# Shit tagger scrawls all over the Albert bogs: landlord unimpressed



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

The Albert's toilets may exactly not be the finest in the land, but what kind of dickhead does this?

However, it seems that the 'artist' has been recognised so he can be sure of a hearty Brixton welcome if he returns, as I believe several regulars have an opinion to express on his contribution to their local.


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## Manter (Dec 2, 2012)

FFS, that's just rude


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## Badgers (Dec 2, 2012)

Seeing as most the Hootananny punters are down there, they probably wanted to bring the toilet vibe with them


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Apparently there's some sort of police tagging database that reads these tags and attempts to identify the 'artist'.


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## Glitter (Dec 2, 2012)

Tags are just really shit.

There's loads of crime that I can see the point of but vandalism makes no sense to me. Especially writing on walls.


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## Manter (Dec 2, 2012)

Glitter said:


> Tags are just really shit.
> 
> There's loads of crime that I can see the point of but vandalism makes no sense to me. Especially writing on walls.


its like dogs pissing on lampposts.  Territory marking for the un-evolved


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## quimcunx (Dec 2, 2012)

Looks like 'Manter'


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

The guy was lucky he wasn't caught in the act by a regular. Albert regulars tend to be rather protective of their pub.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 2, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Looks like 'Manter'


 
Was just going to say the same thing


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## bi0boy (Dec 2, 2012)

It's on ceramic tiles so can simply be wiped off.


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## Lo Siento. (Dec 2, 2012)

most pub toilets get graffitied at some point, don't they? It's pretty normal...


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> It's on ceramic tiles so can simply be wiped off.


It took two hours to scrape off.


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## bi0boy (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> It took two hours to scrape off.


 
Should have used vodka.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 2, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> most pub toilets get graffitied at some point, don't they? It's pretty normal...


 
The Hand in Hand doesn't.  It's probably the only pub I know that doesn't.  I think people are calmed by the lovely tiling


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## Manter (Dec 2, 2012)




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## gentlegreen (Dec 2, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> It's on ceramic tiles so can simply be wiped off.


1. Why should anyone have to look at it until it is, and 2. why should someone have to clean it off ?


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Should have used vodka.


I didn't realised you'd already analysed the surface and ink.


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## Badgers (Dec 2, 2012)

bi0boy said:
			
		

> It's on ceramic tiles so can simply be wiped off.



You would think so. 
It is faded but still there after an hours scrubbing. 
Worse so on the toilet doors. 
Also on the white walls and tables of the garden.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> The Hand in Hand doesn't. It's probably the only pub I know that doesn't. I think people are calmed by the lovely tiling


It's really rare at the Albert too.


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## Manter (Dec 2, 2012)

Badgers said:


> You would think so.
> It is faded but still there after an hours scrubbing.
> Worse so on the toilet doors.
> Also on the white walls and tables of the garden.


what a nightmare.


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## bi0boy (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> I didn't realised you'd already analysed the surface and ink.


 
I used to work in a lab and we had to buy super special markers that wouldn't get erased by our ethanol sterilisations.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

Um, graffiti is supposed to be done without consent. That's the point of it. Don't think I would be overly precious about bog walls. Used to love all the graffiti in the bogs in the foundry.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Um, graffiti is supposed to be done without consent. That's the point of it. Don't think I would be overly precious about bog walls.


It's my local. I don't want it covered in some dickwad's useless scribble, thanks.


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## gentlegreen (Dec 2, 2012)

Makes me wonder exactly what sort of device this idiot used.
I have to clean permanent marker off of both glass and enamel at work and I don't have to use anything very strong - the manufacturer only admits to meths on the COSSH sheet.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

Didn't this site at least have the pretence of being counter culture or something in the past?

It reads more and more like the Daily Mail by the week.


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## gentlegreen (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Didn't this site at least have the pretence of being counter culture or something in the past?
> 
> It reads more and more like the Daily Mail by the week.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Didn't this site at least have the pretence of being counter culture or something in the past?
> 
> It reads more and more like the Daily Mail by the week.


Oh, does some twat scrawling his shit over the walls of a local boozer represent some sort of counter cultural act in your mind then?


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## Badgers (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> Didn't this site at least have the pretence of being counter culture or something in the past?
> 
> It reads more and more like the Daily Mail by the week.



I don't think this had any 'culture' at all


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> It's really rare at the Albert too.


 
Fortunately some people can see where effort and money has been spent.  I've found the shittier the loo in the first place, the more likely it is to be scrawled on


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## George & Bill (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm not going to stand up for the skill or cultural credibility of the artist, but this does seem like a rather un-thread worthy incident.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Oh, does some twat scrawling his shit over the walls of a local boozer represent some act of counter cultural act in your mind then?



It obviously represents something to the tagger.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Didn't this site at least have the pretence of being counter culture or something in the past?
> 
> It reads more and more like the Daily Mail by the week.



Surely this thread is a joke?

The toilets in The Albert have always had graffitti and stickers all over them. It's only been since the recent refurb that they've not had, and grafc always comes back in the end.


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## RaverDrew (Dec 2, 2012)

Pub toilet graffitied, tell the South London Press to hold the front page, I think we're on to a real story here...


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> Surely this thread is a joke?
> 
> The toilets in The Albert have always had graffitti and stickers all over them. It's only been since the recent refurb that they've not had, and grafc always comes back in the end.



I'm fairly certain at one point bogs round that way had been plastered with (gasp!) stickers that mentioned this very site!


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

There's an article about it somewhere, I'm sure.


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 2, 2012)

I've always thought there should be an art installation of pub toilets with their scrawls and doodlings. "Transient art of the masses in improvised art space" sort of bollocks. Worth at least a nomination for the Turner, surely?


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## 19sixtysix (Dec 2, 2012)

Tagging seems to be the modern equivalent of trainspotting and noting down numbers. I sometime don't mind a bit of graffiti if its got something to say but tagging it just pointless.


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## clicker (Dec 2, 2012)

I went to see the Bronze exhibition in the royal Academy last month, and on exiting via the ladies toilet, found some wag had scrawled on the beech veneer door that .....'Just done a big poo and it looks like bronze'......it made me grin, yes I am probably unevolved.....


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 2, 2012)

There's been stagging in the ladies apparently

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/are-you-stagging-yet.4788/#post-241044


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## Ax^ (Dec 2, 2012)

You be complaining of tossers pissing on the seats next,


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## Gromit (Dec 2, 2012)

I stick to the opinion I've always had. 

Would taggers find it so clever if every time they tagged (something belonging to someone else) their personal property was also subjected to damage of an equivalent level. 

Spray my wall? I'll chuck paint on your favourite pair of jeans etc.


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## bi0boy (Dec 2, 2012)

Gromit said:


> I stick to the opinion I've always had.
> 
> Would taggers find it so clever if every time they tagged (something belonging to someone else) their personal property was also subjected to damage of an equivalent level.
> 
> Spray my wall? I'll chuck paint on your favourite pair of jeans etc.


 
Walls aren't usually personal property

Jeans don't normally enclose public spaces


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

http://www.urban75.org/blog/brixton-signs-and-graffiti-archive-some-shots/

http://www.urban75.org/blog/our-way-anarchy-quality-archive-brixton-graffiti/

Acceptable in New York- http://www.urban75.org/blog/abandoned-diner-357-west-street-lower-manhattan-nyc/

http://www.urban75.org/blog/anarchy-in-manattan-and-other-street-scenes/


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

Gromit said:


> I stick to the opinion I've always had.
> 
> Would taggers find it so clever if every time they tagged (something belonging to someone else) their personal property was also subjected to damage of an equivalent level.
> 
> Spray my wall? I'll chuck paint on your favourite pair of jeans etc.


 


Jesus wept.

I take it you've just cut n pasted this off the Daily Mail comments page?


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## George & Bill (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> http://www.urban75.org/blog/brixton-signs-and-graffiti-archive-some-shots/



Don't see anything there that falls into the same category, TBF.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Don't see anything there that falls into the same category, TBF.


 
There's a photo of the condom machine in the Albert. Maybe you missed it.


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## tendril (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Um, graffiti is supposed to be done without consent. That's the point of it. Don't think I would be overly precious about bog walls. Used to love all the graffiti in the bogs in the foundry.


the foundry ≠ the albert. Time and place innit


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## George & Bill (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> There's a photo of the condom machine in the Albert. Maybe you missed it.



Those are flyers promoting actions. Not pretty or presumably welcomed by the management, but they do have more of an obvious function than tagging, you'd concede.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> http://www.urban75.org/blog/brixton-signs-and-graffiti-archive-some-shots/
> 
> http://www.urban75.org/blog/our-way-anarchy-quality-archive-brixton-graffiti/
> 
> ...


Is there a point containing any kind of vaguely relevant context here?


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## scooter (Dec 2, 2012)

What ever happened to funny graffiti? It's all tags these days


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> There's a photo of the condom machine in the Albert. Maybe you missed it.


Did the landlord have to spend two hours cleaning it off and were other walls and tables in the pub tagged too?

No, so there goes another of your piss weak 'arguments.'


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Don't see anything there that falls into the same category, TBF.


That's because there is none. The easily removed stickers on the Albert loo - from all of ten years ago - were about political actions. I guess Onket can't work out the difference between those and some twat scrawling his name in indelible ink all over the walls and tables.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm fairly certain at one point bogs round that way had been plastered with (gasp!) stickers that mentioned this very site!


There's never been any urban75 stickers.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> There's never been any urban75 stickers.



On discovering I posted here, a non urbanite mate whom was dating someone in Brixton around that time said "oh I've heard of that. There's stickers that say 'Urban75 says...' (or similar) in bogs in pubs around Brixton.


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## DownwardDog (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Oh, does some twat scrawling his shit over the walls of a local boozer represent some act of counter cultural act in your mind then?


 
Doherty: Read the walls not the newspapers.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Did the landlord have to spend two hours cleaning it off and were other walls and tables in the pub tagged too?
> 
> No, so there goes another of your piss weak 'arguments.'


 


You're old. Give it up, Granddad!

You used to take photos of graff and tags for this website of yours, now you moan about it. How times change.

You can deliberately misunderstand my posts all day long, but it doesn't wash, sorry. Why not just admit that you're bitter that 'your' Brixton is changing? Things and places do change over time. Not everyone agrees with all the changes that happen, some of us admit that and are honest and open with our posts on those subjects.

Quite why you intentionally miss the point of anything anyone posts that doesn't already fit within your slim pre-decided opinions is beyond me, but it really doesn't come across well at all. Like I said, you'd genuinely be better off just giving it up.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> That's because there is none. The easily removed stickers on the Albert loo - from all of ten years ago - were about political actions. I guess Onket can't work out the difference between those and some twat scrawling his name in indelible ink all over the walls and tables.


 
You are denying that the Albert toilets have had graff/tags/stickers all over them for years and years, are you?

 Please!


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## gentlegreen (Dec 2, 2012)

What's wrong with wanting the world to steadily improve ?
Is it bourgeois (or Tory or whatever the term is) to want clean and well-ordered public spaces ?


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> You used to take photos of graff and tags for this website of yours, now you moan about it. How times change.


In your attempt to throw around the cheap ageist insults, I  see you're missing the point by a country mile yet again.

It's about *time and place*. Context. Sorry if that's too hard a concept for your brain to grasp.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> You are denying that the Albert toilets have had graff/tags/stickers all over them for years and years, are you?
> 
> Please!


You really have no idea what you're talking about. The Albert bogs are _never_ left covered in tags and graffiti - that's why the landlord spent two hours removing the ones pictured.


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## Firky (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Didn't this site at least have the pretence of being counter culture or something in the past?
> 
> It reads more and more like the Daily Mail by the week.


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## DJ Squelch (Dec 2, 2012)

Apparently this is fine - http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...on-burnt-out-footlocker-store-brixton.279323/


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> On discovering I posted here, a non urbanite mate whom was dating someone in Brixton around that time said "oh I've heard of that. There's stickers that say 'Urban75 says...' (or similar) in bogs in pubs around Brixton.


There has never been any urban75 stickers.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:


> Apparently this is fine - http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...on-burnt-out-footlocker-store-brixton.279323/


Wow. Way to go to miss the point completely.


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## teuchter (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> View attachment 25662
> The Albert's toilets may exactly not be the finest in the land, but what kind of dickhead does this?
> 
> However, it seems that the 'artist' has been recognised so he can be sure of a hearty Brixton welcome if he returns, as I believe several regulars have an opinion to express on his contribution to their local.


 
I like the way you photographed it on your hipstercam with vintage scribbly edge effect applied to emphasise the urban edginess of the subject matter.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I like the way you photographed it on your hipstercam with vintage scribbly edge effect applied to emphasise the urban edginess of the subject matter.


Thanks for the fascinating critique, but I didn't take the picture.


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## paolo (Dec 2, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:


> Apparently this is fine - http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...on-burnt-out-footlocker-store-brixton.279323/


 
That graff actually _says_ something though. At the time it was quite poignant, too.

Tags are a mess. I'm sure some would argue that that is a statement in itself, but you could apply that to anything. Empty some bins in the street. That would also be a statement. Piss in someone's doorway, another 'statement'.

e2a; not sure this particular tagging was worth a thread, but hey ho.


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## TruXta (Dec 2, 2012)

It looks shit and it's a shit thing to do. To associate it with graffiti is absolute fucking bollocks as 99% of graf artists hate taggers with a passion.


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## harpo (Dec 2, 2012)




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## paolo (Dec 2, 2012)

harpo said:


>


 
That's not a tag.


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## DJ Squelch (Dec 2, 2012)

TruXta said:


> 99% of graf artists hate taggers with a passion.


 
Ha,Ha funniest thing I've read in ages.


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## teuchter (Dec 2, 2012)

Is the large "Prince Albert" text on the front of the building a tag?

Is it ok because it is there for commercial reasons, whereas the toilet-tagger's name is not in the toilet for commercial reasons?

We need to examine the role of the tagger in the counter-cultural critique of private property ownership, I feel.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

teuchter said:


> We need to examine the role of the tagger in the counter-cultural critique of private property ownership, I feel.


Feel free to posit your no-doubt riveting take on this.

Perhaps you could invite some keen taggers around your house for research purposes?


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> You really have no idea what you're talking about. The Albert bogs are _never_ left covered in tags and graffiti - that's why the landlord spent two hours removing the ones pictured.


 
Are you denying that the Albert toilets have had graff/tags/stickers all over them for years and years, or are you again deliberately not answering the question being asked?


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> In your attempt to throw around the cheap ageist insults, I see you're missing the point by a country mile yet again.
> 
> It's about *time and place*. Context. Sorry if that's too hard a concept for your brain to grasp.


 
I see, so the *time* has changed by a few years (you have got older), but the *place* is still the same. Even so, it's no longer acceptable. Unless it's somewhere else, presumably. You're a NIMBY.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Feel free to posit your no-doubt riveting take on this. It will be twisted out of context/ignored/sneered at as I see fit.


 
Indeed.


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## Crispy (Dec 2, 2012)

Graffiti in pub toilets?!?!?! OUTRAGE!


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Graffiti in pub toilets?!?!?! OUTRAGE!


 
It's not just that, Crispy. It's in a pub toilet that has never seen the wrong end of a marker pen *ever* before. OMG etc.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> Are you denying that the Albert toilets have had graff/tags/stickers all over them for years and years, or are you again deliberately not answering the question being asked?


The walls haven't been "covered in graff/tags/stickers" for a long time, and whenever some twat scrawls his shit (sorry, makes a "_counter cultural act_") on the walls, it is swiftly removed.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> I see, so the *time* has changed by a few years (you have got older), but the *place* is still the same. Even so, it's no longer acceptable. Unless it's somewhere else, presumably. You're a NIMBY.


You don't half post up some daft shite. I've never liked rubbish tags scrawled all over the walls and tables of my local.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> The walls haven't been "covered in graff/tags/stickers" for a long time, and whenever some twat scrawls his shit (sorry, makes a "_counter cultural act_") on the walls, it is swiftly removed.


 
So, to clarify, they used to be covered, and you used to take pictures of them for this site. But recently it stopped happening and now you agree with that.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> You don't half post up some daft shite. I've never liked rubbish tags scrawled all over the walls and tables of my local.


 
And tables, now. You've snuck in a reference to tables! 

@nimby


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> So, to clarify, they used to be covered, and you used to take pictures of them for this site. But recently it stopped happening and now you agree with that.


Please feel free to post up some examples of the photos I've supposedly taken of the "graffiti covered" toilets in the Albert.

You can post the URLs here:
1.
2.
3.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

TruXta said:


> It looks shit and it's a shit thing to do. To associate it with graffiti is absolute fucking bollocks as 99% of graf artists hate taggers with a passion.



Despite most starting out as taggers themselves.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> And tables, now. You've snuck in a reference to tables!


I mentioned the tables 30 posts ago. Do try and keep up, dopey!


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 2, 2012)

> Shit tagger scrawls his crap over the Albert bogs


 
am i the only one to be mildly relieved that this wasn't meant literally?


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

@Onket Have you found those pictures yet?


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## TruXta (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Despite most starting out as taggers themselves.


Only proves my point.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Please feel free to post up some examples of the photos I've supposedly taken of the "graffiti covered" toilets in the Albert.
> 
> You can post the URLs here:
> 1.
> ...


 
I already have, and you've quoted them. 

As well as many others you've taken elsewhere in Brixton, you know, where you live. But you already know that cos you've quoted them too!  

Do try to keep up, dopey! Etc.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> @Onket Have you found those pictures yet?


 
Have you remembered quoting them yet? 

@editor
@nimby


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Only proves my point.



Not really. Tagging is part of graf artists cutting their teeth. It's like banning all shit bands. You end up with no bands as most bands start out shit.


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> As well as many others you've taken elsewhere in Brixton, you know, where you live.


No, you said I took pictures of the Albert toilets "covered" in graffiti.

Where are these pictures please? No more wriggling now. Post up the URLs.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

I love it how any thread even vaugely about graff decends into people who don't have a clue what they are talking about slagging off taggers whist doing incredibley accurate impressions of Daily Mail readers.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> No, you said I took pictures of the Albert toilets "covered" in graffiti.
> 
> Where are these pictures please? No more wriggling now. Post up the URLs.


 
Stop being an idiot. I've already posted your pic of the Albert bogs, as well as many of your other graff/tagging pics. You're doing yourself no favours simply referring to pics of the Albert toilets "covered" in graffiti.


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## Onket (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> Thread- http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=252261&highlight=graffiti
> 
> Doc-


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## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> Stop being an idiot. I've already posted your pic of the Albert bogs, as well as many of your other graff/tagging pics. You're doing yourself no favours simply referring to pics of the Albert toilets "covered" in graffiti.


You seem to have forgotten your own words! Such a forgetful Onket! Here they are again:





Onket said:


> So, to clarify, they used to be covered, and you used to take pictures of them for this site.


So where are these pictures of the "graffiti covered" walls of the Albert that you claim I took?

Please stop wriggling and post some examples now. Thanks!


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## gentlegreen (Dec 2, 2012)

Onket said:


> I love it how any thread even vaugely about graff decends into people who don't have a clue what they are talking about slagging off taggers whist doing incredibley accurate impressions of Daily Mail readers.


Just out of interest, do you dispose of your gum and other litter properly or is it just pub toilets that need to be vandalised ?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Apparently there's some sort of police tagging database that reads these tags and attempts to identify the 'artist'.


 
Now there's a good use of scarce police resources.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

gentlegreen said:


> Just out of interest, do you dispose of your gum and other litter properly or is it just pub toilets that need to be vandalised ?



I prefer the discarded gum installations devised by middle class socially acceptable gum artists.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 2, 2012)

I don't think I've been in a public washroom in a place like a bar that didn't have something written on the walls. So far, it hasn't hampered my ability to take a piss or a dump.


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## RaverDrew (Dec 2, 2012)

Shame it wasn't more along the lines of this...


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## paolo (Dec 2, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Shame it wasn't more along the lines of this...


 
Always a classic.


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## Crispy (Dec 2, 2012)

Chewing gum on the pavements


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> However, it seems that the 'artist' has been recognised so he can be sure of a hearty Brixton welcome if he returns, as I believe several regulars have an opinion to express on his contribution to their local.


 
What will they do: break his arms?

Cave his skull in?


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## Crispy (Dec 2, 2012)

FAG BURNS ON THE PAYPHONE!!!


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> I don't think I've been in a public washroom in a place like a bar that didn't have something written on the walls. So far, it hasn't hampered my ability to take a piss or a dump.



Funniest pub bog graffiti I've ever read was - Fuck Off Dwyer.  

It wasn't south London either.


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## paolo (Dec 2, 2012)

Crispy said:


> FAG BURNS ON THE PAYPHONE!!!


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Funniest pub bog graffiti I've ever read was - Fuck Off Dwyer.
> 
> It wasn't south London either.


 
The thing you're most likely to see scrawled on the wall in the men's can here, is something like this.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

Sunday bun fight. Nice work, ed.


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## harpo (Dec 2, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> The thing you're most likely to see scrawled on the wall in the men's can here, is something like this.


That is incongruously well drawn.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 2, 2012)

harpo said:


> That is incongruously well drawn.


 
It looks like it's singing Werewolves of London: Awooooooo!


