# Brixton news, rumours and general chat - November 2017



## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

After the full on fisticuffs of the tempestuous October thread,  let's hope things calm down with November thread.


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## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

Here's something spicy to get the month off. This was posted on FB by Brixton Splash:

Brixton Splash

So Lambeth Council is bidding for 'London's Borough of Culture'. After getting rid of Brixton's biggest cultural event we're baffled. But it does now shed some light on the reason behind that beautiful 20ft portrait of local rasta Michael Johns on Pope's Road, which had left us scratching our head. We've taken a look at the official website for Lambeth's bid (Home - OurLambeth) and couldn't help but notice that the photographs on it are predominantly of people from the black community (like the one below), the very same community who argue that they are being systematically pushed out and their cultural heritage decimated by Lambeth Council and its gentrification process. It poses the question, why does Lambeth Council use black people and culture to promote its culture bid when we are all very much aware that that said culture is a now only apparent in tokenism form?

It appears black people, image and culture is great for others to capitalise on, whether it be in their funding bids littered with black images or as facades for 'urban' or ' Caribbean' eateries owned by people from other ethnicities. Whilst at the same time these very same people are trampled over, pushed out, and to put it bluntly continue to be racially discriminated against in every way. 'We like your look and your culture but we don't like you' is essentially what the new Brixton says. For those of you raising an eyebrow, have you read Theresa May's Disparity Report or the Lammy Review?

The council is using #OurLambeth as a way to promote their funding bid. Perhaps some of the local community should use that hashtag to say what #OurLambeth really means to/for them.


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## Cpatain Rbubish (Nov 1, 2017)

Well said.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 1, 2017)

Is the November thread going to be the 'new reality'?


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## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Is the November thread going to be the 'new reality'?


Entrepreneurs Norman Tebbit Edition.


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## Tropi (Nov 1, 2017)

For the imbeciles and idiots defending the landlords, rent increases because of 'market forces' and the total local fuck up supported by the hypocritical Nu Labour council (we support small independent business, yeah right...). 
 
https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/09/daily-chart-8


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 1, 2017)

Big shout out for the lovely man in the shoe repair, heel bar & keycutting place in Reliance Arcade.  I'd been to two places that couldn't resole my fave comf shoes, but he could!


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## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> Big shout out for the lovely man in the shoe repair, heel bar & keycutting place in Reliance Arcade.  I'd been to two places that couldn't resole my fave comf shoes, but he could!


He's ace!







The finest cobbler in Brixton – Jay in Reliance Arcade, SW9


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## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

The library closing council that wants to be a Borough Of Culture: 

Library closing Lambeth Council asks residents to back ‘Borough of Culture’ bid


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 1, 2017)

editor said:


> He's ace!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He's the old reality....we're not having any of that here.....put his bloody rent up....make him adapt......make him make sandwiches....shoe sandwiches.....freshly cut loafers


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## xsunnysuex (Nov 1, 2017)

Are tenancy visits the regular thing these days?  Just got home to a letter through the door saying someone had been for a tenancy visit.  Had one this time last year too.  
Actually no,  just checked and it was two years ago.


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## DietCokeGirl (Nov 1, 2017)

xsunnysuex said:


> Are tenancy visits the regular thing these days?  Just got home to a letter through the door saying someone had been for a tenancy visit.  Had one this time last year too.
> Actually no,  just checked and it was two years ago.


As I understand, tenancy audits should be done every 1-2 years, though reality is that doesn't always happen .


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## Gramsci (Nov 1, 2017)

editor said:


> The library closing council that wants to be a Borough Of Culture:
> 
> Library closing Lambeth Council asks residents to back ‘Borough of Culture’ bid



I think the whole concept is wrong. Looking at the Mayor's website.

Mayor launches search for first ever London Borough of Culture

Making different boroughs compete with each other over culture. Yes the Mayor should support culture in London. Turning it into a competition between different boroughs is not bringing communities together. It's making them compete.

Which imo contradicts what the Mayor's press release says.

"Sadiq Khan, Mayor of London, said: “Culture is the DNA of our city. It has the power to transform communities and to bring people closer together. Now, more than ever, there is a pressing need to reach out to our neighbours and celebrate London’s unique and diverse culture. London Borough of Culture is a great way to do just that whilst showing the world that our cultural gems extend way beyond the centre of the capital to all corners of the city."

A competition is the wrong way to do it. Channeling funding through local Councils is also wrong. People don't trust Councils to support culture. See gym libraries for example. A cultural idea foisted on the community with no consultation.

What Sadiq could do is to try to make culture more affordable. I heard complaints that it's not. A lot of culture is only accessible for the well off now. Lambeth has plenty of culture without any Lambeth council input. I really don't see why the desk jockeys in Lambeth should get grant to give out to groups who will be obliged to be grateful. Winning the competition would give the Council more power not the community.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 2, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> What Sadiq could do is to try to make culture more affordable. I heard complaints that it's not. A lot of culture is only accessible for the well off now.


I think London is amazing in some aspects for providing culture for cheap or free. Museums being the main example.

Other areas are very expensive but always have been. Opera and ballet for example.

What aspects do you think have become only accessible to the well off now? If you regard sport as culture (and I do) the major sporting fixtures are ruinously expensive now.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 2, 2017)

xsunnysuex said:


> Are tenancy visits the regular thing these days?  Just got home to a letter through the door saying someone had been for a tenancy visit.  Had one this time last year too.
> Actually no,  just checked and it was two years ago.



I had someone sniffing around last Friday who we ignored but then put a note through the door asking us to let the council know who lives at the property, if not there was a faint threat of fines.

Whats all that about? Considering its not a council property what fucking business is it of theirs?


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## shakespearegirl (Nov 2, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> I had someone sniffing around last Friday who we ignored but then put a note through the door asking us to let the council know who lives at the property, if not there was a faint threat of fines.
> 
> Whats all that about? Considering its not a council property what fucking business is it of theirs?



Council Tax checks?


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## editor (Nov 2, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> What aspects do you think have become only accessible to the well off now? If you regard sport as culture (and I do) the major sporting fixtures are ruinously expensive now.


In Brixton? Cinema. The Ritzy charges are now thoroughly unaffordable to many locals.


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## CH1 (Nov 2, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> I had someone sniffing around last Friday who we ignored but then put a note through the door asking us to let the council know who lives at the property, if not there was a faint threat of fines.
> 
> Whats all that about? Considering its not a council property what fucking business is it of theirs?


Do you think it might be canvassers from the electoral registration office?

I saw one about in Colharbour Lane the other day. Electoral registration stuff also has legal sanctions fwicr.


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## colacubes (Nov 2, 2017)

CH1 said:


> Do you think it might be canvassers from the electoral registration office?
> 
> I saw one about in Colharbour Lane the other day. Electoral registration stuff also has legal sanctions fwicr.



Yeah probably this.  They were doing the rounds in my street in West Norwood earlier this week.


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## editor (Nov 2, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> He's the old reality....we're not having any of that here.....put his bloody rent up....make him adapt......make him make sandwiches....shoe sandwiches.....freshly cut loafers


He's a vital addition to Brixton but one rent rise and he'll be gone forever. Unless he follows the advice of some posters here and_ simply_ totally reinvents as a completely different business entity.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2017)

editor said:


> He's a vital addition to Brixton but one rent rise and he'll be gone forever. Unless he follows the advice of some posters here and_ simply_ totally reinvents as a completely different business entity.



I was in there the other day and someone came in and asked him for a beard trim. He explained that he didn't do beard trimming, and the fellow just left. 

He lost a customer because he wouldn't trim his beard. How much effort would it have taken for a cobbler to offer the occasional beard trim? No effort. It's lazy to ignore a customer's needs like that.

That old cobbler needs to adapt to the new reality. There's a lot of beards about these days and they need trimming.

Beard trimming is a good way to make money to pay rent.

Opportunity wasted.

I also think Funeral Directors should be less stuffy and get into Midwifery. Make money at both ends. 

These people can't expect to survive the capitalist crush if they don't multi skill.

It's the new reality. Get with it, kids.


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## teuchter (Nov 2, 2017)

Wasn't there a thread on here a while ago where a few regular posters said that repairs they'd had done at that place were expensive and didn't last?


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## editor (Nov 2, 2017)

And just to reiterate: the guy is a true craftsman. he can create a pair of shoes from scratch. He did a wonderful job repairing a pair of shoes that had been deemed totally unrepairable. I hope he stays there until he chooses to retire as he's been of great service to the area.


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## alcopop (Nov 2, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Wasn't there a thread on here a while ago where a few regular posters said that repairs they'd had done at that place were expensive and didn't last?


This review was on Brixton buzz. Maybe he had a bad day?






Michelle on October 24, 2015 at 12:07 pm


THE WORST EXPERIENCE AND THE RUDEST VERBAL ASSAULT. This is the worst shoe repair in London. I have been going to this guy for 10 years and he has always been bad tempered and rude but the store was convenient so I kept returning. Over the past year, his attitude has worsened, along with his shoddy key cutting (keys that don’t work and then he refuses to replace) and leather repairs (shoe heel leather that falls off and he refuses to replace), culminating today in what I can only describe as verbal assault. After paying £15 for straps to be replaced on my leather bag, only to find he’d used a belt and left the belt holes on the leather bag straps, he then verbally abused me in the shop, told me to f**k off and refused to refund my money after admitting that he lied to me about explaining the repair. Really, the most upsetting experience and the worst repair, and now I’m left with a bag I can’t use and £15 out of pocket. AVOID AT ALL COSTS. There is another shoe repair guy at the end of Reliance Arcade – I will be trying him next and urging all people to boycott this business.


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## editor (Nov 2, 2017)

alcopop said:


> This review was on Brixton buzz. Maybe he had a bad day?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why go out of your way to dish the dirt on this guy by reposting a negative review from elsewhere from two years ago? 

There's plenty of people - including myself - who have been very pleased with his work.


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## organicpanda (Nov 2, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I was in there the other day and someone came in and asked him for a beard trim. He explained that he didn't do beard trimming, and the fellow just left.
> 
> He lost a customer because he wouldn't trim his beard. How much effort would it have taken for a cobbler to offer the occasional beard trim? No effort. It's lazy to ignore a customer's needs like that.
> 
> ...


I heard The Old Post Office Bakery was teaming up with West Norwood Crematorium to reduce costs for both parties, they are also able to supply fresh hot food straight after the cremation, win win


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## editor (Nov 2, 2017)

organicpanda said:


> I heard The Old Post Office Bakery was teaming up with West Norwood Crematorium to reduce costs for both parties, they are also able to supply fresh hot food straight after the cremation, win win


That's the spirit. It's all about _loving the entrepreneurs_ these days. There's no excuse to be unemployed when you can entrepreneurify!


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## SpamMisery (Nov 2, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Wasn't there a thread on here a while ago where a few regular posters said that repairs they'd had done at that place were expensive and didn't last?



I haven't used him but that was my impression of his services based on the comments made on here a while back.


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## SpamMisery (Nov 2, 2017)

In fact it was here While you wait shoe repair Brixton?

Looks like only two negative comments but they are what stuck in my head


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## organicpanda (Nov 2, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> I haven't used him but that was my impression of his services based on the comments made on here a while back.


I have used to get keys cut and never had to take them back because they didn't work and mrs panda has been able to keep boots going for the last 4 years that others told her were beyond repair


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## trabuquera (Nov 2, 2017)

Happy to report completely mixed experience: he rescued a much loved handbag with an ingenious, cheap and durable repair, then ruined a much loved pair of shoes with a complete bodge-up of a resoling job which left them leakier and uglier than they were before. So ... ymmv. Overall I think he's a Good Thing.


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## alcopop (Nov 2, 2017)

editor said:


> Why go out of your way to dish the dirt on this guy by reposting a negative review from elsewhere from two years ago?
> 
> There's plenty of people - including myself - who have been very pleased with his work.



You reposted it! I hadn't even seen it until you reposted the link above. 

It was literally you who went out of your way to find an old article from two years ago.


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## editor (Nov 2, 2017)

alcopop said:


> You reposted it! I hadn't even seen it until you reposted the link above.
> 
> It was literally you who went out of your way to find an old article from two years ago.


I reposted a link to the_ *article*_ which was positive about his work- NOT the full text of the one person slagging him off.


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## alcopop (Nov 2, 2017)

editor said:


> I reposted a link to the_ *article*_ which was positive about his work- NOT the full text of the one person slagging him off.


And I was replying to a question from teuchter asking about bad reviews of him.

Judging by other people's experiences it does seem that his work is rather hit and miss though.


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## editor (Nov 2, 2017)

alcopop said:


> And I was replying to a question from teuchter asking about bad reviews of him.


Oh well. Well done.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 2, 2017)

He made a bag strap out of a belt. That is some hipster shit right there.  Renovating vintage clothes and accessories.

Ahead of his time. That customer just wasn't ready for the new reality.

Jay is the bridge taking us to the new world.

He'll be making leather jackets out of discarded Dr Martens before you know it.

"I just wanted my boots fixed"

"fuck you, you have a new jacket.....fucking ingrate....get outta my shop.....you'll wanna fucking beard trim next.....go, get out, never darken my vision for the new reality again"


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## xsunnysuex (Nov 2, 2017)

editor said:


> And just to reiterate: the guy is a true craftsman. he can create a pair of shoes from scratch. He did a wonderful job repairing a pair of shoes that had been deemed totally unrepairable. I hope he stays there until he chooses to retire as he's been of great service to the area.


Yes I second that.  He does an excellent job at a very reasonable price.  And he's a very friendly man too in my opinion.   
I don't know of  other place I could get my shoes heeled for £5.  He was closed for a fair while due to an operation on his spine.  I was really worried he wouldn't come back.


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## editor (Nov 2, 2017)

Anyone else want to dig up old negative reviews of long-term independent Brixton businesses because that's apparently the thing here now? Let's put the boot in!


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## ash (Nov 2, 2017)

xsunnysuex said:


> Yes I second that.  He does an excellent job at a very reasonable price.  And he's a very friendly man too in my opinion.
> I don't know of  other place I could get my shoes heeled for £5.  He was closed for a fair while due to an operation on his spine.  I was really worried he wouldn't come back.


Snap - he's saved many of my boots over the years one pair felt like Triggers broom in fools and horses- soles , heels and zips replaced several times over. He's a great Brixton character but does tell me  off for letting the heels get so bad!! I was also glad to see him back


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## Lambeth Boy (Nov 2, 2017)

When Brixton changes for good ( not if but unfortunately when ! ) people will talk about the lost Characters we had so make most while they’re still in business before Lambeth / Network Rail helped by Brixton BID get their way i.e an open air Westfield !!


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## bimble (Nov 2, 2017)

Never used Jay's services (have been going to the cobblers near the junction in camberwell who are also really good and also £5 for new soles) but next time the trusty boots need a fix will be asking him instead.
Glad to see how many of you are re-soulers, there must be a massive pressure on due to throwaway cheap shoes and the rise of the dreaded trainer.


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## teuchter (Nov 2, 2017)

Referring to people as "characters" always makes me cringe; it's a patronising-middle-class type thing to say and indicates that these businesses/people are valued on an aesthetic basis rather than because they provide a useful service.

To be clear though, I'd certainly agree that it would be hugely to Brixton's detriment if reliance arcade were lost to mainstream development.


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## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Referring to people as "characters" always makes me cringe; it's a patronising-middle-class type thing to say and indicates that these businesses/people are valued on an aesthetic basis rather than because they provide a useful service.
> 
> To be clear though, I'd certainly agree that it would be hugely to Brixton's detriment if reliance arcade were lost to mainstream development.



The reverse is the case. It's patronising middle class thing to see that working class people dont have an aesthetic sense.

There are working class people I work with who miss these shops with "characters". Who don't like the way central London is pushing these "characters" out.


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## bimble (Nov 2, 2017)

Is it ok that I think of teuchter as a Local Character ?


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## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2017)

alcopop said:


> And I was replying to a question from teuchter asking about bad reviews of him.
> 
> Judging by other people's experiences it does seem that his work is rather hit and miss though.



The Brixton Buzz article you posted up has four comments. Three positive and one negative. So if we are to take this as representative sample three quarters are positive. So how is his work hit or miss?


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## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2017)

bimble said:


> Is it ok that I think of teuchter as a Local Character ?



 Actually given what has been happening on these boards recently. No. I've lost my sense of humour. I'm pissed off with Brixton forum. I feel been here for years and this isn't funny.


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## teuchter (Nov 2, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> It's patronising middle class thing to see that working class people dont have an aesthetic sense.



It would simply be nuts to say that "working class people don't have an aesthetic sense".


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## Rushy (Nov 2, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> The reverse is the case. It's patronising middle class thing to see that working class people dont have an aesthetic sense.


That's not the reverse. Is just a totally unrelated statement which also uses the word aesthetic.


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## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2017)

teuchter said:


> It would simply be nuts to say that "working class people don't have an aesthetic sense".



What I'm saying as someone who actually does a working class job and spend most of my time with the working class people your post is more than annoying. 

It's not patronising to support "characters". Nor is it middle class.


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## shifting gears (Nov 2, 2017)

teuchter said:


> it's a patronising-middle-class type thing to say



Oh my [emoji3]


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## SpamMisery (Nov 2, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> The Brixton Buzz article you posted up has four comments. Three positive and one negative. So if we are to take this as representative sample three quarters are positive. So how is his work hit or miss?



A 25% rate of failure is hit and miss in my book. In fact, I wouldnt use a cobbler with those odds. You'd get better results if you used pos/neg from the U75 thread


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## teuchter (Nov 2, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> What I'm saying as someone who actually does a working class job and spend most of my time with the working class people your post is more than annoying.
> 
> It's not patronising to support "characters". Nor is it middle class.


As someone who spends much of my time with the middle class people - I hear people talking about "characters" in a way that makes me cringe and which I find patronising. That's my opinion.

What would you feel like if people described you as a "character"? Maybe you'd be ok with it, I don't know.

And I didn't say it was "patronising to support 'characters'". I said I thought it was patronising to refer to people as 'characters'.


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## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2017)

Jesus FFS. Regular poster puts up positive comment about longstanding local business. Ed posts up old article about said longstanding local business and it ends up starting November like October ended.

Truly nauseating.


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## SpamMisery (Nov 2, 2017)

Ignoring, of course, the fact the first few post before that were people continuing the October beef.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 2, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> A 25% rate of failure is hit and miss in my book. In fact, I wouldnt use a cobbler with those odds. You'd get better results if you used pos/neg from the U75 thread


Ya because with a 25% hit rate if you bring in 2 pairs of shoes then 1 shoe will get fucked up. This means that a pair of shoes is fucked. You can always put the non fucked shoe aside in case you break your leg and have to go in crutches but that’s no real comfort.


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## teuchter (Nov 2, 2017)

The past few months the Brixton thread has been pretty boring tbh - the same very small number of people posting the majority of the material and agreeing with each other. And largely just links to another website.


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## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> Ignoring, of course, the fact the first few post before that were people continuing the October beef.



If you've a problem with the first posts on this thread quote the posts and take issue with them.


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## SpamMisery (Nov 2, 2017)

I dont have a problem with them particularly. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But intentional misdirection is just not cricket. You claimed that the discussions on Jay the cobbler allowed for the continuation of last months argument. Not true; the posts before Jay was introduced were already a continuation.


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## teuchter (Nov 2, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> If you've a problem with the first posts on this thread quote the posts and take issue with them.



This one was clearly a provocation:



Nanker Phelge said:


> He's the old reality....we're not having any of that here.....put his bloody rent up....make him adapt......make him make sandwiches....shoe sandwiches.....freshly cut loafers



- implying for example that people had been calling for people's rent to be increased, or that people wanted to get rid of existing businesses.
Neither of which things had been said.


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## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> I dont have a problem with them particularly. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But intentional misdirection is just not cricket. You claimed that the discussions on Jay the cobbler allowed for the continuation of last months argument. Not true; the posts before Jay was introduced were already a continuation.



Wrong. You and some posters got going after Ed put up link to his article on the cobbler.

I never used the word continuation.


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## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2017)

teuchter said:


> This one was clearly a provocation:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was talking to Spam. Not you. Go on take it up with person who posted it up if you are so upset about it.

 I thought Nankers post was top post. If you want my opinion.


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## SpamMisery (Nov 2, 2017)

I have ed blocked so dont read his posts and am therefore not going after him


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 2, 2017)

editor said:


> Anyone else want to dig up old negative reviews of long-term independent Brixton businesses because that's apparently the thing here now? Let's put the boot in!



(looks for ancient bad offline review)


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## bimble (Nov 2, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> Ignoring, of course, the fact the first few post before that were people continuing the October beef.


I thought October brixton thread was just getting good when we reached the point of whether or not capitalism was “part of nature”. The coming of November is always annoying but this one is worse than usual.


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## SpamMisery (Nov 2, 2017)

I confess I didn't really follow that line of argument


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## bimble (Nov 2, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> I confess I didn't really follow that line of argument


That’s cos you’re a lightweight. You ‘dipped out’ when it got deep.


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## Gramsci (Nov 2, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> I confess I didn't really follow that line of argument



I don't buy that. 

Your profile has old comment of mine on it.

 "He knows what he is doing. He is far from stupid. His posts are deliberate windups."

Still holds true.


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## teuchter (Nov 3, 2017)

bimble said:


> I thought October brixton thread was just getting good when we reached the point of whether or not capitalism was “part of nature”.



What is your view on this question?


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## bimble (Nov 3, 2017)

teuchter said:


> What is your view on this question?


Capitalism is as much a part of nature as sitting down to pee. So, yes.


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## teuchter (Nov 3, 2017)

bimble said:


> Capitalism is as much a part of nature as sitting down to pee. So, yes.


Is urban75 part of nature?


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## bimble (Nov 3, 2017)

better than mosquitoes, arguably.


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## ash (Nov 3, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Referring to people as "characters" always makes me cringe; it's a patronising-middle-class type thing to say and indicates that these businesses/people are valued on an aesthetic basis rather than because they provide a useful service.
> 
> To be clear though, I'd certainly agree that it would be hugely to Brixton's detriment if reliance arcade were lost to mainstream development.


Have you met him? I can't think of another way to describe him after over a decade of knowing him - maybe a Brixton personality ?? Or the face of the reliance arcade  !! He's a decent fella who is a true craftsman and has been around for decades and is part of the fabric of Brixton.  One definition of a character is  ' a person, especially when you are describing a particular quality that they have' ...


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## alcopop (Nov 3, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> I have ed blocked so dont read his posts and am therefore not going after him


Is it possible to block him but still see threads that he started?


