# London Anarchist Bookfair Saturday 18th October 2014



## Kate Sharpley (Sep 12, 2014)

The 2014 London Anarchist Bookfair will be on Saturday 18th October From 10am to 7pm.
Their website is: http://www.anarchistbookfair.org.uk/
The venue is Queen Mary, University of London, Mile End Road, London, E1 4NS.
(The list of meetings is up, but no descriptions of them as yet.)


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## Kate Sharpley (Sep 18, 2014)

The descriptions of meetings _are _up - they're in doc files, one document per room covering all the meetings there.


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## kenny g (Sep 18, 2014)

Any top tips folks - re the meetings? The wine and cheese group don't appear to be there this year. JB's reading is a must. The futility of non-violence meeting looks pretty futile, and is I suspect non-violent, so not sure whether it is contradictory or self supporting.

I suspect the absurd SPGB ban will remain in effect....

ETA:- yes, looks like one of the very few remaining democratic revolutionary groups in the UK are relegated to an outside stall as last year..

http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/event/literature-stall-anarchist-bookfair-east-london-1000am
ETTA:- room 3.15 has the wine and cheese crew for the whole day..


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## gamerunknown (Sep 20, 2014)

kenny g said:


> ETA:- yes, looks like one of the very few remaining democratic revolutionary groups in the UK are relegated to an outside stall as last year..



Must be because those pluralistic revolutionary groups are so unwilling to compromise.


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## TopCat (Sep 27, 2014)

KIll all men! Kill all men!!


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## chilango (Sep 27, 2014)

Hoping to make it along this year....


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## Pickman's model (Sep 27, 2014)

will be in wetherspoons for breakfast.


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 27, 2014)

i haven;t been for a few years, so i think i will come along for the craic.


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## JHE (Oct 2, 2014)

kenny g said:


> I suspect the absurd SPGB ban will remain in effect....


The Speegygeebees don't even claim to be anarchists, so I suppose it makes sense not to offer them space, but shouldn't the bookish Anarchocrats also ban the Bone-ists for abandoning abstentionism?


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## imposs1904 (Oct 2, 2014)

JHE said:


> The Speegygeebees don't even claim to be anarchists, so I suppose it makes sense not to offer them space, but shouldn't the bookish Anarchocrats also ban the Bone-ists for abandoning abstentionism?



Some SPGBers should get over themselves about the supposed 'ban'. It's fucking tedious. It's the Anarchists Party, and they should get to decide who's on the guest list.


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## kenny g (Oct 3, 2014)

imposs1904 said:


> Some SPGBers should get over themselves about the supposed 'ban'. It's fucking tedious. It's the Anarchists Party, and they should get to decide who's on the guest list.



There are very few organisations at the book fair who want to abolish the state. I can't see the harm that would come from adding one with such an illustrious history as the SPGB.


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## butchersapron (Oct 3, 2014)

kenny g said:


> There are very few organisations at the book fair who want to abolish the state. I can't see the harm that would come from adding one with such an illustrious history as the SPGB.


Maybe that history wouuld be so bright it would make the whole thing a joke?


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## kenny g (Oct 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Maybe that history wouuld be so bright it would make the whole thing a joke?



Which thing? The book fair or the SPGB?


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## butchersapron (Oct 3, 2014)

The latter of course.


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## The39thStep (Oct 3, 2014)

Why is the anarchist scene so horrible to the SPGB?


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## kenny g (Oct 3, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Why is the anarchist scene so horrible to the SPGB?



Well, they aren't really. I can remember perfectly cordial meetings with Class War back in the '90's( I am not in the SPGB BTW). But then again many Anarchists were horrible to Class War as well back in the day. Maybe it is something to do with the SPGB being perceived as a constant reminder that your grandparents tried this before you and it isn't a very easy ride.I suppose  strictly speaking the SPGB aren't anarchists, but I suspect very few people at the bookfair are either.


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## imposs1904 (Oct 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> The latter of course.



yeah, you can fuck off as well.


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## rich! (Oct 3, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Why is the anarchist scene so horrible to the SPGB?



their plan of growing as a party until they can achieve socialism through democratic process in 2546 is more plausible than the  plans of all the other left-anarchists?


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## The39thStep (Oct 4, 2014)

rich! said:


> their plan of growing as a party until they can achieve socialism through democratic process in 2546 is more plausible than the  plans of all the other left-anarchists?


What are the plans of other left anarchists?


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## Nigel (Oct 4, 2014)

A few years back the SPK had a stall the Anarchists Bookfair; surely they'd be closer to some sort of Bizarre Althusserian, Sartrian Marxist Leninist twoddle.

http://www.spkpfh.de/index_english.html
No Sweat campaign is mainly a front for Alliance For Workers Liberty; Trotskyist/Pseudo Luxemburgist.  I'm pretty sure that i've seen people involved with Feminist Fightback on some sort of Wimmin's Issues/Feminist stalls there. Not sure if the IWW/IWGB split may cause rumptions regarding this.

There seems yo be many inconsistencies regarding who is and who isn't allowed stalls there: The International Communist Current and other autonomist & council communists haven't apparently been allowed access while Aufheben; admittedly more libertarian have.

Then there is always the case of groups such as Catholic Worker et al which definitely do have authoritarian tendencies within their political ideological and 'spiritual' outlook being regulars.

Is it more a case of not what you are but who you know/get along with which gathers you more favour.


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## kenny g (Oct 4, 2014)

Nigel said:


> A few years back the SPK had a stall the Anarchists Bookfair; surely they'd be closer to some sort of Bizarre Althusserian, Sartrian Marxist Leninist twoddle.
> 
> http://www.spkpfh.de/index_english.html
> No Sweat campaign is mainly a front for Alliance For Workers Liberty; Trotskyist/Pseudo Luxemburgist.  I'm pretty sure that i've seen people involved with Feminist Fightback on some sort of Wimmin's Issues/Feminist stalls there. Not sure if the IWW/IWGB split may cause rumptions regarding this.
> ...



I am not sure it is a case of who you know. Catholic Worker  have a long history of direct action which is to be commended. I really think the likes of the SPGB  are excluded because they are just that little bit too close to home for comfort. Some off the wall neo cult who are into spraying fake blood around military establishments is quite different to a working class revolutionary organisation  who happen to come from a different tradition.  I won't whine on but all I can say is each year I go I meet plenty of good peeps who are present or former SPGBers and they don't appear like gate crashers to the Anarchist's party to me.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 4, 2014)

JHE said:


> The Speegygeebees don't even claim to be anarchists, so I suppose it makes sense not to offer them space, but shouldn't the bookish Anarchocrats also ban the Bone-ists for abandoning abstentionism?


i'm not aware of any class war candidates who intend to take the oath to sit in the westminster parliament, so afaik abstentionism hasn't been abandoned.


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## Nigel (Oct 4, 2014)

kenny g said:


> I am not sure it is a case of who you know. Catholic Worker  have a long history of direct action which is to be commended. I really think the likes of the SPGB  are excluded because they are just that little bit too close to home for comfort. Some off the wall neo cult who are into spraying fake blood around military establishments is quite different to a working class revolutionary organisation  who happen to come from a different tradition.  I won't whine on but all I can say is each year I go I meet plenty of good peeps who are present or former SPGBers and they don't appear like gate crashers to the Anarchist's party to me.


