# Do London Taxi drivers have to accept the fare?



## TitanSound (Dec 9, 2009)

I ask because I have been in a couple of situations where they have refused and I have always been under the impression that without good reason they cannot refuse a fare. 

I can understand a cabbie not wanting to take someone if they are obviously out of it, covered in puke, bleeding etc. But recently 2 cab divers have refused a fare.

I was out with a friend one night and we ended up staying out quite late. I obviously wanted to make sure she got in a cab as I could get the bus home easily and wanted to make sure she was safe. I hailed a cab and he refused saying he was heading into central London. In my mind if you don't want the fare don't put your fucking light on. So I started having a go at him saying he was out of order. In my mind, what if my friend had been alone and unable to hail another cab. What if something happened to her?

Second time it was a similar situation. I was pretty pissed and got chatting to a couple of girls outside a club whilst having a smoke. Ended up chatting with them for ages inside then on the way home, again being a gentleman, wanted to make sure they got into a cab OK. Cabbie refused on the account that I was too pissed. I said the cab wasn't for me but the 2 girls. He then proceeded to call me a cunt, tell me to fuck off and drove away. Now if I was sober I probably would have just been stunned but I let loose with a foul mouth tirade at his disappearing taxi. 

So, was I justified in my anger?


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 9, 2009)

Use Cabwise - Text CAB to 60835 to get the numbers of one taxi and two licensed minicab firms, in the area you are texting from.


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## tarannau (Dec 9, 2009)

I think they have to accept the fare as long as its within certain boundaries, somewhere around the Tooting level down south for example iirc. So they can refuse to take you to deepest Croydon or Hangar Lane legitimately, or use a variety of other conditions to weasel out of taking you


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## TitanSound (Dec 9, 2009)

tarannau said:


> I think they have to accept the fare as long as its within certain boundaries, somewhere around the Tooting level down south for example iirc. So they can refuse to take you to deepest Croydon or Hangar Lane legitimately, or use a variety of other conditions to weasel out of taking you



Thing is it was not *that* far. All in North London and not what I would call an excessive distance.


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## temper_tantrum (Dec 9, 2009)

I think you're thinking of barristers ...


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## Wolveryeti (Dec 9, 2009)

IIRC they don't get any kind of public subsidy, so yeah they're being twats, but not majorly so.


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## Boycey (Dec 9, 2009)

i was under the impression that if they pulled over and the fare was within a reasonable distance then they had to take you but there is an awful lot of urban myth/legend surrounding them. i'll ask a mate who's a cabbie


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## marty21 (Dec 9, 2009)

A black cab refused to take me and my mum a few weeks ago, I met her at paddington,and we were going to colindale in a rush, claimed he didn't know where colindale was, I ranted are him a bit, "have you done the fucking knowledge? " I think I said, the fucker just shrugged, we got in the next one so we didn't have to wait, £30 fare too!


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## rutabowa (Dec 9, 2009)

it's their cab, i guess they can let who they want in to it


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## g force (Dec 9, 2009)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> Use Cabwise - Text CAB to 60835 to get the numbers of one taxi and two licensed minicab firms, in the area you are texting from.



Doesn't always work either...was in Kentish Town and firm kept asking for a postcode/address...kinda tricky when all you know is you're outside Kentish Town Forum.


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## ethel (Dec 9, 2009)

from tfl:

Unless they have a good reason not to, drivers must: 

Accept any hiring up to 12 miles or any hiring up to one hour duration, if the destination is in Greater London 
Accept any hiring up to 20 miles if starting at Heathrow Airport 
Accept any hiring up to one hour duration, if the destination is in Greater London


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## Kanda (Dec 9, 2009)

Drivers must, unless they have good cause, accept any hiring up to 12 miles (20 miles if starting at Heathrow Airport), or up to one hour duration, if the destination is in Greater London.


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## TitanSound (Dec 9, 2009)

Well I just Googled the question (This thread comes second on the Google results page already ) and this is what it says:




			
				london-taxi.co.uk said:
			
		

> Drivers must, unless they have good cause, accept any hiring up to 12 miles (20 miles if starting at Heathrow Airport), or up to one hour duration, if the destination is in Greater London.



Seems pretty ambiguous to me 

Edit: Heh, snap


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## quimcunx (Dec 9, 2009)

You don't have to tell me twice! 

Or even three times, lol.


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## skyscraper101 (Dec 9, 2009)

rutabowa said:


> it's their cab, i guess they can let who they want in to it



That's what I thought. I never assumed anyone was legally obligated to carry anyone. Their cab, they rules.

Always safer getting a minicab anyway, once they've been called out to a destination, they're less likely to refuse to carry you after making the effort to go pick up. Plus they most likely know in advance where they're going to be taking you.


