govt might be huge.


cue the LibScum going 'see, I told you we made a difference'


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2015)

JHE said:


> ... yeah, except that I don't think they are going to renege on their promise of more devolution to Scotland.  (Reneging on that promise would be the biggest mistake a unionist could make at this point.)


did you follow the No campaign? they nearly lost it for themselves


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2015)

Fred's daughter likes the gays now...



I bet Jack's turning in his hedgerow...and as for Bunty....How!


----------



## damnNAFTA (May 13, 2015)

Read an interesting take on the reaction of Blairites in Labour and the future of the party. Some parts that stood out to me: 


> Within hours of the result, John Reid, Blair’s most effective henchman, was publicly savaging Miliband, asserting that Labour lost because it was “on the wrong side” of the most important arguments, from the economy to immigration.
> 
> On May 9, another Blairite cabinet minister, Alan Johnson, called on the Labour Party to learn the lessons of Blair’s three consecutive election victories.
> 
> ...


Link to the whole thing: http://www.politico.eu/article/labour-recovery-uk-election-blair/


----------



## tbtommyb (May 13, 2015)

i found this interesting: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/05/labour-lost-the-working-class-vote-a-long-time-ago/



> In 1966, 69 per cent of manual workers gave their X to Labour at election time. This number waned through the 1970s and 1980s until, by 1987, only 45 per cent of manual workers voted Labour. The greatest desertion was among skilled manual workers. Between 1945 and the end of the 1950s, around 60 per cent of these workers supported Labour; by the time of the mid-1980s only 34 per cent did.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Blairites are often accused of ruining Labour, abandoning its traditional voters and ideals. This turns history upside down. New Labour is better understood as a _response_ to something that had already happened: the slow but sure abandonment of Labour by working-class voters, which left Labour a shell, ripe for a takeover by a middle-class professional set. It was working-class voters who sealed Labour’s fate, not Labour that sealed theirs.



however i'd need someone who knew the history better to tell me whether it's bollocks or not.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2015)

> It is important to remember that Labour came into existence more than a century ago precisely in order to protect working men against immigrant (mainly Irish) competition which drove down wages and stole jobs.



alarm bells a-ringing here


----------



## passenger (May 13, 2015)

Labour where the ukip of there day ?


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> alarm bells a-ringing here


good thing it's somewhat wide of the truth


----------



## chilango (May 13, 2015)

Hmmmm.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 13, 2015)

chilango said:


> Hmmmm.



sounds bollocks to me.


----------



## free spirit (May 13, 2015)

People joining to be able to vote.

I'd bet that includes those union members registering as affiliated supporters as well, with the unions pushing their members to affiliate.


----------



## treelover (May 13, 2015)

This happened last time, lots of enthusiasm from young people, then zilch.


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2015)

treelover said:


> This happened last time, lots of enthusiasm from young people, then zilch.


Yup, they join wanting to fight back against the Tories, then realise that that just isn't what the labour party _does_. And they can't really influence anything - unless they want to be a candidate in a no hope council seat, because no one else wants to. Is that all there is?  Yup.


----------



## chilango (May 13, 2015)

...but, but there's those Labour Left people working for change from within! They could join those guys, no? Their time is surely now?


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2015)

belboid said:


> Yup, they join wanting to fight back against the Tories, then realise that that just isn't what the labour party _does_. And they can't really influence anything - unless they want to be a candidate in a no hope council seat, because no one else wants to. Is that all there is?  Yup.


hey, they're struggling to find people who want to stand in council seats where they'll win, too.


----------



## co-op (May 13, 2015)

killer b said:


> hey, they're struggling to find people who want to stand in council seats where they'll win, too.



Oh christ yes, it's easy to find someone who'll stand as a paper candidate in a no-hope ward. Finding someone who actually wants to be a councillor, that is nigh impossible, it's why so many of them are such weirdoes, they are literally the only people who would step forward. This is true of just about all parties, not just Labour. The careerists who are using it as a stepping stone are one in a hundred in most places.


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2015)

Yep, metropolitan centres only for the careerists. Everywhere else it's inbreds & panty sniffers.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2015)

belboid said:


> good thing it's somewhat wide of the truth


I meant about the veracity of the whole article you plank


----------



## mk12 (May 13, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> i found this interesting: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/05/labour-lost-the-working-class-vote-a-long-time-ago/
> 
> 
> 
> however i'd need someone who knew the history better to tell me whether it's bollocks or not.



It is interesting. Does  it mean the rest of w/c voters went Tory (I know they did in the 80s), or was the vote spread out more widely?


