# BBC 6music faces closure in BBC shake-up



## Pie 1 (Feb 26, 2010)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/feb/26/bbc-media-radio-internet-website

It's still 'speculation' but 6 Music and others may be on the chopping block. 

If this is true, then it's just to depressing for words.

I mean seriously,  isn't 6 music a shining fucking beacon of the sort of quality he's banging on about needing to focus on in the report?

Please, for the love of god, don't do this Thompson. 
Man up, FFS!


E2A: Mods, my title was a little to quick off the mark -  maybe add "BBC Cutbacks" or something - cheers


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## Divisive Cotton (Feb 26, 2010)

I can't understand what the thinking is here.

Actually, I hardly ever listen to 6 Music it's just so conservative and bland (for me!), but no commercial radio station can sustain an alternative output. Many have tried and failed over the last 15 years and then reverted to a mainstream play list.


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## Badgers (Feb 26, 2010)

This will be a real shame but heard this news a while ago. I like the station but if I am honest I hardly listen to it.


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## kabbes (Feb 26, 2010)

Seems appalling timing to be getting rid of digital music stations just on the cusp of the time that they might actually become popular and viable.


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## Scaggs (Feb 26, 2010)

It would be a shame if 6 Music got the chop. Don't listen that much but Marc Riley would be missed in our house. I'd rather they dump bbc 3 tv if they have to make cutbacks. There's nothing on there that commercial channels don't do.


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## London_Calling (Feb 26, 2010)

The games afoot . . . you can outline now how this will unfold over then the next 4-6 weeks.

Early repositioning from Thompson; 'quality over quantity' message will be well received by Tory voters and quite likely the Tory minority Gov. 6 Music and Asian Network are more New Labour friendly. Timescale gives the public time to campaign for the stations to be saved, which will be done if a miracle occurs and Labour win, etc, etc. _Real politik_ from yer senior management in the weeks before a General Election.


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## beeboo (Feb 26, 2010)

*BBC 6music to close*

Can't find a link but reporting on radio 4 this morning that, as feared, 6music is to get the chop.

It's the only music station I listen to, gutted


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 26, 2010)

Fuck


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## paolo (Feb 26, 2010)

beeboo said:


> Can't find a link but reporting on radio 4 this morning that, as feared, 6music is to get the chop.
> 
> It's the only music station I listen to, gutted



Same.

I listen to it continuously.

At the risk of sounding a bit shit "faceboook"... I think there'll be a big reaction to this.


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## beeboo (Feb 26, 2010)

Aye.  Evidently their listenership isn't huge, but I reckon those they have are loyal.

They were quoting some figures that the vast majority of the population had never heard of it.  Which isn't a question of the quality of the output, it's publicity.  I guess digital still hasn't got the critical mass yet.


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## belboid (Feb 26, 2010)

Beeb havent confirmed it ey, but sounds likely.  Pisser that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8538130.stm


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## trashpony (Feb 26, 2010)

This really sucks. Why don't they ditch some of their stupid regional channels that no one listens to and cater for those of us who have decent taste in music - where are we supposed to go? 

I have just found a review of 6 Music published on 15 Feb by the BBC Trust:


> The review found that, like Radio 2, the majority of 6 Music listeners thought the station was distinctive with 82 per cent believing that it offered something that could not be found elsewhere. It found that over the last four years the station's reach had grown faster than any other BBC digital radio-only service but this growth had been from a low base. This meant that the station was still only reaching one per cent of the adult population, and this was compounded by low awareness, with just 20 per cent of the adult population aware that the station existed.
> 
> The review concluded that:
> 
> ...



So nothing about shutting it down. So why the fuck are they doing it??


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## Sadken (Feb 26, 2010)

Adam & NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## beeboo (Feb 26, 2010)

Bizarre that it was reported on R4 this morning and yet BBC aren't confirming it.


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## trashpony (Feb 26, 2010)

beeboo said:


> Bizarre that it was reported on R4 this morning and yet BBC aren't confirming it.



It's really odd. I thought they were supposed to do what the Trust recommended anyway, not blatantly disregard them


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## paolo (Feb 26, 2010)

#saveBBC6Music now trending top 10 globally.

Emily Eavis and others retweeting.


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## editor (Feb 26, 2010)

Reported on the Guardian:


> The BBC plans to axe two radio *stations – 6  Music and Asian Network – cut spending on imported shows and halve the  size of its website, it is claimed today. The Times says the measures are part of the BBC's strategic  review to be unveiled next month. Under the plan, the BBC intends to  shrink overall services and focus more on quality over quantity. There  have already been reports suggesting that the BBC will axe the digital radio  stations 6 Music and Asian Network.
> Quoting BBC Trust sources,  the newspaper states that the BBC director general, Mark Thompson, is also being pushed  to slash the budget for imported shows such as Mad Men and Heroes by a  third.
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/feb/26/bbc-media-radio-internet-website


I wished they just left BBC GLR it as it was - which was basically like BBC6 now with less pointless populist DJ blather.

BBC6 was supposed to be all about the music but the likes of Lauren Laverne are rapidly turning it into Radio One Lite with inane chat and endless requests to Twitter and email pointless drivel in.

(*threads merged)


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## Idaho (Feb 26, 2010)

What about Asian Network and 1 Extra? Both of which are far lower quality in terms of djs and production.

Oh... just read above.

Tbh - as long as Marc Riley keeps his show I can probably cope without the rest.


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## fen_boy (Feb 26, 2010)

I like Lauren Laverne.


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## fen_boy (Feb 26, 2010)

Stuart Marconie's Freakzone is excellent as is Gideon Coe and, of course, Adam and Joe.


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## matt m (Feb 26, 2010)

It's funny how, with the bank bailouts, it's seen by both government and opposition as almost a crime - something to be ashamed about - for a private bank to end up nationalised.

Yet it would never, in a million years, be considered appropriate for the BBC to sell 6Music, let it become a commercial station. Which would mean ads and redundancies, yes, but ads aren't the end of the world, and redundancies would be considerably fewer than axeing the whole station would. Therefore saving the BBC and, therefore, the taxpayer, a hell of a lot of money.

And it would mean that an established service, demonstrably valued and wanted by thousands of people, would not simply go to waste. 

Around the time GLR became the shitty tabloid talk-radio waste of bandwidth it is now, Alan McGee made a semi-serious public offer to take it on and run it as a commercial station, as he was a big fan and rightly believed it to be the best music radio out there. Never would have happened, but would have been great.


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## g force (Feb 26, 2010)

It's a great satation but as Ed mentions there's a worrying trend towards the same old DJs re-appearing like Laverne who just have inane banter. Less of her, more Cerys!


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## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2010)

I've aways found it banal and dull.


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## paolo (Feb 26, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I like Lauren Laverne.



Yep, she does a good show.

As does Cerys Mathews, Stuart Maconie, almost all of them.

Gideon Coe managed a shout out to our broken-kneed forum-mate a little while back.

Can't see any of them, or any of that, on R1. Or your local - "020 7408 8767 For The Best Insurance deals" station. "That's 020 7408...." etc etc.


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## fen_boy (Feb 26, 2010)

Jarvis Cocker is great as well.


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## wiskey (Feb 26, 2010)

I like the Asian Network sometimes for a change


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## DotCommunist (Feb 26, 2010)

why can't they get rid of something shit, like jeremy vine.


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## paolo (Feb 26, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Jarvis Cocker is great as well.



Tom Robinson's new music slot.
Guy Garvey's cozy little Sunday wind up.
The documentaries... I was fascinated by the ones talking about being a teenager in the fifties... All the stuff my parents daren't tell me. 

Yep, there'll be home for all of that on - "Cash in your gold? Yes! 020 9567 9808 Cash in your Gold! Gold Direct. That's 020 9567 9808. Cash in your Gold! 020 9567 9808" - commercial radio.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 26, 2010)

matt m said:


> ads aren't the end of the world



Yes they fucking are.


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## stethoscope (Feb 26, 2010)

Noooooooo! 

I've just sent a complaint to Mark Thompson and Tim Davie, for what good it will probably do but at least makes me feel like I'm airing my views.

Why not axe the ever-bloating number of highly paid chat and 'light entertainment' show presenters, or some of the reality-style crap on BBC3, but not 6Music or anything that's actually fulfilling what I always felt the BBC was for - being able to produce something of quality and alternative than the inane shit that commercial telly and radio churns out?

I agree with Ed over the constant changes to 6Music recently which has made it partly 'Radio 1 lite' - and agree with how the BBC butchered GLR/BBC London to the point where its music and alternative radio output is very watered down these days


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## matt m (Feb 26, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yes they fucking are.



Put it this way, I listen to Spotify all the time at work and while the ads are fucking annoying, er, I listen to Spotify all the time at work. You presumably watch a fair few TV channels that have ads in them.

Obviously this is all academic anyway, as the BBC are axeing 6Music and there's no way in hell they'd ever contemplate something as radical as putting an established service they've created onto the free market (despite the fact that the BBC already has its own commercial wing, in the form of BBC Worldwide.)


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 26, 2010)

matt m said:


> Put it this way, I listen to Spotify all the time at work and while the ads are fucking annoying, er, I listen to Spotify all the time at work



It's not about ads being a nuisance, its about the fundamental way they change a broadcasters remit.


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## Idaho (Feb 26, 2010)

matt m said:


> Put it this way, I listen to Spotify all the time at work and while the ads are fucking annoying, er, I listen to Spotify all the time at work. You presumably watch a fair few TV channels that have ads in them.
> 
> Obviously this is all academic anyway, as the BBC are axeing 6Music and there's no way in hell they'd ever contemplate something as radical as putting an established service they've created onto the free market (despite the fact that the BBC already has its own commercial wing, in the form of BBC Worldwide.)



If you think that that 6 music would move to the commercial sector and be the same but with a few annoying adverts every 15 minutes then you are very niaive. Commercial radio has to maximise audience numbers and advertiser participation. It would be like Xfm within 3 months.


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## Divisive Cotton (Feb 26, 2010)

I was gonna write that. If they sold BBC6 it would change beyond all recognition and just be another Virgin-type station


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## paolo (Feb 26, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's not about ads being a nuisance, its about the fundamental way they change a broadcasters remit.



Quite.

Spotify/Virgin/etc won't bring you new insights, interviews, unsigned bands, sharp spotlights on times past.


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## matt m (Feb 26, 2010)

Divisive Cotton said:


> I was gonna write that. If they sold BBC6 it would change beyond all recognition and just be another Virgin-type station



In all likelihood. But we'll never know, will we. From what I have seen (which is admittedly not much) of the inner workings of radio stations - publicly funded or commerical - they tend to piss money up the wall. 

I am many things, but one thing I don't think I have ever been, at any point in my life, is naive. If anything, I think I'm probably a bit of a cynical cunt.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 26, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Quite.
> 
> Spotify/Virgin/etc won't bring you new insights, interviews, unsigned bands, sharp spotlights on times past.



this is the thing, six music employs musicians and people who are properly into music. The likes of virgin just have ageing crapulous DJ's and the odd comedian.

No mor Adam and Joe


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm not much of a fan of 6music to be honest, but I must say I can't remember having heard Public Enemy on a commercial station at 11.13am recently.


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## editor (Feb 26, 2010)

matt m said:


> Yet it would never, in a million years, be considered appropriate for the BBC to sell 6Music, let it become a commercial station. Which would mean ads and redundancies, yes, but ads aren't the end of the world, and redundancies would be considerably fewer than axeing the whole station would. Therefore saving the BBC and, therefore, the taxpayer, a hell of a lot of money.


