# Tipping in the US?



## mattie (Jul 29, 2008)

Quick question, is it true that tipping in the US is a socially compulsory thing?  If so, what are going rates for various everyday items/services, such as drinks at bar, restaurant, taxi etc?

I've heard it's at 20% which just seems bonkers.


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 29, 2008)

It's the thing to do unless you've had poor service. I had to explain to an American tourist that tipping is something you do in restaurants and taxis in the UK but not everywhere else and she was incredulous.


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## editor (Jul 29, 2008)

*Always* give a dollar tip per drink. If you see a band, don't be surprised if you're expected to put money in the hat after their performance. Unlike the UK, many bar staff aren't on set wages, so without tips they'd struggle to survive. If you buy enough beers and tip, you sometimes get a freebie back.

Tipping at restaurants, cafes and cabs etc is also pretty much expected, but you can pay what you think is a fair amount. Give them a stingy tip though and you can expect a long wait next time.


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## baldrick (Jul 29, 2008)

mattie said:


> Quick question, is it true that tipping in the US is a socially compulsory thing? If so, what are going rates for various everyday items/services, such as drinks at bar, restaurant, taxi etc?
> 
> I've heard it's at 20% which just seems bonkers.


yeah, i think a lot of service staff get a basic pay rate which is a pittance and your tips basically go towards giving them a decent wage.


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## mattie (Jul 29, 2008)

So, make sure I've a load of dollar bills handy then.

How much is a beer in the US?  A dollar tip sounds very close to 20%.  If I just did the usual 10% in restaurants, would that be acceptable?  Is NY any different from other places in the US (e.g. Florida)?

I'm not asking just to be tight, I just object to 'enforced' gratuities (how are you expected to indicate genuine gratitude?) but would prefer to remain within some local convention.


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## spring-peeper (Jul 29, 2008)

baldrick said:


> yeah, i think a lot of service staff get a basic pay rate which is a pittance and your tips basically go towards giving them a decent wage.



iirc they get paid below minimum wage


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## spring-peeper (Jul 29, 2008)

Mrs Magpie said:


> It's the thing to do unless you've had poor service. I had to explain to an American tourist that tipping is something you do in restaurants and taxis in the UK but not everywhere else and she was incredulous.



Out of curiousity, what else was she used to tipping for?

(I'm lousy at figuring out who to tip and was wondering who I forgot)


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## baldrick (Jul 29, 2008)

I wouldn't be at all surprised at that spring-peeper.

I believe some restaurants in London have started doing this too.  Shameful.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 29, 2008)

spring-peeper said:


> iirc they get paid below minimum wage



It varies by state but quite frequently, yes (and minimum wage is a joke in the US anyway).

I never worked out the exact social conventions, which vary by area, type of shop and so on anyway. I used to just do 15% rounded up to the nearest dollar, or 20% rounded down, depending on the price. I was told by natives that that would generally be okay.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 29, 2008)

The good thing about tipping is that its usually worth it - people in the States often provide 'customer service' thats amazing - about as far away as having yer pint of fosters slammed onto the bar and a surley grunt as your given the change as you can get...


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## Fullyplumped (Jul 29, 2008)

The thing about tipping in the USA is that it's the custom of the land. We are foreign visitors, and it isn't for us to complain because things are different in their country. 

The custom is 15 to 20 per cent and a dollar per drink.

Obviously we shouldn't put up with that nonsense here, but minimum wage in the UK is eleven dollars an hour. It's only seven dollars 25 cents in New York.


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2008)

It really annoys me being *expected* to tip 15% everytime I'm in the States.

I once went to this tapas restaurant and the waiter actually came back to the table because I gave him a $5 tip for a $100ish meal which was apparently 'too small' WTF?! Say, a £2.50 tip in the UK for a £50 meal i think is fine, I'd pay more if the service was exceptional but this guy was nothing special. I wouldn't be tipping £7.50 by myself on my wages. I certainly wouldn't have the gall to come back and question the service if I was a waiter. Pissed me right off.

I don't have too much of a problem with the dollar at the bar thing, but I'd rather everyone was paid a bit more and we didn't have to tip EVERYTIME unless there was a special reason to. It's one of lifes big cultural divides though isn't it. Like in Japan, nobody tips so I've heard.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 29, 2008)

Dollar a drink definitely wasn't universal when I was there. I certainly saw some people when they were sitting at the bar lining up dollars under a shot glass or something, and the barman would take them when they left I assume. But I went out to quite a few other places where none of the Americans with me were tipping, particularly if they were sitting at a table with drinks and there was no table service.


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## Fullyplumped (Jul 29, 2008)

I think the point is that the US is a foreign country, skyscraper101. 

Apparently if you get tips, the US minimum wage is actually only $2.13 per hour, as long as the hourly wage plus tipped income result in the Federal US minimum of $6.55 per hour. The UK minimum wage is the highest in the world, at an equivalent of $21,262 per annum. Things are different there. It doesn't do to get upset at foreigners and their funny ways.

But I don't agree that £2.50 tip for a £50 meal is fine!


