# "49 up" on tonight at 9pm



## marty21 (Sep 15, 2005)

the latest installment of this documentary service that has followed the lives of people since they were 7(up) can't believe that it's got to 49 up, i think i first caught it when it was 28up.....i'm hoping it's as fascinating as the other "ups"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1569502,00.html 

on tonight at 9pm on itv, directed by michael apted who has directed them from the start...


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## nuffsaid (Sep 15, 2005)

Saw the last one of these, and read that column in yesterdays Guardian.

I think this is going to make me feel very, very   

As the Guardian article said it will basically show that while society has greatly changed (particularly the expansion of the middle-classes), since the first one of these progs (1964), essentially those that had private/public school educations went on to very good jobs, effectively running the country. But more saddening is the gradual wearing down of ones dreams and desires to make a difference or do something unique. Went it comes down to it they all just want to have a nice family and live a comfortable life - and so we all shuffle off this mortal coil with a whimper, perpetutauting the whole thing...  

I'm still gonna watch it though.


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## mangakitten (Sep 15, 2005)

I watched a couple of these with my mum when I was younger... have been meaning to watch this tonight, though I don't know if I'll have time...


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## lizzieloo (Sep 15, 2005)

I saw the last one and was shocked when I saw the trailer for this that 7 years had elapsed.


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## exleper (Sep 15, 2005)

The guardian article sums it up rather nicely.


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## marty21 (Sep 15, 2005)

i remember seeing neil a few years ago, he walked past me in hackney, he was a councillor there for a few years.....he was the most interesting character imho


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## davesgcr (Sep 15, 2005)

Been looking forward to this prog - not just all week - but for the last 7 years.

Fascinating study !


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## marty21 (Sep 15, 2005)

just starting now


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## Masseuse (Sep 15, 2005)

Didn't one of them commit suicide a while back?  The nice shy odd man.


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## marty21 (Sep 15, 2005)

Masseuse said:
			
		

> Didn't one of them commit suicide a while back?  The nice shy odd man.




not sure which one that was

didn't realise this was a two parter, enjoyed the first one, it's somehow uplifting and depressing at the same time


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## pilchardman (Sep 15, 2005)

I first caught 21 Up.  It's been a fascinating ride.  I hope Neil's OK.


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## lizzieloo (Sep 15, 2005)

pilchardman said:
			
		

> I first caught 21 Up.  It's been a fascinating ride.  I hope Neil's OK.



I won't be able to watch it next week to know


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## marty21 (Sep 16, 2005)

will be interesting to see how it has panned out for neil, probably the most tragic of the stories....that is on next thursday


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## Wookey (Sep 17, 2005)

God it's good isn't it? Can't wait for next week's, I've been wanting to hear what happened to Neil for the last seven years!

The argumentative one was very interesting, she seemed very antagonistic towards the documentary maker. Didn't want to answer personal questions?!


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## marty21 (Sep 17, 2005)

Wookey said:
			
		

> God it's good isn't it? Can't wait for next week's, I've been wanting to hear what happened to Neil for the last seven years!
> 
> The argumentative one was very interesting, she seemed very antagonistic towards the documentary maker. Didn't want to answer personal questions?!



and played into the hands of the film makers...argument makes good telly...


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## madzone (Sep 22, 2005)

Edit : wrong fucking prgramme - never give my husband the remote


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2005)

just watched the second part...very interesting, neil is now living in cumbria and seems happier, trying to win a seat on the county council...


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## nuffsaid (Sep 22, 2005)

marty21 said:
			
		

> just watched the second part...very interesting, neil is now living in cumbria and seems happier, trying to win a seat on the county council...



How on earth do you go from homeless bloke in Scotland to being a Councillor    I wish they'd explained such a dramatic transition for Neil. I was very glad for him, but seemed a bit glossed over.

I really wanted to punch that kid who ended up as a QC and wanted to go into politics, I was thinking how on earth can your background have any idea of hardship in society and therefore be allowed anywhere near power.....then I saw what he does in Bulgaria and felt a bit awful   

In all in did make it look like life is a lot about merely finding peace with yourself and those around you. I find that depressing, as the dreams seem lost.


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## chooch (Sep 22, 2005)

Aye. Great. 

Trying to decide whether John or Charles is the more prize cunt.


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## pilchardman (Sep 22, 2005)

nuffsaid said:
			
		

> How on earth do you go from homeless bloke in Scotland to being a Councillor


It isn't such a huge transition.  He's still on a very low income, and still seems very nervy and, so some extent, troubled.

However he looks much better, more at peace, than he has looked since he was 7.  I'm glad for him.  But I'd say his troubles are far from behind him.  Where will he be in 7 years?  He doesn't seem to stay in one place for long.


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## pilchardman (Sep 22, 2005)

Oh, and the three toffs on the sofa: neck shot.


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2005)

nuffsaid said:
			
		

> How on earth do you go from homeless bloke in Scotland to being a Councillor    I wish they'd explained such a dramatic transition for Neil. I was very glad for him, but seemed a bit glossed over.



he was a councillor in 42 up in hackney for the lib dems, i saw him once, with that familar shuffling walking style, i recognised the shuffle before i noticed that it was him (if that makes sense)


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2005)

pilchardman said:
			
		

> Oh, and the three toffs on the sofa: neck shot.



they were always the most annoying...


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## pilchardman (Sep 22, 2005)

marty21 said:
			
		

> they were always the most annoying...


Although I liked the line: "I have a girlfriend; I don't think much of her, though".


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## nuffsaid (Sep 22, 2005)

pilchardman said:
			
		

> It isn't such a huge transition.  He's still on a very low income, and still seems very nervy and, so some extent, troubled.



Yeah but when you see how he was in Scotland, how did he (why did he?) find a room to rent in London (I mean how did he travel, money, where did he spend his first night  back in London), how did he maintain rent and bills. What is the selection process for councillors, what would his cv look like, etc, etc, etc, etc, seems a massive leap....


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2005)

nuffsaid said:
			
		

> Yeah but when you see how he was in Scotland, how did he (why did he?) find a room to rent in London (I mean how did he travel, money, where did he spend his first night  back in London), how did he maintain rent and bills. What is the selection process for councillors, what would his cv look like, etc, etc, etc, etc, seems a massive leap....



he only had a 15 minute slot in the programme...neil probably could carry a whole show, then you'd get to know all those details..


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## nuffsaid (Sep 22, 2005)

marty21 said:
			
		

> he only had a 15 minute slot in the programme...neil probably could carry a whole show, then you'd get to know all those details..




True enough.   

It's just that I'm always aware that we are all about 3 or 4 bad decisions, circumstances, events away from being out of job, home, relationships and end up homeless (I find this VERY scary), and am amazed that anyone can come back from that. I suppose I'm glad that Neil has shown that it can be done.


