# Save Gordon Grove Adventure Playground



## bimble (Dec 3, 2015)

New thread because it deserves one.. info to follow very soon.


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## ringo (Dec 3, 2015)

My littlun had many a happy afternoon charging around that place. Redvelopment for "luxury" flats?


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## bimble (Dec 3, 2015)

ringo said:


> My littlun had many a happy afternoon charging around that place. Redvelopment for "luxury" flats?


Basically yes, how did you guess, but not yet a done deal.


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## ringo (Dec 3, 2015)

bimble said:


> Basically yes, how did you guess, but not yet a completely done deal.



Twats. There are redevelopments that I can't really argue about - crap old buildings being made into homes, but playgrounds and community spaces like this, its criminal.


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## Gramsci (Dec 4, 2015)

From what I remember of the last consultation about the LJ Masterplan there were no definite plans for the Adventure playground. That is its still be consulted on.

Its something on our table we thought should be kept.

As far as I know the LJ Masterplan is not yet finished. So would be interested to know if bimble as new info on this site.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2015)

I'm actually surprised that Lambeth haven't tried "regenerating" the adventure playground on Greenleaf Close (on Tulse Hill estate). In fact that whole strip from the Tulse Hill entrance.


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## bimble (Dec 5, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'm actually surprised that Lambeth haven't tried "regenerating" the adventure playground on Greenleaf Close (on Tulse Hill estate). In fact that whole strip from the Tulse Hill entrance.


Not sure to what extent they are all in danger of 'regeneration' but definitely got the impression that all of Lambeth's adventure playgrounds are being looked at closely, because funding cuts.
Cllr Jane Pickard (cabinet member for Children & Families) who was at Gordon Grove meeting, said she was visiting them all and collecting data.
The thing with Gordon Grove is that its 'regeneration' in one way or another is already part of the LJ Masterplan, and so it's further along down the route to being replaced by flats than most.

Sorry for the delay in putting info here - just want to make sure I get stuff right before posting.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2015)

bimble said:


> I am not sure to what extend they are all in danger of 'regeneration' but definitely got the impression that all of Lambeth's adventure playgrounds are being looked at closely, because funding cuts. Cllr Jane Pickard (cabinet member for Children & Families) who was at Gordon Grove meeting, said she was visiting them all and collecting data.


Not the first time Lambeth has "reviewed" their adventure playgrounds, either. I'm fairly sure we lost a couple of littl'uns in the '90s to funding cuts and rising property prices. 



> The thing with Gordon Grove is that its 'regeneration' in one way or another is already part of the LJ Masterplan, and so it's further along down the route to being replaced by flats than most.



"Regeneration", for the council, is a very convenient term that,as with Humpty-Dumpty, means whatever they say it means. In Lambeth's case, given the paucity of banked land, it does invariably mean "flogged for development though. We're going to see more and more encroachment on socially useful but publicly-owned resources - it'd be unavoidable even if our local authority wasn't so economically-inept, morally-corrupt and poorly-resourced.



> Sorry for the delay in putting info here - I just want to make sure I get stuff right before posting.


No problem!


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## bimble (Dec 5, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> "Regeneration", for the council, is a very convenient term that,as with Humpty-Dumpty, means whatever they say it means.


Yes. The document about the playground from the masterplan is a complete triumph in terms of doublespeak. To regenerate something in this context actually means.. make it completely stop existing.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2015)

bimble said:


> Yes. The document about the playground from the masterplan is a complete triumph in terms of doublespeak. To regenerate something in this context actually means.. make it completely stop existing.



Pretty much what it means for Cressingham Gardens estate. They may give what's built in its' place the same name, but it won't be the same place.


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## bimble (Dec 5, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Pretty much what it means for Cressingham Gardens estate. They may give what's built in its' place the same name, but it won't be the same place.


Of course. They're not planning to name it Brockwell Quarter?


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2015)

bimble said:


> Of course. They're not planning to name it Brockwell Quarter?




Actually, one of the companies tendering for the masterplanning gig for Cressingham spoke of re-branding the estate as some kind of quarter. Mind you, this was the same bunch of arsenuggets who assumed that the mounds at the back of the estate were developable land (they're not, they're part of the Brockwell Park conservation area), and that they can develop a "feature" green boulevard through the estate to the park (even though this would use up developable land, and mean that any development would have to go higher).


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## bimble (Jan 5, 2016)

Just had a first look through the 'stage 2 consultation report' here Loughborough Junction Masterplan | Lambeth Council

Please, anyone who was at that consultation tell me whether your table did what the report says "many tables" did:













ie) *the consultation report says that there was a lot of support for the idea of replacing the adventure playground with flats, and making a new (tiny) playground inside the park opposite instead. *

It does not mention 'improving' the adventure playground as an option at all.
There were 4 options presented to us at that consultation. 2 of them involved totally replacing the adventure playground with flats, 2 didn't.

The report now only talks about "replacing" it with some little crap thing in the park.


I don't know - I'm just asking: CH1 critical1 Gramsci concerned1 teuchter & anyone else who may have been there..
*Please confirm if your table did come the conclusion above, supported the idea of getting rid of the adventure playground on Gordon Grove and replacing it with flats, b*y favouriting one of the options on the plan which showed 5 storey flats replacing it. Mine didn't.
There is no mention of any objections to this idea in the consultation report.

     

It concludes:


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## CH1 (Jan 5, 2016)

bimble said:


> Just had a first look through the 'stage 2 consultation report' here Loughborough Junction Masterplan | Lambeth Council
> Please, anyone who was at that consultation tell me whether your table did what the report says "many tables" did:


I didn't attend any of those consultation meetings. Haven't check the dates, but they all had clashes for me. I wasn't formally boycotting or anything.

In any event it does seem more logical to me to repair and maintain the existing adventure playground and let the agrotherapists at LJAG continue their good work on Elam park space. Why ruin two good projects in order to shoehorn in yet more crappy undersized flats - affordable or otherwise?


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## bimble (Jan 5, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Why ruin two good projects in order to shoehorn in yet more crappy undersized flats - affordable or otherwise?


Weell.. because transforming the playground (council owned land) into 5 storey private development flats = money for the council.


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## CH1 (Jan 5, 2016)

bimble said:


> Weell.. because transforming the playground (council owned land) into 5 storey private development flats = money for the council.


The erstwhile Barrington Lodge will be online soon. They'll have council tax coming out of their ears!


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## Gramsci (Jan 5, 2016)

bimble said:


> I don't know - I'm just asking: CH1 critical1 Gramsci concerned1 teuchter & anyone else who may have been there..
> *Please confirm if your table did come the conclusion above, supported the idea of getting rid of the adventure playground on Gordon Grove and replacing it with flats, b*y favouriting one of the options on the plan which showed 5 storey flats replacing it. Mine didn't.
> There is no mention of any objections to this idea in the consultation report.



My table did not support this.


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## Gramsci (Jan 5, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I didn't attend any of those consultation meetings. Haven't check the dates, but they all had clashes for me. I wasn't formally boycotting or anything.
> 
> In any event it does seem more logical to me to repair and maintain the existing adventure playground and let the agrotherapists at LJAG continue their good work on Elam park space. Why ruin two good projects in order to shoehorn in yet more crappy undersized flats - affordable or otherwise?



Council argument is that the Youth centre is out of date. ( Didnt look in bad condition when I saw it.) But I would like to see a surveyors report on the building before just accepting the Council view. 

The only way for Council to raise funds to be invested in area for community benefit is to flog off the family silver, so to speak. 

All seems short termist to me. So what happens 20 years down the line when new money is needed for ongoing refurbishment etc?

I oppose selling off Council land like this. Once its gone its gone.


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## Gramsci (Jan 6, 2016)

bimble said:


> Just had a first look through the 'stage 2 consultation report' here Loughborough Junction Masterplan | Lambeth Council



"there was a discussion on its placement in Elam Open Spaces"

What actually happened was that the officers suggested that this was a good idea. That is they led the discussion. 

