# Reports that SWP bookshop Bookmarks attacked



## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

SUTR is reporting that the SWP run bookshop in Central London, Bookmarks, was attacked by fascists last night.


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## emanymton (Aug 4, 2018)

Attacked as in there were people there, or attacked as in someone broke a window in the middle of the night?


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## Shechemite (Aug 4, 2018)

How do they know this alleged attack was by fascists?


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## butchersapron (Aug 4, 2018)

I saw that it was today in opening hours and a load came in shouting abuse damaging books shelves displays wall hangings posters etc


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## Shechemite (Aug 4, 2018)

Any links?


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## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

Bookmarks Twitter


> About 6:45 this evening Bookmarks Bookshop was attacked by about a dozen masked wearing fascists. They threatened staff and attempted to destroy books and other materials. Fortunately no staff were hurt. This is the true face of fascism. No Paseran!


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## Shechemite (Aug 4, 2018)

Cheers. Whilst it may well have been fash doing this, there’s nothing in the tweets to indicate who was behind it


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## Yogibear (Aug 4, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I saw that it was today in opening hours and a load came in shouting abuse damaging books shelves displays wall hangings posters etc



Well thanks for your SWP update lad.


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Bookmarks Twitter


Common in the 1970s through to the 1990s when lefty bookshops up and down the country were attacked. One of C18's first actions was to attack the Anarchist bookshop in Whitechapel in 92 (or was it 93?).
This latest one shows their confidence in operating in Central London I guess.


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Cheers. Whilst it may well have been fash doing this, there’s nothing in the tweets to indicate who was behind it


Footie firm linked to DFLA, if it was going to be anyone. (Millwall?). Championship season has kicked off so there will be "likely lads" in and around the centre from across the country.

Now cue the SWP leadership lecturing their members about the supposed evils of "Squadism"


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> How do they know this alleged attack was by fascists?


Good point....maybe it was the LibDems?


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## Yogibear (Aug 4, 2018)

Or Swappies who had lost contact with the rest of us...


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## Shechemite (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Good point....maybe it was the LibDems?



Well if the Swaps say it was fash it must be


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Well if the Swaps say it was fash it must be


I know a "false flag" could be staged to illicit support and gain sympathy on the wider Left but that's just not the SWP's style. They are too boring and conservative to do something like that.
Given the current environment they probably were turned over. Their security has always been piss


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## Shechemite (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> I know a "false flag" could be staged to illicit support and gain sympathy on the wider Left but that's just not the SWP's style. They are too boring and conservative to do something like that.
> Given the current environment they probably were turned over. Their security has always been piss



Or anti-SWP left, random hooligans etc


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## tedsplitter (Aug 4, 2018)

My copy of Cliff's 'State Capitalism in Russia' has a sticker in the front stating that it was salvaged from a fascist firebomb attack on the SWP's bookshop in Birmingham in the 1970s.


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## tim (Aug 4, 2018)

Not much effusive comradely outpouring of solidarity, so far.


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Or anti-SWP left, random hooligans etc


Anti SWP left ? Very much doubt it.....random hoolies? Hoolies yes....random, no... The DFLA are composed of hooligan firms and they know the SWP are behind their main adversaries at their demos , SUTR, so they probably wound up some Millwall to attack the bookshop. Most likely scenario but hardly earth shattering. Feel sorry for the young staff in the bookshop. The SWP do nothing to protect them


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## bimble (Aug 4, 2018)

Probably not relevant at all but quite a lot of anti swp stickers round here these past few months ( saying about the delta thing & that stand up to racism is the same people etc).


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## sealion (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Footie firm linked to DFLA, if it was going to be anyone. (Millwall?). Championship season has kicked off so there will be "likely lads" in and around the centre from across the country.


Boro, charlton, Brentford and Luton in London earlier, or even a firm that didn't have a game. West ham were out earlier looking for a row. Millwall had more urgent stuff to deal with and i doubt smashing up a book shop is high up there list.


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## tedsplitter (Aug 4, 2018)

tim said:


> Not much effusive comradely outpouring of solidarity, so far.


No great love for the rump-SWP but for avoidance of doubt despite all the shit from recent years, solidarity against fascist attacks is pretty much automatic.


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## sealion (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> so they probably wound up some Millwall


Why are you pinning this on Millwall? Just because they played at home today?


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

tedsplitter said:


> My copy of Cliff's 'State Capitalism in Russia' has a sticker in the front stating that it was salvaged from a fascist firebomb attack on the SWP's bookshop in Birmingham in the 1970s.


Always thought the best use for that book was for kindling


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## Wilf (Aug 4, 2018)

tim said:


> Not much effusive comradely outpouring of solidarity, so far.


Hnnnnn.. ghhhhhh…. _I'm trying_. Goddammit, I wish you'd given me some notice!


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

sealion said:


> Why are you pinning this on Millwall? Just becuse they played at home today?


Match turned out at 5:00pm and the attack happened at 6:45pm....Not got a railway timetable on me but you do the math.
Millwall are one of the bigger groups in the DFLA. Along, ironically,  with West Ham.


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## Yogibear (Aug 4, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I saw that it was today in opening hours and a load came in shouting abuse damaging books shelves displays wall hangings posters etc



It couldn't have been easy for you what with your big online presence here. Did you take them on?


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## sealion (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Match turned out at 5:00pm and the attack happened at 6:45pm.


They must have moonwalked over there if it took that long.


PaulOK said:


> Millwall are one of the bigger groups in the DFLA. Along, ironically, with West Ham.


So that's it for you, it must be one of those. Have you considered that it could have been be anyone/group/firm or not tied to football at all? Doesn't' these football lads set ups have people from all over? 


PaulOK said:


> Not got a railway timetable on me but you do the math.


Columbo has nothing on you


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## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

I dont want to put 2 and 2 together to make 5 but there was small group protesting  for Justice for Our Boys at Millwall today.


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Footie firm linked to DFLA, if it was going to be anyone. (Millwall?). Championship season has kicked off so there will be "likely lads" in and around the centre from across the country.
> 
> Now cue the SWP leadership lecturing their members about the supposed evils of "Squadism"



By the way Pau l S and his cronies have been posturing at demos recently, perhaps by their 'Orwellien' logic; they are the true Squadist and no one else is doing anything !


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## sealion (Aug 4, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I dont want to put 2 and 2 together to make 5 but there was small group protesting  for Justice for Our Boys at Millwall today.


What was that all about? Where did it happen?


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

It could also be retaliation by the Soggies/AWL after being 'turfed' away last month !
SWP "stewards" police debate | Workers' Liberty


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## emanymton (Aug 4, 2018)

Nigel said:


> By the way x and his cronies have been posturing at demos recently, perhaps by their 'Orwellien' logic; they are the true Squadist and no one else is doing anything !


Should you really be naming people like that?


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## Shechemite (Aug 4, 2018)

Yogibear said:


> It couldn't have been easy for you what with your big online presence here. Did you take them on?



Oh fuck off


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## emanymton (Aug 4, 2018)

For fucks sake this thread. The far right have attacked a left wing bookshop and people just dismiss it because it is the SWP. If this is the state we are at we deserve to get our heads smashed in.


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

Nigel said:


> It could also be retaliation by the Soggies/AWL after being 'turfed' away last month !
> SWP "stewards" police debate | Workers' Liberty


Bookmarks are saying a dozen attacked. Does the AWL even have a dozen members?
Groups liked that are always getting slapped at Marxism....never retaliated before in such an organised fashion.


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## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

sealion said:


> What was that all about? Where did it happen?


Don't think they had anything to do with it tbh. They were busy after the game collecting.Its a campaign about the death of three boys who were tragically killed by a drunk/drug driver in West London. The families allege a cover up and there have been suggestions that the passenger who wasnt charged had anti Tommy Robinson/pro ISIS stuff on his facebook and that the driver was a recently converted Muslim ie was it really a terrorist attack. Its been completely hijacked by the far right and weirdo Pendragon types and two of the parents are active TR supporters.


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Bookmarks are saying a dozen attacked. Does the AWL even have a dozen members?
> Groups liked that are always getting slapped at Marxism....never retaliated before in such an organised fashion.


They could have hired or coaxed the Jewish Defence League !


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

sealion said:


> They must have moonwalked over there if it took that long.
> 
> So that's it for you, it must be one of those. Have you considered that it could have been be anyone/group/firm or not tied to football at all? Doesn't' these football lads set ups have people from all over?
> 
> Columbo has nothing on you



Bookmarks think they know the people responsible and will update soon.

P.S. I'm more Miss Marple


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## Yogibear (Aug 4, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Oh fuck off



ok to be fair I couldn't care less about a trot bookshop.


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

Nigel said:


> By the way Pau l Sille tt and his cronies have been posturing at demos recently, perhaps by their 'Orwellien' logic; they are the true Squadist and no one else is doing anything !



Wasn't that guy very close to Delta and a former fascist himself?

SWP’s Marxism 2016. We Publish Some of the ‘List of Shame’.

_"At the start of 2013, the SWP conference narrowly approved the disputes committee report; from then on large parts of the organisation operated a loyalty test: if you were willing to back Smith, you could remain in the party. if not, you were told to leave. The atmosphere, at its worst, was as hostile as could be. Members of Smith’s personal anti-fascist bodyguard, men in the late 40s, spat in the faces of a woman in her 20s who disagreed with them. Smith’s supporters threatened to beat up another young, male critic. People were silenced, jeered, told to their faces to leave."_


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## tedsplitter (Aug 4, 2018)

FWIW that spitting incident was not the person named, unless l am mistaken, and he's not a former fascist, to my knowledge. Although of course many good anti-fascists over the years have come over from the other side. Also the point about naming people is a sound one, probably a good idea for people to edit their posts, since you do have that option.


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## ska invita (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> . Feel sorry for the young staff in the bookshop. The SWP do nothing to protect them


What do you think can be done by way of protection?



Yogibear said:


> ok to be fair I couldn't care less about a trot bookshop.


Can you hurry up and get banned please. Stop holding back.


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

tedsplitter said:


> FWIW that spitting incident was not the person named, unless l am mistaken, and he's not a former fascist, to my knowledge. Although of course many good anti-fascists over the years have come over from the other side. Also the point about naming people is a sound one, probably a good idea for people to edit their posts, since you do have that option.


He is on an SWPTV YouTube video from a Marxism meeting on fascism stating he was a former fascist.


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

ska invita said:


> What do you think can be done by way of protection?



A door entry system on that shop may be a start. At present walking into there is like walking into Starbucks.
With the fascists basically regarding central London as home turf now being in Bloomsbury is no protection anymore


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 4, 2018)

emanymton said:


> For fucks sake this thread. The far right have attacked a left wing bookshop and people just dismiss it because it is the SWP. If this is the state we are at we deserve to get our heads smashed in.



This.


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Wasn't that guy very close to Delta and a former fascist himself?
> 
> SWP’s Marxism 2016. We Publish Some of the ‘List of Shame’.
> 
> _"At the start of 2013, the SWP conference narrowly approved the disputes committee report; from then on large parts of the organisation operated a loyalty test: if you were willing to back Smith, you could remain in the party. if not, you were told to leave. The atmosphere, at its worst, was as hostile as could be. Members of Smith’s personal anti-fascist bodyguard, men in the late 40s, spat in the faces of a woman in her 20s who disagreed with them. Smith’s supporters threatened to beat up another young, male critic. People were silenced, jeered, told to their faces to leave."_


More than likely, he's probably Head Honcho of SUTR/UAF now & recently posing the part !


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

tedsplitter said:


> Although of course many good anti-fascists over the years have come over from the other side.



Yeah, I have known a few of those, but in my experience, while the particulars of their politics may have done a 180, their thuggishness, hackishness and aggressiveness have remained pretty constant....in my experience. I have never totally trusted people who flip their politics whilst being an adult. Points to an inner emptiness.


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## Rob Ray (Aug 4, 2018)

sealion said:


> They must have moonwalked over there if it took that long.



43 minutes on the Tube says Google, time enough for a few beers to make it seem like a good idea.


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

bimble said:


> Probably not relevant at all but quite a lot of anti swp stickers round here these past few months ( saying about the delta thing & that stand up to racism is the same people etc).



well they'd be right then !


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> A door entry system on that shop may be a start. At present walking into there is like walking into Starbucks.
> With the fascists basically regarding central London as home turf now being in Bloomsbury is no protection anymore



Door entry systems for left wing bookshops is a bit of an admission of failure. And unwelcoming.


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## agricola (Aug 4, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Don't think they had anything to do with it tbh. They were busy after the game collecting.Its a campaign about the death of three boys who were tragically killed by a drunk/drug driver in West London. The families allege a cover up and there have been suggestions that the passenger who wasnt charged had anti Tommy Robinson/pro ISIS stuff on his facebook and that the driver was a recently converted Muslim ie was it really a terrorist attack. Its been completely hijacked by the far right and weirdo Pendragon types and two of the parents are active TR supporters.




This is nothing to do with the bookshop attack but of all the verminous things that the TR lot have done, this is probably the worst.  That families who have had to go through what they have - including seeing someone get what really was a joke sentence* -, been massively let down and then have that lot drip poison into their ears as well makes my blood boil. 

* this is not to blame the judge, who probably gave towards the maximum of what they could give for a guilty plea (the bloke got three lots of 13 years concurrently, and disqualified for 13 years 6 months), its more to make the point that successive Governments have let drivers kill multiple people and not face appropriate sanctions for far too long.  Those sentences, indeed all sentences for deaths due to dangerous driving / drink driving, should be consecutive.


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## Rob Ray (Aug 4, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Door entry systems for left wing bookshops is a bit of an admission of failure. And unwelcoming.



Also largely impractical — all you need to do is wait for one person to walk up and get buzzed through then pile in. Retail spaces just have a lot of people walk in and out, it's not possible to run a business and be entirely secure in that way.


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## sealion (Aug 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> 43 minutes on the Tube says Google, time enough for a few beers to make it seem like a good idea.


And buy some masks, sit in a pub on camera then do the business. Fuck knows how they had the time to have a punch up with boro before all this. Definitley Millwall then.


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Door entry systems for left wing bookshops is a bit of an admission of failure. And unwelcoming.


Maybe but the far right are resurgent on the streets. They are not doing much at the ballot box at present so if you are a street movement you need shit for your street activists to do. Attacking lefty bookshops is "shit for your activists to do". We have been here before .


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## ska invita (Aug 4, 2018)

PRESS RELEASE: Far right thugs attack TUC backed socialist bookshop
Has some details in it


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> He is on an SWPTV YouTube video from a Marxism meeting on fascism stating he was a former fascist.


On a personal level I've found him to be a reasonably nice guy !
He is one of the individuals many in now defunct ISN claimed to be bullying and intimidating towards members & close to 'Comrade Delta' !


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Also largely impractical — all you need to do is wait for one person to walk up and get buzzed through then pile in. Retail spaces just have a lot of people walk in and out, it's not possible to run a business and be entirely secure in that way.



Are they a business? They would hardly sell enough books to pay for the sky high rent on that place (it is in the centre of one of the most expensive cities in the world). 

That shop is kept going from donations and money from its parent party (and we all know SWP funding is notoriously opaque.....the quickest way to get expelled from the SWP is to ask about the money)


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

ska invita said:


> PRESS RELEASE: Far right thugs attack TUC backed socialist bookshop
> Has some details in it


Hmm!


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## ska invita (Aug 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Also largely impractical — all you need to do is wait for one person to walk up and get buzzed through then pile in. Retail spaces just have a lot of people walk in and out, it's not possible to run a business and be entirely secure in that way.


Agree....
Ultimately there is nothing you can do to make a shop attack proof


PaulOK said:


> Are they a business? They would hardly sell enough books to pay for the sky high rent on that place (it is in the centre of one of the most expensive cities in the world).
> 
> That shop is kept going from donations and money from its parent party (and we all know SWP funding is notoriously opaque.....the quickest way to get expelled from the SWP is to ask about the money)



This really shouldn't be a thread for SWP beef


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

ska invita said:


> PRESS RELEASE: Far right thugs attack TUC backed socialist bookshop
> Has some details in it



Reads like a bit of a stunt ....an alt right "situationist prank" almost

I assume the windows are intact so maybe it is a fuss about nothing. Apologies to Millwall .


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## ska invita (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Reads like a bit of a stunt ....an alt right "situationist prank" almost
> 
> I assume the windows are intact so maybe it is a fuss about nothing. Apologies to Millwall .


a prank? yeah it could've been worse but i wouldnt  call it fuss about nothing


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## PaulOK (Aug 4, 2018)

ska invita said:


> a prank? yeah it could've been worse but i wouldnt  call it fuss about nothing



They were mean to an Abraham Leon book


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> They were mean to an Abraham Leon book


Lol
More proof it was the Soggies/AWL !
(joke)


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## ska invita (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> They were mean to an Abraham Leon book


No, they intimidated and scared staff and customers. If 12 masked cunts ran into my place of work I'd be having nightmares from the shock 

Just as with the anarchist bookfair fall out incidents like this show how many people on the left have zero understanding of the concept of solidarity. It's eye opening to me.


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## sealion (Aug 4, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Apologies to Millwall


No worries. It gets my back up when we are dragged into things these things unfairly. No doubt we have people involved in the fla or whatever groups doing these marches, as do most clubs. We have plenty at our place that don't support that shit and will stand against it. I mentioned on another thread about polish and russian hoolies turning up at ours and getting vocal, monkey chants etc and leaving far right stickers about, they got warned once, ignored the warning, took a severe beating and fucked off never to be seen since. It's a worry seeing this stuff rear it's head again at football, but thankfully it's not the eighties anymore, so it's not tolerated but challenged by the majority.


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

How much genuine Solidarity, not Opportunistic Backstabbing have S W P shown others in the past !

If they were genuinely attacked by 'Fascists' ! :
Reluctant Solidarity !


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

sealion said:


> No worries. It gets my back up when we are dragged into things these things unfairly. No doubt we have people involved in the fla or whatever groups doing these marches, as do most clubs. We have plenty at our place that don't support that shit and will stand against it. I mentioned on another thread about polish and russian hoolies turning up at ours and getting vocal, monkey chants etc and leaving far right stickers about, they got warned once, ignored the warning, took a severe beating and fucked off never to be seen since. It's a worry seeing this stuff rear it's head again at football, but thankfully it's not the eighties anymore, so it's not tolerated but challenged by the majority.


