# Confess your literary ignorance



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2016)

I've never read To Kill A Mockingbird
I've never read any Philip Roth, John Updike or William Faulkner.
I've not read a word of Don Quixote
I've never read any Mark Twain, Herman Melville, Ernest Hemingway or Victor Hugo.


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## chilango (Jan 7, 2016)

I've burnt a book on two seperate occasions.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2016)

chilango said:


> I've burnt a book on two seperate occasions.


Which books?
i burnt my Gideon Bible in the school grounds when I was 14 or 15


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## chilango (Jan 7, 2016)

A David Icke book at a party full of hippies.

A Tom Clancy when I couldn't get my stove to work 5000m up a mountain.


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## mauvais (Jan 7, 2016)

chilango said:


> A Tom Clancy when I couldn't get my stove to work 5000m up a mountain.


It's what he would have wanted.

That, WWIII with Russia and another Republican president. But mostly your operational stove.


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## laptop (Jan 8, 2016)

I've never read any big fat Russian novel. Too hard to keep track when there are three times as many names as characters, I've heard.


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## JimW (Jan 8, 2016)

laptop said:


> I've never read any big fat Russian novel. Too hard to keep track when there are three times as many names as characters, I've heard.


A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich is mercifully short. Like reading Farmer Giles of Ham instead of LoTR


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

chilango said:


> I've burnt a book on two seperate occasions.


i burned two books on one occasion


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Which books?
> i burnt my Gideon Bible in the school grounds when I was 14 or 15


burned brighton rock and long short and tall in cemetery after finishing my gcses


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

never read and never will read any jane austen


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## laptop (Jan 8, 2016)

JimW said:


> A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich is mercifully short. Like reading Farmer Giles of Ham instead of LoTR


(And I have read it.) 
Big Fat Novels, you know who you are.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

I find it impossible to read anything written before about 1940.... Ive never read a book to the end from before 1940 - in most cases Ive stopped on the first page.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I find it impossible to read anything written before about 1940.... Ive never read a book to the end from before 1940 - in most cases Ive stopped on the first page.


Why that magical date?


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Why that magical date?


everything before feels antiquated and written in a language and or logic that makes my eye lids droop - post WW2 seems to be the birth of a new modren era that I can relate to, in both style and content


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

laptop said:


> I've never read any big fat Russian novel. Too hard to keep track when there are three times as many names as characters, I've heard.


same. the best Ive done is Gorky's Mother - got a third into that...its an easy read tbf.

Also anything with loads of characters is instant switch off for me. I remember this with my attempts to read Rushdie's Midnight Children and 100 years of Solitude and also Arundhati Roy's God of Small Things <all classic books supposedly, but my brain just cant handle all these multiple characters and massive family trees


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## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

I love 20th Century fiction, particularly from the deep south and what generally falls into the legacy of Faulkner's The Sound And The Fury, but the only time I tried to read it about 20 years ago I found it very hard going and gave up on it. Keep meaning to try again, maybe this year


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## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I find it impossible to read anything written before about 1940.... Ive never read a book to the end from before 1940 - in most cases Ive stopped on the first page.



There are some real corkers though, Bram Stoker's Dracula remains one of the finest novels ever written. Crime & Punishment is very readable, both are equally gripping.

I made a decision about the same time I joined in the reading challenge in 2012 to throw away all of my literary prejudices, of which I had quite a few. I'd given up on sci-fi, fantasy, didn't bother with old stuff, avoided epic family dramas, thought I didn't like magic realism etc. As soon as I started reading outside my, by then, narrow field of interest, I discovered a whole new world of books that opened my eyes to all sorts of things. Going for Pulitzer/Booker prize winners and the classics was a great starting point.

I started to do it more with music after that too, instead of narrowing myself down to a small period of Jamaican music as I'd done for many years, and that's been really refreshing too. I need to do it with every aspect of my life I think.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

One of the oldest books Ive read to the end is Walk on The Wild Side, which almost fits in to that deep south thing - I thought it was older but its from 1956, but still a definite step back in time though, and filled with that old drawl and slang - may as well be poetry


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## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

You should read some Jack London, ska invita


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## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> One of the oldest books Ive read to the end is Walk on The Wild Side, which almost fits in to that deep south thing - I thought it was older but its from 1956, but still a definite step back in time though, and filled with that old drawl and slang - may as well be poetry



Cheers, that looks right up my street


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

ringo said:


> There are some real corkers though, Bram Stoker's Dracula remains one of the finest novels ever written. Crime & Punishment is very readable, both are equally gripping.
> 
> I made a decision about the same time I joined in the reading challenge in 2012 to throw away all of my literary prejudices, of which I had quite a few. I'd given up on sci-fi, fantasy, didn't bother with old stuff, avoided epic family dramas, thought I didn't like magic realism etc. As soon as I started reading outside my, by then, narrow field of interest, I discovered a whole new world of books that opened my eyes to all sorts of things. Going for Pulitzer/Booker prize winners and the classics was a great starting point.
> 
> I started to do it more with music after that too, instead of narrowing myself down to a small period of Jamaican music as I'd done for many years, and that's been really refreshing too. I need to do it with every aspect of my life I think.



Good move! Happy new year Ringo  

With literature its not out of trying though - its just puts me to sleep. I think the Russians might be a way in - it translates into what feels like modern prose in English - maybe something to do with the Russian language, or the unpretentiousness of Russian writers


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> You should read some Jack London, ska invita


Dont tell me what to do 



(Ill give it a try, thanks  )


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## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Good move! Happy new year Ringo



And to you mate


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## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

I've never read any Shakespear. Every time I've tried I've thought it bollocks after a couple of pages.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Good move! Happy new year Ringo
> 
> With literature its not out of trying though - its just puts me to sleep. I think the Russians might be a way in - it translates into what feels like modern prose in English - maybe something to do with the Russian language, or the unpretentiousness of Russian writers


It depends very much on the translation. Avoid Constance Garnett.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I find it impossible to read anything written before about 1940.... Ive never read a book to the end from before 1940 - in most cases Ive stopped on the first page.


never read sherlock holmes?


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

ringo said:


> Cheers, that looks right up my street



I only have one more tip from my literary ignorance:
I have this on the shelf but not tried it yet - from the 30s USA - Bukowski rates it very very highly as an early US classic written with the modern tightness and seeming simplicity, or something....I havent read it so dont know... I like Bukowskis attitude to writing and language so it appeals to me ... hard times in depression era LA....


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## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

laptop said:


> I've never read any big fat Russian novel. Too hard to keep track when there are three times as many names as characters, I've heard.


It's taken me about 30 years to get quarter of the way through volume 1 of War and Peace.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> never read sherlock holmes?


ive seen some Basil Rathbone ones - does that count?


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> never read and never will read any jane austen


Why?


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I've never read To Kill A Mockingbird
> I've never read any Philip Roth, John Updike or William Faulkner.
> I've not read a word of Don Quixote
> I've never read any Mark Twain, Herman Melville, Ernest Hemingway or Victor Hugo.


lucky you - loads to look forward to.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> Why?


because they're unmitigated tripe


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## Epona (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> never read sherlock holmes?



Although I am not the person you were talking to -

I'm not a massive fan of Conan Doyle, let's just say that our world views (Conan Doyle's and mine) do not have much crossover and leave it at that.


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> because they're unmitigated tripe


 Which you know, because you've never read a word of one.


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## Epona (Jan 8, 2016)

I can't stand Jane Austen either btw.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> ive seen some Basil Rathbone ones - does that count?


but you haven't read e.g. a study in scarlet: nor, by other authors, frankenstein, dracula, the beetle, the three impostors, heart of darkness, the nether world, kim, white stains, the green helmet, my fight for irish freedom, guerrilla days in ireland, any james connolly...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> Which you know, because you've never read a word of one.


i notice you're not disputing it but simply asking how i know it.


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i notice you're not disputing it but simply asking how i know it.


I dispute this. I love jane Austen. She is very funny.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> but you haven't read e.g. a study in scarlet: nor, by other authors, frankenstein, dracula, the beetle, the three impostors, heart of darkness, the nether world, kim, white stains, the green helmet, my fight for irish freedom, guerrilla days in ireland, any james connolly...


I will keep an open mind and put them on my bucket list 
white stains?
green helmet?
*snigger


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> I dispute this. I love jane Austen. She is very funny.


i see she's your favourite.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I will keep an open mind and put them on my bucket list


tbh i would sooner read jane austen than a lot of stuff written after 1945, e.g. salman rushdie. rushdie should have had a fatwa for writing such a turgid novel.


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## Epona (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh i would sooner read jane austen than a lot of stuff written after 1945, e.g. salman rushdie. rushdie should have had a fatwa for writing such a turgid novel.



I wouldn't go _quite _that far, but you do have a fairly valid point.


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i see she's your favourite.


She's in my top 2 Victorian women novelists for sure.


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## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> Which you know, because you've never read a word of one.


I've never read a JA novel either but I know what most of them are about and would rather sauté my testicles.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I will keep an open mind and put them on my bucket list
> white stains?
> green helmet?
> *snigger


the green helmet - yeats
white stains - crowley

if you like 'white stains' you might also enjoy 'snowdrops from a curate's garden'


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I've never read a JA novel either but I know what most of them are about and would rather sauté my testicles.


I think you ought to do that then.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> She's in my top 2 Victorian women novelists for sure.


yes. jane austen died in 1817. queen victoria was born in 1819 and ascended the throne in 1837. it is therefore anachronistick to describe austen as a victorian novelist when she was writing in the regency period.


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

I reckon Pickman would really enjoy jane Austen, she's an absolute master of the snide humorous put-down.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> I reckon Pickman would really enjoy jane Austen, she's an absolute master of the snide humorous put-down.


she may be but i'll never know because i'm never going to read her. anyway i expect lenin a better putdowner than austen with his accusations of windbaggery and so on


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## Plumdaff (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> I dispute this. I love jane Austen. She is very funny.



And acutely observes and amusingly critical of class and social mores. I find her a much more enjoyable read than many later 19th century novelists. 

That said, never finished a Dickens. 
No Pynchon, Updike or Roth. 
Only ever read one graphic novel.


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

Dickens is rubbish.


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 8, 2016)

Compared to Jane Austen, Charles Dickens looks like...well Charles Dickens. And Jane Austen looks like the purveyor of tiresome shite that she is.


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)




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## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

Pride And Prejudice is brilliant writing. Funny, sharp and incisive; puncturing pomposity and social mores all over the shop. I expected to hate it but laughed out loud and was hugely impressed. A thousand soap operas have aped it, it gets right to the heart of society's hypocrisy and foolishness.


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## JimW (Jan 8, 2016)

I'm ignorant about loads but am reading Middlemarch after seeing it top some best book list and it is great in a dated bourgeois way.


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## Epona (Jan 8, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Compared to Jane Austen, Charles Dickens looks like...well Charles Dickens. And Jane Austen looks like the purveyor of tiresome shite that she is.


Ugh, I'm not a big fan of Dickens either.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> Dickens is rubbish.


How dare you.


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## Steel Icarus (Jan 8, 2016)

No Dickend other than what I was made to at school
Great Gatsby I managed about three pages (and was still on the first sentence iirc)
No Bronte, Austen, anything much before 1930 tbh and virtually nothing by 20th century British writers


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Compared to Jane Austen, Charles Dickens looks like...well Charles Dickens. And Jane Austen looks like the purveyor of tiresome shite that she is.


