# Homework for primary school children - yay or nay?



## trashpony (Feb 5, 2009)

My nephew really struggles with the amount of homework he has which isn't helped by the fact that he has ASD. It means that at well as quite a few evenings, at least one day during the weekend is taken over by homework and it's very fraught.

I'd be interested in people's perspectives on this, particularly the teachers. Do you think it's it a good idea? Does it prepare you for secondary school or is it a waste of time? I know that some of his homework doesn't even get looked at by the teacher.


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## electrogirl (Feb 5, 2009)

Crikey, I don't know, I know I never had any homework at primary school except the odd project to make a board game or something. Or learning spellings.

I was actually excited about getting homework when I got to secondary school.

My instinct is to day that it seems excessive, but maybe that's just because of my experience.


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## fractionMan (Feb 5, 2009)

Homework at primary school sounds like a nightmare.  

Optional homework might be a better solution.


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## Thora (Feb 5, 2009)

The two I look after have reading and spellings (Year 2) and phonics worksheet things with words to sound out (reception).  I think that's about right, and actually useful for them, but most homework beyond reading/spelling/times tables for primary kids is ridiculous.


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## Strumpet (Feb 5, 2009)

I think kids should get some homework in last 2 years of Juniors. Not loads though. Minime gets spelling tests but not every week and she gets a sheet with mebbe 10 questions on. It's usually twice a week. One being maths and the other is English. She's 9.


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## Fruitloop (Feb 5, 2009)

A couple of times a week sounds reasonable.


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## ringo (Feb 5, 2009)

Same as Thora I think. Mine is in year 1 and I railed against the idea of her getting homework. As it turned out it's a small bit of reading and spelling. She really enjoys it, I get to help just a little in her learning, and I know exactly how she's doing and what stage she's at.

If there were more of it I'd be against it, but so far it seems well balanced and very useful.


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## trashpony (Feb 5, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> I think kids should get some homework in last 2 years of Juniors. Not loads though. Minime gets spelling tests but not every week and she gets a sheet with mebbe 10 questions on. It's usually twice a week. One being laths and the other is English. She's 9.



That's really interesting. My nephew is 8 and gets about double that. On Sunday he had a page with 60 maths questions on it which he had been given on Thursday and had to get back by Monday. He is in London - does it vary by authority?


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## trashpony (Feb 5, 2009)

Sorry can you tell me how old year 2 is? I didn't go to school here and so I don't know


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## zenie (Feb 5, 2009)

6-7

Is 60 maths questions excessive? I'm sure they expect the parents to help don't they?


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## Strumpet (Feb 5, 2009)

That sounds a lot trashy!! Sixty questions at 8?? Maybe teaching methods are different but they have the same curriculum to follow, don't they?!  
Year 2 is ermm age 6 I think . .


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## trashpony (Feb 5, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> That sounds a lot trashy!! Sixty questions at 8?? Maybe teaching methods are different but they have the same curriculum to follow, don't they?!
> Year 2 is ermm age 6 I think . .



I thought it was loads too - glad it's not just me. I guess he must be in year 3 then. He will be 9 in August.

Is it optional? What happens if you don't do it? Do you (as the parent) get a Stern Talking To at parents' evenings??


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## Strumpet (Feb 5, 2009)

Minime is in Yr5 and is 9 so work back. .


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## tangentlama (Feb 5, 2009)

No. It's a waste of these kids' valuable playing and sleep time. 

Who wants them to stay up late to do homework? 
At their age they should be in bed by 7pm. 
The five-year olds I know are exhausted by 6.00m One eight-year old I know falls asleep at 7pm on the dot. 

They don't benefit from having to do homework in my opinion.


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## Maggot (Feb 5, 2009)

I never had homework at primary school. Am completely against it. I bet it hasn't improved literacy or numeracy.


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## tangentlama (Feb 5, 2009)

My literacy is very good. If homework had been forced upon my mum, with two other kids to care for younger than me and a dad who worked away, I would have become upset and she would feel frustrated. I would have lost my small amount of me-and-mum closeness time which you can't get from doing sums or literacy work.

Reading books are fine though - these aren't really homework at Primary school level.


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## tangentlama (Feb 5, 2009)

Maggot said:


> I never had homework at primary school. Am completely against it. I bet it hasn't improved literacy or numeracy.



I expect it's no good for primary teachers either - the ones I know don't get much free evening time to unwind and reflect on the school-day as it is.


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## TheDave (Feb 5, 2009)

When I was primary school any homework we had was optional hence it never got done. I always read books from the school library after school though, I think that is better for young children then set homework.


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## _angel_ (Feb 5, 2009)

trashpony said:


> That's really interesting. My nephew is 8 and gets about double that. On Sunday he had a page with 60 maths questions on it which he had been given on Thursday and had to get back by Monday. He is in London - does it vary by authority?



Poor kid. That is way excessive. At primary school all we ever had to do was learn spellings and, later on, times tables.


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## idioteque (Feb 5, 2009)

I think a bit of homework would be good. I never did any at primary school, and always forgot or didn't bother at secondary school and college. Now I'm at uni and find it seriously difficuly to work at a steady pace, and I always leave things to the last minute, and don't do as well as I know I can. Maybe if I'd started doing homework properly when I was at primary school age I might be able to focus and study better now, as I'd be used to setting time aside and working at a sensible pace.


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## tangentlama (Feb 5, 2009)

idioteque said:


> I think a bit of homework would be good. I never did any at primary school, and always forgot or didn't bother at secondary school and college. Now I'm at uni and find it seriously difficuly to work at a steady pace, and I always leave things to the last minute, and don't do as well as I know I can. Maybe if I'd started doing homework properly when I was at primary school age I might be able to focus and study better now, as I'd be used to setting time aside and working at a sensible pace.



All you need is a diary and some willpower. You can have that now, even though you never were set homework back then. Why think that your past is to blame for a problem in the now? I don't think it is.


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 5, 2009)

I suspect that a lot of the homework set in secondary schools is entirely unnecessary and is created by teachers because the school demands it of them.  The school Senior Management Team in its turn is only insisting on the regular homework because of pressure from the parents.  

Parents want their children to succeed and identify working hard at school with that aim.  Homework also gives the parents a chance to see what their offspring are doing at school.  In some cases I suspect the parents want their children kept busy with homework so as to keep the children quiet and out of the hair of the parents.

I think that occasional project work partly done at home would be better.  It would act as the necessary practice for when the GCSE exams are being taken because in some subjects there is a massive load of coursework.


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## _angel_ (Feb 5, 2009)

idioteque said:


> I think a bit of homework would be good. I never did any at primary school, and always forgot or didn't bother at secondary school and college. Now I'm at uni and find it seriously difficuly to work at a steady pace, and I always leave things to the last minute, and don't do as well as I know I can. Maybe if I'd started doing homework properly when I was at primary school age I might be able to focus and study better now, as I'd be used to setting time aside and working at a sensible pace.



I managed it somehow, despite the homeworky-liteness of primary school.

I think what TP posted sounds excessive for a little kid, poor thing. No wonder so many of them get fed up with education so early on.


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## idioteque (Feb 5, 2009)

tangentlama said:


> All you need is a diary and some willpower. You can have that now, even though you never were set homework back then. Why think that your past is to blame for a problem in the now? I don't think it is.



I'm not saying it's all because of the lack of homework at primary school that I'm crap at self-motivation now, I just think that for me at least it would have been good to get in the habit of doing some work at home on a regular basis.


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## scifisam (Feb 5, 2009)

trashpony said:


> I thought it was loads too - glad it's not just me. I guess he must be in year 3 then. He will be 9 in August.
> 
> Is it optional? What happens if you don't do it? Do you (as the parent) get a Stern Talking To at parents' evenings??



He'll be year 4, then. The last year of primary school is year 6, FYI. 

If you don't do it then yes, you might get a stern talking to, but that's as much as they can do. My daughter doesn't always complete her homework, because the literacy homework is way, way too easy and the numeracy is way, way too hard. I told the teacher that she wasn't going to do it - we do workbooks and other stuff like that at home anyway, and I'm not going to take away from that time in order to make her do something pointless. 

It definitely does sound like he's getting too much homework for his age. A small amount of homework is a good idea, because it helps with the third stage of learning, where you think about what you've learned and makes it really stick in your memory. But that should be only an hour or so's work a week at that age. 



Hocus Eye. said:


> I suspect that a lot of the homework set in secondary schools is entirely unnecessary and is created by teachers because the school demands it of them.  The school Senior Management Team in its turn is only insisting on the regular homework because of pressure from the parents.
> 
> Parents want their children to succeed and identify working hard at school with that aim.  Homework also gives the parents a chance to see what their offspring are doing at school.  In some cases I suspect the parents want their children kept busy with homework so as to keep the children quiet and out of the hair of the parents.
> 
> I think that occasional project work partly done at home would be better.  It would act as the necessary practice for when the GCSE exams are being taken because in some subjects there is a massive load of coursework.



Agreed - secondary school kids should have homework, but the amount they get is excessive at some schools. The year 7s at one school I taught in got at least 2 hours of homework a night and more at weekends.


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## LilMissHissyFit (Feb 5, 2009)

_angel_ said:


> I managed it somehow, despite the homeworky-liteness of primary school.
> 
> I think what TP posted sounds excessive for a little kid, poor thing. No wonder so many of them get fed up with education so early on.



I agree with this... especially if its creating extra issues due to his SEN I would personaly go in and ensure its written into his IEP ( individual education plan- every SEN child has one) when homework will be set, in which subjects and thats stuck to... Its pointless creating an issue where there doesnt need to be one and it seems thats what school are doing, however inadvertently


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## trashpony (Feb 5, 2009)

LilMissHissyFit said:


> I agree with this... especially if its creating extra issues due to his SEN I would personaly go in and ensure its written into his IEP ( individual education plan- every SEN child has one) when homework will be set, in which subjects and thats stuck to... Its pointless creating an issue where there doesnt need to be one and it seems thats what school are doing, however inadvertently



Thanks, that's what I think and having yours and angel's perspective is really useful. I agree that my sister needs to go in and discuss with his teacher how they address it. He gets loads of help in class but I suspect he gets the same homework as all the other kids. I know my sister has found his dx quite hard to cope with so I wonder if that's why she hasn't raised it. She's quite proud and doesn't like to admit defeat but I think in this case it's quite self-defeating (although overall I have to say his new school is brilliant - he loves going whereas he says he wants to burn his old one down )


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## q_w_e_r_t_y (Feb 5, 2009)

My children (age 6 & 7) get reading - about 7 pages; maths - usually about 10 questions and writing - copying four words out three times and making a sentence from one of them.  They also get a joint homework task of drawing

Or at least they did - tomorrow is the last day that they go to that school - thankfully!


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## ivebeenhigh (Feb 5, 2009)

i think its a brilliant idea. I had a huge head start in my education by going to infants school in Northern Ireland where homework was mandatory.