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## skyscraper101 (Dec 9, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> from tfl:
> 
> Unless they have a good reason not to, drivers must:
> 
> ...



Fair enough but the reality is they can do what they want and unless you have video proof of what actually happened when they refuse to take you.

There's not likely much that's gonna happen if you complain to TFL after being refused a pick up because it will be your word against theirs (assuming you get the name, and number of your driver)

Sad but true.


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## aylee (Dec 9, 2009)

This document says at para 12.2:



> As London taxi drivers are obliged by law to accept journeys up to 12 miles from the point where the hiring begins ....



And this says:



> a driver must, unless they have a reasonable excuse, accept any hiring up to 12 miles distance (20 miles from Heathrow Airport) or 1 hour duration, provided the destination is within the Metropolitan or City police districts.



I thought it was 6 miles from anywhere in London or 25 miles if the driver was at Heathrow, which just illustrates the urban myth.  I couldn't find anything on the PCO section of the TFL site, which shows how piss-poor the PCO is.

I used to regularly have arguments with black cabbies about taking me to Herne Hill from Central London when I lived there .... they do seem to have mellowed out about the concept of "goin' saaarf, guv" in recent years though.


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## girasol (Dec 9, 2009)

we were refused a fare once from Waterloo to Brixton (2 adults and 1 child) - to this day I still don't know why.  Cabbie must have been in a bad mood or something


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## g force (Dec 9, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> That's what I thought. I never assumed anyone was legally obligated to carry anyone. Their cab, they rules.
> 
> Always safer getting a minicab anyway, once they've been called out to a destination, they're less likely to refuse to carry you after making the effort to go pick up. Plus they most likely know in advance where they're going to be taking you.



No...many are employed by a firm/group (as they can club together) that licences the cab on their behalf for TFL. It isn't an individual business.


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## rutabowa (Dec 9, 2009)

it's the driver who has the license, not the cab, isn't it?


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## Onket (Dec 9, 2009)

It's unenforceable.


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## teuchter (Dec 9, 2009)

Best thing to do if they refuse to take you is murmur "Addison Lee" as you turn away.


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## Cloo (Dec 9, 2009)

I discovered a cab rank just off the Charing X Road by Traf sq where the driver told me that at that rank specifically, drivers were permitted to choose their fare if they waited there... I spoke to two cabs who *shock* only wanted to go South, whereas the third was pleased, as he'd been waiting for a North fair.


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## aylee (Dec 9, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> There's not likely much that's gonna happen if you complain to TFL after being refused a pick up because it will be your word against theirs (assuming you get the name, and number of your driver)
> 
> Sad but true.



This is also my experience.  I complained on two occasions at being refused.  On one of those occasions, the cabbie tried to have me arrested by a copper standing at one of those 'ring of steel' booths on London Bridge - the copper, to his credit, told the cabbie in no uncertain terms that he was obliged to take me home.

I never had any reply to one of those complaints, despite a chasing letter; to the other, they just said it was my word against the cabbie's and no action would be taken!


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## editor (Dec 9, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Drivers must, unless they have good cause, accept any hiring up to 12 miles (20 miles if starting at Heathrow Airport), or up to one hour duration, if the destination is in Greater London.


The cunts regularly flout that if you mention the B word (Brixton) - even when you're _miles_ inside the zone - and complaining to the cab office is a total waste of time.


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## g force (Dec 9, 2009)

Indeed...that's why I have my 3 trusted mini cab firms and Addison Lee stored in my phone. AL in fact are pretty cheap - £20 from Finsbury Park to SW16.


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## trashpony (Dec 9, 2009)

In theory they do, in practice they don't. It's worse if you live in South London - some drivers seem to think they'll never make it back to the north of the river if they cross south. It's only happened to me a couple of times since I've lived north of the river but it doesn't make any difference if you're a woman on your own/two women - they don't give a shit and complaining is a waste of time


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## TitanSound (Dec 9, 2009)

g force said:


> Indeed...that's why I have my 3 trusted mini cab firms and Addison Lee stored in my phone. AL in fact are pretty cheap - £20 from Finsbury Park to SW16.



I normally use AL but if I am in an unfamiliar location and cannot give a postcode sometimes they give you hassle. Plus if they are really busy it can be easier just to hail one.


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 9, 2009)

rutabowa said:


> it's the driver who has the license, not the cab, isn't it?



yes and no.  both cab and driver have to be licensed (and since i'm feeling pedantic, it's worth adding that both cab and driver have to be licensed by the same council / authority - a Reading cab (for example) can't ply for hire in London, and a Reading taxi driver can't drive a London cab or vice versa)

I would have thought if you get the cab number then the cab owner ought to be keeping records of who was driving the cab when, and should be able to respond to a complaint via TfL, but as others have said, it could be your word against the cabbie's, and if he says he thought you were pissed, then that could constitute 'reasonable grounds' for refusing.

