# Should the 360 retire gracefully?



## Picadilly Commando (Oct 10, 2011)

Firstly I am not saying the 360 is crap. I would like to make that point clear.

What I am saying though is the 360 has had it's day and it should retire now whilst it still has some dignity. A rubbish an analogy but many of the best comedies stopped being made before they grew tiresome and lost their sparkle. The 360 really needs to do the same. I know it's not all about graphics; but really... what has the 360 got to offer games developers at the moment? Antiquated architecture and hardware that is eclipsed by the most basic of "smart phones".

MS should stop trying to milk every last drop out of the 360 and concentrate on bringing out their new console. It's not fair on the games developers or the parents who keep forking out £40 for the latest game (that has been vastly dumbed down for the platform, e.g. BF).

The PS3 is a better piece of kit and as such still has life, and when it is ancient, you can still use it for things other than playing games.

Come on MS, but the old girl to bed, it's getting a bit embarrassing.


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## ohmyliver (Oct 10, 2011)

" what has the 360 got to offer games developers at the moment? " 

millions of people people own 360s, and buy games to run on it?


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## Picadilly Commando (Oct 10, 2011)

With that rationale car manufactures would still be making cars that ran on four star.

And don't think that the "720" doesn't exist, of course it does. Only a very few trusted developers and hardware manufactures will be in on it but it will exist. The iPhone 4 was in the labs when the first iPhone was launched.

It's called progress. A small but important word.

So what has a platform that is nearly a decade old got to offer?


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## kained&able (Oct 10, 2011)

if people cant afford to frok out £49 quid on games they arent going to fork out £400 for a new console.


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## Picadilly Commando (Oct 10, 2011)

Who said they can't afford to "frok" out £49? I'll reiterate the point since you cearly have difficulty understanding it. Why pay that much money for something that is so old, at least with PC games you're getting the latest development for your money (DX11) and not something my phone is capable of running.


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## kained&able (Oct 10, 2011)

you seemed to be implying it.

anyway i reckon the current xbox has got a good year in it yet. some of the new games look very very pretty. Especially the fps games


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## Picadilly Commando (Oct 10, 2011)

I think they personally look rubbish when you see what the PC had to offer three or four years ago, or even what the PS3 can deliver now.

People just seem to be very precious about their antiques.


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## ohmyliver (Oct 10, 2011)

exactly mr able, the global economy is fairly f*cked at the moment, I'd imagine a new console would be fairly far down the list of 'good uses for 400 quid' for a lot of people at the mo. If I was developing a game now, I'd want it to work on platforms that millions of people own, and buy games on, rather than some platform that might come at some point in the future...

"the Iphone 4 was in the labs when the first iphone was launched?'
Really? Got any actual evidence for that?

P.s. I own a PS3 and a PC, not an Xbox 360 if that makes any difference


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## bemused (Oct 10, 2011)

Given Sony aren't going to launch a PS4 for a long time MS don't need to do anything.


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## Crispy (Oct 10, 2011)

The argument that more powerful consoles are better for the industry as a whole is questionable. With each increase in power has come an increase in graphical fidelity. And that requires more and more manpower to produce more and more detailed assets. The budget for blockbuster videogames is now only barely sustainable. If it doesn't sell millions of copies, it doesn't make a profit. If the current trends of computing power and budgets were extrapolated, the industry would be able to afford a handful of big games each year and the consumer had better bloody well buy them!

Unless the industry can come up with a way to reduce costs, there is no business case for a massive jump in console power.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 10, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The argument that more powerful consoles are better for the industry as a whole is questionable. With each increase in power has come an increase in graphical fidelity. And that requires more and more manpower to produce more and more detailed assets. The budget for blockbuster videogames is now only barely sustainable. If it doesn't sell millions of copies, it doesn't make a profit. If the current trends of computing power and budgets were extrapolated, the industry would be able to afford a handful of big games each year and the consumer had better bloody well buy them!
> 
> Unless the industry can come up with a way to reduce costs, there is no business case for a massive jump in console power.



I do wonder how many games make a reasonable profit now tbh. It seems like there's a handful of really massive games every year and then a lot more that end up selling very cheaply inside a few weeks, and those are often quite good games.


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## Kizmet (Oct 10, 2011)

The big hitters sell big, though... and fund a lot of near misses.