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## catinthehat (Feb 6, 2009)

Little bits that encourage independent learning are fine imo but this is way to much.  I don't teach primary but I do teach young adults and many of them come to us with an almost tangible hate of what they see as learning - it takes a lot to get them into studying and sometimes we/they cant.  Once you start to associate any type of learning with stress, tension and argument it stops being fun and turns kids off.  I suspect this will be linked to school achievement levels and such.  No bloody wonder so many kids are presecribed Ritalin if schools are being turned into a test passing factory.


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## BlueSquareThing (Feb 6, 2009)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I suspect that a lot of the homework set in secondary schools is entirely unnecessary and is created by teachers because the school demands it of them.



As a secondary school teacher...

I agree entirely (particularly below Year 10).

I rarely set very much in the way of homework other than the odd exam style question - if they need extra they come and catch up. I do mainly teach IT though so that's probably a bit different.


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## geminisnake (Feb 6, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> Homework at primary school sounds like a nightmare.
> 
> Optional homework might be a better solution.



Not sure about down south but up here homework IS optional, even at secondary level. The school cannot force your child to do homework.

I think more than 5/10 minutes reading/writing of an evening is excessive and tbh if I had known homework was optional or if boy had ever had excessive amounts I would have told them to shove it.


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## scifisam (Feb 6, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> As a secondary school teacher...
> 
> I agree entirely (particularly below Year 10).
> 
> I rarely set very much in the way of homework other than the odd exam style question - if they need extra they come and catch up. I do mainly teach IT though so that's probably a bit different.



I tend not to set much, either. I have to set _some_, and I've been told off before for not setting 'the right kind of homework,' because it's not always the kind that involves writing lots and lots on a piece of paper. It's often research, or choosing a newspaper article to bring in, or keeping a diary, or learning spellings for a test (where they get marks for _improving_ their score). I was told to set more worksheets and long written assignments. As if having them research a writer enough to be able to talk about that writer for two minutes in class isn't real work. (Two minutes lasts a lot longer than you'd think = and any longer would mean that there wasn't time to hear their mini-presentation).


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## Piers Gibbon (Feb 6, 2009)

and it sounds great Scifisam that you are getting them to say stuff out loud in front of each other...speaking your mind is really important for everything in life I reckon. If anyone dares to say your homework is easy just call it PUBLIC PRESENTATION PRACTICE and ask the complainer whether they have any fear of public speaking, at all, ever...... ;-)


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## catinthehat (Feb 6, 2009)

I frequently set thinking homework.  Or walking homework - I got a group to go for a walk in two contrasting areas of the town and note the difference in trees, street furniture, graffiti and what not.  Stuff that cant be done in class.


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## BlueSquareThing (Feb 6, 2009)

catinthehat said:


> I frequently set thinking homework.  Or walking homework - I got a group to go for a walk in two contrasting areas of the town and note the difference in trees, street furniture, graffiti and what not.  Stuff that cant be done in class.



Ah, that's my kind of geography 

I think I set a homework once to be nice to someone at home that week. I may have been told to make sure I set some...


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## Cloo (Feb 10, 2009)

Parents' attitude to this is interesting. I remember when I was a school governor hearing one set of parents (moved to the Uk from Jamaica) concerned about the 'lack' of homework at a parents evening. Whereas I'd also heard that some parents complained about having to help their kids with homework, because they didn't really have the time.

This was a good few years ago, and I since then, homework has become very much seen as a 'tool' to 'reach' parents, so a lot of homework is overtly supposed to be done with a parent, which I imagine some enjoy and others find an unacceptable pressure on their time. 

I've also heard of some homework which is supposed to be about health etc but is actually rather sinister, along the lines of homework reporting on what a child's family eats every week or how much physical activity they do. Which is distinctly dodgy to my mind....


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## Funky_monks (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't think homework, especially at primary age serves any useful function, but then, I'm not a teacher. 

My mother, however, is a Primary Head with almost 40 years experience in the profession, and she thinks it is pointless too. Home is for playing and doing family things.


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## weepiper (Feb 10, 2009)

I think set homework is useful in the last couple of years of primary school... but when they're little there really isn't enough time in the day. My eldest is in Primary 1 (equivalent to Y1 in England I think?) and because she comes home on the bus she doesn't get home til 4.20pm. She has to go to bed by 7pm or she's knackered and emotional next day. We have to fit having tea, bath, bedtime routine etc into that short time-slot and I just think she deserves a chance to chill out and do her own thing after school at this age so quite often her reading homework doesn't get done - I'll usually try but if she's tired and wobbly I don't force it.


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## scifisam (Feb 10, 2009)

Cloo said:


> I've also heard of some homework which is supposed to be about health etc but is actually rather sinister, along the lines of homework reporting on what a child's family eats every week or how much physical activity they do. Which is distinctly dodgy to my mind....



My daughter had that once, not for the whole family's diet but for her own. It was just a way to personalise lessons about healthy eating and get kids to think about what they're putting in their bodies. Her teacher was slightly frustrated that there was no way she could recommend my daughter's diet could be improved.  (This was before she started eating like Michael Phelps).


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## northeastoipunk (Feb 10, 2009)

i never ever did homework , i ended up with a joinery apprentiship and a building craft foundation degree , and ran me own business for ten years


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## Gavin Bl (Feb 11, 2009)

mine started getting homework in yr2, she's yr3 now (7-8yo) and gets regular literacy and numeracy homework each week. I think its fine, its only meant to be 20mins per subject, but the problem is stopping it stretch past that when the questions are open ended.

She usually gets it on Friday, I insist its done on the weekend, precisely to avoid the scenario of doing it at 7pm on a school night.

I tend to give mine 5-10mins of sums most nights anyway tbh.


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## weepiper (Sep 15, 2011)

My eldest is now 8 (in Primary 4 up here, not sure what Year that translates to in English schooling) and I've just had to write a letter to her teacher explaining why some of her homework hasn't been done this week - because there's just so bloody _much_ of it  (I managed not to use that phrase though)

This week we have had:

4 chapters of a reading book (that's not a problem, she reads happily and fast)
'predict what you think will happen next' in the reading book
a page of questions where they had to underline the common nouns in one colour and the proper nouns in another colour, then had to draw pictures representing three more common nouns and three more proper nouns of their own choosing
a page of sums
ten spelling words to learn
a 'spelling task' for each day of the week, such as 'write a story using ALL of your spelling words. Underline the spelling words in the paragraph' and 'draw and colour a picture. Hide your spelling words inside the picture. Show it to someone to see if they can find the hidden words' (wtf?) which apparently the teacher doesn't even want to _see_  but the parents have to sign that it's been done for each day.

This is all to be done between Monday and Friday. Some of these things she's come home with and told me they're supposed to be handed in the next day as well. It's just impossible, there's only me at home to supervise and I have her two younger brothers to divide attention amongst too - finding enough peace and quiet in a small 3-bed flat with 4 people living in it is not easy. And on Wednesdays and Thursdays I work and we don't even get home til 6pm, then I have to get their tea, they have to eat it, and have a little time to themselves before bed surely? She's only 8 FFS! I'm worried that she's going to get into trouble for me writing a letter saying there's too much homework now as apparently she asked the teacher for some harder reading books because the ones she's getting are too easy (and it's true, it's the sort of thing her little brother can read, with a picture on every page - at home she reads things like Terry Pratchett's kids' books) and the teacher said she was very rude and told her to sit down


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## nagapie (Sep 15, 2011)

I think homework at primary school beyond some reading and the odd fun project here and there is ridiculous, particularly in the first two years when they're too young for formal learning anyway and it's only the stupid education system that insists they start school.

Unfortunately there is a real punitive trend in education these days. It's all about being more strict. Both government and a lot of parents seem to support more homework, more tests, longer schooldays and military style discipline.

Tp, if your nephew is at a state primary, they are probably pushing the homework in the hope of raising attainment and attracting more parents who favour this sort of model. But the fact that he likes his school suggests they must be good in other areas, I just hope it stays that way if they keep on putting so much academic pressure on him.


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## equationgirl (Sep 16, 2011)

weepiper said:


> My eldest is now 8 (in Primary 4 up here, not sure what Year that translates to in English schooling) and I've just had to write a letter to her teacher explaining why some of her homework hasn't been done this week - because there's just so bloody _much_ of it  (I managed not to use that phrase though)
> 
> This week we have had:
> 
> ...



That seems to like way too much homework for an eight year old. Even if she has an advanced reading age, it's still going to take a while to do even half of that, and it's just not fair on a child of that age. And as for the teacher's behaviour - utterly disgraceful. She should be encouraged to expand her reading ability and range.

My mum taught me to read before I went to school, so when I got to primary school I had the highest reading age in the class. This mean that I got to choose my reading book from the shelf for the year above, and was encouraged to read as many of those books as I could. Everyone was encourage to read at my primary school. I am impressed she is reading Terry Pratchett, one of my favourite authors too, he is incredibly imaginative and I feel that imagination is a 'skill' (couldn't think of a better word) not really encouraged either, when it should be.

If I couldn't find anything to read, I read my mum's library books. Or my Dad's computing magazine. I wouldn't necessarily understand all of it but I would ask my Dad about stuff if I got stuck.


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## wayward bob (Sep 16, 2011)

that sounds like a massive amount to me weeps. for comparison kid1 is 8 and she gets spellings once a week as her only regular homework. she has the odd project to be done over the holidays and she was doing something making a landscape earlier in the week but i've no idea if that was _set_ homework or just something she decided to do herself. she has keyboard practice too but that's an extracurricular thing.

it seems to be very much down to the ethos of the individual school how much homework they set, rather than any kind of blanket policy - our school has a somewhat "challenging" catchment and is less academically focussed than the one down the road for example. they have much more homework than our lot do.


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## TruXta (Sep 16, 2011)

It's a load of bollocks assigning homework for any kids under the age of 14-16 I'd say. What's school for anyway, if not somewhere to do your learning? At a later stage assigning homework can be a good way of preparing kids for Uni, as doing well there demands a bit of discipline and motivation to get things done on your own.


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## wayward bob (Sep 16, 2011)

TruXta said:


> It's a load of bollocks assigning homework for any kids under the age of 14-16 I'd say. What's school for anyway, if not somewhere to do your learning? At a later stage assigning homework can be a good way of preparing kids for Uni, as doing well there demands a bit of discipline and motivation to get things done on your own.



i don't really agree with this. i think it's helpful to learn at a fairly early age that regular practice is useful to get the hang of tricky stuff, and that a certain amount of self-discipline pays off. but i see kid1 learning this much better through her music practice than what little homework she has. it helps though that she's pretty self motivated and keeps on top of her homework herself - she likes it. but then again, she spent half the holidays playing schools  no child of mine...


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## _angel_ (Sep 16, 2011)

nagapie said:


> I think homework at primary school beyond some reading and the odd fun project here and there is ridiculous, particularly in the first two years when they're too young for formal learning anyway and it's only the stupid education system that insists they start school.
> 
> Unfortunately there is a real punitive trend in education these days. It's all about being more strict. Both government and a lot of parents seem to support more homework, more tests, longer schooldays and military style discipline.



