# Second Avenue Subway is running



## paolo (Jan 4, 2017)

MTA video, cheesy in places, good in others.



I'm sure it's had it's challenges, and the stations are clearly about 100x better than the old ones, but blimey - London's Jubilee Line extension totally knocks this out of the park.

Still, for one bit of Manhattan, it'll be really welcome.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2017)

paolo said:


> MTA video, cheesy in places, good in others.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ooh, I'll have to check it out if I finally get back to NY. You're right: their subway feels like it's about a decade behind London's in technology.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2017)

I like the art work though. Really nice.


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## paolo (Jan 4, 2017)

editor said:


> Ooh, I'll have to check it out if I finally get back to NY. You're right: their subway feels like it's about a decade behind London's in technology.



Maybe I'm being unfair. The second avenue subway is not serving a major destination like Canary Wharf. That - as a tube station - is truly epic. But then again a few stops away is Bermondsey, no huge footfall, and it looks marvellous.


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 4, 2017)

Looks nice


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## davesgcr (Jan 4, 2017)

editor said:


> I like the art work though. Really nice.




Good sympathetic local and human connectins (note the remembering of the old 3d Ave El , which the 2nd Ave S was supposed to replace !) , bit of a tonic to the never-ending grey we get in all "new" London stations and refurbs. Compare this grey drabness to the Edwardian tilework on our older stations , - well you cannot really.


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## bi0boy (Jan 4, 2017)

hmm I think Baker Street and Westminter are both nice, can't say the same for any of the ny subway including this new stuff.


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## Crispy (Jan 4, 2017)

JLE cost a fortune though, and we will not see its like again any time soon. Crossrail is all very functional and easy-clean.


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## davesgcr (Jan 4, 2017)

Interesting - that the original subway in 1904 had extra money put in the construction for the rather fine mosaic tiling on the original stations , hand done by long gone Italian workers , nice to see that spirit has continued. (plus the original tilework and mosaics have been listed , or nicely refurbished)


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 5, 2017)

paolo said:


> MTA video, cheesy in places, good in others...



But oh my gosh, New Yorkers certainly seem full of themselves


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## paolo (Jan 6, 2017)

davesgcr said:


> Interesting - that the original subway in 1904 had extra money put in the construction for the rather fine mosaic tiling on the original stations , hand done by long gone Italian workers , nice to see that spirit has continued. (plus the original tilework and mosaics have been listed , or nicely refurbished)



Nice. Some original stuff... which station?


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## davesgcr (Jan 6, 2017)

paolo said:


> Nice. Some original stuff... which station?



Many of the original "contract one" stations - the old IRT or Independant Rapid Transit system - in today's money the no 1 and 6 lines (Manhattan to 137th Street) and the 2,3,4,5 lines from Brooklyn up the East Side. The other key lines - the BMT (Brooklyn- Manhattan) which was privately operated until 1940 also did very similar tileworks - the city built and funded IND (Independant Subway System) - also maintained a restricted but quite attractive station name tilework. 

There is a huge amount written and on line about this - check out NYCsubway.org for detailed station profiles - particular favourites of mine are Astor Place (tilework of beavers as the Astors made their first fortunes through fur trapping) , and Hudson Street (representation of the ferry) 

Agreed the older stations look bleak with the river studded girders , but the station tiles and so on are an absolute joy. My wife , who is no transit fan , was quite taken with them and spent a good while photographing them.


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## davesgcr (Jan 6, 2017)

S    

Some examples - City Hall is disused , but empty trains loop round from Brooklyn Bridge and if you ask nicely, the conductor(s) will let you ride round and see the splendour above - sort of NYV versionof the Kennington loop to let trains turn round to go back up north.Sorry for double posting Fulton Street !


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## teuchter (Jan 6, 2017)

Crispy said:


> JLE cost a fortune though, and we will not see its like again any time soon. Crossrail is all very functional and easy-clean.


Do we actually know how much more expensive? Particularly, how much putting some effort into the stations cost compared to what it would have been with the uber-blandness we've seen in subsequent projects?


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## petee (Jan 6, 2017)

i rode it first day, of course, and it will actually affect my travel patterns, quite an improvement in fact. the artwork at 86th is oppressive though.


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## davesgcr (Jan 6, 2017)

petee said:


> i rode it first day, of course, and it will actually affect my travel patterns, quite an improvement in fact. the artwork at 86th is oppressive though.



Interesting to see how it settles down - should make a real difference to the 4/5/6 lines which have mega crowding. Appreciate any feedback. What is your normal commute out of interest ?