I'm not slating Catholic Worker;they do good work, for instance in London with homeless refugees/Asylum seekers.
What I'm saying is that they, if not in theory then in practice( if not Theology) are not not libertarian or anarchist and by 'the average mans' judgement would support authoritarian concepts; monotheism for a start.

Think your right, there are/is more contemptability and contention between groups that are similar to each other but have minor differences; perhaps because they are seen as the main opposition. The relationship between class struggle anarchists/ libertarian socialists/communists and orthodox marxists(or whatever the SPGB and there various splits are) could have something to do with this stand offishness!


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## William of Walworth (Oct 4, 2014)

Sadly, or possibly quite enjoyably,  I'll be in Oxford that w/e, for beer and football  

But I'll try to enjoy both as anarchically as possible  (plus two of my OUFC mates were always 'independent minded' (mostly about the anti-politics, even more than about the football  --'MAXWELL OUT!'  -- spot the old age ....)


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## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2014)

William of Walworth said:


> Sadly, or possibly quite enjoyably,  I'll be in Oxford that w/e, for beer and football
> 
> But I'll try to enjoy both as anarchically as possible  (plus two of my OUFC mates were always 'independent minded' (mostly about the anti-politics, even more than about the football  --'MAXWELL OUT!'  -- spot the old age ....)


maxwells out -gold blend in


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## ska invita (Oct 8, 2014)

Date is clashing with the potentially big TUC demo http://britainneedsapayrise.org  might affect attendance figures


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## JHE (Oct 8, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Date is clashing with the potentially big TUC demo http://britainneedsapayrise.org  might affect attendance figures



How much smaller do you expect the TUC demo to be as a result of the Anarchist do in Mile End?


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## ska invita (Oct 8, 2014)

JHE said:


> How much smaller do you expect the TUC demo to be as a result of the Anarchist do in Mile End?


 not sure if you are joking, but just in case, i was thinking the other way around


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## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 8, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Date is clashing with the potentially big TUC demo http://britainneedsapayrise.org  might affect attendance figures


Different audience


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## ska invita (Oct 8, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Different audience


yes and no - i think class war are going on it for example


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## Rob Ray (Oct 9, 2014)

It's possible to get to both - the march is only 1pm-4pm (including boring speeches) and the Bookfair is 11am-6pm, and they're only about half an hour apart by Tube.


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 17, 2014)

Rob Ray said:


> It's possible to get to both - the march is only 1pm-4pm (including boring speeches) and the Bookfair is 11am-6pm, and they're only about half an hour apart by Tube.



Yep I am doing the march first with family and neighbours, then bookfair (without them, obvs)

(then Sunday will be at the MayDay Rooms thing on the 2014 (ETA - 1994 ) Criminal Justice Act Protests).


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 17, 2014)




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## krink (Oct 17, 2014)

About time that was published again, seen some daft prices over the years.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Yep I am doing the march first with family and neighbours, then bookfair (without them, obvs)
> 
> (then Sunday will be at the MayDay Rooms thing on the 2014 Criminal Justice Act Protests).


they're doing an event on the 1994 cja protests http://maydayrooms.org/event/revolt...t-against-the-criminal-justice-act-1994-open/

you might have got your wires crossed


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## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2014)

Rob Ray said:


> It's possible to get to both - the march is only 1pm-4pm (including boring speeches) and the Bookfair is 11am-6pm, and they're only about half an hour apart by Tube.


but a thousand miles apart in politics


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## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


>



A nice poster here contributing a biographical foreword.


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 17, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> they're doing an event on the 1994 cja protests http://maydayrooms.org/event/revolt...t-against-the-criminal-justice-act-1994-open/
> 
> you might have got your wires crossed



Yes that's what I meant, apologies for confusion.

perhaps my subconscious wants the meeting to spill out into a riotous protest though.


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## imposs1904 (Oct 17, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


>




Maybe the republication will kick forward the publication of Quail's book on Solidarity.

. . . but now that I think about it, the earliest publication date would probably be for next year's Anarchist Bookfair.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2014)

imposs1904 said:


> Maybe the republication will kick forward the publication of Quail's book on Solidarity.
> 
> . . . but now that I think about it, the earliest publication would be for next year's Anarchist Bookfair.


give you something to look forward to.


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## imposs1904 (Oct 17, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> give you something to look forward to.



No, I won't be fooled again. He's been working on it for at least 12 years.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2014)

imposs1904 said:


> No, I won't be fooled again.


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## chilango (Oct 17, 2014)

If anybody wants to go for a pint late afternoon give me a pm, I'll be kicking about the bookfair mid afternoon onwards on my tod so would appreciate not having to drink on my own! May join the march earlier on too, but that's less certain.


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## el-ahrairah (Oct 17, 2014)

unlikely to be able to make it _again_.  sick animal needs to go to vets tomorrow.


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 18, 2014)




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## chilango (Oct 19, 2014)

Well I quite enjoyed that! 

A lot bigger than I remember them being. 

Interesting mix of stalls, some I wouldn't have minded spending some time chatting with but sheer volume of people made that impossible. 

What was with the guys on the AFed stall dressing in shiny suits like teenagers on their first job interview  ?

Only went to one meeting/workshop as most didn't really appeal.

Still dominated by young counter-cultural types, but not as much as you might think.

The 'spoons had run out of Devil's Backbone by the time I got there and everyone was still being very sober and civilised by the time I left.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2014)

good to see the usual suspects yesterday


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2014)

gutted i missed the peter linebaugh talk - did anyone go?


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 20, 2014)

I was a bit knackered when I got there, so avoided meetings and the pub.

There was a refreshing lack of the stench of body odour this year, I thought.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> There was a refreshing lack of the stench of body odour this year, I thought.



Right, who was barred this year?


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 20, 2014)




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## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2014)

Was there but it was a business day (for once) so sorry to people i normally end up boozing with, just couldn't do it this year. Hope quick hellos and catch-ups weren't taken as brush offs. Expected smaller turnout this year, surprised at very healthy numbers. Only one tiny bit of bother that i saw. Shouting cockney handbags really.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Shouting cockney handbags



O yeh, got their limited edition purple vinyl 12", totally banging and off the hook


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## newbie (Oct 20, 2014)

Fozzie Bear I bought the first of those but missed the second.  Is it also newly published and extracted from local stuff at the time?


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## kropotkin (Oct 20, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


>



Wicked! I'm tempted to buy another copy just so I get Nick's biographies in hardcopy. My Slow Burning Fuse is pre-Heath.


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## Blagsta (Oct 20, 2014)

No good gossip then?


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## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> gutted i missed the peter linebaugh talk - did anyone go?


Ad break: You can catch it again in bristol this weds

WEDNESDAY 22ND OCTOBER
"The Commons or the True Commons" - Peter will present his new book Stop, Thief!: The Commons, Enclosures, and Resistance (PM Press, 2014) at the Hydra Bookshop, Bristol (34 Old Market). The talk will begin at 7.30pm.


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 20, 2014)

newbie said:


> Fozzie Bear I bought the first of those but missed the second.  Is it also newly published and extracted from local stuff at the time?



