# Julia Gillard: Australia gets a Barry girl in charge. Tidy.



## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

Who would have thought that a girl from Barry would go so far?! The last foreign PM in Australia was a  Welshman too.  



> Gillard became the Leader of the Australian Labor Party at the  2010 Australian Labor Party leadership election on 24 June 2010 and was  sworn in as prime minister later that day. She had previously served as  Deputy Prime Minister of Australia under Kevin Rudd. On 11 December  2007, she became the first woman in Australia's history to assume the  prime ministerial role when she was the acting prime minister while Rudd  attended the United Nations Climate Change Conference in Bali.
> 
> Gillard is also the first foreign-born prime minister since Billy  Hughes, who served from 1915 to 1923, and Australia's first prime  minister who has never married.





> Gillard was born in 1961 in Barry, Vale of Glamorgan, Wales. Her  parents, John and Moira, live in Pasadena, South Australia.
> 
> After Gillard suffered from bronchopneumonia as a child, her parents  were advised it would aid her recovery to live in a warmer climate. The  family chose to migrate to Australia in 1966, settling in  Adelaide.


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## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

Interesting story too:


> It has been an amazing journey. Gillard was born to a working class family in September 1961. Her father, John, was one of seven children, and worked as a policeman and clerk. He passed his 11-plus but his family could not afford to let him go to grammar school. Her mother, Moira, was a civilian worker at the police station.
> 
> It was a political family with John Gillard a familiar figure at Labour meetings and rallies. Gillard cites Nye Bevan, the architect of the NHS, as a key influence.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/24/julia-gillard-ten-pound-pom-prime-minister-australia


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## kyser_soze (Jun 25, 2010)

She's a craven witch who'll bend over and take it from the mining industry first chance she gets. Still, she's probably got more balls than Rudd.


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## butchersapron (Jun 25, 2010)

She's already caved into the mining industry - placed there by right wing union bosses and the aforementioned industry.


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## Gromit (Jun 25, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> She's a craven witch who'll bend over and take it from the mining industry first chance she gets. Still, she's probably got more balls than Rudd.


 
Nah she'll close all the mines, try to break the unions, propose a poll tax and start a war with Argentina. 

Mark my words. Women are all the same.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 25, 2010)

Being a ginge and Welsh, I wonder if she'll fall over in the sea?


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## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Being a ginge and Welsh, I wonder if she'll fall over in the sea?


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## London_Calling (Jun 25, 2010)

> John and Moira asked the doctors how they could make sure she got better."
> 
> They recommended the family leave  Wales


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## 1927 (Jun 25, 2010)

She's a Barry girl so I'm very surprised she never had children, in Barry if you haven't had atleast 2 kids by the time you're 15 everyone has you down as a lesbian.


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## Gromit (Jun 25, 2010)

She left when she was 5.

I bet she considers herself Australian rather than Welsh.


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## krtek a houby (Jun 25, 2010)

Gromit said:


> She left when she was 5.
> 
> I bet she considers herself Australian rather than Welsh.



It's not where you're from, it's where you're at. So they say, like


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## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I bet she considers herself Australian rather than Welsh.


You're a little bit on the wrong side there.



> JON FAINE: Does your family have a personal military history?
> 
> JULIA GILLARD: We do.  My grandfather, my mother’s father was in World War I.  I never knew him, Jon.  *We’re Welsh*....
> 
> ...


The Welsh Labour leader Nye Bevan is one of her political heroes too.


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## butchersapron (Jun 25, 2010)

You can easily find her saying the exact opposite as well though.


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## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> You can easily find her saying the exact opposite as well though.


I'm really not that bothered, but I've yet to see her try to disown the fact that she was born in Wales to Welsh parents - and that makes her pretty much Welsh by anyone's reckoning.

She seems to have overcome a few obstacles to get the job in Oz:


> In the land of cold beer and untrammelled misogyny, this is about the worst kind of human being possible.
> 
> One Right-wing senator has even described her as ‘deliberately barren’, implying that a woman is little more than a life support system to an ovary and somehow not fit for political office.
> 
> ...


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## AnnO'Neemus (Jun 25, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> She's a craven witch who'll bend over and take it from the mining industry first chance she gets. Still, she's probably got more balls than Rudd.


She mentioned mining in her first speech last night.  She's bending over already.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 25, 2010)

Shame she moved there when she was so young and lost her accent, because her accent now is awful


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 25, 2010)

What's all this Australian mining business about then?


