# Anyone looking forward to Alpha Protocol?



## Epona (Apr 21, 2010)

UK release date (PC/PS3/360) advertised as 28th May.

I'll be getting it I think.  I admit I'm not truly bubbling over with excitement about the modern covert ops type thing (I prefer fantasy/sci-fi/futuristic dystopian type settings for RPGs) but it does look quite good.  Dialogue system similar to the Mass Effect series, and long-reaching consequences for your actions etc etc.  I reckon at the very least it will fill in a good few hours while I'm waiting for Fallout:New Vegas, and it might be really great!


----------



## debaser (Apr 21, 2010)

Nah. The James bond style cockery just dosn't quite fit for me in a game like this.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 21, 2010)

Yes. I am excited. I need something new and rpg-ish to help me get over my disappointment at ME2 (still smarting). I have been excited, or rather intrigued and full of decent anticipation, for a good long while now. I like to take it as a good sign that they've been putting the release date back so many times.


----------



## Epona (Apr 21, 2010)

debaser said:


> Nah. The James bond style cockery just dosn't quite fit for me in a game like this.


Yeah I know what you mean.  I'm in two minds about it, half of me thinks it's an Obsidian RPG so it's got to be good, the other half is dubious, I've just never been in to espionage based plots much, it's a bit 'boys toys' for my taste if that makes sense.

But then I've also got time to fill before games I'm _really_ excited about - New Vegas, CIV V (it had better fucking run on my PC, it was CIV IV that caused my last panicked upgrade), Dragon Age 2, and The Witcher 2 all come to mind, and the latter two are a long way off.  So I might end up getting it anyway.  

And I might be really pleasantly surprised, it wouldn't be the first time (it took me ages to discover KOTOR for some bizarre reason, and I bought Morrowind about 3 years before I got around to seriously playing it, having been stupidly put off by the first person aspect of it when I first got it, and those 2 are now in my top 5 PC games!)


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 21, 2010)

debaser said:


> Nah. The James bond style cockery just dosn't quite fit for me in a game like this.



lol

That's atrocious. Still looking forward to it though. If only so I can write a scathing 'gender parity in gaming' article about it


----------



## Epona (Apr 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I like to take it as a good sign that they've been putting the release date back so many times.



Good point, DA:O + Awakening were both released pretty much on schedule and so full of bugs it was shocking.  Delays indicate that they are actually taking some care to make sure it works!


----------



## Epona (Apr 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> lol
> 
> That's atrocious. Still looking forward to it though. If only so I can write a scathing 'gender parity in gaming' article about it



Haha, gender parity in gaming, let me know if you find any!  I know I'm supposed to be playing The Sims rather than shooting/slashing people up.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 21, 2010)

Epona said:


> Haha, gender parity in gaming, let me know if you find any!  I know I'm supposed to be playing The Sims rather than shooting/slashing people up.



As I've mentioned before, the ME forums are good for some good old fashioned gender and sexuality anger  

The lack of gay romance options have sparked a fair few articles around the web about it, and a veritable pr nightmare for the developers.


----------



## Epona (Apr 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> As I've mentioned before, the ME forums are good for some good old fashioned gender and sexuality anger
> 
> The lack of gay romance options have sparked a fair few articles around the web about it, and a veritable pr nightmare for the developers.


Bioware actually handled same-sex romances quite well in Dragon Age, and they got a load of shit about it, it's banned in some places.

But I wasn't actually thinking about romance options for the player character when I posted - yeah that sort of thing adds an aspect of gameplay and party interaction to some RPGs but it's not something that needs to be in every game (and would be out of place in some), and it's not something that needs to be in a game to make it appeal to female gamers like myself (just as long as when it is included, it is done fairly to give as many and as interesting options for female characters - ME2 was dire in that respect, I'd rather they left it out!)  

