# this is england '86



## killer b (Aug 9, 2010)

channel 4 sequel to the shane meadows film this is england... i reckon it'll work better as a tv series - looks like it might be more fun too.

http://www.channel4.com/microsites/T/thisisengland86/


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 9, 2010)

killer b said:


> channel 4 sequel to the shane meadows film this is england... i reckon it'll work better as a tv series - looks like it might be more fun too.
> 
> http://www.channel4.com/microsites/T/thisisengland86/


 
Yeah I'm well looking forward to this too


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## CNT36 (Aug 10, 2010)

Maybe it can be cut down to 3 minute snippets and put on youtube so that Facebook users who missed the point the first time don't have to sit through an entire episode.


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## killer b (Aug 10, 2010)

eh?


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 10, 2010)

killer b said:


> eh?


 
This is England has become a firm favourite of a lot of EDL/BNP types, who apparently failed to grasp the main narrative of the film.

The series will obviously have moved on from the NF stuff anyway.


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## Onket (Sep 2, 2010)

Set the box up to record the series last night- looking forward to it.

Also, Film 4 are screening a night of other Shane Meadows stuff, the same night I think.


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## WWWeed (Sep 2, 2010)

anyone know when its going to be broadcast?

I saw it advertised on a tube poster with no date


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## Onket (Sep 2, 2010)

7th September.


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## sim667 (Sep 2, 2010)

does anyone know what the song is they're using to advertise it? I recognise the bassline tune from lots of reggae and dub, and i assume they're using the original version on the ad?

e2a: Ive just looked it up, 'under mi sleng teng' - Wayne Smith


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## Apathy (Sep 3, 2010)

hope "This Is England '90" gets made...



> The next really big turning point in my life was 1990, with the Hacienda, the rave, The Stone Roses, ecstasy, the whole shambolic thing, I'd seen a lot of friends get into heroin off the back of that, so in a kind of way, Shaun's journey, if there is to be a second series, will continue in 1990"


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 3, 2010)

The adverts for it look very different from the 1986 I remember, though it was rather a long time ago now.


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## 100% masahiko (Sep 3, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The adverts for it look very different from the 1986 I remember, though it was rather a long time ago now.


 
Same.

"This is Not England '86"


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## London_Calling (Sep 4, 2010)

The first of the four hours got a good review on the, erm, Review Show last night. Relatively sensible people as well - cocks like Ekow Eshun and Paul Morley being absent.


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## la ressistance (Sep 4, 2010)

ian brown does a cameo init.........as a copper.


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## Herbsman. (Sep 5, 2010)

sim667 said:


> does anyone know what the song is they're using to advertise it? I recognise the bassline tune from lots of reggae and dub, and i assume they're using the original version on the ad?
> 
> e2a: Ive just looked it up, 'under mi sleng teng' - Wayne Smith


Yeah. I read your post and I thought "how can anyone not recognize the Sleng Teng riddim?"

Never thought that tune would ever be on mainstream TV. In fact I kinda hoped it wouldn't... it's 'ours'


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## Herbsman. (Sep 5, 2010)

And i bet he's getting very little, if any royalties from it


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 5, 2010)

killer b said:


> channel 4 sequel to the shane meadows film this is england... i reckon it'll work better as a tv series - looks like it might be more fun too.
> 
> http://www.channel4.com/microsites/T/thisisengland86/


 
I think it is an excellent film.
Turning it into a tv series,
Is the joke that Channel 4,
Has become.


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## Herbsman. (Sep 5, 2010)

sesquipedalian said:


> i think it is an excellent film.
> Turning it into a tv series,
> is the joke that channel 4,
> has become.


 
excellent.


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 5, 2010)

Herbsman. said:


> excellent.


 
Lol
@
U


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## Herbsman. (Sep 5, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> Lol
> @
> U


 
Whats wrong?


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 5, 2010)

Herbsman. said:


> Whats wrong?


 
It's not "whats",
It's "what's"


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## Herbsman. (Sep 5, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> It's not "whats",
> It's "what's"


 
lol

internet pendant


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## Prince Rhyus (Sep 5, 2010)

The Kia Ora advert is 1986


The single that it spawned feels like slow ska crossed with a massive joint
http://www.fordcortina.co.uk/caramba.htm


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## London_Calling (Sep 6, 2010)

I notice the original film is on tonight as the warm up act: 11:00pm


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## sim667 (Sep 6, 2010)

Herbsman. said:


> Yeah. I read your post and I thought "how can anyone not recognize the Sleng Teng riddim?"
> 
> Never thought that tune would ever be on mainstream TV. In fact I kinda hoped it wouldn't... it's 'ours'


 
It is an absolute tune, i just never though to look up the original before then....


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 6, 2010)

Herbsman. said:


> Yeah. I read your post and I thought "how can anyone not recognize the Sleng Teng riddim?"
> 
> Never thought that tune would ever be on mainstream TV. In fact I kinda hoped it wouldn't... it's 'ours'


 
Is it from 1986? 
Just doesn't sound right for the ad.


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## Herbsman. (Sep 6, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Is it from 1986?
> Just doesn't sound right for the ad.


 
Round about that time yeah. Maybe a couple of years before.

I don't think it fits the ad - The song Under Me Sleng Teng is a 'smoking ganja in Jamaica' song


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## killer b (Sep 6, 2010)

don't be daft, it was a massive anthem everywhere...


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 7, 2010)

killer b said:


> don't be daft, it was a massive anthem everywhere...


 
Not everywhere. 
Evidence
A. People think it's pretty obscure.
B. I have never heard it.


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## killer b (Sep 7, 2010)

It was a massive anthem for people who listen to reggae. It's one of the most influential reggae records ever made, and is by no stretch of the imagination obscure.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 7, 2010)

killer b said:


> It was a massive anthem for people who listen to reggae. It's one of the most influential reggae records ever made, and is by no stretch of the imagination obscure.


 
Ok so it wasn't a massive anthem everywhere then.


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## killer b (Sep 7, 2010)

whatever. i was just saying it's an appropriate song, as kids who were into reggae in '86 (like the people in this show!) would've been into it.


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## killer b (Sep 7, 2010)

anyway, it's tonight at 10.


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## ilovebush&blair (Sep 7, 2010)

killer b said:


> anyway, it's tonight at 10.


 
Cant wait watched dead mans shoes last night and i dont usually watch tv but gonna give this a watch.


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## Madusa (Sep 7, 2010)

Ah I saw loadsa ads for this on ch4 when I was in the uk... unfortunately, not there anymore can people who watch the first episode tell me if it's something that'll be worth d/lding at a later date? Thank you please.


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## Proper Tidy (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm well looking forward to it.


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## Part 2 (Sep 7, 2010)

I can't help feeling it won't live up to the hype

Everyone I know seems to be going on about it.


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## AKA pseudonym (Sep 7, 2010)

im well liking so far.....

first tv show in ages i have really been looking forward to...
shades of shameless but not a bad thing...


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## Serotonin (Sep 7, 2010)

Good so far. Liking the shell suited bully.


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## krtek a houby (Sep 7, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ok so it wasn't a massive anthem everywhere then.


 
Never heard it, round Dublin way but will remember it from now on...


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## N_igma (Sep 7, 2010)

I never thought they would have given the paedo from Rab C Nesbit a second chance at acting but there ya go.


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## krtek a houby (Sep 7, 2010)

N_igma said:


> I never thought they would have given the paedo from Rab C Nesbit a second chance at acting but there ya go.


 
Thought the alleged paedo from Rab C Nesbitt is no longer with us???


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## AKA pseudonym (Sep 7, 2010)

N_igma said:


> I never thought they would have given the paedo from Rab C Nesbit a second chance at acting but there ya go.


 


eta: @ Jer.. aye he's dead...


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 7, 2010)

Tommy Turgoose. Grimsby boy.


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## CJohn (Sep 7, 2010)

That was fucking genius - hope the rest of the series holds up.


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## Clint Iguana (Sep 7, 2010)

me likes new series ... how many episodes planned?


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## CJohn (Sep 7, 2010)

Think its 4.


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## badlands (Sep 7, 2010)

Johnny Harris is God


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## Part 2 (Sep 7, 2010)

Initial thoughts....

The Scally on the fizzy was great (a crew of fizzy riders though, some DTs and ARs in the mix more likely)

I'm tired of the Meadows musical interludes.

Milky is going bald and the camera avoided face shots.


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## cliche guevara (Sep 7, 2010)

I thought it was excellent. I don't really watch dramas on telly, but I thoroughly enjoyed that and can't wait til next week.


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## badlands (Sep 7, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> I'm tired of the Meadows musical interludes.
> 
> Milky is going bald and the camera avoided face shots.



What?

Are you mad?


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## Herbsman. (Sep 8, 2010)

that was shit


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## badlands (Sep 8, 2010)

Herbsman. said:


> that was shit


 
why?


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## Notorious J.I.M (Sep 8, 2010)

Herbsman. said:


> that was shit


 
I disagree, the constant advert breaks were shit but it's shaping up to be be compelling viewing for the next month. Nice to see Paddy Considine making an appearance and the young actors have really grown up. I can't wait for next week now.


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## disappearer (Sep 8, 2010)

Didn't think it was up to much folks.  Fashion great as ever, however, hopefully it'll open up over the 4 episodes and improve.


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## OneStrike (Sep 8, 2010)

Tonight was slow, a way of introducing the characters, i enjoyed it though and i still hold fairly high hopes for the series.  Tbh i feared it might have been awful, which imo it really wasn't.  

Do you think Meadows had the opening scene recorded back when filming This is England with future filming in mind or was it a useful cut scene from back then?


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## Part 2 (Sep 8, 2010)

badlands said:


> What?
> 
> Are you mad?


 
About milky's hair, no he's definitely going bald.

About the musical interludes, no they're becoming a lazy way of filling time. There were 3 or 4 over a one hour film as in Somerstown/Le Donk. In a full length film they don't interrupt things so much but in an hour they're as unwelcome as the adverts for me. It works out more like 40 minutes without the ads and music.

I did like the show on the whole though and from the trailers looks like it will develop into a decent story.


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## cliche guevara (Sep 8, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> About the musical interludes, no they're becoming a lazy way of filling time. There were 3 or 4 over a one hour film as in Somerstown/Le Donk. In a full length film they don't interrupt things so much but in an hour they're as unwelcome as the adverts for me. It works out more like 40 minutes without the ads and music.


 
They aren't just 'musical interludes' though, are they? They are often sequences which add to the plot, character development or general atmosphere. If you took them out the show would be weaker for it.


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## killer b (Sep 8, 2010)

props to thomas turgoose btw - he's a fine actor for one so young.


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## Sigmund Fraud (Sep 8, 2010)

The unity and friendship of the gang is implausible, some of the acting is decidedly iffy, if you didn't see TIE you might be wondering WTF is going on, the pace was ponderous and as already mentioned theres no way the casuals would be on Fizzies (more like RDs, ARs and TSs).  Can't help thinking Shane Meadows is revising and romanticising his teenage years to the detriment of his abilities as a film maker.,


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## smokedout (Sep 8, 2010)

seen better episodes of eastenders tbh


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## The Rural Juror (Sep 8, 2010)

I thought it was very good, really looking forward to the next 3. By the way, does anyone know if the guy in the Cramps tshirt is Lauren Socha (from Misfits) brother? They have the same surname and the same face


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## strung out (Sep 8, 2010)

it was a bit like skins


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## hammerntongues (Sep 8, 2010)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> The unity and friendship of the gang is implausible, some of the acting is decidedly iffy, if you didn't see TIE you might be wondering WTF is going on, the pace was ponderous and as already mentioned theres no way the casuals would be on Fizzies (more like RDs, ARs and TSs).  Can't help thinking Shane Meadows is revising and romanticising his teenage years to the detriment of his abilities as a film maker.,



I don`t think Fizzies were even around in by mid the eighties , may have been the odd one or two still running around but by then they would have been the eqivilent of running a Puch 2 gear at the time of Fizzies , decidely uncool ?  ( Garelli Tiger Cub , now there`s a moped )

I enjoyed it a lot and can see it developing into a great show , I think the reality of this gang is that they don`t neccessarily fit into one " tribe " they are misfits that dont quite fit anywhere else anymore , I can see that as plausible , particularly outside they major cities.


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## Ted Striker (Sep 8, 2010)

killer b said:


> It was a massive anthem for people who listen to reggae. It's one of the most influential reggae records ever made, and is by no stretch of the imagination obscure.


 
Best Sleng Teng moment


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## butchersapron (Sep 8, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Not everywhere.
> Evidence
> A. People think it's pretty obscure.
> B. I have never heard it.


 
A. You're not people
B. You don't like _Music_. 
C. Fool


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## WWWeed (Sep 8, 2010)

I liked it. But I can see people not getting it if they haven't seen the film fully........