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## Crispy (Oct 10, 2011)

Just like movies and music


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## kained&able (Oct 10, 2011)

this is why ea own the world.

dave


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## Kizmet (Oct 10, 2011)

Aye. And you're right that it's a barely sustainable model. I think, though, it would be hard to conceive another model that would create that kind of turnover of new and ever improving games.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2011)

Crispy nails it but to answer the OP: No. The PSOne lasted ten years why should the 360 go given how successfully it is? Also, the point made above about the world economy is bang on also, there's no way I'd be spending 400 quid on a new console given how well the 360 is doing for me gaming wise.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 10, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Crispy nails it but to answer the OP: No. The PSOne lasted ten years why should the 360 go given how successfully it is? Also, the point made above about the world economy is bang on also, there's no way I'd be spending 400 quid on a new console given how well the 360 is doing for me gaming wise.



You say that until there is that game you really must play and it's only available on the new platform.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> You say that until there is that game you really must play and it's only available on the new platform.



Not likely though is it? Can you see any new consoles of any power on the horizon? Hell the latest console is the bloody Wii U which is barely as powerful as the er 360!


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## Crispy (Oct 10, 2011)

Depends what you mean by "ever-improving"
The only thing that the current generation has given us over the last is better graphics. There hasn't been fundamental innovation in mainstream video games for a long time - all the gameplay features of Halo Reach, say, could happily be done on the old Xbox, just with less shiny graphics.. What's missing is real creative talent. The standard of writing in videogames is absolutely apalling. There are TV movies on channel five at 3 in the morning that have more convincing characters. A player is a fundamentally different thing to a viewer and I don't think that is taken seriously by many designers. I think a lot of the effort expended on making video games is misdirected into making them viscerally thrilling like a hollywood movie. Which is fine, if they were making a hollywood movie.

Hard problem to solve, because it's still a young artform and it still doesn't have a full enough design vocabulary to stand on its own.


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## Kizmet (Oct 10, 2011)

I mean ever improving in the sense that the games themselves are growing in scope, structure and ambition. It is hard to think of gameplay improvements, though.

In general those are linked to functionality... equipment... method of interaction.

Would you not consider the Wii or kinetix or whatever it's called to be innovations? Or motion control in smart phones.

It would be interesting to see if ms make the link between 360 control systems and the Windows phones.... that might give the Wii a run for its money!


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## bi0boy (Oct 10, 2011)

This is why we need strong AI, to write computer games.


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## tommers (Oct 10, 2011)

You've got a really good PC.

Get over it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2011)

+1


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 11, 2011)

Show me a game on PS3 that looks better than Gears of War 3?


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## cybershot (Oct 11, 2011)

Or Rage.

Anyway, next Xbox is all but confirmed as in development, and will probably be in the shops by this time next year, if not April 2013.

The mass amount of games that are coming out right now imo confirm this, as the studios are doing their final big projects on the current generation, and will be starting development for the next Xbox and to a certain degree the next Playstation.

I think the console vendors have made it pretty clear they intend to keep the kit in production for 10 or so years, and despite the original RRPs being rather expensive at launch, when you take that into account, you can't argue. A new PC can set you back more and doesn't last anywhere near as long. Console prices then drop about half way through their lifespan dramitically, and 360's now are generally the same price if not cheaper than Wii's. So dependant on when you buy one, imo, your getting good value for money regardless of if you jump straight in, or wait a while.

I honestly don't see the PS3 having the lifespan Sony intended it to have due to how late they entered this generation. It's already lost them a shedload and they can't afford to get left behind by Microsoft again, and to an extent even Nintendo if the Wii U takes off.

I really can't be arsed with PC gaming anymore. It's such a pain in the arse, I go to LAN parties with some of my mates about 4/5 times a year, half the time is spent fucking around with people's PCs and tinkering. I only buy games we play at them, and I've got quite strict that if the game doesn't support local LAN play as well as online then I'm not even going to bother.

It does my head in. I'd rather just put a disc in and get going.

For the record, I own 360, PS3 and PC. So I am not biased at all. However I use the Xbox the most by far. Implying the Xbox can do nothing other than play games as well is a serious case of being ill informed. It does plenty of other thing's infact pretty much everything the PS3 offers and by November 25th, probably even more than the PS3 except for blurays.


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## grit (Oct 11, 2011)

cybershot said:


> Or Rage.
> 
> Anyway, next Xbox is all but confirmed as in development, and will probably be in the shops by this time next year, if not April 2013.



It is confirmed, I dont know where you getting your timelines from though.


