# Birmingham Bin Strike//Care Workers news and discussion



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

By posing as a community-led effort. If they cared about the community then surely they should be supporting members of it who are on strike rather than aiding the council's attack on their wages? 

These people are cleaning up their own streets after the bins strike


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## cybershot (Aug 5, 2017)

Small Heath and it's surrounding areas is a pig sty every day of the week regardless of the bin men being on strike. Hopefully these community members will actually encourage other members in those areas to actually give a bit more of a shit of the area they live in.

As for the bin men, whilst I am on their side, they haven't been helping themselves with their lazy approach when they do actually get round to you. Plenty of videos of them doing things like picking up one bag from a section of bins. I even watched them pick just one bag out of my wheeley bin and leave the rest in there.

Thankfully they have now been twice this week, and even finally took the recycling.

The councils approach to it all has been pretty piss poor, and looks like they refuse to budge. I know they put a so called jobs fair on recently for those at risk of losing their jobs to find alternative positions, but that just seemed to add to the war of words.

Hopefully it all comes to an end soon enough. Personally I think the binmen should have made more of an effort to sabotage the commonwealth games bid by leaving areas that would be highly used for it in a shit state so photos and any visitors would have thought the city was a right shit tip.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

What about the scabbing though? I know rubbish everywhere isn't pleasant but scabbing isn't acceptable. Why aren't they supporting the strikers?


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## cybershot (Aug 5, 2017)

You'd have to ask them that.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

They don't post here afaik. What's your view on it?


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## cybershot (Aug 5, 2017)

They shouldn't be scabbing, but then, this is from the Birmingham Mail. They will sensationalise a duck in a pond if they have to and it's an easy topic for them to get clicks/buys.


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## purenarcotic (Aug 5, 2017)

They were interviewed on local news and said they supported the bin men so I can only assume they don't realise this is scabbing.


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## Casually Red (Aug 5, 2017)

I'm not sure this can be classed as scab action , not after 5 weeks of refuse building up. It's unpaid for a start and the criticism seems directed at the council and not the strikers . If there's an NHS strike and you administer first aid or CPR that's not scabbing either . Ambulance strike and you drive a relative or neighbour to hospital ? 
The streets and entries are bound to be riven with rats and vermin at this point . Stench and flies everywhere, middle of summer . The public good and welfare needs to be considered too . That's not even remotely a criticism of the strike or strikers but communities have a right to remove potential or actual hazards from their midst as well . They're entitled to quality of life . Rights need to be balanced in some instances .

A better move would have been to dump it at council hq , or the councillors gardens . But I still wouldn't class this as scabbing . Even though it does mitigate the effects of strike action .


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

On their FB page they claim the strike has nothing to do with them, they're just clearing up rubbish that's a 'hazard'; they've made no statement in support of those on strike.


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## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2017)

I can't see how it's scabbing. What are people supposed to do with five weeks worth of rubbish out front?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 5, 2017)

Ours was finally cleared the other day, after 5 weeks.

I support them fully, but I have to admit even my patience was wearing thin having to walk past this* to get to my front door, it utterly stank and had swarms of maggots/flies everywhere.





*this was taken after 3 and a bit weeks, it got a _lot_ worse...


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> I'm not sure this can be classed as scab action , not after 5 weeks of refuse building up. It's unpaid for a start and the criticism seems directed at the council and not the strikers . If there's an NHS strike and you administer first aid or CPR that's not scabbing either . Ambulance strike and you drive a relative or neighbour to hospital ?
> The streets and entries are bound to be riven with rats and vermin at this point . Stench and flies everywhere, middle of summer . The public good and welfare needs to be considered too . That's not even remotely a criticism of the strike or strikers but communities have a right to remove potential or actual hazards from their midst as well . They're entitled to quality of life . Rights need to be balanced in some instances .
> 
> A better move would have been to dump it at council hq , or the councillors gardens . But I still wouldn't class this as scabbing . Even though it does mitigate the effects of strike action .



It's unpaid but being funded by donations from local private businesses. Don't fall for the shit about it being community led.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> I can't see how it's scabbing. What are people supposed to with five weeks worth of rubbish out front?



Apply pressure to the council rather than take the pressure off them, maybe?


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 5, 2017)

Me and my old man took ours and our neighbours rubbish to the tip the other day. Didn't take clive over the road's though because he's a cunt. Don't know if this is scabbing or not.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 5, 2017)

don't tell clive i said this


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## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Apply pressure to the council rather than take the pressure off them, maybe?



There's got to be a synthesis were this could happen. Have the bin unions asked residents to put pressure on the council in any way?


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> There's got to be a synthesis were this could happen. Have the bin unions asked residents to put pressure on the council in any way?



We're so fucked working class solidarity doesn't happen as standard anymore. The scabs may be business owners for all I know but some of the comments here are surprising, declaring it not a scab action.


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## purenarcotic (Aug 5, 2017)

I agree it's a scab action but given the lack of awareness around these things I could appreciate they might not realise that. I didn't realise there was a FB page for them and I notice there's been a fair few comments pointing out its scab action and they've carried on so fuck em.


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## Borp (Aug 5, 2017)

Isn't this a good thing? The rubbish gets collected but the strike still goes ahead. It doesn't undermine the strike that some people are picking up the rubbish. The council are still forced to work towards a lobg term solution.


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## Casually Red (Aug 5, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> We're so fucked working class solidarity doesn't happen as standard anymore. The scabs may be business owners for all I know but some of the comments here are surprising, declaring it not a scab action.



The reason rubbish stinks to humans is because harmful bacteria give off an odour that warns us to stay away from it . Flies and vermin living among this rubbish spread harmful bacteria . That can make us ill . Vermin infestations means there's Weils disease all over the place too . And the potential for rat bites and the like . Which if you've got small kids running about the place will be a real worry . It's one thing to be inconvenienced , even massively so, by strike action . Another thing to face potential harm .

Has there been any reaction to this move from the striking workers themselves ? Personally I'd wait for that before I'd start labelling people scabs .


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

Borp said:


> Isn't this a good thing? The rubbish gets collected but the strike still goes ahead. It doesn't undermine the strike that some people are picking up the rubbish. The council are still forced to work towards a lobg term solution.



Fucking hell!  

The whole point of strike action is the only power the WC have is to collectively withdraw their labour in a dispute. If do gooders who aren't having their wages and conditions attacked decide to do the work of those on strike, what does that do to the collective strength? 
That's why it's hated by genuine working class progressives.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> The reason rubbish stinks to humans is because harmful bacteria give off an odour that warns us to stay away from it . Flies and vermin living among this rubbish spread harmful bacteria . That can make us ill . Vermin infestations means there's Weils disease all over the place too . And the potential for rat bites and the like . Which if you've got small kids running about the place will be a real worry . It's one thing to be inconvenienced , even massively so, by strike action . Another thing to face potential harm .
> 
> Has there been any reaction to this move from the striking workers themselves ? Personally I'd wait for that before I'd start labelling people scabs .



Go try and wind someone else up you plastic cunt.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> The reason rubbish stinks to humans is because harmful bacteria give off an odour that warns us to stay away from it . Flies and vermin living among this rubbish spread harmful bacteria . That can make us ill . Vermin infestations means there's Weils disease all over the place too . And the potential for rat bites and the like . Which if you've got small kids running about the place will be a real worry . It's one thing to be inconvenienced , even massively so, by strike action . Another thing to face potential harm .
> 
> Has there been any reaction to this move from the striking workers themselves ? Personally I'd wait for that before I'd start labelling people scabs .



This was the view South of the border in 2014.


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## Casually Red (Aug 5, 2017)

And what's the view of those on strike in this dispute ? Simple question . I'll happily take it on board .


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> And what's the view of those on strike in this dispute ? Simple question . I'll happily take it on board .



Without looking, I reckon they're chuffed people are scabbing.


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

I didn't ask what you reckoned . I asked what is the view of the organised labour force involved in this dispute . If they regard it as scab action I'm sure they're well fit to identify and condemn it as such and there'll be a statement in due course .


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 6, 2017)

The best option would be for local residents to organise together to move all their rubbish outside the council offices and make a statement saying they support the strike.


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## Borp (Aug 6, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Fucking hell!
> 
> The whole point of strike action is the only power the WC have is to collectively withdraw their labour in a dispute. If do gooders who aren't having their wages and conditions attacked decide to do the work of those on strike, what does that do to the collective strength?
> That's why it's hated by genuine working class progressives.



I hear you. I put it out as a question. 

Actually I like fozzie bear's suggestion. Pick up the rubbish and put it outside the council office.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> I didn't ask what you reckoned . I asked what is the view of the organised labour force involved in this dispute . If they regard it as scab action I'm sure they're well fit to identify and condemn it as such and there'll be a statement in due course .



If this is the bar you're setting for opinion then we can be assured that you won't be dipping your beak into affairs such as Ukraine, without speaking to those involved first.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> The best option would be for local residents to organise together to move all their rubbish outside the council offices and make a statement saying they support the strike.



Agree mate.


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If this is the bar you're setting for opinion then we can be assured that you won't be dipping your beak into affairs such as Ukraine, without speaking to those involved first.



 If you don't have a clue what the strikers themselves are saying about it it's not a reflection on your credentials . It doesn't make you plastic or anything so theres no need for such defensiveness . However it's better to just admit that gracefully rather than drag Ukraine into the dispute as well . Wouldn't want Birmingham squaring up against Donbass or anything like that .

If the union regards it as scab action or strike breaking I'm perfectly happy to align with their view .


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Borp said:


> Actually I like fozzie bear's suggestion. Pick up the rubbish and put it outside the council office.



I said it first

'Bearded Broz' Scab Birmingham Bin Strike

Just saying like


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> If you don't have a clue what the strikers themselves are saying about it it's not a reflection on your credentials . It doesn't make you plastic or anything so theres no need for such defensiveness . However it's better to just admit that gracefully rather than drag Ukraine into the dispute as well . Wouldn't want Birmingham squaring up against Donbass or anything like that .
> 
> If the union regards it as scab action or strike breaking I'm perfectly happy to align with their view .



If I'm not allowed a view on this as part of the Labour Movement, then why are you afforded views on Sinn Fein, if not a member?


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## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

It's interesting that some don't see this as scabbing because a) they're volunteers, and b) rubbish is horrid.

Whether they're paid our not is irrelevant. They're doing the work that the strikers aren't and that can only weaken the hand of the workforce as the pressure on the employer to resolve the situation is eased. If anything, the fact that they're doing it for free is surely even worse.

Judging whether scabbing is acceptable by the adverse affects that any particular strike might have on the public seems faintly ridiculous. All industrial action could be said to cause some form of inconvenience and it should be a given that all workers have the same rights to collective bargaining with strike action as the last resort. The very fact that a work stoppage by a particular occupation would result in chaos should go some way to demonstrating how valued those workers are.


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## bi0boy (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> It's interesting that some don't see this as scabbing because a) they're volunteers, and b) rubbish is horrid.



No it's because people have a right to look after their own shit. During the miners strike people burnt wood to keep warm, the scabbing cunts. Miners even organised the collection and distribution of wood to households, the bastards. They really should have tried to ensure more people froze to death, that would have been proper solidarity.



> The very fact that a work stoppage by a particular occupation would result in chaos should go some way to demonstrating how valued those workers are.



Total bollocks, it just demonstrates the effect that job happens to have on people's daily lives. Did you ever hear about a medical research technician's strike? Pretty sure no one would give any fucks about the lack of curing cancer for a few days.


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## bi0boy (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> I'm not sure this can be classed as scab action , not after 5 weeks of refuse building up. It's unpaid for a start and the criticism seems directed at the council and not the strikers . If there's an NHS strike and you administer first aid or CPR that's not scabbing either . Ambulance strike and you drive a relative or neighbour to hospital ?



No one has answered this I see. Apparently striking requires total solidarity from the working class to the point of people refraining from evacuating burning buildings during a firefighters strike to demonstrate how important firefighting is.


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## Duncan2 (Aug 6, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> No one has answered this I see. Apparently striking requires total solidarity from the working class to the point of people refraining from evacuating burning buildings during a firefighters strike to demonstrate how important firefighting is.


I would be interested to see some footage of the locals which indicates where they actually stand on the merits/demerits of this particular strike.I was a bit surprised, in what I did see that, the Bros didn't refer to the strikers or their cause at all?


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## Ptolemy (Aug 6, 2017)

Disappointed that "Bearded Broz" weren't a gang of Tito lookalikes wearing beards.


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## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> No it's because people have a right to look after their own shit. During the miners strike people burnt wood to keep warm, the scabbing cunts. Miners even organised the collection and distribution of wood to households, the bastards. They really should have tried to ensure more people froze to death, that would have been proper solidarity.



If this is your killer analogy you need more practice. There were scabs during the miners' strike. They mined coal. That's what scabs do: the work of the strikers. What delivering or burning firewood (or evacuating a burning building, for that matter) has to do with anything is anyone's guess. You can appeal to extremes if that's your bag but it may be more helpful if you stick to talking about the bin dispute. And for future reference and the well-being of anyone unfortunate enough to have an accident in your or Casually Red's presence; first aid isn't the preserve of the NHS. The clue is in the name.



> Total bollocks, it just demonstrates the effect that job happens to have on people's daily lives. Did you ever hear about a medical research technician's strike? Pretty sure no one would give any fucks about the lack of curing cancer for a few days.



I don't really understand what your point is here. I suspect there isn't one.


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## crossthebreeze (Aug 6, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> No it's because people have a right to look after their own shit. During the miners strike people burnt wood to keep warm, the scabbing cunts. Miners even organised the collection and distribution of wood to households, the bastards. They really should have tried to ensure more people froze to death, that would have been proper solidarity.
> 
> 
> 
> Total bollocks, it just demonstrates the effect that job happens to have on people's daily lives. Did you ever hear about a medical research technician's strike? Pretty sure no one would give any fucks about the lack of curing cancer for a few days.


There's already been a suggestion of how this could have been done in a way that supports the strike - take it to the council chambers en masse, or some other important site, leave it there and release a statement supporting the strike.  

Also its one thing "looking after your own shit" ie taking your own and your immediate neighbours rubbish to the tip on your own initiative - while i think that does undermine some of the potential bargaining power of the strikers by making the clean-up less of a ever-growing problem for the council which motivates them to negotiate an end to the strike, I don't think its scabbing per se, and can understand that people don't want to live in shit.  Actually if lots of people turn up to the refuse sites in cars and jam up that system, it puts pressure on the council in another way - although it might give ideas to the austerity mongers (eg why have refuse collections at all if people are willing to deliver their own rubbish to the tip!).   

Its totally another thing getting together a big group of volunteers, getting donations from local businesses for gloves, hi vis, refreshments, petrol, etc and use of several commercial vehicles, arranging access to the tips with the council (because I don't think there's many councils that would usually let you turn up in a commercial vehicle multiple times without paying commercial rates) - which may well mean working alongside blacklegs and (with the way councils are nowadays) people that work for privatised contractors that certainly diminish the power of the strike even if they are not being used as scabs (and it may be that they are), and then putting out a press release and doing tv interviews, all without mentioning support for the strike.


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## bi0boy (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> If this is your killer analogy you need more practice. There were scabs during the miners' strike. They mined coal. That's what scabs do: the work of the strikers. What delivering or burning firewood (or evacuating a burning building, for that matter) has to do with anything is anyone's guess. You can appeal to extremes if that's your bag but it may be more helpful if you stick to talking about the bin dispute. And for future reference and the well-being of anyone unfortunate enough to have an accident in your or Casually Red's presence; first aid isn't the preserve of the NHS. The clue is in the name.



Since when was taking rubbish to the tip the exclusive preserve of council employees?


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## bi0boy (Aug 6, 2017)

crossthebreeze said:


> There's already been a suggestion of how this could have been done in a way that supports the strike - take it to the council chambers en masse, or some other important site, leave it there and release a statement supporting the strike.



That would be a criminal offence.



> Also its one thing "looking after your own shit" ie taking your own and your immediate neighbours rubbish to the tip on your own initiative - while i think that does undermine some of the potential bargaining power of the strikers by making the clean-up less of a ever-growing problem for the council which motivates them to negotiate an end to the strike, I don't think its scabbing per se, and can understand that people don't want to live in shit.  Actually if lots of people turn up to the refuse sites in cars and jam up that system, it puts pressure on the council in another way - although it might give ideas to the austerity mongers (eg why have refuse collections at all if people are willing to deliver their own rubbish to the tip!).
> 
> Its totally another thing getting together a big group of volunteers, getting donations from local businesses for gloves, hi vis, refreshments, petrol, etc and use of several commercial vehicles, arranging access to the tips with the council (because I don't think there's many councils that would usually let you turn up in a commercial vehicle multiple times without paying commercial rates) - which may well mean working alongside blacklegs and (with the way councils are nowadays) people that work for privatised contractors that certainly diminish the power of the strike even if they are not being used as scabs (and it may be that they are), and then putting out a press release and doing tv interviews, all without mentioning support for the strike.



If the bin collectors wanted the support of local people to put pressure on the council to end the strike, maybe they should have engaged with them rather than leaving them in a stinking pile of shit.


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## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 6, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> By posing as a community-led effort. If they cared about the community then surely they should be supporting members of it who are on strike rather than aiding the council's attack on their wages?
> 
> These people are cleaning up their own streets after the bins strike


Hi all
My names IMRAN from the bearded broz team. I've read all comments and thanks for discussing this here. We are a community team from Birmingham that was sick and tired of rubbish on our streets for the last five weeks. The stench, the rats, the maggots, the foxes everything is horrible. The kids have to go past this nasty stuff each day to school and now in holidays. So we came together to clean it up that's all. We are not a political party and nor do we get involved in any politics. What the council and bin men have going on is nothing to do with us. We are just cleaning out streets simple as that. Hope that helps clear up the matter www.beardedbroz.com


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)

Ah, it's the fault of the workers who are fighting to maintain their conditions and not the council who are attacking them. 

One has been interviewed by the Guardian.

Birmingham refuse workers hate to see rubbish piling up – but our strike is vital


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> It's interesting that some don't see this as scabbing because a) they're volunteers, and b) rubbish is horrid.
> 
> Whether they're paid our not is irrelevant. They're doing the work that the strikers aren't and that can only weaken the hand of the workforce as the pressure on the employer to resolve the situation is eased. If anything, the fact that they're doing it for free is surely even worse.
> 
> Judging whether scabbing is acceptable by the adverse affects that any particular strike might have on the public seems faintly ridiculous. All industrial action could be said to cause some form of inconvenience and it should be a given that all workers have the same rights to collective bargaining with strike action as the last resort. The very fact that a work stoppage by a particular occupation would result in chaos should go some way to demonstrating how valued those workers are.



As I  said in an earlier post this isn't just about inconvenience, public health is a real consideration after 5 weeks of work stoppage .

_. Vermin infestations means there's Weils disease all over the place too . And the potential for rat bites and the like . Which if you've got small kids running about the place will be a real worry . It's one thing to be inconvenienced , even massively so, by strike action . Another thing to face potential harm ._

Its summer, the kids are all off school . rich folks will be able to send their kids off somewhere . Working class kids will have the streets . I'd find it difficult to believe strikers would want kids, including their own to be facing a hazard . Which is why I'd wait and see what the union itself has to say before condemning anyone as a scab .


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> As I  said in an earlier post this isn't just about inconvenience, public health is a real consideration after 5 weeks of work stoppage .
> 
> _. Vermin infestations means there's Weils disease all over the place too . And the potential for rat bites and the like . Which if you've got small kids running about the place will be a real worry . It's one thing to be inconvenienced , even massively so, by strike action . Another thing to face potential harm ._
> 
> Its summer, the kids are all off school . rich folks will be able to send their kids off somewhere . Working class kids will have the streets . I'd find it difficult to believe strikers would want kids, including their own to be facing a hazard . Which is why I'd wait and see what the union itself has to say before condemning anyone as a scab .



Why the union? I've linked to an article where one of the striking workers has been interviewed.


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

crossthebreeze said:


> Its totally another thing getting together a big group of volunteers, getting donations from local businesses for gloves, hi vis, refreshments, petrol, etc and use of several commercial vehicles, arranging access to the tips with the council (because I don't think there's many councils that would usually let you turn up in a commercial vehicle multiple times without paying commercial rates) - which may well mean working alongside blacklegs and (with the way councils are nowadays) people that work for privatised contractors that certainly diminish the power of the strike even if they are not being used as scabs (and it may be that they are), and then putting out a press release and doing tv interviews, all without mentioning support for the strike.



If local businesses are paying through the nose on top of their rates in order to get their rubbish shifted then it's still putting pressure on the council . And those are the people who tend to be in more regular contact with the council with the ability to put pressure on . They're now out of pocket and less than pleased I'd assume .

I seem to be the only person here talking about the public health issues involved . Possibly because I've worked in a number of hospitals . As a union member . and without a doubt when it comes to getting sick it's the working class who are , without fail, first in the queue . There's a reason why nurses , ambulance drivers and firemen rarely go on strike . And that's because it can do real harm to others if they do as opposed to mere inconvenience and hardship . 

