# Ashton Court - Sunday cancelled!



## JTG (Jul 15, 2007)

So don't set out!

Bit of rain apparently


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## lizzieloo (Jul 15, 2007)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6899427.stm


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## Gerry1time (Jul 15, 2007)

It's a combination of the rain meaning emergency vehicles can't easily get on site, putting the festival in breach of it's bloody license. 

I hope someday people will start looking at the impact of the license, rather than just blaming the organisers all the time.


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## strung out (Jul 15, 2007)

Is it only me that thinks considering that this has been one of the wettest summers in ages, it's hardly rocket science to have predicted weather like this at some point over the weekend. Bearing that in mind, would it really have been that hard to have implemented a few measures to ensure that adverse weather conditions would not prove an obstacle to compliance with the license conditions. I mean, I know Ashton Court festival isn't quite on the same scale as glastonbury or other major festivals, but considering how close the site is to the city and the far from apocalyptic rain conditions, i find it hard to believe that something like this couldnt have been avoided somehow.

The cynic inside me says that they knew attendance figures would have been awful today due to a bit of rain and they decided to cut their losses and play it safe. That's only the cynic inside me though


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## Geri (Jul 15, 2007)

I don't buy this at all. Emergency vehicles can't get in - what?! This is the middle of bloody Bristol, not the top of some mountain in Snowdonia.  

Mind you, we decided not to go to Tolpuddle because it was raining.


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## Sunspots (Jul 15, 2007)

(-I was at another festival instead, but...) by many accounts, yesterday was a good 'un.  -What a difference a day makes though, eh?  -What a disappointment this cancellation must be for the organisers, acts, punters and everybody else involved...  

(-Was the change of location to relatively lower ground?  If so, could that be a contributory factor?...)

Whatever's happened, presumably this now creates a rather big hole in AC's finances?  Let's just hope one of the licensing regulations was that the festival must be adequately insured.  Otherwise, it's future would appear fairly close to fucked at the mo'...


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## JTG (Jul 15, 2007)

A lot of the acts scheduled to play are now playing at various venues around Bristol this evening. The Cube, The Croft, Louisiana, Thekla and Academy all involved I think.

Five quid in, don't think a Sunday ticket gets you in though


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## Sunspots (Jul 15, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> A lot of the acts scheduled to play are now playing at various venues around Bristol this evening. The Cube, The Croft, Louisiana, Thekla and Academy all involved I think.
> 
> Five quid in, don't think a Sunday ticket gets you in though



Was just about to post the same.  (-Think yer correct about Sunday tickets.)

Shameless cut 'n' paste from (Bristol site) Hijack:



> *The Croft:*
> Blackout: 1130 -
> Crippled Black Phoenix 1040 - 1110
> Bad:Science 955 - 1025
> ...



Nothing mentioned in that about the out of town acts, but on the same thread there was some _(-unconfirmed!)_ suggestions that (1) Damon Albarn etc might play The Academy, and (2) that Horace Andy's had to jet off to a gig in Italy so won't be able to play any of these impromptu gigs.


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## Gerry1time (Jul 15, 2007)

I've been involved in this a bit today, still not sure of the main reason for cancellation, hoping to catch up more fully on that tomorrow. It was the rain though, but not sure who's decision it was.

There's been a mass text campaign going on today to let people know about the gigs tonight, all proceeds are going to ashton court as far as i've been told, and horace andy isn't playing.


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## Superape (Jul 16, 2007)

*2nd Day of Ashtopn Court cancelled*

This I find worrying.

The 2nd day of Ashton Court was cancelled because of bad weather. Emergency services told the organisers that, because of conditions underfoot, it was impossible to guarantee an emergency service response, and the advice was to cancel the gig.

Now, either the site was 3 feet underwater & this was an inevitable & sensible decision, or (as seems more likely) some health & safety jobsworth decided that getting an ambulance wheel dirty was more important than allowing grown adults to make a sensible decision about whether they could stomach a couple of days of soggy conditions.

Anyone here there? What was it like?

What implications could this decision have on future outdoor events in a country famed for it's unpredictable wet weather?


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## Geri (Jul 16, 2007)

There's a thread about this here:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=214859

As I said, I don't really buy it. We did have an awful lot of rain in the morning, but I can't believe it was so bad that emergency vehicles wouldn't have been able to access the site. The festival was moved from it's original site which is uphill to the bottom of the estate though so it's possible that rather than running away from the festival, the water was running into it.

Either way it's not good news for the future of the festival.


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## Superape (Jul 16, 2007)

Gah - apologies, didn't see it in there.

I think it's bad news for any festival, not just this one. Sets a bad precedent


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## Geri (Jul 16, 2007)

Oh, and another thing - the first time I ever went to Ashton Court festival was 1985 and it was very wet that year, and no problems. 

The problem with charging £15 to get in is that if it's wet, people are not going to want to waste their money. When it was free, it didn't matter if you went home after an hour because you hadn't lost anything. I don't go to Ashton Court to see the bands, I go to meet up with friends, look at the stalls and just enjoy the general feel of the place. I'm not paying £15 to do that, so to me I don't care if it's "value for money" in terms of the number of bands playing.


