# National Action to be proscribed as a "Terrorist Organisation"



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 11, 2016)

Not that I support the state banning of groups it'll be nice not to keep seeing that baby faced cunt keep appearing on my social media feed when news orgs have been giving them free publicity.

British neo-nazi group 'to be classed as terror organisation and banned' in unprecedented move


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## Red Sky (Dec 11, 2016)

It seems like a bit of an over-reaction. 100 members in the Yorkshire division? Half a dozen tops.


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## likesfish (Dec 11, 2016)

when you start tweeting that dead mp's would be a good thing praising a murderous nut job who shares your repellent views and doing everything possible to be the go to Nazi group.
 No real surprise that the state thumps you plus MI5 hates going further north than watford


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 11, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> It seems like a bit of an over-reaction. 100 members in the Yorkshire division? Half a dozen tops.



I think they have 100 members nationally at tops. God knows where the Independent get their data from.


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## Red Sky (Dec 11, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think they have 100 members nationally at tops. God knows where the Independent get their data from.



It wouldn't surprise me if it was an Hope not Hate source. They have that vested interest in playing up the threat.


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## Red Sky (Dec 11, 2016)

We should probably have a sweepstake on what name they're gonna pop up under next.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 11, 2016)

Nationalist Action


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## Casually Red (Dec 11, 2016)

Nationalist Actionists


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## The Flying Pig (Dec 11, 2016)

Never had the good fortune to bump into these numb nuts! Unfortunately they will reappear as something else or maybe team up with someone else, south east alliance seem to be short on the ground at the mo.


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## bi0boy (Dec 11, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not that I support the state banning of groups it'll be nice not to keep seeing that baby faced cunt keep appearing on my social media feed when news orgs have been giving them free publicity.



Because Anjem Chodary was never given any publicity after the times any of his groups were proscribed.


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## Fozzie Bear (Dec 11, 2016)

Nationale Aktiön


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 11, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Because Anjem Chodary was never given any publicity after the times any of his groups were proscribed.



I'm talking about before they were proscribed. Channel 4 and Sky vids on my news feed within the last 2 weeks.


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## Red Sky (Dec 11, 2016)

Walt-right.


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## Red Sky (Dec 11, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Never had the good fortune to bump into these numb nuts! Unfortunately they will reappear as something else or maybe team up with someone else, south east alliance seem to be short on the ground at the mo.



Should get out and about more Mr Pig.


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## albionism (Dec 11, 2016)

Ought Rite.


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## Casually Red (Dec 11, 2016)

Irrational Action


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## Casually Red (Dec 11, 2016)

Unnatural Action


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## Casually Red (Dec 11, 2016)

National Action Faction


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## Casually Red (Dec 11, 2016)

National Dachshund

National Action Dachshund Faction for Action

https://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/la-0611-pin05.jpg


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## JimW (Dec 11, 2016)

National Traction, that'll pull the punters in, if it doesn't get more backs up.


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## Casually Red (Dec 11, 2016)

National Achtung


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## Casually Red (Dec 11, 2016)

The Achtung Ultras


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 11, 2016)

I was going to suggest Nashville Asphalt, but then I got distracted reading the blog of an actual Nashville asphalt contractor  

Turns out there's a whole science to painting the white lines in car parks 

Parking Lot Striping Nashville | BPC Asphalt


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 12, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Nationale Aktiön



Nationalische Aktion, mein freund.


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## Red Sky (Dec 12, 2016)

International Rescue


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## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 12, 2016)




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## butchersapron (Dec 12, 2016)

I assure you, that was me rolling over on the phone in bed or something.


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## Libertad (Dec 12, 2016)

albionism said:


> Ought Rite.



Nowt reet.


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## butchersapron (Dec 12, 2016)

Of all the people for my stomach to like though....


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## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 12, 2016)

Yeah yeah, I reckon we just caught you out. The mask slipped, you post-liking hippy.


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## likesfish (Dec 12, 2016)

problem is "leaderless resistance" bullshit can get a few people killed the cunt who went on a nail bombing campaign left all the right wing groups as they were just talking and not willing to commit to starting a race war. 
  Its just like the various islamic nutjobs while IS and the like might offering funding and help to a jihadist their perfectly happy to take credit if somebody decides to stab a kuffar for allah.

Points moot if you get killed by a signed up member of a terrorsit group or some lone nutjob inspired by their beliefs your still dead.


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 12, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> International Rescue



David milliband beat them to it.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 12, 2016)

Speaking of Copeland, none of the groups he was linked to got proscribed following his campaign, although the NSA frantically disbanded in anticipation of front doors getting put through.


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## treelover (Dec 12, 2016)

likesfish said:


> when you start tweeting that dead mp's would be a good thing praising a murderous nut job who shares your repellent views and doing everything possible to be the go to Nazi group.
> No real surprise that the state thumps you plus MI5 hates going further north than watford



I think they have a base in Leeds.


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## treelover (Dec 12, 2016)

Will they, small as they are' now go underground?, they did in Germany, with awful results.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 12, 2016)

likesfish said:


> problem is "leaderless resistance" bullshit can get a few people killed the cunt who went on a nail bombing campaign left all the right wing groups as they were just talking and not willing to commit to starting a race war.
> Its just like the various islamic nutjobs while IS and the like might offering funding and help to a jihadist their perfectly happy to take credit if somebody decides to stab a kuffar for allah.
> 
> Points moot if you get killed by a signed up member of a terrorsit group or some lone nutjob inspired by their beliefs your still dead.


I hate to break it to you but we are all going to die. all of us.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 12, 2016)

treelover said:


> Will they, small as they are' now go underground?, they did in Germany, with awful results.



Whatever they do they won't stop being fascists or presumably organising as such.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 12, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> I hate to break it to you but we are all going to die. all of us.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 12, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


>



No one gets out of here alive


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 12, 2016)

Is this now a music quiz? The Doors?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 12, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Is this now a music quiz?


no


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## DotCommunist (Dec 12, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> No one gets out of here alive


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## Libertad (Dec 12, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> No one gets out of here alive



You get yours baby, I'll get mine.


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## Red Sky (Dec 12, 2016)

treelover said:


> I think they have a base in Leeds.



Who? International Rescue?


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## Libertad (Dec 12, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Who? International Rescue?



Yeah, Tracy Island is under the White Rose centre.


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 12, 2016)




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## Bakunin (Dec 12, 2016)

One question, though. I notice C18, Redwatch and Blood & Honour are still not proscribed. Or are they still providing valuable service to the SB and Thames House?


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 13, 2016)

Stormfront is particularly amusing at the moment. National Action was the state discrediting Nationalism. Even though Nationalists agree with their views. And the state is controlled by Mossad lest we forget.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 13, 2016)

Although I don't understand why the state would simultaneously use National Action as a means of discrediting Nationalism and then ban it when it was doing such a good job of it. That remains unclear.


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 13, 2016)

Belt & braces


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## chilango (Dec 13, 2016)




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## chilango (Dec 13, 2016)

chilango said:


>




Thinking (far too hard) about it there must be some sort of lesson, or allegory, that can be drawn for the path of radical groups from the underground towards recuperation or state control from the path followed by the above pop group "Fuzzbox" from their early days as (the quite charming) "We've got a fuzzbox and we're gonna use it".



A lesson for us all in that journey I'm sure...


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## jimmer (Dec 13, 2016)

I'm kind of surprised at how badly prepared NA seem to be for this happening. Co-founder Ben Raymond wrote an article for the Daily Stormer which was published Sunday arguing the suggestions NA were about to be proscribed were fabricated. All the ones I've seen talking about this online seem to be saying they're going to keep going and appeal the ban, which means a lot of them are going to be liable for lengthy prison sentences from Friday onwards


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2016)

jimmer said:


> I'm kind of surprised at how badly prepared NA seem to be for this happening. Co-founder Ben Raymond wrote an article for the Daily Stormer which was published Sunday arguing the suggestions NA were about to be proscribed were fabricated. All the ones I've seen talking about this online seem to be saying they're going to keep going and appeal the ban, which means a lot of them are going to be liable for lengthy prison sentences from Friday onwards


most sensible groups would simply change their name and keep going


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## jimmer (Dec 13, 2016)

If they were sensible they wouldn't have given the state the opportunity to proscribe them. I'm listening to a podcast at the moment where one of their supporters appears to be shocked they're being banned, suggesting it's because they're "pro-white". I can't tell if they're too thick to realise they're getting banned for the support for political violence, even if they're shit at it.

Genuinely interested as to what this is - 



> A source told the Sunday Mirror authorities had uncovered some “deeply disturbing information” about the activities of some National Action members.


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## Spymaster (Dec 13, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> most sensible groups would simply change their name and keep going


In theory, changing the name isn't an effective work-around because aliases can be treated the same as the proscribed organisation. In practice, as you say, it's probably not that simple as it has to be shown that the alias is ostensibly the same as the banned outfit.

I think it's still worth doing though. Apart from the fact that they are breaking the law and should be seen to be sanctioned, it must be disruptive to them on some levels even if it's only simplifying the process of freezing and seizing assets and resources. It may never be done but it'll piss them off. And that's good.


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## rekil (Dec 13, 2016)

Hands off Intergalactic Action


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## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> In theory, changing the name isn't an effective work-around because aliases can be treated the same as the proscribed organisation. In practice, as you say, it's probably not that simple as it has to be shown that the alias is ostensibly the same as the banned outfit.
> 
> I think it's still worth doing though. Apart from the fact that they are breaking the law and should be seen to be sanctioned, it must be disruptive to them on some levels even if it's only simplifying the process of freezing and seizing assets and resources. It may never be done but it'll piss them off. And that's good.


maybe it opens them up to drone strikes.


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## likesfish (Dec 13, 2016)

Look at the quality of mps of the main partys
 Then ukip meps
	Then local councillors 
	   Then the swp and bnp 
			 And finally the founders of national action and their 100 strong aryan freedom fighters  its not like  UK mainstream politics attracted the best and the brightest  and national action are so far from the deep bit they are in the toddlers play pool its so shallow


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## jimmer (Dec 13, 2016)

They could get round proscription fairly easily if they significantly changed the group and got a new name, but they'd need to drop all the proto-terrorist stuff. It's kind of funny seeing them totally ignore all the lessons older fash have learnt about how to navigate the UK's race relation laws etc. They've got a number of members being investigated or arrested for things which more experienced fash have learnt over the years. Larry Nunn from Northampton wrote an article on his Western Spring blog the other day desperately trying to explain to them how to be a racist in public without going to jail.


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## TopCat (Dec 13, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Nationalist Action


National Actionettes


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 13, 2016)




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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 13, 2016)

Actionalist Nation


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## SpackleFrog (Dec 13, 2016)

Bakunin said:


> One question, though. I notice C18, Redwatch and Blood & Honour are still not proscribed. Or are they still providing valuable service to the SB and Thames House?



I was thinking this. Reflective of a change in approach in post Brexit Britain perhaps?


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## emanymton (Dec 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> National Actionettes


National actuaries

kabbes


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## kabbes (Dec 13, 2016)

emanymton said:


> National actuaries
> 
> kabbes


<< _Inter_national actuary.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 13, 2016)

Hove actuary


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## Bakunin (Dec 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> National Actionettes


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## Beats & Pieces (Dec 13, 2016)

It isn't about what they say - it is about what they might represent and how that might be used in future demarcations (and justifications) of a neo-realist position. 

More simply - the UK Government apparatus needs a balancing 'right-wing' group to avoid being accused of 'Islamophobia' and racism in respect of proscription. It can't ban the BNP as it has engaged on an apparently democratic basis.


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## ddraig (Dec 13, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


> I was thinking this. Reflective of a change in approach in post Brexit Britain perhaps?


is it not just because they appear to threaten (and revel in their death) them lot who can do the prescribing


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## chilango (Dec 13, 2016)

Otoh at least they've made me revisit the back catalogue of Fuzzbox. I'm starting to quite like their early stuff.


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## Fingers (Dec 13, 2016)

.


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## Casually Red (Dec 14, 2016)

I think it's because of Jo Cox . They have to be seen to " do something " and this is the scrawniest runt on the fash tree . probably some other reason too but the timing fits .


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## Humberto (Dec 14, 2016)

Who are you talking too?


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## Casually Red (Dec 14, 2016)

Humberto said:


> Who are you talking too?



Too ?


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## Humberto (Dec 14, 2016)

or to

alt right bullshit


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## Casually Red (Dec 14, 2016)

Humberto said:


> or to
> 
> alt right bullshit



Assuming the state has banned a fascist group in response to a fascist murdering an MP is probably alt right bullshit indeed . If ..you too...are a complete fucking wanker .


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## Humberto (Dec 14, 2016)

Thanks for making sense


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## SpackleFrog (Dec 14, 2016)

ddraig said:


> is it not just because they appear to threaten (and revel in their death) them lot who can do the prescribing



Well, I don't remember Combat 18 or Redwatch being very pleasant about the political establishment either. I do think it's partly about being seen to do something about Jo Cox's murder and about the perception that racism is on the rise. But I've also been wondering if there isn't an element of reaction because they're worried that relying on dog whistle racism and nationalism for political legitimacy and using immigrants as scapegoats for decades has got a bit out of their control. The Tory instinct when pushed tends towards knee jerk authoritarianism after all.  I haven't quite finished this thought in my head yet to be honest but this seems like a change in tack from the way that the British state has previously dealt with the far right. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but the BUF weren't proscribed until after WW2 began were they? And no other far right org has ever been proscribed since.


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## Casually Red (Dec 14, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


> Well, I don't remember Combat 18 or Redwatch being very pleasant about the political establishment either. I do think it's partly about being seen to do something about Jo Cox's murder and about the perception that racism is on the rise. But I've also been wondering if there isn't an element of reaction because they're worried that relying on dog whistle racism and nationalism for political legitimacy and using immigrants as scapegoats for decades has got a bit out of their control. The Tory instinct when pushed tends towards knee jerk authoritarianism after all.  I haven't quite finished this thought in my head yet to be honest but this seems like a change in tack from the way that the British state has previously dealt with the far right. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but the BUF weren't proscribed until after WW2 began were they? And no other far right org has ever been proscribed since.



These days the fascists in the UK are infinitely more splintered than those previous manifestations . NF imploded , then BNP, Griffins mainstream focussed project has gone completely tits up , as has EDL and now it's just frustrated groupuscules popping up like boils who are so tiny they've no hope of going anywhere , no strategy  or support ...and not even attempting to persue either..and therefore no sense of verbal , psychological or ideological constraint. Or even direction . They're just acting out their hatreds and frustrations and indulging themselves .

 The state are just popping an ugly little pimple for appearances sake now somebody important got murdered by an unhinged lone wolf fanatic . they have to be seen to be on top of things and " doing something " . They can't demonise or blacken people who are already that far out batshit and proud of it  . Can't isolate people who are completely and totally isolated . can't infiltrate them any more than they have been already . It's window dressing , being seen to be on top. And with zero worries about making political martyrs out of these bums . 

Ultimately it's not some poor random sod who got murdered on the way home from the pub or the mosque . These things happened and nobody got proscribed . An MP was murdered . The state have to be seen to respond .


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## Humberto (Dec 14, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Assuming the state has banned a fascist group in response to a fascist murdering an MP is probably alt right bullshit indeed . If ..you too...are a complete fucking wanker .



Been a bit para this last couple of weeks for some reason. Finally surfaced in a nonsense post. Gonna knock it in the head for a while. Apologies. No harm done I hope.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Look at the eejits in their little uniforms. Reminds me of the nationalists back in Ireland. The boys in their military garb. Fuck nationalism and fuck flag waving.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Look at the eejits in their little uniforms. Reminds me of the nationalists back in Ireland. The boys in their military garb. Fuck nationalism and fuck flag waving.



What the fuck has Irish nationalism got to do with this thread?


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## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What the fuck has Irish nationalism got to do with this thread?



Nationalism is dodgy and vile. I was just remarking on how the boys with their uniforms remind me of back home. No big deal.


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## jimmer (Dec 14, 2016)

NA have disbanded according to Ben Raymond -


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## DotCommunist (Dec 14, 2016)

'we achieved everything we set out to do'

liverpool went all according to ze plan then


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## jimmer (Dec 14, 2016)

Yeah, they never managed to publicly call a demonstration as NA and carry it off in the entirety of their existence.

You'd have thought that was something they hoped to achieve, being a fascist street organisation.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Nationalism is dodgy and vile. I was just remarking on how the boys with their uniforms remind me of back home. No big deal.



Irish nationalism is nothing like the neo nazism of national action, all you're doing is bringing out your hobby horse to try and have a ruck.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Irish nationalism is nothing like the neo nazism of national action, all you're doing is bringing out your hobby horse to try and have a ruck.



Whatever you say.


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## Casually Red (Dec 14, 2016)

Humberto said:


> Been a bit para this last couple of weeks for some reason. Finally surfaced in a nonsense post. Gonna knock it in the head for a while. Apologies. No harm done I hope.



Fair enough . Hope you feel better soon .


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## rekil (Dec 14, 2016)

Humberto said:


> Been a bit para this last couple of weeks for some reason. Finally surfaced in a nonsense post. Gonna knock it in the head for a while. Apologies. No harm done I hope.


Don't apologise to that cunt please m8. He's been spamming forums with deranged pro-fascist shit for at least 10 years.


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## Casually Red (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Irish nationalism is nothing like the neo nazism of national action, all you're doing is bringing out your hobby horse to try and have a ruck.



He's best ignored


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## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

copliker said:


> Don't apologise to that cunt please m8. He's been spamming forums with deranged pro-fascist shit for at least 10 years.



Seconded. Stick the macho fascist on ignore.


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## Fozzie Bear (Dec 14, 2016)

Look at me! I also have strong feelings on controversial subjects and am easily hurt.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Look at me! I also have strong feelings on controversial subjects and am easily hurt.



Good for you.


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## rekil (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Seconded. Stick the macho fascist on ignore.


He's not "macho" ffs. On here, he'll shout about the need to persecute refugees and advocated the rape and murder of an anti-Assad Syrian woman but it all translates into absolutely fuck all "irl". He blubbed like a babby when some scumbag he claimed was his mate got Duterted by the IRA.


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## SpackleFrog (Dec 14, 2016)

Do we think any other groups could be banned? Or are people basically in agreement that NA have made it very hard for the state not to ban them?


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## Fozzie Bear (Dec 14, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


> Do we think any other groups could be banned? Or are people basically in agreement that NA have made it very hard for the state not to ban them?



There isn't a pressing need to ban NA, it is just theatre. The state has a tonne of methods at its disposal to crack down on small groups and it has the resources to do it too. As others have said, they can ban NA and tick the box of "having done something". Then watch the ripples of recrimination spread across the far right pond.

My guess would be that _if_ they had a shopping list that they would also try and ban some Islamic groups or if they were particularly desperate they could find some people who are supporting anyone who goes out to fight ISIS on the basis that they are connected to weaponry in some way. Or manufacture some spurious group connected to the Informal Anarchists or whoever the fuck they were?


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## Bakunin (Dec 14, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> 'we achieved everything we set out to do'
> 
> liverpool went all according to ze plan then



The NA party anthem, post-Liverpool:


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Irish nationalism is nothing like the neo nazism of national action, all you're doing is bringing out your hobby horse to try and have a ruck.



You're right. Irish nationalism slaughtered hundreds of innocent people, and maimed many more. Not just one MP.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> You're right. Irish nationalism slaughtered hundreds of innocent people, and maimed many more. Not just one MP.



Which is a drop in the ocean compared with imperialism. Your move.


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## chilango (Dec 14, 2016)




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## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> You're right. Irish nationalism slaughtered hundreds of innocent people, and maimed many more. Not just one MP.


How quickly Ian Gow is forgotten


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## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2016)

.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Which is a drop in the ocean compared with imperialism. Your move.



The UDA, The IRA and all the other paramilitary boys gangs. Engaging in peaceful means is just way too sissy for them. Much better to slaughter innocents.

There's scant difference between all these flag waving boy bands. But I guess there's always going to be groupies...


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Which is a drop in the ocean compared with imperialism. Your move.



Imperialism was long before my time, the murdering scum calling themselves Irish nationalists were not. BTW, both sides. The purportedly Protestant murdering scum as well as the purportedly Roman Catholic.

By your example, we should be chiding the Italians for murdering Boadicea.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> The UDA, The IRA and all the other paramilitary boys gangs. Engaging in peaceful means is just way too sissy for them. Much better to slaughter innocents.
> 
> There's scant difference between all these flag waving boy bands. But I guess there's always going to be groupies...



Of which Magnus appears to be one.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> Imperialism was long before my time, the murdering scum calling themselves Irish nationalists were not. BTW, both sides. The purportedly Protestant murdering scum as well as the purportedly Roman Catholic.
> 
> By your example, we should be chiding the Italians for murdering Boadicea.