Compared to JA Dickens looks like a turgid humorless buffoon who just deals in the dullest of 2 dimensional stereotypes.


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## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I find it impossible to read anything written before about 1940.... Ive never read a book to the end from before 1940 - in most cases Ive stopped on the first page.





S☼I said:


> ... anything much before 1930 tbh ...



Hasn't _everyone_ read The Jungle Book, and Kim?


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> the green helmet - yeats
> white stains - crowley
> 
> if you like 'white stains' you might also enjoy 'snowdrops from a curate's garden'


 



maybe this is telling of why im such a weak reader...


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Hasn't _everyone_ read The Jungle Book, and Kim?



no

Disney smashed it tbf - makes the book redundant


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## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Hasn't _everyone_ read The Jungle Book, and Kim?



Neither, other than extracts at school. I might add them to my list this year though, ta


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## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> no
> 
> Disney smashed it tbf - makes the book redundant




I'd recommend Kim very highly indeed.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

ringo said:


> Neither, other than extracts at school. I might add them to my list this year though, ta


stop making the rest of us look bad ringo


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I'd recommend Kim very highly indeed.


so would i: as did aleister crowley


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## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> stop making the rest of us look bad ringo


I was looking a bit keen wasn't I?





I'll go back to mucking about on the back row now


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

^^hah, great picture!

Please sir, can I read Kim out loud to the rest of the class sir! PLeeeeease!!!

OKay. "This is a brief life, but in its brevity it offers us some splendid moments, some meaningful adventures....




I see there are a couple of film adaptations of Kim.... this has got Sunday afternoon written all over it


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Please sir, can I read Kim out loud to the rest of the class sir! PLeeeeease!!!
> 
> OKay. "This is a brief life, but in its brevity it offers us some splendid moments, some meaningful adventures....
> 
> ...


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> so would i: as did aleister crowley


That Snowdrops thing does look really interesting as it goes - "a hilarious and remarkably inventive collection of erotic prose and verse"


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Ive even struggled to read Kiplings If?  Should really try again I suppose. He does make exceedingly good cakes tbf


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## krtek a houby (Jan 8, 2016)

I could not finish Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I also put 100 Years of Solitude back on the shelf, 20 years ago.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I could not finish Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I also put 100 Years of Solitude back on the shelf, 20 years ago.


only 80 more years to go


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I also put 100 Years of Solitude back on the shelf, 20 years ago.


in the right place i hope.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> That Snowdrops thing does look really interesting as it goes - "a hilarious and remarkably inventive collection of erotic prose and verse"


Snowdrops from a Curate's Garden (The Nameless Novel) - Aleister Crowley at Hermetic.com


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I could not finish Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I also put 100 Years of Solitude back on the shelf, 20 years ago.


i got about 2/3rds...it felt like enough...


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Snowdrops from a Curate's Garden (The Nameless Novel) - Aleister Crowley at Hermetic.com


Now that reminds me Ive read some de Sade short stories - they were cool  seems like a nice chap


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## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I could not finish Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I also put 100 Years of Solitude back on the shelf, 20 years ago.



Same here. I hope never to torture myself with ZATAOMM again, I hated it. I am going to finish 100 Years of Solitude though.


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## Treacle Toes (Jan 8, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I also put 100 Years of Solitude back on the shelf, 20 years ago.



Same...have tried twice to read it...got a chapter or so in and back to the shelf...still have a copy, no idea why.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Snowdrops from a Curate's Garden (The Nameless Novel) - Aleister Crowley at Hermetic.com


Hah - next time theres one of those "great opening lines "thing that comes up, I'd have to bring this up:

“Good, by Jesus!” cried the Countess, as, with her fat arse poised warily over the ascetic face of the Archbishop, she lolloped a great gob of greasy spend from the throat of her bulging cunt into the gaping mouth of the half-choked ecclesiastic.

(now read on.....)


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## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Ive even struggled to read Kiplings If?


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## Cloo (Jan 8, 2016)

Never read Hemingway, or To Kill a Mockingbird. Couldn't finish Naked Lunch (the only book ever to defeat me). Had to really fucking slog through Canetti's 'Auto da fe', because I hate not finishing books on the whole.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Cloo said:


> Never read Hemingway, or To Kill a Mockingbird. Couldn't finish Naked Lunch (the only book ever to defeat me). Had to really fucking slog through Canetti's 'Auto da fe', because I hate not finishing books on the whole.


When I bought Naked Lunch (in FOyles IIRC) the guy at hte counter said he'd never met anyone who'd finsihed it.
I got half way. TBH with a lot of Burroughs books theyre not really mean to be read front to back. They werent really written that way. Its enough to dip in and read a few pages I find.


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## Almost There (Jan 8, 2016)

Jane Austin and Charles Dickens. I've tried, but they're so, so boring!


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Naked Lunch the film is amazing - one of the greatest book adpatations of all time - though it goes beyond the book. Love that film


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Almost There said:


> Jane Austin and Charles Dickens. I've tried, but they're so, so boring!


I like where Dickens is coming from politically but yeah, too boring.
I think many of them were originally weekly episodes serialised in a newspaper? and only later collated into books...really messes up the flow that.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Never understood how people find either Austen or Dickens boring.


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## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

Cloo said:


> Never read Hemingway, or To Kill a Mockingbird. Couldn't finish Naked Lunch (the only book ever to defeat me).



I enjoyed all three, would recommend The Old Man And The Sea, it's only a very slim novella, done in no time, but incredible stuff. Hemingway doesn't have time to come across as such a macho cock either.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

I need tightness in writing...Dickens is so long winded


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## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I need tightness in writing...Dickens is so long winded


He's not. He's just detailed about people.


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## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

I confess I skipped all the bits in Infinite Jest that had anything to do with sport. Actually I always skip those bits, whatever I'm reading.


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## krtek a houby (Jan 8, 2016)

Cloo said:


> Never read Hemingway, or To Kill a Mockingbird. Couldn't finish Naked Lunch (the only book ever to defeat me). Had to really fucking slog through Canetti's 'Auto da fe', because I hate not finishing books on the whole.



To Kill a Mockingbird is worth reading. At the very least; the film version is reliable.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

laptop said:


> I've never read any big fat Russian novel. Too hard to keep track when there are three times as many names as characters, I've heard.


Yeah, it is tricky. I skim over the long patronymics and kind of make up my own way of saying them. Find that helps. But switching from surnames to patronymics back to surnames and then the familiar diminutive is annoying. 

I've never read Dickens. Reckon I never will.


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## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

Cloo said:


> (the only book ever to defeat me)


Really? 

I reckon I abandon about 25% of the books that I start, usually the ones that have been recommended to me on subjects that I wouldn't normally read. I'm also quite chaotic in my reading so at any one time I'll have at least 3 books on the go and often drop the least interesting for something else, then return to it a year or more later. 

Now is the first time for ages that I'm on 3 books that are all absorbing: A Fortunate Life/Paddy Ashdown; The Forgotten Soldier/Guy Sajer; Defending Jacob/William Landay.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I only have one more tip from my literary ignorance:
> I have this on the shelf but not tried it yet - from the 30s USA - Bukowski rates it very very highly as an early US classic written with the modern tightness and seeming simplicity, or something....I havent read it so dont know... I like Bukowskis attitude to writing and language so it appeals to me ... hard times in depression era LA....



That's really good and a really easy read. It's part of a trilogy. I recommend diving in. If you like Bukowski, you'll like Fante.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Really?
> 
> I reckon I abandon about 25% of the books that I start, usually the ones that have been recommended to me on subjects that I wouldn't normally read. I'm also quite chaotic in my reading so at any one time I'll have at least 3 books on the go and often drop the least interesting for something else, then return to it a year or more later.
> 
> Now is the first time for ages that I'm on 3 books that are all absorbing: A Fortunate Life/Paddy Ashdown; The Forgotten Soldier/Guy Sajer; Defending Jacob/William Landay.


read 'the forgotten soldier' 26 years ago; found out later it was a great favourite of alan clark.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I need tightness in writing...Dickens is so long winded


try 'the signalman'


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## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> read 'the forgotten soldier' 26 years ago; found out later it was a great favourite of alan clark.


When I saw you quoted that I thought you were going to give me stick about Ashdown.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

There have been certain authors I thought I should read. I have started four Celine novels, and not finished any of them.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> When I saw you quoted that I thought you were going to give me stick about Ashdown.


i'm sure you get it from a lot of other people


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## laptop (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I've never read Dickens. Reckon I never will.



Don't let the sugary adaptations put you off. Start at the sharp, cynical end with _Our Mutual Friend_.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

laptop said:


> Don't let the sugary adaptations put you off. Start at the sharp, cynical end with _Our Mutual Friend_.


Ta.

And you should start with Crime and Punishment.  Go on, dive in. Dostoyevsky is a great writer.


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## spanglechick (Jan 8, 2016)

I bbarely read at all any more. basically only when i have no phone or wifi signal.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

we need to find out who reads all those old westerns and stop them.


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## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> I bbarely read at all any more. basically only when i have no phone or wifi signal.


and even then thats the back of cereal packets and shampoo bottles


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## Sprocket. (Jan 8, 2016)

Only Dickens I really enjoyed were Hard Times and The Signalman.
Jane Austen is beyond words for me, and yes I have tried her books.
Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte is perhaps one of the best ghost stories ever written.
Conan-Doyle is best read in short bursts as it was first published.
Eric Ambler is often overlooked as the creator of the modern spy novel.
Try The Mask of Dimitrios.

John Steinbeck, some incredible work, Cannery Row being a personal favourite.


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## krtek a houby (Jan 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> we need to find out who reads all those old westerns and stop them.



Great covers, mind


----------



## susie12 (Jan 8, 2016)

Anna Karenina is one of the best novels I've ever read.  Also enjoyed Middlemarch, but I should add that I only read them because I was studying the 19th century novel at the time.  Glad I did though.  Don't like Jane Austen, they're all so mimsy, wrapping themselves in shawls to go a walk round the garden.  Wuthering Heights is great but that's as far as I've got with the Brontes.  Dracula is good too.


----------



## jakethesnake (Jan 8, 2016)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Great covers, mind


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Great covers, mind


----------



## Sea Star (Jan 8, 2016)

I started reading all my Dad's books when I was about 8 - my mum's books were mostly properly literate classics which i did enough of at school, but my Dad bought film adaptations and exciting adventure books, and books with lots of swearing and sex :-p
Then I discovered Sci Fi and stayed there for about 20 years!
since then I've been ploughing my way through Dickens, I love biographical books, and modern history books, and topical subject matter books, but haven't really dealt with modern novel.
The novels i do read tend to be classics that i read after getting a recommendation or because i know that the author is enough of a heavy weight that I think the book will be worthwhile. so I've read a lot of classics, I still have many to read, but my knowledge of fiction post about 1985 is very poor.
Also I've read quite a few philosophy books because I did a philosphy A Level once and i read way more than the required reading. but I haven't read one since, they just sit on my shelves now and make me look clever.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

I have read a few adaptations of film and tv series, and count Auf Weidersehen Pet 2 as a highlight of the genre.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Great covers, mind


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 81791


wheatelys racist satanism pulp thrillers had some fucked up covers:


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Great covers, mind


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 8, 2016)

I refuse to read anything that wins the booker prize.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> I confess I skipped all the bits in Infinite Jest that had anything to do with sport. Actually I always skip those bits, whatever I'm reading.


christ that was a bore, i think i gave up.

his journalism and shorter stuff is brilliant though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> I confess I skipped all the bits in Infinite Jest that had anything to do with sport. Actually I always skip those bits, whatever I'm reading.


wouldn't take you long to do "the loneliness of the long distance runner" or "this sporting life" - or "fever pitch" - then


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

There's a fella on Twitter who posts great old book covers - @PulpLibrarian


----------



## adidaswoody (Jan 8, 2016)

In 20 years I've never actually fully read a book.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

adidaswoody said:


> In 20 years I've never actually fully read a book.


and look where you've ended up


----------



## QOTH (Jan 8, 2016)

laptop said:


> Don't let the sugary adaptations put you off. Start at the sharp, cynical end with _Our Mutual Friend_.