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## pilchardman (Sep 22, 2005)

nuffsaid said:
			
		

> Yeah but when you see how he was in Scotland, how did he (why did he?) find a room to rent in London (I mean how did he travel, money, where did he spend his first night  back in London), how did he maintain rent and bills. What is the selection process for councillors, what would his cv look like, etc, etc, etc, etc, seems a massive leap....


He's on JSA, so gets housing benefit to cover rent.

He seems to travel by walking and cycling.  

Selection process: join a local party.  Council elections are usually fought by activists who don't take a step back when volunteers are sought.  He's a earnest and committed sort; I would have thought he'd be a shoe-in for at least an unwinnable seat.  

District Cllrs get very little remuneration.  Most rely on other incomes.  It just so happens his other income is JSA. 

His CV would be mostly voluntary work in charity shops, and blanks where he was wandering and homeless.

But I see what you mean, his story is the most compelling.


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2005)

nuffsaid said:
			
		

> True enough.
> 
> It's just that I'm always aware that we are all about 3 or 4 bad decisions, circumstances, events away from being out of job, home, relationships and end up homeless (I find this VERY scary), and am amazed that anyone can come back from that. I suppose I'm glad that Neil has shown that it can be done.



it is scary,

he always seems to be less decisions away from that than most people


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## nuffsaid (Sep 22, 2005)

I wonder if the programme will help his prospects of being voted in. Gives him publicity. If he was a local candidate in my area and had seen the prog. I'd really feel for the guy and probably be very happy for him to represent me, very earnest and genuinely wants a better society. I'd just have a few misgivings about the xtian thing though. But in perspective seems its more a result of his own soul-searching than merely closed minded indoctrination.


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## Ms Ordinary (Sep 22, 2005)

nuffsaid said:
			
		

> Yeah but when you see how he was in Scotland, how did he (why did he?) find a room to rent in London (I mean how did he travel, money, where did he spend his first night  back in London), how did he maintain rent and bills. What is the selection process for councillors, what would his cv look like, etc, etc, etc, etc, seems a massive leap....



Bruce (the big-eared kid who taught maths in Bangladesh, then the East End & now at a private school in the home counties) contacted him after 35up & gave him a place to stay in London for a bit.


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## pilchardman (Sep 22, 2005)

Ms Ordinary said:
			
		

> Bruce (the big-eared kid who taught maths in Bangladesh, then the East End & now at a private school in the home counties) contacted him after 35up & gave him a place to stay in London for a bit.


That's right, I'd forgotten that.  It touched on that tonight.


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## nuffsaid (Sep 22, 2005)

Ms Ordinary said:
			
		

> Bruce (the big-eared kid who taught maths in Bangladesh, then the East End & now at a private school in the home counties) contacted him after 35up & gave him a place to stay in London for a bit.




Oh yeah they did say that..............just shows you how much difference a small gesture of kindness can make to a persons life.

Excellent programme, so full of insights into life. Shows up all the other reality TV stuff as complete and utter tosh!


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## pilchardman (Sep 22, 2005)

nuffsaid said:
			
		

> just shows you how much difference a small gesture of kindness can make to a persons life.


I have always relied upon the kindness of strangers.


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2005)

i was quite moved by the woman who worked in the library in bethnal green, and her rant against the council there....


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## Gridarmy (Sep 23, 2005)

marty21 said:
			
		

> i was quite moved by the woman who worked in the library in bethnal green, and her rant against the council there....


Me too. Though she had not aged well, had she. Ouch. 

What this always makes me wonder is how much the participants are still judged on what they were like at 7. After all, these were the most inconic moments and they must stick when someone finds out you were 'the posh annoying one' or the 'spacey scouser' or 'the sad boarding school boy'. Wonder if this kind of thing and Neil's on screen problems could count against rather than for him in a council election.


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## davesgcr (Sep 23, 2005)

What struck me was that most of them had grafted away .....


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## Batboy (Sep 23, 2005)

nuffsaid said:
			
		

> How on earth do you go from homeless bloke in Scotland to being a Councillor    I wish they'd explained such a dramatic transition for Neil. I was very glad for him, but seemed a bit glossed over.
> 
> I really wanted to punch that kid who ended up as a QC and wanted to go into politics, I was thinking how on earth can your background have any idea of hardship in society and therefore be allowed anywhere near power.....then I saw what he does in Bulgaria and felt a bit awful
> 
> In all in did make it look like life is a lot about merely finding peace with yourself and those around you. I find that depressing, as the dreams seem lost.




I have to say I found the programme quite uplifting and intriguing.

Neil certainly won me over simply in the way he has managed to overcome what was clearly deep depression and on the cusp of severe mental health issues, he seeemed so much more confident.

The posh kids particularly the guy with the Bulgarian links mirrored Neils Journey in some way but from a completely different persepctive. From coming out as the worse kind of greed monger to that of working and providing for those much less fortunate in a foreign land earned my respect in the end. I think what this shows is how people can change and redeem themselves at different stages of their lives.

Both of these characters showed huge compassion and a caring side - that was uplifting to watch.

This is a real reality show..unlike BB of course which is utter crap..


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## marty21 (Sep 24, 2005)

Gridarmy said:
			
		

> Me too. Though she had not aged well, had she. Ouch.
> 
> What this always makes me wonder is how much the participants are still judged on what they were like at 7. After all, these were the most inconic moments and they must stick when someone finds out you were 'the posh annoying one' or the 'spacey scouser' or 'the sad boarding school boy'. Wonder if this kind of thing and Neil's on screen problems could count against rather than for him in a council election.



i do wonder how their lifes are influenced by the fact that they are in the programme, whether they would have done certain things, made certian decisions, if they hadn't be part of a long-running tv social experiment...has being part of a programme which monitors their lives, actually changed their lives  and amde them act in away that would look better for the tv audience, or look worse, or look more interesting, etc


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## Batboy (Sep 24, 2005)

marty21 said:
			
		

> i do wonder how their lifes are influenced by the fact that they are in the programme, whether they would have done certain things, made certian decisions, if they hadn't be part of a long-running tv social experiment...has being part of a programme which monitors their lives, actually changed their lives  and amde them act in away that would look better for the tv audience, or look worse, or look more interesting, etc



i considered that and there probably is some diluted influence but not in the way of say BB where they all paly up to their 15 minutes of virtual fame.

The years in between I would have thought place them enough out of the spotlight to steer their way through life as the rest of us do.

Of course the posh priveleged kids may well of been influenced by watching the programme and having their consciences pricked...


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## wtfftw (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm gutted that I missed the first part. I dont think there was enough publicity that it was next installment time.
Oh well. I've got vague recollections of watching the earlier ones with my parents and then seeing the whole thing up to whereever they were in 98 in sociology GCSE and psychology A level.


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## marty21 (Sep 24, 2005)

they are bound to repeat it...maybe on itv2 or itv3...


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## Stobart Stopper (Sep 25, 2005)

pilchardman said:
			
		

> That's right, I'd forgotten that.  It touched on that tonight.