Northern Ireland is the result of British Imperialist manoeuvres in Ireland. So you can thank them for Irish Nationalism. Not before your time at all, is it?


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> The UDA, The IRA and all the other paramilitary boys gangs. Engaging in peaceful means is just way too sissy for them. Much better to slaughter innocents.
> 
> There's scant difference between all these flag waving boy bands. But I guess there's always going to be groupies...



I thought you were putting your hobby horse away?


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 14, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> How quickly Ian Gow is forgotten



Indeed. Airey Neave also, together with Robert Bradford and Anthony Berry. Eight MPs assassinated since 1922. I wonder how that stacks up against other countries.

List of serving British MPs who were assassinated - Wikipedia


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## butchersapron (Dec 14, 2016)

Diamond lights - great song.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Northern Ireland is the result of British Imperialist manoeuvres in Ireland. So you can thank them for Irish Nationalism. Not before your time at all, is it?



Utter fucking bollocks. (In common with the rest of your verbal diarrhoea.)


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> Utter fucking bollocks. (In common with the rest of your verbal diarrhoea.)



The British never occupied Ireland then?


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## Beats & Pieces (Dec 14, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> There isn't a pressing need to ban NA, it is just theatre. The state has a tonne of methods at its disposal to crack down on small groups and it has the resources to do it too. As others have said, they can ban NA and tick the box of "having done something". Then watch the ripples of recrimination spread across the far right pond.
> 
> My guess would be that _if_ they had a shopping list that they would also try and ban some Islamic groups or if they were particularly desperate they could find some people who are supporting anyone who goes out to fight ISIS on the basis that they are connected to weaponry in some way. Or manufacture some spurious group connected to the Informal Anarchists or whoever the fuck they were?



I absolutely agree with the final point - it does make you wonder, given the protestations regarding how big the threat to the UK allegedly is, why more groups have _not_ been banned - especially given the move towards preventative interventions across the legal framework.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I thought you were putting your hobby horse away?



I'll consider it when you take your boy band posters off the wall.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> Indeed. Airey Neave also, together with Robert Bradford and Anthony Berry. Eight MPs assassinated since 1922. I wonder how that stacks up against other countries.
> 
> List of serving British MPs who were assassinated - Wikipedia


Better than some and not as well as others


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I'll consider it when you take your boy band posters off the wall.



The thread is about National Action. You and some other halfwit are hell bent on derailing it.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The thread is about National Action. You and some other halfwit are hell bent on derailing it.


I'll shut up then

Ah, I see you don't mean me


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## likesfish (Dec 14, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> How quickly Ian Gow is forgotten



The IRA claimed responsibility for killing Gow, stating that he was targeted because he was a "close personal associate" of Thatcher and because of his role in developing British policy on Northern Ireland.[28]

the fact that the government ignored his ideas never crossed there minds lets kill someone


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> Utter fucking bollocks. (In common with the rest of your verbal diarrhoea.)


Have you read peace by ordeal?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2016)

likesfish said:


> The IRA claimed responsibility for killing Gow, stating that he was targeted because he was a "close personal associate" of Thatcher and because of his role in developing British policy on Northern Ireland.[28]
> 
> the fact that the government ignored his ideas never crossed there minds lets kill someone


If it had been let's kill someone why did they go to all the bother of offing Gow when according to you anyone would have done?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The thread is about National Action. You and some other halfwit are hell bent on derailing it.



Apologists for the IRA or UDA or any other murdering flag waving filth will occasionally be challenged. I think that's only fair.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

Irish republicanism is an interesting fracture point on the far right with British Nationalists supporting British rule and neo nazi white supremacist types seeing them as their white brothers. National Action were in the latter camp.
On the left it's mostly wet liberals that side with the God Save The Queen types on the matter.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Apologists for the IRA or UDA or any other murdering flag waving filth will occasionally be challenged. I think that's only fair.



But you raised the subject, nobody else.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But you raised the subject, nobody else.



I made a comparison. Much like another poster made a comparison with Anjem Choudhury, no more, no less. Apologies for the hellish derail - the floor is yours.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I made a comparison. Much like another poster made a comparison with Anjem Choudhury, no more, no less. Apologies for the hellish derail - the floor is yours.



What nationality are you?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What nationality are you?



Oh please, we're not playing that game are we? I'm Irish.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Oh please, we're not playing that game are we? I'm Irish.



Well I wasn't expecting THAT!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

An Irish national who wishes he wasn't.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> An Irish national who wishes he wasn't.



Don't know where you got that idea from 

I'm an Irish national, not an Irish Nationalist. Not all of us buy into the hard men of Ulster/struggle/war/beret and shades schtick, you know? 

Be as ridiculous and insulting as saying you are a British national who wishes you weren't because you don't have empathy with National Action...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Don't know where you got that idea from
> 
> I'm an Irish national, not an Irish Nationalist. Not all of us buy into the hard men of Ulster/struggle/war/beret and shades schtick, you know?
> 
> Be as ridiculous and insulting as saying you are a British national who wishes you weren't because you don't have empathy with National Action...



But you'd be British if it wasn't for RA. Or maybe that's what you'd prefer?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I'm an Irish national, not an Irish Nationalist. Not all of us buy into the hard men of Ulster/struggle/war/beret and shades schtick, you know?
> 
> Be as ridiculous and insulting as saying you are a British national who wishes you weren't because you don't have empathy with National Action...



But they're republicans not Nationalists. You probably are a nationalist I expect.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But you'd be British if it wasn't for RA. Or maybe that's what you'd prefer?



Yeah, thanks for all the maimings, murders, bombing campaigns, 'RA. We're so proud of you, every last one of us. Because you truly, truly represent what being Irish is all about.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But they're republicans not Nationalists. You probably are a nationalist I expect.



Anyone who kills and maims people in the name of Ireland or the UK can fuck right off. Be they IRA, UDA, paramilitary or Paras.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Anyone who kills and maims people in the name of Ireland or the UK can fuck right off. Be they IRA, UDA, paramilitary or Paras.



Even in self defence?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Even in self defence?



What like; English Defence League?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> What like; English Defence League?



Why who occupied them?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Why who occupied them?



I dunno - you're the British person here - you all support the EDL. No?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I dunno - you're the British person here - you all support the EDL. No?



English means British?


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 14, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But they're republicans not Nationalists. You probably are a nationalist I expect.



His petty nationalism has come out before now, and goes hand-in-hand with his barely concealed contempt for any Northerners who've shown reluctance to doff their cap to their betters.


----------



## rekil (Dec 14, 2016)

So macho.



			
				casuallyredbrown said:
			
		

> big polish lads make up a large percentage of my work colleagues . They arent exactly what youd call big on the oul socialism . One informed me last week on seeing my marshall tito t shirt that he liked me but usually felt it was a good idea to kill communists before they had the chance to get organised and the inevitable happened . I took it as a compliment , which given his stature wa a wise option.


As legendary songstress comrade Sinitta put it 





> I don't want no seven stone weakling
> Or a boy who thinks he's a socialist
> But spends his life obsessing about "poofters"
> And seeking the approval of fash



Justin Barrett has tried to launch a new nationalist party in Ireland, The National Party. Same guff as usual but nothing quite this mental.



			
				casuallyredbrown said:
			
		

> Ulster is the kosovo of the Irish nation and civilisation as far as im concerned . When what constitutes the centre of the limp wristed Irish nation today was the english pale of dublin and meath. Ulster was where our nationhood , gaelic civilisation and resistance was stongest . Ulster was where our only hope of freedom sprung from , where our national leadership and existance sprung from , our nation itself was conserved there.
> Any king of Ireland had to be married there



The pointy bit of the logo seems to be pointing the wrong way unless they're going for the rune vibe or something.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2016)

Where's the first quote from?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 14, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> The purportedly Protestant murdering scum as well as the purportedly Roman Catholic.


Shankhill butchers. They knew who they were and where they lived and drank, they just didn't give a shit. It was a playground for 14nth int. to hone counter insurgency techniques.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Dec 14, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> what being Irish is all about.


----------



## rekil (Dec 14, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


>


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

I wanted to relish Joe Owens' take on this but apparently his YouTube account has been pulled.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

The stormfront thread has also been pulled.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 15, 2016)

jimmer said:


> If they were sensible



Yeah..but no..but yeah...no


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 15, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> most sensible groups




Yeah but no..but..yeah.no..but


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 15, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> There isn't a pressing need to ban NA, it is just theatre. The state has a tonne of methods at its disposal to crack down on small groups and it has the resources to do it too. As others have said, they can ban NA and tick the box of "having done something". Then watch the ripples of recrimination spread across the far right pond.
> 
> My guess would be that _if_ they had a shopping list that they would also try and ban some Islamic groups or if they were particularly desperate they could find some people who are supporting anyone who goes out to fight ISIS on the basis that they are connected to weaponry in some way. Or manufacture some spurious group connected to the Informal Anarchists or whoever the fuck they were?



They will come after some leftists after this . Sure as shit . Balance the books.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 15, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> Imperialism was long before my time, the murdering scum calling themselves Irish nationalists were not. BTW, both sides. The purportedly Protestant murdering scum as well as the purportedly Roman Catholic.
> 
> By your example, we should be chiding the Italians for murdering Boadicea.



Imperialism in Ireland is happening now . It'll be there still when you've long shuffled off . And after I have . Hopefully my great grand kids will consign it to history's dustbin . Were you'll inhabit, like Oscar the fucking grouch .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 15, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> Imperialism was long before my time, the murdering scum calling themselves Irish nationalists were not. BTW, both sides. The purportedly Protestant murdering scum as well as the purportedly Roman Catholic.
> 
> By your example, we should be chiding the Italians for murdering Boadicea.



No we should be chiding your side for arming and directing the loyalists , leading to the slaughter of hundreds of innocents in the las t. Few decades .

Worth remembering the biggest terrorist organisation in the united kingdom was/ is the UDA . Despite horrific slaughter for decades they only got proscribed  in the 1990s . After they fucked up and posted all the British army files they had at their disposal all over the shankill rd and phoned the media to take pictures . That in turn exposed Brian Nelson, the guy who was sending them to their overwhelmingly innocent targets . Who was working directly for the FRU , a soldier inserted by them at the top of the UDA . His handlers answered directly to the British cabinet . That's who was supplying the files , directing him to direct the death squads . They were proscribed solely because the cabinet was embarrassed . But almost nobody ever gets convicted for membership . Despite numerous people to this day openly referring to themselves as UDA members and leaders .

Imperialisms alive and well and will outlive both of us .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> An Irish national who wishes he wasn't.



The fervent  wish that he wasn't is pretty much the only thing he has in common with his estranged countrymen .


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> English means British?



Irish means IRA support?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> His petty nationalism has come out before now, and goes hand-in-hand with his barely concealed contempt for any Northerners who've shown reluctance to doff their cap to their betters.



My contempt crosses all borders for those who use violence as a means to achieve their ambitions. Be they paramilitaries or parachute regiments.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> The fervent  wish that he wasn't is pretty much the only thing he has in common with his estranged countrymen .



I'm Irish, a chara. Despite your best attempts to paint me as otherwise.

You, on the other hand, have consistently dismissed Ireland and the people of Ireland here over the years. Hand in hand with your homophobia - see the referendum on gay marriage - and comments such as  "the limp wristed Irish nation today".






You hate Ireland more than your loyalist countrymen.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


>



Indeed. The post was a very cynical, sarcastic reply to the poster who suggests the IRA are the saviours of Ireland and I should be grateful to them. They aren't and I'm not.


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 15, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Shankhill butchers. They knew who they were and where they lived and drank, they just didn't give a shit. It was a playground for 14nth int. to hone counter insurgency techniques.



Indeed, although there are far more clear-cut examples of the state being directly responsible for political violence in Northern Ireland and of collusion between the state and loyalist paramilitaries. krtek a houby 's constant dismissal of all republican violence, as no more than knuckle-dragging ultra-nationalism strips all this context away, as does Sasaferrato 's version of events being about those violent paddies, who are all as bad as each other - green or orange. Just reconstructing the sequence of events from the late 1960s onwards doesn't fit with either of these narratives. This cycle of Violence emerged from the suppression of a popular movement for civil rights, in a deeply sectarian polity within the political control  of the United Kingdom. You don't need to uncritically support every instance of republican violence, or republican politics more generally to recognise this. What was wrong with Northern Ireland in the 1960s? How did the British State and the local ruling class respond to the demand for change? How did the conflict become militarised? How was the conflict policed? Any serious assessment of the troubles would offer a more accurate account of this history.

I went to school with kids who saw there fathers killed by paramilitary death squads, with a close and murky relationship to the military. I went to school with kids who were beaten and threatened by squaddies during their childhood because their fathers were republican prisoners. I had female relatives threatened with being strip searched because they politely questioned a police officers judgement, while going about their daily business. My family had neighbours whose children were the victims of extrajudicial assassinations by the state. I feel deeply ambivalent about the history of Irish Republicanism, and any politics based around the nation state for that matter. You don't see me posting links to videos of the Wolfe Tones playing _The Men behind the Wire_ or waxing lyrical about the Wild Geese on Urban, but it sticks in my craw when my people are represented as inherently violent animals. Those who turned towards violence did so in response to violence and injustice in there daily lives. Any judgment of their actions and the consequences of these actions needs to start off by recognising these facts and considering the possibility that some of the choices they made might have had some legitimacy. In reality, their politics were closer to those of Nelson Mandela than National Action, something he public acknowledged the day he stepped free from prison, which isn't to suggest that they should be above criticism.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Irish means IRA support?



You were liberated by them. Seems churlish not to. No idea what the EDL have done to deserve recognition?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You were liberated by them. Seems churlish not to. No idea what the EDL have done to deserve recognition?



The IRA did not liberate Ireland. Unless you're trying to equate them with the men and women of 1916. Very, very different.

Do you really think all Irish people support the murder gangs that operated up until the GFA?

Do you support the IRA?


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 15, 2016)

'Your loyalist countrymen', not 'ours', 'yours'. 'You' live with them, in 'your' country, not my problem, I'm alright jack. Here's the nationalism at play. It's not the Irish, it's those uncouth thugs in the North, who live in the United Kingdom. We have a nation, with borders, and a state and we will guard them: blue-shirt nationalism. It's also ironic that krtek a houby seems oblivious to how imperialism and partition might have contributed to the social conservatism in Ireland, North and South. Or, how Sinn Fein might not have an umblemished record on these issues, but was way ahead of the other parties (North and South) on , say, women's reproductive freedom in the 1980s. Something Irish Republican women fought for.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 15, 2016)

The main British state had a policy of effectively hands off ulster till it all blew up and then seem surprised with what the fuck had been going on the army used to call it sleepy hollow and mostly and excuse for shooting and fishing.
their was no grand  strategy not that PIRA were any more clued up they seriously thought the British were going to surrender at the talks and the loyalists frankly no clue at all


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> 'You're loyalist countrymen', not 'ours', 'yours'. 'You' live with them, in 'your' country, not my problem, I'm alright jack.



The flip side to Casually Red's dismissal of the Republic and the people that live there.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 15, 2016)

Ulster was a playground for the sort of spook that likes that sort of thing and a dumping ground for others.
 the real career focus was chasing the Russians with the rather cynical suggestion was the IRA made for good live training


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> The flip side to Casually Red's dismissal of the Republic and the people that live there.



You're no better than the German anti-Deutsch I once saw waving an Israeli flag as they attacked a Kurd on an anti-fascist demo for wearing a keffiyeh.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> 'Your loyalist countrymen', not 'ours', 'yours'. 'You' live with them, in 'your' country, not my problem, I'm alright jack. Here's the nationalism at play. It's not the Irish, it's those uncouth thugs in the North, who live in the United Kingdom. We have a nation, with borders, and a state and we will guard them: blue-shirt nationalism. It's also ironic that krtek a houby seems oblivious to how imperialism and partition might have contributed to the social conservatism in Ireland, North and South. Or, how Sinn Fein might not have an umblemished record on these issues, but was way ahead of the other parties (North and South) on , say, women's reproductive freedom in the 1980s. Something Irish Republican women fought for.



Replying to your edit (and I was sure you had me on ignore):

I give Sinn Fein the benefit of the doubt these days; they have some very good TDs and councillors in the Republic who are doing excellent work for the communities. They believe in inclusivity and I have no problem with them as a democratic party. I can count amongst my friends a prominent SF member, so it's not all black and white.

But I'll never ever raise a glass to murderers. Be they Irish, British or whoever.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> The IRA did not liberate Ireland. Unless you're trying to equate them with the men and women of 1916. Very, very different.



Different in what way?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> You're no better than the German anti-Deutsch I once saw waving an Israeli flag as they attacked a Kurd on an anti-fascist demo for wearing a keffiyeh.



Isn't it grand craic altogether when us Irish lads get their willys out to see who's more Irish than the rest?

And I say "lads", lads because it is a very blokey thing.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Different in what way?



Do you support the IRA; you know, the people who brought you Eniskillent, Warrington etc?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Do you support the IRA; you know, the people who brought you Eniskillent, Warrington etc?



Are you suggesting the 'men and women of 1916' who liberated your country didn't form the IRA?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)




----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)




----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are you suggesting the 'men and women of 1916' who liberated your country didn't form the IRA?



You still haven't answered my question. Do you support the IRA?

Or maybe you support the lads that brought you Omagh? I mean, yes, technically, it was the "Real IRA" but you seem to think that these thugs share a glorious history with the men and women of 1916...


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are you suggesting the 'men and women of 1916' who liberated your country didn't form the IRA?


michael collins, out in 1916, was never in the ira i see


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)




----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> You still haven't answered my question. Do you support the IRA?
> 
> Or maybe you support the lads that brought you Omagh? I mean, yes, technically, it was the "Real IRA" but you seem to think that these thugs share a glorious history with the men and women of 1916...



Glorious history? I thought you didn't raise a glass to armed struggle?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Glorious history? I thought you didn't raise a glass to armed struggle?



Do you support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person?


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 15, 2016)

I'm not willy-waving so put yours away. I have you on ignore, but clicked 'show ignored content' because I was concerned for Magnus McGinty's mental health as he appeared to be talking to himself in an increasingly frustrated manner. It's easier to play to the gallery about Casually Red's social attitudes on other issues than to tackle the serious questions about the causes of political violence in Ireland. Instead  you wash your hands of it, and police the political boarders  of who is and isn't Irish with snide remarks about 'your country' in the North. It's hypocritical bollocks and it's victim blaming - or at least blaming those who've shown reluctance to be victims.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> I'm not willy-waving so put yours away. I have you on ignore, but clicked 'show ignored content' because I was concerned for Magnus McGinty's mental health as he appeared to be talking to himself in an increasingly frustrated manner. It's easier to play to the gallery about Casually Red's social attitudes on other issues than to tackle the serious questions about the causes of political violence in Ireland. Instead  you wash your hands of it, and police the political boarders  of who is and isn't Irish with snide remarks about 'your country' in the North. It's hypocritical bollocks and it's victim blaming - or at least blaming those who've shown reluctance to be victims.



"I have you on ignore, but..."

Lol.

CR has for years, derided those who don't see things his way, as somehow not being Irish. He and this Magnus character are doing it in this very thread. But somehow those snide remarks can be excused.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Do you support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person?



I believe it's illegal to support the IRA.
I would if I was Irish given they liberated my country though.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I believe it's illegal to support the IRA.
> I would if I was Irish given they liberated my country though.



Still haven't answered the question. Do _you_ support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person?

Do you think every Irish person supports the IRA?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

I have answered your question.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I have answered your question.



Nope, some wishy washy tat about it being illegal to support them. 

So, again - do _you _support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person? Do you think all Irish people support the IRA? Do you support the Real IRA? Do you believe that the events of 1916 are entirely compatible with Warrington, Eniskillen or Omagh? Do you think Irish people are thankful for those and other attacks carried out in their name?


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> The UDA, The IRA and all the other paramilitary boys gangs. Engaging in peaceful means is just way too sissy for them. Much better to slaughter innocents.
> 
> There's scant difference between all these flag waving boy bands. But I guess there's always going to be groupies...









So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's _Only the River's Run Free_? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read _Tell them Everything _by Margaretta _D'Arcy_; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Nope, some wishy washy tat about it being illegal to support them.
> 
> So, again - do _you _support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person? Do you think all Irish people support the IRA? Do you support the Real IRA? Do you believe that the events of 1916 are entirely compatible with Warrington, Eniskillen or Omagh? Do you think Irish people are thankful for those and other attacks carried out in their name?



What has this to do with a thread I started about National Action?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What has this to do with a thread I started about National Action?



You are Alice from _The Good Terrorist_ & I claim my five pounds.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's _Only the River's Run Free_? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read _Tell them Everything _by Margaretta _D'Arcy_; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...



Whataboutery.

Where are all the female Republicans on urban? Why is it always a handful of lads, trying to get one over the other fella? 