Funnily enough, I love Dickens but I can't get through Our Mutual Friend.  Hard Times is my recommendation for non fans of Dickens - it's short, doesn't have too many silly names and has a serious point to it. 

I am also consistently defeated by Middlemarch.  I always enjoy the start, the whole story of naive, pompous Dorothy and her ill advised marriage is really compelling.  Then there's a whole load of stuff about the corn laws and I lose interest.


----------



## adidaswoody (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> and look where you've ended up


Back when I read I wasnt as tall, I wasnt as smart, I wasnt as strong, I was a virgin, since I've stopped reading I've got hair on my balls man!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

adidaswoody said:


> Back when I read I wasnt as tall, I wasnt as smart, I wasnt as strong, I was a virgin, since I've stopped reading I've got hair on my balls man!


but you still haven't got laid?


----------



## adidaswoody (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> but you still haven't got laid?


Ask your mom


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

adidaswoody said:


> Ask your mom


she wouldn't have anything to do with someone who puts an apostrophe at the end of gonna. or who can't spell mum.


----------



## adidaswoody (Jan 8, 2016)

She told me to put it there, she said she's well into bad. punctuation?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

adidaswoody said:


> She told me to put it there, she said she's well into bad. punctuation?



if you think people have to be told where to put it then you certainly remain a virgin.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

adidaswoody said:


> Ask your mom


I reckon he'd more likely get a positive answer if he asked yours.


----------



## adidaswoody (Jan 8, 2016)

I put it where I want, nobody can tell me anything


----------



## adidaswoody (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I reckon he'd more likely get a positive answer if he asked yours.


Your boyfriend can fight his own battles he doesn't need your help


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

adidaswoody said:


> Your boyfriend can fight his own battles he doesn't need your help


whereas you need all the help you can get


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)




----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

adidaswoody said:


> I put it where I want, nobody can tell me anything


No rapists on this thread please. Take your bantz elsewhere


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

QOTH said:


> Funnily enough, I love Dickens but I can't get through Our Mutual Friend.  Hard Times is my recommendation for non fans of Dickens - *it's short*, doesn't have too many silly names and has a serious point to it..


I hate admitting this, but nowadays this is a real virtue for me. 

Last long novel I read was about four years ago.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

I wonder whether Russian readers struggle with all Dickens' silly names.


----------



## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I wonder whether Russian readers struggle with all Dickens' silly names.


Doubt it they've got loads of books to read by people who are actually worth reading.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

chuzzlewit always sounded like an insult to me. 'Look at that fucking chuzzlewit, bet he can't find his dick when he is pissing'


----------



## adidaswoody (Jan 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


>



That's exactly what I visualised when I typed it haha


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jan 8, 2016)

Oh look... I fucked your mum jokes LOL


----------



## tim (Jan 8, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> Eric Ambler is often overlooked as the creator of the modern spy novel.
> Try The Mask of Dimitrios.
> 
> John Steinbeck, some incredible work, Cannery Row being a personal favourite.




Ambler's pre war novels are the best: Mask of Dimitrios, Journey into fear, Cause for Alarm, Epitaph for a Spy; well-plotted and written from a leftish, anti-fascist perspective. They even have good-egg KGB agents (a brother and sister act who turn up to help the hero of two novels); and in others a rough diamond Kemalist police chief, Colonel Haki.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> Eric Ambler is often overlooked as the creator of the modern spy novel.


yeh. only if you ignore john buchan's 39 steps, greenmantle etc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Rutita1 said:


> Oh look... I fucked your mum jokes LOL


more like pathetic statements of desire than jokes i thought, the poor boy


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

He just needs to read a couple of books.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. only if you ignore john buchan's 39 steps, greenmantle etc.



True, Buchan's works are equally responsible, especially greenmantle and Mr Standfast but imo Ambler is overlooked.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> True, Buchan's works are equally responsible, especially greenmantle and Mr Standfast but imo Ambler is overlooked.


yeh i agree ambler underrated: but sadly not the inventor of the spy novel.

however, when i first encountered ambler in 2005/2006 it was very difficult to get a copy of his books. now they have been reissued he's reaching a wider audience.


----------



## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

BigMoaner said:


> christ that was a bore, i think i gave up.
> 
> his journalism and shorter stuff is brilliant though.



Can't really expect to be taken seriously if I sit here and tell you how brilliant it is, now you know I skipped all the sporty bits. But it is!


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh i agree ambler underrated: but sadly not the inventor of the spy novel.
> 
> however, when i first encountered ambler in 2005/2006 it was very difficult to get a copy of his books. now they have been reissued he's reaching a wider audience.



I was fortunate that the local library had nearly all his work on offer back in the olden days of the 70s.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> I refuse to read anything that wins the booker prize.


Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha was a good read


----------



## sojourner (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> One of the oldest books Ive read to the end is Walk on The Wild Side, which almost fits in to that deep south thing - I thought it was older but its from 1956, but still a definite step back in time though, and filled with that old drawl and slang - may as well be poetry


Brilliant book that - yes, it is really poetic 



Orang Utan said:


> You should read some Jack London, ska invita


Another fab recommendation



Spymaster said:


> I've never read any Shakespear. Every time I've tried I've thought it bollocks after a couple of pages.


It's not really meant to be read is it? They're plays. I gave up English Lit O Level cos they made us read it and I couldn't afford to go the plays. Shite off the page. Have seen a couple of plays as an adult and surprised myself by how much I enjoyed them.

Erm, never read War and Peace. Bought what I thought was the whole thing from charity shop and there was a big section missing 

Dickens is well alright actually, even given the propensity to use 10 words when 3 would suffice!

I've had a copy of the Quran on my shelves for years and never got round to reading it yet. I will do, one day.


----------



## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

sojourner said:


> Dickens is well alright actually, even given the propensity to use 10 words when 3 would suffice!


He was paid by the word. Not the best way to get good writing out of someone.


----------



## sojourner (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> He was paid by the word. Not the best way to get good writing out of someone.


Was he really? Well. I never knew that.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 8, 2016)

I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
The 100 best novels written in English: the full list


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list



I've only read nine, and two of them were so dull they almost induced nose bleeds. I gave up reading proper books for wrestling biographies two years ago, and I've learnt so much more as a result


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list


17


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list


25, including nearly all the kids' books, when I was a kid mostly.

It's a highly questionable list! On the road, but nothing by Burroughs. No Vonnegut.

Good to see Doris Lessing's Golden Notebook is in there. Best British novel of the 20th century, imo. Best I've read, anyway.


Like you, I read most of them years ago. I don't read much fiction nowadays.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> 25, including nearly all the kids' books, when I was a kid mostly.
> 
> It's a highly questionable list! On the road, but nothing by Burroughs. No Vonnegut.
> 
> Good to see Doris Lessing's Golden Notebook is in there. Best British novel of the 20th century, imo. Best I've read, anyway.


yeh, tarzan or one of the mars novels should have been there


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> He was paid by the word. Not the best way to get good writing out of someone.


That's not true. He got paid for each 'number' ie instalment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> He was paid by the word. Not the best way to get good writing out of someone.





Orang Utan said:


> That's not true. He got paid for each 'number' ie instalment.


he was paid for producing 32 pages of text in each installment: which is worse, really


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> That's not true. He got paid for each 'number' ie instalment.


Yeah, but did each instalment need to be a certain length?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah, but did each instalment need to be a certain length?


yes, 32 pages, like i said


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list


15


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> 15


tbh i am not sure about 83 of them, whether they should be on the list in the first place.


----------



## laptop (Jan 8, 2016)

44 AND TWO HALVES

oops capslock


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

laptop said:


> 44 AND TWO HALVES
> 
> oops capslock


TWO HALVES? you'll have to stay off the books for a couple of days then, lest you reach your limit.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> 15


49 for me. I was getting quite excited towards the end of my count, as I thought I might beat 50. Boo!

I have to say that I found several of them pretty poor. I certainly wouldn't recommend Ford Buggering Maddox Feckin Ford to anyone.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

laptop said:


> 44 AND TWO HALVES


kabbes will be along in a minute to insist that that's 45.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 8, 2016)

I would politely ask posters to confess their own literary ignorance rather than confirming mine.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2016)

I've tried on a couple of occasions to read Lord of the Rings but hated it and had to give up.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> I've tried on a couple of occasions to read Lord of the Rings but hated it and had to give up.


That seems more like wisdom than ignorance, tbh.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> I've tried on a couple of occasions to read Lord of the Rings but hated it and had to give up.


Lord of the Flies, on the other hand ....


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That seems more like wisdom than ignorance, tbh.


It's hard to confess ignorance because that would be unknown unknowns. Tolkien is a known unknown. 

DotCommunist did recently tell me to compare something with several sci fi writers I'd never even heard of. Unfortunately I can't remember who they were. But I hereby confess my ignorance. (It was during a conversation about the difference between science fiction and science fantasy).


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> I've tried on a couple of occasions to read Lord of the Rings but hated it and had to give up.


Best tip I had from my dad about that was 'skip the songs'


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Lord of the Flies, on the other hand ....


Read it at school.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Hmmm. Bit annoyed by the descriptions on the list:

*81. The Golden Notebook by Doris Lessing (1962)*

Hailed as one of the key texts of the women’s movement of the 1960s, this study of a divorced single mother’s search for personal and political identity remains a defiant, ambitious tour de force.


It's a book by a woman, so it's a 'women's movement' book, cos it's written from a woman's pov, presumably.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> DotCommunist did recently tell me to compare something with several sci fi writers I'd never even heard of.


I don't have the imagination for science fiction and read Planet of the Apes when I was about 15 and hated it. So I have to confess that since then I've never read another sci fi.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I don't have the imagination for science fiction and read Planet of the Apes when I was about 15 and hated it. So I to confess that since then I've never read another sci fi.


Vonnegut Cat's Cradle. Sort of scifi lite but totally brilliant. (And short)


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I don't have the imagination for science fiction and read Planet of the Apes when I was about 15 and hated it. So I to confess that since then I've never read another sci fi.


tell you what try a bit of space opera and ee "doc" smith's lenssman series. give triplanetary a go.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Lord of the Flies, on the other hand ....



Worst book I've ever read, and I've read manuals on microprocessor design


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 8, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> I've tried on a couple of occasions to read Lord of the Rings but hated it and had to give up.