Are 'Millwall Massive' still going or have you/they changed the name(s) of your firm !
Have you had any info about far right/ D F L A infiltration ?


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## Rob Ray (Aug 4, 2018)

Nigel said:


> How much genuine Solidarity, not Opportunistic Backstabbing have S W P shown others in the past !



Do as you would be done by though innit, solidarity doesn't work if we only do it for people who behave themselves.


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## Patteran (Aug 4, 2018)

ska invita said:


> PRESS RELEASE: Far right thugs attack TUC backed socialist bookshop
> Has some details in it



Trump mask & weird placard definitely makes it sound more alt right crank than football. I've not heard the phrase 'B ritish B olshevik C ult' before, but a quick google throws up a similar piece of nonsense from a right wing youtube favourite. Rotten for the staff & customers, & worrying as a harbinger.


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Do as you would be done by though innit, solidarity doesn't work if we only do it for people who behave themselves.


Agree, if Zionist Federation or some group of loony evangelical Christians or Clerical Islamists were attacked you should still show 'solidarity' reluctantly but not sing their praises !


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## sealion (Aug 4, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Are 'Millwall Massive' still going


Not heard of them


Nigel said:


> or have you/they changed the name(s) of your firm !


It's more a youth thing now with the mobs, very small numbers and pre arranged away from the ground. The old boys only come out for certain fixtures if at all, often as a show of strength knowing fuck all will happen ( old bill have so many grasses working for them) it hard to get anything big organised. 


Nigel said:


> Have you had any info about far right/ D F L A infiltration ?


Not at our place no. There's a lot of black and turkish blokes in our mob amongst others, it wouldn't go down well


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

sealion said:


> Not heard of them
> 
> 
> 
> Not at our place no. There's a lot of black and turkish blokes in our mob amongst others, it wouldn't go down well


Good to hear !


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## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

Patteran said:


> Trump mask & weird placard definitely makes it sound more alt right crank than football. I've not heard the phrase 'B ritish B olshevik C ult' before, but a quick google throws up a similar piece of nonsense from a right wing youtube favourite. Rotten for the staff & customers, & worrying as a harbinger.


British Bolshevik Cult =BBC ? Yes very strange , at first it sounded like they were all masked up but  really need a proper report. If it was proper fash someone would have got chinned.


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## Nigel (Aug 4, 2018)

Patteran said:


> Trump mask & weird placard definitely makes it sound more alt right crank than football. I've not heard the phrase 'B ritish B olshevik C ult' before, but a quick google throws up a similar piece of nonsense from a right wing youtube favourite. Rotten for the staff & customers, & worrying as a harbinger.


Heard the phrase 'B ritish B olshevik C ult' used briefly in one of P aul G oddard's you tube 'exposes' 


Yeah 
If it wasn't staged sound definitely more like Al t. R ight than football hoolies; they would have done a better job of it !


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## Rob Ray (Aug 4, 2018)

It's been around a while online, crops up on Telegraph comments from the sort of twitchy colonel moustache type who reads too many columns about how the BBC is a blight on the pristine private media landscape.


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## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

It would have been some people who had attended this picket of Facebook over them banning Alex Jones. You can see the  placards  here( 37 mins best) , they actually say Bolshevik Brainwashing Cult and the Trump mask is around 45 mins ( tbh I have only glanced at this as its so fucking boring):



So not DFLA/ Millwall but a light weight altright UKIP type grouplet .Couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.


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## Nigel (Aug 5, 2018)

Yogibear said:


> ok to be fair I couldn't care less about a trot bookshop.


To be honest, it is a really good 'Trot Bookshop' and the staff are always accommodating & helpful !


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## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2018)

If the cops show any interest they shouldn't have any trouble being as they'd easily be able to follow these people's back trail as The39thStep  has shown and subsequent movements from CCTV. If they're interested...


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## DaveCinzano (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> It would have been some people who had attended this picket of Facebook over them banning Alex Jones. You can see the  placards  here( 37 mins best) , they actually say Bolshevik Brainwashing Cult and the Trump mask is around 45 mins ( tbh I have only glanced at this as its so fucking boring):




We salute your indefatigability! 

The ‘Zuck off Cuckerberg’ hints at a lovely nexus of MRA/PUA losers and the usual suspects


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## PaulOK (Aug 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> If the cops show any interest they shouldn't have any trouble being as they'd easily be able to follow these people's back trail as The39thStep  has shown and subsequent movements from CCTV. If they're interested...


The cops wouldn't be interested and anyway the SWP don't believe in going to the Police.....They prefer to handle things internally


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## emanymton (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> The cops wouldn't be interested and anyway the SWP don't believe in going to the Police.....They prefer to handle things internally


LOL the far right are attacking left wing bookshop. Lets make jokes about the SWP LOL.

It doesn't even work. You can't handle someting internally that involves people outside your organisation.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2018)

emanymton said:


> LOL the far right are attacking left wing bookshop. Lets make jokes about the SWP LOL.
> 
> It doesn't even work. You can't handle someting internally that involves people outside your organisation.


It's wicked to mock the afflicted


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## danny la rouge (Aug 5, 2018)

I'm no fan of the SWP, but cheering on the far right because of that would be fucking childish at best.


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## Nigel (Aug 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm no fan of the SWP, but cheering on the far right because of that would be fucking childish at best.


It's not a case of cheering on.
The SWP are going to use this hysterically in the process of building their shitty cult !
It's a case of not falling into that trap !

Of course showing Solidarity, with anyone attacked by fascists (or as is looking more likely, rudely harassed by alt. right geeks) is an imperative obligation, but on our terms and some more reluctantly than others !


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## danny la rouge (Aug 5, 2018)

Nigel said:


> The SWP are going to use this hysterically in the process of building their shitty cult !


That's perfectly true. And they _are_ a rape-apologist cult. 

But is very important not to fall into the alternative trap of dismissing far right actions as either nothing or deserved.


----------



## Nigel (Aug 5, 2018)

emanymton said:


> LOL the far right are attacking left wing bookshop. Lets make jokes about the SWP LOL.
> 
> It doesn't even work. You can't handle someting internally that involves people outside your organisation.


Perhaps Paul is making some points as to how S W P operate !
They can make more out of this 'attack' by their own subjective interpretation of events than that of evidence collected and portrayed by the police and authorities, as well as pointing out how this lying, bullying misogynistic cult operates !


----------



## Nigel (Aug 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> That's perfectly true. And they _are_ a rape-apologist cult.
> 
> But is very important not to fall into the alternative trap of dismissing far right actions as either nothing or deserved.


Agreed, but on our terms, not theirs.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 5, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Agreed, but on our terms, not theirs.


Always.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Perhaps Paul is making a point as to how S W P operate !
> They can make more out of this 'attack' by their own subjective interpretation of events than that of evidence collected and portrayed by the police and authorities, as well as pointing out how this lying, bullying misogynistic cult operates !


Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if there had been attacks on SWP paper sales which we've not heard of, seems a bit odd to me to have a pop at bm without any preliminary actions


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> So not DFLA/ Millwall but a light weight altright UKIP type grouplet .Couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.


Good digging.
Not sure thats conclusive proof though - there are a lot of trump masks out there, and that BBC phrase will be known beyond those few individuals. Would be good to alert Bookmarks to this and see if it matches with what eyewitnesses saw.


----------



## Nigel (Aug 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if there had been attacks on SWP paper sales which we've not heard of, seems a bit odd to me to have a pop at bm without any preliminary actions


At the end of the you tube video of Demo by alt right types opposing fb ban, didn't they say they were going for a drink, maybe they just decided to harass people in BM there and then, doesn't sound like a particularly organised attack !

Yeah, attacking paper sellers is, so I'm told traditional 'blooding in' initiation of Far Right/Fascist/Nazis groups, but would Alt. Right right use or fit into this 'modus operandi' ?


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

Nigel said:


> At the end of the you tube video of Demo by alt right types opposing fb ban, didn't they say they were going for a drink, maybe they just decided to harass people in BM there and then, doesn't sound like a particularly organised attack !
> 
> Yeah, attacking paper sellers is, so I'm told traditional 'blooding in' initiation of Far Right/Fascist/Nazis groups, but would Alt. Right right use or fit into this 'modus operandi' ?


i didnt realise this video was from a demo yesterday...is that for certain? does the timeline match up?


----------



## Nigel (Aug 5, 2018)

ska invita said:


> i didnt realise this video was from a demo yesterday...is that for certain? does the timeline match up?


Their are a few people on Twitter claiming that it does !
E.G.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 5, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Agreed, but on our terms, not theirs.


My way of drawing this distinction is to say I'd turn up to defend the shop if there was going to be a far right attack or demo there - or something similar if there was to be a far right attack on a swappie in their home - but not much else. No donations, no standing with them in publicity shots, no messages of solidarity.  They might still be of the left, but the delta thing goes beyond even rape apologism e.g. Galloway. It was a case, literally, of defending an (alleged) rapist and saving the organisation ahead of common decency and defending victims. Even more, a process of demonising those who stood in solidarity with the victims. And underlying all that, a vile political mentality that could allow you to do that.  All well rehearsed, but relevant here because it's fair to say there are limits to solidarity when it comes to some groups I certainly wouldn't have exerted too much solidarity with Gerry Healy.

Anyway, a better way of putting all that is that in the swp case it's about opposing the far-right/alt-right weirdos rather than, in this case, who their victims are.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Their are a few people on Twitter claiming that it does !
> E.G.



Jo seems to be able to name several of the people (in the subsequent twitter thread posts)...bold to say they were definitely the ones who went on to bookmarks though...impressive if correct


----------



## bimble (Aug 5, 2018)

blimey. the banner & placards in that video lead to here :


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Jo seems to be able to name many of the people (in the subsequent twitter thread posts)


Mainly because the organisers posted a speakers list .MBGA is essentially a grouping within UKIP, they are incapable of any physical action . If it was them and they went into the bookshop after a few shandies it would hardly have been part of a return to the suburbs strategy.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Mainly because the organisers posted a speakers list


the perfect crime!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Mainly because the organisers posted a speakers list .MBGA is essentially a grouping within UKIP, they are incapable of any physical action . If it was them and they went into the bookshop after a few shandies it would hardly have been part of a return to the suburbs strategy.


The master criminal always makes one fatal error...


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Tbh this lot couldnt intimidate anyone and they dont really even attract people who could intimidate anyone. Its not their modus operandi .
The Bookmarks statement on Facebook says this:


> 'On Saturday evening around 6:45 just as we were closing, Bookmarks was attacked by around a dozen mask wearing fascists. They attempted to intimidate staff and customers and to destroy books and materials. Fortunately no one was hurt.


This gave me the impression that it was a masked up gang ie scarves/balaclavas/etc 

However another statement says 





> Some carried placards reading “British Bolshevik Cult” and one of them wore a Trump Mask. Books and magazines were ripped and torn, with displays wrecked.



If its the latter quote then the likelihood  of another group wearing a Trump mask and carrying these sorts of placards is pretty remote which makes me wonder if the first quote is somewhat disingenuous and over egging the pudding.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

Out of interest is what they did illegal do we expect (based on the lesser egged version of events)?


----------



## Patteran (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Mainly because the organisers posted a speakers list .MBGA is essentially a grouping within UKIP, they are incapable of any physical action . If it was them and they went into the bookshop after a few shandies it would hardly have been part of a return to the suburbs strategy.



It's not about being butch, & I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but you might hope for a bit more vim from members of an explicitly revolutionary organisation. My mother in law & her sisters have always had fairground stalls, market stalls, shops - damage their stock & you'll get a pricing gun round the head &/or seen off with a verbal blast loaded with the authority of experience. Same goes for any cornershop in the country. MBGA arent currently a physical force outfit - but it seems they've links/shared history with older fascists, because the choice of target is straight out of the 70s/80s/early 90s playbook.


----------



## belboid (Aug 5, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Out of interest is what they did illegal do we expect (based on the lesser egged version of events)?


Threatening behaviour and criminal damage, I’d have thought


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Quick change subject but this is an intersting insight from Lucy Brown ( especially re the monetisation and income )
Tommy Robinson winds up bigots and the cash floods in


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Patteran said:


> It's not about being butch, & I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but you might hope for a bit more vim from members of an explicitly revolutionary organisation. My mother in law & her sisters have always had fairground stalls, market stalls, shops - damage their stock & you'll get a pricing gun round the head &/or seen off with a verbal blast loaded with the authority of experience. Same goes for any cornershop in the country. MBGA arent currently a physical force outfit - but it seems they've links/shared history with older fascists, because the choice of target is straight out of the 70s/80s/early 90s playbook.


The MGBA flirted with some older far righters but they draw the line at fascists and nazis , might be a thin line but its a line. They are UKIp members. In fact they recently got threatened by some other far righters because they accused them of associating with Jack Sen. 
If it was MNGA then its up in the air for me as to whether this was a planned attack.Lets face it who plans an attack on a book shop wearing a giant size Trump head?  Need a bit of digging on locations and time frames.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 5, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, a better way of putting all that is that in the swp case it's about opposing the far-right/alt-right weirdos rather than, in this case, who their victims are.


Agreed.


----------



## Patteran (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> The MGBA flirted with some older far righters but they draw the line at fascists and nazis , might be a thin line but its a line. They are UKIp members. In fact they recently got threatened by some other far righters because they accused them of associating with Jack Sen.
> If it was MNGA then its up in the air for me as to whether this was a planned attack.Lets face it who plans an attack on a book shop wearing a giant size Trump head?  Need a bit of digging on locations and time frames.



Right. So it's irresponsible of the bookshop & its parent organisation to be framing this as a vicious & effective fascist book burning. And bordering on play-pretend fantasy to promote consequent social media threads full of overwrought 'No Pasaran!' responses.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Patteran said:


> Right. So it's irresponsible of the bookshop & its parent organisation to be framing this as a vicious & effective fascist book burning. And bordering on play-pretend fantasy to promote consequent social media threads full of overwrought 'No Pasaran!' responses.



Depends on what really happened. Tbh I might be jumping to conclusions based on what was said in one quote. It might be that the other quote is more accurate.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Quick change subject but this is an intersting insight from Lucy Brown ( especially re the monetisation and income )
> Tommy Robinson winds up bigots and the cash floods in



Any chance of a link to that that isn't behind a pay wall?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

It just looks like an opportunistic (probably half cut) load of bollocks. Not pre planned or particularly vicious. Still, an indication that these people regard the Left as the enemy.


----------



## classicdish (Aug 5, 2018)

I have just spent the last few hours watching MBGA (and some freetommy and pro-trump videos)  and here's my uninformed quick take on things (sorry my attempt to break the links failed!  )

1.  I also get the strong impression that 





> this lot couldnt intimidate anyone and they dont really even attract people who could intimidate anyone. Its not their modus operandi


. For example they  seemed terrified and almost in tears as the police got them safely out of Cambridge: 

2. It is however a bit 'suspicious' that their placard/flyer appeared, and there was a trump mask (one also featured on their demo). Maybe a bit *too* suspicious? (You can see the guy with the mask join them and then put the mask on here at 39'38" onwards). 

The there are two other things I noticed from their previous videos:

3. They seem to have made some kind of 'link' to the DFLA - at least they made a point (on 27th May) of promoting the DFLA 2nd June Manchester event ... you can hear a (presumably DFLA?) person prompting them off camera with the dates etc at the end of this video: see 2'38" 

4. They have had a recent "beef" (threats etc) with the "Justice For Our Boys" lot:

The MBGA version: 

The other side's version:


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

Patteran said:


> Right. So it's irresponsible of the bookshop & its parent organisation to be framing this as a vicious & effective fascist book burning. And bordering on play-pretend fantasy to promote consequent social media threads full of overwrought 'No Pasaran!' responses.


There might well have been a bit of over egging in the immediate aftermath.... Quite normal for people to over blow things when the adrenalin is pumping, and yeah it could've been a lot worse, but the scale of violence isn't the main point, it's a point of principle I think. Anyhow, im glad it's on the lower end of the scale.  I think calling it play pretend fantasy is harsh


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> If its the latter quote then the likelihood  of another group wearing a Trump mask and carrying these sorts of placards is pretty remote which makes me wonder if the first quote is somewhat disingenuous and over egging the pudding.



The original report was straights after so maybe evidence of people being a bit shaken more than of deliberately hyping nothing much.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Any chance of a link to that that isn't behind a pay wall?



video

*Tommy Robinson winds up bigots and the cash floods in*
A former aide to the far-right figurehead reveals that his ragtag group lacks organisation but has money to burn

*Andrew Gilligan*
August 5 2018, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

Share
Tommy Robinson, the far-right leader, was bankrolled until recently by a US tech billionaire whose company’s British clients include the supermarket giant Asda.

Robert Shillman, founder and chairman of the Nasdaq-listed multinational Cognex, helped to pay Robinson’s high-five-figure salary, in the latest example of American cash flowing into the British hard right. The disclosure comes as Robinson’s former assistant, also paid by a Shillman-funded group, told The Sunday Times that the anti-Islam activist practised a form of “panto journalism” that was “leading people down a dark path”.

In the first interview by any insider, Lucy Brown, who worked closely alongside Robinson until three months ago, said: “I thought genuinely that I was joining the side that told the truth and I’ve come to realise that it’s not. It’s just about getting [YouTube] views and retweets. This is a business and your outrage, valid as it is, will be monetised as such.”

Brown, who was fired after an argument about a Muslim booked to speak at one of Robinson’s rallies, was part of an often warring inner circle that included a middle-class gay couple, international leaders of the far right, a former underwear model and Celebrity Big Brother contestant, and rougher-hewn figures from Robinson’s time as leader of the English Defence League (EDL).

She said Robinson “used to be kind of fun, but he got a bit of a diva attitude after a while and was letting more EDL figures cloud his judgment. I’ve just reread Peter Pan and there’s so many similarities. You can be around as long as you still worship him, but when you grow up, then you’re out.” Brown added that she was taking legal action over unpaid wages that she says she is owed.