Does anyone here even recognise there's a public health issue involved after 5 weeks During the school summer holidays ? If so would they recognise there are potentially considerations involved that don't arise in instances of other industrial disputes ? That the union itself possibly doesn't want harm done , as opposed to inconvenience ? 

That's why I'd wait to hear what the union has to say .


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Why the union? I've linked to an article where one of the striking workers has been interviewed.



Why the union ? Because the union are the collective of labour which has been withdrawn in this stoppage, and therefore pretty relevant .

I don't think anyone on here either doesn't recognise the necessity for the strike or would want anything other than the strikers to win their fight .
Your article doesn't even remotely mention the clean up, which is the issue at hand . There is no mention of it whatsoever . Only an explanation as to why they're on strike .  Therefore it has no bearing on whether the strikers consider this to be scabbing or not . Hence why I think it'd be better to wait and see what the strikers themselves say about the clean up rather than rush to immediate judgement .


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)




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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> If this is your killer analogy you need more practice. There were scabs during the miners' strike. They mined coal. That's what scabs do: the work of the strikers. What delivering or burning firewood (or evacuating a burning building, for that matter) has to do with anything is anyone's guess. You can appeal to extremes if that's your bag but it may be more helpful if you stick to talking about the bin dispute. And for future reference and the well-being of anyone unfortunate enough to have an accident in your or Casually Red's presence; first aid isn't the preserve of the NHS. The clue is in the name.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really understand what your point is here. I suspect there isn't one.



During hospital based strikes and work to rule there's also essential cover laid on .  Nobody wants to see ordinary people suffer real harm . People are still doing the work of strikers , they aren't scabs . When public health and welfare is a consideration then the situation requires some nuance and balance . Unions recognise that .

This isn't an industrial dispute, it's not a factory . Nobodies producing a product or a commodity . It's a public service that directly impacts on public health and safety thats on strike . People can suffer adverse health affects from living in a rat infested rubbish tip . Which is what the streets have become after 5 weeks of stoppage .

Knowing from experience that there are previous situations  and instances were strikers have to balance their work stoppage against harm to the public and make certain allowances is why I'd wait to hear what the union has to say before I'd start labelling anyone a scab .

I agree fully with other posters that it would have been much better had the people doing the clean up issued a statement in support of the strikers . However it's also the case they haven't issued one criticising the strikers either . It's perfectly obvious that community division on the issue will only play into the hands of the council . Therefore stoking it up without waiting to hear the unions position on the clean up doesn't strike me as very helpful .

That's why I'd wait to hear what the unions saying before I start chucking Internet bricks .


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> That would be a criminal offence.
> 
> 
> .



I don't think it would . It'd be a civil matter . It's littering after all .


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> Hi all
> My names IMRAN from the bearded broz team. I've read all comments and thanks for discussing this here. We are a community team from Birmingham that was sick and tired of rubbish on our streets for the last five weeks. The stench, the rats, the maggots, the foxes everything is horrible. The kids have to go past this nasty stuff each day to school and now in holidays. So we came together to clean it up that's all. We are not a political party and nor do we get involved in any politics. What the council and bin men have going on is nothing to do with us. We are just cleaning out streets simple as that. Hope that helps clear up the matter www.beardedbroz.com



I missed this earlier. It might have got temporarily moderated for containing a link. 

You've had funding from private businesses who may well have a political incentive to help break the strike. You've also been given use of vehicles of a private refuse company who may well have their eye on taking up work from the redundancies.


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## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> This isn't an industrial dispute, it's not a factory . Nobodies producing a product or a commodity.



It really is an industrial dispute. There doesn't need to be a factory or a product for an industrial dispute to take place. You've heard of the service industry I presume?


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> It really is an industrial dispute. There doesn't need to be a factory or a product for an industrial dispute to take place. You've heard of the service industry I presume?



You're correct . My terminology was off . Poor choice of words .


----------



## Celyn (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> I don't think it would . It'd be a civil matter . It's littering after all .



"Now it all started two Thanksgivings ago... "


----------



## 1927 (Aug 6, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What about the scabbing though? I know rubbish everywhere isn't pleasant but scabbing isn't acceptable. Why aren't they supporting the strikers?


live next to a pile of rotting rubbish with the risk of disease and sick kids or support strike, its a toughie


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)

1927 said:


> live next to a pile of rotting rubbish with the risk of disease and sick kids or support strike, its a toughie



There's nothing tough about it. The council provoked the dispute by attacking workers wages and conditions. Put pressure on them to back off and the rubbish will be collected again.


----------



## 1927 (Aug 6, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There's nothing tough about it. The council provoked the dispute by attacking workers wages and conditions. Put pressure on them to back off and the rubbish will be collected again.


and in the meantime live next to a pile of stinking rubbish and worry about the risk to your kids, no thanks.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 6, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> Hi all
> My names IMRAN from the bearded broz team. I've read all comments and thanks for discussing this here. We are a community team from Birmingham that was sick and tired of rubbish on our streets for the last five weeks. The stench, the rats, the maggots, the foxes everything is horrible. The kids have to go past this nasty stuff each day to school and now in holidays. So we came together to clean it up that's all. We are not a political party and nor do we get involved in any politics. What the council and bin men have going on is nothing to do with us. We are just cleaning out streets simple as that. Hope that helps clear up the matter www.beardedbroz.com



Can you dump it outside council house on Victoria Sq next time thou!  Cheers.


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

Anyone would think that a few piles of bin bags were radioactive the way some people are going on. Tell your kids not to eat the stuff.  They'll be fine.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Kids are unlikely to eat it . Unfortunately telling vermin not to eat it is another matter . Rats and kids in close proximity isn't good at all . Rats spread disease ...especially weils...and can bite kids. The schools are off . Kids are in the streets all day long . Kids being kids also poke around in stuff .  Infestations of flies also spread harmful bacteria . They get on your fresh food just as happily as  they settle on rotting meat, rancid egg waste , rat piss and rat shit . Theyre happy to go back and forth, all day long . Foxes and rats ..even household dogs and cats ..will have torn many of these bags open . After 5 weeks there's a real public health issue to consider .

That's why I'd be loath to automatically accuse anyone of being a scab without waiting to hear the unions take on it first . To me it looks a little more complicated . 

Eta

I do note though people are saying a private company have donated a refuse truck . Without doubt that's a cause for concern . But still I'd prefer to hear the strikers themselves . Think it's wiser .


----------



## Nice one (Aug 6, 2017)

1927 said:


> live next to a pile of rotting rubbish with the risk of disease and sick kids or support strike, its a toughie



if only the grave diggers would go on strike


----------



## Nice one (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Kids are unlikely to eat it . Unfortunately telling vermin not to eat it is another matter . Rats and kids in close proximity isn't good at all . Rats spread disease ...especially weils...and can bite kids. The schools are off . Kids are in the streets all day long . Kids being kids also poke around in stuff .  Infestations of flies also spread harmful bacteria . They get on your fresh food just as happily as  they settle on rotting meat, rancid egg waste , rat piss and rat shit . Theyre happy to go back and forth, all day long . Foxes and rats ..even household dogs and cats ..will have torn many of these bags open . After 5 weeks there's a real public health issue to consider .
> 
> That's why I'd be loath to automatically accuse anyone of being a scab without waiting to hear the unions take on it first . To me it looks a little more complicated .
> 
> ...



you know don't you the council got in their 'partners' to shift the rubbish, but it proved too costly. Be interesting to know who instigated these volunteers, someone who read up on their 1926 general strike history perhaps?


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

Does anyone have any pictures of these disease-mountains, riddled with sabre-toothed, baby-eating rats and needle-wielding foxes? I'm intrigued to see them. I'm picturing the Great Pyramids of Giza except they're constructed entirely from shit and maggots with a river of piss, pus and liquefied evil running between them.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just a few bin bags of sun-ripened rubbish.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> Does anyone have any pictures of these disease-mountains, riddled with sabre-toothed, baby-eating rats and needle-wielding foxes? I'm intrigued to see them. I'm picturing the Great Pyramids of Giza except they're constructed entirely from shit and maggots with a river of piss, pus and liquefied evil running between them.
> 
> Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just a few bin bags of sun-ripened rubbish.


I posted a pic of the mountain outside our house earlier in the thread. That was after theee weeks, it got to almost twice that size. It utterly stank, and had leaking bags, piles of maggots and clouds of flies. We had to pick our way through it to get to the path that leads to our house, it was grim.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 6, 2017)

From another angle, again this was after 3 weeks, it was over 5 weeks before it all went so both piles ended up much larger and smellier


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

That does indeed look like a minor inconvenience. Worth becoming a scab over? Hardly.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)

Community spirit


----------



## Dowie (Aug 6, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> I agree it's a scab action but given the lack of awareness around these things I could appreciate they might not realise that. I didn't realise there was a FB page for them and I notice there's been a fair few comments pointing out its scab action and they've carried on so fuck em.



Is it scabbing if a resident takes their own rubbish to the council tip or just if these volunteers do it in a more organised manner? I mean technically the residents could leave it all festering in piles outside their houses but after a while surely they can dispose of some of it and still have pressure applied to the council?


----------



## 1927 (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> Does anyone have any pictures of these disease-mountains, riddled with sabre-toothed, baby-eating rats and needle-wielding foxes? I'm intrigued to see them. I'm picturing the Great Pyramids of Giza except they're constructed entirely from shit and maggots with a river of piss, pus and liquefied evil running between them.
> 
> Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just a few bin bags of sun-ripened rubbish.


Oh please.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Nice one said:


> you know don't you the council got in their 'partners' to shift the rubbish, but it proved too costly. Be interesting to know who instigated these volunteers, someone who read up on their 1926 general strike history perhaps?



I don't really think we are into black shirted razor gang territory just yet .

I've been in industrial action were strictly speaking it was a breach of work to rule for meals to be physically given to patients , jugs of water left at besides..stuff like that . The action taken had to be balanced against welfare and health of patients . The union made allowances for what was inconvenient and annoying and what was intolerable/unsafe for the public . Management taking patients on trolleys for operations and treatment weren't in anyway hindered , abused or considered scabs either . Even though all this mitigated against the effects of the action and took pressure off them . There are situations that arise sometimes were a balance needs to be struck .
That's why I'd wait to hear the unions take before I'd take a position as to whether or not this constituted scabbing . 

A strike against an elected council requires public support . The union will have to weigh up the pros and cons of alienating public support . Appearing overly inflexible in a situation were ordinary people are facing hazards on their doorstep is a potential route to alienating the public . I doubt any union wants to be seen as having a position of " we don't care if you get sick and there are rats and flies everywhere " . PR and public goodwill is very important in a dispute like this too . It's not a companies profits and shareholders that are bearing the brunt of this , it's the general public . Primarily the working class . It's very important not to alienate or divide that constituency whether you're a striker or a councillor .

It's definitely wise to scrutinise this situation closely and be wary but a knee jerk can prove counter productive . Worth too bearing in mind it's local businessmen who are shouldering the expense of this clean up. They generally squeal louder than any rat when they're out of pocket . The strike still makes an impact .
I'm sure that's what the union are weighing up so that's why I'd wait to hear their position . If they say scab then scab it is .


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

1927 said:


> Oh please.


Care to elaborate?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> That does indeed look like a minor inconvenience. Worth becoming a scab over? Hardly.


Well, aren't you a tiresome prick. Worrying that your inquisitive 2 year old is about to pick up a fistful of rotting maggot infested rubbish isn't really a minor inconvenience.

I support the strike. But I can see why some people ran out of patience and took matters into their own hands. Stop seeing the world in such binary terms.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 6, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> From another angle, again this was after 3 weeks, it was over 5 weeks before it all went so both piles ended up much larger and smellier
> 
> View attachment 112902



Hae you guys not been issued with wheeley bins yet?


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Stop seeing the world in such binary terms.



Gosh, a true Urbanite. Thinks the end times have arrived because the bin collection is a couple of weeks late, gives it the large one and then squirts out an ossified Urban idiom. Try harder, petal. Some people are facing real hardships with the prospect of a real drop in wages.
Fucking gimp.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 6, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Hae you guys not been issued with wheeley bins yet?


 If they have then they're probably full.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> That does indeed look like a minor inconvenience. Worth becoming a scab over? Hardly.



There's some video here . Not nice . According to this Birmingham was the rat infestation capital of Britain back in 2015 . And it's clear from the pictures the strikers themselves are making a direct link between the removal of services and rat infestations . It's more than an inconvenience I'm afraid . That's definite hazard territory .

Experts warn huge RAT invasion imminent if bins strike continues

Common sense would tell you rubbish piles left for weeks will attract the bastards in droves .


----------



## NoXion (Aug 6, 2017)

I would say that whether or not the Broz are scabs depends on how they really came about, where they got their equipment from, and how their costs are being met. Given that their trucks at least were donated by some refuse company, the signs are not looking good.


----------



## Athos (Aug 6, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> Hi all
> My names IMRAN from the bearded broz team. I've read all comments and thanks for discussing this here. We are a community team from Birmingham that was sick and tired of rubbish on our streets for the last five weeks. The stench, the rats, the maggots, the foxes everything is horrible. The kids have to go past this nasty stuff each day to school and now in holidays. So we came together to clean it up that's all. We are not a political party and nor do we get involved in any politics. What the council and bin men have going on is nothing to do with us. We are just cleaning out streets simple as that. Hope that helps clear up the matter www.beardedbroz.com



Whilst I appreciate that your hearts might be in the right place, and can understand your frustration about mounting rubbish, what you're doing - strike breaking - is political, regardless of whether or not that's your intention.  And, you say that the dispute is nothing to do with you, but you've chosen to undermine one side - the wokers.  It's really not just "simple as that", I'm afraid.  Raher than scabbing, you shuld be putting your efforts into resolving the issue to the bin men's benefit, by putting pressure on the council.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> There's some video here . Not nice . According to this Birmingham was the rat infestation capital of Britain back in 2015 . And it's clear from the pictures the strikers themselves are making a direct link between the removal of services and rat infestations . It's more than an inconvenience I'm afraid . That's definite hazard territory .
> 
> Experts warn huge RAT invasion imminent if bins strike continues
> 
> Common sense would tell you rubbish piles left for weeks will attract the bastards in droves .



Majority of the rat problem is caused by people again not giving a shit about their area. There's some areas of Birmingham which have street cleaners visit every weekday, because the people of the area, just throw rubbish everywhere. There's fly tipping to the extreme, to the point where even one guy in a facebook group i'm in is taking cash to take peoples rubbish, and then just throwing it out on the street literally round the corner, people are so pissed off about him, and after he duped a heavily pregnant woman it's become vigilante to track him down, and people have, so i expect he's had a good beating by now.

There's also the problem that hardly anyone seems to give a shit about their garden and it just turns into an extension of dumping shit everywhere. I think I'm probably one of the only people by me who actually maintains their garden.

Birmingham is a shit hole unfortunately, way before any bin strike, as the 2015 report concluded. Piles of rubbish are everywhere, every day.  Regardless. It's a major problem. I think the Labour councillor for my area has made cleaning the streets up a priority. Obviously he didn't time that campaign very well!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 6, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Hae you guys not been issued with wheeley bins yet?


We're one of the few places that haven't got them. It's hard to explain without seeing the layout of our grove but essentially they just wouldn't work as we'd have nowhere to put them and if we did have them every bin day would see 40 wheelie bins blocking the street as the area they'd end up in is only two houses wide.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> Gosh, a true Urbanite. Thinks the end times have arrived because the bin collection is a couple of weeks late, gives it the large one and then squirts out an ossified Urban idiom. Try harder, petal. Some people are facing real hardships with the prospect of a real drop in wages.
> Fucking gimp.


I support the strike you fucking plum.


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Common sense would tell you rubbish piles left for weeks will attract the bastards in droves .



Common sense would, indeed, tell me that rats will be attracted by food. No argument there. A mountain of binbags the size of Everest won't, however, result in rats the size of fucking Godzilla or rats that are more likely to give humans diseases. It will simply result in more rats. The terrifying thing is that some people think scabbing is the answer.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> Common sense would, indeed, tell me that rats will be attracted by food. No argument there. A mountain of binbags the size of Everest won't, however, result in rats the size of fucking Godzilla or rats that are more likely to give humans diseases. It will simply result in more rats. The terrifying thing is that some people think scabbing is the answer.



Or redefine what scabbing means in order to justify shrugging about it.


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I support the strike you fucking plum.


Of course you do, luv. That's why you're fucking whining about it. Stand up, you pathetic cunt!


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I would say that whether or not the Broz are scabs depends on how they really came about, where they got their equipment from, and how their costs are being met. Given that their trucks at least were donated by some refuse company, the signs are not looking good.



According to this report they got a tipper truck...which doesnt sound anything like a privately run bin lorry...from a local community organisation . The Ballsall Heath forum .

Birmingham residents start collecting their own rubbish


St. Paul's Community Trust: Balsall Heath Forum

There would appear to be a major discrepancy between that lot and what we are being told by somebody on the Internet .  Unless anyone has some definite info to the contrary .

Which is why I'd prefer to hear the unions take on it before jumping to conclusions .


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> According to this report they got a tipper truck...which doesnt sound anything like a privately run bin lorry...from a local community organisation . The Ballsall Heath forum .
> 
> Birmingham residents start collecting their own rubbish
> 
> ...



I live up the road from Balsall Heath. The area is litter strewn at the best of times - down Moseley Road and the roads off it and towards Edgbaston - in particular. There is loads of fly tipping all around there and down towards Highgate and Digbeth. I'm not aware of any previous community led action to tackle it.  

I wonder if this 'community response' which has been widely reported by the right wing press here and others desperate to see the refuse workers lose, would be met with such an equivocal response on U75 if it was being done in a white middle class area? 

Their action is undermining the industrial action and is scabbing.


----------



## purenarcotic (Aug 6, 2017)

Birmingham isn't a shit hole. Ta.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I would say that whether or not the Broz are scabs depends on how they really came about, where they got their equipment from, and how their costs are being met. Given that their trucks at least were donated by some refuse company, the signs are not looking good.



Or it could be as basic and simple as this 'are they undermining the strike action and being held up by the local right wing rags and others who want a group of organised workers to lose?'

The answer's by the way are 'yes' and 'yes'


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> Common sense would, indeed, tell me that rats will be attracted by food. No argument there. A mountain of binbags the size of Everest won't, however, result in rats the size of fucking Godzilla or rats that are more likely to give humans diseases. It will simply result in more rats. The terrifying thing is that some people think scabbing is the answer.



All feral rats of whatever size are very likely to give humans diseases . Even little ones . Even mice if there's a plague of them . Its not simply about them biting anyone . This is a real health hazard that needs taken seriously . 

Rodent-borne diseases | Rentokil

Rats are incontinent , they leave a stream of piss everywhere they go . That piss is riddled with bacteria and viruses, some of which you really don't want to come in contact with . Infestations of flies land in that stuff too, then walk all about your kitchen , get in your food . It's a definite hazard . It can kill. It can blind you, leave you on dialysis for the rest of your life . It's really not good or safe to have to live in that type of environment . That's why I'm very reluctant to denounce anyone on what appears to be hearsay and suspicion.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

Birmingham has had a rat problem for years. Like every other city and getting worse due to cuts to pest control services, overcrowding in some areas, scruffy bastards and flytippers and a reduction in refuse collection due to GOVERNMENT CUTS.


----------



## xenon (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> Gosh, a true Urbanite. Thinks the end times have arrived because the bin collection is a couple of weeks late, gives it the large one and then squirts out an ossified Urban idiom. Try harder, petal. Some people are facing real hardships with the prospect of a real drop in wages.
> Fucking gimp.



Waister.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> That does indeed look like a minor inconvenience. Worth becoming a scab over? Hardly.



It's a public health hazard, not a minor inconvenience. The responsibility for it lies with the council but finding someone to blame does not cure sick children.

Scabbing is paid work replacing striking workers as far as I'm concerned. You could argue the toss either way over whether these volunteers are supporting the strike or undermining it, but ultimately you've got a right to clean up your own fucking street.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's a public health hazard, not a minor inconvenience. The responsibility for it lies with the council but finding someone to blame does not cure sick children.
> 
> Scabbing is paid work replacing striking workers as far as I'm concerned. You could argue the toss either way over whether these volunteers are supporting the strike or undermining it, but ultimately you've got a right to clean up your own fucking street.



Yeah, of course people do. Except there is no evidence of them every doing it before the strike in an area plagued with fly tipping and litter and then you have posts like this from them:


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 6, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Yeah, of course people do. Except there is no evidence of them every doing it before the strike in an area plagued with fly tipping and litter and then you have posts like this from them:



Whilst I do not support their views on the strike, that doesn't change the fact that they've got a right to clean up their own streets. 

Anyone who thinks these people and their kids should live surrounded by filth on a point of principle, don't bitch about it on the internet go and tell them in person.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> Of course you do, luv. That's why you're fucking whining about it. Stand up, you pathetic cunt!


