# Concrete Thrown Onto Cars From Motorway Bridges



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

What the fuck is this all about?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15998468

Do people do this for a laugh? What motivates someone to attempt to kill a completely innocent stranger?

Two attacks within half an hour, 8 miles apart, would suggest that if it was the same attacker they have transport, so it's probably not kids being dickheads.

A coordinated effort to kill or maim random members of the public?

Astonishing.


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Dec 5, 2011)

This is Essex. Full of nutters & devildogs.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

I get a cold shiver when I think of some of the stupid things that I did as a kid, including throwing bricks through bus windows and at a local pub off the top floor of the flats that I lived on, I always try and remember what a little cunt I was before condemning kids today, having said that your post does suggest that it may have been adults with the attacks being so far apart.


----------



## albionism (Dec 5, 2011)

in Australia, all motorway bridges have been enclosed
in "cages" because lobbing rocks etc reached epidemic
proportions. Here's me on my local bridge


----------



## marty21 (Dec 5, 2011)

I've driven down that road several times -


----------



## editor (Dec 5, 2011)

In my fantasy world, the rocks would bounce safely off the cars and smack straight back into the faces of these cowardly fucks, forcing them to wear clown sized nose bandages for the remainder of the year.

But in the real world, hopefully their smudgy fingerprints will be all over the rocks and a long spell at Her Maj's pleasure awaits.


----------



## zenie (Dec 5, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I get a cold shiver when I think of some of the stupid things that I did as a kid, including throwing bricks through bus windows and at a local pub off the top floor of the flats that I lived on, I always try and remember what a little cunt I was before condemning kids today, having said that your post does suggest that it may have been adults with the attacks being so far apart.



this ^^ We used to climb up the side of the motorway, never concrete blocks though!


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

zenie said:


> this ^^ We used to climb up the side of the motorway, never concrete blocks though!


We used to be able to get on top of the lifts, and control them once people were in them via a control panel, we used to jerk the lifts up and down and open and close the door in between floors, we then took to riding up and down on the counter balance weights that used to go in the opposite direction to the lift.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Deareg said:


> We used to be able to get on top of the lifts, and control them once people were in them via a control panel, we used to jerk the lifts up and down and open and close the door in between floors, we then took to riding up and down on the counter balance weights that used to go in the opposite direction to the lift.



What lifts?

We did some fucking stupid stuff as kids, usually involving fire or explosions, but we stopped short of lobbing rocks at cars or doing anything that was so obviously potentially fatal.

I don't think it's kids. Someone with mental health issues is more likely, imo.


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Do people do this for a laugh? What motivates someone to attempt to kill a completely innocent stranger?



Nihilism caused by our toxic mix of free-market economics and political correctness.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> What lifts?
> 
> We did some fucking stupid stuff as kids, usually involving fire or explosions, but we stopped short of lobbing rocks at cars or doing anything that was so obviously potentially fatal.


The lifts on the flats we lived on.

I wish that I could say the same, only by good fortune we never killed or seriously injured anyone, like I said I actually take cold shivers some times when thinking back.


----------



## zenie (Dec 5, 2011)

Deareg said:


> We used to be able to get on top of the lifts, and control them once people were in them via a control panel, we used to jerk the lifts up and down and open and close the door in between floors, we then took to riding up and down on the counter balance weights that used to go in the opposite direction to the lift.



That sounds like wicked fun to a 14 year old


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

zenie said:


> That sounds like wicked fun to a 14 year old



I'd do it now if I could.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 5, 2011)

I had something similar happen to me when I was driving. We, my dad and I, drove under a motorway bridge and smash, there was this massive explosion shattering and denting the windshield. I could not see but looking out the side windows managed to bring the car to a halt on the hard sholder. We then got out and gave chase to two shadowy figures that were on the bridge. We chased them across a field toward some houses but could not get close enough to catch either of them so we returned to examine the damage to the car. It had been a massive clod of earth that they had dropped from the bridge, luckily, because anything more solid and we might have been seriously injured. It was before the days of mobile phones so we smashed a large hole in the windshield to see through and drove to the next town where we reported it to the police.


----------



## Zabo (Dec 5, 2011)

Back in the days of the Miners' Strike.

"They hurled a 46lb concrete block and a concrete post weighing 65lbs from a bridge over the Head of the Valleys Rd at Rhymner. 

 It fell on the taxi and its driver was killed within seconds from head and chest injuries. The passenger, Mr Williams, was unhurt but deeply traumatised."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/16/newsid_2512000/2512469.stm


----------



## marty21 (Dec 5, 2011)

As a kid I did loads of stupid things - we played in a scrapyard, which had piles of cars (about 5 high) we'd climb up the cars and get in the top one  and on building sites which had no security at all in the 70s, we'd jump from 1st floor windows into the sand (not checking before how deep the sand was) we'd play in derelict buildings as well which were dangerous - I think a few of us fell through the floors downstairs (not me )


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Zabo said:


> Back in the days of the Miners' Strike.
> 
> "They hurled a 46lb concrete block and a concrete post weighing 65lbs from a bridge over the Head of the Valleys Rd at Rhymner.
> 
> ...



I seem to recall that their motivation was to prevent the cab taking Williams (who was scabbing) to the pit.

Cunts.


----------



## treelover (Dec 5, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I get a cold shiver when I think of some of the stupid things that I did as a kid, including throwing bricks through bus windows and at a local pub off the top floor of the flats that I lived on, I always try and remember what a little cunt I was before condemning kids today, having said that your post does suggest that it may have been adults with the attacks being so far apart.



yes, did the same, small stones from bridges, etc, once we made a gun out out of piping and ball bearings and fired it at a neighbours window, awful to think of the possible consequences now, hopefully most kids can just play games now to get the same effect...


----------



## treelover (Dec 5, 2011)

oh and we made real bows and arrows, there were some serious injuries, such as arrows going into other gang members faces..


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 5, 2011)

Zabo said:


> Back in the days of the Miners' Strike.
> 
> "They hurled a 46lb concrete block and a concrete post weighing 65lbs from a bridge over the Head of the Valleys Rd at Rhymner.
> 
> ...



Shouldn't have been a scab then should he.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Shouldn't have been a scab then should he.



No. That makes it alright.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 5, 2011)

Zabo said:


> Back in the days of the Miners' Strike.
> 
> "They hurled a 46lb concrete block and a concrete post weighing 65lbs from a bridge over the Head of the Valleys Rd at Rhymner.
> 
> ...



Good to see the cunts got life sentences. Hopefully they died inside.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Dec 5, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Shouldn't have been a scab then should he.



What a deeply idiotic thing to say.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

goldenecitrone said:


> Good to see the cunts got life sentences. Hopefully they died inside.



Unfortunately they were released in 1989. The murder convictions were reduced to manslaughter on appeal.


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Unfortunately they were released in 1989. The murder convictions were reduced to manslaughter on appeal.



You haver to take in in the context: two not very bright men at the ends of their tethers after being out on strike for the best part of a year. It isn't the same as kids doing it for kicks.


----------



## jakethesnake (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> I seem to recall that their motivation was to prevent the cab taking Williams (who was scabbing) to the pit.


Roger Waters wrote a whole album based on this (Radio KAOS, a good album, imo, which gives a bit of insight into why some one would do something so reckless)


----------



## Idaho (Dec 5, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> You haver to take in in the context: two not very bright men at the ends of their tethers after being out on strike for the best part of a year. It isn't the same as kids doing it for kicks.



The context was that they tried to kill or seriously injure two people. One whom they had a disagreement over a strike, the other who was just a taxi driver.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 5, 2011)

> Mr Wilkie leaves behind four children, the youngest of whom was born two months after his death.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> I seem to recall that *their motivation was to prevent the cab taking Williams (who was scabbing) to the pit.*
> 
> Cunts.


 
jobs a good 'un


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> The context was that they tried to kill or seriously injure two people. One whom they had a disagreement over a strike, the other who was just a taxi driver.


