# Tube strikes - discussion



## telbert (Feb 3, 2014)

Looks like its still on then :http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/29555.aspx


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## marty21 (Feb 3, 2014)

it will be hassle, but I support the strikers


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## Maurice Picarda (Feb 3, 2014)

What are the chances of a deal tomorrow?


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## Lo Siento. (Feb 3, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> What are the chances of a deal tomorrow?


It's over job cuts I think. So bugger all probably...


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 3, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> What are the chances of a deal tomorrow?


I think very slim. TFL seem very disinclined to change their position at all, which isn't very surprising in the current climate - politically it wouldn't be allowed.


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

Look forward to not having to go on the tube tomorrow.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 3, 2014)

Also, title edited.


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## Bungle73 (Feb 3, 2014)

I've decided Thursday might be a good time to visit the British Museum.  I want to see their current exhibition, and I think there might be fewer people there because of the strike. I don't need the Tube because I can walk from St. Pancras.


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## Maurice Picarda (Feb 4, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Also, title edited.



Poorly.


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 4, 2014)




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## 5t3IIa (Feb 4, 2014)

An estimate of what the tube map will look like http://www.flickr.com/photos/ianvisits/12285044544/sizes/h/in/photostream/


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## marty21 (Feb 4, 2014)

I have to be in Kentish Town for a meeting first thing, my plan is bus it to Camden Town and walk, and get up early so I can leave early. Getting up early may be the flaw in my otherwise excellent plan .


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## quimcunx (Feb 4, 2014)

marty21 said:


> I have to be in Kentish Town for a meeting first thing, my plan is bus it to Camden Town and walk, and get up early so I can leave early. Getting up early may be the flaw in my otherwise excellent plan .



My cunning plan is 1. remember to get on a bus that goes past Brixton tube, instead of terminating there,  to a northern line tube station,  and 2. be late.


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## marty21 (Feb 4, 2014)

I will probably get to Kentish Town and find out the meeting has been cancelled


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## hipipol (Feb 4, 2014)

This strike really is for very good reasons
I spent an hour helping some peeps find their way about 2 weeks ago when the ticket office at Crofton Park was closed and all the trains cancelled - they did not have a clue what to do
IF Boris had had the bottle to distress his Chelsea Tractor driving mates and extend the congestion charge Westwards to cover areas generally known as Central London they would not need to close anything


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## Maurice Picarda (Feb 4, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


>




I will not only hear but will think all of those things. Do I get extra points for wanting the ringleaders to be hanged and the picket lines to be charged down at sabrepoint by the 15th Hussars?


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## marty21 (Feb 4, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I will not only hear but will think all of those things. Do I get extra points for wanting the ringleaders to be hanged and the picket lines to be charged down at sabrepoint by the 15th Hussars?


the 15th Hussars could never charge down a picket line


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## Maurice Picarda (Feb 4, 2014)

marty21 said:


> the 15th Hussars could never charge down a picket line



Well, not now, as IIRC they've now been amalgamated into an armed vehicle division.


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## Bungle73 (Feb 4, 2014)

hipipol said:


> This strike really is for very good reasons
> I spent an hour helping some peeps find their way about 2 weeks ago when the ticket office at Crofton Park was closed and all the trains cancelled - they did not have a clue what to do
> IF Boris had had the bottle to distress his Chelsea Tractor driving mates and extend the congestion charge Westwards to cover areas generally known as Central London they would not need to close anything


I'm not sure how that is relevant given that a)Crofton Park is a National Rail station and b) there will be staff on stations to give assistance to passengers.  What's the point of spending money keeping ticket offices open when most people don't need them any more?


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## Ted Striker (Feb 4, 2014)

Im a bit bemused - either the staff are being reassigned to stand outside of the ticket offices and assist/play on ipads (sounds reasonable enough) or they're leaving the stations empty (not really on, tho can't see that surely being anyone's serious idea?).

I just cba to wade through the bj/crowe pantomime hyperbole so really none the wiser.


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## 19sixtysix (Feb 4, 2014)

I will leave at my usual time and take a route not requiring the tube (even if it's running). If I am late then this is good secondary action.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 4, 2014)

Ted Striker said:


> Im a bit bemused - either the staff are being reassigned to stand outside of the ticket offices and assist/play on ipads (sounds reasonable enough) or they're leaving the stations empty (not really on, tho can't see that surely being anyone's serious idea?).
> 
> I just cba to wade through the bj/crowe pantomime hyperbole so really none the wiser.



The dispute is over job losses of station staff (approx 1,000) and casualisation of labour. It's also suspected that if they're successful in their purge this will be cascaded throughout the company. This is only their _first step _in what they plan to do to the network.


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## Ted Striker (Feb 4, 2014)

So the station staff headcount will be 1000 less with the current proposal? That does sound a bit of a shit deal - Some stations are like a scene from The Warriors at the best of times late at night.


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## _pH_ (Feb 4, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> The dispute is over job losses of station staff (approx 1,000) and casualisation of labour. It's also suspected that if they're successful in their purge this will be cascaded throughout the company. This is only their _first step _in what they plan to do to the network.


I'd say the first step was when TfL decided to get rid of conductors on LOROL services.


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## joustmaster (Feb 4, 2014)

Who am i allowed to shout scab at tomorrow?


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## Citizen66 (Feb 4, 2014)

_pH_ said:


> I'd say the first step was when TfL decided to get rid of conductors on LOROL services.



Sorry, I meant on LU but yes, the attack covers more than that.


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## Belushi (Feb 4, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Who am i allowed to shout scab at tomorrow?



The guy driving your tube train.


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## _pH_ (Feb 4, 2014)

Belushi said:


> The guy driving your tube train.


Well yeah but it's only RMT and TSSA who have balloted for strike action and a lot of tube drivers are in ASLEF. Not sure what ASLEF members will be doing during the strike.


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## Miss-Shelf (Feb 5, 2014)

_pH_ said:


> Well yeah but it's only RMT and TSSA who have balloted for strike action and a lot of tube drivers are in ASLEF. Not sure what ASLEF members will be doing during the strike.


why not ASLEF too?


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 5, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> why not ASLEF too?



ASLEF (as far as I know) only represent train drivers, who are not directly affected by this proposal.

I think that (under trade union law as it currently stands) for ASLEF to strike over this issue would constitute 'secondary industrial action' and therefore be illegal.

They may of course consider it appropriate to refuse to drive trains on safety grounds if the stations etc are going to be in the hands of a bunch of people who have not had proper training to run them (TfL probably argue this isn't the case)


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## Miss-Shelf (Feb 5, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> ASLEF (as far as I know) only represent train drivers, who are not directly affected by this proposal.
> 
> I think that (under trade union law as it currently stands) for ASLEF to strike over this issue would constitute 'secondary industrial action' and therefore be illegal.
> 
> They may of course consider it appropriate to refuse to drive trains on safety grounds if the stations etc are going to be in the hands of a bunch of people who have not had proper training to run them (TfL probably argue this isn't the case)


thanks


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## Sue (Feb 5, 2014)

I'll be getting the North London line and then discovering new bits of NW and W London while hoping it doesn't rain too much...


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## Citizen66 (Feb 5, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> ASLEF (as far as I know) only represent train drivers, who are not directly affected by this proposal.



Of course, there's nothing stopping them leaving ASLEF and joining the striking drivers in the RMT.


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 5, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Of course, there's nothing stopping them leaving ASLEF and joining the striking drivers in the RMT.



hmm.

it does take quite a bit to get people to change unions.

I'm not sure just what proportion of drivers on the underground are RMT rather than ASLEF, and not sure this isn't going off at a tangent.

also I'm not 100% sure if RMT drivers are striking tomorrow - again, the dispute does not directly involve them.  I'm not sure if all LU RMT members are being called out, or just those in affected areas of work.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 5, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> hmm.
> 
> it does take quite a bit to get people to change unions.
> 
> ...



The walkout is the RMT and TSSA. All pay grades. not just those affected.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 5, 2014)

Unite and ASLEF will be turning up to work as per usual.


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 5, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> The walkout is the RMT and TSSA. All pay grades. not just those affected.



ah

this is the kind of awkward situation you get when there are multiple unions in one workplace - not entirely sure what the answer is.

and if all RMT are out, that's going to include control room / signalling staff - so the ASLEF drivers may not be able to run anywhere...


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 5, 2014)

Should be easy enough. All they need to do is sit on their arse and pull a lever


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## Citizen66 (Feb 5, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> and if all RMT are out, that's going to include control room / signalling staff - so the ASLEF drivers may not be able to run anywhere...



In previous disputes drivers from other unions (or other companies when the PPP split the maintenance staff into Metronet etc) refused to take out trains that hadn't been prep'd. Of course, they try and train up managers for these eventualities which is how some trains will end up in service.


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 5, 2014)

Fuck this shit. Am working from home!!


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## DotCommunist (Feb 5, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> Fuck this shit. Am working from home!!




does that mean your ridiculous plastic t-rex will be left alone all day? you monster


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## DotCommunist (Feb 5, 2014)

also travelling on a mainline tube at rush hour closely resembles a dantean circle of hell and anything that interrupts this voluntary indignity and suffering should be applauded. Bobs doingyou all a favour here.


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## hipipol (Feb 5, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I'm not sure how that is relevant given that a)Crofton Park is a National Rail station and b) there will be staff on stations to give assistance to passengers.  What's the point of spending money keeping ticket offices open when most people don't need them any more?