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Footage of these characters lifting rubbish here . In that piece they're definitely using a builders type flat bed truck . Not a privately run bin lorry . So that appears to be false information . It was that I found most worrying but it appears to be untrue .  Also from what I can make out any undermining of the strike by removing these hazards are negligible . The waste is now being dumped un sorted and going straight to landfill . That leaves the council massively out of pocket every week as regards losing recycling income on tens of thousands of tonnes of all sorts of recyclables . As well as facing serious fines down the line for not meeting it's recycling targets . so they're still under massive pressure to reach an accommodation regardless of the rubbish being lifted or not . Actually it being dumped un sorted to landfill puts them under more financial pressure than it just lying in the streets uncollected . Which costs them nothing .
Ordinary people however seem to be getting a bit of respite...in the handful of streets this is happening in .


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I would say that whether or not the Broz are scabs depends on how they really came about, where they got their equipment from, and how their costs are being met. *Given that their trucks at least were donated by some refuse company,* the signs are not looking good.



That appears to be a false rumour .


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

The bearded broz are receiving donations from local businesses - see their Facebook page

The council have also given them free access to the tip. 

Scabs.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

He who pays the piper gets his bins collected...


----------



## NoXion (Aug 6, 2017)

For those of us who can't use Facebook at the moment, what's in the video?


----------



## not a trot (Aug 6, 2017)

So who's emptying the bin mens bins ?


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Rats


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

NoXion said:


> For those of us who can't use Facebook at the moment, what's in the video?



The bearded broz collecting rubbish from one of their local business sponsors. They are being funded via donations from businesses and the council have opened up free access for their collections. 

Forgive the pun but it stinks


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

xenon said:


> Waister.


You're accusing me of being some sort of corsetier?


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's a public health hazard, not a minor inconvenience. The responsibility for it lies with the council but finding someone to blame does not cure sick children.
> 
> Scabbing is paid work replacing striking workers as far as I'm concerned. You could argue the toss either way over whether these volunteers are supporting the strike or undermining it, but ultimately you've got a right to clean up your own fucking street.



There are no sick children. Just a few bin bags.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> There are no sick children. Just a few bin bags.



I really hope that's not the councils position otherwise they can ignore the strike indefinitely


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> I really hope that's not the councils position otherwise they can ignore the strike indefinitely


 They can ignore it for as long as they like while unpaid scabs are doing the binmen's jobs.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> They can ignore it for as long as they like while unpaid scabs are doing the binmen's jobs.



No they can't . This lot have only cleared a few streets in a major city . Which will be full again in a week. It needs clearing as an urgent matter of public health . there's little sense in individual residents taking their own rubbish to the tip if others in the street don't bother . It needs clearing badly in a more co ordinated fashion for the sake of ordinary people and their welfare "

 It seems to me as if some people think the bin men can win the more misery is heaped onto the ordinary people by this dispute. And that pressure on the people shouldn't be lifted until the disputes over. Focussing solely in that direction is a sure fire way to turn the people against the strikers . The bin men's dispute isn't with the people, it's with their employers . 
The rubbish isn't being sorted , isn't being recycled . That will cost the council a fortune the longer this continues and totally undermine any cost cutting exercise . It will render council cuts self defeating and redundant . Not worth the bother In other words . 

There's wood and trees here . It looks to me like perspective is being lost a little .


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

The Bearded Broz are led by a convicted terrorist - Shahid Butt.

From Red Action: 

This is a 'hearts and minds' PR exercise by religious sectarian extremists led by a convicted terrorist. They've gone out of their way to claim that they are not political, when in fact their motives are entirely political and aimed not only at undermining the bin workers strike but elevating themselves in the eyes of the local community. Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing.

British Jihadis: Is Extremism Widespread In UK?


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> It looks to me like perspective is being lost a little .



Indeed!
The binmen ARE the "ordinary people" so stop pissing about, throw your support behind them and condemn the scabs.


----------



## Part 2 (Aug 6, 2017)

Anything about Shahid Butt been posted yet? He has a rather colourful past.

Shahid Butt

eta: beaten to it


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 6, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> There's wood and trees here  .



It's certainly confused and disorientated you.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2017)

Air strikes can solve a great deal of this .


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 6, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's a public health hazard, not a minor inconvenience. The responsibility for it lies with the council but finding someone to blame does not cure sick children.
> 
> Scabbing is paid work replacing striking workers as far as I'm concerned. You could argue the toss either way over whether these volunteers are supporting the strike or undermining it, but ultimately you've got a right to clean up your own fucking street.



You can redefine scabbing as much as you like; it doesn't change the fact that it's performing the role of the striking workers, regardless of reward.

As I've already said, there are no sick children (though I eagerly await a "city baby attacked by rats" headline). Don't be so melodramatic. Don't want binbags outside your gaff? Stick them in the car park  of whatever company you choose! Jesus, have you no imagination?


----------



## LiamO (Aug 6, 2017)

This whole thread is depressing.

I know it's been said before but...

1. The Beardies are _right_ to shift this accumulated shite from the streets of their community and

2. They should also taket their accumulated shite directly to - and dump it outside - the houses of, the play-places of and the workplaces of the Councillors/Council officials who are provoking/prolonging the Strike... thereby fulfilling both their Community obligations and their Citizen's obligations.

Why should working-class people suffer this indignity in silence? Get it sorted, but stay onside.

Everything else is just detail/pants.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 6, 2017)

xenon said:


> Waister.



What have you got against us fat boys?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 6, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The Bearded Broz are led by a convicted terrorist - Shahid Butt.
> 
> From Red Action:
> 
> ...



Where does it say that in the article you've linked to?


----------



## MrSpikey (Aug 7, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Air strikes can solve a great deal of this .



Any planes flying during an air strike are *definitely* scabs.


----------



## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> By posing as a community-led effort. If they cared about the community then surely they should be supporting members of it who are on strike rather than aiding the council's attack on their wages?
> 
> These people are cleaning up their own streets after the bins strike


No one scabbing we do


cybershot said:


> Can you dump it outside council house on Victoria Sq next time thou!  Cheers.



No sorry we don't want to get involved with the strikes we are only moving the rubbish


----------



## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I missed this earlier. It might have got temporarily moderated for containing a link.
> 
> You've had funding from private businesses who may well have a political incentive to help break the strike. You've also been given use of vehicles of a private refuse company who may well have their eye on taking up work from the redundancies.



No this is incorrect we have not had any refuse companies vehicles we have used a open back truck which is owned by the forum, which is nothing to do with anyone it's a private firm. Then we have used a hired Luton truck. Which we all chipped in with to fund. Then we have had a lady use her van to help us out. Now local businesses have gave use some money to hire more vehicles to move the rubbish in support to clear up the streets. I would like to add that people here that sit at home accusing of us being scabs need to walk the streets and see the crap for themselves without judging. It's not pleasent especially being there that long. Your all right with the fact that we are trying and that's all we can do. We just volunteers trying to clean up the streets that's all.


----------



## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> If you don't have a clue what the strikers themselves are saying about it it's not a reflection on your credentials . It doesn't make you plastic or anything so theres no need for such defensiveness . However it's better to just admit that gracefully rather than drag Ukraine into the dispute as well . Wouldn't want Birmingham squaring up against Donbass or anything like that .
> 
> If the union regards it as scab action or strike breaking I'm perfectly happy to align with their view .



We are not scabs we don't get paid for this. We just want our streets clean that's all please don't make this into a political scene. We don't want fame also off this. We didn't invite the media they came themselves. We have been doing this for ages


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## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> It's interesting that some don't see this as scabbing because a) they're volunteers, and b) rubbish is horrid.
> 
> Whether they're paid our not is irrelevant. They're doing the work that the strikers aren't and that can only weaken the hand of the workforce as the pressure on the employer to resolve the situation is eased. If anything, the fact that they're doing it for free is surely even worse.
> 
> Judging whether scabbing is acceptable by the adverse affects that any particular strike might have on the public seems faintly ridiculous. All industrial action could be said to cause some form of inconvenience and it should be a given that all workers have the same rights to collective bargaining with strike action as the last resort. The very fact that a work stoppage by a particular occupation would result in chaos should go some way to demonstrating how valued those workers are.



I would like you to say all this when you have to live with it. It's easier said than done five weeks since the bags have moved, rats all over the bags. Maggots everywhere, the smell is horid. Strike or no strike I'm proud of cleaning up my streets long live the movement, everyone is welcome to join us regardless of colour, sex, creed or religion


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## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> As I  said in an earlier post this isn't just about inconvenience, public health is a real consideration after 5 weeks of work stoppage .
> 
> _. Vermin infestations means there's Weils disease all over the place too . And the potential for rat bites and the like . Which if you've got small kids running about the place will be a real worry . It's one thing to be inconvenienced , even massively so, by strike action . Another thing to face potential harm ._
> 
> Its summer, the kids are all off school . rich folks will be able to send their kids off somewhere . Working class kids will have the streets . I'd find it difficult to believe strikers would want kids, including their own to be facing a hazard . Which is why I'd wait and see what the union itself has to say before condemning anyone as a scab .



Thank you so much, I've moved the bags the smell makes you Feel sick. The dripping of bags and maggots is even worse. I've had rats jump out on us when moving the bags that's how bad it is. It's awful. Some people on this forum should join us and see for themselves at the state of things it's absolutely not acceptable. I'm proud to do it and give people their streets back


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## alan_ (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> I would like you to say all this when you have to live with it. It's easier said than done five weeks since the bags have moved, rats all over the bags. Maggots everywhere, the smell is horid. Strike or no strike I'm proud of cleaning up my streets long live the movement, everyone is welcome to join us regardless of colour, sex, creed or religion


Along with the clearing rubbish work you have been doing, have you talked to or made any representation to the council


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## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

alan_ said:


> Along with the clearing rubbish work you have been doing, have you talked to or made any representation to the council



No nothing at all I promise you. We are just cleaning the streets that's all. We don't want to get involved with their dispute, on who's wrong and who's right


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## alan_ (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> No nothing at all I promise you. We are just cleaning the streets that's all. We don't want to get involved with their dispute, on who's wrong and who's right


What about the strikers, have you had a chat with them at all?


----------



## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

Athos said:


> Whilst I appreciate that your hearts might be in the right place, and can understand your frustration about mounting rubbish, what you're doing - strike breaking - is political, regardless of whether or not that's your intention.  And, you say that the dispute is nothing to do with you, but you've chosen to undermine one side - the wokers.  It's really not just "simple as that", I'm afraid.  Raher than scabbing, you shuld be putting your efforts into resolving the issue to the bin men's benefit, by putting pressure on the council.



I fully understand your concern, look it from our point of view. We are working people most of us, we have to put up with this rubbish each day for the last five days. We have done our little bits to go to the tip on a Sunday buts it to much, I've personally phoned the council on numerous occasions to no avail


alan_ said:


> What about the strikers, have you had a chat with them at all?



No not at all.


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## alan_ (Aug 7, 2017)

You do realise that if you were a real binman, you would need to be up for work in an hour and a half so you could not sit on the internet all night chattin


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## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

Athos said:


> Whilst I appreciate that your hearts might be in the right place, and can understand your frustration about mounting rubbish, what you're doing - strike breaking - is political, regardless of whether or not that's your intention.  And, you say that the dispute is nothing to do with you, but you've chosen to undermine one side - the wokers.  It's really not just "simple as that", I'm afraid.  Raher than scabbing, you shuld be putting your efforts into resolving the issue to the bin men's benefit, by putting pressure on the council.



Seriously how can we resolve this matter. On a level we all came together and thought let's just move it. This is how it began nothing else. I appreciate what your saying but we have not intention of getting involved. We just want our streets back and our children in no danger of sickness. Please please understand our views and respect them as you would have done the same


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## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

alan_ said:


> You do realise that if you were a real binman, you would need to be up for work in an hour and a half so you could not sit on the internet all night chattin



Your absolutely right. Again I must stress it's not against them. We are not politically motivated in the slightest. At the same time I don't want it on my doorstep, so instead of speaking about it we decided to do something. Nothing more nothing less


----------



## alan_ (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> I fully understand your concern, look it from our point of view. We are working people most of us, we have to put up with this rubbish each day for the last five days. We have done our little bits to go to the tip on a Sunday buts it to much, I've personally phoned the council on numerous occasions to no avail
> 
> 
> No not at all.


I just asked you in the previous post (125) if you had spoken to the council you replied

"No nothing at all I promise you."

post 128 says you phoned them on numerous occasions


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## alan_ (Aug 7, 2017)

Do you support the council workers withdrawal of labour


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## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

alan_ said:


> I just asked you in the previous post (125) if you had spoken to the council you replied
> 
> "No nothing at all I promise you."
> 
> post 128 says you phoned them on numerous occasions



Listen Alan I've phoned them as a resident nothing to do with bearded broz asking them when the bin men are going to come to collect rubbish. Same reply and this is what we were sick and tired of. You asked if we had made any representation, which I've replied to as no. 

The simple fact is we live here and we don't want the crap on the door step. Why is it causing such an issue that we want to clean it up free of charge


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## alan_ (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> Listen Alan I've phoned them as a resident nothing to do with bearded broz asking them when the bin men are going to come to collect rubbish. Same reply and this is what we were sick and tired of. You asked if we had made any representation, which I've replied to as no.
> 
> The simple fact is we live here and we don't want the crap on the door step. Why is it causing such an issue that we want to clean it up free of charge


Its not causing an issue, apart from the fact that it is unsustainable and your actions may in the end prolong the situation which you claim you wish to solve


----------



## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

Athos said:


> Whilst I appreciate that your hearts might be in the right place, and can understand your frustration about mounting rubbish, what you're doing - strike breaking - is political, regardless of whether or not that's your intention.  And, you say that the dispute is nothing to do with you, but you've chosen to undermine one side - the wokers.  It's really not just "simple as that", I'm afraid.  Raher than scabbing, you shuld be putting your efforts into resolving the issue to the bin men's benefit, by putting pressure on the council.



We have no intention of breaking any strikes or taking sides. Please remember we are not emptying bins we are only taking the black bin bags away that are making mountains that's all


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## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 7, 2017)

alan_ said:


> Its not causing an issue, apart from the fact that it is unsustainable and your actions may in the end prolong the situation which you claim you wish to solve



Appreciate your concern but rest assured as I've just mentioned in a reply that we are only taking away the mountains of black bin bags not emptying out bins. But again I must stress we are not taking sides, just trying to help out and get our lives back without this crap on door steps


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## Athos (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> We have no intention of breaking any strikes or taking sides. Please remember we are not emptying bins we are only taking the black bin bags away that are making mountains that's all



You are strike breaking. Undermining the impact  of fellow workers' withdrawal of their labour, by doing at least part of their job. You're weakening their position in negotiations with the council - whether or not you meant to, you have taken a side.

Yes,  of course you want the rubbish moved, but you've gone about it the wrong way; you should have tried to bring the strike to an end by supporting the bin men, in my opinion.


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## Athos (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> Seriously how can we resolve this matter. On a level we all came together and thought let's just move it. This is how it began nothing else. I appreciate what your saying but we have not intention of getting involved. We just want our streets back and our children in no danger of sickness. Please please understand our views and respect them as you would have done the same



I'm sorry, but I don't respect what you've done (albeit I recognise that you were well-meaning). And I most certainly wouldn't have done the same. Yes, I would have organised with the aim of getting the rubbish moved, but not in the way you have. I'd have applied pressure to the council to compromise with the bin men.  There's loads of tactics you could use: withholding council tax until the situation is resolved, pickets, petitions, speaking at council meetings, legal challenges, etc., etc..


----------



## Nice one (Aug 7, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> I don't really think we are into black shirted razor gang territory just yet .
> 
> I've been in industrial action were strictly speaking it was a breach of work to rule for meals to be physically given to patients , jugs of water left at besides..stuff like that . The action taken had to be balanced against welfare and health of patients . The union made allowances for what was inconvenient and annoying and what was intolerable/unsafe for the public . Management taking patients on trolleys for operations and treatment weren't in anyway hindered , abused or considered scabs either . Even though all this mitigated against the effects of the action and took pressure off them . There are situations that arise sometimes were a balance needs to be struck .
> That's why I'd wait to hear the unions take before I'd take a position as to whether or not this constituted scabbing .
> ...



i was thinking more of the midle class students who were drafted in as volunteers to take over the work of the strikers during the 1926 strike. They could be described as 'scab labour', no?

Yes most public sector strikes, and this one in particluar, doesn't disrupt the flow of capital, so the impact is only ever going to be socially felt. But in your explanation you take the vantage point of the employer.

An alternative position could be: An elected council, acting as employer, which does not practicably negotiate with its own workforce over pay and conditions risks alienating public confidence in that councils ability to run local services. The council, as an employer, has to weigh the pros and cons of alienating public confidence, before ignoring the grievances of its own workers. Appearing overly inflexible in a situation were ordinary people are facing hazards on their doorstep is a potential route to alienating the public. I doubt any council wants to be seen as having a position of "we don't care if you get sick and there are rats and flies everythwere".

As simple statement by Bearded Broz along the lines of "we are in full support of the striking workers, and do not wish to undermine their efforts by taking on their jobs. The council must listen to the grievances of the bin men and accept full repsonsibility for the current state of our streets".


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> No sorry we don't want to get involved with the strikes we are only moving the rubbish



By moving rubbish when there's a dispute you've made yourself involved. Hence this attention you're now getting.


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## crossthebreeze (Aug 7, 2017)

So according to the news this morning, its not an all-out strike - bin men have been stopping work for 2 hours a day during July, and have now escalated that to 3 hours.
Is this correct?
If so the the fact that some people haven't had rubbish collected since June says a lot about the council's management capabilities.
And the comparisons that Casually Red is making to industrial action in the health and care sector - well this isn't an all-out strike, and the fact that stuff is that bad when workers have been there 3/4 of the time, yet the strike is against redundancies, reallyb says something.


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## purenarcotic (Aug 7, 2017)

Yeah it's only ever been a couple of hours a day. The posh areas have all had their rubbish collected, poorer areas haven't as well.


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## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> By moving rubbish when there's a dispute you've made yourself involved. Hence this attention you're now getting.



It's more than that. 

They aren't just moving rubbish away from their homes. They are engaged in a collection service. As their own propaganda shows they are collecting business waste from their backers. They have got sponsored branded high viz jackets. They have been 'donated' a collection wagon. They are working with the council who have opened up free access to the tip for them and they are promoting their service via interviews etc with local papers determined to see the dispute broken.


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## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> Yeah it's only ever been a couple of hours a day. The posh areas have all had their rubbish collected, poorer areas haven't as well.



I've heard that. In Kings Heath we've had one collection in 6 weeks. Is there more regular collection elsewhere then?


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> It's more than that.
> 
> They aren't just moving rubbish away from their homes. They are engaged in a collection service. As their own propaganda shows they are collecting business waste from their backers. They have got sponsored branded high viz jackets. They have been 'donated' a collection wagon. They are working with the council who have opened up free access to the tip for them and they are promoting their service via interviews etc with local papers determined to see the dispute broken.



Yep, sorry, agree completely. I was just expanding on words they themselves used (taking the context as a given).


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 7, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> The posh areas have all had their rubbish collected, poorer areas haven't as well.


I'm not sure this is entirely true - my parents in Four Oaks had about 4 weeks worth backed up.


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## bimble (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> everyone is welcome to join us regardless of colour, sex, creed or religion


Naming your group 'Bearded Broz' was a bit silly then wasn't it.


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## purenarcotic (Aug 7, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I've heard that. In Kings Heath we've had one collection in 6 weeks. Is there more regular collection elsewhere then?



Moseley way / top end of Balsall Heath there's only been one week it's not been collected. That or our cul de sac has just happened to be lucky but the surrounding streets have never looked like the pictures like bees.


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## purenarcotic (Aug 7, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm not sure this is entirely true - my parents in Four Oaks had about 4 weeks worth backed up.



Ah okay, has felt a bit starker down here.


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## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> Moseley way / top end of Balsall Heath there's only been one week it's not been collected. That or our cul de sac has just happened to be lucky but the surrounding streets have never looked like the pictures like bees.



Heard Harborne and Edgbaston were getting more regular collections. Moseley Village always look like a hippy bombsite to me so I hadn't noticed the score there!


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## purenarcotic (Aug 7, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Heard Harborne and Edgbaston were getting more regular collections. Moseley Village always look like a hippy bombsite to me so I hadn't noticed the score there!



Haha, it's got yet another coffee shop now, cos that's what we all need more of.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> I would like you to say all this when you have to live with it. It's easier said than done five weeks since the bags have moved, rats all over the bags. Maggots everywhere, the smell is horid. Strike or no strike I'm proud of cleaning up my streets long live the movement, everyone is welcome to join us regardless of colour, sex, creed or religion



I live in Balsall Heath and am experiencing exactly the same as you. I did not help the Balsall Heath Forum when they shifted some rubbish from round here, and I would not have helped you if I lived in Small Heath. Not to take stuff to the tip anyway, that is doing the binmen's job, ie: scabbing and undermining the strike. If you take the vans to victoria square and dump the bags outside the council offices, let me know, I'll come and help.

Otherwise I would say basically the same as the people you've replied to. If you want to help end the strike, put pressure on the council to drop their plan to cut the leading hand position and people wages by up to 25% iirc, ave £21k -> ave £17k. 




Smokeandsteam said:


> I've heard that. In Kings Heath we've had one collection in 6 weeks. Is there more regular collection elsewhere then?