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## Crispy (Jul 16, 2007)

merged


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## Geri (Jul 16, 2007)

Well, I just saw footage from yesterday on the local news and I didn't think it looked that bad - a bit muddy yes, but not flooded or anything, certainly I wouldn't have thought it was bad enough that emergency vehicles couldn't gain access.  

Could it be that the police put pressure on the emergency services to withdraw cover?


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## Callie (Jul 16, 2007)

Surely your view as an onlooker is not going to be the same as whoever's job it was to make the decision?!

I myself am not convinced this was a legitimate reason for cancelling it but I can kind of see where theyre coming from.

Weird how glastonbury manages to do it though - that place seems to turn into a mire and theyre still allowed to go ahead....but then it is a little bit more expensive 

Itd be interesting to know the numbers of attendance on the Saturday, I bet loads of people didnt bother and i wonder how much of a factor decreased taking would be in such a decision


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## Isambard (Jul 16, 2007)

Gerry1time said:
			
		

> I hope someday people will start looking at the impact of the license, rather than just blaming the organisers all the time.



We've been talking about the licence issue for months and months but at the same time that shouldn't stop rightful criticism of the organisers.

I can't say whether the rain really made emergency access too difficult.
But personally, I think it was a bit of a made up excuse. 

The authorities had already decided to fuck the festival over and made all sorts of hoops for it to jump through. The commitee showed that they weren't able to stand up to the demands of the police, the residents and North Somerset Council so it was easy to fuck em up one more time, by getting them to cancel Sunday.

I wonder how many people are going to be ready to pay a helluva lot of money for advance tickets for next year?

Ashton Court is dead, long live Normanbury Festival!  

These mushies are really shit........


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## JTG (Jul 16, 2007)

Debts may cause death of festival

They should have knocked it on the head after last year tbh. This year was never ever going to be the same. Pale shadow of its former self so they may as well have given up.


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## J77 (Jul 16, 2007)

I once saw SClub7 at the balloon festival when it was like the Somme -- the mighty SClub would never have stood for a cancellation


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## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> Debts may cause death of festival
> 
> They should have knocked it on the head after last year tbh. This year was never ever going to be the same. Pale shadow of its former self so they may as well have given up.



That would make the Fall the last ever band to play at Ahston Court. Well done Mark!

I think the thing needs killing for a few years then returned somehow to its community basis. That means local bands, not massive money-sucking headliners, no VIP bollocks, none of the innovations that have strangled the thing over the last 7 or so years. No proffesionnal event organisers either.


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## JTG (Jul 16, 2007)

There's an interesting thread here discussing what was good/bad. Also has some pics of the state of the site yesterday afternoon.

Agree with some on there that they'd have been better off abandoning it this year, regrouping and planning for next year. As it was the whole thing was rushed and now very probably fucked forever.


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## Gerry1time (Jul 16, 2007)

Isambard said:
			
		

> We've been talking about the licence issue for months and months but at the same time that shouldn't stop rightful criticism of the organisers.
> 
> I can't say whether the rain really made emergency access too difficult.
> But personally, I think it was a bit of a made up excuse.



As i mentioned in another thread, I've been helping out alongside the organisers for the last few weeks, and whilst it's not been the easiest job i've ever done, i do know that;

A lot of the criticisms of them online have been completely baseless (banning booze was about them making more money, etc)

They did take account of a lot of feedback, read the stuff online, and were frustrated by some of it (especially the inaccurate stuff). Some of it was pretty horrible and needlessly personal too. 

They completely 100% worked their arses off to get the festival going this year, and stopped taking a salary to ensure it could go ahead.  

Essentially, they're sound people working hard for something they believe in. Not saying that things couldn't have been done differently, but i guess the one thing that may come out of this is that if people in Bristol want a festival, they'll have to do something to make it happen. Everyone seems to have an opinion on what the organisers did wrong, and that's fine. The thing that bugs me is the amount of people thinking that things could be better but doing nothing to make them so, especially when calling for it to be a 'community' festival again. A community festival needs a community helping to make it happen! 

Not having a go at anyone here, but I dunno, it's just been a bit odd to see keyboard heroes all over the web attacking these people, when so much of what has been said isn't true, and the opportunities to get involved and help make things better are plentiful!


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## Sunspots (Jul 16, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> There's an interesting thread here discussing what was good/bad.



I was just reading that very same thread, then I see you've posted a link to it.   

(-No names necessary, but are you a regular poster or a lurker on there?)


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## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2007)

Gerry1time said:
			
		

> As i mentioned in another thread, I've been helping out alongside the organisers for the last few weeks, and whilst it's not been the easiest job i've ever done, i do know that;
> 
> A lot of the criticisms of them online have been completely baseless (banning booze was about them making more money, etc)
> 
> ...



From a very healthy frestival to being dead in the short period in which the pros were brought in. People have every right to wonder why and if the two are connected. Why did everyone i know boycott it for the last two years despite it being a highlight of their simmer for the last 20 years? The people who could, and did help in the past were systematically alienated for opposing the mid-long plans to fully commercialise the event. That's one reason why they ended up on their own.