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> She's a craven witch who'll bend over and take it from the mining industry first chance she gets. Still, she's probably got more balls than Rudd.



And the Welsh immigrant has already promised to limit immigration.... She's not been there a week and the race card is duly dealt.... Ooohh where's that ladder so I can pull it up after me .... tidy....


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## gabi (Jun 28, 2010)

So, you're proud that a Welshperson is PM of Australia?

That's a fucking high bar you've got there


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## London_Calling (Jun 28, 2010)

^ Yep, I too support all the decisions my parents ever made and incorporate them into decisions I make now, especially the ones they made  on health grounds when  I was 5 years old.

Fedayn - it must be a long way up there on that horse.


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> Fedayn - it must be a long way up there on that horse.



You don't do irony then? Here we have a thread that says whoopee the new PM of Australia is 'Welsh' as if that's anything to 'celebrate'?! I'm just wondering if the Welsh are still celebrating given she's already got her hypocrisy in early... Must make them so proud, aaaahh but she's not just any anti-immigrant, she's a Welsh anti-immigrant.....


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> You don't do irony then? Here we have a thread that says whoopee the new PM of Australia is 'Welsh' as if that's anything to 'celebrate'?! I'm just wondering if the Welsh are still celebrating given she's already got her hypocrisy in early... Must make them so proud, aaaahh but she's not just any anti-immigrant, she's a Welsh anti-immigrant.....


A woman from a working class family from the shithole that is Barry in south Wales managed to overcome Australia's built in misogyny and get the top job.

Ever been to Barry? If you had, you'd realise it's a bit of an achievement.

Perhaps if you posted up what your parents were doing when you were five years old, we could check that there's no "hypocrisy" related to your current beliefs too


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 28, 2010)

Well done to her.

It took me by surprise when I saw the news though. Rudd seemed a likeable kind of PM as far a politicians go. I hadn't heard about the mining debarcle that had played such a big part in his ousting though.

Fair play to Gillard for getting the top job though.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

No fair play involved. She found the longest knife possible and stabbed Rudd in the back with it.

The main thing that got Rudd kicked out was bottling it on the climate change legislation, but he's hugely unliked by his own party.


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> A woman from a working class family from the shithole that is Barry in south Wales managed to overcome Australia's built in misogyny and get the top job.
> 
> Ever been to Barry? If you had, you'd realise it's a bit of an achievement.
> 
> Perhaps if you posted up what your parents were doing when you were five years old, we could check that there's no "hypocrisy" related to your current beliefs too



What have my parents got to do with anything? My mum was an office clerk my dad was a fireman. There you go.... Fill your boots.... 

Oooohh she's Welsh she's got a good job.... how dull. As dull as ooooh she's English she's got a good job.... She got a good job, by shafting people, rolling over to big business and right-wing union leaders.... Don't it make you proud.... 

It's hilarious, a supposedly liberal Welsh bloke whooping it up cos someone Welsh got a job then proceeded to be the same as everyone else who gets to the top of the pile... How marvellous..... 

Wouldn't it be something to be proud of if a working-class Welsh woman started to tackle the big mining interests instead of roling over within the week, didn't play the immigrant/race card within a week? That I agree would be well worth celebrating. This however.....


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## London_Calling (Jun 28, 2010)

You hear that noise, Fedayn ?


It's the *point* going over your head at about 30,000 feet.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> It's hilarious, a supposedly liberal Welsh bloke whooping it up cos someone Welsh got a job then proceeded to be the same as everyone else who gets to the top of the pile... How marvellous.....


"Whooping it up"?


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## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> You hear that noise, Fedayn ?
> 
> 
> It's the *point* going over your head at about 30,000 feet.



Explain the point then.


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> You hear that noise, Fedayn ?
> 
> 
> It's the *point* going over your head at about 30,000 feet.



Really? Yes her parents moved not her? Still doesn't get away from one of the points I was referring to.


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> "Whooping it up"?



Yeah ok, a bit overegged, is being happy at/with or mildly 'celebrating' a tad better?


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> It's hilarious, a supposedly liberal Welsh bloke



Ed's a _liberal_? For shame.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> Yeah ok, a bit overegged, is being happy at/with or mildly 'celebrating' a tad better?


I'm pleased that a woman has managed to make it to the top of the pile in a country like Australia, and I think it's an achievement when that woman is a working class immigrant from a particularly rough part of Wales who cites Bevan as one of her political heroes.

