# Is a Welshman a different 'race' to an Englishman?



## Stobart Stopper (Jan 7, 2005)

Following on from the spat that is going on between Ernestolynch and another poster, I want to ask: Is poking fun at a Welsh person's language racist?

I always deem the term racist to be poking fun at a person becasue of their skin colour.


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

"lawdy lawdy massa please I akse you don whip me massa, gimme mo' chickan and watermelon"
"bud bud ding ding thousand apologies but get out my shop"
"ahso- wha' you wan'? you wan' flied lice? you wan' prawn cracka'?"

Work it out.


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## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

Oh, not again.........


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## Stobart Stopper (Jan 7, 2005)

So, if a Jamaican bloke takes the piss out of my Cockney accent, is he a racist?


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> So, if a Jamaican bloke takes the piss out of my Cockney accent, is he a racist?



Yes.


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## Stobart Stopper (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't think he is, he's not commenting on my skin colour is he? Just taking the piss out of the way I speak.


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## Uralian (Jan 7, 2005)

ErnstoLynch, let's have more, those were good!

Damnit can we please have images on threads?


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## Bonfirelight (Jan 7, 2005)

What if i take the piss out of a geordie accent or a norfolk accent?

where will it stop! It's madness I tell you.


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## Griff (Jan 7, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> So, if a Jamaican bloke takes the piss out of my Cockney accent, is he a racist?








"Oh Gawd blimey! Apples & Pears! Gawd bless the Queen Mum! Rub a Dub! 'ang about!"


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## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

Of course you should take the piss out the Welsh.  Its a point of honour.


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## tarannau (Jan 7, 2005)

Yeah, but Ern I seem to you remember trying to take the piss out of my username without realising that it's a common Welsh word.  

...RACIST!!!!
 

All those proud Celtic warriors living in English suburbia eh...


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## Uralian (Jan 7, 2005)

Griff said:
			
		

> "Oh Gawd blimey! Apples & Pears! Gawd bless the Queen Mum! Rub a Dub! 'ang about!"


 OI, why can you post images and not me? What's up???


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## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

Bonfirelight said:
			
		

> What if i take the piss out of a geordie accent or a norfolk accent?
> 
> where will it stop! It's madness I tell you.



But those are _English_ accents. As I said on a previous thread, its more akin to taking the piss out of an Indian because they 'speak funny'.


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## Oxpecker (Jan 7, 2005)

Is a Welshman a different 'race' to an Englishman? 

A thousand years ago - maybe - but now we're all mongrels.


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Of course you should take the piss out the Blacks.  Its a point of honour.


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## Stobart Stopper (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm going to Waitrose to buy some nice Welsh lamb, far better than that New Zealand bollocks.


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## Nemo (Jan 7, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> I'm going to Waitrose to buy some nice Welsh lamb, far better than that New Zealand bollocks.



You eat testicles?   *Crosses legs.*


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## Griff (Jan 7, 2005)

Uralian said:
			
		

> OI, why can you post images and not me? What's up???








Dunno!


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## tarannau (Jan 7, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> I'm going to Waitrose to buy some nice Welsh lamb, far better than that New Zealand bollocks.



Ah, the superior moistness of Welsh lamb is due to that internal marinading...
  


Anyway, I'm allowed to post up this rubbish. I'm half Welsh after all....


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## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

Maybe ernie you should stop misquoting me.  If you want to make a point make it in your own terms rather than distorting what I've written.


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## Nemo (Jan 7, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Ah, the superior moistness of Welsh lamb is due to that internal marinading...



Thanks for that lovely mental image.


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## Bonfirelight (Jan 7, 2005)

if i'm doing an impression of someone i'll attempt their accent. simple as. There's no malice and no harm and so no racism surely?


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## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> All those proud Celtic warriors living in English suburbia eh...



Was the head of Bran not buried in Llyndain?


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## tarannau (Jan 7, 2005)

Nemo said:
			
		

> Thanks for that lovely mental image.




Sorry...

Remarkably, during my years in Aberystwyth there was actually a confirmed case of 'marination' 

A local shop owner call Cyril claimed that the animal 'backed onto him' in court...

I would be inclined to believe that it was an urban myth coupled with some local paper shenanigans, but a quick google search of the relevant terms seems to bring up a disturbing number of results....

Fortunately the guy owned the local gift shop rather than the Butchers...


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## Yossarian (Jan 7, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> Following on from the spat that is going on between Ernestolynch and another poster, I want to ask: Is poking fun at a Welsh person's language racist?



It's being a twat but I don't know if you can call it racism or the Welsh a race in the usual sense of the term - there are black Welshmen, aren't there?


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## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

Funky_monks said:
			
		

> Was the head of Bran not buried in Llyndain?



Exactly, but youll rarely find an Englishman who knows the the history of these islands.


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## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Exactly, but youll rarely find an Englishman who knows the the history of these islands.



I blame the teachers.


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## gawkrodger (Jan 7, 2005)

Uralian said:
			
		

> ErnstoLynch, let's have more, those were good!
> 
> Damnit can we please have images on threads?



you need to put






then it'll work


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## Nemo (Jan 7, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Exactly, but youll rarely find an Englishman who knows the the history of these islands.



Which particular bit of the History of these islands did you have in mind? Because I suspect you'll find that there's quite a lot to know - far more than any one person whatever their origins could ever learn in a lifetime.


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Exactly, but youll rarely find an Englishman who knows the the history of these islands.



Yeah, but that's cos we don't need to. We arrived, we took over, then the french came and took over. Cue WWI and modern history. That's about it isn't it?


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## Griff (Jan 7, 2005)

gawkrodger said:
			
		

> you need to put
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It doesn't work for that particular image.


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## Nemo (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> Yeah, but that's cos we don't need to. We arrived, we took over, then the french came and took over. Cue WWI and modern history. That's about it isn't it?



1066 and all that.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2005)

On seconds thoughts let's just forget i even posted on a thread like this...


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## Agent Sparrow (Jan 7, 2005)

Surely its not racist but it is xenophobic?

I feel slightly guilty. Someone sent me a forward today of some quite breathtaking stupidity that was genuinely funny, but unfortunately felt the need to tag it Irish. Shame cos it wasn't neccessary for the joke.


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## holteman (Jan 7, 2005)

ok my final take on rasicm

a comment IMO is deemed racist if it is intended in a derogatory  manner.

someone who jokes around with coloured friends and calls them certain names can be exceptable if both partys understand its a laugh....i take the piss out my scottish mate and he takes the piss out my brummie accent....we find it funny and acceptable.

if a comment is made to someone with intention to offend or in an inappropriate manner then that is unacceptable.

also you have to take into account social acceptance. if a black guy took the piss out my brummmie accent or call me a brummie twat i wouldnt find that to offensive. if however i was to call him a n*gger or something along the lines it would be alot more so.....this is due to the history and use of the word. Id be using it deliberatly knowing this was going to cause alot of offence and distress for the person.

so in my conclusion though words such as taffy and paddy are offensive to a degree, i wouldnt put them up there with n*gger and bl*ck basterd etc etc


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## ddraig (Jan 7, 2005)

yes, of course a Welshman is a different race, we are celtic
enuough of the offhand 'jokey'   comments bout the welsh please, always the same sneering underneath and soooooo predictable superior attitude  

diolch


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## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

ddraig said:
			
		

> yes, of course a Welshman is a different race, we are celtic
> enuough of the offhand 'jokey'   comments bout the welsh please, always the same sneering underneath and soooooo predictable superior attitude
> 
> diolch



Oh do fuck off you silly Taff.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 7, 2005)

To answer the original post...I'm not sure if the Welsh and English are a different 'race', but there are genetic differences (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2076470.stm).

Therefore I'm not sure if abusing a Welshman is technically racist. Racism is the best word for it though, because have you ever heard the word Regionism, or Geneticmakeupism?

Perhaps we should all just develop a sense of humour eh?


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## Agent Sparrow (Jan 7, 2005)

mwgdrwg said:
			
		

> Therefore I'm not sure if abusing a Welshman is technically racist. Racism is the best word for it though, because have you ever heard the word Regionism, or Geneticmakeupism?


Sorry to repeat, but surely its xenophobia – prejudice towards foreigners. 

If someone was to slag off the French or German it would be xenophobic, surely slagging off the Welsh should be classed as the same?


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## ddraig (Jan 7, 2005)

what's your problem Hollis?   honestly?


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 7, 2005)

Agent Sparrow said:
			
		

> Sorry to repeat, but surely its xenophobia – prejudice towards foreigners.
> 
> If someone was to slag off the French or German it would be xenophobic, surely slagging off the Welsh should be classed as the same?



Probably.


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## ddraig (Jan 7, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Oh do fuck off you silly Taff.


 your last post is a case in point


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

To be serious for a sec, not like me I know, but the whole tribalism thing just annoys me. _Yes_ I know it's hardwired into us _yes_ I understand it's all about a sense of belonging yada yada yada ... but surely we're developed enough to at least _try_ to break our programming now?

So much of what I read on here  -the whole tiresome fucking chav thing, the whole Welsh/Scottish/Irish/English thing, whatever, just seems to be driven by this need to categorise, subdivide and demonise.

Fucks me right off.


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Oh do fuck off you silly coon.


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ddraig said:
			
		

> your last post is a case in point



You are joking, right?


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## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

Agent Sparrow said:
			
		

> Sorry to repeat, but surely its xenophobia – prejudice towards foreigners.
> 
> If someone was to slag off the French or German it would be xenophobic, surely slagging off the Welsh should be classed as the same?



I agree with this. Surely racism and xenophobia are equally abhohrrent though?


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## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

mwgdrwg said:
			
		

> Perhaps we should all just develop a sense of humour eh?



Something which tends to be lacking amongst internet 'nationalists'. - apart from those whose whole internet persona is that of a 'Comedy Welsh Nationalist'.

Btw ernie  - funny how your misquotes have far more impact than _anthing_ I've posted...


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## Agent Sparrow (Jan 7, 2005)

Funky_monks said:
			
		

> I agree with this. Surely wether you call it racism and xenophobia are equally abhohrrent?


Of course.

But then I'd also say that it carries more weight if the nationals that are being slagged off are from a country who's nationals have been persecuted at the hands of the nationals who are slagging it off.

So even though its still xenophobia not racism, I guess you could possibly argue that English people slagging off the Irish, the Welsh and the Scottish carries more weight than English people slagging off the French....

Possibly...


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> To be serious for a sec, not like me I know, but the whole tribalism thing just annoys me. _Yes_ I know it's hardwired into us _yes_ I understand it's all about a sense of belonging yada yada yada ... but surely we're developed enough to at least _try_ to break our programming now?
> 
> So much of what I read on here  -the whole tiresome fucking chav thing, the whole Welsh/Scottish/Irish/English thing, whatever, just seems to be driven by this need to categorise, subdivide and demonise.
> 
> Fucks me right off.



Spoken like only a true English could say.


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

2/10

Come on ern, you're waaay better than that.


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> 2/10
> 
> Come on ern, you're waaay better than that.



So you're not an English then?


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## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Spoken like only a true English could say.



He'll be accusing us of not having a sense of humour next..


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

Ern, how would you like to define English?


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## ddraig (Jan 7, 2005)

> You are joking, right?


  fucthest8
no, why would i be joking - tribalism might bore you but that post by hollis and yours above bears it out, you feel it ok to make these offhand remarks about thosew pesky 'different' types that live out in the provinces


> Yeah, but that's cos we don't need to. We arrived, we took over, then the french came and took over. Cue WWI and modern history. That's about it isn't it?


is fukin typical ingrained superiority    which you can go back and claim as a bit of a joke, hohoho


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> You are joking, right?



What I think he's getting at is the _way_ the word 'Taff' has been used in an insult. 

For example, the word Pakistani is not offensive. But saying 'Fuck off you silly Pakistani' is taking that word and making it offensive.


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## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

ddraig said:
			
		

> ...you feel it ok to make these offhand remarks about thosew pesky 'different' types that live out in the provinces



hahahaha


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Maybe fucthest8 would like to bring back the Raj while he's at it....uppity colonials, eh?


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## In Bloom (Jan 7, 2005)

ddraig said:
			
		

> is fukin typical ingrained superiority    which you can go back and claim as a bit of a joke, hohoho


Actually, I think its what they call "humour", you exceptionally touchy weirdo


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## tarannau (Jan 7, 2005)

ddraig said:
			
		

> fucthest8
> no, why would i be joking - tribalism might bore you but that post by hollis and yours above bears it out, you feel it ok to make these offhand remarks about thosew pesky 'different' types that live out in the provinces
> 
> is fukin typical ingrained superiority    which you can go back and claim as a bit of a joke, hohoho



Bit rich  if you ask me. It's not as though the Welsh are some isolated 'race' set off in a distant land. There are bloody loads of us emigrated taffs living all round the UK. and beyond - nearly everyone will have direct experience of  Welsh friends and/or acquaintances. 

You want tribal - try North vs South London. I reckon you're being a bit oversensitive here bubba - if you genuinely feel 'inferior'  because of a few light hearted jibes then I'd be very worried...


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## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

In Bloom said:
			
		

> Actually, I think its what they call "humour", you exceptionally touchy weirdo



I knew the old 'dont you have a sense of humour?' arguement would appear soon


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

I thought Holis' post was a deliberate wind-up, was my point. And my post was a deliberate wind up also. Oh look. It worked.

Hence my post about tribalism. I just don't get it. Sorry.

And no ern, I wouldn't like to bring back the raj. Suprisingly.


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

In Bloom said:
			
		

> Actually, I think its what they call "humour", you exceptionally touchy weirdo



Ah yes. This from some vegan dude who gets apopleptic about Bernard Manning jokes.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

traditionally the welsh were caucasians as were the english so no however these days there are just as many other race demograhpics in wales as there are anywhere else so it'd depend on whether it was a racist coment of acutual discrimintory behaviour based on ethicity grounds, whether it was in jest of two equal peers, or whether it was the third urban only catigory of ernesto being a prize twat ....

as for people taking the piss outta the way you talk stobart well that's cos you are essex common innit  



> Perhaps we should all just develop a sense of humour eh?



well said...



> yes, of course a Welshman is a different race,



no you are not unless there is the human race and the welsh which i'm sure on here would agree with... there are no races only humans, period...  the defination of race is based on the victorian idea that there are different genetic make ups of humans to be defined into catigories and sub catigories as such this is a false premise based on the idea that humans could be sperated into different speicies which we cannot biologically we are all the same either male or female and in some cases both (either by choice or design...) that's as far as you can split it... 

racism to me is the beleif that we can in some way sub divide past this point to try and impose a system of heirarchy or priorty based on something as gentically irrelevent as skintone based on nothing more than out dated empirical versioning systems developed to maintain class and social order by oppression...


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

Oh and ern, as before - please define English for me so I can't work out if I are one.


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Bit rich  if you ask me. It's not as though the Welsh are some isolated 'race' set off in a distant land. There are bloody loads of us emigrated taffs living all round the UK. and beyond - nearly everyone will have direct experience of  Welsh friends and/or acquaintances.
> 
> You want tribal - try North vs South London. I reckon you're being a bit oversensitive here bubba - if you genuinely feel 'inferior'  because of a few light hearted jibes then I'd be very worried...



So how many _'lighthearted' _nigger jokes can I make before I resort to saying 'ooh you're all so touchy'?


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## ddraig (Jan 7, 2005)

> Actually, I think its what they call "humour", you exceptionally touchy weirdo



yeah at the expense of someone not english
i am not an exceptionally touchy weirdo, just pissed off with this shit on a daily basis.



> I reckon you're being a bit oversensitive here bubba - if you genuinely feel 'inferior' because of a few light hearted jibes then I'd be very worried...


i don't feel inferior, just annoyed like


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## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> I thought Holis' post was a deliberate wind-up, was my point. And my post was a deliberate wind up also. Oh look. It worked.
> 
> Hence my post about tribalism. I just don't get it. Sorry.
> 
> And no ern, I wouldn't like to bring back the raj. Suprisingly.



Would you be as dismissive if the twat decided to wind up 'Pakis' or 'Micks' or 'Kikes'?


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2076470.stm


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Would you be as dismissive if the twat decided to wind up 'Pakis' or 'Micks' or 'Kikes'?



Of course he wouldn't he's a liberal English racist.


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## ddraig (Jan 7, 2005)

ok garf, ethnicity/origin not race then


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## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Of course he wouldn't he's a liberal English racist.



Poor ernie... I feel your oppression.


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## Uralian (Jan 7, 2005)

My theory about tribalism is that the enlightenment failed, and now people are looking to create new identities to take them out of the existential morass. The enlightenment was, among other things, universality, hope, progress, the idea of a 'true' self hiding under communal attachments and identities. Now that the enlightenment is over and life in the mental metropole is generally agreed to be shit, people are rejecting it and looking back to what they percieve to be their 'true roots'.


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## Stobart Stopper (Jan 7, 2005)

How come the Editor doesn't complain when I call him 'Boyo' as I have done in pms before now?


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2076470.stm



And your point is? That I need to know my genetic makeup?


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Uralian said:
			
		

> My theory about tribalism is that the enlightenment failed, and now people are looking to create new identities to take them out of the existential morass. The enlightenment was, among other things, universality, hope, progress, the idea of a 'true' self hiding under communal attachments and identities. Now that the enlightenment is over and life in the mental metropole is generally agreed to be shit, people are rejecting it and looking back to what they percieve to be their 'true roots'.



Take your fucking head out of your textbook for a minute, poindexter.


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## Yossarian (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2076470.stm




So is the Welsh nation a closed shop then, only allowing in people with Welsh genes from a thousand years ago? Are people born and raised in Wales but lacking the Welsh gene not Welsh? Is there no such thing as a black Welshman?


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> or whether it was the third urban only category of ernesto being a prize twat ...



I plead the third.


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## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Here's the racist cunt who started all this. What username do you use on Stormfront, 'goldeneshitrone'?


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## In Bloom (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Ah yes. This from some vegan dude who gets apopleptic about Bernard Manning jokes.


Besides anything else, the joke wasn't even directed at the Welsh, it was a mock simplification of history, which ddraig got all pisy about because it used the phrase "we took over".  And I won't tell you again, I'm not a fucking vegan


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 7, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> How come the Editor doesn't complain when I call him 'Boyo' as I have done in pms before now?



Because there is a difference between saying "Alright Boyo?" with a friendly smile, and saying "Fuck off Boyo".

As I tried to explain in an earlier post, it's not the words themselves that are offensive but the way they can be used as an insult.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 7, 2005)

Where's the Friday afternoon jokes thread? 

Maybe this is it....


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## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2076470.stm




You see - if *Adolf Hitler* had been alive today.. he'd probably be posting up links about gene-pools.


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Here's the racist cunt who started all this. What username do you use on Stormfront, 'goldeneshitrone'?


Nah, I prefer OldarseholeErnie.


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ANyway, ignoring all the above, ern, any chance of an actual answer to my question? Or Yoss's?


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## tommers (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2076470.stm




fair enough.  but who were here before the celts?  and which "race" of apemen lived here originally?  and which fish did they come from?  and what type of ameoba were they developed from?

this is all utter, utter bollocks.

IMO of course.


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## editor (Jan 7, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> How come the Editor doesn't complain when I call him 'Boyo' as I have done in pms before now?


It's all down to the person saying it and their intent, innit?

So if a drinking chum says, "get your round in you Taffy/Welsh cunt/boyo", that's not offensive in the slightest. But if some random oaf aggressively tells me to "fuck off boyo", I won't be best pleased.


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## jd (Jan 7, 2005)

As far as I'm concerned, no.  My parents are both welsh born welsh speakers.  I was born in London.  

Am I welsh?  Not really - a bit maybe.  

Are they?  Surely yes.  

Are we different races?  Are we bollocks.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 7, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> It's all down to the person saying it and their intent, innit?
> 
> So if a drinking chum says, "get your round in you Taffy/Welsh cunt/boyo", that's not offensive in the slightest. But if some random oaf aggressively tells me to "fuck off boyo", I won't be best pleased.



Look up ^^^


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## editor (Jan 7, 2005)

mwgdrwg said:
			
		

> Look up ^^^


No, I read your post, but I wanted to get my point across seeing as SS specifically referred to me.


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## Stobart Stopper (Jan 7, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> It's all down to the person saying it and their intent, innit?
> 
> So if a drinking chum says, "get your round in you Taffy/Welsh cunt/boyo", that's not offensive in the slightest. But if some random oaf aggressively tells me to "fuck off boyo", I won't be best pleased.



But do you regard yourself to be a different race from the English, in the genetic sense?


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 7, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> No, I read your post, but I wanted to get my point across seeing as SS specifically referred to me.



of course.


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## Thora_v1 (Jan 7, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> But do you regard yourself to be a different race from the English, in the genetic sense?


I thought it was pretty widely accepted that there's no real genetic basis for "race"?


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## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> It's all down to the person saying it and their intent, innit?
> 
> So if a drinking chum says, "get your round in you Taffy/Welsh cunt/boyo", that's not offensive in the slightest. But if some random oaf aggressively tells me to "fuck off boyo", I won't be best pleased.



So 'boyo' is pretty much an irrelevance.. its all about intent..

That wouldn't be the same with paki etc.. which is far more offlimits.

Similarly if I get called a stupid Yokel.. I don't give a shit.. unless the persons being aggressive, inwhich case I'll be more worried about the aggression.


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## tarannau (Jan 7, 2005)

Yossarian said:
			
		

> So is the Welsh nation a closed shop then, only allowing in people with Welsh genes from a thousand years ago? Are people born and raised in Wales but lacking the Welsh gene not Welsh? Is there no such thing as a black Welshman?



Exactly. I'm proud of my Welsh roots for sure, but this whole idea of some bogus kind of Celtic racial purity is more than a little disturbing to me. This whole island's a hotch potch of people and old tribes - I'm happy to be part of it.

I also find it particularly strange that someone so clearly opposed to many ideas of multiculturalism and acceptance of racial/cultural difference is so keen to to keep harping about some distinct celtic race. Whilst living in suburbia with a non-celt of course....

I'm a Heinz 57 taff and proud of it. I can even take a joke and everything.


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## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> I'm a Heinz 57 taff and proud of it. I can even take a joke and everything.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> That wouldn't be the same with paki etc.. which is far more offlimits.


Not always. Depends on the person. I worked on a building site years ago and people traded all sorts of similar 'insults' that might have appeared   highly offensive if heard out of that environment.

(I won't repeat them here though!)