Try the Hobbit. It's about twelve pages per film


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I don't have the imagination for science fiction


This statement makes no sense.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Worst book I've ever read, and I've read manuals on microprocessor design


Give over. It's amazing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Worst book I've ever read, and I've read manuals on microprocessor design


i've read worse than that


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> tell you what try a bit of space opera and ee "doc" smith's lenssman series. give triplanetary a go.


Just had a look. I really don't think it's for me.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Just had a look. I really don't think it's for me.


fair enough.


----------



## laptop (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That seems more like wisdom than ignorance, tbh.


Gnorance, I was about to say.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> This statement makes no sense.


Of course it does.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> It's hard to confess ignorance because that would be unknown unknowns. Tolkien is a known unknown.
> 
> DotCommunist did recently tell me to compare something with several sci fi writers I'd never even heard of. Unfortunately I can't remember who they were. But I hereby confess my ignorance. (It was during a conversation about the difference between science fiction and science fantasy).


asimov, egan, c clarke and KS Robinson vs I can't remember who I put here but brin and space opera in general


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Of course it does.


can you expand on it then please?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> asimov, egan, c clarke and KS Robinson vs I can't remember who I put here but brin and space opera in general


Only one of those I've read is Egan. Great ideas. But I struggle with the writing. The coming together of great sci-fi ideas and a great writer seems to be a rare occurrence. 

Olaf Stapledon is similar for me.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i've read worse than that


Me too: The Life of Pi.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

None of us have read these:
A Brief History of Books That Do Not Exist


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

laptop said:


> I've never read any big fat Russian novel. Too hard to keep track when there are three times as many names as characters, I've heard.



I hated The Master and Margarita, what a confusing book. Didn't do it for me at all. If i am gonna commit myself to reading 900 pages (okay well 350 for that particular one), i want to be able to follow it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Only one of those I've read is Egan. Great ideas. But I struggle with the writing. The coming together of great sci-fi ideas and a great writer seems to be a rare occurrence.
> 
> Olaf Stapledon is similar for me.


I don't make the categories up but I can see some use in the descriptor 'hard SF' which is basically very science minded extrapolations as opposed to grand space operas about uplifted apes and spiders a la Brin or Tchaikovsky (no not that one).

bit like music mags sub genre naming all the time. Five minutes ago it was steampunk this, urban fantasy that. The new weird. Its a tricky line to draw between hard sf and science fantasy but I'd say faster than light automatically makes it fantasy, time travel also.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I only have one more tip from my literary ignorance:
> I have this on the shelf but not tried it yet - from the 30s USA - Bukowski rates it very very highly as an early US classic written with the modern tightness and seeming simplicity, or something....I havent read it so dont know... I like Bukowskis attitude to writing and language so it appeals to me ... hard times in depression era LA....



It's much better than Bukowski, John Fante is the man who inspired him to write.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> can you expand on it then please?


It's quite easy to understand. He believes he has the wrong level of imagination for sci fi: that the amount of imagination he has is sub optimal in order to get the best of the genre. Either he thinks a lot of imagination is required in order to read sci fi, and he doesn't possess a lot, or he thinks only a little is required, but he has a lot. 

Or perhaps not quantity, perhaps quality; he has the wrong quality of imagination. A different quality of imagination is required in order to get the most from sci fi.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> It's quite easy to understand. He believes he has the wrong level of imagination for sci fi: that the amount of imagination he has is sub optimal in order to get the best for the genre. Either he thinks a lot of imagination is required in order to read sci fi, and he doesn't possess a lot, or he thinks only a little is required, but he has a lot.
> 
> Or perhaps not quantity, perhaps quality; he has the wrong quality of imagination. A different quality of imagination is required in order to get the most from sci fi.


that's not easy to understand!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> that's not easy to understand!


Yes it is. I can understand it.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> I bbarely read at all any more. basically only when i have no phone or wifi signal.



That's a shame .


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> It's much better than Bukowski, John Fante is the man who inspired him to write.


I'm a big fan of Bukowski, but I think I agree that Fante's better on some levels - a deeper level of honesty. You get the feeling Bukowski doesn't want to give Chinaski too hard a time or too bad a thought. Fante has no such qualms - the bits about Bandini's wanking exploits both rang very true for me (  ) and spared the character little.


----------



## Lurcio (Jan 8, 2016)

Love to get my chops into Middlemarch.
George Eliot - lovely fella (& a reputable used car salesman).


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes it is. I can understand it.


because you wrote it. i genuinely don't understand this imagination thing - you read so you can be entertained by someone else's imagination


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm a big fan of Bukowski, but I think I agree that Fante's better on some levels - a deeper level of honesty. You get the feeling Bukowski doesn't want to give Chinaski too hard a time or too bad a thought. Fante has no such qualms - the bits about Bandini's wanking exploits both rang very true for me (  ) and spared the character little.



Yes, Ask the Dust is a beautiful gem of a book. Bandini's story 'The Little Dog Laughed' and putting on his suit in the morning is so bittersweet, my favourite kind of mood for a novel. And it's really sad and brilliant too, Camilla is the typical hotblooded fire and ice kind of woman he craves so badly. I would never describe Charles Bukowski as contrived, but John Fante is a much better writer. Bukowski's essay on the reason he became a writer is thanks to John Fante, is pretty amazing. I think he says that Fante, 'writes from the gut and the heart.' Which is true. The essay is here and well worth reading

Charles Bukowski Introduction to the John Fante Novel Ask the Dust


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> Yes, Ask the Dust is a beautiful gem of a book. Bandini's story 'The Little Dog Laughed' and putting on his suit in the morning is so bittersweet, my favourite kind of mood for a novel. And it's really sad and brilliant too, Camilla is the typical hotblooded fire and ice kind of woman he craves so badly. I would never describe Charles Bukowski as contrived, but John Fante is a much better writer. Bukowski's essay on the reason he became a writer is thanks to John Fante, is pretty amazing. I think he says that Fante, 'writes from the gut and the heart.' Which is true. The essay is here and well worth reading
> 
> Charles Bukowski Introduction to the John Fante Novel Ask the Dust


Will give that a read. Credit to Bukowski, though. If he hadn't banged on about how Fante is King all the time, I'd never have read Fante.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> because you wrote it. i genuinely don't understand this imagination thing - you read so you can be entertained by someone else's imagination


Sometimes you can't imagine what they're on about, though. Too much suspension of disbelief might be required, for example. For example, I was put off Philip Pulman by the terms for fictional technology that litter the first pages of his trilogy. It was a huge turn off for me (that and the fecking daemon changing shape all the time. Give it a rest). I thought, "I'm off to read something less annoying, and frankly less like CS Lewis".

If spymaster were to say that's what he means about not possessing the correct imagination, then I'm entirely with him.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Will give that a read. Credit to Bukowski, though. If he hadn't banged on about how Fante is King all the time, I'd never have read Fante.



I heard of Fante from a work colleague. Like ska invita, i had it on my shelf for years but was so glad when i finally read it. A richly rewarding book


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list


13 - I've read very little pre-1950 novels - and the ones I have are probably on that list, apart from a load of Agatha Christie I suppose


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> It's much better than Bukowski, John Fante is the man who inspired him to write.


I've read six Bukowski - three are superb, one is okay and two were fucking awful (Tales of Ordinary Madness is the worst book I've ever read)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

D'wards said:


> I've read six Bukowski - three are superb, one is okay and two were fucking awful (Tales of Ordinary Madness is the worst book I've ever read)


Yep. That and his last one, Pulp, is also really poor, sadly.

Ham on Rye
Factotum
Post Office

all brilliant.

Hollywood
Women

Worth reading after the three above. Not as good, but enjoyable.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

D'wards said:


> I've read six Bukowski - three are superb, one is okay and two were fucking awful (Tales of Ordinary Madness is the worst book I've ever read)



Aint read that one. I've read four of the novels, some short story compilations and most of the poems - love his writing, he's hard to resist. The casual sexism doesnt bother me one bit. Women is my favourite one.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Me too: The Life of Pi.


utter shit


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

'Classics' i have no interest in reading (and have heard are bad): The Diceman, and Catch 22. Don't think I'll bother.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep. That and his last one, Pulp, is also really poor, sadly.
> 
> Ham on Rye
> Factotum
> ...



Yep - those are the three superb. Women was the okay one, Notes From a Dirty Old Man the other awful one. I'll give Hollywood a go. I think I slightly resent the fact that he seems to bed one woman after another, despite being a bit of a revolting old pervy boozer whereas I get precious little action


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> 'Classics' i have no interest in reading (and have heard are bad): The Diceman, and Catch 22. Don't think I'll bother.


I loved both of these, but I did read them when I was about 17 and less of a cynical old naus than I am now


----------



## 8115 (Jan 8, 2016)

I really think I should read Girlfriend in a coma and We need to talk about Kevin, but I have no intention of doing so.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

Novels i would recommend to read before you die - and these are quite short - would be Lolita, A Clockwork Orange, and The Picture of Dorian Gray.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

8115 said:


> I really think I should read Girlfriend in a coma and We need to talk about Kevin, but I have no intention of doing so.


Girlfriend in a Coma okay, but Hey Nostradamus better. We Need to Talk About Kevin great after the first 100 pages which is turgid shit


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Bukowski writes well but I can't get past the misogyny


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Bukowski writes well but I can't get past the misogyny


Chinaski is a sonofabitch


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Chinaski is a sonofabitch


yes, I read Post Office and there's a really nasty rape scene in it. Bukowski's one of those writers who is difficult to separate from his narrators.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> yes, I read Post Office and there's a really nasty rape scene in it. Bukowski's one of those writers who is difficult to separate from his narrators.


He did say his stuff is 70% autobiography


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> can you expand on it then please?


For me to enjoy a book/film/play etc, I have to be able to imagine that what's being portrayed has happened or could happen. That the characters are real. It needs to be plausible, so for me, sci fi, horror, and most dystopian stuff doesn't work.


----------



## ringo (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list


29


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> For me to enjoy a book/film/play etc, I have to be able to imagine that what's being portrayed has happened or could happen. That the characters are real. It needs to be plausible, so for me, sci fi, horror, and most dystopian stuff doesn't work.



Im a bit like this. Really enjoyed Truman Capote's 'In Cold Blood' during summer - it's a journalistic novel about a murder that really happened. Some call it a 'non fiction novel.'  Generally I prefer autobiographies to novels. Just ordered 'Lulu in Hollywood' - Louise Brooks writings (she was supposed to be an excellent writer and very unorthodox). Looking forward to reading it. Lulu In Hollywood: Expanded Edition: Louise Brooks: 9780816637317: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> 'Classics' i have no interest in reading (and have heard are bad): The Diceman, and Catch 22. Don't think I'll bother.



Catch 22 is great. The Diceman is horrible stupid rapey shit.


----------



## bimble (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Only one of those I've read is Egan. Great ideas. But I struggle with the writing. The coming together of great sci-fi ideas and a great writer seems to be a rare occurrence.


Doris Lessing's science fiction series (Canopus in Argos ) are this .. starting with Shikasta.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list


12


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> yes, I read Post Office and there's a really nasty rape scene in it. Bukowski's one of those writers who is difficult to separate from his narrators.


I know what you mean. I had a similar problem with Celine. I got a fair way into Journey to the end of the night, but in the end, I couldn't stomach the nasty casual racism and gave up.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> Doris Lessing's science fiction series (Canopus in Argos ) are this .. starting with Shikasta.


