# I am getting some serious housing benefit bullshit from private landlords.



## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

First they would let me have the house if I wanted it, but I had to pay extra fees to get my mum checked as a guarantor on the grounds that 'because HB is paid directly to you, the landlord has to trust you to pay your rent'. Firstly, wrong, if it helps secure a tenency rent can be paid direct to landlord. Secondly, as opposed to the wages of someone with a job, that are paid directly to them and the landlord has to trust that they will pay their rent from it 

Then I get lots of 'oh yeah when would you like to view it????' but as soon as I mention HB suddenly the keys are mysteriously unavailable.

And today there was this corker. 'If you are claiming your HB fraudulently, and the council find out, its not you that's liable to pay it back, its your landlord so they might loose months and months of rent paying it back to the council'. Have run the council to check. She seemed a bit WTF?!!?! but is checking because she didn't know off the top of her head. I can only see that being true if the landlord was in some way complicit in your fraud.

FOR FUCKS SAKE!!

Oh, does anyone have any advice on how I can allow these bastards to help me find somewhere to live?  The chances of a LA house are next to nothing.


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

It's _total_ bullshit. The only reason the landlord would be liable for paying back an overpayment would be if the council was paying HB directly to them, which they won't do anymore unless you're a junkie or some other reason that is likely to prevent you from paying your rent on time.


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## Greebo (Apr 17, 2012)

What weepiper said.

Ask CAB or Shelter if you get any more grief?


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

http://www.lancaster.gov.uk/benefits/overpayments/

this makes it clear - '
*How will I know if I have been overpaid housing benefit?*

We will write to you with full details, for example:

*The reason for the overpayment*
*The amount of the overpayment*
*What period the overpayment relates to*
*Whether the overpayment will be recovered, and if so, how*
*What to do if you disagree with the overpayment*
We will also send *you* an invoice for repayment of the overpayment.
If your landlord received housing benefit payments on your behalf, we may ask him/her to repay the overpayment.'


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

weepiper said:


> http://www.lancaster.gov.uk/benefits/overpayments/
> 
> this makes it clear - '
> *How will I know if I have been overpaid housing benefit?*
> ...


 
I know, although Lancaster isn't my local authority but I can't see them all being wildly different.  I'm going into the housing support office tomorrow to see what they can do to help me.  Then I'm going to start being very, very difficult towards letting agents and landlords.  I'm sure there's a discrimination case of some kind in here somewhere but I can't for the life of me untangle all the bollocks to work out what it is.


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

No, I found loads of different council pages with basically the same information, Lancaster was just the nearest one to you 

It is total discrimination you're right. You could give Shelter a ring too to see what they have to say about it?


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## mr steev (Apr 17, 2012)

weepiper said:


> http://www.lancaster.gov.uk/benefits/overpayments/
> 
> this makes it clear - '
> *How will I know if I have been overpaid housing benefit?*
> ...


 
That's not how it worked for me.
My experience was to receive a random letter from the DWP saying I owed them £53. I rang them and asked what it was for and they said it was an overpayment of housing benefit from a property I lived in 9 years ago!
Because it has been so long ago I have no way of proving whether they are wrong or not. It takes the piss. It's not like I've been hiding or anything (always been on electoral role etc) so I don't understand why it's taken them so long to get in touch.   I've not paid it


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

Right, the thing is, a landlord can let their property to whoever they want.  They can say no because they think you've got a silly haircut and there's nothing you can do.  Its only discrimination if it can be proved that it is on grounds of race, religion, gender, sexuality etc etc.  Well I don't think 'being on benefits' is a category in that case.  However, presumably if a high enough proportion of people being in that situation due to being on benefits were women and women with children there might be a case of indirect discrimination.  But I don't know how to find out if that is the case, or how many people claiming HB are women, or who your case would be against?  Obviously if it was one particular landlord doing it but I don't even know if I particularly want to live in any of those houses, I just want to make an enquiry about them and maybe have a look.  I wonder if a case would be against the government for not giving enough protection in the law to people needing to live in rental properties?  But I only have a vague understanding of how all that works.  I want to bollock someone!


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

mr steev said:


> That's not how it worked for me.
> My experience was to receive a random letter from the DWP saying I owed them £53. I rang them and asked what it was for and they said it was an overpayment of housing benefit from a property I lived in 9 years ago!
> Because it has been so long ago I have no way of proving whether they are wrong or not. It takes the piss. It's not like I've been hiding or anything (always been on electoral role etc) so I don't understand why it's taken them so long to get in touch.  I've not paid it


 
Okay, not sure how that applies to the topic in this thread but yes, the benefits system can be shit and often makes ridiculous mistakes.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

Also, should I write to MP about this, or to a local councillor? Or both?


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 17, 2012)

Broadly speaking, the housing benefit rules are national (in England at least) - there are a very very few areas where councils are allowed discretion, and from memory, this sounds right if HB is paid direct to landlord.

I am fairly sure that if HB is paid to you, then the council can't chase the landlord if an overpayment does arise.

And as far as I know, discrimination on the grounds of being on benefits / having sod all money is still legal.

 

That having been said, some local councils do have details of landlords that are prepared to accept tenants on housing benefit, and in some areas, there is a scheme to assist people who can't scrape together the huge deposits that most private landlords have. I'd suggest a look at your council's website - this (Canterbury) was about the first one that a search engine found - such schemes are at the discretion of the council in question, not all of them do it, and the criteria for qualifying will vary from one council to another.

You may do better looking for a landlord who deals direct with tenants rather than via a letting agency. Letting agencies are almost universally shits, but the staff are going to follow whatever crappy procedures they have been told to follow. landlords vary. Some are halfway reasonable, some are utter shits.

  again

ETA - probably stating the bleeding obvious, but I have seen adverts from some company that styles itself an "agency" that "helps" people on benefits get tenancies.  The advert doesn't say specifically that they are a government / council agency, but it sort of hints at this.  Needless to say it's bollocks, and the fact they use the most expensive sort of premium rate telephone number for prospective tenants to ring gives me the urge to firebomb the bastards*.

* - legal note - in a figurative sense, of course.


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

http://www.womensincomenetwork.org/B Shelter Briefing October 2010.htm

this has some good figures on relative numbers of female claimants...


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## mr steev (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> Okay, not sure how that applies to the topic in this thread but yes, the benefits system can be shit and often makes ridiculous mistakes.