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## rutabowa (Jul 29, 2008)

mattie said:


> So, make sure I've a load of dollar bills handy then.
> 
> How much is a beer in the US?  A dollar tip sounds very close to 20%.  If I just did the usual 10% in restaurants, would that be acceptable?  Is NY any different from other places in the US (e.g. Florida)?
> 
> I'm not asking just to be tight, I just object to 'enforced' gratuities (how are you expected to indicate genuine gratitude?) but would prefer to remain within some local convention.



tip a dollar a drink and you usually get the 3rd or 4th free. it's an ok system once you get used to it.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 29, 2008)

Fullyplumped said:


> *The UK minimum wage is the highest in the world*, at an equivalent of $21,262 per annum.


It most certainly is not. Where on earth did you get that idea from?


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## baldrick (Jul 29, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> It really annoys me being *expected* to tip 15% everytime I'm in the States.
> 
> I once went to this tapas restaurant and the waiter actually came back to the table because I gave him a $5 tip for a $100ish meal which was apparently 'too small' WTF?! Say, a £2.50 tip in the UK for a £50 meal i think is fine, I'd pay more if the service was exceptional but this guy was nothing special.


 
Christ almighty.  If you can't afford to tip appropriately on a $100 meal, then go somewhere cheaper.  Good for the waiter for calling you on it, that tip was insulting, you might as well have not bothered.


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## Biglittlefish (Jul 29, 2008)

The tax is usually displayed on your bill. Double that and you should be fine.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 29, 2008)

Min wage in Denmark is around £10 per hour. I'd be very happy to pay everyone at least that and scrap tipping altogether. If you don't like the service you won't go back, so there would still be an incentive to provide good service. Plus, if you include it in the price, then nobody can get out of paying for service: at the moment, tippers effectively subsidise non-tippers. The US system seems degrading to me - waitresses in bars with their hands out waiting for you to give them something, hitching up their skirts to get an extra dollar. It's horrible.


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## ymu (Jul 29, 2008)

Fullyplumped said:


> The UK minimum wage is the highest in the world, at an equivalent of $21,262 per annum.


Umm, no. 

It's £5.25/hour, which is £210 for a 40 hour week or £10,500/year if you take fuck all holiday.


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## spring-peeper (Jul 29, 2008)

Oh yes - don't forget to tip the delivery person if you order take-out (take-away)!!!

My son cleared an extra $50 last night thanks to the generousity of others.


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## Fullyplumped (Jul 29, 2008)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It most certainly is not. Where on earth did you get that idea from?



I got that idea from here. 

I do see that the Irish hourly minimum wage is reportedly higher, and it doesn't cite the Danish minimum wage. Perhaps those better informed could help Wikipedia out!


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## spring-peeper (Jul 29, 2008)

ymu said:


> Umm, no.
> 
> It's £5.25/hour, which is £210 for a 40 hour week or £10,500/year if you take fuck all holiday.



That's more than you get here in Ontario.  Here it is £4.40, £3.??? for restaurant employees.  Our holiday pay is included in that - you don't take the holiday, they will give you the cash.


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## Fullyplumped (Jul 29, 2008)

ymu said:


> Umm, no.
> 
> It's £5.25/hour, which is £210 for a 40 hour week or £10,500/year if you take fuck all holiday.



The UK minimum wage is presently £5.52 per hour (aged 22 and older), £4.60 per hour (aged 18-21) or £3.40 per hour (under 18 and finished compulsory education).

From October 2008, these rates will rise to £5.73, £4.77 and £3.53 respectively.


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## spring-peeper (Jul 29, 2008)

Fullyplumped said:


> I got that idea from here.
> 
> I do see that the Irish hourly minimum wage is reportedly higher, and it doesn't cite the Danish minimum wage. Perhaps those better informed could help Wikipedia out!



I checked on the Canada entry coz I wanted to see how they handed it. Our minimum wage is set by the province.  Yip - they broke it down that way.  Also noticed that they showed that Ontario is still the only province that discrimates on age.  You get an instant pay increase once you turn 18.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 29, 2008)

Fullyplumped said:


> I got that idea from here.
> 
> I do see that the Irish hourly minimum wage is reportedly higher, and it doesn't cite the Danish minimum wage. Perhaps those better informed could help Wikipedia out!


A cursory glance at that list showed me this figure for France:

€8.71 per hour

That's about £7 at current exchange rates.


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2008)

baldrick said:


> Christ almighty.  If you can't afford to tip appropriately on a $100 meal, then go somewhere cheaper.  Good for the waiter for calling you on it, that tip was *insulting*, you might as well have not bothered.



O Rly? Why? Because society says I have to tip 15% to waiting staff? Why not tip everyone else then that indirectly works in some kind of service for our benefit? It seems unfairly preferential if you ask me.

I'll tip when somebody deserves a tip sure. Like when somebody really puts in an effort, they deserve a little something extra ok, but this tipping 15% automatically is bullshit, as far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 29, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> O Rly? Why? Because society says I have to tip 15% to waiting staff? Why not tip everyone else then that indirectly works in some kind of service for our benefit? It seems unfairly preferential if you ask me.
> 
> I'll tip when somebody deserves a tip sure. Like when somebody really puts in an effort, they deserve a little something extra ok, but this tipping 15% automatically is bullshit, as far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.



That doesn't apply when their wage is $2 per hour. Haven't you seen Reservoir Dogs?


