# New Brixton 'Then and Now' pics



## editor (Dec 1, 2003)

Five more 'then and nows' for your delectation!

Electric Avenue by Atlantic Rd (1960 -> 2003) 

Electric Avenue towards Brixton Rd (1921 -> 2003) 

Brixton Theatre (1889 -> 2003) 

Recruiting for the Second World War (1940 -> 2003) 

Old dairy, Canterbury Rd/Pope's Road (1912 -> 2003)


----------



## hatboy (Dec 1, 2003)

These really are an amazingly effective way to see exactly what was where in the past.  Really worthwhile. I love 'em.


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2003)

Cheers.

It's a shame the old dairy building has been lost. 

It looked like a striking piece of original architecture, now replaced by a bland 'nothing' building of no architectural significance.


----------



## Griff (Dec 1, 2003)

Cool pics.


----------



## Ol Nick (Dec 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by editor _
> *Cheers.
> 
> It's a shame the old dairy building has been lost.
> ...


It looks not unlike a fire station.

At all hours of the day the streets of Brixton would ring with the bells of the emergency milk float. Mongolfier balloons would buzz local malefactors and would-be yuppies would dream of the fine office building that would one day stand there.

_"You young chaps there on Coldharbour Lane! Turn that bloody concertina down, can't you!"_


----------



## lang rabbie (Dec 2, 2003)

Thanks again Mike.    It was a thought-provoking to see non-white faces for the first time in one of the "then" pictures from forty years ago.   Am I right to think that Lambeth doesn't hold many images of that post-Windrush vintage?   
Electric Avenue 1960 pic


----------



## leftistangel (Dec 3, 2003)

*.*

As always, most interesting to see these comparisons. Why were we so keen to get rid of both trams and trees? Imagine how much pleasenter all our cities would be if we'd kept them. Everything looks so much cleaner on the old images.


----------



## editor (Dec 4, 2003)

Two more: Brixton Theatre and Opera House  (1905)  and a more recent one: Cooltan (1995) 

leftistangel - one of the reasons why the trams went was because they used to run in the middle of the road which made things dangerous for passengers alighting and caused huge congestion to the rising road traffic.


----------



## jayeola (Dec 4, 2003)

Keep it up chaps!


----------



## Ol Nick (Dec 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by editor _
> *Two more: Brixton Theatre and Opera House  (1905)  and a more recent one: Cooltan (1995) *


It's great to see the progress they've made with the Cooltan building.



> _Originally posted by editor _
> *leftistangel - one of the reasons why the trams went was because they used to run in the middle of the road which made things dangerous for passengers alighting and caused huge congestion to the rising road traffic. *


True. But they ran continuously in Brussels with precisely those problems. And they still do. It's illegal to pass a tram on the inside, and not many traffic manoeuvres are illegal in Brussels.


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2003)

Even after a few beers, I still can't help getting excited by old Brixton images!

I've just found a 1970s picture of the Empress Theatre so have added it to the Then and Now  page.

What a shame this fine theatre/cinema is no longer with us...


----------



## pooka (Dec 6, 2003)

Looking at the additional pic. reminds me that it's ages since I've seen a Bingo Hall, anywhere. They used to litter the country.

What do all the erstwhile bingo players do these days? The Lottery is hardly a substitute. Or is it a case of "All the Eights, Pearly Gates", and they've all died off?


----------



## lang rabbie (Dec 6, 2003)

*Bingo*

Many of Brixton's remaining bingo addicts head down to Streatham to the latest incarnation of the former Streatham Hill Theatre (Having been sold off by Mecca, it was trading as Mayfair bingo, but recently changed name again.)   The spectacular building interior is now listed - not that that saved the Streatham ABC from the monopolistic tendencies of Odeon.   

And I assume that the Gala in Camberwell Road (latterly a Mecca, previously the Regal Cinema) is still going?

Independent Bingo operators operating out of old cinemas are now under threat from a move to "out of town" bingo operators -I think that there's one at Garratt Lane in Wandsworth.

_From the Government's gambling review a few years ago - can seem to get link this pdf on www.culture.gov.uk to condense down using tinyurl. _


> 8.22 The Bingo Association reports that whilst the majority of “new builds ” are attracting over 5,000 admissions a
> week,over two-fifths of clubs are not generating  sufficient admissions to bring them into profit.  Many of the clubs are not meeting the expected admissions targets and have capacities which far outweigh for their usage.  Nearly two-thirds of “new build ” clubs are owned by the two largest bingo operators,Gala and Mecca.A further 20%are owned by medium-sized operators.The largest operators are often able to offset losses made within one part of their operation against another,in anticipation of profits in the long term.   A significant majority of traditional and neighbourhood club operators are single-site operators.  There has been industry concern that such companies cannot sustain continued losses.



There are reports of a bingo revival among 16-25 year olds - any urbanites want to fess up to this vice on the board?


----------



## TeeJay (Dec 7, 2003)

Really great pictures editor! Thanks


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2003)

Two more for your delectation:

Electric Lane/Coldharbour Lane  and
Electric Lane/ Rushcroft Road


----------



## hatboy (Dec 10, 2003)




----------



## lang rabbie (Dec 10, 2003)

More great contrasts.  Thanks again for your efforts.

Pity that it's so much more difficult to find street urchins to pose for you these days 

More seriously, is there any hint at Lambeth Archives why on earth the original photos were taken?  Electric Lane must always have been one of the least interesting thoroughfares in Brixton.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lang rabbie _
> *More seriously, is there any hint at Lambeth Archives why on earth the original photos were taken?  Electric Lane must always have been one of the least interesting thoroughfares in Brixton. *


 Oy! I resemble that remark!

I'm always taking pictures of uninteresting thoroughfares, grotty stations, knackered buildings and the hum drum...


----------



## lang rabbie (Dec 10, 2003)

> _Originally posted by editor _
> *Oy! I resemble that remark!
> 
> I'm always taking pictures of uninteresting thoroughfares, grotty stations, knackered buildings and the hum drum... *



[MASSAGES EDITORS EGO]  _But your photos themselves are always full of interest! _[/MASSAGES EDITORS EGO]

I still would like to know who took the 1929 photos and why - was it to mark the passing of an era before the tarmac was laid?


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2003)

I've been busy!
Here's a new set of lovingly compiled photos:

Brixton Station Road/Valentia Road 

Station Road café 

Brixton Station Road/Brixton Road 

Brixton Station Road/Pope's Road 

Station Rd Railway arches 

Dorrell Place/Brixton Road street crossing 

Electric Avenue market view 

Electric Avenue, Christmas 

Enjoy!


----------



## poster342002 (Dec 19, 2003)

Wasn't the BHS (now Superdrug) premesis occupied by something called "Littlewoods" for a while back in the 80's?


----------



## hatboy (Dec 19, 2003)

These just get more interesting every time. Valentia Rd is a revelation - when are they gonna get rid of that hideous car park!

And the Christmas one of Electric Avenue shows up the sad state of both the repair of the street and the lack of Xmas lights. If Brixton wants to pull in the Christmas shopping crowds it's gonna have to do better than that.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2003)

Ooops! I forgot to add my current favourite: 
Barrington Rd Orphanage 

(that page isn't finished yet)


----------



## lang rabbie (Dec 20, 2003)

Fascinating stuff as ever, ed.

Barrington Road is a puzzler - I'd long wondered about those bits of stucco, which looked to have been plonked onto three ordinary houses around the turn of the 20th century.    Just how early did that part of Brixton decline from being built as villas for prosperous suburbanites for the Orphanage to be able to pick up three of them cheaply and convert them to institutional use?    

Perhaps the levels of pollution from the nearby viaduct had something to do with the rapid fall from grace?


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2003)

It's finally here - East Brixton station 'then and now'!


----------



## lang rabbie (Dec 20, 2003)

*Rare view of elusive East Brixton station*

It's no wonder the station is "elusive", it's natural habitat of tree filled leafy front gardens has been destroyed.    

Perhaps if we each sponsor a tree in Barrington Road, it may regenerate in time for our grandchildren to use it.


----------



## lang rabbie (Dec 20, 2003)

*East Brixton station*

I really do need a drink - I've started surfing railway history sites!