----------



## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Not always. Depends on the person. I worked on a building site years ago and people traded all sorts of similar 'insults' that might have appeared   highly offensive if heard out of that environment.
> 
> (I won't repeat them here though!)



Well I know that!  But I also wasn't going to go there..


----------



## HarrisonSlade (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2076470.stm


As well as having the biggest post count through typical one word answers and sweeping abuse, you must now have the Urban75 record for the most times anyone has posted up the same address. 

And what is your point? No wait, let me guess. To point out the hypocrisy of people who condemn jokes about Jews or black people, but will make or laugh at jokes about the Welsh or the Scots. Not that you feel uncomfortable when anyone makes a joke about the Welsh, but you really want to make racist jokes whenever you please; and for no one to condemn you for it. I find it very sad that you go to the trouble (not too much however; as that address is 2 and a half years old) to proove to us that you yourself are part of a persecuted species - alongside Lloyd George and Nye Bevin; and countless other Politicians and Actors who have dominated British History. Well it just doesn't wash. You seem to prove such by using History and genetics....about your racial heritage....think about it....isn't this what the Nazis used to do?
The fact is that people don't bother about Welsh jokes because no one really bothers about Welsh culture in that way (except for fanatics like yourself). To most people, Welsh culture is as important as any other regional culture in England. 
Making a joke about beating up black people or saying black people are all animals is a lot more vile than laughing at leeks and saying "Boyo". Get over it.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ddraig said:
			
		

> ok garf, ethnicity/origin not race then


nope still doesn't work if you are born in swansea and live your entire life in london are you a different ethnicity can you claim that you should be treated differently becuase you have a different origin than say some one born in brixton?  what about your kids or there kids... 

ethnicity is nothing other than another word for race... 

now if you really wanted to tackle this issue you should be going at this from a logically arguable stand point not one made up bases on hookem science...

there is an argument with which you could justify singling people out as a form of discrimination but as you and most clamouring to side with erns stupid wasict cat calls and hollers based on the aforementioned mud science premise... you should attempt to left your luddite head and think what that basis would be... 

hint it's not about race or ethnicity... or skintone... or place... 


got it yet?



no didn't think so....




the thing that is reffered to as racism is nothing short of cultural clash; as such you can have a cultureal disagreement with some one which is based on their way of doing things even on their way of speak which is born out of a difference in cultures... this can be an agressive confrontational disagreement however it is still nothing more than a clash of cultures. 

perpetuating the myth that there is a race or ethnicity to discriminate against only serves to reneforce the idea that we are seperated by more than a difference in our culture, and that that notation and seperation as a result of the difference is self perpetuating racism... which reenforces the staus quo too continue the idea we are all seperate and thus should be classified and or treated in different ways as a result.  

thus the divide and rule format works and we all remain oppressed... 

and they said the class system was dead eh  

now bend over all of yers like good little slaves and take you shafting from the system...


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Fuck off Slade you racist nob.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> now bend over all of yers like good little slaves and take you shafting from the system...


Eh? There's no such action going on in my bottom, thanks very much.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Hey Slade didn't you have a hissy fit about that 'Up The Arse' thread?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Eh? There's no such action going on in my bottom, thanks very much.



i'm glad to hear that your system is not being penitrated by their system


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

Hey ernie, any danger of answering my question? No? Still? I wonder why.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Hey Slade didn't you have a hissy fit about that 'Up The Arse' thread?



Was that the one where someone reckoned Ernie spoke like a man with a leek up his arse? Or was that a different one?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> Hey ernie, any danger of answering my question? No? Still? I wonder why.



What question?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

goldenecitrone said:
			
		

> Was that the one where someone reckoned Ernie spoke like a man with a leek up his arse? Or was that a different one?



Yor posting style IS actually very similar to someone on Stormfront...


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> What question?



I'll take that as a no then. Not exactly suprised.

But just in case - DEFINE ENGLISH FOR ME SO I CAN WORK OUT IF I ARE ONE.

Did you see it that time?


----------



## tarannau (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Yor posting style IS actually very similar to someone on Stormfront...



Really? How long have you been 'observing' there Ern?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Yor posting style IS actually very similar to someone on Stormfront...



Spend a lot of time on there do you?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 7, 2005)

I think this will answer all questions....


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Fuck off Slade you racist nob.



fuck of ern you fundamentalist cultural supremicist 

how about you accept that most people will carry on using the outdated outmoded system of race to classify cultural clashes until they accept there are only humans and you stop with your trolling antics and attempts to wind people up about their use of the very system which oppresses them, least you to be thought of as another purportator of that oppression...

just like all other supremiscists your jack boots are just as big as theirs...


----------



## longdog (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Yor posting style IS actually very similar to someone on Stormfront...




Just how much time do you spend on stormfront?


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

mwgdrwg said:
			
		

> I think this will answer all questions....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




In that case .... I'm Irish.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

longdog said:
			
		

> Just how much time do you spend on stormfront?



Same time as you. Comes in handy when you're sniffing out wolves in sheep's clothing on here.


----------



## longdog (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Same time as you. Comes in handy when you're sniffing out wolves in sheep's clothing on here.



Not spending any time there comes in handy for "sniffing out wolves in sheep's clothing"? 

Your logic defies me


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Same time as you. Comes in handy when you're sniffing out wolves in sheep's clothing on here.



Splendid. Now

DEFINE ENGLISH FOR ME SO I CAN WORK OUT IF I ARE ONE.


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

> The fact is that people don't bother about Welsh jokes because no one really bothers about Welsh culture in that way (except for fanatics like yourself). To most people, Welsh culture is as important as any other regional culture in England.



Well said that man.

Wales is just a region of Britain, like the Midlands or the South East. To say the Welsh are a "separate race" is at best laughable and at worst, quite alarming. Why can't some people see that whilst most may be proud of their inherant cultural heritage or societal traits, and we all have a right to being a part of those traits and developing them as concepts, as far as "race" is concerned, there is only one race:

THE HUMAN RACE.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> Splendid. Now
> 
> DEFINE ENGLISH FOR ME SO I CAN WORK OUT IF I ARE ONE.



Short, fat neck, weak chin, receding hairline, usually bald by 35, dirty blond hair, small eyes like piss'oles in the snow, quite short and stocky build, ape-like walk, dragging knuckles along the floor, propensity for stomach-ailments and chronic alcoholism.

Well, 'is you one'?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Nick Griffin said:
			
		

> Well said that man.
> 
> Wales is just a region of Britain, like the Midlands or the South East. .



See what I done?


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2005)

goldenecitrone said:
			
		

> Was that the one where someone reckoned Ernie spoke like a man with a leek up his arse?


How would someone know what that sounds like, then?


----------



## LDR (Jan 7, 2005)

Why do some many people have this huge issue about where they come from and does it really matter?  

I just cannot get excited by whom my ancestors were.  It is all an accident of birth is it not?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

LD Rudeboy said:
			
		

> Why do some many people have this huge issue about where they come from and does it really matter?
> 
> I just cannot get excited by whom my ancestors were.  It is all an accident of birth is it not?



I bet the Maori in your home country feel the same. 

Add this arse to the 'Racist Saxon Pig' List.


----------



## Epicurus (Jan 7, 2005)

Do many people on here have some kind of emotional attachment to the place they were born? 

It seems a little strange to me, could someone try and explain it for me? I was born where I was born because that is where my mother was at the time.


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Short, fat neck, weak chin, receding hairline, usually bald by 35, dirty blond hair, small eyes like piss'oles in the snow, quite short and stocky build, ape-like walk, dragging knuckles along the floor, propensity for stomach-ailments and chronic alcoholism.
> 
> Well, 'is you one'?



Aren't.

Of course your lack of an actual answer is the answer I was expecting. Cheers ern. Added to the utter wank you posted under LDR's post and you've given me everything I needed, cheers.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> Aren't.



Bet you is an English.


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

Sing ern, 

_Is you is or is you ain't an English_


----------



## In Bloom (Jan 7, 2005)

Epicurus said:
			
		

> Do many people on here have some kind of emotional attachment to the place they were born?
> 
> It seems a little strange to me, could someone try and explain it for me? I was born where I was born because that is where my mother was at the time.


Its not about the location you pompous arse, its about cultural heritage


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> See what I done?



Is'nt Nick Griffin a resident of the Land of Our Fathers?


----------



## ddraig (Jan 7, 2005)

what exactly do you have to be proud of anyways?

or is that it, nothing you can put your finger on eh


----------



## LDR (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch - So because I don't have an emotional attachment to my ancestors that makes me a a 'Racist Saxon Pig'?  

How did you work that out?


----------



## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

YAY!!  Trad English culture..


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Me bets you is 100% Anticelt.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 7, 2005)

Nick Griffin may be a temp resdient, he's in hiding and he's gonna get one too


----------



## meurig (Jan 7, 2005)

<ahem>

is you is or is you ain't an english?
The way you're actin' lately makes me doubt
Yous is still an english
Seems my flame in your house's done gone out


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> Is'nt Nick Griffin a resident of the Land of Our Fathers?



He is a foreign colonialist white settler, unwelcome in Cymru. He should go back to Saxon-Occupied-Prydain-Dwyrain.


----------



## jd (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Short, fat neck, weak chin, receding hairline, usually bald by 35, dirty blond hair, small eyes like piss'oles in the snow, quite short and stocky build, ape-like walk, dragging knuckles along the floor, propensity for stomach-ailments and chronic alcoholism.
> 
> Well, 'is you one'?



This, in a thread full of posts in which Ernesto accuses others of national prejudices.  It must be ironic, surely?  One day will Ern will appear with a big grin and a bag of sweets for everyone.  I just know it.


----------



## Epicurus (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> propensity for stomach-ailments and chronic alcoholism.


We both know someone like this I think


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

ddraig said:
			
		

> Nick Griffin may be a temp resdient, he's in hiding and he's gonna get one too



He wouldn't be living in Y Trallwng if Cayo was still alive.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> See what I done?




been a bored twat posting bollocks again at work when you should be marking the maths papers ...


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

LD Rudeboy said:
			
		

> ernestolynch - So because I don't have an emotional attachment to my ancestors that makes me a a 'Racist Saxon Pig'?
> 
> How did you work that out?



What's your position on the native Maori of Aoteoroea? Tell em to stop moaning?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> How would someone know what that sounds like, then?




prolly asked milesy


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

<unsubscibes from nationality>


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> He is a foreign colonialist white settler, unwelcome in Cymru. He should go back to Saxon-Occupied-Prydain-Dwyrain.



I think you'll find he'd be unwelcome in England too.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> been a bored twat posting bollocks again at work when you should be marking the maths papers ...



I wish you'd fucking pick up your use of your beloved 'English Language'. Some capitalisation would be a start.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> What's your position on the native Maori of Aoteoroea? Tell em to stop moaning?




what's your postition on perpetuting the cultureal supremisict shit your spreading you fundamentalist...

ernestolynch = bnp troll


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> I think you'll find he'd be unwelcome in England too.



I think British Nationalists like you would make him most welcome.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I wish you'd fucking pick up your use of your beloved 'English Language'. Some capitalisation would be a start.



it's not my language but your cultural supremicist bollocks has ment you are too lazy to learn arabic or welsh for that matter...


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> what's your postition on perpetuting the cultureal supremisict shit your spreading you fundamentalist...
> 
> ernestolynch = bnp troll



Garfieldlechat = rich jewish princess


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I think British Nationalists like me would make him most welcome.



see what i did there?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> it's not my language but your cultural supremicist bollocks has ment you are too lazy to learn arabic or welsh for that matter...



Why the fuck would I want to talk wog?

(Disclaimer - if Hollis and Goldenbollocks can do it then so can I)


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Garfieldlechat = rich jewish princess



well you got the rich and the princess right dear but jewish is harsh that'd be like calling you essex


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> see what i did there?



Native British Nationalist yes - but none of this Germanic/Norman/Viking rubbish. Nor camel-jockeys like you, Abdul.


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Why the fuck would I want to talk wog?




Fucking classic, I'm saving this one


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Why the fuck would I want to talk wog?
> 
> (Disclaimer - if Hollis and Goldenbollocks can do it then so can I)




the appropreate term is towel head or camel jockey or dune coon or eh-rab not wog there is nothing western oriental gentalmanly about me 

ernestoshazzer


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

Ah, don't you just love Fridays? That release of the frustration built up through a weeks' hard graft.

I wish everyone would set aside their differences of "nation" and define their location as Will Self does:

"I regard myself as a citizen of an archipelago that happens to be called Britain."


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> Ah, don't you just love Fridays? That release of the frustration built up through a weeks' hard graft.
> 
> I wish everyone would set aside their differences of "nation" and define their location as Will Self does:
> 
> "I regard myself as a citizen of an archipelago that happens to be called Britain."



What would that Kraut know? Britain is an island, not an archipelago.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

hey ernestoshazzer why can't you or your whale tail capri loving friends speak welsh then eh? love??


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> hey ernestoshazzer why can't you or your whale tail capri loving friends speak welsh then eh? love??



Yli gotsan, dos i grafu dy din drewllyd, ac er yn ol i dy siop kebab.

Trans : I'll have plenty of chilli sauce, Ahmed.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Me bets you is 100% Anticelt.



Haha I was discussing people like you with a _genuine 100% racially pure_ celt living in 'celtland' the other week.  She laughed.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Funny this - I don't take offense when I'm racially teased by a non-English (like this rag-head) with a sense of humour. It's not offensive. But it is when the Saxon/Norman does it.


----------



## Numbers (Jan 7, 2005)

Ern' - how's it going first of all, hope you had a good time back in the promised land.

fwiw.  I've read the whole thread and personally I'm a tad uncomfortable with some of the wording. the arguement is necessary but some of the text isn't.  makes me all agitated like.  

peace


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Funny this - I don't take offense when I'm racially teased by a non-English (like this rag-head) with a sense of humour. It's not offensive. But it is when the Saxon/Norman does it.




arw bless that cultureal imperialist supremisict nature can be taken out of the vallies eh? but you can't take the essex out of the boy...


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Funny this - I don't take offense when I'm racially teased by a non-English (like this rag-head) with a sense of humour. It's not offensive. But it is when the Saxon/Norman does it.



How interestingly rascist of you.


----------



## Yossarian (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm glad that only a tiny proportion of the population have similar views on race and nationality to this 'ernestolynch' caricature.


----------



## ICB (Jan 7, 2005)

I find jd's post the most informative and interesting on here, which is saying something considering what a dull git he is. 

I'm 1/8 welsh, 1/8 irish, 1/8 cornish and the rest english (i.e. mongrel anyway) if we want to play "what's my national makeup going back a couple of generations" and I suspect much the same can be said of almost everyone on here including sweet little Ern.  Or is he a true blood and soil merchant who's traced his lineage back to pre-Christian days?  It's all so important I can barely wait to find out.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Funny this - I don't take offense when I'm racially teased by a non-English (like this rag-head) with a sense of humour. It's not offensive. But it is when the Saxon/Norman does it.



Arabs never nicked anythiing from us.  Maybe we should have teamed up with them in the Middle Ages and gone Islamic...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

mike can you please change ernesto's name to ernestoshazzer please please please  i'll do a poll and everything


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

Yossarian said:
			
		

> I'm glad that only a tiny proportion of the population have similar views on race and nationality to this 'ernestolynch' caricature.



Tragically I'm not sure the proportion _is_ that tiny.


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

> Funny this - I don't take offense when I'm racially teased by a non-English (like this rag-head) with a sense of humour. It's not offensive. But it is when the Saxon/Norman does it.



You anti-SAXON / NORMANIST

***Ern's post reported for being wasist****


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ICB said:
			
		

> Or is he a true blood and soil merchant who's traced his lineage back to pre-Christian days?



He's not so pure that he won't move among the sais though is he?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

tony1798 said:
			
		

> Ern' - how's it going first of all, hope you had a good time back in the promised land.
> 
> fwiw.  I've read the whole thread and personally I'm a tad uncomfortable with some of the wording. the arguement is necessary but some of the text isn't.  makes me all agitated like.
> 
> peace



Cheers tone - noted.

I'm trying to get it through to these English that the Welsh, Scottish and Irish DO have a different sense of nationality, culture and belonging, and that for them arses to say we're just 'regionalist moaners' or some bollocks is the same as what they said to the 'Hindoos' and 'Hottentots' in the days of Empire.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Arabs never nicked anythiing from us.  Maybe we should have teamed up with them in the Middle Ages and gone Islamic...




where do you think the irish came from or the brehan laws???

there was even an egyptian princess who married an irish king....


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> He's not so pure that he won't move among the sais though is he?



Are yuo saying a native Amerindian could no longer live in California as they are a minority there?


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I'm trying to get it through to these English that the Welsh, Scottish and Irish DO have a different sense of nationality, culture and belonging, and that for them arses to say we're just 'regionalist moaners' or some bollocks is the same as what they said to the 'Hindoos' and 'Hottentots' in the days of Empire.



Really? Is this really what you're trying to achieve? If so ern, you making a fucking total balls up of it. Get one of your students next time.


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Are yuo saying a native Amerindian could no longer live in California as they are a minority there?



Nope.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

To Ern:

why have you got Iosif (Joseph) Vissarionovich Stalin in georgain under your name?  

and does yor tank have go faster stripes and fluffy dice?

edited oops my bad it was in georgain not russian and tentative at that


----------



## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

tony1798 said:
			
		

> Ern' - how's it going first of all, hope you had a good time back in the promised land.
> 
> fwiw.  I've read the whole thread and personally I'm a tad uncomfortable with some of the wording. the arguement is necessary but some of the text isn't.  makes me all agitated like.
> 
> peace



Nah - you see 'comedy persona' or not ernie's really done nothing to promote specifically Welsh interests on these boards.. he's just putting forward some silly caricature of the Welsh.. its really the Welsh that should be offended.


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> To Ern:
> 
> why have you got Iosif (Joseph) Vissarionovich Stalin in russian under your name?
> 
> and does yor tank have go faster stripes and fluffy dice?



He is the ghost of Uncle Joe, escaped from under the wall of the Kremlin and I claim my £ 5


----------



## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Nah - you see 'comedy persona' or not ernie's really done nothing to promote specifically Welsh interests on these boards.. he's just putting forward some silly caricature of the Welsh.. its really the Welsh that should be offended.



An Englishman telling us how to think again


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> Nope.



Yes you were. Why shouldn't a native Briton live in Llundain (London)?


----------



## LDR (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> What's your position on the native Maori of Aoteoroea? Tell em to stop moaning?



I am 1st generation New Zealander brought up in a Scottish family and have made England my home for the time being.  I do not feel like I completely belong to any national group, which may be why I find it hard to understand why people get so upset about their roots. 

Having said that, I do see your point that it is relevant to groups who believe that they are being treated negatively because of the national identity.  Apart from the odd sheep shagger joke and the line about "stealing our jobs", I have never really had a problem and therefore have a lack of understanding, but I think 'Racist Saxon Pig' is too harsh.

For what it is worth, I do think Maori have been ripped off over the Treaty of the Waitangi and their land rights but to be completely honest I do not know how to solve that problem.  What would you suggest?  But maybe that is for another thread.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> An Englishman telling us how to think again



hey Belushi.. don't get into that victim culture .. you don't _have_ to do what I say, y'know.


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Yes you were.



Fuck me, you're a mind reader now too? 

"By merely looking at your posts ... I can divine your cultural heritage ... and your intent ... look into the screen, look right into the screen, not around the screen, into the screen ... "


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> He is the ghost of Uncle Joe, escaped from under the wall of the Kremlin and I claim my £ 5




why should we remember edward said as is under your name ?


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> To Ern:
> 
> why have you got Iosif (Joseph) Vissarionovich Stalin in georgain under your name?
> 
> ...



Is _that_ what it is, it just comes up as a load of squares with summat in the middle of them (all the same) on my comp......


----------



## Nemo (Jan 7, 2005)

Ern, out of interest, can you actually trace your family back far enough to be certain you have no 'Saxon' or 'Norman' blood yourself? Because whilst I'm fairly certain that a lot of my ancestors were Saxon given some of the surnames and the areas of the country where the family comes from, I'm equally sure that there's likely to be Celtic, Norman, and Viking blood somewhere in the mix as well - that's the way things are.


----------



## jd (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Cheers tone - noted.
> 
> I'm trying to get it through to these English that the Welsh, Scottish and Irish DO have a different sense of nationality, culture and belonging, and that for them arses to say we're just 'regionalist moaners' or some bollocks is the same as what they said to the 'Hindoos' and 'Hottentots' in the days of Empire.



Fucking hell Ern!  The thread content bears no relation to that (which I kind of agree with I think).  That's got to be frustrating if it ain't deliberate.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

Funky_monks said:
			
		

> Is _that_ what it is, it just comes up as a load of squares with summat in the middle of them (all the same) on my comp......




it's in the georgain script so if you don't have that language installed on your pc then it won't come up really...


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Nemo said:
			
		

> Ern, out of interest, can you actually trace your family back far enough to be certain you have no 'Saxon' or 'Norman' blood yourself? Because whilst I'm fairly certain that a lot of my ancestors were Saxon given some of the surnames and the areas of the country where the family comes from, I'm equally sure that there's likely to be Celtic, Norman, and Viking blood somewhere in the mix as well - that's the way things are.



Yeah you can get your DNA checked for Celtic Racial Purity. Mine was 85% Celt. A company in Caernarfon does it for a small fee. 

Luckily I have NO Saxon/Norman in that errant 15%. It's Basque, which gladdens my heart.


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> why should we remember edward said as is under your name ?



Because he was one of the greatest writers on cultural representation of our time. His work is quite relevant to some of the posters on this thread. Read "Orientalism" if you are interested.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I'm trying to get it through to these English that the Welsh, Scottish and Irish DO have a different sense of nationality, culture and belonging, and that for them arses to say we're just 'regionalist moaners' or some bollocks is the same as what they said to the 'Hindoos' and 'Hottentots' in the days of Empire.



No your not.  Your just having a laugh in your self-admitted 'Comedy Welsh Nationalist' persona.

Do stop taking the piss.  (but only if you want to)


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> Because he was one of the greatest writers on cultural representation of our time. His work is quite relevant to some of the posters on this thread. Read "Orientalism" if you are interested.



Sounds like a right boring cunt to me.


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

*...*



> Yeah you can get your DNA checked for Celtic Racial Purity.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> Because he was one of the greatest writers on cultural representation of our time. His work is quite relevant to some of the posters on this thread. Read "Orientalism" if you are interested.




got a link to it then ???


