# The Festival Chaos Thread



## bristol_citizen (Jun 15, 2007)

What's happening with our local festivals?

1. St Pauls Carnival has been postponed until 15 September due to "licensing and financial problems". See the Post here.
People are saying it's unlikely to go ahead at all now though. Anyone know what's happening?

2. Ashton Court. The organisers announced it was going ahead on Wednesday. Today they announced "changes" - price hike of 40% (therefore its doubled in 2 years), new site, limited to 30,000 and that it was now "a family festival". Then later today the police announce it's not going ahead!
Meanwhile the festival still appears to have a £60k debt from last year and the organisers are offering a "no comment" to the press on the price rises while trying to sell tickets in advance. Anyone know what's happening?


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## JTG (Jun 15, 2007)

Nothing to add except that the whole thing makes me really sad.

We're seeing the death of two of Bristol's most attractive features.


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## Geri (Jun 16, 2007)

I couldn't give a toss about Ashton Court any more. They have ruined it for ever now.

But I tell you what, if I was intending to go, there is no way I would pay for a ticket in advance because if it doesn't go ahead, I reckon the chances of getting your money back would be pretty slim.


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## Sunspots (Jun 16, 2007)

Yep, both events have really lost their way in recent years, and as a consequence, I think it's no surprise to hear of punters losing faith.  I used to really look forward to carnival and Ashton Court, but neither events are the big dates on my calender that they used to be.  

Like last year, I've already made my choice and got tickets for something else happening on the same weekend as Ashton Court.


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## jonH (Jun 16, 2007)

circus festival here today

should be hot


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## Geri (Jun 16, 2007)

jonH said:
			
		

> circus festival here today
> 
> should be hot



Where?


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## jonH (Jun 16, 2007)

floria_tosca said:
			
		

> Where?


s of france


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## JTG (Jun 16, 2007)

Sustrans Party on the Path anyone?

Adam Hart Davis at this one but no Jungle rig.


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## Sunspots (Jun 16, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> Sustrans Party on the Path anyone?
> 
> Adam Hart Davis at this one but no Jungle rig.



Yeah, he's moved on.  Nowadays he just plays dubstep off his laptop.


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## gentlegreen (Jun 16, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> Sustrans Party on the Path anyone?
> 
> Adam Hart Davis at this one but no Jungle rig.


That looks interesting - it ought really to be at Mangotsfield Station though.  







As for Ashton Court and a "family festival"   

They ought to ban people from bringing in booze and stop busting the pot smokers....


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## JTG (Jun 16, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> Yeah, he's moved on.  Nowadays he just plays dubstep off his laptop.



 

Such a shame though, he used to kill it back in the day...

Bad boooooys inna London, rude boooooys inna England....


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## Sunspots (Jun 16, 2007)

gentlegreen said:
			
		

> That looks interesting - it ought really to be at Mangotsfield Station though.



That's a nice spot, isn't it; I usually make a pitstop there if I'm on my way to/from Bath.  

As a site for a cycling awareness raising event though, it's probably not really the ideal location to catch the attention of many non-cyclists...


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## Sunspots (Jun 16, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> Such a shame though, he used to kill it back in the day...
> 
> Bad boooooys inna London, rude boooooys inna England....



Staying true to his roots though, his forthcoming BBC series is called _What The Basslines Did For Us_.


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## JTG (Jun 16, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> That's a nice spot, isn't it; I usually make a pitstop there if I'm on my way to/from Bath.
> 
> As a site for a cycling awareness raising event though, it's probably not really the ideal location to catch the attention of many non-cyclists...



I think the polis were a little worried about the Castle Park thing, lots of potential for it to turn into a reclaim the streets style thing like the last similar event there


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## JTG (Jun 16, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> Staying true to his roots though, his forthcoming BBC series is called _What The Basslines Did For Us_.





True Junglist Souljah, that's our Adam


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## Geri (Jun 16, 2007)

gentlegreen said:
			
		

> They ought to ban people from bringing in booze



What?!  Why?


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## gentlegreen (Jun 16, 2007)

floria_tosca said:
			
		

> What?!  Why?