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## treelover (Oct 11, 2011)

Well, after being console sceptic for ages I recently bought a 2nd hand 360 recently and have been playing COD3 which looks great, Alan Wake, ditto, and of course Halo Reach which looks and plays particularly good, textures coould be better for them all, but lighting, etc is amazing.

Dead Space 2 looks as good as the PC afias..

though LA Noire could have a bit more graphical fidelity..


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## cybershot (Oct 11, 2011)

grit said:


> It is confirmed, I dont know where you getting your timelines from though.



I think they'll turn it around quite quick after they get everyone's tongue's wet at next years E3. It's just a hunch.


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## no-no (Oct 12, 2011)

Services like onlive will slowly take over, why would you pay for a console that's going to be out of date in 5-6 years time? That's if it hasn't had some kind of hardware failure in the meantime.

I can't think of many reasons why an online game streaming service like onlive would be inferior to an actual console....actually I can think of a couple....

Blu-Ray & DVD playback
Ability to play pirate or homebrew stuff - (less and less likely these days anyhow...)


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## Crispy (Oct 12, 2011)

A good connection is required at _all_ times
Latency is impaired
No mods (PC games only)


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## Corax (Oct 12, 2011)

Is this a fanboy thread in disguise?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 12, 2011)

Only a tiny percentage of people have a net connection fast enough.


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## no-no (Oct 12, 2011)

Yeah the connection thing is a major drawback, I play so much multiplayer these days that a connection is pretty much always needed anyway.

Do you reckon you'll need that fast a line? It's just streaming the video right and the commands from the controller backup to the onlive servers, doesn't seem like it's going to be much more greedy than streaming a movie.

If I had my way I'd have a PC as my gaming machine, I can't afford to keep up with the graphics card upgrades though. For a lot of people online services will make a lot of sense whether it's onlive themselves or the offerings sony and microsoft are bound produce eventually.
It makes more sense for them too doesn't it, sony and microsoft make a tiny margin on the actual consoles, most of the profit comes from the games, or is that bullshit?


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## Sunray (Oct 12, 2011)

cybershot said:


> Or Rage.
> 
> Anyway, next Xbox is all but confirmed as in development, and will probably be in the shops by this time next year, if not April 2013.
> 
> ...



I use steam for a while now and I've never had a problem.  Just download and works.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 12, 2011)

Tried to be legit...spent a fair bit on there, not logged in for a while, then got an error message saying that I'd tried to use multiple IDs and I was blocked. Never responded to emails to even bother giving an explanation.

Fuck them, I'll torrent stuff from now.


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## Crispy (Oct 12, 2011)

The difference is that the connection needs to be consistent. When you're streaming a movie, it can buffer ahead by many minutes. If the connection drops to 10kbps for a second then you'd never know - the movie plays continuously. Onlive would respond to that 1 second connection burp by being completely unresponsive for that 1 second. Freeze frame. Completely unacceptable for anything but the slowest moving games.

And yes, the profit comes from the games. At the start of a cycle, the hardware is sold at a _loss._ It's only about now that MS and Sony are making a profit from hardware. Nintendo, by releasing relatively low powered consoles the last two generations, have been making profit on hardware continuously for years.

The funny thing with PC gaming is that because the market is now so console-focused, most PC games are ports of console games rather than the other way round. Because the PS3 and 360 are 5 years old now, even a cheap PC can run most modern games well. The only real benefit of a powerful graphics card is a sharper picture. (There are a handful of exceptions). I'm seriously considering putting a <£500 gaming/media serving computer for the lounge.


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## Gromit (Oct 12, 2011)

The spec race days were stupid even when people could afford it. 


Current 360 games are great. Why do we ever need greater spec than we have?


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## Crispy (Oct 12, 2011)

Gromit said:


> The spec race days were stupid even when people could afford it.
> 
> Current 360 games are great. Why do we ever need greater spec than we have?


More RAM would be nice. 512MB forces lots of limitations on what coders and artists can do


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## grit (Oct 12, 2011)

Crispy said:


> More RAM would be nice. 512MB forces lots of limitations on what coders and artists can do



True, however one of my professors at the moment was a designer on the PS3 and has colleagues who were involved with the 360 architecture. He is adamant that neither device have really been pushed to their limits yet.

Part of this is the fact that a lot of parallel programming is in its infancy so few are sure on how to exploit the full power of the cell processor.


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## kabbes (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm still more than happy with my 360.  If they brought out another console right now then I wouldn't upgrade.


