# Old Negatives



## mick2007 (Feb 27, 2011)

I'm a bit of a lurker on here from time to time, but I was wondering if you can help me with this little lot.

I've just acquired some old negs and I really can't seem to place where they are..though they do look familiar.

I've searched for a while now, but to no avail.

I was just wondering if anyone here could identify where these are?

I've checked out most of the towns I could think of that has this kind of architecture..but as of yet nothing has shown up.

Sorry about the poor scans, that is something I should be able to rectify soon.


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 27, 2011)

Very nice.

I'm guessing Chester. A very random guess mind! I'd say that part of the UK. Many cathedrals have lost spires and stuff...

Any more? We all love this old negatives shit


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Love the 2nd pic


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## Paul Russell (Feb 27, 2011)

You'd might get more joy if you stuck this in General!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Found bumph that says there's been a Commercial Hotel in St Peter's churchyard since the 1800s but can't find any pictures that resemble that at all


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

The third picture looks more like a cathedral, and bits of it are similar


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Found bumph that says there's been a Commercial Hotel in St Peter's churchyard since the 1800s but can't find any pictures that resemble that at all


 
Nice idea. The names are always a good pointer. I'm still staying with Chester.

Look for family businesses of Knight and Chadwick.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> The third picture looks more like a cathedral, and bits of it are similar


 
but then maybe lots of cathedrals built around the same time had similar window


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## Paul Russell (Feb 27, 2011)

Second picture, yes, Chester or York. Third picture, an Oxford college. OK, complete guesses really.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> Nice idea. The names are always a good pointer. I'm still staying with Chester.
> 
> Look for family businesses of Knight and Chadwick.


 
Gave up on Knight and Chadwick as I just kept ending up in America and other far flung places


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Gave up on Knight and Chadwick as I just kept ending up in America and other far flung places


 
You're doing it wrong. I get good Google results that say Chester. Chadwicks - large arable farming family. Knight - just stinking rich bastards basically. Anyway, all says Chester.

I'd like to play more internet, but I've just been targeted by a bunch of wronguns here. 6 of them, just 1 of me. Not even I am that stupid!

Try Google...

Chadwick, chester, family, knight...

Or, summat like that. Remeber to use the commas!


e2a; All is cool. A Policia Nacional van just turned up exactly when I wanted them. Only free WiFi I can find here, but I'm a bit exposed!


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 27, 2011)

Whilst I'm on the subject...

Put me blindfold in any city in Spain and I will tell you exactly where I am and where the the church bells were cast!

Take my blindfold off and I will tell which stone mason carved what and where they worked previously and afterwards.

It's not clever stuff. Just about looking and listening.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

I'm nor looking for that.  I'm looking for the hotel itself


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## miss minnie (Feb 27, 2011)

1st picture I googled for over an hour looking for an image of the distinctive buttressed steeple on the far left with nothing bearing even a close resemblance.

2nd picture... reminds me of Wells?

3rd picture... not a very big cathedral, perhaps just a big church?


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## Mrs Magpie (Feb 27, 2011)

Remember, they're pretty old...could be pre-Baedeker raids.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> 1st picture I googled for over an hour looking for an image of the distinctive buttressed steeple on the far left with nothing bearing even a close resemblance.
> 
> 2nd picture... reminds me of Wells?
> 
> 3rd picture... not a very big cathedral, perhaps just a big church?


 
Have to bear in mind a lot of churches lost their steeples though

I'm still at it.  Starting to get annoyed now.

Have just been on google maps looking for the Commercial Hotel and whilst it's not right near St Peter's Church, maybe when the picture was taken, the grounds of the church were larger.  However, the Hotel looks right near the Church.  Maybe the Hotel itself was relocated?  Also, I think one of the churches (but I've forgotten which one) had a pyramidial spire added in the late 1800s

Anyway, I'm now concentrating on the big window and doorway of that third picture and it's doing my brain in 

Also need to bear in mind churches that may have been damaged during WWII and not renovated to the old style


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## miss minnie (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Have to bear in mind a lot of churches lost their steeples though
> 
> I'm still at it.  Starting to get annoyed now.
> 
> ...


They may well have lost steeples etc. but it doesn't mean that images of them with their steeples don't exist.


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 27, 2011)

It could very well be Coventry.

Same builders and stuff as Chester, but I am fairly sure this is Coventry.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> It could very well be Coventry.
> 
> Same builders and stuff as Chester, but I am fairly sure this is Coventry.



Yeah, I've been looking at Coventry, especially as it sustained huge amounts of damage during WWII 

I'm bored of looking at cathedrals and have moved on to Abbeys.  Bath Abbey has a similar window.  

Does anyone know what this style of window is called?


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## Mrs Magpie (Feb 27, 2011)

mick2007 said:


>



 Is this the same view from the opposite viewpoint, plus more modern buildings?

...I'm trying to match up the two spires


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## Mrs Magpie (Feb 27, 2011)

If so, it is Coventry.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Is this the same view from the opposite viewpoint, plus more modern buildings?
> 
> ...I'm trying to match up the two spires



The steeple at the forefront or rear of the picture?  The one at the front (ie. the tallest one) looks like it's on a square tower

Although the very sharp pointy one looks like it could be the same steeple


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## miss minnie (Feb 27, 2011)

Coventry Cathedral, good match Mrs M


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## killer b (Feb 27, 2011)

i think you've got it mrs magpie - looks pretty much bang on...


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## cybertect (Feb 27, 2011)

mrs c, a Coventrian, has identified two of them as pre-war Coventry

[I already had a hunch it might be Cov and worth asking her]

The first one is Christchurch, Greyfriars

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/tour/christchurch.php






The second one is St Mary's Hall, at the back of the cathedral [flipped over in your neg]




Bayley Lane, Coventry by amandabhslater, on Flickr

e2a: seems you've already got close.

The third one is probably Trinity Church on Trinity Street


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

This is similar to third picture but don't think it's it


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## miss minnie (Feb 27, 2011)

> The Project Gutenberg EBook of Bell's Cathedrals: The Churches of Coventry, by
> Frederic W.  Woodhouse
> 
> This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with
> ...


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## cybertect (Feb 27, 2011)

Strike Trinity for the third.

It's St John the Baptist on Spon Street






http://www.francisfrith.com/coventry/photos/church-of-st-john-the-baptist-c1884_17127p/


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## mick2007 (Feb 27, 2011)

This is amazing..but every time I try to reply the board locks up...

I'll just try this one first.


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## StoneRoad (Feb 27, 2011)

Top picture - I am almost certain is Coventry, the butressed spire is on the cathederal that was bombed out in ww2, and the closer church is prob greyfriars.

That's all I can help with at the moment, I should recognise the second one, but can't place it? and the third is also familiar!


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## Paul Russell (Feb 27, 2011)

Good detective work.
One at front here (St Michael's) is the one at back in the first photo, isn't it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/coventry/content/image_galleries/archive_photographs_places_gallery.shtml?8

Edit: there were about 6 posts while I was typing that. Cool.


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 27, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> If so, it is Coventry.


 
Yay! We are brill. Give us new challenge


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## cybertect (Feb 27, 2011)

cybertect said:


> It's St John the Baptist on Spon Street
> 
> ...
> 
> http://www.francisfrith.com/coventry/photos/church-of-st-john-the-baptist-c1884_17127p/


 
Interestingly, in the Frith photo I linked to, which dates from 1884, the buttress to the clerestory on the left is present. Presumably it was added to strengthen the structure.

In your picture, it's not there. So your photo looks like it was taken before 1884.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Actually, I *may* be right, but I've been looking for churches that have extensions to the left (as we face the main window)


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Strike Trinity for the third.
> 
> It's St John the Baptist on Spon Street
> 
> ...



Beat you to it.


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## cybertect (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Beat you to it.


 



Minnie_the_Minx said:


> This is similar to third picture* but don't think it's it*


 
[emphasis added] 

and we got the first two 

Anyhow, a better image


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## Paul Russell (Feb 27, 2011)

Sorry if I'm being dense here, but are either of the two spires in the top pic in the original post still standing, or were they bombed, or demolished, etc.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> Yay! We are brill. Give us new challenge



You seemed quite adamant it was Chester


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

cybertect said:


> [emphasis added]
> 
> and we got the first two
> 
> Anyhow, a better image


 

Yeah, but that was before I saw the black and white picture.

Piss off, you Johnny-come-lately.  I've been sitting here since 6 a fucking clock looking at church windows.  Hands off my church!!

*Walking into thread and getting it within no time at all*


It does look like there's a building/wing on the side coming forward though doesn't it?  (In the main picture I mean)


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You seemed quite adamant it was Chester


 
I said Coventry before anyone else 

Think you will find both cathedrals were built by the same people. Literally, the same people.

They are/were very similar. The spires were both lost


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Also, can't remember what this feature's called, but you can't see it in the colour pictures, only the B&W ones


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> I said Coventry before anyone else
> 
> Think you will find both cathedrals were built by the same people. Literally, the same people.
> 
> They are/were very similar. The spires were both lost


 
I long gave up on Chester


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## cybertect (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> It does look like there's a building/wing on the side coming forward though doesn't it?  (In the main picture I mean)


 
If I understand what you're referring to - the right-hand edge of the church in the OP's photo, I wonder if it's just a ragged edge of a partly-reworked stone wall.

http://www.stjohn-the-baptist.co.uk/about.htm




			
				St John's church web site said:
			
		

> Due to the danger of flooding, the floor level was raised, which resulted in the lower parts of the windows being blocked out and hiding the bases of the columns. Galleries and pews were subsequently installed, with a huge canopied pulpit adjoining the north-west nave arch, but no altar. Restoration work was done between 1858 and 1861 by George Gilbert Scott, but it had to be halted due to high poverty in the City. Restoration resumed in 1875 and continued until 1877.



I suspect that this suggests the photo was taken some time between 1858 and 1877.


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## miss minnie (Feb 27, 2011)

Paul Russell said:


> Sorry if I'm being dense here, but are either of the two spires in the top pic in the original post still standing, or were they bombed, or demolished, etc.


Christchurch Spire 2008 click for google streetview


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## cybertect (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Also, can't remember what this feature's called, but you can't see it in the colour pictures, only the B&W ones


 
Crenellations (or Battlement)

I imagine they didn't survive WWII and money was tight after to put them back.


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## cybertect (Feb 27, 2011)

Paul Russell said:


> Sorry if I'm being dense here, but are either of the two spires in the top pic in the original post still standing, or were they bombed, or demolished, etc.


 
As mrs c points out, Coventry is (still) known as 'The City of Three Spires'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry




			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> The spire of the ruined cathedral forms one of the "three spires" which have dominated the city skyline since the 14th century, the others being those of Christ Church (of which only the spire survives) and Holy Trinity Church (which is still in use).


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## miss minnie (Feb 27, 2011)

Coventry Cathedral google streetview


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

cybertect said:


> If I understand what you're referring to - the right-hand edge of the church in the OP's photo, I wonder if it's just a ragged edge of a partly-reworked stone wall.
> 
> http://www.stjohn-the-baptist.co.uk/about.htm
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, read that and thought maybe that was what happened.  Has quite a history.  Furthermore:



> Founded in May 1344 by Queen Isabella, it was consecrated in 1350 and subsequently enlarged over the next century or so to the completed structure with which we're familiar today. During the 16th century when the monasteries were dissolved by King Henry VIII, the Guilds were also suppressed and that deprived St. John's church of its prime function. With only irregular use for worship over the following century, the most (in)famous function of the church was its time spent being used as a prison for the captured Royalist soldiers in 1648 during the English civil war - *an action often associated with the expression "Sent to Coventry".... but is that the truth?*


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Crenellations (or Battlement)
> 
> I imagine they didn't survive WWII and money was tight after to put them back.


 
That's it.  I call them walls that archers hide behind because I can't remember the name


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I long gave up on Chester


 
Well. yep. It`s not a great place.

One of the things I got out of walking caminos was understadning that I was following the footsteps of itinerants from long ago. Stone masons mostly. They have left their mark! I loved the idea of following thier work as it developed.

