# London Gentrification



## Belushi (May 30, 2015)

I know it's a subject that get covered a lot on here but it's spread across various threads so I thought it would be useful to have one thread for articles etc on the ongoing social cleansing of the capital

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...on-property-market-boom-housing-tower-hamlets


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## DotCommunist (May 30, 2015)

wheres the end point here. Call me thick but someones got to sell the hotdogs, clean the bogs, drive the bus etc.

If you've moved all the low paid people out to the back of beyond, then what. Robots or some shit.


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## quimcunx (May 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> wheres the end point here. Call me thick but someones got to sell the hotdogs, clean the bogs, drive the bus etc.
> 
> If you've moved all the low paid people out to the back of beyond, then what. Robots or some shit.



You don't need to move them out.  They can't afford the rent + commute costs anyway.  More overcrowding is where it's at. 

And more and more jobs replaced by robots.


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## Orang Utan (May 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> wheres the end point here. Call me thick but someones got to sell the hotdogs, clean the bogs, drive the bus etc.
> 
> If you've moved all the low paid people out to the back of beyond, then what. Robots or some shit.


People living 12 to a room, which is already happening anyway


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## DownwardDog (May 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> wheres the end point here. Call me thick but someones got to sell the hotdogs, clean the bogs, drive the bus etc.
> 
> If you've moved all the low paid people out to the back of beyond, then what. Robots or some shit.



It'll just be more like the London of the 19th C. when people would sublet 12 sq. ft. of floorboard to complete strangers, etc.


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## Orang Utan (May 30, 2015)

I am reminded of a short story by JG Ballard called Billennium:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...6nuZj-92vxU3RNHLg&sig2=UkVzcDOwUKvf9P5ZDMrbVw


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## Belushi (May 30, 2015)

Some of the quotes from estate agents 



> I almost think the more deprived and edgy the better.





> The local indigenous people are still there – we still have a jellied eel stand – but they’re surrounded by shiny glass and steel.





> People like the edgy feel of east London, the “real London” feel: rich people living cheek by jowl with poor people. Parts of west London feel so safe and mundane.


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## DotCommunist (May 30, 2015)

I see what people are saying re just stuff em in like sardines and build ever higher etc. Recipe for to bring back the London Mob. It'll burn again! /doom


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## 19sixtysix (May 30, 2015)

quimcunx said:


> More overcrowding is where it's at.



SLUMS is where it's at Tory Slums!


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## Yossarian (May 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> wheres the end point here. Call me thick but someones got to sell the hotdogs, clean the bogs, drive the bus etc.
> 
> If you've moved all the low paid people out to the back of beyond, then what. Robots or some shit.



I guess the end point is that people who are going to clean toilets etc. for minimum wage or below will have hour-long bus commutes added to their lives - might even be government-subsidized buses because that'd be cheaper and easier than building affordable housing or asking big companies to pay a living wage.


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## Celyn (May 30, 2015)

> The local indigenous people are still there – we still have a jellied eel stand



Gosh, the natives sound ever so picturesque and quaint.


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## Thimble Queen (May 30, 2015)

Belushi reading that last quote makes me wonder if they get done over would they still feel the same way. There's a bit of hoping there too.


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## Belushi (May 31, 2015)

NYC rather than London, but an interesting piece in the New Yorker regarding 'High Rent Blight'

http://www.newyorker.com/business/c...any-shuttered-storefronts-in-the-west-village


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## Belushi (Jun 1, 2015)

http://londonist.com/2015/06/low-income-living-in-outer-london-isnt-even-an-option-any-more.php


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## Belushi (Jun 1, 2015)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...retending-grim-places-are-great-2013053070398


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> wheres the end point here. Call me thick but someones got to sell the hotdogs, clean the bogs, drive the bus etc.
> 
> If you've moved all the low paid people out to the back of beyond, then what. Robots or some shit.



Subterranean dormitories for workers; the non-working poor liquidated and used as fertiliser or pig-feed; The wealthy living in a greater London remodelled into a giant parkland with occasional grand houses staffed by dormitory-dwellers.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 1, 2015)

DownwardDog said:


> It'll just be more like the London of the 19th C. when people would sublet 12 sq. ft. of floorboard to complete strangers, etc.



And right-wing shit-suckers such as yourself will be in there, hiring out the square footage to the poor.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I see what people are saying re just stuff em in like sardines and build ever higher etc. Recipe for to bring back the London Mob. It'll burn again! /doom



I think you're right, except for "build higher". I think that future-London will be remodelled as a playground for the wealthy, without conspicuous pov housing. They'll try to turn us into Morlocks.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 1, 2015)

But basements are essential playgrounds for Eloi wealth creators. They are needed for swimming pools, underground cinemas, and gyms. The days when Morlocks could be coddled in expensive subterranean facilities are long gone. No, the dormitories will have to be out of town.


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## Belushi (Jun 2, 2015)

House prices continuing to increase http://londonist.com/2015/06/wereal...isham, Enfield Rising By More Than 16% A Year

Meanwhile Berlin attempts to cap rapidly rising rents http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/01/rent-cap-legislation-in-force-berlin-germany


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 2, 2015)

What knocks me out is the prices of outer London boroughs;http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34248321.html  half a million quid for a three bed semi close to Mogden sewage works. Utter madness.


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## Flavour (Jun 3, 2015)

rent until you die


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## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2015)

Flavour said:


> rent until you die


This is not necessarily a bad thing.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 3, 2015)

A question for all you Londoners - is there going to be a point with all this where you say "I've had enough" and move out? Or can you see a point in the future where you simply won't have a choice?

Or is the lure of London strong enough that you'll find a way to stay whatever the cost/bullshit?


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 3, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A question for all you Londoners - is there going to be a point with all this where you say "I've had enough" and move out? Or can you see a point in the future where you simply won't have a choice?
> 
> Or is the lure of London strong enough that you'll find a way to stay whatever the cost/bullshit?



It's a question to renters, rather than home owners, presumably?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 3, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's a question to renters, rather than home owners, presumably?


Primarily, yeah. But I guess the prospect of selling up and getting away from a rapidly changing London might appeal to some homeowners as well. Sell a 2 bed flat and get a 4 bed house with a garden etc


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## Belushi (Jun 3, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A question for all you Londoners - is there going to be a point with all this where you say "I've had enough" and move out? Or can you see a point in the future where you simply won't have a choice?
> 
> Or is the lure of London strong enough that you'll find a way to stay whatever the cost/bullshit?



If I were 22 again and looking to move to a big city I don't think I'd choose London, it's much tougher for young people to get established than it was when I moved here 20 years ago.

Fortunately I have a nice flat, job I enjoy etc and still enjoy living here - but I hate seeing so many people priced out and so many friends forced out of their neighbourhoods.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 3, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Primarily, yeah. But I guess the prospect of selling up and getting away from a rapidly changing London might appeal to some homeowners as well. Sell a 2 bed flat and get a 4 bed house with a garden etc



I've got a 4 bed house with a garden. And rising property prices mean that I'm more likely to keep adding bits to it (posh shed? basement dig-out?) so that my kids have somewhere to live in their twenties, than I am to move out. I wouldn't want to leave London until I was properly retired, and that's thirty years away.


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## BigMoaner (Jun 3, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Some of the quotes from estate agents



yuck!