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## SpamMisery (Nov 3, 2017)

If you press "show ignored content". The posts are reblocked when you enter the thread


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## alcopop (Nov 3, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> If you press "show ignored content". The posts are reblocked when you enter the thread


Brilliant. Cheers


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## teuchter (Nov 3, 2017)

ash said:


> Have you met him? I can't think of another way to describe him after over a decade of knowing him - maybe a Brixton personality ?? Or the face of the reliance arcade  !! He's a decent fella who is a true craftsman and has been around for decades and is part of the fabric of Brixton.  One definition of a character is  ' a person, especially when you are describing a particular quality that they have' ...


You've just given several ways to describe him, all of which are more meaningful than calling him a "character", which to me is a way of saying someone is a bit of an oddball or a bit crazy, whilst dodging actually saying so. I think most people would probably rather that others didn't refer to them behind their backs as "a bit of a character" because it would suggest people didn't take them very seriously.


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## alcopop (Nov 3, 2017)

teuchter said:


> You've just given several ways to describe him, all of which are more meaningful than calling him a "character", which to me is a way of saying someone is a bit of an oddball or a bit crazy, whilst dodging actually saying so. I think most people would probably rather that others didn't refer to them behind their backs as "a bit of a character" because it would suggest people didn't take them very seriously.


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## T & P (Nov 3, 2017)




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## editor (Nov 3, 2017)

I went to the relaunch of the Hope & Anchor (ex Grand Union) on Acre Lane last night. I forgot how big the place was - two floors with a massive covered garden. I'll post photos later.


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## editor (Nov 3, 2017)

Some things on this weekend: Brixton What’s On: bars, gigs and clubs in and around town this weekend, Fri 3rd – Sun 5th Nov 2017


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## editor (Nov 3, 2017)

Bowie shrine updates: 












Annoyingly, the council have now started clearing the site away every day, so flowers and other items rarely last more than a few hours at the shrine.

Brixton’s David Bowie memorial: photos of tributes and messages seen during October 2017


----------



## T & P (Nov 3, 2017)

Frankly, the council should be clearing the site as often as needed. 22 bloody months after his death, perhaps it's high time people stopped leaving "tributes" there.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2017)

T & P said:


> Frankly, the council should be clearing the site as often as needed. 22 bloody months after his death, perhaps it's high time people stopped leaving "tributes" there.


Then you've got your way. Flowers don't last the day, neither do individual hand made items but - by contrast - there's still a fucking huge mountain of shit to navigate around Rum Kitchen every day/night.

Not sure it's up to you when people should decide when to stop travelling to the site to leave a tribute. Personally I liked seeing some of the weird and wonderful stuff left behind.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 3, 2017)

The agenda for the next Lambeth Council cabinet meeting is now out.

I was rather intrigued by this statement (item 1 of the previous meeting's minutes)

"The Cabinet Member for Healthier and Stronger Communities (job-share), Councillor Jim Dickson, declared that his company (Four Communications) had worked with Port of London Authority which had submitted a response to the consultation for the proposed Lambeth Development Viability Supplementary Planning Document (SPD) to be considered at agenda item six. He would therefore remove himself from the committee during the consideration of this item. Councillor Dickson was also a non voting member of the committee."

Viability assessments are of course the current curse whereby developers demonstrate to the council planning department how they cannot build a development if they are forced to provide social housing.

Would be interested to know which side of the fence Councillor Dickson's firm sits on.


----------



## Angellic (Nov 3, 2017)

editor said:


> Then you've got your way. Flowers don't last the day, neither do individual hand made items but - by contrast - there's still a fucking huge mountain of shit to navigate around Rum Kitchen every day/night.
> 
> Not sure it's up to you when people should decide when to stop travelling to the site to leave a tribute. Personally I liked seeing some of the weird and wonderful stuff left behind.



Its only T&P's opinion.


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## Lizzy Mac (Nov 3, 2017)

Bowie does tend to divide people.  I've noticed this.


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## T & P (Nov 3, 2017)

Lizzy Mac said:


> Bowie does tend to divide people.  I've noticed this.


There is an element of that, yes. I have never been one for leaving tributes either at the scene of a death or at a monument or 'shrine', much less so for someone who died nearly two years ago, and who at the end of the day was a talented and inspirational musician but one with a few well dodgy views. Then again, I would still find it really fucking odd if the deceased in question had been the greatest person who ever lived.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 3, 2017)

T & P said:


> There is an element of that, yes. I have never been one for leaving tributes either at the scene of a death or at a monument or 'shrine', much less so for someone who died nearly two years ago, and who at the end of the day was a talented and inspirational musician but one with a few well dodgy views. Then again, I would still find it really fucking odd if the deceased in question had been the greatest person who ever lived.



I'd steer clear of Paris Cemeteries if I were you....


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## alcopop (Nov 3, 2017)

Angellic said:


> Its only T&P's opinion.


At the end of the day garbage blocking the pavement is garbage blocking the pavement.


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## editor (Nov 3, 2017)

alcopop said:


> At the end of the day garbage blocking the pavement is garbage blocking the pavement.


But the stuff by the Bowie memorial _wasn't_ blocking the pavement. It's on a wide, pedestrianised zone and the stuff there was nowhere as intrusive as Rum Kitchen's daily deposits of rubbish.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 3, 2017)

editor said:


> But the stuff by the Bowie memorial _wasn't_ blocking the pavement. It's on a wide, pedestrianised zone and the stuff there was nowhere as intrusive as Rum Kitchen's daily deposits of rubbish.



Don't feed the trolls


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 3, 2017)

teuchter said:


> As someone who spends much of my time with the middle class people - I hear people talking about "characters" in a way that makes me cringe and which I find patronising. That's my opinion.
> 
> What would you feel like if people described you as a "character"? Maybe you'd be ok with it, I don't know.


 Me and the grlf have been referred to as 'characters'. How do I feel about it? well its better better than the previous 'fucking dykes'.


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## Gramsci (Nov 3, 2017)

CH1 said:


> The agenda for the next Lambeth Council cabinet meeting is now out.
> 
> I was rather intrigued by this statement (item 1 of the previous meeting's minutes)
> 
> ...



Well spotted. Your question is good one. Something for Tricky Skills ?

Reading the minutes and I'm none the wiser.


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## Lizzy Mac (Nov 3, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> Me and the grlf have been referred to as 'characters'. How do I feel about it? well its better better than the previous 'fucking dykes'.


Me too.  It always confuses me a little but I mostly I like it.


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## CH1 (Nov 3, 2017)

News of former councillor:


Charlie Elphicke was a Tory councillor for Gipsy Hill ward 1994-98

Don't know what he had done now - but he is a right pain in the ass pontificating his neo-Fascist Brexit views on Newsnight etc.


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## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

Heartbreaking seeing the shrine on Effra Road tonight for the motorcyclist who lost his life.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 4, 2017)

editor said:


> Heartbreaking seeing the shrine on Effra Road tonight for the motorcyclist who lost his life.



Let's just hope people don't grieve for so long that the items they lay down in memorial become 'litter'....


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## Rushy (Nov 4, 2017)

Beef doesn't come much classier than that.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 4, 2017)

Go fuck yourself.


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## GarveyLives (Nov 4, 2017)

> Heartbreaking seeing the shrine on Effra Road tonight for the motorcyclist who lost his life.


There is more about *Mr Lovelace*, who was killed a week ago:

here

and

here.


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## Rushy (Nov 4, 2017)

There has recently been a change to the road lane markings in the vicinity of the accident to either include or extend a bus lane. I know it confused a few people who use it regularly to begin with. I can't drive at the moment so the first I heard of the changes was one of my neighbours complaining that the road had become one way (it hadn't). I have not heard any reports about how the accident happened but can't help wondering whether this was a contributing factor.


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## shakespearegirl (Nov 4, 2017)

They’ve closed the gates to Brockwell Park early due to fireworks


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## shakespearegirl (Nov 4, 2017)

Security saying only one gate open but they don’t seem to know where it is


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## T & P (Nov 4, 2017)

I look forward to the ticket sales figures for this year...


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## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

T & P said:


> I look forward to the ticket sales figures for this year...


Their 'premier viewing' tickets have sold out but there's tickets on the gate. I'm going along so will report back.


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## shakespearegirl (Nov 4, 2017)

We had to squeeze out through a gap in the railings as all the gates on the Tulse hill side were locked - I was there at 4.10. Security were being helpful and eventually were taking us to the vehicle entrance to let us out when someone from cressingham showed us where the gap was. There were still loads of people in the park at this stage.


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## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

It's such a shame that what used be a real community highlight no longer exists. I miss the days when just about everyone I know hotfooted it up to Brockwell Park for the fireworks.


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## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

File under: what will they think of next: 



> Here’s a story I thought you might be interested in, about the UK’s first ever International Underwater Rugby Tournament, held recently in Putney, London.
> 
> A British Sub-Aqua Club member from Brixton, Jerome Lewis (PURE - Brixton) is among the members of the Pure Underwater Rugby England (PURE) club, which organised the event and is part of the British Sub-Aqua Club (BSAC), the UK governing body for scuba diving and snorkelling.
> 
> The team is keen for more people to get involved in the sport in London and across the UK, to grow the sport nation-wide.


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## shakespearegirl (Nov 4, 2017)

editor said:


> It's such a shame that what used be a real community highlight no longer exists. I miss the days when just about everyone I know hotfooted it up to Brockwell Park for the fireworks.



It, along with the LCF were the best things the council did!


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## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

Quick report: 

 

It wasn't a bad firework display to be fair. There was a lot of food vendors on site but the queues were still huge. There was more loos than I've ever seen for an event this size and putting on a live band was a smart move - instead of the usual mass stampede after the fireworks, loads of people stayed behind. 

I'm not a fan of music thundering out when fireworks are going on but they seemed to cock up the ending when the display hit its finale and the music was still going on, leading people to think more fireworks were coming.


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## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2017)

They are clearing the infrastructure our really quickly, mainly gone by 1130 this morning


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## AnotherAmbition (Nov 5, 2017)

Fireworks was a great show, good fun with the movie themes and the display really synced with the music which I find often isn't the case with these things. Well organised event and having some music before/after was a nice touch, good band!

Seemed about the right number of people for atmosphere but not mobbed, food q's did look long but I guess its hard with the compressed length of an event like this and everyone wanting food at the same time, bars and toilets not too busy.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2017)

CH1 said:


> The agenda for the next Lambeth Council cabinet meeting is now out.
> 
> I was rather intrigued by this statement (item 1 of the previous meeting's minutes)
> 
> ...



This is because The People's Audit and Cllr Ainslie asked questions about Cllr Dickson's neutrality re: who Four Communications has worked with.  They sit on the side of the fence that pays the most, as most companies do.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I'd steer clear of Paris Cemeteries if I were you....



Especially Pere Lachaise.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> Me and the grlf have been referred to as 'characters'. How do I feel about it? well its better better than the previous 'fucking dykes'.



After you gave me the lovely gift of cider during the Country Show in 2016, my compatriot referred to you as "the lovely lady in the hat".  A fiver for the server fund, if you can correctly guess the reply I made!


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2017)

shakespearegirl said:


> Security saying only one gate open but they don’t seem to know where it is



It was Water Lane.  Cressingham Gardens saw some VERY irate ticket-holders who expected to be able to access the park at the Cressingham entrance, but who had to tramp down to Water Lane instead.  Lambeth Council managed to upset several thousand people in less than an hour.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2017)

shakespearegirl said:


> We had to squeeze out through a gap in the railings as all the gates on the Tulse hill side were locked - I was there at 4.10. Security were being helpful and eventually were taking us to the vehicle entrance to let us out when* someone from cressingham* showed us where the gap was. There were still loads of people in the park at this stage.



We're classy like that.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2017)

editor said:


> It's such a shame that what used be a real community highlight no longer exists. I miss the days when just about everyone I know hotfooted it up to Brockwell Park for the fireworks.



We had a bit of a community event on Cressingham, with about 100 people watching the display for free from the mounds at the back of the estate. 

Security bloke in the park: "You can't watch the fireworks without paying".

Community: "oh yes we can!".


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## urbanspaceman (Nov 6, 2017)

_I just gave my 10 votes to BCB. To do so, you need to register, and the easiest way to do that by using the Facebook link Aviva provides. I really encourage you all to vote for BCB. Not many neighbourhoods have the good fortune to benefit from such a valuable community resource. And BCB has been an organic part of the community for years. It is well-used by all sorts of groups. It's not one of those hollow, imposed-from-above facilities that nobody uses._

I'm reporting this message from my neighbour Jane, concerning Brixton Community Base, on Talma Road. 

*Brixton Community Base and Aviva Fund*

Hello! We are requesting funding from the Aviva Community Fund to support our development as a local and much-needed (and loved!) community venue. As you may be aware many community spaces and venues are closing due to significant funding cuts and we need your help to ensure that we can not only survive but become one of Brixton’s best community venues. As you may know there are lots of changes taking place in Brixton. Some are good, some not so good. On the positive side the area is attracting lots of creative people who are investing their time and experiences into the area. On the less positive side we are one of the local organisations who are experiencing difficulty in keeping our lovely venue open and active for current and future generations.  Having a well-resourced and effective community centre is critical for Brixton's long term social cohesion. Residents, who use BCB, have informed us that it is becoming increasing difficult to access community spaces. BCB’s affordable community centre allows residents, local groups, support services, and families to access community-focused provision and hold events in a safe, friendly environment. Organisations benefit from the availability of competitively priced rehearsal rooms whilst community projects run by the centre focus on engaging adults, seniors and young people in meaningful activities and positive interactions with appropriate adults. Outreach projects run by BCB teams share the organisation’s expertise with the wider community. We run a variety of clubs including Tai Chi, yoga, creative writing and oral history for seniors, dance, children’s events, panto and art. We also provide on-going support for health and wellbeing groups who access our building at a reduced rate. On a weekly basis, we have over 500 people using the building and need to ensure that our support is on-going. BCB is currently run by a wonderful Board of Trustees and supported by local volunteers when we host events. Whilst everyone does what they can we do not have the necessary workforce or skills to take us to the next level of our development. We are applying to Aviva for funding to employ a marketing and social media worker (one day per week) who will help us promote ourselves both locally and to a wider audience, increase our offer to our community and ensure our sustainability for future years. The new worker will help us create a marketing and social media strategy that will focus on our current and future offer to both existing and new groups/audiences. We envisage that this employment will impact hugely on our future so please do vote for us. We are local, friendly and absolutely committed to our work to support anyone who comes through our doors.   We need at least 1,000 votes to be considered for the next stage so please do give us your 10 votes and pass onto your networks, colleagues, friends, family etc.  Voting closes on 21 November.   Link to the voting website is here, Brixton Community Base Marketing Development - vote for us now in the Aviva Community Fund  Thank you so much for considering us and please do give us your vote.	Jane Duncan Ribeiro BCB Administrator

Brixton Community Base Marketing Development - vote for us now in the Aviva Community Fund
Brixton Community Base provides a safe, happy environment for people to meet, learn new skills, share experiences and support each other. We are proud to be known for listening to our visitors, responding to need and providing a space for all members of the community to come together.

COMMUNITY-FUND.AVIVA.CO.UK


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## phillm (Nov 6, 2017)

Not up to Bowie's stature for sure but in nearby East Dulwich Bon Scott's death 'site' goes pretty unremarked by most which I'm sure most locals are happy about.







What Really Happened On The Night Bon Scott Died?


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## CH1 (Nov 6, 2017)

phillm said:


> Not up to Bowie's stature for sure but in nearby East Dulwich Bon Scott's death 'site' goes pretty unremarked by most which I'm sure most locals are happy about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are the scribbled still on the bell plate then?

I don't know anything about AC/DC or Bon Scott - but the article was fascinating in its detailed account of the human background to touring life lived to dangerous limits.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 6, 2017)

Bon Scott's death was a tragic waste...would have loved to have heard a Bon Scott follow up to Highway to Hell.


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 6, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> After you gave me the lovely gift of cider during the Country Show in 2016, my compatriot referred to you as "the lovely lady in the hat".  A fiver for the server fund, if you can correctly guess the reply I made!


I like your compatriot already.  Did your reply begin 'Thats no lady...'


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## Lizzy Mac (Nov 6, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> I like your compatriot already.  Did your reply begin 'Thats no lady...'


And then "she's a bit of a character'.  He he.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 6, 2017)

editor said:


> He's ace!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Picked up my shoes today and the repair is great - a whole new sole, very stylishly done - real craftmanship. saves me having to buy new shoes for a while.  I'll definitely use him again.


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 6, 2017)

Lizzy Mac said:


> And then "she's a bit of a character'.  He he.


I'm wondering 'character' is the new 'eccentric'


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## Lizzy Mac (Nov 6, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> I'm wondering 'character' is the new 'eccentric'


I think it depends on who says it.  Sometimes.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> I like your compatriot already.  Did your reply begin 'Thats no lady...'



It did indeed!  £5 to the server fund!

E2A: £7.88p actually, as I donated $10.


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## editor (Nov 7, 2017)

Review of the Brockwell Park fireworks





















In photos: Brockwell Park firework display 2017, south London


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## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 7, 2017)

from that first picture looks like there was a proper ticket checking and bag searching in place?

I was planning to go down and just walk on through without paying but doesnt look that would have been possible this year.


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## editor (Nov 7, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> from that first picture looks like there was a proper ticket checking and bag searching in place?
> 
> I was planning to go down and just walk on through without paying but doesnt look that would have been possible this year.


No chance! It was well run and the staff were polite but the only way you'd get in free would be by top notch blagging or hopping over a fence.


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## editor (Nov 7, 2017)

This is a great night if you fancy trying your luck at winning tickets.

Win tickets for Wonderland’s amazing rainbow-themed all night party at Brixton’s PoW, Sat 11th November


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 7, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> It did indeed!


 yeah but how did it end?


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 7, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> yeah but how did it end?



With "...she's C*****, and she *is* lovely*, isn't she?".  A sentiment that was agreed with. 

*Yes, I DID say that, thus ruining my reputation for being a shit with yet another woman!


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## editor (Nov 8, 2017)

Well-off incomers will soon be able to _cut their own groove_ at the Godawful 'The Edge' development on Valentia Place/Gresham Rd.


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## editor (Nov 8, 2017)

Look at this patronising fucking garbage from their web site

 

Home


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## cuppa tee (Nov 8, 2017)

editor said:


> Look at this patronising fucking garbage from their web site
> 
> View attachment 119981
> 
> Home



Here's another .........


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## editor (Nov 8, 2017)

cuppa tee said:


> Here's another .........
> 
> View attachment 119983


Where did that pile of stinking shit come from?


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## organicpanda (Nov 8, 2017)

rustic???? I do remember when it was all fields round here but that's taking the piss


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## cuppa tee (Nov 8, 2017)

editor said:


> Where did that pile of stinking shit come from?



It came from the brochure for the atrocity now going by the handle Crib5 ( formerly block porn)
Lucky punters are being offered an '_affordable' _1 bed flat for £575,000......
http://vanquishid.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/brochures/CRIB5-BRIXTONBROCHURE(FINAL).pdf


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## brixtonblade (Nov 8, 2017)

editor said:


> Look at this patronising fucking garbage from their web site
> 
> View attachment 119981
> 
> Home


"Oozes ethnic charm"


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## CH1 (Nov 8, 2017)

editor said:


> Well-off incomers will soon be able to _cut their own groove_ at the Godawful 'The Edge' development on Valentia Place/Gresham Rd.
> View attachment 119979


Looks very fragile at this stage. Might be OK on London clay - but very dodgy in a Turkish earthquake!


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## sparkybird (Nov 8, 2017)

organicpanda said:


> rustic???? I do remember when it was all fields round here but that's taking the piss



Maybe it's a typo and they meant rusty?


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## trabuquera (Nov 9, 2017)

brixtonblade said:


> "Oozes ethnic charm"



nah mate: "_still _oozes ethnic charm"   where is the torchbearing mob smiley when you need it...

They can't even punctuate this bilge. "although its had a makeover" ffs.


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## DietCokeGirl (Nov 9, 2017)

*Wakes up, reads the latest posts of Estate Agent wank, goes to hide under her duvet forever*


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## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

Photos from the Hope & Anchor relaunch
















In photos: The Hope & Anchor (formerly Grand Union) relaunches on Acre Lane, Brixton


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 9, 2017)

Looks a bit like the Railway


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## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

This should be a cracker! 






Brixton’s Bar 414 celebrates the London Jazz Festival with free live music night, Sun 12th Nov 2017


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## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Looks a bit like the Railway


Much posher clientele. Lots of suits and Cla'am imbibers.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 9, 2017)

editor said:


> Much posher clientele. Lots of suits and Cla'am imbibers.



It's on the border. We shoulda dug a moat and built a wall....


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2017)

editor said:


> Photos from the Hope & Anchor relaunch
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How times change. I used to have friends who lived around the corner back in mid 80s. It was rather quiet Young's pub. Remember the beer garden. Never that busy. Old fashioned looking pub then.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

So the strip opposite the Barrier Block tonight had: 

1. Kaya coffee bar - now with live music and charging £10 a head.
2. The Yard - bar
3. Shrub & Shutter

So that's three new (and pricey) units out of five in a row all serving booze on a small stretch. None were here five years ago.


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## CH1 (Nov 9, 2017)

editor said:


> So the strip opposite the Barrier Block tonight had:
> 
> 1. Kaya coffee bar - now with live music and charging £10 a head.
> 2. The Yard - bar
> ...


I want to know what this new daytime parking on the grass policy is at the Somerleyton Road end of the Barrier Block.
Is this workers working on estate regeneration or repairs, aggrieved tenants locked out of the undercroft or commuters taking a chance?


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## technical (Nov 10, 2017)

There's a new bar at the bottom of Tulse Hill near the Sainsburys. The Sympathetic Ear - looks very much a bar, rather than a pub but looks like its got plenty of decent beer on offer.

Seems to have appeared very quickly - and can't quite work out what was there before?


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## snowy_again (Nov 10, 2017)

technical said:


> There's a new bar at the bottom of Tulse Hill near the Sainsburys. The Sympathetic Ear - looks very much a bar, rather than a pub but looks like its got plenty of decent beer on offer.
> 
> Seems to have appeared very quickly - and can't quite work out what was there before?



It's owned & run by two local brewers.


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## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

I'm still trying to work out how Kaya can get away with charging £10 to watch a jazz band play without lighting, a proper stage or a decent sound system in the back of a cafe that lacks any kind of cost gig atmosphere. Mind you, there was barely anyone there - why spend £10 when you can great live jazz at the Effra Hall Tavern or the Prince of Wales for free?


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## organicpanda (Nov 10, 2017)

is that live jazz without alcohol? well rad


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## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

organicpanda said:


> is that live jazz without alcohol? well rad


They've got a booze licence there now. Trendy booze dispensers are rapidly becoming the norm for this strip of shops.