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## Isambard (Jul 16, 2007)

Gerry1time said:
			
		

> A lot of the criticisms of them online have been completely baseless (banning booze was about them making more money, etc)
> 
> The thing that bugs me is the amount of people thinking that things could be better but doing nothing to make them so, especially when calling for it to be a 'community' festival again. A community festival needs a community helping to make it happen!





Regarding the booze thing I'm sorry I cannot see any other reason than commerical interest. Glass bottles were already banned and the number of containers of alcohol one could bring in was limited to IIRC 8 containers (cans). So any comment that it was to make the festival more "family friendly" and cut down on anti social behaviurr due to drunkenness is patently bullshit. If mum and dad want to have a couple of drinks during the afternoon they'd have to shell out a tenner for 4 pints rather than a couple of quid for supermarket cans.

It is easy to criticise people who organise such stuff, yes.

Strangely enough though there's a string of posters on this forum who are involved one way or another in organising community events, including festivals.

I'm off to a meeting tonight that's partly about 2 festivals we've got coming up locally. We have a MUCH better relationship with the council but frankly speaking the idea of the police demanding the right to search all participants or that people couldn't bring their own drink is simply laughable.


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## JTG (Jul 16, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> I was just reading that very same thread, then I see you've posted a link to it.
> 
> (-No names necessary, but are you a regular poster or a lurker on there?)



I've lurked for a couple of years - had the temerity to post the other day and got accused of being a noob


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## tarannau (Jul 16, 2007)

I doubt it's because of the pros going in that caused the problems - they almost certainly existed before. It's more that it's virtually impossible to throw a festival these days without incuring some hefty costs - whereas before they were comparatively rare and given some leeway by local authorities, nor they're far more strictly regulated and often seen a way of generating income. Doing an old style Ashton Court simply ain't possible any more.

Let's put it this way - I helped with a local free festival for charity  put on in Brockwell Park a few years ago. Everyone contributed their time for free, with the exception of some compulsory 'pro' stewards, from DJs through to bands and organisers. By the time the council had insisted on x number of toilets, a contribution of H&E inspections, x type of electrical euqipment and a 'park use' licence and a sodding fence, then the organisers were in serious trouble ... and they received charity 'discounts' The event failed to make any money for charity, the key organisers losing thousands each for their effort. And these were free party veterans, Squall, RDK and Exodus veterans, who had got every local resource and freebie working for them. Most of us ended up financially drained for months, spending the best part of a week putting up and taking down a fence that nobody wanted in the first place

I doubt the climate with Ashton Court and Bristol Council is any better. It's going to be very hard to succeed without a hefty dose of 'commercialism' with the present regulations.


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## Crispy (Jul 16, 2007)

Yep - the same new licensing laws that have been killing live music in pubs are the same ones that are killing the free festivals.


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## Sunspots (Jul 16, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> I've lurked for a couple of years - had the temerity to post the other day and got accused of being a noob



_< searches for 'noob!!1!!' posts >_  

I'm not a poster there, but I have found it an occasionally handy source of local music info over the years. 

I fear I'm probably not really sufficiently 'dancey' enough to actually post there though.


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## JTG (Jul 16, 2007)

tarannau said:
			
		

> I doubt the climate with Ashton Court and Bristol Council is any better. It's going to be very hard to succeed without a hefty dose of 'commercialism' with the present regulations.



First of all I'm gonna point out again that the licencing authority is North Somerset. Easy to get confused when the land is actually owned by BCC but is outside their jurisdiction, so they have some input but not toal control.

Secondly, good points which I completely understand. But I do feel the festival has been heading in the wrong direction up a blind alley for some time now and losing friends left right and centre due to the way they've acted. That's why I have very little sympathy for them.


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## JTG (Jul 16, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> _< searches for 'noob!!1!!' posts >_
> 
> I'm not a poster there, but I have found it an occasionally handy source of local music info over the years.
> 
> I fear I'm probably not really sufficiently 'dancey' enough to actually post there though.



I rarely post 'cos the sum contribution to some threads seems to be of the 'this gonna be a sick nite!!!!1111' type.

It's a very useful resource to find out what's going on, especially if you're a complete sucker for dnb/breakcore/hardcore nights


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## Geri (Jul 16, 2007)

Gerry1time said:
			
		

> They completely 100% worked their arses off to get the festival going this year, and stopped taking a salary to ensure it could go ahead.



Stopped taking a salary?! When did they start taking a salary, and how much was it?


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## ziconess (Jul 16, 2007)

floria_tosca said:
			
		

> I don't go to Ashton Court to see the bands, I go to meet up with friends, look at the stalls and just enjoy the general feel of the place.



Just about sums it up for me, used to love seeing old friends & getting mashed in the park. Mind you last time I went I lost my only car key, my house keys, all my drugs, my t-shirt, all the drugs I bought to replace the ones I lost earlier and my shoes, not a good bit that but apart from that year it was great. 

Apart from two years before when I fucked my motor on the way up & then drank a bottle of whisky far to early on the poor excuse it was my birthday, that wasn't good either.