I do understand that Crofton is NOT a tube station - just an example of what happens when there is no one there - in this case 6 US tourists
As its seems half of the ticket office peeps are being made redundant I cant see how this can result in more staff on the platforms dispensing advice


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## DJWrongspeed (Feb 5, 2014)

Waterloo Road looked messy outside the station. 
It didn't rain on my ride in which was good for all the new cycle commuters


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## Belushi (Feb 5, 2014)

I've taken a days leave, not looking forward to getting to work tomorrow though.


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 5, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> does that mean your ridiculous plastic t-rex will be left alone all day? you monster



He's probably glad of the fezzicking fossicking break tbh


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## goldenecitrone (Feb 5, 2014)

Finally made it in to work. Walked past Boris on his bike at King's Cross, surrounded by photographers. Felt a bit like 7/7 with everyone walking all over the place. Good luck to the tube workers.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 5, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> He's probably glad of the fezzicking fossicking break tbh




the tube frottagers will be bereft as well


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 5, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> the tube frottagers will be bereft as well



I care not. I finagled a day at home, with foraging breaks to Costcutter for foods.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 5, 2014)

all hail cmrd crow


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## MellySingsDoom (Feb 5, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> all hail cmrd crow



Talking of his Bobness, he did a cracking, impassioned speech at the Cable Street 75th Anniversary march whatsit I went to a couple of years ago.  He also did a talk at the pub round the corner from Cable St itself - unfortunately I couldn't hear much due to the football being on TV at full blast (argh!).  Gary O'Shea was present and correct too at the pub, if memory serves


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 5, 2014)

Boris bullshit:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26043372


> said his manifesto pledge about ticket office closures was from 2008 "before the iPhone was invented."



That'll be the i-phone that was invented in 2007 then.



> He also reiterated his called for a ban on strike action affecting London transport, unless it was supported by more than 50% of union members eligible to be balloted.
> "That would be reasonable for vital transport functions, such as the London Underground, which has to keep the greatest city on earth moving and on which millions of people will depend for their livelihoods," he said.
> "And people say, oh well you know, you only got elected on 40%. I just think that there's a difference between a local electoral or political election and the operation of a vital public service."



Something we can agree on; tube drivers are more useful to the people of the UK than politicians.



Oh and DotCommunist / 5t3IIa ...


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 5, 2014)

Look at you with your thumb in the pic


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 5, 2014)

It's deliberate, a mood-filter, like what they use on Top Gear


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 5, 2014)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It's deliberate, a mood-filter, like what they use on Top Gear



Uh huh  You got the laptop out? J S-G said in FB that after all the commute struggle nothing was working


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 5, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> Uh huh  You got the laptop out? J S-G said in FB that after all the commute struggle nothing was working



Have lapdog, but no charger, down to 50%, possible 2-3 hours until problem fixed. May have to go to the pub to save power...


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 5, 2014)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Have lapdog, but no charger, down to 50%, possible 2-3 hours until problem fixed. May have to go to the pub to save power...



No charger  Remote fail


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## Maurice Picarda (Feb 5, 2014)

It was annoyingly easy to get in; perhaps 25 additional minutes added to the journey. I can't in all honesty call for Crow's head to be placed on a spike above the Tower with quite the level of righteous anger that I was expecting to summon.


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## marty21 (Feb 5, 2014)

Got to Kentish Town fine, got a seat on the bus and walked up from Camden Town. Back in Kings X having me lunch now. Journey home will probably involve some walking


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## krtek a houby (Feb 5, 2014)

I've been at work now for 5 hourszzzz


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## telbert (Feb 5, 2014)

on my way home now at Edgware Rd.may have to walk from farringdon to L'pool st though.A tiny inconvenience for me when you look at the bigger picture.


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## flypanam (Feb 5, 2014)

Left home at 6am (a couple of buses and a train) to get into work for 8.30am. Managed to shout out the bus window 'Good luck and keep strong' to some strikers today. Getting home will be a pain but fuck it glad to see them standing up for themselves and us.


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## marty21 (Feb 5, 2014)

Heading home, left at 4 and walked up to Euston, got on a 73 and have a seat! Bus stops heaving with people at Angel, very few folk getting on.


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## EastEnder (Feb 5, 2014)

marty21 said:


> Bus stops heaving with people at Angel, very few folk getting on.


Did the sight of you scare them off again?


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## DotCommunist (Feb 5, 2014)

boris comes from a political class that regularly inconvenience the country and are elected wit way less than 50% of a vote. they ignore the word quorum when it suits them


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## Roadkill (Feb 5, 2014)

Is it only me who thought that the photos of people jammed onto tubes this morning didn't look so different from an ordinary morning?

Getting down to Greenwich from Kings Cross at lunchtime today was _not_ fun, especially since signal failure somewhere around London Bridge has buggered all the overground trains down there.  I ended up on the bus, and thanks to traffic it took the best part of two hours.

I bet the black cab drivers are coining it today too...


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## marty21 (Feb 5, 2014)

EastEnder said:


> Did the sight of you scare them off again?


No, but it seemed to scare the driver who decided to terminate in Islington  when I say terminate, he didn't die .

So walking the rest of the way as buses packed


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## Mapped (Feb 5, 2014)

I splashed out this morning on a bus and £5.90 high speed rail ticket from Stratford to St Pancras. Not many people were getting on at Stratford, probably due to the £1 per minute cost of that journey. I'll be doing the same again tomorrow as I've an early start near Westminster. 

Off out in town tonight, so hopefully it'll have all cleared up before we head home.


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## wtfftw (Feb 5, 2014)

It's taken me almost 3 hours to do about half of my usually 90 minute journey. That's usually all by bus as well. 

Basically stationary. My arse hurts. Considering a pub based interval.


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## harpo (Feb 5, 2014)

I too tried to get from Walthamstow to Westminster.  Didn't make it.  Tried Queens Road-South Tottenham-Seven Sisters Victoria line route but couldn't even get on at Queens  Road, the trains were turning up full.  Tried to 230 to Seven Sisters but there was no getting on it. Got on the 48 as it was the only bus I could get anywhere near and then it ground to a halt on Hackney Road after taking an hour and a half to get there.  So I worked from home but did get a bit of a bollocking for 'not trying hard enough'.  Which was fucking unfair because frankly I did.


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 5, 2014)

harpo said:


> I too tried to get from Walthamstow to Westminster.  Didn't make it.  Tried Queens Road-South Tottenham-Seven Sisters Victoria line route but couldn't even get on at Queens  Road, the trains were turning up full.  Tried to 230 to Seven Sisters but there was no getting on it. Got on the 48 as it was the only bus I could get anywhere near and then it ground to a halt on Hackney Road after taking an hour and a half to get there.  So I worked from home but did get a bit of a bollocking for 'not trying hard enough'.  Which was fucking unfair because frankly I did.



 at bollocking

as an underground avoiding route for another day, how about get to stratford, DLR to Lewisham, SE Trains to Charing Cross or Victoria then walkable?  (or DLR to Greenwich then SE trains from there, but then I think you'd have to change trains at London Bridge to get to Charing Cross, which might be more painful.)


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## harpo (Feb 5, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> at bollocking
> 
> as an underground avoiding route for another day, how about get to stratford, DLR to Lewisham, SE Trains to Charing Cross or Victoria then walkable?  (or DLR to Greenwich then SE trains from there, but then I think you'd have to change trains at London Bridge to get to Charing Cross, which might be more painful.)


It'd be the getting to Stratford bit that'd be the problem.  As I found out this morning, the bus is a bad idea.  Tomorrow I will have to leave about 6.30 and try to get to Seven Sisters somehow.  Walking is a possibility I'm considering, if it's not raining.  Might take about 50 mins.


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 5, 2014)

harpo said:


> It'd be the getting to Stratford bit that'd be the problem.  As I found out this morning, the bus is a bad idea.  Tomorrow I will have to leave about 6.30 and try to get to Seven Sisters somehow.  Walking is a possibility I'm considering, if it's not raining.  Might take about 50 mins.





As a further alternative, if you go in to Liverpool Street, the 11 bus starts there (and goes to Westminster) so you should get on one eventually


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## harpo (Feb 5, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> As a further alternative, if you go in to Liverpool Street, the 11 bus starts there (and goes to Westminster) so you should get on one eventually


I thought about that but thought it would take too long esp as the 11 has to go through the City which was apparently gridlocked.  That's why I got off the 48 at Hackney today.

There's no easy solution .  I think I will set off on foot, hoping to pick up the 123 on Forest Road and assuming I'm walking. Then cram on at Seven Sisters.


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## harpo (Feb 5, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> at bollocking
> 
> as an underground avoiding route for another day, how about get to stratford, DLR to Lewisham, SE Trains to Charing Cross or Victoria then walkable?  (or DLR to Greenwich then SE trains from there, but then I think you'd have to change trains at London Bridge to get to Charing Cross, which might be more painful.)


Anyway  that was a veritable Mornington Crescent move.  Cunning.  I like it.  If only it weren't for the pesky Walthamstow to Stratford leg.


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## wtfftw (Feb 5, 2014)

wtfftw said:


> It's taken me almost 3 hours to do about half of my usually 90 minute journey. That's usually all by bus as well.
> 
> Basically stationary. My arse hurts. Considering a pub based interval.


And it's taken another hour to get to and on a bus at Tottenham court road.


Suspect I could've cut several hours off by walking from Trafalgar to totters ct rd. Please cross your fingers for north London traffic. Tottenham court road is pretty clear but it's totally snarled up getting to it.


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## Sue (Feb 5, 2014)

North London line from Hackney Central to Brondesbury. Walked from there to my office near Paddington. All fine.