I keep meaning to read some of Lessing's sci-fi. The Golden Notebook is one of my favourite books ever, so I'm sure I'd like it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Thinking again about that ultimately uber-conservative top 100 list, inevitably The Catcher in the Rye is in there. I reread that the other year, and I enjoyed it. It's about a spoit rich brat, but that's ok as long as it's done well, which it is. But comparing it now to Fante's Bandini trilogy, it's pretty shallow fare really. Fante's Bandini books peel back all the layers to expose what it is really like to be an angst-ridden teenager. He never makes any top-whatever list. Lots of great stuff doesn't, which is the problem with canons - in the end, they always expose the cultural and social prejudices of whoever is choosing the list, so they're not really 'canons' at all.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

I've just had a realisation - I didn't know The Stranger and The Outsider by Camus were the same flipping book. When people have gone on about The Stranger I always say I haven't read it.
I read The Outsider so long ago and have such a bad memory I could have picked up The Stranger and read it again without realising.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

D'wards said:


> I've just had a realisation - I didn't know The Stranger and The Outsider by Camus were the same flipping book. When people have gone on about The Stranger I always say I haven't read it.
> I read The Outsider so long ago and have such a bad memory I could have picked up The Stranger and read it again without realising.




I loved that book. It puzzled and intrigued me in equal measure. I should re-read it.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 8, 2016)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I loved that book. It puzzled and intrigued me in equal measure. I should re-read it.


Mother died today. Or maybe yesterday; I can't be sure.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

Exactly. Where's, What makes Sammy run? Sammy Glick is the fucker you love to hate, and the book is a great satire that was banned for years. Never makes these lists.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Jan 8, 2016)

I'm living proof that you can get a degree in literature without ever having read Dickens or Jane Austen. And much else besides.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> Exactly. Where's, What makes Sammy run? Sammy Glick is the fucker you love to hate, and the book is a great satire that was banned for years. No one at the Guardian woulda heard of it.


Pardon?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Pardon?


I think she's replying to me.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Pardon?



Meaning: they keep these lists fairly conventional, like littlebabyjesus said.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

D'wards said:


> I've just had a realisation - I didn't know The Stranger and The Outsider by Camus were the same flipping book. When people have gone on about The Stranger I always say I haven't read it.
> I read The Outsider so long ago and have such a bad memory I could have picked up The Stranger and read it again without realising.



Camus is on my list. Hope its not too difficult.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> Meaning: they keep these lists fairly conventional, like littlebabyjesus said.


Still don't get ya


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

I got a B in A level English (back when they were hard, amiright mid-lifers!) without reading any of the books. Thanks Brodie, and yer notes.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I've never read To Kill A Mockingbird
> I've never read any Philip Roth, John Updike or William Faulkner.
> I've not read a word of Don Quixote
> I've never read any Mark Twain, Herman Melville, Ernest Hemingway or Victor Hugo.



It's the last sentence that gets me.....wtf.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Still don't get ya



I am indeed replying to littlebabyjesus.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> It's taken me about 30 years to get quarter of the way through volume 1 of War and Peace.



Thats ok..it's on the BBC now 

They probably went through it in about 45mins..lol


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> Camus is on my list. Hope its not too difficult.


Nah, piece of cake. Could do it in an afternoon. Its a good book for those who sometimes feel a bit abnormal in "normal" society too, if you know what I mean


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> I am indeed replying to littlebabyjesus.


Thats not what I didn't understand!
Never mind. I googled Sammy Glick.
Your post didn't make any sense.


----------



## xes (Jan 8, 2016)

I think I've only read 2 books. (off my own back, not counting school stuff, and I never read stuff at school either) And both the books I read were wibble.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> never read and never will read any jane austen



Same here. Seeing the various TV adaptations in the '70s and '80s put me right off.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

D'wards said:


> Nah, piece of cake. Could do it in an afternoon. Its a good book for those who sometimes feel a bit abnormal in "normal" society too, if you know what I mean



I tried but couldn't do Camus......


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

xes said:


> I think I've only read 2 books. (off my own back, not counting school stuff, and I never read stuff at school either) And both the books I read were wibble.



Worse than Hitler.

Do you not find any subjects fascinating?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 8, 2016)

ringo said:


> I love 20th Century fiction, particularly from the deep south and what generally falls into the legacy of Faulkner's The Sound And The Fury, but the only time I tried to read it about 20 years ago I found it very hard going and gave up on it. Keep meaning to try again, maybe this year



What about Nick Cave's "And the Ass Saw the Angel"? Now there's some deep south 20th century fiction for ya!


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> What about Nick Cave's "And the Ass Saw the Angel"? Now there's some deep south 20th century fiction for ya!



Sounds more like a porn film. 

Is it any good?


----------



## xes (Jan 8, 2016)

alfajobrob said:


> Worse than Hitler.


Books, maan, they trance me out. I remember once at school (aged about 12) We were supposed to be following the book, each taking turns in reading out loud. Well, I'd got bored at some point and was reading the back page, about forth coming releases and shit you could do. The teacher called my name out, and I just stood up and read "Join the Puffin club" out loud and proud. And sat back down. I wasn't being naughty or baying for attention, books just send me off on my own somewhere, to my quiet place.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2016)

D'wards said:


> I got a B in A level English (back when they were hard, amiright mid-lifers!) without reading any of the books. Thanks Brodie, and yer notes.


There are so many levels of wrong in that post.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 8, 2016)

alfajobrob said:


> Sounds more like a porn film.
> 
> Is it any good?



I really liked it. Very "southern Gothic" in places, but not so much that it made you want to fall asleep (which is what some of Faulkner's writing does to me  ).


----------



## kittyP (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I've never read To Kill A Mockingbird
> I've never read any Philip Roth, John Updike or William Faulkner.
> I've not read a word of Don Quixote
> I've never read any Mark Twain, Herman Melville, Ernest Hemingway or Victor Hugo.



I have never read any of them either apart from small excerpts from TKAMB


----------



## xes (Jan 8, 2016)

xes said:


> Books, maan, they trance me out. I remember once at school (aged about 12) We were supposed to be following the book, each taking turns in reading out loud. Well, I'd got bored at some point and was reading the back page, about forth coming releases and shit you could do. The teacher called my name out, and I just stood up and read "Join the Puffin club" out loud and proud. And sat back down. I wasn't being naughty or baying for attention, books just send me off on my own somewhere, to my quiet place.


The really fucking odd thing about this, is...I think I'd make a really good writer. 

The only thing I ever got A's in, was creative writing.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

ringo said:


> I love 20th Century fiction, particularly from the deep south and what generally falls into the legacy of Faulkner's The Sound And The Fury, but the only time I tried to read it about 20 years ago I found it very hard going and gave up on it. Keep meaning to try again, maybe this year


Suttree by the genius Cormac McCarthy might be to your taste - not a lot really happens but (I assume) it paints a good picture of life on the Tennessee river in the 50s.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I've never read any Shakespear. Every time I've tried I've thought it bollocks after a couple of pages.



I think for a majority of people Shakespeare is not really to be sat down and read alone like one would a novel. 
The language does not flow in most peoples internal reading voices. 
But read or studied as a group and/or listened to read by others, not necessarily performed on stage (although that is where it really wins) it comes alive and (IMHO) is well worth the hype.


----------



## chilango (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list



I've read about a dozen of those. Am familiar with about a dozen more. Its a shit list.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

xes said:


> The really fucking odd thing about this, is...I think I'd make a really good writer.
> 
> The only thing I ever got A's in, was creative writing.



That's probably because you have never read any decent literature?

If I was to only heard Bros and Morrisey along with state sponsored songs then yeah I would think Fuck yeah! make a great Musician!!!


----------



## xes (Jan 8, 2016)

alfajobrob said:


> That's probably because you have never read any decent literature?
> 
> If I was to only heard Bros and Morrisey along with state sponsored songs then yeah I would think Fuck yeah! make a great Musician!!!


In my head, it's because I've got no past influences, and have a new mind, untouched to unleash on the world, spawning film franchises and spin off series.  

unreality fucking rules.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list



35. Like you, most of 'em before I was 40.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

chilango said:


> I've read about a dozen of those. Am familiar with about a dozen more. Its a shit list.



20+ but only because I have too much time on my hands and no life. Agreed it's a shit list as well - a disgraceful lack of Sci Fi for a start!


----------



## chilango (Jan 8, 2016)

8115 said:


> I really think I should read Girlfriend in a coma and We need to talk about Kevin, but I have no intention of doing so.



_Girlfriend in a coma_ is great. Really great.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 8, 2016)

chilango said:


> _Girlfriend in a coma_ is great. Really great.


Maybe one for 2016 then.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> try 'the signalman'



Have you seen the short 70's TV dramatisation of The Signalman with Denholm Elliott?
One of the most chilling things I have ever seen on screen. 
My dad and I watch it nearly ever Christmas together


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

kittyP said:


> Have you seen the short 70's TV dramatisation of The Signalman with Denholm Elliott?
> One of the most chilling things I have ever seen on screen.
> My dad and I watch it nearly ever Christmas together



Is it as disturbing as...


----------



## chilango (Jan 8, 2016)

8115 said:


> Maybe one for 2016 then.



Possibly Coupland's best. Though _Generation X_ is the seminal work and I have a soft spot for _Life After God_ and_ The Gum Thief._


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

kittyP said:


> Have you seen the short 70's TV dramatisation of The Signalman with Denholm Elliott?
> One of the most chilling things I have ever seen on screen.
> My dad and I watch it nearly ever Christmas together



Oooohhh - A young Denholm Elliot!


----------



## kittyP (Jan 8, 2016)

alfajobrob said:


> Is it as disturbing as...




I belong to The Box Of Delights appreciation FB thingy! 
It's one of my favourites!

But seriously The Signalman is actual horror not weird kids stuff.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 8, 2016)

alfajobrob said:


> Oooohhh - A young Denholm Elliot!




It is an understated brilliance!


----------



## kittyP (Jan 8, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I've only read 18 off this list of 100 Best Novels (and I reckon I read most of those by the time I was 40 - I've been reading 'middlebrow' fiction for the last 15 years )
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list



Only 7 here


----------



## kittyP (Jan 8, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> That's a shame .



I don't much either.
Mental health problems and the meds that I take make for very limited concentration most of the time.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

For those that haven't read Twain you will have seen his influences.

Mark Twain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## kittyP (Jan 8, 2016)

8115 said:


> I really think I should read Girlfriend in a coma and We need to talk about Kevin, but I have no intention of doing so.



I had very mixed views on We Need To Talk About Kevin. 
I got the distinct feeling that I really wouldn't like Lionel Shriver herself as a person, dunno why. 
Also, while I thought the book was very well thought out and well written in some respects, her use of language was so over the bloody top that I found myself reaching for the dictionary every five seconds. 
That might be my own shortcomings but others have said similar.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jan 8, 2016)

kittyP said:


> I don't much either.
> Mental health problems and the meds that I take make for very limited concentration most of the time.



You should try speed reading them on drugs. I can't remember a word but no-one can tell me I haven't sat down with Tolstoy for a few weeks. I'm sure I've read most of them......


----------



## kittyP (Jan 8, 2016)

alfajobrob said:


> You should try speed reading them on drugs. I can't remember a word but no-one can tell me I haven't sat down with Tolstoy for a few weeks. I'm sure I've read most of them......



