# I've Had Enough Of The DWP!



## Bakunin (May 9, 2011)

A few months ago I put in the standard claim pack for DLA to continue my pre-existing claim for middle rate care and lower rate mobility on DLA (which was what I was already getting and the DWP had previously agreed I'm entitled to). The DWP took precisely 11 days before sending back a decision that I'm now, despite my health having in no way improved, only entitled to the lowest rates for mobility and care which has led to my losing about 330 pounds a month off my income.

Despite having taken only 11 days to render that decision, they now claim that (having submitted my change of circumstances claim pack 7 weeks ago, having been denied the right to lodge an appeal because I didn't lodge it within a month owing to my being very ill over the winter) it would take them 11 weeks to render a decision on whether I can go back to having the previously awarded rates and get my money backdated to November when I filed the original claim pack.

I've called them numerous times over the past 7 weeks only to be told every time that my claim is still in the decision maker's pending queue and that I'll just have to wait until I recieve a decision and then, if I'm turned down, I can take it to a tribunal.

Now. if it took them only 11 days to render a decision that halved my monthly income then why does it take them 11 weeks before even letting me know whether or not that decision has been overturned? Either they're overwhelmed with claims or they're not, they can't claim one thing one minute and then the opposite the next.

With this in mind, I'll be ringing the DLA office again this morning and am seriously, seriously considering informing them that if I don't recieve a decision within one week I'll be firing off complaints to the DWP Customer Services department, the Parliamentary Ombudsman and any other official body that would have jurisdiction. I'm also considering whether not to mention my links to the local media and asking them whether or not making some calls to journalists of my acquaintance might not encourage them to speed things up a little.

Thoughts? Opinions?


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## Glitter (May 9, 2011)

Write to your MP. If an MP gets involved things are usually sorted pretty quickly ime.


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## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2011)

The reason that there's an interminable wait for a review decision as opposed to the original decision is because the lard-brained cunts appear to have taken to trying it on with a greater percentage of renewals, and have developed a fucking massive backlog as a result, something that apparently they didn't see coming. 

While complaining far and wide helps, it's not a panacea.


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## Bakunin (May 17, 2011)

Here's the latest since the OP:

I've rung them once a week, every week, and every single time I've rung them not only is my application 'still with the decision makers', they've also quoted me a different time frame (every time I've rung them since my first call to them nearly five weeks ago) as to how long it will take just to get a decision (never mind whether or not it will be a decision that I can actually live with). During various phone calls I've been told it will be 11 weeks, 8 to 11 weeks, 9 to 12 weeks and yesterday I was told 8 to 11 weeks again. And what happened when I rang them just now, I hear you ask? Well, it was this:

They're still looking at applications from JANUARY and FEBRUARY, apparently, so mine won't even have made it out their presumably overflowing 'IN' tray yet. I was quoted yet another time frame in which to expect a decision which, since yesterday, has changed from 8 to 11 weeks to 11 to 15 weeks instead. Would I be right in thinking that, when asked by claimants how long it will take for them to deign to make a decision (which may or may not leave me better or worse off than before) they seem to be simply plucking figures out of thin air because either they're intolerably behind with their own paperwork or that they simply don't know what's actually going on even in their own department?

Well, sod it. I've been polite, I've been reasonable, I've asked nicely and they've simply wasted my time and boosted a phone bill I can ill afford anyway and all for nothing. I'll be calling my MP's office for an appointment at Friday's surgery as soon as his office opens, I'll be filing formal complaints to any department and official that has jurisdiction and, if all else fails, there's a friendly journalist who would no doubt be most interested if I should just happen to give him a call for old time's sake.

Not that I expect complaining will actually have much effect, if any, as government departments seem to have a highly developed sense of when to avoid anyone taking any responsibility whatsoever and all covering their own backs rather than even accepting that there's a problem, never mind actually doing something useful that might actually solve it.


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 17, 2011)

When you finally get some decision, you should consider making a complaint using the Financial Redress for Injustice resulting from Maladministration (pdf file) - I wouldn't advise making a complaint yet, as the situation is on-going. 

Asking your MP to get invovled can, indeed, speed things up, as well as opening up the possibility of using the Parliamentary and Health Services Ombudsman scheme as well.