I think I'd prefer to learn a bit more about the political situation in Australia and give her more than a few days in office before rubbishing her achievements as eagerly as you.





Proper Tidy said:


> Ed's a liberal? For shame.


News to me.


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## gabi (Jun 28, 2010)

Kevin Rudd was the best thing to happen to Australian politics in their history, so I'm assuming you're just slightly ill-informed here ed...


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> Kevin Rudd was the best thing to happen to Australian politics in their history, so I'm assuming you're just slightly ill-informed here ed...


"Ill informed" how exactly? I haven't even mentioned Kevin Rudd, although I know he was hugely unpopular with his own party after public support slumped catastrophically under his leadership and had no choice but to go.



> Julia Gillard has been sworn in as Australia's first female prime minister after a surprise leadership vote in the ruling Labor Party ousted Kevin Rudd.
> 
> Mr Rudd chose not to take part in the ballot knowing he would suffer an embarrassing defeat to his deputy.
> 
> ...


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 28, 2010)

I know bugger all about Oz politics. All I know is that Kevin Rudd always appeared to be on the verge of tears.


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## gabi (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> "Ill informed" how exactly? I haven't even mentioned Kevin Rudd, although I know he was hugely unpopular with his own party after public support slumped catastrophically under his leadership.



The reason he became unpopular was because he was way too liberal for his own party. The cheek - apologising to the Aborigines etc. Of course such actions will make him unpopular.

He's been stabbed in the back by the right wing of his party, not sure this is reason to celebrate. He was a genuinely decent politician. His days were always going to be numbered in that political climate.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> The reason he became unpopular was because he was way too liberal for his own party.


The nosedive in support wasn't just from his own party though, was it?  From what I've read, he was responsible for losing massive public support for the party too:



> Australia’s first woman prime minister has boosted the government’s once—lagging popularity to an election—winning lead over the opposition, according to a respected opinion poll published on Monday.
> 
> Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s early public support since she ousted her predecessor Kevin Rudd in a shock leadership challenge last Thursday could tempt her to call an election soon.
> 
> ...


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## gabi (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> The nosedive in support wasn't just from his own party though, was it?  From what I've read, he was responsible for losing massive public support for the party too:



I think you need to look at the public support he lost. We're talking about a bunch of fucking rednecks by and large, with all due respect to australians.

The only shock was that he ever made it to the top job with his views on indigenous rights, womens rights, climate change etc.

A big step backwards. Im glad I no longer live there.


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 28, 2010)

So erm.. do we like her or not?


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## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> The reason he became unpopular was because he was way too liberal for his own party. The cheek - apologising to the Aborigines etc. Of course such actions will make him unpopular.
> 
> He's been stabbed in the back by the right wing of his party, not sure this is reason to celebrate. He was a genuinely decent politician. His days were always going to be numbered in that political climate.



So despite the main reasons for his being ousted - his failure to get a climate deal approved depsite it being the 'biggest moral challenge of our time' and resentment in the party for his centralising style (one of his cabinet on the record as saying he hadn't been phoned by Rudd for 3 years), you think it was the apology and his 'decency' that led to his being unseated?


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> I think you need to look at the public support he lost. We're talking about a bunch of fucking rednecks by and large, with all due respect to australians.
> 
> The only shock was that he ever made it to the top job with his views on indigenous rights, womens rights, climate change etc.
> 
> A big step backwards. Im glad I no longer live there.


How is Gillard's appointment a "big step backwards" in regard to women's rights?


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## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> I think you need to look at the public support he lost. We're talking about a bunch of fucking rednecks by and large, with all due respect to australians.
> 
> The only shock was that he ever made it to the top job with his views on indigenous rights, womens rights, climate change etc.
> 
> A big step backwards. Im glad I no longer live there.



So, the fact that even 18 months ago he was riding on approval ratings of 60%+ and lost it when he bottled it on the climate deal - which a lot of people voted for him for - his ratings collapsed. The Apology was hugely popular too.



skyscraper101 said:


> So erm.. do we like her or not?



She's withdrawn the mining supertax and started ratting on about immigration. That would be a No.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> How is Gillard's appointment a "big step backwards" in regard to women's rights?



In the same way Thatcher's was.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

She doesn't exactly seem anti-women's rights to me - quite the opposite in fact:





> Julia Gillard's ascension to the top office has been hailed as a momentous achievement for Australian women.
> 
> Labor Senator Claire Moore, the nation co-ordinator for the ALP women's advocacy group Emily's List, says it is an important step in the quest for gender equality in politics.
> 
> ...





