# Brixton is a village and local businesses need to ensure they are engaged with the local community.



## Lee Japser (Jul 14, 2012)

Lee Jasper Chair of Brixton Splash writes on the failure of some Brixton businesses to engage with the local community.   You can read more here.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 14, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Lee Jasper Chair of Brixton Splash writes on the failure of some Brixton businesses to engage with the local community. You can read more here.


Thanks Lee, great to hear about all the stuff that's happening for Brixton Splash.





			
				http://leejasper.blogspot.co.uk/ said:
			
		

> However whilst this has been fantastic I have to say locally we are more than disappointed at the response from some of the businesses in central Brixton.
> This includes some big names such as KFC alongside new businesses that have recently opened up and some of the larger local businesses that have been in Brixton for some time.


 
It's real shame some businesses aren't willing to offer a bit of support. Brixton splash brings thousands of people out on to the streets and is bound to generate lots of cash/customers for those businesses.

It wouldn't be the first time a local business has been criticised for failing to engage with the community: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...arty-community-space-run-by-brick-box.292936/


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## boohoo (Jul 14, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Lee Jasper Chair of Brixton Splash writes on the failure of some Brixton businesses to engage with the local community. You can read more here.


Interesting article. Does Brixton have the biggest Jamaican community in London?


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## boohoo (Jul 14, 2012)

How much money did businesses have to donate?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 14, 2012)

boohoo said:


> Interesting article. Does Brixton have the biggest Jamaican community in London?


 
I thought it had the largest Jamaican community in the UK

Maybe other cities have more though?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 14, 2012)

Some figures here on Wiki, but doesn't narrow the London ones down by Council

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Jamaican


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## boohoo (Jul 14, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I thought it had the largest Jamaican community in the UK
> 
> Maybe other cities have more though?


 
  Lewisham and  Croydon as boroughs have a bigger West Indian communities. However that doesn't breakdown to what Island they are from.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2012)

Wasn't the concept of Splash tea-leafed from a local publican by the local political classes?


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## fortyplus (Jul 14, 2012)

So, Lee Jasper didn't get as much sponsorship as he budgeted for. 
There is an attitude that sees all businesses as having unlimited amounts of spare cash they could easily spare for such good causes.
But we don't. Mostly, we hope each month or quarter that we'll make enough money to pay the rent. We're not swanning off on long cruises, we don't have either the time or the money.  We have to watch every penny.
Brixton Splash is a great event; if my business isn't participating this year it's not because we don't want to, it's because we can't spare the resources (cash and time) to do so.
Just because we don't join in one particular politico's pet project, it doesn't mean we're not committed to being part of the community. My business partner and I have both lived most of our lives in Brixton, and creating jobs here is as important to us as the hope that one day we might make a fat profit.


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## Alo Licentia! (Jul 14, 2012)

Lee Jasper's time has past. After what he did, no one will ever take him seriously again.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 14, 2012)

What did he do?


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## Rushy (Jul 14, 2012)

I suspect that, rightly or wrongly, a lot of businesses don't trust Lee Jasper and don't want to contribute cash to a pot which he manages. The threatening tone of his blog towards those who choose not to contribute shows a serious lack of judgement imo. Always better to alert people to what they are missing by not joining in rather than to infer that they will be punished for not doing what you want.


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## Alo Licentia! (Jul 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What did he do?


Resigned as advisor to Ken Livingstone after showing very poor judgement on a number of issues.
He let us down.


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## OpalFruit (Jul 14, 2012)

So now some poor business, operating close to the line, struggling, and the owner losing money (and certainly earning a whole lot less than Lee jasper was on taxpayers money as an advisor), is going to be 'named and shamed' for not having the cash or business capacity to take part?

Credit the sponsors, by all means, but it's a bit rich to march into Brixton as a non-resident and someone who does not support those businesses week by week as a customer, and start castigating them!

Some of the big chains or businesses in Brixton are very community orientated. M&S gives vouchers to small local charities, the maganer of the McDonalds supports many community intiatives, Morleys donates the christmas tree, etc.


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## Gramsci (Jul 14, 2012)

Well I just read the blog again. Seems both large and small businesses are being criticised. Also long established small traders and shops. Who are also struggling with the possibilities of higher rents.


"There is much controversy and debate about the changing nature of Brixton. There are concerns that the African and Caribbean community is being slowly squeezed out by ever increasing rents inflated by increased demand."

But then the blog says among those who have not contributed are:

" the majority of the major butchers and meat wholesalers and market stall holders all of whom rely on local shoppers."

These small market stall holders are also in danger of being slowly squeezed out. A lot of them are longstanding small traders and shops.

Notice that San Marino was singled by name as one of the newer businesses not contributing. I thought they had been around for a while? Had been in another premises in Brixton Road. Or am I wrong on this one? Does anyone know how long they have been here?

I did chat to one local business. Did say that they had received a info pack on Brixton Splash. I asked if they had been asked for contribution at same time as being given info pack . They said no.


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## Rushy (Jul 14, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> Well I just read the blog again. Seems both large and small businesses are being criticised. Also long established small traders and shops. Who are also struggling with the possibilities of higher rents.
> 
> Notice that San Marino was singled by name as one of the newer businesses not contributing. I thought they had been around for a while? Had been in another premises in Brixton Road. Or am I wrong on this one? Does anyone know how long they have been here?


 
San Marino says "since 1993" on its canopy.


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## Gramsci (Jul 14, 2012)

I tried to find how much sponsorship BS wanted from local business. 

 BS have set up different levels of sponsorship. But give no indication of how much money they want donated for each level .

See here- click on  Download sponsorship information pack

http://www.brixtonsplash.org/?page_id=427


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## Gramsci (Jul 14, 2012)

Rushy said:


> San Marino says "since 1993" on its canopy.


 
Thanks Rushy. Well as far as Im concerned that makes them well established business.


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## editor (Jul 14, 2012)

> There are some notable exceptions to this and we will be publishing a full list of those businesses that have sponsored Brixton Splash 2012 and those that did not.


I really don't think is a productive way forward. 

How much were they being asked to pay?


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## Gramsci (Jul 14, 2012)

Alo Licentia! said:


> Resigned as advisor to Ken Livingstone after showing very poor judgement on a number of issues.
> He let us down.


 
I would rather read the blog piece as representing the views of Brixton Splash as a whole. It does say:

*A message from Lee Jasper Chair of Brixton Splash:"*​ 
I take this as saying that his piece has been done with the agreement of the rest of those who organise Brixton Splash and is not just his opinion.
​​​


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## Rushy (Jul 14, 2012)

The sponsorship document says:


> "Participation in the Brixton Splash 2011 corporate sponsorship programme will provide you with a year round profile and presence within Brixton’s large and growing community, it will create brand and product awareness to your target audience within Lambeth and enhance your competitiveness within London’s business community."


It would seem that businesses don't think what is being offered is all that useful / good value for money. Mr Jasper should be asking himself how he can improve what he is offering rather than taking a destructive and petulant approach.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> So, Lee Jasper didn't get as much sponsorship as he budgeted for.
> There is an attitude that sees all businesses as having unlimited amounts of spare cash they could easily spare for such good causes.
> But we don't. Mostly, we hope each month or quarter that we'll make enough money to pay the rent.


 
That'll be the rent that the local authority gives you no help with, and that your landlord keeps raising in leaps and bounds (or so I've heard) despite protests from a majority of tenants?


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2012)

Alo Licentia! said:


> Lee Jasper's time has past. After what he did, no one will ever take him seriously again.


 
Did they ever anyway, outside of his political clique?


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## Rushy (Jul 14, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> I would rather read the blog piece as representing the views of Brixton Splash as a whole. It does say:
> 
> *A message from Lee Jasper Chair of Brixton Splash:"*​
> I take this as saying that his piece has been done with the agreement of the rest of those who organise Brixton Splash and is not just his opinion.
> ​​​


I think that is unlikely. I'd very confidently wager that he is just mouthing off by himself.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2012)

Rushy said:


> I think that is unlikely. I'd very confidently wager that he is just mouthing off by himself.


 
He has a fair bit of form for *that*, too.


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## paulhackett (Jul 14, 2012)

Does it matter the OP is Lee JaPser and not Lee JaSper?


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## quimcunx (Jul 14, 2012)

Rushy said:


> The sponsorship document says:
> 
> It would seem that businesses don't think what is being offered is all that useful / good value for money. Mr Jasper should be asking himself how he can improve what he is offering rather than taking a destructive and petulant approach.


 
I'm not sure how it would/does do this?


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## Rushy (Jul 14, 2012)

paulhackett said:


> Does it matter the OP is Lee JaPser and not Lee JaSper?


Yes it does. It means the taxpayer paid over 100k pa for an 'expert' who cannot even spell his own name correctly in public.


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## Gramsci (Jul 14, 2012)

paulhackett said:


> Does it matter the OP is Lee JaPser and not Lee JaSper?


 
It crosses my mind that the poster is not Lee Jasper himself. This is the internet. 

I did wonder whether it is really Lee Jaspers blog. I hope it is and I have not been trolled.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2012)

Alo Licentia! said:


> Resigned as advisor to Ken Livingstone after showing very poor judgement on a number of issues.
> He let us down.



Oh you mean the subject of three independent investigations (including one police) all of which cleared him of wrongdoing? Yeah I can see how someone doing nothing wrong is disappointing...


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## Boudicca (Jul 15, 2012)

Setting aside what he has done or not done in the past, I do find the tone of the blog aggressive and it certainly does not encourage me to participate.  He needs to understand how tough it is for small businesses at the moment.

I used to have a shop in Granville Arcade and there were always people coming in asking for donations.  You have to be there with your door open, you are a sitting target but you can't say yes to everyone.  He might be better to approach the more hidden Brixton businesses, tucked in offices in the back streets, who could benefit from the publicity.


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## Gramsci (Jul 15, 2012)

I agree with you Boudicca. Ive checked and this does look like it is his blog and not some troll.

Im surprised at the tone. It is threatening.

Also the blog says that:

"Brixton Splash Ltd is a non-profit company that supports economic development and employment opportunities for young people"

The BS website states it is a yearly festival to celebrate Brixtons diversity. So this aspect of it is new. Makes it more into a all year pressure group.


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## editor (Jul 15, 2012)

"Support my organisation or your name's goin' on da list"


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## MAD-T-REX (Jul 15, 2012)

Heh, his blog post on John Terry ends with "This perverse judgment should be appealed." I'm not sure he gets acquittals.


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## urbanspaceman (Jul 15, 2012)

Jasper's (leejasper) twitter feed contains a long list of businesses that have failed to "engage" as he puts it. Or declined to hand over money to his company as I would put it. Brixton Splash is a not-for-profit company, not a registered charity.

He accuses:

@*BrixtonSundownr*
@*velocal*
@*Brixton_Bugle*
@*iheartbrixton*
@*BrixtonEXP*
@*Kaosarn_Brixton*
@*loungebrixton*
@*CourtesanDimSum*
@*KaffBar* 
@*NourCashCarry*
@*RosieLovell* 
@*MamaLans*
@*honestburgers*
@*brixcornercopia*
@*bellantonis*
@*TheAgileRabbit*
@*sevenatbrixton* 


And this was on his Facebook feed:

"This 'hair & beauty" shop refused point blank to support Brixton Splash 2012 and were rude to boot. Why do we shop with people who treat us with contempt ? Beauty Choice Cosmetics -33 Atlantic Road Brixton, London SW9 8JL Why not ring and ask them? 020 7274 3358"​ 
So the nail bars, halal butchers and hipster restaurants have all disappointed Jasper. These places employ hundreds of people, pay their rents and taxes, and provide a dizzying variety of services to the people of Brixton/Lambeth/London and to New York Times readers. That's more than Jasper has ever done, and it's good enough for me.


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## OpalFruit (Jul 15, 2012)

My advice to Brixton Splash would be to turn the question on themselves and start engaging with the business community earlier on the year and be nice! It takes ages to encourage someone to sponsor an event or make a significant donation.

Also, maybe I am readng it all wrong, but while multiculturalism does seem to be thriving in Brixton, to Brixton's benefit, making a stand to protect one community only is perhaps not the way to approach a wide diversity of businesses.
The diversity of Briton is becoming more diverse - with a rise over the last 10 years of the Latin / Portuguese / S American businesses, and others. Many of the Windrush generation retired back to the Caribbean and (some of) their grandchildren shop in Tesco, Lidl and M&S. Others sold up in Brixton and moved to places like Purley.

Sadly the arcades were also emptying out before the current food places moved in. When LAP, or possibly the owners before them, moved in, they immediately raised rents by 30% and businesses started closing. It was because the arcades were so empty that Spacemakers were called in. Remember all the long gone arcade shops? The batik fabric shop shrunk, the purveyors of massive sea-going trunks closed down - many of the Caribbean and West African businesses were already leaving. It is a growing myth that the restaurants are squeezng out the Windrush Generation.

Brixton is a part of London. Rents go up everywhere.


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## fortyplus (Jul 15, 2012)

Naming and shaming those who didn't sponsor is, frankly, unacceptable. We're not on his list, yet, but after this I'm quite sure we won't be sponsoring it. We know and talk to lots of the business owners on that list, and they will not be happy; I don't suppose they're likely to sponsor next year either.
There are plenty of reasons why local businesses decide not to sponsor these things, usually connected with time as much as money. Sponsorship, to be effective, has to be followed up; if you  just pay your money and hope for the punters to flock to your shop  as a result you'll be disappointed; the follow-up needs management effort diverted from something else. It's a judgement call, and we may have called it wrong by ignoring Brixton Splash this Olympic year, but I suspect not.

To imply that we're turning our backs on the community by turning down this offer is insulting; to name and shame is verging on malicious.

If he hopes for any local business support in 2013, he needs to apologise, publicly and graciously now.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2012)

I wouldn't hold your breath.


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## DietCokeGirl (Jul 16, 2012)

I also wonder =how= these businesses were approached. I get plenty of mailshots and cold callers, both in work and at home and dismiss them immediately out of principle.Brixton Splash is a new and not especially well-known name. Networking and relationship building go a long way to help to be taken seriously, rather than sending out an unexpected 'sponsorship pack'.


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## claphamboy (Jul 16, 2012)

I've been involved in organising various community and charity events over the years, it's a bit of a bummer getting turned down by potential sponsors, but that's life, there's a lot of call on their resources, I would never have even thought of 'naming & shaming' those that didn't take up the offer of a sponsorship opportunity for whatever reason, that just beggars belief - in fact it seems like blackmail to me, very nasty.


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## claphamboy (Jul 16, 2012)

DietCokeGirl said:


> I also wonder =how= these businesses were approached. I get plenty of mailshots and cold callers, both in work and at home and dismiss them immediately out of principle.Brixton Splash is a new and not especially well-known name. Networking and relationship building go a long way to help to be taken seriously, rather than sending out an unexpected 'sponsorship pack'.


 
Indeed, on the flip side of my previous post I've been approached for sponsorship for events (as a station manager at a 24/7 pirate radio station in Ireland during the 80s, as the group special project manager of a small independent family owned free newspaper group and as publisher of my own 25,000 print-run free monthly what's on magazine) when money was tight, but I could offer a contra-deal of free advertising/air-time/interviews/editorial, but even then there were limits on what airtime and space was available, I couldn't help every single approach.

One thing for sure, if I knew that by not offering support I would be 'blacklisted', be buggered if I would support that event, there's no way I would be blackmailed into something like that.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2012)

Alo Licentia! said:


> Resigned as advisor to Ken Livingstone after showing very poor judgement on a number of issues.
> He let us down.


but most of all he let himself down


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## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> One thing for sure, if I knew that by not offering support I would be 'blacklisted', be buggered if I would support that event, there's no way I would be blackmailed into something like that.


i'm sure we can find something proper to blackmail you with into attending.


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## boohoo (Jul 16, 2012)

Brixton Splash should sponsor the Brixton village for bringing in new people to Brixton all of the year!


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## claphamboy (Jul 16, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm sure we can find something proper to blackmail you with into attending.


 


I doubt anyone could find anything on me to be able to blackmail me into anything nowadays (  ), any wrong doings and the darker sides of my life were never that major, and are many years behind me anyway, thank God, it does make life easier not having to worry about any skeletons popping out of the cupboard when you least expect them TBH.


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## urbanspaceman (Jul 16, 2012)

Here's Jasper's response to my comment on Brixtonblog.


> Urbanspaceman
> The general culture of private sector engagement with community organisations is poor through the UK. Our difficulty relates not to our approach the reality is some Brixton’s business have rarely of ever sponsored local community organisations. That culture need to change its important that at time of austerity cuts that business reassess the extent to which they are embedded in the local community of Brixton. Brixton Splash intend to spark that debate by simply educating local consumers about those business that demonstrate their commitment to local community initiatives . In the autumn we will be holding public debate about these issues in order to raise general awareness about the potential for local business to help address in partnership the many burgeoning issues facing communities in Lambeth.
> Your comment seems to wilfully miss the point that Brixton Splash while we asked for financial support we also asked for help in kind in particular support for local employment, secondments or mentor opportunities for unemployed young people. We think its important that the local community can make informed choices about where they choose to spend their money as they do when considering ethical sourcing of goods or environmental l concerns. Social responsibility of local business is a legitimate concern
> The point here is that we believe that all business could contribute something toward tackling the serious social problems that are becoming acute in areas like Brixton. That is not the case currently and that has to change if we are to promote the development of cohesive communities and thriving local economies.
> That surely is a goal we all share.


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## Badgers (Jul 16, 2012)

Did Brick Box contribute?


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Did Brick Box contribute?


Apparently not. 


> Many of the new restaurants and cafes in central Brixton have also simply refused to support the event. Most have, to date not even had the courtesy to acknowledge our appeal. Sam Marino Café refused, *as did all of the businesses in the Village.*
> http://leejasper.blogspot.co.uk/


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## northsouthfood (Jul 16, 2012)

urbanspaceman said:


> Jasper's (leejasper) twitter feed contains a long list of businesses that have failed to "engage" as he puts it. Or declined to hand over money to his company as I would put it. Brixton Splash is a not-for-profit company, not a registered charity.
> 
> He accuses:
> 
> ...


 
Half the people listed above aren't even businesses! Iheartbrixton is a Twitter account that suggests drycleaners and dinner plans to people. The Bugle has had one copy so far. Has Sundownr ever even happened? And the rest are mainly new businesses who may not have the resources to engage in their first year. His approach sounds scattergun. I wonder if he's linked up Brixton Pound or any of the non profit employment brokers in the borough (not A4E types) to maximise interest and make businesses feel confident about what's going on?

I'd like to see more local businesses being community minded, but I'm not sure yelling at them, offering limited info about the updated aims of Splash and then bad mouthing them is the way to get them on board and it probably causes long term damage.


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

northsouthfood said:


> Half the people listed above aren't even businesses! Iheartbrixton is a Twitter account that suggests drycleaners and dinner plans to people. The Bugle has had one copy so far.


FYI: the Brixton_Bugle is the BrixtonBlog. I'd say they're already doing their bit to publicise Brixton.


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## Onket (Jul 16, 2012)

And anyway, since when has it been acceptable to post up a link to your blog & fuck off, without even attempting to enter into the debate?


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## quimcunx (Jul 16, 2012)

Don't they claim fabulous advantages to sponsoring brixton splash?  Surely that should be bigging them up with much thanks for their contribution not just not slagging them off along with anyone else who has resisted their charming invitation for whatever reason.


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## OpalFruit (Jul 16, 2012)

Mentoring and training young people is a serious business. It is time consuming, and if done properly demands some training on behalf of the mentee / trainer. Getting good valuable workplace experience is essential for young people in Brixton, but again it takes a particular approach to get businesses to engage and be able to take on the role effectively. I don't suppose many of the tiny kitchen-and-no-office space businesses in  the arcades can even physically accommodate a teenager-in-training. Maybe family businesses have family members as apprentices. Brixton Splash need to consult and engage and be realistic - and hopefully then be successful in making a positive impact.

However, having seen LJ support so many dodgy 'youth programmes' (including on the outskirts of Brixton at the Offley Rd centre) I would not engage with this particular outfit. I would work with other reputable voluntary sector organisations.

Shame, because as a festival Brixton Splash is a good day.


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## boohoo (Jul 16, 2012)

OpalFruit said:


> Mentoring and training young people is a serious business. It is time consuming, and if done properly demands some training on behalf of the mentee / trainer. Getting good valuable workplace experience is essential for young people in Brixton, but again it takes a particular approach to get businesses to engage and be able to take on the role effectively. I don't suppose many of the tiny kitchen-and-no-office space businesses in the arcades can even physically accommodate a teenager-in-training. Maybe family businesses have family members as apprentices. Brixton Splash need to consult and engage and be realistic - and hopefully then be successful in making a positive impact.


 
It's a huge responsibility too. Most small businesses do not have the experience or resource to do this. Having a bad work experience would not be ideal for an unemployed young person.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

trying to  get businesses into  doing apprenticeships is a big thing.  i'm on the  teaching side of things  and  it's a bit of a mess.  it's often not got  a solid enough  concept of what an apprenticship is.    it's the bastered offspring of  the future jobs fund and  jobcenter trainting


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

I've been asked a fair few times about taking on interns for urban75. Much as I love the idea, with no office and no income it's not really possible, and seeing as it's a glorified hobby, I'm not sure what use I'd be anyway.


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## Rushy (Jul 16, 2012)

OpalFruit said:


> Mentoring and training young people is a serious business. It is time consuming, and if done properly demands some training on behalf of the mentee / trainer. Getting good valuable workplace experience is essential for young people in Brixton, but again it takes a particular approach to get businesses to engage and be able to take on the role effectively. I don't suppose many of the tiny kitchen-and-no-office space businesses in the arcades can even physically accommodate a teenager-in-training. Maybe family businesses have family members as apprentices. Brixton Splash need to consult and engage and be realistic - and hopefully then be successful in making a positive impact.
> 
> However, having seen LJ support so many dodgy 'youth programmes' (including on the outskirts of Brixton at the Offley Rd centre) I would not engage with this particular outfit. I would work with other reputable voluntary sector organisations.
> 
> Shame, because as a festival Brixton Splash is a good day.


 
And LJ does not seem to be offering any support at all. Just telling people that they want mentors 'or else'. He needs to lead by example but does not have the skills to do so.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 16, 2012)

editor said:


> I've been asked a fair few times about taking on interns for urban75. Much as I love the idea, with no office and no income it's not really possible, and seeing as it's a glorified hobby, I'm not sure what use I'd be anyway.


 
You could give a 16-year-old moderator duties on the Politics forum


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You could give a 16-year-old moderator duties on the Politics forum


I think that would put them off work for life.


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## northsouthfood (Jul 16, 2012)

editor said:


> FYI: the Brixton_Bugle is the BrixtonBlog. I'd say they're already doing their bit to publicise Brixton.


 
Exactly. They are a different name for something already promoting the hell out of Brixton and just starting out in a paper form that is mean to be inclusive to those not online and Lee Jasper thinks it's beneficial to badmouth them...


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## Ted Striker (Jul 16, 2012)

As a rank outsider, the whole blackmail route (for that is what it is) is frankly outrageous. If that doesn't ring alarm bells with anyone thinking of getting into bed with such a shady operator, then nothing will.

In the end it will be more decisive as often the "he who shouts loudest" message will split and detract from the good causes that need to benefit from such schemes.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2012)

editor said:


> I think that would put them off work for life.


some good would come of it then


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

editor said:


> I've been asked a fair few times about taking on interns for urban75. Much as I love the idea, with no office and no income it's not really possible, and seeing as it's a glorified hobby, I'm not sure what use I'd be anyway.


 
the company we used to work with   got  one of out web design students  a webdesing apprenticship  in a resturant.


the scary thing was it was one of the best as he got a booth with free internet  and  lunches on the house.