'cos it's a crap drug and banning people from bringing vast amounts with them would hopefully keep the pissheads in the Centre where they belong  

I was there in the 70s when it was all fields ...


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## Sunspots (Jun 16, 2007)

gentlegreen said:
			
		

> As for Ashton Court and a "family festival"



They just can't seem to win, can they?  

People (-myself included) have bemoaned the changes of recent years, as it's shifted (-by financial necessity?) from an all-inclusive free community festival to something that seems to have been increasingly aimed at attracting a far more homogenous twenty-$omething audience. 

The organisers seem to be floundering, unable to quite work out which direction to take it in.  Maybe this year's repositioning/refocus, and the reduction in numbers, is actually an attempt to reverse the trend of recent years?  (As well-intentioned as that may be though, things can never be how they once were.  All the increased legal/safety restrictions/costs they've got to conform to nowadays evidently make that pretty much impossible.)

I dunno.


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## gentlegreen (Jun 16, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> That's a nice spot, isn't it; I usually make a pitstop there if I'm on my way to/from Bath.
> 
> As a site for a cycling awareness raising event though, it's probably not really the ideal location to catch the attention of many non-cyclists...


Handier too if I'm honest - within walking distance.


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## Crispy (Jun 16, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> All the increased legal/safety restrictions/costs they've got to conform to nowadays evidently make that pretty much impossible.)



Whatever the other problems the festival has had, this is ultimately the thing that prevents anything like the Ashton Courts of old.


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## Sunspots (Jun 16, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> I think the polis were a little worried about the Castle Park thing, lots of potential for it to turn into a reclaim the streets style thing like the last similar event there



Interesting to see how those ideas get absorbed over time.  

I read something recently about a council-approved proposal to create a city centre beach this summer.  (-Also being done in other cities too, I know.)  Technically though, I suppose this would actually be a case of _"Beneath the beach... -the paving stones!"_


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## Sunspots (Jun 16, 2007)

gentlegreen said:
			
		

> Handier too if I'm honest - within walking distance.



Handier for _you_, yeah.  

Obviously a central location will attract more people though, right?


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## Geri (Jun 16, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> I
> I read something recently about a council-approved proposal to create a city centre beach this summer.  (-Also being done in other cities too, I know.)  Technically though, I suppose this would actually be a case of _"Beneath the beach... -the paving stones!"_



It sounds shit. What is the point of a beach without the sea?


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## gentlegreen (Jun 16, 2007)

floria_tosca said:
			
		

> It sounds shit. What is the point of a beach without the sea?


There's always the river Frome (underground), and the docks 50 yards away (river Avon)  
(the latter would be tidal if it weren't for the lock gates)


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## xenon (Jun 17, 2007)

That beach thing is up from Redcliff Hill I think. Seems a bit pointless.

As for Ashton Court. What's wrong with lugging a rucksack full of warming larger up the hill?

Will be up for checking out that Sustrans thing I think. Even though they never gave me the job I applied for a few years back.


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## wiskey (Jun 17, 2007)

i rekkon we'll wander over to the sustrans thingy.


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## Sunspots (Jun 17, 2007)

From www.ashtoncourtfestival.com:



> Weekend tickets
> 
> Adults
> 
> ...



_£20+ just to get in?_  Then add to that your travel/parking costs, and food/drink, etc for _each_ day... 

Quite frankly...

(-unless they've managed to book a headline set by Sly & The Family Stone with a guest spot by Prince or something!...) 

..._fuck this bollocks._


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## JTG (Jun 17, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> From www.ashtoncourtfestival.com:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



exactly.

I now declare the Bristol Community Festival as we knew and loved it officially dead.  Killed by H&S legislation, too many powers given to the police and organisers who lost sight of what it was all about.


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## Sunspots (Jun 17, 2007)

When you add up how much it'll now cost for a family to go, claims by the organisers that it's a _'family friendly'_ festival are kind of taking the piss.  Where's the inclusivity there?  It's _exactly_ what we predicted would happen, isn't it.

I _do_ appreciate all the reasons for the extra costs, but I just can't find it in me to sympathize with this mess anymore.