My street has had two collections somehow, unless one of them was just before the action started.


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## cybershot (Aug 7, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> No sorry we don't want to get involved with the strikes we are only moving the rubbish



I'm sorry, but by moving the rubbish, you ARE now involved.


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## cybershot (Aug 7, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> Yeah it's only ever been a couple of hours a day. The posh areas have all had their rubbish collected, poorer areas haven't as well.



This!! So much this. BCC are jokers.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> Yeah it's only ever been a couple of hours a day. The posh areas have all had their rubbish collected, poorer areas haven't as well.



Personally if I was a striking bin man who wanted the support of ordinary folk I'd skip the posh neighbourhoods not the poor ones.


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## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Personally if I was a striking bin man who wanted the support of ordinary folk I'd skip the posh neighbourhoods not the poor ones.



The workers are allocated strict routes by their bosses. This had led to workers coming under attack for 'driving past' rubbish and not collecting it.

Given the amount of scabs and apologists about I suspect they'd be in a disciplinary before you could say 'bearded broz' if they displayed your community spirit don't you?


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The workers are allocated strict routes by their bosses. This had led to workers coming under attack for 'driving past' rubbish and not collecting it.
> 
> Given the amount of scabs and apologists about I suspect they'd be in a disciplinary before you could say 'bearded broz' if they displayed your community spirit don't you?



Presumably their bosses also told them not to go on strike though.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 7, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Presumably their bosses also told them not to go on strike though.



Can't sack or discipline someone for going on (official) strike action though, but you can discipline them for not following the set routes.


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## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Can't sack or discipline someone for going on (official) strike action though, but you can discipline them for not following the set routes.



Precisely. Refusal to obey a management instruction. Official strike action is a 'protected act'


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 7, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Presumably their bosses also told them not to go on strike though.


It doesn't work like that - you are given route numbers - and if route #13 is on the east side of the city you can't make a point of not collecting the rubbish that's miles away on the west. That would be up to those on that route - and if they are not at those posh areas at the stoppage time then they're not. when i was on the bins there was fierce competition to get the posh ones as there was plenty put out that you could salvage. Esp at xmas.


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## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

So it's possible that the bosses are setting routes that could end up damaging support for the strike among the general public while making sure that "the quality" (*spits*) don't suffer too much?


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## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> So it's possible that the bosses are setting routes that could end up damaging support for the strike among the general public while making sure that "the quality" (*spits*) don't suffer too much?



That's exactly what's happening. Some areas have a near normal collection and some next to nothing because of the way management are running routes


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> That's exactly what's happening. Some areas have a near normal collection and some next to nothing because of the way management are running routes



Are the strikers themselves drawing attention to this?


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## purenarcotic (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> So it's possible that the bosses are setting routes that could end up damaging support for the strike among the general public while making sure that "the quality" (*spits*) don't suffer too much?



That was my thinking about what was going on too. Hope my post didn't suggest I blamed the bin men in some way, just an observation from lots of people that that's happening.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Presumably their bosses also told them not to go on strike though.



Have you lived a sheltered life or something?


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

I'm amazed at some of the attitudes on here. That they would put politics before the welfare of their kids.

If there was an ambulance strike and your child was injured would you take them to hospital?


----------



## killer b (Aug 7, 2017)

Politics _is_ the welfare of our kids, you fucking buffoon.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> I'm amazed at some of the attitudes on here. That they would put politics before the welfare of their kids.
> 
> If there was an ambulance strike and your child was injured would you take them to hospital?


 People taking their kids to hospital isn't strike breaking. But people volunteering to take on ambulance work, while simultaneously being funded by local business, would be at least slightly iffy, don't you think?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> If there was an ambulance strike and your child was injured would you take them to hospital?



It's a lot easier to make absolute moral judgements when you're not personally involved.

My FB feed is awash with lefty types condemning folk for cleaning up their streets. None of these lefty types live in Birmingham as far as I can tell, nor have they done anything to promote or support the striking workers' cause before now.

The residents in these areas have been put in a position where there is no good option, where some form of harm is done whether or not they take action. For someone to claim that they have glanced at the situation from outside and arrived at a watertight ethical judgement that everyone else should simply accept is disingenuous bullshit.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> Politics _is_ the welfare of our kids, you fucking buffoon.



Of you go then and explain to these people that, while a few of their kids may get Weil's disease, it'll better for children in general in the long run.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

I think the "lefty types", or at least this one, are more bothered by the fact that local businesses have their fingers in this, than by the notion of residents taking matters into their own hands. Which I don't think anyone sane really has a problem with.


----------



## killer b (Aug 7, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> My FB feed is awash with lefty types condemning folk for cleaning up their streets. None of these lefty types live in Birmingham as far as I can tell, nor have they done anything to promote or support the striking workers' cause before now.


I know quite a few Birmingham based leftwingers, and they're unanimous in their support of the strike (and have been for some time), and their condemnation of the scabs.


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> Politics _is_ the welfare of our kids, you fucking buffoon.


So you wouldn't take your kid to hospital?


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> People taking their kids to hospital isn't strike breaking. But people volunteering to take on ambulance work, while simultaneously being funded by local business, would be at least slightly iffy, don't you think?


No.


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## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> I know quite a few Birmingham based leftwingers, and they're unanimous in their support of the strike (and have been for some time), and their condemnation of the scabs.


would they take their kids to hospital tho?


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## killer b (Aug 7, 2017)

All scab workers are just _looking after their kids_. People who send their children to private schools are just taking care of their best interests.


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## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> All scab workers are just _looking after their kids_. People who send their children to private schools are just taking care of their best interests.


Ok then, just let the kids die.


----------



## killer b (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> would they take their kids to hospital tho?


yeah. but as has been noted numerous times in this thread, there's loads of ways to deal with any public health issues exacerbated by the strike that doesn't involve scabbing.


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## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> No.


So you don't think that such funding might possibly represent a potential conflict of interest?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's a lot easier to make absolute moral judgements when you're not personally involved.
> 
> My FB feed is awash with lefty types condemning folk for cleaning up their streets. None of these lefty types live in Birmingham as far as I can tell, nor have they done anything to promote or support the striking workers' cause before now.
> 
> The residents in these areas have been put in a position where there is no good option, where some form of harm is done whether or not they take action. For someone to claim that they have glanced at the situation from outside and arrived at a watertight ethical judgement that everyone else should simply accept is disingenuous bullshit.



I live in Birmingham. I was born and grew up in Birmingham. My mom and dad and family also live here.

I've been down to the picket in Digbeth three times and we've handed over a cheque today for £250 raised by fellow workers.

What the fuck have you done?


ETA - loads of the posters on this thread - also supporting the strike and seeing through the shite that is the Bearded Broz - are from Brum as well. I suppose they are bluffers as well eh? Where are you from by the way?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> I'm amazed at some of the attitudes on here. That they would put politics before the welfare of their kids.
> 
> If there was an ambulance strike and your child was injured would you take them to hospital?



You are clueless pal.

1. Nobody is objecting to people shifting rubbish away from their area.
2. Bearded broz however have got an operation funded by local business going. They are working in cahoots with the council who have given them free access to the tip. Something the rest of us have been banned from.
3. They have set their Facebook page up, are never out of the local media and have got sponsorship, donated wagons, new shiny branded high viz jackets etc etc
4. Not once have they said one thing about supporting the workers in dispute.
5. The personal politics of some of those involved are as dodgy as it gets. A wolf in sheeps clothing.


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## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> So you don't think that such funding might possibly represent a potential conflict of interest?


No. Where's the conflict?


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> You are clueless pal.
> 
> 1. Nobody is objecting to people shifting rubbish away from their area.


Yes they are!


----------



## BigTom (Aug 7, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's a lot easier to make absolute moral judgements when you're not personally involved.
> 
> My FB feed is awash with lefty types condemning folk for cleaning up their streets. None of these lefty types live in Birmingham as far as I can tell, nor have they done anything to promote or support the striking workers' cause before now.
> 
> The residents in these areas have been put in a position where there is no good option, where some form of harm is done whether or not they take action. For someone to claim that they have glanced at the situation from outside and arrived at a watertight ethical judgement that everyone else should simply accept is disingenuous bullshit.



Like Smokeandsteam I live in Birmingham and I condemn this group as scabs. If it's so bad, shift it to the council house, don't take it to the tip. Instead of collecting the rubbish go en masse to councillor's surgerys, to the council meeting and visit the picket line.
I have done fuck all other than talk to people about the strike (generally when people hear of the huge wage cut they are supportive cos it's obviously ridiculous) but there is a good option when it gets too bad to leave in the streets, dump it in front of the council house.

plus everything Smokeandsteam said in their other post in reply to 1927


----------



## BigTom (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> Yes they are!



My objection is to them taking the rubbish to the tip, not shifting it away from residential areas. Take it to the council house.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> No. Where's the conflict?


 They're bosses, we're workers. That's the conflict of interest right there.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

By the way, how come the council allows the Broz free access to the tip, but not ordinary residents with a vehicle to move rubbish in and a desire not to have their street overflowing with crap?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2017)

Everyone with this brilliant plan to dump stuff outside the council house, nobody with a good idea how to do this without getting arrested and charged.

The more I look at this the less I like the look of these bearded bros. Much talk of backhanders and direct dealings with the council.


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

Those suggesting they drop it at Council HQ are obviously ignorant of the law on fly tipping and the cradle to grave responsibility for waste in this country, but I wont stoop to the levels of others and call them clueless.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2017)

And FAO those brummies who have been waving their brummie credentials, my earlier post related to people I'd seen posting on facebook, not on here. As was stated in the post itself.


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> By the way, how come the council allows the Broz free access to the tip, but not ordinary residents with a vehicle to move rubbish in and a desire not to have their street overflowing with crap?


Is this fact?


----------



## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> Is this fact?


If it's not, then who's paying?


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> If it's not, then who's paying?


Paying for what?


----------



## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> Paying for what?


 Access to the tip. They don't let you dump shit there for free you know.


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Access to the tip. They don't let you dump shit there for free you know.


My LA does.


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Access to the tip. They don't let you dump shit there for free you know.


do you know as fact that normal householders are being prevented from dropping waste off?


----------



## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> My LA does.


 Have you ever dumped entire truckfuls of refuse there for weeks at a time, for free?


----------



## 1927 (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Have you ever dumped entire truckfuls of refuse there for weeks at a time, for free?


Thats not what you said. You said that ordinary residents with a vehicle were being prevented from doing so. QED!


----------



## NoXion (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> Thats not what you said. You said that ordinary residents with a vehicle were being prevented from doing so. QED!


No I didn't. I said that residents were being prevented from doing so without being charged. This has been my experience of using the tip. Now I accept that what you say could be true - that a single resident with an ordinary car and a few black bags of household refuse could be allowed to dump at the tip free of charge. But that's not what these Broz are doing, it's significantly more substantial than that. So who's paying for the Broz' access?


----------



## BigTom (Aug 7, 2017)

1927 said:


> do you know as fact that normal householders are being prevented from dropping waste off?



You can't use the tip in Birmingham with a commercial vehicle without paying, no.

edit: yes you can in a normal car, as many trips as you like, as often as you want, no fee, just they might want proof of residency. But that's not what they were doing.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> And FAO those brummies who have been waving their brummie credentials, my earlier post related to people I'd seen posting on facebook, not on here. As was stated in the post itself.



Presume you live here as you've spent 8 pages pontificating about the dispute and shaking your head at outsiders who haven't got the inside track such as yourself?


----------



## BigTom (Aug 7, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Everyone with this brilliant plan to dump stuff outside the council house, nobody with a good idea how to do this without getting arrested and charged.
> 
> The more I look at this the less I like the look of these bearded bros. Much talk of backhanders and direct dealings with the council.



Personally wouldn't be concerned as even if police did arrest, I could not see it going past being charged, "not in the public interest", and there would be huge public support for the action, just as there is for what they've done, but plus all the people who think they are scabbing.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 7, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Personally wouldn't be concerned as even if police did arrest, I could not see it going past being charged, "not in the public interest", and there would be huge public support for the action, just as there is for what they've done, but plus all the people who think they are scabbing.



Actually given the general lack of action about actual fly tipping that happens all the fucking time round here ("oh, more flytipping in this exact same location? Hey, we'll put up some signs saying NO FLYTIPPING £1,000 FINE!!!... What's that? They've flytipped again, under the sign? oh, we'll we're out of ideas then") there might be riots if they actually prosecuted someone for flytipping this rubbish outside the council house.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2017)

BigTom said:


> You can't use the tip in Birmingham with a commercial vehicle without paying, no.
> 
> edit: yes you can in a normal car, as many trips as you like, as often as you want, no fee, just they might want proof of residency. But that's not what they were doing.



The absolute shite being spewed up on this thread to justify equivocation about scabbing is incredible.

As BigTom says yes you can take your car to the tip. What you can't do is hire a van (or use a 'donated' one) to pitch up with these quantities. You need a permit or more likely to pay someone who has got one for commercial waste. Unless you are the hero bearded broz of course - in which case the council sort one for you.


----------



## Cid (Aug 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> No I didn't. I said that residents were being prevented from doing so without being charged. This has been my experience of using the tip. Now I accept that what you say could be true - that a single resident with an ordinary car and a few black bags of household refuse could be allowed to dump at the tip free of charge. But that's not what these Broz are doing, it's significantly more substantial than that. So who's paying for the Broz' access?



Really? According to their website you can book in with a van... Though you can't use tippers/cages. The regulations are mainly there to stop commercial tipping, so I imagine it wouldn't be hard for any group that can show they're only disposing of residential waste to make regular drops. This from a Sheffield POV, but they seem like a broadly similar set of rules. 

Not that you should.


----------



## Cid (Aug 7, 2017)

They also have a roads collected section on their website if anyone feels like working out which areas they favour.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 7, 2017)

You can turn up in a van, I've done it. You are limited to a certain number of drops per year but there's no charge. Turn up at the tip, you just need proof of ID/that you're a Brmingham resident. They tend to look in the back to check it's not obviously large volumes of commercial waste.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 8, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> We are not a political party and nor do we get involved in any politics. What the council and bin men have going on is nothing to do with us. We are just cleaning out streets simple as that. Hope that helps clear up the matter www.beardedbroz.com


Late to the party but of course it's something to do with you and your actions are utterly political and undermining workers


----------



## The Flying Pig (Aug 8, 2017)

The beardies are scabbing and should be treated as such. The bosses lackies end of....


----------



## cybershot (Aug 8, 2017)

1927 said:


> Those suggesting they drop it at Council HQ are obviously ignorant of the law on fly tipping and the cradle to grave responsibility for waste in this country, but I wont stoop to the levels of others and call them clueless.



But there's a nice ironicness (appreciate not a word and prob wrong word anyway) considering the amount of flytipping that goes on in Brum unpunished.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 8, 2017)

A nice irony, it would be.


----------



## muscovyduck (Aug 8, 2017)

Instagram page up for all your overflowing bin photo needs - @ birminghambinsta . Spotted a photo of a large pile outside Jack Dromney MP's office which is on a semi-residential street.

Edit: Hyperlink because I couldn't get the photo thing to work:


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 8, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Actually given the general lack of action about actual fly tipping that happens all the fucking time round here ("oh, more flytipping in this exact same location? Hey, we'll put up some signs saying NO FLYTIPPING £1,000 FINE!!!... What's that? They've flytipped again, under the sign? oh, we'll we're out of ideas then") there might be riots if they actually prosecuted someone for flytipping this rubbish outside the council house.



Ha, I know that council attitude well. I used to complain frequently about stuff tipped on the park by my house (usually by the local scum landlords clearing stuff out after tenants moved on). Had some response along the lines of 'we're trying to get funding for a sign'. When the shiny sign eventually went up it was ripped down by the local scumbags the same night and stuck on a big bonfire of tipped waste. Fire brigade wouldn't put it out either because it was 'controlled burning' with people in attendance. Hopeless cunts all round.


----------



## Tom A (Aug 9, 2017)

Nice bit of deja vu here - reminding me of the 2014 Brighton bin workers' strike and the controversy when Caroline Lucas participated in a "community clean-up" and was denounced as a scab (at the time, the council was run by the Greens, who subsequently fell to third place in the following year's local elections). The same hand-wringing and apologia for the scabbing took place back then, too.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2017)

Class War getting called racist for using the name the group gave themselves 
also scab apologists aplenty


----------



## IMRAN Hameed (Aug 10, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> By posing as a community-led effort. If they cared about the community then surely they should be supporting members of it who are on strike rather than aiding the council's attack on their wages?
> 
> These people are cleaning up their own streets after the bins strike


They are cleaning up their streets and the bin men are with them see their video on facebook to prove it, council needs to take its finger out and get these guys back on the job, the bin men are great people trust me I know, iave helped pick up the rubbish and its a nasty job Bearded Broz


----------



## J Ed (Aug 10, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> They are cleaning up their streets and the bin men are with them see their video on facebook to prove it, council needs to take its finger out and get these guys back on the job, the bin men are great people trust me I know, iave helped pick up the rubbish and its a nasty job Bearded Broz



Hi Imran, you have linked to a page full of a series of people who are calling you scabs and telling you to stop undermining the strike. There is a video in the comments of someone saying he is part of your group and he is talking in front of a picket line, saying that the union who represents the workers supports what you are doing, but nothing from the actual workers themselves.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 10, 2017)

I think it could be difficult for workers to go on record calling people scabs. Could lead to disciplinary hearings - their employer would rub their hands at the prospect of being able to just get rid of anyone perceived as being agitators.


----------



## alan_ (Aug 10, 2017)

I am prepared to call people scabs on behalf of anybody else who does not feel able to because of disciplinary hearings etc.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 10, 2017)

New to this thread, and I've never lived in Birmingham,  but I've just read all eight pages.

One thing not so far mentioned is how a BBC Breakfast "report" the other morning was treating the Bearded Bros action as if it a heroic local community support thing. Without giving any information whatsover about why and how the strike had come about in the first place.

Unsurprising from the BBC, obviously, but that "scabs are heroes" report immediately pissed me off.

I always start with the standing assumption that all strikes are provoked by management. Striking's an utterly last resort for most unions/their members, is anything different here? 
(Also, how much publicity is there that this isn't even a full-time strike   ).

Just to clarify too, I wouldn't even care if it wasn't a last resort strike, I'd support it unconditionally anyway, but in this case as in pretty much all cases, the bosses/management bear the full blame for it.
*
Nothing* I've seen in this thread or in the links posted -- I've read almost all the links -- stops me agreeing : what these Bros are doing amounts to full-on scabbery (however "well intentioned").


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 10, 2017)

<deleted - unnecessary>


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 10, 2017)

Forgot to post that if anyone missed this link earlier in the thread, and it's a piece written by an actual Birmingham striker in this dispute, I fully recommend that they read it


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 10, 2017)

IMRAN Hameed said:


> They are cleaning up their streets and the bin men are with them see their video on facebook to prove it, council needs to take its finger out and get these guys back on the job, the bin men are great people trust me I know, iave helped pick up the rubbish and its a nasty job Bearded Broz



I read with interest that the Tories in Birmingham , and the local rag, have formally come out in support of the Bearded Broz tonight Imran. 

I note also the new line you've adopted about supporting the binmen. 

Shame you've had to be forced down that road by your political sponsors, and given you've now been adopted by the Tories as plucky community minded heroes a bit too little too late wouldn't you say pal?


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 10, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> The best option would be for local residents to organise together to move all their rubbish outside the council offices and make a statement saying they support the strike.


Absolutely love that suggestion


----------



## Cid (Aug 11, 2017)

I know how you feel Casually Red - make a good suggestion, then some other bastard goes for it and everyone else assumes it's theirs'...

Best way to do it would be a kind of waste convoy - decent number of vehicles and the council is less likely to finger individuals for fines.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 11, 2017)

Nice one said:


> Yes most public sector strikes, and this one in particluar, doesn't disrupt the flow of capital, so the impact is only ever going to be socially felt. But in your explanation you take the vantage point of the employer.
> 
> ".



Do I hell , I stated from the very beginning ..,first on this thread to say it..the rubbish should be dumped on their employers ..whether their offices ,  private homes or both . I want the bin men to win their dispute hands down  . No ifs or buts .  Any reading of my posts on this issue should be very clear I'm looking at it from the vantage point of working class  people living in a rat infested stinking rubbish tip .


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 11, 2017)

Cid said:


> I know how you feel Casually Red - make a good suggestion, then some other bastard goes for it and everyone else assumes it's theirs'...



Maybe he should have patented the idea before tens of others suggested the same thing as it's the obvious thing to do?


----------



## Nice one (Aug 11, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Maybe he should have patented the idea before tens of others suggested the same thing as it's the obvious thing to do?



Or indeed had been done already by lefty activists in a symbolic gesture of support for the strike.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 11, 2017)

If its not cleaned this is how you get all sorts of nasty diseases. 

So yeah, it needs cleaning up. God knows parts of Birmingham are filthy enough without no rubbish collection for 5-6 weeks.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 11, 2017)

There's no reports of anyone getting nasty diseases though, is there?