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## ricbake (Jul 16, 2012)

From Brixton Splash web site

Food Court -- Cost per pitch size:
£450 – 6m x 3m pitch size
£350 – 3m x 3m pitch size
£250 – 3m x 3m pitch size, soft drinks only
£300 – Ice cream van pitch
Exhibitors/Info - Cost per stall:
£110 – 14’ x 7’ stall size
£75 – 7’ x 7’ stall size
£50 - 7’ x 7’ stall size Registered Charities

*Thank You to our Supporters:*

Jamaican National, Lambeth Community Fund, The Metropolitan Police, MacDonalds, The Electric Social, Satay Bar, Deli Jerk, The Voice, South London Press and Vibes FM.
There is no mention of H&M - Boots - The Phone Companies - Morleys - TX Max - Currys - Halfords
The website Twitter and Facebook links aren't working 
It looks like they haven't got themselves as well organised as they might . . . .


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 16, 2012)

Alo Licentia! said:


> Lee Jasper's time has past. After what he did, no one will ever take him seriously again.


 
Care to spell it out? Are you referring to the largely unproven accusations of the Evening Standard that were since rebuked.

I've always enjoyed Brixton splash but I do hope it doesn't lead into another riot. It was of course all peaceful last year until well after the music stopped.


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## quimcunx (Jul 16, 2012)

Brixton splash didn't 'lead to another riot'.

And I don't really understand why you're bringing it up in this context.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

In response to some of the more serious comments above.

The general culture of UK private sector engagement with community organisations is poor throughout the UK.

It is important to say that we have had a good level of local business support and I am pleased to say more are expressing an interest and coming on board. But it could and should be better.

Our particular local difficulty relates not to our overall approach or offer, as I explain below. This reluctance reflects the general disinclination of some businesses to support community groups. The reality is some of Brixton’s business have never or sponsored or supported local community organisations and that needs to change .

This is critically important particularly at time of austerity cuts where business need to reassess their added value in an increasingly competitive market and the extent to which they are seen to be embedded and supportive in the wider local community of Brixton.

Brixton Splash intends to spark that debate by simply educating local consumers and promoting those business that demonstrate their commitment to local community initiatives not just in regards to Splash but their charitable work across the board.

In the autumn we will be holding public debate about these issues in order to raise general awareness about the potential for local business to help address working in partnership with the many local community groups and charities seeking to tackle the burgeoning social and economic issues facing communities in Lambeth.

Yes business are struggling which is why we are proud that Brixton Splash brings so much additional income to local businesses . However it is to be remembered that customers and their families with some of the highest levels of unemployment and deprivation are also struggling.

Another important point is that Brixton Splash not only asked business to consider financial support. We also requested alternative help in kind for those business who were unable to support by way of sponsorsphip. In particular we asked for support for young people seeking local employment, secondment or mentor opportunities for unemployed young people wanting to start a business. This gave maximum flexibility to small business to think creatively about their contribution in kind which is often more valuable than a cash sponsor in the longer term.

In any event common courtesy suggests that when a businesses receives such a request that they at least respond whatever their decision.

We think it is increasingly important that the local community can make informed choices about where and with whom they choose to spend their money . Shopper are increasing sophisticated and now consider factors such as ethical sourcing of goods and environmental issues when making choices. Social responsibility of local business is a legitimate concern and one that will become increasingly important for customers.

The point here is that we believe that all business could contribute something, in whatever way best suits them, toward tackling the serious social problems that are becoming acute in areas like Brixton. That is not the case currently with some business and we believe that has to change if we are to promote the development of cohesive communities and thriving local economies.


----------



## tufty79 (Jul 16, 2012)

ricbake said:


> MacDonalds


and they can't even spell their sponsor's name right 
or use spellcheck on the body of their post.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 16, 2012)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I've always enjoyed Brixton splash but I do hope it doesn't lead into another riot. It was of course all peaceful last year until well after the music stopped.


 
I thought it was getting a little unsettled around Windrush Square and a couple of the sound systems in the last hour before everything finished at 7. I went home about 5 and came out again at 6 and the vibe had definitely changed. Much more testosteroney, for want of a better description, and looked like some 'steaming' was going on.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

i think we need to go about separating the general issue of business' interaction with the community with brixtons splash's particular lack of response.

i can imagine  many businesses  would  be  disinclined to  buy into a third party's conception of comunity interaction  especially if it does not synch  with their  ideas of what the comunity needs


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## boohoo (Jul 16, 2012)

Rushy said:


> I thought it was getting a little unsettled around Windrush Square and a couple of the sound systems in the last hour before everything finished at 7. I went home about 5 and came out again at 6 and the vibe had definitely changed. Much more testosteroney, for want of a better description, and looked like some 'steaming' was going on.


 
That's seems to be normal at large gatherings. I think if there had not been rioting in north London, there would not have been rioting across the country.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 16, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Brixton splash didn't 'lead to another riot'.


 
I said "lead into" not lead to, I was just raising concerns of violence during the summer hols again generally. Wasn't trying to make a direct connection, apologies.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Our particular local difficulty relates not to our approach as I explain below this reflecting the general disinclination of some businesses to support community groups.


 
And there we have it. It's everyone else's fault.


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## Rushy (Jul 16, 2012)

boohoo said:


> That's seems to be normal at large gatherings. I think if there had not been rioting in north London, there would not have been rioting across the country.


 
I was responding to DJWS's comment that it was all peaceful until after the music stopped. I didn't think it was entirely. I'm not relating that to the later riots.


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## biggus dickus (Jul 16, 2012)

Brixton just isn't a village in any sense of the word


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## quimcunx (Jul 16, 2012)

biggus dickus said:


> Brixton just isn't a village in any sense of the word


This is also true.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

yeah. are shop owner  members of the community already?   do  they not already employ from the local populace?  do they have a business community?  

for most small businesses they already  have  a  community presence.  they are not faceless coperations manned  by  people  from outside the local area.


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## ricbake (Jul 16, 2012)

I'm curious about the  http://www.brixtonsplash.org/ website design
The designer http://creationz.co.uk/ have a working link from every page, quite a prominent link. They are a company based out in Harlow, one would think there might be a local webdesigner who they could pay in Brixton Pounds or perhaps in kind.
The sponsors logo are all links that don't go anywhere. The Download a Sponsorship Pack gives no indication that it is a link until the cursor reaches it.
The sponsorship pack gives no indication of what sort of money they are looking for.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 16, 2012)

biggus dickus said:


> Brixton just isn't a village in any sense of the word


well, it's not surrounded by fields and open countryside, but it's still a relatively small area home to a community where people know each other and are clustered around a 'centre'. Not really worth arguing about semantics here tbh.


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## biggus dickus (Jul 16, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> well, it's not surrounded by fields and open countryside, but it's still a relatively small area home to a community where people know each other and are clustered around a 'centre'. Not really worth arguing about semantics here tbh.


 
It isn't worth arguing because it's such a stupid thing to say

It isn't a village. Brixton is not an egg, a hat, an animal, a vegetable, a mineral, or a village


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

Ted Strikers comments are 





Ted Striker said:


> As a rank outsider, the whole blackmail route (for that is what it is) is frankly outrageous. If that doesn't ring alarm bells with anyone thinking of getting into bed with such a shady operator, then nothing will.
> 
> In the end it will be more decisive as often the "he who shouts loudest" message will split and detract from the good causes that need to benefit from such schemes.


 
Your comments are risible and frankly conform to a racial stereotype . Of course all black men in Brixton are ' shady operators" and engaged in "blackmail". Whilst such comments are outrageous unfortunately being black and living in Brixton we are used to such inane drivel posed as serious commentary.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

bit early for the race card


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## tufty79 (Jul 16, 2012)

OP: *are* you actually Lee Jasper?


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 16, 2012)

here we go....


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## Rushy (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Ted Strikers comments are
> 
> Your comments are risible and frankly racist . Of course all black men in Brixton are ' shady operators" and engaged in "blackmail". Whilst such comments are outrageous unfortunately being black and living in Brixton we are used to such inane drivel posed as serious commentary.


 
And here comes the race card.
Surprised it took so long.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

The thread of the discussion is local business engagement with local community organisations. It is interesting that debate now seems to be focussing on " riots".


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

it was all going so well...

do we  need  a racial equivalent of a godwin's?


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## tufty79 (Jul 16, 2012)

tufty79 said:


> OP: *are* you actually Lee Jasper?


just in case you missed it


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## snowy_again (Jul 16, 2012)

I've just bought some popcorn in preparation for this thread...


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

We are pushing for a debate on the issues . Play the ball not the man.


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## Ted Striker (Jul 16, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> it was all going so well...
> 
> do we need a racial equivalent of a godwin's?


 
"I'm calling _Japser's_ on this one"


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

ricbake said:


> From Brixton Splash web site
> 
> Food Court -- Cost per pitch size:
> £450 – 6m x 3m pitch size
> ...


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

Facebook and twitter accounts are all ok  the link has broken is all. Thanks for pointing this out.


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Your comments are risible and frankly racist


Could you explain why the comments are 'racist' please because I'm really not seeing the connection.


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## biggus dickus (Jul 16, 2012)

edit


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

Ted Striker said:


> "I'm calling _Japser's_ on this one"


 
i'm thinking  an ali g.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

biggus dickus said:


> stuff


bit early to play the hate card


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## Rushy (Jul 16, 2012)

editor said:


> Could you explain why the comments are 'racist' please because I'm really not seeing the connection.


This explanation could be up there with his "No black person in the UK can be racist" statement.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 16, 2012)

biggus dickus said:


> It isn't worth arguing because it's such a stupid thing to say
> 
> It isn't a village. Brixton is not an egg, a hat, an animal, a vegetable, a mineral, or a village


I think you're taking it a bit too literally. It's a metaphor.


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## biggus dickus (Jul 16, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> bit early to play the hate card


 
Never too early

I'm leaving this thread anyway. I have nothing to add. I've only been to Brixton twice lol


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> bit early to play the hate card


Always too early to post up those kind of deeply unpleasant comments.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

editor said:


> Could you explain why the comments are 'racist' please because I'm really not seeing the connection.


 
The accusation that the sponsoring pack of Brixton Splash was an attempt at blackmail and the accusation of us being "shady characters" is stereotypical that is out of order. The inference is that we are engaged in some sort of criminal activity. Its a disgraceful thing to say. We have raised legitimate issues and this is type of response is  malicious and libellous. We are more than happy to debate the wrights and wrong of our approach but such comments are designed to obscure genuine debate and descend into mud slinging.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> The accusation that the sponsoring pack of Brixton Splash was an attempt at blackmail and the accusation of us being "shady characters" is stereotypical that is out of order. The inference is that we are engaged in some sort of criminal activity. Its a disgraceful thing to say. We have raised legitimate issues and this is type of response is malicious and libellous. We are more than happy to debate the wrights and wrong of our approach but such comments are designed to obscure genuine debate and descend into mud slinging.


 
out of order is not equal to racist.

also  i would say that your naming and shaming (if you don't wish to  call it the B word) is exactly the same thing. mud slinging.

let he who is with out sin throw the first mud


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## tufty79 (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> We are more than happy to debate the *wrights* and wrong of our approach










still not sure whether you've seen my question asking if you're lee jasper?


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## Rushy (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> The accusation that the sponsoring pack of Brixton Splash was an attempt at blackmail and the accusation of us being "shady characters" is stereotypical that is out of order. The inference is that we are engaged in some sort of criminal activity. Its a disgraceful thing to say. We have raised legitimate issues and this is type of response is malicious and libellous. We are more than happy to debate the wrights and wrong of our approach but such comments are designed to obscure genuine debate and descend into mud slinging.


Rightly or wrongly you are seen by many as a shady character who is not immediately trustworthy (or even likeable). Like it or not, that is probably an important factor in Splash's failure to get enough support from local businesses. If not causal, it certainly will not have helped.
It is up to you to convince everyone otherwise but instead you have decided to sling mud at those who have not immediately welcomed you. That never impresses anyone.
Calling people racist for thinking you are dodgy is not going to help your cause because everyone can see that you have no argument. Even if you can't see it.


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## ricbake (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> In response to some of the more serious comments above.
> ... snip


 
Hello Mr Jasper 
And if I may be so bold, welcome to Urban75.

The debates available here are many, varied and on very many different levels. Trolls, philosophers, anarchists, idealist, the clever, brilliant, wayward, bored, inane, inept and semi conscious all post here in what ever condition they find themselves at the moment. 
Local issues as I'm sure your aware always attract colourful responses. Your opening sentence quoted above is where to keep your aim and keep in mind most threads will have a devils advocate or two to keep them warm.

I'm sure the Brixton Splash will be excellent, hopefully it won't be a financial nightmare for the organisers.

Kind regards


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## northsouthfood (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Facebook and twitter accounts are all ok the link has broken is all. Thanks for pointing this out.


 
Can you clarify what measures you have put in place to allow businesses to offer employment opportunities to people who are currently unemployed? Were Splash going to offer the insurance to take people on for the day to get work experience? Were they going to liaise between businesses and the JobCentrePlus about the problems of doing work while on benefits? Were they going to cover the expenses for people to take up this as work experience rather than unpaid work that might lead to unemployed people being taken advantage of, have benefits problems and get businesses into hot water? There are rules to be observed. It's not bob a job week out there

I'd want to know all that before my intentions of offering a local kid some work experience in the local community could happen. And yeah, the website company not being local who make me wary. Why aren't Splash leading by example and keeping it Brixton based? Because I agree that this should be an opportunity used to the max...


----------



## urbanspaceman (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Ted Strikers comments are
> 
> Your comments are risible and frankly conform to a racial stereotype . Of course all black men in Brixton are ' shady operators" and engaged in "blackmail". Whilst such comments are outrageous unfortunately being black and living in Brixton we are used to such inane drivel posed as serious commentary.


 
Assuming that you really are LJ, and not a satirical imposter, out to damage the real LJ's reputation: did anybody say "all black men" ?

And are you "in Brixton". An old Evening Standard story suggests that you live in an agreeable street in Clapham.

www.standard.co.uk/news/kens-117000-aide-lives-in-90pw-council-house-6651527.html

Of course you might have moved since then. And Brixton is not a village, but contiguous with the rest of London, so it normally it would be silly to obsess about whether you lived strictly with the five wards of Brixton. But you've made this about Brixton per se.

So, to play the ball and not the man:

1) Several commentators, who actually run businesses in Brixton, have observed that they are constantly asked for charitable donations, and don't have the money or time to attend to these requests. One commentator pointed out that to get a good response, it's necessary to build a relationship and familiarity, and not just walk in and ask for money a few weeks before the event. What was your approach ? Did you expend the necessary time and energy to cultivate relationships with these businesses ?

2) Another commentator pointed out that the new mentoring aspect of Brixton Splash is a major departure from running a street festival, and that making a good job of mentoring/placement schemes is arduous, complicated and requires sustained effort. If anyone asked me to support a mentoring scheme, I would want to see a detailed, written plan. Did you present such a plan to these businesses ?

3) Brixton Splash is a non-profit company. Now you might think that this is a personal attack, but there has been a lot of adverse comment in the press about your previous funding activities.

www.standard.co.uk/news/auditor-condemns-ken-aide-in-city-hall-funding-scandal-6741798.html

The District Auditor said that your behaviour in channelling grants to close associates was “not appropriate,” that you concealed your personal relationships with them in a “conflict of interest” and that your conduct fell below “the standards expected” from a GLA officer. The auditor also observed grants to your associates had not passed through the normal procurement process and that City Hall “could not demonstrate that [it] had achieved value for money” from any of the payments.

No doubt the District Auditor is a racist too, but I think it's reasonable to say that many people would require a bit more due diligence before handing over money, when aware of this kind of history.

Why not publish Brixton Splash's accounts on your website, along with detailed info on income and expenditure ? Surely the more transparent you are to the community the better ?


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

northsouthfood said:


> Can you clarify what measures you have put in place to allow businesses to offer employment opportunities to people who are currently unemployed? Were Splash going to offer the insurance to take people on for the day to get work experience? Were they going to liaise between businesses and the JobCentrePlus about the problems of doing work while on benefits? Were they going to cover the expenses for people to take up this as work experience rather than unpaid work that might lead to unemployed people being taken advantage of, have benefits problems and get businesses into hot water? There are rules to be observed. It's not bob a job week out there
> 
> I'd want to know all that before my intentions of offering a local kid some work experience in the local community could happen. And yeah, the website company not being local who make me wary. Why aren't Splash leading by example and keeping it Brixton based? Because I agree that this should be an opportunity used to the max...


 
We are in partnership with the Green Man Employment Zone and the Brixton JobCentreplus who are working with us to offer these opportunities.  I can send you more specific information about this shortly if you are interested. We have over 40 young people volunteering for us at the moment and we are jointly assessing individuals training needs and benefit status with a view to matching them with any local opportunities we can secure.  Actually our website designer is from Brixton we commissioned that site in 2010 and he has subsequently moved. We are experienced in dealing with the rules relating to youth employment training and I hope this provides  you with some reassurance on that point.


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

urbanspaceman said:


> Assuming that you really are LJ, and not a satirical imposter, out to damage the real LJ's reputation: did anybody say "all black men" ?
> 
> And are you "in Brixton". An old Evening Standard story suggests that you live in an agreeable street in Clapham.
> 
> ...


 
2. We asked for simple expressions of interest with a view to a follow up with our partners Green Man Employment Zone and Jobcentreplus.

3. The matters you raise here are a fair point however the fact is that  the Auditor also found that no grants were "channelled to close associates " no evidence of " corruption or fraud " facts confirmed by the Boris own Forensic Audit Panel chaired by Sunday Times editor  Patience Wheatcroft and the subsequent investigation by DLA Piper Forensic Accounts. I , through the then Mayor, requested that he refer the whole of these fabricated allegations for investigation by the Police who 2 years later completely cleared all 17 individuals, including myself and their associated organisations.

I cannot answer in terms of the GLA in terms of their failure to provide the Auditor with the information he required. Suffice to say that whilst the Auditor accepted that all monies had been accounted for because of the failure of the GLA he could not demonstrate " value for money was achieved. It is to be noted the Auditor refused to take evidence of delivery from the groups themselves despite them offering to provide this.

 In relation to his comments re standards and conflict of interest Im sorry I take a different view . The Chief Executive of the GLA at the time July 2007 issued a report looking into these specific allegations whilst I was in post and he concluded that there were no conflicts of interest and all appropriate declarations had been made. I acted on that advice however the Auditor took a different view. 

In any event this is all so much ancient news having occured some 5 years ago. 

I am more than happy to publish Brixton Splash accounts which have had full and forensic scrutiny by all those who fund our event in the period I have been chair from 2010 onwards. All have been more than happy with our accounts. ItAll have continued to fund because they are confident in our accounting systems. Thats why this year has been more successful than in previous years in terms of our fundraising efforts


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2012)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Care to spell it out? Are you referring to the largely unproven accusations of the Evening Standard that were since rebuked.
> 
> I've always enjoyed Brixton splash but I do hope it doesn't lead into another riot. It was of course all peaceful last year until well after the music stopped.


 
Rebutted or refuted, not rebuked.


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

northsouthfood said:


> Exactly. They are a different name for something already promoting the hell out of Brixton and just starting out in a paper form that is mean to be inclusive to those not online and Lee Jasper thinks it's beneficial to badmouth them...


 
Shoot the messenger all you like but at the end of the day I have said clearly that our debate will include, highlight and applaud those business that are supporting other local charitable or community initiatives other than Brixton Splash. Had we received such a responses they would have been welcome. The point is to spark a debate and that has been achieved. The festival bring tremendous economic and social benefit to Brixton and seeking to encourage a culture of engagement from local businesses in addressing the issues of unemployment and poverty is a win win for everybody whether thats through Brixton Splash or some other organisation.


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

ricbake said:


> Hello Mr Jasper
> And if I may be so bold, welcome to Urban75.
> 
> The debates available here are many, varied and on very many different levels. Trolls, philosophers, anarchists, idealist, the clever, brilliant, wayward, bored, inane, inept and semi conscious all post here in what ever condition they find themselves at the moment.
> ...


 
Thanks for the welcome and I will be sure to stay focussed.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> In response to some of the more serious comments above.
> 
> The general culture of UK private sector engagement with community organisations is poor throughout the UK.


 
There's a surprise. Big business doesn't give a shit, and most small businesses can't afford to, thanks to "the credit crunch" and Gideon Osborne's attempts at social cleansing via housing policy (less disposable income in boroughs like Lambeth)



> It is important to say that we have had a good level of local business support and I am pleased to say more are expressing an interest and coming on board. But it could and should be better.
> 
> Our particular local difficulty relates not to our overall approach or offer, as I explain below. This reluctance reflects the general disinclination of some businesses to support community groups. The reality is some of Brixton’s business have never or sponsored or supported local community organisations and that needs to change .


 
Is coming across/allowing yourselves to be perceived as attempting to strong-arm local businesses into participation the right way to bring about change? Myself, I'm not sure it is. What most small businesses look for is some sort of _quid pro quo_. If they don't feel that what *you* offer *them* is relevant to their business, they're not going to put their hands in their pockets.



> This is critically important particularly at time of austerity cuts where business need to reassess their added value in an increasingly competitive market and the extent to which they are seen to be embedded and supportive in the wider local community of Brixton.


 
Arghhh! Business-speak!
Are you sure most local businesses don't actually continually re-calibrate their practices and products to suit the needs of local markets? They wouldn't last very long if they didn't.



> Brixton Splash intends to spark that debate by simply educating local consumers and promoting those business that demonstrate their commitment to local community initiatives not just in regards to Splash but their charitable work across the board.
> 
> In the autumn we will be holding public debate about these issues in order to raise general awareness about the potential for local business to help address working in partnership with the many local community groups and charities seeking to tackle the burgeoning social and economic issues facing communities in Lambeth.


 
The biggest social issues facing us locally are ones you can't do anything about: High rental prices; continued diminution of local authority social housing stock through "Right to Buy" and "gentrification".
Without dealing with such issues, which unfortunately local community groups have no ability to tackle, the demographic changes being wrought will do what the Tory party, riot, police oppression and "new Labour" malice couldn't - it'll wipe away the local working class even from our _enclaves_ on local estates.



> Yes business are struggling which is why we are proud that Brixton Splash brings so much additional income to local businesses . However it is to be remembered that customers and their families with some of the highest levels of unemployment and deprivation are also struggling.
> 
> Another important point is that Brixton Splash not only asked business to consider financial support. We also requested alternative help in kind for those business who were unable to support by way of sponsorsphip. In particular we asked for support for young people seeking local employment, secondment or mentor opportunities for unemployed young people wanting to start a business. This gave maximum flexibility to small business to think creatively about their contribution in kind which is often more valuable than a cash sponsor in the longer term.
> 
> In any event common courtesy suggests that when a businesses receives such a request that they at least respond whatever their decision.


 
Not being saucy, but how did you contact them? If it was via e-mail, you made a rod for your own back. So many businesses don't respond to e-mails it's ridiculous, and that's *if* your e-mail gets past their spam filters.
A letter in the post, enclosing a (2nd class) SAE is obviously more expensive (£1+ a throw, factoring manpower and stationer costs), but it's also slightly more likely to get a reply



> We think it is increasingly important that the local community can make informed choices about where and with whom they choose to spend their money . Shopper are increasing sophisticated and now consider factors such as ethical sourcing of goods and environmental issues when making choices. Social responsibility of local business is a legitimate concern and one that will become increasingly important for customers.
> 
> The point here is that we believe that all business could contribute something, in whatever way best suits them, toward tackling the serious social problems that are becoming acute in areas like Brixton. That is not the case currently with some business and we believe that has to change if we are to promote the development of cohesive communities and thriving local economies.


 
True, but how you do it is almost as important as getting it done.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2012)

biggus dickus said:


> It isn't worth arguing because it's such a stupid thing to say
> 
> It isn't a village. Brixton is not an egg, a hat, an animal, a vegetable, a mineral, or a village


It's a state of mind. A Brixton state of mind.

Oh, and there *is* (unfortunately) a new private housing development that pushes the theme of "Brixton Village" (pronounced "villaage", some wags claim), but given that they're aiming their properties at people who can scare up £300,000 for a small flat, I suppose they feel entitled to engage in a bit of marketing hyperbole.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> The accusation that the sponsoring pack of Brixton Splash was an attempt at blackmail and the accusation of us being "shady characters" is stereotypical that is out of order.