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## xenon (Jun 17, 2007)

I remember when I first came to Bristol and went in 97, it was a nominal couple of quid to get in.

Then it got sponsored and prices went up.


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## chymaera (Jun 18, 2007)

What is happening to festivals and events in general is that local authorities now have total responsibility for all aspects of licensing. (This also means councillors are PERSONALLY and UNLIMITEDLY liable if they do not cover all aspects of the "duty of care" they have of attendees at festival and events when they grants licences.)
Hence tablets of stone rules and regulations festival and event organisors have to put in place and enforce.
This means there are some pretty hefty expenses organisors now have to fork out for. (In some cases a £500 course for stewards and marshalls.)


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## J77 (Jun 18, 2007)

Yeah -- fuck Ashton Court now, with its 20-30 quid ticket -- like Glastonbury, it'll be full of wrong 'uns now, anyway.


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## Isambard (Jun 18, 2007)

Well we'll see if they get a licence on 28th June innit.
Seeing as mushy Fest didn't happen this year.   perhaps we should start out own festival.


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## Geri (Jun 20, 2007)

Well, the cunts have banned you from bringing your own booze in now, so I definitely won't be going.

I didn't often take my own booze anyway, as I prefer it cold, but because other people did there was rarely much of a queue at the beer tent. It's also nice to have the choice, because even at the Workers Beer tent it's £2.50 or more for a pint of weakish beer or lager. 

Of course, this isn't about bringing back the 'family atmosphere' as they claim, but will enable them to make more money by running the bars on site.


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## xenon (Jun 20, 2007)

You're fucking joking? You can't take your own booze to AC.  

I know you're not allowed glass. But banning drink being taken in. WTF.


Although it mentions nothing to that effect on the website.


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## Geri (Jun 20, 2007)

It's in today's Evening Post.

Link here:

http://tinyurl.com/2c4jar

BTW, can anyone read the comments on that article? I can't get them to work.


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## xenon (Jun 20, 2007)

What a crock of shite. No doubt blamed on a few individuals who can't handle their drink and for what ever reason, are unejectable. Nothing what so ever with stalls not selling enough beer and therefore dare I say contesting how much they have to pay to pitch up their.


I aint going to queue up in the sun, missing the music with hundreds of peple to buy rip off largar, only to spill most of it making way back to the stages.


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## Geri (Jun 20, 2007)

I really can't see it working - what are they going to do when they find it, confiscate it? People will go mental!


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## Sunspots (Jun 20, 2007)

floria_tosca said:
			
		

> Of course, this isn't about bringing back the 'family atmosphere' as they claim, but will enable them to make more money by running the bars on site.



Spot on.  

They've had the begging bowl out all year, and everybody knows about the festival's financial woes.  -So why can't the organisers just admit that they're desperate to make as much money as possible, and stop using the _'family friendly'_ excuse for everything? 

On top of everything else that's been already changed/charged, all this latest nail in the coffin will do is piss more and more people off and make them decide not to bother going.

RIP Bristol's community festival.


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## Sunspots (Jun 20, 2007)

floria_tosca said:
			
		

> I really can't see it working - what are they going to do when they find it, confiscate it? People will go mental!



Well, thank fuck they've spent all that money on paramilitary security, then eh!...


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## xenon (Jun 21, 2007)

floria_tosca said:
			
		

> I really can't see it working - what are they going to do when they find it, confiscate it? People will go mental!



Sadly I think they will. If you go through the gates, they could search everyone if they chose to.

I would have been prepared to pay a tenner for a day but in the light of this I wont be going,  and the few I spoke about it to earlier in pub, aren't either. either.


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## Geri (Jun 21, 2007)

A tenner _plus booking fee _before 25th June. When the licence hearing isn't until 28th! Not sure I'd risk that myself.

But I'm not going, I took the decision to boycott it last year, after going every year for 20 years, even when it moved to Hengrove due to the foot & mouth outbreak, and hardly anyone turned up.


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## Sunspots (Jun 21, 2007)

This ban on BYO isn't going down too well at all:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/content/articles/2007/06/19/ashtoncourt_drinkban_feature.shtml

People aren't fooled, they can see it's more about money rather than safety.  As one of the comments mentions, it's damned cheeky of the organisers to keep quiet about this decision until _after_ everybody had filled the begging bowl!