Ah see I am also (regardless of MH and meds) the sloooooowest reader ever


----------



## ringo (Jan 9, 2016)

D'wards said:


> Suttree by the genius Cormac McCarthy might be to your taste - not a lot really happens but (I assume) it paints a good picture of life on the Tennessee river in the 50s.


My favourite author


----------



## D'wards (Jan 9, 2016)

ringo said:


> My favourite author


In my top three too - although I have 4 of his to go - the Border Trilogy and the Orchard Keeper.

Blood Meridian is by far and away my favourite book - I often pick it up for a flick through and always am I taken with its beautiful stark brutality. The scene where the kid is riding with the Captain's men and first encounters the Indians, and they slaughter all but eight of them, is the most horrific in literature. Brett Easton Ellis eat your try-hard heart out


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 9, 2016)

kittyP said:


> I don't much either.
> Mental health problems and the meds that I take make for very limited concentration most of the time.



That is very sad. Quite scary that you say medication has stalled your reading.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> That is very sad. Quite scary that you say medication has stalled your reading.



It's not just medication but all together with anxiety and depression. 
I am very glad to have found the Rivers of London books as they are light and easy enough to read to allow me to read for the first time in about 4/5 years.
But it still takes me months and months to finish one of those.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 9, 2016)

kittyP said:


> It's not just medication but all together with anxiety and depression.
> I am very glad to have found the Rivers of London books as they are light and easy enough to read to allow me to read for the first time in about 4/5 years.
> But it still takes me months and months to finish one of those.



If you find the meds are interfering with your concentration for basic things like reading a book, that is quite concerning. If the meds are exacerbating the other things, speak to your doctor about it. Limited concentration for reading, driving and basic things is quite a hefty price to pay for peace of mind. I hope you dont mind me saying, but make sure you are not over-medicated.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> If you find the meds are interfering with your concentration for basic things like reading a book, that is quite concerning. If the meds are exacerbating the other things, speak to your doctor about it. Limited concentration for reading, driving and basic things is quite a hefty price to pay for peace of mind. I hope you dont mind me saying, but make sure you are not over-medicated.



I don't mind you saying at all but honestly it is a long running, on going issue. 
My meds are a problem but they have also helped a lot. 
I will PM so as not to derail this thread x


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 9, 2016)

JimW said:


> A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich is mercifully short.


It's all about spoons.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 9, 2016)

kittyP said:


> I don't mind you saying at all but honestly it is a long running, on going issue.
> My meds are a problem but they have also helped a lot.
> I will PM so as not to derail this thread x



Sure thing, that was my last post on it anyway. Back to thread X


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 9, 2016)

Reading  Flann O'Brien's books this year. He's revered as Ireland's greatest satirist (by pretty much anyone good in this country!) and wrote At Swim-Two Birds and The Third Policeman. He wrote some short stories too, some of which I have read: dark and funny as hell, religion-mocking, secular and brilliant. There's a compendium of his works in Easons (our main bookstore), for €20 i have had my eye on...went in the other day and it was gone. Will order it in.

If folks like Irish satire, i also recommend The Ginger Man, by JP Donleavy. Its so odd as its like the adventures of Henry Chinaski at Trinity College in the 1940's. A reluctant law student and waster who sits in the pub all day, chats up women and wanders around Dublin doing nothing. Lots of gambling, unpaid landladies, barefaced lying and chaos. Set in a superconservative Ireland where morals are turned on their heads. Wildly entertaining but cuts deep into you at every level. JP Donleavy is Irish American and this is his masterpiece (he's STILL living off its royalties in a big house in Westmeath). My friends partners Dad (a bit of a scoundrel himself, with great style) recommended it to me

The Ginger Man: Amazon.co.uk: J. P. Donleavy: 9780349108759: Books


----------



## ringo (Jan 9, 2016)

D'wards said:


> In my top three too - although I have 4 of his to go - the Border Trilogy and the Orchard Keeper.
> 
> Blood Meridian is by far and away my favourite book - I often pick it up for a flick through and always am I taken with its beautiful stark brutality.



The Border Trilogy is a bit lighter, a signal of his move towards main stream acceptance which I can understand but wish he hadn't done. 

I collect Mccarthy first editions


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> Reading  Flann O'Brien's books this year. He's revered as Ireland's greatest satirist (by pretty much anyone good in this country!) and wrote At Swim-Two Birds and The Third Policeman. He wrote some short stories too, some of which I have read: dark and funny as hell, religion-mocking, secular and brilliant. There's a compendium of his works in Easons (our main bookstore), for €20 i have had my eye on...went in the other day and it was gone. Will order it in.
> 
> If folks like Irish satire, i also recommend The Ginger Man, by JP Donleavy. Its so odd as its like the adventures of Henry Chinaski at Trinity College in the 1940's. A reluctant law student and waster who sits in the pub all day, chats up women and wanders around Dublin doing nothing. Lots of gambling, unpaid landladies, barefaced lying and chaos. Set in a superconservative Ireland where morals are turned on their heads. Wildly entertaining but cuts deep into you at every level. JP Donleavy is Irish American and this is his masterpiece (he's STILL living off its royalties in a big house in Westmeath). My friends partners Dad (a bit of a scoundrel himself, with great style) recommended it to me
> 
> The Ginger Man: Amazon.co.uk: J. P. Donleavy: 9780349108759: Books


thought swift ireland's greatest satirist


----------



## rubbershoes (Jan 9, 2016)

I've never read any of the sports biographies my MIL gives me for Xmas.

 I'm just not that interested in Freddie Flintoff, David Beckham etc


----------



## bimble (Jan 9, 2016)

rubbershoes said:


> I've never read any of the sports biographies my MIL gives me for Xmas.
> 
> I'm just not that interested in Freddie Flintoff, David Beckham etc


I got given a book about hermits for Christmas and am not sure whether to take it as an insult or what.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2016)

rubbershoes said:


> I've never read any of the sports biographies my MIL gives me for Xmas.
> 
> I'm just not that interested in Freddie Flintoff, David Beckham etc


A mate of mine gave me a copy of Alex Ferguson's autobiography one xmas as a joke (I'm a Chelsea supporter).

It's published in big print and simple language so the average United supporter can understand it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> Reading  Flann O'Brien's books this year. He's revered as Ireland's greatest satirist (by pretty much anyone good in this country!) and wrote At Swim-Two Birds and The Third Policeman. He wrote some short stories too, some of which I have read: dark and funny as hell, religion-mocking, secular and brilliant. There's a compendium of his works in Easons (our main bookstore), for €20 i have had my eye on...went in the other day and it was gone. Will order it in.
> 
> If folks like Irish satire, i also recommend The Ginger Man, by JP Donleavy. Its so odd as its like the adventures of Henry Chinaski at Trinity College in the 1940's. A reluctant law student and waster who sits in the pub all day, chats up women and wanders around Dublin doing nothing. Lots of gambling, unpaid landladies, barefaced lying and chaos. Set in a superconservative Ireland where morals are turned on their heads. Wildly entertaining but cuts deep into you at every level. JP Donleavy is Irish American and this is his masterpiece (he's STILL living off its royalties in a big house in Westmeath). My friends partners Dad (a bit of a scoundrel himself, with great style) recommended it to me
> 
> The Ginger Man: Amazon.co.uk: J. P. Donleavy: 9780349108759: Books


or the sainted oscar


----------



## laptop (Jan 9, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> thought swift ireland's greatest satirist


Definitely; and didn't see O'Brien as (primarily) a satirist. Surrealist of a very special kind, yes...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2016)

bimble said:


> I got given a book about hermits for Christmas and am not sure whether to take it as an insult or what.


good to see you decisive as ever


----------



## bimble (Jan 9, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> good to see you decisive as ever


Well, at least i'm not a fan of Crowley's necrophilia poems. 

Yea, thou art dead. Thy buttocks now
Are swan-soft, and thou sweatest not;
And hast a strange desire begot
In me, to lick thy bloody brow;

To gnaw thy hollow cheeks, and pull
Thy lustful tongue from out its sheath;
To wallow in the bowels of death,
And rip thy belly, and fill full

My hands with all putridities;
To chew thy dainty testicles;
...


----------



## rubbershoes (Jan 9, 2016)

bimble said:


> Well, at least i'm not a fan of Crowley's necrophilia poems.
> 
> Yea, thou art dead. Thy buttocks now
> Are swan-soft, and thou sweatest not;
> ...



A typical night in for many urbanites


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2016)

bimble said:


> Well, at least i'm not a fan of Crowley's necrophilia poems.
> 
> Yea, thou art dead. Thy buttocks now
> Are swan-soft, and thou sweatest not;
> ...


don't suppose you like rimbaud or baudelaire or verlaine or mallarmé or dowson or symons either. don't give a fuck what someone who so lauds the execrable austen thinks.


----------



## bimble (Jan 9, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> don't give a fuck what someone who so lauds the execrable austen thinks.


Call me old fashioned but I prefer my literary criticism from people who have actually read a word of what they are calling 'execrable'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2016)

oh: don't imagine you've the stomach for lautreamont either, you puling wretch


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2016)

bimble said:


> Call me old fashioned but I prefer my literary criticism from people who have actually read a word of what they are calling 'execrable'.


because... i saud i hadn't read austen, not that i hadn't read about austen.


----------



## bimble (Jan 9, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> oh: don't imagine you've the stomach for lautreamont either, you puling wretch


I loved story of O, the story of the Eye, not averse to 'rude' books one bit, you silly man. Just don't like shit poetry much.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2016)

bimble said:


> I loved story of O, the story of the Eye, not averse to 'rude' books one bit, you silly man. Just don't like shit poetry much.


i would have more confidence in your opinion if you had the wherewithal to say why you disliked the poetry rather than describing it simply as shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2016)

bimble said:


> I loved story of O, the story of the Eye, not averse to 'rude' books one bit, you silly man. Just don't like shit poetry much.


oh: & you're clearly unfamiliar with lautreamont


----------



## D'wards (Jan 9, 2016)

rubbershoes said:


> I've never read any of the sports biographies my MIL gives me for Xmas.
> 
> I'm just not that interested in Freddie Flintoff, David Beckham etc


There's a great sporting book called Playground of the Gods, where an English journalist travelled the world for a year training with the best sportsmen in their field, and spent a bit of time with them; football in Brazil, running in Kenya, boxing with Roy Jones jr etc. Its a whole lot better than the usual turgid sports book guff


----------



## D'wards (Jan 9, 2016)

ringo said:


> I collect Mccarthy first editions


At work we do a lottery bonus ball competition - winnings ranging fro m £25-£130. I always think if I win i'll spend it on a collectable book. How much are you looking at for McCarthy collectables?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 9, 2016)

D'wards said:


> In my top three too - although I have 4 of his to go - the Border Trilogy and the Orchard Keeper.
> 
> Blood Meridian is by far and away my favourite book - I often pick it up for a flick through and always am I taken with its beautiful stark brutality. The scene where the kid is riding with the Captain's men and first encounters the Indians, and they slaughter all but eight of them, is the most horrific in literature. Brett Easton Ellis eat your try-hard heart out



I'm afraid that "American Psycho" made me laugh.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 9, 2016)

D'wards said:


> Yep - those are the three superb. Women was the okay one, Notes From a Dirty Old Man the other awful one. I'll give Hollywood a go. I think I slightly resent the fact that he seems to bed one woman after another, despite being a bit of a revolting old pervy boozer whereas I get precious little action


He had no success at all until well into his 40s. There may be hope yet.  One day you too could become a revolting old pervy boozer who beds one woman after another. 