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## Ax^ (Sep 8, 2010)

strung out said:


> it was a bit like skins


 
having Cook being part of the cast might make it feel that way


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## Weller (Sep 8, 2010)

hammerntongues said:


> I don`t think Fizzies were even around in by mid the eighties , may have been the odd one or two still running around but by then they would have been the eqivilent of running a Puch 2 gear at the time of Fizzies , decidely uncool ?  ( Garelli Tiger Cub , now there`s a moped )


 


Yeah I thought that on seeing the fsie in the trailer and there really couldnt have been many around by then , everyone was on scooters by then and even they would have been dying out again by 86 surely the moped craze sort of fizzled out after the restrictions.
Garelli Tiger Cub though ? surely you mean the Tiger Cross , great moped still a few about at sixteener special forums riden by aging fans nowadays , anyone that remembers all the sports moped craze should spend an hour in the gallery here , some good rare stuff worth a bomb these days though but quite a cult following going on.

http://www.sixteener-special.co.uk/


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## andy2002 (Sep 8, 2010)

Ax^ said:


> having Cook being part of the cast might make it feel that way


 
Jack O'Connell's in it? I didn't notice him in that first episode - is he in later ones?


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## scifisam (Sep 8, 2010)

It's not about England 86, from the first half. It looks contemporary, apart from the bus decor. 

Does it change?


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## scifisam (Sep 8, 2010)

OK. Now it's a dull soap opera called 'This is England 86' which has an a few of the trappings of 86 and loads of the trappings of c.77 (plus an Oasis haircut in the lead male).

What's there to like about it? I wouldn't have watched it all the way through if it weren't for people recommending it. As it is, it's like watching someone's dream where they've selectively mashed the 70s and early 90s bits together, along with two ordinary film tropes (bullied kid, jilted bride) and set it to a soundtrack that evokes 1986 about as much as Elvis evokes 2010, plus a few of the last Eastenders scripts, except that Eastenders was never that boring, even in 1986. 

It's like 1986 written by a kid in 2026.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> A. You're not people
> B. You don't like _Music_.
> C. Fool


 
D. Cock off. 

On a more serious note though. I really didn't think the TV show felt quite right. I grew up in a pretty crummy nowhere area in the 80s and nothing about this evoked any feelings or even really the look of the time.  I understand that different people listen to different types of music and dress and do different things but there was pretty much nothing about this that hung it's hat on my mid 80s peg. 
It was more like watching another typical channel 4 show like shameless or skins and frankly I expected (hoped for?) more. I quite liked the film.


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## cliche guevara (Sep 8, 2010)

*idioteque posting*

I liked it 

Some people needs to stop being so overcritical imo.


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## smokedout (Sep 8, 2010)

but it was rubbish


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## scifisam (Sep 8, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> I liked it



Why?


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## idioteque (Sep 8, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Why?


 
Why not?


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## scifisam (Sep 8, 2010)

idioteque said:


> Why not?


 
Well, I added a few other bits but then just decided to ask why someone liked a TV show that I didn't.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 8, 2010)

smokedout said:


> but it was rubbish


 
Stop being so over critical. Enjoy the crap you are dealt.


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 8, 2010)

I just watched it on C4's website. Never saw the original film so came into it "cold" if you like. I quite enjoyed it - and the "quite" isn't meant to be damning it with faint praise. The cast looked good - almost too good, in fact - and it was amusing enough. But I just didn't feel it had enough sharply-observed-enough nuances to drag the characters into 3D. I will watch it again, though. 

Oh, and I'm hopelessly in love with Lol. She's _exactly_ the kind of girl I used to get major, unhappy, unrequited crushes on in the late 80s & early 90s.


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## mozzy (Sep 8, 2010)

What a load of crap. The acting was shite and it was sooo boring and over hyped. Very disapointing.


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## Part 2 (Sep 8, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Oh, and I'm hopelessly in love with Lol. She's _exactly_ the kind of girl I used to get major, unhappy, unrequited crushes on in the late 80s & early 90s.



The checked shirt and cardigan look is

Re: The fizzys. There were a few knocking about when I left school in 86, (coincidentally ridden by ginger kids from the estate). Thinking about it I'm not sure it needs to be so accurate and it's all a mish mash of cultural stuff and nostalgia. It's never going to be right for everyone so it's forgiveable to play with things like this IMO.

As for the interludes, I'll watch it again to see if they could be left out. I don't see how a lingering close up of Lol's nose adds much to the plot though.


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## sim667 (Sep 8, 2010)

I really liked it.......

too many ad breaks though


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 8, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> As for the interludes, I'll watch it again to see if they could be left out. I don't see how a lingering close up of Lol's nose adds much to the plot though.



That's the _last_ thing I'd cut.


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## krtek a houby (Sep 8, 2010)

I've decided I'm going to like it


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## The Rural Juror (Sep 8, 2010)

Notorious J.I.M said:


> Nice to see Paddy Considine making an appearance.



he didn't. Or at least I don't think so...


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## killer b (Sep 8, 2010)

The Rural Juror said:


> he didn't. Or at least I don't think so...


 
lol's nonce dad, i think? i didn't recognise him at the time (due to the beard), but i think that's him...


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## paulhackett (Sep 8, 2010)

killer b said:


> lol's nonce dad, i think? i didn't recognise him at the time (due to the beard), but i think that's him...



That's Johnny Harris - pc is yet to show in the series. Series will be different as there are female leads (albeit dressed masculinely and with mens names). Will be interesting to see how it pans out after the getting to know the characters again episode


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## The Rural Juror (Sep 8, 2010)

killer b said:


> lol's nonce dad, i think? i didn't recognise him at the time (due to the beard), but i think that's him...


 
definitely not Considine.


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## Notorious J.I.M (Sep 8, 2010)

paulhackett66 said:


> That's Johnny Harris - pc is yet to show in the series.


  Oops could of sworn it was him with the beard playing Lol's dad but it obviously isn't.


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## Idaho (Sep 8, 2010)

My verdict - a bit vacuous and dull.

Also the style of it is so modern. As is the language. "End of.." "Shut the fuck up". People didn't say that in the 80s.


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## Grandma Death (Sep 8, 2010)

I enjoyed it. Problem is expectation was always gonna be high and it will never be as good as This Is England but people should give it a chance...it looks like it may well be a slow burner and this episode was all about reintroducing us to the characters again.


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## ilovebush&blair (Sep 9, 2010)

i didnt like it


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## The Rural Juror (Sep 9, 2010)

Idaho said:


> My verdict - a bit vacuous and dull.
> 
> Also the style of it is so modern. As is the language. "End of.." "Shut the fuck up". People didn't say that in the 80s.


 
I'm fairly sure I told people to shut the fuck up in the 80s.


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## Redeyes (Sep 9, 2010)

Looking forward to seeing Ian Brown as a copper in a future episode!


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## Idaho (Sep 9, 2010)

The Rural Juror said:


> I'm fairly sure I told people to shut the fuck up in the 80s.


 
"Fucking shup up" - almost certainly. But "Shut the-fuck-up" is definitely more modern. Especially in this country.


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## chieftain (Sep 9, 2010)

"Skill" and "Watcha" were widely used, as was "Joey" and "Deacon"


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## g force (Sep 9, 2010)

I'll give it a chance....we're only a 1/4 of the way but it did seem ponderous compared to the film. Never liked the Woody character really so the focus on him didn't help.

And yeah fuckign shut up was fine but shut the fuck up is more modern.


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 9, 2010)

Some Swedish bloke's put the film on YouTube (in English but with Swedish subbies) so I've seen it now. Much better than the series, although it's one of those films that make you wonder what happened to the characters next, so I can see the point of the series, and have watched it again now. 

It's funny; it's making me nostalgic - not for 82 or 86 which was fucking rubbish for the most part, but for my gang of mates (89 - 92) and how good it feels to belong to something nobody else understands, to walk a different world to the normal people. I don't really miss it but I'm glad I lived it.


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## The Rural Juror (Sep 9, 2010)

Idaho said:


> "Fucking shup up" - almost certainly. But "Shut the-fuck-up" is definitely more modern. Especially in this country.


 
we'll have to agree to disagree, but how you know what i was saying 25 years ago is a little bit of a mystery to me


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 9, 2010)

Pretty sure I'd have been saying "shut the fuck up". The phrase is in Stephen King novels, I'm sure of it.


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## London_Calling (Sep 9, 2010)

I tend to look at it as a project I suppose. Meadows is still young, he made a decent film and then C4 threw money at him to make another 3 1/2 hours of it. Then he's supposed to know how to structure, pace and generally make enjoyable what's effectively a double sequel, having come from mostly shorts.

We're a quarter of the way through, I'm still  looking forward to seeing how he deals the opportunity.


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## Idaho (Sep 9, 2010)

The film had a few gritty edges. Life in 1980s Britain, especially in the north, was very edgy and gritty. This is like Skins but in 80s fancy dress.

As for language, I can recall the language used in the south of england at that time was not like this. In the north it was even more colloquial.


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## D'wards (Sep 9, 2010)

One called another a Bellend - didnt think that came into common speech until the 90's


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## BlackArab (Sep 9, 2010)

hammerntongues said:


> I don`t think Fizzies were even around in by mid the eighties , may have been the odd one or two still running around but by then they would have been the eqivilent of running a Puch 2 gear at the time of Fizzies , decidely uncool ?  ( Garelli Tiger Cub , now there`s a moped )
> 
> I enjoyed it a lot and can see it developing into a great show , I think the reality of this gang is that they don`t neccessarily fit into one " tribe " they are misfits that dont quite fit anywhere else anymore , I can see that as plausible , particularly outside they major cities.



Fizzies were still around, I know because I bought mine in 85! Eveb though DT looked better, people were still going for Fizzies as they were unrestricted. Yep the flash boys might have burned me off at traffic lights but I'd soon catch up and leave them for dust. I was getting 52/53 tops out of mine. DT's! fucking hairdryers on wheels mate.


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## BlackArab (Sep 9, 2010)

D'wards said:


> One called another a Bellend - didnt think that came into common speech until the 90's



Have to say I remember hearing this one at the time


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## Geri (Sep 9, 2010)

chieftain said:


> "Skill" and "Watcha" were widely used, as was "Joey" and "Deacon"


 
70s.


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 9, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> Have to say I remember hearing this one at the time



Me too.  I heard it from certain "amusing" chaps at school (which I left in 1987).


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## BlackArab (Sep 9, 2010)

Well must say, I was thinking it was a let down for the first 20 mins or so, too much slapstick but then it came into itseld during the wedding ceremony. I was probably being too harsh as I watched the film again earlier that evening to refresh myself about the characters. 

Great scene also with Milkie and Lol when she talks about choosing the wrong flavour crisps.

Vicky McClure just gets better with age, doesn't she?


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 9, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> Vicky McClure just gets better with age, doesn't she?



She's lovely, especially in a long coat & Dockers.


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## Part 2 (Sep 9, 2010)

Geri said:


> 70s.


 
"Joey!" lived on well past his death in the early 80's though


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## killer b (Sep 9, 2010)

yeah, i went to primary school in the mid 80s, and can assure you it was well used as an insult then.


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## discokermit (Sep 9, 2010)

i had my photo took next to a street sign for 'bell end' in '86/'87.

as for the series, where's the fucking scooters? i was promised scooters.


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## WouldBe (Sep 10, 2010)

D'wards said:


> One called another a Bellend - didnt think that came into common speech until the 90's


 
We were using that at school in the 70's


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## tommers (Sep 10, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> "Joey!" lived on well past his death in the early 80's though



Joey was used after he was on Blue peter.

Which was 1981.


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## albionism (Sep 10, 2010)

I certainly said, or at any rate, heard a lot of  "End of" and "Shut the fuck up" in 1986.

Can't comment on the series, as i cannot view it where i am


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## D'wards (Sep 10, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> She's lovely, especially in a long coat & Dockers.


 
I thought her sister was superhot - carried off the shaved sides well.

I'm no oil painting myself, but isn't Smell the oddest looking girl?


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## D'wards (Sep 10, 2010)

Ah, i stand corrected on the bellend


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 10, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> We're a quarter of the way through, I'm still  looking forward to seeing how he deals the opportunity.


 
Me too.

Can't say I'm fussed about the fashion and dialogue innaccuracies too much.

I liked the characters in the original film. I still like the characters and I'm happy to follow them.....even if it doesn't lead anywhere especially great.

Many of Meadows works start light and comedic and venture somewhere darker towards the end.

The trailers suggest this to be the case here too.

The only element I felt was poorly scripted was the reasons why no one had been in contact with Shaun for 3 years after the original story ended.

I find it hard to imagine that he he wouldn't have come across them or vica versa in all that time considering his initial meeting with them in the film was by chance on the estate.


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## g force (Sep 10, 2010)

Well that's true but as said we're 1/4 of the way through so lets judge that one at the very end. Maybe they splintered off after all Shaun was with Combo and after what happened to Milky maybe they closed ranks making it hard for Shaun to go see them and apologise - he was a young kid after all. That's the sense I got from the opening section that was obv done at the time of the first film.