It does seem to be getting pretty stupid like that. That's way too much for an 8 year old kid.


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## trashpony (Sep 16, 2011)

I have no memory of starting this thread 

weeps - that sounds like a ridiculous amount to me  What do other parents think? I wonder if it is just this teacher that gives so much homework or if it is what all the children in the year get? She's going to be up until 9pm to finish that lot

Incidentally my nephew who I posted about at the outset has just started secondary school and his moaning about homework has reached stratospheric new levels


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## danny la rouge (Sep 16, 2011)

trashpony said:


> I have no memory of starting this thread


Weird subject to pick when you're that drunk...


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## trashpony (Sep 16, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Weird subject to pick when you're that drunk...


I doubt I was drunk - it was 2pm. It was two years ago tho. Do you remember all your threads from two years ago?


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## danny la rouge (Sep 16, 2011)

I don't remember all my threads from today!


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## weltweit (Sep 16, 2011)

ringo said:


> Same as Thora I think. Mine is in year 1 and I railed against the idea of her getting homework. As it turned out it's a small bit of reading and spelling. She really enjoys it, I get to help just a little in her learning, and I know exactly how she's doing and what stage she's at.
> 
> If there were more of it I'd be against it, but so far it seems well balanced and very useful.



I tend to agree with you.

It should not be very much, but some won't do any harm and permits parents to keep an eye over their progress.


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## weepiper (Sep 16, 2011)

trashpony said:


> weeps - that sounds like a ridiculous amount to me  What do other parents think? I wonder if it is just this teacher that gives so much homework or if it is what all the children in the year get? She's going to be up until 9pm to finish that lot



exactly, it's just silly, I'm not going to have her not getting enough sleep because of homework 

I spoke to a couple of other parents in the playground this morning and the consensus seemed to be that it was ok and their kids were coping with it. They're both stay at home parents throughout the week though so they have more time to sit and supervise... also live in big houses where it's possible for their daughters to find a quiet space for half an hour. It's a _terribly_ middle class area (there's a steady drip of kids moving to nearby private schools as they get older from this school) and I think there's a lot of parents who think lots of homework is a good thing. Many of them either have one parent who stays at home every day or a nanny though.


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## TruXta (Sep 16, 2011)

wayward bob said:


> i don't really agree with this. i think it's helpful to learn at a fairly early age that regular practice is useful to get the hang of tricky stuff, and that a certain amount of self-discipline pays off. but i see kid1 learning this much better through her music practice than what little homework she has. it helps though that she's pretty self motivated and keeps on top of her homework herself - she likes it. but then again, she spent half the holidays playing schools  no child of mine...



Regular practice, both supervised and unsupervised (ie also teaching independence and self-discipline) can easily be done in school. I just think that having lots of homework makes life a lot harder for both kids and parents. If a kid loves school that much, there's nothing to stop them from doing school-work at home if they so choose. I'm just saying it should be a choice, not compulsory.


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## wayward bob (Sep 16, 2011)

TruXta said:


> I just think that having lots of homework makes life a lot harder for both kids and parents.



totally agree with this.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 16, 2011)

That's far too much homework weeps. The only reason I can imagine for giving a child so much homework is if they are not completing the work in class or the teacher is sending work which out to be done in class and they have to say that they work has been done or, as it seems in your case, the teacher is just ticking boxes to say that work has been set. Why set so much work when you won't even see it or mark it?

You're quite right go send the letter and I'd speak to the head if the homework doesnt decrease.
I would also speak to the teacher about the reading books, I didn't make my son read the books they sent home becaus either were picture books and far, far too easy for him. Nobody had assessed his reading ability and given him appropriate reading and I didn't see why I should hamper his enjoyment of reading by making hi tick off their boxes.

Last year, when he was 8, his class ha homework like reading and a few spellings a week, some times tables and a weekly project. The teacher would give them a letter and the children created a project based on that letter about ANYTHING. most enjoyable homework ever.
That's good homework, work which stimulates them and uses their imagination. Tells the teacher a great deal about their interests, favoured working methods (EG drawing, writing, crafting or PowerPointing as the case may be) and gives the experience of presenting and sharing ideas with the class. That's the only homework primary school kids should have in my opinion.


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## strange-fish (Sep 20, 2011)

My kids who are now grown up went to a local primary in what would be considered 'the countryside' oop north. It had such an excellent reputation that people from outside the 'catchment' were always wanting to get their kids in.  The head was totally against formal homework, until the last year when small amounts were given (not compulsory) in order to get them ready for secondary school.  Towards my son's final years there more 'middle class' people moved into the area and suddenly they all wanted their kids to have homework???  There was an expectation that they would not learn enough unless they had homework -  I even knew one family who insisted on it ! WHY - the Head's attitude was his school wasn't doing it's job if they couldn't teach what was needed and more during school hours. Out of school was for playing, socialising, spending time with family and friends, having a childhood!!!


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## trashpony (Sep 20, 2011)

I keep waiting for homework or a reading book. But nothing so far. Which is good because at the age of four he is fucking *knackered* when he gets home, even though he's only doing mornings at the moment. I'm really surprised at how exhausted school makes him


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## gaijingirl (Sep 20, 2011)

I'm with Elliot!


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## spanglechick (Sep 20, 2011)

i just want to reiterate what hocus eye said on page one.

most teachers hate homework. it's extra work for us, the quality of what's handed in varies enormously, and without resources or instruction it ends up being busy-work. The reason there is so much homework is exclusively because parents demand it. we tried to scrap it for non-core subjects at KS3, and let the kids choose a project to work on instead, but loads of parents complained and now we're back to setting meaningless weekly tasks.


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## weepiper (Sep 20, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> i just want to reiterate what hocus eye said on page one.
> 
> most teachers hate homework. it's extra work for us, the quality of what's handed in varies enormously, and without resources or instruction it ends up being busy-work. The reason there is so much homework is exclusively because parents demand it. we tried to scrap it for non-core subjects at KS3, and let the kids choose a project to work on instead, but loads of parents complained and now we're back to setting meaningless weekly tasks.



It really annoys me. Pushy parents


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## miniGMgoit (Sep 22, 2011)

I might be being a little idealist with my thoughts on this but I don't agree with homework for school aged children at all. It makes me angry.


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## BoatieBird (Sep 22, 2011)

BoatieBoy (aged 8 - in year 4), is expected to read at home 5 times a week, he has 10 spellings to learn each week, he's going to be starting on times tables any day now and he also has 1 piece of homework that is set on a Friday and has to be done by Monday.
Personally I think it's too much.

It can be a real battle to get him to do any of it at times, he'd much rather be playing in the garden.
And tbh, I'd much rather he was playing in the garden 

I try to get the reading and spelling out of the way as soon as he gets in from school, but this only works on the days I finish work early enough to pick him up from school.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 22, 2011)

A big fat 'nay' from me. Lessons are enough at that age. After school kids should be out doing hobbies or whatever, just playing football with their mates. As far as possible, they should be _outside_.


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## krink (Sep 22, 2011)

my three have had homework of some sort every day from Reception class onwards and yet the school is currently in special measures! it may be that the homework is the only thing saving the kids from being totally screwed cos some of the teachers there are fucking useless

But no, I disagree with homework for the kids until secondary school. They should be out playing. My wife and I have even had arguments about the kids' homework!


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## elfman (Sep 22, 2011)

I think you should let kids enjoy their childhood. The odd fun project for them to do at home over a holiday is fine and maybe taking a book home to read every week. Anything more than that isn't needed imo. When I was at primary school I never had any homework. I think I 1st started getting homework when I started middle school (year 5 - 9/10 yo) and even then it was once a week over the weekend for the 1st year. I turned out fine


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 22, 2011)

Where was that, elfman?

Finnish education is often cited as the best in the world, and they don't start compulsory education until age 7. Even then, kids are not given homework. They are actively encouraged to do non-school things after school, and don't have any kind of formal testing for the first few years at school. They tend to turn out fine too.


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## elfman (Sep 22, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Where was that, elfman?
> 
> Finnish education is often cited as the best in the world, and they don't start compulsory education until age 7. Even then, kids are not given homework. They are actively encouraged to do non-school things after school, and don't have any kind of formal testing for the first few years at school. They tend to turn out fine too.



England and I'm 24. It has changed a lot in such a short time it seems...


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 22, 2011)

I think it must vary hugely region to region and school to school.


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## weepiper (Sep 22, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think it must vary hugely region to region and school to school.



and even teacher to teacher.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 22, 2011)

An illustration of how schools get stuff completely wrong came a few winters ago. There was the first proper snowfall in years, and the headteacher at the school near where I lived in Brockley was praised for making the kids stay in and continue with their classes. This was on a Wednesday or a Thursday. By the Saturday, the snow had mostly gone. Fuck off classes for the day and go out and play in the snow, ffs! This was at a school in Hilly Fields - a school next to a park full of snow - where the kids were forced to stay indoors. By the time the school day was over, it was getting dark already. Yet this headteacher was on the news being praised for keeping the classes going.


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## scifisam (Sep 22, 2011)

Yep, that is too much, weeps. And one of the things some of the kids will learn from it is that you can fuck off homework and not have any major repercussions from it - basically, that the rules are arbitrary.



ShiftyBagLady said:


> Last year, when he was 8, his class ha homework like reading and a few spellings a week, some times tables and a weekly project. The teacher would give them a letter and the children created a project based on that letter about ANYTHING. most enjoyable homework ever.
> That's good homework, work which stimulates them and uses their imagination. Tells the teacher a great deal about their interests, favoured working methods (EG drawing, writing, crafting or PowerPointing as the case may be) and gives the experience of presenting and sharing ideas with the class. That's the only homework primary school kids should have in my opinion.



I like the sound of that open project stuff.



strange-fish said:


> My kids who are now grown up went to a local primary in what would be considered 'the countryside' oop north. It had such an excellent reputation that people from outside the 'catchment' were always wanting to get their kids in. The head was totally against formal homework, until the last year when small amounts were given (not compulsory) in order to get them ready for secondary school. Towards my son's final years there more 'middle class' people moved into the area and suddenly they all wanted their kids to have homework??? There was an expectation that they would not learn enough unless they had homework - I even knew one family who insisted on it ! WHY - the Head's attitude was his school wasn't doing it's job if they couldn't teach what was needed and more during school hours. Out of school was for playing, socialising, spending time with family and friends, having a childhood!!!



That's so strange - there's nothing stopping the parents setting the kids extra practice independently. There are lots of decent workbooks out there if you don't want to think up your own projects.