----------



## pinkychukkles (May 13, 2015)

Don't forget about the 2001 monolith, sorry, Ed's Stone... it's been located:


> Ed Miliband is licking his wounds in Ibiza but his much maligned “Ed Stone” has suffered a less glamorous exit from the spotlight and is languishing in a south London garage, the Guardian has learned.
> 
> http://gu.com/p/48pcn/stw



Some amusing BTL comments:


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2015)

killer b said:


> hey, they're struggling to find people who want to stand in council seats where they'll win, too.


"Yes, you too can apologise for and justify cuts while you piss into the wind!"


----------



## CNT36 (May 14, 2015)

chilango said:


> ...but, but there's those Labour Left people working for change from within! They could join those guys, no? Their time is surely now?


Person.


----------



## belboid (May 14, 2015)

Inside the Milibunker


----------



## treelover (May 16, 2015)

Oh my, apparently posted up in Manchester.


----------



## Greebo (May 16, 2015)

treelover said:


> <snip>


Some day, let it be soon.


----------



## Patteran (May 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> Oh my, apparently posted up in Manchester.



(Definitely Manchester, if it matters - Manchester Rd in Chorlton)


----------



## brogdale (May 19, 2015)

thread coming to a close?


----------



## treelover (May 20, 2015)

Just read that Steve Rotherham got 82% in Walton, is he superman?, Walton has some quite posh bits, baffled by that level of support.


----------



## brogdale (May 22, 2015)

Guardian account of Ipsos Mori's GE analysis.

Can be summed up..


> *The general election result can be summarised in a nutshell: the Conservatives did well with voters that turn out. Labour did well with voters who don’t vote.*


----------



## Belushi (May 22, 2015)

I see Ed Balls has announced he's retiring from politics, which is a little odd as I thought that decision had been taken by the voters a fortnight ago.


----------



## brogdale (May 22, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I see Ed Balls has announced he's retiring from politics, which is a little odd as I thought that decision had been taken by the voters a fortnight ago.


----------



## butchersapron (May 26, 2015)

IWCA view:

Who will fill the vacuum?

(I think the piece needs to define _euro-nationalist_ a bit clearer, i don't think it fits for UKIP at all)



> The roots of Labour’s crisis are quite simple. The New Labour project was underpinned by the belief that Labour could ditch Clause 4, embrace neo-liberalism and orientate entirely to the middle class, safe in the knowledge that its working class core vote could be taken for granted because, in Peter Mandelson’s words, they had ‘nowhere to go’.





> What this demonstrates is that the BNP’s success, and indeed that of UKIP, has very little to do with the innate charm of these parties and is more symptomatic of working class disillusionment with the political centre, Labour specifically. From 1997 onwards, directly coincident with the emergence of New Labour, electoral turn-out has fallen well below its post-war trend of around 75%, with 65% now seemingly established as the new norm (link). As the progenitors of the IWCA wrote in 1995: ‘In straightforward language, it is the politics of the Labour Party that has created the BNP… Labour and the Left are increasingly alien to working class people’ (link). The Oxford academics Geoffrey Evans and Jon Mellon wrote just before the 2015 election that ‘Labour’s move to the ‘liberal consensus’ on the EU and immigration alienated many of their core voters a long time before UKIP were an effective  political presence. These disaffected core voters left Labour in 1997, 2001, 2005 and 2010 and went to other parties—or simply stopped voting. UKIP has since attracted these disaffected former Labour voters, particularly from the Conservatives… the damage to Labour’s core support had already been done by new Labour’s focus on a pro-middle class, pro-EU and, as it eventually turned out, pro-immigration agenda, before the arrival of UKIP as a plausible electoral choice in the years following the 2010 election’ (link). [It will be interesting to see how much of UKIP's increased support has come directly from Labour this time.]





> So what can be done? There is no reason why Euro-nationalism should be the only political tendency appearing on working class landings, listening and responding to working class concerns. This could and should be the default job of the pro-working class left, and the IWCA experiment has shown that the mainstream parties are as vulnerable to an attack from a progressive working class party as they are to the radical right.
> 
> On a macro scale, why should it be left to UKIP to frame the debate around hot-button topics like the EU and immigration in a reactionary fashion, when progressive pro-working class arguments can be made? The EU is a capitalist project; immigration policy is used to provide a weak, defenceless reserve army of labour for UK plc and keep wages down (the Migration Observatory at Oxford University recently reported  ‘UK research suggests that immigration has a small impact on average wages of existing workers but more significant effects along the wage distribution: low-wage workers lose while medium and high-paid workers gain.’ [link]). This is obvious: why would the EU be anything other than a capitalist project? Why would immigration policy be designed in any other way but to service the needs of capital? In Europe, as elsewhere, the free movement of labour is at the behest of the free movement of capital – that is the way it works. And is best explained in that way. To do otherwise out of sentiment or sensitivity is to sow a dangerous confusion.