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## fractionMan (Jun 21, 2007)

Family friendly means that I can hide my beer in little fractions pushchair. yay for kids! 

Seriously though, it's always been "family friendly" if you ask me.  I've never ha a problem going there with littleuns.  What a load of bullshit.


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## Sunspots (Jun 21, 2007)

If there's still going to be plenty of alcohol on sale onsite, then the excuse for banning BYO on the grounds of 'safety' is patently bollocks.  Right now, part of this heavy-handed attitude (_"...dealt with appropriately..."_  ) is probably as much to do with actually securing the festival's licence on the 28th.  

The organisers are presumably walking such a financial tightrope that at this stage they literally can't afford for it not to go ahead, and so have to submit to whatever restrictions the police want to impose. 

All that's going to happen as a result of this ban is that, 5 minutes before going through the gates, lots of people are going to try to down as much booze as they possibly can.  Cue massive late-afternoon hangovers, moodiness, and the potential for _less_ 'safety'.  -Well done, organisers!! 

The local goodwill's seeping away.  The only thing that'll overshadow this mess is if Massive Attack _<meh>_ finally relent and agree to do the mythical headline slot that's always rumoured each and every year...


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## Sunspots (Jun 21, 2007)

fractionMan said:
			
		

> Family friendly means that I can hide my beer in little fractions pushchair. yay for kids!



If I was going, I'd take my inspiration from the old urban myth about Keef and go for a complete 8 pint blood transfusion for the day, except in reverse (ie: I'd replace all the blood in my veins with booze 'n' drugs).  

-Or is that just _a bit_ too drastic?...


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## Isambard (Jun 21, 2007)

Load of shite innit. 

I'd already long decided not to go this year
but this is just taking the piss. I really think it is about getting the licence from North Somerset Council on the 28th and I bet the police have made this a condition of their withdrawing objection.


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## Gerry1time (Jun 25, 2007)

Since i've volunteered to do some online work with the festival this year, helping the organisers explain to people what's going on and why, thought i'd better say hello on this thread! 

One thing i can clear up straight away is that the no alcohol decision is 100% not about them making more money. They're well aware that any increase in the minimal percentage they get from the bars will be offset by the risk of lower attendance. 

It's a combination of the license requiring it and genuine feedback from attendees and artists about people getting absolutely wrecked and anti-social. Of course this affects everyone who drinks without causing problems as well, but ultimately it was felt to help with moving the festival back to a family one, as well as it being a condition of the license. 

If anyone wants to ask anything else about the festival, give me a shout and i'll try to find out for you...


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## free spirit (Jun 25, 2007)

Gerry1time said:
			
		

> Since i've volunteered to do some online work with the festival this year, helping the organisers explain to people what's going on and why, thought i'd better say hello on this thread!
> 
> One thing i can clear up straight away is that the no alcohol decision is 100% not about them making more money. They're well aware that any increase in the minimal percentage they get from the bars will be offset by the risk of lower attendance.
> 
> ...



good luck with that...

Not sure how you'l be implementing the no byo policy, but just thought it'd be worth making the point that this policy could be planned to be a discretionary policy, ie. technically nobodies allowed to bring their own alcohol on site, but in reality it's not enforced apart from people who're stumbling around pissed swigging from vodka bottles. Basically it could be that they've just decided they need the additional power to remove excessive amounts of alcohol from people / take alcohol off people who're causing problems, but in order to do this they need it to apply to everyone then they can just use their discretion.

that'd be how I'd do it anyway, though it might be that they do apply it to everyone, with fulll searches on the gate etc. guess you won't know til it actually happens, just thought it might be worth pointing out it might not be as bad as it seems.


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## bristol_citizen (Jun 25, 2007)

Gerry1time said:
			
		

> feedback from attendees and artists


Out of interest, how was this feedback obtained? 




			
				Gerry1time said:
			
		

> moving the festival back to a family one


At what point in the past was it a 'family festival'? Can we have an example of where you're moving it back too? (eg. Are you thinking of the Free Festival of the 70s? The dance field days of the 90s?)