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## baldrick (Jul 29, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> O Rly? Why? Because society says I have to tip 15% to waiting staff? Why not tip everyone else then that indirectly works in some kind of service for our benefit? It seems unfairly preferential if you ask me.
> 
> I'll tip when somebody deserves a tip sure. Like when somebody really puts in an effort, they deserve a little something extra ok, but this tipping 15% automatically is bullshit, as far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.


 
You tip because their job pays rubbish money.  Why should they lose out just because their employer doesn't want to pay them properly?

And out of $100 spent on a meal, is an extra $15 really that much?  No, it isn't.  Like I said, if you can't afford to tip appropriately, then go somewhere cheaper.


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## Fullyplumped (Jul 29, 2008)

Anyway - the point is that the USA is different to the UK. British employers have to pay waiting staff more because the law says they must. US employers can get away with paying them buttons, so tips are effectively their wage. British people visiting the US ought not to complain about the customs over there - we should follow the rules, and pay up gracefully. After all, we're on holiday, and they aren't!


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## mattie (Jul 29, 2008)

Biglittlefish said:


> The tax is usually displayed on your bill. Double that and you should be fine.



Easy to remember, I like it.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 29, 2008)

rutabowa said:


> tip a dollar a drink and you usually get the 3rd or 4th free. it's an ok system once you get used to it.



A buy back.


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## mattie (Jul 29, 2008)

Fullyplumped said:


> Anyway - the point is that the USA is different to the UK. British employers have to pay waiting staff more because the law says they must. US employers can get away with paying them buttons, so tips are effectively their wage. British people visiting the US ought not to complain about the customs over there - we should follow the rules, and pay up gracefully. After all, we're on holiday, and they aren't!



This is sort of my point - are there actually rules?  If so, what are they, how much do they insist upon, what does somebody do to earn them?  That's the point of discretionary gratuities, it doesn't seem so discretionary in the States.

Anyway, I'll be tipping barstaff a dollar per drink, taxis I'll give a few dollars to, and restaurants get twice the tax.  I can't think who else I'll be tipping, I hate being waited on in any case so discouraging them is a good thing.


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## ymu (Jul 29, 2008)

.


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## Detroit City (Jul 29, 2008)

mattie said:


> Quick question, is it true that tipping in the US is a socially compulsory thing?  If so, what are going rates for various everyday items/services, such as drinks at bar, restaurant, taxi etc?
> 
> I've heard it's at 20% which just seems bonkers.



at a bar tip $1 per drink, 15% at a regular restaurant and 20% at a nice one....taxi drivers and pizza delivery get about 10%.   the tip is based upon the before tax amount 

valets get $1 extra on top of their regular fee

enjoy


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## mattie (Jul 29, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> at a bar tip $1 per drink, 15% at a regular restaurant and 20% at a nice one....taxi drivers and pizza delivery get about 10%.   the tip is based upon the before tax amount
> 
> valets get $1 extra on top of their regular fee
> 
> enjoy



Nice one, cheers.  Dollar bills all round for the little bits, 10-15% for others and bumped up to 20% for genuinely good service.


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## rutabowa (Jul 29, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> A buy back.



yes that's it i couldn't remember the name for it


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## Yelkcub (Jul 29, 2008)

mattie said:


> So, make sure I've a load of dollar bills handy then.
> 
> .



You'll find you get given your change almost entirely in dollar bills for that very reason. And my experience, the service is well worth a good tip!


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## mattie (Jul 29, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> A buy back.



So, this is a formal thing, or does it involve copious flirting with barmaids?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 29, 2008)

mattie said:


> So, this is a formal thing, or does it involve copious flirting with barmaids?



My first buy back involved some flirting but I don't think it affected the outcome. 

I don't think it happens in all bars, my friend from New York had never really come accross it herself (when I asked) .


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2008)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That doesn't apply when their wage is $2 per hour. Haven't you seen Reservoir Dogs?



The federal minimum wage in the US is $5.85, and where I was the minimum state wage was $7.15. Yes I've seen reservoir dogs, and I'm with Mr. Pink. Why should you tip one section of society that serves food and not another? You don't give even loose change to McDonalds staff, so why do I have to give $15 to a waiter that didn't do anything spectacular other than bring out food and drink?



baldrick said:


> You tip because their job pays rubbish money.  Why should they lose out just because their employer doesn't want to pay them properly?



That's the government's fault for making minimum wage so low. Its not fair but its how it is. Why should I have to supplement the wages of restaurant waiting staff if the restaurant doesn't even acknowledge them to be any more worthy than a street cleaner or a retail assistant? I thought the waiter in my case deserved an extra $5 sure but I've had more attentive air stewards in the past and didn't feel the need to tip them because it wasn't the done thing, though they probably deserved it more imho.


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## rutabowa (Jul 29, 2008)

mattie said:


> So, this is a formal thing, or does it involve copious flirting with barmaids?



it's not formal but it's pretty common. in New York too. it does mean you have to stay a fair while at one place though.


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## mattie (Jul 29, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> My first buy back involved some flirting but I don't think it affected the outcome.
> 
> I don't think it happens in all bars, my friend from New York had never really come accross it herself (when I asked) .



