# Bill Hicks - misogynist and homophobe?



## ashie259 (Apr 28, 2009)

I was a big fan of Bill Hicks ever since seeing him live in Brighton back in the early 90s. (I even got to meet him backstage - a mate of mine's band were the warm-up act - and found him to be a lovely bloke.) I'd subsequently got hold of much of his recorded material as I could, and found him to be spot-on politically - not just ahead of the curve as far as comedians go, but unique in his honesty and insightfulness.

He came up in conversation recently and it emerged that Mrs ashie259 hadn't seen or heard him in action. So I ordered the 'Sane Man' live DVD from Lovefilm and we watched it last night. It was the first time I'd seen a Bill Hicks performance in about ten years, and the first time I'd watched one with a woman.

In a nutshell, I was shocked and made quite uncomfortable by the misogyny and homophobia that seemed to run through Hicks' set. References to 'faggots' and 'dykes' were clearly unironic, and the skit of Jimi Hendrix raping Debbie Gibson made me squirm. Hicks has boundless contempt for  Gibson and Tiffany as artists (rightly) but wouldn't have a problem seeing them getting it on with each other, despite describing them both as 'twelve-year-olds'. This put me in mind of the 'goat boy' routine that I'd found hilarious back in the day - now it just seems to be on well-dodgy territory.

I'm a little disappointed - Bick Hicks was one of my heroes. Am I missing something, or am I, a decade on, less tolerant towards and more sensitive about these attitudes? Is what I took for unflinching honesty just bigotry after all?


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## bouncer_the_dog (Apr 28, 2009)

prude


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## skunkboy69 (Apr 28, 2009)

I think he did it for shock value more than actually believing it himself.A comedey routine is an act after all.I guess we'll never know.


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## kyser_soze (Apr 28, 2009)

You're kind of missing the point with Goatboy - it's _supposed_ to gross you out. Hicks whole point with Goatboy was to take people into a truly dark and nasty place and make them laugh. As for him being sexist and homophobic...nah, the man was about as far away from both as it's possible to get...

TBH, it's not so much the language that's put me off him, it's the endless conspiracy bollocks he used to spout about Kennedy...it kind of makes me glad he died before 9/11 cos I'd hate to see him parroting Prison Planet about it all...


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## London_Calling (Apr 28, 2009)

I really enjoy mapping current social mores on previous decades. Not that it matters much I know but, just as an example, rape within marriage was legal in this country until around the time  you met Bill Hicks.

Did you know Dickens was an anti-Semite?


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## Flashman (Apr 28, 2009)

He was about as homophobic as Sadowitz was racist.


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## isitme (Apr 28, 2009)

i kind of agree with the OP, he was a bit of a twat tbh

he could be funny, but he hasn't aged very well, a lot of his attitudes are really dodgy and he is always bragging about taking loads of drugs etc

not that he wasn't a good comedian, but he was very much part of that arrogant american shit

I don't buy the whole 'he was being ironic' shit either. he was just getting cheap laughs and I'm sure he was a lovely bloke etc etc but it doesn't get him off the hook for getting cheap laughs by saying dodgy shit


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## gsv (Apr 28, 2009)

I don't know the Sane Man routine, but Goatboy is spot-on satire of celebrity shallowness.

GS(v)


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## Orang Utan (Apr 28, 2009)

he wasn't a very good comedian


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2009)

He was overrated, and would probably be long forgotten had he lived.


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## goldenecitrone (Apr 28, 2009)

Very funny man. Half preacher, half rock star, half very funny bloke. Definitely more than the sum of his parts.


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## DaRealSpoon (Apr 28, 2009)

Don't buy that he was a homophobe or mysoginist. 'Gays in the military' sketch, rips the piss out of homophobia is the way I see it.

For me the guy is an absolute legend. More philosophical 'stuff we'd love to say' but can't than comedy. Come the next census fuck Jedi.... My religous views will be - Bill Hicks.

I'd have loved to see what he made of the current global going's on. When you listen to him talk about the first Iraq war the parallels to now are spooky.

Not dissing anyone for not liking him like, but I for one Love ya Bill!!!!


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## belboid (Apr 28, 2009)

He was a misanthrope rather than any specific kind of bigot.


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## tar1984 (Apr 28, 2009)

belboid said:


> He was a misanthrope rather than any specific kind of bigot.



Yep.


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## Brother Mouzone (Apr 28, 2009)

belboid said:


> He was a misanthrope rather than any specific kind of bigot.



Nail meet head.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 28, 2009)

belboid said:


> He was a misanthrope rather than any specific kind of bigot.



like Manning


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## tar1984 (Apr 28, 2009)

Orang Utan said:


> like Manning



Manning was a proper racist.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 28, 2009)

he hated everyone, except disableds


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## exleper (Apr 28, 2009)

Orang Utan said:


> like Manning


Manning wasn't a misanthrope, he loved his country, like most racists.  Misanthropy doesn't mean you're bigoted, it means you have a bleak view of all humanity.