 
Unfortunately, it *comes across* as such an attempt, and as an experienced media hand such as yourself should be well-aware, if something can be *perceived* in an incorrect manner, it *will* be, whether by over-earnest types who take offence easily, or by the sort of yellow press that have kicked you in the arse in the past. You've given a hostage to fortune. Why are you surprised that some people might use it?



> The inference is that we are engaged in some sort of criminal activity. Its a disgraceful thing to say. We have raised legitimate issues and this is type of response is malicious and libellous. We are more than happy to debate the wrights and wrong of our approach but such comments are designed to obscure genuine debate and descend into mud slinging.


 
That's kind of how bulletin boards work, Mr. Jasper. They're not fora where you can drop in, say your piece and expect people to immediately conform to your expectations of good behaviour. 9 times out of 10 mudslinging happens, but {and this is crucial) it also clears the air and allows preconceptions to be corrected. It's give and take.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Shoot the messenger all you like but at the end of the day I have said clearly that our debate will include, highlight and applaud those business that are supporting other local charitable or community initiatives other than Brixton Splash. Had we received such a responses they would have been welcome. The point is to spark a debate and that has been achieved. The festival bring tremendous economic and social benefit to Brixton and seeking to encourage a culture of engagement from local businesses in addressing the issues of unemployment and poverty is a win win for everybody whether thats through Brixton Splash or some other organisation.


 
Splash started as a community event/celebration - not a business opportunity. So it seems a bit much to tell businesses that they are now benefiting from an event which few, if any of them, asked for and must therefore contribute towards or face consequences. You need to show them what additional benefit they can get by contributing. And, like it or not, you just have to keep reaching out until either you win their hearts or you decide that you are flogging a dead horse.

You keep talking about these hard times but do not seem to understand how a small business operates and the huge demands on the operators time and cash. That you say you sent them a letter and were outraged that they didn't reply just shows that you do not understand the pressures on small businesses resources. So many politicians are given huge budgets, like the one you refer to in your profile, which they did nothing to earn and armies of administrative support to deal with everything. But that's not the world the rest of us live in.

Your language is usually one of confrontation and your propensity to respond to criticism with cries of racism and discrimination makes you a highly ill-judged figurehead, in my opinion. I am surprised that you were given this role and I really hope that your personal character does not taint the nature of this event which is held on my doorstep.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> out of order is not equal to racist.
> 
> also i would say that your naming and shaming (if you don't wish to call it the B word) is exactly the same thing. mud slinging.
> 
> let he who is with out sin throw the first mud


 
"Identity politics", Shippy. Something we had in the '80s where people challenged words and phrases on the grounds that they denigrated a group or individual, ergo "blackmail" = bad word. Less clinical than "coercion" or "extortion" though, which are the immediately obvious synonyms.
Also "shady characters" could, if you were being politically-correct (  ), be construed as solely referring to non-white criminal types, even though the use of "shady" to mean "of dubious legality" originates from before Windrush.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

i would promote such an idea if it wasn't that such a niggardly use of my personal lexicon would blacken my name.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i would promote such an idea if it wasn't that such a niggardly use of my personal lexicon would blacken my name.


 
Bad Shippy! Naughty Shippy!!!
Go to your room!!


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

fine.  i shall never darken your door again.


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## Alo Licentia! (Jul 16, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei? Are you the real Lee Jasper?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

I'm pleading the 5th on that one.


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## fortyplus (Jul 16, 2012)

FWIW my business has just taken on four apprentices; all young men from South London. We haven't been approached by Mr Jasper or Brixton Splash, but his organisation is just one of several trying to place neets. If he'd come to us before we might well have taken them on through him.  But for the next few months, our mentoring and training capacity is fully taken up. 
The only thing I object to about this whole issue is the "name-and-shame" of those businesses who don't participate ("blackmail" is too strong, and loaded, a term for this. We have nothing to hide). I can understand the frustration, but as a business owner, I know that there are many reasons for refusing any of the plethora of requests for our resources. We work in and depend on the community; we just don't have the resources to respond positively to everything that comes our way, but we would love to be able to do so.  

I love Brixton Splash as an event and I really hope it continues to prosper;  I'd really like to feel good about sponsoring it in 2013. But I am afraid this episode leaves a rather nasty taste in the mouth.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

How goes the neets?

having  worked with one  brixton based  neet related company (who i will not name and shame here)  i wish you good luck.  if you don't do your  own recruting your in for a world of pain.   in therms of  training they sent down tones of people  to train with us.  including   people they sent to us  for  courses we do not run  and they wouldn't fund.    they also asked for the imposible in some cases and the implausable  regularly.


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## equationgirl (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> We are in partnership with the Green Man Employment Zone and the Brixton JobCentreplus who are working with us to offer these opportunities. I can send you more specific information about this shortly if you are interested. We have over 40 young people volunteering for us at the moment and we are jointly assessing individuals training needs and benefit status with a view to matching them with any local opportunities we can secure. Actually our website designer is from Brixton we commissioned that site in 2010 and he has subsequently moved. We are experienced in dealing with the rules relating to youth employment training and I hope this provides you with some reassurance on that point.


Sounds like some form of workfare program if you're working with the job centre plus. Is this the case?


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

Rushy said:


> Splash started as a community event/celebration - not a business opportunity. So it seems a bit much to tell businesses that they are now benefiting from an event which few, if any of them, asked for and must therefore contribute towards or face consequences. You need to show them what additional benefit they can get by contributing. And, like it or not, you just have to keep reaching out until either you win their hearts or you decide that you are flogging a dead horse.
> 
> You keep talking about these hard times but do not seem to understand how a small business operates and the huge demands on the operators time and cash. That you say you sent them a letter and were outraged that they didn't reply just shows that you do not understand the pressures on small businesses resources. So many politicians are given huge budgets, like the one you refer to in your profile, which they did nothing to earn and armies of administrative support to deal with everything. But that's not the world the rest of us live in.
> 
> Your language is usually one of confrontation and your propensity to respond to criticism with cries of racism and discrimination makes you a highly ill-judged figurehead, in my opinion. I am surprised that you were given this role and I really hope that your personal character does not taint the nature of this event which is held on my doorstep.


 

I have lived in Lambeth for 30 years Local businesses are reflected on our Board by Blackdread Music Store a founder member of Splash. As for our remit thanks for your views but your mistaken. Part of our core objectives is the promotion the local economy of Brixton and provide employment opportunities to local young people.

You seem to be suggesting that business have no local accountability other than the conduct of their business. If consumers and businesses can have debates about issues such as  the environment or animal welfare I can see no reason why a debate about helping people is any way different and should be accorded similar priority. This is our 8th year and our view is that the benefits of Brixton Splash are evident for all to see. 

I sorry you think my language is confrontational but I can assure that was not my intention however that will not detract from our determination to explore the issues of corporate social responsibly and the role of large, medium and small businesses in facilitating  community development in Brixton. Within that debate there will be room to accommodate all perspectives into a strategy that seeks to promote business involvement. Ultimately the issue of consumer choice is primary and seeking to raise awareness of the issues of business enragement and social responsibility will be aired and debated. 

I understand the demands of small business and those that we work with seem to find the time to communicate with us even where they are unable to engage. Its a simple as a call or a email.

Your are entitled to your opinion on my suitability as chairman of Brixton Splash that does not chime with the huge local support for the event and the way in which my involvement has been positively welcomed by the local community. For your information and to further reinforce my point  I am also vice chair of the Lambeth Police Consultative Group. So your surprise about my position indicates the extent to which you are uniformed about the local Brixton community.  Thanks for you comments.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Sounds like some form of workfare program if you're working with the job centre plus. Is this the case?


 
No I can assure you we are certainly not engaging with the much discredited workfare programme.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Unfortunately, it *comes across* as such an attempt, and as an experienced media hand such as yourself should be well-aware, if something can be *perceived* in an incorrect manner, it *will* be, whether by over-earnest types who take offence easily, or by the sort of yellow press that have kicked you in the arse in the past. You've given a hostage to fortune. Why are you surprised that some people might use it?
> 
> 
> 
> That's kind of how bulletin boards work, Mr. Jasper. They're not fora where you can drop in, say your piece and expect people to immediately conform to your expectations of good behaviour. 9 times out of 10 mudslinging happens, but {and this is crucial) it also clears the air and allows preconceptions to be corrected. It's give and take.


 
I find this post one of the most constructive and there is a lot here that is helpful and constructive . Thanks for taking the time to feedback and I and the board will reflect seriously on some of your comments .


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## equationgirl (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> No I can assure you we are certainly not engaging with the much discredited workfare programme.


Very glad to hear that 

So, if you are engaging with the JC+, what are you doing with them? Are they helping publicise opportunities?


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## jakejb79 (Jul 16, 2012)

If i was a local business, i'd honeyglaze Splash with money.      It seems a good idea to bring the community together.


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I have lived in Lambeth for 30 years Local businesses are reflected on our Board by Blackdread Music Store a founder member of Splash.


Other people were also involved in the founding of Splash but they have been completely airbrushed out of its history.

I do believe it's left a bit of a sour taste amongst some members of the community. Why, for example, is there no mention whatsoever of Pat, the old Albert landlord who came up with the idea in the first place?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2012)

jakejb79 said:


> If i was a local business, i'd honeyglaze Splash with money. It seems a good idea to bring the community together.


 
I see what you did there.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> FWIW my business has just taken on four apprentices; all young men from South London. We haven't been approached by Mr Jasper or Brixton Splash, but his organisation is just one of several trying to place neets. If he'd come to us before we might well have taken them on through him. But for the next few months, our mentoring and training capacity is fully taken up.
> The only thing I object to about this whole issue is the "name-and-shame" of those businesses who don't participate ("blackmail" is too strong, and loaded, a term for this. We have nothing to hide). I can understand the frustration, but as a business owner, I know that there are many reasons for refusing any of the plethora of requests for our resources. We work in and depend on the community; we just don't have the resources to respond positively to everything that comes our way, but we would love to be able to do so.
> 
> I love Brixton Splash as an event and I really hope it continues to prosper; I'd really like to feel good about sponsoring it in 2013. But I am afraid this episode leaves a rather nasty taste in the mouth.


 
Your already doing something positive for the community and Im sorry you feel that simply highlighting business like yours as examples of good practice, promoting your produce as a result and informing communities of those business that simply fail to engage in any way is somehow confrontational . Informed consumer choice and business accountability are all increasing facets of the current retail environment . With customer patronage at such a premium it makes sense to align with those businesses that share customers social and ethical concerns. As you are already engaged you provide a positive example of what we are looking for by way of wider response. This is now a public debate and will run and run Brixton Splash intends to host more debate in the run up to Xmas so there will be plenty of further opportunities to discuss these matters more fully.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

editor said:


> Other people were also involved in the founding of Splash but they have been completely airbrushed out of its history.
> 
> I do believe it's left a bit of a sour taste amongst some members of the community. Why, for example, is there no mention whatsoever of Pat, the old Albert landlord who came up with the idea in the first place?


 
Im sorry but I dont accept that You may want to discuss with Blackadread who was an original founder member.


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Im sorry but I dont accept that You may want to discuss with Blackadread who was an original founder member.


You don't accept that Pat from the Albert had anything to do with setting up Splash?

Where you around when it was being organised? I was. Pat even posted on these boards about it at the time, so why is he getting no credit?


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Very glad to hear that
> 
> So, if you are engaging with the JC+, what are you doing with them? Are they helping publicise opportunities?


 
Largely in discussion with us about creating a 'new offer' possible EU level opportunities for our volunteers and assessing entitlement and training support needs.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

editor said:


> You don't accept that Pat from the Albert had anything to do with setting up Splash?
> 
> Where you around when it was being organised? I was. Pat even posted on these boards about it at the time, so why is he getting no credit?


 
I initially funded BS but only became a board member in 2009 and assumed the chair in 2010. Blackadread was the original founder. I have seen the communication from Pat and responded. I also referred the matter to Blackadread but he has no recollection of any such discussions being held with him. Sorry I cant help you further.


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I initially funded BS but only became a board member in 2009 and assumed the chair in 2010. Blackadread was the original founder. I have seen the communication from Pat and responded. I also referred the matter to Blackadread but he has no recollection of any such discussions being held with him. Sorry I cant help you further.


So he's going to remain airbrushed out of the event's history, and in your mind he played absolutely no part whatsoever in any aspect of organising the first Splash event?

So why was he posting about going to a council meeting to discuss the date of the event? Any idea?


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

I will bring Blackadread to Pat at the Albert so they can discuss in an attempt to resolve . I saw no postings about the date. Im happy to accord credit where its due but this issue precedes my active involvement. As I have no idea who the owner and editor of this blog is maybe you can tell me something about both ?


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## colacubes (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I will bring Blackadread to Pat at the Albert so they can discuss in an attempt to resolve . I saw no postings about the date. Im happy to accord credit where its due but this issue precedes my active involvement. As I have no idea who the owner and editor of this blog is maybe you can tell me something about both ?


 
Pat moved on from The Albert a couple of years ago so probably a bit late for it tbh.  I know a few people here know him in real life and would probably be more than happy to pass details on if you could find out more from Blackadread.


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I will bring Blackadread to Pat at the Albert so they can discuss in an attempt to resolve . I saw no postings about the date. Im happy to accord credit where its due but this issue precedes my active involvement. As I have no idea who the owner and editor of this blog is maybe you can tell me something about both ?


Pat stopped being landlord at the Albert a long time ago.

I am the editor of this site, but seeing as it is funded by anonymous donations from contributors, I feel a little uncomfortable declaring myself the 'owner.' If I spring this mortal coil it will hopefully carry on being funded and used by those users.

You can find out the story behind the site here: http://www.urban75.org/info/about1.html


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## Lee Japser (Jul 16, 2012)

Lets do that. Read the history great reading but tell me who you are Mr Editor ?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

AI sub routine.


probably windows based (sorry)


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## ricbake (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Lets do that. Read the history great reading but tell me who you are Mr Editor ?


 
<editor: post edited to remove personal info>


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## peterkro (Jul 16, 2012)

Hi Lee,I've lived in Brixton for about forty years.I know the people,your personal reputation isn't too good.I'm prepared to listen to your newish idea's and I hope they are for the community.Having said that your management bollocks speak is nauseating .Don't try and speak for black people it's no more than the usual leadership bollocks.Come with a good idea and we'll follow it,until then don't be surprised if we can't tell the difference between you and Osbourne.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 16, 2012)

the management speak can get a little much.

we get it all the time working in training.  companies get the contracts and them subcontract the  training out to independept coledges  but   they  don't know a fucking thing about education and  it  ends up being a speil of this    management talk which has practically no relavance to reality.

i'm currently doing NEET training  which  contains  very similar  wording to  this stuff about  opportunities for  young people. the truth of the matter is  there just more kids  on  crap  training schemes.  the neet  stuff is  often much worse  than the old  jobcentre training.   we used to do C&G vocational courses  that  really  focuses on skills  but  now all the  contracts are tainted with the stink of   transferable skills  which mean  it's all about  writing reports.


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Lets do that. Read the history great reading but tell me who you are Mr Editor ?


I'm the editor of the site.
For various reasons - one of them being serious threats from racists in the past - I choose not to post under my real name, in much the same way as no one else on this site is compelled to do so.


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## ricbake (Jul 16, 2012)

apologies


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## paulhackett (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I understand the demands of small business and those that we work with seem to find the time to communicate with us even where they are unable to engage. Its a simple as a call or a email.


 
Sorry but not every business does have the time to take their focus away from their primary concerns, for example if their efforts are geared to particular times of year and these times 'clash' with your attempts to contact.

If I had to assess whether I had time to allocate to Splash, based solely on your website as the way you have marketed Splash, I would question why, for example, time hasn't been spent proofing it for content, consistency and typos.

It doesn't come across as well as it could do.


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## Gramsci (Jul 16, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I have lived in Lambeth for 30 years Local businesses are reflected on our Board by Blackdread Music Store a founder member of Splash. As for our remit thanks for your views but your mistaken. Part of our core objectives is the promotion the local economy of Brixton and provide employment opportunities to local young people.
> 
> You seem to be suggesting that business have no local accountability other than the conduct of their business. If consumers and businesses can have debates about issues such as the environment or animal welfare I can see no reason why a debate about helping people is any way different and should be accorded similar priority. This is our 8th year and our view is that the benefits of Brixton Splash are evident for all to see.
> .


 
Hello Lee welcome to Urban.

I have also lived in Brixton since 81 so have seen a lot of changes.

How will the Brixton Splash reflect the increased diversity of Brixton? When I first came here there was a larger Afro Caribbean community. Over the years I have seen Eritreans, South Americans and North Africans set up shops here. Also many shops are run by Asian people who have been in Brixton a long time.

Will the music line up for Brixton Splash reflect this diversity? I listened to music my local Eritrean business plays in his shop and its great. That part of the world have great singers.

Also whilst I know  this years Splash is celebrating Jamaica 50th year of independance not all of Brixtons Afro Carribean community are from ( or families originally from ) Jamaica. There are also long standing residents whose families come from , for example, Grenada and St Lucia.

I looked at the sponsorship on the BS website. It shows different levels of sponsorship but gives no indication of what they cost. Why is this?

I have chatted to a couple of local small businesses and your naming those who do not contribute has not gone down well. The ones I chatted to are not against BS. They think its fine to name those who have but naming and shaming those who dont they do not like.

Do you not think that this tactic is going to cause resentment towards BS in the long run?

Also the approach to possible sponsors is late in the day. One business I talked to said in another area of London where there is a one day festival meetings are held which local business groups can attend months before. The approach used is to consult and get support from local business and ask them what they would like to see the festival do on the day. Many of them do end up donating money or help in other ways. There is no naming and shaming.

I see Brixton as a community of communities. We sometimes get on sometimes disagree. That is how multiculturalism works in practise. I'm not perfect and I do not expect it from others. Multiculturalism works bottom up. It is the daily social interactions of ordinary people that make it work. Not politicians (sorry Lee). Most of the time it works by ordinary people just getting on with it.

I also see that central London is increasingly becoming no longer affordable. I take your point in your blog about rising rents for shops.. As Violent Panda has pointed out there is also the issue of housing being affordable. This is an issue that affects both white and black people. It is a class issue. Whilst we come from different backgrounds there are issues that can unite people.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses all of which are gratefully received  as for my comparison with George Osbourne that one made my day. We will be initiating this public debate later in the year and we hope those that have expressed a view will join us. In the meantime we hope to see in at Brixton Splash 2012.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> Hello Lee welcome to Urban.
> 
> I have also lived in Brixton since 81 so have seen a lot of changes.
> 
> ...


 
Last year Brixton Splash broadness its cultural offer and in future years will extend further. We make no apologies for celebrating Jamaican links with Lambeth in this the 50th anniversary year. We take the point about late notice although we did deliver the packs some 4 weeks ago now so a total of 2 months before the event. I do not agree that this debate is an anyway damaging to Brixton Splash. I suggest you come along to the festival and or attend our planned public debates later in the year and see for yourself there is real concern among some communities about the nature of developments in central Brixton.

Our sponsorship details are contained in the pack we delivered we are happy to put the actual cost online next year.

If I was elected to public office your "politician" point would be correct. As for the class trumps race card we could be here all day.

Business are named and shamed where they fail to pay tax or use products that are unethically sourced or where animal welfare is compromised that is an accepted part of the consumer business debate. Why not on the issue of community engagement?

We are happy to offer consultation with businesses and did attempt to do that through the Brixton Business Forum in April unfortunately they simply failed to take up our offer to engage. Next year through our planned debates engagement this consultation will start much earlier.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

paulhackett said:


> Sorry but not every business does have the time to take their focus away from their primary concerns, for example if their efforts are geared to particular times of year and these times 'clash' with your attempts to contact.
> 
> If I had to assess whether I had time to allocate to Splash, based solely on your website as the way you have marketed Splash, I would question why, for example, time hasn't been spent proofing it for content, consistency and typos.
> 
> It doesn't come across as well as it could do.


 

We focus on the core issues business engagement, the social issues of unemployment and poverty and how the economic development of Brixton can be inclusive. You choose to focus on a few typo's. We can amend typo's the core issues remain.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm the editor of the site.
> For various reasons - one of them being serious threats from racists in the past - I choose not to post under my real name, in much the same way as no one else on this site is compelled to do so.


 
Really? Sorry to hear that I know how that feels. Im sure we will meet in any event.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Hi Lee,I've lived in Brixton for about forty years.I know the people,your personal reputation isn't too good.I'm prepared to listen to your newish idea's and I hope they are for the community.Having said that your management bollocks speak is nauseating .Don't try and speak for black people it's no more than the usual leadership bollocks.Come with a good idea and we'll follow it,until then don't be surprised if we can't tell the difference between you and Osbourne.


 

Im not sure what to make of this contribution! Thanks for listening and sorry if the language has alienated you. We will be presenting new ideas through public debate and consultation later in the year I hope you will come and join us.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> the management speak can get a little much.
> 
> we get it all the time working in training. companies get the contracts and them subcontract the training out to independept coledges but they don't know a fucking thing about education and it ends up being a speil of this management talk which has practically no relavance to reality.
> 
> i'm currently doing NEET training which contains very similar wording to this stuff about opportunities for young people. the truth of the matter is there just more kids on crap training schemes. the neet stuff is often much worse than the old jobcentre training. we used to do C&G vocational courses that really focuses on skills but now all the contracts are tainted with the stink of transferable skills which mean it's all about writing reports.


 
We are not a government agency and intend to find new ways to provide real opportunities to young people. This will form part of our public consultation and debate later in the year. Do come along...


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## brucenbart (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Business are named and shamed where they fail to pay tax or use products that are unethically sourced or where animal welfare is compromised that is an accepted part of the consumer business debate. Why not on the issue of community engagement?


 
For one reason doing this only focuses on one event - Splash. How do you know that these businesses are not engaged  in the community in other ways? How do you define community engagement? (surely its not just getting involved with Splash). The larger reason is that its not the place of a fantastic community festival to engage in calling out local businesses who have chosen not to support them. Celebrate the ones who have, demonstrate its value , make friends and hope they might be supporters in the future.


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## OpalFruit (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Business are named and shamed where they fail to pay tax or use products that are unethically sourced or where animal welfare is compromised that is an accepted part of the consumer business debate. Why not on the issue of community engagement?
> 
> We are happy to offer consultation with businesses and did attempt to do that through the Brixton Business Forum in April unfortunately they simply failed to take up our offer to engage. Next year through our planned debates engagement this consultation will start much earlier.


 
It was an OFFER. Made on your terms and at your timescale. You need to do the consultation FIRST. Naming and shaming people who avoid statutory demands such as taxes is one thing, 'shaming' businesses - i.e attempting to give a local business a bad name, for failing to respond to your request for voluntary support is entirely another. I am local and have opportunities (which I use) to train and support local young people. It IS blackmail to say 'if you don't support our initiative we will give you negative publicity', and frankly as someone who listened positively to Ros Griffiths at various meetings in the past, this new stance by BS would put me off.

Also, please explain your former support of the Starlight Academy at Offley works? In receipt of ££££'s of public money they had no credible website or publicly advertised programme of work (until scandal suddenly resulted in a minimal pop-up site), and (black) youth particpants in a neighbouring (black-led) project were shocked to see so-called tutors sitting out on the stairs all day smoking weed, no particpants, and no sign of any meaningful activity as advertised at all. Sorry, maybe I have it wrong an in the end you did disassociate yourself from the project? I invoke race in that last para partly because criticism of the project was met with claims of race-based bias (I think by you, but maybe by others involved in the project), and also because I agree with you it is relevant. Racism remains. Black young men are the worst hit by the shrinkage of the training and employment chances under this government. Something needs doing - but because the need is so urgent and so important, I will put my organisation's efforts behind that which is cast iron. I WILL BS to succeed in this new manifestation, I really do. But I need a credible persuasion of integrity.


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## Rushy (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> We focus on the core issues business engagement, the social issues of unemployment and poverty and how the economic development of Brixton can be inclusive. You choose to focus on a few typo's. We can amend typo's the core issues remain.