On the way back, meandered a bit, got a bit lost and started to feel quite twitchy wandering along all these extremely posh streets with massive houses and no bus stops to check where I was/the direction etc. Eventually got back to Brondesbury, busy train but okay. And the rain held off so all good. Also saw bits of London I'd never seen before -- blue plaque where Alan Turing was born in Maida Vale, couple of nice churches -- and will likely never see again after tomorrow.


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 5, 2014)

I couldn't get _into _Stratford station this morning.


I waited for a bus to Stratford at 0655 and they were sparse and didn't stop as packed full
Walked to Stratford
Couldn't get into the station
Tried to get a bus home and nothing
Walked home
Fuck that shit


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## porp (Feb 5, 2014)

I've not looked at the Standard yet, but willing to bet that there'll be a 'London Defies the Strikers' headline and an accompanying piece about some city type who walked to work on his hands to demonstrate his defiance, or some such nonsense.


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 5, 2014)

harpo said:


> Anyway  that was a veritable Mornington Crescent move.  Cunning.  I like it.  If only it weren't for the pesky Walthamstow to Stratford leg.



58 to Romford Road and sneaky stroll West? http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/058full.pdf


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## Manter (Feb 5, 2014)

porp said:


> I've not looked at the Standard yet, but willing to bet that there'll be a 'London Defies the Strikers' headline and an accompanying piece about some city type who walked to work on his hands to demonstrate his defiance, or some such nonsense.


Nigel Havers was on R4 complaining that he had to cycle and got wet. RMT spokeswoman couldn't even fake sympathy- it was extremely funny


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## Greebo (Feb 5, 2014)

Manter said:


> Nigel Havers was on R4 complaining that he had to cycle and got wet. <snip>


I caught that too - the reactionary so and so was petulant as anything.


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## Mapped (Feb 5, 2014)

harpo said:


> It'd be the getting to Stratford bit that'd be the problem.  As I found out this morning, the bus is a bad idea.  Tomorrow I will have to leave about 6.30 and try to get to Seven Sisters somehow.  Walking is a possibility I'm considering, if it's not raining.  Might take about 50 mins.



I did the Walthamstow - Stratford part this morning and it took 30 mins on the 97. However this was at 6:30am, I wouldn't bother with that route in heavier traffic.


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## harpo (Feb 5, 2014)

wtfftw said:


> And it's taken another hour to get to and on a bus at Tottenham court road.
> 
> 
> Suspect I could've cut several hours off by walking from Trafalgar to totters ct rd. Please cross your fingers for north London traffic. Tottenham court road is pretty clear but it's totally snarled up getting to it.


You could've as that journey takes about 10 minutes on foot.


5t3IIa said:


> 58 to Romford Road and sneaky stroll West? http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/058full.pdf


If I had the time.


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 6, 2014)

harpo said:


> You could've as that journey takes about 10 minutes on foot.
> 
> If I had the time.



if the 58 is less likely to be full then

58 to Crownfield Road isn't that far from Stratford International DLR, is it?


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## wtfftw (Feb 6, 2014)

harpo said:


> You could've as that journey takes about 10 minutes on foot.
> 
> If I had the time.


Yeah. Mobility problems tho.


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## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

the east london overground line is working very well and not too packed... if you can reach any of those stations. you can change on to district line at whitechapel to get to central london (tho i think westminster station is closed; embankment is open tho)


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## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

roads around 7 sisters are impossible as roadworks have cut it down to 1 lane so i'd avoid that totally.


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## EastEnder (Feb 6, 2014)

Viccy line running all the way to Brixton today. Got on at 09:20, train was even emptier than usual!


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## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

EastEnder said:


> Viccy line running all the way to Brixton today. Got on at 09:20, train was even emptier than usual!


Perhaps commuters don't feel safe being driven by a manager or a scab?


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## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> Perhaps commuters don't feel safe being driven by a manager or a scab?


First a "mananger" wouldn't drive a Tube train because one needs to specially trained to do it, and second not all Tube drivers are RMT, some are ASLEF who are not taking part in this strike because it is nothing to do with them.


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## EastEnder (Feb 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> Perhaps commuters don't feel safe being driven by a manager or a scab?


Are the drivers on strike?


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## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> First a "mananger" wouldn't drive a Tube train because one needs to specially trained to do it, and second not all Tube drivers are RMT, some are ASLEF who are not taking part in this strike because it is nothing to do with them.


They have the choice not to cross the picket lines.


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## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

EastEnder said:


> Are the drivers on strike?


They've still crossed a picket line to get to work.


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## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> They have the choice not to cross the picket lines.


Oh don't talk such nonsense.  So if the Tube cleaners go on strike that means no one else is allowed to turn up for work does it?


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## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Oh don't talk such nonsense.  So if the Tube cleaners go on strike that means no one else is allowed to turn up for work does it?


Yes. That's exactly what it does mean.


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## peterkro (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Oh don't talk such nonsense.  So if the Tube cleaners go on strike that means no one else is allowed to turn up for work does it?


Well I for one wouldn't cross their picket line.


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## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> Yes. That's exactly what it does mean.


Cobblers.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2014)

get a fuckin clue


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## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> First a "mananger" wouldn't drive a Tube train because one needs to specially trained to do it <snip>



Are you saying that LU would be unable to train managers to do this? I know otherwise btw.


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## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Cobblers.


Your response is no surprise.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

EastEnder said:


> Are the drivers on strike?



The RMT ones are, yes.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Are you saying that LU would be unable to train managers to do this? I know otherwise btw.


I'm saying you can't just shove some random into a driver's seat and expect them to do the job.  It takes months, maybe years, of training.  The job is not as simple as some people like to think it is.


cesare said:


> Your response is no surprise.


Yours is beyond ridiculous.


----------



## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Yours is beyond ridiculous.



Supporting industrial action isn't ridiculous. You sound like one of those "ordinary Londoners held to ransom" handjobs.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I'm saying you can't just shove some random into a driver's seat and expect them to do the job.  It takes months, maybe years, of training.  The job is not as simple as some people like to think it is.



But an LU manager isn't somebody random. They can be placed on any absolutely any internal training course. Some of them used to be drivers themselves, for example.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> Supporting industrial action isn't ridiculous. You sound like one of those "ordinary Londoners held to ransom" handjobs.


But it's not ASLEFs industrial action to support, it's the RMT's.  Tube drivers aren't even the focus of the dispute.  In any case someone said earlier that it would be illegal for ASLEF members to take part.


----------



## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> But it's not ASLEFs industrial action to support, it's the RMT's.  Tube drivers aren't even the focus of the dispute.  In any case someone said earlier that it would be illegal for ASLEF members to take part.


It's all of our industrial action to support, whether we are union members or not.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> But an LU manager isn't somebody random. They can be placed on any absolutely any internal training course. Some of them used to be drivers themselves, for example.


Just being sent "on a course" is not good enough. To drive a train you need to have practical experience of the train you are driving and the route you need to drive along. If you don't know the route, you can't drive the train.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> It's all of our industrial action to support, whether we are union members or not.


So the whole country should not  turn up for work then?


----------



## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> So the whole country should not  turn up for work then?


Londoners supporting strike action don't cross the picket lines. That's how we support it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Just being sent "on a course" is not good enough. To drive a train you need to have practical experience of the train you are driving and the route you need to drive along. If you don't know the route, you can't drive the train.



Again, I don't know how what you're saying challenges what I'm saying.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

If a driver wants to become a manager they are free to apply for those positions. This is what happens. If at a later date they are needed as a driver again the company don't say "Oh no, you can't possibly do that, you're a manager now, let's not entertain the idea of breaking the strike"

They will refresh them.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

i've definitely not crossed any picket lines.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> But it's not ASLEFs industrial action to support, it's the RMT's.  Tube drivers aren't even the focus of the dispute.  In any case someone said earlier that it would be illegal for ASLEF members to take part.



It's not illegal for them to leave ASLEF and join a union that supports workers across ALL pay grades rather than just their driving clique. Indeed maintenance workers can choose between Unite and the RMT. Some make their choices based on not wanting to lose money when there's strikes, others are less short sighted in their choices.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

should i not be getting on the district line trains that are running then? there's no picket lines or signs or anything at any of the stations...


----------



## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> should i not be getting on the district line trains that are running then? there's no picket lines or signs or anything at any of the stations...


Every tube station has a virtual picket line at the entrance.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> So the whole country should not  turn up for work then?


 

That would be so great. Bit pie in the sky, but I appreciate your idealism on this one.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> Every tube station has a virtual picket line at the entrance.


even the overground ones? what about buses?


----------



## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> even the overground ones? what about buses?


London Overground aren't on strike and neither are the buses.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 6, 2014)

Not needing the tube is a boon in times like these.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> London Overground aren't on strike and neither are the buses.


but they're all linked up now, the overground and tube... so you can get the overground to whitechapel and then change straight to district line... it is very confusing, they should have ACTUAL picket lines or at least a sign that says "once you go past here you are breaking the strike".


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> If a driver wants to become a manager they are free to apply for those positions. This is what happens. If at a later date they are needed as a driver again the company don't say "Oh no, you can't possibly do that, you're a manager now, let's not entertain the idea of breaking the strike"
> 
> They will refresh them.


But you can't just take someone who's been sat behind a desk for 5 years, stick them in a driver's seat and expect them to be able to do they job.


Citizen66 said:


> It's not illegal for them to leave ASLEF and join a union that supports workers across ALL pay grades rather than just their driving clique. Indeed maintenance workers can choose between Unite and the RMT. Some make their choices based on not wanting to lose money when there's strikes, others are less short sighted in their choices.