It's definitely new - same publisher, Past Tense. Looks like the same approach from a quick skim so far.


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## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


>



Talking of pamphlets, did you spot that mark fisher is now doing them for the compass group? That's compass the group that left labour because they (conmpass that is) wanted to allow lib-dems to join.


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 20, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Talking of pamphlets, did you spot that mark fisher is now doing them for the compass group? That's compass the group that left labour because they (conmpass that is) wanted to allow lib-dems to join.



Not seen it, but I always assumed he would end up doing something like that or worse, I'm afraid.



> This new Compass publication, Reclaim Modernity, ignites a towering inferno of hope.





Yeah baby! Ignite my towering inferno of hope!

Sorry to have missed you, btw.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2014)

paul newman, oj simpson- a roll call of the old school


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## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Sorry to have missed you, btw.



Likewise - didn't really get the chance to talk to anyone myself either.


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## chilango (Oct 20, 2014)

Who are Mouvement Communiste? Some of their stuff looked interesting...

...and were both Aufheben and Plan C missing?

Plus did Class War have a stall?

It was busy so I may have missed things.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2014)

chilango said:


> Who are Mouvement Communiste? Some of their stuff looked interesting...
> 
> ...and were both Aufheben and Plan C missing?
> 
> ...


plan c had a stall
but there was nothing on it but the label when i saw it
no aufheben = no loss


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## ska invita (Oct 20, 2014)

class war sold t shirts in the hall at one point

i think class war went on the march as a bloc though


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## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2014)

MC are your standard ultra-left group - they (IIRC) reject all this communisation bollocks. Which is lucky. And do good pamphlets about how the w/c is not present in any number of situations elsewhere.


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## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2014)

ska invita said:


> class war sold t shirts in the hall at one point
> 
> i think class war went on the march as a bloc though


Who did?


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## chilango (Oct 20, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> MC are your standard ultra-left group - they (IIRC) reject all this communisation bollocks. Which is lucky. And do good pamphlets about how the w/c is not present in any number of situations elsewhere.



Worth reading their stuff?


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## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2014)

chilango said:


> Worth reading their stuff?


100%


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 20, 2014)

I read something elsewhere (Libcom?) about Aufheben having to divert energies into problems at the claimants centre they are based in. So no new issue for the bookfair. 

In more trad ultra left news: 

Saw quite a few CWO types handing out their paper Aurora on the March. Picked one up at a stall at the bookfair too. ICC still banished outside.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> ICC still banished outside.


tbh they've not been "banished outside" as they've never been inside.


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## chilango (Oct 20, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I read something elsewhere (Libcom?) about Aufheben having to divert energies into problems at the claimants centre they are based in. So no new issue for the bookfair.
> 
> In more trad ultra left news:
> 
> Saw quite a few CWO types handing out their paper Aurora on the March. Picked one up at a stall at the bookfair too. ICC still banished outside.



I thought the CWO was just one bloke? Should've picked up an Aurora really. But didn't get round to it.

I also don't quite get the logic of CWO inside, ICC outside? No skin off my nose really though.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2014)

chilango said:


> ICC outside? No skin off my nose really though.


pity it didn't piss down


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## ska invita (Oct 20, 2014)

Black Flag is up and running again supposedly after about a 3 year gap since the last issue. New issue, people, energy and plans


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Black Flag is up and running again supposedly after about a 3 year gap since the last issue. New issue, people, energy and plans


same focus on events in the 1930s?


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## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 20, 2014)

chilango said:


> I thought the CWO was just one bloke? Should've picked up an Aurora really. But didn't get round to it.



I think his wife and daughter are members as well


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I think his wife and daughter are members as well


i'm detecting a male hierarchy here


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## Sirena (Oct 20, 2014)

btw If anyone knows Steve Ash (he was a regular at the Bookfair and gave a talk once), he died suddenly on Saturday.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2014)

Sirena said:


> btw If anyone knows Steve Ash (he as a regular at the Bookfair and gave a talk once), he died suddenly on Saturday.


rip


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 20, 2014)

chilango said:


> I thought the CWO was just one bloke? Should've picked up an Aurora really. But didn't get round to it.
> 
> I also don't quite get the logic of CWO inside, ICC outside? No skin off my nose really though.



Well there were a few of them handing out papers on the March. I am sure there are all sorts of Important Political Differences between the CWO and ICC which I will leave others to explain. 

From my limited experience of both CWO people seem a bit less... What can politely be described as... intense.


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## chilango (Oct 20, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Well there were a few of them handing out papers on the March. I am sure there are all sorts of Important Political Differences between the CWO and ICC which I will leave others to explain.
> 
> From my limited experience of both CWO people seem a bit less... What can politely be described as... intense.



Yeah. That's my memory of (indirect) interaction with them. A little less prone to denouncing everyone else as swamp dwelling parasites perhaps. Oh well. It's hardly important.


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## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2014)

Sirena said:


> btw If anyone knows Steve Ash (he was a regular at the Bookfair and gave a talk once), he died suddenly on Saturday.


I knew steve ash for years. We argued about his oh so provocative embrace of post-class anarchism. He called me a mindless thug -  i called him a liberal dilettante. So fitting there was a LAF meeting on just that on saturday. Cheers steve.


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## chilango (Oct 20, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Black Flag is up and running again supposedly after about a 3 year gap since the last issue. New issue, people, energy and plans



Isn't that always the case?


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## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2014)

Just read something on Facebook about someone proposing that white people with dreads be banned from certain meetings? Anyone expand/clarify/confirm/deny?


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## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

This was at a closed meeting for women only on the Sunday and was part of a closed meeting for women of colour within that. So not part of the bookfair as such. Heard some well dodgy stuff about this but need to confirm with participants. 


Blagsta said:


> Just read something on Facebook about someone proposing that white people with dreads be banned from certain meetings? Anyone expand/clarify/confirm/deny?


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## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2014)

I'm somewhat relieved it wasn't at the actual bookfair!


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## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

Blagsta said:


> I'm somewhat relieved it wasn't at the actual bookfair!


Here's something (thanks to sihhi for the tip) 

Emma‏@_eslj
My favourite part of #AFem2014 was when the white ppl with dreadlocks got called out in front of like 150+ people


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## redsquirrel (Oct 21, 2014)

Blagsta said:


> Just read something on Facebook about someone proposing that white people with dreads be banned from certain meetings? Anyone expand/clarify/confirm/deny?


Next move at Glastonbury after banning headdresses.


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## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2014)

Wtf is wrong with people?


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## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

Almost 25% of the meetings were closed meetings.


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## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Almost 25% of the meetings were closed meetings.



So much for democracy.


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## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

moronic


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## ska invita (Oct 21, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> same focus on events in the 1930s?


Cover piece was about Afem, also pieces on UKIP, Scotland, Clicktivism, Austerity, Iran...historical piece on 1st international...the person i spoke to said theres a redesign waiting in the wings too


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

Blagsta said:


> Wtf is wrong with people?


it is traditional for @ conferences to attract at least as many guilt-ridden liberals as anarchists.


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## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

The sex-worker/student thing - getting _really _annoying.