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## boohoo (Dec 2, 2012)

TruXta said:


> It looks shit and it's a shit thing to do. To associate it with graffiti is absolute fucking bollocks as 99% of graf artists hate taggers with a passion.


 
Watch the film style wars. I think tagging is a bit more complex than you lot are talking about. And I think you'll find a fair few graffiti artists did tagging at some point. Maybe you are referring more to street art


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 2, 2012)

I thought everyone was pretty calm considering for the first few posts and then I realised I'd misunderstood the title and the 'artist' hadn't actually used his own shit.


----------



## tufty79 (Dec 2, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> I thought everyone was pretty calm considering for the first few posts and then I realised I'd misunderstood the title and the 'artist' hadn't actually used his own shit.


same


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

@Onket any sign of all these pictures of showing the walls of the Albert "covered" in graffiti yet?


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> I thought everyone was pretty calm considering for the first few posts and then I realised I'd misunderstood the title and the 'artist' hadn't actually used his own shit.


I'll edit the title just in case this one memes up.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> It's my local. I don't want it covered in some dickwad's useless scribble, thanks.


 
Could have been worse. He could have just shat over the walls!

Oh, wait....


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

scooter said:


> What ever happened to funny graffiti? It's all tags these days


 
At least "Dave's cock is 2" long and is scabby" was funny (although not for Dave, obviously!), whereas a tag often takes no more effort than a sneeze. I won't say *all* tags are shit, because occasionally some of them are artistic and/or original, but most of 'em are less original or artistic than howking up a flob onto the pavement. I mean, ffs, most of them are still using wildstyle 30+ years after it first hit the street. Move on, people!


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> I'm not going to stand up for the skill or cultural credibility of the artist, but this does seem like a rather un-thread worthy incident.


118 posts in five and a half hours on a Sunday would say differently.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> It's really rare at the Albert too.


 
Really?  Things have changed!  The bogs were covered in graffiti and stickers when I used to drink there!


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> On discovering I posted here, a non urbanite mate whom was dating someone in Brixton around that time said "oh I've heard of that. There's stickers that say 'Urban75 says...' (or similar) in bogs in pubs around Brixton.


 
The Windmill used to have some.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Despite most starting out as taggers themselves.


 
Doesn't disprove the point, though, given how many taggers spunk their tags over decent graff pieces.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> 118 posts in five and a half hours on a Sunday would say differently.


 
110 of those _weren't arsed_, tbf.


----------



## boohoo (Dec 2, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> ...how many taggers spunk their tags over decent graff pieces.


 
Isn't that the point of tagging? (look at the whole Robbo/Banksy saga) Doesn't matter how well executed the piece is, it's about getting your name out there.

As mentioned earlier, watch film called Style Wars about NY subway graffiti - - made in 1983.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/style-wars/  - whole film here  - everyone watch then lets return to the conversation.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Really? Things have changed! The bogs were covered in graffiti and stickers when I used to drink there!


 
Basically, you lowered the tone, mate.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

boohoo said:


> Isn't that the point of tagging? (look at the whole Robbo/Banksy saga) Doesn't matter how well executed the piece is, it's about getting your name out there.


 
And that's what makes it shit. No art, no meaning, just a name scribbled (or etched) in vaguely-readable script. At least make it interesting, for fuck's sake!



> As mentioned earlier, watch film called Style Wars about NY subway graffiti - - made in 1983.
> 
> http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/style-wars/ - whole film here - everyone watch then lets return to the conversation.


 
Saw it at (IIRC) Southbank in about 1985.


----------



## Yossarian (Dec 2, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Really? Things have changed! The bogs were covered in graffiti and stickers when I used to drink there!


 
Are you sure? Could you recommend any websites that might have photographic evidence of this?

http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/brix038.html


----------



## Yossarian (Dec 2, 2012)

.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> The thing you're most likely to see scrawled on the wall in the men's can here, is something like this.


 
Whoever drew that had a Cavalier as a model.


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Yossarian said:


> Are you sure? Could you recommend any websites that might have photographic evidence of this?
> 
> http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/brix038.html


I've looked hard but there doesn't appear to be any scenes of walls 'covered' in tagging there. Perhaps Onket will be along soon to share the URLs of all these photos which I apparently took.


----------



## armshouse89 (Dec 2, 2012)

shut up u welsh prick no cares about the toilets in the shitty albert


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

armshouse89 said:


> shut up u welsh prick no cares about the toilets in the shitty albert


LOL. Oh, and byeee!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

armshouse89 said:


> shut up u welsh prick no cares about the toilets in the shitty albert


 
Go fuck your mother, ya xenophobic cunt!

You'll have to wait until I've finished with her, like.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> LOL. Oh, and byeee!


 
Spoilsport!


----------



## Corax (Dec 2, 2012)

armshouse89 said:


> shut up u welsh prick no cares about the toilets in the shitty albert


I hadn't considered it like that.  Can't say that I'm entirely convinced, but it's certainly an interesting point you make.


----------



## boohoo (Dec 2, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> And that's what makes it shit. No art, no meaning, just a name scribbled (or etched) in vaguely-readable script. At least make it interesting, for fuck's sake!


 
I know what you mean - all of tagging generally looks crap. However, lots of people don't like stencil art, street art, graffiti art, murals - who makes the rules about what looks shit and what doesn't look shit.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

boohoo said:


> As mentioned earlier, watch film called Style Wars about NY subway graffiti - - made in 1983.
> 
> http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/style-wars/  - whole film here  - everyone watch then lets return to the conversation.



I might have seen that. Do some kids do a burn on some subway train and then wait for it to emerge in all its glory the following day and celebrate when it appears?

Or maybe I've just seen another famous New York graffiti docu from the 80s.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2012)

There's another one (or perhaps the same one?) where they had WOLVES guarding the subway trains. Pity that Wolves generally fear humans.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

boohoo said:


> I know what you mean - all of tagging generally looks crap. However, lots of people don't like stencil art, street art, graffiti art, murals - who makes the rules about what looks shit and what doesn't look shit.


 
You see, I've absolutely no problem with any of those forms you mention - they're art, and they're something someone has put some thought and perhaps part of themself into. A tag, though? Too often it's just a splat, with no more thought behind it than farting.

As for shit/not shit, my usual gauge is: Does it detract from or add to the environment? I love the graff on the S-Bahn stations in Berlin because most of it is sloganeering, or at least *painted* tags where some effort has been made to be decorative, and I enjoy a lot of the stuff that turns up in unexpected places. I can still remember the anti-nuke stuff at the start of Kings' Avenue more than a decade after I last saw it. It added to the environment because it made people seeing it for the first time *think* about Cruise and Trident.


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

boohoo said:


> I know what you mean - all of tagging generally looks crap. However, lots of people don't like stencil art, street art, graffiti art, murals - who makes the rules about what looks shit and what doesn't look shit.


Sure, but I still think scrawling over the walls and tables of a community pub is out of order though.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Sure, but I still think scrawling over the walls and tables of a community pub is out of order though.


 
Not as out of order as scrawling all over my front wall.....cunts!


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 2, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Should have used vodka.


To help pass the time whilst scrubbing?


----------



## shygirl (Dec 2, 2012)

Maybe the scribbling is an expression of alienation felt by many arising from ever-growing presence of educated, self-assured, confident middle-class people in local bars and eateries.


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

shygirl said:


> Maybe the scribbling is an expression of alienation felt by many arising from ever-growing presence of educated, self-assured, confident middle-class people in local bars and eateries.


I could be wrong but my money is on the culprit being educated, self-assured, confident and middle-class.


----------



## shygirl (Dec 2, 2012)

Maybe the scribbling is an expression of alienation felt by some in the face of an ever-growing presence of educated, self-assured, confident middle-class people in local bars and eateries.  Making your mark in a not too pretty way, but making it nonetheless.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 2, 2012)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Not as out of order as scrawling all over my front wall.....cunts!


 
Are you sure your wall isn't a brutalist imposition of urban monotony?


----------



## Athos (Dec 2, 2012)

Hanging is too good for them. Bring back corporal punishment and national service. Etc.


----------



## Athos (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> I could be wrong but my money is on the culprit being educated, self-assured, confident and middle-class.



Why?


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Athos said:


> Why?


Based on who was in the pub last night.


----------



## Athos (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> Based on who was in the pub last night.



Usual crowd, then.


----------



## Corax (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Sure, but I still think scrawling over the walls and tables of a community pub is out of order though.


Where _is_ it appropriate then?  Aren't all non-private spaces 'community' spaces?

I'm no fan of tagging as it goes.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 2, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Are you sure your wall isn't a brutalist imposition of urban monotony?


 
I will be a brutalist imposition if I catch the fucks!


----------



## High Voltage (Dec 2, 2012)

Branding Tagging's too good for them


----------



## shygirl (Dec 2, 2012)

A


editor said:


> I could be wrong but my money is on the culprit being educated, self-assured, confident and middle-class.


Ah, you obviously know something I don't! 

But generally speaking, when it comes to self-expression, not everyone has the skill, confidence, talent or whatever to do it in a way that 'is interesting', 'edgy', 'artistic'.  Some young people I have worked with are terrified to 'represent' themselves on paper, 'cos fundamentally they feel they have nothing to offer.  Someone further up the thread referred to the woman who wrote the piece about poo and bronze as a wag, er, wtf?  There's a lot of snobbish attitudes and value judgements made on these threads, often making for uncomfortable reading.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 2, 2012)

Went in to see for myself, my feeling was that it didn't have a negative impact on the ambience of the premises, still superior to the Market House in all respects and  to my delight untarnished by excessive levels of shrill over excitable chitter chatter. Actually the toy dog ( pomeranian?) in a stripy knitted sweater that I saw in the MarketHouse was much
 more offensive to my sensibilities than any amount of petty vandalism


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2012)

Glitter said:


> Tags are just really shit.
> 
> There's loads of crime that I can see the point of but vandalism makes no sense to me. Especially writing on walls.


Writing on walls makes no sense to you?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> It's my local. I don't want it covered in some dickwad's useless scribble, thanks.


Much classier to have stickers


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 2, 2012)

I blame Thatcher


----------



## Athos (Dec 2, 2012)

cuppa tee said:


> Went in to see for myself, my feeling was that it didn't have a negative impact on the ambience of the premises, still superior to the Market House in all respects and to my delight untarnished by excessive levels of shrill over excitable chitter chatter. Actually the toy dog ( pomeranian?) in a stripy knitted sweater that I saw in the MarketHouse was much
> more offensive to my sensibilities than any amount of petty vandalism


That reminds me.  I saw some dog mess on the street the other day.  After alerting the Parish Council, I think I'll start a thread.


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Athos said:


> Usual crowd, then.


Actually, no.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 2, 2012)

lolthread.


----------



## Athos (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> Actually, no.


 
Anyway, I seem to remember you and I discussing tagging before:  http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/camden-tube-station-platforms-covered-in-graffiti.118506/


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

Athos said:


> Anyway, I seem to remember you and I discussing tagging before: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/camden-tube-station-platforms-covered-in-graffiti.118506/


That's great to know. Thanks for that.


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 2, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> The thing you're most likely to see scrawled on the wall in the men's can here, is something like this.


 
That looks to be uncircumcised.  I'd kind of assumed the Canadians were in line with the US on that subject.


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> That looks to be uncircumcised. I'd kind of assumed the Canadians were in line with the US on that subject.


It looks like it's singing a note.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Dec 2, 2012)

editor said:


> It looks like it's singing a note.


 
a high P?


----------



## Manter (Dec 2, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> That looks to be uncircumcised.  I'd kind of assumed the Canadians were in line with the US on that subject.


No.... Reading somewhere the Canadians have low levels of circumcision, as does most of the western world. The Americans are an anomaly


----------



## Corax (Dec 2, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> That looks to be uncircumcised. I'd kind of assumed the Canadians were in line with the US on that subject.


It's not just that it's uncut - it looks like it has phimosis.


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 2, 2012)

*googles furiously*


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 2, 2012)

Not including Muslims and Jews, Canada is around 30%, America is 75%, the UK is 6%

Link

</derail>


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 2, 2012)

I think it may well be within norms.  But as googled images for phimosis   mostly shows foreskins in the painfully retracted position it's hard to tell. 

*punches @corax in the phimosis*


----------



## Manter (Dec 2, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> *googles furiously*


I have just found restoringforeskin.org. 

With photos.

Holy shit....!


----------



## harpo (Dec 2, 2012)

harpo said:


>


 
I took this today in Walthamstow.  It's just appeared.


----------



## heinous seamus (Dec 2, 2012)

I remember writing 'I'm doing a jobby' on the bogs of the uni library. I was doing a jobby at the time.


----------



## Corax (Dec 2, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> googled images for phimosis


looooooooooooooooooooooooooool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Corax (Dec 2, 2012)

When at school I used to write "The Red Pen was here" and similar in a red whiteboard marker.  I had competition from others, such as The Green Pen and The Blue Pen.  It was one of those things that seemed incredibly clever and funny at 13, but a bit  now.


----------



## harpo (Dec 2, 2012)

I wrote out most of the words of Sir Henry at Rawlinson End on the wall of a pub bog in Liverpool (the bar of Liverpool Poly to be precise).  It took many visits.  People left comments as I went along, like 'what is this shite?' and other more constructive stuff.  I didn't manage the whole script before I had to leave the area.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Not as out of order as scrawling all over my front wall.....cunts!


 
They scrawled cunts all over your front wall??

Rotten bastards!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

shygirl said:


> Maybe the scribbling is an expression of alienation felt by many arising from ever-growing presence of educated, self-assured, confident middle-class people in local bars and eateries.


 
No, you express that by stealing their drinks.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2012)

Corax said:


> When at school I used to write "The Red Pen was here" and similar in a red whiteboard marker. I had competition from others, such as The Green Pen and The Blue Pen. It was one of those things that seemed incredibly clever and funny at 13, but a bit  now.


 
Was The Green Pen a bit of an "Angry of Tunbridge Wells" type?


----------



## pesh (Dec 2, 2012)

i vaguely remember there was a huge U75 throwup on the the front of a boarded up pub on Brixton Hill for a few years in the early to mid 2000s

i always wondered who'd done it when i went past it on the bus.


----------



## tendril (Dec 2, 2012)

heinous seamus said:


> I remember writing 'I'm doing a jobby' on the bogs of the uni library. I was doing a jobby at the time.


My favourite bit of lavatory graffiti:

Some come here to sit and think
And some come here to shit and stink
But I come here to scratch my balls
And read the writing on the walls


----------



## Crispy (Dec 2, 2012)

pesh said:


> i vaguely remember there was a huge U75 throwup on the the front of a boarded up pub on Brixton Hill for a few years in the early to mid 2000s
> 
> i always wondered who'd done it when i went past it on the bus.


nah that was the old Russell Hotel on Brixton Road toward Oval


----------



## pesh (Dec 2, 2012)

ahh yeah, that was it.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 2, 2012)

must admit I used to tag, in the metro, when I was 16, then some prick nicked my tagline :'(
fuck'em
fuck'em all


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 3, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Shame it wasn't more along the lines of this...


not a tag though


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> not a tag though


Indeed. It actually has a message and is readable. 

Every time I leave my house I have to look at some fucking shit tag which some twat sprayed right next to my front door.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 3, 2012)

tendril said:


> My favourite bit of lavatory graffiti:
> 
> Some come here to sit and think
> And some come here to shit and stink
> ...


not a tag either, nice to read.
/reformed tagger
kilroy woz here!


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Whoever drew that had a Cavalier as a model.


 
Actually, a true Vancouver cock and balls graffiti would be modeled on a Roundhead.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Sure, but I still think scrawling over the walls and tables of a community pub is out of order though.


 
Tables and pub walls I agree: but it's pretty common on pub bathroom walls.

Has anyone brought this up yet: is graffiti typical in women's pub bogs etc? If you think about it, this has been a pretty sexist discussion so far. [I'm making the assumption that the Editor didn't take those photos in the women's loo]


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 3, 2012)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> not a tag either, nice to read.
> /reformed tagger
> kilroy woz here!


 
My favorite:

Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny


another fave:

We go scuzie!


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 3, 2012)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I will be a brutalist imposition if I catch the fucks!


 
Maybe you and the ed can get matching baseball bats.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 3, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> That looks to be uncircumcised. I'd kind of assumed the Canadians were in line with the US on that subject.


Just because we live on the same continent doesn't mean we have the same dick style.

I'm not sure where Mexicans fit into the debate.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 3, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Has anyone brought this up yet: is graffiti typical in women's pub bogs etc?


 
It's probably worse unfortunately.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 3, 2012)

Crispy said:


> nah that was the old Russell Hotel on Brixton Road toward Oval


 
in all its.... somewhat photoshoped glory


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 3, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> Not including Muslims and Jews, Canada is around 30%, America is 75%, the UK is 6%
> 
> Link
> 
> </derail>


Ah, but how often does the bog graffiti in each country relate to those figures? 

When I think of UK penis graffiti I think of this:


----------



## tendril (Dec 3, 2012)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> not a tag either, nice to read.
> /reformed tagger
> kilroy woz here!


oldskool innit. Yuut uv today jus don ave da rimes innit.


----------



## Elgar (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Indeed. It actually has a message and is readable.
> 
> Every time I leave my house I have to look at some tag which some twat sprayed right next to my front door.


Report it. They'll clean it off in just a few days. 

Graffiti removal is possibly the only thing Lambeth is competent at.
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/Environment/EnvironmentalCrime/Graffiti.htm


----------



## Athos (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> Indeed. It actually has a message and is readable.



You don't think a tag conveys a message? If only that the tagger was there and that he rejects the mainstream social norms regarding private property and the law. Maybe not a message you'd endorse, but a message, no?


----------



## Athos (Dec 3, 2012)

stuff_it said:
			
		

> Ah, but how often does the bog graffiti in each country relate to those figures?
> 
> When I think of UK penis graffiti I think of this:



Lovely stuff. As seen in every French textbook throughout my time at school. I actually feel quite nostalgic for the 'old-school cock and balls with spiky pubes and jizz splash' graffiti.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

tendril said:


> My favourite bit of lavatory graffiti:
> 
> Some come here to sit and think
> And some come here to shit and stink
> ...



I read a variation:

Some come here to sit and think
Some come here to wonder
I come here to shit and stink
And fart like fucking thunder


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

Also:

The painter's work
Was all in vain
The shithouse poet 
Strikes again

Sometimes followed by:

The shithouse poet
Is out of luck
The painter doesn't
Give a fuck


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 3, 2012)

Should just leave white board pens in the loos so people can tag to their heart's content.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

Editor in not real urbans shocker on this one. The OP is the oppostite of what you'd expect.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Also:
> 
> The painter's work
> Was all in vain
> ...


Seen in a university toilet:

here I sit in my own vapour
cos some fucker's nicked the paper


----------



## Ms T (Dec 3, 2012)

A late entry for thread of the year?


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> It took two hours to scrape off.





bi0boy said:


> Should have used vodka.


 


Badgers said:


> You would think so.
> It is faded but still there after an hours scrubbing.
> Worse so on the toilet doors.
> Also on the white walls and tables of the garden.


 
Should have used graffiti removal spray.  Melts it off in seconds.

I know this because I spent hours scrubbing graffiti off a wall then watched some bloke spray this shit on another wall and finish up in 5 minutes flat.


----------



## zenie (Dec 3, 2012)

I'm not sure why such a big deal was made about it, apart from the fact that the guys involved drink in the pub so it's a bit like shitting on your own doorstop. There used to be tonnes of graffiti in the ladies.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Elgar said:


> Report it. They'll clean it off in just a few days.


It was reported three years ago!


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Athos said:


> You don't think a tag conveys a message? If only that the tagger was there and that he rejects the mainstream social norms regarding private property and the law.


LOL.


----------



## boohoo (Dec 3, 2012)

Athos said:


> You don't think a tag conveys a message? If only that the tagger was there and that he rejects the mainstream social norms regarding private property and the law. Maybe not a message you'd endorse, but a message, no?


 
Exactly! People like Tox who got everywhere were showing that they could. Tagging trumps. The fact everyone knows of Tox shows how well it worked. ( though he is banged up )


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

boohoo said:


> Exactly! People like Tox who got everywhere were showing that they could. Tagging trumps. The fact everyone knows of Tox shows how well it worked. ( though he is banged up )


Can you name any other taggers?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

Here's something I can see from my window. Apologies for the bad quality of the photo.​​There is a big plastic sign saying "BIZSPACE" and advertising offices to let. There are also several tags; one is enormous and says something like "YOWSR" and the other something like "BRA". There are others that are not visible in the photo.​​If someone told me that I could choose one for removal, I would choose the big plastic BIZSPACE sign and keep the rest.​​I assume Editor would choose one of the grafitti tags for removal and keep the BIZSPACE sign, based on his dubious distinction between signs that carry a message and those that don't.​​If I have wrongly deducted this, then I would be interested to hear Editor's thoughts on the matter.​​​


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2012)

There's one round my way who is fairly prominent. Couldn't actually name them right now, but that's more to do with my memory...

Something like Atom, only not a real word I think. Sure it begins with an A...

e2a: Akon!

Maybe...