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## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

Some things on this weekend Brixton What’s On: bars, gigs and clubs in and around town this weekend, Fri 10th – Sun 12th Nov 2017


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## happyshopper (Nov 10, 2017)

Pink sky


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## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

happyshopper said:


> Pink sky


Ooh it is. I'm going to take some pics!


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## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

And here they are!











In photos: a lovely pink sky over Brixton, November 2017


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## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

I went to meet someone in Costa which has just reopened after a makeover and it's horrible with REALLY bright lights and a really awkward interior redesign. It's really badly done and the lighting is so intrusive that it's not a comfortable or relaxing place to stay. The only good part is that they've opened up the window display space facing Brixton Road (quite why they covered that over in the first place is anyone's guess). They've done a poor job of using that space though as the display is underwhelming.


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## Twattor (Nov 10, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> How times change. I used to have friends who lived around the corner back in mid 80s. It was rather quiet Young's pub. Remember the beer garden. Never that busy. Old fashioned looking pub then.


When I moved next door soon after the turn of the millennium it was a wonderful pub where you could get a decent pint and chat with whoever was at the bar. The Grand Union was terrible both in terms of being a pub I wanted to go to and as a neighbour. I was hugely surprised when my brother told me that to the admin staff in his office who lived in Croydon it was their weekend destination of choice.


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## CH1 (Nov 10, 2017)

Gramsci Twattor Not one to brag but I got sacked from there in 1979.
I recall a couple of things about my two days behind the bar:

when a bunch of student types came in ordering "Black Russian" (a type of cocktail, which had to be made up on the spot.
The landlord called me over after I'd served the round and said - "Tell 'em it's not a fucking cocktail bar next time!"
The landlord was a rather bullying Scot - and allegedly a bit-part actor on the BBC.

I also recall a fight breaking out in the public bar. The landlady was running around shouting "get the glasses" - which I suppose was a good idea in retrospect, though I thought at the time it was bizarre protecting property rather than stopping the fight.

I got sacked because they reckoned the till was £5.00 short - and I refused to be "fined" £1.67 for the shortage (there were three staff on duty).

I think the only time I went back was in the mid 1990s when the Lib Dem council group an "Away Day" in the upstairs room - which was palatial.


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## editor (Nov 12, 2017)

Brixton yesterday 






In photos: Echo Refugee Library in Windrush Square, Brixton


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## T & P (Nov 12, 2017)

editor said:


> I went to meet someone in Costa which has just reopened after a makeover and it's horrible with REALLY bright lights and a really awkward interior redesign. It's really badly done and the lighting is so intrusive that it's not a comfortable or relaxing place to stay. The only good part is that they've opened up the window display space facing Brixton Road (quite why they covered that over in the first place is anyone's guess). They've done a poor job of using that space though as the display is underwhelming.


Is this the one underneath the railway bridge? I guess it must be as I can't think of any others...


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## northeast (Nov 13, 2017)

T & P said:


> Is this the one underneath the railway bridge? I guess it must be as I can't think of any others...



Yeah popped in today, it's terrible. Why the hell is the window blocked up. Don't want to sit in a cafe to drink coffee.  So now we have Starbucks, Costa and soon to arrive Pret within 50m of each other.


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## snowy_again (Nov 13, 2017)

Random Brixton spots this weekend - Alexi Sayle and Robert Peston and then Chuck D at the chip shop place (plus skinnyman I think).


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## editor (Nov 14, 2017)

When is a nuisance not a nuisance? 






Lambeth remove ‘nuisance’ Beehive Place street art – but it’s OK for bar chairs and tables to take their place


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## editor (Nov 14, 2017)

snowy_again said:


> Random Brixton spots this weekend - Alexi Sayle and Robert Peston and then Chuck D at the chip shop place (plus skinnyman I think).


For some reason there always seems to be aspiring actors in San Marino these days.


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## ricbake (Nov 14, 2017)

More pink sky from yesterday


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## Tropi (Nov 15, 2017)

editor said:


> When is a nuisance not a nuisance?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, they've just cleared the space for the Craft Beer Co tables and chairs. That's one of the things I find appalling about this Nu Labour Lambeth Council: the hypocrisy of stating that they are 'for the community', for 'culture' and for independent small business while doing exactly the opposite.


----------



## Twattor (Nov 15, 2017)

Tropi said:


> Yes, they've just cleared the space for the Craft Beer Co tables and chairs. That's one of the things I find appalling about this Nu Labour Lambeth Council: the hypocrisy of stating that they are 'for the community', for 'culture' and for independent small business while doing exactly the opposite.


Do Craft leave their tables out all of the time?  If so, then I don't see how Lambeth can differentiate between the two kinds of obstruction.  Would Craft need a licence to use the space? If so, then there may be a commercial reason behind Lambeth removing the Small World Urbanism stuff.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 15, 2017)

I think that any pavement license would require you to leave a portion of the pavement clear for what it's supposed to be for.

If the SWU stuff was removed on the basis that it was a pavement obstruction then the craft beer stuff shouldn't be there either. Report it as a pavement obstruction:

neighbourhoods@lambeth.gov.uk

I did this recently for a hoarding in LJ and was surprised to find that I got a response and action of sorts.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

Twattor said:


> Do Craft leave their tables out all of the time?  If so, then I don't see how Lambeth can differentiate between the two kinds of obstruction.  Would Craft need a licence to use the space? If so, then there may be a commercial reason behind Lambeth removing the Small World Urbanism stuff.


No, they're not out there overnight, but that's not the point: if having anything on that pavement constitutes an obstruction then it should be kept clear at all times.


----------



## alcopop (Nov 15, 2017)

Twattor said:


> Do Craft leave their tables out all of the time?  If so, then I don't see how Lambeth can differentiate between the two kinds of obstruction.  Would Craft need a licence to use the space? If so, then there may be a commercial reason behind Lambeth removing the Small World Urbanism stuff.


https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/business...cations/apply-for-a-tables-and-chairs-license


----------



## Twattor (Nov 15, 2017)

alcopop said:


> Apply for a tables and chairs license | Lambeth Council



I wonder whether they have submitted an application?  Nothing showing on the licensing database but it doesn't look like it covers tables and chairs.

Presumably they must already have one for the tables and chairs out the front. If they have put in a new application, I wonder when it was done in relation to Small World Urbanism being given the boot.

If it is £1,000pa into the Lambeth coffers against the £0pa from the Small World Urbanists plus the ever present risk of litigation from people who might get a splinter, then it is easy to see why they got the chop.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

Twattor said:


> plus the ever present risk of litigation from people who might get a splinter, then it is easy to see why they got the chop.


Why do you make up such ridiculous shit?


----------



## alcopop (Nov 15, 2017)

editor said:


> Why do you make up such ridiculous shit?


Man sued council for £33,000 after slipping on some berries


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

alcopop said:


> Man sued council for £33,000 after slipping on some berries


Yes, that's really relevant.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 15, 2017)

You can't imagine how relieved I was to hear the views of the Chair of the All Party Committee on Zimbabwe - Kate Hoey - this lunchtime on the news. She managed to carve out a nice little 5 minute segment for herself recommending that Zimbabwe should return to democracy and noting "we still have around 20,000 UK citizens in Zimbabwe."

If you put this together with BREXIT and Foxhunting, I'm wondering if she will shortly be decamping to the USA to advise President Trump on immigration policy.

As Henry II might have said "Who will rid us of this turbulent MP whose interests seem to lie everywhere but in her constituency?"


----------



## alcopop (Nov 15, 2017)

editor said:


> Yes, that's really relevant.




Parents get £3,000 because son got a splinter at school | Daily Mail Online


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

alcopop said:


> Parents get £3,000 because son got a splinter at school | Daily Mail Online


Ah yes, a school. Once again right on the money.

Tell you what, let's just clear everything and anything from the streets. Let's get rid of every community planter and every community bench just in case someone, somewhere gets a splinter and it gets reported in the Daily Mail. Better to have such spaces reserved exclusively for the paying punters of commercial premises.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

Respect: This South London Restaurant Is Uniting Its Community Through Vegan Food


----------



## Twattor (Nov 15, 2017)

editor said:


> Tell you what, let's just clear everything and anything from the streets. Let's get rid of every community planter and every community bench just in case someone, somewhere gets a splinter and it gets reported in the Daily Mail.


That is more or less the point i was trying to make.  The growth in "no win, no fee" ambulance chasers since the 1990s and the litigation culture imported from the US has hit councils, schools and hospitals particularly hard as they don't have the budgets or political will to fight.  it is cheaper to settle, but cheapest of all is simply to ban anything that carries any risk hence the proliferation of "'elf & safety gorn mad" headlines you see in the tabloid press.

In the case of Beehive place Lambeth are in a situation where they are liable for the safety of people using the space, and the SWU street furniture is unlikely to have design approvals or safety paperwork that would usually accompany something similar in the public domain. From their point of view, faced with a "risk" against the possibility not only of revenue from, but risk being shifted to Craft, then I'm amazed it lasted as long as it did.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 15, 2017)

Need to remove clumsy arsed people, not the shit they fall into.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

Twattor said:


> That is more or less the point i was trying to make.  The growth in "no win, no fee" ambulance chasers since the 1990s and the litigation culture imported from the US has hit councils, schools and hospitals particularly hard as they don't have the budgets or political will to fight.  it is cheaper to settle, but cheapest of all is simply to ban anything that carries any risk hence the proliferation of "'elf & safety gorn mad" headlines you see in the tabloid press..


Except THAT WASN'T THE REASON they wanted the stuff shifted.


----------



## HelloNBD (Nov 15, 2017)

Saw this ad today, not mine so don't have any further info. 

(Sorry if it's posted in the wrong place, just thought it could be good opportunity & £££ for someone!)

_Urgent Casting
We are looking for ladies and gents with genuine Jamaican Patois to do some voice work on a feature film TOMORROW.
No experience necessary - just a good loud confident voice!
We will be recording in Central London on Thursday 16th from 1.00 - 6.00pm
This will pay over £300! Can you help us find someone?
Thanks and best wishes
Do contact Jay direct on jay@syncorswim.biz_


----------



## Twattor (Nov 15, 2017)

editor said:


> Except THAT WASN'T THE REASON they wanted the stuff shifted.


Please excuse my ignorance.  What was the reason?  The notice in your articles stated nuisance, which is a pretty loose catch-all term for something that Lambeth just didn't want where it was.

If you're aware of something else and there's more to it than meets the eye then please share.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 15, 2017)

Well, why please the local community with free art and gardening when you can please a local business by making space for them to put out tables and serve more customers?


----------



## bimble (Nov 15, 2017)

The avoidance of the risk (of getting sued by people) is a big concern for the council for sure. Came up against that a lot whilst doing the adventure Playground stuff.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

Twattor said:


> Please excuse my ignorance.  What was the reason?


I thought you knew. You were the one banging on about people getting splinters.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 15, 2017)

I know, replacing art and plants with tables and beer and people really mitigates risk


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I know, replacing art and plants with tables and beer and people really mitigates risk


Danger! A passer by could very easily trip over the legs of one of Craft Beer Co's tables or chairs and there's glass around and everything. 

I note that Rum Kitchen is _surrounded_ by a wooden planter right next to a very busy, narrow pavement. That must be EXTREME HIGH SPLINTER RISK.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 15, 2017)

I suppose we could attempt to establish a few facts before continuing with the discussion, like whether or not Craft Beer have got a pavement license for that location, since that seems like rather an important thing to find out before constructing theories about motivations.


----------



## bimble (Nov 15, 2017)

its fucking shit, don't get me wrong, that was pretty much the last remaining bit of niceness made by human hand on the whole of station road.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 15, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I know, replacing art and plants with tables and beer and people really mitigates risk


The point being made is not about the type or scale of risk, but the location of liability.


----------



## bimble (Nov 15, 2017)

teuchter said:


> The point being made is not about the type or scale of risk, but the location of liability.


Yes, that's what I thought. If someone falls off their metal chair after a few craft ales and sues I think they'd be suing the beer company ? 
The little rubbish park here in Gordon Grove has metal railing all around the middle because (apparently) someone slipped on the decking one wet day and decided to try to sue Lambeth.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 15, 2017)

bimble said:


> Yes, that's what I thought. If someone falls off their metal chair after a few craft ales and sues I think they'd be suing the beer company ?



Yes. However, if the beer company doesn't have a pavement license, and if someone has reported the tables and chairs to Lambeth as an obstruction, and Lambeth fails to do anything about it, and someone in a wheelchair gets hit by a car after going onto the road to get around that obstruction, then things might look less simple.

Which is why reporting it to Lambeth is likely to get results.


----------



## alcopop (Nov 15, 2017)

editor said:


> Danger! A passer by could very easily trip over the legs of one of Craft Beer Co's tables or chairs and there's glass around and everything.
> 
> I note that Rum Kitchen is _surrounded_ by a wooden planter right next to a very busy, narrow pavement. That must be EXTREME HIGH SPLINTER RISK.


The bars will have public liability insurance 

Small world is unlikely to

So any claim is likely to end up with the owner of the pavement - Lambeth


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 15, 2017)

It's a proper blinkin mess innit guv


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 15, 2017)

I thought the opposition here to small world urbanism seats and planters was that they obstructed the pavement. That this was an equal opportunity issue. That someone in a wheelchair couldn't use the pavement as small world urbanism had blocked it. That this was wrong and pavement should be kept clear. End of argument. 

Now the discussion is about who has public liability insurance.

Don't remember that coming up before.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 15, 2017)

I was at a meeting a while back where Brixton station road came up. "Cleaning up" that side of the street was mentioned by officer. Rough sleepers had apparently been using Beehive Place. I get distinct feeling that small world urbanism seats were considered to be encouraging "wrong" type of people to hang around.

The Craft Beer tables and chairs are only for use of those using Craft Beer.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 15, 2017)

And the tables and chairs put up by Craft block the pavement seven days a week most of the day.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> I thought the opposition here to small world urbanism seats and planters was that they obstructed the pavement. That this was an equal opportunity issue. That someone in a wheelchair couldn't use the pavement as small world urbanism had blocked it.
> 
> Now the discussion is about who has public liability insurance.
> 
> Don't remember that coming up before.


Correct. But don't let those boring facts in the way of all this fascinating _splinter talk. _


----------



## teuchter (Nov 15, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> I thought the opposition here to small world urbanism seats and planters was that they obstructed the pavement. That this was an equal opportunity issue. That someone in a wheelchair couldn't use the pavement as small world urbanism had blocked it.
> 
> Now the discussion is about who has public liability insurance.
> 
> Don't remember that coming up before.


I said a while back that the SWU stuff obstructed the pavement and that this was an accessibilty issue, yes.
Now the Craft beer stuff obstructs the pavement and creates an accessibility issue.

I don't think either form of obstructing the pavement should be allowed. That's why I've suggested people should report this to Lambeth.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

Brixton has been a place where music, community, art and street art has played a central role for decades. Cunty estate agents still try to flog their shitty apartments off the back of this arty/boho image.

So it's always depressing to read the near total disinterest and general lack of enthusiasm many posters have here for supporting any kind of community art like the stuff at Beehive Place. Instead, some people prefer to go on and on about the supposed risk of fictional legal cases involving fictional people being wounded by fictional splinters. Because that's more important to them in their world.

Thank fuck the response on various Facebook groups full of Brixton residents is always far more encouraging and supportive. At last some people give a shit about preserving local character.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 15, 2017)

teuchter said:


> I said a while back that the SWU stuff obstructed the pavement and that this was an accessibilty issue, yes.
> Now the Craft beer stuff obstructs the pavement and creates an accessibility issue.
> 
> I don't think either form of obstructing the pavement should be allowed. That's why I've suggested people should report this to Lambeth.



I've emailed to ask what the situation is.

And why if small world urbanism were considered to be obstructing it this isn't.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 15, 2017)

editor said:


> Thank fuck the response on various Facebook groups full of Brixton residents is always far more encouraging and supportive. At last some people give a shit about preserving local character.



I noticed the same about FB response.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 15, 2017)

bimble said:


> The avoidance of the risk (of getting sued by people) is a big concern for the council for sure. Came up against that a lot whilst doing the adventure Playground stuff.



There is avoidance of risk and using it as excuse.

In case of the adventure playground significant section of Council want the adventure playground to fail as they want to sell land.

So rather than say that they use health and safety as reason to obstruct community efforts that go against there plans.

Secondly , as Cllrs continually tell people, this is a Coop Council. They want locals to step forward to run services on a voluntary basis, look after their streets etc. In which case the Council should find ways to work with groups like Small World Urbanism who want to brighten up streets and provide facilities at no cost to the Council.

From what I've seen of Gordon grove APG is that hard pressed volunteers have had to fight all the way to get minimal support from Council. The Council still block use of the community building. Even though they aren't using it.

If the Coop Council is to mean anything the Council should find ways to overcome risks. Rather than just saying no.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 16, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> There is avoidance of risk and using it as excuse.
> 
> In case of the adventure playground significant section of Council want the adventure playground to fail as they want to sell land.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of this in principle.

Often risk can be overcome or reduced simply by good design. Instead of just saying no.

At the same time stuff like public liability insurance is a real consideration. So the discussion about it here shouldn't just be dismissed. 

It seems to me that SWU's approach by the rec was a guerilla one - just do it, without worrying too much about legal issues, and so on, and without trying to gain the approval of the council. I can understand why they might decide to do that because it makes something happen, without getting clogged up in the slow turning cogs of Lambeth bureaucracy and risk-averse decision making. But it seems inevitable to me that that kind of intervention is usually only going to be temporary, because what is created is unlikely to be built to the standards that would be required, were the council to formally support it. The same standards that rightly apply to the rest of the built environment and which mean that we can mostly walk the streets without stuff falling on our heads or collapsing underfoot.

I don't know if this makes any sense to you but it can be frustrating for those who are involved in designing stuff, and put considerable time and effort into doing that properly, and jumping through a lot of hoops to get things approved and suitable for purpose, to see everyone unquestioningly praising rickety benches as great examples of art/design which should be defended against a council who may have a legitimate issue, relating to liability etc, with them being on the street. 

I'm not saying that to have a go at small world urbanism - actually, it may simply be a pragmatic approach to do something that bypasses all the red tape, and which can survive for the period of time that passes before Lambeth have to "do something" about it.

You're quite right, Lambeth ought to engage with these kinds of groups constructively. At the same time, if we want something lasting to come out of it, then everyone has to be realistic about these boring issues of liability and so on. And not slag off people for bringing those issues up as relevant. If people want to discuss things as if that stuff simply doesn't matter, they are welcome to do so on back-slapping facebook groups as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 16, 2017)

Has anyone been to that new craft beer place round the corner from the hootenanny?

Can’t remember the name something like the polite conversation or the forgetful hand or someThing slightly odd.

Any good ?
Expensive ?

Alex


----------



## Angellic (Nov 16, 2017)

teuchter said:


> I agree with most of this in principle.
> 
> Often risk can be overcome or reduced simply by good design. Instead of just saying no.
> 
> ...




The SWU street furniture looked very bulky and not easily moved. Loved the collection of art on the wall though. I'm glad that's been allowed to stay.


----------



## Winot (Nov 16, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Has anyone been to that new craft beer place round the corner from the hootenanny?
> 
> Can’t remember the name something like the polite conversation or the forgetful hand or someThing slightly odd.
> 
> ...



The Sympathetic Ear. Haven’t been but want to.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 16, 2017)

The Polite Conversation
The Forgetful Hand
The Sympathetic Ear
The Indiscreet Tongue
The Two Left Feet
The Runny Nose
The Inappropriately Roving Eye
The Poorly Concealed Bald Patch
The Unfortunate Outcome


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2017)

teuchter said:


> The Polite Conversation
> The Forgetful Hand
> The Sympathetic Ear
> The Indiscreet Tongue
> ...


not to mention your regular, the pub bore.


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2017)

Winot said:


> The Sympathetic Ear. Haven’t been but want to.


Their map isn't the most helpful:






Here's the opening hours:

Monday: Closed
Tuesday–Friday: 2pm–11pm
Saturday: 12pm–11pm
Sunday: 12pm–10pm


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 16, 2017)

The Quite Pathetic Map


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2017)

editor said:


> Their map isn't the most helpful:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


miss mango landin


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> The Quite Pathetic Map


Central Brixton = Pop Brixton, Brixton Village & the boycotted Ritzy.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 16, 2017)

editor said:


> Central Brixton = Pop Brixton, Brixton Village & the boycotted Ritzy.



Hey, they included the plants that Pop forgot to grow.

Why is a woman walking a fox in Ruskin Park and why is a dog pissing and throwing up in Brockwell Park?


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 16, 2017)

Where's Onket when you need him?


----------



## T & P (Nov 16, 2017)

Well, that does it. I was going to check the place out, but this map has repulsed me so much I will never set foot in the place, and tell everyone I know to boycott the bastards.


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2017)

T & P said:


> Well, that does it. I was going to check the place out, but this map has repulsed me so much I will never set foot in the place, and tell everyone I know to boycott the bastards.


You're awfully sensitive, you know.


----------



## bimble (Nov 16, 2017)

"This way to Elephant? " As if the very important 'destination in its own right' Loughborough Junction doesn't exist at all.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 16, 2017)

Maps just aint what they used to be


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 16, 2017)

Why do people have to ruin things by making them all fun and nice to look at.....?


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 16, 2017)

bimble said:


> "This way to Elephant? " As if the very important 'destination in its own right' Loughborough Junction doesn't exist at all.



Hang on, I thought it was stated that LJ didn't want to be a "destination" as that was gentrification talk?


----------



## bimble (Nov 16, 2017)

Not entirely serious in my complaint about being wiped off the beer-map. Camberwell might feel a bit pissed off though.


----------



## Angellic (Nov 16, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Why do people have to ruin things by making them all fun and nice to look at.....?



As well as 'pathetic'.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 16, 2017)

Angellic said:


> As well as 'pathetic'.



Quite Pathetic


----------



## CH1 (Nov 16, 2017)

Pathétique


----------



## bimble (Nov 16, 2017)

Handrawn maps can be lovely things though.  This one's nice. From here .


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2017)

I miss the old Albert....


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2017)

bimble said:


> Handrawn maps can be lovely things though.  This one's nice. From here .
> 
> View attachment 120637


this one's good too, from the auld goad maps


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> this one's good too, from the auld goad maps
> 
> View attachment 120642


Oh, got a source for that? I'm working on something right now and would love more detail.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2017)

editor said:


> Oh, got a source for that? I'm working on something right now and would love more detail.


http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/london/htok/zoomify152895.html

google goad & bl


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/london/htok/zoomify152895.html
> 
> google goad & bl


Have you managed to find a way to download the entire map - all I can see is sections because of that fiddly Flash interface. 