Leon has a fab cathedral. Very similar to Burgos, but with different light.

Ande, so it was that the masons, labourers and orther skilled craftspeoplñe of thier day built Coventry for a few years, then moved onto Chester. Same plan. Same work. Different city.


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 27, 2011)

Fuck this keypad! Way to small.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> Well. yep. It`s not a great place.
> 
> One of the things I got out of walking caminos was understadning that I was following the footsteps of itinerants from long ago. Stone masons mostly. They have left their mark! I loved the idea of following thier work as it developed.
> 
> ...


 
My b/f's dad was a stonemason.  He left his mark everywhere he worked as well


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## miss minnie (Feb 27, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> Ande, so it was that the masons, labourers and orther skilled craftspeoplñe of thier day built Coventry for a few years, then moved onto Chester. Same plan. Same work. Different city.


It took centuries to build a medieval cathedral, generations of the same family would continue to work on a single cathedral, only moving if the funds to pay them ran out.


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## Paul Russell (Feb 27, 2011)

cybertect said:


> As mrs c points out, Coventry is (still) known as 'The City of Three Spires'
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry



Thanks cybertect, miss minnie


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## Paul Russell (Feb 27, 2011)

I get obsessed by old photos. I spent days tracking down the site of this in Bournemouth:

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10307737&screenwidth=1024

Unfortunately, it is completely different now and re-landscaped and the cliffs degraded - only the diagonally sloping wall is still there - I identified it by matching up the shapes of the individual stones in the wall from a high res photo.

OK, carry on.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Paul Russell said:


> I get obsessed by old photos. I spent days tracking down the site of this in Bournemouth:
> 
> http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10307737&screenwidth=1024
> 
> ...


 
That's desperate but fair play to you!


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## Paul Russell (Feb 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> That's desperate but fair play to you!


 
Yeah, I know. Thing is, it's by quite a famous photographer, who died quite suddenly and young, and many of his images were incorrectly captioned in his books.

This one is captioned as being in Bournemouth and I started off doing a bit of "research" based on my theory that it definitely wasn't Bournemouth. But in the end I found out that it was, and found the exact spot. So felt I had achieved something in a saddo way!


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## Mrs Magpie (Feb 27, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> Yay! We are brill. Give us new challenge


Well, I followed your lead, Stanley and got googling..


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## miss minnie (Feb 27, 2011)

Paul Russell said:


> Yeah, I know. Thing is, it's by quite a famous photographer, who died quite suddenly and young, and many of his images were incorrectly captioned in books.
> 
> This one is captioned as being in Bournemouth and I started off doing a bit of "research" based on my theory that it definitely wasn't Bournemouth. But in the end I found out that it was, and found the exact spot. So felt I had achieved something in a saddo way!


Verifying the internet, image by image   *salutes*


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 27, 2011)

I have an old book of photographs and drawings of the buildings of Coventry as they were in the early 1900s. It looked wonderful and nothing like how it is now thanks to the German bombing and the post war re-development. I couldn't find the book when it crossed my mind that those negatives were from Coventry.

 I have been to Coventry a couple of times by train. You have to walk in a concrete passage to get to the town centre from the station. It keeps you from the traffic but it is not wonderful.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 27, 2011)

Paul Russell said:


> So felt I had achieved something in a saddo way!


 

That's how I feel when I get a picture that's been posted after hunting for hours

































until someone straight into the thread and gets it within minutes


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## miss minnie (Feb 28, 2011)

Double/triple posting is due to the occasional hiccup on the server unfortunately.

While googling that image I came across this one:


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## miss minnie (Feb 28, 2011)

> Old Ford’s Hospital Interior
> 
> THE interior of the court is also good. The English note is once more struck in the old garden beyond with its flags and lupins, and Christ Church spire in the background.



Lots of pics of streets long since demolished here


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## mick2007 (Feb 28, 2011)

I kept on trying to reply earlier on but my posts just didn't seem to appear for some strange reason?

You have no idea how exciting I found all that!...h'mm.

No I had been trying for ages to locate those photographs. One of things I was trying to say was they should all be the same place. In the end that turned out to be correct.

I tried everything I could with old Chadwick Knight and his Commercial Hotel, but I couldn't locate anything.

Now much to my annoyance a few others got a way from under my nose this morning which is a shame.

Though I do have a copy of one of them.






My guess is this could be the wrong way around..right I just want to see if I can post this before I type anymore..


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## miss minnie (Feb 28, 2011)




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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 28, 2011)

Mick is apparently the last poster on this thread and yet I can't see anything

*testing*


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## miss minnie (Feb 28, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Mick is apparently the last poster on this thread and yet I can't see anything
> 
> *testing*


You've gone blind!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 28, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> You've gone blind!


 
My post is the last post but it was saying Mick was the last person to post so I was expecting a Mick post to be here but it's not.  This happened before didn't it


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## mick2007 (Feb 28, 2011)

All my posts don't show unless they are a few words like this..I've been trying to reply with info all day.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 28, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> All my posts don't show unless they are a few words like this..I've been trying to reply with info all day.



This one is showing as you being the last poster (obviously not now though 'cos I've posted!)


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## mick2007 (Feb 28, 2011)

Super thanks everyone by the way..I just had to watch!..every time I posted anything it didn't show..just like before.


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## cybertect (Feb 28, 2011)

Anyhow, the next question is... do you have any more of these or was it just those three?


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## Stanley Edwards (Feb 28, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> It took centuries to build a medieval cathedral, generations of the same family would continue to work on a single cathedral, only moving if the funds to pay them ran out.



It still takes centuries to build some cathedrals. It was/is the stonemasons that apply the finishing touches who travelled from city to city for work. I know someone working on the Guadi cathedral in Barcelona. He has a collection of traditional tools to create new stone work in an authentic style. Gaudi's vision was based on the technology of his day. Not sure, but I think they're still 50 years, or so from completing it.

I'm currently in Melilla. This place is a bit of a gem for architecture fans. Lots of modernist stuff mixed up with traditional Muslim, Jewish and colonial Spain. A bit rough around the edges due to sea winds and sun, but some fantastic buildings behind the pealing paint.


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## Crispy (Feb 28, 2011)

Sorry mick - our anti-spam filter (that is automatically applied to newbies) kept holding your posts for moderation (it was the heavy use of images). I've approved it now 

Stanley - They're building Sagrada Familia much much quicker than they could 100 years ago. These days, they can get computers to do a lot of the stone carving. Gaudi was using lots of mathematical surfaces in his later work, so it's very easy for computers to model and manufacture.


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## cybertect (Feb 28, 2011)

Ah - I see this post now!



mick2007 said:


> Now much to my annoyance a few others got a way from under my nose this morning which is a shame.
> 
> Though I do have a copy of one of them.
> 
> ...


 
Looks like another one from Coventry: Ford's Hospital on Greyfriars Lane

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/nowandthen/fords-hosp.php

and yes, I think it is flipped.

e2a: 

The forum is acting very strange today.

Minnie's post identifying Ford's was most definitely *not* there when I posted this.


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## cybertect (Feb 28, 2011)

BTW, mick, I think you have some very early photos of Coventry here.

This engraving, which is apparently dated 1829, has buildings on both sides of Ford's

http://www.heatons-of-tisbury.co.uk/warwickshire.htm






but the lower one is gone in every other 19th century photo I've found of it so far online.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 28, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Double/triple posting is due to the occasional hiccup on the server unfortunately.


 


miss minnie said:


> Lots of pics of streets long since demolished here


 


mick2007 said:


> I kept on trying to reply earlier on but my posts just didn't seem to appear for some strange reason?
> 
> You have no idea how exciting I found all that!...h'mm.
> 
> ...


 


miss minnie said:


>



WTF:  None of these posts were here last night.  I've read Crispy's epxlanation as to why Mick's weren't appearing, but Miss Minnie's pictures weren't there last night either


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## miss minnie (Feb 28, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> WTF:  None of these posts were here last night.  I've read Crispy's epxlanation as to why Mick's weren't appearing, but Miss Minnie's pictures weren't there last night either


 
I didn't notice that Mick's posts were being held in a moderation queue, I'm guessing that my replies to his 'invisible' posts were also invisible until released by Crispy?  There were also some server problems (slow responses) leading to double posts (happened to me on another thread) which confused things even more.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 28, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> I didn't notice that Mick's posts were being held in a moderation queue, I'm guessing that my replies to his 'invisible' posts were also invisible until released by Crispy?  There were also some server problems (slow responses) leading to double posts (happened to me on another thread) which confused things even more.


 
And you thought I was going blind and I thought you were seeing things!

Crispy needs a spanking for confusing us all


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## mick2007 (Mar 1, 2011)

With reference to cybertect..yeah there are a few more. So here are a couple more. I can only presume again from the architecture that it's Coventry again.

It would appear that both of them are some kind of school or something?

I wasn't far off identifying the original 'Chadwick Knight' photo looking back. I did indeed check out one of the photo's with the side view of the place. At the time though I was struggling to think Coventry was such an Ye Olde kind of place.

Again these are not my scans.


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## mick2007 (Mar 1, 2011)

Mr/Ms Moderator,

I've just posted a couple more photo's from what I think is Coventry again and my post has not appeared again!

edit :

With reference to cybertect..yeah there are a few more. So here are a couple more. I can only presume again from the architecture that it's Coventry again.

It would appear that both of them are some kind of school or something?

I wasn't far off identifying the original 'Chadwick Knight' photo looking back. I did indeed check out one of the photo's with the side view of the place. At the time though I was struggling to think Coventry was such an Ye Olde kind of place.

Again these are not my scans.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 1, 2011)

Bluecoat Girls School

Can't be arsed with the other one.  Time for bed


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 1, 2011)

mick2007 said:


>



Bablake Boys School






History

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/tour/hill-st.php

Well at least they were nice and easy


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## mick2007 (Mar 1, 2011)

Good grief!

OK This one has left me a bit blank. I'm not 100% this is in Coventry...but if it is, it would be a good link to the others which are just photographs of peoples houses which look set in the countryside. Though I would like to think it's the same part of the country if nothing else.

edit: It could possibly be Rugby School just down the road.


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## miss minnie (Mar 1, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Good grief!
> 
> OK This one has left me a bit blank. I'm not 100% this is in Coventry...but if it is, it would be a good link to the others which are just photographs of peoples houses which look set in the countryside. Though I would like to think it's the same part of the country if nothing else.
> 
> edit: It could possibly be Rugby School just down the road.


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## mick2007 (Mar 1, 2011)

No way! I've been searching around that poncy public school for ages now trying to get the right angle..

This is great because if the above is well Coventry I guess it means the other must be also...though I doubt you'll ever get these type of shots in a month of Sundays unless you know the area.


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## cybertect (Mar 1, 2011)

miss minnie said:


>


 
mrc c said 'That's King Henry VIII school' straight away, but you'd got there about two minutes before


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 1, 2011)

It is worth checking out Wikipedia for the King Henry VIII school at Coventry. There is a photo of how it is today, not very different from the lower and smaller picture in post 85 above except that there is a high fence along the road side.

The black and white original looks as if it has been scanned the wrong way around.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 1, 2011)

Here's another that I presume was taken at the same time as the other, above. I didn't manage to buy this one which is a pain. It's still a clue though.

edit: This must be different because there is only one arch in the bridge. Yeah it would seem all of the scans are the wrong way around!..I'm hoping to get my scanner on the job soon.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 1, 2011)

Mick, I think you've got some photographs of historical significance for Coventry here.

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/nowandthen/nowandthenbroadgate2.php



> This must be amongst the earliest photographs showing Broadgate, if not Coventry itself. It was taken around 1860 by Joseph Wingrave (right) - only around a decade or two after the invention of the camera. Wingrave owned a chemist shop in High Street, and was responsible for virtually all of the oldest photos of Victorian Coventry



I think it's entirely possible your photos were taken in the 1860s or even the 1850s.