 
Because that's what happened to me when I was overpaid. Through fraud or not, the landlord is not involved (obviously it would be different if the landlord was involved in the deception)


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 17, 2012)

real reason for those speeches is that as a HB recipient you are obviously scum and will start a dirty protest the second after you've broken something in the property and the landlord cannot get it fixed within 5 seconds, culture of entitlement etc etc blah blah blah
oh, and there is a cap on maximum HB for a given property, something which does not happen with the "free" market.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Broadly speaking, the housing benefit rules are national (in England at least) - there are a very very few areas where councils are allowed discretion, and from memory, this sounds right if HB is paid direct to landlord.
> 
> I am fairly sure that if HB is paid to you, then the council can't chase the landlord if an overpayment does arise.
> 
> ...


 
I'm going to see the housing welfare peeps tomorrow.  Currently she has ONE property in preston where a landlord would be interested in taking a HB tenant.  its quite far away from the kids school (but not unreasonably so) and is a 3 bed property so if I took it, the onus would be on me to make up the £70 difference each month (which I would happily do, if the house was nice enough, but I'd rather have a choice of more than ONE).

I am wary of private landlords who do not use letting agencies as when we got a flat this way he was a lunatic and used to do all sorts of illegal things like come into the flat when we weren't there without asking or letting us know, had mental arrangements for the electric and gas meters and it turned out that there were live wires in our meter cupboard etc.

I have a garuntor, I have a deposit and first months rent, I could prob stretch to 2 months rent if it took that long for HB to come through.  I've got totally clean credit record and very minimal outgoings.  I am in no way suggesting that a landlord should consider me without some kind of back up that I will actually pay my rent one way or another.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> real reason for those speeches is that as a HB recipient you are obviously scum and will start a dirty protest the second after you've broken something in the property and the landlord cannot get it fixed within 5 seconds, culture of entitlement etc etc blah blah blah
> oh, and there is a cap on maximum HB for a given property, something which does not happen with the "free" market.


 
I am entitled to £480 HB per month.  If I go to a house where the rent is more than that, I have to make up the difference myself.  If I didn't pay it for whatever reason, the landlord has exactly the same recourse to take me to small claims to recover it than if it were someone with a wage not paying their rent, or not paying the full amount.


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 17, 2012)

mr steev said:


> My experience was to receive a random letter from the DWP saying I owed them £53. I rang them and asked what it was for and they said it was an overpayment of housing benefit from a property I lived in 9 years ago!
> 
> Because it has been so long ago I have no way of proving whether they are wrong or not. It takes the piss. It's not like I've been hiding or anything (always been on electoral role etc) so I don't understand why it's taken them so long to get in touch.  I've not paid it


 
In general, I thought any debt had to be pursued within X amount of time or they couldn't do anything.

I'm not sure whether benefits are different - and since they can probably deduct it from any future benefits.

I'd be inclined to challenge it, and ask them to prove it (rather than just say "it's because our computer says so")



radio_atomica said:


> Also, should I write to MP about this, or to a local councillor? Or both?


 
you could try both - if it's a tory MP they won't give a shit, if it's a labour MP they may not, and even if they did, there's sod all they can do about it.

Local councillors have no power to change the national housing benefit rules, they might just have the inclination to try and get more help locally for private tenants in finding tenancies.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

weepiper said:


> http://www.womensincomenetwork.org/B Shelter Briefing October 2010.htm
> 
> this has some good figures on relative numbers of female claimants...


 
Fab!  Thank you!  I need to like, talk to a person about this now.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> you could try both - if it's a tory MP they won't give a shit, if it's a labour MP they may not, and even if they did, there's sod all they can do about it.
> 
> Local councillors have no power to change the national housing benefit rules, they might just have the inclination to try and get more help locally for private tenants in finding tenancies.


 
He's labour but he's a bit of an arse.  However, if it makes him look good, he might be interested.  There's not really sod all he can do about it though, couldn't he put in a private member's bill to raise the issue of lack of regulation in the private rental industry or something?  I know that its a slow and largely ineffective way of doing things, but if you don't follow every possibly route, its fair enough if people go 'well stop complaining about it and DO something will you'?


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> Fab! Thank you! I need to like, talk to a person about this now.


 
yep - the most recent update on the main website that page is from appears to be November 2011 but it could be worth firing them an email at least to ask if they can direct you on to someone else.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

I think there is a case for indirect sexual discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. However, I don't know who to talk to about it?

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla...iscrimination.htm#indirect_sex_discrimination


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

and this bit: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla...crimination.htm#sex_discrimination_in_housing


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> I am entitled to £480 HB per month. If I go to a house where the rent is more than that, I have to make up the difference myself. If I didn't pay it for whatever reason, the landlord has exactly the same recourse to take me to small claims to recover it than if it were someone with a wage not paying their rent, or not paying the full amount.


I know that, it won't stop some landlord assuming that if you receive HB then you are scum though*.

*= at least it's the impression I get from the letting agents who actually advertise prominently that they do take people on HB.


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> I think there is a case for indirect sexual discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. However, I don't know who to talk to about it?
> 
> http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla...iscrimination.htm#indirect_sex_discrimination


 
Equality and Human Rights Commission in the first instance, to see what they think? I think it counts as discrimination which is widespread and affects a lot of women, not just you, iyswim.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 17, 2012)

<shakes angry fist>


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## purenarcotic (Apr 17, 2012)

What a piss take.  Get angry, r_a.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Equality and Human Rights Commission in the first instance, to see what they think? I think it counts as discrimination which is widespread and affects a lot of women, not just you, iyswim.


 
I know, that was my first thought.  For the ones that would let to me but require a garuntour that would be less favourable terms, and the ones who don't let to HB at all, its being refused a service.  As I say, you couldn't do it because someone was black.  It all comes down to the numbers though, its not direct discrimination, its indirect, and that requires proof that refusal on the grounds of HB would affect proportionally more women than men.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Equality and Human Rights Commission in the first instance, to see what they think? I think it counts as discrimination which is widespread and affects a lot of women, not just you, iyswim.