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## BigMoaner (Jun 3, 2015)

ask these yuppie cunts if they will be sending their offspring to the local schools!

half of em will laugh in your face!

it's a playground. somewhere to swan around in and feel cool before fucking off for good.


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## ska invita (Jun 3, 2015)

Gentrification is the cultural part of it, but more accurately its about an asset bubble, which is tied to both local and international political events.

I think the bubble is very vulnerable - it really wouldn't take much to pop it, considering the continuously precarious state of the global finance system. Greece leaving the EU this year (and defaulting on loans) could do it perhaps....
Here's what happened in Japan





(Land Price Fluctuation for Commercial Property in Ginza 7-Chome)

London prices






A question of time surely....


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## BigMoaner (Jun 3, 2015)

that's why i love my area. almost gentrification resistant. selhurst, thornton heath, south norwood.  i would rather my house just meets inflation rather than it double in price and me get priced out to sodding edenbridge!


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## Belushi (Jun 3, 2015)

Yeah, I've been expecting this bubble to burst for about 15 years now..


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## BigMoaner (Jun 3, 2015)

it won't burst. the endless stream of people moving into london from here and overseas will prevent it....


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## ska invita (Jun 3, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> it won't burst. the endless stream of people moving into london from here and overseas will prevent it....


its more complex than that....loads of variables... interest rates going up would be another key one!


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## marty21 (Jun 3, 2015)

Belushi said:


> If I were 22 again and looking to move to a big city I don't think I'd choose London, it's much tougher for young people to get established than it was when I moved here 20 years ago.
> 
> Fortunately I have a nice flat, job I enjoy etc and still enjoy living here - but I hate seeing so many people priced out and so many friends forced out of their neighbourhoods.


 pretty much this ^^^ I moved to London when I was 23, and for the first 5 or 6 years rented in house shares within zone 2 and never paid more than £55 a week for a room - I wouldn't move here now if I was to turn 23 again


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## BigMoaner (Jun 3, 2015)

still relative bargins to be had just down the road from areas which yuppies fight over

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34772256.html


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 3, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> still relative bargins to be had just down the road from areas which yuppies fight over
> 
> http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34772256.html


Still an utterly mental price though.


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## BigMoaner (Jun 3, 2015)

as said, if people weren't so narrow minded about living in trendy areas, the cheap decent property is there: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34758705.html


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## BigMoaner (Jun 3, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Still an utterly mental price though.


for a decent, large, clean, well kept house in Zone 4? not sure about that


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 3, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> for a decent, large, clean, well kept house in Zone 4? not sure about that


Round here it would be half that. Which is my point - when something that is still that expensive and out of reach for almost everyone is viewed as a bargain. It's mental.


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## sim667 (Jun 3, 2015)

Its not much better in leafy surrey to be fair. I've got a lot of friends who live this way and earn in the 22k to 26k bracket in central london, and by the time they've paid rent, bills, and for a £3k commute every, there's no chance they'll ever be able to save up deposits. The whole thing is just getting out of hand.... London and Surrey will just end up as a retirement community at this rate.


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## Plumdaff (Jun 3, 2015)

Our government is doing everything it can to keep the asset bubble going. It's the only reason anyone in the UK has a 'feel good factor' economically, however false.

If you're a homeowner, especially in the S East, with a 10 year old (or more) mortgage you probably haven't too bad a time of it since 2008, in fact you probably feel richer than you did then. That includes nearly every MP and all the people they're interested in getting votes from. The asset bubble bursting would destroy that feeling of security and would destroy financially anyone who has bought since 2008 at least in the short term. It will happen, it has to eventually, but it won't happen without a considerable fight from whomever is in power. Don't count on it being soon.


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## ska invita (Jun 3, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Our government is doing everything it can to keep the asset bubble going. It's the only reason anyone in the UK has a 'feel good factor' economically, however false.
> 
> If you're a homeowner, especially in the S East, with a 10 year old (or more) mortgage you probably haven't too bad a time of it since 2008, in fact you probably feel richer than you did then. That includes nearly every MP and all the people they're interested in getting votes from. The asset bubble bursting would destroy that feeling of security and would destroy financially anyone who has bought since 2008 at least in the short term. It will happen, it has to eventually, but it won't happen without a considerable fight from whomever is in power. Don't count on it being soon.


agree 100% - the signs are that there has been a deliberate attempt to keep inflating - but as to "don't count on it being soon", yes they'l keep on inflating, but when causes the pop will more likely be something out of the UK governments control...and that can happen at any time really....but yeah, as much as they can have an influence they don't want it any other way....


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## marty21 (Jun 3, 2015)

If and when the bubble bursts there are going to be a lot of problems - I remember the last time it happened, in the late 80s maybe? When negative equity was discussed everywhere - and the prices didn't get back to those levels for about 10 years or so


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 3, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Yeah, I've been expecting this bubble to burst for about 15 years now..



Yep. Certainly there've been posts just like the one on this page ever since I've been posting here (I like the really confident ones you get sometime - 'the bubble will definitely burst in October'). 

The question really is how far down it would go if it does burst. London property isn't like Tulips or something like that - there clearly is a massive shortfall in supply even if there are bubble elements to the price as well. Even with a price fall I can't see how it would collapse to the point houses are affordable again.


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## ska invita (Jun 3, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yep. Certainly there've been posts just like the one on this page ever since I've been posting here (I like the really confident ones you get sometime - 'the bubble will definitely burst in October').
> 
> The question really is how far down it would go if it does burst. London property isn't like Tulips or something like that - there clearly is a massive shortfall in supply even if there are bubble elements to the price as well. Even with a price fall I can't see how it would collapse to the point houses are affordable again.


when people lose their houses as they cant make payments and the entire economy collapses things can change very quickly....people want to come to London because of its relative economic standing - if that goes they wont.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 3, 2015)

ska invita said:


> when people lose their houses as they cant make payments and the entire economy collapses things can change very quickly....people want to come to London because of its relative economic standing - if that goes they wont.



OK sure, if the entire economy collapses who knows what will happen. We could all be hunting urban foxes for food or something. And that's probably not as unlikely as we'd hope tbh. I'd say personally though that that's a bit beyond discussions of London property bubbles.


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## ska invita (Jun 3, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> OK sure, if the entire economy collapses who knows what will happen. We could all be hunting urban foxes for food or something. And that's probably not as unlikely as we'd hope tbh. I'd say personally though that that's a bid beyond discussions of London property bubbles.


but prices can come down


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 3, 2015)

ska invita said:


> but prices can come down



Yes - like I say there's definitely a bubble element. My question is how much of the increase in prices that accounts for. 

If you look at that graph prices trebled in three years, for all it's insanity London hasn't got anywhere near that.


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## Belushi (Jun 3, 2015)

ska invita said:


> but prices can come down



Sure, I just wouldn't pin any hopes on it. People have been waving that Japan chart around on sites like housepricecrash for donkeys years now.


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## ska invita (Jun 3, 2015)

"Under this Government, Britain will not return to the boom and bust of the past."


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 3, 2015)

ska invita said:


> "Under this Government, Britain will not return to the boom and bust of the past."



That's the thing though isn't it - the booms and busts keep happening but London house prices seem almost immune. They went down somewhat in 2007/8 but only a tiny amount given the scale of the crash in everything else.