Its when consultation takes this form that I question whether its good idea to attend these events. The report phrasing makes it appear that the discussion was a neutral process. When in fact one has to be careful not to be carried along by it all. Council set the agenda. 

Subtly at consultation meetings they encourage those attending to see it from there point of view. 

That is not imo the position those residents who attend need to take. Its not our role to back up the Council.


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## CH1 (Jan 6, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> Council argument is that the Youth centre is out of date. ( Didnt look in bad condition when I saw it.) But I would like to see a surveyors report on the building before just accepting the Council view.
> 
> The only way for Council to raise funds to be invested in area for community benefit is to flog off the family silver, so to speak.
> 
> ...


Myself and bimble were at a day-time meeting there before I went down with the lurgy.
Meeting seemed informal to the point of not organised. Matt Parr turned up as I was leaving, so not sure what his feeling on this were.

I think what people need to bear in mind is that when the council flog off small sites they are almost always end up as Lexadon luxury rental flats.
So any development would certainly a case of selling off the family silver - definitely no social housing or indeed any other social benefit - unless you believe in creating "mixed communities" by gentrification!

CORRECTION - we were at a meeting at the Adventure Playground, not Marcus Lipton Centre


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## Winot (Mar 27, 2017)

Relevant article from the Spectator (of all places) about a similar fight in Newcastle:

Save our green! The local battle which exposed the war against Britain's green space | Coffee House


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## Gramsci (Mar 29, 2017)

Went to the meeting last night about the Adventure Playground. It was constructive meeting. Plan is to get it open for summer. Someone offered to write business plan. 

As it's been closed for while a new condition survey is needed. To see how much money is needed to get it in working order.

Helen Hayes MP turned up. Which is a good sign.

Next meeting is 11th April. Will keep posters updated.

bimble 

Main thing imo is to get the Adventure Playground in use.


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## bimble (Apr 1, 2017)

Sorry i was away for both recent meetings, back now and have emailed to see if I can help regarding fundraising.
Just received the update from LJAG :Save the Grove APG - progress reprt

I think the idea of getting the playground open at least for a few weeks this Summer is excellent - get it back in use, even without a long term plan in place. It is too easy for them to claim that it won't be missed whilst it's left locked and deserted as it is now.


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## bimble (Apr 1, 2017)

This thing here - the Council's 'inspection report' on the condition of thew playground. It is seriously disheartening.
Lambeth's Inspection Report 

The opening sentence:

"The Grove Adventure Playground has been closed down and the site is planned for development. This inspection was to ascertain whether the playground structures are suitable for being transferred to other adventure playgrounds and also to give advice on other health and safety matters which may be apparent."

That's as clear as you can get that lambeth has no intention at all of allowing the playground to re-open. Which does not mean its impossible, just that it will be hard.
Yes the place needs work but it was full of children having fun a few months ago.


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## bimble (Apr 1, 2017)

This is the playground by the way (pics from after the place was locked last summer)







Its bordered behind by a huge scrap metal yard and on the left by the railway line. The council has not said yet what amount of money they expect to be able to sell the plot to developers for.


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## CH1 (Apr 1, 2017)

Shouldn't Lambeth be given these closed up adventure playcgrounds to GLL rather than libraries?
Adventure play would appear to be closer to GLL's core expertise.

BTW demo at Carnegie 1 pm Sat April 1st - one year anniversary of closure. Apparently fancy dress is encouraged.


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## Gramsci (Apr 1, 2017)

bimble said:


> This is the playground by the way (pics from after the place was locked last summer)
> View attachment 103300
> 
> 
> ...



An annoying thing about this report is that a decision to redevelop the site appears to be already taken.

When at the LJ Neighbourhood Planning Forums we kept on being told no decision has been made.

A case of making a decision and trying to get the consultation to fit.


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## bimble (Apr 2, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> An annoying thing about this report is that a decision to redevelop the site appears to be already taken.
> 
> When at the LJ Neighbourhood Planning Forums we kept on being told no decision has been made.
> 
> A case of making a decision and trying to get the consultation to fit.



Yep. And as you know, the attempt to make the consultation fit went as far as 'mistakenly' saying that people had declared themselves in favour (of replacing the playground with flats) when in fact they had not.


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## bimble (Apr 10, 2017)

Next meeting on this is tomorrow evening (11th April). if anyone can make it that would be great.


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## TopCat (Apr 10, 2017)

I was putting together a crew to squat the place and reopen it but they sussed me and installed guardians.


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## bimble (Apr 10, 2017)

Yep. Guardians = the council gets some income whilst the playground is shut. Also means that any effort to re-open, for a Summer play scheme in the short term, will need to get an 'ok' from the Guardian company.

Anyone who has knowledge of running play schemes or contacts in the world of playgrounds, or might be willing to help get the wooden equipment back in good condition please say, or send Pm. Or come to tomorrow's meeting.


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## Gramsci (May 25, 2017)

I was looking up housing in Notting hill and came across this doc on adventure playground in Notting Hill. It must be one of the early ones. Interview the children who use it. It's old. Some things have changed some haven't. Shows the need for these spaces in a city. The way they cater for large age group and how they bring people together. Pity Lambeth Council gave forgotten this.


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## Gramsci (Jun 4, 2017)

Some updates on what had been happening.

A survey has shown that the APG is basically sound. With about £500 needed plus some volunteers to do remedial works. Don't know date yet for this. 

Grant funding has been applied for.

Some updates on what had been happening.

A stuctural survey has shown that the APG is basically sound. With about £500 needed plus some volunteers to do remedial works. Don't know date yet for this.

Grant funding has been applied for summer use.


Save the Grove Adventure Playground - the next meeting

Grove Adventure Playground Update


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## bimble (Jun 22, 2017)




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## Gramsci (Jun 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> View attachment 109903
> 
> View attachment 109904



I will be there.


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## bimble (Jun 22, 2017)

Excellent 
(i can't make this Saturday but will be at the following two volunteer days.)


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## Gramsci (Jun 25, 2017)

Clearing the entrance to the APG and starting to repaint it.

After


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## Gramsci (Jun 25, 2017)

Helen Hayes MP came along. Photo of some who helped. Helen third from left.


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## Gramsci (Jun 25, 2017)

Looking through the fence.


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## Gramsci (Jun 25, 2017)

The front entrance has this painting. Its getting a bit worn.

Does anyone know a street artist who might like to do a new painting?

editor


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## Gramsci (Jun 25, 2017)

There will be more volunteer days.


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## Gramsci (Jul 3, 2017)

HELP NEEDED: Grove Adenture Playground DIY days Friday 7 July and Saturday 8 July


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## bimble (Jul 6, 2017)

Bump: two move volunteer days coming up, tomorrow and Saturday. 
The playground will be temporarily re-opened for a Saturday Play Scheme this Summer holidays and we need to get it all up to standard and tidy in time for that starting in a couple of weeks. Please come even if you can only spare an hour or two.


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## editor (Jul 6, 2017)

Hope this helps: Save Gordon Grove Adventure Playground – DIY Volunteer Days, Fri 7th/Sat 8th July


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## bimble (Jul 6, 2017)

Brilliant thank you


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## bimble (Jul 7, 2017)

Quick, i'm bringing tea in a minute. Lovely day for working with your hands outdoors.


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## Gramsci (Jul 8, 2017)

Today working on Adventure playground


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## Gramsci (Jul 8, 2017)

Had a good day painting and bit of carpentry. Good to see bimble 

Got a lot of interest from passers by.


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## bimble (Jul 14, 2017)

The beginnings of a website: mysite 


Tomorrow, Saturday 15th, I'll be there from 10am - if anyone is available to come and help do some more work on the site please come along. Bring paint if you can get your hands on any!


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## Gramsci (Jul 14, 2017)

Grove Adventure Playground  - DIY day tomorrow Saturday 15 July and next working group meeting


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## editor (Jul 14, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> Grove Adventure Playground  - DIY day tomorrow Saturday 15 July and next working group meeting


Let me Buzz that now...