Oh shit, I don't suppose anyone recorded it did they? I completely forgot about this.


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## Wookey (Sep 25, 2005)

bollox - missed part 2


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## paulhackett (May 8, 2012)

el bumpo..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2012/may/07/56-up-its-like-having-another-family

Starting on 14 May, (in 3 parts). Records..


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2012)

Wow. Already? I wonder how they all are.  Especially Neil.


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## butchersapron (May 8, 2012)

The lib-dem will either be suicidal or very happy at the misery he has brought to society. Revenge.


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2012)

I've just seen that Neil stood for the Lib Dems in 2010.


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## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> I've just seen that Neil stood for the Lib Dems in 2010.


 
Was he the Scouser who dropped out of society for a bit? And then joined the Lib Dems and gave up on society altogether?


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2012)

That's the one.


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## aqua (May 8, 2012)

Does anyone know if the previous episodes can be found anywhere online? I'd quite like to see it from the beginning.


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## paulhackett (May 8, 2012)

aqua said:


> Does anyone know if the previous episodes can be found anywhere online? I'd quite like to see it from the beginning.


 
The person who uploaded this, seems to have uploaded a lot more (not checked fully)


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## aqua (May 8, 2012)

cheers


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## marty21 (May 8, 2012)

paulhackett said:


> el bumpo..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2012/may/07/56-up-its-like-having-another-family
> 
> Starting on 14 May, (in 3 parts). Records..


 
massive bump - 7 years already! 



danny la rouge said:


> I've just seen that Neil stood for the Lib Dems in 2010.


 He was a councillor in Hackney for a while


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## marty21 (May 8, 2012)

it's called 56 up now isn't it - the return of the show always makes me feel old, I think I watched it from 28 up onwards


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## ChrisD (May 8, 2012)

I'm same age as that lot... have watched it from the beginning cos of that and then wondered where I'd fit in... thank goodness there's no video evidence of me over the years.. still pictures are depressing enough.

Does society value "achievers" more than "mere plodders" like me?


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## spliff (May 8, 2012)

paulhackett said:


> The person who uploaded this, seems to have uploaded a lot more (not checked fully)


The comments under that youtube video made me chuckle.


> can i have 2 hours of my life back. Jesus christ the only thing i hate more than british people is being forced to watch them talk about their boring fucking lives
> 
> apar351   3 weeks ago


and the response from the guy who uploaded it


> Getting your 2 hours back wont help you. You need to have the willpower to either a) not watch a documentary about people you find abhorrent in the first place, or b) if you start watching and feel nauseous,you need the strength in character to switch off and maybe go outside. As you fail at both, I would say that you would only use the 2 hours to further inflict punishment on yourself, through your apparent self loathing.So, no, you may not have your 2 hours back, now go away, you cretin
> 
> paulshaw27   in reply to apar351


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## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2012)

marty21 said:


> it's called 56 up now isn't it - the return of the show always makes me feel old, I think I watched it from 28 up onwards


 
I foresee a problem if it carries on until 98 up. Won't they want to do a special programme two years later on everybody who reaches 100 years of age? This will necessarily spoil the whole premise of the series as a snapshot of life every seven years. Gutting.


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2012)

aqua said:


> Does anyone know if the previous episodes can be found anywhere online? I'd quite like to see it from the beginning.


They always do a lot of recapping in the show.  They also often show the previous series.


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> I foresee a problem if it carries on until 98 up. Won't they want to do a special programme two years later on everybody who reaches 100 years of age? This will necessarily spoil the whole premise of the series as a snapshot of life every seven years. Gutting.


My daughter said she is going to wait until they all die and buy the boxed set.


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## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> My daughter said she is going to wait until they all die and buy the boxed set.


 
Special edition, the Mortician's Cut.


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## marty21 (May 8, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> I foresee a problem if it carries on until 98 up. Won't they want to do a special programme two years later on everybody who reaches 100 years of age? This will necessarily spoil the whole premise of the series as a snapshot of life every seven years. Gutting.


 I'm looking forward to 84 up when they all finally retire


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2012)

It starts on Monday, 14 May 2012, 9:00PM - 10:00PM, btw.

http://www.itv.com/presscentre/56up/ep01week20/default.html


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## goldenecitrone (May 8, 2012)

marty21 said:


> I'm looking forward to 84 up when they all finally retire


 
You mean 105 up.


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## quimcunx (May 8, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> It starts on Monday, 14 May 2012, 9:00PM - 10:00PM, btw.
> 
> http://www.itv.com/presscentre/56up/ep01week20/default.html


 
No wonder I couldn't find it on any of the BBC channels. 

This must be the best quality programme ITV has ever done.


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> This must be the best quality programme ITV has ever done.


That'd be Corrie.


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## quimcunx (May 8, 2012)




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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2012)

Don't you flick your eyes at me, missy.


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## kalidarkone (May 13, 2012)

I'm really excited about this! I first watched 7 up when I was about 14 and loved it. I love Tony the taxi driver


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## clicker (May 13, 2012)

kalidarkone said:


> I'm really excited about this! I first watched 7 up when I was about 14 and loved it. I love Tony the taxi driver


 
same here....isnt he the would be jockey? love the girl who wanted to work in woolies....i think i read somewhere that someone who dropped out last time is back in....which must be the solicitor? Also read the guy in the caravan is doing good....for such a largish group of people they do seem on the whole 'happy-ish' which is cockle warming.


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## butchersapron (May 13, 2012)

clicker said:


> same here....isnt he the would be jockey? love the girl who wanted to work in woolies....i think i read somewhere that someone who dropped out last time is back in....which must be the solicitor? Also read the guy in the caravan is doing good....for such a largish group of people they do seem on the whole 'happy-ish' which is cockle warming.


Doing good? He's a lib-dem counillor.


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## clicker (May 13, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Doing good? He's a lib-dem counillor.


 
shit he isnt is he...i liked him too.


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## danny la rouge (May 14, 2012)

This is on tonight.


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## paulhackett (May 14, 2012)

El bumpo..

This is on in 20 minutes


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## marty21 (May 14, 2012)

Enjoying it as usual - a rare ITV quality programme, makes me feel ancient though, I think I've been watching it since it was 28up!


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## scifisam (May 14, 2012)

marty21 said:


> Enjoying it as usual - a rare ITV quality programme, makes me feel ancient though, I think I've been watching it since it was 28up!


 
Me too, but I was a lot younger than you when I started watching it.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (May 14, 2012)

Am recording it to watch later


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## moomoo (May 14, 2012)

I remembered Neil.  His story makes me sad.


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## Mrs Magpie (May 14, 2012)

moomoo said:


> I remembered Neil. His story makes me sad.


He's got it right in that true happiness is with friends.


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## clicker (May 14, 2012)

I think the guy who ended up in Australia struck me as so close to his child self.....scared of not fitting in etc.....glad he had a good marriage and a heap of grandkids to love him....and I bet the old dears in the retirement park all mother him too.