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## Cloud (Oct 12, 2011)

Just play BF3 on a PC in ultra on a large 1080p display with dolby surround sound and tell me you dont want to feel like that regardless of what you have to do to get it (i.e buy new console) lol. My pc is less than a year old and struggles but if i had the money I'd be upgrading, It's just an awesome experience.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 12, 2011)

Cloud said:


> Just play BF3 on a PC in ultra on a large 1080p display with dolby surround sound and tell me you dont want to feel like that regardless of what you have to do to get it (i.e buy new console) lol. My pc is less than a year old and struggles but if i had the money I'd be upgrading, It's just an awesome experience.



Bloody hell what kind of monster of game is this? My CPU is pushing 3 years old and graphics card 1.5 and havn't found anything that makes me think about upgrading.


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## grit (Oct 12, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Bloody hell what kind of monster of game is this? My CPU is pushing 3 years old and graphics card 1.5 and havn't found anything that makes me think about upgrading.



Its not a fair comparison as its a beta running on preview drivers so performance will be improved a lot at release.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 12, 2011)

Ah ok!


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## kabbes (Oct 12, 2011)

I have a pretty decent PC that can play games that are graphically much more impressive than the 360.  And I have a friend that stays at the bleeding edge with PC gaming, which he plays via a high-def projector in his personal cinema (because he is a corporate lawyer with more money to burn than he knows what to do with).  So I know exactly what's out there right now.  But I honestly can't say that this top-end graphical fidelity makes a jot of difference to me.  PS2 to 360 was a massive step up graphically and one that had a real impact.  360 to current state-of-the-art PC just doesn't have one-tenth of the impact.


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## tommers (Oct 12, 2011)

But it's an antique embarrassment!


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## revol68 (Oct 12, 2011)

have a look at BF3 running on even even a pretty dated PC (eg my 5770 with q6600) and it really does shit all over the PS3 or 360 versions.

Half the reason PC games haven't tended to look so much superior is cos they have been essentially console ports in the main. When you see something like BF3 or even the Stalker titles the superiority of the PC shines through.

The 360 is a freak in how long it's lasted and it's annoying that MS seem to want to push shite like Kinect to fucking gimps who want to make a twat of themselves falling around a living room rather than getting a fucking new generation of console out that isn't a fucking disgraceful cut down PC from 2000.


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## kabbes (Oct 12, 2011)

I have Stalker.  And I have played Battlefield.  They look a lot better than the 360, I agree.  But they aren't better games than those that I have enjoyed this year on the 360. The extra graphical fidelity just does nothing for me.  Vanquish, for example, is already a graphical extravaganza.  I don't know what more you could really do to it that would improve the experience.


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## kabbes (Oct 12, 2011)

^^^That's not to say that there isn't an improvement out there waiting to happen.  But I personally am not ready for it yet.  I think tech still has some way to improve before it is worth the leap.


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## Crispy (Oct 12, 2011)

revol68 said:


> have a look at BF3 running on even even a pretty dated PC (eg my 5770 with q6600) and it really does shit all over the PS3 or 360 versions.


Does it _play_ any better?


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## kabbes (Oct 12, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Does it _play_ any better?


Does any team FPS actually play any better than Team Fortress 2, running on the 7 year-old source engine?


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## revol68 (Oct 12, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Does it _play_ any better?



plays awesome

and yeah i know everyone likes to go on about gameplay beating graphics but when you've got awesome gameplay the graphics are just the incredible icing on the cake.

BF3 is stunning.


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## tommers (Oct 13, 2011)

How much did your PC cost you Rev?  I'm genuinely interested.  And do you play it on a monitor or TV or what?


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## Mapped (Oct 13, 2011)




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## Cloud (Oct 13, 2011)

revol68 said:


> BF3 is stunning.



I coudln't agree more. The sound is also the best I've heard in any game so far.

I have to play in medium setting at 1080p but I get around 32-40 fps at that and there is little difference in looks to ultra setting (to me anyway), it still looks incredible. It's a pity it's one of those rare upgrade titles, the game you pay a grand to play... but it does run on anything over a dual core 2.8 even with something like an x1950 pro. Basically any pc that will run xbox graphics is going to be able to play this in low settings. I still think it will be good. Remeber you don't have to run in such a high res, you can always drop down but I didn't notice higher frames so I dunno on that one.