What's 'goad and bl'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2017)

editor said:


> Have you managed to find a way to download the entire map - all I can see is sections because of that fiddly Flash interface.
> 
> What's 'goad and bl'?


bl british library
goad, the people who made the maps, which were for the purposes of fire insurance
i don't know how you can get the whole map, which is a great pain as altho lambeth archives (and london metropolitan archives) likely to have copies they're unlikely to allow you to photograph.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2017)

editor said:


> Oh, got a source for that? I'm working on something right now and would love more detail.


have you tried the national library of scotland maps? Ordnance Survey Maps - National Library of Scotland


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> have you tried the national library of scotland maps? Ordnance Survey Maps - National Library of Scotland


Yes, I've been allover them! I was trying to screengrab the segments of that map and put it all together but the interface is a bit wobbly. I think it can be done with enough patience but it'll take ages.


----------



## Angellic (Nov 16, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Quite Pathetic



Quite.


----------



## bimble (Nov 16, 2017)

its great that old insurance map.  
Just found the buzz article about the Turkish baths that were on brixton rd.


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2017)

bimble said:


> its great that old insurance map.
> Just found the buzz article about the Turkish baths that were on brixton rd.


I spent a bloody age researching that - so much so, that some bloke from the Turkish Bath Society (or something) message me to thank me!)


----------



## alex_ (Nov 16, 2017)

Winot said:


> The Sympathetic Ear. Haven’t been but want to.



Nearly right - recent prices here



Some of these are keen prices good wild beer bibble on draft for less than a fiver is good, it’s 260 a can in oddbins.

Alex


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Nearly right - recent prices here
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Prices aren't too bad at all  but what's with this 2/3rds of a pint nonsense?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 16, 2017)

Angellic said:


> Quite.



Qui


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 16, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Qui


----------



## brixtonblade (Nov 16, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Nearly right - recent prices here
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's not bad - I thought it would be really steep.  Will see if I can check it out.


----------



## T & P (Nov 16, 2017)

editor said:


> Prices aren't too bad at all  but what's with this 2/3rds of a pint nonsense?


The more choice the better IMO. I can imagine many people might find that size quite appealing; half pint often seems just a tad too small, and full pints can be quite filling for some. It is also similar to 33 cl bottles in size.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 16, 2017)

T & P said:


> I can imagine many people might find that size quite appealing



I do


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 16, 2017)

Agreed. I had a quick drink after work tonight; wasn't quite enough time for a pint, but a half always goes down too quickly. A two thirds option would be good.

Also, after one pint there's a temptation to make it two. Doesn't feel like that would be the same with a two thirder.

Seems like a lot of effort for a bar however, having to store all those extra glasses for what 'might' be a bit of a fad.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 16, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> Agreed. I had a quick drink after work tonight; wasn't quite enough time for a pint, but a half always goes down too quickly. A two thirds option would be good.
> 
> Also, after one pint there's a temptation to make it two. Doesn't feel like that would be the same with a two thirder.
> 
> Seems like a lot of effort for a bar however, having to store all those extra glasses for what 'might' be a bit of a fad.



Suspect 1/2 and 2/3 glasses are a goblet thing.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 16, 2017)

While 1/3 and 2/3 pints may be convenient or handy in various scenarios, it's really just another version of the "small plates" scam where you sell people lots of small things instead of a few larger things, but charge nearly the same per item.


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 16, 2017)

Convenience has its own costs that some will be willing to pay.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 16, 2017)

teuchter said:


> While 1/3 and 2/3 pints may be convenient or handy in various scenarios, it's really just another version of the "small plates" scam where you sell people lots of small things instead of a few larger things, but charge nearly the same per item.



Apart from on the menu above they are priced to within 5 or 10p of the pro rata price for a pint.

(And remember some of the fixed costs are the same)

Alex


----------



## teuchter (Nov 16, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Apart from on the menu above they are priced to within 5 or 10p of the pro rata price for a pint.
> 
> (And remember some of the fixed costs are the same)
> 
> Alex


So I see. That's good. Other places I've come across that serve in these measures don't do this.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 16, 2017)

editor and others Booma by the Crown and Anchor on Brixton Road serves 1/3 pints - though I suspect the beer on offer at the Sympathetic Ear will be better (if you like ale that is).


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 16, 2017)

Really?!! A third of a pint?


----------



## teuchter (Nov 16, 2017)

CH1 said:


> editor and others Booma by the Crown and Anchor on Brixton Road serves 1/3 pints -



That's actually the place I most recently met the 2/3 pint arrangement. And it seemed they were priced such that it would be quite an ok price if they were pints, but were pretty expensive pro rata if you did the arithmetic.


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 16, 2017)

T & P said:


> It is also similar to 33 cl bottles in size.



And the best option for the ardent europhile wishing to make a statement in his or her local brasserie.


----------



## T & P (Nov 16, 2017)

teuchter said:


> That's actually the place I most recently met the 2/3 pint arrangement. And it seemed they were priced such that it would be quite an ok price if they were pints, but were pretty expensive pro rata if you did the arithmetic.


I thought by law licenced premises cannot offer proportionately cheaper prices for larger quantities of booze? I could be completely wrong of course. But I've never ever been in a pub or bar where half pint wasn't exactly half the price of a full pint.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 16, 2017)

T & P said:


> I thought by law licenced premises cannot offer proportionately cheaper prices for larger quantities of booze? I could be completely wrong of course. But I've never ever been in a pub or bar where half pint wasn't exactly half the price of a full pint.


They don't sell pints, just 1/3 or 2/3. So a 2/3 is say £4, which seems like not too expensive, because maybe you've got it in your head that £4.50 is a reasonable price for a pint, so a 2/3 is a bit less than that which might seem sort of ok. But of course it actually represents beer that is priced at £6 a pint. At least, I think that's how the psychology is intended to work.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 16, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> Convenience has its own costs that some will be willing to pay.



Ever one to support free enterprise. It's a scam.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 16, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


>



What's the point of this?


----------



## alcopop (Nov 16, 2017)

.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 16, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> Really?!! A third of a pint?



It's what CH1 posted. What's your point?


----------



## alcopop (Nov 16, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Apart from on the menu above they are priced to within 5 or 10p of the pro rata price for a pint.
> 
> (And remember some of the fixed costs are the same)
> 
> Alex


Clearly this is not a scam


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 16, 2017)

teuchter said:


> I agree with most of this in principle.
> 
> Often risk can be overcome or reduced simply by good design. Instead of just saying no.
> 
> ...



As for "rickety benches". Have you seen the (possibly) Council approved replacement. High tables with chairs that people have to perch on. When I saw it my first thought was that Small World Urbanism efforts was much safer.

As for "back slapping Facebook groups" . I didn't mention groups. I base my views on Brixton issues on more than one outlet. Roughly they are the following. Urban, the community groups I'm in, FB, people I know in Brixton, local business people I know, dealing with Council officers and Cllrs at meetings I attend. I also have long track record of engaging with Council on planning/ master plan issues.

I've heard people ask the Council to treat SWU efforts sympathetically. To no avail. I don't feel people would mind so much if Council learnt or acknowledged SWU efforts as having positive effects. They don't. As far as they are concerned the "problem" is dealt with.

One of the things that has been unremarked is how SWU intervention msnaged to cross over the boundary between old and new Brixton. It provided space for those using the Craft beer place and those , as SWU say needed place to hang out in who were being displaced by gentrification.

It was an informal public space that worked. That provided space for "old" and " new" Brixton.

The Council with there officers, who have all the right qualifications were incapable of doing this.

It took a bunch of slightly off the wall alternative people to do this. I've meet them. They had a stall in market for a while. One thing I particularly liked about them is that they have no sense of how to make money. Not that they don't try. A plus point imo.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 17, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> Ever one to support free enterprise. It's a scam.



Can you explain how ?


----------



## alex_ (Nov 17, 2017)

teuchter said:


> They don't sell pints, just 1/3 or 2/3. So a 2/3 is say £4, which seems like not too expensive, because maybe you've got it in your head that £4.50 is a reasonable price for a pint, so a 2/3 is a bit less than that which might seem sort of ok. But of course it actually represents beer that is priced at £6 a pint. At least, I think that's how the psychology is intended to work.



When you say “they don’t sell pints” do you mean the place who’s beer price list I posted above, that we’ve been discussing - the one with a prices column headed “pints”, or do you mean some other place ?

Alex


----------



## Twattor (Nov 17, 2017)

teuchter said:


> While 1/3 and 2/3 pints may be convenient or handy in various scenarios, it's really just another version of the "small plates" scam where you sell people lots of small things instead of a few larger things, but charge nearly the same per item.


AFAIK the 2/3 measure is an Australian import which they call a schooner.  Historically the 1/3 has been a beer festival measure to enable you to try lots of different beers. The massive growth in ludicrously strong craft beers has made these a practical measure for pubs specialising in interesting beers - I had a third of an 8%er on my way home last night.

The goblets typically have lines at 1/3, 1/2, and 2/3 so one glass fits all.


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 17, 2017)

I don' think I've ever come across a place selling 1/3 pints. I obviously don't spend enough time in pubs. Although the beer festival thing sounds vaguely familiar


----------



## bimble (Nov 17, 2017)

I’d never heard of a 2/3 pint before and would totally go for that. Have a tendency to err on the side of a half and then buy another half, which is extra stupid.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 17, 2017)

alex_ said:


> When you say “they don’t sell pints” do you mean the place who’s beer price list I posted above, that we’ve been discussing - the one with a prices column headed “pints”, or do you mean some other place ?
> 
> Alex


I mean Booma, mentioned by CH1 a few posts back, and which as I said I recently visited, which is what we were discussing.


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 17, 2017)

these 1/3 and 2/3 pint nonsense is a common ruse by places to scam drinkers and i hate the way this is in any way acceptable in any establishment. Its nothing more than a bar making more money, and mugging the drinker off. 

If i had to see any kind of good in it, in the instance of that bar mentioned earlier, perhaps if you were really skint and only had £3 but still desperate for a drink, you could go for the 2/3 of a pint. At least they actually offer full pints in that place, rather than every drink being 1/3 under but still the price of a whole pint.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 17, 2017)

The other place I met it recently was Cafe Oto up in Dalston.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 17, 2017)

The Crown& Anchor does tasting thirds on a paddle. As does the Bullfinch in Herne Hill. Doesn't the craft ale place on Station Road do them?

In Australia you can buy a 1/4 pint or even smaller, although it's not all that common anymore. The schooner is a good measure.


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 17, 2017)

Rushy said:


> The Crown& Anchor does tasting thirds on a paddle. As does the Bullfinch in Herne Hill. Doesn't the craft ale place on Station Road do them?
> 
> In Australia you can buy a 1/4 pint or even smaller, although it's not all that common anymore. The schooner is a good measure.



They'll do you a taster in a small glass but it looks like less than 1/3 pint and not charged for as far as I know


----------



## Rushy (Nov 17, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> They'll do you a taster in a small glass but it looks like less than 1/3 pint and not charged for as far as I know


Yes. If you want to try before you buy. Most pubs do that. You can also buy paddles of 1/3 pints so that you can try more beers.


----------



## Gleena (Nov 17, 2017)

Twattor said:


> AFAIK the 2/3 measure is an Australian import which they call a schooner.  Historically the 1/3 has been a beer festival measure to enable you to try lots of different beers. The massive growth in ludicrously strong craft beers has made these a practical measure for pubs specialising in interesting beers - I had a third of an 8%er on my way home last night.
> 
> The goblets typically have lines at 1/3, 1/2, and 2/3 so one glass fits all.




They're a schooner in South Australia at least. They are called other things in other states.  Pot in Victoria, Middy or Schooner in NSW. Australia is a deeply strange place, but I miss it.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 17, 2017)

I am going to set up a craft beer pop up foodie joint.

I'm going to serve egg cups of IPA and Findus Crispy Pancakes with crushed avocado.

Dessert will be McVities Penguins and Angel Delight.


----------



## Twattor (Nov 17, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I am going to set up a craft beer pop up foodie joint.
> 
> I'm going to serve egg cups of IPA and Findus Crispy Pancakes with crushed avocado.
> 
> Dessert will be McVities Penguins and Angel Delight.


As long as it is interesting IPA i'd be all over it


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 17, 2017)

Twattor said:


> As long as it is interesting IPA i'd be all over it



They'll have good names like 'Monkey Y-Front Barn Dance' and 'Copper Copter Booby Trap'


----------



## teuchter (Nov 17, 2017)

In Booma they have one called "Gentleman's Wit" which is easy to misread adding an 'l' before the final 't'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2017)

teuchter said:


> In Booma they have one called "Gentleman's Wit" which is easy to misread adding an 'l' before the final 't'.


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 17, 2017)

Rushy said:


> Yes. If you want to try before you buy. Most pubs do that. You can also buy paddles of 1/3 pints so that you can try more beers.



Right. I've not seen them do those


----------



## Twattor (Nov 17, 2017)

teuchter said:


> In Booma they have one called "Gentleman's Wit" which is easy to misread adding an 'l' before the final 't'.


Booma is owned by the same pubco that owns the Crown & Anchor Our pubs – London Village Inns


----------



## alcopop (Nov 17, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> these 1/3 and 2/3 pint nonsense is a common ruse by places to scam drinkers and i hate the way this is in any way acceptable in any establishment. Its nothing more than a bar making more money, and mugging the drinker off.


If pubs made more money then maybe less of them would close down


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2017)

alcopop said:


> If pubs made more money then maybe less of them would close down


many years ago i used to drink in the alma, beside homerton station, which had a regular lock-in: the manager frequently said how she couldn't believe pubs could make money without lock-ins. and that was before the smoking ban etc.

the alma closed down some years ago and is now, i see, flats


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 17, 2017)

If Pub co's and breweries ripped off landlords less for their beer via a contract they are exclusively tied to, then less would close down. i think this is more of a problem.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 17, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> If Pub co's and breweries ripped off landlords less for their beer via a contract they are exclusively tied to, then less would close down. i think this is more of a problem.


Since this? year they are not allowed to charge more to supply alcohol to a tied pub than to any other customer.


----------



## Twattor (Nov 17, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> If Pub co's and breweries ripped off landlords less for their beer via a contract they are exclusively tied to, then less would close down. i think this is more of a problem.


The charging of "wet rent" was abolished in 2014.  Landlords of tied pubs are now able to buy beer at market rates although admittedly their "dry rents" may have been increased by the pubcos to mitigate their loss on the beer


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> these 1/3 and 2/3 pint nonsense is a common ruse by places to scam drinkers and i hate the way this is in any way acceptable in any establishment. Its nothing more than a bar making more money, and mugging the drinker off.


That's what the Ekcovision in Atlantic Road did and I felt I was being mugged off at the time (there's a thread here somewhere). The prices were sky high for pints but the 2/3rd prices made them feel a bit more reasonable as did the big glasses designed to make your drink look bigger than it was. It's a sneaky scam. 

That said, I can maybe understand 1/3rd glasses if it's some a full on craft ale place and people want to try loads of different beers without getting too smashed.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> If Pub co's and breweries ripped off landlords less for their beer via a contract they are exclusively tied to, then less would close down. i think this is more of a problem.


The ludicrously cheap booze in supermarkets doesn't help either.


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 17, 2017)

I’m up in Stockholm for a few weeks and the main size is 40cls. I’m sipping one now. I like it, it’s a nice measure.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> I’m up in Stockholm for a few weeks and the main size is 40cls. I’m sipping one now. I like it, it’s a nice measure.





-- george orwell, 1984


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2017)

Here's my annoyed comment on Eckovision's sneaky 2/3rds of a pint from 2015. 



> Beer drinkers are definitely not the target audience here  – a fact reflected by the wallet-ripping price for a pint of draft lager (“_it’s ackshully craft ale_,” as the barman snootily informed us).
> 
> Although the  _craft ale_ was priced at a reasonable sounding £4, the drink was served in a glass that only held 2/3rds of a pint, so we were in fact paying £6 for a pint. Sneaky.
> 
> Ekcovision, Atlantic Road Brixton – yet another cocktail bar for Brixton. Beer drinkers jog on


----------



## alcopop (Nov 17, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> If Pub co's and breweries ripped off landlords less for their beer via a contract they are exclusively tied to, then less would close down. i think this is more of a problem.


I think this is more of a problem

British pubs under threat from new 'eye-watering' business rates


----------



## Twattor (Nov 17, 2017)

alcopop said:


> I think this is more of a problem
> 
> British pubs under threat from new 'eye-watering' business rates


definitely.  I'd imagine that is probably behind the Crown & Sceptre being put on the market - with a footprint the size of that pub and the two storeys of kitchen and staff accommodation, their rates must be colossal.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2017)

Hope the food is better than the flyer!







Brixton Vegan Market  – South London’s first Weekly Vegan Market runs every Sunday. 19th Nov – 24th Dec


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2017)

editor said:


> Hope the food is better than the flyer!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


my eyes!  my poor eyes


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2017)

This looks good: 







Portraits of change: photography exhibition captures impact of youth volunteering, Pop Brixton 20th Nov – 2nd Dec 2017


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 17, 2017)

editor said:


> Hope the food is better than the flyer!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My lord that is awful design.. We popped down to the last one and there was quite a range. The vegan donut stall had sold out by 1.30, apart from one type that no-one seemed to be buying.


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## CH1 (Nov 17, 2017)

Twattor said:


> Booma is owned by the same pubco that owns the Crown & Anchor Our pubs – London Village Inns


That explains the very co-operative nature of pot collection outside in the alley.


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## Twattor (Nov 17, 2017)

Winot said:


> The Sympathetic Ear. Haven’t been but want to.


alex_ just sampling 2/3 of a pint there on the way home. 

Run by the people from Canopy. Lovely space. Some great beers. Prices are what you'd expect in a modern micropub.

I really like it. Bit far off my route home to make it a local though.


----------



## IamSnakes (Nov 17, 2017)

Sympathetic Ear is reasonably priced for craft beer. It's a good place - I like canopy who run it. Bullfinch near to Canopy owned by Ryan is also great another brewery and tap. Went to the EPT last night, it was ok but pricey. I am getting to the age where I miss the old skool boozers, there are hardly any left in Brixton now.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2017)

IamSnakes said:


> Sympathetic Ear is reasonably priced for craft beer. It's a good place - I like canopy who run it. Bullfinch near to Canopy owned by Ryan is also great another brewery and tap. Went to the EPT last night, it was ok but pricey. I am getting to the age where I miss the old skool boozers, there are hardly any left in Brixton now.


The Effra Hall Tavern and Marquis of Lorne are the only ones I can think of.


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 17, 2017)

editor said:


> Hope the food is better than the flyer!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It probably won’t.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> It probably won’t.


Why do you think that?


----------



## Twattor (Nov 17, 2017)

editor said:


> The Effra Hall Tavern and Marquis of Lorne are the only ones I can think of.


I really like Effra Hall but preferred it before they opened up the bar. Marquis is a pub I'd really love to like but they don't serve proper beer so I'll never go there.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2017)

Twattor said:


> I really like Effra Hall but preferred it before they opened up the bar. Marquis is a pub I'd really love to like but they don't serve proper beer so I'll never go there.


I preferred it how it was too - and I liked it more when the clientele was more mixed.


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## Ms T (Nov 18, 2017)

We tried A Sympathetic Ear yesterday? Really liked it. The house wine was good, and you can also buy any bottle of beer or wine or cider off the shalves, so there’s a pretty big selection. They only sell “beer cheese” to eat at the moment (a kind of potted cheese mixed with beer - a bit like Welsh rarebit) but are considering adding other snacks. I hope it does well.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 18, 2017)

Ms T said:


> We tried A Sympathetic Ear yesterday? Really liked it. The house wine was good, and you can also buy any bottle of beer or wine or cider off the shalves, so there’s a pretty big selection. They only sell “beer cheese” to eat at the moment (a kind of potted cheese mixed with beer - a bit like Welsh rarebit) but are considering adding other snacks. I hope it does well.


We tried it last week end. Smells nicer than Canopy. Like their Canopy parent they don't have any beer I like on tap - no bitter/brown ale/mild beer - its all pale, pale ale, blonde, IPA. So I had a pint of the Brockwell IPA which I've had before and was drinkable, but it was so cloudy and fizzy and lacking any depth of flavour, it was so unenjoyable I left half of it. Shame. I wish Canopy well, we really need more independant breweries - but I wish they would improve the quality / selection of their beers.

That map looks like they don't want anyone to find them - as they've only labelled roads that don't go towards them - no sign of Effra Road or Brixton Water Lane.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Nov 18, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> It probably won’t.


It does! The food from vegan sweet tooth is amazing,  I think they're going to have a stall there every week.


----------



## IamSnakes (Nov 18, 2017)

Yes effra hall is not quite like back in the day, but it still feels good in there. Shame the huge plant in the garden left. 

Not so many carribeans in there as there used to be....

Canopy beer is ok but not up there with the best. Brixton beer probably edges it.


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 18, 2017)

DietCokeGirl said:


> It does! The food from vegan sweet tooth is amazing,  I think they're going to have a stall there every week.


Good news


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 18, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> If Pub co's and breweries ripped off landlords less for their beer via a contract they are exclusively tied to, then less would close down. i think this is more of a problem.



I agree.

I was chatting to a small brewery business ( who will go unnamed for obvious reasons).

I was talking about Plymouth. Where I came from. Haven't been back for years. To my surprise the gentrification process hasn't really worked there. Locsl old pub still serves locsl beers cheap. To edit. My local brewery said the London type Pubco wouldn't work in Plymouth. She reckoned the Pubco wouldn't be interested. In London they drive pubs into the ground. Extract the most profit they can from landlords and brewers. Then realise the asset.

As my small London brewery told me Plymouth is probably different from London. Plymouth is still fairly working class. It's not like other more "desirable" bits of Cornwall and Devon.

"Pubco" are basically property developers. Shafting small business and hard working pub landlords. Eyeing up pubs for possible conversion to yuppie flats. It's the property they are interested in.

My local brewery were getting so squeezed by Pubco capitalism that they gave up supplying Pubco cunts downsized and sell more directly to Joe public. Why I go every weekend to buy a few bottles from them.

"Pubco" is shit. It represents in London the worst aspects of Capitalism. It's about shafting the little man.


----------



## IamSnakes (Nov 18, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> I agree.
> 
> I was chatting to a small brewery business ( who will go unnamed for obvious reasons).
> 
> ...



I agree pub cos are rubbish. Generally shit beer and they screw landlords. Micropubs are great but it's hard to do in London as rents are so high. Canopy and Bullfinch are good because the beers cheap and it's direct from source,  plus you can often talk to the brewer. Not sure if they are quite in Brixton mind, more Herne / tulsehill


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 18, 2017)

IamSnakes said:


> I agree pub cos are rubbish. Generally shit beer and they screw landlords. Micropubs are great but it's hard to do in London as rents are so high. Canopy and Bullfinch are good because the beers cheap and it's direct from source,  plus you can often talk to the brewer. Not sure if they are quite in Brixton mind, more Herne / tulsehill



What I heard from my local brewery was that Pubco were trying to make them sell there beer to them for less and less. My brewer talked to landlords of Pubco. Whilst pushing down price from the small brewer they were upping the price to the landlord.It got to point where they couldn't make a living out of it. Pubco think they have whip hand. Which they do under present state of affairs. 