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## danny la rouge (May 14, 2012)

He seemed a nice granddad.  Very comfortable in that role.

I laughed at the guy who came back to promote his band.  Fair enough, why not?  But he didn't really have much else to add, did he?  Although my kids (who did end up watching) were sympathetic to his non appearance all these years and were pissed off on his behalf at the press.


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## Me76 (May 16, 2012)

Neil seemed very frustrated and not at all happy in his own skin. It made me quite sad.


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## Divisive Cotton (May 16, 2012)

moomoo said:


> I remembered Neil. His story makes me sad.


 
You watched him and thought, Christ this person hasn't had any happiness in his life


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## clicker (May 16, 2012)

Me76 said:


> Neil seemed very frustrated and not at all happy in his own skin. It made me quite sad.


 
Yes he had flashes of seeming joy, when the cameras were not directly on him maybe....chatting to locals etc, but there always seemed to be an urgency to get away , even from them. I think he is very astute, he can read the show very well, but I hope he finds some peace in his future. Interesting he joined the church, although he was almost brutally honest in only having done it to find a 'role', same as being a councillor was due to the lack of paid employment elsewhere. He was such a bright eyed bubbly kid. It made me sad too.


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## Part 2 (May 17, 2012)

I was quite disappointed with it overall.

I suppose it was good to see the first woman who hadn't managed much at school had progressed gradually and was in a good place. I felt sad about the aussie bloke who admitted to still feel he wasn't very confident although he obvioualy has a supportive family. The last fella promoting his band I didn't like and he came across as a bit of a tosser imo.

I was at a mental health conference a few years ago and Neil was there. He was really nervous and I watched a few people throughout the day go up to talk to him. I'd no idea if they were approaching him because they knew him or because he was on the telly but when he spoke about people thinking they knew what his life was like I did get the idea it might be the latter.

Looking forward to seeing the other fella from the kids home next week.


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## clicker (May 21, 2012)

bumpity bump....second part tonight.


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## youngian (May 21, 2012)

Spent ages trying to find this on the ITV player. You would of thought they would be really proud to flag it up on their homepage, but no its that knobhead Keith Lemon instead.

Hope Neil is enjoying his work as a lay preacher, being a Lib-Dem activist can't do much for depression.

I will be interested to see what Tony is up to as he usually having a crack at something different in between the Knowledge; running a pub, bit part actor, jockey. Whats more he doesn't care if it doesn't work out. Unlike Neil he proabably had that Albert Camus in the back of his cab.


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## butchersapron (May 21, 2012)

I'm not watching this, will catch up when all done. But the point of the original series was to show how class effects our passage through life - not to learn how individuals had done. It showed in the 70s version that it pretty much decided your fate. That was at the height of social mobility. The State now agrees that social mobility is dead. Is anyone here going to talk about that sort of thing?


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## purenarcotic (May 21, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I'm not watching this, will catch up when all done. But the point of the original series was to show how class effects our passage through life - not to learn how individuals had done. It showed in the 70s version that it pretty much decided your fate. That was at the height of social mobility. The State now agrees that social mobility is dead. Is anyone here going to talk about that sort of thing?


 
I suppose it doesn't directly tackle that, but indirectly I think it does.  By seeing how the people have done I think you do see that the class they've been born into has largely dictated their standard of life as adults.  But I agree, it doesn't seem to be doing a lot to question how right that is on a direct, outspoken level. But then this is the first time I've watched this, so I don't know how much it did that previously (if at all).


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## youngian (May 21, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I'm not watching this, will catch up when all done. But the point of the original series was to show how class effects our passage through life - not to learn how individuals had done. It showed in the 70s version that it pretty much decided your fate. That was at the height of social mobility. The State now agrees that social mobility is dead. Is anyone here going to talk about that sort of thing?


 
That's a bit of sociological pretension to get the programme commissioned when television had loftier ambitions. But its nothing resembling a scientific sample to draw any conclusions about the nature of class.
So no I don't feel shallow by taking an interest in them as individual personalities. If anything many of them have climbed the ladder which statistics show isn't happening for a vast swathe of people. Also would be interesing to know how appearing in this world famous documentary has made to their lives, which could make them atypical.


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## butchersapron (May 21, 2012)

youngian said:


> That's a bit of sociological pretension to get the programme commissioned when television had loftier ambitions. But its nothing resembling a scientific sample to draw any conclusions about the nature of class.
> So no I don't feel shallow by taking an interest in them as individual personalities.


It's what Aptsed the main director has maintained and argued throughout was the point, not just a passing ruse - that's pretty insulting to the the people who kicked off and ran the thing from the start.

I wouldn't dare to call it scientific nor to call you shallow - i just wondered how this ascept of their journey was now presented in modern terms. Whether it had become about the individuals or whether the class aspect has disappeared or appeared in other forms.


----------



## Part 2 (May 21, 2012)

I'm finding it a bit boring tbh


----------



## Espresso (May 21, 2012)

What I think is interesting is that all of them - this week and last week - were twits and/or gits at 21. Right enough, him last week with his "I only came back to do this programme to promote my music" might still be one or the other, but for the most part, most of us are at our twittiest and gittiest at that age, because we think we absolutely know it all and anyone who doubts our immense wisdom and overall cooly grown up and modern knowledge is a foooool, an oldy and a feeble old sod.
I know I thought I had all the answers then, whereas a few more years of geting smacked round the chops by life has taught me a bit of sense.


----------



## clicker (May 21, 2012)

The class aspect was mentioned tonight by the woman who was originally perhaps earmarked as the one to fly high.... she didnt follow the academic path carved out for her at age 7, and has maintained a cynically healthy regard for the programme, describing herself as having a strange loyalty to it.

I think so far most of the individuals have not 'turned out' as they were expected to, if indeed such an expectation ever existed, based purely on their birth right and I agree it probably did. They have bettered themselves through hard work and succeeded in the main by their own hand. Illness being the great leveller  has been a barrier that has proven the most ungiving.

I think it has become a journey of individuals now on the whole, I've been watching it forever, but for those coming to it recently the class slant wouldn't be so relevant. If anything I think the assumptions it may have hoped to prove are being misproven.


----------



## butchersapron (May 21, 2012)

clicker said:


> The class aspect was mentioned tonight by the woman who was originally perhaps earmarked as the one to fly high.... she didnt follow the academic path carved out for her at age 7, and has maintained a cynically healthy regard for the programme, describing herself as having a strange loyalty to it.
> 
> I think so far most of the individuals have not 'turned out' as they were expected to, if indeed such an expectation ever existed, based purely on their birth right and I agree it probably did. They have bettered themselves through hard work and succeeded in the main by their own hand. Illness being the great leveller has been a barrier that has proven the most ungiving.
> 
> I think it has become a journey of individuals now on the whole, I've been watching it forever, but for those coming to it recently the class slant wouldn't be so relevant. If anything I think the assumptions it may have hoped to prove are being misproven.