It has borrowed heavily from Counter Strike, some may not initially like it, the game is almost too realistic and you spend alot of time flat on your stomach while bullets fly past. When you get the extremely important team aspects of the game then you get hooked, this is no mr ownage game where one guy runs round the map shotting everyone. You need that medic and ammo. They have also sorted out the annoying attacks on ground troops from the air, it's much biased towards land combat. I wish I had played more of the conquest map but I spent most of the time on the extremely CS like, plant the bomb or difuse, subway map just because I liked the guns so much.

You really do have to learn this game thou, it's put alot of people off initially but it is essentialy like CS, you have to master it and co-operate with the rest of the team.

Anyhows I'm sounding like one of the pr team but as I said, anything that can play an xbox title will play this, it's not that bad on the machines, it's just that if they stick an ultra setting on a game. everyone cries and runs out and buys a new machine which I have done before to increase frames from 30 to 60 and tbh it didn't alter the gaming experience one slight bit.


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## teahead (Oct 13, 2011)

Thought the thread was about this



Poxy thumb twitchers


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## TitanSound (Oct 13, 2011)

grit said:


> True, however one of my professors at the moment was a designer on the PS3 and has colleagues who were involved with the 360 architecture. He is adamant that neither device have really been pushed to their limits yet.



It seems they are now.



> "The console versions of Battlefield 3 will push Xbox 360 and PS3 to their technical limits, according to DICE - and the studio isn't scared by the prospect of Microsoft or Sony unveiling a new home system tomorrow.
> 
> The stunning trio of trailers for BF3 released by EA to date have wowed viewers, but many have questioned whether the gorgeous visuals can be replicated on non-PC hardware.
> 
> ...


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## Picadilly Commando (Oct 14, 2011)

I haven't had time to reply to this but I will


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## tommers (Oct 14, 2011)

oooh, hurry up.


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## Cloud (Oct 14, 2011)

I have withdrawals


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## Termite Man (Oct 15, 2011)

revol68 said:


> The 360 is a freak in how long it's lasted and it's annoying that MS seem to want to push shite like Kinect to fucking gimps who want to make a twat of themselves falling around a living room rather than getting a fucking new generation of console out that isn't a fucking disgraceful cut down PC from 2000.



The kinect is tapping into the market created by the wii so it makes sense for microsoft to push it now before they release a new gen console which will have financial barriers to the casual gamer. I don't see any reason why they can't keep making the 360 with kinect for the casual gamer but also have a next gen console at a higher price bracket for the serious gamer. Bringing out a next gen to replace the 360 would alienate a massive new part of the console market.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

+1


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## Cloud (Oct 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> The kinect is tapping into the market created by the wii so it makes sense for microsoft to push it now before they release a new gen console which will have financial barriers to the casual gamer. I don't see any reason why they can't keep making the 360 with kinect for the casual gamer but also have a next gen console at a higher price bracket for the serious gamer. Bringing out a next gen to replace the 360 would alienate a massive new part of the console market.



Who the hell uses a kinect?

lol jesus


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## Termite Man (Oct 16, 2011)

Cloud said:


> Who the hell uses a kinect?
> 
> lol jesus


http://mashable.com/2011/03/09/kinect-10-million/


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 16, 2011)

Cloud said:


> Who the hell uses a kinect?
> 
> lol jesus



Biggest problem are the games are shit or to energetic. The fighting one was quite fun, but after a couple of rounds doing high kicks I was knackered!


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## spawnofsatan (Oct 16, 2011)

I was Bass fishing on my xbox last night, can't do that on a PC  (At least not with a Rod controller)


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## cybershot (Oct 17, 2011)

I've got a Kinect, bought it purely on the basis of using it a friends party and it was a great party tool. Much better than the Wii. Sold the Wii, so that payed for the Kinect and additional games. Some launch titles were good but little else good has come out.

I've bought the Gunstringer has that has had good reviews, but yet to play.

Forza 4 head tracking intergration is meant to be good too, but I'll be playing that with wheels and peddles. If it still tracks your head using those too, then that will be cool! But Forza 4 is going to have to wait for a price drop me thinks before I consider buying it.


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## kained&able (Oct 17, 2011)

the kinnect just isnt useable for the average punter as they dont have a big enough living room. and quite frankly the development isnt there yet. I reckon the kinnect is just a beta for the full functionality that will be present on the next gen console.

star wars kinnect is the only thing that can save it for everything other then kids but thats just been pushed back due to the controls being fiddly and inaccurate.

dave


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## Crispy (Oct 17, 2011)

My kinect gathers dust. Sparrow bought it for me for christmas and keeps feeling guilty about getting me something I don't use  - The technology is incredible, but the software is almost all pap, and I have to rearrange the furniture to get enough space to play. Would love to use it as a 3d space recording device for my job. Would be great to move and scan it all round a room and build up a textured 3d model for reference back at the office. Is there software for that yet?