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 12, 2017)

Still no reports of scores of children infected by _the miasma_? Gosh, there'll be some disappointment here.


----------



## Nigel (Aug 12, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The Bearded Broz are led by a convicted terrorist - Shahid Butt.
> 
> From Red Action:
> 
> ...



Not to mention allegations of his links and association with Robert Lambert !
https://ueaeprints.uea.ac.uk/53460/1/British_Jihadism_The_Detail_and_The_Denial.pdf


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 12, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Not to mention allegations of his links and association with Robert Lambert !
> https://ueaeprints.uea.ac.uk/53460/1/British_Jihadism_The_Detail_and_The_Denial.pdf


Where is that allegation in the 270 pages?


----------



## Nigel (Aug 13, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Where is that allegation in the 270 pages?


From about page 64 onwards; it's very tenuous. In connection with Salma Yahoo, Yemen and her brother & co. arrested there; apparently going their to attend religious 'lectures',
BBC News | UK | Yemen Britons' lawyer alleges 'flagrant abuse'
  A lot of stuff surrounding Birmingham Central Mosque & MCU doesn't appear to be on the internet any more; either that or I'm not looking in the right places.
"A more intellectual analysis comes from career Special Branch officer Robert
Lambert. Lambert founded and led the Metropolitan Police Muslim Contact Unit
(MCU), before retiring to a career in academia a. His article “Salafi and Islamist
Londoners: Stigmatised Minority Faith Communities Countering Al-Qaeda” (2008)
serves as a precursor to some of the arguments in “Countering Al-Qaeda in London:
Police and Muslims in Partnership” (2011).  
Lambert argues some Sufi Muslims in Britain have looked to direct islamophobia
towards rival Muslims such as Wahhabis (Lambert, 2008, 211) and that Islamist and
Salafi Londoners are far more likely to be equated with terrorism than those following
other strands of Islam. Here, Lambert adopts the language, not of counter terrorism
but of youth work. He sees young people in these communities as “at risk” from Al
Qaeda propaganda. Lambert concludes: “Salafism and Islamism, as causal or
predictive factors, are no more significant to the profile of an Al-Qaeda terrorist than
Catholicism was to the profile of a Provisional IRA member” (Lambert, 2008, 38)."


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 13, 2017)

Nigel said:


> From about page 64 onwards; it's very tenuous. In connection with Salma Yahoo, Yemen and her brother & co. arrested there; apparently going their to attend religious 'lectures',
> BBC News | UK | Yemen Britons' lawyer alleges 'flagrant abuse'
> A lot of stuff surrounding Birmingham Central Mosque & MCU doesn't appear to be on the internet any more; either that or I'm not looking in the right places.
> "A more intellectual analysis comes from career Special Branch officer Robert
> ...


Ta. The 'at risk' phrase is part of the Prevent strategy btw


----------



## Nigel (Aug 13, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Ta. The 'at risk' phrase is part of the Prevent strategy btw


Thanks


----------



## nardy (Aug 15, 2017)

I'd sack the binmen tomorrow and recruit people who *would* work for the wages on offer. Of course the workers have a right to withdraw their labour. Likewise, the council have a right to withdraw their jobs.


----------



## Nylock (Aug 15, 2017)

nardy said:


> I'd sack the binmen tomorrow and recruit people who *would* work for the wages on offer. Of course the workers have a right to withdraw their labour. Likewise, the council have a right to withdraw their jobs.


Fuckinell you're clueless.


----------



## nardy (Aug 15, 2017)

Nylock said:


> Fuckinell you're clueless.


It's people like you who are clueless.


----------



## Nylock (Aug 15, 2017)

nardy said:


> It's people like you who are clueless.


Really, do explain under what legislation the council can fire all of the binmen then. Better yet, regale me on how you would sort it out yourself you pathetic pub bore.


----------



## nardy (Aug 15, 2017)

Nylock said:


> Really, do explain under what legislation the council can fire all of the binmen then. Better yet, regale me on how you would sort it out yourself you pathetic pub bore.


Oh yes, you're absolutely right, legislation to sack in this instance may not exist, so let's suffer stinking shit, rats and an ever-growing public health menace. Come to thing of it, let's go the whole hog and have a general strike.


----------



## Nylock (Aug 15, 2017)

From 'I have the answer' hard-man to 'general strike' hysteric. Fuck off and stop wasting people's time you sadsack.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 15, 2017)

nardy said:


> I'd sack the binmen tomorrow and recruit people who *would* work for the wages on offer. Of course the workers have a right to withdraw their labour. Likewise, the council have a right to withdraw their jobs.



How would you like it if your employer decided to cut your wages by almost 25%?

Twat.


----------



## purenarcotic (Aug 15, 2017)

So this could be going on until Christmas now. Thank god it's not really hot, keeps the smell down.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 15, 2017)

nardy said:


> I'd sack the binmen tomorrow and recruit people who *would* work for the wages on offer. Of course the workers have a right to withdraw their labour. Likewise, the council have a right to withdraw their jobs.



Quick! I'll race you to the bottom - GO!


----------



## purenarcotic (Aug 15, 2017)

nardy said:


> Oh yes, you're absolutely right, legislation to sack in this instance may not exist, so let's suffer stinking shit, rats and an ever-growing public health menace. Come to thing of it, let's go the whole hog and have a general strike.



So if you were facing job losses, pay cuts etc, you would like legislation in place for you to just be sacked as opposes to having the chance to fight for your future? Brilliant.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2017)

nardy said:


> Oh yes, you're absolutely right, legislation to sack in this instance may not exist, so let's suffer stinking shit, rats and an ever-growing public health menace. Come to thing of it, let's go the whole hog and have a general strike.


So you're publicly calling for an end to the rule of law?


----------



## Nylock (Aug 15, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Quick! I'll race you to the bottom - GO!





purenarcotic said:


> So if you were facing job losses, pay cuts etc, you would like legislation in place for you to just be sacked as opposes to having the chance to fight for your future? Brilliant.





butchersapron said:


> So you're publicly calling for an end to the rule of law?


It's stuff like this that I was paraphrasing when I called you clueless nardy you bellend.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 15, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There's no reports of anyone getting nasty diseases though, is there?



No cholera, typhus or Weil's Disease yet, although I suspect that a few people have revisited their breakfast or lunch after copping the stench of rotting refuse.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 15, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> Still no reports of scores of children infected by _the miasma_? Gosh, there'll be some disappointment here.



Don't fucking mock the miasma!!!  It killed millions before cholera was discovered!!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 15, 2017)

nardy said:


> I'd sack the binmen tomorrow and recruit people who *would* work for the wages on offer. Of course the workers have a right to withdraw their labour. Likewise, the council have a right to withdraw their jobs.



No, legally the council have no such right, you twat.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 15, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> No cholera, typhus or Weil's Disease yet, although I suspect that a few people have revisited their breakfast or lunch after copping the stench of rotting refuse.



Cholera is water borne right? so am I right in thinking that unless the rubbish mixes with the water supply (which is won't, since Birmingham's water is supplied in from the Elan Valley), cholera (and other similar water borne diseases) are not possible?
It'd have to be airborne, cross infection from rats or someone consuming rubbish?
So as long as you keep kids away from things, and food prep areas clean, is Weil's disease likely?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 15, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Cholera is water borne right? so am I right in thinking that unless the rubbish mixes with the water supply (which is won't, since Birmingham's water is supplied in from the Elan Valley), cholera (and other similar water borne diseases) are not possible?
> It'd have to be airborne, cross infection from rats or someone consuming rubbish?
> So as long as you keep kids away from things, and food prep areas clean, is Weil's disease likely?



Cholera becomes an issue when ground water becomes "enriched" enough through faecal contamination to provide a good home for the bacterium.  If the city's water supply is piped in, then only those using local wells and springs would be at risk.

Weil's Disease can be more of an issue, because it's about touching things that a rat has pissed on, and that could be virtually anything. As Casually Red has stated, rats are pretty much incontinent, so you'd pretty much have to stop your kids touching anything a rat *might* have wazzed on.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 15, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Cholera becomes an issue when ground water becomes "enriched" enough through faecal contamination to provide a good home for the bacterium.  If the city's water supply is piped in, then only those using local wells and springs would be at risk.
> 
> Weil's Disease can be more of an issue, because it's about touching things that a rat has pissed on, and that could be virtually anything. As Casually Red has stated, rats are pretty much incontinent, so you'd pretty much have to stop your kids touching anything a rat *might* have wazzed on.



ok, rats are basically a fact of life in Birmingham, before the bin strike, during it and no doubt afterwards as well. A city with lots of canals is always going to have lots of rats. They don't breed *that* quickly either so I guess there is increased risk as they are bolder but it still doesn't feel like it's much of one. idk, clearly not clearing away rubbish leads to massive public health problems, but at the same time I feel like getting to that stage takes a long time - months to years, not days to weeks. 
Lack of medical knowledge on my part though so could be totally wrong.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 15, 2017)

Weil's disease is transmitted through ingestion or via touching something infected with cut or graised skin. It can mostly be avoided through normal hygiene procedures.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 15, 2017)

BigTom said:


> ok, rats are basically a fact of life in Birmingham, before the bin strike, during it and no doubt afterwards as well. A city with lots of canals is always going to have lots of rats. *They don't breed *that* quickly *either so I guess there is increased risk as they are bolder but it still doesn't feel like it's much of one. idk, clearly not clearing away rubbish leads to massive public health problems, but at the same time I feel like getting to that stage takes a long time - months to years, not days to weeks.
> Lack of medical knowledge on my part though so could be totally wrong.



Depends what you mean by 'quickly' - 

Black rats produce 5–10 young per litter, and have between 3–6 litters a year.
The gestation period is about 3 weeks.
It only takes between 12–16 weeks from birth for them to reach sexual maturity.
Common Rat Species | Rentokil Pest Control


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 15, 2017)

There's 40 cases tops annually with most coming back from overseas according to NHS Direct and only a small percentage of those are serious.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 15, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Depends what you mean by 'quickly' -
> 
> Black rats produce 5–10 young per litter, and have between 3–6 litters a year.
> The gestation period is about 3 weeks.
> ...



And then you have to factor in mortality rates and what new dangers they'd be exposed to by running around the streets.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 15, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There's 40 cases tops annually with most coming back from overseas according to NHS Direct and only a small percentage of those are serious.



interesting, so it'd be pretty easy to see if there was an uptick in Weil's disease cases at least, as there probably shouldn't be more than a couple of cases per year in the various NHS trusts that cover Birmingham.


----------



## purenarcotic (Aug 15, 2017)

This picture made me laugh, it's been 50 days since rubbish was last collected on the Northfield Road:


----------



## nardy (Aug 15, 2017)

I assume that Birmingham employs the binmen directly, instead of using a waste disposal contractor, the services of which could be terminated in relatively short order.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 15, 2017)

nardy said:


> I assume that Birmingham employs the binmen directly, instead of using a waste disposal contractor, the services of which could be terminated in relatively short order.



Aside from the agency workers, yes they do. Veolia run some of the recycling / rubbish -> power plants.
You can't usually terminate a contract early without paying massive fees.
How would you feel about your employer cutting your wages by 25%?


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Aug 15, 2017)

nardy said:


> I assume that Birmingham employs the binmen directly, instead of using a waste disposal contractor, the services of which could be terminated in relatively short order.


I'd like to see you terminated in relatively short order, you repellent little maggot.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 15, 2017)

Saw the Google Streetmapping car today, perfect timing, Birmingham is going to look a right shit hole, haha.


----------



## nardy (Aug 16, 2017)

BigTom said:


> How would you feel about your employer cutting your wages by 25%?


My employers cut my income by 100% quite often. My employers are clients, and the cuts occur when there's no work between projects.

It's called self-employment.


----------



## nardy (Aug 16, 2017)

Ho Chi Ming said:


> I'd like to see you terminated in relatively short order, you repellent little maggot.


A fair percentage of the general public, when faced by strikes by binmen, train drivers, et al, want to kick strikers' arses. Thus a fair percentage of the general public are, to you, repellent little maggots.

And that same percentage of the public would like to see lefties like you terminated in relatively short order.


----------



## alan_ (Aug 16, 2017)

nardy said:


> My employers cut my income by 100% quite often. My employers are clients, and the cuts occur when there's no work between projects.
> 
> It's called self-employment.


If your clients are cutting your income by 100% quite often(your words) then you must be pretty shit at what you do. Added to that, is there no one who will be loyal to you when you are up against it. Why is that do you think?


nardy said:


> A fair percentage of the general public, when faced by strikes by binmen, train drivers, et al, want to kick strikers' arses. Thus a fair percentage of the general public are, to you, repellent little maggots.
> 
> And that same percentage of the public would like to see lefties like you terminated in relatively short order.



I am afraid that I need to see some working out on this one. Whilst your answer may be entirely accurate, there are more points for how you reached that conclusion


----------



## nardy (Aug 16, 2017)

alan_ said:


> If your clients are cutting your income by 100% quite often(your words) then you must be pretty shit at what you do. Added to that, is there no one who will be loyal to you when you are up against it. Why is that do you think?


Oh, ffs. The 100% cut means that, in self-employment, sometimes there's work from clients and sometimes there's NO work from clients. Peaks and troughs.


alan_ said:


> I am afraid that *I need to see some working out on this one*. Whilst your answer may be entirely accurate, there are more points for how you reached that conclusion


Jesus H Christ.


----------



## alan_ (Aug 16, 2017)

nardy said:


> Oh, ffs. The 100% cut means that, in self-employment, sometimes there's work from clients and sometimes there's NO work from clients. Peaks and troughs.
> Jesus H Christ.


There is no H in Jesus Christ.
Think what you like about the hardworking binmen and the struggle they are presently having but when you take the name of our lord and saviour in vain, then you have crossed a line my friend


----------



## Athos (Aug 16, 2017)

alan_ said:


> There is no H in Jesus C_h_rist.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 16, 2017)

nardy said:


> My employers cut my income by 100% quite often. My employers are clients, and the cuts occur when there's no work between projects.
> 
> It's called self-employment.



My brother's self-employed.

But he supports all strikers against cuts to their wages, because he happens *not *to  resent the hard-fought-for workplace rights of employed, unionised people.

Unlike selfish right-wing twazzocks like you.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 16, 2017)

nardy said:


> A fair percentage of the general public, when faced by strikes by binmen, train drivers, et al, want to kick strikers' arses. Thus a fair percentage of the general public are, to you, repellent little maggots.
> 
> And that same percentage of the public would like to see lefties like you terminated in relatively short order.



I run a small business, I pay well above the 'going rate' for the work & I respect those that work for me, unlike B'ham City Council, and I fully support the strikers.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 16, 2017)

nardy said:


> My employers cut my income by 100% quite often. My employers are clients, and the cuts occur when there's no work between projects.
> 
> It's called self-employment.


I'm self employed and still think you're a cunt


----------



## BigTom (Aug 16, 2017)

nardy said:


> My employers cut my income by 100% quite often. My employers are clients, and the cuts occur when there's no work between projects.
> 
> It's called self-employment.



Was self-employed myself for 12 years, you don't have an employer, you have clients, it's different. If you are failing to manage your sales pipeline to ensure a decent, regular flow of work then that is your problem, it's not your employers cutting your wages by 25% (or 100%). 
A better example would be one of your regular clients deciding to pay you 25% less for doing the same job you did for them last month. How would you feel about that?


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 16, 2017)

I'm a bit confused Nardy, why are you proudly holding up your own lack of working security as an example of why people fighting for full-time jobs should just accept being sacked or having wages cut?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 16, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> I'm a bit confused Nardy, why are you proudly holding up your own lack of working security as an example of why people fighting for full-time jobs should just accept being sacked or having wages cut?


Because surely there's a prize waiting for him when he gets to the bottom first...


----------



## belboid (Aug 16, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Aside from the agency workers, yes they do. Veolia run some of the recycling / rubbish -> power plants.
> You can't usually terminate a contract early without paying massive fees.


And then there's TUPE rights.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 16, 2017)

Strike suspended following ACAS talks apparently, tweet only info:


----------



## BigTom (Aug 16, 2017)

BBC Local Live: Birmingham and the Black Country on Wednesday 16 August 2017 - BBC News

live page so probably not great as a link but looks like the council have backed down on the pay cut thing:



> There are "no redundancy steps in place", says conciliation service Acas following "progress" between the council and the union representing refuse collectors who have this morning agreed to suspend industrial action



how this was going to work is that the "leading hand" position was going to be removed, all "leading hands" would be made redundant and could either re-apply for their job but now at the lower "hand" grade - a 25% pay cut, or they might be offered jobs at the same grade elsewhere (but the union said all job offers had qualification requirements that the bin men couldn't meet and so it really wasn't an offer at all).
So no redundancies = no pay cuts.
Unite have (and already had said they would) agreed to change in working patterns so binmen will work their hours over 5 days rather than 4.

Seems like victory


----------



## BigTom (Aug 16, 2017)

Unite statement, apologies is in an image but I can't find a text article, jsut an image of the statement











VICTORY!
No job losses, no pay cuts, working hours changes to be "considered", not even agreed to.
remember folks: unionise, organise, agitate. It works.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 16, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Seems like victory



The devil with these things is always in the detail. 

That said the news piece does confirm that the Council have withdrawn the proposal to cut the Grade 3 jobs. If so this is a massive victory.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 16, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The devil with these things is always in the detail.
> 
> That said the news piece does confirm that the Council have withdrawn the proposal to cut the Grade 3 jobs. If so this is a massive victory.



Hopefully you can read the unite statement in the images I posted - Unite seem very, very happy


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 16, 2017)

Hopefully they'll get a load of overtime now to clear up the backlog. I like that one of the reasons the council wanted to bring an end to the dispute was because it was costing them £40k a day and they couldn't afford it. If there could be a silver lining to aggressive cuts...


----------



## cybershot (Aug 16, 2017)

Great news all round, for those that want the full statement: 
Unite hails victory in Birmingham bin dispute


----------



## gawkrodger (Aug 16, 2017)

Full Unite Press Release - text only


Unite press release

Immediate release: Wednesday 16 August 2017

Unite hails victory in Birmingham bin dispute

Unite, the country’s largest union, today (Wednesday 16 August) said that it has achieved victory in the Birmingham bin dispute which will result in the suspension of the current industrial action.

The union said that the city council had accepted the refuse workers’ case and restored the grade 3 jobs, which are responsible for the safety at the rear of the refuse vehicles.

Normal collection of bins will resume, as Unite and the city council hold further talks under the auspices of the conciliation service, Acas to resolve the outstanding issues.

Unite assistant general secretary Howard Beckett said: “We are very pleased that we have reached the stage where we can suspend the industrial action while we hold further talks about the future of the refuse service.

“I know this news will be greatly welcomed by the people of Birmingham as they look forward to their bins being collected again on a regular and seamless basis. I would like to thank them for their understanding over recent weeks.

“Unite will suspend the current round of industrial action that was due to run until 21 September to create a conducive climate for the talks to proceed smoothly. Our members will be working normally.

“I would like to pay tribute to the city council leader Cllr John Clancy who has worked very hard and travelled the extra mile to achieve this solution, despite the reservations of some top council officials.

“The council has addressed our members’ concerns, including the safeguarding of the grade 3 post that is vital to the safety at the rear of the refuse vehicles. Unite also welcomes the fact that our suspended rep is now returning to work

“Unite recognises - and deplores - that local government in England has suffered swingeing cuts to its funding since the Tories came to power in 2010.

“Finally, I would like to thank our members for the solidarity they have shown in defence of a decent and well-resourced refuse collection in Birmingham, and their stand against job cuts and massive cuts to their wages.

“We will be entering into these Acas talks in a constructive and positive fashion – and recognise that there is still much hard work to be done.”

The terms of today’s agreement include Birmingham city council cabinet members agreeing in principle that the grade 3 posts will be maintained and, consequently, there are no redundancy steps in place.

In addition, the parties will now look to discuss, through Acas, how the service can be improved, with the intention of improving efficiencies in performance of the bin collection service generally, including what savings can be made, and specifically how best the current grade 3 roles can now be maintained and developed so that they take forward the ambition to deliver cleaner streets and align to wider ‘Total Place’ principles.

Unite has also agreed in principle to recommend to its members work pattern changes, including consideration of a five-day working week. Both parties agree the working week should be designed to maximise service delivery.

These discussions will be with the intention of incorporating any agreement as an amendment to the Waste Management Service cabinet report in September 2017.
ENDS
Notes to editors:

For more information please contact Unite senior communications officer Shaun Noble on 020 3371 2060 or 07768 693940. Unite press office is on: 020 3371 2065

Email: shaun.noble@unitetheunion.org

Twitter: @unitetheunion Facebook: unitetheunion1 Web: unitetheunion.org

Unite is Britain and Ireland’s largest trade union with over 1.4 million members working across all sectors of the economy. The general secretary is Len McCluskey.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 16, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Hopefully they'll get a load of overtime now to clear up the backlog. I like that one of the reasons the council wanted to bring an end to the dispute was because it was costing them £40k a day and they couldn't afford it. If there could be a silver lining to aggressive cuts...



Not just overtime. The council - who were cutting agency workers jobs on the bins last year - have already signed up to 200 new jobs. These need to be recruited and agency workers made permanent.  