 
Yes, yes. I don't think it was a particularly good or wise thing to do, I'm just saying why I think it happened.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> You haver to take in in the context: two not very bright men at the ends of their tethers after being out on strike for the best part of a year. It isn't the same as kids doing it for kicks.



The reduction in the sentences to manslaughter was a politically motivated load of bollocks.

They committed murder by any legal definition of the offence and should still be in prison.


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The reduction in the sentences to manslaughter was a politically motivated load of bollocks.
> 
> They committed murder by any legal definition of the offence and should still be in prison.


 
Nothing to do with what I said.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The reduction in the sentences to manslaughter was a politically motivated load of bollocks.
> 
> They committed murder by any legal definition of the offence and should still be in prison.



Yeah they just decided to kill someone for a laugh, they weren't just two young rightfully angry young men who made a grave mistake in not thinking through the consequences of their actions. I doubt they planned to actually murder anyone.


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 5, 2011)

I don't think it was a clever thing to do. If anything it was counter productive for the miners.

But if the taxi driver hadn't been a scab then he wouldn't have died. Scab occupational hazard if you will. I've heard that all the other taxi drivers were refusing to drive scabs so he was picking up all the scab driving work is that true?


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> .... angry young men who made a grave mistake in not thinking through the consequences of their actions. I doubt they planned to actually murder anyone.



The lack of intent to kill doesn't mean they didn't commit murder. The fact that didn't think through the consequences of their actions (or were reckless as to whether they'd result in death) means they _did_.

Pitching a paving slab into a car from a bridge and killing the driver is murder, however you look at it.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 5, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I don't think it was a clever thing to do. If anything it was counter productive for the miners.
> 
> But if the taxi driver hadn't been a scab then he wouldn't have died. Scab occupational hazard if you will. I've heard that all the other taxi drivers were refusing to drive scabs so he was picking up all the scab driving work is that true?


You seem to be having some issues with your moral compass.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The lack of intent to kill doesn't mean they didn't commit murder.



In the most precise sense it does.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The lack of intent to kill doesn't mean they didn't commit murder.



I thought by definition it did? It is the difference between murder and manslaughter?


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The lack of intent to kill doesn't mean they didn't commit murder. The fact that didn't think through the consequences of their actions (or were reckless as to whether they'd result in death) means they _did_.
> 
> Pitching a paving slab into a car from a bridge and killing the driver is murder, however you look at it.



the lack of intent is what distinguishes man slaughter from murder you cretin.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 5, 2011)

No intent to kill is required to be murder. Only intent to cause serious harm.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> the lack of intent is what distinguishes man slaughter from murder you cretin.



Wrong. Moron.




			
				Bahnhoff Strasse said:
			
		

> No intent to kill is required to be murder. Only intent to cause serious harm.



Right.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> the lack of intent is what distinguishes man slaughter from murder you cretin.



I hope for your sake you never find yourself in a police interview being asked if you meant to cause serious harm. "Yeah I meant to seriously hurt him, but didn't intend to kill him." You've just got lifed off.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Wrong. Moron.



I'll think you'll find you're wrong.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I hope for your sake you never find yourself in a police interview being asked if you meant to cause serious harm. "Yeah I meant to seriously hurt him, but didn't intend to kill him." You've just got lifed off.



you can still get off on voluntary manslaughter if you intended to seriously harm but not murder, also if there were exceptional circumstances like the miners strike it would also help the case for manslaughter.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

The defendants in Hancock and Shankland claimed they did not intend to cause serious physical harm to the anybody in the convoy, they said that their aim was to prevent the taxi from being able to take the scabbing miner in to work.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> you can still get off on voluntary manslaughter if you intended to seriously harm but not murder, also if there were exceptional circumstances like the miners strike it would also help the case for manslaughter.



The miners strike is not sufficient for voluntary manslaughter.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The defendants in Hancock and Shankland claimed they did not intend to cause serious physical harm to the anybody in the convoy, they said that their aim was to prevent the taxi from being able to take the scabbing miner in to work.



yes but even if they did aim to cause serious harm it could still be classed as voluntary manslaughter, which spymaster and co seem to be overlooking.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The defendants in Hancock and Shankland claimed they did not intend to cause serious physical harm to the anybody in the convoy, they said that their aim was to prevent the taxi from being able to take the scabbing miner in to work.



They can claim what they like, if you commit a criminal act that a sober mind would consider to carry a risk of serious injury, then it's murder.


----------



## agricola (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> Yeah they just decided to kill someone for a laugh, they weren't just two young rightfully angry young men who made a grave mistake in not thinking through the consequences of their actions. I doubt they planned to actually murder anyone.



Bollocks - they dragged two twenty-kilo plus concrete blocks onto a bridge, ignored the advice of a third person present not to do it, and then dropped them on a specific vehicle driving underneath.  The argument that they did all that just to scare the person inside would be laughable, if of course it hadnt resulted in them getting off a murder conviction.


----------



## agricola (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> yes but even if they did aim to cause serious harm it could still be classed as voluntary manslaughter, which spymaster and co seem to be overlooking.



If you kill someone having intended to seriously injure them, its murder.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I thought by definition it did? It is the difference between murder and manslaughter?



As Bahnhoff points out the intention only has to be to cause grievous bodily harm, or that ones actions constituted a "reckless indifference" to a high risk to human life.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The miners strike is not sufficient for voluntary manslaughter.



it doesn't even have to be, it can be voluntary manslaughter simply on the basis of aiming to seriously harm but not kill, the miners strike and the climate around it could very well count as an prolonged special circumstance leading to two people doing something out of character, though that is clearly a matter of contention.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> yes but even if they did aim to cause serious harm it could still be classed as voluntary manslaughter, which spymaster and co seem to be overlooking.



I guess they could've claimed they were provoked or suffering from diminished responsibility at the time, but I'm not sure whether the jury would've bought that.


----------



## agricola (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> it doesn't even have to be, it can be voluntary manslaughter simply on the basis of aiming to seriously harm but not kill, the miners strike and the climate around it could very well count as an prolonged special circumstance leading to two people doing something out of character, though that is clearly a matter of contention.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> it doesn't even have to be, it can be voluntary manslaughter simply on the basis of aiming to seriously harm but not kill, the miners strike and the climate around it could very well count as an prolonged special circumstance leading to two people doing something out of character, though that is clearly a matter of contention.



I think you need to read up on grounds for voluntary manslaughter.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> it doesn't even have to be, it can be voluntary manslaughter simply on the basis of aiming to seriously harm but not kill, the miners strike and the climate around it could very well count as an prolonged special circumstance leading to two people doing something out of character, though that is clearly a matter of contention.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They can claim what they like, if you commit a criminal act that a sober mind would consider to carry a risk of serious injury, then it's murder.



Incorrect - realisation of risk of harm is not the same as intending that harm. You need intention for a charge of murder. Mere recklessness is not enough.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

agricola said:


> If you kill someone having intended to seriously injure them, its murder.


for the last fucking time, you can face voluntary manslaughter if you kill someone but with the intent of only doing serious bodily harm.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

shock horror, cop thinks he knows more about the law than he actually does.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I think you need to read up on grounds for voluntary manslaughter.



And murder.


----------



## agricola (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Incorrect - realisation of risk of harm is not the same as intending that harm. You need intention for a charge of murder. Mere recklessness is not enough.



Which is true, and how they got off in this case (despite it being somewhat absurd).


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> for the last fucking time, you can face voluntary manslaughter if you kill someone but with the intent of only doing serious bodily harm.



Sorry mate, but you're wrong on this one.


----------



## agricola (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> shock horror, cop thinks he knows more about the law than he actually does.






