# Do you disapprove of people who are planning an overseas holiday this summer?



## Elpenor (Jun 11, 2021)

I regularly read an air miles / loyalty points blog / forum whose primary audience is London-based bankers who do (did) a lot of business travel. I’m definitely not one of them but the blog is useful as it highlights ways to exploit loyalty points promotions etc so occasionally I can get a free flight or hotel room from my own very modest travels.

Anyway, most of the commenters on the blog are forever agitating for restrictions to be ended, as they’re desperate to travel first class - usually to Dubai / Maldives etc - and stay in 5-star hotels etc, some of the comments are along the lines of covid is over-hyped etc. This is a group of people who are largely all wfh and can insulate themselves quite well from the impact due to income 

I feel it’s totally the wrong approach, and it shows a lot about our modern selfish society.

For clarity I’m talking about leisure holidays, not mercy visits for funerals / care etc


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## Winot (Jun 11, 2021)

We are booked to go abroad but on a junkable flight (can reuse till end April 2022). We won’t go unless the country is on the green list.

(#pollfail)


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## platinumsage (Jun 11, 2021)

It’s easy to criticise other people but I’d hazard a guess and say there is basically no one who is holding off from going on holiday abroad for purely altruistic reasons, there’s inevitably going to be a personal element of fear and/or desire to avoid restrictions. Consequently I’m not sure it’s right to demonise those who do want to go abroad.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 11, 2021)

I think it's a bit pointless to judge people who are behaving within the rules tbh. If allowed to go then people will, if that's a problem then that's a government issue as far as I'm concerned. All this 'you can go, but you shouldn't' stuff is just ridiculous.


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## Elpenor (Jun 11, 2021)

Winot said:


> We are booked to go abroad but on a junkable flight (can reuse till end April 2022). We won’t go unless the country is on the green list.
> 
> (#pollfail


I think that was what I meant the third option to be, not very easy to do on phone 




platinumsage said:


> It’s easy to criticise other people but I’d hazard a guess and say there is basically no one who is holding off from going on holiday abroad for purely altruistic reasons, there’s inevitably going to be a personal element of fear and/or desire to avoid restrictions. Consequently I’m not sure it’s right to demonise those who do want to go abroad.



I wasn’t intending those who want to go abroad to be demonised, my target was those who seem to want to be able to do it right now at any cost and looking for loopholes. I’ve certainly got places I want to visit but they’re parked for a few years.


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## Chilli.s (Jun 11, 2021)

I wish I could afford a holiday aboard but that money is going to be earmarked for other bills. I hope my finances can cope with the inevitable shrinking in the worlds economy and allow me some kind of retirement.


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## chilango (Jun 11, 2021)

We're booked to go to France, but tbh I don't anticipate it happening.


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## Spymaster (Jun 11, 2021)

The poll question requires an opposite response to the the thread title. 

It irritates my sense of order


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## Yossarian (Jun 11, 2021)

As long as the travellers are fully vaccinated it's not an issue I'd lose a lot sleep over - they're definitely not in the same league as the shitheads who took holidays overseas when Britain was a COVID hotspot and the Alpha variant was emerging.


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## High Voltage (Jun 11, 2021)

I've answered option 3 - I'd like a holiday . . . but option

I'm firmly of the opinion that anyone booking a holiday in the next twelve months is being a bit optimistic, I'm not thinking of a holiday, probably, until 2022 or later (bear in mind that both me and Mrs Voltz are hitting 60 this year and we were hoping to do a "big" holiday . . . that'll just have to shelved for the time being though


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 11, 2021)

I'd love to go visit my mum and some old friends I haven't seen for ages but can't see it happening this summer, maybe around shitemass but not even sure of that.
Somehow the poll won't let me vote.


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## kebabking (Jun 11, 2021)

Personally, I take the view that anyone going abroad just for a holiday in the current circumstances of rapidly emerging variants, a not fantastically competent government, and a lottery in of restrictions upon their return is a magic mix of selfish and idiotic.

I enjoy holidays in Greece, or Portugal, or Italy as much as anyone in else, but the idea that it's not really a holiday of you stay in the UK is a stupid one - if you can't have a beach holiday in Dorset, or Cornwall, or Pembrokeshire, or a walking holiday in the Dales, Lakes, Galloway in or Snowdonia, or a city holiday in Edinburgh, or Manchester, Bristol or Norwich then there's (to be blunt) something wrong with you, not anything lacking in the astonishingly beautiful and varied country in which we live. 

For me, potentially exposing yourself to new variants and then bringing in them back is as selfish and harmful to others - and should be as socially unacceptable - as drink-driving.

The risks to the traveller of local lockdown, illness, and restrictions upon return are the same as those as those involved in going swimming, at night, off the coast of South Africa, dressed as a seal: the the richly deserved wages of stupidity.

(Anyone who goes on holiday to Dubai should be shot, entirely regardless of whether there's a pandemic on...).


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## strung out (Jun 11, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> As long as the travellers are fully vaccinated it's not an issue I'd lose a lot sleep over - they're definitely not in the same league as the shitheads who took holidays overseas when Britain was a COVID hotspot and the Alpha variant was emerging.


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## maomao (Jun 11, 2021)

I don't really blame people for doing what they are able to do but I dislike hearing that people 'deserve' a holiday. Normally just for not having had a holiday for a bit. Part of this is envy because I haven't had a proper holiday in seven years but I do generally dislike hearing that people 'deserve' things without having done anything particularly special to deserve them.


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## Mrs Miggins (Jun 11, 2021)

maomao said:


> I don't really blame people for doing what they are able to do but I dislike hearing that people 'deserve' a holiday. Normally just for not having had a holiday for a bit. Part of this is envy because I haven't had a proper holiday in seven years but I do generally dislike hearing that people 'deserve' things without having done anything particularly special to deserve them.


I too find the notion of "deserving" a holiday abroad quite peculiar. Why? Why does anyone "deserve" that? 
And I also find it bizarre that people can't just wait. I know it's been a pretty shitty time lately but just wait. I guess it's like people who buy loads of stuff on credit because they can't handle waiting and saving up for something.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 11, 2021)

Winot said:


> We are booked to go abroad but on a junkable flight (can reuse till end April 2022). We won’t go unless the country is on the green list.
> 
> (#pollfail)




100% this.

Not bothered about quarantine etc., but the costs for tests for the five of us is over £1000 and whist we have the money it seems like it could be better spent elsewhere and not wasted on a few Covid tests.


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## Supine (Jun 11, 2021)

I’m ok with people following the rules booking holidays. I don’t have any sympathy for people troubled by rule changes though because there is a global pandemic. Foreign travel should be minimised and risk accepted if the desire to go is that strong.


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## chilango (Jun 11, 2021)

In our case it was planned and arranged pre-Covid (apart from ferry bookings) and we've just left it there as there has been little to be gained from officially cancelling.

I've never really believed it will go ahead, despite the occasional moment of optimism, and we'll likely just defer 'til better times.


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## bimble (Jun 11, 2021)

I’m not going anywhere until it feels like there’s as close to zero as possible chance of ending up in a quarantine hotel somewhere near Luton run by a mate of Matt Hancock’s upon my return, eating stale crackers for 2 weeks. Am really scared of that.


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## Glitter (Jun 11, 2021)

I’d love to book one but haven’t because of the uncertainty. I neither want to lose money nor live in uncertain hope until the last minute. If I could guarantee we could go I would go.

I was one of the people who was fortunate enough to go last year too. Our flights had been booked for 12 months and we weighed it up and went. As it happens quarantine upon return was announced once we were there so that is what we did. We knew it was a possibility, we are fortunate enough to have circumstances that allowed it and it was totally worth it.


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## xenon (Jun 11, 2021)

It seems a bit daft, as the likelyhood of hassle seems quite high but that's all really.

Although I can't stand the usual lazy media people crying at the airport, moaning about delays, tropes. Holiday travel misery headlines etc. In previous years due to industiral action.

And my sympathy is a bit limited for those who give it all, my holiday's ruined cos the rules changed complaints.


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## tony.c (Jun 11, 2021)

I don't go anywhere in the summer anyway. I like the long days here, and the weather is usually ok. I do usually go on a long haul holiday in January/February to escape the cold and dark.
I booked to go to Cuba in January after Johnson said Covid would be over by Christmas, last August. I should have known better than to believe anything he said.
When we went into lockdown again in January my booking was cancelled and I got a full refund from the travel company, but lost the £50 it cost for visa.

I won't be booking any holiday again until I know it is definitely going to go ahead, and any requirements are not too difficult.
I'm still hoping I might get away next winter, but not holding my breath.

I can understand why people who face the daily work grind for most of the year would want to go away for a break and some sun - especially if they are from Scotland or up North where the weather is worse. But they must take into account they might have problems.


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## LDC (Jun 11, 2021)

Split between completely understanding people wanting a holiday away after the last 18 months and feeling fine with them booking a trip away to a green list country, while on the other hand thinking people going abroad during a global pandemic are either selfish, idiots, or a combination of both.

Either way zero sympathy for all the moaning when things change and they get a bit stuck or end up having to rush back, to the point of thinking they should be made to walk home from wherever they are to teach them a lesson. And the fucking media pushing cameras in people's faces at airports cajoling some sob story out of them about disaster holidays and the little angel's lives being ruined need shooting.

I do think we need to re-appraise our relationship to easy and frequent foreign travel, but I know that's neither popular nor going to be easy. (And not likely to happen.)


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## StoneRoad (Jun 11, 2021)

Normally, when I have time / money to do so, I take my holiday in the UK - usually in the form of shorter breaks [ie mid-week weekends].

Planning to continue this style anyway, especially now, as I don't want to have the covid related hassle over travelling.
Also, I want to support the UK tourism industry.

Personally, I think some of the people agitating for overseas leisure travel, who then get "caught out" by rule changes and complain about that situation need to take a look at themselves and the circumstances ...

If I had the money / time to spare for overseas travel, personally, I would want to wait until as much as possible of the whole world has had the jabs and covid-19 has become a non-problem.


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## miss direct (Jun 11, 2021)

Yes, I will judge anyone* travelling just because they want to, without a reason such as visiting family or other necessities. There are wonderful places in the UK to go to, and the narrative of "I deserve a holiday" (especially if this is followed by "I've worked all through this") and "can't wait to get off this shitty island" has *really *annoyed me. Selfish and holiday obsessed.

* with a few exceptions


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## Johnny Doe (Jun 11, 2021)

We've got a holiday to Tenerife booked at the end of August and will go if it's on the green list at that point. If not we'll move it on a year. We were over there last Xmas and had to come home early due to change in rules, which is something you just have to accept is possible at the moment.


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## rekil (Jun 11, 2021)

I watched Korean pandemic disaster fillum The Flu and a robust approach is taken towards people in infected zones and especially foreign holiday booking chancers but the most drastic treatment is reserved for those who use the word "staycation". 


Spoiler


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## Johnny Doe (Jun 11, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Yes, I will judge anyone travelling just because they want to, without a reason such as visiting family or other necessities. There are wonderful places in the UK to go to, and the narrative of "I deserve a holiday" (especially if this is followed by "I've worked all through this") and "can't wait to get off this shitty island" has *really *annoyed me. Selfish and holiday obsessed.


Individual circumstances are more nuanced that that. I already know that summer will be a long haul, my autistic boy will be up hours before anything is open, and my 6 year old is hyper-intelligent and needs stimulating from 6am until 9pm, or just goes nuts. The chance of a week or two where the weather is guaranteed to be good enough for them to play in a pool all day, is the only respite we'll get. We don't have anyone else who can handle them, no-one who even babysits., now the lady who could has got a full time job. 

I've had both jabs and if allowed we'll be away at the end of August. If we can't, we can't, but I won't feel bad if we can


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## T & P (Jun 11, 2021)

Even if the country in question were on the amber list, if the people travelling observe the quarantine rules, no problem at all. Far less risk to the rest of us than the countless twats who refuse to wear a mask in shops or in public transport.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 11, 2021)

Why is there amber anyway? Surely red and green is all that is needed? Typical Johnson to have a go/don’t go option.


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## miss direct (Jun 11, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Individual circumstances are more nuanced that that. I already know that summer will be a long haul, my autistic boy will be up hours before anything is open, and my 6 year old is hyper-intelligent and needs stimulating from 6am until 9pm, or just goes nuts. The chance of a week or two where the weather is guaranteed to be good enough for them to play in a pool all day, is the only respite we'll get. We don't have anyone else who can handle them, no-one who even babysits., now the lady who could has got a full time job.
> 
> I've had both jabs and if allowed we'll be away at the end of August. If we can't, we can't, but I won't feel bad if we can


Yeah, obviously there are different situations and one like yours doesn't match the typical attitude I've seen - people who are gagging to get on a flight to Turkey to drink Efes and get sunburnt, many of whom will neither follow the rules there nor self isolate on return (that's if Turkey does go to Amber).


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 11, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Yes, I will judge anyone travelling just because they want to, without a reason such as visiting family or other necessities. There are wonderful places in the UK to go to, and the narrative of "I deserve a holiday" (especially if this is followed by "I've worked all through this") and "can't wait to get off this shitty island" has *really *annoyed me. Selfish and holiday obsessed.



We are booked to Greece at the end of July with Frau Bahn’s mum who is 80 and deteriorating fast, will most probably be the last time we get to go away with her.

Actual flying has been shown to not be a spreader, airports may but the ones I have seen have been spotless the past year with really well thought out distancing plans. To then hire a car and go and sit in a villa for a fortnight, venturing to a beach or outside restaurant or bar every few days, why should that be considered risky?


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## xenon (Jun 11, 2021)

Oh yeah people who use the word staycation to mean going on a holiday in the country of their residence, I very much judge those wrong fuckwits.

Staycation as everyone knows means not going on holiday at all. Not going down to Cornwall for a fortnight break, there's a word for that already. Holiday.


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## miss direct (Jun 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> We are booked to Greece at the end of July with Frau Bahn’s mum who is 80 and deteriorating fast, will most probably be the last time we get to go away with her.
> 
> Actual flying has been shown to not be a spreader, airports may but the ones I have seen have been spotless the past year with really well thought out distancing plans. To then hire a car and go and sit in a villa for a fortnight, venturing to a beach or outside restaurant or bar every few days, why should that be considered risky?


I was actually thinking of older people who may not get to go away again, yes, don't have a big problem with that. My distain is for the type of attitude I described, of which I see a lot on various social media. 

It's not just the flying that's a concern (although having flown last year to move back to the UK, it's not something I would want to do just for a holiday personally), it's also the vaccination rates and rules in the host country.


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## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2021)

I don’t disapprove of the people, but I think their plans are likely to be subject to sudden change. I wouldn’t be booking anything abroad for a while yet.  This is far from over, vaccine or not.


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## Sue (Jun 11, 2021)

I'd love to go abroad but have basically ruled it out this year. I do really need a holiday but that'll be somewhere in the UK -- probably Scotland to see my family. 

(And going somewhere where things are potentially closed and whatever precautions are in place doesn't seem that relaxing tbh. I'd rather wait until things are more back to normal...)


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## bimble (Jun 11, 2021)

Friend flew to Portugal yesterday, he sent me a photo from the plane window coming in to land, all sparkly sea below and it really felt like something from another era, like Oh yeah that used to be a thing.


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## Yossarian (Jun 11, 2021)

kebabking said:


> if you can't have a beach holiday in Dorset, or Cornwall, or Pembrokeshire, or a walking holiday in the Dales, Lakes, Galloway in or Snowdonia, or a city holiday in Edinburgh, or Manchester, Bristol or Norwich then there's (to be blunt) something wrong with you, not anything lacking in the astonishingly beautiful and varied country in which we live.
> 
> ....
> 
> (Anyone who goes on holiday to Dubai should be shot, entirely regardless of whether there's a pandemic on...).



I'd personally take a wet weekend at a British beach over an all-expenses-paid fortnight in Dubai - but I've been a little less judgy about Dubai tourists after hearing that some British Muslims favour Gulf holidays to get away from racism and Islamophobia in Britain.


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## elbows (Jun 11, 2021)

Its not really a question of whether I disapprove.

For me its more like one of the big factors that people experienced in the first few months of the pandemic - whether stress that stems from uncertainty and rapidly changing circumstances outweighs the mental health benefit of having a holiday 'to look forward to' without such hope being crushed at any moment.

Individual decisions on this matter should also be incfluenced by peoples economic circumstances and the feasibility of them having to quarantine upon return.


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## miss direct (Jun 11, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> I'd personally take a wet weekend at a British beach over an all-expenses-paid fortnight in Dubai - but I've been a little less judgy about Dubai tourists after hearing that some British Muslims favour Gulf holidays to get away from racism and Islamophobia in Britain.


Having spent a month in Dubai for work, I totally agree. I met nice people but generally awful place. 

Don't buy the second part. Plenty of other places they could go that actually have history and culture.


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## nagapie (Jun 11, 2021)

What I want to know is whether I can book to go see my family in Apr in South Africa. It will have been 4 years since I've seen them.


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## Winot (Jun 11, 2021)

kebabking said:


> Personally, I take the view that anyone going abroad just for a holiday in the current circumstances of rapidly emerging variants, a not fantastically competent government, and a lottery in of restrictions upon their return is a magic mix of selfish and idiotic.
> 
> I enjoy holidays in Greece, or Portugal, or Italy as much as anyone in else, but the idea that it's not really a holiday of you stay in the UK is a stupid one - if you can't have a beach holiday in Dorset, or Cornwall, or Pembrokeshire, or a walking holiday in the Dales, Lakes, Galloway in or Snowdonia, or a city holiday in Edinburgh, or Manchester, Bristol or Norwich then there's (to be blunt) something wrong with you, not anything lacking in the astonishingly beautiful and varied country in which we live.
> 
> ...


Very happy to go on holiday in the UK but just to note that most accommodation in rural areas is now fully booked.

We will do a city break in Glasgow (if allowed) on the basis that we are probably going to be able to find accommodation there.


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## kalidarkone (Jun 11, 2021)

elbows said:


> Its not really a question of whether I disapprove.
> 
> For me its more like one of the big factors that people experienced in the first few months of the pandemic - whether stress that stems from uncertainty and rapidly changing circumstances outweighs the mental health benefit of having a holiday 'to look forward to' without such hope being crushed at any moment.
> 
> Individual decisions on this matter should also be incfluenced by peoples economic circumstances and the feasibility of them having to quarantine upon return.


That's what I was going to say- honest! 😀

I judge people for going on holiday abroad, not because I think its wrong or have a problem with it, just because it seems really stressful at the moment.....hardly worth the effort imo. So I guess I think that unless they can afford to quarantine or are unwilling to take the hit of cost and inconvenience then they are stupid and I have no sympathy.


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## Looby (Jun 11, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Yeah, obviously there are different situations and one like yours doesn't match the typical attitude I've seen - people who are gagging to get on a flight to Turkey to drink Efes and get sunburnt, many of whom will neither follow the rules there nor self isolate on return (that's if Turkey does go to Amber).


That just seems to be judging the class or motivations of people wanting to go on holiday though. 
It doesn’t follow at all that it’s the lads lads lads lot that won’t follow the rules, won’t isolate etc 

Everyone you ask will have a reason why they need a holiday. Either it’s ok to go or it’s not so whilst I have sympathy for those who have extenuating circumstances like a hard year, elderly parent etc it really doesn’t change whether it’s really ok to travel abroad.


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## miss direct (Jun 11, 2021)

Looby said:


> That just seems to be judging the class or motivations of people wanting to go on holiday though.
> It doesn’t follow at all that it’s the lads lads lads lot that won’t follow the rules, won’t isolate etc
> 
> Everyone you ask will have a reason why they need a holiday. Either it’s ok to go or it’s not so whilst I have sympathy for those who have extenuating circumstances like a hard year, elderly parent etc it really doesn’t change whether it’s really ok to travel abroad.


No not about class, just attitude.
Some reasons are better than others though. It's just my opinion.


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## NoXion (Jun 11, 2021)

I don't hold any particular antipathy towards anyone going on a foreign holiday, although I do really have to wonder why they would bother in the first place, considering how quickly the situation has been shown to change already. Even if your trip doesn't get cancelled by circumstances outside of your control, there's just so much bother associated with an already bothersome process. Airports and shit are stressful enough without Covid on top making it worse.


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## Looby (Jun 11, 2021)

I don’t really have skin in the game as I don’t go abroad but I do think it’s quite a silly decision and I probably do judge a bit. 
My attitude throughout this year or so has been just because you can, it doesn’t mean you should.

I’ve got a weekend away booked in the UK. Driving there, Airbnb with my own room and only outdoor stuff when I’m there so park comedy thing, restaurant and beer gardens and probably mostly walking and very little public transport.
I’m prepared that it could be cancelled and I’m prepared to lose the money on the accommodation if it doesn’t but I don’t feel it’s safe.

I think actually everyone needs a break and it would be really nice if we all got one but it won’t happen.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 11, 2021)

kalidarkone said:


> That's what I was going to say- honest! 😀
> 
> I judge people for going on holiday abroad, not because I think its wrong or have a problem with it, just because it seems really stressful at the moment.....hardly worth the effort imo. So I guess I think that unless they can afford to quarantine or are unwilling to take the hit of cost and inconvenience then they are stupid and I have no sympathy.




I can afford it and the quarantine is not an issue, but really don't fancy spending the entire break filling out five passenger locator forms, arranging and uploading tests and so on. Did think that would be OK if it was amber, but the past week have been, meh, fuck it unless it goes green.


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## 2hats (Jun 11, 2021)

kebabking said:


> Personally, I take the view that anyone going abroad just for a holiday [...] is a magic mix of selfish and idiotic.
> 
> ...
> 
> For me, potentially exposing yourself to new variants and then bringing in them back is as selfish and harmful to others - and should be as socially unacceptable - as drink-driving.


Equally applicable to (re-)exporting a rich zoo of variants from de Spaffel plague island to other countries (many of whom have lower rates of vaccination, lower degrees of vaccine access, and some with lesser resourced healthcare facilities, particularly when the population count temporarily rockets).


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## Looby (Jun 11, 2021)

miss direct said:


> No not about class, just attitude.
> Some reasons are better than others though. It's just my opinion.


 But what people do on holiday or want from their trip doesn’t change whether they should go on holiday in a pandemic. No offence to Harry and Bahnhof but their perfectly valid reasons for wanting a holiday don’t trump mine or anyone else’s. 
Is it safe?
Is there a risk of transmission/introduction of variants?

That should be the only thing decisions are based on not whether someone wants to go to Magaluf and do shots for breakfast* or to do a nice cultured trip to Barcelona. 

*that sounds amazing right now. 😄


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## miss direct (Jun 11, 2021)

I suppose not, BUT if everyone who fancies a trip abroad goes, the risk goes up. Also, I'm guessing the poster who is going with their 80 year old parent will be very careful, whereas the boozey brigade, er, may be less so. 

I would judge someone who wanted to go and visit mosques in Istanbul because they fancied it just the same as someone wanting booze with their full English on the beach.


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## Sprocket. (Jun 11, 2021)

I would truly love a holiday in Greece, especially as it could be my last opportunity. But I cannot and will not risk my life after going through what I have over the last two years. Sadly, even getting away in this country is a problem due to treatment and appointments.
It’s Mrs S. I feel bad about, she has spent two years coping with me, her mother, who has advanced Alzheimer’s and working ridiculous hours, though at home.
I hope we can soon catch a break and jet off to our spot on Kefalonia, I yearn to go and see those who have had such a positive impact on our lives over the last thirty five years. 
But I am adamant not to lose what I have for the sake of sentimentality.


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## Plumdaff (Jun 11, 2021)

I suspect many people will be in the same situation as me. We booked a holiday for summer 2020 in late 2019, have been able to postpone it to this year, but currently can't cancel or postpone until 2022 (which would be my preferred option) until close to the date without incurring some financial losses. Therefore, in case we can go, I've needed to arrange refundable travel options so we don't end up scrabbling around at the last minute. We'd only go if it's on the green list, and had I had a crystal ball in late 2019 would not have booked in the first place.


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## Raheem (Jun 11, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> As long as the travellers are fully vaccinated it's not an issue I'd lose a lot sleep over - they're definitely not in the same league as the shitheads who took holidays overseas when Britain was a COVID hotspot and the Alpha variant was emerging.


Possibly not, although it has to be said Britain is currently a Covid hotspot, and this time it's the delta variant.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 11, 2021)

Looby said:


> Is it safe?
> Is there a risk of transmission/introduction of variants?



I genuinely don't think it is any more risky than just staying around my home town.

There's a lot of judgement going down here, the thread is specifically asking for that, however one thing this past year or so has taught me is that everyone has their own level of risk and, crucially, that I must respect that. Which pisses me right off as I like to judge and cast aspersions and Covid has robbed me of that and made me a more tolerant human being. For that it can't be forgiven.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 11, 2021)

miss direct said:


> I suppose not, BUT if everyone who fancies a trip abroad goes, the risk goes up. Also, I'm guessing the poster who is going with their 80 year old parent will be very careful



Yeah, she's not in the best of health and started shielding at the end of January 2020, nearly a month before it was advised, she saw that it was particularly dangerous for people in her condition. And she only left her house for the very first time in April of this year. And whilst fully vaccinated, we'll of course be hyper-careful.


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## chilango (Jun 11, 2021)

...and this is yet another example of how the Government has washed its hands of responsibility. preferring instead to place that in the hands of individuals. 

We are not epidemiologists.

Yet, they place the onus on us "to make the right decision" whilst - still - putting out confused and contradictory guidance.

I've just had a look at the travel advice stuff.

"You really shouldn't go, but if you do here's loads of details about how to do it..."

Essentially.


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## Glitter (Jun 11, 2021)

Hmmm I want to go away to drink cheap booze in the sunshine, mess about in the pool and get a tan but I will also follow all the rules.

I don’t have any x factor stories as to why I should go and I accept that I won’t be this summer (we’ve a place in Wales booked) but I’m booking my girls weekend in November as soon as I can afford it and if we’re allowed to go I’ll be off like a shot!


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 11, 2021)

chilango said:


> ...and this is yet another example of how the Government has washed its hands of responsibility. preferring instead to place that in the hands of individuals.
> 
> We are not epidemiologists.
> 
> ...


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## Johnny Doe (Jun 11, 2021)

Looby said:


> But what people do on holiday or want from their trip doesn’t change whether they should go on holiday in a pandemic. No offence to Harry and Bahnhof but their perfectly valid reasons for wanting a holiday don’t trump mine or anyone else’s.
> Is it safe?
> Is there a risk of transmission/introduction of variants?
> 
> ...


No offence taken Looby, I think you make a valid point


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 11, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> I'd personally take a wet weekend at a British beach over an all-expenses-paid fortnight in Dubai - but I've been a little less judgy about Dubai tourists after hearing that some British Muslims favour Gulf holidays to get away from racism and Islamophobia in Britain.



Get away from racism and Islamaphobia by embracing different racism, homophobia, extreme classism, misogyny, religious intolerance, and a judicial system not fit to piss on. .

Nah, fuck 'em.


----------



## miss direct (Jun 11, 2021)

Glitter said:


> Hmmm I want to go away to drink cheap booze in the sunshine, mess about in the pool and get a tan but I will also follow all the rules.
> 
> I don’t have any x factor stories as to why I should go and I accept that I won’t be this summer (we’ve a place in Wales booked) but I’m booking my girls weekend in November as soon as I can afford it and if we’re allowed to go I’ll be off like a shot!


Theres an idea for a new reality show...who deserves to go on a foreign holiday? 

Hopefully you'll be lucky and get nice weather in Wales. I got a tan working in Swansea for the summer!


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 11, 2021)

chilango said:


> ...and this is yet another example of how the Government has washed its hands of responsibility. preferring instead to place that in the hands of individuals.
> 
> We are not epidemiologists.
> 
> ...



Yes. Particularly as this is an area where they genuinely do have control. If they say 'no meeting inside' or whatever then of course some people will continue to do it and to be fair the government's power to prevent that is limited. If they say 'this plane is not taking off' then the plane doesn't take off (plane doesn't take off!) and whatever risk there is is eliminated. If they don't want people flying they absolutely can stop them.


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## Glitter (Jun 11, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yes. Particularly as this is an area where they genuinely do have control. If they say 'no meeting inside' or whatever then of course some people will continue to do it and to be fair the government's power to prevent that is limited. If they say 'this plane is not taking off' then the plane doesn't take off (plane doesn't take off!) and whatever risk there is eliminated. If they don't want people flying they absolutely can stop them.


They do want people flying because they want people buying flights and holiday clothes and goods and airport food etc.

They just want to be able to say it’s their fault if they die.


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## chilango (Jun 11, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yes. Particularly as this is an area where they genuinely do have control. If they say 'no meeting inside' or whatever then of course some people will continue to do it and to be fair the government's power to prevent that is limited. If they say 'this plane is not taking off' then the plane doesn't take off (plane doesn't take off!) and whatever risk there is is eliminated. If they don't want people flying they absolutely can stop them.



If only there was some way we could've taken back control of our borders...


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## chilango (Jun 11, 2021)

School uniforms and dress codes are a classed, gendered and racialised imposition of mythologised white middle-class values.


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## MickiQ (Jun 11, 2021)

I wouldn't say I disapprove of people taking foreign holidays but I don't have a lot of sympathy when I see them on the telly whinging about it's not fair they've had to cut it short and it's cost them hundreds for a flight back.  Surely anyone with a modicum of sense would have factored that into their decisions and accepted the risk.
As for us,  Even a small chance of having to fork out to  rush back to avoid the possibility of having to spend a fortnight in a govt hotel (at my expense) just isn't worth it. A foreign holiday would be nice but not until it is long over.


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## Yossarian (Jun 11, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Get away from racism and Islamaphobia by embracing different racism, homophobia, extreme classism, misogyny, religious intolerance, and a judicial system not fit to piss on. .
> 
> Nah, fuck 'em.



Yeah, fuck Dubai - still, I can understand why some people's desire to go somewhere that isn't Britain for a holiday might extend a little beyond a lack of appreciation for the country's varied landscapes.


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## girasol (Jun 11, 2021)

I don't disapprove but there's no way I'm leaving the country/getting stuck on airport/quarantining for the sake of a holiday.  Some people have found themselves in nightmarish situations trying to get back and I'm not prepared to risk it.  Would I rather people just didn't go anywhere in the whole world until this was finished? HELL, YEAH Is it going to happen? HELL, NO!  If there had been a complete travel ban unless extremely necessary from the start we all know things would have been different by now.  Less deaths, less cases, less variants.

Edit: I do think the whole world should have stopped international travel at the start though, not just the UK.


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## Griff (Jun 11, 2021)

I'd love a usual week in Corfu, but with the constantly changing government crap, testing and hiked flight prices then it's really not worth the aggro.


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 11, 2021)

I seldom go on foreign holidays, the last time was about 15 years ago. I did go to trade shows and to factories if and when needed but certainly not now. I think folk must be desperate for a foreign holiday if they're booking holidays to go this year. My brother and sister in law are booked for Sepetember. I know people who have got stuck somewhere, a friend got stuck in Portugal for 5 months, my brothers mother in law got stuck over here 3 months and one of my ex-clients who is Canadian but works all over the world has been in Dubai since November with no sign of being able to leave yet.  I hope people have thought this through and can afford quarantine and being stuck somewhere indefinitely.


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## kittyP (Jun 11, 2021)

I don't think people going on holiday abroad are "selfish bastards", I understand people needing a proper break from the monotonous daily reality...
But I think it is misguided and I wouldn't do it...
But I also think it's the governments wishy-washy handling of the whole mess that is letting people act in a misguided way.


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## Griff (Jun 11, 2021)

Yeah, being stuck somewhere indefinitely with our cat at home is a major discouragement at the moment too.


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## bimble (Jun 11, 2021)

I have 3 nights accomodation booked, in Rome in September, no flights. I have absolutely no idea if that will happen or not but i do like thinking about it, imagining that it _might _is nice in itself (haven't booked anything else at all since Feb last year).


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## 8ball (Jun 11, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Get away from racism and Islamaphobia by embracing different racism, homophobia, extreme classism, misogyny, religious intolerance, and a judicial system not fit to piss on. .
> 
> Nah, fuck 'em.



I’ve been practising doing a lot less disapproving recently, but can’t argue on this one.


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 11, 2021)

Griff said:


> Yeah, being stuck somewhere indefinitely with our cat at home is a major discouragement at the moment too.


My best mates mum is dying of COPD in Brisbane. Paying for quarantine and how she'd cope if there was a travel ban - she has 3 dogs and one is ancient - imagine the kennels bills-  mean it's unlikely she can get back to Aus until end 2022 when they lift the restrictions.  I'm spending a lot of time caring for my father, I can't afford to get stuck anywhere.


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## weltweit (Jun 11, 2021)

It was unfettered travel that spread the virus so I think I do disapprove yes.


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 11, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> Yeah, fuck Dubai - still, I can understand why some people's desire to go somewhere that isn't Britain for a holiday might extend a little beyond a lack of appreciation for the country's varied landscapes.


Dubai must be more unbearable than ever, my ex client is a fashion model and the entire industry & all the influencers appear to have decamped there, because it's about the only place they can carry on with their photoshoots regardless.


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## Riklet (Jun 11, 2021)

Im not well enough to travel abroad so Im def not thinking of going currently. I can understand the desire to though! I'd love to go to Madeira at some point or to France and see some family/friends but it's not going to happen any time soon. Cos of Covid ive missed the wedding I was best man at... it was postponed and then happened with just the close family last month.

Frankly yes, I think anyone travelling for pure leisure this summer is a bit selfish, yes. That includes people leaving virus hotspots in the UK as well as folk gadding off abroad. Sure I recognise this judgement is problematic and unfair in many ways. They def have a different idea of acceptable risk to me anyway. It's all nonsense anyway - all non essential travel should be banned for the forseeable and quarantine made free and much much better quality etc. La la land fantasies eh.


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## Riklet (Jun 11, 2021)

_._


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## BillRiver (Jun 11, 2021)

I disaprove of anyone who flies anywhere just for a holiday (not to visit loved ones, for example) or any employer that sends staff on an unnecessary  flight (I'd make an exception for a specialist surgeon going to help treat or teach people that can't otherwise be treated or taught, for example).

I think it is selfish and wrong because of climate change etc, even when there is no pandemic. Especially now we have so many ways of communicating online (which I know are not carbon neutral either but...).

I don't object so much to train travel, but I still think not right now, not going abroad.


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## 8ball (Jun 11, 2021)

People who use trains are cunts.  Just not as much as the plane cunts.  Not sure where the bus wankers factor in.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 11, 2021)

girasol said:


> Less deaths, less cases, less variants



Fewer.


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## strung out (Jun 11, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I disaprove of anyone who flies anywhere just for a holiday (not to visit loved ones, for example) or any employer that sends staff on an unnecessary  flight (I'd make an exception for a specialist surgeon going to help treat or teach people that can't otherwise be treated or taught, for example).
> 
> I think it is selfish and wrong because of climate change etc, even when there is no pandemic. Especially now we have so many ways of communicating online (which I know are not carbon neutral either but...).
> 
> I don't object so much to train travel, but I still think not right now, not going abroad.


Alternatively, if communication is so good now, people wanting to travel just to visit loved ones should just stay at home and facetime them, reducing the carbon footprint for us holiday goers who need a break in a hot country.


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## BillRiver (Jun 11, 2021)

strung out said:


> Alternatively, if communication is so good now, people wanting to travel just to visit loved ones should just stay at home and facetime them, reducing the carbon footprint for us holiday goers who need a break in a hot country.



I'm thinking of my Brazilian friend, who has yet to hug her 2 year old nephew, and who wants to go help physically care for her dying, 84 year old, dad. 

Also my Indian friend whose mum was recently diagnosed with Parkinson's - that friend's dad died last year and she'd really like to visit his grave with her mum and to give her mum some hugs.

It gets pretty hot here in England in the summer, nowadays.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 11, 2021)

I think the whole concept of "holidays" - that going for a week somewhere else, with the attendant stress of having to book it and do the travelling, is supposed to make up for the rest of your shit year - is inherently bankrupt.

But I wouldn't criticise anyone for going abroad right now even if I wouldn't _advise_ them to. I'm not going to fall into the bollocks curtain-twitching trap of blaming other people having fun for the spread of covid when, you know, the Tories still exist.


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## BillRiver (Jun 11, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think the whole concept of "holidays" - that going for a week somewhere else, with the attendant stress of having to book it and do the travelling, is suppose to make up for the rest of your shit year - is inherently bankrupt.
> 
> But I wouldn't criticise anyone for going abroad right now even if I wouldn't _advise_ them to. I'm not going to fall into the bollocks curtain-twitching trap of blaming other people having fun for the spread of covid when, you know, the Tories still exist.



People who voted Tory AND fly off on foreign holidays during a pandemic, though...


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 11, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> People who voted Tory AND fly off on foreign holidays during a pandemic, though...


It's the Tory thing that is bad there. I absolutely will always criticise people for voting Tory.


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## dessiato (Jun 11, 2021)

I don't fit well into those categories because I'm not UK based.

I suppose I'm a "going abroad, if the restrictions allow." I'm going to Scotland and England hopefully.


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## rubbershoes (Jun 11, 2021)

In January this year we booked on a late August trip to Thailand . The vaccination programme was rolling out and we were feeling optimistic.

Our belief in whether we were going away fluctuated with the pandemic and vaccination, right up until May, when we found out the airline had cancelled the flights back in February.

 The airline has refunded the money, the hotel hadn't asked for payment, so financially we're square. And we had four months of thinking we may get away.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 12, 2021)

rubbershoes said:


> In January this year we booked on a late August trip to Thailand . The vaccination programme was rolling out and we were feeling optimistic.
> 
> Our belief in whether we were going away fluctuated with the pandemic and vaccination, right up until May, when we found out the airline had cancelled the flights back in February.
> 
> The airline has refunded the money, the hotel hadn't asked for payment, so financially we're square. And we had four months of thinking we may get away.



Planning the trip is half the fun. So you’ve had half at holiday at no cost, jammy bugger.


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## Argonia (Jun 12, 2021)

Work down the mines.


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## Chilli.s (Jun 12, 2021)

Anyone going on holiday at the mo better be prepared for additional quarantine, tests and other assorted inconvenience, if they are good with that then ok. Just not for me.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 12, 2021)

Do what you like. Don't cry if your plans get fucked. Keep out of my way. Simple.


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## moose (Jun 12, 2021)

It's the multi-bookers I don't like - booking several holidays for the same time to cover all scenarios, then cancelling last minute - limiting availability for anyone else, pushing up prices and disrupting holiday providers. Just rude and selfish.


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## rubbershoes (Jun 12, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Planning the trip is half the fun. So you’ve had half at holiday at no cost, jammy bugger.



Same as last year. Road trip through California, Nevada and Arizona . That was a bit more tense as we were planning to go around the end of March. We'd booked it all in Autumn 2019. 

This new disease in China seemed a long long way away at the beginning of the year. I can't remember when we realised we weren't going. But again, we got all our money back. 

Now we have the planning for those two  holidays  ready for when it's possible to take them.


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## Elpenor (Jun 12, 2021)

I really enjoyed my road trip in that area back in 2015 - monument valley was a highlight. I plan to return in 10 years or so.


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## rubbershoes (Jun 12, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> I really enjoyed my road trip in that area back in 2015 - monument valley was a highlight. I plan to return in 10 years or so.



Mrs Shoes hadn't included that on the itinerary. Thanks to covid, I've got another chance to persuade her.


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## spanglechick (Jun 12, 2021)

I haven’t been on holiday abroad for at least five years, initially because I had a financially chaotic alcoholic boyfriend, and latterly because I’m now spending all my money buying my small London house on my own.  

But if I got a big pay rise, would I go away this summer? I don’t think so.  Is it weird that one of the most off-putting things is the idea of flying (and faffing through airports) with a mask on.  I’ll wait.  

I am enormously fortunate. I have a horrible garden, but garden it is - and I have a hammock.  And when you have the infinite luxury of living alone, staycationing is pretty fucking relaxing.  

My sister and her husband just went to Italy (amber) for honeymoon for a week.  They can both work from home so quarantine is fine, and totally could afford to get stranded for a while, I reckon.


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## nottsgirl (Jun 12, 2021)

I'm supposed to be going to London in the summer. I booked it when I thought the vaccine rollout would sort things out. I feel a bit funny about even that. I definitely wouldn't go abroad.


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## l'Otters (Jun 13, 2021)

I think travelling from a country which has a decent vaccination programme to a country which does not is reprehensible. Even if the destination country has a half decent vaccination strategy which is lagging behind the origin country’s it’s still unforgivable.

None of that is in league with the shits who are making and signing off on the travel policies. Or the failure to make the vaccination programme equitable and global. That said, the existence of a greater wrong doesn’t let all individual bad choices off the hook.


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## frogwoman (Jun 13, 2021)

Ive only had a few nights away in Oxford last year. Tbh I don't plan on staying anywhere besides my own bed until I'm fully vaccinated. I don't blame people for going though, including uk holidays, I'm desperate to get away.


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## purenarcotic (Jun 13, 2021)

I don’t judge anyone who does go abroad but I do think it’s naive to think it’s going to be able to happen with any certainty / without disruption until next year. But their time and their money innit. I judge the Government far more harshly for allowing the narrative that it’s safe to go to certain places and then changing their minds half way through like they did with Portugal. It’s disorganised and stupid and an appalling way to treat people. Whilst I’ve come to expect this sort of shitty flip flopping, it’s an absurd way to run a country.


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## miss direct (Jun 13, 2021)

My threatening housemate is going to a Greek island in a couple of weeks. With any luck he'll get stuck there


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## Artaxerxes (Jun 13, 2021)

Airport experience is the fucking shittest most stressful aspect of holidaying at normal times, UK airports especially seem to enjoy squeezing you into the tightest most condensed capitalist shit hole possible, that I'm not sure I could handle airports right now.

I'm also just not sure what I'd do abroad currently, I like the freedom to walk about and just do random things and given I don't feel I can do that here at the moment - spontaneouity is a distant memory - I'm not sure I can do that abroad. What's open, what's not, where are the quick loo's?


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## Orang Utan (Jun 13, 2021)

I might go camping or b&bing near the coast somewhere in August but no way I’m getting on a plane until next year if that. I don’t go on holiday much though as I’m financially chaotic (good phrase, spanglechick ) but I could certainly do with one. I dunno though. It can be lonely going on your own but I equally can’t stand the idea of spending all day with anyone ever.


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## LDC (Jun 13, 2021)

Going to London one night this coming week. What counts for wild times nowadays.


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## kebabking (Jun 13, 2021)

We're off to Northumberland for 10 days in July, then we'll do some camping trips, but an airport? A roulette game of 'am I going to be locked in a hotel room with my kids for 10 days'? Having no real idea about what's open, and with what restrictions?

GTF.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Going to London one night this coming week. What counts for wild times nowadays.


Never seen so many people with northern accents dragging bags around central London as in the last couple of weeks.


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## Artaxerxes (Jun 13, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Never seen so many people with northern accents dragging bags around central London as in the last couple of weeks.



But the conservatives say true northerners have never left the north and hate London?


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## LDC (Jun 13, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Never seen so many people with northern accents dragging bags around central London as in the last couple of weeks.



My accent is so southern I sound almost French I'll have you know.


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## weltweit (Jun 13, 2021)

I think people planning to go abroad are taking a few different gambles, with implications for others not just themselves. 
1) they are gambling that they won't catch covid-19 while they are aboard
2) they are gambling that they will be able to get a clear test for them and their group when the time comes to return home. 
3) they are gambling that they won't get a new variant which might defeat any vaccine they have taken 
4) they are gambling that they won't unwittingly bring a new variant back to the UK with them 
5) they may be gambling that their destination stays on the green or amber lists for the duration of their visit 
6) and they may be gambling that they won't have to do a hotel quaranteen on their return with all the costs associated with that .. 

For me, 3 & 4 are the key issues, because they involve others - other than the immediate vacationers.


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## Reno (Jun 13, 2021)

I'm not disapproving of others but everything is still too unstable for me to go abroad. Two friends are now in Spain because they booked the holiday ages ago and they would have lost the money. One had to pay 120€ for a PCR test in Spain  without the insurance that they would get the result in time for their flight back. The other one is fully vaccinated but when he got there, he was told that they don't know whether they'll recognise his German vaccination passport and whether he can get on the flight back. Not getting home would be more stress for me than it's worth.


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## l'Otters (Jun 13, 2021)

l'Otters said:


> I think travelling from a country which has a decent vaccination programme to a country which does not is reprehensible. Even if the destination country has a half decent vaccination strategy which is lagging behind the origin country’s it’s still unforgivable.
> 
> None of that is in league with the shits who are making and signing off on the travel policies. Or the failure to make the vaccination programme equitable and global. That said, the existence of a greater wrong doesn’t let all individual bad choices off the hook.


Feel I should clarify that this to regarding travel for a holiday, as per the thread title.  There are mitigation steps which could be taken to minimise the transmission risk & in contexts such as to see kin who are not long for this world it would be different.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2021)

Reno said:


> I'm not resentful of others but everything is still too unstable for me to go abroad. Two friends are now in Spain because they booked the holiday ages ago and they would have lost the money. One had to pay 120€ for a PCR test in Spain  without the insurance that they would get the result in time for their flight back. The other one is fully vaccinated but when he got there, he was told that they don't know whether they'll recognise his German vaccination passport and whether he can get on the flight back That would cause me enough stress for me not to bother.


The bureaucracy is definitely the most significant part right now, and international travel is so locked down already that there's no chance of avoiding it.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 14, 2021)

Reno said:


> I'm not disapproving of others but everything is still too unstable for me to go abroad. Two friends are now in Spain because they booked the holiday ages ago and they would have lost the money. One had to pay 120€ for a PCR test in Spain  without the insurance that they would get the result in time for their flight back. The other one is fully vaccinated but when he got there, he was told that they don't know whether they'll recognise his German vaccination passport and whether he can get on the flight back. Not getting home would be more stress for me than it's worth.



You may reassure your vaccinated chum that they’ll be fine. Whoever is the ‘they’ who might not recognise his vaccination passport is irrelevant, Spain to Germany is only of concern to the Germans so the airline check in agent must be satisfied that they will be admitted to Germany, a German vaccination record will of course satisfy that.

There is a huge amount of misinformation regarding travel and Covid right now, I spend pretty much my entire working day sifting through the regulations to work out what is correct, so far I have only had two people denied boarding due to incorrect Covid documents in the past 16 months, and they are particularly stupid people who somehow messed up their entry forms for St Martin. But the information you find online is very misleading, the U.K.’s gov.com site for example states that kids under 11 need no tests to enter the U.K., but their passenger locator form, which acts as an entry permit to the U.K. states kids over 4 need tests. Which is right?


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## Reno (Jun 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You may reassure your vaccinated chum that they’ll be fine. Whoever is the ‘they’ who might not recognise his vaccination passport is irrelevant, Spain to Germany is only of concern to the Germans so the airline check in agent must be satisfied that they will be admitted to Germany, a German vaccination record will of course satisfy that.
> 
> There is a huge amount of misinformation regarding travel and Covid right now, I spend pretty much my entire working day sifting through the regulations to work out what is correct, so far I have only had two people denied boarding due to incorrect Covid documents in the past 16 months, and they are particularly stupid people who somehow messed up their entry forms for St Martin. But the information you find online is very misleading, the U.K.’s gov.com site for example states that kids under 11 need no tests to enter the U.K., but their passenger locator form, which acts as an entry permit to the U.K. states kids over 4 need tests. Which is right?


My friends got their flight, but it's still stressful to be told that they you may not be able to, due to the general confusion over rules.


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## kabbes (Jun 14, 2021)

My friend booked a holiday in Portugal in July for her family of four back in March.  I thought she was nuts to do it then and it’s pretty much panned out exactly as expected — a constant stress of what tests to arrange, changing country safety status, changing local restrictions and generalised anxiety.  My other friend and I have been bemused at every stage — he is normally a big traveler but just decided for largely selfish reasons not to bother in 20 and 21.


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## MickiQ (Jun 14, 2021)

kabbes said:


> he is normally a big traveler but just decided for largely selfish reasons not to bother in 20 and 21.


People doing the right thing for the wrong reason are still doing the right thing


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## krtek a houby (Jun 14, 2021)

Taking a couple of days off (first since the new year) to unwind by the coast. We're driving and it's a quiet area with a promise of rain. Could be a lot worse.


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## kabbes (Jun 14, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> People doing the right thing for the wrong reason are still doing the right thing


Right, it just means that the system of incentives got properly aligned (for once)


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 14, 2021)

I’ll gladly admit to disapproving of people going abroad right now. Unless it’s for genuinely essential reasons - and I have a feeling my definition of that will be somewhat stricter than most - they should be fucking ashamed of themselves.


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## l'Otters (Jun 14, 2021)

weltweit said:


> I think people planning to go abroad are taking a few different gambles, with implications for others not just themselves.
> 1) they are gambling that they won't catch covid-19 while they are aboard
> 2) they are gambling that they will be able to get a clear test for them and their group when the time comes to return home.
> 3) they are gambling that they won't get a new variant which might defeat any vaccine they have taken
> ...