Hollywood may equally irritate you as it's also from his successful years. It does contain some good stuff about the making of the execrable Italian film Tales of Ordinary Madness, which is one of the worst films I've ever seen (I was a bit of a Bukowski completist), and certainly Chinaski at least agrees.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 9, 2016)

bimble said:


> I loved story of O, the story of the Eye, not averse to 'rude' books one bit, you silly man. Just don't like shit poetry much.



The Story of the Eye, by Georges Bataille is great. Written in 1929 i think. Was turned onto it by Bjork (Venus as a Boy is inspired by it)

 Text is still here - worth a read, its a novella
http://ps28.squat.net/bataille_story_of_eye.pdf


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 9, 2016)

D'wards said:


> There's a great sporting book called Playground of the Gods, where an English journalist travelled the world for a year training with the best sportsmen in their field, and spent a bit of time with them; football in Brazil, running in Kenya, boxing with Roy Jones jr etc. Its a whole lot better than the usual turgid sports book guff



There's another sporting book im trying to think of....boxing essays by Budd Schulberg - same guy who wrote the highly impressive 'What makes Sammy run?' I wish more people had read it!!! heard about it on reruns of the Dick Cavett show where Bette Davis in around 1970 (when it was re-released having been banned for years) said it was the only book that really told the truth about the business of moviemaking in Hollywood.

The author, Budd Schulberg is sometimes called 'America's greatest unknown novellist.' He was a Hollywood screenwriter who wrote a few books and also the script of 'On the Waterfront.' After reading Sammy,  I got big novel by him called 'The Disenchanted' to read on holiday in Biarritz....it was loosely based on FScott Fitzgeralds life...not that that matters, Schulberg could write about the weather and it'd be great. So there i am lazing on a beach and before me the sea...while reading about a writer in the 1930s and his glittering life in....Biarritz! It was a great novel, and i dont like novels much


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 11, 2016)

Cheesypoof said:


> Reading  Flann O'Brien's books this year. He's revered as Ireland's greatest satirist (by pretty much anyone good in this country!) and wrote At Swim-Two Birds and The Third Policeman. He wrote some short stories too, some of which I have read: dark and funny as hell, religion-mocking, secular and brilliant. There's a compendium of his works in Easons (our main bookstore), for €20 i have had my eye on...went in the other day and it was gone. Will order it in.
> 
> If folks like Irish satire, i also recommend The Ginger Man, by JP Donleavy. Its so odd as its like the adventures of Henry Chinaski at Trinity College in the 1940's. A reluctant law student and waster who sits in the pub all day, chats up women and wanders around Dublin doing nothing. Lots of gambling, unpaid landladies, barefaced lying and chaos. Set in a superconservative Ireland where morals are turned on their heads. Wildly entertaining but cuts deep into you at every level. JP Donleavy is Irish American and this is his masterpiece (he's STILL living off its royalties in a big house in Westmeath). My friends partners Dad (a bit of a scoundrel himself, with great style) recommended it to me
> 
> The Ginger Man: Amazon.co.uk: J. P. Donleavy: 9780349108759: Books



At Swim Two Birds - that's the one FOB I can't finish. Might go back to it one day but I found it to be a bit of a head wrecker. Maybe that's what he intended


----------



## sojourner (Jan 11, 2016)

25 off this list. And it is indeed mostly a shit list, with some very odd choices.

The 100 best novels written in English: the full list


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 11, 2016)

sojourner said:


> 25 off this list. And it is indeed mostly a shit list, with some very odd choices.
> 
> The 100 best novels written in English: the full list


22 and theres some in there I would use for kindling before I read it.

Totally wrong choice of Jack London novel. Its either Iron Heel or Sea Wolf as his best. Everyone knows that.


----------



## Epona (Jan 11, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> 22 and theres some in there I would use for kindling before I read it.
> 
> Totally wrong choice of Jack London novel. Its either Iron Heel or Sea Wolf as his best. Everyone knows that.



I don't understand that choice either, I never really got along with Call of the Wild.  I know it is hailed as his greatest writing, but I prefer pretty much anything else he wrote.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 11, 2016)

Epona said:


> I don't understand that choice either, I never really got along with Call of the Wild.  I know it is hailed as his greatest writing, but I prefer pretty much anything else he wrote.


aye. I am probably a bit biased on Iron Heel cos its possibly the most nakedly political thing I've read from him. Other than 'The Scab' of course! but thats a poem


----------



## Epona (Jan 11, 2016)

I'm honestly surprised that there's no Borroughs in that list, he's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm surprised that with a number of American authors of roughly the same era in the list, he gets nary a mention.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2016)

Epona said:


> I'm honestly surprised that there's no Borroughs in that list, he's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm surprised that with a number of American authors of roughly the same era in the list, he gets nary a mention.


yeh edgar rice should be in there


----------



## Epona (Jan 11, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh edgar rice should be in there



Sorry, should have specified I meant William Burroughs - I actually thought I'd typed it out, but there you go


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 11, 2016)

Epona said:


> I'm honestly surprised that there's no Borroughs in that list.


He's a bit dry; they don't have dry Boroughs doon there.


----------



## sojourner (Jan 12, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Totally wrong choice of Jack London novel. Its either Iron Heel or Sea Wolf as his best. Everyone knows that.


That's not the same fella that wrote The People of the Abyss, is it?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 12, 2016)

sojourner said:


> That's not the same fella that wrote The People of the Abyss, is it?


it is he! I've not read much of his non fiction tbh


----------



## D'wards (Jan 12, 2016)

The BBC Big Read list from 2003 - the nation's favourite novels (cos we are far from anti-populist here eh)
43/200

1. *The Lord of the Rings*, JRR Tolkien
2. *Pride and Prejudice*, Jane Austen
3. *His Dark Materials*, Philip Pullman
4. *The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy*, Douglas Adams
5. *Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire*, JK Rowling
6. *To Kill a Mockingbird*, Harper Lee
7. *Winnie the Pooh*, AA Milne
8. *Nineteen Eighty-Four*, George Orwell
9. *The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe*, CS Lewis
10. *Jane Eyre*, Charlotte Brontë
11. *Catch-22*, Joseph Heller
12. *Wuthering Heights*, Emily Brontë
13. *Birdsong*, Sebastian Faulks
14. *Rebecca*, Daphne du Maurier
15. *The Catcher in the Rye*, JD Salinger
16. *The Wind in the Willows*, Kenneth Grahame
17. *Great Expectations*, Charles Dickens
18. *Little Women*, Louisa May Alcott
19. *Captain Corelli's Mandolin*, Louis de Bernieres
20. *War and Peace*, Leo Tolstoy
21. *Gone with the Wind*, Margaret Mitchell
22. *Harry Potter And The Philosopher's Stone*, JK Rowling
23. *Harry Potter And The Chamber Of Secrets*, JK Rowling
24. *Harry Potter And The Prisoner Of Azkaban*, JK Rowling
25. *The Hobbit*, JRR Tolkien
26. *Tess Of The D'Urbervilles*, Thomas Hardy
27. *Middlemarch*, George Eliot
28. *A Prayer For Owen Meany*, John Irving
29. *The Grapes Of Wrath*, John Steinbeck
30. *Alice's Adventures In Wonderland*, Lewis Carroll
31. *The Story Of Tracy Beaker*, Jacqueline Wilson
32. *One Hundred Years Of Solitude*, Gabriel García Márquez
33. *The Pillars Of The Earth*, Ken Follett
34. *David Copperfield*, Charles Dickens
35. *Charlie And The Chocolate Factory*, Roald Dahl
36. *Treasure Island*, Robert Louis Stevenson
37. *A Town Like Alice*, Nevil Shute
38. *Persuasion*, Jane Austen
39. *Dune*, Frank Herbert
40. *Emma*, Jane Austen
41. *Anne Of Green Gables*, LM Montgomery
42. *Watership Down*, Richard Adams
43. *The Great Gatsby*, F Scott Fitzgerald
44. *The Count Of Monte Cristo*, Alexandre Dumas
45. *Brideshead Revisited*, Evelyn Waugh
46. *Animal Farm*, George Orwell
47. *A Christmas Carol*, Charles Dickens
48. *Far From The Madding Crowd*, Thomas Hardy
49. *Goodnight Mister Tom*, Michelle Magorian
50. *The Shell Seekers*, Rosamunde Pilcher
 
51. *The Secret Garden*, Frances Hodgson Burnett
52. *Of Mice And Men*, John Steinbeck
53. *The Stand*, Stephen King
54. *Anna Karenina*, Leo Tolstoy
55. *A Suitable Boy*, Vikram Seth
56. *The BFG*, Roald Dahl
57. *Swallows And Amazons*, Arthur Ransome
58. *Black Beauty*, Anna Sewell
59. *Artemis Fowl*, Eoin Colfer
60. *Crime And Punishment*, Fyodor Dostoyevsky
61. *Noughts And Crosses*, Malorie Blackman
62. *Memoirs Of A Geisha*, Arthur Golden
63. *A Tale Of Two Cities*, Charles Dickens
64. *The Thorn Birds*, Colleen McCollough
65. *Mort*, Terry Pratchett
66. *The Magic Faraway Tree*, Enid Blyton
67. *The Magus*, John Fowles
68. *Good Omens*, Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman
69. *Guards! Guards!*, Terry Pratchett
70. *Lord Of The Flies*, William Golding
71. *Perfume*, Patrick Süskind
72. *The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists*, Robert Tressell
73. *Night Watch*, Terry Pratchett
74. *Matilda*, Roald Dahl
75. *Bridget Jones's Diary*, Helen Fielding
76. *The Secret History*, Donna Tartt
77. *The Woman In White*, Wilkie Collins
78. *Ulysses*, James Joyce
79. *Bleak House*, Charles Dickens
80. *Double Act*, Jacqueline Wilson
81. *The Twits*, Roald Dahl
82. *I Capture The Castle*, Dodie Smith
83. *Holes*, Louis Sachar
84. *Gormenghast*, Mervyn Peake
85. *The God Of Small Things*, Arundhati Roy
86. *Vicky Angel*, Jacqueline Wilson
87. *Brave New World*, Aldous Huxley
88. *Cold Comfort Farm*, Stella Gibbons
89. *Magician*, Raymond E Feist
90. *On The Road*, Jack Kerouac
91. *The Godfather*, Mario Puzo
92. *The Clan Of The Cave Bear*, Jean M Auel
93. *The Colour Of Magic*, Terry Pratchett
94. *The Alchemist*, Paulo Coelho
95. *Katherine*, Anya Seton
96. *Kane And Abel*, Jeffrey Archer
97. *Love In The Time Of Cholera*, Gabriel García Márquez
98. *Girls In Love*, Jacqueline Wilson
99. *The Princess Diaries*, Meg Cabot
100. *Midnight's Children*, Salman Rushdie