I'd take it more seriously if it wasn't the same old suspects.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's _Only the River's Run Free_? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read _Tell them Everything _by Margaretta _D'Arcy_; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...


not to mention the auld ladies land league of the land war era. or cumann na mban


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's _Only the River's Run Free_? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read _Tell them Everything _by Margaretta _D'Arcy_; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2016)

Anyways, got to rush off for a bit. 



Tiocfaidh ar


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Whataboutery.
> 
> Where are all the female Republicans on urban? Why is it always a handful of lads, trying to get one over the other fella?
> 
> I'd take it more seriously if it wasn't the same old suspects.



Women in having something more important to do with their time than talking shit about politics on the internet shocker! But, why play the ball when you can play the man? Eh! You're a complacent bigoted fool who hasn't been able to make a coherent response to a single point I've raised.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> You are Alice from _The Good Terrorist_ & I claim my five pounds.



Seriously if you're so interested in the IRA then why not start your own thread about it instead of hijacking this one?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> Women in having something more important to do with their time than talking shit about politics on the internet shocker! But, why play the ball when you can play the man? Eh! You're a complacent bigoted fool who hasn't been able to make a coherent response to a single point I've raised.


And not just you I bet


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Anyways, got to rush off for a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Tiocfaidh ar



Do you have anything insightful to add about National Action other than 'they remind me of the IRA' you obsessive crank?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Nope, some wishy washy tat about it being illegal to support them.
> 
> So, again - do _you _support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person? Do you think all Irish people support the IRA? Do you support the Real IRA? Do you believe that the events of 1916 are entirely compatible with Warrington, Eniskillen or Omagh? Do you think Irish people are thankful for those and other attacks carried out in their name?



Yes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I believe it's illegal to support the IRA.
> I would if I was Irish given they liberated my country though.


not so sure they liberated it, in that the post-1922 state did not in all ways live up to its name of 'irish free state'.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> not so sure they liberated it, in that the post-1922 state did not in all ways live up to its name of 'irish free state'.



Liberated it from British imperialist rule then.  Or part of the country anyway.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Liberated it from British imperialist rule then.  Or part of the country anyway.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

I agree with that point.


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Look at the eejits in their little uniforms. Reminds me of the nationalists back in Ireland. The boys in their military garb. Fuck nationalism and fuck flag waving.



Here's krtek a houby's first intervention on a thread about a group on the British far right, a political milieu with multiple links to Ulster Loyalism and one which has repeatedly been courageously confronted by street activists who have included republicans among their ranks. But these neo-nazis must be right eejits, since they remind him of Irish Nationalists (he means Republicans, which suggests that he is either being dishonest or is completely out of his depth). In either case it suggests a very crude understanding of nationalism.

The distinction drawn by Benedict Anderson, a thinker not known for his sympathy for Irish Republicanism, between civic nationalism and folk nationalism might help clear things up for him. The former may well be a social construct, as Anderson argues in the go-to book on the social construction of nationalism,* but it is a different beast from the latter. Whatever its flaws, it has more to do with the legacy of the French Revolution, 1848 etc. than with Nazi fascism, which might explain the place held by Northern prods of the United Irishmen in the Republican pantheon (alongside Robert Emmet, Erskine Childers, Roger Casement, Ronnie Bunting...). The hard lessons to confront Irish Republicans from their own history are more akin to the twentieth-century legacy of left-wing politics and national liberation struggles around the world than the dangers of blood and soil nationalism. But krtek a houby probably wouldn't get to feel so smug if he pointed to the mess in South Africa** or Palestine** and go: 'Ha! That reminds me of the poor fuckers living on the other side of the Island I was born on.'


* i.e. The sort of material krtek a houby should lap up if he wants to seem informed without having his worldview challenged.

** Both of these are also weak analogies, but at least they have the merit of being linked through Empire, common politics, occasional acts of solidarity, and a shared moment that promised resolution but ended more (Palestine) or less (South Africa?) in disappointment.


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Liberated it from British imperialist rule then.  Or part of the country anyway.



I think the impact Brexit could have on the whole island is a good reminder of the limits to the South's political freedom: a point that has ironically enough induced an apoplexy of vile and bigoted nationalistic rage in krtek a houby on more than one occasion.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are you suggesting the 'men and women of 1916' who liberated your country didn't form the IRA?


show me the man


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> Indeed, although there are far more clear-cut examples of the state being directly responsible for political violence in Northern Ireland and of collusion between the state and loyalist paramilitaries. krtek a houby 's constant dismissal of all republican violence, as no more than knuckle-dragging ultra-nationalism strips all this context away, as does Sasaferrato 's version of events being about those violent paddies, who are all as bad as each other - green or orange. Just reconstructing the sequence of events from the late 1960s onwards doesn't fit with either of these narratives. This cycle of Violence emerged from the suppression of a popular movement for civil rights, in a deeply sectarian polity within the political control  of the United Kingdom. You don't need to uncritically support every instance of republican violence, or republican politics more generally to recognise this. What was wrong with Northern Ireland in the 1960s? How did the British State and the local ruling class respond to the demand for change? How did the conflict become militarised? How was the conflict policed? Any serious assessment of the troubles would offer a more accurate account of this history.
> 
> I went to school with kids who saw there fathers killed by paramilitary death squads, with a close and murky relationship to the military. I went to school with kids who were beaten and threatened by squaddies during their childhood because their fathers were republican prisoners. I had female relatives threatened with being strip searched because they politely questioned a police officers judgement, while going about their daily business. My family had neighbours whose children were the victims of extrajudicial assassinations by the state. I feel deeply ambivalent about the history of Irish Republicanism, and any politics based around the nation state for that matter. You don't see me posting links to videos of the Wolfe Tones playing _The Men behind the Wire_ or waxing lyrical about the Wild Geese on Urban, but it sticks in my craw when my people are represented as inherently violent animals. Those who turned towards violence did so in response to violence and injustice in there daily lives. Any judgment of their actions and the consequences of these actions needs to start off by recognising these facts and considering the possibility that some of the choices they made might have had some legitimacy. In reality, their politics were closer to those of Nelson Mandela than National Action, something he public acknowledged the day he stepped free from prison, which isn't to suggest that they should be above criticism.



You make some good points, and having read Ann Cadwallader's book, I am certainly not going to say that the British Army's behaviour in NI was completely honourable, it is very clear that it was not. From that book, it is also clear that members of the police service, not only condoned Protestant violence, they took part in it.

There were plenty of 'knuckle draggers' on the Republican side, I met quite a few of them. It wasn't until considerably later that it occurred to me that I met many fewer Protestant 'knuckle draggers'. I now know why, I didn't then.

Northern Ireland was a stain on Britain's character, not because it was 'Imperialist', as the deluded Magnus appears to think (Northern Ireland is British by choice), but because the British Government colluded with Protestant murderers. This was shameful, and those responsible have not been brought to much deserved justice.

I can understand the bitterness expressed in your post, in a very much smaller way, the independence referendum in Scotland has divided families, and destroyed friendships. We don't however, have people murdered simply because they belong to the wrong faith, and that really is the crux. The people of Northern Ireland are not inherently violent animals, in the main. Animals isn't a description I often use to describe human beings, but actions by both Republican and Protestant groups brought them into that category. No matter how imbalanced society seems to be, it does not condone the acts of murder and torture enacted by the thugs. To drag a mother out of her house, in front of her children, then proceed to murder her, _on the suspicion _that she may have been an informer*, is so beyond the pale it defies comprehension. It was the act of barbarous animals.

The acts of those on both sides who planted bombs, carried out extra-judicial executions and maimed by destroying their victims knees, cannot be excused. Not now, not ever. It would also seem that some of those animals with bloody hands are now in government.**

*Murder of Jean McConville - Wikipedia
**Did Gerry Adams order this mother's murder? An IRA man claimed he has | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

You really are dense.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

Totally ignores that the six counties were part of Ireland when it got colonised by the British Empire and makes some daft comparison with Scotland that ignores the social relations and class make up of both sides of the troubles.


----------



## 8den (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> So krtek a houby tell me about Irish Republicanism and masculinity. What did you make of Eileen Fairweather's _Only the River's Run Free_? Or, what about that feminist conference in London during the late 1970s, when the women from Belfast got turned back at the border? (What border I hear you say- I thought the lived in the United Kingdom?). The support for the Armagh women that emerged afterwards from the British Women's Movement was a bit strange given that the IRA's such a boys club. Did you read _Tell them Everything _by Margaretta _D'Arcy_; she really didn't make Armagh seem like a boys club. What about Mairéad Farrell, Bernadette Devlin, the Price sisters...



Considering the shameful behaviour of the IRA towards women, like; murdering Jean Mc Conville, the intimidation of the McCartney sisters, the cover-up of sex abusers like Liam Adams, I really wouldn't be touting the IRA's past a feminist organisation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

8den said:


> Considering the shameful behaviour of the IRA towards women, like; murdering Jean Mc Conville, the intimidation of the McCartney sisters, the cover-up of sex abusers like Liam Adams, I really wouldn't be touting the IRA's past a feminist organisation.


i hope you wouldn't be touting at all.


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 15, 2016)

8den said:


> ... I really wouldn't be touting the IRA's past a feminist organisation.



Where did I say that you clown? My point was that representing Irish Republicanism as some sort of 'boys club' overlooked the prominent role women played in this movement and the solidarity that the wider women's movement offered them. Just like spamming a thread about a neo-Nazi organisation in Britain with bullshit about Irish Republicanism erases the point of this thread. Now why would you want to do that?


----------



## 8den (Dec 15, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> Where did I say that you clown? My point was that representing Irish Republicanism as some sort of 'boys club' overlooked the prominent role women played in this movement and the solidarity that the wider women's movement offered them. Just like spamming a thread about a neo-Nazi organisation in Britain with bullshit about Irish Republicanism erases the point of this thread. Now why would you want to do that?



You were lauding the IRA's record as a progressive feminist pro woman movement, and there are thousands of woman who would disagree.


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 16, 2016)

8den said:


> You were lauding the IRA's record as a progressive feminist pro woman movement, and there are thousands of woman who would disagree.



Why do you and your mate insist on banging on about the IRA on a thread about British neo-Nazis? All I have tried to do is point out that demonising Republicans as some sort of monsters, who are collectively responsible for all the shit that has happened in the six counties over the last half century is bullshit. I've used quite a lot of qualifying language in my posts - you and your mate are the ones trying to paint everything in black and white with sweeping generalisations.


----------



## 8den (Dec 16, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> Why do you and your mate insist on banging on about the IRA on a thread about British neo-Nazis? All I have tried to do is point out that demonising Republicans as some sort of monsters, who are collectively responsible for all the shit that has happened in the six counties over the last half century is bullshit. I've used quite a lot of qualifying language in my posts - you and your mate are the ones trying to paint everything in black and white with sweeping generalisations.



Physician Heal thyself.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

8den said:


> Physician Heal thyself.



Have you got anything insightful to say about National Action or do you fancy fucking off instead?
There's some seriously weird obsessive cranks on this board who choose to try and turn a conversation about white supremacists into one slating national liberation fighters.
Do I assume you support neo nazis given you don't give a fuck about this thread?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

Sasaferrato 
krtek a houby 
8den 

You are white neo Nazi sympathisers?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Seriously if you're so interested in the IRA then why not start your own thread about it instead of hijacking this one?



Er, I made a comparison. Then you came in with a load of ill informed guff & refused to answer any questions.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Sasaferrato
> krtek a houby
> 8den
> 
> You are white neo Nazi sympathisers?




Yes. It's in every post I've ever made. The evidence is overwhelming.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Have you got anything insightful to say about National Action or do you fancy fucking off instead?
> There's some seriously weird obsessive cranks on this board who choose to try and turn a conversation about white supremacists into one slating national liberation fighters.
> Do I assume you support neo nazis given you don't give a fuck about this thread?



Very much give a fuck. I made a comparison to another bunch of headcases who threaten and hate people & you took it and ran. For pages and pages for your own amusement.

I was quite happy to leave it with the comparison but no, the faithful IRA fanboys had to dick about.

National Action, the provos, the UDA and all their apologists - all scum. Hope that makes it clear enough for you, Alice.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> I think the impact Brexit could have on the whole island is a good reminder of the limits to the South's political freedom: a point that has ironically enough induced an apoplexy of vile and bigoted nationalistic rage in krtek a houby on more than one occasion.



Calling out murderers for what they are = vile and bigoted nationalistic rage.

LOL.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Er, I made a comparison. Then you came in with a load of ill informed guff & refused to answer any questions.



I did answer your questions.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> Why do you and your mate insist on banging on about the IRA on a thread about British neo-Nazis? All I have tried to do is point out that demonising Republicans as some sort of monsters, who are collectively responsible for all the shit that has happened in the six counties over the last half century is bullshit. I've used quite a lot of qualifying language in my posts - you and your mate are the ones trying to paint everything in black and white with sweeping generalisations.



That's nice but you missed the bit where I mentioned the loyalists, the British army and so on.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I did answer your questions.



Lies. You posted and posted like some demented troll, suggesting all Irish people should be grateful for the IRA. 

Then you posted this.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Very much give a fuck. I made a comparison to another bunch of headcases who threaten and hate people & you took it and ran. For pages and pages for your own amusement.
> 
> I was quite happy to leave it with the comparison but no, the faithful IRA fanboys had to dick about.
> 
> National Action, the provos, the UDA and all their apologists - all scum. Hope that makes it clear enough for you, Alice.


No, you got exactly what you wanted when you made that first pointless post. A big row with you at the centre of it, and a few more enemies made to allow you to do the same next time you feel like it. A few more grudges and a few more people you can leap on in unrelated threads to keep the circle going.

You killed a thread about an issue that actually concerns how people are going to organise against racist attacks, the attacks that you claim are following and increasing due to brexit. You've killed discussion about how this organisation will have to relate to the state and you've killed debate about the limits of political dissent in modern society and the limits of legal interference.

I'm so glad you post here.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)




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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

I can see why you've got them on ignore. You just got served.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

You killed the thread with your relentless trolling. And your disgusting racist stereotyping of all Irish people being IRA supporters. 

I wouldn't worry about mr apron; he's been desperate to get my attention for several years - sometimes he stops and harrasses other posters - one of whom has had to take a break from posting here because of his incessant bullying.

Brave boys. Well done.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> You killed the thread with your relentless trolling. And your disgusting racist stereotyping of all Irish people being IRA supporters.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about mr apron; he's been desperate to get my attention for several years - sometimes he stops and harrasses other posters - one of whom has had to take a break from posting here because of his incessant bullying.
> 
> Brave boys. Well done.


I genuinely couldn't care less about you. I know your game. All regular posters do now. For example, this from the _3 positives from your day _thread:



And this on day when you threatened to _kill yourself_ if i posted on here again.

Now, enough attention from me.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

Look you've had your arse handed to you this morning and presumably many other times given how many people you have on ignore. I suggest you now make yourself scarce rather than embarrass yourself further.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> View attachment 97213 Look you've had your arse handed to you this morning and presumably many other times given how many people you have on ignore. I suggest you now make yourself scarce rather than embarrass yourself further.



Still trolling you racist little fuck? And here was me thinking you wanted to discuss the topic. You don't - you just want your moment in the spotlight. Eager to please the lads.

And 5 people on ignore out of thousands is nothing. You and your band of merry men (and it will always be men) are nothing. Get a sense of perspective.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Still trolling you racist little fuck? And here was me thinking you wanted to discuss the topic. You don't - you just want your moment in the spotlight. Eager to please the lads.



You're suggesting I derailed my own thread?
I don't have time for babies who attention seek then put people on ignore when they can't cope with the heat. Please leave the thread.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You're suggesting I derailed my own thread?
> I don't have time for babies who attention seek then put people on ignore when they can't cope with the heat. Please leave the thread.



Your first post - _Not that I support the state banning of groups it'll be nice not to keep seeing that baby faced cunt keep appearing on my social media feed when news orgs have been giving them free publicity.
_
Now, besides having an obssession with babies - you mention the banning of *groups*. Someone else mentioned Anjem Choudhury. And yet you flew into full racist rage because one Irish person mentioned *another* group. Heresy!

Now it's the personal ad hominems. Hardly surprising, after your complete and absolute failure (page after page) to answer any questions and back up your racist remarks how Irish people should support the IRA.

I know you're still new here and are desperately seeking the approval of the alpha males but you could make it less obvious.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

Anjem Choudury is a clerical fascist. That's the relevance. Republicans aren't fascists so it's just an off topic obsession being shoe horned into the thread by an attention seeking crank.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Anjem Choudury is a clerical fascist. That's the relevance. Republicans aren't fascists so it's just an off topic obsession being shoe horned into the thread by an attention seeking crank.



You clearly know nothing about the provos. Doesn't surprise me. The very fact that you can't distinguish between the IRB, the provisional IRA and the Real IRA is quite telling.

As for attention seeking; why did you bump the _UK votes to leave EU thread_ (thread has been dead since july) a few minutes ago with more racist bollocks? Is it because your foolishness has been rumbled here?  

Seriously, why are you following me around? I've been here 13 years; I'm not leaving any time soon, despite your pathetic efforts. You IRA supporters are just going to have to accept your critics aren't going to be silenced.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

I suggest we all just talk over the top of this clown, if the thread can be salvaged.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2016)

Get lost krtek a houby, ffs, you boring
shit stirrer. 

This thread was ok until you fucked it up, as per usual. 

Away and fuck off


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Get lost krtek a houby, ffs, you boring
> shit stirrer.
> 
> This thread was ok until you fucked it up, as per usual.
> ...


well said, pa


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 16, 2016)

8den said:


> Physician Heal thyself.



I've looked back through my posts on this thread and while I've got caught up in the little derail, krtek a houby and yourself have indulged in, I began by trying to point out why a crude comparison of National Action with Irish Republicanism is facile, whatever the flaws of the latter. I've also ended by repeatedly suggesting we get back on track. Neither of you have shown the common sense or good grace to either seriously engage with the points I've made, or to let the matter lie. It is telling that Sasaferrato's response was more considered than either of yours, given his personal experience and our different perspectives.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Still trolling you racist little fuck? And here was me thinking you wanted to discuss the topic. You don't - you just want your moment in the spotlight. Eager to please the lads.
> 
> And 5 people on ignore out of thousands is nothing. You and your band of merry men (and it will always be men) are nothing. Get a sense of perspective.



Fuck off you attention seeking cunt.


----------



## andysays (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> View attachment 97210


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> ... You IRA supporters are just going to have to accept your critics aren't going to be silenced.



Here's the rub. This thread wasn't about the IRA, but you felt the need to make it about them in a way that you knew would be provocatively disruptive. Just like you enjoy twisting discussions about Northern Ireland into two-dimensional ones about gender politics or sexuality, so that you can play to the gallery. It's narcissistic behaviour that does a disservice to a serious discussion of any of these issues. It is telling that posters who hold a range of opinions on Irish Republicanism are all telling you where to go.

---------------------------------

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation to edit this post to include an image of a 'fascist' mural from Belfast (after some of the likes):







Perhaps we can view it as an illustration of why Sinn Féin's politics might not necessarily belong on a thread about neo Nazis in Britain, rather than an attempt to celebrate them uncritically or those of the ANC for that matter.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)

8den said:


> Physician Heal thyself.


get thee behind me, 8den


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)

national action graffiti found in hampstead pub 

National Action: Banned ‘neo-Nazi’ group graffiti found in Hampstead pub


----------



## Shechemite (Dec 16, 2016)

That will show ZOG what's what!


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 16, 2016)

I'm just relieved that it didn't include a message of solidarity to Black Lives Matter and a birthday greeting for Laurie Penny, otherwise I was going to feel pretty stupid.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Fuck off you attention seeking cunt.



Good for you.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> Here's the rub. This thread wasn't about the IRA, but you felt the need to make it about them in a way that you knew would be provocatively disruptive. Just like you enjoy twisting discussions about Northern Ireland into two-dimensional ones about gender politics or sexuality, so that you can play to the gallery. It's narcissistic behaviour that does a disservice to a serious discussion of any of these issues. It is telling that posters who hold a range of opinions on Irish Republicanism are all telling you where to go.
> 
> ---------------------------------
> 
> ...



Cherry picking, as per usual. You'll have conveniently ignored where I say I have no real problem with Sinn Fein and have praised their TDs.

My problem is with *murderers* - be it the IRA or the UDA or any of their splinter boy bands. And murderers include members of the armed forces and British state. All this I've mentioned before. Always ignored.

But you're right - the thread has well & truly been derailed by young Magnus, desperately seeking to impress the alphas - so I shouldn't have dared besmirch the beloved IRA by comparing them to other terrorist groups.


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 16, 2016)

...


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Cherry picking, as per usual...