Or the year before when I, also very drunk, persuaded a very old friend, against her better judgement, to buy me a water pipe for my birthday and then proceed, to my eternal embarrassment, to smash it to smithereens after dropping it around 20 seconds after my first toke. That wasn't good either

I was gonna say Ashton Court, for me, has joined a list already to long by being a fond memory rather than something to look forward too but as I look back I think that's probably for the best.


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## Gerry1time (Jul 16, 2007)

floria_tosca said:
			
		

> Stopped taking a salary?! When did they start taking a salary, and how much was it?



Don't know and don't know I'm afraid, but they were working full time on the festival, and could have gone and earned money but instead decided to earn nothing to keep it going. To my mind, for any perceived faults, that actually says a hell of a lot.


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## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2007)

It says that they were pros whoi didn't want to blot their record for future work   -and that they'd made enough already to be able to do that from past work. That's what is says to me. They shouldn;t have had a salray tt start with. Step one in alienating the festival from its rightful owners.


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## Isambard (Jul 16, 2007)

They publish their accounts surely and reveal how many paid staff they have so you can do a bit of maths?

I've nothing against people getting paid money for working - apart from the whole concept of wage labour of course  . There are thousands and thousands of people though who put a LOT of time into running stuff that get the odd free drink or the odd free ticket. They don't set themselves up as martyrs.

It's not the Ashton Court Committee who have lost something.
It's the people of Bristol and neighbour communities.


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## Sunspots (Jul 20, 2007)

*It's official...*

Bristol Community Festival today made the following statement:



> Bristol Community Festival, the not-for-profit company which organises the annual Ashton Court Festival has today announced that it has started the process of winding up the company. The directors have been in dicussions with insolvency practitioners with a view to appointing them to liquidate the company.
> 
> Heavy rain over the weekend of the 2007 event forced the cancellation of the second day's entertainment resulting in financial losses which the organisation cannot sustain.
> 
> The directors met on the 19th July and concluded that there was no realistic prospect of continuing and reluctantly took the decision to fold the company.  "It's a real tragedy that after 33 years we've been beaten by events beyond our control" said festival chariman Kevin Rooney. "After last year's difficulties we moved heaven and earth to save the festival and by Saturday night  it looked like we'd succeeded. Being dealt this severe blow at the last minute is absolutely devastating.



http://www.ashtoncourtfestival.com/


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## editor (Jul 20, 2007)

That's terrible news.


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## xenon (Jul 20, 2007)

So the last band I saw there was Simple Minds.


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## Sunspots (Jul 20, 2007)

xenon_2 said:
			
		

> So the last band I saw there was Simple Minds.



_That_ is, indeed, terrible news.


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## djbombscare (Jul 21, 2007)

I cant really resist any longer. But Although its a shame  I cnat help but feel that they sold out and got what they deserve. 

And when I drove past and saw that they shut the Ashton underpass just so that they could fill a roundabout with police cars and vans. The roundabout being. . might I add 150 yards from a police station where they have a HUGE CAR PARK  There was os many of em I thought that they had got corporate sponsorship from the local Hedlu

Nope its all over the top bollox and now ruined by the organisers, council, and old bill. Fuck em all. 

Free parties are best anyway

A couple of transits. . .  a generator, and a rig ?

I make that rave o'clock





And none of this juggling unicycle multi coloured trumpet blowing rave tricyle stuff either.

Proper lost somwhere, off yer tits on Rhubarbs, following the sound of the bass, and some sort of searchlight looking thing on the horizon 

It could be a rave or might be a lighthouse with a fog horn

Needless to say either would be more fun than an orange spacehopper  










Dya think it was  "who wants an Avon Somerset Gloucestershire Wiltshire and S Wales constabulary Hedlu, not spaced up on drugs "just say no" and providing its done in a prohibited and safe area. . bouncy thing ?? "


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## Geri (Jul 21, 2007)

I feel sad but not really surprised. It says a lot when they manage to piss off regulars who have been going for 15 or 20 years.


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## djbombscare (Jul 21, 2007)

Fizzer was a regular since she was a kid, going every year. This year is the first year she hasn't been. She used to love it.

She was so pissed at what they had done to it, that it made her not want to go. There was no way no matter who was playing that she would have gone. Even if it was a £1. 

Its a pity cos they ruined something that was for the community by not catering or listening to the community. Much the same as the govt then innit. 

All this "not for profit" bollox thing as well, I can start a not for profit orgainsation today and still pay myself 100k a year from it. Plus a share of any profits made equally divided amongst the appointed trustees. 

AFAIK it only has to be one representative from the community and all they would have to recieve is a £1 from the profits for it to be NFP community based. 

Does anyone have any info as to what they put back into the community ?


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## Isambard (Jul 21, 2007)

djbombscare said:
			
		

> There was os many of em I thought that they had got corporate sponsorship from the local Hedlu




Whoop! Whoop! It's the sound of the heddlu! 
Whoop! Whoop! I'm munted, gotta chew.

Whoop! Whoop! It's the sound of the heddlu! 
Whoop! Whoop! God I hate these portaloos.


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## Iam (Jul 21, 2007)

djbombscare said:
			
		

> Free parties are best anyway
> 
> A couple of transits. . .  a generator, and a rig ?
> 
> I make that rave o'clock


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## JTG (Jul 23, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> That's terrible news.



they fucked it up a few years ago, or started to do so. I find it hard to be upset at the final rites being administered now. they killed my festival a while back.