Life with “Team Tommy” was chaotic, Brown said: “It was like being like a firefighter — always waiting for the next Facebook message and we’d be off to Manchester or Poland straight away, sometimes before a real plan had been drawn up. We’d be sleeping in the car and eating in service stations.”

Several of the supposed scandals that Robinson sought to expose fall down on closer examination. “I used to think, foolishly, that when he went home he was doing his research and putting case files together,” Brown said. “He doesn’t, he just goes home and eats crisps and looks himself up on Twitter.”

Emotive YouTube and social media content bring in donations. In one recent video Robinson suggested that the deaths of three teenage boys hit by a drunk driver in Hayes, west London, in January was a terror attack “covered up” by the police and media — apparently based on the fact that the driver, who has a Hindu name, was Asian.

In a video recorded in a Muslim area of Manchester after last year’s bombing, Robinson said: “In these houses are enemy combatants who want to kill you, maim you and destroy you.”

He was freed on appeal last week after being jailed for filming people at a trial of alleged sex offenders and broadcasting the footage on a Facebook live stream. His supporters claim he was a “political prisoner” silenced by the authorities for trying to reveal the truth about Muslim sex offending.

Brown said this narrative was “whipping people up into a frenzy and I worry that some are on the cusp of acting out their frustrations against Muslims as a result. I’ve never seen this before, not in the way it’s playing out now. People are at breaking point — we must not push them further for the sake of money or fame.”

She was one of a handful of people closest to Robinson, name-checked in his videos and who saw him most days along with two other paid British staff, Caolan Robertson and George Llewelyn-John. Robertson and Llewelyn-John, who are open about their gay relationship, shared a flat in an expensive block in Chelsea, west London, before moving to Bedfordshire to be closer to Robinson.

All four, including Robinson himself, were employees of The Rebel Media, a Toronto-based far-right website, extensively funded by Shillman, which has employed a number of Britons, including the writer and former Apprentice contestant Katie Hopkins, who once described migrants as “cockroaches”.

Robinson was a “Shillman fellow” which the Rebel’s chief executive, Ezra Levant, said meant that the tech billionaire provided “support” for Robinson’s salary. Robinson was initially paid between £5,000 and £6,000 a month by The Rebel, rising to £8,000 a month, equivalent to nearly £100,000 a year, Brown said.

The three assistants were paid up to £2,500 a month each. Levant refused to confirm or deny the figures last night, saying it would not be “appropriate for me to disclose what we paid former employees”.

Shillman, 72, uses his salary and shareholding in Cognex, which he founded in 1981, to finance right-wing causes. He is on the board of the David Horowitz Freedom Centre, based in California, a “school for political warfare” against the “fifth column” and “enemy within”.

The organisation, described as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Centre, based in Alabama, also employs Robert Spencer, an anti-Muslim polemicist banned from the UK. Cognex, which makes advanced scanners and sensors, has a substantial operation in Britain. UK users of its technology include Asda, Nissan and the drug giant AstraZeneca.

Shillman and Cognex did not respond to requests for comment.

Robinson and the others left The Rebel last year amid a row over money, with Robertson accusing Levant of profiteering by getting contributors to raise “money [The Rebel] didn’t need”.

Levant in turn accused Robertson and Llewelyn-John of “blackmail”. Both sides deny each other’s claims. Robinson’s departure from The Rebel did not much affect his income, according to Brown, with huge sums flooding in from his own crowdfunding website and the three staff employed directly by Robinson from the proceeds.

“George and Caolan would off- handedly say, oh, we’ve got £100,000 in donations now,” Brown said. “I think he’s doing OK.”

Raheem Kassam, a Robinson ally, also confirmed the figure. Joe Mulhall, of the anti-racist group Hope not Hate, believes that even £100,000 may be a substantial underestimate.

Such material has brought Robinson an affluent lifestyle, living with his wife, Jenna, and their three young children in a £500,000 house in a Bedfordshire village. The family is currently on a two-week holiday in Tenerife, the second holiday they have spent on the Canary island in the past four months.

On his earlier trip Robinson stayed part of the time with Lutz Bachmann, founder of the German racist group Pegida and a personal friend, who has a home in Tenerife.

Robertson and Llewelyn-John appear to be in conflict with older members of “Team Tommy” from EDL days including his cousin, Kevin Carroll, and his long-standing PA, Hel Gower, jostling on social media over who knows Robinson best and competing to be the first with new developments in the imprisonment saga.

A recent addition is Jasmine Lennard, a former lingerie model and a Celebrity Big Brother contestant — until axed for “Islamophobic” tweets. She describes herself on Twitter as a “close friend” of Robinson who “regularly comes round my home” and claims to have been visited by an “MI5 anti-terrorism unit” to “intimidate” her from seeing him.

Slightly older fans include the Ukip peer Lord Pearson, who took Robinson to lunch at the House of Lords in the spring and introduced him to the party’s leader, Gerard Batten. Pearson, Batten, Kassam and Levant were all thanked in Robinson’s first post-prison video.

“Robinson appears to have brought together a lot of people on the far right,” said Mulhall. “They all want a piece of the action.”

*Who’s who in Team Tommy?*






A right bunch of rebels: clockwise from top left, Katie Hopkins, George Llewelyn-John, Jasmine Leonard, Ezra Levant, Robert Shillman and Caolan RobertsonJohn Sciullu/Getty Images for Politicon; Ian West/PA; Jeff McIntosh/The Canadian Press
*Katie Hopins*
Former columnist, radio presenter and contestant on The Apprentice who described refugees as “cockroaches”. Now part of Robinson’s former employer, The Rebel Media.

*Jasmine Lennard*
Former Gossard bra model who was dropped from Celebrity Big Brother after being accused of Islamophobic comments and describes herself as a “close friend” of Robinson.

*Robert Shillman*
Founder, chairman and chief culture officer of Nasdaq-listed Cognex Corporation and bankroller of far-right figures, including Robinson, through The Rebel Media.

*George Llewelyn-John*
Films most Robinson videos, including the one that got him jailed, and said he was “getting [Robinson] into the right direction, where he can be a little bit more mainstream”.

*Caolan Robertson*
British-born Robinson staffer, on tour in Australia and New Zealand with Canadian far-right figure Lauren Southern, whose latest booking was cancelled by the venue owner.

*Ezra Levant*
Head of The Rebel Media in Toronto, who styles himself “rebel commander”. He is a former Robinson employer and travelled to London to support him at the trial and ran his defence fund.


----------



## Patteran (Aug 5, 2018)

ska invita said:


> There might well have been a bit of over egging in the immediate aftermath.... Quite normal for people to over blow things when the adrenalin is pumping, and yeah it could've been a lot worse, but the scale of violence isn't the main point, it's a point of principle I think. Anyhow, im glad it's on the lower end of the scale.  I think calling it play pretend fantasy is harsh



Perhaps. But a minor incident, no worse than countless shopkeepers, retail workers, pub landladys, hospitality workers deal with every day, prompting Spanish Civil War slogans & the diminished form that solidarity takes when reduced to tweets, strikes me as overblown. Facsimiles of political history. And it does no one any favours other than the right, who yet again get to appear powerful.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 5, 2018)

> he just goes home and eats crisps and looks himself up on Twitter


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 5, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


>


But also,_ I'm_ Tommy Robinson?!


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


>


She also did an interview on LBC recently complaing about death threats from the far right.Used to be an arts/fashion student apparantly


----------



## emanymton (Aug 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if there had been attacks on SWP paper sales which we've not heard of, seems a bit odd to me to have a pop at bm without any preliminary actions


I have heard there hss been a lot of harassment. But stopping short of actual attacks


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

Patteran said:


> Perhaps. But a minor incident, no worse than countless shopkeepers, retail workers, pub landladys, hospitality workers deal with every day, prompting Spanish Civil War slogans & the diminished form that solidarity takes when reduced to tweets, strikes me as overblown. Facsimiles of political history. And it does no one any favours other than the right, who yet again get to appear powerful.


I hear that. Also the rush to post stuff online is often a mistake. 


I do think there is some kind of a difference between directly politically motivated violence and general yobbery. Not sure what that difference is or means though, in all honesty...there might be a lot of overlap too. Curious if anyone has any thoughts on that.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 5, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, a better way of putting all that is that in the swp case it's about opposing the far-right/alt-right weirdos rather than, in this case, who their victims are.


Quite. This isn't an attack in tge SWP as the SWP. This is an attack on them as the most visible face of the left outside the Labour party.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 5, 2018)

ska invita said:


> There might well have been a bit of over egging in the immediate aftermath.... Quite normal for people to over blow things when the adrenalin is pumping, and yeah it could've been a lot worse, but the scale of violence isn't the main point, it's a point of principle I think. Anyhow, im glad it's on the lower end of the scale.  I think calling it play pretend fantasy is harsh


If they keep getting away with low level harassment shit, how long before they step it up to something more serious?


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## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

emanymton said:


> If they keep getting away with low level harassment shit, how long before they step it up to something more serious?


True... Also there is a lot of aggro that shops like Bookmarks experience all the time that isn't newsworthy...  

Gays the Word had their windows put through recently, but that happens too regularly


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Again without wanting to leap to any conclusions ; Luke Nash- Jones latest post on his Facebook is about a children's book called My name is not refugee' which he's just seen apparantly . It happens to be sold by Bookmarks.


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## bimble (Aug 5, 2018)

If you look under the 'beliefs' tab on that people's charter / mbga website whoever wrote it comes across like maybe they (once) spent quite a bit of time in that bookshop.


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## emanymton (Aug 5, 2018)

Far-right protesters 'ransack socialist bookshop in London'

Made The Guardian.
Apart from confirming the police were called no new info .


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## Ax^ (Aug 5, 2018)

PaoloSanchez said:


> ^ Holy fuck...how did he survive without Love Island?
> 
> Some of his fuckwit supporters swarmed a communist bookshop...
> 
> ...




*stolen from the TR thread

looks like it was MBGA


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## bimble (Aug 5, 2018)

What a bunch of utter idiots . Well that’s that mystery solved cos they had to upload the video


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2018)

I was going to say it was probably FLA but now I see the video they look a bit fringe for that - maybe one or two of them are.

MBGA is more of an organising nexus than anything IMO though I could be wrong.

I said after the last Free Tommy march that getting away with shit (which they did) would lead them to escalate (which I think it has).


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## Johnny Vodka (Aug 5, 2018)

Obviously all thick as pig shit - could have been a comedy until it started getting nasty.


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## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> *stolen from the TR thread
> 
> looks like it was MBGA



I'm not usually one for assuming the far right are thick but in this case..jesus.


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## Ax^ (Aug 5, 2018)

it include people that are on a video on the front page of MBGA website





lets hid our badges and caps but post a video on youtube


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## PaoloSanchez (Aug 5, 2018)

I've "debated" RED CAP BOY a few times at Speakers Corner. He's not very bright. The last time I was there he got escorted from Speakers Corner for flying a Trump flag and complained about "freedom of speech".
Apparently he's autistic.


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## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I was going to say it was probably FLA but now I see the video they look a bit fringe for that - maybe one or two of them are.
> 
> MBGA is more of an organising nexus than anything IMO though I could be wrong.
> 
> I said after the last Free Tommy march that getting away with shit (which they did) would lead them to escalate (which I think it has).


Dont think there is any FLA there , the gobshite filming it and verbally coming over all hard is - Mark Martin ( Buska In The Park). Its just a rag taggle of middle class UKIP and some other misfits. Hardly escalation imo more like a stunt after a few pints of dutch courage shandy. In my day some of the local SWP members and their mates would have simply gone round where these people live work and shop and  terrorised those involved .


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## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I'm not usually one for assuming the far right are thick but in this case..jesus.


Drink had been taken


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## Patteran (Aug 5, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


>



“A single sentence will suffice for modern man. He fornicated and read the papers eats crisps & looks himself up on twitter'.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Dont think there is any FLA there , the gobshite filming it and verbally coming over all hard is - Mark Martin ( Buska In The Park). Its just a rag taggle of middle class UKIP and some other misfits. Hardly escalation imo more like a stunt after a few pints of dutch courage shandy. In my day some of the local SWP members and their mates would have simply gone round where these people live work and shop and  terrorised those involved .


I mean escalation in the sense that no way would they have done that a while back. (On reflection I agree that probably no actual FLA there.)


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## Yogibear (Aug 5, 2018)

Nigel said:


> To be honest, it is a really good 'Trot Bookshop' and the staff are always accommodating & helpful !



I'll take your word on that mate because I've never been there and I'm sure never will. The point I was making is that the swp would not be rushing to offer solidarity to other leftist, independent or anarchist bookshops in similar circumstances, well not unless they could score some political points out of it in their various publications. I see the whole thing has really come to nothing other than a couple of idiots shouting their mouths off and kicking over some newstands. It's a shame to say but that's what people working in shops, railway stations, and anywhere groups congregate have to deal with on a regular basis. Now if they had petrol bombed the bookshop I may be showing some solidarity.
BTW cheers for wishing me banned ska i. There's always someone who wants to ban other people isn't there.


----------



## Grump (Aug 5, 2018)

What interests me about this whole thing is how it illustrates how politics have shifted over time. When I saw the original report I immediately started thinking along the lines of what I experienced in the 80's, assuming this was a gang of nazis piling in to smash up the bookshop and batter staff and customers. However it looks more like the stuff that 4chan and the alt right do, the Kekistan, Pepe the frog wind up of the left. That sort of activism has drawn in a lot of support to the right who would not dream of getting involved in traditional street thuggery.


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2018)

A little more info in the Morning Star report:




> Mr Mortell told the Star today: “There were 12 or 13 of them. One of them was wearing a Donald Trump mask.
> 
> “They were chanting stuff about Muslims. Then they smashed our book displays. We have magazines from Unite Against Fascism. They ripped up the magazines and threw them around the shop. They made threats to return and ‘show what they can do.’
> 
> “Seven or eight of them were well-dressed, the other four of them were more like boot-boys. I recognised one of them. He’d been in a couple of weeks earlier and had shouted racist stuff.”


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I mean escalation in the sense that no way would they have done that a while back. (On reflection I agree that probably no actual FLA there.)


Well they wont be doing it again. I just think it was just an alcohol inspired how can we make a name for ourselves high jinx gloriously caught on camera. I wondered why Luke Jones had posted some gibberish conspiracy theory stuff at 0345hrs on his Facebook page. He probably hit the bottle worrying about whether or not he'd be entitled to a TV if he were jailed.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2018)

PaoloSanchez said:


> Apparently he's autistic.



I fail to see the relevance of this.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Drink had been taken



Video's been tak


The39thStep said:


> Well they wont be doing it again. I just think it was just an alcohol inspired how can we make a name for ourselves high jinx gloriously caught on camera. I wondered why Luke Jones had posted some gibberish conspiracy theory stuff at 0345hrs on his Facebook page. He probably hit the bottle worrying about whether or not he'd be entitled to a TV if he were jailed.



They've taken the video down. Plenty in that for Inspector Knacker if he so chose.


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 5, 2018)

It was hardly a big bad gang of jackbooted fascists with links to football hooligans etc it was a bunch of cosplaying alt right fuckwits.. it was hardly Kristalnacht 2 FFS 



Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> They've taken the video down. Plenty in that for Inspector Knacker if he so chose.




I imagine it was already downloaded a fair few times before they took it down. What absolute idiots.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

juice_terry said:


> It was hardly a big bad gang of jackbooted fascists with links to football hooligans etc it was a bunch of cosplaying alt right fuckwits.. it was hardly Kristalnacht 2 FFS
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk




Is anyone saying it was?


Sent from my Enigma Engine using Morse Code


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Is anyone saying it was?
> 
> 
> Sent from my Enigma Engine using Morse Code


Read the earlier posts on this thread alone .. then half the hysterical posts on Facebook had it down as a return to the 70s NF attacking bookshops etc 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Aug 5, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I fail to see the relevance of this.


Well his mate (Buska in the Park aka Mark Martin) that was filming appeared to believe it was relevant and repeated several times "he's got autism", "he is a vulnerable person" etc if you watched the vid.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 5, 2018)

First thing first. The person holding the camera/phone needs his batteries removing. _'Look at this one, look at this one...you Jew hater! OMG! You Jew hater'  _


----------



## LDC (Aug 5, 2018)

Yeah, not an 'attack' to be worried about post-event for us on here, but can imagine it was a bit more nervey if it was your quiet afternoon working in the shop that was suddenly interrupted by that.

It might be nothing more than a few idiots after a few pints winding each other up to do something 'daring' that comes to nothing, or it might slightly embolden other more handy groups to think they can do better and then try and prove they can.

Either way, it needs stamping on hard and fast, and solidarity needs expressing with those that this kind of thing happens to, whether we like them or agree with them politically or not.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2018)

PaoloSanchez said:


> Well his mate (Buska in the Park aka Mark Martin) that was filming appeared to believe it was relevant and repeated several times "he's got autism", "he is a vulnerable person" etc if you watched the vid.



Mark's a nazi, don't be like Mark.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2018)

PaoloSanchez said:


> Well his mate (Buska in the Park aka Mark Martin) that was filming appeared to believe it was relevant and repeated several times "he's got autism", "he is a vulnerable person" etc if you watched the vid.


Ah. A speakers corner YouTube cunt.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 5, 2018)

> Or anti-SWP left, random hooligans etc



you serious ? can you name a single instance of anti left violence / attack like this, like, ever ?


----------



## cantsin (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> It would have been some people who had attended this picket of Facebook over them banning Alex Jones. You can see the  placards  here( 37 mins best) , they actually say Bolshevik Brainwashing Cult and the Trump mask is around 45 mins ( tbh I have only glanced at this as its so fucking boring):
> 
> 
> 
> So not DFLA/ Millwall but a light weight altright UKIP type grouplet .Couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.




ffs, would love to see this little crew bump into the wrong lot, wrong time/place etc

eg : Steve Hedley and the RMT lot a couple of weeks back


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

cantsin said:


> ffs, would love to see this little crew bump into the wrong lot, wrong time/place etc
> 
> eg : Steve Hedley and the RMT lot a couple of weeks back



Tbh my money would be on Goldsmiths S.U safer spaces committee.