Ta. Thanks for the reply


----------



## Part 2 (May 21, 2012)

I'd really like to see the 7up and 14up 2000 programs but I can't seem to find them anywhere.


----------



## metalguru (May 21, 2012)

Enjoyed the second part a lot more. I think the people were more engaging or interesting this week.


----------



## marty21 (May 21, 2012)

Chip Barm said:


> I'd really like to see the 7up and 14up 2000 programs but I can't seem to find them anywhere.


most of them are on youtube


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 21, 2012)

I'm recording it as Secret Millionaire looks interesting


----------



## danny la rouge (May 22, 2012)

clicker said:


> The class aspect was mentioned tonight by the woman who was originally perhaps earmarked as the one to fly high.... she didnt follow the academic path carved out for her at age 7, and has maintained a cynically healthy regard for the programme, describing herself as having a strange loyalty to it.
> 
> I think so far most of the individuals have not 'turned out' as they were expected to, if indeed such an expectation ever existed, based purely on their birth right and I agree it probably did. They have bettered themselves through hard work and succeeded in the main by their own hand. Illness being the great leveller has been a barrier that has proven the most ungiving.
> 
> I think it has become a journey of individuals now on the whole, I've been watching it forever, but for those coming to it recently the class slant wouldn't be so relevant. If anything I think the assumptions it may have hoped to prove are being misproven.


It was interesting the take that that woman had (I forget her name...maybe Suzy?).  She was from landed gentry, and went to boarding school.  She suggested that the programme had set out to show the class differences, but thought it had failed in her case and that the attempt was in any case "wrong".  (I think she meant morally).  However, although she hasn't had an exulted career path (she was a bereavement councillor), we weren't told the career of her husband.  And they definitely seem affluent.  I seem to remember from previous programmes that her husband was a solicitor in Bath.  

I think she was wrong to think the programme's hypothesis on class was wrong in her case.  We weren't given long on her view, but I suspect she has skewed ideas about what "successful" means.

Another one featured last night was Symon.  He was the mixed-race guy who was brought up in care; his single mother suffered from depression.  He has been a forklift truck driver in warehouses for many years.  He's clearly intelligent, and at one time refers to a hope at one time he (or others on his behalf) had that he may become an accountant.  He says his perceptions of office jobs put him off that path.  He puts a lot of energy into being a - clearly very good on the evidence of those he's helped - foster parent. 

It isn't possible to do a statistically sound study of the kind someone earlier in the thread longed for.  A programme following 1,000 children would be a very different type of thing.  As it is we have a programme following 14 people.  What we'd hope for is interesting qualitative results.  And on the whole I think that is what we get.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 22, 2012)

I'd like to add on a more shallow note, that the posh woman has aged very well.  She now reminds me of Jenny Agutter.


----------



## metalguru (May 22, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> I'd like to add on a more shallow note, that the posh woman has aged very well. She now reminds me of Jenny Agutter.


 
And she seemed to have shaken off the depression that you could see hanging over her in the years 7 - 28.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 22, 2012)

metalguru said:


> And she seemed to have shaken off the depression that you could see hanging over her in the years 7 - 28.


Yes.  The chain-smoking and looking at the floor.


----------



## youngian (May 22, 2012)

The short length is jarring and it would of fitted modern TV perfectly for having a companion website and having extra versions like Big Brother or that Essex crap.
But it is as if ITV treats this as a burden that it can't quite shake off. And an embarrasing reminder that the channel hasn't always churned out endless shite.


----------



## London_Calling (May 22, 2012)

I agree with that. Was left with a sense that, given the wealth of personal material and social change, it could be so very much better. It must be quite difficult to make it this bland.


----------



## butchersapron (May 22, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> It isn't possible to do a statistically sound study of the kind someone earlier in the thread longed for. A programme following 1,000 children would be a very different type of thing. As it is we have a programme following 14 people. What we'd hope for is interesting qualitative results. And on the whole I think that is what we get.


 
Just to clarify on this again - i wasn't hoping the program did this, i was simply wondering given the findings of the actual longitudinal cohort studies that upward social mobility has ground to a halt and the emphasis placed on this class-investigation of the program at the start and during the post-war height of social mobility whether this aspect was still being focused on in the most recent films or had been quietly dropped - and if the latter what this says about both todays society and the people making the series today.


----------



## London_Calling (May 22, 2012)

It seems to have lost direction - we're in the world of 'and this, dear new wife, is where i went school /uni. My! That was a long time ago'.


----------



## youngian (May 22, 2012)

And is Apted the best man for the job, yes he has an emotional investment but in interviews he almost makes it sound like a burden that takes him away from plush Hollywood career. He is a fine feature film director which requires traits that would do not make you a natrual interviewer. And I get the feeling he's rubbed a few of the participants up the wrong way.
I'm sure there are plenty of producers and interviewers (Louis Theroux springs to mind) who have watched this with great admiration and passion through their lives who could make a better programme and take it off ITV's moribund hands.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Just to clarify on this again


No, I wasn't meaning you. It was someone in an exchange with you.

eta: Youngian, who said "it's nothing like a scientific sample".  No, it isn't, but it shouldn't be.


----------



## paulhackett (May 22, 2012)

youngian said:


> And is Apted the best man for the job, yes he has an emotional investment but in interviews he almost makes it sound like a burden that takes him away from plush Hollywood career. He is a fine feature film director which requires traits that would do not make you a natrual interviewer. And I get the feeling he's rubbed a few of the participants up the wrong way.
> I'm sure there are plenty of producers and interviewers (Louis Theroux springs to mind) who have watched this with great admiration and passion through their lives who could make a better programme and take it off ITV's moribund hands.


 
There'd be no irony after today's comments by Nick Clegg, in having Louis Theroux (friend of Nick Clegg), taking over and focussing the programme on social mobility.. Apted is fine, I think, inasmuch as there's bound to be friction between the subjects and the programme (makers, interviewer). Apted will have a team of researchers feeding the questions in anyway..

I would have preferred if there was a summary programme at the start of the series, an overview, and more time for each person. A couple of extra hours of film at least. If it's bland, then maybe that's a boon? It's simply showing people's lives as they are. They can't all have had obviously dramatic lives?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 22, 2012)

paulhackett said:


> There'd be no irony after today's comments by Nick Clegg, in having Louis Theroux (friend of Nick Clegg), taking over and focussing the programme on social mobility.. Apted is fine, I think, inasmuch as there's bound to be friction between the subjects and the programme (makers, interviewer). Apted will have a team of researchers feeding the questions in anyway..
> 
> I would have preferred if there was a summary programme at the start of the series, an overview, and more time for each person. A couple of extra hours of film at least. If it's bland, then maybe that's a boon? It's simply showing people's lives as they are. They can't all have had obviously dramatic lives?


Agree with that.  Furthermore, the Yorkshire farmboy who is a friend of the ex-chainsmoker made the point quite well that the programme isn't so much about creating a narrative of their individual lives, but about a longitudinal study of _lives_. 

