# Victoria Wood, an equal comedy talent to Ronnie Barker - Discuss



## spanglechick (Sep 24, 2010)

It struck me, watching the recent documentary about Victoria Wood, that she's an exceptionally rare and solid talent - no misfires...

Taste in comedy is individual, and Wood has never been shocking or a firebrand... but she's prhaps unparralleled at what she does.  

I grew up in the eighties only ever watching tv with my parents and while they did love Saturday live and Blackadder, it's Victoria Wood that they loved most of all. I have a deep affection for her work... it's part of my formative culture, like Ronnie Barker in 'Open all hours'.

What say you urban?


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## killer b (Sep 24, 2010)

I adored dinner ladies, but hadn't really seen much of her 80s sketches, so that doc was something of a revelation. She's certainly a great talent.


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## radio_atomica (Sep 24, 2010)

she is pretty amazing, but we are biased innit


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## spanglechick (Sep 24, 2010)

why biased?


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## radio_atomica (Sep 24, 2010)

good jokes about northerns are intrinsically hilarious to northerners such as ourselves.  although she's so much more than a 'northern' comedian or a 'woman' comedian, she is genuinely brill.


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## lizzieloo (Sep 24, 2010)

I LOVE her, the on screen relationship with Julie walters is brilliant


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 25, 2010)

Don't know much about her earlier stuff, really, aside from the "Let's do it" song, but I had to get the Dinnerladies box set. It's brilliant. Very well observed, and in a weird way I quite fancied Bren. The bit with the brass band...something in my eye...


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## jonnyd1978 (Sep 25, 2010)

Arrrrggghhhhh. I think Victoria Wood is great, really clever wit. I absolutely hate Dinnerladies though, it's terrible! I want it to be good but it's so bad! Think I'll just go and you tube let's do it.


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## killer b (Sep 25, 2010)

Dinnerladies was brilliant. One of the greatest sitcoms ever...


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## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2010)

I can't stand her tbh
Ronnie Barker, is brilliant though


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## jonnyd1978 (Sep 25, 2010)

killer b said:


> Dinnerladies was brilliant. One of the greatest sitcoms ever...



How? The acting is wooden, the jokes and situations are obvious. I wanted to like it but it's so forced.


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## spanglechick (Sep 25, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> good jokes about northerns are intrinsically hilarious to northerners such as ourselves.  although she's so much more than a 'northern' comedian or a 'woman' comedian, she is genuinely brill.


 
ah, i see - "we" was you and killer b... i thought it included me.


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## spanglechick (Sep 25, 2010)

when i was about thirteen my mum had a book with all the scripts of her sketches, called "up to you, porky"...  i must've read the whole thing half a dozen times. I pored over every detail, stage directions, descriptions - because it was all part of the funny.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 25, 2010)

i have never ever laughed at victoria wood. she makes me cringe. ronnie barker is hilarious.
they both have poor taste in weskets.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 25, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> good jokes about northerns are intrinsically hilarious to northerners such as ourselves.  although she's so much more than a 'northern' comedian or a 'woman' comedian, she is genuinely brill.


 
i'm a reluctant northerner and i remain stony-faced


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## southside (Sep 25, 2010)

Barker wrote loads of stuff for TV under a load of assumed names, 3 or 4 of them the most famous being Gerald Wiley.

The 2 Ronnies 4 Candles sketch, Poridge open all hours are all comedy genius. As for old Victoria and Dinner Ladies no comparison she doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same thread as the late great Ronnie Barker.


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## Reno (Sep 25, 2010)

Acorn Antiques alone is absolute genius and the only TV series that made me laugh as much is Father Ted.  As Seen on TV was the best comedy series of the 80s. She is a brilliant comic writer, but only an OK comic performer and she was smart enough to realise the comic potential in others. The cast on that show was outstanding. My favourite comedy sketch ever is the one where Julie Walter's plays the ancient, hard of hearing waitress taking an order of soup.

I never ever got the appeal of Ronnie Barker though.


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## spanglechick (Sep 25, 2010)

southside said:


> Barker wrote loads of stuff for TV under a load of assumed names, 3 or 4 of them the most famous being Gerald Wiley.
> 
> The 2 Ronnies 4 Candles sketch, Poridge open all hours are all comedy genius. As for old Victoria and Dinner Ladies no comparison she doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same thread as the late great Ronnie Barker.


 


Reno said:


> Acorn Antiques alone is absolute genius and the only TV series that made me laugh as much is Father Ted.  As Seen on TV was the best comedy series of the 80s. She is a brilliant comic writer, but only an OK comic performer and she was smart enough to realise the comic potential in others. The cast on that show was outstanding. My favourite comedy sketch ever is the one where Julie Walter's plays the ancient, hard of hearing waitress taking an order of soup.
> 
> I never ever got the appeal of Ronnie Barker though.


 
and there you have the problem with this kind of comparison...