It's how capitalism works when left to its own devices. The people who do the real work get shafted. Whilst parasitic big business does ok.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> What I heard from my local brewery was that Pubco were trying to make them sell there beer to them for less and less. My brewer talked to landlords of Pubco. Whilst pushing down price from the small brewer they were upping the price to the landlord.It got to point where they couldn't make a living out of it. Pubco think they have whip hand. Which they do under present state of affairs.
> 
> It's how capitalism works when left to its own devices. The people who do the real work get shafted. Whilst parasitic big business does ok.


You might find this article useful:
Q&A: Pubs code and MRO option


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 18, 2017)

CH1 said:


> You might find this article useful:
> Q&A: Pubs code and MRO option



This does only apply to Pubco with 500 plus pubs.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> This does only apply to Pubco with 500 plus pubs.


I find it confusing actually. Antic is presumably a PubCo smaller than 500 pubs - or is it like Wetherspoons a company with managed branches?


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2017)

CH1 said:


> I find it confusing actually. Antic is presumably a PubCo smaller than 500 pubs - or is it like Wetherspoons a company with managed branches?


I think Antic are something of an anomaly.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 18, 2017)

CH1 said:


> I find it confusing actually. Antic is presumably a PubCo smaller than 500 pubs - or is it like Wetherspoons a company with managed branches?



When I saw it only applies to pubco with 500 plus pubs I kind of thought its the kind of legislation brought in that by the time its force has been watered down a lot by lobbying from business. The spirit is to defend small pubs etc but its been whittled away.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 18, 2017)

CH1 said:


> I find it confusing actually. Antic is presumably a PubCo smaller than 500 pubs - or is it like Wetherspoons a company with managed branches?



I agree with Ed. Its an anomaly.  I may be wrong but the guy who owns it is into pubs but works with private equity backing. Kind of understandingly as larger equity is needed.  But I get impression this private equity is not for all the business. But for individual sites.


----------



## alcopop (Nov 18, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> I agree with Ed. Its an anomaly.  I may be wrong but the guy who owns it is into pubs but works with private equity backing. Kind of understandingly as larger equity is needed.  But I get impression this private equity is not for all the business. But for individual sites.


So he is an evil parasitical capitalist but kinda cuddly because he has no choice? & he’s doing it for the community?

Or am I misunderstanding you?


----------



## Rushy (Nov 19, 2017)

alcopop said:


> So he is an evil parasitical capitalist but kinda cuddly because he has no choice? & he’s doing it for the community?
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding you?


The guy who runs it is a well established property developer. The backers are a property fund which buys the sites and rent them to the pub co. It's no less commercial in its principles than any other pub co.

They are good on trend pubs to be fair. I can't help wondering how much longer the "shitty chic" thing they have trapped into is going to remain popular amongst the crowd they cater for. It has reached the stage that it is being recreated left right and center by faceless chains.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 19, 2017)

alcopop said:


> So he is an evil parasitical capitalist but kinda cuddly because he has no choice? & he’s doing it for the community?
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding you?



I'm saying the way Antic is run is not quite the same as a pubco. I also said I may be wrong.


----------



## alcopop (Nov 19, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> I'm saying the way Antic is run is not quite the same as a pubco. I also said I may be wrong.


Antic don’t brew their own beer. So there is no vertical integration from brewer to consumer if that’s what you mean but then there are lots of companies who run multiple sites that don’t do this.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2017)

Rushy said:


> I can't help wondering how much longer the "shitty chic" thing they have trapped into is going to remain popular amongst the crowd they cater for.



Yup


----------



## editor (Nov 19, 2017)

alcopop said:


> Antic don’t brew their own beer.


Yes they do.
Meet the Brewer


----------



## CH1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> When I saw it only applies to pubco with 500 plus pubs I kind of thought its the kind of legislation brought in that by the time its force has been watered down a lot by lobbying from business. The spirit is to defend small pubs etc but its been whittled away.


I don't think it is specifically to do with small pubs - more those pubs which devolved to companies such as Punch Taverns Admiral Taverns etc when the large breweries were required to divest themselves of their tied houses. The tenants of these companies regularly complained their business position was impossible because of unfair supply agreements.

Funnily enough one of Kate Hoey's many interests was dealing with this (when Minister of Sport).
Three MPs plan pubco workshops


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 19, 2017)

Volder's the 'beer' equivalent of Carling - the cynic in me thinks done in the last 18 months to jump on a band wagon and to reduce their own purchasing costs. That and antic still having a snide reputation of poor invoice processing to small companies.


----------



## alcopop (Nov 19, 2017)

editor said:


> Yes they do.
> Meet the Brewer


Didn’t know that but it’s a piddly little operation as opposed to the big breweries. 

And a presumably minuscule percentage of overall sales so my point stands.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 19, 2017)

alcopop said:


> Didn’t know that but it’s a piddly little operation as opposed to the big breweries.
> 
> And a presumably minuscule percentage of overall sales so my point stands.



And they’ll get small brewers tax relief, so it’ll cost less, this is a tax dodge.

Alex


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 19, 2017)

[QU


alcopop said:


> Antic don’t brew their own beer. So there is no vertical integration from brewer to consumer if that’s what you mean but then there are lots of companies who run multiple sites that don’t do this.



 No that's not what I meant. What I meant was clear from my original post.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 19, 2017)

alcopop said:


> Didn’t know that but it’s a piddly little operation as opposed to the big breweries.
> 
> And a presumably minuscule percentage of overall sales so my point stands.



What is your point? 

I made what I thought was fair minded post about Antic and I'm at a loss to know what exactly you are getting at.


----------



## editor (Nov 19, 2017)

snowy_again said:


> Volder's the 'beer' equivalent of Carling - the cynic in me thinks done in the last 18 months to jump on a band wagon and to reduce their own purchasing costs. That and antic still having a snide reputation of poor invoice processing to small companies.


Two and a half years ago, actually. Despite your patronising comment, I'm all for pubs offering at least one really cheap beer for the less well off.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 19, 2017)

editor said:


> Two and a half years ago, actually. Despite your patronising comment, I'm all for pubs offering at least one really cheap beer for the less well off.



Is it actually cheaper though ?

The tax break is worth 26p per pint on a 5% beer, so if it’s not that much cheaper then....

Alex


----------



## alcopop (Nov 19, 2017)

alex_ said:


> And they’ll get small brewers tax relief, so it’ll cost less, this is a tax dodge.
> 
> Alex


That’s true


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 19, 2017)

FYI


----------



## CH1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> FYIView attachment 120884


Two staff from Brixton Rec turned up at my GP's Patient Participation Group on Thursday.

They were offering one day free trials, but refused to give any indication of costs when I asked as direct question about ongoing gym use after their presentation.
Apparently they do special deals for people referred by the doctor, but otherwise they seems to operate like double glazing salesmen - you agree a "plan" with them advising indicating what use of the facilities you were going to have.

It surprised me they didn't turn up with explanatory leaflets. For a couch potato like me I would like to know what was available and exactly how much it would cost. Can you imagine going into a supermarket with no prices on the shelves?

Basically I think these things are tick-box exercises. The GP has to hold healthy living events, and the Rec has to do outreach to GPs.

I doubt either seriously expect to make any converts to a gym-based lifestyle amongst a few pensioners and long term sick GP patients.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Is it actually cheaper though ?
> 
> The tax break is worth 26p per pint on a 5% beer, so if it’s not that much cheaper then....
> 
> Alex


Last time I looked, it was £3.30 a pint, which is very 'actually' a lot cheaper than what most places offer. 

I've no idea at all what possible fucking relevance a 'tax break' has to to someone who can't afford trendy craft beer in trendy bars, so perhaps you can explain your point.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 20, 2017)

editor said:


> Last time I looked, it was £3.30 a pint, which is very 'actually' a lot cheaper than what most places offer.
> 
> I've no idea at all what possible fucking relevance a 'tax break' has to to someone who can't afford trendy craft beer in trendy bars, so perhaps you can explain your point.



Short version, breweries below a certain size get  50% off beer duty - which as pointed out above is a pretty handy slice of a pint of 5% beer.

So a smallish chain of pubs setting up their own brewery which only supply’s them makes a lot of sense. As they’ll be able to take advantage of the tax relief, which is this case they seem to be passing onto their customers. Which is nice of them.

Alex


----------



## teuchter (Nov 20, 2017)

Antic took advantage of a special form of tax "relief", where they simply didn't pay it, along with various suppliers, by closing down a company and starting a new one, a little while back, didn't they?


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 20, 2017)

CH1 said:


> Two staff from Brixton Rec turned up at my GP's Patient Participation Group on Thursday.
> 
> They were offering one day free trials, but refused to give any indication of costs when I asked as direct question about ongoing gym use after their presentation.
> Apparently they do special deals for people referred by the doctor, but otherwise they seems to operate like double glazing salesmen - you agree a "plan" with them advising indicating what use of the facilities you were going to have.
> ...



Surprised they couldn't at least give you the examples of memberships that are online:

Memberships at Brixton Recreation Centre | Lambeth | Better


----------



## alcopop (Nov 20, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Antic took advantage of a special form of tax "relief", where they simply didn't pay it, along with various suppliers, by closing down a company and starting a new one, a little while back, didn't they?


Was that the anomaly?


----------



## teuchter (Nov 20, 2017)

alcopop said:


> Was that the anomaly?


What do you mean?


----------



## alcopop (Nov 20, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> I agree with Ed. Its an anomaly.  I may be wrong but the guy who owns it is into pubs but works with private equity backing. Kind of understandingly as larger equity is needed.  But I get impression this private equity is not for all the business. But for individual sites.


As per above


----------



## Twattor (Nov 20, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Antic took advantage of a special form of tax "relief", where they simply didn't pay it, along with various suppliers, by closing down a company and starting a new one, a little while back, didn't they?


£1.7m owed to HMRC with total debts of £2.3m.  Their profitable pubs went into a phoenix company trading under the same name.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Short version, breweries below a certain size get  50% off beer duty - which as pointed out above is a pretty handy slice of a pint of 5% beer.
> 
> So a smallish chain of pubs setting up their own brewery which only supply’s them makes a lot of sense. As they’ll be able to take advantage of the tax relief, which is this case they seem to be passing onto their customers. Which is nice of them.
> 
> Alex


I don't think the less well off give much of a shit about how the cheap pint comes to them - I imagine they're just grateful that in a sea of trendy expensive craft 'pubs,' container park community green oasis's and £5/pint pop ups there's somewhere they can afford to drink.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

This looks fun if you've got kids








Join the Lambeth Festive Lights night bike ride, Sunday 17th Dec from 4pm


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

Twattor said:


> £1.7m owed to HMRC with total debts of £2.3m.  Their profitable pubs went into a phoenix company trading under the same name.


They've had some very dubious financial dealings in the past and they've unforgivably screwed over people they owed money to. I can't go into full-on 100% h8er mode though because, on the other hand, they're one of the very very few companies re-opening (and opening up) new pubs that are way more affordable than all the wanky hipster shit for the well heeled nu-incomers.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 20, 2017)

shakespearegirl said:


> Surprised they couldn't at least give you the examples of memberships that are online:
> 
> Memberships at Brixton Recreation Centre | Lambeth | Better


Possibly they couldn't because it's too complicated.  

The link you gave shows several permutations. In my own case it looks like he would have had to offer over 60 health and fitness rate of £29.60 per months pus a set-up fee of £41.35 to pay cycle hire deposit (what for??).

Frankly if I was going to get into this sort of thing I reckon I would be better off buying the equipment from Argos [though that doesn't solve the problem of what happens with an exercise-induced heart attack!]


----------



## alcopop (Nov 20, 2017)

editor said:


> They've had some very dubious financial dealings in the past and they've unforgivably screwed over people they owed money to. I can't go into full-on 100% h8er mode though because, on the other hand, they're one of the very very few companies re-opening (and opening up) new pubs that are way more affordable than all the wanky hipster shit for the well heeled nu-incomers.


And also because you work for them?


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

alcopop said:


> And also because you work for them?


Ah, the classic cowardly ad hominem from someone who can hide their own particulars behind the comfort blanket of anonymity. Nice.

The fact that I've recently been DJing one of their bars around once a month has precisely fuck all to do what I think of the company as a whole. In fact, go through my posts and you'll see I've held the same opinion before, during and after the times I've DJd their pub. I'm not employed by them directly anyway.

And what I've just said hardly adds up to a ringing endorsement for the company: _"They've had some very dubious financial dealings in the past and they've unforgivably screwed over people they owed money to."_


----------



## alex_ (Nov 20, 2017)

editor said:


> I don't think the less well off give much of a shit about how the cheap pint comes to them - I imagine they're just grateful that in a sea of trendy expensive craft 'pubs,' container park community green oasis's and £5/pint pop ups there's somewhere they can afford to drink.



I’ve never said they would, I’ve said that this is more of a subsidy from the chancellor than the pub chains charity

Alex


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 20, 2017)

Sounds like Antic are the ugly face of Capitalism; screwing over small businesses to their own end. But, sub £5 pints? Forgive and forget for those prices.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 20, 2017)

snowy_again said:


> Volder's the 'beer' equivalent of Carling


  er no. Its is nothing at all, in any way like carling. Maybe processed fizz like John Smiths could be compared that way.  

Volden is a bitter. A session ale - ie you can drink 4 pints and not fall over. A real ale that tastes of something. And only £3.30 a pint. Volden is such a welcome releif in a sea of blonde, pale ale, IPA and other fizzy, citrusy pale 5% stong 'craft' ales which may be ok, if you like that sort of thing - but some of us like a pint of bitter.

I prefer not to look too closely at the politics and behaviours of those who sell beer for fear that I will have to become tea total on principal.  The horror...


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 20, 2017)

alcopop said:


> As per above



I've had a long day. 

Can you get to the point. 

I really don't know what you are going on about in relation to my posts on this thread.

If you have a problem with recent posts of mine can you please clarify what the issue is.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 20, 2017)

I post up actual chat I had with a local small business about how they are being shafted by Pubco. Then make what I thought was fair minded remark about Antic. Trying not to make assumptions.

For the record I don't use the Dogstar. Ive also opposed some of Antics planning applications for various reasons. 

Just thought I'd make this clear after skimming through recent posts.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 20, 2017)

SpamMisery said:


> Sounds like Antic are the ugly face of Capitalism; screwing over small businesses to their own end. But, sub £5 pints? Forgive and forget for those prices.



Whose forgiving and forgetting? You? Taken literally that is how your post reads. And I know you don't like people reading things into your posts. So to clarify the literal meaning of this post corresponds to what you mean?


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 20, 2017)

CH1 said:


> Two staff from Brixton Rec turned up at my GP's Patient Participation Group on Thursday.
> 
> They were offering one day free trials, but refused to give any indication of costs when I asked as direct question about ongoing gym use after their presentation.
> Apparently they do special deals for people referred by the doctor, but otherwise they seems to operate like double glazing salesmen - you agree a "plan" with them advising indicating what use of the facilities you were going to have.
> ...



Thanks for this first hand account.

GLL/ Better when questioned by BRUG say they are interested outreach to sections of community who would benefit from using the Rec. Better/GLL have a management contract with the Council. It's been hard to get details of how in the contract GLL/ Better are meant to get a cross section of the community to use the Rec. BRUG have been promised that will get more info on profile of those who use the Rec.

( Btw it's now clear the gym/library is not being done under a separate contract with GLL/Better. It's being down in some way under existing leisure management contract. Which is risk to existing leisure centres.)

When pushed the response from GLL mge is that they do a lot of outreach. It's not there fault if people don't take it up.

I'm concerned that the people from GLL didn't give costings. Even when asked. A GP can refer someone but it's for limited period. The Brixton Rec has a separate gym for those with particular issues who are referred by GP.

It's now official Council policy to try to encourage people to be more physically active. For health reasons. It's good preventative health policy. Why BRUG have been asking GLL/ Council how that will work with the Rec.

My feeling is that GLL/ Better operate most of the time like a standard leisure provider. The monthly gym memberships are a big money spinner. GLL/Better look at what other private leisure companies provide. Like Virgin Active. The GLL/ Better head office look at what is "on trend" in gym business and get there local managers to tailor the gym business to that. Not on local demographic.

Did the two GLL people tell you about the difference between monthly membership and PAYG membership? Or discounts on membership if you are in receipt of benefits?

One ongoing issue BRUG have is that it's really hard to get clear info on website or in leaflets of prices.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> Whose forgiving and forgetting?


Certainly not me, that's for sure. 

In fact, I couldn't have made that fact any clearer when I said, "They've had some very dubious financial dealings in the past and they've* unforgivably* screwed over people they owed money to."


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

Have to say I like the 414's efforts to stop their customers joining the ranks of the_ al fresco_ pissers around town. They have these reminders in several strategic locations around the venue


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 20, 2017)

shakespearegirl said:


> Surprised they couldn't at least give you the examples of memberships that are online:
> 
> Memberships at Brixton Recreation Centre | Lambeth | Better



Had another look at this. A problem with Better is they don't have separate website for Brixton Rec. Info on prices at Rec is spread over several pages. It doesn't easily show the different options. Like how to get the PAYG leisure card. It says that there is pre paid membership but doesn't clearly say how much.

The website is pushing the monthly memberships. Which is what Better like. 

Unusually for such a large leisure centre a large percentage of users are PAYG. Which is sign of the Rec being in a not well off area.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

Bit of a Biblical font going down on this property on Brixton Hill!


----------



## CH1 (Nov 20, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> Thanks for this first hand account.
> 
> Did the two GLL people tell you about the difference between monthly membership and PAYG membership? Or discounts on membership if you are in receipt of benefits?
> 
> One ongoing issue BRUG have is that it's really hard to get clear info on website or in leaflets of prices.


One of the Brixton Rec/Better people did mention pay as you go, but again no specific details.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 20, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> Had another look at this. A problem with Better is they don't have separate website for Brixton Rec. Info on prices at Rec is spread over several pages. It doesn't easily show the different options. Like how to get the PAYG leisure card. It says that there is pre paid membership but doesn't clearly say how much.
> 
> The website is pushing the monthly memberships. Which is what Better like.
> 
> Unusually for such a large leisure centre a large percentage of users are PAYG. Which is sign of the Rec being in a not well off area.


I can appreciate the psychology of a direct debit. Might make you attend a lot. Like a Proms season ticket.

But if you are very tentatively thinking about retrying regular exercise surely it is more of a con - because a large percentage of people would not use it regularly, and yet be reluctant to cancel.

It's the same idea as subscribing to Rees Mogg's dad's share tip sheet the Fleet Street Letter in my view. How many people made money out of THAT?


----------



## CH1 (Nov 21, 2017)

Excuse if this is a bit off topic Brixton-wise (but 80% of Lambeth voters apparently supported remain)
I went to a meeting/book launch at the Railway Clapham North tonight.
Lambeth and Wandsworth for Europe had Denis MacShane talking, answering questions and signing his book.

Denis's analysis in the talk was not totally positive. To sum it up he is not a fan of referendums and sees no point in having a second referendum.
He thinks that the best hope is to persuade MPs to retain as many benefits as possible of EU membership, whilst forfeiting the right to have MEPs etc.

Vicky Price was in attendance incidentally. A bit "Clapham Set"?  I have to hand it to the door staff. Although I had booked on Facebook, I had not confirmed on Eventbrite and they went out of their way to find me a seat.


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2017)

Another ace night at the 414!












In photos – late night live jazz and reggae at Bar 414 on Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


----------



## CH1 (Nov 21, 2017)

Just wanted to point out that Simon Stevens, CEO of the NHS who keeps popping upwarning the NHS needs more money was Councillor for Angell Ward (now called Coldharbour) 1998-2002.
Lambeth London Borough Council election, 1998 - Wikipedia

Interesting to note that one of his fellow councillors - Donatus Anyanwu - is still around!


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 22, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> Had another look at this. A problem with Better is they don't have separate website for Brixton Rec. Info on prices at Rec is spread over several pages. It doesn't easily show the different options. Like how to get the PAYG leisure card. It says that there is pre paid membership but doesn't clearly say how much.
> 
> The website is pushing the monthly memberships. Which is what Better like.
> 
> Unusually for such a large leisure centre a large percentage of users are PAYG. Which is sign of the Rec being in a not well off area.


when I was a member it was good value if you wanted to join just the gym (about £30 p/m) or just the swimming but expensive to join both at about £45.

The payg option explained to me was very expensive. £5.50 for the gym but with no access to the pool too.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2017)

Some pics from the Dogstar party on Sat. I'm DJing the NYE party there too so PM if you want free guest passes 
















In photos: Saturday night at the Brixton Dogstar with Brixton Buzz on the decks, Sat 18th Nov 2017


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2017)

Gordon Bennett it's windy out there right now!


----------



## blameless77 (Nov 23, 2017)

And their 


Gramsci said:


> Had another look at this. A problem with Better is they don't have separate website for Brixton Rec. Info on prices at Rec is spread over several pages. It doesn't easily show the different options. Like how to get the PAYG leisure card. It says that there is pre paid membership but doesn't clearly say how much.
> 
> The website is pushing the monthly memberships. Which is what Better like.
> 
> Unusually for such a large leisure centre a large percentage of users are PAYG. Which is sign of the Rec being in a not well off area.


provision for children and young people is woeful. I remember as a child being able to (affordably) spend the whole day in the leisure centre - it was an option for kids whose parents couldn't afford to send them to a holiday camp in the summer. That's not the case any more. If you're not into football, then you can go whistle. Greenwich leisure! They should be called 'worse' not 'better'.


----------



## editor (Nov 23, 2017)

Grim stuff
Report: Lambeth is the second worst borough in London for air pollution


----------



## ricbake (Nov 23, 2017)

editor said:


> Grim stuff
> Report: Lambeth is the second worst borough in London for air pollution


Only second worst - its better than I thought!


----------



## Winot (Nov 23, 2017)

blameless77 said:


> And their
> 
> provision for children and young people is woeful. I remember as a child being able to (affordably) spend the whole day in the leisure centre - it was an option for kids whose parents couldn't afford to send them to a holiday camp in the summer. That's not the case any more. If you're not into football, then you can go whistle. Greenwich leisure! They should be called 'worse' not 'better'.



Kids can spend a whole day swimming for something like £2. And soft play was cheaper than anywhere else (when mine were younger - haven’t been for a while).


----------



## editor (Nov 23, 2017)

The pumpkin ravioli dish in San Marino is ruddy delish. That is all.