So, everyone who joined ASLEF did so because they are "selfish" did they?  I'm sure their members will be pleased to hear that.  And what does it say about the RMT that people "choose" (according to you) not to join them so they don't lose money (because they have mouths to feed) in strikes? It says what many, many people must think: the RMT go on strike far, far too often.


----------



## marty21 (Feb 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> They have the choice not to cross the picket lines.


If bungle ever goes on strike we will all go to his picket line and not cross it


----------



## cesare (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> but they're all linked up now, the overground and tube... so you can get the overground to whitechapel and then change straight to district line... it is very confusing, they should have ACTUAL picket lines or at least a sign that says "once you go past here you are breaking the strike".


It can be confusing if you're not clear on the demarcations, yes. But it's just something that you try and get clear in your own mind when you know there's industrial action taking place, imo. So, taking Whitechapel as an example, once you get off the Overground you go and catch a bus.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

hm. well now i'm in work and have to get back to nursery by a strict time i don't have much choice. I will bear it in mind for next time tho. i don't really read the papers and don't have a tv so don't get much info, and that info is pretty difficult to find. If there was an actual physical picket line with people explaining then it would do a much better job of having people understand the strike and how to support it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> But you can't just take someone who's been sat behind a desk for 5 years, stick them in a driver's seat and expect them to be able to do they job.



You're trying to argue that it doesn't happen. I know that it does.



> So, everyone who joined ASLEF did so because they are "selfish" did they?  I'm sure their members will be pleased to hear that.  And what does it say about the RMT that people "choose" (according to you) not to join them so they don't lose money (because they have mouths to feed) in strikes? It says what many, many people must think: the RMT go on strike far, far too often.



Yes it's selfish if they use your pathetic argument that they scab because it'd be illegal not to.  And FYI the RMT go on strike when provoked into doing so by LU management and/or TFL. So perhaps they're provoked far, far too often?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

One company - one union. The RMT follow this philosophy, the others don't.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 6, 2014)

marty21 said:


> If bungle ever goes on strike we will all go to his picket line and not cross it



I look forward to it. 'On this day I will be refusing to post any stupid angry bollocks about trains on the internet' 'Right well we'll support you and do the same.'


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 6, 2014)

I have to say, I've met far too many people who condemn the strike outright. It's all Bob Crowe in Brazil/greedy bastards/sit round doing nothing all day etc. Depressing.

I was bemused when I decided to renew my weekly ticket at the station and went to the machines, only for my transaction to be timed out or the money was being rejected. Finally, when the money went through, the transaction cancelled and spat it all out in coin form. Other people were experiencing this, so I had to queue for a bit before the nice man at the ticket office sorted me out with the renewal. I have to ask, when the machines go on the multiple blink when we go ticketless, what happens then?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> I have to ask, when the machines go on the multiple blink when we go ticketless, what happens then?



I'm not sure anybody knows.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

The way I see it is it's none of my business if the strike is "just" or not, I have no insider knowledge so any opinion I gave on that would be ignorant... It is just everyone's business to support strikes when they happen.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm not sure anybody knows.


 
The commuters shall revolt and the machines will rue the day, or something.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 6, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> when the machines go on the multiple blink when we go ticketless, what happens then?


I'm sure there will be plenty of Revenue Protection Officers around to fine you.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> (because they have mouths to feed)



You think the 1,000 station staff threatened with redundancy don't have mouths to feed? Or the people striking yesterday, today and two days next week?


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> You think the 1,000 station staff threatened with redundancy don't have mouths to feed?


Um, where are you getting the figure "1000" from? It's much less than that. And no one has been "threatened" with anything.  All the job losses will be through voluntary redundancy.

Give me one proper reason why members of ASLEF should participate in a strike which is absolute nothing to do with them? Honestly, this is the sort of ridiculous attitude that really gets up the general public's noses re "unions".

It's about time they and you realise things cannot stay the same way forever.  Things change, and there is no sense spending money on something that is not required now.  Otherwise, every train would still have a fireman.



> Or the people striking yesterday, today and two days next week?


No one forced them to go on strike; the chose to do it.  Why sould ASLEF members loose two days pay over dispute they are not involved in?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 6, 2014)

of course people are forced to go on strike, do you think they want to???
what is left but withdrawal of labour when all else fails?
are you happy that you would be safe if you had a heart attack in a tube station with no staff around?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Um, where are you getting the figure "1000" from?



Oh sorry. 960. 



> It's much less than that.



960 isn't *much* less at all. 



> And no one has been "threatened" with anything.  All the job losses will be through voluntary redundancy.



Unless they can't find enough natural wastage which will either lead to compulsory redundancies or redeployments: which in real terms means finding them work elsewhere, usually below their pay grade. And the jobs will still be lost. That's 960 less roles available at a time where unemployment is sky high.



> Give me one proper reason why members of ASLEF should participate in a strike which is absolute nothing to do with them? Honestly, this is the sort of ridiculous attitude that really gets up the general public's noses re "unions".
> 
> It's about time they and you realise things cannot stay the same way forever.  Things change, and there is no sense spending money on something that is not required now.  Otherwise, every train would still have a fireman.
> 
> No one forced them to go on strike; the chose to do it.  Why sould ASLEF members loose two days pay over dispute they are not involved in?



Why should the drivers, maintenance workers, signalmen etc of the RMT strike over jobs being lost in the stations? It's something called solidarity. And if they all just roll over without a fight the govt will be given the green light to cascade the redundancies throughout the company. The striking RMT workers know this. The ASLEF ones apparently not. Maybe when it's their turn to be on the chopping board they may have wished for the support from the other grades.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

ddraig said:


> of course people are forced to go on strike, do you think they want to???
> what is left but withdrawal of labour when all else fails?


When "all else fails"? And how exactly have the RMT attempted to come to an amicable agreement?  They haven't. They did what they always do: as soon as something comes along that they take exception to they immediately decide to go on strike.



> are you happy that you would be safe if you had a heart attack in a tube station with no staff around?


How many more times??  There will be staff around.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Oh sorry. 960.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you cannot be bothered to get even simple facts right how am I supposed to take you or your argument the least bit seriously? The actual number is "up to 750", "up to" obviously meaning that it might not be as many as that.

How about they just accept that things cannot stay the same way for ever.  Do you think trains should still be employing the use of the fireman? Yes or no?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> If you cannot be bothered to get even simple facts right how am I supposed to take you or your argument the least bit seriously? The actual number is "up to 750", "up to" obviously meaning that it might not be as many as that.



Can I ask you where you're getting this figure from? My understanding is 960. The BBC are also reporting that figure.




			
				BBC said:
			
		

> TfL says its proposed changes, which will lead to* 960 *job losses - but none compulsory - will modernise systems and save £50m a year.


----------



## Hellsbells (Feb 6, 2014)

do ticket office staff get paid more than staff just around the station, availble to 'help out'? I'm assuming they do....


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> How about they just accept that things cannot stay the same way for ever.  Do you think trains should still be employing the use of the fireman? Yes or no?



Yes. Why not?


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Can I ask you where you're getting this figure from? My understanding is 960. The BBC are also reporting that figure.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25025888



> London Underground will run weekend services 24 hours under plans that also involve ticket office closures and up to 750 job cuts.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Yes. Why not?


Um, because they are not needed?  So, according to you, we should employ someone to basically do nothing all day?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25025888



So you're quoting something from November last year and I'm quoting something from yesterday. Which do you assume will be the most accurate and up to date?

_If you cannot be bothered to get even simple facts right how am I supposed to take you or your argument the least bit seriously?_


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Um, because they are not needed?  So, according to you, we should employ someone to basically do nothing all day?



Rather than have them living below the poverty line at home all day yes.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 6, 2014)

ah Bungle, you are a selfish tory apologist!
do you have holidays and sick pay in your job?


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Rather than have them living below the poverty line at home all day yes.


Or could just get another job...........?

Honestly, I have no idea if you really believe what you're saying or are just on a wind up. It's got to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Or could just get another job...........?
> 
> Honestly, I have no idea if you really believe what you're saying or are just on a wind up. It's got to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard.



So using the firemen as an example, what sort of work would a trained fireman waltz into at a time when they're laying firemen off and closing stations down?


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 6, 2014)

ddraig said:


> ah Bungle, you are a selfish tory apologist!
> do you have holidays and sick pay in your job?


It's not "selfish" it's realistic.

Which one of you was complaining about TfL ticket prices the other week?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 6, 2014)

are you one of those 'get on your bike' sorts?


----------



## 5t3IIa (Feb 6, 2014)

Mapped said:


> hm. well now i'm in work and have to get back to nursery by a strict time i don't have much choice. I will bear it in mind for next time tho. i don't really read the papers and don't have a tv so don't get much info, and that info is pretty difficult to find. If there was an actual physical picket line with people explaining then it would do a much better job of having people understand the strike and how to support it.



I have urban to teach me what's going on and how to support it


----------



## ddraig (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> It's not "selfish" it's realistic.
> 
> Which one of you was complaining about TfL ticket prices the other week?


'realistic'  ahhh you live in the 'real world'

do you have holiday and sick pay?

i live in Cardiff, rarely use TFL these days but understand solidarity and withdrawal of labour to retain conditions


----------



## 5t3IIa (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> It's not "selfish" it's realistic.
> 
> Which one of you was complaining about TfL ticket prices the other week?



Are you joking?  I mean - are you trolling?


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> I have urban to teach me what's going on and how to support it


hm. i think i'd be a bit confused if i took everything said on here as the truth.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Or could just get another job...........?