----------



## winjer (Aug 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> They've taken the video down..


Part still here Twitter. It's what's happening /DAYFORFREEDOM4/status/1026079765328027648


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Keith Flett 


> We have been here before.
> 
> In the mid-1970s in North London as a socialist and anti-fascist I rarely left the house without wearing a pair of steel toe capped Doc Martens. I still have them and they still fit but I hope more agile people can now move into the frontline.
> 
> ...


Funnily enough I remember us going round the pubs looking for them before the march and then attacking them in alleyways as they went to the meeting point


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 5, 2018)

Yogibear said:


> ok to be fair I couldn't care less about a trot bookshop.



You're joking, right?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

winjer said:


> Part still here Twitter. It's what's happening /DAYFORFREEDOM4/status/1026079765328027648


its on the Red London site


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

cantsin said:


> ffs, would love to see this little crew bump into the wrong lot, wrong time/place etc
> 
> eg : Steve Hedley and the RMT lot a couple of weeks back


Best to leave that to the AFN


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)




----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Best to leave that to the AFN



Which bit?


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 5, 2018)

juice_terry said:


> It was hardly a big bad gang of jackbooted fascists with links to football hooligans etc it was a bunch of cosplaying alt right fuckwits.. it was hardly Kristalnacht 2 FFS
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk



Ridiculous response.

A group of people happy to manhandle the books (so not just content to walk in and make arses of themselves), happy to call people pedophile lovers such that you can hear the anger spat in their voices. But because it's not devolved into violence this is not a big deal?

This is completely fucking out of order


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

Yogibear said:


> I'll take your word on that mate because I've never been there and I'm sure never will. The point I was making is that the swp would not be rushing to offer solidarity to other leftist, independent or anarchist bookshops in similar circumstances, well not unless they could score some political points out of it in their various publications. I see the whole thing has really come to nothing other than a couple of idiots shouting their mouths off and kicking over some newstands. It's a shame to say but that's what people working in shops, railway stations, and anywhere groups congregate have to deal with on a regular basis. Now if they had petrol bombed the bookshop I may be showing some solidarity.
> BTW cheers for wishing me banned ska i. There's always someone who wants to ban other people isn't there.



Pretty sure Bookmarks did express solidarity after Freedoms firebombing and in general all the left leaning bookshops look out for one another behind the scenes via the Alliance of Radical Booksellers.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 5, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Yeah, not an 'attack' to be worried about post-event for us on here, but can imagine it was a bit more nervey if it was your quiet afternoon working in the shop that was suddenly interrupted by that.
> 
> It might be nothing more than a few idiots after a few pints winding each other up to do something 'daring' that comes to nothing, or it might slightly embolden other more handy groups to think they can do better and then try and prove they can.
> 
> Either way, it needs stamping on hard and fast, and solidarity needs expressing with those that this kind of thing happens to, whether we like them or agree with them politically or not.


Whatever the reason we cannot ignore the febrile context within which this is happening. 

I find the flippant answers on this thread frankly mind blowing


----------



## krink (Aug 5, 2018)

100% nailed on they'll find some disturbing stuff on the camera twats hard drive when he gets lifted. Definitely grade a wrong'un.


----------



## PaulOK (Aug 5, 2018)

It wasn't an attack as such. More of an unpleasant incident. I am not sure if anything criminal occured and I doubt the Police would press charges over this.

 Obviously the SWP are milking it for all that its worth (mentioning the shop's TUC affliation a lot and their front group SUTR....although the letters SWP are mentioned nowhere in their publicity for the incident....surprise, suprise).

I thought the shop guy handled it very well (better than I would have done) although when he appeared to be trying to debate them at the beginning I kinda rolled my eyes and thought, "You're not at Marxism pal".


----------



## PaulOK (Aug 5, 2018)

PaoloSanchez said:


> I've "debated" RED CAP BOY a few times at Speakers Corner. He's not very bright. The last time I was there he got escorted from Speakers Corner for flying a Trump flag and complained about "freedom of speech".
> Apparently he's autistic.




Was he the annoying gobby twat doing the voice over? The one who seemed surprised that left wing books were in a left wing bookshop?


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2018)

LUKE, LUKE! Jesus not the sharpest tools in the box are they.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 5, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Ah. A speakers corner YouTube cunt.


Another tick for the _I-Spy Pocket Book Of Contemporary Wankers_


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> It wasn't an attack as such. More of an unpleasant incident. I am not sure if anything criminal occured and I doubt the Police would press charges over this.
> 
> Obviously the SWP are milking it for all that its worth (mentioning the shop's TUC affliation a lot and their front group SUTR....although the letters SWP are mentioned nowhere in their publicity for the incident....surprise, suprise).
> 
> I thought the shop guy handled it very well (better than I would have done) although when he appeared to be trying to debate them at the beginning I kinda rolled my eyes and thought, "You're not at Marxism pal".


No, it was an attack. Plain and simple.

Not really sure how you can view it any differenlty tbh


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> It wasn't an attack as such. More of an unpleasant incident. I am not sure if anything criminal occured and I doubt the Police would press charges over this.



If Plod wanted to there are quite a few charges here. Aggravated Trespass, section 4 POA, even conspiracy.


----------



## PaulOK (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Keith Flett
> 
> Funnily enough I remember us going round the pubs looking for them before the march and then attacking them in alleyways as they went to the meeting point



Re:Flett's "not punch ups down alley ways" comment

This is the usual SWP dig at Squadism. It is pointless as the SWP could now not recruit the types who could and would form effective squads anyway. It is more just knee jerk sectarianism and fighting the tactical battles of the past (the SWP talk off the past A LOT !) . 

It is ironic in a way as the early SWP did tacticly approve of Squads and were happy to receive their protection against a very violent far right. It was only in the early 1980s when they wanted to drop anti fascism altogether and wind up the ANL did they start expelling mainly working class activists for it as they were afraid of factions forming (an anathema to them as it threatens their internal "democratic centralism")


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2018)

Shop owner's right as well, tearing up the placard is technically criminal damage if the owners decide to press charges.

Edit: Seriously though what kind of utter moron films themselves doing an intimidatory shop invasion and then puts it up online? Genuinely mind boggling.


----------



## PaulOK (Aug 5, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Shop owner's right as well, tearing up the placard is technically criminal damage if the owners decide to press charges.



As recently as 2014 the SWP (the shop owners) stated categorically that "The Police and bourgeois Courts system cannot deliver justice for victims" 

Or do they only beleive that when it suits them?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Which bit?


There are bits in the AFN ?


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2018)

In fairness, putting fash away for filming themselves attacking leftie bookshops is less about delivering justice for victims than it is about punishing fascists for rampant stupidity.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> As recently as 2014 the SWP (the shop owners) stated categorically that "The Police and bourgeois Courts system cannot deliver justice for victims"
> 
> Or do they only beleive that when it suits them?



I wonder if it's as straightforward as the SWP owning the shop. I'm imagining a right thicket of limited companies and ownership trusts.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> As recently as 2014 the SWP (the shop owners) stated categorically that "The Police and bourgeois Courts system cannot deliver justice for victims"
> 
> Or do they only beleive that when it suits them?


They might be right depending on what they believe justice is but pragmatically if the courts banned the offenders from the premises it might be in the staffs interests .


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 5, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> In fairness, putting fash away for filming themselves attacking leftie bookshops is less about delivering justice for victims than it is about punishing fascists for rampant stupidity.



being that public in the age of social media is the high of stupidity...

saying that they are that daft can they possibly hold down day jobs


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Re:Flett's "not punch ups down alley ways" comment
> 
> This is the usual SWP dig at Squadism. It is pointless as the SWP could now not recruit the types who could and would form effective squads anyway. It is more just knee jerk sectarianism and fighting the tactical battles of the past (the SWP talk off the past A LOT !) .
> 
> It is ironic in a way as the early SWP did tacticly approve of Squads and were happy to receive their protection against a very violent far right. It was only in the early 1980s when they wanted to drop anti fascism altogether and wind up the ANL did they start expelling mainly working class activists for it as they were afraid of factions forming (an anathema to them as it threatens their internal "democratic centralism")


I know I was there at the time . They didn't tactically approve , Hollborough and Deason initially supported them .


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> LUKE, LUKE! Jesus not the sharpest tools in the box are they.



Luke and several others have already been identified.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> Was he the annoying gobby twat doing the voice over? The one who seemed surprised that left wing books were in a left wing bookshop?


That's Buska who likes to carry pepper sprays . Another gobshite who thinks he's a bit of a lad despite his mental health issues.


----------



## PaulOK (Aug 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I wonder if it's as straightforward as the SWP owning the shop. I'm imagining a right thicket of limited companies and ownership trusts.


......who would all be SWP full timers. I wouldn't be surprised if Delta's name is still a director among the myriad of SWP companies. Rank and File SWP members are strongly encouraged to not worry themselves with this aspect of their Party.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> ......who would all be SWP full timers. I wouldn't be surprised if Delta's name is still a director among the myriad of SWP companies. Rank and File SWP members are strongly encouraged to not worry themselves with this aspect of their Party.


Nobody. Fucking. Cares.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> There are bits in the AFN ?



No, its a unified hivemind


----------



## rekil (Aug 5, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> LUKE, LUKE! Jesus not the sharpest tools in the box are they.


Any excuse to post this.



Spoiler


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Nobody. Fucking. Cares.



I do tbh.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

copliker said:


> Any excuse to post this.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Don't tell them your name Luke


----------



## Wilf (Aug 5, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Don't tell them your name Luke


Don't tell him Pike!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> ......who would all be SWP full timers. I wouldn't be surprised if Delta's name is still a director among the myriad of SWP companies. Rank and File SWP members are strongly encouraged to not worry themselves with this aspect of their Party.


I checked, he isn't 

You wouldn't be surprised but couldn't be arsed to check. I'm not surprised.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> That's Buska who likes to carry pepper sprays . Another gobshite who thinks he's a bit of a lad despite his mental health issues.



He actually sounds unhinged in a very immature way. It was hard to watch that vid because of his awful playground style hectoring and pathetic drivel.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I do tbh.


You really shouldn't.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 5, 2018)

Couldn't see much of the 'invasion' video as it buffered to fuck on my Ma's shitty laptop. However I didn't see any masks * (mentioned on p1 of thread). Very unpleasant for the people in the shop and certainly something everyone should, literally, fight back against. However it didn't look too brutal as an actual tactic i.e. fash and alt-right weirdos should be combatted for who/what they are, their attempt to take over public space and the rest - not in this case because there was any brutality (again, apols if I missed anything in the vid).

As an actual tactic, not that different to the sort of thing Mayday protesters might do in some corporate HQ circa 2002 (though with the difference that the corporate lot would be backed up by the state during and after the event). Again, not minimising what happened, it's just we are getting a clearer picture now.

* Other than trump mask wearing weirdo. Anyway, I read the reference to masks on p1 as some kind of balaclava type thing. Clearly not, these fucking idiots almost wear name badges.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 5, 2018)

juice_terry said:


> It was hardly a big bad gang of jackbooted fascists with links to football hooligans etc it was a bunch of cosplaying alt right fuckwits.. it was hardly Kristalnacht 2 FFS
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk




not sure anyone actually compared it to Kristallnacht as it goes big lad


----------



## cantsin (Aug 5, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> First thing first. The person holding the camera/phone needs his batteries removing. _'Look at this one, look at this one...you Jew hater! OMG! You Jew hater'  _



he needs more than that - are there any clues out there as to who it is /  from what org etc yet ?


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 5, 2018)

cantsin said:


> not sure anyone actually compared it to Kristallnacht as it goes big lad


The way it was being shared on social media you'd have thought it was


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 5, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Shop owner's right as well, tearing up the placard is technically criminal damage if the owners decide to press charges.
> 
> Edit: Seriously though what kind of utter moron films themselves doing an intimidatory shop invasion and then puts it up online? Genuinely mind boggling.


Perhaps pass the facebook footage along to their respective employers...


----------



## tim (Aug 5, 2018)

cantsin said:


> not sure anyone actually compared it to Kristallnacht as it goes big lad



It's like an unseen episode from the "Office" where Gareth goes Nazi.

It's difficult to feel intimidated by such clueless absurd people. Odd, that they clearly no nothing about the SWP rape cover-up


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

tim said:


> It's like an unseen episode from the "Office" where Gareth goes Nazi.
> 
> It's difficult to feel intimidated by such clueless absurd people. Odd, that they clearly no nothing about the SWP rape cover-up



There's almost a sense of shock that anything this insanely left wing actually exists.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 5, 2018)

juice_terry said:


> The way it was being shared on social media you'd have thought it was



rightists attacking left bookshops is going to get a lot of attention, understandably so - there's a lot of history involved, and the fact it turned out to be an incel-cosplay outing doesn't change that


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

tim said:


> It's like an unseen episode from the "Office" where Gareth goes Nazi.
> 
> It's difficult to feel intimidated by such clueless absurd people. Odd, that they clearly no nothing about the SWP rape cover-up


why would you think thats odd?


----------



## PaulOK (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I know I was there at the time . They didn't tactically approve , Hollborough and Deason initially supported them .


So many of their papersales were being turned over back then they needed to do something.

This latest thing seems to be a very ad hoc publicity stunt by a group of UKIP 'Tory Boy' types. Not even fascists. On a totally different level.


----------



## PaulOK (Aug 5, 2018)

tim said:


> It's like an unseen episode from the "Office" where Gareth goes Nazi.
> 
> It's difficult to feel intimidated by such clueless absurd people. Odd, that they clearly no nothing about the SWP rape cover-up



Delta runs a blog and maintains a fairly high profile on social media and to be fair his analysis of the recent big Right demos in Whitehall are detailed and worth reading. His articles are republished by Searchlight magazine and he stills maintains contact with the UAF and occasionaly writes under a pseudonym.

He attracts an assortment of right wingers online who slag him and his research off as you would expect. Few to none bring up the fact that he was the central figure in the biggest scandal to hit the far left in recent decades. They appear to either not know or not care. Probably the former.


----------



## PaulOK (Aug 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> I checked, he isn't
> 
> You wouldn't be surprised but couldn't be arsed to check. I'm not surprised.


Thanks for checking sweetie....knew you would.....mwahhh !


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> So many of their papersales were being turned over back then they needed to do something.
> 
> This latest thing seems to be a very ad hoc publicity stunt by a group of UKIP 'Tory Boy' types. Not even fascists. On a totally different level.



Hate to say this Paul but that simply isnt true. IS/SWP ,   what was left of the 62 movement,/yellow star and 'renegade' CP members were the most miliant anti fascists in the mid late 70s. There were some IMG types around but that was demonstration type stuff. The anarchist scene was minute. The ANL mark 1 inspired /enabled  on a mass scale people who wanted to take on the NF., many of them through RAR who were working class youth  and adults .Far from being turned over the fash were pushed back. It was a few years after the SWP folded the ANL  that some paper sales were turned over . Not sure where you get your info from?


----------



## tim (Aug 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> why would you think thats odd?


Because 2 minutes research would have meant that instead of radomly shouting "peado", they could have focused on actual sexual abuse within the party.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Luke and several others have already been identified.


Anyone know the name of the young lad, shirt off with the union Jack round him?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

tim said:


> Because 2 minutes research would have meant that instead of radomly shouting "peado", they could have focused on actual sexual abuse within the party.


Write a letter of complaint , it would fit with cheer leading the alt right on to do what some sections of the left should have have done ?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2018)

Oh Book Marx. I just got it.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Anyone know the name of the young lad, shirt off with the union Jack round him?


nope, hes jut known as Red Cap Boy , there's something wrong with him , bit of a lost soul.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Oh Book Marx. I just got it.


no shit Sherlock


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2018)

A Twitterer has collated them:

The guy filming is Mark Martin aka Buska In The Park
Max 'Red Cap Boy'
Elizabeth Jones of UKIP's NEC
Sharon Klaff
Martin Costello (UKIP Swindon candidate 2018)
Edward Howard (MBGA Youth Leader)
UKIP NEC member being involved is likely to be a big news item tomorrow if properly confirmed I'd have thought.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 5, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> A Twitterer has collated them:
> 
> The guy filming is Mark Martin aka Buska In The Park
> Max 'Red Cap Boy'
> ...



If Elizabeth Jones being involved is going to be in the news tomorrow then she is either unaware of it, or not bothered, RTing UKIP related stuff as of a couple of minutes ago. Who knows, perhaps involvement in this sort of thing is a planned part of the party's new alt-right turn.


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2018)

Difficult to tell if one of the two women there is her from looking at pics and vid, sunglasses/hat and low quality vid. Maybe if the person actually knows here they could pick it.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 5, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Perhaps pass the facebook footage along to their respective employers...


I'm generally ok with _any_ kind of shit going the way of these people, but get a bit twitchy when it comes to getting people sacked.  I mean fuck 'em and everything, but using bosses to do our dirty work is a bit....  Anyway, the kind of places some of these arses work, they'd get a raise.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Oh Book Marx. I just got it.


I thought somebody needed advice on turns for the Christmas Concert.


----------



## winjer (Aug 6, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Difficult to tell if one of the two women there is her from looking at pics and vid, sunglasses/hat and low quality vid. Maybe if the person actually knows here they could pick it.


The woman behind the main group here could be Jones, but she doesn't appear to go into the shop.


compare with:


----------



## Wilf (Aug 6, 2018)

The more I see that video the more I wish someone would have sparked a couple of them out. Not because it was violent - it wasn't - just _because_.  Forget the politics, fucking hell, the *people*! Whiney, entitled, immature, unprincipled, selfish little shits. The worst 14 year old you ever knew, made into a political movement. Fucking hell, destroy them!


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 6, 2018)

Is that shiny new face of fascism ?!  Fair play to m8e behind the counter.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 6, 2018)

Draped in the fucking butchers apron. Vile flag.


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## krtek a houby (Aug 6, 2018)

Wilf said:


> The more I see that video the more I wish someone would have sparked a couple of them out. Not because it was violent - it wasn't - just _because_.  Forget the politics, fucking hell, the *people*! Whiney, entitled, immature, unprincipled, selfish little shits. The worst 14 year old you ever knew, made into a political movement. Fucking hell, destroy them!