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## El Jefe (Apr 28, 2009)

largely unfunny comedian who made a career of stating the bleeding obvious to mid-western yanks and student stoners as if he was delivering some holy revelation.

possiblt the most over-rated performer ever.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 28, 2009)

nah, that was Jesus


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## exleper (Apr 28, 2009)

Orang Utan said:


> nah, that was Jesus


the key thing here is Hicks was, like Jesus and Lennon, seen as a martyr, and so a reasonable amount of talent was posthumously blown out of proportion.  I like Bill Hicks, he was a decent stand up, but certainly overrated, there are plenty of comparable acts who don't enjoy his fame because they're foolish enough to remain alive.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2009)

exleper said:


> there are plenty of comparable acts who don't enjoy his fame because they're foolish enough to remain alive.


There's a lot of acts that'd be vastly improved by death.


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## isitme (Apr 28, 2009)

exleper said:


> the key thing here is Hicks was, like Jesus and Lennon, seen as a martyr, and so a reasonable amount of talent was posthumously blown out of proportion.  I like Bill Hicks, he was a decent stand up, but certainly overrated, there are plenty of comparable acts who don't enjoy his fame because they're foolish enough to remain alive.



people were calling lennon a genius when he was still alive


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## belboid (Apr 28, 2009)

exleper said:


> the key thing here is Hicks was, like Jesus and Lennon, seen as a martyr, and so a reasonable amount of talent was posthumously blown out of proportion.  I like Bill Hicks, he was a decent stand up, but certainly overrated, there are plenty of comparable acts who don't enjoy his fame because they're foolish enough to remain alive.



Naah, i dont think thats quite right. What Hicks was doing at the time was pretty unique. Following in the traditions of Lenny Bruce and Richard Pryor it was _anti-american_ when it was almost a crime to be so.  He took the piss out of the rich and powerful as well as the liberals and the poor. He was ‘needlessly’ offensive, and said a whole bunch of shit just to shock, and to try to make people _think_. No one else was really doing that then.

For sure, he wasn't really the best crafter of jokes, nor the best storyteller, and (like Bruce and pryor) he could often descend into bollocks that was only really relevant or interesting to him. Had he lived he'd be seen more like Billy Connolly, with lots of people having forgotten what made him actually good in the first place.


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## isitme (Apr 28, 2009)

billy connoly still gets a lot of respect from me. and his new stuff isn't that bad, i think the last few years he actually managed to get over himself!


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2009)

Connolly can be good.  I remember when he was very good, and there was a point to him.  I remember listening to his records in my bedroom in the 70s.  He was a phenomenon.  With Hicks, I could never see the point.


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## belboid (Apr 28, 2009)

Do you think you’d think so if you heard them again now? I heard the jesus in Glasgow thing recentlyish (couple of years back), and it just wasn’t funny. I remember laughing to it at the time (ie the seventies) but now…..nowt. 

He might well have been a phenomenon then (and indeed he was, a groundbreaking type of comedy he did), but Hicks did likewise.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2009)

belboid said:


> Do you think you’d think so if you heard them again now?


No, I know I wouldn't, because I've re-listened fairly recently. They were of their time.  But the thing is I never saw the point of Hicks _at the time_.

I had a Danish acquaintance who was a huge Hicks fan at the time.  It was through her that I heard of him. She was an Apostle for him.  (This was before his death). I met her again a couple of years back, and she was as devoted to Al Gore's environment stuff.  It seemed appropriate.


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## isitme (Apr 28, 2009)

belboid said:


> Do you think you’d think so if you heard them again now? I heard the jesus in Glasgow thing recentlyish (couple of years back), and it just wasn’t funny. I remember laughing to it at the time (ie the seventies) but now…..nowt.
> 
> He might well have been a phenomenon then (and indeed he was, a groundbreaking type of comedy he did), but Hicks did likewise.



i bought a record of billy connoly's 70s stuff in 2002 with Jesus in Glasgow and Camping and some of his songs on and while it wasn't 'daring' like it probably was then it is still funny and the songs are still good


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## kabbes (Apr 28, 2009)

Jasper Carrott seemed daring and original in the 1980s.


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## isitme (Apr 28, 2009)

it could just be cos it's more familiar, but it's nice to listen to him weave stories whereas bill hicks doesn't really appeal in the same way

I was watching Dave Allen and Les Dawson round cesares when i was in london and it's the same. the jokes aren't exactly brilliant, but it's still enjoyable to hear normal people talking shit


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## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2009)

He was very funny but a bit of a knob. i think he'd change the knobness given time and the direction he was heading. Simple.


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## kabbes (Apr 28, 2009)

Dave Allen also seemed daring and original in the 1980s.

They were great for their time.  Comedy is mostly of its time.  There isn't much that works outside its own context.  That's why Shakespeare is so incredible.


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## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2009)

isitme said:


> it could just be cos it's more familiar, but it's nice to listen to him weave stories whereas bill hicks doesn't really appeal in the same way
> 
> I was watching Dave Allen and Les Dawson round cesares when i was in london and it's the same. the jokes aren't exactly brilliant, but it's still enjoyable to hear normal people talking shit



There's my dream blown.


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## isitme (Apr 28, 2009)

butchersapron said:


> There's my dream blown.



free at last?


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## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2009)

I have another dream.


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## isitme (Apr 28, 2009)

yes we can!


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2009)

butchersapron said:


> I have another dream.


Are you in your pyjamas being chased along the corridor of your old school by giant peanuts with faces?


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## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> peanuts



close


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## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2009)

butchersapron said:


> close




It's just that apparently that was what MLK was originally going to say.


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