I re-watched it and it was better but certain bits like the Wheelchair race seemed like padding


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 10, 2010)

g force said:


> I re-watched it and it was better but certain bits like the Wheelchair race seemed like padding


 
Again, he always has larking about in his films.

24/7 had loads of scenes of blokes just pissing about.


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## sim667 (Sep 10, 2010)

D'wards said:


> I'm no oil painting myself, but isn't Smell the oddest looking girl?


 
I thought that too, but didnt want to be rude......


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 10, 2010)

D'wards said:


> I thought her sister was superhot - carried off the shaved sides well.
> 
> I'm no oil painting myself, but isn't Smell the oddest looking girl?



I'm sure she has a perfectly spherical head. And yes on the sister. Yes yes.


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## editor (Sep 10, 2010)

I loved it!


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## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 10, 2010)

disappointed.


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## mr steev (Sep 10, 2010)

scifisam said:


> OK. Now it's a dull soap opera called 'This is England 86' which has an a few of the trappings of 86 and loads of the trappings of c.77 (*plus an Oasis haircut in the lead male*).


 






Paul Weller circa 1986. I'd say the haircut is very fitting.
Wearing school ties the thin end round was also fitting for the time, but I didn't really feel that much nostalgia from the rest of the program. I'll give it time though


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 10, 2010)

Loads of mods circa 86 looked like Woody. Not many girls hanging out with 'em looked like Lol though.

That skin/mod/suedehead crossover didn't really extend to any of those groups hanging out together.

Most skins I knew in 86 were borderline right wing (or just right wing!). The mods were fucking dim, good looking and shagged loads of girls and the suedes were all pseudo-intellectuals concerned with cardigans and couplets.

Somewhere between the lot were the casuals who took the most simplistic elements of mod fashion and skin thuggery to end up with some shocking colour clashes and poor haircuts.

I hated the 80s.


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 10, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Loads of mods circa 86 looked like Woody. Not many girls hanging out with 'em looked like Lol though.
> 
> That skin/mod/suedehead crossover didn't really extend to any of those groups hanging out together.
> 
> ...



It was much the same when I started going out in the late 80s. Small town with only 2 boozers where alternative peeps would go, so everyone knew everyone else. Maybe about 10 or 12 nasty skinheads, 2 or 3 trojan skins, a few mods, loads of Smiths/general indie fans, loads of goths/Cure fans, the odd punk, a few nuggets (metallers), and a small tribe of 15 or so rockabillies/psychobillies. Everyone else was a casual, or as we called them, dressers. I lived in a shared house - 1 hippy, 1 nugget, 1 goth, and 3 punks (of which I was one). Loads of mixing of subcultures, except for the skinheads. Eventually the "top boy" of the skins had had enough of their racist shit and started hanging around with us lot. 

I enjoyed the freedom of going out and being a part of things, but nostalgia's one hell of an editor - a lot of the time I was bored, penniless and miserable.


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## Geri (Sep 12, 2010)

Apparently the girl who plays Smell was born with a cleft palate. She looks fine here:


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## weepiper (Sep 12, 2010)

I finally got round to watching this on 4OD last night. Quite liked it, I'll certainly watch the next one. I haven't seen the film but I'll probably see that too now. I was only 9 in 1986 so I can't comment on the fashions etc not being authentic seeing as I was mostly in a boiler suit and wellies outside of school


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## Part 2 (Sep 12, 2010)

I just watched it again on 4od.

I was to harsh with first impressions, think I went looking for negatives in hindsight. 

Picked up a lot more stuff about the relationships etc second time round. Everyone will have criticisms of accuracy etc according to their own experiences but there were loads of things I identified with. 

Noticed Shaun was doing his History CSE. In mine I wrote an essay about the sisters of mercy, my teacher came looking for me in the break afterwards and gave me a gobfull. My response was about as witty as Shaun's.


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## veracity (Sep 12, 2010)

Watched this the other night on 4od and got to say, was quite disappointed. It seemed quite one-dimensional, and the lack of period detail was a bit off putting. For example the wheelchair race in the hospital - blatantly a modern hospital and absolutely no effort made to make it look authentic?! Still, I loved the film, will give this another chance.


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## Ceej (Sep 12, 2010)

Not as strong as I'd hoped, but with any luck the next three will be better....the film was great, so I'm perservering. 
I used to know a load of skins, the North London Sharps (SkinHeads Against Racist Practices or Prejudice or something) who used to march with us aginst the NF/BNP back in the day.


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## killer b (Sep 12, 2010)

skinheads against racist punk iirc.


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## D'wards (Sep 12, 2010)

Geri said:


> Apparently the girl who plays Smell was born with a cleft palate. She looks fine here:


 
More than fine - she looks lovely!

The haircut and makeup most do nothing for her


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## weepiper (Sep 12, 2010)

SHARP = SkinHeads Against Racial Prejudice.


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## killer b (Sep 12, 2010)

saw a few wearing this patch at blackpool


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## killer b (Sep 14, 2010)

oh dear.

that was a bit rubbish.


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## gabi (Sep 14, 2010)

That was fucking excellent. The movie was shit. The first part of this series was shit. But yeh, finally lived up to the hype.


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## killer b (Sep 14, 2010)

really? the dialogue was dull, the acting was wooden, the plot was predictable, and the _skins_ party was embarrassing.


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## discokermit (Sep 14, 2010)

there was a little bit of welding though, which is always a good thing.


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## mozzy (Sep 14, 2010)

gabi said:


> That was fucking excellent. The movie was shit. The first part of this series was shit. But yeh, finally lived up to the hype.


 
Completely agree. I thought last weeks episode was boring but now realise it was just an introduction to get to know the characters. Where as this week, i found it much funnier and livelier and enjoyed watching the plot unfold.


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## killer b (Sep 14, 2010)

some of the clothes were nice.


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## gabi (Sep 14, 2010)

It was streets ahead of the rubbish in the movie, which is a low bar i guess. But yeh. Enjoyed it. Trainspotting it's not, but this is meadows/c4 here.

(Theres a bit of 4 weddings about it which isn't necessarily a bad thing)

altho actually 4 weddings is probably slightly more realistic.


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## sim667 (Sep 14, 2010)

Geri said:


> Apparently the girl who plays Smell was born with a cleft palate. She looks fine here:


 
jesus christ, she looks so different!!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 14, 2010)

sim667 said:


> jesus christ, she looks so different!!


 
She's totally freaky looking in the programme.  

Well not totally freak, I think it's the make-up and her voice makes her look much worse


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## ymu (Sep 15, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Me too.
> 
> Can't say I'm fussed about the fashion and dialogue innaccuracies too much.
> 
> ...


Meadows always has some dodgy slapstick stuff - usually poking fun at thugs/bullies (and rarely at women). There was a lot less of this in This is England than in his other films, but he uses it in TIE '86 quite a lot.

I don't see the resemblance to a Skins party at all, but then I don't watch Skins - I thought that was about a bunch of teenagers partying whilst the parents were away? I do remember people in the '80s trying to force parties upon those with jacuzzis though. 

He does deal with why Shaun hasn't been part of their gang for years.

a) He's been a schoolkid, doing what his mum wanted (doing his GCSEs to make his dad proud). He's several years younger than the rest of the characters, and wouldn't ordinarily have been hanging out with them at all.

b) Smell asked him why he stopped hanging out with them, and he said he felt responsible for what happened with Combo and Milk.


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## killer b (Sep 15, 2010)

ymu said:


> I don't see the resemblance to a Skins party at all


really?





> but then I don't watch Skins


that'd be why then.


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## ymu (Sep 15, 2010)

Is a Skins party not a party where teenagers pile into someone's house while their parents are away?


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## killer b (Sep 15, 2010)

i've no idea. i meant 'like a party out of skins'.


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## ymu (Sep 15, 2010)

killer b said:


> i've no idea. i meant 'like a party out of skins'.


 
So you don't know what a skins party is either?


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## killer b (Sep 15, 2010)

i've no idea if it means what you said. _I_ meant 'like a party out of skins'. i didn't realise it had come to mean anything else (if indeed it has).


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## ymu (Sep 15, 2010)

Skins parties are very much associated with parents being away. Or at least, whenever they come up in the news, this seems to be the case.


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## strung out (Sep 15, 2010)

skins parties are called skins parties because the term originates from the show skins. funnily enough.


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 15, 2010)

They were just called "parties" when I was the right age to be not invited to them. One of our lot was invited to a party by some students a couple of yours younger than us who thought there'd be kudos in having one of the older, punkier elements of the alternative set at their party. About 8 of us steamed into this house and went through it like locusts. We left after half an hour with all the booze, having emptied the cupboards and freezer too, and with several items of electrical goods (which I made people take back in the morning). Nobody's head or eyebrows got shaved, though. That only happened when people fell asleep at ours.

Last night's TIE '86 really resonated with me, for reasons I don't want to go into, but it was desperately sad. Maybe laying it on a bit thick, but there you go. I'm enjoying it more and more and will probably watch everything again today.


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## London_Calling (Sep 15, 2010)

Well, Meadows has gone for a long section of relationship power shifts, internal struggles and a love triangle. Hey ho. Felt better, like there might be proper depth - maybe reading too much metaphor into the marital flat and  . .  stuff. 

Optimistic though, looking forward to the rest.


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## madzone (Sep 15, 2010)

Is it repeated?

Is it violent?


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## ymu (Sep 15, 2010)

The first one was repeated, on Monday I think.

It's not violent, and if it gets violent it won't be massively graphic or gratuitous. It's a bit like Mike Leigh crossed with Alan Bleasdale.


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## dlx1 (Sep 15, 2010)

only on for one hour but feels like two.


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## boing! (Sep 15, 2010)

I’ve enjoyed it so far. The period detail (or lack of it) doesn’t really bother me. I was so young in the 80s the only thing that feels familiar is the colour of the bus seats. It still has Meadows’ style all over it though, in the cinematography, the unforced conversations between the characters, and the plot development seems very typical. Most of his films have people pissing about for the first two thirds then it gets considerably darker towards the end. I can imagine this will be the case here. It’s a formula, but it seems to work well.


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## Dovydaitis (Sep 15, 2010)

missed this last night, will od it it tonight


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## no-no (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm loving this so far but last nights episode made me sad


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## Rock Bottom (Sep 16, 2010)

boing! said:


> I’ve enjoyed it so far. The period detail (or lack of it) doesn’t really bother me. I was so young in the 80s the only thing that feels familiar is the colour of the bus seats. It still has Meadows’ style all over it though, in the cinematography, the unforced conversations between the characters, and the plot development seems very typical. Most of his films have people pissing about for the first two thirds then it gets considerably darker towards the end. I can imagine this will be the case here. It’s a formula, but it seems to work well.


 
Totally agree.

Very much like Room for Romeo Brass, the first section was rather trivial. It had a rather incestuous feel to it, as if the director and cast were determined to project their own in-joke to the wider audience.

The second episode felt much more like the director was in control, demanding emotional performances from a strong cast.

Despite the attention to the period detail, the premise is not vital. Essentially, it is a story about perseverence among young working class Brits. I think that Shane Meadows does this better than anyone in the U.K. at the moment


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## trevhagl (Sep 18, 2010)

first episode pretty uneventful, second one far better, more direction, more scope for the storylines evolving


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## weepiper (Sep 21, 2010)

fucking hell that was a bit grim.


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## Part 2 (Sep 21, 2010)

Fucking hell. I think that was about as brutal as anything I've ever seen on telly.


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## killer b (Sep 21, 2010)

That was a bunch of depressing shit. Is there really any need?


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## discokermit (Sep 21, 2010)

if it wasn't for the fight and the lambretta it would have been unwatchable. well grim.


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## D'wards (Sep 21, 2010)

Was the first one directed by Shaun Meadows it showed too -  was brilliant


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## sim667 (Sep 21, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> She's totally freaky looking in the programme.
> 
> Well not totally freak, I think it's the make-up and her voice makes her look much worse



I think she's really rather pretty without the make up and shit on



ymu said:


> So you don't know what a skins party is either?


 
Are you referring to a skins party as in the contemporary parties frequented by kids in flat peaked caps, which are advertised on facebook and everything gets broken.

Or skins as in the culture of the 80s where they were advertised by word of mouth, frequented by skinheads and everything was destoryed by being smashed by dr martens.


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## killer b (Sep 21, 2010)

Read the thread ffs


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## radio_atomica (Sep 21, 2010)

that was actually too grim, i'm not sure what purpose the rape scene served.


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## weepiper (Sep 21, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> that was actually too grim, i'm not sure what purpose the rape scene served.


 
it serves to let someone else in on Lol not having made it up. I don't know if it really needed that AND the scene where her dad comes and threatens her at her flat though.


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## D'wards (Sep 21, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> that was actually too grim, i'm not sure what purpose the rape scene served.


 
Showed what an evil cunt the dad is


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## Fedayn (Sep 21, 2010)

D'wards said:


> Showed what an evil cunt the dad is


 
Exactly


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## OneStrike (Sep 21, 2010)

I enjoyed it tonight, well, I was absorbed by it anyway.  I liked some of the little details such as the commodore 64 joystick in amongst the clearly unsettling plots.  Aside from the horrific drama the backdrops were just as I remember it, I am looking forward to next week anyway.