			
				CPS said:
			
		

> For the principal defendant, (see later for Joint Enterprise) the intent for murder is the intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH), nothing less. Foresight is no more than evidence from which the jury may draw the inference of intent, c.f. _R v Woollin_ [1999] 1 Cr App R 8 (HOL).



http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder_and_manslaughter/#intent

Now please stop making this nonsensical point of yours.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Dec 5, 2011)

Growing up in South Wales, I recall the day of that murder very well. I think it was a bit of a turning point in public perceptions too. Not a fair reflection of the strikers, but not incomparable to the effect "grannydiggers" had on the AR movement.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

agricola said:


> http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder_and_manslaughter/#intent
> 
> Now please stop making this nonsensical point of yours.



poor logic, because intent to cause serious injury is included in the charge for murder doesn't mean you can't face voluntary manslaughter even with intent to cause serious injury


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Incorrect - realisation of risk of harm is not the same as intending that harm. You need intention for a charge of murder. Mere recklessness is not enough.



The recklessness satisfies the _mens rea_ element for murder though doesn't it.



> *"Malice" – *As the term has developed, a person kills another acts with the requisite "malice" if he possesses any one of four states of mind:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Lobbing a paving slab at a car certainly constitutes (3) above, if not all 4.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The recklessness satisfies the _mens rea_ element for murder though doesn't it.
> 
> Lobbing a paving slab at a car certainly constitutes (3) above, if not all 4.



where did you get that list, cos 4) seems odd, someone dying of a heart attack because you break into their house or try and rob them etc doesn't equal murder.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 5, 2011)

editor said:


> In my fantasy world, the rocks would bounce safely off the cars and smack straight back into the faces of these cowardly fucks, forcing them to wear clown sized nose bandages for the remainder of the year.
> 
> But in the real world, hopefully their smudgy fingerprints will be all over the rocks and a long spell at Her Maj's pleasure awaits.


still one less car eh...

by any means necessary those car driving cunts...


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> poor logic, because intent to cause serious injury is included in the charge for murder doesn't mean you can't face voluntary manslaughter even with intent to cause serious injury



A murder charge can be reduced to voluntary manslaughter if one of three defences is successful: "abnormality of mind", "diminished responsibilty", and "loss of control".

None of which apply to a couple of cunts who throw paving slabs at cars, imo.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The recklessness satisfies the _mens rea_ element for murder though doesn't it.



Only the most _extreme_ form of recklessness - appreciation that death or serious injury is a virtually certain outcome of your actions - can be an _evidential_ basis for intention for the purposes of murder. Simply knowing that something is a risk or a probable, or even highly likely, outcome of your actions will not do.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 5, 2011)

I don't care about the semantics my guess is that come the trial if they get someone they want to be given a life sentence...


----------



## discokermit (Dec 5, 2011)

scabbing should be a capital offense anyway. and driving scabs.

the appropriate punishment for killing one should be a light ticking off. or maybe a disappointed face and a sigh.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Only the most _extreme_ form of recklessness - appreciation that death or serious injury is a virtually certain outcome of your actions - can be an _evidential_ basis for intention for the purposes of murder.



Bingo. And hoying a 40kg lump of concrete from a bridge, through the windscreen of a moving car, satisfies that overwhelmingly.


----------



## agricola (Dec 5, 2011)

revol68 said:


> poor logic, because intent to cause serious injury is included in the charge for murder doesn't mean you can't face voluntary manslaughter even with intent to cause serious injury



If you kill someone, having intended to do that person / someone else serious harm (ie: GBH), then the correct charge for that crime is murder.  You would not (or rather should not) be found guilty of manslaughter instead if those are the facts of the case.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

If they got it reduced to manslaughter then the judge must have accepted that they did not intend to kill or cause serious injury.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Bingo. I'd say that hoying a 40kg lump of concrete from a bridge, through the windscreen of a moving car, satisfies that and then some.



It doesn't matter what you say. They said that their plan was to drop the concrete in the middle lane of the carriageway while the convey was in the nearside lane with the aim of frightening the miner and preventing him from getting to work. If that was the truth then they are not guilty of murder.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

agricola said:


> If you kill someone, having intended to do that person / someone else serious harm (ie: GBH), then the correct charge for that crime is murder. You would not (or rather should not) be found guilty of manslaughter instead if those are the facts of the case.



But there are a number of partial defences that can reduce the charge to voluntary manslaughter.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 5, 2011)

Don't know whether anyone has made this point and I don't want to comment on the miner's strike incident (I think I might lose the will to live if I read the whole thread) but it seems to me that lobbing stuff off bridges is really just a very dangerous form of playing Pooh-sticks. It's something almost invariably done by kids who really do not understand, let alone think of, the consequences.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 5, 2011)

Does anybody know what the boards' policy is on incitement to violence and murder?


----------



## agricola (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> It doesn't matter what you say. They said that their plan was to drop the concrete in the middle lane of the carriageway while the convey was in the nearside lane with the aim of frightening the miner and preventing him from getting to work. If that was the truth then they are not guilty of murder.



Well yes, but if (to use another cause celebre) Tony Martin had shot Barras in a genuine case of self-defence then he wouldnt have been guilty of murder either.




			
				Deareg said:
			
		

> If they got it reduced to manslaughter then the judge must have accepted that they did not intend to kill or cause serious injury



Nope, the judge found that there had been a misdirection - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Hancock


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Does anybody know what the boards' policy is on incitement to violence and murder?


It is compulsory during bun fights.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> But there are a number of partial defences that can reduce the charge to voluntary manslaughter.



Three. None of which applied here, as mentioned above (post 69). Unless I'm missing any?


----------



## agricola (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> But there are a number of partial defences that can reduce the charge to voluntary manslaughter.



There are, but IMHO its best not to overcomplicate things for revol yet given his contributions thus far.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Three. As mentioned above (post 69). Unless I'm missing any?



Just two now actually: loss of self control and diminished responsibility. Provocation was done away with a couple of years ago.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

agricola said:


> Well yes, but if (to use another cause celebre) Tony Martin had shot Barras in a genuine case of self-defence then he wouldnt have been guilty of murder either.



TM had his charge reduced to manslaughter in the end aswell actually. Correctly imo.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> They said that their plan was to drop the concrete in the middle lane of the carriageway while the convey was in the nearside lane with the aim of frightening the miner and preventing him from getting to work. If that was the truth then they are not guilty of murder.



But it wasn't. That defence failed and they were convicted of murder.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> But it wasn't. That defence failed and they were convicted of murder.



Only after a misdirection from the judge that was subsequently overruled.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Only after a misdirection from the judge that was subsequently overruled.



Well the bit that he missed out from Maloney was that:



> the probability of the consequence taken to have been foreseen must be little short of overwhelming before it will suffice to establish the necessary intent



I think most people would agree that lobbing concrete slabs off bridges at cars is "overwhelmingly likely" to result in death or serious injury.

Of course this is all moot since we'll never know how the jury would have found without that omission, but I have little doubt that Hancock and Shankland got away with murder.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Shouldn't have been a scab then should he.



He might have deserved a kicking and/or to get sent to Coventry, but he didn't deserve to die.

IIRC, this incident showed Kim Howells up for the careerist pole-climbing establishment arse-licker he really was.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 5, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Don't know whether anyone has made this point and I don't want to comment on the miner's strike incident (I think I might lose the will to live if I read the whole thread) but it seems to me that lobbing stuff off bridges is really just a very dangerous form of playing Pooh-sticks. It's something almost invariably done by kids who really do not understand, let alone think of, the consequences.



It amazes me how much stuff we get chucked at us when driving the narrowboat, just like my neighbour said, drive your narrowboat to Hackney and someone will chuck stuff at you, do the same journey down the towpath on a pushbike and nothing will happen. You're a floating novelty moving target for some reason.