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## Gerry1time (Jun 25, 2007)

Cool, ta for those all, should point out that it's not 'me' doing any of this stuff, i've just volunteered relatively late in the day to help be a kinda bridge between the stupidly busy festival organisers (and they really are, it's hectic in there) and the people online talking about stuff. 

So, on the last 3 Q's, I dunno, but i shall endeavour to find out ASAP!


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## Geri (Jun 25, 2007)

I can't believe many people said they didn't want to be able to take their own alcohol.

Who did they ask - teetotallers?


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## Sunspots (Jun 25, 2007)

Gerry1time said:
			
		

> It's a combination of the license requiring it and genuine feedback from attendees and artists about people getting absolutely wrecked and anti-social.



Well I don't know anybody who was consulted, and tbh, I don't believe it was a decision based on feedback.  I wonder if all this feedback will be listened to though? _(Scroll down on each page to the comments...)
_
From the same BBC link:




			
				BBC said:
			
		

> At the time organisers claimed the move was due to "feedback" and was to "keep the atmosphere over the weekend fun, friendly and family orientated".
> 
> But Mr Hunt told BBC Radio Bristol's John Turner the reason was down to the conditions of this year's licence.



Audio clip of the BBC Radio interview  here.

When specifically asked about the decision to ban BYO being apparently based on _'feedback'_, Steve Hunt completely dodges the question and basically admits it's purely about satisfying the licensing conditions.

I actually feel quite sorry for Steve Hunt and his team, 'cos I'm sure they're well-intentioned, working bloody hard, and are under a hell of a lot of pressure from all sides.  Listening to that radio interview though, he obviously hasn't been completely straight with the public about what's happening and why.  

Gerry1time, good on you for getting involved.  I think you're going to have a hard time convincing the majority of festival goers though...


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## Gerry1time (Jun 25, 2007)

Ta dood, probably might be in a way, but i love ashton court, and have offered to do what i can. Having met them, you're description is spot on, they're working their arses off, are totally well intentioned (no-one makes profit off this festival) and have I think been straight with people from what I've seen. Conversations with your audience are always hard when conducted solely through the media though. 

Hence me, i guess...

(and yeah, one of the things i hope to do is to pull together all the online feedback and comment for consideration, the more feedback they get the better)


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## big eejit (Jun 26, 2007)

They seem very keen on feedback - are they Jesus and Mary Chain fans?

So, if they gots of feedback saying we do want to bring our own alcohol will they change the rule? Or do they only want feedback that says we don't want to bring our own beer?


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## Sunspots (Jun 26, 2007)

Now that the line up has been announced, I expect some people will now begrudgingly accept the ban on BYO.  

It doesn't matter how good or bad the line up is though.  The ban is still ridiculous, the PR of it has been a mess, and the points raised in this thread still stand IMO.


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## JTG (Jun 29, 2007)

The licence hearing has been postponed to Monday.

BCC think the festival doesn't have the reserves to pay for any damage that may be caused

A&S plod want the right to search everyone for drink and drugs on the way in

A&S and the Bower Ashton residents Association want a better fence and a 9pm curfew for the festival

BCC want a traffic management plan to be produced for the event two months in advance of it - it's due in two weeks.

To be honest, the festival looks fucked to me


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## Sunspots (Jun 29, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> The licence hearing has been postponed to Monday.
> 
> BCC think the festival doesn't have the reserves to pay for any damage that may be caused
> 
> ...



Funny how the Bower Ashton Residents Association are now going crazy about the noise, the traffic, the fencing, and pushing for a 9pm finish for this, but somehow the Balloon Fiesta (-with it's late night 'after glow' celebrations and GWR sonic shitstorm) gets to go ahead at the same place without the same NIMBY outcry.  

-I don't remember any fencing, any entrance fee, any draconian security, or any BYO restrictions imposed at the Balloon Fiesta, despite there usually being a bit of crowd aggro each year.  (-Didn't somebody get fatally beaten/stabbed up there about 3 years ago?) -Oh, that's it, I forgot: the Balloon Fiesta's got big corporate sponsorship... 