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## wayward bob (Sep 22, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> An illustration of how schools get stuff completely wrong came a few winters ago. There was the first proper snowfall in years, and the headteacher at the school near where I lived in Brockley was praised for making the kids stay in and continue with their classes. This was on a Wednesday or a Thursday. By the Saturday, the snow had mostly gone. Fuck off classes for the day and go out and play in the snow, ffs! This was at a school in Hilly Fields - a school next to a park full of snow - where the kids were forced to stay indoors. By the time the school day was over, it was getting dark already. Yet this headteacher was on the news being praised for keeping the classes going.



when it snowed last year the school was shut a lot of the time, but there was one day when it was open but only a handful of the kids went in (kid1 included). they had a massive snowball fight in the playground with the teachers and hot choc afterwards


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## _angel_ (Sep 23, 2011)

krink said:


> my three have had homework of some sort every day from Reception class onwards and yet the school is currently in special measures! it may be that the homework is the only thing saving the kids from being totally screwed cos some of the teachers there are fucking useless


ffs are you serious? from the age of four? no wonder kids drop out of education and learning. Think I'd be having words with a teacher that set my four year old homework!


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## krink (Sep 24, 2011)

It varies from school to school - we are going to visit the local comp on monday as my eldest girl starts next year and they have a 'we don't do homework' policy until final exam years.

But yeah, seriously, my 4 year old brings home homework. It's stupid.


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## N_igma (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm actually shocked that people here never got any homework in primary school! We were getting homework from no age in primary school.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2011)

My daughter has had three half days in school and already has brought homework home.
She is finding it a bit of a struggle and gets frustrated very quickly.
It's actually quite a lot for a four year old, but luckily I have the time to help her, I just hope it's not all intended to be learnt and sorted for Monday.


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## Red Cat (Sep 25, 2011)

Fuck that. All the evidence is in favour learning through play until 7 yrs old, so what is to be gained by homework?  How come evidence-based practice doesn't seem to extend to education?


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## weepiper (Sep 25, 2011)

Red Cat said:


> Fuck that. All the evidence is in favour learning through play until 7 yrs old, so what is to be gained by homework? How come evidence-based practice doesn't seem to extend to education?



Seriously fuck that. Only four and still on half days and they're expecting her to do homework? That's just wrong.


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## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2011)

and another fuck that


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## spawnofsatan (Sep 25, 2011)

weepiper said:


> Seriously fuck that. Only four and still on half days and they're expecting her to do homework? That's just wrong.


 
Ours get homework too and they're not even 4 yet


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## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2011)

what does this "homework" amount to? is it just reading or something else?


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## spawnofsatan (Sep 25, 2011)

Shapes and numbers and spotting things they'll see around the village,


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## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2011)

is there pressure from the school (to parents or indirectly through the kids?) to get this stuff done? or is it something most interested/available parents would be able to do in the course of normal life?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2011)

Baby Bahn's supposed to get 30 minutes per week, plus reading.

The literacy & numeracy homework she gets is never completed in under 2 hours, the current numeracy task has so far stretched over 3 hours.


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## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Baby Bahn's supposed to get 30 minutes per week, plus reading.
> 
> The literacy & numeracy homework she gets is never completed in under 2 hours, the current numeracy task has so far stretched over 3 hours.



how old?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2011)

wayward bob said:


> how old?



7, just started year 3.


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## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 7, just started year 3.



3 hours of numeracy sounds ridiculous for that age to me


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2011)

And she's one of the brightest in her year, Christ knows how long the less able must take.


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## geminisnake (Sep 25, 2011)

I think more parents need to tell them(school/teacher) to get stuffed!! No way should primary school kids be doing more than 1 1/2 a week!! Kids NEED time to be kids!


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## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2011)

i'm so sad that these precious years of childhood are being invaded with spurious "homework". surely they have the whole of the rest of their lives to be doing that kind of shit


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2011)

geminisnake said:


> I think more parents need to tell them(school/teacher) to get stuffed!! No way should primary school kids be doing more than 1 1/2 a week!! Kids NEED time to be kids!



We're constantly told that it should take no more than 30 minutes.

Last week we had:

3 coloured books on a shelf, how many ways can you arrange them? So 7 year old draws 3 coloured lines and repeats with the permutations until 6 have been done and she can do no more. 5 mins, piece of piss. However the question goes on, now how many for 4, and 5 books?

Without a good knowledge of multiplication you have no chance of doing 5 books with coloured lines. They haven't got anywhere near far enough with multiplication yet for her to work out a formula to solve this problem.


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## weepiper (Sep 25, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> We're constantly told that it should take no more than 30 minutes.
> 
> Last week we had:
> 
> ...



that just seems crazy. What need has a seven year old to know how many ways you can arrange 5 different coloured items? Have you spoken to the teacher about how long all this pointless shit takes? Having sent a letter in with the eldest saying we can't do the amounts she's setting in the time given, I've been speaking to some other parents and the general consensus is the same, that they're being given way too much to do between Monday and Friday. Parents' evening in October... I have plenty to talk about


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## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> We're constantly told that it should take no more than 30 minutes.
> 
> Last week we had:
> 
> ...



have you approached the school about this? it sounds like they're trying to cover all their bases, with the able kids who can do the basic question in five minutes. if i didn't feel able to challenge the school i'd definitely stop after half an hour with anything like this and tbh i'd be questioning what they're hoping to achieve with it anyway.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm guessing they're going to get on to the ideas of formulas, for this one you take the number of books and multiply them by each other, e.g. for four books, 4x3x2=24, five books 5x4x3x2=120 etc.

But yeah, parents evening in 3 weeks, will have plenty to say if this crap keeps up.


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## Ceej (Sep 25, 2011)

The primary school I work in has parent questionnaires every year, and the question 'Does your child get the right amount of homework?' divides the parents in equal measures - it's contentious, some want more, some want none.
In my school (I'm a school manager, not a teacher) Reception (age 4-5) children get 10 mins per week, rising to 1 hr per week for Y6 (age 10-11)...given out on Tuesdays, to be handed in the following Monday. The criteria is that it should reinforce class learning and make sure that the children 'get' it.... 30 in a class, it's easy to move on before all children properly understand what's been taught.
Personally, I don't think they should have homework in primary - maybe a project once a term or something for the older ones. It's really divisive anyway, some parents find it hard to help their children (like maths -  even the language is different from what most parents were taught), some practically do the homework for them and others can't be arsed -  at least a class is a controlled environment. It's a lot of pressure on the teachers, especially if they don't give the children/parents the 'right' about of feedback - and views differ enormously on that too.
Minefield, and of dubious benefit, I think.


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## trashpony (Sep 26, 2011)

The foal who has just started reception has just got his first reading book - he will apparently get two a week. I am supposed to read each one with him at least twice, asking questions, helping him identify words and then filling in his record book. That is going to take a bit longer than 10 mins but he wants to learn to read so a) it's useful and b) he's keen.

Arranging a load of books on a shelf in every possible permutation is a waste of time and strikes me as 'busywork' as spangles called it. I would never have been able to figure out how to work it out either


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## dessiato (Sep 26, 2011)

Here we are expected to give the primary kids homework every day. However, it is usually something like spelling, practise writing in English, and the other subjects have a policy of it being little more than doing a revision of the lesson by answering questions related to that days lesson. It seems perfectly fair to me, although sometimes it can mean they have four or five subjects a day.


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## weepiper (Sep 9, 2012)

Fuck's sake. Middle boy is 6, just started Primary 2 which is Year 1 in England, new young keen teacher and he's totally bogged down with the homework she's setting already. Last week we had 2 (boring) reading books, a worksheet with like ten questions on each book to write out (very badly worded questions too), and a page of addition sums which he was supposed to do as many of in a minute as he could every night and write his score down. I didn't make him do the worksheet for the second book because frankly it was too much and because he hates doing homework and as my mum/his granny died a few weeks ago (which the teacher knows) neither of us needs the stress of forcing him to do something he hates just now. He's just come through to me crying after bedtime because apparently she shouted at him for not doing that sheet and now he thinks he's a terrible student because he doesn't listen  He's SIX YEARS OLD for god's sake!

So now I'm going to have to talk to the teacher after school tomorrow. Fucking stupid fucking homework.


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## trashpony (Sep 9, 2012)

Bloody hell 

We still haven't read the book that Elliot brought home from school on Thursday


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## purenarcotic (Sep 9, 2012)

She shouted at him?! For fuck's sake what is wrong with the woman.  Good god what is wrong with people.


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## weepiper (Sep 9, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> She shouted at him?! For fuck's sake what is wrong with the woman. Good god what is wrong with people.


 
I am angry too  he said she shouts at him for being the last to sit down on the carpet in the morning too, he says he tries to be quick but no matter what he ends up being one of the last to have put all their things away and sit down and she shouts 

I'm hoping that he is misinterpreting 'raised authoritative voice' for 'being shouted at' but either way she's thoroughly putting him off school at the moment and we definitely need to have a chat about how we can change his perception.


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## purenarcotic (Sep 9, 2012)

weepiper said:


> I am angry too  he said she shouts at him for being the last to sit down on the carpet in the morning too, he says he tries to be quick but no matter what he ends up being one of the last to have put all their things away and sit down and she shouts
> 
> I'm hoping that he is misinterpreting 'raised authoritative voice' for 'being shouted at' but either way she's thoroughly putting him off school at the moment and we definitely need to have a chat about how we can change his perception.


 
Even if it is raised authoritative voice, why does she need to berate a 6 year old for sitting down slowly.  Does she not appreciate that some kids are just a bit slower than others ffs.  Goodness could you imagine a child who had some co-ordination difficulties but it hadn't been diagnosed or owt.


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## trashpony (Sep 9, 2012)

Foal also has a shouty teacher this year - deliberately chosen because his class is 'challenging'. He doesn't respond at all to being shouted at - it just makes him mulish and stubborn.

I fucking hate education in this country. I don't believe formal education should start until the age of 7. Right now, it's a struggle not to put him off education for life


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## spanglechick (Sep 9, 2012)

often, inexperienced teachers lack the behaviour management strategies to control the kids without resorting to a raised voice.  it needs sorting out, and she needs to resist doing it. Ofsted very much frown upon a shouting teacher.


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## purenarcotic (Sep 9, 2012)

trashpony said:


> Foal also has a shouty teacher this year - deliberately chosen because his class is 'challenging'. He doesn't respond at all to being shouted at - it just makes him mulish and stubborn.
> 
> I fucking hate education in this country. I don't believe formal education should start until the age of 7. Right now, it's a struggle not to put him off education for life


 
It's horrible isn't it, fucking horrible.  I loathe Gove and his free school idea for all sorts of reasons I won't bang on about here but a part of me does understand why some parents would want to just do their own thing because there's just so much wrong with our current school system.