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I assume Editor would choose one of the grafitti tags for removal and keep the BIZSPACE sign, based on his dubious distinction between signs that carry a message and those that don't.


I don't like either and wouldn't want either on my building.

And just to correct an assumption that you seem to be running with here: I'm not against all graffiti and have posted up about stuff I've liked in the past, but I fail to see any merit in some twat tagging this particular pub. Scrawling over the walls and tables of a community boozer like the Albert is out of order, in my opinion.


----------



## snowy_again (Dec 3, 2012)

Why is the albert in particular a 'community boozer'?


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

So graffiti is OK if it's to your liking and in someone else's back yard?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Why is the albert in particular a 'community boozer'?


because it's not a vertical drinking establishment


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So graffiti is OK if it's to your liking and not in your back yard?


if there's graffiti in my back yard, i prefer it to be because i've put it there


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## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Why is the albert in particular a 'community boozer'?


 
Because no-one makes a profit out of it and all the people who use it are officially certified as local community members.


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So graffiti is OK if it's to your liking and not in your back yard?


Wow. Some real dishonest twisting there. Where have I ever said that I'm against all graffiti in Brixton?


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## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

snowy_again said:
			
		

> Why is the albert in particular a 'community boozer'?



Because it gives all its profits away to local people.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Because it gives all its profits away to local people.


shurely 'because it sources its products locally'


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## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't like either and wouldn't want either on my building.


 
So, do you also want the "PRINCE ALBERT" tag removed from the front of the Albert?


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Because no-one makes a profit out of it and all the people who use it are officially certified as local community members.


Ah, here's Mr Clueless again, ready to embarrass himself once more by showing off his startling ignorance of Brixton.


----------



## boohoo (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Can you name any other taggers?


10foot ... generally I ignore the tags but my other half points them out and the different names and whose been around for ages or not. The tags also have a story and a history behind them and the people from the graffiti scene will have some idea who people are and if they have moved onto bigger and better things.

And maybe some of the people who are doing it today come from middle class backgrounds but I get the impression that the original creators of tagging and bombing were kids from the rougher parts of town.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Why is the albert in particular a 'community boozer'?


There's other boozers that I'd describe as 'community boozers' around Brixton too. Surely you can work out why?


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> So, do you also want the "PRINCE ALBERT" tag removed from the front of the Albert?


You appear to be losing the plot again.


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## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

The Essential Flyposting Guide




> *Why flypost?*





> Why not? Why be shy about what you want to say to the world? Almost all the information that reaches people in our society about the world around us goes through channels ('the media') which are controlled and mostly owned by people with a huge vested interest in keeping society how it is.
> 
> While some stuff which challenges this gets through, the vast majority of news and views that reaches people is confined within very narrow boundaries - anything outside those boundaries is labelled as 'extremist', and easily dismissed.
> 
> All sorts of dodgy people pay huge amounts of money to designers and councils to paste their consumerism bullshit all over our streets - why shouldn't you have your say?


 


> *What to post:*
> 
> 
> Anything you like. Information you want people to know, events that are happening and news that never gets in the 'mainstream' media.
> ...


 



> Don't be ashamed to put up really rough-looking stuff. The important thing is getting the message across - and no-one knows it's you anyway!


 



> Our favourite spots include disused buildings, lampposts, tube stations, backs of buses (if you're cheeky enough!), street furniture, pub toilets and even (yes we did this to a Radio One DJ once!) someone's back!


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## Kanda (Dec 3, 2012)

Is the Albert brewery owned or a Free House??


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> There's other boozers that I'd describe as 'community boozers' around Brixton too. Surely you can work out why?


i'd guess the windmill and hobgoblin, and imagine it's because of an assocation with u75.


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Because it gives all its profits away to local people.


Try Googling the phrase 'community pubs' if you're having problems understanding such a simple and well understood concept.


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## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> You appear to be losing the plot again.


 
You appear to be not answering the question again.


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't like either and wouldn't want either on my building.
> 
> And just to correct an assumption that you seem to be running with here: I'm not against all graffiti and have posted up about stuff I've liked in the past, but I fail to see any merit in some twat tagging this particular pub. Scrawling over the walls and tables of a community boozer like the Albert is out of order, in my opinion.


I suspect at least part of the issue is that "this particular pub" also happens to be your local, as you've said yourself, and that's when it starts to smack of nimby-ism.

I presume you'd have a problem with this sort of thing in any community pub (however a 'community pub' differs from a regular pub  )?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Try Googling the phrase 'community pubs' if you're having problems understanding such a simple and well understood concept.


ah! you mean locals' boozers.


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> The Essential Flyposting Guide


Is flyposting the same as scraswling all over the walls and tables of a local pub in your deeply confused world then?


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## boohoo (Dec 3, 2012)

Which boozers in Brixton aren't community boozers ? I would imagine new ones have had no time to establish regulars from the local area.

It would be nice if all boozers didn't get tagged unless that was something they were encouraging - like the Foundry


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> I suspect at least part of the issue is that "this particular pub" also happens to be your local, as you've said yourself, and that's when it starts to smack of nimby-ism.


I don't want some twat rocking up into my local pub and scrawling his shit all over the tables and walls, and causing extra work for its staff. What's NIMBY about that?


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## boohoo (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Is flyposting the same as scraswling all over the walls and tables of a local pub in your deeply confused world then?


 
Some people would find flyposting as irritating as tagging.


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## fogbat (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Funniest pub bog graffiti I've ever read was - Fuck Off Dwyer.
> 
> It wasn't south London either.


East London somewhere...

Pub since closed?


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## stuff_it (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't like either and wouldn't want either on my building.
> 
> And just to correct an assumption that you seem to be running with here: I'm not against all graffiti and have posted up about stuff I've liked in the past, but I fail to see any merit in some twat tagging this particular pub. Scrawling over the walls and tables of a community boozer like the Albert is out of order, in my opinion.


Are there many 'proper' graffiti artists that haven't started out tagging?


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

boohoo said:


> Which boozers in Brixton aren't community boozers ? I would imagine new ones have had no time to establish regulars from the local area.


The Prince never seems to have established much of a community vibe, partly because it seems to keep on changing. I haven't been there for a while though, so perhaps its changed.


boohoo said:


> It would be nice if all boozers didn't get tagged unless that was something they were encouraging - like the Foundry


Tagging can look just fine in pubs where the management are clearly happy with it.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

boohoo said:


> Some people would find flyposting as irritating as tagging.


I don't see much flyposting going on around the tables of walls of local pubs.


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## cuppa tee (Dec 3, 2012)

> Graffiti legend CAP from the Bronx, New York City, is one of the most accomplished graffiti artists of all time painting outlaw graffiti in the 1980's of New York, with his trademark original gangster CAP throw-up becoming the most recognized throw-up in the world with the release of style wars in 1982.


http://knowngallery.com/kg-collection/cap-one


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Are there many 'proper' graffiti artists that haven't started out tagging?


I've no idea, but I'm pretty sure pub walls aren't essential training canvasses for their art.


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't want some twat rocking up into my local pub and scrawling his shit all over the tables and walls, and causing extra work for its staff. What's NIMBY about that?


Because, as has been pointed out before, and by you I think, you're clearly not against _all_ graffiti, so the fact you're against it in your local at least creates the impression that you're happy for it to be elsewhere, just not in your own pub. A kind of graffiti tourism, if you will.

I'm not saying that is the case, just that that's the impression some might take.

Another angle - what if the graffiti was more accomplished, but still on the Albert toilet walls?

For the record, I'm not a great fan of shit tags either. I appreciate the argument that people have got to start somewhere, but I also figure that somewhere could be a bit less of a communal area. That's not expressed very well.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Because, as has been pointed out before, and by you I think, you're clearly not against _all_ graffiti, so the fact you're against it in your local at least creates the impression that you're happy for it to be elsewhere, just not in your own pub. A kind of graffiti tourism, if you will.


It wasn't graffiti. It was tagging. And it caused a load of extra work for the staff.


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## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Is flyposting the same as scraswling all over the walls and tables of a local pub in your deeply confused world then?


 
Well, apparently, if you are flyposting it's recommended to post "anything you like" in places like "pub toilets". So I was thinking that tags would come under the definition of "anything you like", and that the Albert's toilets would come under the definition of "pub toilets".

The only difference in my confused world is that flyposting involves the additional media of paper and glue. Is that the significant difference? From now on when I tag pub toilets I am going to do my tag on photoshop and print it on bits of paper, and stick them up. Hopefully henceforth I will be fully compliant with all relevant regulations.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Well, apparently, if you are flyposting it's recommended to post "anything you like" in places like "pub toilets". So I was thinking that tags would come under the definition of "anything you like", and that the Albert's toilets would come under the definition of "pub toilets".
> 
> The only difference in my confused world is that flyposting involves the additional media of paper and glue. Is that the significant difference? From now on when I tag pub toilets I am going to do my tag on photoshop and print it on bits of paper, and stick them up. Hopefully henceforth I will be fully compliant with all relevant regulations.


glue isn't a medium


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## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

I think tagging's on a par with those people who go round shitting in public places for their own amusement. I love graffiti and I'm always reading fly-posters. I like the design of a lot of flyers but tags = unimaginative cunts in my book. If you're going to graf something at least ad something of artistic/humorous merit to it.


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## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't see much flyposting going on around the tables of walls of local pubs.


 
But the tables or walls would come under the definition of "anywhere you like" though, no?


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> But the tables or walls would come under the definition of "anywhere you like" though, no?


By that argument you may as well include the wings of aircraft in flight and coal mines. Another great point teuchter!


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 3, 2012)

tendril said:


> My favourite bit of lavatory graffiti:
> 
> Some come here to sit and think
> And some come here to shit and stink
> ...


 
I prefer the version where the last two lines are:

some come here to sit and wonder
then shit and piss and fart like thunder


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## snowy_again (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Try Googling the phrase 'community pubs' if you're having problems understanding such a simple and well understood concept.


 
Yes thanks, I was vaguely involved in that report, which is predominantly around the economics of tied pubs & the pubco sector, and the role of pubs in the high st. It itself struggles to define a community pub:

"What is a community pub? A ‘community pub’ is not easy to define, largely because there is no such thing as a typical British pub and, if anything, the range of bars and drinking establishments has become more varied in recent years" and then concludes that it's somewhere where you can drink booze and interact with the local community.

Which I suspect is 90% of Brixton pubs. I'm looking forward to regular updates on the state of their toilets.

The 'activity hubs' model isn't some thing that the Albert currently offers. I dread to think what this place would be like if they installed a mini post office in there.


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> It wasn't graffiti. It was tagging. And it caused a load of extra work for the staff.


Surely as does any graffiti/tagging in any privately owned space?


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> I'm looking forward to regular updates on the state of their toilets.


Feel free to start a blog if you're that interested.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Surely as does any graffiti/tagging in any privately owned space?


Not always.


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## bi0boy (Dec 3, 2012)

If I managed pub toilets I'd be sure to have an arsenal of graffiti-removing tools at my disposal to ensure minimum "extra work for staff".

Graffiti can be removed in seconds with the right stuff, there's really no need to take it out on your staff.


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## snowy_again (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Feel free to start a blog if you're that interested.


You seem to be doing it perfectly well.


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## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> By that argument you may as well include the wings of aircraft in flight and coal mines. Another great point teuchter!


 
um... right. Yes. Eh?


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> If I managed pub toilets I'd be sure to have an arsenal of graffiti-removing tools at my disposal to ensure minimum "extra work for staff".
> 
> Graffiti can be removed in seconds with the right stuff, there's really no need to take it out on your staff.


How much would that cost though? Plus, should pubs really have to put up with it in the first place?

I don't have an answer for either question, for what it's worth.


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Graffiti can be removed in seconds with the right stuff, there's really no need to take it out on your staff.


You should market this magical product because there seems to be no shortage of evidence of people having real trouble removing tagging from some surfaces.


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> If I managed pub toilets I'd be sure to have an arsenal of graffiti-removing tools at my disposal to ensure minimum "extra work for staff".
> 
> Graffiti can be removed in seconds with the right stuff, there's really no need to take it out on your staff.


If I managed pub toilets I think I'd stick blackboards up and leave boxes of chalk out instead of soap


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## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> You seem to be doing it perfectly well.


I've started one thread about one pub which happens to be my local. If you're that fascinated about the goings-on about other Brixton pub walls, you really should start your own blog.


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## cuppa tee (Dec 3, 2012)

I remember the tops of the cisterns and other flat surfaces in some pub toilets used to be smeared in vaseline  for reasons I can't rememebr, maybe if the walls were given a coating th the ink wouldnt stick as well. I'll do an experiment in my bathroom and find out........


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## bi0boy (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> You should market this magical product because there seems to be no shortage of evidence of people having real trouble removing tagging from some surfaces.


 
Plenty of companies are already marketing suitable products. The problem is that it's easier for management to send some minimum wage stuff in with a scrubbing brush and some soap.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

Tagging is an antisocial blight if you're not a tagger yourself, and I say that as someone who did a lot of it as a kid.

The basic position of "I fucking hate people coming in a scrawling all over the walls of my local" is fair enough imo.


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## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> If I managed pub toilets I think I'd stick blackboards up and leave boxes of chalk out instead of soap


 
It's not much better really. People tag over blackboards with permanent pens and piss you off anyway.


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> It's not much better really. People tag over blackboards with permanent pens and piss you off anyway.


Spooky I was just pouring you a glass of malt on your thread 

Yeah I suppose you're right. I would give convicted taggers art lessons me


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i'd guess the windmill and hobgoblin, and imagine it's because of an assocation with u75.


 
Windmill always has grafitti in the loos within days of being painted


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## zenie (Dec 3, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Plenty of companies are already marketing suitable products. The problem is that it's easier for management to send some minimum wage stuff in with a scrubbing brush and some soap.


 
The LL did all the scrubbing, not the staff...and the place does go for more of a clean image these days.

I think this kind of thing happening reinforces my idea of having a toilet attendant to check what's going on


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## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

zenie said:


> The LL did all the scrubbing, not the staff...and the place does go for more of a clean image these days.
> 
> I think this kind of thing happening reinforces my idea of having a toilet attendant to check what's going on


They're not big enough to fit a person in. Unless it's a child?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Windmill always has grafitti in the loos within days of being painted


graffiti doesn't stop it being a locals' boozer though


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## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> They're not big enough to fit a person in. Unless it's a child?


 
A child? Old enough to tag?


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## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> A child? Old enough to tag?


A child that is the toilet attendant!


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 3, 2012)

zenie said:


> The LL did all the scrubbing, not the staff...and the place does go for more of a clean image these days.
> 
> I think this kind of thing happening reinforces my idea of having a toilet attendant to check what's going on


 
Imagine being a bog troll in the Albert.

You'd be dead of Cholera or something in a week.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Imagine being a bog troll in the Albert.
> 
> You'd be dead of Cholera or something in a week.


more likely something rather than cholera


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## Crispy (Dec 3, 2012)

You could fit one in if you strapped them to the ceiling


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## cuppa tee (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> They're not big enough to fit a person in. Unless it's a child?


The attendant could sit outside at a little lectern and hand out tokens so that theyd know exactly how many people were in there at any given time


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## zenie (Dec 3, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Imagine being a bog troll in the Albert.
> 
> You'd be dead of Cholera or something in a week.


 
 I didn't go and look at the tag, the smell is bad enough when I walk past and someone opens the door!!


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Spooky I was just pouring you a glass of malt on your thread
> 
> Yeah I suppose you're right. I would give convicted taggers art lessons me


 
I with you though, providing the space and just accepting it's going to get covered is probably the way forward.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

cuppa tee said:


> The attendant could sit outside at a little lectern and hand out tokens so that theyd know exactly how many people were in there at any given time


 
Is it doubling as a fitting room?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> Is it doubling as a fitting room?


it's not a fitting room for its current purpose, so it's hard to see how it could be fitting for anything else.


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## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> it's not a fitting room for its current purpose, so it's hard to see how it could be fitting for anything else.


 
I guess people could have fits in it? Ed seems to have over the tagging....


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> A child? Old enough to tag?


As I understand things, a large stage of parenthood involves trying to prevent your children from 'tagging' every available surface.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

it's a bloody good thing the tag wasn't 'editor'


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> I guess people could have fits in it? Ed seems to have over the tagging....


Oh grow up.


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## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Oh grow up.


 
It's a throwaway joke!

As long as your not taking yourself or the whole tagging scandal _too_ seriously, eh?


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> It's a throwaway joke!
> 
> As long as your not taking yourself or the whole tagging scandal _too_ seriously, eh?


Sorry, but facing an endless stream of the usual suspects on their predictably dull, point-scorin', tub-thumpin', nit-pickin', argument-twistin' mission tends to rather dampen my sense of humour.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Sorry, but facing an endless stream of the usual suspects on their predictably dull, point-scorin', tub-thumpin', nit-pickin', argument-twistin' mission tends to rather dampen my sense of humour.


 
I've got no axe to grind, and I'm very grateful to you for this site. 

You do seem to have set yourself up here though, because the distinction between graffiti and tagging and a 'community pub' and other places someone might draw/write on, does look very much like a device to disguise that the problem you have with the tagging is that is in your local, and your friend (the landlord's a mate, I'm guessing) doesn't like it.

Of course, the landlord isn't impressed, neither I would imagine are most property owners who have graffiti sprayed/drawn on their property.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> You do seem to have set yourself up here though, because the distinction between graffiti and tagging and a 'community pub' and other places someone might draw/write on, does look very much like a device to disguise that the problem you have with the tagging is that is in your local, and your friend (the landlord's a mate, I'm guessing) doesn't like it.


Yes, I have a problem with some twat tagging the walls and tables of my local and pissing off my friends. I imagine most people would feel the same too.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Yes, I have a problem with some twat tagging the walls and tables of my local and pissing off my friends. I imagine most people would feel the same too.


 
Indeed, but you must realise that is exactly how the graffiti you appear to champion elsewhere is percieved by others?


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> Indeed, but you must realise that is exactly how the graffiti you appear to champion elsewhere is percieved by others?


Don't you think people see a difference between a nice piece of graff and some butt-ugly tags sprayed on a bridge/scrawled on a wall?


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> Indeed, but you must realise that is exactly how the graffiti you appear to champion elsewhere is percieved by others?


Why are you continuing to substitute 'graffiti' for 'tagging' when they are quite clearly different things?

And where have I "championed" tagging on the walls and tables of regular pubs?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Don't you think people see a difference between a nice piece of graff and some butt-ugly tags sprayed on a bridge/scrawled on a wall?


Anyone using the word "graff" should be automatically dismissed from the discussion, really.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Don't you think people see a difference between a nice piece of graff and some butt-ugly tags sprayed on a bridge/scrawled on a wall?


 
All people? No.

Don't you think to some people, they are both just vandalism?


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Why are you continuing to substitute 'graffiti' for 'tagging' when they are quite clearly different things?
> 
> And where have I "championed" tagging on the walls and tables of regular pubs?


 
They are different things to you, clearly. That doesn't make them 'clearly different things'.

You've got lots of photos of graffiti elsewhere on the site.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Anyone using the word "graff" should be automatically dismissed from the discussion, really.


Off you fuck then.


Yelkcub said:


> All people? No.
> 
> Don't you think to some people, they are both just vandalism?


I didn't mean all people. And yes, to some people both are just vandalism.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> You've got lots of photos of graffiti elsewhere on the site.


So are you suggesting that because I've taken pictures of interesting graffiti elsewhere - like in Brooklyn - that somehow automatically undermines any negative opinions I may hold about some twerp scrawling tags all over the clean walls of my local?


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> So are you suggesting that because I've taken pictures of interesting graffiti elsewhere - like in Brooklyn - that somehow automatically undermines any negative opinions I may hold about some twerp scrawling tags all over the clean walls of my local?


 
I'm suggesting that accusations of NIMBYism aren't that surprising when tagging is grafitti and you like some grafitti, but not that in your local pub. Which I know you don't agree with because your saying tagging isn't grafitti.

When does tagging become a piece of proper graffiti? When it's bigger? Colours? If it's still just a 'name' but it's done in big coloured in letters and the really quite well executed?

It's a matter of perspective isn't it?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> So are you suggesting that because I've taken pictures of interesting graffiti elsewhere - like in Brooklyn - that somehow automatically undermines any negative opinions I may hold about some twerp scrawling tags all over the clean walls of my local?


The younger version of you felt that flyposters were


> playing a valuable role in undermining the 'status quo', by challenging people's automatic acceptance of mainstream values


Nowadays you want to drink in a pub with clean walls. Everyone's opinions change over time. It's not unusual to become more conservative as you get older. Why not just be relaxed about it and say "my outlook has changed - so what?"


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Nowadays you want to drink in a pub with clean walls.


Please don't try and speak for me because you really haven't a fucking clue. Now kindly go off and obsess elsewhere. Thanks.


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## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> When does tagging become a piece of proper graffiti? When it's bigger? Colours? If it's still just a 'name' but it's done in big coloured in letters and the really quite well executed?


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> I'm suggesting that accusations of NIMBYism aren't that surprising when tagging is grafitti and you like some grafitti, but not that in your local pub. Which I know you don't agree with because your saying tagging isn't grafitti.


I wouldn't like tagging all over the walls of my local independent cafe either, or over my front door and windows. How about you?