 
Thing is, if it were possible to affect a change in the law, or the behaviour of landlords and lettings agencies on that basis, it would benefit men and couples as well, because they then couldn't be MORE favourable to women on HB but carry on being shitty to men.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

then again, I can't really believe that I've come up with a thought process that nobody else has had before.  I'm just waiting for the bad news


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> I know, that was my first thought. For the ones that would let to me but require a garuntour that would be less favourable terms, and the ones who don't let to HB at all, its being refused a service. As I say, you couldn't do it because someone was black. It all comes down to the numbers though, its not direct discrimination, its indirect, and that requires proof that refusal on the grounds of HB would affect proportionally more women than men.


 
yep well the figures quoted in that women's income network link say only 25% of HB claimants are single men, 22% couples and the rest (53%) are single women so surely that is fairly damning? I'd like to find the original report those figures come from though.

edit, aha! DWP's own report, page 13.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

I had a root around on the office for national statistics website the other week but it was like trying to find a needle in a haystack.  A massive proportion of them are lone parents as well so that might stand for something, discriminating because of caring responsibilities.  I'm not claiming benefits because I can't or won't find a job, I'm _entitled_ to benefits because I have young children.


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> I had a root around on the office for national statistics website the other week but it was like trying to find a needle in a haystack. A massive proportion of them are lone parents as well so that might stand for something, discriminating because of caring responsibilities. I'm not claiming benefits because I can't or won't find a job, I'm _entitled_ to benefits because I have young children.


 
I edited  also this from the LSE is useful too


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

I am getting right angried-up about this myself now actually.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

my poor boy is getting neglected while i attempt to research case law on the internet  I'll get my text books out tonight and see how to do it properly later on.  Surely there must have been cases before?


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

weepiper said:


> I am getting right angried-up about this myself now actually.


 
Good, you should be, the state of affairs is despicable.  Would you like to start a lone parent's angry network with me?


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

Good fight that I think you should pursue if you have the energy, but you can get housing in the meantime by just not telling them you are on HB. There's no legal reason you have to, AFAIK.


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> Good, you should be, the state of affairs is despicable. Would you like to start a lone parent's angry network with me?


 
I've long been angry about the way mothers instantly lose status/importance/stability/long-term financial security the second they are no longer 'being supported' by a man (that is, the couple splits up). That reminds me though, could be also worth having a look at the Gingerbread site to see if they've anything to say (I had a quick look but don't have time to dig properly right now, will look again this evening)


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

Another side to this that a friend of mine mentioned on fb is that a lot of landlords are reluctant to let to HB because their details would be on the local authority system then, and he reckons that probably has something to do with them not really wanting the govt. to know what rental income they are making...


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

ymu said:


> Good fight that I think you should pursue if you have the energy, but you can get housing in the meantime by just not telling them you are on HB. There's no legal reason you have to, AFAIK.


 
Letting agencies won't let to you unless you can prove income, lots of them require a credit check or employers' details etc.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

ymu said:


> Good fight that I think you should pursue if you have the energy, but you can get housing in the meantime by just not telling them you are on HB. There's no legal reason you have to, AFAIK.


 
I don't know how I can _not_ tell them iswim? They want me to have a job, when I filled in the forms, I would have to say who my employer was so they could check I wasn't lying. And I don't have an employer to put down. So they would say, 'well where is the rent going to come from then?'

I am going to get a local paper on the way home later just to clarify in my own mind how 'easy' or hard it would be to find a house without using letting agents. E.g. are there any? can I afford them? Will they take DSS and kids?

e2a: I don't really have the time or the energy for bullshit like this, but I will certainly not just sit back once I find somewhere and let it go because 'I'm okay now'.  I can't not really, I was nearly crying and shaking with anger this morning when I was told out and out lies by a letting agent as to why their landlords to don't let to HB.  Mostly because I a) knew it was 99% an out and out untruth and b) because they say it in such a reasonable and helpful way you don't want to argue without getting the facts first.


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

x-posted with you r_a, this was a response to weeps. Looks like they are even bigger shits these days. 

Some landlords prefer people on HB. I'll see if I can dig out the article I remember on why. If you can find somewhere that is within the LHA so there is no top up required, you might be able to persuade them that you're a better bet right now, as your benefits are probably more secure than most incomes at the moment.

---

I remember the credit checks, but r_a is clean on that anyway. Is it one or t'other, or do they demand payslips and stuff now too? When I claimed it was paid to the landlord direct so there was no option, but I thought that was much less common now, and meant that you did not have to say anything about HB (as long as you're a good enough liar if asked). I'm going off 'what people say' and not 'what people have necessarily experienced in practice' though.

Not that I want to stop LPAN from budding, obv. That's a great idea, and taps into the discriminatory nature of the cuts beautifully.


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

ymu said:


> I remember the credit checks, but r_a is clean on that anyway. Is it one or t'other, or do they demand payslips and stuff now too? When I claimed it was paid to the landlord direct so there was no option, but I thought that was much less common now, and meant that you did not have to say anything about HB (as long as you're a good enough liar if asked). I'm going off 'what people say' and not 'what people have necessarily experienced in practice' though.
> 
> Not that I want to stop LPAN from budding, obv. That's a great idea, and taps into the discriminatory nature of the cuts beautifully.


 
The other thing that might be a stumbling block is that when I claimed I remember the council wanted a rather specific 'copy of the tenancy agreement' that meant I had to go back to my landlord and get him to add some further details to it before they would process my claim.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

They want payslips or they write to your employer to check that you really earn what you say you earn etc.  It's like applying for a mortgage really.

You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, if you tell them 'its fine, I am entited to housing benefit and can get the council to confirm that, so you can be sure you'll get their money' they say 'yeah but you might not pay it to us' and if you say 'right then i'll get the council to pay it direct to you if that's such a problem' they say 'no thanks, if you are overpaid, i'm liable'.


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

I still think all these people we are constantly reading about in the Daily Mail etc who manage to fraudulently claim HB for great big mansions in Westminster or whatever frankly deserve a round of applause and maybe a medal and a certificate, because look how hard it is for genuine claimants to actually _get_ a tenancy at all, never mind battle through the multiple layers of bureaucracy  required to get them to pay the rent.


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

You know that you won't get three beds for two kids under 10 whether or not they are the same sex? They have to be over 10 for boys and girls to get separate rooms.

It's actually quite tricky finding up to date landlord info at the moment, with all the changes. I can't find the article I was thinking of. You might find some useful landlord-perspective stuff on this site: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/housing_benefit.htm

They have a forum that might be worth checking out too. Find out how the bastards think.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

ymu said:


> You know that you won't get three beds for two kids under 10 whether or not they are the same sex? They have to be over 10 for boys and girls to get separate rooms.
> 
> It's actually quite tricky finding up to date landlord info at the moment, with all the changes. I can't find the article I was thinking of. You might find some useful landlord-perspective stuff on this site: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/housing_benefit.htm
> 
> They have a forum that might be worth checking out too. Find out how the bastards think.