I wasn't cherry picking, I was illustrating why your disruptive trolling was irrelevant (when you called another poster ignorant for distinguishing between the IRA and fascists).


eoin_k said:


> ...
> Perhaps we can view it as an illustration of why Sinn Féin's politics might not necessarily belong on a thread about neo Nazis in Britain, rather than an attempt to celebrate them uncritically or those of the ANC for that matter.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2016)

Fine. We've both made our points. I apologise for the derail & fair play to you for being patient and explaining your point of view.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Cherry picking, as per usual. You'll have conveniently ignored where I say I have no real problem with Sinn Fein and have praised their TDs.
> 
> My problem is with *murderers* - be it the IRA or the UDA or any of their splinter boy bands. And murderers include members of the armed forces and British state. All this I've mentioned before. Always ignored.
> 
> But you're right - the thread has well & truly been derailed by young Magnus, desperately seeking to impress the alphas - so I shouldn't have dared besmirch the beloved IRA by comparing them to other terrorist groups.



What makes you think you're older than me?


----------



## sealion (Dec 16, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> You killed the thread with your relentless trolling. And your disgusting racist stereotyping of all Irish people being IRA supporters.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about mr apron; he's been desperate to get my attention for several years - sometimes he stops and harrasses other posters - one of whom has had to take a break from posting here because of his incessant bullying.
> 
> Brave boys. Well done.


Bullshit.


----------



## chilango (Dec 16, 2016)

One thing that might useful to see if there are any parallels between armed Irish republicanism and groups like NA is to look at the response if proscribed Republican groups to their bans, what impact it had on their wider support networks etc. Can any of this be applied in the case of groups like NA?

I suspect not, but if we have to drag Ireland into it, then this is surely the area of interest?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 16, 2016)

chilango said:


> One thing that might useful to see if there are any parallels between armed Irish republicanism and groups like NA is to look at the response if proscribed Republican groups to their bans, what impact it had on their wider support networks etc. Can any of this be applied in the case of groups like NA?
> 
> I suspect not, but if we have to drag Ireland into it, then this is surely the area of interest?



It's my opinion that the entire proscription malarkey is merely a public marker - a way for the state to disavow what is still essentially a racist politics regarding dealing with terror and the threat of terror, and argue that "we're doing something" about *all* terrorists and crypto-terrorists. Given the sort of resources that the state has deployed against "Islamist Fundamentalists" in the last two decades, measured against the resources deployed against "home -grown" far right political fundamentalists - arguably a more immediate threat given their propensity for gathering arms and explosives - there is very obviously a scapegoating operation running in parallel with any terrorism or threat of terrorism by ethnic minorities. We saw it all through "The Troubles", with republicans as a political grouping being demonised alongside any actions by the IRA. It's a tried and trusted state formula. National Action's proscription is a publicity exercise to give a veneer of neutrality to the state's operations, while allowing the state to continue it's violence in the Middle East.


----------



## jimmer (Dec 16, 2016)

Mark Collett's thoughts on the NA ban are on YouTube - 



You can see why he was suggested as a future leader for the far-right at Larry Nunn/Western Spring's recent unity meeting.

I think one of the people in NA he's suggesting are only doing fascist activism to shit people up is Ben Raymond.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 16, 2016)

Anyway, to return to the original topic.

Having had a bit of a look at the ethos of this group, they well deserved being banned. I have strong doubts about them being banned as terrorists though, I think that gives them kudos that their minuscule membership does not deserve.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Dec 16, 2016)




----------



## Fozzie Bear (Dec 16, 2016)

Just tweeted by the Home Office. 

Statement

National Action becomes first extreme right-wing group to be banned in UK - Press releases - GOV.UK


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> View attachment 97251


i don't like seeing amber rudd staring at me


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Dec 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't like seeing amber rudd staring at me



She's got her best anti-fascist face on and all!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> She's got her best anti-fascist face on and all!


nonetheless if you're going to post pictures of her in future please make sure her eyes won't follow me round the room. it is most off-putting.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> nonetheless if you're going to post pictures of her in future please make sure her eyes won't follow me round the room. it is most off-putting.



Indeed. Put a 'Not safe for sanity' spoiler on it.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 16, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Just tweeted by the Home Office.
> 
> Statement
> 
> National Action becomes first extreme right-wing group to be banned in UK - Press releases - GOV.UK





> The Home Secretary took the decision to proscribe National Action prior to the trial of Thomas Mair, who was convicted and sentenced for the murder of Jo Cox MP.


wasn't because of the murder of an actual MP, honest


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Dec 16, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's my opinion that the entire proscription malarkey is merely a public marker - a way for the state to disavow what is still essentially a racist politics regarding dealing with terror and the threat of terror, and argue that "we're doing something" about *all* terrorists and crypto-terrorists. Given the sort of resources that the state has deployed against "Islamist Fundamentalists" in the last two decades, measured against the resources deployed against "home -grown" far right political fundamentalists - arguably a more immediate threat given their propensity for gathering arms and explosives - there is very obviously a scapegoating operation running in parallel with any terrorism or threat of terrorism by ethnic minorities. We saw it all through "The Troubles", with republicans as a political grouping being demonised alongside any actions by the IRA. It's a tried and trusted state formula. National Action's proscription is a publicity exercise to give a veneer of neutrality to the state's operations, while allowing the state to continue it's violence in the Middle East.



Interesting points - perhaps to explore the difference between macro and micro engagement with 'Islamic Fundamentalism' - especially within the contexts of domestic and international engagement - and where responsibility for engaging within such parameters might exist - would be a very useful thing.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

jimmer said:


> Mark Collett's thoughts on the NA ban are on YouTube -
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The trouble is he contradicts himself. Certainly presents himself as being clearly spoken and articulate, initially at least, he makes some scarily sensible points to begin with regarding NA. If he is leader material he would have cut the recording there and left it at that. But he continues onwards, presumably through the liking of the sound of his own voice, and drifts into 'people behind the curtain' land which is just dog whistles for far right cranks and conspiracy loons and will just confuse or scare off anyone of a more stable persuasion. Which is what he argues against doing in the first instance.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 16, 2016)

Does anybody on here seriously believe this same legislation won't be used against the Left?

Does anybody seriously believe that the actual _targets_ of this nonsense are not the Left?

Will we still be laughing when this happens?

Here are a few groups of yesteryear that would certainly have met the criteria. Hunts sabs. Class War. Red Action. Anti-Facsist Action.

NUM?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 16, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Does anybody on here seriously believe this same legislation won't be used against the Left?
> 
> Does anybody seriously believe that the actual _targets_ of this nonsense are not the Left?
> 
> ...



I haven't heard anyone on the left not draw these conclusions, although I'm in contact mostly with astute types.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 17, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I haven't heard anyone on the left not draw these conclusions, although I'm in contact mostly with astute types.



I would draw the attention of the right honourable gentleman to some of the loons above - and congratulate him on being flamed (well, more flanned) by the two biggest loons on these boards


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 17, 2016)

LiamO said:


> I would draw the attention of the right honourable gentleman to some of the loons above - and congratulate him on being flamed (well, more flanned) by the two biggest loons on these boards



I'm assuming those obsessives aren't on the left?


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 17, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Does anybody on here seriously believe this same legislation won't be used against the Left?
> 
> Does anybody seriously believe that the actual _targets_ of this nonsense are not the Left?
> 
> ...



Certainly I haven't seen anyone celebrating it. Mostly the attitude has been that it's a massive over reaction and has handed them a kudos they did nothing to earn.

Hunt sabbing is still alive and well BTW.


----------



## treelover (Dec 17, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Does anybody on here seriously believe this same legislation won't be used against the Left?
> 
> Does anybody seriously believe that the actual _targets_ of this nonsense are not the Left?
> 
> ...



The Cornflake Action?


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Dec 17, 2016)

A full list of proscribed terrorist organisations can be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ment_data/file/578385/201612_Proscription.pdf

For the proposition that NA are not the first right-wing terrorists to be banned:

The “Islamic State” and the counter-revolution – International Socialism

countered by:

Fascism and ISIS – International Socialism


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 17, 2016)

JuanTwoThree said:


> A full list of proscribed terrorist organisations can be found here:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ment_data/file/578385/201612_Proscription.pdf



It's rather ridiculous - they're slotted into a list of 'proscribed international terrorist groups'.



> National Action - Proscribed December 2016 National Action is a racist neo-Nazi group that was established in 2013. It has a number of branches across the UK, which conduct provocative street demonstrations and stunts aimed at intimidating local communities. Its activities and propaganda materials are particularly aimed at recruiting young people. The group is virulently racist, anti-Semitic and homophobic. Its ideology promotes the idea that Britain will inevitably see a violent ‘race war’, which the group claims it will be an active part of. The group rejects democracy, is hostile to the British state and seeks to divide society by implicitly endorsing violence against ethnic minorities and perceived ‘race traitors’ National Action’s online propaganda material, disseminated via social media, frequently features extremely violent imagery and language. It condones and glorifies those who have used extreme violence for political or ideological ends. This includes tweets posted by the group in 2016, in connection with the murder of Jo Cox(which the prosecutor described as a terrorist act), stating “Only 649 MPs to go” and a photo of Thomas Mair with the caption “don’t let this man’s sacrifice go in vain” and ”Jo Cox would have filled Yorkshire with more subhumans!”, as well as an image condoning and celebrating the terrorist attack on the Pulse nightclub in Orlando and another depicting a police officer’s throat being slit. *The images can reasonably be taken as inferring* that these acts should be emulated and therefore amount to the unlawful glorification of terrorism.



Apparently not proofed before publication.


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 17, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> It's rather ridiculous - they're slotted into a list of 'proscribed international terrorist groups'.
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently not proofed before publication.



NA have made a statement which intimates that they might try a legal challenge to the proscription.  Christ knows who'd represent them but they might win.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 17, 2016)

How do they do that if they're proscribed?


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 17, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> NA have made a statement which intimates that they might try a legal challenge to the proscription.  Christ knows who'd represent them but they might win.


There are loads of legal firms that would have no problem representing the far right, providing they thought they had a legal case. NA could get some more publicity from it.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Dec 17, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> How do they do that if they're proscribed?



There seems to be an appeal process which is detailed in section 3 of this:
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00815/SN00815.pdf


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 17, 2016)

'I wouldn't worry about mr apron; he's been desperate to get my attention ... sometimes he stops and harrasses other posters - one of whom has had to take a break from posting here because of his incessant bullying.' 
thatchers dustbin has been allowed to distribute abuse and hostility_ carte blanche_ which causes people to withdraw from posting or just leave U75 altogether. I have met some excellent people from off here but Bitches Condom is a self important pub bore who needs to boil his shorts and drown in the broth.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 17, 2016)

malatesta32 said:


> 'I wouldn't worry about mr apron; he's been desperate to get my attention ... sometimes he stops and harrasses other posters - one of whom has had to take a break from posting here because of his incessant bullying.'
> thatchers dustbin has been allowed to distribute abuse and hostility_ carte blanche_ which causes people to withdraw from posting or just leave U75 altogether. I have met some excellent people from off here but Bitches Condom is a self important pub bore who needs to boil his shorts and drown in the broth.



You're siding with that obsessive crank just to have a dig at someone?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Dec 17, 2016)

malatesta32 said:


> 'I wouldn't worry about mr apron; he's been desperate to get my attention ... sometimes he stops and harrasses other posters - one of whom has had to take a break from posting here because of his incessant bullying.'
> thatchers dustbin has been allowed to distribute abuse and hostility_ carte blanche_ which causes people to withdraw from posting or just leave U75 altogether. I have met some excellent people from off here but Bitches Condom is a self important pub bore who needs to boil his shorts and drown in the broth.



You would hope that militant anti-fascists would be able to handle a bit of robust online discussion?


----------



## LiamO (Dec 17, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> NA have made a statement which intimates that they might try a legal challenge to the proscription.  Christ knows who'd represent them but they might win.



Gareth Pierce would represent them and I personally would not be one bit surprised if she did. She would see this, I reckon as the thin end of wedge. A wedge that would be used in turn against progressive forces.

I heard her say as much at a Public Meeting in west Belfast in (I think) 1999.

She was asked, by an eternally grateful (to her) Republican ex-Prisoner as I recall, would she represent the 'rights' the BNP or a Nazi organisation. She replied 'Absolutely. Either we all have Civil Rights or nobody does'.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 17, 2016)

malatesta32 said:


> 'I wouldn't worry about mr apron; he's been desperate to get my attention ... sometimes he stops and harrasses other posters - one of whom has had to take a break from posting here because of his incessant bullying.'
> thatchers dustbin has been allowed to distribute abuse and hostility_ carte blanche_ which causes people to withdraw from posting or just leave U75 altogether. I have met some excellent people from off here but Bitches Condom is a self important pub bore who needs to boil his shorts and drown in the broth.



Context is everything malatesta32 . In this context BA was right on the money.


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 17, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Gareth Pierce would represent them and I personally would not be one bit surprised if she did. She would see this, I reckon as the thin end of wedge. A wedge that would be used in turn against progressive forces.
> 
> I heard her say as much at a Public Meeting in west Belfast in (I think) 1999.
> 
> She was asked, by an eternally grateful (to her) Republican ex-Prisoner as I recall, would she represent the 'rights' the BNP or a Nazi organisation. She replied 'Absolutely. Either we all have Civil Rights or nobody does'.



I'm not going to second guess Gareth Piercebridge so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

The problem for NA in a legal challenge is that in order to succeed they'll have to expose themselves as what they are. Rather than a nationalist fifth column they'll have to argue that they're basically far-right situationists, completely destroying any mystique they may have accumulated in the minds of the gullible.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 17, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> I'm not going to second guess Gareth Piercebridge so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
> 
> The problem for NA in a legal challenge is that in order to succeed they'll have to expose themselves as what they are. Rather than a nationalist fifth column they'll have to argue that they're basically far-right situationists, completely destroying any mystique they may have accumulated in the minds of the gullible.


Can't see how they would want to put forward a position that they are a nationalist fifth column, Mosley argued quite the opposite when they introduced internment for the BUF. The legal challenge would be whether or not they are engaged with , support or advocate terrorism. How would they argue the far right situationalist case that you mention?


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 17, 2016)

The39thStep said:


> Can't see how they would want to put forward a position that they are a nationalist fifth column, Mosley argued quite the opposite when they introduced internment for the BUF. The legal challenge would be whether or not they are engaged with , support or advocate terrorism. How would they argue the far right situationalist case that you mention?



If you can be bothered to wade through their stuff then they try to present as a guerilla army in training. That's exactly what'll get them proscribed.  So they'd have to argue that all the wilderness retreats, combat training etc was part of an elaborate show, a propaganda put on.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 17, 2016)

If not comedy.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 18, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> I'm not going to second guess Gareth Piercebridge so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
> 
> The problem for NA in a legal challenge is that in order to succeed they'll have to *expose themselves as what they are*.



A bunch of dicks? That should not be a proscribable offence


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 18, 2016)

LiamO said:


> A bunch of dicks?



Exactly.


----------



## rekil (Dec 18, 2016)

Could they go for the "airsoft team" defence or something. 

Hungarian nazi Istvan Gyorkos got arrested a couple of months ago. His boys like sneaking around abandoned buildings with their airsoft gear. Not much better at boxing though.



Spoiler


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2016)

***


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 18, 2016)

copliker said:


> Hungarian nazi Istvan Gyorkos got arrested a couple of months ago.



Ramblers With Attitude



> Peregrine Falcon Hiker AssociationBased in Győr, he founded the Hungarian National Socialist Action Group in 1989 (according to other sources, in January 1991), a fascist and neo-Nazi civil organization, which functioned under the cover of the Peregrine Falcon Hiker Association.


----------



## rekil (Dec 18, 2016)

Potholing And Pigeon Fanciers 1488 Club


----------



## Libertad (Dec 18, 2016)

Sicherheitsdienst soggy bottomers.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 18, 2016)

‘Minor Error’ heißt Treue


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 18, 2016)

chilango said:


> One thing that might useful to see if there are any parallels between armed Irish republicanism and groups like NA is to look at the response if proscribed Republican groups to their bans, what impact it had on their wider support networks etc. Can any of this be applied in the case of groups like NA?
> 
> I suspect not, but if we have to drag Ireland into it, then this is surely the area of interest?



I really don't think there's any useful comparison . The IRA in the 1918 21 period and the 71 onwards period pretty much emerged from the jails in many respects . from Frongoch and Long Kesh internment camps, we're very often innocent and previously mild mannered types got lobbed in with the hardcore . Jail tends to be their university , and just another front of the struggle . Very often it's prison campaigns that draw in supporters . Not just as regarding hunger strikes and the like but just the general week to week prisoner support . That draws in friends, relatives, other ex prisoners , stuff like that . whether onto demos , pickets or socials .
Republicans mostly ignored the various bannings by the state..and got sent to jail..but the sticks once introduced a title of convenience called " Republican clubs " to get around the banning of " official " sinn fein back in 1970 .

Modern Irish republicans have  a very long jail tradition to fall back on , from Anne Devlin onto the Fenians , onto Terence Mac Swiney ...literally hundreds of years of experience and tradition to fall back on ideologically and organisation wise . that has seen them through numerous adversities . And psychologically virtually everyone who commits themselves to revolutionary republicanism knows that jail is a certainty . They're prepared for it .
These shits ..in the main..don't have that either that tradition or mentality and just aren't prepared for it . Psychologically or ideologically . Not unless they were say..active criminals as well as fascists .

These twats probably won't survive very well in jail . And it's very difficult To see were they'll get the ideological motivation necessary to sustain themselves in that position . Finding oneself in jail due to having an irrational dislike of other people in fact may well cause a few of them to ponder and regret their antics .


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 19, 2016)

LiamO said:


> I would draw the attention of the right honourable gentleman to some of the loons above - and congratulate him on being flamed (well, more flanned) by the two biggest loons on these boards



Zzzzz

Ireland election 2016


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Nationalism is dodgy and vile. I was just remarking on how the boys with their uniforms remind me of back home. No big deal.



You seriously think that the IRA and National Action are the same thing? Not just politically but tactically too. Really?


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

Sasaferrato said:


> Imperialism was long before my time, the murdering scum calling themselves Irish nationalists were not. BTW, both sides. The purportedly Protestant murdering scum as well as the purportedly Roman Catholic.
> 
> By your example, we should be chiding the Italians for murdering Boadicea.



You do realise that there were protestants in the IRA too right?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Dec 20, 2016)

You do realise that it was 'The Special Branch'?


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> The UDA, The IRA and all the other paramilitary boys gangs. Engaging in peaceful means is just way too sissy for them. Much better to slaughter innocents.
> 
> There's scant difference between all these flag waving boy bands. But I guess there's always going to be groupies...



Would you include Cumman na mBan as a "boys gang"?  

On a serious note, what would your response be to a military occupation? As the name suggests, the IRA were not formed as a ''peaceful" organisation so why would they engage primarily in "peaceful" activity? Having said that, they did actually engage in "peaceful" activity a number of times. 

Interestingly "peaceful" methods were tried in the late 1960's and early 1970's and how did that work out? There was something about an event one Sunday in the early 1970's which answers that.

As for "innocents" (assuming you are referring to the IRA's 'victims' as a whole), if you class soldiers, police, prison officers and intelligence officers as "innocents" in a war fighting situation (because that is what it was) then you need to check your outlook.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 20, 2016)

Beats & Pieces said:


> You do realise that it was 'The Special Branch'?



You do realise it's 'bits & pieces'?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Dec 20, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You do realise it's 'bits & pieces'?


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Shankhill butchers. They knew who they were and where they lived and drank, they just didn't give a shit. It was a playground for 14nth int. to hone counter insurgency techniques.



Didn't the IRA kill Murphy?


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Indeed. The post was a very cynical, sarcastic reply to the poster who suggests the IRA are the saviours of Ireland and I should be grateful to them. They aren't and I'm not.



Did the IRA not oust the British state from 26 counties? If it were not for them you probably would have been holding a British passport rather than an Irish one.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 20, 2016)

Which is what, I suspect, he'd prefer.


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> The IRA did not liberate Ireland. Unless you're trying to equate them with the men and women of 1916. Very, very different.
> 
> But they used violence to achieve their ends, did they not? You disapprove of violence to achieve ends, do you not?
> 
> The fact is that those groups which organised and engaged in the Easter Rising (which unfortunately failed) went on to form the IRA and defeat the British state in 26 counties.


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Replying to your edit (and I was sure you had me on ignore):
> 
> I give Sinn Fein the benefit of the doubt these days; they have some very good TDs and councillors in the Republic who are doing excellent work for the communities. They believe in inclusivity and I have no problem with them as a democratic party. I can count amongst my friends a prominent SF member, so it's not all black and white.
> 
> But I'll never ever raise a glass to murderers. Be they Irish, British or whoever.



You do realise that Sinn Fein were the political wing of the IRA right? Their membership also includes many current SF members.


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Do you support the IRA; you know, the people who brought you Eniskillent, Warrington etc?