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## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> The sex-worker/student thing - getting _really _annoying.



how do you mean?

ive missed this, been completely out of a loop


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 21, 2014)

There was some also noise on twitter about people (possibly just one person, hard to tell) at the Afem conference demanding exclusive spaces/meetings for "women born as women" - i.e. "TERFS" being antagonistic towards transgendered people.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> The sex-worker/student thing - getting _really _annoying.


what, people going on the game to fund their studies? it was auld 20 years ago.


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## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> how do you mean?
> 
> ive missed this, been completely out of a loop


All the tweets above are from people who describe themselves as sex-workers/students (by choice they are keen to point out - not like _the other ones_). Seems to be pretty common now in this idiotic finger-pointing abusive niche.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> There was some also noise on twitter about people (possibly just one person, hard to tell) at the Afem conference demanding exclusive spaces/meetings for "women born as women" - i.e. "TERFS" being antagonistic towards transgendered people.


turfing people out


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## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> what, people going on the game to fund their studies? it was auld 20 years ago.


Ah but these are a different sort - far superior sex-workers because they've made a clear sex-positive choice that allows them to point fingers at everyone else.


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## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> All the tweets above are from people who describe themselves as sex-workers/students (by choice they are keen to point out - not like _the other ones_). Seems to be pretty common now in this idiotic finger-pointing abusive niche.



not being funny but how many normal sex-workers attended the conference? rather than these types?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Ah but these are a different sort - far superior sex-workers because they've made a clear sex-positive choice that allows them to point fingers at everyone else.


not superior more expert then


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## rioted (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> There was some also noise on twitter about people (possibly just one person, hard to tell) at the Afem conference demanding exclusive spaces/meetings for "women born as women" - i.e. "TERFS" being antagonistic towards transgendered people.


It's all very confusing, isn't it? I can't keep track of the difference between "women" and "people"


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## Brainaddict (Oct 21, 2014)

The 'safer spaces' policy at this afem conference seems to have been a bit of a car crash. You can see it here http://afem2014.tumblr.com/post/98976518359/safer-spaces-agreement-for-afem-2014
The googledocs link doesn't work for me but I'm hoping that's just my work blocking it and it hasn't disappeared.
It seems to be there mostly to encourage the politics of denunciation, or 'call-out' as it is called. This seems to be more important than discussion, enquiry, engagement etc, and appears to me to rely on victimhood as identity. I understand the desire to give power to victims, but this is done with a brutal lack of subtlety that leaves no room for argument.
On the topic of identity, some black members of this group seem to have decided that dreadlocks on white people are racist cultural appropriation (US idea first I think). Everyone else in this clique has decided that the black people must be right on this because they are black. Never mind that plenty of black people don't think that, that it relies on a static notion of identity and culture etc. It is no longer up for debate.
Some people were pre-banned from the conference, receiving messages informing them of this a few days beforehand. The guy I know on facebook who got one says he asked for a reason and got no response.

The transphobia was not the fault of the conference organisers however. They wrote the SS policy specifically to try to exclude transphobia but a bunch of the transphobic radical feminists decided to deliberately go along to cause trouble, as far as I can make out. So the policy didn't really work in that regard but it's hard to know what to do about what seems to be quite a malicious bunch of transphobic people who have adopted transphobia as part of their identity.


----------



## rioted (Oct 21, 2014)

Brainaddict said:


> transphobia


Another word that's thrown around with gay abandon.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

Brainaddict said:


> The 'safer spaces' policy at this afem conference seems to have been a bit of a car crash. You can see it here http://afem2014.tumblr.com/post/98976518359/safer-spaces-agreement-for-afem-2014
> The googledocs link doesn't work for me but I'm hoping that's just my work blocking it and it hasn't disappeared.
> It seems to be there mostly to encourage the politics of denunciation, or 'call-out' as it is called. This seems to be more important than discussion, enquiry, engagement etc, and appears to me to rely on victimhood as identity. I understand the desire to give power to victims, but this is done with a brutal lack of subtlety that leaves no room for argument.
> On the topic of identity, some black members of this group seem to have decided that dreadlocks on white people are racist cultural appropriation (US idea first I think). Everyone else in this clique has decided that the black people must be right on this because they are black. Never mind that plenty of black people don't think that, that it relies on a static notion of identity and culture etc. It is no longer up for debate.
> ...


this is what happens when you have an analysis based on intersectionality rather than class


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

rioted said:


> Another word that's thrown around with gay abandon.


very droll


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 21, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> this is what happens when you have an analysis based on intersectionality rather than class


 As I've said before, I think this stuff is an abuse of ideas of intersectionality more than anything. Your intersectionality could be very class-based if you wanted. Instead they've taken it in quite an identity-oriented direction I think.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

Brainaddict said:


> As I've said before, I think this stuff is an abuse of ideas of intersectionality more than anything. Your intersectionality could be very class-based if you wanted. Instead they've taken it in quite an identity-oriented direction I think.


Any use of class within intersectionalist discourse must be identity based - class as one identity. Of course there's degrees within that - but it's all identity based.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2014)

how many fash wear dreadlocks?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 21, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> how many fash wear dreadlocks?



Well Marcus Garvey said _"We were the first Fascists, when we had 100,000 disciplined men, and were training children, Mussolini was still an unknown. Mussolini copied our Fascism."_ and he is generally regarded as a prophet by rastas...

(massive troll)


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Well Marcus Garvey said _"We were the first Fascists, when we had 100,000 disciplined men, and were training children, Mussolini was still an unknown. Mussolini copied our Fascism."_ and he is generally regarded as a prophet by rastas...
> 
> (massive troll)



yea but its not something generally associated with racism is it ?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 21, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> yea but its not something generally associated with racism is it ?



It's certainly not associated with political white supremacy, no.

I think it goes without saying that middle class white kid getting locks and using patois can be very annoying though.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 21, 2014)

I think two incidents (dreads and terfs) being reported out of a whole day event probably suggests that it wasn't completely bonkers.


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It's certainly not associated with political white supremacy, no.
> 
> I think it goes without saying that middle class white kid getting locks and using patois can be very annoying though.



When I had dreads (in my early 20s), it was nothing to do with Rasta, I barely even listened to reggae back then, it was cos I identified with the squat/festival/traveller subculture (despite hardly squatting or travelling!). 

Equating white people with dreads with appropriating rasta culture is way off beam imo.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 21, 2014)

A friend of mine who is black, and a feminist, and a vegan (but not an anarchist) went to the thing on Sunday, against my advice (but hey she's a feminist why listen to me? amirite? am I rite? hey guys, guys!) and said they're all lunatics


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 21, 2014)

editor


----------



## rover07 (Oct 21, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> A friend of mine who is black, and a feminist, and a vegan (but not an anarchist) went to the thing on Sunday, against my advice (but hey she's a feminist why listen to me? amirite? am I rite? hey guys, guys!) and said they're all lunatics



Reading this thread that's what i thought too. It keeps them busy though and out of harms way.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 21, 2014)

Blagsta said:


> When I had dreads (in my early 20s), it was nothing to do with Rasta, I barely even listened to reggae back then, it was cos I identified with the squat/festival/traveller subculture (despite hardly squatting or travelling!).
> 
> Equating white people with dreads with appropriating rasta culture is way off beam imo.