If I were you, I'd be getting in touch with the History Centre at the Herbert Museum.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 1, 2011)

mick2007

You need to try to show these pictures and any further ones you have not shown us, to people in Coventry. The best way would be by emailing them to the Coventry local newspaper.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 1, 2011)

Just looking at the fashions, that's much later than any of the others - 1890s/early 1900s.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 1, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> mick2007
> 
> You need to try to show these pictures and any further ones you have not shown us, to people in Coventry. The best way would be by emailing them to the Coventry local newspaper.


While this is true, thanks for sharing with us - it's so much fun!


----------



## cybertect (Mar 1, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> The best way would be by emailing them to the Coventry local newspaper.


 
The Coventry Telegraph is _the_ newspaper of record in Coventry.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 1, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> While this is true, thanks for sharing with us - it's so much fun!


 
Yeah, don't show them to the people of Coventry 'til we've had our fun first


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 1, 2011)

Those bridge one are difficult as either the bridges or houses could be gone by now.

I'm searching on the basis that they may be old mill houses


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 1, 2011)

The 'countryside' stuff is Daventry.

Maybe 

e2a; or, perhaps Bourton on the Water.

e2a2; no. Probably neither


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## Stanley Edwards (Mar 1, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Here's another that I presume was taken at the same time as the other, above.


 
Looks like it could be dhustone. South Shropshire-Worcestershire borders, or Daventry/Warwickshire. Given the others are Coventry, then I would say Daventry/Warwickshire, but something looks more Worcestershire/South Shropshire. 

Perhaps on the edge of the Wyre Forest somewhere. Arley?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 1, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> Looks like it could be dhustone. South Shropshire-Worcestershire borders, or Daventry/Warwickshire. Given the others are Coventry, then I would say Daventry/Warwickshire, but something looks more Worcestershire/South Shropshire.
> 
> Perhaps on the edge of the Wyre Forest somewhere. Arley?




Not Chester then?


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 1, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Not Chester then?


 
No 

Closer to Coventry 

About halfway between Coventry and Chester actually


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 1, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> No
> 
> Closer to Coventry
> 
> About halfway between Coventry and Chester actually



So it's either Worcestershire, Warwickshire or Shropshire

You may as well tell us exactly where these bridges are.

I'm all packhorse bridged out


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 1, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> While this is true, thanks for sharing with us - it's so much fun!


innit?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 1, 2011)

This is my current favourite thread  Thanks Mick


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 1, 2011)

It's like Agatha Christie without those inconvenient and distracting bodies.....


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 1, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> It's like Agatha Christie without those inconvenient and distracting bodies.....


 
I bet you some dead bodies were found under those bridges centuries ago


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 1, 2011)

So anyway, are these pictures the correct way round or should everything be flipped?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 1, 2011)

Hebden Bridge has very similar stonework, and there's what looks like a big chimney in the background.  Obviously it's not Hebden Bridge as the arches are all wrong, but might have been built around the same time


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 2, 2011)

OK Excitement. I've had a good chance to have a look at them and on this first scan alas it would appear that this one at least is a copy. They are though very old because they are wet plates which I would really date them, I would say around the 1880's. The detail though is also excellent for the age of the neg.

With along the lines of what Cybertect was suggesting. That is something I will certainly do if I think people will be interested because this one at least is not a first generation copy...but it could be the only copy.

Also yeah I think the original scans of these on here..most were the wrong way around.






High Res version

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5174/5489950767_f9d679c160_o.jpg


----------



## cybertect (Mar 2, 2011)

Look at the state of that chimney!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

That's a great picture above

I flipped the photos around hoping it would help, but I'm still stuck with the bridges


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Look at the state of that chimney!


 
See that one further back, in front of the steeple?  That's a little boy up sticking out the top


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 2, 2011)

This one is a corker and I would say this is definitely an original..maybe theres hope that way for the other one yet..

The detail on the high res version is exceptional, you can see all the detail in the hotel windows e.t.c. and have a nosey about.

I would be interested know when this one was taken. The glass plate is just under 7x5 inches.






High Res

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5260/5490627888_b6501de33b_o.jpg


This one of the school seems to be the original as well because the detail is too good to just be a copy as far as I can see.






High Res

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5490748318_f8ae7dc1ee_o.jpg


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

That Commercial Hotel has "Knight's Temperance Hotel" in the windows



> The Bankruptcy Act, 1869.
> In the County Court of Lincolnshire, holden at Lincoln.
> In the Matter of Proceedings for Liquidation by Arrangement
> or Composition with Creditors, instituted by
> ...



or is that a difference place altogether


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

Maybe whoever took all these photos was a reporter/photographer himself for the local papers?


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## mick2007 (Mar 2, 2011)

Weird it states Lincoln. I guess Mr. Knight might of had a chain of Temperance Hotels...serves them right for not serving any beer.

I'm not sure if they had photographs in newspapers back then?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

Found info that said Bablake School was moved to Coundon Road, Coventry in 1890

Also read about what the school uniform was like, but this was in the 17th and 18th century (I think) and it doesn't seem to match what they're wearing so either the uniform changed, or these kids may have nothing to do wth the school


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Weird it states Lincoln. I guess Mr. Knight might of had a chain of Temperance Hotels...serves them right for not serving any beer.
> 
> I'm not sure if they had photographs in newspapers back then?


 
Well there were Temperance Hotels all over the world.  Why does it have "late" in the sign (ie. Chadwick *late* Knight).  Maybe Knight had died, and Chadwick now owned it?  Some of them apparently served beer but steered clear of the hard stuff


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Weird it states Lincoln. I guess Mr. Knight might of had a chain of Temperance Hotels...serves them right for not serving any beer.
> 
> I'm not sure if they had photographs in newspapers back then?


 
Anyway, the Temperance Hotel in your picture is in *UNION *Street, so maybe Mr Knight had a couple of them!

Found this:



> 1880 First photographs appear in a newspaper



and



> Another major advance during this period was the introduction of regular use of photographs in newspapers, which began in 1897.



Think this is in America though, so not sure when the UK started used photos


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

On Page 175 of this, The Temperance Commercial Hotel and Coffee Room, Exchange Court, 35 Union Street is mentioned

http://digital.nls.uk/23/86838927.pdf

But that's the Aberdeen Post Office Directory


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

Temperance and Commercial may also have been used widely for teetotal hotels that catered to businessmen (I read that Commercial back then was usually for businessmen).  So maybe it's an idea to go back to Chadwick and Knight rather than Commercial Hotel or Temperance Hotel.  I don't care anymore as I'm going to bed!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

Found this on Chadwick



> William Henry Chadwick, 1829-1908
> Willow Green Cemetery, Reddish, Manchester
> Imprisoned at the age of 19 for six months, William Henry Chadwick was one of the more colourful political figures to emerge from a movement not lacking in eccentricity. Chadwick had become a Wesleyan preacher at the age of 14 and was* lecturing on temperance within two years.* His prison sentence followed a series of inflammatory speeches in 1848 in which he pronounced himself tired of speaking and ready for action. He emerged from gaol to become in turns an actor, phrenologist and mesmerist, marrying an actress and touring the country giving seances. Chadwick returned to politics later in life to help found the agricultural labourers' union with Joseph Arch, and to preach for the Primitive Methodists and the Manchester Reform Union. Joseph Chamberlain's private secretary, William Woodings, secured him work as a van lecturer for the National Liberal Federation in 1891, and he was still speaking at the general election of 1906 in favour of free trade and Home Rule.
> 
> ...


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 2, 2011)

Not directly related to the negatives but I came across this interesting old imgae while searching:






> A very old photo, showing the stocks outside Coventry Gaol in 1856.


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 2, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Not directly related to the negatives but I came across this interesting old imgae while searching:


 
That is class 

Going back to the bridges... Derbyshire Dales?


----------



## cybertect (Mar 2, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> This one is a corker and I would say this is definitely an original..maybe theres hope that way for the other one yet..
> 
> The detail on the high res version is exceptional, you can see all the detail in the hotel windows e.t.c. and have a nosey about.
> 
> I would be interested know when this one was taken. The glass plate is just under 7x5 inches.



Something that may help date it is the building on the right of the scene.

This was the site for the Liberal Club, seen here in an un-dated postcard

http://coventryinphotographs.fotopic.net/p63566237.html

and here, in 1954.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allhails/5257541228/

Obviously, your photo pre-dates its construction, whenever that was.

Just to orient ourselves, we're standing around here [Google Streetview] which corresponds roughly to the junction of Warwick Row and Warwick Road on this historic map of Coventry, looking up Warwick Lane.

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/covmaps/allmaps.php


----------



## cybertect (Mar 2, 2011)

another clue now we can see more clearly, the shop on Warwick Lane is advertising bicycles _and_ tricycles. 

Coventry was at the heart of the early British cycle industry. Bicycles had started to become popular from the early 1860s onward, however

http://triporteurs.wordpress.com/page-3-history-of-tricycles/



> On November 18, 1876, James Starley introduced the Coventry Lever Tricycle, a side-driven two-track, lever-driven machine, and that started the tricycling craze in Great Britain. It had two small wheels on the right side, that both steered simultaneously. A large drive wheel was on the left side. In 1877, he introduced the Coventry Rotary, one of the first rotary chain drive tricycles.
> 
> In 1879, twenty types of tricycles and multi-wheel cycles were produced in Coventry, England, and by 1884, there were over 120 different models produced by 20 manufacturers. Tricycles were used especially by those who could not ride high wheelers, such as women who were confined in the long dresses of the day, and short or unathletic men.



Probably dates the photo as 1876 or later.

e2a: I'm also wondering whether the shop itself ("SID...") is related to the Coventry-based Sidney Cycle Co., apparently founded in 1898. It might well have been a shop (or son) that later branched out into actually making bicycles as cycling took off in popularity.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 2, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Just to orient ourselves, we're standing around here [Google Streetview] which corresponds roughly to the junction of Warwick Row and Warwick Road on this historic map of Coventry, looking up Warwick Lane.
> 
> http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/covmaps/allmaps.php


 
That same site has the Time Machine map which is a bit nifty


----------



## cybertect (Mar 2, 2011)

cybertect said:


> If I understand what you're referring to - the right-hand edge of the church in the OP's photo, I wonder if it's just a ragged edge of a partly-reworked stone wall.
> 
> http://www.stjohn-the-baptist.co.uk/about.htm
> 
> ...


 
Taking my previous post and this into account, if most of the photos were taken about the same time, then 1877 or thereabouts seems a good candidate. It would fit with the costumes seen on some of the people.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

I reckon you should email the Bablake School as they may have records.



> Very little is known of the progress of Bablake in the seventeenth and  eighteenth centuries. Throughout this time the boys would have worn the  traditional ‘Blue Coat’ uniform: a long tunic of dark blue cloth, with a  leather girdle, yellow petticoat, yellow stockings, low buckled shoes,  linen collar with bands, round black worsted cap with yellow tassel.



Obviously the uniform changed at some point (and it's quite like the new uniform remained unchanged for a while), but at least they'd be able to tell you if they are indeed Bablake boys in the picture.  If they are, then considering the school moved in 1890, that might help date the picture (unless of course, the boys were on a day trip to visit the old school)


----------



## cybertect (Mar 2, 2011)

There's a chance that the chap with the sticks and top hat is the Headmaster?



e2a: F. W. Humberstone MA (1870–1890)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bablake_School


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

Hard to even date it from the adult in that Bablake picture as 

1)  He may be a teacher and be wearing some kind of uniform
2)  Hard to tell his age, and therefore hard to tell whether he was into fashion
3)  Hard to tell his age, and therefore may have grown attached to his beard rather than be wearing it because it's fashionable
4)  He has a walking stick, but is that because it was fashionable to carry one?  However, he has two, so maybe he had rickets or polio?  Maybe he used them to beat the kids?!
5)  The top hat height might be a clue, but could that have been school uniform or was that particular height hat in fashion at some stage?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

cybertect said:


> There's a chance that the chap with the sticks and top hat is the Headmaster?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Already looked him up and can't find any pictures of him


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

Or it could be his predecessor?