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## Throbbing Angel (May 17, 2011)

You could try getting John Domokos at the Gruniad interested

He has done a few articles recently on DWP cuts:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/johndomokos

His contact details are at the end of this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/apr/11/jobcentres-benefit-sanctions

Good luck and definitely use the Financial Redress for Injustice resulting from Maladministration form.  I applied for DLA recently after being ill/skint/in and out of work/living off my wife's earnings since 2005 - a big NO - so demoralised I didn't even appeal.


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## Divisive Cotton (May 17, 2011)

> Either they're overwhelmed with claims



You'll that the backroom admin staff have been slashed and as a direct consequence there are now massive backlogs of work

I had to wait two months from my local council for a decision on housing benefit


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## _angel_ (May 17, 2011)

It does sound like in the first instance, nobody even read your form and they've been told to automatically downgrade people's claims. 
Def get your MP involved. I got a lady from welfare advise from the council to fill out the form for Jude and he was awarded a higher rate - if you can get someone like that involved it really helps, of course, they're shutting these places down as fast as they can do now.



> I had to wait two months from my local council for a decision on housing benefit


 I waited four months when I moved here in 2004, before any of the cuts! I had the council trying to evict me before I could even move in! (Long story). The only thing that apparently could speed it up was a "court date", like I needed that kind of stress.


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## Bakunin (May 20, 2011)

Well, I'll dropping this little missive off at my MP's local office tomorrow and I'll see what comes of it:

Dear Sir,

I am one of your constituents and feel obliged, albeit reluctantly as you no doubt have a vast workload already. to ask for your help in resolving an ongoing crisis regarding my disability benefits and my ongoing struggles with the DWP.

Last November I put in my renewal claim pack to renew my existing claim for the middle rate care component and the lower rate mobility component of my Disability Living Allowance. I was informed in a letter I received within eleven days that my existing claim had been downgraded to lowest rates of both mobility and care, this in spite of the fact that I informed the DWP that my condition had not improved in any way and nor is it likely to as I have several chronic and permanent health problems that can only be managed and not actually cured. This decision was made without my having been examined or even visited by a doctor and without any contact with me from the DWP or anyone else.

Due to ill health I was unable to lodge an appeal within the 28 day deadline and, when I did feel well enough to tackle the DWP, so they summarily denied my leave to appeal and stated that I would have to fill out another claim pack informing them of a change of circumstances. This I did and the DWP sent a letter acknowledging receipt of the pack on 21/03/11. To today's date, and despite numerous telephone enquiries on my part and at my own expense, the DWP still haven't made a decision on my claim and when I telephoned them this morning I was told that they are still deciding on claims filed in January (with a couple of residual claims from December) and that it will likely be a few weeks before they even issue a decision on my claim at all. Without a decision I am thus unable to proceed in pursuing my case to regain my former benefit rates and backdated payments of same.

Regarding the attitude of the DWP, I can only describe it as being unhelpful. Whenever I have called them each person I spoke to has offered a different time frame in which I might expect a decision, ranging from 8 to 17 weeks, they have made no effort to offer me other options for filing an official complaint (I have had to research this myself on my own time) and it seems extremely odd that they could almost halve my monthly income by taking only a few days to make that decision while so far having taken 11 weeks (and counting) to decide whether or not to revoke that decision and return to me the benefit rates that they themselves originally agreed I was already entitled to.

I'm not a greedy or unreasonable man, nor do I have any desire to work the system. I merely want what the DWP themselves originally agreed I am entitled to and it would be nice if they could also deliver what they agreed to in a reasonable time frame or at least keep me reasonably informed so it wouldn't be me having to pursue them at my own cost in time and money, neither of which I have in abundance with which to pursue them in this matter.

I can be contacted on my home number, at my email address or at my postal address in case either yourself or one of your staff should wish to discuss this problem further.




Lets see if an inquiry from an MP might concentrate their minds a little. John Domokos has a copy emailed to him as well.


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## Bakunin (May 20, 2011)

I sent my missive to my MP via email as well and have just had a reply stating that he is 'very concerned' and asking for my NI number so they can look into my case further. Will keep folk posted as to how things progress, but I certainly wasn't expecting so prompt a reply and one that promises quick action. Not getting my hopes up just yet, but things certainly seem to moving a lot more rapidly than they have been previously.


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## RubyToogood (May 20, 2011)

Throbbing Angel said:


> I applied for DLA recently after being ill/skint/in and out of work/living off my wife's earnings since 2005 - a big NO - so demoralised I didn't even appeal.



Fucking appeal! It's always been the case that they routinely turn people down first try and you have to appeal. Don't let the fuckers save themselves money you're entitled to!