They’re also gambling with the health of all the unvaccinated people who serve them during the course of their holiday.


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## Winot (Jun 25, 2021)

Winot said:


> We are booked to go abroad but on a junkable flight (can reuse till end April 2022). We won’t go unless the country is on the green list.
> 
> (#pollfail)


Have ditched NYC and booked accommodation in Glasgow.


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## Supine (Jun 25, 2021)

Ibiza is not an island I would have chosen for covid safe holidays. Are the clubs open?


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## krtek a houby (Jun 25, 2021)

Supine said:


> Ibiza is not an island I would have chosen for covid safe holidays. Are the clubs open?


Try Formentera across the water. Much quieter.


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## ElizabethofYork (Jun 25, 2021)

Supine said:


> Ibiza is not an island I would have chosen for covid safe holidays. Are the clubs open?


As soon as it went on the green list, I booked my flight.  I don't know or care about the clubs.  I stay in a quiet part of the island


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 25, 2021)

How long was Portugal on the green list for? Every chance the Balearics will be amber again pretty soon, especially as our esteemed government has made it one of the very limited places you can go, cramming everyone in nice and tight...


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 25, 2021)

Balearics on the green watch list, along with Israel, which means they will most likely move to amber very soon. 

Absolute shower of shit in government, just come out and say all travel is off rather than opening and closing places, fucking peoples' plans up at great cost, financially and mentally. Additions to the green list yesterday included Pitcairn Island, Diego Garcia and Antarctica, ffs. Taking the absolute piss.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 25, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Antarctica


Top tips to get glacier-body ready for the summer!


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## 2hats (Jun 25, 2021)

The virus greatly approves and sends thanks.


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## Edie (Jun 25, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Balearics on the green watch list, along with Israel, which means they will most likely move to amber very soon.
> 
> Absolute shower of shit in government, just come out and say all travel is off rather than opening and closing places, fucking peoples' plans up at great cost, financially and mentally. Additions to the green list yesterday included Pitcairn Island, Diego Garcia and Antarctica, ffs. Taking the absolute piss.


I think they just wanted a laugh to be honest. I give no shits about who wants to take a chance going abroad. Good luck to you, hope you pull it off.


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## campanula (Jun 25, 2021)

Nah, but I never go anywhere, anyway, apart from up the A11. Haven't been abroad since 1993, when I spent my student grant on a family jaunt to India for a coupla months. Not unduly bothered by other people's holidays (although I do fret about environmental concerns re. the tourist industry).


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## pbsmooth (Jun 25, 2021)

seeing as holidays are meant to be about relaxing I think all this green/amber business sounds like far too much stress, not to mention places being shut, masks, social distancing. will try and spend some time away from London but within the UK (if you can book anywhere) but a trip abroad seems more hassle than it's worth for me.


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## baldrick (Jun 25, 2021)

Anything that involves an ongoing worry of green/amber/red both before and during, masks, PCR tests that cost a fortune, vaccination certificates, flights that may or may not happen and possible quarantine is not conducive to a good time and therefore I will not be bothering.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 25, 2021)

If people want to take a foreign holiday that's up to them.  I'm not doing it for the time being.  Initially it was because I thought it was the wrong thing to do, now I just can't be arsed with hassle.

As it happens right now its seems pretty fucked in the UK anyway so the damage being done will be to the host country and that's up to them.  I feel very sorry for anyone vulnerable who happens to live in places that have been green listed by the UK and have open borders because they're about to be knee deep in delta variant.


----------



## 2hats (Jun 25, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> the damage being done will be to the host country and that's up to them


In the [very] short-term. But not only them in the mid-term (and possibly not in the long-term either).


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 25, 2021)

I think the right thing for us all to do is to stay put this summer unless we absolutely have to travel. But I'm not going to have a go at people who want to go abroad. I have friends who are desperate to visit families, for instance. 

I do get a little annoyed at people who have been self-righteous during lockdown who are now planning trips, but there it is.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jun 25, 2021)

Not disapprove, but I think that they are taking a hell of a chance in these very uncertain times.


----------



## Espresso (Jun 25, 2021)

I can't say I disapprove, but neither can I muster up much sympathy for the people I see being interviewed on the news complaining about the cost of the tests or having to quarantine. 

I would like to go abroad on holiday. I would like to go and visit family and friends in foreign places. But I'd also like ten million quid. I won't die if I don't get those things and so I will just have to keep plodding on and make do without them.


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 25, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Absolute shower of shit in government, just come out and say all travel is off rather than opening and closing places, fucking peoples' plans up at great cost, financially and mentally. Additions to the green list yesterday included Pitcairn Island, Diego Garcia and Antarctica, ffs. Taking the absolute piss.



Diego fucking Garcia? They might as well add Guantanamo Bay to the list.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 25, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> Diego fucking Garcia? They might as well add Guantanamo Bay to the list.


Maybe all the people who were kicked out are allowed back now?


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 25, 2021)

.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 25, 2021)

Somewhat disapprove, depending on where they're going and why. I mean, I'm also being tortured by ads for sandy beaches and warm seas, but it's just not worth it.


----------



## Supine (Jun 25, 2021)

If the EU start demanding 10 days quarantine for arrivals from UK that could royally screw up a holiday. Buyer beware! Way too risky for me this year.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 25, 2021)

Supine said:


> If the EU start demanding 10 days quarantine for arrivals from UK that could royally screw up a holiday. Buyer beware! Way too risky for me this year.


It's likely to be by country, no? Not EU-wide. A Bulgarian friend of mine is pinning her hopes on the fact that the Bulgarian government is such a bunch of cunts who have mismanaged everything so badly that they won't get it together to impose restrictions - currently it's two jabs and you're in.

It's not looking good for those who have medical reasons not to be vaccinated, though.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 25, 2021)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's likely to be by country, no? Not EU-wide. A Bulgarian friend of mine is pinning her hopes on the fact that the Bulgarian government is such a bunch of cunts who have mismanaged everything so badly that they won't get it together to impose restrictions - currently it's two jabs and you're in.
> 
> It's not looking good for those who have medical reasons not to be vaccinated, though.




It is by country, Spain & Greece won't do it as they want the £'s, their rates will go up as they did last summer. Merkel called for all EU countries to do it, that weaselly little runt Macron came out later in agreement, even though France remains open to fully vaccinated people from the UK.


----------



## 2hats (Jun 25, 2021)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's not looking good for those who have medical reasons not to be vaccinated, though.


Or those who have been vaccinated but have developed poor to no immune response, particularly if they don't realise it.


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Jun 25, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Individual circumstances are more nuanced that that. I already know that summer will be a long haul, my autistic boy will be up hours before anything is open, and my 6 year old is hyper-intelligent and needs stimulating from 6am until 9pm, or just goes nuts. The chance of a week or two where the weather is guaranteed to be good enough for them to play in a pool all day, is the only respite we'll get. We don't have anyone else who can handle them, no-one who even babysits., now the lady who could has got a full time job.
> 
> I've had both jabs and if allowed we'll be away at the end of August. If we can't, we can't, but I won't feel bad if we can


If you happen to live in the North West, check out this agency that has carers who look after autistic children.





__





						Time Specialist Support - Providing quality bespoke support for autistic young people and their families
					

An autism specific befriending and support agency for young people in the North West




					www.time-specialist-support.com


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 25, 2021)

Oh noes, Pitcairn saw a surge in bookings when it was added to the green list last night but look...


----------



## belboid (Jun 25, 2021)

mrsb’s brother n family talked us into booking for a week in Sicily at the beginning of august.  I was always dubious - partly cos of covid but mostly cos I think they were just gonna use us as babysitters - but allowed myself to be talked into it.  

Thankfully, they have just accepted it’s a really bad idea and are looking at alternative arrangements.


----------



## Sue (Jun 25, 2021)

belboid said:


> mrsb’s brother n family talked us into booking for a week in Sicily at the beginning of august.  I was always dubious - partly cos of covid but mostly cos I think they were just gonna use us as babysitters - but allowed myself to be talked into it.
> 
> Thankfully, they have just accepted it’s a really bad idea and are looking at alternative arrangements.


Also be bloody boiling in August.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 25, 2021)

.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 25, 2021)

_Oh but it's been such a tough year, we really need a holiday._

- No, we need _next_ year to be better. And we only get to that point if people stop being cunts.


----------



## smmudge (Jun 25, 2021)

We just booked a group holiday for my sister in law's birthday for 3 nights in majorca, in June 2022. To be honest even that feels like a risk!! 😅

I don't disapprove of anyone trying to have a holiday but definitely not worth the stress for me. It's not like we've worked really hard to get covid levels down and people are jetting off to places worse than us to bring it back.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jun 28, 2021)

smmudge said:


> We just booked a group holiday for my sister in law's birthday for 3 nights in majorca, in June 2022. To be honest even that feels like a risk!! 😅


We're flying out there Friday week. We have to prove double-jab, or PCR negative 72 hours before flight. And to return, you have to test in the 72 hours before your return and PCR test on your 3rd day back.  I'd like to think following this avoids bringing anything back and I was double jabbed a month ago.


----------



## smmudge (Jun 28, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> We're flying out there Friday week. We have to prove double-jab, or PCR negative 72 hours before flight. And to return, you have to test in the 72 hours before your return and PCR test on your 3rd day back.  I'd like to think following this avoids bringing anything back and I was double jabbed a month ago.



See all of that definitely puts me off and I'm hoping won't apply next year, but fair play if you think it's worth it for the holiday. Out of interest what would happen if you tested positive on the 72 before returning one?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 28, 2021)

So, both Portugal and Malta have introduced measures to restrict UK travellers who are not fully vaccinated, and already there're news reports of people moaning about it.   

FFS, these idiots knew the risks they were taking by booking in such unsure circumstances, so they should just STFU.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 28, 2021)

I hear British Antarctic Territory is bracing at this time of year.
Mind you, you’d probably have to travel through a red list country to get there unless you have private means


----------



## Me76 (Jun 28, 2021)

In the before times I would do city breaks abroad 3 times a year. Now, happy to explore this country's cities for the next year or so.  Will be putting money into the UK economy, won't have to worry about not knowing rules in a different country and don't have to worry about testing costs.  I'm not a beach holiday type person and don't go away for weather, so it doesn't bother me. 

I think we should have closed our borders down at the beginning of all this, we're an island ffs and it worked for a lot of other islands.  

Having said that, if the government aren't going to do it, and people want to go, fine.  But don't whinge about extra costs, rules changing, isolating or anything else.  

I know people who's parents are old or ill who haven't been to see them for 2 years or more, and because of costs, or jobs and not being able to get time off are probably not going to see them for a while yet.  So don't fucking whinge cos you had to come home early before your tan was at the level you wanted it.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 28, 2021)

smmudge said:


> Out of interest what would happen if you tested positive on the 72 before returning one?


The airline is supposed to stop you from boarding, and spreading it to other passengers, because the law/rules are clear - if the test result is positive, you must not travel back to the UK.

Whilst being double jabbed provides a high level of protection against severe infection, the protection against any infection is a lot lower, which is why I don't understand people taking the risk of being trapped overseas, under the current rules.  🤷‍♂️


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jun 28, 2021)

smmudge said:


> See all of that definitely puts me off and I'm hoping won't apply next year, but fair play if you think it's worth it for the holiday. Out of interest what would happen if you tested positive on the 72 before returning one?


We'd have to stay until negative. Insurance covers it though and I can work from there. Kids are on school holidays from the day before we go


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jun 30, 2021)

I wonder why the return to UK test you have to do abroad is aged 11 and up, but the day 2 test in the UK is over 4? I'm not moaning about the cost, though I do think there is some severe profiteering going on, because I'm going to take my family on holiday I'm happy to pay to minimise risk for us and everyone else, but this bit seems inconsistent.*

*Granted that inconsistency has been consistent throughout!


----------



## chilango (Jun 30, 2021)

As expected, just formally postponed our trip to France for a year. 

No great surprise or disappointment tbh. We'll go camping here instead.


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 30, 2021)

Mrs Q is currently searching for somewhere for a few days away in the UK, the average cost for a weekend in a cottage in Cornwall is £1000+ and a week at around £3000+, clearly not everyone is losing financially because of the pandemic


----------



## baldrick (Jun 30, 2021)

Yeah it's nuts. I winced at the cost of a week away in August but it is what it is!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 30, 2021)

I’m feeling a combination of smug/relieved that back in October I took a gamble and booked a week in a holiday cottage in Cornwall for this summer at a bargain price


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 30, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> I wonder why the return to UK test you have to do abroad is aged 11 and up, but the day 2 test in the UK is over 4? I'm not moaning about the cost, though I do think there is some severe profiteering going on, because I'm going to take my family on holiday I'm happy to pay to minimise risk for us and everyone else, but this bit seems inconsistent.*
> 
> *Granted that inconsistency has been consistent throughout!




Because the whole system is a shambles.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 30, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’m feeling a combination of smug/relieved that back in October I took a gamble and booked a week in a holiday cottage in Cornwall for this summer at a bargain price




Hope it rains relentlessly


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 30, 2021)

smmudge said:


> See all of that definitely puts me off and I'm hoping won't apply next year, but fair play if you think it's worth it for the holiday. Out of interest what would happen if you tested positive on the 72 before returning one?



Clearly you have to stay put. The bigger risk is one of your party testing positive in the 72 hours before leaving the UK, most free cancellations need more than 72/48 hours notice, you could well lose the lot.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 30, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Hope it rains relentlessly


I’m not made of sugar, rain bothers me not


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 30, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Mrs Q is currently searching for somewhere for a few days away in the UK, the average cost for a weekend in a cottage in Cornwall is £1000+ and a week at around £3000+, clearly not everyone is losing financially because of the pandemic



TBF, they would have lost a lot over the last year or so, so with such high demand now, it's not surprising they are trying to make up on some of those loses, as shitty as that seems for anyone trying to book.


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 30, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Because the whole system is a shambles.


It's hard to argue with that assessment of the situation


----------



## baldrick (Jun 30, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’m feeling a combination of smug/relieved that back in October I took a gamble and booked a week in a holiday cottage in Cornwall for this summer at a bargain price


They'll probably cancel on you last minute to get it rebooked for twice the price.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 30, 2021)

Can they stick Branson’s island on the red list, permanently? Nobody allowed in or out, including food supplies.


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 30, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> Can they stick Branson’s island on the red list, permanently? Nobody allowed in or out, including food supplies.


The Bearded One might not be there at the moment,  Might be in New Mexico playing with his spaceships. Weren't there rumours he might try and best the Evil Overlord in the race to space.


----------



## dessiato (Jun 30, 2021)

Looking at the way things are going in the UK, and comparing that to here, I don't want Brits here. Keep your germs to yourself.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 30, 2021)

I have a flight to Portugal mid-August. Rest of the family over there from the end of term in July (if the flight goes ahead). I can see restrictions changing after they’ve gone leaving me stranded here while they’re on the beach.

(it’s family/childcare more than holiday, kind of nice that the in-laws place is 500m from the seafront  )


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 30, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> I have a flight to Portugal mid-August. Rest of the family over there from the end of term in July (if the flight goes ahead). I can see restrictions changing after they’ve gone leaving me stranded here while they’re on the beach.
> 
> (it’s family/childcare more than holiday, kind of nice that the in-laws place is 500m from the seafront  )


Don’t want to sound patronising but have you checked the recent restrictions on entering Portugal and any local ones where you are staying ?


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 30, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Don’t want to sound patronising but have you checked the recent restrictions on entering Portugal and any local ones where you are staying ?


We’ll both be double-jabbed for over two weeks, so no quarantine based on current rules. Think it’s also slightly laxer for ‘returning nationals’ than holidaymakers so easier for the rest of family (who have citizenship). The MIL will keep us up to date with anything local, we’re up north which I don’t think is the worst place at the moment.

However, I fully expect rules will change when the U.K. is doing 50,000 new cases per day in a couple of weeks because the stupid fucks have lost control of it again.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 30, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> We’ll both be double-jabbed for over two weeks, so no quarantine based on current rules. Think it’s also slightly laxer for ‘returning nationals’ than holidaymakers so easier for the rest of family (who have citizenship). The MIL will keep us up to date with anything local, we’re up north which I don’t think is the worst place at the moment.
> 
> However, I fully expect rules will change when the U.K. is doing 50,000 new cases per day in a couple of weeks because the stupid fucks have lost control of it again.


Good to hear . Lisbon and the Algarve are the problematic areas at the moment , especially the former


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 5, 2021)

We've finally been able to postpone our Italy trip to 2022. Although I'm going to lose around £140 quid on one rail ticket I somehow didn't clock wasn't refundable it's a massive relief to not be going, or to be going and get stuck/end up in a quarantine hotel,  and we've somehow managed to sort a few days in a seaside chalet in West Wales for non-extortionate amounts of cash. Even with the "Covid Freedom" Day, I can't see most of the EU being that keen on Delta variant bearing UK tourists arriving in great numbers.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 5, 2021)

With or without covid, whenever someone tells me about taking an unnecessary flight, in my head I think "do they not know about climate change, or do they doubt it's real, or do they just not care?".

In other words, are they ignorant, or selfish, or both?

Sometimes I say it out loud. Mostly I just think it, and make a mental note of it for future reference. Always good to know who I can trust.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 5, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> With or without covid, whenever someone tells me about taking an unnecessary flight, in my head I think "do they not know about climate change, or do they doubt it's real, or do they just not care?".
> 
> In other words, are they ignorant, or selfish, or both?
> 
> Sometimes I say it out loud. Mostly I just think it, and make a mental note of it for future reference. Always good to know who I can trust.



What flights are _unnecessary_?


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 5, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> What flights are _unnecessary_?


_most are _to be fair


----------



## Glitter (Jul 5, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> _most are _to be fair


Yes. I’d be curious to know which are necessary flights tbh.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 5, 2021)

Glitter said:


> Yes. I’d be curious to know which are necessary flights tbh.



Necessary for what?


----------



## LDC (Jul 5, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> With or without covid, whenever someone tells me about taking an unnecessary flight, in my head I think "do they not know about climate change, or do they doubt it's real, or do they just not care?".
> 
> In other words, are they ignorant, or selfish, or both?
> 
> Sometimes I say it out loud. Mostly I just think it, and make a mental note of it for future reference. Always good to know who I can trust.



Assuming they know about climate change and care about it, and then they still fly, I think they're probably being pragmatic and realistic that them not flying on holiday (or whatever) won't make any actual difference.

Basing who you can trust on whether they fly or not seems a slightly misanthropic, judgemental, and not very helpful position tbh.


----------



## Glitter (Jul 5, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Necessary for what?


Well exactly.

 I’m just interested in where BillRiver ‘s line is.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 5, 2021)

Well obvs there's a class issue that can't be ignored really. Eg, say you've got someone from Plane Stupid who's had the luxury of going abroad on several occasions throughout their life lecturing someone who hasn't had that opportunity and who finds themselves able to go on holiday abroad. The cheapest (and for them maybe the only) way they can take that opportunity is to fly. 

I mean, should they never have that chance? When the other person has? 

It's just not that morally simple.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 5, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> With or without covid, whenever someone tells me about taking an unnecessary flight, in my head I think "do they not know about climate change, or do they doubt it's real, or do they just not care?".
> 
> In other words, are they ignorant, or selfish, or both?
> 
> Sometimes I say it out loud. Mostly I just think it, and make a mental note of it for future reference. Always good to know who I can trust.


What future reference is that then Bill?


----------



## miss direct (Jul 5, 2021)

My horrible housemate is now flying to Ibiza instead of a Greek island. Hopefully asap.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 5, 2021)

Dystopiary said:


> Well obvs there's a class issue that can't be ignored really. Eg, say you've got someone from Plane Stupid who's had the luxury of going abroad on several occasions throughout their life lecturing someone who hasn't had that opportunity and who finds themselves able to go on holiday abroad. The cheapest (and for them maybe the only) way they can take that opportunity is to fly.
> 
> I mean, should they never have that chance? When the other person has?
> 
> It's just not that morally simple.



Completely agree, and do factor that in tbf.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 6, 2021)

Germany is to stop requiring fully vaccinated arrivals from the UK having to quarantine from tomorrow. They imposed a 14 day quarantine to stop the delta variant coming in, but weren't checking for it. They've now had a look and seen that it is everywhere. Same will be true for all of Europe already. Ffs it is even running wild in prison-continent Australia.

Later this week UK govt will announce that fully vaccinated folk can enter from green and amber countries with no quarantine, hopefully with just one PCR test before travelling and that's it. That will mean travel is open again. As seen on this thread many people are uncomfortable with that, fearing it is too soon. Maybe it is, but at some point we need to get moving again, so if not now, when?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Germany is to stop requiring fully vaccinated arrivals from the UK having to quarantine from tomorrow. They imposed a 14 day quarantine to stop the delta variant coming in, but weren't checking for it. They've now had a look and seen that it is everywhere. Same will be true for all of Europe already. Ffs it is even running wild in prison-continent Australia.
> 
> Later this week UK govt will announce that fully vaccinated folk can enter from green and amber countries with no quarantine, hopefully with just one PCR test before travelling and that's it. That will mean travel is open again. As seen on this thread many people are uncomfortable with that, fearing it is too soon. Maybe it is, but at some point we need to get moving again, so if not now, when?



Where have you seen that re the return UK testing? We fly to Mallorca next Friday, subject to the wife's Wednesday PCR being negative, but we then have video call certified LFTs for both us before we come back, and PCR tests for us and both kids within the 2 days of when we return.

Test costs in total £296!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Later this week UK govt will announce that fully vaccinated folk can enter from green and amber countries with no quarantine, hopefully with just one PCR test before travelling and that's it. That will mean travel is open again. As seen on this thread many people are uncomfortable with that, fearing it is too soon. Maybe it is, but at some point we need to get moving again, so if not now, when?


Will they?  I'm buggering off to Ibiza on Saturday, so that'll be interesting.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 7, 2021)

What happens if you turn up with a positive test or no test at all, do they refuse to let you get on the plane?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 7, 2021)

kebabking said:


> not anything lacking in the astonishingly beautiful and varied country in which we live.
> 
> For me, potentially exposing yourself to new variants and then bringing in them back is as selfish and harmful to others - and should be as socially unacceptable - as drink-driving.



Low prices are lacking. The OH showed me an Air BnB last night that wanted 2k for 5 nights in the Autumn. It was nothing special. That's 2-3 months in Greece.

The selfishness is *us* taking our nasty varients to *them* the poor foreigners. Abroad (in general) is Covid safer than the UK. We're the problem not them.

We booked a place in France. Eurostar over for a week. Yes we're selfish. In October though. Hoping shit will be better for us and them by then


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 7, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> What happens if you turn up with a positive test or no test at all, do they refuse to let you get on the plane?


Yup


----------



## 19sixtysix (Jul 7, 2021)

Other half persuaded me to book to go visit his old friend in Sitges Spain for the fiesta which is running in August. We've got changeable flights for £100 each so not a disaster if(when) it doesn't happen. I've also said I'm not going without decent insurance. It does feel a bit of a gamble but it'd be nice to see his old pal and swim in the sea (I've tried up here in Scotland but ...).


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 7, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> What happens if you turn up with a positive test or no test at all, do they refuse to let you get on the plane?




If you show up with a positive test you are a massive cunt for leaving the house in the first place. if you have no test you will not be allowed to board the flight.

Spain & Germany need no tests for vaccinated people. The UK hasn't yet said what if any it will require of fully vaccinated people, but to carry on with one prior to travel and a day two test is out of step with everywhere else and costs a lot. Unvaccinated children under 18 travelling with families will be subject to the same restrictions as their vaccinated parents.

Also there is to be a trial of fast track immigration from a few places, Athens being one, where your vaccination status etc. is accounted for at the check in desk upon departure rather than at the border control desk on arrival.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> If you show up with a positive test you are a massive cunt for leaving the house in the first place. if you have no test you will not be allowed to board the flight.
> 
> Spain & Germany need no tests for vaccinated people. The UK hasn't yet said what if any it will require of fully vaccinated people, but to carry on with one prior to travel and a day two test is out of step with everywhere else and costs a lot. Unvaccinated children under 18 travelling with families will be subject to the same restrictions as their vaccinated parents.
> 
> Also there is to be a trial of fast track immigration from a few places, Athens being one, where your vaccination status etc. is accounted for at the check in desk upon departure rather than at the border control desk on arrival.


I shall continue to feel smug about my complete lack of foreign travel plans then, I look forward to stories in the Mirror about angry Brits stranded at airports owing to them not realising they needed one and whinging this isn't the Brexit they voted for.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 7, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I shall continue to feel smug about my complete lack of foreign travel plans then, I look forward to stories in the Mirror about angry Brits stranded at airports owing to them not realising they needed one and whinging this isn't the Brexit they voted for.




The big risk to travel right now is if a family of four is headed to Spain or wherever, the kids will need a test and if taken the day before travel and it comes up positive you lose the whole holiday unless you have managed to track down insurance that covers it. Likewise the test on the day prior to your return could see a kid forced to quarantine in Spain for 2 weeks when you are due back at work and they at school...


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The big risk to travel right now is if a family of four is headed to Spain or wherever, the kids will need a test and if taken the day before travel and it comes up positive you lose the whole holiday unless you have managed to track down insurance that covers it. Likewise the test on the day prior to your return could see a kid forced to quarantine in Spain for 2 weeks when you are due back at work and they at school...


Jet 2 single trip insurance covers someone testing positive.

For our trip, I'm working from there anyway, so if we had to stay a bit, I'd carry on. The kids are finished school when we leave and the wife doesn't work at the mo. 

If the kids were due back at school, we wouldn't go for the risk of being delayed out there, or a rule change that means we have to quarantine on return. As it is, I'd we had to quarantine on return, that's no issue


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The big risk to travel right now is if a family of four is headed to Spain or wherever, the kids will need a test and if taken the day before travel and it comes up positive you lose the whole holiday unless you have managed to track down insurance that covers it. Likewise the test on the day prior to your return could see a kid forced to quarantine in Spain for 2 weeks when you are due back at work and they at school...


Kids don't need a test to go


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 7, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Kids don't need a test to go




Depends what you mean by kids, for Spain that means people under 12, for Greece it is under 6.

Edit, from 12th July Greece ups the age to 12.


----------



## bimble (Jul 7, 2021)

Switzerland  (where my parents are) is the same- either a negative test OR proof of being fully vaccinated. I'm just hoping i get the proof of vax status in time for planned trip, am cutting it fine.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Depends what you mean by kids, for Spain that means people under 12, for Greece it is under 6.
> 
> Edit, from 12th July Greece ups the age to 12.


Yeah, sorry, should have said under 12. What do find bizarre is that for the return uk tests, the one you do before coming back is 12 and up, but the day tests after return is older than 4. So my kids don't have to do the first but do have to do the 2nd


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 7, 2021)

bimble said:


> Switzerland  (where my parents are) is the same- either a negative test OR proof of being fully vaccinated. I'm just hoping i get the proof of vax status in time for planned trip, am cutting it fine.




Ehrm, Switzerland still considers the UK to be a high risk country, Corona: Questions and answers on entry and stay in Switzerland, the exceptions and suspension of visas


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 7, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Yeah, sorry, should have said under 12. What do find bizarre is that for the return uk tests, the one you do before coming back is 12 and up, but the day tests after return is older than 4. So my kids don't have to do the first but do have to do the 2nd




Yeah, it's properly muddled up and really confusing.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The big risk to travel right now is if a family of four is headed to Spain or wherever, the kids will need a test and if taken the day before travel and it comes up positive you lose the whole holiday unless you have managed to track down insurance that covers it. Likewise the test on the day prior to your return could see a kid forced to quarantine in Spain for 2 weeks when you are due back at work and they at school...


Well my kids are adults now (Youngest is 19) and  wouldn't come with us but I feel even smugger thinking about that. We're not even having a holiday in the UK just  days out when Mrs Q finishes school for the summer.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 7, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Well my kids are adults now (Youngest is 19) and  wouldn't come with us but I feel even smugger thinking about that. We're not even having a holiday in the UK just  days out when Mrs Q finishes school for the summer.


Is it CoVId related smugness? If your vaxxed and/or tested and the same coming back, what more could you do protect yourself and others?


----------



## bimble (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Ehrm, Switzerland still considers the UK to be a high risk country, Corona: Questions and answers on entry and stay in Switzerland, the exceptions and suspension of visas


Doesn’t matter, proof of vaccinated status still allows entry.


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 7, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Is it CoVId related smugness? If your vaxxed and/or tested and the same coming back, what more could you do protect yourself and others?


Not travel from a country with lots of COVID cases to one with a lot fewer.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 8, 2021)

spanglechick said:


> Not travel from a country with lots of COVID cases to one with a lot fewer.


Point taken. In our defence, the numbers were pretty similar when we decided early in June, that we'd try and get away at the start of the kids summer holidays. Changed a lot since 😔


----------



## kabbes (Jul 8, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Depends what you mean by kids, for Spain that means people under 12, for Greece it is under 6.
> 
> Edit, from 12th July Greece ups the age to 12.


Where’s the logic in that?  Kids are just as much a vector of the disease as adults are.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Where’s the logic in that?  Kids are just as much a vector of the disease as adults are.


I think we are all saying it's illogical


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Where’s the logic in that?  Kids are just as much a vector of the disease as adults are.



Logic? Have you seen any government deploy logic during this whole pandemic?


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 8, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Is it CoVId related smugness? If your vaxxed and/or tested and the same coming back, what more could you do protect yourself and others?


Actually no it's not related to CoVID at all, If I was able to go somewhere without having to worry about all this testing or isolation nonsense then I'd do it. What I'm feeling smug about is not having to book a holiday, wonder if it will get cancelled at the last moment, sort out tests just before we go, run the risk of having to quarantiine at the other end, sort out another test on holiday in a foreign land, risk being stranded there and having to hunt for somewhere to stay (maybe not finding anywhere), sort out more foreign tests, rinse and repeat until (a lot poorer)  I finally get on a plane home, risk being stuffed in some crappy airport hotel for a week. To add insult to injury I would be expected to pay for all this shit as well. I just can't be arsed with any of it I go on holiday to relax, get a break and catch some sunshine. 
Set against all the potential aggro, the possibility of catching CoVID doesn't bother me at all, even the possibility of being patient zero for the super deadly Epsilon strain with a 50% death rate doesn't bother me as much as the thought of all the aggro I would have to go through to be able to sunbathe on a Spanish beach rather than my own patio.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 8, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Actually no it's not related to CoVID at all, If I was able to go somewhere without having to worry about all this testing or isolation nonsense then I'd do it. What I'm feeling smug about is not having to book a holiday, wonder if it will get cancelled at the last moment, sort out tests just before we go, run the risk of having to quarantiine at the other end, sort out another test on holiday in a foreign land, risk being stranded there and having to hunt for somewhere to stay (maybe not finding anywhere), sort out more foreign tests, rinse and repeat until (a lot poorer)  I finally get on a plane home, risk being stuffed in some crappy airport hotel for a week. To add insult to injury I would be expected to pay for all this shit as well. I just can't be arsed with any of it I go on holiday to relax, get a break and catch some sunshine.
> Set against all the potential aggro, the possibility of catching CoVID doesn't bother me at all, even the possibility of being patient zero for the super deadly Epsilon strain with a 50% death rate doesn't bother me as much as the thought of all the aggro I would have to go through to be able to sunbathe on a Spanish beach rather than my own patio.


Yeah, can't say it's been aggro free arranging it all, and after all of the admin and costs, if my missus tests positive before we go, we're not. (That said I've done all the arranging, my kids don't know about it yet for fear we have to cancel, so 3/4 of us have had no aggro!)

On the other side of the coin, most of the costs in the situations you've mentioned are covered by our insurance.


----------



## prunus (Jul 8, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> We're flying out there Friday week. We have to prove double-jab, or PCR negative 72 hours before flight. And to return, you have to test in the 72 hours before your return and PCR test on your 3rd day back.  I'd like to think following this avoids bringing anything back and I was double jabbed a month ago.



You might like to think that but unfortunately it doesn’t.  It definitely lowers the probability significantly, but being double-jabbed only gives about 65% protection against infection, and 72 hours testing windows (either side of return) is plenty of time to pick up and spread an infection - conversely (and perversely) 72 hours post return may be too short a time for an infection picked up prior to departure to have developed sufficiently to be detected. 

Not having a go, it’s all about risk assessments at the moment, but it’s important I think that people are aware that mitigation strategies only mitigate risk, they don’t as you express the hope that they do eliminate it.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 8, 2021)

prunus said:


> You might like to think that but unfortunately it doesn’t.  It definitely lowers the probability significantly, but being double-jabbed only gives about 65% protection against infection, and 72 hours testing windows (either side of return) is plenty of time to pick up and spread an infection - conversely (and perversely) 72 hours post return may be too short a time for an infection picked up prior to departure to have developed sufficiently to be detected.
> 
> Not having a go, it’s all about risk assessments at the moment, but it’s important I think that people are aware that mitigation strategies only mitigate risk, they don’t as you express the hope that they do eliminate it.


Yes, I accept we're only reducing risk, not eliminating. We're also testing the kids with NHS kits before we go, as we aren't required to test them to travel, and if they were positive we'd report it and cancel.


----------



## bimble (Jul 8, 2021)

I feel really conflicted about this trip i've planned for end of the month. My parents are ridiculously happy that i'm coming to see them but it's just a guess really on my part that doing it now is better than trying to do it later in the year.


----------



## prunus (Jul 8, 2021)

bimble said:


> I feel really conflicted about this trip i've planned for end of the month. My parents are ridiculously happy that i'm coming to see them but it's just a guess really on my part that doing it now is better than trying to do it later in the year.



I think it’s pretty much a certainty that the prevalence of virus now is less than it will be for the rest of this year - it’s both the government’s official strategy and what people warning against the government’s strategy expect to happen (I suppose there may be a point in say November when cases have come back down again after an emergency lockdown is re-introduced in October following a catastrophic September surge, but that would be moot for your travel plans as, well, lockdown).


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 8, 2021)

bimble said:


> I feel really conflicted about this trip i've planned for end of the month. My parents are ridiculously happy that i'm coming to see them but it's just a guess really on my part that doing it now is better than trying to do it later in the year.


You can go now, you can't be sure if you can in future. If you parents are of a certain age, there is only so much time, as horrible as that is to consider. We spent 15 months with the kids seeing my folks, masked up inside their window, kids stood just inside their front garden, for 5 mins each Sunday. Now they are jabbed, the kids go inside for an hour each week. We're all still scared, but my Dad nearly died last summer, is 75 today, with Parkinsons, if not now, when?


----------



## bimble (Jul 8, 2021)

Yep exactly, happy birthday your dad.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 9, 2021)

And still feeling smug









						Covid: Travellers returning to England warned of six-hour airport queues
					

Border Force staff will struggle to deal with a surge in passengers over the summer, a union says.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## kabbes (Jul 9, 2021)

kabbes said:


> My friend booked a holiday in Portugal in July for her family of four back in March.  I thought she was nuts to do it then and it’s pretty much panned out exactly as expected — a constant stress of what tests to arrange, changing country safety status, changing local restrictions and generalised anxiety.


Would you believe that having had this trip cancelled, she then booked _another_ trip in the same time slot — to Ibiza this time — and now that one has been cancelled too?  I’d like to say that I managed to express some sympathy but I’m afraid I’m just not that good an actor.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 9, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> And still feeling smug
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When have ever Border Control not struggled to deal  with passengers in July and August ?


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 9, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> When have ever Border Control not struggled to deal  with passengers in July and August ?


That's usually the time of year the Q's go through passport control and I've certainly never taken longer than 20-30 mins tops to go from landing to stuffing the suitcases in the boot of the car


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 9, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> That's usually the time of year the Q's go through passport control and I've certainly never taken longer than 20-30 mins tops to go from landing to stuffing the suitcases in the boot of the car


Try arriving in Manchester , it’s carnage . Mind you the late flight to Faro is queue city


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 9, 2021)

The Windsor Suite reopens on 15th July, no queues in there, some people just like to moan.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 9, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The Windsor Suite reopens on 15th July, no queues in there, some people just like to moan.


I bet these arseholes don't have to take their belts and shoes off.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 9, 2021)

The current Javid / Johnson thinking, that double vaccinated people can return from abroad without quarantine (though with tests) runs the risk of people bringing back new variants into the UK. We can see how fast a new variant can spread by the cases of Delta in the UK at the moment. Get just one new variant that escapes the vaccine in here and we are all sitting ducks. 

IMO It is too early to open up international travel.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2021)

weltweit said:


> The current Javid / Johnson thinking, that double vaccinated people can return from abroad without quarantine (though with tests) runs the risk of people bringing back new variants into the UK. We can see how fast a new variant can spread by the cases of Delta in the UK at the moment. Get just one new variant that escapes the vaccine in here and we are all sitting ducks.
> 
> IMO It is too early to open up international travel.



TBF, the ways thing are going, I think the UK could become world leader in producing & exporting new variants.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 9, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> TBF, the ways thing are going, I think the UK could become world leader in producing & exporting new variants.



The U.K. currently has some of the toughest restrictions in Europe;

Germany allows you in with no tests at all if vaccinated.
Likewise Spain and Italy (for 5 days max from the U.K.)
France requires one test.

and so on.

At some point things need to open, sure the numbers of infections here are going through the roof, but deaths and hospitalisations, whilst rising a bit, are not going up anywhere near in line with the infection rate. Germany’s death rate is almost identical to ours with only 10% of the infections. At some point we have to trust the vaccines and get back to normal, sure it is not 100% effective, neither is the flu vaccine, we seem to be happy with thousands of flu deaths each year, surely at some point we need to accept the same with Covid??


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2021)

Did you mean to quote weltweit, Bahnhof Strasse? 

Because, your reply has nothing to do with my post, that you actually quoted.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 9, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Did you mean to quote weltweit, Bahnhof Strasse?
> 
> Because, your reply has nothing to do with my post, that you actually quoted.



No, I quoted you. I don’t see why the U.K. should be variant central when other local countries are far more open than we are.

Germany closed the doors to us until last week cos of Delta Variant; for every positive Covid test we had we test 50% for variants, Germany test less than 2%. Once they actually started looking they saw it was everywhere, which is why they no longer view it as a danger.

The U.K., India and South Africa test a huge percentage of positive cases for variants and guess what, they get to see them first, then get blamed for them. I have never taken a Covid test, so I am 100% Covid and variant free…


----------



## Me76 (Jul 9, 2021)

I've had my summer holiday this year. Went to Bath for 2 days.   It was lovely and I enjoyed it just as much as if I'd gone to another country.  

Still worried about whether I've been infected though, it was busy.  But I will take a lft on Sunday and see.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> No, I quoted you. I don’t see why the U.K. should be variant central when other local countries are far more open than we are.



My point was about the rates of infection going through the roof in the UK, and we are about to drop all internal restrictions, including bloody masks, and let it rip. The more virus circulating, the bigger the chance of another mutation, and another unpleasant variant for us to export, but that's a problem for other countries if they want to let travellers from the UK in. 

I am fairly relaxed about the opening up to certain countries by making it easier for travel & return to the UK, if they have lower infection rates, whilst keeping a tight lock on 'red list' countries, because as you say, it has to happen at some point. 



> Germany closed the doors to us until last week cos of Delta Variant; for every positive Covid test we had we test 50% for variants, Germany test less than 2%. Once they actually started looking they saw it was everywhere, which is why they no longer view it as a danger.



Yes, I am aware of that, and whilst Delta is already there, it hasn't taken off like it has here yet, considering we are averaging around 30k new cases a day, and they are only on around 700, with a larger population.  

So, they still rightly consider us an ‘high-incidence area’, and you still need a negative COVID-19 test result, proof of a full COVID-19 vaccination or proof of recovery from an infection to avoid quarantine, so that massively reduces the risk of a UK traveller bringing in more of the Delta variant and acting as a super spreader. But, they are still taking a gamble. 



> The U.K., India and South Africa test a huge percentage of positive cases for variants and guess what, they get to see them first, then get blamed for them.



I am not convinced it as clear cut as that, sure the UK leads the world in genomic sequencing, and it's possible that is why we picked up on the Kent variant first, but it's highly likely it did mutant here, because we saw the massive uptick in cases before any other other country, then it started to be picked-up elsewhere, followed by them seeing the massive uptick in overall cases.

In fact, India does very little genomic sequencing*, and indeed very little general testing, running at under one tenth of the UK, yet they still spotted the Delta amongst a massive uptick in cases, before it then got picked-up elsewhere, resulting in massive uptick in overall cases in those countries.  

* India has sequenced 11,047 of the 1.4 million samples sequenced worldwide. 

The bottom line remains, the more virus circulating, the greater the chances of it mutating into a more troublesome variant, it's basic maths.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Jul 10, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Also there is to be a trial of fast track immigration from a few places, Athens being one, where your vaccination status etc. is accounted for at the check in desk upon departure rather than at the border control desk on arrival.


Ooh that's good news as I'm booked to go to Athens in October. This looks like the way forward to me.


----------



## metalguru (Jul 10, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> At some point we have to trust the vaccines and get back to normal, sure it is not 100% effective, neither is the flu vaccine, we seem to be happy with thousands of flu deaths each year, surely at some point we need to accept the same with Covid??


At some point? The Covid vaccines are incredibly new....When development was started last year, it wasn't even certain they would be viable. With the 19th July approach, we're gambling a lot on their effectiveness


----------



## weltweit (Jul 10, 2021)

If a new variant occurs which escapes our vaccines, you can be sure that relaxed rules on international travel will bring it here. And then we will be back to square one.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 10, 2021)

weltweit said:


> If a new variant occurs which escapes our vaccines, you can be sure that relaxed rules on international travel will bring it here. And then we will be back to square one.




Science says that they are certain that any mutant strain can be dealt with via the vaccines, in their current state or with a tiny tweak, so we wont be back at square one at all.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Science says that they are certain that any mutant strain can be dealt with via the vaccines, in their current state or with a tiny tweak, so we wont be back at square one at all.



Yep, and the mRNA vaccines can be tweaked very quickly.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 10, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Science says that they are certain that any mutant strain can be dealt with via the vaccines, in their current state or with a tiny tweak, so we wont be back at square one at all.


Screw the science, I'm still waiting for my superpowers, stick some radioactive spider venom in it next time


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 10, 2021)

I may or may not go to Ibiza in September.  Depends on whether it's still allowed and looks like 'fun', which I guess itself will be determined by the threat level of the virus.  I will have had 2 doses of vaccine by then.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 10, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Science says that they are certain that any mutant strain can be dealt with via the vaccines, in their current state or with a tiny tweak, so we wont be back at square one at all.


If a new variant emerges that escapes our current vaccines our population will be defenceless until it is once again fully vaccinated with a new vaccine. That is what I mean about square 1. 


cupid_stunt said:


> Yep, and the mRNA vaccines can be tweaked very quickly.


They still have to be put in arms, a process that takes some time.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 10, 2021)

eta: To a new variant that escapes our current vaccines, Britain will look like a land with 66,600,000 people ready to infect. It would be a race between the virus and any new vaccines. I wonder what the hospitalisation rates would be then?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2021)

weltweit said:


> eta: To a new variant that escapes our current vaccines, Britain will look like a land with 66,600,000 people ready to infect. It would be a race between the virus and any new vaccines. I wonder what the hospitalisation rates would be then?



There's been dozens of variants of SARS-Cov2 so far, with only about 4 causing some concern, resulting in slight reductions in the efficacy of vaccines towards serious illness & death.

If you seriously think a new variant is likely to totally overcome the vaccines, and send us back to square one, you are suffering from a very special level of paranoia.


----------



## tommers (Jul 10, 2021)

I didn't care and then I saw the news and people were talking about travel sites being 50% more busy then before and it just depressed me. Nothing against people who are doing it, just that everybody thinks of themselves, "well, we deserve a holiday" or whatever. And if everybody does that then we end up with loads of people flying, spreading covid and fucking up the planet. Nobody is individually to blame for that but collectively, as a species, we're fucking doomed. 

I mean, I'm the same, I drive the kids to school if it's raining, I drive to the supermarket which is a 10 minute walk away etc etc. We're all the fucking same.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 10, 2021)

tommers said:


> I didn't care and then I saw the news and people were talking about travel sites being 50% more busy then before and it just depressed me. Nothing against people who are doing it, just that everybody thinks of themselves, "well, we deserve a holiday" or whatever. And if everybody does that then we end up with loads of people flying, spreading covid and fucking up the planet. Nobody is individually to blame for that but collectively, as a species, we're fucking doomed.
> 
> I mean, I'm the same, I drive the kids to school if it's raining, I drive to the supermarket which is a 10 minute walk away etc etc. We're all the fucking same.



Bear in mind many of us haven't flown for 2 years.  I would _like_ to go abroad this year, but even pre-covid I cut the number of times I would fly a year (due to climate change).  Whether it's by enough, I don't know, but I've changed my lifestyle in other ways too to hopefully reduce my carbon footprint.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 10, 2021)

Well I'm in Ibiza.  All smooth and straightforward.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 10, 2021)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Well I'm in Ibiza.  All smooth and straightforward.



From what I've read elsewhere, the bar scene there now seems pretty good.  How were flights? I'm assuming no drinking on the plane.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 10, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> If you seriously think a new variant is likely to totally overcome the vaccines, and send us back to square one, you are suffering from a very special level of paranoia.


Let's hope that is the case.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 10, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Let's hope that is the case.



New variants of covid (or many other diseases) will always be a threat, though.  How long can you reasonably shut down foreign travel for?


----------



## weltweit (Jul 10, 2021)

Johnny Vodka said:


> New variants of covid (or many other diseases) will always be a threat, though.  How long can you reasonably shut down foreign travel for?


I don't know the answer to that, I do know that international travel was how the delta variant got here though.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Jul 11, 2021)

No I don't begrudge people going on holiday if it's within the rules of both the UK and the country they want to visit. 

I was very lucky to get to Greece last year in October for 10 days. I shouldn't have been able to go really, the rules should've prevented me but fuck it I was able to. Apart from the squeaky bum of whether we would actually be able to go or not, which sort of ruined the excitement pre holiday, it was all rather easy. Just filled out a passenger locator form and that was that. It's definitely much harder to travel this year, as it should be.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 11, 2021)

weltweit said:


> I don't know the answer to that, I do know that international travel was how the delta variant got here though.


Was all the testing to get in here now mandated then? Genuine question, I don't know and as noted by prunus up thread, testing reduces, not eliminates the risk, I know


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 11, 2021)

Johnny Vodka said:


> From what I've read elsewhere, the bar scene there now seems pretty good.  How were flights? I'm assuming no drinking on the plane.


All fine.  Yes, drinks were served on the flight.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 11, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Was all the testing to get in here now mandated then? Genuine question, I don't know and as noted by prunus up thread, testing reduces, not eliminates the risk, I know


Testing probably less early on. 

Allowing double jabbed people to avoid quarantine sounds to me like a fail, double jabbed people can be infected and spread it, if they are walking around between tests, spreading seems to me inevitable.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Actually no it's not related to CoVID at all, If I was able to go somewhere without having to worry about all this testing or isolation nonsense then I'd do it. What I'm feeling smug about is not having to book a holiday, wonder if it will get cancelled at the last moment, sort out tests just before we go, run the risk of having to quarantiine at the other end, sort out another test on holiday in a foreign land, risk being stranded there and having to hunt for somewhere to stay (maybe not finding anywhere), sort out more foreign tests, rinse and repeat until (a lot poorer)  I finally get on a plane home, risk being stuffed in some crappy airport hotel for a week. To add insult to injury I would be expected to pay for all this shit as well. I just can't be arsed with any of it I go on holiday to relax, get a break and catch some sunshine.
> Set against all the potential aggro, the possibility of catching CoVID doesn't bother me at all, even the possibility of being patient zero for the super deadly Epsilon strain with a 50% death rate doesn't bother me as much as the thought of all the aggro I would have to go through to be able to sunbathe on a Spanish beach rather than my own patio.


if it's any comfort there's no chance of you being patient zero for the epsilon variant Epsilon variant of COVID-19 more resistant to vaccines, finds study: All you need to know-Health News , Firstpost


----------



## 2hats (Jul 13, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> if it's any comfort there's no chance of you being patient zero for the epsilon variant Epsilon variant of COVID-19 more resistant to vaccines, finds study: All you need to know-Health News , Firstpost


The key point mutation in epsilon is L452R which it shares in common with delta and related lineages.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 13, 2021)

I'm not going to criticise people going abroad, though I'm not very fond of those demanding the 'right' to go abroad in a pandemic.  As a different question, I'm so sorry for those who haven't seen family in ages, particularly things like elderly parents.  Really awful for them.    Ultimately it should be seen as an issue of policy in a pandemic: is it a good idea to have, presumably, tens of thousands of people moving round Europe in the middle of a pandemic, most of them on flights breathing the same air?

It's not just about personal travel. Any government taking the pandemic seriously would have closed the borders other than for freight and essential travel.  Working out what was essential travel, who got it and how to avoid people scamming it would have been difficult of course, but not a reason for leaving the borders open.  If they'd done that, working out how to open up the holiday sector would be from a very different starting point than the one we are at now.