> And [Gillard] was quick to pay tribute the deposed prime minister Kevin Rudd, saying he had championed the issues central to Emily's List.
> 
> "I do want to actually pay enormous respect and gratitude to Kevin Rudd, because on the issues that Emily's List supports, which is women's rights, women's equity, the Rudd government actually was a leader in all of those and we could not have wished for a better prime minister in terms of supporting our issues than we had in Kevin Rudd," she said.
> 
> ...


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> In the same way Thatcher's was.


Yeah. Women are all the same, eh?


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm pleased that a woman has managed to make it to the top of the pile in a country like Australia, and I think it's an achievement when that woman is a working class immigrant from a particularly rough part of Wales who cites Bevan as one of her political heroes.
> 
> I think I'd prefer to learn a bit more about the political situation in Australia and give her more than a few days in office before rubbishing her achievements as eagerly as you.News to me.



Whoopee do, isn't it great, we have our own sell out to mining interests and immigrant/race card player and hey she's Welsh, oooohh gotta make you proud!! Why do you need to wait, she's already having a go at the immigration buttons.... And her position on the mining industry.....



> "We need to do more than consult, we need to negotiate... we need to end this uncertainty," she said.
> 
> "Today, I am throwing open the government's door to the mining industry and in return I ask the mining industry to open its mind."



Pretty clear wouldn't you say? Or do you need more time to make up your mind? On immigration and big mining interests she's already made clear her views.... Gotta make ya proud.... 

Yeah, i'd say he was liberal with a small 'l' ie socially liberal.... Or is the editor not socially liberal now?


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 28, 2010)

Is she on the right, the left or the centre of the Labor party?


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## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm just confused that on this thread we're bigging up a confessed, paid up member of the 'free market rules' collection of politicians simply on the basis that she's from Barry.

And her policy choices aren't that far away from Thatch either.


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 28, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I'm just confused that on this thread we're bigging up a confessed, paid up member of the 'free market rules' collection of politicians simply on the basis that she's from Barry.
> 
> And her policy choices aren't that far away from Thatch either.



Ah, she's a neo-liberal Laborite. The wanker.


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I'm just confused that on this thread we're bigging up a confessed, paid up member of the 'free market rules' collection of politicians simply on the basis that she's from Barry.
> 
> And her policy choices aren't that far away from Thatch either.



Exactly....

Wonder if anyone from Brixton woulda done a well done John Major thread when he became PM. Well he was from a poor background and made it to PM....


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## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

I mean in fairness, Rudd's whole mining supertax was a pretty desparate bid to get back into the voters good books after dropping the ball on climate change, but at least he was making an attempt to screw the fuckers over.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> Whoopee do, isn't it great, we have our own sell out to mining interests and immigrant/race card player and hey she's Welsh, oooohh gotta make you proud!!


And there you go again with your lies. Where have I said I was "proud" of her appointment?

 


Fedayn said:


> Yeah, i'd say he was liberal with a small 'l' ie socially liberal.... Or  is the editor not socially liberal now?


My personal politics are irrelevant to this thread, although it's becoming very apparent that you're more interested in pathetic little point-scoring games.

*yawn


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## gabi (Jun 28, 2010)

I dont quite get this thread.

ed, you're celebrating the ousting of the most liberal PM the aussies have ever had on the basis that the ouster was born in your country. bonkers.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> I dont quite get this thread.
> 
> ed, you're celebrating the ousting of the most liberal PM the aussies have ever had on the basis that the ouster was born in your country. bonkers.


I must have missed the bit where I'm "celebrating" anything.


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## gabi (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> I must have missed the bit where I'm "celebrating" anything.



Check the thread title


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## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

Well, the thread title would appear to be at least a teeny, eeny bit celebratory about the whole thing.


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## mattie (Jun 28, 2010)

Was it perhaps sarcastic?


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> Check the thread title


Do Cardiff City fans all go "tidy" when their team score then?



The word can mean many things - sometimes sarcastic, sometimes positive, sometimes no different to saying "alright" - so perhaps you should read _the words I've posted up in this thread_ instead of trying to misrepresent my opinion based on your limited understanding of the usage of one slang word?


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 28, 2010)

Tbf, tidy is a multipurpose word west of Offas Dyke. Hence my user name.


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## gabi (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Do Cardiff City fans all go "tidy" when their team score then?
> 
> 
> 
> The word can mean many things - sometimes sarcastic, sometimes positive, sometimes no different to saying "alright" - so perhaps you should read _the words I've posted up in this thread_ instead of trying to misrepresent my opinion based on your limited understanding of the usage of one slang word?