Eniskillen and Warrington were not the "hundreds" you speak of. Awful things which happened but not the "hundreds" you mention.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Dec 20, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> You do realise that Sinn Fein were the political wing of the IRA right? Their membership also includes many current SF members.



That is quite an interesting (and arbitrary) distinction - no?


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> You still haven't answered my question. Do you support the IRA?
> 
> Or maybe you support the lads that brought you Omagh? I mean, yes, technically, it was the "Real IRA" but you seem to think that these thugs share a glorious history with the men and women of 1916...



You condemn nationalism and violence but count 1916 as a glorious episode? Do you even read what you write? But yes, those groups do share a lineage leading back to 1916 as it was those groups engaged in thr 1916 rising which went on to form the IRA one year later.


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Do you support the IRA? Have you ever been to Ireland? Have you ever met an Irish person?



He never has, Irish people are this mysterious legend which people are not sure actually exist.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> Didn't the IRA kill Murphy?


given to them by his own after his release n the gun charge iirc.


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> given to them by his own after his release n the gun charge iirc.



The UVF tipped the IRA off? Why?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> The UVF tipped the IRA off? Why?


disgust, liability, never accepted uvf commnd properly anyway- who knows. those are just things I have read as to the reasons for doing it


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> disgust, liability, never accepted uvf commnd properly anyway- who knows. those are just things I have read as to the reasons for doing it



You must be beyond the pale if the UVF think you are so much of a cock that you need to be taken out by your mortal enemies. I am surprised the UVF did not do it anyway.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 20, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> The fact is that those groups which organised and engaged in the Easter Rising (which unfortunately failed) went on to form the IRA and defeat the British state in 26 counties.



Who do you think you are, eh? Coming on here with your pesky, indisputable,  historical facts? What are your pesky, indisputable, historical facts compared to Crybaby's victimhood? You fascist bully-boy apologist.

All the volunteers in 1916 were choir boys who loved their Mammys... as can be clearly seen through any decent pair of rose-tinted glasses..


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Who do you think you are, eh? Coming on here with your pesky, indisputable,  historical facts? What are your pesky, indisputable, historical facts compared to Crybaby's victimhood? You fascist bully-boy apologist.
> 
> All the volunteers in 1916 were choir boys who loved their Mammys... as can be clearly seen through any decent pair of rose-tinted glasses..



So I hear. The IRA were all Catholics too, including the protestants and atheists among them such as George Gilmore, William Tumilson and others.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> You must be beyond the pale


him and his boys were sadistic torturers, indiscriminate killers. In their ventures they killed quite a few 'prods' as well. Just a total psycho with a power base


----------



## LiamO (Dec 20, 2016)

Next thing you'll be telling us is that, but for Protestant free-thinkers, irish Republicanism would never have existed. Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmett, Henry Joy McCracken, Watty Graham, Thomas Davis, Lord Edward Fitzgerald, Napper Tandy, Bulmer Hobson, Roger Casement, Constance Marcievicz, Jack White, Erskine Childers were all daily Mass-goers.


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

I am done with this thread anyway. I am off for a shit and a wank. I probably will not be returning because responding to _Crybaby_ is tedious and there is not much more to be said.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> I am off for a shit and a wank.


which one comes first or will you be combining the pleasures?


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Next thing you'll be telling us is that, but for Protestant free-thinkers, irish Republicanism would never have existed. Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmett, Henry Joy McCracken, Watty Graham, Thomas Davis, Lord Edward Fitzgerald, Napper Tandy, Bulmer Hobson, Roger Casement, Constance Marcievicz, Jack White, Erskine Childers were all daily Mass-goers.



Those Catholic fundamentalist sectarian murdering scum bags! I am shaking my head in disgust. 

Anyway, I really do need a shit so I must go. lol


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 20, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> which one comes first or will you be combining the pleasures?



Try both. 

I am turtle necking so must go. lol


----------



## LiamO (Dec 20, 2016)

Bring suitable reading material.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> You condemn nationalism and violence but count 1916 as a glorious episode? Do you even read what you write? But yes, those groups do share a lineage leading back to 1916 as it was those groups engaged in thr 1916 rising which went on to form the IRA one year later.



It doesn't like to be accepted in polite circles that the broad coalition of armed factions that engaged in the 1916 uprising referred to themselves that week as " Irish Republican Army " / " Army of the Irish Republic " during those hostilities , and at their courts martial . Nurse Elizabeth Ofarrell said the IRA was " a very good name " when the British general asked her who exactly was surrendering .  The initials were also found chalked on a blackboard in the South Dublin Union ( 99.9on the location ) post surrender . And both the transcript of the surrender order signed by Pearse and Connolly , and Connollys court martial transcripts refer solely to " Army of the Irish Republic " . The same thing . 

IRA never came about later by accident, the title was coined on Easter week itself.


----------



## hipipol (Dec 21, 2016)

The Bruce offered Ireland a union against the English nearly 700 years ago
Being fractious gits, they could not agree
Nothings changed I see


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 21, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Who do you think you are, eh? Coming on here with your pesky, indisputable,  historical facts? What are your pesky, indisputable, historical facts compared to Crybaby's victimhood? You fascist bully-boy apologist.
> 
> All the volunteers in 1916 were choir boys who loved their Mammys... as can be clearly seen through any decent pair of rose-tinted glasses..



Crybaby, sissy, uncle tom etc etc for how long now?

zzzzzz


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 21, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> Try both.
> 
> I am turtle necking so must go. lol



Welcome back IRA hasbara


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 21, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Which is what, I suspect, he'd prefer.



Make yer mind up, chum. You're giving out on the EU thread because I'm Irish but here on this wankfest thread I'm not really Irish because I don't suck the cock of paramilitaries.

I imagine it tastes bitter, at any rate.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 21, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> I am done with this thread anyway. I am off for a shit and a wank. I probably will not be returning because responding to _Crybaby_ is tedious and there is not much more to be said.



Hmm. You've responded to all my posts, despite being a newbie here. As I said, welcome back & ticofaidh ar la la.

Remember to shit and wank all over the dead bodies your heroes murdered.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 21, 2016)

Regarding post 303? Do me a favour and quote me properly.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 21, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Hmm. You've responded to all my posts, despite being a newbie here. As I said, welcome back & ticofaidh ar la la.
> 
> Remember to shit and wank all over the dead bodies your heroes murdered.



Shocking that even a newbie objects to your musings. What does that say about you eh?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 21, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Shocking that even a newbie objects to your musings. What does that say about you eh?



You tell me, little man.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 21, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> You tell me, little man.



Why don't you deal with their substantive points instead of the barely concealed aggression against those who'd stopped engaging with you?
He made the effort to give several replies. Maybe you could reciprocate?


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 21, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Why don't you deal with their substantive points instead of the barely concealed aggression against those who'd stopped engaging with you?
> He made the effort to give several replies. Maybe you could reciprocate?



What, like you did earlier in the thread? Or on the EU thread that you resurected? LOL.

And don't play dumb again. You must know precisely where and when given your weird obsession with my past posts.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 21, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Shocking that even a newbie objects to your musings. What does that say about you eh?



Newbie, my arse.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 21, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> Newbie, my arse.



He is. I know him irl and others also do on here if you need a credentials check.  
He's late 20s. What's the average age of here nowadays?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 21, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> He is. I know him irl and others also do on here if you need a credentials check.
> He's late 20s. What's the average age of here nowadays?


Older than the average tory


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 21, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Older than the average tory



Where we all end up as we get older. 
The cobweb left needs rattling about I think.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> The UVF tipped the IRA off? Why?



Wrong . The leak coming from the loyalist side was UDA leader Jim Craig . He was doing quite well out of extortion and gansterism and didn't want to end up on a hit list  . People like Murphy and others were endangering his lifestyle by ramping sectarian killings up .  He set up quite a few , not just Murphy . UDA were later tipped off about him, most likely by scap . And that was the end of jimbo .


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 21, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> He is. I know him irl and others also do on here if you need a credentials check.
> He's late 20s. What's the average age of here nowadays?



To be scrupulously honest, you vouching for him just makes me more suspicious that he's a returner in his late 40s.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 21, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> To be scrupulously honest, you vouching for him just makes me more suspicious that he's a returner in his late 40s.



it was a daft thing for me to say, in hindsight. But you speak the truth and back your mates wherever possible.
It's irrelevant here.


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 17, 2017)

National Action activist on trial.

Bradford teen accused of planning terror attack ‘called Jo Cox’s killer a hero’


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 17, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> National Action activist on trial.
> 
> Bradford teen accused of planning terror attack ‘called Jo Cox’s killer a hero’


So, among their many hates, na are anti-semantic


----------



## MrSpikey (Jan 23, 2017)

jimmer said:


> You can see why [Mark Collett] was suggested as a future leader for the far-right at Larry Nunn/Western Spring's recent unity meeting.



While he's quite an eloquent speaker, I suspect he won't get much support from those who have been around that scene a while. His previous actions don't lend him much credibility, on a number of fronts.



For example, things like the above aren't exactly positive adverts for his innate leadership abilities.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 25, 2017)

"I was being edgy I guess".

Teen terror suspect in Jo Cox killer 'hero' U-turn - BBC News


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 27, 2017)

Guilty on making the pipebomb, acquitted on ‘preparing a terrorist act’ charge. Sentencing still to come.

Teenager who praised killer of Jo Cox guilty of making pipebomb


----------



## ddraig (Feb 13, 2017)

rehabilitation and deradicalisation for the poor confused kiddy
Neo-Nazi pipe bomb teenager given rehabilitation order - BBC News


> *'Extreme views'*
> Passing sentence Mr Justice Goss said the boy needed "a considerable amount of work and attention" in order to address his behaviour.
> 
> The judge told the boy he rejected his claim to have been "merely fooling about with fireworks" and said "you have continued to express extreme views".
> ...


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Feb 15, 2017)

I can't halp but think if this was a 17 year old Muslim in possession of a viable (even if small pipe bomb) plus a plethora of physical and digital evidence the sentence would be somewhat different.

Is this just me?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 15, 2017)

They're still active, unsurprisingly, according to this report. 

National Action Still 'Active' And 'Poses Serious Terrorist Threat' Despite Ban, Report Claims | The Huffington Post


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 15, 2017)

I wonder how much of that represents a credible threat and how much is HnH bigging up the threat whilst rattling the donation tin.


----------



## jimmer (Feb 16, 2017)

It'd be a bit naive to think 100-odd young neo-Nazis are just going to disappear because the government bans the organisation they're in.

I've not seen much/if any evidence to suggest they're still active but would agree with HnH's assessment that the core of their group will continue to organise together while people on the fringes drift off. Just remains to be seen where they pop up. I've heard one of them suggest they all join the British Movement en masse which wouldn't be a huge surprise as there has been some membership crossover in the past. It also sounds like former NA leader Alex Davies is behind the Welsh Forum (part of the London Forum network) so I wouldn't be surprised if they end up participating in whatever project emerges from that network.

But yeah, 100-odd neo-Nazis are not going to be a massive threat. It never looked like NA would outgrow the neo-Nazi subculture and be capable of anything beyond low level violence and vandalism. It looks like a couple of people close to them were involved in the attack on the squat in Belgravia a few weeks ago, linking up with the former Portsmouth EDL division and other Pie and Mash Squad types. I can see that kind of attack getting a lot more common (they're probably down a bit since the start of the EDL but are still happening). That's all the left really needs to worry about physically from the extreme-right atm.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 16, 2017)

I found this to be interesting: 



> It also highlighted 1990s nazi terrorist group, Combat 18, whose membership is surging.



Really?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 16, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I found this to be interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> Really?


Well, certainly Wilf Browning has been hooking up with the wider NSU milieu in Germany recently.

But that report does not match the hyperbole with much evidence beyond that, and later notes that any UK revival in 2016 was “mainly due to a growing number of North West In dels identifying themselves as c18 even if these people weren’t directly linked to the c18 leadership [and the wearing of] c18 paraphernalia at the Dover demonstration last January, including wearing c18 facemasks and flags.”


----------



## jimmer (Feb 16, 2017)

Thought it was more the September 2015 demo where Diddyman was walking around with a C18 flag. Didn't think there were many on the January demo.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 16, 2017)

I'm aware that there's fan boys about, one even contacted my fb profile to gloat "we're back!" (Lol) back in 2014 I think; haven't seen much evidence of activity though.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 16, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'm aware that there's fan boys about, one even contacted my fb profile to gloat "we're back!" (Lol) back in 2014 I think; haven't seen much evidence of activity though.


Jackbooted cosplay


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 16, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Jackbooted cosplay



Max Mosley wannabees.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 14, 2017)

Hope Not Hate article on NA founder Ben Raymond's attempts to get round proscription:

Exclusive: National Action’s secret plans to relaunch with a new name


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 14, 2017)

Nobody predicted this.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 12, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Hope Not Hate article on NA founder Ben Raymond's attempts to get round proscription:
> 
> Exclusive: National Action’s secret plans to relaunch with a new name



That link no longer works but apparently they're re-emerging as a cell structure and this is their Scottish cell:

https://www.daily 
stormer.com/dank-new-nationalist-group-scottish-dawn/

Interesting that they're against independence but also call themselves Scottish Nationalists. Confusing!


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 12, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> That link no longer works



Hmmm... Not even snagged on archive.org, peculiar.

Here's a google cache:

Exclusive: National Action’s secret plans to relaunch with a new name


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 5, 2017)

Oops



> A 22-year-old from Birmingham, a 32-year-old from Powys, a 24-year-old from Ipswich and a 24-year-old from Northampton, have been arrested under the Terrorism Act on suspicion of being a member of a proscribed organisation, West Midlands police said.



Four held on suspicion of being members of outlawed neo-nazi group


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Oops
> 
> 
> 
> Four held on suspicion of being members of outlawed neo-nazi group


Four men suspected of being part of recently outlawed National Action include serving members of British army.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 5, 2017)

comments saying they've used a pic of antifa on this article 
Four arrested on terror charges for belonging to neo-Nazi group National Action | Metro News


----------



## Libertad (Sep 5, 2017)

All four who have been arrested are serving soldiers in the British army according to the BBC.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2017)

ddraig said:


> comments saying they've used a pic of antifa on this article
> Four arrested on terror charges for belonging to neo-Nazi group National Action | Metro News


did you spot the link to this little gem?


Racist turned up at court with can of lager mixed with tequila | Metro News


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 5, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Four men suspected of being part of recently outlawed National Action include serving members of British army.




Astonishingly nothing on the Army's press release page yet.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 5, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Astonishingly nothing on the Army's press release page yet.




they were probably about the last people on earth to hear about it...

i'm a bit embarrassed about tbh, at least the Royal Marines had a long term sleeper agent who was building bombs for a new C/RIRA, the Army just gets some Happy Shopper EDL group.

(the serious, interesting bit will be who they are, whether its people from one unit or just randoms from different places, and what charges get to court - the Army will hang them out to dry, and their friends/colleagues are in for a torrid time.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 5, 2017)

Organisation which spends its time blowing up brown folks in 'contains racists' shocker.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 5, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Organisation which spends its time blowing up brown folks in 'contains racists' shocker.



organisation which recruits from pretty much every part of society broadly reflects society shocker...


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 5, 2017)

the fourth riech encounters another setback


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 5, 2017)

Organisation which recruits for violent, antisocial purposes contains violent, antisocial people shocker.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 5, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> Organisation which recruits for violent, antisocial purposes contains violent, antisocial people shocker.



i think the NHS has had more terrorists than the Army...


----------



## Raheem (Sep 5, 2017)

kebabking said:


> i think the NHS has had more terrorists than the Army...



Provided you only count extra-curricular terrorism.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 5, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Provided you only count extra-curricular terrorism.



oh i don't know - have you tried the food?


----------



## Raheem (Sep 5, 2017)

kebabking said:


> oh i don't know - have you tried the food?



A fair point, although there are some who view the food as a legitimate weapon of war.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2017)

kebabking said:


> i think the NHS has had more terrorists than the Army...


ah yes, the 2007 doctors' plot for example


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Astonishingly nothing on the Army's press release page yet.



yeh i think you'll find they were all the press officers.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 5, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> ah yes, the 2007 doctors' plot for example



indeed - didn't a group/number of individuals go over to Syria to join IS as well?


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 5, 2017)

kebabking said:


> i think the NHS has had more terrorists than the Army...



tbf the nhs has about ten times more employees than the army


----------



## kebabking (Sep 5, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> tbd the nhs has about ten times more employees than the army



which reinforces my earlier post that the Army is a large employer that recruits from all over the demographic spectrum - like the NHS, as society has loons, inadequates and monsters, so will the Army.

however, theres nothing special about the Army in terms of spawning terrorists/loons/monsters - the NHS has them, as does Education.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 5, 2017)

Although you'd think the Army would at least have quality terrorists murder mayhem and cleaning stuff kind of our thing..
   National Action isnt that the group lead by the would be futher from his bedsit or is that a diffrent group of would be nazis?.

Probably not paras they hate everybody whose not a para its not a racist thing
  Guards to busy cleaning
 Royal sigs joining a banned group would mean leaving their room


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 5, 2017)

kebabking said:


> which reinforces my earlier post that the Army is a large employer that recruits from all over the demographic spectrum



Fair enough, I wasn't arguing with that.


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 5, 2017)

Violent and antisocial behaviour isn't unique to the forces, but they (especially the army) do recruit with violence in mind, unlike most other employers. Propensity towards brutality isn't an advantage for most people in the job market, but for some jobs in the forces it is something of a plus.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> Violent and antisocial behaviour isn't unique to the forces, but they (especially the army) do recruit with violence in mind, unlike most other employers. Propensity towards brutality isn't an advantage for most people in the job market, but for some jobs in the forces it is something of a plus.


In some cases essential in the person spec, in others merely desirable


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 5, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Probably not paras they hate everybody whose not a para its not a racist thing
> Guards to busy cleaning
> Royal sigs joining a banned group would mean leaving their room



Three from Royal Anglian Regiment apparently.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 5, 2017)

Explains it they came from the fens not saying the entire regiment is related but the gene pools pretty shallow 
The regimental march isnt played on banjos but should be


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 7, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> Three from Royal Anglian Regiment apparently.


Do they dress in silver and ride a silver horse and spin around to Handel's Water Music at the end of Tales of the Unexpected?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 7, 2017)

Well fancy a group of paramilitary fetishists being unmasked as in the armed forces.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 7, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Explains it they came from the fens not saying the entire regiment is related but the gene pools pretty shallow
> The regimental march isnt played on banjos but should be


----------



## likesfish (Sep 7, 2017)

One of them was a PTI  thought he'd get enough inflicting pain and terror in the day job 

Ours was called the beastmaster and revelled in it boxing day  "potted sportsday" included such fun  activites as a stretcher race up and down a cliff and pulling a 4 ton truck

As for the boat races inspired by GI jane.

We did blow a couple of  scrap cars up with improvised explosives for fun and persuaded the RMP it was neo EOKA  rather than bored fuckwits


----------



## Almor (Sep 7, 2017)

kebabking said:


> which reinforces my earlier post that the Army is a large employer that recruits from all over the demographic spectrum - like the NHS, as society has loons, inadequates and monsters, so will the Army.
> 
> however, theres nothing special about the Army in terms of spawning terrorists/loons/monsters - the NHS has them, as does Education.


 
The British army does claim to instill its values in its recruits though?


----------



## kebabking (Sep 7, 2017)

Almor said:


> The British army does claim to instill its values in its recruits though?



As does the NHS, yet it's members drive bombs into airports, or become the most prolific serial killers ever to walk these shores...

As with any organisation, some people will be admitted who should not have been, and others will go bad while they are in.

The issues surrounding this episode will be what flags were seen and not acted on, and what action those who saw those flags - assuming they existed - did about them.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 7, 2017)

kebabking said:


> As does the NHS, yet it's members drive bombs into airports, or become the most prolific serial killers ever to walk these shores...
> 
> As with any organisation, some people will be admitted who should not have been, and others will go bad while they are in.
> 
> The issues surrounding this episode will be what flags were seen and not acted on, and what action those who saw those flags - assuming they existed - did about them.


I do hope its army rules that if someones a raging fascist you are supposed to flag that up as a concern, even if its a colleague.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 7, 2017)

Obviously National Action are proscribed but is there anything in the employment rules stopping recruits being members of other 'extremist' groups that are not specifically proscribed, EDL or some such?  I believe the Police have such restrictions.

Basically have these guys just not revoked their membership when it got banned.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 7, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I do hope its army rules that if someones a raging fascist you are supposed to flag that up as a concern, even if its a colleague.