Edit: Short version - all the government's choices now are fucked up by their previous failures and fuck ups.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 14, 2021)

Friday's flight to Mallorca could be off! If The Balearics go red....


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 14, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Friday's flight to Mallorca could be off! If The Balearics go red....
> View attachment 278475




Unforeseeable...



Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Every chance the Balearics will be amber again pretty soon, especially as our esteemed government has made it one of the very limited places you can go, cramming everyone in nice and tight...


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 14, 2021)

Wilf said:


> Edit: Short version - all the government's choices now are fucked up by their previous failures and fuck ups.


 Indeed. If Friday's trip is cancelled for us, due to the review tomorrow, the Government will have convinced me not to book anything else. It's the uncertainty that will kill the travel industry


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Unforeseeable...



Is this going to cause ElizabethofYork a problem coming back?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 14, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Is this going to cause ElizabethofYork a problem coming back?



If they make it red, then yes, massively. I get the feeling the Balearics will go to amber though, there would be outrage if they did move it to red having basically told everyone that there and Malta are the only safe places to go.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> If they make it red, then yes, massively. I get the feeling the Balearics will go to amber though, there would be outrage if they did move it to red having basically told everyone that there and Malta are the only safe places to go.


Red = managed quarantine hotel, what ever you vax status, I think?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 14, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Red = managed quarantine hotel, what ever you vax status, I think?




Yes, at £1750 for 1st adult, £650 for subsequent adults and £325 per child, so you can all sit in one hotel room trying not to kill each other for 10 days whilst occasionally being served a plate of stuff that looks a bit like food. And if you're really lucky you can be sexually harassed by your guards at no extra cost.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yes, at £1750 for 1st adult, £650 for subsequent adults and £325 per child, so you can all sit in one hotel room trying not to kill each other for 10 days whilst occasionally being served a plate of stuff that looks a bit like food. And if you're really lucky you can be sexually harassed by your guards at no extra cost.


Jesus. If it went red tomorrow, I'd assume Jet 2 will cancel and refund us, but if it goes amber, we're probably going. The question is then, could it go to red while we are out there, or would be sent home inbetween any announcement of that and it coming into force


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 14, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Jesus. If it went red tomorrow, I'd assume Jet 2 will cancel and refund us, but if it goes amber, we're probably going. The question is then, could it go to red while we are out there, or would be sent home inbetween any announcement of that and it coming into force




I imagine Jet2 would stop flying straight away and you'd get a refund. If it went red whist you are away then you'd be in a mad scramble to get back before the deadline, they often give 4 days notice. In such a situation I would not rely on Jet 2 or whatever tour operator you have, just get the fuck out of Dodge as quickly as you can, will be cheaper and less shit than the alternative.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 14, 2021)

I read that a lot of people seem to be booking “provisional” flights back using miles, these can be cancelled if not required with a few hrs notice


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 14, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Is this going to cause ElizabethofYork a problem coming back?


Thanks Spymaster.  Just looking into it now.  If the islands go amber we should be okay as we've both been double jabbed.  I'll be keeping a keen eye on the news.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yes, at £1750 for 1st adult, £650 for subsequent adults and £325 per child, so you can all sit in one hotel room trying not to kill each other for 10 days whilst occasionally being served a plate of stuff that looks a bit like food. And if you're really lucky you can be sexually harassed by your guards at no extra cost.


Bit like a week at Pontins then eh?


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yes, at £1750 for 1st adult, £650 for subsequent adults and £325 per child, so you can all sit in one hotel room trying not to kill each other for 10 days whilst occasionally being served a plate of stuff that looks a bit like food. And if you're really lucky you can be sexually harassed by your guards at no extra cost.


Like a little extra bonus holliday.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 14, 2021)

With regulations changing all the time it seems risky to travel anywhere unless you have lots of time and money to spare - just in case you get stuck / ill / quarantined.  
Besides I don't feel safe on a bus never mind a plane.   We won't be going anywhere for the foreseeable. maybe ever.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 14, 2021)

Ibiza, Majorca and Menorca moved to amber list.

Ibiza, Majorca and Menorca moved to amber list



> It is understood that data indicates a big rise in cases in the Balearic Islands following end-of-term parties.


----------



## miss direct (Jul 14, 2021)

I thought announcement was tomorrow?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 14, 2021)

miss direct said:


> I thought announcement was tomorrow?




They are all over the sodding place.


----------



## Glitter (Jul 14, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Bit like a week at Pontins then eh?



_Badgers books flights_


----------



## zora (Jul 15, 2021)

Well, I have taken the plunge and booked a flight to try and visit family in Germany in August.
Given that neither the UK nor any other European country have ever seriously pursued a low/zero-covid strategy and things look entirely unpredictable for the autumn/winter, I figured I might as well take my chances now.
I just don't see how I can possibly make it onto or indeed off the plane without having to quarantine. To the best of my understanding, neither country will require quarantine as default for double-vaccinated travellers, but given current incidence it seems highly unlikely not to be a "contact". Surely in a plane load of people, at least one person is bound to test positive after arrival. I have got no idea what would happen these days with contact tracing following a positive case on a flight? 🤷‍♀️

Anyway, I am just going to have to resign myself to the fact that I just won't know if I can fly till I am actually on the plane.
The flight cost £20, if I can't take it, the cost doesn't matter, if I have to quarantine in Germany, there'd be worth places to do it than in my (fully Pfizer-vaccinated) parents' house. Only thing I want to avoid is having to stay in Serco quarantine prison, but that doesn't seem likely atm.


----------



## miss direct (Jul 15, 2021)

I am booked to fly to Turkey next month. Turkey is still on the red list, but I am going for work and also have to sort out banking and possessions and all sorts of other things that I couldn't do as I had to leave in a hurry mid curfew/covid wave 1. I only have a one way flight at the moment. I'll figure out getting back later, as green/red/amber countries will almost certainly change again several times before I want to come back. Or I'll just stay


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 15, 2021)

We fly at 9am. Still no sign of Mrs Smiles' PCR test result.....


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 15, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> We fly at 9am. Still no sign of Mrs Smiles' PCR test result.....


How's it coming via email or post?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 15, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> How's it coming via email or post?


Email with negative result arrived 6.30pm. off we go tomorrow!


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 15, 2021)

I reserve extra negative judgement for those travelling for fun (as opposed to visiting family, etc) and those who fly to places that they could have got to by train(s). So there.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 15, 2021)




----------



## bimble (Jul 16, 2021)

I keep checking to see if they’ll let me in to visit the parents. Going to be fun at the airport, as a Worrying Variant Citizen.


----------



## miss direct (Jul 16, 2021)

Two days ago: UK makes Bulgaria green. Rush of bookings to Sunny Beach. 
Today: Bulgaria makes UK red. Whoops.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2021)

I mean we are now Plague Island. And what do you do with a plague island? You cut it off.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 16, 2021)

Build that wall!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 16, 2021)

And, make covid pay for it.


----------



## zora (Jul 16, 2021)

I was very surprised when Germany announced ditching quarantine for fully-vaccinated people from the UK at the beginning of the month, when things were already  heading in a very obvious direction...
If it will still be like that in a couple of weeks time remains to be seen...


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 16, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I mean we are now Plague Island. And what do you do with a plague island? You cut it off.


Well after the Euros


----------



## bimble (Jul 16, 2021)

Question: are airplanes with their air system circulation thingies safer or worse than sitting in a room with say 200 strangers for a couple of hours?
if 1 in 95 brits has covid right now (apparently) then likely it’ll be joining us on any given outgoing flight.


----------



## zora (Jul 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> Question: are airplanes with their air system circulation thingies safer or worse than sitting in a room with say 200 strangers for a couple of hours?
> if 1 in 95 brits has covid right now (apparently) then likely it’ll be joining us on any given outgoing flight.


From what I have heard, the air filtration systems on the actual plane are pretty good, and it might be more the departure/arrival areas that are cause for concern. I will be FFP2-masking up for the duration. 😷


----------



## bimble (Jul 16, 2021)

Ok will google the proper masks.parents are jabbed but old.


----------



## zora (Jul 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> Ok will google the proper masks.



Boots stock them now, or you can order online.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> Question: are airplanes with their air system circulation thingies safer or worse than sitting in a room with say 200 strangers for a couple of hours?
> if 1 in 95 brits has covid right now (apparently) then likely it’ll be joining us on any given outgoing flight.


Bear in mind that that 1-in-95 is already six days out of date.

Not delta/B.1.617.2 but an example for an early type variant...





DOI: 10.3201/eid2611.203299.


----------



## bimble (Jul 16, 2021)

The moral of the story is.. don't sit in business class??
Crikey. Looks just like a plan i saw of an office infection spread.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> The moral of the story is.. don't sit in business class??
> Crikey. Looks just like a plan i saw of an office infection spread.


Don't sit anywhere near anyone infected. They are, of course, easy to spot.


----------



## bimble (Jul 16, 2021)

I'm quite frightened of the flight. I haven't sat close to a stranger at all for a very long time . I assume there's no handing out snacks so everyone takes their mask off for half an hour to eat fancy peanuts.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 16, 2021)

Fuck even thinking about going overseas, if things can change so fast...









						COVID-19: Ministers to decide if France will be moved to red travel list within days
					

Sources have told Sky News that ministers are under pressure to make a decision before the end of the school term.




					news.sky.com


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 16, 2021)

France now added to amber+ list; all amber countries are basically green, except France which is still amber with 10 days quarantine. 

Fully accept there needs to be robust borders for Covid, but this flim-flamming is fucking criminal and appears to be designed to destroy airlines and travel firms.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 16, 2021)

Ah well, not gonna visit my mum anytime soon then, not that I would go on public transport but can't afford the loss of income from the quarantine on the way back.


----------



## miss direct (Jul 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> I'm quite frightened of the flight. I haven't sat close to a stranger at all for a very long time . I assume there's no handing out snacks so everyone takes their mask off for half an hour to eat fancy peanuts.



I wouldn't assume that. Which airline? Many are still giving out drinks and meals or snacks. If you're worried, keep your mask on, wait till anyone near you has finished and then eat yours.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 17, 2021)

bimble said:


> I'm quite frightened of the flight. I haven't sat close to a stranger at all for a very long time . I assume there's no handing out snacks so everyone takes their mask off for half an hour to eat fancy peanuts.



Food and drink is served so masks come off for that. The US military and United Airlines conducted extensive experiments around this and but seems the chances of catching it on a flight are tiny, airports are spotless but still have pinch-points which are the bigger worry.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 17, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> France now added to amber+ list; all amber countries are basically green, except France which is still amber with 10 days quarantine.



Apparently it's to do with concerns over the Beta variant, which is taking off in France, and the fear that the AZ vaccine in particular has very low efficacy against it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 17, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Food and drink is served so masks come off for that. The US military and United Airlines conducted extensive experiments around this and but seems the chances of catching it on a flight are tiny, airports are spotless but still have pinch-points which are the bigger worry.


Every industry out there has produced “evidence” that there’s little transmission in _their_ particular field - from airlines to restaurants, pubs, hospitality events, festivals etc etc Yet here we are with cases going through the roof. Almost as if it’s _anything_ that puts people in close contact that’s the problem


----------



## bimble (Jul 17, 2021)

Chances of catching it on a flight seems like it just depends on whether someone sat close to you has covid. They probably won’t but they might. I think it’s pretty much established now that surfaces aren’t the problem people are.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 17, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Every industry out there has produced “evidence” that there’s little transmission in _their_ particular field - from airlines to restaurants, pubs, hospitality events, festivals etc etc Yet here we are with cases going through the roof. Almost as if it’s _anything_ that puts people in close contact that’s the problem




This wasn't the industry doing it though, the US military needed to know if they deployed troops (who travel in regular passenger style aircraft) to action whether they would all come down with plague or not. Not is what they found.

DoD Test of Viral Spread on Commercial Planes Reveals Good News, General Says


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 17, 2021)

Covid: Fully jabbed arrivals from France must still quarantine
					

A planned relaxation of England's rules from Monday will not apply due to cases of the Beta variant.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				






> Willie Walsh, the director-general of the International Air Transport Association said "the UK has no coherent policy on international travel"



He would say that, wouldn't he.

To demonstrate how coherent their policy is...



> But ministers indicated that Eurostar passengers on services travelling through France would not need to quarantine if their train did not stop in the country.



There is one Eurostar service a day to the UK that originates outside France, it starts in Amsterdam and stops in Brussels. And Lille


----------



## bimble (Jul 17, 2021)

Yeah the air circulation system on planes doesn't seem to make things worse and may well help depending on specifics. So it is just important to choose a seat that is not next to the covid person.   Transmission of SARS-CoV 2 During Long-Haul Flight


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 17, 2021)

bimble said:


> Yeah the air circulation system on planes doesn't seem to make things worse and may well help depending on specifics. So it is just important to choose a seat that is not next to the covid person.   Transmission of SARS-CoV 2 During Long-Haul Flight



Swiss Air are doing this with their Euro-business class right now:



So any A seat is pretty good...


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 17, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> This wasn't the industry doing it though, the US military needed to know if they deployed troops (who travel in regular passenger style aircraft) to action whether they would all come down with plague or not. Not is what they found.
> 
> DoD Test of Viral Spread on Commercial Planes Reveals Good News, General Says



Yep, from all the studies, planes seem to be a lot safer than almost any other indoor environment - trouble is, the research people are going by involved original COVID. With the much more infectious variants now dominating, the risks of flying seem largely unknown, though there don't seem to have been any major outbreaks linked to flights.


----------



## bimble (Jul 17, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Swiss Air are doing this with their Euro-business class right now:
> 
> View attachment 278933
> 
> So any A seat is pretty good...


Brilliant, if you can afford it you get to reduce your risk a lot. Same as ever.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 17, 2021)

bimble said:


> Brilliant, if you can afford it you get to reduce your risk a lot. Same as ever.



Log on to Flight Radar and just see how many private jets are currently whizzing about the place, companies renting them are booming right now. Most you don't need to wear masks on either...


----------



## bimble (Jul 17, 2021)

i'll just try my best to save my fancy peanuts til everyone else has eaten theirs. it will be hard.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 17, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> This wasn't the industry doing it though, the US military needed to know if they deployed troops (who travel in regular passenger style aircraft) to action whether they would all come down with plague or not. Not is what they found.
> 
> DoD Test of Viral Spread on Commercial Planes Reveals Good News, General Says


Slight problem with their test methodology - they used a peak of 4000 virions/hour (based on earlier non-SARS-CoV-2 human coronavirus studies).

Even pre-delta, SARS-CoV-2 peaks of >10^7 virions/hour were seen. PCR testing would suggest that this is even higher with B.1.617.2 (up to a thousand-fold).


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 17, 2021)

2hats said:


> Slight problem with their test methodology - they used a peak of 4000 virions/hour (based on earlier non-SARS-CoV-2 human coronavirus studies).
> 
> Even pre-delta, SARS-CoV-2 peaks of >10^7 virions/hour were seen. PCR testing would suggest that this is even higher with B.1.617.2.



Exactly.

Ffs Bahnhof Strasse, how did you miss that?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 17, 2021)

I feel so ashamed right now, could have sworn it was 10^6 virions/hour and not 10^7 virions/hour


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 18, 2021)

miss direct said:


> I wouldn't assume that. Which airline? Many are still giving out drinks and meals or snacks. If you're worried, keep your mask on, wait till anyone near you has finished and then eat yours.


For a practical example. We flew to Mallorca on Friday with Jet 2 and trolley service was pretty much as normal. Everyone seemed to abide by mask rules and they'd spaced groups out pretty well.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 18, 2021)

Hope you and your family are having a lovely holiday Harry Smiles


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 18, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Hope you and your family are having a lovely holiday Harry Smiles


Thanks, we really are. Having a few autism struggles with the oldest today, but don't usually have the offer of water slides to change up his mood


----------



## bimble (Jul 19, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse you know this stuff. I heard a 3rd hand rumour that easy jet has just stopped all its flights to Switzerland between now and start of September. Popped to their website and it seems to be true, you cant book anything uk-swiss before September.
Any idea why this might have happened?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 19, 2021)

bimble said:


> Bahnhof Strasse you know this stuff. I heard a 3rd hand rumour that easy jet has just stopped all its flights to Switzerland between now and start of September. Popped to their website and it seems to be true, you cant book anything uk-swiss before September.
> Any idea why this might have happened?




Lack of demand; hardly anyone wants to fly to Switzerland as their rules are so fluid, something along the lines of, if the country you come from has >10% the cases that Switzerland has, then you can't come in. BA has hardly any routes operating in northern Europe either.


----------



## bimble (Jul 19, 2021)

does that mean quite likely flights already booked from plague island to there will get cancelled?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 19, 2021)

bimble said:


> does that mean quite likely flights already booked from plague island to there will get cancelled?




Are you booked with Swissair (just Swiss these days, but everyone still calls them Swissair)?


----------



## bimble (Jul 19, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Are you booked with Swissair (just Swiss these days, but everyone still calls them Swissair)?


yeah


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 19, 2021)

bimble said:


> yeah




They've been flying all through this shit, so you should be fine.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 24, 2021)

Meh…


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 25, 2021)

Just got negative tests back for return to UK tests. I would say it's a bit stressful and takes a bit of faffing around, but my kids have had a ball so worth it. Whether I'd feel the same if we were being carted off to a quarantine hotel, is obviously a different matter


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 27, 2021)

People who answered the OP's poll that they disapproved will be please to know I'm cancelling or moving out family trip to Tenerife at the end of August. We are due back the day before the kids go back to school and the fear of testing positive before that, here or there, isn't worth it. Or having the isolate if someone on your plane back tests positive, now I think about it.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 27, 2021)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Well I'm in Ibiza.  All smooth and straightforward.


How was your return journey, Liz?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 27, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> How was your return journey, Liz?


It was fine.  We had to show our negative test results and our completed online forms before we went through to security.  The queue was quite long, but fairly well organised.


----------



## miss direct (Jul 27, 2021)

I am not allowing myself to look forward to Turkey too much until a few days before. Too many things can go wrong in the meantime. If Turkey is still red then I will have to have a bonus 10 days in an amber or green country on the way back.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 27, 2021)

miss direct said:


> I am not allowing myself to look forward to Turkey too much until a few days before. Too many things can go wrong in the meantime. If Turkey is still red then I will have to have a bonus 10 days in an amber or green country on the way back.


If you pick the right country it will likely be far cheaper than the government quarantine hotel misery.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 27, 2021)

For anyone travelling without both jabs, if you are meant to isolate, they will check. We landed at 9:30 last night and Mrs Smiles has just had the kock to make sure's in. I've got friends who arrive back from Ibiza to Manchester last week and needed to isolate and they each got a knock the day after returning


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 27, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> For anyone travelling without both jabs, if you are meant to isolate, they will check. We landed at 9:30 last night and Mrs Smiles has just had the kock to make sure's in. I've got friends who arrive back from Ibiza to Manchester last week and needed to isolate and they each got a knock the day after returning



Do you know who's doing the knocking? Border Force, council 'covid wardens', I assume not the police?

ETA - found the answer, see 2 posts down.


----------



## klang (Jul 27, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Do you know who's doing the knocking?


I feel there could be a really really good joke in it....


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 27, 2021)

I should have known.   



> *A Home Office source confirmed to Sky News that a private contractor, Mitie, will carry out the enforcement checks* but the police may also visit if people are suspected of breaking the quarantine rules.











						COVID-19 travel: Expect 'knock on the door' when you return from amber countries, Priti Patel warns
					

The home secretary says officials will check if people who've been to countries on the government's amber list are self-isolating.




					news.sky.com


----------



## miss direct (Jul 27, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> If you pick the right country it will likely be far cheaper than the government quarantine hotel misery.


Definitely. I have a few friends doing this at the moment. One chose Albania, the other Bulgaria. I like Bulgaria and would be happy spending some time there. As long as there's internet, I can keep working anywhere.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 27, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Do you know who's doing the knocking? Border Force, council 'covid wardens', I assume not the police?
> 
> ETA - found the answer, see 2 posts down.


I got to be honest, we didn't even look at his ID. It was so obvious that when he asked for my wife by name and said he needed to check she was isolating that he was legit, we showed him ID as requested. It was exactly the same as mates who've had the same, day after arrival, though they said the 'knocker' read a script out, whereas this guy was literally 30 secs and gone


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 27, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> People who answered the OP's poll that they disapproved will be please to know I'm cancelling or moving out family trip to Tenerife at the end of August. We are due back the day before the kids go back to school and the fear of testing positive before that, here or there, isn't worth it. Or having the isolate if someone on your plane back tests positive, now I think about it.


Sorry that you are not going, but I think the stress of having all those worries while there would quite likely have put the mockers on your trip anyway.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 28, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Definitely. I have a few friends doing this at the moment. One chose Albania, the other Bulgaria. I like Bulgaria and would be happy spending some time there. As long as there's internet, I can keep working anywhere.




Most of my customers are choosing Croatia, mainly as they are coming from Kenya via the Middle East or the Middle East itself and Qatar Airways has direct flights there. A much nicer prospect than a premier inn!


----------



## dessiato (Jul 28, 2021)

The way I feel at the moment the title would more accurately reflect my feelings if it said “Do you approve of people?”


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 28, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> I got to be honest, we didn't even look at his ID. It was so obvious that when he asked for my wife by name and said he needed to check she was isolating that he was legit, we showed him ID as requested. It was exactly the same as mates who've had the same, day after arrival, though they said the 'knocker' read a script out, whereas this guy was literally 30 secs and gone


To add to this - she's had a phone call today too


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 28, 2021)

My housemate works abroad a bit, before Xmas was in Ireland, had no contact from anyone on return. 

In feb they were in Ireland again, had to quarantine over there on arrival and were contacted and visited.

 On return to UK we decided they would isolate/quarantine in their room for a couple of weeks. Test n Trace or whoever rang them and said "are you quarantining?" they said yes but pointed out that Ireland was on a list of countries that did not require them to.  The person phoning didn't know this (!) and later a manager rang back and confirmed (green list/air corridor bollocks). Talk about shittily organised.

This was just at the time delta variant was being welcomed by the same inept system. 

Glad to read that somethings have slightly improved


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 28, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> My housemate works abroad a bit, before Xmas was in Ireland, had no contact from anyone on return.
> 
> In feb they were in Ireland again, had to quarantine over there on arrival and were contacted and visited.
> 
> ...


Funny enough my mate was over from Ireland and had the same thing, they turned up 3 times and he had to google the rules and show them to stop them turning up......


----------



## DaphneM (Jul 28, 2021)

I'm going cycling in France. Spend 2 weeks there and then go to Italy


----------



## bimble (Jul 28, 2021)

Just got my negative test done ready for return to UK. The best bit is that the UK Gov requires this test to be in either English or french or Spanish. Nothing else is acceptable. What a joke of a country.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 28, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Funny enough my mate was over from Ireland and had the same thing, they turned up 3 times and he had to google the rules and show them to stop them turning up......


Yeah I can imagine that, housemate sent them a link to the .gov website so they knew the rules about what they were enforcing!

Their trip to Ireland was an eyeopener for them, a proper lockdown, police roadblocks to see and confirm proof of work status.

Glad your holls went well


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 28, 2021)

bimble said:


> Just got my negative test done ready for return to UK. The best bit is that the UK Gov requires this test to be in either English or french or Spanish. Nothing else is acceptable. What a joke of a country.



Where are you?


----------



## bimble (Jul 28, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Where are you?


Switzerland. The 3 languages rule applies to all tests for travellers from anywhere amber in the world.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2021)

bimble said:


> Just got my negative test done ready for return to UK. The best bit is that the UK Gov requires this test to be in either English or french or Spanish. Nothing else is acceptable. What a joke of a country.


I’ll alert the cashiers at your local supermarket to expect further questioning about Brexit and empty shelves .


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 28, 2021)

bimble said:


> Switzerland. The 3 languages rule applies to all tests for travellers from anywhere amber in the world.



In fairness that's probably pretty good. If you tried to submit similar tests to any other governments in a language other than their own, English and perhaps French (the supposed "international language of Diplomacy") I reckon you'd get pretty short shrift.


----------



## bimble (Jul 28, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> In fairness that's probably pretty good. If you tried to submit similar tests to any other governments in a language other than their own, English and perhaps French (the supposed "international language of Diplomacy") I reckon you'd get pretty short shrift.


Nah. For example where I am now, it just said bring your test (list of approved types of test) or your proof of vaccine (list of approved vaccines). I think they might be able to translate the word ‘negative’ from more than 2 languages.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 28, 2021)

Switzerland does have four native languages of its own, would be surprised if they accepted a form in Arabic though.

And Switzerland allows people to enter test free if they have had a Sinovac jab, the one that doesn't work, so it ain't all sunlit uplands over there.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 28, 2021)

bimble said:


> Just got my negative test done ready for return to UK. The best bit is that the UK Gov requires this test to be in either English or french or Spanish. Nothing else is acceptable. What a joke of a country.


That's weird, If they were going to insist on official languages that's one thing but the official languages of the UK are English and Welsh (which it would seem isn't acceptable) if they're willing to take it in non-official languages then more people speak Mandarin and Hindi than Spanish and more people speak Arabic and Bengali than speak French which is down in 7th place.
I suspect some lawyer (probably a Welsh one) is going to make his/her name over this shortly.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 28, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> That's weird, If they were going to insist on official languages that's one thing but the official languages of the UK are English and Welsh (which it would seem isn't acceptable) if they're willing to take it in non-official languages then more people speak Mandarin and Hindi than Spanish and more people speak Arabic and Bengali than speak French which is down in 7th place.
> I suspect some lawyer (probably a Welsh one) is going to make his/her name over this shortly.




Where the fuck would you get a PCR test certificate in Welsh outside of Wales


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 28, 2021)

On a more serious point, the passenger locator form is for England. Wales and Scotland have their own, so I suppose they accept Welsh and Gaelic if you could find a place that could rustle one up.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 28, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> And Switzerland allows people to enter test free if they have had a Sinovac jab, the one that doesn't work, so it ain't all sunlit uplands over there.


80+% efficacy to symptomatic COVID-19 (mix of alpha and beta) and zero deaths reported recently for Sinovac CoronaVac. Perhaps less efficacy to gamma and lambda in much older cohorts.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 28, 2021)

2hats said:


> 80+% efficacy to symptomatic COVID-19 (mix of alpha and beta) and zero deaths reported recently for Sinovac CoronaVac. Perhaps less efficacy to gamma and lambda in much older cohorts.




Chile.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 28, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Where the fuck would you get a PCR test certificate in Welsh outside of Wales


I'd imagine you would struggle to get one even in Wales to be honest but Welsh is still an official language but as I say I expect some lawyer to make his name out of this


----------



## 2hats (Jul 28, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Chile.


Versus more recent separate studies in Brazil, Uruguay and Turkey which point to 70-80+%. The Chilean results are inferred and only to all infection. They also still haven't been published in the open literature yet.


----------



## bimble (Jul 28, 2021)

2hats said:


> Versus more recent separate studies in Brazil, Uruguay and Turkey which point to 70-80+%. The Chilean results are inferred and only to all infection. They also still haven't been published in the open literature yet.


So you’re saying the Sinovac is better than our very own Oxford one?


----------



## bimble (Jul 28, 2021)

What is really messed up here in swissland is that their vaccine refusal rate is similar to Texas. Weird country.


----------



## nagapie (Jul 28, 2021)

bimble said:


> What is really messed up here in swissland is that their vaccine refusal rate is similar to Texas. Weird country.


Shit country tbf.


----------



## bimble (Jul 28, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Shit country tbf.


Good cheese tho.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 28, 2021)

bimble said:


> Good cheese tho.




Fucking great for shoplifting.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 28, 2021)

bimble said:


> What is really messed up here in swissland is that their vaccine refusal rate is similar to Texas. Weird country.



Everything I've ever heard about Switzerland makes the word weird seem like an understatement. Not bad, necessarily, except in this case, but very much the odd kid in the class who brought a briefcase to school.


----------



## clicker (Jul 28, 2021)

bimble said:


> Good cheese tho.


And chocolate.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 28, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I'd imagine you would struggle to get one even in Wales to be honest


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 28, 2021)

planetgeli said:


> View attachment 281002


Love it


----------



## nagapie (Jul 28, 2021)

bimble said:


> Good cheese tho.


Everywhere has good cheese.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2021)

Now they’ve dropped the quarantine for double vaxed people from the EU I’ll try and nip back October but my test result presumably before the flight will be in Portuguese .


----------



## _Russ_ (Jul 28, 2021)

Yes I do disapprove, Im not certain its a reasonable standpoint but its how I feel
OK there are exceptions that I accept as very valid reasons, but as far as the "omg I havnt been on holiday for 18 months my mental health is suffering" lot, nah grow a set.


----------



## Edie (Jul 28, 2021)

My lad went to Menorca last week, back last weekend. Tomorrow he’s off to Mykonos on an all inclusive pretty much for free after a mate dropped out. He’s 18 and starting a full time apprenticeship in September so this is his last summer of freedom. He’s been doing zero hour delivery driving to pay for it. Can’t say I approve, although honestly? I’m glad for him at the same time. It’s been a miserable 18 months for him including losing his best mate Piotr in a car crash at Christmas and a bunch of his mates being caught up in a stabbing incident. I am mega nagging him about getting the jab tho and I’ve won, he’s getting it done on his return.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 28, 2021)

dessiato said:


> The way I feel at the moment the title would more accurately reflect my feelings if it said “Do you approve of people?”


I've been wanting to say yes to this question since this post


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2021)

I'm a bit confused and trying to work out what the feasibility of a weekend in Berlin is like right now. I'm double vaccinated so no quarantine needed on arrival.

As far as I can tell I can enter Germany (Amber) without a covid test, just my full vaccine record. But on return I need to show a negative test result taken within 72 hours before boarding the flight - but this can be a standard lateral flow though right? Not (the more expensive) PCR? Right?

And according to the government advice I need to have 'booked' a day 2 and day 8 release test before leaving? 

So do I need to show three things before boaring the plane back to the UK? The 72 hour negative test, the day 2, and day 8 bookings?

Any experts? Bahnhof Strasse ?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 29, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm a bit confused and trying to work out what the feasibility of a weekend in Berlin is like rig






skyscraper101 said:


> ht now. I'm double vaccinated so no quarantine needed on arrival.
> 
> As far as I can tell I can enter Germany (Amber) without a covid test, just my full vaccine record. But on return I need to show a negative test result taken within 72 hours before boarding the flight - but this can be a standard lateral flow though right? Not (the more expensive) PCR? Right?
> 
> ...




Entry to Germany with just the NHS app showing you are double jabbed plus this form: Digitale Einreiseanmeldung


Return to UK is PCR test (lateral flow/Antigen is acceptable, but could be rejected and I really do not recommend it).

UK passenger locator form and then a PCR test on day two after you arrive in the UK (arrival day is day zero).



Personally for a leisure break I wouldn't bother right now. A two week holiday yeah, a 2 day business trip where you may earn a couple of grand, yeah, otherwise not worth the hassle.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Entry to Germany with just the NHS Covid app showing you are double jabbed plus this form: Digitale Einreiseanmeldung
> 
> 
> Return to UK is PCR test (lateral flow/Antigen is acceptable, but could be rejected and I really do not recommend it).
> ...



But do you need to show the Day 2, and Day 8 bookings before boarding a flight back?

_(lateral flow/Antigen is acceptable, but could be rejected and I really do not recommend it)._
Is there any clear guidance that says this? I can't find anything.


----------



## Cloo (Jul 29, 2021)

I just don't really get why you'd do it when there's so much uncertainty and airports are just going to be total nightmares. I'm a bit annoyed now we didn't get away last summer (my parents have a place in my mum's homeland Slovakia, so we have an easy holiday option), as we thought it might be easier/safer this year * hollow laugh *


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 29, 2021)

You don't need day 8 test. Day 2 needs to be prebooked and the details uploaded to the passenger locator form prior to travel.

Re Antigen/lateral flow tests:

The test must meet performance standards of ≥97% specificity, ≥80% sensitivity at viral loads above 100,000 copies/ml.

This could include tests such as:


a nucleic acid test, including a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test or derivative technologies, including loop-mediated isothermal amplification (LAMP) tests
an antigen test, such as a test from a lateral flow device

There's too much that can go wrong, a PCR test can't go wrong. (fwiw BB1 used an Antigen test to get to Greece, but a PCR test is gold standard so that is what I would recommend).


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 29, 2021)

Cloo said:


> I just don't really get why you'd do it when there's so much uncertainty and *airports are just going to be total nightmares*.




We flew Heathrow to Heraklion on Saturday; having heard that there may be queues we changed the car pick up from 0630 to 0600 for an 0855 flight. We pulled up at T5 at 0640, there was a queue for club class/silver exec club check in, normally ~20 minutes at that time of day, this time less than 5 minutes. Check in was over for four people with baggage in under five minutes, security was through in under 10 minutes in spite of me being pulled for special screening as per, by 0700 we were in the lounge glugging champagne. At no point did we get crowded with others or feel unsafe in any way. The queue to board the aircraft was nicely distanced, on the flight everyone wore masks except whilst eating or drinking (which was most of the time tbf) but onboard the filtration system is pretty good. Pinch point was immigration at Heraklion, distancing was not so good, but that was very quick, <5 minutes. Baggage reclaim was distanced, no queue at car hire desk. Was a lot less hassle than I was expecting.

We have a domestic Greek flight next week, see how that goes...


----------



## nottsgirl (Jul 29, 2021)

I’ve got a week in France booked but I have already postponed it. Hopefully I can postpone it multiple times until things are pretty much zero hassle.


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2021)

So i won't need to quarantine upon return.
 And the only reason for that is that i got my vaccinations in Great Britian. That makes sense.


----------



## nagapie (Jul 30, 2021)

nottsgirl said:


> I’ve got a week in France booked but I have already postponed it. Hopefully I can postpone it multiple times until things are pretty much zero hassle.


Will we ever go back to zero hassle? This is my worry.
How will I ever travel with my two children to see my family again if it's all masks, quarantine and expensive testing required?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 30, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’m feeling a combination of smug/relieved that back in October I took a gamble and booked a week in a holiday cottage in Cornwall for this summer at a bargain price




Is it this week you're in Cornwall beesonthewhatnow ?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 30, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Is it this week you're in Cornwall beesonthewhatnow ?


Just finished the week down there, was fabulous


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> So i won't need to quarantine upon return.
> And the only reason for that is that i got my vaccinations in Great Britian. That makes sense.




From Monday if you are vaccinated in the EU or US that is fine too.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> So i won't need to quarantine upon return.
> And the only reason for that is that i got my vaccinations in Great Britian. That makes sense.


If that concerns you, travelling out of Europe would blow your mind


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> From Monday if you are vaccinated in the EU or US that is fine too.


Yes I know.
Do you think the current rules are in any way rational?
I can’t think of a single way in which it makes sense that you have to quarantine, only not if you got jabbed in the Uk.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> Yes I know.
> Do you think the current rules are in any way rational?
> I can’t think of a single way in which it makes sense that you have to quarantine, only not if you got jabbed in the Uk.



Why do you think they’re not?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> Yes I know.
> Do you think the current rules are in any way rational?
> I can’t think of a single way in which it makes sense that you have to quarantine, only not if you got jabbed in the Uk.



I have spent the past 18 months interpreting lawyer speak from all the countries on earth that have Covid entry rules. They are all a total fucking mess that are clearly made up on the hoof, cos that’s what they are. The U.K. government, shitheads that they are have not been any more mental than Germany, France, Switzerland or anywhere else during all of this. Am struggling to think of a single country that has had a coherent policy regarding travel.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 30, 2021)

With regards to U.K. jabs allowed in first, they wanted to make sure they could check U.K. vaxed folk could have paperwork processed and then look at how to process non-U.K. paperwork once that was working. Which IMO is sensible.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I have spent the past 18 months interpreting lawyer speak from all the countries on earth that have Covid entry rules. They are all a total fucking mess that are clearly made up on the hoof, cos that’s what they are. The U.K. government, shitheads that they are have not been any more mental than Germany, France, Switzerland or anywhere else during all of this. Am struggling to think of a single country that has had a coherent policy regarding travel.



Germany is a_ proper_ fuck-bucket. Absolutely bonkers.

But they do accept PCR test results in Italian!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 30, 2021)

The EU and Schengen / EEA nations have had a political edge to to it as well, from 1st January they have been pressured to make things hard for UK arrivals whilst keeping their borders open to EU arrivals, regardless of the science. Making it tricksy for UK arrivals is easy, but keeping your borders open to arrivals purely to make a point about political unity has killed thousands in places such as Spain, yet Austria, Denmark and so on have sensibly said "Fuck that" and kept closing their borders to the EU as well as everyone else.


----------



## LDC (Jul 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> Yes I know.
> Do you think the current rules are in any way rational?
> I can’t think of a single way in which it makes sense that you have to quarantine, only not if you got jabbed in the Uk.



Because someone turning up with some vaccination certificate in another language and format, and then someone at the border trying to make sense of whether it's official and genuine is a massively complex and time consuming issue, and it's easier just to say no and limit it to a few options.

Private Chinese clinic certificate, different vaccination time gap, maybe different vaccine mix, in Mandarin. "Here ya go, will you accept that?"


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 30, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Because someone turning up with some vaccination certificate in another language and format, and then someone at the border trying to make sense of whether it's official and genuine is a massively complex and time consuming issue, and it's easier just to say no and limit it to a few options.
> 
> Private Chinese clinic certificate, different vaccination time gap, maybe different vaccine mix, in Mandarin. "Here ya go, will you accept that?"




With English being the global lingua franca it is not really a big ask here.

On mental policies; Trump decreed in March 2020 that non-US citizens/green card holder arrivals from the Schengen zone would be banned, then followed that with UK/Common Travel Area. This is still in place. You can get a National Interest Exemption visa if your visit will be beneficial to the US national interest, oddly that has included race hate scum like Farage and Hopkins. They have never blocked access from Mexico, so if you can't get in with any of the above you can sit on a beach in Cabo for 2 weeks and push on to LA. Mexico has had no entry restrictions at all. This has been a feature of Mexico's response: Covid Explodes in Cancun, Los Cabos as New Wave Hits Mexico


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Because someone turning up with some vaccination certificate in another language and format, and then someone at the border trying to make sense of whether it's official and genuine is a massively complex and time consuming issue, and it's easier just to say no and limit it to a few options.
> 
> Private Chinese clinic certificate, different vaccination time gap, maybe different vaccine mix, in Mandarin. "Here ya go, will you accept that?"


It’s the not needing to quarantine just cos I got my jabs in Uk that I am questioning.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> It’s the not needing to quarantine just cos I got my jabs in Uk that I am questioning.



Loads of countries have similar requirements. As LDC says it's about checkability. Someone turning up in Frankfurt with a handwritten note from a doctor in Addis Ababa would have problems too.


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Loads of countries have similar requirements.


I’m kind of curious do you know if anyone else has the same thing - quarantine for all unless you got your vaccines from there?


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> I’m kind of curious do you know if anyone else has the same thing - quarantine for all unless you got vaccines from there?



Bahnhof Strasse is your man on that but I would have thought so. It makes a lot of sense. They need to be sure that the program that people have been vaccinated under meets UK standards. The way to do that initially is to only fully open up to those who've been vaccinated in the UK.


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2021)

I’m happy of course, that I don’t have to sit in my house for ten days. Only realised day before yesterday that it’s not so. Upon 17th close reading of Gov website.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 30, 2021)

Italy has blanket quarantine for all arrivals from the U.K. including Italians, regardless of vaccination status.

Most countries have not yet acted to include vaccination status in their terms for entry though, so what bimble is asking for can’t really be answered as most countries don’t care if you are vaccinated or not. This situation is changing daily.


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Shit country tbf.


It's not all bad. For instance can't believe i'm going home before this event happens.


----------



## klang (Jul 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> It's not all bad. For instance can't believe i'm going home before this event happens.
> 
> View attachment 281309


keep reading as 'Zithergroup Illegal'.
Punx, them!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 30, 2021)

Switzerland is fucking rubbish for anything other than skiing. Mountain biking is better in Austria…


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 30, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Switzerland is fucking rubbish for anything other than skiing...


...and army knifes.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

I had my best ever one night stand in Geneva.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> I had my best ever one night stand in Geneva.



My arse is still sore.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> My arse is still sore.


Nah, you were my second best.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> It's not all bad. For instance can't believe i'm going home before this event happens.
> 
> View attachment 281309


Get some advance merchandise


----------



## existentialist (Jul 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Nah, you were my second best.


Damned with faint praise...


----------



## kebabking (Jul 30, 2021)

We went forrin for a couple of days.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

kebabking said:


> We went forrin for a couple of days.
> View attachment 281359
> View attachment 281362
> View attachment 281361
> View attachment 281365



Where's that?


----------



## Supine (Jul 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Bahnhof Strasse is your man on that but I would have thought so. It makes a lot of sense. They need to be sure that the program that people have been vaccinated under meets UK standards. The way to do that initially is to only fully open up to those who've been vaccinated in the UK.



Yeah - brexit means mutual recognition of vaccine approvals cant happen. Pre-brexit  any vaccine approved for use in eu would have been legal for the uk to recognise. These days the UK has to make its own assessment.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 30, 2021)

Supine said:


> Yeah - brexit means mutual recognition of vaccine approvals cant happen. Pre-brexit  any vaccine approved for use in eu would have been legal for the uk to recognise. These days the UK has to make its own assessment.


EU vaccines are recognised now it’s those people who have been vaccinated outside of the States and the EU that have to quarantine.


----------



## Supine (Jul 30, 2021)

Ahh good. They caught up with the paperwork then


----------



## kebabking (Jul 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Where's that?



Coldingham Bay, and Edinburgh.

We're on holiday in Northumberland - fantastic by the way: castles, endless beaches, nice towns - and we decided to push the Boat of Recklessness out and dip the toe on Forrin waters. Coldingham is great (and the parking is free, and it's got a beach cafe), and Edinburgh was great, though very little was free....


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

Supine said:


> Yeah - brexit means mutual recognition of vaccine approvals cant happen. Pre-brexit  any vaccine approved for use in eu would have been legal for the uk to recognise. These days the UK has to make its own assessment.



Quite right too. The UK got way ahead of the EU programs so are only recognising them fully as of Monday now that most of them have more or less caught up.


----------



## nagapie (Jul 30, 2021)

Just looked at tickets for next April to go see my family, double the price.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 30, 2021)

kebabking said:


> We went forrin for a couple of days.


The third one is near Edinburgh Castle, when we went there, there was a guy dressed like William Wallace (but William Wallace from the Mel Gibson movie) stood by that green door


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 31, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> The third one is near Edinburgh Castle, when we went there, there was a guy dressed like William Wallace (but William Wallace from the Mel Gibson movie) stood by that green door


----------



## zora (Aug 2, 2021)

Well, I'm at the airport. Arrived the requested 3.5 hours pre-departure, only to be through security in 5 mins.

After doing strictly no indoor pubs/restaurants all this time, I couldn't whip my FFP2 mask off fast enough at the sight of the first branch of Giraffe 😂 , where I'm currently nomming pancakes with bacon and maple syrup, accompanied by a satisfyingly large mug of tea.

I guess the fact that pretty much everybody here will have a recent negative covid test and/or is double-vaccinated should make things relatively safe (that's what I told myself on the packed coach as well. )


----------



## little_legs (Aug 2, 2021)

So chuffed for you zora


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

My experience of coming back to uk on Saturday was like this:
At Zurich airport there were 3 extra staff at the gate who were there to check all the paperwork required by the Uk gov  which they did really carefully in detail, looking closely at covid test result and the 4 page passenger location form, pulling aside anyone who had not completed it correctly & helping them. 
Then at Heathrow just went through the electronic gates, nothing at all.


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

today is day 2 since my return and no test kit has arrived yet, not sure what if anything i'm supposed to do about that


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 2, 2021)

bimble said:


> today is day 2 since my return and no test kit has arrived yet, not sure what if anything i'm supposed to do about that


Did you order it before you went? Or while you were away?


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Did you order it before you went? Or while you were away?


Ordered 5 days ago whilst i was away, from one of the long list of private providers on the gov.uk website.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 2, 2021)

bimble said:


> Ordered 5 days ago whilst i was away, from one of the long list of private providers on the gov.uk website.


There has been talk of the unavailability of some of the (usually lower-cost) tests. Tory privatisation at its finest, again, as it looks like the providers have been offering the lower cost tests as a kind of "loss leader" without much incentive to actually *provide* them in practice.


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

existentialist said:


> There has been talk of the unavailability of some of the (usually lower-cost) tests. Tory privatisation at its finest, again, as it looks like the providers have been offering the lower cost tests as a kind of "loss leader" without much incentive to actually *provide* them in practice.


i paid £99 which is not cheap - didnt realise that i - i think? - only need the day 2 one and not the day 8. Actually still not clear on that.  
If not arrived by midday will contact them to ask whats up (they have sent plenty emails)


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 2, 2021)

bimble said:


> Ordered 5 days ago whilst i was away, from one of the long list of private providers on the gov.uk website.



Any chance they've delivered while you are away and it's with a neighbour? 

I don't envy you - it's a PITA!


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

it did say they dispatch on the day of your return and not before, which was a saturday, so am reasonably optimistic it'll appear today.


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

The whole process was (still is) a massive faff and expensive but am really glad i did it, parents were so happy to see me after a year and all the uncertainty. I don't think i'd do it just for a jaunt though.


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

tests arrived!


----------



## Thora (Aug 2, 2021)

bimble said:


> My experience of coming back to uk on Saturday was like this:
> At Zurich airport there were 3 extra staff at the gate who were there to check all the paperwork required by the Uk gov  which they did really carefully in detail, looking closely at covid test result and the 4 page passenger location form, pulling aside anyone who had not completed it correctly & helping them.
> Then at Heathrow just went through the electronic gates, nothing at all.


I heard similar from someone who came back from Greece recently - two of their party couldn't find the ref number (?) from their tests to put on their forms so they just used the same number as someone else and changed the last two digits, and that was apparently fine.


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

It was a bit surprising (to me) that all of the work of making sure the uk's rules were enforced was completely outsourced to staff employed either by the swiss airline or zurich airport i don't know which.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2021)

bimble said:


> It was a bit surprising (to me) that all of the work of making sure the uk's rules were enforced was completely outsourced to staff employed either by the swiss airline or zurich airport i don't know which.



I think that's because it's the airlines who are responsible for who they fly. I believe they get pretty heavily fined if they land passengers with incorrect documentation so those people doing the checks in Zurich will have been Swissair staff.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> I think that's because it's the airlines who are responsible for who they fly. I believe they get pretty heavily fined if they land passengers with incorrect documentation so those people doing the checks in Zurich will have been Swissair staff.




Yes & no. That is very much the case for passports/visas. The airlines are pushing to be allowed to collect Covid info at check in (or before) to make the whole travel experience smoother. This is being trialled from certain places to the UK, Zurich being one, Athens another. For us to get to Greece we had to upload our vaccination stuff to BA's website and BB1's Covid test along with the Greek passenger locator form, at Heathrow nothing was mentioned nor at Heraklion, as it was all neatly in the system. So that is the future it seems, but as yet the onerous fines that airlines must pay for carrying people without correct passports/visas do not yet apply for Covid stuff.


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

The whole thing has got to get better and easier from now on, it was pretty nuts, with quite a few people bringing actual A4 ringbinders with their documents in. Did feel like passing an exam. And there's no way my parents for instance could have done all the uploading of pdfs and stuff, their English is fine but like most old people they haven't got a clue how to deal with computer things.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2021)

There's really no need for all the tests and forms, either the vaccines work well enough or we're all in the shit.


----------



## nagapie (Aug 2, 2021)

I have some questions, because eventually I'm going to have to travel:
1. Are airlines putting less people on the flights? For social distancing. Tbh I cannot afford the extra costs this will cause but I looked at flights at a time of year I usually book for and they've doubled.
2. Will my children have to wear masks cause I don't think they'll be able to fully comply?
3. If I have a Ew hours stopover in a green country having come from a red country, will I have to quarantine?
Bahnhof Strasse , can I pick your brain?
My mum is in her late 80s with MS and I need to go.


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## Johnny Doe (Aug 2, 2021)

Just been tracked and traced, from the day of our return flight (a week today) and have to isolate until Friday. PITA.


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## klang (Aug 2, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Just been tracked and traced, from the day of our return flight (a week yesterday) and have to isolate until Friday. PITA.


do you know where the contact was?


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## Johnny Doe (Aug 2, 2021)

klang said:


> do you know where the contact was?


Can only have been from the passneger locator form so must have been someone else on the plane. The 10 days from contact period they given me works back to the date of the flight too


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## klang (Aug 2, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Can only have been from the passneger locator form so must have been someone else on the plane. The 10 days from contact period they given me works back to the date of the flight too


does your whole family have to isolate then?

ps - you have my sympathy


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2021)

nagapie said:


> I have some questions, because eventually I'm going to have to travel:
> 1. Are airlines putting less people on the flights? For social distancing. Tbh I cannot afford the extra costs this will cause but I looked at flights at a time of year I usually book for and they've doubled.
> 2. Will my children have to wear masks cause I don't think they'll be able to fully comply?
> 3. If I have a Ew hours stopover in a green country having come from a red country, will I have to quarantine?
> ...