And just walk away from their hard won working conditions, pension etc? I fucking loathe liberal scumbags like you.


----------



## EastEnder (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> It's about time they and you realise things cannot stay the same way forever.  Things change, and there is no sense spending money on something that is not required now.  Otherwise, every train would still have a fireman.


I'm not sure that analogy is appropriate - it assumes that the redundancies are for roles that are no longer required. Only LU & Boris seem convinced of that - most people (ime) who actually use tube stations & ticket offices either have their doubts, or outright disagree.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> hm. i think i'd be a bit confused if i took everything said on here as the truth.


It's not about The Truth, it's about a position.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> It's not about The Truth, it's about a position.


my parents taught me my position: Always Vote Labour. i leave the details to more committed people.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> my parents taught me my position: Always Vote Labour. i leave the details to more committed people.



First person I ever voted for was my mum (SDLP). Means nothing.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

I'm only talking about me. not saying it is the cleverest thing, but is probably at least as clever as anyone else has ever come up with.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 6, 2014)

are you trolling?


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

ddraig said:


> are you trolling?


no, what would be the point of that?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> my parents taught me my position: Always Vote Labour. i leave the details to more committed people.


 
My parents were Tories, but luckily I learnt to think for myself.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> my parents taught me my position: Always Vote Labour. i leave the details to more committed people.


so that was a serious post??
how old are you? 19?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 6, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> when the machines go on the multiple blink when we go ticketless, what happens then?



you should respect the machines' right to strike, of course


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> My parents were Tories, but luckily I learnt to think for myself.


i doubt i would have listened to my parents if they were tories, but as they weren't, i did. Also my next door neighbour who wrote trade union local history books. there is something to be said for listening to your elders, particularly if they're right.

Some things you get taught when you're young and you don't quite know why they're right, and maybe even you question them as you go through teenage years and early adulthood, but as you get older you realise they were right after all.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> i doubt i would have listened to my parents if they were tories, but as they weren't, i did. Also my next door neighbour who wrote trade union local history books. there is something to be said for listening to your elders, particularly if they're right.
> 
> Some things you get taught when you're young and you don't quite know why they're right, and maybe even you question them as you go through teenage years and early adulthood, but as you get older you realise they were right after all.


 
Who knows? Maybe if you'd had Tory parents and a next door neighbour who worked at a right wing think tank you'd be saying the same thing?


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Who knows? Maybe if you'd had Tory parents and a next door neighbour who worked at a right wing think tank you'd be saying the same thing?


Yes, that is totally possible as well. If i had a totally different upbringing and background then no doubt my opinions on lots of things would be different to what they are now.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 6, 2014)

Are you really serious rutabowa?


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Are you really serious rutabowa?


about which bit exactly? yes i'm pretty much being serious. Anyone who says they know for sure how they would think if they had grown up in a totally different environment is kidding themselves, I think.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> about which bit exactly? yes i'm pretty much being serious. Anyone who says they know for sure how they would think if they had grown up in a totally different environment is kidding themselves, I think.


About always voting Labour because your parents told you to.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> About always voting Labour because your parents told you to.


always voting labour is true, and it's true my parents said to always vote labour. I doubt there is a 100% correlation though, so the "because" probably isn't right, i definitely don't think "ohhh i better do this because my parents told me to"... but no doubt that upbringing had an influence that still lasts to this day.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 6, 2014)

Ok.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> i doubt i would have listened to my parents if they were tories, but as they weren't, i did. Also my next door neighbour who wrote trade union local history books. there is something to be said for listening to your elders, particularly if they're right.
> 
> Some things you get taught when you're young and you don't quite know why they're right, and maybe even you question them as you go through teenage years and early adulthood, but as you get older you realise they were right after all.





but surely that depends whether the elders around you were right (as in correct, not political wing) or not.

I was brought up fairly orthodox suburban tory, empire loyalist / royalist, know your place, 'respectable' sort of racism / sexism / homophobia and such.

I started thinking for myself when i was about 12 and disagreed with pretty much all of the above, and haven't changed my broad position since.

Maybe I should leave instructions for euthanasia if I do...


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

Having a strong labour background like that makes sure you never go wobbly and end up voting for tory collaborators, so it's no bad thing imo.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> but surely that depends whether the elders around you were right (as in correct, not political wing) or not.


yes i was lucky in that. no doubt i would have figured out fairly early if my parents were wrong, but it turned out they were pretty much right (there's lots i disagree with but the Always Vote Labour thing I think turned out to be right in the end)


----------



## TruXta (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> yes i was lucky in that. no doubt i would have figured out fairly early if my parents were wrong, but it turned out they were pretty much right (there's lots i disagree with but the Always Vote Labour thing I think turned out to be right in the end)


Saves you from engaging your brains at least.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> Having a strong labour background like that makes sure you never go wobbly and end up voting for tory collaborators, so it's no bad thing imo.


 
The 1979 election suggests that this is incorrect, but OK.


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Saves you from engaging your brains at least.


Always with the digs!


----------



## TruXta (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> Always with the digs!


In this case it's warranted. What would it take to make you stop voting Labour?


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> In this case it's warranted. What would it take to make you stop voting Labour?


You don't get serious answers if you make digs, you know that by now.


----------



## marty21 (Feb 6, 2014)

Travel update, managed to get home via the Overground

Well to the pub near home 

*solidarity to the strikers*


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

rutabowa said:


> my parents taught me my position: Always Vote Labour. i leave the details to more committed people.



You do realise that the Labour party your 'elders' encouraged you to vote for looks nothing like the one of today?


----------



## Sue (Feb 6, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Give me one proper reason why members of ASLEF should participate in a strike which is absolute nothing to do with them? Honestly, this is the sort of ridiculous attitude that really gets up the general public's noses re "unions".
> 
> It's about time they and you realise things cannot stay the same way forever.  Things change, and there is no sense spending money on something that is not required now.  Otherwise, every train would still have a fireman.


 
Interested to hear what you have to say about the following -- potentially extremely serious safety implications apart from anything else. Do you really want to be on a station where there's a serious incident and no-one on the spot to take charge?

'In the small print of this dispute is the actual reason and this is not solely about ticket offices and the ramifications are so serious to commuters that people will die. I am going to cite examples affected:

When you hear the broadcast "Will Inspector Sands Please Go To The Operations Room Immediately", that means the fire alarm system has been activated. 120 seconds later the station goes into automatic evacuation. If acknowledged, staff have 5 minutes to identify the location and threat, reset the system if an accidental activation, or an evacuation has to be ordered. If this is not done, the system automatically orders an evacuation. *During those 5 minutes, the Station Supervisor is the person who has to investigate. Under the new proposals, that Station Supervisor may not even be on the station but carrying out the former duties of Duty Managers, managing a Group of stations on a line.*

Inside the Station, the Station Control Room Assistant (formerly Station Control Room Operator) is liaising with the emergency services, the Station Supervisor and management and the Line Controllers (including the Network Rail and TOC's), to advise them of the situation and that services may have to be suspended or non-stop the station. *If the evacuation is ordered or triggers, the SCRA then has to oversee the evacuation and co-ordinate the emergency services. The Station Supervisor remains on location overseeing the evacuation until Bronze Control (used to be a Duty Manager) can assume control, if the incident is serious (chemical spillage, terrorism, suspicious package, actual fire, suicide, person falling under a train, death at station etc) and such incidents are not just limited to a fire alert.*

*With the Station Supervisor not present on a station, this can be quite serious, especially if there has been loss of life, if there is nobody in authority to take charge of an incident on site. The new plans call for this to be managed remotely.*
The SCRA meanwhile facilitating the handover from station management to the emergency services remains on hand to handle all communications during the incident.

Part of these new plans are to reduce in grade the SCRA to that of a Station Assistant (those on the ticket barriers), cutting their pay by up to £10,000 a year, to £23,000. The new digital system will be shown to all staff but only a handful of staff will be assigned to the systems (the ones who are doing it anyway) and they are the only ones who are fully trained (not familiarized) on those systems and the procedures for each type of incident. They are to have their pay cut.

The ticket office staff on the same pay as the SCRA's are to be redeployed after they have re-applied to join London Underground and are to work on the barriers, going back into the ticket office areas to refill the ticket machines and carry out the regular clerical administration (accountancy) and reconciliations and weekly banking for cash collections. They are also to lose £10,000 of their salary and be reduced to £23,000 a year.'


----------



## Sue (Feb 6, 2014)

So I got the North London line home. It was pretty busy and the driver made an announcement saying that while the first two carriages were really busy, the last two weren't so bad so people might want to swap carriages at the next station. Fair enough. She then says, 'Sorry this is such a nightmare. But be assured that when I get home from work, I'll be sticking pins into a Bob Crowe doll.'  Let's hope when she's shafted at work, her colleagues show similar solidarity.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 6, 2014)

Sue said:


> Interested to hear what you have to say about the following -- potentially extremely serious safety implications apart from anything else. Do you really want to be on a station where there's a serious incident and no-one on the spot to take charge?
> 
> 'In the small print of this dispute is the actual reason and this is not solely about ticket offices and the ramifications are so serious to commuters that people will die. I am going to cite examples affected:
> 
> ...



So what? Nothing you've said carries any obvious megative safety implications. All you've said is that the emergency procedure will be different and that some key decisions will escalate to someone off site.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 6, 2014)

Sue said:


> So I got the North London line home. It was pretty busy and the driver made an announcement saying that while the first two carriages were really busy, the last two weren't so bad so people might want to swap carriages at the next station. Fair enough. She then says, 'Sorry this is such a nightmare. But be assured that when I get home from work, I'll be sticking pins into a Bob Crowe doll.'  Let's hope when she's shafted at work, her colleagues show similar solidarity.