 
I wouldn't get 3 beds in local authority housing.  With private lettings you can take whatever house you want, but you only get the Local Housing Allowance Rate for your entitled number of bedrooms.  So in central Lancs where I am, the LHA rate for 2 beds is £480.  That is the maximum amount of housing benefit I can claim.  However, I can move into a 2 bed property that costs more than that and make up the difference myself, or move into a 3 bed property that costs £480 a month and still get the full amount.


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## sheothebudworths (Apr 17, 2012)

Just quickly ra - cos I gotta go and pick my daughter up in a minute - I found my 'ethical landlord' *cough* (who specified that they would consider hb claimants - although I still needed a guarantor) on gumtree (as well as many more private lets, which didn't say one way or another but would generally be more open to the idea having met you etc, imo).
So you could try that - filter out letting agents and see what you're left with (obv being aware of any potential scams etc)?
ETA - rents were generally lower than with agents, too, so you may even find one within your lha rate.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

That link is really out of date, it doesn't mention LHA at all, and I'm pretty sure that's what replaced all that assessing whether the rent is suitable for the size of property and whether the size of property is suitable for the family stuff.


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## scifisam (Apr 17, 2012)

I think I remember a couple of people on here (kabbes was one) mentioning that landlords have to pay higher insurance premiums if they let to people on benefits, or that their insurance specifically bans them letting to unemployed people. If that's true (say kabbes three times and he will appear) then those insurance companies are guilty of indirect discrimination too.


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

Good point Sam! The insurance companies have just been told they can't charge men and women different rates for car and life insurance on the grounds of discrimination, so they surely can't get away with charging different rates for HB when 78% of claimants are women, 53% single women.

Think it was an EU ruling too, which makes the argument harder to dent if the same argument can be applied.



radio_atomica said:


> That link is really out of date, it doesn't mention LHA at all, and I'm pretty sure that's what replaced all that assessing whether the rent is suitable for the size of property and whether the size of property is suitable for the family stuff.


Yep. The forums are your best bet right now I'd think, with everything in so much flux - although there's loads of landlord sites out there and I have no idea which ones are any good for your purposes.

That link does have some useful 'tips for landlords' which might give you some insight into the kinds of things they worry about. You're in a good position to shoot down some of the common objections, I think.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

Some of the real reason is, I think, to do with stipulations from insurance and mortgage companies about who they can and can't let to.  But it stands to the same reason as everything else, it is still potentially indirect discrimination.

I had a look at the forums.  It seems to be 50% people on HB asking how to find a landlord who will take them and 50% people who are landlords but have no idea what they're doing, at all!


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## equationgirl (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> Another side to this that a friend of mine mentioned on fb is that a lot of landlords are reluctant to let to HB because their details would be on the local authority system then, and he reckons that probably has something to do with them not really wanting the govt. to know what rental income they are making...


I suppose that might be true for cash-in-hand rents, but in Scotland you have to be registered with the local authority in order to rent (kind of like 'official landlord' status'). It's illegal to rent if you're not registered with the local authority, regardless of whether you accept housing benefit claimants or not. I also have to declare any income I make on my tax return.

I think it's deplorable what you're going through r_a, disgraceful.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> I suppose that might be true for cash-in-hand rents, but in Scotland you have to be registered with the local authority in order to rent (kind of like 'official landlord' status'). It's illegal to rent if you're not registered with the local authority, regardless of whether you accept housing benefit claimants or not. I also have to declare any income I make on my tax return.
> 
> I think it's deplorable what you're going through r_a, disgraceful.


 
You don't have to register with anything afaik to rent your property in england.  I personally think that to do private rentals there should be some kind of planning permission required for a change of use, or at the very least a registration scheme but I've never heard that that is the case.


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## equationgirl (Apr 17, 2012)

Re insurance - depends on the policy. I don't have landlord specific insurance, my homeowner policy has a clause in it that says the property can't be vacant for longer than 6 weeks else the policy will lapse but nothing about the types of tenants that can be in it.

I have a student couple in at present, and before they took it it was going to be offered to someone on housing benefits but he changed his mind. I'm quite happy to rent to someone on benefits.


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## krink (Apr 17, 2012)

Just a general point to add, you don't even have to tell your landlord you get HB it is none of their business and you can tell the LA to make sure they do not contact the landlord. We do this all the time at work. (obviously, you might 'have' to tell landlord if you want them to wait for the hb to start before you pay any rent)


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## equationgirl (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> You don't have to register with anything afaik to rent your property in england. I personally think that to do private rentals there should be some kind of planning permission required for a change of use, or at the very least a registration scheme but I've never heard that that is the case.


A real shame. The scheme here was introduced to legally bind landlords into providing a certain level of housing, in particular to do with fire safety. two students died in a fire in Glasgow (iirc) as the landlord had provided a substandard property, basically a scum landlord.

I think there should be something in England too.


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## Ms Ordinary (Apr 17, 2012)

There's letting agents & letting agents btw - some (tended to be the smaller, shadier outfits IMO) are as prejudiced & ignorant as the worst of the amateur private landlords, others (tended to be the more professional, normal estate agent types) treat the guarantor agreement as they are supposed to i.e. they couldn't care less if you are low income, unwaged or whatever as long as the guarantor passes their credit check because it's the guarantor that would be liable for any rent shortfall. 

The downside of this is that the credit check for the guarantor might be quite stringent and/or inflexible & there'll probably be tenancy renewal fees etc - a *good *private landlord can be better than an agent, even then it can get a bit too personal.


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## Ms Ordinary (Apr 17, 2012)

krink said:


> Just a general point to add, you don't even have to tell your landlord you get HB it is none of their business and you can tell the LA to make sure they do not contact the landlord. We do this all the time at work. (obviously, you might 'have' to tell landlord if you want them to wait for the hb to start before you pay any rent)


 
That's good - but how on earth do you go about finding a tenancy in the first place if you have no income to show from employment?  Unless you have savings to cover 6 months or a year of rent (which I'm pretty sure would mean you aren't eligible to claim HB anyway).


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## krink (Apr 17, 2012)

Ms Ordinary said:


> That's good - but how on earth do you go about finding a tenancy in the first place if you have no income to show from employment? Unless you have savings to cover 6 months or a year of rent (which I'm pretty sure would mean you aren't eligible to claim HB anyway).


 
that's a good point and I don't think my info would help much in that scenario.


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> You don't have to register with anything afaik to rent your property in england. I personally think that to do private rentals there should be some kind of planning permission required for a change of use, or at the very least a registration scheme but I've never heard that that is the case.


