# Citylink - the worst courier company in London, bar none.



## editor (Jun 11, 2011)

You know that heart-sinking feeling when you order something and then you get the notification saying it's going to be delivered by fucking Citylink?

Every time - and I mean _every_ time - something is due to be delivered by them it ends up a ton of grief. 

You can sit in your house in _total silence_ for the entire 24 hours and still they'll claim that they attempted delivery. 

And they've just done it again to me. Amazon - stop using them for fuck's sake. They're SHIT. 

Here's me ranting about them three years ago, Clearly, nothing has changed. 

http://www.urban75.org/blog/citylink-couriers-useless-lying-wankers/


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## editor (Jun 11, 2011)

Mind you, I do feel slightly better for the fact that if you type in "citylink couriers" into Google, the number one result is my "Citylink Couriers: useless, lying wankers" post.

*rant over for the evening


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## dirtyfruit (Jun 11, 2011)

That's the couriers who "claimed" they'd tried to deliver to mine twice this week. And I was in practically all day everyday!

Have agreed to be in all Monday but maybe I shouldn't get my hopes up


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## Hocus Eye. (Jun 11, 2011)

Parcel Force are just the same. They slip a card through your letterbox saying "sorry you were out", even though you are in all day. At least with PF you can go and collect the parcel from the depot once you have allowed them time to get back there. I guess in both cases, it is the driver having to meet a difficult schedule to get around his round in the working day. If they are overloaded that day, they skip a few drops to complete the round and go home. In most areas of work, cut-backs have meant that fewer staff are being used to do a greater amount of work.


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## spanglechick (Jun 11, 2011)

citylink also have depots - although they are few and far between.

The real cunts are DX - my bank uses them, and istr glastonbury or someone does too. No depots.


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## scifisam (Jun 11, 2011)

I've had problems with Citylink too. Their depot is also miles away. Parcelforce have always been fine for me - and fortunately amazon delivers my stuff via Parcelforce. Course, it helps that I live opposite a sorting office so am, er, sorted if they don't deliver my parcel when I'm home.


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## trashpony (Jun 11, 2011)

I had a row with Citylink once where the woman on the phone had the courier on the other line who was swearing blind he'd put a card through the door. Only he said the door was green which it isn't. The woman was saying 'are you sure it's not green?'. FFS I know what colour the sodding door is. 

Because I now live in the arse end of nowhere John Lewis use CityLink to deliver here and they have fucked up every single delivery I've had


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## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Ugh Citylink!

It got to a point a few a years ago where I was asking companies/sellers before buying who they used. I've never had a good experience with them - times where I was in and a card was just left, times where it wasn't clear where they had actually left the parcel, having to take a whole day of work to be in for a re-delivery, won't redeliver to another address, collections from depots in the middle of nowhere, etc.

At least if its sent by Parcelforce or Royal Mail, I seem to be able to organise a re-delivery easy, to another address, or pick it up from the local post or delivery office.


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## claphamboy (Jun 11, 2011)

The only one I've ever had problems with are Parcel Farce, luckily they don't seem to be used by many suppliers.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 11, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Parcel Force are just the same. They slip a card through your letterbox saying "sorry you were out", .


 
Ha ha they did that with me as I was right by the door, which I opened. They didn't even have my parcel. 

City link gave a guitar I ordered to my next door neighbor without even leaving a card or anything despite the fact that I was in all day waiting for it. I have no idea what so ever how or why that happened.


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## Bungle73 (Jun 11, 2011)

I've had it from CityLink too (although that was a while ago and they've been fine since then).  I watched as the driver walked to the end of my drive, tap something into his little PDA then get back into his van and driver off.  Next thing I know it's come up as a "failed delivery" on the online tracking! He didn't leave a card.  And before you ask, I didn't know he was going to drive away otherwise I would have gone out to him, and he didn't park his van in front of our house.

This was an unmarked white van btw (although the tracking was through CityLink) so I don't know if they were using a subcontractor or what.

I've ordered stuff extensively online and never had any other trouble with any other courier.



Hocus Eye. said:


> I guess in both cases, it is the driver having to meet a difficult schedule to get around his round in the working day. If they are overloaded that day, they skip a few drops to complete the round and go home. In most areas of work, cut-backs have meant that fewer staff are being used to do a greater amount of work.


Apparently they do it so they have to go back on another day and can claim the overtime.


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## Mr Smin (Jun 11, 2011)

Get used to it:


> Somewhere in the Netherlands a postwoman is in trouble. Bad health, snow and ice and a degree of chaos in her personal life have left her months behind on her deliveries. She rents a privatised ex-council flat with her partner and so many crates of mail have built up in the hallway that it’s getting hard to move around. Twice a week one of the private mail companies she works for, Selektmail, drops off three or four crates of letters, magazines and catalogues. She sorts and delivers the fresh crates but the winter backlog is tough to clear.


http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n09/james-meek/in-the-sorting-office


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## trashpony (Jun 11, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ha ha they did that with me as I was right by the door, which I opened. They didn't even have my parcel.
> 
> City link gave a guitar I ordered to my next door neighbor without even leaving a card or anything despite the fact that I was in all day waiting for it. I have no idea what so ever how or why that happened.



They left my new expensive kitchen bins behind the gate next to the house where I keep the bins. I didn't find them until I went to put something in the bin. No card obviously


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 11, 2011)

There are three possibilities I suppose:

1. Driver doesn't have parcel at all so has to leave card, slipping it in ninjalike so you don't go down to collect.
2. Driver doesn't even go to your location so has to lie about leaving a card.
3. Driver has your parcel and goes to your house but still leaves a card. This is the one that has been puzzling me, as it's not really harder to deliver a parcel than leave a card. There would have to be some extra motivation. Bungle73's thing about overtime might cover it.


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## nino_savatte (Jun 11, 2011)

I don't think anyone has a nice thing to say about Citylink. They're a bunch of pathological liars.


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## editor (Jun 11, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There are three possibilities I suppose:
> 
> 1. Driver doesn't have parcel at all so has to leave card, slipping it in ninjalike so you don't go down to collect.
> 2. Driver doesn't even go to your location so has to lie about leaving a card.
> 3. Driver has your parcel and goes to your house but still leaves a card. This is the one that has been puzzling me, as it's not really harder to deliver a parcel than leave a card. There would have to be some extra motivation. Bungle73's thing about overtime might cover it.


There was no card left and the driver categorically did not ring the doorbell. There's nothing in the concierge either (if I'm out - which I wasn't - less idiotic courier companies leave the packages there). 

I've had loads of courier deliveries recently, and all have arrived on time except Citylink who are liars, plain and simple. So now the 'express' delivery I paid for is unlikely to appear until Tuesday - assuming that they don't pull the same stunt all over again, ad infinitum (I once gave up on a delivery and cancelled the order because they were incapable of delivering it).


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## dlx1 (Jun 11, 2011)

I don't use wiggle ebuyer and other if their carrier is shitylink.

Seen then just stick card in letter box and not even knock door.


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## editor (Jun 11, 2011)

Feel the immediacy of their response!



> Thank you for submitting your enquiry to City Link. Your reference is: #1---
> 
> We will get back to you as soon as possible.
> 
> ...


They haven't got back to me today. I doubt if they will.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 11, 2011)

trashpony said:


> They left my new expensive kitchen bins behind the gate next to the house where I keep the bins. I didn't find them until I went to put something in the bin. No card obviously


 
Ha ha, that reminds me, they have put packages in my recycling boxes outside the front door, without leaving a note (a couple of times).
If I was out and they did that on a Tuesday they would have got chucked away.


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## N_igma (Jun 11, 2011)

I'm not sure how citylink work but if the driver doesn't have your parcel he shouldn't be going anywhere near your house. It's up to citylink to notify who you purchased it from and up to them to phone you and let you know your parcel isn't coming.


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## _angel_ (Jun 11, 2011)

Mr Smin said:


> Get used to it:
> 
> http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n09/james-meek/in-the-sorting-office


 interesting (in a kind of depressing way) that article briefly mentions deutsche post is privatised. Does anyone have any info on the German postal system btw as getting a bit panicked that the parcels I sent a week ago have not got through.


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## trashpony (Jun 11, 2011)

N_igma said:


> I'm not sure how citylink work but if the driver doesn't have your parcel he shouldn't be going anywhere near your house. It's up to citylink to notify who you purchased it from and up to them to phone you and let you know your parcel isn't coming.


 
The parcels are on the van. As bugle says, they deliberately bugger off without leaving them to bump up their overtime. That is the only logical explanation for the three times they've attempted to deliver something when I am in the house and they say there is no reply (actually two of those times they didn't leave a card, although they said they had so I suspect they never came anywhere near me)


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## N_igma (Jun 11, 2011)

trashpony said:


> The parcels are on the van. As bugle says, they deliberately bugger off without leaving them to bump up their overtime. That is the only logical explanation for the three times they've attempted to deliver something when I am in the house and they say there is no reply (actually two of those times they didn't leave a card, although they said they had so I suspect they never came anywhere near me)


 
Well they're putting their own jobs on the line by doing that. When that sort of thing happens for the company I work for we go back to the couriers and tell them the driver wasn't anywhere near the house.


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## editor (Jun 13, 2011)

Still no response. They are the fucking pits.


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## gaijingirl (Jun 13, 2011)

I recently went to buy something and when I realised the courier company was Citylink, I changed my mind and used a different company.  They really are the worst.


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## editor (Jun 13, 2011)

So, the package unexpectedly turned up this afternoon after the driver miraculously discovered how to dial in a door number.

Later on, I got this reply from Citylink: 





> Thank you for your email, please accept my apologies for the delayed response. I can see that you are now in receipt of your goods. Obviously this is a late delivery and I can only apologise for this and advise that you will need to contact Amazon to claim for the late delivery charges.
> 
> Once again I would like to offer my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused.


And my reply:


> Would you care to address the central issue about your driver claiming
> to have attempted delivery when he clearly did not?


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## Badgers (Jun 14, 2011)

Citylink are useless  

If anyone wants a recommendation I have been using Parcel2Go.com for some business stuff and found them to be excellent service/value.


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## Bungle73 (Jun 14, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Citylink are useless
> 
> If anyone wants a recommendation I have been using Parcel2Go.com for some business stuff and found them to be excellent service/value.


Yeah, I've used them a few times too (for sending stuff I've sold on eBay), but not recently though.


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## editor (Jun 14, 2011)

I get quite a lot of stuff delivered by courier, but Citylink are the only ones who bring about an instant facepalm once I find out that they're going to be (not) delivering the package.


