# Crown & Sceptre in Streatham Hill - news and discussion



## editor (Jan 18, 2019)

That's the rumours coming in strong 

Rumours of Wetherspoon’s Crown & Sceptre closing causes consternation in Brixton Hill and Streatham


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## cuppa tee (Jan 18, 2019)

> .Brexit propagandist and cheapest landlady in town, Tim Martin


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## Twattor (Jan 18, 2019)

I asked one of the AMs about this a week or so ago and they said they didn't know anything about it, but regulars who also drink in the Sultan and Hand in Hand report staff have been inquiring about alternate employment there.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 18, 2019)

cuppa tee said:


>


timina martin


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## BCBlues (Jan 18, 2019)

I never realised that Stay Free included a reference to the C&S. Great tune.


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## Smick (Jan 18, 2019)

The building was up for sale a while ago, wasn't it?

I remember a link on here to the sale.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 18, 2019)

This was mentioned in the Streatham thread quite a while ago.

I was hoping it was just rumour and had gone away.


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## Smick (Jan 18, 2019)

I can't find the Wetherspoon property disposal website any more. 

I was in last Saturday. There seemed to be a good number of people in. It would be a shame to see it go. I guess that site is fairly valuable, being on the South Circular, walking distance to Brixton, close to Streatham Hill station. 

I guess we could coordinate a fuss if developers are looking to buy it, have it rightly registered as a community asset. But even if we prevent a sale, Wetherspoons could easily leave it empty. Same shite as the White Hart in Tulse Hill.  It's just as much use to us shut as it is as an apartment block.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Jan 21, 2019)

Hope not, but probably inevitable. 

Surely there has been a pub on that site for donkeys years, so may be listed etc?

The spoons in Balham shut down suddenly just before Christmas too, apparently the landlords wanted to triple the rent, so spoons said fuck off.


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## CH1 (Jan 21, 2019)

There is an amusing (?) vignette of Tim Martins Brexit roadshow in a Portsmouth Wetherspoons last week. The responses described here were not at all what he got in the Beehive (and presumable the Crown and Sceptre) when he came on 7th December.
England’s rebel spirit is rising – and it wants a no-deal Brexit | John Harris

PS when the Moon under Water closed in Balham last November it split MumsNet down the middle. Half though it was a disgusting venue for tramps, whereas the others said it was the only place their kiddywinkles could get moderately priced drinks when the were home down from uni on their vac.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Jan 21, 2019)

having lived in Balham for a year a while back, it was the only place to get a drink without it feeling like a creche, and paying a fiver a pint. It was basically one of the few good things about the area, IMO.


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## Twattor (Jan 21, 2019)

Smick said:


> I can't find the Wetherspoon property disposal website any more.
> 
> I was in last Saturday. There seemed to be a good number of people in. It would be a shame to see it go. I guess that site is fairly valuable, being on the South Circular, walking distance to Brixton, close to Streatham Hill station.
> 
> I guess we could coordinate a fuss if developers are looking to buy it, have it rightly registered as a community asset. But even if we prevent a sale, Wetherspoons could easily leave it empty. Same shite as the White Hart in Tulse Hill.  It's just as much use to us shut as it is as an apartment block.


I spoke to CAMRA about ACV listing when it went on the market in 2017 and was told that we'd have to demonstrate it had community use (i.e clubs and societies rather than just drinking) to qualify as an ACV.  CAMRA also tell me that Lambeth have a robust pub protection policy in place which is supposed to prevent change of use, but i'll believe that when i see it.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Jan 21, 2019)

whats on the upper floors of the buildings? staff lodgings?


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## KatyF (Jan 21, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> whats on the upper floors of the buildings? staff lodgings?



Yes it is. 2 or 3 flats as far as I remember. 

Last time I spoke to the manager there (xmas/new year) I'm sure he said it had been taken off the market. The website that used to show all the Spoons pubs up for sale seems to not exist anymore.


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## Twattor (Feb 1, 2019)

It looks like 24th Feb will be the last day


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## T & P (Feb 1, 2019)

Twattor said:


> It looks like 24th Feb will be the last day


Really? That sucks


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## Nanker Phelge (Feb 2, 2019)

Twattor said:


> It looks like 24th Feb will be the last day



Shit...


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## Smick (Feb 2, 2019)

That Tim Martin is a bastard.

Where's his Brexit prosperity if he's having to close pubs?


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## CH1 (Feb 2, 2019)

Smick said:


> That Tim Martin is a bastard.
> Where's his Brexit prosperity if he's having to close pubs?


If you were a Methodist (which I know you're not) you would have been taught that publicans make money out of misery (as do bookies)!


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## Smick (Feb 3, 2019)

CH1 said:


> If you were a Methodist (which I know you're not) you would have been taught that publicans make money out of misery (as do bookies)!


I was raised an Irish Catholic. Drinking and gambling were endorsed from the altar. That's probably where I first went wrong.


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## CH1 (Feb 3, 2019)

Smick said:


> I was raised an Irish Catholic. Drinking and gambling were endorsed from the altar. That's probably where I first went wrong.


Actually I noticed on Wednesday that one of the bar maids had an unusual attitude. She started pouring me a pint of Five Points Brick Field Brown (5.4% abv) and it ran out at about 400 ml. "Is it OK if I charge you for a half?" she asked. Naturally I was delighted.

In most places - even other Wetherspoons such as the Beehive - the'd chuck it away and make you have something else.

I'm not sure how much Tim Martin micro-manages his pubs. Not much I should think. He is probably the nearest we have to Donald Trump, but fortunately his finger is on the supply of cheap hospitality rather than the nuclear button.

If the Crown and Sceptre has been disposed of it will be because they got a good price for the site.


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## technical (Feb 3, 2019)

Tim Martin is a twat. But I will be deeply sorry to see the crown & sceptre go. Mick Jones should organise some sort of campaign


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## BCBlues (Feb 3, 2019)

technical said:


> Tim Martin is a twat. But I will be deeply sorry to see the crown & sceptre go. Mick Jones should organise some sort of campaign



Even better if he bought it.


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## Brixton Hatter (Feb 4, 2019)

Twattor said:


> It looks like 24th Feb will be the last day


Gutted. 

But I don't understand. The Crown & Sceptre is packed all day, every day. It cannot possibly be unprofitable. But I guess the site is probably worth millions, especially if they build flats on the rather large car park round the back. (But who would want to pay half a million quid for a tiny flat next to one of the busiest and most polluted roads on London?)


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## editor (Feb 4, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Gutted.
> 
> But I don't understand. The Crown & Sceptre is packed all day, every day. It cannot possibly be unprofitable. But I guess the site is probably worth millions, especially if they build flats on the rather large car park round the back. (But who would want to pay half a million quid for a tiny flat next to one of the busiest and most polluted roads on London?)


All developers care about is the quick, pocket-lining flog off. They don't give a shit about community, social cohesion, history or heritage, all they care about is filling their ugly faces with even more money. They are scum. Absolute scum.


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## Twattor (Feb 4, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Gutted.
> 
> But I don't understand. The Crown & Sceptre is packed all day, every day. It cannot possibly be unprofitable. But I guess the site is probably worth millions, especially if they build flats on the rather large car park round the back. (But who would want to pay half a million quid for a tiny flat next to one of the busiest and most polluted roads on London?)


Don't know.  The building is falling apart and needs a chunk of money spent on it.  They have painted the ceiling and re-upholstered a few chairs recently, but bits of masonry keep falling off the outside and the gents loos haven't worked for years. They may also have taken a hit from the 2017 business rates changes - there is a lot of floor area.

I haven't found anyone able to tell me for certain what's happening.  Most staff deny any knowledge of closure, so it is not impossible that it's just closing for refit or has been sold to a pubco.  Not holding my breath though.


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## KatyF (Feb 4, 2019)

Twattor said:


> Don't know.  The building is falling apart and needs a chunk of money spent on it.  They have painted the ceiling and re-upholstered a few chairs recently, but bits of masonry keep falling off the outside and the gents loos haven't worked for years. They may also have taken a hit from the 2017 business rates changes - there is a lot of floor area.
> 
> I haven't found anyone able to tell me for certain what's happening.  Most staff deny any knowledge of closure, so it is not impossible that it's just closing for refit or has been sold to a pubco.  Not holding my breath though.



Im sure I was told a figure of £2 million to get it up to standard. Though parts of it have been falling off as long as I've drunk there and that's nearly 15 years!

I have also been trying to find out - I've had a resolute no its not closing on that date but I'm not 100% certain still.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 4, 2019)

Is it listed in any way, that stipulates there should still be a pub on the site?


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## Twattor (Feb 7, 2019)

Skips in the car park. Not looking good.


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## Twattor (Feb 7, 2019)

Fuckers in their death throes have had better beers on in the last week than they have in the last god knows how many years.


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## CH1 (Feb 7, 2019)

Was in there on Tuesday about 7pm and it was surprisingly packed (I say surprisingly because I usually go at 10 pm or later and its generally more quiet by then).

I'm off up there at 10 pm. Will note the ambience.


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## KatyF (Feb 7, 2019)

CH1 said:


> I'm off up there at 10 pm. Will note the ambience.



Can you note what is in the skips?!


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## SpamMisery (Feb 7, 2019)

Ingredients

Tapioca Starch
Sunflower Oil (32%)
Maize Flour
Prawn Cocktail Flavour [Sugar, Salt, Natural Flavourings, Acid: Citric Acid, Dried Onion, Natural Vinegar Flavouring, Potassium Chloride, Yeast Extract, Spice, Dried Tomato, Natural Pepper Flavourings, Colour: Paprika Extract]
Rice Protein
Sugar
Salt
Colour: Paprika Extract


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## CH1 (Feb 8, 2019)

SpamMisery said:


> Ingredients
> 
> Tapioca Starch
> Sunflower Oil (32%)
> ...


Ha ha. Actually I did not inspect the (single) high-sided skip. The place was crawling with Labour canvassers presumably fagged out from forcing the electorate away from their tellys. Even my ward councillor was there grand-standing.


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## editor (Feb 8, 2019)

Twitter says


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## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 8, 2019)

This is shit news. Along with the Balham one, these 2 spoons were one of the few that you could get a half decent meal in.


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## CH1 (Feb 8, 2019)

editor said:


> Twitter says



That's a weird Twitter account. Even more weird is the linked blog.
All trivia - mainly retweets.
This however is original


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## editor (Feb 8, 2019)

Still trying to get a confirmation if the pub is indeed closing on 24th Feb. 

Oh I found this tweet from 2017


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## CH1 (Feb 8, 2019)

editor said:


> Still trying to get a confirmation if the pub is indeed closing on 24th Feb.
> Oh I found this tweet from 2017



I was talking to a real 'Spoons cognoscenti in the Crown & Sceptre last night. He agreed with what I had found - that staff will not confirm or deny the closure or closure date.

He also pointed out that several of the current staff have been redeployed from the closed Balham pub so are no doubt pissed off with this.


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## KatyF (Feb 8, 2019)

I messaged the manager last week to ask and he said no it wasn't closing. But I take it with a pinch of salt as when I first heard rumours of it being up for sale he denied it then told me a few weeks later when we were out drinking.


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## Brixton Hatter (Feb 8, 2019)

I saw it for sale on a property website a year or so ago, but they'd put the wrong picture on (it was of a pub somewhere else) so I assumed it was a mistake. 

I might be wrong but I also heard a rumour on Twitter a while back that the Holland Tringham might close...(they might have bene getting mixed up with the C&S though.)


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## Twattor (Feb 8, 2019)

CH1 said:


> I was talking to a real 'Spoons cognoscenti in the Crown & Sceptre last night. He agreed with what I had found - that staff will not confirm or deny the closure or closure date.
> 
> He also pointed out that several of the current staff have been redeployed from the closed Balham pub so are no doubt pissed off with this.


Was talking to one of the AMs last night who was unhappy that the area general manager hadn't bothered to contact them. They did at least confirm closure.


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## Twattor (Feb 8, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I saw it for sale on a property website a year or so ago, but they'd put the wrong picture on (it was of a pub somewhere else) so I assumed it was a mistake.
> 
> I might be wrong but I also heard a rumour on Twitter a while back that the Holland Tringham might close...(they might have bene getting mixed up with the C&S though.)