----------



## D'wards (Jan 12, 2016)

101. *Three Men In A Boat*, Jerome K. Jerome
102. *Small Gods*, Terry Pratchett
103. *The Beach*, Alex Garland
104. *Dracula*, Bram Stoker
105. *Point Blanc*, Anthony Horowitz
106. *The Pickwick Papers*, Charles Dickens
107. *Stormbreaker*, Anthony Horowitz
108. *The Wasp Factory*, Iain Banks
109. *The Day Of The Jackal*, Frederick Forsyth
110. *The Illustrated Mum*, Jacqueline Wilson
111. *Jude The Obscure*, Thomas Hardy
112. *The Secret Diary Of Adrian Mole Aged 13¾*, Sue Townsend
113. *The Cruel Sea*, Nicholas Monsarrat
114. *Les Misérables*, Victor Hugo
115. *The Mayor Of Casterbridge*, Thomas Hardy
116. *The Dare Game*, Jacqueline Wilson
117. *Bad Girls*, Jacqueline Wilson
118. *The Picture Of Dorian Gray*, Oscar Wilde
119. *Shogun*, James Clavell
120. *The Day Of The Triffids*, John Wyndham
121. *Lola Rose*, Jacqueline Wilson
122. *Vanity Fair*, William Makepeace Thackeray
123. *The Forsyte Saga*, John Galsworthy
124. *House Of Leaves*, Mark Z. Danielewski
125. *The Poisonwood Bible*, Barbara Kingsolver
126. *Reaper Man*, Terry Pratchett
127. *Angus, Thongs And Full-Frontal Snogging*, Louise Rennison
128. *The Hound Of The Baskervilles*, Arthur Conan Doyle
129. *Possession*, A. S. Byatt
130. *The Master And Margarita*, Mikhail Bulgakov
131. *The Handmaid's Tale*, Margaret Atwood
132. *Danny The Champion Of The World*, Roald Dahl
133. *East Of Eden*, John Steinbeck
134. *George's Marvellous Medicine*, Roald Dahl
135. *Wyrd Sisters*, Terry Pratchett
136. *The Color Purple*, Alice Walker
137. *Hogfather*, Terry Pratchett
138. *The Thirty-Nine Steps*, John Buchan
139. *Girls In Tears*, Jacqueline Wilson
140. *Sleepovers*, Jacqueline Wilson
141. *All Quiet On The Western Front*, Erich Maria Remarque
142. *Behind The Scenes At The Museum*, Kate Atkinson
143. *High Fidelity*, Nick Hornby
144. *It*, Stephen King
145. *James And The Giant Peach*, Roald Dahl
146. *The Green Mile*, Stephen King
147. *Papillon*, Henri Charriere
148. *Men At Arms*, Terry Pratchett
149. *Master And Commander*, Patrick O'Brian
150. *Skeleton Key*, Anthony Horowitz
151. *Soul Music*, Terry Pratchett
152. *Thief Of Time*, Terry Pratchett
153. *The Fifth Elephant*, Terry Pratchett
154. *Atonement*, Ian McEwan
155. *Secrets*, Jacqueline Wilson
156. *The Silver Sword*, Ian Serraillier
157. *One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest*, Ken Kesey
158. *Heart Of Darkness*, Joseph Conrad
159. *Kim*, Rudyard Kipling
160. *Cross Stitch*, Diana Gabaldon
161. *Moby Dick*, Herman Melville
162. *River God*, Wilbur Smith
163. *Sunset Song*, Lewis Grassic Gibbon
164. *The Shipping News*, Annie Proulx
165. *The World According To Garp*, John Irving
166. *Lorna Doone*, R. D. Blackmore
167. *Girls Out Late*, Jacqueline Wilson
168. *The Far Pavilions*, M. M. Kaye
169. *The Witches*, Roald Dahl
170. *Charlotte's Web*, E. B. White
171. *Frankenstein*, Mary Shelley
172. *They Used To Play On Grass*, Terry Venables and Gordon Williams
173. *The Old Man And The Sea*, Ernest Hemingway
174. *The Name Of The Rose*, Umberto Eco
175. *Sophie's World*, Jostein Gaarder
176. *Dustbin Baby*, Jacqueline Wilson
177. *Fantastic Mr Fox*, Roald Dahl
178. *Lolita*, Vladimir Nabokov
179. *Jonathan Livingstone Seagull*, Richard Bach
180. *The Little Prince*, Antoine De Saint-Exupery
181. *The Suitcase Kid*, Jacqueline Wilson
182. *Oliver Twist*, Charles Dickens
183. *The Power Of One*, Bryce Courtenay
184. *Silas Marner*, George Eliot
185. *American Psycho*, Bret Easton Ellis
186. *The Diary Of A Nobody*, George and Weedon Grossmith
187. *Trainspotting*, Irvine Welsh
188. *Goosebumps*, R. L. Stine
189. *Heidi*, Johanna Spyri
190. *Sons And Lovers*, D. H. LawrenceLife of Lawrence
191. *The Unbearable Lightness of Being*, Milan Kundera
192. *Man And Boy*, Tony Parsons
193. *The Truth*, Terry Pratchett
194. *The War Of The Worlds*, H. G. Wells
195. *The Horse Whisperer*, Nicholas Evans
196. *A Fine Balance*, Rohinton Mistry
197. *Witches Abroad*, Terry Pratchett
198. *The Once And Future King*, T. H. White
199. *The Very Hungry Caterpillar*, Eric Carle
200. *Flowers In The Attic*, Virginia Andrews


----------



## ringo (Jan 12, 2016)

74\200.  That's a lot of Pratchett. The pillars of the earth lol. I finished it, but he could have shaved several hundred pages off without losing anything.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 12, 2016)

enough of this. this thread is for ignorance, not boasting how many books on a list you have read


----------



## D'wards (Jan 12, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> enough of this. this thread is for ignorance, not boasting how many books on a list you have read


Ahhh, I wanted to boast how many books on a list I had read


----------



## D'wards (Jan 12, 2016)

Has anyone else read The House of Leaves? Surprised to see it on that list, because although its a phenomenal book, I never hear anyone talking about it.
I tried with Danielowski's follow up - unpenetrable. He took the weirdness that made House of Leaves great but forgot to add anything else


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 12, 2016)

Lists dont matter (especially from the BBC or The Guardian..lol) but there's two kids books on the Beebs list of which i heartily approve. These are Jacqueline Wilson's (kids) books  _The story of Tracy Beaker,_ and _Girls in love. _Tracy Beaker is about a tempermental little girl who is in a kids home and always in trouble. But she is good at writing, and befriends a writer who comes to visit the kids. This book is targeted at 10 - 12 year olds but was so good i sent a copy  to my (writer) mate who also loved it. _Girls in Love_ is a more grown up book for young teenagers, but also very good. There is a depth and insight in Jacqueline Wilson's books which is truly powerful.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 12, 2016)

Yeah, she writes for kids who are not served well by children's fiction in general - an antidote to the legion of kids' books that feature big-toothed boarding-school-educated Henrys and Marys who have awfully big adventures and lashings of ginger beer.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jan 12, 2016)

As far as 'To Kill a Mockingbird' goes, read it years ago and found it a trudge but thought it was well written. When 'Go see a watchman' was released last year, i toyed with the idea of reading it....then came to my senses and thought 'I dont want to read this, it sounds boring and i didnt really like the original either.' So i left it.


----------



## sojourner (Jan 13, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> it is he! I've not read much of his non fiction tbh


Ahhh, see, I've only read that one. Think you'd like it actually DotCommunist .


----------



## imposs1904 (Jan 13, 2016)

I've never finished Confederacy of Dunces
. . . but I have read both Rick Holden and Chic Charnley's autobiographies.


----------



## ringo (Jan 13, 2016)

imposs1904 said:


> I've never finished Confederacy of Dunces



Hated it, finished it but found it very pedestrian and nothing original. Really couldn't see why it was considered so funny or such an almost lost classic.


----------



## ringo (Nov 2, 2016)

ringo said:


> I love 20th Century fiction, particularly from the deep south and what generally falls into the legacy of Faulkner's The Sound And The Fury, but the only time I tried to read it about 20 years ago I found it very hard going and gave up on it. Keep meaning to try again, maybe this year



I'm giving this another go and really enjoying it. I can see why I found it hard going before, but this time I'm enjoying the style. Phew


----------



## Sirena (Nov 2, 2016)

Books I have never finished

*War and Peace* - I got it as a school prize and -though I tried and tried - I never got past Anna Scherer's Soiree, the first chapter
*Under The Greenwood Tree* - When I was growing up, we only had a few books in the house and this was one of them.  I tried and tried but it was so-o-o boring....
*The Lord of the Rings* - I did the main part of the work and read the first 980 pages but it just wouldn't end and I faded away with 20 pages to go.....
*Pride and Prejudice* - Our English teacher loved it and had us all read chapters together in class.  It meant nothing to me, though.  A few years ago, I was in Tooting Library and I picked up a copy and wondered 'Am I ready for this yet?'  Ten pages in and I decided I still wasn't...


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2016)

Sirena said:


> Pride and Prejudice


never had any time for it either. Bourgois regency women and their marraige prospects YAWN. So much more going on at the time than tedious upper middle class society. Although there is a pride and prejudice with zombies now which might liven it up a bit


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2016)

Sirena said:


> Books I have never finished
> 
> *War and Peace* - I got it as a school prize and -though I tried and tried - I never got past Anna Scherer's Soiree, the first chapter
> *Under The Greenwood Tree* - When I was growing up, we only had a few books in the house and this was one of them.  I tried and tried but it was so-o-o boring....
> ...


pride and prejudice is on my never bothered pile


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2016)

tonights viewing sorted


----------



## Santino (Nov 2, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> never had any time for it either. Bourgois regency women and their marraige prospects YAWN. So much more going on at the time than tedious upper middle class society. Although there is a pride and prejudice with zombies now which might liven it up a bit


You read books about fictional aristocrats in space.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2016)

I think you mean SPAAAAAAAACE. And they have magic as well. Prana-bindu


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## not-bono-ever (Nov 2, 2016)

2 fucking things. I have probably mentioned this before.

1) In my literature finals, I thumped out a barnstorming  essay on The Invisible Man based on the film I saw & the telly series with that bloke out of the man from UNKLE ,david mcallum , as I had never bothered reading the book. a decade later I was told the question was actually about_* Invisible Man*_ , the Ralph Ellison book. Not the same think I can only imagine, as I had read neither.

2)Same Finals, I banged out another masterpiece on Moby Dick based only on the blurb shite on the back cover of the penguin classics book & half the too long Gregory peck filum I once fell asleep to. I cannot recall what the essay was about

I blame the drugs


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## Sea Star (Nov 2, 2016)

ska invita said:


> I find it impossible to read anything written before about 1940.... Ive never read a book to the end from before 1940 - in most cases Ive stopped on the first page.


I'm almost the opposite. Unless it's science fiction.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2016)

not-bono-ever said:


> 2 fucking things. I have probably mentioned this before.
> 
> 1) In my literature finals, I thumped out a barnstorming  essay on The Invisible Man based on the film I saw & the telly series with that bloke out of the man from UNKLE ,david mcallum , as I had never bothered reading the book. a decade later I was told the question was actually about_* Invisible Man*_ , the Ralph Ellison book. Not the same think I can only imagine, as I had read neither.
> 
> ...


yeh. but how did you do?


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## not-bono-ever (Nov 2, 2016)

I got a degree out of it surprisingly.


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## boohoo (Nov 2, 2016)

I need to read some Dickens and some Shakespeare. Ignorant of both but I could do with improving my knowledge for work.


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