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## TitanSound (Jun 14, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> I recently went to buy something and when I realised the courier company was Citylink, I changed my mind and used a different company.  They really are the worst.


 
After a couple of bad experiences, I do the same now.


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## Cid (Jun 14, 2011)

editor said:


> And they've just done it again to me. Amazon - stop using them for fuck's sake. They're SHIT.


 
Amazon are delivering by DPD for me... Considerably better so far, tell you what time the package is coming (within an hour).


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## Bungle73 (Jun 14, 2011)

Cid said:


> Amazon are delivering by DPD for me... Considerably better so far, tell you what time the package is coming (within an hour).


Amazon  usually send stuff to me through Home Delivery Network Limited, who I've never had a problem with.

I did order some pillows through Amazon (but not from Amazon) and the courier the seller used (I forget who) specified a delivery time too (within a 2 hour window iirc), now why can't all couriers do that?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 14, 2011)

my new computer is comming via shitty link

~starts crying~


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## editor (Jun 14, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> my new computer is comming via shitty link
> 
> ~starts crying~


Best of luck with that.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 14, 2011)

well it's a huge item and  next day delivery  and i'm in a house  so  i'm slightly hopeful.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 14, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> well it's a huge item and  next day delivery  and i'm in a house  so  i'm slightly hopeful.


 
(((((  )))))))


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## editor (Jun 14, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> well it's a huge item and  next day delivery  and i'm in a house  so  i'm slightly hopeful.


My delivery ticked all those boxes too and still the invisible driver said he came around and left an invisible card.


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## Cid (Jun 14, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Amazon  usually send stuff to me through Home Delivery Network Limited, who I've never had a problem with.
> 
> I did order some pillows through Amazon (but not from Amazon) and the courier the seller used (I forget who) specified a delivery time too (within a 2 hour window iirc), now why can't all couriers do that?


 
It says this:



> Your order from Amazon is out for delivery today and is estimated to be delivered between 14:57-15:57. Can you please ensure that someone will be available to sign for the parcel at:
> 
> <address>
> 
> If today is not convenient, please click below to change the date.



Looking through my e-mails I've had three deliveries that do it, all from different companies, so hopefully it's a trend that will force the likes of shitty to shape up or get to fuck.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 14, 2011)

editor said:


> My delivery ticked all those boxes too and still the invisible driver said he came around and left an invisible card.


 
thought  the diver might have to  brave the fortress that is the barrier block  

estates myust be slightly more difficult.  although that is no excuse


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 14, 2011)

editor said:


> My delivery ticked all those boxes too and still the invisible driver said he came around and left an invisible card.


 
If only you'd been ordering an invisible computer, I'm sure they'd have brought that round bang on time.


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## Streathamite (Jun 14, 2011)

editor said:


> Mind you, I do feel slightly better for the fact that if you type in "citylink couriers" into Google, the number one result is my "Citylink Couriers: useless, lying wankers" post.


top SEO work there!


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 14, 2011)

just got the  tracking number


i shall report back later


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 14, 2011)

this traking number will become active after 7pm

it is now 8pm

tracking number doesn't work


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 14, 2011)

I'm not sure what the problem is with shitty link really... but the way I've always delt with it is to start ringing them to complain of non delivery before lunchtime regardless of the agreed time and then make sure I phone back at least every hour saying it hasn't arrived oddly if you make three calls and get more and more irate but polite about them having failed to deliver then they seem to turn up as the call centre manager usually realises this ones not going away and phones the courier...


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## Chz (Jun 15, 2011)

Oh I've given up on bothering to be home for them. I just accept that it won't be delivered to my door and plan around going out to their "Wimbledon" (that would be Morden) depot to pick it up.

I'm relieved that my favourite electronics site (Scan) doesn't use them any more.


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## TheDave (Jun 15, 2011)

I worked for a delivery company over the Christmas holidays and all I can say is it's not just City Link who are utterly useless.


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 15, 2011)

I'd like to see an expose on one of those 'Rogue Traders' type shows.


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## Sunray (Jun 15, 2011)

I have actually begged someone to send it something other than CityLink because its a world of hurt.

I like the post office Special Delivery, I wish people would offer that service.  The PO have local depots everywhere and although the queues can be a bit mad on the saturday, least its not somewhere in some ind est in Dagenham with no public transport at all.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 15, 2011)

Chz said:


> Oh I've given up on bothering to be home for them. I just accept that it won't be delivered to my door and plan around going out to their "Wimbledon" (that would be Morden) depot to pick it up.
> 
> I'm relieved that my favourite electronics site (Scan) doesn't use them any more.


 
It really pisses me off when they suggest you go to their depot (the one that seems to have had my parcels has always been practically at Heathrow iirc). No, I fucking ordered it, your job is to fucking deliver it, the furthest I want to have to move is to my front door.


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## trashpony (Jun 15, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It really pisses me off when they suggest you go to their depot (the one that seems to have had my parcels has always been practically at Heathrow iirc). No, I fucking ordered it, your job is to fucking deliver it, the furthest I want to have to move is to my front door.


 
Quite. They tell me to go to Ashford which is about 20m away. No, fuck off, use your own petrol.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 15, 2011)

turns out in my cse   there was a mistake at  the computer place.  not citlinks fault.   i have  a new tracking number  and a five piece delivery coming


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 16, 2011)

ok  it's out on delivery.    fingers crossed.


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## Streathamite (Jun 17, 2011)

Interesting piece in the _Standard_ yesterday. Rentokil, who own Citylink, are aware the company's a crock of shit and have poached 2 of the blokes running parcelforce to turn it round


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## Pingu (Jun 17, 2011)

i love it when i phone up citylink when stuff doesnt arrive. they always "just have a chat with the driver". I always ask them to ask him if he noticed anything unusual or out of the ordinary when he attempted delivery - like the big sign saying "Dear delivery driver.. you are on CCTV so dont attempt to do a runner with my stuff, just ring the bell and i will be right with you". it normaly goes a bit quiet at that point


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## editor (Jun 17, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Interesting piece in the _Standard_ yesterday. Rentokil, who own Citylink, are aware the company's a crock of shit and have poached 2 of the blokes running parcelforce to turn it round


I'm still waiting for an answer to my question to Citylink asking why the driver said he'd tried to deliver when he clearly hadn't.


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## Radar (Jun 22, 2011)

I had Parcelfarce try that with 1100 quids worth of new PC components from ebuyer. The fucker ninjaed me a "Sorry you weren't in" card whilst I was in the sodding bath. This was after I'd taken the day off to be sure I'd be in for the delivery  I just heard a soft click as he closed the letterbox flap.

I chased the van down the street in my dressing gown and caught him on his next delivery at the next block of flats.

I was not a happy bunny, especially when he tried to spin it as he was doing me a favour by deigning to deliver my stuff on the day it was scheduled for.


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## Bungle73 (Jun 22, 2011)

Radar said:


> I had Parcelfarce try that with 1100 quids worth of new PC components from ebuyer. The fucker ninjaed me a "Sorry you weren't in" card whilst I was in the sodding bath. This was after I'd taken the day off to be sure I'd be in for the delivery  I just heard a soft click as he closed the letterbox flap.
> 
> I chased the van down the street in my dressing gown and caught him on his next delivery at the next block of flats.
> 
> I was not a happy bunny, especially when he tried to spin it as he was doing me a favour by deigning to deliver my stuff on the day it was scheduled for.


Why would you take a bath when you were expecting something to be delivered?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 22, 2011)

Yeah, it's your fault!


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## Radar (Jun 26, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Why would you take a bath when you were expecting something to be delivered?


 
All I knew was that it was due to arrive that day, I had no idea when and no timeslot was given.

I like my morning soak and a cuppa, it sets me up for the day  Serious shit has to be going down for it to be missed.


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## Wolveryeti (Jun 26, 2011)

CYC - also total clowns. Just went to their proclaimed '24-hour depot' only to find out that their definition of 24-hour means '24-hour opening except when we send the sole member of staff on a delivery'. Nobody there unless I wanted to wait 2.5 hours, plus the call-centre guy had the front to suggest it was my fault for not phoning in advance to see if someone was there.


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## editor (Dec 21, 2011)

In case anyone missed it, there's been an interesting development:
Clueless, crappy Citylink accuse me of copying their “entire site” in bonkers legal claim


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## wayward bob (Dec 21, 2011)

tbf we must have had a dozen deliveries today - even shitty link got our stuff to us 
(admittedly not in london though)


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 21, 2011)

> This did leave me with the problem of having to find a new
> illustration for the article about your company’s dreadful service, so
> I’m sure you’ll be delighted with the new image showing a battered
> yellow transit van, circa 1982, with a big flying cock on the side.
> ...


 
Excellent work Editor


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 21, 2011)




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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 21, 2011)

Isn't it worth putting it on Twitter to publicise it even more?


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 21, 2011)

Having said that, just logged on to Yahoo and this is front page

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/video#video=27656016

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/cctv-delivery-man-throws-monitor-over-fence-034726781.html



ETA - the link that came up at the end of the video was not to the video in question.


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## stuff_it (Dec 21, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There are three possibilities I suppose:
> 
> 1. Driver doesn't have parcel at all so has to leave card, slipping it in ninjalike so you don't go down to collect.
> 2. Driver doesn't even go to your location so has to lie about leaving a card.
> 3. Driver has your parcel and goes to your house but still leaves a card. This is the one that has been puzzling me, as it's not really harder to deliver a parcel than leave a card. There would have to be some extra motivation. Bungle73's thing about overtime might cover it.


Card through door takes up less time than waiting for someone to come to the door, sign for the parcel, etc...


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## Bungle73 (Dec 21, 2011)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Having said that, just logged on to Yahoo and this is front page
> 
> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/video#video=27656016


What's that got to do with City Link?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 21, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> What's that got to do with City Link?



Just what I was wondering 

Maybe he's on wrong thread


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 21, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> What's that got to do with City Link?



nothing directly, but since there are references to the alleged crapness of at least 3 other carriers on this thread, it did not seem inappropriate to show crapness elsewhere.

Ah, hang on a minute...

Link for video posted when video ends is not link to the video it refers to.



Try this


*goes back to edit previous post so that none of this makes any sense*


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## rekil (Dec 22, 2011)

I used to work for them. Euston station depot.

/Raises hands in victory, or possibly surrender


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## Giles (Dec 27, 2011)

We recently switched from using "Yodel" (formerly "DHL Domestic", since merged with HDN I think, and rebranded) because they messed up some of our deliveries.

Just in time, it seems, they have been very widely slagged off for stuffing up thousands of Christmas-related deliveries for various suppliers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/anger-at-yodel-delivery-backlog-6281354.html

We now use Parcelforce to collect our parcels from our office and deliver them. So far, they seem a lot better.