I'm not saying it can't happen but I don't think anyone can confidently predict it.


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## Plumdaff (Jun 3, 2015)

If the bubble were to burst, I think we'd still be looking at houses being expensive, especially in London. We haven't been building any - I'd argue that's been deliberate policy -  but it has worked in keeping supply low and demand high. I think we'd be looking at going from crazy to just daft with a return to geuninely affordable housing probably taking a generation or so of a slow return to the historical mean. It's didn't get this stupid overnight, it took thirty years.

The sad thing is to consider the human cost of all of this.


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## Belushi (Jun 3, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> The sad thing is to consider the human cost of all of this.



Aint that the truth. The country is incredibly unbalanced but its going to take decades to fix.


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## ska invita (Jun 3, 2015)

On another note there is the issue of building high - I think this is where new building is going to happen - toblerone3 was saying the other day that brownfield building basically means high rise building....

Personally I'd rather that than greenfield sprawl... what have the Tories lined up on greenfield building?


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## marty21 (Jun 3, 2015)

ska invita said:


> On another note there is the issue of building high - I think this is where new building is going to happen - toblerone3 was saying the other day that brownfield building basically means high rise building....
> 
> Personally I'd rather that than greenfield sprawl... what have the Tories lined up on greenfield building?


 can't imagine the Tories going all out for greenfield building since most of their support is in areas with lots of err... green fields -


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## Plumdaff (Jun 3, 2015)

marty21 said:


> can't imagine the Tories going all out for greenfield building since most of their support is in areas with lots of err... green fields -



Yep. The Shires are very blue and very unkeen on other people (especially poorer people) living in their commuter villages.


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## marty21 (Jun 3, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Yep. The Shires are very blue and very unkeen on other people (especially poorer people) living in their commuter villages.


And not voting tory


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## davesgcr (Jun 3, 2015)

Population and job increases obviously fuel the madness - along with (and I am not being too Tory I hope - as I hate them) - issues with social housing not being social housing but dollops of money given to private landlors on what should be "owned" social housing.

When I were a lad - you could get council housing in say Camden as a London arrival from the wilds - my friends did it - and it was OK (cos population was down and an ageing indigenous population) - so you could make a start and hopefully in a few years make the first steps - to quot some good friends of mine - lived in a Camden Tower block for 2/ 3 years (after renting a shithole in Queens Park - then a middling / slumbering area) - bought a flat in said area for about £36K in 1982 - and gradually moved on up via the back end of Chiswick . slightly ropey Shepherds Bush and now live in leafy Greenwich Park. Worked hard and - and had some luck.

My nephew is lodging with us - (free) his first London job is £25K  (from Hereford - so a bit of a shock to him)  - has a room planned near Oval soon for over £700 a month. How do we get the bright young , able new generation into London.? - half my nephews and nieces would love to come for a few years..?


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## Plumdaff (Jun 3, 2015)

They'll still come, it's where the jobs and opportunities are, but they'll live in overcrowded rented accommodation, moving further out to get a rented place by themselves as they get older, or leave when they hit their 30s. Lots of people aren't leaving London now to cash in their property asset and buy a large house elsewhere as the myth often goes, they're leaving to rent somewhere slightly more affordable.


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## toblerone3 (Jun 3, 2015)

ska invita said:


> On another note there is the issue of building high - I think this is where new building is going to happen - toblerone3 was saying the other day that brownfield building basically means high rise building....
> 
> Personally I'd rather that than greenfield sprawl... what have the Tories lined up on greenfield building?



Yep big residential skyscrapers in pre-app stage in Walthamstow High Street and Blackhorse Road.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jun 3, 2015)

I can't help thinking it's not going to be possible for the vermin to keep inflating the bubble for the next 5 years.  (although people were predicting a crash any time soon from about 2002)

Think there will be a crash at some point in the next year or two, which will get blamed on Europe / immigrants / the labour government / the lib-dem bit of the coalition government / any combination thereof, followed by an artificial 'recovery' in time for the 2020 election...

There's money to be made out of boom and bust if you sell just before the crash and have the money to hand to buy during the slump, which the vermin and their chums will.

Blargh.


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## oryx (Jun 3, 2015)

davesgcr said:


> When I were a lad - you could get council housing in say Camden as a London arrival from the wilds - my friends did it - and it was OK (cos population was down and an ageing indigenous population) - so you could make a start and hopefully in a few years make the first steps - to quot some good friends of mine - lived in a Camden Tower block for 2/ 3 years (after renting a shithole in Queens Park - then a middling / slumbering area) - bought a flat in said area for about £36K in 1982 - and gradually moved on up via the back end of Chiswick . slightly ropey Shepherds Bush and now live in leafy Greenwich Park. Worked hard and - and had some luck.
> 
> My nephew is lodging with us - (free) his first London job is £25K  (from Hereford - so a bit of a shock to him)  - has a room planned near Oval soon for over £700 a month. How do we get the bright young , able new generation into London.? - half my nephews and nieces would love to come for a few years..?



When I moved to London back in the 80s young people (and probably not-so-young as well) had many more cheap and cheerful choices such as shortlife, squatting, and basic shared accommodation at a reasonable rent (no central heating, crap furniture, ancient bathroom etc.) as well as hard-to-let council flats.

Those options have now all gone. Shortlife has mainly been replaced by property guardianship, squatting in residential property is criminalised, private sector rented is often 'luxury' style (wifi and big TV) with a rent to match, and what was once hard-to-let (fourth floor with no lift, twentieth floor of tower block etc.) is now used for homeless families.


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## BigMoaner (Jun 4, 2015)

when was the last time a mondeo man was seen in london?

1972?


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## Orang Utan (Jun 4, 2015)

What's a mondeo man?


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## SE25 (Jun 5, 2015)

I'm almost interested in what a gentrified South Norwood would be like. I just can't imagine it which is probably why I'll stay here (or close) for a while

hope I'm never priced out of my home. I feel for those who have been.


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## Ponyutd (Jun 5, 2015)

The Gentry have been in London for ages


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## Belushi (Jun 6, 2015)

A commune facing eviction in Islington

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jun/06/commune-members-face-eviction


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## RubyToogood (Jun 8, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> as said, if people weren't so narrow minded about living in trendy areas, the cheap decent property is there: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-34758705.html


I went through Thornton Heath the other day and there was something different about the residential street I was on. Then it dawned on me, I was on a street with NO estate agents boards up at all.


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## BigMoaner (Jun 8, 2015)

SE25 said:


> I'm almost interested in what a gentrified South Norwood would be like. I just can't imagine it which is probably why I'll stay here (or close) for a while
> 
> hope I'm never priced out of my home. I feel for those who have been.


i've gone from wanting my little corner of SE25 (the thornton heath, grange road end) to be "gentrified" but then, after living here a year or so, actually ditching the idea. there is such a strong sense of community and so many normal families with fairly normal paying jobs (carpenters, clerks, elecys, postmen, bus drivers) - why turn it into just another richman's ghetto?


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## SE25 (Jun 8, 2015)

A good coffee shop would be nice

Seriously, they can all get to fuck


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## Treacle Toes (Jun 17, 2015)

June 16, 2015 6:00 pm

*The gentrification and petrification of London’s heart*
Edwin Heathcote

Placing council housing in prime areas has elements of social engineering

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/90c39884-140c-11e5-9bc5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3dJ3TvByP


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## Artaxerxes (Jun 17, 2015)

Care to copy/paste outside the paywall?