Holland Tringham is leased not owned. Owner wants to develop the site. There may already have been an application submitted.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 8, 2019)

I remember going there when I was growing up in the area, when Spoonses were quite a new concept, and I thought I'd be a bit more nostalgic about it but actually I'm not. It was a functional place in a weird location - it was just big, had decent beer and happened to be equidistant from me and my friends at the time. I don't feel bad about South London places from my youth being closed for nostalgic reasons in general.

However nowadays pubs closing means people get put out of work, another community meeting point disappears, and it will just end up being fucking flats that nobody can afford. So I'm against it.


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## Yage (Feb 8, 2019)

Hi there. 

For the record, that was a genuine question about the fluidity of a capon’s gender.

Also, as another commented, there are indeed skips in the car park of the , showing signs of ‘change’. Staff appear to have their mouths zipped regarding any more info but as soon as I know I will report back  

TTFN


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## Yage (Feb 8, 2019)

KatyF said:


> Can you note what is in the skips?!



Nothing interesting but me and P-Dawg were going to throw local “alien/god representative “ Anthony in the skip if he hadn’t have been barred.


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## lang rabbie (Feb 8, 2019)

editor said:


> Still trying to get a confirmation if the pub is indeed closing on 24th Feb.
> 
> Oh I found this tweet from 2017




It was one of a large number of pubs that they put on the market.   

There was some speculation at the time that the random mix of pubs were not particular properties they needed/wanted to sell but because Wetherspoons needed to have sold some pubs as going concerns so they could demonstrate that the values they had for the freehold pub estate on their balance sheet were realistic (unlike some other pubcos that had massively overvalued their property portfolios).  Having sold a few at the asking prices they could then borrow money more cheaply.


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## lang rabbie (Feb 8, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I might be wrong but I also heard a rumour on Twitter a while back that the Holland Tringham might close...(they might have bene getting mixed up with the C&S though.)



Spoons only have a lease on the Holland Tringham.  The property owner put in an outline planning application 18/01121/OUT for redevelopment of the site as 8 flats above 2 shops with parking instead of the beer garden. 

This got turned down by Lambeth PDQ



> 1 In absence of a viability assessment and marketing information, it has not been demonstrated that the use of the site as a public house is no longer economically viable. It has also not been demonstrated that the loss of the public house would not result in the loss of a facility of particular value to the local community. Furthermore, the proposed replacement development in the form of two small retail units in place of one large unit as existing in the Streatham High Road primary shopping area, has not been justified through the submission of marketing evidence demonstrating that there is a lack of demand for larger units in this location. As such, the proposed replacement uses have the potential to detrimentally affect the vitality of the area and the character of the street scene. Therefore, the application is contrary to policy ED8 and ED6 (f) of the London Borough of Lambeth Local Plan (2015).
> 
> 2 The proposed development, by reason of the absence of a completed Section 106 agreement to secure a policy compliant level and type of on-site affordable housing, and in the absence of a viability report to demonstrate that a policy compliant level and type of on-site affordable housing would not be economically viable, is contrary to policies H2 and H4 of the London Borough of Lambeth Local Plan (2015).
> 
> ...


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## Brixton Hatter (Feb 8, 2019)

lang rabbie said:


> Spoons only have a lease on the Holland Tringham.  The property owner put in an outline planning application 18/01121/OUT for redevelopment of the site as 8 flats above 2 shops with parking instead of the beer garden.
> 
> This got turned down by Lambeth PDQ


Cheers. A pretty damning rejection then!


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## T & P (Feb 8, 2019)

Are the Spoons pubs run independently staff-wise? In other words, is the staff employed by the landlord or by the company? I hope every effort is made to find positions in other pubs for those wanting to continue working for the company.


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## Yage (Feb 9, 2019)

T & P said:


> Are the Spoons pubs run independently staff-wise? In other words, is the staff employed by the landlord or by the company? I hope every effort is made to find positions in other pubs for those wanting to continue working for the company.


The staff are employed by the company so when the pub closes they will be given the option to work at another Wetherspoons.


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## Yage (Feb 9, 2019)

Skip has a lid on it so will have to wait till it gets darker and I’m more drunk before I sneak a peek ;-)


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## Cold Harbour (Feb 9, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Cheers. A pretty damning rejection then!



It's a lovely building too, bastard (owner, not Council).


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## Yage (Feb 9, 2019)

Cold Harbour said:


> It's a lovely building too, bastard (owner, not Council).


The man’s a donk head.


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## lordnoise (Feb 14, 2019)

Very bad news for those who are on a budget. Not any consolation but spoons are redeveloping the pub and site (corner Anerley Hill/Church Rd) opposite the Westow House in Crystal Palace. Spending big bucks apparently ...


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## T & P (Feb 14, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Very bad news for those who are on a budget. Not any consolation but spoons are redeveloping the pub and site (corner Anerley Hill/Church Rd) opposite the Westow House in Crystal Palace. Spending big bucks apparently ...


Surely if it remains a Spoons pub the prices will remain affordable regardless of how much they spend on the refurb? Unless Spoons has a branch of ‘premium’ pubs with higher prices I’m not aware of. 

Wetherspoons’ chief selling point is its affordability so I can’t see one offering wares at upmarket prices having bright prospects of success.


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## KatyF (Feb 14, 2019)

The one in Palace is reportedly going to be a Lloyds so they can play music etc


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## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 15, 2019)

T & P said:


> Surely if it remains a Spoons pub the prices will remain affordable regardless of how much they spend on the refurb? Unless Spoons has a branch of ‘premium’ pubs with higher prices I’m not aware of.
> 
> Wetherspoons’ chief selling point is its affordability so I can’t see one offering wares at upmarket prices having bright prospects of success.



Many Spoons are more expensive, and often not just by the odd 20p per pint. We're quite lucky in this part of South London in that the Spoons are very much at the cheaper end. The Brixton, Tooting and Streatham ones are the cheapest spoons i've found in London. The Balham one was slightly more expensive but still decent. 

If you go to say the one in Angel its at least £1 per pint more expensive than Brixton. I do get that it is tied to location/rents etc but i think they use that as an excuse, the rent in Angel cant be that much more than Brixton relative to a quid a drink extra. You might as well go to a normal pub if your anywhere north of the river.


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## CH1 (Feb 15, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Many Spoons are more expensive, and often not just by the odd 20p per pint. We're quite lucky in this part of South London in that the Spoons are very much at the cheaper end. The Brixton, Tooting and Streatham ones are the cheapest spoons i've found in London. The Balham one was slightly more expensive but still decent.
> 
> If you go to say the one in Angel its at least £1 per pint more expensive than Brixton. I do get that it is tied to location/rents etc but i think they use that as an excuse, the rent in Angel cant be that much more than Brixton relative to a quid a drink extra. You might as well go to a normal pub if your anywhere north of the river.


As a Wetherspoons connoisseur I would say that the company operates a zoning system.I think you will find that the current guest ale price in the Crown & Sceptre and the Fox on the Hill is £2.15
Peckham Kentish Drovers and Brixton Beehive is £1.99. I expect Streatham Holland Tringham would be £1.99 (or maybe £1.89 - it was always cheaper that most.
On the other hand they have moved the Rockingham at Elephant and Castle into zone 1 and current price for Guest Ale is £2.95
The Asparagus at Falcon Road (Battersea) has always been expensive and could be £2.95 or even £3.49 by now.

If you venture to the Willow Walk at Victoria, or the Lord Moon or the Mall at Whitehall, or even the one at Baker Street station, or indeed the Penderel Oak in Holborn the price of Guest is around £3.49.

I'm told that for the more suburban palate there are Wetherspoons in places like New Malden and Raynes Park which are as cheap as the Beehive.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 15, 2019)

Ah a fellow connoissuer! 

Yes the Kentish Drovers is certainly among the cheaper ones, but not particularly pleasant. I've twice made the huge error of ordering a burger in there whilst hungry and got a lukewarm, anaemic thing chucked against stale bun, accompanied with partly frozen chips. the place is definitely not geared towards people ordering and/or enjoying food, which i do perfectly understand. 

I've always found that the Elephant and Castle one, whilst still more expensive, is considerably cheaper than any other zone 1 spoons. Try ordering a pint of lager in the Bank one and you'll get a couple of 10p's as change from a fiver. 

Having spent some time in the suburbs you mention, they are indeed at the cheapest end of the scale. Surbiton and New Malden are good for that, not so much the Kingston one as it is opposite a massive nightclub so has a captive audience to charge a bit extra.  

I always forget about the Fox on Hill. Cracking spot on a warm summers evening.


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## Twattor (Feb 15, 2019)

CH1 said:


> As a Wetherspoons connoisseur I would say that the company operates a zoning system.


That's really interesting.  I finished a long walk at the Sovereign in Petts Wood last summer and was surprised at how much more expensive it was than the Crown.  This explains why.


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## Brixton Hatter (Feb 15, 2019)

Yep - central London spoons around £4 a pint (or more) and the food a little more expensive IIRC.


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## Twattor (Feb 16, 2019)

Pub was rammed this eve albeit mostly with people who needed to show ID. 

Still no information from anyone. GM gives short shrift but won't actually commit to anything apart from giving the odd knowing wink. 

A bit of honestly would be appreciated.


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## KatyF (Feb 16, 2019)

Twattor said:


> A bit of honestly would be appreciated.



This. If it's closing why not just say? I'd like to know so I can pop back for one last night out there.


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## lordnoise (Feb 16, 2019)

Anyone giving the council some grief over the closure - social amenity etc. etc. after all theres not that many pubs in that area ... Streatham seems to have been built by Mormons ...


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## lang rabbie (Feb 16, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Streatham seems to have been built by Mormons ...


Methodists, mostly.  We're just as bad when it comes to puritanism.


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## lordnoise (Feb 18, 2019)

Confirmed by bar staff tonight that the pub closes this Sunday the 24th - sounds like its going out with a whimper too - no wake planned.
Its demise is a great blow for those of a certain age with a certain income level  ...


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## editor (Feb 18, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Confirmed by bar staff tonight that the pub closes this Sunday the 24th - sounds like its going out with a whimper too - no wake planned.
> Its demise is a great blow for those of a certain age with a certain income level  ...


Bugger


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## editor (Feb 18, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Confirmed by bar staff tonight that the pub closes this Sunday the 24th - sounds like its going out with a whimper too - no wake planned.
> Its demise is a great blow for those of a certain age with a certain income level  ...


I'll put up a post on Buzz about this. Are there any other snippets of into you could add?


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## lordnoise (Feb 18, 2019)

Sorry ed but thats all I could get out of the staff member - they were upset but at least had been promised a job in the Holland Tringham in deep Streatham ...


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## editor (Feb 19, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Sorry ed but thats all I could get out of the staff member - they were upset but at least had been promised a job in the Holland Tringham in deep Streatham ...


OK thanks. I'll use your quote from here if that's OK. Hopefully the article will attract some more feedback. That's three pubs along that stretch that have gone


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## Yage (Feb 19, 2019)

editor said:


> OK thanks. I'll use your quote from here if that's OK. Hopefully the article will attract some more feedback. That's three pubs along that stretch that have gone


Indeed. It was confirmed to me last night too that it closes standard time on Sunday. Some of the staff (existing and old) are having a get together on Saturday. 

I don't think there’s going to be much furniture left by EOB Sunday by the sounds of it. Some of the locals were weighing up the tables and have their eyes on the ‘artwork’ (apparently painted by twatty Tim’s cousin).


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## BusLanes (Feb 19, 2019)

Sorry to hear it's shutting


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## BusLanes (Feb 19, 2019)

Looks like you made the NME, editor


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## David Gadsby (Feb 19, 2019)

Has my last drink with my dad here, twenty years ago . Been going in since '85. Will miss it


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## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 20, 2019)

Was in there last night, they are already running out of food and beers.

It was busy, as it probably is every week day at around that time, and it made me think what a shame it is that it is closing, and where everyone who would normally be in there will go after Sunday.

It struck me as perhaps the ideal type of pub spoons would want to be running with a real cross section of people in there- families having dinner, old boys nursing pints, groups of youngsters having their cheap drinks together as there is no where else they can afford etc etc. I get there is lots we don't know about the building which has made spoons decide to sell the place, but it just seems like a proper busy local pub that shouldn't be getting closed down in my opinion.