It is, the issue will be whether anyone outside this group knew about their proclivities, and - if they did - what they did about that knowledge.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2017)

kebabking said:


> It is, the issue will be whether anyone outside this group knew about their proclivities, and - if they did - what they did about that knowledge.


i understand that if you know about this sort of thing and you don't tell the authorities it is easy to end up in the shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Obviously National Action are proscribed but is there anything in the employment rules stopping recruits being members of other 'extremist' groups that are not specifically proscribed, EDL or some such?  I believe the Police have such restrictions.
> 
> Basically have these guys just not revoked their membership when it got banned.


the edl not a membership organisation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2017)

kebabking said:


> As does the NHS, yet it's members drive bombs into airports, or become the most prolific serial killers ever to walk these shores...
> 
> As with any organisation, some people will be admitted who should not have been, and others will go bad while they are in.
> 
> The issues surrounding this episode will be what flags were seen and not acted on, and what action those who saw those flags - assuming they existed - did about them.


----------



## krink (Sep 7, 2017)

is that a metaphor or a semaphore?


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 7, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> the edl not a membership organisation.



Really?  They missed a trick there then.  Trying to flog crappy hoodies when not even collecting any subs.


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Do they dress in silver and ride a silver horse and spin around to Handel's Water Music at the end of Tales of the Unexpected?



Danny that's what I grew up on (fuck East Anglia). Did you too? I thought you were in Scotland?


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 7, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> Danny that's what I grew up on (fuck East Anglia). Did you too? I thought you were in Scotland?


It used to come on at the end of Tales of the Unexpected. Nowadays you'd never see that bit, because they reduce the credits to a box while the continuity speaks over it. But back then credits played right through to the end.

(I grew up in Grampian but was rezoned to STV, who made Taggart).


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2017)

krink said:


> is that a metaphor or a semaphore?


yes


----------



## ddraig (Sep 11, 2017)

charges
Two British soldiers have been charged with neo-Nazi terror offences



> Three men, including two serving soldiers in the British army, have been charged with terror offences as part of an investigation into a banned neo-Nazi group, West Midlands Police said.
> 
> Alexander Deakin, 22, Mikko Vehvilainen, 32, and Mark Barrett, 24, have been charged in connection with their alleged membership of National Action.
> 
> Five men, including four serving soldiers, were held on suspicion of terror offences last week, police said.


----------



## extra dry (Sep 12, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Nationalist Actionists


Actionista Nationally. A-NAL for short.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 12, 2017)

kebabking said:


> organisation which recruits from pretty much every part of society broadly reflects society shocker...


Something i saw on facebook suggested at least one of these four if not all was an entryist and part of a conscious programme for NA members to join the ranks and recruit and spread. The post was unsubstantiated though.


----------



## dylanredefined (Sep 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I do hope its army rules that if someones a raging fascist you are supposed to flag that up as a concern, even if its a colleague.


   Unless they are causing a problem it would probably be dismissed as just being an oddball. If it is picked up they get fucked over and kicked out pretty sharpish. Unless they think they are doing it to just get out when they will just get fucked over.



Teaboy said:


> Obviously National Action are proscribed but is there anything in the employment rules stopping recruits being members of other 'extremist' groups that are not specifically proscribed, EDL or some such?  I believe the Police have such restrictions.
> 
> Basically have these guys just not revoked their membership when it got banned.



 Yeah, you not allowed to be in any extremist groups and should own up to being in any previously.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 12, 2017)

Two obvious skinheads tried to join hastings TA to in their own words to get weapons training for the coming race war .
  OC was trying to find remember what forms you fill in too ban Nazis or just post them to the eastborne platoon where they'd fit in .  But the pratts gave up on the three mile run so that was that


----------



## ddraig (Sep 14, 2017)

Three men charged over neo-Nazi stickers at university
Aston university


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 16, 2017)

One of my mate's dad's was one of the people arrested in this article. 


Pensioner charged with manufacturing guns after raid on boats on Leeds canal 

He was released without charge. He was seen talking to one of suspects (they have neighbouring boats) and was hard stopped leaving the marina - machine gun to head, full swat team macho aggro treatment, thrown in a cell for 12 hours then let go without any apology (hes a 72 year old with a heart condition).

Anyway - apparently the person manufacturing and modifying the guns is some right wing nutjob. Weather he is connected with national action i dont know - but he apparently did have connections with Thomas Mair (jo cox's murderer)- who used a home modifed weapon. 

There was also an incident in july in Selby (8 miles east of leeds) where police raided a mans home after he had been arrested on "suspicion of racially or religiously aggravated harassment" and criminal damage. They found "hazardous material". I cant find any follow up info wrt charges or what the material was.  

Suspected hazardous material found in Selby flat after man's arrest over racial offence

So we have what looks like a number of quite old men with extreme right wing views connected with possession and manufacture of weapons and explosives - and in one case a political assassination -  all living within 10 miles of each other. 

They may be all completely unconnected - but at the very least it shows that there are number of far right individuals out there who are making and stockpiling weapons and one who has used these to commit a terrorist murder. 

cant help feeling that if they were jihadis the dots would be very publicly being joined by the security services and media.  The 7/7 bombers came from the same area and the media were all over hyde park and beeston in leeds and nearby dewsbury and batley looking for the factors that had created the west yorkshire "axis of evil".


----------



## likesfish (Sep 16, 2017)

The media arnt intrested in right wing terrorists who've not actually managed anything right wing killers tend to have have left any group they had links to as the nazis dont actually fo anything.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2017)

there must be a load of far right blokes well over 50 who jacked it in a while ago cos of infighting, pointlessness or tired of being hoofed off the street by antifascists. they can still have the same views but are not visible with usual bunch of scrotes cos they got sick of the company. imagine, hanging round with the NF? what a bunch of ne'er do wells!


----------



## chilango (Sep 16, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> there must be a load of far left blokes well over 50 who jacked it in a while ago cos of infighting, pointlessness or tired of being hoofed off the street by the police. they can still have the same views but are not visible with usual bunch of scrotes cos they got sick of the company. imagine, hanging round with the SWP? what a bunch of ne'er do wells!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> there must be a load of far right blokes well over 50 who jacked it in a while ago cos of infighting, pointlessness or tired of being hoofed off the street by antifascists. they can still have the same views but are not visible with usual bunch of scrotes cos they got sick of the company. imagine, hanging round with the NF? what a bunch of ne'er do wells!


There are such a group, of whom I and others are aware


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 3, 2017)

“Roman sword”


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 3, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> “Roman sword”



yeh. the intention was the mp would die from tetanus.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 3, 2017)

What’s wrong with British swords?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 3, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What’s wrong with British swords?


yeh british swords for british mps


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 3, 2017)

I imagine much of the investigation into the allegations was predicated on crime scene spatha analysis


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 3, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> I imagine much of the investigation into the allegations was predicated on crime scene spatha analysis



That post is a crime scene itself.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 3, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> That post is a crime scene itself.


Just gladius to be here


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 3, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Just gladius to be here


you might sabre that, i couldn't possibly comment


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 3, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What’s wrong with being Sextus Pompeius Magnus Pius?



CTFY


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 3, 2017)

i think this is the same Trubini from Warrington whose charged with being a member of NA. Bit of a weirdo imo Michal Trubini


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 3, 2017)

So close to _tribuni_.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 3, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> i think this is the same Trubini from Warrington whose charged with being a member of NA. Bit of a weirdo imo Michal Trubini


they're all a bit weird, national action


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> “Roman sword”




"You misheard me.  I said I wanted to give them a bunch of Gladioli, not the blade of a Gladius".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> I imagine much of the investigation into the allegations was predicated on crime scene spatha analysis



That's so crap you should be sentenced to the _fustuarium_, Cinzano!


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 5, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> "You misheard me.  I said I wanted to give them a bunch of Gladioli, not the blade of a Gladius".


So more Stephen Morrissey than Marcus Aurelius?

#SundayJoke.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 7, 2017)

Alleged neo-Nazi to stand trial next year over machete murder plot

Why can’t he be named? Does that usually mean there’s other cases which might be affected?


----------



## krink (Nov 8, 2017)

National Action leader found dead days before race hate court case National Action leader found dead days before race hate court case


----------



## ddraig (Nov 8, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Alleged neo-Nazi to stand trial next year over machete murder plot
> 
> Why can’t he be named? Does that usually mean there’s other cases which might be affected?


yes


----------



## emanymton (Nov 8, 2017)

krink said:


> National Action leader found dead days before race hate court case National Action leader found dead days before race hate court case


Suicide?


----------



## Smoking kills (Nov 9, 2017)

emanymton said:


> Suicide?


Antifa?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 9, 2017)

Smoking kills said:


> Antifa?



Henry, the mild mannered janitor?


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 9, 2017)

Smoking kills said:


> Antifa?



Joking aside, I worry about how long before antifa is listed as a terrorist organisation - what with all the lies and smears surrounding it...


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 9, 2017)

krink said:


> National Action leader found dead days before race hate court case National Action leader found dead days before race hate court case


Turned out nice again


----------



## krink (Nov 9, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> Joking aside, I worry about how long before antifa is listed as a terrorist organisation - what with all the lies and smears surrounding it...



antifa isn't an organisation so not sure how they could


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 9, 2017)

krink said:


> antifa isn't an organisation so not sure how they could



I was going to point that out but there was a group in London called Antifa a decade or so ago.


----------



## krink (Nov 9, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I was going to point that out but there was a group in London called Antifa a decade or so ago.



was that before or after the 'no platform' group?

if they did ban a group, who would it be in the uk? there are none that I know of that have done anything anywhere near the usual definition of 'terrorism' against the state.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 9, 2017)

krink said:


> was that before or after the 'no platform' group?



After I think as didn’t No Platform come about when AFA dissolved?


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 9, 2017)

krink said:


> antifa isn't an organisation so not sure how they could



There seems to be a lot of people in the US who aren't aware that it's a movement and has been around for years. All right wing chatter but it's crazy how some see antifa behind every gun massacre now


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Nov 9, 2017)

On TV tonight - more UKIP far right links: UK far-right activists attend military-style camps with anti-Islam group


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 15, 2017)

I've been told elsewhere online this about antifa:
_They actually *are* a terrorist organization as identified by the state of New Jersey office of Homeland security._
This is bullshit, right? Only InfoWars is putting out that story, afaics...


----------



## Shechemite (Nov 15, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> I've been told elsewhere online this about antifa:
> _They actually *are* a terrorist organization as identified by the state of New Jersey office of Homeland security._
> This is bullshit, right? Only InfoWars is putting out that story, afaics...



Who told you?


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 15, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Who told you?



I'd like to know if there's any truth in it. I don;t believe there is. 

It doesn't really matter who told me.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 15, 2017)

Well they are clearly identified as "anarchist extremists" on the NJ Homeland Security site.

Anarchist Extremists: Antifa

But this is different from being terrorists.

It would be unbelievable if the state didn't take an interest in antifa groups. But there are degrees of this sort of thing.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 15, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Well they are clearly identified as "anarchist extremists" on the NJ Homeland Security site.
> 
> Anarchist Extremists: Antifa
> 
> ...



Thanks for that. 

There's a lot of hokum floating about these days, alternative histories being posted as fact and it's getting scary. I want to be able to know the right reply when someone says to me antifa are terrorists etc!


----------



## krink (Nov 15, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Well they are clearly identified as "anarchist extremists" on the NJ Homeland Security site.
> 
> Anarchist Extremists: Antifa





> In June 2016, 300 counter-protesters, including anarchist extremists, attacked 25 members of the white supremacist Traditionalist Worker Party with knives, bottles, bricks, and concrete from a construction site while rallying at the California State Capitol in Sacramento, injuring 10.



only ten? our US comrades must try harder


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 3, 2018)

Far-right group suspects arrested

Bit mad that you can be held under the terrorism act for being suspected of being a member of a proscribed organisation that wasn’t involved in terrorism.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 3, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Far-right group suspects arrested
> 
> Bit mad that you can be held under the terrorism act for being suspected of being a member of a proscribed organisation that wasn’t involved in terrorism.


when i was held under the auld pta the cops never even suggested i might be a member of a proscribed organisation.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 3, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> when i was held under the auld pta the cops never even suggested i might be a member of a proscribed organisation.



But the Semtex under the bed didn’t help Matters.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 3, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Bet the Semtex under the bed didn’t help Matters.


c4u: and no it didn't


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 3, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Far-right group suspects arrested
> 
> Bit mad that you can be held under the terrorism act for being suspected of being a member of a proscribed organisation that wasn’t involved in terrorism.


one in Stockport


----------



## JimW (Jan 3, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> c4u: and no it didn't


is C4u a new type of plastic explosive?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 3, 2018)

sounds more like a fourth stage provider doing micky mouse dole courses than plastique.

I see a NWI sort was in court today 'Self-proclaimed Nazi' goes on trial over rallies in northern England
 also


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 3, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> sounds more like a fourth stage provider doing micky mouse dole courses than plastique.
> 
> I see a NWI sort was in court today 'Self-proclaimed Nazi' goes on trial over rallies in northern England
> also


Jack Renshaw National Action


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 3, 2018)

JimW said:


> is C4u a new type of plastic explosive?


It is a standard abbreviation for 'corrected for you' but also the most recent variant of the American explosive c4


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jan 3, 2018)

krink said:


> was that before or after the 'no platform' group?
> 
> if they did ban a group, who would it be in the uk? there are none that I know of that have done anything anywhere near the usual definition of 'terrorism' against the state.



National Action doesn't fit that description either, however, their threats against albeit unnamed individuals is sufficient.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 3, 2018)

JimW said:


> is C4u a new type of plastic explosive?



Stands for C4: Unexploded.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 5, 2018)

Sorry to dredge this up 





Magnus McGinty said:


> I think they have 100 members nationally at tops. God knows where the Independent get their data from.



In my arrogant opinion : Its like Schnews exaggerating protest size but for tuther side


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 5, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Sorry to dredge this up
> 
> In my arrogant opinion : Its like Schnews exaggerating protest size but for tuther side



It’s often Searchlight over egging everything whilst rattling the donations tin.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 14, 2018)

Anyone have any ideas why reports from the ongoing trial name Mikko Vehvilainen and Mark Barrett, but not their fellow defendant, invariably referred to as “a 23-year-old man who cannot be identified for legal reasons”?

E.g.

British Army soldier Mikko Vehvilainen ‘was preparing to fight race war’
Accused soldier 'had Breivik manual'
British soldier 'was collecting weapons and planning all-white strongholds for race war'
Soldier 'is a racist but not a criminal' court told

Especially as the reports from September, when the three were up at magistrates' having charges laid before them, did name all three?

E.g. 

Welsh soldier in court over neo-Nazi group membership
Soldiers to stand trial on neo-Nazi charges
Soldier was part of banned neo-Nazi group and had Anders Breivik manifesto, court hears


----------



## gawkrodger (Mar 15, 2018)

he's turned Queens?


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 15, 2018)

Isn't that usually because they're involved in some other jury trial and they don't want to prejudice that?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 20, 2018)

What is it with NA and hiding? First it was the left luggage kiosk in Liverpool and now this:
Neo-Nazi group member accused found 'hiding in cupboard'


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 20, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> What is it with NA and hiding? First it was the left luggage kiosk in Liverpool and now this:
> Neo-Nazi group member accused found 'hiding in cupboard'


they're playing sardines


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 20, 2018)

Nazis hiding in small dark spaces...hmmmmmm..wonder where they got that tactic from


----------



## rekil (Mar 20, 2018)

Hide And Sieg


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 20, 2018)

copliker said:


> Heil And Sieg


c4u


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 20, 2018)

copliker said:


> Hide And Sieg


----------



## ddraig (Jun 12, 2018)

Renshaw changed plea to guilty, presumably gone grassed his fellow fash
MP's murder was to be 'white jihad'



> An alleged member of a banned neo Nazi group has admitted planning to murder a Labour MP in an act of what he termed "white jihad", a jury has heard.
> 
> Jack Renshaw, 23, pleaded guilty at the Old Bailey to preparing an act of terrorism by buying a machete to kill West Lancashire MP Rosie Cooper.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 13, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Renshaw changed plea to guilty, presumably gone grassed his fellow fash
> MP's murder was to be 'white jihad'


i wonder what auld jack buckby makes of his fellow skelmersdalian turning tout


----------



## M Testa (Jun 13, 2018)

Renshaw in very big poop hole. Hope Not Hate Informant spills beans. 
More importantly: FLA, Free Tommy ...


----------



## ddraig (Jun 13, 2018)

M Testa said:


> Renshaw in very big poop hole. Hope Not Hate Informant spills beans.
> More importantly: FLA, Free Tommy ...


more importantly??


----------



## ddraig (Jun 13, 2018)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-44467055



> A gang of white supremacists convicted of inciting racial hatred for plastering racist stickers around a university campus have been jailed.
> 
> Stickers put up at Aston University in Birmingham read "White Zone" and "Britain is ours - the rest must go" on the day of a Black Lives Matter march.
> 
> ...


----------



## M Testa (Jun 13, 2018)

NA were never a serious threat to militants. what do anti-fascists do regarding the massive demos by FLA and Free Tommy?


----------



## existentialist (Jun 14, 2018)

M Testa said:


> NA were never a serious threat to militants. what do anti-fascists do regarding the massive demos by FLA and Free Tommy?


Who's asking?


----------



## M Testa (Jun 15, 2018)

you dancing?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2018)

theres a good Twitter account following the NA trial
Daniel De Simone (@DdesimoneDaniel) on Twitter


----------



## M Testa (Jun 19, 2018)

National Action trial poorly researched and padded out with weak jokes.

<link removed: ed>


----------



## M Testa (Jun 20, 2018)

this ...

<link removed: ed>


----------



## ddraig (Jul 19, 2018)

guilty Men jailed for neo-Nazi group membership
Pipe bomb teenager admits terror offence


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 10, 2018)

Another trial of people accused of continued membership. They named their baby ‘Adolf’. 

British couple named baby after Adolf Hitler, court hears


----------



## 19force8 (Oct 10, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Another trial of people accused of continued membership. They named their baby ‘Adolf’.
> 
> British couple named baby after Adolf Hitler, court hears


As if it the surname "Patatas" wasn't enough of a cross to bear.

Also, is she wearing Hammer of Thor earrings?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 10, 2018)

Adolf Potato.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 26, 2018)

Not been following this, but:


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 26, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Not been following this, but:



Nice of the Beeb to so proficiently label one of the hand-out photos:


> Adam Thomas described this image of him posing in front of a KKK flag with a knife and and an anarchist's book as "a bit of silliness"



Looks like a Klan poster in a frame rather than a flag, and the “anarchist's book”? That would be Troy Southgate's _National Anarchism - A Reader_.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 12, 2018)

The Nazi Julian Lennon and Fascist Linda McCartney got sent down, along with a leading regional member, with a further three pleading guilty to membership of National Action:

Neo-Nazi couple found guilty of membership of banned terror group

Reporting restrictions have been lifted on the conviction in March of a soldier and a regional organiser (the ‘caught-in-the-cupboard’ chap), plus the acquittal of a second soldier and the charging but non-prosecution of a third and a fourth:

British soldier recruited for far-right group while in army


----------



## ddraig (Nov 12, 2018)

Good round up here, long read
The new parents and UK's neo-Nazi terror threat


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 12, 2018)

So that's...

October 2014 (anti-semitic tweet to Luciana Berger - August 2014)

Garron Helm, 21, from Litherland - 4 weeks' gaol

November 2014 (arrests but no prosecution - vandalism to Luciana Berger's office)

10 x NA members arrested

June 2015 conviction (attempted murder of Sarandev Bhambra - January 2015)

Zack Davies, 26, from Mold - life in prison, min. 14 years

October 2016 conviction (for racial harassment - May 2016 York rally)

Chad Williams-Allen, 25, from West Bromwich - fined £525 (£400 + £85 costs + £40 statutory surcharge)
[Arrested but not prosecuted]

4 x National Action

July 2017 conviction (sexual activity with a child - 2013)

Ryan Fleming, 26, from Horsforth

June 2018 convictions (for inciting racial hatred - July 2016 Aston University stickering)

Chad Williams-Allen, 26, from West Bromwich
Gary Jack, 22, from Shard End
Alexander Deakin [Unknown (1)], 23, ‘key influencer and organiser’
Dean Lloyd [Unknown (2)], 26
[Acquitted]

[Fifth man]

March 2018 convictions (for membership of a proscribed organisation, possession of nawty docs - September 2017 raids)

Mikko Vehvilainen, 34, (lance-)corporal in 2bn Royal Anglian Regiment, recruiter, from Llansilin
Alexander Deakin, 24, from Birmingham, Midlands regional organiser
[Acquitted]

Mark Barrett, 25, private in 2bn Royal Anglian Regiment
[Not prosecuted]

Soldier (3), 24, from Ipswich, knew Vehvilainen
Soldier (4), 24, from Northampton, knew Vehvilainen

July 2018 convictions (Rosie Cooper murder plot/terrorism/membership offences - July 2017 pub meeting ‘whistleblower’)

Christopher Lythgoe, 32, from Warrington, ‘leader’
Matthew Hankinson, 24, from Newton-le-Willows
Jack Renshaw, 23, from Skelmersdale [also racial incitement over March/April 2016 speeches]
[Acquitted]

Garron Helm, 24, from Seaforth
[Failed to reach a verdict]

Andrew Clarke, 33, from Warrington
Michal Trubini, 35, from Warrington
Renshaw [on membership]

November 2018 convictions (terrorism/membership offences - January 2018 raids)

Adam Thomas, 22, from Banbury
Claudia Patatas, 38, from Banbury
Daniel Bogunovic, 27, from Leicester, ‘leading figure in Midlands chapter’
Darren Fletcher, 28, of Wednesfield (guilty plea)
Joel Wilmore, 24, of Stockport (guilty plea)
Nathan Pryke, 26, of March (guilty plea)
(Updated 13/11/18)


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 12, 2018)

Not that I’m defending them but there’s some pretty weak arguments for ‘terrorism’ coming from the state here. Most of them seem like no-mark fantasist keyboard warriors in the bedroom they grew up in.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not that I’m defending them but there’s some pretty weak arguments for ‘terrorism’ coming from the state here. Most of them seem like no-mark fantasist keyboard warriors in the bedroom they grew up in.


stockpiling weapons and going on about and planning on killing people isn't terrorism?? 
and they went further than their bedrooms, surely even you can see that?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 13, 2018)

ddraig said:


> stockpiling weapons and going on about and planning on killing people isn't terrorism??
> and they went further than their bedrooms, surely even you can see that?