. If it was funded by adverts it would come under all sorts of pressure, and I'd be turning it straight off, thanks. I pay my licence fee not to have some inane voiceover trying to flog me shit every 15 minutes and having shows "brought to you in association with..."


paolo999 said:


> As does Cerys Mathews, Stuart Maconie, almost all of them.
> Gideon Coe managed a shout out to our broken-kneed forum-mate a little while back.


Cerys was the best DJ they've had for ages: enthusiastic, clearly a massive fan of music, and not interested in pointless blather or endlessly imploring people to Twitter some cack in.


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## Diamond (Feb 26, 2010)

I'd be pissed off it went but, thinking about it, I realised that it's the better part of a year since I actually listened to it.

I wonder if it's the kind of thing that people think they really like and think is really important but when it actually comes down to it is not really listened to that much.


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## tbaldwin (Feb 26, 2010)

stephj said:


> Noooooooo!
> 
> I've just sent a complaint to Mark Thompson and Tim Davie, for what good it will probably do but at least makes me feel like I'm airing my views.
> 
> ...



Yes.
BBC pay out huge sums to some of the crap stars and executives 6 isnt always great but its the station i listen to most.


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## stethoscope (Feb 26, 2010)

Diamond said:


> I'd be pissed off it went but, thinking about it, I realised that it's the better part of a year since I actually listened to it.
> 
> I wonder if it's the kind of thing that people think they really like and think is really important but when it actually comes down to it is not really listened to that much.




There's very few radio stations where I can actually listen throughout most of the day and there's always something that keeps me interested.. especially Sunday: Jon Richardson, Huey, Jarvis Cocker's Sunday Service, Freak Zone, Dave Pearce, Guy Garvey's Finest Hour, rounded off with Don Letts. Saturday used to be much the same although Richard Bacon's a big turn-off. I used to like waking up to Iyare too - he wasn't perfect but preferable to Lamb!

Most of my other radio listening tends to be dipping in and out of certain shows only, whether it be Colourful, Jazz FM, BBC London or pirates.


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## matt m (Feb 26, 2010)

editor said:


> . If it was funded by adverts it would come under all sorts of pressure, and I'd be turning it straight off, thanks. I pay my licence fee not to have some inane voiceover trying to flog me shit every 15 minutes and having shows "brought to you in association with..."



I wasn't suggesting the BBC should start having ads. I'm suggesting that it's a massive waste of your money to close two radio stations, and that selling them is the lesser evil. 

I don't think it has ever happened with radio, so I agree it's very _unlikely_ that a company could run a station like 6Music commercially and keep it afloat. All I am saying is it is not _unfeasible_. 

The Wire magazine used to be owned by Quartet books. When Quartet decided to sell it, its staff took it over. It's independantly owned. It features adverts. It doesn't compromise. It's doing alright.

The closest you'd come in radioland is Resonance FM, who now receive bugger all Arts Council funding, have no ads, and get by on a hand-to-mouth basis via perpetual fundfraising gigs etc. Other radio stations literally do not believe the pitiful amount of money Resonance FM gets by on.

If the right person/business bought a radio station like 6Music, it is not _inconceivable_, _wholly impossible_ that it could be a commercial success without changing its schedule and vibe. 

It happens in other media. It doesn't tend to happen in radio, because the running costs are huge, but also because people piss money up the wall. I believe the very fact that it happens in all sorts of other media, and never happens in radio, is evidence that something is seriously wrong with the people that manage radio stations.


Again, this is all pie-in-the-sky discussion, as things simply don't work that way in the UK. But I reckon, someone like Alan McGee (not that I have any particular respect for the man, let alone his taste in music) could probably run a station like 6Music commercially.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2010)

The only music station I listen to these days is Radio 3.  That limits the range of music I hear via radio (which for decades used to be the main way I heard new music), but at least it's intelligent.  I'd be upset if they axed Radio3.


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## paolo (Feb 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> this is the thing, six music employs musicians and people who are properly into music.



They're fucking ace. Really informative DJs who have a genuine interest. And when they don't know something, they're just like us and wide-eyed, not some bullshitting nob.

A few months ago Cerys went into an old studio and it was fascinating. She was awestruck by what she was messing with, and not faking it or reaching for frigging "jingles".

Even the news on R6 is OK.


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## stethoscope (Feb 26, 2010)

matt m said:


> The closest you'd come in radioland is Resonance FM, who now receive bugger all Arts Council funding, have no ads, and get by on a hand-to-mouth basis via perpetual fundfraising gigs etc.
> 
> ...
> 
> Other radio stations literally do not believe the amount of money Resonance FM gets by on.



It would be nice if Resonance could get on DAB (if even only in London). Their FM signal can be a bit weak.


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## stethoscope (Feb 26, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> The only music station I listen to these days is Radio 3.  That limits the range of music I hear via radio (which for decades used to be the main way I heard new music), but at least it's intelligent.  I'd be upset if they axed Radio3.



They'd never axe Radio 3 - classical music is dreadful on Classic FM, and their audience demographic would never allow it to happen. Bit gutted that R3 cut a lot of its jazz and world music output a while back.


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## Lord Camomile (Feb 26, 2010)

This is seriously fucking shit  It's by far my most listened to music station (most listened to overall is a three-way fight between Radio 4, 5Live and the World Service ). Adam & Joe will likely find a new home but I also really enjoy Guy Garvey, and Jarvis Cocker's new show is already sounding really good. Maybe they'll get some more graveyard slots like God's Jukebox on Radio 2.

Bloody, bloody hell


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## editor (Feb 26, 2010)

If only the BBC had stuck with GLR instead of pointlessly pissing about with a winning formula.


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## stethoscope (Feb 26, 2010)

(((GLR RIP 2000)))

(((6Music RIP 2010?)))


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## paolo (Feb 26, 2010)

editor said:


> If only the BBC had stuck with GLR instead of pointlessly pissing about with a winning formula.



Was GLR national?


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## ExtraRefined (Feb 26, 2010)

matt m said:


> I wasn't suggesting the BBC should start having ads. I'm suggesting that it's a massive waste of your money to close two radio stations, and that selling them is the lesser evil.
> 
> I don't think it has ever happened with radio, so I agree it's very _unlikely_ that a company could run a station like 6Music commercially and keep it afloat. All I am saying is it is not _unfeasible_.



Perhaps it could be funded by donation? Surely with all of it's hardcore fans this would be easy enough. Right?


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## fen_boy (Feb 26, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Was GLR national?



No it wasn't.


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 26, 2010)

I'll repeat what I said on the other thread:

I'm against the axeing of 6 Music, but the station needs a proper overhaul in the daytime. They can start with losing Nemone, Lamacq and Laverne for starters. They can also stop playlisting everything to hell and limiting the amount of times a song can be played in a day. I mean how many times do I need to hear Gorillaz - 'Stylo' before getting so totally bored with it, I don't want to ever listen to it again.

Why not make the most of the BBC's immense archive and (as with Radio 7) dig out some old Peel shows, festive fifties, evening sessions, etc. Then let's start diversifying the playlist with more dance, metal, pop, punk and rap. Peel style. Let's hear some old jazz classics, and then some happy hardcore, then some old Gorky's Zygotic Mynci track for no other reason than we haven't heard it in ages, rather than the result of some plugger's wet dream to have Bombay Bicycle Club played over and over and over until they're hyped beyond all perspective. Christ, being back the old days of XFM (or NME radio - at least until recently they were much better than 6 Music). In fact I've found the best alternative to be outside the UK, stations like TripleJ in Australia are much more interesting than listening to bloody Nemone on a wet Wednesday.


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## paolo (Feb 26, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'll repeat what I said on the other thread:
> 
> I'm against the axeing of 6 Music, but the station needs a proper overhaul in the daytime. They can start with losing Nemone, Lamacq and Laverne for starters. They can also stop playlisting everything to hell and limiting the amount of times a song can be played in a day. I mean how many times do I need to hear Gorillaz - 'Stylo' before getting so totally bored with it, I don't want to ever listen to it again.
> 
> Why not make the most of the BBC's immense archive and (as with Radio 7) dig out some old Peel shows, festive fifties, evening sessions, etc. Then let's start diversifying the playlist with more dance, metal, pop, punk and rap. Peel style. Let's hear some old jazz classics, and then some happy hardcore, then some old Gorky's Zygotic Mynci track for no other reason than we haven't heard it in ages, rather than the result of some plugger's wet dream to have Bombay Bicycle Club played over and over and over until they're hyped beyond all perspective. Christ, being back the old days of XFM (or NME radio - at least until recently they were much better than 6 Music). In fact I've found the best alternative to be outside the UK, stations like TripleJ in Australia are much more interesting than listening to bloody Nemone on a wet Wednesday.



Which might be valid, but it's a more brutal decision time.

Commercial radio, chasing the numbers? Or Beeb's chouce of DJs?


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 26, 2010)

If cuts need to be made, cut 1Xtra. Its totally wack.


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## Idaho (Feb 26, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> If cuts need to be made, cut 1Xtra. Its totally wack.



Yeah it is pretty poor - and probably a better commercial prospect than 6 music.


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## tbaldwin (Feb 26, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> If cuts need to be made, cut 1Xtra. Its totally wack.



They should be cutting the salaries of overpaid bosses and stars not jobs and services.


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## tarannau (Feb 26, 2010)

1XTra's alright to be fair, a better breeding ground for younger talent than the others.

I realise that may not be popular with the more genteel middle classers on u75, but there's far better justification to keep hold of 1xtra than 6music imo. Not that I want to lose 6, but 1Xtra's arguably one of the Beeb's success stories.


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## Bakunin (Feb 26, 2010)

trashpony said:


> This really sucks. Why don't they ditch some of their stupid regional channels that no one listens to and cater for those of us who have decent taste in music - where are we supposed to go?



Those of us with a decent taste in music (classic rock, naturally) are already amply served by Planet Rock, I think you'll find.

Those Godless heathens who insist on denying rock its place as the serious, valid, culturally significant and valuable art form that it really is will have to go elsewhere for their listening pleasure, methinks.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 26, 2010)

Planet Rock might as well rename themselves DadRock.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> 1XTra's alright to be fair, a better breeding ground for younger talent than the others.
> 
> I realise that may not be popular with the more genteel middle classers on u75, but there's far better justification to keep hold of 1xtra than 6music imo. Not that I want to lose 6, but 1Xtra's arguably one of the Beeb's success stories.


What is this 1Xtra of which you speak?


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## DotCommunist (Feb 26, 2010)

It is Tim Westwoods spiritual home.


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## tarannau (Feb 26, 2010)

Nah, Westwood's too old a dawg for the Xtra.  They've even got real black people on 1Xtra and everything.


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## Bakunin (Feb 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Planet Rock might as well rename themselves DadRock.



I shall pardon your heresy on this occasion, you youthful scamp, if only because of your seeming ignorance of the immense contribution that said artistes have made to popular culture since the heady days of the 1960's.

But any more of this foolishness and I shall descend upon thee, Led Zeppelin albums in hand, and forcibly edumacate you as to the awesome significance of classic rock (and, by default, classic rockers themselves) with regard to the guitar-led music of today.

Even if rock's current hellraisers aren't a patch on their predecessors.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> It is Tim Westwoods spiritual home.


He's old.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Nah, Westwood's too old a dawg for the Xtra.  They've even got real black people on 1Xtra and everything.