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## KatyF (Feb 20, 2019)

I'm incredibly sad it's closing. It's been the backdrop to the last 14 years of my life. The first time I went in was after I'd been to see the place I was moving into with my (then) boyfriend. I've had some incredible nights in there and met some amazing people.

Going up there on Thursday night for one last hurrah, hopefully they'll still have something I can drink!


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## Nanker Phelge (Feb 20, 2019)

There's a lot of people that are always in there. Where are they gonna go?


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## technical (Feb 20, 2019)

It’s the cross-section of people that I’ve always liked about the pub. Plus the cheap beer

I guess the sultan and the hand in hand aren’t too far away as alternatives but not quite like the crown & sceptre


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## editor (Feb 20, 2019)

technical said:


> It’s the cross-section of people that I’ve always liked about the pub. Plus the cheap beer
> 
> I guess the sultan and the hand in hand aren’t too far away as alternatives but not quite like the crown & sceptre


The hand is pretty good. I find the Sultan a bit, err, England-flaggy.


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## technical (Feb 21, 2019)

editor said:


> The hand is pretty good. I find the Sultan a bit, err, England-flaggy.



Probably right. So some regulars from the Crown & Sceptre may not feel so welcome there.


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## editor (Feb 21, 2019)

I played 'Stay Free' by The Clash when I was doing the washing up and got all _emooosh._


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## Brixton Hatter (Feb 21, 2019)

In the garden now having lunch and a few pints. It’s a beautiful day. Bar staff still tight-lipped, but the writing is on the wall. Stuff is running out (no more Old Rosie or Cahluha hot pepper sauce.)

The skip is being filled up with furniture: cupboard & wardrobe doors, a corner storage unit, a computer monitor, CDs, DVDs, an ironing board. Whatever’s happening, the worker’s flats upstairs are being emptied out. Sad times.


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## editor (Feb 21, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> In the garden now having lunch and a few pints. It’s a beautiful day. Bar staff still tight-lipped, but the writing is on the wall. Stuff is running out (no more Old Rosie or Cahluha hot pepper sauce.)
> 
> The skip is being filled up with furniture: cupboard & wardrobe doors, a corner storage unit, a computer monitor, CDs, DVDs, an ironing board. Whatever’s happening, the worker’s flats upstairs are being emptied out. Sad times.


If you get chance, could you grab some pics of the pub and the skip before it disappears forever?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 21, 2019)

editor said:


> If you get chance, could you grab some pics of the pub and the skip before it disappears forever?


I got one or two today but I’ll be up there again tomorrow/Saturday


----------



## Yage (Feb 21, 2019)

It’s pretty busy tonight. 

To the right we have a large multicultural gathering of at least 3 generations noisily enjoying being with each other, students home from uni being very well behaved (considering the price of a drink) and the clickedy clank of someone winning on the fruit machine. 

Some locals banter with a group of electricians on a job from Newcastle, everyone has a smile on their face. Strangers talk at the bar and other tables see more than a few lone drinkers and eaters happy with the annonimity, friendliness and privacy the place provides. 

Finally to the (far!) left, today is the local labour supporting group meet up, one of many groups that use this as their gathering place of choice along with other groups including LGBTI, blind, deaf/BSL, DNS to name a few. All enjoying the huge spectrum of people and lives that frequent this place.

There is no prejudice here.


----------



## lordnoise (Feb 21, 2019)

In here as well - bar staff now denying its closing ! Not sure what to believe  ... getting p***ed off due to the lack of clarity though ...


----------



## Twattor (Feb 21, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> In here as well - bar staff now denying its closing ! Not sure what to believe  ... getting p***ed off due to the lack of clarity though ...


Experiencing the same. Very busy tonight. Could it be a cynical ploy to drum up business?

Still going to come in tomorrow to try to eat all the Wetherspoon's food, though.


----------



## Maggot (Feb 21, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Was in there last night, they are already running out of food and beers.


Thinking about having an emergency drinks there tomorrow, before its too late. Anyone up for it?


----------



## Twattor (Feb 21, 2019)

Maggot said:


> Thinking about having an emergency drinks there tomorrow, before its too late. Anyone up for it?


Tomorrow evening to eat Wetherspoon's small plates snacks before all are gone. Any claims of beers running out are premature, although staff still deny pub is closing


----------



## Yage (Feb 21, 2019)

Maggot said:


> Thinking about having an emergency drinks there tomorrow, before its too late. Anyone up for it?


Yes


----------



## Twattor (Feb 21, 2019)

Maggot said:


> Thinking about having an emergency drinks there tomorrow, before its too late. Anyone up for it?


I've got first call on the bottle stoppers on the shelf above left of the door to the ladies. Yage


----------



## KatyF (Feb 21, 2019)

I'm here and it's the busiest I've seen it for a long time. I've only ordered Stella.but that seems.fine.


----------



## KatyF (Feb 21, 2019)

Twattor said:


> I've got first call on the bottle stoppers on the shelf above left of the door to the ladies. Yage



Fair play.


----------



## lordnoise (Feb 21, 2019)

Sorry folks I must have caught a staff member off guard and in truthfull mode earlier in the week ... tonight its back to "its just a rumour" . A former publican customer in here says pub groups/companies dont like to advertise closures as you end up with a load of pissed morose punters who start taking things off the wall as momentos ... sadly ignore my posting earlier tonight - I think the old boy closes this Sunday ...


----------



## Twattor (Feb 21, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Sorry folks I must have caught a staff member off guard and in truthfull mode earlier in the week ... tonight its back to "its just a rumour" . A former publican customer in here says pub groups/companies dont like to advertise closures as you end up with a load of pissed morose punters who start taking things off the wall as momentos ... sadly ignore my posting earlier tonight - I think the old boy closes this Sunday ...


Emma's lovely but she does toe the company line


----------



## BusLanes (Feb 21, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Sorry folks I must have caught a staff member off guard and in truthfull mode earlier in the week ... tonight its back to "its just a rumour" . A former publican customer in here says pub groups/companies dont like to advertise closures as you end up with a load of pissed morose punters who start taking things off the wall as momentos ... sadly ignore my posting earlier tonight - I think the old boy closes this Sunday ...



Also an issue with suppliers too, although that isn't likely to be as much of an issue with a chain.

A cafe owner/ex publican told me that most people in that hospo trade will try and keep the closure secret as suppliers will stop giving a fuck


----------



## Twattor (Feb 21, 2019)

BusLanes said:


> Also an issue with suppliers too, although that isn't likely to be as much of an issue with a chain.
> 
> A cafe owner/ex publican told me that most people in that hospo trade will try and keep the closure secret as suppliers will stop giving a fuck


I still live in hope that it is all a cock-up. Some members of staff insist that the rumours of closure come from the punters.


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 22, 2019)

Had one in there last night, asked one of the bar maids and she looked at her manager nervously before saying "we havent been told". We know thats not true, but imagine actually having not been told!


----------



## lordnoise (Feb 22, 2019)

After all the palava we've caused and for the reasons I've mentioned above don't be surprised if they don't open on Sunday morning. 
(Now that really is an official punters rumour completely without foundation ...  )


----------



## Yage (Feb 22, 2019)

The bar staff were fighting over who was going to take home the unicorns head after the place closes.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 22, 2019)

Tonight in the pub I’ve seen old friends, students, ageing old punks, blokes in suits, gay couples, a group playing board games, a bunch of well dressed older Indian guys, teenagers up to no good, some ladies with their zimmer frames, a bunch of girls who looked so young they came out with their passports , a couple who ordered a glass of wine via the app and accidentally got a bottle and are now getting rather pissed, the barman from an old local of mine , a guy who reckons he’s been drinking in here for 40 years and his band used to play on the raised bit where the west indian boys sit....etc etc


----------



## lang rabbie (Feb 23, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Tonight in the pub I’ve seen old friends, students, ageing old punks, blokes in suits, gay couples, a group playing board games, a bunch of well dressed older Indian guys, teenagers up to no good, some ladies with their zimmer frames, a bunch of girls who looked so young they came out with their passports , a couple who ordered a glass of wine via the app and accidentally got a bottle and are now getting rather pissed, the barman from an old local of mine , a guy who reckons he’s been drinking in here for 40 years and his band used to play on the raised bit where the west indian boys sit....etc etc



Absolutely - if any local pub iss an "asset of community value", it is the Crown & Sceptre.

Wiping a bit of a tear from my eye - I've been drinking in this pub for 29 years and at 10pm realised that probably half of the people in the pub weren't even born back then.

Variety of stories doing the rounds - still a few conspiraloons who think Tim Martin is closing it to punish the most remain voting place in the country.

More plausible story - it has been sold to a leisure operator for conversion to a hotel with a new accommodation wing on car park possibly with retained pub below.  The best case scenario would be something like Tulse Hill Tavern (although that would price out a *lot* of current regulars).  The worst case scenario is some chain hotel operator with a soul-less hotel lobby bar of no interest to anyone.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 23, 2019)

lang rabbie said:


> Absolutely - if any local pub iss an "asset of community value", it is the Crown & Sceptre.
> 
> Wiping a bit of a tear from my eye - I've been drinking in this pub for 29 years and at 10pm realised that probably half of the people in the pub weren't even born back then.
> 
> ...


Yep, I reckon this is most likely: a gastropub with a “boutique hotel” above, a bit like the half moon or Tulse Hill hotel. If Wetherspoons don’t want it, maybe Fullers or one of the other big chains do.


----------



## Yage (Feb 24, 2019)

50% of the taps are off and the staff are discreetly saying goodbye to each other.

It’s still not shutting though apparently!


----------



## KatyF (Feb 24, 2019)

What have they got left? Was thinking about popping up there in a bit.


----------



## Yage (Feb 24, 2019)

Carling, Guinness and Hooch!


----------



## Kookycoops (Feb 24, 2019)

My cousin was working there last year and told me they were closing it down and building flats I was so gutted  and now it seems like it was not just a rumour


----------



## KatyF (Feb 24, 2019)

Rapidly running out of things in here but I'm glad Ive popped up for one last drink. Think I spied a Brixton Hatter as well!


----------



## Yage (Feb 24, 2019)

Don’t think I’ve ever met either of you but cheers all!

Sad times indeed.


----------



## KatyF (Feb 25, 2019)

Went last this morning, lights on but there's a sign on the door. Was on the bus so couldn't see what the sign said.


----------



## Yage (Feb 25, 2019)

Called the pub this morning. They’re not open today. They’re not open tomorrow. Asked when they would be re-opening, they “couldnt tell me that”!

There’s a flat bed truck in the car park. Couldn’t see what was in it though. 

The plot thickens... or doesn’t... who knows...!


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2019)

I've posted some of the comments from here on Buzz in the hope that we might get an answer as to what is happening to the pub. It's no way to treat locals. 

Crown & Sceptre pub on Streatham Hill goes out with a confusing whimper as locals take to social media


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 25, 2019)

As if they were still denying it last night, its hardly like a rowdy mob determined to drink the place dry were going to rock up at 10pm and refuse to leave


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 25, 2019)

Went past earlier. Definitely closed. Mobile scaffolding outside, some workers doing something to the outside of the building. Didn’t get a chance to ask them any details.

Signs up, but still no explanation.


----------



## Yage (Feb 25, 2019)

They are still denying the place has closed even after it has closed!!!

Edited: if you call them that is!


----------



## Yage (Feb 25, 2019)

Finally!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 25, 2019)

Barman in the Holland Tringham says Wetherspoons have definitely sold the Crown and Sceptre building. He doesn’t know who to, or what it will be in future, but it definitely won’t be a Wetherspoons again.


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2019)

The Beehive looks particularly packed right now.


----------



## lang rabbie (Feb 25, 2019)

Just wasted £12 on HM Land Registry (website as crap and unfriendly as it ever was). 

The pub postcode comes up with two addresses 2-2A Streatham Hill and 4 Streatham Hill.  

Suspecting dodgy dealings, I downloaded most recent details for both title registers and plans, only to find I had paid for duplicates of the same deeds against both addresses.  This relates to the purchase of the site - now registered as "2 and 4 Streatham Hill" -by JD Wetherspoon plc back in May 2016.