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

Nemo said:
			
		

> Ern, out of interest, can you actually trace your family back far enough to be certain you have no 'Saxon' or 'Norman' blood yourself? Because whilst I'm fairly certain that a lot of my ancestors were Saxon given some of the surnames and the areas of the country where the family comes from, I'm equally sure that there's likely to be Celtic, Norman, and Viking blood somewhere in the mix as well - that's the way things are.



Isn't all this 'genetic makeup' stuff kinda missing the point? The fact is the Welsh do have a different cultural identity, one often casually and jokingly dismissed by the kind of people that would have an anyeurism if other cultures were made the butt of said joke.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> snip... It's Basque, which gladdens my heart.



ernestodago


----------



## LDR (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Luckily I have NO Saxon/Norman in that errant 15%. It's Basque, which gladdens my heart.



What affect would it have had on you if the errant 15% did have Saxon/Norman?  You'd still be the same person wouldn't you?


----------



## Numbers (Jan 7, 2005)

Hollis... I just don't like the nonchalant use of the N word, or any similar.


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

*...*

This page gives quite a good starter point for what you want to know:

Orientalism - For Begginners


----------



## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Yeah you can get your DNA checked for Celtic Racial Purity. Mine was 85% Celt. A company in Caernarfon does it for a small fee.
> 
> Luckily I have NO Saxon/Norman in that errant 15%. It's Basque, which gladdens my heart.



You could have a great chat with Milosevic.


----------



## Nemo (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Yeah you can get your DNA checked for Celtic Racial Purity. Mine was 85% Celt. A company in Caernarfon does it for a small fee.
> 
> Luckily I have NO Saxon/Norman in that errant 15%. It's Basque, which gladdens my heart.



So you are, in fact, an übermensch (if you'll forgive this Anglo-Saxon a brief descent into German). A question though, didn't the Celts originally come over from the continent anyway?

<Edited to add> And yes, FM, the whole genetic race thing is totally disingenuous, that's partly what I was trying to point out.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> ernestodago



ernestoxabi purlease - I'm not a filthy Castillian Ostrogoth/Visigoth...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

LD Rudeboy said:
			
		

> What affect would it have had on you if the errant 15% did have Saxon/Norman?  You'd still be the same person wouldn't you?



no he'd have to add self loathing to the list before cultural sumpreist i guess

fundalmentalist self loathing cultureal supremacist

like that 

besides he's admitted he's as mongeral as the rest now it's open season on his crossbreeding ass


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

LD Rudeboy said:
			
		

> What affect would it have had on you if the errant 15% did have Saxon/Norman?  You'd still be the same person wouldn't you?



I'd have killed myself on the spot.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> ernestoxabi purlease - I'm not a filthy Castillian Ostrogoth/Visigoth...




no love you just don't have the stature to bea visigoth though i here you do own a sisters of mercy album or two


----------



## LDR (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I'd have killed myself on the spot.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I'd have killed myself on the spot.




theres a spot where you can get 15% saxon/norman dna ?

that's a bit insensative to the staff that work there though wouldn't they have to clear up after you?


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I'd have killed myself on the spot.


----------



## Nemo (Jan 7, 2005)

Out of interest, Ern, how does this DNA test work anyway? I wasn't aware you could tie things down to that extent.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Like myself and many other posters have already outlined countless times:

There are only three races on earth:

Celt
Basque
Everything Else (Anticelt) - Saxon, Norman, Hindoo, Hottentot, Nipponese, Chinee, Arabian, Turkman, Red Indian, Walloon, Latino and so on.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Nemo said:
			
		

> Out of interest, Ern, how does this DNA test work anyway? I wasn't aware you could tie things down to that extent.



I didn't do it the doctors did.


----------



## ICB (Jan 7, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> An Englishman telling us how to think again






			
				ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I'm trying to get it through to these English that the Welsh, Scottish and Irish DO have a different sense of nationality, culture and belonging, and that for them arses to say we're just 'regionalist moaners' or some bollocks is the same as what they said to the 'Hindoos' and 'Hottentots' in the days of Empire.



A Welshman telling us how ALL Welsh, Scottish, and Irish people think.  Impressive.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

dear mr o lynch 

it appears that our recent dna test results we gave you were inconclusive it now appears we mixed up your results with a passing chiwawa which was also at the lab... we are please to confirm your new results are as follows

85% troll
14% saxon/norman
1% essex

yours sincerley 

Caernarfon dna testing co, london.

lucky escape there 15% and it would have been curtains for you there shazzer


----------



## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> dear mr o lynch
> 
> 85% troll
> 14% saxon/norman
> ...


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

ICB said:
			
		

> A Welshman telling us how ALL Welsh, Scottish, and Irish people think.  Impressive.



I dont think he was, I'm pretty sure he was only pointing out to certain ignoramuses that these cultures existed.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Like myself and many other posters have already outlined countless times:
> 
> There are only three races on earth:
> 
> ...




like i have pointed out this is a sub classifaction system which was invented in victorian times and summit that even the tanky himself tried to be shot of...


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm going to start a 'Suicide Thread'! 


Oh wait - Garf misread the name on the letter, it said Hollis.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> like i have pointed out this is a sub classifaction system which was invented in victorian times and summit that even the tanky himself tried to be shot of...



No it wasn't - we invented it before the Saxons despoiled our shores.

Anyway Newton wrote about gravity 350 years ago - does that make it out of date>?


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Like myself and many other posters have already outlined countless times:
> 
> There are only three races on earth:
> 
> ...



NAZI  !!!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I'm going to start a 'Suicide Thread'!
> 
> 
> Oh wait - Garf misread the name on the letter, it said Hollis.



theres a hollis o lynch too ....

fuck me some one kill it kill it hard it's breeding with the kin folk


----------



## Hollis (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> dear mr hollis
> 
> it appears that our recent dna test results we gave you were inconclusive it now appears we mixed up your results with a passing chiwawa which was also at the lab... we are please to confirm your new results are as follows
> 
> ...



Really fucking gutted about the cornish.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> NAZI  !!!



To paraphrase Pickman's Model (another Celt) - 

Why are you calling me an octogenarian German (or Austrian)?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> No it wasn't - we invented it before the Saxons despoiled our shores.
> 
> Anyway Newton wrote about gravity 350 years ago - does that make it out of date>?


 
no however there's the question of relevance which has to be taken into account to newton is relevant you are not  ernestoeta


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Really fucking gutted about the cornish.




so were they


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Really fucking gutted about the cornish.



Cornish (Kernewek) is a sub-race of the Celtic Race - that makes you 46% Celt! See - I didn't think you were all bad.


----------



## ICB (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> NAZI  !!!



Nah, that's what passes for humour in ern-world.  Either that or it's thinly disguised trolling but of course a regular poster would never breach the faq like that.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

it's the top half that's all bad in hollis case though  the bit that buys 2.99 wines and spills them or vomit's them up on yer carpet


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

*...*

Ern, when I looked at that "Celtic Racial Purity" remark it reminded me of a lot of Nazi beliefs.

Your underlining and unquestionable belief in the superiority of the "Celtic Race" makes you sound like those 1930's/1940's Nazis that believed in the superiority of the "Nordic Race".

An observation, that's all.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

ICB said:
			
		

> Nah, that's what passes for humour in ern-world.  Either that or it's thinly disguised trolling but of course a regular poster would never breach the faq like that.



Fine coming from the likes of you.

Jog on, nobjob.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ICB said:
			
		

> Nah, that's what passes for humour in ern-world.  Either that or it's thinly disguised trolling but of course a regular poster would never breach the faq like that.




i fucking would and i do


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> Ern, when I looked at that "Celtic Racial Purity" remark it reminded me of a lot of Nazi beliefs.
> 
> Your underlining and unquestionable belief in the superiority of the "Celtic Race" makes you sound like those 1930's/1940's Nazis that believed in the superiority of the "Nordic Race".
> 
> An observation, that's all.



No - we're the Chosen People.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> No - we're the Chosen People.



your welsh jewish ?

where's jeruslem or the dead sea in spain or cymrch then?


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 7, 2005)

*...*

Chosen for what exactly?


----------



## jd (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm bored of this now.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 7, 2005)

Richard White said:
			
		

> Chosen for what exactly?



To be the shit stirrers....


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

jd said:
			
		

> I'm bored of this now.




that implies you took any off this nonsense by ern seriously in the first place...


----------



## Nemo (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> No - we're the Chosen People.



Aren't you an atheist?


----------



## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> your welsh jewish ?
> 
> where's jeruslem or the dead sea in spain or cymrch then?



Ssh, we havent told the Israelis yet.

We're going to turn up one day and tell them Gods told us to start living in caravans in their back gardens


----------



## Loki (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Yeah you can get your DNA checked for Celtic Racial Purity. Mine was 85% Celt. A company in Caernarfon does it for a small fee.
> 
> Luckily I have NO Saxon/Norman in that errant 15%. It's Basque, which gladdens my heart.


Oh dear, you really must be obsessed with race to go that far - getting your DNA tested.

Many Welsh have Viking and/or Saxon traces in their DNA IIRC. Quite a few places in Wales are actually names from Old Norse, eg. Anglesey.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> Oh dear, you really must be obsessed with race to go that far - getting your DNA tested.
> 
> Many Welsh have Viking and/or Saxon traces in their DNA IIRC. Quite a few places in Wales are actually names from Old Norse, eg. Anglesey.



Quite a few - you named one. Name more then.

There's no herring-sucker blood in me. No Nordic scum DNA in my athletic build.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Ssh, we havent told the Israelis yet.
> 
> We're going to turn up one day and tell them Gods told us to start living in caravans in their back gardens




lol

ernestoshalompikey


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> where's jeruslem or the dead sea in spain or cymrch then?


Ninian Park, Caerdydd.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> Quite a few places in Wales are actually names from Old Norse, eg. Anglesey.



Thats just the English name for Ynys Mon.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Ninian Park, Caerdydd.




i didn't mean the model village


----------



## Oxpecker (Jan 7, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> Oh dear, you really must be obsessed with race to go that far - getting your DNA tested.



Hook 'em up, and reel 'em in, Ern


----------



## Loki (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Quite a few - you named one. Name more then.
> 
> There's no herring-sucker blood in me. No *
> Nordic scum* DNA in my athletic build.



You're a charmer, aren't you.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

Unfortunately when I had the test I discovered that I am only around 70% Celt.  I don't mind the Jewish and Indian blood but the 20% Sais left me almost suicidal.  

I'm thinking maybe there's some kind of ritual blood letting or something I could go through.  Ive always been abit of a twat and now I know why


----------



## diond (Jan 7, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Unfortunately when I had the test I discovered that I am only around 70% Celt.  I don't mind the Jewish and Indian blood but the 20% Sais left me almost suicidal.
> 
> I'm thinking maybe there's some kind of ritual blood letting or something I could go through.  Ive always been abit of a twat and now I know why



I don't know, there's loads of 100% Welsh Celts who are wankers.


----------



## Oxpecker (Jan 7, 2005)

This has been a really entertaining thread and as usual Ernesto has been a beacon of erudition and entertainment in a sea of ignorance and banality.

Owain Glyndwr would be proud.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

I heard about this test thing too............I am roughly composed of 1/4 each German/Saxon, Norman, Celt and Gaelic (viking?) blood.....

Oh, the internal struggle........


----------



## Loki (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Quite a few - you named one. Name more then.



I'm not gonna iterate a whole list of place names just for you. But Swansea is believed to derive from Old Norse too.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

Funky_monks said:
			
		

> I heard about this test thing too............I am roughly composed of 1/4 each German/Saxon, Norman, Celt and Gaelic (viking?) blood.....
> 
> Oh, the internal struggle........



Poor you!  Maybe we could arrange to have some blood transfused from Ern?  Do you think that would be practical?


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Jog on, nobjob.



You tryin' ta mug me off? Cunt.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 7, 2005)

Maybe it's the only way I can be saved........


----------



## Flavour (Jan 7, 2005)

where's the poll!

i say the racial intermixing between the welsh and the english has been so much that there is no discernable difference.


for instance...
Ernestolynch is himself half english, one of his parents being from my home town of Manchester.... yet I'm considered more english than him... even though i'm half irish half polish


----------



## Karac (Jan 7, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> I'm not gonna iterate a whole list of place names just for you. But Swansea is believed to derive from Old Norse too.


Abertawe you cretin!


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

Oxpecker said:
			
		

> This has been a really entertaining thread and as usual Ernesto has been a beacon of erudition and entertainment in a sea of ignorance and banality.
> 
> Owain Glyndwr would be proud.



What's you CRP level? If it's below 50% I'm not talking to you no more.


----------



## Oxpecker (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> What's you CRP level? If it's below 50% I'm not talking to you no more.



I had to do the test over the internet, but it came back at 87.5   

Quite high, no?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

yer all eh-rabs anyways  deal with it


----------



## Thumper Browne (Jan 7, 2005)

afaiac those dna tests do more to trample racist views than support them, they do show how mixed most poeple really are. The Welsh however, are a little different as the BBC article Ernesto linked to states, there were natural barriers preventing the Saxons and Normans from interbreeding with the Welsh Celts, that's not to say that much has gone on since then especially in the South.

No races as Garf says but it's not like its a clash of culture either, more like a massacre of culture. The Welsh are different, very different, we'd a have been a socialist nation in 80's if we hadn't been the first English colony.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

Thumper Browne said:
			
		

> afaiac those dna tests do more to trample racist views than support them, they do show how mixed most poeple really are. The Welsh however, are a little different as the BBC article Ernesto linked to states, there were natural barriers preventing the Saxons and Normans from interbreeding with the Welsh Celts, that's not to say that much has gone on since then especially in the South.
> 
> No races as Garf says but it's not like its a clash of culture either, more like a massacre of culture. The Welsh are different, very different, we'd a have been a socialist nation in 80's if we hadn't been the first English colony.




wasn't devon the first english colony ?


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 7, 2005)

Thumper Browne said:
			
		

> The Welsh are different, very different, we'd a have been a socialist nation in 80's if we hadn't been the first English colony.



Are you sure? Maybe the sympathy of Welsh (and Scottish) people to socialist ideas is a consequence of incorporation into the British state on unequal terms, not the result of essentially socialistic Welshness (or Scottishness).


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 7, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> Following on from the spat that is going on between Ernestolynch and another poster, I want to ask: Is poking fun at a Welsh person's language racist?
> 
> I always deem the term racist to be poking fun at a person becasue of their skin colour.



From what I've seen, Welshmen's heads are slightly rounder, and their way of speaking is a little bit funnier.


----------



## Thumper Browne (Jan 7, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Are you sure? Maybe the sympathy of Welsh (and Scottish) people to socialist ideas is a consequence of incorporation into the British state on unequal terms, not the result of essentially socialistic Welshness (or Scottishness).



I'm really not sure, I'm guessing for the Welsh elites the incorporation was on equal terms of the English elites and I would summise that the incorporation was equal for all the working classes of the union. Meaning that despite a colonial conquest seeming unevenhanded, the conquered at the mercy of the conqueror, many of the conquered (the elites) were in cahoots with the conquerors.

I think it was only when Welsh culture and language was being extinguished with Welsh Knots and the like can we even begin to look towards the English as the oppressor of the Welsh.

Maybe this had more to do with the staunch socialism of the Celts? Maybe its more to do with strong community identity derived from English oppression?


----------



## Wolfie (Jan 7, 2005)

Caernarfon's only just up the road so I'm just off to book my welshness test now - I'm praying my percentage of Welsh DNA is low or non-existant - I don't want to loose my cullinary skills after all


----------



## Flavour (Jan 7, 2005)

Flavour said:
			
		

> where's the poll!
> 
> i say the racial intermixing between the welsh and the english has been so much that there is no discernable difference.
> 
> ...



and all that stuff about saxons... thats rubbish too...


----------



## HarrisonSlade (Jan 7, 2005)

HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> As well as having the biggest post count through typical one word answers and sweeping abuse






			
				ernestonetricklynch said:
			
		

> Fuck off Slade you racist nob.



I rest my case


----------



## HarrisonSlade (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Hey Slade didn't you have a hissy fit about that 'Up The Arse' thread?


I spent a whole page or two feeding your lack of irony. That was months ago and you still haven't forgotten. You spend a lot of time defending either your Welshness or your racist views by attacking everyone else. I really wonder about you and have slight concerns.


----------



## Shirl (Jan 7, 2005)

Wolfie said:
			
		

> Caernarfon's only just up the road so I'm just off to book my welshness test now - I'm praying my percentage of Welsh DNA is low or non-existant - I don't want to loose my cullinary skills after all


Seeing as you're 93% gay, there's not a lot left to be Welsh, unless you want to be the only gay in the villiage.


----------



## mentalchik (Jan 7, 2005)

"Wolfie looks pleased after the results of his welshness test "...........


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 7, 2005)

Thumper Browne said:
			
		

> I'm really not sure, I'm guessing for the Welsh elites the incorporation was on equal terms of the English elites and I would summise that the incorporation was equal for all the working classes of the union. Meaning that despite a colonial conquest seeming unevenhanded, the conquered at the mercy of the conqueror, many of the conquered (the elites) were in cahoots with the conquerors.
> 
> I think it was only when Welsh culture and language was being extinguished with Welsh Knots and the like can we even begin to look towards the English as the oppressor of the Welsh.
> 
> Maybe this had more to do with the staunch socialism of the Celts? Maybe its more to do with strong community identity derived from English oppression?



I don't think the Welsh elites could have been incorporated on equal terms with English elites given that they were conquered, rather than brought in via dynastic marriage/succession and later on, bribery, the way Scots elites were.

The stuff about punitive measures against the Welsh language also happened in Ireland. But as well as that, in 19th century Ireland parents thought their kids would have a better chance if life if they spoke English. That's another reason why the language died out.

And Ireland is Gaelic, Celtic and a former colony (of sorts) - but socialism never really took off here, did it?


----------



## meurig (Jan 7, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> I don't think the Welsh elites could have been incorporated on equal terms with English elites given that they were conquered, rather than brought in via dynastic marriage/succession and later on, bribery, the way Scots elites were.
> 
> The stuff about punitive measures against the Welsh language also happened in Ireland. But as well as that, in 19th century Ireland parents thought their kids would have a better chance if life if they spoke English. That's another reason why the language died out.
> 
> And Ireland is Gaelic, Celtic and a former colony (of sorts) - but socialism never really took off here, did it?



I think you're right about the elites Idris. From what I can remember I think that most of the Welsh nobility fell to the level of landed gentry, with the Normans providing an aristocracy above that level.

The Welsh weren't even allowed into towns after the Glyndwr rebellion, so it's hard to see how Welsh leaders could have exerted any real political sway.

Your point about parents is certainly true. My own grandparents didn't teach my parents Welsh as they'd swallowed the line about it holding you back.

Might the socialism thing stem from Ireland's largely agrarian economy, rather than the heavily industrial economy of much of Wales - Marx would certainly say so.

Might the relative difference in religion also have played a part - chapel socialism was common in Wales, what was the Irish Catholic church's attitude towards socialism in the C19 and early C20?


----------



## Loki (Jan 7, 2005)

Karac said:
			
		

> Abertawe you cretin!


ah I think you're right. oops


----------



## meurig (Jan 7, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> ah I think you're right. oops


Never mind Loki, there's always Great Orme's Head nr Llandudno.

Even if it does celebrate the Welsh giving the Vikings a spanking.

<still at work at 7 on Friday ramble>
I've never got that the Irish beat us, the Anglo Saxons beat us, and the Normans beat us, but we were never conquered by the hardest bastards of the lot. How does that work?  
</still at work at 7 on Friday ramble>


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> "lawdy lawdy massa please I akse you don whip me massa, gimme mo' chickan and watermelon"
> "bud bud ding ding thousand apologies but get out my shop"
> "ahso- wha' you wan'? you wan' flied lice? you wan' prawn cracka'?"
> 
> Work it out.


Work it out? 

Answer: Ernesto really enjoys writing stereotypical and insulting posts about various cultures or anything else that is not Welsh? That he is a highly conservative, reactionary, right-wing nationalist, something that suits his top-5%-of-earners top-rate-tax bracket and authoritarian persona developed in his line of work? That he is a cultural chauvanist? That he is a worthless tosser (albeit with a sense of humour, clever turn of phrase and a burning distane for the SWP and anarkiddies) who never says anything genuine or relevant but sits around sniping from the sidelines, a sneering parasite on other people's contributions?

I'm sure I have missed something. I will come back to me.


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 7, 2005)

mwgdrwg said:
			
		

> To answer the original post...I'm not sure if the Welsh and English are a different 'race', but there are genetic differences (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2076470.stm).


This link keeps getting dragged up to try and show that Welsh people are a genetically distinct group and each time it is demolished. The headline seems to have been written by a BBC reporter who preobably didn't even have a science O level. Nowhere in the article does the scientist use the term "race", a fact that is further conformed by looking at website for Dr Mark Thomas at The Centre for Genetic Anthropology at UCL which sets out the research in far more detail: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/index.html

The Y chromosome is passed from father to son. This so-called "welsh" gene could be passed through several generations so that someone could inherit it from only one out of 16 great-great-grandparents. The rest of their great great grandparents could be from Nigeria or Outer Mongolia or wherever. In other words this is an utterly false and nonsensical basis for saying that the Welsh are genetically different.

(and just to illustrate this, here is something about Dr Mark Thomas himself _"The case of the other author, who probably derives from ancient Celtic stock, is even more remarkable. His Y chromosome haplotype has thus far been found only in two other individuals: one is his prospective Swedish father-in-law, the other a native of Turkey. But then, if we go back far enough, all men are not only born equal but are paternally related."_ source: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/ScienceSpectra-pages/SciSpect-14-98.html )


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I'm trying to get it through to these English that the Welsh, Scottish and Irish DO have a different sense of nationality, culture and belonging, and that for them arses to say we're just 'regionalist moaners' or some bollocks is the same as what they said to the 'Hindoos' and 'Hottentots' in the days of Empire.


This is a complete change of argument. You can have a sense of nationality, culture and belonging without any "racial" or genetic factors coming into it. Don't you consider Colin Jackson, for example, as Welsh?


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Yeah you can get your DNA checked for Celtic Racial Purity. Mine was 85% Celt. A company in Caernarfon does it for a small fee.


The only DNA-testing company I can find listed for Caernarfon is called Bee Robotics http://www.beerobotics.com/

Are you sure they didn't tell you were 85% insect?


----------



## Stobart Stopper (Jan 7, 2005)

Isn't Ernie due for one of his pissed-up Friday blow-outs?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

4 posts on the bounce, folks, the sane one's killed the thread, sorry folks!

