# Ogmore Vale/Nantymoel: devastated old coal towns



## editor (Dec 30, 2007)

We visited Ogmore Vale, mid Glamorgan, over Christmas and I was shocked at what a run-down dump the place was. It looks like a dreadful place to live.

*shakes fist at evil Thatcher


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> We visited Ogmore Vale, mid Glamorgan, over Christmas and I was shocked at what a run-down dump the place was. It looks like a dreadful place to live.
> 
> *shakes fist at evil Thatcher



Why is it her fault specifically?


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## editor (Dec 30, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Why is it her fault specifically?


Because she and her government, specifically, closed down the mine on which the town's economy almost solely relied.


> From 1865 to 1984, when the last colliery (Wyndham/Western Mine) closed, the coal industry provided employment for the communities of the valley and much wealth was produced for the nation. Sadly the cost in terms of human sacrifice and suffering was high
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogmore_Vale


Oh, and nearby Nantymoel is equally blighted. It must be awful to have to live there.


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## Gromit (Dec 30, 2007)

Basically everything north of the M4 above Bridgend is pretty fucked up (and the town centre itself but they've had some money to do something about that bit).

I really shouldn't say any more on this topic though.


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## editor (Dec 30, 2007)

I just found it really sad that the town had been so royally shafted. The miners must have handsomely contributed to Britain's wealth, so where's their share, their future and their prospects?


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## nightowl (Dec 30, 2007)

i'm not too up on the history of mining in south wales but is it true that a lot of the wealth just ended up in cardiff?


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## editor (Dec 30, 2007)

Have you ever seen a civic monument as tragic as Nantymoel's 1955 clock tower?

Naturally, it's broken.


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## Gromit (Dec 30, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> I just found it really sad that the town had been so royally shafted. The miners must have handsomely contributed to Britain's wealth, so where's their share, their future and their prospects?


 
The English Lords and landlords took it back to England with them when the gravytrain ended but don't get me started please.


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## editor (Dec 30, 2007)

nightowl said:
			
		

> i'm not too up on the history of mining in south wales but is it true that a lot of the wealth just ended up in cardiff?


Where in Cardiff, specifically?


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## Gromit (Dec 30, 2007)

nightowl said:
			
		

> i'm not too up on the history of mining in south wales but is it true that a lot of the wealth just ended up in cardiff?


 
Coal wealth built the docks and created slums such as Tiger bay and Butetown but like most wealth most of it ends up in the pockets of 1% of the population and the rest get the dregs.

Few of that 1% were welshmen. In fact the only welshman I can think of who got famously rich off coal was David Davies of Llandinam, architect of the docks.


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## editor (Dec 30, 2007)

I can't imagine what it must have been like to work in those days.





> By the turn of the century, new forces began to appear in the coalfields. Many of the coal owners united into large companies which came to be known as the 'combines'. The Cambrian Combine, owned by Lord Rhondda, employed almost 7,000 men in its collieries.
> 
> Despite being amongst the most prolific in the country, the Rhondda pits proved to be extremely difficult to mine. The deep seams which provided the highly prized steam coals were both gaseous and fiery, and consequently work was hard and always fraught with danger. All too often explosions, roof falls and other everyday accidents resulted in crippling injuries or death. Industrial diseases like pneumoconiosis caused near suffocation and almost inevitably proved fatal. A further hazard was from nystagmus, an eye disorder contracted through working in low light levels. This condition caused not only blindness but could, when untreated, cause insanity.
> 
> ...


(*I've changed the title of the thread, btw)


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## nightowl (Dec 30, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Where in Cardiff, specifically?



dunno. it always seemed to be a fairly common gripe i heard from people, especially older people, up the valleys about the valleys producing the wealth and it all ending up in cardiff. not sure whether it was based on any fact or just a natural suspicion of the big city


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## Gromit (Dec 30, 2007)

nightowl said:
			
		

> dunno. it always seemed to be a fairly common gripe i heard from people, especially older people, up the valleys about the valleys producing the wealth and it all ending up in cardiff. not sure whether it was based on any fact or just a natural suspicion of the big city


 
Think of it this way. 
Cardiff did the docks work for all the coal towns.

So its the size of all those towns grouped together in one place (population wise).
It didn't get any more money than all those towns put together. It got its equal share.

It managed to survive the demise of the coal industry better only because of its transport infrasture position. Not cause it had more money.