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## weepiper (Sep 9, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> often, inexperienced teachers lack the behaviour management strategies to control the kids without resorting to a raised voice. it needs sorting out, and she needs to resist doing it. Ofsted very much frown upon a shouting teacher.


 
yup, even I know as a mum if I'm resorting to shouting I've probably gone past the point where they are going to listen


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## dylans (Sep 9, 2012)

weepiper said:


> It really annoys me. Pushy parents


 
I'm a pushy parent. I like my kid having homework. If he doesn't have homework I set some myself. We have a study hour every night. If he has no school work we do revision of the weeks work or we do some ongoing home science projects that we are working on.  I am a very involved parent. I help him with all his homework and try to teach him stuff that the school doesn't but things that I think will be useful. So I have taught him to touch type, to do research, to use references. I have taught him photoshop and illustrator etc. These things he can then apply to his school work. 

My reasoning is this. Education isn't just about school, I don't want him to think that learning starts and stops at the school gate.  Learning  should be about everything he does. Learning things is fun and I want to give him that curiosity and love of learning. Everything can be a learning experience including play.I figure that by doing an hour a night on top of his school work, he can give himself an edge at school and also explore the subjects he has learned at school in greater detail and explore things he is interested in in more detail.  He likes science and he is good at it. He always has been, ever since he was a little kid. So I have basically indulged that interest and made it his hobby. So when we do science type stuff it really merges with his school work and doesn't feel like a chore.


My kid is 12 now and in secondary school but I have followed this philosophy since primary and it works.  If I have any criticism of homework its not that he has to do it but rather its to the quality of the homework he gets. It annoys me when his homework is obviously some generic lazy worksheet or if its boring. I see no reason why it should be anything but interesting. If the teachers are going to give him homework then it had better have value and add to his general learning experience. 

The result, he is top of his class in every subject especially science, history, English and Maths. He has a love of learning and his efforts are reinforced by his results in school. I want him to succeed at school and I think the best way to achieve this is to instil in him good study skills and work habits and most of all a love of learning things. I don't go for this "kids need time to be kids" stuff. He is a kid and he does the same stuff that all kids do, he plays video games and watches cartoons, plays with his mates etc. I don't think an hour a night learning interesting things gets in the way of that.


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## weepiper (Sep 9, 2012)

I don't think you read the whole thread.


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## dylans (Sep 9, 2012)

weepiper said:


> I don't think you read the whole thread.


I've read enough


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## weepiper (Sep 9, 2012)

dylans said:


> I've read enough


 
Ok, you carry on thinking I don't teach my kids anything or enthuse them about interesting stuff or tell them that learning is a chore to be endured because I dislike formal homework for 6 year olds then.


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## dylans (Sep 9, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Ok, you carry on thinking I don't teach my kids anything or enthuse them about interesting stuff or tell them that learning is a chore to be endured because I dislike formal homework for 6 year olds then.


I don't think I said that. I have no opinion on what others do and am certainly not judging you or anyone else. I can only speak for myself and how I do things.

Fwiw I am actually opposed to formal schooling for kids as young as 6. My kid didn't start school until we came to the UK when he was 8 (we lived abroad and home schooled for the first few years) and it was definitely to his advantage


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## extra dry (Sep 10, 2012)

Spending 15-20 minutes reading at home with some guidance will help most kids develop there word recognition, spelling and pronunciation. The other idea I guess is to get the kid in a routine so that once out of the home, say at uni, they can study independently.


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## extra dry (Sep 10, 2012)

[quote="weepiper, 

This week we have had:

4 chapters of a reading book (that's not a problem, she reads happily and fast)
'predict what you think will happen next' in the reading book
a page of questions where they had to underline the common nouns in one colour and the proper nouns in another colour, then had to draw pictures representing three more common nouns and three more proper nouns of their own choosing
a page of sums
ten spelling words to learn
a 'spelling task' for each day of the week, such as 'write a story using ALL of your spelling words. Underline the spelling words in the paragraph' and 'draw and colour a picture. Hide your spelling words inside the picture. 

 I'm worried that she's going to get into trouble for me writing a letter saying there's too much homework now as apparently she asked the teacher for some harder reading books because the ones she's getting are too easy (and it's true, it's the sort of thing her little brother can read, with a picture on every page - at home she reads things like Terry Pratchett's kids' books) and the teacher said she was very rude and told her to sit down [/quote]

Def complain, the teacher sounds like he's overloading them at home to keep up with the timetable/curriculum at school. I wouldn't set my students homework like that at that age.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 10, 2012)

trashpony said:


> My nephew really struggles with the amount of homework he has which isn't helped by the fact that he has ASD. It means that at well as quite a few evenings, at least one day during the weekend is taken over by homework and it's very fraught.
> 
> I'd be interested in people's perspectives on this, particularly the teachers. Do you think it's it a good idea? Does it prepare you for secondary school or is it a waste of time? I know that some of his homework doesn't even get looked at by the teacher.


 
If by primary you mean grades 1 - 6, then maybe a little in 5 and 6, but not much. But if there is anything like here, there will be lots of homework throughout the grades, as teachers offload teaching onto parents and tutors.


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## purenarcotic (Sep 10, 2012)

extra dry said:


> Spending 15-20 minutes reading at home with some guidance will help most kids develop there word recognition, spelling and pronunciation. The other idea I guess is to get the kid in a routine so that once out of the home, say at uni, they can study independently.


 
But reading with your child is vastly different to formalised education.  Reading with kids is a pleasure, homework is usually a chore. 

I'm not sure it does tbh; I had a lot of homework at school as a kid and I am still one of those leave it all to the last minute.  I wrote my entire dissertation in a week.  Once kids hit puberty they'll know their own mind and do their own thing.


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## fractionMan (Sep 10, 2012)

Oh god.  I've somehow got to make it to school at 2:30 on Wednesday to hear all about new "homework brochures" and homework policy.  Brochures.  Ffs.


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## wayward bob (Sep 10, 2012)

ah weeps i'm sorry middle boy drew the short straw when it came to teachers this year  i hope a meeting manages to sort her out. does his class have a ta as well? is that someone you could get onside if the teacher's just an unreconstructed dragon?

kid1's homework atm is watching 'allo 'allo


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## aqua (Sep 10, 2012)

my issue with homework for young kids (under 12) is that it makes reading and learning "work". Not something to do because they want to, because they're keen to learn, but something to be undertaken just to get someone off your back.

It also doesn't help any families who do not have a good level of basic literacy and numeracy themselves. How can a parent help their kid with reading when they themselves don't have a good level of reading skills? The area I live in has a poor adult literacy level and it makes me really angry that the school make massive assumptions about the home life of kids. 

Pickle won't be doing homework until secondary school - we read with her and we do alsorts with her already and try not to make it into work - if she wants to do it then she can but I won't have her play/life experience/sleep fucked about with because some arse of a school decide they should do x amount per week. Given the area I work in and research they will have an almightly row coming if they try to tell me it's for the good of her.


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## Sweet FA (Sep 10, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> most teachers hate homework. it's extra work for us, the quality of what's handed in varies enormously, and without resources or instruction it ends up being busy-work


Totally agree. There's also the issue of what to do if kids don't do it. Handing out homework to children who'll get zero support from home is setting them up to fail. 


BoatieBird said:


> BoatieBoy (aged 8 - in year 4), is expected to read at home 5 times a week, he has 10 spellings to learn each week, he's going to be starting on times tables any day now and he also has 1 piece of homework that is set on a Friday and has to be done by Monday.
> Personally I think it's too much


This is fairly standard for most primary schools - read 3xpw + spellings + tables. 


Red Cat said:


> Fuck that. All the evidence is in favour learning through play until 7 yrs old, so what is to be gained by homework? How come evidence-based practice doesn't seem to extend to education?


Research that doesn't fit into non-educationalist's view of what education is gets disregarded. 'They're just mucking about, how is that learning?' Although, see below...


weepiper said:


> What need has a seven year old to know how many ways you can arrange 5 different coloured items?


It's not about knowing how many different combinations there are, it's about investigating methods to find out. The idea with these type of activities (and there are hundreds...wait 'til you have to colour the 3 stage rockets or arrange the school uniforms ). 
(Primary Framework objective: _describe and explain methods, choices and solutions to puzzles and problems, orally and in writing, using pictures and diagrams.)_


It should be made clear that it's open-ended though - 'how many ways can you arrange the books?' not 'how many ways are there to arrange the books?'
You can have a look here for all the numeracy/literacy objectives (archived from 2009 while they try and cobble something else together although "All statutory guidance and legislation linked to from this site continues to reflect the current legal position unless indicated otherwise, but may not reflect Government policy." )

As far as homework goes, I don't think primary children should get any (and not _purely_ because it's a pain in the arse to plan/administer/mark, honest). 

Fwiw, the govt guidelines are:

*Homework guidelines for primary and secondary schools*

The emphasis is on how homework helps your child to learn, rather than on whether it takes a certain amount of time.
For example, some children will work quicker than others and get more done in less time. The rough guidelines for primary school children are:

Years 1 and 2: one hour per week
Years 3 and 4: 1.5 hours per week
Years 5 and 6: 30 minutes per day
The guidelines for secondary school children are:

Years 7 and 8: 45 to 90 minutes per day
Year 9: one to two hours per day
Years 10 and 11: 1.5 to 2.5 hours per day
Your child shouldn’t be expected to spend much longer on homework than the guide times. It doesn’t matter if activities don't take as long as the guide times as long as they are useful. Schools should organise homework carefully so that children aren't asked to do too much on any one day.


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## wayward bob (Sep 10, 2012)

Sweet FA said:


> The guidelines for secondary school children are:
> 
> 
> Years 7 and 8: 45 to 90 minutes per day
> ...




 
two and a half fucking HOURS a day?  fuck that for a game of soldiers  to the best of my recollection i never had more than an hour's homework in secondary and that wasn't _every_ night. and i got 4 a's at a level :swot:


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## Red Cat (Sep 10, 2012)

One of the unanticipated problems I have (less political and more personal) is that Rosa doesn't want us to teach her to read. She wants it to be a teacher. Obviously we have done to the extent that she asks lots of questions about words that she sees but anything that she experiences as teachy and she just pretends she doesn't know things she knew ages ago and doesn't seem to progress. I'm sure she has cos she likes to hide her learning until she's got it. We're not pushy at all - very child-led - but there's something about reading/writing and the potential to get things wrong that she picks up on and doesn't want to experience with us. I understand this is very common - much to my relief, as I had wondered how she'd developed this concern when we're very far from critical. I was the same, not wanting to be taught, but I have very critical parents and always put it down to that. However, it seems that just as in learning to walk and climb and feed themselves, children just like to do it for themselves.


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## Fruitloop (Sep 10, 2012)

Has anyone here tried telling the teachers that their kid is just not going to do the homework? What kind of reaction does it get?


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## Thora (Sep 10, 2012)

Reading, spellings and timetables - fine.  But I don't agree with worksheets etc, and certainly not for infants.  I would be sending a polite note to the teacher saying that we won't be doing any homework thanks.

I would find 30 minutes a day too much even for year 5 and 6 - school finishes at 3.30pm, home by 4.30pm if they stay for clubs, an hour or so to play out/watch TV, tea, bath, reading before bed - where do you fit in homework every night?  And what if the child is picked up by a babysitter/childminder/friend?