I think you're right but dreads in the squat/traveller scene were still a signifier for "outlaw" status, no? You can see why some people might think that was an appropriation. And certainly _some_ white people have got dreadlocks and taken up rasta beliefs, with varying levels of sincerity and understanding.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I think two incidents (dreads and terfs) being reported out of a whole day event probably suggests that it wasn't completely bonkers.


it shouldn't have been bonkers at all.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 21, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> it shouldn't have been bonkers at all.



It's good that there are still some starry eyed utopians in the anarchist scene.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It's good that there are still some starry eyed utopians in the anarchist scene.


if it had been an anarchist conference no nonsense need have occurred. it was the irruption of guilt-ridden liberals which undermined the valiant efforts of the organizers.


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I think you're right but dreads in the squat/traveller scene were still a signifier for "outlaw" status, no? You can see why some people might think that was an appropriation. And certainly _some_ white people have got dreadlocks and taken up rasta beliefs, with varying levels of sincerity and understanding.


Oh yeah, it was a signifier of rejection of "mainstream" society, but (for me at least), nothing to do with Rastafarianism.


----------



## JHE (Oct 21, 2014)

> When I had dreads (in my early 20s), it was nothing to do with Rasta, I barely even listened to reggae back then, it was cos I identified with the squat/festival/traveller subculture (despite hardly squatting or travelling!).
> 
> Equating white people with dreads with appropriating rasta culture is way off beam imo.



You copied "squat/festival/traveller subculture" and where do you think the people of that subculture got the idea from?  They copied Rastafarians.

There's nothing wrong with "appropriating" (copying would be a simpler and more accurate term), but denying the origin of the kulchral wotsit you've appropriated seems a bit dishonest and ungrateful.  

I expect neo-Nazi nutjobs jumping around to ska say their preferred genre has nothing to do with black musicians.  If they do, though, they are at best kidding themselves.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 21, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> if it had been an anarchist conference no nonsense need have occurred. it was the irruption of guilt-ridden liberals which undermined the valiant efforts of the organizers.



What's good is that no liberal loons have ever self-identified as anarchist or come to the bookfair previously.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

Surely ‘dreadlocks’ is but one of many iterations, globally and across history, of a particular way of wearing hair? Seems odd only to associate it with a tiny religious sect originating in one small part of the world which has been in existence for a very short period of time (when judged against the entirety of human existence).


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> What's good is that no liberal loons have ever self-identified as anarchist or come to the bookfair previously.


It's good that there are still some starry eyed utopians in the anarchist scene


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Surely ‘dreadlocks’ is but one of many iterations, globally and across history, of a particular way of wearing hair? Seems odd only to associate it with a tiny religious sect in one small part of the world which has been in existence for a very short period of time (when judged against the entirety of human existence).



Sure. And rastas would be the first to say that they got it from the old testament iirc.

But "dread" is an obvious rasta signifier, no?


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2014)

JHE said:


> You copied "squat/festival/traveller subculture" and where do you think the people of that subculture got the idea from?  They copied Rastafarians.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with "appropriating" (copying would be a simpler and more accurate term), but denying the origin of the kulchral wotsit you've appropriated seems a bit dishonest and ungrateful.
> 
> I expect neo-Nazi nutjobs jumping around to ska say their preferred genre has nothing to do with black musicians.  If they do, though, they are at best kidding themselves.



Are you claiming that Rastafarians have some sort of claim on having invented matted hair worn in locks?


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2014)

JHE said:


> You copied "squat/festival/traveller subculture" and where do you think the people of that subculture got the idea from?  They copied Rastafarians.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with "appropriating" (copying would be a simpler and more accurate term), but denying the origin of the kulchral wotsit you've appropriated seems a bit dishonest and ungrateful.
> 
> I expect neo-Nazi nutjobs jumping around to ska say their preferred genre has nothing to do with black musicians.  If they do, though, they are at best kidding themselves.



Oh, and don't use some spurious comparison with neo Nazi skinheads, especially given your own views on race.


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Sure. And rastas would be the first to say that they got it from the old testament iirc.
> 
> But "dread" is an obvious rasta signifier, no?



Dread is a rasta signifier, but the term "dreadlocks" has become the accepted cultural descriptor of that hairstyle and a good argument could be made for the term having been (at least in certain contexts) shorn of its original cultural origination.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> But "dread" is an obvious rasta signifier, no?



It's like a three-part challenge...

*1. ARE YOU PALE-SKINNED Y/N? *

_If Y, pass to next stage_

*2. DO YOU WEAR MATTED HAIR Y/N?*

_If Y, pass to next stage_

*3. DO YOU CALL YOUR MATTED HAIR ‘DREADLOCKS’, ‘DREADS’ OR ‘LOCKS’ Y/N?*

** * * CULTURAL APPROPRIATION KLAXON * * **

Where do the gap year travellers who insist on calling their barnets ‘jata’ fit into all this? Or members of MOVE, who were not rastas?

ETA:

I don't really care how anyone wears their hair, or what they call it, really. I'm just a bit bemused that out of all the definitely, tangibly really shit things that black people have to deal with more than white people in the UK, this was apparently the lightning rod issue, especially when (from what I can make out) the objection has not even originated from those from whom the hairstyle and/or the name of the hairstyle has supposedly been appropriated.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> I don't really care how anyone wears their hair, or what they call it, really. I'm just a bit bemused that out of all the definitely, tangibly really shit things that black people have to deal with more than white people in the UK, this was apparently the lightning rod issue, especially when (from what I can make out) the objection has not even originated from those from whom the hairstyle and/or the name of the hairstyle has supposedly been appropriated.



Basically this.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

Of course the big question is whether Bootfair 2014 will become known as Year of #Dreadgate or Year of #Lockgate.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Oct 21, 2014)

IME black activists couldn't give a fuck, it's holier-than-thou white activists pointing fingers at each other about who is the best most activisty activist.

possibly of course, someone may have been trying to join in the people-of-colour only discussions... "i've got dreadlocks because i identify as black, if you dont let me in that's unfair"


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 21, 2014)

#cult-appgate


----------



## belboid (Oct 21, 2014)

chilango said:


> I thought the CWO was just one bloke? Should've picked up an Aurora really. But didn't get round to it.
> 
> I also don't quite get the logic of CWO inside, ICC outside? No skin off my nose really though.


Three of the fuckers up here.  Actually two of them are quite alright.  The third one I had to be stopped from bottling last night.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 21, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> IME black activists couldn't give a fuck, it's holier-than-thou white activists pointing fingers at each other about who is the best most activisty activist.


Your assumption that black activists can't also be complete numpties is racist 

But really, I think there is a clique of black activists who do think this - this leaflet came up on twitter, posted approvingly: http://www.makezine.enoughenough.org/mohawksdreads.htm

Now if you'd said those black activists who do buy into it are middle class students who are actually in an okay position in life, I'd suspect that might be true, though I couldn't confirm it, not having met all of them.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

belboid said:


> Three of the fuckers up here.  Actually two of them are quite alright.  The third one I had to be stopped from bottling last night.


Is 'jock' still going strong?