What would someone else say about you or me to the age we are now?  The things we might (understandably) think are missed out given the time constraints might not be what others see as relevant anyway.


----------



## Schmetterling (May 22, 2012)

The beer probably didn't help but I get very confused at times as to who is who.  I could do with the names and years in the screen all the time.


----------



## youngian (May 22, 2012)

I wonder what Neil was writing that no-one was interested in reading, perhaps its the new Lib-Dem manifesto.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 22, 2012)

youngian said:


> I wonder what Neil was writing that no-one was interested in reading, perhaps its the new Lib-Dem manifesto.


Masturbation, apparently.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 23, 2012)

youngian said:


> I'm sure there are plenty of producers and interviewers (Louis Theroux springs to mind) who have watched this with great admiration and passion through their lives who could make a better programme and take it off ITV's moribund hands.


Fuck off! Louis fucking Theroux isn't worthy to lick the shit from Apted's shoes. A shallow stupid prick of the first order.



> in having Louis Theroux (friend of Nick Clegg),


I didn't think I could have a lower opinion of Theroux, but this has done it. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Epona (May 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Just to clarify on this again - i wasn't hoping the program did this, i was simply wondering given the findings of the actual longitudinal cohort studies that upward social mobility has ground to a halt and the emphasis placed on this class-investigation of the program at the start and during the post-war height of social mobility whether this aspect was still being focused on in the most recent films or had been quietly dropped - and if the latter what this says about both todays society and the people making the series today.


 
Sorry if I've misunderstood your point - but I don't think there's ever been much social upward mobility - sure there have been a few success stories of "humble folk making good", but that is only a few people highlighted to give the rest of us drones hope - this country's primary industries have just switched from mining, docks, and car manufacture to what is seen as the more white-collar occupation of call centres, low level office admin etc. which they tell us are 'middle class' so many of us have apparently risen a notch on the scale, but those are just the new factories and assembly lines, there's nothing about working for minimum wage in a call centre or office that is in any way more socially upwardly mobile than more traditional blue-collar industries.

This upward mobility certainly isn't happening right now - I can imagine it may have been touted as a possibility in the era when this program was started, but I question whether there ever was any sort of heydey ever - sure we've seen periods of time with more job security, better pay, less unemployment, and better collective bargaining rights for those in the lower socio-economic brackets than exists at the moment, but there's never been that much in the way of working class Joes being able to rise through the ranks and be truly upwardly mobile, it's largely just a myth, telling us that if we work hard we can all end up wealthy, and I call bollocks. So I suspect that aspect has been quietly dropped, because to focus on it would show that it's largely bollocks - I know you know that, but yeah there's little focus on that now in terms of what we're seeing in the programme.


----------



## alsoknownas (May 28, 2012)

Yes, it's a bit less profound now, as you suspect that the overall shape of their lives has been broadly revealed now.  Still, I can't see myself ever wanting to miss it (_"Oooh, it's 105up tonight on the holi-visor.  Oh, they're only doing one episode, and a shortened one at that..."_).
As for it being boring, well I find that strangely re-assuring - at least they're not trying to spice it up for effect.  I like that it's this weird unique slice of life.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 28, 2012)

Epona said:


> sure there have been a few success stories of "humble folk making good"


Have there, though?  I'm not sure who that would be.  There's Sue the working class Londoner, but she's an administrator, not a barrister or Guardian section head.


----------



## Espresso (May 28, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Have there, though? I'm not sure who that would be. There's Sue the working class Londoner, but she's an administrator, not a barrister or Guardian section head.


 
What about the man from last week whose name escapes me who grew up on a farm in Yorkshire and when he was 7 he wanted to "learn about the moon and that"? He went to Oxford and ended up with a PhD and went to work in America as an academic.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 28, 2012)

Espresso said:


> What about the man from last week whose name escapes me who grew up on a farm in Yorkshire and when he was 7 he wanted to "learn about the moon and that"? He went to Oxford and ended up with a PhD and went to work in America as an academic.


He went to public school and Oxford.


----------



## Espresso (May 28, 2012)

Did he get a scholarship to public school? Or did he come from money?


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2012)

Well thats two weeks in a row that viewers have been confronted by women who weren't afraid to complain loudly about what the harm the political/economic situation has done, and to point at politicians. Last weeks was ruined in propaganda terms by the fact that after talking about the disability cuts that would affect her, she had a go at the non-disabled benefits 'scroungers'. This weeks didn't suffer from that sort of thing, but her story was probably more powerful in previous series when cuts were eliminating her job working with kids. But she got to make a point that all the political parties had moved to the right, a complaint which does not get enough attention on the telly.


----------



## marty21 (May 28, 2012)

that barrister one - said he knew two ministers and knew them when he was a kid - I'm thinking Andrew Lansley maybe one, he is 56, or Andrew Mitchell - also 56 or Oliver letwin, also 56 or Dominic Grieve, also 56

actually I haven't a clue who there are, there are more 56 year old ministers than I thought there would be


----------



## Thora (May 28, 2012)

FFS - "there isn't a class system because Mother had to get a job to pay for me to go to a public school and eventually become a QC"


----------



## Epona (May 29, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> Have there, though? I'm not sure who that would be. There's Sue the working class Londoner, but she's an administrator, not a barrister or Guardian section head.


 
I wasn't talking about people on the show - I was saying that there may have been a tiny handful _in the UK_ over the last 56 years, but it's not a general upward socially mobile trend and I think the programme illustrated that fairly well - I just think you misunderstood that I was talking wider than the show itself.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 29, 2012)

OK, I see now.


----------



## butchersapron (May 29, 2012)

Espresso said:


> Did he get a scholarship to public school? Or did he come from money?


How does either situation effect things?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 29, 2012)

Espresso said:


> Did he get a scholarship to public school? Or did he come from money?


Nick? I don't remember a scholarship being mentioned. Only that he was brought up on a farm in the Dales, going to the local primary school, then off to boarding school, before going to Oxford.

The point is that only 7% of people in England go to private school (that's including public schools, private schools, boarding and non boarding).  Now look at the make up of the British elite.  That 7% is vastly over represented.  70% of government ministers since the war have been privately educated.  I don't know the figures for how many went on scholarships.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 29, 2012)

Just found this, btw.  Not read through it yet, but thought it might be of interest.

http://www.pbs.org/pov/film-files/pov_49up_action_discussion_file_0.pdf


----------



## Ms Ordinary (May 29, 2012)

IIRC Nick got a scholarship to boarding school (I've been watching a few of the early programmes on youtube, not sure if they mentioned it in the current one). From the way he described it, he was encouraged by a teacher in the village school from really early on - I wonder if it was the same one that put him up for the 7-up programme in the first place?, his brothers stayed on the farm, I think. So his move away from his background was maybe more about the effect one single teacher can have, than about social mobility generally.