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## Treacle Toes (Jun 17, 2015)

I haven't paid! 

But sure...



> Paris’s social housing is abundant. But it is around the edge, or “outside the Périphérique”, lending an impression of exclusion. The cities of former eastern bloc nations are ringed by Soviet-designed towers. But London and New York, Hong Kong and Singapore — cities with booming property markets and thriving economies — still feature big social housing estates at their hearts. Precisely that social mix makes for a diverse and successful city, the integration bringing the wealthy and the poor into proximity so reducing the sense of urban alienation and isolation. A gentrified centre might be good for tourists but does not make an adaptable city. It petrifies.
> 
> Last week Brandon Lewis, UK housing minister, called for the demolition of London’s council estates and their replacement with denser mixed developments as a response to the city’s housing crisis. He echoes a proposal by Labour peer Lord Adonis, who this year said that, while the capital’s population now matches its 1939 high of more than 8m, its centre is far less dense.
> 
> ...


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## Belushi (Jun 25, 2015)

We're going to be seeing a lot more of this kind of thing in future http://www.theguardian.com/society/...sing-raid-26-living-three-bedroom-east-london


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## marty21 (Jun 25, 2015)

Rutita1 said:


> I haven't paid!
> 
> But sure...


 I've worked in social housing for about 20 years - mostly in Central London boroughs - there are very few areas without an element of Social Housing and one of the few positives of high London prices is that it makes it more difficult for tenants in these areas to exercise their Right To Buy - if you are in a block in Kensington, even the £100k discount is not going to make it affordable to most people. The Tories would have to basically give the flats away to make them affordable (and I'm sure there is some Tory Policy wonk considering this right now )

I like the mix of tenures in areas , clearly something the Tories don't like, and it smells of gerrymandering if they want to reduce social housing in an area and replace it with owner occupiers


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## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2015)

marty21 said:


> I've worked in social housing for about 20 years - mostly in Central London boroughs - there are very few areas without an element of Social Housing and one of the few positives of high London prices is that it makes it more difficult for tenants in these areas to exercise their Right To Buy - if you are in a block in Kensington, even the £100k discount is not going to make it affordable to most people. The Tories would have to basically give the flats away to make them affordable (and I'm sure there is some Tory Policy wonk considering this right now )
> 
> I like the mix of tenures in areas , clearly something the Tories don't like, and it smells of gerrymandering if they want to reduce social housing in an area and replace it with owner occupiers


yes. but what if they don't just want to do it in an area of london but across london?


----------



## marty21 (Jun 25, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yes. but what if they don't just want to do it in an area of london but across london?


 Demolishing and rebuilding all the estates in London - that is an enormous job - they''d get opposition from all the councils about that I'd have thought - it takes an age to demolish a estate and rebuild it - I was working on one small scheme a few years ago - demolishing 2 small blocks and an industrial estate - that has taken about 4 years so far - and won't be finished for another 6 months or so. There is all the moving tenants out and rehousing them for a start - that can take an age. The redevelopment Woodberry Down up in Manor House has been going on for decades, I was involved with it in 2003 and it is still not completed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2015)

marty21 said:


> Demolishing and rebuilding all the estates in London - that is an enormous job - they''d get opposition from all the councils about that I'd have thought - it takes an age to demolish a estate and rebuild it - I was working on one small scheme a few years ago - demolishing 2 small blocks and an industrial estate - that has taken about 4 years so far - and won't be finished for another 6 months or so. There is all the moving tenants out and rehousing them for a start - that can take an age. The redevelopment Woodberry Down up in Manor House has been going on for decades, I was involved with it in 2003 and it is still not completed.


i don't think you'd need a ton of demolition, people are being forced out of london by other means and the people replacing them are, in the auld euphemism, 'well-heeled'


----------



## marty21 (Jun 25, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think you'd need a ton of demolition, people are being forced out of london by other means and the people replacing them are, in the auld euphemism, 'well-heeled'


 I think I'd prefer to take on those homes in London with massive gardens - if you want a massive garden - move out of London - we could build on those - Buckingham Palace has a massive garden - and they have to move out anyway to get their works done - whilst Maj is slumming it in her temporary castle - we could build a few estates in the grounds of Buckingham Palace She'd have to have smaller garden parties - we are all in it together maj


----------



## Belushi (Jun 25, 2015)

Posted this on the Heygate Estate thread but it deserves to go here as well; a long account from the Guardian on how developers get around local authority requirements for affordable housing http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...social-housing-regeneration-oliver-wainwright


----------



## Belushi (Jun 28, 2015)

The city that ate itself

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/28/london-the-city-that-ate-itself-rowan-moore


----------



## Greebo (Jun 28, 2015)

marty21 said:


> Demolishing and rebuilding all the estates in London - that is an enormous job - they''d get opposition from all the councils about that I'd have thought <snip>


You forget that you're a halfway rational human being, whereas councils can't be relied upon to either think or behave like you.

Lambeth council at least seems to have fully embraced the idea.  As far as they're concerned, rehousing during the work isn't a problem as the demolition and rebuilding can be done piecemeal, 'decanting' people into the newly completed bit before you empty their homes to demolish and rebuild.  Of course, this doesn't solve the question of where you move the first blockful of people, but we really must stop being boringly practical and crashing their dreams.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 30, 2015)

There's been a bit of a flurry of articles by middle class journo's flouncing from London the past week https://i-d.vice.com/en_gb/article/london-its-over-and-its-not-me-its-you


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 1, 2015)

Belushi said:


> There's been a bit of a flurry of articles by middle class journo's flouncing from London the past week https://i-d.vice.com/en_gb/article/london-its-over-and-its-not-me-its-you



Hear that trickling sound? It's my heart bleeding for them, and very definitely not me pissing myself laughing with _schadenfreude_.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 1, 2015)

*Hackney Council*
Yesterday at 13:00 ·
Fancy some Twitter debate about housing regeneration in Hackney? Use the hashtags ‪#‎AskPhil‬ and ‪#‎HousingRegenQs‬ for Cllr Philip Glanville, Cabinet Member for Housing, on 7 July, 12-1pm


----------



## marty21 (Jul 1, 2015)

Rutita1 said:


> *Hackney Council*
> Yesterday at 13:00 ·
> Fancy some Twitter debate about housing regeneration in Hackney? Use the hashtags ‪#‎AskPhil‬ and ‪#‎HousingRegenQs‬ for Cllr Philip Glanville, Cabinet Member for Housing, on 7 July, 12-1pm


 that could all go a bit pear shaped for them


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 1, 2015)

marty21 said:


> that could all go a bit pear shaped for them



Just posting that on facebook hasn't really gone their way...


----------



## marty21 (Jul 1, 2015)

Belushi said:


> There's been a bit of a flurry of articles by middle class journo's flouncing from London the past week https://i-d.vice.com/en_gb/article/london-its-over-and-its-not-me-its-you


 London without middle class journos doesn't sound so bad


----------



## scifisam (Jul 1, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A question for all you Londoners - is there going to be a point with all this where you say "I've had enough" and move out? Or can you see a point in the future where you simply won't have a choice?
> 
> Or is the lure of London strong enough that you'll find a way to stay whatever the cost/bullshit?