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## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2010)

Reno said:


> Acorn Antiques alone is absolute genius and the only TV series that made me laugh as much is Father Ted.  As Seen on TV was the best comedy series of the 80s. She is a brilliant comic writer, but only an OK comic performer and she was smart enough to realise the comic potential in others. The cast on that show was outstanding. My favourite comedy sketch ever is the one where Julie Walter's plays the ancient, hard of hearing waitress taking an order of soup.
> 
> I never ever got the appeal of Ronnie Barker though.


 
I forgot about acorn antiques, that  was funny, I will give her that


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## ska invita (Sep 25, 2010)

killer b said:


> I adored dinner ladies, but hadn't really seen much of her 80s sketches, so that doc was something of a revelation. She's certainly a great talent.


growing up as a teen i was always a bit too cool to like her - it was all a bit too middle of the road - but then dinnerladies won me over - got them on dvd  very affectionate comedy. id lvoe to go back and see the older stuff - especially as seen on


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 25, 2010)

She's written some great stuff, especially Acorn Antiques, but I agree with Reno that she herself is an ok performer at best. 

So the comparison with Ronnie Barker's difficult because he was a great comic actor performing other people's stuff as well as his own. 

I liked bits of The Two Ronnies – Barker's 'Public Information' slots mostly – but a lot of it was pretty dire.

They're different beasts, though, aren't they? Ronnie Barker's comedy writing was all about word play. Victoria Wood's is more about creating characters and pointing out their absurdity or pomposity. Her comedy has a pathos that is lacking in Ronnie Barker's.


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## ska invita (Sep 25, 2010)

^^^good post that


littlebabyjesus said:


> She's written some great stuff, especially Acorn Antiques, but I agree with Reno that she herself is an ok performer at best.


 in her shows she often rights the funny lines for other people and acts flat and leaves herself the straight lines.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 25, 2010)

ska invita said:


> in her shows she often rights the funny lines for other people and acts flat and leaves herself the straight lines.



Yes, absolutely. She give all the best lines to Julie Walters or Celia Imre or whoever. She is very generous in that.


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## JWH (Sep 25, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> when i was about thirteen my mum had a book with all the scripts of her sketches, called "up to you, porky"...  i must've read the whole thing half a dozen times. I pored over every detail, stage directions, descriptions - because it was all part of the funny.



My mum had that book too and I had the same experience. Sissy?!?!?!?! 

But I don't see any reason why Victoria Wood should be rated any higher than Jasper Carrot - imvho the main thing about her was that she was a northern woman doing gentle observational comedy when practically all the other comedians were men and/or Southerners and/or doing observational/political/modern comedy. A "safe" choice for broadcasters to be daring?



littlebabyjesus said:


> I liked bits of The Two Ronnies – Barker's 'Public Information' slots mostly – but a lot of it was pretty dire.


 
Yeah, I'm a minor Barker fan but people forget that he did a lot of really cheesy crap over the 70s and 80s.


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## stavros (Sep 25, 2010)

Never been that blown away by either Barker or Wood.


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## Voley (Sep 25, 2010)

Victoria Wood is fucking awful.


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## DRINK? (Sep 25, 2010)

Got a soft spot for both, my grandparents used to love victoria wood, prob because she wasn't blue....Barker lived in our village and was a lovely bloke, all round good egg, my dad  loved the ol boy so for that reason he gets my nod


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## Poot (Sep 25, 2010)

I'd forgotten how funny she is until the doc came on. The "two soups" sketch had me incapable with laughter. How in God's name ANY of the actors ever kept a straight face is beyond me.


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## weltweit (Sep 25, 2010)

I don't think you can really compare Wood with Barker.. 

Well I suppose you can but what is the point. 

I enjoy both. 

And Micheal Macintyre!


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## trashpony (Sep 25, 2010)

I love her - think she's massively underrated (probably because she's female and northern). I have never found the two ronnies funny but I didn't grow up with them so I might be missing something. I loved dinner ladies and acorn antiques.


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## tarannau (Sep 25, 2010)

NVP said:


> Victoria Wood is fucking awful.


 
Snap, although that's probably harsher than I'd have put it. At least Barker seems of his era, whilst Wood always seemed a little behind the times. She's mildly amusing, but by the time she starts with the comedy songs I'm reaching for the flicker in distress.

I've far more of a soft spot for Barker tbh.


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## spliff (Sep 25, 2010)

I think Victoria Wood is very funny. 
Acorn Antiques is a spot on pastiche of shoddily made soaps and I think with repeats, youtube and other exposure eventually people may see it as a gem.
The continual use of crossing the fourth wall is hilarious.
Dinner Ladies is a brilliantly crafted sit-com I would put it in the same realms as Fawlty Towers.

Ronnie Barker, I loved him in Porridge and Open All Hours and way back in the Frost Report but he didn't write them.
The stuff he did write was for the Two Ronnies sketches which mostly left me cold.

Someone mention _Micheal Macintyre?_ Erm .. why? smug git.