She sounds as if she'd have the wit to retrain.


----------



## Sue (Feb 6, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> So what? *Nothing you've said carries any obvious megative safety implications*. All you've said is that the emergency procedure will be different and that some key decisions will escalate to someone off site.


 
Really? You can't see any safety implications with this?


----------



## Sue (Feb 6, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> She sounds as if she'd have the wit to retrain.


 
You're an idiot.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 6, 2014)

Sue said:


> Really? You can't see any safety implications with this?



If it wasn't for the enormous investment in communications technology on the LU estate you might have a tiny vestige of a point. But as it is, staff are networked to the eyeballs. There is no reason for the senior bod to be physically in a particular station to make a decision.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 6, 2014)

Sue said:


> You're an idiot.



You were on a train  where the driver made a valiant effort to raise the morale of pissed-off commuters, and your first thought was "I must get back and whine about this on Urban".


----------



## Numbers (Feb 6, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> You were on a train  where the driver made a valiant effort to raise the morale of pissed-off commuters, and your first thought was "I must get back and whine about this on Urban".


Like most _Urbanites_ I suspect.


----------



## Sue (Feb 6, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> If it wasn't for the enormous investment in communications technology on the LU estate you might have a tiny vestige of a point. But as it is, staff are networked to the eyeballs. There is no reason for the senior bod to be physically in a particular station to make a decision.


 
So no problem not having someone there to assess a potentially serious situation within a very short period of time and make a decision about what to do? What if they're at a different station and can't be got hold of or the communications technology isn't working or there's an emergency evacuation of the station and there's no-one to take charge? You really can't see that any of things would have major safety implications?


----------



## Sue (Feb 6, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> You were on a train  where the driver made a valiant effort to raise the morale of pissed-off commuters, and your first thought was "I must get back and whine about this on Urban".


 
No, I thought, 'What the fuck? Completely out of order.' And I suspect I wasn't alone as there was quite a lot of eyerolling in my carriage. I also thought that if a driver had said something pro the strike or Bob Crowe, someone would've surely complained and they'd be up on a disciplinary.

Not quite sure what your issue is. Unions? Strikes? Solidarity? Or are you just being contrary?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 6, 2014)

Sue said:


> So no problem not having someone there to assess a potentially serious situation within a very short period of time and make a decision about what to do? What if they're at a different station and can't be got hold of or the communications technology isn't working or there's an emergency evacuation of the station and there's no-one to take charge? You really can't see that any of things would have major safety implications?



I'd rather that someone in a central command position who evacuates stations every couple of months is directing things remotely than rely on  timeserving old Bob who has been posted to a little-used station as supervisor on a Buggin's turn basis.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 6, 2014)

Sue said:


> No, I thought, 'What the fuck? Completely out of order.' And I suspect I wasn't alone as there was quite a lot of eyerolling in my carriage. I also thought that if a driver had said something pro the strike or Bob Crowe, someone would've surely complained and they'd be up on a disciplinary.
> 
> Not quite sure what your issue is. Unions? Strikes? Solidarity? Or are you just being contrary?



I'm broadly behind the plans for the Tube. I'd rather have 24 hour running than overmanning and I'm not bothered about protecting middle income public sector jobs in London. Better things to do with the money if you want to be Keynesian, and better places to do it.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 6, 2014)

And I'm mistrustful of unions. Pleaders for special interests with the gift of the gab, who claim that anything that affects their members' interests will be a terrifying disaster for the public. From the BMA to the Police Federation to Crow's lot, they are mendacious and self-serving.


----------



## Sue (Feb 6, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I'd rather that someone in a central command position who evacuates stations every couple of months is directing things remotely than rely on  timeserving old Bob who has been posted to a little-used station as supervisor on a Buggin's turn basis.


 
I wouldn't. I'd rather have someone on the spot, who knew the station/the station staff well than someone dealing with things miles away. And nice to see the contempt you have for tube staff.


----------



## Sue (Feb 6, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I'm broadly behind the plans for the Tube. I'd rather have 24 hour running than overmanning and I'm *not bothered about protecting middle income public sector jobs* in London. Better things to do with the money if you want to be Keynesian, and better places to do it.


 
Nice. And apart from the safety implications, fuck the people getting their pay cut from £32k to £22k as well, eh?


----------



## Sue (Feb 6, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> And I'm mistrustful of unions. Pleaders for special interests with the gift of the gab, who claim that anything that affects their members' interests will be a terrifying disaster for the public. From the BMA to the Police Federation to Crow's lot, they are mendacious and self-serving.


 
And there we have it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Sue said:
			
		

> So I got the North London line home. It was pretty busy and the driver made an announcement saying that while the first two carriages were really busy, the last two weren't so bad so people might want to swap carriages at the next station. Fair enough. She then says, 'Sorry this is such a nightmare. But be assured that when I get home from work, I'll be sticking pins into a Bob Crowe doll.'  Let's hope when she's shafted at work, her colleagues show similar solidarity.



You can complain if drivers give emotive speeches on trains.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2014)

Silas Loom said:
			
		

> If it wasn't for the enormous investment in communications technology on the LU estate you might have a tiny vestige of a point. But as it is, staff are networked to the eyeballs. There is no reason for the senior bod to be physically in a particular station to make a decision.



When the rail network started cutting corners in order to save money the result was Hatfield and Potters Bar.

So it's not as if there isn't precedents for this sort of thing. Youre a fucking clown.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 6, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> When the rail network started cutting corners in order to save money the result was Hatfield and Potters Bar.
> 
> So it's not as if there isn't precedents for this sort of thing. Youre a fucking clown.



Those disasters were caused by infrastructure maintenance issues, which had a lot to do with a fuckwitted privatisation scheme. They had nothing to do with the presence or absence of smiley chappies in booths to sell pasteboard tickets to tourists, or the spurious public safety benefits of a Station Kommandant.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:
			
		

> Those disasters were caused by infrastructure maintenance issues, which had a lot to do with a fuckwitted privatisation scheme. They had nothing to do with the presence or absence of smiley chappies in booths to sell pasteboard tickets to tourists, or the spurious public safety benefits of a Station Kommandant.



They came about due to changing processes in order to cut costs / increase profits.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 7, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> They came about due to changing processes in order to cut costs / increase profits.



"Resist all change!" 

It's an inspiring slogan.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:
			
		

> "Resist all change!"
> 
> It's an inspiring slogan.



The point is: those pushing for change know a great deal about finance and very little about how to run a railway. That's what led to Hatfield and Potters Bar. The facts are available - go read them.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 7, 2014)

> Tube workers are opening the barriers from 9.30-11am and 6.30-8pm today...travel for free in protest at ticket office closures





http://www.rmtlondoncalling.org.uk/revenueaction


----------



## fredfelt (Feb 7, 2014)

Can someone explain to me why fare strikes are not a tactic of tube employees?

Is it because there's less of an impact as people can still get to work?  I expect many people would look on the actions of striking employees in a different light if they worked but refused to collect fares.  And if the fare strike has no impact you can still walk out.


----------



## fredfelt (Feb 7, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.rmtlondoncalling.org.uk/revenueaction




Funny timing - I had not heard about this!


----------



## DownwardDog (Feb 7, 2014)

Anyway, what the fuck was Bob C. doing in Brazil? That wasn't a good look.


----------



## Sue (Feb 7, 2014)

Why shouldn't he go to Brazil? 

Out of interest,  which holiday destinations would you deem appropriate?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 7, 2014)

He went to Brazil to wind up the Daily Mail.

They tore into him for his luxury holiday and then he revealed that he got it on special offer with a voucher from... The Daily Mail.


----------



## DownwardDog (Feb 7, 2014)

Sue said:


> Why shouldn't he go to Brazil?
> 
> Out of interest,  which holiday destinations would you deem appropriate?



The ugly cunt can go wherever he likes - he earns enough poppy. I'm just saying it probably wasn't the best PR move.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 7, 2014)

you are scum silas the type that doesn't care if someone dies at a tube station or at work 
collateral damage for the selfish self serving types who cream a bit off for themselves where reorganisation and retraining opportunities present themselves
shame on you


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 7, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> The point is: those pushing for change know a great deal about finance and very little about how to run a railway. That's what led to Hatfield and Potters Bar. The facts are available - go read them.



The changes are nothing to do with the running of a railway and everything to do with customer service and customer management. In both of these areas technology and customer preference both go in the direction of self-serve.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 7, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> The ugly cunt can go wherever he likes - he earns enough poppy. I'm just saying it probably wasn't the best PR move.


 
Your concern for Bob's success is very touching. Perhaps you could offer your PR skills to the RMT on a voluntary basis?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 7, 2014)

ddraig said:


> you are scum silas the type that doesn't care if someone dies at a tube station or at work
> collateral damage for the selfish self serving types who cream a bit off for themselves where reorganisation and retraining opportunities present themselves
> shame on you



Aren't you from a principality where underground railways were only ever used by the mining industry? What do you know about tube ticket offices?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> Aren't you from a principality where underground railways were only ever used by the mining industry? What do you know about tube ticket offices?


massive unfunny wanker


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Feb 7, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> The ugly cunt can go wherever he likes - he earns enough poppy. I'm just saying it probably wasn't the best PR move.