I think the original 'six mile' rule was extended some years ago to twelve.  The reason behind the original rule was horse welfare.  While some bits of taxi licensing go back to laws dating from 1847, it is not a legal requirement that taxis carry a bale of hay - that is an urban myth. 

It is however illegal (in many places) to leave a taxi unattended on a public highway even if it's legally parked, the handbrake on and the engine off.  The reason for this law is that the horse might wander off.  The last recorded case where a taxi driver was summonsed for this resulted in the magistrate telling the police-person to go away and not be so silly, or words to that effect.


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## komodo (Dec 9, 2009)

honestly the taxi situation in london is a joke. Why can't you hail a registered mini cab? why are black cabs so over-priced that the very handy cab rank that used to be outside the Ritzy went through lack of use I presume? Why are there always 10-20 black cabs waiting at Bromley south for rich punters? seems like we have a class based cab service in london. It is absolute crap i do not know why we put up with it. This is not to say that black cabs drivers are not gents and have helped me out on a few occaisions but they clearly prefer to cater for the well heeled. they certainly believe that they can pick and choose their customers!


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## Bunjaj Pali (Dec 9, 2009)

trashpony said:


> In theory they do, in practice they don't. It's worse if you live in South London - some drivers seem to think they'll never make it back to the north of the river if they cross south. It's only happened to me a couple of times since I've lived north of the river but it doesn't make any difference if you're a woman on your own/two women - they don't give a shit and complaining is a waste of time



I've never understood the whole black cab/south of the river thing. What's the reasoning behind it? I vaguely remember a cabbie saying it was cos they'd not pick up a fare on the way back to town but surely that's no more likely than in any other part of London?


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 10, 2009)

dunno really.

i suppose that if they want to get back to central london, there's a risk that if they end up in south london, they might pick up someone else who wants to go even further out in south london, and they might fall off the edge of the known universe.

or end up in croydon 

or if they are looking for a fare in whatever direction they live in because they are finishing work for the night and want to go home.

maybe it would make sense if central london had separate taxi ranks for cabs that were available to go in different directions...


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## London_Calling (Dec 10, 2009)

Bunjaj Pali said:


> I've never understood the whole black cab/south of the river thing. What's the reasoning behind it? I vaguely remember a cabbie saying it was cos they'd not pick up a fare on the way back to town but surely that's no more likely than in any other part of London?


It used to be the case that the cab driver didn't want what they call the 'dead mileage' back into central London for the next fare - they want to drop someone off and pick someone up asap. If you go out to say, Brixton to drop someone off, you're unlikely to get another fare until you get back to the river - which is at least £10-£15 you haven't earned.

If they work at night, they only have a few 'hot' hours in which to make their money so they do think about the fare after next.

In an ideal world I imagine they want to buzz around Zone 1 earning £10 fares one after the other with no gaps between fares.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 10, 2009)

editor said:


> The cunts regularly flout that if you mention the B word (Brixton) - even when you're _miles_ inside the zone - and complaining to the cab office is a total waste of time.




Yep, I remember frequently trying to get a cab from Fleet Street or High Holborn over 20 years ago.  Took 9 cabbies once before one would accept me and he'd been through the war so wasn't scared of Brixton. 

I then started to say Streatham which seemed more acceptable.

The excuse they would often use rather than say "no way am I going to Brixton" was they were on their way home, despite me pointing out that their light was on.  Then they'd say they were only picking up fares that were on their way home. 

I often used to wonder how guilty they'd feel if they heard about a girl missing who was last seen on Fleet Street at midnight trying to get a cab.


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## Xanadu (Dec 10, 2009)

TitanSound said:


> I normally use AL but if I am in an unfamiliar location and cannot give a postcode sometimes they give you hassle. Plus if they are really busy it can be easier just to hail one.



If you're getting no love on the phone, try their mobile website - quite often you get lucky, and you get an answer in no time at all.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 11, 2009)

editor said:


> The cunts regularly flout that if you mention the B word (Brixton) - even when you're _miles_ inside the zone - and complaining to the cab office is a total waste of time.


I usually say 'small town on the A23'.


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## Bunjaj Pali (Dec 12, 2009)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I usually say 'small town on the A23'.



And then you end up in Brighton.


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## prunus (Dec 12, 2009)

Odd - I've never (in 10 years that is) had a problem with 'Loughborough Junction', although you'd think it wouldn't be any more popular with cabbies than Brixton.


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