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## trashpony (Sep 26, 2010)

thanks for the link spangles. absolute genius


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## madzone (Sep 26, 2010)

I love Victoria Wood and Dinner Ladies was a sublimely well observed and written piece of work. I only recently realised that she's influenced a lot of my characters and the way I write. She's fab.

And now I'm going to watch that documentary instead of getting up 


And she's acted in other stuff just like Barker.


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## goldenecitrone (Sep 26, 2010)

I much prefer the work of Jennifer Saunders. Comic Strip, Young Ones, Ab Fab etc... I always found Victoria Wood a bit too twee for my taste.


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## goldenecitrone (Sep 26, 2010)

goldenecitrone said:


> I much prefer the work of Jennifer Saunders. Comic Strip, Young Ones, Ab Fab etc... I always found Victoria Wood a bit too twee for my taste.


 
I meant to say that I would consider Jennifer Saunders on a par with Ronnie Barker, but not Victoria Wood.


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## Clair De Lune (Sep 26, 2010)

I agree. Woods songs make me cringe, she is a decent enough writer though.


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## lontok09 (Sep 26, 2010)

Find her very hit and miss, and not on a par at all with Ronnie Barker, but she does have one of my favourite lines, in the university interview sketch:

Interviewer: What was the last book you read?
VW:            Othello. It's a book by William Shakespeare of the Royal Shakespeare Company. I've got the book and I've got it on little cards as well.
Interviewer: What do you think is the main theme of Othello?
VW:            Oh, I don't think it's got one really. It's just various people talking... and, um, sometimes they do things in brackets.


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## aqua (Sep 26, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Don't know much about her earlier stuff, really, aside from the "Let's do it" song, but I had to get the Dinnerladies box set. It's brilliant. Very well observed, and in a weird way I quite fancied Bren. The bit with the brass band...something in my eye...


 the brass band part was the first time I really cried at a sitcom. 

I love Victoria Wood, I love Ronnie Barker but for totally different reasons. I have a lot of time for VW except for Acorn Antiques


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## Saffy (Sep 26, 2010)

I love them both but Victoria Wood has me crying with laughter.

I went to the Acorn Antiques musical a few years ago and loved it, Julie Walters was just fantastic.


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## JWH (Sep 26, 2010)

trashpony said:


> I love her - think she's massively underrated (probably because she's female and northern). I have never found the two ronnies funny but I didn't grow up with them ...


Q: would Wood have ever got on TV if she weren't Northern and female? Isn't that what makes her distinctive? Otherwise she'd just be another vaguely amusing old-fashioned sketch shows - where is Russ Abbott now? 


tarannau said:


> Wood always seemed a little behind the times. She's mildly amusing, but by the time she starts with the comedy songs I'm reaching for the flicker in distress.





spliff said:


> Dinner Ladies is a brilliantly crafted sit-com I would put it in the same realms as Fawlty Towers.


 
Oh, Christ, I'd forgotten about the comedy songs. Again - Jasper Carrot. Dinner Ladies was ten years behind being a run-of-the-mill sitcom.


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2010)

_not trusted, not valued, not needed not funny._


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## QueenOfGoths (Sep 27, 2010)

Used to like her when i was a young tennager, partly because she was then one of the few female comedy performers on TV, however now I would much rather watch an episode of "Porridge", "Open All Hours" or "The Two Ronnies" than one of her sketch shows. Can't comment on Dinner Ladies as I have never seen it.


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## stupid dogbot (Sep 27, 2010)

Saw the end of the show about her on BBC1 the other night. Parents used to watch her a lot when I were younger.

Perhaps suprisingly, many of the sketches and songs still seemed pretty funny.


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## Melinda (Sep 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> _not trusted, not valued, not needed not funny._


Quite a bitter article that.

'and like a lot of quiet people has a trace of passive aggression, landing sly blows before retreating back into her shell.'


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## JWH (Sep 27, 2010)

Melinda said:


> Quite a bitter article that.


 
"It's not a celebrity huff. It's a working person's huff, and I think it's a justified huff, and it's on behalf of all of us who feel miffed and sidelined and overly interfered with."

Aww, boo-fucking-hoo, your TV programme was shown on Christmas Eve instead of Christmas Day. You really do speak on behalf of the downtrodden, don't you?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/sep/27/victoria-wood-bbc-comedy-decca-aitkenhead


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

Hardly anyone compares to Barker. Victoria Wood certainly doesn't, i don't rate her at all. But horses for courses. Dinner ladies was trite.


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2010)

JWH said:


> "It's not a celebrity huff. It's a working person's huff, and I think it's a justified huff, and it's on behalf of all of us who feel miffed and sidelined and overly interfered with."
> 
> Aww, boo-fucking-hoo, your TV programme was shown on Christmas Eve instead of Christmas Day. You really do speak on behalf of the downtrodden, don't you?
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/sep/27/victoria-wood-bbc-comedy-decca-aitkenhead


 She sounds like a rich lib-dem, trapped in a fantasy world.