I heard him say in a television interview that he booked the holiday back in March. He is good at his job as union leader but he does not claim to be a fortune teller.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 7, 2014)

People forget that Boris was on holiday during the 2011 riots and took quite a bit of persuading to come back. (Not that I cared or anything).


----------



## ExtraRefined (Feb 7, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> When the rail network started cutting corners in order to save money the result was Hatfield and Potters Bar.
> 
> So it's not as if there isn't precedents for this sort of thing. Youre a fucking clown.



I wonder how many extra road casualties there were in London this week as a result of all the traffic?


----------



## DownwardDog (Feb 7, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> People forget that Boris was on holiday during the 2011 riots and took quite a bit of persuading to come back. (Not that I cared or anything).



Boris didn't arrange the date of the riot beforehand where as Comrade Copacabana could have had the strike next week.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 7, 2014)

ExtraRefined said:


> I wonder how many extra road casualties there were in London this week as a result of all the traffic?


what point are you making here? it is not clear


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 7, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> Boris didn't arrange the date of the riot beforehand where as Comrade Copacabana could have had the strike next week.


 
Well again, you should put this to RMT when you meet with them in your capacity as PR consultant. But from here, it looks like the strike went well and Crow has done a good job representing his members' interests.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 7, 2014)

We'll have to resend the memo to Bob that under no circumstances is he to wear other than sackcloth and ashes, and only holiday in camp sites on the Norfolk coast. Can't be sending the wrong message now can we?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 7, 2014)

TruXta said:


> We'll have to resend the memo to Bob that under no circumstances is he to wear other than sackcloth and ashes, and only holiday in camp sites on the Norfolk coast. Can't be sending the wrong message now can we?


 
Thing is, Truxta, he works hard, _he creates jobs_. We need to pay people like that top whack and let them have fancy holidays or they will all flee the country...


----------



## TruXta (Feb 7, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Thing is, Truxta, he works hard, _he creates jobs_. We need to pay people like that top whack and let them have fancy holidays or they will all flee the country...


You mean he'll move to Wales?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 7, 2014)

he'd be very very welcome


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Feb 7, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> Boris didn't arrange the date of the riot beforehand where as Comrade Copacabana could have had the strike next week.


Yes I liked the joke about Comrade Copacabana, but to be fair to Bob he didn't arrange for the date of the strike back in March. It was as a result of the breakdown of negotiations with TfL. It might seem a cold-blooded decision to many but is more a dynamic response to events.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 7, 2014)

I bet it would look really good re-arranging a strike date to suit your holiday, and everybody would agree to it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 7, 2014)

It just shows you how much effort is being made to (a) personalise it all as being the result of one person and (b) demonise that person by any means necessary. Utterly transparent. It's a whole union, a collective organisation - Bob Crow is not King Of Strikers.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 7, 2014)

Agreed. The leadership is important in any organisation but they lead by consent. Focusing on the personalities is reductive, inaccurate and  helpful only to tabloids or politicians who want to tell simple, crude stories.

That's why I've been consistently calling for the extra-judicial extraordinary rendition of the whole RMT senior team, though, not just Crow.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> Agreed. The leadership is important in any organisation but they lead by consent. Focusing on the personalities is reductive, inaccurate and  helpful only to tabloids or politicians who want to tell simple, crude stories.
> 
> That's why I've been consistently calling for the extra-judicial extraordinary rendition of the whole RMT senior team, though, not just Crow.


Why limit it to the senior team? Why not the whole of the organisation down to the lowest member and all of their wives, children and known associates? You might have to enlarge GTMO  a bit though.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 7, 2014)

We may have to do without scruples, Hocus, but we cannot lose our sense of proportionality.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> We may have to do without scruples, Hocus, but we cannot lose our sense of proportionality.


no we don't have to do without them however much you convince yourself that your shitty selfish path is the right one.
self important deluded idiot


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

ExtraRefined said:
			
		

> I wonder how many extra road casualties there were in London this week as a result of all the traffic?



They're all crawling out from the rot now.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 7, 2014)

ExtraRefined said:


> I wonder how many extra road casualties there were in London this week as a result of all the traffic?


 
I suspect there would have been less road casualties because traffic was at a stanstill through much of London from what I saw.

more pollution though, sadly - an unfortunatel by-product of campaigning for a better public transport system that will lead to less pollution in the long run.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 7, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I suspect there would have been less road casualties because traffic was at a stanstill through much of London from what I saw.
> 
> more pollution though, sadly - an unfortunatel by-product of campaigning for a better public transport system that will lead to less pollution in the long run.


Plus more people walking and biking, added health benefits from that.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> And I'm mistrustful of unions. Pleaders for special interests with the gift of the gab, who claim that anything that affects their members' interests will be a terrifying disaster for the public. From the BMA to the Police Federation to Crow's lot, they are mendacious and self-serving.


 
As opposed to the civil servants, politicians and capitalists that run the country?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 7, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> As opposed to the civil servants, politicians and capitalists that run the country?



As opposed to civil servants, yes. Politicians and capitalists are dangerous and untrustworthy in their own ways. But we have an enviably uncorrupt senior administrative class.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> As opposed to civil servants, yes. Politicians and capitalists are dangerous and untrustworthy in their own ways. But we have an enviably uncorrupt senior administrative class.


You've got to be fucking kidding me.

The institutional policy bias of the Civil Service is pretty well known, just read any of Tony Benn's diaries from the second half of the 1970s.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:
			
		

> The changes are nothing to do with the running of a railway and everything to do with customer service and customer management. In both of these areas technology and customer preference both go in the direction of self-serve.



And your experience in this field is?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 7, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> And your experience in this field is?



Irrelevant to the point. Play the ball.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> Aren't you from a principality where underground railways were only ever used by the mining industry? What do you know about tube ticket offices?


 
and



Silas Loom said:


> Irrelevant to the point. Play the ball.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Feb 7, 2014)

if you think that busting the RMT (which is what this is really all about) is going to improve services or reduce costs to passengers, you're in dreamland.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

Silas Loom said:
			
		

> Irrelevant to the point. Play the ball.




Not irrelevant at all. If you're going to claim to be an authority on what the changes  will affect It'd be nice to know whether you are basing your views on experience or pulling the info out from between your bum cheeks.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 7, 2014)

he's a fucking consultant cunt or outsourcing type who leeches public money which is then spent on bullshit efficiency that don't actually produce savings in the long run and do endanger people as corners have to be cut for the likes of him to get his cut
gutless self serving service sucker


----------



## Lo Siento. (Feb 7, 2014)

ddraig said:


> he's a fucking consultant cunt or outsourcing type who leeches public money which is then spent on bullshit efficiency that don't actually produce savings in the long run and do endanger people as corners have to be cut for the likes of him to get his cut
> gutless self serving service sucker


Some people seem to live in this imaginary dreamland where Johnson will finally break the RMT ushering in an era of fantasy rationalization, slashing costs & fares, eliminating waste, investing saved money in infrastructure.

All utter bollocks. If you want to see the reality of weaker unions, it's privatization, profiteering, subsidies & price-gouging for the consumer and tax payer, with a side order of exploitation and lack of job security for the workforce. See privatised train lines & cities with deregulated bus services for details...


----------



## scifisam (Feb 7, 2014)

If someone in a wheelchair needs to access the underground, they call ahead and book staff to help them up and down the escalators and stairs. Does anyone really think that will work smoothly with remote management and far fewer staff on site? 

That's why I'm in favour of this strike even though it has personally cost me money.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2014)

Rumour mill saying the strike is off...


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england/london

Just TSSA it seems.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 11, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Rumour mill saying the strike is off...


 
Booo. I was looking forward to a lie in tomorrow. Still, hope their demands have been met.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2014)

Strike suspended.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 11, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> hope their demands have been met.


_
"We have now agreed a process where all our serious concerns over safety and job losses will be seriously addressed through the normal channels"_

Sounds like the opening of negotiations rather than anything conclusive.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2014)

Silas Loom said:
			
		

> "We have now agreed a process where all our serious concerns over safety and job losses will be seriously addressed through the normal channels"
> 
> Sounds like the opening of negotiations rather than anything conclusive.



They can always ballot the members again.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Feb 11, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> They can always ballot the members again.


They can. But they've also got to be aware that strikes very rarely get going again after a socking great pause in the middle. You'd hope that they've got a bit more guarantees than "we'll talk" at this stage.

Note, incidentally, how the press was all arsey about the ballot turnout to go on strike, but they won't give a shit about union leaders calling the whole thing off unilaterally and the democratic process for forcing whatever it is they negotiate down members throats will never be questioned.


----------



## marty21 (Feb 11, 2014)

damn, I was looking forward to seeing the faces of people who don't normally get buses having to get buses and not knowing what the fuck is going on


----------



## ddraig (Feb 11, 2014)

you heartless bastard!!! you must be one of them union types


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 11, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> They can. But they've also got to be aware that strikes very rarely get going again after a socking great pause in the middle. You'd hope that they've got a bit more guarantees than "we'll talk" at this stage.




iirc RMT have a record of being willing to talk, finding no traction (eh) over key issues from mngmnt, re-balloting and striking at another time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 11, 2014)

ddraig said:


> you heartless bastard!!! you must be one of them union types


he makes them cry, he's one of them onion types


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:
			
		

> iirc RMT have a record of being willing to talk, finding no traction (eh) over key issues from mngmnt, re-balloting and striking at another time.



Should have said 'track record' for double punnage.