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## stuff_it (Dec 3, 2012)

Get a proper gaffiti artist to come in and do an amazing piece in the bogs, this should guilt and taggers into not adding to it.



editor said:


> I wouldn't like tagging all over the walls of my local independent cafe either, or over my front door and windows. How about you?


I used it to find my way home after a heavy night when I lived in Notts. I think the smiley face with a spliff above the front door (done during a house party by the previous punk tenants) was inspired, and I was sorry to see that the new landlord sandblasted it into oblivion.

Directions to our yard were 'go to street x, the top half and follow the graffiti'.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

People equating tagging to graffiti and saying you can't like one and hate the other is like people saying if you like drum and bass surely you like gabba as well. No, fuck off with your idiocy.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> I wouldn't like tagging all over the walls of my local independent cafe either, or over my front door and windows. How about you?


 
Of course not. I wouldn't want any graffiti on my house.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> People equating tagging to graffiti and saying you can't like one and hate the other is like people saying if you like drum and bass surely you like gabba as well. No, fuck off with your idiocy.


People are saying that tagging is a subset of graffiti, that the distinction is a subjective one and that it is inconsistent to have an objection in principle to tagging but not other forms of graffiti (or "graff" as some like to say in a cringesome attempt to sound streetwise). If you have an aesthetic dislike of tagging, then you must make the same allowances for those that have an aesthetic dislike of other forms of graffiti, rather than trying to pretend that your dislike of tagging is somehow based on firmer principles than their dislike of graffiti in general.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> Of course not. I wouldn't want any graffiti on my house.


So you're a NIMBY too then?


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

friedaweed said:
			
		

> I think tagging's on a par with those people who go round shitting in public places for their own amusement. I love graffiti and I'm always reading fly-posters. I like the design of a lot of flyers but tags = unimaginative cunts in my book. If you're going to graf something at least ad something of artistic/humorous merit to it.



The people who have merit usually start out as taggers. Are you actually reading the thread?


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> So you're a NIMBY too then?


I would love graffiti on my house but we need to decide if we are getting a bigger truck before getting someone to do it.

My mate's wagon:


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


>


I wouldn't want to piss in somewhere like that much less drink there


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> some twerp scrawling tags all over the clean walls of my local?


Out of curiosity, did you ever express similar sentiments over the way the toilets in the albert used to be covered in half-ripped down stickers?


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> So you're a NIMBY too then?


 
I'm a NIMOYBY. Not in my or your backyard. I'm consistent.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> People are saying that tagging is a subset of graffiti, that the distinction is a subjective one and that it is inconsistent to have an objection in principle to tagging but not other forms of graffiti (or "graff" as some like to say in a cringesome attempt to sound streetwise). If you have an aesthetic dislike of tagging, then you must make the same allowances for those that have an aesthetic dislike of other forms of graffiti, rather than trying to pretend that your dislike of tagging is somehow based on firmer principles than their dislike of graffiti in general.


I don't have an objection in principle to tagging, other than that it looks shit. That's principled enough for me.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Out of curiosity, did you ever express similar sentiments over the way the toilets in the albert used to be covered in half-ripped down stickers?


The Albert toilets have never been "covered" in "half-ripped down stickers."


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> The people who have merit usually start out as taggers. *Are you actually reading the thread?*


Yup from the first page so get your biro out and stick your  on the Albert bog walls narky arse I don't have to agree with everything that's written do I ? 

I personally think tagging looks shit  I don't subscribe to the argument that to defend graffiti you have to defend tagging too. In fact way back when we were nicking paint from Halfords a lot of people took up tagging because they couldn't actually do anything else. It's the old vandalism v's art debate and tagging does fuck to help that situation. So yeah stick your tagging and yer facepalm somewhere else but not in my back yard 



TruXta said:


> I don't have an objection in principle to tagging, other than that it looks shit. That's principled enough for me.


Innit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> The Albert toilets have never been "covered" in "half-ripped down stickers."


No indeed. But there have been in the past a considerable number of stickers in various states of ripped-downness on the walls of the toilets there. What was/is your opinion of that, is it the same as your view of the tagging?


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> No indeed. But there have been in the past a considerable number of stickers in various states of ripped-downness on the walls of the toilets there.


There's never been a "considerable number" of stickers "in various states of ripped-downness" on the toilet walls so you might want to revise your questioning strategy here.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Yup from the first page so get your biro out and stick your  on the Albert bog walls narky arse I don't have to agree with everything that's written do I ?
> 
> I personally think tagging looks shit  I don't subscribe to the argument that to defend graffiti you have to defend tagging too. In fact way back when we were nicking paint from Halfords a lot of people took up tagging because they couldn't actually do anything else. It's the old vandalism v's art debate and tagging does fuck to help that situation. So yeah stick your tagging and yer facepalm somewhere else but not in my back yard



I don't think tagging is particularly appealing. But plenty of people object to decent graffiti too. I don't really get the argument of decent gracfiti being ok as long as it's sprayed somewhere other than where you socialise though.

Either you agree with trespass art or you don't. Taste is subjective.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't think tagging is particularly appealing. But plenty of people object to decent graffiti too. I don't really get the argument of decent gracfiti being ok as long as it's sprayed somewhere other than where you socialise though.
> 
> Either you agree with trespass art or you don't. Taste is subjective.


It's not art. /bunfighting


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> It's not art. /bunfighting



Define art.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Define art.


Nah.


----------



## Kanda (Dec 3, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Get a proper gaffiti artist to come in and do an amazing piece in the bogs, this should guilt and taggers into not adding to it.


 
This is what The White Horse done, my old flatmates done the stuff in there. (and most of the Electric Social stuff)


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

There's plenty of taggers who delight in spoiling good pieces.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Nah.



Exactly.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

Did this happen at an offline? 

Editor surely attracts graffiti sorts to his events as he champions it in his photo section.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Exactly.


I think that whole question is a red herring in this context. Why does it matter if it's art or not? Does "trespass art" by merit of being trespassing thereby exempt the "art" in question from criticisms as to content and context? If anything labelling it as art makes it easier to attack tagging IMO, cuz it makes it shit art. And who wants that?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> There's never been a "considerable number" of stickers "in various states of ripped-downness" on the toilet walls so you might want to revise your questioning strategy here.


But there have been. Perhaps you just got so used to the decor you've forgotten about it. I remember counting 27 stickers on the wall there round 2007, including 3 class war stickers, some of which remained legible while others had been to varying degrees torn. That, to me, is a considerable number in varying degrees of ripped-downness


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> I wouldn't want to piss in somewhere like that much less drink there


 
Why not?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Why not?


Looks like the sort of place which would be infested with yuppies


----------



## plurker (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> I remember counting 27 stickers on the wall there round 2007


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

plurker said:


>


It's odd what you do when you're bored and pissing


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> I think that whole question is a red herring in this context. Why does it matter if it's art or not? Does "trespass art" by merit of being trespassing thereby exempt the "art" in question from criticisms as to content and context? If anything labelling it as art makes it easier to attack tagging IMO, cuz it makes it shit art. And who wants that?



I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying it's shit. It's the fact this site bigs up graffiti and flyposting etc through articles and photos and then there's pissing and moaning when a bit of graffiti appears closer to home.

It's like saying graffiti is acceptable as long as it's in someone elses community and/or of a certain standard. It doesn't work like that though. Most people who start something are shit and become good through practice. If you support the good work it therefore carries that you have to support the shit or be forced into accepting that all graffiti should be unacceptable.


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't think tagging is particularly appealing. But plenty of people object to decent graffiti too. I don't really get the argument of decent gracfiti being ok as long as it's sprayed somewhere other than where you socialise though.
> 
> Either you agree with trespass art or you don't. Taste is subjective.


That's not decent graffiti though is it. It looks like my lad's been left in there with a marker pen 

I was joking partly about my back yard. My walls look drab. If someone graffed up my garden wall one night I'd be fine with it. If someone tagged it I'd chase the fuckers down until my dieing breath and lock them in my garage until they produced something of merit. Until then I think they should keep their marker pens that they nicked from school in their pockets


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

See previous post.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Looks like the sort of place which would be infested with yuppies


 
You may be interested in the discussion here from post 1760 onwards. You will be pleased that in this instance we are in agreement about something.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 3, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Windmill always has grafitti in the loos within days of being painted


 
So stop writing it!


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying it's shit. It's the fact this site bigs up graffiti and flyposting etc through articles and photos and then there's pissing and moaning when a bit of graffiti appears closer to home.
> 
> It's like saying graffiti is acceptable as long as it's in someone elses community and/or of a certain standard. It doesn't work like that though. Most people who start something are shit and become good through practice. If you support the good work it therefore carries that you have to support the shit or be forced into accepting that all graffiti should be unacceptable.


I think an unspoken assumption that divides us here is that you're very much working from the idea that all graffiti/tags/whatnot is "trespass art". I think that idea doesn't really hold as strongly as it used to - IME (which tbf isn't from the UK). You can blame Banksy for that maybe, but it's what I've seen.

It's the same wrt whoever posted that vid a few pages back about US graffiti culture in 1983. That's 30 years ago. Things might, just might, have changed a bit since.

IMHO I have some respect for people who tag hard to get to/dangerous places. Someone defacing the Albert bogs when blotto doesn't really inspire me to rally for the counterculture cause.


----------



## Onket (Dec 3, 2012)

12 pages. Great work.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> But there have been. Perhaps you just got so used to the decor you've forgotten about it. I remember counting 27 stickers on the wall there round 2007, including 3 class war stickers, some of which remained legible while others had been to varying degrees torn.


Sure you did. Shame they were invisible to everyone else though.


----------



## plurker (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> It's odd what you do when you're bored and pissing


 
It's odder that you remember the qty 5 years on


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> So stop writing it!


 
I don't!  I stopped writing on loo doors when I was around 14


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Did this happen at an offline?
> 
> Editor surely attracts graffiti sorts to his events as he champions it in his photo section.


Nope, so there goes your smartarse comment!

I meant to ask: how would you like tagging all over the walls of your local independent cafe and over your front door and windows?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2012)

if you can't draw on bog walls in a dingy boozer where can you? Its the last bastion of english freedom.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

plurker said:


> It's odder that you remember the qty 5 years on


More than a bit odd. A bit_ fantastic. _


----------



## Firky (Dec 3, 2012)

"No point in standing on the seat. The crabs here can jump 10 feet."

The One Eyed Dog, Southsea circa 2000/2001.

A bit of bog graffiti that has stuck with me.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> if you can't draw on bog walls in a dingy boozer where can you? Its the last bastion of english freedom.


The Albert's no longer a dingy pub. It never really was that dingy compared to some around here (mostly now gone)


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Onket said:


> 12 pages. Great work.


Ah, you're back! Have you got the URLs of all those photos yet, are are you going to be man enough to admit that you made it all up?


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

firky said:


> "No point in standing on the seat. The crabs here can jump 10 feet."
> 
> The One Eyed Dog, Southsea circa 2000/2001.
> 
> A bit of bog graffiti that has stuck with me.


That's class that is.


----------



## plurker (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> N and over your front door and windows?


 
Imagine scrubbing each and every leaf to remove this


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> I think an unspoken assumption that divides us here is that you're very much working from the idea that all graffiti/tags/whatnot is "trespass art". I think that idea doesn't really hold as strongly as it used to - IME (which tbf isn't from the UK). You can blame Banksy for that maybe, but it's what I've seen.
> 
> It's the same wrt whoever posted that vid a few pages back about US graffiti culture in 1983. That's 30 years ago. Things might, just might, have changed a bit since.



In whose view? You've gotten older. Perhaps that's what's changed.


----------



## Onket (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Ah, you're back! Have you got the URLs of all those photos yet, are are you going to be man enough to admit that you made it all up?



Are you actually mentally unwell? I would seriously go and see someone about it if I were you. It was quite funny yesterday, but still banging on like a shit broken record almost 24hrs later? Something can't be right in your head, mate.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> In whose view? You've gotten older. Perhaps that's what's changed.


Nah, I remember thinking tags were shit 20 years ago when my older brother and his mates were doing it. OTOH where I grew up we had quite a few guys who did proper pieces, and IIRC they weren't exactly fond of the miscreants who'd casually deface pieces they'd spent loads of hours on.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> I meant to ask: how would you like tagging all over the walls of your local independent cafe and over your front door and windows?



Yes, my windows are really comparable to a bog wall. Or perhaps you're suggesting that you live in said toilet?


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Onket said:


> Are you actually mentally unwell? I would seriously go and see someone about it if I were you. It was quite funny yesterday, but still banging on like a shit broken record almost 24hrs later? Something can't be right in your head, mate.


That's really unpleasant. You get caught out posting up lies and your only response is to accuse me of suffering from mental illness?

You've really lost it mate and I've just lot a lot of respect for you.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Yes, my windows are really comparable to a bog wall. Or perhaps you're suggesting that you live in said toilet?


No, I'm just trying to find out where you think tagging is acceptable and if the NIMBY argument applies.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


>


 
That's signage in a graffiti style, not graffiti.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

plurker said:


> It's odder that you remember the qty 5 years on


Yeh? I remember paying £1.35 for a pint of strongbow in north finchley's moss hall tavern in 1990; I remember the adult fare from tottenham court road to east finchley was £0.80 in 1984; I remember the phone number from my auld school. And I remember counting 27 stickers in the albert toilets five years ago


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> And I remember counting 27 stickers in the albert toilets five years ago


Perhaps you put them up yourself, counted them all and then peeled them all off again?


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

I definitely have memories of stickers in the Albert bogs, but tbh it could've been the fumes making me see things.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> It's odd what you do when you're bored and pissing


 
Must have been a four-pinter you were doing, to get up to 27 while pissing!


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> I definitely have memories of stickers in the Albert bogs, but tbh it could've been the fumes making me see things.


There used to be some but they were almost always on the condom machine. Not quite sure why it's become such an issue though!


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh? I remember paying £1.35 for a pint of strongbow in north finchley's moss hall tavern in 1990; I remember the adult fare from tottenham court road to east finchley was £0.80 in 1984; I remember the phone number from my auld school. And I remember counting 27 stickers in the albert toilets five years ago


 
I was in The Elephant nee The Moss Hall on Saturday! It is no longer £1.35 a pint


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2012)

there was never 1.35 a pint anywhere. Except in the dark ages and even then only at happy hour


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Cheapest pint in the Albert is now £2.70. So there you go.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> there was never 1.35 a pint anywhere. Except in the dark ages and even then only at happy hour


 
It was a pound for a pint of Lowenbrau in the Manchester student bar I worked at, '92-95.....


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> there was never 1.35 a pint anywhere. Except in the dark ages and even then only at happy hour


It was in uni pubs, cheaper than that too, not that many years ago.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Dec 3, 2012)

used to be around 50p a pint when i started drinking in pubs mid 70's


----------



## plurker (Dec 3, 2012)

TAKI183 was tagging in the mid 70s.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

FUN GAME: anyone care to guess the brixton bogs?


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

plurker said:


> TAKI183 was tagging in the mid 70s.


People have been tagging since the invention of written language.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> there was never 1.35 a pint anywhere. Except in the dark ages and even then only at happy hour


 
It was 1:35 a pint in the student union when I was there.  All day, everyday.

Great days.


----------



## snowy_again (Dec 3, 2012)

Prior to that in fact... although reports of palaeolithic art in the bogs in the albert are probably a little premature.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

ice-is-forming said:


> used to be around 50p a pint when i started drinking in pubs mid 70's


 

I managed 50p a pint when I was growing up in plymouth.  And that was the 90s!

((monday nights in the warehouse))


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

ska invita said:


> FUN GAME: anyone care to guess the brixton bogs?


Edit: Hootananny!


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

ska invita said:


> FUN GAME: anyone care to guess the brixton bogs?


 
is it... the albert?


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> is it... the albert?


Not enough half torn down stickers.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 3, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I managed 50p a pint when I was growing up in plymouth. And that was the 90s!
> 
> ((monday nights in the warehouse))


 
Actually, that reminded me, student night at Discotheque Royale in M'cr was 50p a pint in the 90s also


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> People have been tagging since the invention of written language.


 

Theres some viking tagging on ancient ruins on islands north of scotland

Saw a program that claimed the oldest grafitti known is at pompie and is a boast of sexual conquest.


probably not the oldest though, it was one of THOSE history programs 'Rome' meaningful pause and rumbly music 'The greatest empire the world has ever known' *generic battle sounds*


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

I don't know how ancient man managed without marker pens.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Theres some viking tagging on ancient ruins on islands north of scotland


What a lot of people don't know is that standing stones were actually druid urinals


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't know how ancient man managed without marker pens.


Stone carvings are a hell of a lot more durable than bloody marker pens.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

ska invita said:


> What a lot of people don't know is that standing stones were actually druid urinals


 
Overcompensating, the mark of a real druid.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 3, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Theres some viking tagging on ancient ruins on islands north of scotland
> 
> Saw a program that claimed the oldest grafitti known is at pompie and is a boast of sexual conquest.
> 
> ...


 
and there's this which is really really old as well


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

ska invita said:


> FUN GAME: anyone care to guess the brixton bogs?


anyone who says graf isnt art must have missed the heart & cock in the right hand corner of this pic


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2012)

well, consider this: half hours elbow grease and an anti solvent graf remover spray (thaey don't work very well hence the elbow grease) and you are clear.

Bit trickier in Hslafbard the Bloody has chiseled fucking runes into your house wall. Although the small consolation would be that you'd be too dead to get really wound up about it


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Perhaps you put them up yourself, counted them all and then peeled them all off again?


so you think while i'm pissing away i'm putting up and ripping 27 stickers. That's multi-tasking of an amazing degree


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 3, 2012)

I wonder why the pen is so difficult to remove.
Presumably decades of abrading with Vim has exposed the earthenware under the glaze ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> I was in The Elephant nee The Moss Hall on Saturday! It is no longer £1.35 a pint


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> In whose view? You've gotten older. Perhaps that's what's changed.


Go on admit it. You tagged the Albert bogs didn't you

You groovy young thang


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

gentlegreen said:


> I wonder why the pen is so difficult to remove.
> Presumably decades of abrading with Vim has exposed the earthenware under the glaze ...


 
Everyday marker pen is a bastard to get off with standard cleaning products like soap and water.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Everyday marker pen is a bastard to get off with standard cleaning products like soap and water.


bitd my graf mates would open up the pen and add shoe leather dye to the ink inside...even industrial cleaning products wont clear it off completely.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 3, 2012)

That would explain it.
Permanent marker comes off glass and ceramic with little  more than meths.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

gentlegreen said:


> That would explain it.
> Permanent marker comes off glass and ceramic with little more than meths.


 
Soap doesn't tend to contain meths.  In fact, I'd say most regular cleaning products most people own don't contain anything like meths.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2012)

ska said:
			
		

> bitd my graf mates would open up the pen and add shoe leather dye to the ink inside...even industrial cleaning products wont clear it off completely.


 pressured steam cleaner would do it. Probably fuck the surface though and youd be left with a glaring clean patch


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Soap doesn't tend to contain meths. In fact, I'd say most regular cleaning products most people own don't contain anything like meths.


 

window and glass cleaner is a mild anti solvent. for the grease y'see

And if a pub boozer doesn't have window and glass cleaner in the stock cupboard then they are dirty bastards


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

you see it on the inside of tube trains often, a faint stain of the original tag in a cloud of scraped metal. thats a sign of shoe dye. i dont know though, London Transport cleaning methods are probably more advanced these days...


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Are there many 'proper' graffiti artists that haven't started out tagging?


doubt any


editor said:


> I've no idea, but I'm pretty sure pub walls aren't essential training canvasses for their art.


theres always a victim and someone who has to clean it off


fractionMan said:


> Tagging is an antisocial blight if you're not a tagger yourself, and I say that as someone who did a lot of it as a kid.
> 
> The basic position of "I fucking hate people coming in a scrawling all over the walls of my local" is fair enough imo.


 
agree. but its all part of the rich tapestry of modern life


----------



## plurker (Dec 3, 2012)

ska invita said:


> you see it on the inside of tube trains often, a faint stain of the original tag in a cloud of scraped metal. thats a sign of shoe dye. i dont know though, London Transport cleaning methods are probably more advanced these days...


 
Yeah, so much nicer when they buff


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

They could get the tagger to lick it off and then film it as an art performance piece.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2012)

If these wannabe graffiti artists are so determined to practice their art shouldn't they be using actual spray cans and finding a boarded up shop façade or something? The Albert toilets with a marker pen is a bit of a cop out when it comes to being edgy and getting your name out.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> If these wannabe graffiti artists are so determined to practice their art shouldn't they be using actual spray cans and finding a boarded up shop façade or something? The Albert toilets with a marker pen is a bit of a cop out when it comes to being edgy and getting your name out.


its all about *full spectrum dominance*


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2012)

Edgy?  In the era of blue and black permenent markers stolen from school I favoured the red one.  

That's Edgy.  I was on the edge.


----------



## pesh (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> The Albert's no longer a dingy pub.


it's been gentrified


----------



## plurker (Dec 3, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> If these wannabe graffiti artists are so determined to practice their art shouldn't they be using actual spray cans and finding a boarded up shop façade or something? The Albert toilets with a marker pen is a bit of a cop out when it comes to being edgy and getting your name out.