One way of finding out might be to get someone to look at the censuses from then.  The school was residential so it stands to reason that some staff also stayed there overnight, and I read somewhere that a house was created for the headmaster.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 2, 2011)

A History of the County of Warwick: Volume 8: The City of Coventry and Borough of Warwick has some detailed information about Bablake.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 2, 2011)

Pickard's Pink Pages for Warwickshire with census information and other stuff.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 2, 2011)

cybertect said:


> There's a chance that the chap with the sticks and top hat is the Headmaster?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Francis William Humberstone, very little record of him around although in 1870, 73 and 75 his wife gave birth to children at the school so he was pretty virile for an old guy with walking sticks if that is him.

Baptismal records

e2a: Mander, listed as schoolmaster residing in King St was also siring kids through the late 60s and 70s


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

and furthermore, it seems like the Bluecoat schools actually had uniforms that seem more like what Bablake boys should be wearing (but are not in that picture).

Bluecoat uniforms







Bablake boys:  Throughout this time the boys would have worn the traditional ‘Blue Coat’ uniform: a long tunic of dark blue cloth, with a leather girdle, yellow petticoat, yellow stockings, low buckled shoes, linen collar with bands, round black worsted cap with yellow tassel.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 2, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Francis William Humberstone, very little record of him around although in 1870, 73 and 75 his wife gave birth to children at the school so he was pretty virile for an old guy with walking sticks if that is him.
> 
> Baptismal records
> 
> e2a: Mander, listed as schoolmaster residing in King St was also siring kids through the late 60s and 70s


 
I'd come across a similar set of records in someone's family tree

http://www.michael-outram.com/dat0.htm#19



> Humberstone, Francis William
> 
> Gender: Male
> Birth : 29 September 1846 in 2 Guilford Cotta, Dover, Kent, England
> ...



Even allowing for Victorians looking older than they were, he'd only have been 31 in 1877, which makes it unlikely to be him if the picture is anywhere near that date.

Ah well...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> A History of the County of Warwick: Volume 8: The City of Coventry and Borough of Warwick has some detailed information about Bablake.


 


miss minnie said:


> Pickard's Pink Pages for Warwickshire with census information and other stuff.


 


miss minnie said:


> Francis William Humberstone, very little record of him around although in 1870, 73 and 75 his wife gave birth to children at the school so he was pretty virile for an old guy with walking sticks if that is him.
> 
> Baptismal records
> 
> e2a: Mander, listed as schoolmaster residing in King St was also siring kids through the late 60s and 70s



I'll leave all that to you.  Can't be arsed with all that reading!

How old was he in 1870?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

cybertect said:


> I'd come across a similar set of records in someone's family tree
> 
> http://www.michael-outram.com/dat0.htm#19
> 
> ...


 
Then someone needs to look at census and see which other teachers were living there during those decades.

I nominate...

Miss Minnie or Cybertect


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

I also found someone on Rootsweb who reckoned her grandfather went to the Bablake school but thought the uniform....

er, forgotten what it was

eta:  





> I have an old picture of my ggrandfather as a boy in school uniform. I had
> assumed because of the similarity of unforms that he had gone to a Bluecoat
> School. However, I've found no such school in Coventry in the early 19th
> century that took boys. But many boys of his station in life attended the
> ...


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 2, 2011)

It would appear that Bablake started as a mixed charity school.



> AT the time of the education census of 1851, 1,461 children attended day schools in Warwick. Of these three sevenths, or 640, received education at 34 private schools, and the rest, 821, at nine public schools. (fn. 1) Of the public schools the oldest were the King's Grammar School and the Bablake Charity School, both of which have already been described. (fn. 2) In 1854 there were 130 boys and girls attending the Bablake School, (fn. 3) and in 1867 43 pupils at the King's School.





> The Bablake Charity School had already been closed in 1875 as a result of a Charity Commission Scheme.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

> The Bablake Charity School had already been closed in 1875 as a result of a Charity Commission Scheme.


 
More please?  Closed and moved?  Closed completely?  If whatisname was Headmaster from 1870-1890 (when it moved premises), then how was it closed?  Or maybe it was closed to the poorer children and "Charity" was taken out of its name?  

Can you ban OP please for posting these pics?


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 2, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> More please?  Closed and moved?  Closed completely?  If whatisname was Headmaster from 1870-1890 (when it moved premises), then how was it closed?  Or maybe it was closed to the poorer children and "Charity" was taken out of its name?


See "A History of the County of Warwick: Volume 8: The City of Coventry and Borough of Warwick"


----------



## cybertect (Mar 2, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> A History of the County of Warwick: Volume 8: The City of Coventry and Borough of Warwick has some detailed information about Bablake.


 
Different School: That's Bablake Charity School in [the Borough of] Warwick, not Bablake School in Coventry [Warwick_shire_].

i.e.

http://www.search.windowsonwarwickshire.org.uk/engine/resource/default.asp?resource=27842


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Different School: That's Bablake Charity School in [the Borough of] Warwick, not Bablake School in Coventry [Warwick_shire_].
> 
> i.e.
> 
> http://www.search.windowsonwarwickshire.org.uk/engine/resource/default.asp?resource=27842


 
I was wondering why I was being directed to Warwickshire as I thought it was a completely different county. 

eta:  Thought maybe the boundaries had changed over the years or something


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

Birth : 29 September 1846 in 2 Guilford Cotta, Dover, Kent, England
Death : 20 September 1923 in 3 Chester Street, Coventry, England
Burial : 24 September 1923 in Cemetery, Catacomb Walk, Coventry, England

First child born in London in 1869
Next five children (possibly even 6) born in the school, so he was definitely living at the school until he's seen on the census at 4 Barr's Hill Road in 1891

(that's assuming I'm reading this info correctly)

http://www.michael-outram.com/dat0.htm#19

Still nothing to say he's the guy in the picture. There may have been other teachers that lived there


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

Photographers/studios around at that time

http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/photogs.html


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 2, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Different School: That's Bablake Charity School in [the Borough of] Warwick, not Bablake School in Coventry [Warwick_shire_].
> 
> i.e.
> 
> http://www.search.windowsonwarwickshire.org.uk/engine/resource/default.asp?resource=27842


Ah, I see.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 2, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Ah, I see.


 

and you made me read all that stuff about the other school   





















I just skimmed it really 

However, I did wonder if their boundaries were different at some stage and therefore it may have been referred to as both Coventry and Warwickshire (a bit like Brixton used to be in Surrey 'til it became London)


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 3, 2011)

Cybertect, I would agree with on those dates going just off the negs alone...though maybe go into the 1880's on some. When I say going off the negs, I mean the colour of the emulation used, the different thickness of glass..it does resemble some others I have in some ways that are definitely 1880's.

..so I'm quite taken in by all these! There is something quite dreamy about the lot of them.

OK, for anyone interested here is another of the pub..The Kings Head. Looking at the negative at first I thought the guy at the top of the photograph was some bloke or The Landlord sticking his head out of the window. Turns out it's 'Peeping Tom'..

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/nowandthen/nowandthenbroadgate2.php







High Res.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5096/5492947331_c72506f44f_o.jpg


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 3, 2011)

> Liotro the Elephant Mascot. The elephant statue is a symbol and mascot for the city Atop his back is a transplanted egyptian obelisk Catania , Sicily , Italy



e2a: ooh, what happened your pic of the elephant fountain mick?


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 3, 2011)

Oh No! Sorry about that. I took it off because while searching I too discovered it had bog all to do with Coventry. Thanks for help all the same!


----------



## cybertect (Mar 3, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> OK, for anyone interested here is another of the pub..The Kings Head. Looking at the negative at first I thought the guy at the top of the photograph was some bloke or The Landlord sticking his head out of the window. Turns out it's 'Peeping Tom'..
> 
> http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/nowandthen/nowandthenbroadgate2.php


 



			
				historiccoventry.co.uk said:
			
		

> The photo above shows him peeping out from the corner window of the Kings Head Inn, but at Christmas 1879 this new enlarged Kings Head Hotel opened - and Tom had a new, more upmarket home.



That is the new building. If it's the same sort of negative plate as the others, it lends support to your idea that they're 1880s images.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 3, 2011)

Yeah I was really chuffed when I read that. Though the others might be earlier..also like you said Cybertect..there is an outside chance that these are the negs by Joseph Wingrave?! His chemist and photo shop were on the 'High Street'. The same street as The Kings Head. His address was 4 High Street, could it possibly be because the Kings Head is at the top of the High Street on the link, that the Kings Head shot was taken from the second floor of his shop? His shop was near 'Pepper Lane'..so I'm not 100% which end of the High Street his shop was. On first glace of the link it would appear to be the other end alas.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 3, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> His shop was near 'Pepper Lane'..so I'm not 100% which end of the High Street his shop was. On first glace of the link it would appear to be the other end alas.



I'm not so sure

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/covmaps/allmaps.php

Pepper Lane is the next street down from Broadgate on the northern side of High Street opposite Greyfriars Lane.

I think that photo must have been taken from the opposite side of Hertford Street to the Hotel.

e2a: I reckon his shop was where the West Bromwich Building Society is now, on the corner of Pepper Lane and High Street [StreetView].

The address of HSBC on the other side of Pepper Lane junction is Nos 5/6 High Street and the numbers run up as you go south-east.

The view of the Kings Head from his shop would have been something like this, so your photo must have been taken from a building roughly where the Lady Godiva News or Nationwide is now. 

Hertford Street has been slightly re-aligned, so the Kings Head site was roughly where Greggs is now.

e2a: so it was literally round the corner from his shop. It's entirely feasible he knew people on the other side of the street well enough to get access to the second floor to take a photo of Peeping Tom.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 3, 2011)

Joseph Wingrave is listed on that link of photographers in Coventry


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 4, 2011)

I think your spot on there Cybertect.

This one is a bit knackered and needs a lot of work doing on it. It has the appearance of a school..but looks a bit rural to be Coventry?






High Res.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5016/5495455185_4f6b683f86_o.jpg


----------



## cybertect (Mar 4, 2011)

Mrs c says it's Coombe Abbey

E2a: Wingrave photographed it in 1860.

http://www.coventry-walks.org.uk/coombe/ca-then-now.html

But your photo dates from at least after 1865, when some new building took place, designed by William Eden Nesfield.

I was about to go leafing through my books on Norman Shaw when mrs c piped up saying it's Coombe... Nesfield was Shaw's partner.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2011)

I love this thread


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 4, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Mrs c says it's Coombe Abbey


 
I thought *you* were female cybertect


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 4, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I thought *you* were female cybertect


 
She is 

Very liberal times we're enjoying.

More of these threads please!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 4, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> She is
> 
> Very liberal times we're enjoying.
> 
> More of these threads please!


 

Oh


----------



## cybertect (Mar 4, 2011)

Stanley Edwards said:


> She is


 


Stanley is fibbing, though this isn't the first time I've been thought to be female on U75 

[checks bits - they're still there.]


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 4, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Stanley is fibbing, though this isn't the first time I've been thought to be female on U75
> 
> [checks bits - they're still there.]



Glad I amended my post then as I asked whether you'd got married and was searching threads about civil partnerships  

Wonder why I thought you were female?  Maybe get you mixed up with cyberfairy?


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 5, 2011)

Well done Mrs C yet again!

The sign reads 'Notice This Footway has been stopped by the order of the Magistrates'.

Thats the lot really. There is another that is definitely a copy of a very early photograph of another church being built with all the scaffolding around it.






High res

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5219/5498872670_f46c2f120c_o.jpg


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 5, 2011)

All Saints, Allesley, Millisons Wood, near Coventry


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 5, 2011)

Yes, definitely...


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 5, 2011)

I was thrown a bit, because the windows have been altered, but finding a pic with the tomb in the foreground confirmed it for me.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 5, 2011)

I'll know for sure when Mrs C has a look...she's the expert!