Come help the Grove Adventure Playground in Brixton – DIY day, Sat 15th July 10am-1pm


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## bimble (Jul 15, 2017)

Bit rainy for painting today but will be there anyway. 
Please anybody who is interested in developments as the time draws near to re-opening the playground sign up for news by subscribing at the bottom of this page here .


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## Gramsci (Jul 15, 2017)

Local skip hire firm donated two skips. Which we filled up. Lot of old wood and rubbish that had collected over the years. Playground looks lot better.


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## bimble (Jul 19, 2017)

There's a meeting 6.30pm this evening at the playground (Gordon Grove, just off Minet Road) to discuss both immediate and longer term plans. 
Open to all, please come if you can, we do need more people.


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## Gramsci (Jul 21, 2017)

GROVE DIY DAY - tomorrow Saturday 22 July from 10am to 4pm with free lunch


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## bimble (Jul 25, 2017)

I love this place.


We plan to re-open for the free summer play scheme on Saturday 5th August. 

There will be jerk chicken and hopefully a bouncy castle, to celebrate.


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## shygirl (Jul 29, 2017)

This is fantastic, well done guys!


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## Gramsci (Jul 30, 2017)

I was there yesterday helping out. More people were dropping by to see what is going on.

I had some interesting chats. With people who grew up in LJ. People who used it when they were younger. For them it was an an important part of there growing up. It was home from home. Then it was open most days. The staff knew all of them well. When they grew up there children used it. It was then an integral part of the local community. Back then it did all sorts of activities. One brought his nieces and nephews to have a look. They loved it.

The APG has a long history which is rembered fondly by the older locals. They would like to see it used like it was years ago. As one said there are a lot of parents with young children who need a facility like this.

One recalled the local  MP Marcus Lipton. The Youth Centre next door is named after him. He said he did a lot for local people living here.

I also met a couple of mothers with young children who want somewhere for there children to go. There is a lack of facilities for young children in the area.

All convinced me its right to try and keep the APG.

I wished the Labour Cllrs had heard all this. One of the Council's arguments for getting rid of it is that there is little demand in the area for a facility like this. The Labour party should get out more and talk to people. Imo the reason for the Labour party should be to campaign and stick up for the less well. Defend facilities like this. Not get rid of them. Once the APG is gone it's gone for good.

It's been an uphill struggle to get this far and persuade the Council to let us have it for the summer. Credit to
bimble and Anthea of LJAG for the time they have been putting into this.

The long term future of the APG is still in doubt.


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## Red Cat (Jul 30, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> I was looking up housing in Notting hill and came across this doc on adventure playground in Notting Hill. It must be one of the early ones. Interview the children who use it. It's old. Some things have changed some haven't. Shows the need for these spaces in a city. The way they cater for large age group and how they bring people together. Pity Lambeth Council gave forgotten this.




That's a great film


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## bimble (Aug 1, 2017)

We really need volunteers to help us make this work . 

We’re opening this Saturday (5th August) for a free Family Fun Day. 
The aim is to bring the community together and spread the word about this lovely local facility which is at risk of being permanently lost should the council proceed with their plans to turn the site into housing. 

Following this event, at which all are welcome, we badly need to find a few good volunteers to assist at the following 5 Saturdays, when we will be open from 10am to 4pm. 

Adventure Playgrounds require a high ratio of adult supervisors to children playing, and as a small voluntary group we are unable to pay for sufficient staff to ensure that everyone has a safe fun time whilst in the space. 

Please, if you  - or your friends - might be willing to volunteer your time to assist our professional Play Workers and ensure that as many children as possible get to enjoy the facility. 

If you are willing to offer your time we would be truly grateful. It would make all the difference in ensuring that Grove APG is a safe and welcoming place able to accommodate as many local children as possible.

Please click on the link below to let us know if you are willing to help: 
Volunteer Application Form
If you're not sure exactly which dates you’re available please don’t worry we can arrange nearer the time. 
Thank you ! 


www.grove-playground.org.uk
facebook: @GroveAdventurePlayground


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## Gramsci (Aug 1, 2017)




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## editor (Aug 1, 2017)

Buzzed! 
Grove Adventure Playground in Brixton hosts Family Fun Day on Saturday 5th Aug


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## Gramsci (Aug 1, 2017)

editor said:


> Buzzed!
> Grove Adventure Playground in Brixton hosts Family Fun Day on Saturday 5th Aug



This is very helpful. Contains all the info. Chatting to my neighbours and able to direct them to this article. People know Brixton Buzz.


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## Gramsci (Aug 4, 2017)

Fun day at the Grove Adenture Playground Saturday 5 August from 10am to 4pm


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## bimble (Aug 4, 2017)

Looking quite festive ..


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## mrs quoad (Aug 4, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> Fun day at the Grove Adenture Playground Saturday 5 August from 10am to 4pm


A playground for people who have lost all their teeth, _except one. 

?_


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## bimble (Aug 4, 2017)

mrs quoad said:


> A playground for people who have lost all their teeth, _except one.
> 
> ?_


 Are you saying it looks dangerous or suitable only for the ancient ?


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## mrs quoad (Aug 4, 2017)

bimble said:


> Are you saying it looks dangerous or suitable only for the ancient ?


A denture playground, apparently.


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## bimble (Aug 4, 2017)

Oops


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## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2017)

Bouncy Castle up.


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## planetgeli (Aug 5, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> View attachment 112571



The very best of luck for today. That's a great thing you've all done.


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## Gramsci (Aug 5, 2017)

Today went well. Parents and kids made these.


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## bimble (Aug 6, 2017)

It was a really beautiful day yesterday, fun was had by all (even during the bit when it poured down and we all had to huddle up under the shelter).

Would love to post some pictures but they're full of children so I don't think it's really ok to post them on social media as they're not mine.

Cllr Jane Pickard (cabinet minister for Families & Young People) came along and this morning she sent me a really quite encouraging email, which she cc'd all our 3 local councillors on. Whilst not of course a guarantee of anything that is good.


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## bimble (Aug 10, 2017)

This lot has got to be alright to put here i think, just gives an idea of the niceness of the day.. in retrospect we were really lucky with the weather..


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## bimble (Aug 17, 2017)

really big news: The People's Health Trust have just said yes to a really big grant - almost 50k !! to fund fully supervised play at the playground, it's probably enough to do Saturdays and holidays for two years.
We don't have a clue yet how the council will respond to this good news, (regeneration team is having a cabinet meeting on 12th September to discuss their plans for the future of the site)


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## shakespearegirl (Aug 17, 2017)

Fabulous news Bimble..


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## colacubes (Aug 17, 2017)

Top work bimble


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## bimble (Aug 17, 2017)

Changes everything, will have to be OFSTED registered & will bring loads of new challenges re the council but yep it's great !
(wasn't me who filled in the application for that grant)


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## sparkybird (Aug 17, 2017)

well done! I know how hard fundraising can be!


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## bimble (Aug 17, 2017)

Apart from the practical importance of the money it's really great that a nationwide charity said yes to such a significant grant because it shows that the project (this playground in this place, which the council was 'unable' to put one penny towards) is an important thing. It will definitely make it much harder to 'regenerate' the whole site into a block of flats.


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## editor (Aug 17, 2017)

bimble said:


> really big news: The People's Health Trust have just said yes to a really big grant - almost 50k !! to fund fully supervised play at the playground, it's probably enough to do Saturdays and holidays for two years.
> We don't have a clue yet how the council will respond to this good news, (regeneration team is having a cabinet meeting on 12th September to discuss their plans for the future of the site)


Fancy expanding on this for a Buzz piece?


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## Gramsci (Aug 19, 2017)

Anthea of LJAG put in the application to the People's Health Trust. She has done a lot to help save the APG.


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## snowy_again (Sep 6, 2017)

bimble   more green spaces funding available:

Greener City Fund


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## bimble (Sep 7, 2017)

thanks snowy_again looks like a potentially good match


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## snowy_again (Sep 7, 2017)

There's also a sport england programme today which might work: Tackling Inactivity and Economic Disadvantage


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## shygirl (Sep 10, 2017)

Great news, well done to everyone who's been involved.  It might be worth speaking to staff at Lollard Street Adventure Playground, cos it too was marked for closure by Lambeth. 