So which context were you using this multi-faceted adjective in then?


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> So which context were you using this multi-faceted adjective in then?


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> And there you go again with your lies. Where have I said I was "proud" of her appointment?



The 'oooohh gotta make you proud' was ME, get it, ME, being sarcastic. 



> My personal politics are irrelevant to this thread, although it's becoming very apparent that you're more interested in pathetic little point-scoring games.
> 
> *yawn



Where am I 'pointscoring'? Or is wondering why you'd be happy to see/celebrate/pleased with/noting someone get to be PM purely on the basis that they're from a working-calss area of Barry-her actuial politics notwithstanding-is point scoring? We are truly in the arena of the unwell....


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> We are truly in the arena of the unwell....


Give it a rest please.


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> I must have missed the bit where I'm "celebrating" anything.



Yeash, these quotes are dripping with criticism and sadness she got the PM job..... 



editor said:


> A woman from a working class family from the shithole that is Barry in south Wales *managed to overcome Australia's built in misogyny and get the top job*.
> 
> Ever been to Barry? If you had, *you'd realise it's a bit of an achievement*.





editor said:


> *I'm pleased that a woman has managed to make it to the top of the pile in a country like Australia*, and I think it's an achievement when that woman is a working class immigrant from a particularly rough part of Wales who cites Bevan as one of her political heroes.



Yup, nothing celebratory in that at all....


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> Yeash, these quotes are dripping with criticism and sadness she got the PM job.....
> 
> Yup, nothing celebratory in that at all....


It is entirely possible to acknowledge a politician's achievements without personally endorsing and applauding every single subsequent policy decision, you daft, one-dimensional wazzock.

Here's an example for the slow witted: I can admire, applaud - heck, even _celebrate_ - the skill and achievements of footballers like Ronaldo, Beckham and Rooney etc, but that doesn't mean I like their personalities, their politics or their attitudes.

Understand now or do you need smaller words?


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> It is entirely possible to acknowledge a politician's achievements without personally endorsing and applauding every single subsequent policy decision, you daft, one-dimensional wazzock.
> 
> Here's an example for the slow witted: I can admire, applaud - heck, even _celebrate_ - the skill and achievements of footballers like Ronaldo, Beckham and Rooney etc, but that doesn't mean I like their personalities, their politics or their attitudes.
> 
> Understand now or do you need smaller words?



So we've gone back to recognising, ney even celebrating, in a very minor way someones achievements? Yes, of course you can, without question. But is it really an 'achivement', or more accurately here, worthy of celebration given what she's already said and intends to do? I woulda thought that would come into play aswell.... We should celebrate John Major aswell then, after all poor Brixton boy does good.... 

Nye Bevan her 'hero', well worth celebrating without doubt. Julia Gillard not really.


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> It is entirely possible to acknowledge a politician's achievements without personally endorsing and applauding every single subsequent policy decision, *you daft, one-dimensional wazzock*.



But celebrating her because she's Welsh is so not 1 dimensional....


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## mattie (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> It is entirely possible to acknowledge a politician's achievements without personally endorsing and applauding every single subsequent policy decision, you daft, one-dimensional wazzock.
> 
> Here's an example for the slow witted: I can admire, applaud - heck, even _celebrate_ - the skill and achievements of footballers like Ronaldo, Beckham and Rooney etc, but that doesn't mean I like their personalities, their politics or their attitudes.
> 
> Understand now or do you need smaller words?



This isn't quite the same.  You were admiring her becoming PM (and you were), which she's achieved precisely because of her political stance.

Ronaldo isn't a good player because he's a twat.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> But celebrating her because she's Welsh is so not 1 dimensional....


I see you're back to this 'celebrating' nonsense again. 

Oh well. I can see your mind is made up whatever I write, so I'll leave you to your own weird version of reality.


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> I see you're back to this 'celebrating' nonsense again.



Ok, if not celebrating, what word would you use to call starting a thread to note, point to, refer to, mark someone's 'achievement'? What word would you prefer?


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

mattie said:


> This isn't quite the same.  You were admiring her becoming PM (and you were), which she's achieved precisely because of her political stance.


I was actually acknowledging the fact that a woman immigrant from a working class background managed to overcome the odds to get the PM job in Australia, actually. I think that's quite an achievement,

However, that does not add up to a full and total endorsement of her political opinions and beliefs, no matter how you spin it.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> Ok, if not celebrating, what word would you use to call starting a thread to note, point to, refer to, mark someone's 'achievement'? What word would you prefer?