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## Sweet FA (Sep 10, 2012)

@ Red Cat
Every single one of my friends (and their friends) who has children of primary age have come to me over the past few years (as their children hit year 1 generally), worried that their kids aren't getting it (particularly wrt reading/writing). Having experienced it myself with Lil'FA (now starting year 3), I think part of it's due to the fact that they're suddenly 'out of our control' iyswim. They've developed (hopefully) a strong relationship with their teacher, they're more independent, they don't have to tell us everything, they want to impress someone other than us, they've compartmentalised 'learning' as something that happens at school. I had really mixed feelings; I knew it was best for her but dammit, _I_ want to be the centre of her world


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## Sweet FA (Sep 10, 2012)

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it all too much. If that prick Gove gets his way, schools will be open evenings and Saturdays so there'll be no such thing as _home_work as children won't be home that much.


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## fractionMan (Sep 10, 2012)

Sweet FA said:


> *Homework guidelines for primary and secondary schools*
> 
> The emphasis is on how homework helps your child to learn, rather than on whether it takes a certain amount of time.
> For example, some children will work quicker than others and get more done in less time. The rough guidelines for primary school children are:
> ...


 
I find that an astonishing and completely unrealistic amount of homework to expect of kids.  There's no way I would have done more than an hour a day as a teenager, no way.


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## wayward bob (Sep 10, 2012)

i wonder what the fuck is wrong with teachers/schools these days that means they can't teach the stuff kids are supposed to learn *during school hours*?

sure homework has a small contribution to make, and is a worthwhile discipline to learn, but stupidly excessive amounts like that mean the schools aren't doing their job, surely?


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## Sweet FA (Sep 10, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I find that an astonishing and completely unrealistic amount of homework to expect of kids


Yup, and there's the bind for teachers. Most of us know it's bollocks but when Ofsted come a calling, what do you say? It'd take a brave/suicidal Head to say it's too much...


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## Sweet FA (Sep 10, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> i wonder what the fuck is wrong with teachers/schools these days that means they can't teach the stuff kids are supposed to learn *during school hours*?
> 
> sure homework has a small contribution to make, and is a worthwhile discipline to learn, but stupidly excessive amounts like that mean the schools aren't doing their job, surely?


Rather ask 'what the fuck is wrong with education policy?' bob. Successive governments have taken control of the curriculum and how it's taught away from educationalists and put it into the hands of privately educated fuckwads. Teachers _do_ 'teach the stuff kids are supposed to learn *during school hours*' which is why the homework thing is a nonsense for primary children (imo/ime). The requirement for homework comes from above which is why so much of it is 'busywork'. Turn your guns on policy makers.

eta Do you really think teachers/schools devised those homework guidelines I posted above?


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## wayward bob (Sep 10, 2012)

*does the living in wales happy dance*  for us but  for you lot.

(our head teacher is amazing, and does outreach to other schools cos she's so awesome. my girls have _very_ little set homework, but plenty of projects and stuff they *want* to get their teeth into at home as well as school)


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## Red Cat (Sep 10, 2012)

Sweet FA said:


> @ Red Cat
> Every single one of my friends (and their friends) who has children of primary age have come to me over the past few years (as their children hit year 1 generally), worried that their kids aren't getting it (particularly wrt reading/writing). Having experienced it myself with Lil'FA (now starting year 3), I think part of it's due to the fact that they're suddenly 'out of our control' iyswim. They've developed (hopefully) a strong relationship with their teacher, they're more independent, they don't have to tell us everything, they want to impress someone other than us, they've compartmentalised 'learning' as something that happens at school. I had really mixed feelings; I knew it was best for her but dammit, _I_ want to be the centre of her world


 
She's only just gone into reception so it's not really a problem! What I should have said was given that the school expect us to do reading homework with her and she doesn't want our help, this is a potential problem. I don't mind her wanting to learn with the teacher - in fact, it was me who voiced that idea to her as she didn't seem to want our help and I suspected it was something she associated with starting school. I don't want to 'teach' her - it's not my style - I just hadn't envisaged how early that particular association and compartmentalisation would take place.


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## Sweet FA (Sep 10, 2012)

Red Cat said:


> She's only just gone into reception so it's not really a problem! What I should have said was given that the school expect us to do reading homework with her and she doesn't want our help, this is a potential problem.


Oh OK, I get you. I got round that to a certain degree by playing games with phonics wherever we were. So sounding out the names of objects around the house 'ch-air', 'p-l-a-te', 'kn-i-fe' etc then getting some wrong and her taking great pleasure in correcting me. I think in the end, Lil'FA's need to show off what she'd learned overcame her need to compartmentalise us at that point 



Red Cat said:


> I don't mind her wanting to learn with the teacher - in fact, it was me who voiced that idea to her as she didn't seem to want our help and I suspected it was something she associated with starting school. I don't want to 'teach' her - it's not my style - I just hadn't envisaged how early that particular association and compartmentalisation would take place.


I, on the other hand, thought I'd be able to hothouse a genius   As a primary teacher, I naively thought I could keep her ahead of the game, back up everything she was doing in school, teach her literacy/numeracy strategies and pretty much get her 1st degree by 7 and perhaps a doctorate by 10. I'd missed out the part where I'm Daddy though; that is my place. I'm allowed to hear her read (as long as I don't interrupt with 'stupid questions') and read what she's written (although 'don't touch the spellings, it's not your job').


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## weepiper (Sep 10, 2012)

Any tips on how to deal with a homework refuser Sweet FA? The 6 year old has a violent hatred of it, to the point that getting him to do anything beyond his reading (which he still resents, because what he gets given is frankly dull and he can do it with his eyes shut having taught himself to read age 3, but he will do it without too much fuss) involves tantrums with actual tears most days.


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## wayward bob (Sep 10, 2012)

my favourite homework kid2 had in reception was rearranging letters to see how many different words they could make, her word was THIS: "look daddy i can spell shit "


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## _angel_ (Sep 10, 2012)

2.5 hours a night when they're older? no way. By the way at six we had precisely no homework at all, which is how it should be.


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## purenarcotic (Sep 10, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Any tips on how to deal with a homework refuser Sweet FA? The 6 year old has a violent hatred of it, to the point that getting him to do anything beyond his reading (which he still resents, because what he gets given is frankly dull and he can do it with his eyes shut having taught himself to read age 3, but he will do it without too much fuss) involves tantrums with actual tears most days.


 
Wrt reading: my mum wrote a letter to the school saying that I already knew how to read and that I was bored by the selection they were offering me, so unless they came up with a better option she would just pick the books for me from the local library.  Thankfully, they used to let me take books from the year 2 / 3 reading box even when I was in reception.  That might work with that one.

Not sure about the other issue, though.   Did you chat to his teacher about the shouting?


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## weepiper (Sep 10, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> Wrt reading: my mum wrote a letter to the school saying that I already knew how to read and that I was bored by the selection they were offering me, so unless they came up with a better option she would just pick the books for me from the local library. Thankfully, they used to let me take books from the year 2 / 3 reading box even when I was in reception. That might work with that one.
> 
> Not sure about the other issue, though.  Did you chat to his teacher about the shouting?


 
Doing so this afternoon as before school not the best time to get a talk really. His teacher last year was great regarding the reading, she said 'he doesn't need to practice' but she sent the books from the top group home with him anyway on the grounds that it was helpful to include him in the group so he didn't feel left out and so the other kids didn't notice him being 'different'. But there was no pressure at all.


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## purenarcotic (Sep 10, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Doing so this afternoon as before school not the best time to get a talk really. His teacher last year was great regarding the reading, she said 'he doesn't need to practice' but she sent the books from the top group home with him anyway on the grounds that it was helpful to include him in the group so he didn't feel left out and so the other kids didn't notice him being 'different'. But there was no pressure at all.


 
What a shame the new one is being such a pain.  Maybe telling her the old teacher did that might help.  Who knows, good luck with this afternoon!


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 10, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Any tips on how to deal with a homework refuser Sweet FA? The 6 year old has a violent hatred of it, to the point that getting him to do anything beyond his reading (which he still resents, because what he gets given is frankly dull and he can do it with his eyes shut having taught himself to read age 3, but he will do it without too much fuss) involves tantrums with actual tears most days.


My son doesn't do the reading his school sets because they don't set him appropriate books. I told them that neither of us were going to waste our time with their reading books and would just get on with reading for enjoyment. They didn't press me on it but this year I am going to ensure that his reading ability is reflected in the work they set because, I dunno, I believe it should be.

As for the rest of the homework, I would say incentivise and praise. He gets to watch a tv show of his choice afterwards or an extra biscuit or something. It's not bribery it's incentivising.
Also, acknowledge that having to do it may well be a bit of a drag and you understand why he would rather do a thousand other things but it will pay off when he is a genius and he gets a bonus biscuit out of it


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## Thora (Sep 10, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Any tips on how to deal with a homework refuser Sweet FA? The 6 year old has a violent hatred of it, to the point that getting him to do anything beyond his reading (which he still resents, because what he gets given is frankly dull and he can do it with his eyes shut having taught himself to read age 3, but he will do it without too much fuss) involves tantrums with actual tears most days.


I'm not a teacher, but I would write a letter to the teacher/Head explaining that you will not be doing any work at home as is it so stressful that it is of no benefit to him.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 10, 2012)

Or maybe prioritise it. If the reading is pointless then get him to do one piece of work that he needs help with instead.


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## killer b (Sep 10, 2012)

Red Cat said:


> One of the unanticipated problems I have (less political and more personal) is that Rosa doesn't want us to teach her to read. She wants it to be a teacher. Obviously we have done to the extent that she asks lots of questions about words that she sees but anything that she experiences as teachy and she just pretends she doesn't know things she knew ages ago and doesn't seem to progress. I'm sure she has cos she likes to hide her learning until she's got it. We're not pushy at all - very child-led - but there's something about reading/writing and the potential to get things wrong that she picks up on and doesn't want to experience with us. I understand this is very common - much to my relief, as I had wondered how she'd developed this concern when we're very far from critical. I was the same, not wanting to be taught, but I have very critical parents and always put it down to that. However, it seems that just as in learning to walk and climb and feed themselves, children just like to do it for themselves.


you may find this changes soon - when martha first went to school last year, she refused to talk about what she'd been doing there at all, and a friend who's kid has just entered reception is finding the exact same thing occurring - she loosened up quickly enough. think she just wanted to find her feet...


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## Sweet FA (Sep 10, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Any tips on how to deal with a homework refuser Sweet FA? The 6 year old has a violent hatred of it, to the point that getting him to do anything beyond his reading (which he still resents, because what he gets given is frankly dull and he can do it with his eyes shut having taught himself to read age 3, but he will do it without too much fuss) involves tantrums with actual tears most days.