The Big Dog can be found dropping the bomb between 4 an 7 pm weekdays on 1xtra


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Nah, Westwood's too old a dawg for the Xtra.  They've even got real black people on 1Xtra and everything.



*goes to check who's on 1Xtra right now*


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## tarannau (Feb 26, 2010)

Tells you how often I get a chance to listen to radio between 4 and 7 then. Doh


That said, Westwood was the pretty much the only hip hop voice on National radio for years. Even now R1 remains hugely loyal to the old guard of 'specialist' DJs rather than encouraging new faces. For all 1Xtra's flaws, it did bring a lot more youthful and representative voices in.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Even now R1 remains hugely loyal to the old guard of 'specialist' DJs



Pete Tong
Annie Nightingale
Tim Westwood

are the only ones I can think of.


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## editor (Feb 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Not that I want to lose 6, but 1Xtra's arguably one of the Beeb's success stories.


Actually, it's far less successful than BBC and is losing listeners.



> During the period BBC6 Music, home to Shaun Keaveny, Lauren Laverne and George Lamb, had 695,000 listeners, up 11.4% on the previous quarter and 12.3% year on year, according to the latest official Rajar audience figures....
> 
> BBC 1Xtra fell marginally – 2.9% on the previous quarter and 0.4% year on year – to 531,000.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/feb/04/rajars-jazz-fm-6music-radio-7


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## tarannau (Feb 26, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Pete Tong
> Annie Nightingale
> Tim Westwood
> 
> are the only ones I can think of.



Er Fabio and Grooverider, Gilles Peterson, Judge Jules, Rob Da Bank, even Nihal isn't exactly the freshest thing in the Asian music scene.

It's not that I don't like those guys, but there's plenty of younger talent queuing up behind them. 1Xtra at least helped to shake things up a little nationally and mean that more than a couple of older heads tended to represent more specialised genres. That was its success for me and a good reason for its continued positioning.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Er Fabio and Grooverider, Gilles Peterson, Judge Jules



Ah, I didn't realise these guys were still on...


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## tarannau (Feb 26, 2010)

They're kind of ageless. Strip away their R1 residencies years ago and it's hard to see how they'd have maintained their same profiles.


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## mincepie (Feb 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The Big Dog can be found dropping the bomb between 4 an 7 pm weekdays on 1xtra





As Editor and indeed Westwood himself pointed out, he's 'droppping da bomb' - but no ones listening - He was on Scott Mills's show (R1) the other day when the RAJAR (audience) figures came out  saying something like  "I feel as if i've been talking to my self for the last 6 months" 

I think 6Music is safe - The Asian Network  however - I belive that if you consider pound spent per listener it does very very badly.


In many ways the BBC stations are amazinnnnnnnnggg compared to most bland dull safe commercial output. I guess what's happened is that socially the world has changed, most people listen to iPods etc, and the take up of DAB by the car makers has been very slow/none...with the car being one area where a lot of people do listen to the radio.


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> 1XTra's alright to be fair, a better breeding ground for younger talent than the others.



At least 1xtra sounds closer to how Kiss should (and used to) sound. It's not, IMO, as good as it was though for the first couple of years - I was really disappointed when it culled a lot of the D'n'B output a few years ago including DJ Flight who I thought was a real future talent in the making, and I really miss the Basement show on Sundays which used to be unmissable.

It does seem to be more and more show-sharing/simulcasting with Radio 1 also now which is annoying too rather than doing 'its own thing'.

Still look forward to Ras Kwame though, and of course Trevor Nelson and old BBC London stalwarts Rampage! If only they could get Norman Jay on there too, but I fear after his treatment by the BBC its unlikely now


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 26, 2010)

fuck's sake, Judge Jules is still on the radio? 

I've changed my mind, shut down the BBC.


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 26, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> fuck's sake, Judge Jules is still on the radio?
> 
> I've changed my mind, shut down the BBC.





Judge used to be great in the early days of Kiss when he used to play a mix of house, soul and rare groove, but I never could get into that trance sound he's been bashing for the last 10 years or so.


----------



## dlx1 (Feb 27, 2010)

no been back to 6music since the presenter was change on Dream Ticket. It used to be a 40 minutes set then it was chopped up. 

This probably back in 07 I think.

Found post 10-11-2005


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 27, 2010)

Phill Jupitus' take in today's G...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/feb/26/bbc-6-music-licence-payers


----------



## Idaho (Feb 28, 2010)

It does seem that all this BBC stuff is first bit of election politics.

The Tories know that if they take Murdoch's side against the BBC and the licence fee, they will get his support for the election. Labour can't take Murdoch head on so they will be keen for the BBC to publicly slash costs. The BBC are trying to beat them all to the punch by making these unclear leaks.

The fact that online content is being marked for cutbacks is interesting. Especially as it coincides neatly with Murdoch moving his stuff to fee paying.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 28, 2010)

BBC News is not going to go from the website, though, and that's what the Murdoch properties want to charge for.


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 28, 2010)

This whole thing just smells of Murdoch...

It didn't take long for the Times to start extolling the virtues of a commercial radio operator buying 6Music:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article7042533.ece

Having listened to a bit of Absolute last night, the same 4 or 5 nauseating adverts on rotation after just 2-3 songs soon had me switching off.


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 28, 2010)

It's about re-positioning in view of the imminent General Election  and poll trends. If Thompson is going to start being more shrewd it's about time. As long as he gets it right - this doesn't seem a bad start.


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 28, 2010)

By privatising 6Music into just another shitty XFM/Absolute clone?


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 28, 2010)

By allowing "sources"  to leak bogus choices and generally raise false flags 6-8 weeks before an election. It's a game, check it out.


----------



## Pie 1 (Feb 28, 2010)

stephj said:


> Phill Jupitus' take in today's G...
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/feb/26/bbc-6-music-licence-payers





> One of the most positive and surprising reactions we got from the listeners was when one morning we had been told to play the new U2 single at 8pm. When we asked why we had to do this, our beaming controller said: "Because every radio station is!" Which wasn't really a reason. We started to play it and it was pretty much business as usual with the lads. Chiming electric guitars and Bono upset about something.
> 
> After a minute I took it off, saying: "Right, I imagine it carries on like that, but if you want to hear the rest of it tune in to Terry Wogan. I work for you lot, not U2's record company, and I'm sure that Bono would fully support me in my stance against external oppression … these are the Futureheads."
> 
> I braced myself for the deluge of emails. After just two pissy emails from U2 fans, dozens said well done, because in their words "that's what 6 Music is supposed to be about."



I remember this - I think I actually properly appluded the radio in the kitchen


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 28, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> By allowing "sources"  to leak bogus choices and generally raise false flags 6-8 weeks before an election. It's a game, check it out.



Oh, I see what you're saying L_C.


Just not a game I personally have much care for


----------



## hektik (Feb 28, 2010)

why are they privatising the bits which no other commercial station does? If the rationale is that bbc6music appeals to a demographic which is desirable to a commercial channel, then surely that is the same for radio 1&2: privatise these channels, if any, and save the money that you spend on creating something which is almost exactly the same as hundreds of other radio stations, and spend it on decent, good programming for radio


----------



## Idaho (Feb 28, 2010)

Why don't they privatise radio 1? They could make money from it no problem.


----------



## kained&able (Feb 28, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Why don't they privatise radio 1? They could make money from it no problem.



nah they just need to grab all the popular shows and play em 6 months later on a commerical channel. Seems to work for Dave.


dave(NOT ME it has a capital)


----------



## PacificOcean (Feb 28, 2010)

What the hell is 6music?


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 28, 2010)

What is music? Where are we??


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Feb 28, 2010)

stephj said:


> This whole thing just smells of Murdoch...
> 
> It didn't take long for the Times to start extolling the virtues of a commercial radio operator buying 6Music:
> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article7042533.ece
> ...


yes, i agree to a degree, i think murdoch influences a great deal of the media and thompson is pre-empting expected attacks, which is pretty poor.


----------



## PacificOcean (Feb 28, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> What is music? Where are we??



It's not one of those strange DAB stations that only certain places get?

I don't get in on my DAB set in North London. Though I get BBC East Lincs and Yorkshire and the odd, but comforting after 11pm, BBC Wolverhampton. 

If so, waste of BBC money - BBC Three is bad enough, but least everyone can get it.


----------



## fen_boy (Feb 28, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> It's not one of those strange DAB stations that only certain places get?
> 
> I don't get in on my DAB set in North London. Though I get BBC East Lincs and Yorkshire and the odd, but comforting after 11pm, BBC Wolverhampton.
> 
> If so, waste of BBC money - BBC Three is bad enough, but least everyone can get it.



6music is national and you should be able to get it.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 1, 2010)

6 music is the only reason I have a digital radio. It's a great alternative to the drabness of the other stations & it's populated by people who love music.

Fuck this. Govt too busy cosying up to Cowell and his ilk & great music is going to be marginalised. Again.


----------



## laptop (Mar 1, 2010)

Idaho said:


> It does seem that all this BBC stuff is first bit of election politics.
> 
> The Tories know that if they take Murdoch's side against the BBC and the licence fee, they will get his support for the election. Labour can't take Murdoch head on so they will be keen for the BBC to publicly slash costs. The BBC are trying to beat them all to the punch by making these unclear leaks.
> 
> The fact that online content is being marked for cutbacks is interesting. Especially as it coincides neatly with Murdoch moving his stuff to fee paying.



I found the _Times_ report's coy triumphalism particularly unpleasant:



> The proposals appeappear to be calibrated to appease the BBC’s rivals in various markets
> 
> 26 Feb


----------



## London_Calling (Mar 1, 2010)

Ha ha!! 

Ed Vaizey, the shadow culture minister who last week welcomed the BBC's package of cuts, has changed his tune, calling for the digital radio station 6 Music to be saved.

Well played BBC, well played Mr Thompson.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 1, 2010)

> However, Vaizey added that the ultimate decision on the closure, or otherwise, of 6 Music lay with the corporation and the BBC Trust.



don't break out the champers just yet  auntie has been noted to act against it's license payers wishes before.


----------



## London_Calling (Mar 1, 2010)

That wasn't the point of all this.


----------



## mincepie (Mar 1, 2010)

Poor Asian Network. It's not getting much love in the media is it? No-ones coming out saying "save this."  My understanding is that it's targeted at a younger audiance, but most young people don't seem to listen to the radio much at all. Oh dear!


----------



## Voley (Mar 1, 2010)

I've never really listened to it much but I thought I'd give it a go this morning. So far we've had Jimi Hendrix, Talking Heads, an old shoegazy Ride song I used to like and a reasonable new Groove Armada song amongst various other bits n bobs including Edwyn Collins latest band playing live. Really good. 

I'm probably just in time for it to get pulled aren't I?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 1, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> That wasn't the point of all this.



I think you are seeing political maneuvering where there is none. Although if it has made a senior tory look a prat, that is a bonus.


----------



## Idaho (Mar 1, 2010)

NVP said:


> I've never really listened to it much but I thought I'd give it a go this morning. So far we've had Jimi Hendrix, Talking Heads, an old shoegazy Ride song I used to like and a reasonable new Groove Armada song amongst various other bits n bobs including Edwyn Collins latest band playing live. Really good.
> 
> I'm probably just in time for it to get pulled aren't I?



Probably


----------



## Idaho (Mar 1, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I think you are seeing political maneuvering where there is none. Although if it has made a senior tory look a prat, that is a bonus.