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## Clint Iguana (Sep 21, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> that was actually too grim, i'm not sure what purpose the rape scene served.


 
To demonstrate what an awful crime it is. Whilst it was grim, would it not be more of a crime to to show it as anything less grim?


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## Clint Iguana (Sep 21, 2010)

I have enjoyed the slow building of characters and plot - but there seems to be a lot of strands to be tied up in next weeks final episode


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## badlands (Sep 21, 2010)

it was brilliant.

Funny as fuck for most of it.

Then brutal and real when needed,

Johnny Harris is an awesome actor.

All you ep1 doubters, hang your heads.


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## Notorious J.I.M (Sep 22, 2010)

That was excellent. The darker stuff that was hinted at earlier came to the surface and I anticipate it will be upped another notch next week as the story concludes. Meadows sole involvement in directing was evident tonight, I thought the cast were more focussed and there were some strong performances. Should be a decent last episode with Meadows directing again.


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## keithy (Sep 22, 2010)

I really liked last night's episode. I liked the way the 'love triangle' swiftly turned into a demonstration of Lol not actually feeling love for anyone and just being all alone  

The rape scene... horrible to watch but effective. It wasn't like normal rape scenes in film/telly, and I felt like the relentlessness of it and the way his character had already been revealed to be volatile and violent really put me inside the drama and the storylines. It did draw a lot of it together. I don't think it was gratuitous. Difficult viewing, but it's a drama innit. Those complaining about it not being realistic enough... well... this was the most realistic episode for me (not just the rape scene)


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## radio_atomica (Sep 22, 2010)

D'wards said:


> Showed what an evil cunt the dad is


 
Right but we knew that he was an evil cunt from as soon as he started coming on to her.  I'm  not saying that the rape wasn't an integral part of the plot, just that it would have been far more effective to stop at the point where he says 'this can be the best fuck of your life, or the worst' rather than show pretty much the whole thing, with full sound as well.  Personally, I think that went too far, I don't feel that scene was neccessary to further the plot or the viewers understanding of how awful rape is.

e2a: rape isn't just about sex, for the dad's character it clearly isn't about sexual needs but about power, control, coersion etc etc and you can clearly show that, as i think they did really well up to a point, without showing him actually fucking her but tbh i've thought all the fucking they showed in the series was too much.


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## dlx1 (Sep 22, 2010)

Engines off  - Every Which Way but Loose (Black Widows)

Can't wait for lol dad to get his throat cut.
better then last week


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## paulhackett (Sep 22, 2010)

Was the rape scene worse because it was just about the last scene? I'm not sure I can recall such a scene without a denouement in the same episode, film? With this, there's a wait till next week, to see what, if anything happens to him, so the impact seemed all the greater.

On the 86 cultural front, were people high fiving in 86?


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

paulhackett66 said:


> On the 86 cultural front, were people high fiving in 86?



Yes.


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

dlx1 said:


> Can't wait for lol dad to get his throat cut.



Combo.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 22, 2010)

paulhackett66 said:


> On the 86 cultural front, were people high fiving in 86?


 
I'm pretty sure we did the "up above, on the side, down below - too slow" at school.


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## girasol (Sep 22, 2010)

I was expecting a lot worse given the 'warning' at the start.  The fight was hilarious 

rape scene was uncomfortable to watch, but surely that's the point?


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## paulhackett (Sep 22, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm pretty sure we did the "up above, on the side, down below - too slow" at school.



Something else I missed out on!


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## radio_atomica (Sep 22, 2010)

Iemanja said:


> I was expecting a lot worse given the 'warning' at the start.  The fight was hilarious
> 
> rape scene was uncomfortable to watch, but surely that's the point?


 
it was uncomfortable to watch, the whole thing as soon as she stepped in the door and he gave her a beer was uncomfortable to watch, but i don't have a problem with a graphic depiction of rape really, there's no problem with stuff being unsettling/upsetting to watch but when i write i _know_ that the inclusion of gratuitous scenes needs to be neccessary to the development or understanding of the plot.  i personally think that the physical depiction of him fucking her, and for that matter the other fairly graphic sex scenes were not neccessarialy there to further the plot - they weren't telling or showing the viewer anything that would give them further insight into the story that was being told.  my personal opinion is that you _must_ be able to to justify gratuitous scenes of sex and violence within the context of the storytelling for them to be included, otherwise it comes down to either titillation, playing it for laughs (which fair enough is a bit part of even 'dark' dramas but not in the case of this rape scene) or serving some need in the writer to include scenes which do not serve a purpose to the audience.

no matter how much you love or hate your characters, no matter how much sexual chemistry or tension there is between characters in a story you do not need to physically describe or depict who puts what where or how graphically violent one person is to another _unless_ it is required by the plot or to deepend the reader/viewers understanding of the story and characters.  i remember watching red riding and feeling pretty unsettled and upset by it but i didn't feel the same kind of annoyance that scenes that were not neccessary to the storytelling had been included (tbf i didn't see the first part so i'm onlly talking about 2 and 3 here).  from my point of view its a criticism of the writing/direction and decisions to include that scene in that way, not a kneejerk 'euw rape how awful dont show it' reaction, or a 'they should never have put that in the plot' criticism.


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## ringo (Sep 22, 2010)

I thought the rape scene was shocking not because it was graphically shown but because it so skilfully showed how someone could make the transition mentally and physically from sitting next to someone to raping them in just a few minutes, as well as how the girl went from uncomfortable to victim, rather than the usual random night attack usually depicted. It was horribly believable. Good, almost unwatchable television.


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## Sadken (Sep 22, 2010)

The rape scene was handled superbly, I thought.  It's a fucking brutal depiction of a fucking brutal crime.  If they wanted to be gratuitous, he would've stripped her naked, but he didn't.  

I have been very impressed with the series, having been a bit unfussed before it started.  Best thing on C4 since Red Riding imo.


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## London_Calling (Sep 22, 2010)

Yep, an interesting take on yer love triangle and a hugely powerful depiction of acquaintance/non-stranger rape.  Anti-dramatic.  It also weaves in nicely with Lol's 'inner turmoil' strand.

I also liked the fight scene as an antidiote to Green Street Green and all that bogus hard-case nonsense, and the awkward teen sex stuff with Shaun.

Was dreading them using a pregnancy cliche but so far so good.


----------



## heinous seamus (Sep 22, 2010)

Was Harvey the one that was bullying Shawn in the film? I couldn't think who he was.


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## jerrythesailor (Sep 22, 2010)

The "Your Dad in the ashtray" kid? I think so.


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

jerrythesailor said:


> The "Your Dad in the ashtray" kid? I think so.



Yeah, that was him.


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## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

i think the whole series has been a bit shit. i only watch it for the clothes and scooters and that's been a bit rubbish. 

meadows has shown a rape scene and some real brutality without any explaination of what led to these things or what motivated the characters involved. also, he nicks bits and pieces from the era without giving any wider perspective of what was happening or the mood of the time.

mind you, i thought the film was shit for pretty much the same reasons.


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## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> e2a: rape isn't just about sex, for the dad's character it clearly isn't about sexual needs but about power, control, coersion etc etc and you can clearly show that, as i think they did really well up to a point


i don't think they did. we know pretty much fuck all about the dad apart from he's a rapist who'se been absent for long periods of his childrens upbringing. you say it shows it isn't about sexual needs but nowhere in the film did it actually indicate this.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> he nicks bits and pieces from the era without giving any wider perspective of what was happening or the mood of the time.



He's nicking bits and pieces of his other films and replaying them too.

Vibrator humour from Smalltime, Turgoose in oversized clothes from Somerstown, a character who committed a violent act returning in a down and out state from 24/7, transient cockney dad from Romeo Brass (although he wasn't a sex case and turned out ok-ish), crap comedy characitures from once upon a time in the north....

....but I am still enjoying it. sort of.


----------



## girasol (Sep 22, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> it was uncomfortable to watch, the whole thing as soon as she stepped in the door and he gave her a beer was uncomfortable to watch, but i don't have a problem with a graphic depiction of rape really, there's no problem with stuff being unsettling/upsetting to watch but when i write i _know_ that the inclusion of gratuitous scenes needs to be neccessary to the development or understanding of the plot.  i personally think that the physical depiction of him fucking her, and for that matter the other fairly graphic sex scenes were not neccessarialy there to further the plot - they weren't telling or showing the viewer anything that would give them further insight into the story that was being told.  my personal opinion is that you _must_ be able to to justify gratuitous scenes of sex and violence within the context of the storytelling for them to be included, otherwise it comes down to either titillation, playing it for laughs (which fair enough is a bit part of even 'dark' dramas but not in the case of this rape scene) or serving some need in the writer to include scenes which do not serve a purpose to the audience.
> 
> no matter how much you love or hate your characters, no matter how much sexual chemistry or tension there is between characters in a story you do not need to physically describe or depict who puts what where or how graphically violent one person is to another _unless_ it is required by the plot or to deepend the reader/viewers understanding of the story and characters.  i remember watching red riding and feeling pretty unsettled and upset by it but i didn't feel the same kind of annoyance that scenes that were not neccessary to the storytelling had been included (tbf i didn't see the first part so i'm onlly talking about 2 and 3 here).  from my point of view its a criticism of the writing/direction and decisions to include that scene in that way, not a kneejerk 'euw rape how awful dont show it' reaction, or a 'they should never have put that in the plot' criticism.


 
All scenes of sex and violence don't need to be there, they can be implied...  Violence and sex don't need to be shown at all, but it doesn't stop them from being shown.  And why should it?  If things were happening in front of your eyes, in real life, the graphic bits wouldn't be cut off would they?

I'm not necessarily agreeing with the amount of sex/violence that gets shown, by the way, just pointing out why it's justifiable to show it.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 22, 2010)

i think that if they'd not shown the rape after it was evident that it was going to happen, that that would run more of the risk of titilation. As a society we smooth over the realities of it as a crime, and it becomes sensationalised... the sport reports on rape trials next to pic of naked women, teenagers will put a rape scene in every play they create if i let them - because of the big-drama, life-changing, fate-worse-than-death way it's sensationalised in traditional tv storytelling...  actually, i think people need to see something of the reality of how horrible the act actually is.  Not all screaming and ripped clothes and high-theatre, but nasty, and time-consuming and ugly.

it was very strong, and not at all overplayed.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 22, 2010)

I wondered if Meadows felt the need to show it in all it's horridness in order to show the real impact of a lone person faced with something so terrible, unable to do anything but just take what they are being dealt.

Lots of drama (films and tv) would have had the girl fight back and escape, all threat and no harm done.

I hated the scene, it was a fucking harsh watch, but it was bold scene and I agree with Spanglechick, it was not at all overplayed.

I felt very sad and angry watching it.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 22, 2010)

Overplayed - I thought the only issue was whether it was  underplayed.

In the context of his daughter Lol,  thought it was important to understand his particular MO, which we wouldn't have done in absentia.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I wondered if Meadows felt the need to show it in all it's horridness in order to show the real impact of a lone person faced with something so terrible, unable to do anything but just take what they are being dealt.
> 
> Lots of drama (films and tv) would have had the girl fight back and escape, all threat and no harm done.
> 
> ...



Agree with this. Wanted to bottle the fucker, stop it, anything, and he wasn't even real. Belting performances from the actors in what must have been a very difficult scene for them.


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Agree with this. Wanted to bottle the fucker, stop it, anything, and he wasn't even real. Belting performances from the actors in what must have been a very difficult scene for them.


 
there's no doubt it provoked an emotional knee jerk reaction but it lacked any real context.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 22, 2010)

oh well.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> there's no doubt it provoked an emotional knee jerk reaction but it lacked any real context.



Why do you think it lacked context?


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Why do you think it lacked context?


 
we know next to nothing about him or his life and why he did this.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 22, 2010)

There was a bloody awful claustrophobia to that scene too, from the moment the girl walked it it was clear it was never going to end well, and use of the audio from the rape over the 3 or 4 other scenes really changed those moments for the viewer, we were not allowed to escape the violation despite the presentation of a number of other characters across various situations. Suddenly any humour or joy that resides within the lives of those characters has been infected by a sexually violent act which may or may not ever be realised by them.

I thought my heart had stopped beating by the end.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> we know next to nothing about him or his life and why he did this.



But isn't it about his impact on the main characters that provides context - to them, I mean? Does it matter how rounded a character he is?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> we know next to nothing about him or his life and why he did this.



Would you have liked him to be a more sympathetic character or just more rounded?


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 22, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> But isn't it about his impact on the main characters that provides context - to them, I mean? Does it matter how rounded a character he is?


Yes, but only in the same way we're interested in why General Galtieri invaded the Falklands.


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> But isn't it about his impact on the main characters that provides context - to them, I mean? Does it matter how rounded a character he is?


 
i think so. otherwise he's just 'evil bloke', a two dimensional bogeyman.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> i think so. otherwise he's just 'evil bloke', a two dimensional bogeyman.