We've had hmmm, lets see. A doughnut and a coffee chucked at my head from the road bridge when ascending Hawley Lock in Camden (that hurt quite a bit) . A five foot wide metal road sign near one of the estates in Camden dropped from a great height onto our heads (thank fuck it missed), bricks up on the Rochdale canal (one being held up by a two year old who wasn't strong enough to chuck it) and the worst was a large stone, chucked at El Jugs when we was helming a community boat (full of school kids), it hit him in the face, chipped a tooth and bust his lip. He has also been pissed on from road bridges. Which was nice. Oh and also a moored boat was attacked by kids and had every window kicked in, when it was full of sleeping teenagers. Not at all nice as they were showered with broken glass.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 5, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> It's something almost invariably done by kids who really do not understand, let alone think of, the consequences.



This wasn't done by kids throwing random stones. Someone with a vehicle stole concrete lumps from someone's garden and then drove to two different bridges to deposit them on cars.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 5, 2011)

It does seem like some sick fuck at work, not 'yobs' as the papers seem to assume.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 5, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> It does seem like some sick fuck at work, not 'yobs' as the papers seem to assume.


 
That's how I'm reading it too.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 5, 2011)

i think the stupidest thing we used to do was about 9 of us would link hands and the one on the end would stick his/her finger in the socket of one of the village christmas tree bulbs , giving us all an electric shock . Everybody had to take turns at being the fuse , so to speak .

As for little cunts throwing concrete off bridges - if caught by the public they should be thrown off the bridges , regardless of age or gender .


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

Casually Red said:


> i think the stupidest thing we used to do was about 9 of us would link hands and the one on the end would stick his/her finger in the socket of one of the village christmas tree bulbs , giving us all an electric shock . Everybody had to take turns at being the fuse , so to speak .



We used to do that with an the old wireless sets, we would take one of the nobs off, all hold hands and then someone would touch the metal sticking out with a knife or fork.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 5, 2011)

this has happened more than thirty times in the last three years in that area on the same road!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 5, 2011)

discokermit said:


> this has happened more than thirty times in the last three years in that area on the same road!


kinda makes a mockery of those saying it was kids...

it's clearly some one who's stopped their meds...


----------



## Pinette (Dec 5, 2011)

discokermit said:


> this has happened more than thirty times in the last three years in that area on the same road!


Bloody hell! I hope the police find the bastard/s and quick. Maybe there should now be warning signs in place. 'CAUTION - YOU ARE NOW APPROACHING A DANGER AREA'  Would it be sensible to advise motorists to slow down or to speed up?


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 5, 2011)

it would be more sensible to conceal snipers near motorway bridges . The filth have every right to shoot these type of cunts trying to commit murder against ordinary working people for kicks.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 5, 2011)

or rather more practically till the nut job is found put a psco on each bridge.
 although they probably arn't allowed to stop nutters dropping concrete on people


----------



## Fedayn (Dec 5, 2011)

likesfish said:


> or rather more practically till the nut job is found put a psco on each bridge.
> although they probably arn't allowed to stop nutters dropping concrete on people



Aaah, they can throw the PSCO off the bridge instead?


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Aaah, they can throw the PSCO off the bridge instead?



The fat fuckers would damage the road.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 5, 2011)

discokermit said:


> scabbing should be a capital offense anyway. and driving scabs.
> 
> the appropriate punishment for killing one should be a light ticking off. or maybe a disappointed face and a sigh.


Presumably that's only before the glorious revolution? Afterwards any protesting will be naturally be treason.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Presumably that's only before the glorious revolution? Afterwards any protesting will be naturally be treason.


People will not have anything to protest about after the revolution, so yours is a moot point.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Moot.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Moot.


Thats's what I said, go and check.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)




----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


>



Mute.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

One of you make your fucking mind up.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

GC is dumb.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> GC is dumb.



Pardon?


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 5, 2011)

Mute=dumb.


----------



## Fedayn (Dec 5, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The fat fuckers would damage the road.



Good for the economy as it will provide jobs for road gangs.... Win win all round.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Presumably that's only before the glorious revolution? Afterwards any protesting will be naturally be treason.


and we will shoot them like partridges.


----------



## punchdrunkme (Dec 6, 2011)

I


albionism said:


> in Australia, all motorway bridges have been enclosed
> in "cages" because lobbing rocks etc reached epidemic
> proportions. Here's me on my local bridge
> 
> View attachment 15161



Really like that photo.


----------



## albionism (Dec 6, 2011)

ty


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 6, 2011)

Catch the fuckers and deport them to Australia,


----------



## punchdrunkme (Dec 6, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> I'd do it now if I could.



Me too


----------



## silverfish (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> scabbing should be a capital offense anyway. and driving scabs.
> 
> the appropriate punishment for killing one should be a light ticking off. or maybe a disappointed face and a sigh.



The other pro scab  killers at least framed their arguements in some pseudo legal bolloks, you sound like a fucking schoolchild  chopsing off once the adults have all had their say.


----------



## Detroit City (Dec 6, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> What the fuck is this all about?
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15998468
> 
> ...


happens here all the time...mostly kids who don't know what they are doing


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 6, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Mute=dumb.



Pardon=deaf.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 6, 2011)

goldenecitrone said:


> Pardon=deaf.



Ah, ok. Thought you were taking offence.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

silverfish said:


> The other pro scab killers at least framed their arguements in some pseudo legal bolloks, you sound like a fucking schoolchild chopsing off once the adults have all had their say.


ah fuck off. scabs are scum, they deserve everything they get.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> ah fuck off. scabs are scum, they deserve everything they get.


not if you take out innocents as a result...


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> ah fuck off. scabs are scum, they deserve everything they get.



Murder, rape, torture, anything goes to get a 5% pay rise.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> ah fuck off. scabs are scum, they deserve everything they get.


tbf what they get is precisely the same as the unionised members, that's maggies fault really...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> ah fuck off. scabs are scum, they deserve everything they get.



Do you seriously think that muder is an acceptable response to someone who has differing political views to you?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Do you seriously think that muder is an acceptable response to someone who has differing political views to you?


all fascists do...


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> not if you take out innocents as a result...


the taxi driver wasn't innocent.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Do you seriously think that *muder* is an acceptable response to someone who has differing political views to you?



Hello, muddah, hello fadah...


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Do you seriously think that muder is an acceptable response to someone who has differing political views to you?


no. i don't care what a scabs politics are, what i care about is they have carried out the act of scabbing, an act of utter treason towards your workmates, an act that in certain situations can have very grave and widespread consequences, destruction of whole communities and sometimes death or torture for some people.

i don't think individual acts of murder are appropriate and are usually counterproductive. i don't shed a tear for murdered scabs but i do believe it's the wrong way to go about it. if i were a picket during the miners strike, i would have agitated for the pickets going to the scabs house in the night, dragging him from his bed and tar and feather him. i think that would be appropriate. in a less serious situation, something less serious is more appropriate (sending to coventry). in a more serious situation, lynching/necklacing is more appropriate.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 6, 2011)

This guy was a cabbie, the miners wern't his workmates.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> This guy was a cabbie, the miners wern't his workmates.


what was the cabbie doing? driving a scab across the picket line.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> what was the cabbie doing? driving a scab across the picket line.



So murdering him is acceptable in your world?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2011)

Interesting thread thrown off kilter by extremist's murderous intent.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> So murdering him is acceptable in your world?


no. trial and execution would be more acceptable. didn't you read my post?


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> no. trial and execution would be more acceptable. didn't you read my post?