It's more the thought you get when playing some games that "They put that bit in for the male teenage market" - boobs that wobbled like jelly in cutscenes and collecting sex cards in The Witcher for shagging everything that moved was a bit  to a nearly 40yr old woman iykwim!  It's a great game but wtf?  The last thing I want is games aimed at women, but sometimes a bit less ogling and outright misogyny wouldn't go amiss.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 21, 2010)

Oh for sure, it doesn't need to be in there for a game to be good. And it can be done terribly. The points being made about ME focus on a few things: that romance is a part of the ME franchise already (its significance obviously depends on the player), and is, in fact, something that BioWare includes regularly in its games; then we have f/f same sex options (fully realised in ME1, partially so through Kelly Chambers in ME2), but no m/m option in either game (despite BW being pretty good, if not exemplary, at including it in other games); and they did plan to include m/m content in both games but cut it some time before release (lucky old PC players can access the original files and play them - in particular, Kaidan for manShep (although Shepard mysteriously turns into a woman as soon as they get in bed), and also Ashley for femShep).

It appears the dev team wanted to keep this content in the games but it was vetoed by a 'suit' somewhere higher up in the BW chain of command.

When asked about the lack of m/m content, the answers that have come from Casey Hudson and Dr Ray have been nothing short of downright contradictory and actually a bit insulting (to the hardcore fans, at least).

Anyway, it's a big old hullabaloo for some 600+ people who've joined the group over at the fan forum.

After my rambling, something from your (epona - in case someone else has posted since I've been warbling on) post - games aimed at women. Ugh. What a patronising thought. I don't think romance options mean it's being aimed at female gamers, since all the guys I know who've played these games pursue the romances too. If female gamers is a somewhat new concept (at least, as being recognised as a sizable portion of the market), then why would they have included it in games like kotor? No, I think it's something that is common in certain types of rpg game, because it adds to the sense of immersion and options. 

Do you read kotaku? There was an interesting article they linked to a while back about achievements for sex in games. The article had its flaws, but its basis was solid - that thing about collecting sex cards is pretty dodgy. I also believe there is to be an achievement in Alpha Protocol that you get if you shag all the women in it. Objectification much? Wouldn't be so bad if the guy was bi and you had to shag all the guys too  

I could go on forever.


----------



## Epona (Apr 21, 2010)

VP - I agree with you about "shagged everyone" achievements in games.  As a PC gamer who hasn't owned a console since the old Atari cartridge console many years ago (Pitfall was my personal favourite game!), the whole achievement/trophy thing is something that's fairly new to me, the first game I played which had achievements on the PC was Fallout 3 (and being a console virgin, I was a bit wtf is that? about it at the time)  Oblivion for example did not have them on the PC release, that feature was console only.

The reason I mention the horrendous idea of "games for women" is that many (although by no means all) games released do seem to have a "games for men" (and you can extrapolate that into "games for straight men") element about them.  Despite the fact that if you go to game forums, you'll find plenty of female gamers, and plenty of gamers of either gender who will happily tell you they are gay or bi (at least if the Bioware forums are anything to go by).

The thing is, it wouldn't take much to give most games a wider appeal to those outside of the 'core demographic', and I doubt very much that a few minor changes would make the game less appealing to those who fall within that demographic either.  An option to try to seduce NPCs of either gender rather than just female NPCs (and having some of them say no, rather than making it a forgone conclusion that they will all fall for your charms like starstruck idiots), and not having an achievement that specifically rewards notches on the bedpost would be a start.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 1, 2010)

Did you get this in the end, Epona?

I've just ordered it, should be here some time this week. I haven't read the reviews, past a couple of Amazon, Play, HMV. Prevailing opinion was that shooter fans will hate it, RPG fans will like it a lot.

Seeing as though I fall into the latter category, I'm looking forward to it.

I also ordered Red Dead Redemption and Alan Wake, and despite the hype surrounding RDR, Alpha Protocol will probably be the one I play first.


