# who is the most misanthropic writer ever????



## kakuma (Apr 4, 2006)

i don't mean racist or summat, i mean just plain misanthropists. most of the famous ones always crack by the end and reveal a sense of inner pain and love for humankind rather than just being out and out cunts

is there anyone who is still shockingly cynical in this day and age??


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## Markyd (Apr 4, 2006)

I get the impression that Will Self is a bit down on us all!

In that he writes well about the dark side of hunman nature but doesn't (hasn't?) do the shiney happy people thing well.


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## rutabowa (Apr 4, 2006)

Bukowski... hmm I guess he mellowed at the end. Houllebecq will probably always be a wanker though.


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## rutabowa (Apr 4, 2006)

it's kind of boring when writers are JUST cynical, anyway... i mean, what are they writing for?


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## kakuma (Apr 4, 2006)

rutabowa said:
			
		

> Bukowski... hmm I guess he mellowed at the end. Houllebecq will probably always be a wanker though.



Bukowski always seemed quite optimistic in his own way

haven't read Houlebbec but i heard he only wrote one good book and then did porn


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## foo (Apr 4, 2006)

Jilly Cooper

well she seems to think everyone is a posh pony & man obsessed bint like her. 

which is pretty misanthropic in my book!


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## laptop (Apr 4, 2006)

Jahweh.

Or His ghostwriters, anyway.


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## akirajoel (Apr 4, 2006)

Cool idea for a thread.   

Have to agree to Houllebecq is pretty down on all things human. Can still be pretty funny at points thou... I would recommend Atomised (as long as you promise to read it all the way to the end...)

Thing is - lots of writers that seem to be down on everything are actually full of sunshine if you dig down deep enough. Eg. Lots of people say that Vonnegut is a misanthrope. But thats only if you skim read him. Ditto (although he's not _technically _ a writer) Bill Hicks: seems like a crumdugen to the naked eye - but is actually a bit of a hippy who thinks we should all take drugs, open our third eyes and talk to god...

Say it again - i guess it all depends on your point of view huh??




			
				rutabowa said:
			
		

> it's kind of boring when writers are JUST cynical, anyway... i mean, what are they writing for?



Do you mean that anyone that just talks about one thing (no matter what that one thing is...)?

Or - that if people are being so cynical - then - like - why do they bother?

Coz if you mean the first thing - i kinda agree with you. But if you mean the second - i think you're missing the point......

Bur.


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## rutabowa (Apr 4, 2006)

Ninjaboy said:
			
		

> Bukowski always seemed quite optimistic in his own way


yeh i think so too really, lot's of people don't though




			
				Ninjaboy said:
			
		

> haven't read Houlebbec but i heard he only wrote one good book and then did porn


mm, that's not really true. i'm not really sure if i think he's good or not tho. i can defintiely remember his books a lot... like "Atomised"... but i didn't particularly like him them i was reading them. apparently in France he's totally looked down on, it's only abroad that anyone thinks he deserves any attention.


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## Dubversion (Apr 4, 2006)

i much preferred Platform to Atomised (which ends horribly, like pisspoor Heinlein)... Don't see the misanthropy in Vonnegut at all, he's an incredible human(ist) writer who just feels we've fucked up (possibly terminally). But in his believe that people are rarely bad and generally just affected by bad chemicals in their brain and bad choices in their lives, i can't see the misanthropy.. Bukowski is surely more about moments of self-loathing (interspersed with immense arrogance  ) than misanthropy per se..

I suspect the most misanthropic writers are folks i haven't even read - Celine, maybe? De Sade? etc.


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## rutabowa (Apr 4, 2006)

akirajoel said:
			
		

> Do you mean that anyone that just talks about one thing (no matter what that one thing is...)?
> 
> Or - that if people are being so cynical - then - like - why do they bother?
> 
> ...


what i mean is, TOTAL cynicism is like a cul-de-sac, it's easy and boring, and say with Houllebecq I think he's affecting it too, to sell books basically. I think it's false, and for me if writing is to be anything it's got to be true, not just shocking or whatever. I think it's not in humans to be entirely cynical... so if someone focuses on that to the exclusion of everything else then they are not being tru to humanity and so are LIARS!!!!!!!!!!