----------



## Winot (Nov 23, 2017)

Winot said:


> Kids can spend a whole day swimming for something like £2. And soft play was cheaper than anywhere else (when mine were younger - haven’t been for a while).



The Rec is also the home of Brixton Topcats basketball team, which seems to do good work with local young people. And their games are free to watch (usually Sundays). 

They are crowdfunding if anyone is feeing generous:

Brixton Topcats Basketball Club


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 23, 2017)

Winot said:


> Kids can spend a whole day swimming for something like £2. And soft play was cheaper than anywhere else (when mine were younger - haven’t been for a while).



The softplay still is very cheap and very large compared to others


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 23, 2017)

blameless77 said:


> And their
> 
> provision for children and young people is woeful. I remember as a child being able to (affordably) spend the whole day in the leisure centre - it was an option for kids whose parents couldn't afford to send them to a holiday camp in the summer. That's not the case any more. If you're not into football, then you can go whistle. Greenwich leisure! They should be called 'worse' not 'better'.



I understand what you are getting at.

Unless you can pay the Rec is no longer a place for younger people. I see parents in swimming pool with very young children. But not many young teenagers.

Provision in general for children/ young people has gone.Now London is getting divided between those who can afford activities outside school and those who can't. It's a class issue.

For example the Adventure playgrounds.

It's all very well for some people to think that GLL/Better prices are competitive. But a few pounds for many in Coldharbour Ward is a few pounds to much. In summer Rec has activities for young children. At a price which is "competitive". But to much in one of the poorest Wards in Lambeth.

Secondly spending all day in the Rec isn't encouraged now. It'sdesign and purpose was a Recreation centre. Not just an exercise space. In its early days you could, as you say, affordably spend all day in the Rec. That's what it was meant for.


----------



## Maharani (Nov 23, 2017)

And the winner of this thread for lolz goes to... Nanker Phelge


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 23, 2017)

Winot said:


> The Rec is also the home of Brixton Topcats basketball team, which seems to do good work with local young people. And their games are free to watch (usually Sundays).
> 
> They are crowdfunding if anyone is feeing generous:
> 
> Brixton Topcats Basketball Club



To make it clear GLL/ Better charge Topcats for use of the Rec.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 23, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> when I was a member it was good value if you wanted to join just the gym (about £30 p/m) or just the swimming but expensive to join both at about £45.
> 
> The payg option explained to me was very expensive. £5.50 for the gym but with no access to the pool too.



This is the same price as private gyms. Some are a bit cheaper like Easygym. Agree combining more than one activity and it starts to get very expensive.

Many people I know swim on PAYG. The Lambeth leisure card gets off peak discounts. Swimming prices on PAYG are feasible. 


Imo the PAYG prices have been set to encourage people onto monthly debit. This isn't feasible for many people. The Lambeth leisure card for PAYG is also not cheap. £37.50 for one adult each year. There are concession. But you have to be on some kind of benefit. I talk to many people who would like to use Rec but find prices to high and they don't want to be on direct debit. Many people just about scrape by. Cost is a factor.

Over 60s free swimming was removed some time ago. Which if the Council wants to get people more active should be reinstated. I noticed drop in older people using pool when free over 60s swimming was scrapped.

I think PAYG prices should be reduced , over 60s free swimming brought back.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 23, 2017)

My problem with GLL/ Better and the Rec, gym in particular, is that Better go on about gym as though they have to compete with the likes of Virgin. Better see themselves as one of the big players in the thriving gym business.

Except they aren't. They have made there business getting access to publicly owned buildings. The risk of the Rec building still rests with the Council. GLL/ Better relationship with public authorities gives them a competitive edge over private gym providers. What I see is danger that GLL/ Better forget they aren't meant to be a private gym business.

They should just be an outsourced management agent for the Council. Nothing more or less.


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 24, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> My problem with GLL/ Better and the Rec, gym in particular, is that Better go on about gym as though they have to compete with the likes of Virgin.
> 
> They should just be an outsourced management agent for the Council. Nothing more or less.


Better are the outsourced to provide the whole package, that’s their brief. Fair enough if you think there should be a different structure for managing the Rec. I personally think they do a good job managing the it from what I saw of them.

Facility wise they need to be competitive with other gyms in the space otherwise many fewer people would use it. Then there might be no money to keep the Rec open at all. 

Of course pricing is too high for many users. I don’t think you can blame Better per se for that. The pricing and model is probably what they need to do to keep the whole place up and running. This is where the council should come in and subsidise the cost of using it for those who need it.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 24, 2017)

Maybe the Rec should just make sandwiches to earn a few bob more.

It's the new reality.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 24, 2017)

Speaking of the rec, does anyone have any experience of the nursery there?


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2017)

Some things on this weekend: 
Brixton What’s On: bars, gigs and clubs in and around town this weekend, Fri 24th – Sun 26th Nov 2017

If anyone wants to come to Market House tonight, send me a message and I'll put you on the free guest list: 
Brixton tonight! Beyoncé to Britpop: Brixton Buzz party at Market House – mail us NOW for free guest passes! Fri 24th Nov


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2017)

As I mentioned in the Photo ID thread, the Prince of Wales now insists on demanding ID to be scanned before you can get in on a Thursday. Word is that there was punch up and a stabbing there last Thursday and 8 mobile phones stolen.


----------



## brixtonblade (Nov 24, 2017)

Rushy said:


> Speaking of the rec, does anyone have any experience of the nursery there?


2 years old info... 
I thought it was fine as a creche for when I was in the rec.
Didn't like it as much as a full time nursery - theyd just opened and hadn't got things running smoothly and had to change managers very soon after opening. Not much outdoor space either


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 24, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Maybe the Rec should just make sandwiches to earn a few bob more.
> 
> It's the new reality.


I guess if a joke is worth making it’s worth making repeatedly


----------



## Winot (Nov 24, 2017)

Rushy said:


> Speaking of the rec, does anyone have any experience of the nursery there?



Backing out of Daddy-day-care already? 

No direct experience but it seems well-used - I turn up for my spin class at 5.30pm on a Friday and there are loads of parents doing pick-up.

If you are looking at nurseries have a look at Little Angels also (Gresham Rd). Ours were both there and their favourite member of staff still babysits them and still works there, 10 years on.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 24, 2017)

Winot said:


> Backing out of Daddy-day-care already?


No fear! Looking at nursery two or three days.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 24, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> I guess if a joke is worth making it’s worth making repeatedly



Is it?


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 24, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Is it?


You seem to think so


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 24, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> You seem to think so



Do I?


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2017)

This is a very strange article: Where (And How) To Be Polyamorous In London


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 24, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> Better are the outsourced to provide the whole package, that’s their brief. Fair enough if you think there should be a different structure for managing the Rec. I personally think they do a good job managing the it from what I saw of them.
> 
> Facility wise they need to be competitive with other gyms in the space otherwise many fewer people would use it. Then there might be no money to keep the Rec open at all.
> 
> Of course pricing is too high for many users. I don’t think you can blame Better per se for that. The pricing and model is probably what they need to do to keep the whole place up and running. This is where the council should come in and subsidise the cost of using it for those who need it.



First thing the contract between GLL/ Better detail isn't in the public domain. So you saying Better are there to "provide whole package" begs the question what package? Now as I have posted before GLL/ Better and Council are pursuing speculative gym/ library venture under existing contract the "whole package" argument need more questioning. Joe public really doesn't have full knowledge of how the Better/ Council relationship works. 

Given that the Council underwrite the risk of the Rec building and are still responsible for major repairs GLL imo are onto a good thing. They took on management of building with existing users. Didn't have to start from scratch. In theory they are a social enterprise. Fair enough. In which case they should not be comparing themselves with private providers. I don't think it's a sign of success of there not for profit social enterprise model that they charge more than some private providers. 

The Council do make sure there are concession for those on benefits. My point is that in Brixton area there are a lot of low paid workers who aren't on benefits. That can't easily afford Rec prices. I don't like the word subsidise. I prefer the word affordable.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 24, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> In theory they are a social enterprise. Fair enough.


Not sure being a Social Enterprise is fair enough.
It also means that you need to pay £12 for each and every document and piece of information about them as you will find here:
https://mutuals.fsa.gov.uk/SocietyDetails.aspx?Number=27793&Suffix=R


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## Mr Retro (Nov 25, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> First thing the contract between GLL/ Better detail isn't in the public domain. So you saying Better are there to "provide whole package" begs the question what package? Now as I have posted before GLL/ Better and Council are pursuing speculative gym/ library venture under existing contract the "whole package" argument need more questioning. Joe public really doesn't have full knowledge of how the Better/ Council relationship works.
> 
> Given that the Council underwrite the risk of the Rec building and are still responsible for major repairs GLL imo are onto a good thing. They took on management of building with existing users. Didn't have to start from scratch. In theory they are a social enterprise. Fair enough. In which case they should not be comparing themselves with private providers. I don't think it's a sign of success of there not for profit social enterprise model that they charge more than some private providers.
> 
> The Council do make sure there are concession for those on benefits. My point is that in Brixton area there are a lot of low paid workers who aren't on benefits. That can't easily afford Rec prices. I don't like the word subsidise. I prefer the word affordable.


How do you think they can make it affordable without subsidy and also run the Rec?

Comparing the Rec and for example easyGym like you are doing is totally false. easyGym have no pools or saunas which are ruinously expensive to run. Nor of course do they have nursery care, climbing walls, courts,indoor bowling etc etc.


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## Gramsci (Nov 25, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> How do you think they can make it affordable without subsidy and also run the Rec?
> 
> Comparing the Rec and for example easyGym like you are doing is totally false. easyGym have no pools or saunas which are ruinously expensive to run. Nor of course do they have nursery care, climbing walls, courts,indoor bowling etc etc.




The Rec has been making a surplus/ profit for years. It hasn't been subsidised. The surplus/ profit has been going back to Council. After GLL/ Better have taken there cut and Council kept some back to pay for there responsibilities as owner of building.


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## CH1 (Nov 25, 2017)

For those who can't wait for the Brixton Christmas lights turn-on on 1st December 6pm- 8pm  Tunstall Road
there is a posher more regenerative appetiser:
Christmas Lights Switch On


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 25, 2017)

WTF is going on in max roach adventure playground? It sounds like they are running a club night.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 25, 2017)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> WTF is going on in max roach adventure playground? It sounds like they are running a club night.


Is this the "Protected by Guardians" people?
I'm shocked.
Deeply shocked.


----------



## editor (Nov 25, 2017)

Fucking hell the Albert is all but unrecognisable tonight. Stuffed full of new faces with some supremely annoying drunk twats in tow, with the odd leering idiot and a racist dick thrown in for good measure. Sigh.


----------



## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

To be fair, there are plenty of normal, nice people here too, but they don't tend to catch the eye as much as someone braying away in the pub!


----------



## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

And as soon as I get chance I'm going to work out how to turn off that bloody Tapatalk advert. Sorry about that folks.
[removed!]


----------



## madolesance (Nov 26, 2017)

Has anyone else noticed all the Palestinian flags in the tree in Windrush Square?


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## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

madolesance said:


> Has anyone else noticed all the Palestinian flags in the tree in Windrush Square?


Yes, they went up a couple of weeks ago. I like them.


----------



## T & P (Nov 26, 2017)

Checked The Synpathetic Ear today. They’d just opened and there was nobody else there, so couldn’t judge it on the ambience. But I liked the look of the place, and the draft beer I had.

Very good selection of beers on the shelves. Some of the bottles and cans had quite outrageous prices, even with the 25% take-away discount, but so long as there is also reasonably priced booze available, it doesn’t bother me much.


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## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

T & P said:


> Checked The Synpathetic Ear today. They’d just opened and there was nobody else there, so couldn’t judge it on the ambience. But I liked the look of the place, and the draft beer I had.
> 
> Very good selection of beers on the shelves. Some of the bottles and cans had quite outrageous prices, even with the 25% take-away discount, but so long as there is also reasonably priced booze available, it doesn’t bother me much.


Could you give us an idea of how much an 'outrageous' price is, please?


----------



## Angellic (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> Yes, they went up a couple of weeks ago. I like them.



Any specific reason as to why they are there?


----------



## alex_ (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> As I mentioned in the Photo ID thread, the Prince of Wales now insists on demanding ID to be scanned before you can get in on a Thursday. Word is that there was punch up and a stabbing there last Thursday and 8 mobile phones stolen.



It’s been like this for a while, at least a year.

Alex


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## alex_ (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> Could you give us an idea of how much an 'outrageous' price is, please?



3.65 for most of the cans of moor beer, to drink in, with a glass. I think for a craft beer bar it’s cheap,  no cask beer though.

Recent price list here 

Alex


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## T & P (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> Could you give us an idea of how much an 'outrageous' price is, please?


£7.10 for a can of beer, I think it was The Prince and the Pauper. That is obviously the exception not the norm.


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## alex_ (Nov 26, 2017)

T & P said:


> £7.10 for a can of beer, I think it was The Prince and the Pauper. That is obviously the exception not the norm.



That beer costs 5.80 from the mikeller shop Prince & Pauper

22% markup to drink it in a bar seems pretty reasonable, typical restaurant mark up on wine is 3x.

Alex


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## T & P (Nov 26, 2017)

alex_ said:


> That beer costs 5.80 from the mikeller shop Prince & Pauper
> 
> 22% markup to drink it in a bar seems pretty reasonable, typical restaurant mark up on wine is 3x.
> 
> Alex


It is indeed a reasonable mark up. And i’m not suggesting such price is due to profiteering by the premises in question.


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## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

alex_ said:


> That beer costs 5.80 from the mikeller shop Prince & Pauper
> 
> 22% markup to drink it in a bar seems pretty reasonable, typical restaurant mark up on wine is 3x.
> 
> Alex


Except they're unlikely to be buying it at that price given that they're a pub.


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## alex_ (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> Except they're unlikely to be buying it at that price given that they're a pub.



Ok, what would a standard markup on a retail price be ?

( And you are right 3x is a typical mark up on wholesale )

Alex


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## teuchter (Nov 26, 2017)

T & P said:


> Checked The Synpathetic Ear today. They’d just opened and there was nobody else there, so couldn’t judge it on the ambience. But I liked the look of the place, and the draft beer I had.
> 
> Very good selection of beers on the shelves. Some of the bottles and cans had quite outrageous prices, even with the 25% take-away discount, but so long as there is also reasonably priced booze available, it doesn’t bother me much.


Have they got any non-alcoholic/low alcohol/small beer options?

Beer places really need to get onto this - I'm sure there's a growing market, or at least a market, for sub-3% beers. I think craft breweries are a bit lazy in relying too much on high %s to make their brews tasty. They need to step up to the challenge and produce some really good low alcohol stuff. And at the non-alcoholic end of things, Brewdog pretty much have a monopoly on N.A. beer that isn't bland lager.


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## T & P (Nov 26, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Have they got any non-alcoholic/low alcohol/small beer options?
> 
> Beer places really need to get onto this - I'm sure there's a growing market, or at least a market, for sub-3% beers. I think craft breweries are a bit lazy in relying too much on high %s to make their brews tasty. They need to step up to the challenge and produce some really good low alcohol stuff. And at the non-alcoholic end of things, Brewdog pretty much have a monopoly on N.A. beer that isn't bland lager.


Sorry, I did not notice but then I didn’t check every shelf.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 26, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Have they got any non-alcoholic/low alcohol/small beer options?
> 
> Beer places really need to get onto this - I'm sure there's a growing market, or at least a market, for sub-3% beers. I think craft breweries are a bit lazy in relying too much on high %s to make their brews tasty. They need to step up to the challenge and produce some really good low alcohol stuff. And at the non-alcoholic end of things, Brewdog pretty much have a monopoly on N.A. beer that isn't bland lager.



Kernel Table Beer is low alcohol and very nice to drink. It differs in % per brew, but is never strong. Easy to drink. A great tipple and a good price.


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## Winot (Nov 26, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Kernel Table Beer is low alcohol and very nice to drink. It differs in % per brew, but is never strong. Easy to drink. A great tipple and a good price.


 
Seconded. Seems to range from 2.9-3.2%, but has the taste of a stronger brew. Must get some in.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 26, 2017)

Winot said:


> Seconded. Seems to range from 2.9-3.2%, but has the taste of a stronger brew. Must get some in.



Bobs wines in Tulse Hill has stock


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## alex_ (Nov 26, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Have they got any non-alcoholic/low alcohol/small beer options?
> 
> Beer places really need to get onto this - I'm sure there's a growing market, or at least a market, for sub-3% beers. I think craft breweries are a bit lazy in relying too much on high %s to make their brews tasty. They need to step up to the challenge and produce some really good low alcohol stuff. And at the non-alcoholic end of things, Brewdog pretty much have a monopoly on N.A. beer that isn't bland lager.



Yes there was a zero percent German wheat beer, can’t remember which one, probably others too.

And I drank a pint of something hoppy and 3.2%, which was very nice. 

Alex


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## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Ok, what would a standard markup on a retail price be ?
> 
> ( And you are right 3x is a typical mark up on wholesale )


You can buy it for £3.95. I can't be arsed to work out the mark up on that but it's a lot. 
http://www.beergonzo.co.uk/buy/beer/mikkeller-prince-pauper-p4163

If you're going to argue that £7.20 for a single can of 3.9% beer is somehow 'affordable,' I can only assume that you are very well off indeed.


----------



## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

As we're talking about beer, I have to say I haven't really enjoyed any of the Brixton Brewery beers I've tried. They always taste too hoppy or too bitter for my tastes.


----------



## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

Perhaps the bubble is going to burst on the Village/Pop foodie trend 

Who killed London’s restaurant scene?


----------



## alex_ (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> You can buy it for £3.95. I can't be arsed to work out the mark up on that but it's a lot.
> http://www.beergonzo.co.uk/buy/beer/mikkeller-prince-pauper-p4163
> 
> If you're going to argue that £7.20 for a single can of 3.9% beer is somehow 'affordable,' I can only assume that you are very well off indeed.



The mark up is less than 2x, 2 x 3.95 being more than 7.20, also it’s out of stock so your point of “you can buy it” isn’t entirely accurate, but you can have “you could once buy it” if you want.

You are again doing your trick of taking the most expensive thing on a menu, and trying to whip up mock outrage by making out that that’s an average price.

No one is “argueing that £7.20 for a single can of 3.9% beer is somehow affordable”, so this is a straw man argument.

However nearly all the craft beer there is sub 5 quid a pint and there were loads of great craft cans for less than 4 quid - which makes this a cheap place to drink craft beer.

Not as cheap as spoons but the range at spoons won’t be so good.

Alex


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## alex_ (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> As we're talking about beer, I have to say I haven't really enjoyed any of the Brixton Brewery beers I've tried. They always taste too hoppy or too bitter for my tastes.



Totally agree, I’m not a fan - it’s improved a lot since it opened, but I’ve had some pretty bad ones.

It’s one of those breweries I’ve mentally filed under “unreliable, avoid”

I’ve had some nice pints of windrush stout though.

Alex


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 26, 2017)

I've been looking at the review of the Lambeth local plan. The consultation ends 4th December. The Local plan is the planning guidelines for Lambeth. The consultation is so!it over different themes. I've just done the town centre one. Which covers Brixton and Loughborough Junction.

It's set out well. Giving info on planning and then asking for comments. Splitting it over themes is a good idea. I like a lot of people haven't time to read whole doc. This way means main issues are consulted on.

On Town centres issues are limit on betting shops, protecting existing long established pubs, more nightclubs are they good idea.

Near end is question box on Lambeth bid to win Mayors borough of culture award. Worth doing this questionnaire to object to Lambeth bid.

Lambeth Local Plan Review 2017 | Lambeth Council


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> As we're talking about beer, I have to say I haven't really enjoyed any of the Brixton Brewery beers I've tried. They always taste too hoppy or too bitter for my tastes.



There is one called low voltage (I think) which is really nice and easy to drink.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 26, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Kernel Table Beer is low alcohol and very nice to drink. It differs in % per brew, but is never strong. Easy to drink. A great tipple and a good price.


There's one sitting on my table right now.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 26, 2017)

Ive just done the survey on Local plan review on "Affordable housing" . See post #435

Lambeth Local Plan Review 2017 | Lambeth Council

This is interesting one.

Question on lowering affordable housing on large schemes if property developers agree to 35% affordable without arguing about it. This is Mayors idea. More background in this article I found.

How will Sadiq Khan’s 35% affordable housing threshold work?

Mayor has say in planning so Mayors guidelines are applicable to local Council. I'm not clear if Council can reject them or it is obliged to incorporate them. That is Mayors guidelines trump local Council.

Closer to home there is rather vague question on whether agree to less than 50% "affordable"housing on estate regeneration schemes. That means less affordable housing if all of it is at "Council level rents" rather then other kinds of (un) affordable housing. The question doesn't make clear if the question is referring to council estates. Very vague. Perhaps intentionally.

If I was on Council estate the for regeneration Id be concerned about this question.

ViolentPanda


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 26, 2017)

Done the Transport and Air Quality survey on the Lambeth local plan review.

Lambeth Local Plan Review 2017 | Lambeth Council

Transport one is worth doing if you want to support reduction in car use and support for walking, cycling and public transport.

Planning measures are to encourage more car club space on roads, more electric charging points , no parking on new developments reduce rat runs. 

The review is weak on reducing traffic by road closures. 

The Air Quality survey is technical. Mainly around measures to make sure new developments don't make sure quality worse.


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## teuchter (Nov 26, 2017)

I did the transport one the other day (thanks Gramsci for posting the links a little while back). Made as much use as possible of the "other comments" boxes to ask for better enforcement of speed limits and action against dangerous driving in general.


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## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

alex_ said:


> You are again doing your trick of taking the most expensive thing on a menu, and trying to whip up mock outrage by making out that that’s an average price.


Er, hold on. I didn't bring up the £7.20 beer and at no point have I made any claim that it's an "average price" of anything. Please don't make things up. Thanks.


----------



## editor (Nov 26, 2017)

From FB: 


> Hi all,
> We have been searching for the missing daughter of a dear friend since Tuesday. Her name is Isla and urgently in need of medications. We are really concerned for her safety at this stage. She was spotted busking at Brixton station yesterday. Please, if you see her or have any information call 101. THANKS a million in advance.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 26, 2017)

alex_ said:


> The mark up is less than 2x, 2 x 3.95 being more than 7.20, also it’s out of stock so your point of “you can buy it” isn’t entirely accurate, but you can have “you could once buy it” if you want.
> 
> You are again doing your trick of taking the most expensive thing on a menu, and trying to whip up mock outrage by making out that that’s an average price.
> 
> ...


You are building a case there, but I think the Wetherspoon situation is not necessarily as dire as you describe - depending on branch. I would agree the The Beehive is not dependable for choice (but at £2.19 a pint who cares?).