You do now. The deposit has to be placed with one of three tenancy deposit protection schemes.They have to lodge it within a few days of the start of the tenancy and tell you which scheme it is in the same timeframe. If they don't do this, the tenant is entitled to be awarded three times the amount of the deposit regardless of whether they deposited it later on or not.

Hard to actually pursue (mixed results in court cases so far), but quite handy to know if you're dealing with an amateur landlord. Most of them don't bother, and you can put the fear of god into them if you mention the legislation, should they ever give you hassle once the deadline for depositing is past. If they fuck up in that first fortnight, it will cost them 3x your deposit to kick you out.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

ymu said:


> You do now. The deposit has to be placed with one of three tenancy deposit protection schemes.They have to lodge it within a few days of the start of the tenancy and tell you which scheme it is in the same timeframe. If they don't do this, the tenant is entitled to be awarded three times the amount of the deposit regardless of whether they deposited it later on or not.
> 
> Hard to actually pursue (mixed results in court cases so far), but quite handy to know if you're dealing with an amateur landlord. Most of them don't bother, and you can put the fear of god into them if you mention the legislation, should they ever give you hassle once the deadline for depositing is past. If they fuck up in that first fortnight, it will cost them 3x your deposit to kick you out.


 
that's good, i had a vague idea about all that, not sure how that would tie into my friend's theory that they're trying to dodge tax on their rental income.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

Oh, and to report back from the local paper.  There is a grand total of one property to rent, in Preston, with two bedrooms or more featured that does not explicitly state 'no DSS' in the advert.


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

Ugh.



radio_atomica said:


> that's good, i had a vague idea about all that, not sure how that would tie into my friend's theory that they're trying to dodge tax on their rental income.


I have no idea if the TDS's have to tell HMRC about landlords - they're all private schemes and I'm not sure how they're regulated (or how soon the Tories will abolish them). But if landlords are trying to fly under the radar, they hand an awful lot of power to a tenant who knows about the TDS's. They get ridiculous tax breaks anyway, so it may not be a very big deal. Not many of them are paying any tax on rental income, thanks to Brown being a stupid neoliberal cunt.


*spelling pedants please note, the paragraph above contains two correct uses of the greengrocers' apostrophe.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

ymu said:


> Ugh.
> 
> 
> I have no idea if the TDS's have to tell HMRC about landlords - they're all private schemes and I'm not sure how they're regulated (or how soon the Tories will abolish them). But if landlords are trying to fly under the radar, they hand an awful lot of power to a tenant who knows about the TDS's. They get ridiculous tax breaks anyway, so it may not be a very big deal. Not many of them are paying any tax on rental income, thanks to Brown being a stupid neoliberal cunt.
> ...


 
I did think that if they're the type who think its optional to report your income to the tax man, its also optional to use an appropriate deposit scheme...


----------



## Jackobi (Apr 17, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> In general, I thought any debt had to be pursued within X amount of time or they couldn't do anything.
> 
> I'm not sure whether benefits are different - and since they can probably deduct it from any future benefits.
> 
> I'd be inclined to challenge it, and ask them to prove it (rather than just say "it's because our computer says so")


 
After six years, a debt owed to the DWP is statute barred, meaning that a court cannot grant a liability order against the debt. However, you are right that it can be deducted at source from any benefits claimed now or in the future.


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## tufty79 (Apr 17, 2012)

if you find somewhere, definitely make sure your deposit's protected straight off, and it's also worth making sure you get an inventory when you move in, and take photographs of EVERYTHING that's not in perfect condition when your tenancy starts. (standard advice, but easy to forget to do)


my ex-landlord tried to retain my deposit for 'damages' (when there weren't any), and the whole thing ended up going through Alternative Dispute Resolution with the deposit protection people. it ended up alright, as he didn't seem to realise that they wouldn't just take his word for it (his 'evidence submission' was blank ), but if it hadn't been protected I would've been screwed. (wondering about the 'if it's not protected within a few days he has to pay 3xback'; he took a year, and the DPS only said that if it hadn't been protected *at all*, then the 3 x would apply )

re HB and guarantors, it seems to work that way up here as well - leeds council were advertising a private rental company who'll only accept lha-claiming tenants with guarantors (which made me actually  in public), but maybe individual private landlords might be different?


best of best of luck in finding somewhere, r_a.


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

The law says it's 3x back to the tenant, the courts have varied in their interpretation. Some tenants have been awarded the full amount when the landlord sneakily deposited it late. There's quite a big website somewhere with the caselaw on this and some no-win no-fee types offering to take cases on.

For us, the most important thing was being able to use the law as ammunition against a shit landlady. She backed off from ridiculous demands and threats the moment she realised we had her bang to rights. (We didn't, because ASTs aren't valid for boat rentals, but she didn't know that. ).


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

I sent the Equality & Human Rights Commission Helpline this:



> I am writing to you to inquire about indirect sexual discrimination, and indirect discrimination against those with caring responsibilities in the private rental sector.  I have recently had to start looking for rented accommodation for myself and my two young children after splitting up with their father.  Because I am claiming Income Support (as I am entitled to do as a lone parent with children under the age of 7), I am also entitled to Housing Benefit.
> 
> However, despite being in a strong position to take a private tenancy, having the money for a deposit and the first month's rent ready, a guarantor who would pay the rent if I failed to do so, and a very strong credit rating, and the housing department of my local council willing to provide proof that I would be entitled to Housing Benefit were I to commence a tenancy in their property, many lettings agencies and private landlords will not even enter into dialogue with me about whether they would be willing to rent a property to me.  Because I would be claiming Housing Benefit, they will not even consider me.
> 
> ...


 
Their auto-response claims it will get back to me within 5 days.  I'm fairly certain (unless there is some annoying and tedious loophole in statute or case law) that it is indirect discrimination under the Equality Act 2010.  Whether it could be a human rights issue I don't know because the UK has never signed protocol 12 of the ECHR, claiming that our legislation (The Equality Act 2010) is robust enough 'not to need anything else'.


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## weepiper (Apr 17, 2012)

You are radio_atomica, hear you ROAR


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

Great stuff. 

Be aware that the EHRC has had its funding cut and they've had to close some specific helplines because of it. I don't think it directly affects this, but they are under a helluva lot of pressure because of the cuts to the funding combined with an increase in their workload due to cuts elsewhere.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

ymu said:


> Great stuff.
> 
> Be aware that the EHRC has had its funding cut and they've had to close some specific helplines because of it. I don't think it directly affects this, but they are under a helluva lot of pressure because of the cuts to the funding combined with an increase in their workload due to cuts elsewhere.