Still for all those nostalgic for the days of whatever - there is apparently now a book all about the brief history of overhead electrics -   publication details here 

Just to convince hatboy that not everything powered by an overhead caternary is necessarily elegant - here's what they looked like after a few years in service!

picture of the overhead electric service Victoria - London Bridge


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2003)

Aaaaand another!
Loughborough Park/Moorland Road

PS: while we're in spoddy railway mode there used to be a really strange signal box near Loughborough Junction - I'd love to give it the 'then and now' treatment but the site hosting the image  seems to have gone down - if you type in 'loughborough junction signal box' into google images you only get the low res thumbnail.

Anyone have a copy of the original?


----------



## Loki (Dec 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by editor _
> *and a more recent one: Cooltan (1995) *


Was nice to see a pic of Cooltan... I never went there but several of my friends raved about it...


----------



## hatboy (Dec 20, 2003)

Yes, emailed. 

I think the dirty train is still beautiful by the way. Are you sure Ken promised the reopening of East Brixton? I thought the promise was a new platform at Brixton's main railway station. Whichever though, it does seem to be a broken promise.


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2003)

> _Originally posted by hatboy _
> *
> I think the dirty train is still beautiful by the way. Are you sure Ken promised the reopening of East Brixton? I thought the promise was a new platform at Brixton's main railway station. Whichever though, it does seem to be a broken promise. *


 You could be right - that would explain the 'sloping platform' problems.

I've duly updated the caption...

Cheers for the photo - now I've got to go off and find where the thing was!


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2003)

Do you know what's really sad? If I had the money I'd be quite happy to have this sign  hanging in my hallway!

I noticed that an 'East Brixton' railway sign sold for 400-odd quid recently too. I would have loved that!


----------



## lang rabbie (Dec 20, 2003)

> I noticed that an 'East Brixton' railway sign sold for 400-odd quid recently too. I would have loved that!



Nice hint - just what evil cookies have you been installing on our machines, Mr Editor?    I was surfing around that site only a few minutes ago to see whether contributors to the Brixton forum might be able to get you one as a belated Christmas pressie.

Sorry, but it looks to be a beyond whip-round in the Albert though - not even a combined whip round with the real ale refusenik cells in the Beehive and Trinity will cough that much to reward you for your efforts.


----------



## editor (Dec 21, 2003)

The camera's been a-clicking, so here's three more, brand new 'then and nows'!

Ritzy/Brixton Theatre 

Electric Pavilion/Ritzy Cinema 

Atlantic Road/Brixton Road


..and one more....

Gresham Road Fire Station


----------



## hatboy (Dec 22, 2003)

Try and find a third one of the Ritzy, pre-renovation. Or a little more explanation that the facade has been reconstructed would be good. You can see the plaster swags (?) on the top are not quite the same as the original.

Previous to restoration the front of the Ritzy had a sort of chopped-off, simplified sixties look.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2003)

And now two pubs!

Prince of Wales 
..and the fabulous..
Prince Albert 

(hatboy: point noted and text updated re: the Ritzy facade)


----------



## editor (Dec 28, 2003)

And another pub!

George Canning/Hobgoblin


----------



## Loki (Dec 28, 2003)

heheh! Ta so much ed.. love your photos


----------



## editor (Jan 4, 2004)

Two more: 
Electric Avenue, 1956  showing the bomb damage to the south side of the street and another shot of the Tate Gardens, highlighting its current sorry state of affairs.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2004)

And here's another two! (me? Obsessive?!!)

Acre Lane (by Tescos)  and a 1966 shot of Market Row arcade (by Electric Avenue)


----------



## hatboy (Jan 7, 2004)

That Acre Lane one is laughably sad really. The first looks so pretty and the second a complete dump.

Anyway, can you get on with my Barnwell Rd one? Ta.

PS The spacing of...

"Recommended reference material and
 books about Brixton"

...on the Then/Now homepage is wrong, move the "and" to the next line. And you thought you were obsessive.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 7, 2004)

editor wrote





> me? Obsessive?!!


 Not at all! I love all this. Thank you.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Brixton Hatter _
> *editor wrote Not at all! I love all this. Thank you. *


 It's getting worse.

I went to my local opticians to replace my horrendously embarassing old glasses and ended up in a conversation about the old pub and shops that used to stand where the Barrier Block is now.

(That pub is proving remarkably hard to find details about)


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 7, 2004)

you're in danger of turning us all into your agents of local history acquisition. I don't think I'll be able to go into the local shop now without asking them about what their facade looked like in the 60s etc......


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Brixton Hatter _
> *you're in danger of turning us all into your agents of local history acquisition. I don't think I'll be able to go into the local shop now without asking them about what their facade looked like in the 60s etc......  *


 You should see the sad state I've become walking down the street - if I'm with people I turn into an impromptu history tour guide, "look! here's where the trams used to run..."  and if I'm alone, I'm constantly looking out for evidence of old gas lamps, shop signs and buildings...


----------



## hatboy (Jan 7, 2004)

That's how I always am. Can't help it. 

Mrs M says go to an OAP's lunch group and you'll find the name (was it Gresham Arms?) of that pub and some memories, even pictures maybe.

The Mayall Rd pic looking down past the Windsor Castle pub as was into what is now Bob Marley Way is in that book I gave you Mike, but not on Lambeth Landmark.


----------



## editor (Jan 11, 2004)

And there's more!

Windrush Square 

Central Brixton (1905) 

Trinity Asylum (Acre Lane) 

66-68 Atlantic Road


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 11, 2004)

*Henry Tate*

From Windrush Square caption



> Ironically, the Tate Library (next to the square) was a gift from the owner of Tate & Lyle whose company owned vast sugar plantations in Jamaica.



Henry Tate made his money as a sugar merchant and sugar refiner.    He died in 1899.  It was only after his death that his company Henry Tate & Sons merged with Abram Lyle & Sons in 1921, to form Tate and Lyle.   It was not until 1936/37 that this company purchased plantations in Trinidad and Jamaica.

Tate cannot be painted as a complete innocent of any taint of colonial exploitation.    He made his first fortune in Liverpool, a city whose wealth had been established on slavery, and the sugar trade that provided his refineries with its raw material continued to depend on the exploitation of a colonial workforce.

However, I suggest that Henry Tate should be detached from the hatred that the company bearing his name has attracted from the British left - which may owe more to domestic politics than colonialism.

Tate and Lyle's company history 

The Boys and Girls from the Whitestuff 

Goodbye Mr Cube - how Tate and Lyle campaigned for the Tories


----------



## editor (Jan 11, 2004)

*Henry Tate*



> _Originally posted by lang rabbie _
> *  It was not until 1936/37 that this company purchased plantations in Trinidad and Jamaica.*


 Thanks for that correction - looks like my online source was well dodgy!


----------



## hatboy (Jan 12, 2004)

I think you need a picture of "Brixton Fashion", what the coach depot became before demolition.

Also, you might want to say that many people feel the the commemoration of the Windrush era in the name “Windrush Square”, being just a name, (there's nothing else there) is an inadequate memorial to Caribbean immigration and there is a possibility that the area will be remodelled to improve this if the Raleigh Hall project goes ahead.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2004)

Before I was struck down with the dreaded lurgy last week, I was working through a new mini-series about shopfronts on Brixton Road.

I've finally felt well enough today to finish off the 'Then and Nows'  photographed to date - so take a look!
395 Brixton Road 
411 Brixton Road 
417 Brixton Road
506 Brixton Road


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 27, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> 506 Brixton Road


They even have the same upstairs window slightly open! (cue twilight zone music)

Editor - great photos and great captions/commentary. I hope people are paying attention since this is the kind of observation of architecture, heritage (physical history) and the urban environment that which seems to be lacking in the media at the moment (or at least in the same accessibly, funky and fresh format). I find this far more interesting than all the "prestige", "gimmicky" or "grand narrative" architectural stuff that is the norm in newspapers, on TV or in magasines.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2004)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> They even have the same upstairs window slightly open! (cue twilight zone music).


Well spotted! I'll add that to the commentary.

I'm getting completely absorbed in investigating the everyday details of these photos, and finding out how things relate to each other over the years!