Staff +Trustees – Lollard Street Adventure Playground


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## bimble (Nov 20, 2017)

Very short notice but if anyone is free tomorrow - Tuesday - evening please come to The Platform - (the little building in the corner of the park next to the orange bridge). 
There'll be a meeting where the next steps and long term plans for the playground are discussed. 
Things have been taking much longer than hoped and part of this is because there are not enough people pulling together to keep the momentum going. 
It is important that as many people as possible get involved and get heard - please come if you can.


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## Gramsci (Nov 20, 2017)

Meeting tomorrow. I only just got this. Info on what's been happening recently is on this MailChimp. 

Save Grove Adventure Playground meeting Tuesday21 November at 6.30pm


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## Gramsci (Nov 20, 2017)

From the newsletter:


Save the Grove Adventure Playground monthly meeting
Tuesday 21 November at 6.30pm
at the Platform, Loughborough Road

Please come and join us on Tuesday 21 November at 6.30pm to help plan the future of the Grove Adventure Playground. We have funding from the People's Health Trust and we are now negotiating with Lambeth council to get the play building back, but there is still a lot to do before we reopen the playground and we need as many people as possible to get involved.  The Platform is the little building on Loughborough Road in Wyck Gardens on the corner of Ridgway Road.

Please click here for the agenda and a note from Tom Dobson on his negotiations with Lambeth council on the building and a draft business case.

The minutes of the last meeting to follow.


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## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> From the newsletter:
> 
> 
> Save the Grove Adventure Playground monthly meeting
> ...


If someone can knock out a short article with a bit more info, I can lob it up on Buzz asap.


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## SpamMisery (Nov 20, 2017)

What are the cafe opening times? I'm not sure I've ever seen it open


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## Oli Perrins (Mar 6, 2018)

Hi , Is there any news on this? Would like to get involved. As a special needs teacher and playworker, I know what a massive impact play centres can have.


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## bimble (Mar 6, 2018)

Hi Oli will pm you


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## editor (Mar 6, 2018)

And don;t forget to send me stuff if you want anything publicised on Buzz!


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## bimble (Mar 6, 2018)

editor it is a really complicated story, in short the councils plans to ‘regenerate’ the playground and Marcus Lipton youth center next door to provide new housing are very much ongoing.


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## Gramsci (Mar 15, 2018)




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## editor (Mar 15, 2018)

Gramsci said:


>



Buzzed: Volunteers needed for Fix & Play Day at Grove Adventure Playground, south London, Sat 14th Apr


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## Gramsci (Mar 15, 2018)

editor said:


> Buzzed: Volunteers needed for Fix & Play Day at Grove Adventure Playground, south London, Sat 14th Apr



Thanks


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## Tricky Skills (Apr 25, 2018)

The Council is now proposing a three year Meanwhile lease for LJAG to manage the playground.


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## bimble (Apr 25, 2018)

^ not exactly like the council just freely decided to propose this but yep.


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## Gramsci (Apr 26, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Council is now proposing a three year Meanwhile lease for LJAG to manage the playground.



From the officers report:



> The letting to LJAG is on the understanding that the site is part of the regeneration area and the
> Council makes no commitment to re-providing the facility or granting another lease to LJAG.



Don't we all just love the Cooperative Council?  Council officers are such caring humanitarians.


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## Gramsci (Apr 26, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Council is now proposing a three year Meanwhile lease for LJAG to manage the playground.




We in LJ should be grateful that are hard working officers in Lambeth council have granted us the generous two years before it's "regenerated" as part of Council policy in making diverse and sustainable neighborhoods.

Thank you so much Lambeth council.


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## Gramsci (Apr 26, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Council is now proposing a three year Meanwhile lease for LJAG to manage the playground.



The officers list the "risks" in allowing reopening of the APG.


> 2. The Tenant does not want to
> hand the premises back to the
> Council for redevelopment and
> increases pressure on the
> ...



Ie local people might not want the APG to be lost. What a frightening scenario for the council officers. On a prime piece of land just waiting to be redeveloped.


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## Gramsci (Apr 26, 2018)

I was at the last Grove APG diy day. We got a lot of work done. The Council report Tricky Skills posted makes no mention of the unpaid hours of work volunteers have put in to get the APG in working condition. That doesnt count in Cooperative Lambeth.

A few photos. One volunteer made these T shirts on the day.


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## Gramsci (Apr 26, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Council is now proposing a three year Meanwhile lease for LJAG to manage the playground.



Im impressed Tricky how do you dig these reports up?


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## Tricky Skills (Apr 26, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Im impressed Tricky how do you dig these reports up?



PM sent


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## Gramsci (May 8, 2018)

We still have lots more Work to Do Before
Our Playgrounds Summer Opening
Please come and Join us on Sunday 13th of May
 The Grove Adventure , Gordon Grove, SE5
From 11am. Lunch will be Provided
For Info Contact: grovevolunteers@gmail.com


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## Gramsci (Jun 6, 2018)

Loughborough Junction Action Group now have a 2 year lease for Grove Adventure Playground.

We have already been working on the building and the playground at regular Fix and Play Days.
We now have the keys for the building and there is lots of work to be done. 

Volunteers are now needed to help clear, clean and prepare for Opening for this Summer!

Some of us will be doing much needed work at the Playground over the next few weeks.
If you can come and lend a hand, I can keep you informed by Whatsapp or email.
Please send me an email at grovevolunteers@gmail.com with your contact details.

We will also be holding a couple of DIY days soon which you will be informed about.


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## editor (Jun 7, 2018)

More help needed! Volunteers needed at the Grove Adventure Playground, SE5


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## Gramsci (Jun 7, 2018)

editor said:


> More help needed! Volunteers needed at the Grove Adventure Playground, SE5



Thanks for putting this on Buzz.


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## bimble (Jun 12, 2018)

Really exciting that the building has finally been handed over, loads to do but getting those shutters up for the first time in years is


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## Gramsci (Jun 13, 2018)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Council is now proposing a three year Meanwhile lease for LJAG to manage the playground.



Yes it was three years originally. You weren't wrong.

Council officers changed there minds. Its now two years.

Im not happy with this.

It's taken far to long to get the building. By the time the project gets off the ground two years is short time. This is intentional on officers part.

Officers in Regeneration are hiring consultants to work up redevelopment plans for the whole site. The APG and the Youth centre. Budget for that is £50 000 I've heard.

They haven't asked locals about this.


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## Gramsci (Jun 15, 2018)

Volunteer at the Grove


As you can see we need lots of Help to get Grove Adventure Playground open for the Summer Holiday 2018

We are holding Volunteer evenings, every Thursday at 6.30 at the Grove. 

We also have one of our regular Fix and Play Days on Saturday 30th June. 10 - 4 Lunch is provided.

Contact us at grovevolunteers@gmail.com
Grove is at 18 Gordon Grove, Brixton, London SE5 9DT


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## Gramsci (Jun 29, 2018)

THIS SAT 30th June 10-4 Big Summer Fix and Play Day at the Grove

All welcome to come along. To help or to have a look.


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## Gramsci (Jul 1, 2018)

Build Up | GROVE BUILD

This summer Grove Adventure Playground will be re-opening near you!

To kick start the opening of this great community space we will be designing and building a new outdoor kitchen.

If you’re aged 12-14 then join us on this project to develop new design skills as well as learning how to use hand and power tools. The whole project will be designed at built by you!

In the first week of summer holidays, 23rd-27th July, we will be designing and building the initial shelter structure that will form the new kitchen space, as well as constructing a new fire pit, for outdoor cooking. We will be working from 11am – 4pm.

We will close the week with an opening party on Friday 27th July and BBQ cooked on the new fire! All welcome!