 
It is one thing to have dreadful spelling and grammar on a discussion board. It is another thing to let it slip wholesale into promotional material - which is what PH clearly referred to - because it is the only material by with the recipient can judge you. You are trying to convince complete strangers to back your scheme (over numerous other schemes). You need to stand out from the crowd. To do that you need to come across as competent and in control. Bad spelling, grammar and clarity may not seem important to you but reflect badly on your scheme and suggest to the reader that it is disorganised, lacks attention to detail and is not run by people with appropriate skills and judgement.

If an accountant sent me a letter offering their services and proclaiming "Let us do you're business accounts for you" it would go straight in the bin because, although it is not a mathematical error, it suggests poor attention to detail and low standards. If something doesn't make immediate sense to me - it usually goes in the bin. If I submit a business plan, I go over every detail again and again to make sure it is correct, clear and concise because I know it is my one chance to make an impression. It is the way businesses work. They value competence and accuracy.

Your response is just more evidence that you want to communicate with businesses (business engagement) on your terms and your terms only. You think that because you have spoken everyone should stand up and listen because you are Lee Jasper. When they don't respond the way you want them to, rather than reflect on the reasons, you throw a hissy fit and threaten them. And then try to cover up your bullying by by calling it 'opening debate'.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

OpalFruit said:


> It was an OFFER. Made on your terms and at your timescale. You need to do the consultation FIRST. Naming and shaming people who avoid statutory demands such as taxes is one thing, 'shaming' businesses - i.e attempting to give a local business a bad name, for failing to respond to your request for voluntary support is entirely another. I am local and have opportunities (which I use) to train and support local young people. It IS blackmail to say 'if you don't support our initiative we will give you negative publicity', and frankly as someone who listened positively to Ros Griffiths at various meetings in the past, this new stance by BS would put me off.
> 
> Also, please explain your former support of the Starlight Academy at Offley works? In receipt of ££££'s of public money they had no credible website or publicly advertised programme of work (until scandal suddenly resulted in a minimal pop-up site), and (black) youth particpants in a neighbouring (black-led) project were shocked to see so-called tutors sitting out on the stairs all day smoking weed, no particpants, and no sign of any meaningful activity as advertised at all. Sorry, maybe I have it wrong an in the end you did disassociate yourself from the project? I invoke race in that last para partly because criticism of the project was met with claims of race-based bias (I think by you, but maybe by others involved in the project), and also because I agree with you it is relevant. Racism remains. Black young men are the worst hit by the shrinkage of the training and employment chances under this government. Something needs doing - but because the need is so urgent and so important, I will put my organisation's efforts behind that which is cast iron. I WILL BS to succeed in this new manifestation, I really do. But I need a credible persuasion of integrity.


 
No our offer was simply to attend at a time of their choosing, You seem intent on finding fault where there is none.

Im afraid you do 'have it all wrong' and further and falsely maligned  first class black organisations like Starlight Music Academy (SMA) that have and continue to do fantastic work in the community. That why Boris Johnson allowed them to remain some three years after the racist media campaign conducted by The Standard which you seem to regard as fact.

The accountability of local business to local communities is all part of the 'big society' agenda. Consumers are increasing making informed choices about where and with whom they spend that money. We intend to spark this debate about the relationship between local businesses and consumers and the issue of social responsibility . You should come along and take part in our intended consultation on these issues. 


In relation to other matters you raise. I have to say that even Boris did not believe the rubbish the media put out in relation to SMA other 12 other groups that were based at Offley Works.  Boris Johnson's may be many things but he is not stupid. Even he recognised the value of all the work done by these groups so viciously and maliciously attacked.

So much so, in fact that he agreed to give all the groups, *yes thats right all the groups*,  leave to remain rent free for three years.  If business choose to work with other organisations other than Brixton Splash that is their prerogative. We would both applaud any publicly recognise any business that was doing something to address the gross marginalisation of young people whether with ourselves or the very many other local organisations working on this area.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

Rushy said:


> It is one thing to have dreadful spelling and grammar on a discussion board. It is another thing to let it slip wholesale into promotional material - which is what PH clearly referred to - because it is the only material by with the recipient can judge you. You are trying to convince complete strangers to back your scheme (over numerous other schemes). You need to stand out from the crowd. To do that you need to come across as competent and in control. Bad spelling, grammar and clarity may not seem important to you but reflect badly on your scheme and suggest to the reader that it is disorganised, lacks attention to detail and is not run by people with appropriate skills and judgement.
> 
> If an accountant sent me a letter offering their services and proclaiming "Let us do you're business accounts for you" it would go straight in the bin because, although it is not a mathematical error, it suggests poor attention to detail and low standards. If something doesn't make immediate sense to me - it usually goes in the bin. If I submit a business plan, I go over every detail again and again to make sure it is correct, clear and concise because I know it is my one chance to make an impression. It is the way businesses work. They value competence and accuracy.
> 
> Your response is just more evidence that you want to communicate with businesses (business engagement) on your terms and your terms only. You think that because you have spoken everyone should stand up and listen because you are Lee Jasper. When they don't respond the way you want them to, rather than reflect on the reasons, you throw a hissy fit and threaten them. And then try to cover up your bullying by by calling it 'opening debate'.


 
Well it is clear you are not convinced and you are entitled to you view.  I take a different view to you on the issue of grammar which I consider to be a minor point and a silly diversion. There are many successful business owners in Brixton and throughout the country who neither read or write English. Our ' competence is demonstrated by 8 years of continual growth and a fantastic festival . 

We simply wanted a response from business and it is illuminating that prior to the blog article we had little or no response from businesses and now we at least have your attention, front and centre. Unlike you I do not consider increasing consumer awareness of the buying public about the level of social and community engagement by business " bullying ".

Shoppers are intelligent enough to make their own choices and do so everyday armed with information from all sorts of consumer awareness campaigns. In the UK its a growth industry .

A public debate will take place later in the year and will present a further opportunity to debate these issues.


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## Rushy (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I have lived in Lambeth for 30 years Local businesses are reflected on our Board by Blackdread Music Store a founder member of Splash. As for our remit thanks for your views but your mistaken. Part of our core objectives is the promotion the local economy of Brixton and provide employment opportunities to local young people.


 
Really? Your About the Event page reads:


> Brixton Splash is a free community street festival led by the local community. The event is aimed at celebrating the area’s diversity, its progress through the years and the fusion of the numerous ethnic groups that now call Brixton home. It is a celebration of peaceful relations, vibrant living in Brixton and Brixton’s contribution to the wider London culture.


 
It goes on about celebrating Jamaica, multiculturalism and artistry and blah blah blah. Nothing about economy and nor employment opportunities for youth. Even the support /sponsor page says nothing.

The only mention of employment is that you are seeking unpaid volunteers to carry out stewarding duties.



> You seem to be suggesting that business have no local accountability other than the conduct of their business. If consumers and businesses can have debates about issues such as the environment or animal welfare I can see no reason why a debate about helping people is any way different and should be accorded similar priority. This is our 8th year and our view is that the benefits of Brixton Splash are evident for all to see.


 
Really? So why can't you spell them out clearly? All your site mentions is "branding opportunities" in return for money. Suggestions for other types of support are left to the reader's imagination.



> As the only large scale event in Brixton’s town centre, Brixton Splash offers a range of unique branding opportunities for potential sponsors. There are a range of packages available that are documented in the sponsorship pack downloadable below.​Download sponsorship information pack​The opportunities listed in the sponsorship pack are neither comprehensive or limiting, so if you have an idea or proposal for sponsoring the event, or would like more information please get in touch by emailing us on: info@brixtonsplash.org​As with many others in the current climate Brixton Splash has been hit with lost funding and reduced sponsorship in 2011 compared to previous years, so the Board and events team are immensely proud that we have succeeded in bringing you Brixton’s only community-led street event again this year. We couldn’t do it without significant support from the following so our sincere THANKS goes to everyone involved.​


​ 


> I sorry you think my language is confrontational but I can assure that was not my intention


so withdraw it unconditionally in your blog



> however that will not detract from our determination to explore the issues of corporate social responsibly and the role of large, medium and small businesses in facilitating community development in Brixton. Within that debate there will be room to accommodate all perspectives into a strategy that seeks to promote business involvement. Ultimately the issue of consumer choice is primary and seeking to raise awareness of the issues of business enragement and social responsibility will be aired and debated.


 
but before any debate has even started you have already started randomly "naming and shaming" businesses of which you have shown you have little understanding - e.g. referring to San Marino as a new business which does not support you or Splash - they have been here 20yrs!



> I understand the demands of small business and those that we work with seem to find the time to communicate with us even where they are unable to engage. Its a simple as a call or a email.


 
I don't get the impression that you understand the last thing about business. Stop throwing hissy fits at the ones who choose not to follow you and show them what they are missing. If indeed they are missing out.



> Your are entitled to your opinion on my suitability as chairman of Brixton Splash that does not chime with the huge local support for the event and the way in which my involvement has been positively welcomed by the local community.


 
You seem to be confusing local support for a big party with local support for you. I didn't even realise that you were involved until you started criticising businesses.



> For your information and to further reinforce my point I am also vice chair of the Lambeth Police Consultative Group. So your surprise about my position indicates the extent to which you are uniformed about the local Brixton community. Thanks for you comments.


 
Not sure how you being on the Lambeth Police Consultative Group makes me uninformed but, jolly good. It seems that you value badges and titles over ability and experience. From the way you talk about local businesses I am extremely confident that I engage with my home 'town' and workplace more constructively than you do.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

Pedantic twadle





Rushy said:


> Really? Your About the Event page reads:
> ​
> It goes on about celebrating Jamaica, multiculturalism and artistry and blah blah blah. Nothing about economy and nor employment opportunities for youth. Even the support /sponsor page says nothing.
> 
> ...


 


All information you ask is available and I have answered most of the points you make in responses to other posts.  We have four small business owners on our board we understand small business. We are initiating a broad debate about community engagement and suggest you come to the some of the public meetings so you can better asses the level of public support for a real debate about these issues, Brixton Splash in general and me in particular. Send me your email I will be sure and invite you.


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## Rushy (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> We simply wanted a response from business and it is illuminating that prior to the blog article we had little or no response from businesses and now we at least have your attention, front and centre. Unlike you I do not consider increasing consumer awareness of the buying public about the level of social and community engagement by business " bullying ".


 
And the response was almost across the board disinterest in what you had to offer them. Sadly, rather than learn from this, you appear to have taken it as an affront to your ego and want to show them who "the big boss man" is.

You have my attention because of your clearly worded threats to others in my community. It is not positive attention. Your bullying approach has not had one jot of support here.

I suggest that you go away, take a long hard look at yourself, and start again.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 17, 2012)

Rushy said:


> I suggest that you go away, take a long hard look at yourself, and start again.


 
and spell your name correctly and use a spellchecker


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## gabi (Jul 17, 2012)

Christ. I can't believe Brick Box get the level of shit when this kinda stuff is given a much easier ride.

As for who came up with this idea of Brixton Splash, it was undoubtedly Pat afaik, i was a regular in the albert back in those days. In fact i think the name itself came directly from a thread on urban iirc?


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## Rushy (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Pedantic twadle
> 
> All information you ask is available and I have answered most of the points you make in responses to other posts. We have four small business owners on our board we understand small business. We are initiating a broad debate about community engagement and suggest you come to the some of the public meetings so you can better asses the level of public support for a real debate about these issues, Brixton Splash in general and me in particular. Send me your email I will be sure and invite you.


 
Where is this info and mission statement available and why should I or any business have to go looking for it if Splash can't be bothered to outline it clearly on your website?

You can invite me through this site. But really don't bother if you are going to start your witch hunt before the debate even begins.


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## fortyplus (Jul 17, 2012)

Mr Jasper,
I wish you and Brixton Splash every success.
Here's what I suggest you do to avoid alienating small businesses like mine. (Note: I am an informed bystander; you don't know me or the name of my Brixton Village business, which I choose not to publicise on these boards because I think they're better for being kept clear of such commercialisation, and I have neither been approached by, nor agreed to sponsor Brixton Splash, but I do know the people behind many of the struggling small businesses you have already "named and shamed" in your Twitter feed).
Blog and tweet something like this:
"We have named several small local businesses who have chosen not to support Brixton Splash this year.  This was not meant as a criticism, and we understand that small businesses have many competing demands on their resources. The businesses we have named are  all great businesses and at the heart of the community. Of course, we'd still like them to show their support  by sponsoring Brixton Splash and by mentoring young people through our programmes, but it's far from being the only way they can do so. Just by trading in the community, small businesses stimulate growth and opportunities, and we urge everyone to support local traders as much as possible - especially, but not only, those  who sponsor the Splash."


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

Rushy said:


> And the response was almost across the board disinterest in what you had to offer them. Sadly, rather than learn from this, you appear to have taken it as an affront to your ego and want to show them who "the big boss man" is.
> 
> You have my attention because of your clearly worded threats to others in my community. It is not positive attention. Your bullying approach has not had one jot of support here.
> 
> I suggest that you go away, take a long hard look at yourself, and start again.


 
Unfortunately discussion on U75 does necessarily reflect the views of Brixton. In relation to support I hate to disappoint you but you are wrong again and more business have indeed come on board. The debates will go ahead whether you choose to be part of them or not.  Thanks for the suggestions and you have a nice day.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Mr Jasper,
> I wish you and Brixton Splash every success.
> Here's what I suggest you do to avoid alienating small businesses like mine. (Note: I am an informed bystander; you don't know me or the name of my Brixton Village business, which I choose not to publicise on these boards because I think they're better for being kept clear of such commercialisation, and I have neither been approached by, nor agreed to sponsor Brixton Splash, but I do know the people behind many of the struggling small businesses you have already "named and shamed" in your Twitter feed).
> Blog and tweet something like this:
> "We have named several small local businesses who have chosen not to support Brixton Splash this year. This was not meant as a criticism, and we understand that small businesses have many competing demands on their resources. The businesses we have named are all great businesses and at the heart of the community. Of course, we'd still like them to show their support by sponsoring Brixton Splash and by mentoring young people through our programmes, but it's far from being the only way they can do so. Just by trading in the community, small businesses stimulate growth and opportunities, and we urge everyone to support local traders as much as possible - especially, but not only, those who sponsor the Splash."


 
Thanks for this we will give this some thought many thanks for taking the time to write this.


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> We are pushing for a debate on the issues . Play the ball not the man.


 

this is the point in the thread where i believe this is a good, but not olympic-grade troll.

nice work so far, Mr Japsar.

*now reads on*


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## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

Just to reiterate: it is the real Lee Jasper posting here, even if he did manage to spell his own name wrong. 

Mr Jasper - would you like me to edit your user name?


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## Rushy (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Unfortunately discussion on U75 does necessarily reflect the views of Brixton. In relation to support I hate to disappoint you but you are wrong again and more business have indeed come on board. The debates will go ahead whether you choose to be part of them or not. Thanks for the suggestions and you have a nice day.


 
I have no problem with businesses coming on board with Splash.
My problem is that you are threatening those who choose not to (including those who were not even properly approached). 
It is a shame that you don't understand the difference.

Anyway - I see that you liked Fortyplus' well written suggested summary of your position and, consequently, look forward to seeing the clarification on your rantblog. 

I hope that you have a super day too, old chap.


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Just to reiterate: it is the real Lee Jasper posting here, even if he did manage to spell his own name wrong.
> 
> Mr Jasper - would you like me to edit your user name?


 
Then the man is not only a bully, a self-appointed spokesman for the area who seems to know nothing about it, but he's also an idiot.

Why oh why does Brixton constantly attract people who want it to be something other than what it is, hipsters, politicians, trendy food-bloggers, middle-class blowhards and this horse-shit.

Piss off back to Clapham Japser, and let the community actually deal with its own issues without interference.


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## Gramsci (Jul 17, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> this is the point in the thread where i believe this is a good, but not olympic-grade troll.
> 
> nice work so far, Mr Japsar.
> 
> *now reads on*


 
I still have a slight feeling this is trolling.If it is its Grade A trolling. "Japser is remarkably good at replying on these boards for someone new. Hope it is not.


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## marty21 (Jul 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Just to reiterate: it is the real Lee Jasper posting here, even if he did manage to spell his own name wrong.
> 
> Mr Jasper - would you like me to edit your user name?


 http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/stop-and-search-no-comment.208270/

There was a Lee Jasper registered before, I think it's the same person


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## Maggot (Jul 17, 2012)

I can't be arsed to read the whole thread, but I'd just like to say:


BRIXTON IS NOT A VILLAGE!


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## gabi (Jul 17, 2012)

Technically, yes it is


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 17, 2012)

no it isn't.  perhaps it was in the past  but  it isn't now.  it's not even an urban village.


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## gabi (Jul 17, 2012)

London is a collection of villages, brixton being one of them


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## urbanspaceman (Jul 17, 2012)

We've been getting this all wrong.

During the past few days U75 posters, with varying degrees of civility, have been making comments that point out to LJ where he has been going wrong, and (mostly) suggesting constructive ways of making things better.

In other words, we have assumed that this is an essentially _political_ issue, and that LJ, like any competent politician or community activist, listens - or at least pays lip service - to the views of his constituents. Not necessarily because politicians are angels, but because in the give-and-take of retail politics they need to build a broad a base of support, in order to get anything done at all.

LJ said an interesting thing: that he isn't a politician. And he's telling the truth. He is not interested in achieving concensus, unconcerned about alienating people (how many of the named-and-shamed will _ever_ take part in Brixton Splash ?) and unembarrased about showcasing rampant narcisissm (re: the temerity of people in not responding to him)

LJ is actually a businessman. He is an seasoned professional in the Controversy Industry; his brand is himself. And he needs to make a living. Losing a £120k job working for Ken would leave a hole in anybody's pocket and one that needs to be filled, pronto. So BS is a new product line for LJ. All the "naming-and-shaming" and similar demagoguery is a _required feature_ of his business strategy, _not a flaw. _

Is LJ a troll ? Why, yes. That's his business model.


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 17, 2012)

right, we can accept that Mr J doesn't mean that Brixton is a rural village, but could it be an urban village.  that might go some way to restore his credibility on this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_village

oh dear.


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## ricbake (Jul 17, 2012)

It feels like it's a town and essentially it has a town centre but it's part of a conurbation. In the eleventh century it was Brixestan not quite a village and didn't change much until the beginning of the nineteenth century with the Industrial revolution and the railway. The current village bit seems to come from Space Makers 
*Last day for Brixton Village applications!​*
November 17, 2009 – 10:36 am​​


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 17, 2012)

gabi said:


> London is a collection of villages, brixton being one of them


 
you are a collection of meat.

not exactly  the right word is it.


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## twistedAM (Jul 17, 2012)

gabi said:


> London is a collection of villages, brixton being one of them


 
That's almost Dickensian.
Times change.


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 17, 2012)

Brixton Village is also not a village, it's an investment opportunity.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 17, 2012)

So this cockwit has come here to use the site for their own publicity then calls the site users racist for pointing out his tactics of name and shame are tantamount to being held up...

jog on Jasper, you broke the posting FAQ with you first post you publicity seeking whore...


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## mr steev (Jul 17, 2012)

gabi said:


> London is a collection of villages, brixton being one of them


 
The fact that it is a collection of villages means it's no longer a village. Virtually every large town and city was a collection of villages and hamlets.

There's an area of Wolverhampton many old people still call 'the village' as it was when they were younger, but it certainly isn't anymore even though it still has it's center. It has grown and lost that status


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## CH1 (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee - it's great to hear you "coming out" as yourself. I think I am the only other poster who is readily identifiable - but I can get away with it because i have "a diagnosis" as they so charmingly put it here on Urban 75. I have been slagged off for saying batty man - and then apologised to when I said I was gay.
Some people just can't take the truth.
As I tweeted to our mutual friend the Councillor for Downham the other day when he got all riled up "Politeness is the most acceptable face of hypocrisy" - urging him not to use the f word and c word.
Always be polite - I learned that at my Methodist boarding school where the bullies forced me to be gay - literally!


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## CH1 (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Thanks for all the responses all of which are gratefully received as for my comparison with George Osbourne that one made my day. We will be initiating this public debate later in the year and we hope those that have expressed a view will join us. In the meantime we hope to see in at Brixton Splash 2012.


Osborne is non-u - shome mishtake here shurely!


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## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

Here's the absolute proof that Pat was involved with Splash from the very start. I trust the 'history' page on the Brixton Splash website will be amended to reflect and fully credit his efforts - and perhaps questions asked why he was airbrushed out of history. Looks like a full apology would be in order too.

The idea was first mooted on this thread: Coldharbour Lane Party.. .. looking for volunteers

May 8th 2006:


passpat2 said:


> Lambeth Council have graciously allowed us to close Coldharbour Lane from K.F.C down to the Dogstar on bank holiday monday (29th) for a street party.. the idea behind it is to show to the media, potential new buisness etc that Brixton is not all about drug dealers, people getting mugged, and the past riots... ( and its also a good excuse for a party) we have a chance to show ' the other side of Brixton'.. they have also promised taht if all goes well we can repeat this next year ( a maybe expand it slightly).. we are looking for any who is willing to give a bit of time for free.. plus any street performers etc... the premice is that its a family day.. so any kids performers etc would be nice.. and anyone who would like to have a little stall selling crafts etc are more than welcome to apply too... i know this is very short notice and we have literally 3 weeks to organise it... ( of those im away for 2 on holibobs) sooo all assistance would be appreciated... we even need to name the event.. design flyers etc... any help.. like i say if it goes well we have the potential to make it annual... so come guys... pleeaaasssseeee...


 
May 11th 2006:


passpat2 said:


> *brixton splash*
> 
> Its now being called The Brixton Splash.. flyers will be posted throughout the area.. explaining things... stewards will br required for the day.. the response has been magnificent.. i would like to thank one and all.. if anyone would like to help.. have an arts stall etc.. please mail me.


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## OpalFruit (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm in support of nearly everything Lee Jasper wants. Good business / community relations, opportunities for young people, a great festival, and a celebration of the 50th anniversary (not the SMA, but that's my opinion of the quality of work : level of funding). I just don't like this way of going about it. BS: if you take fortyplus as your Chair you might get a better response! Now ther's an idea - what about inviting a prominent business member as chair, to talk to the wider business community? There are some inspiring black business leaders in Brixton.


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## paulhackett (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> We focus on the core issues business engagement, the social issues of unemployment and poverty and how the economic development of Brixton can be inclusive. You choose to focus on a few typo's. We can amend typo's the core issues remain.


 
Sorry but if a business is in Brixton it is by virtue of the fact it is there, already committed to the area, more so if it has a single location. It is wrong to suggest otherwise and despite your stated insight into small business, you don't appear to make allowances for a lack of response, irrespective of a reason put to you.

The reason I pointed out inconsistencies in your website is that it doesn't come across in a way that sells what you are trying to achieve as well as it might. It's not my focus. It's not my concern. It's a comment.

The reason I mentioned it, is you appear to assume any/every business should find time to respond, yet you don't appear to be able to find time to check what I would see as being a very basic part of what you are marketing? It smacks slightly of setting a dual standard if you don't conform to business standards you have said you expect of others.

If you want me to find time, I would expect you to find time. If I am a small business with limited resources and you are selling my 'name', I would expect you to make the adjustment. To name and shame me if I do not (because the message is garbled) isn't constructive.


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## Pat Clark (Jul 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's the absolute proof that Pat was involved with Splash from the very start. I trust the 'history' page on the Brixton Splash website will be amended to reflect and fully credit his efforts - and perhaps questions asked why he was airbrushed out of history. Looks like a full apology would be in order too.
> 
> The idea was first mooted on this thread: Coldharbour Lane Party.. .. looking for volunteers
> 
> ...


 
A recent reply from "A member of the Brixton Splash Board"

Not being a founder member of the Board I am afraid my knowledge of the origins of the event in terms of who developed what concepts are limited. I was well aware of the reason the event was initiated and share strongly those values and desires. I have copied our Chair here Lee Jasper & Blacker Dread who is a founding member of the Board and would be best placed to comment further on the origins of the event. 
> 
> I am more than happy to correct the statement on our website as certainly that is one area I control at present however, as I am sure you will understand I cannot do that without receiving confirmation from Blacker that your comments are indeed accurate and how the content should be amended to better reflect the origins of the event.