You remind me of those animal rights nutters


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> You remind me of those animal rights nutters


it's a fucking war mate. if you accept your enslavement without any fight, that's up to you but don't call me a nutter because i know who the enemy is.

read your history and see the effects of strikebreaking around the world at various critical times. anybody who scabbed on the miners strike was a grade a cunt. any taxi driver who took him knew exactly what he was doing and what the effects of his actions would be. every pit closure was partly their responsibility. every heroin overdose and suicide in a redundant pit village since has been partly their responsibility. the destruction of an industry for political reasons was partly their responsibility.

fuck 'em. they're scum.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> it's a fucking war mate. if you accept your enslavement without any fight, that's up to you but don't call me a nutter because i know who the enemy is.
> 
> read your history and see the effects of strikebreaking around the world at various critical times. anybody who scabbed on the miners strike was a grade a cunt. any taxi driver who took him knew exactly what he was doing and what the effects of his actions would be. every pit closure was partly their responsibility. every heroin overdose and suicide in a redundant pit village since has been partly their responsibility. the destruction of an industry for political reasons was partly their responsibility.
> 
> fuck 'em. they're scum.



And that makes you judge, jury & executioner? I would never cross the line myself but condone murder/execution for those that do? Scary.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

I don't agree with throwing concrete blocks off bridges at scabs. ice is much better than concrete for a number of reasons.

Firstly it's denser than concrete, which is full of tiny air holes, and it's easier to obtain. Secondly, unlike conrete, ice will melt into water, leaving no traces of fingerprints and DNA, making it absolutely essential for the modern scab-buster facing advanced police technology.

*(In case Lisa Ansell is watching I don't actually advocate murdering scabs. But i won't miss 'em if they die.)


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> no. i don't care what a scabs politics are, what i care about is they have carried out the act of scabbing, an act of utter treason towards your workmates, an act that in certain situations can have very grave and widespread consequences, destruction of whole communities and sometimes death or torture for some people.quote]



Who has been killed/tortured as a result of scabbing?


----------



## Zabo (Dec 6, 2011)

If killing somebody for breaking a strike is seen as 'legitimate' I dread to think what punishment would be meted out to somebody who had committed a murder!


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> no. i don't care what a scabs politics are, what i care about is they have carried out the act of scabbing, an act of utter treason towards your workmates, an act that in certain situations can have very grave and widespread consequences, destruction of whole communities and sometimes death or torture for some people.
> 
> i don't think individual acts of murder are appropriate and are usually counterproductive. i don't shed a tear for murdered scabs but i do believe it's the wrong way to go about it. if i were a picket during the miners strike, i would have agitated for the pickets going to the scabs house in the night, dragging him from his bed and tar and feather him. i think that would be appropriate. in a less serious situation, something less serious is more appropriate (sending to coventry). in a more serious situation, lynching/necklacing is more appropriate.



Where I live scabs were just systematically excluded from the community they betrayed, that's the best way. Their kids would have no mates at school if word got out their dad was a scab. They couldn't get served in the chippy, the pub, the shops, nowhere. Lollipop ladies refused to cross the roads for them.

Thats the appropriate response to scabbing. If you betray your community and your class, then you should expect no further friendship or warmth from the community or from your class.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Who has been killed/tortured as a result of scabbing?


various militants throughout history have once strikes have been defeated. it's not like here all over the world you know, in some places the stakes are massively higher.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> various militants throughout history have once strikes have been defeated. it's not like here all over the world you know, in some places the stakes are massively higher.



Which various militants through history have been killed because of scabbing?


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> And that makes you judge, jury & executioner? I would never cross the line myself but condone murder/execution for those that do? Scary.


how does what i said make me "judge jury and executioner"? i'm for _collective_ action. i couldn't have made it any clearer, to be honest. have you got some sort of comprehension problem?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> various militants throughout history have once strikes have been defeated. it's not like here all over the world you know, in some places the stakes are massively higher.


Indeed they are, which is why mentioning it in a UK context is a bit odd.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Which various militants through history have been killed because of scabbing?


'ang on, i'll get me book out...


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> Indeed they are, which is why mentioning it in a UK context is a bit odd.


class struggle is international. your thoughts are so narrow, jer.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> how does what i said make me "judge jury and executioner"? i'm for _collective_ action. i couldn't have made it any clearer, to be honest. have you got some sort of comprehension problem?


Not at all, it's just that you called for a trial & execution a few posts back. I'm just not certain whether you're a harmless comedian playing to the crowd or a genuine extremist.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> class struggle is international. your thoughts are so narrow, jer.


Ah, once again mayhem and murder all boils down to class. Who's being narrow minded, now?

You mentioned torture & killing, I'm well aware of this. Well known brand of trainers reputation in less developed countries is appaling and that's why I don't buy their products. Same goes for petroleum giant in Nigeria but I digress.

Where is the torture and killing here?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> 'ang on, i'll get me book out...



Or you could just calm down and accept that the approach Delroy Booth outlines above (and which you like) is one that would have some reasonance in a real world situation.


----------



## Zabo (Dec 6, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Their kids would have no mates at school if word got out their dad was a scab. They couldn't get served in the chippy, the pub, the shops, nowhere. Lollipop ladies refused to cross the roads for them.



Wonderful! Curse and castigate the children for the ills of their father.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

Yup. That kid gets fed by wages earned by a scab father, the food that went into that kid's mouth was robbed from the mouths of the other kids who went hungry. It's not nice, but that's what happens when you betray your community, so dont do it.

I know three old fellas who meet up every year in the club near me, all in their 80's, who meet up for a drink every year to celebrate the anniversary of a scabs death.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Yup. That kid gets fed by wages earned by a scab father, the food that went into that kid's mouth was robbed from the mouths of the other kids who went hungry. It's not nice, but that's what happens when you betray your community, so dont do it.
> 
> I know three old fellas who meet up every year in the club near me, all in their 80's, who meet up for a drink every year to celebrate the anniversary of a scabs death.



So, it's the acceptable community sanctioned face of child abuse. Such bitterness and hatred.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Or you could just calm down and accept that the approach Delroy Booth outlines above (and which you like) is one that would have some reasonance in a real world situation.


oh it does resonate.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

Nice, well done for cheapening the phrase Child Abuse to fit into your argument.

Bitterness and hatred? You don't know the half of it. People died coz of those fucking scabs y'know, where's your sympathy for them and their kids? I knew people who lost their jobs in the 80's, never worked again, became alcoholics, lost their wives and kids, and totally gave up on life.

And to be honest, I'm overstating the extent to which people's kids were isolated, although it definitely happened. Everyone knew at my school who's parents were scabs and who weren't, I remember that a kids birthday party I went to as a kid everyone in my class of 30 went, except one kid, who's dad was a scab, and the parents just wouldn't let the kid and his parents into their home. Harsh, I know, but this is what happens when you betray your community.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 6, 2011)

Surely strikers should be convincing these people not to be scabs in the first place. Once they start resorting to "community punishments" the battle is already lost.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Harsh, I know, but this is what happens when you betray your community.


they know this yet still put their own narrow short term self interest first. that's what massive cunts they are.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Nice, well done for cheapening the phrase Child Abuse to fit into your argument.
> 
> Bitterness and hatred? You don't know the half of it. People died coz of those fucking scabs y'know, where's your sympathy for them and their kids? I knew people who lost their jobs in the 80's, never worked again, became alcoholics, lost their wives and kids, and totally gave up on life.
> 
> And to be honest, I'm overstating the extent to which people's kids were isolated, although it definitely happened. Everyone knew at my school who's parents were scabs and who weren't, I remember that a kids birthday party I went to as a kid everyone in my class of 30 went, except one kid, who's dad was a scab, and the parents just wouldn't let the kid and his parents into their home. Harsh, I know, but this is what happens when you betray your community.



I have sympathy for those who lost their livelyhoods & gave up - who wouldn't? As I said plenty of times before, I'd never cross the picket line & always vote for strike action. But I wouldn't advocate violence towards the strike breakers & certainly not take it out on the unfortunate kids.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> Surely strikers should be convincing these people not to be scabs in the first place. Once they start resorting to "community punishments" the battle is already lost.