He also said when he was at Oxford, he remembered another student saying "I didn't realise someone with your accent could be intelligent".


----------



## butchersapron (May 29, 2012)

The point is surely that oxford and the private school exist not that one individual from a w/c background passed through it/them though?


----------



## Ms Ordinary (May 29, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> The point is surely that oxford and the private school exist not that one individual from a w/c background passed through it/them though?


 
Yes, and he's a precise example of what Epona described:




			
				Epona said:
			
		

> but I don't think there's ever been much social upward mobility - sure there have been a few success stories of "humble folk making good", but that is only a few people highlighted to give the rest of us drones hope


----------



## danny la rouge (May 29, 2012)

Ms Ordinary said:


> He also said when he was at Oxford, he remembered another student saying "I didn't realise someone with your accent could be intelligent".


I remember that comment.  It was in one of the earlier ones.  I wish they'd reshow them on TV.


----------



## butchersapron (May 29, 2012)

Thora said:


> FFS - "there isn't a class system because Mother had to get a job to pay for me to go to a public school and eventually become a QC"


Is there an overt counter-argument to this from the other participants?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 29, 2012)

Epona said:


> I wasn't talking about people on the show - I was saying that there may have been a tiny handful _in the UK_ over the last 56 years, but it's not a general upward socially mobile trend and I think the programme illustrated that fairly well - I just think you misunderstood that I was talking wider than the show itself.


But you're simply incorrect, the level of social mobility has changed markedly from 1945 to the present day.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 29, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> But you're simply incorrect, the level of social mobility has changed markedly from 1945 to the present day.



Yes, in that there is far less social mobility now than when this programme began.


----------



## rioted (May 29, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> Yes, in that there is far less social mobility now than when this programme began.


Oh dear. In order to change reality, you must first be able to recognize it.


----------



## Thora (May 29, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Is there an overt counter-argument to this from the other participants?


When they interviewed the other public schoolboy (Andrew I think?  He was a solicitor) they obviously asked him the same question about class and he did acknowledge there was a class system and that he had benefitted from it.


----------



## butchersapron (May 29, 2012)

Ta, what about the three w/c girls/women  - never broached openly, just left there, not mentioned sort of thing?

(and why do only the posh kids get to be asked about class)


----------



## Thora (May 29, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Ta, what about the three w/c girls/women - never broached openly, just left there, not mentioned sort of thing?
> 
> (and why do only the posh kids get to be asked about class)


I don't remember if they were explicitly asked about class - one was asked about her job (a senior admin person at a university) and the fact that she'd never been to university.  Another was asked about her daughters, and whether they went to university (they didn't) and how she felt about it.


----------



## butchersapron (May 29, 2012)

Ta again.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 30, 2012)

rioted said:


> Oh dear. In order to change reality, you must first be able to recognize it.


 
Pardon? You think there is more social mobility now than in the 1960s? It isn't me who needs lessons in reality.


----------



## phildwyer (Jul 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Ta again.


 
Why don't you just watch the bloody thıng?

I just caught up on the 56 Up one.  The amazıng thıng to me ıs the_ total_ lack of class mobılıty.  And the other ıs the way theır personalıtıes seem fıxed by the age of 7, just as the Jesuıts saıd.  The only exceptıon ın both cases ıs Neıl--somethıng seems to have got a bıt broken ın hıs head ın hıs late teens, whıch I suppose happens to quıte a few people. 

Apart from that though, ıt does seem that very early chıldhood determınes destıny for lıfe.  As the parent of a 2 year-old ıt certaınly made me thınk.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2021)

Michael Apted has died, so I guess that’s the end of the run.


----------



## clicker (Jan 9, 2021)

Thats sad. You could tell how genuinely  fond he was of all the children/adults , and they of him. 
I think they'd be due to do another one in 5 years. I hope they find a way to continue. But they could never replace the warmth and connection he had with those interviewed. It would seem a shame though to stop .
Brilliant telly.


----------



## alsoknownas (Jan 9, 2021)

Nice pic:


----------



## tim (Jan 9, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Michael Apted has died, so I guess that’s the end of the run.



An impressive legacy,  in a usually ephemeral medium.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 9, 2021)

downloading the whole UP series now. only ever caught snippets


----------



## clicker (Jan 9, 2021)

ska invita said:


> downloading the whole UP series now. only ever caught snippets


You're in for a real treat.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jan 9, 2021)

That'll be a weird watch, seeing them all in one go rather than every few years.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 9, 2021)

clicker said:


> Thats sad. You could tell how genuinely  fond he was of all the children/adults , and they of him.
> I think they'd be due to do another one in 5 years. I hope they find a way to continue. But they could never replace the warmth and connection he had with those interviewed. It would seem a shame though to stop .
> Brilliant telly.


The last one, a couple of years ago, I have the feeling they knew it was the last. There were several comments from participants along the lines of “as long as you’re here to do it, Michael”.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jan 9, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> The last one, a couple of years ago, I have the feeling they knew it was the last. There were several comments from participants along the lines of “as long as you’re here to do it, Michael”.



Less and less were taking part, too. A couple made it quite clear they weren’t enamoured by being filmed any longer. It was an incredible programme and a brilliant concept. A shame he’s died (and a bit of a shame the format hasn’t been done again).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 9, 2021)

purenarcotic said:


> Less and less were taking part, too. A couple made it quite clear they weren’t enamoured by being filmed any longer. It was an incredible programme and a brilliant concept. A shame he’s died (and a bit of a shame the format hasn’t been done again).


There were grumblings from 14 on. A few dropped out early. One was away for several but came back (to promote his band).


----------



## purenarcotic (Jan 9, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> There were grumblings from 14 on. A few dropped out early. One was away for several but came back (to promote his band).



Haha, he wasn’t daft was he


----------



## platinumsage (Jan 16, 2021)

Great article here on how Apted's initial class critique couldn't really survive as the participants gained agency:









						Michael Apted’s Flawed but Brilliant Epic of British Social Life
					

The Up series was meant to investigate inequities of British class. It also ended up telling a different story as well.




					www.thenation.com
				





Interview with him here which covers this:




Nice litle summary here about what it became:


----------



## ska invita (Jan 18, 2021)

nuffsaid said:


> How on earth do you go from homeless bloke in Scotland to being a Councillor    I wish they'd explained such a dramatic transition for Neil. I was very glad for him, but seemed a bit glossed over.


The Lib Dems and the Church'll take anyone!


----------



## ska invita (Jan 18, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Great article here on how Apted's initial class critique couldn't really survive as the participants gained agency:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent article... ive just binge watched the whole thing from start to finish having never seen it before, and i reckon that piece covers all the things that came up between the lines very accurately, particularly addressing Apted's limitations and failures. I found myself bad mouthing him throughout tbh, describing peoples relationships as "failures" and sombre tones about divorce particularly grating.