It's the nature of a 4 part series with a fair few characters, though. There just isn't time. Meadows seems to have tried his best - his head in his hands after the rape and it's already been said he never touched Kel.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 22, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> It's the nature of a 4 part series with a fair few characters, though. There just isn't time. Meadows seems to have tried his best - his head in his hands after the rape and it's already been said he never touched Kel.



I wonder if it's got something to do with girls who dress like boys?


----------



## Spion (Sep 22, 2010)

Last night's was the first one I've watched all the way thru. I was kind of hoping I'd be able to slag it off as I find it difficult to watch nostalgia-laden depictions of a period I lived thru. But the rape scene made it. It was valuable because it really showed rape to be a hideous thing (others have described how) when often to many it's just a word, especially if you've heard the way teenagers pepper their speech with it these days.


----------



## N_igma (Sep 22, 2010)

Fucking brilliant wanna see what sort of character Combo has turned out to be. Lol obviously has commitment issues with Woody because he stood her up on the alter. Plus I think she's facing facts that her life isn't going to end up how she thought it would be. 

I didn't find the rape scene too graphic.


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

i just think the whole series is a bit shit really.

where are the small frame vespas? never mind twats on fizzies, when i was sixteen, four of us out of fifteen on my yts had a vespa. on my mates yts it was six out of twenty. in the pit village we moved to there was about ten of us who had scooters, all vespas (one lad had a lammy li for a couple of weeks but he swapped it for a mk1 cortina in lotus colours).


----------



## girasol (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> i just think the whole series is a bit shit really.
> 
> where are the small frame vespas? never mind twats on fizzies, when i was sixteen, four of us out of fifteen on my yts had a vespa. on my mates yts it was six out of twenty. in the pit village we moved to there was about ten of us who had scooters, all vespas (one lad had a lammy li for a couple of weeks but he swapped it for a mk1 cortina in lotus colours).



You think the series is a bit shit because there are no small frame vespas in it?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> i just think the whole series is a bit shit really.
> 
> where are the small frame vespas? never mind twats on fizzies, when i was sixteen, four of us out of fifteen on my yts had a vespa. on my mates yts it was six out of twenty. in the pit village we moved to there was about ten of us who had scooters, all vespas (one lad had a lammy li for a couple of weeks but he swapped it for a mk1 cortina in lotus colours).


 
..and I'm sure that grass was much greener back then too. It was on the shitty housing estate I lived on. The sky was bluer too, despite our miserable existence.


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Iemanja said:


> You think the series is a bit shit because there are no small frame vespas in it?


 
it's the main reason i've watched it. i read some press thing about it which mentioned scooters.


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> ..and I'm sure that grass was much greener back then too. It was on the shitty housing estate I lived on. The sky was bluer too, despite our miserable existence.


 
i always remember it as being less green if anything. a bit dry and dusty.

it just seems weird that scooterism was massive at that point yet is hardly referenced at all.

i reckon, from watching the series and the film, that,

a, meadows had to wear fake dm's that his mom bought for him and is therefore a nob, and,

b, his mom wouldn't let him have a scooter, thus proving what a nob he is.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> i reckon, from watching the series and the film, that,
> 
> a, meadows had to wear fake dm's that his mom bought for him and is therefore a nob, and,
> 
> b, his mom wouldn't let him have a scooter, thus proving what a nob he is.



My Mum wouldn't let me have DMs at 13.

My Dad wouldn't let me spend my money on a Vespa at 16.

I'm a nob

(Just bought my son one though)


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> My Mum wouldn't let me have DMs at 13.


ha! nob.



> My Dad wouldn't let me spend my money on a Vespa at 16.


ha! nob.



> I'm a nob


yes you are.



> (Just bought my son one though)


 redemption.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 22, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> My Mum wouldn't let me have DMs at 13.
> 
> My Dad wouldn't let me spend my money on a Vespa at 16.
> 
> ...



same same

Monkey boots were the safe option for us nobs 

my redemption at 16 was a fizzie 

fizzies rule


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> same same
> 
> Monkey boots were the safe option for us nobs
> 
> ...


 
fizzies didn't rule and monkey boots were for girls.

the vespa fifty special with a 90/100/125 engine in it ruled.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> fizzies didn't rule and monkey boots were for girls.
> 
> the vespa fifty special with a 90/100/125 engine in it ruled.


 
haven't you noticed it's only the nobs in it that are on fizzies? Woody has a scooter.


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> fizzies didn't rule and *monkey boots were for girls*.


 
Were they? I know several trad skins who have owned original Czech ones and new ones, i've owned pairs over the years.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 22, 2010)

I had monkey boots when I first went to school. Yellow laces with metal tips.

The boots my Mum bought me thinking I'd wear them instead of DMs were fuckloads worse than monkey boots.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 22, 2010)

I had baby Docs from the age of about 10


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> Were they? I know several trad skins who have owned original Czech ones and new ones, i've owned pairs over the years.


 
it might have been acceptable in '69 or amongst those recreating it but at my school, if you got monkey boots instead of dm's it was because you were a girl or your mom wouldn't let you get dockers. everyone would laugh at you, even the rockers.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 22, 2010)

Last nights episode for me was one of the best pieces of work Meadows has done( yes I am a fan so know I'm biased). His direction definitely brought something out in the actors as said already, they seemed more intense imo. 

The fight scene was well done, one good punch and the rest of it just shit scrapping, very authentic. Made me nostalgic for the days when teenagers still had fistfights.

I couldn't the rape scenes went too far, it was a nasty, brutal and made me want to scream at the tv. But it's what he does well, showing how really fucking shit real life can be compared to how we often see it on screen.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> it might have been acceptable in '69 or amongst those recreating it but at my school, if you got monkey boots instead of dm's it was because you were a girl or your mom wouldn't let you get dockers. everyone would laugh at you, even the rockers.



Mate, even I hated having to wear them for thos reasons. I think I managed to get DM's in the end out of my own saved up money, funny enough Mum grew to like them as she realised how hard-wearing they were. She know wears a pair of their shoes at the age of 71.


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> it might have been acceptable in '69 or amongst those recreating it but at my school, if you got monkey boots instead of dm's it was because you were a girl or your mom wouldn't let you get dockers. everyone would laugh at you, even the rockers.


 
I have and always have had both. Some mates have a gentle jibe, most know it's an old school thing.


----------



## Spion (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> it just seems weird that scooterism was massive at that point yet is hardly referenced at all.


Was it in 86?

I remember there being loads of scooters about in 80-82-ish* and had a couple of Lambos myself (a cut down SX150 and a TV200).

But then I lived in Birmingham so we might have been a few years ahead of yow


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> funny enough Mum grew to like them as she realised how hard-wearing they were.


mine went round the family. my cousin would get them after me, by brother would get them after him.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 22, 2010)

As I recall at my school it was more likely you'd have the piss taken out of you for wearing 'baby' docs. I think they were size 5 and under with more of a square toe.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

Fucking hell, you're arguing about which kinds of boots you had when you were nippers. I had to wear fucking canoes to school, and hand-knitted tank tops, wear a flasher mac, carry a briefcase, and sport NHS specs & traintrack braces. Prolly why I loathe the idea of hipsters so much. They _just don't know_ about pain.


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Spion said:


> Was it in 86?
> 
> I remember there being loads of scooters about in 80-82-ish* and had a couple of Lambos myself (a cut down SX150 and a TV200).
> 
> But then I lived in Birmingham so we might have been a few years ahead of yow


ahead? in brum? yow'm saft, taeter. 

yeh 85/86, massive. scootering magazine in smiths along with scooter scene, scooterists getting escorted of the isle of white by police on the news, 'big cock' in the album charts, cutdowns everywhere along with beer towel patches on jeans and flight jackets.


----------



## Grandma Death (Sep 22, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> I couldn't the rape scenes went too far, it was a nasty, brutal and made me want to scream at the tv. But it's what he does well, showing how really fucking shit real life can be compared to how we often see it on screen.



The rape scene was brutal but brutal because of the misogyny of the rapist. I thought the editing during this scene was exceptional. Cutting it between the return of combo, the england goals and the rape sequence was IMO exceptional...powerful and riveting.


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> I had to wear fucking canoes to school, and hand-knitted tank tops, wear a flasher mac, carry a briefcase, and sport NHS specs & traintrack braces.


proto hipster cunt.


----------



## Grandma Death (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> we know next to nothing about him or his life and why he did this.



But is that really important? Should every crime portrayed on TV show the context?


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 22, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Fucking hell, you're arguing about which kinds of boots you had when you were nippers. I had to wear fucking canoes to school, and hand-knitted tank tops, wear a flasher mac, carry a briefcase, and sport NHS specs & traintrack braces. Prolly why I loathe the idea of hipsters so much. They _just don't know_ about pain.



Should of got a paper round then, speccy and freed yourself from the tyranny. Mind you I suffered at 8 when she made me wear sandels and shorts to school one summer, took me nearly thirty years to voluntarily wear them.


----------



## Grandma Death (Sep 22, 2010)

badlands said:


> All you ep1 doubters, hang your heads.



Yep. I said earlier on in this thread it would be a slow burner. Its turning out to be a quality drama IMO.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

discokermit said:


> proto hipster cunt.



It's a terrible burden knowing I might have inspired a generation of twatbubbles.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 22, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> Should of got a paper round then, speccy and freed yourself from the tyranny. Mind you I suffered at 8 when she made me wear sandels and shorts to school one summer, took me nearly thirty years to voluntarily wear them.



You know what happened to the last person that called me "speccy"?






























Nothing. I'm a speccy cunt.


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## BlackArab (Sep 22, 2010)

I was expecting you'd say he got wedged


----------



## discokermit (Sep 22, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> It's a terrible burden knowing I might have inspired a generation of twatbubbles.


----------



## D'wards (Sep 22, 2010)

If some of you argue that a brutal rape scene was out of place in a drama like this, where the rapist's past actions is a major theme, and casts a long shadow over the lives of his victims, and his family, then in what film/drama should you ever feature a scene like this?

It was not taken lightly, given the gravitas with which a horrific crime like that should be treated, and showed how devastating and damaging that is on people and the rest of their lives.

I believe if someone was put off the series by that scene, they should stick to lighthearted romcoms instead, and leave the "gritty" stuff well alone.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 23, 2010)

loving this, don't get the hate, esp the bike geekery. wtf is a fizzie and who cares? i now want to see a late 80s/early 90s soap opera based in leeds, please.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 23, 2010)

the casual fella with the daft voice is well funny, but i don't rememeber anyone like him and his gang in leeds. maybe i'm too young and unobservant and maybe leeds was separate from all that fashion shit. everyone in leeds was either a goth, punk, metaller, glam metaller or just wore chinos & ski jackets. nobody liked the latter. thinking on it i do remember one skinhead called clicky but he was a racist kniving cunt, a bit like combo.
people seem to be complaining about the party but it was the thing that ran true the most for me. the chump whose house it is, the randoms turning up, the mess made, and the wandering round trying to find a girl you fancy that you've finally summed up the courage to tell, only to find her snogging a berk in the bog. the older lady rang way too many embarrassing bells too.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2010)

The rape scene was horribly, horribly _look-away_ authentic, but rather a brave and justified inclusion.

I'm enjoying this drama, despite its odd flaw.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 23, 2010)

editor said:


> The rape scene was horribly, horribly _look-away_ authentic, but rather a brave and justified inclusion.
> 
> I'm enjoying this drama, despite its odd flaw.



Yeah it was so understated and almost ordinary that it made it even more brutal, the way he escalated his behaviour. It was well handled and like you say totally justified.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 23, 2010)

I was 14 in 86, and was wearing diadora trainers, farahs, lyle and scott jumpers and Adidas tennis shirts. Anyone who turned up at the park with DMs and a bomber jacket got a slap. No-one wore shit like that on our estate.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 23, 2010)

Casuals were wankers.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Sep 23, 2010)

I remember at school it was all farah's and pierre cardin and electro albums. The skinhead thing had passed on by come the mid-80s


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 23, 2010)

wankers at my school wore lacoste polo shirts and cirro citirio (sp?)


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 23, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> wankers at my school wore lacoste polo shirts and cirro citirio (sp?)



The dressers at my school wore Pringle or Lyle & Scott sweaters, Farahs & Kickers, later deck shoes.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 23, 2010)

oh yeah salmon pink and yellow pringle v-necks. bleurgh.
there was a craze for the vilest colourful ski jackets too, usually worn by twats with perms


----------



## trevhagl (Sep 23, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> Last nights episode for me was one of the best pieces of work Meadows has done( yes I am a fan so know I'm biased). His direction definitely brought something out in the actors as said already, they seemed more intense imo.
> 
> The fight scene was well done, one good punch and the rest of it just shit scrapping, very authentic. Made me nostalgic for the days when teenagers still had fistfights.
> 
> I couldn't the rape scenes went too far, it was a nasty, brutal and made me want to scream at the tv. But it's what he does well, showing how really fucking shit real life can be compared to how we often see it on screen.


 
i think it was that well acted i bet the geezer gets attacked in the street!