( You can sign up online or contact:

martina@buildup.org.uk

or

grovevolunteers@gmail.com )


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## Gramsci (Jul 8, 2018)

Call Out for Volunteers across Brixton, help us get Grove Adventure Playground open this Summer

*We have a deadline to meet if the playground is to open on time, but there is a lot that still needs to be done.
We urgently need some painting, cleaning and other works done all around the site, (anyone can help).
We also need some specialist help in areas of Plumbing, Carpentry and Electrics.
 From this Monday, the playground will open every day* for volunteers to help from 10.00 - 12.00 and 17.00-19.00. 
* (If the playground is closed or you want to come at some other time, I am just 2 minutes from site)

Please come and help if you can and pass this to anyone who may be interested.
Contact me at any time, Nick 07914-258491, nalewis07@gmail.com*

If you would like to go on our mailing list or help us by donating please contact Leah,  grovevolunteers@gmail.com


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## Gramsci (Jul 16, 2018)

Working on the APG building this weekend. A lot has been done by the volunteers.


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## Gramsci (Jul 19, 2018)

The APG will open for Summer.

It will be open for 6 to 14 year olds from 23rd July to 31st August. 

 Hours are Monday to Friday 10.30 to 5.30. bring lunch.

( Hoping to get some food in the new fridge)

Please pass this on.

There will be trained youth worker on site at all times.

More info email

grovevolunteers@gmail.com


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## Gramsci (Jul 20, 2018)

Hi


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## Winot (Jul 20, 2018)

Well done Gramsci and bimble


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## bimble (Jul 20, 2018)

Winot i haven't done much lately but Gramsci's been a total star and there's a bunch of people been working their arses off for this.
Its looking great - made me so happy today, building now compliant with all safety regs and with a bit more cleaning ready to open its doors Monday 






editor any chance of a mention on buzz of what Gramsci posted up above re opening times this Summer?


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## bimble (Jul 27, 2018)

It’s going brilliant - full of children building painting running about, can’t put pics but total joy to see.


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## Gramsci (Aug 16, 2018)

Got this email today.


If anyone can help email grovevolunteers@gmail.com

Dear All,

I am writing to ask if any of you have a spare amp and speakers, or a pa of a decent quality, to use at The Grove Adventure Playground. We desperately want to have some music at the adventure playground, but have no funds to purchase at this time. This could be a loan or a gift.

Most of you will know about the project to re-open the adventure playground with volunteers and a lot of hard work in the last year and a bit, and the playground has been a big hit in the community since it re-opened in July, 3 years after Lambeth shut it down.

I attach our fledgling website which gives more details and an idea of what we are trying to maintain for the community, so if you were to have a stereo or anything else you would like to offer that could be used, please let me know.

www.grove-playground.org.uk

Also, please feel free to pass on the website on social media and if you were to hear of anyone wanting to hire an iconic and brilliant venue for an event or party, please let me know.


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## Gramsci (Aug 28, 2018)




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## Gramsci (Aug 30, 2018)

Meant to add. All welcome on Friday barbecue. It's from 12 to 5 .


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## TopCat (Aug 31, 2018)

Hugely proud of you lot for your effective efforts. Would take too long to express my admiration.


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## Gramsci (Aug 31, 2018)

50-year-old playground opens again – South London News


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## Gramsci (Sep 6, 2018)

Now Summer holidays have finished going to start opening on Saturday.


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## Gramsci (Sep 24, 2018)




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## Gramsci (Sep 24, 2018)




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## Gramsci (Sep 24, 2018)

Grove Adventure Playground for kids reopens thanks to the efforts of volunteers


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## Gramsci (Sep 27, 2018)




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## editor (Sep 28, 2018)

Buzzed: Film, DJs and live music at the Grove Adventure Playground fundraising benefit, 21st Oct 2018


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## Gramsci (Oct 3, 2018)

Grove Gala Benefit


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## Gramsci (Oct 3, 2018)

Grove Gala Benefit

Tickets


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## OvalhouseDB (Oct 30, 2018)

Way late to this, but just to say a big congratulations to everyone who worked so hard to put together a fantastic night for the Gala. I had visited the playground a few weeks earlier, and returned for the Gala. It was sold out, the film was fantastic and needs a wider audience. Great atmosphere, I loved the bonfire that kept everyone warm and social, good bar with some local beers, excellent food, and great performances from Potent Whisper and local youth ensemble The Youthsayers. Met so many local friends and work contacts down there and talked with  many new people. A good night out, and I hope much money was made.


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## Gramsci (Nov 5, 2018)

Report in Brixton Blog of the recent Gala event by one of the volunteers.

Gala weekend for Grove Adventure Playground


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## Gramsci (Dec 5, 2018)

This new document gives summary of recent use of the adventure playground. 

It was done as the adventure playground future is still under long term threat of redevelopment. The Council view was that the site was under used and that there was no demand for supervised adventure playground space. So this site is was available for redevelopment.


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## Gramsci (Dec 10, 2018)

The Drew Elves need your help!




The Drew Elves need your help!


Please donate what you can...
On Saturday 15th December we will be throwing the children of the Grove Adventure Playground a special festive party.
Our microsite is now open, and we have one week to collect all donations.
Click on the icons below to donate now!

Please consider donating what you can towards the cost of providing a Christmas meal for the children of the Grove?
Perhaps you can offer something to make the day even more special, from packets of mince pies to presents for the children? 
Or maybe you can even spare some Christmas decorations, colourful napkins or crackers?

If you prefer to donate physical gifts, contact team@drewlondon.co.uk and we will collect them directly.

Every single donation will mean the world to the children at the Grove, many of whom I’ve come to know personally through my volunteering each weekend.

I know from experience that putting a smile on their faces is one of the most rewarding things you can do, so I hope you’ll join me by giving what you can.
With thanks,
Elle


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## Winot (Dec 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> The Drew Elves need your help!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



done


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## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

Buzzed!  Grove Adventure Playground asks for donations for a kids’ festive party on Sat 15th Dec


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## Gramsci (Dec 12, 2018)

Winot said:


> done





Thanks. Much appreciated


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## Gramsci (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Buzzed!  Grove Adventure Playground asks for donations for a kids’ festive party on Sat 15th Dec


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## Gramsci (Dec 15, 2018)

Christmas tree up this morning. Thanks to generous donations presents for the young people.


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## Gramsci (Jan 25, 2019)

GROVE ADVENTURE PLAYGROUND. OUR 50TH YEAR


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## Gramsci (Jan 25, 2019)

View this email in your browser



*A Huge Thank You to Everyone for Your Help in 2019
We have been astounded by the success of the playground since opening in July 2018. We have over 230 families registered and 30-60 young people regularly attending our play schemes

We are back and preparing for the February Half Term Opening
We are running 2 Volunteer Days on Saturdays 9th and 16th of February 2019. 10-4. 
We need help with Gardening/Building/Clearing/Painting/Cleaning and the young people of Loughborough Junction would very much appreciate your help in getting the playground reopened. Lunch is Provided*
*



*
*February Half Term Opening Times are Mon 18th- Fri 22nd Feb 10-4
  We will providing a simple lunch*
*We need Volunteers at Grove to help with running our Saturday sessions*
*Also to help with Managing the Grove Adventure Playground.
If you are interested, please contact us on grovevolunteers@gmail.com*




*Football Coaching*
 Thank you FFEM @weareffem 
and Marcus Lipton Youth Centre
@MarcusLipton





*The Unity Cafe*
Designed and Built by the Young People
Thank you BuildUp @BuildUpFdn




*Fun at Grove Christmas Party 2018*
Thank you DREW @DrewLDN and their clients.


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## Gramsci (Feb 10, 2019)

The DIY day yesterday went well. 

Another one next Saturday.


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## Gramsci (Feb 10, 2019)

I was chatting to one of the parents yesterday. She told me that having the playground re opened has been invaluable to her. Gives her child somewhere to go on school holidays and on Saturdays.

Council still are not guaranteeing the future of the APG even though one of the main arguments they used against keeping it- that there is no demand for an APG in LJ- has been proven wrong.


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## Gramsci (Feb 14, 2019)

Grove Adventure Playground fights for its survival – open day coming up on Sat 16th Feb 2019

Article written by one of the volunteers.