Sorry to hear this weeps. First off, the reading thing is shit. It _is_ a problem that phonetically decodable books for children are dull as fuck but that shouldn't apply if your child can read... Is he year 1 or 2? I'm not sure why he's coming home with books below his level. This is definitely something to address this pm. It would be unreasonable, imo, if the teacher didn't let your child choose his own books or at the very least let him choose from a higher level. Even if the books chosen are 'above' his level, it would give him the chance to work _with_ you to understand the text, rather than fight against you as it's so dull. 

This might not be relevant but is the teacher an NQT - has s/he just started teaching? It's no help to you but there's a fucking steep learning curve in your 1st year of teaching and s/he might not be getting the support s/he needs from the school. The same thing with the shouting - ime it can be a sign of inexperience; s/he hasn't learnt the power of the lowered voice, heavy with unvoiced threats of death and destruction . It's also a good idea to voice your concerns re: the homework trauma with the teacher.

As to what you can do to reduce the trauma. First off, why does he hate it so much? Too easy? Too difficult? Too boring? He's too tired? I know time's a pressure but can you turn it into a game? So you sit opposite each other; you both do the homework then you compare what you've done. Or you set up a 'special homework area' - like a kind of homework office with a 'special table' or 'special pencil' or something (though I worked with friend's child on this exact thing who chose the dog's kennel as his 'special homework area' - I smelt like a wet doberman every night for 2 weeks ). A 'homework chart' with treats at the end of the week?

In the end, homework shouldn't be a flashpoint between you - if it's causing this much grief, don't do it and talk to the school.


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## weepiper (Sep 10, 2012)

Sweet FA said:


> Sorry to hear this weeps. First off, the reading thing is shit. It _is_ a problem that phonetically decodable books for children are dull as fuck but that shouldn't apply if your child can read... Is he year 1 or 2? I'm not sure why he's coming home with books below his level. This is definitely something to address this pm. It would be unreasonable, imo, if the teacher didn't let your child choose his own books or at the very least let him choose from a higher level. Even if the books chosen are 'above' his level, it would give him the chance to work _with_ you to understand the text, rather than fight against you as it's so dull.
> 
> This might not be relevant but is the teacher an NQT - has s/he just started teaching? It's no help to you but there's a fucking steep learning curve in your 1st year of teaching and s/he might not be getting the support s/he needs from the school. The same thing with the shouting - ime it can be a sign of inexperience; s/he hasn't learnt the power of the lowered voice, heavy with unvoiced threats of death and destruction . It's also a good idea to voice your concerns re: the homework trauma with the teacher.
> 
> ...


 
He's (Scottish) Primary 3 which is equivalent to Year 2... he had a proper learning support assessment at the start of last year and it came back that he had a reading age of ten then, which is when the previous teacher decided to lay off making him do school reading books as anything other than a help to his social skills. The new teacher is young but I don't think this will be her first class, she looks mid twentiesish.

Why he hates homework? Combination of he's tired and emotional anyway about the whole new teacher/classroom etc and back to school is just a bit of a shock I guess after the summer we've had, and his confidence seems to have had a big knock so I think he's afraid of getting it wrong. He's very hyper-critical of himself so if he makes a mistake and has to rub it out it's a cause for great wailing and gnashing of teeth, he'll even smack himself in the face and go 'I'm so stupid' etc  He'll often tell me he doesn't understand the question. Mostly though I think he just resents the intrusion on his free time tbh. And I find it hard to argue with that


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## Mrs Magpie (Sep 10, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> my favourite homework kid2 had in reception was rearranging letters to see how many different words they could make, her word was THIS: "look daddy i can spell shit "


Well, a quick look says hits and shit, so not a great choice for exciting anagramming.


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## Sweet FA (Sep 10, 2012)

The new teacher needs to look at his fucking assessment then . I bet they'll have had an INSET or something in which homework came up as a focus so the whole school's all over it. I never give homework for the 1st 2 weeks of autumn/spring term for the reasons you outline - there's enough shit on their plates without taking the school trauma into their safe place (home). Also it's a recognised fact that many children 'drop' a level or 2 over summer; unsurprising as most kids (quite rightly imo) don't do 'schoolwork' over summer/christmas holidays. For this reason, homework should be open-ended, investigative and fun; their brains need to switch back into 'academic' mode. 

The hyper-critical thing - I've had this with Lil'FA & it drives me bananas. She spends more time rubbing stuff out (and consequently making a pig's ear of her book) than actually writing. I've still not found a way around this apart from focussing on 'putting one neat line' through any mistakes and carrying on. Plus lots of chats about how learning is all about making mistakes and if we don't make mistakes we can't learn from them yadda yadda. 

I'm with you both on the intrusion. Do you think turning it into a game might help? Making it a competition? Doing it in 10 min chunks with another 'fun' activity in the breaks? 

Interestingly, Scotland doesn't appear to have a prescribed time for homework; http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2004/11/20237/46461


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## Sweet FA (Sep 10, 2012)

Michael Gove Scraps Government Homework Guidelines

So those guidelines I posted earlier are defunct - it _is_ actually the school's fault  Fucking teachers 


Homework 'causes conflict' in the home - should primary school children be given homework?


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## trashpony (Sep 10, 2012)

killer b said:


> you may find this changes soon - when martha first went to school last year, she refused to talk about what she'd been doing there at all, and a friend who's kid has just entered reception is finding the exact same thing occurring - she loosened up quickly enough. think she just wanted to find her feet...


 Yeah I agree with this - once Elliot realised that his teacher had sent him books home for him to read to me, he got into the swing of it (although he still says it's boring which makes me want to weep).

I'm very anti-homework but I still find myself becoming anxious that he is lagging behind some of his peers


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## extra dry (Sep 10, 2012)

I moved three times while school aged 5-7 7-11 12-18 home work was instilled in to me by family and friends, I struggled each physics night for hours.  I never did not do it though.


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## wayward bob (Sep 10, 2012)

weeps might it be helpful to speak to his previous teacher do you think? maybe she could have a chat with middle boy, show him that school are still on his side, want to help him to settle back in. and equally maybe she could have a word with his new teacher as well. pastoral care should be their top priority when it comes to littlies, especially littlies who are dealing with distressing personal circumstances. good luck anyway, hope this afternoon's chat went well x


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## weepiper (Sep 10, 2012)

Well as it turned out it was pissing down rain at home time  so I've left the chat for now, however I've had a look in his homework bag and this week's homework seems much more appropriate anyway - he's to read his library book that he chose himself (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory) for 15 mins and write two 'wow words' from it down in his homework jotter, do the 'as many sums as you can in a minute sheet' once a day, choose one spelling activity from a list of ten or so to do with this week's spelling words and make up a positive name for himself that starts with the same letter as his name e.g. 'Happy Horatio' or whatever. Set today, to be done for Friday. It still seems like quite a lot tbh but better than before. Am still going to have a talk about the shouting but not when she's standing out in the rain in ballet pumps


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## purenarcotic (Sep 10, 2012)

That at least sounds a more realistic level of work, still ridiculous that any has to be done at all though. 

I wonder if the high level of maths is being pushed so much because we're do so poorly internationally maths wise.  Probably because we make it really dull and boring by making maths nothing but endless worksheets.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 10, 2012)

My daughter has just gone into the first year. She super enjoyed reception, but this morning she did not want  to go into class because she said she didn't enjoy learning.
I have been trying to teach her about the 'joys' of learning all weekend, as she was also not keen on doing her homework and got easily distracted. She really doesn't like math, and would rather just blurt out numbers in an complacently uneducated guess.

We got though it but I am sad that she does not want to learn. I'm quite a 'fun' daddy and try to make every thing a game etc but she sees that the game (or whatever) is trying to teach her something and she complains.


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## porp (Sep 11, 2012)

tangentlama said:


> No. It's a waste of these kids' valuable playing and sleep time.
> 
> Who wants them to stay up late to do homework?
> At their age they should be in bed by 7pm.
> ...


 
As a regular do-er  /  overseer of homework with my 5-year old, I agree with every word of this.He likes it and does it with some enthusiasm -  so far. A 5 -year old is in formal classroom education for a good six hours every day (ish) , and if they can't fit in the necessary in that time, they ought to cut the curriculum down to a manageable size.

It does seem that this is not the kind of thing one ought to say. Apparently in China 3-year olds study for 39 hours a day, or whatever, and so our children have to be broken on this crazy wheel as well.

Un autre monde est possible!


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## equationgirl (Sep 12, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Any tips on how to deal with a homework refuser Sweet FA? The 6 year old has a violent hatred of it, to the point that getting him to do anything beyond his reading (which he still resents, because what he gets given is frankly dull and he can do it with his eyes shut having taught himself to read age 3, but he will do it without too much fuss) involves tantrums with actual tears most days.


Can he be allowed to pick his own books to read at school? I was a similar type of reader, and my primary school allowed me to choose a book from the shelves of the classes ahead of me.

Is the homework just too basic for him, too boring?


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## Greebo (Sep 12, 2012)

porp said:


> As a regular do-er / overseer of homework with my 5-year old, I agree with every word of this.He likes it and does it with some enthusiasm - so far. A 5 -year old is in formal classroom education for a good six hours every day (ish) , and if they can't fit in the necessary in that time, they ought to cut the curriculum down to a manageable size.
> <snip>
> Un autre monde est possible!


So I should bloody well hope!


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## equationgirl (Sep 12, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> That at least sounds a more realistic level of work, still ridiculous that any has to be done at all though.
> 
> I wonder if the high level of maths is being pushed so much because we're do so poorly internationally maths wise. Probably because we make it really dull and boring by making maths nothing but endless worksheets.


I think that at primary school level, focusing on addition, subtraction, division and multiplication would be a lot more worthwhile than timed tests and worksheets. Make math relate to the children and there's a fighting chance they'll 'get' it more than abstract questions about arranging books on shelves.


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## kittyP (Sep 12, 2012)

Imho, yes just from working in SEN but, homework for primary should be set as a thing that it either get's done or it doesn't. 
Teachers should be obliged to provide it but the child should not be obliged to complete it. 
There are such a complex multitude of reasons why any child at any given time may not be able to complete homework and none of them are the fault of a small child ffs.


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## purenarcotic (Sep 12, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> I think that at primary school level, focusing on addition, subtraction, division and multiplication would be a lot more worthwhile than timed tests and worksheets. Make math relate to the children and there's a fighting chance they'll 'get' it more than abstract questions about arranging books on shelves.


 
Well I always thought doing it via games that reflected real life was better.  You know, playing 'shop' and all that; giving over money and working out what change to give.  Or if a kid likes a board game, doing it that way, whatever. 

God even sat round a circle making up songs is frankly preferable than mind numbing worksheets.


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## fractionMan (Oct 3, 2012)

Powerpoint.

Powerpoint homework.

For seven year olds.


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## killer b (Oct 3, 2012)

jesus shitting christ.


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## fractionMan (Oct 3, 2012)

that was pretty much my reaction.


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## trashpony (Oct 3, 2012)

The dad says no I reckon.