----------



## Anna Key (Jan 27, 2004)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> I find this far more interesting than all the "prestige", "gimmicky" or "grand narrative" architectural stuff that is the norm in newspapers, on TV or in magasines.


Me too! There's something very down to earth, straighforward and non-patronising about them. You simply look at the photos and make your own mind up about whether the changes are for better or worse. It's a powerful and clever way of confronting people with architectural change and making them think about it.


----------



## hatboy (Jan 27, 2004)

Mike - nice pics again. Please can you do Barnwell? Oh and please can you respond to emails about all this that I send you. I know you are busy but I still like to hear even if you disagree with stuff I suggest. Can't recall specifics now but it's all in your inbox somewhere - the review of Mango Landing and Basement Jo's for instance (that Bootylove and Fuzzy kindly wrote).

Also, although I agree with you that Brixton needs some high-quality flagship new buildings, you seem quite conservative about new building in general.  336 Brixton Rd for instance I like.  Don't get too "grumpy old man." Not meanig to piss you off, but think about it.


----------



## hatboy (Jan 27, 2004)

"Outside, a makeshift - and rather shambolic-looking - stall sells mobile phone cards and accessories".

Seems a bit too down on the new things to me sometimes. Aren't all market stalls "shambolic", that is their nature. How about just "makeshift".


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2004)

hatboy said:
			
		

> "Outside, a makeshift - and rather shambolic-looking - stall sells mobile phone cards and accessories".
> 
> Seems a bit too down on the new things to me sometimes. Aren't all market stalls "shambolic", that is their nature. How about just "makeshift".


Nah. Bits were flapping off it when I was taking the photo!

Traditional market stalls have a wooden, wheeled base to them, but these ultra-cheapo ones are made up of plastic gazebos with plastic poles and definitely deserve to be called 'shambolic' in my book - one gust of wind and they'll be half a mile down the road!

I do think 336 is a disgrace. Cheap, ugly, architecturally bland and inexcusable for an 'conversation area' IMO - look at the buildings around it - it simply doesn't fit in! It would be more at home in the Halfords/Curry business park on Effra Road where modern, characterless functionality rules the roost.

As for your list: yes, I'll get round to it sometime but I've been in bed for the past week.


----------



## hatboy (Jan 27, 2004)

336 is quite old now you know. 60s probably, no longer "modern". I think it's a bit special and not the standard thing it first appears. However, as you know at that time the idea of conserving Brixton's architectural past was pretty out-there. "Pull it all down and chuck people out of their houses whether they like it or not" was the thinking*.

I think the Stockwell Park Estate is uglier in that stretch of Brixton Road btw.

Anyway, nag, nag, where's my dinner?   

*Nothing like today of course!!! (Lambeth are doing it now to St Agnes residents).

By the way I'd say the Candys fashion building is passable but not remarkable.


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 29, 2004)

Candy's -395 Brixton Road 

"Somehow costing a quarter of a million to build, this architecture-untroubled slab'o' concrete was somehow deemed totally suitable for the Conservation Area it inhabits"

I agree the amount of money thrown at this by Brixton Challenge to fill a gap on the shopping frontage was a disgrace.    But do polish up your architectural criticism, Mike.   

Unlike its predecessor - which almost certainly wasn't designed by an architect but by a skilled builder working from a standard pattern book - I'm fairly sure that this building did involve an architect, but not an especially talented one.   IMO it is mediocre post-modernism.

I think the idea was to have a frontage that gave out extra light from the open first floor and which could make a bit of a display.  Unfortunately, Candy fashions have never used the potential of the store. 

BTW - it isn't even "a slab of concrete" - I'm fairly sure that it's a lightweight steel framed structure with rendered walls.   It will be interesting to see how long it lasts without requiring a major refurbishment - in particular the roof.


----------



## hatboy (Jan 29, 2004)

Lang's right you know Mike. You know this is my passion. Candys is "mediocre post-modernism" and I remember seeing it go up and, yes, a steel frame with cladding is right too.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2004)

hatboy said:
			
		

> Lang's right you know Mike. You know this is my passion. Candys is "mediocre post-modernism" and I remember seeing it go up and, yes, a steel frame with cladding is right too.


Yes, of course it's steel framed. I saw it go up too.

But its bland expanse of featureless walls gives it the _impression_ of being made of slabs of concrete - hence my comment.

And I wouldn't call it post-modernism - I don't see enough architectural detail in there to qualify such a description. It just looks like a bland modern functional shopping unit of very little architectural worth.

Oh and seeing as everyone's in 'picky-picky' mode, the name of the shop is 'Candy of Brixton', not 'Candys' or  even 'Candy's'. 

So there!


----------



## hendo (Jan 29, 2004)

After we've closed the Living Bar we should shift our energies to getting Candy listed.


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 29, 2004)

Given the relative unpopularity of the New York forum, maybe its place should be taken by an "Architecture, Townscape and Urbanism" forum?

The rows between the modernists, Po-Mos and "All architects are oppressors of working people" activists would make P&P look like a vicar's tea party.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2004)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> Given the relative unpopularity of the New York forum


Oy! You leave that forum alone! One day that'll grow and the next time I go to NYC I'll have the same kind of instant full-on party scene that awaits American u75-ers arriving in Brixton!

(naturally, I was rather hoping to be contributing to that particular forum right now from somewhere a little more exotic than the Barrier Block)


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2004)

Here's a veritable feast of new Then and Nows!

Brixton Rd/Ferndale Rd (Bon Marche) 

Beehive pub 

Bon Marche 

Brixton Road by Station Rd 

Boots the Chemist 

Tram electrification works

Nike (spit!) store


----------



## hatboy (Jan 30, 2004)

Excellent as ever.


----------



## TeeJay (Jan 31, 2004)

Great photos! You manage to get them spot on - and not get hit by cars!

_"Established in 1856, the shop offers 'French Corsets' made to individual measurement"_ - Hehe, good to see Brixton has always had people with interesting tastes!


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2004)

Someone was nagging me a while ago that I hadn't done enough photos of Brixton Hill - so I trust they'll be pleased with today's work!

Brixton Windmill 
Windmill pub Blenheim Gardens 
Brixton Hill 
107 Brixton Hill (butchers) 
109 Brixton Hill (Ralph Sparks) 
111 Brixton Hill (Chemists)


----------



## lang rabbie (Feb 2, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> Someone was nagging me a while ago that I hadn't done enough photos of Brixton Hill - so I trust they'll be pleased with today's work!


I don't think I was the original nagger - but thanks anyway for some more great photos.

[starts reading small print of captions to revert to nitpicking type...]


----------



## TeeJay (Feb 2, 2004)

I love the way the old stores seemed to love to fill every single possible space with their own personalised advertising - including the bits below the windows next to the pavement. I also like the way they seemed to enjoy the whole "style" of their shopfronts, with lots of little flourishes and architectural details, even if they sometimes go a bit OTT.


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2004)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> I also like the way they seemed to enjoy the whole "style" of their shopfronts, with lots of little flourishes and architectural details, even if they sometimes go a bit OTT.


I think it's fair to say that the average Edwardian shopkeeper had a lot more pride in the appearance of their shop that their modern counterpart.

The demise of 'proper' sign writers and the rubbish, tacky plastic signs that have replaced their work doesn't help either.


----------



## TeeJay (Feb 2, 2004)

They also seemed to really like to personalise their shops, and almost "talk" to the public. Now it just seems to be a case of "one word" signs and not trying to be unique at all - actually trying to look like all other standardised high-street "brands".

After you have finished this series, maybe you could do a gallery of Brixton shop- cafe- and stall- fronts that actually still do make an effort? Just in case a casual observer thinks that all the creativity and individuality has gone out of Brixton? Kind of a photographic "footnote" as it were - finding the modern parallels and equivalents, even if they don't happen to be on the exact same location...