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 21, 2014)

I went for the first time in years. Picked up some books I'd been after but didn't stick around for very long.

Who are the Critisticuffs lot?


----------



## belboid (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Is 'jock' still going strong?


Naah, there's Kevin (okay but dull), Des (throws a good party when he's not ill) and Steve (needs to die)


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

gawkrodger said:


> I went for the first time in years. Picked up some books I'd been after but didn't stick around for very long.
> 
> Who are the Critisticuffs lot?


People who say _critique _a lot from what i can tell. That sort.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

belboid said:


> Naah, there's Kevin (okay but dull), Des (throws a good party when he's not ill) and Steve (needs to die)


You appear to be in an early 1990s ITV sitcom.


----------



## belboid (Oct 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> You appear to be in an early 1990s ITV sitcom.


tosh and nonsense.  you mean early 70's


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Of course the big question is whether Bootfair 2014 will become known as Year of #Dreadgate or Year of #Lockgate.


it's not like the auld days. no one who was there will ever forget the battle of holloway road in '05.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

belboid said:


> tosh and nonsense.  you mean early 70's


it's a remake


----------



## gamerunknown (Oct 21, 2014)

gawkrodger said:


> Who are the Critisticuffs lot?



An English version of "Gruppen gegen Kapital und Nation", formerly "Junge Linke".


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Is 'jock' still going strong?



yeh he is, met him in the meeting I went to a few months ago


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> yeh he is, met him in the meeting I went to a few months ago


Good lad him.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2014)

I think so too - very sound


----------



## treelover (Oct 21, 2014)

belboid said:


> tosh and nonsense.  you mean early 70's



Kevin fits right in there


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 21, 2014)

Why are non anarchists being provided space for closed meetings at the book fair? Isn't there a church hall somewhere they can all fuck off to?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Why are non anarchists being provided space for closed meetings at the book fair? Isn't there a church hall somewhere they can all fuck off to?


Wasn't the bookfair lad - calm down.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Why are non anarchists being provided space for closed meetings at the book fair? Isn't there a church hall somewhere they can all fuck off to?


this may be the bookfair thread but we're no longer discussing saturday - we're discussing a wholly separate event held on sunday.


----------



## chilango (Oct 21, 2014)

Tell you what I was a little wary given the tales of intersectionalism and other nonsense causing spats at the Bookfair recently but the meeting I attended was engaged with very amicably, respectfully and positively by its attendees afaics. Everyone listening and contributing without hassle or the end for flappy hands or anything. Was great.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Wasn't the bookfair lad - calm down.



Oh.


----------



## IC3D (Oct 21, 2014)

Wasn't aware of any black people at the fair to be offended about dreadlocks. (I know ba)

RIP Steve Ash. He was due to attend a debate on Saturday and I was looking forward to his shtick. It was shit Steve they were banging on about yoonions for a hour wish you could of made it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2014)

chilango said:


> Tell you what I was a little wary given the tales of intersectionalism and other nonsense causing spats at the Bookfair recently but the meeting I attended was engaged with very amicably, respectfully and positively by its attendees afaics. Everyone listening and contributing without hassle or the end for flappy hands or anything. Was great.


normal service will be resumed next year


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> it's not like the auld days. no one who was there will ever forget the battle of holloway road in '05.


 I still have flashbacks.  Of course it was all shitty soundsystems back then, if you wanted to annoy the staff in a pub nowadays you'd just use your phone.


----------



## imposs1904 (Oct 21, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I think his wife and daughter are members as well





belboid said:


> Naah, there's Kevin (okay but dull), Des (throws a good party when he's not ill) and Steve (needs to die)



i thought jock was in the north east?

eta: and I thought it was his son, rather than a daughter, who was a member.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

As any fule kno the real deal was the Battle Of The Apple Tree in '99.


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

A friend of mine threw the 'cultural appropriation' thing at me the other day (in jest) so it's a bit of a raw nerve tbf  I just find it really really odd that these people would seek to accuse me of being racist/abusing my white privilege/whatever just because I've had dreadlocks for the last 11 years. I have them for no other reason than that I like them and it's better than the shit, unmanageable hair I'd have otherwise. Fuck all to do with a religion I'm uninterested in or cultures I know little about. It's weird.

But then again, I'm uninterested in identity politics which doesn't prioritise class over anything else.


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> The sex-worker/student thing - getting _really _annoying.


Yeah I've noticed that. Agreed.


----------



## imposs1904 (Oct 21, 2014)

Isn't the main objection to white people having dreadlocks is that they never look good? It's on a par with having a ginger afro.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

imposs1904 said:


> Isn't the main objection to white people having dreadlocks is that they never look good? It's on a par with having a ginger afro.


He's slagging the kelly boy now.


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

imposs1904 said:


> Isn't the main objection to white people having dreadlocks is that they never look good? It's on a par with having a ginger afro.


I have heard people say that


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 21, 2014)

Are mohican hair cuts not cultural appropriation too?


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

It's just a hairdo. That's all


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 21, 2014)

I wonder what music these people listen to and what cultural traditions they tread clumsily on in the process.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 21, 2014)

wagner


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I wonder what music these people listen to and what cultural traditions they tread clumsily on in the process.


That's covered in one of the twitter exchanges I posted. Language/music/body art etc is all fine, it's only the hair that's important


----------



## el-ahrairah (Oct 21, 2014)

african drums, fine.  tibetan singing bowls, ace.  dreadlocks WORSE THAN HITLER SIT DOWN CUNTS


----------



## 8115 (Oct 21, 2014)

eta - deleted, just being bitchy.


----------



## imposs1904 (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> He's slagging the kelly boy now.



I was thinking more this bloke:


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

He's a  very nice bloke as it goes. And you've reminded me i need to do some stuff for our dave. FWIW the oroginal was clearly a public ID with outsider later not so much.


----------



## imposs1904 (Oct 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> He's a  very nice bloke as it goes. And you've reminded me i need to do some stuff for our dave. FWIW the oroginal was clearly a public ID with outsider later not so much.



I just remember the hair distracting me when I used to watch him on one of those Open University programmes that would pop up on a Sunday between Dennis Pennis provocations and an Audie Murphy movie on BBC2. I keep meaning to read his The Ball is Round but it's a bastard doorstep of a book, so I'll just have to fall back on my current reading of Matthew Le Tissier's ghosted autobiography. (Very enjoyable, btw.)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> WORSE THAN HITLER SIT DOWN CUNTS



Bit harsh but I see where you're coming from


----------



## el-ahrairah (Oct 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Bit harsh but I see where you're coming from
> 
> View attachment 62755



you've gone too far this time, cinzano


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> african drums, fine.  tibetan singing bowls, ace.  dreadlocks WORSE THAN HITLER SIT DOWN CUNTS


Anyway, white people had dreadlocks hundreds of years ago. Pirates of the Caribbean told me so


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> you've gone too far this time, cinzano


Talking of white chaps with culturally appropriated tonsorial arrangements, I would imagine you were not unfond of these gentlemen:


----------



## rekil (Oct 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Bit harsh but I see where you're coming from


Watford? As in - Watforrrrd, tell me tell me, Watford.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 21, 2014)

JTG said:


> That's covered in one of the twitter exchanges I posted. Language/music/body art etc is all fine, it's only the hair that's important



Presumably it was white people that decided this is what black people are offended by? Nothing racist about that, then!