This is important to know.




> However, despite the current success and positive work from LJAG and the volunteers to develop a sustainable model and business plan to keep the playground open, the future is uncertain as Grove Adventure Playground sits on council land that has been identified by Lambeth for possible future development “opportunities,” partly due to their assumption of a lack of demand for an adventure playground in Loughborough Junction.



Re opening the playground has provided evidence that there is a demand for the APG if its open regularly.

Particularly disheartening recently is that the Council are pushing ahead with idea of hiring a consultant to devise a "business plan" for the Marcus Lipton/ Grove APG and now Elam Open Space.

So Elam Open Space is now also a development opportunity.

The Council tried to get written into the Masterplan for Loughborough Junction that the Grove APG would go. This failed to get past the local community.

The ongoing argument with Council about results of the consultation meant that the LJ Masterplan was never finished. It was eventually proven that the consultation info was used was not a reflection of what was said by residents at the consultation meetings.

Now this is being re interpreted by Council officers as the LJ Masterplan being "paused". The hiring of a consultant to do a business plan will feed into the , what officers now refer to , "emerging" LJ Masterplan.

Part of the reason for persuading the Council to let us re open the adventure playground was to see if there is a demand.

The result. Yes there is.

Does the Council in that case support in a Cooperative Council fashion the the re opened playground?

No.


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## Gramsci (Jul 21, 2019)

Sorry haven't posted up much recently. Partly as negotiations about the site have been ongoing. 

After the recent murder at the Youth centre the community meeting was told plans for the APG site were shelved. 

Report from the public meeting on community safety in the Loughborough Junction area, Thurs 21st Mar 2019

The four main groups - LJAG, Marcus Lipton Youth Centre, Grove Adventure playground management committee and Loughborough Junction Neighborhood Planning forum wrote a joint letter to Council leader asking for clarification of what was promised at the meeting. 

Here is the letter. 

Im getting a bit concerned that what Cllr Jack Hopkins says is not being followed up. Recent events have made me concerned about whether the long term future of the site is going to be guaranteed.


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## Gramsci (Jul 21, 2019)

The letter is clear IMO. 

I really wish other Cllrs and officers would support it being implemented. As this is what the leader says.


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## TopCat (Jul 21, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> The letter is clear IMO.
> 
> I really wish other Cllrs and officers would support it being implemented. As this is what the leader says.


Good luck


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## Gramsci (Jul 25, 2019)

I'm getting a bit concerned that despite the Leaders letter promising to get officers to finish the masterplan and gaurentee the land the APG is on for Youth provision nothing is progressing. 

There are promises of meeting with Regen and planning so all sides can "lay their cards on the table"

Looks like the LJ Masterplan will not be finished.

At recent meeting it was pointed out that this was not the fault of the local community in LJ. Who took part , in good faith, the council run consultations on the masterplan.

The reason the masterplan was not finished was because once local community argued about the adventure playground Regen officers decided to stop any more work on masterplan as they weren't getting what they wanted. 

It was pointed out this is not the fault of the local community. 

More meetings are upcoming. 

If LJ Masterplan is not finished the alternative is to get gaurentee for future of the Grove APG / MLYC site in the revised Local Plan. Which is up for revision in next few months. 

Will see how that goes.


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## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2019)

Really good video featuring Grove APG.


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## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2019)

https://www.weareffem.com/






> FFEM is a wellness & leadership project that works with girls & women, predominantly from low income areas, who are at a higher risk of social & sporting exclusion.
> 
> FFEM uses the power of sport & education to build confidence, positive mental wellbeing, resilience & leadership skills in young girls, which we feel achieves our ultimate goal –
> 
> greater future aspirations.





> We at FFEM are committed to unify, inspire and create opportunities for females of all ages. FFEM focuses on using the power of sport and fitness to engage females and develop confidence and wellbeing. We are particularly focused on tackling the drop out in physical activitity for young girls during puberty.



I do maintenance etc at Grove , the backroom stuff,  and complaining to Council about lack of long term future for the land the adventure playground is on. So only seen them a few time myself. 

They have been coming to Grove APG and doing some good stuff with the children.


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## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2019)

The summer scheme at the Grove was a great success. More children this year. Did put a bit of a strain on the workers and volunteers who ran the Monday to Friday summer holiday scheme. Up to 70 children a day.

Shows the need for an APG in Loughborough Junction. That has the support of the Council. Rather than having to lobby all the time as well as trying to keep place going with no financial help from Council.

Still having "discussions" with senior officers about making sure that in the revised Local Plan- the planning document for Lambeth- that this land is for Youth provision.

Despite support from Leader I don't feel officers are falling over themselves to support this. That is planning and Regen.

The zoning of the one for Youth provision in the Local Plan would help protect it in the future .


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## editor (May 15, 2020)

Update: Grove Adventure Playground during lockdown – an inspiring film by Young Creators


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## editor (Jun 6, 2020)

Job offer: Job offer: Grove Adventure Playground in London SE5 is looking for a community fundraiser


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## editor (Sep 19, 2020)

Park update








						Grove Adventure Playground – news from the children’s space near Loughborough Junction, Sept 2020
					

The rather wonderful Grove Adventure Playground in Gordon Grove, SE5, has issued an update, which looks at what they’ve managed to achieve in the last year and talks about the challenges of s…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## bimble (Nov 9, 2020)

so confused what to feel about this look, a lovely little film of grove adventure playground but tweeted by the government, as part of their climbdown over school holiday meals. And after the council did their utmost to make sure the place would be turned into flats instead.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2020)

bimble said:


> so confused what to feel about this look, a lovely little film of grove adventure playground but tweeted by the government, as part of their climbdown over school holiday meals. And after the council did their utmost to make sure the place would be turned into flats instead.



Very well put - I used your words here if that's OK. 








						South London’s Grove Adventure Playground featured in government propaganda video
					

While Buzz is delighted to see the Grove Adventure Playground getting the national attention it deserves as they’re featured in a Department of Education film, we’re inclined to share t…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## critical1 (Nov 9, 2020)

The only issue here is that is not Grove adventure playground....
Isn't it obvious?


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## critical1 (Nov 9, 2020)

bimble said:


> so confused what to feel about this look, a lovely little film of grove adventure playground but tweeted by the government, as part of their climbdown over school holiday meals. And after the council did their utmost to make sure the place would be turned into flats instead.



The only issue here is that is not Grove adventure playground....
Isn't it obvious?


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## bimble (Nov 9, 2020)

critical1 said:


> The only issue here is that is not Grove adventure playground....
> Isn't it obvious?


Watch it again! It’s one of the two local places in the film. You’ll recognise it : )


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## editor (Nov 9, 2020)

bimble said:


> Watch it again! It’s one of the two local places in the film. You’ll recognise it : )


Can someone verify this? Is Grove featured at all?


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## bimble (Nov 9, 2020)

Yes! Ye of little faith. At very beginning of the video you can see the logo even, if you don't recognise the play area.


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## mafalda (Nov 9, 2020)

Both Grove Adventure Playground and Max Roach Adventure Playground were featured in the Food & Fun film. The programme was incredibly worthwhile and reached many children and their families in our shared community. 

The effort made by Marcus Rashford to help force yet another u-turn from Johnson's inept government is amazing, but even so the new money that is being fronted by the Government is still far too little and there are many thousands of children across the country who are in families experiencing food-poverty who don't even qualify for Free School Meals. 

We joined the Lambeth & Southwark Food & Fun scheme because we felt this was a way we could help. We received some funding to help deliver the programme of food, fun sports and other activities, and whilst this was inadequate to cover all of our delivery costs, it was important to help bring this scheme to one of the most deprived parts of the Capital.  

We wait to see how any new scheme will operate, but will also continue with our own home-grown efforts to provide food and other support to the community. 

The Food and Fun programme followed on from the emergency food distribution work that Grove Adventure Playground did during the initial lockdown - see link. 