----------



## hendo (Feb 2, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> Nah. Bits were flapping off it when I was taking the photo!
> 
> 
> 'conversation area'



I like the idea of this.  Is it a special place where people gather to discuss the architectural merits of their area?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 3, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> Someone was nagging me a while ago that I hadn't done enough photos of Brixton Hill - so I trust they'll be pleased with today's work!
> 
> Brixton Windmill
> Windmill pub Blenheim Gardens
> ...




er, that would have been me.    Thanks very much though.  Brixton Hill no longer feels so neglected


----------



## Pie 1 (Feb 3, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> Before I was struck down with the dreaded lurgy last week, I was working through a new mini-series about shopfronts on Brixton Road.
> 
> I've finally felt well enough today to finish off the 'Then and Nows'  photographed to date - so take a look!
> 395 Brixton Road
> ...



Oooh, I do feel lucky - there's now, a then & now of my front door 
 

Thanks Mike, they're all fasinating as usual.


----------



## davesgcr (Feb 8, 2004)

This is all great stuff - and as a thanks to you Mike for doing this - I am prepared to loan you my personal copy of the "Wheels Used to Talk to us" - a social histroy of the LCC (Brixton) Tramways.Subject to an indemnity of about a million quid ! - lots of good photos there for even more comparisons such as the Pullman Court block outside the old Telford Avenue Tram Depot.(incidentallly you can see this destiantion on the front of some buses today as a hangover to the old tram blinds - being a saddo it gives me a great personal pleasure.  

Now - as a lad when I lived in Wimbledon I used to get the old 89 headcode loop train (4EPB) pre Thameslink to Blackfriars and in the Herne Hull area there were some old adverts still visible from the train advertising "The Tyne Main Coal Company" - and (I think) - "Burtons the 50 Shilling Tailor" - painted onto brick walls facing the railway - now this was more than 15 years ago and with the weathering over time - not to mention graffiti spraying  assholes this may now be gone - as there is a guy in NYC recording this dissapearing element of social history - dont you think this trivia (err vital historical data ought to be recorded before it goes.?

Keep up the work.Great stuff.


----------



## editor (Feb 22, 2004)

Two new 'uns: a film scene of the ever-elusive East Brixton railway station  and a turn of the century scene opposite Brixton tube station

Proving even more elusive is the pub that used to stand in the front garden of Southwyck House. I've finally tracked down its name: the 'Royal Veteran', but I've yet to see a photo of the place, or the shops next to it...


----------



## editor (Feb 22, 2004)

Just in case anyone's as obsessive as me about this, I've just found this page  on East Brixton with loads of photos, some taken as recently as 1975:


----------



## lang rabbie (Feb 22, 2004)

Congratulations - Hope the search for Royal Veteran images doesn't take as long.

I suppose I should have known that somebody in theSubterranea Britannica mob would have chapter and verse on this.    Hurrah for the single-mindedness of people like Nick Catford.  

BTW - I think more than a trace remains of the booking office - wasn' it in  under the arches in the building with polychrome brick windows arches that now forms part of Medusa.   That was the house style of the railway at the time the line was built - cf the south side of London Bridge Station


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2004)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> BTW - I think more than a trace remains of the booking office - wasn' it in  under the arches in the building with polychrome brick windows arches that now forms part of Medusa.


I wasn't sure about how much is left of the booking office - or even exactly where it was - but I've changed my reference, just to be sure.

It seems weird to think that the station lasted all the way up to 1976...


----------



## lang rabbie (Feb 23, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> It seems weird to think that the station lasted all the way up to 1976...


But looking at the 'photos of the platforms you can see why practically no-one used it to wait for a half-hourly (?) train to Victoria once the tube to Brixton operating every three minutes opened in 1973.   Hence the closure notice in the 1975 photo   Did it require a local enquiry or were there no serious objections?


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2004)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> Did it require a local enquiry or were there no serious objections?


I've no idea - but those were the dark days of British Rail where railways were well out of vogue. 

But I _definitely_ would have found use for it, and had it survived, it could have been integrated into a useful cross-south London link


----------



## TeeJay (Feb 23, 2004)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> But looking at the 'photos of the platforms you can see why practically no-one used it to wait for a half-hourly (?) train to Victoria once the tube to Brixton operating every three minutes opened in 1973.


But surely that line goes to Camberwell and on in that direction as well not up to Victoria like the main line does? Its more like an 'outer circle line' / cross London or 'south circular' railway than one that runs straight into town isn't it? (I've also heard that it is technically possible to run trains out west London in the other direction as well - maybe an A-Z would show the lines?)


----------



## lang rabbie (Feb 23, 2004)

TeeJay said:
			
		

> But surely that line goes to Camberwell and on in that direction as well not up to Victoria like the main line does? Its more like an 'outer circle line' / cross London or 'south circular' railway than one that runs straight into town isn't it?



It was on the South London Line -  London Bridge-Peckham Rye-Victoria, which was subject to creeping death by a thousand cuts until the South London Line Travellers Association was set up in the 1980s.    

My understanding was that Victoria was the destination of some 70% of East Brixton's passengers prior to the Victoria Line opening.   You can actually read the text at the bottom of the closure notice in the photo listing public transport alternatives - BR could argue that a route to London Bridge was provided by tube from Brixton to Stockwell and then Northern Line to London Bridge.


----------



## editor (Feb 29, 2004)

I wrote to the guy who took the pics of East Brixton station and I'm happy to say that he's let me use his images for two more 'then and now' pics:

East Brixton: overhead buildings 

East Brixton: station entrance


----------



## hatboy (Mar 1, 2004)

Can you please do the Barnwell Road one (I've sent the pic several times) and the one looking down Mayall Rd to Bob Marley Way (pic in book I gave you).

They can both go in the Atlantic/Railton section as they are both off there.

Please do this soon Mike. you said you would Thanks.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2004)

hatboy said:
			
		

> Can you please do the Barnwell Road one (I've sent the pic several times) and the one looking down Mayall Rd to Bob Marley Way (pic in book I gave you).


I will, when I get chance.

But there's no point sending me the picture more than once!


----------



## editor (May 17, 2004)

After much nudging and a-nagging by Mr Hatboy, I'm delighted to say that a trio of new 'Then and Nows' have just gone up:

Barnwell Road 
Mayall Road by Chauncer Road (looking north) 
Mayall Road (looking towards Herne Hill)


----------



## hendo (May 17, 2004)

Top pictures of Mayall Rd; (but isn't it the junction of Chaucer Rd?)

It was definitely a bomb which blew down the section that appears to be missing; I'm off to the London Archive soon to try and get pictures of the damage it did.

In the Lambeth archives you can trace the people who lived in those houses, for decades up to the war - then nothing. Eerie, and somehow brings the reality of war all the way home.


----------



## Ms T (May 17, 2004)

Great pics.  Must get hold of a copy of the Mayall Rd/Chaucer Rd one -- can you get them from the archives?


----------



## hatboy (May 18, 2004)

Good one Mike. Thanks for doing those.  

Re this:

"May 2004 The row of trees on the left hand side of Barnwell Road have grown so much over the past century that they almost completely obliterate the view! Obscured behind the foliage is the modern housing which replaced the Victorian terrace and the shop/pub is now a private residence. The shop and row of houses on the right have been replaced by late GLC housing". 

"GLC blocks of flats" would be more accurately descriptive than "GLC housing" I reckon. Also, not "modern housing" exactly. In fact an old people's home (late 80s/early 90s - perhaps better photographed when there are less leaves on those trees. In winter you can see it's the same trees and see the building behind). The shop/pub was only ever a shop. I remember it as a shop and remember the interior too. It wasn't a converted pub.

Maybe you could mention that one of the two turreted buildings in the distance remains on Railton road, and that relates to the pic of Railton by Effra Parade in which you can see the decorated, turreted corner buildings more clearly.

(Incidentally the other one blew up about 20 years ago in a gas explosion, leaving the turret flattened and unfolded in the road and bricks everywhere).


----------



## hatboy (May 18, 2004)

Oh yeah, just trying to help you make it accurate.  

Not Chancer or Chauncer Rd, but "Chaucer Rd" .  Also one of those pages has two identical links to "Chancer 2" - (whoever he is ?!)


----------



## lang rabbie (May 18, 2004)

More great pics, Mike

IIRC the reinstatement of the missing "turret"  was one of the townscape schemes promised by Brixton Challenge that never materialised.   (It was decribed I think as reinstatement of Mansard roof - a little bit of the Louvre in Railton Road!)  I think there was a plan for a housing association to convert the block above several shops in Railton Road.    