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## Jografer (Jul 23, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> they fucked it up a few years ago, or started to do so. I find it hard to be upset at the final rites being administered now. they killed my festival a while back.



then start up one yourself....


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## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2007)

What a stupid post, get back to Russia nazi!


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## Crispy (Jul 23, 2007)

Jografer said:
			
		

> then start up one yourself....


I imagine there'll be something, but the licensing situation makes it much more difficult than it used to be to do this sort of thing on the straight and level.


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## JTG (Jul 23, 2007)

Jografer said:
			
		

> then start up one yourself....



that is the single most stupid comment posted on the whole saga.

it's even more stupid than the argument which says the people criticising the organisers don't care about the festival and are responsible for its demise.

well done, have a biscuit.


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## Hollis (Jul 24, 2007)

http://www.ashtoncourtfestival.com/ABOUT_US/

Breakdown of expenses if it'd worked out.. £600k now, £42k 15 years ago.. hmm.


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## Isambard (Jul 24, 2007)

1200% in costs but a what 1000+% (can someone do the maths) in ticket costs, PLUS of course the commerical sponsorship monies that were coming in.


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## Hollis (Jul 24, 2007)

Yes - but if your basic costs are rising, what are they meant to do?  Its noticable that there's a total lack of grants in their funding..

Even Kingston Green Fair, which is far smaller than Ashton Court, charges these days.


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## tarannau (Jul 24, 2007)

Scary and quite depressing financials there. 50k on the site clean up fees alone!

I actually feel pretty bad for the organisers - 30+ years of putting that event on and they'd little option to but to pay out those ever escalating fees and jump more licensing hoops, cross their fingers and hoped it worked out, knowing that every extra regulation pissed off more of the festival crowd. It must have seemed a long step away from when they wanted to set up a free festival and rely on more informal arrangements. 

Short of a hugely generous sponsor, with all the commercial compromises that'd involve, there seems little way they could have made money. They still needed a hugely optimistic 50% of revenue to come from entrance fees - which is way beyond 1 out of 3 punters dumping a couple of squid in donation buckets on the way out. Which I'm sad to say is all I did on the times I went - the punters always assume the cost is covered.

The organisers were always on a hiding to nothing imo. A pretty thankless task all round.


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## Isambard (Jul 24, 2007)

The costs are rising and that's a general problem with commericalisation and "safety culture" and the police and the liscensing etc etc. 

But the ticket prices have been rising, the rent they make off the stalls has been rising and Orange came along with sponsorship.

What just about everyone I know wanted from the festival and the way it was going drifted in different directions. The organisers tried to square a circle with appeals to our sense of community whilst at the same time getting shafted by North Somerset Council and the police.

No BYOB to make it more "family friendly", my arse.
Haven't seen such patent lying in a long time.

If it was a thankless task Tarannau, maybe they should have cancelled and walked away in January?


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## tarannau (Jul 24, 2007)

No, but it's worth noting that the council tried that restriction on us in Lambeth as well, the implication being being that you couldn't trust a festival crowd not to bring in so much cheap booze that they'd inevitably get pissed and rowdy, necessitating a more expensive police presence. Crap of course, but faced with financial meltdown I can't blame the organisers for taking the easiest route

How would you have made it work Isambard? I'm looking at those figures and thinking I'd rather fold than even attempt to make it work. Perhaps that's the gameplan in some ways - faced with a jobsworth council, impossible costs and a growing sense of dissatisfaction, perhaps the only way to bring the problems to wider attention was to let the whole thing break down. If they'd have walked away and let the thing fold nothing would have been achieved, no statement made.


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## Crispy (Jul 24, 2007)

I'd throw a massive rave, declare bankruptcy  and go down in a blaze of glory/court hearings.


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## tarannau (Jul 24, 2007)

I think, in essence, that's pretty much what they did. I suspect that the ticket fees just about paid the advanced licensing fees to allow the event to go ahead .... and then the weather ripped away any chance they had of throwing a mighty party.


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## Isambard (Jul 24, 2007)

tarannau said:
			
		

> No, but it's worth noting that the council tried that restriction on us in Lambeth as well, the implication being being that you couldn't trust a festival crowd not to bring in so much cheap booze that they'd inevitably get pissed and rowdy
> 
> 
> How would you have made it work Isambard?





There were already restrictions previously on what you could bring in, no more than 8 containers, no container larger than 1 litre IIRC. 
And YES, there were searches at the gates.

This year's NO drink was therefore NOT about cutting down drunken behaviour but about extracting more money.

What would I have done? I'd have liked to have thought I would have the conviction to walk away. There are plenty of people who are a LOT more qualified to speak than me (waves to a lovely booted lady in South Bristol  ) but to be honest after last year I kind of gave up on it anyway.


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## Hollis (Jul 24, 2007)

I wouldn't really blame the management committee.. in the end they tried to keep something going that was a no-go, due to lack of support from elsewhere.

In the end it failed to be a free community festival, while not sticking up fees enough to ensure its survival as just another paying festival.. it fell between 2stools possibly.