For me two practical things keep me here - work and public transport. I know both exist in other places but not to the level I need, esp. public transport. I can't really walk, so getting to the bus stop is an arse, but then at least I usually only have to wait a few minutes. And I will never be able to drive, and neither will my daughter (who is unlikely to be able to live independently) so I have two people to think of. 

The few other places that have decent public transport are also expensive, though not as much as London because nowhere is.

We're in social housing. There is still a lot of social housing in London. That's one of the things the Tories are trying to stop.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 1, 2015)

* Hackney: A place for everyone? *
*Overview*
*Tell us your stories*

There has been a lot of change in Hackney over the last 10 to 15 years, so we would like to hear from local residents about what this means for them. 

The Council's Chief Executive, Tim Shields said:

_“So much has changed in Hackney in recent years. We want to give local people the chance to share their thoughts and feelings about the change. Much of the change has been positive, but Hackney faces many challenges: an affordable housing crisis, a growing population, and massive central government cuts to local public service budgets”. _

We would like to capture a variety of personal stories and circumstances to improve our understanding of the impact on local residents.

_

_

https://consultation.hackney.gov.uk/communications-and-consultation/hackney-a-place-for-everyone


----------



## Belushi (Jul 1, 2015)

How Paris is attempting to tackle its housing shortage http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/01/paris-london-skyscrapers-homes-triangle-tower


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 1, 2015)

marty21 said:


> London without middle class journos doesn't sound so bad



We should at least keep _Guardian/Observer_ journos in London.
Preferably fastened by their entrails to park railings.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 1, 2015)

Rutita1 said:


> * Hackney: A place for everyone? *
> *Overview*
> *Tell us your stories*
> 
> ...


presumably a successor project to the cultural olympiad "mappung the change" project run by the museum.


----------



## Belushi (Jul 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> There's been a bit of a flurry of articles by middle class journo's flouncing from London the past week https://i-d.vice.com/en_gb/article/london-its-over-and-its-not-me-its-you



Hadley Freeman addresses this trend http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/02/london-new-york-capital


----------



## Belushi (Jul 4, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/04/leave-london-never-ill-be-staying-and-fighting-for-it


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 4, 2015)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/is-it-time-you-left-london#.xv45QJ05e


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 4, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/is-it-time-you-left-london#.xv45QJ05e



Long since and I'm well aware of it without taking a quiz.

The tap water pop-up bar is news to me though, what the fuck?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 4, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> The tap water pop-up bar is news to me though, what the fuck?



It was an RNLI fundraising thing - article here


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 4, 2015)

Ah thats not so bad then, I approve of anything for the RNLI


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 4, 2015)

Belushi said:


> There's been a bit of a flurry of articles by middle class journo's flouncing from London the past week https://i-d.vice.com/en_gb/article/london-its-over-and-its-not-me-its-you



Think this one is my favorite.

https://samkriss.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/why-youre-not-leaving-london/


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 4, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/is-it-time-you-left-london#.xv45QJ05e



That's shit IMO. I manage to go through my life living in London almost totally unaware of all of that stuff, except for being surrounded by people banging on and on and on at very tedious length about how terrible it is and how you can't move for it. It just seems like a distraction from the real issues to me.


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Jul 5, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Ah thats not so bad then, I approve of anything for the RNLI


 You are TobyJug and I claim my five pounds!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2015)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> You are TobyJug and I claim my five pounds!



You have been away a long time! The Jugster has been banned, and has returned several times since he had the username "tobyjug".


----------



## panpete (Jul 7, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I am reminded of a short story by JG Ballard called Billennium:
> https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=vbxpVbCmAYXdUcC0gZAP&url=ftp://cpc1-seac23-2-0-cust35.7-2.cable.virginm.net/shares/USB_Storage/Media/Books/Non-Medical/J.%20G.%20Ballard/J.%20G.%20Ballard%20-%20Billennium.pdf&ved=0CDIQFjAF&usg=AFQjCNEK9rBUSJIPb6nuZj-92vxU3RNHLg&sig2=UkVzcDOwUKvf9P5ZDMrbVw


I like ballard, but I couldn't read all that as it started to depress me, even though it is fiction.
My worst nightmare is being stuck with people and no privacy, stems from sharing a bed with sister and bedroom with two sisters.
Its shows how good Ballard is though, if he can depress me after reading a few paras


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2015)

panpete said:


> I like ballard, but I couldn't read all that as it started to depress me, even though it is fiction.
> My worst nightmare is being stuck with people and no privacy, stems from sharing a bed with sister and bedroom with two sisters.
> Its shows how good Ballard is though, if he can depress me after reading a few paras


that's nothing, jane austen can depress me if i just see a copy of _pride and prejudice _ or _persuasion_


----------



## panpete (Jul 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> that's nothing, jane austen can depress me if i just see a copy of _pride and prejudice _ or _persuasion_


I've never had the attention span to read these novels but I wish I did.
I have got a taste of Kafka, and I think those who make the legislations also read Kafka hahahhahh


----------



## Greebo (Jul 7, 2015)

panpete said:


> I've never had the attention span to read these novels but I wish I did. <snip>


Try the more recent television and film adaptations, not the ones done in the 1970s and 80s.  They don't completely repeat everything in the books, but they might give you some idea of what happens in them - including all the class stuff and the banter.


----------



## Belushi (Jul 9, 2015)

What you could get elsewhere..

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/how-flipping-much?bffbuk&utm_term=4ldqphz#.odEjwVANLV


----------



## cuppa tee (Jul 9, 2015)

and there's more.........
http://www.buzzfeed.com/sophiegadd/21-reasons-london-just-needs-to-stop#.nuA3m1o9OK


----------



## Belushi (Jul 10, 2015)

Early days but Berlins rent control laws appear to be bringing down costs

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015...rent-control-laws-are-already-working/398087/


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 16, 2015)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-big-cities-got-too-expensive-for-millennials
Fucking hell, in America, they think rent is not affordable if it's more than 30% of your income, but in England, tenants spend 50%:
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/16/tenants-in-england-spend-half-their-pay-on-rent
In London, I would have to spend about 70% of my income if I lived alone.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 16, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Fucking hell, in America, they think rent is not affordable if it's more than 30% of your income, but in England, tenants spend 50%:
> http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/16/tenants-in-england-spend-half-their-pay-on-rent
> In London, I would have to spend about 70% of my income if I lived alone.