I obviously haven't looked closely when I've been through recently - did the block get refurbished - _sans Mansard _ - or is it still a wreck?


----------



## hatboy (May 18, 2004)

The gap is still there and the other shops have mostly been ruined with badly designed conversion into housing. The usual, you know.


----------



## editor (May 18, 2004)

Chers for the feedback: I've amended the text and corrected the cock ups. 

I haven't mentioned the turrets as I think they're just a bit too small in the picture, but if I can source a better photo, it would make a good 'then and now'.


----------



## hatboy (May 19, 2004)

Great work Mike. That description of Barnwell is better now. Still links to ChauNcer Road" all over the place.   It's "Chaucer".


----------



## editor (May 19, 2004)

hatboy said:
			
		

> Great work Mike. That description of Barnwell is better now. Still links to ChauNcer Road" all over the place.   It's "Chaucer".


Chancer, Chauncer, Chaucer, Schamncer.

I'm clearly having trouble with the name. 

But I've fixed it.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2004)

Some new Brixton history stuff has just gone up on the site:

Then and Nows:
Electric Avenue 
Prince of Wales architect's plan (1937) 

Lost entertainment venues:
Brixton Skating Rink 
Scala Theatre, Brixton Hill 

Anyone know where the rink was on on Effra Road?


----------



## Miss La (Sep 27, 2004)

Just amazing!

I love it when more of these fabulous photo's arrive on U75.

It just seems a shame that so many of these grand and majestic buildings are now home to KFC's and rubbish doscount clothes shops...

Where was the Ice Rink housed, that's such a great poster?!

Miss La x


----------



## lang rabbie (Sep 27, 2004)

I've just Googled to find the poem below again - I first found it on an unconnected search years ago.    The dates don't tally  



> In 1876 this poem was published in the magazine Punch,
> 
> "Lines Picked up at the Brixton Rink"
> 
> ...



Source


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 27, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> Some new Brixton history stuff has just gone up on the site:
> 
> Then and Nows:
> Electric Avenue
> ...




Not sure if it was where that bed place is (diagonally opposite the Hobcanning)


----------



## bromley (Sep 27, 2004)

Cool pictures, are you doing one of the tube station for when it's finally completed?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 27, 2004)

bromley said:
			
		

> Cool pictures, are you doing one of the tube station for when it's finally completed?




Who says it will ever be "finally completed" - that's wishful thinking


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2004)

Just a small update - I've added a few more old Theatre posters  here  and added this picture to the Brady's/Railway Hotel feature:







Any idea who Annie Allen was and why she was laying commemorative bricks?!


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2004)

Here's an interesting bit of history: Grand demo for A Park For Brixton


----------



## fanta (Sep 28, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> Just a small update - I've added a few more old Theatre posters  here  and added this picture to the Brady's/Railway Hotel feature:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've often wondered that too!


----------



## lang rabbie (Sep 28, 2004)

fanta said:
			
		

> I've often wondered that too!



And why is the inscription off centre - were there botch merchants in the stone cutting trade back then.


----------



## fanta (Sep 28, 2004)

A Google search of 1880+Annie Allen+Brixton brings up a reference for the Marxist historian CLR James. Are they linked? Curious.


----------



## Blunders500 (Sep 28, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> Here's an interesting bit of history: Grand demo for A Park For Brixton



Its good to see that Ladies were invited too! 

Someone mentioned that there si a records office in the area, does anybody know where this is and if it is open to the public?

Thanks


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2004)

Blunders500 said:
			
		

> Someone mentioned that there si a records office in the area, does anybody know where this is and if it is open to the public?


LAMBETH ARCHIVES
52 Knatchbull Road, SE5
020 7926 6076 (booking recommended)
Opening times: Mon 1pm - 8pm, Tues 10am - 6pm, Wed closed, Thurs 10am - 6pm, Fri 10am - 1 pm, Sat 9am - 5pm, Sun/Bank Hols closed.

More info: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/reference.html


----------



## layabout (Sep 29, 2004)

editor said:
			
		

> Here's an interesting bit of history: Grand demo for A Park For Brixton



Thats a mental poster innit?

"Ladies are also invited"


----------



## reubeness (Sep 29, 2004)

"Anyone know where the rink was on on Effra Road?"

The Skating Rink was up by the carpet shop over the road from the Hobgoblin, I used to go there when it was a roller skating rink - about 40yrs ago.
By the way I have some old photos of Brixton/Clapham especially Clapham Common and the paddling pool - my mum used to take me there when I was a baby. I was born in Solon Road, off Acre Lane - my mum used to work in the Sunlight Laundry Place, I attended Santley Primary School and we used the (now mosque) church hall on Stockwell Green for P.E.


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 6, 2005)

*More old pics...*

I don't think that I've posted up previously that almost all of the photo library of the GLC and its predecessor the London County Council is now online - with quite a few Brixton pics.






It is hidden away on a Euro-funded collaborative site The European Visual Archive  hosted in the Netherlands, which London Metropolitan Archives seem to be doing precious little to publicise.

http://www.eva-eu.org/en/


----------



## Bob (Jan 6, 2005)

There's a couple of good ones of Coldharbour lane - somewhere around Loughborough junction from the house numbers...


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2005)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> I don't think that I've posted up previously that almost all of the photo library of the GLC and its predecessor the London County Council is now online - with quite a few Brixton pics.


Woooargh! That's an excellent collection!

And that School of Building is fab!


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 6, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Woooargh! That's an excellent collection!



Can I send my apologies to Mike's nearest and dearest who won't see him for the next month while he pounds the streets of Brixton for a  new portfolio of "then and now" photos.


----------



## Bob (Jan 6, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Woooargh! That's an excellent collection!
> 
> And that School of Building is fab!



Where was the School of Building building? I assume it doesn't exist still - it must have been by the railway line somewhere - some of the photos of it are shot across the railway line...


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 6, 2005)

Bob said:
			
		

> Where was the School of Building building? I assume it doesn't exist still - it must have been by the railway line somewhere - some of the photos of it are shot across the railway line...



north side of Ferndale Road - it had a complicated site, with a block on Ferndale Road rebuilt after bomb damage that is now converted into flats, and the site once occupied by the enormous hall next to the railway which IIRC is behind houses further along the road.

Apparently, part of the original buildings was converted from a former public baths.



> The Brixton School of Building was opened by London County Council in 1904. The large number of building operatives in Camberwell and Lambeth and the need to provide space for large-scale practical work for them was sufficient to justify a specialist college. A site previously used by Lambeth Polytechnic in Ferndale Road was purchased for the school by London County Council in 1901. Old buildings were renovated and new ones erected, providing a central hall and large workshops for painting and decorating, carpentry and joinery and a drawing office. 643 students enrolled at the first session, with admission to practical classes restricted to those employed in the building trade. Classes were intended to supplement workshop practice rather than teach trades, and included stone carving, plasters' modelling, drawing for building trades' students, chemistry and physics of building materials, land surveying and levelling.
> 
> In 1906 a school of architecture was added. Some classes in building at other institutes were transferred to Brixton, and some classes such as wood and stone carving relocated to other colleges. Students in any professions allied to the building trades were later allowed to attend practical classes to receive general instruction, and admission to theoretical classes was extended to include those whose employment required knowledge of technical operations and processes. Demand for courses increased rapidly and a new extension was opened in 1909.


Source


----------



## Bob (Jan 6, 2005)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> north side of Ferndale Road - it had a complicated site, with a block on Ferndale Road rebuilt after bomb damage that is now converted into flats, and the site once occupied by the enormous hall next to the railway which IIRC is behind houses further along the road.
> 
> Apparently, part of the original buildings was converted from a former public baths.
> 
> ...



I think I can picture the place now. There's still a building on Ferndale road (in fact I think it still says 'school of building') - and I assume the flats are the ones by the Hubert Grove footbridge?


----------



## pooka (Jan 6, 2005)

Bob said:
			
		

> and I assume the flats are the ones by the Hubert Grove footbridge?



Exactly so.