The real fault imo, rests with the council etc. and whoever should have been funding/underwriting the thing.


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## Isambard (Jul 24, 2007)

Sure, but don't LIE to me!

Option A. No BYOB cos A&S police are making it a condition of our licence and we are financially fucked and need money from the stall holders.

Option B. No BYOB cos we want to make the festival "family friendly".


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## JTG (Jul 24, 2007)

Isambard said:
			
		

> Sure, but don't LIE to me!
> 
> Option A. No BYOB cos A&S police are making it a condition of our licence and we are financially fucked and need money from the stall holders.
> 
> Option B. No BYOB cos we want to make the festival "family friendly".



precisely. more honesty and it would have provoked a more favourable response from me


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## Hollis (Jul 24, 2007)

Gerry1time said:
			
		

> Not having a go at anyone here, but I dunno, it's just been a bit odd to see keyboard heroes all over the web attacking these people, when so much of what has been said isn't true, and the opportunities to get involved and help make things better are plentiful!



..well put.


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## JTG (Jul 25, 2007)

Hollis said:
			
		

> ..well put.



you could only get involved if you wanted to do it the organisers' way though. Ask the club promoters.

talk of keyboard heroes is just a shit argument really - these keyboard heroes are the people the festival is supposed to be appealing to, if it isn't then the festival is doing something wrong. simple as.


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## Hollis (Jul 25, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> talk of keyboard heroes is just a shit argument really - these keyboard heroes are the people the festival is supposed to be appealing to, if it isn't then the festival is doing something wrong. simple as.



Nah - I'm just interested in what they'd have done so differently.. given the basic costs (and they say the size hasn't increased significantly in the last 10-15 years). Maybe they should have folded the thing up when costs increased.

Clearly what most people wanted was a free/low cost festival.  They didn't appear to be able to deliver it.

Be interesting to know how Strawberry Fair manages.. there's not exactly many of the things around.


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## Isambard (Jul 25, 2007)

Hollis, that argument assumes that the critics don't do other stuff in their communities which is of course, bollocks. 

But as JTG said even if it were true that everyoe who criticises the way things have gone were "merely" a consumer; then surely they are also the people the festival organisers want to attract.


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## Geri (Jul 25, 2007)

Isambard said:
			
		

> Sure, but don't LIE to me!
> 
> Option A. No BYOB cos A&S police are making it a condition of our licence and we are financially fucked and need money from the stall holders.
> 
> Option B. No BYOB cos we want to make the festival "family friendly".



Exactly. Why did they just not say it was A in the first place? Why all this crap about "canvassing people for their opinions", and "this was what they wanted"?

Being straight with people is the far better option.


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## big eejit (Jul 26, 2007)

It's a bit of a pisser that events that bring people into the city like the balloon and harbourside festivals seem to survive ok, while events for the local community like Ashton Court flounder.

Anyone know how much subsidy these events get in comparison to AC?


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## Geri (Jul 26, 2007)

big eejit said:
			
		

> It's a bit of a pisser that events that bring people into the city like the balloon and harbourside festivals seem to survive ok, while events for the local community like Ashton Court flounder.



Er, I think it's the other way round.  Certainly the Harbourside Festival is mostly locals, I don't usually go to the Balloon Fiesta so I can't comment on that, and Ashton Court tended (in later years anyway) to attract people from a much wider area.


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## big eejit (Jul 26, 2007)

Yeah but AC attracts undesirables from out of town, not nice families with lots of cash to spend in our fair city!


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## Gerry1time (Jul 26, 2007)

Mentioned before, but i was brought in by jenny and steve to help with the web stuff a few weeks before the festival. Too late in some ways, but that's by the by. 

It was really interesting to meet them in the weeks beforehand and hear their sides of the story direct. The booze thing, and i absolutely promise this, was a combination of feedback wanting fewer drunken wreck heads around (from artists, volunteers and the public) and the police requiring it. They're not mutually exclusive, and i did see the feedback forms they had in the office that indicated this. 

Not saying that the PR couldn't have been handled better for it, if i'd run it i would have done all kinds of things differently, but with them making a minimal percentage off the bar profits, and knowing full well it would put people off, it really wasn't about making more money. They knew full well that if anything it risked making them less. 

The other element i saw a lot of was them surfing the web and reading the stuff written about the festival/them personally and getting upset by it. Not referring to urban here, they didn't know of it as it turned out, but other bristol forums, and things like the BBC site were regularly checked. They also got lots of horrible and really personal emails direct to their inboxes too. There were times people battled them over stuff, then disappeared when they invited them in to see for themselves (mainly things like the accounts and the like), hence my saying 'keyboard heroes'. You can't email someone to accuse them of being misleading over the accounts, then just disappear when they offer to go through them with you face to face. 

I'm gutted the festival's gone. I think there were mistakes made, primarily not knowing what sort of festival to put on (who was, or should have been , their audience?). If they'd seen the people who were complaining online as their audience, then they would have expected no one to turn up on the saturday. To be honest i half expected it to be empty having seen the stuff online. But it wasn't, it sold well, and if it hadn't have been for the rain, then we'd still have the festival, probably in better shape than before.