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 5, 2011)

...right, Wikipedia tells me 





> Allesley grew around the 800 year old All Saints Church, the spire of which is prominent on the skyline of the village. Originally built around 1130, it was rebuilt in 1863 and remains relatively unaltered since then.


 which tells me that your photograph was taken after 1863.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 5, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> All Saints, Allesley, Millisons Wood, near Coventry


 
Good call. It's a few minutes drive from my inlaws' old house.

Modern pics

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15912099@N04/3610842138/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pikerslanefarm/2357972539/


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 5, 2011)

Talk about Urban 75 information service.

I must admit I looked through about 250 old photographs of schools around Coventry yesterday and didn't really come up with anything..didn't fancy doing it again with a rural looking church. So brilliant!


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 5, 2011)

I started by googling Norman Church Spire. If you can tell the architectural style it saves a lot of time.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 5, 2011)

No doubt!..a lot better than googling 'church near Coventry'.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 5, 2011)

Got any more?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 5, 2011)

I really love this thread


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 5, 2011)

Not scanned at the moment..all there is left is the odd other church, plus the copy job of the church covered with scaffolding.

On the other hand in the same batch are the rural photo's on this thread..they are no doubt later..but it's very hard to know if they are connected with Coventry..I think there are a few more of them I haven't put on here, but it's just people having a picnic or something.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 7, 2011)

OK, there has been a slight turn around. This one is a wet plate negative just like all the other one's identified of being around Coventry. So I can only presume that this scene is as well.

This afternoon I was sad enough to be completely enthralled looking for bridges like this around Coventry. First I stumbled across the fact that it must be a pack horse bridge.







High Res.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5172/5504187263_7bd3c8c6c1_o.jpg

After around 2 hours of surfing about the best I can come up with is this.

http://www.acoventryway.org.uk/wwf/gallery/photos/image014.htm

Remember the early photograph was probably taken in the 1880's..the photograph above was taken in 2005, the bridge no doubt has had some work done on it by looking at the brick work and it was done along time ago by the looks of it.

Is this the same bridge then?!

I've got as far I as I can with it..


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's a better photo of Pedlars Bridge today

http://www.acoventryway.org.uk/slide_show/photo043.htm

Even allowing for modern restoration (which occurred around 2003) here are enough differences in some of the basic details to make me wonder if it is the same bridge.

The location is a good tie-in with Coombe Abbey nearby, though.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 7, 2011)

I know it's a puzzler..but a rare bridge. My guess is the house on the left should be the give away. Looking at the state of it, it really wouldn't suprise me if all you could find now was foundations?

It obviously could be somewhere else..but everything I've read tied this photo back here.

edit.

another shot.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 7, 2011)

Nah, your original has a flat top, this one is curved.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm sort of going on the theory that it's been rebuilt..


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> OK, there has been a slight turn around. This one is a wet plate negative just like all the other one's identified of being around Coventry. So I can only presume that this scene is as well.
> 
> This afternoon I was sad enough to be completely enthralled looking for bridges like this around Coventry.* First I stumbled across the fact that it must be a pack horse bridge*.



I already mentioned it was a packhorse bridge


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, everything I can find about the Pedlars Bridge says that it's located here, where the Smite Brook crosses a bridleway in amongst the clump of trees.

Unfortunately, there's no evidence of the buildings shown in your photo, including a substantial industrial building (the chimney). I'd expect some trace in the aerial view, even if they'd all been demolished.

Here's another, high-res image on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tothehillsatymail/3707563575/in/photostream/

The buttresses evident in your mystery bridge are very different or absent in the modern bridge. The stones don't match up in any way and the light/shadow suggests that your pic was taken from roughly south, which is the same direction as the pictures of Pedlars Bridge are taken, which largely discounts the possibility that your photo is of the other side.

Sorry, I don't think that's it.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Well, everything I can find about the Pedlars Bridge says that it's located here, where the Smite Brook crosses a bridleway in amongst the clump of trees.
> 
> Unfortunately, there's no evidence of the buildings shown in your photo, including a substantial industrial building (the chimney). I'd expect some trace in the aerial view, even if they'd all been demolished.
> 
> ...


 
Obviously it's not, but don't you think it's very similar to Hebden Bridge (although different arches)?


----------



## Midland Red (Mar 7, 2011)

Fairly certain the bridge is Spon Bridge, Coventry - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/pikerslanefarm/2916846110/in/set-72157607158409840/


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 7, 2011)

Midland Red said:


> Fairly certain the bridge is Spon Bridge, Coventry - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/pikerslanefarm/2916846110/in/set-72157607158409840/


I had that one pegged a few days ago but dismissed it.  Looking again ... it could be, hmmm.


( Apols... I have been distracted from this thread by work!  )


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

Midland Red said:


> Fairly certain the bridge is Spon Bridge, Coventry - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/pikerslanefarm/2916846110/in/set-72157607158409840/


 
I don't believe it is.

Three arches, not two. Stonework's all different.

A closer look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24130425@N07/3362413479

and it's been like that for at least 40 or 50 years

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15729872&postcount=13

Unless the bridge was totally replaced at the end of the 19th century(and weathered _very_ badly in little over 60/70 years) in which case all bets are off


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

Hello Midland Red.

I know it's hard to tell as bridges and greenery near to them could become overgrown, but I'm sure that Nick's picture is a two arched bridge.  Also, the arches on your bridge are different heights.

Cyber beat me to it

Was going to mention it's stonework as well rather than blockwork type of construction


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 7, 2011)




----------



## miss minnie (Mar 7, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Hello Midland Red.
> 
> I know it's hard to tell as bridges and greenery near to them could become overgrown, but I'm sure that Nick's picture is a two arched bridge.  Also, the arches on your bridge are different heights.


Look carefully at mick's pic though.  The left arch is slightly lower than the right, and buried under the grass on the very right could be another arch.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 7, 2011)

The depth of the bridge in the two pictures differs hugely though.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

BTW, another post on that thread at SSC also puts the modern day Nat West in context with the Kings Head Hotel with a photo from the 1930s.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15194755&postcount=1


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

And the cut????? (can't remember the sodding name of them now ) are different

Cyber?

eta:  Cutwater

I learnt that word today btw


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Look carefully at mick's pic though.  The left arch is slightly lower than the right, and buried under the grass on the very right could be another arch.


 
Yeah, but look at the courses of brickwork immediately above the arch, there's only 3


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Look carefully at mick's pic though.  The left arch is slightly lower than the right, and buried under the grass on the very right could be another arch.


 
but both arches visible in mick's photo are of the same height _and_ width. 

If it was one of the Spon Bridge arches buried, they'd be different dimensions.

e2a: Spon Bridge is also clearly much wider.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 7, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Yeah, but look at the courses of brickwork immediately above the arch, there's only 3


Given the difference in depth, I was considering that it might be possible the bridge was widened and re-faced with new bricks at some point.

However, I think that the Old Spon bridge is somewhat older than the glass negative so that work done to it would probably look a bit more modern than it currently does.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Given the difference in depth, I was considering that it might be possible the bridge was widened and re-faced with new bricks at some point.
> 
> However, I think that the Old Spon bridge is somewhat older than the glass negative so that work done to it would probably look a bit more modern than it currently does.



The keystone in the arch in Midland's picture is also not there in Nick's picture

The bricks supporting the arches are completely different

Those cutwaters (if that's the right term for those pier things) are completely different


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 7, 2011)

cybertect said:


> but both arches visible in mick's photo are of the same height _and_ width.


Looks like a slight height and width difference to me but I suppose it could be foreshortening or an optical illusion caused by the wonky brickwork.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 7, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Looks like a slight height and width difference to me but I suppose it could be foreshortening or an optical illusion caused by the wonky brickwork.


Yes I know.  It wouldn't have been IF it were expanded and re-faced.  

I do concede that it isn't the same, my mind was just meandering down a route where it might be possible that one bridge became the other one, but I don't think it did on reflection.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

but you'd think with such an old bridge, they'd have made an effort to match the original brickwork (although I know that's a bollox idea as I've seen plenty of bridges that have been appallingly repaired with nothing like the original stonework).  Then again, different stonework may still have been added centuries ago with people not realising these bridges would still be standing centuries later and so therefore might not have been thinking about whether the stonework matched


----------



## Midland Red (Mar 7, 2011)

I have to concede that, on reflection, it probably isn't Spon Bridge after all - it looks mighty similar at first look, with the buildings as well, but I have to agree now that it's somewhere else, and I can't think of another bridge in Coventry likely to fit the bill
Sorry for the wild goose chase

I will give you the Old Bablake School from last year


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-218572-spon-bridge-coventry




			
				British Listed Buildings said:
			
		

> Spon Bridge, Coventry
> 
> Description: Spon Bridge
> Location: Upper Spon Street, Coventry CV1 3BA
> ...



I don't believe mick's photo dates from before 1771


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 7, 2011)

Sorry Minnie I should of been paying more attention.

OK back to it...

Annoyingly it would now appear not to be the same one..

A few things come into the equation. First by it would appear to be a packhorse bridge. These are hundreds of years old..so there can't be that many around the Coventry area with two arches in a similar setting. They should also be well documented or at least mentioned somewhere.

All the negatives so far of this age and type have been around Coventry, so I can only presume this is as well. This sort of narrows down the odds some what.

All the other photographs as of yet have some kind of significance..not just a nice scenic view. So photographing an ancient quirky bridge would fit in wth the rest of the pictures.

I know for a fact through local bridges from my part of the world that a few have been knocked down and rebuilt in the last hundred years and they are different in shape. For various reasons.

The width of the bridge does look very similar on both. The width of the stream and environment also look basically the same.

The real clue has to be the buildings in the background though..and as Cybertect as said. It doesn't look like the one..

All I can really say then, is should around the Coventry area. It shouldn't be somewhere in Derbyshire or anything like that.

As for the other shots with the other bridge on. All those were taken a lot later on another type of film. So as of yet I don't think they are relevant to this shot. I think those were taken around 30 years later.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Sorry Minnie I should of been paying more attention.
> 
> OK back to it...
> 
> ...



Well, packhorses bridges wree built for centuries so it's hard to pinpoint what century it was built in.  I've found stone packhorse bridges built in the 1500s and ones built a couple of hundred years later looking very similar.  Maybe Cybertect can tell us if construction changed dramatically at any time, but as Cybertect seems to be ignoring anything I say...!



> All the negatives so far of this age and type have been around Coventry, so I can only presume this is as well. This sort of narrows down the odds some what.



Could have been on holiday or on some assignment?



> All the other photographs as of yet have some kind of significance..not just a nice scenic view. So photographing an ancient quirky bridge would fit in wth the rest of the pictures.
> 
> I know for a fact through local bridges from my part of the world that a few have been knocked down and rebuilt in the last hundred years and they are different in shape. For various reasons.



Still could have been on holiday.  Also read that loads of packhorse bridges no longer exist anyway, so it's possible this one doesn't



> The width of the bridge does look very similar on both. The width of the stream and environment also look basically the same.
> 
> The real clue has to be the buildings in the background though..and as Cybertect as said. It doesn't look like the one..
> 
> All I can really say then, is should around the Coventry area. It shouldn't be somewhere in Derbyshire or anything like that.



That's a difficult one.  So much can change in that picture.  Water levels, embankments, overgrowth, buildings knocked down, chimneys knocked down etc. 

The main pictures that come up if you google packhorse bridges are Allerford and Hebden, both of which have chimneys and bridges in the pictures.  The house may have gone decades ago as well.  I found a couple of similar pictures of houses like that that could be near mills or rivers, but I can't remember where (although I think one of them was in Belgium and another was a wooden building, so I ruled them out!).  The whole scenery in that particular area may have changed.  

As for the other shots with the other bridge on. All those were taken a lot later on another type of film. So as of yet I don't think they are relevant to this shot. I think those were taken around 30 years later.[/QUOTE]

I think we should send Cybertect out with a camera and tell her to get up off her arse and find the answer for you


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 7, 2011)

I've also come to the conclusion looking at the high res, that were on the 2005 photo e.t.c...that is just basically a path. The early one looks more like a road than a path, which would make sense if it's by a house.