REGISTER EXTRACT Title Number : SGL337478
Address of Property : The Crown and Sceptre Public House, 2 and 4 Streatham Hill, London (SW2 4AH)
Price Stated : £2,480,000 plus £496,000 VAT
Registered Owner(s) : JD WETHERSPOON PLC (Co. Regn. No. 01709784) of Wetherspoon House, Reeds Crescent, Watford WD24 4QL.
Lender(s) : None​Feel free to buy me a drink or three in recompense!


----------



## lordnoise (Feb 25, 2019)

Tim Wetherspoon selling his assets due to Brexit uncertainty ...


----------



## CH1 (Feb 26, 2019)

lang rabbie said:


> Just wasted £12 on HM Land Registry (website as crap and unfriendly as it ever was).
> 
> The pub postcode comes up with two addresses 2-2A Streatham Hill and 4 Streatham Hill.
> 
> ...


What is the interpretation of this?
The pub was JJ Moons/Wetherspoons from about 1993. May have been leased from Allied Breweries or whoever. The 2016 entry could be the outright purchase.

The Land Registry does not give a history - just the original registration and the most recent transaction (which might now have been superseded).

We knew something was up at the Canterbury Arms in Brixton because May Properties registered a charge on the pub before finally moving in and purchasing.

If this pub has been bought by another company and completion has just occurred it might take a few weeks for the change to be recorded on the register (IMHO)


----------



## Kutuzov (Feb 26, 2019)

Anybody hoping to develop this site or sell it for redevelopment will have to take account of the Crown and Sceptre being on the Council's list of local heritage assets (known as the local heritage list). While this is not listed building status it does afford some degree of protection.  Under policy Q23 of the Lambeth Local Plan "The council will maintain a list of undesignated heritage assets which it considers to be of local (or greater) significance. It will be known as the ‘local heritage list’. ............. The objectives of maintaining the local heritage list are to: .............(ii) sustain or enhance their significance; and (iii) protect their settings. (c) The council will: (i) resist the destruction of assets on the local heritage list and expect applicants to retain, preserve, protect, safeguard and where desirable enhance them when developing proposals that affect them"
According to the listing the building is *"Mid 19th Century public house with two storey canted bays and hipped roof. Faience pub front. Landmark on South Circular."*


----------



## Twattor (Feb 26, 2019)

Latest rumours point towards Greene King acquisition so possibly something like Tulse Hill Hotel.


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

So now I'm hearing that there's signs in the window saying that they're reopening Friday and hiring staff! Can anyone confirm this? Maybe take a pic of the sign?


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 26, 2019)

Lol surely not.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Feb 26, 2019)

It's not April 1st on Friday....they are a month early


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

editor said:


> So now I'm hearing that there's signs in the window saying that they're reopening Friday and hiring staff! Can anyone confirm this? Maybe take a pic of the sign?


Behave!!!!


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

Yage said:


> Behave!!!!


Facebook comment and two replies to my article. Sounds wildly unlikely to me - that's why I was asking if anyone could check.


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

editor said:


> Facebook comment and two replies to my article. Sounds wildly unlikely to me - that's why I was asking if anyone could check.


Sounds like a wind-up but I’ll check it out!


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

Yage said:


> Sounds like a wind-up but I’ll check it out!


I've just emailed the company who say they've taken it over. Maybe this was why the staff were so reluctant to say what was happening?


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

editor said:


> I've just emailed the company who say they've taken it over. Maybe this was why the staff were so reluctant to say what was happening?


Oh right. Is that Green King? Getting it back open for Friday sounds a bit hopefull though surely? I guess they just need to stick some branding on and open the doors! I see that all the JDW branding was removed yesterday.


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

Yage said:


> Oh right. Is that Green King? Getting it back open for Friday sounds a bit hopefull though surely? I guess they just need to stick some branding on and open the doors! I see that all the JDW branding was removed yesterday.


It's not Greene King - it' a company who specialise in reopening closed pubs so it actually looks legit - but I don't want to say anything more until I get confirmation from them.


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

editor said:


> It's not Greene King - it' a company who specialise in reopening closed pubs so it actually looks legit - but I don't want to say anything more until I get confirmation from them.


Ah yes, I believe the Coach and Horses on Acre Lane had something similar.


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

Well cock-a-doodle-doo!!!

The “we are now closed” signs have been replaced with these (yes, I can confirm they were stuck on the glass from the inside!)

All the tables are still there and the coffe machine is still blinking away.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 26, 2019)

editor said:


> So now I'm hearing that there's signs in the window saying that they're reopening Friday and hiring staff! Can anyone confirm this? Maybe take a pic of the sign?


I've also heard the building will be reopening as a pub - possibly on Thursday. Will PM you!


----------



## KatyF (Feb 26, 2019)

I want in on this info please! Good news if it is staying as a pub, hopefully an affordable one.


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## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

That’s what it says on 3 doors!


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

Yage said:


> That’s what it says on 3 doors!


Do you mind if I use one or two of those pics?


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

editor said:


> Do you mind if I use one or two of those pics?


Use away darling!


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## T & P (Feb 26, 2019)

Cannot be a significant amount of refurb work being carried out if they’re planning to reopen this week... and surely they’d have to change the signs and remove the Wetherspoons references if the pub is no longer part of the chain.

Perhaps it’s just a change of management/ landlord with a basic facelift thrown in?


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

T & P said:


> Cannot be a significant amount of refurb work being carried out if they’re planning to reopen this week... and surely they’d have to change the signs and remove the Wetherspoons references if the pub is no longer part of the chain.
> 
> Perhaps it’s just a change of management/ landlord with a basic facelift thrown in?


All Wetherspoons references were removed yesterday. The coffee machine is still on inside and the furniture is as it was on Sunday. Any changes are going to be minimal unless Gordon Ramsay gets in there with a makeover show!


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

Article here. Thanks for the help everyone! The pub is now run by a company called LT Management Services.

Incredibly, the Crown & Sceptre in Streatham Hill is set to reopen this weekend!


----------



## TopCat (Feb 26, 2019)

I bet it's still a soulless dive.


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

Sounds like an excuse to party to me! (Facebook link doesn’t work on the page for me btw)


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

TopCat said:


> I bet it's still a soulless dive.


Better an open 'soulless dive' than a block of fucking flats for the rich.


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

TopCat said:


> I bet it's still a soulless dive.


And what’s your local then? !!


----------



## TopCat (Feb 26, 2019)

editor said:


> Better an open 'soulless dive' than a block of fucking flats for the rich.


I wholeheartedly agree.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 26, 2019)

Yage said:


> And what’s your local then? !!


The Albert or Ganley's


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 26, 2019)

I imagine the days of 2 quid pints and a 5 quid dinners are over though.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 26, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I imagine the days of 2 quid pints and a 5 quid dinner are over though.


Whether there is a market there for five quid pints and ten pound dinners remains to be seen.


----------



## KatyF (Feb 26, 2019)

Well I know what I'll be doing on Friday now!


----------



## Yage (Feb 26, 2019)

TopCat said:


> The Albert or Ganley's


Fucks Ganleys?


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

I've been told that "Lt is a holding company, used by pub companies until they get a buyer," which makes sense.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Feb 26, 2019)

Yage said:


> Fucks Ganleys?


Very exclusive establishment. You wouldn't like it.


----------



## T & P (Feb 26, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I imagine the days of 2 quid pints and a 5 quid dinners are over though.


Perhaps, but the lack of a thorough transformation a la Tulse Hill Hotel (anyone who’s been pre and post transformation will know what I mean) seems to me a good sign for the old patrons. There’s no way the new owners could get away with charging upmarket prices and marketing it as high quality gastro pub/ hotel without first tarting it up very considerably.


----------



## BusLanes (Feb 26, 2019)

Thought the building would need a lot of work though?


----------



## Yage (Feb 27, 2019)

editor said:


> I've been told that "Lt is a holding company, used by pub companies until they get a buyer," which makes sense.


I think that Facebook page is fake

ltmanagementservices.com is their real website. ltmanagement.com doesn’t exist.


----------



## Yage (Feb 27, 2019)

Ignore me. I’m talking sh1t...!


----------



## Twattor (Feb 27, 2019)

T & P said:


> Perhaps, but the lack of a thorough transformation a la Tulse Hill Hotel (anyone who’s been pre and post transformation will know what I mean) seems to me a good sign for the old patrons. There’s no way the new owners could get away with charging upmarket prices and marketing it as high quality gastro pub/ hotel without first tarting it up very considerably.


I'm not so sure.  I can't see how the business model would work.  Everyone knows the building needs a lot spent on it, and if JDW spent £2.5m on the freehold in 2016 then the current sales value must have been similar.  Unless LT are very cash rich then they could have loan/mortgage payments in the region of £10k/month on top of staff and running costs all of which will need to be covered, plus they are unlikely to have access to the supply chain and purchasing power of JDW.  Anyone purchasing from them would need similar levels of capital and have similar costs.

I don't see how the pub can continue in its current format unless as a JDW outlet, and if it had been viable for them to have done all the repairs then surely they'd have kept it.  Something, somewhere has to give.  I can't see disposal of the car park alone working as the proximity to other buildings restricts development opportunity.  A pubco with lots of capital might make it work as something like the Tulse Hill Hotel with maybe an accommodation annexe in the car park, but i can't see an independent getting sufficient returns to stay afloat.

What we don't want is independents taking it on and closing down because they can't make money, as demonstration of lack of viability would put it at risk of development.


----------



## Yage (Feb 27, 2019)

Also found this- Bar Staff - The Crown & Sceptre - Streatham - Indeed.co.uk

The address is conflicting but looks like a simple mistake


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 27, 2019)

What a peculiar story. 

So, some company are going to swoop in 5 days after it closes as a wetherpoons, and start banging out pints again like nothing has happened? 

It doesnt make much sense at all, how are whoever these people are, going to sort the place out and get everything up to speed, assuming they are nothing to do with Spoons? 

Its going to look and feel exactly the same. All the beer pumps and equipment the same, furniture, toilets etc etc. 

Still, if a price of a pint is similar, then it can only be good news. Im not holding my breathe, however.


----------



## Twattor (Feb 27, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> What a peculiar story.
> 
> So, some company are going to swoop in 5 days after it closes as a wetherpoons, and start banging out pints again like nothing has happened?
> 
> ...


I think it is more of a case of a holding company running it as a going concern until a genuine purchaser comes along.  If that's the case then i can't imagine they'll make any alterations as they won't want the associated costs, but i also can't imagine the prices or products will be the same as the supply chain belonged to JDW.

I've got the afternoon off on Friday so will pop in and see.  Assuming they have any staff by then...


----------



## Yage (Feb 27, 2019)

And there we have it!

Booze and nuts delivery this morning!


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 27, 2019)

Twattor said:


> I think it is more of a case of a holding company running it as a going concern until a genuine purchaser comes along.  If that's the case then i can't imagine they'll make any alterations as they won't want the associated costs, but i also can't imagine the prices or products will be the same as the supply chain belonged to JDW.
> 
> I've got the afternoon off on Friday so will pop in and see.  Assuming they have any staff by then...



So is this a common scenario? I've never heard of it happening but my knowledge on this kind of thing are not great. 

I would hope they would be reasonable on the drink prices, since what they have in their favour is a sizeable customer base that will be willing to have a look in once it is open again, but will be alienated if they start off by charging £5.20 a pint.


----------



## Wakabe (Feb 27, 2019)

Yage said:


> And there we have it!
> 
> Booze and nuts delivery this morning!



Yep! Just seen them rolling out the kegs. And a cage full of bottled beer - Blue Moon and Desperados were the only brands I could glimpse. 

There’s also a van at the back from Oxford Bar Company - Mobile barware for any occasion, which might suggest that this is an interim setup?


----------



## Yage (Feb 27, 2019)

Wakabe said:


> Yep! Just seen them rolling out the kegs. And a cage full of bottled beer - Blue Moon and Desperados were the only brands I could glimpse.
> 
> There’s also a van at the back from Oxford Bar Company - Mobile barware for any occasion, which might suggest that this is an interim setup?


Desperados - !!!


----------



## Twattor (Feb 27, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> So is this a common scenario? I've never heard of it happening but my knowledge on this kind of thing are not great.
> 
> I would hope they would be reasonable on the drink prices, since what they have in their favour is a sizeable customer base that will be willing to have a look in once it is open again, but will be alienated if they start off by charging £5.20 a pint.