You actually have to terrorise people rather than wank off about it.
What I worry about (and this is constantly mentioned) is when they lump progressive groups into the same and we get groups banned. It’s already happening with PayPal.


----------



## Nylock (Nov 13, 2018)

So counter terrorism ops should be reactive instead of proactive?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 13, 2018)

Had they planned an atrocity? It doesn’t seem clear. They’ve been jailed for membership of a group that hadn’t committed an act of terrorism. 
I’m not defending these knuckle dragging cunts but let’s not place them on some undeserved pedestal either.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 13, 2018)

Reading those articles it goes well beyond violent wank fantasies though doesn't it? They worked out strategies (including getting members in the armed forces, something it appears they had begun to work towards given that two more members tried to join), an arsenal of weapons, etc. 

Having said that, this seems like a very odd and vague crime: 'possessing documents likely to be useful to a person preparing to commit an act of terrorism'. Could be anything couldn't it? A Haynes manual for a 2007 Fiat Punto if you're wanting to mow down some pedestrians and your starter motor is on the blink.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Nov 13, 2018)

It all feels a bit three lions


----------



## Shechemite (Nov 13, 2018)

Four lions


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Nov 13, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> It feels a bit three lions



I was thinking that, with their team building weekend where one of them got lost and had to sleep in a phone box.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You actually have to terrorise people rather than wank off about it.


No you don't. Planning, promoting, or preparing, is enough, and these cunts were definitely doing all that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 13, 2018)

SpineyNorman said:


> 'possessing documents likely to be useful to a person preparing to commit an act of terrorism


tbh I think most of us had a copy of jolly roger/anarchist cookbook BITD and I have 'towards a citizen militia' lurking on a hard drive somewehere.

I imagine you need more than just ownership of naughty books though, the surrounding evidence of organizing for race war attacks etc

not much more though


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 13, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> tbh I think most of us had a copy of jolly roger/anarchist cookbook BITD and I have 'towards a citizen militia' lurking on a hard drive somewehere.
> 
> I imagine you need more than just ownership of naughty books though, the surrounding evidence of organizing for race war attacks etc
> 
> not much more though



Think I bought a copy of the AC on a 3.5” floppy disc along with some extra levels for Doom from a stall down the boot sale. Probably still sat in a box in the attic somewhere, don’t tell the rozzers.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Had they planned an atrocity? It doesn’t seem clear. They’ve been jailed for membership of a group that hadn’t committed an act of terrorism.
> I’m not defending these knuckle dragging cunts but let’s not place them on some undeserved pedestal either.


See my last post. It's a bit odd that you consider that declaring these arseholes 'terrorists' to be placing them on some kind of pedestal.

It's not a badge of honour and I doubt that they or anyone else view it as such.


----------



## 19force8 (Nov 13, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Think I bought a copy of the AC on a 3.5” floppy disc along with some extra levels for Doom from a stall down the boot sale. Probably still sat in a box in the attic somewhere, don’t tell the rozzers.


Be careful, some levels of Doom will get you a couple of years each.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 13, 2018)

banned in germany for all its nazi imagery....no wait, that was Wolfenstein


----------



## 19force8 (Nov 13, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> banned in germany for all its nazi imagery....no wait, that was Wolfenstein


Off to see Overlord this afternoon.


----------



## likesfish (Nov 13, 2018)

At some point stockpiling weapons getting together with fellow Nazis to recruit more nazis talking about targets talking about explosives crosses the line and I'd rather they got jumped on now before the bodies pile up.
  If your stockpiling weapons and posing with them you deserve to have special branch take an intrest


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 13, 2018)

Also people seem to have forgotten about the NA member who chopped up a random member of the public in a Spar shop in Wales?

I get what Magnus is saying about the “extremism” agenda but I think most people can tell the difference between that and what Antifa etc do.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Also people seem to have forgotten about the NA member who chopped up a random member of the public in a Spar shop in Wales?


It wasn't a random member of the public it was a Sikh bloke in a racist attack.


----------



## chilango (Nov 13, 2018)

It was also not in a Spar but in a large Tesco Superstore in the middle of a small market town (Mold).


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 13, 2018)

I thought it transpired that he wasn’t actually a member. Or perhaps that was simply their denials.


----------



## souljacker (Nov 13, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Think I bought a copy of the AC on a 3.5” floppy disc along with some extra levels for Doom from a stall down the boot sale. Probably still sat in a box in the attic somewhere, don’t tell the rozzers.



I bought mine from Waterstones in town.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It wasn't a random member of the public it was a Sikh bloke in a racist attack.



Fair enough (and yes I got the shop wrong chilango ). 

The point still stands. The guy was chosen because of his ethnicity and not because of his  political beliefs or any prior relationship/ dealings with his attacker. 

So my argument is that the selection process and level of violence is entirely different from that used by anti-fascists.


----------



## chilango (Nov 13, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Fair enough (and yes I got the shop wrong chilango ).
> 
> The point still stands. The guy was chosen because of his ethnicity and not because of his  political beliefs or any prior relationship/ dealings with his attacker.
> 
> So my argument is that the selection process and level of violence is entirely different from that used by anti-fascists.



I only mentioned it as its my Mum's local Tesco and I've been in there many a time....


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 13, 2018)

chilango said:


> I only mentioned it as its my Mum's local Tesco and I've been in there many a time....



Fair enough -Horrible thing to happen in your local shop...


----------



## chilango (Nov 13, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Fair enough -Horrible thing to happen in your local shop...



Yeah. Also pretty unexpected. Without going into the microgeography of North East Wales there are other more "likely" Tesco's for this to have happened in..

But no matter. Don't wish to derail any further with my local Nazis for local people type withering


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 13, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Fair enough -Horrible thing to happen in your local shop...


Shh, you'll get mad magnus macginty and the white w/c of mold onto you.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 13, 2018)

There’s no such thing as the white working class, butchers.


----------



## agricola (Nov 13, 2018)

chilango said:


> I only mentioned it as its my Mum's local Tesco and I've been in there many a time....



Thank God it didn't happen in Hulsons.


----------



## M Testa (Nov 13, 2018)

supermarket nazi - zack davies. they shit it and denied he was a supporter. and ryan fleming has been jailed x2 for sex offences. what is it about the uk far right that rapists and child molesters find so attractive - leigh macmillan, pete gillet ... ?


----------



## Theisticle (Nov 14, 2018)

IIRC, Zack Davies had National Action leaflets in his house when the police raided it. The NA leadership has largely denied his links but then would use his actions in propaganda.

In the white man march in Liverpool in 2015, more senior members of NA were trying to recruit Polish neo-Nazis to come along and fight anti-fascists and police. There’s a reason why people like Wayne Bell/Jarvis are now in prison for public disorder.

MMA was a big part of their recruitment efforts - just look up MAC Legion/Western Spring training camps. It’s one part ‘self-defence’ and the other ideological. I wish the press didn’t ridicule it. They are violent racists training for race war.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 16, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> So that's...
> 
> October 2014 (anti-semitic tweet to Luciana Berger - August 2014)
> 
> ...



(Above updated 16/11/18)

I'm curious why Hope Not Hate sorry, ‘HOPE not hate’ (  ) has been so restrained (relatively speaking) about the July 2018 convictions, seeing as it was not previously shy in stating how it was its snitch wot dunnit?

And why has it stripped the website of some of its most detailed NA features (e.g. this one)? And purged virtually everything mentioning Christopher Lythgoe?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 16, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> Nice of the Beeb to so proficiently label one of the hand-out photos:
> 
> 
> Looks like a Klan poster in a frame rather than a flag, and the “anarchist's book”? That would be Troy Southgate's _National Anarchism - A Reader_.



Talking of which:

 

From Florida, April 2018.

See here.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 16, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> Talking of which:
> 
> View attachment 152629
> 
> ...


Are my eyes playing tricks or is that a black bloke at the back in the middle?


----------



## likesfish (Nov 16, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It wasn't a random member of the public it was a Sikh bloke in a racist attack.



 The 4 lions bit it is the racist loon thought he was a Muslim not that stabbing a random Muslim is any better just shows the actual intelligence of your would-be stormtrooper for the white race. Their morons and their ability to take power in the country is zero murdering a few people they could probably do that though


----------



## 19force8 (Nov 16, 2018)

SpineyNorman said:


> Are my eyes playing tricks or is that a black bloke at the back in the middle?


You mean the one giving the White Power hand sign?

Cloudy day, anorak hood? Genuinely difficult to know given how bizarre the American right is.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 16, 2018)

SpineyNorman said:


> Are my eyes playing tricks or is that a black bloke at the back in the middle?


That's ‘Tiny’ Toese from Patriot Prayer, and a Proud Boy to boot.


----------



## Theisticle (Nov 16, 2018)

Did anyone watch the Dispatches special on NA and HOPE not Hate? I’m glad they prevented another murder plot but it left me really unsettled. The snitch never really had his ideology challenged, and clearly thought they were a ‘good bunch of lads who went too far’ in his answers. He knew how extreme their views were but never apologised or sought to understand it. I appreciate that it takes time to unlearn but I think HnH made a mistake by hiring him full-time. I find that troubling tbh.

I don’t like Matthew Collins. There’s just something about him which just screams white Maajid Nawaz


----------



## Cheesepig3 (Nov 18, 2018)

chilango said:


> Yeah. Also pretty unexpected. Without going into the microgeography of North East Wales there are other more "likely" Tesco's for this to have happened in..
> 
> But no matter. Don't wish to derail any further with my local Nazis for local people type withering




To be accurate,  the more likely shops in NE Wales are mostly Spar.


----------



## Friedrich986 (Nov 18, 2018)

if the EU/Globalists had their way, they'd prob ban groups like UKIP and BNP too


----------



## Celyn (Nov 18, 2018)

Friedrich986 said:


> if the EU/Globalists had their way, they'd prob ban groups like UKIP and BNP too


 Exactly who are these "EU/Globalists"? 

You seem not to like them.


----------



## Celyn (Nov 18, 2018)

Friedrich986 said:


> if the EU/Globalists had their way, they'd prob ban groups like UKIP and BNP too


 
Oh dear, poor old UKIP, eh? Still, Nigel Farage is rich and quite happy now. 

BNP?   Is that lot still around?


----------



## Friedrich986 (Nov 18, 2018)

the BNP is basically just a symobolic term for any kind of group labelled 'far right' by the MSM

as for Nigel, good on him for being fabulously rich - doubt he's any richer than the average Labour or LibDem MP's , so why aren't you complaining about them too..?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 18, 2018)

Friedrich986 said:


> the BNP is basically just a symobolic term for any kind of group labelled 'far right' by the MSM
> 
> as for Nigel, good on him for being fabulously rich - doubt he's any richer than the average Labour or LibDem MP's , so why aren't you complaining about them too..?


No, the BNP is the British national party founded by John tyndall in the 1980s. It's not some sort of catch-all esp when bnp has declined so precipitously


----------



## Friedrich986 (Nov 18, 2018)

most people know what the BNP generally means , hence it's become a term in itself, regardless of whether it refers to the actual BNP itself or not


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 18, 2018)

Friedrich986 said:


> if the EU/Globalists had their way, they'd prob ban groups like UKIP and BNP too


Funnily enough rather than them being banned across Europe there has been a rise in populist and far right parties aside from the UK where the present polls have UKIP around 7% and still in lost deposit land.


----------



## Friedrich986 (Nov 18, 2018)

Parties perhaps are a little on the thin side, but the sentiment is there - ie. anti-PC alt-right semi-nationalist types, many in the UK , just no real party to vote for


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 18, 2018)

Friedrich986 said:


> Parties perhaps are a little on the thin side, but the sentiment is there - ie. anti-PC alt-right semi-nationalist types, many in the UK , just no real party to vote for


There are lots of real parties to vote for, you can see a list on the electoral commission website


----------



## Friedrich986 (Nov 18, 2018)

most of those don't field many candidates if any


----------



## chilango (Nov 18, 2018)

Friedrich986 said:


> ... the average Labour or LibDem MP's , so why aren't you complaining about them too..?





I doubt you'll find a forum on the internet anywhere that is more anti-LibDem than here tbh.


----------



## Friedrich986 (Nov 18, 2018)

oh ok, so what way does this lean , if you all hate Labour as well 

Corbyn I guess is the God around here, too bad he'll be retiring soon I guess


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 18, 2018)

Friedrich986 said:


> oh ok, so what way does this lean , if you all hate Labour as well
> 
> Corbyn I guess is the God around here, too bad he'll be retiring soon I guess



How about you take some time to read the threads here, rather than wading in with idiotic assumptions and then asking us to help you out?


----------



## chilango (Nov 18, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> How about you take some time to read the threads here, rather than wading in with idiotic assumptions and then asking us to help you out?



Depends whether Friedrich986 can restrain his finger from bashing the 8 key long enough to stay here and read the relevant threads...


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 18, 2018)

Friedrich986 said:


> if the EU/Globalists had their way, they'd prob ban groups like UKIP and BNP too



Globalists, you say


----------



## kebabking (Nov 18, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Globalists, you say



It's more fun to spell than _Jooooos._


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Dec 12, 2018)

Never heard of this lot but Gab sounds like a really unfun place to be if you click and read the twitter thread. (Includes text based violent racism and sexism)


----------



## Theisticle (Dec 12, 2018)

Gab is a true cesspit. Their core membership were heavy users of VK (Russian Facebook) prior to their proscription. The content there was and remains stomach turning.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 12, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Never heard of this lot but Gab sounds like a really unfun place to be if you click and read the twitter thread. (Includes text based violent racism and sexism)


Police make three ‘neo-Nazi’ terror arrests


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 5, 2019)

Turns out it was all a joke, haven't you got a sense of humour?

Neo-Nazi group's 'humour lost on people'


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 5, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Turns out it was all a joke, haven't you got a sense of humour?
> 
> Neo-Nazi group's 'humour lost on people'


----------



## M Testa (Mar 8, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Turns out it was all a joke, haven't you got a sense of humour?
> 
> Neo-Nazi group's 'humour lost on people'



yeah like '6 million jews walk into a bar ...'


----------



## Rosemary Jest (Apr 2, 2019)

As well as being racists, they are also nonces: 

The neo-Nazi paedophile who plotted to kill


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Apr 2, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Turns out it was all a joke, haven't you got a sense of humour?
> 
> Neo-Nazi group's 'humour lost on people'



To be fair, they do look like a bunch of clowns.







As an aside, at least 5 of these fine upstanding young men seem to be undercover cops.


----------



## M Testa (Apr 2, 2019)

like combat 18 they never had any successful confrontations with militant anti-fascists. more to come ...


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 3, 2019)

I’m glad he prevented two people from being murdered but find the whole HnH circle jerk around Robbie Mullen. In this act people have forgotten he was a member of National Action *before* it was proscribed. He didn’t make contact with Collins for 2 years if you match up the timelines. He joined the group because he’d been intoxicated in far-right ideology since his early teens. The dispatches documentary was interesting because it revealed that he didn’t really disavow NA or their views. Are we really going to praise Nazis for doing something morally correct for a change? I’m very sceptical that he’s changed his views. I think it’s naive of HnH to fundraise to take this guy into schools. It all reeks of how Quilliam handled Yaxley-Lennon in the beginning.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 3, 2019)

His story is rather similar to Collin's story so i expect they are aware of every possible outcome or possibility here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2019)

Theisticle said:


> I’m glad he prevented two people from being murdered but find the whole HnH circle jerk around Robbie Mullen. In this act people have forgotten he was a member of National Action *before* it was proscribed. He didn’t make contact with Collins for 2 years if you match up the timelines. He joined the group because he’d been intoxicated in far-right ideology since his early teens. The dispatches documentary was interesting because it revealed that he didn’t really disavow NA or their views. Are we really going to praise Nazis for doing something morally correct for a change? I’m very sceptical that he’s changed his views. I think it’s naive of HnH to fundraise to take this guy into schools. It all reeks of how Quilliam handled Yaxley-Lennon in the beginning.


Didn't find collins' conversion narrative persuasive either


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 3, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Didn't find collins' conversion narrative persuasive either



I agree. There’s something about Collins I still find deeply unpleasant. He likes to play the expert but I refuse to trust anyone who does not write Nazi as a common noun.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 3, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Didn't find collins' conversion narrative persuasive either


Wasn't his brother a main player in AFA ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Wasn't his brother a main player in AFA ?


Don't know


----------



## likesfish (Apr 4, 2019)

Touts aren't nice people even if they are working for you. 
  A normal reasonable person wouldn't have anything to do with national action.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2019)

likesfish said:


> Touts aren't nice people even if they are working for you.
> A normal reasonable person wouldn't have anything to do with national action.


I think it's schiller who says the enemy loves the treason but despises the traitor


----------



## M Testa (Apr 4, 2019)

Theisticle said:


> I agree. There’s something about Collins I still find deeply unpleasant. He likes to play the expert but I refuse to trust anyone who does not write Nazi as a common noun.



met him several times and he is genuine. his book is entertaining stuff and it tells how Gable worked on Collins for quite some time. People don't have sudden Damascene conversions, it is a gradual shift from 1 mode of thinking/believing to another, which is a difficult transition i'd have thought.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2019)

M Testa said:


> met him several times and he is genuine. his book is entertaining stuff and it tells how Gable worked on Collins for quite some time. People don't have sudden Damascene conversions, it is a gradual shift from 1 mode of thinking/believing to another, which is a difficult transition i'd have thought.


a gradual shift from being a racist to being an anti-racist
a gradual shift from being a fascist to being an anti-fascist

my recollection of the book is that at no point does mc ever say 'i saw being a racist was wrong', ray hill does - but not iirc collins.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2019)

Larry O'Hara


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 4, 2019)

How can you infiltrate a movement you were part of since 2015 and only contacted HOPE not Hate in 2017? Antisemitism, glorifying the murder of Jo Cox, homophobia, and Islamophobia all fine. Just don’t threaten to kill an MP. 

Hope Not Hate spy played key role in stopping far-right plot to murder MP


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2019)

Theisticle said:


> How can you infiltrate a movement you were part of since 2015 and only contacted HOPE not Hate in 2017? Antisemitism, glorifying the murder of Jo Cox, homophobia, and Islamophobia all fine. Just don’t threaten to kill an MP.
> 
> Hope Not Hate spy played key role in stopping far-right plot to murder MP


it's much the same as the 'conversion' collins puts in his book, where he doesn't come out at any point and say 'the politics of the nf were a pile of shit', it's a similar aversion to violence after the library incident. yer man in this case hasn't said 'i distance myself from my former politics' that i've seen, he's just said 'i wasn't too up for people getting killed', which tbh is a peculiar attitude for a fairly longstanding member of na to take. i wonder whether he might not have some skeletons in the closet which he has been able to keep squirrelled away by his being the teller of tales, possibly preventing other, perhaps less complimentary, narratives being heard.


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 4, 2019)

I think this is his VK account Robbie Jones


----------



## likesfish (Apr 4, 2019)

Ego, ideogy, money, sex and fear are the typical reasons  you get agents.

Thinking all darkies or whatever should be killed and actually having what  that entails rubbed in your face might be the wake up cal
l he needed.
 A dedicated antifacist wouldn't get anywhere near NA.


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 4, 2019)

Mullen shouldn’t be allowed to enter schools in my opinion, HnH are woefully naive. This is just a cash grab for them. Laughable to suggest they broke NA up. It was falling apart since proscription and the jailing of key members like Wayne Bell for unrelated offences.