Shame he didn't go down the swings for one of his 'functions'!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 7, 2005)

it's not like teejay to spend 47 minutes reading a thread...

is it?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 7, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> traditionally the welsh were caucasians as were the english.



I've always kind of wondered: what exactly is a 'caucasian'?

I don't think it has much to do with the Caucasus.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 7, 2005)

The Celts were never fucking Caucasians, begads!  We were always here.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> So how many _'lighthearted' _nigger jokes can I make before I resort to saying 'ooh you're all so touchy'?



I don't think the Welsh were the niggers of the British Isles. Wouldn't that have to go to either the irish or the scots?


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 7, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> it's not like teejay to spend 47 minutes reading a thread...


I not only read the whole thread and made a few comments, I also checked out several websites and read two short papers on genetics before making one of my replies. 

Of course I could copy you and make thousands of vacuuous posts that do nothing except cynically snipe at other people. Pickman's - you are like a kind of slime mould that grows on the walls of these forums - ubiquitous, inevitable but ultimately useless and generally unpleasant.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 7, 2005)

that's not what you said the last time we met.


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 7, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> I don't think the Welsh were the niggers of the British Isles. Wouldn't that have to go to either the irish or the scots?


The Scots? You really don't have a clue do you Canuck?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 7, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Not always. Depends on the person. I worked on a building site years ago and people traded all sorts of similar 'insults' that might have appeared   highly offensive if heard out of that environment.
> 
> (I won't repeat them here though!)



But there are limits. I've worked on lots of manual labour jobs where the insults and swearing fly hot and heavy, but no one ever jokingly referred to me as a nigger. Even the fresh off the boat dudes knew where to draw the line.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 7, 2005)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> I not only read the whole thread and made a few comments, I also checked out several websites and read two short papers on genetics before making one of my replies.
> 
> Of course I could copy you and make thousands of vacuuous posts that do nothing except cynically snipe at other people. Pickman's - you are like a kind of slime mould that grows on the walls of these forums - ubiquitous, inevitable but ultimately useless and generally unpleasant.


was that posted before or after you read my post on the halal meat thread?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Hey Slade didn't you have a hissy fit about that 'Up The Arse' thread?



What is the welsh position on anal sex?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 7, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> What is the welsh position on anal sex?


  

the same as everyone else's i'd have thought.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> The Celts were never fucking Caucasians, begads!  We were always here.




no you weren't what about the pics?


----------



## layabout (Jan 7, 2005)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> [..snip..]
> I'm sure I have missed something. I will come back to me.



fyi you missed a 't'.


----------



## diond (Jan 7, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> What is the welsh position on anal sex?


From behind and slightly higher than normal I'd say.


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 7, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> was that posted before or after you read my post on the halal meat thread?


Before.


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 7, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> that's not what you said the last time we met.


Was that at the book club xmas party? All I can remember was you ignoring me all evening.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 7, 2005)

Epicurus said:
			
		

> Do many people on here have some kind of emotional attachment to the place they were born?
> 
> It seems a little strange to me, could someone try and explain it for me? I was born where I was born because that is where my mother was at the time.



I'm attached to the place I was born.

I think it's because at least part of who you are, comes from where you are, where you were raised, the people around you, etc, either in that you share traits etc with them, or you react against them.

I have no desire anymore to live back in the area of the country where I was born, but I love it and miss it with all my heart, and love visiting. Why? Because it's going home.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 7, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> I've always kind of wondered: what exactly is a 'caucasian'?
> 
> I don't think it has much to do with the Caucasus.


from cauica/corsica ??


----------



## reallyoldhippy (Jan 7, 2005)

My mum's name is Jones. Can I join?
(can't be arsed to read the thread)


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 7, 2005)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> The Scots? You really don't have a clue do you Canuck?



I do have a clue. And I'd even say that the scots are closer to the title, having been sold into semi bondage and all by their english masters during different periods of history.


----------



## Karac (Jan 7, 2005)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> This is a complete change of argument. You can have a sense of nationality, culture and belonging without any "racial" or genetic factors coming into it. Don't you consider Colin Jackson, for example, as Welsh?


I went to school with Colin Jackson and hes as Welsh as Welsh can be-perhaps even Welsher than that.


----------



## diond (Jan 7, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> I do have a clue. And I'd even say that the scots are closer to the title, having been sold into semi bondage and all by their english masters during different periods of history.


Bondage? Damn, me and Kirsty Young were several periods too late in our destiny.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 7, 2005)

diond said:
			
		

> Bondage? Damn, me and Kirsty Young were several periods too late in our destiny.


Don't tell me there's parts of your history you're unaware of?


----------



## 888 (Jan 7, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> I do have a clue. And I'd even say that the scots are closer to the title, having been sold into semi bondage and all by their english masters during different periods of history.



During feudalism, the "english" were also sold into bondage by their english masters. And when not being sold by their english masters, the scots were being sold by their scottish masters.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 7, 2005)

888 said:
			
		

> During feudalism, the "english" were also sold into bondage by their english masters. And when not being sold by their english masters, the scots were being sold by their scottish masters.



Who's talking about feudal times?

I'm talking about the Highland Clearances.



In the last 270 years, more than a quarter million indigenous people were forced off their ancestral lands, burned out of their homes, sold into slavery, and forcibly assimilated into a foreign culture. But these were not Native Americans, or black Africans, or Jews; these were the white residents of the Scottish Highlands. Their crime: Occupying land that others coveted. 

http://www.yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/articles/cries.htm


----------



## Main Street (Jan 7, 2005)

*English welshman*

I haven't read the whole thread and I aint going to but no an English man and a Welsh man are the same race.

However a person can claim to be discriminated in the workplace on account of nationality. The GMB Union publishes a good employment law book which details discrimination in the work place and there is a case in there which refers to discrimination between a English person and a Scot.

I don't believe that poking fun at a welshman is racist but it is prejudiced and also ignorance on the part of the person making the comments.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 7, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> Who's talking about feudal times?
> 
> I'm talking about the Highland Clearances.
> 
> ...



My understanding is that the vast majority of the landlords who cleared the Highlands were themselves Scots.  There was a lretter about this in the Guardian recently

_It had been centuries since the clan system had operated "for the good of the community": capitalism was already entrenched well before 1746. Cameron of Lochiel, who threatened to burn out his tenants unless they joined him in rebellion, had business interests in the West Indies. The Highland chiefs themselves were the most enthusiastic "clearers" of their estates. _ 

Here


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 7, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> I'm talking about the Highland Clearances.


What any amount of history doesn't prove is you claim about the status of Scottish people in the UK today. Have you ever been to the UK? To Scotland? Do you know any Scottish people? Have you got any evidence to support your claim about the status of Scottish people in wider British society? Or are you just talking a load of shite that you have dreamt up in an effort to annoy people and/or be controversial? Often when you talk about the UK you do really come across like someone who doesn't have a clue. 10 out of 10 for trying though and being vaguely interested. However maybe you should try to find information sources that aren't just some 10th-generation North American fighting mythical battles in an effort to recreate a never-never culture as some kind of Mel Gibson comforter blanket.


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Jan 8, 2005)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> What any amount of history doesn't prove is you claim about the status of Scottish people in the UK today. Have you ever been to the UK? To Scotland? Do you know any Scottish people? Have you got any evidence to support your claim about the status of Scottish people in wider British society? Or are you just talking a load of shite that you have dreamt up in an effort to annoy people and/or be controversial? Often when you talk about the UK you do really come across like someone who doesn't have a clue. 10 out of 10 for trying though and being vaguely interested. However maybe you should try to find information sources that aren't just some 10th-generation North American fighting mythical battles in an effort to recreate a never-never culture as some kind of Mel Gibson comforter blanket.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 8, 2005)

It's always the same old ad nauseam isn't it? Do some posters not realise that simply repeating the mantra that Welsh is not a 'valid' race due to the mixing of genes over centuries is utterly meaningless to those who think they are? Try telling me, or any of the other Welsh posters on these boards that we should really stop bothering with this 'pretense' and simply subsume ourselves to an overarching 'Britishness'. You may be unsurprised that it is extremely unlikely to happen.

It doesn't matter what criteria you, as a non-Welsh onlooker, set for Welshness, it doesn't alter how we regard ourselves.

Next point - I believe the title of the thread enquires as to whether insulting the Welsh language, and by implication Welshness and the Welsh, is racist. Well of course it bloody is! Can posters not see that, already, a number of people have been offended by remarks on this thread because they belive them to be derogatory towards their ethnicity - to wit by racist remarks. Surely it should not be the responsibility of those offended to 'get a sense of humour', 'get over it' or 'remove the chips from their shoulders', it should be the responsibility of those who consider making anti-Welsh comments to tone down their language and reappraise their attitudes if it is obvious that certain remarks cause offence. 

Insulting the Welsh language is specifically racist. The amount of times I have heard comments to the tune of 'It sounds like gibberish', 'It sounds like they're always arguing', 'It sounds really stupid' and 'Why do people bother speaking it anyway'. I don't feel that I need spend long going into the underlying attitudes that comments such as this exempify - they denote a lack of respect for our culture and nationality and an implicit superiority (our language is more intelligent than yours, ergo you're all thick inbreds). those who still don't get it should do some research into the Blue Books scandal.

I have to agree with Ddraig - we endure constant smug superciliousness about our race/nationality/ethnicity and are then told that we need to lighten up when we have the temerity to take offence. Well sorry, some of us are not prepared to do so at all times. Expect us to bite back occasionally.


----------



## Oxpecker (Jan 8, 2005)

*Bendeus*

Well said.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

Chwarae teg, bendeus!


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 8, 2005)

Good stuff, Bendeus. When I visited a friend of mine in Lampeter a few years ago, I was really impressed to hear people speaking Welsh as a matter of course in the streets, shops, cafes etc. Not something that happens much in the Irish case (though the relevant language there is Irish, not Welsh).


----------



## tobyjug (Jan 8, 2005)

bendeus said:
			
		

> .
> 
> I have to agree with Ddraig - we endure constant smug superciliousness about our race/nationality/ethnicity and are then told that we need to lighten up when we have the temerity to take offence. Well sorry, some of us are not prepared to do so at all times. Expect us to bite back occasionally.



Can anyone explain the very overt anti-Welshness at some motorcycle rallies I go to. (People not wanting to pitch a tent near any Welsh motorcyclists ect)
It is about the only really overt racism I come across.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 8, 2005)

Is that really anti-Welsh, or just anti- particular bikers who happen to be Welsh?

There seemed to be a big biking scene around Lampeter . . .


----------



## tobyjug (Jan 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Is that really anti-Welsh, or just anti- particular bikers who happen to be Welsh?
> 
> There seemed to be a big biking scene around Lampeter . . .




Anti Welsh, not particular bikers.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 8, 2005)

Hmmm, OK. Maybe you should ask the anti-Welshists themselves?


----------



## Hollis (Jan 8, 2005)

bendeus said:
			
		

> It's always the same old ad nauseam isn't it? Do some posters not realise that simply repeating the mantra that Welsh is not a 'valid' race due to the mixing of genes over centuries is utterly meaningless to those who think they are? Try telling me, or any of the other Welsh posters on these boards that we should really stop bothering with this 'pretense' and simply subsume ourselves to an overarching 'Britishness'. You may be unsurprised that it is extremely unlikely to happen.
> 
> It doesn't matter what criteria you, as a non-Welsh onlooker, set for Welshness, it doesn't alter how we regard ourselves.
> 
> ...



What aload of crap!

We have places like London with 100s of different ethnic groups, nationalities, migrants... and then we have the precious Welsh wittering on about the terrible fucking oppresion.. and ernie constantly analysing the composition of his gene pool..

Get real!


----------



## tobyjug (Jan 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Hmmm, OK. Maybe you should ask the anti-Welshists themselves?



As I am only 5 feet 3 inches tall and the anti-Welshists have a tendency to be built like and look like Chewbacca and with a similar level of communication skills this is not really an option.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 8, 2005)

deleted.


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 8, 2005)

bendeus, what is it about someone that makes them Welsh? Do you consider Colin Jackson Welsh for example? Why do you want to buy into the idea of "race"? Are you saying that someone's so-called "race" is determined by the language they speak? I can understand and agree with a lot of your comments about discrimination against Welsh culture, but I don't think that the terms "race" and "racism" really do apply. 

And just in case you tell me that my argument is rubbish becuase I am not Welsh, here it is from the pen of a Welshman:

Language is not a racist issue 
by Rhobat Bryn Jones (a lecturer in the department of Welsh at Cardiff University)



> The fact of the ability to speak a particular language is no indication of race whatsoever. And the idea that belonging to a paricular race is an indication of a particular linguistic ability is also equally ludicrous. All racial groups throughout the world possess a myriad of languages that they put to a variety of uses. To say that to discriminate on the basis of language is a matter of race is a clear nonsense...
> 
> ...there is no irrefutable connection between a person's linguistic ability and their nationality, cultural background or race. The issue is one of language per se...
> 
> ...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 8, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> What aload of crap!
> 
> We have places like London with 100s of different ethnic groups, nationalities, migrants... and then we have the precious Welsh wittering on about the terrible fucking oppresion.. and ernie constantly analysing the composition of his gene pool..
> 
> Get real!



You haven't got a fucking clue.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

Something must be rankling these Anti-Celticists like Hollis, Teejay and Harrison Slade - perhaps they are jealous of our heritage?


----------



## Belushi (Jan 8, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Something must be rankling these Anti-Celticists like Hollis, Teejay and Harrison Slade - perhaps they are jealous of our heritage?



I dont think Teejay is so much an anti-celt as much as he's got a bee in his bonnet about the proper use of the term race.

I think poor Harrison got a kicking at some point in the valleys


----------



## HarrisonSlade (Jan 8, 2005)

Most of us sneer at English culture. Britain is full of self deprecation all over the place. As a mackem, I am constantly ribbed about my "Why Aye Man" accent, even though elecution knocked that out of my when I was a wee nipper. I am also ribbed about car crime (although I have dabbled in the past) and unemployment. I'm sure that proud Welsh Nationalists (especially ones who happen to live in London, England) can grow up and raise a smile at jokes about leaks and the fact that their language and place names are full of "L's" "Y's" and no vowels.


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 8, 2005)

Funky_monks said:
			
		

> Isn't all this 'genetic makeup' stuff kinda missing the point? The fact is the Welsh do have a different cultural identity, one often casually and jokingly dismissed by the kind of people that would have an anyeurism if other cultures were made the butt of said joke.




Hurraaaahh. Hes got it.
What makes it all the more offensive is that those same people say 'you arent a race' therefore its ok, fair game etc but its not. Its highly offensive yet we arent allowed to feel offended by it becuase , to them its FUNEEEEEE
If its not to do with our skin colour becuase lots of us dont have a different coloured skin or 'race' ( which as weve seen is arguable)then we arent allowed to find it offensive and if we object we are touchy, lacking a sense of humour etc but as Ed and others said.. Its the intent with which its done/said which makes much of it offensive.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

I'm sure you can grow up, Slade and raise a smile about jokes about poofs, faggots and homos! Can't you?


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 8, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Something must be rankling these Anti-Celticists like Hollis, Teejay and Harrison Slade - perhaps they are jealous of our heritage?


Are you calling Rhobat Bryn Jones an 'anti-celticist'? Maybe you should read the article first? Language is not a racist issue


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

What do you call two Scottish queers?

Ben Doon and Phil McCracken


Ho ho ho!

Two Irish ones?

Patrick FitzGerald and Gerald FitzPatrick

Two Welsh ones?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> Are you calling Rhobat Bryn Jones an 'anti-celticist'? Maybe you should read the article first? Language is not a racist issue



No - I'm calling you one. I couldn't give a stuff what that Dic Sion Dafydd writes, he's part of the Anglo-Welsh Establishment.


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 8, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> ...those same people say 'you arent a race' therefore its ok, fair game etc but its not...


I haven't said anti-Welsh bigotry is fair game. It isn't. I am taking issue with the term "race" and "racism".


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 8, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> ...he's part of the Anglo-Welsh Establishment.


Why do you say that?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

He's a university lecturer - do keep up.


----------



## Oxpecker (Jan 8, 2005)

*"Something must be rankling these Anti-Celticists like Hollis, Teejay and Harrison Slade - perhaps they are jealous of our heritage?"*

*"I think poor Harrison got a kicking at some point in the valleys" * 

Well, you two need wonder no longer, here it is from the horse's mouth, sladey was abused as a lad and had all his self worth and identity "knocked out" of him. He's obviously insanely jealous of any group of people who are able to take pride in their own identity and culture.

Poor lamb   




			
				HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> I am constantly ribbed about my "Why Aye Man" accent, even though elecution knocked that out of my when I was a wee nipper.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 8, 2005)

cheers bendeus - top post and LMH / mwgdrwg for re-enforcing the points  again...


some more typical english replies


> I'm sure that proud Welsh Nationalists (especially ones who happen to live in London, England) can *grow up * and raise a smile at jokes about leaks and the fact that their language and place names are full of "L's" "Y's" and no vowels.





> *What aload of crap!*
> 
> We have places like London with 100s of different ethnic groups, nationalities, migrants... and then we have the precious Welsh wittering on about the terrible fucking oppresion.. and ernie constantly analysing the composition of his gene pool..
> 
> ...


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

Both Giggs and Jackson tested over 50% Celt in the DNA testing - there was a poster up in the waiting room of the place in Caernarfon.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 8, 2005)

oh yeah! 
forgot about that, found out earlier that my sister had that done a while ago
apparently 80% Welsh 15% Irish and 5% Bretton

presuming i'm the same - wooohoo


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

ddraig said:
			
		

> oh yeah!
> forgot about that, found out earlier that my sister had that done a while ago
> apparently 80% Welsh 15% Irish and 5% Bretton
> 
> presuming i'm the same - wooohoo




100% Racially Pure Celt! - well done matey, congratulations! Makes my 15% Euskadi seem a bit - dirty....


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Makes my 15% Euskadi seem a bit - dirty....


going soft on eta, ern?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> going soft on eta, ern?



Gori ETA! Gori ETA!

No way - but I'd rather be 100% Celt! You can do the test by post you know - send in a lock of hair.


----------



## Nemo (Jan 8, 2005)

Out of interest, why the obsession with having your 'purity' tested? It's all as meaningless as the way Apartheid South Africa messed about with pencils and mixed-race kids' hair.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Gori ETA! Gori ETA!
> 
> No way - but I'd rather be 100% Celt! You can do the test by post you know - send in a lock of hair.


whose hair did you send?


----------



## Belushi (Jan 8, 2005)

Nemo said:
			
		

> Out of interest, why the obsession with having your 'purity' tested? It's all as meaningless as the way Apartheid South Africa messed about with pencils and mixed-race kids' hair.



Its much more efficient than the old days when we used to have to measure each others heads with calipers etc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Its much more efficient than the old days when we used to have to measure each others heads with calipers etc.


like this, you mean?


----------



## Nemo (Jan 8, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Its much more efficient than the old days when we used to have to measure each others heads with calipers etc.



That was probably more 'scientific' though.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 8, 2005)

I'm hoping that once everyone has had the tests and we've all got our racial credentials maybe we could ask the Ed to make a minimum of 50% Celtic Blood a prerequisite of posting on the Cymru forum.  What does everyone think?


----------



## Nemo (Jan 8, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> I'm hoping that once everyone has had the tests and we've all got our racial credentials maybe we could ask the Ed to make a minimum of 50% Celtic Blood a prerequisite of posting on the Cymru forum.  What does everyone think?



I doubt that that is actually as uncommon as some people are suggesting.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

d'you mean Celtick as in the spl; or Celtick as in cornish and breton types?


----------



## Belushi (Jan 8, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> d'you mean Celtick as in the spl; or Celtick as in cornish and breton types?



Both are acceptable PM, its only the Teutonic types were hoping to keep out.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

ern,

cheers for the pm!

using my last stamp to send the sample to that company!


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 8, 2005)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> I haven't said anti-Welsh bigotry is fair game. It isn't. I am taking issue with the term "race" and "racism".



But those are exactly the 'excuses' that people use to rip the piss out of welsh people and what were told when we object. Its ok, you arent a race therefore its not racist... whatever terminology you use its about being offensive to someone becuase of their origins. Not on IMO and it is Tantamount to racism, particularly if discimination based on these Oh so hillarious stereotypes follows.. such as welsh people being thick etc


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

i like taking the piss out of that anne robinson.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

Celtic Race:

Cymru
Alba
Eire
Kernow
Breizh
Mannin
Galicia 

There are many Celts left over in Cumberland, and possible in S.Yorkshire (Elmet) and Devon, however their genes are likely to have been polluted by Nordic and Saxon DNA.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

does that company tell you what portion yr saxon or hun or whatnot as well as celtick?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> ern,
> 
> cheers for the pm!
> 
> using my last stamp to send the sample to that company!



Make sure you fill in the form in Welsh or another Celtic language though - Irish is fine. They don't process forms written in the Bastard Language.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

i'll have to print another copy.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> does that company tell you what portion yr saxon or hun or whatnot as well as celtick?



Yes they tell you about the origins of your non-Celt genes - in my case Basque, but they will tell you about Saxon, Chinee, Jew, Hottentot and so on....


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

what about mohammedan?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> what about mohammedan?



Contrary to what the Trots think, that's not a race, that's a superstition. Why - are you part Arab, Turkman, Persian or something like that?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

nah, just curious.

i can't wait to see what they say! 

i hope it's nothing too awful. 

how long did it take for yr results to come through?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

The did it for my workmate in a few days, but you can get results by email within 48 hours.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

sor-ted!


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2005)

Fingers crossed that y'r grandparents never cavorted with some Crown Forces occupying soldiers!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2005)

nah.


----------



## Nemo (Jan 8, 2005)

Am I allowed to be insulted that you regard my DNA as 'polluted?'


----------



## In Bloom (Jan 8, 2005)

What's the name of this company?  I'm really curious now...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 8, 2005)

HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> Most of us sneer at English culture. Britain is full of self deprecation all over the place. As a mackem, I am constantly ribbed about my "Why Aye Man" accent, even though elecution knocked that out of my when I was a wee nipper. I am also ribbed about car crime (although I have dabbled in the past) and unemployment. I'm sure that proud Welsh Nationalists (especially ones who happen to live in London, England) can grow up and raise a smile at jokes about leaks and the fact that their language and place names are full of "L's" "Y's" and no vowels.



The old 'get a sense of humour line'......

Of course we can have a laugh and even take the piss out of each other. It's just that sly and nasty comments can get bundled with the harmless jokes, and when people repeat the joke a million times it's hard to simply always crack a smile. 