I've not heard of it before, and tbh that came from Ed's buzz article.  Their website doesn't give any indication of their clients or any pubs that they actually own, but the internet shows them as managing the former Mitchell & Butler portfolio on behalf of a fund and also a chunk of New River's portfolio (200+ pubs acquired from Marstons).  Mitchell & Butler aren't exactly budget pubs.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 27, 2019)

Yage said:


> Fucks Ganleys?


Eh?


----------



## TopCat (Feb 27, 2019)

Yage said:


> Fucks Ganleys?


Ah I see. It's my local. In Morden.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Feb 27, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> what they have in their favour is a sizeable customer base that will be willing to have a look in once it is open again, but will be alienated if they start off by charging £5.20 a pint.



They might do a White Hart and alienate the whole customer base by making stupid rules and putting the prices up

Remember this failed attempt at gentrifying a good old local...

The pub where standing is forbidden – the White Hart in Tulse Hill draws terrible reviews


----------



## TopCat (Feb 27, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> What a peculiar story.
> 
> So, some company are going to swoop in 5 days after it closes as a wetherpoons, and start banging out pints again like nothing has happened?
> 
> ...


Can you drink at the bar? The important issue.


----------



## lordnoise (Feb 27, 2019)

I echo all those keeping their fingers crossed for a sub 3 quid pint ... heres also hoping that they get someone who can cook in the kitchen. Apart from the veg curry and the steak and kidney puddings spoons food was atrocious ...

My nickname for the pub used to be The Septic but from now on its The Lazarus - in time maybe The Laz for short ...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Feb 27, 2019)

More beer arrives...


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2019)

I doubt if the new owners can match Spoons super-low prices - and maybe it's unfair to expect that - but come on, there's still plenty to celebrate when a closed pub comes back from the dead.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Feb 27, 2019)

editor said:


> I doubt if the new owners can match Spoons super-low prices - and maybe it's unfair to expect that - but come on, there's still plenty to celebrate when a closed pub comes back from the dead.



One week turn around too...surely something to celebrate....I may pop in Saturday.

I wonder if they'll doing food straight away???


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Feb 27, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Can you drink at the bar? The important issue.



I'm not sure spoons allowed that did they?


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 27, 2019)

Yeah, theres no way it'll be close to spoons pricing, but just hoping its perhaps, £4 a pint of lager or something. Nothing around the £5 mark, ideally.


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## lordnoise (Feb 27, 2019)

Just looked at Green Kings portfolio - as well as top end places like the Tulse Hill Hotel its also responsible for the Hungry Horse outlets which might be a better fit as there are now 3 high end pub/hotels in the area and Mac Ds are already across the road ...


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## Yage (Feb 27, 2019)

Marstons truck delivering the beer which could be a tell tale sign.

I see they already own 1500 other pubs


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## lordnoise (Feb 27, 2019)

Love a pint of Pedigree although I'm not sure their entire output is fermented as below ...

_Marston's is the only remaining brewer to use Burton Union Sets; a system whereby fermentation barrels and troughs are linked together by pipework. The basic principle is one of preventing excessive beer and yeast loss through foaming, but the consequence is that the beer is in contact with more wood and with more beer, fermenting in a bigger volume, typically totalling about 100 barrels or 160 hectolitres. That results in a more consistent flavour and very little chance of a whole batch being ruined. All other large-scale brewers have abandoned that method in favour of stainless steel fermenting vessels, which while they ensure (through volume) a consistent flavour, limit the use of traditional yeast varieties. They make selective use of the unusual double dropping process (for example, in the production of Brakspear Bitter), which introduces complex flavours by a period of accelerated yeast growth._

There are other good trad beers within their family -  Jennings, Ringwood, Brakspear, Wychwood, McEwans, Wainwright and Bombardier ...

Getting thirsty now ...


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## Yage (Feb 27, 2019)

Just past the place and it’s lit up inside and out.

Will be going in on Friday around 7pm for a look around


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## Wakabe (Feb 28, 2019)

This morning there’s a chap with a couple of theodolites doing a survey in the car park. 

That makes me feel a bit worried that it’s going to be a big redevelopment but I guess at least something is in train


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 28, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Very bad news for those who are on a budget. Not any consolation but spoons are redeveloping the pub and site (corner Anerley Hill/Church Rd) opposite the Westow House in Crystal Palace. Spending big bucks apparently ...


That was a successful and very popular pub which Wetherspoons bought a few years ago. There was talk about it becoming a Lloyds No1 wine bar (there is already a Wetherspoons round the corner). They wanted to build over the front courtyard and open some kind of terrace but they kept getting refused planning permission so, for quite a while, the previous owners kept trading, which was a sad time because they lost their Camra hook up - because Camra thought they were closing - so you could no longer get discounts with a Camra card. Then they stopped doing food, then they stopped doing the music nights, and so it went on. They had several closing down parties. 

Then they were closed, and it has been boarded up ever since! 

Meanwhile, pubs and bars are opening all over the Triangle, so it may be that Wetherspoons were right to spot the potential, but they might just miss it if they don't get it open soon. 

Anyway - derail, sorry.


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 28, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Many Spoons are more expensive, and often not just by the odd 20p per pint. We're quite lucky in this part of South London in that the Spoons are very much at the cheaper end. The Brixton, Tooting and Streatham ones are the cheapest spoons i've found in London. The Balham one was slightly more expensive but still decent.
> 
> If you go to say the one in Angel its at least £1 per pint more expensive than Brixton. I do get that it is tied to location/rents etc but i think they use that as an excuse, the rent in Angel cant be that much more than Brixton relative to a quid a drink extra. You might as well go to a normal pub if your anywhere north of the river.


I didn't know that Wetherspoons varied their prices - I assumed they were set nationally. 

Perhaps that was naive of me, mind...


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## lordnoise (Feb 28, 2019)

I was reminded by some pals last night of a Wetherspoons that closed a few years ago in Kirkdale above Sydenham. Fairly unsually for a Spoons it was a modern building with a modern interior but like the Sceptre it suddenly closed and quickly reopened. 
When I went in I remember thinking it was hard to know it wasnt a spoons. It had a good choice of cask ale at spoons like prices with a food menu card very much spoons in style and content. It traded for quite some time before closing and being converted to flats.
Heres hoping similar doesn't happen to the Laz.


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## Crispy (Feb 28, 2019)

Surveyors on site are a mixed sign. It could be a simple area survey for the "proper" sale to a new landlord. Or it could be the first step in a redevelopment/change-of-use planning application. If you see the surveyors on the inside of the building, get worried.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 28, 2019)

little flourescent stickers stuck in patterns/grids on the outside of buildings is normally a bad sign too.


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## lordnoise (Feb 28, 2019)

Lets hope we get some honesty and clarity about its future from the new owners and their staff. Wetherspoons put their staff in a terrible situation asking them to be erm - _economical over the truth _- about its closing with regulars customers many of whom had become mates.


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## TruXta (Feb 28, 2019)

Guineveretoo said:


> That was a successful and very popular pub which Wetherspoons bought a few years ago. There was talk about it becoming a Lloyds No1 wine bar (there is already a Wetherspoons round the corner). They wanted to build over the front courtyard and open some kind of terrace but they kept getting refused planning permission so, for quite a while, the previous owners kept trading, which was a sad time because they lost their Camra hook up - because Camra thought they were closing - so you could no longer get discounts with a Camra card. Then they stopped doing food, then they stopped doing the music nights, and so it went on. They had several closing down parties.
> 
> Then they were closed, and it has been boarded up ever since!
> 
> ...


They're planning to knock the whole building down and build a new one that connects with the neighbour, essentially recreating what it used to look like before it got bombed iirc. The drawings I've seen look really good.


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 28, 2019)

TruXta said:


> They're planning to knock the whole building down and build a new one that connects with the neighbour, essentially recreating what it used to look like before it got bombed iirc. The drawings I've seen look really good.


They are knocking it down?? That's new.

The last I heard, they were still looking to do the roof terrace thing, and building upwards, but nothing about knocking it down.

PLANS FOR NEW-LOOK GRAPE AND GRAIN MADE PUBLIC

Was it bombed? I know that Westow House is being restored to what it was like before it was bombed, but I had not heard that about the Grape and Grain.


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## Crispy (Feb 28, 2019)

TruXta said:


> They're planning to knock the whole building down and build a new one that connects with the neighbour, essentially recreating what it used to look like before it got bombed iirc. The drawings I've seen look really good.


Bromley planning ref 19/00052/FULL1
19/00052/FULL1     |              Refurbishment and extension of public house including extension, roof garden and upgraded facilities comprising a two storey upper level extension over the existing pub building and a three storey extension to the western side of the building turning the street side corner adjacent to No.3 Church Road.                  |                                                                      Grape And Grain 2 Anerley Hill Anerley London SE19 2AA


The whole thing will be the pub, including the new shopfronts


With a second bar upstairs and a balcony looking down


And a _third _bar above that, with roof terrace.

That is a seriously big pub. Council decision still pending.


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## TruXta (Feb 28, 2019)

Ah, so not knocking it down. Cheers Crispy


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 28, 2019)

It is going to be absolutely huge! If it goes ahead. There have been objections lodged as well as support.


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## Smick (Feb 28, 2019)

It's a fairly similar site to the Tulse Hill Hotel. Busy crossroads on the South Circular, rooms above it, car park out the back. Could they be going for a similar conversion? 

Everyone was sure that the Tulse was doomed when bought over.


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## Brixton Hatter (Feb 28, 2019)

Nipped past the Crown & Sceptre earlier - staff inside getting it ready (staff I didn't recognise.) Looks basically the same, with some of the furniture moved about. Minimal makeover behind the bar from what I could see, but everything else looks pretty much the same.


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## lordnoise (Mar 1, 2019)

The Sceptre is dead! - Long Live The Sceptre!!!


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## Yage (Mar 1, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> The Sceptre is dead! - Long Live The Sceptre!!!


The Laz!


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## lordnoise (Mar 1, 2019)




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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 1, 2019)

Locals queuing outside already...


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## jimbarkanoodle (Mar 1, 2019)

Lets hope they aren't sorely disappointed when they find out the price of the pint they just ordered.


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## Yage (Mar 1, 2019)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Locals queuing outside already...


Excellent!!!


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## Twattor (Mar 1, 2019)

Not open yet


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## Yage (Mar 1, 2019)

They will open within the next hour apaz


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## Twattor (Mar 1, 2019)

No they won't. They're all ready to go but their license hasn't come through yet. They've been waiting all day.

Apparently pricing is staying pretty much the same.


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## Twattor (Mar 1, 2019)

Marston's EPA £1.99. 

Piped music, unfortunately. Long term plans involve live music.


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## Yage (Mar 1, 2019)

Twattor said:


> Marston's EPA £1.99.
> 
> Piped music, unfortunately. Long term plans involve live music.


Any idea of what company owns it?

What type of music are they playing? Is it that modern muck?


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## Twattor (Mar 1, 2019)

Yage said:


> What type of music are they playing? Is it that modern muck?


I'm no expert but I believe it may be what they call R'n'B. Which isn't anything like what I call R'n'B. Do not like.


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## Yage (Mar 1, 2019)

Twattor said:


> I'm no expert but I believe it may be what they call R'n'B. Which isn't anything like what I call R'n'B. Do not like.


Bet the locals love that!


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 1, 2019)

It will have been sold to this holding company quickly and they will run it as a pub until they can sell it off to someone else to build flats on.


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## lordnoise (Mar 1, 2019)

Its open! Nice landlady and partner (sounds like theyre from the NE). They say theyre in it for the long term and no connection to Greene King so notionally they can serve what they want. 5 and bit quid for 2 pints of cask ale and a packet of crisps so still nice and cheap. Great result given we were facing closure a few days ago. (Smells like theyve had the cleaners in too )


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 1, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Its open! Nice landlady and partner (sounds like theyre from the NE). They say theyre in it for the long term and no connection to Greene King so notionally they can serve what they want. 5 and bit quid for 2 pints of cask ale and a packet of crisps so still nice and cheap. Great result given we were facing closure a few days ago. (Smells like theyve had the cleaners in too )


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## Kem3008 (Mar 1, 2019)

lordnoise said:


> Its open! Nice landlady and partner (sounds like theyre from the NE). They say theyre in it for the long term and no connection to Greene King so notionally they can serve what they want. 5 and bit quid for 2 pints of cask ale and a packet of crisps so still nice and cheap. Great result given we were facing closure a few days ago. (Smells like theyve had the cleaners in too )[/QUOTE





lordnoise said:


> Its open! Nice landlady and partner (sounds like theyre from the NE). They say theyre in it for the long term and no connection to Greene King so notionally they can serve what they want. 5 and bit quid for 2 pints of cask ale and a packet of crisps so still nice and cheap. Great result given we were facing closure a few days ago. (Smells like theyve had the cleaners in too )


Do you know when they will start doing food


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## lordnoise (Mar 1, 2019)

Said next week ...