The others, like I say seem to have some sort of significance..ie historical one or whatever. Maybe this bridge is long gone, but there was some reason for taking it. Some quirky historical happening or something.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> I've also come to the conclusion looking at the high res, that were on the 2005 photo e.t.c...that is just basically a path. The early one looks more like a road than a path, which would make sense if it's by a house.
> 
> The others, like I say seem to have some sort of significance..ie historical one or whatever. Maybe this bridge is long gone, but there was some reason for taking it. Some quirky historical happening or something.




Which one are you talking about, the single arched bridge or the two-arched bridge?


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 7, 2011)

Oh right, the double arched bridge.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Oh right, the double arched bridge.


 
So you think the double arched bridge could just be a pedestrian path rather than a packhorse bridge?

If it was just for pedestrians, would it have needed to have been built in stone.  Why not just wood?

If it was just built for pedestrians rather than horses, why build such a sturdy-looking structure?


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 7, 2011)

No sorry, what I meant was the doubled arched bridge in the old photo looks wide enough for a small road/lane. The recent photographs from the last few years suggest it's way to small to be classed at anytime as a road or lane which really it must of been in the old photograph because it's by a house and the walls from either end of the bridge also suggest that too...I think.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Well, packhorses bridges wree built for centuries so it's hard to pinpoint what century it was built in.  I've found stone packhorse bridges built in the 1500s and ones built a couple of hundred years later looking very similar.  Maybe Cybertect can tell us if construction changed dramatically at any time, but as Cybertect seems to be ignoring anything I say...!





Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I think we should send Cybertect out with a camera and tell her to get up off her arse and find the answer


 
Well, if you will insist on calling me 'she'... 

I'm not supremely well versed in the changes in construction techniques for small bridges, but I would suspect that the one in the photo dates from before the advent of the railways in the 1840s. After that, brick would likely have taken over from stone.

Before that, for small structures like this, they were liable to use traditional techniques that changed little over the centuries. Engineers like Thomas Telford were the first to start applying modern thinking to bridge design at the end of the 18th century.




Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Could have been on holiday or on some assignment?



FWIW, for most people, taking a holiday is itself fairly unlikely in the 19th century. 

Taking a full plate camera (with tripod, etc.) with you on holiday is highly unlikely, especially if you were still using wet plate technology which meant literally carting a laboratory around with you in a van, like this one used by Roger Fenton in the Crimea.







There was a very brief window of opportunity between preparing the plate with chemicals, taking the photograph and then developing and fixing the image.

mick's already mentioned that the bridge image is a wet plate negative.*

If it was further afield, then some kind of commission or project would be a more likely reason for that.

* e2a: Dry plate technology, which was developed in Britain in the 1870s, enormously opened up the opportunities for photographing further afield with more lightweight equipment.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

I really can't believe that I'm *still *googling fucking packhorse bridges 

*get a life Minnie*


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

BTW, has anyone else noticed the young lady peeping out of the window of the house? 

Technical note: that suggests a relatively short exposure time, as her image is quite sharp.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

Other things to think about...

There's a stream and an industrial looking chimney. It's certainly not domestic.

One might suppose that there was a water wheel providing power for something (a mill or factory of some kind) that then was replaced by a steam engine.

You have to be able easily to supply coal to fuel the steam engine, so it's probably not far from a railway line or (maybe more likely) a canal.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Other things to think about...
> 
> There's a stream and an industrial looking chimney. It's certainly not domestic.
> 
> ...



I already mentioned a mill/millhouse and the chimney.

I tell ya, I swear I'm talking to a brick bridge   The reason I started looking for packhorse bridges was because I started looking at canals


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 7, 2011)

Ah! There is one of a water wheel...but it's dry plate so a lot later. Though the later batch could of been taken by the same person. Though I've yet to make any connection on that.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Well, if you will insist on calling me 'she'...
> .



I know, and after I typed it, I thought "shit, must go back and change that" and forgot.  

Anyway, why are all my suggestions and queries being ignored by you.  I thought you were an architect or something.  I'd like answers to my questions


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Well, if you will insist on calling me 'she'...
> 
> I'm not supremely well versed in the changes in construction techniques for small bridges, but I would suspect that the one in the photo dates from before the advent of the railways in the 1840s. After that, brick would likely have taken over from stone.
> 
> ...


 

Absolutely no point in telling me about wet and dry plates as I know nothing about photography, although interesting to see that picture and how much someone would have to lug around if they were on holiday  

Wouldn't it be great if that guy came forward into the future and you gave him a HD camera that fits in the palm of your hand.  Like Back to the Future reversed


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 7, 2011)

Also I like the look on that womans face like 'What the fuck are you doing down there'..


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Also I like the look on that womans face like 'What the fuck are you doing down there'..


 
I reckon it's "you're late, you lazy little shit, I'm docking your wages"


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

Is it possible that that particluar river may now have dried up or even been diverted making it not as recognisable as it once was?


----------



## cybertect (Mar 7, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Those cutwaters (if that's the right term for those pier things) are completely different


 
Yes. That's the right term



Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Obviously it's not, but don't you think it's very similar to Hebden Bridge (although different arches)?



This Heben Bridge?

http://www.hebweb.notaproblem.co.uk/Nigel/page1/Pics2/Bridge.JPG

Er, not particularly. It's a stone bridge, but on a much different scale. They mostly work in similar ways.



Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I already mentioned a mill/millhouse and the chimney.
> 
> I tell ya, I swear I'm talking to a brick bridge   The reason I started looking for packhorse bridges was because I started looking at canals


 
maybe you did, but you hadn't mentioned canals on the thread before that post. 

Dare I say that I was also the first person to comment on the chimney... 

My point was to put all of those things together to help narrow down the possible locations.

anyhow



Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Is it possible that that particluar river may now have dried up or even been diverted making it not as recognisable as it once was?


 
I think it's entirely possible. The stream is clearly silting up in the photo. Small rivers like that got paved over. Even relatively major rivers in London like the Fleet had been diverted underground by the nineteenth century, the only reminders we have are in names like Fleet Street.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 7, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Yes. That's the right term
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I'm pleased I got those cutwaters correct and have been sitting here all day waiting for you to confirm that they are indeed cutwaters.  Thank you missus, er, mister! 

Yes, I realise Hebden Bridge is much larger, the arches are a different shape etc. but I was talking more about the stonework itself, ie. block/brick style stonework as opposed to erm... 

doesn't matter


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 8, 2011)

cybertect said:


> I think it's entirely possible. The stream is clearly silting up in the photo. Small rivers like that got paved over. Even relatively major rivers in London like the Fleet had been diverted underground by the nineteenth century, the only reminders we have are in names like Fleet Street.


 

The bridge is probably gone and been replaced by a council housing estate


----------



## cybertect (Mar 8, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> The bridge is probably gone and been replaced by a council housing estate


 
You've been looking at Nauls Mill House, haven't you? 

[It's a fairly prominent landmark on the ring road; they built a park on the site at the end of the 19th century, using the mill pond as a boating lake, then repurposed it after the war]

Consulting with mrs c, there were loads of mills all over Coventry which have all been obliterated (Priory Mill and Henley Mill being some other notable examples).


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 8, 2011)

cybertect said:


> You've been looking at Nauls Mill House, haven't you?



No, but will have a look now 

On that house, what type of chimney pot is that called with the spikey effect? 

Were chimney pot styles regional or more to do with particular years or just suppliers or none of the above?  

eta:  What a monstrosity  

I'm going to give up on this soon and assume the council knocked the bridge down and built an estate over it


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 8, 2011)

Are there any hi res pictures of the single arched bridge Nick?


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 8, 2011)

Mick!..not at the moment but it could be arranged.

Also I agree with you about things being tarmaced over. There is a local mill that was demolished a while ago. In the foundations they discovered two, I guess packhorse bridges that were very old. They were around for a week or so for local people to have a good gawp at them. Then they got the tarmac treatment again, so people could park their cars over them, which I thought was a shame.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 8, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Mick!..not at the moment but it could be arranged.
> 
> Also I agree with you about things being tarmaced over. There is a local mill that was demolished a while ago. In the foundations they discovered two, I guess packhorse bridges that were very old. They were around for a week or so for local people to have a good gawp at them. Then they got the tarmac treatment again, so people could park their cars over them, which I thought was a shame.


 

Mick, Nick, what's a letter....   Anyway, stop nitpicking.  At least I got your sex right  

I'm too busy looking at bridges and millhouses and fashion to remember your name  

Shame about them being tarmaced over.  I reckon that's what's probably happened to these ones.  Still, couldl be worth sending the pics to the local Coventry papers to see if anyone can place them


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 8, 2011)

Alas I forgot the other photo with the bridge on with the single arch, I don't have the negative for that..

I've just tried looking at the water wheel negative and it's nothing to really write home about. It's a dry plate neg and by the standard of photography alone, I presume it's another photographer other than the early wet plate stuff. I'll stick this on anyway, but I don't think we'll get any mileage out of it. It would just of been nice to try and make a connection between the early and later stuff and maybe even get some idea on the location of the double arched bridge.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 8, 2011)

Nah, don't think it's this as wheel looks too wide






Would be nice if it was this, but doesn't look right either






Hopefully someone else will get it by the time I wake up later on.  Goodnight


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 8, 2011)

I think all thats been done to be honest, so seriously thanks for help on those. It was brilliant working all that stuff out.

If I could give it one more shot. I purchased a few of these buggers about 18 months ago, which was described as 1920's Art Deco on the cheap for what they are. Much to my delight on first inspection..they were not 1920's or indeed 'Art Deco', but something substantially better than that.

They are the originals as well..making these, I guess worth a few quid. There is two of these, I've never fully got to the bottom what was going on here and I don't know London that well. This shot was taken on Warwick Street in around the 1880's? I have had a google and Warwick Street looks nothing like this..it appears a lot smaller.

So where is this in this day and age. More importantly what is going on? It would appear to be something to do with Queen Victoria and some kind of celebration. Also who are characters in the carriage? Some kind of royalty by the looks of it.

I love this shot though more for all the characters on the roof or hanging out of the windows and on the high res really gives you a feel of being there. It sort of opens a window to long ago.






High Res

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5216/5511097508_2f93e5c0f5_o.jpg


----------



## cybertect (Mar 8, 2011)

Judging by the among of bunting and the costumes people are wearing, It could be Victoria's Diamond Jubilee celebrations in 1897.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 8, 2011)

Yep, it looks rather like it was the parade in June

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=52109

e2a: at London Bridge Station

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/3360555/Hulton-Archive


----------



## cybertect (Mar 8, 2011)

Picking up on the fact that the procession for Victoria's Diamond Jubilee went over London Bridge and down Borough High Street...

There used to be a Warwick Street in Southwark in 1897, it was renamed Milcote Street in 1912. [Google Map]

I haven't been able to find an itinerary for the parade, but it seems reasonable to surmise the route went this way and then right at St George's Circus, up Blackfriars Road and back over Blackfriars Bridge (which Victoria had opened in 1869) to the City and St Paul's for the big finale.


The building on the corner of Milcote [Warwick] Street and Borough Road is Murphy House, which was built two years later in 1899.

If the caption is accurate, I think what we're looking at is approximately this view in modern London.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 8, 2011)

Ha!

http://www.museumoflondonprints.com/image.php?id=139371&idx=7&fromsearch=true




			
				Museum of London said:
			
		

> Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee: A View of the Processional Route from Borough Road. Oil painting, giving an impression of the decorations along the processional route for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, 22 June 1897. The viewpoint is from Borough Rd, Lambeth, looking west towards St. George's Circus. Examples of stands erected in front of buildings can be seen on the left, with Life Guards and other troops lining road, awaiting the procession.
> 
> Artist/Photographer/Maker
> Mary Edith Durham
> ...