I think there was definitely politics and scheming going on here.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 1, 2010)

mincepie said:


> Poor Asian Network. It's not getting much love in the media is it? No-ones coming out saying "save this."  My understanding is that it's targeted at a younger audiance, but most young people don't seem to listen to the radio much at all. Oh dear!



Yeah I feel sorry to Asian Network. I can't defend it much as I rarely listen to it myself but I have a lot of time for Bobby Fricton and the shows by the Panjabi Hit Squad have always sounded pretty good.

Hopefully Bobby Friction will find a place back on BBC Radio (possibly alongside Nihal again on Radio 1). Perhaps they just tried to overstretch their appeal in the Asian demographic and it wasn't enough to appeal to everyone everytime.


----------



## mincepie (Mar 1, 2010)

As a 'gorah' I actually used to enjoy Friction + Nihal on R1, they used to have a 9pm type show, then it got shunted to the middle of the night, and I stopped listening.


----------



## no-no (Mar 1, 2010)

While I agree it's a shame I never actually listen to 6music. Except for the adam and joe show which I download with the music edited out. Radio's dead innit? There are so many web stations about if you want something alternative.

Personally I don't feel right listening to music without a skip button.


----------



## PacificOcean (Mar 1, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> 6music is national and you should be able to get it.



My DAB radio doesn't seem to think so.

Though if I want loads of Christian fundies stations, I am spoilt for choice.

DAB is crap and the BBC should ditch all it's DAB stations - I can get the Asian Network but it constantly makes this bubbling noise, much like most of the stations on my DAB set.

Even something as local as Capital or BBC Essex is unlistenable most of the time and it's not like my DAB radio was cheap.

Least with FM, I can even get BBC Three Counties without any loss of sound.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 1, 2010)

The bit rate quality of 6Music is actually better through freeview or Satellite though than on DAB, which is the last place I'd prefer to listen to it as the bitrates are woefully bad - 128kbps on DAB compared with 160kbps on Digital Satellite or Freeview - which isn't really all that much anyway (source).

In fact the UK is generally lagging behind in terms of bitrate quality on DAB which is a poor show and only strenghtens the case for DAB+ to be introduced as soon as possible.







</radio geek>


----------



## laptop (Mar 1, 2010)

<geek class="stats">



skyscraper101 said:


>





That's a very naughty graph 

</geek>


----------



## beeboo (Mar 1, 2010)

(((zero baselines)))


----------



## London_Calling (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't know what that's telling me - that the UK is within 20 kbit/s of all but 9 countries in the world?

No idea


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

The tune is a bit lame but the sentiment is in the right place.


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 2, 2010)

Man, with wagon jumping skills like this, I'm suprised he wasn't on the British Bob team. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/mar/01/ed-vaizey-bbc-6-music


----------



## London_Calling (Mar 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I think you are seeing political maneuvering where there is none. Although if it has made a senior tory look a prat, that is a bonus.


I think you are naive, but you're allowed to be at your age. In fact they rely on it. At my age, I'm not allowed so much.


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 2, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> My DAB radio doesn't seem to think so.
> 
> Though if I want loads of Christian fundies stations, I am spoilt for choice.
> 
> ...



I've found with DAB that the signal can vary wildly within a very short distance. You may be in a weak signal area or your aerial is shit or something. You should definitely be able to get 6music.


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 2, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> I think you are naive, but you're allowed to be at your age. In fact they rely on it. At my age, I'm not allowed so much.



Could you be_ any _more patronising? 

e2a
Yes, sorry you can - I've just remembered your posts on the Wire thread.


----------



## London_Calling (Mar 2, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Could you be_ any _more patronising?


I know, it's almost an outrage to link political naivety with age and life experience.


----------



## kyser_soze (Mar 2, 2010)

I reckon this was a sneaky bit of forward planning by Thompson. Vaizey's _volte face_ is amusing to say the least, altho he did have the decency to listen to R6 this time around.


----------



## yardbird (Mar 2, 2010)

Just announced:

6music and Asian radio to close


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

Might I take the opportunity to champion a very good alternative to 6 Music in the Aussie ABC station Triple J?

I have it on at home quite often and it's rather good.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 2, 2010)

Bollocks


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 2, 2010)

This is such a mistake  And very short sighted of the beeb.


----------



## clandestino (Mar 2, 2010)

yardbird said:


> Just announced:
> 
> 6music and Asian radio to close



Where was it announced? I can't find anything online yet...


----------



## Ozric (Mar 2, 2010)

ianw said:


> Where was it announced? I can't find anything online yet...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8544150.stm


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2010)

I've tweaked the thread title to reflect the fact that it's now been officially proposed.


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

Not until end of 2011 though...


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 2, 2010)

Still, at least George Lamb will be out of a job, every cloud and all that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 2, 2010)

ffs, utter wankstains


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 2, 2010)

Fuckers!! 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/mar/02/bbc-strategic-review-cuts


----------



## London_Calling (Mar 2, 2010)

For goodness sake, the game has barely begun.


----------



## PacificOcean (Mar 2, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I've found with DAB that the signal can vary wildly within a very short distance. You may be in a weak signal area or your aerial is shit or something. You should definitely be able to get 6music.



I thought that DAB was the future of radio?

Least my FM radio can pick up everything without having to move it about like an old portable telly with an ariel, where you only got a picture if you held it 5ft above the telly facing east - depending on the wind direction.

I paid £79 for my DAB radio, surely I don't have to be hanging out of the kitchen window just to get 6music?


----------



## Mr Moose (Mar 2, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> Might I take the opportunity to champion a very good alternative to 6 Music in the Aussie ABC station Triple J?
> 
> 
> 
> I have it on at home quite often and it's rather good.



Yeah! Great for The Living End.


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 2, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> I thought that DAB was the future of radio



They need more transmitters, I guess.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> I thought that DAB was the future of radio?



It was heralded as such but it isn't compatible worldwide, it doesn't pick up pirate stations, and has limited bandwidth so streams music at a lower frequency than a good MP3 and its signal varies wildly depending on the atmospheric pressure IME.

The technology needs updating.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

Mr Moose said:


> Yeah! Great for The Living End.





What I like about it though is there's a lot of enthusiasm for new UK music too. So its like a 6 Music without the dull arse DJs like Lamacq, Nemone etc and they're a lot more liberal than the BBC, swearing and everything on the radio. It's great.


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> For goodness sake, the game has barely begun.



Exactly. This is just a stalling tactic.

Doesn't mean they won't close it, but doesn't necessarily mean they will.


----------



## laptop (Mar 2, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Doesn't mean they won't close it, but doesn't necessarily mean they will.



Provoking a massive public show of support for diverse and imaginative programming is, of course, the furthest thing from their minds 

Given the nature of 6music, it's possible that every single listener will sign the petition.

In the case of some shows, Murdoch might riposte that that's both listeners...


----------



## gunneradt (Mar 2, 2010)

I only listen to BBC Essex and Radio 5 Live.  Ive always been a fan of regional radio over national radio.

I didnt even know Radio 6 existed.

And I didn't know anyone over 16 listened to Radio 1


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

gunneradt said:


> I only listen to BBC Essex and Radio 5 Live.  Ive always been a fan of regional radio over national radio.
> 
> I didnt even know Radio 6 existed.
> 
> And I didn't know anyone over 16 listened to Radio 1



Radio 1 is listened to by an alarmingly old audience considering what drivel it is.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

gunneradt said:


> And I didn't know anyone over 16 listened to Radio 1



Radio 1 still has the best dance music shows across the BBC network though imho. and there's still a strong appeal to over 18s in the late night schedules.

Pete Tong, Judge Jules, Annie Nightingale, Annie Mac, Fabio & Grooverider, Kutski, Kissy Sell Out, Mary Ann Hobbs etc..

They're all good in my book.


----------



## kyser_soze (Mar 2, 2010)

The thing is, much as I like 6 Music, it's audience demographic is basically 30-50, white, male, graduate. That it has diverse playlists doesn't alter the fact that demographically it's audience range is actually quite narrow.


----------



## gunneradt (Mar 2, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> Radio 1 still has the best dance music shows across the BBC network though imho. and there's still a strong appeal to over 18s in the late night schedules.
> 
> Pete Tong, Judge Jules, Annie Nightingale, Annie Mac, Fabio & Grooverider, Kutski, Kissy Sell Out, Mary Ann Hobbs etc..
> 
> They're all good in my book.



ha ha does Annie Nightingale still do the late show - amazing.  Ive heard of Pete Tong but have no idea who the others are.  I remember Johnnie Walker and Steve Wright - must have been the last time I listened to radio 1.


----------



## gunneradt (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> The thing is, much as I like 6 Music, it's audience demographic is basically 30-50, white, male, graduate. That it has diverse playlists doesn't alter the fact that demographically it's audience range is actually quite narrow.



sounds like I should be listening to it but I much prefer chat on a radio


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 2, 2010)

Wrighty and his posse of twats can still be found stinking up the airwaves on radio 2. I hate that cunt and his factoids


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> The thing is, much as I like 6 Music, it's audience demographic is basically 30-50, white, male, graduate. That it has diverse playlists doesn't alter the fact that demographically it's audience range is actually quite narrow.



I always saw it as post-radio 1 aimed. For people who aren't old or sad enough to be tuning into R2 just yet.


----------



## mincepie (Mar 2, 2010)

gunneradt said:


> I didnt even know Radio 6 existed.




This. IMHO, low figures and awareness are not a faliure of 6Music as such, more as the fact that the DAB platform hasn't really taken off, it's not in cars, it's not on the iPhone etc, it's not that cheap etc etc.
There are wi-fi based radio's too, but it's early days for that.


----------



## tarannau (Mar 2, 2010)

I'm afraid that whilst I personally like BBC R6L, Kyser's points about its demographic are entirely bang on. It's a more difficult bit of positioning to defend than the other Beeb radio channels. 

That's not to say I want 6 Music gone, but I can see why it's a candidate for closure amongst the portfolio.


----------



## gunneradt (Mar 2, 2010)

mincepie said:


> This. IMHO, low figures and awareness are not a faliure of 6Music as such, more as the fact that the DAB platform hasn't really taken off, it's not in cars, it's not on the iPhone etc, it's not that cheap etc etc.
> There are wi-fi based radio's too, but it's early days for that.



it's in my car - I just don't listen to it


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> The thing is, much as I like 6 Music, it's audience demographic is basically 30-50, white, male, graduate. That it has diverse playlists doesn't alter the fact that demographically it's audience range is actually quite narrow.



What's the alternative? Making a patronising and shite 'BBC Rainbow Radio' that tries hard to tick ethnic boxes but that no-one actually listens to?

People who are really into music tend to be in that demographic. Oddly enough it being a UK radio station, the majority of listeners are white. Let us all rend our hair and gnash our teeth at our innate racialisticy.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2010)

Idaho said:


> People who are really into music tend to be in that demographic.



!!!

(Music) journalists often do, I'll say that.


----------



## kyser_soze (Mar 2, 2010)

It's a national station that has a listenership of circa 600K listeners, from an audience demographic that is not what you could, under _any_ circumstance, describe as being underserved by the media. It's nothing to do with whether it pulls in ethnic audiences, and everything to do with giving a whole national channel over to such a tiny audience that's being funded by everyone.

I don't think it should go, but as a station it's not got the depth and bredth of audience to justify it's continued existance.