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## rutabowa (Apr 4, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> Bukowski is surely more about moments of self-loathing (interspersed with immense arrogance  ) than misanthropy per se..


i actually think misanthropy comes out significantly more than self-loathing in the books of his i've read! but it's always undercut with the moments of hungover insight and tendrness, very human and mixed-up. i agree with you about Vonnegut, he has total love for humanity and is great.


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## Sunspots (Apr 4, 2006)

Definitely not Bukowski or Hicks.  At the heart of their worldviews, they both had a whole lot of humanity and compassion, and I think the vast majority of their tirades were borne out of frustration with what they perceived as a dumb world. 

People like Jim Goad and Boyd Rice spring to my mind as probably being fairly misanthropic sorts, but tbh I'm not that familiar with much of their writings/rantings.  (I'm sure more informed posters than I will probably be able to comment better about them.)

Can we include GG Allin?


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## sleaterkinney (Apr 4, 2006)

> Have to agree to Houllebecq is pretty down on all things human. Can still be pretty funny at points thou... I would recommend Atomised (as long as you promise to read it all the way to the end...)


I agree with dub, I thought the ending was a let down and a bit of a cop-out. He just took stuff to extremes to get his point across but its done for effect with him, fiction rather than reality.


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## lobster (Apr 5, 2006)

how about Dostoyevsky, the 19th century russian writer, espcially "notes from the underground" then there is knut hamson, "mysteries" is cynical so too is "hunger".
I would agree with celine, "journey to the end of the night" "death on credit" and "castle to castle". Before Houllebecq was a full-time writer he was a computer programmer for the goverment just about surving, atomised reflects some of that.
In a new york interview he said he is the reverse charactor.

Not  a novelist but E.M. Cioran's - "the trouble with being born" is cynical


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## In Bloom (Apr 5, 2006)

Shurley Hobbes?


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## Masseuse (Apr 5, 2006)

Julie Burchill


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Apr 5, 2006)

Hunter S. Thompson


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## maya (Apr 6, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> I suspect the most misanthropic writers are folks i haven't even read - Celine, maybe? De Sade? etc.


de Sade was more of a "decadent-nihilist", surely?
freedom for white men to abuse women and children/boys/themselves, etc.

i second Houellebecq, he must be (at least) the most _famous_, _living _exponent of misanthropy in literature today...
while refraining to comment on the (perceived) "quality" of his work- i'm in no position to judge that, as i've only come by french editions of his books, and i'm french-illiterate...


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## Orang Utan (Apr 6, 2006)

Matthew Stokoe for Cows


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## Donna Ferentes (Apr 6, 2006)

Swift. By the end of _Gulliver's Travels_ he doesn't want to be around people at all any more.


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## jbob (Apr 6, 2006)

Yukio Mishima, in a Japanese fascist kind of a way. Great writer, though


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## kakuma (Apr 6, 2006)

jbob said:
			
		

> Yukio Mishima, in a Japanese fascist kind of a way. Great writer, though



i need to read some japanese literature, it's hard what with the translation thing and that, but i find the culture fascinating, specially from a misanthropic point of view


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## Orang Utan (Apr 6, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Matthew Stokoe for Cows


"Forget Bret Easton Ellis, Poppy Z Brite, and Dennis Cooper. That's kid's stuff. If you want something truly repellent, try this"


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## Cid (Apr 6, 2006)

Ninjaboy said:
			
		

> i need to read some japanese literature, it's hard what with the translation thing and that, but i find the culture fascinating, specially from a misanthropic point of view



Junichiro Tanizaki comes highly reccomended, his novels are meant to be good but imo it's his essay on Japanese culture 'In Praise of Shadows' that will really stick with you. It sees the Japanese world from a perspective that we would never normally be able to appreciate - it comes from the period when tradiotional Japanese aesthtics and culture were being steadily overwhelmed by the influx of western technology and ideas, but rather than being a lament for lost values it's a wistful reccolection of that unique world. I have never come across another book that manages to give you as thorough a perspective of Japan as this little book does. And it does it in about 73 small pages. Worth it, if only for the part describing taking a shit as period of deep contemplation.