There seem to be quite a lot of courier companies around that provide a pants service. Anyone got any other tales of who is good and who is to be avoided at all costs?

Giles..


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## cybertect (Dec 28, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Isn't it worth putting it on Twitter to publicise it even more?



Did that already


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 25, 2012)

I've just been told that a parcel is on its way via 'My Hermes' who I'd never previously heard of.

Looking at their website, they appear to be cheaper for parcels than parcelfarce, and will collect them from your home.

researches

Oh balls.

And I can't face reading the 46 page thread on MSE



looks like Shittylink have competition...


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 25, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I've just been told that a parcel is on its way via 'My Hermes' who I'd never previously heard of.
> 
> Looking at their website, they appear to be cheaper for parcels than parcelfarce, and will collect them from your home.
> 
> ...


 

Greebo and I decided we wouldn't buy from anyone using MyHermes (part of HermesUK, who are in turn part of Hermes Europe) after seeing a documentary on them while in Germany last year. They're a piecework mob. The driver gets paid per parcel (about .6-.7 of a Euro per parcel, out of which they have to pay their own fuel and maintenance costs because guess what? They have to use their own vehicles!), so the emphasis is on getting from one job to the next as quickly as possible, and if that means posting a card to speed things up, that's what the drivers were pretty much forced (by the business model) to do.  The founder of the company pretty much gloated about how his business model milked the drivers, the cunt.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 25, 2012)

Sounds like another one to avoid. Market efficiency eh?


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 25, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Sounds like another one to avoid. Market efficiency eh?


 
Makes it sound better than what it really is - a race to the bottom.


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## Leafster (Apr 25, 2012)

Sorry to bump this thread but CityLink were supposed to deliver something to me today. I've just checked their website and they say they attempted to deliver it this afternoon but I wasn't here so they left a card. Well, I've been here all bloody day and they haven't left a card!


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## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

Leafster said:


> Sorry to bump this thread but CityLink were supposed to deliver something to me today. I've just checked their website and they say they attempted to deliver it this afternoon but I wasn't here so they left a card. Well, I've been here all bloody day and they haven't left a card!


That's their standard modus operandi.


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 25, 2012)

I'd forgotten about this thread.  On that occasion, the parcel via Hermes arrived safely.  Looked like a semi-retired person using her own car (wonder just what the insurance / legal implications of that are)


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## Ax^ (Apr 25, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I'd forgotten about this thread. On that occasion, the parcel via Hermes arrived safely. Looked like a semi-retired person using her own car (wonder just what the insurance / legal implications of that are)


 
cannot be that many ... its wide practise to subby out delievery doors ...

DHL is one of the biggest to do it


only way insurance would come into it is if the item was stolen from the vechile then it would be on the subby head


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## DaveCinzano (Apr 27, 2012)

Giles said:


> We recently switched from using "Yodel" (formerly "DHL Domestic", since merged with HDN I think, and rebranded) because they messed up some of our deliveries...


 
Just had a delivery from them. Saw the van pull up whilst sitting in view of the front door. Doorbell went and I was answering it within about 5 seconds (tones still in my ears as I open the door).

Driver already back in his van. I spot a package tucked behind the wheelie bin. The driver spots me. "It's really raining," he says, as if that explains why he has DUMPED A COMPUTER OUTSIDE MY FRONT DOOR IN A TORRENTIAL DOWNPOUR AND FUCKED OFF.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 27, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I'd forgotten about this thread. On that occasion, the parcel via Hermes arrived safely. Looked like a semi-retired person using her own car (wonder just what the insurance / legal implications of that are)


 
I mentioned them using that business model in post #75. As far as I can ascertain, it's legal, as long as they've informed the insurance company that they're using their private vehicle for private courier work, and pay the appropriate premium. The company itself certainly doesn't appear to have anything in place to actually check whether ther drivers have the correct insurance, though.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Greebo and I decided we wouldn't buy from anyone using MyHermes (part of HermesUK, who are in turn part of Hermes Europe) after seeing a documentary on them while in Germany last year. They're a piecework mob. The driver gets paid per parcel (about .6-.7 of a Euro per parcel, out of which they have to pay their own fuel and maintenance costs because guess what? They have to use their own vehicles!), so the emphasis is on getting from one job to the next as quickly as possible, and if that means posting a card to speed things up, that's what the drivers were pretty much forced (by the business model) to do. The founder of the company pretty much gloated about how his business model milked the drivers, the cunt.


DPD drivers use the company vehicles but from what the Mr tells me (he works for one of the companies that service their vehichles) the drivers effectively 'lease' the vans and work on a 'self employed' basis - they get charged over £100 if they take a day off ill for their vehicle being unavailable for the company use when it was meant to be.


----------



## Leafster (Apr 27, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Just had a delivery from them. Saw the van pull up whilst sitting in view of the front door. Doorbell went and I was answering it within about 5 seconds (tones still in my ears as I open the door).
> 
> Driver already back in his van. I spot a package tucked behind the wheelie bin. The driver spots me. "It's really raining," he says, as if that explains why he has DUMPED A COMPUTER OUTSIDE MY FRONT DOOR IN A TORRENTIAL DOWNPOUR AND FUCKED OFF.


When they delivered my parcel the day after they said they'd tried the box was soaking wet even though he'd only walked from the van to my front door. Thankfully, the contents was shrink-wrapped otherwise I wouldn't have been happy!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 27, 2012)

I ordered a camera from Tesco online yesterday and was disturbed to get a delivery tracking email just now saying that it had been dispatched via Yodel 

However, I took the cheap option of collecting it from a local Tesco store, so they should be delivering it there. I wonder if they will try to claim they tried to deliver it to a Tesco but there was nobody in? Or leave it outside the shop door?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 28, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I ordered a camera from Tesco online yesterday and was disturbed to get a delivery tracking email just now saying that it had been dispatched via Yodel
> 
> However, I took the cheap option of collecting it from a local Tesco store, so they should be delivering it there. I wonder if they will try to claim they tried to deliver it to a Tesco but there was nobody in? Or leave it outside the shop door?


And the answer was that they actually delivered it properly to Tesco. Presumably they don't want to piss off Tesco too much by ballsing up their internal deliveries.

On the other hand I had to walk about five miles in the rain. Though I did get to admire the lovely scenery of Acton. That really made up for it.


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2012)

The good news: my long awaited camera has been despatched. 
The bad news: delivery by fucking City link.

So, I won't be expecting to see the thing any time soon then


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 30, 2012)

on today's Workshy outing to Greenwich, we did pass a Citylink van and debated drawing a cock on the side...


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2012)

Still, mindful of the fact that people don't want to sit in all day long waiting for a delivery, they've they've conveniently narrowed the delivery time to 10 freaking hours: 7:30am to 5:30pm.

Well, I say "delivery time" but that usually means the period in which:
(a) the van doesn't come within a 6 mile radius of my house
(b) a card claiming a delivery attempt appears silently downstairs.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

I've turned down a really interesting day out with my fellow urbanites to wait in for this camera delivery today. So the stakes are high.

Their tracking site says the package is on its way. Surely Citylink can manage just this one delivery?


----------



## Leafster (May 1, 2012)

I'm expecting parcels via UPS today and Parcel Force tomorrow. What's the betting both my parcels will arrive before you even get a card saying Citylink couldn't deliver your parcel as you were out?


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

Over five hours in and still no sign of the package.


----------



## Leafster (May 1, 2012)

UPS have just delivered today's parcel. Any sign of yours yet ed?


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

Don't be fucking daft.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

The story so far:


----------



## Leafster (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> Don't be fucking daft.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

They've turned up!

Mind you, the actual courier was unbelievably surly. "Sign this" he said, thrusting an electronic box my way.
"I can't see where to sign as the screen isn't not turned on," I countered. 
"Just sign in anyway" grunted Mr Charmer, clearly affronted that he had to get out of his van and actually make a delivery today.


----------



## Leafster (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> They've turned up!
> 
> Mind you, the actual courier was unbelievably surly. "Sign this" he said, thrusting an electronic box my way.
> "I can't see where to sign as the screen isn't not turned on," I countered.
> "Just sign in anyway" grunted Mr Charmer, clearly affronted that he had to get out of his van and actually make a delivery today.


Success! 

I have to admit that neither the Citylink courier the other day or the UPS guy today seemed particularly happy.


----------



## Crispy (May 1, 2012)

It's not a very nice job, tbf.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> It's not a very nice job, tbf.


Other courier companies seem chirpy enough though. This was the grumpiest guy I've encountered to date.


----------



## claphamboy (May 1, 2012)

I guess it depends on how many drops they have to do in a day, some I've spoken to have been expected to do 80-100, and how far they have to drive from the depot to the first drop, which can be an hour or more.

Throw in traffic conditions & hold-ups, and I can understand why some are grumpy TBH.


----------



## Leafster (May 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> It's not a very nice job, tbf.


 
I was going to suggest in my post that I can understand why it might not be a very fulfilling job especially with some of the pressures that claphamboy has mentioned.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> They've turned up!
> 
> Mind you, the actual courier was unbelievably surly. "Sign this" he said, thrusting an electronic box my way.
> "I can't see where to sign as the screen isn't not turned on," I countered.
> "Just sign in anyway" grunted Mr Charmer, clearly affronted that he had to get out of his van and actually make a delivery today.


 
He was probably looking forward to a nice leisurely circuit of the South Circular, broken only by the occasional fleeting delivery of a "we called, but you were out, sucker" card, and now you've gone and given his muscles extra wear and tear, you spoilsport!

Enjoy the new camera!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2012)

Leafster said:


> I was going to suggest in my post that I can understand why it might not be a very fulfilling job especially with some of the pressures that claphamboy has mentioned.


 
It's swings and roundabouts with the courier companies, too. If you're a retained driver you get a regular salary, but it's nothing to shout about, and unpaid overtime is expected. If you're a freelancer, you get paid fuck-all per delivery, and your overheads all come out of that fuck-all, as does the company's cut for putting the work your way.  Frankly, I just wish that all traders gave you the option of using Royal Mail or Parcelforce. At least then the depots aren't *too* far away, and you can arrange re-delivery more easily than with the courier companies.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> The story so far:
> 
> View attachment 18719
> 
> View attachment 18720


Someone should tell City Link it's "en route".


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 1, 2012)

I think we'd all be happier if our parcels were en croute.


----------



## Leafster (May 1, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> I think we'd all be happier if our parcels were en croute.


Would they be salmon parcels?