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## 1927 (Dec 30, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> I just found it really sad that the town had been so royally shafted. The miners must have handsomely contributed to Britain's wealth, so where's their share, their future and their prospects?



I think they spent their share on XR4is.  I remember working up in the Gwent mining towns in the late 80s and you never saw so many expensive cars on the drives. Miners had spunked their redundancy on cars rather than investing for their futures!


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## lewislewis (Dec 31, 2007)

What is the future for the valleys? There needs to be jobs. At the moment all that's available is retail and typical part-time stuff, nothing stable (although i'm not disrespecting anyone in retail, that can be fulfilling). 

Where are the proper policies from the UK government to redress what they did in the past?

In any other part of the world things are put in place to cover the damage when you take away the vital industry. How could Thatcher so cruelly shut down an entire industry without setting up any alternative employment?
The ex-coalfield areas of England must be in a similar state, although i've never been there.

English governments have never cared about anyone outside the South-East.


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## editor (Dec 31, 2007)

A few pics. It ain't pretty.





















http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/ogmore-vale-nantymoel.html

Good feature here: http://www.communityarchives.org.uk/page_id__309_path__0p6p11p.aspx


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## Grandma Death (Dec 31, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Because she and her government, specifically, closed down the mine on which the town's economy almost solely relied.




Whilst I agree with this post-we shouldn't spend too much time dwelling on an industry that was not only dangerous but was also incredibly bad for the environment.


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## zog (Dec 31, 2007)

I quite like Ogmore Vale and it's one of the places I considered retiring to. Everyone I know up there is well chilled if not totally barking and the views are grand.


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## davesgcr (Dec 31, 2007)

Great pictures .......

Some of those inter valley roads were built in the 1930's as part of an unemployment relief package.

Very sad state of some of those communities .....attempts at diversifying in the 1960s with light industry didnt come to much


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## nightowl (Dec 31, 2007)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> What is the future for the valleys? There needs to be jobs. At the moment all that's available is retail and typical part-time stuff, nothing stable (although i'm not disrespecting anyone in retail, that can be fulfilling).



i know a few people who have moved up the valleys because they can't afford accommodation in cardiff. is this a significant trend at the moment? could high costs in cardiff make people (and maybe some businesses?) look for alternatives and maybe breath new life into other areas?


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## Gromit (Dec 31, 2007)

zog said:
			
		

> I quite like Ogmore Vale and it's one of the places I considered retiring to. Everyone I know up there is well chilled if not totally barking and the views are grand.


 
Are you confusing Ogmore Vale with Ogmore-by-sea? The two are very different.


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## editor (Dec 31, 2007)

Marius said:
			
		

> Are you confusing Ogmore Vale with Ogmore-by-sea? The two are very different.


I foolishly went swimming in Ogmore by sea a few years back.

I evacuated promptly when I saw floating brown blobs all around and was rewarded with an unpleasant neck rash.

I can't think why anyone would want to retire to Ogmore Vale. There's barely anything there at all.


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## kyser_soze (Dec 31, 2007)

Can anyone tell me what exactly would have happened to these villages when the coal ran out anyway? I realise that Thatch hastened and arguably made the process more brutal than it needed to be, but much like the US rust belt and huge chunks of the mid-west, there are massive, massive problems with basing an entire community on a primary resource and extraction industries - hell, it's dangersous to base a community on a single economic resource full stop; it's economic specialisation of the same ilk as a butterfly that can survive on the pollen of one specific plant that grows on a single acre of land, remove that and it's entire ecosystem falls to bits.


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## Gromit (Dec 31, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> I foolishly went swimming in Ogmore by sea a few years back.
> 
> I evacuated promptly when I saw floating brown blobs all around and was rewarded with an unpleasant neck rash.
> 
> I can't think why anyone would want to retire to Ogmore Vale. There's barely anything there at all.


 
Sotherndown is cleaner. but not sandy. 
Better surf too, on the rare occasions there is surf.


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## editor (Dec 31, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> Can anyone tell me what exactly would have happened to these villages when the coal ran out anyway?


As far as I know, there was still a lot of coal in them thar hills, but Thatch deemed them "uneconomic," preferring to import cheapo stuff and throw the  miners (and their commuities and towns) on the scrapheap.

Even if the coal was running out, there can be no excuse for the brutality of her actions. 'Britain' may have been saving a few bob on coal, but at what human price?