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## Yage (Mar 1, 2019)

Well... Tim’s cousins shite paintings have been removed (thank god). It looks a bit darker as the tv’s are turned off and they are playing generic music.

Other than that the lager is actually cheaper and everyone seems to be enjoying it. 

Thumbs up from me!


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## Yage (Mar 1, 2019)

They’re playing YMCA now.


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## ninelivecat (Mar 1, 2019)

Yage said:


> They’re playing YMCA now.


Thanks for the info do you know what the weekly opening hours are Sunday through to Saturday


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## artyfarty (Mar 2, 2019)

Nice to see old chums albeit briefly as I was in a rush this eve. Not sure why all the secrecy though. Why not just say we will be shut for 5 days and someone else is taking it over for the interim. The beer will still be cheep and it’s not going to be Overpriced flats just yet. This pub really is a neighbourhood resource.


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## Yage (Mar 3, 2019)

Shuts at 11pm on a Sunday...


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## jimbarkanoodle (Mar 4, 2019)

So, the pub has reopened and its almost as cheap, but none of the money goes to Tim Martin anymore? 

I'd say that is good news all round then.


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## T & P (Mar 4, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> So, the pub has reopened and its almost as cheap, but none of the money goes to Tim Martin anymore?
> 
> I'd say that is good news all round then.


They should hang a massive EU flag on the facade as well


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## Pimmybrixton (Mar 4, 2019)

Popped in there this lunchtime to check it out. My pint was cheaper than it was before Martin flogged it ! Doubt it will last long but 'HEY HO


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## Brixton Hatter (Mar 5, 2019)

My pint has gone up in price 

From £2.49 to £2.50 

Good points
 - Still a pub
 - Drinks still cheap
 - Toilets are cleaner
 - No more misleading political propaganda on the tables
 - Still a haven for locals, characters and misfits

Bad points
 - A bit soulless. (Never thought I'd say this, but it looked better as a Wetherspoons. They've taken all the sh!t off the walls, which makes it look a bit weird...worse than the Jockey from Shameless? )
 - Loud(ish) music behind the bar, which makes it difficult for some of the locals and bar staff to hear each other....but which you can't hear from anywhere else in the pub
 - No food. Crisps & peanuts sold out too. (Apparently food will resume next week.)

Also various people who were banned from the pub previously are now coming back in. (Which may or may not be a good thing!  )


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## KatyF (Mar 5, 2019)

I agree Brixton Hatter it's just a bit soulless. Went in on Saturday and last night and it just doesn't quite have the same feel. Happy it's still cheap and as you say the loos are a bit cleaner . What I presume is the landlady is lovely. Is a bit concerning that some people may now come back in.


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## Brixton Hatter (Mar 5, 2019)

Also, I can't get over the feeling this is all a bit of a pubco scam.... Can't really be bothered to type out my thoughts in full here, but a pub firm which apparently controls 1,100 boozers and blah etc etc....

Anyway, here's the new drinks menu.

Comments please.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Mar 6, 2019)

Impressed with the prices, i cannot think of any pub in London which isnt a Wetherspoons as cheap as that. 3 bottles of Stella for a fiver is crazy prices. 

Only place that comes close is possibly the Albert on the bottles of beer and shots, and a pub by Lewisham Station called 'The Anchor', where no pint is over £3.50.


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## colacubes (Mar 6, 2019)

Only 1 wine available by the glass is a bit poor. I mean the prices are very good but shit choice for people who don't want a bottle.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 6, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Also, I can't get over the feeling this is all a bit of a pubco scam.... Can't really be bothered to type out my thoughts in full here, but a pub firm which apparently controls 1,100 boozers and blah etc etc....



I've not been in but it looks a lot like a holding thing. Keeping the place turning over with minimal costs while they decide on the longer term course of action.


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## CH1 (Mar 6, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Impressed with the prices, i cannot think of any pub in London which isnt a Wetherspoons as cheap as that. 3 bottles of Stella for a fiver is crazy prices.
> 
> Only place that comes close is possibly the Albert on the bottles of beer and shots, and a pub by Lewisham Station called 'The Anchor', where no pint is over £3.50.


Marstons EPA and John Smiths is for people who sit there all day. (ie gnats Piss).
I guess the only way to suss out better quality ales (if available) is a personal visit.


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## Yage (Mar 7, 2019)

Looks like it’s the first day of food service. Same kind of grub, same kind of price.


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## Smick (Mar 7, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Impressed with the prices, i cannot think of any pub in London which isnt a Wetherspoons as cheap as that. 3 bottles of Stella for a fiver is crazy prices.
> 
> Only place that comes close is possibly the Albert on the bottles of beer and shots, and a pub by Lewisham Station called 'The Anchor', where no pint is over £3.50.


I think those will be 275ml bottles, so it's about £3.30 a pint. I know that's also very good, but one and a half pints for a fiver doesn't have the same ring.


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## Twattor (Mar 7, 2019)

It is a bit bleak with everything stripped off the walls though.

Was amused to hear the regulars grumbling about lack of beer over 4%. That's still cheap in comparison.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Mar 8, 2019)

Smick said:


> I think those will be 275ml bottles, so it's about £3.30 a pint. I know that's also very good, but one and a half pints for a fiver doesn't have the same ring.




Id be surprised if the Stella's were that small, as far as i know the only mass produced lagers that come in those sizes in pubs are Becks. You do get smaller Stella's in creates from the supermarket (I've seen them in 284ml bottles), but ive not seen them in pubs before. Not that i really drink it anyway, but i always look for the best value when im buying beers, taking in the ABV as well (which is now a mere 4.8% for Stella, comapred to 5.2% back in the day).


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## jimbarkanoodle (Mar 8, 2019)

Just read the food menu, how/why is it so cheap?  A Sunday Roast for £7.50!

Its basically a fake spoons , never seen the likes of it before.


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## Brixton Hatter (Mar 8, 2019)

Yeah basically a spoons without the brand name.

The only way they can have the prices that cheap on beer and food is economies of scale across the whole country. Looks like they have 100s of pubs. It seems like a Wetherspoons type operation. I saw a consultant type guy (with a laptop and stacks of papers) working with the manager the other day on the new menu. It's a proper operation and they've done this before. I'm sure I've seen those menus in other pubs. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Wetherspoons and the other pubcos have a stake in this company.....I'm off to do some research!


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## ninelivecat (Mar 9, 2019)

The food menu is a Greene King food menu apparently the same menu that The Horse and Groom have although the prices are cheaper on The Crown and Sceptre menu I heard a rumour that the pub will eventually became a Young's pub although I only heard it from one source so can't confirm that Cheers


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## artyfarty (Mar 9, 2019)

Pretty grim beer selection so far but frankly I’m just glad it’s open again. Does look and feel a bit like the Jockey in Shameless though. Hopefully that will improve. Hopefully the old spoons staff found new jobs.


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## editor (Mar 13, 2019)

Yage said:


> Looks like it’s the first day of food service. Same kind of grub, same kind of price.


That's well reasonable.


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## technical (Mar 22, 2019)

My first visit after reopening - have to say it looks exactly the same to me although the beer lineup is different. 

Still very reasonable though - place is busy so hopefully it’s got a long term future


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## Belisha Beacon (Mar 25, 2019)

Thanks for keeping this thread running I've been following it with interest.
Made my first visit after the mini-makeover on Saturday night and it was buzzing with people. Very good value. 7 ales and 2 ciders on. Piped music at the bar was a jarring contrast from Spoons but the service was swift and friendly.

Curious to see the comments about someone working on tailoring the menu - I kind of assumed they'd just looked at the Spoons menu and thought "better not mess with this too much..."

If the suggestion above is true that it could be taken over by Young's that will change the products, décor and clientele immediately....and we should make the most of the low prices we can. Two pints for £4.80 will rapidly become one for £5...


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## jimbarkanoodle (Mar 25, 2019)

Could easily see Young's snapping it up, and building fancy hotel rooms above. 

By the time this happens, you'll be lucky with Youngs if you can even get a pint out of them for £5, the amount of times they enjoy hiking prices in their pubs.


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## KatyF (Mar 25, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Could easily see Young's snapping it up, and building fancy hotel rooms above.
> 
> By the time this happens, you'll be lucky with Youngs if you can even get a pint out of them for £5, the amount of times they enjoy hiking prices in their pubs.



Yups, since Youngs took over the Manor Arms a couple of weeks ago, a pint of Estrella has gone up 20p already.


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## BusLanes (Mar 25, 2019)

Went last week by chance and had a nice session.
Had a meal too which was about £8, wasn't amazing but nor was it bad.


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## CH1 (Apr 10, 2019)

\just thought you might like to know that the majority of the shares of LT Pub Management Ltd, the new owners of Crown & Sceptre, are owned by Burac Trade & Investment Corp - a company associated with Lord Ashcroft, and registered in the British Virgin Islands
They've been dabbling in pubs for a while see here: Subscribe to read | Financial Times

I wonder whether either the Labour or Lib Dem electioneers will be choking into their pints tomorrow?


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## BusLanes (Apr 10, 2019)

CH1 said:


> \just thought you might like to know that the majority of the shares of LT Pub Management Ltd, the new owners of Crown & Sceptre, are owned by Burac Trade & Investment Corp - a company associated with Lord Ashcroft, and registered in the British Virgin Islands
> They've been dabbling in pubs for a while see here: Subscribe to read | Financial Times
> 
> I wonder whether either the Labour or Lib Dem electioneers will be choking into their pints tomorrow?



Would be a nice gesture if they both turned up


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## CH1 (Apr 10, 2019)

BusLanes said:


> Would be a nice gesture if they both turned up


The candidates won't - they'll be at the count at the Town Hall.
Result probably around midnight I guess.


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## BusLanes (Apr 10, 2019)

CH1 said:


> The candidates won't - they'll be at the count at the Town Hall.
> Result probably around midnight I guess.



Will be interesting to see who comes from Conservatives, Greens, UKIP and WEP


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## Twattor (May 4, 2019)

Pub has been empty of late. Tinny shit dance music played over Bluetooth behind the bar, prices up by 50p a pint, no more "club" food deals.

This week there have been barely half a dozen punters every night.

Although it isn't a chain shit pub anymore, it is still a shit pub albeit one that can't sustain no business. 

If you want a shit, cheapish pub then support it. Otherwise, luxury flats coming here soon.


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## jimbarkanoodle (May 7, 2019)

I have yet to visit since it stopped being a spoons, but the fact pints have gone up by 50p two months after opening doesnt give much incentive.

Has this price hike been because of, or the reason why it is now so empty?


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## editor (May 7, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> I have yet to visit since it stopped being a spoons, but the fact pints have gone up by 50p two months after opening doesnt give much incentive.
> 
> Has this price hike been because of, or the reason why it is now so empty?


I don't think any independent can come close to matching Wetherspoons bulk buying discounts. 50p on top of their usual prices seems pretty reasonable to me. 

The bottom line is: use it or lose it.


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## Yage (May 7, 2019)

editor said:


> I don't think any independent can come close to matching Wetherspoons bulk buying discounts. 50p on top of their usual prices seems pretty reasonable to me.
> 
> The bottom line is: use it or lose it.


Wetherspoons buying power is massive so I always thought prices would increase.

They’re not helping themselves though. Not serving food today, staff are negative an there’s no one running the place. 

Dead and dismal to say the least.


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## CH1 (May 10, 2019)

Apparently the Crown and Sceptre was one of 7 Wetherspoons closed in the last three months. I was in the Fox on the Hill last night, and it's rather similar to the Crown & Sceptre in many ways (except is doesn't have prominent TV).

Presumably the company makes its decisions in view of site vale and customer turnover - which possibly puts the Fox in the risk category. I fancy that weekend trade might be better at the Fox though as it has "family friendly" facilities such as a mega car park and children's play area.