Was thinking about this thread the other day - at the foal's school, he gets fuck all homework except for reading until he goes to junior school (yr 3). At the other local school, they get loads apparently 

FFS - there are kids starting reception who are falling asleep after a half day


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## killer b (Oct 3, 2012)

powerpoint is the most worthless program ever. and if he ever needed to use it, he could learn it in 15 minutes. give the kid some sums instead. or nothing, and let him play football.


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## trashpony (Oct 3, 2012)

I'd go for option 2


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## killer b (Oct 3, 2012)

obviously. me too.


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 3, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Powerpoint.
> 
> Powerpoint homework.
> 
> For seven year olds.


 
My daughter loves arsing about with computers, and powerpoint. Can't remember when she first started doing powerpoint at school but it was probably a bit later than 7. She did a presentation on her favourite author I think. It's good to get kids doing presentations to the class from an early age. I know plenty of adults who are fucking terrified of it. (Probably because speaking to the class was a punishment when we grew up - if you got caught talking...).

FWIW her school seems to set a bit of homework for the weekend which is usually half an hour (certainly no more than an hour) and maybe a project for school holidays. They don't go mad if it isn't done either, especially if there's a good explanation like going away for the weekend.


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## killer b (Oct 3, 2012)

presenting to class is a good idea. using powerpoint to present anything at all, bad.


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 3, 2012)

killer b said:


> presenting to class is a good idea. using powerpoint to present anything at all, bad.


 
Yeah fair enough.


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## weepiper (Oct 3, 2012)

Powerpoint homework for primary school kids can FUCK RIGHT OFF. Quite apart from anything else, way to paint up class divisions at an early age. What if you don't have a computer at home? You're telling me a 7 year old has to go to the municipal library to do fucking _homework_? Get it right fucking up ye.


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## weepiper (Oct 3, 2012)

I would also be writing a letter to the head saying all that. Possibly with a little less swearing.


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## fractionMan (Oct 3, 2012)

I have thought about mentioning that even if you've got a pc, powerpoint is hardly a free application.


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## nagapie (Oct 3, 2012)

trashpony said:


> FFS - there are kids starting reception who are falling asleep after a half day


 
Today I happened to be on a 3.45 bus. It was full of mums trying to keep their primary school aged kids awake with crisps so they could get them home. They were literally closing their eyes, crisp in mouth.


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## purenarcotic (Oct 3, 2012)

killer b said:


> presenting to class is a good idea. using powerpoint to present anything at all, bad.


 
In my day we had show and tell to practice those skills.  You know, something fun and meaningful for the child.  Not shitty powerpoint.


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## equationgirl (Oct 3, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Powerpoint.
> 
> Powerpoint homework.
> 
> For seven year olds.


NO. Way. No. Fucking. WAY!!!!! 

Unacceptable as homework for that age group, and assumes that all children have access to a computer with that software, and an adult to help them. Unbelievable and inappropriate


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## gaijingirl (Oct 3, 2012)

If the school is setting homework such as powerpoint presentations it should also be providing homework clubs with access to computers and the necessary programmes.  At least that's how it works in my school.  Some of our students have very difficult home circumstances - we can hardly expect them to have that kind of equipment at home.  That's inner London secondary though.

I'm a bit worried about all of this.  My toddler goes to nursery and we get given a book to read to her every week and we have to record what she says in a little booklet to bring back.  Not that anyone would have a go if we didn't (I don't think) but I am a bit of a failure at this because by the time I get her home it's a battle to get dinner into her and get her and her sister into bed. I read her the book at bed usually but sometimes she just wants one of her old favourites.  How there will ever be time for homework I can't imagine?  I suspect we'll have to lose a day at the weekend if she ends up with loads.


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## trashpony (Oct 3, 2012)

gg - seriously, don't bother. To be blunt, I've realised that a lot of the stuff they give parents is entirely related to their expectations of parenting in the area you're living in. Most children don't get read to. What the nursery is proposing is a way of getting those parents who don't read to their kids to read to them. I'm fairly sure they don't expect you to ditch the loved reading for the unloved nursery book.

Having said that, I struggle to do reading too (as in getting him to read to me). I often don't get home until nearly 7pm and as far as I know children who go to childcare don't get help from CMs etc to do their homework. So are the children of FT working parents just at a permanent disadvantage? Or does that just prove that homework before the child can actually take responsibility themselves for it is a total waste of everyone's time?


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## weepiper (Oct 3, 2012)

trashpony said:


> Having said that, I struggle to do reading too (as in getting him to read to me). I often don't get home until nearly 7pm and as far as I know children who go to childcare don't get help from CMs etc to do their homework. So are the children of FT working parents just at a permanent disadvantage? Or does that just prove that homework before the child can actually take responsibility themselves for it is a total waste of everyone's time?


 
It's just another example of how the school system generally is behind the times. They expect every family to be of the two parents in the house, one breadwinner, one stay at home model. That is no longer the norm. Another example of this is how my kids have got parents' evening next week, the appointments are between 6 and 8pm but you're not supposed to bring the kids with you. And school holidays are a nightmare if you're working too.


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## nagapie (Oct 3, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Another example of this is how my kids have got parents' evening next week, the appointments are between 6 and 8pm but you're not supposed to bring the kids with you. And school holidays are a nightmare if you're working too.


 
No way, at our parents' evenings all the siblings come with and the children are actually meant to come. They are part of the process. 

Hands off my holidays though! Soon to be a thing of the past if Gove manages to increase teachers' hours I'm sure.


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## gaijingirl (Oct 3, 2012)

Yes that is weird.. it's like a giant nursery in our place during parents' evenings!


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## weepiper (Oct 3, 2012)

I think it's a space thing, the school's ridiculously overcramped as it is (roll is nearly 700 and it's a Victorian building) and they are currently having some building work done (although that's all external I think  )


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## purenarcotic (Oct 3, 2012)

At primary and for most of secondary we weren't present for the chat with teachers but there was no issue if parents needed to bring the kids with them.  I remember the school secretary stayed late at primary school and put out games and stuff in another room and at secondary we could just hang out in the classroom until we were old enough to just be left at home.


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## gaijingirl (Oct 3, 2012)

weepiper said:


> I think it's a space thing, the school's ridiculously overcramped as it is (roll is nearly 700 and it's a Victorian building) and they are currently having some building work done (although that's all external I think  )


 

are they having all the parents' in on one evening?  We do it year by year on different evenings... but are you talking primary?  I have all this to come...


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## weepiper (Oct 3, 2012)

gaijingirl said:


> are they having all the parents' in on one evening? We do it year by year on different evenings... but are you talking primary? I have all this to come...


 
Primary yes, but over two evenings. They're doing it at tables in the gym hall rather than in the classrooms which I don't really understand  so I suppose space is at a premium when you have a table with two chairs for 21-odd teachers in there, plus parents waiting...


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## trashpony (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm exactly the same as weeps - I put my name down for the early sessions (you can request between 3-5pm rather than an evening session) and then I either leave Elliot with a mate or get a babysitter. Next time I'm going to take him and give him the ipod while I'm waiting because I've noticed that other people bring their kids and it's a major hassle for me to leave him at home.

TBH - a lot of kids have both parents that want to come so they're in just as much of a bind as the single ones.

Ha - weeps your school sounds pretty much identical to Elliot's!


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## gaijingirl (Oct 3, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Primary yes, but over two evenings. They're doing it at tables in the gym hall rather than in the classrooms which I don't really understand  so I suppose space is at a premium when you have a table with two chairs for 21-odd teachers in there, plus parents waiting...


 
we do it in the gym too - it's partly safety in numbers - we are discouraged from meeting parents alone in classrooms (although in fact we do this on another "target setting" day.  But for secondary it's also just easier for the parents to get from table to table without having to tour the entire school... but I suppose with primary you're just going to see the one teacher so it shouldn't really matter.


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## weepiper (Oct 3, 2012)

gaijingirl said:


> but I suppose with primary you're just going to see the one teacher so it shouldn't really matter.


 
Two kids, two teachers though


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## purenarcotic (Oct 3, 2012)

Yup, that's what happened with me, trashy; both my mum and dad wanted to come, so I had to come with.


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## gaijingirl (Oct 3, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Two kids, two teachers though


 
no I meant it shouldn't really matter from the pov of having the event in the gym v. the classroom - as one would only be seeing a limited number of teachers - maybe one or two/three.  At secondary parents would be meeting 8 or more teachers.


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## Thora (Oct 4, 2012)

gaijingirl said:


> If the school is setting homework such as powerpoint presentations it should also be providing homework clubs with access to computers and the necessary programmes. At least that's how it works in my school. Some of our students have very difficult home circumstances - we can hardly expect them to have that kind of equipment at home. That's inner London secondary though.
> 
> I'm a bit worried about all of this. My toddler goes to nursery and we get given a book to read to her every week and we have to record what she says in a little booklet to bring back. Not that anyone would have a go if we didn't (I don't think) but I am a bit of a failure at this because by the time I get her home it's a battle to get dinner into her and get her and her sister into bed. I read her the book at bed usually but sometimes she just wants one of her old favourites. How there will ever be time for homework I can't imagine? I suspect we'll have to lose a day at the weekend if she ends up with loads.


Nurseries love sending things home with parents (and having parents come in) because it shows Ofsted they are working in partnership which is something they are very hot on at the moment.  They probably don't care if you actually do it or not


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## extra dry (Oct 4, 2012)

Thora said:


> Nurseries love sending things home with parents (and having parents come in) because it shows Ofsted they are working in partnership which is something they are very hot on at the moment. They probably don't care if you actually do it or not


 
just say you did not have time in the evening to fit it in...


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## extra dry (Oct 4, 2012)

I have heard all sorts of excuses the dog ate the table leg, they could not work because the light is too bright at night, our grandmother cooked for us...his pen ran out...


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## trashpony (Oct 4, 2012)

My dog did genuinely eat my homework once. And a pair of my knickers (which he puked up again)


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## weepiper (Oct 6, 2014)

So in the last 24 hours I have had to supervise/assist with the 6 year old preparing a 2 minute talk on a sea creature, the 8 year old finishing his model of an old Edinburgh tenement and the 11 year old picking ten quotes that demonstrate character traits out of her reading homework (and explaining what they demonstrate). As well as making them all do their reading. WTaF.


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## extra dry (Oct 7, 2014)

The international schools here are now instructing kids read English language books for 20-30 minutes everyday after school. Some kids as young as 4 or 5 being requested to do this.  I thought it a bit too much for that age, but have seen marked improvement in some the students I teach at the language center I currently work in. Just thought I would share that.


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## equationgirl (Oct 7, 2014)

weepiper said:


> So in the last 24 hours I have had to supervise/assist with the 6 year old preparing a 2 minute talk on a sea creature, the 8 year old finishing his model of an old Edinburgh tenement and the 11 year old picking ten quotes that demonstrate character traits out of her reading homework (and explaining what they demonstrate). As well as making them all do their reading. WTaF.


That's a lot. I hope they don't have the same tonight.


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