You sad mackem bastard  (my missus is a Geordie)


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 9, 2005)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> What any amount of history doesn't prove is you claim about the status of Scottish people in the UK today. Have you ever been to the UK? To Scotland? Do you know any Scottish people? Have you got any evidence to support your claim about the status of Scottish people in wider British society? Or are you just talking a load of shite that you have dreamt up in an effort to annoy people and/or be controversial? Often when you talk about the UK you do really come across like someone who doesn't have a clue. 10 out of 10 for trying though and being vaguely interested. However maybe you should try to find information sources that aren't just some 10th-generation North American fighting mythical battles in an effort to recreate a never-never culture as some kind of Mel Gibson comforter blanket.



Do you have any understanding of the status of blacks in US culture? The fact that one's forebears were slaves doesn't make the individual a slave or even someone of diminished standing, but there's no denying where you're from.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 9, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> What do you call two Scottish queers?
> 
> Ben Doon and Phil McCracken



I thought it was Phillip McAvity.


----------



## Wess (Jan 9, 2005)

> C: Faint o athrawon prifysgol sydd rhaid am newid bwlb golau?
> A: Pedwar cant ac un. Un i wneud y gwaith, a phedwar cant i sefyll mewn pwllgor yn Aberystwyth i gael gair am "ffilament".


----------



## Wess (Jan 9, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> I bet the Maori in your home country feel the same.
> 
> Add this arse to the 'Racist Saxon Pig' List.



Considering the "Maori"...are Polynesions that landed in New Zealand causing the original inhabitants of the island/s to become extinct....



> The Polynesian navigator Kupe has been credited with the discovery of New Zealand in 950 AD. He named it Aotearoa (Land of the Long White Cloud). Centuries later, around 1350 AD, a great migration of people from Kupe's homeland of Hawaiki followed his navigational instructions and sailed to New Zealand, eventually supplanting or mixing with previous residents.


----------



## dilute micro (Jan 9, 2005)

ddraig said:
			
		

> oh yeah!
> forgot about that, found out earlier that my sister had that done a while ago
> apparently 80% Welsh 15% Irish and 5% Bretton
> 
> presuming i'm the same - wooohoo


How was this 100% found out?


----------



## dilute micro (Jan 9, 2005)

Nemo said:
			
		

> Am I allowed to be insulted that you regard my DNA as 'polluted?'


I'm not sure ernesto knows what he's talking about.  I haven't read this thread much.  But I remember reading once that the 'control' celtic group was taken from Ireland and not england or wales due to ...huh..um.....a chance of the pollution factor.

And I'd like to know more about these resolutions.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jan 9, 2005)

holteman said:
			
		

> ...._coloured_ friends.....




In view of the rest of your post, I thought you might like to know that 'coloured' is an extremely outdated and inappropriate word (which colour would that be exactly? Oh - just _not white_....).


----------



## rorymac (Jan 9, 2005)

mwgdrwg said:
			
		

> (my missus is a Geordie)


I'd never marry a Geordie burd. Every one of em is a wrongun. 
You've got the whole of the rest of your life ahead of you mwgdrwg.
That name aint right BTW 
Socks x


----------



## jd (Jan 9, 2005)

Racial purity.  How utterly fucking pathetic.

It would make me ashamed of my Welsh genes, if Welshness had anything to do with it.


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 9, 2005)

I couldnt give two shits what my genetic make up is. I consider myself welsh and dont believe in degrees of welshness. I was born here and raised here by two english parents ( adoptive) and still feel welsh.( my mother has never stood during the english national anthem becuase she anti monarchy but redily stands during the welsh one)
Ive formed my own welsh identity and what I feel is important connected with that which makes me no more or less welsh than a first language welsh speaker or someone whos had their DNA analysed or who blew up holiday cottages or anything else whcih may 'prove' their welshness according to anyone elses angenda and sod anyone who wants to challenge me on it, to me their views make no difference to me.
To start getting into % of celtic origin is just pathetic.

At the same time nobody english or otherwise has any right to tell me Im not welsh or that welsh idenity isnt real or valid just becuase it suits their agenda (racist jokes etc) to say so nor to tell me I have no right to be offended by their ignorant rantings/comments in defence of themselves


----------



## Julie (Jan 10, 2005)

Bonfirelight said:
			
		

> if i'm doing an impression of someone i'll attempt their accent. simple as. There's no malice and no harm and so no racism surely?



I think, at the core, an argument could be made that it has racist overtones.... 








If you were being a precious wanker that is...


----------



## Julie (Jan 10, 2005)

fucthest8 said:
			
		

> To be serious for a sec, not like me I know, but the whole tribalism thing just annoys me. _Yes_ I know it's hardwired into us _yes_ I understand it's all about a sense of belonging yada yada yada ... but surely we're developed enough to at least _try_ to break our programming now?
> 
> So much of what I read on here  -the whole tiresome fucking chav thing, the whole Welsh/Scottish/Irish/English thing, whatever, just seems to be driven by this need to categorise, subdivide and demonise.
> 
> Fucks me right off.



I completely agree, and it pisses me off too. Ahhh, but will it ever cease? I doubt it. Human nature (as far as I can tell) suggests we want/need/desire/whatever to "belong" to a group. Like race, we do it with something as "inane" as a football club. And I'm as guilty of this as the next person. We have those who "belong" (those *in*siders) and those who don't (the *out*siders). The sub-disciplines of psychology such as evolutionary and social psychology comment about this in rather D & M terms. Simply out, they suggest it derives from the fear of being alone, being one out. And, subsequently, the greater fear of being "taken over" (i.e. ultimately erased) by the other group.  

A harmless example might include my bagging the bloke who supports Manly (with great affection of course  ). However, taken to its extreme, we have the Ku Klux Klan and other white supremacist groups. 

Hmm... time for a cuppa....


----------



## kakuma (Jan 10, 2005)

i dont do that, but certain types of posters, ones who havnt been here as long as me, tend to be bringing that element into the boards

havnt read the thread but i do find it strange that the welsh nationalist party is supposed to be progressive

sorry


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 10, 2005)

bendeus said:
			
		

> It's always the same old ad nauseam isn't it? Do some posters not realise that simply repeating the mantra that Welsh is not a 'valid' race due to the mixing of genes over centuries is utterly meaningless to those who think they are? Try telling me, or any of the other Welsh posters on these boards that we should really stop bothering with this 'pretense' and simply subsume ourselves to an overarching 'Britishness'. You may be unsurprised that it is extremely unlikely to happen.
> 
> It doesn't matter what criteria you, as a non-Welsh onlooker, set for Welshness, it doesn't alter how we regard ourselves.
> 
> ...



sorry this is rubbish but nice to know you are a nationalist please to see you are proud of something which you have no fucking choice over ...  

how about it doens't fucking matter where you are born or what culture you are from it's about how you act and react to people now that is important...

the intent is everything if the intent is to belittle or ridicule you then calling you a fucking prick is as bad as calling you taffy or nigger or anyother insult (the object of insults to offend you, see) If however you are friends with no intent insult or ridicule whatsoever then there is no insult to percieve is there unless you constantly wander round with a big chip on your shoulder, in which case the so called greivences you are citing are the same as saying is it cos i is welsh ?  is it fuck ... it's cos your a nationalistic twat...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 10, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> He's a university lecturer - do keep up.




in which case aren't you a welsh non welsh speaking teacher (lecuturer by default) also part of that same cabal???


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 10, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> But those are exactly the 'excuses' that people use to rip the piss out of welsh people and what were told when we object. Its ok, you arent a race therefore its not racist... whatever terminology you use its about being offensive to someone becuase of their origins. Not on IMO and it is Tantamount to racism, particularly if discimination based on these Oh so hillarious stereotypes follows.. such as welsh people being thick etc




sure it's the same as beign discriminated against based on your skin tone or the fact that it was only in the later 3rd of the last centry you were even considered by the west to actually be human enough to sit on a bus seat or worship or .... fuck it you're wrong and your argument is an insult to every single person who has ever actually experinced racism period...

beign stupid is not a cultural trait nor is it something to be proud of the fact you wish you could cover your stupidity under the terms of racism is your own problem please don't be so disengenious to all those who have suffered real racism and all of the problems and pain this has caused to stick you poor me attiude falg to their mast, this smacks of pure selfish ignorence...

try sitting in a room having your heratiage discussed and have the nice white people justify whether you were smart enough to sit with the other nice white people purely based on where you were born or the culture you came from ...

you complaints are nothing short of glorification of pariahism and self serving, wishful thinking that you too could be tarred with the put upon brush to justify your own inadicquaces... get over your ego and stop deminisng the very real effects of racism on the real suffers of it...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 10, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Contrary to what the Trots think, that's not a race, that's a superstition. Why - are you part Arab, Turkman, Persian or something like that?




i don'tthink you can comment since most arabb tribes were nomadic and didn't have concepts of state or nation until this was imposed on them by western thought and literally drawing lines inthe sand to divide up the land... we had towns we had oasis and we had citidals the only real exception to this was eygpt but then they technically aren't arabs...


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 10, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> try sitting in a room having your heratiage discussed and have the nice white people justify whether you were smart enough to sit with the other nice white people purely based on where you were born or the culture you came from ....



Thats precisely what happens to welsh people though when people make derrogatory comments about the welsh.
Ive sat in a goup of people in London being told to 'speak up' speak properly becuase of my accent ( which IS tantamount to racism, sorry its rude and discrminatory becuase those people couldnt be bothered to listen properly.Yet if that happened to someone asian people would be shocked)
Ive also been a member on message boards where ALL the anti welsh 'jokes' have been trotted out by various people who used exactly the same justifications to do so. Welsh people are thick, not as sophisticated, have nothing to offer etc. Someone went as far as to say what use are welsh people anyway ( al la Anne Robinson) and suggested that children born in communities in wales should be anglicised by removing them to give them a better life. YOu wouldnt realise the reaction those sort of comments provoke simply by virtue of being english ( when thats taken alone) becuase you wont ever have suffered such anti english feeling becuase of course the english are superiour ( or are presented as being so). English superiority in the media is accepted (such as everyone being suprised when people here gpot upset about the anne robinson comments... if she had used the word asian, romany, blacks,chines etc there would have been uproar)

Many many welsh people do feel a strong sense of race and are rightly upset and offended by the discrimination which comes becuase of it. You used those words yourself "Your own inadequacies" what inadequacies exactly? You know very little about me personally so I take it you are doiung exactly the same as racists... I am welsh , therefore Im not allowed to be upset by people presenting and using stereotypes about me and my family and friends becuase we are, by nature ( according to you and yours) inadequate and so should just shut up about it.

A quick search of google reveals that people get disciminated against for jobs etc based upon their regional accent ( and that includes english people not from middle england) 

But to say NO thats wrong you wont do this unchallenged ( whether it be jokes, discimination) borne from plain middle england ignorance is perfectly acceptable and when people are disciminated against and have to put up with the same shit that people get for having black skin etc and we do whether you like it or not form people who are so inclined.

 Nobody has said ALL english people treat others this way, nobody has said that every person we meet is derogarory and discriminatory but some are. In the same way that some people believe its fair game to treat other groups of people differently accoding to their accent, skin tone, religion or cultural background.
How can you justify trying to prevent us challenging it? If you dont challenge ignorance and discrimination then it wont go away by itself. For decades, as you rightly say, other groups of people were told they couldnt challenge discimination, just as you seem to be saying now, that we should keep quiet becuase it doesnt exist, but it does and it IS tantamount to racism ( for the record I feel the same about english people who have been overlooked for jobs in wales becuase they arent welsh speakers)
Its wrong and offensive and by saying it doesnt exist becuase you say so wont make it stop  and wont make it acceptable to us


----------



## layabout (Jan 10, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Thats precisely what happens to welsh people though when people make derrogatory comments about the welsh.



And that never happens to English..........



> Ive sat in a goup of people in London being told to 'speak up' speak properly becuase of my accent ( which IS tantamount to racism, sorry its rude and discrminatory becuase those people couldnt be bothered to listen properly.



Would have to have been there. You may have spoke clearly.......you may have not......



> Yet if that happened to someone asian people would be shocked)



Depens........if the asian spoke clearly or not.......



> Ive also been a member on message boards where ALL the anti welsh 'jokes' have been trotted out by various people who used exactly the same justifications to do so.



We would need to see such 'jokes' and the context they are used in. 



> Welsh people are thick, not as sophisticated, have nothing to offer etc. Someone went as far as to say what use are welsh people anyway ( al la Anne Robinson) and suggested that children born in communities in wales should be anglicised by removing them to give them a better life.



Eh? Please expand on that. 




> YOu wouldnt realise the reaction those sort of comments provoke simply by virtue of being english ( when thats taken alone) becuase you wont ever have suffered such anti english feeling becuase of course the english are superiour ( or are presented as being so).



Again please expand. I've seen a lot of anti-English hostility in Western Scotland, Glasgow in particular. 



> English superiority in the media is accepted (such as everyone being suprised when people here gpot upset about the anne robinson comments... if she had used the word asian, romany, blacks,chines etc there would have been uproar)



Who is "everyone" ? 



> Many many welsh people do feel a strong sense of race and are rightly upset and offended by the discrimination which comes becuase of it.



Yes in England, that's called racism. Are you saying there are no black Welsh people? No asian Welsh people? If I was to say England has a strong sense of pride in it's mainly white race, I would be accused of being a racist. 



> You used those words yourself "Your own inadequacies" what inadequacies exactly? You know very little about me personally so I take it you are doiung exactly the same as racists... I am welsh , therefore Im not allowed to be upset by people presenting and using stereotypes about me and my family and friends becuase we are, by nature ( according to you and yours) inadequate and so should just shut up about it.



I'll leave you and GLC to discuss that one.......



> A quick search of google reveals that people get disciminated against for jobs etc based upon their regional accent ( and that includes english people not from middle england)



I bet it includes people from middle England as well! 



> But to say NO thats wrong you wont do this unchallenged ( whether it be jokes, discimination) borne from plain middle england ignorance is perfectly acceptable and when people are disciminated against and have to put up with the same shit that people get for having black skin etc and we do whether you like it or not form people who are so inclined.



"plain middle England ignorance" ???? 

Doesn't sound right......sounds a bit bigoted to me........




> Nobody has said ALL english people treat others this way, nobody has said that every person we meet is derogarory and discriminatory but some are. In the same way that some people believe its fair game to treat other groups of people differently accoding to their accent, skin tone, religion or cultural background.



Really? Most English? Some English? Do you think us English are worse at discriminating against people than other nationalities? 



> How can you justify trying to prevent us challenging it? If you dont challenge ignorance and discrimination then it wont go away by itself.



I think everyone would agree with that bit....however.......



> For decades, as you rightly say, other groups of people were told they couldnt challenge discimination, just as you seem to be saying now, that we should keep quiet becuase it doesnt exist



I'll remember that statement the next time I ever post up a story about a 30 something, white English bloke being discriminated against. When the liberals come out saying "it didn't happen, it can't happen, it doesn't happen" - You'll be at my side shouting "Hey everyone, stop telling Layabout to be quiet and that it doesn't exist!!"



> , but it does and it IS tantamount to racism ( for the record I feel the same about english people who have been overlooked for jobs in wales becuase they arent welsh speakers)



Really? What about English speakers being turned down for jobs in Holland because they can't speak Dutch? 



> Its wrong and offensive and by saying it doesnt exist becuase you say so wont make it stop  and wont make it acceptable to us



Fair comment, but somehow, if I every post up any discrimination I have to put up with as a white English male, I can't see too many people agreeing with me when I say "ts wrong and offensive and by saying it doesnt exist becuase you say so wont make it stop  and wont make it acceptable to us"
- I'll just be called a trolling cunt and my thread would have a 7/10 chance of ending up in the bin.


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 10, 2005)

I'm sorry, but is this thread really still going or am I tripping again?

PMSL.


----------



## Thumper Browne (Jan 10, 2005)

layabout said:
			
		

> I'll leave you and GLC to discuss that one.......



What is that supposed to mean?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 10, 2005)

So much bile and straw men but here we go ...




			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Thats precisely what happens to welsh people though when people make derrogatory comments about the welsh.



What's Precisely what which people make what comments be clear be precise don't set up strawmen to argue against..





			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Ive sat in a goup of people in London being told to 'speak up' speak properly becuase of my accent



I have no idea what a goup is however may i ask why you would actively sit with people who offended you with out A) challenging their behaviour or B) walking of indisgust... Sitting there and not doing so will appear to them and condoning their behaviour ....






			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> ( which IS tantamount to racism, sorry its rude and discrminatory becuase those people couldnt be bothered to listen properly.Yet if that happened to someone asian people would be shocked)



It's not tantmount to racism, welsh are not a race they are a culture, banging on nailing your colours to someone else mast still doesn't make it so, this is not to say that people are rude to you because of the culture you come from or ther accent you have or where you are born but this doens't equal racism period...





			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Ive also been a member on message boards where ALL the anti welsh 'jokes' have been trotted out by various people who used exactly the same justifications to do so. Welsh people are thick, not as sophisticated, have nothing to offer etc. Someone went as far as to say what use are welsh people anyway ( al la Anne Robinson) and suggested that children born in communities in wales should be anglicised by removing them to give them a better life.



Why were you still in a place where you felt hostility you can choose not to go to the message board which is openly hostile to you or not the comments they make are insults deal with them either you say no i do not wish to be insulted by these morans anymore i shall no longer post here or you weigh tup the postitive and the negative of the situation and you make the descsion to stay or go based on whether it's a general consensious or and a small minority .

copntray to your beleif message boards are not real life and you have the option of leaving at any time with ouit sever disruption to you life, this cannot be even slightly compared to say living on a street and having the excriment smeared on your door or swastickers dabed on the walls of your house or any similar such behaviour... you failing to understand the sense of scale or the dispartiy between percived insults via the internet and real life threatening behaviour just goes to show you are grasping at starws to sustain you untantable postition...

we go on...




			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> YOu wouldnt realise the reaction those sort of comments provoke simply by virtue of being english ( when thats taken alone) becuase you wont ever have suffered such anti english feeling becuase of course the english are superiour ( or are presented as being so).



i wouldn't realise the reaction of those sort of comments, wtf do you know the person who i presivousl posted about be sectioned off while the nice white people decided if i could join to lessons with the other white kids was me aged 5 in france, you haven't expeinced any sort of racism now or ever clearlyu from you reducing the plainfacts of real racist actions to mindless wittering and trivialites.  try being an arab in a secular society which lumps lagreians blakcs and arabs all into the same pariah catigory and then decides the level of education you get based on the depth of shade or your skin.... thankfully france has much improved it's act over the last 15 years however this type of discrimination is still very much at the surface to complain that some one takes the piss out of your accent and even attempt to compare it to the level of racism expeinrce by a large percentile of people of all different non white backgrounds accross the world is frankly fractious facistious and plain arrogant... 




			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> English superiority in the media is accepted (such as everyone being suprised when people here gpot upset about the anne robinson comments... if she had used the word asian, romany, blacks,chines etc there would have been uproar)



where is it accepted is it in the strawman world you have set up to knock down there were just as many complaints about anne robinsons comments as there were in jokes... if she had used the word chines she would have been slpped form here to russia and back the correct term is either chinese or asian but we digress the fact that she made those comments is not the topic of disccsuion nor is it a compariable or useful example to express how england as a whole thinks any more than Ron davies is a relable meter with which to gauge the overall feeling for the black commntiy in the uk... to use either as working examples of typical behaviour in the uk speifically in england is to take a disotrted and frankly laughable stance which deserves you to be pilloured for attempting to present the extreme idiocy of certain people as the paridigm of normality, which it blatently isn't....





			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Many many welsh people do feel a strong sense of race and are rightly upset and offended by the discrimination which comes becuase of it.



Then many many welsh people are misplacing their nationalistic ideas and thinking wrongly that nationasim consitutes race which it does not to use this example would be to suggest that the basque region is populated by a seperate race (please expand on this concept that  there are other races with in the sub genius of homosepian and please also highlight where the welsh come in this order...).

Discrimination is not the same a racism although people can be discriminated agains by racists... discimrination by it very nature is showing a bias against or for a certian group/thingh again this doesn't mean it's racist if i show a bias for tea of coffee is that racist if i activly discriminate agains tea for coffee is that racist?? is fuck no more than you can claim that discrimination faced by the welsh is anymore racist like it or lump it what you are disccussing is called discrimination and discriminatory behaviour not racism the fact you'd like to add the gravitas to the discrimination you may or may not percive as experinceing is neither her enor there is does genuine damage to each and everry real victim of racism accross the world who suffer daliy from ignorance intollerence and also from idiots who percive the slightest injustice in their lives as being  a racist act ... (again thus far you have shown little concept of having been discriminated against outside of a few bad words on a message board and seem to be still argueeing straw men rather than a geneinue grevience this is a nationaistic chip on your should rather than any real issue) 






			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> You used those words yourself "Your own inadequacies" what inadequacies exactly? You know very little about me personally so I take it you are doiung exactly the same as racists...



The fact that you are seeking to blame racism, something you have not as we have established experinced for discrimination with in your life shows that you are looking for something other than your owen attitude or failings to blame these are your inadequneces you can take all you weant from that but to accuse me of racism based on this statment shows how lightly you consider the whole concept and also how easly you'd brand some one who idsagrees with you a racist... in this case it truely appears to be a case iof is it cos i is welsh... no it's cos you is an unthinking twat... your orginins have little or nothing to do with this other than an illconcieved education which has you failing to understand the issues with which you are grappleing....




			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> I am welsh , therefore Im not allowed to be upset by people presenting and using stereotypes about me and my family and friends becuase we are, by nature ( according to you and yours) inadequate and so should just shut up about it.



sure get upset by discrimination as we have said there is nothing wrong with this but please don't lump this into the same area as lynchings racial motived beatings, houses beign burned out people being stabbed killed murdered etc becuase you ereally then jsut sshow that you have nosense of sclae or for that matter understanding of the issues....