----------



## London_Calling (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> They've turned up!
> 
> Mind you, the actual courier was unbelievably surly. "Sign this" he said, thrusting an electronic box my way.
> "I can't see where to sign as the screen isn't not turned on," I countered.
> "Just sign in anyway" grunted Mr Charmer, clearly affronted that he had to get out of his van and actually make a delivery today.


I suspect where you live is part of the problem for multi-drop delivery drivers.

Whoever designs their working day assumes everyone lives in a house with a normal, sequentially numbered front door with a parking space available directly outside, and that the customer will be waiting in the doorway with a pen and a wide smile. That they don't isn't 'the offices' problem, it's entirely the incompetent drivers fault.

In multi-drop, time-sensitive world, I'd imagine you are the ultimate in nightmare 'drops'.

/Fwiw


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 1, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> In multi-drop, time-sensitive world, I'd imagine you are the ultimate in nightmare 'drops'.


 
There is an obvious solution here - Editor needs to train his troupe of squirrels to meet couriers at ground level, sign for items, give the van driver some nuts as a sign of appreciation, then between them carry the parcel up to his flat.


----------



## editor (May 2, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> I suspect where you live is part of the problem for multi-drop delivery drivers.
> 
> Whoever designs their working day assumes everyone lives in a house with a normal, sequentially numbered front door with a parking space available directly outside, and that the customer will be waiting in the doorway with a pen and a wide smile. That they don't isn't 'the offices' problem, it's entirely the incompetent drivers fault.
> 
> ...


Yet no other courier company seems to express any undue suffering when they're dropping packages off. In fact, the UPS guy was notably always very cheerful and chatty.


----------



## London_Calling (May 2, 2012)

poss a variety of things - training, company culture, perhaps pay, area knowldge, pressure (multi-drop related).

I'd imagine your Citylink guy is relatively porly paid, unfairly under pressure and behind schedule.


----------



## editor (May 2, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> poss a variety of things - training, company culture, perhaps pay, area knowldge, pressure (multi-drop related).
> 
> I'd imagine your Citylink guy is relatively porly paid, unfairly under pressure and behind schedule.


I've had jobs far worse than driving a van about and never used that as an excuse to be rude to customers.


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2012)

Another day, another load of hours waiting in for a Citylink delivery which may, or may not come. 

I pleaded with the ending company not to use them, all to no avail.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 8, 2012)

Has Watchdog covered ShittyLink yet? If not, then they should. No one has a nice word for them.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 8, 2012)

Just to let you know Royal Mail can also royally fuck it up.. putting a card thru the door about a parcel without bothering to knock. We were in!
As for parcelfarce worldwide, shell out thirty quid for the privilege of having your goods nicked and have to refund a customer £200 _they_ don't refund tho. 
*moan *


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2012)

We've had four deliveries today from other courier companies. Guess who's yet to show?


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2012)

For fuck's sake. Another day wasted waiting in for these useless fucking cunts.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 8, 2012)

editor said:


> For fuck's sake. Another day wasted waiting in for these useless fucking cunts.


 

I feel for you, as I'm sure everyone else who's ever had to deal with them does 

I'm expecting a delivery on Monday from Sainsbury's.  I hope they don't use other couriers for their electronic items


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2012)

I get stuff delivered to work thus avoiding most of the annoyances other people have had with citylink. This might work for some posters, though not for others.


----------



## Geri (Jun 8, 2012)

Yesterday I was waiting for a parcel to be delivered to my office from Interlink. At 4.50pm I checked their website and it stated "delivered" and signed for by "Steve". Well, there is no Steve in our office, so I complained to the website I ordered it from. They spoke to Interlink and called me back to say it had been left at no 20, as there was no one available to sign for it at my address.

Well, the square my office is on has numbers 1-18 only. I did take a walk around it in the rain just to be sure, then called them back. Another phone call to advise that the parcel had in fact been left at no 20 Gxxxxxx Street, which is the street next to my home address. Funny thing is that the website I ordered it from has no record of my home address as I have never ordered from them before and only gave them my work address! I did call at the address on the way home from work and they had my parcel, and were slightly mystified as to why Interlink had left it with them, as was I. The parcel had my company name and work address on the front.


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## claphamboy (Jun 9, 2012)

That ^^^ is well spooky.  /


----------



## Geri (Jun 9, 2012)

All I can think is that they must have delivered to me before, and looked at their old records instead of the parcel they were actually delivering. Idiots.


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## joustmaster (Jun 9, 2012)

I ordered 5 grands worth of server for work last week. The delivery tracking says "no access to site", so I got the company I ordered from to sort it out, rather than doing it my self via the delivery company. 

The results are that it has been reported as delivered, they have no signature, and can't get hold of the driver because he was a temp.

Excellent work


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## magneze (Jul 17, 2012)

Never had an issue with CityLink. Currently having much stress with Yodel. They keep "attempting" delivery and leaving a card. Except they're not. They've been told that they're going to the wrong address time and time again. I have now sent them a Google Street Map with "IT'S THIS HOUSE". I got this picture through Googling my fucking address. Fingers crossed for tomorrow. Twats.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 17, 2012)

I saw a BBC article which had a couple of things which I think show the future of courier services. One, which is available from one courier firm right now, basically it allows you to track the van with your item so you know exactly where it is. The other, which hasn't been put into practice yet, is that you log into a service to tell it where you are and the courier delivers your item to you where ever you happen to be, in a coffee shop or where ever.

I have had one courier myself where they didn't just give a day, the emailed me with a two hour delivery window, which was very helpful.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 17, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18709348


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2012)

how exciting. so you'll be able to see your parcel on a map, being delivered to a different town/city/country to the one you're in?


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 17, 2012)

I can't see how that'll work. If a courier can't find you at a fixed address where you're there for several hours, how are they going to find you when you're changing location constantly?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 18, 2012)

Laser-guided smart stamps? UPS UAVs? Cruise Transits?


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 18, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I saw a BBC article which had a couple of things which I think show the future of courier services. One, which is available from one courier firm right now, basically it allows you to track the van with your item so you know exactly where it is. The other, which hasn't been put into practice yet, is that you log into a service to tell it where you are and the courier delivers your item to you where ever you happen to be, in a coffee shop or where ever.
> 
> I have had one courier myself where they didn't just give a day, the emailed me with a two hour delivery window, which was very helpful.


 
I had one recently, can't remember which courier it was, that since a text in the morning giving a delivery time of 12.15pm and they arrived within 10 minutes of that time.


----------



## drnev (Jul 18, 2012)

I worked fo City Link for 8 weeks and they don't give a stuff about carefull handling.They throw things in the back of vans and stand on things like laptops.I got told when i was putting stuff into my van "dont pack it in throw it in it aint yours so why worrie".Sorry i thought of the poor kid that was getting this for xmas and when checked the parents never had time to get a replacement sent or worse the kid got up xmas morning to find his brilliant present he has just got dont work and now everywheres shut for maybe a week.


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## joustmaster (Jul 19, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> I had one recently, can't remember which courier it was, that since a text in the morning giving a delivery time of 12.15pm and they arrived within 10 minutes of that time.


I got something for interlink today. The they texted me an hour window for delivery.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 17, 2012)

joustmaster said:


> I got something for interlink today. The they texted me an hour window for delivery.


Well, I was supposed to get a next day package from Interlink Express today, I had to wait until about 11am to see the delivery hour slot on the tracking site which makes it pointless, and at 2.46pm the usual lie came up on the website saying "sorry we tried to deliver but there was nobody there". Plus they have no telephone number on their website. So that's another bunch of cunts I'll be avoiding then.


----------



## rekil (Aug 30, 2012)




----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 30, 2012)

copliker said:


> View attachment 22560


----------



## pogofish (May 2, 2013)

Seems Citylink have been sold-off - for a whole *one pound!*



> Rentokil acquired City Link in 2006, but City Link has lost money since 2007, including £26m in 2012.
> 
> It has struggled in the face of weakening demand for its services from small businesses.
> 
> ...


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22335092

Maybe some of the suggestions on this thread could be punted for the inevitable re-branding?


----------



## TitanSound (May 2, 2013)

"Weakening demand for it's services from small businesses".

Well, that's because they were shit. And I know I'm not alone when I decided against ordering from a retailer when I know it's going to be delivered by Shitty Link.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 2, 2013)

pogofish said:


> Seems Citylink have been sold-off - for a whole *one pound!*


 
Sounds like Better Capital got skanked.


----------



## Leafster (May 2, 2013)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Sounds like Better Capital got skanked.


The business next door will receive a card through their door saying they were unable to deliver the company as no one was in and it's been left in a wheelie-bin three doors down.


----------



## 89 Til Infinity (May 2, 2013)

I think Yodel take this award!

After 3 failed collections I switched to CityLink who came and collected it the very next day


----------



## Chz (May 2, 2013)

Yes, the declining use of City Link (a good thing, overall) has let Yodel in to be the new shittiest courier in town.


----------



## gentlegreen (May 2, 2013)

I don't normally watch this sort of thing, but I was gobsmacked by how one *UKMail* sorting office was operating.

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/...s-after-staff-run-amok-with-customers-parcels


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## Wilson (May 2, 2013)

I worked out of two of their depots GG and they were both like that one in the vid, so much so that I thought I knew who that tall looking chap was till I saw that it was in bournemouth.


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## editor (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm delighted to have been instrumental in one company switching from Citylink to a much better company. Their final straw was when Citylink got rid of the driver they'd be using for ten years (laid off because of cutbacks) and then three different drivers all turned up on the day, all of them utterly clueless.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 26, 2013)

Aargh, I've just been Citylinked again. I was just about to get all ranty about a parcel from Japan arriving more quickly and cheaply (less than a week - the incredible Japanese Chefs Knives and EMS) than a UK chopping board order placed at the same time. And then a card from Citylink arrived yesterday, over a week after the order. Check the reference and it turns out the poor sod had paid for '24 hour delivery" (from Citylink, snigger) and they were claiming two earlier deliveries a week before - mysteriously no cards were left, nor any neighbour tried. Rang today to complain and rearrange delivery, only to return home to another card. Have to collect now from Beckenham, aka the end of the world afaic.

Unsurprisingly they can fuck off. Parcel's going back and I'm not paying a jot. Lying and shit customer service seems to be this company's norm.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 26, 2013)

On the plus side, the widespread use of shitty couriers is helping me get over a serious eBay addiction.


----------



## toph (Nov 26, 2013)

I thought advertising wasn't allowed on this website?


----------



## xenon (Nov 26, 2013)

I've just seen a job advert for a customer service apprentis for City Link. 8K PA. What's that argument again MPs et al use for needing a hire wage...




