# Adobe kills development of mobile Flash



## Kanda (Nov 9, 2011)

What it says in the title.. ^^



> Focus in future will be on HTML5 as mobile world shifts towards non-proprietary open standards – and now questions will linger over use of Flash on desktop



http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/nov/09/adobe-flash-mobile-dead


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## elbows (Nov 9, 2011)

Good, even Adobe with their vested interest in flash know when the game has changed.


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## EastEnder (Nov 9, 2011)

Hopefully this will expedite the death of Flash on the desktop too.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 9, 2011)

PLUS ONE


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## Crispy (Nov 9, 2011)

Not _quite_ what it said in the title, so I edited it. They're just stopping any further development.

Also, PLUS ELEVENTY


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## editor (Nov 9, 2011)

Now, if only Apple would stop development of the buggy crock of shite that is QuickTime too, all will be well in the world.


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## Crispy (Nov 9, 2011)

Oh for fucks sake


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## Kanda (Nov 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Oh for fucks sake



Innit  I even removed the bit about Jobs in the headline to avoid this...


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 9, 2011)

lol


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 9, 2011)

Can real player be killed in the face as well please?


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## Crispy (Nov 9, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Can real player be killed in the face as well please?


I thought it was already dead?


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I thought it was already dead?



It is merely buffering.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 9, 2011)

this is a bit mixed news

it does mean a lot of people are now a bit fucked  because they chose flash as platform.  and i'm not just on about  shitty flash websites  but also things like flash game development  which is actually a really  creative little  industry  churning out countless interesting free games.  it may well be a death knell for some. as buggy as shit as flash was it was a excellent entry into that kind of gaming for a would be developer.  hell i bet most  mobile gaming was born from this scene.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I thought it was already dead?



Not yet, although fortunately it's on it's way.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I thought it was already dead?



That is not dead which can eternal lie.
And with strange aeons even death may die.


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## Crispy (Nov 9, 2011)

Desktop Flash will hang around for a while I should think.

In the meantime, there are various extensions/replacements for Javascript being mooted, which should bring rich interactivity to the web without the need for proprietary plugins.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 9, 2011)

i can't see it diapering over night  too much of the web  uses it.   video content online is still  reliant on it  to be honest


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## EastEnder (Nov 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Desktop Flash will hang around for a while I should think.
> 
> In the meantime, there are various extensions/replacements for Javascript being mooted, which should bring rich interactivity to the web without the need for proprietary plugins.


Flash will remain the dominant means for rich media delivery on the desktop for some years yet. It's far too entrenched and so many people/companies have too much invested in the technology to abandon it any time soon. Added to which, the open standards alternatives have yet to provide suitable mechanisms for certain functions to which Flash is currently employed - such as paid-for streamed content. But hopefully this move by Adobe will spur on the development & adoption of non-proprietary technologies and encourage more firms to start investing in a non-Flash based future.


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## elbows (Nov 9, 2011)

They have actually been trying to add a new dimension to flash on the desktop by supporting serious 3D acceleration for games etc, beyond what has been done in the past. But I've not really looked at the detail.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 9, 2011)

Great news, about time they realised the truth that it's shit and should be consigned to history!


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## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> this is a bit mixed news
> 
> it does mean a lot of people are now a bit fucked because they chose flash as platform. and i'm not just on about shitty flash websites but also things like flash game development which is actually a really creative little industry churning out countless interesting free games. it may well be a death knell for some. as buggy as shit as flash was it was a excellent entry into that kind of gaming for a would be developer. hell i bet most mobile gaming was born from this scene.



No. Flash will take quite some time to die on the desktop, people have plenty of time to switch. And comparable tools will be made that utilise other in-browser technologies. And flash on mobile devices has never been a platform that mobile app publishers could rely on, mobile is not the area they built their flash-based casual gaming businesses upon in the first place.