Was it clear that it happened (i.e. did they say it outright, or just bill for fewer drinks)?  I can see uncomfortable moments trying to figure out if the waitress has given a free drink or is just too thick to add up.

As an aside, I was told when I went to Las Vegas to sit round playing a slot machine for a little while and I'd get a free drink - presumably to get pissed people gambling.  I played for an hour and got nothing.  I reckon it's a rumour spread to get people gambling in the hope of getting pissed.


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## mattie (Jul 29, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> The federal minimum wage in the US is $5.85, and where I was the minimum state wage was $7.15. Yes I've seen reservoir dogs, and I'm with Mr. Pink. Why should you tip one section of society that serves food and not another? You don't give even loose change to McDonalds staff, so why do I have to give $15 to a waiter that didn't do anything spectacular other than bring out food and drink?
> 
> 
> 
> That's the government's fault for making minimum wage so low. Its not fair but its how it is. Why should I have to supplement the wages of restaurant waiting staff if the restaurant doesn't even acknowledge them to be any more worthy than a street cleaner or a retail assistant? I thought the waiter in my case deserved an extra $5 sure but I've had more attentive air stewards in the past and didn't feel the need to tip them because it wasn't the done thing, though they probably deserved it more imho.




I think tipping 20% is bonkers - the restaurant pays rates, utilities, taxes, bills etc, how one person is worth 20% of that is beyond me (even if there is a tronc - sp? -  system in operation)

Still, when in Rome.  I'll be doing it at any rate.


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## Detroit City (Jul 29, 2008)

mattie said:


> I think tipping 20% is bonkers -



generally tipping 20% to 25% is reserved to the higher end restaurants where you may have a few people waiting on your table instead of just one....it's meant to cover them all 

at most places you just tip 15% and if you get shite service you tip 10%


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 29, 2008)

mattie said:


> Quick question, is it true that tipping in the US is a socially compulsory thing?  If so, what are going rates for various everyday items/services, such as drinks at bar, restaurant, taxi etc?
> 
> I've heard it's at 20% which just seems bonkers.



I suspect that restaurant meals are cheaper in the US than most other places.   The tip is just part of the cost of going out and even with tip will likely be less than the UK.  

And yes, we tip a lot of places.  I tip my hairdresser.  God forbid I don't and get a bad haircut.  She gives me extras like eyebrow shaping sometimes so it works out.

Oh, and I think the minimum wage for waitstaff is even lower than standard minimum wage.  Something like $2.10 and hour.   They are taxed as if they were making 15% on each customer so its theoretically possible for someone to lose money by waiting on you.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 29, 2008)

mattie said:


> Was it clear that it happened (i.e. did they say it outright, or just bill for fewer drinks)?  I can see uncomfortable moments trying to figure out if the waitress has given a free drink or is just too thick to add up.
> 
> As an aside, I was told when I went to Las Vegas to sit round playing a slot machine for a little while and I'd get a free drink - presumably to get pissed people gambling.  I played for an hour and got nothing.  I reckon it's a rumour spread to get people gambling in the hope of getting pissed.



I mentioned to the bar maid that other people had been leaving bills on the table  that did not amount to the price of the drink. She then explained that I should be leaving a tip of a $1 each time and I would pay my bill later. After three beers I got given another and she told me it was a buy back from the bar. She said it was because a lot of people only stay for a couple of drinks???????

It was clear that I was getting a free drink because I didn't ask for it. 

I asked what the deal was and was told is the short answer


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## Pingu (Jul 29, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> at a bar tip $1 per drink, 15% at a regular restaurant and 20% at a nice one....taxi drivers and pizza delivery get about 10%. the tip is based upon the before tax amount
> 
> valets get $1 extra on top of their regular fee
> 
> enjoy


 

aye this is pretty much what I follow when over there and it seems to work ok.

having said this if i get really good service I will tip more. like to the bloke in the bar in orlando who went over the road in the pissing down rain and reserved us a seat at a restraunt we wanted to go to when we couldnt get thorugh on the phone. Ok so he possibly got a kickback and we could have gone ourselves but we got good seats and a cracking meal.


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## Detroit City (Jul 29, 2008)

Pingu said:


> having said this if i get really good service I will tip more.



indeed


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## catrina (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm so accustomed now to not tipping very much that I always embarass myself when back in the US. It's a real problem, they don't get paid much, they live on tips, and even if they aren't so good at their job, you really have to think long and hard about 'stiffing' them.

I get really annoyed at people who go to the US and don't tip because they stubbornly don't think they should have to. 

Just as many UK folk get pissed off when people from America come here and ask why you don't celebrate Thanksgiving.

Works both ways, people.


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## Detroit City (Jul 29, 2008)

catrina said:


> Just as many UK folk get pissed off when people from America come here and ask why you don't celebrate Thanksgiving.



are there even any turkeys in the UK?


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 29, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> are there even any turkeys in the UK?



I've seen some posting so there must be.


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## 1927 (Jul 29, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> My first buy back involved some flirting but I don't think it affected the outcome.
> 
> I don't think it happens in all bars, my friend from New York had never really come accross it herself (when I asked) .




I've only ever come across it in NY, so don't know where ya mate is drinking!!