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> It's a national station that has a listenership of circa 600K listeners, from an audience demographic that is not what you could, under _any_ circumstance, describe as being underserved by the media. It's nothing to do with whether it pulls in ethnic audiences, and everything to do with giving a whole national channel over to such a tiny audience that's being funded by everyone.
> 
> I don't think it should go, but as a station it's not got the depth and bredth of audience to justify it's continued existance.



Why not take the best shows from Asian Network 6 music and 1 Xtra and combine them into one station?


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> !!!
> 
> (Music) journalists often do, I'll say that.



I mean something specific which I can't be arsed to articulate and specify atm. Sozzer.


----------



## kyser_soze (Mar 2, 2010)

Because then the BBC would take an even bigger kicking that it ignores BME audiences generally than it does already.


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Mar 2, 2010)

gunneradt said:


> ha ha does Annie Nightingale still do the late show - amazing.


yeah really amazing considering she's 67, she has the 2am slot on Friday mornings -  mainly playing  breakbeat, I think she's wonderful, hers is the only show I listen to on R1 nowadays


----------



## tarannau (Mar 2, 2010)

1Xtra is about the most lively, youthful and diverse station on the beeb - you'd be mad to fuck with that imo, as unpopular as it may be with some of us older folks on here.


----------



## tarannau (Mar 2, 2010)

The whole idea that people who are 'really into music' must like 6 Music is more than a little false and patronising fwiw.


----------



## kyser_soze (Mar 2, 2010)

Yup, exceptionally diverse station, especially in the evenings, and a great complement to R1.


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Because then the BBC would take an even bigger kicking that it ignores BME audiences generally than it does already.



They aren't particularly interested in it's output because it tries to produce content for 'BME' audiences. Which is in itself a dull and patronising starting point. You always get hung up on these demographic tick sheets that places, areas, programmes, etc need to complete before being validated. It's a nonsense.

It's not going to get very good audience figures for a Punjabi youth orientated show, simply because there are only a small number of potential listeners, probably already served by local radio they are already loyal to.


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

tarannau said:


> The whole idea that people who are 'really into music' must like 6 Music is more than a little false and patronising fwiw.



I was trying to say that the majority of people who frequently listen, collect, buy, read about, rock/pop music - the dominant and most successful and popular style of music in this country over the last 50 years - in it's various forms tend to be in the demographic descibed. 

Yawn-o-fucking-rama.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> The thing is, much as I like 6 Music, it's audience demographic is basically 30-50, white, male, graduate. That it has diverse playlists doesn't alter the fact that demographically it's audience range is actually quite narrow.



True. It's actually a good point. 

6 Music is still fairly narrow in its appeal. Which is in a way part of the whole argument against multi-channel 'minority interest' stations in the first place. Where radio 1 had a remit to provide a broad selection of various minority interest shows, a lot of them could now be punted off to 6 Music to fulfil the white male 30-50 quota. Likewise happened to reggae dancehall and garage audiences. They get shown the 1Xtra door and are expected to tune in. What happens in fact is they loose a lot of the audience to rivals (or pirates). In concentrating the demographic of each station they ultimately they become less interesting as they compete with commercial stations (see Kiss, XFM, Absolute etc).

The great thing about Radio 1, pre-digital, and post smashy and nicey was that it genuinely had the broadest selection of beats and (arguably) the broadest range of listeners. When I was aged 13/14 in 1995 I was listening to allsorts of stuff from Tongy on a Friday, Peel at the weekends, Andy Kershaw, Annie Nightingale, Westwood, the Rock Show, the Evening Session, jungle music etc etc. By creating more stations to fragment that audience, there's less of an argument to cater to minorities on the bigger national stations and so the BBC creates a mirror image of its commercial rivals. And in so doing, they end up catering to the broader appeal of that demographic, lest they start tuning into other stations.

I do wonder though (based on the latest Rajar figures) why 1Xtra has seemingly avoided the axe. They're getting less listeners than 6 Music.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 2, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Why not take the best shows from Asian Network 6 music and 1 Xtra and combine them into one station?



Good idea!


----------



## tarannau (Mar 2, 2010)

Listen to yourself you uninformed moaner.

1Xtra may be theoretically a 'BME' station, but you may have noticed that the music is more than just popular than amongst black youth. It also reflects new british and world music far better than R1. When radio stations in Jamaica and beyond start playing 1Xtra shows taped wholesale you know it's a respected force globally. And, judging from radios around here, it's holding its own with UK youth too


----------



## zoooo (Mar 2, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> I do wonder though (based on the latest Rajar figures) why 1Xtra has seemingly avoided the axe. They're getting less listeners than 6 Music.


I wonder...


----------



## Callie (Mar 2, 2010)

tarannau said:


> 1Xtra is about the most lively, youthful and diverse station on the beeb - you'd be mad to fuck with that imo, as unpopular as it may be with some of us older folks on here.



does 1Xtra have a good amount of listeners?


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## London_Calling (Mar 2, 2010)

FFS don't make a graph of those stats, it'd look pretty ugly for 6.


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## tarannau (Mar 2, 2010)

It's not solely about listeners though, is it - the BBC has a mission to try and reach markets other than purely commercial ones.

Add to that - and from Idaho's description alone - 1Xtra's got a more limited and hard to reach youthful demographic, where 6 live is targeted at an already engaged group of the type the BBC already attracts.


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## kyser_soze (Mar 2, 2010)

1xtra fulfils the BBCs remit to broadcast to audiences unserved outside the mainsteam - 'urban' youth in this case - which is why it's not being axed. BBCR6 doesn't do this, and in fact appeals to an audience that is hugely overserved by the BBC in it's output. It's really that simple, and white, mainly male, 30-50 something music lovers saying 'But we _really_ love music!!!' won't make an iota of difference.


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Listen to yourself you uninformed moaner.
> 
> 1Xtra may be theoretically a 'BME' station, but you may have noticed that the music is more than just popular than amongst black youth. It also reflects new british and world music far better than R1. When radio stations in Jamaica and beyond start playing 1Xtra shows taped wholesale you know it's a respected force globally. And, judging from radios around here, it's holding its own with UK youth too



I don't really care whether they keep 1 Xtra or not. I just prefer 6 music. I would listen to 1Xtra but I get bored of having to turn off/over in between the good stuff for the tedious warbling 'RnB' tracks or some of the more commercial hip-hop.

All of which is by the by. Box ticking, cultural ghettos, popularity, total listeners, specialised stations, local stations, etc, etc. There is more than a million things to say on this subject and none of us are really saying anything clever yet.


----------



## Callie (Mar 2, 2010)

tarannau said:


> It's not solely about listeners though, is it - the BBC has a mission to try and reach markets other than purely commercial ones.



I think it shouldn't solely be about listeners but I think it is. They have to prove that the shows they provide are popular and that people are listening to them. How do they do that? NUmbers of listeners.



> Add to that - and from Idaho's description alone - 1Xtra's got a more limited and hard to reach youthful demographic, where 6 live is targeted at an already engaged group of the type the BBC already attracts.



Is the BBC ever really going to work for that demographic with the other sources for them - as previously mentioned pirate radio, nowadays internet radio (not digital as such). I don't think any digital radio stations will ever pull decent audiences. The stations are inaccessible for the most part unless youre sat in front of a computer where you'd have numerous choices for other sources or a digital reciever, which most people arent.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> 1xtra fulfils the BBCs remit to broadcast to audiences unserved outside the mainsteam - 'urban' youth in this case - which is why it's not being axed. BBCR6 doesn't do this, and in fact appeals to an audience that is hugely overserved by the BBC in it's output. It's really that simple, and white, mainly male, 30-50 something music lovers saying 'But we _really_ love music!!!' won't make an iota of difference.



Examples? Radio 2 is for old men and lorry drivers (second to non traffic reportage). Radio 4 is for old women and bourgeois weirdos, radio 5 is for sport heads and r/w tossbags.

Where else can I get a mix of indie/rocl/hip hop/new and classic etc. The broad appeal.


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## Callie (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> 1xtra fulfils the BBCs remit to broadcast to audiences unserved outside the mainsteam - 'urban' youth in this case - which is why it's not being axed.




I sincerely doubt the urban youth listen to 1Xtra.


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## tarannau (Mar 2, 2010)

No, you're just sounding a bit smug with your assertions about what people 'really' into music are like.

You're welcome to your preferences, but your sneers about 'warbling RnB' and what you consider proper music fans are a little grating.

I'd like 6Music to be kept fwiw, but it's the station that's hardest to defend in position and reach terms. I feel like I'm fighting for Mojo magazine or something


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## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

Maybe we should have a campaign to make white people listen to 1 Xtra. That will make it lose credibility in the eyes of tarannau and kyzer and they will call for it to be stripped of it's BME Media cub scout badge.


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## Callie (Mar 2, 2010)

I love the BBC proposed principle survey which is essentially the consultation element of this whole process.

It asked for comments and if you agree with the proposals but proposals mean nothing unless you can describe how they plan to be actioned.

There is no consultation. Just box ticking.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Examples? Radio 2 is for old men and lorry drivers (second to non traffic reportage). Radio 4 is for old women and bourgeois weirdos, radio 5 is for sport heads and r/w tossbags.
> 
> Where else can I get a mix of indie/rocl/hip hop/new and classic etc. The broad appeal.



I disagree; listen to R2's evening output; Radcliffe & Maconie, Mike Harding. Some great docs on Nick Drake and Jeff Buckley in the past. Not forgetting Lamarr's rockabilly and reggae programmes.

But I prefer, on a daily basis, 6.


----------



## Spion (Mar 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Radio 4 is for old women and bourgeois weirdos


*chortle*

*wanders off to make sarnie and switch on R4*


----------



## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

tarannau said:


> No, you're just sounding a bit smug with your assertions about what people 'really' into music are like.
> 
> You're welcome to your preferences, but your sneers about 'warbling RnB' and what you consider proper music fans are a little grating.
> 
> I'd like 6Music to be kept fwiw, but it's the station that's hardest to defend in position and reach terms. I feel like I'm fighting for Mojo magazine or something



I don't say anything about proper music fans. I'm just identifying the groups of people who spend the most time and money on music.

You are just posing for style points. You don't want to be seen to like something that appeals to that most evil of demographics.


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## Spion (Mar 2, 2010)

jer said:


> I disagree; listen to R2's evening output; Radcliffe & Maconie, Mike Harding. Some great docs on Nick Drake and Jeff Buckley in the past. Not forgetting Lamarr's rockabilly and reggae programmes.


I think all that fits under DotCom's 'old men' demographic


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## kyser_soze (Mar 2, 2010)

Callie said:


> I sincerely doubt the urban youth listen to 1Xtra.



Dunno, I don't work for any organisations that have free access to that depth of RAJAR data anymore, mores the pity. 



> You are just posing for style points. You don't want to be seen to like something that appeals to that most evil of demographics.



This is a ridiculous statement - both of us have said, repeatedly, that we don't agree with it being axed, but that it's the hardest station to defend given it's audience.


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## Callie (Mar 2, 2010)

jer said:


> I disagree; listen to R2's evening output; Radcliffe & Maconie, Mike Harding. Some great docs on Nick Drake and Jeff Buckley in the past. Not forgetting Lamarr's rockabilly and reggae programmes.
> 
> But I prefer, on a daily basis, 6.