And as for the next generation of casual game developers who are just starting out and don't want to deal with really hardcode programming languages and techniques, in recent times we are seeing competition between 3d game engines heating up, with the benefit that there are now several options which are either low-cost or free for those who don't need all the pro features or aren't going to generate significant revenue from their efforts. This and future developments in HTML5/CSS3/WebGL tools means that there should not be a shortage of options.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 10, 2011)

having movbile flash would have meant  all those already talented  people could transition to the mobile market.  for all the niggles people have about it   it  still doesn't have a direct competitor.

plus  possible future tools  isn't the same  as current tools that a large number of developers understand and are skilled at

i would have though  it would be better to improve flash than dump it


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## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> video content online is still reliant on it to be honest



Its still an important part of the online video mix, but its now just one part instead of being pretty much the whole damn show during the phase some years ago where in-browser video went massive (birth of youtube etc). The transition began some years ago, there remain some significant barriers to progress, but much has already been done.

It helps that Microsoft got well into web standards to save their own skin. There are rumours that Silverlight 5 will be the last version they bother releasing, which should come as no surprise as it never stood much chance against flash, let alone making it in a world where even flash's future went wobbly.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that flash was shit. It made up for a variety of inadequacies in the world of web browsers for many years, and its not quite finished with that role yet. It was shit for modern mobile multitouch devices, where it is useful for some video stuff for now, but woefully inadequate for apps, games etc.


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## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> having movbile flash would have meant all those already talented people could transition to the mobile market. for all the niggles people have about it it still doesn't have a direct competitor.
> 
> plus possible future tools isn't the same as current tools that a large number of developers understand and are skilled at
> 
> i would have though it would be better to improve flash than dump it



Adobe can make tools that have a fairly strong overlap for those already skilled in flash, with a few caveats.

It has a direct competitor, via standards built into browsers. I know people moan about lack of pure and perfect standards in the browser space and there is some truth to that, but new truths have slowly emerged that are clearly real enough to affect Adobes own stance and they wouldn't kill mobile flash without good reason.

Many talented people will transition to other stuff, its not game over for them, and many of the skills involved are not eternally wedded to flash itself. People with an interest in making stuff for mobiles have already been transitioning for years now, they haven't all been sitting around expecting Flash to become something on mobile multitouch devices given enough time. Flashs cross-platform support and high install base was what made it dominant, and Apple and others killed that advantage years ago, and like it or not most have had to come to terms with that by now.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 10, 2011)

it's more than just useful for video at the moment html5 is still fucked for video with no one cross browser codec and the fact that 90%+ have flash but all the people on IE 6 through 8 are fucked for html5

at the moment if you want easy video online flash is still your best bet and even if you chose html5 you will want flash fallback


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 10, 2011)

i'm not saying it isn't genrally a positive move in terms of  technology i was just saying there are downsides


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> but woefully inadequate for apps, games etc.



that's not really true.  there are millions  of fantastic flash games out there.


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## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

I said it still had a use in video, but that doesn't mean you should promote new uses for it in future, or deny that the alternatives for video march onwards. There is a major problem with video formats & html5 across browsers, which is why I said that flash will take quite some time to die. But being relegated from first choice to simple fallback wrapper matters.

There is always a balance to be struck between the past and the future and Im not going to claim it always ends up neat and happy for all. But it will happen and fighting it seems fruitless.

As for 'easy video online' it depends what you mean. Years of no-flash iOS device popularity already mean that the most all-encompassing solution involves h.264 video which can be played natively on iOS and certain other devices & browsers, with a simple flash wrapper as fallback. For end-users who want simple video without needing to know any of this detail, they rely on the video hosting companies who long ago adapted to these realities.


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## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> that's not really true. there are millions of fantastic flash games out there.



Im talking about mobile multi-touch devices. For sure various types of apps and games can be made in flash that work fine on some mobile devices, but flash has never provided the same sort of access to the devices capabilities as the native development stuff for these mobile platforms does.