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## ViolentPanda (May 20, 2011)

RubyToogood said:


> Fucking appeal! It's always been the case that they routinely turn people down first try and you have to appeal. Don't let the fuckers save themselves money you're entitled to!


 
This is something I constantly reiterate.

And yes, I know how absolutely fucking dispiriting it is to get knocked back, but those cunts at the DWP *rely* on a certain percentage of people being too dejected to appeal. Across all benefits except HB and CTB they save between £5-10 billion *per year* from people being too embarrassed to apply for benefits, or to do dispirited to appeal once they've been knocked back. 

Fuck 'em. They're quick enough to take your tax and NI contributions while you're working, or to rely on friends and family providing the functions that the govt originally promised to take care of. Why should you give them an easy ride just because you're unable to contribute at the moment, and they've arbitrarily (because the majority of the time, if you investigate a refusal, it *is* an arbitrary reason that is given, not one germane to the claimant) knocked you back on claiming an *entitlement*?


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## Bakunin (May 20, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> This is something I constantly reiterate.
> 
> And yes, I know how absolutely fucking dispiriting it is to get knocked back, but those cunts at the DWP *rely* on a certain percentage of people being too dejected to appeal. Across all benefits except HB and CTB they save between £5-10 billion *per year* from people being too embarrassed to apply for benefits, or to do dispirited to appeal once they've been knocked back.
> 
> Fuck 'em. They're quick enough to take your tax and NI contributions while you're working, or to rely on friends and family providing the functions that the govt originally promised to take care of. Why should you give them an easy ride just because you're unable to contribute at the moment, and they've arbitrarily (because the majority of the time, if you investigate a refusal, it *is* an arbitrary reason that is given, not one germane to the claimant) knocked you back on claiming an *entitlement*?


 
Absolutely. And don't listen to anyone who acts as though you shouldn't claim what you're entitled to, or makes out that you're not a taxpayer so shouldn't push for what's rightfully yours either. Everybody pays tax whether they're working or not. Even unemployed and retired people pay taxes through VAT, tobacco, alcohol and all manner of other taxes that we all pay regardless of whether or not we happen to be in employment. So don't let anyone feel you shouldn't claim what's yours and push as hard as needed until you get it. 

Also, while you have to appeal within 28 days, you can ask them to look at your claim again owing to your circumstances being different for up to 12 months after your initial claim. So push for what you can get and don't feel bad about claiming what's rightfully yours.


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## Bakunin (May 23, 2011)

Right, well I rang the DWP (again) and still no decision. SO I rang their Customer Services Manager only to be told the following:

1. They won't comment on why I've been told so many different timeframes for when I can expect a decision.

2. It isn't their responsibility that I'm having serious financial problems as they only disburse funds based on my claim and in relation to my care and mobility needs.

3. Apparently, it's my prerogative to have involved my MP.

4. That there's still no definite timeframe for when I can expect a decision.

5. That they won't comment on why I was told that they're still dealing with claims from as far back as December.


I've emailed my MP asking for him to let me know if there's any progress on my claim, seeing as the DWP seem so intent on stonewalling me at every opportunity, and it seems as though I'm pretty well known at the DLA department because now, when I ring and they ask for my name, they immediately ask me if it's related to my DLA claim before asking me anything else. I've just finished writing a formal complaint to the DLA Customer Services department (although I suspect that, seeing as I'm having to send said formal complaint to the very office that I'm complaining about, I needn't expect action, let alone positive action, beyond yet another form letter apologising for the delay) and I'll be posting that off today.

As to whether or not I file a separate claim for malfeasance in public administration along with a demand for compensation for this ridiculous farce and the trouble it's caused me, I'll probably wait until I've actually got a decision before I do that. What will almost certainly happen is that the DLA Customer Services bods will not respond with a satisfactory response and thus I'll end up appealing to the Chief Executive of the Disability and Carers Service and then, if the Chief Exec doesn't give a satisfactory response either, hope that the same Chief Exec gives me leave to appeal to the relevant Government Ombudsman. Beyond that I don't see what else I can do short of threatening to seek Legal Aid (assuming I can actually get Legal Aid, that is) and sue them on whatever grounds are open to me. And that's something I really wouldn't want to have to go through.

The ball's back in their court for the next couple of days and then I'll be ringing them again.