----------



## el-ahrairah (Oct 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Talking of white chaps with culturally appropriated tonsorial arrangements, I would imagine you were not unfond of these gentlemen:



apart from their faces and their music, there's not really much to get upset about with ned's atomic dustbin.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Presumably it was white people that decided this is what black people are offended by? Nothing racist about that, then!


Remember what happened last time you presumed something on this thread


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Presumably it was white people that decided this is what black people are offended by? Nothing racist about that, then!


I dunno tbh, genuinely confused about the whole thing


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> apart from their faces and their music, there's not really much to get upset about with ned's atomic dustbin.


They look like the world's cuddliest black metal band


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> They look like the world's cuddliest black metal band


Furzum


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

JTG said:


> Furzum


Gesundheit


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

Danke


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

JTG said:


> Danke


Speaking of which, no white-boys-with-dreads here - only clean-cut and fresh-faced caucasians with culturally-appropriate coiffures:


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

I hate the Detroit Redwings


----------



## el-ahrairah (Oct 21, 2014)

JTG said:


> Furzum



*APPLAUSE*


----------



## el-ahrairah (Oct 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> They look like the world's cuddliest black metal band



that one at the front looks a bit like the alien from Alien Resurrection.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 21, 2014)

Has anyone said that celts had dreads yet?


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> *APPLAUSE*


*starts thread to draw attention to witticism*


----------



## JTG (Oct 21, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Has anyone said that celts had dreads yet?


I know some Celts with dreads. Very culturally appropriate.

Hey, I have Celtic ancestry! I'm safe!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Has anyone said that celts had dreads yet?


No one's pict over that particular carcass yet


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Has anyone said that celts had dreads yet?


Hence the Birmingham 6


----------



## krink (Oct 22, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> No one's pict over that particular carcass yet



As for the puns, I see we are going for the ancient people Angle


----------



## el-ahrairah (Oct 22, 2014)

something something trinovantes


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 22, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> something something trinovantes


I Cantiaci a fuck.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2014)

iceni what you did there


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 22, 2014)

Brigantes it on


----------



## belboid (Oct 22, 2014)

I'll raise a beaker to that


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 22, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Sure. And rastas would be the first to say that they got it from the old testament iirc.
> 
> But "dread" is an obvious rasta signifier, no?


Would this be an appropriate point at which to post this:



And to link to this?


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 22, 2014)

Shocking cultural appropriation of this?



Or a banging tune which is quite clearly part of a wider anti-racist / subversive counter culture?


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## past caring (Oct 23, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Would this be an appropriate point at which to post this:
> 
> 
> 
> And to link to this?




It's like the Gang of Four decided to make Solid Gold forever.

And ever.


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## krink (Oct 23, 2014)

belboid said:


> I'll raise a beaker to that



I'll join you when I'm finished getting dressed, just need to put my Saxon shoes on.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 23, 2014)

The Jutes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing


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## redsquirrel (Oct 23, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Would this be an appropriate point at which to post this:
> 
> 
> 
> And to link to this?



Always a good time to post WDE.


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## rekil (Oct 23, 2014)

That Northern Soul fillum needs trigger warnings for cultural appropriation, miscegenation and white people dancing.


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## kenny g (Oct 23, 2014)

I shave my head, partly as it feels more authentic as a white male than many other styles _BUT _I do wonder whether I am appropriating a w/c  style from a position of m/c privilege.


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## Celyn (Oct 24, 2014)

kenny g said:


> I shave my head, partly as it feels more authentic as a white male than many other styles _BUT _I do wonder whether I am appropriating a w/c  style from a position of m/c privilege.



You are depriving the barber-shop man of his rightful work.


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## revol68 (Oct 25, 2014)

So after having assumed it was just the fringes of anarchism buying into this Maoist Madness I've been sent this from the Glasgow Anarchist Federation wordpress.

"Cultural appropriation/racism
Lots of white people turned up using fashion displays from cultures that had been othered by white imperialism with no respect for the cultures they were came from and then got defensive when this was fed back in a negative light by the POC strand. Again, while the safer space policy had words on this subject we didn’t have a consistent process on what we were actually doing about it."

Have they simply let the group idiot have the password to the group word press or has the AF jumped the shark?


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## butchersapron (Oct 25, 2014)

revol68 said:


> So after having assumed it was just the fringes of anarchism buying into this Maoist Madness I've been sent this from the Glasgow Anarchist Federation wordpress.
> 
> "Cultural appropriation/racism
> Lots of white people turned up using fashion displays from cultures that had been othered by white imperialism with no respect for the cultures they were came from and then got defensive when this was fed back in a negative light by the POC strand. Again, while the safer space policy had words on this subject we didn’t have a consistent process on what we were actually doing about it."
> ...


I suspect it's the same private college ivy league american member as behind other outrages.


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## revol68 (Oct 25, 2014)

Do these idiots have any self awareness? Also what are the other outrages?


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## butchersapron (Oct 25, 2014)

revol68 said:


> Do these idiots have any self awareness? Also what are the other outrages?


Attempts to insert _culturally inappropriate _bullshit into the way anarchist groups operate here - see the AF-scotland discussion document that got put around as Af policy a while back. We even had a thread on here.


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## JTG (Oct 25, 2014)

revol68 said:


> So after having assumed it was just the fringes of anarchism buying into this Maoist Madness I've been sent this from the Glasgow Anarchist Federation wordpress.
> 
> "Cultural appropriation/racism
> Lots of white people turned up using fashion displays from cultures that had been othered by white imperialism with no respect for the cultures they were came from and then got defensive when this was fed back in a negative light by the POC strand. Again, while the safer space policy had words on this subject we didn’t have a consistent process on what we were actually doing about it."
> ...


Are they capable of using clear English?


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## JTG (Oct 25, 2014)

I just attempted to google for some intelligent discussion of the whole dreads thing and found a frightening amount of ignorance and knee jerk BS instead. I shall probably just continue to believe that it doesn't fucking matter and there are far better indicators of someone's worth than their fucking hair.


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## DrRingDing (Oct 25, 2014)

JTG said:


> I just attempted to google for some intelligent discussion of the whole dreads thing and found a frightening amount of ignorance and knee jerk BS instead. I shall probably just continue to believe that it doesn't fucking matter and there are far better indicators of someone's worth than their fucking hair.



The harm that white people having dreads, does, I find hard to imagine, is as bad as humiliating and abusing someone infront of hundreds of people. 

I wouldn't get a complex.


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## hot air baboon (Oct 25, 2014)

JTG said:


> ....there are far better indicators of someone's worth than their fucking hair....




.....except when we're talking about Donald Trump....








.....you can beautify your home with the New Cultural Appropriation Poster from the home page of this site :



frogwoman said:


> http://awakeningthehorse.wordpress.com/about-2/
> 
> Someone I know through anti cuts stuff just posted this.
> 
> ...


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## JTG (Oct 26, 2014)

DrRingDing said:


> The harm that white people having dreads, does, I find hard to imagine, is as bad as humiliating and abusing someone infront of hundreds of people.
> 
> I wouldn't get a complex.