(Good find, rabbie)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 6, 2005)

School of Building - now 140 Ferndale Road


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 6, 2005)

More:

In 1874, the Surrey County Club had been erected as a private venture on open land at the west end of Shepherd's Lane (now 140 Ferndale Road).  The buildings included a swimming pool, but the venture failed in 1881, and the premises were next used for Lambeth Polytechnic School, orgaised by a local committee.  By 1892, this too had closed and the site was acquired by Lambeth Vestry, for new baths and washhouses, but the proposed scheme was too expensive, so the premises were still on the market in 1897, when the London County Council took up the idea of a technical school for the building industry.


----------



## corporate whore (Jan 6, 2005)

Check out the spectral figure standing in the middle of Effra Road on page six of the EU link - the pic with the ferris wheel. 

You can see right through him!


----------



## sufilala (Jan 6, 2005)

*then & now*






just missed this one, it was pulled down last month
 
another lambeth school gone  there's still a plaque from 1900ish when that school was opened


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 7, 2005)

corporate whore said:
			
		

> Check out the spectral figure standing in the middle of Effra Road on page six of the EU link - the pic with the ferris wheel.
> 
> You can see right through him!




Maybe he's a soldier who died in the First World War.  He looks like he's got a uniform on


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jan 7, 2005)

sufilala said:
			
		

> just missed this one, it was pulled down last month
> 
> another lambeth school gone  there's still a plaque from 1900ish when that school was opened


1900ish? That building looks later than that......


----------



## Donna Ferentes (Jan 7, 2005)

Does this remind anybody else of _Brazil_?


----------



## sufilala (Jan 7, 2005)

> 1900ish? That building looks later than that......


Yeah,
I guess the school was inaugurated in 1900ish, then this entrance was added in the modernist era...

if you're quick you could get a snap of the enormous, school-size pile of bricks & rubble for 'the&now' before it's moved to make way for .... yuppy apartments...  

i got a photo of the plaque somewhere..although it's survived the demolition & is still in situ, along with the school toilets where they caught my kid smoking!!


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jan 7, 2005)

Actually no, Justin. It reminded me of The Daily Mail's entry at the Chelsea Flower Show a few years ago, but without the little lake and the boat........


----------



## Bob (Jan 7, 2005)

Mrs Magpie said:
			
		

> Actually no, Justin. It reminded me of The Daily Mail's entry at the Chelsea Flower Show a few years ago, but without the little lake and the boat........



Clearly it was done as a practical project at the building school - but why on earth they couldn't have built a real house that somebody could live in afterwards I'd like to know...


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 7, 2005)

Bob said:
			
		

> Clearly it was done as a practical project at the building school - but why on earth they couldn't have built a real house that somebody could live in afterwards I'd like to know...



The excessively tidy appearance compared to the other photos of construction in the hall made me think "Royal Visit".


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2005)

I've just posted up one new 'Then and Now' from the fresh batch of archive images discovered by lang rabbie! (shame they're a bit lo-res, though)

Brixton Fire Station (Ferndale Road)

One thing: at first I thought that the tower in the back was a training platform for firemen, but it appears to be still intact in the 2005 image (but now covered).

Maybe it was the fire escape for the soon-to-be-built Bon Marche building (although it would be odd to build that before the rest of the building!).

Any ideas?!


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 12, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> One thing: at first I thought that the tower in the back was a training platform for firemen, but it appears to be still intact in the 2005 image (but now covered).
> ...
> Any ideas?!



[daily mail editorial mode]  It is a secret short wave radio transmitter, run by  those scoundrels at the Refugee Council who now occupy the building, by which messages are broadcast to Albania on the ready availability of welfare benefits to bogus asylum seekers. [/daily mail editorial mode]


----------



## Allan (Jan 12, 2005)

I like the way everything was painted in various shades of grey in the old days.


----------



## sufilala (Jan 12, 2005)

> [daily mail editorial mode] It is a secret short wave radio transmitter, run by those scoundrels at the Refugee Council who now occupy the building, by which messages are broadcast to Albania on the ready availability of welfare benefits to bogus asylum seekers. [/daily mail editorial mode]


shhhh!
that's posed to be secret
ye'll be tellin em about the secret tunnels to kurdistan next
oops


----------



## editor (Dec 11, 2005)

Two more: 
Sussex Arms, Loughborough Park (now Moorlands estate) and 
Loughborough Hotel 

Also more old pics in the all-new, under-development Lost pubs of Brixton  section.


----------



## Bob (Dec 11, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Two more:
> Sussex Arms, Loughborough Park (now Moorlands estate) and
> Loughborough Hotel
> 
> Also more old pics in the all-new, under-development Lost pubs of Brixton  section.



The comparison between the Sussex Arms where the government tried to improve a whole area by demolishing it and the Loughborough Hotel (nice old building still intact) is something I'll point out to the next person who shows me a grandiose public project with the architects drawings showing people happily chatting in the streets.

Edited to add: My serious point is that the pubs that have been converted to flats still look like nice old buildings - in other words the planning system is doing a good job of making the area look nice.


----------



## Bob (Dec 11, 2005)

PS nice work on the pictures.

It's not really Brixton but if you go up to Kennington to the Ethelred & Vauxhall Gardens estates (and indeed pretty much all of the estates round there) the only nice old buildings left are the pubs / ex pubs - the rest were demolished in the orgy of rebuilding from the 1930s - the 1980s when councils routinely demolished victorian housing and put up bad council housing.


----------



## lang rabbie (Dec 12, 2005)

Bob said:
			
		

> Edited to add: My serious point is that the pubs that have been converted to flats still look like nice old buildings - in other words the planning system is doing a good job of making the area look nice.



Is there a danger of Potemkin village syndrome?

Whenever I bring visitors from the States down from central london by bus (no longer alas on the top deck of a Routemaster) they are enchanted by the carefully preserved townscape of the 19th century facades of the northern end of Brixton Road.   But they hide the other Brixton of the Myatts Fields North estate from view.


----------



## Byronik (Jun 2, 2006)

Littlewoods? Yes. My first wife and I used to call it Smallwoods. You made your own entertainment in those days.


----------



## editor (Apr 29, 2007)

Two updates to the Brixton Hill collection:

246 Brixton Hill
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/246brixtonhill.html

New Park Road (Tuson's Corner)
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/brixtonhill5.html 
(Does anyone call it Tuson's Corner?)


----------



## Meerkat (Apr 29, 2007)

Thanks Ed. I used to live in 244 Brixton Hill.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 29, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Two updates to the Brixton Hill collection:
> 
> 246 Brixton Hill
> http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/246brixtonhill.html
> ...




Although I recognise the shop on Brixton Hill, I don't recognise above it, probably because I rarely walk on the other side of the Hill.

The bookies is still there, but I can never remember the name of it.  It's not one of the biggies obviously, and it's not Paddy Power.  I'm sure someone will remember.  Oh, and before it was the bookies, I'm pretty sure it was an office of London & Quadrant

Tuson's Corner - NEVER heard of it


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 29, 2007)

Meerkat said:
			
		

> Thanks Ed. I used to live in 244 Brixton Hill.




We need more.  If Ed thinks he's gonna shut the Brixton Hillites up with two pictures he's wrong


----------



## editor (Apr 29, 2007)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> We need more.  If Ed thinks he's gonna shut the Brixton Hillites up with two pictures he's wrong


Err.. there's now *13* carefully researched scenes in the Brixton Hill section.

That's more than double the size of the Effra Road collection and that's _much_ closer!


----------



## editor (Apr 29, 2007)

Meerkat said:
			
		

> Thanks Ed. I used to live in 244 Brixton Hill.


Does 246 exist? I couldn't find it although I saw it listed somewhere online.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 29, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Err.. there's now *13* carefully researched scenes in the Brixton Hill section.
> 
> That's more than double the size of the Effra Road collection and that's _much_ closer!




yeah well, there's nothing of interest in Effra Road  

Can we have some pictures of all the arches around Loughborough Junction.  My grandfather used to have one there but I get confused as they all look alike


----------



## huxley71 (Apr 30, 2007)

These are great. Does anyone know of any old (WWII) pictures of Morley's? And, did it used to be called 'Bon Marche'? Or was that somewhere else?


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2007)

huxley71 said:
			
		

> These are great. Does anyone know of any old (WWII) pictures of Morley's? And, did it used to be called 'Bon Marche'?