Sorry for the rant, i'm not entirely defending what happened, as i said, i could see and can see things that could have been done a whole lot differently and better. But seeing what those guys went through to keep it running this year, they personally have nothing but my complete and utter respect.


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## Giles (Jul 27, 2007)

A genuine question about the common festie issue of "bringing your own booze" v. having to pay £3++ for a every drink:

I can see why the powers that be like the idea of people not bringing their own, because they can control to some extent how pissed people can get, and specifically have a closing time after which they can be fairly sure people have stopped drinking.

But I can also see why the sheer cost of this puts off those on a budget - a day of drinking at full bar prices (or more!) is f***ing expensive.

And yet surely a compromise is possible: It cannot cost much to have a basic beer tent selling cold cans from bins full of ice. 

Surely someone could make it pay, flogging cold tinnies for no more than £2 each, or 3 for a fiver, squat party stylee? 

That way, more people wouldn't be so upset at a BYOB ban, and the cops / council etc would still have the "control" that they want. 

And given the wholesale price of slabs, you would still make money, so long as you weren't being greedy......

Giles..


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

Why *should* someone make it pay?


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

i would have thought that them stopping byob and just having tents selling at extortionate prices was more about profit than limiting the amount people drink


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Why *should* someone make it pay?




who let you back in  

its all about the money

if its not profitable its not going to happen, no matter what good intentions and hard work go into it


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

Well, _it didn't work_ on that basis. Because people like me boycotted it. It shut down. I don't argue that the two are directly causal  but the certainly are in part.

I let myself in. Things.


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

Well be careful what Things you let yourself into, some may be dangerous.

do you think ashton court festival went up its own bumhole trying to be something its not? i think that might be a factor too, i never saw it in the early days...i was probably part of its demise  but what i saw wasn't much to do with bristol or bristol people...there just happened to be a lot of them there.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

120 000 people over the weekend minimum with bands that were my mates headlining playing for free to this shambles in a very short time. In that intervening time people like simple minds being paid 20 grand to appear and figures dropping....

I do think that they were postioning it to be a readings style money maker in future years. In fact, i'm 100% sure of it. But they fucked it up - for all of us.


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

but the people can rise again! 

or not cos anyone that tries is gonna get mr policeman telling them to turn that racket down


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

Youre such a pessimist, dude, youre bringing me down


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## Crispy (Jul 27, 2007)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Why *should* someone make it pay?


well they should certainly try and make it cover costs, which it's been struggling to do for years now.


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> well they should certainly try and make it cover costs, which it's been struggling to do for years now.




hmm did they try to cut costs? more locals bands, less big headliners?


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> well they should certainly try and make it cover costs, which it's been struggling to do for years now.



It didn't work. It was never going to. They fucked off everyone who did the usual fund rasing rounds.  Why and how? Why did they lose the community that had supported it over the previous decades?


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

cos they didnt support the community?


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> well they should certainly try and make it cover costs, which it's been struggling to do for years now.




And to be clear that was a ref to alcohol, not the festuival as a whole.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

Callie said:
			
		

> cos they didnt support the community?



Because they became about something else. Not what the thing was set up for and had run for all those years for. So yes. In broad brush strokes.


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

Ive got a broom specially for that see, big sweeping generalisations


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

Missed me, i was hiding in the cracks of pedantica!


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

haha 

you what? is pedantica a boat?


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

It can be. It's multi-use.


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## Callie (Jul 27, 2007)

no really, i dont know what you mean by that comment!

and yes I have missed you, theres no one else id rather blather with about things i know nothing about


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

Callie said:
			
		

> no really, i dont know what you mean by that comment!
> 
> and yes I have missed you, theres no one else id rather blather with about things i know nothing about



You and him down the harbour side for kid carpet tommorow? (5.15)We shall be there, wouldn't say no to a pint and a natter...:


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## Crispy (Jul 27, 2007)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> And to be clear that was a ref to alcohol, not the festival as a whole.


*waggles hand* nah, I think you have to pass pros and cons around the whole operation, for efficiency. The more you split a project up, the fewer opportunities you have to move spare resources around (money, time, skills, labour). eg. It woulud be silly to split up the wine, beer, cider and spirits bars, because they will have different profit margins and replicated tasks - far better to join them together as a single project and average things out. It also makes sense to consider the festival as a whole operation, able to distribute its excesses to meet its deficiencies.

It's getting late, I've turned this post into some rant about division of labour. I need another glass of wine and some kittens.


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## Giles (Jul 27, 2007)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> And to be clear that was a ref to alcohol, not the festuival as a whole.



Yeah, this was my point: Even if you sold cans three for £5, you would be at least doubling the purchase price, so you should make easily enough to pay staff, pay for fridges, bins full of ice, a tent, etc, and maybe some over. 

But it would still be cheap enough not to p*ss off a lot of people, if combined with a policy of not letting people bring their own......

Giles..