Evening output always seems to be the way for the interesting and unique shows. The content of daytime radio makes me cringe. 

iplayer is a godsend, would be nice to have access to archived shows such as the evening ones rather than just keeping them for a week or so


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Listen to yourself you uninformed moaner.
> 
> 1Xtra may be theoretically a 'BME' station, but you may have noticed that the music is more than just popular than amongst black youth. It also reflects new british and world music far better than R1. When radio stations in Jamaica and beyond start playing 1Xtra shows taped wholesale you know it's a respected force globally. And, judging from radios around here, it's holding its own with UK youth too



If its so popular then why is it second only to the Asian Network in terms of its listener reach? I'm not saying its not a good station. In fact its a great station (when Tim Westwood isn't on), but the point here is about the BBC axeing something that is growing in its audience figures year on year vs a station which is actually losing its figures. Much as I respect that it is doing a massive favour to young British talent in Jamaica, it doesn't stand to reason that while its spending our license fee doing this, its losing interest amongst its own specifically-catered-for audience base. If the figures show its getting less popular, then something's not right is it?

Why don't you read the guardian article from last month which actually heaps praise on 6 Music in that during the last 3 months of 2009 it was "up 11.4% on the previous quarter and 12.3% year on year", compared to 1Xtra which was down "0.9% on the previous quarter and 0.4% year on year" (Rajar figures).

So, regardless of how good the stations are - they have to be a justifiable expense. Whilst you could excuse a tiny listenership to a minority show on Radio 1 - the fact that these specialist stations were created to appeal directly to those minority audiences and some have actually *decreased* their own minority listenership, suggests that its not ultimately a justifyable expense. 

All I'm saying, is that is only strengthens the argument against minority stations is the first place because they're forced to compete with their counterpart commercials and either lose their audience through being too narrow in their appeal, or end up becoming more bland (6 Music) in order to keep up with their rivals.


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## Callie (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Dunno, I don't work for any organisations that have free access to that depth of RAJAR data anymore, mores the pity.



personal opinion? or is that simply irrelevant? commonsense tell me that younger people in to the 1Xtra types of music aren't going to be listening to digital radio. However having said that I guess the appeal of it is for those outside of towns and cities where there would in most cases be other alternatives.


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## krtek a houby (Mar 2, 2010)

Spion said:


> I think all that fits under DotCom's 'old men' demographic



Eh? 

How is the music genres I mentioned for old men?


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## Callie (Mar 2, 2010)

How are the RAJA figures complied? is it by listening live on the iplayer or all listeners (?including listen again via iplayer)


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## tarannau (Mar 2, 2010)

Callie - I will personally promise you that I hear 1Xtra all around here, with plenty of the DJs making splashes with personal appearances.

Like Kyser I've no longer got full access to radio figures, but 1Xtra always did pretty well with youthful demographics


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## killer b (Mar 2, 2010)

Callie said:


> How are the RAJA figures complied? is it by listening live on the iplayer or all listeners (?including listen again via iplayer)


voodoo magic, i think.

they're notoriously unreliable, and rely on a sample of people keeping a diary of what they listen to (unless it's changed recently).


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## Kanda (Mar 2, 2010)

Has 'outraged of Tunbridge Wells' posted yet?


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## Callie (Mar 2, 2010)

excellent


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## killer b (Mar 2, 2010)

i suspect the rajar figures, while heavily weighted in some way, will be underscoring 1extra and the like - the demographic it appeals to don't strike me as the type to fill out a tiresome diary week in & out...


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## chieftain (Mar 2, 2010)

Bollocks, I really like 6 music, other than radio 4 its the only thing worth listening to... (& radio 5 for football covrage and then turn it off sharpish)


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## krtek a houby (Mar 2, 2010)

Why not axe R1? There's hundreds of stations like it the length and breadth of the island; whereas there's not many like 6


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## London_Calling (Mar 2, 2010)

Did you look at the listening figures?


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## Kanda (Mar 2, 2010)

jer said:


> Why not axe R1? There's hundreds of stations like it the length and breadth of the island; whereas there's not many like 6



Axe the station with the most listeners? 

It's not like those presenters and programmes will disappear completely, or I doubt they would. They'd just get shoved around the scheduling to other stations (or the so called popular ones will.)


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

Radio 1 should really be looked at as two stations, split by day and night.

Daytime - commercial pop, aimed at teens.
Evening - specialist, with an older demographic, very good spectrum of dance music.


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

To put the costs of BBC Radio into perspective, here's a nifty little (well actually rather big) diagram to illustrate it...


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## London_Calling (Mar 2, 2010)

You don't know whether to laugh or cry it's so predictable:

BBC: protests might change our mind about 6 Music


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## Kanda (Mar 2, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> You don't know whether to laugh or cry it's so predictable:
> 
> BBC: protests might change our mind about 6 Music



Well they have to listen to the licence paying public I guess


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## paolo (Mar 2, 2010)

110m on BBC3, which is proposed to be left untouched?

Just think, for a mere 10% slice off BBC Packet Of Crisps, we could keep 6music.


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## London_Calling (Mar 2, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Well they have to listen to the licence paying public I guess


The people demanded it, what could the BBC do!

It'll still rumble on for a couple of months though.


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## Idaho (Mar 2, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> This is a ridiculous statement - both of us have said, repeatedly, that we don't agree with it being axed, but that it's the hardest station to defend given it's audience.



And BBC 3's and R7's audience are not served by other output?


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## DotCommunist (Mar 2, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> You don't know whether to laugh or cry it's so predictable:
> 
> BBC: protests might change our mind about 6 Music



You actually think this is machiavellian move and counter move plotting don't you?

I think it's more reeling from crises to crises and honest panickery.

Now you'll call me naive again


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## PacificOcean (Mar 2, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> 110m on BBC3, which is proposed to be left untouched?
> 
> Just think, for a mere 10% slice off BBC Packet Of Crisps, we could keep 6music.



BBC Three has produced some fantastic shows (and tbf it's fair share of dross, much like ITV1), doesn't mean that it's budget should be slashed to hold up some digital station that many can't receive and those who can don't listen too.

The 600k figure is it's weekly reach.  Most of it's output gets a few hundred or a few thousand listeners at most for each show.

But I agree the BBC should cater for all tastes, but how small are these tastes going to be?

What next?  BBC Enfield live weather reports 24/7 on DAB?  Live Fishing from the Avon?


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## paolo (Mar 2, 2010)

Name the BBC3 shows that are beyond the ability of commercial TV. Once you've done that, price up the remainder. Bet it's  way more than the cost of 6music.


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## Hollis (Mar 2, 2010)

Typical BBC cut the good stuff and leave us with the shite.  When's BBC4 for the boot?


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## stethoscope (Mar 2, 2010)

I reckon BBC4 isn't bad at all... BBC3 has gone downhill since it was launched, and given that it tends to feed BBC1 and BBC2 with programmes anyway, why not just get rid of BBC3 and put those programmes on 1 and 2? Either that or merge BBC3 and BBC4?


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## PacificOcean (Mar 2, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Name the BBC3 shows that are beyond the ability of commercial TV. Once you've done that, price up the remainder. Bet it's  way more than the cost of 6music.



Off the top of my head:

Being Human
Ideal
Gavin & Stacey
The Might Boosh
The Smoking Room
Monkey Dust
Torchwood
Dis/connected

And so on.....

I haven't heard one thing on 6music (mainly as expensive as my DAB set is I can't receive it in North London - I am not in the fucking Shetland Isles). Like I said before though I can receive BBC Lincs & S. Yorkshire.


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## PacificOcean (Mar 2, 2010)

Hollis said:


> Typical BBC cut the good stuff and leave us with the shite.  When's BBC4 for the boot?



I think it's more the fact that most of the country can't receive 6music, 
Because:

A) Most people don't own a DAB set and;
B) Those who do can't get it or just get a bubbling sound.


----------



## paolo (Mar 2, 2010)

[/QUOTE]

Quality stuff, and indeed they're all way outside the norm for commercial TV.

And then I look at tonight's schedule? None of them. Not even a repeat.

I'm still convinced that a 10% chop on BBC3, with the remained smartly spent, is a better cut.



PacificOcean said:


> I think it's more the fact that most of the country can't receive 6music,
> Because:
> 
> A) Most people don't own a DAB set and;
> B) Those who do can't get it or just get a bubbling sound.



For at-home listening, a computer works. It would be interesting to see a study of the "listening gap"... people who perhaps would like 6, and whether they've tried it and if not whether they don't have the kit, don't know about, or indeed have listened and don't like it.


----------



## laptop (Mar 2, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> For at-home listening, a computer works. It would be interesting to see a study of the "listening gap"...



At the place I was working last year, I used to listen to 6music on the computer to block out annoying colleagues... and then the IT department blocked all BBC audio because their network wasn't up to it


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## ska invita (Mar 2, 2010)

Lots of high profile people are coming out saying save it, but i wonder how many of them ever listen to it? Anyhow, the station is defintiley on the way up in listening figures:


----------



## paolo (Mar 2, 2010)

ska invita said:


> Lots of high profile people are coming out saying save it, but i wonder how many of them ever listen to it? Anyhow, the station is defintiley on the way up in listening figures:



I'd guess the numbers will go up even more - for now at least.

I wonder how many people out there just don't know about it? I can't quite remember how I found it, but it was only in the last year or so.


----------



## PacificOcean (Mar 2, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> I wonder how many people out there just don't know about it? I can't quite remember how I found it, but it was only in the last year or so.



The BBC have advertised it loads on BBC1, but being DAB - it's shite quality, when you can spend a tenner on decent FM radio, why spend hundreds on some shite DAB thingy that can't pick fuck all up without all the bubbling noise.

Not all of of us want to sit up stairs at the computer to listen to a low bitrate stream of some radio station in mono.

It needs to be in cars, built in to FM radios, be as cheap as an FM or be good or better for the premium they are charging.  

Who wants to pay £80 odd quid for a set that may or may not pick up rubbish like "Rainbow Radio" when FM is fine?

6music, 1xtra and BBC7 are a waste of money for the seven people who listen too them.


----------



## Melinda (Mar 2, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> Who wants to pay £80 odd quid for a set that may or may not pick up rubbish like "Rainbow Radio" when FM is fine?


Oi! Rainbow play Hi Life and hip life.


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## paolo (Mar 2, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> The BBC have advertised it loads on BBC1, but being DAB - it's shite quality, when you can spend a tenner on decent FM radio why spend hundreds on some shite DAB thingy that can't pick fuck all up without all the bubbling noise.
> 
> Not all of of us want to sit up stairs at the computer to listen to a low bitrate stream of some radio station in mono.
> 
> ...



mmmkay.

You're not sitting at a computer? I am, listening to 6music. In ***ster-e-o***.

But what you're arguing is a tech argument, not content. That DAB should be axed. Or am I misunderstanding?


----------



## PacificOcean (Mar 2, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> mmmkay.
> 
> You're not sitting at a computer? I am, listening to 6music. In ***ster-e-o***.
> 
> But what you're arguing is a tech argument, not content. That DAB should be axed. Or am I misunderstanding?



DAB will never take off as is it worse that what it's replacing (ie FM).

Freeview, Sky and so on offers more choice with a better picture than analogue TV. 

I am just asking if it's worth the BBC pumping money into a dead format that no one is going to buy (there is not one selling point of DAB, and every other country has moved onto DAB +), the RAJAR figures prove that no one is listening to DAB and that is way all the big commercial operators such as Global have shut the DAB stations.


----------



## mr steev (Mar 2, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> The BBC have advertised it loads on BBC1, but being DAB - it's shite quality, when you can spend a tenner on decent FM radio, why spend hundreds on some shite DAB thingy that can't pick fuck all up without all the bubbling noise.