They were two rival stores.

Morleys opened as Morley & Lanceley's in the 1880s and  became Morley's in 1927.


----------



## Bazza (Apr 30, 2007)

Editor, you seen the Clash film, 'Rude Boy'? Some good Brixton moments in it. Mainly Atlantic Road, Brixton Market, Coldharbour Lane and a scene with Joe Strummer at the bar in Brady's.


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2007)

Bazza said:
			
		

> Editor, you seen the Clash film, 'Rude Boy'? Some good Brixton moments in it. Mainly Atlantic Road, Brixton Market, Coldharbour Lane and a scene with Joe Strummer at the bar in Brady's.


If anyone's got a DVD they'd like to lend me, I could do some 'Then and Now' grabs...


----------



## huxley71 (Apr 30, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> They were two rival stores.
> 
> Morleys opened as Morley & Lanceley's in the 1880s and  became Morley's in 1927.



Ah, cool. So, where was Bon Marche?

I'm asking because I was speaking to my Mum's next door neighbour (in Bristol) last week, who was evacuated from Brixton (where she was born) in WWII to the Isle of Wight. She remembers (aged 5) dancing to an accordian player in Bon Marche's basement, during the blitz. The kept the horses down there too.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 30, 2007)

http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/bonmarche.html
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/brixtonroad10.html


----------



## huxley71 (Apr 30, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/bonmarche.html
> http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/brixtonroad10.html



Superb! That's exactly what I was after! Thanks Crispy


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 30, 2007)

huxley71 said:
			
		

> Superb! That's exactly what I was after! Thanks Crispy




The first department store in London I think.

Violet Szabo worked there as well, or was it Woolworths?


----------



## Bazza (Apr 30, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> If anyone's got a DVD they'd like to lend me, I could do some 'Then and Now' grabs...



I have one. I live very near you too. 

I'm playing football tonight and watching it tomorrow (COME ON CHELSEA) but if you're planning on being in the Albert at some point, let me know and I'll drop it to you.


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2007)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> The first department store in London I think.


Ahem: 





> Bon Marché's first store opened in Brixton in 1877, the first purpose built department store in the country.


http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/bonmarche.html


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2007)

I couldn't find many suitable photos of Morleys, but I did another Then and Now today:
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/bernays-grove.html

I'll do one of the frontage tomorrow of I get time.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 30, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Ahem: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/bonmarche.html




I can never remember whether it's the first in London or the country.

I do apologise


----------



## waverunner (Apr 30, 2007)

Sorry for my naivete/stupidity but you know all these gas lamps in the pictures... did they work as street lights or did they give off warmth too? 

And I love looking at these pictures although it makes me a little sad and even a little guilty for how man has changed everything so drastically in such a short space in time..


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2007)

waverunner said:
			
		

> Sorry for my naivete/stupidity but you know all these gas lamps in the pictures... did they work as street lights or did they give off warmth too?


Gas lamps give off a lovely warm light - so nice in fact that many thought that electric lights would never catch on because of the harshness of their light.

They don't give off much warmth though because they're high up and rather efficient.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 30, 2007)

Been looking through these then'n'nows and found one with my front door in


----------



## co-op (Nov 6, 2007)

hatboy said:
			
		

> Mrs M says go to an OAP's lunch group and you'll find the name (was it Gresham Arms?) of that pub and some memories, even pictures maybe.



<bump>

Ended up looking at all these fantastic photos yesterday and just noticed this possible answer to the Editor's pub question (the one under the barrier block) - I can't tell you owt about that because it had gone when I moved to Brixton in the 80s - but it wasn't the Gresham Arms because that was still going - it was in Fyfield Road - just at the top end of Villa Rd on the cut through to Barrington Rd. I think the building's still there, I didn't notice when it shut as a boozer since I only went in there about 3 times.


Ps - just remembered - there was the remains of a big pub-signpost standing on the corner of Coldharbour Rd and Moorland Rd in the 80s - just the post and the metal rectangle at the top inside which the actual sign would have hung. It's gone now because I went looking for it a couple of years ago....so I guess the bub was on that corner.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2007)

co-op said:
			
		

> Ps - just remembered - there was the remains of a big pub-signpost standing on the corner of Coldharbour Rd and Moorland Rd in the 80s - just the post and the metal rectangle at the top inside which the actual sign would have hung. It's gone now because I went looking for it a couple of years ago....so I guess the bub was on that corner.


The pub was indeed on the corner and as fas as I know it was known as the Loughborough Park Tavern.

Here's a glimpse of the sign: 







That reminds me - I should add that pub to the lost pubs section, along with the Sussex Arms:


----------



## co-op (Nov 6, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> The pub was indeed on the corner and as fas as I know it was known as the Loughborough Park Tavern.
> 
> Here's a glimpse of the sign:



Wow! - I'm actually quite glad to see that pic; like I said the signpost lingered on well into the 80s and I was yarning about the old days to a friend and somehow got onto this and we strolled down to the corner and it had gone and I had a genuine attack of I-don't-know-if-I-just-invented-this-entire-memory...all that was obvious was that the sign had gone. But that is exactly waht I remember. 

*mops brow*

not totally gaga yet then.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2007)

I've just unearthed a load of info about the Loughborough connection with Brixton. I'll start a new thread about it.


----------



## FREDERICK1066 (Dec 28, 2008)

When I was 15 I was kept off the streets and out of trouble by going to the Brixton Roller Rink. I often went six nights a week and made many friends there. This was in 1960/61. Names I can remember are Fred and Sheila who married. Mick The Rocker and Dave who rode a Norton 650. Will and Chris who's party I got drunk at for the first time. Pat/Beryl, whom I went out with for a while when she lived near Prices Candles in Battersea and, her friend Kim. There was also a fair haired young man who wore a dinner suit. His nickname was The Manager.  I loved the speed skating but, one evening I broke my ankle when I crashed into the barrier. I stopped going after that. I would love to see some photos of the rink in the 60's if anybody has any to post.


----------



## Racer (Jan 3, 2009)

reubeness said:


> "Anyone know where the rink was on on Effra Road?"
> 
> The Skating Rink was up by the carpet shop over the road from the Hobgoblin, I used to go there when it was a roller skating rink - about 40yrs ago.
> By the way I have some old photos of Brixton/Clapham especially Clapham Common and the paddling pool - my mum used to take me there when I was a baby. I was born in Solon Road, off Acre Lane - my mum used to work in the Sunlight Laundry Place, I attended Santley Primary School and we used the (now mosque) church hall on Stockwell Green for P.E.


HI 
I used to skate at the rink in the 50s. I was a member of the club, Remember the fast sessions.
Racer


----------



## Racer (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi Frederick
I used to skate at brixton in the 50s and left about 57, I was a member of the club for some years.
Racer


----------



## madolesance (Mar 9, 2009)

Meet an old fella the other day who used to skate at The Brixton Roller rink. He reckons the original wooden floor still exists in Carpet Right.


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2009)

co-op said:


> Wow! - I'm actually quite glad to see that pic; like I said the signpost lingered on well into the 80s and I was yarning about the old days to a friend and somehow got onto this and we strolled down to the corner and it had gone and I had a genuine attack of I-don't-know-if-I-just-invented-this-entire-memory...all that was obvious was that the sign had gone. But that is exactly waht I remember.


I've still yet to source a photo of the actual pub though. It seems pretty elusive.

Although I have found who worked/lived there:





> 1881/Edward Dubbins/Licensed Victualler (Manager)/33/St Clements, Middlesex/Census
> 1881/Ellen Dubbins/Wife/26/Brixton, Surrey/Census
> 1881/Ellen Dubbins/Daughter/3/Brixton, Surrey/Census
> 1881/Thomas Lake/Servant (Inn)/17/Marylebone, Middlesex/Census
> ...


----------



## bluestreak (Mar 9, 2009)

Does anyone know anything about the pub that used to be on Shakespeare Road, about number 110ish.  Towards the Railton Road end.  Not sure when it was converted, I'd guess early 90s.  Bad conversion.  Block of modern flats now behind it.  Some sort of revivalist church based there now.