On a personal level i found the whole thing slightly depressing - seeing people live out their lives accelerated across several hours of tv is a mirror on your own mortality, and the bit that really stings for me is everyone with their kids and grandkids and how its the most important thing in life message being repeated over and over, and is additionally given weight by Michael Apten patronising and leading questions. I don't have kids and only a little more family, and its made me have to face and own that in a more sober way than i had already.

And on the issue of class that article makes the case - correctly IMO - that over time it showed how people resent their class labels. It mentions: " As Florence Sutcliffe-Braithwaite argued in _Class, Politics, and the Decline of Deference in England, 1968–2000_, although class continued to matter—even as inequality worsened—people resisted labeling themselves by class; the very word seemed snobbish or blinkered. Most preferred to say they were ordinary, and yet they were still able to define complex identities for themselves. "

This is echoed in the massive Social Class in the 21st Century study. Its a major problem for a left that puts class consciousness and class identity as its starting point, when people resent and try to escape the stigmas of all class identities < something in evidence in all the UP participants. IMO the left can resolve that, not by abandoning class, but by finding new language for class-relationships that sidesteps old class stereotypes. The 99% was a failed attempt at that. The show has reinforced my views on that.

ANYWAY, very interesting stuff. I see on the Wiki page that other countries have started their own UP series, some of which are much more modern - I'd be curious to see a more contemporary version. Has anyone?


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 18, 2021)

purenarcotic said:


> Less and less were taking part, too. A couple made it quite clear they weren’t enamoured by being filmed any longer. It was an incredible programme and a brilliant concept. A shame he’s died (and a bit of a shame the format hasn’t been done again).



There's a new group with kids who were 7 in 2000 so we should be getting 28up this year. The earlier episodes aren't on iPlayer though.









						BBC One - 28 Up: Millennium Generation - The New Generation
					

28 Up: Millennium Generation profiles: The New Generation




					www.bbc.co.uk
				




ETA: The only one I could remember before looking at these was the kid who was on the books at Leeds Utd but I seem to remember now one might be the kid of someone high up at the BBC. Either way I found it just as interesting as the original series.


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## Treacle Toes (Jan 18, 2021)

purenarcotic said:


> Less and less were taking part, too. A couple made it quite clear they weren’t enamoured by being filmed any longer. It was an incredible programme and a brilliant concept. A shame he’s died (and a bit of a shame the format hasn’t been done again).



Almost all of those that stopped taking part returned at some point. Reasons for not getting involved in certain episodes ranged from personal reasons (deaths in family), not liking the way they were being portrayed/edited and that they were subject to vitriolic attacks in the press etc. Both John and Peter came back at some point and used the platform to promote charity or a band. Indeed it was Peter, who detailed that after the 28 episode aired his calmly put comments about the Thatcher governemnt drew lots of horrible media attention. He was a teacher at the time, I imagine that wasn't easy. The only one that we never saw again after 21 was one of the trio of public school guys who then became a journalist/bbc producer/documentary maker, Charles.

I really enjoyed re/watching this series...I don't think I'd ever seen them all but did have very strong memories of watching both 7 & 14 UP at school.

I don't think the psychological and emotional impact of taking part in it can be underestimated. I am glad to read that Apted grew in awareness over the years and accepted that whilst the idea and premise for the programme was interesting and had merit he hadn't adequately thought about the participants enough as 'subjects' and what the experience would mean/do to them.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jan 18, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Florence Sutcliffe-Braithwaite


Sounds like the sort of name you'd make up as the author of a book on social class... 

I loved watching the Up series, mostly because it was one of those programmes that I really remember watching and discussing together as a whole family when I was a kid, and then in later years being able to reflect on what my parents might have felt watching it with their young children, now that I'm older.


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## Treacle Toes (Jan 18, 2021)

Argh I am pissed off with myself now because I didn't mention this (there'll be more too)...We watched the 63 UP yesterday...Lynn dying wasn't what I expected at all despite knowing she had a known condition for much of her adult life. I was furious they didn't dedicate the programme to her. I am hopeful we just didn't see that part of the credits on the download we watched from.

I grew up in the area and used the library Lynn worked at in Bethnal green for a lot of her life, I was born in the London Hospital literally opposite to the newer central site for the area on Bethnal Green road in Whitechapel.. The first home I remember 1 street away. East End and working class areas throughout the UK are full of people like her who just fucking get on with it, aren't appreciated enough and claim not to be political but are politically savvy beyond most that have a university politics degree. I relate to her and others because of this...my political ideas, ideals and drive were cultivated in the same manor. On council estates.

I come from a long line of working class people, especially women, working themselves to/until death in the best possible way (if there is one). In my everyday life I have mostly been inspired by them.

Lynn, thank you for being you. <3


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## Part 2 (Sep 28, 2021)

28up starting on Wednesday









						‘So different’: how the millennials of 28 Up are coping with changing times
					

As a new chapter of the landmark series begins, life isn’t the same as it was for their baby boomer forbears




					www.theguardian.com


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## ska invita (Sep 28, 2021)

I hope they put the rest of this series to on iPlayer..I haven't seen any of these new ones. No torrents either


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## Part 2 (Sep 28, 2021)

ska invita said:


> I hope they put the rest of this series to on iPlayer..I haven't seen any of these new ones. No torrents either


Looks like they're on.









						BBC One - 28 Up: Millennium Generation - Available now
					

Available episodes of 28 Up: Millennium Generation




					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Part 2 (Oct 4, 2021)

Decided to watch from the start before seeing the 28up episodes. Just finished 14up.

It struck me how little there's anything to do with social media and these.mustve been the last year's before smartphones were everywhere. Also sad to see the Salford lad missing already.

It's heartbreaking to watch. My son was a year younger than them and I'm watching it thinking what he thought his future was gonna be like at that age. Even the most articulate kids on it occasionally say something that's so innovative and revealing. 

Really looking forward the getting to the new ones.


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## ska invita (Oct 4, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Decided to watch from the start before seeing the 28up episodes. Just finished 14up.
> 
> It struck me how little there's anything to do with social media and these.mustve been the last year's before smartphones were everywhere. Also sad to see the Salford lad missing already.
> 
> ...


just up to the same point in the series - hadnt realised he was missing as theres so many kids in this - yeah hope hes alright 
so true though - 14 UP is 2007, about when youtube started to get popular IRC....itll be interesting to see the effect if any by 21 and 28


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## sojourner (Oct 17, 2021)

What happened to the little girl from 7 up, mum was an artist and dad a builder? She had quite a dark outlook on life and I was interested to see how she turned out, but she didn't appear again.


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## Part 2 (Oct 17, 2021)

sojourner said:


> What happened to the little girl from 7 up, mum was an artist and dad a builder? She had quite a dark outlook on life and I was interested to see how she turned out, but she didn't appear again.


I'm guessing she just decided not to appear again. The lad called Taime from Salford was the same. I really wanted to  know what happened with him he was so funny.

There was one missing at 21 who returned for 28 so I suppose they must try to maintain contact somehow.


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