I know some people wanted things to end differently, to be able to triumphantly rub a wonderful android implementation of flash in the face of people like me. Well it didn't work out that way, and even if the potential was there Adobe never managed to do it properly for much beyond video playback, and now they can't be bothered to keep trying.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 10, 2011)

i'm not sure what you think i'm trying to say. all i said was it was mixed news with certain downsides as well as positives. the possible slow death of the flash games industry is a downside even if people can jump ship.

it would be nice if  we had backwards web compatibly in my opinion.  it would be nice if all the good things that were done in flash could live on


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## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> Flashs cross-platform support and high install base was what made it dominant, and Apple and others killed that advantage years ago, and like it or not most have had to come to terms with that by now.



Im not sure why I said Apple and others there, since it was pretty much Apple alone who se that particular ball rolling. It would likely have happened eventually anyway, but Apple accelerated it considerably.

Anyway like I said earlier flash on the desktop is a slightly different kettle of fish, I will be interested to see if Adobe lose focus on that too. I have a special interest in the next generation of in-browser 3D-accelerated games & their development. But to a certain extent the exact nature of the tech used for this stuff won't end up mattering to all developers, they will use tools that can spit out the resulting games to a number of different target platforms. Unity is a good example, it can spit out apps for windows, os x, android, iOS and consoles. They have their own browser plugin for desktops but have been experimenting with having an option to output as flash for desktop OS's, taking advantage of new flash 3D stuff, since they know that having to get users to install another browser plugin is a significant disadvantage in this space. For all I know flash may do well in this area for a number of years, until presumably various web standards technologies come of age and tool-makers can update their wares to publish using those technologies instead.


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## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i'm not sure what you think i'm trying to say. all i said was it was mixed news with certain downsides as well as positives. the possible slow death of the flash games industry is a downside even if people can jump ship.
> 
> it would be nice if we had backwards web compatibly in my opinion. it would be nice if all the good things that were done in flash could live on



Those things were never fully alive on modern mobile devices in the first place, thats one of my main points. Flash will not live on on all platforms forever, but it will linger on some for ages.


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## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

Just had a brief sniff around the internet, hadn't realised how many flash games people have dabbled with porting to android. Oh well, the world of tech can be tough for those that back the wrong horse or fail to see developing trends, and despite the downsides there is something to be gained from people focussing on tech that is better up to the task. I do feel quite sorry for all the people Adobe has fired as part of this 'refocussing'.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 10, 2011)

it will be intresting to see if  a development product comes along that brings new life to web apps

java never really took off online and never  seemed to get  great mobile support


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 10, 2011)

So I guess this means android tablets just lost their one big advantage over iPad 2 etc?


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 10, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So I guess this means android tablets just lost their one big advantage over iPad 2 etc?


Well, no, it was never much of an advantage anyway, for the same reasons Adobe are killing it.


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## fractionMan (Nov 10, 2011)

Flash is great for some things and shite for others.  I don't see why people are cheering its demise tbh, it's quite good at what it does.


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## magneze (Nov 10, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, no, it was never much of an advantage anyway, for the same reasons Adobe are killing it.


Yes, you use it once and then just turn it off, because it's utter shit and slows website loading down so much.


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## editor (Nov 10, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So I guess this means android tablets just lost their one big advantage over iPad 2 etc?


Well, that and pricing, a wide range of designs available, smaller screen options, more customisation options, USB ports, SD card slots, optional stylus interfaces etc etc.


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## fractionMan (Nov 10, 2011)




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## magneze (Nov 10, 2011)

*yawns*
*unsubscribes from thread*


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 10, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, no, it was never much of an advantage anyway, for the same reasons Adobe are killing it.



Yeah I know I was being sarcastic, no one seriously goes 'this doesn't have flash? Pfft! I'm getting me an Android tablet!'


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## kained&able (Nov 10, 2011)

flash will still exists for games and stuff but as a genuine web platform there isnt anything you can't now do in jquery or html 5 so it should quite frankly die a death.

dave


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## ChrisFilter (Nov 10, 2011)

Great news for those of us working at HTML5-centric app-based startups


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 10, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Great news for those of us working at HTML5-centric app-based startups



Totally.