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## QueenOfGoths (Sep 27, 2010)

Melinda said:


> Quite a bitter article that.
> 
> 'and like a lot of quiet people has a trace of passive aggression, landing sly blows before retreating back into her shell.'


 


JWH said:


> "It's not a celebrity huff. It's a working person's huff, and I think it's a justified huff, and it's on behalf of all of us who feel miffed and sidelined and overly interfered with."
> 
> Aww, boo-fucking-hoo, your TV programme was shown on Christmas Eve instead of Christmas Day. You really do speak on behalf of the downtrodden, don't you?
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2010/sep/27/victoria-wood-bbc-comedy-decca-aitkenhead


 
I thought the sections on her upbringing and her relationship with food were quite interesting, I could certainly relate to the latter.


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2010)

> I'm late, and she's waiting on a sofa in her private members' club



I love the north and the working class humour up there.


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2010)

Do they not employ subs on the paper edition of the guardian anymore?


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## JWH (Sep 27, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I thought the sections on her upbringing and her relationship with food were quite interesting, I could certainly relate to the latter.


 
Fucking hell, she's an actress who's had neuroses about food? How unlikely is _that_?    

I'm sure every second female urbanite would have something more interesting or profound about food and body issues to say.


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## QueenOfGoths (Sep 27, 2010)

JWH said:


> Fucking hell, she's an actress who's had neuroses about food? How unlikely is _that_?
> 
> I'm sure every second female urbanite would have something more interesting or profound about food and body issues to say.



I am sure they could, I know they could as I have taken part in threads about food issues etc.., but that doesn't mean to say I didn't find what she said interesting as well. 

The way she described getting through a meal so that you can get onto what you want to eat and that she would rather eat in private rung a chord with me as that is very much how I felt when I did, and still sometimes do, overeat. The main part of that being when I was a drama student and hopeful actress so, yes, I kind of do know about the 'neurosis' that actors have about food

Just because other people may have other things to say about their relationship with food does not negate what she has to say.


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## Kaka Tim (Sep 27, 2010)

Victoria Woods - meh really. Clever - but not very funny.
Ronnie Barker - fantasitc comic actor and genius wordsmith.


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## nightowl (Sep 27, 2010)

Kaka Tim said:


> Victoria Woods - Clever - but not very funny.


 
indeed


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

In terms of female comedy talent I rate Caroline Aherne and Julia Davis more. Although probably because _The Royle Family_ and _Nighty Night_ are more my sense of humour than _The Dinner Ladies_.


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## nightowl (Sep 27, 2010)

dinner ladies was dismal beyond belief. i think she's one of those members of the comedy establishment like lenny henry who's been given pretty much a blank check for several years without actually being that funny


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## Melinda (Sep 27, 2010)

Add Ade Edmundson and Harry Enfield to that unfunny list. 
Although I appreciate Victoria's intellect, her comedy and POV never really spoke to me or my experiences. 

At least Henry, Edmundson and Enfield made me laugh as a child. 


WRT to her tirade against the BBC, R4's Chain Reaction recently had Stephen Merchant interviewing Ade Edmundson who in turn interviewed Ruby Wax. Both interviews were a similar litany of complaints about being sidelined by the BBC/ TV establishment. 

Times change and tastes move on, no one has a god given right to prime time tv space. Comedians in particular get so personally offended, despite the fact they cheerfully took over from the generation before them.


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## nightowl (Sep 27, 2010)

edmundson was funny in the young ones and bottom. 
enfield was funny on the beeb. decision to move to sky was a disaster.
henry was only mildly funny in three of a kind and that's saying something. god knows how he got series after series after series. chef made dinner ladies look like comic genius


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## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2010)

bottom was so shit! (pun intended)


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

I saw bottom about four times, each time completely unplanned, and each time it was the same episode!  (where they go camping).

Not my kind of slap stick. Prefer Harold Lloyd.


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> bottom was so shit! (pun intended)


 
What the hell is wrong with you?


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## nightowl (Sep 27, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> I saw bottom about four times, each time completely unplanned, and each time it was the same episode!  (where they go camping).
> 
> Not my kind of slap stick. Prefer Harold Lloyd.


 
the episode 'culture' where they try and play chess is a work of comic genius, especially the inevitable violence at the end


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## Melinda (Sep 27, 2010)

What I will say for Lenny Henry is he does give younger comedians a leg up. 

Principally Gina Yashere who properly blew up on his show, and very recently Eddie Kadi. 

Lenny Henry's record shop comedy on R4 was ok listening and he seemed happy to hand off most of the key lines to other actors.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> What the hell is wrong with you?


 
i saw it the other day on one of those cheapo comedy channels and remained stony-faced. it's funny when you're 15 but not when you're 37.


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2010)

Madness, utter madness.


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## Melinda (Sep 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> What the hell is wrong with you?


I tend to look out for OU, Suplex, or L_C giving something a slagging  Even if I disagree, I know its generally a considered opinion.

Small, sad smile for RD.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Madness, utter madness.


i take it you like it!


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> i take it you like it!