Noone has explined yet that the situation is even worse than the minimum wage being low. I have actually known personally people who PAID for the right to have a job!!!

The bar manager at Windows on The World, the bar atop the WTC in NY, told me that he had to bid in an auction for the job. He had paid that year $100k for the post. The IRS calculated his pay by taking the gross takings of the bar
and reckoned that he would ahve been tipped at 15%, so if anyone didnt tip at that rate he lost out even more. In addition to this he had to pay all the other bar staff out of his tips!! He said that it was worthwhile, so that bar must have been taking a hell of a lot of money.


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## baldrick (Jul 30, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> The federal minimum wage in the US is $5.85, and where I was the minimum state wage was $7.15.


Wait staff get _less_ than minimum wage.  They rely on tips to make up the difference.

Scrooge.  Remind me never to go to a restaurant with you.


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 30, 2008)

baldrick said:


> Wait staff get _less_ than minimum wage.  They rely on tips to make up the difference.



Fuck all that. Tipping should be something extra you pay because someone put in the _extra_ effort when working.

But tipping 15% automatically just because the government expects them to be tipped and then justifies paying _lower_ minimum wage? Thats bullshit. And what it then does is lower the standard of service whereby waiting staff simply have to just do their job to get an extra reward, and if you don't tip, you're more likely to get inferior service the next time.

Its bollocks. Why should I endorse their policy through automatically tipping some 'socially' required minimum just because the government refuses to pay them as equally as a street cleaner?


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## baldrick (Jul 30, 2008)

Don't endorse them at all - don't go to restaurants in the US, remove yourself from their system completely.

That way you can legitimately complain.

But right now you look like a complete miser - saying these wait staff haven't earned your money - what possible fucking difference does an extra $15 make on a $100 meal?


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## miss direct (Jul 30, 2008)

I hate tipping, I feel so awkward about it and never know how much to give. Here in the UK I only tip if I've had good service in a restaurant, or a good haircut. 

I'm going to New York for five weeks soon and am on such a limited budget that I think I'm just going to avoid eating out and drinking. I simply can't afford to tip that much. 

Remember being in New York before, close to where the WTC used to be. A guy had a little stall with paintings, and a big sign saying "Looking is a town in China, tipping is standard in the USA." Oh, so I should tip just to glance at his tacky paintings? I also had a guy accost me at the Port Authority, "helping" me with my bags. I thought "ooh, people are friendly here", (to be fair, I was 20, alone, and had just got there) until he stood threateningly close to me, hawking me till I gave him money. That won't happen again! I'll keep a firm grip on my own bags!


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 30, 2008)

baldrick said:


> Don't endorse them at all - don't go to restaurants in the US, remove yourself from their system completely.
> 
> That way you can legitimately complain.
> 
> But right now you look like a complete miser - saying these wait staff haven't earned your money - what possible fucking difference does an extra $15 make on a $100 meal?



On that premise we should be handing over dollar bills to anyone who serves us anything - the guy in the shoe shop, the bus driver, the air stewardess, the staff in KFC. Do they work any less hard? You don't feel the need to tip them everytime... Why should it be 'accepted' that you hand over 15% regardless of the quality of service in some jobs and not others?


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## baldrick (Jul 30, 2008)

Because they get paid at least minimum wage.

How many times do people have to say this?

You sir, are a tool.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 30, 2008)

If you know the people waiting on you are being paid $2 per hour, and the service has been at least tolerably ok, but you do not tip, you are a cunt.


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## baldrick (Jul 30, 2008)

one of my favourite blogs:

http://waiterrant.net/


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 30, 2008)

_"Hey, I'm very sorry that the government taxes their tips. That's fucked up. But that ain't my fault. It would appear that waitresses are just one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. You show me a paper says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college bullshit you're telling me, I got two words for that: "Learn to fuckin type." Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big fuckin surprise."_


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## baldrick (Jul 30, 2008)

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/food/2008/07/oh_no_british_people.html

hahahahaha


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 30, 2008)

> if I get another bad tip from a British person - I'll nuke the country from space.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 30, 2008)

I liked this comment too:



> It's probably why similar to why i always hated serving yanks in bars and clubs. Not being allowed to collect tips we were instead rewarded by the management relative to how much business we did. A group of yanks meant a shitty night for us, on account of their damned sensible apporach to drinking a reasonable amount and not getting bladdered. Inconsiderate.



It's true.


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## rachamim18 (Jul 30, 2008)

It is pretty much a given in many cases. Resturants are 15% as a rule of thumb although most leave 20 unless you get crappy service and/or food and then it can get as low as 0. Taxis, porets, and haircutters are 1 dollar only no matter the price although one can tip more if service is great. Also, if you fgot to very ethnic areas like NYC's many Chinatowns realise that most service workers are getting robbed on their tips so try to tip them in a no descipt way so their bosses do not get their payoff on it.


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## Dr. Furface (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't like having to tip but when I'm in the US I'm usually impressed by the standard of service in bars and restaurants, both the pleasantness of the staff and their efficiency, so I don't mind so much. When you come back you really notice how bad the standards of service generally are here, and it makes me wish that we operated the same system. If we did you certainly wouldn't get the kind of miserable, surly, rude and slow service that is so commonplace here that we just about take it for granted.