 
I know.  But I am one of the great unwashed who gets paid by the government to spend my days lolling around watching Jeremy Kyle and eating biscuits so I have a lot of time to be incredibly annoying.

By this I mean, I don't have time for this shit, but am prepared to be annoying if required until I get an answer.

I am just wondering now, if I should wait 5 days to get an answer from them or just start emailing other random organisations who might have any slight interest in it.


----------



## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

Get onto all of them, I think. Shelter must be working hard on this kind of shit. Quite a few MPs and unions have spoken out about the disproportionate effect of the cuts on women. It might be useful to trawl the news reports to dig out some names - should throw up more orgs also. MPs who speak to the press about these things tend to have some kind of national portfolio, so you don't have to be a constituent to contact them.

If you want to email MPs:
2010 new intake email addresses: theresa.may.mp@parliament.uk
Pre-2010 intake email addresses: mayt@parliament.uk

There's a fair few Labour bods who would want to support this. If you can stomach them.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

ymu said:


> Get onto all of them, I think. Shelter must be working hard on this kind of shit. Quite a few MPs and unions have spoken out about the disproportionate effect of the cuts on women. It might be useful to trawl the news reports to dig out some names - should throw up more orgs also. MPs who speak to the press about these things tend to have some kind of national portfolio, so you don't have to be a constituent to contact them.
> 
> If you want to email MPs:
> 2010 new intake email addresses: theresa.may.mp@parliament.uk
> ...


 
This isn't even about the cuts though!  Its nothing to do with the changes to benefits or cuts to LHA that are coming in, its how its always been, although it does seem to be getting A LOT WORSE now cuts have been announced because landlords are panicking...


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 17, 2012)

ymu said:


> Get onto all of them, I think. Shelter must be working hard on this kind of shit. Quite a few MPs and unions have spoken out about the disproportionate effect of the cuts on women. It might be useful to trawl the news reports to dig out some names - should throw up more orgs also. MPs who speak to the press about these things tend to have some kind of national portfolio, so you don't have to be a constituent to contact them.
> 
> If you want to email MPs:
> 2010 new intake email addresses: theresa.may.mp@parliament.uk
> ...


 
 at making a stand.

on the trade union front, Unite have a 'community membership' category which accepts unemployed people, at a subscription of 50 p a week - may be something they might want to take up?


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> This isn't even about the cuts though! Its nothing to do with the changes to benefits or cuts to LHA that are coming in, its how its always been, although it does seem to be getting A LOT WORSE now cuts have been announced because landlords are panicking...


I know it's not about the cuts. But it fits beautifully into the 'zeitgeist'. (Ugh).

And they are panicking because of the cuts. There's been a rise in refusal to take DHSS since the 'reforms' and the uncertainty around what will happen.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 17, 2012)

I can think of the Fawcett Society and Liberty as charities that may be possibly interested.  And there was another one that loves researching poverty.  The Rowntree Foundation?  I am meant to be doing an essay


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## ymu (Apr 17, 2012)

Rowntree, yes.

Essay first. Let all this sort itself out in your head whilst you get on with that. When you're done with the essay, the emails will write themselves.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 18, 2012)

Been to see the housing office people today.  She said its a bloody nightmare trying to find housing for people because there's a massive lack of local authority housing for people who are entitled to 2 bedrooms, they're not allowed to house them in 3 bed properties anymore, even though they have them standing empty, and there are lots of 2 and 3 bed private rentals around at a decent price but the landlords won't touch the tenants.  She was very sympathetic tbh, I don't think its her job to listen to me complain about how UNFAIR the world is but she still did.  Thumbs up city council for your housing office staff


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## radio_atomica (Apr 18, 2012)

Also, it looks like I have found a house (well done not an arse landlord for having the sense to contact the council and say 'have you got anyone looking for a house?').  Will have to use the car/bus to get M to school but its not the end of the world, at least I have some vague sense of security now about knowing where we will be living!


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## tufty79 (Apr 18, 2012)

:massive thumbs:
brilliant news


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## weepiper (Apr 18, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> Also, it looks like I have found a house (well done not an arse landlord for having the sense to contact the council and say 'have you got anyone looking for a house?'). Will have to use the car/bus to get M to school but its not the end of the world, at least I have some vague sense of security now about knowing where we will be living!


 
omg that is excellent news.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 18, 2012)

weepiper said:


> omg that is excellent news.


 
Its funny, quite bad things keep happening, but then they lead to me being able to avoid an even worse thing happening, or in this case, a really good thing happening.  I would never have run the council housing office and had a rant about the situation, if that lettings agent hadn't bullshitted me, and as a result, I found out about this house.


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## purenarcotic (Apr 18, 2012)

It's interesting seeing how things are in different parts of the country.  On Gumtree, nearly every result says DSS acceptable, and none of the estate agents online stipulate 'no DSS'.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 18, 2012)

Good news! 
Looks like I'm gonna have to start this HB/LHASA merrygoround again soon. Will post in the other thread soon do I don't derail this one, but I'll say this now: ARSE!


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## Orang Utan (Apr 18, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> It's interesting seeing how things are in different parts of the country.  On Gumtree, nearly every result says DSS acceptable, and none of the estate agents online stipulate 'no DSS'.


My recent search was nearly all No DSS, and I'm in London. It fucking stinks.
There's a very real possibly I'll have to give up searching for work in London and go back to my parents again, just after turning 39.


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## purenarcotic (Apr 18, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> My recent search was nearly all No DSS, and I'm in London. It fucking stinks.
> There's a very real possibly I'll have to give up searching for work in London and go back to my parents again, just after turning 39.


 
It fucking sucks, doesn't it.   Brum seems a lot more open to DSS - whether that's because it's been hit particularly hard by the recession, or landlords aren't so bothered I don't know.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 18, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> It's interesting seeing how things are in different parts of the country. On Gumtree, nearly every result says DSS acceptable, and none of the estate agents online stipulate 'no DSS'.


 
I know.  Where my friend lives near Sunderland, there is something stupid like 75% unemployment most properties say 'we welcome DSS tenants' and don't ask for a deposit.

However, I was only bothering contacting ones where the listings didn't specifically say 'no DSS' and as soon as I spoke to someone the first question was 'do you have a job?' and when you say 'no' 'sorry no the landlord doesn't want DSS'.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 18, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> It fucking sucks, doesn't it.  Brum seems a lot more open to DSS - whether that's because it's been hit particularly hard by the recession, or landlords aren't so bothered I don't know.