 
Of course! It's juvenile/adult crossover idiocy at its best.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

Yeah puerile can be good if done cleverly.


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## nightowl (Sep 27, 2010)

genius


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

Nah, Tom and Jerry do it better.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2010)

nightowl said:


> genius




<remains stony-faced>
i like it when vic and bob do that sort of thing, but not those two.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

I did smile at the last bit when he grinned at the camera. The rest was a bit meh.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Nah, Tom and Jerry do it better.


 
deffo!


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2010)

nightowl said:


> genius




Genius


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## goldenecitrone (Sep 27, 2010)

I think Ade's best role was as Eddie Monsoon. Now that was funny.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 27, 2010)

Wood in my opinion isn't all that funny and never really was. Nice clever little songs and ideas but I don't think I have ever laughed at anything she has done, and dinner ladies was just embarrassing.
Barker was so fantastic with words that even if I wasn't laughing I would still be in awe of his talent. I didn't always find him funny but he outshines Wood by a country mile. 

And he wasn't in dinner ladies.


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## AverageJoe (Sep 27, 2010)

Is it not the fact though that most people who havent liked her on this thread are male? I have to be honest, as a bloke meself I dont really find female comedians very funny, and I am not sure why - whether its the delivery, the subject matter or whatever. However, Mrs Joe *loves* female comedians (apart from Yina Gashere, who is just a product of right time, right political place imo). 

Its a wierd thing. Males and Females both find things amusing that the other would. Thats just how it is. Both sexes have some foibles that are funny when they are pointed out by same sex comedians, but not when they are pointed out by the other sex.

For what its worth, I find RB very very clever with his word play etc, but he would not have been what he was without working with Ronnie Corbett. VW is I think more talented, but not necessarily more funny, but equally, wouldnt have been as funny without her sidekicks. 

When I was a kid I smiled at Open All Hours etc, but never gave Victoria Wood a second glance. Now I am older I see the quaintness in the Two Ronnies, but actually find Acorn Antiques really quitefunny in a timeless way.

Humour is just subjective I guess.


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## Melinda (Sep 27, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> (apart from Yina Gashere, who is just a product of right time, right political place imo).


Well I think _your_ opinion is gash.

You dont find Gina Yashere funny or indeed any women, fair comment.  Your pseudo-intellectual rationalisations for this, are of course nonsense, but that's by the by.  

However if you think Gina's success is down to the politically correct climate then I suggest you c+p that opinion to her tour promoters in both the UK _and_ US, plus Comedy Central, Def Jam _and_ Showtime.

Those last three global broadcasters are renowned for commissioning financial and critical failures in order to appease ethnic minorities.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2010)

yeah, you are talking bolllocks, AJ. there are loads of funny women and they are laughed at by both sexes.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

As I said earlier, Aherne and Davis are both great comedy writers and performers. The latter being my favourite of the two.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2010)

those smack the poney lasses were hilarious.


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## ernestolynch (Sep 27, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> It struck me, watching the recent documentary about Victoria Wood, that she's an exceptionally rare and solid talent - no misfires...
> 
> Taste in comedy is individual, and Wood has never been shocking or a firebrand... but she's prhaps unparralleled at what she does.
> 
> ...


 
You are fucking having a laugh. Twee professional northerner bollocks. Barker was a comic genius.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

Pun intended?


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## ernestolynch (Sep 27, 2010)

Reno said:


> Acorn Antiques alone is absolute genius and the only TV series that made me laugh as much is Father Ted.  As Seen on TV was the best comedy series of the 80s. She is a brilliant comic writer, but only an OK comic performer and she was smart enough to realise the comic potential in others. The cast on that show was outstanding. My favourite comedy sketch ever is the one where Julie Walter's plays the ancient, hard of hearing waitress taking an order of soup.
> 
> I never ever got the appeal of Ronnie Barker though.


 
You're a German.


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## Espresso (Sep 27, 2010)

I like them both. And both have written some absolute crackers. 
That aside, for my money Barker is the more complete entertainer because of how he was with other peoples' work. He was a much better actor than Victoria Wood will ever be. Maybe that is because he was a product of his times and he came up through the theatre rep world.


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## JWH (Sep 28, 2010)

If the best one can say about Lenny Henry is that he gave Gina Yashere a break - FMOB...



Melinda said:


> Chain Reaction recently had Stephen Merchant interviewing Ade Edmundson who in turn interviewed Ruby Wax. Both interviews were a similar litany of complaints about being sidelined by the BBC/ TV establishment. Times change and tastes move on, no one has a god given right to prime time tv space. Comedians in particular get so personally offended, despite the fact they cheerfully took over from the generation before them.


 
Exactly. No-one wants to hear Hale & Pace whine to Cannon & Ball about how the phone doesn't ring any more.


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## AverageJoe (Sep 28, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> yeah, you are talking bolllocks, AJ. there are loads of funny women and they are laughed at by both sexes.


 
Fair do's. 

Got any recommendations - I'm all for learning


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## Hollis (Sep 28, 2010)

Julia Davis, Catherine Tate.