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## tarannau (Jul 30, 2008)

Dr. Furface said:


> ... and it makes me wish that we operated the same system. If we did you certainly wouldn't get the kind of miserable, surly, rude and slow service that is so commonplace here that we just about take it for granted.



To be fair it probably wouldn't happen, well not with not tightwad arses like Skyscraper anyway. $5 on a $100 meal - what a cheapskate shithead.


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## Dr. Furface (Jul 30, 2008)

Sadly, I think you're right - crap service is a major part of British culture, like shit public transport, and lots of other things that are rubbish that we put up with.


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## 1927 (Jul 30, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> Fuck all that. Tipping should be something extra you pay because someone put in the _extra_ effort when working.
> 
> But tipping 15% automatically just because the government expects them to be tipped and then justifies paying _lower_ minimum wage? Thats bullshit. And what it then does is lower the standard of service whereby waiting staff simply have to just do their job to get an extra reward, and if you don't tip, you're more likely to get inferior service the next time.
> 
> Its bollocks. Why should I endorse their policy through automatically tipping some 'socially' required minimum just because the government refuses to pay them as equally as a street cleaner?



Look at it like this.

When it says $20 on the menu, it is actually $23, but they would like you to give the $3 direct to the waiter to save them the hassle.

If you dont agree with the culture don't go there. simple as.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 30, 2008)

1927 said:


> Look at it like this.
> 
> When it says $20 on the menu, it is actually $23, but they would like you to give the $3 direct to the waiter to save them the hassle.
> 
> If you dont agree with the culture don't go there. simple as.



Its not as bad parts of Mexico.  You have to tip your boss in many jobs such as manufacturing.  Often a bottle of booze or some such is expected here and there just as a gratuity for having a job.


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## spring-peeper (Jul 30, 2008)

1927 said:


> Look at it like this.
> 
> When it says $20 on the menu, it is actually $23, but they would like you to give the $3 direct to the waiter to save them the hassle.
> 
> If you dont agree with the culture don't go there. simple as.



Actually, it may say $20 on the menu, but you forgot to add the sales tax on top of that.  Then you add the tip.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 30, 2008)

Dr. Furface said:


> I don't like having to tip but when I'm in the US I'm usually impressed by the standard of service in bars and restaurants, both the pleasantness of the staff and their efficiency, so I don't mind so much. When you come back you really notice how bad the standards of service generally are here, and it makes me wish that we operated the same system. If we did you certainly wouldn't get the kind of miserable, surly, rude and slow service that is so commonplace here that we just about take it for granted.



To be honest, long term, I've not noticed very much difference. Initially in the US I thought "wow everyone in retail is really keen" but I think it's just the novelty of some of the standard phrases, which you are used to over here and just blank out.

Try going to a state liquor store in Philadelphia. They're not nasty people, they just clearly don't give a shit. I imagine a few years of dealing with walk-in alcoholics will do that to you - it seems a bit unfair on the staff that the only place you can (legally) get jug wine or cheap spirits is where they work, most cities at least spread it around a bit.


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## Detroit City (Jul 30, 2008)

I dont' even feel like tipping anymore after reading all this shite


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## N_igma (Jul 31, 2008)

I'd imagine tipping is more of a thing done in rural areas than big cities?


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## D (Jul 31, 2008)

mattie said:


> So, make sure I've a load of dollar bills handy then.
> 
> How much is a beer in the US?  A dollar tip sounds very close to 20%.  If I just did the usual 10% in restaurants, would that be acceptable?  Is NY any different from other places in the US (e.g. Florida)?
> 
> I'm not asking just to be tight, I just object to 'enforced' gratuities (how are you expected to indicate genuine gratitude?) but would prefer to remain within some local convention.



10% is likely to be seen as an insult/indication that the service was sub-par.
***
N_igma - moo.


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## Fullyplumped (Jul 31, 2008)

Ths is interesting....
_Employers are to be banned from using tips and service charges to "top up" staff pay to meet the minimum wage, under government plans. 

The changes, set to come into force next year, will benefit those working in industries such as restaurants, where tipping is commonplace. Firms are currently allowed to divert service charges into takings. Unions have welcomed the move, saying that not allowing employees to have tips in addition to pay is an "abuse". The national minimum wage, currently £5.52, rises to £5.73 on 1 October._​


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## exitma (Jul 31, 2008)

i've been living in the US for 3 years now and only realised this tipping issue after stumbling upon it on this board.... 

Given my home-grown tipping habits - way off the 20% mark usually - this now explains a lot of things.

Good to know. Europe and the US and like two parallel worlds, sometimes.


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## D (Jul 31, 2008)

You've lived in the US for three years and only just noticed that you're undertipping? Don't your friends give you dirty looks?


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## spring-peeper (Jul 31, 2008)

Hi exitma - welcome to urban 

What part of the States are you from?


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 31, 2008)

N_igma said:


> I'd imagine tipping is more of a thing done in rural areas than big cities?




Just the opposite.  In very rural places you would probably only tip 10%.  Rural people expect to work very hard for very little.

On the other hand, you could tip 15 or 20% and be that nice foreign guy, with the cute accent, who overtipped.  In a small town they'd talk about it for at least a week.