Be interesting to see what response comes from the 'bearded broz' by the way.....


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 17, 2017)

The council put out a properly sour grapes response, whoever's in charge of their PR writeup was seemingly _very_ unhappy with the climbdown. Most press (including the Star) ran with variations of this:



			
				BBC said:
			
		

> In a statement, the council said the Acas statement did not represent the council's official position as the matter still had to be considered by cabinet members at a special meeting on 24 August.



But the tone was more like "nothing's changed, the statement doesn't reflect reality."


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 17, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> The council put out a properly sour grapes response, whoever's in charge of their PR writeup was seemingly _very_ unhappy with the climbdown. Most press (including the Star) ran with variations of this:



The cold and somewhat grubby reality of how the labour party implement Tory cuts lies behind the statement. It demonstrates the deep divisions and vicious personal enmities within the Labour Party in the city. 

Unite have praised Clancy for personally intervening and overruling officials and the Councillors (mis)handling the dispute. For their part the councillors are unhappy because Clancy pushed through the cuts budget in the first place that these proposals emerged from and then left them to take the flak for implementing it.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Aug 17, 2017)

Meanwhile in Doncaster (sorry for c&p) :

*Unite warns no stone will be left unturned if Doncaster bins company breaks law to undermine strikes*

Unite has received evidence that Suez is actively recruiting agency workers to try to break the strike. The recruitment of agency workers to break or undermine strike action is strictly illegal and is a criminal offence. 

The advert circulated by Aim Recruit Ltd (see below), which already supplies agency workers to Suez, states: “This work is to cover industrial action and the workers will need to cross a picket line”. 





Other agencies identified to be recruiting for refuse workers on the contract include Logical Personal Solutions and Ideal Recruit. 

Unite is writing to the government’s Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate, which is responsible for ensuring that the rules on agency workers are upheld, warning that Suez and the agencies concerned are prepared to act illegally. Unite will also write directly to the company and the agencies warning them that they will be engaging in illegal activity. The union will also consider what other legal action it can take in support of its members. 

Unite regional officer, Shane Sweeting, said: “Suez’s actions are disgraceful and the company will be acting illegally if it recruits agency labour to undermine a strike. It is simply incredible that Suez is more interested in recruiting agency workers to try to undermine the dispute rather than entering into negotiations with Unite. 

“Unite will leave no stone unturned be it legal, political or industrial in ensuring that Suez is not allowed to break the law”. 

The first strike is scheduled to begin on Wednesday 23 August until Sunday 27 August. A further period of strike action will then occur from Saturday 2 September finishing on Wednesday 6 September.​_Continues at link_


----------



## gawkrodger (Aug 31, 2017)

Strike is back on!

Unite Press Release
For immediate use: Thursday 31 August 2017
Bin strikes set to resume warns Unite as Birmingham council issues redundancies 
“A deeply provocative act that does a disservice to the people of Birmingham,” says Unite
News that Birmingham city council had cancelled tomorrow’s (Friday 1 September) cabinet meeting and would instead start issuing redundancy notices to refuse workers, would provoke the resumption of strike action Britain’s largest union, Unite warned today (Thursday 31 August).
Describing the news contained in a letter from the council’s interim chief executive as ‘deeply provocative’, Unite warned that refuse workers could resume their industrial action as early as tomorrow and walk out for three hours on a daily basis at the following times 07:00, 10:30 and 13:00.
Unite said it would re-ballot its members meaning industrial action could extend until the New Year.
Commenting Unite assistant general secretary Howard Beckett said: “This is a deeply provocative act that drives a coach and horses through the agreement Unite reached with the council in good faith at the conciliation service Acas.
“It does a great disservice to the people of Birmingham and the city’s refuse workers who now face being made redundant and losing their livelihoods or pay cuts of thousands of pounds.
“The last thing refuse workers want to do is resume industrial action and see piles of rubbish accumulating on Birmingham’s streets. This is their city too. Our members want to focus on delivering a safe efficient service to people of Birmingham.
“Sadly it seems the council does not want to see that happen. Instead of embracing an agreement that would have seen compromise on all sides, the council seems content to put people on the dole and cut their wages by up to £5,000.
“Unite calls on the council to come to its senses and withdraw these redundancy notices to avoid the disruption of industrial action.”
ENDS


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 31, 2017)

Fuck the council. Good luck comrades


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 31, 2017)

Bearded Broz have shut up though. Hopefully they won't stick their beaks in again.


----------



## purenarcotic (Aug 31, 2017)

Solidarity. What a shit move by the council. Does anyone have a link to the strike fund, I've lost it.


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## ddraig (Aug 31, 2017)

Birmingham bin strike expected to resume on Friday - BBC News


----------



## cybershot (Aug 31, 2017)

Bugger, they didn't collect mine this week anyway, I guess as still dealing with backlog, my wheelie is already about to start overflowing again.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 31, 2017)

I was out with two stewards tonight who said this:

1. Clancy met with the Union full timers and ACAS and agreed to shelve the redundancies. This was the breakthrough that persuaded the shop floor to suspend the strikes.
2. The new chief executive of the council - unelected obviously and appointed to ensure the Tory 'improvement panel' didn't step in and take over control of the city - then prepared a report for the council critising Clancy and Unite. The report said that unless these workers were sacked and the remaining workers are forced onto lower pay the council could not set a legal budget next year (Birmingham has got more equal pay claims in the pipeline). This is an extraordinary intervention. A council leader being attacked by an official and his deal trashed. Even more extraordinarily the Tories and liberals found support from within the labour ranks when attacking the proposals agreed by the leader of the council and Unite.
3. The council (90% plus labour) is now fundamentally split on the issue and had broken off talks as a result.
4. The labour politics are complex and caught up in selection wrangling between Corbyn supporters and others. Next year every council seat in the city is up for election.

This is now an increasingly important dispute. The stewards are not in the mood to be fucked about and nor is the shop floor. They are not having redundancies and they aren't in the business of negotiating pay cuts to offset the discriminatory pay arrangements of the council. Their view of the Labour Party is that they are indivisible from the Tory scum also infesting the council chamber.

This is a savvy, discpined and organised Branch. They've got leverage and they know how to deploy it. Their views on the bearded islamists, queasy liberals and labour wankers trying to sack their mates and force their pay down is absolutely unequivocal.

Time to choose sides....


----------



## cybershot (Sep 1, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I was out with two stewards tonight who said this:
> 
> 1. Clancy met with the Union full timers and ACAS and agreed to shelve the redundancies. This was the breakthrough that persuaded the shop floor to suspend the strikes.
> 2. The new chief executive of the council - unelected obviously and appointed to ensure the Tory 'improvement panel' didn't step in and take over control of the city - then prepared a report for the council critising Clancy and Unite. The report said that unless these workers were sacked and the remaining workers are forced onto lower pay the council could not set a legal budget next year (Birmingham has got more equal pay claims in the pipeline). This is an extraordinary intervention. A council leader being attacked by an official and his deal trashed. Even more extraordinarily the Tories and liberals found support from within the labour ranks when attacking the proposals agreed by the leader of the council and Unite.
> ...



A seperate public protest is needed and we do now seriously need to all head to Victoria square in mass and dump all our black bags outside council house. Any ideas how this can be arranged????


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 1, 2017)

cybershot said:


> A seperate public protest is needed and we do now seriously need to all head to Victoria square in mass and dump all our black bags outside council house. Any ideas how this can be arranged????



Should be something coming out about this hopefully mid week ish


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2017)

Need to get everyone with keys to a council van buttered up sharpish!


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 1, 2017)

bad-ass benefit badges to raise a bit of £££ for the strike fund. Order details up soon


----------



## 1927 (Sep 1, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> bad-ass benefit badges to raise a bit of £££ for the strike fund. Order details up soon


££££ won't even pay the owners of the rights to Oscar the Grouch for infringement of copyright!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 1, 2017)

I doubt they'll be bothered about a design being used on some badges sold for a solidarity fund.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 1, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I doubt they'll be bothered about a design being used on some badges sold for a solidarity fund.


I take it you've never been at the receiving end of solicitors' letters from copyright wankers who think they can intimidate you into paying them royalties?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 1, 2017)

Saul Goodman said:


> I take it you've never been at the receiving end of solicitors' letters from copyright wankers who think they can intimidate you into paying them royalties?



Did you know that you're member 66666? 
Maybe they'll turn up to the picket line all brave to hand over the cease and desist letter?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 1, 2017)

How are they going to trace anyone?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 1, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Did you know that you're member 66666?
> Maybe they'll turn up to the picket line all brave to hand over the cease and desist letter?


I was informed of this shortly after signing up  

Seriously though. Big copyright owners tend to have zero scruples. 
I had ebay's lawyers on to me one time for some spurious shit. They obviously have lawyers crawling out of every alcove, searching the internet for anything they can use to justify their pitiful existence.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 1, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> How are they going to trace anyone?


You obviously haven't had dealings with these leeches, have you


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 1, 2017)

Saul Goodman said:


> You obviously haven't had dealings with these leaches, have you



My mate did. He did T-shirts with famous faces on (drawn by himself) and had some American Lawyers on him. The thing is, the law is different in the UK than the US in that nobody has the copyright to their own image. It's the artist / photographer that does. But that isn't the case in the US. 
Anyway he couldn't be arsed with it, pulled it, and just replied that the guy shouldn't really have been illustrated as he didn't have the talent to match the others he'd done (or something similarly cutting). 
Not that that helps here. As Oscar will be subject to copyright. But bring it on. Maybe we can dump the trash at their offices?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 1, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Maybe we can dump the trash at their offices?


That's the answer... but the council's offices.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 1, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> bad-ass benefit badges to raise a bit of £££ for the strike fund. Order details up soon



Right, you want badges, you can get badges

£2  a badge (inc. p+p) paypal (ideally gift but remember to write your address) to

independentbwsg@gmail.com

if you're after bulk orders (10+) drop us a line


----------



## Ted Striker (Sep 1, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> Right, you want badges, you can get badges
> 
> £2  a badge (inc. p+p) paypal (ideally gift but remember to write your address) to
> 
> ...



Will buy and support  

(Bad boys reference?)


----------



## 1927 (Sep 2, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I doubt they'll be bothered about a design being used on some badges sold for a solidarity fund.


You reckon?


----------



## DownwardDog (Sep 2, 2017)

I remember reading about Sesame Street suing the shit of some woman who was making Elmo cookies without a license. They guard their image rights jealously and will lawyer up if they find out about it.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 2, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> Right, you want badges, you can get badges
> 
> £2  a badge (inc. p+p) paypal (ideally gift but remember to write your address) to
> 
> ...



is it ok to put this email address out on twitter/facebook, I assume so, considering Urban appears in google search results, but just want to check.


----------



## 1927 (Sep 2, 2017)

DownwardDog said:


> I remember reading about Sesame Street suing the shit of some woman who was making Elmo cookies without a license. They guard their image rights jealously and will lawyer up if they find out about it.


Henson Productions even sued Disney Corporation so they aren't scared who they take on!


----------



## 1927 (Sep 2, 2017)

What is even more likely to piss them off is the fact that it implies support in a political arena. I'd be pretty worried if I had done this.


----------



## belboid (Sep 2, 2017)

Has there really been a page of discussion about this nonsense? It's entirely irrelevant.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

are you or have you grassed then 1927?


----------



## 1927 (Sep 2, 2017)

ddraig said:


> are you or have you grassed then 1927?


Why would I do that?

ETA: did I see you outside market yesterday?


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

just asking

possibly, what was i doing?


----------



## 1927 (Sep 2, 2017)

ddraig said:


> just asking
> 
> possibly, what was i doing?


There was a free vegan food stand!


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

1927 said:


> There was a free vegan food stand!


Food not Bombs, yes


----------



## Ted Striker (Sep 2, 2017)

ddraig said:


> just asking
> 
> possibly, what was i doing?



Knocking out "Beaker supports the strike AGAINST cuts to science research" car stickers?


----------



## Ted Striker (Sep 2, 2017)

ddraig said:


> Food not Bombs, yes


Got to call Vegans out for a bit of a false dichotomy there.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

Ted Striker said:


> Got to call Vegans out for a bit of a false dichotomy there.


why's that? it just means money should be spent on feeding people rather than bombs, quite simple


----------



## Tom A (Sep 5, 2017)

Nice to see Food Not Bombs still going on, remember them from 10 years ago, nice bit of community action, more important now than ever with the increased levels of homelessness and food bank dependency since then.

Also, solidarity for the striking binmen, my union branch had already sent its message of solidarity and £100 to the strike fund.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 6, 2017)

Mods/OP - Could we possibly change the thread title to just Brum Bin Strike. This has the potential to really be a big 'un.


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## gawkrodger (Sep 6, 2017)

***News for happenings etc over the next week or so***

Tuesday 12/09 @12.30 Victoria Square Brum. 
Rally to support binmen to coincide with the first full council meeting since the strike re-started

Sunday 17/09 @11.00am Victoria Square Brum.
Mass demo (stage and speakers job)

Offical strike Twitter account

From tomorrow all Unite offices in the West Midlands will start food banks for striking bin men. Please support if you can.



More initiatives etc to be announced by the end of the week


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2017)

*thread title changed by request


----------



## cybershot (Sep 9, 2017)

BCC are now asking their own staff to assist in scabbing their colleagues rather than hiring agency workers.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 9, 2017)

Cunts.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2017)

Just seen a collection being done down the road from me - clearly agency staff, unbranded truck and unbranded hiviz.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 10, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> Cunts.


This. And fuck Labour.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 11, 2017)

One down Bin strike council leader resigns 

Not fully read article as just heard it in news. Not sure if this is good news for the binmen or not to be honest.


----------



## baldrick (Sep 11, 2017)

Anyone have details of how to give money to the strike fund?


----------



## BigTom (Sep 11, 2017)

baldrick said:


> Anyone have details of how to give money to the strike fund?



gawkrodger ?

edit: if you work in town you could probably go to Transport House on Broad Street where Unite have their offices (old TGWU building, Unite was formed from a merger of TGWU and Amicus). It's sort of opposite sheepcote street junction.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 11, 2017)

baldrick said:


> Anyone have details of how to give money to the strike fund?



There are details somewhere on the FB page: 


Birmingham Bin Workers Strike - Independent Support Group


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 11, 2017)

BigTom said:


> gawkrodger ?
> 
> edit: if you work in town you could probably go to Transport House on Broad Street where Unite have their offices (old TGWU building, Unite was formed from a merger of TGWU and Amicus). It's sort of opposite sheepcote street junction.



Currently you can donate via bank transfer (should hopefully be a gofundme or similar as well as a way to pay for food donations in a day or two)

Unity trust bank
Sort code 60-83-01
Account no 33011998


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## gawkrodger (Sep 11, 2017)

oh, and Brum Unite offices have now moved from Broad Street and are in the Eastside development

Unite the Union, 6 Holt Court North, Heneage Street West, Birmingham, B7 4AX


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## baldrick (Sep 11, 2017)

Thanks all. It's unlikely I'll be able to get into town this week so bank transfer etc most useful.


----------



## killer b (Sep 12, 2017)

Why I have decided to resign

Good stuff.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 12, 2017)

killer b said:


> Why I have decided to resign
> 
> Good stuff.



The interim Chief Executive has also confirmed that she will not be seeking the job on a permanent basis. 

However, the redundancy notices remain in place, the workers jobs were advertised in the Metro here yesterday and the Council has gone out to all its staff asking them to help collect waste at the weekend for overtime payments and had increased the use of private contractors.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 12, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> the Council has gone out to all its staff asking them to help collect waste at the weekend for overtime payments



This is disgraceful. Also noted on the leaked emails that anyone who volunteers for this has to be trained, obviously, but during their normal working hours, so taking them away from whatever job they are currently doing, impacting council services either further and yet more time and money being spent on training casuals.

This whole fiasco must be costing them a fortune.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 12, 2017)

We've had a collection, apparently not even a proper bin lorry, just blokes putting black sacks into the back of a van.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 12, 2017)

killer b said:


> Why I have decided to resign
> 
> Good stuff.


Good.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 12, 2017)

cybershot said:


> This is disgraceful. Also noted on the leaked emails that anyone who volunteers for this has to be trained, obviously, but during their normal working hours, so taking them away from whatever job they are currently doing, impacting council services either further and yet more time and money being spent on training casuals.
> 
> This whole fiasco must be costing them a fortune.



In addition to this they have abandoned any pretence of recycling (ours hasn't been collected for over a month now and is just a wet pile of shit). They can expect a further penalty for that.

And let's remember that the pretext for trashing the deal at ACAS that was cited by the Chief Executive was that such a deal threatended the ability of the counci to set a legal budget (against a backdrop of £1 Billion Tory cuts since 2010). The cost of using contractors, overtime, the offer to all staff and the accumulating fines must be into many £ Millions by now indicating that money alone is not the agenda here.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 12, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> In addition to this they have abandoned any pretence of recycling (ours hasn't been collected for over a month now and is just a wet pile of shit). They can expect a further penalty for that.
> 
> And let's remember that the pretext for trashing the deal at ACAS that was cited by the Chief Executive was that such a deal threatended the ability of the counci to set a legal budget (against a backdrop of £1 Billion Tory cuts since 2010). The cost of using contractors, overtime, the offer to all staff and the accumulating fines must be into many £ Millions by now indicating that money alone is not the agenda here.



They've collected my recycling twice since the strikes started. One occassion as they came after I got home it was just thrown in the back of the lorry along with the black bags. I can only assume it was also done that way the second time, as again they left the card/paper box on my grass next to the bin, rather than in it. So despite being collected, it's not going to the recycling plant but to landfill.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 12, 2017)

Big 7am picket at the Digbeth depot tomorrow morning

Rally on Sunday as well


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 12, 2017)

cybershot said:


> They've collected my recycling twice since the strikes started. One occassion as they came after I got home it was just thrown in the back of the lorry along with the black bags. I can only assume it was also done that way the second time, as again they left the card/paper box on my grass next to the bin, rather than in it. So despite being collected, it's not going to the recycling plant but to landfill.



The Council have released figures today showing they have lost over £300,000 on missed recycling since the dispute started.

We've only had one collection since the strike and like yours it went straight in with the landfill stuff. I've given up recycling and just chuck everything in the bin now.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 13, 2017)

I'm using the recycling bin as an extra bin as I saw a statement saying it wasn't been recycled but would be collected with everything else to go to landfill a couple of weeks ago. 




. Pro


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

Video: Unite’s Beckett: “why Manzie must resign” #BirminghamBinStrike


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 16, 2017)

tomorrow


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 17, 2017)

pretty good turnout for  a Sunday morning in Brum


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 17, 2017)

pretty good turnout for  a Sunday morning in Brum


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 17, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> pretty good turnout for  a Sunday morning in Brum



300 you reckon? 

I've heard today the Council is invoking partial performance against the workers (for those who don't know this means the council can deduct a full days pay when strike action is taken - even just an hour). Plus further disciplinary charges against more workers have been issued.

So private contractors, a scabbing operation via other council staff, stewards facing gross misconduct charges and now anti trade union law being invoked. Still not a word from Corbyn or McDonnell by the way


----------



## belboid (Sep 17, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Still not a word from Corbyn or McDonnell by the way


Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell backs Birmingham bin strike

Corbyn has spoken out as well, supportively but in a rather vague way. They should say more, but it's not true they've said nothing.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 17, 2017)

And bizarrely the dispute is with their own party!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 17, 2017)

belboid said:


> Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell backs Birmingham bin strike
> 
> Corbyn has spoken out as well, supportively but in a rather vague way. They should say more, but it's not true they've said nothing.



McDonnell has supported 'strikes against austerity' it's true. But about a labour council:

- suspending trade union stewards
- threatening other workers with disciplinary action up to an including gross misconduct 
- invoking partial performance measures against strikers 
- hiring private contractors to try to break the strike 
- offering overtime to council workers if they want to empty the bins 
- most importantly renegaging on an ACAS deal struck with the union 


he's had nothing to say. Nothing. Ditto Jeremy. I understand two bin workers approached McDonnell at the TUC and politely asked if he could intervene or at least say something about the attempt by a labour council to break the workers and their union. 

Given the lock out move by the council - and the further raft of disciplinary proceedings announced in letters to workers over the weekend - airy statements about 'austerity' don't go anywhere near 
far enough for the workers involved.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 17, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> pretty good turnout for  a Sunday morning in Brum



It was pretty good wasn't it, some good speakers. 

Do you know the name of the band who were playing?


----------



## belboid (Sep 17, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> McDonnell has supported 'strikes against austerity' it's true. But about a labour council:
> 
> - suspending trade union stewards
> - threatening other workers with disciplinary action up to an including gross misconduct
> ...


Of course he needs to say more now.  But your claim that he had never said anything wasn't true.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 20, 2017)

judge just summing up in the court case but it's not looking positive


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 20, 2017)

This Saturday


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 20, 2017)

and final bit of spamming (for the next few hours)

Attention all artists/graphic designers etc

As you are probably aware the binworkers in Brum are on strike after a disgusting attack on their wages and working conditions.