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## Yage (May 21, 2019)

New daily specials menu today. Hoping this pulls in more business. Good selection of sausages there!!


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## editor (May 21, 2019)

Yage said:


> New daily specials menu today. Hoping this pulls in more business. Good selection of sausages there!!


Not exactly wooing the vegan/veggies with that menu.


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## Yage (May 21, 2019)

Better than most places. Two of the burgers are veg along with pie, curry and sausage. Sad not to see fish on there. 

Personally I’d love to see more chickpea (yum yum) What would you want to see on the menu?


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## editor (May 21, 2019)

Yage said:


> Better than most places. Two of the burgers are veg along with pie, curry and sausage. Sad not to see fish on there.
> 
> Personally I’d love to see more chickpea (yum yum) What would you want to see on the menu?


More than one veggie choice per day. And a Linda Mccartney sausage is hardly an enticing gourmet prospect. You can buy  6 for a quid!


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## Yage (May 22, 2019)

editor said:


> More than one veggie choice per day. And a Linda Mccartney sausage is hardly an enticing gourmet prospect. You can buy  6 for a quid!


That’s just the specials. Plenty of vegan fair on the standard menu.


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## Twattor (May 22, 2019)

Deserted pub with no beer. Non-viable. Luxury flats coming soon.


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## editor (May 22, 2019)

Yage said:


> That’s just the specials. Plenty of vegan fair on the standard menu.


Do they have a website/FB page? Seems hard to get much info on them. I'd be happy to give them a bit of publicity if they had something going on....


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## Yage (May 23, 2019)

editor said:


> Do they have a website/FB page? Seems hard to get much info on them. I'd be happy to give them a bit of publicity if they had something going on....


Don’t think so. Do you eat cheese?


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## Yage (Jul 8, 2019)

Had food here Saturday expecting it to be awful. And it was..... very nice!

Goats cheese and peach salad was excellent and would order it again. 

Keep up the good work folks!


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## CH1 (Jul 9, 2019)

I haven't tried the food but last Tuesday was there for drinks. There were two Wimbledon Brewery ales for £2.50/pint which seems quite reasonable for a non Wetherspoon pub. Only issue for me was the beers in question were 4% abv - but they tasted good nevertheless.


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## Yage (Aug 6, 2019)

editor said:


> Do they have a website/FB page? Seems hard to get much info on them. I'd be happy to give them a bit of publicity if they had something going on....


Something new for you chap!


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## Brixton Hatter (Aug 7, 2019)

Pub seems to be doing alright. Steady stream of daytime drinkers, usual after work crowd, numbers seem to have recovered a bit and the garden is popular in this hot weather. Drinks selection improved slightly too. They seem to be making an effort. Quiz on a Tuesday night.

Oh...and in a complete break from the Wetherspoons tradition they have installed...wait for it....

...a shisha tent in the back garden!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Aug 7, 2019)




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## gaijingirl (Aug 7, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> View attachment 180046



 blimey - wouldn't have seen that coming!


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## Yage (Jun 16, 2020)

Soz, think I posted in the wrong thread...!

Looks like The Crown & Sceptre had a lick of paint in April/May ready for a reopening (pics from their FB page).

Hoping that they will be able to do that soon. Especially as they have the large outdoors area.

I wonder if gazebos in pub gardens are acceptable if they have open sides (the same as smoking rules)..


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## nick (May 6, 2022)

Facebook (That ever reliable news outlet) tells me that it is closing on 22 May 22. 
A real shame if true


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## jimbarkanoodle (May 6, 2022)

Had a look at the Facebook post, and notice they are saying that "the owner/developer have different plans". I guess that means expensive flats, i think a pub building like that should be listed and kept as a pub. Its a landmark.


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## CH1 (May 6, 2022)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Had a look at the Facebook post, and notice they are saying that "the owner/developer have different plans". I guess that means expensive flats, i think a pub building like that should be listed and kept as a pub. Its a landmark.


When Wetherspoons sold it info from the land registry led a trail to "a company controlled by Lord Ashcroft" which was a "meanwhile" provider of pubs.
So presumably the very obliging tenants running it recently were just that - tenants.
Sorry to see the end of this incarnation - I had become attached to a gay OAP group which met there on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
They had been told that food would not be available in May - so switched to another venue, originally on the basis of coming back to the Crown & Sceptre in June - because the atmosphere was so convivial for daytime meet-ups of varying sizes - and the ale was very reasonably priced and well kept.


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## editor (May 6, 2022)

Unverified, but...



Anyone know anything about this?


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## CH1 (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> Unverified, but...
> 
> View attachment 321428
> 
> Anyone know anything about this?


apparently there is a Love Streatham Facebook group which announced this.
I'm not a member......


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## technical (May 6, 2022)

One of the few pubs in brixton/sw2 that attracts a proper cross section of the community IMO


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## TopCat (May 6, 2022)

Poor pub


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## editor (May 6, 2022)

More here 








						Crown & Sceptre pub on Streatham Hill set to permanently close on 22nd May 2022
					

Brixton Buzz was saddened to learn of the imminent demise of the Crown & Sceptre pub on Streatham Hill, which is set to permanently close on the 22nd May 2022.



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## DJWrongspeed (May 6, 2022)

Is that £3 a pint tomorrow or until it closes, this is important !


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## CH1 (May 7, 2022)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Is that £3 a pint tomorrow or until it closes, this is important !


For the last couple of months its been £2.80/pint for (real) ales, more and various higher prices for Staropramen, Guinness etc.  So the £3 might be an increase actually - though only taking them back to what they were charging 6 months ago.

Makes me wonder how the pricing worked in the Crown & Sceptre. I wonder if they inherited some Wetherspoons contracts - or at least contacts. When they reopened initially they were doing Wimbledon Brewery. Then they changed to Twickenham Brewery (which used to be available at the Peckham and Denmark Hill Wetherspoons).


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## Ryan2468 (May 9, 2022)

Perhaps a similar fate to that site just down the road next to the bus garage? I'm surprised the other corner of the junction has been waste ground for so long as well.


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## technical (May 13, 2022)

All beer is £3 a pint including the premium lagers. So a real bargain 

I’ll miss the C&S if it does go. Great building, lovely staff and as I’ve said before the customers reflect the diversity of SW2 demographics. Hope it survives for a while yet


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## BusLanes (May 13, 2022)

Ryan2468 said:


> Perhaps a similar fate to that site just down the road next to the bus garage? I'm surprised the other corner of the junction has been waste ground for so long as well.



What was there before?


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## CH1 (May 13, 2022)

Ryan2468 said:


> Perhaps a similar fate to that site just down the road next to the bus garage? I'm surprised the other corner of the junction has been waste ground for so long as well.


Do you mean next to the tram shed. ie the former grounds of the United Reformed Church? (now flats)


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## Ryan2468 (May 15, 2022)

CH1 said:


> Do you mean next to the tram shed. ie the former grounds of the United Reformed Church? (now flats)


Yes that's it sorry


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## julesbeck11 (May 27, 2022)

Anyone have. Intact details of the owners …?

If yes please kindly share. Ty.


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## julesbeck11 (May 27, 2022)

Contact details


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## BCBlues (May 27, 2022)

Crown & Sceptre
Streatham Hill
Brixton
London

HTH


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## editor (May 27, 2022)

julesbeck11 said:


> Contact details


All I know is that It has been bought by an LT Management Services client, so maybe approach them,?


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## CH1 (May 27, 2022)

editor said:


> All I know is that It has been bought by an LT Management Services client, so maybe approach them,?


Bit of a weird website  LT Management Services | My WordPress Blog


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## CH1 (May 27, 2022)

CH1 said:


> Bit of a weird website  LT Management Services | My WordPress Blog


If you dig deeper you find LT Pub Management and KT Management Services are financially related to Burac Invest and Trade.
This is a British Virgin Islands Company of (Lord) Michael Ashcroft.
I could produce companies house stuff - but this old 2009 Financial Times article shows how they carry on:

 A pub company associated with Lord Ashcroft has become so strapped for cash that a vehicle connected with the Tory deputy chairman has had to provide the group with three short-term working capital loans over the past 13 months. London Town, an Aim-listed group that operates 266 pubs, has been paying interest rates of between 10 and 15 per cent on three loans, totalling £6m, that it has received from Burac Invest and Trade. Burac, based in the British Virgin Islands, holds 48.4 per cent of the issued share capital of London Town on behalf of The Horizon Charitable Trust. According to a 2006 company statement, Horizon is an independent charitable trust associated with the interests of Lord Ashcroft. A relative newcomer to the pub trade, London Town started life as a residential property developer. The company only made the leap into the pub sector in November 2006 when it acquired 167 pubs from Jack Petchey, the octogenarian property investor, for £94.7m. The deal, described at the time as the first step in building London Town into a big player in the tenanted pub industry, was funded through a £72.8m loan from Anglo Irish Bank, a £14m discounted bond issue and a £14.3m share placing. But with the pub industry suffering a sharp drop in trade, the acquisition, along with three other smaller deals it did in subsequent months, is looking ill-timed. For the six months to June 30 last year, pre-tax losses widened from £1.9m to £5.2m, according to the company’s last set of accounts. Net debt at the end of the period stood at £102m – or 6½ times its market capitalisation. Interest paid during the six months rose from £2.9m to £3.4m. The company, which revealed in the interim results that it was in the process of renegotiating the terms and covenants of its bank loans, has also lost two chief executives and a chairman over the past two years. Robar, a Jersey-based investment vehicle of Roy Richardson, the property developer who has a 20 per cent stake in London Town, has also provided two short-term working capital loans to a total of £1.5m over the past six months. Both loans also carry a 15 per cent interest rate. Billy Buchanan, who took over the combined role of chief executive and chief financial officer last September, declined to comment. Calls to Lord Ashcroft and Cenkos, London Town’s nominated adviser, were not returned.

see page 2 of this https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/...f01dc81147ce921f8ae7504039b94059f1f4b5e3743d5


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## CH1 (May 27, 2022)

Another old article - 2013 - Morning Advertiser.
Billy Buchanan - pictured is still in charge now at LT Management Services according to Companies House





						Turnover of £17m for Buchanan's LT Pub Managament
					

LT Pub Management, the UK's largest pub management business, has reported turnover of £16.9m in its first 10 months of trading.




					www.morningadvertiser.co.uk


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## editor (May 30, 2022)

Lovely tribute here


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## lang rabbie (Jun 1, 2022)

CH1 said:


> When Wetherspoons sold it info from the land registry led a trail to "a company controlled by Lord Ashcroft" which was a "meanwhile" provider of pubs.
> So presumably the very obliging tenants running it recently were just that - tenants.
> Sorry to see the end of this incarnation - I had become attached to a gay OAP group which met there on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
> They had been told that food would not be available in May - so switched to another venue, originally on the basis of coming back to the Crown & Sceptre in June - because the atmosphere was so convivial for daytime meet-ups of varying sizes - and the ale was very reasonably priced and well kept.


Was that land registry information?

The purchasers in 2019 were "Urban & Urban Properties" who are separate from the company that has been managing the pub.

*Register summary*
Title number SGL337478
Registered owners Urban & Urban Properties Limited
27 Mortimer Street, London W1T 3BL
Last sold for £3,000,000 plus £540,000 VAT on 26 February 2019

A separate subsidiary company Crown and Sceptre Streatham Ltd was set up by Urban & Urban.  Not sure what it has actually done to have accumulated a deficit of over £200k in two years!


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## CH1 (Jun 1, 2022)

lang rabbie said:


> Was that land registry information?
> 
> The purchasers in 2019 were "Urban & Urban Properties" who are separate from the company that has been managing the pub.
> 
> ...


I'd have to go back over past post - but LT Management Services was I assumed Land Registry info.
But it came up first on this thread here Crown & Sceptre in Streatham Hill - news and discussion

I would need to check some emails on my old computer to see if I generated that information.
But I was aware that the people running the pub for the last 3 years were (I think) Serbian and had their own newly created company registered at 2 Streatham Hill.  I guess they were tenants.

But tenants of who?

PS The Land Registry document you posted towards the beginning of this thread said this:
(03.05.2016) PROPRIETOR: JD WETHERSPOON PLC (Co. Regn. No. 01709784) of
Wetherspoon House, Reeds Crescent, Watford WD24 4QL.
2 (03.05.2016) The price stated to have been paid on 31 March 2016 was
£2,480,000 plus £496,000 VAT.

on a document you obtained in 2019. Does this imply Wedtherspoons leased the pub from 1993 to 2016?