If I'm right, this painting was done from just about the same spot, but looking west instead of north east.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 8, 2011)

I woke up an hour ago and I was dreaming.  I was down a mine shaft (that was 40,000 feet down)...













































looking for bridges


----------



## cybertect (Mar 8, 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_South_Bank_University




			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> On 10 October 1894, the National School of Bakery and Confectionery (later the National Bakery School) was opened with 78 pupils. *In 1897 the Polytechnic was let to sightseers who wished to see the Diamond Jubilee parade for Queen Victoria* and in 1902 the Borough Road building was once again let to sightseers who wished to see the Coronation parade of King Edward VII. Through a donation from Mr Edric Bayley, the Edric Hall was built in 1908, along with the Lancaster Street extension buildings which gave the Polytechnic new bakery rooms, gymnasium, workshops and its triangular campus site.








LSBU is still on the same site, just opposite Milcote Street.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 9, 2011)

Good grief Cybertect, thats an unbelievable amount of detective work and nailed what I've been trying to do for ages.

I was working on the idea that it could of been one of Queen Victoria's Jubilees or I wasn't sure if was some kind of Royal Wedding or something along those lines.

Also the fact that 'Warwick Street' was renamed didn't help matters. I recall, I think there is another Warwick Street somewhere in London and that didn't work out for whatever reason as well.

So cheers!

The high res link didn't seem to work on my browser so I've reloaded it.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5216/5511097508_2f93e5c0f5_o.jpg

Minnie, I just thought it made a change from looking for probably long gone bridges.

Edit.

Yeah, 100% here is another image.

http://www.heritage-history.com/books/cambridge/primary/zpage213.gif


----------



## cybertect (Mar 9, 2011)

No need to Google for that 

It's outside the front of St Paul's Cathedral on the same day.

e2a: same photo as on this page

http://blog.londonconnection.com/?p=1262

Oh, hang on, that wasn't one of yours, was it?


----------



## cybertect (Mar 9, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Also the fact that 'Warwick Street' was renamed didn't help matters. I recall, I think there is another Warwick Street somewhere in London and that didn't work out for whatever reason as well.


 
There were quite a few of them (Warwick Streets, that is).

AFAICT there was a lot of renaming of London streets with the same name around the turn of the century, presumably to help avoid confusion between them for post, taxis, etc. I've come across the same thing in the past when researching things like family history. You can't necessarily rely on them being the same now as they were in the 1880s.

I noticed last night when looking at the high res version that a _WARWICK STREET S.E._ street name sign is on the wall of the building on the corner. _S.E._ should have been a give-away (old fashioned shorthand for SE1). I was working mostly on gut instinct that it felt like somewhere in the area (I happen to work less than a couple of miles from there). It certainly wasn't Westminster.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 9, 2011)

Love the old ads on the building.  Daily Telegraph - largest circulation in the world.  Beechams Pills - worth a guinea a box!  

Also love the little groups framed in the windows, terrific little vignettes in themselves.

Fantastic detective work there Cyber!  Its added a new layer to The Borough area for me!


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 9, 2011)

I was browsing the digital collection of The Museum of London and was disappointed by the lack of detail in the descriptions.

"Busy street scene with horse-drawn cab in foreground; c1900".


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 9, 2011)

I know this sounds a bit crap..but this neg cost me 4 quid along with another..for another 4 bar. I always hoped Victoria might be in that carriage..but it was too blured e.t.c.

But this totally confirms it..though hidden under an sun umbrella..darling.

I just love the detail in this photo of all the characters in the crowd and stuff like the posters on the wall. I guess in the past I got too caught up trying to age it from tryng to read all the posters e.t.c. and not the main event.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 9, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Ha!
> 
> http://www.museumoflondonprints.com/image.php?id=139371&idx=7&fromsearch=true
> 
> ...


 
Actually, looking at it again, I am now wondering if the painting was done from the opposite side of the street and the artist, Mary Edith Durham, was sat somewhere in amongst the crowd in the stands on the right hand side of your photo


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 11, 2011)

This is _still_ my favourite thread 


MORE!


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 14, 2011)

This is around the back of the old Ford's Hospital.









I've got another job lot of these old negatives. This first one is a dry plate and I presume a copy of the original, but still no doubt pretty rare and of better quality than a postcard or whatever. I also found it in the local library of photographs.

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00247

On a more exciting note for myself, I found a copy of the 'Three Tuns Commercial Inn' in the same photograph library..

My copy.







The Coventry Library copy.

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00178

As far as I can see by a very long way this is the original negative for the photograph in the library..also being wet plate makes it fit the date. I would now love to try and find out who the photographer is? It's not mentioned in the library information alas. So I'm quite buzzing off that!

Right I'll go and get my anorak..


----------



## cybertect (Mar 14, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> As far as I can see by a very long way this is the original negative for the photograph in the library..also being wet plate makes it fit the date.


 
Blimey, it does rather look like you're right. 

Their picture search wasn't working when I tried it before.

e2a: interesting detail: they also have this photo of the same place, but with scaffolding on the church tower. There appears to be the same cart parked in the same place on Warwick Lane


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 14, 2011)

...


mick2007 said:


> ...
> On a more exciting note for myself, I found a copy of the 'Three Tuns Commercial Inn' in the same photograph library..
> 
> My copy.
> ...









Posted that pic back in post #62, wasn't a 100% sure that this was the same 'Commercial Hotel'.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 15, 2011)

Certainly is the same gaff Minnie.

All I can guess about this one is it's some old guy working on something in a workshop. It appears to be woodwork? I know very little about machinery..let alone machinery from this period.

So if anyone can extract any kind of info from this photograph as to what is going on e.t.c. it might help and try to locate where it might be e.t.c. Though I guess that's a bit of a tall order.








High Res

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5173/5527912677_468e9bfc27_o.jpg

I haven't really had chance to have a search on this one.








High Res.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5297/5528614394_eb0475774c_o.jpg

Crop.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 15, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Crop.


 
Quite probably Barras Lane; in Coventry, again. Looking up the Holyhead Road (or possibly down Coundon Road at the eastern end)

Google StreetView

A lot of late Victorian slum clearance occurred in Coventry according to mrs c. Which would fit with the age of the houses in the present view. 

e2a: She also says it's pronounced "Bars", not "Ba-rass"


----------



## cybertect (Mar 15, 2011)

Could be a coincidence, but might be of relevance...

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,285215.msg1683573.html




			
				Coventry Apprentice Enrollment thread said:
			
		

> There is  only one Charles Gibbs on the disc, his indenture and enrolment  is dated 9/5/1865 as coachbuilder.  Father Johnathan, abode Coventry, His master was his father Johnathan Gibbs.
> 
> There was also a Harry Gibbs indenture and enrolment 4/11/1871 as coachbuilder with johnathan as father and master.
> 
> There was also  a james gibbs (master) coachbuilder.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 15, 2011)

Update.

How about Spon End 

Index to “The History of Warwickshire” by William West (1830)
Surnames beginning with 'G'



> GIBBS, James	 Coach & Harness maker, Spon End, Coventry	 771



http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c01034

[Photo of Spon End from the Coventry Library collection]






check out the chimneys

And upon double-checking her family tree, James Gibbs is actually an ancestor of mrs c, her great-great-great-great-great grandfather, born in 1796 

e2a: I'm informed that 'Spon End' is a term for the area, so that is quite possibly Spon Street.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 15, 2011)

The old chap is probably either a watchmaker or a tool maker (other relatives on the in-law side in that trade too). Mrs C refers to the scene as a 'top shop'.

A reasonably well off one with all that glass. Precision work judging by the gearing on the lathe.

Might fit with the watchmaker on the right in the street scene, but that's further conjecture.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 15, 2011)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,293597.0.html



> I would be pleased for any details of James Gibbs, coach builder of Spon St, Coventry, both as to whom he was apprenticed, and those apprenticed to him (hopefully giving his sons' names).
> 
> He was born in 1796 and so I'd guess that he started his own apprenticeship at about 13/14 years of age, so about 1810. He continued at his trade until his death in 1866.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 15, 2011)

An example of a 'Top Shop' from the Coventry Library site

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00539






Before people worked in factories, they'd take in piece work at home.

The family lived in the floors below, with the workshop on the top floor with plenty of natural light.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 15, 2011)

cybertect said:


> The old chap is probably either a watchmaker or a tool maker (other relatives on the in-law side in that trade too). Mrs C refers to the scene as a 'top shop'.
> 
> A reasonably well off one with all that glass. Precision work judging by the gearing on the lathe.
> 
> Might fit with the watchmaker on the right in the street scene, but that's further conjecture.


 
Hmm.  Are those trees outside?  Are those bars on the windows?  


e2a:  this could be the place to ask about the old machinery and workshop


----------



## cybertect (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, I think they are bars.

Valuable machinery and his livelihood need protection.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 16, 2011)

Cybertect,

Your attention to detail has been staggering! did I read right, that your an architect or something like that? It would fit how you notice certain parts of the photographs. I've just been re-reading some of your posts on here about the dates of some of these glass negs. It would really now appear that some of these at least date from the 1870's...I didn't really believe it at first because I thought they were copies.

I got in touch with Rob who runs the 'Historic Coventry' website and is no doubt reading this (cheers Rob, I'll email after this).

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/main/history.php

He sent me an amazing reply about the street scene photograph and I'll ask him if I can copy some of it on here.

You of course are correct! I did quite a bit of searching but couldn't really come up with anything concrete. Apparently the road names have been swopped around a little over time.

I started by trying to search the coach builders...couldn't really find anything myself. Unbelievable that you are related! It was worth sticking that on for that alone.

When I got up something just struck me..

Rob said that he had read that Joseph Wingrave's negatives had been donated to Coventry Library by his son...call me a fool if you want..

The photograph of the bloke working in his workshop..the negative is a dry plate..so a lot later than the others. You don't think thats Joseph Wingrave as an older man?!






Compare potential younger version.

http://www.historiccoventry.co.uk/broadgate/broadgate2.php

It is of course stated earlier on..that Joseph Wingrave was the only photographer who took photographs around Coventry from this early period of the 1860/70's. I have to say that the wet plate negs are exceptionally well taken and the quality on high res for that period of photography suggests to me someone who really knew what they were doing. I feel a lot has to do with the development period..I have negatives from even upto the 1940's that are professionally taken and they are not as detailed e.t.c. as these on wet plate here...being a chemist he would know that.

What would solve who took these, is if I could find out if there is a name in Coventry Library on the one I found there.

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00178

I've emailed them.

...well that was exciting..


----------



## cybertect (Mar 16, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> Cybertect,
> 
> Your attention to detail has been staggering! did I read right, that your an architect or something like that?


 
I have a degree in Architecture, though I do database systems and networks these days. 



mick2007 said:


> You don't think thats Joseph Wingrave as an older man?!


 
I'd be rather surprised if it were him (certainly that it was his workshop) unless he decided to act as his own model for the scene.


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 16, 2011)

Maybe you could become Victorian photographic detective.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 16, 2011)

We haven't discussed my fee for this thead yet, have we?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 16, 2011)

cybertect said:


> We haven't discussed my fee for this thead yet, have we?


 
£1 per hour


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 16, 2011)

Looks like a sign for Thomas Marston, Watchmaker, Spon Street may have been there, but I'm not sure that's an "s" after the M in the shop sign for watch manufacturer


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 16, 2011)

What do you reckon that stripey pole is cybertect?

Reminds me of the old barber poles but completely different IFSWIM


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 16, 2011)

Maybe it was a barber.  Maybe a barber surgeon wo performed blood-letting.  Found this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyg1955/3658580694/


----------



## blossie33 (Mar 16, 2011)

cybertect said:


> An example of a 'Top Shop' from the Coventry Library site
> 
> http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c00539
> 
> ...



This thread is so interesting - it's made me look at Coventry in a new light  (I am originally from B'ham and never found it very interesting from my few visits there!