Good news for the web generally too, let's hope flash dies a death over the next couple years and people get with the HTML5 program!


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## editor (Nov 11, 2011)

This is a good comment on the demise of Flash:



> I once played a gig with an ageing rocker. He was a nice bloke, talented too, but despite the best efforts of a few hardcore fans the gig wasn't a triumph.
> 
> There were more seats than fans, and it wasn't even a seated venue.
> 
> ...



http://www.techradar.com/news/internet/flash-in-the-pan-1039720


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## elbows (Jun 29, 2012)

Another milestone in the death of Flash on Android approaches:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/29/adobe-to-end-new-installs-of-flash-on-android-as-of-august-15/



> Beginning August 15th we will use the configuration settings in the Google Play Store to limit continued access to Flash Player updates to only those devices that have Flash Player already installed. Devices that do not have Flash Player already installed are increasingly likely to be incompatible with Flash Player and will no longer be able to install it from the Google Play Store after August 15th.


 


> Adobe also notes that Flash is officially not certified for use with the upcoming Android 4.1 "Jelly Bean" previewed earlier this week, and users are encouraged to uninstall Flash if and when they update their Android devices to Jelly Bean.


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## EastEnder (Jun 29, 2012)

From this engadget story:


> The company had already said that HTML5 was the way forward on phones and tablets -- now we know just how quickly it's backing up that claim.


 
I could've sworn I remember Adobe taking exception to Steve Jobs' assertion that Flash wasn't appropriate for mobiles....

The sooner the damn crap is history on desktop browsers too, all the better, imho.


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## elbows (Aug 15, 2012)

As its now the date that the Flash player will be pulled from the app store for new users, the BBC have a story up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19267140

iPlayer is mentioned at the end:



> Several also noted that some other apps, including the BBC's iPlayer for Android, also request that Flash Player be installed.
> 
> The BBC said it was working on an update.
> 
> ...


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## Crispy (Aug 15, 2012)

Incidentally, I have installed click-to-plugin on my home computer, which has made browsing the web much more pleasant, as Flash no longer hangs around in memory. I also set youtube to HTML5, which has much better performance in Safari, IME. I haven't actually clicked-to-flash since I installed click-to-plugin, which shows how irrelevant it's becoming.


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## editor (Aug 15, 2012)

I still use Flash an awful lot every day on the sites I visit. I'm not saying I particularly like that fact, but that's how it is.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 15, 2012)

Great news! Now let's hope they kill the desktop version to and this shitty fucking piece of crap can be consigned to history!


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## Crispy (Aug 15, 2012)

They won't (and can't) kill it, but they can stop updating it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 15, 2012)

Crispy said:


> They won't (and can't) kill it, but they can stop updating it.


 
What would be the point of not updating if it'd have no affect?


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## Crispy (Aug 15, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What would be the point of not updating if it'd have no affect?


It would save them money. They can take the money-making part of their flash business (ie. the content-creation and delivery part) and transition it to the HTML5/H264 etc. business, rather than maintaining separate development teams.


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## grit (Aug 15, 2012)

Crispy said:
			
		

> It would save them money. They can take the money-making part of their flash business (ie. the content-creation and delivery part) and transition it to the HTML5/H264 etc. business, rather than maintaining separate development teams.



Why on earth would they surrender the stranglehold grip they have with the platform. That makes no sense, not to mention HTML 5 is not up to the task.


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## Crispy (Aug 15, 2012)

Because: mobile.


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## grit (Aug 15, 2012)

Crispy said:
			
		

> Because: mobile.