Being the discerning music lover I am, I hardly watch tv so that advertising didn't really reach me. I only discovered 6music a year or so ago, from 'listening again' to some shows. 

I got a DAB radio last year purely to listen to 6music. I then had to go out and spend another £20 on an aerial so my radio got any station other than the world service! 

6music is a quality station. I would be gutted (and pissed off with a redundant radio.)


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## ska invita (Mar 2, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> DAB will never take off as is it worse that what it's replacing (ie FM).


The plan is to kill FM and have just DAB - the state will sell the airwaves (not sure who to or how that all works). They know its unpopular, so its being fazed in over the next ten+ years.

According to this the FM swith off will be in 2015, but Im pretty sure that's been revised towards 2020:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jun/16/digital-britain-analogue-radio-switchoff


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## twistedAM (Mar 2, 2010)

mr steev said:


> 6music is a quality station. I would be gutted (and pissed off with a redundant radio.)



I stopped listening to daytime 6Music about three years ago when they seemed to be playing an REM song every hour and although I felt bad I had to stop it after spilling a few cups of coffee in the race to turn over the DAB before my ears got ruined by any more Stipeism. Shame as they did play some reasonable stuff but I had to think of the furniture.


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2010)

Who do you listen to now then?  BBC6 took a massive wrong turn when they shunted that halfwit Lamb in, and Laverne seem to be following a somewhat similar Radio One-lite chitty chatty approach, but there's still enough on there to keep my interest for some of the day.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2010)

editor said:


> Who do you listen to now then?



For a good while NME Radio was a great deal better than 6Music. It had hardly any ads, and the playlist was so diverse you hardly noticed any repeats during the day. That was when they were London only.

Not its gone national on DAB it has gone downhill a bit but it is still 10 times better than XFM. 

Personally I'd rather do the specialist shows on Radio 1 on iplayer or stream stations like Triple J or listen to pirate raido.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2010)

They've just played Cylob, followed by The KLF, at 10 o'clock in the morning.

Not exactly what you'd normally expect to hear on a national station


----------



## Hollis (Mar 3, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> I think it's more the fact that most of the country can't receive 6music,
> Because:
> 
> A) Most people don't own a DAB set and;
> B) Those who do can't get it or just get a bubbling sound.



Not on their PCs?


----------



## mr steev (Mar 3, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> But I agree the BBC should cater for all tastes, but how small are these tastes going to be?
> 
> What next?  BBC Enfield live weather reports 24/7 on DAB?  Live Fishing from the Avon?



6 music isn't an obscure channel catering for a very small niche market. It's not reaching it's audience, but it's audience is there and it big enough to warrant a dedicated bbc station imo.


----------



## tarannau (Mar 3, 2010)

Gawd, don't encourage 6Music to pile on listeners to justify its existence. That way and they'll be putting George Lamb and Lauren Laverne on daily repeat.

Personally I like the station, but like most of its other supporters here, I'm already pretty well served by the Beeb and am more than capable of getting similar music elsewhere, albeit with not such concentrated goodness. Let's face it - the Bhangra and Bollywood news from the Asian network would be harder to integrate elsewhere than 6Music's output.


----------



## Lubi (Mar 3, 2010)

Hollis said:


> Not on their PCs?



We listen via Cable TV (virgin 909) quite a bit, as it is in our living room -  we have also listened to individual shows on "listen again" on the PC.

Does anyone know if the "listen again" shows are taken into account when working out audience figures?

I seem to remember hearing that over 50% of 6music shows are listened to via iplayer?


----------



## mr steev (Mar 3, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Gawd, don't encourage 6Music to pile on listeners to justify its existence. That way and they'll be putting George Lamb and Lauren Laverne on daily repeat.



That's not what I'd want at all 

In the review a few weeks ago it was stated that the station needed to improve it's listening figures. I don't think this means that it needs to go more mainstream to attract new listeners, but more new listeners need to be introduced to the station as it is.

I still think/hope that this is all a part of an attempt to raise the stations profile. And with it all over the newspapers, a facebook group of over 100,00 it seems like it may be working.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8546696.stm


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Mar 3, 2010)

Hollis said:


> Not on their PCs?



Most people in this country do not have access to a pc as easily as a radio.  For instance, many companies don't allow staff to access internet radio stations via their work computer, so it's not an option during day time.  See also time in the car.

Until DAB/internet radio  actually takes off in a big way, 6 music will always have a very big disadvantage for viewing figures - but those devices are starting to become more common, so it really seems like a dumb time to ditch the station.


----------



## editor (Mar 3, 2010)

A rather cynical take on things here:
The BBC's big PR stunt - why 6 Music is the new Wispa

They might have a point too.

http://ashleynorris.posterous.com/the-bbcs-big-pr-stunt-why-6-music-is-the-new


----------



## PacificOcean (Mar 3, 2010)

Just ditch DAB which is technology from the early 90's (the first DAB broadcasts from the BBC were in 1995), and switch to DAB+ like the rest of the world?

Then maybe people will start buying DAB+ sets and there will be a real alternative to FM - and as it will be a European standard - car manufactures will fit them as standard.  Then people will have access to these digital stations without having to hang the radio out of the window for reception or listen on PC's where they will have to fight with the thousands of other internet stations?


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## mrsfran (Mar 3, 2010)

Adam Buxton offers Mark Thompson out for a fight live on Channel 4 news: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid62612474001?bctid=69535760001

I love Adam SO MUCH.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 3, 2010)

missfran said:


> Adam Buxton offers Mark Thompson out for a fight live on Channel 4 news: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid62612474001?bctid=69535760001
> 
> I love Adam SO MUCH.



Interesting defense of the asian network as well


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 3, 2010)

missfran said:


> Adam Buxton offers Mark Thompson out for a fight live on Channel 4 news: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid62612474001?bctid=69535760001
> 
> I love Adam SO MUCH.



Good points made. Bobby Friction makes a good case for the Asian Network too (despite the fact that its ratings are pretty poor).

Interesting points made also by Paxman last night on Newsnight on why Thompson is targeting the Asian Network and 6 Music while 1Xtra gets away with its poor performing ratings. His defence of BBC3 using Little Britain and Gavin & Stacey as an example though is 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8546940.stm

Worth listening to, just to hear the moment Paxman quotes Westwood


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## belboid (Mar 3, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8546940.stm



wonder who's giggling in the background there as paxo reads out that nights BBC4 listings


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 3, 2010)

Think its Paxman himself.

In further news...

BBC Trust open to 6 Music 'rethink'


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## twistedAM (Mar 3, 2010)

editor said:


> Who do you listen to now then?  BBC6 took a massive wrong turn when they shunted that halfwit Lamb in, and Laverne seem to be following a somewhat similar Radio One-lite chitty chatty approach, but there's still enough on there to keep my interest for some of the day.



Mostly busy these days downloading shit off daytrotter.com and putting in into shuffle = twistedAM radio

i always have too many things I want to check out to really have time to listen to radio; plus I have a low tolerance threshold of certain things like REM, Blur etc which almost make me psychically gag


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## invisibleplanet (Mar 3, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Why not take the best shows from Asian Network 6 music and 1 Xtra and combine them into one station?



Asian network has some brilliant music shows. Can't believe the Beeb are closing it down. Am I the only person on urban who tunes in?


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 3, 2010)

invisibleplanet said:


> Asian network has some brilliant music shows. Can't believe the Beeb are closing it down. Am I the only person on urban who tunes in?



No I do, sometimes. But I turn it off when they start talking in Gujarati and when the bollywood stuff comes on. Friction is ace though.


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## tarannau (Mar 3, 2010)

I can't say it's ever been the first option, but it's sometimes a decent change of pace that appeals on a restless channel surf. I've heard some good stuff on there, but I can't really say I feel involved with the schedule. It's a shame it's become a bit of a sacrificial lamb in this round of tactical cuts.


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## invisibleplanet (Mar 3, 2010)

<sorry in advance to the jingles department> the BBC should just close their jingles department. jingles suck. jingles are soooo 1950s


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 3, 2010)

They should actually stop commisioning shite TV shows like Hole In The Wall, Hotter Than My Daughter, and Snog Marry Avoid etc


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## invisibleplanet (Mar 3, 2010)

Snog Marry Avoid is a public service broadcast.  It should stay


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 4, 2010)

gunneradt said:


> ha ha does Annie Nightingale still do the late show - amazing.  Ive heard of Pete Tong but have no idea who the others are.  I remember Johnnie Walker and Steve Wright - must have been the last time I listened to radio 1.



She sure does. She has out-Peeled John Peel in terms of how long she's survived at Radio 1.

In fact she's probably my all time favourite DJ ever after Peel. Certainly my all time favourite female DJ. You have to give respect to the woman for longevity. I recommend reading her book too if you get the chance.


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## PacificOcean (Mar 4, 2010)

As much as I don't care what happens to 6music as I don't listen to it and it's not my sort of thing, but  Isn't this what the BBC is for?

Catering for stuff the commercial sector don't provide?

Isn't that the BBC's remit?


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## PacificOcean (Mar 4, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> She sure does. She has out-Peeled John Peel in terms of how long she's survived at Radio 1.
> 
> In fact she's probably my all time favourite DJ ever after Peel. Certainly my all time favourite female DJ. You have to give respect to the woman for longevity. I recommend reading her book too if you get the chance.



But she has been shoved onto a 5am slot at the weekends.

Hardly primetime.

I listened to her show on K once and it freaked me out.  Not sure what audience she is aiming grime, beats and electronica at that time for?


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 4, 2010)

2am to 4am Friday mornings.

She's been doing graveyard slots for donkeys years. Suits the music really.


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## stethoscope (Mar 4, 2010)

invisibleplanet said:


> Asian network has some brilliant music shows. Can't believe the Beeb are closing it down. Am I the only person on urban who tunes in?



No - I listen regularly too, esp. The Bhangra Mixtape


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## dlx1 (Mar 4, 2010)

missfran said:


> Adam Buxton offers Mark Thompson out for a fight live on Channel 4 news: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid62612474001?bctid=69535760001



did Mark Thompson answer the questions/ plea  ?


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## ebay sex moomin (Mar 7, 2010)

missfran said:


> Adam Buxton offers Mark Thompson out for a fight live on Channel 4 news: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid62612474001?bctid=69535760001


 Mark Thompson's look of disgust is priceless!

Just emailed the BBC trust to let them know my views. I don't normally bother with these things, but I'd really hate to lose this station.

email addy for the bbc strategy consultations review- srconsultation@bbc.co.uk


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 7, 2010)

There is a total logic-fail about the reasons given for 6-music and the asian network's closure – namely that the BBC should not be doing what the commercial sector can provide. But there are no commercial equivalents, nor are there likely to be. 

If you want to axe things the commercial sector can provide, you could start with BBC1 and Radio 2. The BBC's biggest concerns are stuff commercial stations could provide. 

If it is all a pr stunt, it's a cunt's trick. The BBC should be above such things – and it undermines itself if it ever gets caught doing it.


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## belboid (Mar 9, 2010)

my god, how could anyone gt rid of a station that is playing Captain Beefheart at ten in the morning!


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 9, 2010)

Interesting. Ed O'Brien's letter to the BBC re: 6Music.