----------



## veltins (Sep 23, 2010)

editor said:


> The rape scene was horribly, horribly _look-away_ authentic, but rather a brave and justified inclusion.
> 
> I'm enjoying this drama, despite its odd flaw.


 
i agree , i have been enjoying the series up untill that point but felt this was too graphic. left me wanting to climb into the TV and beat the living shit out of him


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 23, 2010)

I've been really enjoying this - although last night, embarrassing as this it, we had to go and watch an episode of Glee afterwards as it almost felt like we couldn't breathe afterwards.  It was fantastically done and to me seemed incredibly real - I wanted to go in through the screen and bottle the bloke.  (eta - snap Veltin!) As already commented on by others, the sound, editing etc was amazing.  That episode will stay with me for a long time I should think.  Fantastic stuff.

Btw.. I was also 14 in 86 and it was all about the DMs round my way - I think I'm having a mid-life crisis as I'm hankering for another pair.  My first snog aged 13 was with a skinhead called Cabbage - who then pierced my ears for me...


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 23, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> oh yeah salmon pink and yellow pringle v-necks. bleurgh.
> there was a craze for the vilest colourful ski jackets too, usually worn by twats with perms



The combined wedge-with-neck-perm was "in" for a bit, on said golf jumper twats at my school.

After months of badgering my folks for some decent trainers they got me some Adidas something-or-other, which I turned up to school in the next day. Some casual twat sauntered over, and nodding at my feet, asked, "how much?" 

"Thir-ee", I replied, so nonchalantly I forgot the 't' in the number.

He sniffed, as if considering something else. After a few seconds he spat the way apprentice smokers do, and said, "Adidas are out. Reeboks are in now".

_Crushed._ Thankfully a couple of years later I didn't give a fuck.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 23, 2010)

gaijingirl said:


> My first snog aged 13 was with a skinhead called Cabbage - who then pierced my ears for me...


 
romance


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 23, 2010)

Casuals are ace btw. Except the knob heads.


----------



## discokermit (Sep 23, 2010)

souljacker said:


> I was 14 in 86, and was wearing diadora trainers, farahs, lyle and scott jumpers and Adidas tennis shirts. Anyone who turned up at the park with DMs and a bomber jacket got a slap.


you would have fucking shit yourself.


----------



## albionism (Sep 23, 2010)

When i started secondary school in '82 in east London there were a couple of dozen skinheads there, myself included,
but the Casual thing was starting to get big then. Diadora, Sergio, Fila, fucking pink Farahs. By '86 nearly everyone
was Casual. I never got into it myself. I went Punk. Any kid who wore cheap, no name clothing was mercilessly bullied, 
often to the point getting battered. Horrible times.


----------



## ymu (Sep 24, 2010)

Missed this on Tuesday. Just caught up.



D'wards said:


> If some of you argue that a brutal rape scene was out of place in a drama like this, where the rapist's past actions is a major theme, and casts a long shadow over the lives of his victims, and his family, then in what film/drama should you ever feature a scene like this?
> 
> It was not taken lightly, given the gravitas with which a horrific crime like that should be treated, and showed how devastating and damaging that is on people and the rest of their lives.
> 
> I believe if someone was put off the series by that scene, they should stick to lighthearted romcoms instead, and leave the "gritty" stuff well alone.


 
^^^This. One of those rare rape scenes that actually show the horror of the crime. Cutting away once it was obvious what was going to happen would have been shit. Rape scenes are always controversial but fucking hell, I'd rather they were all that realistic - maybe a few more men would "get" why it's not a fucking joke. Glossing over the reality, like some '50s film that cuts away once it's obvious that sex is about to take place, would have been completely wrong.

And what the hell more context do you need for the character? He's her mate's on-off dad. That _is_ the context for the girl being raped. For us, in addition, Lol has accused him of raping her but until this point we cannot be sure it's true (the scene at the flat, I think, was designed to put it in doubt - he flat out said it was a lie and she did not directly challenge him or re-accuse him). 

How does it need more context? Do people want to be able to make excuses for him? Or just be able to pigeon-hole him as an evil "other" so they don't have to think about the banal and all too common reality of men like this?

Moving on ... anyone notice that Shaun told Smell that they'd moved "a couple of months ago". So how did Combo know where he lived? I can't believe Meadows is going to rely on coincidence for Combo turning up there, so it's either a fuck-up or a plot point to be resolved in the final part.


----------



## keithy (Sep 24, 2010)

I don't really see that as a hole - it's not that difficult to find out where somebody lives


----------



## ymu (Sep 24, 2010)

When you've been beaten up and are looking for help?


----------



## keithy (Sep 24, 2010)

I didn't think it was supposed to be that he'd got beat up and suddenly thought "Oh I know!! I'll go to Shaun's innit".


----------



## souljacker (Sep 24, 2010)

discokermit said:


> you would have fucking shit yourself.



Bollocks.


----------



## ymu (Sep 24, 2010)

keithy said:


> I didn't think it was supposed to be that he'd got beat up and suddenly thought "Oh I know!! I'll go to Shaun's innit".


 
Well, I expect he was close by when he got beat up. But turning up at Shaun's house would be too much of a coincidence unless he knew where it was, and you'd definitely head to a mate's house if one was close by. The scriptwriters had no reason whatsoever to have that line in about them having moved so recently - four years ago and I'd believe that Combo did know. Two months makes me wonder if he's been in touch with Combo all along, or summat. Although I think Shaun would have recognised him quicker if they'd been in touch that recently.

I may be over-thinking this.


----------



## keithy (Sep 24, 2010)

I see it that Combo could have been looking for Shaun for a while, or keeping track, and then when he's needed somewhere he's gone to him.


----------



## ymu (Sep 24, 2010)

Sure. I'm expecting something like that to be mentioned. It's why I said it may be a plot point to be resolved. 

It could have been because they couldn't use the same house for Shaun as in the film and had a typical Smell line in for comedy ("That table wasn't there before", "Umm, this isn't the same house. We moved two months ago"). But why have him moving so recently? And why would they move house just before his GCSEs - especially since his mother gave a shit about his results. Unless they were forced to move through eviction, but it'd be odd if that hadn't been mentioned.

/over-thinking


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 24, 2010)

Not that I give a fuck but isn't Woody  riding a scooter, wearing a parka, and Paul Weller length hair . . .


----------



## ymu (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes. The hatred of fizzies has blinded him to the fact that only the dickheads are on fizzies. He should actually be slapping Meadows on the back for the astute commentary.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 24, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> Not that I give a fuck but isn't Woody  riding a scooter, wearing a parka, and Paul Weller length hair . . .


 
Yes. He has defo gone Mod.

Anyone still claiming to be a skinhead round our way in 86 was a bit simple in the brain and/or violently psychotic. I remember one chap who had a penchant for cornering youngsters and threatening to cut their ball sack off with his switchblade.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 24, 2010)

ymu said:


> When you've been beaten up and are looking for help?


 
Was he beaten up or just down and out?


----------



## ymu (Sep 24, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Was he beaten up or just down and out?


 
Beaten up. There was an open cut on his eyebrow when Shaun turned him over.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 24, 2010)

ymu said:


> Beaten up. There was an open cut on his eyebrow when Shaun turned him over.


 
I don't know if that confirms he was beaten up. He looked like a pissed up tramp with a bashed up face to me.


----------



## ymu (Sep 24, 2010)

Could be. Will find out on Tuesday.


----------



## Herbsman. (Sep 24, 2010)

Right. I've seen chechclear. Don't google that please. It's horrible. But if you already know what that is, then you know how bad it is. I saw it a few years ago and it really fucked me up. It took me weeks if not months to get over it.

In comparison to that rape scene, I _enjoyed_ chechclear.

edit: Just to clarify, I didn't _choose_ to watch it. Some cunt at uni showed it to me, without telling me what it was first.


----------



## badlands (Sep 24, 2010)

have you seen the trailer for the last ep?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 24, 2010)

Herbsman. said:


> Right. I've seen chechclear. Don't google that please.


 
i just did. i'm glad i've had a drink.


----------



## albionism (Sep 25, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> i just did. i'm glad i've had a drink.



Out of curiosity, i did too, but i didn't dare watch it.


----------



## albionism (Sep 25, 2010)

badlands said:


> have you seen the trailer for the last ep?



Any links to the trailer?.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 25, 2010)

albionism said:


> Out of curiosity, i did too, but i didn't dare watch it.


 
Me too, googling was enough. I'm all for watching acted violence but I've no desire to watch real snuff. Seems there's some debate about whether it's real but  sounded like it was real from what I'd read.

There's a little write up on the last episode on ch4 that give a bit away about what goes on.


----------



## trevhagl (Sep 25, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Yes. He has defo gone Mod.
> 
> Anyone still claiming to be a skinhead round our way in 86 was a bit simple in the brain and/or violently psychotic. I remember one chap who had a penchant for cornering youngsters and threatening to cut their ball sack off with his switchblade.


 
i was / am a nice skinhead


----------



## cliche guevara (Sep 25, 2010)

No, Fedayn is a nice skinhead. You're a dumb skinhead.


----------



## belboid (Sep 25, 2010)

This has been a typically slightly annoying work from Meadows, whos films I always enjoy watching, but am left slightly unsatisfied with. The first two were a bit too like the later series' of Shameless (after it had stopped being good), and it seemed too sweet.  Some of the performances were hit n miss as well, as if they'd improvised the scenes earlier, to get the lines right, but then had over-rehearsed so they didn't comne out naturally.

This last one was notably better, it being the first Meadows actually directed possibly being one reasonfor that, Lol's development is very good. And, tho you could kinda see the rape coming the brutality of it was horrifying. Superbly filmed.  

Will Meadows finally shoot a redemptive ending?  I doubt it.


----------



## ymu (Sep 25, 2010)

He usually does have some redemption and revenge at the end, no? Not that I've seen all of his films. But bullies making fools of themselves and the real cunts getting a good kicking seems to be a theme.


----------



## belboid (Sep 25, 2010)

it's not really 'redemption' tho is it? Bullies may well get their comeuppance, but there's no real evidence anyone has learnt anything (tho we do see with this series that Shaun obviously did do).

And, forgot to say before, it's nice to see Burngreave Cemetary on telly too


----------



## ymu (Sep 25, 2010)

There is usually a minor baddie who gets somewhat redeemed. The gang member with kids in Dead Man's Shoes, the thuggish dad in A Room for Romeo Brass. Revenge is certainly the more central theme, but redemption is often there too.

I'm guessing Compo for redemption, rapist for revenge. Comedy bullies just made to look foolish again.


----------



## belboid (Sep 25, 2010)

I'm not sure about the dad in Romeo, clobbering someone doesn't really amount to redemption for me.


----------



## ymu (Sep 25, 2010)

belboid said:


> I'm not sure about the dad in Romeo, clobbering someone doesn't really amount to redemption for me.


His redemption was his kids accepting that he was back and allowing him to stay.

It was pretty minor redemption for the guy in DMS too. As I said, revenge is a more prominent theme for him.


----------



## belboid (Sep 25, 2010)

mm, yeah, I suppose.

Still not seen DMS


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 25, 2010)

belboid said:


> mm, yeah, I suppose.
> 
> Still not seen DMS



I watched it the other day on You Tube; Italian subbies but hey ho. Cracking film, I thought, although perhaps the acting is better than the film overall.


and take it from there.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 25, 2010)

ymu said:


> I'm guessing Compo for redemption


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 25, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


>





Killed by runaway bath.


----------



## ymu (Sep 25, 2010)




----------



## Upchuck (Sep 26, 2010)

I've been watching this but have worked out I just really don;t care about many of the characters, the leads that is, and couldn;t really give a crap what happened to them.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 26, 2010)

Upchuck said:


> I've been watching this but have worked out I just really don;t care about many of the characters, the leads that is, and couldn;t really give a crap what happened to them.


 
Tbf, I feel much the same about your storylines, chuck.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Sep 26, 2010)

wow! just caught up and that last scene was very intense. As others have said it has left a huge gap asking what happens next. Looking forward to the last one


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 28, 2010)

So no explanation as yet as to how Combo found Shaun's house.


----------



## killer b (Sep 28, 2010)

Fucking hell


----------



## Dooby (Sep 28, 2010)

I've just had to turn it over so if Lol won that fight then I missed it.  I felt so distressed by last weeks, couldn't take that again!


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 28, 2010)

I think Combo has his redemption.


----------



## Notorious J.I.M (Sep 28, 2010)

Fuck I'm speechless


----------



## weepiper (Sep 28, 2010)

Just spent the last 20 mins with my hands over my mouth, apart from when I was shouting 'fucking hit him Lol'


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm the biggest pacifist I know. But I was still saying "go ON Lol. Fucking kill him."


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> I think Combo has his redemption.



Yep.


----------



## Dooby (Sep 28, 2010)

Oh god, she got him then? TELL ME! I couldn't watch.