Until very recently that was the affordability level we used here too. It's a symptom of the madness in this bubble that people spending 40 to 50 % of their income on housing are doing ok.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Fucking hell, in America, they think rent is not affordable if it's more than 30% of your income, but in England, tenants spend 50%:
> http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/16/tenants-in-england-spend-half-their-pay-on-rent
> In London, I would have to spend about 70% of my income if I lived alone.


from 2013: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/may/16/low-income-families-housing-costs



> At least 1.3m families in England on lower incomes have to spend more than a third of their net income on housing, largely due to a shortage of private rented sector housing, according to a new report from the Resolution Foundation.
> 
> The research shows how the combination of the intractable housing market and the earnings squeeze has made housing costs a key source of pressure on living standards.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 16, 2015)

oops, see re-edit, i didn't link to the article about American rent: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-big-cities-got-too-expensive-for-millennials


----------



## Belushi (Jul 17, 2015)

Ugh

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/london-ren...-girl-who-wants-stay-rent-free-zone-1-1511220


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Ugh
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/london-ren...-girl-who-wants-stay-rent-free-zone-1-1511220


----------



## oryx (Jul 18, 2015)

and 'Ugh' very much indeed - going back to the days of Rachman.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 19, 2015)




----------



## stethoscope (Jul 19, 2015)




----------



## BigMoaner (Jul 21, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Ugh
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/london-ren...-girl-who-wants-stay-rent-free-zone-1-1511220


christ on a bike.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 21, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Ugh
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/london-ren...-girl-who-wants-stay-rent-free-zone-1-1511220



I feel grubby just reading that.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jul 21, 2015)

The story continues....although this is usual stuff from Southwark Council:

Neo Bankside


----------



## Belushi (Jul 22, 2015)

> a global symbol of opulence ... the ultimate in luxury, the ultimate in Versace



http://www.theguardian.com/society/...ry-housing-venture-where-a-car-space-is-50000


----------



## Belushi (Jul 25, 2015)

oh do fuck off

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...reaking-bad-cocktails-and-david-lynch-dinners


----------



## Belushi (Jul 28, 2015)

It's cheaper to commute from Spain :thumbs :

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...ch-day-than-rent-in-camden-town-10420750.html


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 28, 2015)

Belushi said:


> It's cheaper to commute from Spain :thumbs :
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...ch-day-than-rent-in-camden-town-10420750.html


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 28, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> I feel grubby just reading that.


they want a live in sex worker basically. Soliciting isn't legal now is it? worlds gone mad.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 24, 2015)

Affordable housing? The capitals first million pound shared ownership flat has gone on sale in Hackney

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/24/affordable-shared-ownership-flat-hackney-1m


----------



## Sue (Aug 24, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Affordable housing? The capitals first million pound shared ownership flat has gone on sale in Hackney
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/24/affordable-shared-ownership-flat-hackney-1m



Shows how much bollocks the whole 'affordable' thing has always been. Without some link to average wages, all it seems to mean is 'still ridiculously priced but slightly less expensive than other flats in the development'. FFS.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 25, 2015)

For the ultimate in swank and to stop any undesireables using it, we will build our pool 10 stories up like, complete with views of Battersea Power Station and the Thames


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

hash tag said:


> For the ultimate in swank and to stop any undesireables using it, we will build our pool 10 stories up like, complete with views of Battersea Power Station and the Thames







when the bough breaks the cradle will fall and down will come cradle, baby and all.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 25, 2015)

hash tag said:


> For the ultimate in swank and to stop any undesireables using it, we will build our pool 10 stories up like, complete with views of Battersea Power Station and the Thames



A tenner to the first person to leave a turd in the thing, or drown a pigeon.


----------



## marty21 (Aug 25, 2015)

Sue said:


> Shows how much bollocks the whole 'affordable' thing has always been. Without some link to average wages, all it seems to mean is 'still ridiculously priced but slightly less expensive than other flats in the development'. FFS.


And the HA had the nerve to still call it affordable housing


----------



## Sue (Aug 25, 2015)

'One of the largest housing associations in the UK last week announced it would no longer build social housing. Instead, its chief executive said, it will only build homes for sale, for rent at full market rates or for shared ownership.

Furthermore, Genesis housing association, which owns and manages about 33,000 homes around London and the south-east, will consider selling or raising the rents on its existing social homes once they become vacant'

'....It is sad that a sector that was created by social housing giants to challenge government policies on homelessness and poor housing conditions now seeks to mirror the current government’s backward steps into a housing policy more suited to the 19th century than the 21st. The chief executive of Genesis reportedly said that housing low-income families “won’t be my problem”. I wonder what those who founded Genesis almost 50 years ago would say to that.'

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-...ssociation-no-longer-build-homes-poor-genesis


----------



## Belushi (Sep 17, 2015)

This is interesting, hopefully they're successful with their bid

London residents to bid for Mount Pleasant site to stop £1bn development


----------



## marty21 (Sep 17, 2015)

Sue said:


> 'One of the largest housing associations in the UK last week announced it would no longer build social housing. Instead, its chief executive said, it will only build homes for sale, for rent at full market rates or for shared ownership.
> 
> Furthermore, Genesis housing association, which owns and manages about 33,000 homes around London and the south-east, will consider selling or raising the rents on its existing social homes once they become vacant'
> 
> ...


I worked for them in the 90s when they were Paddington Churches , very sad to see how they have changed , I left just as they were starting to go corporate


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Sep 17, 2015)

Belushi said:


> This is interesting, hopefully they're successful with their bid
> 
> London residents to bid for Mount Pleasant site to stop £1bn development


A glimmer of hope from Mount Pleasant. Bojo calling them 'bourgeois nimbies', what a kunt he really is.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 17, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> A tenner to the first person to leave a turd in the thing, or drown a pigeon.



Mark Oaten will pay 500 to stand underneath and watch someone do it.


----------



## Belushi (Sep 24, 2015)

Hopefully we haven't reached this stage yet..

In a Display of ‘Peak Caucasity,’ a White Man Claims He’s the Reason Another White Man Can Live in Brooklyn, NY


----------



## Belushi (Oct 11, 2015)

Back to the Seventies..

Why the London property market is heading back to the 1970s


----------



## superfly101 (Oct 11, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Back to the Seventies..


----------



## tim (Oct 11, 2015)

superfly101 said:


> [/



In reality a bit more like this


----------



## tim (Oct 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> when the bough breaks the cradle will fall and down will come cradle, baby and all.




I can't say that I find the idea of being drowned in a deluge of non-doms too appealing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 11, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Back to the Seventies..
> 
> Why the London property market is heading back to the 1970s


by taking only census data for 1970s housing they miss out the large increase in the socially housed obvious between 1971 and 1981.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 11, 2015)

tim said:


> I can't say that I find the idea of being drowned in a deluge of non-doms too appealing.


don't stand under the pool then.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 22, 2015)

Developers at London's property fair are plotting how to demolish our homes


----------



## marty21 (Oct 22, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Developers at London's property fair are plotting how to demolish our homes


 


> Sessions at the conference include “London – from social housing to super prime”, “Are you sitting on an untapped goldmine?”


 
says it all really   They hate that there is still plenty of Social Housing in London - even in the rich bits like Chelsea,Kensington, and Westminster.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 22, 2015)

More on MIPIM 'It's an insult': Chinese property developers race to the top of London’s skyline


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 29, 2015)

Check out this property for sale on PrimeLocation!


----------



## oryx (Oct 29, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> Check out this property for sale on PrimeLocation!



Holy shit! I never thought I would live to see the day when a two-bedroomed flat in Nine Elms was £11 million.

I would want a reduction on the price, maybe to a cool ten million, for the 'Indoor/Outdoor Swimming *Poo'* as per the advert.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Oct 30, 2015)

Looks like a grim place to live right now. All the green space they're getting for the whole area is this new 'Linear Park' which might end up a bit like the QE Olympic park i.e. not very park like. I suspect the whole area will end up a bit like the Battersea riverside developments......dead & soulless.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 30, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> Check out this property for sale on PrimeLocation!


I don't know what I expected for 11m quid but I guess it wasn't that. 

It's just an ordinary and not very large or upmarket flat.