----------



## Epona (Jun 1, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Did you get this in the end, Epona?
> 
> I've just ordered it, should be here some time this week. I haven't read the reviews, past a couple of Amazon, Play, HMV. Prevailing opinion was that shooter fans will hate it, RPG fans will like it a lot.
> 
> ...


Not yet - I want to read a couple of reviews and find out which gamers are praising/slagging it for what reasons first!  If I'm convinced I might love it within the next few days I'll probably pick up a copy over the weekend.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 1, 2010)

I was until I played it...



The game mechanics are weak, it is painfully linear and ugly as fuck.

The RPGish elements are OK and I understand it gets steadily better after the first few missions, but TBH I can't see myself persevering with it.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 1, 2010)

The Groke said:


> I was until I played it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Woe  

I'll persevere. I don't think I have the same standards as others


----------



## tommers (Jun 1, 2010)

I was also going to get it but then i read some reviews.  Funds are low so I have to be careful....


----------



## cybershot (Jun 2, 2010)

Seems to be getting panned by the reviewers.


----------



## Epona (Jun 2, 2010)

Christ, it's not looking good.  The reviews I read all mention the dire minigames (amongst other dire things), and as someone who despises minigames anyway* (if I wanted to do a fucking frustrating puzzle over and over, I could find some irritating flash game for free thanks, rather than have gameplay and immersion continually interrupted by the fucking things - developers please fucking take note!!!) that's put me right off.

*With the exception of lockpicking and hacking in Fallout3 which was implemented well - it actually made some sense, importantly for me wasn't on some savage timer, and got easier the better your character's skill was.


----------



## Epona (Jun 2, 2010)

Seeing how the PC version is on Amazon for a mere 18 squid, I ordered it anyway.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 3, 2010)

Epona said:


> An option to try to seduce NPCs of either gender rather than just female NPCs (and having some of them say no, rather than making it a forgone conclusion that they will all fall for your charms like starstruck idiots), and not having an achievement that specifically rewards notches on the bedpost would be a start.



don't go  there, you'll end up   talking about relationship points and flags

do i eat  lunch on the  roof  with  miyako or do i go to the library to talk to sakura?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 3, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> don't go  there, you'll end up   talking about relationship points and flags
> 
> do i eat  lunch on the  roof  with  miyako or do i go to the library to talk to sakura?



Sounds like the Sims, but I'm assuming with more tentacles and spurting.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 7, 2010)

depends on your  personal preference

some are  really quite  good and  epic  and  have non porn anime versions of them


warning  at least one of this girls  dies


----------



## Epona (Jun 12, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I've just ordered it, should be here some time this week.



VP, have you given it a go yet?  My copy has arrived but I am currently deep in Morrowind (again!) so I probably won't install it until next week.  If you've tried it, let me know what you think of it!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 17, 2010)

I'm near the end of it now, Epona, shall probably finish it today. It was insufferably shit at the beginning, but I've gotten reasonably into it now I've levelled up a fair bit. 

Graphics are wank (I never thought I'd say that because I don't really care about stuff like that). Shooting is wank. You can spend AP on training on your weapon/s of choice, but you're unlikely to spend the AP on more than one, which, when you take 2 weapons into the field with you makes the 2nd one terrible to use.

I'm a spy: my emphasis is on sneaking around stealthily, taking down guards etc with my pistol equipped with a silencer and often times tranq rounds rather than bullets. I've trained up in stealth, pistols and martial arts, and have the option to take them all the way, but because you also want to put a few points into things like toughness, and a little bit of sabotage and tech, you'll likely not reach the top level of your specializations. 

It's nowhere near as customizable as something like Mass Effect. It was touted as the modern day, espionage ME, but it's not. The main thing it has in common is the design of the skills tree, which is very similar to ME1. Except Soldier, Spy or Technician has access to exactly the same skills, it's only the amount of points you can put into them that changes. 