Yep, Ashton Court looks fucked to me too.  -Even if it does get the go ahead, the spirit is being completely strangled out of it.


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## bristol_citizen (Jun 29, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> Funny how the Bower Ashton Residents Association are now going crazy about the noise, the traffic, the fencing, and pushing for a 9pm finish for this, but somehow the Balloon Fiesta (-with it's late night 'after glow' celebrations and GWR sonic shitstorm) gets to go ahead at the same place without the same NIMBY outcry.
> 
> -I don't remember any fencing, any entrance fee, any draconian security, or any BYO restrictions imposed at the Balloon Fiesta, despite there usually being a bit of crowd aggro each year.  (-Didn't somebody get fatally beaten/stabbed up there about 3 years ago?) -Oh, that's it, I forgot: the Balloon Fiesta's got big corporate sponsorship...
> 
> Yep, Ashton Court looks fucked to me too.  -Even if it does get the go ahead, the spirit is being completely strangled out of it.


Yeah corporate sponsorship helps but it also seems to me that it's about building good relationships with the councils, the coppers, the sponsors, the residents, the public etc. The Balloon Fiesta is very good at this.
I'm not convinced the Ashton Court management are. If they treat all these other interests like they've treated the public over the last couple of weeks then you can see the problem.


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## Isambard (Jun 30, 2007)

free spirit said:
			
		

> Not sure how you'l be implementing the no byo policy, but just thought it'd be worth making the point that this policy could be planned to be a discretionary policy, ie. technically nobodies allowed to bring their own alcohol on site, but in reality it's not enforced......



They already had this before. Last year the rules was somthing like no more than 8 containers containing alcahol and no container more than a litre or something. I got searched at the gates by security under the beady eye of A&S's finest, as did another known poster, but we are of course respectable.


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## Sunspots (Jun 30, 2007)

Isambard said:
			
		

> but we are of course respectable.



You might've fooled them, but you don't fool me!!


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## Sunspots (Jul 2, 2007)

North Somerset Council says yes, but with strings attached: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6261230.stm

Of the 30 newly-imposed conditions, I particularly applaud #5 ('no jester hats'), #12 ('no juggling'), and #24 ('no improv theatre groups'). 

It was agreed by councillors that proposed condition #31 will be in place in time for next year's festival (-the 'machine-gun towers').


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## William of Walworth (Jul 2, 2007)

I'm not going, but I'm surprised that the festival's licensing comes under North Somerset, I always assumed it was Bristol City Council ...


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## JTG (Jul 2, 2007)

William of Walworth said:
			
		

> I'm not going, but I'm surprised that the festival's licensing comes under North Somerset, I always assumed it was Bristol City Council ...



North Somerset starts as soon as you set foot on the southern side of the Spenshon Bridge. Confusingly, the Ashton Court Estate is owned by Bristol City Council - the local authority with jurisdiction over it is still North Somerset though.


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## free spirit (Jul 3, 2007)

fuck me, a 3.6m fence round the entire site ain't cheap, that's got to be £50k+


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## Isambard (Jul 3, 2007)

The two go hand in hand innit:

We need to charge more becasue we have to pay for a fence.
We need to pay for a fence so we can force people to pay more.


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## Geri (Jul 5, 2007)

My friend just got her ticket. With the booking fee and parking (she is pregnant and has two young kids) it cost her £36.


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## djbombscare (Jul 11, 2007)

Isambard said:
			
		

> The two go hand in hand innit:
> 
> We need to charge more becasue we have to pay for a fence.
> We need to pay for a fence so we can force people to pay more.




we need to 
we need to 
we need to


They need to fuck off on there orange spacehoppers is what they NEED to do.


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## djbombscare (Jul 11, 2007)

Why dont they just hold it in Bath,

Its got just as much to do with Bath these days as it has Bristol and they could charge more as Bath is Bristol's Theme Park. 

One entrance fee and all the rides are free


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## Isambard (Jul 11, 2007)

djbombscare said:
			
		

> One entrance fee and all the rides are free



Get better rides in bristol mind but I digress.......


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## djbombscare (Jul 12, 2007)

DING DING


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