Unfortunate pacing of chants, too " we love Trump, we love Trump! Paedophile, paedophile!"


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 6, 2018)

J Ed said:


> Who knows, perhaps involvement in this sort of thing is a planned part of the party's new alt-right turn.



this is the provisional wing

PUKIP ?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 6, 2018)

I don't usually watch YouTube videos, especially amateur ones, but I've just made myself watch that.

I think we can safely say that those people had no information or idea about the SWP at all. The loud annoying voice seems to be using only the most vague and generalised ideas about "the left". I assume the "paedophile" chants relate to implied lefty tolerance of Muslim Grooming Gangs, a cause célèbre for Tommy. 

The loud annoying voice picks up several books and says "what is this?" (Editor writes: sentence could end here), including one that appears to be an edition of Abraham Leon's the Jewish Question. The Voice Guy seems to be working on the assumption that it's an anti-Semitic work. (Leon died in Auschwitz). This is no doubt because of Labour's ongoing omnishambles over anti-Semitism. I doubt there's any specific knowledge of the SWP involved. 

While the shop guy no doubt felt intimidated, there's no violence that I could see. (Indeed I've experienced worse working in shops myself).

Not sure if much can be generalised from this (actually pretty minor) incident other than there's a group of loud and vacuous alt-righters who have become somewhat emboldened.


----------



## Humirax (Aug 6, 2018)

This is weird. On the one hand you've got a bunch of moronic, sad, borderline fascist fuckwits, and on the other, people who likely belong to an organisation who covered up rape and whose former leader, shamefully still having influence in the party, is a misogynist rapist piece of shit.

Still, I hope these far-right clowns get whats owed to them and this kind of thing doesn't become regular.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 6, 2018)

Humirax said:


> whose former leader


I don't know enough about the internal workings of the SWP to know what _actual _authority any post holds, but the formal position is that Smith was National Secretary and that the leadership is collective.  However, I know what you mean.  I've been back and forth myself over this one.  That's why I ended up watching a video I wouldn't normally have bothered with.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 6, 2018)

Wilf said:


> I'm generally ok with _any_ kind of shit going the way of these people, but get a bit twitchy when it comes to getting people sacked.  I mean fuck 'em and everything, but using bosses to do our dirty work is a bit....  Anyway, the kind of places some of these arses work, they'd get a raise.


Yeah, I felt the same as soon as I posted. However, this shit is on facebook so that could well happen anyway. That seems to be how the modern world works.

Though I have no sympathy for any of these fuckwits


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 6, 2018)

Humirax said:


> This is weird. On the one hand you've got a bunch of moronic, sad, borderline fascist fuckwits, and on the other, people who likely belong to an organisation who covered up rape and whose former leader, shamefully still having influence in the party, is a misogynist rapist piece of shit.
> 
> Still, I hope these far-right clowns get whats owed to them and this kind of thing doesn't become regular.


While the SWP is that, I'm not sure there's an equivalence. We can see what the fascist pricks are because their behaviour speaks for itself. The shop guy, on the other hand, could be just a comrade, or he could well be a deep rooted SWP apologist. I don't think this is a helpful comment. Let's focus on the obvious transgression


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## bimble (Aug 6, 2018)

Thanks for sitting through the whole thing danny la rouge that’s a real public service.


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## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2018)

Just to get something good out of this, the Abram Leon Book The Jewish Question: A Marxist Interpretation is on-line. Stone cold marxist classic written while he was still in his mid-20s and involved in the anti-nazi resistance which led to his murder. I have no doubt on the the strength of this work he would have gone on to be a major player in the marxist tradition. This edition doesn't contain the 30 page intro from the pathfinder press edition of 1970 though. Note Lenni Brenner, the historian who Livingstone shamed is thanked for providing a copy of the original english edition.


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## ska invita (Aug 6, 2018)

I wonder if this was basically Luke Nash-Jones deliberately trying to get himself in a little bit of bother to raise his profile and maybe get in just a little puddle of hot/tepid water to get some Tommy Robinson-style martyr points?


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## The39thStep (Aug 6, 2018)

ska invita said:


> I wonder if this was basically Luke Nash-Jones deliberately trying to get himself in a little bit of bother to raise his profile and maybe get in just a little puddle of hot/tepid water to get some Tommy Robinson-style martyr points?


It could well have been but if it was I'm pretty sure it was spur of the moment stuff tbh. Theres a small pond of pantomine jounalists , patriotic crusaders all jostling for it bit of credibility and income;   James Goddard ( who doesnt seem to have any history untill a year ago), male model Vini Sullivan ,  Red Pill Phil , Big John from Oldham all with little stunts taking it to the man etc and then of course theres Gen Id who probably have done the best out of the TR stuff in recruiting.


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## Riklet (Aug 6, 2018)

Even though this was clearly no 'facist attack' it could easily embolden the far right and more violent individuals. We need solidarity and a strong response, whatever we think of the SWP.

Says a lot about the current state of things that no one kicked the shit out of those jokers.


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## Toast Rider (Aug 6, 2018)

Riklet said:


> Even though this was clearly no 'facist attack' it could easily embolden the far right and more violent individuals. We need solidarity and a strong response, whatever we think of the SWP.
> 
> Says a lot about the current state of things that no one kicked the shit out of those jokers.


what would you define as a fascist attack if not this?


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## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2018)

The attack at Kensington library in 91 (?) would be an example.


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## bimble (Aug 6, 2018)

The last chapter of that Abram Leon book, such a mixture of prescience and what looks now like extreme optimism. Sad and moving to read knowing what happened in the years since he wrote it.


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## Ralph Llama (Aug 6, 2018)

Riklet said:


> this was clearly no 'facist attack'




These people believe something along the lines of the 24 protocols of Zion and an international Jewish-Communist conspiracy to corrupt the culture of the white race.

This shit is being fed to them - `subtly` through the mainstream press and a little less subtly on the interweb. If you wade through their shitty forums there does seem to be an induction point at Nazi Pug man leading through to Tommy and then directed into your `traditional` white supremacist fascist propaganda . Their target group is the poor white man who everybody is ignoring now 

Is this the race to find the correct political brand for UK fascism ? I think so. There is an intelligence to it (it targets it`s political opponents ) and although it seems inconsistent in ideology they(Britain First, GenID, Tommy Slags, Ukip , and another 1000 loony tunes) do seem to be agreeing a lot.

Reminds me of Charlie Brooker`s Waldo.


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## Riklet (Aug 6, 2018)

Actual facists actually planning to attack a left place in advance. Not filming it and giving away their names in the process on youtube. Going there aiming to destroy or burn the place or hurt people.

I am not being partisan btw. Solidarity to the bookshop and those affected. And this kinda thing may be copied. But from what I saw of the video they are a rag tag bunch of loons rather than a motivated far-right cell.


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## Ralph Llama (Aug 6, 2018)

`Actual fascists` ... i`ll agree to disagree on this one, because I don`t see the difference, and I think they were directed.


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## The39thStep (Aug 6, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> *These people believe something along the lines of the 24 protocols of Zion and an international Jewish-Communist conspiracy to corrupt the culture of the white race.*
> 
> This shit is being fed to them - `subtly` through the mainstream press and a little less subtly on the interweb. If you wade through their shitty forums there does seem to be an induction point at Nazi Pug man leading through to Tommy and then directed into your `traditional` white supremacist fascist propaganda . Their target group is the poor white man who everybody is ignoring now
> 
> ...



They dont , MBGA are pro Israel, in fact they wouldnt speak at one rally because a speaker was associated with someone  who is in to all that jewish conspiracy stuff.


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## bimble (Aug 6, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> They dont , MBGA are pro Israel, in fact they wouldnt speak at one rally because a speaker was associated with someone  who is in to all that jewish conspiracy stuff.


Yeah pro Israel but look at the ‘beliefs’ page on their site, it’s got all the ‘cultural marxism’ degenerate Frankfurt school etc. What a mess.


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## The39thStep (Aug 6, 2018)

bimble said:


> Yeah pro Israel but look at the ‘beliefs’ page on their site, it’s got all the ‘cultural marxism’ degenerate Frankfurt school etc. What a mess.


and......


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## bimble (Aug 6, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> and......


Just think its interesting where things are at with all that. Agree with you they are not what ralph is suggesting.


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## Ralph Llama (Aug 6, 2018)

Your right. I was assuming that the differences were all face value(for no good reason )  but there is genuine splits. That`s good.
*calms down a bit


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## hot air baboon (Aug 6, 2018)

I thought the whole point of the "Alt-Right" as opposed to the previous brand was that it was "pro-Isreal" - even fucking Breivik was pro-Israel & made disobliging comments on "National Socialists" iirc ( _*still*_ not got round to reading the 1,500 page manifesto tbh ) 

Richard Spencer is simply the latest far-right extremist to laud Israel as a white 'ethno-state' model


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 6, 2018)

I think it's certainly worth differentiating between opportunistic harassment and planned attacks, but both are serious.

I mean, firebombing Freedom bookshop in 2013 is clearly in another category from the weekend's excitements.

I think both of these types of things have always happened and it's good to know the difference between them.

For example there is an account (I think in this book, which is great) of a bunch of inebriated skinheads coming into Centerprise one afternoon and destroying some of the stock, intimidating the staff and pissing on the floor. So that's "opportunistic harassment".

Whereas from what I can remember Combat 18 organised planned attacks on Freedom in the 90s and also a sustained campaign of harassment on the 121 Centre including writing letters which indicated that they had followed some of the people who worked there home?

Whilst filming the Bookmarks intervention was pretty stupid, it's only to be expected - the alt- and far- right seem motivated by Youtube hits more than almost anything else.


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## Ralph Llama (Aug 6, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> I thought the whole point of the "Alt-Right" as opposed to the previous brand was that it was "pro-Isreal" - even fucking Breivik was pro-Israel & made disobliging comments on "National Socialists" iirc ( _*still*_ not got round to reading the 1,500 page manifesto tbh )
> 
> Richard Spencer is simply the latest far-right extremist to laud Israel as a white 'ethno-state' model



Fascism is like putty though... it`s meme is adapted to the ideology of the consumer. The meme is not believed by those who initially deploy it. I do suspect the Tea party. I should probably back this up though... i`ll just follow this rabbit down this hole.




			
				Richard Spencer`s tweet said:
			
		

> The Tea Party was an implicit White in-gathering par excellence. To make sure things didn’t get out of hand, based Black constitutionalists and advocates for family values were trotted out on stage. The MIllennial’s now bring out gays and trannies, their favored spirit animals.


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 6, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> I thought the whole point of the "Alt-Right" as opposed to the previous brand was that it was "pro-Isreal" - even fucking Breivik was pro-Israel & made disobliging comments on "National Socialists" iirc ( _*still*_ not got round to reading the 1,500 page manifesto tbh )
> 
> Richard Spencer is simply the latest far-right extremist to laud Israel as a white 'ethno-state' model



I don't think coherence and consistency is something the alt-right prioritise. As well as cultural marxism etc I assume there is also overlap with bonkers conspiracy theories, the Protocols etc. As with the EDL, the opposition to anti-semitism is just a flag of convenience for anti-Islam sentiment as far as I can tell. (And a way of bashing their caricature of the left).


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## danny la rouge (Aug 6, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> As with the EDL, the opposition to anti-semitism is just a flag of convenience for anti-Islam sentiment as far as I can tell


Precisely. It's as deep as "that's your side so this is our side".


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 6, 2018)

Also, this just in:

Bookmarks bookshop in Bloomsbury, central London, has called on supporters to attend a solidarity event following an attack by far  right thugs.

Twelve men invaded the shop last Saturday, destroying displays,  wrecking books and chanting Alt-right slogans. One was wearing a Donald Trump mask.

Bookmarks is holding a solidarity event in the shop on Saturday 11 August from 2pm. Throughout the afternoon there will author readings  as well as speakers from the trade union and labour movement.

Bookmarks is also calling on supporters to donate funds to help  bolster security in the shop and to replace lost stock. Donations can  be transferred to: Sort Code: [nope] A/c: [nope]

Bookmarks solidarity event


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## hot air baboon (Aug 6, 2018)

I think there's deeper overlap though - with the extreme right in Israel - Netanyahu's son posting alt-right memes etc 

Yair Netanyahu exposes Israel’s own version of the ‘alt-right’


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 6, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Also, this just in:
> 
> Bookmarks bookshop in Bloomsbury, central London, has called on supporters to attend a solidarity event following an attack by far  right thugs.
> 
> ...




If they can afford a shop in fucking Bloomsbury they don't need my money.


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## Celyn (Aug 6, 2018)

That's my first thought too. Might not be fair, but well...


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## bimble (Aug 6, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> If they can afford a shop in fucking Bloomsbury they don't need my money.


I've been idly wondering that for years, its been there as long as i can remember.  They must have it rent free else couldn't survive at 1 bloomsbury place surely? Not really the time for this though.


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## belboid (Aug 6, 2018)

There was a deal with the TUC, iirr, when they became the official booksellers.


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 6, 2018)

bimble said:


> I've been idly wondering that for years, its been there as long as i can remember.  They must have it rent free surely else couldn't survive at 1 bloomsbury place surely? Not really the time for this though.



Bookmarks was previously in Finsbury Park, I think until the late 90s?

As has been pointed out upthread, the shop isn't a traditional business and I assume is subsidised by other things. 

Not that there is anything wrong with that - I doubt that 56A Infoshop, Freedom Books or Housmans manage to survive purely through book sales.


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## emanymton (Aug 6, 2018)

bimble said:


> I've been idly wondering that for years, its been there as long as i can remember.  They must have it rent free surely else couldn't survive at 1 bloomsbury place surely? Not really the time for this though.


I know that Bookmarks is overall a profit making side of the SWP,  or used to be.

Don't know anything about the status of the shop itself .


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 6, 2018)

Needless to say, my solidarity with them doesn't extend to giving them money although I have bought things from them in the past.

They were my nearest local stockist of _Red Action_ and _Fighting Talk_ in the 1990s for example.


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## belboid (Aug 6, 2018)

The SWP have always cross-subsidised their various businesses at various times depending upon which was in profit at that moment. Everything has subsidised everything else, at some point, I think. And has been so subsidised. Bookmarks (wheter the publishing company or the bookshop) generally did quite well, afair. They've always had a supporters bookclub type affair too, which brought in a reasonable income.


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## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2018)

For harder knobs -

1) no one on door
2) One bloke on counter +maybe reluctant bloke in storeroom
3) No immediate personal security
4) No wider help in immediate area - within like 15 minutes.

The last one i find most surprising.

This is what the emboldened types will be looking at.


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## treelover (Aug 6, 2018)

> Following this weekend’s attack, Bookmarks has received thousands of messages of support from around the world. Since we reopened this morning the phone has been ringing off the hook with people offering solidarity; visitors have dropped off cards and donations. We’ve had authors and other prominent figures contacting us to offer to speak or read at our solidarity day this coming Saturday.



Never been a better time to be a socialist


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## Red Sky (Aug 6, 2018)

One interesting point about this is the extent to which the rest of the far/alt right haven't commented on it.

Can you imagine the online kerfuffle if somebody on our team pulled off an action  like this? 

They don't punch rightward.


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## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> One interesting point about this is the extent to which the rest of the far/alt right haven't commented on it.
> 
> Can you imagine the online kerfuffle if somebody on our team pulled off an action  like this?
> 
> They don't punch rightward.


What would a similar action entail?

First point is v interesting.


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## PaulOK (Aug 6, 2018)

belboid said:


> The SWP have always cross-subsidised their various businesses at various times depending upon which was in profit at that moment. Everything has subsidised everything else, at some point, I think. And has been so subsidised. Bookmarks (wheter the publishing company or the bookshop) generally did quite well, afair. They've always had a supporters bookclub type affair too, which brought in a reasonable income.



The SWP has issues for sure but money has never been one of them. 

They have well healed upper class supporters/members in academia who give generously. They get substantial bequests from wills (most of their members now are knocking on a bit to put it mildly), and their printing company was sold for a substantial amount.  The split from their US branch (ISO) was couched in political terms (about Seattle etc.). It was actually more about who got their hands on an enormous bequest. Maybe describing them as "loaded" is going too far but money wise they are doing fine thank you very much.


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## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2018)

The swp got problems and money is always one.


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## Red Sky (Aug 6, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> What would a similar action entail?
> 
> First point is v interesting.



A Craption as they used to say back in the day. Something broadly in line with your philosophy but cringe inducing.

Recent examples might include masked up accosting of Jacob Rees Mogg or hassling Nigel Garage in a pub.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> The SWP has issues for sure but money has never been one of them.
> 
> They have well healed upper class supporters/members in academia who give generously. They get substantial bequests from wills (most of their members now are knocking on a bit to put it mildly), and their printing company was sold for a substantial amount.  The split from their US branch (ISO) was couched in political terms (about Seattle etc.). It was actually more about who got their hands on an enormous bequest. Maybe describing them as "loaded" is going too far but money wise they are doing fine thank you very much.


Yeh right


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## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2018)

treelover said:


> Never been a better time to be a socialist


Thought you'd pop up to have a pop


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## Red Sky (Aug 6, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> For harder knobs -
> 
> 1) no one on door
> 2) One bloke on counter +maybe reluctant bloke in storeroom
> ...



What's a bookshop / social centre to do though? If you're open to the public in any meaningful way this is a risk you have to run.


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## PaulOK (Aug 6, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh right


I am devastated that you don't like me


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## danny la rouge (Aug 6, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> What's a bookshop / social centre to do though? If you're open to the public in any meaningful way this is a risk you have to run.


Have more than one person on the floor.


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## MightyTibberton (Aug 6, 2018)

Some exciting stock photos of Luke Nash-Jones when his merrie band came to Cardiff: 

Stock Photo - Cardiff, UK. 13th January, 2018. Mr Luke Nash-Jones a member of the group Make Britain Great Again speaks as other members of the group gathered outside the National Assembly 

It's interesting how easy it is to go from YouTube nobody to on-street nobody these days. As he - or his group - has actually done something violent (to whatever degree) in the real world there's a chance they might get thrown off some of their social media platforms now - Patreon and PayPal are the ones they really care about though.