Meanwhile I'm a bit peeved at DPD couriers. One no show and another them saying they'd be out the next day when it was arranged for a week later...


----------



## editor (Nov 26, 2013)

toph said:


> I thought advertising wasn't allowed on this website?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 26, 2013)

editor said:


>


Me neither.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Nov 26, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, I was supposed to get a next day package from Interlink Express today, I had to wait until about 11am to see the delivery hour slot on the tracking site which makes it pointless, and at 2.46pm the usual lie came up on the website saying "sorry we tried to deliver but there was nobody there". Plus they have no telephone number on their website. So that's another bunch of cunts I'll be avoiding then.



When does lying to your customers and not delivering goods become criminal fraud and theft worthy of reporting to the police?


----------



## editor (Nov 26, 2013)

There's some well angry posts about Citylink on my blog article:
http://www.urban75.org/blog/citylink-couriers-useless-lying-wankers/

And remember this? 
Clueless, crappy Citylink accuse me of copying their “entire site” in bonkers legal claim


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## editor (Nov 26, 2013)

Check out their online reviews. How the fuck are they still in business?
http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.city-link.co.uk


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## Bungle73 (Nov 26, 2013)

Funnily enough I've never had any problems with couriers, apart from that one time, even the ones that are supposed to be "bad".

In fact there was one courier I had something delivered by that was really good, that gave me a 2 hour delivery window when my package would be delivered instead of just the "7am-7pm" you get with other couriers.  I don't remember who they were though.



19sixtysix said:


> When does lying to your customers and not delivering goods become criminal fraud and theft worthy of reporting to the police?


Why would the police be interested?  It's more a case for Trading Standards.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 26, 2013)

19sixtysix said:


> When does lying to your customers and not delivering goods become criminal fraud and theft worthy of reporting to the police?


I mention it to eBay sellers sometimes but it doesn't seem to really bother them that they aren't getting the service that is claimed. You're much more likely to be a one off customer on eBay after all.


----------



## Winot (Dec 11, 2013)

More shitty-link nonsense: they seem to have lost a fairly expensive case of wine that was being delivered to me.  Thankfully it's the responsibility of the wine company to send another (and they have no problem with doing so) so I won't lose out.

The person at the wine company is having no luck getting any sense out of City Link.  I think they are about to lose a fairly large corporate client...


----------



## editor (Dec 11, 2013)

Some examples of their latest reviews:

 

http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.city-link.co.uk


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## Bakunin (Jan 6, 2014)

They were delivering a parcel here today. I stepped out back for a smoke and came back in to find their attempted delivery card on the doorstep, which suggests they didn't exactly hang around very long and I heard neither a knock nor the doorbell which is loud enough to be heard at the top of the house. I'm guessing they must have been in a remarkable hurry or their delivery bod didn't get an answer within five seconds so stuffed a card through the door and moved on rather than wait another 30 seconds.


----------



## mack (Jan 6, 2014)

I wouldn't normally slate city link - I've used them for 7 years to ship my goods and they pretty much they give me a 95% success rate.

However I booked a collection from a customer for a repair which got picked up on Friday north of the border for delivery here in London, the box that just arrived is not mine - it's some computer equipment that needs repairing in .... Germany.
Called them up and my parcel is already in Germany! they'll sort it I'm sure but it is quite amusing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 6, 2014)

tbh i'm more pissed off at tnt atm, waiting for something the tracking shows as being out for delivery on saturday - but nothing since.


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## toggle (Jan 6, 2014)

Bakunin said:


> They were delivering a parcel here today. I stepped out back for a smoke and came back in to find their attempted delivery card on the doorstep, which suggests they didn't exactly hang around very long and I heard neither a knock nor the doorbell which is loud enough to be heard at the top of the house. I'm guessing they must have been in a remarkable hurry or their delivery bod didn't get an answer within five seconds so stuffed a card through the door and moved on rather than wait another 30 seconds.



oh ffs.

don't take that as a reason to go out through. my boss is dropping something off later, i think


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 6, 2014)

toggle said:


> oh ffs.
> 
> don't take that as a reason to go out through. my boss is dropping something off later, i think



And we also have the other delivery coming as well. Postie's dropped in your book, though and Shitty Link will try to deliver again tomorrow. I just wish that courier firms generally would actually consider trying a knock or doorbell more than once before deciding to shove off without waiting an extra minute or thirty seconds or something.


----------



## toggle (Jan 6, 2014)

Bakunin said:


> And we also have the other delivery coming as well. Postie's dropped in your book, though and Shitty Link will try to deliver again tomorrow. I just wish that courier firms generally would actually consider trying a knock or doorbell more than once before deciding to shove off without waiting an extra minute or thirty seconds or something.



go out the front for a ciggy tomorrow then.


----------



## Manter (Jan 6, 2014)

Dpd are good- text with a two hour window, the guy who does our route is good, friendly, reliable etc. 

City link are fucking appalling (my favourite is when they put a parcel in my bin, with no card left)- they must quote really low as they have quite a few big corporate accounts.


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 6, 2014)

toggle said:


> go out the front for a ciggy tomorrow then.



Yep, will do.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 6, 2014)

Manter said:


> Dpd are good- text with a two hour window, the guy who does our route is good, friendly, reliable etc.


I'm expecting one via them tomorrow - I already got a text with the option to change days or deliver to a neighbour.

My recent multi-week nightmare was with Hermes. And my colleague in the postroom at work was fuming because they'd saved up a whole van-load to deliver all at once.

But even Royal Mail let me down and couldn't get my M&S socks to my place of work - next time M&S send me an advertising email, I'll mail them back and ask why I wasn't refunded the postage.


----------



## spacemonkey (Jan 6, 2014)

Manter said:


> Dpd are good- text with a two hour window, the guy who does our route is good, friendly, reliable etc.



Another thumbs up for DPD. Much better than Citylink.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 6, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> But even Royal Mail let me down and couldn't get my M&S socks to my place of work - next time M&S send me an advertising email, I'll mail them back and ask why I wasn't refunded the postage.


Why haven't you already chased them for it?


----------



## toggle (Jan 6, 2014)

spacemonkey said:


> Another thumbs up for DPD. Much better than Citylink.



they are great, actually within the timeslots they give, or will message to say they are running late, but apparently very fussy about what they will and won't deliver.


----------



## Manter (Jan 6, 2014)

toggle said:


> they are great, actually within the timeslots they give, or will message to say they are running late, but apparently very fussy about what they will and won't deliver.


I believe (though I may be wrong) that their business model is better for the drivers- some of them pay drivers by item delivered (or at least 'off van' so you get things dropped with neighbours, thrown over fences, in hedges wtc as otherwise the driver doesn't get paid


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 6, 2014)

DPD are like some sort of proper courier company rather than a shady outfit that leaves parcels in bins.

Having said that, I'd be wary of pissing Citylink couriers off - the way they manage to get "sorry you weren't in" cards through the letterbox without you hearing in a silent house with paper thin walls when you're holding your breath, they must be ninjas.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 7, 2014)

DpD again.

How he's going to physically make over 100 deliveries in a day without taking risks is another thing entirely ...


----------



## TopCat (Jan 7, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> DpD again.
> 
> How he's going to physically make over 100 deliveries in a day without taking risks is another thing entirely ...
> 
> ...


They will all be within a gob of each other.


----------



## Greebo (May 2, 2014)

Bumping this thread to nominate UKMail.  

Just for once, both VP and I were out yesterday afternoon and they'd left a card.  It says in the small print that if this was the dfirst attempt at delivery, you don't need to do anything, they'll try again the next working day (today).  

No sign of them, and no indication on their website that they've even had it on the van today.  BTW the depot's on Purley Way - expensive and time consuming to reach from here.


----------



## N_igma (May 2, 2014)

I used to work in a call centre for a very large and reputable UK company who used a few of the couriers mentioned on this thread. If you only knew what some of these cunts get up to not only delivering but in the depots themselves absolutely mental.

Again spare a thought if you have to ring someone in a call centre not their fault some other cunt is being incompetent.


----------



## J Ed (May 16, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Bumping this thread to nominate UKMail.
> 
> Just for once, both VP and I were out yesterday afternoon and they'd left a card.  It says in the small print that if this was the dfirst attempt at delivery, you don't need to do anything, they'll try again the next working day (today).
> 
> No sign of them, and no indication on their website that they've even had it on the van today.  BTW the depot's on Purley Way - expensive and time consuming to reach from here.



Been in the house all day, called customer service and they claim that the driver has attempted to deliver 5 times.

Not the first time I have been lied to by this company. Incredible.


----------



## Mikey77 (May 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Been in the house all day, called customer service and they claim that the driver has attempted to deliver 5 times.
> 
> Not the first time I have been lied to by this company. Incredible.



Maybe he went  to the wrong address. I have been told the driver has delivered in the past and found my parcel outside a neighbours house - in the neighbour's shopping trolley where the driver left it for safe keeping.


----------



## Manter (May 16, 2014)

This reminds me, I bitched about it in Facebook but forgot to update this thread.... I got a city link card a few weeks ago saying they had left my parcel with my neighbour at number 29. 

This street's numbers go up to 23....


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 16, 2014)

They do just lie sometimes. Often.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 16, 2014)

Manter said:


> This reminds me, I bitched about it in Facebook but forgot to update this thread.... I got a city link card a few weeks ago saying they had left my parcel with my neighbour at number 29.
> 
> This street's numbers go up to 23....


I've had that.  Got a card, went round the house whose number was on it, and they didn't know anything about it!  Turns out it was at a completely different house! Can't remember who though.


----------



## Gromit (May 17, 2014)

spacemonkey said:


> Another thumbs up for DPD. Much better than Citylink.



DpD are truly excellent but that comes at a cost. In internet retail 20p can mean the difference between someone buying from you or someone else. 

DpD cost a damn sight more than 20p above CityLink (for mainland UK deliveries). CityLink's contract prices pretty much beat the shit out of everyone else. So much so that salesmen from other companies don't even attempt to sell uk deliveries to me once I tell them who I'm using.


----------



## Greebo (May 17, 2014)

Gromit said:


> DpD are truly excellent but that comes at a cost. In internet retail 20p can mean the difference between someone buying from you or someone else.
> 
> DpD cost a damn sight more than 20p above CityLink (for mainland UK deliveries). CityLink's contract prices pretty much beat the shit out of everyone else. So much so that salesmen from other companies don't even attempt to sell uk deliveries to me once I tell them who I'm using.


Sorry to hear that - FWIW I've been almost on my knees asking sellers to use any other courrier than the ones which have previously driven me up the wall, even if it means paying a lot more for delivery.