----------



## Theisticle (May 8, 2019)

This makes me pretty uncomfortable. A shameful cash-in.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2019)

Theisticle said:


> This makes me pretty uncomfortable. A shameful cash-in.



do you honestly think collins will earn a mint off that?

what's really shameful is it's likely to be shit


----------



## Theisticle (May 8, 2019)

Probably shit and full of typos most likely. Just don’t like the fact they are going to rewrite a neo-Nazi’s redemptive arc


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 17, 2019)

Life sentence for Jack Renshaw.


----------



## M Testa (May 18, 2019)

having seen this little sack of shite, a vicious racist and neo-nazi, the idea of him carrying out the attack is a pretty unbelievable. he's about 6 stone and a stick insect. 20 years seems a bit excessive and appears to be a warning.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 18, 2019)

M Testa said:


> having seen this little sack of shite, a vicious racist and neo-nazi, the idea of him carrying out the attack is a pretty unbelievable. he's about 6 stone and a stick insect. 20 years seems a bit excessive and appears to be a warning.



Hard to think of a situation where the state would be lenient when it came to paedo neo-nazis plotting to kill MPs.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2019)

M Testa said:


> having seen this little sack of shite, a vicious racist and neo-nazi, the idea of him carrying out the attack is a pretty unbelievable. he's about 6 stone and a stick insect. 20 years seems a bit excessive and appears to be a warning.


Bit lenient if you ask me


----------



## M Testa (May 18, 2019)

i just doubt he would have been capable of such an act. he's a weedy little scrote and a coward who hid behind others.


----------



## Serge Forward (May 18, 2019)

Nah, you don't have to be a brick shithouse to do violence with a big fucking sword. Also planned to off a cop... plus paedo stuff will extend any sentence.


----------



## M Testa (May 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> do you honestly think collins will earn a mint off that?what's really shameful is it's likely to be shit


let me tell you that unless you have a strong seller you make very little money off books. especially if it is aimed at the anti-fascist/anti-racist movement who don't number in the 10s of 1,000s. 
if it appeals to a wider audience and can be marketed eslewhere (america, canada, aussies etc) that can help but 
journalism pays more and much quicker for less work. books pay off when the yearly royalties come in.  if at all.


----------



## M Testa (May 18, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> Nah, you don't have to be a brick shithouse to do violence with a big fucking sword. Also planned to off a cop... plus paedo stuff will extend any sentence.


 yeah i know, you're right. i think it's the disproportional sentencing that bothers me. sentences for planning to kill someone and killing someone should hardly be equated. he's a nasty little douche-bag but getting 20 years in your early 20s is a fucken nightmare. especially if there's the small fact of grooming involved.


----------



## M Testa (May 18, 2019)

if he does the whole 20, he will have spent as much time in prison as he has out of it. 
he has 3 options: appeal to reduce sentence; he gets attacked; or he tops himself. 
anyone who has had anything to do with him know he is a weedy little scumbag so 3 looks likely.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (May 18, 2019)

Apparently he had supporters in court, who he did a nazi salute to after being sentenced. I know the far right has form for having secret nonces in their ranks, but surely after being convicted of grooming in a widely publicised trial, you'd think all his mates would cut ties? For appearances sake, if nothing else.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2019)

M Testa said:


> let me tell you that unless you have a strong seller you make very little money off books. especially if it is aimed at the anti-fascist/anti-racist movement who don't number in the 10s of 1,000s.
> if it appeals to a wider audience and can be marketed eslewhere (america, canada, aussies etc) that can help but
> journalism pays more and much quicker for less work. books pay off when the yearly royalties come in.  if at all.


Yeh 92% of books never make a penny for their authors


----------



## likesfish (May 18, 2019)

If you plan politically motivated violence the state will clobber you although "national action" and political is pushing things there about as political as the celebrities on Sas are you tough enough were celebrities


----------



## ddraig (May 18, 2019)

likesfish said:


> If you plan politically motivated violence the state will clobber you although "national action" and political is pushing things there about as political as the celebrities on Sas are you tough enough were celebrities


you don't think being nazis in public and online is political??


----------



## M Testa (May 18, 2019)

NA never achieved anything politically. even the neo-nazis thought they were too high profile and reckless regarding photos of them clowning around. anti-fascists quickly built files on them & knew where they knocked around. NA never even came close to a confrontation with anti-fascist militants.


----------



## M Testa (May 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh 92% of books never make a penny for their authors


im assuming you're taking the piss with this figure. i commented about this - 'do you honestly think collins will earn a mint off that?' - cos he wont 'make a mint' as it is too 'niche market.' he will probably sell a few 1000.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2019)

M Testa said:


> im assuming you're taking the piss with this figure. i commented about this - 'do you honestly think collins will earn a mint off that?' - cos he wont 'make a mint' as it is too 'niche market.' he will probably sell a few 1000.


I am not taking the piss
I read your comment


----------



## likesfish (May 18, 2019)

ddraig said:


> you don't think being nazis in public and online is political??



just not very effective


----------



## MrSpikey (May 18, 2019)

M Testa said:


> 20 years seems a bit excessive and appears to be a warning.



The main charge against him was for preparing acts of terrorism. The sentencing guidelines for that depend in part on how close to completion the preparations were, but as it seems the intention was to kill more than one person, the sentence was always going to be life, the minimum term being the only variable. The range for that would be 15-30 years, so on that basis, 20 doesn't appear excessive.


----------



## MrSpikey (May 18, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> plus paedo stuff will extend any sentence.



He already got sentenced to 16 months for that last year.


----------



## Rosemary Jest (May 18, 2019)

How come there is a strong correlation between noncery and the far right?

Wrong uns attract wrong uns maybe?


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 19, 2019)

likesfish said:


> about as political as the celebrities on Sas are you tough enough were celebrities



Interesting choice of pop culture reference. 




M Testa said:


> NA never achieved anything politically.



Wrong.


----------



## M Testa (May 19, 2019)

what did they achieve? what did they do apart from dick around, get arrested and act like twats? what did they build? what mass movement or working class movement did they organise? more criminal than political. 
they attracted nutters, nonces (fleming, renshaw), were too high profile and noisy, they alienated many on the far right, were inadequate when it came to anti-fascists. then they were banned and fell apart thru grassing and court cases.


----------



## M Testa (May 19, 2019)

Rosemary Jest said:


> How come there is a strong correlation between noncery and the far right? Wrong uns attract wrong uns maybe?



300 hits in the last 24 hours. this article has been hit well over 1000 times: 

2019 Far Right Sex Offenders Update

i assume many are far right checking if they're on it yet.


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 19, 2019)

M Testa said:


> what did they achieve? what did they do apart from dick around, get arrested and act like twats? what did they build? what mass movement or working class movement did they organise? more criminal than political.
> they attracted nutters, nonces (fleming, renshaw), were too high profile and noisy, they alienated many on the far right, were inadequate when it came to anti-fascists. then they were banned and fell apart thru grassing and court cases.



Been pretty effective at promoting racist and fascist ideology.


----------



## likesfish (May 19, 2019)

to who?
 even the Brexshit party is more farages personality cult than a far-right party and ukips descent into partying with fascists saw them annihilated at council elections.
  nothing like the French national front


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2019)

M Testa said:


> 300 hits in the last 24 hours. this article has been hit well over 1000 times:
> 
> 2019 Far Right Sex Offenders Update
> 
> i assume many are far right checking if they're on it yet.


What would improve your list would be linking to articles about each conviction


----------



## klang (May 19, 2019)

Rosemary Jest said:


> How come there is a strong correlation between noncery and the far right?


little respect for the vulnerable, superior complex, lack of empathy, male dominance, etc?


----------



## Rosemary Jest (May 19, 2019)

littleseb said:


> little respect for the vulnerable, superior complex, lack of empathy, male dominance, etc?



All of those things seem likely. It's almost as if far right thinking is sociopathic, even an 'illness', if you will.

It's certainly one of societies ills.


----------



## M Testa (May 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> What would improve your list would be linking to articles about each conviction


yeah i did it at 1st but it made the thing unreadable with huge ribbons of text cutting thru it. 
the list was already getting too long (unfortunately).
the entries have all been cross referenced, twice if not more times. 
if there are any queries i hope that folk google the names.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 24, 2019)

M Testa said:


> yeah i did it at 1st but it made the thing unreadable with huge ribbons of text cutting thru it.
> the list was already getting too long (unfortunately).
> the entries have all been cross referenced, twice if not more times.
> if there are any queries i hope that folk google the names.


here's a handy tip. you don't need to post in a url to make a hyperlink.


----------



## M Testa (Jun 18, 2019)

more neo-nazi teens jailed:
Teen neo-Nazis jailed over terror offences


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Aug 29, 2019)

Theisticle said:


> I’m glad he prevented two people from being murdered but find the whole HnH circle jerk around Robbie Mullen. In this act people have forgotten he was a member of National Action *before* it was proscribed. He didn’t make contact with Collins for 2 years if you match up the timelines. He joined the group because he’d been intoxicated in far-right ideology since his early teens. The dispatches documentary was interesting because it revealed that he didn’t really disavow NA or their views. Are we really going to praise Nazis for doing something morally correct for a change? I’m very sceptical that he’s changed his views. I think it’s naive of HnH to fundraise to take this guy into schools. It all reeks of how Quilliam handled Yaxley-Lennon in the beginning.


I think its rather more than naivety actually, as will be disclosed.


----------



## likesfish (Aug 30, 2019)

thank fuck these shits cant easily get hold of firearms like the same sort of scum does in the states


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Aug 31, 2019)

likesfish said:


> thank fuck these shits cant easily get hold of firearms like the same sort of scum does in the states


We’re they serious ‘terrorists’ you might have thought they would of course...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 31, 2019)

Larry O'Hara said:


> We’re they serious ‘terrorists’ you might have thought they would of course...



I did this argument upthread and it didn’t gain traction.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Aug 31, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I did this argument upthread and it didn’t gain traction.


That does not make it untrue: the truth rarely gains ‘traction’ in my experience...


----------



## Rimbaud (Aug 31, 2019)

Rosemary Jest said:


> How come there is a strong correlation between noncery and the far right?
> 
> Wrong uns attract wrong uns maybe?



I think most of the time paedophilia comes from an obsession with power relations and a desire to be in a dominant role, and these same character traits also lead people into far right politics.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 31, 2019)

Larry O'Hara said:


> That does not make it untrue: the truth rarely gains ‘traction’ in my experience...



It’s not even difficult to arrive at that. 
What’s the difference between a terrorist and a fantasist?


----------



## likesfish (Sep 1, 2019)

I think if the scum could walk into Asda and tool up they would.
  Fortunately their ambitions outweigh their ability


----------



## jimmer (Sep 2, 2019)

These weapons were found at properties linked to National Action member Mikko Vehvilainen.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 2, 2019)

A (small and cheap) book coming out soon: The Trouble With National Action

Looks good.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 2, 2019)

jimmer said:


> These weapons were found at properties linked to National Action member Mikko Vehvilainen.



Teeny knife envy.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Dec 5, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> View attachment 185758
> 
> A (small and cheap) book coming out soon: The Trouble With National Action
> 
> Looks good.



Interesting certainly, but as will be seen not quite grasping the full ‘context’ as the author might say.  For the moment I would say given he repeatedly cites Matthew Collins atrocious book on NA to the effect that NA were ‘terrorist’ without critically examining the term, on what does he base his opposition to their proscription then?

Hayes makes much of his former AFA membership: does he not remember that AFA proscribed Searchlight, from which HNH have sprung and are definitely no improvement. More soma anyone?


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Dec 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s not even difficult to arrive at that.
> What’s the difference between a terrorist and a fantasist?



On one level the former has realistic plans and seeks to put them into action as part of a strategy designed to produce real political effects.

The latter just has lots of ideas and verbiage but no real intent or capability.

On another level, as I have always believed, the term terrorist is at best useless; used to refer to political violence you disapprove of. Thus Bin laden was termed a terrorist but Bush/Blair whose war in Iraq killed maybe 250,000 and was based on lies are not using standard terminology. Ludicrous.


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 5, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> View attachment 185758
> 
> A (small and cheap) book coming out soon: The Trouble With National Action
> 
> Looks good.



Read it, not the best. An expanded rehash of his article for Freedom.  It's critical of the liberal HnH approach to anti fascism, and demands (of course) a more militant approach,  while ignoring almost entirely the impact  militant anti fascism had on NA.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Dec 5, 2019)

Larry O'Hara and Red Sky i have to confess I’ve not read it yet myself but it sounds like some critical reviews would be good.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Dec 8, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Larry O'Hara and Red Sky i have to confess I’ve not read it yet myself but it sounds like some critical reviews would be good.


That will be coming...


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 5, 2020)

'ello 'ello 'ello









						'Neo-Nazi' Metropolitan Police officer arrested on suspicion of terror offences
					

Constable accused of being member of banned terrorist group




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 5, 2020)

Fozzie Bear said:


> 'ello 'ello 'ello
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bloody hell..


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 9, 2020)




----------



## hitmouse (Apr 26, 2021)

Anyone know anything about this one?








						South Yorkshire man charged with terrorism offences and possession of Class A drugs
					

A 55-year-old man from South Yorkshire has been charged with terrorism and drug offences, as part of an intelligence-led investigation into right wing terrorism.




					www.thestar.co.uk
				












						North Anston man accused of right-wing terror offences is remanded into custody
					

A North Anston man accused of terrorism and drug offences, as part of a probe into right-wing terrorism, has been remanded into custody after appearing at court.




					www.worksopguardian.co.uk
				




Putting it here cos I'm guessing most right-wing stuff that gets you terrorism charges may well be linked in some way to the NA family tree, could be unrelated though?


----------



## Shechemite (Apr 26, 2021)

PA are active in Yorkshire, and there’s plenty of local history for fash to exploit in Rotherham.


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 26, 2021)

MadeInBedlam said:


> PA are active in Yorkshire, and there’s plenty of local history for fash to exploit in Rotherham.


Yeah, definitely, but I didn't really think most PA activity was the kind of stuff that gets you terror charges? Same goes for most of the stuff connected to the EDL/Casuals/Yorkshire's Finest/P&M/Tommy fan club lineage, who were the groups most active around Rotherham. Although I suppose it's all speculation until more details are confirmed.


----------



## Shechemite (Apr 26, 2021)

well Towler and Mark ‘do you want to play video games with me autistic children’ Collet have both had their bank accounts closed, based on their own er accounts.

I doubt either the anti-grooming/Muslim groups or PA were involved in this directly, it’s all gateway stuff though isn’t it? Hence PA and other European new right types working so hard to recruit disaffected ‘counter jihadists’ and er kiddies with developmental disabilities.

not really sure what point I’m making here just thinking out loud


----------



## likesfish (Apr 26, 2021)

8ball said:


> Teeny knife envy.


the pump-action shotgun is a Firearm certificate only weapon so thats illegal as hell
the rifles an air rifle and a cheap one at that.
knives are legal
knuckle dusters arent


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## 8ball (Apr 26, 2021)

Not many alternative uses for knuckle dusters.


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## Larry O'Hara (Apr 26, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Anyone know anything about this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for this: the name doesn't ring a bell, though will inquire.  His age, however, and that of the other charged (55/40) make an NA connection unlikely: they tended to be younger.   And the charges (leaving aside the drugs) are not related to organisational membership but possession of a document: and as a recent trial shows, having the Anarchist Cook-Book can get you a long sentence...


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## Shechemite (Apr 26, 2021)

I think it’s optimistic to think that weirdos need a particular organisation to get into weird stuff


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 11, 2021)

Another one bites the dust. 









						Neo-Nazi group co-founder jailed for eight years - BBC News
					

A judge says Ben Raymond used far-right propaganda material to "groom" potential followers.




					www.bbc.co.uk


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## ddraig (Dec 11, 2021)

8 years!


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## ddraig (May 4, 2022)

awww poor little boy








						National Action co-founder wanted white Britain, jury hears
					

The UK government banned the neo-Nazi organisation after it "terrorised" towns across the country.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




On doing a nazi salute at concentration camp and celebrating murder of Jo Cox



> Mr Davies admitted posing for the photo, alongside Mark Jones, a convicted member of National Action, but said that he was "not proud" of it.
> He described the gesture as a "completely spontaneous action" which he later felt "ashamed of."





> The jury previously heard that members of National Action "celebrated" the murder of Jo Cox MP when she was killed in her constituency in June 2016.
> Mr Davies told the court that he had not agreed or been involved with Twitter posts put out by National Action accounts that "celebrated" her murder.
> The defendant added: "I felt bad that she died, I feel sorry for her kids, I feel sorry for her husband."





> When asked whether he shared the views of Jo Cox's killer, Thomas Mair, Mr Davies described him as "a crazy man" who committed "a nonsensical act."


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## hitmouse (May 5, 2022)

ddraig said:


> awww poor little boy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To commemorate the occasion, here's my favourite Alex Davies story, about the time he turned up to do police station support for the arrestees at a Swansea White Pride march, realised there were antifascists in the police station listening to his phone call so he started talking about how much he respected them, then legged it.


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## ddraig (May 5, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> To commemorate the occasion, here's my favourite Alex Davies story, about the time he turned up to do police station support for the arrestees at a Swansea White Pride march, realised there were antifascists in the police station listening to his phone call so he started talking about how much he respected them, then legged it.


Ai!
I was at that and NA were being weird pretending to be black block and having a pic before running off


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## ddraig (May 19, 2022)

More on Alex and chums








						National Action: How Swansea neo-Nazi ran two terror groups
					

Alex Davies has been convicted of being a member of a banned terror group which he founded.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				







> Alex Davies was described as "the founder, the galvaniser, the recruiter", and would welcome fellow neo-Nazis to Swansea, take them for days out in Mumbles and for ice cream.
> He jokingly told jurors: "The life of a terrorist."





> Prosecutors and counter terror police believe Alex Davies is unique in British history for founding two far-right terrorist organisations.
> First National Action, and then the "continuity group" as it was described in court, NS131. They are organisations that now sit alongside the likes of so-called Islamic State, the IRA and Al-Qaeda.





> It was put to Alex Davies in court: "You are a neo-Nazi, yes?"
> He replied: "Sure."


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## hitmouse (May 19, 2022)

Would not envy the job of the defence lawyer who presumably had to argue that the founder of National Action was not a member of National Action?


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## DaveCinzano (May 19, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Would not envy the job of the defence lawyer who presumably had to argue that the founder of National Action was not a member of National Action?


A case of Magritte British patriot pipes down


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## The39thStep (May 19, 2022)

Nation Action had links with Azov both through their international front organisation Misanthropic Division and with Mark Jones , partner of Miss Hitler, visiting Azovs HQ  in 2017.


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## hitmouse (May 19, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Nation Action had links with Azov both through their international front organisation Misanthropic Division and with Mark Jones , partner of Miss Hitler, visiting Azovs HQ  in 2017.


Fairly visible in this picture from that article:

That blackboard in the background is a 10/10 brilliant comedy detail, though.


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## Magnus McGinty (May 19, 2022)

Looks like Thrash Metal album art.


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 7, 2022)

Alex Davies jailed









						Alex Davies: Founder of neo-Nazi group National Action jailed for eight-and-a-half years
					

Alex Davies was described by the prosecution as the "extremist's extremist" who had a unique place as an individual who founded two different far-right groups both banned under terror laws. He was found guilty in May.




					news.sky.com


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## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Alex Davies jailed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


turned out nice again


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## The39thStep (Sep 20, 2022)

New series on Hope Not Hates infiltration of them

​


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## Larry O'Hara (Oct 5, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> New series on Hope Not Hates infiltration of them
> 
> ​



Interesting certainly, dubious defintely: yet another attempt to launder the reputation of a likely MI5 asset (Mullen). Ask yourself this: if Renshaw hadnt intended to kill Rosie Cooper/boasted about it, how much more would Mullen have done to facilitate Continuity NA. He was not a whistleblower so much as directed source: which comes out for sure in his CTU interrogation (which I have read). Why was he given legal immunity when he did not reveal full details of his actions (a prerequisite for immunity deals to be legally valid). I suggest Box 500 and their Hope Not Hate errand-persons know the answer. I do not for one minute doubt Renshaw planned to kill Cooper: but this should not distract from the efforts of Mullen and his controllers to get Helm targeted to draw attention away from himself. On his own, Mullen couldn’t direct a stream of piss vertically, but of course he himself was a directed source and Renshaws plans an ideal get out of going to jail card. None of these questions will even be asked by the fawning mainstream media, who even now repeated the lie Collins was ever in the BNP….Plus ca change la meme chose


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## The39thStep (Oct 5, 2022)

Saw all but the last episode yesterday and spotted the Collins BNP claim


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## Larry O'Hara (Oct 5, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Saw all but the last episode yesterday and spotted the Collins BNP claim


Will be watching the rest soon. The BNP claim is especially stupid as even the Guardian years ago printed a retraction. It does illustrate that Collins lies as he breathes, like Lowles/Gable.


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