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## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> What's a bookshop / social centre to do though? If you're open to the public in any meaningful way this is a risk you have to run.


Sort the problems this represented out whilst recognising they're not the same. Easier to do in small towns with basically one route to shop.

I was talking only about bookmarks and how these people possibly will eye it up.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> I am devastated that you don't like me


I am unsurprised that you identify disagreement with you with disliking you.


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## The39thStep (Aug 6, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> One interesting point about this is the extent to which the rest of the far/alt right haven't commented on it.
> 
> Can you imagine the online kerfuffle if somebody on our team pulled off an action  like this?
> 
> They don't punch rightward.


There's a few that have commented on it , quite wide ranging from 'bringing bad publicity' to support for MGBA


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## Ax^ (Aug 6, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> One interesting point about this is the extent to which the rest of the far/alt right haven't commented on it.



it does not fit with the current narrative

"we are for free speech and  nothing like the old fash"

saying that have seen some false flag accusations as it was not well planned out


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## PaulOK (Aug 6, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Hate to say this Paul but that simply isnt true. IS/SWP ,   what was left of the 62 movement,/yellow star and 'renegade' CP members were the most miliant anti fascists in the mid late 70s. There were some IMG types around but that was demonstration type stuff. The anarchist scene was minute. The ANL mark 1 inspired /enabled  on a mass scale people who wanted to take on the NF., many of them through RAR who were working class youth  and adults .Far from being turned over the fash were pushed back. It was a few years after the SWP folded the ANL  that some paper sales were turned over . Not sure where you get your info from?



You seem to be inferring that SWP papersales were only getting turned over a few years after the SWP wound up the ANL (this occured in 1981/82).
 "Jim Kelly's" account here makes it clear that that these attacks were happening in the year immediately prior to the ANL's formation in 1977:
Lewisham '77: August 2007


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## The39thStep (Aug 6, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> You seem to be inferring that SWP papersales were only getting turned over a few years after the SWP wound up the ANL (this occured in 1981/82).
> "Jim Kelly's" account here makes it clear that that these attacks were happening in the year immediately prior to the ANL's formation in 1977:
> Lewisham '77: August 2007


I wasnt inferring anything of the sort , I was responding to your statement that 'so many ' were being turned over. It was tit for tat and varied across London and the country.


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## PaulOK (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I wasnt inferring anything of the sort , I was responding to your statement that 'so many ' were being turned over. It was tit for tat and varied across London and the country.



In the BBC2 "Open Space" AFA documentary Mickey Fenn here talks of the attacks on not just the SWP, but Militant and Morning Star sellers too (10 minutes in) that prompted the formation of the Squads:



Correct me if I am wrong but he is not talking about a period "a few years" after the ANL wound up the ANL


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## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2018)

As I recall attacks on SWP papersales played a part in the revival of the anl in the 90s


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## hot air baboon (Aug 7, 2018)

Three members of UKIP suspended following protest ‘ATTACK’ on London socialist bookshop

Police were called to Bookmarks in Bloomsbury, London, on Saturday evening, following reports of a protest. 

No arrests were made, but some damage was caused to the inside of the shop.

In a statement, UKIP party chairman Tony McIntyre confirmed three members had been suspended pending an investigation.

They have been named as Elizabeth Jones, Like Nash-Jones, and Martin Costello.

The statement explained: “It is understood that the three members were involved in an incident at the Bookmarks bookshop in London on Saturday.”


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## Kaka Tim (Aug 7, 2018)

> “They were very shouty, bellowing in your face, saying incoherent things. The books they were holding up and what they were saying about them made no sense. They grabbed hold of a book called Posh Boys, which is about how public schoolboys still run Britain, and accused us of being paedophiles for selling this book, saying, ‘You like boys, don’t you’. That sort of nonsense.


 

from here - Ukip suspends three members over socialist bookshop attack

not football hoolie types then? sounds more like sad act alt right student toss bags - who'd come direct from some demo supporting alex jones ffs.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> What's a bookshop / social centre to do though? If you're open to the public in any meaningful way this is a risk you have to run.



Whenever I've been involved in social spaces we've at the very least made sure we had arrangements in place to get supportive people there in numbers inside ten minutes in case of trouble.

But then we were always careful not to use spaces located in the bougiest place on the surface of the Earth.


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## Red Sky (Aug 7, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Whenever I've been involved in social spaces we've at the very least made sure we had arrangements in place to get supportive people there in numbers inside ten minutes in case of trouble.
> 
> But then we were always careful not to use spaces located in the bougiest place on the surface of the Earth.



It's a London thing surely? Londoners expect to spend two hours on public transport just to go to the pub.


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## Rob Ray (Aug 7, 2018)

That's great, but the Bookmarks incident was over in seven minutes, and if it's being done in a planned way wrecking a shop and getting away again can take about five. It also assumes a scenario where the bookshop volunteer is going to be left free to call who they want to.

Also London's so big, alienated, gridlocked and spread out almost no-one anywhere near central London will have a crew large enough to get down there, mob up and realistically defend a place in reasonable time. And finally, this being London, chances are any serious commotion on a high street in daytime will be filmed from about 15 different angles, so escalating it/pulling a fight into the street will quite possibly mean comrades getting sent down. Simple it isn't.


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## Toast Rider (Aug 7, 2018)

UKIP admit three 'idiotic members' involved in bookshop 'ambush' | JOE.co.uk

kippered


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## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

PaulOK said:


> In the BBC2 "Open Space" AFA documentary Mickey Fenn here talks of the attacks on not just the SWP, but Militant and Morning Star sellers too (10 minutes in) that prompted the formation of the Squads:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong but he is not talking about a period "a few years" after the ANL wound up the ANL



The matter of debate here is your phrase 'so many' which implies it was one way traffic . Simply not the case.


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## treelover (Aug 7, 2018)

Does this now change the nature of the big recruitment, sorry, solidarity event, they have planned?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2018)

treelover said:


> Does this now change the nature of the big recruitment, sorry, solidarity event, they have planned?


this would seem a good time to remind you of the auld adage that it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool then pipe up and prove yourself one.


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## Ralph Llama (Aug 7, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Whenever I've been involved in social spaces we've at the very least made sure we had arrangements in place to get supportive people there in numbers inside ten minutes in case of trouble.
> 
> But then we were always careful not to use spaces located in the bougiest place on the surface of the Earth.



Swapies don`t look after their own. In fact as an anarchist... we have never had any support from any of them.


----------



## treelover (Aug 7, 2018)

Nor have disabled and sick people, seeing them at the I Daniel Blake film screening was a sickener.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Swapies don`t look after their own. In fact as an anarchist... we have never had any support from any of them.



I agree with this sentiment, but also with the idea that we should aim to do better than the SWP. It is bad for everyone if these types of people feel empowered to roam around doing stuff like this, regardless of who they're doing it to.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 7, 2018)




----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 7, 2018)

Fash attacking anyone is automatic solidarity.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2018)

Bottom row, centre is believed to be a certain Alan Ashwood, who runs a FB page called 'Britons United'. In an unusual move, he seems to have appointed his own sock puppet as co-moderator.

e2a: ska invita


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

*Luke Nash-Jones*
13 hrs ·
Luke Nash-Jones, Leader of “Make Britain Great Again” condemns the actions of third party who tore a sign at a communist bookstore; as he calls for peaceful debate in line with the ideas of John Stuart Mill.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2018)

luke can fuck off, we have shops not stores.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 7, 2018)

He looks a little nervous


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> luke can fuck off, we have shops not stores.


where i work we have stores for items we cannot house on our public shelves usually for reasons of space or because the material is so sparsely used


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> He looks a little nervous


i'd look a little nervous if i bore such a great resemblance to alan partridge with a shit beard


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2018)




----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 7, 2018)

I was literally thinking that last night.... that he is the Alan Partridge of the UK right


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Bottom row, centre is believed to be a certain Alan Ashwood
> 
> e2a: ska invita


Bottom row second on the right Brian Calder


----------



## LDC (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> *Luke Nash-Jones*
> 13 hrs ·
> Luke Nash-Jones, Leader of “Make Britain Great Again” condemns the actions of third party who tore a sign at a communist bookstore; as he calls for peaceful debate in line with the ideas of John Stuart Mill.




Hahaha, doesn't bode well for their internal cohesion given there were only 12 or so of them. It's barely been a few days and they're already falling over themselves condemning each other for the most minor thing. Fucking morons.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Bottom row second on the right Brian Calder



Bottom row second right appears to be female...


----------



## ddraig (Aug 7, 2018)

state of him with his gesticulating!! 
"third party" "third party" "third party!!"


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Bottom row second right appears to be female...


bottom row second left then


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

Funny kid that Red Hat Boy aka Max Hammet-Millay. 

Theres quite a few photos knocking around of him on UAF demos and an anti austerity one. Adopted by two gay men when he was a child from a Russian orphanage.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Adopted by two gay men when he was a child from a Russian orphanage.



Ah well then, that explains everything.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Hahaha, doesn't bode well for their internal cohesion given there were only 12 or so of them. It's barely been a few days and they're already falling over themselves condemning each other for the most minor thing. Fucking morons.


no honour among fuckwits


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Funny kid that Red Hat Boy aka Max Hammet-Millay.
> 
> Theres quite a few photos knocking around of him on UAF demos and an anti austerity one. Adopted by two gay men when he was a child from a Russian orphanage.



EDIT: The story is about his adopted brother.



> *'Adopting has destroyed us': British gay fathers who took in two Russian toddlers fear one will KILL them after being threatened with knives, screwdrivers and even strangled with a DOG LEAD *


Gay dads live in fear their adoptive child will KILL them | Daily Mail Online


> He tried to suffocate his brother, threatened all three with knives and screwdrivers, hacked into their bank accounts and went on spending sprees with their credit cards.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 7, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Ah well then, that explains everything.


I'll just grab a handful of popcorn for this. Worth watching, but not getting the full bucket.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 7, 2018)

ska invita said:


> View attachment 143385


This is good work for whowever made it. When Redwatch do it, it looks like some kind of 1998 webpage.


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 7, 2018)

[cross post]


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2018)

Wilf said:


> When Redwatch do it, it looks like some kind of 1998 webpage.


they aspire to the layout of the auld 'target'


----------



## Wilf (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> *Luke Nash-Jones*
> 13 hrs ·
> Luke Nash-Jones, Leader of “Make Britain Great Again” condemns the actions of third party who tore a sign at a communist bookstore; as he calls for peaceful debate in line with the ideas of John Stuart Mill.



Fucking hell, this dunce makes me feel good about all the various 'actions' I've ever gone on. By comparison, they've immediately become models of sound planning, solidarity and common sense.

Right wing fuckits - making anarchists look organised.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 7, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Gay dads live in fear their adoptive child will KILL them | Daily Mail Online
> 
> 
> Seems a nice lad.


That's his brother isn't it?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 7, 2018)

No, i think that is about him ... Max Hammet-Millay... centre picture

Edit: Yes your right. Edited.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Aug 7, 2018)

UKIP man caught on camera at bookshop protest

Our brave Swindon kipper Martin Costello says he was just browsing the shelves for research


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

Fucking hell that Luke Nash Jones cant even make up mitigating circumstances. He claims the Trump mask wearer couldnt get served a beer but if you wait until the end...


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> No, i think that is about him ... Max.


nope his older adopted brother, heres Max 
We Asked Some Protesters What They Thought About the UK's New Prime Minister


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> *Luke Nash-Jones*
> 13 hrs ·
> Luke Nash-Jones, Leader of “Make Britain Great Again” condemns the actions of third party who tore a sign at a communist bookstore; as he calls for peaceful debate in line with the ideas of John Stuart Mill.




Watch that this morning he blames the guy on the mask and proclaimed his innocence regarding the matter

Shame the video out in public showing his actions

The daft twat


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Fucking hell that Luke Nash Jones cant even make up mitigating circumstances. He claims the Trump mask wearer couldnt get served a beer but if you wait until the end...



that got yanked quick?

e2a no, just my browser being shit


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Funny kid that Red Hat Boy aka Max Hammet-Millay.
> 
> Theres quite a few photos knocking around of him on UAF demos and an anti austerity one.



he's also available for weddings


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 7, 2018)

I do like the way he colours in his banners with felt tip.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 7, 2018)

bolshiebhoy said:


> UKIP man caught on camera at bookshop protest
> 
> Our brave Swindon kipper Martin Costello says he was just browsing the shelves for research


“I was in the bookshop because I am interested in researching the depth of Cultural Marxism in our society and I wanted to purchase a book to aid my research and understanding of this menace."

Fabulous.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2018)

treelover said:


> Nor have disabled and sick people, seeing them at the I Daniel Blake film screening was a sickener.


yeh how dare they do something you've been asking for


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> I do like the way he colours in his banners with felt tip.



His mum probably asked the bloke at the newsagent not to sell him any more sharpies.

e2a: or rather, one of his dads.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 7, 2018)

Given how easy it was for this collection of social dregs I wouldn't be surprised if other far right groups thought about following suit. Although as others have said it doesn't fit with the current free speech message particularly well. 

Have to say I'd seen all the FB stuff before I read this thread, and while obviously this is an attack on the left as well as on a left wing bookshop, I wish the swops hadn't exaggerated the account so much - clearly these muppets were unlikely to injure anybody and it just makes the left look, well, a bit nervous and highly strung. 

Does Bookmarks get TUC money btw?  How come?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 7, 2018)

treelover said:


> Nor have disabled and sick people, seeing them at the I Daniel Blake film screening was a sickener.



FUCK ME are you still here you boring tool? Give it a rest.


----------



## love detective (Aug 7, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> I was literally thinking that last night.... that he is the Alan Partridge of the UK right



First thing I thought as well when I first heard him speak - both the mannerisms and the content, then saw this photo on their facebook page - check the one DVD on prominent display by the microphone handle. Is it all a piss take?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 7, 2018)

Hi love detective


----------



## Joe Reilly (Aug 7, 2018)

love detective said:


> First thing I thought as well when I first heard him speak - both the mannerisms and the content, then saw this photo on their facebook page - check the one DVD on prominent display by the microphone handle. Is it all a piss take?
> 
> 
> View attachment 143415



It might be. Even so, wouldn't it be handy if all fascists were like them?


----------



## cantsin (Aug 7, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> It might be. Even so, wouldn't it be handy if all fascists were like them?



lol, very true


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

Cometh the hour cometh the man (and you do have to wait ten seconds for it to start)


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> *Luke Nash-Jones*
> 13 hrs ·
> Luke Nash-Jones, Leader of “Make Britain Great Again” condemns the actions of third party who tore a sign at a communist bookstore; as he calls for peaceful debate in line with the ideas of John Stuart Mill.



Umm...what a collection of horseshit. We can see what happened. You all piled on and behaved like arselords from moment 1. What disingenuous wankery. No pasaran for you mate.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

First dates with Luke Nash Jones



> Luke Nash-Jones @lukenashjones   ∙   Sep 19, 2016
> Tinder darling triggered when I pointed out how racist the EU is


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> First dates with Luke Nash Jones



...he put that online himself...?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> First dates with Luke Nash Jones



Wait and he posted this exchange himself? Because Christa seems to have effortlessly but comprehensively owned him there.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 7, 2018)

Triggering The Remoaners On Tinder  

properly zeitgeist


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 7, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Triggering The Remoaners On Tinder
> 
> properly zeitgeist



To be fair he’s never done it on an actual date, given that’s he’s never had any


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2018)

SpackleFrog said:


> ...he put that online himself...?


its a cracker isnt it?


----------



## chilango (Aug 7, 2018)

Another bookshop protest some years ago....


----------



## M Testa (Aug 7, 2018)

David Coppin, clueless fuckbucket (from Margate, has Phillipino wife) seen here with EDL serial rapist Leigh MacMillan  jailed for 17 years for repeatedly abusing a young girl which the EDL tried to cover up and didn’t.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

Next Saturday demo at Bookmarks from 2pm.I will probably be there for short while.


*Stand Up To Racism needs your help to beat the far right back*. Here’s what you can do:
Join Saturday’s solidarity event at Bookmarks this Saturday at 2pm, 1 Bloomsbury Street, WC1B 3QE more event details here Rush messages of support to Bookmarks info@bookmarksbookshop.co.uk and Dave@bookmarksbookshop.co.uk


----------



## xenon (Aug 7, 2018)

Just for my lols / understanding, is LNJ the main voice their vid. The excitable tit asking the jewish question; posh boys etc?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 7, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Next Saturday demo at Bookmarks from 2pm.I will probably be there for short while.
> 
> 
> *Stand Up To Racism needs your help to beat the far right back*. Here’s what you can do:
> Join Saturday’s solidarity event at Bookmarks this Saturday at 2pm, 1 Bloomsbury Street, WC1B 3QE more event details here Rush messages of support to Bookmarks info@bookmarksbookshop.co.uk and Dave@bookmarksbookshop.co.uk


They never "beat the far right back" they stand in a pre-approved pen waving branded banners preaching to the converted and then go home/pub early patting themselves on the back convincing themselves they've done a good job
and no doubt they'll be rattling buckets and selling papers


----------



## bimble (Aug 7, 2018)

xenon said:


> Just for my lols / understanding, is LNJ the main voice their vid. The excitable tit asking the jewish question; posh boys etc?


Nope, that's just one of his sidekicks.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2018)

ddraig said:


> They never "beat the far right back" they stand in a pre-approved pen waving branded banners preaching to the converted and then go home/pub early patting themselves on the back convincing themselves they've done a good job
> and no doubt they'll be rattling buckets and selling papers



The shop was attacked I will be going up to show solidarity. I live in London its the least I can do. 

I'm not in SWP. Never have been.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 7, 2018)

N


ddraig said:


> They never "beat the far right back" they stand in a pre-approved pen waving branded banners preaching to the converted and then go home/pub early patting themselves on the back convincing themselves they've done a good job
> and no doubt they'll be rattling buckets and selling papers



Occasionally true but not always.


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 7, 2018)

bimble said:


> Nope, that's just one of his sidekicks.



I read that as ‘sidedicks’, and now intend to use it from now on.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 7, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> The shop was attacked I will be going up to show solidarity. I live in London its the least I can do.
> 
> I'm not in SWP. Never have been.