The super rich are getting ripped off proper [emoji41]


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 30, 2015)

That has to be a decimal point error.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 30, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> That has to be a decimal point error.



fraid not.......

price per square foot=£15667
size of flat = 750 sq ft


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 30, 2015)

Dan U said:


> I don't know what I expected for 11m quid but I guess it wasn't that.
> 
> It's just an ordinary and not very large or upmarket flat.
> 
> The super rich are getting ripped off proper [emoji41]


yeh but they're so super rich that they don't care.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 30, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> fraid not.......
> 
> price per square foot=£15667
> size of flat = 750 sq ft



Someone has got the price wrong and then done a square footage calculation which incorporates the error.

Do a search for flats in London in the £8m to £10m range. That's penthouse category. Private roof terraces, double height rooms, multiple bedrooms and certainly not crappy little kitchens at the end of weird triangular lounges. No, that's a £1m flat.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 30, 2015)

Yeah, here it is at the right price. It still clicks through despite saying error http://www.right move.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-36299877.html

Rightmove - Error


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 30, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Yeah, here it is at the right price.
> 
> Rightmove - Error


no super rich person would touch a flat that cost a mere £1m.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 30, 2015)

even over £1m for that is fucking madness.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 30, 2015)

Dan U said:


> even over £1m for that is fucking madness.


yes. but that's the way of the world.


----------



## Cowley (Nov 2, 2015)

Dan U said:


> even over £1m for that is fucking madness.



Sure is, you get no separate kitchen and a crappy little balcony. Do people really pay a million to live in places like this? 

I could kind of comprehend it if it was in a prime area...but still...


----------



## hash tag (Nov 3, 2015)

At least that place was relatively well insulated, modern, had two beds. Get this, in Peckham
Wrecked Shack In Peckham Sells For Almost £1m


----------



## boohoo (Nov 3, 2015)

hash tag said:


> At least that place was relatively well insulated, modern, had two beds. Get this, in Peckham
> Wrecked Shack In Peckham Sells For Almost £1m



Someone might have bought it because it was a prefab. I am sure that pushed up the price.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 3, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Someone might have bought it because it was a prefab. I am sure that pushed up the price.


i'm sure it's the land they paid for, not the building.


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## hash tag (Nov 4, 2015)

I was with a wide group of people on a course today. We concluded that there is no escaping gentrification. The concensus was virtually all of London is now gentrified or about to become so.


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## plurker (Nov 8, 2015)

The much-loved 99p Store in Streatham has become a Poundland.
I fear gentrification is upon us.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> i'm sure it's the land they paid for, not the building.



Yep. It's a corner plot, so if they're looking to build on-street terraces/"town houses", they can squeeze 2 or 3 gardenless homes into that piece of land, or even a small block of 6+ flats.


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## hash tag (Nov 27, 2015)

It's difficult to feel sorry for the owners, but someone has cocked up (didnt want to start a new thread just for this)

Mansion that belonged to singer Duffy and former Phones 4U boss collapses


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## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2015)

hash tag said:


> It's difficult to feel sorry for the owners, but someone has cocked up (didnt want to start a new thread just for this)
> 
> Mansion that belonged to singer Duffy and former Phones 4U boss collapses


dkynot


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## TikkiB (Nov 27, 2015)

"It's just an old building. It's nothing to do with the work."   Cos Britain is full of old houses just falling down all over the place all the time...


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## hash tag (Nov 27, 2015)

It's not though. It's some person trying to greatly increase the size of his house to accommodate his wine cellar, his cinema and something else.
Had the project been managed properly, that would not have happened.


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## TikkiB (Nov 27, 2015)

hash tag said:


> It's not though. It's some person trying to greatly increase the size of his house to accommodate his wine cellar, his cinema and something else.
> Had the project been managed properly, that would not have happened.


Well, the management of the project is part of the work, surely.


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## BigMoaner (Nov 30, 2015)

incredibly, a new costa coffee double fronted is opening up in the mighty gentrification resistant Thornton Heath


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2015)

hash tag said:


> It's not though. It's some person trying to greatly increase the size of his house to accommodate his wine cellar, his cinema and something else.
> Had the project been managed properly, that would not have happened.



Given the scarcity of acro-props in the wreckage/visible in the semi-intact rooms, then the job was either being skimped, or the lack of effective support during the excavations was deliberate.
It wouldn't be the first time a property-owner had got creative with renovations in order to end up with a cleared plot.


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## Artaxerxes (Dec 1, 2015)

Finally seen what they are doing to the stairs at London Bridge

These are some ugly motherfucking stairs.


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## Leafster (Dec 1, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Finally seen what they are doing to the stairs at London Bridge
> 
> These are some ugly motherfucking stairs.


It looks like a giant deformed shopping trolley trying to escape from the river.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Finally seen what they are doing to the stairs at London Bridge
> 
> These are some ugly motherfucking stairs.


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 1, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Finally seen what they are doing to the stairs at London Bridge
> 
> These are some ugly motherfucking stairs.


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## Celyn (Dec 1, 2015)

Leafster said:


> It looks like a giant deformed shopping trolley trying to escape from the river.


It's the Lambton Worm of shopping trolleys. Flee!


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## Reno (Dec 2, 2015)

Just discovered to my horror that two of my favourite Soho cheap eats have gone. The Berwick St Fish and Chips which did the best fish and chips in Soho and Stockpot. The fish and chip ship shop has been replaced with yet another chi-chi eatery and Stockpot has only just closed it seems


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## hash tag (Dec 2, 2015)

I heard yesterday that Stockpot Kings Rd has gone as well


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 2, 2015)

Reno said:


> Just discovered to my horror that two of my favourite Soho cheap eats have gone. The Berwick St Fish and Chips which did the best fish and chips in Soho and Stockpot. The fish and chip ship shop has been replaced with yet another chi-chi eatery and Stockpot has only just closed it seems


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## Orang Utan (Dec 3, 2015)

hash tag said:


> I heard yesterday that Stockpot Kings Rd has gone as well


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## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2015)




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## hash tag (Dec 4, 2015)

Chartfield Avenue I'm guessing. If so, it backs on to the Ashburton and no views of river nor any common?
There are many nicer roads nearby.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2015)

hash tag said:


> Chartfield Avenue I'm guessing. If so, it backs on to the Ashburton and no views of river nor any common?
> There are many nicer roads nearby.


Putney residents tell of 'hell' as super-rich arrive on one street


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## hash tag (Dec 4, 2015)

Thanks. Ah, so it is. Slum clearance? Bless


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## hash tag (Dec 8, 2015)

And to think the poor people of Putney have a problem. Pity the people of Hampstead! All those basements with cinema's, gym's and colonic irrigation spa's....
Fenced off: how London’s super-rich are destroying the soul of their community


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## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2015)

hash tag said:


> And to think the poor people of Putney have a problem. Pity the people of Hampstead! All those basements with cinema's, gym's and colonic irrigation spa's....
> Fenced off: how London’s super-rich are destroying the soul of their community


you do know highgate and hampstead are two separate and indeed distinct areas?


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## hash tag (Dec 8, 2015)

Same difference to me 
I uderstand that both area's have their plannig issues!