Love this photo - I'm familiar with the Hugenot weavers houses in Spitalfields but never knew there was anything like that in the Midlands.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 16, 2011)

not to be confused with 




Topshop by Jeff Croft, on Flickr



Actually, here's a set of topshops on the lower Holyhead Road in Coventry

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pikerslanefarm/tags/lowerholyheadroad/




13-29, Lower Holyhead Road. Coventry. by amandabhslater, on Flickr


----------



## cybertect (Mar 16, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Looks like a sign for Thomas Marston, Watchmaker, Spon Street may have been there, but I'm not sure that's an "s" after the M in the shop sign for watch manufacturer



I thought that looked more like _MAR*D*_, rather than an _S_



Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What do you reckon that stripey pole is cybertect?
> 
> Reminds me of the old barber poles but completely different IFSWIM


 
reckon it probably is.


----------



## Midland Red (Mar 16, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
The Commercial or Temperance Hotel on the corner of Union Street and Warwick Lane is not the same as The Three Tuns Commercial Hotel which was on Warwick Road close to Bull Yard at the bottom of Hertford Street - if you stood outside the Three Tuns and looked at 45degrees to your left, you would be looking at The Temperance Hotel over the road


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 16, 2011)

cybertect said:


> I thought that looked more like _MAR*D*_, rather than an _S_
> 
> 
> 
> reckon it probably is.



Yeah, I thought anything but an *S* but I think it was the only watchmaker on that list of surnames that began MAR.  However,  I think I remember that list being from 1830s so probably not the same.  Need a census of Spon Street for 1871 maybe?

Have found other barber/surgeon poles similar. 







 Did wonder as the one in the picture doesn't seem to have a bowl, but doesn't look like this one does either


----------



## cybertect (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm pretty certain that the building on the corner of Barras Lane is this one

http://www.cwn.org.uk/heritage/orga...reservation-trust/1999/01/990113-car-link.htm






now preserved by the Spon End Building Preservation Trust, apparently


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 16, 2011)

This is how it looks today.  Bit confusing because although it says it's at the junction of Barras Lane/Spon Street, on google maps, it seems to become  Windsor Street  






The end property looks nothing like it used to.  I'm guessing it's been converted into two shops?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 16, 2011)

Before restoration


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 16, 2011)

Info on the restoration

http://www.regenwm.org/media/documents/blackswanterracerevadewm.pdf


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 17, 2011)

OK, Here is the reply I got from Rob from the Historic Coventry website.

'It's Spon Street looking westward, taken from somewhere near the modern-day Percy Street.  At first, like yourself, I also thought from the "Barras Lane" sign that it must be Holyhead Road, which a modern map would lead us to believe.

However, the street names around there have apparently been altered, and rather than Windsor Street joining up Holyhead Road to The Butts, according to both my 1851 and 1905 maps Barras Lane used to continue southward, ending at Spon Street - with Windsor Street forming a crossroad off to the south (left on your wonderful photo).

The building that you used to show the close-up of the street name....
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5300/5528051051_08c2761bf0_o.jpg
is the old Black Swan - part of the Swan Terrace, and is on the north-west corner of the Spon St - Barras La - Windsor St junction.  I have a friends photo of that pub from around 1900, and have copied it below - you can still see the street name under the eaves, although possibly repainted or altered.  Another photo is on the library site here...
http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk.../www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk/jpgh/c05865.jpg

I think, judging from the pub numbering in my book "The character of Coventry", that the pub on the right of your photo is the Windmill at number 105 (not the Old Windmill, which is still in existence farther down the street on the other side, nearer 'town').'


This one is an old hall that burnt down in 1889 called Bagington Hall... obviously taken before the fire..








..and here's the after effects.








There's a good read about the history of the place here.

http://www.baginton-village.org.uk/...-baginton-hall/4-baginton-hall-the-great-fire

I also found again a copy of the neg I have in the Coventry Library..which makes me want to know even more now, who took these buggers.

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk...yout=coventry&keyval=coventry.image_no=c05207

I can't seem to find a thing on this one, so be my guest..


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 17, 2011)

Midland Red said:


> The Commercial or Temperance Hotel on the corner of Union Street and Warwick Lane is not the same as The Three Tuns Commercial Hotel which was on Warwick Road close to Bull Yard at the bottom of Hertford Street - if you stood outside the Three Tuns and looked at 45degrees to your left, you would be looking at The Temperance Hotel over the road


Aha, although similar I could only imagine that there must have been a major extension and refurb for the Temperance to have become the Three Tuns.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 17, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Looks like a sign for Thomas Marston, Watchmaker, Spon Street may have been there, but I'm not sure that's an "s" after the M in the shop sign for watch manufacturer



Across the road from the watchmaker is "Gibbs Coach Builder" in the high res image

Perhaps the old guy in the workshop is James Gibbs himself?  The lathes look like woodworking lathes circa mid 19th century, possibly correlating with the age of the negative and of Mr Gibbs?



cybertect said:


> http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,293597.0.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 17, 2011)

OK Kiddies..

Drum Roll...

There his!....Joseph Wingrave's..

Pour yourself a large one Cybertect..you were right in the early part of this thread.

If you goto the Coventry Library website and type in 'Wingrave' in the bottom search. There are about half that on this thread there.

http://www.picturesofcoventry.co.uk/search.php

To be honest, I absolutely godsmacked..

What's more, I still possibly think that the photograph of the old guy in his workshop is him. I know it's not his natural environment..


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 17, 2011)

So the library has prints but you have the original negatives?


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 17, 2011)

It would appear so!....but only a few of them.


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 17, 2011)

Searching on 'Wingrave' certainly returns a lot of results although none of them have an attribution so how do you know that Wingrave was definitely the photographer?

If you select "W" and then "Wingrave's" from the drop-down list you get only one result.  "Wingrave's shop on the corner of High Street and Pepper Lane." Presumably that is Wingrave himself standing in the doorway.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 17, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> OK Kiddies..
> 
> Drum Roll...
> 
> ...


 
I posted up the list of Coventry photographers in the first place


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 17, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Searching on 'Wingrave' certainly returns a lot of results although none of them have an attribution so how do you know that Wingrave was definitely the photographer?


 
Not sure if I posted this earlier in the thread but Wingrave was apparently the only photographer in Coventry who took pictures outside of his studio


----------



## miss minnie (Mar 17, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Not sure if I posted this earlier in the thread but Wingrave was apparently the only photographer in Coventry who took pictures outside of his studio


So there is no point attributing the creator, the library just assumes that all photos are by Wingrave?  Seems a bit slack.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 17, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> So there is no point attributing the creator, the library just assumes that all photos are by Wingrave?  Seems a bit slack.


 
Yeah, could have been one of those travelling photographers with all that kit on a wagon as mentioned earlier in the thread by you or cybertect (can't remember who posted that picture... sorry!)


----------



## Midland Red (Mar 17, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> I can't seem to find a thing on this one, so be my guest..



This is the old Charterhouse, Coventry - the best image I can quickly find is at http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...easure-its-historic-buildings-92746-28000593/
the 3rd photo on the first page of images


----------



## mick2007 (Mar 18, 2011)

Nothing is ever simple isn't it?!..

I was of the understanding that if I went to a established reference library and typed something in, the results would be factual. I think there are about 130 photographs listed there under 'Wingrave' and being that he was the just about the only photographer taking photographs around Coventry for about 20 years..that number would seem about right, I would of thought.

Yeah, I had tried the pull down menu and only got the odd result before. So it was a surprise, but a pleasant one to see all those listed.

Today the library got in touch about the email I sent the other day, just about the photograph of the 'Three Tuns Commercial Inn'. Though they don't know who took it..I presumed like most photographs from this period they would of been on a 'carte de visite' with the photographers name on the back and possibly the front..so very easy to identify. The quality on the library website certainly suggest they were taken from that.

The library also said that Joseph Wingrave's son donated his negatives to the local library back in 1935..

The reason I now presume that so many photographs are listed under him in the library is because a lot of those were donated to Coventry Library back in 1960 and for whatever reason, were presumed to Mr. Wingrave's...now they're not sure!

So why it's in the search..I don't know.

So it's a very intriguing one.

As for being a 'mobile' photographer..I would question that because of the age difference in some of the photographs..but who knows.

There is still a lot there to suggest they are Joseph Wingrave's though..but you would of thought they would be in the library?

So either way..I would love to know who took took them.

Midland Red...cheer mate..I looked all over for that and couldn't find I thing. I was beginning to think the place had been demolished years ago..look's like it nearly was recently as well!


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## cybertect (Mar 28, 2011)

You've taken a lot of the photos down, mick?

I was wanting to show my mother-in-law


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## mick2007 (Mar 29, 2011)

Sorry about that..

I just thought anybody that was interested would of copied them!

It's just these have turned out to be very rare historic negs and I just didn't want someone sailing in and using the high res for their own ends...not until I've restored them e.t.c.

It's not like I want to make anything from them at all..but other people do..I've had it in the past the odd time.

Give me a bit and I'll put them back up...though minus the high res if you don't mind.


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## mick2007 (Mar 29, 2011)




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## dutchman (Jul 8, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Not directly related to the negatives but I came across this interesting old imgae while searching:



Not the gaol, which was a short distance away, but the public market place:






The cell in the background was only a temporary lockup.


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## creteskyblue (Jul 9, 2011)

*Turks Head,SilverStreet Coventry.*

Hi everybody,

I am trying to find any information concerning the Turks Head at present it is called the Dipolmat & is right at the beginning of Silver Street but my info is that its address was No 29 which would leadme to think that originally it was further along the Street probably some where near the old Matterson's car park.

I am really interested around about 1870 when my Gr Gr Grandfather was the Landlord.


Many Thanks.


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx is a fact fossicker par excellence. If there's anything to be found out, despite the fact that she's in South London, she'll find it.


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## dutchman (Jul 9, 2011)

cybertect said:


> A lot of late Victorian slum clearance occurred in Coventry according to mrs c. Which would fit with the age of the houses in the present view.



Many of the ancient houses in that particular view survived until the late 1960s, albeit converted to business premises.



cybertect said:


> She also says it's pronounced "Bars", not "Ba-rass"



Mrs C. is absolutely correct, it is even spelt "Barr's Lane" on old maps. There are conflicting theories as to why. Some say it had to do with the nearby Spon Street cattle _bars_, others that it leads to Barr's Hill.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 28, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Minnie_the_Minx is a fact fossicker par excellence. If there's anything to be found out, despite the fact that she's in South London, she'll find it.


 
Don't say that!  

I'm struggling.  I've found a picture of the Diplomat Public House on Google maps and I know who his grandfather was, but I don't have much time to look today between shopping and gardening, so giving this a bump.  Need to have more of a look at the surrounding streets to see if it's in the background of some photos listed under other streets

(There is a tudor style building on the opposite corner and there's pictures of that, but probably taken from an angle where The Turks head is behind/or to the side or taken from a totally different street, but I've not looked yet, but just in case anyone else wants to).

The sun is out, I have no intention of searching for photos yet!

There is a quite distinctive building on the corner of the street though which might help.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm going out.  You need Cybertect, Miss Minnie, Paul Russell and everyone else on this thread to have a look!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 28, 2011)

I expected someone to have found pics by the time I got back to save me looking, but nothing!


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## cybertect (Jul 30, 2011)

I only just saw this and I should be going to bed.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2011)

cybertect said:


> I only just saw this and I should be going to bed.


 
Nah, you might as well have a look and see what you can find.  It's Saturday tomorrow


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## mick2007 (Jul 30, 2011)

I see this thread has kicked into life again.

Just as an update this showed up, taken around about the same time as the other on here. So that confirms that.









Also it's well documented that Josepth Wingrave didn't really take photographs after the 1870's..well that isn't true as this carte de visite clearly shows.








So that would explain the later ones dated around the 1880's.

I did have a look for the Turks Head..but alas I couldn't find a thing. The only thing I could suggest is you go into Coventry reference library and ask. They should have thousands of old photographs of the area.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2011)

mick2007 said:


> I see this thread has kicked into life again.
> 
> I did have a look for the Turks Head..but alas I couldn't find a thing. The only thing I could suggest is you go into Coventry reference library and ask. They should have thousands of old photographs of the area.



I'm totally stuck.  Have looked and looked but sod all


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