Obviously! But what do you once they've scabbed? What do you do the day after the strike? Just pretend like nothing's happened and carry on being mates? Just let them off the hook? Of course that's not going to happen, the moment you cross that picket line you're saying goodbye to that community, you're effectively saying "fuck you lot, I want my scab pay, you can rot in hell" to them AND their kids and partners etc, so in that context I think isolation is actually pretty fucking measured response, certainly moreso than trying to kill them, but the anger that makes people want to kill is still there.

You might not like, it might hurt your sensibilities, but that being isolated from a community like that is the spontaneous response that many working-class areas have to scabbing, and its one that I think is totally understandable. I wouldn't have any dealings with a scab in my private life, and neither would most of the people I know. It's not like an organized conspiracy of silence, this is just what happens when you do something so heinous that the majority of people you live and work with can't even stand to speak to you any more.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> the taxi driver wasn't innocent.


ok then neither are you by this standard you capitalist supporting scum bag...

don't believe me? do you have any products within your domicile which haven't been made by you... you do don't you?

enjoy alchol, food, water, electricity... scab supporting scum bag...

use the post service, rail service, bus services... fuckign strike breaking cunt...

you support tactically scabbing by default... In fact judging by your standards is fucking ingrained...

don't make the argument it's impossible not to in the capitalist world... you are a scab supporting scum bag and so be a good fella and hang yourself else be labeled a hypocrite...


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> I have sympathy for those who lost their livelyhoods & gave up - who wouldn't? As I said plenty of times before, I'd never cross the picket line & always vote for strike action. But I wouldn't advocate violence towards the strike breakers & certainly not take it out on the unfortunate kids.



Neither would I, I don't advocate violence, and as for the kids things, its a little bit more subtle than perhaps I made out, just fragmented memories from my childhood, kids didn't need telling about the strike y'know, they didn't need to be encouraged or prompted to fall out with their mates if their parents were scabbing.

This is why I hate scabbing, it destroys families and communities, as well as undermines the workers who are actually striking. It's an awful thing.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 6, 2011)

I was against the violence during the strike, but if I had known back then just how hard and how permanent the damage the pit closures were going to cause the mining communities I would not have given a fuck if the strikers had machine gunned the scabs and the coppers who daily beat the fuck out of striking miners.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 6, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> I know three old fellas who meet up every year in the club near me, all in their 80's, who meet up for a drink every year to celebrate the anniversary of a scabs death.



Sad old cunts.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 6, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Obviously! But what do you once they've scabbed? What do you do the day after the strike? Just pretend like nothing's happened and carry on being mates? Just let them off the hook? Of course that's not going to happen, the moment you cross that picket line you're saying goodbye to that community, you're effectively saying "fuck you lot, I want my scab pay, you can rot in hell" to them AND their kids and partners etc, so in that context I think isolation is actually pretty fucking measured response, certainly moreso than trying to kill them, but the anger that makes people want to kill is still there.
> 
> You might not like, it might hurt your sensibilities, but that being isolated from a community like that is the spontaneous response that many working-class areas have to scabbing, and its one that I think is totally understandable. I wouldn't have any dealings with a scab in my private life, and neither would most of the people I know. It's not like an organized conspiracy of silence, this is just what happens when you do something so heinous that the majority of people you live and work with can't even stand to speak to you any more.



I never said I had a problem with isolation. I do have a problem with lynching, encasing in burning tyres, and dropping concrete blocks on their heads. No amount of scabbing justifies those responses, and people like discokermit who advocate those things are nutters who need isolating from their communities.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> ok then neither are you by this standard you capitalist supporting scum bag...
> 
> don't believe me? do you have any products within your domicile which haven't been made by you... you do don't you?
> 
> ...


and i wear shoes!

you deranged cunt.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> and i wear shoes!
> 
> you deranged cunt.


fuck off scab kill yourself you're not innocent you support the capitalist system with your actions you scab cunt...


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> people like discokermit who advocate those things are nutters who need isolating from their communities.


and yet i'm very popular. ironic, eh?


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> fuck off scab kill yourself you're not innocent you support the capitalist system with your actions you scab cunt...


weirdo.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> weirdo.


scab scum... kill yourself...

really you're not innocent by your own rules... kill yourself...

or admit your position is untenable and retract your moronic statement...


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> scab scum... kill yourself...
> 
> really you're not innocent by your own rules... kill yourself...
> 
> or admit your position is untenable and retract your moronic statement...


freak.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> scab scum... kill yourself...
> 
> really you're not innocent by your own rules... kill yourself...
> 
> or admit your position is untenable and retract your moronic statement...


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> and yet i'm very popular. ironic, eh?



Harold Shipman was very popular


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> freak.


yes you are... you are calling for taxi drivers to be killed for driving people to work ... you are indeed a freak...


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes you are... you are calling for taxi drivers to be killed for driving people to work ... you are indeed a freak...


if only the tommies had thought of getting a belgian taxi accross no mans land, eh?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> Harold Shipman was very popular


No - he was reviled for his crimes.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> Harold Shipman was very popular


have you got a point you're trying to make?


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 6, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> No - he was reviled for his crimes.



He was popular before his crimes were revealed. Let's see how popular discokermit is when he's 'necklaced' a few scabbing medical secretaries.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Sad old cunts.



Feel free to suck my piles anytime you like. You're not fit to sniff the steam off their piss.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> He was popular before his crimes were revealed. Let's see how popular discokermit is when he's 'necklaced' a few scabbing medical secretaries.


What are you basing your estimation of his pre-exposure popularity on?


----------



## Deareg (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> He was popular before his crimes were revealed. Let's see how popular discokermit is when he's 'necklaced' a few scabbing medical secretaries.


You obviously don't read the papers.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> He was popular before his crimes were revealed. Let's see how popular discokermit is when he's 'necklaced' a few scabbing medical secretaries.


i'll always be popular.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> i'll always be popular.



As you appear to be a mentalist, I'm not surprised you say this.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2011)

Get a room


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> As you appear to be a mentalist, I'm not surprised you say this.


i'm not surprised you think i'm a mentalist. having a discourse with you is, for me, like that film "the matrix". i must sound almost incoherent to someone as slow as you.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 6, 2011)

discokermit said:


> i'm not surprised you think i'm a mentalist. having a discourse with you is, for me, like that film "the matrix". i must sound almost incoherent to someone as slow as you.



Yes I am bedazzled by your outrageous intellect.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 6, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> Yes I am bedazzled by your outrageous intellect.


wait til you see me dance!


----------



## cantsin (Dec 7, 2011)

Zabo said:


> Back in the days of the Miners' Strike.
> 
> "They hurled a 46lb concrete block and a concrete post weighing 65lbs from a bridge over the Head of the Valleys Rd at Rhymner.
> 
> ...



such an obvious and wank thing to bring up in this context


----------



## ajdown (Dec 7, 2011)

One of my work colleagues has just come in late, having had a rock dropped on his car on the A13 this morning as he drove in.  It cracked the windscreen but didn't come into the car.  He's unhurt but a little shaken.

What the fuck is wrong with these people doing this stuff?


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2011)

I heard on the radio this morning that there's a suspicion that these fuckers are actually casting the concrete blocks themselves in a bucket, hence the uniform 'bucket' shape of many of the missiles.

I hope that's bollocks, but if it's true this is becoming very sinister indeed.


----------



## rover07 (Dec 7, 2011)

ajdown said:


> One of my work colleagues has just come in late, having had a rock dropped on his car on the A13 this morning as he drove in.  It cracked the windscreen but didn't come into the car.  He's unhurt but a little shaken.
> 
> What the fuck is wrong with these people doing this stuff?



its a laugh, like fox-hunting.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2011)

rover07 said:


> its a laugh, like fox-hunting.