----------



## joustmaster (May 17, 2014)

Royal Mail have started texting on the day the parcel is to be delivered.
But at 7am.

I am now hungover and tired.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 17, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Royal Mail have started texting on the day the parcel is to be delivered.
> But at 7am.
> 
> I am now hungover and tired.


When do you expect them to text.....?

Also, most couriers have an online tracker which will state when your parcel is out for delivery.


----------



## Roadkill (May 17, 2014)

Couriers are, almost without exception, a pain in the arse.  It's one reason I dislike online shopping: maybe I'm just a Luddite, but I much prefer to go to a shop and buy what I want, when I want it, and not have to sit in half the day waiting for someone who you can be pretty certain won't turn up when they say he will, and very probably _will_ turn up when you're eating dinner, in the bath or having a shit!


----------



## Greebo (May 17, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Royal Mail have started texting on the day the parcel is to be delivered.
> But at 7am. <snip>


I suppose it's to catch you before you might have begun your commute.  Early morning texts are one reason I don't usually keep a mobile in the bedroom.


----------



## joustmaster (May 17, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> When do you expect them to text.....?
> 
> Also, most couriers have an online tracker which will state when your parcel is out for delivery.


8 would be a lot more reasonable.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 17, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> 8 would be a lot more reasonable.


Reasonable?  It's not like you have to answer it.  I'm struggling to understand the problem here? By 8 the vans are already out with most couriers.


----------



## joustmaster (May 17, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Reasonable?  It's not like you have to answer it.  I'm struggling to understand the problem here? By 8 the vans are already out with most couriers.


I don't want to be woken up on a saturday morning at 7am by a text message telling me my parcel will be delivered on the day that I paid for it to be delivered on.


----------



## Greebo (May 17, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Reasonable?  It's not like you have to answer it.  I'm struggling to understand the problem here? <snip>


It may depend on what tone you've set for your text alerts.  Mine is loud enough to be heard against a lot of background noise, even when buried deep in my bag.  Therefore enough to jangle you awake.  It could be reset every night and then again every morning, but I've got better things to do than reset both mobiles twice a day.


----------



## maomao (May 17, 2014)

Greebo said:


> It may depend on what tone you've set for your text alerts.  Mine is loud enough to be heard against a lot of background noise, even when buried deep in my bag.  Therefore enough to jangle you awake.  It could be reset every night and then again every morning, but I've got better things to do than reset both mobiles twice a day.


I stick my phone on silent overnight. Anyone who had news important enough to wake me up is either lying next to me or has my landline (so basically just wife and mother).


----------



## Bungle73 (May 22, 2014)

Does anyone have any experience with "Amazon Logistics"?  I'd never heard of them until I placed a recent order with Amazon. Apparently It's Amazon trying to take more control of the courier service or something. Trouble is Googling reveals reams and reams of complaints. I've got something that's supposed to be delivered today (according to the tracking), but it's not nearly 6pm and it hasn't shown up. Apparently they deliver up until 9pm though......


----------



## Bungle73 (May 22, 2014)

Just turned up.


----------



## Ben Barclay (Oct 10, 2014)

Hi, I would like to share my disdain for CL, after my experience I have had a few attempts to notify other innocent members of the public of the risks of sending your valuables via their delivery service. Initially I put up a website citylinkparcels.co.uk, unfortunately their Solicitors managed to contact my ISP to remove this (how very wimpish of them, my ISP that is) I then purchased shittylink.co.uk and citystink.co.uk and again these were removed, quite surprised by this as CL did not feature in the name, so not sure why they assumed it was about them!!

I've now gone for a social media angle, so please 'like n share'



https://www.facebook.com/pages/Shittylink/303352253196162

Power to the People!!!


----------



## Rushy (Oct 10, 2014)

I just had a delivery from DPD. Quite possibly the friendliest pair of delivery guys ever.

(A nice change -  a couple of years ago one of their guys ran me into the kerb as he took a turning into the side road I was exiting too wide and fast. I swore at him - he stopped and threatened me. I took out my phone to film him. He smacked it out of my hand. He didn't realise were only 20yds from a site I was managing and he suddenly found himself surrounded by unimpressed builders. He disappeared sharpish.)

Anyway - that was some time ago - back to today. It felt a bit like I'd been visited by the Lilt Men


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2014)

They sent me another batch of quasi legal threats recently because they didn't like my artistic interpretation of one of their vehicles. They're unhappy because my flying penis  © (TM) appears very high indeed in an image search. 

 

But they wouldn't been as unhappy as I was with their shitty fucking service and weaselly bullshit.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 10, 2014)

editor said:


> They sent me another batch of quasi legal threats recently because they didn't like my artistic interpretation of one of their vehicles. They're unhappy because my flying penis  © (TM) appears very high indeed in an image search.
> 
> View attachment 62245
> 
> But they wouldn't been as unhappy as I was with their shitty fucking service and weaselly bullshit.



subject to the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer, but surely the answer here is to paint a cock on shitty link vehicles wherever possible.

then an'accurate representation' defence might work...


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 25, 2014)

Breaking news: City Link has gone bust!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30602326


----------



## StoneRoad (Dec 25, 2014)

Beaten to it !

Seen this ^^^^ ? editor

PS - Please note that up to 2727 people have just got the shittiest present ever .......


----------



## Sunray (Dec 25, 2014)

Is anyone shedding a tear for these people?  

Obviously people that had no control of their situation losing their job now isn't fun but I can't see how this was anything other than inevitable.  Treating your customers with such contempt, to the point I always offered to pay extra to not use them isn't the best business model.  

There wasn't going to be any winners.


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 25, 2014)

I was going to tag editor on FB so he got the 'good' news asap  but aye, not good for the employees.


----------



## ricbake (Dec 25, 2014)

2700 people losing their jobs and hearing about it on Christmas day 
- go and pick up your own parcels from the 29th.
Used up £40 million investment over the past year 
- What a disaster...


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 25, 2014)

Sounds like they were hemorrhaging cash somewhere in the business, doubt it was on staff wages or maintaining the vehicle fleet. Which begs te question, where did £40m go over the last year when the company claims the turnover was £300m? That makes £340m spent somewhere...


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 25, 2014)

Sunray said:


> Is anyone shedding a tear for these people?
> 
> Obviously people that had no control of their situation losing their job now isn't fun but I can't see how this was anything other than inevitable.  Treating your customers with such contempt, to the point I always offered to pay extra to not use them isn't the best business model.
> 
> There wasn't going to be any winners.


I am sorry for them. Nobody asks to be made redundant on Christmas day. It's all very well saying it was inevitable but I doubt it was the fault of the drivers who were always given far too many parcels to deliver on each run and some of them didn't make any effort to deliver them.


----------



## ricbake (Dec 25, 2014)

It won't be being made redundant for many of them would have been "City Link Partners" ie leasing a van and sub-contracting - they will be hung drawn and quartered financially by the administrators... dire

http://www.city-link.co.uk/ownerdrivers/


----------



## Greebo (Dec 25, 2014)

I feel sorry for the drivers etc laid off.  Unfortunately it's often the people least to blame for a company going tits up who suffer the most when it does.

Still happy that one bad courrier company has got what the people running it well and truly deserved.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 25, 2014)

Greebo said:


> I feel sorry for the drivers etc laid off.  Unfortunately it's often the people least to blame for a company going tits up who suffer the most when it does.
> 
> Still happy that one bad courrier company has got what the people running it well and truly deserved.



The people running it will be able to make off with the loot while other bastards take over their market share, there is no nice story here


----------



## Tankus (Dec 25, 2014)

Delivery service near me use GPS tagged signing machines 

Time date and GPS tag on very parcel dropped off and confirmation that the driver did actually visit your residence ....

Diver mentioned it to me when he dropped off an Amazon parcel ....don't laugh but I think it was yodel


----------



## The Boy (Dec 25, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Sounds like they were hemorrhaging cash somewhere in the business, doubt it was on staff wages or maintaining the vehicle fleet. Which begs te question, where did £40m go over the last year when the company claims the turnover was £300m? That makes £340m spent somewhere...


Private equity owners wasn't it?  So I guess they either fucked up and over-leveraged badly, or they just walked out with pockets full of cash.  Or both.


----------



## StoneRoad (Dec 25, 2014)

The top guys will not be *suffering* but the drivers will not be having such a "happy new year" - although some of the better owner/drivers may be able to get a billet with another courier.


----------



## editor (Dec 26, 2014)

I obviously feel really sorry for the workers, but my hatred for the cunts at the top remains. They're to blame for the company's demise (although a few of their shit drivers haven't helped), but no doubt most of them will not suffer the kind of hardship those at the bottom of the pile can expect.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 26, 2014)

I think it's a combination of the workers and management.

The drivers or even the depot staff colluded in marking parcels as attepted delivery without attempting to deliver them. Clearly in the hope you needed your parcel so much you would pop out to the depot to collect it, saving them the hassle of delivering it. A depot I might add, in the middle of some god forsaken industrial estate, miles from any public transport. They got away doing this for far too long.

Inevitably for city link and its workers, the Internet and the need for the delivery company not to be a thorn in the side of the company that uses them , finally caught up with them.


----------



## ricbake (Dec 26, 2014)

It was a shit company with a lousy management unaware of its own endemic shity work practices. Full of fundamental problems and lacking the will to address them directly.
But telling everyone who works for you to fuck off with no money on Christmas day is a real bastard.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2014)

can you believe these heartless fuckers sacking them off christmas day, lying right up till christmas eve that its business as usual. Who was running the firm-Mr.Potter?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 26, 2014)

i suppose the thread title will have to be amended to keep it meaningful.


----------



## Manter (Dec 26, 2014)

ricbake said:


> It was a shit company with a lousy management unaware of its own endemic shity work practices. Full of fundamental problems and lacking the will to address them directly.
> But telling everyone who works for you to fuck off with no money on Christmas day is a real bastard.


This^^ failure was probably inevitable- but what a shitty way to go about it. 

There have been rumours they were going under for a few weeks too (which made me raise an eyebrow at the union rep on the news) and they can't have been hoping the run up to Christmas would pull them through and then discovered it wouldn't either, as the financial reporting periods don't line up. I can only guess they did it on Christmas Day to avoid having to deal with unions/workers/banks/creditors in full force. Unpleasant.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 26, 2014)

The Boy said:


> Private equity owners wasn't it?  So I guess they either fucked up and over-leveraged badly, or they just walked out with pockets full of cash.  Or both.


The private equity firm, were they the same firm who bought Rover and did the same  there?