As regards a nice drink at home of over-hopped ale, I am currently tucking into a 500ml bottle of "Old Crafty Hen" from Tescos at Loughborough Junction (£2 on the nail). Better than I expected, as I tend to find Old Speckled Hen somewhat bland.

If I can find someone of my own age and senility I intend to try this vibrant new bar in Tulse Hill. Shame it isn't in the old Two Woodcocks, that would have given it a heritage aspect.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> Perhaps the bubble is going to burst on the Village/Pop foodie trend
> 
> Who killed London’s restaurant scene?


There is an odd reference in that article. "north London pie and mash institution M Manze is closing after 106 years" it says - but the link points to a website referring to branches in Peckham, Sutton and Tower Bridge Road.

What is the truth about the demise of the north London Pie and Mash chain? I think we should be told!


----------



## tripadvisah (Nov 26, 2017)

editor said:


> You can buy it for £3.95. I can't be arsed to work out the mark up on that but it's a lot.
> http://www.beergonzo.co.uk/buy/beer/mikkeller-prince-pauper-p4163
> 
> If you're going to argue that £7.20 for a single can of 3.9% beer is somehow 'affordable,' I can only assume that you are very well off indeed.


Its not affordable if youre on a budget. same as champagne isn't affordable on a budget so you might drink proseco.  its just what it is though - if you cant afford it don't buy it.

What you charge for a beer in a bar has to pay for the beer, rent, staff (whether they are doing work or not if place is empty), electrictity, gas, insurance (employer liability, public liability, property, stock, business interuption), vat, corporation tax, fixtues and fittings (massive cost if you are a new startup), any council charges inc disposal of waste, food safety training, payment provider charges, business bank account charges, PRS licence, wifi, cleaners, accountants, solicitirs and probably a shitload other stuff.  its hand to mouth running a small business like that, that is a fact.  and if you look at their returns to companies house, they are definitly not creaming massive profits.


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2017)

tripadvisah said:


> Its not affordable if youre on a budget. same as champagne isn't affordable on a budget so you might drink proseco.  its just what it is though - if you cant afford it don't buy it.
> 
> What you charge for a beer in a bar has to pay for the beer, rent, staff (whether they are doing work or not if place is empty), electrictity, gas, insurance (employer liability, public liability, property, stock, business interuption), vat, corporation tax, fixtues and fittings (massive cost if you are a new startup), any council charges inc disposal of waste, food safety training, payment provider charges, business bank account charges, PRS licence, wifi, cleaners, accountants, solicitirs and probably a shitload other stuff.  its hand to mouth running a small business like that, that is a fact.  and if you look at their returns to companies house, they are definitly not creaming massive profits.


However you spin it, £7.20 for a can of weak lager is fucking _outrageously_  expensive, unless you're lucky enough to enjoy a comfortable income.

And, for the record, I'm not accusing the bar of profiteering at all. I'm just commenting on the price of the one beer that was brought up here. If you want to defend it, feel free, but as far as I'm concerned it's a ridiculous price for a can of beer.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 27, 2017)

editor said:


> However you spin it, £7.20 for a can of weak lager is fucking _outrageously_  expensive, unless you're lucky enough to enjoy a comfortable income.
> 
> And, for the record, I'm not accusing the bar of profiteering at all. I'm just commenting on the price of the one beer that was brought up here. If you want to defend it, feel free, but as far as I'm concerned it's a ridiculous price for a can of beer.



Why are you trying to whip up outrage about something being expensive ? Some stuff costs lots of money to make, some stuff is rare, who fucking cares ?

Mikkeller ( the maker of the beer in question ) is a super on trend brewer, that’s why it’s expensive.

I don’t drink it, I don’t know anyone else who drinks it but I’m sure people do, otherwise this craft place wouldn’t be selling it.

Alex


----------



## Tolpuddle (Nov 27, 2017)

Can't find it in the news, but do we get a day off for the royal wedding?? Trumpy for best man??


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Why are you trying to whip up outrage about something being expensive ? Some stuff costs lots of money to make, some stuff is rare, who fucking cares ?


 I have an opinion about a can of weak beer that costs £7.20 being sold locally. This forum is here for people to express their opinions on things happening locally.  There is no 'whipping up' of outrage.


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2017)

A bit about The Sympathetic Ear. I'll have to get along at some point to do a full review.













The Sympathetic Ear – a new bar and bottle shop for Herne Hill, south London


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2017)

San Marino has introduced some more comfortable seating in place of those wobbly pouffes. Wi Fi is still flakey. 

Oh, and Pret A Manger opens on Thursday.


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Nov 27, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> This is the same price as private gyms. Some are a bit cheaper like Easygym. Agree combining more than one activity and it starts to get very expensive.
> 
> Many people I know swim on PAYG. The Lambeth leisure card gets off peak discounts. Swimming prices on PAYG are feasible.
> 
> ...



This discussion has led me to have a look at their group exercise classes.  Training is my one extravagance and I spend a lot of money on it.  I'm always looking at ways to reduce this cost.  I was able to log on a pay for one class at around £8.65 on an extremely old membership that costs nothing.  It's literally me registered with them.  It may sound high but this is a good price that I'm happy to pay.  As I don't have much time to spare the quality will need to be good.  As I've been exercising in this way for over 30 years I'll need to be pushed.  I'll let you know.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 27, 2017)

Lizzy Mac said:


> This discussion has led me to have a look at their group exercise classes.  Training is my one extravagance and I spend a lot of money on it.  I'm always looking at ways to reduce this cost.  I was able to log on a pay for one class at around £8.65 on an extremely old membership that costs nothing.  It's literally me registered with them.  It may sound high but this is a good price that I'm happy to pay.  As I don't have much time to spare the quality will need to be good.  As I've been exercising in this way for over 30 years I'll need to be pushed.  I'll let you know.



When I was last annoyed at the customer service at Brockwell Lido I started shopping around for pilates classes and quickly realised if you attended more than 1 class a week the Lido was cheap.


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Nov 27, 2017)

shakespearegirl said:


> When I was last annoyed at the customer service at Brockwell Lido I started shopping around for pilates classes and quickly realised if you attended more than 1 class a week the Lido was cheap.


I do agree that it's good value but it's not for me.  Perhaps once I can dip my head in the pool (I enhance at the moment).  I like Gail's classes and Angel but it's impossible to book.  I really enjoyed Tracy's old school aerobics too but she seems to have gone.  Plus the yoga that I like there (Nigel and Tania Brown) is not included in the membership.  I've got very demanding over the years.  I only have 30 minutes or an hour some days.  It's got to be a non stop sweat-a-thon with a motivational instructor who knows their stuff.  I need strong arm muscles for work and if I work hard in that short time I can get results but anyone fanning around...  Occasionally I find a good local class for £8 an hour.  That's my favourite.


----------



## Ms T (Nov 27, 2017)

Lizzy Mac said:


> I do agree that it's good value but it's not for me.  Perhaps once I can dip my head in the pool (I enhance at the moment).  I like Gail's classes and Angel but it's impossible to book.  I really enjoyed Tracy's old school aerobics too but she seems to have gone.  Plus the yoga that I like there (Nigel and Tania Brown) is not included in the membership.  I've got very demanding over the years.  I only have 30 minutes or an hour some days.  It's got to be a non stop sweat-a-thon with a motivational instructor who knows their stuff.  I need strong arm muscles for work and if I work hard in that short time I can get results but anyone fanning around...  Occasionally I find a good local class for £8 an hour.  That's my favourite.


The app makes booking easy. I have to set an alarm to book for Rachel’s classes though (Pilates)!


----------



## gaijingirl (Nov 27, 2017)

Ms T said:


> The app makes booking easy. I have to set an alarm for Rachel’s classes though (Pilates)!



...these days you have to set an alarm for lots of the classes - not just Rachel's.  It is annoying.


----------



## Ms T (Nov 27, 2017)

editor said:


> San Marino has introduced some more comfortable seating in place of those wobbly pouffes. Wi Fi is still flakey.
> 
> Oh, and Pret A Manger opens on Thursday.


They’re offering free croissants on Wednesday according to Instagram.


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2017)

Ms T said:


> They’re offering free croissants on Wednesday according to Instagram.


I'm there!


----------



## tripadvisah (Nov 28, 2017)

editor said:


> However you spin it, £7.20 for a can of weak lager is fucking _outrageously_  expensive, unless you're lucky enough to enjoy a comfortable income.
> 
> And, for the record, I'm not accusing the bar of profiteering at all. I'm just commenting on the price of the one beer that was brought up here. If you want to defend it, feel free, but as far as I'm concerned it's a ridiculous price for a can of beer.



An line of argument that has severel flaws in it.
1) It is not weak lager.  Weak lager is stuff like carling and fosters which is mass produced by huge corporates that have MASSIVE economies of scale, unlike the small business costs that i outlined above
2) Weak lager like you say generally tastes of fuck all, this is something brewed as a small batch with very specific ingredients and we dont know how much they cost (and I imagine it probably tastes better than 'weak lager')
3) small batch brewing has much higher overheads than massive corporate heineken crap, and as i mention above, the independent bars have much higher costs to deal with than the pub companies that are tied to buying shit weak lager
4) it is a large 500ml can and not one of the small 330ml cans that most craft beers are served in
5) it is made in sweden and so the cost of getting it to the uk will be a factor
6) price is all relative.  you are loading your argument with decoy emotion, just like the daily mail does.  the price is not '_outrageous_' at all.  it is not cheap but it is also not that expensive comparred to some of the cocktails you buy can in brixton 
7) 'comfortable income' is also subjective and if somebody eanrs an unspecified amount that they choose to spend on a can of this stuff then thats their right

Some things cost more than others,  there are plenty place to go (including the bar that sells it) where you can exercise your right to buy a cheaper drink (or go and drink shitty taste free 3.5% lager somewhere else ifs thats yr bag)  Their prices seem pretty fair for a bar that is selling small batch craft beers and so i imagine this costs more because it costs them more to buy and serve it.

There are many more things in tis life that deserve to labelled 'outrageous'


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

tripadvisah said:


> An line of argument that has severel flaws in it.
> 1) It is not weak lager.  Weak lager is stuff like carling and fosters which is mass produced by huge corporates that have MASSIVE economies of scale, unlike the small business costs that i outlined above
> 2) Weak lager like you say generally tastes of fuck all, this is something brewed as a small batch with very specific ingredients and we dont know how much they cost (and I imagine it probably tastes better than 'weak lager')
> 3) small batch brewing has much higher overheads than massive corporate heineken crap, and as i mention above, the independent bars have much higher costs to deal with than the pub companies that are tied to buying shit weak lager
> ...


Thanks for all that, but £7.20 for a can of 3.9% strength beer is, by any normal measure and budget, fucking expensive.


----------



## bimble (Nov 28, 2017)

tripadvisah I see you're relatively new here so you may have missed previous bouts of The Price Of Beer, the brixton forum's fight.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 28, 2017)

bimble said:


> tripadvisah I see you're relatively new here so you may have missed previous bouts of The Price Of Beer, the brixton forum's fight.



Next week someone else will take a turn to be  disgusted, nay nauseated about the fact that Sainsbury’s sell chocolate biscuits across a price range of 6.90.

This week it’s editors turn about beer.

Alex.

Ps people with facts, logic or experience are not welcome.


----------



## bimble (Nov 28, 2017)

How many chocolate biscuits do you get for £6.90 though and what percentage chocolate are they ? I reserve the right to be outraged.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 28, 2017)

I was chatting to a brewer over the weekend and asked why some beers cost so much more than others. Obviously there were lots of reasons but one was the trend for dry hopping. The dry hops soak up some of the brew before being removed. Some brewers do this to the extent that half the liquid is lost, immediately halving output and more than doubling the cost of each brew.


----------



## Maharani (Nov 28, 2017)

Talking of beers...i’d like to plug my favourite emcee’s new signature brew: Live Up - by Rodney P. I’m trying to get it stocked at Bob’s in Tulse Hill. If anyone sees it at the Sympathetic Ear please let me know...


----------



## teuchter (Nov 28, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Next week someone else will take a turn to be  disgusted, nay nauseated about the fact that Sainsbury’s sell chocolate biscuits across a price range of 6.90.
> 
> This week it’s editors turn about beer.
> 
> ...


Just don't anyone mention smartphones or cameras.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2017)

tripadvisah said:


> An line of argument that has severel flaws in it.
> 1) It is not weak lager.  Weak lager is stuff like carling and fosters which is mass produced by huge corporates that have MASSIVE economies of scale, unlike the small business costs that i outlined above
> 2) Weak lager like you say generally tastes of fuck all, this is something brewed as a small batch with very specific ingredients and we dont know how much they cost (and I imagine it probably tastes better than 'weak lager')
> 3) small batch brewing has much higher overheads than massive corporate heineken crap, and as i mention above, the independent bars have much higher costs to deal with than the pub companies that are tied to buying shit weak lager
> ...


The poverty of your argument, for example


----------



## Twattor (Nov 28, 2017)

Maharani said:


> Talking of beers...i’d like to plug my favourite emcee’s new signature brew: Live Up - by Rodney P. I’m trying to get it stocked at Bob’s in Tulse Hill. If anyone sees it at the Sympathetic Ear please let me know...
> View attachment 121541


Apparently they have it in stock at Hop Burns & Black on East Dulwich Road, but it has also been spotted recently in Art & Craft (although i don't know which one).


----------



## CH1 (Nov 28, 2017)

Rushy said:


> I was chatting to a brewer over the weekend and asked why some beers cost so much more than others. Obviously there were lots of reasons but one was the trend for dry hopping. The dry hops soak up some of the brew before being removed. Some brewers do this to the extent that half the liquid is lost, immediately halving output and more than doubling the cost of each brew.


Interesting. Not heard this before.

Regarding cans - I can't see how canning improves or even preserves the "proper" taste of a beer. 10 years ago I had the misfortune to fly to Lagos on Christmas Day on BA. They served lashings of Fuller's London Pride - in cans.

Frankly I'm not a fan of London Pride particularly, but the canned version was simply vile. Either canning is bad for beer, or maybe Fullers hadn't got the knack. Maybe one of you canned beer buffs can clarify?


----------



## Twattor (Nov 28, 2017)

editor said:


> A bit about The Sympathetic Ear. I'll have to get along at some point to do a full review.
> 
> The Sympathetic Ear – a new bar and bottle shop for Herne Hill, south London


That's a fair review.  Without wanting to start the postcode wars all over again, is it really Herne Hill?


----------



## Twattor (Nov 28, 2017)

CH1 said:


> Interesting. Not heard this before.
> 
> Regarding cans - I can't see how canning improves or even preserves the "proper" taste of a beer. 10 years ago I had the misfortune to fly to Lagos on Christmas Day on BA. They served lashings of Fuller's London Pride - in cans.
> 
> Frankly I'm not a fan of London Pride particularly, but the canned version was simply vile. Either canning is bad for beer, or maybe Fullers hadn't got the knack. Maybe one of you canned beer buffs can clarify?


I'd imagine that in getting to Lagos (unless brewed locally under licence) the cans would have been exposed to some extremes in temperature which couldn't have done much good.  If brewed locally then it could be down to the brewing.

One thing i have noticed recently is that cans of so-called craft beer often have very short best before dates on them, frequently accompanied by exhortations that the flavour diminishes quickly and they should be drunk immediately.  This seems counter-intuitive given that both hopping and canning are intended to preserve, so a beer with both should be twice as well preserved.


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 28, 2017)

CH1 said:


> Interesting. Not heard this before.
> 
> Regarding cans - I can't see how canning improves or even preserves the "proper" taste of a beer. 10 years ago I had the misfortune to fly to Lagos on Christmas Day on BA. They served lashings of Fuller's London Pride - in cans.
> 
> Frankly I'm not a fan of London Pride particularly, but the canned version was simply vile. Either canning is bad for beer, or maybe Fullers hadn't got the knack. Maybe one of you canned beer buffs can clarify?



£1 cans of Polish lager taste fine to me. i doubt ale tastes upto much in a can though


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

Twattor said:


> That's a fair review.  Without wanting to start the postcode wars all over again, is it really Herne Hill?


No it's not, so I changed it.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

alex_ said:


> Next week someone else will take a turn to be  disgusted, nay nauseated about the fact that Sainsbury’s sell chocolate biscuits across a price range of 6.90.
> 
> This week it’s editors turn about beer.
> 
> ...


I've no idea what your point is, but it seems as weak as that £7.20 can of beer.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

Maharani said:


> Talking of beers...i’d like to plug my favourite emcee’s new signature brew: Live Up - by Rodney P. I’m trying to get it stocked at Bob’s in Tulse Hill. If anyone sees it at the Sympathetic Ear please let me know...
> View attachment 121541


I'll ignore the guff about the Napoleonic wood but say that £2.80 for a 5.1% craft beer seems far more reasonable, even if it is in a wee can.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

bimble said:


> How many chocolate biscuits do you get for £6.90 though and what percentage chocolate are they ? I reserve the right to be outraged.








Most expensive I could find were Fox's Chocolatey Premium Biscuit Collection, serving up 365g of chocolate based goodness for just £6. Suitable for Vegetarians too.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

Some pics from a Sunday night out at Hoot/Club 414 with great bands and free entry. 





















Trumpets, Afrobeat, Jazz and Reggae – Hootananny and Bar 414 on a Brixton Sunday night


----------



## CH1 (Nov 28, 2017)

Twattor said:


> I'd imagine that in getting to Lagos (unless brewed locally under licence) the cans would have been exposed to some extremes in temperature which couldn't have done much good.  If brewed locally then it could be down to the brewing.
> 
> One thing i have noticed recently is that cans of so-called craft beer often have very short best before dates on them, frequently accompanied by exhortations that the flavour diminishes quickly and they should be drunk immediately.  This seems counter-intuitive given that both hopping and canning are intended to preserve, so a beer with both should be twice as well preserved.


It was British Airways Heathrow - Lagos, so the cans almost certainly originated in Chiswick!

I just remembered once trying Crafty Dan's 13 Guns from Morrisons. Also vile.
BTW if you check Daniel Thwaites brewery carefully isolate the two arms - Crafty Dan and the original Thwaites Brewery (from Blackburn and still with Shire horses apparently).

It seems to be a matter of taste here - do you like Nitro cans, or do you prefer proper ale with Shire horses?


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

And some pics from our DJ night at Market House. It's a gig you can never quite settle into as the crowd can change completely. Get a couple of songs wrong and they're downstairs, so you've got to keep an eye o the dancefloor.
Similarly, if the DJ downstairs plays a few wrong 'uns you've got to try and quickly capture their disgruntled crowd when they come up!
















In photos: Brixton Buzz spins the tunes at Market House, Fri 24th Nov 2017


----------



## Twattor (Nov 28, 2017)

CH1 said:


> It was British Airways Heathrow - Lagos, so the cans almost certainly originated in Chiswick!
> 
> I just remembered once trying Crafty Dan's 13 Guns from Morrisons. Also vile.
> BTW if you check Daniel Thwaites brewery carefully isolate the two arms - Crafty Dan and the original Thwaites Brewery (from Blackburn and still with Shire horses apparently).
> ...


Brought up on Adnams, whose horses pulled their last dray 10 years ago, and whilst i'll still take a pint of Adnams Bitter or Woodforde's Wherry above any others it is becoming increasingly difficult to find well kept cask ales in Brixton - people just don't have the skills any more in this age of dead nitro beers.  I'm finding i'm moving more to keg beers simply because staff can't fuck them up.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 28, 2017)

£7.20 for a can of beer would put me off trying it. I personally find that too expensive for a can of beer.

I don't consider the strength of a drink when I am making a purchase (As stated above Kernel's Table Beer is a lovely drink to just drink and it ranges in % from 2.9 - 3.2 - it's priced reasonable well and it comes in a 500ml bottle - around £3 in shops)

I have recently paid up to a fiver for a 330ml can because a) I've liked the brewery's previous effort b) I've read good reviews c) I am just trying something new on recommendation

I would much rather pay £4 - £5 for 330ml of something that might taste good, than the same for a pint of standard pub lager.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 28, 2017)

It's a bit depressing to see beer's value being judged on the basis of its strength.

That said I also would find 7.20 a bit much unless I knew it was really, really good.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 28, 2017)

I still struggle with more than £3 for a can in a shop. And I think that's a lot too. There are plenty of decent beers available in the £2 something bracket (but less and less). Its not so much a question of affordability but value. But value is subjective and if there is something that makes 330ml for £11.50 (on the shelf in London Beer Lab) seem worth it to someone, then fair enough.

M&S is unexpectedly good for beer. Especially using their 3 or 6 bottle deals. Adams brews some of their own brand stuff.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 28, 2017)

It's a bit depressing to see a can of beer selling for 30p short of national minimum hourly wage...(for over 25s) - my kid's on 7.05p and hour.

That said, if people can afford it and want to spend that, so be it.

Food and drink do play a role when people want to demonstrate examples of financial disparity, especially in a city like London where the gap between the richest and poorest people is the most extreme in the country.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 28, 2017)

Rushy said:


> I still struggle with more than £3 for a can in a shop. And I think that's a lot too. There are plenty of decent beers available in the £2 something bracket (but less and less). Its not so much a question of affordability but value. But value is subjective and if there is something that makes 330ml for £11.50 (on the shelf in London Beer Lab) seem worth it to someone, then fair enough.
> 
> M&S is unexpectedly good for beer. Especially using their 3 or 6 bottle deals. Adams brews some of their own brand stuff.



M&S price is very good.

Disco Fork Lift Truck is £1.80 a can in Sainsbury - a good Beaver Town Neck Oil rip off.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Food and drink do play a role when people want to demonstrate examples of financial disparity, especially in a city like London where the gap between the richest and poorest people is the most extreme in the country.


Brixton seems full of establishments that are almost rubbing people's faces in the wealth gap.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 28, 2017)

editor said:


> Brixton seems full of establishments that are almost rubbing people's faces in the wealth gap.



I sadly doubt they have the awareness to know that to be the case.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I sadly doubt they have the awareness to know that to be the case.


Of course not. They're too busy glugging down the cocktails and champers or nibbling on fromage to care! Down the hatch!


----------



## T & P (Nov 28, 2017)

The same could be said about all of us who enjoy drinking at virtually every licenced venue in Brixton. For the poorest people in the borough, a £3.75 pint is every last bit as out of reach as a £9 cocktail, so I doubt they make any distinctions tbh.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

T & P said:


> The same could be said about all of us who enjoy drinking at virtually every licenced venue in Brixton. For the poorest people in the borough, a £3.75 pint is every last bit as out of reach as a £9 cocktail, so I doubt they make any distinctions tbh.


I think there's a fair bit of difference between a pub serving a pint for £3.75 (or less) and a posh cocktail bar shunting out cocktails for around a tenner (or more).