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## trevhagl (May 23, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> A few months ago I put in the standard claim pack for DLA to continue my pre-existing claim for middle rate care and lower rate mobility on DLA (which was what I was already getting and the DWP had previously agreed I'm entitled to). The DWP took precisely 11 days before sending back a decision that I'm now, despite my health having in no way improved, only entitled to the lowest rates for mobility and care which has led to my losing about 330 pounds a month off my income.
> 
> Despite having taken only 11 days to render that decision, they now claim that (having submitted my change of circumstances claim pack 7 weeks ago, having been denied the right to lodge an appeal because I didn't lodge it within a month owing to my being very ill over the winter) it would take them 11 weeks to render a decision on whether I can go back to having the previously awarded rates and get my money backdated to November when I filed the original claim pack.
> 
> ...


 
raise hell, use all channels, MPs are good because even if your MP was Tory they don't like to be bothered


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 23, 2011)

trevhagl said:


> raise hell, use all channels, MPs are good because even if your MP was Tory they don't like to be bothered


 
They'll pass it on to their caseworkers, although it's a shit system that you can bash your head against a wall, but it takes a call from the MPs office to make them pull their finger out their ass.


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## Bakunin (May 23, 2011)

I just got this back:



Thank you for your email. ****** and I do receive approximately 80 to 120 correspondences a day
so I am afraid it does take a little while to answer everyone.

However, I did contact the DLA on Friday and they have now come back to me regarding your case.

They have informed me that the onus was on you to appeal and if you could not have done so
due to the fact that you were ill, you should have emailed them to let them know so they would
have delayed it.  Unfortunately they could not delay it.

They look at the information in the pack you send in and that is what they base their decision on
if they feel there is enough information.  They therefore do not have to contact the applicant. 

They have informed me that even if you had previously been entitled to the benefits they looked
at your claim as a fresh claim and decided, with the information in the pack, that you were no
longer entitled to them.  It is not up to them to ask any further questions or ascertain any further
information.

The time scale for replying works on date order and it normally takes eleven weeks for them to
reply.  They received your application on March 25th, so you can expect to hear by June 10th.  If
you do not hear by then, please do contact ****** again and I will follow your case up for you.

I do not know if you filled in your application pack yourself but, as you know, it is very difficult to do
so it is always best to ask a professional person to help.

I do hope this information is helpful to you, but if you require any further help or information
please do not hesitate to contact ****** again.



So, that's the MP avenue seemingly closed to me. I've sent a formal complaint to the DWP and now it looks as though I'll have to go down the long-winded route for having sent a complaint to the DLA bods, then go to the Disability and Carers Service Chief Executive and then on to the Ombudsman, assuming the Chief Exec gives me leave to complain to the Ombudsman.


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## ymu (May 27, 2011)

Shit letter from the MP, tbh. _"If you're a filthy pleb with no money, find someone with brains to do your paperwork for you. For free. And sooner than your health would have allowed you to do it yourself"_ 

This strikes me as a possible Wednesbury unreasonableness situation. I can't see how they can allow bureaucrats to make decisions based solely on paperwork in which nothing has changed. And the fact that they're being inundated with appeals as a result tends to back that up.

Which lawyers have been making noises about Atos and DLA? Might be worth looking at a judicial review of their procedures. They can't pass their budget cuts onto their customers by fucking them around like the under-funded incompetents they are.


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## ericjarvis (May 27, 2011)

The thing that bugs me about the DWP is that their people change the paperwork on claims to show a diagnosis other than the one in the original claim. That's happened to me. Some clerk at the DWP altered the claim form to put diabetes as the reason I was claiming IB, when the original claim form and doctor's evidence stated that the reason I was unfit to work was stress related eczema. That's a DWP clerk with NO MEDICAL QUALIFICATIONS altering an official record of a medical diagnosis without even consulting with the claimant. If that isn't illegal it bloody should be.


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## ymu (May 27, 2011)

Judicial review. Wednesbury unreasonableness.

They can't. But we'll need judges to agree if they are to be stopped.

There's a few legal actions in the pipeline, aren't there? Anyone know any details - I've just seen the odd press snippet.


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## sjk64 (May 30, 2011)

used to work for dwp.used to be an mps letter had da bosses runnin about like headless chickens.desperate to make sure no shit hit them.always made me chuckle.twas so easy to wind the fukerz up...no,i gave it to you a month ago.there it is...little victories.


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## Bakunin (May 30, 2011)

sjk64 said:


> used to work for dwp.used to be an mps letter had da bosses runnin about like headless chickens.desperate to make sure no shit hit them.always made me chuckle.twas so easy to wind the fukerz up...no,i gave it to you a month ago.there it is...little victories.