We're after the following

1) A logo design which we can use for banners, t-shirts, badges etc for people to show their support of the strike (i.e. an original design for which we won't recieve letters from lawyers!)

2) Posters - extolling support and solidarity with the binworkers - to be mass printed for use as placards, to stick in people's windows, on bins etc

3) 'Street art'/graffiti etc - please just go out and create pieces! Send us photos once you have done!

4) Banner drops - create banners, hang 'em from bridges over major roads etc, take photos and share on social media

Victory to the binworkers!


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 20, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> judge just summing up in the court case but it's not looking positive



he's giving it all the 'neither side looks good, both sides come out badly' bollocks

EDIT: correction - apparently the judge is slagging off the council officers and Clancy/councillors/executive, not Unite.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 20, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> and final bit of spamming (for the next few hours)
> 
> Attention all artists/graphic designers etc
> 
> ...



I can help with posters/t-shirt/leaflet/badge design once you've got a logo design.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 20, 2017)

OK, judge properly laying in the Council now. Looking positive


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 20, 2017)

Kathryn Stanczyszyn (@stanchers) on Twitter

good for updates


----------



## cybershot (Sep 20, 2017)

'Bearded Broz' are back to clean up city 

Love how they time this when the bin men will have to do two weeks of solid working anyway before they can go back on strike! 

Idiots.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 20, 2017)




----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 20, 2017)

Judge grants Unite injunction against BCC. Full trial in November!


----------



## cybershot (Sep 20, 2017)

On the plus side for residents, didn't Unite say they would put off further strike action if injuction was granted.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 20, 2017)

cybershot said:


> On the plus side for residents, didn't Unite say they would put off further strike action if injuction was granted.



Yup


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 20, 2017)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Workers <a href="News about #BirminghamBinStrike on Twitter">#BirminghamBinStrike</a> cheer as they leave <a href="News about #HighCourt on Twitter">#HighCourt</a> after judge gives injunction against <a href="Bham City Council (@BhamCityCouncil) on Twitter">@BhamCityCouncil</a> redundancy notices <a href="BBC WM 95.6 (@bbcwm) on Twitter">@bbcwm</a> <a href="Kathryn Stanczyszyn on Twitter">pic.twitter.com/SasjEyPgJ9</a></p>&mdash; Kathryn Stanczyszyn (@stanchers) <a href="">September 20, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 20, 2017)

Excellent news


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 20, 2017)

Up the workers!


----------



## BCBlues (Sep 20, 2017)

Birmingham bin strike - this is where we stand now

Fair play to Unite and the workers


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 28, 2017)

new despicable actions by BCC

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...VXVaX_uaHWuxYEUNAIeLOs6vDo0zLVwU2WB9G5N54xzCQ


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 25, 2017)

nardy said:


> I'd sack the binmen tomorrow and recruit people who *would* work for the wages on offer. Of course the workers have a right to withdraw their labour. Likewise, the council have a right to withdraw their jobs.



Exactly. The strikers don't give a damn about the inconvenience they are causing the public they signed up to serve. It's all about themselves. If others are happy with the wages offered, then take them on.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 25, 2017)

Fuck off.


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Exactly. The strikers don't give a damn about the inconvenience they are causing the public they signed up to serve. It's all about themselves. If others are happy with the wages offered, then take them on.



Are you a Viz character?
"Happy Larry - The Reactionary Troll"
"Happy Larry - President of the Race to the Bottom Olympiad"
Or
"Happy Larry - Cunt".


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 25, 2017)

Ho/Bishie : Instead of being abusive, why not actually try and debate the issue under discussion and advise why you feel that Birmingham Council should not be allowed to "modernise the service and save £5m a year" thus saving ratepayers money, as they claim they want to?


----------



## baldrick (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Ho/Bishie : Instead of being abusive, why not actually try and debate the issue under discussion and advise why you feel that Birmingham Council should not be allowed to "modernise the service and save £5m a year" thus saving ratepayers money, as they claim they want to?


There isn't an issue that needs debating. The workers are right to do what they've done, end of.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Ho/Bishie : Instead of being abusive, why not actually try and debate the issue under discussion and advise why you feel that Birmingham Council should not be allowed to "modernise the service and save £5m a year" thus saving ratepayers money, as they claim they want to?



This isn't about saving ratepayers any money, that's just an excuse, and you're a massive fool if you believe them. Or have you not noticed that despite all the austerity over the past decade, people's bills are still going up?

Even if by some fluke degrading the quality of refuse disposal services (you get what you pay for, after all) actually results in lower rates, clean streets and people's livelihoods are more important than convenience. Not to mention that it will lead to the degradation of other services as well, resulting in an increasingly shitty experience of living in Birmingham overall.

It's clear that you don't actually work for a living, which is why you have no problems with workers being threatened with worse pay and contracts.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Ho/Bishie : Instead of being abusive, why not actually try and debate the issue under discussion and advise why you feel that Birmingham Council should not be allowed to "modernise the service and save £5m a year" thus saving ratepayers money, as they claim they want to?


Fuck off.


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 25, 2017)

NoXion said:


> This isn't about saving ratepayers any money,



Er, well the Union concerned obviously disagrees with you. They are claiming that it is all about job losses potentially totalling 120, which nobody seem to be denying would save an awful lot of ratepayers money. 

"The Unite union claims restructuring plans threaten the jobs of more than 120 staff"

What caused Birmingham's bin strike?


----------



## pesh (Oct 25, 2017)

Fuck off


----------



## NoXion (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Er, well the Union concerned obviously disagrees with you. They are claiming that it is all about job losses potentially totalling 120, which nobody seem to be denying would save an awful lot of ratepayers money.
> 
> "The Unite union claims restructuring plans threaten the jobs of more than 120 staff"
> 
> What caused Birmingham's bin strike?



The union are talking about job losses, they haven't said shit about saving money because that's not what a union is about. All the shit about saving money is coming from the council.

It all comes down to you believing the word of the bosses over that of the workers.


----------



## belboid (Oct 25, 2017)

Stop feeding the fucking troll


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry is stoat boy.


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 25, 2017)

NoXion said:


> The union are talking about job losses



So, in your world, if the Council reduce the number of persons employed by 120, as the Union fears, then no money will be saved?



Don't forget that if the Council does succeed in retrenching people, then the onus will be on them to show that the refuse can still be collected efficiently without the dismissed workers.

Have a great day.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> So, in your world, if the Council reduce the number of persons employed by 120, as the Union fears, then no money will be saved?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I said it wouldn't save the *ratepayers* any money you fucking illiterate. Or are you really naive enough to believe that any savings will be passed on by the council?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 25, 2017)

theres literally no point.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Ho/Bishie : Instead of being abusive, why not actually try and debate the issue under discussion and advise why you feel that Birmingham Council should not be allowed to "modernise the service and save £5m a year" thus saving ratepayers money, as they claim they want to?



There's 14 pages of discussion, you opted to quote no one and say everyone should be sacked!


----------



## J Ed (Oct 25, 2017)

Can we just have a Happy Larry thread where he bangs on about his various surface level reactionary banalities without disrupting otherwise interesting discussions elsewhere?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> So, in your world, if the Council reduce the number of persons employed by 120, as the Union fears, then no money will be saved?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget that if the Council does succeed in retrenching people, then the onus will be on them to show that the refuse can still be collected efficiently without the dismissed workers.



3 quick facts:

1. The council are not 'reducing the number of persons'. They are increasing the number of permanently employed staff. The council are proposing to make 120 staff at a higher grade redundant/surplus. They plan to hire more staff at a lower grades and deploy them differently. 
2. The council will not make any savings in the round from their proposals. They do however feel that they can limit their future liability from equal pay claims. 
3. Not one more bag will be emptied as a result of their proposals. Health and safety of the workers and the public will be impacted as a result of removing the grade 3 post and its responsibilites. 

I am afraid your posts are factually wrong and misconceive the entire nature of the dispute, the questions it poses and why it is an important dispute with wider ramifcations. I urge you to do some reading before embarrassing yourself further. 

Alternatively, feel free to come to Birmingham and I will happily facilitate a meeting with the Stewards where they can discuss your ideas with you in a full and frank manner.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> theres literally no point.



Well I found Smokeandsteam 's post to be informative, but I guess you're right on some level. I'll save my energy and see what he does next.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 25, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Well I found Smokeandsteam 's post to be informative, but I guess you're right on some level. I'll save my energy and see what he does next.


I'll be very suprised if he responds to that one. Classic mark of the troll. Doesn't respond to me either because it knows I'll simply tell him to suck his mum or something...so troll. Shits and giggles. Ignore it and see how long it takes to push the racist button for a rise imo


----------



## JimW (Oct 25, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> ...discuss your ideas with you in a full and frank manner.


If ever we had a poster in need of a full and frank discussion, serial bell-end Happy Larry is he.


----------



## The Octagon (Oct 25, 2017)

He'll take that post as an excuse for a whinge about the 'tolerant left', it's not even clever trollery, just by-the-numbers buzzwords and a keen desire to present as successful when he's probably wanking into some kitchen roll and giggling every time he hits Post Reply.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Exactly. The strikers don't give a damn about the inconvenience they are causing the public they signed up to serve. It's all about themselves. If others are happy with the wages offered, then take them on.



To quote one of my favourite song lyrics:

Why don't you kill yourself?
You ain't no use to no-one else.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2017)

The Octagon said:


> He'll take that post as an excuse for a whinge about the 'tolerant left', it's not even clever trollery, just by-the-numbers buzzwords and a keen desire to present as successful when he's probably wanking into some kitchen roll and giggling every time he hits Post Reply.



So basically, what you're saying is that he's ninjaboy?


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 26, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The council are not 'reducing the number of persons'.



They certainly are reducing the number of persons employed in the refuse collection department. The Council is offering to provide employment elsewhere within the Council, which is mighty good of them. Any reasonable person would be fairly satisfied at the lengths the Council is going to accommodate the workers made redundant.

You should really read up on the dispute before trying to present yourself as an authority on the subject. Your argument would have far more credibility if you actually quoted sources instead of your own "What I reckons".

As the BBC has reported :

"The Unite union claims restructuring plans threaten the jobs of more than 120 staff"

"It (the Council) said despite the posts going, all workers with an appropriate skills match would be offered new council jobs at the same pay grade.

They surely can't be fairer than that.

What caused Birmingham's bin strike?

"Not one more bag will be emptied as a result of their proposals. "

Has anyone said that this is the purpose of the redundancies? Of course not. The Council merely want to cut costs, which is their job.

"Health and safety of the workers and the public will be impacted"

The Strikers have already had this impact with flies and rats being extensively reported around the uncollected rubbish, so they obviously have little regard for public health.


----------



## BCBlues (Oct 26, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Your argument would have far more credibility if you actually quoted sources instead of your own "What I reckons".



Your argument would have far more credibility if you didn't quote "BBC" but instead took up Smokeandsteam offer to go have a chat with the stewards involved.


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 26, 2017)

And be like Smokeand steam and get only one side of the story?

No thanks.

Would you prefer a report from the Guardian which confirms that the jobs will be cut? :

"On Wednesday, Birmingham council voted to continue with plans to cut 106 jobs in a reorganisation of the waste management service that it hopes will save more than £5m a year."

"Hundreds of refuse workers have been on strike since June in a protest over job losses."

Birmingham bin strike could extend into next year


----------



## BCBlues (Oct 26, 2017)

Again you rely on mainstream media for your "facts"and dismiss the idea of actually talking to people involved as "one sided".

You really are pathetic.


----------



## JimW (Oct 26, 2017)

"workers with the appropriate skills match" - obvious to anyone but the sort of headbanger who thinks a council's job is to save money rather than provide a proper service.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 26, 2017)

can we just have a "fuck off" button at the next upgrade?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 26, 2017)

Happy Larry the famous line ‘better to say nothing and have people think you are an idiot than open your mouth and prove it’ has never been more true than in your case.

The smoking gun you’ve produced from the BBC and the Guardian - that there will be job cuts - is exactly what I said above. 120 grade 3 jobs will be cut.

The council have said that they will try to avoid redundancies it is true. But what your google search hasn’t told you is that that’s by offering these workers 3 hobsons choices - take a pay cut (the 200 grade 2 jobs I mentioned early, reducing their pay from about £22k to £18k) move into a time limited role, in other words defer the  redundancy for a few months and divide the workforce up round the council or they can apply for a band 3 job doing IT work which the council know many of the workers do not have the skills for and can therefore set them up to fail. Put simply (which I know will be useful for you) the offers to avoid redundancy are kicking the can down the road so workers can picked off one by one later.

My point about ‘not one more bag’ is quite important don't you think seeing as the proposals from the council are badged as ‘a service delivery improvement strategy’ and given you think they are doing such a decent thing? 

I would imagine that most people would imagine an improvement to their bin service would include more bag collection and a more regular service.  Their plans deliver none of this. It is a crude device to cut and downgrade work because of imminent equal pay cases.

The offer to come here and meet the workers stands but I’m not replying to any more idiotic posts.

Finally pal, I don’t need to do any more reading on the dispute. I live here. I know some of the lads involved personally. I’ve read the council propaganda and the minutes of their secret meetings and I’ve read the High Court judgement. you’ve responded with a google search and two brief overview articles written from London. Your making a total show of yourself


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 27, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> that there will be job cuts - is exactly what I said above.



Er, what you said is "The council are not 'reducing the number of persons". The Union is quoted quite plainly by both the BBC and Guardian as claiming that they are striking because the Councils proposals "threaten the jobs of more than 120 staff". So either they are lying, or you are. I will stick with the Unions version, rather than some anonymous poster on the internet who claims to "know it all" even though he/she submits only "what I reckons" and no confirmed source at all.

Your argument that the strikers are acting in the interests of an improved service are laughable and incredibly naive. The strikers have shown absolutely no consideration for the elderly and infirm and the health risks that they are exposing them to. It is the poor and needy that the Union is making suffer here, as they do not have the ability to get rid of excess rubbish whilst the wealthy simply pay someone to dispose of theirs.

The Birmingham Council is a majority Labour Council and will naturally take into consideration the interest of the Trade Unions, which is the Labour Party's major source of funds. In this case, the Council has had the guts to stand up to Union bullying and do its job, which in case you've forgotten, is to save ratepayers money by not employing more people in the refuse department than is required to do the job. Their actions are a credit to the Labour Party and have certainly shown the UK public that Labour is NOT merely  a Union lackey and will oppose Union bullying in the best interests of both the Birmingham and UK public


----------



## baldrick (Oct 27, 2017)

Just fuck off.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 27, 2017)

'Union bullies', check. Lackeys', check. Bingo card looking good for a full house. 

Just boring though.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 27, 2017)

Holding honest taxpayers to ransom.


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Oct 27, 2017)

They'll be driving around in Ferraris next and chucking pound coins at the elderly as they die in foetid pools of used nappies and sabre-toothed maggots. These bloody workers. Hang the lot of 'em.
Happy Larry would sort them out. He could tidy up the whole of Birmingham with one hand tied behind his back and still be home in time to knock one out over a photoshopped image of a naked Jacob Rees-Mogg slaughtering a picket line with a Gatling gun.
Larry for Leader!


----------



## Athos (Oct 27, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Er, what you said is "The council are not 'reducing the number of persons". The Union is quoted quite plainly by both the BBC and Guardian as claiming that they are striking because the Councils proposals "threaten the jobs of more than 120 staff". So either they are lying, or you are. I will stick with the Unions version, rather than some anonymous poster on the internet who claims to "know it all" even though he/she submits only "what I reckons" and no confirmed source at all.
> 
> Your argument that the strikers are acting in the interests of an improved service are laughable and incredibly naive. The strikers have shown absolutely no consideration for the elderly and infirm and the health risks that they are exposing them to. It is the poor and needy that the Union is making suffer here, as they do not have the ability to get rid of excess rubbish whilst the wealthy simply pay someone to dispose of theirs.
> 
> The Birmingham Council is a majority Labour Council and will naturally take into consideration the interest of the Trade Unions, which is the Labour Party's major source of funds. In this case, the Council has had the guts to stand up to Union bullying and do its job, which in case you've forgotten, is to save ratepayers money by not employing more people in the refuse department than is required to do the job. Their actions are a credit to the Labour Party and have certainly shown the UK public that Labour is NOT merely  a Union lackey and will oppose Union bullying in the best interests of both the Birmingham and UK public



I'd begun to type out a line-by-line refutation of this, but, on reflection, I can more economically brigade my criticisms thus: you fucking bellend.


----------



## JimW (Oct 27, 2017)

Athos said:


> I'd begun to type out a line-by-line refutation of this, but, on reflection, I can more economically brigade my criticisms thus: you fucking bellend.


With a swingeing cut like that you might want to considered standing for the council


----------



## maomao (Oct 27, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Er, what you said is "The council are not 'reducing the number of persons". The Union is quoted quite plainly by both the BBC and Guardian as claiming that they are striking because the Councils proposals "threaten the jobs of more than 120 staff". So either they are lying, or you are. I will stick with the Unions version, rather than some anonymous poster on the internet who claims to "know it all" even though he/she submits only "what I reckons" and no confirmed source at all.
> 
> Your argument that the strikers are acting in the interests of an improved service are laughable and incredibly naive. The strikers have shown absolutely no consideration for the elderly and infirm and the health risks that they are exposing them to. It is the poor and needy that the Union is making suffer here, as they do not have the ability to get rid of excess rubbish whilst the wealthy simply pay someone to dispose of theirs.
> 
> The Birmingham Council is a majority Labour Council and will naturally take into consideration the interest of the Trade Unions, which is the Labour Party's major source of funds. In this case, the Council has had the guts to stand up to Union bullying and do its job, which in case you've forgotten, is to save ratepayers money by not employing more people in the refuse department than is required to do the job. Their actions are a credit to the Labour Party and have certainly shown the UK public that Labour is NOT merely  a Union lackey and will oppose Union bullying in the best interests of both the Birmingham and UK public


If you're posts presented anything resembling a properly put together argument people would argue with you. That's what we're all here for. Pointless arguments. No-one's giving you the time of day because you're an arsehole and your posts are shit. Just fuck off cunt.


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 27, 2017)

Athos said:


> I'd begun to type out a line-by-line refutation of this



...and then realised you have absolutely no clue how you would refute it, so resorted to the usual refuge of the clueless, mindless abuse.


----------



## Athos (Oct 27, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> ...and then realised you have absolutely no clue how you would refute it, so resorted to the usual refuge of the clueless, mindless abuse.



It's just too stupid for me to waste my time on.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 29, 2017)

Jesus wept. 

Bin strike CEO’s extraordinary ‘let them eat cake’ email to staff


----------



## cybershot (Oct 29, 2017)

And. 

Birmingham Council cutting bin worker pay – pays chauffeur for council leader


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Oct 29, 2017)

Cue Happy Larry telling us how the binmen  could just as easily go on holidays or hire drivers if only they'd stop fucking moaning and get their heads down.


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 30, 2017)

*


cybershot said:



			Bin strike CEO’s extraordinary ‘let them eat cake’ email to staff
		
Click to expand...


"Skwawkbox — an embarrassment to the Left"

Skwawkbox — an embarrassment to the Left – Bob Pitt – Medium
*
*When it comes to fake news, Skwawkbox makes the national tabloids look like amateurs.*


----------



## cybershot (Nov 24, 2017)

Following Kathryn Stanczyszyn (@stanchers) on Twitter on twitter and it looks like a deal may well have been struck before next week's court case. Bham City Council come out of this looking a shambles, meeting starts late, no report to see until the start.

looks like bin men keeping their jobs, although it's 'new role' apparently. Report also says deal 'was struck' back in August and additional strikes need not have happened, that saw bill rise to £6m. Twat face Lisa Trickett says the proposal is ‘cost neutral’


----------



## cybershot (Nov 25, 2017)

Exclusive: Birmingham CC ‘total climbdown’ in new bin-strike deal


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## cybershot (Nov 25, 2017)

And unite agree to deal. No court case. We move on. New roles begin in February. A win for the workers.


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## Juno4000 (Nov 25, 2017)

In some countries the garbage truck drives around and it is the task of citizens to throw stuff in the back, usually the shop staff especially in city centre. Something to be wary about.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 25, 2017)

Juno4000 said:


> In some countries the garbage truck drives around and it is the task of citizens to throw stuff in the back, usually the shop staff especially in city centre. Something to be wary about.



I think most commercial waste in the UK is collected by various private companies, separate to the council run services (be that 'in house' or contracted out), certainly around here domestic collections are operated by the council 'in house', but there's at least 3 or 4 private operators doing commercial collections.


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## baldrick (Nov 25, 2017)

Was this the original deal that the council backed out of?

Either way, great news. Pleased for them, a good outcome and must be a big relief coming up to Christmas.


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## cybershot (Nov 25, 2017)

baldrick said:


> Was this the original deal that the council backed out of?
> 
> Either way, great news. Pleased for them, a good outcome and must be a big relief coming up to Christmas.



More or less. Change of job title and added responsibilities.


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## cybershot (Nov 30, 2017)

£12 discount on garden waste next year to EXISTING garden waste customers, offered as a good will gesture.