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 28, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Yep.


 
And seems he's unable to cope with life outside, he owed the people he damaged, he did something to atone and to get himself back where he was safe....


----------



## Dooby (Sep 28, 2010)

*jumps up and down screaming waving hands in the air*


----------



## weepiper (Sep 28, 2010)

Dooby said:


> *jumps up and down screaming waving hands in the air*


 
yes, she got him, and Combo was the first on the scene, worked out what had happened and took the fall for her


----------



## Dooby (Sep 28, 2010)

weepiper said:


> yes, she got him, and Combo was the first on the scene, worked out what had happened and took the fall for her


 
oh god, beautiful, I hoped somehting like that but just couldn't face it in case of unremitting awfulness!


----------



## ymu (Sep 28, 2010)

ymu said:


> I'm guessing Compo for redemption, rapist for revenge.



_*polishes fist*_


----------



## ymu (Sep 28, 2010)

weepiper said:


> Just spent the last 20 mins with my hands over my mouth, apart from when I was shouting 'fucking hit him Lol'


Which is exactly why we had to see that rape scene. He wants us yelling at her to finish him off, and we just wouldn't otherwise.

Good stuff.


----------



## idioteque (Sep 28, 2010)

Fuck. That was amazing.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 28, 2010)

ymu said:


> Which is exactly why we had to see that rape scene. He wants us yelling at her to finish him off, and we just wouldn't otherwise.
> 
> Good stuff.


 
completely agree, and it worked.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 28, 2010)

That was brilliant! Glad that cunt is dead. Good on you Combo


----------



## killer b (Sep 28, 2010)

Hm. Combo was essentially the deus ex machina wasn't he? No real reason for him being there, except to make everything ok at the end.

That said, I was more impressed with this week's episode, and the more harrowing bits of last week make more sense now. I think it was pretty good after all.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 28, 2010)

Thought the ending was rushed and shapeless. Felt like there should be another episode. I know there's a lot to be said for just leaving things - the series just being a "snapshot" - but there were too many things not so much unanswered as written off. The big hoo-hah about getting married - what happened?

By far the worst thing about the whole series was the last 5 minutes when it could have made it brilliant.


----------



## N_igma (Sep 28, 2010)

Why was Combo going to the house in the first place?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 28, 2010)

N_igma said:


> Why was Combo going to the house in the first place?



Some vague allusion to "seeing a few sights". Was it where him and Lol had sex? The place the torch was lit, so to speak?


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 28, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Thought the ending was rushed and shapeless. Felt like there should be another episode. I know there's a lot to be said for just leaving things - the series just being a "snapshot" - but there were too many things not so much unanswered as written off. The big hoo-hah about getting married - what happened?
> 
> By far the worst thing about the whole series was the last 5 minutes when it could have made it brilliant.


 
I thought it was very true to life...how a terrible tragedy can occur and yet you still need to go to tesco for milk sorta thing.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 28, 2010)

Clair De Lune said:


> I thought it was very true to life...how a terrible trajedy can occur and ter you still need to go to tesco for milk sorta thing.


 
yeah, me too, life goes on despite all.


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 28, 2010)

killer b said:


> Hm. Combo was essentially the deus ex machina wasn't he? No real reason for him being there, except to make everything ok at the end.
> 
> That said, I was more impressed with this week's episode, and the more harrowing bits of last week make more sense now. I think it was pretty good after all.



Sort of, he had no other reason to be on the out though. His last reason, ie his mum, died, he had nothing left on the outside, he couldn't make it ok with Lol, Woody, Milky etc so he was left with the only other option he had, back in jail where he was safe and knew people.....


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 28, 2010)

killer b said:


> Hm. Combo was essentially the deus ex machina wasn't he? No real reason for him being there, except to make everything ok at the end.
> 
> That said, I was more impressed with this week's episode, and the more harrowing bits of last week make more sense now. I think it was pretty good after all.


 
A bit - although he did have a big thing for Lol in the film, it made sense that he'd want to see her first of all.

I thought the ending was a little odd, though I reckon it would have been better without the last ad break, I'd have felt less like i'd missed something.


----------



## N_igma (Sep 28, 2010)

Ah well just another 4 years until This is England '90.


----------



## mozzy (Sep 28, 2010)

Wow!! Brilliant acting! I am so pleased i kept up with this and carried on watching. I was unimpressed by the first episode but it all tied in together through out all the episodes.

I do feel as if alot of the plot was missing at the end, and could have gone further, but after reading posts on here, i can now see that maybe this was meant to leave a space to show how life still has to go on after tragedy.


----------



## killer b (Sep 28, 2010)

Perhaps. They could've had less lingering slo-mo shots of stuff that doesn't matter, and more plot though. I've no problem with things being left in the air, but so much of the show was barely even sketched out...


----------



## madamv (Sep 28, 2010)

Amazing acting, I too was screaming at the telly through my fingers 'fuckin hit him for fucks sake'......

Breathtaking....


----------



## weepiper (Sep 28, 2010)

killer b said:


> Perhaps. They could've had less lingering slo-mo shots of stuff that doesn't matter, and more plot though. I've no problem with things being left in the air, but so much of the show was barely even sketched out...


 
truest telly I seen in a while, after all, real life is just a series of slo-mo lingering shots of stuff that doesn't matter interspersed with thunderclaps of stuff that really really does.


----------



## Dooby (Sep 28, 2010)

weepiper said:


> truest telly I seen in a while, after all, real life is just a series of slo-mo lingering shots of stuff that doesn't matter interspersed with thunderclaps of stuff that really really does.


 
oooh very good!


----------



## ymu (Sep 28, 2010)

killer b said:


> Perhaps. They could've had less lingering slo-mo shots of stuff that doesn't matter, and more plot though. I've no problem with things being left in the air, but so much of the show was barely even sketched out...


That _was_ Combo's redemption though. Not just doing something good, but also showing that it helped restore some element of normality and peace to the others. He tore their lives apart a few years ago, and now he's helped put them back together again.

This is England the film has quite a different arc to his other films (those that I've seen). The series kind of finished it off, Meadows style.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 28, 2010)

N_igma said:


> Ah well just another 4 years until This is England '90.


 
Madchester era.... I foresee Woody with curtains, flares and a No Alla Violenza t-shirt.


----------



## Grandma Death (Sep 28, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> So no explanation as yet as to how Combo found Shaun's house.



Its not that important. If I went back to the estate I grew up on I'd be able to find out where people had moved to no problem....and I left that estate 5 years ago. This was only a few years after.


----------



## Grandma Death (Sep 28, 2010)

Apart from Stephen England (who is IMO a brilliant actor)...the actress who played LOL was outstanding and the best thing about the whole series.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 28, 2010)

Yeah she was fantastic, not to mention drop dead gorgeous.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 28, 2010)

Grandma Death said:


> Apart from Stephen England (who is IMO a brilliant actor)...the actress who played LOL was outstanding and the best thing about the whole series.



Stephen Graham?

Agreed on Lol, she's got a great look about her too.


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 28, 2010)

Grandma Death said:


> Apart from Stephen England (who is IMO a brilliant actor)...the actress who played LOL was outstanding and the best thing about the whole series.


 
Do you mean Stephen Graham? Vicki McClure played Lol.


----------



## Grandma Death (Sep 28, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> Stephen Graham?
> 
> Agreed on Lol, she's got a great look about her too.



Combo


----------



## badlands (Sep 29, 2010)

johnny harris was fantastic


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 29, 2010)

badlands said:


> johnny harris was fantastic


 
He played the character superbly.


----------



## ymu (Sep 29, 2010)

weepiper said:


> truest telly I seen in a while, after all, real life is just a series of slo-mo lingering shots of stuff that doesn't matter interspersed with thunderclaps of stuff that really really does.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 29, 2010)

Fuck me... ;(


----------



## discokermit (Sep 29, 2010)

more scooters this time. the lambrettas riding around bit was good.


----------



## girasol (Sep 29, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Thought the ending was rushed and shapeless. Felt like there should be another episode. I know there's a lot to be said for just leaving things - the series just being a "snapshot" - but there were too many things not so much unanswered as written off. The big hoo-hah about getting married - what happened?
> 
> By far the worst thing about the whole series was the last 5 minutes when it could have made it brilliant.


 
Yep.  And they resorted to slow motion/music far too many times!  And what was the point of the wedding scenario?  It felt like it was there just to fill in a few minutes so that it would make a whole 45 minutes or however long the episodes last.  Most of that episode didn't really work for me.

Lol was a great character though!


----------



## radio_atomica (Sep 29, 2010)

I thought combo coming back to sort of sort everything out by taking the rap for Lol etc was quite a good touch but at the same time I don't think he (Meadows) deserves to use that epically great and unrealistic ending to explain things away without tying up the loose plot ends.  Either you're doing little snapshots of life bumbling along like it really does (as weepiper describes) or you're writing a plot that follows a properly satisfying story arc - most of this episode he took option one, except when Combo miraculously turned up at Shuan's house (even though he'd moved and they mentioned that he'd moved but it wasn't really a joke but there was no other reason for it being there), miraculously turned up at Lol's house just at the right moment and then worked out exactly what had happened, set it up to look like he'd done it and sorted it all out even though only hours before at Shaun's house he'd basically been someone who looked like he couldn't string a sentence together.

To be fair it looks as though quite a lot of talking script was cut to make it fit the hour long episodes, but then again they could have had less pointless montages.

Also, I don't think I needed to see a man rape a teenage girl to appreciate that he was a fucking cunt or that his daughter who he'd be raping, intimidating etc etc since childhood would be cross enough to want to cave his head in with a hammer - but obviously other people have made this point so maybe it is valid.  It's a different subject really but people are often quite unwilling to believe rape victims and conviction rates are stupidly low so y'know, maybe people really don't believe that this kind of horrific violence happens to women by people who are supposed to love them every single day.  (Not a dig at people who made the above point about the inclusion of the rape scene above, just a general observation about people's general attitudes to rape generally).


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 29, 2010)

girasol said:


> And what was the point of the wedding scenario?


 
It was a brilliant contrast between what Woody and as we know Lol wanted and what was really happening. Perhaps a wee nod to Oscar Wilde "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." An observation of the differences between our actual lives and what we want them to be....


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 29, 2010)

weepiper said:


> after all, real life is just a series of slo-mo lingering shots of stuff that doesn't matter interspersed with thunderclaps of stuff that really really does.


 
Nicely put.


----------



## girasol (Sep 29, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> It was a brilliant contrast between what Woody and as we know Lol wanted and what was really happening. Perhaps a wee nod to Oscar Wilde "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." An observation of the differences between our actual lives and what we want them to be....


 
I don't think it worked though...  Just felt incomplete somehow.  And way too much slow motion, as I mentioned already.  It was getting on my nerves in the end.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 29, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> Also, I don't think I needed to see a man rape a teenage girl to appreciate that he was a fucking cunt or that his daughter who he'd be raping, intimidating etc etc since childhood would be cross enough to want to cave his head in with a hammer - but obviously other people have made this point so maybe it is valid.  It's a different subject really but people are often quite unwilling to believe rape victims and conviction rates are stupidly low so y'know, *maybe people really don't believe that this kind of horrific violence happens to women by people who are supposed to love them every single day*.  (Not a dig at people who made the above point about the inclusion of the rape scene above, just a general observation about people's general attitudes to rape generally).



Only 17% of rapes in the UK are carried out by strangers, the rest are all people we know, including friends and family.

Rape as presented in Film and TV doesn't really demonstrate this, and what This Is England also highlighted was that this stuff festers and lingers unspoken within families for decades and continues and repeats itself with horrific consequences.

What sadly happens less is that the perpetrators end up with a hammer in their skull.

In real life the rapists often live on and make the lives of others hell.

I do think some of the story arcs got rushed towards the end, and perhaps we could have had less light hearted stuff in eps 1 & 2 giving more room for weighty stuff which came a bit too late to fully explore and resolve.

I thought it was good TV, but not a good as TV can be.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 29, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> It was a brilliant contrast between what Woody and as we know Lol wanted and what was really happening. Perhaps a wee nod to Oscar Wilde "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." An observation of the differences between our actual lives and what we want them to be....


 
Yes, I thought so too. As Woody was riding round excitedly planning his future and a surprise marriage to the girl he loves, Lol was shocked by the news her friend was raped and planning not only revenge but to close that awful chapter of her life so that she could move on. It was extremely well acted imo, not often you see something so raw and real.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 29, 2010)

I also think the non-wedding scene was a bit wasted and seemed to simply exist to give the rest of the cast something to do while the real story went on.

A show like the Sopranos was brave enough to ignore characters when they had no part to play in a story. Meadows appeared to want us to stay in touch with them as they pratted about on scooters in bad clothes.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 29, 2010)

Here's how I'd have ended it:

Maradona scores to make it 2-0. Someone, maybe Woody, says, "that's fair enough that is". Cut to Combo going into cell. Cut to flat, Lol comforting Kel. Woody & Milky engrossed in the footy. Cut to footage of Lineker scoring. Cut to pub erupting, maybe in slow-mo. Cut to flat - Woody & Milky on their feet embracing. Lol fiddling with her wedding ring, looking at Woody with not-quite-a-smile, not-quite-an-anxious look. Cut to Combo leaning back against cell wall closing his eyes with a sigh.