> In point of fact, if pro-working class forces can be drawn together down the line, UKIP can be looked at as doing our job for us by breaking off working class support from the mainstream parties. To again quote Evans and Mellon on UKIP’s support: ‘There are two quite distinct social groups that have shown a disproportionately high level of support for radical right-wing parties: the working class and the somewhat quaintly labelled ‘petty bourgeoisie’ (the self-employed—small employers such as shop owners)… working-class and petty-bourgeoisie radical right-wing party voters are divided on economic issues, but share the types of non-economic preferences addressed by radical right wing parties’ [italics added] (link). That UKIP is able to win working class support when it doesn’t even share the economic priorities of those self-same working class supporters is an indictment of the left as it stands, but it also indicates the opportunity that is there for an effective, pro-working class alternative to Labour. But if the battle for working class hearts and minds is to be won, Euro-nationalism will need to be challenged head on by just as compelling and grand a narrative. That is the challenge still.


----------



## Quartz (May 26, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I see Ed Balls has announced he's retiring from politics, which is a little odd as I thought that decision had been taken by the voters a fortnight ago.



I wonder if, like Portillo, he's lined up a nice little earner at the BBC?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (May 26, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> IWCA view:
> 
> Who will fill the vacuum?
> 
> (I think the piece needs to define _euro-nationalist_ a bit clearer, i don't think it fits for UKIP at all)



Fair enough, although a glance at who UKIP are aligned with in the European Parliament is telling.

A more central point for the zombie left and anyone else expressing even a passing interest in pro working class politics is the section throwing down the gauntlet regarding the free movement of labour and the EU, why and who defends it and in whose interests it's applied.


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2015)

Why is it only the tiny IWCA who seem to have a coherent, realistic and genuinely radical appraisal of the situation and the current lefts'(EU wide) failures?

though Podemos, which I think is for open borders got 12% in the local elections in Spain.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 27, 2015)

> The PM has issued a pre speech release
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...for-the-country-in-a-one-nation-queens-speech
> 
> ...




Work work work work work thats all you ever talk about young man


----------



## DotCommunist (May 27, 2015)

> a home of your own



*hollow laughter* yeah right, rentier scum.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 27, 2015)

Next up:  People not earning enough to pay tax chastised as 'scroungers' and undeserving in the popular press, to divide them from those above the threshold.  Certain benefits of society to be only available to those 'paying in'. And so it goes...


----------



## Sea Star (May 27, 2015)

co-op said:


> Oh christ yes, it's easy to find someone who'll stand as a paper candidate in a no-hope ward. Finding someone who actually wants to be a councillor, that is nigh impossible, it's why so many of them are such weirdoes, they are literally the only people who would step forward. This is true of just about all parties, not just Labour. The careerists who are using it as a stepping stone are one in a hundred in most places.


I've said I'll only stand as councillor if I am pretty certain of not winning. Winning would ruin my life!


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Next up:  People not earning enough to pay tax chastised as 'scroungers' and undeserving in the popular press, to divide them from those above the threshold.  Certain benefits of society to be only available to those 'paying in'. And so it goes...




This is what Mitt Romney floated in the presidential elections.


----------



## Joe Reilly (May 28, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> IWCA view:
> 
> Who will fill the vacuum?
> 
> (I think the piece needs to define _euro-nationalist_ a bit clearer, i don't think it fits for UKIP at all)



Ukip is not a party of the far-right. Correct.  But the strategy they are pursuing is, near as dammit, identical (with refinements) to the strategy previously pursued by the BNP. The BNP may be gone from the scene but the pitch from Ukip is having resonance with the same people and for the very same reasons, just to a greater degree. Putting it another way, the efficacy of the strategy itself rather the party that adopts it, is the real challenge.


----------



## Joe Reilly (May 28, 2015)

treelover said:


> Why is it only the tiny IWCA who seem to have a coherent, realistic and genuinely radical appraisal of the situation and the current lefts'(EU wide) failures?



Read the Jean Jaures Foundation report on the French Left quoted in the article and see how closely it corresponds to the attitudes of the Brit Left and you are more than half way to answering your own question.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 29, 2015)

AuntiStella said:


> I've said I'll only stand as councillor if I am pretty certain of not winning. *Winning would ruin my life!*



Winning. Such shit if it ever happens, I've rarely found


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2015)

> Minister worked as spin doctor for tobacco giant that paid workers £15 a month
> 
> Priti Patel worked for PR firm Shandwick on improving BAT’s image over Burma factory, and also lobbied MEPs against EU tobacco regulations
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/business...ked-as-spin-doctor-tobacco-firm-burma-scandal



Well well, but I do wonder if our newly liberated public give a shit about whether foreigners are getting shafted.