----------



## marty21 (Dec 26, 2014)

Just checked, John Moulton of the private equity firm involved with city link was previously working for another private equity firm that tried to buy rover but were unsuccessful, allowing another private equity firm to buy rover and fuck them up.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 26, 2014)

J Ed said:


> The people running it will be able to make off with the loot while other bastards take over their market share, there is no nice story here



Yep. Cuntbuckets like Hermes will be in like Flynn to take over Shitty Link's contracts.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 26, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yep. Cuntbuckets like Hermes will be in like Flynn to take over Shitty Link's contracts.



"In like Flint", surely?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 26, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> "In like Flint", surely?



My version scans better.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 26, 2014)

Manter said:


> This^^ failure was probably inevitable- but what a shitty way to go about it.
> 
> There have been rumours they were going under for a few weeks too (which made me raise an eyebrow at the union rep on the news) and they can't have been hoping the run up to Christmas would pull them through and then discovered it wouldn't either, as the financial reporting periods don't line up. I can only guess they did it on Christmas Day to avoid having to deal with unions/workers/banks/creditors in full force. Unpleasant.


Nah, Christmas day because the run up to Christmas will be their most profitable period, they will have already decided they were going under and ran the business through this period to scrape in as much cash as possible, probably quickly paid out to the parent company/private equity group, before closing yesterday because every day open costs money. Bunch of wankers.


----------



## Manter (Dec 26, 2014)

BigTom said:


> Nah, Christmas day because the run up to Christmas will be their most profitable period, they will have already decided they were going under and ran the business through this period to scrape in as much cash as possible, probably quickly paid out to the parent company/private equity group, before closing yesterday because every day open costs money. Bunch of wankers.


But most of their contracts will be on 30-45 day payment terms....so most of their Christmas business will go the the administrators (which is I imagine why they are paying this month's salaries- it won't be out of the goodness of their hearts, it'll be guaranteed revenue)


----------



## laptop (Dec 26, 2014)

Manter said:


> But most of their contracts will be on 30-45 day payment terms....so most of their Christmas business will go the the administrators (which is I imagine why they are paying this month's salaries- it won't be out of the goodness of their hearts, it'll be guaranteed revenue)



And for what Xmas work will the drivers who CityLink has forced into "freelance" status get paid?


----------



## Manter (Dec 26, 2014)

laptop said:


> And for what Xmas work will the drivers who CityLink has forced into "freelance" status get paid?


Hmmm. Expect they go into the creditor pool and get whatever is left after hmrc have had their cut. So very, very little


----------



## Sunray (Dec 26, 2014)

Workers are 1st in line for any money and should be paid this month.  I'd be looking for a job tomorrow if I were them as that is going to be the last penny they pay to anyone for quite some time to come.  

Contractors are up shit creek really.


----------



## Manter (Dec 26, 2014)

Sunray said:


> Workers are 1st in line for any money and should be paid this month.  /snip


Nope.

Order is:
Administration/liquidation fee
Secured creditors
Preferential creditors- this includes what the employees may be owed, but that comes in a set order- eg back pay before notice, before accrued holiday, before unfair dismissal/redundancy (as appropriate)
Unsecured creditors (unless there is a prescribed part)-this will include contractors
Shareholders

The payment this month has been confirmed which means that there is definitely enough money coming in to cover the first two categories, and probably enough that there is still a chance it can be sold as a going concern. Contractors will get the initial offer in c 3weeks iirc

E2a hmrc are usually preferential, but sometimes have a charge registered so are secured.


----------



## laptop (Dec 26, 2014)

Manter said:


> Nope.
> 
> Order is:
> Administration/liquidation fee
> Secured creditors



Don't HMRC come before secured creditors?


----------



## Manter (Dec 26, 2014)

laptop said:


> Don't HMRC come before secured creditors?


See edit! Secured in this context means there is a charge registered at companies house- so bit different from personal secured debt.


----------



## Manter (Dec 26, 2014)

Though holiday pay may come before notice. Can't remember. In my defence I studied that a long time ago....


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 29, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Sounds like they were hemorrhaging cash somewhere in the business, doubt it was on staff wages or maintaining the vehicle fleet. Which begs te question, where did £40m go over the last year when the company claims the turnover was £300m? That makes £340m spent somewhere...



Impossible to tell without looking at the books but it's a notoriously difficult sector to make money from. Huge costs, massive competition driving down margins, tons of administration and claims against the company. It's a horrible business. City Link has been losing money hand over fist for years. UK Mail (considered a successful delivery firm) made a pre-tax profit of just £5m on a turnover of £250m so clearly a 'less than successful' outfit like City Link could quite easily hemorrhage the kind of dosh quoted.



The Boy said:


> Private equity owners wasn't it?  So I guess they either fucked up and over-leveraged badly, or they just walked out with pockets full of cash.  Or both.



"Over leveraged" in what way? City Link wasn't carrying any bank debt. BC put £40m _in_ after buying it from Rentokil last year for a quid. They publicly wrote down half of that investment at the end of this summer so this hasn't exactly been the bolt from the blue that the media seem to be making of it. They don't seem to have flogged off any assets, so nobody's likely to be walking away from this with pockets full of cash. Quite the opposite.


----------



## maomao (Dec 29, 2014)

Manter said:


> Nope.
> 
> Order is:
> Administration/liquidation fee
> ...



When the transport company I worked for went into administration earlier this year that's exactly what happened. Staff got paid but drivers were treated as unsecured creditors and are still waiting for the 50p in the pound that they've been promised. Some of them had fairly substantial insurance excess funds with the company so we're talking about a lot more than a week's wages.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 29, 2014)

ricbake said:


> It won't be being made redundant for many of them would have been "City Link Partners" ie leasing a van and sub-contracting - they will be hung drawn and quartered financially by the administrators... dire



In what way?


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 29, 2014)

BigTom said:


> Nah, Christmas day because the run up to Christmas will be their most profitable period, they will have already decided they were going under and ran the business through this period to scrape in as much cash as possible, probably quickly paid out to the parent company/private equity group, before closing yesterday because every day open costs money.



No. They haven't "closed" yet. They've gone into administration and xmas business from most clients will be paid in January.


----------



## laptop (Dec 29, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> In what way?



Er, we dealt with that up-thread.

In words of fewer syllables:


People who are forced into being technically "self-employed" are "unsecured creditors".
Being an "unsecured creditor" of a bankrupt company means that: 

the banks, Revenue and employees are before you in line for any cash the company has;
you are on a par with the office bogroll supplier and may get 10p of each pound owed to you if you're lucky and get the paperwork done _just so_.


----------



## maomao (Dec 29, 2014)

laptop said:


> Er, we dealt with that up-thread.
> 
> In words of fewer syllables:
> 
> ...


And in addition if they're driving company vehicles they're likely to have a grand plus held with the company as deposit/insurance excess/knock fund which will be treated the same as any wages owed.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 29, 2014)

laptop said:


> People who are forced into being technically "self-employed" are "unsecured creditors".
> 
> Being an "unsecured creditor" of a bankrupt company means that:
> the banks, Revenue and employees are before you in line for any cash the company has;
> you are on a par with the office bogroll supplier and may get 10p of each pound owed to you if you're lucky and get the paperwork done _just so_.



That's not being "hung drawn and quartered by the administrators". It's what happens when you contract to a company that goes tits up.

And were drivers "forced" into self-employment then? What do you mean by "_technically_ self employed" in this sense? 

Of course it makes huge amounts of sense for an ailing delivery company to contract-out one of its biggest costs (vehicle purchase, maintenance and depreciation) but as far as I'm aware it's industry standard practice and seen positively by the drivers. 

Some years ago we did a lot of work for TNT. They had both employed and self-employed drivers. Most of those employed aspired to becoming self-employed because of the tax advantages and better rates. Don't know about City Link but the downside to slashing your tax bill in this way is reduced security when things go wrong.

CL's competitors are also looking to hoover up their contractors.



> *If you are a City Link Customer and need help moving your goods, or City Link employee or subcontractor
> seeking a new opportunity, please email link@ukmail.com and a member of our team will contact you.*



https://www.ukmail.com/

ETA> City Link did have both employed and self employed drivers:



> *Simon Judd, Essex*
> 
> I'm a sub-contractor with City Link, now find I have a liveried van and no work.
> 
> ...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30603162


----------



## mack (Dec 29, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> No. They haven't "closed" yet. They've gone into administration and xmas business from most clients will be paid in January.



We've just cancelled our direct debit with them - they owe us money on a couple of "lost parcels" - we've been using them for years and generally never had too many problems - but from speaking to the drivers daily over the years it's been getting worse and worse for them, so not surprised they went down.

Had to make a shit load of changes to our website this morning as city link as a delivery option was all over it - so we didn't pick up any orders over the last couple of days


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 29, 2014)

mack said:


> We've just cancelled our direct debit with them - they owe us money on a couple of "lost parcels" -



That's what I'd do. Send them a cheque for anything undisputed and get on the phone to DHL!


----------



## lazythursday (Dec 29, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> That's not being "hung drawn and quartered by the administrators". It's what happens when you contract to a company that goes tits up.



I've been an unsecured creditor twice now as a freelancer and never even ended up with 1p in the pound. It's pretty gutting when you've effectively been paid nothing for a couple of months work. But what was really noticeable in the proceedings was the astronomical amount charged by the administrators for carrying out the administration - it sure doesn't come cheap, shutting companies down. And obviously they get paid first. 

So I don't really see them as neutral in the process - I'm sure they make damn sure they get a decent return and if that means stringing out the process to get a larger percentage of the pie so be it. Perhaps with a company the size of City Link liquidation costs will be a smaller percentage but they're basically just vultures on the corpse.


----------



## StoneRoad (Dec 29, 2014)

I quite agree about the size of the slice that the liquidators/administrators take out of the pie. I was lucky that I had insisted on "employee" status as the last place I worked at - when the banking crisis broke them, I was able to get wages owed etc and the statutory redundancy fund paid that. However, I was signed on for over a year after that. Although I'm working again now, just not in the field in which is covered by most of my qualifications.


----------



## laptop (Dec 29, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> And were drivers "forced" into self-employment then? What do you mean by "_technically_ self employed" in this sense?



If someone is told to set themself up as self-employed or get no work, they are forced into "self-employment".

If someone is working under the close direction of the so-called "client" they are only technically self-employed.

In fact, "close direction" _may _be sufficient for them to fail the Inland Revenue test of _genuine_ self-employment. That means the "client" (read: employer shirking their responsibilities) gets benefits, but they get very few.