 
I've still heard nothing from the DWP, they haven't even acknowledged the complaint I sent them yet. Still, I only have to wait until the 10th of June before making another call to my MP and then they say they'll talk to the DWP again. I considered going to the Disability Minister, but as it appears that she's one of the more enthusiastic proponents of the welfare reforms I'd say that's probably a dead duck even before I send the email. I'll send it anyway though on the off0chance that something positive comes out of it.


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## Bakunin (May 31, 2011)

Well, they rang me (the team leader, no less) to talk about my complaint and guess what? 

Remember that I only asked them to look at my decision again because I was told that I couldn't appeal because I didn't file an appeal within 28 days of the original decision? And that I've been ringing them once or twice a week for over two months now, at my own expense? Well, the nice chap from the DWP has now told me, months later, that I actually CAN appeal because I'm within 13 months of the decision date and is sending me out a nice, prepaid envelop in which to send them my written appeal ASAP.

Does anyone at the DWP actually KNOW their own rule book, or am I missing something here?


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## Greebo (Jun 1, 2011)

Good luck with the appeal.  

Remember to send it "signed for" (even if it means paying for postage yourself) so that nobody can say that it didn't arrive, and keep a copy so that it'll matter less if it gets lost accidentally on purpose.

"Nice chap" and "DWP" in the same sentence -  and


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## Bakunin (Jun 8, 2011)

Well, my 51st phone call has finally got me some vaguely useful information. Apparently they're up to dealing with claims from 14/03/11, so I should be able to expect a decision some time next week. Apparently, and always assuming (a very big assumption, I know) that they actually give me a decision I can live with. So, I'm going to finish writing the appeal now and file that as well so I'm as likely as likely can be to at least get something out of all this mither and I'll see how things go from here.

E2A: The appeal has now gone in the post so should be with the DWP by Friday at the latest. Fingers crossed.


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## ymu (Jun 9, 2011)

Needs to be a high profile EDM about back pay, interest and penalties for every successful appeal. People can lose everything to this shit and get zero restitution. 

Would your MP be that keen, or is it a 'usual suspects' job?


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## Fedayn (Jun 9, 2011)

Greebo said:


> "Nice chap" and "DWP" in the same sentence -  and


 
Yeah, after all everyone who works for the DWP is a cunt....


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## Fedayn (Jun 9, 2011)

ymu said:


> Needs to be a high profile EDM about back pay, interest and penalties for every successful appeal. People can lose everything to this shit and get zero restitution.
> 
> Would your MP be that keen, or is it a 'usual suspects' job?


 
There is already a Special Payments Unit that deals with compensation/special payments especially if charges/difficulties are incurred as a result of DWP maladministration/mistakes/actions that contravene DWP regs.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Yeah, after all everyone who works for the DWP is a cunt....


 
That's right, you are. 

Get over it. She didn't call you (or any other DWP worker) a cunt.

I know you Cheshire types, being born close to Scouseland, are a bit "emotional", but it's really no excuse for developing a persecution complex. Anyone would think that everyone was out to get you. 


Now, off to the JC+. Where'd I leave my hatchet...?


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> There is already a Special Payments Unit that deals with compensation/special payments especially if charges/difficulties are incurred as a result of DWP maladministration/mistakes/actions that contravene DWP regs.


 
What's *really* needed is for the minister responsible to have to sit in a proper "hot seat" that administers an electric shock to the genitals for each £100,000 his dept mis-directs/withholds. 

Works for me!


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## Greebo (Jun 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Yeah, after all everyone who works for the DWP is a cunt....


 
You're so binary  - either decent or cunt and nothing in between 

You know what?  Once upon what feels like another lifetime, I believed that all people working for the DWP (or the equivalent at that time) were honest decent people, who did their jobs as best they could and from whom I had nothing to fear.  I learnt otherwise.  The hard way.  More than a few times.


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## Bakunin (Jun 9, 2011)

Dare I ask how long an appeal will take to be heard?


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## Greebo (Jun 9, 2011)

AFAIK it _should_ be weeks, rather than months, but the ways things are now it could be anyone's guess.


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## Bakunin (Jun 9, 2011)

Greebo said:


> AFAIK it _should_ be weeks, rather than months, but the ways things are now it could be anyone's guess.


 
Well, I'll be giving them a call tomorrow anyway to see if they've still not made a decision (or perhaps actually made one, which would make a nice change) so I'll ask when I can expect things to be fully sorted out.