Though I agree - Ronny Barker's a whole legue above Victoria Wood.


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## _angel_ (Sep 28, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> yeah, you are talking bolllocks, AJ. there are loads of funny women and they are laughed at by both sexes.


 
Think you'll find plenty of men out there who don't like female comedians much...
I'm not all that keen on Victoria Wood btw, I think I prefer comic actresses to comediennes probably altho I don't really watch a lot of stand up by men either.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2010)

Victoria Wood was only funny when she done songs on the piano and Ronnie was only funny when he went on his rambling jokes in that massive chair. Re: female comedians Jenny Eclair makes me laugh- proper foul mouthed and funny with it. There's also an iranian (I think she prefers Persian) comic who is either funny or I just remember her cos she is pretty. One of the two.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2010)

you're getting barker and corbett mixed up, dotty


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## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Fair do's.
> 
> Got any recommendations - I'm all for learning


 recently, sarah millican has made me laugh


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## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2010)

oh- I never had time for the portly ronnie.


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## Melinda (Sep 28, 2010)

Shappi Khorsandi is the Persian.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 28, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> There's also an iranian (I think she prefers Persian) comic who is either funny or I just remember her cos she is pretty. One of the two.


 
Shappi Khorsandi. She's both funny and pretty.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 28, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> oh- I never had time for the portly ronnie.


 
Not even in Porridge?


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## butchersapron (Sep 28, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Shappi Khorsandi. She's both funny and pretty.


 
Good at cleaning too.


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## goldenecitrone (Sep 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Good at cleaning too.


 
Hoovering up the coke in her private members' club?


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## butchersapron (Sep 28, 2010)

goldenecitrone said:


> Hoovering up the coke in her private members' club?


 
The persian?

Is she a persian chauvinist btw? Why the nationalist affectation?


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## goldenecitrone (Sep 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> The persian?
> 
> Is she a persian chauvinist btw? Why the nationalist affectation?


 
Hoo ha, up the Shah!


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 28, 2010)

She's the daughter of Hadi Khorsandi


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## Melinda (Sep 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> The persian?
> 
> Is she a _*persian chauvinist*_ btw? Why the nationalist affectation?


It may have something to do with that kindly old man Khomeini sending her family into exile and the threat of death squads being sent after her father.


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## butchersapron (Sep 28, 2010)

Why would that make you call yourself persian though? I've only come across monarchy-loyalists doing so.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> The persian?
> 
> Is she a persian chauvinist btw? Why the nationalist affectation?


 

during the recenish uprisings and stuff that went on they had her give comment on BBC breakfast news (which tells you all you need to know about bbc breakfast news). The subject of her prefering to be called Persian came up and she gave some explanation of preferring to identify with the country as it was not as it is. Something like that. I don't know wether she means when they were an empire way back or whether she means when the country was basically a brit oilfield.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Why would that make you call yourself persian though?


 
massive eyes and a flat nose?


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## AverageJoe (Sep 28, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> recently, sarah millican has made me laugh


 
Ah. Now Sarah Millican was on at the weekend with Michael Macintyre, and I have to admit that 'cake pigeon' is very funny. But the rest...meh.

Mrs Joe loved it though.

I dont think I should be castigated because I dont find female stand ups funny, its just the way it is. I'm not trying to analyse why I dont find female comedians funny - I just dont. And maybe thats a bad thing on my part. But we cant all find every comedian funny can we. 

I'd also like to qualify by saying that there are also a *lot* of male comedians who I dont find funny either. If you or I (as if) bothered to do a ratio to female vs male standups I find funny, then I would suggest that ther percentage would be about the same. Except that 10% of male comedians is a significant number, and 10% of female stand ups isnt.

Also, I'll gloss over your initial response ( "yeah, you are talking bolllocks, AJ. there are loads of funny women and they are laughed at by both sexes.") and the fact the you gave me one answer, who also happens to be a female Northern comedienne. I'm not calling you out, as I generally rate a lot of what you say on these boards, but if you are just going to tell me that I talk shite and then push another female Victoria Wood clone at me, then I feel its fair to call you out on being lazy. Educate me.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2010)

it's not my duty to educate you! so hell am i lazy!
you are saying women aren't funny basically and i am telling you you're talking bollocks.
men talk over women all the time (esp on those excrutiating panel shows) and make more noise so we hear their joking more and tune into it, but it's bollocks that women are less funnier.
think of the amount of funnny women there are on this board!


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## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2010)

and if anyone's lazy, it's you, surely, for saying 'i don't find female comedians funny'. maybe you *should* 'try to analyze' this.


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## AverageJoe (Sep 28, 2010)

well, we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess. I was genuinely hoping that you could show me the error of my ways by giving me some clips or names of funny comediennes. 

I guess that you got stuck after one, and then decided to get aggressive. 