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

They couldn't bootleg their own festival Giles.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> *waggles hand* nah, I think you have to pass pros and cons around the whole operation, for efficiency. The more you split a project up, the fewer opportunities you have to move spare resources around (money, time, skills, labour). eg. It woulud be silly to split up the wine, beer, cider and spirits bars, because they will have different profit margins and replicated tasks - far better to join them together as a single project and average things out. It also makes sense to consider the festival as a whole operation, able to distribute its excesses to meet its deficiencies.
> 
> It's getting late, I've turned this post into some rant about division of labour. I need another glass of wine and some kittens.



Maybe, divving it up doesn't mean that each subdivison will be done right and become super-efficient. It just makes more fuck ups if you've got incompetents running it.


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## Gerry1time (Jul 28, 2007)

Callie said:
			
		

> i would have thought that them stopping byob and just having tents selling at extortionate prices was more about profit than limiting the amount people drink



Please read what i wrote just above, i promise you so much the booze thing wasn't about the money, really. 

Someone selling booze at cost price is a good idea, but a big part of the risk of a festival is the alcohol license, under the new rules especially. One nominated person has to be personally responsible for alcohol on the site, and therefore all problems associated therewith.

Really, i'd heard that the new licensing laws were causing problems for events nowadays, but Ashton Court really opened my eyes to just what seems to happen to events now.

(and i also got the impression that at times they would have loved to have done as well as Reading or whatever, but stuck with ACF cos they loved it.)


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## Callie (Jul 28, 2007)

why do you think that is Gerry1time?

are these laws new in this year? do you think they aim to shut down things like ACF or is all all just for the good of the punters and those that live near by (very upset by being kept awake for two nights per year)

st pauls carnivals going the same way isnt it?


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## Crispy (Jul 28, 2007)

So the licensee can sell cans of beer out of 24 packs too.


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## Giles (Jul 28, 2007)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> They couldn't bootleg their own festival Giles.



I wasn't suggesting this. I just fail to understand why booze on site HAS to be sold at £3 + per drink, when it ought to be possible to sell cans for £2 and STILL make a decent margin, thereby keeping more of your prospective "punters" happy and yet having some control over amount sold, and who it is sold to.

Instead of outsourcing the beer tent to a local publican or whoever, who will undoubtedly charge as much as he can get away with, the organisers should keep control of this and keep the cost down while ensuring that whatever profit IS made goes to the festival's other costs, as opposed to into the pocket of the  company or person you have outsourced the bar to.

Giles..


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## Isambard (Jul 29, 2007)

I run bars at a few not for profit events and involved (albeit on the fringes) of working at 2 community festivals locally. Running your own bar with 3 cans for a fiver from a bucket of ice sounds cool but it is unlikely to work.
I won't say theft per se, just "shrinkage" of the take and the stock.

I remember turning in my takings the first time I ran a remote bar like that and the organisers were amazed at the money. Cos I didn't give all my mates free drinks, guzzle them all myself or skim the till.

If you rent out stalls to publicans and brewery companies you get hard cash and it is up to them  to make the money. 

The stall holders moan the rent is too high and people bring their own drinks.
Festival goers moan the drinks are too dear at the stalls and swear to only ever bring their own. There is a happy medium to be found in theory.

I'm just back from a trip to Czech/Slovakia and I saw posters for festivals sponsored by Orange. So we can guess what to expect there in a few years time.


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## Giles (Jul 30, 2007)

Isambard said:
			
		

> I run bars at a few not for profit events and involved (albeit on the fringes) of working at 2 community festivals locally. Running your own bar with 3 cans for a fiver from a bucket of ice sounds cool but it is unlikely to work.
> I won't say theft per se, just "shrinkage" of the take and the stock.
> 
> I remember turning in my takings the first time I ran a remote bar like that and the organisers were amazed at the money. Cos I didn't give all my mates free drinks, guzzle them all myself or skim the till.
> ...



Well, if you don't trust most of your staff, do it like they do at "The Church": you have a big long bar with loads of drinks in ice-filled bins. To get drinks you buy a drinks ticket off one guy, then use this to actually get the drinks. You can also buy these drinks tickets in the queue to get in to the place.

This means that you only have to trust one or two senior peeps with the dosh, and it makes service pretty bloody fast as well.

Most of the staff actually handing out the drinks just take a drinks ticket in exchange for 3 cans or bottles of whatever, no chance of them nicking the dosh, pretty easy to see if they are givin em away free.

Also, I have done "bars" like this at some "unofficial" outdoor parties. If the people doing the bar are (a) your mates and (b) making money for the good of the system/rig who they are part of then you don't get much nicking.

Giles..


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## Isambard (Jul 30, 2007)

I've handled the cash at drinks-ticket events before as well and you are right it is a good system. I dunno if it work for the size of these festivals though.

I don't think there was much more that could have been done really, the police and the council decided to fuck it over and the committee despite their best intentions could not stop that.


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## Callie (Jul 30, 2007)

Isambard said:
			
		

> I've handled the cash at drinks-ticket events before as well and you are right it is a good system. I dunno if it work for the size of these festivals though.




That would be the bestest AC ever - queue to get drink ticket, queue to get drink, drink drink, queue to get drink ticket etc etc 

sorry


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## Isambard (Jul 31, 2007)

Callie said:
			
		

> queue to get drink ticket, queue to get drink, drink drink, queue to get drink ticket etc etc



You could do it while Simple Minds were on!


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