I'm 100% sure the tagger in the OP would use appropriate methods for different locations. Indoor toilet best tool would be markers, outdoor walls cans. HAve you tried to walk about with a 500ml tin in your pocket?


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

pesh said:


> it's been gentrified


It's changed a bit but I wouldn't really describe those changes as gentrification. It's more modernised than anything else. That said, there does seem to have been a new crowd appearing recently, possibly because of the Hoot situation. 

Saturday night was good there though. Good band and lots of locals in the house.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

plurker said:


> I'm 100% sure the tagger in the OP would use appropriate methods for different locations. Indoor toilet best tool would be markers, outdoor walls cans. HAve you tried to walk about with a 500ml tin in your pocket?


And for outdoors, this set up works best:


----------



## plurker (Dec 3, 2012)

not for quick throws it doesn't...


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

You need one of these for outdoor


----------



## plurker (Dec 3, 2012)

JIM


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 3, 2012)

This is is the toilet in my local.


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> This is is the toilet in my local.


Taken through beer goggles?


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> This is is the toilet in my local.


I've seen worse in New York, but over there there's quite an established culture of the toilets of music bars/dive bars being completely covered in graffiti and tagging - although folks seem to generally be respectful of the rest of the venue and leave other walls and fittings alone.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> That's signage in a graffiti style, not graffiti.


 
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have been able to understand this by themselves.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Here's the loo from the Mars Bar. It wasn't very nice.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

I liked this NY graffiti, telling off the owner for the water provision.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> I've seen worse in New York


how is that possible?


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 3, 2012)

plurker said:


> I'm 100% sure the tagger in the OP would use appropriate methods for different locations. Indoor toilet best tool would be markers, outdoor walls cans. HAve you tried to walk about with a 500ml tin in your pocket?


Some of those refillable marker pens aren't too small either.



editor said:


> Here's the loo from the Mars Bar. It wasn't very nice.


I see your point, someone should scrub round where the seat goes properly. Someone doing graf in there could catch summat nasty.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

ska invita said:


> how is that possible?


That pan looks sparkling compared to the Mars Bar one!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Thanks for pointing this out. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have been able to understand this by themselves.


 
Only you, seemingly.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 3, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> there was never 1.35 a pint anywhere. Except in the dark ages and even then only at happy hour


 
73p for a pint of Carling when I started drinking in pubs. This was back in the day when lager choice was confined to the 2.8-3.2% stuff like (brewed under licence) Heineken, Tuborg and Carlsberg, or (round my area) Youngs' lager (bleurgh!).


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

58p for my first pint of mild


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

Fuck you're all so old. Cheapest pint I ever had back home was 19 kroners, about 2 pounds, and that was in 92.


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Fuck you're all so old. Cheapest pint I ever had back home was 19 kroners, about 2 pounds, and that was in 92.


Most expensive pint I had was in Goteborg £12


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Most expensive pint I had was in Goteborg £12


Most expensive beer I've ever bought was close to 15 quid, this summer in Oslo. In fairness it was some kind of incredibly rare Continental beer that came in a large bottle with a cork, much like a champagne bottle.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Fuck you're all so old. Cheapest pint I ever had back home was 19 kroners, about 2 pounds, and that was in 92.


 
Scandinavia has always been well expensive for booze, from what I recall.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Scandinavia has always been well expensive for booze, from what I recall.


Yeah, certainly since well before I was born. Probably dates back to the lifting of prohibition and the creation of The Wine Monopoly in '22.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> 73p for a pint of Carling when I started drinking in pubs. *This was back in the day* when lager choice was confined to the 2.8-3.2% stuff like (brewed under licence) Heineken, Tuborg and Carlsberg, or (round my area) Youngs' lager (bleurgh!).


 
good grief


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 3, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Taken through beer goggles?


I just googled the name of the bar and toilets. Someone else took it, must have been a rare night when the lightbulb was working.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> No, I'm just trying to find out where you think tagging is acceptable and if the NIMBY argument applies.



If I were to draw a line between acceptable and not acceptable I'd probably place it dividing commercial and residential premises.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> If I were to draw a line between acceptable and not acceptable I'd probably place it dividing commercial and residential premises.


Publicans do occasionally live on the premises as it were.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

friedaweed said:
			
		

> Go on admit it. You tagged the Albert bogs didn't you
> 
> You groovy young thang


 
Haven't been to south London since I last went to an offline a couple of years ago and haven't tagged or done graffiti in my life*. I enjoy the art though and know where it comes from. Its appeal is because it annoys people and generates discussion both on what passes as art - which the wealthy want to own - and what is property and therefore what is trespass.

*apart from that brief period of vandalising school windows when I was about 14.


----------



## Onket (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> That's really unpleasant. You get caught out posting up lies and your only response is to accuse me of suffering from mental illness?
> 
> You've really lost it mate and I've just lot a lot of respect for you.



I've not lied. I've posted links to photos you've taken on this thread already, including one you took in the toilets of The Albert. Every tine you have bizarrely demanded I post a pic I have pointed this out. Yet like someone with a serious problem, yiu simply spew out the same demands.

I don't think you've got any respect for me or the vast majority of posters on these forums. The way you carry on is at best a sad joke, at worst intentionally disrespectful. You wind up others and encourage them to bite, and when they do you are even worse.

Seriously disturbed behaviour. You really need to sort youraelf out.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

TruXta said:
			
		

> Publicans do occasionally live on the premises as it were.



I'm sure they use the same bogs as the punters too.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Its appeal is because it annoys people and generates discussion both on what passes as art which the wealthy want to own and what is property and what is trespass.


 
That's the best argument in defence of tagging, but the Albert toilets are still a cop out when Vladimir Umanets has already set the bar at the Tate Modern.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Onket said:


> I've not lied.


Yes you have and it's there for all to see: the photos you claimed I took simply don't exist. You made it up and got caught out.

Your subsequent strategy of throwing around really unpleasant personal slurs to try and bluster your way out of this really is quite disgraceful. You've really shown yourself up here and I'm afraid to say that you really are a horrible man on these boards of late.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

You howwid howwid man. lol.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 3, 2012)

its things like this that making me start thinking that people are getting overly fond of cats and being to ape some of character traits


"this is mine, this is mine and this is also mine"


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Haven't been to south London since I last went to an offline a couple of years ago and haven't tagged or done graffiti in my life. I enjoy the art though and know where it comes from. Its appeal is because it annoys people and generates discussion both on what passes as art which the wealthy want to own and what is property and what is trespass.


I think we agree in the main just not about tagging. 

I got into graffiti when I was 14 in quite a big way. My interest in it carried on until I was in my early 20's but I was devastated when I went home to Liverpool one summer and saw what my brother and his crew were sticking up. It's fucking horrible finding out that your little brother is so much better than you  Him and his little pal Vossy were shit hot.

One of the things that really inspired me was my twatty art teacher at school announcing to me that what I offered up as my homework once was nice "But not what I asked for and not really art". Thankfully teachers have moved on hey. My daughters developing an interest in graffiti now much of it down to her teacher. I was obsessed with the graffiti of 80's New York. There was no interwubz about so yeah we relied on betamax (Snigger) copies of 'beat this' and 'bombin' that had been copied so many times you could hardly watch them  . We even rented out the warriors movie from our corner shop so we could slow down the graff scenes so many times we broke the tape and had to sellotape it before we sent it back. Prob the first tag I ever saw  We had bare concrete everywhere in our lovely little 'new town' and fuck all to do. My bedroom wall got bombed so many times the paint was thicker than the plaster  Tagging though really wasn't the done thing then, not in our area anyway, that came about 10 years later. We used just about anything we could to bomb with. We even bombed a subway in chalk we acquired from said snotty art teacher one night.That took some washing off hey 

So yeah I love graffiti. But I just think tagging is ugly and in general shite. I know and fully understand there's the argument that for loads of artists it's how they got into it and where they progressed from and it's about total coverage but I also believe that there's hundreds of people who have just tagged shit and that's as far as they got. Regardless, I just think it looks shit.

Each to their own I suppose.One mans art and all that.

I found a box of stuff I snapped when I was in LA in 93 when my daughter asked me about my graffiti obsession. My mother grassed me up when she was supposedly helping me sort out my daughter and her traumatic adolescence. 

"Oh your dad was no angle take no notice of him. The police were always bringing him home for doing things he shouldn't have been doing. Do you know he painted a picture of a cow on a milk float once?"

Thanks Ma

I'll try and nab a scanner from work and put a few up. I've got loads from the wall of fame


----------



## free spirit (Dec 3, 2012)

ye gods, are editor and Onket still calling each other liars?

ffs this is the photo onket was referring to that he posted up on page 2 of the thread, not that I'm really sure what the relevance of it is given that it's just a photo and Editor didn't particularly express his approval or otherwise of it by taking the photo.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

free spirit said:


> ye gods, are editor and Onket still calling each other liars?
> 
> ffs this is the photo onket was referring to that he posted up on page 2 of the thread, not that I'm really sure what the relevance of it is given that it's just a photo and Editor didn't particularly express his approval or otherwise of it by taking the photo.


That is a photo of a condom machine with four stickers on them.

Onket claimed that the walls of the Albert bogs used to be "covered" in graffiti until "recently" and that I used to take pictures of them for this site. So I asked him to show me some of these pictures and he responded by suggesting that I'm suffering from mental illness.  Nice.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

free spirit said:


> ye gods, are editor and Onket still calling each other liars?
> 
> ffs this is the photo onket was referring to that he posted up on page 2 of the thread, not that I'm really sure what the relevance of it is given that it's just a photo and Editor didn't particularly express his approval or otherwise of it by taking the photo.


That's a curious picture given mayday monopoly was iirc 2001, three years after j18. Can't be too many pub bogs where stickers stay up for at least 3 years


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> That's a curious picture given mayday monopoly was iirc 2001, three years after j18. Can't be too many pub bogs where stickers stay up for at least 3 years


You've got your dates wrong.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> You've got your dates wrong.


You're right. J18 of course 1999 

Still two years + not bad for a sticker to stay up


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> You're right. J18 of course 1999
> 
> Still two years + not bad for a sticker to stay up


Assuming the sticker went up in 1999 of course.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Assuming the sticker went up in 1999 of course.


I doubt many j18 stickers went up long after the great day


----------



## brixtontroll (Dec 3, 2012)

this is the most pointless thread ever! next time im in brixton i will leave some thing a a lot more offensive in the Albert toilet than some writing on the wall....


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2012)

free spirit said:


> ye gods, are editor and Onket still calling each other liars?
> 
> ffs this is the photo onket was referring to that he posted up on page 2 of the thread, not that I'm really sure what the relevance of it is given that it's just a photo and Editor didn't particularly express his approval or otherwise of it by taking the photo.


 
Technically all those stickers have tagging/writing of some kind on them

top left: "no you don't you (something something) cunts"
middle (mayday monopoly): "get a wash"
right: (indymedia) "free soap an all"
top right: unreadable scribble


----------



## zenie (Dec 3, 2012)

I like the 'get a wash' written on the monopoly sticker


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> I think we agree in the main just not about tagging.
> 
> I got into graffiti when I was 14 in quite a big way. My interest in it carried on until I was in my early 20's but I was devastated when I went home to Liverpool one summer and saw what my brother and his crew were sticking up. It's fucking horrible finding out that your little brother is so much better than you  Him and his little pal Vossy were shit hot.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with most of what you say. Of course a proper burn is better than a tag. But who can do a burn to a pro are even semi decent level on starting out?

And there's the rub. I'd much rather someone made a fuck up with a marker pen than with a set of spray cans. It's like giving someone a nuclear missile before they've even practiced with a spud gun.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

brixtontroll said:


> this is the most pointless thread ever! next time im in brixton i will leave some thing a a lot more offensive in the Albert toilet than some writing on the wall....


What do you have in mind?


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

Taggers should be commended for using pens in small areas imo. They know they're not ready yet but are up for experimenting and building their confidence.


----------



## brixtontroll (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> What do you have in mind?


BEERIOD!


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> What do you have in mind?


 
Probably his presence.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 3, 2012)

top left - ' no you don't you soap dogging cunts'


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2012)

'soap dodging'... of course  

Looks like the scrawlings of some toryboy with an agenda


----------



## free spirit (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> That is a photo of a condom machine with four stickers on them.
> 
> Onket claimed that the walls of the Albert bogs used to be "covered" in graffiti until "recently" and that I used to take pictures of them for this site. So I asked him to show me some of these pictures and he responded by suggesting that I'm suffering from mental illness. Nice.


you're missing my point though - which is... do you 2 not have better things to do with your lives than spending 2 days arguing the toss over whether or not there used to be graf in a pub toilet.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2012)

Course they do. But that would be no fun.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> So yeah I love graffiti. But I just think tagging is ugly and in general shite. I know and fully understand there's the argument that for loads of artists it's how they got into it and where they progressed from and it's about total coverage but I also believe that there's hundreds of people who have just tagged shit and that's as far as they got. Regardless, I just think it looks shit.
> 
> Each to their own I suppose.One mans art and all that.


i reckon most people who do it know it pisses people off, but pissing people off is part of the buzz, along with stealing paint and trespassing. Some writers have rules like no writing on peoples homes or vehicles, but not all do. The ultimate reward is Fame which trumps everything - and even a shit blam in a toilet adds to the rep!

thing is graffiti has been co-opted by the art world and so on, but really most writers couldnt give a shit what other people think, consider the art world a bunch of cunts who they might be able scam a few quid of one day maybe, ultimately they just want to impress and compete against other writers.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

free spirit said:


> you're missing my point though - which is... do you 2 not have better things to do with your lives than spending 2 days arguing the toss over whether or not there used to be graf in a pub toilet.


 
Like arguing about a more meaningful topic. On the internet.


----------



## free spirit (Dec 3, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> Course they do. But that would be no fun.


sorry, you're right. As you were lads...


----------



## zenie (Dec 3, 2012)

'soap dodging cunts' <3 

'free soap 4 all' 

these are more like it


----------



## free spirit (Dec 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Like arguing about a more meaningful topic. On the internet.


sometimes the sheer absurdity of it just jumps out and slaps you around the face though.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

free spirit said:


> sometimes the sheer absurdity of it just jumps out and slaps you around the face though.


Yet here you are, still adding to this thread


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

*its worth remembering lots of writers get nicked and do spells in jail - and several have died on tracks or taking a fall off a building. They know what the stakes are, and you have to have a great big I DONT GIVE A FUCK attitude to do it.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

ska invita said:


> *its worth remembering lots of writers get nicked and do spells in jail - and several have died on tracks or taking a fall of a building. They know what the stakes are, and you have to have a great big I DONT GIVE A FUCK attitude to do it.


Pretty low risk in the Albert toilets though. Biggest danger would be slipping on the misdirected pee.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Pretty low risk in the Albert toilets though. Biggest danger would be slipping on the misdirected pee.


I dont know, you were threatening a lynch mob earlier on! Like i said, even a blam in a toilet all adds to the rep - not trying to impress anyone but other writers though. My point was they do not give a shit who it offends.


----------



## free spirit (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Yet here you are, still adding to this thread


ay, I forgot you and onket love ripping each other to shreds for shits and giggles. do carry on, maybe you'll get it to an epic 50 page bunfight before you both get bored.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

ska invita said:


> I dont know, you were threatening a lynch mob earlier on!


I wasn't threatening anything but I would think that some of the locals might take hearty objection if they saw some new face making work for the landlord.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2012)

Pft... he's got nothing on this lot.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

free spirit said:


> ay, I forgot you and onket love ripping each other to shreds for shits and giggles. do carry on, maybe you'll get it to an epic 50 page bunfight before you both get bored.


It used to be fun, but it's all gone too far now. Banter is one thing, but the line has been well and truly crossed here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

free spirit said:


> you're missing my point though - which is... do you 2 not have better things to do with your lives than spending 2 days arguing the toss over whether or not there used to be graf in a pub toilet.


what the fuck are you doing on urban if you don't see this as a valuable use of your time? eh? fucking get on your way if that's your attitude.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> Pft... he's got nothing on this lot.


That makes me legs go wobbly! Shame the graffiti is so shite after they've gone to so much effort though.


----------



## gabi (Dec 3, 2012)

16 pages over a bit of tagging in a pub on the dodgiest street in brixton. mental.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2012)

gabi said:


> 16 pages over a bit of tagging in a pub on the dodgiest street in brixton. mental.


Coldharbour Lane ain't what it used to be.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2012)

gabi said:


> 16 pages over a bit of tagging in a pub on the dodgiest street in brixton. mental.


it's one of urban's finest moments


----------



## gabi (Dec 3, 2012)

i rarely venture into the albert these days, but i do love that it exists. but shit happens. i was present when the window in the lads' bog was smashed up (in fact was indirectly involved ). it's a part of life on coldharbour. take it or leave it.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> That makes me legs go wobbly! Shame the graffiti is so shite after they've gone to so much effort though.


not much you can do pressed against the bridge for dear life. thing is its not just about art its about fame - people will think how the fuck did they get up there, and that counts for even more than artistic values.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Pretty low risk in the Albert toilets though. Biggest danger would be slipping on the misdirected pee.


 
Wax on, wax off, daniel son.


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 3, 2012)

ska invita said:


> i reckon most people who do it know it pisses people off, but pissing people off is part of the buzz, along with stealing paint and trespassing. Some writers have rules like no writing on peoples homes or vehicles, but not all do. The ultimate reward is Fame which trumps everything - and even a shit blam in a toilet adds to the rep!
> 
> thing is graffiti has been co-opted by the art world and so on, but really most writers couldnt give a shit what other people think, consider the art world a bunch of cunts who they might be able scam a few quid of one day maybe, ultimately they just want to impress and compete against other writers.


Yup totally get that and well put.  This is why I drew my similarity to just shitting in places. 

Tagging looks shit and there's plenty of people who graffiti that also think tagging is counter productive and looks shit. The art worlds heaving with cunts fo sure but that doesn't mean that graffiti isn't art. Ya can can go round and round forever on it can't ya.

My points quite simple. Tagging lks shit but I find graffiti cl. I don't subscribe to the view that they're inseparable and you can't love one without the other But then I'm old and remember when mild was 58p a pint


----------



## Athos (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> LOL.



Great comeback. Laden with pathos. Unlike those tags.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 4, 2012)

gabi said:


> 16 pages over a bit of tagging in a pub on the dodgiest street in brixton. mental.


 
Almost 500 posts


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 4, 2012)




----------



## stuff_it (Dec 4, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> I just googled the name of the bar and toilets. Someone else took it, must have been a rare night when the lightbulb was working.


'How to prevent taggers 101'


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> That is a photo of a condom machine with four stickers on them.
> 
> Onket claimed that the walls of the Albert bogs used to be "covered" in graffiti until "recently" and that I used to take pictures of them for this site. So I asked him to show me some of these pictures and he responded by suggesting that I'm suffering from mental illness. Nice.


 
I can only think of that reason for the way you act on these boards, yes. You've not even offered any alternative suggestions.

Get well soon.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> It used to be fun, but it's all gone too far now. Banter is one thing, but the line has been well and truly crossed here.


 
Indeed. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's had quite enough of you.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2012)

So the toilets at the albert are they priss or a bit of a pissing infused dump?


----------



## gabi (Dec 4, 2012)

they're manky as fuck. always have been.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

gabi said:


> they're manky as fuck. always have been.


 
Careful now, you'll get called a liar in a minute unless you can provide photographic proof.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2012)

Tbf if you toilets are manky as fuck don't be surprised if they get tagged or wrote all over..

At least it gives you something to read as you inhaling the prefume of piss..

*shrugs*


----------



## TruXta (Dec 4, 2012)

The bogs aren't manky as fuck anymore, not since the refurb anyway.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

TruXta said:


> The bogs aren't manky as fuck anymore, not since the refurb anyway.


Yep. They get messy on a busy night, but that's down to the sloppy punters, not the decor.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2012)

TruXta said:


> The bogs aren't manky as fuck anymore, not since the refurb anyway.


 






its a slight improvement i'll give you that


----------



## TruXta (Dec 4, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> its a slight improvement i'll give you that


 
It never looked anywhere near that bad.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Yep. They get messy on a busy night, but that's down to the sloppy punters, not the decor.


#


anyways


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> --


I'm not interested in seeing your disgusting loo, thanks.


----------



## plurker (Dec 4, 2012)

TruXta said:


> The bogs aren't manky as fuck anymore, not since the refurb anyway.


 
Did someone say gentrification?


----------



## TruXta (Dec 4, 2012)

plurker said:


> Did someone say gentrification?


The poor need clean bogs too.