Conversation choices are timed; you get, say, 4-5 seconds to decide which option you're going to go with, which is annoying, but I suppose adds to the tension. You can't initiate conversations, they happen either at set times during missions or once you're back in your safehouse via the video conferencing monitor. It feels rather linear, despite the fact that you can decide which area of the world you go to first to do your missions. I went to Moscow first, then Rome, then Taipei, and I was impressed by how it integrated my choices from previous cities into the later ones, making it feel like that was the correct order to do them in. Next time I play it (because I am going to play it again) I'm going to Taipei first (then prob Moscow then Rome) to see how they do it. I met a lot of people in Moscow who helped me throughout missions in the other cities -I'm interested to see how they crop up in other cities if you haven't already met them.

Reading dossiers (that you accrue over time during missions) is interesting, and you have to do that in order to know what kind of tactics enemies employ, and also so you can gauge your responses correctly in conversations. You do have to make other choices in the game, like whether to kill certain people when you get the chance, or give them the benefit of the doubt to get them on side. I can't see why you'd want to alienate anyone you meet since they can provide crucial help on bigger missions later on, so that makes it less of a choice, in my opinion.

If you're a relatively good person, it's difficult to make money. You pick it up as you move around levels, crack safes, that sort of thing. Occasionally you can sell information - I assume you get more money for selling it to the black market than you do for selling it to a journalist, as I did. I haven't been able to afford everything I wanted. I've got the 2nd best stealth armour, a half decent pistol and rifle, and a few mods for them. Ammo isn't a problem as you pick up loads on missions, but it's relatively cheap to buy if you need to (unless it's specialist ammo). I spent most of my money on intel. You can buy dossiers, or favours in advance of missions, so people will unlock alternate routes for you, sell you a map of the place you're going that has all the security systems marked on it, leave a sniper rifle in a key place for you, or tell you where there's a secret weapons cache. 

End of city bosses are stupid. They run around blindly shooting at you with freaking lasers, rarely staying still so you can get a shot off at them. And if you've invested all your AP in pistols, as I have, your rifle is all but useless against them. But you can't get up close to them, even if you're a master of martial arts, because they are solid up close. I appreciate a difficult end boss, but seriously, it's badly implemented. It's pure luck, hoping the AI will make them hunker down in cover somewhere with a sliver of head poking above that you can keep taking pot shots at. 

I really didn't like the beginning of the game. It makes you go through training rooms to learn how to use weapons and skills. IMO, games should teach you how to use your skills on missions. Making you go into special areas to 'train' is sloppy and poor design. I didn't like how ME2 introduced that (although you could avoid it, and I guess you can in Alpha Protocol too). 

So my verdict: really shit at the beginning; missions do start getting more interesting and fun as you level up; integration of choices seems relatively well done; combat is very weak, but being stealthy is fun; it's not very pretty. It's a decent time sink when you've got work to avoid doing , and yes, I'm going to play it again armed with the knowledge of it I have now, and to see how different choices will play out. 

And I'm going to look for cheats to give me more money


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 17, 2010)

sounds  a bit dodgy then

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1801-Alpha-Protocol


----------



## Epona (Jun 24, 2010)

Cheers VP - I just installed it and am currently struggling with the camera which does not seem to want to point in the direction I'm facing, and the fact it's flipping 3rd person which is currently driving me nuts but I expect I'll get used to it.  The subtitles (which I NEED to have turned on) are shite so far.

ETA: I finally hacked that fucking computer in the first bit, don't know what you're playing it on but using a PC the left hand one you do with the keyboard which is fine, but the right hand one you do with the mouse and it jumps around all over the bloody place, it's really hard.  I think I have a 360 controller somewhere, I might see if it's easier using that if I have to do a lot of hacking!!!  And don't talk to me about aiming with a mouse, blinking impossible.