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## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2015)

hash tag said:


> Same difference to me
> I uderstand that both area's have their plannig issues!


bit like confusing brixton and clapham, i suppose. have some problems with the internet and can't get the guardian website - could you post up the text of the story?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> bit like confusing brixton and clapham, i suppose. have some problems with the internet and can't get the guardian website - could you post up the text of the story?


now have the guardian back


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## hash tag (Dec 18, 2015)

OK, so this place in Tooting does not have planning permission but it does have potential 
Offers in region of £48,000. Sold for £208,000 and then there are the fees on top 
Garage in Tooting Bec? Yours for £200,000


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## hash tag (Feb 27, 2016)

Luxury new flat in Acre Lane Brixton? Bit paranoid about security. Just £465,000. How about a flat with no windows?
Land & New Homes Brixton Camberwell Streatham  | Beresford Residential
These Brixton flats are missing something quite important
Apparently it's a way of circumventing planning permission.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 27, 2016)

hash tag said:


> Luxury new flat in Acre Lane Brixton? Bit paranoid about security. Just £465,000. How about a flat with no windows?
> Land & New Homes Brixton Camberwell Streatham  | Beresford Residential
> These Brixton flats are missing something quite important
> Apparently it's a way of circumventing planning permission.


thread about it: A flat with bespoke kitchen but no windows, anyone?


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## LeslieB (Feb 27, 2016)

Somebody somewhere (obviously quite a lot of people somewhere) must be earning the money to support this crazy casino. Banks aren't going to lend 465,000 unless there is a very good to excellent chance the money will be repaid with interest.....

who they are, where they are and what they do is something I've never properly understood.


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## hash tag (Mar 4, 2016)

Not for me to promote other forums, but for a feel of gentrification

NappyvalleyNET - The Mums Guide to South West London Life

Even has pages devoted to finding nannies/aupairs


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## hash tag (Apr 7, 2016)

Has the bubble finally burst? Perhaps, if you are an overseas investor 
London Luxury-Apartment Slump Triggers 20% Bulk Discounts

bastards. What about locals who cannot even afford the deposit on these places.


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## marty21 (Apr 7, 2016)

I was amazed to find an old school boozer near Smithfields today , The Hope ,  it's a proper boozer


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## bromley (Apr 11, 2016)

marty21 said:


> I was amazed to find an old school boozer near Smithfields today , The Hope ,  it's a proper boozer


I've never seen that pub not open!


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## marty21 (Apr 11, 2016)

bromley said:


> I've never seen that pub not open!


I felt very nostalgic drinking in there


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## ska invita (Jan 27, 2017)

Interesting side effect of gentrification is the closure of prisons. Holloway has closed and women are now imprisoned in Surrey somewhere I gather. Holloway is being replaced with flats of course.
Pentonville looks next on the hitlist. The terrible part of this is that it becomes that much harder/expensive for friends and family to visit.
Brixton vulnerable too Id expect...


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## not-bono-ever (Jan 27, 2017)

Gentrification tells

Basement ( bad things, stashes of pr0n, secrets, gloom, squatters) becomes Cellar ( Fine wines, Hobbies)
New Shed=>garden office
Paved over front garden=>private off road parking


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## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2017)

ska invita said:


> Interesting side effect of gentrification is the closure of prisons. Holloway has closed and women are now imprisoned in Surrey somewhere I gather. Holloway is being replaced with flats of course.
> Pentonville looks next on the hitlist. The terrible part of this is that it becomes that much harder/expensive for friends and family to visit.
> Brixton vulnerable too Id expect...


And Wandsworth


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## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2017)

Not to mention wormwood scrubs


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## ash (Jan 27, 2017)

ska invita said:


> Interesting side effect of gentrification is the closure of prisons. Holloway has closed and women are now imprisoned in Surrey somewhere I gather. Holloway is being replaced with flats of course.
> Pentonville looks next on the hitlist. The terrible part of this is that it becomes that much harder/expensive for friends and family to visit.
> Brixton vulnerable too Id expect...


Many were shipped out to Bronzefield in Ashford.  This is a private prison run by Sodexco.  I visited last year and as Holloway was not replaced all the women were transferred to existing prisons meaning that the system is extremely over stretched.  Dangerous IMO


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 27, 2017)

All of them are under threat. And should be replaced by a new nick on the same sight, but the greedy fuckers just see £'s rather than human lives and plough on making London a shithole.


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## oryx (Jan 27, 2017)

ska invita said:


> The terrible part of this is that it becomes that much harder/expensive for friends and family to visit.



The other terrible part of this is that any objection to this will probably raise little sympathy from the usual suspects (right wing trolls on sub- press-article comments, claimant bashers, etc.), probably on the grounds that if you have a criminal (sic) for a relative it's tough shit.


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## brogdale (Feb 27, 2017)

Surrogate for gentrification mapped:-



Red/Orange = substantial falls in Housing benefit caseload (2011-2016); Blues = rising caseload.


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## not-bono-ever (Jul 5, 2017)

may as well dump this into Belushi's( RIP) Thread

High living, low sales: Shard apartments still empty, five years on

mostly unsold, but look at this delightful take on its location

"Pryor said the Shard apartments have not been able to attract prices near the record £136m paid for a flat in the Candy brothers’ One Hyde Park for reasons that any avid watcher of TV property shows would know: “Location, location, location.”
“Kirstie and Phil tell us it every week, location, location, location. Rich people don’t want to shell out zillions living south of the river, it’s a shock enough living anywhere south of the [Hyde] park,” he said. “*Nobody knows anyone who lives south of the river*"


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## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Surrogate for gentrification mapped:-
> 
> View attachment 101229
> 
> Red/Orange = substantial falls in Housing benefit caseload (2011-2016); Blues = rising caseload.


it would be much better done and more informative if there was more gradation between the changes. they don't cover equal percentage changes and undermine the utility of the map.


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## stockwelljonny (Sep 27, 2017)

Tracking the Hyper-Gentrification of New York, One Lost Knish Place at a Time - Interesting book review “A city once famously neurotic is becoming malignantly narcissistic,”

Vanishing New York: How a Great City Lost Its Soul

Tracking the Hyper-Gentrification of New York, One Lost Knish Place at a Time


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## Pickman's model (Jan 3, 2019)

Only Fools and Horses tower block set to be DEMOLISHED | Daily Mail Online

yuppie flats everywhere
social housing destroyed


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## Poi E (Jan 4, 2019)

I took grim pleasure in seeing how long it took to take down some of the tower blocks on the way up to London Bridge. Much better built than the plastic clad, spray-textured shit that replaced them.


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## brogdale (May 17, 2019)

I'm hoping to visit this exhibition next week. An excerpt from an interesting piece about the exhibition:



> In London today, as the group Architects for Social Housing (2017Architects for Social Housing. 2017. “Mapping London’s Estate Regeneration Programme.” Mapping London’s Estate Regeneration Programme - Architects for Social Housing (ASH). [Google Scholar]) have calculated, *237 estates are threatened by or are undergoing, or have recently undergone, some form of regeneration, demolition, or privatization, of which 195 are in boroughs run by the Labour Party.* In the Labour borough of Lambeth, for example, this amounts to a net loss of some 9,500 council homes (Architects for Social Housing 2018Architects for Social Housing. 2018. _Central Hill: A Case Study in Estate Regeneration_. https://architectsforsocialhousing.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/introduction1.pdf. [Google Scholar]).


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