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## Chz (Oct 17, 2011)

> The iPhone 4 was in the labs when the first iPhone was launched.



No. It was not. There was a mock-up for the case and the specs were on the drawing board, but you've got a grave misunderstanding of the rate of advancement in CE if you think that the mock-up and specs were more than vaguely related to the final product.


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## c01642 (Oct 17, 2011)

You can get an adapter for the lense on the Kinect which decreases the space requirements.

http://www.gamingzap.com/nyko-zoom-xbox-360-kinect-lens-kit.html

The Xbox is still selling well so why would they retire it? Theres a new dashboard coming out, all the new TV stuff as well as intergration with Windows Phone 7, hopefully the new dashboard will take full advantage of Kinect.

http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-438000-xbox-360-units-sold-in-september/


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## kained&able (Oct 17, 2011)

yeah japan is the only market the xbox is struggling in.


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## kabbes (Oct 17, 2011)

I've lost the ability to connect my 360 to the internet via the wireless adaptor.  It used to do it, now it doesn't.  Nothing I try seems to fix it.

I should try connecting via a cable but the modem is in another room, so that seems like a right pain in the arse.  Oh well, who needs a networked console anyway?


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## 100% masahiko (Oct 17, 2011)

How much space do you need for Kinect?


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## c01642 (Oct 17, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I've lost the ability to connect my 360 to the internet via the wireless adaptor. It used to do it, now it doesn't. Nothing I try seems to fix it.
> 
> I should try connecting via a cable but the modem is in another room, so that seems like a right pain in the arse. Oh well, who needs a networked console anyway?



Get some home plug network adapters to run a network over your mains cabling.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-...VKP4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1318847525&sr=8-2


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## Crispy (Oct 17, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> How much space do you need for Kinect?


You have to have at least 2 meters clear space in front of the sensor, and then enough space to throw yourself around in


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## kained&able (Oct 17, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I've lost the ability to connect my 360 to the internet via the wireless adaptor. It used to do it, now it doesn't. Nothing I try seems to fix it.
> 
> I should try connecting via a cable but the modem is in another room, so that seems like a right pain in the arse. Oh well, who needs a networked console anyway?



yeah mine did that. the way i got round it was to plug direct into a switch that i had lieing about that could stay in the same room and then plug the wireless adapter into the switch to connect to my main router.

Hassle.

dave


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## 100% masahiko (Oct 17, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You have to have at least 2 meters clear space in front of the sensor, and then enough space to throw yourself around in



thanks...i was thinking of putting the xbox in the upstairs spare room - link up up to me PC/use as streaming device...and buying the kinect so that the kids can fuck off and leave me in peace when they visit.

unsure if i have enough space...


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## c01642 (Oct 17, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> thanks...i was thinking of putting the xbox in the upstairs spare room - link up up to me PC/use as streaming device...and buying the kinect so that the kids can fuck off and leave me in peace when they visit.
> 
> unsure if i have enough space...



Have you had a look on the specs for the nyko kit posted above, it reduces the space requirements.


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## kabbes (Oct 17, 2011)

c01642 said:


> Get some home plug network adapters to run a network over your mains cabling.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-...VKP4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1318847525&sr=8-2


Cheers, that's useful.

Course, now I have to decide whether being able to network the 360 is actually worth £37.  I've never been a big player of online games, so I don't miss that anyway.  It's just the downloadable content, really.


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## 100% masahiko (Oct 17, 2011)

c01642 said:


> You can get an adapter for the lense on the Kinect which decreases the space requirements.
> 
> http://www.gamingzap.com/nyko-zoom-xbox-360-kinect-lens-kit.html



This is great!


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 17, 2011)

What a very silly OP.

As long as the 360 is making money and as long as the vast majority of its users are happy with the graphics on offer, then why on earth should it be retired?

Graphics whores, of which I am one, can elect to spend stupid money on beefy PCs. Why should people who are happy with the 360 have to shell out £400+ for a new console and games when everyone is currently catered for, be they a 'family gamer', hardcore gamer or graphics whore?


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## Callum91 (Oct 17, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> What a very silly OP.
> 
> As long as the 360 is making money and as long as the vast majority of its users are happy with the graphics on offer, then why on earth should it be retired?
> 
> Graphics whores, of which I am one, can elect to spend stupid money on beefy PCs. Why should people who are happy with the 360 have to shell out £400+ for a new console and games when everyone is currently catered for, be they a 'family gamer', hardcore gamer or graphics whore?