Thats cool. And I dont see how actively looking for advice on the subject makes me lazy. I think you are just arguing for the sake of arguing tbh.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2010)

i don't watch much comedy on telly and never go out and watch it so best ask someone else. i saw sarah on the telly recently and thought she was funny, so i mentioned her. i just took exception to what you said cos some of the funniest people i know are female.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2010)

sarah silverman is hilarious. i loved her tv show.
30 rock is ace too.
jenny eclair as mentioned earlier was funny on that c4 prog ages ago with frank skinner.
josie long is just brilliant
ab fab was hilarious mostly
and sara pascoe is v funny.
there's lots of funny women on twitter too. i AM too lazy to list those though.


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## paolo (Sep 28, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> In terms of female comedy talent I rate Caroline Aherne and Julia Davis more. Although probably because _The Royle Family_ and _Nighty Night_ are more my sense of humour than _The Dinner Ladies_.


 
Aherne has a genius touch.

Wood has dated I think. There's a fair bit of Barker that, for me, remains timeless (although not Open All Hours - can't stand most traditional sitcoms).


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## Hollis (Sep 28, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> There's a fair bit of Barker that, for me, remains timeless


 

The phantom raspberry blower?


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## JWH (Sep 29, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> i don't watch much comedy on telly and never go out and watch it so best ask someone else...i just took exception to what you said cos some of the funniest people i know are female.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 29, 2010)

JWH said:


>


 why the facepalm?


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## ernestolynch (Sep 29, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> I saw bottom about four times, each time completely unplanned, and each time it was the same episode!  (where they go camping).
> 
> Not my kind of slap stick. Prefer Harold Lloyd.


 
I agree with Marlboro Man.

I love The Young Ones but I think Bottom is rubbish.


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## AverageJoe (Sep 29, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> sarah silverman is hilarious. i loved her tv show.
> 30 rock is ace too.
> jenny eclair as mentioned earlier was funny on that c4 prog ages ago with frank skinner.
> josie long is just brilliant
> ...


 
Thanks OU, I will check them out. I know most of these, and would also add, Kath and Kim, but these are mostly all old(ish) TV series. I agree that there are a lot of funny women on the boards, but we talking yer actual real life stand up on stage comediennes.

Anyway, cheers


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## yardbird (Sep 29, 2010)

*The consequences of clipping the thread title with the new look.*

Victoria Wood, an equal comedy talent to Ronnie.

Ronnie Wood?
First thing that popped into my mind, and then in the thread someone says 'stony' and 'hoovering up coke'.


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## Santino (Jan 14, 2011)

I've bumped this because I've just remembered something I saw over Christmas. One of the comedy channels (Dave I think) repeated an old Victoria Wood Christmas special from about 10 years ago, the finale of which was based upon the completely absurd premise that the BBC would commission a spectacular dance sequence starring Ann Widdecombe. So there you go.


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## AverageJoe (Jan 14, 2011)

So not just the only funny female comedienne, but also a forune teller! 

She must have got that from hanging around the Great Soprendo....




(and yes, read my earlier posts before banging on about more than one funny female comedienne). Meh


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## imposs1904 (Jan 14, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> sarah silverman is hilarious. i loved her tv show.
> 30 rock is ace too.
> jenny eclair as mentioned earlier was funny on that c4 prog ages ago with frank skinner.
> josie long is just brilliant
> ...


 
+ Amy Poehler in Parks and Recreation

(Does no fucker in Britain watch Parks and Recreation? It was the best comedy on US tv last year.)


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## boerable (Jan 14, 2011)

Anyone who has been working as long as she has is bound to have one or two good bits
Why she's been allow to work this long is totally beyond me

Dinner ladies is like watching the the black and white minstrel show but with northern white people as subject 

If she was a fresh face comedian starting out today i doubt she have fine any success


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## Steel Icarus (Jan 15, 2011)

boerable said:


> Dinner ladies is like watching the the black and white minstrel show but with northern white people as subject



No, it's not. Ridiculous comment.


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## krtek a houby (Apr 20, 2016)

I only recently started watching Dinner Ladies & have found myself enjoying it. RIP, Victoria.

Comedian Victoria Wood dies aged 62 - BBC News


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## Saffy (Apr 20, 2016)

I'm pretty gutted about Victoria Wood's death, I've so many happy memories or watch her shows as a kid with my family. I even went to see Acorn Antique's the musical.


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## Santino (Apr 20, 2016)

Fuck


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## neonwilderness (Apr 20, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> I only recently started watching Dinner Ladies & have found myself enjoying it. RIP, Victoria.
> 
> Comedian Victoria Wood dies aged 62 - BBC News


It's quite an underrated series, but I liked it along with most of her other stuff. 

Coincidentally I was watching a documentary about Julie Walters the other days which featured loads of clips of this and stuff like Acorn Antiques.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 20, 2016)

i feel really guilty now because i was just coming to this thread to say i didn't think she was the equal of rb 

which would be nothing to be ashamed of because only a handful of comedians/comediennes/whatever are imo


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## lizzieloo (Apr 20, 2016)

I was just gonna say what a big fan I am of hers.