..... It was indeed the local constabulary who advised the inclusion of Blacker would be beneficial to our cause. I ask the question; "Who came up with the name, Brixton Splash?" We all know who designed the original logo...


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## Pat Clark (Jul 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's the absolute proof that Pat was involved with Splash from the very start. I trust the 'history' page on the Brixton Splash website will be amended to reflect and fully credit his efforts - and perhaps questions asked why he was airbrushed out of history. Looks like a full apology would be in order too.
> 
> The idea was first mooted on this thread: Coldharbour Lane Party.. .. looking for volunteers
> 
> ...


seriousl;y glid I leart how t use spill chock!


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## Lee Japser (Jul 17, 2012)

I stand corrected and will inform the board and amend our misspelt web page to reflect this fact. If someone can provide me with a little more information that would be great.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I stand corrected and will inform the board and amend our misspelt web page to reflect this fact. If someone can provide me with a little more information that would be great.


shouldn't you already have this seeing as you're pushing this promotion?

shoody half cocked work there son...


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## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I stand corrected and will inform the board and amend our misspelt web page to reflect this fact. If someone can provide me with a little more information that would be great.


I assume that Brixton Splash are now going to apologise fully for treating Pat so shabbily and finally credit him in full on the web page?

Seeing as it was _completely obvious_ to all concerned that Pat was involved in Brixton Splash from the start, I'd like to know why he has received no credit in all this time and who was responsible for airbushing him out of the event's history.

I would suggest that this incident could reflect very badly on the honestly and credibility of Brixton Splash as a whole, so I hope you will deal with this swiftly as matter of fairness and transparency.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2012)

Front page of website apology with a picture of Pat?


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## Pat Clark (Jul 17, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Front page of website apology with a picture of Pat?


Ooooo B' Jesus... Anyone got a free day to spend on Photoshop!!!!


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## ricbake (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm in the pub and have been a while but having just scanned throiugh recent posts to this thread I think that it appears to be a very constructive discussion and now that Lee is aware of the information here it will be great if he can act upon it. The Brixton Splash has regular committee meetings and due process needs to be followed. 
The encyclopedic knowledge of the history of Brixton SplasH's origins will hopefully be reflected in its publicity material as soon as possible.

But it may take some time as their web team our out of town (or Village) and there are people on holiday tis week.


----------



## fortyplus (Jul 17, 2012)

OpalFruit said:


> BS: if you take fortyplus as your Chair you might get a better response! Now ther's an idea - what about inviting a prominent business member as chair, to talk to the wider business community? There are some inspiring black business leaders in Brixton.


Now hang on a minute - I've got a business to run! I don't have the time for all that.


Besides, I'm not black.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 17, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Now hang on a minute - I've got a business to run! I don't have the time for all that.
> 
> 
> Besides, I'm not black.


 
That's alright, I don't think all this lot are either

http://www.brixtonsplash.org/?page_id=541


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## Twills (Jul 17, 2012)

Mr Jasper,

It seems a debate has started ahead of the publication of your official "name and shame" list. I love the Brixton Splash - cant wait. What plans do you have in place to make 2013 even bigger and better?


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## RaverDrew (Jul 18, 2012)

This thread is rapidly making me lose what little respect I have left for Lee Jasper.

Squirming around mis-truths is never a good look fella...


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## Twills (Jul 18, 2012)

Surprised you had any in the first place. An idiot savant. Without out the ability to count cards or spell


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 18, 2012)

*popcorn*


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## editor (Jul 18, 2012)

Twills said:


> Surprised you had any in the first place. An idiot savant. Without out the ability to count cards or spell


I do hope you're contribute something a little more substantial than an endless run of insults.


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## Twills (Jul 18, 2012)

No. That's all I've got. LJ = Salem witch trials = MacArthur = who the fuck does this self appointed prick think he is? Brixton will do fine without him.


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 18, 2012)

MacArthur? As in the pipe-smoking general? Or maybe the lachrymose sailor? Or do you mean Senator Joe McCarthy?


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## Twills (Jul 18, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> MacArthur? As in the pipe-smoking general? Or maybe the lachrymose sailor? Or do you mean Senator Joe McCarthy?


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## Twills (Jul 18, 2012)

Joe. Mcc. Fuck my fat fingers


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## OpalFruit (Jul 18, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Now hang on a minute - I've got a business to run! I don't have the time for all that.
> 
> 
> Besides, I'm not black.


 
Sorry - I ran 2 concepts together...I liked your way of talking about business engagement, have no clue as to your racial identity....and seperately, thinking of Mr Japser's emphases, suggested that Brixton, amongst a widely diverse business sector, has many inspirational black figures.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

OpalFruit said:


> thinking of Mr Japser's emphases, suggested that Brixton, amongst a widely diverse business sector, has many inspirational black figures.


 
it does he isn't one of them....


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## Rushy (Jul 18, 2012)

I'm a bit surprised to see that Brixton Blog have simply reproduced his blog as an article without any any analysis or comment (other than reader comments).

I have suggested that local business commit to funds to next year's Splash on the strict condition that Mr Jasper has nothing to do with it.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 18, 2012)

Rushy said:


> I'm a bit surprised to see that Brixton Blog have simply reproduced his blog as an article without any any analysis or comment (other than reader comments).


I don't think they really do analysis, or comment, or opinion. Which is a real shame, because they have a big reach locally via social media etc and lots of people read the blog...

Which is why U75 is the original and best.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 18, 2012)

Doesn't seem to have much support on there either


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 18, 2012)

LJ seems to have a document that he copies and pastes from too, judging by his comments on Brixton Blog, which are almost  identical to the ones on here.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

has this coward come back yet to address any of this after he's been rumbled attempting to lig the site and grab more publicity for himself... I mean clearly his charadee works... or now that he's been given the oxygen of publicity and once again shown up to the charlatan he is he fucked off never to reappear...

what a coward...

I'll bet he can't tell us what he thinks of anarchism either... (back to the old skool lulz...)


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 18, 2012)

It's not a charity though, which is why trying to get copies of their accounts (as he mentioned above) is a little more difficult - they're not easily findable on their website if they're on there at all.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> It's not a charity though, which is why trying to get copies of their accounts (as he mentioned above) is a little more difficult - they're not easily findable on their website if they're on there at all.


hence the obtuse spelling to confer belittling on them...


----------



## urbanspaceman (Jul 18, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> It's not a charity though, which is why trying to get copies of their accounts (as he mentioned above) is a little more difficult - they're not easily findable on their website if they're on there at all.


 
I couldn't find the accounts on the website either. BS is a non-profit company, whose activities have so far been so minimal that little info is required by Companies House. The most recent accounts, for year ended 30 November 2010, show:

Current Assets £8480
Accruals and Defered Income £-7570
Total Net Assets £910

It's interesting to note that a non-profit company such as BS has more freedom in how it conducts its business than a conventional charity. For a start, there is no Charity Commission oversight and meddling.

Also, a charity has a board of Trustees, who must be unpaid, and who provide governance over the activities and employees of the charity.

But a non-profit company is more streamlined. There are no Trustees and so liberated of this burden of Trustee scrutiny, the Directors have more discretion to determine the activities and expenditures of the company.

And in contrast to a conventional company, like many non-profits, BS is a "company limited by guarantee", which means it does not issue shares, and thus has no shareholders. So again the directors of BS are relieved of the burden of having to answer to interfering external shareholders.

PS: if you want to find out more about the six Directors/Board Members, note that the BS website has spelled one of their names wrong. It's Revd John _Sakutombo_, not​ Sakotumo


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 18, 2012)

urbanspaceman said:


> PS: if you want to find out more about the six Directors/Board Members, note that the BS website has spelled one of their names wrong. It's
> Revd John _Sakutombo_, not​Sakotumo


 
That bit was probably written by Ja*ps*er


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

looking more and more like some tax dodge... LJ might rue the day he came spamming on to urban uninvited...


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## CH1 (Jul 18, 2012)

Can someone explain what is going on please? I feel as though I have stumbled into one of those old USENET groups - the ones where any mention of black rights produced immediate flaming down with KKK propaganda.
I thought Brixton was in Britain where people had polite reasoned discussion - not a place where you were liable to find a burning cross on your lawn because you moved too far into the "white" zone!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

CH1 said:


> Can someone explain what is going on please? I feel as though I have stumbled into one of those old USENET groups - the ones where any mention of black rights produced immediate flaming down with KKK propaganda.
> I thought Brixton was in Britain where people had polite reasoned discussion - not a place where you were liable to find a burning cross on your lawn because you moved too far into the "white" zone!


that's you're own issues on display there son....

go back and read but to quick capsule for you: 

LJ comes in spams a community forum with a bullshit campaign where he claims local businesses need to cough up or face his wrath....

he get called on this thuggish and frankly underhand behaviour he then makes all sorts of unsubstantiated claims about his group claims someone who was instrumental in setting it up has no clue about the org then is called on this bollocks then is told to learn to spell and cowers off not replying to anyone else once he's shown up for the sham he is, further digging reveals his so called local community group has little to no financial oversight and has less reporting responsibility than the businesses he derides or a standard charity .... still not a peep... 

man's clearly a coward who can't apologise for his hubris.... 

clearly shouldn't have spammed the community with things and should have approached in the right way which is detailed within the FAQ he signed up for when he joined... when asking for support in ones endeavour particularly those so shrouded in secrecy, limited published accounts etc... as this one should be a little humble... eh... 

because none of us are a cruel as all of us.  etc


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2012)

How is he a coward if he's invited everyone to a public event where they can openly meet/ debate him?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How is he a coward if he's invited everyone to a public event where they can openly meet/ debate him?


he made claims which clearly now are shown to be false... and he can't apologise to the person he made them against... he's a public figure who's chosen to claim to name and shame those who refuse to do business with him but cannot apply the same candour to himself or his comments...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> he made claims which clearly now are shown to be false... and he can't apologise to the person he made them against... he's a public figure who's chosen to claim to name and shame those who refuse to do business with him but cannot apply the same candour to himself or his comments...


 
What claims? The one about who came up with the idea for BS? Didn't he acknowledge that?? Seriously can't see how he's a coward if he's willing to meet people in public. Are you going to the event Garf to call him a coward to his face?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What claims? The one about who came up with the idea for BS? Didn't he acknowledge that?? Seriously can't see how he's a coward if he's willing to meet people in public. Are you going to the event Garf to call him a coward to his face?


wanna film it...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> wanna film it...


 
Hell yeah!


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 18, 2012)

Garf has a point over the 'naming & shaming' situation, which IMO is borderline blackmail.

The rest of Garf's contributions are, IMO, borderline bonkers, but that's Garf for you.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Garf has a point over the 'naming & shaming' situation, which IMO is borderline blackmail.
> 
> The rest of Garf's contributions are, IMO, borderline bonkers, but that's Garf for you.


they see me trollin'
they be hatin...


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 18, 2012)

As a matter of information. I have talked to 3 local businesses so far. Out of the 3 only 1 has received a BS info pack. That business was not told that if they did not cough up money for Splash they would be named and shamed.

Seems to me that the BS approach is a bit disorganised. If you publicly say you are going to name businesses that do not contribute to Splash in some way or another you really need to make sure that all the local businesses in Brixton know the score. Whether big or small.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Garf has a point over the 'naming & shaming' situation, which IMO is borderline blackmail.
> 
> The rest of Garf's contributions are, IMO, borderline bonkers, but that's Garf for you.


 
Garf is a funny one.


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## Gramsci (Jul 18, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I don't think they really do analysis, or comment, or opinion. Which is a real shame, because they have a big reach locally via social media etc and lots of people read the blog...
> 
> Which is why U75 is the original and best.


 
I have told Brixton Blog about this thread this morning. And the issue of Pat.


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## claphamboy (Jul 18, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> As a matter of information. I have talked to 3 local businesses so far. Out of the 3 only 1 has received a BS info pack. That business was not told that if they did not cough up money for Splash they would be named and shamed.
> 
> Seems to me that the BS approach is a bit disorganised. If you publicly say you are going to name businesses that do not contribute to Splash in some way or another you really need to make sure that all the local businesses in Brixton know the score. Whether big or small.


 
Now, that I am sure would cross the line and actually be blackmail.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

Isn't the point of sponsorship tha you name a business whose helped out. With thanks from our sponsors local stores inc etc. this seems arse backwards with no thanks but free publicity for the following non sponsors...

Surely recording and naming and shaming only server the adage theres no such thing as bad publicity.  How much capital could a poor old local business drum up with their we was victimised but he meejah seleb entrant terrible etc gotta be a standard article maybe a mail or bbc London bit on the 6 o'clock too...  Really well thought out.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Now, that I am sure would cross the line and actually be blackmail.


Can't use that term apparently LJ thinks this is resorting to racist stereotypes.


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## CH1 (Jul 18, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> that's you're own issues on display there son....
> 
> go back and read but to quick capsule for you:
> 
> ...


I agree that hubris is a terrible sin - look what happened to Dr Owen - then he goes and writes a book called "The Hubris Syndrome"! I can't be bothered to read it to find out if it is a confession of guilt in the matter.
Regarding Lee Jasper in action - I was impressed by the way he handled the large protest meeting following the death of Smiley Culture. He was able to allow all the frustrations and fears of people to be expressed without things spinning out of control - and then wind the meting down afterwards in an orderly way.
He is more of a Rev Jesse Jackson type of politician in my view.
I very much doubt if Comrade Jasper's Cadres are any threat to anyone on Urban 75 - in any way.
I would rather have Lee Jasper in control of such a meeting than Donatus Anyanwu for example. That is assuming that Donatus would have thought there was any reason to have a meeting.
IMHO it is people like Donatus who are truly hubristic, out of touch and feathering nests to boot!
Do you want a re-run of my road movie? Here it is anyway - Thank You Governor Sullivan Chime for our beautiful new roads (Chime always flies of course!)


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## editor (Jul 18, 2012)

I hope we can keep this thread on topic because there's been some very important points raised that need to be discussed fully and openly.

I'm also keen to find out why Pat had been airbrushed out of Splash's history when he was so clearly a major part of the event.

LJ: now you have been made fully aware of his contributions, I think the least Splash can do is apologise to him, give him the full credit he deserves and put in a photo next to Blacker Dread on the Splash history page.

Does that sound reasonable to you?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Isn't the point of sponsorship tha you name a business whose helped out. With thanks from our sponsors local stores inc etc. this seems arse backwards with no thanks but free publicity for the following non sponsors...
> 
> Surely recording and naming and shaming only server the adage theres no such thing as bad publicity. How much capital could a poor old local business drum up with their we was victimised but he meejah seleb entrant terrible etc gotta be a standard article maybe a mail or bbc London bit on the 6 o'clock too... Really well thought out.


 
I look forward to filming you make that point to LJ later this year in person.


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## CH1 (Jul 18, 2012)

I have two suggestions for next year's splash. Where do I put them? - not wanting to go even more off topic!


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2012)

CH1 said:


> I have two suggestions for next year's splash. Where do I put them? - not wanting to go even more off topic!


 
Why not post them up here? I'm sure LJ would be interested in hearing them.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2012)

Maybe start a new thread entitled 'Brixton Splash 2013 - suggestions' rather than burden this already topic-laden thread!


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 18, 2012)

CH1 said:


> I have two suggestions for next year's splash. Where do I put them? - not wanting to go even more off topic!


You could go to the debate Jasper is planning on holding in the autumn...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> You could go to the debate Jasper is planning on holding in the autumn...


 
Good idea, think people who have concerns on here should really attend that event.


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## CH1 (Jul 18, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> You could go to the debate Jasper is planning on holding in the autumn...


This was artistic suggestions - not politics.
I may start a thread. Proms are coming on in a bit Water Music Fireworks Music - back to my Saxon roots!


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## snowy_again (Jul 19, 2012)

urbanspaceman said:


> I couldn't find the accounts on the website either. BS is a non-profit company, whose activities have so far been so minimal that little info is required by Companies House. The most recent accounts, for year ended 30 November 2010, show:
> 
> Current Assets £8480
> Accruals and Defered Income £-7570
> ...


 
Hmm, I know I'm nitpicking, but it's not quite that bad... a not for profit company that has a Company Limited by Guarantee registration document is still regulated by Companies House. Instead of Trustees, they have Directors but they have the same responsibilities and roles; it's just that you don't have the occasional heavy handedness of the Charity Commission - so if you're a relatively small organisation which doesn't aspire to grow too much, a Co. Ltd by Guarantee is sometimes a more suitable structure than full charitable registration. 

Either way, the approach that LJ is taking with the 'naming and shaming' is a fundamental error in how you deliver a corporate fundraising strategy.

You could easily go to the Directory of Social Change or NCVO and download a basic Corporate Fundraising techniques pack which will you how to  attract, engage and support corporate donors into a long term relationship, not something that happens <2months before an event through coercion. 

Lastly the approach probably contravenes the Institute of Fundraising Codes of Fundraising practice guidance; which makes me wonder whether the rest of the BS directors are involved in this approach, or whether it's just Lee Jasper.


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Either way, the approach that LJ is taking with the 'naming and shaming' is a fundamental error in how you deliver a corporate fundraising strategy.


Absolutely. I've spoken to a few traders and they're deeply unimpressed with this aggressive, bullying strategy. 

LJ: I note that the website still hasn't been updated and remains guilty of presenting an inaccurate version of the event's history. I think it would be a nice gesture to put in a picture of Pat as well seeing as he was so instrumental in creating Brixton Splash. I've probably got a photo you can use - would you like me to forward it to you?


----------



## Jo Birch-Phaure (Jul 19, 2012)

Dear Forumites, 

As a director of Brixton Splash and a volunteer in a variety of communities and programmes for over 10 years I can assure you myself and the rest of the Board are running Brixton Splash on a voluntary basis and purely for the benefit of a community we love deeply for a wide variety of reasons.  No doubt you will see from my picture I am not a Jamaican nor from any Carribbean background but I am a committed, honest and dedicated member of our little team and I can assure you we work together with the rest of the Board to fulfill all of our legal and financial requirements and provide a positive and enjoyable event. 

Lee's mentioning of businesses that have not supported the event is a controversial step and on a personal level from a PR background probably not one I would have taken but Lee is controversial and opinionated for sure and quite frankly that is why I personally enjoy so much working with him and the rest of the board, Jo Watson, Blacker Dread & Asher Senator all of whom have their own views and values and all of whom respect mine!  I would encourage you all to get more engaged with the event which brings so much benefit to local businesses for a day in August when the shops sell out and we make sure there is a safe and happy environment for everyone to enjoy the community spirit the rest of us get every single day.  There was no singular request we just wanted people to show willing and support it in whatever ways they could.  Thanks so much to those who have and we hope more of you will be in touch.  Contact me directly via info@brixtonsplash.org if you would like!

Jo Birch-Phuare


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2012)

Hi Jo. Good to have you posting here.

Much as a bit of controversy can be good to stir things up, I think you need to talk to some of the local traders directly and ask them how they feel about Jasper's approach. Far from being a positive force for the festival, it's actually creating bad feeling and disengagement among the businesses I've spoken to.

Re: crediting Pat - will you be ensuring that he now gets the credit he's due and investigating why he was airbrushed out the event's history? His poor treatment has left a bit of a sour taste amongst those in the community who knew the immense effort he put in.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 19, 2012)

Jo Birch-Phaure said:


> Lee's mentioning of businesses that have not supported the event is a controversial step and on a personal level from a PR background
> 
> Jo Birch-Phuare


 
Does your comma not work?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

Jo Birch-Phaure said:


> Dear Forumites,
> 
> As a director of Brixton Splash and a volunteer in a variety of communities and programmes for over 10 years I can assure you myself and the rest of the Board are running Brixton Splash on a voluntary basis and purely for the benefit of a community we love deeply for a wide variety of reasons. No doubt you will see from my picture I am not a Jamaican nor from any Carribbean background but I am a committed, honest and dedicated member of our little team and I can assure you we work together with the rest of the Board to fulfill all of our legal and financial requirements and provide a positive and enjoyable event.
> 
> ...


I don't get it if there's no singualr request how can you as an org or jasper using it is as his own promotional tool name and shame...

can you not see that this kind of bullying blackmailing actiosn will alienate people.

Can you give me a hand?  Sorry I can't

Oi everyone that shyster there isn't helping me they're rubbish don't use them they ruin this community... 

how is it community lead or involved if you're forcing it at the barrel of a gun... do this and help us or we'll use a local celebrity with the controversy card to make your business look bad... 

not very community spirited at all in fact it's anti local community, undemocratic and frankly more than a little creepy... 

we'll screw over local businesses if they don't do exactly what we say, when we say, how we say... 

are you making offers they now can't refuse too... 

what next will they have to pay protection monies to you so that if there's an after party riot as last time it's not causally mentioned those businesses it'd be a shame to see attacked as they didn't support the event etc... you see how twisted this level of immature approach to fund raising can become or how it can be perceived... 

LJ and in turn your org need to work out you catch more with honey than with lemons... 

It's a different kettle of fish if it's big mega corps who will use dirty tactics and shenanigans to attack legitimate protesters but it's quite another to attack local run businesses within their area of work... 

In order to retain the legitimacy of being something for the local community rather than another group attempting to exploit the area for your own gains and purposes I'd strongly advise you to rethink of this ill judge moronic policy...


----------



## gabi (Jul 19, 2012)

and again in English?


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

editor said:


> Hi Jo. Good to have you posting here.
> 
> Much as a bit of controversy can be good to stir things up, I think you need to talk to some of the local traders directly and ask them how they feel about Jasper's approach. Far from being a positive force for the festival, it's actually creating bad feeling and disengagement among the businesses I've spoken to.
> 
> Re: crediting Pat - will you be ensuring that he now gets the credit he's due and investigating why he was airbrushed out the event's history? His poor treatment has left a bit of a sour taste amongst those in the community who knew the immense effort he put in.


 
Yes will be belatedly crediting Pat can you forward that picture. As for the traders I have spoke to lots more over the least two days and they are fine and in support of Splash. When the debates take place we can explore further.


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I don't get it if there's no singualr request how can you as an org or jasper using it is as his own promotional tool name and shame...
> 
> can you not see that this kind of bullying blackmailing actiosn will alienate people.
> 
> ...


 
What next gangsterism and extortion ? Again a quite hysterical reaction to a call for genuine debate on serious issues.


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

editor said:


> Absolutely. I've spoken to a few traders and they're deeply unimpressed with this aggressive, bullying strategy.
> 
> LJ: I note that the website still hasn't been updated and remains guilty of presenting an inaccurate version of the event's history. I think it would be a nice gesture to put in a picture of Pat as well seeing as he was so instrumental in creating Brixton Splash. I've probably got a photo you can use - would you like me to forward it to you?


 
Jo will take care of this now she is back from hols. We need a picture though...


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

editor said:


> I hope we can keep this thread on topic because there's been some very important points raised that need to be discussed fully and openly.
> 
> I'm also keen to find out why Pat had been airbrushed out of Splash's history when he was so clearly a major part of the event.
> 
> ...


 
It does and that what we will do.


----------



## urbanspaceman (Jul 19, 2012)

Jo Birch-Phaure said:


> Dear Forumites,
> 
> As a director of Brixton Splash ...


 
Jo, it's good to hear from another member of the BS board. 

You did not mention Revd John Sakutombo as a member of the Board. Is he still involved ?

You make no reference to the radically expanded aims of BS, that is year-round mentoring, and discuss only the one day festival. Can you tell us more about the year-round plans ?

You say that the naming-and-shaming "is a controversial step and on a personal level from a PR background probably not one I would have taken". But surely what you would do on a personal level is beside the point. You are a director and board member of BS who possesses extensive PR and Marketing expertise. Did the Board not collectively discuss and authorise LJ's "controversial" naming-and-shaming stunt before he embarked upon it ? And surely in making that decision the Board relied heavily on your professional expertise ?

In the wider world people are using the word 'omnishambles" a lot at the moment. It's a word that might be applicable here too. Isn't time that you, armed with the PR skills you told us about, took control of the message ?