 
I can't help but wondering if the local council has a good working relationship with private landlords, there may be more of an understanding of how the system actually works in those areas, and therefore less prejudice.  It is simply that they don't understand the system/have had a bad experience or heard about a bad experience in a lot of cases.  However, the landlord I spoke to today told me about a guy he had move in who wasn't on HB, turned out he made his money by dealing drugs, from the property he was renting.


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## radio_atomica (Apr 18, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> My recent search was nearly all No DSS, and I'm in London. It fucking stinks.
> There's a very real possibly I'll have to give up searching for work in London and go back to my parents again, just after turning 39.


 
In the other thread, apparently a lot of the increase is caused by the proposed changes to LHA, which will unfortunately affect London the worst, so I can see why the reaction from landlords would be the strongest there, even if it is totally unfounded and unjust.

However, I reckon, if there is a case of indirect discrimination, it would open up the whole industry to scrutiny.  If it was proved that discrimination against women was occurring, presumably it would benefit everyone else as well, because if they can't discriminate against women, by allowing women and not men, they are then discriminating against men so I'm pretty sure the whole thing would be open to change.  However, this could all be bollocks from my head, still waiting for an email back from the equality bods.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 24, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> In the other thread, apparently a lot of the increase is caused by the proposed changes to LHA, which will unfortunately affect London the worst, so I can see why the reaction from landlords would be the strongest there, even if it is totally unfounded and unjust...


in related news:
"A London council's plan to move housing benefit claimants to Stoke-on-Trent will increase pressure on already vulnerable neighbourhoods and could prompt an increase in "divisive rightwing extremism", according to one housing association asked by the council to accommodate 500 families."
full article in the grauniad


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## radio_atomica (Apr 24, 2012)

Thanks for posting that.  I think its time to start hassling the Equality Commission, they haven't replied to me yet.  Interestingly my next door neighbour I found out today is in the same position as me.  She needs to move out of the house that she joint owns with her ex to be closer to her daughter's school.  She has worked since leaving school, stayed in her job since her first daughter was born 9 years ago, but had to leave after the split due to various reasons so guess what, she's on HB and can't find anywhere to live now


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## radio_atomica (Apr 26, 2012)

OOh had a response today.



> The Helpline works within the scope of Equality Act 2010 and advises people who have been discriminated against, on grounds of their age, race, disability, gender, religion or belief, marriage and civil partnership, Pregnancy and maternity, sexual orientation, or transgender status. We also advise on Human Rights Act.
> 
> The Helpline is unable to give you a legal opinion on this issue. I have passed the issue on for further consideration. I will be back in touch as soon as I receive a response to your query.


 
Do we think that might mean that nobody has asked the question before?


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 26, 2012)

radio_atomica said:


> Do we think that might mean that nobody has asked the question before?


 
It certainly suggests that there's no case law to set a precedent


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## weepiper (Apr 26, 2012)

ooh, that sounds promising!


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## radio_atomica (Apr 26, 2012)

weepiper said:


> ooh, that sounds promising!


 
I KNOW I know!!!!  I thought of a question to ask them, and they needed to ask some more knowledgeable people what the answer was!!


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## radio_atomica (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm still stupidly excited about the idea that this might go somewhere. My friend who is a social policy geek found me the up to date stats on HB claimants, and over 60% are single women. It puts the argument in an even stronger position!  And this is the stat for lone parents "Of the 1.71 million recipients with at least one child dependent, 1.16 million of these were single."


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## ButterPie (Apr 29, 2012)

Go for it 
Hi, by the way 
(social policy geek friend here)


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## penguin79 (May 25, 2012)

Having the same problem here!! We moved to a property in devon, owned by what we thought was a really nice lady, we did not disclose were in reciept of LHA, as we also run a community group part time. My partner is also my carer and I suffer from bipolar. We now have to move as the private water supply has failed, we have no drinking water and the bath water is brown, she has been pretty useless in fixing it although she has tried, now she has decided, out of the blue to give us notice! We have an excellent reference from her, bank statements that prove we have never failed to pay the rent and even the offer of a guarantor, this is apparently not good enough. Seeing as we have shown that we are good renter, both by paying the rent and looking after the property immaculatly and even paying all the rent despite the water issue we had had for almost all of our tennancy we cannot secure accomodation! So it is to do with something other than our ability to pay and look after the property??? If my partner actually got paid a proper wage for the work he does, ie almost always 24 hour care we would not have this issue!!!
What annoys me is that our experience of landlords is that they are the ones who fail to fix things and look after the property not the other way round! It makes me realise its discrimination about circumstances that are no fault of our own, and nothing to do with our ability to pay and maintain the property. We have 8 weeks to leave and no-one will rent to us???? We do have a campervan if it comes to it!!!


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## ViolentPanda (May 25, 2012)

penguin79 said:


> Having the same problem here!! We moved to a property in devon, owned by what we thought was a really nice lady, we did not disclose were in reciept of LHA, as we also run a community group part time. My partner is also my carer and I suffer from bipolar. We now have to move as the private water supply has failed, we have no drinking water and the bath water is brown, she has been pretty useless in fixing it although she has tried, now she has decided, out of the blue to give us notice! We have an excellent reference from her, bank statements that prove we have never failed to pay the rent and even the offer of a guarantor, this is apparently not good enough. Seeing as we have shown that we are good renter, both by paying the rent and looking after the property immaculatly and even paying all the rent despite the water issue we had had for almost all of our tennancy we cannot secure accomodation! So it is to do with something other than our ability to pay and look after the property??? If my partner actually got paid a proper wage for the work he does, ie almost always 24 hour care we would not have this issue!!!
> What annoys me is that our experience of landlords is that they are the ones who fail to fix things and look after the property not the other way round! It makes me realise its discrimination about circumstances that are no fault of our own, and nothing to do with our ability to pay and maintain the property. We have 8 weeks to leave and no-one will rent to us???? We do have a campervan if it comes to it!!!


 
Have you done the usual stuff, such as contacted your local welfare rights organisation, and your local authority's housing office? Obviously the housing office is highly unlikely to be able to offer you a council gaff, but they may (as may the local welfare rights people) have a register of landlords who don't need all the usual bullshit paperwork, *and* they can record you as being imminently homeless.