I thought my opening post rather laid out my response:
_
"Who would have thought that a girl from Barry would go so far?!"_

Do you know Barry? If you did you'd probably be as surprised as me to see how far she's got.


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 28, 2010)

The character of Tom Hagen in the Godfather was rumoured to have been based on Murray Humphreys aka Murray the Hump or The Camel, consigliere to Al Capone and in the Chicago Mob. The Hump was allegedly from Rhyl originally. Tidy.







_The author does not condone extortion, racketeering or shiny suits_


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## mattie (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> I was actually acknowledging the fact that a woman immigrant from a working class background managed to overcome the odds to get the PM job in Australia, actually. I think that's quite an achievement,
> 
> However, that does not add up to a full and total endorsement of her political opinions and beliefs, no matter how you spin it.





I'm not spinning anything.

I'm simply saying that your analogy was god-awful.


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## mattie (Jun 28, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> The character of Tom Hagen in the Godfather was rumoured to have been based on Murray Humphreys aka Murray the Hump or The Camel, consigliere to Al Capone and in the Chicago Mob. The Hump was allegedly from Rhyl originally. Tidy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What about nifty hats?


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 28, 2010)

mattie said:


> What about nifty hats?



I love hats


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## mattie (Jun 28, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> I love hats



You, Sir, should be PM.


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## Fedayn (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> I thought my opening post rather laid out my response:
> _
> "Who would have thought that a girl from Barry would go so far?!"_
> 
> Do you know Barry? If you did you'd probably be as surprised as me to see how far she's got.



I know of it, yeah working-class area numerous social issues. Yes she's PM, very good, but given what she says and is gonna do, i'd have thought, even expected, someone with pretty progressive politics such as yourself to be less inclined to think it an achievement and more inclined to be concerned at her actions not her birthplace, expecially given she's the child of immigrants what she intends to do re immigration.....


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> I know of it, yeah working-class area numerous social issues. Yes she's PM, very good, but given what she says and is gonna do, i'd have thought, even expected, someone with pretty progressive politics such as yourself to be less inclined to think it an achievement and more inclined to be concerned at her actions not her birthplace, expecially given she's the child of immigrants what she intends to do re immigration.....


I'll be sure to criticise her policies in the appropriate thread if I feel the need, but seeing as she's only been in office for, what,_ four days_ I'd rather wait to see what she does first.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

mattie said:


> I'm not spinning anything.
> 
> I'm simply saying that your analogy was god-awful.


So you can't admire a footballer but dislike their personal opinions?


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## mattie (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> So you can't admire a footballer but dislike their personal opinions?





This is actually quite funny.

You really, really should get into politics.  You'd be superb.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

mattie said:


> This is actually quite funny.
> 
> You really, really should get into politics.  You'd be superb.


Nice bluff, but I'd say your (non) answer right there is a far better example of swerving an uncomfortable question.


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## mattie (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Nice bluff, but I'd say your (non) answer right there is a far better example of swerving an uncomfortable question.





I'll spell it out, I can see you're struggling:

A footballer can reach the top of his/her profession without his/her politics having any bearing.

A politician, by definition, cannot.  

You see why your analogy fails horrendously?


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

mattie said:


> I'll spell it out, I can see you're struggling:
> 
> A footballer can reach the top of his/her profession without his/her politics having any bearing.
> 
> ...


The point - which you've missed so spectacularly - is that it's entirely possible to acknowledge someone's achievements without necessarily approving of their politics or policies. 

It's really quite a simple concept so I don't know why you're struggling with it so much.


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 28, 2010)

Can't we just talk about the Welsh Mafia now? It'd probably be less tedious.


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## mattie (Jun 28, 2010)

editor said:


> The point - which you've missed so spectacularly - is that it's entirely possible to acknowledge someone's achievements without necessarily approving their politics.
> 
> It's really quite a simple concept so I don't know why you're struggling with it so much.



Without wishing to resort too heavily to the timeworn dredging of past posts, I think it's worth repeating.



> Here's an example for the slow witted: I can admire, applaud - heck, even celebrate - the skill and achievements of footballers like Ronaldo, Beckham and Rooney etc, but that doesn't mean I like their personalities, their politics or their attitudes.



You're commenting on the skill of footballers.  How they perform their job.  No need to look at anything more than how they kick a football.  Certainly no need to consider their personal qualities or politics.