I've tried again this morning and still don't understand wtf you were trying to say


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## 8115 (Oct 26, 2014)

About Awakening the Horse people, that's a Canadian site. Talking about people of European heritage over there makes a lot of sense.  There are serios issues of ownership, not just cultural there due to the poor status of First Nations (or generally indigenous? I am not sure) people.

I think some of the resurgence of cultural appropriation you are talking about might be due to people in USA and Canada beginning to feel that using things from First Nations and other indigenous peoples cultures for fashion, especially when these things were very symbolic ie for ceremonies or I think for fighting in the past, is not acceptable.


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## kenny g (Oct 26, 2014)

8115 said:


> About Awakening the Horse people, that's a Canadian site. Talking about people of European heritage over there makes a lot of sense.  There are serios issues of ownership, not just cultural there due to the poor status of First Nations (or generally indigenous? I am not sure) people.
> 
> I think some of the resurgence of cultural appropriation you are talking about might be due to people in USA and Canada beginning to feel that using things from First Nations and other indigenous peoples cultures for fashion, especially when these things were very symbolic ie for ceremonies or I think for fighting in the past, is not acceptable.



Too true. About as edifying as Madonna going in for all that Kabalah poop.


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## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2014)

8115 said:


> About Awakening the Horse people, that's a Canadian site. Talking about people of European heritage over there makes a lot of sense.  There are serios issues of ownership, not just cultural there due to the poor status of First Nations (or generally indigenous? I am not sure) people.
> 
> I think some of the resurgence of cultural appropriation you are talking about might be due to people in USA and Canada beginning to feel that using things from First Nations and other indigenous peoples cultures for fashion, especially when these things were very symbolic ie for ceremonies or I think for fighting in the past, is not acceptable.


That site is racist drivel. You pretty clearly haven't read a thing on it or understood the postions the idiot puts across.


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## kenny g (Oct 26, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That site is racist drivel. You pretty clearly haven't read a thing on it or understood the postions the idiot puts across.



I can't see how the site's logic would cope with people from mixed heritage. And as an English / Scot am not sure whether they are suggesting C of E membership, Scots Presbyterian, Paganism or kilt wearing as my most authentic approach.


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## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2014)

my flatmate brought me Ian Bone's autobiography and some weird pamphlet that was a rather arrid hardcore anarchist economics tract, interspersed with photographs of kittens on pianos.


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## ska invita (Oct 26, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> my flatmate brought me Ian Bone's autobiography and some weird pamphlet that was a rather arrid hardcore anarchist economics tract, interspersed with photographs of kittens on pianos.


Kittens - journal of the wine and cheese appreciation society of greater london - can be hard reads i find. i like the pictures


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## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Kittens - journal of the wine and cheese appreciation society of greater london - can be hard reads i find. i like the pictures


Aye. That's the one. What's going on there then? Are they just being merry pranksters?


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## ska invita (Oct 26, 2014)

a nice way to brighten up hard reading...works quite well. there are no gags in the text though


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## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2014)

What's with the wine and cheese thing?


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## ska invita (Oct 26, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> What's with the wine and cheese thing?


japes
this is them i think
http://antinational.org/en/about-us


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## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> my flatmate brought me Ian Bone's autobiography and some weird pamphlet that was a rather arrid hardcore anarchist economics tract, interspersed with photographs of kittens on pianos.


they're dull as ditchwater. and as wholesome.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> What's with the wine and cheese thing?


they're twats


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## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2014)

I don't think I'll get round to reading any of it. I shall just admire the kittens.


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## ska invita (Oct 26, 2014)

There was an earlier one with a piece on Bitcoin and wikileaks which i read with interest - and immediately forgot what i read...but the kittens remain. bash the rich is a fun read though, no doubt


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## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2014)

My copy was free. Anarchists are rubbish at selling books.


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## ska invita (Oct 26, 2014)

im not sure how anarchist they are. critical marxists i think maybe describes it. god knows


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## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> My copy was free. Anarchists are rubbish at selling books.


you missed your chance to buy a load of them and indoctrinate the youth.


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## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2014)

Damn, though I do plan on leaving this at work:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rule-Is-To-Break-A/dp/1933149256


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## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Damn, though I do plan on leaving this at work:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rule-Is-To-Break-A/dp/1933149256


leave one of these lying about too www.libcom.org/files/TACM.pdf. Brainaddict thinks this needs a health warning but i think anyone downloading stuff from libcom knows it's nsfw


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## Brainaddict (Oct 26, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> leave one of these lying about too www.libcom.org/files/TACM.pdf


Think that needs a NSFW warning Pickmans (it explains how to engage in what some might describe as terrorism). Also I imagine GCHQ may well monitor anyone who downloads it, but I'm sure we're already on the files anyway.

Edit: it also needs a 'not safe to be a muslim and download this' warning. Seriously, I think it shouldn't be posted without a description - not really a funny joke these days.


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## DrRingDing (Oct 26, 2014)

JTG said:


> I've tried again this morning and still don't understand wtf you were trying to say



Don't fret....in short.

This dodgy, competitive, point scoring and ultimately bourgeois one-upmanship of the call-out culture causes more harm, division and upset than a white person wearing dreads.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Brainaddict said:


> Think that needs a NSFW warning Pickmans (it explains how to engage in what some might describe as terrorism). Also I imagine GCHQ may well monitor anyone who downloads it, but I'm sure we're alread[...].


on a thread about anarchists in the context of leaving anarchist material about i don't think it needs a health earning except for the terminally daft


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## Buckaroo (Oct 26, 2014)

Brainaddict said:


> Think that needs a NSFW warning Pickmans (it explains how to engage in what some might describe as terrorism). Also I imagine GCHQ may well monitor anyone who downloads it, but I'm sure we're already on the files anyway.
> 
> Edit: it also needs a 'not safe to be a muslim and download this' warning. Seriously, I think it shouldn't be posted without a description - not really a funny joke these days.



Nah bollocks, it's all out there and if not here then somewhere else.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> Nah bollocks, it's all out there and if not here then somewhere else.


brainaddict should definitely not explore the internet as tacm fairly mild compared to some things freely available on american govt or educational websites.


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## Buckaroo (Oct 26, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> brainaddict should definitely not explore the internet as tacm fairly mild compared to some things freely available on american govt or educational websites.



It's always the quiet ones, that's how they think I think they think I think they think.


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## IC3D (Oct 26, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Damn, though I do plan on leaving this at work:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rule-Is-To-Break-A/dp/1933149256


lol, I was waiting to post this, I got that for my kid and this is what happened.
 
I'm still basking in the glory of my parenting.


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## Wilf (Oct 27, 2014)

IC3D said:


> lol, I was waiting to post this, I got that for my kid and this is what happened.
> View attachment 62984
> I'm still basking in the glory of my parenting.


'Right, you can do exactly what you want.......WHAT THE _FUCK_ ARE YOU DOING!'


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## TopCat (Oct 28, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> What are the plans of other left anarchists?


Shout loudly, throw stuff from the back, fight fascists, cops, smash stuff up, get pissed, listen to terrible music, publish all sorts, inspire, depress, live a little.


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