Eh.. I don't follow. Adobes approach towards mobile has been doing native deployments through their tools afaic


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## EastEnder (Aug 15, 2012)

grit said:


> Eh.. I don't follow. Adobes approach towards mobile has been doing native deployments through their tools afaic


Adobe are doing are doing a sterling job of developing & making available the necessary tools & technologies to provide extant flash developers an easy path from Flash development to cross-platform mobile development. The problem is that Flash is an unavoidably a dying technology. It's so ingrained that it will be a long & painful death, but its demise is inevitable. It's an environment within an environment, when it comes to mobile. That's the nature of the beast when you cross compile from one environment to another. The optimum is direct compilation from design/development environment direct to deliverable executable. The native Flash environment has nothing to do with a mobile environment, so the hoops to jump through from source to executable are convoluted. Such a solution is a stop-gap at best. Adobe have very sensibly recognised this, and as such are facilitating the transition, whilst prudently diverting most development efforts towards pure mobile solutions (HTML5, etc). Flash is not dead, it won't be for several years yet, but its time is definitely limited.


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## grit (Aug 15, 2012)

EastEnder said:


> Adobe are doing are doing a sterling job of developing & making available the necessary tools & technologies to provide extant flash developers an easy path from Flash development to cross-platform mobile development. The problem is that Flash is an unavoidably a dying technology. It's so ingrained that it will be a long & painful death, but its demise is inevitable. It's an environment within an environment, when it comes to mobile. That's the nature of the beast when you cross compile from one environment to another. The optimum is direct compilation from design/development environment direct to deliverable executable. The native Flash environment has nothing to do with a mobile environment, so the hoops to jump through from source to executable are convoluted. Such a solution is a stop-gap at best. Adobe have very sensibly recognised this, and as such are facilitating the transition, whilst prudently diverting most development efforts towards pure mobile solutions (HTML5, etc). Flash is not dead, it won't be for several years yet, but its time is definitely limited.


 
On the mobile there is no use case, but its position on the desktop is in no way under threat by HTML5. For years we have been told its dying, frankly I'm not so sure. Its a stable technology with huge penetration. I mean there are still thousands of lines of fucking COBOL written everyday.


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## EastEnder (Aug 15, 2012)

grit said:


> On the mobile there is no use case, but its position on the desktop is in no way under threat by HTML5. For years we have been told its dying, frankly I'm not so sure. Its a stable technology with huge penetration. I mean there are still thousands of lines of fucking COBOL written everyday.


I could not disagree with that assessment, where I am uncertain is the future significance of the respective technologies. Not so along ago I would've predicted that Flash had many years left on the desktop, simply by virtue of market penetration and the dearth of appropriate alternatives. To date, I do not believe that situation has changed much, but as to the future, I'm less certain. Primarily due to the markedly increased propensity for the average user to contemplate alternative browser technologies. For many years it was taken as a given that Joe Public bought a PC with a pre-installed browser and that remained their set-up indefinitely. I'm not so sure such inertia persists. TBH, I have no idea how the next few years will play out on the desktop arena, however what I am sure of is that the next few years will be far less predictable than the previous few.


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## elbows (Aug 16, 2012)

On the desktop Adobe have looked at what uses it might last a long time against html5 for, and the big one is games. So they have put most of their efforts into 3D graphics and related stuff, as now being taken advantage of by the likes of Unity. Uses for video will take some time to die out but its well on the way.


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## grit (Aug 16, 2012)

elbows said:
			
		

> On the desktop Adobe have looked at what uses it might last a long time against html5 for, and the big one is games. So they have put most of their efforts into 3D graphics and related stuff, as now being taken advantage of by the likes of Unity. Uses for video will take some time to die out but its well on the way.



Maybe at some stage, but considering html 5 very fragmented support it ain't going to be quick. I think a lot of people discount the size of the problem flash solves


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## EastEnder (Aug 16, 2012)

grit said:


> Maybe at some stage, but considering html 5 very fragmented support it ain't going to be quick. I think a lot of people discount the size of the problem flash solves


I dislike Flash but I'm forced to agree. There is not yet a viable alternative that ticks all the same boxes as Flash. It's an anachronism that introduces as many problems as it solves, web development wise, but it would be naive to think it's going to disappear any time soon. My personal prediction is that it will co-exist with HTML5 based solutions for several years to come, before dying a slow but inevitable death. How long that will take is fiendish to predict, but my guess is that Flash will be a niche technology within 5 years, and a historical footnote within 10.


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