ETAA: Bugger, can't get my control pad to work, going to have to put playing this on hold until there's a patch that fixes the damn mouse problem (apparently it's not just me) and I'm in with a chance of pointing my sodding gun in the right sodding direction and even possibly aiming at someone!  The PC version is currently unplayable with keyboard and mouse.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 28, 2010)

That's pretty shit, Epona  You'd think they'd have QC's it on a PC before release.

I play on xbox. Apparently, lockpicking is easy on a PC, but after a bit of practice it's a doddle on xbox too. 

So, despite my many niggles with the game, I've played it twice. I really quite enjoyed the sneaky side of levelling up on stealth. I put all my points into pistols (the chain shot thingy you can activate is very, very powerful), stealth (up until the last evasion skill), and martial arts (up until when it all becomes about fury, which I can't see the point in). A couple of points into health and sabotage, and that's all my points gone. 

I've had a look online, and the differences in endings, and permutations of endings is astounding. During my 2 playthroughs I've finished by killing 2 different baddies, had an end sequence with 2 different outcomes (sort of), and different things happened to the 2 big institutions involved. I considered playing again being a run and gun type of wise-ass, but 1) I couldn't put myself through the game yet again without plucking my eyes out; 2) I don't reckon it'd be as good if you weren't being stealthy.


----------



## Epona (Jul 2, 2010)

I am really fucked off.  I paid good money for the game and it's so fucked on the PC I can't play it.  It's something to do with mouse-acceleration or smoothing or something, it just doesn't work properly, I've looked on the internet for fixes and tried everything but it's fucked.  You can't play a game like this if someone's shooting at you and you try to shoot back but can't keep the mouse still enough to aim at them, or if you can't hack a computer because of the mouse jumping all around.  Yeah lock picking was an absolute doddle though!

Yes I could probably buy a proper USB 360 controller and try to play it, but a) I am used to playing games with mouse and keyboard and prefer to carry on with that, b) my hands are unnaturally small (I can get a small mouse, is there such a thing as a mini game pad?  Whenever I've used a console I have trouble reaching all the buttons on the pad), c) I have arthritis in my thumb joints - using keyboard and mouse you barely use your thumbs - I can play for hours with no issues, using a control pad I'm in pain in about 15 minutes (although the fact I have to stretch due to point b probably doesn't help).

And I can confirm that the subtitles are indeed shit, they flash up and sometimes end mid-word to have the rest of the word flash up at the beginning of the next line of text.  IRL I rely on lipreading to a certain extent - even in games with the best graphics available it is not possible to lipread the characters.  Most of the games I play have great subtitling, so I'm quite disappointed with the shoddy effort here.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 10, 2010)

I reckon all those points would be worth emailing the developers about. I expect they will attempt other games in this genre in the future (because, despite its flaws, of which there are many, not least those you mention, it has had some decent-ish reviews that say it's a good idea 4 years too late), and having this kind of accessibility feedback is important.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 22, 2011)

for anyone who didn't play it   it's on steam for £1.50 this weekend


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 26, 2011)

Indeed it is. I've been playing it a little recently because a friend started it and hated it immensely, but then eventually got through it and has started again (he played through on Recruit first ... foolish boy, but at least he has Veteran unlocked for his next run). He is playing on PC. This game is far better on console.

I've played it through 4 times completely now, and each time has had its subtle differences. I've never played a complete dick, who sided with Halbech, perhaps I should at some point. Stealth really is still the only way to go, and as I learned very quickly after my first run, Chain Shot is the talent of the gods. Seriously, invest in that and you'll need nothing other than your trusty silenced pistol for the whole game.

I swear, I'm a million times better at the stealth in this game than I am at it In Deus Ex, and my friend is the complete opposite. I had a bit of a rage quit when I first started playing DE:HR, and he had some epic rage quits playing AP, when he completed DE on the hardest difficulty first time through with no real issues, playing complete stealth and only really using the stun gun. Interesting how 2 games that do have their similarities when it comes to stealth can be so different for 2 people.


----------