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> Does anyone know anything about the pub that used to be on Shakespeare Road, about number 110ish.  Towards the Railton Road end.  Not sure when it was converted, I'd guess early 90s.  Bad conversion.  Block of modern flats now behind it.  Some sort of revivalist church based there now.


According to my 1894 Brixton map there was only one pub on Shakespeare Road on a slight kink in the road before it goes under the railway towards Mayall/Railton.

Interestingly, the road is spelt 'Shakspeare Road.'


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 9, 2009)

editor said:


> According to my 1894 Brixton map there was only one pub on Shakespeare Road on a slight kink in the road before it goes under the railway towards Mayall/Railton.
> 
> Interestingly, the road is spelt 'Shakspeare Road.'




I've still got credits left from the 1911 census but I'd need to know the correct address because it takes 10 credits per search


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 9, 2009)

I've searched for Shakspeare Road and it only seems to go up to No. 37


----------



## lang rabbie (Mar 10, 2009)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I've searched for Shakspeare Road and it only seems to go up to No. 37



I think it may have been divided between registration districts


----------



## Mrs D (Jan 30, 2018)

lang rabbie said:


> Fascinating stuff as ever, ed.
> 
> Barrington Road is a puzzler - I'd long wondered about those bits of stucco, which looked to have been plonked onto three ordinary houses around the turn of the 20th century.	Just how early did that part of Brixton decline from being built as villas for prosperous suburbanites for the Orphanage to be able to pick up three of them cheaply and convert them to institutional use?
> 
> Perhaps the levels of pollution from the nearby viaduct had something to do with the rapid fall from grace?



The orphanage was well established by 1881 when my great great grandmother was living opposite working as a domestic servant. In that year it had 91 children, occupying numbers 55 and 57. All the neighbouring houses and those on the rest of the street were headed by clerks, merchants etc so it seems to have been a solidly middle class area.

Likewise in 1891 when it occupied 53, 55 and 57, and housed 302 children.

Even by 1901 the street was still full of middle class occupations with households containing servants. 

I would guess your assumption that the properties were picked up cheaply is wrong.


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 31, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> The orphanage was well established by 1881 when my great great grandmother was living opposite working as a domestic servant. In that year it had 91 children, occupying numbers 55 and 57. All the neighbouring houses and those on the rest of the street were headed by clerks, merchants etc so it seems to have been a solidly middle class area.
> 
> Likewise in 1891 when it occupied 53, 55 and 57, and housed 302 children.
> 
> ...



Good grief, I am now being called out for inaccuracy on a post made over fourteen years ago(!) in December 2003, as though it is the most recent online research on the Orphanage, rather than just what now comes up high on a Google search.

For anyone who is interested, Brenda Timms has built a website about the Brixton Orphanage, where her mother Annie Cotsford was a pupil from 1909 to 1918.

*The Brixton Orphanage for Fatherless Girls 1876-1935/6*

The *Objects and Regulations* of the Orphanage were particularly Dickensian!

There are also several good social history research projects since then focusing on poorhouses and orphanages, including Childrenshomes.org.uk

*Brixton Orphanage for Fatherless Girls*

There is also a mysterious picture in a German architectural book of c.1900 that includes a drawing of the Brixton Orphanage from The Builder Magazine of 1886. This is of a Queen Anne style building and is attributed to the architect E J Tarver (who built the Telford Park Estate up the hill at Streatham Hill).

This is the block shown in the 1895 Ordnance Survey map behind the three houses facing Barrington Road.


 I have to admit I was blissfully unaware that this was still in existence, but Google streetview shows it just visible through some gates next to 81 Millbrook Rd and looking to be in remarkably good condition.  
The site was previously "the Barrington Centre" (Is my memory failing or was that a children's social services day centre???) and was converted to housing c.1997 when it was renamed College Green Court. (The Lambeth planning database only has the decision notice online for planning application 96/02158/PLANAP)


----------



## CH1 (Feb 1, 2018)

lang rabbie said:


> For anyone who is interested, Brenda Timms has built a website about the Brixton Orphanage, where her mother Annie Cotsford was a pupil from 1909 to 1918.
> *The Brixton Orphanage for Fatherless Girls 1876-1935/6*
> The *Objects and Regulations* of the Orphanage were particularly Dickensian!
> There are also several good social history research projects since then focusing on poorhouses and orphanages, including Childrenshomes.org.uk
> ...


I can't see the illustration in the German book being related to the Barrington Road site.

The Barrington Road houses are clearly part of the Angell Town Estate development dating back to the late 1840s (not to say they were built for the orphanage - just the orphanage acquired them 1876 or later).

Further points of possible in interest:

The florid ornamentation on the Barrington Road frontage of the orphanage apparently dates to when the buildings were occupied by Brixton College of Building (which was headquartered on Ferndale Road). The ornamental joins and entrance seem to be exercises in working with stucco and ornamentation.

One of the original sponsors of Brixton College of Building was Professor Beresford Pyte of the Royal College of Art. Pyte was the designer/architect of Christ Church North Brixton - the church on Brixton Road at the Oval end, which has an outside pulpit. Pyte also designed a very similar building as the Cathedral of Kampala in Uganda.

Tony Banks, the GLC councillor and then MP who was close to Ken Livingstone seems to have spent some time at 55 Barrington Road. Banks was born in Northern Ireland, but his family moved back to London and he was brought up in Brixton, attending St john's School.  He joined the Liberal Party (in the era of Jo Grimmond). He stood as a Liberal candidate for Town Hall ward in the 1964 council election. Before moving onto power in the Labour Party and dying at the age of 64. 55 Barrington Road is on the corner of Barrington Road and Milbrook Road a few doors from where the orphanage was.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2018)

I've been inside that building and it looked very much like the illustration posted above.


----------



## CH1 (Feb 1, 2018)

editor said:


> I've been inside that building and it looked very much like the illustration posted above.


Are you saying that the German book illustration is what lies behind the houses fronting Barrington Road?

I can imagine that - looking again at lang rabbie 's post. The drawing is a bit idealised - ignoring the railway line. How many flats are in there now?


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Are you saying that the German book illustration is what lies behind the houses fronting Barrington Road?
> 
> I can imagine that - looking again at lang rabbie 's post. The drawing is a bit idealised - ignoring the railway line. How many flats are in there now?


As far as I remember, and from looking at that photo the architectural details pretty much match up, no? Sadly, my friend who lived there was a troubled soul and killed himself.

I took this panorama from his flat in the old school building


----------



## lang rabbie (Feb 2, 2018)

CH1 said:


> Are you saying that the German book illustration is what lies behind the houses fronting Barrington Road?
> 
> I can imagine that - looking again at lang rabbie 's post. The drawing is a bit idealised - ignoring the railway line. How many flats are in there now?


The railway arches are in the drawing on the left hand site, but probably foreshortened a bit more than in real life to reduce their impact!


----------



## lang rabbie (Feb 2, 2018)

CH1 said:


> The florid ornamentation on the Barrington Road frontage of the orphanage apparently dates to when the buildings were occupied by Brixton College of Building (which was headquartered on Ferndale Road). The ornamental joins and entrance seem to be exercises in working with stucco and ornamentation.



Hate to disagree CH1 but all that stuccowork was clearly there in 1910.

Brixton Orphanage for Fatherless Girls, Barrington Road, Brixton. Historical Brixton - old and new photos of Brixton, Lambeth, London, SW9 and SW2

Brixton College of Building only took it over as an annexe in the 1930s when the orphanage moved out.


----------



## CH1 (Feb 2, 2018)

lang rabbie said:


> Hate to disagree CH1 but all that stuccowork was clearly there in 1910.


I will refer this back to my verbal but normally authoritative source.
The Urban/Lambeth picture is clearly of the orphanage in 1910 and not Brixton College of Building


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2018)

lang rabbie said:


> There is also a mysterious picture in a German architectural book of c.1900 that includes a drawing of the Brixton Orphanage from The Builder Magazine of 1886. This is of a Queen Anne style building and is attributed to the architect E J Tarver (who built the Telford Park Estate up the hill at Streatham Hill).
> View attachment 126475
> This is the block shown in the 1895 Ordnance Survey map behind the three houses facing Barrington Road.
> View attachment 126476
> ...


It's definitely the same building


----------