----------



## marty21 (Feb 11, 2014)

ddraig said:


> you heartless bastard!!! you must be one of them union types


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 5, 2014)

> I write to update you on the situation within LUL following our decision to suspend further industrial action last month.
> 
> We are now half way into the seven week period of extensive talks. In this time there was an initial meeting of the JWP to set out a programme for the seven weeks. Then, the week before last, there were two further meetings of the JWP. Last week we met as a main group once and this was followed by smaller working meetings. These are now pencilled in for up until the end of March together with weekly meetings of the main group.
> 
> ...


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 17, 2014)

The RMT announce a further 5 days of strike action. Can't find a link on it yet.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 17, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> The RMT announce a further 5 days of strike action. Can't find a link on it yet.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27069391


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 17, 2014)

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/every-job-matters--defending-jobs-on-london-underground1704/


----------



## TotallyGreatGuy (Apr 17, 2014)

Im a man of the people and take buses strike or no strike.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2014)

BBC reporting on this issue, but not declaring its interest.  BBC is a CBI member. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27181215


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 28, 2014)

CBI?


----------



## Badgers (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> CBI?



http://lmgtfy.com/?q=CBI


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> CBI?


EYE-ESS-O


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> CBI?




Confederation of British Industry. lobby group type org for business interests.

its come out during the Scots indy debates that the beeb are members


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> CBI?


http://www.cbi.org.uk/

The "UK's top business organisation".  It campaigns on infrastructure, public services, industrial relations and much more.

It has only recently emerged that the BBC is a member.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2014)

which is leading some of us to even further mock the beebs supposed nuetrality


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## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

and as soon as it emerged the bbc suspended its membership


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## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> which is leading some of us to even further mock the beebs supposed nuetrality


mock the weak


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## Bungle73 (Apr 28, 2014)

I'm not sure what that has to do with a dispute between TfL and rail unions over ticket office closures?


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## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I'm not sure what that has to do with a dispute between TfL and rail unions over ticket office closures?


it's a pun


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> and as soon as it emerged the bbc suspended its membership


No it didn't.  Suspension has not yet begun.  Scheduled for 30th May.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I'm not sure what that has to do with a dispute between TfL and rail unions over ticket office closures?


The "UK's top business organisation" campaigns on infrastructure, public services, industrial relations and much more.  BBC is therefore a member of an organisation that takes public positions on the issues involved.


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## Bungle73 (Apr 28, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> it's a pun


A pun? What?


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## Bungle73 (Apr 28, 2014)

Badgers said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=CBI


I know about THAT CBI, I was just struggling to understand how it fitted in. The initials CBI could have been anything as far as I am concerned.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I know about THAT CBI, I was just struggling to understand how it fitted in.


http://www.cbi.org.uk/business-issues/


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2014)

Also note that a number of public bodies in Scotland have turned out to be CBI members.  Do we know TfL is not a CBI member?  CBI is very cagey about membership, it turns out.


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## 5t3IIa (Apr 28, 2014)

Is this happening? I want to go out late later


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## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Also note that a number of public bodies in Scotland have turned out to be CBI members.  Do we know TfL is not a CBI member?  CBI is very cagey about membership, it turns out.




perhaps the government should sequester its assets until it is determined that the organisation has been acting correctly.


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## Badgers (Apr 28, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> Is this happening? I want to go out late later



Yes @ 9pm 

Take the Scab Bus if you want to go out


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## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> A pun? What?


mock the week is a tv programme


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## 5t3IIa (Apr 28, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Yes @ 9pm
> 
> Take the Scab Bus if you want to go out



Is the Overground included?


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## Badgers (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I know about THAT CBI, I was just struggling to understand how it fitted in.



Your post was very vague. 



Bungle73 said:


> The initials CBI could have been anything as far as I am concerned.



Not really.


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 28, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> Is the Overground included?


No. But it may be quite full.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Yes @ 9pm
> 
> Take the Scab Bus if you want to go out




Taxi of solidarity only


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## 5t3IIa (Apr 28, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No. But it may be quite full.



As long as I don't drink too much and can make it without needing a pee I should be OK!


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 28, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> As long as I don't drink too much and can make it without needing a pee I should be OK!



But there's free booze at this thing tonight. You must drink, lots


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## 5t3IIa (Apr 28, 2014)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> But there's free booze at this thing tonight. You must drink, lots



Let me check my job description and contract.... oh wait.


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## Bungle73 (Apr 28, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> mock the week is a tv programme


Um, I know that. But what's it got to do with my question?  I never even mentioned it. 


Badgers said:


> Your post was very vague


It wasn't really.


> Not really.


Have you any idea how many organisations, and other things, have similar or the same initials? As I already point out, I didn't link a TfL internal industrial dispute with a the Confederation of British Industries.


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## Badgers (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> It wasn't really.



It was.



Bungle73 said:


> Have you any idea how many organisations, and other things, have similar or the same initials? As I already point out, I didn't link a TfL internal industrial dispute with a the Confederation of British Industries.



Not really that many. 
As a guide the initials 'CBI' only refer to one UK organisation, company or group in the UK - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBI

Hope that clears things up for you.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Um, I know that. But what's it got to do with my question?  I never even mentioned it.
> 
> It wasn't really.
> 
> Have you any idea how many organisations, and other things, have similar or the same initials? As I already point out, I didn't link a TfL internal industrial dispute with a the Confederation of British Industries.


your q was after my post. if you were asking something else you fucked it up


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## Bungle73 (Apr 28, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> your q was after my post. if you were asking something else you fucked it up


I didn't fuck it up, you did.  I typed my reply at the same time you were typing yours.....


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## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I didn't fuck it up, you did.  I typed my reply at the same time you were typing yours.....


this is why you should master the quote function. if you quote the person you're replying to you don't end up looking like a muppet, as you have here.


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## Bungle73 (Apr 28, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> this is why you should master the quote function. if you quote the person you're replying to you don't end up looking like a muppet, as you have here.


I never expected you to admit you were in the wrong.....

I was typing on my phone, and I didn't expect some muppet to chime in and start talking about something entirely unrelated.  And if you actually had a brain you would have realised what I was talking about.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I never expected you to admit you were in the wrong.....


that's probably because i'm not in the wrong.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I was typing on my phone, and I didn't expect some muppet to chime in and start talking about something entirely unrelated.  And if you actually had a brain you would have realised what I was talking about.


if you had even half a brain you'd have quoted the person you were replying to.


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## Bungle73 (Apr 28, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> if you had even half a brain you'd have quoted the person you were replying to.


I'm not used to dealing with simpletons.

This is an entirely pointless argument.  I'm out......


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## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> I'm not used to dealing with simpletons.
> 
> This is an entirely pointless argument.  I'm out......


on your way and close the door after you.


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## Badgers (Apr 29, 2014)

How was your journey Bungle73?


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## Badgers (Apr 29, 2014)

My favourite #tubestrike tweet of the day:


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## littlebabyjesus (Apr 29, 2014)

"just saying" the fallback of the twat


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## 5t3IIa (Apr 29, 2014)

Fucking HELL my day is RUINED


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## Badgers (Apr 29, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> "just saying" the fallback of the twat



It is the default hashtag of #acunt in my opinion


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## flypanam (Apr 29, 2014)

Look at this for load of wank

https://www.facebook.com/borisjohnson/posts/10152147276576317


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 29, 2014)

Hmm not sure how well that has come out. Hang on.


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 29, 2014)

Sorry about the largeness and repetition of the images.

Boycott, anyway.

ETA: "lol"


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## dolly's gal (Apr 29, 2014)

i got an overground from Walthamstow and then a Boris bike from Liverpool Street to Bloomsbury this morning. My hair got totally ruined, and some bloke shouted at me from his van, 'you shouldn't be let on the fucking roads!'. whateves mate, solidarity with the terrorists an all that...


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## Citizen66 (Apr 29, 2014)

The press appear to be gleefully reporting that there's been loads of scabbing.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 29, 2014)

There were more people than normal on Hungerford Bridge this morning and evening, RMT are such cunts, my journey was delayed by a good 45 seconds


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## Greebo (May 2, 2014)

Another one starts this coming Tuesday.


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## Bungle73 (May 5, 2014)

The forthcoming strike has been called off!


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## Greebo (May 5, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> The forthcoming strike has been called off!


Are you sure about that?  ACAS called both sides back in today, but that's the most recent thing I've heard about it.


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## Bungle73 (May 5, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Are you sure about that?  ACAS called both sides back in today, but that's the most recent thing I've heard about it.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27282596


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## Greebo (May 5, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27282596


Thanks.


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## scifisam (May 6, 2014)

I really hope this means TFL are going to agree to significant concessions rather than the other way round.


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## marty21 (May 6, 2014)

Badgers said:


> My favourite #tubestrike tweet of the day:



 I tweeted him back with a one word reply  'bollocks'


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## Citizen66 (Oct 7, 2014)

Further strikes announced from 9pm 14th oct 48hr walkout.


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## Bungle73 (Oct 7, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Further strikes announced from 9pm 14th oct 24hr walkout.


48 hours actually.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29516508


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## Citizen66 (Oct 7, 2014)

Sorry, yes (im tired!  ), post amended.


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## Citizen66 (Oct 9, 2014)

Strike suspended.


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## ska invita (Nov 25, 2021)

BUMP 
Tube strike tomorrow - Fri 26th 
 Victoria, Central, Northern, Jubilee, Piccadilly and Waterloo and City 
Could be grim


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## marty21 (Nov 26, 2021)

ska invita said:


> BUMP
> Tube strike tomorrow - Fri 26th
> Victoria, Central, Northern, Jubilee, Piccadilly and Waterloo and City
> Could be grim


Didn't realise , I guess I'll have to do more walking & buses today.


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