----------



## Rushy (Jul 19, 2012)

Hi Jo,

I second what Editor has said. I am glad that your team love your community deeply and have taken this step to distance yourself and the team from his damaging approach. I have also been directly in touch with traders who have been alienated by Lee. One made it absolutely clear last night that they had every intention of contributing but having received an email from Lee linking to his blog about boycotting, now wants absolutely nothing to do with it. 

Lee Jasper is controversial because he is so aggressive, does not listen and at the end of the day is hugely concerned about his own image and stature. I'm sure it makes for a lots of fun in your office but he leaves a bad taste in people's mouth. His type of anger-politics is not what Splash is about for most of us. It is telling that he needs someone like you to come in an clean up after his rampage. He should be capable of doing so himself.

Good luck. I certainly won't have anything to do with Splash other than joining in on the street whilst he is on the board and threatening local businesses. And if Lee's politics continue to creep in to the event I will probably cease participating even in that capacity. I'm sure he will say good riddance. But that's just his charming controversial way of dealing with long term residents and business owners, isn't it.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> What next gangsterism and extortion ? Again a quite hysterical reaction to a call for genuine debate on serious issues.


 
Lee, can you read this: http://www.institute-of-fundraising...-practice-charities-working-with-business.pdf and then consider what you're doing in light of what it recommends? 

Your practices may seem fine to you, but you and Splash aren't operating in isolation.

Through your approach of 'naming and shaming' you're in danger of permanently damaging the perception of Brixton businesses to get involved in *any* business / corporate support to charitable projects in the local community. That may mean that they won't engage with a more effective charity currently working in the area. 

Your attempt to 'promote a debate' comes across to me as just headline grabbing and based solely on your need to make money for BS. It doesn't take into consideration the fact that there are many other organisations whose reputation might be damaged by your bull in a china shop tactics.  

Incidentally, can you tell me what the legal objects of BS are, as written on your Memorandum and Articles of Association? 
many thanks
snowy


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> What next gangsterism and extortion ? Again a quite hysterical reaction to a call for genuine debate on serious issues.


as hysterical as claiming you're going to name and shame local businesses which you've not advised this is your tactic this is thuggish and cowardly behaviour...

why don't you grow up... being controversial for the sake of it and a deliberate contrarian isn't exactly a good pr tactic... besides if you're going down that route involve Darcus at least he knows how to play that card properly... you clearly don't and it's blown up in your face every time... as this stupidness has now...

you can't tell people their reaction to your threats is hysterical, if it's their reaction to it you cannot deny them that ownership of their feelings on the matter. It's not down to you to dictate to the community but to engage with it. how bloody arrogant to tell others what they have a right to feel who the fuck are you and where were you given that right to dictate how others interpret your ill thought out actions? serious arrogant dismissive take on it... grow up... you're supposed to be a man well versed in politics yet you're displaying none of that here... or with your stupid ill thought out dishonest tactics...

btw can you point to the laws these companies have broken by not supporting you? because you seem to misunderstand the legal situation about misrepresenting companies and their actions... exactly how are you intending to Name and Shame (the second part of that idea you should have a significant amount of but seemingly lack any humility to acknowledge).

why have you not updated your poorly spelt website or changed and credited those others involved?


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

Rushy said:


> Hi Jo,
> 
> I second what Editor has said. I am glad that your team love your community deeply and have taken this step to distance yourself and the team from his damaging approach. I have also been directly in touch with traders who have been alienated by Lee. One made it absolutely clear last night that they had every intention of contributing but having received an email from Lee linking to his blog about boycotting, now wants absolutely nothing to do with it.
> 
> ...


 
Rushy your is a distinctly personal and political agenda and thats obvious form your comments, Point of information we are still getting offers of support from local traders. The Board of Brixton Splash is united in our joint commitment to tackle the issues raised. We will continue to do so with or without your specific support. There are many other organisations working in this field you can choose to support and we would certainly encourage you work with them.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Rushy your is a distinctly personal and political agenda and thats obvious form your comments, Point of information we are still getting offers of support from local traders. The Board of Brixton Splash is united in our joint commitment to tackle the issues raised. We will continue to do so with or without your specific support. There are many other organisations working in this field you can choose to support and we would certainly encourage you work with them.


oh great now it's turned into a SWP vs the Trots debate all over again can't you two go to the coffee room and duke it out in private...


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 19, 2012)

Jo Birch-Phaure said:


> Dear Forumites,
> 
> As a director of Brixton Splash and a volunteer in a variety of communities and programmes for over 10 years I can assure you myself and the rest of the Board are running Brixton Splash on a voluntary basis and purely for the benefit of a community we love deeply for a wide variety of reasons. No doubt you will see from my picture I am not a Jamaican nor from any Carribbean background but I am a committed, honest and dedicated member of our little team and I can assure you we work together with the rest of the Board to fulfill all of our legal and financial requirements and provide a positive and enjoyable event.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for coming on Jo.

Was "naming and shaming" of business that did not contribute to Splash a policy decided by Brixton Splash as a whole?

Do you agree that Pat from the Albert should be credited with being one of the main people who started Splash?And if he is ok with it his photo is put on the history page of website?

Can you explain the long term aims of BS? Seems it has changed from one festival to year long dealing with issue of employment/training in Brixton area.


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> as hysterical as claiming you're going to name and shame local businesses which you've not advised this is your tactic this is thuggish and cowardly behaviour...
> 
> why don't you grow up... being controversial for the sake of it and a deliberate contrarian isn't exactly a good pr tactic... besides if you're going down that route involve Darcus at least he knows how to play that card properly... you clearly don't and it's blown up in your face every time... as this stupidness has now...
> 
> ...


 
The debate on all these issues will take place and you should come along. As for the descent into personal insults Ill choose to ignore these as will most.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Rushy your is a distinctly personal and political agenda and thats obvious form your comments, Point of information we are still getting offers of support from local traders. The Board of Brixton Splash is united in our joint commitment to tackle the issues raised. We will continue to do so with or without your specific support. There are many other organisations working in this field you can choose to support and we would certainly encourage you work with them.


 
If my personal and political agenda is clear can you please spell it out for everyone?

And, if business support is so strong, why do you feel the need to start a debate?


----------



## gabi (Jul 19, 2012)

Perspective people. It's a fucking street party. Not a UN summit.


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Lee, can you read this: http://www.institute-of-fundraising...-practice-charities-working-with-business.pdf and then consider what you're doing in light of what it recommends?
> 
> Your practices may seem fine to you, but you and Splash aren't operating in isolation.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for information which we will look at.  We will publish the our aims etc on our web site. I cant see how a debate about these issues can be described as headline grabbing but there you are. The planned  debate is not about Splash in particular, its about community engagement in general.


----------



## asami (Jul 19, 2012)

I have been called a japser. It is very racist term. I did not know it was also a family name.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> The debate on all these issues will take place and you should come along. As for the descent into personal insults Ill choose to ignore these as will most.


you came here to a debate board to spam us without permission debate now stop running away from the issues raised... rather than putting them off to an environment you can control that's not what this place is for... 

I don't think there's been a descent in to personal slanging as yet... other than to say you're making a pigs ear from a PR pov which isn't a personal attack but a clear and obvious observation.  but again who are you to tell others how they may react to your tactics... when were you given the monopoly on others emotions...


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

Rushy said:


> If my personal and political agenda is clear can you please spell it out for everyone?
> 
> And, if business support is so strong, why do you feel the need to start a debate?


 
The public debate is going to be had and you should come along if you have things to contribute. The deeply personal nature of your comments speak volumes. Maybe you would like to articulate them at in a public setting as part of the debate given your strength of feeling we would be happy to accommodate.


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you came here to a debate board to spam us without permission debate now stop running away from the issues raised... rather than putting them off to an environment you can control that's not what this place is for...
> 
> I don't think there's been a descent in to personal slanging as yet... other than to say you're making a pigs ear from a PR pov which isn't a personal attack but a clear and obvious observation. but again who are you to tell others how they may react to your tactics... when were you given the monopoly on others emotions...


 
Really ? Not personal I disgree. Comments on tactics are fine by me but some of the statements have been outrageous.  In any event the public debates will take place and you should come along.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Thanks for information which we will look at. We will publish the our aims etc on our web site. I cant see how a debate about these issues can be described as headline grabbing but there you are. The planned debate is not about Splash in particular, its about community engagement in general.


 

Thanks Lee, I suggest you pay particular attention to the areas marked in red which are the legal requirements involved. Ignoring them, would put you and your fellow directors at risk of legal action.

Secondly, I'm not asking for an explanation of the BS 'aims', I'm asking for the *exact wording o*n your legal document. If you're taking grants from LCF, then I'm sure someone's got the M&A to hand. You also don't seem to update the website too often, so do you want to tell us a date by which you will:

a) provide details of the broadened aims of BS 
b) provide the legal objects of the organisation (so other businesses can have a clearer idea of what you are legally allowed to do)
c) tell us when you'll correct the history of the inception / development of BS and those involved. 

Any comment on the knock on implications for other charities working with local businesses? Bluntly put, IMO you're in danger of pissing on other people's chips.


----------



## gabi (Jul 19, 2012)

What is there to debate? What sound systems are playing? How much red-stripe will cost?

It's a one-day street party. Nothing more nothing less. A chance to get smashed and see old friends.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Really ? Not personal I disgree. Comments on tactics are fine by me but some of the statements have been outrageous. In any event the public debates will take place and you should come along.


nope we don't do insinuation on this board quotes and references citing them not vague nondescript no detail claims...

what exactly are you contributing to this community board other than spamming it by the way should we name and shame you as trying to use the popularity and press attention this place receives to further your orgs aims?  why did you feel it's perfectly ok to come here and break the posting FAQ's without first even having the dignity to approach the sites owner or it's community... again who are you to wander in and dictate terms to us?  and who are you to attempt to hijack the popularity of this site for your own ends?  

stop wriggling and address the issues which are being put to you you came to us we didn't come to you, you attempted to use the site and it's contributors for your own promotional purposes you can't get upset if the sites regulars then get a bit miffed at your manner of doing this... 

stop telling me to turn up to your event and address these issues now, spammer...


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Thanks Lee, I suggest you pay particular attention to the areas marked in red which are the legal requirements involved. Ignoring them, would put you and your fellow directors at risk of legal action.
> 
> Secondly, I'm not asking for an explanation of the BS 'aims', I'm asking for the *exact wording o*n your legal document. If you're taking grants from LCF, then I'm sure someone's got the M&A to hand.
> 
> Any comment on the knock on implications for other charities working with local businesses? Bluntly put, IMO you're in danger of pissing on other people's chips.


 
Yes we will do so. In relation to M&A yes we will put them up as soon as.  As for the knock on effect it will be interesting to see to what extent there is broad engagement with community groups. The anecdotal feedback I get from community groups is this is minimal for all sorts of reasons so the debates will be an opportunity to explore further.


----------



## Ted Striker (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Really ? Not personal I disgree. Comments on tactics are fine by me but some of the statements have been outrageous.


 
Like the accusations of racism?


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> nope we don't do insinuation on this board quotes and references citing them not vague nondescript no detail claims...
> 
> what exactly are you contributing to this community board other than spamming it by the way should we name and shame you as trying to use the popularity and press attention this place receives to further your orgs aims? why did you feel it's perfectly ok to come here and break the posting FAQ's without first even having the dignity to approach the sites owner or it's community... again who are you to wander in and dictate terms to us? and who are you to attempt to hijack the popularity of this site for your own ends?
> 
> ...


 
Thats another question for another day. I have been as response as I can. If you don't want to attend the debate than thats up to you we will produce a report that will no doubt prompt further discussion.


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## Rushy (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> The public debate is going to be had and you should come along if you have things to contribute. The deeply personal nature of your comments speak volumes. Maybe you would like to articulate them at in a public setting as part of the debate given your strength of feeling we would be happy to accommodate.


 
You have made it personal to the extent that even your own board directors are posting on here distancing themselves personally from your 'controversial approach'. You have made it about "The Man" but you still can't see it!

I would be happy to attend a debate in which you also participated but not one initiated or chaired by you (or Splash, whilst you are chair). You know how to find me if such a debate comes about.


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## snowy_again (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Yes we will do so. In relation to M&A yes we will put them up as soon as.


 
Go on Lee, give us an *exact date* by which its done. Or is that me trying to coerce you?


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## The Octagon (Jul 19, 2012)

Real people and the internet shouldn't mix


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Thats another question for another day. I have been as response as I can. If you don't want to attend the debate than thats up to you we will produce a report that will no doubt prompt further discussion.


no it's a question of why you came to the board and spammed our community... 

do you think you can just foist your concept of what should happen on other regardless of their wishes?

this isn't looking hopeful for any kind of debate if you're not capable or willing to debate them now is it?

so try again and this time try doing the one thing you've entirely failed to do with this performance so far and engage and respond...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> Real people and the internet shouldn't mix


he should expect us...


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## Puddy_Tat (Jul 19, 2012)

I'm something of an outsider here, but as someone who has been involved in voluntary organisations and has worked for small businesses

a) not getting involved with one particular non-profit organisation on the strength of one mailshot does not necessarily mean that a business is failing "to ensure it is engaging with the community"

b) most businesses can not afford to say yes to every single charity / community organisation that asks for money / help in kind

c) engagement is a two-way street.  If said non-profit organisation's reaction to not getting a response to the single mailshot is to start "naming and shaming" then it's not really going to encourage any chance of engagement in the future.


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## Rushy (Jul 19, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Go on Lee, give us an *exact date* by which its done. Or is that me trying to coerce you?


You're being unfair. I don't think you appreciate how much a small operation like theirs has to deal with on a daily basis with limited resources, budgetary constraints and other priorities.

Give them a day or two before you start naming, shaming and calling for a debate.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Rushy your is a distinctly personal and political agenda and thats obvious form your comments, Point of information we are still getting offers of support from local traders. The Board of Brixton Splash is united in our joint commitment to tackle the issues raised. We will continue to do so with or without your specific support. There are many other organisations working in this field you can choose to support and we would certainly encourage you work with them.


 
According to the post by Jo #252 naming and shaming is a "controversial step and on a personal level from a PR background probebaly not one I would have taken".

I take your point about getting support from some traders. In light of Jo- a Director of BS- comment will you now not "name and shame" those business that do not give a contribution after the event? But only name those who have contributed.

Also can you clarify if the "naming and shaming" of traders was discussed and agreed by the Board of BS?

Jo says she is a Director of BS. Was she told about the "naming and shaming" of traders? Was she told that you would be writing a piece on your Blog and on Brixton Blog?


----------



## Lee Japser (Jul 19, 2012)

I have named a small number of local businesses that chose not to support Brixton Splash this year. This was not meant as a criticism and listening to feedback and general concerns we will not now be publishing a list of these business.

I understand that many small businesses and medium sized businesses have many competing demands on their resources. Brixton has some great businesses all at the heart of the community. This has become more evident as a consequence of recent debate. To those businesses who have chosen not to support Brixton Splash, we would hope that they would consider supporting the sponsoring of other local events and organisations that deal with the mentoring young people seeking to get into employment and or considering starting their own business through the many such programmes working in central Brixton.
Small businesses are a ital part of the local community and can stimulate growth and opportunities, and we urge everyone to support local traders as much as possible – especially, but not only, those who sponsor the Splash.

How to encourage and support local business are engagement in supporting local community initiatives remains an issue that we intend to return to later in the year. Thank you and do come and enjoy this years Splash.


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I have named a small number of local businesses that chose not to support Brixton Splash this year. This was not meant as a criticism and listening to feedback and general concerns we will not now be publishing a list of these business.


That's definitely a positive step.


----------



## colacubes (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I have named a small number of local businesses that chose not to support Brixton Splash this year. This was not meant as a criticism and listening to feedback and general concerns we will not now be publishing a list of these business.
> 
> I understand that many small businesses and medium sized businesses have many competing demands on their resources. Brixton has some great businesses all at the heart of the community. This has become more evident as a consequence of recent debate. To those businesses who have chosen not to support Brixton Splash, we would hope that they would consider supporting the sponsoring of other local events and organisations that deal with the mentoring young people seeking to get into employment and or considering starting their own business through the many such programmes working in central Brixton.
> Small businesses are a ital part of the local community and can stimulate growth and opportunities, and we urge everyone to support local traders as much as possible – especially, but not only, those who sponsor the Splash.
> ...


 
Glad you're not going to publish the list   I really think you'll get more engagement and support for the future by not doing so.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 19, 2012)

I fear this debate is less a real debate but more a publicity event in disguise.

no matter what happens at the event large turn out can be claimed as a success.


there is no way of telling at this point but the lack of ansers now and a continual push for the event does raise alarm bells

apologies if this  fear is misplaced.  it's  just you never can tell  with a lot of these things


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## Rushy (Jul 19, 2012)

Edited due to crossed posts:

Well done Lee for recognising the error of your ways - even if you have a strange way of admitting it.

Brixton Blog article complete with references to this thread here: http://www.brixtonblog.com/businesses-hit-back-in-brixton-splash-row/5897


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## Gramsci (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> The public debate is going to be had and you should come along if you have things to contribute. The deeply personal nature of your comments speak volumes. Maybe you would like to articulate them at in a public setting as part of the debate given your strength of feeling we would be happy to accommodate.


 
Thing is Lee social networks are getting more and more used. See the Arab Spring etc. I see you use Blogs ,Twitter and this site to promote your views. Fair enough. Rushy is entitled to express his forthright opinions here without being told to do it in a "public setting..we would be happy to accomodate". Which comes across to me as somewhat intimidating comment. His comments here are just as valid here as done face to face. This is the new world of social network that you use to its full extent. So I think Rushy is entitled to use it as well.

And I am saying this as someone who has not always seen eye to eye with Rushy on other issues on Urban


----------



## Rushy (Jul 19, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> Thing is Lee social networks are getting more and more used. See the Arab Spring etc. I see you use Blogs ,Twitter and this site to promote your views. Fair enough. Rushy is entitled to express his forthright opinions here without being told to do it in a "public setting..we would be happy to accomodate". Which comes across to me as somewhat intimidating comment. His comments here are just as valid here as done face to face. This is the new world of social network that you use to its full extent. So I think Rushy is entitled to use it as well.
> 
> And I am saying this as someone who has not always seen eye to eye with Rushy on other issues on Urban


 
I almost shed a tear, Gramsci! [** sniff**]


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I fear this debate is less a real debate but more a publicity event in disguise.
> 
> no matter what happens at the event large turn out can be claimed as a success.
> 
> ...


are you suggesting that a firebrand might come here start a flame war to encourage people to traipse off to their traffic untroubled site in the hopes it will drum up interest in the glowing rave underpants which they're selling... never.

Surely we should have a rule against that kind of thing... some where when people sign up so they're aware of it before they can post sort of thing... make em agree in some kind of terms or conditions...


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 19, 2012)

Where does one buy such undergarments?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Where does one buy such undergarments?


we will never know there's rules against us being told...


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I have named a small number of local businesses that chose not to support Brixton Splash this year. This was not meant as a criticism and listening to feedback and general concerns we will not now be publishing a list of these business.


 
At last, shame it took so long for you to wake-up to your mistake.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 19, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> At last, shame it took so long for you to wake-up to your mistake.


still not apologised for coming on to the boards and spamming us though has he... just think of the number of local and national activists on here who might with a little wired engagement have wanted to get involved or lend a hand and how they've been alienated by the manner in which this has now come across even with the begrudging admittance the tactic may not have been wise...


----------



## Rushy (Jul 19, 2012)

It would seem that LJ has been told in no uncertain terms to pull his neck in by his Splash colleagues.

If he has accepted the criticism, then it would be a welcome gesture if he would withdraw the naming and shaming on his blog: San Marino, everyone in Brixton Village, KFC, beauty shop on Atlantic... .


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 19, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I have named a small number of local businesses that chose not to support Brixton Splash this year. This was not meant as a criticism and listening to feedback and general concerns we will not now be publishing a list of these business.
> 
> I understand that many small businesses and medium sized businesses have many competing demands on their resources. Brixton has some great businesses all at the heart of the community. This has become more evident as a consequence of recent debate. To those businesses who have chosen not to support Brixton Splash, we would hope that they would consider supporting the sponsoring of other local events and organisations that deal with the mentoring young people seeking to get into employment and or considering starting their own business through the many such programmes working in central Brixton.
> Small businesses are a ital part of the local community and can stimulate growth and opportunities, and we urge everyone to support local traders as much as possible – especially, but not only, those who sponsor the Splash.
> ...


 
Thanks for this Lee. I hope this is an end to the matter. 

If the matter is to be returned to later in the year I hope it is done in a way that encourages local small business and offers them opportunities which they can either involve themselves or not without any sanctions. 

The is a recession and austerity is hitting a lot of people hard. The cuts are continuing and those on low and middle incomes are going to be affected the most. But it is not the sole trader and small shops that are the problem it is this Tory/ LD government and there friends in the City who are the real enemy.

As you would see if you looked at some of the older threads here many of the concerns you spell out about Brixton have been discussed here. By many of the same posters who have criticised you for naming and shaming a few local business. So there could be common ground.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 20, 2012)

I note that Lee has withdrawn the offending blog post from his site. I think that is a really positive move. Well done Lee.

Encouraging further interaction between businesses and the community is a positive aim. I hope that if it is something that Lee intends to pick up and run with he will be able to do so in a manner that does not focus disproportionally on particular ethnic groups but simply on those individuals and groups of individuals who need it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 20, 2012)

Rushy said:


> I note that Lee has withdrawn the offending blog post from his site. I think that is a really positive move. Well done Lee.
> 
> Encouraging further interaction between businesses and the community is a positive aim. I hope that if it is something that Lee intends to pick up and run with he will be able to do so in a manner that does not focus disproportionally on particular ethnic groups but simply on those individuals and groups of individuals who need it.



Indeed, that was very good of him and shows he's prepared to engage in good faith. Unlike some of the people on here.


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm very disappointed to see Jasper has taken to posting inflammatory comments about the community here on the Brixton Blog. Far from throwing around 'crude racial stereotypes', the posters here have given Jasper _*excellent*_ feedback about the impact his negative tactics were having on local traders.



			
				Jasper said:
			
		

> I find some of the silly accusations and personal comments of minority contributors, stereotypical and loaded with assumptions. If the entire threads are read that becomes apparent. I felt that one in particular on the U75 was indeed informed by a crude racial stereotype.
> We have captured these comments so the local community can judge for themselves their tone and tenor . I think most people will be shocked. A significant section of the local community who form part of our core constituency are not on line so a public debate is an important aspect of further discussion


I'm curious as to what this "capturing the comments" phrase means. Could you explain?

I'm also disappointed to note that the event site is still airbrushing Pat out of its history:


> The festival was the brainchild of Ros Griffiths (Social Entrepreneur) and Blacker Dread (DJ, Reggae Producer)


The question that remains outstanding - despite being asked many, many times - is this: why has Pat _never_ been given any credit?

Everyone involved in Splash was *fully aware* of his contributions from the start, yet he has been repeatedly blanked over many years in his attempts to get any credit for his efforts. So why is Splash still conspiring to keep him out of its history?


----------



## fortyplus (Jul 20, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> I have named a small number of local businesses that chose not to support Brixton Splash this year. This was not meant as a criticism and listening to feedback and general concerns we will not now be publishing a list of these business.
> 
> I understand that many small businesses and medium sized businesses have many competing demands on their resources. Brixton has some great businesses all at the heart of the community. This has become more evident as a consequence of recent debate. To those businesses who have chosen not to support Brixton Splash, we would hope that they would consider supporting the sponsoring of other local events and organisations that deal with the mentoring young people seeking to get into employment and or considering starting their own business through the many such programmes working in central Brixton.
> Small businesses are a ital part of the local community and can stimulate growth and opportunities, and we urge everyone to support local traders as much as possible – especially, but not only, those who sponsor the Splash.
> ...