Oh, and *DON'T* mention the campervan to the housing office, because as far as they're concerned, that's "housing", and they won't be as likely to help you.


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## weepiper (Nov 19, 2012)

Bumping as this seemed like the best place to put this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/housing-network/2012/nov/19/banks-housing-benefit-restrictions

...which goes some way to explaining why some landlords will do just about anything to avoid letting to HB tenants.




			
				Yorkshire Building Society said:
			
		

> We didn't feel that DWP-supported tenants would generally fit in with the profile of landlords or properties that we are looking to lend to. This is mainly due to concerns about poor maintenance and repairs


 
 Now is it just me, or is it not _landlords_ who are responsible for maintenance and repairs  Also, I was on Housing Benefit for three years without any 'DWP support' whatsoever, I was getting it from the council while I was working as a single mum.


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## trashpony (Nov 19, 2012)

That is fucking disgraceful


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## el-ahrairah (Nov 19, 2012)

good grief.  that's fucking shit.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Nov 19, 2012)

So the usual "social tenants live like pigs in a pigsty" routine
ffs


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## Manter (Nov 19, 2012)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> So the usual "social tenants live like pigs in a pigsty" routine
> ffs


reading the full article, looks more like they want landlords with 'premium' properties.  they seem to be assuming that people who let to HB tenants buy crap and don't look after it.  Which is a whole other issue


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## wemakeyousoundb (Nov 19, 2012)

Manter said:


> reading the full article, looks more like they want landlords with 'premium' properties. they seem to be assuming that people who let to HB tenants buy crap and don't look after it. Which is a whole other issue


ah ok, I'd only read the quote


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## Peter Maddison (Apr 10, 2013)

mr steev said:


> That's not how it worked for me.
> 
> My experience was to receive a random letter from the DWP saying I owed them £53. I rang them and asked what it was for and they said it was an overpayment of housing benefit from a property I lived in 9 years ago!
> 
> Because it has been so long ago I have no way of proving whether they are wrong or not. It takes the piss. It's not like I've been hiding or anything (always been on electoral role etc) so I don't understand why it's taken them so long to get in touch.  I've not paid it


 
How long has it been from actually having final contact from the DWP to the start of the letters requesting/demanding repayment of the £53? If 6 or more years, I'm sure it should be statute barred as in most debts but I'm not sure how it would be with the DWP.


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## mr steev (Apr 10, 2013)

I couldn't tell you exactly when I had the first letter, but it was a good few years after I'd stopped claiming


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## Blagsta (Apr 10, 2013)

Yeah, it'll be statute barred.  This means they can't take you to court over it, but they can take it out of any future benefit claims.


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## Blagsta (Apr 10, 2013)

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/e...25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act


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## Peter Maddison (Apr 10, 2013)

Blagsta said:


> Yeah, it'll be statute barred. This means they can't take you to court over it, but they can take it out of any future benefit claims.


 
Then surely, YOU could take them to court for taking the money off you for a debt that is SB?


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## Blagsta (Apr 10, 2013)

Peter Maddison said:


> Then surely, YOU could take them to court for taking the money off you for a debt that is SB?


 
No.  Statute barred just means they can't take you to court.  They can still try and recover in other ways.


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## Peter Maddison (Apr 10, 2013)

*Please bear in mind that this paragraph is in relation to being chased by Debt Collection Agencies (DCA's)*
You would send this letter to the lender after 6yrs of not acknowledging the debt. Just bear in mind you should never admit that you had the account, it is always referred to as an 'alleged account' or the account you refer to. Do not use the term 'My Account' especially not within 6yrs or you're back to square one again. You must send it recorded delivery (proof of postage) and do not sign it - get someone else to sign for you or use a type font when you print it!

Dear Sirs
*Statute Barred Account No/Reference No: XXXXXXXX*
You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself. I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 "an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued".
I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that "it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period". The last acknowledgement to this debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, I suggest that you are no longer able to take any action against me to recover the alleged amount claimed.
The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statue barred could amount to harassment". I await your written confirmation that no further contact will be made concerning the above account and confirmation that this matter is now closed.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully,

You could try that....


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## Peter Maddison (Apr 10, 2013)

Blagsta said:


> No. Statute barred just means they can't take you to court. They can still try and recover in other ways.


 
But for £53 I cant see them taking anyone to Court! It would cost more in fees etc...
By them taking it out of anyone’s money anyway is a bit underhand as it's like, 'Right, I WILL take it and there’s NOTHING you can do about it.'


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## Blagsta (Apr 10, 2013)

Peter Maddison said:


> But for £53 I cant see them taking anyone to Court! It would cost more in fees etc...
> By them taking it out of anyone’s money anyway is a bit underhand as it's like, 'Right, I WILL take it and there’s NOTHING you can do about it.'


 
That's the DWP for you.  They were recently chasing me for a supposed £40 social fund loan from 10 years ago.  I can't remember taking it out, but I may have done.  I wrote to them asking for evidence of the loan and they ignored me.  I then told them it was statute barred and they wrote a snotty letter back stating that they would take it out of any future benefits payments including my pension!


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## Peter Maddison (Apr 10, 2013)

Blagsta said:


> That's the DWP for you. They were recently chasing me for a supposed £40 social fund loan from 10 years ago. I can't remember taking it out, but I may have done. I wrote to them asking for evidence of the loan and they ignored me. I then told them it was statute barred and they wrote a snotty letter back stating that they would take it out of any future benefits payments including my pension!


 

Surely if they cant provide proof of the debt, they cant take anything off you.


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## Blagsta (Apr 10, 2013)

Peter Maddison said:


> Surely if they cant provide proof of the debt, they cant take anything off you.


 
That'll be my tactic when they try!


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## Peter Maddison (Apr 10, 2013)

Blagsta said:


> That'll be my tactic when they try!


 
Hope you succeed when they try


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## Blagsta (Apr 10, 2013)

Cheers


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 19, 2013)

Peter Maddison said:


> *Please bear in mind that this paragraph is in relation to being chased by Debt Collection Agencies (DCA's)*
> You would send this letter to the lender after 6yrs of not acknowledging the debt. Just bear in mind you should never admit that you had the account, it is always referred to as an 'alleged account' or the account you refer to. Do not use the term 'My Account' especially not within 6yrs or you're back to square one again. You must send it recorded delivery (proof of postage) and do not sign it - get someone else to sign for you or use a type font when you print it!
> 
> Dear Sirs
> ...


this explain why that DCA is sending me a yearly letter then, at least the rude calls stopped quite a while back.


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