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## CH1 (Jun 2, 2022)

lang rabbie I have done a search on my trusty Windows XP Opera mail database and it seems the information about LT Management came from the digitised South London Press in Catford.









						Wetherspoon sells historic Streatham pub to the disgust of its customers
					

BY SAM COURTNEY-GUY toby@slpmedia.co.uk One of South London’s best-known landmark pubs – made even more famous by a 1978 Clash song – has changed hands after months of uncertainty which left punter…




					londonnewsonline.co.uk
				




This article (1 March 2019) states: "It is now owned by LT Management, thought to specialise in the temporary management of pubs, which plans to reopen it today."
and
"A spokesman for LT Management said: ““LT Management Services is pleased to confirm that a client of ours has purchased The Crown & Sceptre in Streatham Hill. The pub will reopen its doors this weekend and it will be very much business as usual. Our key aim is to make this iconic landmark and community resource something that the locals can be really proud of.”

The only Land Registry search I did around that time was on the Hero of Switzerland in May 2019. That was out of curiosity regarding a planning application. The Hero sadly has now been demolished.

I am at a loss to explain how LT Management Services is involved in the situation. You have Land Registry documentation showing it's Urban and Urban.  It appears they are LT Management's clients. and U & U were renting the place out to the pub landlords.

Urban and Urban's Companies House profile is clear as mud. They seemed to start off by taking a mortgage (amount not stated)  from Santander on a row of buildings in north London about 5 years ago.
There are currently two charges on their file - amount not stated, and lender obscured through intermediary companies.

I did also find this Savill's document which kicked the whole thing off:


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## lang rabbie (Jun 4, 2022)

CH1 said:


> lang rabbie I have done a search on my trusty Windows XP Opera mail database and it seems the information about LT Management came from the digitised South London Press in Catford.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


AFAIK LT Management have never "owned" the pub - they were just put in by the new owners to keep the pub operating.


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## CH1 (Jun 4, 2022)

lang rabbie said:


> AFAIK LT Management have never "owned" the pub - they were just put in by the new owners to keep the pub operating.


So what is the prognosis then? 
This seems like a simultaneous equation with too many variable.


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## ash (Jun 4, 2022)

An old friend produced this:


I think you know him editor

🥰


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## lang rabbie (Jun 8, 2022)

Curiouser and curiouser ...

The Crown & Sceptre is now appearing on Savill's Commercial site as 

"Available on a short term lease with base rent and turnover rent provisions"









						Leisure properties to rent in Clapham Park, London | Savills
					

Leisure properties to let in Clapham Park, London from Savills, one of the leading commercial property agents globally.




					search.savills.com
				




Intriguingly, any new lease of the pub only includes the pub, cellar and kitchen, and would exclude all the residential accommodation on first and second floors, which is considerably bigger than I thought. 

First floor: "There are three double bedrooms (one en suite), a kitchen, a living room and a bathroom which are not included within the demise."
"The second floor comprises six double bedrooms, two bathrooms, a kitchen and a living room which are not included within the demise."


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## CH1 (Jun 9, 2022)

lang rabbie said:


> Curiouser and curiouser ...
> 
> The Crown & Sceptre is now appearing on Savill's Commercial site as
> 
> ...


Is this a re-run of the Grosvenor then?


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## lang rabbie (Oct 21, 2022)

*NEWS!*

Some rumours that the Crown & Sceptre might be re-opening soonish as a pub with some of the former staff - but not the former lessee who apparently had massive falling out with the owners???  Apparently could need several weeks to do a deep clean first.


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## technical (Oct 21, 2022)

Fingers crossed. Would love it if the bowling green was ever reinstated!


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## BusLanes (Oct 22, 2022)

That would be amazing.


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## lang rabbie (Oct 28, 2022)

Confirmed sightings on local Facebook groups that work is underway.


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## Yage (Oct 29, 2022)

Was there today. Boards have been removed from the front and the pump lights are on. Also, I don’t recognise the paintings in the box from the old days!


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## Agent Sparrow (Oct 30, 2022)

My question is, if they do turn it back into a pub, are they going to have to turn it into a Tulse Hill Hotel type thing (including the hotel part) to make it commercially viable?


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## lang rabbie (Oct 30, 2022)

Get the impression from people who have talked to the team that pub will reopen with a very similar offer to what was there previously.


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## CH1 (Oct 30, 2022)

lang rabbie said:


> Get the impression from people who have talked to the team that pub will reopen with a very similar offer to what was there previously.


It was pretty much a de facto community pub - but evidently a community pub on the at risk register (in terms of being temporary tenants).


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## technical (Nov 1, 2022)

Had a look through the windows on the Streatham Hill side as I walked past this evening as the lights were on. Doesn’t really look as if anything has changed yet inside - looks pretty much the same bar furniture piled up in centre of pub


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## cuppa tee (Nov 2, 2022)

...now rumoured to reopen 12/11/22. 
_source: facebook group_


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## jakejb79 (Nov 2, 2022)

Is this pub owned by a pub company or is it still owned by a property developer?


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## CH1 (Nov 2, 2022)

More gossip (not from me):
walked past this afternoon and met Olly (the Polish bar person). He is back from Bishops Stortford and has been cleaning the pub - including the carpets. They are waiting for various permits and licences and hope to re-open on 12 November or soon after. The pub has been taken over by a private individual, not by a brewery. The plan is that they will provide food but he expected that prices for food and drink would go up. (He had no news about former bar person James.)


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## moggy1 (Nov 10, 2022)

Spoke to someone outside the pub today, who said although they had hoped to re open on 12th that has now been delayed.  He hoped it would happen in the next week.  There were men busy their working with hozes.


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## DJWrongspeed (Nov 10, 2022)

Good luck to them although what a time to open a pub! If Wetherspoons can't make it work who can? same for the reopening the Medusa Club in Brixton aka "Loki" takes alot of hope.


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## editor (Nov 10, 2022)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Good luck to them although what a time to open a pub! If Wetherspoons can't make it work who can? same for the reopening the Medusa Club in Brixton aka "Loki" takes alot of hope.


There's no shortage of people looking for clubs in Destination Partytown Brixton these days. Apart from uselessly promoted places like the Dogstar, most places are rammed on weekends.

The Crown & Sceptre is a tougher call but there's loads of potential there if they broaden the scope (comedy night/gig etc).


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## Yage (Nov 10, 2022)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Good luck to them although what a time to open a pub! If Wetherspoons can't make it work who can? same for the reopening the Medusa Club in Brixton aka "Loki" takes alot of hope.


The heating costs alone must be extortionate.


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## Crispy (Nov 10, 2022)

Yage said:


> The heating costs alone must be extortionate.


It was always baking in there. Just turning it down a few notches and keeping the drafts out of the windows would make a difference.


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## twistedAM (Nov 17, 2022)

They're installing Sky Sports - did they have that before?


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## editor (Nov 17, 2022)

twistedAM said:


> They're installing Sky Sports - did they have that before?



Looks like they're spending some money on the place:



> Expect new weekly events, live music, DJs, a tasty new food & drinks menu (including cocktails!), pub quiz themed nights and more, and you can catch all the sport across it’s 5 60 inch LED screens!











						Crown and Sceptre in Streatham to reopen ‘just in time for the World Cup’
					

The Crown & Sceptre in Streatham has announced that it will be opening ‘just in time for the World Cup,’ although they haven’t specified a dat.



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 17, 2022)

If they are opening in time for the world cup, they'll need to open in the next 3 days. 

Any idea what Pubco is behind the latest incarnation?


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## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 17, 2022)

twistedAM said:


> They're installing Sky Sports - did they have that before?


They might as well have waited a month and saved a few grand. The football is all on terrestrial tv until boxing day.


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## editor (Nov 17, 2022)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> If they are opening in time for the world cup, they'll need to open in the next 3 days.
> 
> Any idea what Pubco is behind the latest incarnation?


I've just been tipped off that it might be be opening tomorrow or Sunday


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## technical (Nov 17, 2022)

twistedAM said:


> They're installing Sky Sports - did they have that before?


No - the tv's in there were always on BBC news pretty much permanently (with the sound turned down)


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## Yage (Nov 17, 2022)

9 bedrooms?! Convenient for when blotto!


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 17, 2022)

whoops! wrong forum, meant to put in brixton chit chat


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## BusLanes (Nov 17, 2022)

Yage said:


> 9 bedrooms?! Convenient for when blotto!



Would not surprise me if tourists now would be willing to go there given the rise of Airbnb in SW London.


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## nick (Nov 19, 2022)

BusLanes said:


> Would not surprise me if tourists now would be willing to go there given the rise of Airbnb in SW London.


They should rename it the "South Chelsea Coaching House" and watch the confused Tourists come flooding in


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## cuppa tee (Nov 19, 2022)

according to rumour* mill open today 2pm ......unverified


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## Yage (Nov 19, 2022)

called them earlier and they said the same 2pm

Will be in there later!


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## moggy1 (Nov 19, 2022)

Official we went through the open doors at 2pm today, Saturday 19 November 2022 as first customers.. Both front and rear doors open. Rear garden seating and terrace open. Nick said beer prices between £3.20 and £6.50, he was full of apologies, as price he pays to buy some specialities in high. Olly was serviing along with Andrea.  Attached two menus, Breakfast menu was not yet ready.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2022)

moggy1 said:


> Official we went through the open doors at 2pm today, Saturday 19 November 2022 as first customers.. Both front and rear doors open. Rear garden seating and terrace open. Nick said beer prices between £3.20 and £6.50, he was full of apologies, as price he pays to buy some specialities in high. Olly was serviing along with Andrea.  Attached two menus, Breakfast menu was not yet ready.


Great to see it open but it's a shame that vegan and veggie choices seem like an afterthought.


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## Twattor (Nov 19, 2022)

Heaving for a soft opening. Pop-up kitchen from Scotch Bonnet. Music is fun. Allegedly karaoke soon. Only one ale - Hobgoblin Gold - but more promised soon. Thankfully no sport on the many and various TVs yet.


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## moggy1 (Nov 19, 2022)

Hi Editor, not at all, they were in a great rush to re-open for the Football, I take from the footnote, maybe ask the staff/chef.  For many non Vegan/Vegetarian catering establishments they have too much wastage offering that type of menu.  I feel they will offer better choice through talking what a vegan/vegarian might like.

_"Great to see it open but it's a shame that vegan and veggie choices seem like an afterthought."_

​


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## lang rabbie (Nov 20, 2022)

Great to see the pub open again, and also really good to serendipitously bump into some Streatham Hill folk that I haven't seen face to face since "before COVID".


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## DJWrongspeed (Nov 20, 2022)

Popped in, appeared to be same pub, busy so obviously has a local demand. Might go and watch the England game.hang on it’s at 1pm🙁


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## CH1 (Nov 21, 2022)

They had a supply of quasi tankard Hobgoblin glasses - for the Hobgoblin Ale.
I wondered if these suffered from the same disadvantage as the Wetherspoon Lefe goblets - the 500mL "pint".


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## editor (Nov 21, 2022)

If anyone could grab some photos so I could give the pub a plug on Buzz, that would be great.


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## lang rabbie (Nov 21, 2022)

CH1 said:


> They had a supply of quasi tankard Hobgoblin glasses - for the Hobgoblin Ale.
> I wondered if these suffered from the same disadvantage as the Wetherspoon Lefe goblets - the 500mL "pint".
> View attachment 352331


Looks to be closer to a 525ml pint, but I would still ask whoever was behind the bar for a top-up


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## nick (Nov 22, 2022)

Wetherspoons had non pint glasses? 
Did Tim Martin not campaign loudly against the imposition of this fancy foreign ml concept?

Surely a pint is a pint? (cry god for Harry, England and St George" etc)


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## lang rabbie (Nov 22, 2022)

nick said:


> Wetherspoons had non pint glasses?
> Did Tim Martin not campaign loudly against the imposition of this fancy foreign ml concept?
> 
> Surely a pint is a pint? (cry god for Harry, England and St George" etc)


These branded glasses can hold a pint, it is just that their shape means you are more likely to get sure measure if the ale has a head.


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