1. No. Alitalia was, Swiss is in business class in Europe, but generally no so you could be in the middle of a row of three with strangers on either side.
2. How old are the children? Will be the rues for the countries you are travelling between, last summer my then 7 year old was shouted at to put her mask on by a guy in the seat in front.
3. Not sure I understand. If coming from a green country and you stop in a red country then red rules apply. If coming from red country via a green one then red rules apply. Where is your mum?
Just go nagapie you will regret it if you leave it too late.


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## Johnny Doe (Aug 2, 2021)

klang said:


> does your whole family have to isolate then?
> 
> ps - you have my sympathy


The wife already had to the same date anyway as she is only single jabbed

"Parents or guardians are responsible for ensuring their children (under the age of 18) follow these rules." is in the email, so I assume kids too


----------



## [62] (Aug 2, 2021)

Apologies it it's already been linked to, but this is a pretty good checker for the current Covid state of play for travel:





__





						Sherpa – Move Freely
					






					apply.joinsherpa.com


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2021)

[62] said:


> Apologies it it's already been linked to, but this is a pretty good checker for the current Covid state of play for travel:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




One of a number of tools you need, it is good but no one thing is 100% accurate. Sherpa is too cautious and indicates that you need to quarantine more than you really do. Every query needs checking with that, IATA, Exlog and the FCO and often with the country you are planning on going to, their own site too.


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## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Just been tracked and traced, from the day of our return flight (a week today) and have to isolate until Friday. PITA.


it took a week for you to be notified but they reckon the contact was positive when they were on your flight? that doesn't seem very excellent. There were people coughing all over the place on my return flight, the dodgy bastards.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2021)

bimble said:


> it took a week for you to be notified but they reckon the contact was positive when they were on your flight? that doesn't seem very excellent. There were people coughing all over the place on my return flight, the dodgy bastards.




Swiss are big on smoking though...


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## Johnny Doe (Aug 2, 2021)

bimble said:


> it took a week for you to be notified but they reckon the contact was positive when they were on your flight? that doesn't seem very excellent. There were people coughing all over the place on my return flight, the dodgy bastards.


We arrived back Monday and did our day two (or before) tests on Tuesday and got negative results on Wednesday. Anyone else doing a day 2 test from that flight could of done as late as Wednesday and I guess if they left it late in the day, not got their results back until Friday, or maybe Saturday? Then presumably they or the testing lab report the positive result and the track and trace happens.....


----------



## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Swiss are big on smoking though...


Yeah they do like smoking, not very keen on vaccines either.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 2, 2021)

nagapie said:


> I have some questions, because eventually I'm going to have to travel:
> 3. If I have a Ew hours stopover in a green country having come from a red country, will I have to quarantine?
> Bahnhof Strasse , can I pick your brain?
> My mum is in her late 80s with MS and I need to go.


Go visit your mum
pretty sure you would need 10 days stopover in a green country after a red list one to not have to quarantine on returning to the UK


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## bimble (Aug 2, 2021)

I’m well paranoid now. Just coughed. It does seem wrong that I don’t have to quarantine at all.
ETA think I’ll stay home this eve instead of visiting my friend & her new kitten , do a mini quarantine just til i get the test result.


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## nagapie (Aug 2, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 1. No. Alitalia was, Swiss is in business class in Europe, but generally no so you could be in the middle of a row of three with strangers on either side.
> 2. How old are the children? Will be the rues for the countries you are travelling between, last summer my then 7 year old was shouted at to put her mask on by a guy in the seat in front.
> 3. Not sure I understand. If coming from a green country and you stop in a red country then red rules apply. If coming from red country via a green one then red rules apply. Where is your mum?
> Just go nagapie you will regret it if you leave it too late.


The problem is I'm South African so currently a red country which means I can't go as could never afford a quarantine hotel, can barely afford the flights.
My children are 11 and 7. 11 year old will wear a mask but couldn't manage to keep it on the whole flight. 7 year old, no way. And if anyone shouted at him, I'd probably punch them as he has some special needs.
I'm wanting to book for April. Will my flights be transferable if SA is still red?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2021)

nagapie said:


> The problem is I'm South African so currently a red country which means I can't go as could never afford a quarantine hotel, can barely afford the flights.
> My children are 11 and 7. 11 year old will wear a mask but couldn't manage to keep it on the whole flight. 7 year old, no way. And if anyone shouted at him, I'd probably punch them as he has some special needs.
> I'm wanting to book for April. Will my flights be transferable if SA is still red?




OK, April is fucking miles away in Covid times (of course in normal flight booking times now is when you should book, but we are not in normal times). So anything can happen. So book it and see what happens.
Again all this WILL change between now and next April, but as of today 7 year old will need a mask unless you get an exemption lanyard (ebay) but no one really gives much of a toss about kids not wearing them. Once on the flight the configuration of most long-haul aircraft is 3-4-3, stick 7 year old by the window and remove mask. You can take your masks off for eating and drinking anyway, so tubes of Pringles and so on will allow you to do this, as it is an overnight flight (except KLM) most people will sleep/doze and not pay you any attention. We got shouted at on a flight to Berlin, the shouter was German....

All flights booked now can be rebooked with no penalty, book with BA and you can rebook to anywhere on their network. You can't have a refund unless the airline cancels the flight though.

Book it, you have nothing to lose. If you like PM me and I'll book it, I don't charge fees or that to urbanites (I don't usually want them to book with me!) but it will make changes easier for you if you need to.


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## nagapie (Aug 2, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> OK, April is fucking miles away in Covid times (of course in normal flight booking times now is when you should book, but we are not in normal times). So anything can happen. So book it and see what happens.
> Again all this WILL change between now and next April, but as of today 7 year old will need a mask unless you get an exemption lanyard. Once on the flight the configuration of most long-haul aircraft is 3-4-3, stick 7 year old by the window and remove mask. You can take your masks off for eating and drinking anyway, so tubes of Pringles and so on will allow you to do this, as it is an overnight flight (except KLM) most people will sleep/doze and not pay you any attention. We got shouted at on a flight to Berlin, the shouter was German....
> 
> All flights booked now can be rebooked with no penalty, book with BA and you can rebook to anywhere on their network. You can't have a refund unless the airline cancels the flight though.
> ...


Thanks. I really appreciate all the advice and the offers.
Right now the dates I can go are not affordable on BA, I would usually fly with them. I don't know why they're so expensive, the European airlines look ok.
Thinking I may have to go via Frankfurt on Lufthansa but need to have a proper look.
May get back to you and take up the offer if I can't make sense of it all as also have to fly into Cape Town and out of Johannesburg.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Thanks. I really appreciate all the advice and the offers.
> Right now the dates I can go are not affordable on BA, I would usually fly with them. I don't know why they're so expensive, the European airlines look ok.
> Thinking I may have to go via Frankfurt on Lufthansa but need to have a proper look.
> May get back to you and take up the offer if I can't make sense of it all as also have to fly into Cape Town and out of Johannesburg.



PM me your dates and I'll have a look for you.


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## nagapie (Aug 2, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> PM me your dates and I'll have a look for you.


Thanks, will do.


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## cupid_stunt (Aug 2, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I don't charge fees or that to urbanites *(I don't usually want them to book with me!)*



Who can blame you.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Aug 2, 2021)

Have read a few articles about airport troubles. Heathrow appears about 50% down on flights but aircraft noise is almost 0 in South London. Are thousands of people still flying off on holiday? Personally I think things are way too uncertain.


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## bimble (Aug 3, 2021)

People who have done this, how and how quickly did you get the result of your day 2 pcr test after returning home was it just an email?


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## Johnny Doe (Aug 3, 2021)

bimble said:


> People who have done this, how and how quickly did you get the result of your day 2 pcr test after returning home was it just an email?


Next day - did it last Tuesday, dropped it to a Randox drop box about 3pm, had the results back the next afternoon by email


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## bimble (Aug 3, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Next day - did it last Tuesday, dropped it to a Randox drop box about 3pm, had the results back the next afternoon by email


Good. I posted mine early yesterday (royal mail 24hr thing) so hopefully i'll get an email tomorrow.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

Just had to get an Antigen test for BB1 to fly from Crete to Athens, it cost €18 and they emailed the certificate in 20 minutes, why so fucking expensive in the UK???


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## bimble (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Just had to get an Antigen test for BB1 to fly from Crete to Athens, it cost €18 and they emailed the certificate in 20 minutes, why so fucking expensive in the UK???


Ha UK is a bargain, I had to get mine in swissland, 75 francs just the lateral flow bugger. And he only did my nose.


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## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Just had to get an Antigen test for BB1 to fly from Crete to Athens, it cost €18 and they emailed the certificate in 20 minutes, why so fucking expensive in the UK???


Your lass is having an adventure


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## bimble (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> Your lass is having an adventure


Nah, his sprogs are used to it, if they were put in economy class on a flight they'd ask to speak to the manager.


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## existentialist (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Just had to get an Antigen test for BB1 to fly from Crete to Athens, it cost €18 and they emailed the certificate in 20 minutes, why so fucking expensive in the UK???


Well, how else are funds to end up in the pockets of the Government's mates?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

bimble said:


> Nah, his sprogs are used to it, if they were put in economy class on a flight they'd ask to speak to the manager.



They will be in economy for Thursday's flight. It's 35 minutes in the air and business was double the cost of eco. There will be moaning...


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> Your lass is having an adventure




She's with us, but is by far the most accomplished traveller of the lot of us.


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## poului (Aug 3, 2021)

Reposted from the Covid info thread...



poului said:


> Anyone know if the Covid travel test using your saliva is accepted by the British authorities when entering the UK? I'm hoping to travel to London from Madrid this Saturday but would prefer to avoid taking a test that involves anything up my nose, but also want to be sure a saliva accepted would be accepted when I travel.


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## bimble (Aug 3, 2021)

poului said:


> Reposted from the Covid info thread...


i don't think so. They list the types of test acceptable on the gov.uk website. here you go, here's their very easy to understand requirements.

Its like they think we will actually understand what any of it means.

 Idk if any of them use saliva instead of nose poking, never heard of one that does.


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## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> She's with us, but is by far the most accomplished traveller of the lot of us.


Ah right. My lads in Corfu on an all inclusive with two mates for £25 a day 😂 The room is fucking hilarious, three lads on three single beds, an old school TV bolted to the wall, and no air con during an actual fucking 40 degree heat wave. Between the three of them, one has had his phone nicked, one dropped it in the pool, and my lad left his in the sun and it packed in. Flying back to Manchester at 11.30pm Turkish time (that’ll be the £40 flight) with no way to access tickets or boarding passes with Ryan Air who are gonna shaft them. Character building 😬

edit: I really want him home 😭


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> Ah right. My lads in Corfu on an all inclusive with two mates for £25 a day 😂 The room is fucking hilarious, three lads on three single beds, an old school TV bolted to the wall, and no air con during an actual fucking 40 degree heat wave. Between the three of them, one has had his phone nicked, one dropped it in the pool, and my lad left his in the sun and it packed in. Flying back to Manchester at 11.30pm Turkish time (that’ll be the £40 flight) with no way to access tickets or boarding passes with Ryan Air who are gonna shaft them. Character building 😬
> 
> edit: I really want him home 😭




It really is character building.

And yes, there is a heatwave here, every interaction with Greek person starts with them saying how hot it is. At least we have our own pool...


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## bimble (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It really is character building.
> 
> And yes, there is a heatwave here, every interaction with Greek person starts with them saying how hot it is. At least we have our own pool...


Crete's a bit crap isnt it, apart from the ancient stuff.


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## MickiQ (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> Ah right. My lads in Corfu on an all inclusive with two mates for £25 a day 😂 The room is fucking hilarious, three lads on three single beds, an old school TV bolted to the wall, and no air con during an actual fucking 40 degree heat wave. Between the three of them, one has had his phone nicked, one dropped it in the pool, and my lad left his in the sun and it packed in. Flying back to Manchester at 11.30pm Turkish time (that’ll be the £40 flight) with no way to access tickets or boarding passes with Ryan Air who are gonna shaft them. Character building 😬
> 
> edit: I really want him home 😭


Tonight?


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## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Tonight?


Yes. Why is there something I should know???


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## MickiQ (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> Yes. Why is there something I should know???


Good luck I hope he makes it home safe
Edit: No I don't know anything you don't, just wondering. I've been in the same position as you.


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## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Good luck I hope he makes it home safe
> Edit: No I don't know anything you don't, just wondering. I've been in the same position as you.


Lads don’t tell you anything! You just have to keep your fingers crossed! 😅


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## Johnny Doe (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> Ah right. My lads in Corfu on an all inclusive with two mates for £25 a day 😂 The room is fucking hilarious, three lads on three single beds, an old school TV bolted to the wall, and no air con during an actual fucking 40 degree heat wave. Between the three of them, one has had his phone nicked, one dropped it in the pool, and my lad left his in the sun and it packed in. Flying back to Manchester at 11.30pm Turkish time (that’ll be the £40 flight) with no way to access tickets or boarding passes with Ryan Air who are gonna shaft them. Character building 😬
> 
> edit: I really want him home 😭


Don't worry, now he's done this:


Another few years and it's:


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

bimble said:


> Crete's a bit crap isnt it, apart from the ancient stuff.




Yeah, no seriously stunning beaches, but hot, nice food and drink, acceptable beaches and the place we figured least likely to go to red list. We went to Knossos yesterday and that was interesting, have been horse riding up a mountain and to a water park. We also got a four bedroom villa  with the biggest and deepest pool we have ever had (15m long and 3m deep) for 12 nights for £2500, so can't knock it it too much. I prefer Spain as I speak the language, there is less litter and steaks are on every menu. But nice to see somewhere different for a change and the Greek people have been lovely to us all the way. So would recommend, after 25 years of slagging off the place after my last visit.


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## Johnny Doe (Aug 3, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Don't worry, now he's done this:
> 
> 
> Another few years and it's:




Only joking! Even I grew up, he'll be fine!


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## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah, no seriously stunning beaches, but hot, nice food and drink, acceptable beaches and the place we figured least likely to go to red list. We went to Knossos yesterday and that was interesting, have been horse riding up a mountain and to a water park. We also got a four bedroom villa  with the biggest and deepest pool we have ever had (15m long and 3m deep) for 12 nights for £2500, so can't knock it it too much. I prefer Spain as I speak the language, there is less litter and steaks are on every menu. But nice to see somewhere different for a change and the Greek people have been lovely to us all the way. So would recommend, after 25 years of slagging off the place after my last visit.


You should have gone to Loutro. Which is quite literally one of the most beautiful places in the world. Spymaster may not know this, but he mentioned it on here about a decade ago and I’ve taken the lads twice since. No roads or cars, you have to get the ferry there. Stay in the Loutro hotel. It’s basic but perfect. No pool (there’s no space due to the mountain) but the sea is like… there. The first opportunity I have I’m going back. I actually seriously dream of somehow learning Greek and living there. There are turtles. And a mountain (hence no roads).


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## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

The first time I went I was actually terrified as it was my first trip as a single mum. I’d booked it impulsively from the joint account (£1300!!) at New Year, the first miserable new year after our hearts were broken. We had to get a flight, a taxi (😱), and then a ferry!!!! But I somehow managed with two kids. And my god, that ferry ride, the mountains and coastline, the sea, and knowing I’d got us there!! It was amazing


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> You should have gone to Loutro. Which is quite literally one of the most beautiful places in the world. Spymaster may not know this, but he mentioned it on here about a decade ago and I’ve taken the lads twice since. No roads or cars, you have to get the ferry there. Stay in the Loutro hotel. It’s basic but perfect. No pool (there’s no space due to the mountain) but the sea is like… there. The first opportunity I have I’m going back. I actually seriously dream of somehow learning Greek and living there. There are turtles. And a mountain (hence no roads).




Yeah there are nice pockets on the island, we have found some nice enough places that have done us as well as we could have wanted, these being fucked up times and that. Spymaster has openly shat in to the sea near here though, so that does kind of sully the whole experience. And there is now a road in to Loutro, just the one though.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> You should have gone to Loutro. Which is quite literally one of the most beautiful places in the world. Spymaster may not know this, but he mentioned it on here about a decade ago and I’ve taken the lads twice since. No roads or cars, you have to get the ferry there. Stay in the Loutro hotel. It’s basic but perfect. No pool (there’s no space due to the mountain) but the sea is like… there. The first opportunity I have I’m going back. I actually seriously dream of somehow learning Greek and living there. There are turtles. And a mountain (hence no roads).



Shhhhhh! 

It's a secret


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah there are nice pockets on the island, we have found some nice enough places that have done us as well as we could have wanted, these being fucked up times and that. Spymaster has openly shat in to the sea near here though, so that does kind of sully the whole experience.



That was Istanbul.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> knowing I’d got us there!! It was amazing



I still get that buzz every time we go somewhere, feels like proper adulting.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> That was Istanbul.



The Med does have a mild tide, your faeces have had time enough to make it here and ruin things by now.


----------



## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I still get that buzz every time we go somewhere, feels like proper adulting.


I don’t find it much less terrifying on my own even now. Mind you we’ve only been to Crete twice, Istanbul once (!! Istanbul), and America once in nearly twenty years. So it’s still a heart racing experience for me 😂


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> I don’t find it much less terrifying on my own even now. Mind you we’ve only been to Crete twice, Istanbul once (!! Istanbul), and America once in nearly twenty years. So it’s still a heart racing experience for me 😂




I know it's my job and I have been lucky enough to travel around a lot, but there's something when I am at a check in desk with Frau Bahn and the brats that hits me, 'I am taking these people half way across the world to a strange place and they are all utterly depending on me for their arrangements and wellbeing. It's a good buzz. India being the best buzz.


----------



## bimble (Aug 3, 2021)

i only went to see my parents but there was real joy after all this time in just being in motion again, being Elsewhere, more than a few miles away from my house. Seeing new things new roads people buildings horizons whatever that i've not ever seen before & probably won't see again.
And one moment of almost crying-happy, that was just me sat at a little round table, white tablecloth, in a big sunny square in a city, having a beer, watching life go on around me, incl a small market along one side, and no masks no sign of the whole bloody thing at all.


----------



## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I know it's my job and I have been lucky enough to travel around a lot, but there's something when I am at a check in desk with Frau Bahn and the brats that hits me, 'I am taking these people half way across the world to a strange place and they are all utterly depending on me for their arrangements and wellbeing. It's a good buzz. India being the best buzz.


Do you ever arrange trips for urbanites? I’d love you to help me go somewhere unknown but with your knowledge iyswim once my kids leave home (out the door lads!).


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## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

bimble said:


> i only went to see my parents but there was real joy after all this time in just being in motion again, being Elsewhere, more than a few miles away from my house. Seeing new things new roads people buildings horizons whatever that i've not ever seen before & probably won't see again.
> And one moment of almost crying-happy, that was just me sat at a little round table, white tablecloth, in a big sunny square in a city, having a beer, watching life go on around me, incl a small market along one side, and no masks no sign of the whole bloody thing at all.


Ahh mate what a lovely description. Captured it. Which country?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> Do you ever arrange trips for urbanites? I’d love you to help me go somewhere unknown but with your knowledge iyswim once my kids leave home (out the door lads!).




I try not to as people can be a pain the arse, but of course I'd be happy to for you. What would your ideal place?


----------



## bimble (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> Ahh mate what a lovely description. Captured it. Which country?


bloody switzerland, thats where my folks live. Not exactly the buzz of India but still, Elsewhere! Not my table!


----------



## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I try not to as people can be a pain the arse, but of course I'd be happy to for you. What would your ideal place?


Oh my goodness I don’t know, not got that far yet! Maybe if I was using your inside knowledge (so I’d want it to be a bit adventurous, outside Europe) somewhere in South America? Some jungle, ancient history, ending with a beach. No expense spared (under five grand tho cos otherwise it’d take me ages to save). I’d read all about the history and culture and wildlife. Honestly I’m having such a terrible stressful time atm with the youngest not being very well that I need a dream to hold on to!


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## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

The oldest just called! He’s through airport security and fine. Although he’s got a black eye apparently 🤔 Anyway, on his way home hooray!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 3, 2021)

Edie said:


> Oh my goodness I don’t know, not got that far yet! Maybe if I was using your inside knowledge (so I’d want it to be a bit adventurous, outside Europe) somewhere in South America? Some jungle, ancient history, ending with a beach. No expense spared (under five grand tho cos otherwise it’d take me ages to save). I’d read all about the history and culture and wildlife. Honestly I’m having such a terrible stressful time atm with the youngest not being very well that I need a dream to hold on to!




Piece of piss, don't tell anyone but Colombia is the place to be. Fly to Bogota (via Madrid is cheaper), then to Providencia via San Andres (boat from there or fly if flush). The most perfect Caribbean island with no Euro/US pricks:




^^^an islet off Providencia, but you get the idea...






__





						Providencia - Wikitravel
					

Providencia [http://www.providenciaespasion.com/eng/] is a Caribbean island, and a part of the San Andres and Providencia Archipelago. It is politically a part of Colombia, but is geographically closer to Nicaragua. It is attached by footbridge to a smaller island, Santa Catalina.




					wikitravel.org
				




Then on to Cartagena for some culture and if you must you can do a jungle trek, I don't care much for spiders so will opt not to join you on that.

Starting with the beach eases you in to the culture/environment the other way around is a headfuck.


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## Edie (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Piece of piss, don't tell anyone but Colombia is the place to be. Fly to Bogota (via Madrid is cheaper), then to Providencia via San Andres (boat from there or fly if flush). The most perfect Caribbean island with no Euro/US pricks:
> 
> View attachment 281916
> 
> ...


I’ve literally just screengrabbed that post  Come the day mate, come the day when all the stress and worry and responsibility is done for a time and we do something for us xxx


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 3, 2021)

Colombia was the last holiday my parents took together before Covid actually it ended up being their last ever holiday.

They were on a Jules Verne tour and they visited Cartagena amongst other places and loved it.


----------



## smmudge (Aug 3, 2021)

bimble said:


> Crete's a bit crap isnt it, apart from the ancient stuff.



I love Crete! Probably the only place I'd consider going back to (because I love to see new places rather than anywhere being particularly bad).


----------



## sideboob (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Just had to get an Antigen test for BB1 to fly from Crete to Athens, it cost €18 and they emailed the certificate in 20 minutes, why so fucking expensive in the UK???



The price just got reduced over here, only about 300 packs of hobknobs now.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 3, 2021)

smmudge said:


> I love Crete! Probably the only place I'd consider going back to (because I love to see new places rather than anywhere being particularly bad).


I spent a fortnight in Crete aged 18 exploring classical sites, I got the bus into Heraklion every day and then out to another part of the island. Really saw a different side to the island as was a long way off the tourist trail. Was a wonderful trip care of a school travel grant.


----------



## Glitter (Aug 3, 2021)

I loved Crete too. Beautiful place.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 3, 2021)

I've always quite liked the idea of going to Greece, or more particularly one of the islands. What are they like for solo travellers?

I don't think I'll be going while this Covid thing is going on, but it might be nice to think about something for the future.


----------



## LDC (Aug 3, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I've always quite liked the idea of going to Greece, or more particularly one of the islands. What are they like for solo travellers?
> 
> I don't think I'll be going while this Covid thing is going on, but it might be nice to think about something for the future.



Yeah, I have wanted to go to Crete after reading about the WW2 stuff there. Have images of evenings spent eating sardines and drinking the local spirit in a small village by the sea. Surprised some people here haven't enjoyed it there.


----------



## Glitter (Aug 3, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Yeah, I have wanted to go to Crete after reading about the WW2 stuff there. Have images of evenings spent eating sardines and drinking the local spirit in a small village by the sea. Surprised some people here haven't enjoyed it there.


We stayed in Rethymnon. It was really quiet but we could find a party if we wanted one.

I love Greece and the Greek Islands tbf. I go to Spain regularly (in normal times) as my folks have a place there, so it’s easy and convenient, but I love Greece much more than Spain.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 3, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I've always quite liked the idea of going to Greece, or more particularly one of the islands. What are they like for solo travellers?



Πολύ καλα.  Και οι Έλληνες είναι πολύ ευγενικοί.


----------



## smmudge (Aug 3, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> I spent a fortnight in Crete aged 18 exploring classical sites, I got the bus into Heraklion every day and then out to another part of the island. Really saw a different side to the island as was a long way off the tourist trail. Was a wonderful trip care of a school travel grant.



Yeah we stayed in Heraklion rather than a tourist resort which I think helped for us. Still visited Agios Nikolaos and Elounda, and a trip up the mountains to Lasithi plateau plus some other trips. And there's a couple of beaches you can get to quite easily from Heraklion, it's a good base I reckon.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 3, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Piece of piss, don't tell anyone but Colombia is the place to be. Fly to Bogota (via Madrid is cheaper), then to Providencia via San Andres (boat from there or fly if flush). The most perfect Caribbean island with no Euro/US pricks:
> 
> View attachment 281916
> 
> ...


Colombia is great, I think the chances of finding yourself in the middle of a gang or rebel/army/police shoot out have gone down massively since I was there too.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 3, 2021)

bimble said:


> today is day 2 since my return and no test kit has arrived yet, not sure what if anything i'm supposed to do about that


There is an unreported national shortage


----------



## bimble (Aug 5, 2021)




----------



## LDC (Aug 5, 2021)

bimble said:


> View attachment 282156



Surely that needs posting to some conspiracy theory group suggesting she's the real power behind the communist GREAT RESET.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 5, 2021)

I'm keeping a closer eye on the red/amber/green list changes as I have a trip coming up. I have a feeling Turkey will change to amber before I come back, but if it doesn't, I have quite an impressive choice of places to come back via. Thinking either Romania or Ukraine as never been to either. 

The Brits in Turkey are understandably really pissed off to still be on the red list when India isn't.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 5, 2021)

Well, my flight to Istanbul just got cancelled, along with all other Pegasus flights from the UK to Istanbul until at least the end of the month. I've rebooked with Turkish Airlines but will have to go to London. If that doesn't also get cancelled. If that cancels I will give up.


----------



## elbows (Aug 5, 2021)

bimble said:


> View attachment 282156


PHE have at least one Katie Hopkins.









						Katie Hopkins
					

I am a Clinical Scientist working at Public Health England based in Colindale, London. I graduated with a BSc (Hons) in Microbiology in 1997 and obtained my PhD from the University of Birmingham in 2001. My interests focus on mechanisms of resistance to key antimicrobials within the...




					www.researchgate.net


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 5, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Well, my flight to Istanbul just got cancelled, along with all other Pegasus flights from the UK to Istanbul until at least the end of the month. I've rebooked with Turkish Airlines but will have to go to London. If that doesn't also get cancelled. If that cancels I will give up.


I suppose you could always fly to an amber country and from there to Turkey if you need to go, but a bit of a faff to be sure.
Numbers there have been going up again in the past couple of weeks.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 5, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Well, my flight to Istanbul just got cancelled, along with all other Pegasus flights from the UK to Istanbul until at least the end of the month. I've rebooked with Turkish Airlines but will have to go to London. If that doesn't also get cancelled. If that cancels I will give up.


Fly to Cyprus and cross over via Ledara to the northern half?


----------



## planetgeli (Aug 5, 2021)

Crete's ok, it's big enough to have nice places as well as the awful stuff. I hired a car and drove all over, really enjoyed it. Then our flight got delayed and they put us up in a town called 'Gas' or 'Oil' or 'Shell' which looked exactly as you'd expect. That wasn't so good.

I love Greece though, been a few times. For the sun, not the ancient culture. I think Skiathos was my favourite, but it helped that with our accommodation/allocation on arrival £99 for a week holiday we got dumped for some reason in a 3 star hotel on the beach. Literally on the beach, it's where we ate breakfast. And Skopelos is right next door so you can get two islands for the price of one.

Been to Colombia, loved Colombia, but I've never seen so many sub machine guns on the street in my life. That was 2008 though. Colombia is a beautiful and interesting country.

All I'd say is going all the way to S.America and not seeing Machu Picchu just means you're going to have to go all the way back again one day.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 6, 2021)

It's already going to be a ridiculous rigmarole coming back (tests, 11 nights in Amber or green country, trying to find somewhere with reliable  Internet so I can work). I'm only really willing to go if I can fly direct, so just hoping my rebooked flight will go ahead. I'll keep an eye on the flight I've booked to see if it's being cancelled or not in the upcoming weeks..not excited about five hour coach journey to Stansted.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 8, 2021)

Why don't we all fly to Greece, Turkey, Italy, Spain, California, Siberia and the Russian Far East this summer, and then down to Australia in the winter? We'd best get a move on, mind you, because they won't be worth visiting in a few years, what with rising temperatures, catastrophic fires and all the attendant destruction and disruption? Plus, when populations start emigrating elsewhere there won't be so many locals to serve us drinks.


----------



## prunus (Aug 8, 2021)

Edie said:


> You should have gone to Loutro. Which is quite literally one of the most beautiful places in the world. Spymaster may not know this, but he mentioned it on here about a decade ago and I’ve taken the lads twice since. No roads or cars, you have to get the ferry there. Stay in the Loutro hotel. It’s basic but perfect. No pool (there’s no space due to the mountain) but the sea is like… there. The first opportunity I have I’m going back. I actually seriously dream of somehow learning Greek and living there. There are turtles. And a mountain (hence no roads).



Shhhhh! We don’t tell people about it! Especially not the Old Fenix hotel.


----------



## Riklet (Aug 8, 2021)

Mate of mine has just had a great holiday in Kos. All included etc.

Just been moaning about how Easyjet staff woke him up on plane to remind him to put his mask back on. Boo hoo etc.

From this one case I judge all foreign holidayers to be entitled cunts!


----------



## BillRiver (Aug 9, 2021)

Has anyone noticed a fair bit of Greece, Turkey, Italy, Spain and other "holiday destinations" are actually on fire right now? Does that impact your thinking at all?


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 9, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Has anyone noticed a fair bit of Greece, Turkey, Italy, Spain and other "holiday destinations" are actually on fire right now? Does that impact your thinking at all?


Our next planned holiday activity is a day trip to Whitby next week so no it doesn't


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 9, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Our next planned holiday activity is a day trip to Whitby next week so no it doesn't



As long as Whitby is fine, that's the main thing


----------



## miss direct (Aug 9, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Has anyone noticed a fair bit of Greece, Turkey, Italy, Spain and other "holiday destinations" are actually on fire right now? Does that impact your thinking at all?


Personally, no. A very small amount of Turkey is on fire (and I think the majority of the forest fires are under control). Life goes on largely as normal there.


----------



## LDC (Aug 9, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Has anyone noticed a fair bit of Greece, Turkey, Italy, Spain and other "holiday destinations" are actually on fire right now? Does that impact your thinking at all



I have flown a lot in my life, for work as well as not, but I have stopped flying in Europe the last 6ish years (I still would if it was urgent though, like a family/friend emergency). It's impacted on how I go away on trips. I used to go to Berlin or France or similar a few times a year for long weekends or a week. I now go less (once a year maybe?), I stay longer when I do go, and I get the train (or sometimes drive) there. It's for me a much more enjoyable way of doing it. And yes, I know not everyone can do that, and no I don't think it's an important change to make, and nor do I tell others to do similar.


----------



## BillRiver (Aug 9, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Personally, no. A very small amount of Turkey is on fire (and I think the majority of the forest fires are under control). Life goes on largely as normal there.



Really?

Fires rage around the world: where are the worst blazes?

"*Turkey - *Blazes have swept through swaths of the southern coast for the past 10 days, killing at least eight people. Tens of thousands of people have been evacuated from their homes, and fire has devastated vast tracts of pine forest and agricultural land. Rain brought some respite over the weekend."


----------



## miss direct (Aug 9, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Really?
> 
> Fires rage around the world: where are the worst blazes?
> 
> "*Turkey - *Blazes have swept through swaths of the southern coast for the past 10 days, killing at least eight people. Tens of thousands of people have been evacuated from their homes, and fire has devastated vast tracts of pine forest and agricultural land. Rain brought some respite over the weekend."



Its hard to know for sure due to difficulties reporting in Turkey. But in a country of 80 million, it's not directly affecting the vast majority of people. Not downplaying it, it's devastating but I dont see why the fires would mean people shouldn't go to another part of a vast country.

Many places depend on tourism. I'm not personally travelling for the purpose of a holiday but I wouldn't judge someone who was.


----------



## BillRiver (Aug 9, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Its hard to know for sure due to difficulties reporting in Turkey. But in a country of 80 million, it's not directly affecting the vast majority of people. Not downplaying it, it's devastating but I dont see why the fires would mean people shouldn't go to another part of a vast country.
> 
> Many places depend on tourism. I'm not personally travelling for the purpose of a holiday but I wouldn't judge someone who was.



I was thinking more about avoiding unnecessary travel, especially flights, because of awareness of its environmental impact, rather than simply not flying to places that are currently on fire.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 9, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I was thinking more about avoiding unnecessary travel, especially flights, because of awareness of its environmental impact, rather than simply not flying to places that are currently on fire.



What's unnecessary travel?


----------



## sparkybird (Aug 10, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I was thinking more about avoiding unnecessary travel, especially flights, because of awareness of its environmental impact, rather than simply not flying to places that are currently on fire.


That's a good point but  needs to go hand in hand with providing alternative employment for those who work in the tourism industry in all those places we've not going to be traveling to. Otherwise how will they support themselves and their families? They'll be more worried about the next days food than global warming.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 10, 2021)

Given the IPCC report, it's only a matter of time before people will have to apply for a licence to travel overseas, and otherwise everyone legally will have to take their holidays at Pontins.


----------



## _Russ_ (Aug 10, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Given the IPCC report, it's only a matter of time before people will have to apply for a licence to travel overseas, and otherwise everyone legally will have to take their holidays at Pontins.


In some ways I am all for it, after all the main reason this is a worldwide Pandemic is a result of mass/frequent international travel, there seems to be a sense of entitlement in the well off west that almost demands it.
The downside will be that any restrictions will as always favour the Rich and powerful and the law will be drafted to facilitate them whilst restricting the less well off and then of course any financial/regulatory/tax relief assistance that large airline companies will receive from the Governments of the world (AKA the taxpayer) to facilitate its recovery  will in effect be a tax on the poor to support the rich...........same as it ever was


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 10, 2021)

_Russ_ said:


> In some ways I am all for it, after all the main reason this is a worldwide Pandemic is a result of mass/frequent international travel, there seems to be a sense of entitlement in the well off west that almost demands it.
> The downside will be that any restrictions will as always favour the Rich and powerful and the law will be drafted to facilitate them whilst restricting the less well off and then of course any financial/regulatory/tax relief assistance that large airline companies will receive from the Governments of the world (AKA the taxpayer) to facilitate its recovery  will in effect be a tax on the poor to support the rich...........same as it ever was


Nah, we could craft legislation so that the higher the net worth people have, the longer they have to stay at Pontins - under armed guard.  That would be fair.


----------



## rubbershoes (Aug 10, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Nah, we could craft legislation so that the higher the net worth people have, the longer they have to stay at Pontins - under armed guard.  That would be fair.



For people who've been to boarding school, Pontins would be like a holiday


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## farmerbarleymow (Aug 10, 2021)

rubbershoes said:


> For people who've been to boarding school, Pontins would be like a holiday


I'm sure we could make it even worse than it already is.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 10, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I'm sure we could make it even worse than it already is.



Not a chance.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 10, 2021)

rubbershoes said:


> For people who've been to boarding school, Pontins would be like a holiday


Brought to mind this quote from Decline and Fall


> “...any one who has been to an English public school will always feel comparatively at home in prison”


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 10, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Not a chance.


Easy - get us lot to stay with them.  You can go first.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 11, 2021)

Disapprovers will be pleased to hear that I've cancelled 10 days in Tenerife from 26th August, now replaced with the Bank Holiday weekend at Billing Aquadome. 

I've also pulled out of playing football in Portugal in mid September - I just can't risk getting stuck out there, with Mrs Smiles and the mini-Smiles at home.

I think that's foreign travel over for me, until there's no test to return to the UK. I guess we might consider the start of the school summer holidays again next year. If we all go and the kids aren't due back at school, the risk of getting stuck there is less of an issue


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 11, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Disapprovers will be pleased to hear that I've cancelled 10 days in Tenerife from 26th August, now replaced with the Bank Holiday weekend at Billing Aquadome.
> 
> I've also pulled out of playing football in Portugal in mid September - I just can't risk getting stuck out there, with Mrs Smiles and the mini-Smiles at home.
> 
> I think that's foreign travel over for me, until there's no test to return to the UK. I guess we might consider the start of the school summer holidays again next year. If we all go and the kids aren't due back at school, the risk of getting stuck there is less of an issue




The testing is shite, isn't it. We won't be going again in a hurry, certainly no weekenders as you'd spend the whole time doing tests and filling out forms.

Why even tests though? Germany's not asking for them at all for vaccinated people. Surely either the vaccines work in which case no tests needed, or they don't work in which case, we're doomed...?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The testing is shite, isn't it. We won't be going again in a hurry, certainly no weekenders as you'd spend the whole time doing tests and filling out forms.
> 
> Why even tests though? Germany's not asking for them at all for vaccinated people. Surely either the vaccines work in which case no tests needed, or they don't work in which case, we're doomed...?



Nah, that's making a binary yes/no to vaccines working. When the reality is they are effective, but not 100%.

I'd be happy with just the day 2 test when you return - and obviously if you are positive, you isolate. For it to be worth travelling again, they'd need to stop track and tracing you as a contact off the plane too. I spend £350 on tests for the 4 of us all in, all of them negative, but still got messaged to isolate a week after we landed.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2021)

Spoke to someone living in Cornwall who said loads of the hospitality places are closed due to Covid cases  those that are open are all rammed.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 11, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Spoke to someone living in Cornwall who said loads of the hospitality places are closed due to Covid cases  those that are open are all rammed.


Are they sure it’s covid and not Brexit ?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 11, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Nah, that's making a binary yes/no to vaccines working. When the reality is the effective, but not 100%.




When do we stop testing then? Never? Yellow Fever vaccine is not 100%, but countries that require it do not ask for testing too. The UK naturally has stupidly high prices for tests and if they are being checked at all they are near as damn-it all negative, what's the point?



Who is checking these ones? £50-£200 a pop...


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Why even tests though? Germany's not asking for them at all for vaccinated people. Surely either the vaccines work in which case no tests needed, or they don't work in which case, we're doomed...?


They can work in preventing serious illness and death in the majority of people, without working to the extent that nobody vaccinated gets infected and can transmit.

And we might expect differences in extent of vaccine effect depending on the strain in question. In theory even if vaccines totally blocked infection by various strains, allowing unvaccinated people to travel without testing would actually be adding to the selection pressure. Because it would be an invitation for random mutations that could bypass that vaccine effect to thrive and spread. This is still an issue even with the current situation where eisting known variants arent completely blocked by current vaccines.

Most of the compromises to rules these days are not sensible if we consider what the vaccines are proven to do so far. They are a compromise based on non-virus matters such as economic considerations and mental health.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> When do we stop testing then? Never? Yellow Fever vaccine is not 100%, but countries that require it do not ask for testing too. The UK naturally has stupidly high prices for tests and if they are being checked at all they are near as damn-it all negative, what's the point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because they've got their money for the tests - what does it matter that they don't deliver on the promise?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Are they sure it’s covid and not Brexit ?


 

Brexit is mostly only damaging the retailer's although it seems some hospitality venues are having to limit their range.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 11, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Because they've got their money for the tests - what does it matter that they don't deliver on the promise?




Oh yeah, 20% VAT is charged on each and every test in the UK. All made in China too


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> When do we stop testing then? Never? Yellow Fever vaccine is not 100%, but countries that require it do not ask for testing too. The UK naturally has stupidly high prices for tests and if they are being checked at all they are near as damn-it all negative, what's the point?


Depends on several factors including how seriously the surveillance of new variants is taken.

Likely there will be increasing pressure to reduce the amount of testing and circumstances where it is deemed essential. Due to many things including cost and inconvenience and the testing regime being a constant reminder to people that things are not normal, acting as a cue for people to maintain abnormal behaviour in response to the threat.

So certainly those with an agenda of moving back to treating this virus like we treat other viruses, and getting population behaviours to return to normal, will be starting to talk about reducing testing and/or not publishing daily figures for number of positive people etc.

Competent authorities would not consider it wise to perform such a change at this particular stage. At a minimum they should wait until we see if our hospitals etc can cope with an autumn and winter during the vaccinated era. Beyond that they should still tread extremely carefully when it comes to keeping an eye on mutations. I would not want to lose sight of that side of the picture until we are more confident that a certain combination of vaccines, or vaccines plus infection, offers long-lasting protection against all the spike mutations that we think could bypass immunity.


----------



## 2hats (Aug 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> When do we stop testing then? Never? Yellow Fever vaccine is not 100%, but countries that require it do not ask for testing too.


Case rate of yellow fever globally is <<1/100k; in the few (<10) countries significantly affected by it, the rate is around, or just under, 1/100k. So if every country can hit around 85% fully vaccinated and single digits per 100k case rates then testing for regular activities wouldn't be necessary (just maintain longitudinal monitoring via sampling in healthcare, blood donation and wastewater surveillance).


----------



## Petcha (Aug 11, 2021)

My ex is taking my son to a villa in the mountains in Greece next week, which should have some 'interesting' views for them to enjoy by their pool sipping cocktails.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> When do we stop testing then? Never? Yellow Fever vaccine is not 100%, but countries that require it do not ask for testing too. The UK naturally has stupidly high prices for tests and if they are being checked at all they are near as damn-it all negative, what's the point?
> 
> Who is checking these ones? £50-£200 a pop...


Yeah, those Randox Boxes were overflowing when I dropped ours off too. 

I don't know when testing should stop, but I do know I won't fork out £ks on a holiday where we might end up stuck abroad in a quarantine hotel ever again.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Yeah, those Randox Boxes were overflowing when I dropped ours off too.
> 
> I don't know when testing should stop, but I do know I won't fork out £ks on a holiday where we might end up stuck abroad in a quarantine hotel ever again.


Odd that... 

Private companies charging stupid money for PCR tests then failing to deliver. 

Our staff do LFT every day. If they test postive and isolate they still get paid. However they need a PCR in order to get paid. 

One member of staff tested positive and had mild symptoms. She did a PCR the same day and that took 12 days to come back (positive) so 2 days after Isolation ends


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 11, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Odd that...
> 
> Private companies charging stupid money for PCR tests then failing to deliver.


See also, tourists resorts not really wanting to find positives. We did out return to UK tests on a video call with a UK lab. On the same holiday, more than one family told us independently they had booked a test in resort and been given a negative cert without actually doing the test.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 11, 2021)

Standard hospital tests for the purposes of travel are £25 in Turkey. That seems fair.
Wondering how to get my PCR test for my outward journey. My friend just went and paid £90, then her flight was cancelled, so she had to rebook a new test at another £90 cost. (She is travelling to collect her child, who she's been separated from for a year...not a holiday).


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 11, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Standard hospital tests for the purposes of travel are £25 in Turkey. That seems fair.
> Wondering how to get my PCR test for my outward journey. My friend just went and paid £90, then her flight was cancelled, so she had to rebook a new test at another £90 cost. (She is travelling to collect her child, who she's been separated from for a year...not a holiday).


In England? Randox ones for home are £43 with a discount code.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 11, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> In England? Randox ones for home are £43 with a discount code.





			https://www.jet2.com/en/flights/safe-travel/covid-19-test
		


Discount code if your scroll down the page here


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 11, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Standard hospital tests for the purposes of travel are £25 in Turkey. That seems fair.
> Wondering how to get my PCR test for my outward journey. My friend just went and paid £90, then her flight was cancelled, so she had to rebook a new test at another £90 cost. (She is travelling to collect her child, who she's been separated from for a year...not a holiday).



Turkey accepts Antigen tests taken with 48 hours prior to arrival, you can book one at Heathrow or wherever to be taken four hours before you fly. Under £50…


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 11, 2021)

Flights to Albania have started again.  Amber listed and they don't require tests to get in just the one before you fly home (PCR test 35 euros at Tirana airport) and the 2nd day thing.  Nice coastline, fascinating cities and you're money goes fucking miles.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Turkey accepts Antigen tests taken with 48 hours prior to arrival, you can book one at Heathrow or wherever to be taken four hours before you fly. Under £50…


PCR only from the UK.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 11, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> Flights to Albania have started again.  Amber listed and they don't require tests to get in just the one before you fly home (PCR test 35 euros at Tirana airport) and the 2nd day thing.  Nice coastline, fascinating cities and you're money goes fucking miles.


I'd be careful with that. It's being used a route back for many from red list countries due to the lack of restrictions and I've heard of very crowded airports, lack of distancing, masks, etc.


----------



## seeformiles (Aug 11, 2021)

I know someone who has booked 2 weeks in Spain in a few weeks time and thinks all the potential testing/quarantining is going to be worth it. We’re certainly not even going to consider it until things calm down to a near normal level. In any case, lack of funds have meant we haven’t been on holiday abroad (or anywhere for that matter) for about 15 years and both our passports are long expired. 

Personally, reasons to go abroad have been declining for some time now:


Mediterranean countries are no longer the super-cheap destinations they once were (I always wondered where the Spanish and Portuguese went for a cheap holiday?)
Foreign specialities are now pretty ubiquitous in UK supermarkets now in a way they weren’t 20 years ago
Air Travel is no longer a pleasure - more like a stress-fest
Crossing borders post-Brexit is still a bit of an unknown quantity.

We’re lucky enough to have a garden that is surrounded by mature trees and shrubs, has several levels with sheltered nooks and sun traps so lounging there on a sunny day can (with a bit of imagination with food, drink & music) replicate some destinations pretty well. It has made many things (incl lack of holidays) bearable for quite a while now and we count our blessings daily.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 11, 2021)

miss direct said:


> I'd be careful with that. It's being used a route back for many from red list countries due to the lack of restrictions and I've heard of very crowded airports, lack of distancing, masks, etc.



Possibly.  Though if you're thinking of boarding a plane you're going to have to come to terms with the probability you'll encounter crowds.  Masks have largely been abandoned in the UK now as far as I can see.

The flight I'm looking at as a possibility appears to only have 1 person booked so far.  Or at least only 1 seat reserved.


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 11, 2021)

We're not likely to take a foreign holiday again until all this testing crap has come to end.  I fully understand the need for it and support it, I just don't want to do it so here we are stuck in good old Blighty for the forseeable.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 11, 2021)

This thread has become a bit of a defacto travel related discussion, anyway it was intended to be questioning the motive for holiday travel only, not VFR, end of life, family reunions, travelling for work etc


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2021)

I am not holidaying for 9 months at least. Probably would have done a while ago but since then I have interacted with thousands of people that had Covid and it is fucking horrible. 

Don't need a beach or a wotnot that much.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 11, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> This thread has become a bit of a defacto travel related discussion, anyway it was intended to be questioning the motive for holiday travel only, not VFR, end of life, family reunions, travelling for work etc



Have you not heard?  Pandemic is over, time to move on as there's nothing to see here.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> Have you not heard?  Pandemic is over, time to move on as there's nothing to see here.


Get the pandemic DONE


----------



## thismoment (Aug 11, 2021)

Glitter said:


> We stayed in Rethymnon. It was really quiet but we could find a party if we wanted one.
> 
> I love Greece and the Greek Islands tbf. I go to Spain regularly (in normal times) as my folks have a place there, so it’s easy and convenient, but I love Greece much more than Spain.



I have stayed in Rethymnon too. Gosh, I loved it so much. Being there twice now. I love how warm the sea is! And the food ☺️

I wonder if I would’ve been tempted to go if i didn’t have a toddler this time round. Although I prob wouldn’t because I wouldn’t be able to afford the quarantine hotel if the rules changed whilst I was away. 

I would absolutely love to visit Santorini one day. I am currently insanely envious of Millie Mackintosh’s (of made in chelsea fame”) pics of her holiday in Crete right now


----------



## Maggot (Aug 11, 2021)

_Russ_ said:


> In some ways I am all for it, after all the main reason this is a worldwide Pandemic is a result of mass/frequent international travel, there seems to be a sense of entitlement in the well off west that almost demands it.
> The downside will be that any restrictions will as always favour the Rich and powerful and the law will be drafted to facilitate them whilst restricting the less well off and then of course any financial/regulatory/tax relief assistance that large airline companies will receive from the Governments of the world (AKA the taxpayer) to facilitate its recovery  will in effect be a tax on the poor to support the rich...........same as it ever was


A frequent flyer tax would hit the rich more, and cut flights. Everyone gets a return flight a year at current prices then pays an increasing tax on any subsequent flights.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 11, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> This thread has become a bit of a defacto travel related discussion, anyway it was intended to be questioning the motive for holiday travel only, not VFR, end of life, family reunions, travelling for work etc


Sorry, that's probably me. It's a very useful thread - whatever the reason anyone is travelling, we're facing the same obstacles. And to be honest, I fully intend to squeeze in an actual holiday while I'm in Turkey. I haven't had any time off since January 2020 and am completely burnt out.