			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> A quick search of google reveals that people get disciminated against for jobs etc based upon their regional accent ( and that includes english people not from middle england)



a quick search of google also tells me that people eat shit for sexual kicks for a start there is nothing scienctific about searhing google second it is entirely dependent on what terms you place into it equally it could in no way be  even slightly considered a socail barameter capapble of decering the general or sepififc feeling of the population of englanmd that you wish to tar in it's entireity with some racist brush... but do tell me how this is in any way relevlenat to you comments in anything other than some crap you just throw in to justifal and arleady weak and faling argument that oyu are being racial discriminated against.....

cont


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 10, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> But to say NO thats wrong you wont do this unchallenged ( whether it be jokes, discimination) borne from plain middle england ignorance is perfectly acceptable and when people are disciminated against and have to put up with the same shit that people get for having black skin etc and we do whether you like it or not form people who are so inclined.



no one has said you cannot complain about discrimination the problem is when you attempt to characterise it as something it is not ie racism... it doesn't matter if you a 100 friends choose to call a cat a dog it's still a fucking dog deal with it....

as for middle england ignornace firstly if i fit into any catigory it's upper class secondaly  you have the gaul to talk about ignonrence when clearlry you cannot even correctly define the terms under which you are argueing in any other staments other than straw men thridly it is not the same shit as other cultures have to put up with int his contry by a fucking huge contry mile  i reffer you to havign your hoses burned out or being murdered... name callign jsut isn't on the same level if tyou thinkit is you are going tohave real issues later on in lfie when it comes to assesing scale on al manner of things if you have not done so already ....




			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Nobody has said ALL english people treat others this way, nobody has said that every person we meet is derogarory and discriminatory but some are.



yes they have you have repeatedly but then does that not count as you are settng up straw men  derogitory and discriminatory remakrs are not racism however reacist remakrs can be both... it's not an either or situation it works one way but doesn't work in reverse.... 

the some byut not all well this is huge climb down from ealrier on in your post so which is it an over anglisicse nation or only some again these cannot be either or....




			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> In the same way that some people believe its fair game to treat other groups of people differently accoding to their accent, skin tone, religion or cultural background.



no it isn't however you must make allowences for each culture according tot heir own terms and esure that there is an equallit of oppertuntiy frankley this sentence doesn't make sense




			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> How can you justify trying to prevent us challenging it? If you dont challenge ignorance and discrimination then it wont go away by itself.



i can justify the manner in which you challeng it becuase you are using the wrong terminalolgoy to describe issues which are not covered under you terms of refference




			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> For decades, as you rightly say, other groups of people were told they couldnt challenge discimination, just as you seem to be saying now, that we should keep quiet becuase it doesnt exist, but it does and it IS tantamount to racism ( for the record I feel the same about english people who have been overlooked for jobs in wales becuase they arent welsh speakers)



the first part is i no way connected to the second nor can parelles be drawn between the two doing so is an insult to each an every person who has experinced real racism....

stop trying to gain issues you do not have to explain away your own problems it's fuckin disgusting, insulting, rude, arrogant and borders on racist to deny real acts of racism by the platry whingings of a nationalist ....



			
				LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Its wrong and offensive and by saying it doesnt exist becuase you say so wont make it stop  and wont make it acceptable to us


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 10, 2005)

Thumper Browne said:
			
		

> What is that supposed to mean?



it means he's leaving it for me to respond ... keep up


----------



## meurig (Jan 10, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> it means he's leaving it for me to respond ... keep up



I thought he was making an oblique reference to the Goldie Lookin Chain.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 10, 2005)

meurig said:
			
		

> I thought he was making an oblique reference to the Goldie Lookin Chain.




nope io was glc long before they were about  1977 and counting


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2005)

In Bloom said:
			
		

> What's the name of this company?  I'm really curious now...


you might want to consult the faq's strictures on advertising.


----------



## meurig (Jan 10, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> you might want to consult the faq's strictures on advertising.



It's *Reeves and Mortimer's* DNA Testing.


----------



## Thumper Browne (Jan 10, 2005)

meurig said:
			
		

> I thought he was making an oblique reference to the Goldie Lookin Chain.



So did I?


----------



## HarrisonSlade (Jan 10, 2005)

Oxpecker said:
			
		

> *"Something must be rankling these Anti-Celticists like Hollis, Teejay and Harrison Slade - perhaps they are jealous of our heritage?"*
> 
> *"I think poor Harrison got a kicking at some point in the valleys" *
> 
> ...


What's self worth got to do with anything? I think that i'm fucking great, completely unique in thought and action, like everyone has the potential to be, even abusive sheep like yourself. 

Why would I be "insanely jealous" of not wanting to fit into a group? I spent my entire youth trying to lose the people I very quickly became bored with, simply because I always believed there was something much more. Identity is for football gangs and BNP supporters not for free thinking individuals who seek out other cultures rather feel they have to stick with their own. My culture is dogged by depression, violence and intollerance. It is marred by needy skilled men who need to drink to numb the pain that their only interests happen to be their towns history and Daniel O Donnell; and by young men with no positive hope of their own future who feel the need to cause destruction rather than do something that may really interest them. But this is the whole point of community spirit in all cultures. The Government gets a whole bunch of people together, toss them some kind of nostalgia of a by gone age that never happened and then tear the heart out of their community if they start to get to free thinking and "up themselves", thus causing the communities to hate each others guts. 

All pride is segragationalist. Yes ern, i'm also talking about the Gay pride lobby too. Groups can very quickly become mobs, and so far up themselves that they become hostile towards other cultures. I find all hostile cultures laughable: gay culture, Welsh Nationalism, rastafarianism, English Nationalism, Socialists.... etc. 

My identity is my own experience. I am not a number I am a free man.


----------



## meurig (Jan 10, 2005)

HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> I spent my entire youth trying to lose the people I very quickly became bored with, simply because I always believed there was something much more.
> 
> My identity is my own experience. I am not a number I am a free man.



Vain? Moi?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 10, 2005)

He's an arse.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 10, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Something must be rankling these Anti-Celticists like Hollis, Teejay and Harrison Slade - perhaps they are jealous of our heritage?




 

All those family daytrips to Weston-super-Mare took their toll..  Looking across the Bristol Channel, past Flat Holme and Steep Holme to the bright lights of Penarth & Barry, in my heart-of-hearts.. I always knew... I wanted to be Welsh.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 10, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> All those family daytrips to Weston-super-Mare took their toll..  Looking across the Bristol Channel, past Flat Holme and Steep Holme to the bright lights of Penarth & Barry, in my heart-of-hearts.. I always knew... I wanted to be Welsh.



You could have plastic surgery and a full organ and blood transplant.


----------



## meurig (Jan 10, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> All those family daytrips to Weston-super-Mare took their toll..  Looking across the Bristol Channel, past Flat Holme and Steep Holme to the bright lights of Penarth & Barry, in my heart-of-hearts.. I always knew... I wanted to be Welsh.



See doesn't it feel better now you've got it off your chest?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 10, 2005)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> Are you calling Rhobat Bryn Jones an 'anti-celticist'? Maybe you should read the article first? Language is not a racist issue



So you've managed to dig up one Welshman who proves your point and therefore feel justified in continuinig to make it. Magnificent. Don't expect me to agree though


----------



## bendeus (Jan 10, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> What aload of crap!
> 
> We have places like London with 100s of different ethnic groups, nationalities, migrants... and then we have the precious Welsh wittering on about the terrible fucking oppresion.. and ernie constantly analysing the composition of his gene pool..
> 
> Get real!



And your point was? Not worth dignifying with more of a response.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 10, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> At the same time nobody english or otherwise has any right to tell me Im not welsh or that welsh idenity isnt real or valid just becuase it suits their agenda (racist jokes etc) to say so nor to tell me I have no right to be offended by their ignorant rantings/comments in defence of themselves



Applause


----------



## bendeus (Jan 10, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> sorry this is rubbish but *nice to know you are a nationalist please to see you are proud of something which you have no fucking choice ove*r ...
> 
> how about *it doens't fucking matter where you are born* or what culture you are from it's about how you act and react to people now that is important...
> 
> the intent is everything if the intent is to belittle or ridicule you then calling you a fucking prick is as bad as calling you taffy or nigger or anyother insult (the object of insults to offend you, see) If however you are friends with no intent insult or ridicule whatsoever then there is no insult to percieve is there unless you constantly wander round with a big chip on your shoulder, in which case the so called greivences you are citing are the same as saying is it cos i is welsh ?  is it fuck ... it's cos your a nationalistic twat...



You, however, are just a regular twat. I don't feel I need to justity to you, of all people, why I feel Welsh, and why I have a strong affinity with my nation (clue: it has very little to do with your absurdly reductionist 'theory'). I agree with you on one point and one point only: if a friend were to take the mick of my Welshness then I would consider myself fair game and lay myself gladly on the altar of self-deprecation. If somebody - and most probably a stranger - does the same, I will feel insulted, because that person is crudely and deliberately trying to cause offence from the starting point of his/her own ignorance and prejudice, and is not respecting those things that I hold dear. 

It helps, Garfield, if you read the WHOLE thread COMPREHENSIVELY before spouting your dross. You are just lamely parroting the already discredited posts of others who decry Welsh people taking offence at anti-Welsh comments because, hey, they shouldn't/aren't allowed to/are stupid to feel Welsh in the first place. Can you explain why I shouldn't? And while you're at it, perhaps you might care to think about the offence you would take if something you considered integral and important to your own values, ideals and, yes, dreams was belittled by another, only to be told that you were a twat for holding those ideas in the first place. Do think about it before you go to after school club.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jan 10, 2005)

Nemo said:
			
		

> You eat testicles?   *Crosses legs.*




  " joins Nemo in leg crossing exercise"


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 10, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> I couldnt give two shits what my genetic make up is. I consider myself welsh and dont believe in degrees of welshness. I was born here and raised here by two english parents ( adoptive) and still feel welsh.( my mother has never stood during the english national anthem becuase she anti monarchy but redily stands during the welsh one)
> Ive formed my own welsh identity and what I feel is important connected with that which makes me no more or less welsh than a first language welsh speaker or someone whos had their DNA analysed or who blew up holiday cottages or anything else whcih may 'prove' their welshness according to anyone elses angenda and sod anyone who wants to challenge me on it, to me their views make no difference to me.
> *To start getting into % of celtic origin is just pathetic.*



<bolded bit : wonders whether ernie is going to argue with you about that point   >

I'm staying out of this otherwise .... did read it all though.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 10, 2005)

bendeus said:
			
		

> Not worth dignifying with more of a response.



Gutted.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

bendeus said:
			
		

> You, however, are just a regular twat. I don't feel I need to justity to you, of all people, why I feel Welsh, and why I have a strong affinity with my nation (clue: it has very little to do with your absurdly reductionist 'theory'). I agree with you on one point and one point only: if a friend were to take the mick of my Welshness then I would consider myself fair game and lay myself gladly on the altar of self-deprecation. If somebody - and most probably a stranger - does the same, I will feel insulted, because that person is crudely and deliberately trying to cause offence from the starting point of his/her own ignorance and prejudice, and is not respecting those things that I hold dear.
> 
> It helps, Garfield, if you read the WHOLE thread COMPREHENSIVELY before spouting your dross. You are just lamely parroting the already discredited posts of others who decry Welsh people taking offence at anti-Welsh comments because, hey, they shouldn't/aren't allowed to/are stupid to feel Welsh in the first place. Can you explain why I shouldn't? And while you're at it, perhaps you might care to think about the offence you would take if something you considered integral and important to your own values, ideals and, yes, dreams was belittled by another, only to be told that you were a twat for holding those ideas in the first place. Do think about it before you go to after school club.




you see it helps if you read the the whole thread to see that i have no love for monkeys with little more than rock banging iq who think that nationalism of any kind is something to be proud of...

you have done nothing to earn that pride you were born there to mark yourself and you kith or kin out by such narrow terms as only being a total of a very very minicule part of the total experince is not only patronising but also arrgogant past the point of stupidity...

why do i get the feeling that you are little more than the welsh equiverlent of pbman...


----------



## bendeus (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> you see it helps if you read the the whole thread to see that i have no love for monkeys with little more than rock banging iq who think that nationalism of any kind is something to be proud of...
> 
> you have done nothing to earn that pride you were born there to mark yourself and you kith or kin out by such narrow terms as only being a total of a very very minicule part of the total experince is not only patronising but also arrgogant past the point of stupidity...
> 
> why do i get the feeling that you are little more than the welsh equiverlent of pbman...



Funny, my love for simians is also limited to chucking the odd banana too, Apeboy. Did you enjoy it?

Could you translate the drivel that passes for a second paragraph please? I'm too tired to look for my Bottom-Dweller/English dictionary?

Why does my almost certitude that you are an aggresive cunt of limited intellect grow greater by the second?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 11, 2005)

Oh! And would you care to respond to any of the queries contained in post 407 while you're frothing over your next barrage of insults please?

Ta


----------



## HarrisonSlade (Jan 11, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> He's an arse.


I'm 100% right though.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 11, 2005)

HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> I'm 100% right though.



<Dons Welsh PBman mantle>


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> I'm 100% right though.



Adds 'arrogance' to 'racist' on Slade's file.


----------



## Thumper Browne (Jan 11, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> All those family daytrips to Weston-super-Mare took their toll..  Looking across the Bristol Channel, past Flat Holme and Steep Holme to the bright lights of Penarth & Barry, in my heart-of-hearts.. I always knew... I wanted to be Welsh.



Then you should've jumped on The Waverly you muppet, Barry and Penarth are my old stomping grounds, had a great upbringing there, you dunno what you missed bra.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 11, 2005)

It gets worse.. I did use to visit family friends in Swansea as a kid though..


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

bendeus said:
			
		

> Could you translate the drivel that passes for a second paragraph please? I'm too tired to look for my Bottom-Dweller/English dictionary?



sure fuck head 

gwnaethoch ddim at elwa a balchïa baech arweddedig 'na at farcia eiddo a 'ch kith ai kin i maes at 'n gyfryw chulha amodau fel ond yn bod chwbl chan a iawn iawn minicule barthu chan 'r chwbl brofiad ydy mo ond patronising namyn hefyd arrgogant heibio i 'r atalnoda chan hurtrwydd.

better?


----------



## Belushi (Jan 11, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> It gets worse.. I did use to visit family friends in Swansea as a kid though..



Lucky you!  There's nowhere quite like Swansea...


----------



## jd (Jan 11, 2005)

HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> I'm 100% right though.




Urbanites funny quote thread ahoy!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

bendeus said:
			
		

> Oh! And would you care to respond to any of the queries contained in post 407 while you're frothing over your next barrage of insults please?
> 
> Ta




ach yn awgrymu a ca na capabilty at amgyffred beth dorrir 'n anllygredig becuase gwna mo atega 'ch viewpoint.  Chithau chymryd arno 'n anghywir a dyma becuase dydy parroting chan arall bobloedd atalnodau chan golyga ble fel i mewn ffaith 'i' s becuase 'ch ydy 'n annichellgar jyst yn bod an draethu twat, 'n chwith gwisga' t adnabod 'r Cymraeg achos twat o arhosa 'i' s bendeus


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

bendeus = wanker and nationalist fuck head


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

well are you going to respond then bendeus ??


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

or can't you read welsh?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

Stop getting stressed you daft towel-head.


----------



## RubberBuccaneer (Jan 11, 2005)

Best thing about being Welsh is that we can argue like fuck amongst ourselves but from Holyhead to Chepstow it's 'one in, all in'.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

Wait till the Irish posters get the results of their Celtic Racial Purity tests! Then we might join forces and sweep the Saxon hordes back across the channel!


----------



## meurig (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> ach yn awgrymu a ca na capabilty at amgyffred beth dorrir 'n anllygredig becuase gwna mo atega 'ch viewpoint.  Chithau chymryd arno 'n anghywir a dyma becuase dydy parroting chan arall bobloedd atalnodau chan golyga ble fel i mewn ffaith 'i' s becuase 'ch ydy 'n annichellgar jyst yn bod an draethu twat, 'n chwith gwisga' t adnabod 'r Cymraeg achos twat o arhosa 'i' s bendeus



Fuck me GLC clart your Welsh is just as good as your English.


----------



## RubberBuccaneer (Jan 11, 2005)

Yeah , I forgot the wider ' Inter Celtic League', definately a crew to be reckoned with.

Ern, your the historian, what's the incidence of Celts on the front line of major ' British 'battles? ( as a side track )


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

Celts were used as cannon fodder by the Norman-Saxon State.


----------



## steeplejack (Jan 11, 2005)

meurig said:
			
		

> Fuck me GLC clart your Welsh is just as good as your English.



I rather suspect 'online translation software', myself.


----------



## meurig (Jan 11, 2005)

steeplejack said:
			
		

> I rather suspect 'online translation software', myself.



I'm not sure you've quite caught my drift there...


----------



## steeplejack (Jan 11, 2005)

Indeed!


----------



## Lock&Light (Jan 11, 2005)

RubberBuccaneer said:
			
		

> Ern, your the historian



Ernie? An historian? You've got to be kidding!


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> or can't you read welsh?



And would it make him 'less welsh' if he couldnt?


----------



## tarannau (Jan 11, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> And would it make him 'less welsh' if he couldnt?



Yes, imo of course. Any proud Welshman should learn in this day and age.

And yes, I only speak a little bit of Welsh myself. But I'm only a bastard half-celt by Ern's reckoning...


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 11, 2005)

Im welsh, born and raised and dont speak welsh. Never had any real quality opportunity to learn. I am incredibly cruddy at learning languages and as a result dont feel any great enthusiasm for learning it.Why 'shou;ld' I force myself through hours of something that I dont use in daily life and probably wont use just becuase someone such as yourself tells me I 'should'?

Doesnt make me any less welsh though becuase I choose not to put myself through something I wouldnt enjoy or benefit terribly from


----------



## RubberBuccaneer (Jan 11, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Yes, imo of course. Any proud Welshman should learn in this day and age.
> 
> And yes, I only speak a little bit of Welsh myself. But I'm only a bastard half-celt by Ern's reckoning...



Err...
Wales is inclusive these days!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

meurig said:
			
		

> Fuck me GLC clart your Welsh is just as good as your English.



yeah well at least its a sort of consistancy proves the point  though the nationalist prick can't even respond to it...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Im welsh, born and raised and dont speak welsh. Never had any real quality opportunity to learn. I am incredibly cruddy at learning languages and as a result dont feel any great enthusiasm for learning it.Why 'shou;ld' I force myself through hours of something that I dont use in daily life and probably wont use just becuase someone such as yourself tells me I 'should'?
> 
> Doesnt make me any less welsh though becuase I choose not to put myself through something I wouldnt enjoy or benefit terribly from



becuase you are loosing some of that culture your nationalistic pride demands be kept up you fucking hypocrite


----------



## Lock&Light (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> yeah well at least its a sort of consistancy proves the point  though the nationalist prick can't even respond to it...



I frequently find it impossible to respond to your English as it usually is quite unreadable.


----------



## meurig (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> becuase you are loosing some of that culture your nationalistic pride demands be kept up you fucking hypocrite



Surely she hasn't said she's proud of being Welsh clart, merely that she doesn't like being insulted because she *is* Welsh?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

meurig said:
			
		

> Surely she hasn't said she's proud of being Welsh clart, merely that she doesn't like being insulted because she *is* Welsh?




yeah she has read the thread ...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

Lock&Light said:
			
		

> I frequently find it impossible to respond to your English as it usually is quite unreadable.




i find it hard to respond to you are you are and idiot do you run up to people in wheel chairs nad ask them to stand up becase you find it hard to communitcate with them becuase they are sitting down ?

disabltiy discrimination is perfectly alright accorind to lock and lump the troll...

well done show your true colours again fuck for brains


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> And would it make him 'less welsh' if he couldnt?




it makes him even more of a fucking nationalistic characture in the vien of nick griffin if he claims it's so very very very important to resepct the culture but then feels not obligation to do so himself by learning the language.... sounds like some kind of tourist taffy if you ask me....


----------



## Thumper Browne (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> becuase you are loosing some of that culture your nationalistic pride demands be kept up you fucking hypocrite



You had some decent stuff to say earlier on this thread, this tho proves beyond doubt that you are a total cock.

My culture is changing all the time but just because its changing doesn't make it any less Welsh, language and culture have strong links but are by no means inseperable. I'm Welsh but I don't speak the lingo, so what, not many southern coasties do but we are still Welsh tho.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> i find it hard to respond to you are you are and idiot do you run up to people in wheel chairs nad ask them to stand up becase you find it hard to communitcate with them becuase they are sitting down ?
> 
> disabltiy discrimination is perfectly alright accorind to lock and lump the troll...
> 
> well done show your true colours again fuck for brains



Look Garf - we've had this before. It's not the fact that you're dyslexic that people have a problem with - it's the fact that you continually speel off on major, shapeless rants rather than pen a more concise or relevant answer. You could use a spellchecker - slow down and cut n' paste your words into Outlook/Word etc - which would help us a little. 

I'll admit, I shut off too sometimes. It's too much hard work trying to hack through your posts sometimes...


----------



## Thumper Browne (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> very very very important to resepct the culture but then feels not obligation to do so himself by learning the language.... sounds like some kind of tourist taffy if you ask me....



You're not getting it are you, the areas of Wales that I originate from are melded from Welsh and English (and others) cultures but because that mixed culture resides within the boundaries of Wales makes it Welsh culture, adoptive culture if you will but it's still Welsh, 2005 Welsh not 1905 Welsh but still fekking Welsh and still worthy of respect.


----------



## In Bloom (Jan 11, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Wait till the Irish posters get the results of their Celtic Racial Purity tests! Then we might join forces and sweep the Saxon hordes back across the channel!


"Celtic Racial Purity", you realy are barmy, aren't you?


----------



## tarannau (Jan 11, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Im welsh, born and raised and dont speak welsh. Never had any real quality opportunity to learn. I am incredibly cruddy at learning languages and as a result dont feel any great enthusiasm for learning it.Why 'shou;ld' I force myself through hours of something that I dont use in daily life and probably wont use just becuase someone such as yourself tells me I 'should'?
> 
> Doesnt make me any less welsh though becuase I choose not to put myself through something I wouldnt enjoy or benefit terribly from



I'm not the greatest linguist either, nor is my Dad the greatest teacher. And living in London I don't have the greatest use for it either, but I still felt motivated to learn a few words in my time in Wales

It's not about 'forcing yourself' or enjoyment, it's about preserving an important element of Welsh culture.  And - in some cases - it's about preserving communication and bonds with other Welsh folk - not eveyone speaks English as a first language

Not being judgemental about it, but I'd hate to see a proud  language lapse because it seemed a little impractical or difficult. And I'm a bloody Londoner at heart...