Proper sad


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## Pickman's model (Apr 20, 2016)




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## littlebabyjesus (Apr 20, 2016)

Many moments of genius, and properly generous - would often give the best lines to others.


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## lizzieloo (Apr 20, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 86013



She'd like that


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## Sirena (Apr 20, 2016)

I thought she was absolutely brilliant and she was a proper genuine sort.

I think this was my favourite of her sketches (I presume it was hers).  It's so slow, it's mesmerising, though (like Ronnie Barker's Four Candles sketch) it's spoiled a bit by the clumsy punchline...


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## krtek a houby (Apr 20, 2016)

Proper thread here:

RIP Victoria Wood


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## Artaxerxes (Apr 20, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i feel really guilty now because i was just coming to this thread to say i didn't think she was the equal of rb



She wasn't, she was better

Arses


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## lizzieloo (Apr 20, 2016)

Sirena said:


> I thought she was absolutely brilliant and she was a proper genuine sort.
> 
> I think this was my favourite of her sketches (I presume it was hers).  It's so slow, it's mesmerising, though (like Ronnie Barker's Four Candles sketch) it's spoiled a bit by the lack of punchline...




I was almost beside myself when I saw this exhibit at a museum


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## lizzieloo (Apr 20, 2016)




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## Sea Star (Apr 20, 2016)

I'm not a fan of Barker. I just don't get him at all. Leaves me cold. 

Victoria wood on the other hand - flipping genius!!


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## Sea Star (Apr 20, 2016)

ska invita said:


> growing up as a teen i was always a bit too cool to like her - it was all a bit too middle of the road - but then dinnerladies won me over - got them on dvd  very affectionate comedy. id lvoe to go back and see the older stuff - especially as seen on


I always had to fight to watch dinner Ladies - I loved it but was always made to feel like an idiot for that by whoever was with me.


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## twentythreedom (Apr 20, 2016)

I'd much rather have gone to the pub with her tbh

Corbett had the best coke though


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## Reno (Apr 20, 2016)

AuntiStella said:


> I'm not a fan of Barker. I just don't get him at all. Leaves me cold.
> 
> Victoria wood on the other hand - flipping genius!!


Same here. I used to go out with someone, twelve years older than me, who was a huge fan of The Two Ronnies and I didn't get it at all. I loved As Seen on TV, being in hysterics over Acorn Antiques which he didn't get. I think he was someone who generally didn't find women funny. The relationship didn't last.


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## dessiato (Apr 20, 2016)

There's a lot of people from my youth dying this year. RIP Victoria.


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## Sea Star (Apr 20, 2016)

Reno said:


> Same here. I used to go out with someone, twelve years older than me, who was a huge fan of The Two Ronnies and I didn't get it at all. I loved As Seen on TV, being in hysterics over Acorn Antiques which he didn't get. I think he was someone who generally didn't find women funny. The relationship didn't last.


Whenever I watch Two Ronnie's I'm painfully aware of the racist and homophobic content as well as the complete lack of humourous content. Wheras Victoria Wood as far as I can remember never went for obvious cheap gags at other peoples expense. Was always celebrating rather than mocking, I felt.


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## spanglechick (Apr 20, 2016)

Forgive me for the weird comparison in the OP. If I recall, there had been a big documentary glorying in the legacy of Barker not long before the Victoria Wood do I mention in the OP. 


Anyway, it's an interesting thread.  For me, the joy of Wood's writing was the range of perceptively-drawn characters.  Acorn Antiques and "two soups" for me paled beside the bored teenagers, frustrated middle aged women, dieters, hikers, students, shop assistants, menopausal women, fake and vapid TV presenters and so on.   Unlike, say, Saunders, her  bestcharacters were everyday British women.  Overwhelmingly working class.   Communicating something instantly recognisable as "how things are", but also so rarely spoken out loud.  

Tracey Ullman's recent disappointing series nevertheless intrigued me with how rare it feels still to see sketch after sketch with female characters front and centre.   If it's still notable in 2016, Victoria Wood was a true trailblazer in the early eighties... And not just female characters, but unglamorous, "unsexy", working class women.

It's a disturbing truism in teaching, that in mixed gender classes, a book with predominantly female characters will often* be rejected by boys, while male-dominant stories are accepted without question by girls.  In a patriarchy, is it surprising that we prefer male comedy characters to female?


*edit. Not The Hunger Games, though.  Ime, boys and girls like that.


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## Plumdaff (Apr 20, 2016)

spanglechick great post. Throughout my life, Victoria Wood wrote stuff that was about women I recognised, about the kind of life I recognised. She wrote a skillful, polished version of what women sound like when they laugh together.


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## spanglechick (Apr 20, 2016)

A friend of my sister posted on fb her own treasured memory of Wood.

They were at an awards do (mate is a very minor-league daytime telly producer.)

L: two awards! You must feel really pleased. 
Victoria Wood: yep
L : you write such interesting characters. Where do you get your inspiration from?
Victoria Wood: people like you...


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