The analogy is therefore commenting on the skill of politicians.  How they perform their job.  Politics are pretty important to politicians, I'd have said.


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## 1927 (Jun 28, 2010)

mattie said:


> I'll spell it out, I can see you're struggling:
> 
> *A footballer can reach the top of his/her  profession without his/her politics having any bearing.*A politician, by definition, cannot.
> 
> You see why your analogy fails horrendously?




From the verbal kicking I have had on here for being a fan of Paolo Di Canio i would suggest that that statement is incorrect!


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

mattie said:


> You're commenting on the skill of footballers.  How they perform their job.  No need to look at anything more than how they kick a football.  Certainly no need to consider their personal qualities or politics.


FFS. I was *giving an example* of how you may admire or acknowledge a person's achievements without necessarily endorsing their personality, their politics or their beliefs. Quite why this concept seems beyond your understanding is quite baffling.

If someone says that they admire Jerry Lee Lewis, do you think that they're automatically endorsing incestuous paedophilia?


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 29, 2010)

editor said:


> If someone says that they admire Jerry Lee Lewis, do you think that they're automatically endorsing incestuous paedophilia?



Blatant crypto-familial-noncery


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## gabi (Jun 29, 2010)

Hitler was a fucking Tidy orator. Gotta admire those skillz. What he used those talents for, well...


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## Hollis (Jun 29, 2010)

gabi said:


> Hitler was a fucking Tidy orator. Gotta admire those skillz. What he used those talents for, well...




I think Linz tends to keep quite about him now. Probably thought differently in '33 though.


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## Fedayn (Jul 2, 2010)

Australia agrees deal to reduce new mining tax 



> But a compromise agreement negotiated by his successor, Julia Gillard, has now reduced the rate to 30% for coal and iron ore miners.


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## editor (Jul 2, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> Australia agrees deal to reduce new mining tax


..and...


> But petroleum and gas operations will still pay a pre-existing 40% tax rate, the government said.
> 
> But that will now cover onshore oil and gas projects as well as the offshore operations previously subject to it.
> 
> ...


So what do you think of this deal?


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## Fedayn (Jul 2, 2010)

editor said:


> ..and...
> So what do you think of this deal?



You mean the deal where she rolled over to the big mining concerns? Pretty shabby frankly.


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## editor (Jul 2, 2010)

Fedayn said:


> You mean the deal where she rolled over to the big mining concerns? Pretty shabby frankly.


So you think it would have been a better option for her to refuse any kind of compromise and watch labour get kicked out of office, to be replaced by a party that would most likely roll over ever more?

You see, it's not your opinion that counts here, it's the voters of Australia - and they seem to have made their feelings known over the issue.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/gillard-reclaims-winning-lead-20100702-ztex.html?autostart=1


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## Fedayn (Jul 2, 2010)

editor said:


> So you think it would have been a better option for her to refuse any kind of compromise and watch labour get kicked out of office, to be replaced by a party that would most likely roll over ever more?
> 
> You see, it's not your opinion that counts here, it's the voters of Australia - and they seem to have made their feelings known over the issue.
> 
> http://www.theage.com.au/national/gillard-reclaims-winning-lead-20100702-ztex.html?autostart=1



My opinion is that, she rolled over and allowed big mining to get away with paying less tax. It's an opinion based on fact, not difficult really. 
As for the voters issue, as relevant as your opinion when Thatcher kept winning, after all it's what the votes wanted.... See how ridiculous your remarks are?


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 21, 2010)

The girl from Barry doesn't seem to have gone down to well with the Oz electorate...


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## Fedayn (Aug 22, 2010)

editor said:


> So you think it would have been a better option for her to refuse any kind of compromise and watch labour get kicked out of office, to be replaced by a party that would most likely roll over ever more?
> 
> You see, it's not your opinion that counts here, it's the voters of Australia - and they seem to have made their feelings known over the issue.
> 
> http://www.theage.com.au/national/gillard-reclaims-winning-lead-20100702-ztex.html?autostart=1


 
Yeah they have made their feelings known and funnily enough the voters of Australia don't seem too impressed..... Shame they didn't think it soooo brilliant that a woman from Barry was Prime Minister....


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## Gromit (Aug 24, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> The girl from Barry doesn't seem to have gone down to well with the Oz electorate...


 
Has she tried to introduce a law that curry sauce must have sultanas in it? 
As per the evil custom they follow at Barry Island.