----------



## teuchter (Nov 28, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Food and drink do play a role when people want to demonstrate examples of financial disparity, especially in a city like London where the gap between the richest and poorest people is the most extreme in the country.



And I'm certainly grateful to have this disparity pointed out to me every few posts, as - like most Londoners who aren't keyed in with all the latest information about prices in specialist craft beer bars - there's certainly no way that I'd notice it just by looking around me in everyday life, and I do have a bit of a goldfish memory anyway.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 28, 2017)

teuchter said:


> And I'm certainly grateful to have this disparity pointed out to me every few posts, as - like most Londoners who aren't keyed in with all the latest information about prices in specialist craft beer bars - there's certainly no way that I'd notice it just by looking around me in everyday life, and I do have a bit of a goldfish memory anyway.



There's seems a fair amount who post here who don't seem to see it, so good for you if you do, and I'm glad to help if you really don't.

Please note: My posts are not directed personally at you.


----------



## Twattor (Nov 28, 2017)

editor said:


> I think there's a fair bit of difference between a pub serving a pint for £3.75 (or less) and a posh cocktail bar shunting out cocktails for around a tenner (or more).


I agree with your point about the prevalence of cocktail venues.  I disagree with the focus over the last few pages on the price of the most expensive beers in each establishment - that's akin to judging any retailer by their highest priced product rather than by their range or value.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 28, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> There's seems a fair amount who post here who don't seem to see it, so good for you if you do, and I'm glad to help if you really don't.



I honestly don't see these posters. I rarely see anyone post anything that suggests they aren't aware of the wealth disparity in London. Feel free to give examples.

I do sometimes see people post things that, for example, show that they may be misinformed about how social housing is funded. In these cases it's good when others step in to explain where they are wrong.



Nanker Phelge said:


> Please note: My posts are not directed personally at you.



I know.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

Twattor said:


> I agree with your point about the prevalence of cocktail venues.  I disagree with the focus over the last few pages on the price of the most expensive beers in each establishment - that's akin to judging any retailer by their highest priced product rather than by their range or value.


I didn't bring up the £7.20 can and - as you know - my piece on the Sympathetic Ear didn't even mention it. I can't think where else I've been focusing on the most expensive beers of any other establishment.


----------



## Twattor (Nov 28, 2017)

editor said:


> I didn't bring up the £7.20 can and - as you know - my piece on the Sympathetic Ear didn't even mention it. I can't think where else I've been focusing on the most expensive beers of any other establishment.


not aimed at you personally.  A general comment on the discussions.  I felt your piece on the sympathetic ear pub was very fair.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

*scuse me while I vex loudly

Fuck's sake, I am fucking fed up with cars, cycles and, in particular, cunts on motorbikes who drive through pedestrian crossings when the lights are red. Just narrowly avoided two wankers on motorbikes who weaved through crossing pedestrians after deciding that the lights don't apply to them. The fuckers.

*vex over


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 28, 2017)

teuchter said:


> IFeel free to give examples.



Of all the things people on Urban reduce their point to, this is one I loathe most.

No. I don't collate examples for the benefit of a casual flit among strangers.


----------



## blameless77 (Nov 28, 2017)

Winot said:


> Kids can spend a whole day swimming for something like £2. And soft play was cheaper than anywhere else (when mine were younger - haven’t been for a while).


Yes - but they can’t do canoeing, rock climbing, badminton, etc - all of that is off the menu.


----------



## blameless77 (Nov 28, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> My problem with GLL/ Better and the Rec, gym in particular, is that Better go on about gym as though they have to compete with the likes of Virgin. Better see themselves as one of the big players in the thriving gym business.
> 
> Except they aren't. They have made there business getting access to publicly owned buildings. The risk of the Rec building still rests with the Council. GLL/ Better relationship with public authorities gives them a competitive edge over private gym providers. What I see is danger that GLL/ Better forget they aren't meant to be a private gym business.
> 
> They should just be an outsourced management agent for the Council. Nothing more or less.


Personally I think ‘Better’ make leisure centres worse, and deplore the stranglehold they’ve got over london leisure centres.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 28, 2017)

blameless77 said:


> Yes - but they can’t do canoeing, rock climbing, badminton, etc - all of that is off the menu.



Can you provide more detail on this please? (Cos I don't know....)


----------



## Winot (Nov 28, 2017)

blameless77 said:


> Yes - but they can’t do canoeing, rock climbing, badminton, etc - all of that is off the menu.



Kids can do rock climbing and badminton at the Rec. Climbing is decent value considering the size of the class. Don't know price of badminton.

I can't see how canoeing could ever be possible, unless you mean canoe polo and the pool is too busy for that to be an option I'd have thought.


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 28, 2017)

Winot said:


> Kids can do rock climbing and badminton at the Rec. Climbing is decent value considering the size of the class. Don't know price of badminton.
> 
> I can't see how canoeing could ever be possible, unless you mean canoe polo and the pool is too busy for that to be an option I'd have thought.



Not canoeing but the Brixton Wings charity offers rowing to local youngsters as well as music classes

Brixton Wings


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## Winot (Nov 28, 2017)

cool!


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 28, 2017)

editor said:


> Brixton seems full of establishments that are almost rubbing people's faces in the wealth gap.



Not just Brixton. But London and UK in general. 

In London people I work with often say London is just for rich now.

In my home town Plymouth Brexit vote on was in large part that that ordinary working class people have been shafted. As in London"regeneration" hasnt been for them. Devon and Cornwall have some of the same problems that inner city London has re rich people coming there. 

Whilst apparently everyone including PM May is really really concerned about those left behind knowing and really wanting change are different things.


----------



## tripadvisah (Nov 28, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> The poverty of your argument, for example


Or your lack of one.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2017)

tripadvisah said:


> Or your lack of one.


I'll post one, chuck. After you do, mind


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 28, 2017)

teuchter said:


> I honestly don't see these posters. I rarely see anyone post anything that suggests they aren't aware of the wealth disparity in London. Feel free to give examples.
> .



Awareness doesn't mean wanting change.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

If _kickability_ was a thing, this smug sign outside the wanky  Hot Yoga place on Coldharbour Lane would score very highly.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 28, 2017)

editor said:


> If _kickability_ was a thing, this smug sign outside the wanky  Hot Yoga place on Coldharbour Lane would score very highly.
> 
> View attachment 121607



The worst thing is that I used to feel once I'd got past the "hot" yoga place, walking to LJ, that was the last of it. Now the rest of that strip of shops on the way to LJ is going that way. The "Yard" for example. It doesn't seem to be doing that well. Hopefully it will close.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> The worst thing is that I used to feel once I'd got past the "hot" yoga place, walking to LJ, that was the last of it. Now the rest of that strip of shops on the way to LJ is going that way. The "Yard" for example. It doesn't seem to be doing that well. Hopefully it will close.


When I walked past on the weekend there was a girl with sparkly pants playing a ukulele in the window watched by a small craft-beer drinking crowd. It was, like, soooo Billyburg.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 28, 2017)

editor said:


> When I walked past on the weekend there was a girl with sparkly pants playing a ukulele in the window watched by a small craft-beer drinking crowd. It was, like, soooo Billyburg.



One of the reasons I like living in LJ now is that I don't see this kind of shit. I really hope it doesn't gradually creep up into LJ.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> One of the reasons I like living in LJ now is that I don't see this kind of shit. I really hope it doesn't gradually creep up into LJ.


Oh it's coming your way alright. You've already got those new LUXURY flats that have been built on the corner.


----------



## CH1 (Nov 29, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> The worst thing is that I used to feel once I'd got past the "hot" yoga place, walking to LJ, that was the last of it. Now the rest of that strip of shops on the way to LJ is going that way. The "Yard" for example. It doesn't seem to be doing that well. Hopefully it will close.


Maybe if he can hang on until "The Edge" gets populated he will survive.

Personally I can't see that any of the businesses in that "strip" are as obnoxious as the William Hills, which thankfully did close down - and took its' fixed odds betting terminals away with it.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 29, 2017)

CH1 said:


> Maybe if he can hang on until "The Edge" gets populated he will survive.
> 
> Personally I can't see that any of the businesses in that "strip" are as obnoxious as the William Hills, which thankfully did close down - and took its' fixed odds betting terminals away with it.



William Hills is no loss. I do miss the old barber. Had my hair cut by him for years. As did many from local area. Miss the chats we all had.  To be replaced by not one but two wanky overpriced hairdressers.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 29, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Of all the things people on Urban reduce their point to, this is one I loathe most.


Teuchter's Top T'internet Tips, no. 5633: Avoid requests for evidence by not posting assertions for which you are unwilling to provide any.


----------



## northeast (Nov 29, 2017)

The old Diamond Hire place on Acre Lane seems to have been given a temporary lease of life as a coffee / charity / yoga shop House of Hygge - The Chartwell Cancer Trust Wonder if they will have a kick-able sign


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

northeast said:


> The old Diamond Hire place on Acre Lane seems to have been given a temporary lease of life as a coffee / charity / yoga shop House of Hygge - The Chartwell Cancer Trust Wonder if they will have a kick-able sign


Highly unlikely, I'd suggest. I'll pop down and see if I can run a feature on the place seeing as they're doing good works.


----------



## GThomas (Nov 29, 2017)

Thought I’d post here too, my book getting published is a little piece of local news


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

GThomas said:


> Thought I’d post here too, my book getting published is a little piece of local news


Just the one thread in the Noticeboard is enough (these are our rules).


----------



## GThomas (Nov 29, 2017)

Sorry I am very new to this, lthought the only way to learn is to do it


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 29, 2017)

fucking chancers


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 29, 2017)

Met a really interesting woman who lives on Electric ave today. An old neighbour of colacubes (she says hi!).  She went to the docs fearing depression and anxiety as she was really suffering. Fortunately it wasn't depression, she has found out she is fine, having stayed elsewhere for a while, it proves her symptoms were all down to sleep deprivation. She was telling me some really sad tales about her neighbours health suffering from lack of sleep too, incl someone who has lived there for 50 years who's having to move out because of it. There are about 200 people living above Electric Ave and the noise is just unbearable. She isn't against nightlife in general - just the endless 'Magaluf' style party, lawless, uncontrolled, street noise, especially thurs - sun. 

Anyone who is similarly affected - or is worried about the noise or mess in central brixton, can to go along *Sleepless Brixton's drop in meeting at the Market House between 2 and 4pm Saturday December 2nd*. Theres some sort of mon 4th deadline (not sure what exactly) and they will be showing people how to put their concerns to Lambeth.  Also people can write to their Lambeth councillor or to local MP Helen Hayes.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> Met a really interesting woman who lives on Electric ave today. An old neighbour of colacubes (she says hi!).  She went to the docs fearing depression and anxiety as she was really suffering. Fortunately it wasn't depression, she has found out she is fine, having stayed elsewhere for a while, it proves her symptoms were all down to sleep deprivation. She was telling me some really sad tales about her neighbours health suffering from lack of sleep too, incl someone who has lived there for 50 years who's having to move out because of it. There are about 200 people living above Electric Ave and the noise is just unbearable. She isn't against nightlife in general - just the endless 'Magaluf' style party, lawless, uncontrolled, street noise, especially thurs - sun.
> 
> Anyone who is similarly affected - or is worried about the noise or mess in central brixton, can to go along *Sleepless Brixton's drop in meeting at the Market House between 2 and 4pm Saturday December 2nd*. Theres some sort of mon 4th deadline (not sure what exactly) and they will be showing people how to put their concerns to Lambeth.  Also people can write to their Lambeth councillor or to local MP Helen Hayes.


Have you got a link to that? I'll give it a plug on Buzz.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 29, 2017)

editor said:


> Have you got a link to that? I'll give it a plug on Buzz.


sorry - though I did give her my email, so if she sends me anything I'll post more. I understand there's a facebook group - but I don't do that stuff. Please do spread the word re saturday drop in and the more people who complain to lambeth the better.


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## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> sorry - though I did give her my email, so if she sends me anything I'll post more. I understand there's a facebook group - but I don't do that stuff. Please do spread the word re saturday drop in and the more people who complain to lambeth the better.


OK, will do. Could I use the words you've posted here too because that tells a good story about how people are suffering, ? I can credit it to whatever name you want.


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## colacubes (Nov 29, 2017)

editor said:


> Have you got a link to that? I'll give it a plug on Buzz.



I'll fw you the invite on facebook.  I can't make it but if you could plug it for them that would be ace


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## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

colacubes said:


> I'll fw you the invite on facebook.  I can't make it but if you could plug it for them that would be ace


I've just found it x


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## colacubes (Nov 29, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> Met a really interesting woman who lives on Electric ave today. An old neighbour of colacubes (she says hi!).  She went to the docs fearing depression and anxiety as she was really suffering. Fortunately it wasn't depression, she has found out she is fine, having stayed elsewhere for a while, it proves her symptoms were all down to sleep deprivation. She was telling me some really sad tales about her neighbours health suffering from lack of sleep too, incl someone who has lived there for 50 years who's having to move out because of it. There are about 200 people living above Electric Ave and the noise is just unbearable. She isn't against nightlife in general - just the endless 'Magaluf' style party, lawless, uncontrolled, street noise, especially thurs - sun.
> 
> Anyone who is similarly affected - or is worried about the noise or mess in central brixton, can to go along *Sleepless Brixton's drop in meeting at the Market House between 2 and 4pm Saturday December 2nd*. Theres some sort of mon 4th deadline (not sure what exactly) and they will be showing people how to put their concerns to Lambeth.  Also people can write to their Lambeth councillor or to local MP Helen Hayes.



It's proper shit and from what I've heard has got much worse in the last 2 years since we moved.

ETA - I don't think people realise how many people live there. It's honestly one of the best communities I've ever lived in in terms of having fabulous neighbours and a real sense of community spirit. It proper breaks my heart to hear how bad it has got.


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## colacubes (Nov 29, 2017)

editor said:


> I've just found it x


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## GThomas (Nov 29, 2017)

What happens when you report a post.....do you get any outcome or feedback ?


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## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

GThomas said:


> What happens when you report a post.....do you get any outcome or feedback ?


Just so you understand: this is a non profit site. No advertising of any kind is allowed (apart from the Noticeboard forum). Posters get very angry when they see people turning up just to plug their own products.


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## teuchter (Nov 29, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> Theres some sort of mon 4th deadline (not sure what exactly)



That might be to do with the Lambeth Local Plan review consultation deadline.

Lambeth Local Plan Review 2017 | Lambeth Council

The "Town Centres" survey is probably the most relevant for people to contribute to.


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## colacubes (Nov 29, 2017)

teuchter said:


> That might be to do with the Lambeth Local Plan review consultation deadline.
> 
> Lambeth Local Plan Review 2017 | Lambeth Council
> 
> The "Town Centres" survey is probably the most relevant for people to contribute to.



Yep that's exactly what it's referring to.


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## GThomas (Nov 29, 2017)

editor said:


> Just so you understand: this is a non profit site. No advertising of any kind is allowed (apart from the Noticeboard forum). Posters get very angry when they see people turning up just to plug their own products.


So are are you saying you will not do anything about that post, that the language used is acceptable? If this is the case l am very very angry, but as you will observe I am not using foul language or intimidation or any underlying threat to make my point. Maybe no action taken because a ‘loyal’ blogger wouldn’t tolerate this?
Please kindly advise thank you and by the way a first time local author living in BRIXTON is actually Brixton news and not just to ‘plug’ a product !!


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## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

GThomas said:


> So are are you saying you will not do anything about that post, that the language used is acceptable? If this is the case l am very very angry, but as you will observe I am not using foul language or intimidation or any underlying threat to make my point. Maybe no action taken because a ‘loyal’ blogger wouldn’t tolerate this?
> Please kindly advise thank you and by the way a first time local author living in BRIXTON is actually Brixton news and not just to ‘plug’ a product !!


And now that you're telling me how the board should be run means that we're going to fall out. Had you troubled to read the rules of this forum (which is a pre condition to posting) you would have seen this:


> N*o advertising.* We are not interested in hearing about your company/website/club/gig/song/product. This is a non-profit, community discussion forum, not a free advertising resource and offenders will be banned.
> You may advertise gigs/events/parties but you *must* obtain permission from a moderator first. No exceptions. Note that charity or free events are the most likely to be accepted. Next come those for which there is a big discount for Urban75 members. If you're trying to plug a straightforward commercial event, don't bother, no matter how many people you think might be interested.
> The Brixton Noticeboard forum is an exception to the above. Guidelines can be found in that forum.


There is no rule against swearing and I'm afraid this forum isn't going to change all its rules just because you've showed up to self promote your book.


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## GThomas (Nov 29, 2017)

So swearing and menace,  from your last post is accepted on your site and l am banned because l didn’t know the rules....another reason why people don’t try blogging. It seems from your post you are more re interested in closing debate and threatening banning people that don’t adhere to your own cosy ways....not interested in any news that doesn’t conform...I’ll stick to the one post on the notice board ....thank you for nurturing the interest in the blog.


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## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

GThomas said:


> So swearing and menace,  from your last post is accepted on your site and l am banned because l didn’t know the rules....another reason why people don’t try blogging. It seems from your post you are more re interested in closing debate and threatening banning people that don’t adhere to your own cosy ways....not interested in any news that doesn’t conform...I’ll stick to the one post on the notice board ....thank you for nurturing the interest in the blog.


What a strange reaction. No one is trying to close debate and no one has made any suggestion of banning you - I'm just patiently pointing out the rules which you seem so keen to ignore.

This board is not some cuddly, happy clappy site for people to endlessly promote their latest product for free: it's a grown up (mainly!) forum where people are free to express themselves using naughty words if they so desire. You've been given the opportunity to promote your book for free. What have you given back to the community here?


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 29, 2017)

Fuck all.


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## wurlycurly (Nov 29, 2017)




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## Rushy (Nov 29, 2017)

I hope the book is as entertaining.


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## alex_ (Nov 29, 2017)

GThomas said:


> So swearing and menace,  from your last post is accepted on your site and l am banned because l didn’t know the rules....another reason why people don’t try blogging. It seems from your post you are more re interested in closing debate and threatening banning people that don’t adhere to your own cosy ways....not interested in any news that doesn’t conform...I’ll stick to the one post on the notice board ....thank you for nurturing the interest in the blog.



Stop being a dick, editor even wished you well in your thread.

Alex


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## Angellic (Nov 29, 2017)

Rushy said:


> I hope the book is as entertaining.



Hope she isn't banned.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 29, 2017)

wurlycurly said:


>


Rude word


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## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

Angellic said:


> Hope she isn't banned.


There's never been any suggestion of banning her - she hasn't even been given a warning.


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 29, 2017)

editor said:


> Have you got a link to that? I'll give it a plug on Buzz.


Here's a little more info from the tired people at Sleepless Brixton:


> To confirm the meeting this Saturday
> ·		 Market House - upstairs
> ·		 443 Coldharbour Ln, Brixton, London SW9 8LN
> ·		 2-4.30pm Sat 2nd Dec – drop in anytime.
> ...


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## editor (Nov 29, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> Here's a little more info emailed to me:


Thanks - I'll get a post up first thing in the morning. Is it OK to post up what you said earlier? It gives me a bit more context for the article!?


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 29, 2017)

editor said:


> Thanks - I'll get a post up first thing in the morning. Is it OK to post up what you said earlier? It gives me a bit more context for the article!?


I hope I've got it right. I'll check with the woman I met and pm you.


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## editor (Nov 30, 2017)

Update: Lambeth Council set to pay a London Living Wage for out-sourced cleaning staff


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## editor (Nov 30, 2017)

Remember all that bollocks about the Small World Urbanism art stuff causing an obstruction on Beehive Place? Well how about this for a fucking obstruction - chairs and tables completely blocking the pavement and bollards now blocking the road.


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## Gramsci (Nov 30, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> Met a really interesting woman who lives on Electric ave today. An old neighbour of colacubes (she says hi!).  She went to the docs fearing depression and anxiety as she was really suffering. Fortunately it wasn't depression, she has found out she is fine, having stayed elsewhere for a while, it proves her symptoms were all down to sleep deprivation. She was telling me some really sad tales about her neighbours health suffering from lack of sleep too, incl someone who has lived there for 50 years who's having to move out because of it. There are about 200 people living above Electric Ave and the noise is just unbearable. She isn't against nightlife in general - just the endless 'Magaluf' style party, lawless, uncontrolled, street noise, especially thurs - sun.
> 
> Anyone who is similarly affected - or is worried about the noise or mess in central brixton, can to go along *Sleepless Brixton's drop in meeting at the Market House between 2 and 4pm Saturday December 2nd*. Theres some sort of mon 4th deadline (not sure what exactly) and they will be showing people how to put their concerns to Lambeth.  Also people can write to their Lambeth councillor or to local MP Helen Hayes.



Came back to Brixton about 10.30 last Saturday. Tube full of people coming to start there night out. Outside Brixton tube station entrance it was already full on party mode. Loud music with people drinking and dancing on the pavement. I thought this is just the start for local residents.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Dec 1, 2017)

Does people having a night out and a general good time, in a major international city such as London, slap bang at the peak of a Saturday night, shock or upset you?


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## Rushy (Dec 1, 2017)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Does people having a night out and a general good time, in a major international city such as London, slap bang at the peak of a Saturday night, shock or upset you?


I understand your point. It is probably the most obvious time at which Brixton is likely to be busy.

But can you not understand locals resenting their immediate home being actively turned into a major entertainment destination for the rest of London and beyond, sweet bugger all control or mitigation from their council?

You do sometimes seem to argue from the position that London is just one big party party party. It's easy to forget about the millions of people living pretty normal lives and dismiss them as party poopers when they say it is too much.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 1, 2017)

Twattor said:


> Brought up on Adnams, whose horses pulled their last dray 10 years ago, and whilst i'll still take a pint of Adnams Bitter or Woodforde's Wherry above any others it is becoming increasingly difficult to find well kept cask ales in Brixton - people just don't have the skills any more in this age of dead nitro beers.  I'm finding i'm moving more to keg beers simply because staff can't fuck them up.



Some pubs carry the bottle-conditioned brethren to cask ales, but sadly a lot of bar staff are berks at handling the bottles too.  Fucking White Shield in the chiller!


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 1, 2017)

Twattor said:


> Brought up on Adnams, whose horses pulled their last dray 10 years ago, and whilst i'll still take a pint of Adnams Bitter or Woodforde's Wherry above any others it is becoming increasingly difficult to find well kept cask ales in Brixton - people just don't have the skills any more in this age of dead nitro beers.  I'm finding i'm moving more to keg beers simply because staff can't fuck them up.



It was only a decade ago that Youngs ceased brewing in Wandsworth.  Used to love Youngs Ordinary, but wouldn't give a fig for it now.  Doesn't taste the same, despite what the brewery claims.


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## editor (Dec 1, 2017)

Thread continues here : Brixton news, rumours and general chat - December 2017


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