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 11, 2005)

Of course its about forcing myself  and enjoyment. I dont see why I should do something I wont enjoy for some sort of welsh language martyrdom
Its being taught in schools for the good of the language ( and used more and more which I agree with)Its not going to die out 
However those arent any reason for me to force myself to learn a language which is of absolutely no use to me ( becuase only two of my close friends are first language welsh speakers) which Im highly unlikely to get any opportunity to practice becuase I dont live in an area where huge amount of people speak welsh to each other.
So yes I would be focing myself and no frankly I dont worry that becuase I dont force myself to sit through hours and hours of enforced drudgery ( although to some it is no doubt valuable and enjoyable) to learn something which sadly has no relevance or use to me. If I'd been taught it to any standard when i was younger or if I had an actual need to learn it becuase I would be using it regularly ( in a job for instance) I would consider it but i very much doubt I;d be doing anything other than wasting my time. ( becuase Im only good at french) and becuase jobs which require fluent welsh go to first language welsh speakers. I know a few words ( I understand more of what i read than I could ever remember to speak) but learning a few words isnt learning welsh is it?


Doesnt make me any less welsh just becuase you would hate to see a language die out.


----------



## meurig (Jan 11, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Doesnt make me any less welsh just becuase you would hate to see a language die out.



He didn't say he did. He just told you why he felt motivated to learn at least some Welsh. 

He didn't mention you at all.


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> becuase you are loosing some of that culture your nationalistic pride demands be kept up you fucking hypocrite


Not at all.  Only your stereotypical view of what it is to be welsh. Oh and of course the fervent nationalists.
I dont consider myself to be one

Its lovely to see how you see fit to abuse people too.A most charming attribute


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 11, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Yes, imo of course.


I think you'll find he did meurig.....


----------



## meurig (Jan 11, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> I think you'll find he did meurig.....



The only evidence for that supposition I could find was "It's not about 'forcing yourself' or enjoyment". When I read it I took 'yourself' to mean oneself', rather than you. He did explicitly say "Not being judgemental" at the end.

I'd hate to think it was impossible for somebody to say they thought it was a good thing to learn Welsh without someone else thinking they were making a judgement about them not learning Welsh. 

Anyway I have to bid you Noswaith Dda/Good Evening I've got to go and drink with a company client.  

BTW Not all Welsh Nationalists think anybody's any less Welsh for not speaking Welsh.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 11, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> I think you'll find he did meurig.....



Let's qualify that though. I do think there's a strong link between speaking a language and the way you perceive and interact with the world - there's a strong sense of culture and identity that develops inextricably with language. 

That said, there are historical and not altogether 'natural' reasons why a large proportion of those in Wales don't or can't speak Welsh (let's not get Ern started though) - my post was not intended as a criticism of, or a belief that those speaking not Welsh are inferior Welshpeople in any way. It's perfectly understandable, but I'd still argue that speaking the native language is beneficial in understanding and defining national identity, at least in a historical perspective.


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 11, 2005)

Although I totally take on board what you are saying I dont believe you have to speak the language to develop that sense of culture and identity. particularly in vast areas of the south its simply not been relevant to hundreds of thousands of people ( although its undeniably becoming more popular to educate your children through the medium of welsh)  The lack of fluency in welsh hasnt stopped all those people developing their welsh identity.
Or do you believe we cant have a 'welsh' culture without the language? Because that wouldmean those hundreds and thousands of people have no/less of a welsh culture and that I can assure you isnt the case.

 ( specifically do you feel you only identify with your welsh background/ or are only 'allowed' to feel welsh becuase you were taught some words of welsh??  )


----------



## tarannau (Jan 11, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> ( specifically do you feel you only identify with your welsh background/ or are only 'allowed' to feel welsh becuase you were taught some words of welsh??  )



Nope, but learning some Welsh perhaps added some extra understanding and another distinguishing quality. I'm not for one second saying that you can't be Welsh and not speak Welsh, just that the Welsh language has helped shape Welsh perceptions, attitudes and culture throughout hundreds of years, much as any other language would. It's a proud and advanced society that can write something like the Mabinogion - learning Welsh allowed me to rejoice in that a little more, but at a practical level even some place names and the landscape began to snap into place a little more. Not much I grant you, but something else to be proud of.

The effect is largely in the past - spoken and written English has shaped Wales for better or worse for generations now and that's why there's no real discrepancy between not speaking Welsh and a genuine Welsh identity. 

It's not a criticism of you, nor am I going to twist anyone's arm into believing that my crummy Welsh vocab makes me more taff than you. But I'd be lying to suggest that I didn't believe that every Welsh child should be taught their native language at school - it's an important part of their history ... and hopefully their future too...


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

1st time I've agreed with this character.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> I'm not the greatest linguist either, nor is my Dad the greatest teacher. And living in London I don't have the greatest use for it either, but I still felt motivated to learn a few words in my time in Wales
> 
> It's not about 'forcing yourself' or enjoyment, it's about preserving an important element of Welsh culture.  And - in some cases - it's about preserving communication and bonds with other Welsh folk - not eveyone speaks English as a first language
> 
> Not being judgemental about it, but I'd hate to see a proud  language lapse because it seemed a little impractical or difficult. And I'm a bloody Londoner at heart...



why can you say that but when i call it hypocritical to not learn the native tounge as part of keeping 'culture' alive it's dismissed by thumper et al for saying it's unreasonable... 

my hypocrite coment was aimed at one poster bendeus who hasn't even responded dispite his nationalistic terms fo refference and the fact that my response was posted in admitly pigeon welsh ...

as for dyslexcia tarannu sorry but slowing down or spell checking doesn't help  any more than saying to a wheel chair bound person perhaps they should try crawling before they try to walk as for spell checking there's a thing now instead of one word i think i am spelling i am now present with 4 words which might all be correctly spelt but which is the right one i am trying to use....?

Please don't assume that you can grade a disablity and say well it's easily overcomeable when you don't have a scoobie how it affects the person judging them by your standards is precisely the kind of disabltiy discrimination and inequality of oppertunity that disabled people have been fighting against, your an intellgnet person tarannu think a little hey...?


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 11, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Nope, but learning some Welsh perhaps added some extra understanding and another distinguishing quality. I'm not for one second saying that you can't be Welsh and not speak Welsh, just that the Welsh language has helped shape Welsh perceptions, attitudes and culture throughout hundreds of years, much as any other language would. It's a proud and advanced society that can write something like the Mabinogion - learning Welsh allowed me to rejoice in that a little more, but at a practical level even some place names and the landscape began to snap into place a little more. Not much I grant you, but something else to be proud of.
> 
> The effect is largely in the past - spoken and written English has shaped Wales for better or worse for generations now and that's why there's no real discrepancy between not speaking Welsh and a genuine Welsh identity.
> 
> It's not a criticism of you, nor am I going to twist anyone's arm into believing that my crummy Welsh vocab makes me more taff than you. But I'd be lying to suggest that I didn't believe that every Welsh child should be taught their native language at school - it's an important part of their history ... and hopefully their future too...



And I agree with you.
however you take for granted that becuase I say I dont speak welsh that means I dont know welsh.
I learned it for a couple of years at school. I just wouldnt be as presumptuoius as to think that means I can describe myself as speaking welsh.( usually becuase the teaching of welsh was absolutely dire when many of us who are of an age to post were taught it at school) I suspect from what youve said your knowledge is probably comparable to mine
 Knowing a few words  or phrases is nothing compared to being able to speak the language.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Although I totally take on board what you are saying I dont believe you have to speak the language to develop that sense of culture and identity. particularly in vast areas of the south its simply not been relevant to hundreds of thousands of people ( although its undeniably becoming more popular to educate your children through the medium of welsh)  The lack of fluency in welsh hasnt stopped all those people developing their welsh identity.
> Or do you believe we cant have a 'welsh' culture without the language? Because that wouldmean those hundreds and thousands of people have no/less of a welsh culture and that I can assure you isnt the case.
> 
> ( specifically do you feel you only identify with your welsh background/ or are only 'allowed' to feel welsh becuase you were taught some words of welsh??  )



but then you allowing in the truest sense your culture to be diluted and this is what is important to preserve, much of a cultures teaching and history is in it's developement of words it is intrincally wrapped up in it...

no i don't regard you as a plasctic taffy for not but if you think that you have no obligation to keep part of the language alive in order to preserve the culture you value then i think you are missing the point of the richness of the culture you seek to preserve... 

It turns nationalism in to rethoric rather than a striving to sustain that which is being erroded


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

Thumper Browne said:
			
		

> You're not getting it are you, the areas of Wales that I originate from are melded from Welsh and English (and others) cultures but because that mixed culture resides within the boundaries of Wales makes it Welsh culture, adoptive culture if you will but it's still Welsh, 2005 Welsh not 1905 Welsh but still fekking Welsh and still worthy of respect.



yes as humans not becuase they are welsh end off humanity derserves respect not nationalism you have no choice over where you are born to assume you can have pride in it is pure luddite stupidty..


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

Is this ayrab still here? Why's he obsessed with Celts? 

Hoi, Abdul!
Kebab shop --------------->


----------



## Lock&Light (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> as for dyslexcia tarannu sorry but slowing down or spell checking doesn't help  any more than saying to a wheel chair bound person perhaps they should try crawling before they try to walk as for spell checking there's a thing now instead of one word i think i am spelling i am now present with 4 words which might all be correctly spelt but which is the right one i am trying to use....?



Every spell-checker I ever used offers one high-lighted option, usually the right one. If all you ever did was to choose the offered option your ramblings might just become legible.

BTW I am also getting to feel very sick about your constant moaning about your so-called disabilities. I know a number of people with disabilities but you would never know it if all you did was to listen to them.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

Abdul's spelling is definitely not dyslexic. Not even mild dyslexia. He's doing actual dyslexics a real disservice.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> yes as humans not becuase they are welsh end off humanity derserves respect not nationalism you have no choice over where you are born to assume you can have pride in it is pure luddite stupidty..



For example here: he spells 'luddite', 'nationalism' and 'assume' correctly, yet 'becuase' is simply ham-fisted careless typing, and 'off' and 'derserves' are just lazy and symptomatic evidence that even the best private school education can still churn out ignorami.


----------



## layabout (Jan 11, 2005)

Lock&Light said:
			
		

> Every spell-checker I ever used offers one high-lighted option, usually the right one. If all you ever did was to choose the offered option your ramblings might just become legible.



Still doesn't help. Not only do you need to know which word(s) are spelt incorrectly, you would need to know, which one of the suggested replacement words is the correct word....hard to pick out for a real dyslexic.



> BTW I am also getting to feel very sick about your constant moaning about your so-called disabilities. I know a number of people with disabilities but you would never know it if all you did was to listen to them.



You would never know about GLC's disability if you spoke to him - you fucking pratt.


----------



## Lock&Light (Jan 11, 2005)

layabout said:
			
		

> Still doesn't help. Not only do you need to know which word(s) are spelt incorrectly, you would need to know, which one of the suggested replacement words is the correct word....hard to pick out for a real dyslexic.



Can dyslectics not distinguish highlighting? My God, they must be heavily disabled!




			
				layabout said:
			
		

> You would never know about GLC's disability if you spoke to him - you fucking pratt.



You might have intended to say something with that sentence, but, as so often with you, your intention has mis-fired.


----------



## layabout (Jan 11, 2005)

Lock&Light said:
			
		

> Can dyslectics not distinguish highlighting? My God, they must be heavily disabled!



You really are thick, aren't you? 

If they see a highlighted word, because it's spelt wrong, so fucking what? They have to find the correct spelling to replace it with. Depending on how bad their condition is and the actual word involved,  that might not always be possible.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

layabout said:
			
		

> You really are thick, aren't you?
> 
> If they see a highlighted word, because it's spelt wrong, so fucking what? They have to find the correct spelling to replace it with. Depending on how bad their condition is and the actual word involved,  that might not always be possible.



You're assuming a lot of Garfield's diligence and care. Check his posting record.


----------



## Lock&Light (Jan 11, 2005)

layabout said:
			
		

> You really are thick, aren't you?
> 
> If they see a highlighted word, because it's spelt wrong, so fucking what? They have to find the correct spelling to replace it with. Depending on how bad their condition is and the actual word involved,  that might not always be possible.



You must have a very different spell-checker than me. Mine offers options, with the most likely option high-lighted. 

BTW I thought you weren't interesting. Or interested. Or something.


----------



## layabout (Jan 11, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> You're assuming a lot of Garfield's diligence and care. Check his posting record.



Yeah but at least he's remotely human.

*cough*

*Look's towards Lock N Light, smiles and waves*


----------



## layabout (Jan 11, 2005)

Lock&Light said:
			
		

> You must have a very different spell-checker than me. Mine offers options, with the most likely option high-lighted.
> 
> BTW I thought you weren't interesting. Or interested. Or something.



I see your spell checker couldn't help you out with that one..........


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 11, 2005)

layabout said:
			
		

> Yeah but at least he's remotely human.
> 
> *cough*
> 
> *Look's towards Lock N Light, smiles and waves*



That is true.

*Pisses in Lock N Light's slippers*


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Is this ayrab still here? Why's he obsessed with Celts?
> 
> Hoi, Abdul!
> Kebab shop --------------->


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 11, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Is this ayrab still here? Why's he obsessed with Celts?
> 
> Hoi, Abdul!
> Kebab shop --------------->




btw you celts were once ayrabs you do know that right


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 12, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> btw you celts were once ayrabs you do know that right



Were fucking not! We was always in Europe. The Saxons came from Africa, they split from the Hottentots.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 12, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Abdul's spelling is definitely not dyslexic. Not even mild dyslexia. He's doing actual dyslexics a real disservice.




yeah they are all thick aren't they ern 

erns more trollinf comments about dyslexcia (btw Note to Lock and Lump notice how it's spelt??)

thing is ern you understand me and that's becuase you can be arse to make a little bit of effort reading the posts you unlike me post up your comments with near sure knowledge that the spelling will be correct i don't becuase i cannot tell and will write the same word sometimes different ways in a sentence becuase i cannot tell. going back and meticuliuosly checking things each time for spellings which i cannot recoginise spoils the fluidity of posting eqaully i have found in the past that doing so means on a popular thread with many responses that the post i make has been late or becomes irrivent as the posters have moved their conversation on past that point... if you had a conversation in the pub but had to carefully forumlate and grammtically correcty each word you were staying then sense check each sentence before you talked you also find that after a while you would just blrut out what came into your head regardless of the word order becasue otherwise you 'd sit there in silence not becuase you have no voice or comment but merely becuase the conversation has moved on...

the fact that it keep raising it's head as a topic on this and many other threads is because people like lock and lump insit that communitcation can only be presented on their level and those with anything to say which doesn't match up to their own ablitities must be pointed out and ridiculed... i have no doubt that were he to tell a person speaking with a stammer to spit it out repeatedly he'd quite rightly be seen off as an ass or equally be punched in the mouth.... 

Yet again the so called liberal consenious from his posioned pen is that whilst telling a stammer to spit it out would be totally unacceptable it's perfectly acceptable to point and laugh at the lingustic cripple, well it's not on and tbh this thread is about the welsh not Lock and Limps fucking intollernce of disablity which is frankely their own concern... 

thankfully the fuckwit is in holland so we can only hope that a passing team of wheel chair racing thelidomide deformed mute blind black lesbian dwafs bum rush him into a cannal one day and the fucker drowns ....

well a retard can dream can't he???


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 12, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Were fucking not! We was always in Europe. The Saxons came from Africa, they split from the Hottentots.




Bloody are why do you think that you where tarten ?

why do you think there are very strong ties with eygpt and ireland? 

why was one queen of ireland an eygptian princess?

where do you think the basis of the brehen laws came from?

or why celts were reffered to as bog arabs?

duh!


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 12, 2005)

That pressed 'is buttons!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 12, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> That pressed 'is buttons!




nah not you that dullard lock and lump beaatch


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 12, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> or why celts were reffered to as bog arabs?
> 
> duh!



Because the English Army having had firing practise against the Arabs in Oman and Aden in the late 60s, then started shooting Irish men, women and children in the early 70s.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 12, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Because the English Army having had firing practise against the Arabs in Oman and Aden in the late 60s, then started shooting Irish men, women and children in the early 70s.




is that 1870's 1670's 1570's  

i don't recall any eygpytian princess becoming queen of ireland in the 1970's 

(unless you have stolen wee janny's history book which i guess is a possiblty seeing as he's in the uk now....friends you and him are you???)


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 12, 2005)

Egyptian princess my arse - when Egypt had a monarchy they were all Bubbles, not Wogs. Cleopatra was a Bubble as well you know, and she fucked Wops.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 12, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> why do you think there are very strong ties with eygpt and ireland?



Egypt is Ireland's biggest foreign importer of spuds. (True)


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 12, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Egyptian princess my arse - when Egypt had a monarchy they were all Bubbles, not Wogs. Cleopatra was a Bubble as well you know, and she fucked Wops.




as i ahve told you they werent western or oriental ... (besides ins't wop slang for itialians ???


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 12, 2005)

Wogs = Egyptians
Wops = Italians

WOG = Western Oriental, as in Middle Eastern.


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> i cannot tell and will write the same word sometimes different ways in a sentence becuase i cannot tell.


Just a thought, but have you considered downloading the free Spellbound plug in for Firefox?

That lets you spell check your words _after_ you've finished typing them in, so it shouldn't interrupt your flow...

(editor steps smartly away from the bunfight in progress)


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 12, 2005)

Have you had your CRP tested yet, editor?


----------



## pk (Jan 12, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Wogs = Egyptians
> Wops = Italians
> 
> WOG = Western Oriental, as in Middle Eastern.



Christ on crutches, are you the Stalinist branch of the BNP now or what?

Forget it - I don't even want to know what (if anything) you think anymore, Ernestolynch...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 12, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Just a thought, but have you considered downloading the free Spellbound plug in for Firefox?
> 
> That lets you spell check your words _after_ you've finished typing them in, so it shouldn't interrupt your flow...
> 
> (editor steps smartly away from the bunfight in progress)



does it work in opera til they have fixed the css prob in firefox i'm not going back to it even with fire tweaker it's still not good at more than 160 lines ??

got a link anyhow?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 12, 2005)

pk said:
			
		

> Christ on crutches, are you the Stalinist branch of the BNP now or what?
> 
> Forget it - I don't even want to know what (if anything) you think anymore, Ernestolynch...




friend of wee jannys me thinks


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 12, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> friend of wee jannys me thinks



There's more bleeding Ayrabs in the Ulster-Huns than there are Celts....as Renfrew will no doubt pop in and tell us all soon.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 12, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> There's more bleeding Ayrabs in the Ulster-Huns than there are Celts....as Renfrew will no doubt pop in and tell us all soon.




nto denying it then ....

That pressed 'is buttons!


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 12, 2005)

I've always wondered where the term 'welsh on a bet', i.e. don't pay, comes from.

Are welshmen reputed to be cheap, or dishonest?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 12, 2005)

It was because of a so-called 'Prince of Wales' dastardly reputation as a gambler who never paid up. So a German then.


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 12, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> but then you allowing in the truest sense your culture to be diluted and this is what is important to preserve, much of a cultures teaching and history is in it's developement of words it is intrincally wrapped up in it...
> 
> no i don't regard you as a plasctic taffy for not but if you think that you have no obligation to keep part of the language alive in order to preserve the culture you value then i think you are missing the point of the richness of the culture you seek to preserve...
> 
> It turns nationalism in to rethoric rather than a striving to sustain that which is being erroded



That depends whether you place your idea of 'culture' on what existed hundred of years ago ( and yes its tragic that it was eroded by the enforced anglicisation of communities) or whether you embrace what is present here now in terms of culture. Which does include and accept that anglicsation happened and that it has shaped huge areas of wales re: the language which is most predominant but you have to accept that people can speak english and be no less influenced by their ancestors history and cultural/bahvioural norms which have been passed down through generations. This is why for me, speaking welsh isnt as important to my perceptions of a welsh identity as it may be for others. Nobody in my family or my husbands family has spoken welsh for generations thus it does become personally less relevant to how we see ourselves but that makes us no less welsh.The welsh language activists/hard line nationalists would deny that I believe and say we are siding with english supremacy or some such nonsense but we are shaped by who we are and who our direct family, friends and previous generations are/were whether it suits their polictics or not that does include a couple of hundred years worth of english being the more prominent language in a huge swathe of South wales stretching from swansea right to the border in the east. To deny that english is part of our history is blind and ignorant and frankly rather patronising to suggest that people are 'less welsh' becuase the welsh language doesnt and hasnt played a direct part in their lives/culture/history.


I personally dont feel that I have anything to gain at present by learning any more welsh. That doesnt mean I object to my children being taught it or that it shouldnt be preserved or encouraged but thats a wider issue than just me and what I personally do or dont do.I dont siubscribe to the notion of the welsh language being the biggest thing in welsh culture becuase in the south thats not the case.


----------



## behemoth (Jan 12, 2005)

This is what I love about U75.

20 pages and 500 posts agonising over concepts of race, nationality and political correctness.


----------



## Thumper Browne (Jan 12, 2005)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> Please don't assume that you can grade a *different culture* and say well it's easily overcomeable when you don't have a scoobie how it affects the person judging them by your standards is precisely the kind of *cultural* discrimination and inequality of oppertunity that *different* people have been fighting against, your an intellgnet person tarannu think a little hey...?



Bingo!


----------



## wandermermaid (Jan 12, 2005)

I was going to join in, being Welsh an all like, But its giving me a headache.
I'm off back to drugs.....(just say mmmm no yeah go on then. you know it makes sense mush.)


----------



## jd (Jan 12, 2005)

behemoth said:
			
		

> This is what I love about U75.
> 
> 20 pages and 500 posts agonising over concepts of race, nationality and political correctness.



Agony is absolutely right.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 12, 2005)

some dull Daily Mail headline and Littlejohn-believer said:
			
		

> This is what I love about U75.
> 
> 20 pages and 500 posts agonising over concepts of race, nationality and political correctness.






			
				jd said:
			
		

> Agony is absolutely right.



Except that anyone who uses the cliche-worn phrase 'political correctness' anywhere, at any time, 
is automatically a brain dead media myth believing moron in my book ....

 

Will get back to this thread later ... need to catch up on a few pages first ....


----------



## HarrisonSlade (Jan 12, 2005)

ernestolynch said:
			
		

> Wait till the Irish posters get the results of their Celtic Racial Purity tests! Then we might join forces and sweep the Saxon hordes back across the channel!


And what about your test then Ern? Are you going to still stick by your pride when you realise that there is obviously going to be a mixture of Celt/ Saxon/ Semite/ Nordic blood somewhere swimming in your veins, like there is in most of us. Or will you just settle down, shake off that homoerotic, grecian anger and learn to be a human being. You really do need to look at what you say. I mean.... are you really serious about anything you post?