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## petee (Jan 6, 2017)

davesgcr said:


> Interesting to see how it settles down - should make a real difference to the 4/5/6 lines which have mega crowding.


already has


> The benefits of the new subway line already appeared to have caused a spillover effect. On Tuesday morning, some Lexington Avenue trains and platforms appeared less crowded, in part because foot traffic seemed lighter after the holiday but also because there was now another option. At the 86th Street Station, a platform controller for the M.T.A. who did not give her name said that normally by 7:45 a.m., two or three rows of people would be waiting to board the 6 train. Today, there was only a single row.


http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/03/nyregion/second-avenue-subway-commute.html



> What is your normal commute out of interest ?


my commute is very short, i walk (lucky me). but i have need to go to long island often enough, and now i can get to/from penn station without having to change, on a cleaner and faster line, and it leaves me twice as close to my front door. i just don't want to be made to look at philip glass's 10 foot tall face every time i board


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## paolo (Jan 12, 2017)

Difficult to know whether we are blessed here in London or not. Fares are so different and so much more.

BUUT... I just looked at the L train "now and next" for 1st avenue (where I'm staying in a month).

The train interval is SEVEN minutes? WTF? All that expense of track and tunnels and... It's an auto line. Not sure if moving block (getting spoddy here) buuuut?

Compare and contrast: Victoria line peak. 105 SECONDS interval.


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## Crispy (Jan 12, 2017)

Unfair comparison, really. The 34tph Victoria line is one of the most frequent 2-track routes in the world, which crosses over the center of the city, while the L is a relatively sleepy mid-town service. The major NYC routes are 4-tracked in the downtown section, allowing 59tph combined local/express on the East Side Line for example.

NYC subway beats the tube on all major measures - route length, passengers carried, train size, opening hours. Cheaper too.


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## editor (Jan 12, 2017)

Crispy said:


> Unfair comparison, really. The 34tph Victoria line is one of the most frequent 2-track routes in the world, which crosses over the center of the city, while the L is a relatively sleepy mid-town service. The major NYC routes are 4-tracked in the downtown section, allowing 59tph combined local/express on the East Side Line for example.
> 
> NYC subway beats the tube on all major measures - route length, passengers carried, train size, opening hours. Cheaper too.


The technology has dragged way behind London though - it wasn't that long ago they were still using tokens for travel, and London was years ahead in letting passengers use contactless cards. They're not getting it until 2021!

NYC Subway Ride: Buh-Bye MetroCard, Hello Wireless Payment - But Not Until 2021


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## petee (Jan 12, 2017)

Crispy said:


> the L is a relatively sleepy mid-town service



it used to be (i remember riding it when it still had wicker seats) but isn't anymore: the areas of bklyn it serves have been massively developed and now it's a sardine can at times. (and it's downtown really, not midtown [/pedant].) but 7 minutes is no time at all. in farther queens you'll wait 20 minutes during off hours.



editor said:


> The technology has dragged way behind London though - it wasn't that long ago they were still using tokens for travel, and London was years ahead in letting passengers use contactless cards. They're not getting it until 2021!
> 
> NYC Subway Ride: Buh-Bye MetroCard, Hello Wireless Payment - But Not Until 2021



this has been a major topic amongst subway fans, who are very frustrated that we don't have the equivalent of the oyster card (tho' i don't have that opinion, for reasons).

three blogs if yiz are really interested:
Second Ave. Sagas - A New York City Subway Blog
vanshnookenraggen
Pedestrian Observations (about transit worldwide, not just NYC, but the writer is very thoughtful)


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## editor (Jan 12, 2017)

petee said:


> it used to be (i remember riding it when it still had wicker seats) but isn't anymore: the areas of bklyn it serves have been massively developed and now it's a sardine can at times. (and it's downtown really, not midtown [/pedant].) but 7 minutes is no time at all. in farther queens you'll wait 20 minutes during off hours.)


I used to ride it before Brooklyn turned into developer heaven, and it was always a nice quiet ride. The last few times I've been it's been jam packed any time of the day.


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## petee (Jan 12, 2017)

one i forgot
The Launch Box
great photos from the early days of the construction



editor said:


> I used to ride it before Brooklyn turned into developer heaven, and it was always a nice quiet ride. The last few times I've been it's been jam packed any time of the day.



also a flashpoint. the L is automated (as said above) and the MTA tossed out the idea of making other lines/all the lines automated, and the TWU went ballistic and stopped it for the foreseeable. it really is a bad idea.


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