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## maomao (Dec 29, 2014)

lazythursday said:


> So I don't really see them as neutral in the process - I'm sure they make damn sure they get a decent return and if that means stringing out the process to get a larger percentage of the pie so be it


Administrators are scum. One of the cunts managed to make one of my staff cry when they were 'running' our company for two weeks. They then turned down an offer from the original owner of the company to pay 100% to the creditors in favour of an offer of 50p in the pound from our main rival and market leader. I have not a moment's doubt that the administrating company did very well out of that deal.


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## Spymaster (Dec 29, 2014)

lazythursday said:


> But what was really noticeable in the proceedings was the astronomical amount charged by the administrators for carrying out the administration - it sure doesn't come cheap, shutting companies down. And obviously they get paid first.
> 
> So I don't really see them as neutral in the process - I'm sure they make damn sure they get a decent return and if that means stringing out the process to get a larger percentage of the pie so be it. Perhaps with a company the size of City Link liquidation costs will be a smaller percentage but they're basically just vultures on the corpse.





StoneRoad said:


> I quite agree about the size of the slice that the liquidators/administrators take out of the pie.



The administrators fee is usually agreed by the creditors or the court that ordered them in, either as a fixed fee or percentage of recoveries. Clearly they have to be first in line to get paid or nobody would do it!


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## maomao (Dec 29, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> And were drivers "forced" into self-employment then? What do you mean by "_technically_ self employed" in this sense?
> 
> Of course it makes huge amounts of sense for an ailing delivery company to contract-out one of its biggest costs (vehicle purchase, maintenance and depreciation) but as far as I'm aware it's industry standard practice and seen positively by the drivers.


In what sense can someone reasonably be said to be self-employed if they are only allowed to work for one company? There may be the odd owner driver who prefers it that way but in my experience of over 15 years in the courier and private hire industries the vast majority of drivers who rent vehicles are aware it's a scam and resent the lack of holiday pay, sick pay, notice on termination of employment and other employment rights generally.


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## Spymaster (Dec 29, 2014)

maomao said:


> There may be the odd owner driver who prefers it that way but in my experience of over 15 years in the courier and private hire industries the vast majority of drivers who rent vehicles are aware it's a scam and resent the lack of holiday pay, sick pay, notice on termination of employment and other employment rights generally.



Who rent vehicles or who own them? 

Ime at TNT the majority of drivers were desperate to operate their own vehicles and employed-driving for many was what they did whilst they got together the necessary stake to buy or lease a van.


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## maomao (Dec 29, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> Ime at TNT the majority of drivers were desperate to operate their own vehicles and employed-driving for many was what they did whilst they got together the necessary stake to buy or lease a van.


That is at odds with everything any van driver I've ever known has said about the job though I have very little experience of TNT as a company. I do not know why you would need to save up to lease a van though. I've never known any company want a full deposit up front for one of their liveried vans, they wouldn't get drivers if they did. It's normally taken at 20-30 pound a week till it's paid up.


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## Spymaster (Dec 29, 2014)

maomao said:


> They then turned down an offer from the original owner of the company to pay 100% to the creditors in favour of an offer of 50p in the pound from our main rival and market leader.



They'd have had to explain that. What was the reasoning? 

Was the offer from the original owner credible and immediate? After all it was the original owner who got the company into administration in the first place. 

Don't get me wrong, there are undoubtedly scumbags out there and "brown envelopes" getting passed about, but there are checks and balances on IPs.


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## maomao (Dec 29, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> They'd have had to explain that. What was the reasoning?
> 
> Was the offer from the original owner credible and immediate? After all it was the original owner who got the company into administration in the first place.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, there are undoubtedly scumbags out there and "brown envelopes" getting passed about, but there are checks and balances on IPs.


The only answer I got directly from the administrators was that they had chosen the option 'that is best for the creditors'. The offer was immediate, I know how much it was for and I know (as in seen bank statements) that the money was really there. The only routes for getting any justice would be a) complaint from creditor and despite them all being told they had grounds for complaint and a lot of grumbling no-one went through with a formal complaint and b) taking the administrators to court which the owner gave up on after the lawyers bill hit 6 figures and decided to use the money to restart instead. There are undoubtedly respectable administrators in the world but we got stitched up by scumbags, a company keeping over 100 people in work essentially dissolved over a 50k debt for which immediate payment was offered.


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## Spymaster (Dec 29, 2014)

maomao said:


> The only answer I got directly from the administrators was that they had chosen the option 'that is best for the creditors'. The offer was immediate, I know how much it was for and I know (as in seen bank statements) that the money was really there. The only routes for getting any justice would be a) complaint from creditor and despite them all being told they had grounds for complaint and a lot of grumbling no-one went through with a formal complaint and b) taking the administrators to court which the owner gave up on after the lawyers bill hit 6 figures and decided to use the money to restart instead.



Yep. Cunts by the sound of it.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 29, 2014)

apparently chukka ummuna (lamebeth? labour)  has written to the dark lord cable urging him to bail citylink out


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## StoneRoad (Dec 31, 2014)

well, the BBC says "City Link announces 2,356 job losses after rescue talks fail"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30646076

I'll challenge that  -  Ernst&Young as the administrators have done the deed, after turning down a bid to buy that they didn't feel happy with.

It is still a shitty trick to pull at this time of year.


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> apparently chukka ummuna (lamebeth? labour)  has written to the dark lord cable urging him to bail citylink out



Yesterday's paper said that the state will pay redundancy money for city link staff, though presumably not for the outside contractors. The private equity owners 'expect' get half of their 40 million back, and presumably they will take this money out of the pot before any actual staff see a penny of it.


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## laptop (Jan 1, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yesterday's paper said that the state will pay redundancy money for city link staff, though presumably not for the outside contractors.



Correct. That's a largish part of the point of taking people on as contractors, POV the company doing the taking-on.



SpookyFrank said:


> The private equity owners 'expect' get half of their 40 million back, and presumably they will take this money out of the pot before any actual staff see a penny of it.



Tuesday's _Financial Times_ confirms that they put their "investment" into the company in the form of a loan secured against assets, not shares - so, yes, they're ahead of most people, certainly the employees.


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## elbows (Jan 1, 2015)

maomao said:


> The only answer I got directly from the administrators was that they had chosen the option 'that is best for the creditors'. The offer was immediate, I know how much it was for and I know (as in seen bank statements) that the money was really there. The only routes for getting any justice would be a) complaint from creditor and despite them all being told they had grounds for complaint and a lot of grumbling no-one went through with a formal complaint and b) taking the administrators to court which the owner gave up on after the lawyers bill hit 6 figures and decided to use the money to restart instead. There are undoubtedly respectable administrators in the world but we got stitched up by scumbags, a company keeping over 100 people in work essentially dissolved over a 50k debt for which immediate payment was offered.



Well one lesson there is not to let the company go into administration, especially if you think you still have a credible plan to save the business. Owners of companies have a lot more options if they pull out all the stops to get their hands on that magic money before administrators come in. But it seems many owners are too used to being in control, they don't realise that they won't necessarily have their offers looked on favourably by administrators, and that they really have lost control of it all at that point.

Administrators can be well shit, but I can't listen to stuff about '50k debt for which immediate payment was offered' without exclaiming 'no, an immediate payment of debt would be one that thwarted administration happening in the first place'. Obviously I don't know all the specifics of events you are referring to, but having had to listen to the revisionist history spouting out of the mouth of my bosses since they managed to kill their main cash cow 3 years ago ('the bank screwed us', with precious few traces of 'we fucked it all up, made specific mistakes that killed the company'), I have some skepticism about how blame is quickly passed on to subsequent mistakes and dubious actors rather than the ones who caused the original collapse.


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## Wilson (Jan 2, 2015)

laptop said:


> Correct. That's a largish part of the point of taking people on as contractors, POV the company doing the taking-on.



It is a largish part but not the whole of the picture by any means, using contractors in the way that they do enables them to avoid a whole load of other business risk and regulation obligations, in this case the worst part for the contractors won't so much be about not being paid their wages so much as the fact that they'll also be losing their costs, the fuel alone for an owner driver in this situation could easily be running to £1000 or more.


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## laptop (Jan 2, 2015)

The _Guardian_'s caught up with this thread:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jan/01/city-link-army-self-employed-count-cost-failure

More detail:



> Last year, City Link docked ["contractor" John Baginton] £75 for missing a morning’s work after he came down with food poisoning. “I rang in sick the night before and I said I didn’t feel well. They rang throughout the morning and asked ‘where are you?’” He went in at lunchtime, still feeling unwell, but found out a week later he had been fined. “I asked my boss: ‘What’s this charge for?’ And he said it would have been £150 if I had missed the whole day. So I had gone in sick and I had basically worked for free.



On the face of it, that obligation to do specified work at a specified time may count against John Baginton's being able to claim expenses against tax... leaving the benefit of the arrangement even more slanted to the company that hired him.

Comments on the article are brimming with suggestions that the "contractors" get legal advice *now*, and that they _may_ be able to claim employees' status including redundancy payments. I'm not so hopeful...


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## Wilson (Jan 2, 2015)

Most of these companies run these type of contracts, if anything citylink's failure is in part due to them being slow off the mark to shed the properly employed drivers in favour of contractors. When DHL-UK became Yodel the new owners did everything they could to shed the employed staff and replace them with contractors as quickly as possible.


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## Cowley (Jan 5, 2015)

Going Going Gone?


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## hash tag (Feb 12, 2015)

There is currently a prog on b2 about parcel delivery, featuring city link. What a nice bunch of hard working people who have no idea whats coming to them. Very sad.


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## Belushi (Oct 14, 2015)

Three directors charged :thumbs :

Three City Link directors to face criminal charges over firm's collapse


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## laptop (Oct 15, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Three directors charged :thumbs :
> 
> Three City Link directors to face criminal charges over firm's collapse





> Lawyers at Leeds-based Morrish Solicitors, which is representing the claimants, believe each person could recover several thousand pounds.







> The case is not expected to be heard until next spring.


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## Bungle73 (Sep 14, 2016)

Amazon Logistics fucked up my order. Was supposed to come today, so I waited in all day for it. This evening it suddenly says it went to the "wrong" depot, even though it was scanned at Maidstone this morning, and Maidstone is only about 10 or so mile from me. Now I have no idea when it's coming.....


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## Chz (Sep 15, 2016)

I actually like it when Amazon bugger up my delivery. Yet another free month of Prime coming my way!


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## bi0boy (Sep 15, 2016)

Currently waiting for my "between 9:00 and 12:00" package which apparently "may be delivered between 8:30 and 18:30" 

I've no idea who the courier is but I wouldn't be surprised if it's whoever has taken over the crown from Citylink.


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