----------



## plurker (Dec 4, 2012)

'cleaning' is different to 'refurbishing'...

edit - for clarity, I've never been into the Albert, so don't know what the toiletes a) were like nor b) are currently like


----------



## teuchter (Dec 4, 2012)

gabi said:


> i rarely venture into the albert these days, but i do love that it exists. but shit happens. i was present when the window in the lads' bog was smashed up (in fact was indirectly involved ). it's a part of life on coldharbour. take it or leave it.


reported to Americanism watch


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

plurker said:


> 'cleaning' is different to 'refurbishing'...
> 
> edit - for clarity, I've never been into the Albert, so don't know what the toiletes a) were like nor b) are currently like


They were always clean at the start of the day and grew progressively more pungent as they day wore on. Come the end of a weekend evening and they were often to be found in a fearful state. The refurb has considerably improved the situation, although no amount of refurbishment can compensate for blokes with serious aiming problems. They're by no means the worst pub loos around Brixton though - and many end up in a right old mess after a busy night.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

plurker said:


> 'cleaning' is different to 'refurbishing'...
> 
> edit - for clarity, I've never been into the Albert, so don't know what the toiletes a) were like nor b) are currently like



The walls & fixtures were regularly scrawled on and there were plenty of stickers. It was cleaned off now and again but always reappeared.

This latest refurb appears to have come with an optional brainwash option.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 4, 2012)

Onket said:


> The walls & fixtures were regularly scrawled on and there were plenty of stickers. It was cleaned off now and again but always reappeared.
> 
> This latest refurb appears to have come with an optional brainwash option.


 
Didn't this site once organise a graffing competition in the Albert's toilets to raise money for the server fund or am I misremembering?


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Didn't this site once organise a graffing competition in the Albert's toilets to raise money for the server fund or am I misremembering?


I'd like a line of whatever you're on please.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Didn't this site once organise a graffing competition in the Albert's toilets to raise money for the server fund or am I misremembering?





I doubt it.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Didn't this site once organise a graffing competition in the Albert's toilets to raise money for the server fund or am I misremembering?


 
Quite literally an Urban myth in the making.....


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:
			
		

> Didn't this site once organise a graffing competition in the Albert's toilets to raise money for the server fund or am I misremembering?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> I'd like a line of whatever you're on please.


 
It must have been somewhere else I was thinking of.

Still it might be a good idea...


----------



## el-ahrairah (Dec 4, 2012)

zenie said:


> View attachment 25710
> 
> I'm not sure why such a big deal was made about it, apart from the fact that the guys involved drink in the pub so it's a bit like shitting on your own doorstop. There used to be tonnes of graffiti in the ladies.


 

i was informed that at one stage a message on the wall of the ladies read "WHITHER CHEESYPOOF?" or something similar.  there is a long history of urban75 injokes and pub toilet walls.  if this thread goes on for long enough i'll go through a few dvds of photos and see some of my collection.

also, someone wrote "big dog's cock" on my neighbours frontwall earlier this year.  i always assumed it was an urbanite.


----------



## fogbat (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Didn't this site once organise a graffing competition in the Albert's toilets to raise money for the server fund or am I misremembering?


Should we start one now?


----------



## plurker (Dec 4, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> if this thread goes on for long enough i'll go through a few dvds of photos and see some of my collection.


 
I reckon 18 pages is almost there in terms of thread-longevity...


----------



## ska invita (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Didn't this site once organise a graffing competition in the Albert's toilets to raise money for the server fund or am I misremembering?


yeah yeah i remember that. oh the hippocrazzy


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 4, 2012)

I've just scoured the archives for some of the editor's photos of graffitti have they all been removed as a response to the tagging controversy?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> The Albert toilets have never been "covered" in "half-ripped down stickers."


 
yes they have mate, cmon.


----------



## Dandred (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I've just scoured the archives for some of the editor's photos of graffitti have they all been removed as a response to the tagging controversy?


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 4, 2012)

fogbat said:


> Should we start one now?


 
Again?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Dec 4, 2012)

plurker said:


> I reckon 18 pages is almost there in terms of thread-longevity...


 
goes on long enough for me to get home and go through the cds.

this is one of my photos, from the back of the albert toilet door a few years ago.  i always wondered what they were thinking...


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I've just scoured the archives for some of the editor's photos of graffitti have they all been removed as a response to the tagging controversy?


 
almost as revealing as Capt Hurrah's devotion to reading Laura Penny since  2009


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I've just scoured the archives for some of the editor's photos of graffitti have they all been removed as a response to the tagging controversy?


What?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 4, 2012)

Is a shit tagger like a scatalogical relay race?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> What?


 
C'mon what have you done with them?


----------



## DJ Squelch (Dec 4, 2012)

Well this one is still there, Editor thought this looked like "a proper rock'n'roll toilet"
http://www.urban75.org/blog/christmas-covers-party-luminaire/
Sounds a bit like he might be condoning the vandalizing of a venue to me.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 4, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:


> Well this one is still there, Editor thought this looked like "a proper rock'n'roll toilet"
> http://www.urban75.org/blog/christmas-covers-party-luminaire/
> Sounds a bit like he might be condoning the vandalizing of a venue to me.


 
It does look rock n roll as well


----------



## Frances Lengel (Dec 4, 2012)

Few things look better than a well executed marker tag.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:


> Well this one is still there, Editor thought this looked like "a proper rock'n'roll toilet"
> http://www.urban75.org/blog/christmas-covers-party-luminaire/
> Sounds a bit like he might be condoning the vandalizing of a venue to me.


That'll be because it was in a proper rock and roll club. 

The venue also stuck up all the mixer desk tape over the walls themselves, so I imagine it's reasonable to say that they were happy with other folks contributing.

It's a bit of a rock'n'roll tradition for rock venue dressing rooms/toilets, although there was no graffiti or tagging inside the main venue space.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> C'mon what have you done with them?


I haven't removed a single picture.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> I haven't removed a single picture.


 
OK I believe you 1000's wouldn't


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> OK I believe you 1000's wouldn't


No. I really haven't removed any pictures. Why on earth would I?


----------



## snadge (Dec 4, 2012)

Marker pen tags on ceramic tiles, easy to remove, takes 2 mins with solvent.

Graffiti, most of it is awful and is a PITA to cover.

Fly posters, worst of the lot, awful photocopied junk using a type of glue only found on moons of Jupiter.


There is loads of Hypocrisy in this thread.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

snadge said:


> Fly posters, worst of the lot, awful photocopied junk using a type of glue only found on moons of Jupiter.


They're usually stuck on with blue-tack indoors. Taking in a bucket of glue and a brush into public houses often raises suspicions.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 4, 2012)

snadge said:


> There is loads of Hypocrisy in this thread.


 
Hypocrisy is an urban 5 a day......


----------



## snadge (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> They're usually stuck on with blue-tack indoors. Taking in a bucket of glue and a brush into public houses often raises suspicions.


 

Seen plenty of glued on crap on Pub bog walls.

Seen some funny comments as Graff also.

Tags well, most are crap but you do see some half decent ideas.

Graffitti, I have seen some awesome stuff but most of it is junk.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

snadge said:


> Marker pen tags on ceramic tiles, easy to remove, takes 2 mins with solvent.


Took two hours to get rid of this lot, apparently. With a solvent.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 4, 2012)

Is window scratching still a thing? That's probably my least favourite of them all.


----------



## snadge (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Took two hours to get rid of this lot, apparently. With a solvent.


 

must have been a marker pen from the same Jupiter moon as the glue that is used for flyposters then, poetic justice maybe.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> Is window scratching still a thing? That's probably my least favourite of them all.


Irritates the fuck out of me too, especially when you're on a night bus trying to look for landmarks outside so you know when to get off.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

snadge said:


> must have been a marker pen from the same Jupiter moon as the glue that is used for flyposters then, poetic justice maybe.


I think it's much trickier to remove when it's also soaked into the grout around the tiles. This doofus had also scrawled over the wooden tables too, and I can't imagine that wouldn't be too easy to get off. It's hard to get off exposed brickwork too, apparently.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> That'll be because it was in a proper rock and roll club.
> 
> The venue also stuck up all the mixer desk tape over the walls themselves, so I imagine it's reasonable to say that they were happy with other folks contributing.



So your problem with it isn't about the tagging looking shit (it doesn't look particularly talented stuff in that rock and roll venue either) your issue is about consent; on which basis you must disapprove of 95% of all graffiti as consent is seldom sought.

In fact, that's the _whole point_ of graffiti.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So your problem with it isn't about the tagging looking shit (it doesn't look particularly talented stuff in that rock and roll venue either) your issue is about consent; on which basis you must disapprove of 95% of all graffiti as consent is seldom sought.


They must have called you Mr Protractor at school, given all the angles you keep on coming up with.

PS Tagging and graffiti. Not the same thing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> They must have called you Mr Protractor at school, given all the angles you keep on coming up with.
> 
> PS Tagging and graffiti. Not the same thing.


so you're saying that the graffiti i've seen from 500 years ago where someone's scratched their name into a painting on a church wall isn't exactly graffiti but tagging on the basis that...


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> They must have called you Mr Protractor at school, given all the angles you keep on coming up with.
> 
> PS Tagging and graffiti. Not the same thing.


Just post up your definition of graffiti so we can have a good laugh at it


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Just post up your definition of graffiti so we can have a good laugh at it


'We' can fuck off.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Dec 4, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> I used to work in a lab and we had to buy super special markers that wouldn't get erased by our ethanol sterilisations.


 
Dykem ones? The ink in most markers nowadays is shit since they stopped putting xylene in it. You couldn't whack original pilot, edding or pentel ink.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> They must have called you Mr Protractor at school, given all the angles you keep on coming up with.


 
I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE, LOLOLSS11211!!


----------



## Manter (Dec 4, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE, LOLOLSS11211!!


it did actually make me laugh.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> 'We' can fuck off.


& your definition of graffiti is?


----------



## DJ Squelch (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> It's a bit of a rock'n'roll tradition for rock venue dressing rooms/toilets,


 
Well then you shouldn't be that surprised when a venue where you regularly put on bands gets the odd bit of graffiti in the toilets.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2012)

Damn an almost 20 page thread and no member of the bbc has been implicated..


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> PS Tagging and graffiti. Not the same thing.



Not sure what the big difference between what was scrawled on the wall of the Albert's bogs and what is scrawled on the wall of that rock and roll club's bogs is. They both use a marker pen. Although with the tagging the typography has probably had a little more forethought.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> can you remind me what it says in the faq about abuse?


The link's right there at the top of the page.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

The person who painted over this graff was a 'muppet' apparently-

http://www.urban75.org/blog/brixtons-lost-banksy-graffiti/


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:


> Well then you shouldn't be that surprised when a venue where you regularly put on bands gets the odd bit of graffiti in the toilets.


Where have I expressed "surprise"?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> The link's right there at the top of the page.


It's not in favour of it tho is it


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Onket said:


> The person who painted over this graff was a 'muppet' apparently-
> 
> http://www.urban75.org/blog/brixtons-lost-banksy-graffiti/


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> They must have called you Mr Protractor at school, given all the angles you keep on coming up with.



New tagline coming up.

(did you see what I did there?)


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> It's not in favour of it tho is it


Spit out your point, if you have one.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2012)

Onket said:


> The person who painted over this graff was a 'muppet' apparently-
> 
> http://www.urban75.org/blog/brixtons-lost-banksy-graffiti/




That's not graffing

The cunt use's stencils

*shakes fist at sky*


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

Vandalised train-

http://www.urban75.org/blog/pics-of-the-day-graffiti-train-farringdon-london/


----------



## DJ Squelch (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Where have I expressed "surprise"?


You seem rather upset by it but not the stuff at Luminaire.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


>


 
Indeed. How your views have changed.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2012)

Have you written an angry worded letter to the fail?


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

Just look at this mess- http://www.urban75.org/blog/5pointz-queens-nyc-the-most-graffitid-building-in-new-york/


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Spit out your point, if you have one.


 Given you came up with the faq it's disappointing to see you pay no heed to them.

it would be good to see you post up your peculiar definition of graffiti which seems to say some sorts of commonly understood graffiti aren't actually graffiti.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:


> You seem rather upset by it but not the stuff at Luminaire.


Can you really not see the difference? I mean _really?_


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Given you came up with the faq it's disappointing to see you pay no heed to them.


Exactly which part of the FAQ am I breaking? Please detail your case.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

Relentless! 

Editor, I applaud you!


----------



## DJ Squelch (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Can you really not see the difference? I mean _really?_


 
I can see you being a massive hypocrite who things it's OK to call graffiti clad toilets in one venue "rock'n'roll" but then when it gets done at your mate's venue you throw your toys out the pram.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:


> I can see you being a massive hypocrite who things it's OK to call graffiti clad toilets in one venue as "rock'n'roll" but then when it gets done at your mate's venue you throw your toys out the pram.


Have you ever been to the Albert?


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Have you ever been to the Albert?


 
Oooh, wonder where this is going.......


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Onket said:


> Oooh, wonder where this is going.......


Relentless! 

Onket, I applaud you!


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

Unexpected. Good work.

20 pages too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Not that I have any great interest in the Albert toilets one way or the other, but this is just a load of bollocks. A bunch of people are attacking the ed because he has here said he doesn't like this example of shit tags in loos, but has in the past posted some stuff indicating he thinks some graff and/or tagging is fine in other places. _Well fuck me sideways what a hypocrite._ Imagine not liking one thing, but thinking some other things are okay. Jesus fucking christ.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

And the fact that he is denying the Albert toilets had graff and stickers in them before, despite actually taking a picture of it himself! 

This truly is a great thread.


----------



## colacubes (Dec 4, 2012)

Fucksake.  Can everyone stop being such fucking abnoxious pricks.  This is the sort of bullshit circular argument I'd expect to see in P&P.  Get a grip and a bit of perspective ffs.

Seriously this thread makes me want to walk away from Urban for a good long time.  And that makes me really fucking sad.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Onket said:


> And the fact that he is denying the Albert toilets had graff and stickers in them before, despite actually taking a picture of it himself!
> 
> This truly is a great thread.


No, that isn't it is it? It's just a pile-on.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Fucksake. Can everyone stop being such fucking abnoxious pricks. This is the sort of bullshit circular argument I'd expect to see in P&P. Get a grip and a bit of perspective ffs.
> 
> Seriously this thread makes me want to walk away from Urban for a good long time. And that makes me really fucking sad.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Fucksake. Can everyone stop being such fucking abnoxious pricks. This is the sort of bullshit circular argument I'd expect to see in P&P. Get a grip and a bit of perspective ffs.
> 
> Seriously this thread makes me want to walk away from Urban for a good long time. And that makes me really fucking sad.


I've just about had enough, really.


----------



## colacubes (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> I've just about had enough, really.


 
You're as much part of the problem as anyone else in this.  Seriously.  Everyone on all sides is behaving ridiculously.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not that I have any great interest in the Albert toilets one way or the other, but this is just a load of bollocks. A bunch of people are attacking the ed because he has here said he doesn't like this example of shit tags in loos, but has in the past posted some stuff indicating he thinks some graff and/or tagging is fine in other places. _Well fuck me sideways what a hypocrite._ Imagine not liking one thing, but thinking some other things are okay. Jesus fucking christ.



It's because I can understand people either liking graffiti or not. In fact I can understand them liking the arty stuff but not tagging although I don't agree. Seems a bit rich to devote sections of your own website to it though and even post a guide to flyposting (in pub bogs, no less!) but then piss and moan when it's visited upon your local though. He's set himself up for this thread; some may even say on purpose.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No, that isn't it is it?


 
That's entirely it for me. That and the fact that he thinks it's acceptable to call others liars and twist their words, just because they don't agree with him. I've gone into more detail earlier on the thread, I'm not repeating it now.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

nipsla said:


> You're as much part of the problem as anyone else in this. Seriously. Everyone on all sides is behaving ridiculously.


 
'as much part'?

He's entirely the fucking problem, FFS!


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

nipsla said:


> You're as much part of the problem as anyone else in this.  Seriously.  Everyone on all sides is behaving ridiculously.



I didn't think anyone was taking it that seriously, actually. This sort of thing happens daily on urban; always has, always will.


----------



## colacubes (Dec 4, 2012)

Onket said:


> That's entirely it for me. That and the fact that he thinks it's acceptable to call others liars and twist their words, just because they don't agree with him. I've gone into more detail earlier on the thread, I'm not repeating it now.


 
And you called him mentally ill.  Everyone needs their fucking heads banged together.  No one is covering themselves in glory here.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

nipsla said:


> And you called him mentally ill. Everyone needs their fucking heads banged together. No one is covering themselves in glory here.


 
I asked him if he was mentally ill. And it was a fucking serious question. You think his behaviour here is normal? Fuck me!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> It's because I can understand people either liking graffiti or not. In fact I can understand them liking the arty stuff but not tagging although I don't agree. Seems a bit rich to devote sections of your own website to it though and even post a guide to flyposting (in pub bogs, no less!) but then piss and moan when it's visited upon your local though. He's set himself up for this thread; some may even say on purpose.


I don't think it does at all. I like a lot of graff and if I had a website I'd put up pics of examples I liked, though I don't (I've done some 3D stuff with the Foundry but that's by the by). The shit tagging that has been done in the loos at my own local can fuck the fuck off - yes you with your fucking bear face.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Onket said:


> That's entirely it for me. That and the fact that he thinks it's acceptable to call others liars and twist their words, just because they don't agree with him. I've gone into more detail earlier on the thread, I'm not repeating it now.


I don't believe that's it for you at all, I think you just want to have a go tbh.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I don't believe that's it for you at all, I think you just want to have a go tbh.


 
You are entitled to your opinion. If he'd not been quite so much of a tool, accused me of lying, and repeatedly demanded information I'd already posted then perhaps things would have been different. He has very much made his bed.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I don't think it does at all. I like a lot of graff and if I had a website I'd put up pics of examples I liked, though I don't (I've done some 3D stuff with the Foundry but that's by the by). The shit tagging that has been done in the loos at my own local can fuck the fuck off - yes you with your fucking bear face.



Seriously? It's only pub bogs!  if someone scrawled their name on your granny's windows I'd understand, but somewhere you go and piss when you're on the sauce? It's par for the course in London going by most pub bogs I've frequented and that includes most places I've been to in Brixton including the Albert!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 4, 2012)

I thought this was just a late contender for the boeuf de l'année thread.


----------



## colacubes (Dec 4, 2012)

Oh fuck you all you childish pricks.


----------



## Onket (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Seriously? It's only pub bogs!  if someone scrawled their name on your granny's windows I'd understand, but somewhere you go and piss when you're on the sauce? It's par for the course in London going by most pub bogs I've frequented and that includes most places I've been to in Brixton including the Albert!


 
No, you are a liar. The Albert bogs have always been clean as a whistle until this bunch appeared with their pesky marker pens.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Seriously? It's only pub bogs!  if someone scrawled their name on your granny's windows I'd understand, but somewhere you go and piss when you're on the sauce? It's par for the course in London going by most pub bogs I've frequented and that includes most places I've been to in Brixton including the Albert!


No, I don't like it when somebody covers the loos of my local with shit tags. They by definition look shit and I have to look at them every time I go for a piss.

Come off it, this isn't exactly a difficult position is it?


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No, I don't like it when somebody covers the loos of my local with shit tags. They by definition look shit and I have to look at them every time I go for a piss.
> 
> Come off it, this isn't exactly a difficult position is it?



Depends whether you enjoy graffiti at the more arty end of the scale I suppose. One comes from the other as I've said repeatedly on this thread. If you don't like graffiti full stop then yeah, it isn't a difficult position. If you do, chances are the artist whose work you enjoy started out tagging bog walls.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Depends whether you enjoy graffiti at the more arty end of the scale I suppose. One comes from the other as I've said repeatedly on this thread. If you don't like graffiti full stop then yeah, it isn't a difficult position. If you do, chances are the artist whose work you enjoy started out tagging bog walls.


I'm not pampering twats with markers who tag bog walls with shite in the hope that they then later grow up to be _srs artists_.

Hey, maybe they do, good luck to them, but I'm not going to say "oh well done okay it may be shite but you could grow into something worthwhile". That's pretty much the definition of patronising.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 4, 2012)

tagging is the very essence of graffiti. i fucking love it.

(awaits some stupid twat saying "what if they tagged your car? or your mom?)


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 4, 2012)

I can't believe this thread is still going. In fact I still can't believe this is even a thread, the OP is exactly the kind of thing that the Brixton chitter chatter thread is for. 20 pages ???


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2012)

So what is the difference between tagging and graffiti?


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm not pampering twats with markers who tag bog walls with shite in the hope that they then later grow up to be _srs artists_.
> 
> Hey, maybe they do, good luck to them, but I'm not going to say "oh well done okay it may be shite but you could grow into something worthwhile". That's pretty much the definition of patronising.



So you now have to set out where the line is drawn (pardon the pun). Who is and isn't allowed to graffiti in your view, what ability they must have before it is allowable and where is and isn't acceptable. And in doing so you will have this thread as the result.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

discokermit said:


> tagging is the very essence of graffiti. i fucking love it.
> 
> (awaits some stupid twat saying "what if they tagged your car? or your mom?)


Oh we should applaud it all without differentiation because it's all _the essence of graffiti_ fwah fwah fwah.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 4, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I can't believe this thread is still going. In fact I still can't believe this is even a thread, the OP is exactly the kind of thing that the Brixton chitter chatter thread is for. 20 pages ???


 
But which December Brixton thread should it be in?  December chat or the December Ding Dongs?  Whole thread does seem like a bit of a Ding Dong


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 4, 2012)

Graffiti is acceptable if it is funny or beautiful.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So you now have to set out where the line is drawn (pardon the pun). Who is and isn't allowed to graffiti in your view, what ability they must have before it is allowable and where is and isn't acceptable. And in doing so you will have this thread as the result.