In that case why would technology ever need to advance? People become happy with whatever tech is generally forced upon them, such as modern smartphones/TV's.


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## cybershot (Oct 17, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I've lost the ability to connect my 360 to the internet via the wireless adaptor. It used to do it, now it doesn't. Nothing I try seems to fix it.
> 
> I should try connecting via a cable but the modem is in another room, so that seems like a right pain in the arse. Oh well, who needs a networked console anyway?


Use powerline adapters. Not exactly cheap, but a better alternative to buying an Xbox wireless adapter (assuming it's an old phat model)

Edit: Should really have read the other posts first.


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 17, 2011)

Callum91 said:


> In that case why would technology ever need to advance? People become happy with whatever tech is generally forced upon them, such as modern smartphones/TV's.



It depends if there's sufficient advancement. Would a new Xbox significantly improve the average 360 user's experience? No. It'd be prettier, no doubt, but it wouldn't change anything significant. The jump from Xbox/PS2 brought graphics to an acceptably attractive place. A new console would offer diminishing returns, iyswim.

I have a high-end PC and it looks AMAZING but the gap between that and the 360 it isn't equal to the gulf between SD Xbox games and the current HD crop.

A new console will make more sense in 2014, which is when I understood that MS is planning to release the next iteration.


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## kabbes (Oct 17, 2011)

Here's an incredibly bizarre coincidence: after about a year of my Xbox being unable to connect to Live, it has suddenly managed to connect, the very day I mention it on urban!

I can only put it down to the fact that I just this minute completed Vanquish.  I then quit to Dashboard and bam!  Live connection.

As you can imagine, what it is now mostly doing is downloading updates.  A WHOLE lot of updates.


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## TitanSound (Oct 19, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Here's an incredibly bizarre coincidence: after about a year of my Xbox being unable to connect to Live, it has suddenly managed to connect, the very day I mention it on urban!
> 
> I can only put it down to the fact that I just this minute completed Vanquish. I then quit to Dashboard and bam! Live connection.
> 
> As you can imagine, what it is now mostly doing is downloading updates. A WHOLE lot of updates.



Buy Battlefield 3 next week and join us comrade. You know it makes sense.


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## kabbes (Oct 19, 2011)

No, I have just ordered a triple pack of Trials HD, Limbo and Splosion Man for £11.85 and also Red Dead Redemption for £15 off Amazon.  I will spend my next few months playing those instead.  Then it will almost be time for Mass Effect 3.


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## tommers (Oct 19, 2011)

Limbo is v good.


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## TitanSound (Oct 19, 2011)

kabbes said:


> No, I have just ordered a triple pack of Trials HD, Limbo and Splosion Man for £11.85 and also Red Dead Redemption for £15 off Amazon. I will spend my next few months playing those instead. Then it will almost be time for Mass Effect 3.



You're no fun


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## Picadilly Commando (Oct 19, 2011)

Isn't Mass EFfect 3 set in London, Kabbes? O_O


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## kabbes (Oct 19, 2011)

Oh noes!

Actually, I think only a bit of it is, at most.  And I enjoy games that allow me to shoot the places I have to commute through.


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## Picadilly Commando (Oct 19, 2011)

I am hoping that South London is nuked


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## tommers (Oct 19, 2011)

Picadilly Commando said:


> I am hoping that South London is nuked



How to win friends and influence people!


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## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 20, 2011)

gaming needs inovation not  better graphics

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/ludus-florentis


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## cybershot (Oct 22, 2011)

While *previous rumors* hinted at a 2012 reveal for the next Xbox, new reports indicate that it may be held off until 2013.*Develop* has heard from multiple industry sources, including chip manufacturers and middleware firms, that the console's reveal will come at E3 2013, with a late 2013 launch to follow. 

http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1210280p1.html


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Here's an incredibly bizarre coincidence: after about a year of my Xbox being unable to connect to Live, it has suddenly managed to connect, the very day I mention it on urban!
> 
> I can only put it down to the fact that I just this minute completed Vanquish.  I then quit to Dashboard and bam!  Live connection.
> 
> As you can imagine, what it is now mostly doing is downloading updates.  A WHOLE lot of updates.



Dammit man get B3! Btw do I have you on my buddy list?