Maybe more cheesy. But properly ended, with the right amount of "what happens next?" about it.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 29, 2010)

Best thing on tv in ages.


----------



## Grandma Death (Sep 29, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I also think the non-wedding scene was a bit wasted and seemed to simply exist to give the rest of the cast something to do while the real story went on.



I didnt see it as that. If you remember it was edited alongside the LOL visit to her dad and not knowing whether they would find her before she got there and get her to the wedding was part of the tension.


----------



## radio_atomica (Sep 29, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Only 17% of rapes in the UK are carried out by strangers, the rest are all people we know, including friends and family.
> 
> Rape as presented in Film and TV doesn't really demonstrate this, and what This Is England also highlighted was that this stuff festers and lingers unspoken within families for decades and continues and repeats itself with horrific consequences.
> 
> ...


 
I knew this already, I thought it was much more common knowledge, although I know there is an awful lot of ignorance as well still.  I think women tend to hear about it more from other women as well and sometimes I think people tend to categorise rapists and child abusers in two separate categories.  However, I'm not sure that the story he was really telling was about how awful and real and violent and life destroying rape is, I can see that that played a part in the story he was telling but I don't think that story was clear enough for the rape storyline to back it up fully.  Overall it was a bit all over the place but I do think that's in part down to the limitations of having 4 1 hour episodes with 3 ad breaks in each one - must be much more difficult to edit than a film where you tell the story then stop when you get to the end.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Sep 29, 2010)

I have really enjoyed it in a "please don't let that happen" kind of way. The graphic gruesomeness I think was valid and did prove a point in the plot. All week I have been looking forward to watching it to find out what would happen. When Trev visited Lol and told her what happened, the second she said she was nipping out for soup I was hoping she was going to batter the dad or something. Not all the acting was great but it gave it a grittiness that I liked.

The ending was a bit rushed but I don;t think there should be another series, this group of people have served their purpose and another series would just overegg the pudding


----------



## starfish (Sep 29, 2010)

Excellent series. Great acting & good storyline. Had a feeling of a lot of improvisation as opposed to scripted scenes. Some of the conversations seemed like what would be said instead of what someone writes for you to say. Great choice of song to end it all on as well.


----------



## Edie (Sep 29, 2010)

I dunno what to say. I can't believe they showed that. Just cannot believe it was so fuckin brutally real. There should have been a warning on them last two episodes. Vomiting brutal evil.


----------



## starfish (Sep 29, 2010)

Edie said:


> I dunno what to say. I can't believe they showed that. Just cannot believe it was so fuckin brutally real. There should have been a warning on them last two episodes. Vomiting brutal evil.



There was a warning on last nights show just after, i think, the third ad break. Might have been the second but there was definitely a warning.


----------



## Edie (Sep 29, 2010)

starfish said:


> There was a warning on last nights show just after, i think, the third ad break. Might have been the second but there was definitely a warning.


oh right, I watched it on catch up which explains it.

Jesus fuckn wept, I had to go and hang the socks on the radiator upstairs to have a cry after last weeks. Wretched.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 29, 2010)

what's happened to turgoose's eyes?


----------



## discokermit (Sep 29, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Here's how I'd have ended it:
> 
> Maradona scores to make it 2-0. Someone, maybe Woody, says, "that's fair enough that is". Cut to Combo going into cell. Cut to flat, Lol comforting Kel. Woody & Milky engrossed in the footy. Cut to footage of Lineker scoring. Cut to pub erupting, maybe in slow-mo. Cut to flat - Woody & Milky on their feet embracing. Lol fiddling with her wedding ring, looking at Woody with not-quite-a-smile, not-quite-an-anxious look. Cut to Combo leaning back against cell wall closing his eyes with a sigh.
> 
> Maybe more cheesy. But properly ended, with the right amount of "what happens next?" about it.


 
better still, they all get on scooters at the beginning of the episode and razz round on them for forty five minutes. maybe one of them would have segs on their heels so they could make big showers of sparks as they rode around.


----------



## Ceej (Sep 30, 2010)

There was definitley room for another half hour, and the slow-mo sequences were a bit long...and I found the attacks made me want to scratch at my skin, but a sterling cast, a whole lot less processed than most tv drama. And the dad was the worst character and the best actor I've seen for a good while. Roll on This is England 90. There's a few more stories to tell....


----------



## radio_atomica (Sep 30, 2010)

discokermit said:


> better still, they all get on scooters at the beginning of the episode and razz round on them for forty five minutes. maybe one of them would have segs on their heels so they could make big showers of sparks as they rode around.


----------



## Edie (Sep 30, 2010)

Ceej that actor that played the Dad was totally amazing. That understated twitchy sideways head movement he did when he was angry and the rage was building up was so fuckin spot on. And when he was really pissed on the couch watching the footie, just the smallest movements that let you know how pissed he was. Just exactly how it is, just what it is walking in on someone that terrifying when they're pissed and coming up violent was perfect, and that lasses innocence that she couldn't tell was heartbreaking. 

The last scene when Lol was fronting him, when she poked him. Fuckin hell, just that whole scene of the build up of unbearable tension. I don't think I've watched summat that captures the pushed down extremes of hatred and rage you get at home like that before. It was just exactly what it's like. Christ that fear that makes you wanna vomit.


----------



## girasol (Sep 30, 2010)

Yes I totally agree with Edie, those were by far the strongest and most well executed/acted scenes of the whole lot.  Amazingly done.


----------



## trevhagl (Sep 30, 2010)

Clair De Lune said:


> Yes, I thought so too. As Woody was riding round excitedly planning his future and a surprise marriage to the girl he loves, Lol was shocked by the news her friend was raped and planning not only revenge but to close that awful chapter of her life so that she could move on. It was extremely well acted imo, not often you see something so raw and real.


 
agreed and i think there'll be a follow up as he left enough loose ends


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 30, 2010)

girasol said:


> Yes I totally agree with Edie, those were by far the strongest and most well executed/acted scenes of the whole lot.  Amazingly done.


 
Agree as well. Utterly electrifying tv. Haven't seen anything like it before.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2010)

very compelling stuff. thought the contrast between the slapstick benny hill scenes with the drama could be a little jarring and meadows' use of music during the climactic scene was pish. johnny harris' character could have been fleshed out a little more too. also, why do meggy and the other older fella hang around a bunch of kids? or, rather, why do a bunch of kids let them hang about? 
some characters weren't in it enough - lol's sister barely spoke at all.
but, yes, more of this sort of thing please channel 4. and make a proper series next time, so it's not rushed and sketchy.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2010)

trevhagl said:


> agreed and i think there'll be a follow up as he left enough loose ends


 
there's gonna be a this is england '90 - enter the rave!


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## krtek a houby (Sep 30, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> very compelling stuff. thought the contrast between the slapstick benny hill scenes with the drama could be a little jarring and meadows' use of music during the climactic scene was pish. johnny harris' character could have been fleshed out a little more too. also, why do meggy and the other older fella hang around a bunch of kids? or, rather, why do a bunch of kids let them hang about?
> some characters weren't in it enough - lol's sister barely spoke at all.
> *but, yes, more of this sort of thing please channel 4. and make a proper series next time, so it's not rushed and sketchy*.



There must be a directors cut, surely?


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## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2010)

jer said:


> There must be a directors cut, surely?


 not necessarily. meadows makes things quickly - a lot of his things are rough and sketchy.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 30, 2010)

jer said:


> There must be a directors cut, surely?


 
The one in which Woody's character grows some balls and doesn't look like a member of Shawoddywoddy.


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## krtek a houby (Sep 30, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> not necessarily. meadows makes things quickly - a lot of his things are rough and sketchy.


 
Still think A Room For Romeo Brass was standout genius - but a lot of that had to do with Paddy Considine.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 30, 2010)

jer said:


> Still think A Room For Romeo Brass was standout genius - but a lot of that had to do with Paddy Considine.


 
It was great, but also patchy as fuck and paced all over the place.


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## krtek a houby (Sep 30, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It was great, but also patchy as fuck and paced all over the place.


 
Much like life, as someone else pointed out


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## Clair De Lune (Sep 30, 2010)

Edie said:


> Ceej that actor that played the Dad was totally amazing. That understated twitchy sideways head movement he did when he was angry and the rage was building up was so fuckin spot on. And when he was really pissed on the couch watching the footie, just the smallest movements that let you know how pissed he was. Just exactly how it is, just what it is walking in on someone that terrifying when they're pissed and coming up violent was perfect, and that lasses innocence that she couldn't tell was heartbreaking.
> 
> The last scene when Lol was fronting him, when she poked him. Fuckin hell, just that whole scene of the build up of unbearable tension. I don't think I've watched summat that captures the pushed down extremes of hatred and rage you get at home like that before. It was just exactly what it's like. Christ that fear that makes you wanna vomit.


 
Completely, the tension was immense. Proper bravery was that, fronting up to the man she was so afraid of. I was completely there with her, gritted teeth and seething rage bubbling below the surface, my heart was pounding.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 30, 2010)

jer said:


> Much like life, as someone else pointed out


 
People are better actors in real life.

I wonder if the blond kid from Romeo Brass went on to do owt?


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## London_Calling (Sep 30, 2010)

girasol said:


> And what was the point of the wedding scenario?  It felt like it was there just to fill in a few minutes so that it would make a whole 45 minutes or however long the episodes last.  Most of that episode didn't really work for me.


 I thought the main idea was to set up a contrast with scenes in the same sequence. The constants were the groom at the church with the congregation waiting for the bride-to-be to arrive (usually with the father-of-the-bride and for them to walk up the aisle). We know that last part wouldn't happen because we're already had a trial run but the rest of the convention is set up.

The contrast is that instead of the bride arriving flustered and a few minutes late on the arm of her father, we get the father being hammered to death while attempting a rape of his daughter. The contrast then invites us to think about abstracts like how soon it is from '86 to the demise of the nuclear family as a dominant framework for non middle class families, what that means, etc. And I suppose to also to consider our personal experiences of marriages/weddings, and family, friends, etc.

I thought it served other purposes as well (in character arcs mainly) but that was what I read as the dramatic intent.


Overall, Meadows is still only 28 I believe. It was a tricky length . . . but it was thin. Some good scenes, some structural problems: Meadows 3 1/2 hours Baftas 0


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 30, 2010)

Meadows is 38.


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## London_Calling (Sep 30, 2010)

That's a shame then. Oh well, there's always French cinema.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 30, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> That's a shame then. Oh well, there's always French cinema.


 
Ha ha....yeah...and Boardwalk Empire. I reckon that's be up your street.

Haven't seen yet, but I have two episodes.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2010)

don't tell him about that. we'll probably get a ten thousand word masterclass on the schematics of the plotting or summat.


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## London_Calling (Sep 30, 2010)

Heh. I'll have you know The Guardian paid money for that stuff! Only once, mind.


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 30, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> Heh. I'll have you know The Guardian paid money for that stuff! Only once, mind.


 
They used to pay Ron Liddle too.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2010)

and priscilla kwatang


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## London_Calling (Sep 30, 2010)

That's easy for you to say.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2010)

it's actually quite a mouthful


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 30, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> it's actually quite a mouthful


 
You said that without moving your lips


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## trevhagl (Sep 30, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> there's gonna be a this is england '90 - enter the rave!


 
will the characters be so weak willed they drift off into shit music and bad taste clothes though?


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## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2010)

what, like they are now?


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## trevhagl (Sep 30, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> what, like they are now?


 
even Theatre of Hate and the Cramps were better than rave


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## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2010)

trevhagl said:


> will the characters be so weak willed they drift off into shit music and bad taste clothes though?


 
it would be a natural progression for this to happen. most people don't stay the same thing all their lives.
saying that, it would have been cool if one of the characters from the '86 had been a b-boy with a ghettoblaster shaking down the estates with electro.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2010)

trevhagl said:


> even Theatre of Hate and the Cramps were better than rave


 it doesn't matter what you think of it - it was a huge thing that Da Youth got into and it would be stupid not to portray it


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## Wonky (Dec 12, 2010)

> Channel 4 have announced that This Is England will return to our screens next year, this time set in the 1990s.
> The recent run of This Is England ’86 – a spin-off of the original movie – brought in three million viewers for the channel earlier this year.
> C4 drama chief Camilla Campbell said:
> “It is a continuation of the same characters four years on, looking at rave culture and the World Cup.
> “Shane Meadows is brimming with ideas. We are really excited.”



http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/this-is-england-to-return-to-channel-4/


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## Edie (Dec 12, 2010)

Wonky said:


> http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/this-is-england-to-return-to-channel-4/


Cool. That first one fuckin blew me away it was so good. Could hardly bare to watch.


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## sim667 (Dec 13, 2010)

wicked, this should be really good.


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