----------



## Supine (Aug 11, 2021)

I don’t think I’ll be doing any international travel for a while yet. Good to know the islands i like going to in SE Asia are being vaccinated now though.

I won’t be going with all of this testing stuff going on that’s for sure.


----------



## newme (Aug 12, 2021)

I know people in reasonably high up renewables managerial positions who just flew back on a plane. She's a lovely person in general but wow did it make little sense  currently.


----------



## Riklet (Aug 13, 2021)

Im not well enough to travel yet, even if I wanted to. But I doubt I would this year anyway, too much hassle. Although im very jelous hearing the awesome travel storied and posts on this thread, filled me with good memories and a bit of envy!! I reckon I'll be off to Madeira next year, when it's easier/safer/cheaper etc. I took 12 flights in 2019... so I guess a few years off makes up for it. 

Also, I can confirm that Crete, Colombia and Albania are all excellent destinations. Some of my best holiday trips in fact!  Would love to go back to all three. miss direct I reckon Ukraine would be awesome for 10 days btw.. Odesa maybe?


----------



## klang (Aug 20, 2021)

quick question - somebody I know will be arriving in the UK later on today (Friday). They ordered a PCR for the two-days-in test last Friday  (to my address) but it hasn't arrived. They sent an email on Wed and Thursday but only got a 'soz we're busy, will get back to you in a couple of days' reply. Still no sign of a test or reply.
What to do? They need to test by Sunday.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 20, 2021)

klang said:


> quick question - somebody I know will be arriving in the UK later on today (Friday). They ordered a PCR for the two-days-in test last Friday  (to my address) but it hasn't arrived. They sent an email on Wed and Thursday but only got a 'soz we're busy, will get back to you in a couple of days' reply. Still no sign of a test or reply.
> What to do? They need to test by Sunday.


Personally, I'd just wait for it to show up and do it when it does. They obviously have the reference for the Passenger Locator Form, they've paid through the nose to a government sanctioned provider, what more can they do?


----------



## klang (Aug 20, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Personally, I'd just wait for it to show up and do it when it does. They obviously have the reference for the Passenger Locator Form, they've paid through the nose to a government sanctioned provider, what more can they do?


yep


----------



## Badgers (Aug 20, 2021)

klang said:


> quick question - somebody I know will be arriving in the UK later on today (Friday). They ordered a PCR for the two-days-in test last Friday  (to my address) but it hasn't arrived. They sent an email on Wed and Thursday but only got a 'soz we're busy, will get back to you in a couple of days' reply. Still no sign of a test or reply.
> What to do? They need to test by Sunday.


They are fucked under this disgraced #ToryScum government's outsourcing programmes sadly. One of my staff waiting 12 days this month.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 20, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Personally, I'd just wait for it to show up and do it when it does. They obviously have the reference for the Passenger Locator Form, they've paid through the nose to a government sanctioned provider, what more can they do?



This. They've done everything they're required to do.


----------



## zora (Aug 20, 2021)

After reading about "travel test chaos", I went for an in person test to this little clinic in an opticians in Shepherd's Bush.  PCR Travel LTD

It cost £79, but I couldn't find any significantly cheaper postal tests anyway, and wanted to save myself the stress of was it going to arrive or not. 
Was in and out in 5 mins in the morning, had email result by 9pm in the evening.

It might be a bit far from you (they have another clinic in E7 if that's any better, though for some reason price there is listed as £89..). And obviously you'd still have the hassle of trying to get a refund from the original company if you don't want to pay double. 

Other option would be to do nothing further, as posters above suggest.

Feels like a complete farce tbf, not just in the poor delivery of this service but to make people test who come back from countries with vastly lower incidence. 
I was more likely to have caught covid from the maskless young man (not a traveller, but a construction worker) with the streaming cold who was coughing and sneezing in my carriage on the train from the airport on Sunday - or indeed the work colleague who tested positive on Tuesday after being in the shop all day. But I am glad the government made sure I didn't "seed" any infections in the country...


----------



## miss direct (Aug 20, 2021)

The testing system for travel is horrendous. Spent hours and hours trying to work out what to do and how not to pay £100+ 

I've ordered a randox test to be delivered. Cost £43. Hope it works...


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 20, 2021)

We’re holidaying by this place 👍


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 20, 2021)

I’m going back to the U.K. October for a week and have just been told that I don’t need a test to embark on the flight back here as EU vaccine passport holders are exempt . Going to have to check this out with Jet2 but if it’s true , very good .


----------



## zora (Aug 21, 2021)

Oops, spoke too soon!

Just got "pinged" from my flight last Sunday! Just as well that I had cancelled a few engagements I had planned for yesterday anyway due to the (v brief) contact with covid positive colleague...

And I guess in a sense my point about it not making much difference to incidence in this country still stands, but feeling a tad sheepish now.

What I haven't been able to find out anywhere is if the whole flight gets notified, or just people sitting nearby? I did have to give my seat number on the passenger locator form.


----------



## oryx (Aug 21, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> We're not likely to take a foreign holiday again until all this testing crap has come to end.  I fully understand the need for it and support it, I just don't want to do it so here we are stuck in good old Blighty for the forseeable.


Exactly the same here.

OH and I were having a 'when do yo think we might get away?' type conversation tonight and the thought of a positive test at the airport, or last minute, or not being able to provide proof of being double-jabbed for some bureaucratic reason etc. is just too off-putting.

Like you I fully support all the testing etc. and am quite happy to go abroad as many countries have a far lower Covid rate than here, just can't abide the thought of all the hassle. 

Not really interested in a UK holiday as the weather is shite and according to our neighbours, who both work and have two young-ish kids and really needed a holiday, it's really hard to book anywhere decent. Might look at few day trips when OH has recovered from (elective, welcomed and not serious) surgery and is able to walk longer distances.

Haven't been out of London since December 2019, but I'm fine with that although I miss going abroad.


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 21, 2021)

oryx said:


> Exactly the same here.
> 
> OH and I were having a 'when do yo think we might get away?' type conversation tonight and the thought of a positive test at the airport, or last minute, or not being able to provide proof of being double-jabbed for some bureaucratic reason etc. is just too off-putting.
> 
> ...


We looked at a week in Cornwall and the cheapest we could find was £3k and there were non available until October so far we have settled for a day trip to Stratford and another to Whitby.
It rained both days so yay for the British weather


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2021)

Norway, Austria and Germany were near enough 100% closed to U.K. arrivals until mid July and now they are 100% open to fully vaccinated arrivals from the U.K. with no tests or forms. The U.K. is being left behind here…


----------



## ska invita (Aug 21, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> I’m going back to the U.K. October for a week and have just been told that I don’t need a test to embark on the flight back here as EU vaccine passport holders are exempt . Going to have to check this out with Jet2 but if it’s true , very good .


....the situation by October could be very different


----------



## Badgers (Aug 21, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The U.K. is being left behind here…


#worldbeating


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> I’m going back to the U.K. October for a week and have just been told that I don’t need a test to embark on the flight back here as EU vaccine passport holders are exempt . Going to have to check this out with Jet2 but if it’s true , very good .





ska invita said:


> ....the situation by October could be very different




The current regulations coming to the UK are that you do need a test before travel, a completed passenger locator form and a test on day 2 after you arrive. This is expensive and arduous and really needs to end for fully vaccinated people not arriving from high risk (red) countries.

But to return to Portugal no tests needed.


----------



## smmudge (Aug 21, 2021)

It doesn't really make much sense to insist on all the tests coming in when they're happy for it to spread around within the borders as much as possible.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 21, 2021)

Coming up with a plan B for my pre travel PCR test. Times make everything awkward. Test must be taken within 72 hours of arrival. Arrival is 5ish on Saturday. So the earliest I can take it would be 5ish on Wednesday. However, the local drop off place (the only one in the entire region!) only accepts the tests between 9 and 4 (of course!) So I can't drop off till Thursday morning. Doesn't give much time. They say most results are back within 24 hours after arriving at lab - how am I supposed to know when they get to the lab? And what do I do if it gets to late on Friday and I haven't got my certificate? Have a feeling I will end up paying hundreds for a quick result service. The whole thing stinks.

Read through the plethora of information more carefully and it says: "For samples returned via Randox drop box, we aim to provide next day results up to 11.59pm."

11:59pm the night before a very early start to the airport. Friday may be a bit anxious.


----------



## zora (Aug 21, 2021)

Hmm, tricky and stressful, miss direct  :/
As I said, I had success with my in-person test that advertised same day results - I had my result 10 hours after the test. (Though I guess if something had gone wrong at the lab end, that could have failed, too.)

Something like this, maybe? Seems to say next day results and they have appointments between 5 and 6pm.









						Fit2Fly Pre-Departure PCR - Next Day By 6pm - £69.99  - Fittoflytest.uk
					

Date or Time not available? Contact 07411373388 to arrange out-of-hour bookings.All you need to bring with you to your Fit to Fly PCR test in Sheffield is your passport. Please wear a mask with you when entering the pharmacy and visit only with those undergoing testing.The remainder amount is to be




					calendly.com
				




Or this Fit to fly test and cert | Fit to fly Sheffield

(Disclaimer - just having a little google on my phone. This is the type of service I would probably go for, but would have another thorough look at small print/reviews/any cut off points for timings)

Have you booked yours already? If yes, I would have thought that the time window you have described is pretty decent and there's a good chance it will come through. I know that's only moderately reassuring!
ETA: Just seen your edit, and it looks like you have booked your test already.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 21, 2021)

Thank you. Yes, I ordered the test (which takes 4-6 working days to arrive - WHY when Amazon can manage next day delivery?) but good to have a back up.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 21, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The current regulations coming to the UK are that you do need a test before travel, a completed passenger locator form and a test on day 2 after you arrive. This is expensive and arduous and really needs to end for fully vaccinated people not arriving from high risk (red) countries.
> 
> But to return to Portugal no tests needed.


Up the Portuguese 👍


----------



## oryx (Aug 21, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> We looked at a week in Cornwall and the cheapest we could find was £3k


----------



## kebabking (Aug 21, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> We looked at a week in Cornwall and the cheapest we could find was £3k and there were non available until October so far we have settled for a day trip to Stratford and another to Whitby.
> It rained both days so yay for the British weather





oryx said:


>



We didn't even look at the south coast - we went to Northumberland.

We got this place for £900. 3 miles from the beach, sleeps 8, absolutely gorgeous. Stopped off in York at an air-b&b for few days on the way home.

Probably bought 2 parking tickets the whole week, never had a problem with crowds or being ripped off.

Went to Edinburgh for the day, did a boat trip to the farne islands, went to Bamburgh castle, mooched around Berwick.

It was shit, obvs...


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 21, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The current regulations coming to the UK are that you do need a test before travel, a completed passenger locator form and a test on day 2 after you arrive. This is expensive and arduous and really needs to end for fully vaccinated people not arriving from high risk (red) countries.


I can guarantee It will end next week, because I’ve just forked out £129 for three testing kits for when we get back.


----------



## trashpony (Aug 22, 2021)

I have just come back from the Azores (part of Portugal) because I was unable to move my flights again except at vast expense.

My advice would be to double triple check the requirements as if you don’t have the right paperwork, they won’t let you on the plane.

There were loads of people going who had misunderstood the vaccine requirements for going out. Some thought if they were double jabbed in the U.K., that was the same as an EU vaccine passport. It’s not. Others thought they would be allowed on the plane to quarantine and test at the other end (azores regs). Again, not true.

You have to have a PCR in the U.K. or they won’t let you board.

Similarly, massive queue at check in to come home yesterday but the plane took off half full. I guess because people hadn’t had a test before leaving and/or booked their day 2 test.

It’s a pretty brutal system. And if you can avoid travelling, do. It was chaos at the airport.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 23, 2021)

trashpony said:


> I have just come back from the Azores (part of Portugal) because I was unable to move my flights again except at vast expense.
> 
> My advice would be to double triple check the requirements as if you don’t have the right paperwork, they won’t let you on the plane.
> 
> ...


My other half nearly didn’t get out here at the end of July as she thought an NHS home lateral flow test would be OK (you do get a confirmation text/email as ‘proof’, which is what she presented). This was based on confusing information on the airline website and country’s requirements for nationals with a passport rather than tourists (airline had more stringent rules). I think we basically blagged it, they had to ask a manager and I think saw a stressed mum with two excited young kids and waved it through. She was then able to use the slip you get from easyJet confirming documents had been checked to get past immigration in Portugal, who weren’t really scrutinising things very thoroughly.

I got a verified lateral flow (done via video) and that was fine for coming out here a few weeks later, nothing stating PCR required and airline was fine with it - what carrier were you with?  I know another friend who came out here to visit family who did PCR for some reason (£120 each), then had to do them again as their flight was cancelled and moved a few days - and I think there was nothing they could do about getting money back from the airline or anything.

I was out of the airport at this end in under 10 minutes from landing, no bother at all (tiny hand luggage, first to passport control). Getting through all the outbound checks at Bristol was under half an hour too.  Next week I get to see what it is like the other way round...


----------



## trashpony (Aug 23, 2021)

I was with Ryanair but it’s Azores rules. You have to have a PCR to enter OR EU Covid passport.

I think the issue going out was that Ryanair (being Irish) prioritise EU covid tests as mandatory in their info rather than the PCR tests. All the people I saw getting turned back on the way out were Portuguese so not native English speakers.

When you arrive, you are sent to a series of marquees where someone in full plastic anti contamination gear checks your results before they let you out of the airport. It was pretty quick though.

Coming back was hopeless because they had only one check in desk open and initially only one person checking evidence of negative test plus reading your PLF. Then they opened another check in desk and all the people from the back of the queue ran to that but weren’t allowed to check in because they hadn’t had their documents checked. Utter chaos.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 23, 2021)

Feeling anxious about my PCR test for two reasons: 
1. Still don't know it will work and I will get the fit to fly certificate on time. 
2. Went to various restaurants at the weekend and am worried about a positive test.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 24, 2021)

Decided to take a lateral flow test a few times this week to reassure myself. Will also take a pack along with me.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 26, 2021)

Dropped my sample off this morning into a plastic box at a strange new age shop. Haven't had my confirmation that it's arrived at the lab, even though I dropped it off at 9am and there are apparently multiple pick ups throughout the day, and it's only going 1.5 hours away. Have a funny feeling I won't get it on time.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 27, 2021)

Had a dream that I got a positive result and was secretly relieved that I could just stay at home. But woke up to an email saying my test arrived at the lab (sent at 1am), so looks like I should get my result in time to travel.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 27, 2021)

I really don't know why someone would choose to do this just for a holiday. It's a lot of stress with all the unknowns. Turkey is still on the red list so I don't even know how long I'm going for. Packing summer and autumn clothes just in case.


----------



## Epona (Aug 27, 2021)

I've not had a holiday since my honeymoon (August 2006, 5 days in Penzance, it was fucking lovely), I really have very little sympathy with anyone who thinks they need to have a holiday abroad right now.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 27, 2021)

So as I see it, the basic process is this:

1) Travel large distances for non-essential purposes during a pandemic
2) Suffer some inconvenience as a result of this
3) Cry about it

Meanwhile, in real problems...









						COVID-19: Tourist board in Cornwall urges people not to visit county unless they have pre-booked amid sharp rise in cases
					

The chief executive of Visit Cornwall says visitors who do come should test themselves extensively and aim to "treble their efforts as much as possible" with the hands, face, space guidance.




					news.sky.com
				












						All areas in Devon now have higher COVID rate than UK average
					

All council areas of Devon now have a higher COVID rate than the UK average,...




					planetradio.co.uk


----------



## miss direct (Aug 27, 2021)

Have my certificate ready to fly. Thats a relief. 

The plane I'm going on is massive (2,4,2 formation.) Hoping it won't be too busy but as flights to Turkey have been consolidated I'm not optimistic.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 27, 2021)

Cornwall is probably twice as busy at usual. There is probably about 20% mask wearing and the pavements, pubs and restaurants are rammed.


----------



## nagapie (Aug 27, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Cornwall is probably twice as busy at usual. There is probably about 20% mask wearing and the pavements, pubs and restaurants are rammed.


Twice as busy as normal or twice as busy as normal summer holidays?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 27, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Twice as busy as normal or twice as busy as normal summer holidays?


Usually the numbers quadruple in the summer. This is way way more than this.

Due to some pubs/restaurants/shops being closed due to Covid and Brexit issues the others are rammed.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 27, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Twice as busy as normal or twice as busy as normal summer holidays?



30,000 extra people relative to a normal summer season apparently.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 27, 2021)

There are a lot of unhappy Cornish locals on Reddit complaining about the parking, traffic situation and the impact it has on their lives etc 

And a few tourists saying how hard it is to book a table for dinner anywhere who don’t get much sympathy


----------



## trashpony (Aug 27, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Have my certificate ready to fly. Thats a relief.
> 
> The plane I'm going on is massive (2,4,2 formation.) Hoping it won't be too busy but as flights to Turkey have been consolidated I'm not optimistic.


Phew. I would expect quite a few people to be turned away for misunderstanding the rules to be honest.

Check in times are slow as they have to check everyone has their fit to fly/PLF.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 27, 2021)

Yes and there is quite a bit of paperwork required for Turkey. I haven't been able to print it off because I haven't got a printer or a way of accessing one before my flight, so hopefully there won't be a fuss about it being on my phone. 

I arrive at the airport almost 3 hours before my flight which should be plenty. I hope.


----------



## trashpony (Aug 27, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Yes and there is quite a bit of paperwork required for Turkey. I haven't been able to print it off because I haven't got a printer or a way of accessing one before my flight, so hopefully there won't be a fuss about it being on my phone.
> 
> I arrive at the airport almost 3 hours before my flight which should be plenty. I hope.


Yes, phone is fine. I printed my paperwork going out but most people just had it on their phones. I didn't have a hard copy coming back and it wasn't an issue


----------



## miss direct (Aug 27, 2021)

Went to a print shop in the end. One of the forms  wouldn't download and didnt fancy faffing about trying to locate multiple different documents. Now to pack.


----------



## Anju (Aug 28, 2021)

Just had an argument with a friend I've known since school. He's getting a fake offer of consultancy work in order to circumvent the no tourist visa rule in India. His justification is that he's double jabbed, always wears a mask and follows all advised precautions. Didn't go down well when I pointed out that he's not following all advised precautions if he's ignoring those implemented by the country he wants to visit. Also let him know that I know two Indian couples with young children who have neither visited or had visitors since the start of the pandemic and it's not fair that someone would prioritise their holiday needs when others are putting off family stuff. 

Hoping he will reflect on his decision and change his mind when he realises how selfish he's being. He wasn't like this when younger. Came here as a child refugee and we used to get up to all kinds of dodgy but fun stuff. Unfortunately he got mixed up with the BBC after he went to university and ended up going full radio 4. I think that's what messed him up and led to this level of selfish cuntery.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 28, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Went to a print shop in the end. One of the forms  wouldn't download and didnt fancy faffing about trying to locate multiple different documents. Now to pack.


Safe trip miss direct


----------



## xenon (Aug 28, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> So as I see it, the basic process is this:
> 
> 1) Travel large distances for non-essential purposes during a pandemic
> 2) Suffer some inconvenience as a result of this
> ...



I'm glad I got down there, Cornwall,  for a few days in May. The first week the pubs opened. Rained a fair bit but was great.


----------



## klang (Aug 30, 2021)

So, the person staying with me never received their two-day pcr kit. They sent query emails twice, only to receive an auto reply 'due to the high number of emails we receive we can not provide an answer to your question straight away but will get back to you within 48 hours'. Nobody ever got back to us.

In the end they left after 10 days without testing themselves.

Today they sent an email asking for a refund (£89) and received the following reply:

Good morning,

Thank you for your email , Can you please return the kit unused to 23 Townhead StHamilton ML3 7BQ,

Once we have this back we can request a refund to be made, This will show in your account within 5 to 10 days.

Please let us know when this has been returned.

There is also a £25 restocking fee applicable per kit.

Kind regards,
Josh S


----------



## bimble (Aug 31, 2021)

I note with interest that Switzerland has just been added to America's 'red list' (with advice to not go there if you can help it). 
It's their massed ranks of vaccine refusers, that's the cause of their case numbers the bloody idiots. Still stuck at around a 50% vaccination rate, the weirdos.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 31, 2021)

The U.K. already being there of course. COVID-19 in the United Kingdom - COVID-19 Very High - Level 4: COVID-19 Very High - Travel Health Notices | Travelers' Health | CDC


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 31, 2021)

klang said:


> So, the person staying with me never received their two-day pcr kit. They sent query emails twice, only to receive an auto reply 'due to the high number of emails we receive we can not provide an answer to your question straight away but will get back to you within 48 hours'. Nobody ever got back to us.
> 
> In the end they left after 10 days without testing themselves.
> 
> ...


Might be worth reporting them to the CMA as they're warning these companies about taking the piss with this sort of thing.









						CMA warns PCR test providers against breaking consumer law
					

The CMA has sent an open letter to PCR COVID-19 test providers warning that a range of harmful practices in the sector could breach consumer protection law.




					www.gov.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 1, 2021)

bimble said:


> I note with interest that Switzerland has just been added to America's 'red list' (with advice to not go there if you can help it).
> It's their massed ranks of vaccine refusers, that's the cause of their case numbers the bloody idiots. Still stuck at around a 50% vaccination rate, the weirdos.



Swiss people being weird shocker


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 6, 2021)

Has anyone travelled into England recently from a Green or Amber country?

I'm interested in the proof needed for the booking of the Day 2 test. Who is checking this? The airlines or officials in the UK on arrival?

I can get a free PCR test on site at work but I don't need to book it, I just show up. Obvs I don't want to have to fork out £40 odd quid for a private test when I can get a PCR one for free. But what kind of proof do they need? Emails? Text messages? Is anyone even asking for proof of a booking or is it just an unchecked requirement.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Sep 6, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> Has anyone travelled into England recently from a Green or Amber country?
> 
> I'm interested in the proof needed for the booking of the Day 2 test. Who is checking this? The airlines or officials in the UK on arrival?
> 
> I can get a free PCR test on site at work but I don't need to book it, I just show up. Obvs I don't want to have to fork out £40 odd quid for a private test when I can get a PCR one for free. But what kind of proof do they need? Emails? Text messages? Is anyone even asking for proof of a booking or is it just an unchecked requirement.


Me too, but I'm more interested in the Covid test you're supposed to take before you come back. Hoping to go to Spain late October but it currently looks too much of a faff because you'd waste a day just getting a PCR test pre-return unless i'm missing something. Seems easy to go out if you've been double-jabbed it's the return that is more problematic.


----------



## brix_kitty (Sep 6, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> Has anyone travelled into England recently from a Green or Amber country?
> 
> I'm interested in the proof needed for the booking of the Day 2 test. Who is checking this? The airlines or officials in the UK on arrival?
> 
> I can get a free PCR test on site at work but I don't need to book it, I just show up. Obvs I don't want to have to fork out £40 odd quid for a private test when I can get a PCR one for free. But what kind of proof do they need? Emails? Text messages? Is anyone even asking for proof of a booking or is it just an unchecked requirement.


I did it 3 weeks ago. You have to enter the booking reference number for the test on the passenger locator form. The airlines will only check you have done the form. There were signs in the queue for UK border control saying they were checking evidence of booking (e.g. email) but no one checked mine, or my passenger locator form. No idea if anyone actually checks whether the booking reference number is valid... but the test provider has to meet certain minimum requirements, more info here: https://www.find-travel-test-provider.service.gov.uk/test-type/green#standards


----------



## MBV (Sep 6, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Me too, but I'm more interested in the Covid test you're supposed to take before you come back. Hoping to go to Spain late October but it currently looks too much of a faff because you'd waste a day just getting a PCR test pre-return unless i'm missing something. Seems easy to go out if you've been double-jabbed it's the return that is more problematic.



I'm going to Italy in Oct where I've worked out I need a test prior to flying. Then coming back:

After you arrive in England you must take a COVID-19 test on or before day 2 from Red, amber, green lists: check the rules for travel to England from abroad


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 6, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Me too, but I'm more interested in the Covid test you're supposed to take before you come back. Hoping to go to Spain late October but it currently looks too much of a faff because you'd waste a day just getting a PCR test pre-return unless i'm missing something. Seems easy to go out if you've been double-jabbed it's the return that is more problematic.



I've seen services for the 72-hours before return (to England) where you can take a test on video within the 72 hours of returning and when you show them the negative result, they'll issue you with the certificate. So in theory you can take the test kit with you rather than have to find a local test centre.

I'll see if I can find more detail on this in a bit as I'm just leaving work.


----------



## LDC (Sep 6, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> Has anyone travelled into England recently from a Green or Amber country?
> 
> I'm interested in the proof needed for the booking of the Day 2 test. Who is checking this? The airlines or officials in the UK on arrival?
> 
> I can get a free PCR test on site at work but I don't need to book it, I just show up. Obvs I don't want to have to fork out £40 odd quid for a private test when I can get a PCR one for free. But what kind of proof do they need? Emails? Text messages? Is anyone even asking for proof of a booking or is it just an unchecked requirement.



IIRC it can't be an NHS one (if that's what your free one at work is) so you have to pay for one from a private provider.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 6, 2021)

You get a reference from the company you buy the test from without which you can’t complete the passenger locator form.

There are no checks that you actually do the test though.


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 12, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> I've seen services for the 72-hours before return (to England) where you can take a test on video within the 72 hours of returning and when you show them the negative result, they'll issue you with the certificate. So in theory you can take the test kit with you rather than have to find a local test centre.
> 
> I'll see if I can find more detail on this in a bit as I'm just leaving work.


For the Pre-departure lateral flows, it’s often cheaper to do them in the country you’re visiting, we paid €20 in Portugal for tests at a drive-through place, the provider was listed by easyJet with links to booking. About £30-40 if you want to do a U.K. based one.  

The place we went to also administered the test themselves, and shoved the swab up my nose much further than I would, I was expecting it to come out of my ear! They said it didn‘t work unless you went all the way up, which I already thought I was doing.


----------



## pbsmooth (Sep 12, 2021)

Knowing the ball ache people have gone through with tests etc to go on holiday... I pity them!


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2021)

So it looks like there will be an announcement regarding travel rules tomorrow.  The new rules will come in force in time for half-term.

Obviously no official news but the reporting is that amber and green will be merged and red zone countries will be reduced to the most at risk.

I know some here won't like this at all but its essentially what I've argued for on the general thread because the system we have the moment is pointless and just fucking jobs without really achieving much.  If you are going to make no attempt to control the virus internally and are seemingly happy with high rates of infection its hard to justify the existing travel rules.  Anyway, they were just a far too late knee jerk reaction following the mess with India and the start of the year.

There should be some countries considered a red zone of course and they should be countries where variants of concern are at not the situation at the moment where loads of red zone countries have lower numbers than the UK.  Obviously many countries will not want visitors from Plague Island but that's up to them.


----------



## dessiato (Sep 16, 2021)

I am shortly to travel to the plague island. I expect to have problems with the locals when I get there.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I am shortly to travel to the plague island. I expect to have problems with the locals when I get there.



The problems won't be here, the problems will be when you return home and they all know you've passed through the leper colony.  You'll be banished to a cave.


----------



## dessiato (Sep 16, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> The problems won't be here, the problems will be when you return home and they all know you've passed through the leper colony.  You'll be banished to a cave.


I'll have my fishing stick with me so I'll eat. Better get a fire starter, twisted fire starter.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Sep 16, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I'll have my fishing stick with me so I'll eat. Better get a fire starter, twisted fire starter.


Do I recall your have form for accidental self-damage? Pointy sticks and incendiary devices may be a bad idea?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> So it looks like there will be an announcement regarding travel rules tomorrow.  The new rules will come in force in time for half-term.
> 
> Obviously no official news but the reporting is that amber and green will be merged and red zone countries will be reduced to the most at risk.
> 
> ...


The UK and US should be high up the red zone for the rest of the world


----------



## bimble (Sep 17, 2021)

they're changing it, no more amber countries, and going to non red ones simpler and cheaper.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 17, 2021)

That's handy I fly back to the UK for a week on October 5th, can put the savings I make on not having the pre departure test towards the 2nd day PCT test. As I have an EU vaccine passport I don't need a lateral flow test to get back to Portugal either.


----------



## miss direct (Sep 18, 2021)

Delighted that Turkey will no longer be red. For me that means no hotel quarantine or going to a third country for 10 days. Also a relief for many friends here who miss family back in the UK. Good for the British oriented tourist trade too.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 18, 2021)

I'm pissed off South Africa still red, numbers right down with a solid vaccination program. 
What are the deciding factors?


----------



## existentialist (Sep 18, 2021)

nagapie said:


> I'm pissed off South Africa still red, numbers right down with a solid vaccination program.
> What are the deciding factors?


Trade deals?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 18, 2021)

nagapie said:


> I'm pissed off South Africa still red, numbers right down with a solid vaccination program.
> What are the deciding factors?



It's hard to know the true numbers of cases, because not much testing is being done, and whilst they are leading Africa on vaccination, it's still only around 17.5% of the population that are fully vaccinated.

But, IIRC, the main concern is over the beta variant, and checking, it seems South African scientists have detected yet another new variant with multiple mutations*, so 'variants' are probably the reason for caution.

*








						South African scientists monitoring new coronavirus variant
					

Scientists yet to establish whether the new variant is more contagious or able to overcome immunity provided by jabs.




					www.aljazeera.com


----------



## LDC (Sep 18, 2021)

nagapie said:


> I'm pissed off South Africa still red, numbers right down with a solid vaccination program.
> What are the deciding factors?



Solid? Low percentage, and also not much testing so numbers reported are not realistic.


----------



## bimble (Sep 18, 2021)

This survey says that a majority of people questioned think it's wrong that the gov's made it easier to travel.  
I can't help wondering whether people say this motivated by safety concerns or because they kind of resent the holidayers, for non-covid reasons. idk.









						Daily Question  | 17/09/2021  |  YouGov
					

Do you think fully vaccinated travellers returning or arriving in the UK (from a non-red list country) should or should not have to take a pre-departure or post-arrival Covid-19 test?




					yougov.co.uk


----------



## existentialist (Sep 18, 2021)

bimble said:


> This survey says that a majority of people questioned think it's wrong that the gov's made it easier to travel.
> I can't help wondering whether people say this motivated by safety concerns or because they kind of resent the holidayers, for non-covid reasons. idk.
> 
> 
> ...


I think that a great number of people are watching most of the decisions the government are making, and wringing their hands despairingly. I know I am.


----------



## trashpony (Sep 18, 2021)

I think quite a lot of people blame foreign for the virus.


----------



## bimble (Sep 18, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I think that a great number of people are watching most of the decisions the government are making, and wringing their hands despairingly. I know I am.


Sure. But also a quarter of brits apparently said that they'd like to see nightclubs close forever . Lockdowns and covid regulations have revealed some interesting stuff i think around resentment.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 18, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Solid? Low percentage, and also not much testing so numbers reported are not realistic.


Solid for the developing world and the access they've had to vaccines.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 18, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's hard to know the true numbers of cases, because not much testing is being done, and whilst they are leading Africa on vaccination, it's still only around 17.5% of the population that are fully vaccinated.
> 
> But, IIRC, the main concern is over the beta variant, and checking, it seems South African scientists have detected yet another new variant with multiple mutations*, so 'variants' are probably the reason for caution.
> 
> ...


I'm aware Beta was the reason. But we're drowning in Delta!
Not good about a new variant, weird SA seems to be a regular developer of new variants.
I'm not necessarily for opening up but in the context of how the virus is being allowed to rip through schools, finding it hard that I can't see my family.


----------



## 2hats (Sep 18, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Not good about a new variant, weird SA seems to be a regular developer of new variants.


Suggest you look at a table of countries with the highest incidence rates of HIV/AIDS and the answer becomes all too sadly obvious.

(Prolonged infection in the immunocompromised long since established to be a near-ideal incubator for new variants of concern).


----------



## nagapie (Sep 18, 2021)

2hats said:


> Suggest you look at a table of countries with the highest incidence rates of HIV/AIDS and the answer becomes all too sadly obvious.
> 
> (Prolonged infection in the immunocompromised long since established to be a near-ideal incubator for new variants of concern).


I have been surprised at how low the death rates have been considering how much of the population is HIV positive.


----------



## campanula (Sep 18, 2021)

I am struggling to get irate about taking holidays abroad during Covid. At least having any more disapproval than I always feel about air travel or negative effects of tourism in general. My daughter spent a week camping in a field in Suffolk which resulted in all of us having to quarantine and test for days on end. Either we are all still staying totally socially distanced all the time...or we are not. I can't really see much difference whether this is because we are loitering in Morrisons or loafing round a pool in Portugal.
Not that I ever go anywhere further than east Anglia anyway, tbh. 
If anything, I would, feel rather more peeved at holidaying Brits if I lived in some touristy overseas place.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 20, 2021)

I'm hearing that the US is going to open back up to vaccinated UK and EU travelers from November.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 20, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm hearing that the US is going to open back up to vaccinated UK and EU travelers from November.



That's interesting.   I wouldn't blame any country for not wanting to permit visitors from Plague Island but its not like the US have managed to contain the virus.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 20, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> That's interesting.   I wouldn't blame any country for not wanting to permit visitors from Plague Island but its not like the US have managed to contain the virus.



Well it was more ridiculous that for months it was seemingly fine with loads of Latin American countries with far worse covid/vaccination rates coming in, but not the UK/EU


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 20, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm hearing that the US is going to open back up to vaccinated UK and EU travelers from November.


Will be announced post November elections apparently.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2021)

So America is finally opening up.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 20, 2021)

"From November" is so vague though. I'm ready to book a flight now. The prices are already going up but I'm not booking something without a firm date.


----------



## bimble (Sep 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Loads of countries have similar requirements. As LDC says it's about checkability. Someone turning up in Frankfurt with a handwritten note from a doctor in Addis Ababa would have problems too.


What do you think is this still fine (two months later)?
Exactly the same vaccine but if you got it in India or S America you have to quarantine, if you got it in australia you don't.

"Under the new rules, travellers fully vaccinated with Oxford/AstraZeneca, Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna or Janssen shots in the US, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea or an EU country will be considered “fully vaccinated” and exempt from quarantine when they arrive in England from an amber list country. But people who have been fully vaccinated with the same vaccines in Africa or Latin America, as well as other countries including India, will be considered “not fully vaccinated” and forced to quarantine for 10 days on arrival from an amber list country."









						England’s Covid travel rules spark outrage around the world
					

Refusal to recognise vaccines given across Latin America, Africa and south Asia has been denounced as ‘discriminatory’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 23, 2021)

Like to hear what the so-called "wider considerations' are. Doesn't seem to be any justifications for this.


----------



## _Russ_ (Sep 23, 2021)

"wider considerations''? Politics and economics, they took over from Science a long time ago (well from the start really under this fucking shit government)


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 23, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Like to hear what the so-called "wider considerations' are. Doesn't seem to be any justifications for this.



This. Need to know what the reasoning is. Can't find much mention of it elsewhere.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 23, 2021)

It's xenophobia rather than racism, non-EU European nationals also are not accepted, EU nationals with the Sputnik vaccine also are not accepted. Whilst it is clearly discriminatory, perhaps there is something to do with the countries that are accepted being able to offer a more fraud-proof method of verifying your vaccination status? There would be howls of outrage if the UK allowed everyone in who could prove vaccination status with just a bit of card that you can buy off ebay, such as the CDC cards that are acceptable from Americans...


----------



## smmudge (Sep 23, 2021)

Even though the rules have changed here that make it easier to go away without the stress of testing, we were considering it again but there's still so much uncertainty. It's OK now, but what about in a few months, especially going into winter - for our restrictions plus wherever we'd go. Even booking a eurostar to Paris for a couple of days over Xmas was too much for us!

And looking at reviews for hotels here, kind of seems like the standard of customer service is (understandably) dropping everywhere... burnt out and fed up staff, shortages, higher demand...


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 1, 2021)

So anyone up for a laugh as I regale you all with my adventure in trying to have a long weekend away?  My g/f and I love going away, its our great passion and outside of covid times we'll probably go abroad 5 or 6 times a year.  This was our first attempt since all this awful crap started.

We chose Albania as its a country we're familiar with.  Its far enough south to still get decent sunshine in late September and it has a decent coastline plus there was no covid entry requirements and its currently amber listed with the UK traffic light nonsense.

Getting out there was fine.  Heathrow was busy but not crowded and the plane was probably only 1/3 full if that, so plenty of space.  Amusingly BA tried to de-board the plane in small groups so people didn't crowd the aisle, admirable but not much use when you then get crammed in with all the other passengers onto a small bus for the stupidly short journey to the terminal.

Whilst we were out there it was really good, the sun shone all the time and it was a very outdoors holiday.  No masks worn but it didn't matter because even the indoor spaces were only nominally indoors as big bi-fold doors were open all around most buildings we went in.  The only real covid measure we saw was an 11pm curfew which seemed to be well observed and didn't need policing beyond a few police cars driving around gently beeping the horn. The real fun started on the way home.  It was actually really nice to escape thinking about covid the whole time even if we were deceiving ourselves.  It felt like normal and it was wonderful because of that.

Paid for a PCR test at the airport (35 euros a pop).  Whilst I have no doubt it was a proper test the swab taken was the most cursory swab in one nostril and that was it. I don't think anyone was going to test positive and it was nothing but a tick box exercise.  The check-in staff sort of checked the test result and passenger locator form but were pretty disinterested.

Security and passport control were a nightmare.  Huge crowds crammed into a tiny airless space. No masks obviously.  After an hour of that we were resigned to our fate of joining the delta club.  Things didn't get much better on the plane as it was completly full and there was a mass of maskless children swirling around the plane.

Things really got to there worst though when we arrived back at Heathrow.  For reasons known only to them we were corralled into a corridor with passengers from several other flights including passengers who went on to have to declare they needed to red zone quarantine, that was a nice touch.  I don't know why we were made to mass in the corridor because passport control was largely empty.  Still the 10 minutes we spent in the corridor with hundreds of other people certainly gave the virus a much needed boost.

Got home on Sunday.  So, we had done the PCR in Albania on Sunday morning, we then did a LFT on Monday and second one on Tuesday.  Surprisingly all clear.  Did the compulsory day 2 private PCR test, to great amazement also negative.  Wednesday we got the inevitable ping from track and trace because the plane was a covid infested cesspit, queue another negative LFT.   Didn't have to self-isolate because we are double vaccinated but do have to do an NHS PCR test which I've just done this morning and its now with Royal Mail.

So, what have we learned from all this?  It ain't worth it for a couple of nights away.  We went for 3 nights and I reckon that's the bare minimum.  Since Sunday morning I have done in total 6 tests.  Airports and airplanes are in no way "covid safe" whether this in country or abroad.  The measures the UK government have put in place regarding international travel are nothing but piss poor theatre that does nothing to keep the country safe but a few people are making a lot of money from it.  The art of being seen to be doing something whilst not actually doing anything worthwhile at all.

The last thing we learnt from all this is that our vaccines were put through the fire and they seemed to have kept us safe, probably (so far anyway).  🤷‍♂️


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Is this going to cause ElizabethofYork a problem coming back?



Not if she offers to drive a lorry back.


----------



## bimble (Oct 1, 2021)

Ha, India just announced ‘reciprocity’ in response to the Uk’s rules for arrivals from there (basically we will also all be treated as if we aren’t vaccinated, ten days quarantine etc) .








						India imposes reciprocity on UK nationals arriving in India, new regulations from October 4: Sources
					

The new guidelines have been announced in view of the UK govt's restrictions, placing Indians who are vaccinated with Covishield in the category of ‘unvaccinated’.




					www.timesnownews.com


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 1, 2021)

bimble said:


> Ha, India just announced ‘reciprocity’ in response to the Uk’s rules for arrivals from there (basically we will also all be treated as if we aren’t vaccinated, ten days quarantine etc) .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most of these travel restrictions have always been nakedly political.  Just screwing over people who work in the travel industry, destroying livelihoods and doing sweet FA to stop the spread of covid and keep people safe.

Anyway, I thought the Johnson's lot did a reverse ferret on this:  Covishield: UK recognises Covid jab after India outcry


----------



## colacubes (Oct 1, 2021)

Just to counter Teaboy 's experience, I got back from 10 days in Malta a couple of weeks ago. Flights both ways were busy but Easyjet to their credit were absolutely shit hot at mask enforcement on the plane. Chin masks were told to get up over noses pronto and they'd only let you off wearing one if you had a doctors note. Going out from Gatwick was fine - not busy and minimal queues. Airport at Malta was very busy and it looks us about 1.5 hours to get through passport control etc, but that was more to do with the fact we weren't able to go through the EU gate  eyes: Even though it was busy everyone was wearing masks.

In Malta itself everyone wore masks inside and on public transport as standard. Felt very safe and in fairness loads of stuff is outside because of the weather. To fly back we got a private LFT easily and then booked PCR for Day 2 on return. Gatwick on our return was an absolute piece of piss - we were out of the airport within 30 minutes from landing and that included waiting for luggage.

It was much less bad than I had feared. I had assumed we'd get pinged on return but we haven't. All in all a good experience and would recommend Easyjet again on that basis. Tbh I don't think I would want all the hassle for a weekend away but if I was going somewhere for a week I would definitely do it now as things stand.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 1, 2021)

We had a basketball team on our packed easyJet flight back from Portugal, lots of below the nose/chin going on, and some removing masks completely once the plane landed despite nobody getting off for ten minutes. Saw no enforcement.


----------



## colacubes (Oct 1, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> We had a basketball team on our packed easyJet flight back from Portugal, lots of below the nose/chin going on, and some removing masks completely once the plane landed despite nobody getting off for ten minutes. Saw no enforcement.


Interesting. Maybe it’s to do with particular flight crews.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 1, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> Most of these travel restrictions have always been nakedly political.  Just screwing over people who work in the travel industry, destroying livelihoods and doing sweet FA to stop the spread of covid and keep people safe.
> 
> Anyway, I thought the Johnson's lot did a reverse ferret on this:  Covishield: UK recognises Covid jab after India outcry





colacubes said:


> Just to counter Teaboy 's experience, I got back from 10 days in Malta a couple of weeks ago. Flights both ways were busy but Easyjet to their credit were absolutely shit hot at mask enforcement on the plane. Chin masks were told to get up over noses pronto and they'd only let you off wearing one if you had a doctors note. Going out from Gatwick was fine - not busy and minimal queues. Airport at Malta was very busy and it looks us about 1.5 hours to get through passport control etc, but that was more to do with the fact we weren't able to go through the EU gate  eyes: Even though it was busy everyone was wearing masks.
> 
> In Malta itself everyone wore masks inside and on public transport as standard. Felt very safe and in fairness loads of stuff is outside because of the weather. To fly back we got a private LFT easily and then booked PCR for Day 2 on return. Gatwick on our return was an absolute piece of piss - we were out of the airport within 30 minutes from landing and that included waiting for luggage.
> 
> It was much less bad than I had feared. I had assumed we'd get pinged on return but we haven't. All in all a good experience and would recommend Easyjet again on that basis. Tbh I don't think I would want all the hassle for a weekend away but if I was going somewhere for a week I would definitely do it now as things stand.



I thought the requirement to test before returning had been scrapped now. 

Is that not the case?


----------



## colacubes (Oct 1, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> I thought the requirement to test before returning had been scrapped now.
> 
> Is that not the case?


N


Spymaster said:


> I thought the requirement to test before returning had been scrapped now.
> 
> Is that not the case?


That comes in Monday next week.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 8, 2021)

I'm pretty relaxed about the bonfire of the red zone countries as I don't think the list as it was is actually doing anything to keep anyone safe.  I am a bit more bothered with this push to get rid of the day 2 PCR test and replace it with a LFT.

The day 2 PCR at least gave the chance to monitor new variants that are coming into the country.  An LFT in this context is basically no better then no test at all.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 8, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> I'm pretty relaxed about the bonfire of the red zone countries as I don't think the list as it was is actually doing anything to keep anyone safe.  I am a bit more bothered with this push to get rid of the day 2 PCR test and replace it with a LFT.
> 
> The day 2 PCR at least gave the chance to monitor new variants that are coming into the country.  An LFT in this context is basically no better then no test at all.



OTOH there's this issue with people testing positive with LFTs, then negative with a PCR test, they are urgently looking into what's happening with the PCR tests, and what problem there could be there.  🤷‍♂️


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 8, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> OTOH there's this issue with people testing positive with LFTs, then negative with a PCR test, they are urgently looking into what's happening with the PCR tests, and what problem there could be there.  🤷‍♂️



None of that really matters now that self-isolating is a matter of personal choice.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 9, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> None of that really matters now that self-isolating is a matter of personal choice.


It’s not, if you’re positive you’re still legally required to isolate, I was told this by track and trace last week.  Contacts can choose not to isolate if they’re double vaxxed or recovered cases.


----------



## bimble (Oct 12, 2021)

Well over an hour stood in a very dense crowd at bloody luton airport last night, not even a normal queue one of those maze systems where you are all crammed into as small a space as possible, no mask enforcement no separate lanes for anyone nothing (and absolutely zero checks on anything, just shortage of border staff thats all that caused the delay) .
Good thing i have to take a proper covid test tomorrow, just hope day 2 is actually the right amount of time for any airport-related infection to show up.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 12, 2021)

Flew from Faro needed to show locator ref, vaccine cert  but no test required. Flew into Manchester, quite busy but most people masked up and tbf the attendant near me did remind people to put the mask on. Got my Day 2 test at the airport on arrival. Got contacted by test and trace a day after arriving presume , spoke to them said double vaccinated. Went to hospital appointment next day who took a temp check as I'd arrived from an amber country , it was fine. Got my PCT test result next day fine. Then came down with a heavy headcold and slight temp.  Got  an antigen test which was fine. Got rang up again by test and trace repeated that I was double vaxxed, had had two negative tests ( quite nice actually as she asked me how I was any symptoms etc). Anyway worse of the cold over by Sunday night  and flew back Monday night after a few beers. Had to show vaccine passport and was asked if Id filled in a locator but no test required. No checks at Faro. Read in the Manchester Evening News late last night that these heavy head colds might be covid but I've got no temp, no cough now just a bit bunged up. So  hopefully that's it.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 12, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> It’s not, if you’re positive you’re still legally required to isolate, I was told this by track and trace last week.  Contacts can choose not to isolate if they’re double vaxxed or recovered cases.



OK but who enforces it?  Do the police actually have any powers to enforce it?  I thought all powers got swept away with teh great bonfire of regulations we had over the summer?


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 13, 2021)

> OK but who enforces it?



Nobody, but you knew that


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Oct 13, 2021)

_Russ_ said:


> Nobody, but you knew that


"You can trust the great British public to do the right thing with a stiff upper lip" *Bozo the clown


----------



## kebabking (Oct 13, 2021)

https://t.co/NQL2eOeJWp 

I mean, it's an idea...

(It's actually stunningly beautiful, but the airline staff were rude, unhelpful, and downright ugly, and the hotel wasn't quite up to scratch...)


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 13, 2021)

kebabking said:


> https://t.co/NQL2eOeJWp
> 
> I mean, it's an idea...
> 
> (It's actually stunningly beautiful, but the airline staff were rude, unhelpful, and downright ugly, and the hotel wasn't quite up to scratch...)





And yet STILL preferable to Ryanair... Ryanair bans customers who received refunds via credit card during pandemic unless they settle ‘outstanding debt’


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 13, 2021)

Oh and the NHS app went down today for three hours, anyone who hadn't printed a copy of their vaccine status or saved it to their Apple wallet if they had an iPhone was denied boarding and lost all their money. #worldbeating


----------



## LDC (Oct 13, 2021)

Am tentatively making plans to go to the south of France next March, it'll be my first trip abroad since this all started.... I'll drive or get the train though which I imagine is less covid faff than flying.


----------



## Carvaged (Oct 13, 2021)

I've never had a holiday and think they should be banned forthwith. If I must be miserable, so should everyone else.

And no, there's nothing wrong with projection and those who say otherwise should be banned forthwith.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 13, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> And yet STILL preferable to Ryanair... Ryanair bans customers who received refunds via credit card during pandemic unless they settle ‘outstanding debt’


What the fuck?? seriously. The law states that if you can't get a refund off the company then you are entitled to claim against the credit card company. Where the fuck does O'Leary get to think he can override the law of the land?
I hope someone sues his vile grubby arse over this.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 13, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> What the fuck?? seriously. The law states that if you can't get a refund off the company then you are entitled to claim against the credit card company. Where the fuck does O'Leary get to think he can override the law of the land?
> I hope someone sues his vile grubby arse over this.




It is tantamount to theft.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Oct 13, 2021)

I really want to drive to see my mum at christmas but the cost of taking 2 dogs over post-brexit makes it a costly affair so might have to go on my own.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 14, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> What the fuck?? seriously. The law states that if you can't get a refund off the company then you are entitled to claim against the credit card company. Where the fuck does O'Leary get to think he can override the law of the land?
> I hope someone sues his vile grubby arse over this.