Fox hunting kills foxes, this could kill people.


----------



## rover07 (Dec 7, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Fox hunting kills foxes, this could kill people.



The motive is the same. The thrill of the chase. The desire to hunt.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> i'll always be popular.



Verily, a legend in your own lunchtime!


----------



## DarthSydodyas (Dec 7, 2011)

rover07 said:


> The motive is the same. The thrill of the chase. The desire to hunt.


   i could understand that if they were launching it from one moving car towards another...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 7, 2011)

ajdown said:


> One of my work colleagues has just come in late, having had a rock dropped on his car on the A13 this morning as he drove in. It cracked the windscreen but didn't come into the car. He's unhurt but a little shaken.
> 
> What the fuck is wrong with these people doing this stuff?



In this case, the fact that they're born and bred in Essex, I suspect.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 7, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Fox hunting kills foxes, this could kill people.



Foxes, people. We're all G-d's creatures, Spy!

Won't someone think of the animals?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> if only the tommies had thought of getting a belgian taxi accross no mans land, eh?


have you any idea about equatable and comparative circumstances...

so you think it's perfectly acceptable to equate those who died in trench warfare with public sector pension strikes...

you are a infantile, brat with little to no common sense who will forever be marginalised as being the immature, unrealistic, tub thumbing lunatic who no one will ever take seriously or give and credence to anything you say...

at what point did you decide to be as ineffectual as possible in your life?

fucking citizen smith...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 7, 2011)

rover07 said:


> The motive is the same. The thrill of the chase. The desire to hunt.



Sounds like a friday night nightclub visit!


----------



## manny-p (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> wait til you see me dance!


Did you batter that guy who said you were a liar online? Think you were going to twat him at the TUC march awhile back.


----------



## dennisr (Dec 7, 2011)

if he did I didn't notice it


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2011)

Casually Red said:


> it would be more sensible to conceal snipers near motorway bridges . The filth have every right to shoot these type of cunts trying to commit murder against ordinary working people for kicks.


 
Tut tut CR. That sounds suspiciously like support for 'Shoot to Kill' to me. Hardly consistent with your politics?


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Did you batter that guy who said you were a liar online? Think you were going to twat him at the TUC march awhile back.



If DK did indeed twat whoever it was, perhaps that person will choose their words a little more carefully in future. Why should people think it's OK to call someone a liar publicly and then assume that if you bump into them that they would not seek redress?


----------



## revol68 (Dec 7, 2011)

LiamO said:


> Tut tut CR. That sounds suspiciously like support for 'Shoot to Kill' to me. Hardly consistent with your politics?



yeah but it's not like the IRA commited murder against ordinary working people, oh wait...


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2011)

revol68 said:


> yeah but it's not like the IRA commited murder against ordinary working people, oh wait...



Have you not received enough abuse on this thread already?


----------



## revol68 (Dec 7, 2011)

what can I say I just love the abuse, that's why I make way out there comments about the provo's and such, afterall what sort of right thinking person thought their terror campaign wasn't fanfuckingtastic.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2011)

Lot's of black & white stuff on this thread. Some by people not old enough to remember and some by those who should know better.

IME Disco-Kermit's views were not at all unusual at the time - in fact in some areas they may well have constituted the majority.

The Miner's strike was an incredibly intense, divisive and divided time. Lots of people were driven to desperate measures. Measures to which they would never usually go. That is just how it was.

To give an example of how many people's attitudes were polarised and hardened during it...

Right in the middle of it the IRA blew up the Grand Hotel during the Tory conference. I was attending a Skillcenter in the english midlands, training to be a brickie. This was far removed from my comfort zone of working with mates on sites. Most of the lads there had been made redundant out of the car factories so I was a kid in comparison. Everybody knew my politics because political debate, especially over the Strike but also with rtegard to Ireland, Latin America etc, was part of our daily craic.

Thus I had steeled myself for something of an anti-Irish/anti-republican backlash when I went in the Monday after Brighton. No-one said anything tol break time when a heavy silence hung in the air. At last Brian T piped up with "What about that bomb eh? Fuckin terrible. I reckon we should have a collection in here on Friday, get a tenner off every fucker in here".

I was about to suggest what he could do with his collection when he added "3 grand should be enough to make a down payment on another bomb to make a right job of the cunts!" To my shock there was not one dissenter and the ONLY anti-Irish comment I heard was "Fuckin Paddies, can't do anything right!"

This would not have surprised me had I been in Red Action or even (say) general left-wing company but the fact was these were ordinary, mostly english, lads who voted Labour if at all. There has never been a time when Britain's population was divided so completely and so bitterly (IME).

This incident was a godsend for the Tory gutter press. Most people I knew would have said ' Fuck that's well out of order' Then added 'Mind you he was a fuckin scab, so what did he expect'. These would not be violent people generally... justy ordinary people living in extraordinary times.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2011)

Spymaster, you dismiss these two fellas as 'cunts' etc. I suspect that you know deep down that such a 2-dimensional view is not really worthy of a man of your undoubted intellect and judgement.

Can any of us seriously say we have never done anything - either in jest or in anger - that could have resulted in death or serious injury to another person? I know I cannot. This would include childhood pranks (with fireworks, bricking busses etc) right up to kicking the living fuck out of Fascists who came unstuck when attacking left events in the 80's and 90's - only God/the universe/mother earth knows how none of them ever died.

I look at this incident - and others like it - as a case of "there but for the grace of god/Marx go I"


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2011)

revol68 said:


> what can I say I just love the abuse, *that's why I make way out there comments* about the provo's and such, afterall what sort of right thinking person thought their terror campaign wasn't fanfuckingtastic.



Yes indeed. You are really wacky and down with the kids... what with your 'way out there' comments and winning personality.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2011)

. dp


----------



## past caring (Dec 7, 2011)

dennisr said:


> if he did I didn't notice it


----------



## revol68 (Dec 7, 2011)

LiamO said:


> Yes indeed. You are really wacky and down with the kids... what with your 'way out there' comments and winning personality.



does rudimentary sarcasm baffle you?


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2011)

revol68 said:


> does rudimentary sarcasm baffle you?



Yep you are much too clever for lil ol' me.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 7, 2011)

LiamO said:


> Yep you are much too clever for lil ol' me.



That's true but that particular piece of sarcasm wasn't very subtle or clever.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2011)




----------



## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2011)

LiamO said:


> Spymaster, you dismiss these two fellas as 'cunts' etc. I suspect that you know deep down that such a 2-dimensional view is not really worthy of a man of your undoubted intellect and judgement.
> 
> Can any of us seriously say we have never done anything - either in jest or in anger - that could have resulted in death or serious injury to another person? I know I cannot. This would include childhood pranks (with fireworks, bricking busses etc) right up to kicking the living fuck out of Fascists who came unstuck when attacking left events in the 80's and 90's - only God/the universe/mother earth knows how none of them ever died.
> 
> I look at this incident - and others like it - as a case of "there but for the grace of god/Marx go I"



The difference being of course that I, and probably most of us, would accept the consequences of such a "prank" going wrong.

Not that I accept that it was a prank. These fellows set out to cause serious damage/injury.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 7, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> have you any idea about equatable and comparative circumstances...
> 
> so you think it's perfectly acceptable to equate those who died in trench warfare with public sector pension strikes...
> 
> ...


i've been a shop steward, led strikes, been in two riots, built a sixty foot narrowboat, and made the steelwork and staircases for thousands of buildings. i bet i have more of an effect in a day than you ever have. you bellend.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 7, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Did you batter that guy who said you were a liar online? Think you were going to twat him at the TUC march awhile back.


i couldn't find him. i even hung around listening to taffe for a bit in the hopes he'd show.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 7, 2011)

dennisr said:


> if he did I didn't notice it


you're still going to get it. i haven't forgotten.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> i've been a shop steward, led strikes, been in two riots, built a sixty foot narrowboat, and made the steelwork and staircases for thousands of buildings. i bet i have more of an effect in a day than you ever have. you bellend.