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## D (Jul 31, 2008)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Just the opposite.  In very rural places you would probably only tip 10%.  Rural people expect to work very hard for very little.



I think it was a cow-tipping joke.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 31, 2008)

D said:


> I think it was a cow-tipping joke.



Cow-tipping is not a joke.


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## XR75 (Jul 31, 2008)

Can I get some free money too?I mean if some of you have it to give away to people just doing their job I'm sure you can waste a little more.


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## _angel_ (Jul 31, 2008)

I didn't realise barstaff got paid so little in the US! I'm unlikely to ever go, but if I did I wouldn't quibble about tipping them. Some people are right tightwads.


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## D (Jul 31, 2008)

_angel_ said:


> I didn't realise barstaff got paid so little in the US! I'm unlikely to ever go, but if I did I wouldn't quibble about tipping them. Some people are right tightwads.



Indeed and it's the same with many restaurants.  You can also bet those bartenders and servers (and bussers - we used to give them a cut of our tips when I worked at a restaurant) aren't getting any health insurance with their just-barely-minimum wages.


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## Mikey77 (Aug 1, 2008)

I was in Vegas a few years back, and was waiting for a cab driver to give me my $10 change. I was going to give it right back to him or just tell him to keep it, but he just stared at me. If that was a custom I never want to go back there again. I ended up just giving the money to him, but without going through the motions.


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## keithy (Aug 1, 2008)

well in the UK I pay 10% tip on things as I'm pretty skint, but in US it's clearly different in terms of the wages the staff get etc. 

I always feel bad for giving 10% here though, and usually pay %20 if it's not just me paying. I'm a student/graduate/dole scum afterall


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## miss direct (Aug 1, 2008)

Do you think bar staff in the USA also tip other bar staff when they go out for a drink?

I'm glad I live here, where tips are not expected.


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## Detroit City (Aug 1, 2008)

miss direct said:


> Do you think bar staff in the USA also tip other bar staff when they go out for a drink?



of course they do...and they probably tip more than average because they know how hard the job is and what it's like to get dicked out of a tip...




			
				miss d said:
			
		

> I'm glad I live here, where tips are not expected.


but shite service is expected?


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## miss direct (Aug 1, 2008)

If I'm buying a drink, I don't really care about the service. I'd also rather a smile and chat were genuine, rather than someone just trying to get a tip out of me.


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## Detroit City (Aug 1, 2008)

miss direct said:


> If I'm buying a drink, I don't really care about the service. I'd also rather a smile and chat were genuine, rather than someone just trying to get a tip out of me.



um, don't they have public loos in the UK where you have to put money in them to do potty?  that is totally unheard of in the US.  I've never had to pay a penny to take a piss or shit anywhere


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## miss direct (Aug 1, 2008)

Ha, try going to Poland or most of Europe. At least in the UK there are still some free of charge public toilets.


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## Detroit City (Aug 1, 2008)




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## miss direct (Aug 1, 2008)

"do potty"...ha ha


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## D (Aug 1, 2008)

miss direct said:


> Do you think bar staff in the USA also tip other bar staff when they go out for a drink?



absolutely - DC is 100% right.  Very often the worst tippers are the among the most monied customers.


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## scifisam (Aug 1, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> The federal minimum wage in the US is $5.85, and where I was the minimum state wage was $7.15. Yes I've seen reservoir dogs, and I'm with Mr. Pink. Why should you tip one section of society that serves food and not another? You don't give even loose change to McDonalds staff, so why do I have to give $15 to a waiter that didn't do anything spectacular other than bring out food and drink?



That minimum wage includes tips.



Detroit City said:


> are there even any turkeys in the UK?



We have them at Christmas as is right and proper.

Except I don't because I don't eat meat. 



1927 said:


> I've only ever come across it in NY, so don't know where ya mate is drinking!!
> 
> Noone has explined yet that the situation is even worse than the minimum wage being low. I have actually known personally people who PAID for the right to have a job!!!
> 
> ...



Bloody Hell. What a weird job culture where that happens.



baldrick said:


> one of my favourite blogs:
> 
> http://waiterrant.net/



MY GF reads that a lot, and I was about to post up his recent blog about British customers: Now I have actually heard of at least one British person who refuses to tip, I see what he means.



skyscraper101 said:


> _"Hey, I'm very sorry that the government taxes their tips. That's fucked up. But that ain't my fault. It would appear that waitresses are just one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. You show me a paper says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And this non-college bullshit you're telling me, I got two words for that: "Learn to fuckin type." Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent, you're in for a big fuckin surprise."_



But YOU are not a US citizen and cannot vote or make any changes. All you can do is pay what's expected, or not. 

You're quoting a psycho as back-up, btw. 

TBH, in a proper restaurant (not a cafe or takeaway) I'd consider 5% to be a paltry tip even in the UK. I'd always tip a minimum of 10% (in cash, even if I were paying the rest by card), and include that in my calculation of how much the meal was going to cost. I thought that was quite normal. Less than 10% = shite service. 

I always tip the takeaway guy and occasionally tip people in cafes too. Maybe this is why I tend to get served quickly and they remember what I order even if I've been there once. And I'm not rich at all - very poor, in fact - but I view tips as part of the cost of the luxury of eating out; it's not something I _have_ to do.