----------



## ICB (Jan 12, 2005)

jd said:
			
		

> Agony is absolutely right.



Keeps the cnuts tucked up nice in one easily ignorable thread tho innit

Jobs a good un


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 12, 2005)

Some good quality debate in the last few pages especially between LitleMissHissy and tarranau.

Just going to add my anecdotal twopennyworth.

I'm English, born of Yorkshire and Derbyshire parentage (although supposedly there's a bit of Scots on the Derbyshire side -- my grandmother's maiden name was Kirk). I've never claimed to be anything other than English, and being boirn in London and having spent most of my adult life here, London is where I feel most at home and it's with where I identify, we visited for a couple of weeks every summer, an I always wanted to come back. One of the few life ambitions I've ever had or fulfilled ... 

However, I was brought up between the ages of 2 and 17 in North Wales (firstly Anglesey [Ynys Mon**], then Bangor). I hated my school days largely, but in that time I learnt a fair bit of Welsh, enough to get by in basic day to day communication anyway -- there were a fair proportion of first language Welsh speakers in that part of Wales. I've probably lost nearly all of it now though, having been back here since 1980, and not spent much time in Wales since, except odd visits to mates in Swansea [Abertawe**] (these mates don't speak Welsh though).

**Knew these before I read this thread

But my older sister is completely different. She was born in Meirionydd (Dolgellau) brought up in English (for a short while in London, for a lot longer in Anglesey and Bangor) same as me and my brother. But she took it on herself to learn Welsh *seriously* at school, and since leaving home at 18, her first language rapidly became Welsh. She doesn't all that often speak English except to the family (and we don't see much of her), and to non Welsh speakers in her part of South Wales (quite a few). But at home the language for her is Welsh. Her bloke is from Tredegar and has learnt Welsh (coming from a non Welsh speaking Welsh background), to a similarly thorough extent. As a youth she got well involved with Cymdeithas Y Iaith Cymraeg (Welsh Language Society), has always voted Plaid Cymru though her bloke is more of an Old Labour man). She got active and went to prison three times for short spells (not for cottage burning, but she knew one or two who did get involved in that side!  ). 

More recently she has worked for Urdd Gobaeth Cymru (the Welsh youth organisation) and also teaches Welsh to adults in Ebbw Vale [Glyn Ebwy] many evenings a week -- there's quite a lot of demand. Her opinion about people wanting to learn Welsh as adults is pretty easy going though -- she doesn't judge anyone as any less Welsh by culture or background because they choose not to ... encouragement not coercion is the way forward ... thats how she feels nowadays anyway, I think she was more strongminded and conclusion jumping when younger!

I think the above, while a bit of an unusual story, proves that Little Miss Hissy Fit is talking a lot of sense and ernie is talking a big fat steaming load of bollocks when he drivels on about Celtic DNA purity.

She is probably far more genuinely Welsh by cultural identitification (not that it's a competition) than ernie is! I (from the same family) am English. Neither of us have more than a shade of 'Celtic DNA' in us. 

Where does that leave us?

I also know for a fact that ernie's tales of  a Celtic DNA testing establishment in Caernarfon are mythical fantasies ... but that was fairly obvious anyway wasn't it (clue : the name 'ernestolynch')  )

BTW, I'm honestly not trying to be divide and rule here, but do not some of the other Welsh posters here not think some of ernie's ridiculousness is more of a hindrance than help in discussing these issues and in advancing their case?

By the way, at school and subsequently, I became very well aware of how ignorant and prejudiced and at times discriminatory *some* English people are about Welsh people they encounter. But some of bendeus's wild ranting about this I found a tedious bore, and he was in my case speaking to someone who compeltely understood what he was talking about, when shorn of the hyperbole anyway ....

Counterproductive in the extreme ....


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 12, 2005)

HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> And what about your test then Ern? Are you going to still stick by your pride when you realise that there is obviously going to be a mixture of Celt/ Saxon/ Semite/ Nordic blood somewhere swimming in your veins, like there is in most of us. Or will you just settle down, shake off that homoerotic, grecian anger and learn to be a human being. You really do need to look at what you say. I mean.... are you really serious about anything you post?



Clearly not ... I disagree with a lot of what you post Harrison, but I think you've got it spot on just there.

Wait til he calls you a 'racist' though (yet again).


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## layabout (Jan 12, 2005)

HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> And what about your test then Ern? Are you going to still stick by your pride when you realise that there is obviously going to be a mixture of Celt/ Saxon/ Semite/ Nordic blood somewhere swimming in your veins, like there is in most of us. Or will you just settle down, shake off that homoerotic, grecian anger and learn to be a human being. You really do need to look at what you say. I mean.... are you really serious about anything you post?



If you think that last post of Erns was serious, I really am worried............


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## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 12, 2005)

William of Walworth said:
			
		

> I think the above, while a bit of an unusual story, proves that Little Miss Hissy Fit is talking a lot of sense and ernie is talking a big fat steaming load of bollocks when he drivels on about Celtic DNA purity.
> 
> She is probably far more genuinely Welsh by cultural identitification (not that it's a competition) than ernie is! I (from the same family) am English. Neither of us have more than a shade of 'Celtic DNA' in us.
> 
> ...



Thank you and tes definitely, all that DNA shit is about as relevant as what colour your pubes are  and erns doing nobody any favours obessing about his suprior DNA


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## meurig (Jan 12, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Thank you and tes definitely, all that DNA shit is about as relevant as what colour your pubes are  and erns doing nobody any favours obessing about his suprior DNA



That's a relief - I was really worried about the stray ginger ones.

<understatement>I don't think ern's being entirely serious.</understatement>

But it's not entirely helpful when it's possible people who don't habitually hang out on urban75 might read this thread and not immediately grasp that.


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## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 12, 2005)

Ginger ones eh?Is that a  welsh trait? ( I am being semi serious here   
Is being read haired ( wherever you happen to have hairy bits)  a welsh/celtic thing?


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## Thumper Browne (Jan 12, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Ginger ones eh?Is that a  welsh trait? ( I am being semi serious here
> Is being read haired ( wherever you happen to have hairy bits)  a welsh/celtic thing?



Surely its a Nordic feature?


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## meurig (Jan 12, 2005)

Thumper Browne said:
			
		

> Surely its a Nordic feature?


I dunno. All the gingers in my family are about as Welsh as you can get, and short arses to boot.

Aren't Nordic types stereotypically tall and blond?


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## Hollis (Jan 12, 2005)

William of Walworth said:
			
		

> BTW, I'm honestly not trying to be divide and rule here, but do not some of the other Welsh posters here not think some of ernie's ridiculousness is more of a hindrance than help in discussing these issues and in advancing their case?
> 
> ....




On the contrary.. he is a great spokesman for Welsh Nationalism.


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## Thumper Browne (Jan 12, 2005)

meurig said:
			
		

> I dunno. All the gingers in my family are about as Welsh as you can get, and short arses to boot.



As Welsh as you can get, are we back to Ernie's Celtic Purity?




			
				meurig said:
			
		

> Aren't Nordic types stereotypically tall and blond?



Nah that's the Germanic types, innit?

I'm on thin ice here, but I think I'm right?


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## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 12, 2005)

I thought the UK had one of the only populations of gingers in the world? Welsh Men have long bodies and short legs


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## meurig (Jan 12, 2005)

Thumper Browne said:
			
		

> As Welsh as you can get, are we back to Ernie's Celtic Purity?


God no. Please no. 

Short arsed, chapel going, bilingual Plaid apparatchiks.

I was thinking living up to stereotypes rather than dna Thumper.




			
				Thumper Browne said:
			
		

> Nah that's the Germanic types, innit?
> 
> I'm on thin ice here, but I think I'm right?



I've only been to Stockholm in Scandyland, and I was amazed by the amount of tall blond people.

I felt like a gnome in comparison.


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## Thumper Browne (Jan 12, 2005)

meurig said:
			
		

> I was thinking living up to stereotypes rather than dna Thumper.



Coolio, funny I'm about as Welsh as you can get in that respect also.




			
				neurig said:
			
		

> I've only been to Stockholm in Scandyland, and I was amazed by the amount of tall blond people.



Germans on holiday!?





			
				LMHF said:
			
		

> Welsh Men have long bodies and short legs



That's me that is. 27" inside leg


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## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 12, 2005)

Cor! Me too and Im 5ft hahahahaha


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## meurig (Jan 12, 2005)

Short body, short legs me - just short generally.


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## Julie (Jan 12, 2005)

I have a genuine question: Is there some degree of animosity between Welsh and English people?

If there is, why is that?

If there isn't, please ignore this post  


Edit: My question is not designed to shit-stir


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## Belushi (Jan 12, 2005)

Julie said:
			
		

> I have a genuine question: Is there some degree of animosity between Welsh and English people?
> 
> If there is, why is that?
> 
> ...



Well, it all started in about 410AD with the collapse of Roman Authority in Britain...


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## Karac (Jan 12, 2005)

Julie said:
			
		

> I have a genuine question: Is there some degree of animosity between Welsh and English people?
> 
> If there is, why is that?
> 
> ...


Yeah when the Saxon hordes invaded Cymru.


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## Karac (Jan 13, 2005)

This is what i think.
Non Welsh speaking Welsh people are just as Welsh as Welsh speakers.
If i had kids theyd learn Welsh.


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## ernestolynch (Jan 13, 2005)

When Gwrtheyrn sold us out to Hengist and Hortha.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 13, 2005)

Saw this on a van in Bangor this morning...

www.celtest.com

They have 'laboratory services'


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## William of Walworth (Jan 13, 2005)

A Celtic DNA test, in progress ... 







Do you live in Bangor, Mwgdrwg??


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 13, 2005)

William of Walworth said:
			
		

> A Celtic DNA test, in progress ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, but not far.


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## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 13, 2005)

Karac said:
			
		

> This is what i think.
> Non Welsh speaking Welsh people are just as Welsh as Welsh speakers.
> If i had kids theyd learn Welsh.



Of course they would if you live in wales and send them to a state school, they are required to, its law


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## Karac (Jan 13, 2005)

I know-i really shouldnt post when i get in from the pub!
Its always a load of cobblers.


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## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 13, 2005)

Drnken ramblings can be so funny though so dont stop


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## William of Walworth (Jan 13, 2005)

mwgdrwg said:
			
		

> No, but not far.



Only asked cos I lived there for a few years 

We used to drink in the Kings Arms (High Street, not far from the Castle Hotel) and the Union Garth ...

I'm talking of my underage days, mainly


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## Main Street (Jan 13, 2005)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Drnken ramblings can be so funny though so dont stop



Maybe that's Rentonite's aka bush sucker man aka trigger problem. Stick em up!


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## nwnm (Jul 26, 2006)

Tnn


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## Kings (Sep 21, 2011)

I made a Google search for 'Trons Drewllyd' for reasons I'm not going to get into now.
I chose the link that seemed the most interesting and it brought me here ....


ernestolynch said:


> Yli gotsan, dos i grafu dy din drewllyd, ac er yn ol i dy siop kebab.
> 
> Trans : I'll have plenty of chilli sauce, Ahmed.


Arglwydd mawredd split my sides .. seriously ...
I had to read the rest of the thread of course ... it's been educational and thoroughly entertaining.
Though we are now 6 years further down the line this very 'conversation' is still true today ... especially for me and especially today.
I'm a self employed carpenter in the Netherlands and I've been here now nigh on 20 years. I grew up on Ynys Mon though I was born in Manchester ... am I a proud Cymro ? Fucking right I am !

So what about my day then ? Well I worked today on a Monumental building in Leiden with Ahmed, a Moroccan man born in the Netherlands and JP a Frenchman from Normandy and we all talk Dutch together.
JP has the inevitable French accent but I can get away with being Dutch most of the time ... but I have never come across an Englishman who could say the same. Even though strictly speaking, via Frisian, English is a next of kin to the Dutch.

If there's one thing I've hated in all my time here, that is being called an Englishman. Due to the lack of basic education most (but not all) of the people I meet dont know the difference or the differences between the peoples of the four British nations, so I take it upon my self to explain it to them, it makes conversation, and I sound like I know shit !

I'm also a member of a small music site where I have in the past received horrible comments on the Welsh songs I uploaded ... by who? Would you believe it, by a bloody Englishman ... fuck they are so small minded, pena bach !
And that's what I told him too, in a PM, he did remove all of his stupidity from my song threads ... we have a 'slightly'  more dignified way of talking to each other than you guys do ! lol

If it is something, it's something inside ... calon lan sydd llawn daioni, tecach yw na'r lili dlos.
It's a beating hart, a raging mind and a serenading soul ... believe me I know.
The frustrations come from not knowing (like not knowing what the fuck to do with a cheeky englishman) or from simply not knowing how to express what is in actual fact a total emotion.

As proud as I am I'm a bit tired of the whole Welsh / English thing (from the Cymru) it makes your world seem so very small, though as you can read I can relate completely to the feeling and have to deal with it regularly.

Racism it most definitely is not we are all Arian, nationalism it is, wanting to care for something incredible while some single celled dumb ass blindly tries to trample it to dust .... over my dead body boyo, not then, not now, not ever, what ever your comments    ; )


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## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2011)

Kings said:


> we are all Arian, nationalism it is, wanting to care for something incredible while some single celled dumb ass blindly tries to trample it to dust .... over my dead body boyo, not then, not now, not ever, what ever your comments ; )


no we're not. i doubt there's many arians in europe - the heresy dropped out of sight hundreds of years ago. perhaps you mean aryan? we're not that either, it's all a big lie.

and ime the only people who talk about aryans are wrong uns. are you a wrong un?


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## Ax^ (Sep 21, 2011)

18 pages, dang just think what will happen  if they win the WRC,


(;


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## ddraig (Sep 21, 2011)

piss of with your "they" 

croeso, i guess, kings


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## Mrs Magpie (Sep 21, 2011)

Kings said:


> It's a beating hart


Oh deer.


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## Crispy (Sep 21, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Oh deer.



Have a  as well as a like.


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## Pingu (Sep 21, 2011)

tbh i do think that we north welsh have a fair bit in common with our sais neighbours.

our protohuman appearance and general cavemanesque qualities in particular are very similar to those exibited by the majority of those I see who claim English lineage.

I will demonstrate in pictoral form:







your "typical" resident of Llanwrst. Note red top indicating a strong affiliation with the colours worn by welsh internationals for both rugby football and the strange one with the round ball.






a result from Google for "englishman"

note the similarities in both demeanour and appearance. In fact if it wasnt for the presence of sunglasses (for those still in N Wales the sun is a bright yellow orange thing that can sometimes be seen in the sky during breaks in the rain) you would be hard pushed to distinguish between the two.


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## METH LAB (Sep 21, 2011)

im the only fuckin idiot stupid enough to move this far out west..seems the rest of you stop at swansea lol.


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## Pingu (Sep 21, 2011)

ahhh swansea, the Rhyl of the south...


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## Sasaferrato (Sep 21, 2011)

Thumper Browne said:


> Coolio, funny I'm about as Welsh as you can get in that respect also.
> 
> Germans on holiday!?
> 
> That's me that is. 27" inside leg



You are my new best friend. You make my 29" inside leg look positively generous.  It's a bugger buying decent trousers, isn't it?


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## danny la rouge (Sep 21, 2011)

19 pages.  It's far too late for a sensible answer, isn't it?

The answer is in Kenan Malik's excellent book, Strange Fruit.  If anyone cares by now.


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## Kings (Sep 21, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> no we're not. i doubt there's many arians in europe - the heresy dropped out of sight hundreds of years ago. perhaps you mean aryan? we're not that either, it's all a big lie.
> 
> and ime the only people who talk about aryans are wrong uns. are you a wrong un?


Yes you're right, I just read up about it and we're not .. I was always under the impression that 'westerners' and Indians were bunched together as Aryans (cheers for the spelling) with Indians being the phenomenon as with India her self, they moved down there as she moved up to meet them !
Yea! Lies .... how about miss-placed information ... like 2012 for instance.

As for talking about things ... lots of words words .. they come in handy to understand stuff !

Something I would have liked to have added to this thread 6 years ago .... remember the intrinsic power of words sometimes collective always personal ..

@ ddraig : Diolch I'm sure ... I enjoyed the ramblings of these last 19 pages, the rest of the site I still need to discover....maybe!
And anyway what else can Ax say but 'them'? It doesn't matter which side of the line your on it's always us and them .... it just clarifies the line ... I'm just pleased no one will call me an Engelsman


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 21, 2011)

Ah, I see!  Ancient thread bump!


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## Gavin Bl (Sep 21, 2011)

Sasaferrato said:


> You are my new best friend. You make my 29" inside leg look positively generous.  It's a bugger buying decent trousers, isn't it?



its starts getting tricky again at 34"...!


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## William of Walworth (Sep 21, 2011)

I either never saw, or have completely forgotten, this thread -- first time around 

Whatever, here it is now!




			
				METH LAB said:
			
		

> im the only fuckin idiot stupid enough to move this far out west..seems the rest of you stop at swansea lol.



You must live so far West you're practically in Ireland then man! 



Pingu said:


> ahhh swansea, the Rhyl of the south...



On a good day ....


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## William of Walworth (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm not going to touch the 'race' side of things with a netty bargepole (not til I've had time to read the damned thread anyway  --- back end of never??)

But I have to say that adjusting to living in Swansea (after 27 years in London before) has taken some doing since I moved here in late 2008.

And I've definitely still got a fair way to go.

I have and have posted lots of positives about both the place and plenty of the people, but my chief negative ATM is that very 'local'-feeling small-town-style prejudice and bigotry is all too easy to encounter, unwanted.

NOT saying that all bigots here are Welsh, still less that all Welsh here are bigots, nor that bigotry can't be found in plenty of English places too.

After that firm proviso though, I find the level of hatred from SOME in SOME places around here against benefit claimants/unemployed, gypsies, Muslims, and foreigners (and I don't mean the English as it goes!) thoroughly shocking and depressing.

I've discussed this issue from to time to time over the last few months in other threads, but *open* prejudice of this kind was IME and IMO rarer or at least better hidden in London, so it's like a kick in the teeth to hear that sorta backward shit got away with (and far too much got away with unchallenged or underchallenged, too) by a vocal and unpleasant minority now.

That said, I'm rubbish at confronting it and I almost always bottle it up in frustrated pissed off anger -- perhaps I don't know what to do because I still feel so much of an outsider and foreigner myself.

I think I need to acquire some more politicised and advanced-minded work colleagues, there must be plenty about .... somewhere ....


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## bendeus (Sep 24, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> I'm not going to touch the 'race' side of things with a netty bargepole (not til I've had time to read the damned thread anyway  --- back end of never??)
> 
> But I have to say that adjusting to living in Swansea (after 27 years in London before) has taken some doing since I moved here in late 2008.
> 
> ...



Interesting. I have a friend (who I haven't seen in ages, in fairness) of Nigerian descent but born in London. She claims to have found far less open prejudice in Cardiff (and the Vale, where she now lives) than she found growing up in London.

Appreciate that there are parts of Wales, however, where the situation on the ground is far, far different. Certainly when I worked up in the Valleys I had to deal with far more up-front racism than I'd have liked


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## Belushi (Sep 24, 2011)

Ah, the thread where the welsh posters all claimed to be getting blood tests to check in case we had any accursed Saes blood 

Classic.


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## ddraig (Sep 24, 2011)

can't read it now as too pissed but just skimmed some bits and been proper chuckling  

and Bendeus, yes i think i've heard that off another Nigerian who used to visit Cardiff a lot


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## Will2403 (Sep 24, 2011)

Reply to op: doesn't matter and offensiveness is just about intention, you can poke fun at everything as long as you mean no harm by it.


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## Will2403 (Sep 24, 2011)

Learnt that on sesame street.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 24, 2011)

I always like it when questions I comically asked over six years ago as the result of something daft on the boards over six years ago are answered.


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## ddraig (Jun 19, 2012)

IT IS TROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18489735



			
				bbc said:
			
		

> Prof Donnelly said: "People from Wales are genetically relatively distinct, they look different genetically from much of the rest of mainland Britain, and actually people in north Wales look relatively distinct from people in south Wales."
> 
> While there were traces of migrant groups across the UK, there were fewer in Wales and Cornwall.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2012)

Gerroff my laaaand, English Johnny Foreigners. 





> Welsh people could lay claim to be the most ancient Britons, according to scientists who have drawn up a genetic map of the British Isles.
> 
> Research suggests the Welsh are genetically distinct from the rest of mainland Britain.
> 
> ...


----------



## davesgcr (Jun 19, 2012)

I have problems then - "born Wales" - but Dutch , Cockney and north Gower (haunt of the Saes) grandfathers etc. Should I seek asylum next time over the Severn Bridge , or preferably the Severn Tunnel ?


----------



## Gavin Bl (Jun 19, 2012)

i think these are grounds for the return of the occupied territories of Wales East. They are alot closer than Las Malvinas, so I expect to see someone up in front of the UN Decolonisation Committee!


----------



## Firky (Mar 18, 2013)

ddraig said:


> can't read it now as too pissed but just skimmed some bits and been proper chuckling
> 
> and Bendeus, yes i think i've heard that off another Nigerian who used to visit Cardiff a lot


 
I forget the history this place has at times, stuff like this going back years and still people are getting a laugh out of it. Must be odd to be new to this place and not get some of the references to threads of old like Boat Happy and such.

"Your posting style reminds me of someone from Stormfront"



I Wonder what Jonathon Bishop has to say on hte subject.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 19, 2013)

Firky said:


> I forget the history this place has at times, stuff like this going back years *and still people are getting a laugh out of it.* .


 
Up until June 2012 anyway


----------



## Santino (Mar 19, 2013)

trampie


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## RaverDrew (Mar 19, 2013)

Bring back ern


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## fogbat (Mar 19, 2013)

It is true that those who are fluent in Welsh are a bit more Welsh than those who do not, though.


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2013)

We're the race that wins at rugby.


----------



## fogbat (Mar 19, 2013)

editor said:


> We're the race that wins at rugby.


I don't.


----------



## Belushi (Mar 19, 2013)

fogbat said:


> I don't.


 
You're like a mascot.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 19, 2013)

fogbat said:


> I don't.


That'd be your tiny hands.


----------



## fogbat (Mar 19, 2013)

Greebo said:


> That'd be your tiny hands.


All Welsh people have tiny hands, apart from the ones that don't.


----------



## Firky (Mar 19, 2013)

editor said:


> We're the race that wins at rugby.


 
This time!


----------