Not saying you are or shouldn't just their actions never match their words
e2a wish they did!


----------



## ddraig (Aug 7, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> N
> 
> 
> Occasionally true but not always.


99% of the time?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> *Luke Nash-Jones*
> 13 hrs ·
> Luke Nash-Jones, Leader of “Make Britain Great Again” condemns the actions of third party who tore a sign at a communist bookstore; as he calls for peaceful debate in line with the ideas of John Stuart Mill.



Didn't make it very far in with that video, but the "totally natural" sip from Union Jack mug at the beginning is hilarious. Comic genius.

As for his excuse, whatever it turned out to be, he didn't even sound convinced himself.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 8, 2018)

Alan Partridge stars as Oswald Mosley in a right wing remake of The Four Lions


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Alan Partridge stars as Oswald Mosley in a right wing remake of The Four Lions



i suppose that until they have sufficient donations they're just going to have to stick to fake news.


----------



## bimble (Aug 8, 2018)

the music!


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 8, 2018)

Having never seen the Matrix, I always have took look up "red pill" on the interwebs to remind myself what it means (having no cultural reference point for it, I keep forgetting). It does seem to be a good indicator of someone who is a complete numpty, though. And I'm sure this video doesn't disappoint. Not that I'm planning to watch it.


----------



## Lorca (Aug 8, 2018)

chilango said:


> Another bookshop protest some years ago....



Heh, i forgot all about that day - brings back some mad memories, nice one!


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 8, 2018)

One thing about the libertarian / alt-right .. they wear sunglasses when they're speaking or on actions. Almost as if .. I say ''as if'' .. they're just too scared to look people in the eye when they're speaking and acting. Afraid, and ashamed. I hate them for this more than the noise they try to hide it under.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Not saying you are or shouldn't just their actions never match their words
> e2a wish they did!



If a Turkish restaurant was attacked by fascists, would you show solidarity?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> If a Turkish restaurant was attacked by fascists, would you show solidarity?


i would certainly consider eating there


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> If a Turkish restaurant was attacked by fascists, would you show solidarity?


What is the parallel in your mind?


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i would certainly consider eating there



Even if they completely Raki’d the place?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

Well, i am just trying to point out that the political persuasion of the bookshop is not relevant at all when showing solidarity .


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Even if they completely Raki’d the place?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Well, i am just trying to point out that the political persuasion of the bookshop is not relevant at all when showing solidarity .



What are you implying about the politics of Turkish people?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

Nothing. Just an example to use that the fascists might attack.


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


>



Shish that skewers me!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Well, i am just trying to point out that the political persuasion of the bookshop is not relevant at all when showing solidarity .


it very much is. i wouldn't show an iota of solidarity with e.g. a tory bookshop or christian bookshop, but as a bookshop which sells progressive material - and fuck knows there are few enough lefty bookshops in london now - i'll show solidarity. it's not like it only sells to swappies, lots of people buy books there because it's a lefty bookshop not because it's a swappie outlet.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> If a Turkish restaurant was attacked by fascists, would you show solidarity?


yes, wtf has that got to do with what I posted?? I didn't say people shouldn't show solidarity with the bookshop


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Shish that skewers me!


one's quite enough, don't push it.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Nothing. Just an example to use that the fascists might attack.


If Fash attacked a Turkish restaurant the motive could be political so I thought it an odd comparison to make.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> yes, wtf has that got to do with what I posted?? I didn't say people shouldn't show solidarity with the bookshop



LOL. Twat. I`m talking about you .


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

that's pretty out of order tbh Ralph Llama !
my issue is with their wording and rhetoric not matching their actions


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> LOL. Twat. I`m talking about you .


wtf??? 
I said yes, what's your fucking problem? you a swappie??

e2a - I answered your question, why call me a twat?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> If Fash attacked a Turkish restaurant the motive could be political so I thought it an odd comparison to make.


attacking indian restaurants more their style.

e.g.

(militant anti-fascism)


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> wtf???
> I said yes, what's your fucking problem? you a swappie??
> 
> e2a - I answered your question, why call me a twat?



Because you are one. You show no solidarity, take the piss and then defend yourself like that  Anyway. I was just pointing it out.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> it very much is. i wouldn't show an iota of solidarity with e.g. a tory bookshop or christian bookshop, but as a bookshop which sells progressive material - and fuck knows there are few enough lefty bookshops in london now - i'll show solidarity. it's not like it only sells to swappies, lots of people buy books there because it's a lefty bookshop not because it's a swappie outlet.



Well. Maybe a Christian bookshop attacked by religious sectarians? Unless it was a sectarian or right wing Christian bookshop.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Because you are one. You show no solidarity, take the piss and then defend yourself like that


How am i a twat? for having a view on the uaf/swp and how they operate?
You got no idea what solidarity I show so I suggest you pack that shit in, why do you infer that from what I posted??


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 8, 2018)

Amazon Depot?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

SpackleFrog said:


> Well. Maybe a Christian bookshop attacked by religious sectarians? Unless it was a sectarian or right wing Christian bookshop.


i don't think i'd delve too deeply into their particular brand of godbothery


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think i'd delve too deeply into their particular brand of godbothery



What about a Christian bookshop in Syria attacked by Daesh?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> How am i a twat? for having a view on the uaf/swp and how they operate?
> You got no idea what solidarity I show so I suggest you pack that shit in, why do you infer that from what I posted??



On a thread about their shop being attacked by fascists , without one twinkle of solidarity. As for your big macho threat. Shove it up your bum.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

SpackleFrog said:


> What about a Christian bookshop in Syria attacked by Daesh?


soz


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> On a thread about their shop being attacked by fascists , without one twinkle of solidarity. As for your big macho threat. Shove it up your bum.


big macho threat?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> On a thread about their shop being attacked by fascists , without one twinkle of solidarity. As for your big macho threat. Shove it up your bum.


seriously exaggerating my post and it's weird
ftr if it happened where I live I would go and show solidarity
It's not a threat, it's a suggestion as it says


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

the `you have no idea what solidarity i show so i suggest you pack that shit in`


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> On a thread about their shop being attacked by fascists , without one twinkle of solidarity. As for your big macho threat. Shove it up your bum.


is this crap because I called you out for using "gay" as an insult??


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> the `you have no idea what solidarity i show so i suggest you pack that shit in`


yeah, pack in the accusations of me showing no solidarity, it's pretty clear, read it again


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> the `you have no idea what solidarity i show so i suggest you pack that shit in`


that isn't a big macho threat


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> soz



The class must know


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

SpackleFrog said:


> The class must know


no, that's what i'd say. very hard to show solidarity with a christian bookshop in syria attacked by daesh in any meaningful fashion and tbh i'm not sure i'd want to, i'd probably find out after the xianity the establishment espoused was vile in itself.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

Yes. It`s revenge. You haven`t shown any solidarity on this thread. I`m calling you out on that.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 8, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Amazon Depot?


More likely to be employing the fascists.


----------



## bimble (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph’s not worth getting angry with just nod & smile .


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> no, that's what i'd say. very hard to show solidarity with a christian bookshop in syria attacked by daesh in any meaningful fashion and tbh i'm not sure i'd want to, i'd probably find out after the xianity the establishment espoused was vile in itself.



Fair. Just pondering.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Yes. It`s revenge. You haven`t shown any solidarity on this thread. I`m calling you out on that.


*pats ralph's head*


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Yes. It`s revenge. You haven`t shown any solidarity on this thread. I`m calling you out on that.


I think you might need to get a grip, I've been let down and witnessed the uaf let other antifascists down on at least 3 occasions in the last few years
They had the numbers but did their static protest and went home patting each other on the back whilst fascists were still about
Me having a view doesn't equal not showing solidarity so try getting a clue too


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

Oh shit it you slag. You get a grip. These matters have been covered on this thread already.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Oh shit it you slag. You get a grip. These matters have been covered on this thread already.


Why the abuse?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

It is an expression of my annoyance .I`ll reel it in if you like.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Yes. It`s revenge. You haven`t shown any solidarity on this thread. I`m calling you out on that.


Are you SWP Ralph?


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 8, 2018)

Not even they would have him


----------



## Wilf (Aug 8, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Not even they would have him


'Y'know, our open door policy, erm...'
- Yeah, what about it?
'Well, erm, our strapline is now "We Take _Nearly_ Everybody" '


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> I think you might need to get a grip, I've been let down and witnessed the uaf let other antifascists down on at least 3 occasions in the last few years
> They had the numbers but did their static protest and went home patting each other on the back whilst fascists were still about
> Me having a view doesn't equal not showing solidarity so try getting a clue too



They run a totally different kind of show. If you don't like it then out organise them.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> They run a totally different kind of show. If you don't like it then out organise them.


I know they do, it's a shame they get the numbers but don't do as they say in the run up to events, a great great shame
What good is their show if it's static and preaching to the converted? Other than to recruit and sell papers?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

and what about this


Red Sky said:


> N
> 
> 
> Occasionally true but not always.





ddraig said:


> 99% of the time?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> I know they do, it's a shame they get the numbers but don't do as they say in the run up to events, a great great shame
> What good is their show if it's static and preaching to the converted? Other than to recruit and sell papers?



They get the numbers because they put the effort in. I agree that's it's limiting but if you want "the numbers" to do something different then you have to put the work in yourself. Most people who  go on their demos aren't SWP supporters they're just responding to the only call out there is.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Are you SWP Ralph?





Wilf said:


> 'Y'know, our open door policy, erm...'
> - Yeah, what about it?
> 'Well, erm, our strapline is now "We Take _Nearly_ Everybody" '



Sorry , who the fuck are you, and what exactly is it that you are attempting to articulate?


----------



## Wilf (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Sorry , who the fuck are you, and what exactly is it that you are attempting to articulate?


I'm asking if you are SWP.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

you should be on stage.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 8, 2018)

You should be in real life.


----------



## bimble (Aug 8, 2018)

Can you maybe stop calling everyone you don’t like slags Ralph ? Cheers.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 8, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> you should be on stage.


Realise it's not an easy question. We can come back to it tomorrow if you like?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 8, 2018)

bimble said:


> Can you maybe stop calling everyone you don’t like slags Ralph ? Cheers.



Fair. I did not really think about it before TBH.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 8, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> They get the numbers because they put the effort in. I agree that's it's limiting but if you want "the numbers" to do something different then you have to put the work in yourself. Most people who  go on their demos aren't SWP supporters they're just responding to the only call out there is.


Why do they claim they're "beating the fascists back" and "standing up to fascists" and "not letting them pass" when they do nothing of the sort??  
That's my gripe, along with them going home early, just be honest about what they're about


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 9, 2018)

On the Today Programme now. Including an interview with the Bookmarks worker.


----------



## chilango (Aug 9, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> On the Today Programme now. Including an interview with the Bookmarks worker.



Presumably the Bookmarks worker is in a Union?


----------



## emanymton (Aug 9, 2018)

chilango said:


> Presumably the Bookmarks worker is in a Union?


Of course they will be. Do you think many full time SWP members will avoid trying to get a union position of some kind?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Why do they claim they're "beating the fascists back" and "standing up to fascists" and "not letting them pass" when they do nothing of the sort??
> That's my gripe, along with them going home early, just be honest about what they're about


When I was trying to get back from welling there was a line of coaches must have been a mile long, none of the fuckers would let us on - all SWP coaches. Finally came across a London guildhall uni or queen mary, forget which, bus which took us back to mile end.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2018)

chilango said:


> Presumably the Bookmarks worker is in a Union?


For obvious reasons


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 9, 2018)

The remarkable thing with this is the inaction of the popo. Various charges could be applied to the shop invaders. If this happened at other places then the full force of the law would be evident.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2018)

Chilli.s said:


> The remarkable thing with this is the inaction of the popo. Various charges could be applied to the shop invaders. If this happened at other places then the full force of the law would be evident.


As I recall the antifa trial some years back occurred in the absence of anyone who'd collided with the defendants: no need for an actual complaint to be made to the police


----------



## Wilf (Aug 9, 2018)

Chilli.s said:


> The remarkable thing with this is the inaction of the popo. Various charges could be applied to the shop invaders. If this happened at other places then the full force of the law would be evident.


Didn't hear the Today Prog, but I think the SWP should abandon the 'attacked by masked up fascists' line as it over eggs the thing massively. A politically savvy approach would be to stick to the 'here's the reality of ukip and other groups approaches to free speech - invading a bookshop' - and to go after them to pay for the damaged stock and displays.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Didn't hear the Today Prog, but I think the SWP should abandon the 'attacked by masked up fascists' line as it over eggs the thing massively. A politically savvy approach would be to stick to the 'here's the reality of ukip and other groups approaches to free speech - invading a bookshop' - and to go after them to pay for the damaged stock and displays.


yeh the way they paint it it's a dozen c18 storming in and everyone lucky to survive their violent onslaught whereas the reality everyone lucky to survive the shower of spittle and nonsense to which they were subjected.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 9, 2018)

Chilli.s said:


> The remarkable thing with this is the inaction of the popo. Various charges could be applied to the shop invaders. If this happened at other places then the full force of the law would be evident.



Didn't the original police statement say that they would be making an appointment to speak to the complainant?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 9, 2018)

LOL WTF


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 9, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Didn't hear the Today Prog, but I think the SWP should abandon the 'attacked by masked up fascists' line as it over eggs the thing massively. A politically savvy approach would be to stick to the 'here's the reality of ukip and other groups approaches to free speech - invading a bookshop' - and to go after them to pay for the damaged stock and displays.



In an unusual example of competence, the original statement about masked thugs was picked up on by the Today Programme interviewer who suggested it was exaggerating it a bit. The response from the Bookmarks bod was a bit of a deflection so I think people would have reached the correct conclusion.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 9, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> LOL WTF



What's next, _Hazel Blears calls in for a Rosa Luxemburg hoodie_?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 9, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Didn't hear the Today Prog, but I think the SWP should abandon the 'attacked by masked up fascists' line as it over eggs the thing massively. A politically savvy approach would be to stick to the 'here's the reality of ukip and other groups approaches to free speech - invading a bookshop' - and to go after them to pay for the damaged stock and displays.



Yeah, but they know with a bit of social media outrage they'll get a lot more from donations  fair play to them for capitalising on it, but to do it so..._dishonestly _is frustrating. They would still have got a good response if they'd taken more of a "look at these idiots and the damage they've caused, don't worry we'll keep on going, why not donate or buy a book?". Maybe better actually, I might have bought something off them.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 9, 2018)

Trots gonna trot.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 9, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Trots gonna trot.



OI. Less of that. They're not trots. Not proper trots. 

State capitalist heresy


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 9, 2018)

SpackleFrog said:


> OI. Less of that. They're not trots. Not proper trots.
> 
> State capitalist heresy



Swappies gonna swop.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 9, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Swappies gonna swop.



That's fine you can say that comrade I will allow this as it is sufficiently orthodox


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Swappies gonna swop.


noel edmonds' swappie shop


----------



## Nigel (Aug 9, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Also, this just in:
> 
> Bookmarks bookshop in Bloomsbury, central London, has called on supporters to attend a solidarity event following an attack by far  right thugs.
> 
> ...



The Gang's All Here !
Including Figureheads From Counterfire !
Could This Be An 'International Socialists/State Caps. 'Love In' ?

We are gearing up for our Solidarity Day on Saturday. 
Speakers who will be joining us at some point during the afternoon include:
--Tariq Ali, campaigner and author of Street Fighting Years
--David Graeber, author of Bullshit Jobs and Debt
--Hsiao-Hung Pai, author of Bordered Lives and Angry White People: Coming Face to Face with the British Far Right
--Robert Verkaik, author of Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain

**Please note there will be a rolling programme of speakers all afternoon, so don't feel you all have to arrive at 2pm!
The numbers expected are huge, so we have booked extra space at the Bloomsbury Central Baptist Church, Shaftesbury Avenue, two minutes' walk from Bookmarks Bookshop, and we will be asking authors and others to speak there as well as visiting the shop.

PROVISIONAL TIMETABLE - SUBJECT TO CHANGE

2pm at Bloomsbury Central Baptist Church: 
Welcome: David Gilchrist, Bookmarks manager
--Louise Raw, historian and author of Striking A Light: The Bryant and May Matchwomen and their Place in History
--Judith Orr, author of Abortion Wars: The Fight for Reproductive Rights
--Kerry Abel, chair of the Abortion Rights campaign UK
--John Rees, author of The Leveller Revolution
--Taranjit Chana and Fevzi Hussein from GMB Race – the GMB union’s self-organised Ethnic Minority network
--Brian Richardson, co-author of Say It Loud! Marxism and the fight against Racism and assistant secretary of Unite Against Fascism

3pm
--Ann Mitchell, stage and TV actor known for EastEnders, will read a poem
--Lindsey German, Stop the War Coalition and author of How A Century of War Changed the Lives of Women
--Louise Regan, Equality Officer, National Education Union
--David Rosenberg, author of Rebel Footprints: A Guide to Uncovering London’s Radical History
--Weyman Bennett, co-convenor of Stand Up to Racism

4pm
--Roger Huddle, one of the founders of Rock Against Racism, will read from Reminiscences of RAR
--Kim Sherwood, author of Testament, a novel about the Holocaust
--Declan Power, London Regional secretary, Public and Commercial Services Union 
--Paul Holborow, co-founder of the Anti Nazi League
WE WILL ANNOUNCE FURTHER SPEAKERS AS THEY CONFIRM...


----------



## LDC (Aug 9, 2018)

Oh god.


----------



## Nigel (Aug 9, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Oh god.


It's almost as if they orchaestrated this.
They definitely know how to milk it !


----------



## Wilf (Aug 9, 2018)

Nigel said:


> The Gang's All Here !
> Including Figureheads From Counterfire !
> Could This Be An 'International Socialists/State Caps. 'Love In' ?
> ...


… and Graeber, an anarchist of some description (well, an Occupyish gent).


----------



## treelover (Aug 10, 2018)

Are these speakers aware of the SWP's recent history?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 10, 2018)

treelover said:


> Are these speakers aware of the SWP's recent history?



Maybe they _aren't  _Maybe you should tell them!


----------



## Wilf (Aug 10, 2018)

treelover said:


> Are these speakers aware of the SWP's recent history?