Have you ever visited the Big Pit in Blaenavon? It's humbling stuff.


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## zog (Dec 31, 2007)

Marius said:
			
		

> Are you confusing Ogmore Vale with Ogmore-by-sea? The two are very different.




I prefer Ogmore Vale.  the one by the sea is just a bit too sea-sidey for me. Whilst I prefer the hills - and I'm more likely to be able to afford a house up that way.

The clubs we drink in up that way make the Glamorgan staff club look posh.


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## kyser_soze (Dec 31, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> As far as I know, there was still a lot of coal in them thar hills, but Thatch deemed them "uneconomic," preferring to import cheapo stuff and throw the  miners (and their commuities and towns) on the scrapheap.
> 
> Even if the coal was running out, there can be no excuse for the brutality of her actions. 'Britain' may have been saving a few bob on coal, but at what human price?
> 
> Have you ever visited the Big Pit in Blaenavon? It's humbling stuff.



That wasn't my question. At some point the coal would have run out; what would have happened then?

I saw enough broken communities driving through the US, communities that fell apart when the interstate highways network was built and/or technology changed farming methods (for example, towns where the grain elevators have been dismantled/moved) to know what such communities are like, and it is humbling.

But your comment doesn't address the basic issue of what happens to single-industry communities once that single industry goes.


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## lewislewis (Dec 31, 2007)

You have to anticipate the decline of the industry and set up some alternative employment. In this country we'd probably do it with taxpayers money.

There is still loads of coal left unmined in South Wales, and the value of coal has risen dramatically since Thatcher's days. Alot of people keep saying about a return to coal mining using modern methods if the 'clean coal' technology is proven, but it's a big 'if'.


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## Gromit (Dec 31, 2007)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> You have to anticipate the decline of the industry and set up some alternative employment. In this country we'd probably do it with taxpayers money.
> 
> There is still loads of coal left unmined in South Wales, and the value of coal has risen dramatically since Thatcher's days. Alot of people keep saying about a return to coal mining using modern methods if the 'clean coal' technology is proven, but it's a big 'if'.


 
Actually they've started opencast mining at Merthyr Tydfil again. Residents aren't happy.


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## 1927 (Dec 31, 2007)

lewislewis said:
			
		

> You have to anticipate the decline of the industry and set up some alternative employment. In this country we'd probably do it with taxpayers money.
> 
> There is still loads of coal left unmined in South Wales, and the value of coal has risen dramatically since Thatcher's days. Alot of people keep saying about a return to coal mining using modern methods if the 'clean coal' technology is proven, but it's a big 'if'.



There IS a lot of coal left unmined, but there is a big difference between a resource and a reserve!


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## Threshers_Flail (Dec 31, 2007)

Does anyone actually want a return of coal mining in Wales? Even if it can be made, 'clean', which i highly doubt it can, it is still a very hard, dangerous job, much better if safer alternative industries were provided, but that's not going to happen. I know people tend to blame everything on Thatcher, but in this sense, its true. She knew she could get away with it because nobody in their right mind will vote Tory in that part of Wales.


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## Gavin Bl (Dec 31, 2007)

Marius said:
			
		

> Actually they've started opencast mining at Merthyr Tydfil again. Residents aren't happy.



its been going for years, I believe they are filling in one of the holes now - and they are IMMENSE. With that and the work on the Heads of the Valleys road, and the abbatoir, it must have been pretty messy. As if Blaen Dowlais needed any help with being grim... ...they put a McDonalds drive thru in, just to add insult to injury.

I've often wondered if chapel culture would have lasted longer if the mines and what not hadn't gone - even if we were still churning out coal, I couldn't see it surviving the onslaught of secular individualism, or whatever you want to call it.


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## lewislewis (Jan 1, 2008)

Marius said:
			
		

> Actually they've started opencast mining at Merthyr Tydfil again. Residents aren't happy.



There is loads of opencasting going on, mainly for export (I wouldn't be surprised if the coal was being exported to China).

A Labour MP (the one for Ogmore Vale actually) suggested a return to deep mining to burn the coal at Welsh (and other UK) power plants using this mythical 'clean coal' or 'carbon capture' technology. It sounds suspicious to me, but i'm interested in whether it is really possible.

About ten years ago my Dad's mate worked at one of the last deep mines, using all the modern technology. It sounded really interesting but employs way less people than coal mining used to (for obvious reasons).


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