 
Thanks Lee. Where do I send the consultancy invoice?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 20, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm very disappointed to see Jasper has taken to posting inflammatory comments about the community here on the Brixton Blog. Far from throwing around 'crude racial stereotypes', the posters here have given Jasper _*excellent*_ feedback about the impact his negative tactics were having on local traders.
> 
> I'm curious as to what this "capturing the comments" phrase means. Could you explain?
> 
> ...



Are you Pats legal representative? Why hasn't Pat got in touch with BS directly if he feels so passionately about being recognized?


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why hasn't Pat got in touch with BS directly if he feels so passionately about being recognized?


He has. Repeatedly. Time and time again over several years, but he kept being ignored for reasons yet to be explained. This is the only place where he's got an answer.


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2012)

Here's Pat posting about it back in 2009:


passpat2 said:


> I did get my goat a bit when I watched the promo video online, with someone taking all the credit and hyping it as her idea.. .. Especially when, after putting it on my cv, I was questioned about any involvement in the first year at all, at an interview.. Made me look rather foolish, yes not hard I know . . .


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 20, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm very disappointed to see Jasper has taken to posting inflammatory comments about the community here on the Brixton Blog. Far from throwing around 'crude racial stereotypes', the posters here have given Jasper _*excellent*_ feedback about the impact his negative tactics were having on local traders.
> 
> I'm curious as to what this "capturing the comments" phrase means. Could you explain?
> 
> ...


 
I would also like to know what Lee Jasper means by "a significant section of the local community who form part of our core constituency" in his BB blog comment.

Looking at Brixton Splash home page again it says the one day festival is to "celebrate the areas diversity" and "the fusion of numerous ethnic groups that now call Brixton home".

If Brixton is representative of this fusion I am part of it. Therefore I am part of this constituency.


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 20, 2012)

so let me get this straight.  to us he backs down in the face of criticism.  to others he accuses us of some unspecified racism.  he does nothing else.

what a tool.


----------



## gabi (Jul 20, 2012)

He does come across as a bit of a cunt. Which mayor was he advising? boris or ken?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 20, 2012)

editor said:


> He has. Repeatedly. Time and time again over several years, but he kept being ignored for reasons yet to be explained. This is the only place where he's got an answer.



So why are you speaking on his behalf? Everyone else has come on to this thread spoken directly with LJ and received answers.


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## editor (Jul 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So why are you speaking on his behalf? Everyone else has come on to this thread spoken directly with LJ and received answers.


Because he couldn't get an answer himself, because he's a friend, because I'm pissed off with the way he was treated and because I'd like to find out exactly why he has been airbrushed out of the event's history. I think it's an important issue, even if you don't.

I've always been very supportive of Brixton Splash - this site even played a small part in its creation - and I want to keep on liking and supporting it, but Jasper's making that a little hard right now.


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## Rushy (Jul 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed, that was very good of him and shows he's prepared to engage in good faith. Unlike some of the people on here.


 
It's a pity that people cannot stand up and object to harassment when they see it in their community without being accused of having ulterior motives. I haven't seen any obvious evidence of ulterior motives on this thread be they racist, political, personal or otherwise. LJ has certainly claimed all of these and claims to have evidence of them although he repetedly refuses to respond to requests that he clarify the basis upon which he makes those accusations. Yes, there have been a small number of catty remarks but remarkably few when compared to other threads - like anyone, he just needs to accept that comes with the interweb territory and not let it distract him from his quest.


If Jasper is worried about people taking issue with his personal points of view and personal calls for action then he should present them as coming from a group. He needs to find defined and identifiable groups who share his more controversial views rather than tagging on to more broad appeal mainstream organisations like Splash and using them as a platform. Doing so just forces them to distance themselves from his remarks, rendering them personal.


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## eye doc (Jul 20, 2012)

Hey! Am i imagining things or did my post disappear.? I don't agree with Jasper's methodology but his findings are CORRECT! Why not 'name' business' that don't support the Splash? The Asin owned stores along Atlantic make £££££££'s a week from BLACK PATRONAGE and yet employ very few, if any, black staff. Fact.

The 'new' Brixton is , in reality very , very, very white and has no real connection with either us Brixton people that have been here for years ( that's cool!) but more importantly DOES NOT EMPLOY ANY BLACK PEOPLE! Not cool.

So, as much as LJ has pi**ed people of for having the audacity to state the very obvious, he went ahead and said it. Rather than shoot the messenger and ignore the message I suggest you all take a looooooong hard look at what's going down here. Black folks are being sidelined out of OUR town.


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## editor (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Hey! Am i imagining things or did my post disappear.?


I'm afraid you are imagining things.

No posts have been removed or edited in any way.


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## gabi (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> The Asin owned stores along Atlantic make £££££££'s a week from BLACK PATRONAGE and yet employ very few, if any, black staff. Fact.


 
I can't say I've noticed that many Asian faces working behind the counters at Brixton's black-owned pattie shops.. stupid fucking point to raise.


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## eye doc (Jul 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> I can't say I've noticed that many Asian faces working behind the counters at Brixton's black-owned pattie shops.. stupid fucking point to raise.


Cant say I noticed many Asians faces buying patties from Black people-have you?! Lol! But I sure have seen hundreds of Black people buying products from Asian store owners. Agree? Ur point was waaaay more stupider(?!) than mine. PS no need to swear.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 20, 2012)

i would have thought most of these places are family run.

in fact i would have thought a lot of small businesses  would   have  only a few members of staff  probably  family members  meaning   they wouldn't be a true reflection of  the  ethnic diversity of the localarea.


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## eye doc (Jul 20, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i would have thought most of these places are family run which would explain a lot.


Really? Are you basing this thought/assumption upon fact or stereotype? The fact is the business' which generate ££££££'s from BLACK CUSTOMERS along Atlantic Road and Electric EMPLOY Black people...But are happy to take their money. It is what it is.


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## eye doc (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Really? Are you basing this thought/assumption upon fact or stereotype? The fact is the business' which generate ££££££'s from BLACK CUSTOMERS along Atlantic Road and Electric EMPLOY Black people...But are happy to take their money. It is what it is.


( CORRECTION) Really? Are you basing this thought/assumption upon fact or stereotype? The fact is the business' which generate ££££££'s from BLACK CUSTOMERS along Atlantic Road and Electric DO NOT EMPLOY ANY BLACK PEOPLE...But are happy to take their money. It is what it is.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 20, 2012)

just small business dynamics. plus having been in a lot of them.

i would finger nepotism before racism


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## gabi (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> ( CORRECTION) Really? Are you basing this thought/assumption upon fact or stereotype? The fact is the business' which generate ££££££'s from BLACK CUSTOMERS along Atlantic Road and Electric DO NOT EMPLOY ANY BLACK PEOPLE...But are happy to take their money. It is what it is.


 
Are you racist?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> Are you racist?


 
given the local population is about 50% white but he doesn't care that they arn't represented i do have to wonder


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## urbanspaceman (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Black folks are being sidelined out of OUR town.


 
I have lived in Coldharbour ward (which includes central Brixton) for 28 years. But I'm not black. Why do you believe Brixton's _your_ town but not _my_ town ?


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## eye doc (Jul 20, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> just small business dynamics. plus having been in a lot of them.


Right. Small biz dynamics?! Where the many small biz' u were involved part of your family or were you employed by other families? in I tell you what, you take a walk thru Atlaantic Rd and look at the shops- what they sell n how much they earn- and be honest with yourself. What do these men do for the local people of Brixton. Where is the problem with asking the question? I'm glad someone has finally stated the obvious. Asian traders grow very wealthy from Black support. Fact.


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## Blagsta (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Right. Small biz dynamics?! Where the many small biz' u were involved part of your family or were you employed by other families? in I tell you what, you take a walk thru Atlaantic Rd and look at the shops- what they sell n how much they earn- and be honest with yourself. What do these men do for the local people of Brixton. Where is the problem with asking the question? I'm glad someone has finally stated the obvious. Asian traders grow very wealthy from Black support. Fact.


 
So what?


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## RaverDrew (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Cant say I noticed many Asians faces buying patties from Black people-have you?! Lol!


 
I have, as a local who's been brought up around Brixton since birth for over 30 years, I've seen plenty of people from all backgrounds frequent "black" business' here.

You and LJ are both coming across yourselves as pretty spiteful and divisive racists, your agenda is very transparent.


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## eye doc (Jul 20, 2012)

urbanspaceman said:


> I have lived in Coldharbour ward (which includes central Brixton) for 28 years. But I'm not black. Why do you believe Brixton's _your_ town but not _my_ town ?


I Never said I was Black! And I too live in Coldharbour Ward. If your default setting is seeing me as Black because I said 'our' town then it says so much about your attitudes to the Black people of Coldharbour Ward.IMHO.  Moreover, in Guinness Trust estate , in Coldharbour Ward, I hear the landlords evicted 400 black people- rent payers, not squatters- and are now filling the vacant properties with white people? Have you heard about this?


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## eye doc (Jul 20, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I have, as a local who's been brought up around Brixton since birth for over 30 years, I've seen plenty of people from all backgrounds frequent "black" business' here.
> 
> You and LJ are both coming across yourselves as pretty spiteful and divisive racists, your agenda is very transparent.


I'm NOT BLACK! Nor am I Racist. With the exception of a couple of offy's on Coldharbour Lane we dont really spend our money with Black biz. Stop it.


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## boohoo (Jul 20, 2012)

I think eye doc is a troll.


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## Blagsta (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> I'm NOT BLACK! Nor am I Racist. With the exception of a couple of offy's on Coldharbour Lane we dont really spend our money with Black biz. Stop it.


Why are you racialising an economic issue?


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## RaverDrew (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> I'm NOT BLACK! Nor am I Racist. With the exception of a couple of offy's on Coldharbour Lane we dont really spend our money with Black biz. Stop it.


 
Where did I say that you were black ?

I merely mentioned that your agenda was transparent.

Trolling race issues is low eye doc. 

Find yourself a more constructive hobby.


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## Yelkcub (Jul 20, 2012)

Only just read the whole thread. Doesn't need a lot of thought. Jasper's a self-aggrandizing fool and if having attacked local businesses for not handing his organisation cash on demand, he and his colleagues don't see his position is untenable, I'd be amazed if they get any support from anyone else.

I'm not local and I don't know any of the people involved. It's just an impartial, commonsense opinion.  

Oh, and the allegations of racism earier in the thread - really?


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## fortyplus (Jul 20, 2012)

There's a variation  of Godwin's Law which applies to many threads about Brixton. Seems to be coming to the fore now.

Brixton is our town, no matter what colour we are. Thirty years ago its dominant culture was Jamaican (even if, even then, white people were more numerous) ; it  now has  more Hispanic and African people and businesses, and there's a new generation of people of Jamaican heritage. I think it's much better for being more diverse, just as it's better for jerk chicken, patties and dub. 

Change often does breed resentment, and sometimes that resentment is justified.  No one denies that there is prejudice, or that some employers are prejudiced in their hiring practices. It's not just a Brixton thing.

There are conflicting views of what Brixton should be. Should it be a melting-pot, with lots of different cultures working, living, working and partying together- a place that will absorb each new wave of migrants as it did the Windrush generation? Should it be London's Jamaica-town, Kingston-upon-Effra? Or should it be the home of the capital's  obsession with exotic foodieisim? 

It should, of course, be all three and more, and if Brixton Splash means anything it means celebrating the many different faces of Brixton. This year, being the 50th anniversary of Jamaica's independence, is  as good a year as any to highlight the Jamaica connection (for which us non-Jamaican Brixtonians are very grateful) so long as it doesn't somehow imply that in Brixton, Jamaican heritage trumps all the others.


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## urbanspaceman (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> I Never said I was Black! And I too live in Coldharbour Ward. If your default setting is seeing me as Black because I said 'our' town then it says so much about your attitudes to the Black people of Coldharbour Ward.IMHO. Moreover, in Guinness Trust estate , in Coldharbour Ward, I hear the landlords evicted 400 black people- rent payers, not squatters- and are now filling the vacant properties with white people? Have you heard about this?


 
You said: "Black folks are being sidelined out of OUR town." So I, not unreasonably, connected the possessive pronoun "our" to the prior noun "folks". And since "folks" is modified by "black", a valid interpretation of this sentence is to infer that the author is black.

You claim that this "says so much about your attitudes to the Black people of Coldharbour Ward". I disagree - I think it says rather more about my attitudes towards grammar and syntax.


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## eye doc (Jul 20, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Where did I say that you were black ?
> 
> I merely mentioned that your agenda was transparent.
> 
> ...


I am not a troll. I live in Brixton . I am not a racist . Engage the debate as to what LJ raised. So He's 'racist' because he said it as he saw and I'm 'racist' because I dare to agree with him? Even though he's Black and I'm white! And you call me divisive?! LOl!
Still no response on the Guinness evicting 400 black people and replacing them with whites. Put in the context of LJ's comments I thought the many detractors would have something more substantial to say. Any, I have to head back to work- lunch over.


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## eye doc (Jul 20, 2012)

urbanspaceman said:


> You said: "Black folks are being sidelined out of OUR town." So I, not unreasonably, connected the possessive pronoun "our" to the prior noun "folks". And since "folks" is modified by "black", a valid interpretation of this sentence is to infer that the author is black.
> 
> You claim that this "says so much about your attitudes to the Black people of Coldharbour Ward". I disagree - I think it says rather more about my attitudes towards grammar and syntax.


Please dont Bull Shit me with your ramblings. You dig? Lol!


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## RaverDrew (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> I am not a troll. I live in Brixton . I am not a racist . Engage the debate as to what LJ raised. So He's 'racist' because he said it as he saw and I'm 'racist' because I dare to agree with him? Even though he's Black and I'm white! And you call me divisive?! LOl!
> Still no response on the Guinness evicting 400 black people and replacing them with whites. Put in the context of LJ's comments I thought the many detractors would have something more substantial to say. Any, I have to head back to work- lunch over.


 
No, I'm calling you out for trolling and racism because you're spreading lies and disinformation.




eye doc said:


> The Asin owned stores along Atlantic make £££££££'s a week from BLACK PATRONAGE and yet employ very few, if any, black staff. Fact.
> 
> ...but more importantly DOES NOT EMPLOY ANY BLACK PEOPLE! Not cool.


 


eye doc said:


> Cant say I noticed many Asians faces buying patties from Black people-have you?! Lol! But I sure have seen hundreds of Black people buying products from Asian store owners.


 
These specifically.


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## Blagsta (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> I am not a troll. I live in Brixton . I am not a racist . Engage the debate as to what LJ raised. So He's 'racist' because he said it as he saw and I'm 'racist' because I dare to agree with him? Even though he's Black and I'm white! And you call me divisive?! LOl!
> Still no response on the Guinness evicting 400 black people and replacing them with whites. Put in the context of LJ's comments I thought the many detractors would have something more substantial to say. Any, I have to head back to work- lunch over.


 
Why are you racialising an economic issue?


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## editor (Jul 20, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Still no response on the Guinness evicting 400 black people and replacing them with whites.


It wasn't just '400 blacks' that were evicted from that estate, neither are all the incomers entirely white. Once again, you're clumsily trying to inflate an economic issue into a race issue. Or just trolling.

Educate yourself here:
http://www.urban75.org/blog/guinness-trust-somerleyton-rd-brixton-fights-the-landlords/
http://www.urban75.org/blog/guinness-trust-estate-campaign-continues-in-brixton-video/


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## claphamboy (Jul 20, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm very disappointed to see Jasper has taken to posting inflammatory comments about the community here on the Brixton Blog. Far from throwing around 'crude racial stereotypes', the posters here have given Jasper _*excellent*_ feedback about the impact his negative tactics were having on local traders.


 
Some people never learn, such people are commonly known as idiots.

Others pretend to learn and then go elsewhere to throw a hissy fit about those that have helped them to understand the issue, such people are commonly known as fucking idiots.


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## editor (Jul 20, 2012)

On a more positive note, I heard that around 50 local unemployed local people have been taken on and trained to provide security for the event.

That's the kind of news that Splash should be generating rather than all the negative publicity being generated by Jasper's antics.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

Just heard that Jasper has resigned. I'll post the full statement later.


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## RaverDrew (Jul 21, 2012)

oh dear


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2012)

There's nothing on his blog or Twitter. How has this been verified?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

I've been sent a press release from the Brixton Splash board. I'm DJing now so can't post it up!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 21, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Really? Are you basing this thought/assumption upon fact or stereotype? The fact is the business' which generate ££££££'s from BLACK CUSTOMERS along Atlantic Road and Electric EMPLOY Black people...But are happy to take their money. It is what it is.


 
Lots of local Asian convenient stores countrywide don't employ white people either.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2012)

editor said:


> I've been sent a press release from the Brixton Splash board. I'm DJing now so can't post it up!



Ah right fair enough.


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## free spirit (Jul 21, 2012)

Is this thread an indication of how Lee Jasper has operated more generally?

This has to rank as about the most crass and unprofessional approach to fundraising and sponsorship for a community event I've ever seen.

As for why businesses won't sponsor them... well for starters, sponsors don't even merit a link to their website from the brixton splash website, which would instantly count me out.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

I've posted the official statement here:
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/lee-jasper-resigns-as-chair-of-brixton-splash.296553/


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## claphamboy (Jul 21, 2012)

free spirit said:


> This has to rank as about the most crass and unprofessional approach to fundraising and sponsorship for a community event I've ever seen.


 
Couldn't agree more.

The only question that remains is did he actually resign off his own back or was he forced to resign.

Whichever it was, at least it should help to repair the damage he has done.


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## Lee Japser (Jul 21, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Thanks Lee. Where do I send the consultancy invoice?


May thanks ...your advice was appreciated as you can see.


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## Alo Licentia! (Jul 21, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> May thanks ...your advice was appreciated as you can see.


Hi Lee!

I'm wallowing in a bath of gloat.


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## Gramsci (Jul 21, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> Jo will take care of this now she is back from hols. We need a picture though...


 
I see Lee Jasper has resigned.

 I hope the issue of Pat is not now forgotten.

LJ says here that Jo will take care of this. As LJ says Jo Birch-Phaure  will deal with this I assume the board of Brixton Splash have agreed this in principle and will not now say it was just LJ agreeing to Pat being credited on the BS website.


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## Gramsci (Jul 21, 2012)

Jo Birch-Phaure said:


> Dear Forumites,
> 
> As a director of Brixton Splash and a volunteer in a variety of communities and programmes for over 10 years I can assure you myself and the rest of the Board are running Brixton Splash on a voluntary basis and purely for the benefit of a community we love deeply for a wide variety of reasons. No doubt you will see from my picture I am not a Jamaican nor from any Carribbean background but I am a committed, honest and dedicated member of our little team and I can assure you we work together with the rest of the Board to fulfill all of our legal and financial requirements and provide a positive and enjoyable event.
> 
> ...


 
Dear Jo,
                 now Lee Jasper has resigned I hope you will ensure Pat is credited on the Brixton Splash site as agreed by Lee Jasper here on this thread.

Are you going to ensure this is done?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

Lee Japser said:


> May thanks ...your advice was appreciated as you can see.


I hope you're going to keep posting here on other topics. This board likes people with opinions.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 21, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Right. Small biz dynamics?! Where the many small biz' u were involved part of your family or were you employed by other families? in I tell you what, you take a walk thru Atlaantic Rd and look at the shops- what they sell n how much they earn- and be honest with yourself. What do these men do for the local people of Brixton. Where is the problem with asking the question? I'm glad someone has finally stated the obvious. Asian traders grow very wealthy from Black support. Fact.


oh boy


eye doc said:


> Still no response on the Guinness evicting 400 black people and replacing them with whites.



but if you can provide _actual_ evidence of your statement I'll happily go peruse it as a resident of said estate.
Enjoy your lunch.


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## quimcunx (Jul 21, 2012)

Tesco say they are opening another store on Brixton Hill.  they also say if you want them to fund local community events to contact them before the store opens and they will consider it.


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## Rushy (Jul 21, 2012)

I'm sorry that it came to this but it is probably the correct outcome given the controversial nature of LJs views on this particular matter and strength and unanimity of local opposition. 

Good luck to the Splash team.
Here's to another fantastic community party on 5 August.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 21, 2012)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> oh boy


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## Yelkcub (Jul 21, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> Only just read the whole thread. Doesn't need a lot of thought. Jasper's a self-aggrandizing fool and if having attacked local businesses for not handing his organisation cash on demand, he and his colleagues don't see his position is untenable, I'd be amazed if they get any support from anyone else.
> 
> I'm not local and I don't know any of the people involved. It's just an impartial, commonsense opinion.
> 
> Oh, and the allegations of racism earier in the thread - really?




;-)


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> *popcorn*


 
Where's that layabout longdog with the deckchairs?


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

Twills said:


> Joe. Mcc. Fuck my fat fingers


 
No thanks.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

CH1 said:


> I agree that hubris is a terrible sin - look what happened to Dr Owen - then he goes and writes a book called "The Hubris Syndrome"! I can't be bothered to read it to find out if it is a confession of guilt in the matter.
> Regarding Lee Jasper in action - I was impressed by the way he handled the large protest meeting following the death of Smiley Culture. He was able to allow all the frustrations and fears of people to be expressed without things spinning out of control - and then wind the meting down afterwards in an orderly way.
> He is more of a Rev Jesse Jackson type of politician in my view.


 
The word you're looking for is "demagogue". 



> I very much doubt if Comrade Jasper's Cadres are any threat to anyone on Urban 75 - in any way.
> I would rather have Lee Jasper in control of such a meeting than Donatus Anyanwu for example. That is assuming that Donatus would have thought there was any reason to have a meeting.
> IMHO it is people like Donatus who are truly hubristic, out of touch and feathering nests to boot!


 
DA is a "big fish" in a small local authority ocean. Hubris goes with the territory.
Mr. Jasper's political stage is much bigger, the audiences he plays to much larger than DA's. If he *weren't* able to play an audience better than DA, I'd be worried!


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## claphamboy (Jul 21, 2012)

Oh Christ, VP is replying to posts dating back to last Wednesday, this is going to be worst than JC2 catching-up on a thread.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So why are you speaking on his behalf? Everyone else has come on to this thread spoken directly with LJ and received answers.


 
The same reason you're playing advocate for Mr. Jasper, perhaps?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Oh Christ, VP is replying to posts dating back to last Wednesday, this is going to be worst than JC2 catching-up on a thread.


 
Do one!


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 21, 2012)




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## free spirit (Jul 21, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Oh Christ, VP is replying to posts dating back to last Wednesday, this is going to be worst than JC2 catching-up on a thread.


while VP's doing that, can I just take the opportunity to point out that Brixton has never been a village - the 'ton' bit means 'town', so for as long as it's been called brixton, it obviously hasn't been a village.


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## claphamboy (Jul 21, 2012)

free spirit said:


> while VP's doing that, can I just take the opportunity to point out that *Brixton has never been a village* - the 'ton' bit means 'town', so for as long as it's been called brixton, it obviously hasn't been a village.


 
[pogo mode]

That has been pointed out already.

[/pogo mode]


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Hey! Am i imagining things or did my post disappear.? I don't agree with Jasper's methodology but his findings are CORRECT! Why not 'name' business' that don't support the Splash? The Asin owned stores along Atlantic make £££££££'s a week from BLACK PATRONAGE and yet employ very few, if any, black staff. Fact.


 
If it's a fact, you should easily be able to prove your claim, shouldn't you?
Go on then!



> The 'new' Brixton is , in reality very , very, very white and has no real connection with either us Brixton people that have been here for years ( that's cool!) but more importantly DOES NOT EMPLOY ANY BLACK PEOPLE! Not cool.


 
It's also bollocks.



> So, as much as LJ has pi**ed people of for having the audacity to state the very obvious, he went ahead and said it. Rather than shoot the messenger and ignore the message I suggest you all take a looooooong hard look at what's going down here. Black folks are being sidelined out of OUR town.