			
				Ed O'Brien said:
			
		

> To whom it may concern,
> 
> I am writing regarding the news today that 6 Music is going to be closed, in the hope that you reconsider this decision. To be honest I, along with a vast number of other musicians, music industry types and real music fans, are completely shocked and baffled by this news. I wonder if those who made this decision are actually aware of the hugely important role that 6 music plays in fostering and promoting new bands, as well as still playing the likes of the band that I am in. It literally is the radio lifeblood for music outside of the mainstream. Not to denigrate Radio's 1 and 2, but it really is the only station that puts music first, and that's from a punters point of view and not some bloke in a band. Nowhere else can you hear an archived session track from T Rex juxtaposed next to Midlake's latest release. As David Bowie, put it ... it keeps the spirit of John Peel alive.
> 
> ...


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## Napoleon Boot (Mar 18, 2010)

*Save 6Music- London Protest 27th March*

Hello,
Long time lurker, but this is my first post, so go easy on me! 

I wanted to let you all know that the first official protest against the closure of BBC 6Music will be happening outside Broadcasting House, W1, on Saturday 27th March, from Noon. I know that people here have differing opinions on the BBC cuts; 1Xtra vs Asian Network vs 6Music etc- but I would point out that we see this as the start of a wider movement against cuts across the Beeb. Hidden by the 6Music smokescreen, the BBC are planning to do away with BBC7's branding and original programming, demoting it to Radio 4Xtra, presumably filling it with 'You and Yours- Uncut!', 'Money Box- Inside the Slit' and other tediousness. Radio 4 stands to lose a huge chunk of it's drama, and gain even more repeats- and once Asian Network and 6Music are out the way, how long will 1Xtra be allowed to carry on? It seems that all that's safe under Mark Thompson's leadership is rubbish- Hole in the Wall and Total Wipeout will be returning for extra long seasons, BBC1 has just announced. I mean, I like seeing someone fall on their arse as much as anyone, but I don't think you could really call it distinctive, quality programing, worth £142.50.

Anyway, rant over- Here's a link to the event details on F***book, for those so inclined: http://bit.ly/save6protest

Ta! Nap


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## PacificOcean (Mar 21, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> There is a total logic-fail about the reasons given for 6-music and the asian network's closure – namely that the BBC should not be doing what the commercial sector can provide. But there are no commercial equivalents, nor are there likely to be.
> 
> If you want to axe things the commercial sector can provide, you could start with BBC1 and Radio 2. The BBC's biggest concerns are stuff commercial stations could provide.
> 
> If it is all a pr stunt, it's a cunt's trick. The BBC should be above such things – and it undermines itself if it ever gets caught doing it.



Exactly, the BBC's remit is to cater for audiences that aren't provided for by the commercial sector - so why they are keeping 1Xtra, which commercial stations like Kiss are already providing is a mystery?

I can't say I listen to 6music or the Asian Network, but isn't this the sort of thing we pay £140 a year for?


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## tarannau (Mar 21, 2010)

1Xtra's nothing like Kiss to be fair. There again, Kiss is far removed from its dance music pirate roots as well


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 27, 2010)

Looks like loads of fun at Portland Place this morning.


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## ebay sex moomin (Mar 31, 2010)

Just found an interesting article by Miranda Sawyer, on the analogue to digital switchover. This bit is worrying- to me at least. She is talking with with Tim Davie, director of BBC audio and music- 


> The underlying idea behind the BBC's recent proposed changes to radio – including shutting down 6 Music and the Asian Network – was to make BBC radio more easy to understand and, weirdly, more digitally inclined. Essentially, Davie wants to concentrate on Radios 1 through 5, and then tag the other digital stations on to those. Radios 1 and 5 already have 1Xtra and 5 Live Sports Extra; Radio 7 will become 4 Extra and – though he won't be drawn to comment on this – it seems that he would like certain shows from 6 Music to become 2 Extra, only available in the evenings. There would be more linkage between the stations and their sidekicks, so that the digital versions are better promoted.


It does seem to me very likely that this will happen. Can't see the BBC trust making a decision against it myself, if they've got a streamlined plan, 'going forward' or whatever the jargon is these days.


> (By the way, 6 Music fans: Dickens insists that Absolute are putting in a fully costed proposal to the BBC Trust to buy the station lock-stock, if the BBC does stick to its decision to shut it.)



That isn't exactly reassuring- I never listen to commercial radio, cos it's full of crappy inane adverts. 

full article here


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## Part 2 (Apr 7, 2010)

Anyone mentioned the buy 'Joy Division Oven Gloves' campaign yet?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/apr/07/6-music-half-man-biscuit

It's 49p at Amazon


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## Ozric (Apr 7, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> Anyone mentioned the buy 'Joy Division Oven Gloves' campaign yet?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/apr/07/6-music-half-man-biscuit
> 
> It's 49p at Amazon


Damn it......and there's me throwing money away by spending 65p on play.com


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## ebay sex moomin (May 13, 2010)

latest- BBC 6 Music's audience rises 50%

"6 Music had an average weekly reach of 1.02 million listeners in the first three months of this year, up from 695,000 in the final three months of last year, according to official Rajar figures published today."

Good news  There's still a couple of weeks left to contact the BBC trust too, if you want to make your feelings known about the proposed closure. DO EEET! DO EEET!


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## Badgers (May 13, 2010)

I have been listening more. 
Guess you don't appreciate some things until they might be taken away from you.


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## Lord Camomile (May 13, 2010)

The really interesting figures are the hours - apparently not only are more people listening but they're listening for longer. The bump in listeners was probably to be expected, people curious after the coverage, but they're staying with it and _that's_ cool  

Whether or not it's enough to save it...


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## Lord Camomile (May 13, 2010)

Matt Deegan and Adam Bowie provide better analysis than me 



			
				Matt Deegan said:
			
		

> Well, one thing that certainly spiked people’s awareness of 6Music, was the threat to close it down! The result has increased its audience by 50%! What’s also interesting about the change is that normally when a station increases its reach, its average hours drop, as the newer people are lighter listeners compared to the older ones. 6Music’s managed to do the opposite, increasing its average hours from 5.5 to 7.7. It could be interesting to look at whether the threat of losing something has brought people closer to it and encouraged them to consume more (or, of course, whether there’s some over claiming of listening).


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## editor (Jul 5, 2010)

*BBC6 Music reprieved!*

It's official!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/7871232/BBC-6-Music-to-get-temporary-reprieve.html


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## ebay sex moomin (Jul 5, 2010)

The BBC Trust's review of the proposals has just come out- the case for closing 6music has been rejected

Asian Network will be closed. I'll add more details as I find them.


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## Ozric (Jul 5, 2010)

They know it makes sense!


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## ebay sex moomin (Jul 5, 2010)

Aha, bumped this about the same time ed was posting a new thread- please go there instead


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## innit (Jul 5, 2010)

good news, but only a temporary reprieve - still a bit hard on the people who work there


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## editor (Jul 5, 2010)

Yep, it's only a temporary reprieve, but an encouraging sign.

The Asian Network is for the chop though.


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## quimcunx (Jul 5, 2010)

That's good news.  Hope it becomes permanent.


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## editor (Jul 5, 2010)

ebay sex moomin said:


> Aha, bumped this about the same time ed was posting a new thread- please go there instead


  Actually, I was looking for this thread! I'll get merging.


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## London_Calling (Jul 5, 2010)

Total fakery from start to finish. Good to see Thompson and the BBC playing a better _real politik_ game but honestly . . . Alistair Campbell would have liked this piece of work.


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## stethoscope (Jul 5, 2010)

Good news  (for now at least)

I just don't understand the point of culling something that has been genuinely refreshing amongst so much blandness and identikit radio.


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## ebay sex moomin (Jul 5, 2010)

BBC news article here

Doesn't really say anything new, but clarifies the specific details of the Trust's report.


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## TitanSound (Jul 5, 2010)

stephj said:


> Good news  (for now at least)
> 
> I just don't understand the point of culling something that has been genuinely refreshing amongst so much blandness and identikit radio.



I don't think they intended to get rid of it at all. I reckon they put it forward for the chop knowing that the protest would be large.


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 5, 2010)

Whatever the ins and outs, certainly good news for now at least


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## Mapped (Jul 5, 2010)

That's good news  It seems as though the trust have said management can't touch it unless it's part of a wider review of digital radio output. 

Has anyone had an email from that 38 degrees lot. Apparently saving the station is all down to them  "Breaking news: we saved BBC 6 Music"


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## spliff (Jul 5, 2010)

That's great news


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## gabi (Jul 14, 2010)

Ewww. Just happened on 6music again after ages. we had to turn it off.

wheres the music? its just unfunny people talking.

why the fuck was it 'saved'?


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## editor (Jul 14, 2010)

gabi said:


> Ewww. Just happened on 6music again after ages. we had to turn it off.
> 
> wheres the music? its just unfunny people talking.
> 
> why the fuck was it 'saved'?


Shaun Keaveny is pretty awful. He insists on foisting his pathetic 'catchphrase' on listeners at the end of each session: "I kiss you on both cheeks."


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## Divisive Cotton (Jul 14, 2010)

quite. the daytime is awful...


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## gabi (Jul 14, 2010)

We've happened on 'Forces Radio' which is fucking bonkers. And MUCH better than 6 

(except for the occasional shout-outs from 4yo kids to their dads in afghanistan)


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 14, 2010)

Yup, daytime is not where 6Music's strengths lie.

Sundays however...


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## DotCommunist (Jul 14, 2010)

collings and herring plus him out of Pulp.

And him out of Pulp has some fucking quality taste in music.


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## gabi (Jul 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> collings and herring plus him out of Pulp.
> 
> And him out of Pulp has some fucking quality taste in music.



Why dont they put those guys on during the day?

At work we normally had NME radio on as it was commercial free and had absolutely no DJs, a winning formula, unless you want to make money i guess. it seems to have vanished.

6'music' seems to have less music than any other station on dab.


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 14, 2010)

NME Radio was truly excellent for ages. No ads or DJs, just great tracks - just like what the mid-nineties XFM used to be like.

Thing with 6 Music is it has dull DJs in the day. And its playlist gets a bit boring after a while.


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## editor (Oct 30, 2010)

Fucking hell: who the fuck is this supremely annoying twat who's on now?

*checks DAB player screen

Ah, right, Richard Bacon. Total fucking dick.


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## Divisive Cotton (Oct 30, 2010)

I like Richard Bacon


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## la ressistance (Oct 30, 2010)

bacons music is shite.


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## editor (Oct 30, 2010)

la ressistance said:


> bacons music is shite.


He keeps doing these REALLY funny 'comedy' phone calls. They're painfully bad. 

He's fucking awful.  

*turns over


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## colacubes (Oct 30, 2010)

I read somewhere that staff at 5Live have started calling him Partridge


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## yardbird (Oct 30, 2010)

nipsla said:


> I read somewhere that staff at 5Live have started calling him Partridge



love it


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## stethoscope (Oct 30, 2010)

editor said:


> Fucking hell: who the fuck is this supremely annoying twat who's on now?
> 
> *checks DAB player screen
> 
> Ah, right, Richard Bacon. Total fucking dick.



Glad I'm not the only one then!

Yeah, I find him totally unlistenable.


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## rosa (Oct 31, 2010)

editor said:


> He keeps doing these REALLY funny 'comedy' phone calls. They're painfully bad.
> 
> He's fucking awful.
> 
> *turns over


Yeah, i got as far as 'Today, at 4pm, Richard Bacon' before turning over. at 10am. They had to replace George Lamb somehow, i guess.


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