Hang on, I'll check...


… 37% are, 63% not, though the figure rises to 100% if you only ask those that are members of the SWP.


FFS, treelover!


----------



## Smoking kills (Aug 10, 2018)

Nigel said:


> The Gang's All Here !
> Including Figureheads From Counterfire !
> Could This Be An 'International Socialists/State Caps. 'Love In' ?
> 
> ...





Nigel said:


> The Gang's All Here !
> Including Figureheads From Counterfire !
> Could This Be An 'International Socialists/State Caps. 'Love In' ?
> 
> ...


What time do Hawkwind come on?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Aug 10, 2018)

Smoking kills said:


> What time do Hawkwind come on?



Not that kind of gang...


----------



## emanymton (Aug 10, 2018)

Nigel said:


> --Tariq Ali, campaigner and author of *Street Fighting Years*


Intresting choice to headline.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 10, 2018)

Smoking kills said:


> What time do Hawkwind come on?



Hurry on Sundown.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

treelover said:


> Are these speakers aware of the SWP's recent history?


I suppose their recent history consists exclusively of a) the delta business and b) turning up to idb and their show of solidarity pissing you off


----------



## 19force8 (Aug 10, 2018)

Nigel said:


> The Gang's All Here !
> Including Figureheads From Counterfire !
> Could This Be An 'International Socialists/State Caps. 'Love In' ?
> 
> ...


Ah, how times have changed:


> From _SPARTACIST Britain_ April 1981:
> 
> The attack on the Socialist Workers Party bookshop is an attack on every socialist and worker and all the oppressed. An appeal fund has been established to help defray the costs of restoring the premises, and contributions can be sent to the Socialist Workers Bookshop Appeal Fund, 224 High Street, Digbeth, Birmingham. But more, this act of murderous arson must be met with massive, active protest by the entire labour movement and defenders of democratic rights, and underlines the urgent need to build trade union/black defence guards to stop the fascists' rampage of terror.


Just a simple appeal fund, but accompanied by straightforward solidarity from even the most sectarian groups on the left.

I still have some of the fire damaged books I bought then including Bruce Catton's excellent ACW trilogy.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 10, 2018)

Supposedly


It'll be interesting to see what running a bunch of solicitors make on this and what conclusions are drawn


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Supposedly


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 10, 2018)

A quick look at the Solicitors Regulation Authority code of conduct suggests that it's mainly about solicitor-client relations and that solicitors aren't required to act like saints 24/7. 

There is some stuff in there about "integrity" but it's questionable whether that applies as she wasn't acting as a solicitor in the bookshop afaik.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 10, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> A quick look at the Solicitors Regulation Authority code of conduct suggests that it's mainly about solicitor-client relations and that solicitors aren't required to act like saints 24/7.
> 
> There is some stuff in there about "integrity" but it's questionable whether that applies as she wasn't acting as a solicitor in the bookshop afaik.


There's always a problem with this kind of thing. At one level I wish almost any hardship would befall these people, particularly given what their ideas have done to people throughout the world. But then again, I wouldn't want to see somebody on 'our side' sacked for going on some parallel demo/action.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 10, 2018)

Wilf said:


> There's always a problem with this kind of thing. At one level I wish almost any hardship would befall these people, particularly given what their ideas have done to people throughout the world. But then again, I wouldn't want to see somebody on 'our side' sacked for going on some parallel demo/action.



I'm not sure if she is self-employed or works for an org but I would imagine being a high profile UKIP bod may have harmed her business a fair bit already - far more than hi jinx in a lefty bookshop would...


----------



## ska invita (Aug 10, 2018)

Wilf said:


> There's always a problem with this kind of thing. At one level I wish almost any hardship would befall these people, particularly given what their ideas have done to people throughout the world. But then again, I wouldn't want to see somebody on 'our side' sacked for going on some parallel demo/action.


Definitely... Ultimately this is pretty much nonviolent direct action (especially having seen the footage). Im thinking though that if a bunch of solicitors have to make a judgement on it their ruling might throw up some interesting legal definitions of their action. Or not.

Jurys often let off much more destructive acts against military and arms manufacturers etc under an ends justify the means argument of saving lives.... The motivation behind this act is much more dodgy and that might come to be defined?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 10, 2018)

Any legal aggro will just play into the idea that the alt-right are free speech martyrs saying the unsayable. (And yes I do see the irony in that).

I do think if there is some initial exploration by plod that shits them up a bit that is fine though


----------



## Wilf (Aug 10, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Any legal aggro will just play into the idea that the alt-right are free speech martyrs saying the unsayable. (And yes I do see the irony in that).
> 
> I do think if there is some initial exploration by plod that shits them up a bit that is fine though


Best outcome would be the various invaders having to make a public apology and payment to Bookmarks. It would be even better if their parties/organisations were made to do the payment, though there's not much chance that will happen.  Used to be good when in these circumstances the aggrieved party could wave a cheque in front of the media, not sure what the modern version would be - an email confirming cash transfer? Not as good.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 10, 2018)

Incidentally, Socialist Worker now has it as a 'Nazi Attack':
Socialist Worker (Britain) - an anticapitalist,  revolutionary weekly

Their language in the actual reporting slides around, using _Nazi_, _fascist_ and_ far right._


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Incidentally, Socialist Worker now has it as a 'Nazi Attack':
> Socialist Worker (Britain) - an anticapitalist,  revolutionary weekly
> 
> Their language in the actual reporting slides around, using _Nazi_, _fascist_ and_ far right._


these should be understood by reference to the swp dictionary, where nazi, fascist and indeed far right are all to be understood as 'people to the right of clement attlee'


----------



## Wilf (Aug 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> these should be understood by reference to the swp dictionary, where nazi, fascist and indeed far right are all to be understood as 'people to the right of clement attlee'


Ah, yes, major was just a _neo_-fascist.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Ah, yes, major was just a _neo_-fascist.


soz for the edit


----------



## Wilf (Aug 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> soz for the edit


… but, but, you've made me look a _fool_!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

Wilf said:


> … but, but, you've made me look a _fool_!


you needed no help there


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 10, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Incidentally, Socialist Worker now has it as a 'Nazi Attack'



imagine a sort of cross between Kristallnacht & the invasion of Poland 

more inanity here ...

Communist Bookstore “Attack” – MBGA Press Release
Posted by Luke Nash-Jones | Aug 9, 2018 | Branches | 9  |	 

Make Britain Great Again” have condemned the actions of third parties in the store. 

See this video  and this other video

Antifa posts are inaccurate. Elizabeth Jones was not involved in the visit by UKIP members and some third parties to a communist bookstore. She was up the road talking to a guy about taxation legislation. Sharon Klaff was not there. Edward Howard was not there.

An idiot called Mark “Buska” Martin, who I believe falsely claims to be a UKIP member, (not to be mistaken for Martin Costello) did ruin everything:

This Mark Martin fool whipped people up, making some stupid, irritating, absurd remarks, which do not reflect our beliefs, and called for the ripping of a free anti-Tommy Robinson banner.
In so doing, he hindered a calm departure from the store, causing disrespect to private property.
He also had the absolutely incredible lack of judgement to upload such a video, implicating his own self, and to delay in removing it despite my insistence.
All of the Make Britain Great Again committee greatly regret collaborating with this absolute imbecile and have, despite his protest and disappointment, even anger, politely informed him of such.
No one who is, or ever was, a member of Make Britain Great Again, or UKIP, committed any violent act; damaged anything; wore any form of mask; or committed any crime.
There were no “masked attackers” – such is very obvious from footage.
There was absolutely no damage to any books, or the shop in general.
Martin Costello left the shop almost immediately.
Nash-Jones visibly in the video was trying to defuse the situation.
Nash-Jones did go into the store with genuine intention to see which books they have on “cultural hegemony”; something Gramsci opposed.
A third party YouTuber, Mark Martins, who isn’t part of MBGA though he claims to be UKIP, and whom no party suspended, suggested that another filmmaker with a Trump mask and others visit the communist bookstore for a prank video, in the style of a Vine, etc.. They wanted to shout Trump for a few seconds and leave. A good humoured, calm, spontaneous attempt to make a prank video, of a style popular on YouTube, and of new social media recruits to the UKIP party. There was no malicious intent. This moron Mark Martin hindered a calm departure from the store, causing disrespect to private property.

Considering that last week anti-Semites threatened repeatedly to kill us because we reject fascism, Momentum’s 1930s reference is very inappropriate (watch this video). Why didn’t they report on this threat by anti-Semites to kill me? Did that not serve their Marxist agenda? They attack “conservatives” such as ourselves, while they ignore death threats we receive from the actual far-right.


from the comments

_As soon as it started getting loud and the shopkeeper started looking annoyed, it was time to leave. No messing about. No negotiating. No trying to calm anyone down. Just get out. I am astonished that the police weren’t called. Luke showed very poor judgement and is to blame because for the whole thing because although Luke stayed calm throughout, he invited those idiots to follow him into to shop and, when he saw that they were causing disruption, Luke did not immediately leave. If Luke had left, the idiots would have followed him like sheep and the incident would have been over in seconds.


This has been a cock-up. Unfortunately, in the Bookmarks crowd were a couple of notorious EDL people, with horrific backgrounds and others who are well known to not only the police but by the intelligence teams of HnH and Momentum. There was a young man with severe autism, easily led. Vunerable. A number have criminal records. The whole thing was a disaster.

There can be no deflection of blame to third parties. No smart editing. Leaders have to lead and take the whacks when it goes wrong. It has gone wrong.

But it does not have to be the end.

There has to be an unconditional apology to the Bookmarks team and this needs to be published.

I fear that otherwise the storm that will surely come on Saturday after the demo at Bookmarks ( about 2000 strong IMHO including powerful political and media figures ) will be extremely damaging to the political careers of the three main UKIP members involved.

There is no point rabbiting on about MSM / Leftie conspiracy theories , bull s**t about ‘Cultural Marxists’ ‘Communists’ or other such nonsense.

Please apologise guys and live to fight another day.

As President Johnson once said ” A man can fight if he can see daylight down the road, but their ain’t no daylight in Vietnam ‘

Don’t make Bookmarks your Vietnam._


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> imagine a sort of cross between Kristallnacht & the invasion of Poland
> 
> more inanity here ...
> 
> ...


if i was of that orientation and i saw that post i would never trust the author again


----------



## Wilf (Aug 10, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> imagine a sort of cross between Kristallnacht & the invasion of Poland
> 
> more inanity here ...
> 
> ...


Splendid stuff. 



> Elizabeth Jones was … up the road talking to a guy about taxation legislation.


Well, that's a life lived to the full.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 11, 2018)

Shop busy today


----------



## ska invita (Aug 11, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> imagine a sort of cross between Kristallnacht & the invasion of Poland
> 
> more inanity here ...
> 
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Splendid stuff.
> 
> 
> Well, that's a life lived to the full.


A lie lived to the full anyway


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 11, 2018)

Well went up to Bookmarks. Shop was busier than I had seen it previously.

The meeting down the road in basement of church was full. Heard Judith Orr.

Met a few SWP from South London.

My partner is Spanish and south London section has Spanish members.View attachment 143766


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 12, 2018)

Five far right  turned up led by plastic geezer Vincent Sullivan 


Despite Vincents ' we laid into 200 of them ' apparantly they got chased off by some women who werent having any of it. Strange boy that Vincent.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 12, 2018)




----------



## Nigel (Aug 12, 2018)

Miss all the fun !
Why didn't they just punch these wankers ?

According to G uy S. they did !


----------



## imposs1904 (Aug 12, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


>




Worst boy band ever.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 12, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


>



Game of two halves


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 12, 2018)

Fucking silly to be putting footage like that in the public domain .


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2018)

A disappointment to see a gooner like that


----------



## Nigel (Aug 12, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Five far right  turned up led by plastic geezer Vincent Sullivan
> 
> 
> Despite Vincents ' we laid into 200 of them ' apparantly they got chased off by some women who werent having any of it. Strange boy that Vincent.



Missed all this !
What time did this happen ?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 12, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Fucking silly to be putting footage like that in the public domain .


'How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise'
Glen Teale, Dave Pearson ( Arsenal shirt) with Vincent.


----------



## krink (Aug 12, 2018)

but surely little camera boy didn't run? he knocked the other fella out didn't he?  he said he would and said 'cunt' to make it official. you're not saying he didn't stick to his word and actually ran off, are you


----------



## Grump (Aug 12, 2018)

How embarrassing, the fascists didn't even know how to fight!


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 12, 2018)

It’s the fucking Walt Right.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 12, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Fucking silly to be putting footage like that in the public domain .



There was more than one journalist covering events. Let alone fash with their phones.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 13, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> video
> 
> *Tommy Robinson winds up bigots and the cash floods in*
> A former aide to the far-right figurehead reveals that his ragtag group lacks organisation but has money to burn
> ...


Lucy Brown, who was shocked at Tommy being *gasp* maybe a bit racist and not a proper journalist, has been on holiday with white nationalists and


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2018)

That's a kosher black sun. No fucking about with that. That's as hard as hard nazis go.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Lucy Brown, who was shocked at Tommy being *gasp* maybe a bit racist and not a proper journalist, has been on holiday with white nationalists and



I'd be disappointed if someone on holiday with MC wasn't sporting some dubious jewellery


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 15, 2018)

WRT that Lucy Brown interview- if you can say one thing about the far right they seem to be very keen grasses if the money is there. For all the multitude divisions on the left there doesn’t seem to be the same culture of spilling the beans after acrimonious splits. Either that or nobody would offer them money


----------



## rekil (Aug 15, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> That's a kosher black sun. No fucking about with that. That's as hard as hard nazis go.


Shakira selling Nazi-like trinket for El Dorado tour | DW | 19.06.2018


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 15, 2018)

copliker said:


> Shakira selling Nazi-like trinket for El Dorado tour | DW | 19.06.2018


Hauptbereichsleiter don't lie_._


----------



## rekil (Aug 17, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Hauptbereichsleiter don't lie_._


It doesn't stop there. Her stodgy rocker "Rules" from the album Laundry Service (obviously a reference to Dublin's Swastika Laundry) is a thinly disguised version of the fuhrereid.


> You have to swear you've got love to love me
> That will last forever
> We must have a story with a happy ending
> So don't ever go away
> ...


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## danny la rouge (Aug 17, 2018)

copliker said:


> It doesn't stop there. Her stodgy rocker "Rules" from the album Laundry Service (obviously a reference to Dublin's Swastika Laundry) is a thinly disguised version of the fuhrereid.


I bow to your encyclopaedic knowledge of Shakira's oeuvre.


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## emanymton (Aug 24, 2018)

Anti-Boris Johnson campaigners allegedly attacked in Oxford

Seems as good a place as anywhere for this.

An SWP paper sale maybe?


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## butchersapron (Aug 24, 2018)

Pretty easy to establish the background of the person interviewed...so you'd think so.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 24, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I bow to your encyclopaedic knowledge of Shakira's oeuvre.



Who Shakira?


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## M Testa (Aug 24, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> if you can say one thing about the far right they seem to be very keen grasses if the money is there. For all the multitude divisions on the left there doesn’t seem to be the same culture of spilling the beans after acrimonious splits



We have long contested that many groupuscules on the UK far right are little more than inept criminal gangs and many of their members have bad criminal records so when they get nicked (often for non-political things) they can be pressured to give info to plod. The recent National Action case was helped by a grass. Robinson has been in prison 7 times. Mosque bacon draper 'Bunny' Crehan had over 55 offences and several terms inside. North West Imbeciles diddyfiddler calvert has been inside for attacking a pregnant woman and other violence and his mate shaun 'fatmess' jones was jailed for biting someone’s ear during a fight over sausage rolls and his long history of violence includes drunken and abusive offending and attacks on his wife. I dunno about you, but I've never met any anarchos/anti-fascists/leftists who have such appalling (non-political) criminal records like these shit-biscuits.


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## M Testa (Aug 24, 2018)

Shakira on the left


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## Idris2002 (Aug 24, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> That's a kosher black sun. No fucking about with that. That's as hard as hard nazis go.


The last time I saw one of those was on a sticker on the escalator in the Vasileoskoy Ostrov metro station in St. Petersburg.


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## chilango (Aug 24, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I bow to your encyclopaedic knowledge of Shakira's oeuvre.


I spent $150 on a front row seat for a Shakira concert a few years back. She was good value.


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## Wilf (Aug 24, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Anti-Boris Johnson campaigners allegedly attacked in Oxford
> 
> Seems as good a place as anywhere for this.
> 
> An SWP paper sale maybe?


There's a Julie Simmons writing in Socialist Worker about earlier events in Oxford (and an attack in Bury):
Join unity protest after racist attack in Oxford


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## krink (Aug 24, 2018)

I'm very aware of this rehabilitation of the swp and how they're slowly worming their way back into everything. I have been invited to join a local initiative to try to do something about the completely unopposed far right demos of the last few years and it looked good but even they have joined up with sutr from the next city over and since the whole thing is around sexual abuse of women, it's got a fucking big problem right there. I don't even know if i should bother because I'm not working with the swp (them and tankies is my line). 
on a side note, why the fash haven't picked up the martin smith stick to beat sutr/uaf is beyond me.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2018)

krink said:


> why the fash haven't picked up the martin smith stick to beat sutr/uaf is beyond me.


because they've a great ton of dirty washing of their own they don't like aired no doubt. the number of nonces and terrorists and so on among them.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 24, 2018)

ViolentPanda said:


> Who Shakira?


Popular Latin crooner.


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## belboid (Aug 24, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Popular Latin crooner.


I thought she sung in Spanish...


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## danny la rouge (Aug 24, 2018)

belboid said:


> I thought she sung in Spanish...


Ecce in pictura est puella cantrix.


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## DaveCinzano (Aug 27, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Ecce in pictura est puella cantrix.


Ingens polyspaston


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## danny la rouge (Aug 27, 2018)

Zima at Anzo.


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## Nigel (Sep 21, 2018)

D ave Su mmer who was one of the idiots invading Bookmarx pleads innocence of being part of Far Right !


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## SpackleFrog (Sep 22, 2018)

Not denying attacking the bookshop though.


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