----------



## killer b (May 30, 2015)

What's this got to do with the general election?


----------



## killer b (May 30, 2015)

Also, your contempt for the British public is a bit confusing. I thought you were on the side of the common man?


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2015)

killer b said:


> What's this got to do with the general election?




its a general thread, and as for the public, many(a significant amount) seem to have been let off the leash going by the comments about claimants on social media, social darwinists, eugenicists, in some cases. ok?


----------



## killer b (May 30, 2015)

No.


----------



## killer b (May 30, 2015)

Comments on social media are meaningless as a guide to how the public think. Have you learned nothing the last couple of years?


----------



## killer b (May 30, 2015)

Actually, seeing as your stock in trade remains quoting comments from btl in guardian articles here, I guess we know the answer to that already.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 30, 2015)

The Guardian said:


> Minister worked as spin doctor for tobacco giant that paid workers £15 a month
> 
> Priti Patel worked for PR firm Shandwick on improving BAT’s image over Burma factory, and also lobbied MEPs against EU tobacco regulations
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/business...ked-as-spin-doctor-tobacco-firm-burma-scandal



Presumably being a former spin doctor for a combination of repressive regimes and dodgy corporations actually seen as a strong qualification for her new job?


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## Spanky Longhorn (May 30, 2015)

killer b said:


> Actually, seeing as your stock in trade remains quoting comments from btl in guardian articles here, I guess we know the answer to that already.


and remarking on what the SWP are doing or not doing and how that affects or doesn't affect something.


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## Spanky Longhorn (May 30, 2015)

There are probably better threads for this but I can't find them. 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/129...outhampton_MP___s_election_behaviour/?ref=rss

So Kim Rose the eccentric UKIP candidate and local jeweler in Southampton Itchen has accused his Tory rival of trying to use UKIP to undermine Labour. 

There is an interesting sub-plot there in Rose's targeting of working class voters - in 1997 he was the Socialist Labour Party candidate for the same seat. 

What is partcularly interesting though is the Tories use of a picture of Fagin as the placeholder for Rose's pic on the leaflet they designed for him


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## butchersapron (May 30, 2015)

Birth of new social movement that is all the old faces that i love why  all the same faces all the time i don't know these people this is great why is this so bad


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## brogdale (Jun 11, 2015)

So...finally...last night the winners of the 2015 General Election were declared at the Mansion House.


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## yield (Jun 11, 2015)

brogdale said:


> So...finally...last night the winners of the 2015 General Election were declared at the Mansion House.


Osborne swallows loss of £7bn in RBS sell-off

The people get shafted by loss of £7 billion. How many £ billions of budget cuts?


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## brogdale (Jun 11, 2015)

yield said:


> Osborne swallows loss of £7bn in RBS sell-off
> 
> The people get shafted by loss of £7 billion. How many £ billions of budget cuts?


It's almost as though you don't believe Gideon's claim of $14bn "profit" for taxpayers.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 12, 2015)

brogdale said:


> It's almost as though you don't believe Gideon's claim of $14bn "profit" for taxpayers.



I wouldn't believe his numbers if he told me I had five toes on each foot and one hole in my arse.


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## kebabking (Jun 12, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I wouldn't believe his numbers if he told me I had five toes on each foot and one hole in my arse.



indeed, i've noticed how 'sweating like George Osborne in a maths test' has begun to replace 'sweating like Gordon Brown in a maths test'....


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## William of Walworth (Jun 12, 2015)

Even from a purely City-centric perpective, selling off now is a bad reading of the market.


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## brogdale (Jun 13, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Even from a purely City-centric perpective, selling off now is a bad reading of the market.


But Pratley regards the decision as some sort of a 'rational' economic or financial one. We all know that this is an ideologically driven, political act of largesse


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## David Clapson (Jun 4, 2021)

<burp>

Ed Miliband, the useless, pointless dickhead, has been reminiscing about his defeat.  Ed Miliband: I'm still recovering from time as Labour leader  What isn't mentioned in the article is whether he should have opposed his brother. How would David have done in that election? Has there been any reliable research?


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## magneze (Jun 4, 2021)

Badly


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## brogdale (Jun 4, 2021)

magneze said:


> Badly


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## gosub (Jun 4, 2021)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 271811


He does a lot of work for charity.






and will talk about it if you pay him.


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