In a similar vein, Grove Adventure Playground has recently launched its new *"Right to Play"* programme, a continuation of the Lambeth supported Summer "Stay & Play" scheme to provide play sessions for children and young people with Special Educational Needs and Disabilities. The funding for this scheme finished at the end of Summer, but once again we felt this was such important work that we now operate the newly renamed Right to Play scheme at our own cost and will continue to do so until we manage to get some funding to allow us to increase our capacity. 

Poverty, special needs, hunger and deprivation doesn't just occur during school holidays and there needs to be so much more opportunity, funding, support and available venues like Grove, all year around. 

Grove Adventure Playground re-opened in 2018 under threat off redevelopment and in the last 2+ years we have had a meaningful and positive impact in our community, with over 400 registrations from a standing start and a fantastic environment with some of the most challenging adventure play equipment in London for the local kids to enjoy supervised play, to explore the world around them and make new friends. We don't charge anything for access or activities and receive no direct funding from the Local Authority, but manage to provide a place of safety, excitement and empowerment for all of our children, we feed the kids, go on fantastic excursions and get stuck in with worthwhile local community projects in Loughborough Junction.  

Here's another film; our entry for the Adventure Playground of the Year from last year - somehow we didn't win! 

If anyone has any queries about Grove Adventure Playground - please email groveapg@gmail.com or even pop by any time during the week, especially if you have donations, books (for our community library), old kids bikes or any resources or ideas you think we could use. 

Nick Lewis
Manager, Grove Adventure Playground


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## Gramsci (Nov 9, 2020)

Part of keeping the Grove APG from threat of development is to make sure it is safeguarded in the updated Local Plan.

As those who have followed this thread know local residents had to argue with Council over the future of this land.

The Council insisting it was a development site and that there was no demand for an APG in the local area.

If the Council officers had there way then the land would have been permanently lost.

After much lobbying the Council allowed the APG to reopen. It has since proved very successful.

The  Council refused to put wording into the Local Plan to protect this specific site.

So its now going to the Planning Inspector. LJ Neighbourhood Forum have put in submission to the Planning Inspector to alter the Council draft revised Local Plan to protect the Grove APG land for Youth Provision ( also the adjacent Youth centre land)

Without this wording the officers could in theory revisit idea of treating this Council owned site as a development oppurtunity.

When a Local Plan is revised the draft goes to a Planning Inspector to whom business and residents groups can submit criticisms.

Previous to that the Council "consulted" on the Local Plan revision.

This argument with Council has been going on for years now.

A Planning Inspector has limited influence. He has to see if the Local Plan meets national guidelines and is "sound".

Hearing on local areas including LJ is coming up this Thursday.

Will be live streamed on Teams and recorded for later viewing.

I understand it will be so the Planning Inspector can get full information from those who put in submissions. Decision will come later.

Planning Inspector is independent of the Council









						Local Plan examination
					

The Draft Revised Lambeth Local Plan Proposed Submission Version January 2020 was submitted for examination on 22 May 2020.




					www.lambeth.gov.uk
				




Argument is the LJ will have increase in population due to recent planning applications being agreed and more in pipeline. Therefore infrastructure needs safeguarding to support increased population. Land for youth services is one.

IMO the Council should not treat land it owns as a cash cow.

Nor should residents imo have to spend time arguing with a Labour Council about something as basic as youth facilties.



..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

During this time of arguing with the Council about this site on and off for several years Ive felt it grind me down. The obfuscation and hostility from officers and some Cllrs.

Not one Labour Cllr supported the idea to keep the Grove APG when officers were saying it was a development site.

At best some other Labour Cllrs will listen. But when push comes to shove they have not supported the long term future of the land.


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## bimble (May 15, 2021)

Just saw that they have secured a new ten year lease from the council. 
Brilliant news.


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## editor (Aug 19, 2021)

Funding appeal launched - Grove Adventure Playground appeal for funds for new minibus – but time is running out


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## editor (Nov 15, 2021)

Please help if you can!








						Grove Adventure Playground launches their Christmas Present Appeal
					

The popular Grove Adventure Playground in Brixton has launched their annual Christmas present appeal, and they’re looking to get some support from the retail and business community at this ti…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com
				




(If anyone is in contact with the playground, could you tell them that their websites are no longer working)


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## Pickman's model (Nov 15, 2021)

editor said:


> Please help if you can!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


or you could try their facebook Grove Adventure Playground


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## editor (Nov 15, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> or you could try their facebook Grove Adventure Playground


Cheers - updated.


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## nonya (Nov 16, 2021)

CH1 said:


> I didn't attend any of those consultation meetings. Haven't check the dates, but they all had clashes for me. I wasn't formally boycotting or anything.
> 
> In any event it does seem more logical to me to repair and maintain the existing adventure playground and let the agrotherapists at LJAG continue their good work on Elam park space. Why ruin two good projects in order to shoehorn in yet more crappy undersized flats - affordable or otherwise?


Because the only way to solve the housing crisis is to make housing affordable at market rates and the only way to do that is to increase housing supply so that housing is an abundant good? 

The nimbyism in these threads is astonishing. Losing amenities sucks, but your right to a playground doesn't supercede the rights of an entire generation who've been locked out of housing altogether.


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## Gramsci (Nov 16, 2021)

nonya said:


> Because the only way to solve the housing crisis is to make housing affordable at market rates and the only way to do that is to increase housing supply so that housing is an abundant good?
> 
> The nimbyism in these threads is astonishing. Losing amenities sucks, but your right to a playground doesn't supercede the rights of an entire generation who've been locked out of housing altogether.



Why the only way? Main problem I hear about is high rents. Bringing back rent controls is different way to make housing affordable.

In fact a lot of high density housing is planned or going through the process of being planned in near future for LJ. With little play space for children.

This will lead to possible increase in population for Loughborough junction. With extra children growing up here

Btw I think their should be right to play space for younger people at adventure playground. It's important for social development of the next generation. Especially in a City. So this not nimbyism. It's all the more necessary in LJ with increasing population over next decade


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## nonya (Nov 16, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> Why the only way? Main problem I hear about is high rents. Bringing back rent controls is different way to make housing affordable.
> 
> In fact a lot of high density housing is planned or going through the process of being planned in near future for LJ. With little play space for children.
> 
> ...


Rent controls don't work - it becomes a lottery system for those few lucky enough to get it, meanwhile everybody else gets screwed. Rent controls also indirectly make it more expensive for literally everybody else in the area.

In a situation where there is abundant housing, rent controls are unnecessary. If there isn't enough housing to house everybody, then rent control is a lottery system that punishes everyone who doesn't win the lottery.

I don't have particular thoughts on this particular playground. What I would say is that if you (generically, not you specifically) find yourself opposing every new proposed housing development in your area (which seems the be the viewpoint of everybody on this forum), you are definitely a NIMBY and you are a part of the problem.


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## CH1 (Nov 16, 2021)

nonya said:


> Because the only way to solve the housing crisis is to make housing affordable at market rates and the only way to do that is to increase housing supply so that housing is an abundant good?
> 
> The nimbyism in these threads is astonishing. Losing amenities sucks, but your right to a playground doesn't supercede the rights of an entire generation who've been locked out of housing altogether.


I think you should watch Terry Gilliam's film "Brazil". This is what you are advocating for.
Unless of course you are a Tory Central Office bot - which it sounds like you are.


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## nonya (Nov 16, 2021)

CH1 said:


> I think you should watch Terry Gilliam's film "Brazil". This is what you are advocating for.
> Unless of course you are a Tory Central Office bot - which it sounds like you are.


No what I'm advocating for is more in line with what Singapore has - where housing is high density and affordable to regular Singaporeans. Granted there's a lot about that city that I don't like, but on housing policy they have nailed the balance.

Tory's are actually very much aligned with you actually - none of them want anything built anywhere near the places that they live either. Of course the ad hominem attacks come out when the nimbys are called out on their selfishness.

The older generation, even the lefty ones, invariably oppose things that would lower their property values or affect their views (even whilst talking about how its a damn shame housing has gotten so expensive).