I wasn't aware it was a kudos competition however I'd take you bet and murk you before breakfast...


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 7, 2011)

LiamO said:


> Tut tut CR. That sounds suspiciously like support for 'Shoot to Kill' to me. Hardly consistent with your politics?



shooting cunts like that is entirely consistent with my politics . I only suggested the filth do it to remain inside the law


----------



## DarthSydodyas (Dec 7, 2011)

anyway, nice weather we're having.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 7, 2011)

Rather inclement ,  I thought .


----------



## pengaleng (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> i've been a shop steward, led strikes, been in two riots, built a sixty foot narrowboat, and made the steelwork and staircases for thousands of buildings. i bet i have more of an effect in a day than you ever have. you bellend.



LOLOLOLOLOL

is this guy for real??!!


----------



## discokermit (Dec 7, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I wasn't aware it was a kudos competition however I'd take you bet and murk you before breakfast...


murk? what a cunt.


----------



## discokermit (Dec 7, 2011)

tribal_princess said:


> LOLOLOLOLOL
> 
> is this guy for real??!!


oh fuck. he's got his mental girlfriend to come and have a go.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 7, 2011)

more tea vicar ??


----------



## noodles (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> i've been a shop steward, led strikes, been in two riots, built a sixty foot narrowboat, and made the steelwork and staircases for thousands of buildings. i bet i have more of an effect in a day than you ever have. you bellend.



Yeah well I've built a 61 foot narrowboat, so up yours


----------



## discokermit (Dec 7, 2011)

noodles said:


> Yeah well I've built a 61 foot narrowboat, so up yours


good stuff. did it have a bow thruster?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> oh fuck. he's got his mental girlfriend to come and have a go.


nope nice bito misogyny there too...

keep it up you have no where to go but down...


----------



## Deareg (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> good stuff. did it have a bow thruster?


It wouldn't be a narrow boat without one, Would it?


----------



## noodles (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> good stuff. did it have a bow thruster?



Dirty bastard.


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> nice bito misogyny there too...


where?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 7, 2011)

killer b said:


> where?


she must be coming to 'is defense she's not got her own mind...

fwiw you'll hardly see tp and I post on the same threads or share any part of our on line lives together... any where... why the hell would you...


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2011)

i think you're reading too much into that tbh garf. teeps is your mental gf, after all.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 7, 2011)

killer b said:


> i think you're reading too much into that tbh garf. teeps is your mental gf, after all.


yeah again not happy with the description considering her illness causes brain damage...

it was a deliberate misogynistic and disabled attack which is what it was intended...

still as long as you don't read too much into it then it must be fine..

it's alright it'll be sorted when I next meet them... permanent like...


----------



## discokermit (Dec 7, 2011)

fucking loon.


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2011)

rumble in the jungle pt 2. i'm looking forward to it.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 7, 2011)

discokermit said:


> pointless bullshit....



yeah well jel...


----------



## discokermit (Dec 7, 2011)

well jel? murk? what a fucking idiot.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 7, 2011)

Whole load of duffing up gonna be going on


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

discokermit said:


> well jel? murk? what a fucking idiot.


someone needs to throw you off a bridge on to a car... fortunately you're heads so fucking full of air it couldn't be considered dangerous...


----------



## revol68 (Dec 8, 2011)

would youse two just get it over with and fuck each other, it's getting embarrassing for the rest of us now.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 8, 2011)

us?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

revol68 said:


> would youse two just get it over with and fuck each other, it's getting embarrassing for the rest of us now.


I'd love to fuck them revol... right up...


----------



## Flanflinger (Dec 8, 2011)

Probably students responsible chucking the concrete


----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2011)

This happens quite a lot doesnt it? I know we had loads of problems with kids doing it around here when I first passed my test.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Probably students responsible chucking the concrete


what do you think these students have been studying for the last 30 years... that's one hell of a degree...

alternatively you might see your comment as exposing your own ill thought out prejudices and a total fail at reading the thread...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

sim667 said:


> This happens quite a lot doesnt it? I know we had loads of problems with kids doing it around here when I first passed my test.


fuckign kids keep this going for 30 years my god they must all grow up now I mean if they were what 5 30 years ago when they started they'd be what... the slowest aging children in the world now... fucking mutants???

Really... have a word before coming out with ill thought out guff like this...


----------



## LiamO (Dec 8, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I'd love to fuck them revol... right up...



their cute little arses? did you forget to finish your sentence?


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 8, 2011)




----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> fuckign kids keep this going for 30 years my god they must all grow up now I mean if they were what 5 30 years ago when they started they'd be what... the slowest aging children in the world now... fucking mutants???
> 
> Really... have a word before coming out with ill thought out guff like this...



Obviously not the same kids you stupid tossrag. 

Plus I'm not even thirty yet.

Your post has to be the most stupidly thought out thing I've ever read


----------



## mauvais (Dec 8, 2011)

I think what he's on about is that the incidents on the A12 have been continuously happening for 30 years. Of course, they haven't. 30 incidents in three years.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

LiamO said:


> their cute little arses? did you forget to finish your sentence?


despairs at the townie scum on these boards and remembers when it was all london-centric..


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

mauvais said:


> I think what he's on about is that the incidents on the A12 have been continuously happening for 30 years. Of course, they haven't. 30 incidents in three years.


30 3 whatever it's just anti kid sentiment which clearly is based on their hatred of kids not on the facts...


----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2011)

mauvais said:


> I think what he's on about is that the incidents on the A12 have been continuously happening for 30 years. Of course, they haven't. 30 incidents in three years.



Tbh as far as his post was concerned I'm sure I've seen better literacy skills from that dog on YouTube that says 'I love you'


----------



## LiamO (Dec 8, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Your post has to be the most stupidly thought out thing I've ever read



really? You really should read more of his posts. That one was quite joined up for him.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

nice both LameOh and his cronies fall in on each other and then launch ad homien attacks on me as a posters despite having some fuckign patentely ludricious poitns which have no basis other than a tabliod scum filled paper... seriously WTF is up with you...


----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2011)

C-


Must troll harder


----------



## LiamO (Dec 8, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> then launch ad homien attacks on me ...



Ho ho ho. Oh the irony. Garf turns cry-baby.



I will have to go and lie down ... maybe drink some Poitín or potions.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

sim667 said:


> C-
> 
> Must troll harder


you responded therefore it would appear I'm doing so hard enough muppet..


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

LiamO said:


> Ho ho ho. Oh the irony. Garf turns cry-baby. I will have to go and lie down ... maybe drink some Poitín or potions.


cry baby... fuck off son...

I'm laughing harder than you could possibly know at you and your balhamboy sim666, butchers lover fest...

it's like if I could press a trigger with one swoop we'd wipe out all the liberal cockwit fanatics on here in one go...


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 8, 2011)

Hello, I must be going


----------



## DarthSydodyas (Dec 8, 2011)




----------



## pengaleng (Dec 8, 2011)

discokermit said:


> oh fuck. he's got his really hot girlfriend to come and have a go.



fo' reals 

and anyways, I only came on here because I didn't believe everything people were saying about you, but alas, I have seen it with my own eyes now. fucking twat.


----------



## Nigel (Dec 28, 2011)

wasn


Zabo said:


> Back in the days of the Miners' Strike.
> 
> "They hurled a 46lb concrete block and a concrete post weighing 65lbs from a bridge over the Head of the Valleys Rd at Rhymner.
> 
> ...


----------