What I have an issue with is lots of people criticising the ed not for his opinions about what is good or not, but because he has any at all and yet has _dared_ to say that he likes some things in the sphere of "graffiti" in the past. As if everything from tagging to huge planned murals were the same.


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 4, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> But which December Brixton thread should it be in? December chat or the December Ding Dongs? Whole thread does seem like a bit of a Ding Dong


 
The Brixton chitter chatter thread should never have been split into separate monthly threads in the first place, let alone this ridiculous situation we have now with two chitter chatter threads every month.  What a sorry state the Brixton forum has become since the gentrifiers moved in.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh we should applaud it all without differentiation because it's all _the essence of graffiti_ fwah fwah fwah.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> What I have an issue with is lots of people criticising the ed not for his opinions about what is good or not, but because he has any at all and yet has _dared_ to say that he likes some things in the sphere of "graffiti" in the past. As if everything from tagging to huge planned murals were the same.



Well a huge planned mural doesn't really come into it as it isn't illicit (if by 'planned' you mean planned by an official body). So obviously it isn't the same. But we're discussing graffiti, not huge planned murals.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Well a huge planned mural doesn't really come into it as it isn't illicit. So obviously it isn't the same. But we're discussing graffiti, not huge planned murals.


Do you really want me to change that to make the murals part into something "illicit"? (Which it could be.)

Oh okay, fine. As if everything from tagging _to a huge planned mural done without official permission, assuming everything was at the same level of illicitness_ were the same. The basic meaning is unchanged.


----------



## spitfire (Dec 4, 2012)

21 pages, holy crap.

Editors right, taggings a cunts game.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Do you really want me to change that to make the murals part into something "illicit"? (Which it could be.)
> 
> Oh okay, fine. As if everything from tagging _to a huge planned mural done without official permission, assuming everything was at the same level of illicitness_ were the same. The basic meaning is unchanged.



Right, yeah, I agree with that. But it isn't representative of this thread though, which you obviously haven't read.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Right, yeah, I agree with that. But it isn't representative of this thread though, which you obviously haven't read.


I have obviously and you obviously haven't obviously, if we're going to do it that way. Obviously.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I have obviously and you obviously haven't obviously, if we're going to do it that way. Obviously.


 
Who was arguing the example you gave?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Who was arguing the example you gave?


Which example are you referring to?


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 4, 2012)

editor said:


> That makes me legs go wobbly! Shame the graffiti is so shite after they've gone to so much effort though.


You go up there and do good graf then!


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

Are you trying to bore me into submission or something?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Right, that works.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

Look man, it's all in the thread. You've created some straw man that doesn't really represent the main thrust of arguments for reasons known only to yourself. Or to take heat off your mate at a time when the thread was all about finished.


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## TruXta (Dec 4, 2012)

"It's all a bit of banter" doesn't quite describe the last 21 pages does it? Fucksake.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Look man, it's all in the thread. You've created some straw man that doesn't really represent the main thrust of arguments for reasons known only to yourself. Or to take heat off your mate at a time when the thread was all about finished.


And you've created a false binary whereby you have to be cheering on every piss-weasel's scrawl else you condemn all graffiti art. Whatever that might be. You're no better than anyone else.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

Who said that then?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Look man, it's all in the thread. You've created some straw man that doesn't really represent the main thrust of arguments for reasons known only to yourself. Or to take heat off your mate at a time when the thread was all about finished.


That would be a straw man that you can't describe. I've been pretty clear about what I've said - I'll repeat it actually, "I have an issue with is lots of people criticising the ed not for his opinions about what is good or not, but because he has any at all and yet has _dared_ to say that he likes some things in the sphere of "graffiti" in the past". Apparently the problem with that was that I mentioned an imaginary huge planned mural. Sorry.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

TruXta said:


> And you've created a false binary whereby you have to be cheering on every piss-weasel's scrawl else you condemn all graffiti art. Whatever that might be. You're no better than anyone else.


 


Thread ended ages ago. Find another party.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Who said that then?


You did. "Most the good ones started as taggers." Like Fridge said, so what? If I think some 12 y.o.'s tags are shit and he should stop I'll tell him or her that. If I stop dead in his tracks the future Michelangelo of graffiti by so doing I couldn't care.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 4, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> But which December Brixton thread should it be in? December chat or the December Ding Dongs? Whole thread does seem like a bit of a Ding Dong


 

Can someone explain to me what's going on with the chitter chatter threads? I used to follow it when it was one continuous thread, then since it went monthly I generally haven't because I don't get automatically subscribed to the new one each month. Now people are talking about two threads per month. My head hurts


----------



## TruXta (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Who said that then?


Oh, get which post you referred to. That was at Onket.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That would be a straw man that you can't describe. I've been pretty clear about what I've said - I'll repeat it actually, "I have an issue with is lots of people criticising the ed not for his opinions about what is good or not, but because he has any at all and yet has _dared_ to say that he likes some things in the sphere of "graffiti" in the past". Apparently the problem with that was that I mentioned an imaginary huge planned mural. Sorry.


 
Look, go back through the thread and pick people up on their points if you're interested. It isn't my job to recreate it all retrospectively for late comers.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 4, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Can someone explain to me what's going on with the chitter chatter threads? I used to follow it when it was one continuous thread, then since it went monthly I generally haven't because I don't get automatically subscribed to the new one each month. Now people are talking about two threads per month. My head hurts


 
Well I think it started when someone started a thread header which didn't tie in with the traditional format. It became a running joke after that as to who could get the best subject header rather than a more traditional Monthly Chitter Chatter thread. However, a non-traditional subject header seemed to be confusing certain people, so there is the traditional official monthly thread and various non-traditional unofficial threads. I think this particular thread should be in the December Ding Dong thread, but that's just my opinion. Actually it shouldn't, because that's supposed to be a fun thread, and this thread would kill the fun in the Ding Dong thread.

Oh, and the traditional official monthly thread is a sticky, whereas the non-traditional unofficial threads aren't.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

TruXta said:


> You did. "Most the good ones started as taggers." Like Fridge said, so what? If I think some 12 y.o.'s tags are shit and he should stop I'll tell him or her that. If I stop dead in his tracks the future Michelangelo of graffiti by so doing I couldn't care.


 
So how will you police them?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Look, go back through the thread and pick people up on their points if you're interested. It isn't my job to recreate it all retrospectively for late comers.


Lol.

"Well a huge planned mural doesn't really come into it as it isn't illicit (if by 'planned' you mean planned by an official body). So obviously it isn't the same. But we're discussing graffiti, not huge planned murals." (wat)
"Right, yeah, I agree with that. But it isn't representative of this thread though, which you obviously haven't read." (plain insult, no justification given)
"Who was arguing the example you gave?" (no example existed or was delivered)

I just don't feel like giving it up. What was the example that I gave which was wrong?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 4, 2012)

in this thread fonzi got eaten by the shark


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

Chat threads kill forums.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So how will you police them?


I'll not police anyone, I'll just tell them to stop because it looks like shit. If they don't stop I'll tell them it'll give'm cancer. If that doesn't work at least I tried.


----------



## joustmaster (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm tempted to pop in to the Albert tomorrow, and tag the shit out of the toilets, just to keep the thread going


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Lol.
> 
> "Well a huge planned mural doesn't really come into it as it isn't illicit (if by 'planned' you mean planned by an official body). So obviously it isn't the same. But we're discussing graffiti, not huge planned murals." (wat)
> "Right, yeah, I agree with that. But it isn't representative of this thread though, which you obviously haven't read." (plain insult, no justification given)
> ...


 
You're trying to summarise a 21 page thread into a handy argument which doesn't represent the arguments on the thread because you clearly haven't read it. Why should I do your leg work? The thread starts at page one btw.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 4, 2012)

TruXta said:


> I'll not police anyone,


best idea. they'd only tag your face and make you cry if you did.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> You're trying to summarise a 21 page thread into a handy argument which doesn't represent the arguments on the thread because you clearly haven't read it. Why should I do your leg work? The thread starts at page one btw.


I've read the whole thread btw, it's quite boring. I read some of it a day or two ago and caught up today. (Potentially yesterday.)

What was the example that I gave which was wrong? You said that I gave an example which was wrong. What was it? Stop with this "read the thread" bullshit; this is a simple question, you said there was an example.

("Sorry no I didn't mean that but what I meant was" would be a perfectly decent response and not one that would be dangerous. I'd rather that than some bollocking  back and forward and wouldn't have a go.)


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 5, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've read the whole thread btw, it's quite boring. I read some of it a day or two ago and caught up today. (Potentially yesterday.)
> 
> What was the example that I gave which was wrong? You said that I gave an example which was wrong. What was it? Stop with this "read the thread" bullshit; this is a simple question, you said there was an example.


 


FridgeMagnet said:


> What I have an issue with is lots of people criticising the ed not for his opinions about what is good or not, *but because he has any at all and yet has _dared_ to say that he likes some things in the sphere of "graffiti" in the past. As if everything from tagging to huge planned murals were the same.*


 
That. What has it got to do with what people have been arguing? It isn't representative of the discussion, in my view. Why not take some actual posts to task instead of creating a new argument?


----------



## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Can someone explain to me what's going on with the chitter chatter threads? I used to follow it when it was one continuous thread, then since it went monthly I generally haven't because I don't get automatically subscribed to the new one each month. Now people are talking about two threads per month. My head hurts



Who do you bloody think happened to it?!


----------



## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

joustmaster said:


> I'm tempted to pop in to the Albert tomorrow, and tag the shit out of the toilets, just to keep the thread going



Seeing as they've always had tags etc in them as far back as I remember, it's sure to happen again at some point anyway.


----------



## Athos (Dec 5, 2012)

I don't see anything wrong with editor saying that he doesn't like the tags, and that he wishes they hadn't been done. But that ought to come with a recognition that, since he doesn't object to graffiti per se on private property grounds, his position on the tagging is an aesthetic one. And that a consequence of that fact is that, on objective grounds, the tagger is no more or less of a dick than anyone who creates any piece of graffiti (or indeed any piece of art) that somebody else dislikes. To try to exclude tagging from a definition of graffiti at the same time as declining to offer a definition is a disingenuous way to defend an aesthetic judgement, and was always bound to result in allegations of hypocrisy. What's more, to base the value of graffiti on the the extent to which it is acceptable to those who feel a proprietary interest in what has been written on is to miss the point of graffiti altogether.


----------



## Athos (Dec 5, 2012)

Double post.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Pretty low risk in the Albert toilets though. Biggest danger would be slipping on the misdirected pee.


 
Unless you lot catch them at it, though. Then it will be hanging, drawing, and quartering.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Yep. They get messy on a busy night, but that's down to the sloppy punters, not the decor.


 
How much time do you spend in pub loos, anyway?

I try to get in and out quick as I can. First off, I usually have to go pretty bad before I head in there. Mainly, I focus on hitting the urinal, then not dripping piss on my trousers.
Also, my beer and mates are waiting - outside the loo.

I don't spend a lot of time bantering with the other urinal-users, nor gawking about at the decor. I don't care about the decor. I want a urinal that isn't plugged, and I'm happy.

Were you an interior decorator in one of your previous jobs?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

I'm still quite interested in editor explaining why in his view tagging and graffiti are two different things. but he's run away from that like some sort of wuss.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 5, 2012)

Has that xanadu bloke been drinking in the Albert recently?


----------



## tendril (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> I'm still quite interested in editor explaining why in his view tagging and graffiti are two different things. but he's run away from that like some sort of wuss.


Imho, tagging has no artistic merit whereas grafitti (if done well) has both artistic merit and social comment.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

tendril said:


> Imho, tagging has no artistic merit whereas grafitti (if done well) has both artistic merit and social comment.


Graffiti is pictures or writing scratched, written or painted on a wall in a public place against the law. Tagging is a subset of graffiti. Artistick merit doesn't come into the equation and nor does social comment: some graffiti may have either or both - but it is where and how it is written, painted or scratched which makes it graffiti, not the content.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

i wait with interest to see where editor differs with me


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

I don't think "against the law" is necessary nor accurate.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 5, 2012)

'Illicit' is more apt.


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> I'm still quite interested in editor explaining why in his view tagging and graffiti are two different things. but he's run away from that like some sort of wuss.


Seeing as you're having problems with Google today, here's some definitions for you:


> The difference between tagging and graffiti is arguable, but some say it's a clear one: tagging is gang-motivated and/or meant as vandalism (illegal) or viewed as too vulgar or controversial to have public value; while graffiti can be viewed as creative expression, whether charged with political meaning or not.
> http://www.huntfor.com/arthistory/C20th/graffiti.htm





> The ability to produce complicated pieces is what separates the tagger from the graffiti artist; graffitist for short. Taggers scribble and graffitists do art.
> 
> In addition, graffiti art is not a spontaneous activity like tagging in the form of fancy scribble. The completion of a piece or a production involves a great deal of imagination, planning, and effort.
> http://www.graffiti.org/faq/stowers.html





> 1. Street Art is constructive, Graffiti Tagging is destructive.
> 2. Street Art adorns the urban landscape, Graffiti Tagging scars it and accelerates urban decay.
> 3. Street Art stretches your mind, Graffiti Tagging is a slap in your face.
> 4. Street Art is about the audience, Graffiti Tagging is about the tagger.
> ...


I have no intention of having any more involvement with this thread, btw.


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> 'Illicit' is more apt.


In a UK context that's probably apt, outside the UK it really depends where and what.


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

unknown toy (i.e. a no-mark in graff world) tags bog gets 22 page thread of free publicity on urban75. result!!!


I'm an ex graffiti writer and if I had got this much publicity ever time I had tagged a wall I'd be more famous than that cunt banksy ha ha


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

i still love graff by the way, from the smallest scratched tag in a bus window to the 100ft mural. it's all good.


----------



## Manter (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Seeing as you're having problems with Google today, here's some definitions for you:


Interesting definitions, but who polices the boundary?

Some stuff is really easy to stick in one slot or another:  What happened in the albert was clearly (in my view) tagging: the battle of waterloo stuff is graffitti.  But what about the stuff along the Thameslink along from Tulse Hill to Elephant?  There are shit tags, political slogans of varying levels of sophistication and some fabulous grafitti pieces (though the person whose bathroom window is partially obscured by one piece may not be so quite so enamoured). 

E2A and now I think about it, the battle of waterloo is organised so may not be graffitti.  My brain hurts


----------



## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

krink said:


> unknown toy (i.e. a no-mark in graff world) tags bog gets 22 page thread of free publicity on urban75. result!!!
> 
> 
> I'm an ex graffiti writer and if I had got this much publicity ever time I had tagged a wall I'd be more famous than that cunt banksy ha ha



I've seen Drawer & Manik about a bit over the past few years. Can't quite make out the other ones, but it's a pretty shit photo tbf.


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

Onket said:


> I've seen Drawer & Manik about a bit over the past few years.


 
yeah, i'm not really up on the london scene these days, bit past it now


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:
			
		

> In a UK context that's probably apt, outside the UK it really depends where and what.



In the context of this thread.


----------



## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

krink said:


> yeah, i'm not really up on the london scene these days, bit past it now



Me too. It never really goes away, though. I'm always on the lookout on the bus or train.


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

i still can't resist a decent pen if i see one when shopping with mrs & kids. they think i'm daft (true) and i honestly have no idea why i now have a box of pens that never been used! saw a proper old school edding pen the other day and i had no money on me....would have racked that in a flash in the old days!!


----------



## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

I got rid of all mine the last time I got nicked (for something else) cos I was paranoid they might search the house!


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

never thought of that, hmmmm time to store them elsewhere haha


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Seeing as you're having problems with Google today, here's some definitions for you:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no intention of having any more involvement with this thread, btw.


i'm having no problems with google. as far as i'm concerned the quotes you post only highlight a spurious distinction made for snobbish purposes. if all illicit writing or drawing on walls has been considered graffiti for centuries, what has changed so much in the relatively few years since the invention of the spray paint or marker pen?

your refusal to enage with this point yesterday when i first raised it - resorting instead to abuse - and your refusal to continue your involvement with a thread you started doesn't, i suggest, support your points, rather implying your acceptance of the weakness of your argument.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> I don't think "against the law" is necessary nor accurate.


it is necessary and accurate as graffiti is forbidden. it isn't a nice comfy thing, it's something which is by definition outside the law - whether you use the word illicit or the longer phrase, against the law. this differentiates graffiti from public art or from the sanctioned and approved decoration of shopfronts. so, for example, the 'graffiti art' adorning jack's off licence on stroud green road is not graffiti as it was done for pay for the offie's owners. similar painting along the railway by eg paddington would be graffiti owing to its unapproved and illicit, illegal, against the law character.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> it is necessary and accurate as graffiti is forbidden. it isn't a nice comfy thing, it's something which is by definition outside the law - whether you use the word illicit or the longer phrase, against the law. this differentiates graffiti from public art or from the sanctioned and approved decoration of shopfronts. so, for example, the 'graffiti art' adorning jack's off licence on stroud green road is not graffiti as it was done for pay for the offie's owners. similar painting along the railway by eg paddington would be graffiti owing to its unapproved and illicit, illegal, against the law character.


Again, that's fine in a UK context.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Again, that's fine in a UK context.


i am in a uk context. last time i checked brixton was in a uk context. and an american dictionary supports this for a yankee context: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/graffiti


----------



## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i am in a uk context. last time i checked brixton was in a uk context. and an american dictionary supports this for a yankee context: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/graffiti


According to your definition of graffiti, leaving an etching in stone somewhere in the Peaks would also be graffiti, but I'm not sure that's verboten.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> According to your definition of graffiti, leaving an etching in stone somewhere in the Peaks would also be graffiti, but I'm not sure that's verboten.


only if it was on a wall or other part of a manmade structure. it's not like this would affect people wanting to do cave paintings in an altaick context.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> only if it was on a wall. it's not like this would affect people wanting to do cave paintings in an altaick context.


That's my point. Graffiti according to your definition (got it from Wiki did you?) is every kind of public marking. I'm not sure they're all banned here in the UK. If I sprayed/painted something on the grass in Brockwell Park, is that illegal (given I don't kill the grass)? Not sure myself.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> That's my point. Graffiti according to your definition (got it from Wiki did you?) is every kind of public marking. I'm not sure they're all banned here in the UK. If I sprayed/painted something on the grass in Brockwell Park, is that illegal (given I don't kill the grass)? Not sure myself.


it's not graffiti on the grass, though, is it? you could of course still be charged with criminal damage for it. but graffiti IS every kind of illicit writing, scratching or drawing/painting on a public surface (eg brick, concrete, stone wall). that's what it is. what i suppose editor means by graffiti is a subset of what is generally understood to be graffiti.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:
			
		

> That's my point. Graffiti according to your definition (got it from Wiki did you?) is every kind of public marking. I'm not sure they're all banned here in the UK. If I sprayed/painted something on the grass in Brockwell Park, is that illegal (given I don't kill the grass)? Not sure myself.



It is vandalism so yes.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> it's not graffiti on the grass, though, is it? you could of course still be charged with criminal damage for it. but graffiti IS every kind of illicit writing, scratching or drawing/painting on a public surface (eg brick, concrete, stone wall). that's what it is. what i suppose editor means by graffiti is a subset of what is generally understood to be graffiti.


I sense marginal returns from continuing this line of inquiry. Also I need to evacuate sharpish.


----------



## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

I've seen tags on trees, why not grass? 

I think we really are in danger of going off on one here, though!


----------



## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> It is vandalism so yes.


Sure?


----------



## plurker (Dec 5, 2012)

Onket said:


> I've seen tags on trees, why not grass?


Hyper on a hedge way back at post #351
Grass you'd be better using a plant-killer liquid, to etch back to bare earth


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Sure?



Give it a whirl and let me know?


----------



## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Give it a whirl and let me know?


I'm too old for that kind of thing.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 5, 2012)

plurker said:


> Grass you'd be better using a plant-killer liquid, to etch back to bare earth


Nitrogen-based fertiliser is far better and spookier. The first word to appear via this method was GUANO in the 1790s. I think it was Buckland that did it, to prove a point.


----------



## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

plurker said:


> Hyper on a hedge way back at post #351
> Grass you'd be better using a plant-killer liquid, to etch back to bare earth



Yeah, I did see that. If it's where I think it is on Brixton Hill I think there was another of his on the stone bit under the hedge that wad there for years, probably still there.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 5, 2012)

krink said:


> unknown toy (i.e. a no-mark in graff world) tags bog gets 22 page thread of free publicity on urban75. result!!!
> 
> 
> I'm an ex graffiti writer and if I had got this much publicity ever time I had tagged a wall I'd be more famous than that cunt banksy ha ha


 
I'm not sure a thread in a little read part of an obscure message board counts as publicity - however if it does then I'm sure it will only encourage him to strike again in the same place


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> No. I really haven't removed any pictures. Why on earth would I?


 
Ok.