I'm sure this will go down well for those who don't have gardens who would rather see the discount applied to next years council tax (which will no doubt go up by a record %)


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## William of Walworth (Dec 3, 2017)

We were in Birmingham yesterday and talking over pints with a very-Union-committed festival friend (has always lived in Birmingham, not a Council employee though -- like me, he's PCS) and he said he was pretty happy because it was a good victory for Unite. 

But also, he said, the Council's handling of it had been riddled with incompetence throughout, and the whole dispute could and should have been settled ages ago of BCC hadn't been so stubborn.

Spot on to Unite and the workers for holding out, I say


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## Slo-mo (Dec 3, 2017)

cybershot said:


> photos and any visitors would have thought the city was a right shit tip.



Thought?


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## Happy Larry (Dec 4, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> But also, he said, the Council's handling of it had been riddled with incompetence throughout



Did you really expect him to claim otherwise?

Instead of "trashing" Birmingham and selfishly inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of people, the Union members should have done what the rest of us do when we're not happy with our employer......find another job. If they can't, then they should have more respect and perhaps even a little smidgin of gratitude towards their current employer.


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## ddraig (Dec 4, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Did you really expect him to claim otherwise?
> 
> Instead of "trashing" Birmingham and selfishly inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of people, the Union members should have done what the rest of us do when we're not happy with our employer......find another job. If they can't, then they should have more respect and perhaps even a little smidgin of gratitude towards their current employer.


0/10
Up the workers


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## Happy Larry (Dec 4, 2017)

I think you'll find that the management of the Labour Party controlled Birmingham Council consider themselves "workers" too. And rightly so.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 4, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Did you really expect him to claim otherwise?
> 
> Instead of "trashing" Birmingham and selfishly inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of people, the Union members should have done what the rest of us do when we're not happy with our employer......find another job. If they can't, then they should have more respect and perhaps even a little smidgin of gratitude towards their current employer.



Let me guess, *you *got on your bike and looked for work?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 4, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Did you really expect him to claim otherwise?
> 
> Instead of "trashing" Birmingham and selfishly inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of people, the Union members should have done what the rest of us do when we're not happy with our employer......find another job. If they can't, then they should have more respect and perhaps even a little smidgin of gratitude towards their current employer.


Go fuck yourself.


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## ElizabethofYork (Dec 6, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> If they can't, then they should have more respect and perhaps even a little smidgin of gratitude towards their current employer.



Whilst tugging their forelocks.


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## Happy Larry (Dec 7, 2017)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Whilst tugging their forelocks.



Get over your feelings of inferiority. Working to the best of ones ability gives most people (you may obviously be an exception) a feeling of satisfaction and pride in themselves......not to mention success and advancement, in many cases.

"There are no shortcuts to lasting success.Hard work is the single greatest competitive advantage.  Hard work is always the baseline of great achievements. And I don’t think these successful entrepreneurs-turned-naysayers have defied the odds through casual effort."

Hard Work: What’s It Good For?


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## krtek a houby (Dec 7, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Get over your feelings of inferiority. Working to the best of ones ability gives most people (you may obviously be an exception) a feeling of satisfaction and pride in themselves......not to mention success and advancement, in many cases.
> 
> "There are no shortcuts to lasting success.Hard work is the single greatest competitive advantage.  Hard work is always the baseline of great achievements. And I don’t think these successful entrepreneurs-turned-naysayers have defied the odds through casual effort."
> 
> Hard Work: What’s It Good For?



Who the hell do you think you are? Alan fucking Sugar?

Advancement? In what? Being a lecturing, patronising bore?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 7, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Get over your feelings of inferiority. Working to the best of ones ability gives most people (you may obviously be an exception) a feeling of satisfaction and pride in themselves......not to mention success and advancement, in many cases.
> 
> "There are no shortcuts to lasting success.Hard work is the single greatest competitive advantage.  Hard work is always the baseline of great achievements. And I don’t think these successful entrepreneurs-turned-naysayers have defied the odds through casual effort."
> 
> Hard Work: What’s It Good For?


Go fuck yourself.


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## ElizabethofYork (Dec 7, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Get over your feelings of inferiority



Piss off.  I don't have any feelings of inferiority.  

The rest of your post is mind numbing "work sets you free" nazi bollocks.


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## seventh bullet (Dec 7, 2017)

He's enjoying all this attention.


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## Happy Larry (Dec 8, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> Who the hell do you think you are? Alan fucking Sugar?



He is certainly a role model. Self employed from an early age, building up a successful business. Being involved with a great soccer team. Having a successful TV show and writing best selling books.

He's a hard worker, successful and intelligent.

It's no wonder that you dislike him. You probably don't have a single thing in common.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 8, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> He is certainly a role model. Self employed from an early age, building up a successful business. Being involved with a great soccer team. Having a successful TV show and writing best selling books.
> 
> He's a hard worker, successful and intelligent.
> 
> It's no wonder that you dislike him. You probably don't have a single thing in common.



Go hang your bollocks off a lamp-post


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## Silas Loom (Dec 8, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> He is certainly a role model. Self employed from an early age, building up a successful business. Being involved with a great soccer team. Having a successful TV show and writing best selling books.
> 
> He's a hard worker, successful and intelligent.
> 
> It's no wonder that you dislike him. You probably don't have a single thing in common.



Calls for you to be banned are out of order, but I’m definitely seeing this as a jeu d’esprit now. No-one could believe all this of Sugar: a wide boy who happened to make a couple of shrewd moves in the crappier end of consumer electronics and then made a dozen stupid ones, the Spurs chairman who lost us a decade at least, a man so reduced to self-parody that he now plays the role of a businessman on a scripted game show. You over-egg your pudding.


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## ElizabethofYork (Dec 8, 2017)

LOL! 

I was just about willing to believe that Larry was a real person, but that guff about Alan Sugar has totally convinced me that he's playing the part of a Daily Mail reading blimp.


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## Sapphireblue (Dec 12, 2017)

they could just be American and think they're talking about Alabama. *cough* 'soccer'


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## Dogsauce (Dec 13, 2017)

Sapphireblue said:


> they could just be American and think they're talking about Alabama. *cough* 'soccer'


 
I've assumed they were some kind of ex-pat due to posting times, that and not having a fucking clue about anything, instead crafting an alternative reality based on tabloid tropes and classic pub bore bullshit. They've already done 'massive tellies' ffs. It'll be free cars for immigrants next.

Either that or someone pulling people's chains, but not in a very imaginative way. The proper loons are much more fun to play with than this weak shit.


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## Blackbean (Feb 8, 2018)

SaskiaJayne said:


> Happy Larry is stoat boy.


 
Happy Larry had never heard of Urban 75 before the day he registered here, so both yourself and the Mods (who banned him for being a returned banned poster) are lying.

Not a great reflection on this website. No doubt the Mods got tired of being pestered by those who didn't like his political views and (as they do) complained he was a troll/racist/devil incarnate. The Mods, knowing that they couldn't ban him for these reasons, as there was no evidence thereof, took the cowards way out and made up the fact that he was a previously banned user, probably using as their "excuse" the abovementioned quote.

Just as Reece-Mogg found out recently at UWE, where extreme left wing students wearing hoodies and masks tried to prevent him speaking, free speech is at risk from extreme left wing haters who want to label anyone who disagrees with their views as a fascist/racist/bad person.


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## Sue (Feb 8, 2018)

You seem to know a lot about it for a new member, Blackbean. How is that?


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## cupid_stunt (Feb 8, 2018)

Sue said:


> You seem to know a lot about it for a new member, Blackbean. How is that?



Did you need to ask that?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 8, 2018)

Blackbean said:


> Happy Larry had never heard of Urban 75 before the day he registered here, so both yourself and the Mods (who banned him for being a returned banned poster) are lying.
> 
> Not a great reflection on this website. No doubt the Mods got tired of being pestered by those who didn't like his political views and (as they do) complained he was a troll/racist/devil incarnate. The Mods, knowing that they couldn't ban him for these reasons, as there was no evidence thereof, took the cowards way out and made up the fact that he was a previously banned user, probably using as their "excuse" the abovementioned quote.
> 
> Just as Reece-Mogg found out recently at UWE, where extreme left wing students wearing hoodies and masks tried to prevent him speaking, free speech is at risk from extreme left wing haters who want to label anyone who disagrees with their views as a fascist/racist/bad person.


There are many well thought out, considered and nuanced replies possible to this.

But I'm just gonna go with "fuck off".


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## cupid_stunt (Feb 8, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> But I'm just gonna go with "fuck off".



He's been fucked-off.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 8, 2018)

Sue said:


> You seem to know a lot about it for a new member, Blackbean. How is that?


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## cybershot (Jul 25, 2018)

Can't find much more on this currently, will deserve it's own thread when more is known, but now looks like the council are picking their next department to fuck over.


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## Smokeandsteam (Jul 26, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Can't find much more on this currently, will deserve it's own thread when more is known, but now looks like the council are picking their next department to fuck over.




There is a lobby of the BCC Cabinet Meeting next Tuesday at 9.30-11.00. The care workers are on strike on the day.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 30, 2018)

Edit: about 3 months too late!


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## BCBlues (Jul 31, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Can't find much more on this currently, will deserve it's own thread when more is known, but now looks like the council are picking their next department to fuck over.




Carers strike against plans which would 'reduce them to poverty'

Carers strike against plans which would 'reduce them to poverty'

I've dropped this in Care in the UK A Disgrace thread too. Sorry dunno how to link a thread.


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## cybershot (Aug 31, 2018)

Dear lord. Birmingham city council are excelling themselves when it comes to ineptness.


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## cybershot (Dec 22, 2018)

Andddddd we’re back. 

Waste collection contingency plans announced | Birmingham City Council

Apparently non union or members of other unions were given one off payment bonuses. Birmingham city council are are like the fawlty towers. It would be funny if they weren’t the biggest sized council in Europe complain constantly of lack of money and do shit like this, which will then cause them ever more grief.


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## cybershot (Jan 15, 2019)

I got my first real six-string
Bought it at the five-and-dime
Played it 'til my fingers bled
Was the summer of 2017


Live updates - bin collectors set to STRIKE as waste piles up


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## BCBlues (Jan 15, 2019)

It's already piling up before the full on strike.

This council of ours needs to show some respect to a group of workers that endure a heavy physical workload in a dangerous environment ie a great big crushing machine in front of you and traffic behind you.

Gonna be a long hard winter in Brum. I'm glad I've got a Cat.


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## cybershot (Jan 15, 2019)

We had our first collection today for four weeks and this was before the full on strike so lord knows how bad it will get with these new routes which were already failing. 

Apparently the new contingency is one collection every two weeks. On your normal recycling day. However no one ever pays attention to these so people will still put. Ins out as normal.


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## gawkrodger (Jan 15, 2019)

and in the Homecare workers strike and it really highlights the shamble of a council BCC is


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## Smokeandsteam (Jan 15, 2019)

A labour council, a labour council, scuttling around the city handing out redundancy notices etc etc.....


And not a peep from Jeremy and the gang about it either


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## gawkrodger (Jan 15, 2019)

Though one cabinet member has shown some backbone

City council waste chief in shock resignation over bins dispute


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## Smokeandsteam (Jan 15, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> Though one cabinet member has shown some backbone
> 
> City council waste chief in shock resignation over bins dispute



Aye. It’s the other hundred odd who are the problem. 

Let’s remember with the refuse crews they are using Tory anti trade union legislation. With the care workers they are using the foulest Tory anti worker legislation. They are despicable.


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## gawkrodger (Jan 15, 2019)

would people be interested in me posting the email mailouts Unison are sending out re: the various industrial actions at the moment? they're pretty good


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## Smokeandsteam (Jan 16, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> would people be interested in me posting the email mailouts Unison are sending out re: the various industrial actions at the moment? they're pretty good



Definitely


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## BCBlues (Jan 16, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Definitely



Yeah they would be great to see


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## BCBlues (Jan 16, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> would people be interested in me posting the email mailouts Unison are sending out re: the various industrial actions at the moment? they're pretty good



Above post meant for this one sorry


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## redsquirrel (Jan 16, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> would people be interested in me posting the email mailouts Unison are sending out re: the various industrial actions at the moment? they're pretty good


Totally.


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## cybershot (Jan 16, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> would people be interested in me posting the email mailouts Unison are sending out re: the various industrial actions at the moment? they're pretty good


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## gawkrodger (Jan 16, 2019)

ok. Here's the latest (18th) one. They've been sent out for about 2-3 weeks now. Straight C+P. If I get a chance at the weekend I'll post a selection of some of the previous.



> *To: Members of the Birmingham Labour Group
> Birmingham MPs
> Members of the Birmingham Labour Party who support UNISON
> Other trade unions
> ...


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## gawkrodger (Jan 16, 2019)

is their a thread for the homecare workers strike? If not, we should expand this thread to a general BCC strike related thread


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## Smokeandsteam (Jan 16, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> is their a thread for the homecare workers strike? If not, we should expand this thread to a general BCC strike related thread



I’m not aware of one and just done a search and nothing came up


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## BCBlues (Jan 17, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> is their a thread for the homecare workers strike? If not, we should expand this thread to a general BCC strike related thread



Yeah I think a mod could add /Care Workers to the thread title. Their plight is the same as the bin workers after all. editor


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## gawkrodger (Jan 17, 2019)

events coming up

*This Saturday 19th *
Shard End Ward meet at Toby Carvery, Chester Rd, B36 0AG Birmingham 10:30

Following last weekend's leaflettling of dep. council leader Cllr Brigid Jones ward, this weekend is council leader Cllr Ian Ward

'This week the Leader of the Council Cllr Ian Ward led the vote to impose huge pay cuts on some of the lowest paid council employees. We are going to his ward to drop leaflets and to ask residents if they feel he has Labour values and to ask them to send him a letter. We ask you to join us as together we are stronger.'
*
Tuesday Jan 29th 18:30
Birmingham & Midlands Institute, Margaret Street, Birmingham, B3 3BS
*
Join the TUC in the Midlands as we host a solidarity rally for the Homecare Workers of Birmingham, who have been in dispute for over a year and have taken almost 50 days of strike action during that time.

Come and hear from leading trade unionists and the workers themselves. Bring your banners! Show your support to these inspirational workers.

Speakers include
Dave Prentis
Unison General Secretary
Mark Serwotka
TUC President & PCS General Secretary

*Hardship fund*

Click here to support Birmingham Home Care Strike organised by UNISON Birmingham


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## cybershot (Jan 21, 2019)

Leaked emails accuse Birmingham council leader, officers over bin-strike


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## BCBlues (Jan 24, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Leaked emails accuse Birmingham council leader, officers over bin-strike



I wondered what had happened to the ACAS talks Monday gone but a link at the bottom of the above article states that it was put off as Brum City Council "weren't ready". It just strengthens Mr Mahmoods view that the dispute is deliberately being drawn out to grind the service down so it can be outsourced.


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## gawkrodger (Jan 24, 2019)

another solidarity leafletting and letter collection event this weekend



> 10:30 Saturday
> Meet
> The Farcroft Pub
> Rookery Rd, B21 Birmingham, United Kingdom
> ...


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## Smokeandsteam (Jan 30, 2019)

Went to the meeting last night. Not a bad turnout given the shit weather although it did seem dominated by union full timers (the panel especially where no homecare worker spoke).

Encouragingly the campaign is being stepped up in the backyard of the labour council leaders responsible for the job cuts and attack on workers contracts and hours of work. Further sessions have been planned as per the crumpled sheet below


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## cybershot (Feb 4, 2019)




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## redsquirrel (Feb 5, 2019)

Good luck comrades.


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## cybershot (Feb 8, 2019)

Bin workers 'offered £3k' to end strike

Council 'backtracking on bins deal'


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## gawkrodger (Feb 12, 2019)

Unite cries foul as Birmingham bin talks collapse within minutes


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## BCBlues (Feb 14, 2019)

Unite statement after Birmingham bin strike chaos court decision Unite statement after Birmingham bin strike chaos court decision

Unbelievable that the judge is happy for our refuse workers and the public at massive risk

Full on strike looming I reckon until the proper hearing


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## gawkrodger (Feb 19, 2019)

Bin strike started again today.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 19, 2019)

Forgot to post this earlier. 

Breaking: WMids Labour refers Birmingham council leader/deputy to NEC over care-worker and bin disputes


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## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> Bin strike started again today.



I was down on the picket line at the Redfern depot. Excellent support from the shopfloor and a sense that the clowns running the council - both the council leaders and the real leaders - are on the backfoot. Again.


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## cybershot (Feb 20, 2019)

Saw one bin lorry today going to extreme lengths to not do some work travelling along the A45, by crashing into another car. 

*obviously in jest, clearly just a bog standard road accident


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## Smokeandsteam (Feb 20, 2019)

Letter circulating now amongst Labour councillors:

'Mutiny' - council leaders face revolt amid bins chaos

Looks like the ongoing failure to impose democratic control over unelected officers - who are running the show and demanding confrontation with the unions - will claim another council leader in Brum.


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## Smokeandsteam (Feb 22, 2019)

Striking Birmingham Bin Workers and Home Care workers together on the picket lines today. Fabulous stuff.


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## gawkrodger (Mar 5, 2019)

two Unison updates. Do we have the most farcical Local Authority in the country?



> News from the Regional Secretary about the UNISON Refuse Workers Dispute #2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gawkrodger (Mar 5, 2019)

the above was this morning. The below has just popped into my inbox



> * all members of the Labour Group
> cc: Birmingham MPs and supporters of UNISON across Birmingham
> Correction to the story on the Birmingham Live website*
> The story on the Birmingham Live website quotes the Leader as saying at Cabinet today:
> ...


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 5, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> two Unison updates. Do we have the most farcical Local Authority in the country?



I take it this is a rhetorical question?


----------



## gawkrodger (Mar 5, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I take it this is a rhetorical question?



As I work with BCC departments everyday, please do not get me started!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 6, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> As I work with BCC departments everyday, please do not get me started!



From what I hear the day to day running of the council _*and *_the political decision making has been captured by unelected officers.

Now this is either true in which case the elected leadership is weak and incompetent or it’s untrue and the war on the workforce and it’s unions has been intiated by the labour group. Both scenarios suggest that they are incapable of running a bath never mind the biggest council in Europe in a deindustrialised city.

It’s the Bore legacy. He surrounded himself with bureaucratic clowns/inferior loyalists and religious bigots and here we are....


----------



## purenarcotic (Mar 6, 2019)

This is such a shambolic shit show, the level of incompetence is unreal.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 6, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> From what I hear the day to day running of the council _*and *_the political decision making has been captured by unelected officers.
> 
> Now this is either true in which case the elected leadership is weak and incompetent ..


I don't know about Birmingham but I do think this is a credible scenario. I'd even give the councillors some leeway in that this transfer of power to unelected officers has been going on for some time and is now often quite deeply embedded and difficult to dislodge. But if unelected officers are making political decisions the councillors should be publicising this and attacking it.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 6, 2019)

Council Leader, Ian Ward, has the air of man who’s worked for 40 years for an accountancy firm in Sutton Coldfield and only reached the lowest levels of junior management. Deputy Brigid Jones looks like a drama studies teacher who was in the SWP for too long. 

There needs to be a massive clean out of the Labour stable in Birmingham because the current one is rancid


----------



## gawkrodger (Mar 6, 2019)

homecare workers update



> *all members of the Labour Group
> cc: Birmingham MPs and supporters of UNISON across Birmingham*
> 
> People have been interested in the emails about the refuse workers’ dispute but I’ve received a lot of enquiries about what is happening with the homecare workers’ dispute. So here is an update. We’ve been silent for a reason.
> ...


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 6, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Council Leader, Ian Ward, has the air of man who’s worked for 40 years for an accountancy firm in Sutton Coldfield and only reached the lowest levels of junior management. Deputy Brigid Jones looks like a drama studies teacher who was in the SWP for too long.
> 
> There needs to be a massive clean out of the Labour stable in Birmingham because the current one is rancid


Oh no doubt my point was that even when "decent" councillors are elected their efforts are often frustrated by unelected council officers (and policy). Which is why Labour's decision to ban it's council from passing illegal budgets was so wrong.


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## gawkrodger (Mar 6, 2019)

details for the now Unison bin workers strike!




*PLEASE FORWARD TO THOSE WHO MAY BE INTERESTED*
If you want to come to show solidarity with our refuse worker members who are striking for justice and parity with members of other unions, below are the details of the pickets. 

All pickets start at 05:00 and will run until around 10:30

Lifford Lane Depot
Edbury Road 
B30 3JJ

Perry Barr Depot
96, Holford Drive
B42 2TU

Montague Street Depot
B9 4BA

Tyseley depot 
272, Kings Road
B11 2AB

In solidarity
*Ravi Subramanian
Regional Secretary*


----------



## BigTom (Mar 6, 2019)

What dates?


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## gawkrodger (Mar 6, 2019)

BigTom said:


> What dates?



Sorry, this Friday


----------



## BCBlues (Mar 9, 2019)

Birmingham bin strike called OFF - this is why

This looks positive for those blanked out earlier by the Council.

Any updates on the Unison front gawkrodger ?


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## gawkrodger (Mar 11, 2019)

Unite Bin workers have accepted a deal.


----------