 
It's fuck-all to do with Mr. Jasper having "audacity", it's about Mr. Jasper *getting things wrong*, and since when has Brixton only been about Afro-Caribbeans? It's always been about loads of different communities - Spanish and Portugeuse; Afro-Caribbeans; West Africans; East-African Asians; South London whites. Frankly, fuck you with your divisive "OUR town" bollocks. The *real* problem has bugger all to do with race, and everything to do with class. You want to tackle the people sidelining blacks from Brixton? Tackle the developers and the council.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Right. Small biz dynamics?! Where the many small biz' u were involved part of your family or were you employed by other families? in I tell you what, you take a walk thru Atlaantic Rd and look at the shops- what they sell n how much they earn- and be honest with yourself. What do these men do for the local people of Brixton. Where is the problem with asking the question? I'm glad someone has finally stated the obvious. Asian traders grow very wealthy from Black support. Fact.


 
What use is looking in the shops, you Noddy? All you see if you look in the shops is the shop assistants, not the "back office" staff.


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## free spirit (Jul 21, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> [pogo mode]
> 
> That has been pointed out already.
> 
> [/pogo mode]


not by anyone pointing out that it's actual name indicates it is / was a town though, at least not on this thread.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I have, as a local who's been brought up around Brixton since birth for over 30 years, I've seen plenty of people from all backgrounds frequent "black" business' here.
> 
> You and LJ are both coming across yourselves as pretty spiteful and divisive racists, your agenda is very transparent.


 
I bet you (like me) can also remember the days when (here and elsewhere) black didn't just refer to "Afro-Caribbean", but to all "people of colour". eye doc seems to have forgotten the idea of political solidarity between oppressed parties.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

free spirit said:


> while VP's doing that, can I just take the opportunity to point out that Brixton has never been a village - the 'ton' bit means 'town', so for as long as it's been called brixton, it obviously hasn't been a village.


There's no "town" in 'Brixton'.


> By the eleventh century Brixton was known as Brixiestan, meaning 'at the stone of Brihtsige', and was recorded in the Domesday Book. Over the years the name was shortened to Brixton


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

eye doc said:


> I Never said I was Black! And I too live in Coldharbour Ward. If your default setting is seeing me as Black because I said 'our' town then it says so much about your attitudes to the Black people of Coldharbour Ward.IMHO. Moreover, in Guinness Trust estate , in Coldharbour Ward, I hear the landlords evicted 400 black people- rent payers, not squatters- and are now filling the vacant properties with white people? Have you heard about this?


 
You seem to hear a lot, but you should try and filter out the bollocks from the reality. Guinness Trust manipulated so that they got rid of short-stay tenants, black, white and brown, and are filling the properties with people who can afford a so-called "market rent". It's to do with class and the ability to pay, not with race.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's to do with class and the ability to pay, not with race.


Spot on.


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## Ozone (Jul 21, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's to do with class and the ability to pay, not with race.


 
I think this is also part of the mistake that Mr Japser made.
When he read the word "blackmail", he perhaps chose to see the words "black male", instead of focusing on more important issues.
He forgot (or perhaps doesn't realise) that a sum of money doesn't have the same value to everyone, perhaps £100 to him is small change...it's easy money, whereas to some shop owners, it is next week's stock, or the water and electricty that needs paying.
It is great to have enthusiasm and to believe in a cause, but it is also far more important to be able to truly understand and relate to the people you are trying to persuade to join your cause....and at their level, not yours.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> The same reason you're playing advocate for Mr. Jasper, perhaps?



I am? Or is it I don't like online lynching when someone is clearly prepared to engage?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I am? Or is it I don't like online lynching when someone is clearly prepared to engage?


"Online lynching"?   

Get some perspective, ffs.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I am? Or is it I don't like online lynching when someone is clearly prepared to engage?


 
Read through your own posts, and the posts you replied to. Do it with a detached eye, and then tell me what you were doing. I'd say you were already "advocating" prior to any "online lynching" (it's garf ffs!) taking place.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Read through your own posts, and the posts you replied to. Do it with a detached eye, and then tell me what you were doing. I'd say you were already "advocating" prior to any "online lynching" (it's garf ffs!) taking place.



I'm sorry but you're wrong, I can't stand how people claim to want to engage then throw the opportunity when it's right in front of them. 

The thing I advocate for is a fair hearing. Other people clearly are more interested in using this place as a platform to push an agenda rather than serve the interests of the local community.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The thing I advocate for is a fair hearing.


And that's _exactly_ what Jasper got here. And lots of excellent advice and useful insights from locals and traders too*

(*with one or two bonkers exceptions, obvs)


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm sorry but you're wrong, I can't stand how people claim to want to engage then throw the opportunity when it's right in front of them.


 
Who did that? The majority of posters may have been snippy, but they engaged with him nonetheless. Only a couple just attacked him, which is pretty much par the course at any venue (real or virtual) where Mr. Jasper appears.



> The thing I advocate for is a fair hearing. Other people clearly are more interested in using this place as a platform to push an agenda rather than serve the interests of the local community.


 
And that wasn't what Mr. Jasper was doing? It certainly seemed as though he was, and he had as fair a hearing as he'd be likely to get in any other non-moderated forum.


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## Maggot (Jul 21, 2012)

eye doc said:


> Hey! Am i imagining things or did my post disappear.?


You need to go to an opticians, eye doc!


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## Rushy (Jul 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm sorry but you're wrong, I can't stand how people claim to want to engage then throw the opportunity when it's right in front of them.
> 
> The thing I advocate for is a fair hearing. Other people clearly are more interested in using this place as a platform to push an agenda rather than serve the interests of the local community.


 
If LJ had come onto the forum and wanted to debate whether businesses are contributing enough to the community he could have done so. Instead, he turned it into a personal vendetta against particular named businesses by which he felt snubbed, accusing them of letting down the community, without making any effort whatsoever to establish the ways in which those businesses might already interact with the community. His knowledge and research was so lacking that he even referred by name to one business which had been established on our high street for almost 20yrs as one of the new incomers.

In deciding whether to name and shame, the only reference point he used was whether the business stumped up cash for a party at his demand. And on that basis he called for them to be boycotted. That's what people objected to so strongly.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2012)

Rushy said:


> If LJ had come onto the forum and wanted to debate whether businesses are contributing enough to the community he could have done so. Instead, he turned it into a personal vendetta against particular named businesses by which he felt snubbed, accusing them of letting down the community, without making any effort whatsoever to establish the ways in which those businesses might already interact with the community. His knowledge and research was so lacking that he even referred by name to one business which had been established on our high street for almost 20yrs as one of the new incomers.
> 
> In deciding whether to name and shame, the only reference point he used was whether the business stumped up cash for a party at his demand. And on that basis he called for them to be boycotted. That's what people objected to so strongly.



So meeting fire with fire keeps everything cool? Just LJ acted in a way you didn't like doesn't justify you acting in that way...


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## Rushy (Jul 21, 2012)

Sorry if you though something I said was unfair and/or unreasonable. I felt very strongly that LJ was being recklessly destructive and and stood up to it directly and clearly. You seem to be more comfortable chipping in with slightly vague and veiled accusations from the sidelines after it's all over and that's fine too if that's what works for you.


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## brixton bwoy (Jul 22, 2012)

I was told about this internet argument that was going on re Brixton Splash so curiosity brought me here. Maaaaan, this is deeeep. The whole argument is mad. The way this Jasper man spoke about the naming and shaming was loose talk! But the way many of the cats came back at him...gettin all personal and twisted had me really really worried for the future. i thought this was a website for progressive / alternative folk who have a thing to say. But some of the comments made me just shake my head. I cant believe that 'progressive' pplz would roll on one person like this for saying what he said and the way the attacks - or whatever u call em- came at people who raised valid points re the situation black people face in brixton was crazy deep. The rapid change in brixtons racial dynamic is plain to see...but many of you just want to beat up on class and ignore race. Is it any wonder black men end up in mental homes??? If you represent the progressive open minded crew- i'm talking about a posse of internet trolls who snipe at stuff and ignore facts ...makes me think you guys just dont geddit? i guess trying to tell you about the racism we blacks have to deal with is like banging my head against a wall. You guys really are deep. Racist anti-racists who refuse to recognise there is ethnic tension in brixton...one of the famous black communities in the world. And b4 you start on me...I'M BLACK, I LIVE IN BRIXTON, HAVE DONE 4 LONGER THAN PROBABLY ALL U WHO BLOG AWAY ON THIS SITE...AND I'M SSHOCKED AT THE WAY YOU TORE DOWN THIS JASPERMAN...if you represent the progressive/ liberal arm of of society then i can honestly say- hand on heart- BLACK PPPL ARE FINISHED IN BRIXTON...and no one gives a shit.  Malcolm said 50 years ago' Black ppl cannot trust liberal whites! u guys proved it...later!


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## editor (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:
			
		

> I'M BLACK, I LIVE IN BRIXTON, HAVE DONE 4 LONGER THAN PROBABLY ALL U WHO BLOG AWAY ON THIS SITE!


Why do you assume that?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> I was told about this internet argument that was going on re Brixton Splash so curiosity brought me here. Maaaaan, this is deeeep. The whole argument is mad. The way this Jasper man spoke about the naming and shaming was loose talk! But the way many of the cats came back at him...gettin all personal and twisted had me really really worried for the future. i thought this was a website for progressive / alternative folk who have a thing to say. But some of the comments made me just shake my head. I cant believe that 'progressive' pplz would roll on one person like this for saying what he said and the way the attacks - or whatever u call em- came at people who raised valid points re the situation black people face in brixton was crazy deep. The rapid change in brixtons racial dynamic is plain to see...but many of you just want to beat up on class and ignore race. Is it any wonder black men end up in mental homes??? If you represent the progressive open minded crew- i'm talking about a posse of internet trolls who snipe at stuff and ignore facts ...makes me think you guys just dont geddit? i guess trying to tell you about the racism we blacks have to deal with is like banging my head against a wall. You guys really are deep. Racist anti-racists who refuse to recognise there is ethnic tension in brixton...one of the famous black communities in the world. And b4 you start on me...I'M BLACK, I LIVE IN BRIXTON, HAVE DONE 4 LONGER THAN PROBABLY ALL U WHO BLOG AWAY ON THIS SITE...AND I'M SSHOCKED AT THE WAY YOU TORE DOWN THIS JASPERMAN...if you represent the progressive/ liberal arm of of society then i can honestly say- hand on heart- BLACK PPPL ARE FINISHED IN BRIXTON...and no one gives a shit. Malcolm said 50 years ago' Black ppl cannot trust liberal whites! u guys proved it...later!


 
and why do you think everyone on this site is white?


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## Kanda (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> I was told about this internet argument that was going on re Brixton Splash so curiosity brought me here


 
Who told you about it? Lee Jasper?


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## brixton bwoy (Jul 22, 2012)

editor said:


> Why do you assume that?


I tell you why? Because I used to go to Ritzy when it had only one screen and showed late night kung fu films! Was you dere? I remember when the Dogbar was Thhe Atlantic Pub and was filled with Black ppl! Do you? The Voice Newspaper was based in the spot which is now called the Viaduct on Coldharbour Lane... The Fridge - or whatever its called now- was originally opposite the Police station! Did u go there? Sir Coxsone used to play his sound in Angell Park and thousands of youts would come out to Jam. Btw Angell Park is now called Max Roach Park. My family owned a gambling house on Mayall Road...b4 it got chopped in Bob Marley and Marcus Garvey Way...I could go on and on and on. Was you there ? I remember when Barrier block was a building site and ppl though they was building a PRISON! Dont test! Belive dat. When did u arrive here??? honestly.


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## Kanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Lets not this get into a 'who's lived here longer than each other' and stick to the subject?

Cos, willy waving ain't helping no one


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## brixton bwoy (Jul 22, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> and why do you think everyone on this site is white?


Cos of the shit a lot of write? I dont know Black ppl who mess with this site. None of my ppl do! And if it was Black ppl that wuz posting that shit, then we madder than wot i wud ever believe.


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## brixton bwoy (Jul 22, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Who told you about it? Lee Jasper?


Nah! A white friend told me to take a look at the debate. She old school . Said I'd find the new brixton there. Lol!


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## brixton bwoy (Jul 22, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Lets not this get into a 'who's lived here longer than each other' and stick to the subject?
> 
> Cos, willy waving ain't helping no one


Your just pissed cos the editor asked the question and i answered it. Dropped jewels. And cos you know that I'm deep in this thing, going waaaay back to a time when you was probably chasing sheep in a field in Devon or some shit like that, man like me was on the frontline- hustling annd making Brixton famous. Why did your editor feel qualified to even go there with me??? When did he/she become qualified to test bigmen and talk on Brick City?!


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## Kanda (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> Nah! A white friend told me to take a look at the debate. She old school . Said I'd find the new brixton there. Lol!


 
New Brixton is just past the arches on Coldharbour Lane... not here pal


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## Kanda (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> Your just pissed cos the editor asked the question and i answered it. Dropped jewels. And cos you know that I'm deep in this thing, going waaaay back to a time when you was probably chasing sheep in a field in Devon or some shit like that, man like me was on the frontline- hustling annd making Brixton famous. Why did your editor feel qualified to even go there with me??? When did he/she become qualified to test bigmen and talk on Brick City?!


 
I'm not pissed at all. I'm amused.


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## brixton bwoy (Jul 22, 2012)

Kanda said:


> New Brixton is just past the arches on Coldharbour Lane... not here pal


Your a fish! And you definitely out of water. And we aint pals.


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## brixton bwoy (Jul 22, 2012)

Kanda said:


> I'm not pissed at all. I'm amused.


Of course. How many months you been here? Lol!


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## Kanda (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> Of course. How many months you been here? Lol!



7 years


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## RaverDrew (Jul 22, 2012)

Kanda fuck off when you dun kno what you talk of... please


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## bmd (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> I was told about this internet argument that was going on re Brixton Splash so curiosity brought me here. Maaaaan, this is deeeep. The whole argument is mad. The way this Jasper man spoke about the naming and shaming was loose talk! But the way many of the cats came back at him...gettin all personal and twisted had me really really worried for the future. i thought this was a website for progressive / alternative folk who have a thing to say. But some of the comments made me just shake my head. I cant believe that 'progressive' pplz would roll on one person like this for saying what he said and the way the attacks - or whatever u call em- came at people who raised valid points re the situation black people face in brixton was crazy deep. The rapid change in brixtons racial dynamic is plain to see...but many of you just want to beat up on class and ignore race. Is it any wonder black men end up in mental homes??? If you represent the progressive open minded crew- i'm talking about a posse of internet trolls who snipe at stuff and ignore facts ...makes me think you guys just dont geddit? i guess trying to tell you about the racism we blacks have to deal with is like banging my head against a wall. You guys really are deep. Racist anti-racists who refuse to recognise there is ethnic tension in brixton...one of the famous black communities in the world. And b4 you start on me...I'M BLACK, I LIVE IN BRIXTON, HAVE DONE 4 LONGER THAN PROBABLY ALL U WHO BLOG AWAY ON THIS SITE...AND I'M SSHOCKED AT THE WAY YOU TORE DOWN THIS JASPERMAN...if you represent the progressive/ liberal arm of of society then i can honestly say- hand on heart- BLACK PPPL ARE FINISHED IN BRIXTON...and no one gives a shit. Malcolm said 50 years ago' Black ppl cannot trust liberal whites! u guys proved it...later!


 
By posting on this site you're part of it. You're one of the progressive people now. You can try to change the attitudes that you disagree with by being a part of this. 

What, specifically, do you disagree with that has been said here?


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## Rushy (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> I tell you why? Because I used to go to Ritzy when it had only one screen and showed late night kung fu films! Was you dere? I remember when the Dogbar was Thhe Atlantic Pub and was filled with Black ppl! Do you? The Voice Newspaper was based in the spot which is now called the Viaduct on Coldharbour Lane... The Fridge - or whatever its called now- was originally opposite the Police station! Did u go there? Sir Coxsone used to play his sound in Angell Park and thousands of youts would come out to Jam. Btw Angell Park is now called Max Roach Park. My family owned a gambling house on Mayall Road...b4 it got chopped in Bob Marley and Marcus Garvey Way...I could go on and on and on. Was you there ? I remember when Barrier block was a building site and ppl though they was building a PRISON! Dont test! Belive dat. When did u arrive here??? honestly.


 
1960s : What's the world coming to Marjory? These blacks just keep on turning up and acting like they own the place.They're taking over, I tell you. I've lived here all my life and I'm just not going to put up with it. Don't they know this is Brixton - not bloody Kingston?

2012 : What's the world coming to Winston? These whites just keep on turning up and acting like they own the place.They're taking over, I tell you. I've lived here all my life and I'm just not going to put up with it. Don't they know this is Brixton - not bloody Clapham?

Mocking posters for not being progressive enough whilst peddling the "I've lived here longer than you, so I must know best" rule sounds a bit naive.


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## Gramsci (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> I was told about this internet argument that was going on re Brixton Splash so curiosity brought me here. Maaaaan, this is deeeep. The whole argument is mad. The way this Jasper man spoke about the naming and shaming was loose talk! But the way many of the cats came back at him...gettin all personal and twisted had me really really worried for the future. i thought this was a website for progressive / alternative folk who have a thing to say. But some of the comments made me just shake my head. I cant believe that 'progressive' pplz would roll on one person like this for saying what he said and the way the attacks - or whatever u call em- came at people who raised valid points re the situation black people face in brixton was crazy deep. The rapid change in brixtons racial dynamic is plain to see...but many of you just want to beat up on class and ignore race. Is it any wonder black men end up in mental homes??? If you represent the progressive open minded crew- i'm talking about a posse of internet trolls who snipe at stuff and ignore facts ...makes me think you guys just dont geddit? i guess trying to tell you about the racism we blacks have to deal with is like banging my head against a wall. You guys really are deep. Racist anti-racists who refuse to recognise there is ethnic tension in brixton...one of the famous black communities in the world. And b4 you start on me...I'M BLACK, I LIVE IN BRIXTON, HAVE DONE 4 LONGER THAN PROBABLY ALL U WHO BLOG AWAY ON THIS SITE...AND I'M SSHOCKED AT THE WAY YOU TORE DOWN THIS JASPERMAN...if you represent the progressive/ liberal arm of of society then i can honestly say- hand on heart- BLACK PPPL ARE FINISHED IN BRIXTON...and no one gives a shit. Malcolm said 50 years ago' Black ppl cannot trust liberal whites! u guys proved it...later!


 
Really? I have lived in Brixton since 81.

I gave my views on these issues in post #151 on this thread.

I said yesterday on the other thread that race and class are inter related. Copied from my post from the Lee Jasper resigns thread below (post #29 on that thread)

The other unfortunate thing about his resignation is that some of the issues he was highlighting were correct. I would say they were issues of inequality and class rather than race on its own. ( as Violent Panda has pointed out). Though I would say they are inter related.​​He is correct in saying that rising unemployment affects Black people more. But it is Race and Class not just race issue. Its unfortunate imo that his actions have meant any meaningful discussion on these important issues have been sidelined.​​"We have massive youth unemployment particularly among black youth we need to encourage and support more of the local community to consider starting up their own business. We have serious issues with youth violence and post the August 2011 disturbances relations with the police remained strained.​We endure rising levels of unemployment that disproportionately impacts local black young people and women. We also have increasing number of elderly living in alone in poverty and isolation.​Homelessness is a huge problem in addition to a significant and I fear growing mental health crisis all of which is seriously exacerbated by huge cuts to public sector spending"​​http://www.brixtonblog.com/comment-...ure-they-are-not-simply-absent-landlords/5790​​Also see this Guardian article on Black youth unemployment:​​http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/mar/09/half-uk-young-black-men-unemployed​


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## Gramsci (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> But some of the comments made me just shake my head. I cant believe that 'progressive' pplz would roll on one person like this for saying what he said and the way the attacks - or whatever u call em- came at people who raised valid points re the situation black people face in brixton was crazy deep. The rapid change in brixtons racial dynamic is plain to see...but many of you just want to beat up on class and ignore race.!


 
I also suggest you look at some of the other older threads here on Brickbox and Ritzy take over of Windrush sq for example. And the numerous "gentrification" threads as well.

Some of the posters on this thread disagree on other issues. It was Jaspers "naming and shaming", which now appears not to have been agreed by Splash board, which united posters here in opposition to it. 

Its not often I see here posters generally agreeing with each other.


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## Gramsci (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> . Racist anti-racists who refuse to recognise there is ethnic tension in brixton.!


 
As I have said before Brixton is a community of communities. It also says that on Splash home page.

"The event is aimed at celebrating the area’s diversity, its progress through the years and the fusion of the numerous ethnic groups that now call Brixton home. It is a celebration of peaceful relations, vibrant living in Brixton and Brixton’s contribution to the wider London culture."

http://www.brixtonsplash.org/

That does not mean that everyone gets on all the time. Of course there can be tensions between different communities at times. Most of the time people get on. I thought the point of Splash was to present Brixton in a more positive light. (See quote above).

I did not see Lee Jaspers "naming and shaming" as contributing to "peaceful relations".


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## Blagsta (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> I was told about this internet argument that was going on re Brixton Splash so curiosity brought me here. Maaaaan, this is deeeep. The whole argument is mad. The way this Jasper man spoke about the naming and shaming was loose talk! But the way many of the cats came back at him...gettin all personal and twisted had me really really worried for the future. i thought this was a website for progressive / alternative folk who have a thing to say. But some of the comments made me just shake my head. I cant believe that 'progressive' pplz would roll on one person like this for saying what he said and the way the attacks - or whatever u call em- came at people who raised valid points re the situation black people face in brixton was crazy deep. The rapid change in brixtons racial dynamic is plain to see...but many of you just want to beat up on class and ignore race. Is it any wonder black men end up in mental homes??? If you represent the progressive open minded crew- i'm talking about a posse of internet trolls who snipe at stuff and ignore facts ...makes me think you guys just dont geddit? i guess trying to tell you about the racism we blacks have to deal with is like banging my head against a wall. You guys really are deep. Racist anti-racists who refuse to recognise there is ethnic tension in brixton...one of the famous black communities in the world. And b4 you start on me...I'M BLACK, I LIVE IN BRIXTON, HAVE DONE 4 LONGER THAN PROBABLY ALL U WHO BLOG AWAY ON THIS SITE...AND I'M SSHOCKED AT THE WAY YOU TORE DOWN THIS JASPERMAN...if you represent the progressive/ liberal arm of of society then i can honestly say- hand on heart- BLACK PPPL ARE FINISHED IN BRIXTON...and no one gives a shit.  Malcolm said 50 years ago' Black ppl cannot trust liberal whites! u guys proved it...later!


What a load of racist old bollocks.


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## editor (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton_bwoy banned as it was a second log in for eye doc. Any more messing about like that and eye_doc will also be banned.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

brixton bwoy said:


> I tell you why? Because I used to go to Ritzy when it had only one screen and showed late night kung fu films! Was you dere?


 
Yes, I was there. I first saw "Drunken Master" at the Ritzy. 1979, I think.



> I remember when the Dogbar was Thhe Atlantic Pub and was filled with Black ppl! Do you?


[

Yes, loads of people do.



> The Voice Newspaper was based in the spot which is now called the Viaduct on Coldharbour Lane...


 
Back when it was a halfway decent paper.



> The Fridge - or whatever its called now- was originally opposite the Police station! Did u go there?


 
Not me, hate nightclubs.



> Sir Coxsone used to play his sound in Angell Park and thousands of youts would come out to Jam. Btw Angell Park is now called Max Roach Park. My family owned a gambling house on Mayall Road...b4 it got chopped in Bob Marley and Marcus Garvey Way...I could go on and on and on.


 
You *are* "going on and on", believe me.



> Was you there ? I remember when Barrier block was a building site and ppl though they was building a PRISON! Dont test! Belive dat. When did u arrive here??? honestly.


 
Writing in vernacular doesn't give you added credibility. Who are you trying to convince?


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

editor said:


> brixton_bwoy banned as it was a second log in for eye doc. Any more messing about like that and eye_doc will also be banned.


 
Ah. Typical.


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## claphamboy (Jul 22, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ah. Typical.


 
Still playing catch-up?


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 22, 2012)

Your response times would slow down at that age too


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 23, 2012)

editor said:


> brixton_bwoy banned as it was a second log in for eye doc. Any more messing about like that and eye_doc will also be banned.


I thought eye doc was "not black"
I've been had :'(


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