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## scifisam (Aug 1, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> um, don't they have public loos in the UK where you have to put money in them to do potty?  that is totally unheard of in the US.  I've never had to pay a penny to take a piss or shit anywhere



They exist, but they're rare. Besides, McDonald's is always at hand for free loos. 

Miss Direct is right - try Eastern Europe if you want to pay to piss. They also sometimes expect tips. I was actually a toilet attendant for one night on the borders of Slovakia, but that's a long story.


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## quimcunx (Aug 1, 2008)

*waves at scifisam*  

Come and say hello.   

</derail>


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## Detroit City (Aug 1, 2008)

D said:


> absolutely - DC is 100% right.  Very often the worst tippers are the among the most monied customers.



i've talked with a number of valet guys who park the cars at fancy restaurants and they all say that the people with the BMWs, Mercedes and Jaguars are the cheapest tippers and the people with the regular cars tip the most 



scifisam said:


> They exist, but they're rare. Besides, McDonald's is always at hand for free loos.


yea well when i was a little kid in england i remember you had to put money in almost all public toilets....of course this was 35 years ago, maybe you all have seen the error of your ways finally



miss direct said:


> "do potty"...ha ha


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## paolo (Aug 1, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> of course they do...and they probably tip more than average because they know how hard the job is and what it's like to get dicked out of a tip...



After I worked in a bar DJing, and found out how little the waiting staff were paid, my tipping went up in places like that. They were getting £120 per *week*, working til 2am on Saturdays.


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## baldrick (Aug 1, 2008)

miss direct said:


> Do you think bar staff in the USA also tip other bar staff when they go out for a drink?
> 
> I'm glad I live here, where tips are not expected.


I tip bar staff.  I know a lot of other people who do too. Not every time, but i know how much it's appreciated as I've worked behind bars for a long time.

If I worked behind a bar in the US where my basic pay was $2/hr, damn right i'd expect a tip!

I'm actually quite surprised at the amount of people on this board who seem to actively resent tipping


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## chilango (Aug 1, 2008)

US style tipping has spread thru North America.

In Mexico everybody gets tipped. Kinda merges in with bribing a little. You even have to tip some guy who hangs around the toilets!

In Canada, we were sat in the bar sorting out our exact change for the bus, when the waitress walked past, saw the coins and sniffily said "I don't accept small change". No tip for her! (she would've got 15 - 20% daft cow).

Another bad thing is a lot of places automatically add 10% service charge. Now, do you add extra to that?

What about the tip jars on the counters of fast food joints?

Phh.

Crazy.


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## miss direct (Aug 1, 2008)

I don't resent tipping per se. But I resent the many bad attitudes that come along with it. I had a very poor, rude waiter in Prague. We didn't tip on the basis of that. He then returned to the table, snarled "tip is not included in price" and stood there, arms folded, blocking our way out.


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## baldrick (Aug 1, 2008)

Bloody hell, that's a bit harsh innit! demanding money with menaces 

what did you do?


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## miss direct (Aug 1, 2008)

One of my friends got all flustered and started rummaging for money, the other two of us just got up, ignored him and pushed past him!


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## miss direct (Aug 1, 2008)

Detroit City said:


>




Cultural difference. Brits generally don't like to tip so much, Americans "go potty", while in the UK, only toddlers use a potty, the rest of us go to the toilet.


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## spring-peeper (Aug 1, 2008)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Just the opposite.  In very rural places you would probably only tip 10%.  Rural people expect to work very hard for very little.
> 
> On the other hand, you could tip 15 or 20% and be that nice foreign guy, with the cute accent, who overtipped.  In a small town they'd talk about it for at least a week.



Not in the rural areas that I live in.  

You tip only 10% and we will talk about the nice foriegn guy with the cute accent who doesn't understand the tipping.  We would mull it over for about a week and decide to "educate" any other nice foriegn guys with cute accents on the correct tipping amount.

(This, of course, doesn't apply to Americans.  We just roll our eyes, sigh and say "Americans" as if that explains this and all other faux pas's they will have made in our town  )


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## D (Aug 1, 2008)

*re mattie's question*

Funny that you should ask about NY and Florida.  I can say something about NYC and South Beach (Miami Beach).

In NY tip is NOT included in the bill unless you've got a large party.  In South Beach, 15-18% is automatically added to most bills and, most of the time, in South Beach the service is terrible.  I can't recommend some exceptions to that generalization, but in my experience it's true.

Not so in other parts of Miami - service is not always included and service is not always terrible.

I don't add tip to my bill in South Beach when I have the misfortune to dine in one of the not-so-well-served restaurants (which, thankfully, rarely occurs).


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## D (Aug 1, 2008)

miss direct said:


> Cultural difference. Brits generally don't like to tip so much, Americans "go potty", while in the UK, only toddlers use a potty, the rest of us go to the toilet.





Adults generally do not "go potty" in the US either.  This is a mystifying sidetrack in the thread.


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## miss direct (Aug 1, 2008)

I heard a lot of people say it when I was there.


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## D (Aug 1, 2008)

miss direct said:


> I heard a lot of people say it when I was there.



We must run in different circles.


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