Right, but I don’t think the company you successfully and rightly got your money back from are legally obliged to then trade with you again, are they?


----------



## miss direct (Oct 14, 2021)

I'm returning to the UK next week


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## strung out (Oct 14, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Right, but I don’t think the company you successfully and rightly got your money back from are legally obliged to then trade with you again, are they?


Bit shit that they took bookings from these people and then refused them boarding at the gate though.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 14, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Right, but I don’t think the company you successfully and rightly got your money back from are legally obliged to then trade with you again, are they?




They took money for new flights, so traded but then refused to allow people on the flights, so weren’t trading but tricking people in handing over money they didn’t owe. Plus exposing people to out of pocket expenses for hotels, car hire, parking, travel to the airport and so on.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They took money for new flights, so traded but then refused to allow people on the flights, so weren’t trading but tricking people in handing over money they didn’t owe.


"Extorting" feels somehow like it fits the bill...


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## kabbes (Oct 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They took money for new flights, so traded but then refused to allow people on the flights, so weren’t trading but tricking people in handing over money they didn’t owe. Plus exposing people to out of pocket expenses for hotels, car hire, parking, travel to the airport and so on.


Ah, I’d missed that. That’s definitely not on


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 14, 2021)

PCR Tests for travel scrapped for fully vaccinated people - replaced with LFT - from the 24th, just in time for half term 



One consequence of this encouragement of travel may be increased covid rates in the rest of Europe - which may make the UKs appalling record not seem quite as bad.


----------



## MBV (Oct 15, 2021)

Odd time to announce it.


----------



## miss direct (Oct 15, 2021)

Cunts. I fly back a few days before that.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 15, 2021)

I honestly think the time for travel restrictions has passed.  We needed them at the start of all this and needed them to stay in place till at least the vaccine rollout was well advanced.  Instead they were introduced too late in a knee jerk reaction to the embarrassment caused by the Delta surge flown in from India.

I don't believe the two day pcr test was really doing anything beyond being a useful data collection exercise.  For that reason alone I think they should have kept it but I can see why it has been changed.


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 15, 2021)

Looks like 8th November is the date to get into the US from









						U.S. to lift restrictions Nov 8 for vaccinated foreign travelers
					

The White House on Friday will lift COVID-19 travel restrictions for fully vaccinated international visitors starting Nov. 8, ending historic restrictions that had barred much of the world from entering the United States for as long as 21 months.




					www.reuters.com


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## miss direct (Oct 15, 2021)

Booked my day 2 PCR test. I have the code I need for my PLF form but now found out the company I booked is no longer government approved - can the airline deny me boarding? Some mumbling on Facebook about this but nothing certain.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 15, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Booked my day 2 PCR test. I have the code I need for my PLF form but now found out the company I booked is no longer government approved - can the airline deny me boarding? Some mumbling on Facebook about this but nothing certain.


Don’t think so . They normally just ask to see proof of PLF , they don’t read the detail. Only a handful of these PLF forms are sampled by test and trace ( mainly outsourced companies ) anyway . 
I know people who have simply used a code that a friend has given them ( who have used it on a previous trip) and nothing has happened. 
I comply cos I think it’s the right thing to do .


----------



## miss direct (Oct 15, 2021)

I dont suppose I'd be too bothered to be denied  boarding. Back in two weeks anyway!


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## bimble (Oct 15, 2021)

oi Bahnhof Strasse you spend time reading all this stuff can you advise?
My bestest friend was booked on a flight to fly home to UK tomorrow from Spain (she just did the camino thing for weeks). She just texted saying she's done a lateral flow just now and tested positive so obvs can't fly tomorrow. Not feeling well and doesn't know what to do, talking about getting a key-fob room somewhere & buying stash of food but doesn't have any idea what she's meant to do and for how long. Do you know / know where to look for this info - if you are positive & want to go home from spain basically.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 15, 2021)

bimble said:


> oi Bahnhof Strasse you spend time reading all this stuff can you advise?
> My bestest friend was booked on a flight to fly home to UK tomorrow from Spain (she just did the camino thing for weeks). She just texted saying she's done a lateral flow just now and tested positive so obvs can't fly tomorrow. Not feeling well and doesn't know what to do, talking about getting a key-fob room somewhere & buying stash of food but doesn't have any idea what she's meant to do and for how long. Do you know / know where to look for this info - if you are positive & want to go home from spain basically.




She is supposed to quarantine in Spain for at least 10 days and only after that leave when she gets a negative test.

So yeah, get a room and food and stay put.

On the other hand, you don’t need any tests before travelling to the U.K., so even knowing she’s positive there is nothing to stop her travelling except her conscience.


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## bimble (Oct 15, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> She is supposed to quarantine in Spain for at least 10 days and only after that leave when she gets a negative test.
> 
> So yeah, get a room and food and stay put.
> 
> On the other hand, you don’t need any tests before travelling to the U.K., so even knowing she’s positive there is nothing to stop her travelling except he conscience.


This bloody virus. It is such a moral quagmire. thank you will pass this on.


----------



## bimble (Oct 15, 2021)

Thanks Bahnhof Strasse she's grateful to know the ten day thing, is going to hole up with paracetamol for tonight and then look into getting a place with own bathroom tomorrow, poor sod.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 15, 2021)

Hope she gets well soon.


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## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

She's told the reception in the hostel she's in (that she has tested positive) and now she has to stay in her room and pee in the sink, which involves climbing on a chair. There's some sort of automatic travel insurance there, for covid positive tourists from Uk, which seems like it covers your accomodation and heath care if you catch covid whilst there.


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## prunus (Oct 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> She's told the reception in the hostel she's in (that she has tested positive) and now she has to stay in her room and pee in the sink, which involves climbing on a chair. There's some sort of automatic travel insurance there, for covid positive tourists from Uk, which seems like it covers your accomodation and heath care if you catch covid whilst there.



I have to ask - where is she supposed to defecate?


----------



## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

prunus said:


> I have to ask - where is she supposed to defecate?


exactly! we are just hoping they move her to somewhere better to quarantine in before that.


----------



## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

bloody hell, the hostel called an actual ambulance for my friend (who just has slight flu symptoms) and now she's sat in a Spanish hospital awaiting a pcr test, she's no idea what all this is going to cost her. Seems a bit crazy, would understand if people chose to not report and just hole up in peace.


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## The39thStep (Oct 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> bloody hell, the hostel called an actual ambulance for my friend (who just has slight flu symptoms) and now she's sat in a Spanish hospital awaiting a pcr test, she's no idea what all this is going to cost her. Seems a bit crazy, would understand if people chose to not report and just hole up in peace.


If shes got a GHIC , the new version of EHIC, nowt. Private PCR tests are anything from 50-100 euros here


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## _Russ_ (Oct 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> bloody hell, the hostel called an actual ambulance for my friend (who just has slight flu symptoms) and now she's sat in a Spanish hospital awaiting a pcr test, she's no idea what all this is going to cost her. Seems a bit crazy, would understand if people chose to not report and just hole up in peace.


I hope she is OK.
Wow they called an ambulance to take here for a test and it actually came (sounds like quite quickly too), contrast that to the UK situation and it makes me feel like Im in a third world country


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## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> If shes got a GHIC , the new version of EHIC, nowt. Private PCR tests are anything from 50-100 euros here


if you have to apply for that then she's not got it, but there is automaitic insurance of some sort which she's in conact with now - this, but looks like youre liable up to 500 euros still.


tbh i hadn't thought about this, the what do you do if you test positive whilst away problem, just because uk numbers are so much worse.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 16, 2021)

Always worth getting EHIC/GHIC. Some bank accounts have tourist cover as well.Hope it works out for her


----------



## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

seems totally mad that they brought her, covid positive with symptoms but not at all seriously ill, into a hospital building. She's in good spirits she'll be fine.


----------



## Riklet (Oct 16, 2021)

Did she get travel insurance before going? Or has she got any kind of cover? If not then yeah she might have to pay some minor costs.

Sounds like she just needs to splash out on a nice apartment for 2 weeks and take it easy. Fuck staying in a hotel or a hostel.

Tbh they probably called the ambulance to get rid of her while infectious. The case numbers in Spain are like 14 times lower than the UK... maybe people are less used to positive cases everywhere like here.


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## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

no, she's saying she's got no insurance, the wally. if i'd known i'd have bullied her into getting some. I dont think she gets to choose now, where to stay, now that the authorities are involved they tell her where to quarantine.


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## Riklet (Oct 16, 2021)

Uff an international hiking trip during a pandemic with no insurance. What a wally. She's definitely going to take a financial hit.

I doubt she could just fly back to the UK now as she will have to abide by Spanish national and regional rules. Hopefully they'll help her get somewhere to rest and recover. No point in booking a new flight for the moment.


----------



## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

Yep, absolutely daft, to go walk 500 miles across another country , right now, with no insurance.


----------



## Riklet (Oct 16, 2021)

In holiday news - I've booked a trip to Madeira in January for a month btw. I'm hoping to be well enough to travel then (I am back driving and doing more now so fingers crossed) but will obvs do tests before during and after and be careful anyway. And make sure I have bloody insurance now, Jeez! 

I have a friend who lives there with a spare room who I can stay with and a couple of grand in Euros from working in Spain still. And Madeira is pretty low risk. So I'm really looking forward to it!! I think the good weather will do me a world of good.


----------



## MBV (Oct 16, 2021)

I'm going to Italy soon and booking travel insurance was one of the first things I did after sorting flights etc/


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 16, 2021)

Riklet said:


> In holiday news - I've booked a trip to Madeira in January for a month btw. I'm hoping to be well enough to travel then (I am back driving and doing more now so fingers crossed) but will obvs do tests before during and after and be careful anyway. And make sure I have bloody insurance now, Jeez!
> 
> I have a friend who lives there with a spare room who I can stay with and a couple of grand in Euros from working in Spain still. And Madeira is pretty low risk. So I'm really looking forward to it!! I think the good weather will do me a world of good.


Have a good time , a bit of sunshine always helps . Never been but hope to go next year with my Portuguese neighbours .


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## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

Don’t catch covid in spain. She’s sat in the hospital still, hoping that someone will tell her a place she can quarantine for ten days which is not the hospital. She’s in a ward with non covid people.


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## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

If my friend wasn't who she is i'd be really worried now. She just sent these pictures of where she will be quarantined for ten days, some kind of empty auberge. Not a soul there apart from her, some guy who said he will bring food tomorrow, a kitchen but no cups no cutlery nothing, strip lights or darkness. 
 

She will be ok but no good deed goes unpunished does it, she only did the test voluntarily to reassure self before flying home today that she was negative and now this, free meditation retreat / solitary confinement in spooky institutional building.


----------



## nagapie (Oct 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> If my friend wasn't who she is i'd be really worried now. She just sent these pictures of where she will be quarantined for ten days, some kind of empty auberge. Not a soul there apart from her, some guy who said he will bring food tomorrow, a kitchen but no cups no cutlery nothing, strip lights or darkness.
> View attachment 293000 View attachment 293001
> 
> She will be ok but no good deed goes unpunished does it, she only did the test voluntarily to reassure self before flying home today that she was negative and now this, free meditation retreat / solitary confinement in spooky institutional building.


Better than pooing in a sink I guess.


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## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Better than pooing in a sink I guess.


not sure. i think i'd take pooing in sink over the blood splat footprints.


----------



## nagapie (Oct 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> not sure. i think i'd take pooing in sink over the blood splat footprints.


Oooh, I didn't realise that was blood. Damn, rock and hard place.


----------



## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

i'm not going anywhere for a while, risk of being stuck in solitary like that is a thing i'd not considered.


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## Spymaster (Oct 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> If my friend wasn't who she is i'd be really worried now. She just sent these pictures of where she will be quarantined for ten days, some kind of empty auberge. Not a soul there apart from her, some guy who said he will bring food tomorrow, a kitchen but no cups no cutlery nothing, strip lights or darkness.
> View attachment 293000 View attachment 293001
> 
> She will be ok but no good deed goes unpunished does it, she only did the test voluntarily to reassure self before flying home today that she was negative and now this, free meditation retreat / solitary confinement in spooky institutional building.



It's not a prison, is it? What's stopping her from walking out and checking into a hotel?


----------



## Supine (Oct 16, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Oooh, I didn't realise that was blood. Damn, rock and hard place.



It’s not blood!


----------



## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> It's not a prison, is it? What's stopping her from walking out and checking into a hotel?


this is now government mandated quarantine, this is the place all covid positive tourists are sent just she's the only one at the moment. Massive fine for breaking quarantine.
On the plus side, its free, as part of their keeping tourists coming i guess.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 16, 2021)

What is that on the floor?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> tbh i hadn't thought about this, the what do you do if you test positive whilst away problem, just because uk numbers are so much worse.




UK numbers are the highest, but the UK is testing massively more than elsewhere. I expect Burkina Faso's numbers are quite low for the same reason Germany's are.  

But this highlights the big risk with travel, if you test positive whilst away. If fully vaccinated you don't need a test to enter the UK (or most European countries), but if you have a positive test of course you must not travel, so do you bin the positive test?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 16, 2021)

_Russ_ said:


> What is that on the floor?



Looks like stickers, certainly not real blood.


----------



## bimble (Oct 16, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> UK numbers are the highest, but the UK is testing massively more than elsewhere. I expect Burkina Faso's numbers are quite low for the same reason Germany's are.
> 
> But this highlights the big risk with travel, if you test positive whilst away. If fully vaccinated you don't need a test to enter the UK (or most European countries), but if you have a positive test of course you must not travel, so do you bin the positive test?


Yeah. She’s been saying she wishes she hadn’t chosen to do the test or hadn’t told anyone the result & just laid low, but she’s not an arsehole so she did. As you say, this is the real risk with travel, and I’d not even thought about it. 

Our hospitalised covid patients numbers are many times higher than Germany Italy spain etc, that’s not testing that’s just covid.


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> UK numbers are the highest, but the UK is testing massively more than elsewhere. I expect Burkina Faso's numbers are quite low for the same reason Germany's are.


Germany is not doing as many tests as the UK but we can check other data to get a sense of whether part of the reason for that is because their outbreak isnt as large as ours. Amount of testing in the UK has varied compared to EU countries, but the data from each country still tends to give a real indication of the state of each countries outbreak too. 

For example their weekly hospital admission numbers are much lower than the UKs. 



Via Coronavirus (COVID-19) Hospitalizations - Statistics and Research

Although when I look at what the recent number of covid patients in intensive are using the same site, the numbers for Germanys are higher than the UKs. So it is sensible to peer behind the data and figure out what the story might be with that, eg they have a different standard of care/criteria for admission to intensive care/different data methodology for what counts as a intensive care covid case (eg wording of UKs figures is actually 'number of patients in mechanical ventilation beds').


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 16, 2021)

> (eg wording of UKs figures is actually 'number of patients in mechanical ventilation beds').



Huh?, so if you're in ICU on O2 due Covid you don't count as being in  intensive care  because we dont actually  have an *in intensive care* list, we only have a *in hospital *and *on mechanical ventilation*' list?


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 16, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Looks like stickers, certainly not real blood.


Thats what I thought, they are all exactly the same (though handed left right), but why the feck would you put stickers that look a poor attempt at bloody footprints on the floor?...........to direct Zombies?...its bizarre

Its not a fucking morgue is it?


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2021)

_Russ_ said:


> Huh?, so if you're in ICU on O2 due Covid you don't count as being in  intensive care  because we dont actually  have an *in intensive care* list, we only have a *in hospital *and *on mechanical ventilation*' list?


All I can really say is that the numbers on the daily dasboard are described as number of patients in mechanical ventilation beds. I suppose in theory some of those patients could be in those beds without actually being on full mechanical ventilation, but I dont have the means to explore that possibility further.

Other data that receives much less attention is available via certain other sources. For example the Intensive care nation audit and research center has some very detailed reports with all manner of figures in them. 





__





						ICNARC – Reports
					

ICNARC - Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre. Quality data for quality care.




					www.icnarc.org


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2021)

i like to think i'm quite a brave sort of person but friend just said that breakfast was delivered in a plastic bag hung on the wall outside where she was instructed to go retrieve it after whoever brought it had left, and then, then, it contained bread roll & one small sachet of bloody DECAF instant coffee. that would be it for me i'd probably cry when i saw it was decaf. 
I'm not going anywhere without learning first what the consequences might be of testing positive whilst there.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 17, 2021)

bimble said:


> i like to think i'm quite a brave sort of person but friend just said that breakfast was delivered in a plastic bag hung on the wall outside where she was instructed to go retrieve it after whoever brought it had left, and then, then, it contained bread roll & one small sachet of bloody DECAF instant coffee. that would be it for me i'd probably cry when i saw it was decaf.
> I'm not going anywhere without learning first what the consequences might be of testing positive whilst there.


I would have thought that, in a country like Spain, giving someone decaf coffee would have been edging close to being a human rights issue


----------



## Sue (Oct 19, 2021)

bimble said:


> She will be ok but no good deed goes unpunished does it, she only did the test voluntarily to reassure self before flying home today that she was negative and now this, free meditation retreat / solitary confinement in spooky institutional building.


Not a good deed though eh? The bare minimum really.


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2021)

Sue said:


> Not a good deed though eh? The bare minimum really.


i dont know. the fact that the facility is totally empty apart from her suggests its not very common to voluntarily do a test and then voluntarily report the result, instead of just catching your flight home with no test at all as per the rules.


----------



## klang (Oct 19, 2021)

bimble said:


> i think i'd take pooing in sink over the blood splat footprints.


are they they foot prints of the damned ones who crawl out of the empty beds at midnight?


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2021)

she is cracking jokes about how it's a good thing she can't smell her own self or taste the food, honestly she's my hero right now.


----------



## 2hats (Oct 20, 2021)

The Moroccans disapprove this autumn.
Morocco bans British visitors due to soaring Covid rates


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2021)

2hats said:


> The Moroccans disapprove this autumn.
> Morocco bans British visitors due to soaring Covid rates




Misleading headline. 

Morocco bans direct flights from UK, Germany & Netherlands. Morocco still accepting visitors from UK, Germany & Holland so long as they connect via Paris, Madrid, Zurich etc.

Yet again science is overlooked in favour of knee-jerking.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2021)

I'm supposed to be going to Germany next week. Starting to fret already that there'll be some sort of ban put in place just before I leave.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 20, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Morocco bans direct flights from UK, Germany & Netherlands. Morocco still accepting visitors from UK, Germany & Holland so long as they connect via Paris, Madrid, Zurich etc.


Why is that?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Why is that?




Why is what? Morocco suspending direct flights from UK, Germany & Holland as the Covid rates in each country is so high. Why they are still allowing people in from these countries so long as they've coughed their Covid over France or Spain first is a mystery though.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2021)

It's a right bastard as 1/2 term starts this weekend and Morocco is a very popular spot in October, most flights were pretty much sold out and now all those holidays are lost.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 20, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Why is what? Morocco suspending direct flights from UK, Germany & Holland as the Covid rates in each country is so high. Why they are still allowing people in from these countries so long as they've coughed their Covid over France or Spain first is a mystery though.


That was my thinking. Wondered if France or Spain had stricter travel restrictions/regulations  

Guessing wealthy travellers can have a night in Paris or Milan before spreading over to Morocco.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Guessing wealthy travellers can have a night in Paris or Milan before spreading over to Morocco.




You don't even need a night anyway, the new rules state specifically that you may connect from the UK, Germany or Holland, so something like these are fine...


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 20, 2021)

It does seem an odd decision.  Ordinarily the restrictions say people who have been in or travelled through xxxx countries in the last 10 days are banned.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 20, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> It does seem an odd decision.  Ordinarily the restrictions say people who have been in or travelled through xxxx countries in the last 10 days are banned.


I guess the issue here is the growing international perception is that the UK is "xxxx country" now.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Oct 23, 2021)

Have waited to go away but now made it to Crete. A load of stress checking all the rules but remarkably easy & relaxed, not even an lft on arrival. It wasn’t busy either even though it’s half term. The picture is changing so perhaps this is just temporary window.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Oct 28, 2021)

Booked a trip to visit my mum in December, I didn't realise you still need to get a 2nd day test.
Who are the good, the bad and the ugly in paid for test suppliers then?


----------



## Saffy (Oct 28, 2021)

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread to ask on or not but does anyone know what the deal is with coming into the UK from another country? 

My sister hasn't been back to the UK for 2 years and has had the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. She's got the paperwork to say she's had it but is there anything else which might cause a problem?


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Oct 28, 2021)

Saffy said:


> I'm not sure if this is the correct thread to ask on or not but does anyone know what the deal is with coming into the UK from another country?
> 
> My sister hasn't been back to the UK for 2 years and has had the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. She's got the paperwork to say she's had it but is there anything else which might cause a problem?


As long as it is not from a red list country only a paid for day 2 covid test the reference of which needs to go on the passenger location form. Current guidelines are here.


----------



## Saffy (Oct 28, 2021)

Ahh that's what I was searching for. Thank you.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Oct 28, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> Booked a trip to visit my mum in December, I didn't realise you still need to get a 2nd day test.
> Who are the good, the bad and the ugly in paid for test suppliers then?


Cheapest is Chromonics with Jet 2 code 'holiday8' COVID-19 Testing

£17


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 28, 2021)

Does anyone actually check people coming into the UK any more?, everyone I know who went away last summer (ok only 3 people ) said they werent checked at this end coming back
I realise its not a risk anyone should take in any case, just wondering if we are still as crap at keeping things controlled as we were earlier in pandemic as in most ways we seem to be even crap-er


----------



## [62] (Oct 28, 2021)

_Russ_ said:


> Does anyone actually check people coming into the UK any more?, everyone I know who went away last summer (ok only 3 people ) said they werent checked at this end coming back
> I realise its not a risk anyone should take in any case, just wondering if we are still as crap at keeping things controlled as we were earlier in pandemic as in most ways we seem to be even crap-er



I came back through Heathrow just over two weeks ago. Had completed the passenger locator form and had my vaccine certificate to hand, but they didn't ask to see them. They didn't seem to be checking other people's either, but I wouldn't swear on that.


----------



## Winot (Oct 28, 2021)

We had a few days in Lille. Passenger locator forms weren't checked on re-entry (they saw that Mrs W had one but didn't read it; they didn't bother even looking at mine).

Beginning to wonder if all the hoops are just to put people off travelling (not a bad idea).


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Why is what? Morocco suspending direct flights from UK, Germany & Holland as the Covid rates in each country is so high. Why they are still allowing people in from these countries so long as they've coughed their Covid over France or Spain first is a mystery though.


It’ll just be an easy way of limiting people coming from those countries, without the bureaucracy and checking involved in determining who has been where. Keep it simple I guess. Won’t catch everyone but will reduce the numbers coming in.


----------



## MBV (Oct 30, 2021)

Back from a week in Italy. All very straight forward with my NHS vaccine certificate allowing me to get into restaurants.

ETA: PLFs not checked on re entry into the UK.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 30, 2021)

> not checked on re entry into the UK.



Welcome back to Plague Island


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Oct 31, 2021)

Winot said:


> We had a few days in Lille. Passenger locator forms weren't checked on re-entry (they saw that Mrs W had one but didn't read it; they didn't bother even looking at mine).
> 
> Beginning to wonder if all the hoops are just to put people off travelling (not a bad idea).


If you’re flying the authorities are putting the burden onto the airlines so if you’ve actually arrived then they’re assuming you’re ok I suspect.


----------



## Winot (Oct 31, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> If you’re flying the authorities are putting the burden onto the airlines so if you’ve actually arrived then they’re assuming you’re ok I suspect.


This was via Eurostar.


----------



## smmudge (Nov 11, 2021)

We've booked for next April, still a bit risky but I thought maybe any winter surge would be better by then and can't see there being any more restrictions than there are now?

Anyway does anyone know of any good insurance for the various things that could go wrong before and during? Holiday is atol protected, hotel is fully refundable up to 3 days before. Who knows what easyjet T&Cs will be then.


----------



## Elpenor (Nov 11, 2021)

I’ve heard Battleface are fairly comprehensive on covid stuff but this is one instance where you really should read all of the small print I think


----------



## smmudge (Nov 11, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> I’ve heard Battleface are fairly comprehensive on covid stuff but this is one instance where you really should read all of the small print I think



That's good to know thanks, they look alright to me.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 12, 2021)

MBV said:


> Back from a week in Italy. All very straight forward with my NHS vaccine certificate allowing me to get into restaurants.
> 
> ETA: PLFs not checked on re entry into the UK.





_Russ_ said:


> Welcome back to Plague Island




 Checked before you board your plane/train.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 12, 2021)

smmudge said:


> We've booked for next April, still a bit risky but I thought maybe any winter surge would be better by then and can't see there being any more restrictions than there are now?
> 
> Anyway does anyone know of any good insurance for the various things that could go wrong before and during? Holiday is atol protected, hotel is fully refundable up to 3 days before. Who knows what easyjet T&Cs will be then.




Post Office.

But you’ll be fine and you and your missus are clued up enough to deal with this crap. Where are you headed?


----------



## smmudge (Nov 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Post Office.
> 
> But you’ll be fine and you and your missus are clued up enough to deal with this crap. Where are you headed?



Thanks we're off to Rhodes! Can't wait to look around lots of ancient ruins heh


----------



## miss direct (Nov 21, 2021)

Cheapest day 2 test - simplytestme : £12
Sharing in case anyone else needs it.


----------



## klang (Nov 30, 2021)

so, are kids / toddlers / babies required to take a PCR when entering the UK?


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 30, 2021)

klang said:


> so, are kids / toddlers / babies required to take a PCR when entering the UK?


No. Over 18s.


----------



## LDC (Nov 30, 2021)

Just heard from a friend in NZ who won a place in their MIQ (hotel quarantine for when you fly back in to NZ) that you apply for and I think is randomly allocated. Means she can book a flight back here to see elderly parents. Sounds a very strict procedure, you can't book a flight until you have your MIQ place. I was telling her here you just get a test when you arrive, now obviously a PCR not LFT. She's not flying for a month, might even change by then, but at least the flight and MIQ costs are refundable.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> No. Over 18s.



I heard is was over 5s, oh, here you go -



> Yes, children aged 5-17 need to take a day 2 PCR test when arriving into the UK - regardless of whether or not they are vaccinated.
> 
> Children aged 17 and under do not need to quarantine, however.











						UK travel restrictions: Day 2 and pre-departure test rules explained
					

All UK arrivals have to show a negative COVID-19 test on arrival and do a PCR test on or before day 2.




					www.euronews.com


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 30, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> I heard is was over 5s, oh, here you go -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I stand corrected.

I was looking at this Omicron: What are the new Covid rules for travelling to the UK?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> I stand corrected.
> 
> I was looking at this Omicron: What are the new Covid rules for travelling to the UK?



Another change. I'm not 'moaning' (see barbs passim!), but now need to decide whether our Xmas trip should go ahead. We test all the time to make sure visits to my folks aren't putting them in danger, but had planned a trip that returns with enough time to test before the kids go back to school. The change to 'isolate until negative result returned' mean they'll miss the Thurday and Friday, which we could live with. Now it's test to return, that's another whole ballgame.

It's almost like living in uncertain times!


----------



## High Voltage (Dec 6, 2021)

Ah well now with Omicron around, that's a proper holiday "away" away kicked down the road 'til 2023 at the earliest now I s'pose / as far as i'm concerned

Shame, getting away would've been nice


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

High Voltage said:


> Ah well now with Omicron around, that's a proper holiday "away" away kicked down the road 'til 2023 at the earliest now I s'pose / as far as i'm concerned



I think that is the danger High Voltage


----------



## High Voltage (Dec 6, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> I think that is the danger High Voltage



<shrug>For the best really


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

High Voltage said:


> <shrug>For the best really



I feel the need to re-iterate, it really is a Danger, Danger High Voltage


----------



## Artaxerxes (Dec 6, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Just heard from a friend in NZ who won a place in their MIQ (hotel quarantine for when you fly back in to NZ) that you apply for and I think is randomly allocated. Means she can book a flight back here to see elderly parents. Sounds a very strict procedure, you can't book a flight until you have your MIQ place. I was telling her here you just get a test when you arrive, now obviously a PCR not LFT. She's not flying for a month, might even change by then, but at least the flight and MIQ costs are refundable.



Make sure she stocks up on pot noodle and books. I’ve seen more hospitable prisons than some of these hotels are offering.

Grim 5 minute walk around a multi storey car park for exercise


----------



## LDC (Dec 6, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> Make sure she stocks up on pot noodle and books. I’ve seen more hospitable prisons than some of these hotels are offering.
> 
> Grim 5 minute walk around a multi storey car park for exercise



In NZ Artaxerxes? That's where she'll do her quarantine, not the UK.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 6, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Now it's test to return, that's another whole ballgame.



Yeah, it's a bit of a game changer. I've got a trip coming up and now looking at possibly cancelling. I've just checked with my travel insurance providers and they DO cover additional hotel or overseas quarantine costs if you get stuck abroad due to testing positive and being unable to fly home. Not sure if I fancy potentially being stuck in a hotel overseas for xmas though.


----------



## Thora (Dec 6, 2021)

My boss (extremely wealthy) has managed to go on holiday to Corfu, Dubai and St Lucia this year without any problems


----------



## Artaxerxes (Dec 6, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> In NZ Artaxerxes? That's where she'll do her quarantine, not the UK.



Yes


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Yeah, it's a bit of a game changer. I've got a trip coming up and now looking at possibly cancelling. I've just checked with my travel insurance providers and they DO cover additional hotel or overseas quarantine costs if you get stuck abroad due to testing positive and being unable to fly home. Not sure if I fancy potentially being stuck in a hotel overseas for xmas though.



I know people that are still going, and planning on taking NHS LFTs to check before doing the paid LFT to return and then making sure the paid one, which is unsupervised, is done by someone already tested negative. It's such a shitshow, I can't really blame them.

I've tried to get through to out insurers all morning, no joy as yet and 'we'll answer within 21 days' to emails. We're meant to leave in 15 days.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 6, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> I know people that are still going, and planning on taking NHS LFTs to check before doing the paid LFT to return and then making sure the paid one, which is unsupervised, is done by someone already tested negative. It's such a shitshow, I can't really blame them.


I try very hard not to sit in judgement on people's choices and decisions around Covid, but that's just fraudulent. If you're going to take the risk of going on holiday, TAKE THE FUCKING RISK. Don't try and game the system, or cheat it. We all know it's been set up in a venal corrupt way, but that is no reason to follow the example of our sleazy leaders.

Definitely fileable under "cunt's trick", in my book.


----------



## Cloo (Dec 6, 2021)

I'm glad we didn't try booking for Slovakia over Christmas - even pre-Omicron news they shut everything down a fortnight ago. 

I have a feeling next summer is going to be a total farrago as different countries will have different jab routines and people will find themselves unable to travel because the requirement in their home country is lower than in the destination, especially when it comes to 12-18 age group where this varies a lot. Just saying this for the record now and knowing that it won't occur to anyone in a position of authority to address this before loads of people find they can't go to their destination book holidays in January and then find they can't meet entry requirements in summer.


----------



## kebabking (Dec 6, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I try very hard not to sit in judgement on people's choices and decisions around Covid, but that's just fraudulent. If you're going to take the risk of going on holiday, TAKE THE FUCKING RISK. Don't try and game the system, or cheat it. We all know it's been set up in a venal corrupt way, but that is no reason to follow the example of our sleazy leaders.
> 
> Definitely fileable under "cunt's trick", in my book.



yup, this is the kind of stuff that takes int travel from 'its a fucking stupid idea, but they're your risks', to just 'no', or 'enjoy paying £3k to sit in a travelodge for 14 days with your kids climbing the walls' territory. fuck 'em.


----------



## Cloo (Dec 6, 2021)

NB Harry Smiles - those people's plans on unsupervised LFTs won't work. They aren't supervised in person but are set up so you can't get around them that way. You literally have to send video of yourself/person in question doing the test in a very specific way so you can't just substitute another one. Believe me, I know because oldest had to do one on return from Italy in half term and it was such a massive faff that we needed the two of us as well as eldest to do it. Anyway, don't tell them that, let them have the fun of finding out.


----------



## Sue (Dec 6, 2021)

TBH, trying to keep up with changing developments here and in your destination country, getting there and discovering loads of stuff is closed/not possible to do and then possibly getting stuck somewhere and all that -- doesn't exactly sound like much of a holiday/very relaxing. And that's all apart from whether it's a wise/sensible thing to do.

I mean is it that much of a sacrifice to not go abroad for a while? Load of people manage that just fine every year.

(I'm not including people going abroad because of serious family illness/bereavement/emergency and the like as those aren't what I'd classify as going on holiday.)


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 6, 2021)

Going to Egypt in late March. Probably will be ok i think


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I try very hard not to sit in judgement on people's choices and decisions around Covid, but that's just fraudulent. If you're going to take the risk of going on holiday, TAKE THE FUCKING RISK. Don't try and game the system, or cheat it. We all know it's been set up in a venal corrupt way, but that is no reason to follow the example of our sleazy leaders.
> 
> Definitely fileable under "cunt's trick", in my book.



Not for me, I won't do that, I'll cancel if I can get my money back, but I can't blame people who have a choice between loosing the money or risking getting stuck


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

Cloo said:


> NB Harry Smiles - those people's plans on unsupervised LFTs won't work. They aren't supervised in person but are set up so you can't get around them that way. You literally have to send video of yourself/person in question doing the test in a very specific way so you can't just substitute another one. Believe me, I know because oldest had to do one on return from Italy in half term and it was such a massive faff that we needed the two of us as well as eldest to do it. Anyway, don't tell them that, let them have the fun of finding out.



You don't for some of them. They are the same set up and providers as the Day 2 LFT I did I while back. Of course I did the test myself, but only had to send a photo of the test cartridge back. I could have got the postman to do it for all the provider knew. 

The system is so easily gameable, it's an absolute farce.


----------



## kebabking (Dec 6, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Not for me, I won't do that, I'll cancel if I can get my money back, but I can't blame people who have a choice between loosing the money or risking getting stuck



sorry, but i can - anyone who hasn't learnt over the last two years that the rules can change in an instant, and that _exactly_ this happened last year is an idiot - if they booked a holiday thinking it can't/shouldn't happen to them, or that if it does they'll 'work around it' then they are stupid, massively entitled cunts. people who take that view are no different to the people who bought 5 years supply of toilet roll in a weekend, or who refuse to wear masks in shops or on PT.

cunts, just massive cunts.


----------



## LDC (Dec 6, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Going to Egypt in late March. Probably will be ok i think



What are you basing the 'probably will be ok I think' on?!

I'm supposed to be going to France for 2 weeks mid March next year, and in the last few weeks have started to think that is quite likely not to happen, or at least be so much faff as to not make it worth it.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 6, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Not for me, I won't do that, I'll cancel if I can get my money back, but I can't blame people who have a choice between loosing the money or risking getting stuck


I can. I think that, if you decided to spend money on travel during these times, then you don't get entitled to fuck the system just to save yourself some £££. Those precautions - weak as they are - are in place to prevent a serious pandemic getting worse, and people who cheat the system are directly undermining those precautions.

If people MUST try and go on holiday (and I seriously doubt that "must"), then they have to bear the risk of losing money. It is completely unreasonable to expect the rest of the world's population to bear additional risk because they don't want to.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 6, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I try very hard not to sit in judgement on people's choices and decisions around Covid, but that's just fraudulent. If you're going to take the risk of going on holiday, TAKE THE FUCKING RISK. Don't try and game the system, or cheat it. We all know it's been set up in a venal corrupt way, but that is no reason to follow the example of our sleazy leaders.
> 
> Definitely fileable under "cunt's trick", in my book.



It's also the kind of thing that gets your picture in the news if you get caught and makes you public enemy number one!


----------



## existentialist (Dec 6, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Going to Egypt in late March. Probably will be ok i think


What's your definition of "will be OK"?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I can. I think that, if you decided to spend money on travel during these times, then you don't get entitled to fuck the system just to save yourself some £££. Those precautions - weak as they are - are in place to prevent a serious pandemic getting worse, and people who cheat the system are directly undermining those precautions.
> 
> If people MUST try and go on holiday (and I seriously doubt that "must"), then they have to bear the risk of losing money. It is completely unreasonable to expect the rest of the world's population to bear additional risk because they don't want to.



I'll save my ire for the idiots in charge, but I see your point


----------



## existentialist (Dec 6, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> I'll save my ire for the idiots in charge, but I see your point


Oh, nothing I am saying here is in any way intended to let the idiots in charge off the hook - they've been bigger cunts over this than anyone. That's all the more reason for the rest of us to dial back on the cuntitude, in my view.

And I have ire to spare


----------



## kabbes (Dec 6, 2021)

I think that if you want to go abroad in the next few months, you should be absolutely counting on it being a shitshow of quarantine hell in both directions.  If it turns out not to be, that should be a bonus, not the expectation.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 6, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Going to Egypt in late March. Probably will be ok i think


2023 or 2024?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Oh, nothing I am saying here is in any way intended to let the idiots in charge off the hook - they've been bigger cunts over this than anyone. That's all the more reason for the rest of us to dial back on the cuntitude, in my view.
> 
> And I have ire to spare



Spare Ire! Under the mat in the boot, I'd guess. (Or around the midriff, at my age!)


----------



## Cloo (Dec 6, 2021)

The stress of getting oldest to and from Italy with my inlaws put us off Christmas booking in the end. gsv was talking about resurrecting out 2020 America plan for next summer but I think we're probably best off sticking with short-haul, not super-expensive and not booked way in advance for the foreseeable. I'm a bit  annoyed we held off abroad last year on accounts of 'it'll be easier next year' - the fact is I think 2022 could be even more complicated now!


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Dec 6, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> What are you basing the 'probably will be ok I think' on?!
> 
> I'm supposed to be going to France for 2 weeks mid March next year, and in the last few weeks have started to think that is quite likely not to happen, or at least be so much faff as to not make it worth it.


We're thinking of going to Dorset next April, and I'm not even sure about that now.


----------



## kebabking (Dec 6, 2021)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> We're thinking of going to Dorset next April, and I'm not even sure about that now.



The huge advantage of staying in the UK is that - financially aside - you're never commited: you can decide on your way there that it's not going to go well and turn around, you could even be half-way through the holiday, hear about incoming travel restrictions and bale at 4am. Once you walk up the steps to the flight, or drive onto the ferry, or get on the train, you lose any control and entirely place yourself in the hands of the whims of others.

UK holidays for us next year. If they happen they happen, but if not at least we're not risking a hotel quarantine with all the agro.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 6, 2021)

Middle Q and her fiance are going to visit his family in Ireland for the first time in three years after Xmas, they need Digital Test Certificates going (they're both vaccinated, both had the lurgy for that matter) but no tests either way (so far) apparently the rules change again this week but Ireland isn't affected. However she reckons getting stranded in County Galway probably not worst fate in the world.
As for her mother and I, the last time we went abroad was Salzburg in 2019, no idea (and no plans) when we will again at the moment. Next year it will probably be Scotland. Despite or possibly because she is a city girl, Mrs Q loves the Highlands. It's much less likely we'll be forced to abandon it, It doesn't require any testing and social distancing is automatically included.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 6, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Middle Q and her fiance are going to visit his family in Ireland for the first time in three years after Xmas, they need Digital Test Certificates going (they're both vaccinated, both had the lurgy for that matter) but no tests either way (so far) apparently the rules change again this week but Ireland isn't affected. However she reckons getting stranded in County Galway probably not worst fate in the world.


I am confused here, surely 'Digital Test Certificates' require a test, so 'no tests either way' makes no sense?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> I am confused here, surely 'Digital Test Certificates' require a test, so 'no tests either way' makes no sense?


the test refers to the certificate


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 6, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> the test refers to the certificate





Ireland requires travellers from the UK to have a test, so 'no tests either way' makes no sense, as you need one to get into Ireland.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Ireland requires travellers from the UK to have a test, so 'no tests either way' makes no sense, as you need one to get into Ireland.


yes but you have a test certificate which will only be valid until they issue a more permanent piece of paper or digital certificate: the certificate is in its testing phase. as usual the government confuses matters by not calling it a test digital certificate


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 6, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> yes but you have a test certificate which will only be valid until they issue a more permanent piece of paper or digital certificate: the certificate is in its testing phase. as usual the government confuses matters by not calling it a test digital certificate



I have absolutely no idea about what you are going on about TBH. 

MickiQ posted about travel between Ireland & the UK requires 'no tests either way', yet Ireland requires tests from UK travellers.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> I have absolutely no idea about what you are going on about TBH.
> 
> MickiQ posted about travel between Ireland & the UK requires 'no tests either way', yet Ireland requires tests from UK travellers.


As I understand (and I freely confess to relaying all this information third hand and may thus be completely wrong) is that these DTC's or whatever they're called are some sort of EU thing that is a QR code on their phones that say that they are vaccinated. Middle reckons there will be no need for them to take a test either in the days leading up to driving onto the boat or off the boat at either end. 
If we get a disgruntled phone call from either Holyhead or Dublin then we will know she is wrong.


----------



## Glitter (Dec 6, 2021)

Cloo said:


> NB Harry Smiles - those people's plans on unsupervised LFTs won't work. They aren't supervised in person but are set up so you can't get around them that way. You literally have to send video of yourself/person in question doing the test in a very specific way so you can't just substitute another one. Believe me, I know because oldest had to do one on return from Italy in half term and it was such a massive faff that we needed the two of us as well as eldest to do it. Anyway, don't tell them that, let them have the fun of finding out.


I did one when I came back from Spain last week. No instructions whatsoever, no video, nowhere to send the photo. 

It’s almost like I handed over money for nothing.


----------



## klang (Dec 6, 2021)

Glitter said:


> I did one when I came back from Spain last week. No instructions whatsoever, no video, nowhere to send the photo.
> 
> It’s almost like I handed over money for nothing.


somebody came to visit me a while ago when day 2 tests were also mandatory, but never received the test. they ended up getting their money back (after a lot of angry emailing).


----------



## Griff (Dec 6, 2021)

Much as I'd love a visit to a Greek island, can't even think of it for the forseeable future at all.


----------



## klang (Dec 6, 2021)

Glitter said:


> I did one when I came back from Spain last week. No instructions whatsoever, no video, nowhere to send the photo.
> 
> It’s almost like I handed over money for nothing.


out of interest - how long did it take for the result to come back (if there was one)?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 6, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> As I understand (and I freely confess to relaying all this information third hand and may thus be completely wrong) is that these DTC's or whatever they're called are some sort of EU thing that is a QR code on their phones that say that they are vaccinated. Middle reckons there will be no need for them to take a test either in the days leading up to driving onto the boat or off the boat at either end.
> If we get a disgruntled phone call from either Holyhead or Dublin then we will know she is wrong.



Ireland introduced test requirements for travellers from the UK last Friday.



> *A negative Covid-19 test will be needed for those arriving into ports and airports in the Republic of Ireland from Friday.*
> Travellers will need to show results from a lateral flow test taken up to 48 hours before arrival, or a PCR test taken up to 72 hours earlier.
> The move was agreed by ministers in Dublin on Tuesday.
> 
> Airlines and ferry companies are in talks with the Department of Transport to discuss checks before people board Ireland-bound flights or boats.











						Covid-19: Negative test needed to enter Republic of Ireland from Friday
					

From Friday, travellers will need to show results from a PCR test or a lateral flow test.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Glitter (Dec 6, 2021)

klang said:


> out of interest - how long did it take for the result to come back (if there was one)?


It was an LFT - I missed the PCR requirement by about 15 hrs so it was 20 mins but I might as well not have bothered.


----------



## elbows (Dec 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Ireland introduced test requirements for travellers from the UK last Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also see UK government page about this:



> Travel from non-scheduled states





> From 00.01 on Sunday 5 December 2021 anyone travelling to Ireland has to show a negative COVID-19 test. This includes travellers from Great Britain, but not those whose journey originates in Northern Ireland (see specific guidance for these travellers below). Travellers who have proof of vaccination or recovery from COVID-19 may show either a negative antigen test which was carried out by an approved professional no more than 48 hours before arrival in Ireland (not self-administered) or a negative PCR test which was carried out no more than 72 hours before arrival. Travellers who do not have a Digital COVID Certificate based on vaccination or recovery have to show a negative PCR test, taken no more than 72 hours before arrival in Ireland. There are specific exemptions to the requirements above. You should visit the Irish government website for more details.








						Entry requirements - Ireland travel advice
					

Latest FCDO travel advice for Ireland including on entry requirements, safety and security and local laws and customs.




					www.gov.uk


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Ireland introduced test requirements for travellers from the UK last Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well that disagrees with what she told me on Saturday so clearly the rules are in a state of flux and she is not current on them,  I will do my paternal duty and text her to let her know that she might need to check again but he's 32 and she's 28 so they are grown adults and ultimately responsible for their own actions.  You will have to be passed off as a work colleague since Middle Q is as ignorant of U75 as her mother.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 6, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Well that disagrees with what she told me on Saturday so clearly the rules are in a state of flux and she is not current on them,  I will do my paternal duty and text her to let her know that she might need to check again but he's 32 and she's 28 so they are grown adults and ultimately responsible for their own actions.  You will have to be passed off as a work colleague since Middle Q is as ignorant of U75 as her mother.



TBH at those ages, I would expect them to at least catch a TV news bulletin daily, if they don't bother with other media coverage.

Although, increasingly I've become aware of people that don't just bother to keep up with the news, and then moan about being caught out, due to their own ignorance.  🤷‍♂️


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> TBH at those ages, I would expect them to at least catch a TV news bulletin daily, if they don't bother with other media coverage.
> 
> Although, increasingly I've become aware of people that don't just bother to keep up with the news, and then moan about being caught out, due to their own ignorance.  🤷‍♂️


Neither of them are stupid so I would expect them to be checking the situation regularly, You have been asigned the Secret Identity of 'Mike' (since I can't admit to taking advice from someone called cupid_stunt without a LOT of questions)
I suspect I will get the standard response of "I'm a Nurse Dad, I'm rushed off my feet these days and can't just sit round chitchatting'


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 6, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> You have been asigned the Secret Identity of 'Mike' (since I can't admit to taking advice from someone called cupid_stunt without a LOT of questions)



Well, considering my name is Mike, you've done well.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 6, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I try very hard not to sit in judgement on people's choices and decisions around Covid, but that's just fraudulent. If you're going to take the risk of going on holiday, TAKE THE FUCKING RISK. Don't try and game the system, or cheat it. We all know it's been set up in a venal corrupt way, but that is no reason to follow the example of our sleazy leaders.
> 
> Definitely fileable under "cunt's trick", in my book.




You probably won't be surprised at the number of punters I've had who ask for ways round testing/quarantine. I even had one woman 2 weeks ago in Paris at a conference, she didn't need a pre-departure test but for some reason everyone at the conference started taking PCR tests, so she did too, came up positive. Her PA calls me and asks what is she to do, tell her she must isolate in France for 10 days. Two hours later I get notification that this woman has changed her Eurostar booking and is on her way back to London. Fucking outrageous behaviour, her PA quit over it, called her a cunt and walked.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 6, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You probably won't be surprised at the number of punters I've had who ask for ways round testing/quarantine. I even had one woman 2 weeks ago in Paris at a conference, she didn't need a pre-departure test but for some reason everyone at the conference started taking PCR tests, so she did too, came up positive. Her PA calls me and asks what is she to do, tell her she must isolate in France for 10 days. Two hours later I get notification that this woman has changed her Eurostar booking and is on her way back to London. Fucking outrageous behaviour, her PA quit over it, called her a cunt and walked.


Good for the PA, even if there isn't much else to celebrate in that story.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Well, considering my name is Mike, you've done well.


I have received neither the expected response nor the hoped for one of "Thank you for your concern Father, but we are aware and have the situation in hand" 
She has replied with the single response of 'FUCK' which whilst confirming that my third born child has inherited more than just her looks from her mother also leads me to believe that neither she nor Paddy have checked travel advice over the weekend.


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> TBH at those ages, I would expect them to at least catch a TV news bulletin daily, if they don't bother with other media coverage.
> 
> Although, increasingly I've become aware of people that don't just bother to keep up with the news, and then moan about being caught out, due to their own ignorance.  🤷‍♂️


I'm 38, and don't think I've watched a news bulletin in about 5 years


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 6, 2021)

strung out said:


> I'm 38, and don't think I've watched a news bulletin in about 5 years



And, you ignore all other news coverage?


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> And, you ignore all other news coverage?


Depends. I look at the headlines on BBC news, but get almost everything else from social media (here and twitter mainly).


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## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 6, 2021)

Sounds like my 3 days of visiting my mum in France for Christmas will either involved 3 tests with the attendant risks,
or
I could book a new journey going to NI then overland to the republic and flying over to France and the same on the way back by-passing all needs for tests... not sure this will fit in the 84 hours I had planned to go for...  (e2a: I would obviously had to lie on my declaration to the french authorities, so not such a cunning plan after all)
Now to give her the bad news :/


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 6, 2021)

Ryanair had a sale a month ago and I got a very good deal to Vienna for January . Austria's gone into lockdown since then but that is due to end before Christmas.