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2011)

cybershot said:


> While *previous rumors* hinted at a 2012 reveal for the next Xbox, new reports indicate that it may be held off until 2013.*Develop* has heard from multiple industry sources, including chip manufacturers and middleware firms, that the console's reveal will come at E3 2013, with a late 2013 launch to follow.
> 
> http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1210280p1.html



I can live with that time frame, means Battlefield 4 will be a launch title.


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## kabbes (Oct 22, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Dammit man get B3! Btw do I have you on my buddy list?


Sorry --- the 360 connection was short-lived.  It downloaded the update and then promptly lost it again for good.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2011)

Dammit.


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## Blackandyellow (Nov 13, 2011)

Retire the Xbox 360? Seriously? You do know the graphics card of the 360 is superior to that of the PS3. Its just that the PS3 is able to load some of the graphics processes onto the motherboard, making the ps3's motherboard superior. Have you also noticed that some universal titles look better on the 360 rather than the ps3? why? because making games on 360 is cheaper and easier. On the PS3, relying on the graphics card alone will not get good results. However games like uncharted fully utilizes the motherboards power and hence the awesome graphics. Basically what I'm sayin is the xbox 360 and ps3 are still equals when it comes to gaming. Home entertainment would go to PS3, thats for sure. By the way, heard of Kinect? Its awesome.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2011)

Sales of Xbox are up 21% in the US in October too.


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## Picadilly Commando (Nov 13, 2011)

I hate it when people ask questions and answer it themselves, why? Well because it makes them look stupid. Why do you think they do it? Well I don't really know to be honest. Do you understand the point I am making? Or do I have to answer my own question with another question? Why? It's shit and hard to be taken seriously

Still doesn't change the fact that hardware has come on leaps and bounds since the 360 was first released and instead of milking the cash cow try for maximum return it would be better to start a fresh, then console players could have a game as good looking as BF3 with 64 player maps.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2011)

It's making shit loads of money, starting afresh wouldn't change that at this point.


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## Picadilly Commando (Nov 13, 2011)

No it wouldn't, I don't deny that but wouldn't you rather have todays tech inside a console?

Fuck graphics up until a point but you want a machine that can handle the huge multiplayer maps that are being developed. What's really needed though is truly innovative games.

I think am going through Stan's everything is shit stage


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 5, 2011)

Gameplay is kind, nice graphics are nice but in the heat of battle or in an intense race you're eyes don't register them. Sure some people like to willy wave about having some high powered rigs etc but at the end of the day I play games for the gameplay (Tetris on the original Gameboy being one of my top five favourite games).

The one big caveat to this is frame rate, but frankly consoles have got to the level where decent framerate isn't the issue it once was...the 360 is getting a new lease of life tomorrow which will extend it's life far beyond is normal for a console and tbh I'm actually quite happy that consoles have proven a bit of a break on the hyper consumerism of the constant upgrade cycle (ie buying a new console every 4 years or so). I take your point about huge multiplayer maps but even that doesn't need a big graphics card, it could easily be done in future by cloud computing (which is where I think games will go next tbh)...


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I take your point about huge multiplayer maps but even that doesn't need a big graphics card, it could easily be done in future by cloud computing (which is where I think games will go next tbh)...



Maybe next gen could be last gen? We're a long way of having net connections that play onlive in most parts of the country, but look back to what it was like when the 360 was launched!


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## TitanSound (Dec 6, 2011)

Anyone seen that film Gamer?


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Maybe next gen could be last gen? We're a long way of having net connections that play onlive in most parts of the country, but look back to what it was like when the 360 was launched!



Indeed. I expect in about ten years this format war nonsense will be considered quaint..!


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

TitanSound said:


> Anyone seen that film Gamer?



Nope. Who's in it?


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## Structaural (Dec 6, 2011)

TitanSound said:


> Anyone seen that film Gamer?



Unfortunately, yes.


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## TitanSound (Dec 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nope. Who's in it?



That Gerard Butler fella.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamer_(film)

Shit film, some of the gun fights are cool though. But more the idea of "Next Gen"


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sales of Xbox are up 21% in the US in October too.



They sold 960,00 in America alone during thanksgiving week. The best week they've ever had. Nearly a million in a week for a five year old console!


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## Yetman (Dec 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nope. Who's in it?



Dexter from Dexter is in it as well. Its actually pretty good for the first half hour, then get shit.


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## Structaural (Dec 6, 2011)

It's entertaining enough fluff, influenced by the Running Man I reckon.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

I see...so not a must see then?


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