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 24, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Has she tried to introduce a law that curry sauce must have sultanas in it?
> As per the evil custom they follow at Barry Island.


 
Chip shop curry sauce _should_ have sultanas. These savages need civilising damnit.


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## William of Walworth (Aug 24, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Has she tried to introduce a law that curry sauce must have sultanas in it?
> *As per the evil custom they follow at Barry Island*.



This is true????  

I've not been to Barry .... yet ...


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 25, 2010)

William of Walworth said:


> This is true????
> 
> I've not been to Barry .... yet ...


 
Doesn't all chip shop curry sauce have raisins in? Or is this a Welsh thing?


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## Gromit (Aug 25, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> Doesn't all chip shop curry sauce have raisins in? Or is this a Welsh thing?


 
Its not something I've ever come across in Cardiff or Pontypridd.

I'm sure I've seen Fruity Curry Sauce elsewhere occasionally. I've always assumed that it was Barry ex-pats that owned the establishment. Barry Island being the place I first came across it and having burned into my conciousness the continual disappointment on future visits that I couldn't have proper curry there.


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## DownwardDog (Mar 8, 2011)

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...australian/comments/newspoll_history_repeats/

Nine months later on and Gillard's poll numbers are worse than Rudd's were when she bladed him. The Australian public have failed to understand the nuanced subtlety of her position on a Carbon Dioxide emissions tax. When she went on TV before the election and said we definitely wouldn't have one the electorate failed to grasp that actually meant we would be getting one quite soon. Meanwhile former ACTU gimp and Harry Potter lookalike Greg Combet lurks in the sidelines honing the ceremonial ALP leader dispatching dagger.


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## phildwyer (Mar 8, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> I've not been to Barry .... yet ...



You'll love it William!  Just your kind of town.


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## 1927 (Mar 14, 2011)

If she's a proper Barry girl like the ones I seem to get involved with then I'm not surprised its all falling apart. A year in charge and she's been found out, these Barry girls can only hide their utter lunacy for so long before being found out! I'd say she's done pretty well to hide it this long!


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## ddraig (Jan 26, 2012)

had to be rescued from an Aboriginal rights protest by bodyguards and riot plod! 
and lost a shoe





dramatic pics!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...police-from-angry-protesters-115875-23720900/


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## 1927 (Jan 26, 2012)

ddraig said:


> had to be rescued from an Aboriginal rights protest by bodyguards and riot plod!
> and lost a shoe
> 
> 
> ...


Obviously not a REAL Barry girl then, she'd have been rescuing the riot police if she was!


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## editor (Jan 26, 2012)

Looks more like they're having a little cwtch.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2012)

If you watch the video there seems to be an awesome overreaction from the police going on.


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## albionism (Jan 29, 2012)

indeed...attacked by protesters my arse


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## DownwardDog (Feb 3, 2012)

There was an interesting article in The A this morning by Denis Shanahan. Amazingly the ALP is now moving toward the consensus that having Rudd assassinate Gillard shortly after the inevitable bloodbath of the Queensland elections on March 24th will be preferable to battling on with her particular brand of accident prone treachery leading the party and government.

Labor are going to get absolutely slaughtered in the 2013 Federals.


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## redsquirrel (Feb 22, 2012)

ALP continuing its trend for suicide.

Rudd resigning as Foreign Minister. Either because he's going to have a tilt at the leadership or because he was going to be pushed.

EDIT: Didn't this thread used to be in World Politics?


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## redsquirrel (Feb 22, 2012)

ALP politicos ripping each other apart  , outright civil war. Whoever wins the party is going to be in even worse state than they are presently.

If Abbott doesn't win from this position, my god.


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## DownwardDog (Feb 22, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> If Abbott doesn't win from this position, my god.


 
He'll win, the only question is when. I'm not sure the ALP can stagger on in government for another 18 months. Even if Rudd manages to see off "Juliar" then he'll have to stitch together the governing coalition anew. Obviously the motley band of trots, tankies and bicurious crackpots in the Greens will be up for it but he'll also have to wrangle the narcissistic independents like Wilkie, Oakeshott, etc. All the time resisting the inevitable media firestorm that'll be demanding a Federal election in order to legitimise KR's premiership. Messy.

It'd be great if we can install a LibNat coalition government by July as the much hated Carbon Tax will never see the light of day then.


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## FaradayCaged (Mar 11, 2012)

Julia Gillard = Hot?

Yes please.

Me = weird?

Your choice .


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