But it's looking now that the PCRs may well cost more than the flights. If so I won't bother going.

Doubt I'll get any money back of course but that was the risk I ran


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

Ran into a barrister I know today who says he's been to Italy three time since day 2 tests were required and every time he's booked one for the PLF reference, but not done or returned the test, and heard nothing afterwards. Just how much money is being spen, with no outcome?


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 6, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Ran into a barrister I know today who says he's been to Italy three time since day 2 tests were required and every time he's booked one for the PLF reference, but not done or returned the test, and heard nothing afterwards. Just how much money is being spen, with no outcome?


randox?


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## Johnny Doe (Dec 6, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> randox?


He didn't say


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## belboid (Dec 7, 2021)

We’re meant to be off to Madrid tomorrow. A rebooked break from earlier in the year - it was bound to be fine by now, what with all the vaccines! Hey ho.  

It’s still clear as mud exactly what we need to do re the lateral flow test for the flight back.  Various places say they will do them, but then only offer PCR tests, at over a hundred euros each, when you actually look.   You can do it at the airport, but no clue is given as to how long it might take (or what cost it would be).  

I am tempted to go fuck it and just have a few days off here.  But we’d have pissed £600 down the drain in that case.


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## Johnny Doe (Dec 7, 2021)

belboid said:


> We’re meant to be off to Madrid tomorrow. A rebooked break from earlier in the year - it was bound to be fine by now, what with all the vaccines! Hey ho.
> 
> It’s still clear as mud exactly what we need to do re the lateral flow test for the flight back.  Various places say they will do them, but then only offer PCR tests, at over a hundred euros each, when you actually look.   You can do it at the airport, but no clue is given as to how long it might take (or what cost it would be).
> 
> I am tempted to go fuck it and just have a few days off here.  But we’d have pissed £600 down the drain in that case.



£19 and you only have to upload a photo of your test, no mucking around with testing on-camera









						Covid-19 Testing Kits
					

Chronomics




					www.chronomics.com
				




E2A: I used this firm for my Day 2 LFT test a month ago and the result certficate within seconds of uploading the photo of the cartridge

E2A #2: Just realise you need for tomorrow as you need to take with you, so waiting for this to posted out won't work


----------



## belboid (Dec 7, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> £19 and you only have to upload a photo of your test, no mucking around with testing on-camera
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn, that would be perfect if we weren’t going tomorrow!


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## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 7, 2021)

belboid said:


> Damn, that would be perfect if we weren’t going tomorrow!


Where are you flying from?
You can probably collect one at the airport on the way out. maybe check this list


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## belboid (Dec 7, 2021)

They only seem to be for pcr at the moment.   Found one I can collect from Homebase, of all places.


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## scifisam (Dec 7, 2021)

belboid said:


> They only seem to be for pcr at the moment.   Found one I can collect from Homebase, of all places.



Assume that's one you do yourself


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 8, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> What are you basing the 'probably will be ok I think' on?!
> 
> I'm supposed to be going to France for 2 weeks mid March next year, and in the last few weeks have started to think that is quite likely not to happen, or at least be so much faff as to not make it worth it.


its in 4 months, which is long enough for everything to calm down if omicron is a damp squib. if not then I can cancel or reschedule so no skin off my nose.


----------



## belboid (Dec 8, 2021)

scifisam said:


> Assume that's one you do yourself




After hours off faff yesterday, we now have twice as many of the bloody things as we need.  

The friends we were going to see have flu, so that’s out.   Still, I’m sure I could sit n stare at Guernica for yonks and the statue to Satan should be showing him absolutely pissing himself with the state of the world.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 8, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> its in 4 months, which is long enough for everything to calm down if omicron is a damp squib. if not then I can cancel or reschedule so no skin off my nose.


My friend flights to Turkey in early February have been cancelled today. She had rescheduled from november due to other circumstances.


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## Spymaster (Dec 8, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> My friend flights to Turkey in early February have been cancelled today. She had rescheduled from november due to other circumstances.


You mean she cancelled them? Surely the airline didn’t cancel it this soon?


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 8, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> You mean she cancelled them? Surely the airline didn’t cancel it this soon?


The airline cancelled today: Jet2.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 8, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> The airline cancelled today: Jet2.



Blimey. Did they say why? Is it definitely Covid related? Seems strange when there aren't any travel restrictions nbow, let alone looking forward to February.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 8, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Blimey. Did they say why? Is it definitely Covid related? Seems strange when there aren't any travel restrictions nbow, let alone looking forward to February.


this is what was in the email:



> As a result of further restrictions on international travel, we have reviewed our flying programme and we are very sorry to say that your flight is no longer going ahead. Please see below for your affected booking(s).



This was at 15:30, refund effectuated by 18:40

e2a: update Spymaster : the airline is still flying but they have reduced the number of flights going due to low demand and her flight was one of those cancelled so she rescheduled her surgery flight and accomodation and saved just over £200 in the process.


----------



## belboid (Dec 8, 2021)

After massive faff with LFTs and more time than surely necessary to complete the Spanish passenger locator form…everything else was a piece of piss, quick and felt pretty safe.   Everyone fully masked all the way, a quick flash of our approved traveller QR codes and we were straight through.   Ryanair were also unable to spend the entire flight flogging us shit.   Which was nice.


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## DaphneM (Dec 9, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> My friend flights to Turkey in early February have been cancelled today. She had rescheduled from november due to other circumstances.


i  had 2 weeks holiday which needed to by used up by end of the financial year so had to book something.


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## Artaxerxes (Dec 9, 2021)

kebabking said:


> The huge advantage of staying in the UK is that - financially aside - you're never commited: you can decide on your way there that it's not going to go well and turn around, you could even be half-way through the holiday, hear about incoming travel restrictions and bale at 4am. Once you walk up the steps to the flight, or drive onto the ferry, or get on the train, you lose any control and entirely place yourself in the hands of the whims of others.
> 
> UK holidays for us next year. If they happen they happen, but if not at least we're not risking a hotel quarantine with all the agro.



Disadvantage is you get to stay in the UK with all that entails.

Bad weather and shit trains


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## DaphneM (Dec 9, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> Disadvantage is you get to stay in the UK with all that entails.
> 
> Bad weather and shit trains


exactly, not really a holiday in my mind


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## existentialist (Dec 9, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> exactly, not really a holiday in my mind


I think that the wise thing to do is - unlike our tabloid press - to stop seeing the whole thing in a childlike way, whereby holidays abroad are some sort of right that's been taken away by the Nasty Man, and accept that, right now, they're just a bit incompatible with an infectious virus sweeping the world.

I had a good deal more faith in humanity's ability to do the Right Thing before this business started; now, I can't help but wonder whether we're all a lot more like a bunch of big needy kids than I ever realised.


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 9, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I think that the wise thing to do is - unlike our tabloid press - to stop seeing the whole thing in a childlike way, whereby holidays abroad are some sort of right that's been taken away by the Nasty Man, and accept that, right now, they're just a bit incompatible with an infectious virus sweeping the world.
> 
> I had a good deal more faith in humanity's ability to do the Right Thing before this business started; now, I can't help but wonder whether we're all a lot more like a bunch of big needy kids than I ever realised.



My holidays haven't been taken away at all. last year and the year before I cycled round France. This year I am planning to go to Egypt. If that's not possible then I will go somewhere which is possible.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 9, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> My holidays haven't been taken away at all. last year and the year before I cycled round France. This year I am planning to go to Egypt. If that's not possible then I will go somewhere which is possible.


Just so long as you can prioritise getting your needs met, and don't worry too much about spreading any infection


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 9, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Just so long as you can prioritise getting your needs met, and don't worry too much about spreading any infection


thanks!


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 9, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> Disadvantage is you get to stay in the UK with all that entails.
> 
> Bad weather and shit trains


The latter at least is avoidable, as for the first, the uncertainty can had an element of surprise to the planning.


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## Flavour (Dec 12, 2021)

I'm really in two minds about coming to the UK for Christmas. I've had a chronic cough for months and have to see pneumologist about it on Wednesday, I'm hoping they will tell me not to go, then at least I'll have a good excuse. Don't think flights will get cancelled like last year with Alpha but I think coming is a big risk, especially if I get Covid while I'm in the UK and have to quarantine and therefore miss my flight back to Italy - which would _really_ suck


----------



## Saffy (Dec 12, 2021)

My sister is due to fly to the UK on Wednesday. She's had a nightmare finding somewhere which will do a PCR test as most are catering for tourists and people who have only been in the country fewer than 45 days. I'm just hoping they manage to fly.


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## Sue (Dec 12, 2021)

Flavour said:


> I'm really in two minds about coming to the UK for Christmas. I've had a chronic cough for months and have to see pneumologist about it on Wednesday, I'm hoping they will tell me not to go, then at least I'll have a good excuse. Don't think flights will get cancelled like last year with Alpha but I think coming is a big risk, especially if I get Covid while I'm in the UK and have to quarantine and therefore miss my flight back to Italy - which would _really_ suck


I know it's hard but I don't think I would if I were you. The last thing you need is to catch Covid if you've got some kind of ongoing lung issue. And if you're seeing older relatives or whatever, you wouldn't want to potentially pass it on. 

(I was saying on the other thread that I've decided not to travel from London to Scotland as it doesn't feel like the right thing to do right now. )


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## kebabking (Dec 12, 2021)

Flavour I think it's going to be a gang-fuck mate, I see a government absolutely desperate to not do restrictions, and a Sci-Med establishment absolutely desperate to slow down an exploding infection rate. 

I'd heavily advise people to stay in whatever country they call home - it's not that I think the dead will be lining the streets here - or anywhere else - but that I think travel restrictions and testing/quarantine faff are going to be brought in with bugger all notice and lots of chaos.


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## Flavour (Dec 12, 2021)

Sue said:


> I know it's hard but I don't think I would if I were you. The last thing you need is to catch Covid if you've got some kind of ongoing lung issue. And if you're seeing older relatives or whatever, you wouldn't want to potentially pass it on.
> 
> (I was saying on the other thread that I've decided not to travel from London to Scotland as it doesn't feel like the right thing to do right now. )


Yeah, it's mainly my mum who will be upset about it -- personally I don't really care. And i know I'm likely to come into contact with Covid in Italy too it's just the faff of flying and doing all the tests, it's a massive pain


----------



## Supine (Dec 12, 2021)

kebabking said:


> Flavour I think it's going to be a gang-fuck mate, I see a government absolutely desperate to not do restrictions, and a Sci-Med establishment absolutely desperate to slow down an exploding infection rate.
> 
> I'd heavily advise people to stay in whatever country they call home - it's not that I think the dead will be lining the streets here - or anywhere else - but that I think travel restrictions and testing/quarantine faff are going to be brought in with bugger all notice and lots of chaos.



This. International travel for the next few months is very risky for a number of reasons. Might be better to plan a summer trip.


----------



## steeplejack (Dec 12, 2021)

Mt father in law died three weeks ago, and my wife is in the country abroad where our family lives.

The plan was that I would go to relatives in London and fly out there when she left this country in the last week of November.

That's sunk now, as the place our family is based in doesn't have six flights a day from the UK at the best of times.

Moreover, as Sue says above (but in reverse) somehow there's a sense of guilt associated with travelling from Scotland to London. I'm not quite resigned to signing off on Christmas on my own where I live, but recognise that the chances of travel from here to London three days before Christmas are 50:50 at best, presently. I have a car so would drive and minimise stops / human contact, but feel it's quite likely it will be banned.

Moral of the story: some international travel is absolutely essential and for very good family reasons. Not all foreign travellers are gammons in Range Rovers insisting on their "right" to a foreign holiday, whenever they want it.

What will be difficult to tolerate in the event of much steeper suppression measures, is whey-faced, hypocritical politicians wringing their hands on telly saying _"we know this is tough"_. Fuck you. You had 20 months to get this right, and failed comprehensively. We are where we are because of the cumulative actions of politicians globally prioritising profit and "back to normal" over people's lives, and ignoring countries with much more profound challenges in rolling out vaccination programmes. As long as a large part of the developing world remains unvaccinated so too does the primoridal viral soup that progressively tougher new variants thrive in.

There's also no sign that there's any appetite amongst what's left of global governance to meet that challenge head on. Where my wife is from, vaccines are barely available and out of date / borderline out of date doses are routinely sent to salve the conscience of the Sajid Javids of this world. Oh, sorry, he's a creepy Randist weirdo and doesn't have one. I forgot.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 13, 2021)

France is introducing new rules, requiring negative PCR tests for all, including the vaccinated.









						France's latest Covid rules for Brits as it introduces travel ban due to Omicron
					

Covid travel restrictions in France are in place due to the Omicron variant including a new UK travel ban on Brits coming into force this month which means holidays are off the cards




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 14, 2021)

belboid said:


> After massive faff with LFTs and more time than surely necessary to complete the Spanish passenger locator form…everything else was a piece of piss, quick and felt pretty safe.   Everyone fully masked all the way, a quick flash of our approved traveller QR codes and we were straight through.   Ryanair were also unable to spend the entire flight flogging us shit.   Which was nice.



Returned from Norway last night. Everything went smoothly and the aircraft and airports were very quiet. I counted 28 passengers on the flight from Bergen to Heathrow. We did everything by the book and completed our return LFTs on Saturday evening. They were just self-administered in the hotel room and photos of the results uploaded to a website. You could very easily game those if you were that way inclined. Nobody asked us to show them the results at the airports anyway. In Norway the check-in woman asked if we had a Corona pass. I mistakenly showed her my NHS barcode when she was probably after the return LFT result but she waved me through anyway. There's no way that check-in staff all over the world are going to know what all the different LFT results are going to look like, and why should they care? In London we came straight through the eGates, collected our luggage and came home, without being asked for anything at all. The system doesn't work.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 14, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Returned from Norway last night. Everything went smoothly and the aircraft and airports were very quiet. I counted 28 passengers on the flight from Bergen to Heathrow. We did everything by the book and completed our return PCRs on Saturday evening. They were just self-administered in the hotel room and photos of the results uploaded to a website. You could very easily game those if you were that way inclined. Nobody asked us to show them the results at the airports anyway. In Norway the check-in woman asked if we had a Corona pass. I mistakenly showed her my NHS barcode when she was probably after the return PCR result but she waved me through anyway. There's no way that check-in staff all over the world are going to know what all the different PCR results are going to look like, and why should they care? In London we came straight through the eGates, collected our luggage and came home, without being asked for anything at all. The system doesn't work.


I don't doubt it but 99pc of people will do tests and if positive won't travel.
The system works as long as that happens.
The checking by air staff is irrelevant if the other bit happens.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 14, 2021)

ska invita said:


> I don't doubt it but 99pc of people will do tests and if positive won't travel.
> The system works as long as that happens.
> The checking by air staff is irrelevant if the other bit happens.


For now but every person that returns unchallenged will tell others and ever more will do it and they will tell more and so forth, people will just disregard rules that inconvenience them and they know will not be enforced.
The rules don't have to be enforced totally and fairly just enough to make people feel that breaking them is not worthwhile (and that's true for every rule or law not just covid) 
A great many other people just aren't bothering with foreign travel not because of  some selfless desire to not help spread the plague it's because it's not worth the potential aggro. 
The more people realise there is very little chance of any aggro, the less bothered about it they will be.


----------



## _Russ_ (Dec 14, 2021)

Anecdotally from a forum full of Bikers I frequent who have traveled in the last 2 years its been that way all through the pandemic, all of them saying no challenges coming back this end.
I haven't been out of the country since Nov 2019 so can't back that up but I don't doubt it.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 14, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> For now but every person that returns unchallenged will tell others and ever more will do it and they will tell more and so forth, people will just disregard rules that inconvenience them and they know will not be enforced.
> The rules don't have to be enforced totally and fairly just enough to make people feel that breaking them is not worthwhile (and that's true for every rule or law not just covid)
> A great many other people just aren't bothering with foreign travel not because of  some selfless desire to not help spread the plague it's because it's not worth the potential aggro.
> The more people realise there is very little chance of any aggro, the less bothered about it they will be.


i disagree


----------



## existentialist (Dec 14, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> For now but every person that returns unchallenged will tell others and ever more will do it and they will tell more and so forth, people will just disregard rules that inconvenience them and they know will not be enforced.
> The rules don't have to be enforced totally and fairly just enough to make people feel that breaking them is not worthwhile (and that's true for every rule or law not just covid)
> A great many other people just aren't bothering with foreign travel not because of  some selfless desire to not help spread the plague it's because it's not worth the potential aggro.
> The more people realise there is very little chance of any aggro, the less bothered about it they will be.


I think that the (hopefully quite small) proportion of the population that sees these restrictions as not relevant to infection might behave the way you describe, but I also think that most people - ie., those who "get" the idea that monitoring and restriction is a sound move to limit spread - are not going to do that...


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 14, 2021)

ska invita said:


> i disagree


Fair enough, any particular reason or do you just have more faith in peoples inherent selflessness than I do?


existentialist said:


> I think that the (hopefully quite small) proportion of the population that sees these restrictions as not relevant to infection might behave the way you describe, but I also think that most people - ie., those who "get" the idea that monitoring and restriction is a sound move to limit spread - are not going to do that...


I would prefer you to be right and me to be wrong but I'm far from sure about that. When this all started I think there was very much a 'Spirit of the Blitz' thing going on, now I think there is a lot more cynicism.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 14, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Fair enough, any particular reason or do you just have more faith in peoples inherent selflessness than I do?


Yes

plus there is a risk however small if you try to blag it you get caught, waste loads of money, generally end up with shit on your plate


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 14, 2021)

Edited the post above. The return tests were Lateral Flow Tests, not PCRs.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 14, 2021)

Most airlines do collect the info before allowing you to check in, you physically can't check in with someone like BA unless the info is in their system. People often forget they have entered it as there's so much other crap going on. The airline Spy flew with is a much smaller operation than BA, they would be happy to know that the UK passenger locator form has been completed, in order to do that you must make a legal declaration that you have met all the conditions needed to enter the UK, so if you've lied you could find yourself in very expensive trouble.


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 14, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I think that the wise thing to do is - unlike our tabloid press - to stop seeing the whole thing in a childlike way, whereby holidays abroad are some sort of right that's been taken away by the Nasty Man, and accept that, right now, they're just a bit incompatible with an infectious virus sweeping the world.
> 
> I had a good deal more faith in humanity's ability to do the Right Thing before this business started; now, I can't help but wonder whether we're all a lot more like a bunch of big needy kids than I ever realised.


Things are looking up!









						Sajid Javid clears England’s travel red list as Omicron takes hold
					

All 11 countries to be removed from list as concerns about importing variant diminish




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## LDC (Dec 14, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Things are looking up!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, Omicron is so widespread it makes less sense to have red list countries. Not exactly 'things are looking up' is it? (Although, you know, admirable optimism in the face of everything!)


----------



## _Russ_ (Dec 14, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Things are looking up!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Off you go then


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 14, 2021)

_Russ_ said:


> Off you go then


booked for March thanks


----------



## belboid (Dec 14, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Most airlines do collect the info before allowing you to check in, you physically can't check in with someone like BA unless the info is in their system. People often forget they have entered it as there's so much other crap going on. The airline Spy flew with is a much smaller operation than BA, they would be happy to know that the UK passenger locator form has been completed, in order to do that you must make a legal declaration that you have met all the conditions needed to enter the UK, so if you've lied you could find yourself in very expensive trouble.


Aye, we flew with Ryanair (shamed) and they had all the info already.   On the way back we had to show the PLF to a member of airport staff as well and she asked to see our PCR results too.  She wasn’t having it they we needed LFTs not PCRs but was perfectly happy with the (easily fakeable) results of the LFT.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 14, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> booked for March thanks


Good-oh. We should be at least up to the sigma variant by then


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 14, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Good-oh. We should be at least up to the sigma variant by then



We need to get through these mutations as quickly as possible. Once we get to Omega it'll be over.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 14, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> We need to get through these mutations as quickly as possible. Once we get to Omega it'll be over.


I did wonder what would happen when we run out of Greek letters. Maybe we'll go on to......Arabic ones?


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 14, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I did wonder what would happen when we run out of Greek letters. Maybe we'll go on to......Arabic ones?



Well they're missing a load out, aren't they. We've somehow gone from Delta to Omicron. Highly inefficient. They should be made to go back and use up all wasted ones.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 14, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Well they're missing a load out, aren't they. We've somehow gone from Delta to Omicron. Highly inefficient. They should be made to go back and use up all wasted ones.


I think they were wise to leave out "nu", though


----------



## kebabking (Dec 14, 2021)

I'm looking forward to them using the Hebrew alphabet - that's going to send the loons into fucking orbit.


----------



## smmudge (Dec 14, 2021)

Can we do Thai letters? They're pretty cute, chickens and bees and stuff. Teeth.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 14, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I think they were wise to leave out "nu", though



And, Xi Jinping.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 14, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> And, Xi Jinping.


Oh, I expect the loonies would like them ALL to be named for him!


----------



## existentialist (Dec 14, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Yeah, Omicron is so widespread it makes less sense to have red list countries. Not exactly 'things are looking up' is it? (Although, you know, admirable optimism in the face of everything!)


It is possible that our mutual friend doesn't have very much of a handle on the practicalities of all this


----------



## bimble (Dec 14, 2021)

i had an idle google yesterday, looking at places closer to the equator with a vague idea of how nice it would be to not be cold for a bit, and there are a whole bunch of countries with massively tourist-reliant economies who are still completely closed, no flights bookable at all no visas at least not until sometime next year (Laos, Cambodia, but not just them). It's getting on for two years and i have no idea how people are coping who normally rely on tourism for their work. Learnt also that Mauritania has amazing beaches btw, just the whole you might get yr head chopped off thing is a bit not so relaxing.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 14, 2021)

I know it's wrong of me but reports like this make me feel very smug









						Covid: 'Quarantine hotel fiasco has cost us £5,500'
					

People staying in government-approved hotels have complained of inedible food and feeling unsafe.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## nagapie (Dec 14, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I know it's wrong of me but reports like this make me feel very smug
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of my closest friends is in one. She got caught in SA visiting her dying mother, now dead, and now has to pay for her quarantine on her carer's pay. Carry on feeling smug.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 15, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I know it's wrong of me but reports like this make me feel very smug
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm all for careless, selfish people feeling the cold winds of consequence blowing through them, but these quarantine hotels are exploitative and abusive, and even if some of those ending up in them warrant such treatment, it's unhelpful and counterproductive - it's just the system gaming people...so no wonder people then feel entitled to game the system.

And, for those who, for whatever reason, find themselves trapped in a situation where they have to fork over thousands to Johnson's cronies, just to be treated like mugs and suckers, because by bad luck or circumstance they needed to travel...I have nothing but contempt for a system that aims to profit from their distress.


----------



## sparkybird (Dec 15, 2021)

Hi everyone. Any recommendations for a 2 day PCR test when I arrive back in the UK early Jan? I was going to use Dante again, but see they are under investigation.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 15, 2021)

Had dozens of people every day telling us they are flying tomorrow and what do they need to do  fair percentage of them unvaccinated too 😡🙄

The PCR testing centres are rammed and a lot of countries want an 'in clinic' test rather than at home testing. The prices seem to range from £20 to £150 depending on the person's vaccine status and where they are travelling to.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 15, 2021)

sparkybird said:


> Hi everyone. Any recommendations for a 2 day PCR test when I arrive back in the UK early Jan? I was going to use Dante again, but see they are under investigation.











						Amazon's £35 PCR test kits will shake up the market for exploitative providers, experts predict
					

Amazon's newly launched PCR test kits are significantly cheaper than those available via many other providers




					inews.co.uk


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 15, 2021)

sparkybird said:


> Hi everyone. Any recommendations for a 2 day PCR test when I arrive back in the UK early Jan? I was going to use Dante again, but see they are under investigation.



Amazon have just started doing them for £35.

Amazon are evil of course but I  hope their entry into the market will bring the prices down from other providers


----------



## miss direct (Dec 15, 2021)

Argh, went to book my day 2 test from the same provider I used last time and they have suspended service. I want the cheapest one, speed not important. And no, I haven't been on sodding holiday.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 15, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Argh, went to book my day 2 test from the same provider I used last time and they have suspended service. I want the cheapest one, speed not important. And no, I haven't been on sodding holiday.


Randox click and collect for £35, gets the results back you before midnight the next day after you put in their collection box.


----------



## miss direct (Dec 15, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Randox click and collect for £35, gets the results back you before midnight the next day after you put in their collection box.


I did have a look at Randox but no idea how/where to collect from. Speed isn't an issue and I suspect arriving in the UK next week just before Christmas will be chaos re testing anyway.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 15, 2021)

miss direct said:


> I did have a look at Randox but no idea how/where to collect from. Speed isn't an issue and I suspect arriving in the UK next week just before Christmas will be chaos re testing anyway.



If you are coming to London, there are loads. I ordered some Sunday morning and picked them up a mile away from my house.


----------



## miss direct (Dec 15, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> View attachment 300887
> If you are coming to London, there are loads. I ordered some Sunday morning and picked them up a mile away from my house.


I'm flying to Heathrow and then have to somehow get to Sheffield without contracting covid on public transport. Really hoping someone will pick me up.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 15, 2021)

miss direct said:


> I'm flying to Heathrow and then have to somehow get to Sheffield without contracting covid on public transport. Really hoping someone will pick me up.


If you do get a lift there somewhere a couple of miles from Heathrow you could collect from.

Good luck - hope it goes smoothly.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 15, 2021)

bimble said:


> Learnt also that Mauritania has amazing beaches btw, just the whole you might get yr head chopped off thing is a bit not so relaxing.


Wow, that's an aggressive variant


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 15, 2021)

sparkybird said:


> Hi everyone. Any recommendations for a 2 day PCR test when I arrive back in the UK early Jan? I was going to use Dante again, but see they are under investigation.


I used a Randox home test kit bought from Co-op Pharmacy online and delivered next day for about £45. That’ll go down soon now that Amazon are doing them for £35. No complaints, arrived on time, easy to do. I just stuck the completed test in one of their drop-boxes yesterday (same locations as on Harry’s map) and got an email last night saying the test was being done and the result emailed to me today.

One of the blokes who travelled with me got his done yesterday morning at a clinic (pre-booked)  for 80 quid and got the result straight away, but he wanted to go back to work on-site today.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 15, 2021)

I've used the Randox walk in and their drive in at Manchester Airport


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 15, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I'm all for careless, selfish people feeling the cold winds of consequence blowing through them, but these quarantine hotels are exploitative and abusive, and even if some of those ending up in them warrant such treatment, it's unhelpful and counterproductive - it's just the system gaming people...so no wonder people then feel entitled to game the system.
> 
> And, for those who, for whatever reason, find themselves trapped in a situation where they have to fork over thousands to Johnson's cronies, just to be treated like mugs and suckers, because by bad luck or circumstance they needed to travel...I have nothing but contempt for a system that aims to profit from their distress.


Fair point


----------



## sparkybird (Dec 15, 2021)

Thanks everyone for your suggestions for the day 2 test. Against better judgement went with Amazon as Mr SB had a voucher that needed using up. I'll report back in January!


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 16, 2021)

existentialist said:


> It is possible that our mutual friend doesn't have very much of a handle on the practicalities of all this











						Omicron wave sweeping the UK will ‘peak quite fast’ – Chris Whitty
					

‘My anticipation is it may come down faster than previous peaks,’ he told MPs on Thursday




					www.standard.co.uk
				




I am seeing this as a positive, i sense that the gloommongers here may not


----------



## Sue (Dec 16, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Omicron wave sweeping the UK will ‘peak quite fast’ – Chris Whitty
> 
> 
> ‘My anticipation is it may come down faster than previous peaks,’ he told MPs on Thursday
> ...


Why do you see it as a positive?


----------



## LDC (Dec 16, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Omicron wave sweeping the UK will ‘peak quite fast’ – Chris Whitty
> 
> 
> ‘My anticipation is it may come down faster than previous peaks,’ he told MPs on Thursday
> ...



Come on then, explain why you think this is a good thing, as opposed to every medical body which sees it as potentially disastrous.


----------



## elbows (Dec 16, 2021)

The coming down fast bit after the peak will have some advantages, but its hardly a pure good news story.


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 16, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Come on then, explain why you think this is a good thing, as opposed to every medical body which sees it as potentially disastrous.


only within the very narrow terms of going on holiday at the end of March.


----------



## Sue (Dec 16, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> only within the very narrow terms of going on holiday at the end of March.


Let me guess, you're going on holiday at the end of March?


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 16, 2021)

Sue said:


> Let me guess, you're going on holiday at the end of March?


well yes, this thread is about overseas holidays


----------



## LDC (Dec 16, 2021)

.


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 16, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> That is of top importance in the face of likely thousands of deaths and the possible overwhelm of the public health system and other associated issues.
> 
> Happy hols!


thanks!


----------



## LDC (Dec 16, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> well yes, this thread is about overseas holidays



Yes it is, just seems slightly weird to be seeing that a massive and rapid peak where likely thousands of people will die, the public health systems risks being over-whelmed and other associated risks, as a positive so you can go on holiday in March tbh!


----------



## Sue (Dec 16, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> well yes, this thread is about overseas holidays


Well as long as you and your holiday are okay! FFS.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 16, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Omicron wave sweeping the UK will ‘peak quite fast’ – Chris Whitty
> 
> 
> ‘My anticipation is it may come down faster than previous peaks,’ he told MPs on Thursday
> ...


What do you mean by "gloommongers"? 


DaphneM said:


> thanks!


Yeah, just so long as you get your holiday in March, and screw everyone else.

You're not covering yourself in glory here. I've been gently taking the piss out of your attitude for as long as you've been posting on this thread, and it's patently clear now that you're not interested in thinking about anything except your own narrow self-interest.


----------



## kebabking (Dec 16, 2021)

Doomsters!


----------



## prunus (Dec 16, 2021)

Stop feeding the troll.


----------



## killer b (Dec 16, 2021)

gloommongers, look on the bright side: the higher the pile of corpses you're sunbathing on, the closer you are to the sun.


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 16, 2021)

France is banning residents of Plague Island. My neighbours were due to go skiing on Sunday so that's a shame for them. They'd been self isolating at home for the last week to avoid infection before they went. 

But they knew that booking any foreign travel was uncertain


----------



## LDC (Dec 16, 2021)

Yeah, 2 friends of mine were going away to France for 2 weeks soon, and were very much looking forward to it. Obviously fucked now.


----------



## killer b (Dec 16, 2021)

My colleague went skiiing in France yesterday. I have concerns that she won't be back at work as planned next week...


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 16, 2021)

Does it apply to French passport holders as well?


----------



## elbows (Dec 16, 2021)

rubbershoes said:


> Does it apply to French passport holders as well?


There is a bit of detail here:



> The French prime minister's office said that from Saturday travellers would have to give a compelling reason for coming to France.
> 
> All arrivals will have to provide a negative Covid test less than 24 hours old and isolate for at least two days.
> 
> ...











						Covid: France to drastically restrict travel from UK
					

Non-residents will need compelling reasons to travel, as France tries to slow the spread of Omicron.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 16, 2021)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Yes it is, just seems slightly weird to be seeing that a massive and rapid peak where likely thousands of people will die, the public health systems risks being over-whelmed and other associated risks, as a positive so you can go on holiday in March tbh!


The hospitals are full of anti-vaxers. It's time to discharge the unvaxed with some morphine for home palliative care.

Why should those people be able to screw up my hard earned holiday!



Seriously, the problem in the hospitals is currently anti-vaxers. There will come a point when they will need to be triaged home to die.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 16, 2021)

rubbershoes said:


> France is banning residents of Plague Island. My neighbours were due to go skiing on Sunday so that's a shame for them. They'd been self isolating at home for the last week to avoid infection before they went.
> 
> But they knew that booking any foreign travel was uncertain


I'm due to fly to Paris (from Brazil) on the 26th. Fortunately I've not been on plague island since the start of all this. I really hope I can make the trip


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 16, 2021)

rubbershoes said:


> France is banning residents of Plague Island. My neighbours were due to go skiing on Sunday so that's a shame for them. They'd been self isolating at home for the last week to avoid infection before they went.
> 
> But they knew that booking any foreign travel was uncertain


How does it work for people who fail to meet the criteria will they be stopped at the French side of the border and made to go home? or will be it down to the check-in clerk at the ariport or St Pancras Int'l to decide?
Admittedly it was pre-Brexit and pre-Covid but the last time I went to France it was on a booze cruise and the only place I showed my passport was the huge booze warehouse in Calais


rubbershoes said:


> Does it apply to French passport holders as well?


From the Beeb story, French citizens, their partners and children, legal residents, and EU citizens travelling home through France, won't need an essential reason to travel - but must still abide by all other rules.
Sounds fair in principal but it means French people can come here catch it and take it back with them.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 16, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> The hospitals are full of anti-vaxers. It's time to discharge the unvaxed with some morphine for home palliative care.
> 
> Why should those people be able to screw up my hard earned holiday!
> 
> ...


TBF, the problem in the hospitals is currently "people who have not been vaccinated". Not all of them will be antivaxxers - some will be people who can't, for some reason, receive the vaccine.

And I think that getting into distinguishing between the two would be a potential nightmare. Much as I believe, like you, that those who have chosen not to be vaccinated for selfish and/or ignorant reasons ought to be face the consequences of that choice.


----------



## bimble (Dec 16, 2021)

What do you reckon will other countries copy France’s lead and ban us or is the French thing personal / fish related to some extent. Seems to me most likely others will follow suit within days.


----------



## bimble (Dec 16, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Seriously, the problem in the hospitals is currently anti-vaxers. There will come a point when they will need to be triaged home to die.


Do you feel the same way about smokers?


----------



## existentialist (Dec 16, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> How does it work for people who fail to meet the criteria will they be stopped at the French side of the border and made to go home? or will be it down to the check-in clerk at the ariport or St Pancras Int'l to decide?
> Admittedly it was pre-Brexit and pre-Covid but the last time I went to France it was on a booze cruise and the only place I showed my passport was the huge booze warehouse in Calais
> 
> From the Beeb story, French citizens, their partners and children, legal residents, and EU citizens travelling home through France, won't need an essential reason to travel - but must still abide by all other rules.
> Sounds fair in principal but it means French people can come here catch it and take it back with them.


My guess is that they will be turned around at the border and sent home, assuming they're not screened out at the point of departure. The ferry companies are certainly generally pretty hot on making sure all the documentation is in order...IME, more so even than the French border people; I've no idea what Eurostar are like.

And I don't doubt that there is a certain amount of schadenfreude (what _is_ the French for "schadenfreude"? Probably "bof") about this French government decision - the UK has spent the time since the whole Brexit debacle started demonstrating how unreliable and pissy we can be, and in their chaussures, I'd be quite keen to make a particular point about this, even if the decision is based on sound facts, like the fact that we're already a hotbed of Omicron, while France is still at a fairly low level.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> Do you feel the same way about smokers?


they are not flooding the hospitals. A lot of elective surgery is denied to obese people that don't make an effort to lose weight.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> What do you reckon will other countries copy France’s lead and ban us or is the French thing personal / fish related to some extent. Seems to me most likely others will follow suit within days.


you mean the result of Boris's "Perfidious Albion" strategy over Brexit...I don't think we can countenance such a thing


----------



## DaphneM (Dec 16, 2021)

existentialist said:


> My guess is that they will be turned around at the border and sent home, assuming they're not screened out at the point of departure. The ferry companies are certainly generally pretty hot on making sure all the documentation is in order...IME, more so even than the French border people; I've no idea what Eurostar are like.
> 
> And I don't doubt that there is a certain amount of schadenfreude (what _is_ the French for "schadenfreude"? Probably "bof") about this French government decision - the UK has spent the time since the whole Brexit debacle started demonstrating how unreliable and pissy we can be, and in their chaussures, I'd be quite keen to make a particular point about this, even if the decision is based on sound facts, like the fact that we're already a hotbed of Omicron, while France is still at a fairly low level.




Joie maligne or malin plaisir


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> What do you reckon will other countries copy France’s lead and ban us or is the French thing personal / fish related to some extent. Seems to me most likely others will follow suit within days.



Well considering France were reporting similar case numbers to the UK, until yesterday, despite running under half the tests per million compared to the UK, and omicron is already spreading in Europe, it does seem more like part of Macron's 'bash & Brits' policy/election campaign,


----------



## existentialist (Dec 16, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> How does it work for people who fail to meet the criteria will they be stopped at the French side of the border and made to go home? or will be it down to the check-in clerk at the ariport or St Pancras Int'l to decide?
> Admittedly it was pre-Brexit and pre-Covid but the last time I went to France it was on a booze cruise and the only place I showed my passport was the huge booze warehouse in Calais
> 
> From the Beeb story, French citizens, their partners and children, legal residents, and EU citizens travelling home through France, won't need an essential reason to travel - but must still abide by all other rules.
> Sounds fair in principal but it means French people can come here catch it and take it back with them.


Except that they will need to quarantine on their return to France, unless they have a negative Day 2 test.


----------



## killer b (Dec 16, 2021)

Fair play, I'd bash us if I was him too.


----------



## elbows (Dec 16, 2021)

existentialist said:


> TBF, the problem in the hospitals is currently "people who have not been vaccinated".


How many times do I have to bore on about the actual hospital data regarding vaccination status in order for people to stop saying that?

eg:        #327


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 16, 2021)

elbows said:


> How many times do I have to bore on about the actual hospital data regarding vaccination status in order for people to stop saying that?
> 
> eg:        #327



I know most in hospital are vaccinated, but I am sure there's been reports of most in ITC are unvaccinated, is that right?


----------



## existentialist (Dec 16, 2021)

elbows said:


> How many times do I have to bore on about the actual hospital data regarding vaccination status in order for people to stop saying that?
> 
> eg:        #327


Yes, OK - I was focusing on the semantics of the statement I responded to, rather than the numbers. But I could have been a little more careful...


----------



## Thora (Dec 16, 2021)

My work colleague is driving to Poland for Christmas today - seeing elderly parents and family for the first time in two years.  They need to drive through France & Germany on the way.  I really hope they make it.


----------



## elbows (Dec 16, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know most in hospital are vaccinated, but I am sure there's been reports of most in ITC are unvaccinated, is that right?


People that should know keep saying that yes, but I havent been able to find the right data for myself in regards intensive care vaccine status. And there was a slightly different agenda compared to whats now coming into play when some of them kept saying it in the press months and weeks ago. I do have death figures, and when thinking about serious illness we have to consider both deaths and intensive care, since some people arent deemed suitable for intensive care. Likewise plenty of unvaccinated people are younger and are intensive care candidates, so what you have heard about that might still have truth to it even when other measurements such as general hospitalisation and death point in the other direction.

Given the properties of Omicron and what it seems to do to vaccine protection, I'll also need data on who had 3rd doses/boosters in this data in future, in order to even begin to make proper sense of it.

All of this was expected anyway, and some authority figures pointed that out well in advance of it becoming the case. Its just the inevitable consequence of the basic maths involving the very high proportion of the population that are vaccinated, and the below 100% protection offered.


----------



## elbows (Dec 16, 2021)

> Israel will designate the UK and Denmark as countries on its Covid-19 “red list” at midnight due to concern over the spread of the Omicron variant.
> 
> Israeli citizens and permanent residents are forbidden from travelling to “red” countries from Israel, unless they get permission from the government.
> 
> ...



Thats from the BBC live updates page, 15:41 entry  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59679703


----------



## bimble (Dec 16, 2021)

elbows said:


> How many times do I have to bore on about the actual hospital data regarding vaccination status in order for people to stop saying that?
> 
> eg:        #327


someone made a diagram that really helped me with this the other day. Two circles, one vaccinated people one much smaller unvaxxed population, the hospitalised a third circle overlapping them both , Bisecting the unvaxxed significantly and only a small corner of the vaccinated - you can see easily then how it works, even if you’re not good with numbers and probability like me.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 16, 2021)

Thora said:


> My work colleague is driving to Poland for Christmas today - seeing elderly parents and family for the first time in two years.  They need to drive through France & Germany on the way.  I really hope they make it.


They will, rules are coming in for arrivals at Midnight (23:00 GMT) tomorrow.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 16, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Well considering France were reporting similar case numbers to the UK, until yesterday, despite running under half the tests per million compared to the UK, and omicron is already spreading in Europe, it does seem more like part of Macron's 'bash & Brits' policy/election campaign,


I have a feeling there will be a retaliation in kind which would more than likely scupper my shitemas plan.


----------



## 8ball (Dec 16, 2021)

Bloody French, reacting dickishly to our dickishness...


----------



## scifisam (Dec 16, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> they are not flooding the hospitals. A lot of elective surgery is denied to obese people that don't make an effort to lose weight.



Not for moral reasons, though, for clinical reasons to do with anaesthetics and recovery from surgery.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 16, 2021)

scifisam said:


> Not for moral reasons, though, for clinical reasons to do with anaesthetics and recovery from surgery.


With limited ventilators, the triage process will presumably mean someone will have to decide on the criteria to get one. I’m not sure how moral it is to delay people’s cancer surgery to free up ICU beds for anti-vaxers. 

I’m not as heartless as I sound, but I think society has a right to prioritise people who have done their best to maximise their chances of survival.

Here in Latin America I people have genuine concerns about being left on the street to die if they get sick with this. Vaccine hesitancy seems to be a first world problem. Send excess doses to Africa where they would be appreciated


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 16, 2021)

Unfortunately the NHS is tending towards a Latin American model under the Tories.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 16, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> well yes, this thread is about overseas holidays



Have you ditched the van and Great Dane?


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 17, 2021)

Eurostar booking collapsing into uselessness in front of my eyes ffs


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 17, 2021)

And just checked the French governement website and there has been another update today, isolation on arrival is now 10 days, can be lifted after 48 hours with proof of (yet another) PCR or LFT, and where am I gonna get one on Christmas day
I was only planning to be there for 84 hours

guess it's time to call my mum :[


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 17, 2021)

So, finally got through to my mum, and I won't be going.
Then the bit about "I'll never see you again before I die", except she is 82 and a lot more active than me and will more than likely outlive me.
She did have a good rant about "their" incompetence and how she is going to sue them for depriving her of her liberties, I think she is turning into a rebel in her old age.
Now to cancel/get vouchers for my eurostar bookings, at least I can stop stressing.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 17, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> She did have a good rant about "their" incompetence and how she is going to sue them for depriving her of her liberties, I think she is turning into a rebel in her old age.


Go for it wemakeyousoundb 's Mum


----------



## bimble (Dec 17, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Vaccine hesitancy seems to be a first world problem. Send excess doses to Africa where they would be appreciated



That’s very much not the case at all. Sadly. It’s a huge issue all over the place. But that’s for another thread.

I note that there are reports of huge queues at Dover as thousands of people tried to get to France today.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 17, 2021)

bimble said:


> That’s very much not the case at all. Sadly. It’s a huge issue all over the place. But that’s for another thread.


Are you sure? I’ve not met anyone that is anti-vac here in Brazil. São Paulo state is now over 100% first dose vaccinated (we are well overdue a census, and you can get done in other states)


----------



## bimble (Dec 18, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Are you sure? I’ve not met anyone that is anti-vac here in Brazil. São Paulo state is now over 100% first dose vaccinated (we are well overdue a census, and you can get done in other states)


yep, interesting about brazil, but thats very much an outlier. I only know in any detail about a couple of specific places but very rough overview in here for instance The Next Challenge to Vaccinating Africa: Overcoming Skepticism








						Vaccine hesitancy big threat for India, says top vaccine maker SII
					

Indian states are sitting on more than 200 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines due to a reluctance among people to get inoculated, the chief executive of top vaccine maker the Serum Institute of India (SII) said on Wednesday.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## Yossarian (Dec 18, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Are you sure? I’ve not met anyone that is anti-vac here in Brazil. São Paulo state is now over 100% first dose vaccinated (we are well overdue a census, and you can get done in other states)



There's a lot of hesitancy in east Asia - people who don't trust their governments often don't trust vaccination campaigns - and people who don't trust China don't trust the Sinovac and Sinopharm vaccines. 

In the Philippines, American evangelical Christian groups have had some success spreading anti-vax shit - and in Indonesia, a lot of people believe most vaccines are not halal, though the country's top religious authority has said otherwise.









						What’s behind Southeast Asia’s hesitancy towards China-made vaccines?
					

Beijing has supplied 190 million doses of its home-grown inoculations to the region, but public perceptions towards Sinovac and Sinopharm are negative.




					www.scmp.com
				












						Concerns Rise Over Indonesia’s Sputtering Virus Vaccinations
					

Vaccine hesitancy in the predominantly Muslim country can be traced to apprehensions that shots other than the Chinese-made Sinovac are not “halal.”



					thediplomat.com


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 18, 2021)

A French epidemiologist was interviewed on BBC News, talking about how fast omicron was taking off in France, she said they are only a day or two behind the UK. When asked what impact the closing of the border will have, her reply, 'just about zero'.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 18, 2021)

bimble said:


> That’s very much not the case at all. Sadly. It’s a huge issue all over the place. But that’s for another thread.
> 
> I note that there are reports of huge queues at Dover as thousands of people tried to get to France today.


eurostar queues last night to go to france


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 18, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Have you ditched the van and Great Dane?



Scooby does go abroad. There is a  film where the gang  go to Australia.  I've seen it and it's shit


----------



## Riklet (Dec 19, 2021)

Im wondering now what my chance of not being able to travel to Madeira is in Jan...

Im going for a month so will still be worth it even with some quarantine (maybe not 14 days!) but also depends on whether further restrictions are imposed here and/or in Portugal. It seems so uncertain and it's only 2 weeks off!


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 26, 2022)

Ok so we're sick of the UK. How do I travel at this point and where can I go with the minimum of fuckery?


----------



## miss direct (Jan 26, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Ok so we're sick of the UK. How do I travel at this point and where can I go with the minimum of fuckery?


Turkey. 0 tests. Loads of covid though.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jan 26, 2022)

miss direct said:


> Turkey. 0 tests. Loads of covid though.


Missed the snow now though


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 26, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Ok so we're sick of the UK. How do I travel at this point and where can I go with the minimum of fuckery?




Germany no tests, Spain, (including Canaries) no tests.


----------



## nagapie (Jan 26, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Germany no tests, Spain, (including Canaries) no tests.


If the countries don't ask for tests, do the airlines still make you do them?


----------



## Flavour (Jan 26, 2022)

after missing two christmasses in a row in the UK i am now planning on returning for easter


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 26, 2022)

nagapie said:


> If the countries don't ask for tests, do the airlines still make you do them?



No, the airlines only ensure you comply with the entry requirements of the country you are travelling to/via.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 26, 2022)

Flavour said:


> after missing two christmasses in a row in the UK i am now planning on returning for easter



No tests needed for UK from 11th February.

Italy still wants antigen test in the 24 hours prior to arrival from the UK, may well change in the upcoming months though.


----------



## miss direct (Jan 26, 2022)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> Missed the snow now though


Snow in plenty of places there if that's what you're after.


----------



## nagapie (Jan 26, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> No, the airlines only ensure you comply with the entry requirements of the country you are travelling to/via.


I have to keep my fingers crossed that SA does away with tests before April. I can't afford the extra cost and it takes two people to hold down my youngest to forcibly test him.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 26, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Germany no tests, Spain, (including Canaries) no tests.


The PCR test for Portugal will be reviewed in Feb after the elections Jan 30th


----------



## sparkybird (Jan 26, 2022)

No tests to enter Mexico and has been this way since the start of the pandemic


----------



## Riklet (Jan 28, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> The PCR test for Portugal will be reviewed in Feb after the elections Jan 30th



Good to know.

Also worth pointing out that the autonomous regions of Azores and Madeira make their own rules. So I flew to Madeira a few weeks ago (here for a month) and didnt need to provide a PCR or a lab-based LFT like I would have for mainland Portugal. This is if you're fully vaccinated, of course. I did a LFT at home anyway like a responsible citizen. Madeira is awesome btw. 

The plane was maybe almost half full which seemed quite busy. Perhaps one of the busier flights, as it was a Saturday.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 28, 2022)

I was talking to a friend the other day who I've always known was probably anti-vax (we just don't talk about it; she's not stridently telling other people not to vaccinate), and we were talking about how much we all wanted to go abroad and just get some fucking sun. My friend said she was looking towards Spain because they don't require vaccinations to travel, and I said that I'd prefer to go somewhere that did require vaccinations. I'm CEV and although I do take risks, don't permanently isolate etc - this conversation was in a pub - for a holiday I'd prefer somewhere there were some protections in place. 

Interesting difference in POVs there.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jan 28, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> The PCR test for Portugal will be reviewed in Feb after the elections Jan 30th


We went to Portugal..you don’t need a PCR test..a 30€ antigen test, easily available at a pharmacy in Paris, is all that was required. I found it reassuring that everyone on the flight was vaccinated and tested.
Restaurants were good at checking vaccination passports.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jan 28, 2022)

sparkybird said:


> No tests to enter Mexico and has been this way since the start of the pandemic


And god help you if you get I’ll there


----------



## sparkybird (Jan 28, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> And god help you if you get I’ll there


Actually I have plenty of friends there (both expats and Mexican) and we chat regularly about the situation in the UK vs in Mexico.