						Public housing in Singapore - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				












						“But what about Singapore?” Lessons from the best public housing program in the world
					

Also available in: Mongolian | Chinese     As we approach the 9th World Urban Forum in Kuala Lumpur next week, one of the essential challenges in implementing the New Urban Agenda that governments are struggling with is the provision at scale of high quality affordable housing, a key part of ...




					blogs.worldbank.org
				












						How Singapore Got Public Housing Right - Affordable Housing Action
					

So how come public housing is such a perennial loser, reviled and disparaged by political parties of all stripes in some of the world’s more advanced nations? Its demise has been eulogized by world class think tanks that woefully explain why public housing is a poor way to create shelter for...




					affordablehousingaction.org


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## Gramsci (Nov 16, 2021)

nonya said:


> Rent controls don't work - it becomes a lottery system for those few lucky enough to get it, meanwhile everybody else gets screwed. Rent controls also indirectly make it more expensive for literally everybody else in the area.
> 
> In a situation where there is abundant housing, rent controls are unnecessary. If there isn't enough housing to house everybody, then rent control is a lottery system that punishes everyone who doesn't win the lottery.
> 
> I don't have particular thoughts on this particular playground. What I would say is that if you (generically, not you specifically) find yourself opposing every new proposed housing development in your area (which seems the be the viewpoint of everybody on this forum), you are definitely a NIMBY and you are a part of the problem.



If you have no particular thoughts on this playground why are you on this thread?

I've pointed out that there is extra housing in the pipeline for Loughborough junction area.

No I don't oppose every new housing development.

Your posting imo based on no local knowledge of this area and what it needs.

Are you really saying a successful well attended adventure playground that serves the needs of the local community should be closed and turned into housing?

So where are local children going to get play space?

I think you should look at the Local Plan for Lambeth.

Planning guidelines state the importance of Grove APG and Youth centre for the area.

You keep insinuating that posters here are nimbys.

Yet you appear to know little of this area or planning guidelines.


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## Gramsci (Nov 16, 2021)

nonya said:


> Rent controls don't work - it becomes a lottery system for those few lucky enough to get it, meanwhile everybody else gets screwed. Rent controls also indirectly make it more expensive for literally everybody else in the area.
> 
> In a situation where there is abundant housing, rent controls are unnecessary. If there isn't enough housing to house everybody, then rent control is a lottery system that punishes everyone who doesn't win the lottery.
> 
> I don't have particular thoughts on this particular playground. What I would say is that if you (generically, not you specifically) find yourself opposing every new proposed housing development in your area (which seems the be the viewpoint of everybody on this forum), you are definitely a NIMBY and you are a part of the problem.



Rent controls would apply to all private rented housing in an area. So don't see how its a lottery. Or how others get screwed.


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## CH1 (Nov 16, 2021)

nonya said:


> No what I'm advocating for is more in line with what Singapore has - where housing is high density and affordable to regular Singaporeans. Granted there's a lot about that city that I don't like, but on housing policy they have nailed the balance.
> 
> Tory's are actually very much aligned with you actually - none of them want anything built anywhere near the places that they live either. Of course the ad hominem attacks come out when the nimbys are called out on their selfishness.
> 
> ...


Are you one of those Singaporeans, reported to be subsidised public housing tenants (in Singapore), and who  buy flats in London to rent out as an investment?
We are given to understand that such investors are will only invest in flats - which is biasing what developers will produce - as much of the finance is raised "off plan" by their prospective buyers.

BTW lashing out at "nimbys" is also *ad hominem* 

I would go on - but as Gramsci points out this thread is dedicated to the Grove Adventure Playground.


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## nonya (Nov 17, 2021)

Gramsci said:


> If you have no particular thoughts on this playground why are you on this thread?
> 
> I've pointed out that there is extra housing in the pipeline for Loughborough junction area.
> 
> ...


I was reading about the happenings in the local area and responded to someone who said "Why ruin two good projects in order to shoehorn in yet more crappy undersized flats - affordable or otherwise?" when my literal dream is to be able to afford one of those "crappy undersized flats".

If you think young people wouldn't take an affordable "crappy undersized flat" in a heartbeat, you have no understanding of how my generation has been screwed over. You talk about where the kids will play, what about the right of my kid to have a place to live?



Gramsci said:


> Rent controls would apply to all private rented housing in an area. So don't see how its a lottery. Or how others get screwed.



Rent control doesn't work. It privileges existing renters and punishes new renters.

I quote

"A recent paper examining rent control in San Francisco found that, when strict rent control was implemented in 1994, existing renters saved $2.9 billion on rent in the following sixteen years. However, renters who moved to San Francisco after rent controls were introduced paid an extra $2.9 billion in rent over the same period – exactly the same as existing tenants saved.

*This shows how rent control doesn’t help all renters, but only a few.* Tenants who are lucky enough to already live in housing that suits their needs benefit greatly from rent control. But those who will want to move for more space, young people who want their own place in the city, and migrants moving to London for the first time all lose out as landlords look to recoup their losses through new tenants, as they did in San Francisco."









						Self Control: Why London must resist the temptation to introduce rent control - Centre for Cities
					

The private rented sector needs reform, but history, and economics tell us that rent controls do not work




					www.centreforcities.org
				




Rent control is one of those nice sounding solutions that unfortunately doesn't work - its merely a wealth transfer from younger generations to old generations. At the end of the day, if there are only 5 houses and 10 people who want to live in them, it doesn't matter how much you control rent, 5 people are going to be screwed. You need to build 5 new houses so those 5 people who are left out have a place to live.


CH1 said:


> Are you one of those Singaporeans, reported to be subsidised public housing tenants (in Singapore), and who  buy flats in London to rent out as an investment?
> We are given to understand that such investors are will only invest in flats - which is biasing what developers will produce - as much of the finance is raised "off plan" by their prospective buyers.
> 
> BTW lashing out at "nimbys" is also *ad hominem*
> ...


I am not "one of those Singaporeans", but it sounds like you think there something wrong with being Singaporean..?

I don't own, I rent, and it costs me an arm and a leg.

I do support some kind of absurdly high tax on foreign investors buying property as well as second homes.

Lashing out at NIMBYs for the harm they cause is not an ad hominem, there is plenty of evidence to demonstrate the very real harm they have done.

Besides, you would only be insulted if you see yourself as a NIMBY - someone who inevitably says "NO NO NO" to the building of new housing. Does that describe you?

I will leave this thread now to argue with you all in the other one.


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## CH1 (Nov 17, 2021)

nonya I am not insulted by being called a nimby. In fact I am not a nimby - if by this you mean "Not In My Back Yard"
Actually I don't think you know what a NIMBY is. You are simply seeking to introduce a perverse form of culture wars into the issue.

You have had a final go (you say) - take this from me China has at least 65 million empty homes — enough to house the population of France. It offers a glimpse into the country's massive housing-market problem.

A most intriguing article which demonstrates that even Communist China is failing its population by building enormous concrete cities - many of which stand empty whilst their builders are going bust.

Hope you don't have shares in Evergrande!

I guess you will be spending all the hours God sends in the next council election rubbishing the Green Party?


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## nonya (Nov 17, 2021)

CH1 said:


> nonya I am not insulted by being called a nimby. In fact I am not a nimby - if by this you mean "Not In My Back Yard"
> Actually I don't think you know what a NIMBY is. You are simply seeking to introduce a perverse form of culture wars into the issue.
> 
> You have had a final go (you say) - take this from me China has at least 65 million empty homes — enough to house the population of France. It offers a glimpse into the country's massive housing-market problem.
> ...



I don't own shares at all, what a strange non sequitur.

I will refrain from commenting on the China stuff you mentioned because I promised to stop going on in this thread in favor of the other.

But since you directly asked me a question, I'm a two issue voter, my first priority is climate change, my second priority is housing abundance. So we'll see who convinces me based on those two issues. It's up for grabs, since there is no single party that represents my views. I am open to being convinced.


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## editor (Dec 1, 2021)

Update Help the Grove Adventure Playground by donating during the Big Give Christmas Challenge


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## Gramsci (May 21, 2022)




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