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## Cloo (Apr 6, 2006)

DH Lawrence... pretty miserable view of humanity, I think.


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## spartacus mills (Apr 6, 2006)

lobster said:
			
		

> I would agree with celine, "journey to the end of the night" "death on credit" and "castle to castle".



So would I.


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## jbob (Apr 6, 2006)

Cloo said:
			
		

> DH Lawrence... pretty miserable view of humanity, I think.


Possibly more of a misogynist, but yes, a misanthropist too.

Phillip Larkin if you fancy a bit of misanthropic poetry, with a serving of rascism and a dollop of misogyny thrown in too.


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## phildwyer (Apr 6, 2006)

Evelyn Waugh.


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## lobster (Apr 6, 2006)

I forgot to mention Chuck Palahniuk. "Diary" , "fight club" (not based on the film imo).
some of the stories in "Haunted" are quite funny especially the kid who masturbates in the water and gets sucked under and dies.The rest of stories are fairly bitter in a unusal way, Chuck is actaully a optimistic person in real life which makes his writing interesting.
Gunter grass , the tin drum could be considers misanthropic from the dwarfs point of view.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 6, 2006)

phildwyer said:
			
		

> Evelyn Waugh.


She's very scornful isn't she?


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## rubbershoes (Apr 7, 2006)

lol


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## Sid's Snake (Apr 7, 2006)

St Paul


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## chainsaw cat (Apr 7, 2006)

phildwyer said:
			
		

> Evelyn Waugh.



Beat me to it. What about Huxley?

Tom Sharpe is pretty cruel to his characters.


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## Donna Ferentes (Apr 7, 2006)

Orwell on Swift


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## Sunspots (Apr 7, 2006)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> Hunter S. Thompson






			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> The famous author Hunter S. Thompson was considered by many members of his family and close friends to harbour a misanthropic worldview. This is quite evident in a lot of his writing; many close to him have speculated that these feelings were brought on by a very tough childhood that saw his father die quite young and his mother fall into alcoholism.



I'd never really considered him to be misanthropic, but the more I think about it...


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## tastebud (Apr 7, 2006)

rutabowa said:
			
		

> i agree with you about Vonnegut, he has total love for humanity and is great.


His autobiography looks amazing. I've only really read this bit: 





> "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you." A lot of people think Jesus said that, because it is so much the sort of thing Jesus liked to say. But it was actually said by Confucius, a Chinese philosopher, five hundred years before there was that greatest and most humane of human beings, named Jesus Christ.
> 
> The Chinese also gave us, via Marco Polo, pasta and the formula for gunpowder. The Chinese were so dumb they only used gunpowder for fireworks. And everybody was so dumb back then that nobody in either hemisphere even knew that there was another one.
> We've sure come a long way since then. Sometimes I wish we hadn't. I hate H-bombs and the Jerry Springer Show
> ...


But it makes me want more. When it's cheaper/free I shall definitely be reading that.

I agree about Houllebecq - Lanzarote was unbelieveable. Atomised and Platform too, but Lanzarote sticks in my mind. If I were at home I'd copy a bit from it here, to illustrate.


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## awaysaway (Apr 8, 2006)

I'd say Willian S. Burroughs.... often accused of being a misogynist, and even a homophobe (he was gay). Ultimately, i think he hated everybody equally.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Apr 9, 2006)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> I'd never really considered him to be misanthropic, but the more I think about it...



He hated people, hated life, and died the death of a misanthrope.


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## jim70 (Apr 9, 2006)

Lord Rochester on self-disgust
Wyndham Lewis' 'Apes of God' on 1920s poseurs
and Thomas Bernhard, although not a complete misanthrope, was extremely unforgiving on his fellow Austrians; see 'Extinction', 'Gargoyles' and 'Elizabeth II'


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## crimethInc (Apr 9, 2006)

the obvious:

J.D.Salinger


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