----------



## Riklet (Jan 28, 2022)

Spain you def _do_ need to be double vaccinated apparently. Including 12-15s. And from 1 Feb your final dose must have been within the last 9 months. Proof of recovery is not valid.  Lots of Brits could be stung by this soon.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jan 29, 2022)

I've just booked to goto Arles & Nice in March on Eurostar/TGV. I guess it could all go wrong but as it stands it's just a pre departure PCR which doesn't seem too much hassle.
The uncertainty will continue all year won't it?


----------



## mx wcfc (Jan 29, 2022)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I've just booked to goto Arles & Nice in March on Eurostar/TGV. I guess it could all go wrong but as it stands it's just a pre departure PCR which doesn't seem too much hassle.
> The uncertainty will continue all year won't it?


If you are in Arles, Avignon is worth a day trip (short train trip), and try to do a tour of the Carmargue too.


----------



## miss direct (Jan 29, 2022)

If anyone does need to get a pre flight PCR test for travel, it's now only £35 with Randox if you pick it up.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 31, 2022)

Well I am venturing to the continent in a couple of weeks.

Does anyone have recent experience of what travel insurance generally will & won't cover at the moment? For example, is cancellation cover, that would cover scenarios where a positive test results in either not being able to leave the UK or getting stuck in some other country, something you can only get at great expense?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Well I am venturing to the continent in a couple of weeks.
> 
> Does anyone have recent experience of what travel insurance generally will & won't cover at the moment? For example, is cancellation cover, that would cover scenarios where a positive test results in either not being able to leave the UK or getting stuck in some other country, something you can only get at great expense?



The Post Office do a pretty comprehensive travel insurance policy for not much money.


----------



## LDC (Jan 31, 2022)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I've just booked to goto Arles & Nice in March on Eurostar/TGV. I guess it could all go wrong but as it stands it's just a pre departure PCR which doesn't seem too much hassle.
> The uncertainty will continue all year won't it?



Same DJWrongspeed, I'm also going to south of France mid-March on Eurostar. Hopefully testing requirements might be gone by then...?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 31, 2022)

Is the PCR test for entering France from any country, or just from the UK?


----------



## smmudge (Jan 31, 2022)

I found Churchill good for comprehensive insurance. Bit pricier but will cover any cancellation if you test positive pre-trip, and accommodation costs if you get a positive while out there. M&S also similar but more expensive. 

When I asked The Post Office, they said they didn't offer anything that would cover accommodation costs if you get positive on a trip (my biggest fear! Though a low risk now there's no tests to come back to the UK).


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jan 31, 2022)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Same DJWrongspeed, I'm also going to south of France mid-March on Eurostar. Hopefully testing requirements might be gone by then...?


Yes hopefully, but it's not really a huge hassel I reckon especially as coming back should be test free.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 1, 2022)

Hope none of the AntiVax mob like Spain 









						Spain's new entry rules for Brits kick off today in blow ahead of half term
					

New Spain travel rules for Brits come into force today which include requiring a booster jab if your Covid vaccination doesn't fall within a certain window of validity




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 1, 2022)

Badgers said:


> Hope none of the AntiVax mob like Spain
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wait hold on



> Earlier this month, easyJet issued a warning for Brits as Ibiza and Majorca are introducing new limits on alcoholic drinks for all-inclusive holidays on the Balearic Islands.
> 
> easyJet issues a statement for its passengers explaining: "Due to a change in Spanish law which affects certain resorts in the Balearic islands, alcoholic drinks are now limited to three per person at lunch and dinner as part of the all inclusive basis."



three drinks? and you have to have a meal?


----------



## scifisam (Feb 1, 2022)

Badgers said:


> Hope none of the AntiVax mob like Spain
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm, that could be a problem for people who aren't antivax too. I had my booster in September, so by June I won't be allowed in to Spain. And you can't get another booster privately so it's not just an extra cost, it's an impossibility.

I was vaguely thinking of a holiday in September or something, and am more than happy to get an extra vaccination, but if I can't, well, I can't.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 1, 2022)

It's just that if you had your 2nd dose >270 days ago, then you must also have had a booster, isn't it? In other words the 270 day limit doesn't also apply to the time you had the booster.


----------



## scifisam (Feb 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It's just that if you had your 2nd dose >270 days ago, then you must also have had a booster, isn't it? In other words the 270 day limit doesn't also apply to the time you had the booster.



I had my booster in September. Surely it's the time that makes the actual difference in how likely you are to be infectious, not whether it was called a booster or not?


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Feb 1, 2022)

sparkybird said:


> No tests to enter Mexico and has been this way since the start of the pandemic


I’ve got to go to mexico tonight…it is very convenient having no tests, notwithstanding what I said before


----------



## sparkybird (Feb 2, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> I’ve got to go to mexico tonight…it is very convenient having no tests, notwithstanding what I said before


Have a safe trip. I'm here already, fastest ever time through customs!


----------



## smmudge (Feb 2, 2022)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Wait hold on
> 
> 
> 
> three drinks? and you have to have a meal?



Had to look this up as my sister in law and a group of friends have booked Majorca in June for her bday. She would be devastated to hear about any restrictions like that!! But it looks like it's only a few resorts ie Magaluf and San Antonio, not everywhere in the Balearics.

In the news again (has been the case since January 2020) because of the recent Easyjet warning, why can't journalists find out the actual restrictions they're talking about before reporting on it?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 2, 2022)

smmudge said:


> Had to look this up as my sister in law and a group of friends have booked Majorca in June for her bday. She would be devastated to hear about any restrictions like that!! But it looks like it's only a few resorts ie Magaluf and San Antonio, not everywhere in the Balearics.



It's a load of bollocks anyway. Can you seriously see bar or waiting staff counting the number of drinks each Brit has with their lunch and cutting them off after 3?

They won't give a toss and there'd probably be riots if they did.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 2, 2022)

Especially when you forked out for an “all inclusive”!!


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 2, 2022)

I think this thread needs to be renamed "Where are you going on holiday this summer?"


----------



## MBV (Feb 2, 2022)

Yeah or split


----------



## planetgeli (Feb 2, 2022)

I've cracked. Booked Montenegro for Easter. I'm made to go to work now every day mid schoolchild pandemic. Don't see how some time abroad is any more risky than that.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Feb 2, 2022)

sparkybird said:


> Have a safe trip. I'm here already, fastest ever time through customs!


Have a wonderful time. I’ve just arrived in Mexico City to a message that a client I was working with last weekend has tested positive…I guess I’ll get a test when I get to Ciudad del Carmen (a far cry from Playa del Carmen)


----------



## mx wcfc (Feb 2, 2022)

Subject to persuading B-i-Ls to look after M-i-L, we are planning to go to Croatia for a week.  I fancy Dubrovnik.  

We are growing apart holiday wise.  I want to sit by the pool soaking up the sun, before heading off in the evening to find local bars, with interesting beers.  Mrs mx wants culture, history, museums, and bed by 10.30 cos we're worn out from walking around.  Dubrovnik sounds like a reasonable compromise.


----------



## smmudge (Feb 2, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> We are growing apart holiday wise.  I want to sit by the pool soaking up the sun, before heading off in the evening to find local bars, with interesting beers.  Mrs mx wants culture, history, museums, and bed by 10.30 cos we're worn out from walking around.  Dubrovnik sounds like a reasonable compromise.



Plenty of places you can do both  Dubrovnik is a great shout. Lots of beaches with the resort feel (we liked around Uvala Lapad beach) in easy distance of all the history!


----------



## mx wcfc (Feb 2, 2022)

smmudge said:


> Plenty of places you can do both  Dubrovnik is a great shout. Lots of beaches with the resort feel (we liked around Uvala Lapad beach) in easy distance of all the history!


And I've just found that NK GOSC 1919 Dubrovnik play in the regional third tier of Croatian football, and have home games on 23 April, 30 April and 14 May.  

I must start pinning down dates with mrs mx.  I have a groundhopper mate who will be furious that someone he knows has ticked a Croatian 3rd tier ground.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 2, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> And I've just found that NK GOSC 1919 Dubrovnik play in the regional third tier of Croatian football, and have home games on 23 April, 30 April and 14 May.
> 
> I must start pinning down dates with mrs mx.  I have a groundhopper mate who will be furious that someone he knows has ticked a Croatian 3rd tier ground.


is a groundhopper similar to a train spotter?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 2, 2022)

I actually looked quite a bit for package holidays last night, given that (a) I really need to just fuck off somewhere and (b) I had a naive expectation that package holidays would have all the covid restrictions etc worked out to avoid that stress on my part, but the latter really doesn't seem to be the case. I checked on e.g. restrictions in Thailand and did the packages mention anything connected? did they fuck.

Half of them seem to be to the UAE anyway and fucked if I'm going there, I have some standards.


----------



## mx wcfc (Feb 2, 2022)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> is a groundhopper similar to a train spotter?


Pretty much, Yeah, except football grounds don't move as fast as trains.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 2, 2022)

I haven’t been on holiday for ten years. I don’t really know how to do holidays. I don’t know how to be with other people for a such long time if I’m going with friends or family. I don’t know how to be on my own for so long if I’m alone. 
Just thinking about it for a minute plagues me with questions. How will I sleep? Do I drink my way through it or find a local source of illicit weed and risk being banged up abroad? What if there’s an annoying noise at night? What if it’s too hot? How do you sleep with A/C and/or a ceiling fan on?


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 2, 2022)

I do need a fucking holiday all the same


----------



## existentialist (Feb 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I haven’t been on holiday for ten years. I don’t really know how to do holidays. I don’t know how to be with other people for a such long time if I’m going with friends or family. I don’t know how to be on my own for so long if I’m alone.
> Just thinking about it for a minute plagues me with questions. How will I sleep? Do I drink my way through it or find a local source of illicit weed and risk being banged up abroad? What if there’s an annoying noise at night? What if it’s too hot? How do you sleep with A/C and/or a ceiling fan on?


TBF, a holiday (or several) would be an excellent way to explore the answers to some of these questions.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I haven’t been on holiday for ten years. I don’t really know how to do holidays. I don’t know how to be with other people for a such long time if I’m going with friends or family. I don’t know how to be on my own for so long if I’m alone.
> Just thinking about it for a minute plagues me with questions. How will I sleep? Do I drink my way through it or find a local source of illicit weed and risk being banged up abroad? What if there’s an annoying noise at night? What if it’s too hot? How do you sleep with A/C and/or a ceiling fan on?



It sounds massively stressful and best avoided.


----------



## mx wcfc (Feb 2, 2022)

8ball said:


> It sounds massively stressful and best avoided.


I should probably confess that, for this precise reason, I have never been on a holiday that I have actually organised myself.


----------



## existentialist (Feb 2, 2022)

I think I am going to make my first holiday, whenever it happens, a trip to Paris. I've probably been watching too much "Tim Traveller"


----------



## teuchter (Feb 2, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Subject to persuading B-i-Ls to look after M-i-L, we are planning to go to Croatia for a week.  I fancy Dubrovnik.
> 
> We are growing apart holiday wise.  I want to sit by the pool soaking up the sun, before heading off in the evening to find local bars, with interesting beers.  Mrs mx wants culture, history, museums, and bed by 10.30 cos we're worn out from walking around.  Dubrovnik sounds like a reasonable compromise.


It's allowable for couples to not go on holiday together if they want different things.


----------



## mx wcfc (Feb 2, 2022)

Yeah, the plan is that we do this break, then my wife and daughter do a similar away trip.  While I go off in my van to festivals.   #


----------



## spanglechick (Feb 3, 2022)

I need a holiday so very badly, but I’m terrifyingly broke, single, and disabled.  This makes me quite sad.  Because by the time I’m out of the economic hole, at least one of the other problems will be worse.


----------



## existentialist (Feb 3, 2022)

I _think_ I need a holiday, but as someone for whom holidays were never very much of A Thing, it's not something that generally occurs to me...


----------



## kebabking (Feb 3, 2022)

Perhaps approach it as seeing that a holiday is not 'a thing', rather that it's whatever you want it to be.

I've got a mate who lives in the Mess, single, no kids, and his holiday is booking a cottage in the middle of nowhere, driving up with a pile of books & some recipes he wants to try, and barely leaving the house. He's perfectly happy if it pisses it down for a fortnight...

We're going to Norfolk for Feb half term, Dorset for Easter, and either Northumberland or Anglesey in the summer.

Iceland will probably be our first overseas holiday since the _Before Time's_ - October half term we think, fly from Birmingham, airb'nb in Rekjavik.

I'd rather lick my own arse than sit on a beach for two weeks...


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 3, 2022)

Well, hoping I can go see my mum in France in a couple of months, but sure won't be betting on it. fingers crossed and all that.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 4, 2022)

I really don't understand the travel guidance on the government website. Asking for the OH who's travelling in from Brazil on Sunday (not fully vaccinated).



> Before you travel to England – not fully vaccinated​Before you travel to England you must:
> 
> take a COVID-19 test – *to be taken in the 2 days before you travel to England*



What does "in the 2 days mean"? Does that mean within 48 hours of the first flight, or any time "in the 2 days" before. Because reading that literally means it would be fine to take a PCR on a Friday afternoon, for a flight on Sunday evening. But that technically falls outside of 48 hours. But it doesn't say "48 hours"

I don't trust how vague it is. Can anyone advise? 

Bahnhof Strasse


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

__





						Travel to England from another country during coronavirus (COVID-19)
					

You do not need to complete a UK passenger locator form before you travel, take any COVID-19 tests or quarantine when you arrive in England.




					www.gov.uk
				







> When to take your test​
> You must take the test in the 2 days before your service to England departs.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## zora (Feb 4, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> I really don't understand the travel guidance on the government website. Asking for the OH who's travelling in from Brazil on Sunday (not fully vaccinated).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a further link on the site to this
Coronavirus (COVID-19) testing before you travel to England , and it says specifically (my bold)
"You must take the test in the 2 days before your service to England departs.

For example, if you travel directly to England on Friday, you could take a test *any time on the Wednesday, Thursday or Friday*. The test result must be available for boarding.

If your journey to England is a multi-leg journey, you can take the test in the 2 days before the start of the first leg"

So imu can be slightly outside a 48 hour window. But maybe someone with more practical experience will be along to clarify.
It's certainly always a bit nail-biting, travelling under covid rules and wondering how to apply them; best of luck!


----------



## klang (Feb 4, 2022)

wrt 'needing a holiday': Do I actually need one? Not so much, Covid angst and travel restrictions (or the lack of) would make it stressful enough for me to not want to do it. 
GF and I spoke about it the other day - we do need something to break the routine and to look forward to. It's a bit tedious for us both atm, the same thing day in, day out. Work, child care, trying not to catch covid. We are bored of it and could do with something else....


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 4, 2022)

zora said:


> There is a further link on the site to this
> Coronavirus (COVID-19) testing before you travel to England , and it says specifically (my bold)
> "You must take the test in the 2 days before your service to England departs.
> 
> ...



Ah thats very helpful. Thank you. 

I wish they'd have just made this clearer on the main page!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 4, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> I really don't understand the travel guidance on the government website. Asking for the OH who's travelling in from Brazil on Sunday (not fully vaccinated).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




In the two days prior to travel, so flying from Brazil at 5pm Wednesday, you may take the *antigen *test anytime from 0001 Monday. Doesn't have to be a PCR test.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 4, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> In the two days prior to travel, so flying from Brazil at 5pm Wednesday, you may take the *antigen *test anytime from 0001 Monday. Doesn't have to be a PCR test.



Thanks Bahnhof. Do you still advise a PCR test to be safe or is an antigen one fine now?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 4, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Thanks Bahnhof. Do you still advise a PCR test to be safe or is an antigen one fine now?



Antigen is fine, it's cheaper (£15 vs £50) and comes through in under 30 minutes, rather than 24 hours. Some unscrupulous people says if it's positive you can keep taking them until you get a negative, which you will...


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

klang said:


> wrt 'needing a holiday': Do I actually need one? Not so much, Covid angst and travel restrictions (or the lack of) would make it stressful enough for me to not want to do it.



Not having been abroad for two years, it's easy to forget there's actually a fair bit of "work" in planning travel. Currently I'm getting things organised for a trip to Europe, and there's certainly a mild level of stress about making sure I don't fall foul of any Covid regulations. What would normally be pretty straightforward involves checking the rules for crossing 5 different country/country border combinations, with a slight worry that any of them might change during the time I'm on the move.


----------



## klang (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Not having been abroad for two years, it's easy to forget there's actually a fair bit of "work" in planning travel. Currently I'm getting things organised for a trip to Europe, and there's certainly a mild level of stress about making sure I don't fall foul of any Covid regulations. What would normally be pretty straightforward involves checking the rules for crossing 5 different country/country border combinations, with a slight worry that any of them might change during the time I'm on the move.


I went to Europe in Dec and the build up to the actual journey was well stressful. Still, we got there and back.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

klang said:


> I went to Europe in Dec and the build up to the actual journey was well stressful. Still, we got there and back.


A couple of people who've travelled recently have told me that having stressed quite a bit about getting all the paperwork in order, in practice they were waved through various border controls without anyone seeming to care very much.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> A couple of people who've travelled recently have told me that having stressed quite a bit about getting all the paperwork in order, in practice they were waved through various border controls without anyone seeming to care very much.




This is very much the case for many places, but you still need all the documentation as of course anything you don't have will be demanded...


----------



## existentialist (Feb 4, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Perhaps approach it as seeing that a holiday is not 'a thing', rather that it's whatever you want it to be.
> 
> I've got a mate who lives in the Mess, single, no kids, and his holiday is booking a cottage in the middle of nowhere, driving up with a pile of books & some recipes he wants to try, and barely leaving the house. He's perfectly happy if it pisses it down for a fortnight...
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's good advice. I've certainly never found the beach holiday thing appealing, and I'd much rather do something that involves activity, or discovering something. I do have the slight advantage that I don't have to worry about family holiday type stuff, so I can pretty much please myself, which probably translates into more basic accommodation, much simpler travel logistics, and a lot more flexibility about what I do when I get there. I quite enjoy those YouTube channels where someone goes off and explores somewhere, and, TBH, there's quite a lot of places in the UK where I could do that. But I do like France, so going and visiting bits of that which I haven't previously done (I've really only "done" Brittany) does appeal - I speak the language a bit, and I like the culture.

And I do rather like the idea of going off somewhere on my own, and making whatever connections I make while I'm there - I don't mind sitting in a bar on my own and chatting to strangers, or just rocking up somewhere and seeing what happens.


----------



## kebabking (Feb 4, 2022)

existentialist I had a holiday on my own - kids and Mrs K went on holiday with her family - a couple of years ago, it was absolutely great, and one of the things I enjoyed enormously was just chatting to random folk I met. I had a lovely chat with a woman on a bus, all the way from Berwick-upon-Tweed to Alnwick.

Never met her before, never will again. It was just 'nice'.


----------



## LDC (Feb 4, 2022)

existentialist said:


> I think I am going to make my first holiday, whenever it happens, a trip to Paris. I've probably been watching too much "Tim Traveller"



Since this seems to have turned into a holiday thread, if you go to Paris you must go here undefined existentialist!
It's just the most incredible bookshop, can spend a whole day in the place. Also the catacombs! And the Memorial to the Deported Mémorial des Martyrs de la Déportation - Wikipedia


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> undefined existentialist!


Existentialism is stressful enough without it becoming undefined on top of everything else.


----------



## existentialist (Feb 4, 2022)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Since this seems to have turned into a holiday thread, if you go to Paris you must go here undefined existentialist!
> It's just the most incredible bookshop, can spend a whole day in the place. Also the catacombs! And the Memorial to the Deported Mémorial des Martyrs de la Déportation - Wikipedia


Also the old Bastille line, which is now a rather picturesque walk


----------



## sparkybird (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Not having been abroad for two years, it's easy to forget there's actually a fair bit of "work" in planning travel. Currently I'm getting things organised for a trip to Europe, and there's certainly a mild level of stress about making sure I don't fall foul of any Covid regulations. What would normally be pretty straightforward involves checking the rules for crossing 5 different country/country border combinations, with a slight worry that any of them might change during the time I'm on the move.


General advice is that you need to be flexible, so that if situations/rules change or for example you get COVID, you can adapt eg paying for extra tests, accommodation, new travel tickets. If you HAVE to be somewhere on an exact date, this can get stressful.
Have a safe and enjoyable trip


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## Me76 (Feb 4, 2022)

I think I've said on here before that I'm a city breaker.  One or two nights somewhere, on my own doing tourist stuff and hopefully finding an interesting bar in the evenings.

For that little amount of time it's been totally off the table to do that abroad for me since COVID and I've done it in this country when it's been allowed.

 I am sort of thinking that I may be able to do it with no testing (depending on the country) soon.  But I'm thinking June and not even going to start planning until late April.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 5, 2022)

existentialist said:


> ... I speak the language a bit, and I like the culture.
> 
> ...


As a native french let me tell you 
you're a wrong'un

Planing on going to visit my mum and family (possibly some friends too) but it'll be a lasminute.com type of thing with whatever rules are in place and hopefully no curve ball appearing at the last hurdle.


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## pseudonarcissus (Feb 5, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Ah thats very helpful. Thank you.
> 
> I wish they'd have just made this clearer on the main page!


Has the airline not been in touch? they will be checking the test certificate. I found Air France were very clear with what was required


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 5, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Has the airline not been in touch? they will be checking the test certificate. I found Air France were very clear with what was required



Not specifically, but LATAM are fairly useless about that kind of thing IME. She got a lateral flow test done earlier from Araujo and a negative certificate in English and Portuguese for the Sunday evening flight. I've given her the UK govt travel advice links above in case anyone needs to check too. Hopefully that'll be alright 🤞


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 7, 2022)

Update. It was fine in the end.

However she did have to produce the UK government website with the 'within 2 days of departure' wording to refute the airline official who insisted that the negative antigen test was only valid for 24 hours. It really is annoying having to make sure you're more informed than the people whose job it is to actually know these things.


----------



## Cloo (Feb 9, 2022)

A lot of people on twitter saying everywhere else will now refuse to have Brits because of the removal of isolation, though I'd imagine insisting on a test before travel would probably be more in their interests than an outright ban. But depends how bad it gets here, I suppose...


----------



## teuchter (Feb 9, 2022)

Cloo said:


> A lot of people on twitter saying everywhere else will now refuse to have Brits because of the removal of isolation,


Sounds like nonsense to me - what difference would it make, especially if there's a test to travel.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Feb 11, 2022)

teuchter said:


> A couple of people who've travelled recently have told me that having stressed quite a bit about getting all the paperwork in order, in practice they were waved through various border controls without anyone seeming to care very much.


Yes that's mine and friends experience. Everyone is bored of all the form checking.
If there was some dangerous variant rising up then it would be really important and then why not just close the borders?


----------



## Brainaddict (Feb 23, 2022)

Does anyone have experience getting a PCR test at an airport? They say up to 3hr turnaround time, so it's a bit of a ballache to arrive that early but I have an afternoon flight so it is possible. It seems more reliable than trying to get one delivered that I need to take within 48hrs of flight and then get the result for.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 23, 2022)

Brainaddict said:


> Does anyone have experience getting a PCR test at an airport? They say up to 3hr turnaround time, so it's a bit of a ballache to arrive that early but I have an afternoon flight so it is possible. It seems more reliable than trying to get one delivered that I need to take within 48hrs of flight and then get the result for.


Won't your destination accept an LFD test?


----------



## miss direct (Feb 23, 2022)

Brainaddict said:


> Does anyone have experience getting a PCR test at an airport? They say up to 3hr turnaround time, so it's a bit of a ballache to arrive that early but I have an afternoon flight so it is possible. It seems more reliable than trying to get one delivered that I need to take within 48hrs of flight and then get the result for.


I have now used Randox posted tests 3 times for travel - only costs £30ish now and I've always had the results back well in time. Couldn't be bothered to get to the airport so early and pay their silly prices.


----------



## Brainaddict (Feb 23, 2022)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> Won't your destination accept an LFD test?


Nope. PCR within 48 hrs only. Basically I have the choice of doing a trip into central London two days before for results the day after, or going to the airport 3hrs before check-in. Both are kind of a pain in the arse. I'm trying to work out which will be less stressful, given that no-one will totally guarantee the turnaround time.


----------



## Brainaddict (Feb 23, 2022)

miss direct said:


> I have now used Randox posted tests 3 times for travel - only costs £30ish now and I've always had the results back well in time. Couldn't be bothered to get to the airport so early and pay their silly prices.


Was that also with a 48hr limit on when you could take the test? My concern is that my flight is 1530 on Wed. If I take the test 1600 on Monday I'm concerned it might not get to the lab by the beginning of Tuesday. In which case it will be cutting it a bit fine.


----------



## miss direct (Feb 23, 2022)

Yes. And I had the same worries, but it's been fine every time. The labs appear to work overnight, since each time, I got an email around midnight saying the sample had been received, and had the result/certificate by the time I work up.


----------



## Brainaddict (Feb 23, 2022)

miss direct said:


> Yes. And I had the same worries, but it's been fine every time. The labs appear to work overnight, since each time, I got an email around midnight saying the sample had been received, and had the result/certificate by the time I work up.


Thanks, this is good to know. Maybe I can do this then, and have the airport one as a backup if the postal one doesn't arrive (just to reduce my stress about it).

Think I was put off by their website being confusing. I'm not sure if I post it or if I have to go to a 'dropbox', which are nowhere near me.


----------



## miss direct (Feb 23, 2022)

This is how I did it the last time, which was the cheapest. 
Ordered test well in advance. Had to go and pick it up from a random newsagents the other side of the city. Took test 48 hours before, took a taxi to the dropbox. That's all.


----------



## nagapie (Mar 3, 2022)

I am flying to SA in 4 weeks to see my family who I have not seen in 4 years. I am crapping myself. I am travelling with my two young children one of whom has some additional needs. Normally this journey would be hellish but with the added Covid stresses, it's even worse. Can someone explain to me how I get the testing done before we fly, I definitely don't want to do it in the airport!
We have to do PCRs 72hrs before our flight which is at 10pm. I guess I'll get them done 48hours in advance, already a nightmare as my children will be in school and that's a working day for me. How do I ensure I get a reputable company that  will turn it around with the correct documentation? How do I avoid having to travel across London to do the tests? Is there any way to do the tests in your own home, do you have to record yourself doing them?
Help!


----------



## Jimmy Don't (Mar 3, 2022)

nagapie said:


> I am flying to SA in 4 weeks to see my family who I have not seen in 4 years. I am crapping myself. I am travelling with my two young children one of whom has some additional needs. Normally this journey would be hellish but with the added Covid stresses, it's even worse. Can someone explain to me how I get the testing done before we fly, I definitely don't want to do it in the airport!
> We have to do PCRs 72hrs before our flight which is at 10pm. I guess I'll get them done 48hours in advance, already a nightmare as my children will be in school and that's a working day for me. How do I ensure I get a reputable company that  will turn it around with the correct documentation? How do I avoid having to travel across London to do the tests? Is there any way to do the tests in your own home, do you have to record yourself doing them?
> Help!


I've used Randox a few times and always got the results back as timescales advertised etc


----------



## nagapie (Mar 3, 2022)

Jimmy Don't said:


> I've used Randox a few times and always got the results back as timescales advertised etc


How does it work? Exactly.


----------



## Jimmy Don't (Mar 3, 2022)

nagapie said:


> How does it work? Exactly.


Order the kits - do the tests within the prescribed timescales and then drop off to one off their drop boxes by a certain time and you get the results via email by midnight the next day. If you order the kit by click and collect they are £35


----------



## teuchter (Mar 3, 2022)

I only had to to an LFT (for Eurostar to Belgium) but I used this company who also do PCRs:









						PCR Fit To Fly Test London | BIOGROUP UK
					

Get your PCR Fit to Fly certificate by booking your appointment for a PCR Fit To Fly Test in clinic or order your test to be delivered at home.




					www.biogroup-laboratory.co.uk
				




I largely chose them because they have a "lab" close to Victoria station, easy to get to from Brixton. I did click & collect a couple of days ahead instead of having it posted to me, just so that I knew I had it in my poesession instead of waiting for unreliable deliveries.

For the LFT all I had to do was email them back with a photo of the completed test and my passport etc, and the certificate was then provided within a couple of hours. (The whole thing is a bit of a scam because it would be so easy to fake a negative result)

You could also have the test done at their "lab" (actually a disused shop unit with some temporary screens and a couple of guys scrolling through their phones waiting for any customers to arrive) for a higher cost and I assume the same is true for PCR; this would remove any uncertainties about things getting lost in the post etc.


----------



## nagapie (Mar 3, 2022)

Jimmy Don't said:


> I've used Randox a few times and always got the results back as timescales advertised etc
> 
> 
> Jimmy Don't said:
> ...


So technically I could order the kits two weeks in advance just to have them?
And how easy was it to find a drop box?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 3, 2022)

nagapie said:


> And how easy was it to find a drop box?



Check here:









						Randox Sample Drop Locations – Google My Maps
					

Randox customers returning their Covid-19 home sample collection kits can use this service to get their samples back to our labs in Northern Ireland. Please be aware sample drop closing times vary by location. Samples dropped before closing times will be couriered over to our labs next day.




					www.google.com


----------



## DaphneM (Mar 14, 2022)

existentialist said:


> What's your definition of "will be OK"?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 14, 2022)

All Covid restrictions on entering the U.K. to be dropped from Friday, for all passengers.


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## nagapie (Mar 15, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> All Covid restrictions on entering the U.K. to be dropped from Friday, for all passengers.


So, assuming we make it with the rising cases, I don't have to test the family when leaving SA to return to the UK in April?
BA won't insist on a test?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 15, 2022)

nagapie said:


> So, assuming we make it with the rising cases, I don't have to test the family when leaving SA to return to the UK in April?
> BA won't insist on a test?



Nope, nothing, not even proof of vaccination status.


----------



## klang (Mar 15, 2022)

wow.


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## teuchter (Mar 15, 2022)

Why "wow"? What would be the point of it now?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 16, 2022)

As of today you no longer need to wear a mask at Heathrow, nor on flights unless the destination country insists that inbound passengers wear them during the flight.


----------



## sparkybird (Mar 16, 2022)

Meanwhile here in Mexico everyone wears them in the street as well as in enclosed spaces. Apart from the young foreigners of course. I don't get how you can walk around and see every Mexican wearing a mask and not think...'hmm maybe I should put one on?'
In restaurants masks are kept on until food arrives and put back on as soon as you've eaten.
Most Mexicans really can't afford to get Covid.

It's odd but I think less about Covid here than I did in the UK despite seeing all masks. I now wonder whether it wasn't COVID I was thinking about but other people's attitudes to it, winding me up?


----------



## Winot (Mar 16, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> As of today you no longer need to wear a mask at Heathrow, nor on flights unless the destination country insists that inbound passengers wear them during the flight.


About to test this flying back from Munich. 

Am hoping the US changes soon too as have flights to DC in late April and don’t fancy mask wearing for 7 hours. Though I guess one workaround is to drink continuously.


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## sparkybird (Mar 16, 2022)

Winot said:


> About to test this flying back from Munich.
> 
> Am hoping the US changes soon too as have flights to DC in late April and don’t fancy mask wearing for 7 hours. Though I guess one workaround is to drink continuously.


You get used to it, did an 11 hour flight with a mask and even slept. The person sitting in the opposite row who pretended to eat/drink most of the flight was getting some pretty dark stares....


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## wemakeyousoundb (Mar 16, 2022)

I'll be going to visit my mum and probably a couple of old friends in France next month, regulations now down to me making a sworn statement to enter France.
I'll be training it and wearing a mask the whole time (I have those take the pressure off your ears thingmajig)


----------



## nagapie (Mar 21, 2022)

We fly Wed 30th at 10.30pm. so think we'll do tests with Rapid Tests as they use priority Royal Mail post boxes and lots near us.
I'll order the kits to come this week Thursday and we'll take them and post them Monday morning.
Does this seem good for a 72hrs before departure rule?
Still crapping myself, especially with so much covid around and all 3 of us in school every day.


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## _Russ_ (Mar 21, 2022)

Maybe need a new thread?, It has been dabbling for a while but has definitely morphed into a 'current Travel Practicalities' thread now


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## nagapie (Mar 24, 2022)

nm


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## Cloo (Mar 24, 2022)

I am wondering what will happen in summer, because it seems a few places now are asking for proof of vaccination in last 6 months, but by July/August a lot of people in a lot of countries won't have been  vaccinated within that period. But presumably unless a country is vaccinating everyone every 6 months (which probably no one except maybe Israel is doing) it'd be a bit counterproductive and pointless to expect it of everyone else coming to that country.

We're going to Slovakia at end of May and right now they have a 9-month requirement, so we'll still be OK for that if still the case. I will get my mum to check the rules in Slovak before we go so we can be sure.

Dunno what we're doing in summer yet - we were thinking of resurrecting out 2020 USA plan, but I'm trying to change jobs so we may find I don't have that much holiday allowance unless I get one starting before June. Or after August.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Mar 24, 2022)

Cloo said:


> I am wondering what will happen in summer, because it seems a few places now are asking for proof of vaccination in last 6 months, but by July/August a lot of people in a lot of countries won't have been  vaccinated within that period. But presumably unless a country is vaccinating everyone every 6 months (which probably no one except maybe Israel is doing) it'd be a bit counterproductive and pointless to expect it of everyone else coming to that country.
> 
> We're going to Slovakia at end of May and right now they have a 9-month requirement, so we'll still be OK for that if still the case. I will get my mum to check the rules in Slovak before we go so we can be sure.
> 
> Dunno what we're doing in summer yet - we were thinking of resurrecting out 2020 USA plan, but I'm trying to change jobs so we may find I don't have that much holiday allowance unless I get one starting before June. Or after August.


someone told me the French rules were "having had a booster in the past 9 months" but when I checked the rule is (currently) "having had a booster within 9 month of the second vaccination", and changes will probably occur again on these. So yeah, keep checking.


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## LDC (Mar 25, 2022)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> someone told me the French rules were "having had a booster in the past 9 months" but when I checked the rule is (currently) "having had a booster within 9 month of the second vaccination", and changes will probably occur again on these. So yeah, keep checking.



Just got back from France yesterday. Had vaccination status checked when entering from the UK 10 days ago, but was never asked for any proof while there for anything, or on return. Did a passenger locator form for arrival but that was never looked at either. Mask wearing is very high though, pretty much universal apart from bars/cafes when people are eating etc.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 25, 2022)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Just got back from France yesterday. Had vaccination status checked when entering from the UK 10 days ago, but was never asked for any proof while there for anything, or on return. Did a passenger locator form for arrival but that was never looked at either. Mask wearing is very high though, pretty much universal apart from bars/cafes when people are eating etc.




Nothing needed to enter the U.K. for vaccinated or unvaccinated people, no tests, no forms. This is how the rest of Europe will shortly be, the US / Canada to follow. Christ knows when the Far East will sort their shit out though.


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## smmudge (Apr 14, 2022)

smmudge said:


> Thanks we're off to Rhodes! Can't wait to look around lots of ancient ruins heh



Well we're here!

After some hours missed sleep - OH left it a bit late to download her nhs travel pass, greece are apparently doing random checks at the border what happens if they pick us and we're positive etc etc. Got all our vaccine docs ready and not a single person asked to see it, not at the airline gate or on arrival! And no sign of random tests. Oh well can't complain, hotel is dead swish, on the beach, all inc and adults only, very peaceful.


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## MickiQ (Apr 14, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Nothing needed to enter the U.K. for vaccinated or unvaccinated people, no tests, no forms. This is how the rest of Europe will shortly be, the US / Canada to follow. Christ knows when the Far East will sort their shit out though.


What are the current rules for visiting Switzerland?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 14, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> What are the current rules for visiting Switzerland?



From the UK? Proof of being fully vaccinated is all you need for Switzerland.


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## MickiQ (Apr 14, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> From the UK? Proof of being fully vaccinated is all you need for Switzerland.


From the UK yes CoVID pass on the phone good enough? no time restrictions? this if it happens will be in August.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 14, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> From the UK yes CoVID pass on the phone good enough? no time restrictions? this if it happens will be in August.




NHS app is fine, no time restrictions so far. Also every chance that they will follow the UK in binning off all restrictions including the need to be jabbed up.


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## Winot (Apr 20, 2022)

Any recent recs for tests prior to travel to US?

You still need to do a test a day before travel so needs to be a telehealth service.

Ta


----------



## rubbershoes (Apr 21, 2022)

Just booked for Morocco.   We need to do a PCR within 48 hours before leaving the UK


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## Athos (Apr 21, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Just booked for Morocco.   We need to do a PCR within 48 hours before leaving the UK


Please let me know how it goes covid restrictions wise. I've just signed up to a stag do in Marracech.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 21, 2022)

Athos said:


> Please let me know how it goes covid restrictions wise. I've just signed up to a stag do in Marracech.




Piece of piss, I've had a pair travel to and from Marrakech 8 round trips in the past 3 weeks, no issues at all.


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## Athos (Apr 21, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Piece of piss, I've had a pair travel to and from Marrakech 8 round trips in the past 3 weeks, no issues at all.


Great. Thanks.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 24, 2022)

Booked a four day trip to Belgium at the start of August via Eurostar.


Going to be weird


----------



## planetgeli (Apr 24, 2022)

Recently back from Montenegro. It was good to be on a plane again.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 24, 2022)

Showing your left wing views again?


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## Lea (Apr 25, 2022)

Going to a wedding in Greece in June which has been postponed a couple of times already. Have a Eurostar trip postponed to September for Amsterdam as well. Hotels are so expensive though. 

Did have my honeymoon booked for 2020 in the Amalfi Coast but in the meantime decided not to get married. Luckily have got back money for flights and a voucher for the hotel.


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## strung out (Apr 25, 2022)

I need to go to Malaysia in the next couple of months to visit my wife's dying uncle with her. I don't suppose anyone has any good advice for entering/exiting the country? 

I think we'll need clear tests etc. and proof of vaccination status, but as we're about to book flights, not sure if there are variations between whether you go via Doha, Singapore or Kuala Lumpur (we'll have one onward flight to Penang from any of the above).


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 25, 2022)

strung out said:


> I need to go to Malaysia in the next couple of months to visit my wife's dying uncle with her. I don't suppose anyone has any good advice for entering/exiting the country?
> 
> I think we'll need clear tests etc. and proof of vaccination status, but as we're about to book flights, not sure if there are variations between whether you go via Doha, Singapore or Kuala Lumpur (we'll have one onward flight to Penang from any of the above).




Current rules for Malaysia:

Proof of vaccination status, two shots, booster not required.
PCR test in the 2 days prior to departure.
Professionally administered antigen test within 24 hours of arrival.
This app on your phone: MySejahtera
Proof of health insurance with Covid cover.

Makes no difference if you go via Doha, Singapore, Dubai etc. so long as you stay airside when you transit.


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## strung out (Apr 27, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Current rules for Malaysia:
> 
> Proof of vaccination status, two shots, booster not required.
> PCR test in the 2 days prior to departure.
> ...


Cheers for this! Tallies with what I was expecting, although apparently they've just updated guidance from May 1st so you no longer need any tests or health insurance, so that makes things easier!


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 27, 2022)

just checked for my visit mum trip to France and one less form to fill compared to when I booked.


----------



## Aladdin (Apr 28, 2022)

Marriot Mena House Hotel?


Sorry..I was replying to DaphneM's photo of one of the pyramids but their post didnt quote for some reason


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 29, 2022)

strung out said:


> Cheers for this! Tallies with what I was expecting, although apparently they've just updated guidance from May 1st so you no longer need any tests or health insurance, so that makes things easier!




Confirmation for you...






Fully vaccinated travellers, alongside those under the age of 12, will be permitted to enter Malaysia without undergoing pre-arrival testing. COVID-19 insurance is also no longer required to be shown and travellers only need to complete the pre-departure form via the MySejahtera App.


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## Thora (Apr 29, 2022)

This is more a Brexit query than a Covid one but someone here might know - a friend of mine is Polish and also has British citizenship.  She's supposed to be visiting Poland soon with her son who only has a British passport, but she is worried that he won't be allowed to enter on it as Poland will consider him Polish and will only allow him to enter on a Polish passport (doesn't recognise dual citizenship).  This apparently wasn't an issue when we were all EU citizens but could be a problem now the British passport is a foreign ones.
Sounds crazy to me, but is she right?


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## nagapie (Apr 29, 2022)

In South Africa you have to always enter on your South African passport if you have dual citizenship. My sons, born in the UK, enter on their British passports as I've never applied for their SA ones. So I'm guessing if he was born in Poland or has ever had a Polish passport, then he will need to enter on a Polish passport.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 29, 2022)

Thora said:


> This is more a Brexit query than a Covid one but someone here might know - a friend of mine is Polish and also has British citizenship.  She's supposed to be visiting Poland soon with her son who only has a British passport, but she is worried that he won't be allowed to enter on it as Poland will consider him Polish and will only allow him to enter on a Polish passport (doesn't recognise dual citizenship).  This apparently wasn't an issue when we were all EU citizens but could be a problem now the British passport is a foreign ones.
> Sounds crazy to me, but is she right?




How would Polish immigration know that he’s Polish? He’s just showing up with a U.K. passport and a Polish mum, if they don’t accept dual nationality then he’s clearly taken the dad’s one and is therefore British. And really not sure why Brexit would alter things here, you always had to go through passport control between the U.K. and Poland.


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## Thora (Apr 29, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> How would Polish immigration know that he’s Polish? He’s just showing up with a U.K. passport and a Polish mum, if they don’t accept dual nationality then he’s clearly taken the dad’s one and is therefore British. And really not sure why Brexit would alter things here, you always had to go through passport control between the U.K. and Poland.


She thinks because she is Polish he is automatically Polish (to the Polish state) so the immigration will know.  And previously it didn't matter as it was all EU passports, but now the British passport is foreign.
She tried to travel back to Poland recently on her British passport and got lots of hassle at the border and was held up for ages before eventually being let through.


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## MickiQ (Apr 29, 2022)

Thora said:


> She thinks because she is Polish he is automatically Polish (to the Polish state) so the immigration will know.  And previously it didn't matter as it was all EU passports, but now the British passport is foreign.
> She tried to travel back to Poland recently on her British passport and got lots of hassle at the border and was held up for ages before eventually being let through.


She's right that her son is automatically a Polish citizen by right of descent but surely she would needed to have registered his birth with the Polish Embassy/Consulate? It's not like the registry office wherever she lives will have notified them. Unless she is planning to take her Polish passport and his birth certificate and have a barney with the immigration staff. Poland allows dual citizenship so you can have both.


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## nagapie (Apr 30, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> She's right that her son is automatically a Polish citizen by right of descent but surely she would needed to have registered his birth with the Polish Embassy/Consulate? It's not like the registry office wherever she lives will have notified them. Unless she is planning to take her Polish passport and his birth certificate and have a barney with the immigration staff. Poland allows dual citizenship so you can have both.


Although my boys go through on their UK passports, I always get hassled at the South African border about why I've not registered them. Which is purely down to laziness on my part.


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## Winot (Apr 30, 2022)

Winot said:


> Any recent recs for tests prior to travel to US?
> 
> You still need to do a test a day before travel so needs to be a telehealth service.
> 
> Ta


In case it’s of use to anyone I used these people as they were the cheapest accessible to me:






						Same Day RT-PCR Travel Test in The UK | Concepto Clinic
					

We provide instant Covid RT-PCR travel test reports on the same day. Get your test done at approved coronavirus clinic Concepto Clinic, UK.




					conceptoclinic.co.uk
				




All worked fine - got results by email within 30 mins then uploaded to VeriFLY app which enabled me to check-in online to BA flight. No trouble at airport and no masks on flight (5 hour delay at LHR but not Covid related).


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 30, 2022)

Anyone travelled back from gare du nord on eurostar recently (well post brexit recent)
Do they have a duty free shop and (most important of all) does it stock tobacco?


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## DaphneM (Apr 30, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Marriot Mena House Hotel?
> 
> 
> Sorry..I was replying to DaphneM's photo of one of the pyramids but their post didnt quote for some reason


That’s right! 

Have you been?


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## Aladdin (Apr 30, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> That’s right!
> 
> Have you been?




No...but it looks really nice.

Its a place I would love to go.


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## kabbes (Apr 30, 2022)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> Anyone travelled back from gare du nord on eurostar recently (well post brexit recent)
> Do they have a duty free shop and (most important of all) does it stock tobacco?


On the train or in the station?


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## mx wcfc (Apr 30, 2022)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> Anyone travelled back from gare du nord on eurostar recently (well post brexit recent)
> Do they have a duty free shop and (most important of all) does it stock tobacco?


gotcha!  You are Jacob Rees Mogg, desparately searching for a Brexit benefit, aren't you?


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## pbsmooth (Apr 30, 2022)

Duty free shop at the Eurotunnel stations so probably...


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 30, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> gotcha!  You are Jacob Rees Mogg, desparately searching for a Brexit benefit, aren't you?


I wish I had a nanny  😥 
but no just a heavy smoker trying to save money on his slow suicide


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## teuchter (May 1, 2022)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> Anyone travelled back from gare du nord on eurostar recently (well post brexit recent)
> Do they have a duty free shop and (most important of all) does it stock tobacco?


I went through in February. As far as i recall there is a smallish shop in gare du nord after you go through the security / passport checks. I can't be sure, because I never have reason to go into a duty free shop, but do vaguely remember thinking "hmmph, brexit has given us duty free nonsense on eurostar now".
There was also an array of some kind of self service machines that were something to do with claiming tax free status on whatever stuff you'd bought in France. Or something.
May not be a very useful answer. Smoking's bad for you though. Give up smoking and then it will be a non issue.


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## wemakeyousoundb (May 2, 2022)

I know I should stop but will save that for another thread.
The correct answer was: no e2a they don't sell duty free cigarettes in there just the regular french peiced ones
tried that wevat app to claim some vat back but as I did it last minute it for some reason did not work for me.

Other handy tip: if you check your NHS app to see if your covid vaccination certificate is working a couple of days beforehand and it does:
download it to your phone
I did
and it saved me having a blank QR code on the day as this is all the app was showing at Kings Cross and it would have meant no travel TO france (no checks needed on the way back).


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 2, 2022)

Duty free shops the world over are a rip.

If you want cheap snout ferry/Le Shuttle to Calais, turn left, as soon as you cross the Belgian border pull off the motorway and there’s a cancer megastore.


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## wemakeyousoundb (May 2, 2022)

Also:
still compulsory masking on public transport in France and followed way more than here when it was compulsory (a couple of metro trips and a regional train experience)


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## scifisam (May 2, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> She's right that her son is automatically a Polish citizen by right of descent but surely she would needed to have registered his birth with the Polish Embassy/Consulate? It's not like the registry office wherever she lives will have notified them. Unless she is planning to take her Polish passport and his birth certificate and have a barney with the immigration staff. Poland allows dual citizenship so you can have both.



Poland doesn't officially allow dual citizenship, just tolerates it, and anyone it considers legally Polish (like Thora's friend's son) can't enter the country using their second citizenship. I think the son would need to get a Polish passport.









						Poland - Dual Citizenship
					

The laws regulating citizenship in Poland are the Polish Citizenship Act of April 2009 and the Repatriation Act of 2000. Citizenship is mainly based on the principle of ius sanguinis and is granted automatically to individuals born to at least...




					www.dualcitizenshipreport.org


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## Glitter (May 3, 2022)

As things stand there’s a requirement for a covid test the day before travel to the US. Is that likely to change any time soon?


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## Winot (May 3, 2022)

Glitter said:


> As things stand there’s a requirement for a covid test the day before travel to the US. Is that likely to change any time soon?


No special knowledge but I haven’t picked up on any likelihood of change - I’m in the US now so have been watching media for hints over last month.

As it happens I caught Covid (for 2nd time) a month before I flew which removed some anxiety (once I started testing negative again).

Mask mandate on flights has gone.


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## strung out (Jun 4, 2022)

strung out said:


> I need to go to Malaysia in the next couple of months to visit my wife's dying uncle with her. I don't suppose anyone has any good advice for entering/exiting the country?
> 
> I think we'll need clear tests etc. and proof of vaccination status, but as we're about to book flights, not sure if there are variations between whether you go via Doha, Singapore or Kuala Lumpur (we'll have one onward flight to Penang from any of the above).


Well we made it to Malaysia yesterday, but my wife's uncle died on Monday with the funeral two days later, so we missed the lot. 

Travel was straightforward, as we'd filled in our vaccination status etc on the Malaysian Covid app. I did have to sit next to virtually the only man on the entire flight who wasn't wearing a mask, while he sniffed and snored his way through the entire 13 hour flight. Fingers crossed I didn't pick anything up while we were traveling!


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 15, 2022)

Glitter said:


> As things stand there’s a requirement for a covid test the day before travel to the US. Is that likely to change any time soon?



No tests needed for vaccinated travellers to the US or Canada now.


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## Glitter (Jun 15, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> No tests needed for vaccinated travellers to the US or Canada now.



Yep. A week after I got back  Bastards!


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