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

in graff world it all counts spanky, it's all about 'fame'. i wouldn't say U75 was obscure though and i just googled brixton graffiti and urban75 is 5th result (though not specifically this thread)


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 5, 2012)

krink said:


> in graff world it all counts spanky, it's all about 'fame'. i wouldn't say U75 was obscure though and i just googled brixton graffiti and urban75 is 5th result (though not specifically this thread)


 
fair enough - I know nothing about the graff world - good to hear the site has been promoting graffiti in Brixton for a while though.


----------



## fogbat (Dec 5, 2012)

joustmaster said:


> I'm tempted to pop in to the Albert tomorrow, and tag the shit out of the toilets, just to keep the thread going


If graffiti turns up 8ft above the toilet floor, we'll know it was you.


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> good to hear the site has been promoting graffiti in Brixton for a while though.


----------



## plurker (Dec 5, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> fair enough - I know nothing about the graff world - good to hear the site has been promoting graffiti in Brixton for a while though.


Since at least 2004


----------



## Frances Lengel (Dec 5, 2012)

discokermit said:


> tagging is the very essence of graffiti. i fucking love it.
> 
> (awaits some stupid twat saying "what if they tagged your car? or your mom?)


 
Very much so - Earsnot said something along the lines of "Bombing is the essence of graffiti".

I've never understood the farcically OTT hatred some people have of graffiti - Fair enough, you either like it or you don't, but aren't there a lot more deserving causes to get one's knickers in a twist about? Remember when Tox got sent down & there were loads of articles about him in the papers and online - There were eejits coming out with shit like "I'd like to write his tag in sulphuric acid on his forehead, see how he likes that" - Ffs, really?

I do like a good tag, posca on glass is just raw sex but my very favourite kind of graffiti is the old style stuff that has no pretention to art - Just someone's name in a straight letter style.

E2a - I'm wondering if the OP is just a mite disgruntled that the circumference of the glory hole in his local pub's bogs is slightly wider than the hole in a polo mint & therefore every time he sticks his cock through it, he gets laughed out of town?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 5, 2012)




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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 5, 2012)

I found this on a bog door once and it made me happy.....






Although I wouldn't be happy it if was my toilet door......

...perhaps this is the Graffiti Paradox amongst the bourgeois rebels of brixton town....

I like it....but only where I like it....

.....I'm not sure we even had Graffiti in Brixton unitl the 414 had windows.

I blame Gentrification. And Thatcher. And Paint shops.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

I would rather be in a bog with amusing writing all over it, than a pristine one.
Makes for entertaining reading.
My fave one was 'I like Leonard Rossiter' in Public Life in Spitalfields. Someone had scrawled underneath: YOU CUNT!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I would rather be in a bog with amusing writing all over it, than a pristine one.
> Makes for entertaining reading.
> My fave one was 'I like Leonard Rossiter' in Public Life in Spitalfields. Someone had scrawled underneath: YOU CUNT!


Yes, perhaps a snappy retort like that for when you're sitting down having a piss and something longer for when you're having a crap.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

Something to read is essential for any toilet visit


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## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

Just remembered there was a graff shop only a few metres away from the Albert in Market Row until fairly recently.


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## Badgers (Dec 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Something to read is essential for any toilet visit



any?


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## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> any?


Pretty much


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Pretty much


How long do you wee for anyway?


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## Lucy Fur (Dec 5, 2012)

"I Like to shit in my pants" on some fencing in S.Norwood &
"My spunk tastes of smack" on a bog door.
Yep, I found them two pretty amusing. Thats my tuppence for this thread.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> How long do you wee for anyway?


Let's put it this way, he's read all of remembrance of times past while pissing


----------



## Manter (Dec 5, 2012)

((OU's prostate problems))


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## Chilavert (Dec 5, 2012)

Manter said:


> ((OU's prostate problems))


You've out your finger on something there Manter.


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## friedaweed (Dec 5, 2012)

This is a totally different genre to tagging, and graffiti. What you are referring to is called bogging and has no place on this thread

Mind you a lot of taggers started out bogging and we all know where that leads to....






Early Bogsky


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## Manter (Dec 5, 2012)

Chilavert said:


> You've out your finger on something there Manter.


 Eyw


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## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> How long do you wee for anyway?


Not long at all. Still like having summat to read, no matter how brief the visit.


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## Chilavert (Dec 5, 2012)

I have to admit I've never been into the Albert in the four years I've lived in Brixton (bloody middle-class wankers bringing the area down), but will now check it out just to see the toilets.


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Not long at all. Still like having summat to read, no matter how brief the visit.


You just get weirder and weirder every day don't you?


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## plurker (Dec 5, 2012)

Chilavert said:


> I have to admit I've never been into the Albert in the four years I've lived in Brixton (bloody middle-class wankers bringing the area down), but will now check it out just to see the toilets.


I often saunter by but it looks like the sort of place that might have clean toilets and, as a tag- and graff-lover, I get put off by that


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## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

Chilavert said:


> I have to admit I've never been into the Albert in the four years I've lived in Brixton (bloody middle-class wankers bringing the area down), but will now check it out just to see the toilets.



Try the club sandwich, chips and drink for a fiver.


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## Badgers (Dec 5, 2012)

Onket said:
			
		

> Try the club sandwich, chips and drink for a fiver.



Now down to £4.49


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## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

Really? When they've got all that extra graffiti removal gunk to buy?


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## Badgers (Dec 5, 2012)

Onket said:
			
		

> Really? When they've got all that extra graffiti removal gunk to buy?



Surprising eh? 

Might see you on Thursday or Friday?


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## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

Unlikely. Not in work today as the missus' contractions started at 5am.

Nowt since, mind!


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## Badgers (Dec 5, 2012)

Onket said:
			
		

> Unlikely. Not in work today as the missus' contractions started at 5am.
> 
> Nowt since, mind!



Selfish of her  

Send my best though


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## quimcunx (Dec 5, 2012)

Onket said:


> Unlikely. Not in work today as the missus' contractions started at 5am.
> 
> Nowt since, mind!


 
good luck to the Onkfamily.


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## Chilavert (Dec 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Now down to £4.49


This. Changes. Everything.

Will be in before Christmas without fail.

I'll bring my iPad so if any urbanites can recognise me and come and say hello.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Seeing as you're having problems with Google today, here's some definitions for you:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no intention of having any more involvement with this thread, btw.


 
If it was wholesome, legitimate graffiti on the Albert bog wall instead of tagging, would that be ok then?


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## marty21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Onket said:


> Unlikely. Not in work today as the missus' contractions started at 5am.
> 
> Nowt since, mind!


 blimey - all the best with the new onket jr


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 5, 2012)




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## ska invita (Dec 5, 2012)

krink said:


> i just googled brixton graffiti and urban75 is 5th result (though not specifically this thread)


yet


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## fractionMan (Dec 5, 2012)

I am currently in a north London pub and there's no graffiti in the bogs at all.  I feel cheated


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 5, 2012)

Sometimes you gotta use the tools available to get your message across......


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## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I am currently in a north London pub and there's no graffiti in the bogs at all.  I feel cheated


There wasn't in the pub i've been in either


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## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Sometimes you gotta use the tools available to get your message across......


& someone seems to have nicked the cistern


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## Frumious B. (Dec 5, 2012)

25 Pages! An impressive bit of trollwork by editor, building traffic for his own site.


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> 25 Pages! An impressive bit of trollwork by editor, building traffic for his own site.


If only I hadn't forgotten to add the pesky adverts.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 5, 2012)

it seems Jishop has much to tech you still, young padawan


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> it seems Jishop has much to tech you still, young padawan


Yes, I hear he's raking it in. I can only hope that one day too I will become Master Of The Internet.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Seeing as you're having problems with Google today, here's some definitions for you:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no intention of having any more involvement with this thread, btw.





editor said:


> Yes, I hear he's raking it in. I can only hope that one day too I will become Master Of The Internet.


if you are going to flounce off a thread you might as well stay flounced, but if you're in fact going to engage with this thread you can start by answering the question i've put to you - what is your definition of graffiti? and i hope you don't post up some snobby nonsense about how graffiti's art and tagging isn't, because it's a load of auld balls.


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## marty21 (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> & someone seems to have nicked the cistern


 internal cistern - behind the wall I reckon


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> if you are going to flounce off a thread you might as well stay flounced, but if you're in fact going to engage with this thread you can start by answering the question i've put to you - what is your definition of graffiti?


Look out! It's a wind-powered Paxman Pickmans thumping the table with ART questions! 

Sorry old bean, but I've precisely zero interest in debating the fineries of graffiti with an expert like you. That part of the thread kinda went a bit sour for me a while ago so now I'm opting to keep it light, fluffy and fun. You remember fun, don't you?


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2012)

snadge said:


> Fly posters, worst of the lot, awful photocopied junk using a type of glue only found on moons of Jupiter.


 
They have flour paste on the moons of Jupiter???


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

marty21 said:


> internal cistern - behind the wall I reckon


I used to sell loos and have retained a head full of such useless information. P traps, S traps, close coupled, siphonic... why do I remember this when I can't remember things I want to remember?!


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Yes, I hear he's raking it in. I can only hope that one day too I will become Master Of The Internet.


I'm gonna set that up as a degree now. MIn. Master of Internet.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Look out! It's a wind-powered Paxman Pickmans thumping the table with ART questions!
> 
> Sorry old bean, but I've precisely zero interest in debating the fineries of graffiti with an expert like you. That part of the thread kinda went a bit sour for me a while ago so now I'm opting to keep it light, fluffy and fun. You remember fun, don't you?


i feel like paxman, having asked you about this about 14 times. if you think graffiti's 'ART', you don't know what fucking graffiti is; you've chosen to go down the left-hand art school poseur path. is it all art? i think not!


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## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> You just get weirder and weirder every day don't you?


It's hardly weird to be a compulsive reader. Tis a minor quirk. I've discussed this with others who feel equally compelled to read the ingredients of shampoo bottles or whatever is to hand. I've seen a shit stand up do a routine on it.


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> It's hardly weird to be a compulsive reader. Tis a minor quirk. I've discussed this with others who feel equally compelled to read the ingredients of shampoo bottles or whatever is to hand. I've seen a shit stand up do a routine on it.


So you don't actually bring reading materials in with you when you go to pub bogs?


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## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> So you don't actually bring reading materials in with you when you go to pub bogs?


Of course not. I read the walls. Or my phone.


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Of course not. I read the walls. Or my phone.


The mobile phone provides a world of toilet-bound entertainment but... http://www.wirefresh.com/blokes-still-dropping-their-phones-down-the-toilet-en-masse/


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Of course not. I read the walls. Or my phone.


What if there's nothing at all anywhere to read, you don't have your phone and you've got the runs? Panic mode?


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> What if there's nothing at all anywhere to read, you don't have your phone and you've got the runs? Panic mode?


Always the labels on his undies....


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Always the labels on his undies....


Oh, maybe OU's one of those guys who get fully naked when sitting down for a shit.


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## Ax^ (Dec 5, 2012)

This thread does seem like a challenge to old graffers


*ponder if he's get banned*

If something like Ax^ appeared in the alberts bogs.


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Oh, maybe OU's one of those guys who get fully naked when sitting down for a shit.


Too much detail there, I think.


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> This thread does seem like a challenge to old graffers
> 
> 
> *ponder if he's get banned*
> ...


Just include an advert for urban75 underneath and you'll be fine.


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Too much detail there, I think.


It'd be a helluva lot easier reading the tags that way.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> What if there's nothing at all anywhere to read, you don't have your phone and you've got the runs? Panic mode?


Of course not. Just a few seconds of mind-numbing tedium or idle daydreaming, depending on my mood.


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## Ax^ (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Just include an advert for urban75 underneath and you'll be fine.



Cool I'll tell the landlord

"Ed  said it was cool"


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## TruXta (Dec 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Of course not. Just a few seconds of mind-numbing tedium or idle daydreaming, depending on my mood.


Just checking. Right, off to the GP.


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## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Just checking. Right, off to the GP.


Plenty of reading material there


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> You remember fun, don't you?


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 5, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> 25 Pages! An impressive bit of trollwork by editor, building traffic for his own site.


 
And at the same time providing free publicity for the newly gentrified Prince Albert, the pub which definitely doesn't have any of that horrible graffiti in the bogs like it used to


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2012)

discokermit said:


> tagging is the very essence of graffiti. i fucking love it.
> 
> (awaits some stupid twat saying "what if they tagged your car? or your mom?)


 
Surely they already have done?


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## Ax^ (Dec 5, 2012)

I'd just like to know upon discovering this news to begin with did these lines cross you mind

"Bloody kids these days, they don't have any respect"

"Bring back national service, that'll teach em"


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2012)

double post


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## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> I used to sell loos and have retained a head full of such useless information. P traps, S traps, close coupled, siphonic... why do I remember this when I can't remember things I want to remember?!



Like the graff in the Albert toilets, pre-refurb.


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## peterkro (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> I used to sell loos and have retained a head full of such useless information. P traps, S traps, close coupled, siphonic... why do I remember this when I can't remember things I want to remember?!


I'd say that it's a mains pressure toilet flush as common on ships and jails,used to be plumber  .


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## twentythreedom (Dec 5, 2012)

Is there an urban75 tag up in the Albert yet? I bet someone will...


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## RaverDrew (Dec 5, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> Is there an urban75 tag up in the Albert yet? I bet someone will...


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## Frances Lengel (Dec 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


>


 
Yeah but it should have three dots after it and then "Walks with a pronounced wiggle".


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> And at the same time providing free publicity for the newly gentrified Prince Albert, the pub which definitely doesn't have any of that horrible graffiti in the bogs like it used to


It's full of Lords and high flying city traders now. I heard demand for Bolly has risen so high, they're going to remove the beer pumps and just fit high powered ChampersHoses (TM). As for the loos, they've been annexed by the Royal Academy and are now showing off finely crafted oil paintings of local 'characters.'


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## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Yeah but it should have three dots after it and then "Walks with a pronounced wiggle".


Tell us about your glory hole fantasy again and why you thought it was a good idea to post it here.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Yes, I hear he's raking it in. I can only hope that one day too I will become Master Of The Internet.


 

If ever there was a title that should come in a box of Shreddies next to a decoder ring, its that one. Behold it is I, Master Of The Internet! etc


----------



## Frances Lengel (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Tell us about your glory hole fantasy again and why you thought it was a good idea to post it here.


 
Isn't it always a good idea to post glory hole fantasies?

*confused*


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> It's full of Lords and high flying city traders now. I heard demand for Bolly has risen so high, they're going to remove the beer pumps and just fit high powered ChampersHoses (TM). As for the loos, they've been annexed by the Royal Academy and are now showing off finely crafted oil paintings of local 'characters.'


yeh and you know where the lords and city traders will be aiming their wee willy winkies, don't you? all over the locals' boats.


----------



## editor (Dec 5, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Isn't it always a good idea to post glory hole fantasies?
> 
> *confused*


I think you're on the wrong site, sunshine.


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 5, 2012)

One minute you're Tagging walls the next you're sticking your cock through a hole in a cubicle. It's a gateway thing this tagging malarkey Still everyone's gotta start off somewhere


----------



## tendril (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> if you are going to flounce off a thread you might as well stay flounced, but if you're in fact going to engage with this thread you can start by answering the question i've put to you - what is your definition of graffiti? and i hope you don't post up some snobby nonsense about how graffiti's art and tagging isn't, because it's a load of auld balls.


I wonder what serious graffiti _artists_ would have to say about tagging?


----------



## tendril (Dec 5, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Isn't it always a good idea to post glory hole fantasies?
> 
> *confused*


but which side of the hole would you like to be?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

You must be a trusting person (or indeed thrusting) if you were performing the postman role


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

tendril said:


> I wonder what serious graffiti _artists_ would have to say about tagging?


i've often thought that the conjunction of artist with graffiti was in many cases akin to the conjunction of artist with piss.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i've often thought that the conjunction of artist with graffiti was in many cases akin to the conjunction of artist with piss.


What about con artists?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> What about con artists?


good point: many 'graffiti artists' have as much to do with art as 'con artists' do.


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 5, 2012)

Coulda bin much worse for the Albert


----------



## Frances Lengel (Dec 5, 2012)

tendril said:


> I wonder what serious graffiti _artists_ would have to say about tagging?


 
Lookk at Drax's flickr - Can't be arsed linking to it, but that man could write a book. Just put Drax WD into the flickr search engine - Even if you don't end up liking/agreeing with him, he's an entertaining read.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Dec 5, 2012)

editor said:


> I think you're on the wrong site, sunshine.


 
"Sunshine" lol - Tough is the man etc.


----------



## Onket (Dec 5, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Lookk at Drax's flickr - Can't be arsed linking to it, but that man could write a book. Just put Drax WD into the flickr search engine - Even if you don't end up liking/agreeing with him, he's an entertaining read.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/draxwd/


----------



## ska invita (Dec 5, 2012)

tendril said:


> I wonder what serious graffiti _artists_ would have to say about tagging?


curious post.  what do you expect them to say? 'Serious'  (as opposed to what?) graffiti artists shit tags same as all grafitti artists do. if they dont they're not grafitti artists.


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## ska invita (Dec 5, 2012)

Onket said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/draxwd/


is that our @krink on the house bombing session?
that @ thing doesnt work yet does it? oh well.


----------



## DJ Squelch (Dec 6, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Look at Drax's flickr - Can't be arsed linking to it, but that man could write a book.


 
Drax has written a book, with my mate Rob, we have been waiting years for them to release it.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Dec 6, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:


> Drax has written a book, with my mate Rob, we have been waiting years for them to release it.


 
Is that the London Handstyles book?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 6, 2012)

editor said:


> Yes, I hear he's raking it in. I can only hope that one day too I will become Master Of The Internet.


 
According to something I read on Amazon or somewhere, you already are one of the '40 most important people on the internet'.




> [the Editor] has been described by internet magazine as one of the 40 most important people on the Net.


 
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Slocombe, Mike/aid/4662412


----------



## Onket (Dec 6, 2012)

ska invita said:


> is that our @krink on the house bombing session?
> that @ thing doesnt work yet does it? oh well.



No idea, sorry.

I think the @ thing does work for usernames without a space. i.e. not for you


----------



## krink (Dec 6, 2012)

ska invita said:


> is that our @krink on the house bombing session?


 
my graff days are long in the past, met Drax once on a trip to London in the 90s. big scarey looking bloke but seemed canny enough to me.


----------



## krink (Dec 6, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:


> Drax has written a book, with my mate Rob, we have been waiting years for them to release it.


 
yeah I remember people talking about that ages ago. wasn't score meant to be doing one too? i've been out of the loop for a few years so I'm not exactly ITK these days!


----------



## teuchter (Dec 6, 2012)

Onket said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/draxwd/


 






I find this kind of stuff pretty tedious to be honest. Why do so many graffiti artists seem to get stuck forever in the kind of aesthetic that is based on technical skill rather than imagination or originality? And is subtlety not compatible with graffiti?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 6, 2012)

tendril said:


> I wonder what serious graffiti _artists_ would have to say about tagging?


 
The same sort of thing that the lighthearted ones do, most probably.


----------



## Onket (Dec 6, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I find this kind of stuff pretty tedious to be honest. Why do so many graffiti artists seem to get stuck forever in the kind of aesthetic that is based on technical skill rather than imagination or originality? And is subtlety not compatible with graffiti?



Agree that it's a bit 'samey'. Prefer the sort of stuff done in a rush at the dead of night, personally.

Or the perseverance of people like Tox.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 6, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Isn't it always a good idea to post glory hole fantasies?
> 
> *confused*


 There is a street called Glory Hole in Lincoln - true story


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 6, 2012)

Couldn't find that. But I could find one in the 'virgin' river, funnily enough. 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Glo...84027&oq=glory+hole&hnear=Glory+Hole&t=m&z=16


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 6, 2012)

There's a place in Exmouth, is that Lincoln?

http://www.gosur.com/map/?gclid=COOF1ICthrQCFcrItAod6ywAMQ


----------



## ska invita (Dec 6, 2012)

BORING1111111!!!

I dont understand why Rothko wouldnt just draw something ... two colours, yes we get it etc.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 6, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Why do so many graffiti artists seem to get stuck forever in the kind of aesthetic that is based on technical skill rather than imagination or originality? And is subtlety not compatible with graffiti?


TOY


----------



## marty21 (Dec 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Couldn't find that. But I could find one in the 'virgin' river, funnily enough.
> 
> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Glory Hole, United States&hl=en&sll=51.528642,-0.101599&sspn=0.695452,1.284027&oq=glory hole&hnear=Glory Hole&t=m&z=16








it is in the city centre !


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 6, 2012)

Lucy Fur said:


> "I Like to shit in my pants" on some fencing in S.Norwood &
> "My spunk tastes of smack" on a bog door.
> Yep, I found them two pretty amusing. Thats my tuppence for this thread.


There was one on a fence post in MK "I shagged yer mum", a few weeks alter someone added "up the arse right here and she loved it".


----------



## cuppa tee (Apr 19, 2013)

this was doing the rounds on facebook and i remembered this thread


----------



## salem (Apr 19, 2013)

That's brilliant


----------



## teuchter (Apr 19, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> this was doing the rounds on facebook and i remembered this thread


4. Faked photos


----------



## Crispy (Apr 19, 2013)

5. Smart arses


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2013)

6. Old beef that has potential to start again


wait, that should be on my things I like list.....


----------