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## ymu (Jun 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> There is already a Special Payments Unit that deals with compensation/special payments especially if charges/difficulties are incurred as a result of DWP maladministration/mistakes/actions that contravene DWP regs.


 
How well does it work?

The Graun article recently on snitching had a woman who lost her home and university place because her exes new squeeze got jealous and told them he had moved back in. Months if no money, lost it all, finally won, no restitution.

There's no (human) reason not to make it automatic with significant penalty to deter fucking people for no good reason. I realise there are political reasons, but not ones that would prevent ys demanding something better.

 Good time to get this a media splash too.

Agree on the unnecessary slur on DWP workers, btw, Fuckwitted to discourage decent people from working there.

Soz Greebo. Fan of yours, but cheap shot is counter-productive.


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## Greebo (Jun 9, 2011)

Okay, slight rephrasing - IME just because somebody sounds nice and helpful (over the phone or in person) it doesn't mean they're nice and helpful.

There are probably decent well-meaning people doing every job under the sun.  I'm prepared to believe that some (maybe even "many", given the size of the organisation) of those decent well-meaning people work for the DWP.

However, given the bad experiences of people I know (not just me, not just in one year, and not just in one area), I struggle to get my head around the concept.  Apologies to those of you who are that decent person doing that job as well as you can.


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## Frankie Jack (Jun 9, 2011)

The frontline staff are not responsible for the policies being implemented. I've had nothing but courtesy from most of those I see at my local JC+ and those I've called. There's one at my JC+ who makes attempts at intimidation, but, she's a short arsed twat who's hardly on the desks now. Since I'm well known to those at the call centre they are ever so helpful and I have had many apologies for delays or error. I'm also learning all the ways through the beaurocracy.. Thanks to them.

I had to go back and sign on three weeks ago and the frontline staff were surprised to see me there. Jobsearches are cursory as there are no jobs advertised I could do and they know it. 

Blame the managers with targets..


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 9, 2011)

Frankie Jack said:


> Blame the managers with targets..



...target which are not, unfortunately, painted on their backs or the middle of their foreheads.


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## Frankie Jack (Jun 9, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> ...target which are not, unfortunately, painted on their backs or the middle of their foreheads.


 
True VP..It's us "scroungers" who wear the targets. I'm an M.S. and F.M. Scrounger. Two illnesses that employers are going to love having to put up with.. I couldn't write my signature on Monday... pffffffff..


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## Bakunin (Jun 9, 2011)

I'll also be filing an FOI request so I can look at al the relevent documentation and correspondence in case I have to go to a tribunal or the courts. Hopefully that won't be necessary.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 9, 2011)

I personally could give a fuck if they are well meaning  the old adage the road to hell is paved with good intentions springs to mind.

The bottom line is whoever speaks to people on the phone isn't going to be the ones making the clerical decisions, the reality is you and I will never ever get to speak to these people let alone have a face to face meeting with them.  Moreover, they will never see the lives of the people they make arbitrary and usually incorrect judgments on.  It's not that the believe everyone is on the take in fact they know full well that this is likely to be utterly unrepresentative of the majority of legitimate claims they'll be turning down but like every other aspect of govt which has been run on a 'profit motive' basis since the last tory govt in the 80's there will be targets they have to hit and so when it comes to it they are merely managing books not real people.  Their decisions aren't based on the humanity of the situation they are based on pure maths.  

the reality of this is that until we accept health education and welfare cannot be run on any profit motive and that the systems in place aren't fit for purpose nothing will get changed.

and if you work for the dwp, that doesn't make you a bad person but a little integrity in admitting that the system you work in has none would go a long way.


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## Frankie Jack (Jun 9, 2011)

Good luck Bakunin. Wish I had advice or info.


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## Fedayn (Jun 10, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> Dare I ask how long an appeal will take to be heard?


 
Too long, some appeals, especially those against failing the PCA test for Incapacity Benefit can take months. Part of the problem is the understaffing part is the lack of training and joke of an internal system they've created.
However things have got worse with the introduction of ESA and the 'Work Capability Assessments). There has been a high number of people 'failing' (ie being found fit for work) these tests and are appealing. The numbers who-imho rightly-are appealing has rockedted as have the numbners and % who win that appeal. As such there is a massive backlog of WCA appeals. Recently a former TU rep in my office was 'seconded' to the Appeals Service to help deal with this backlog-not a resouce issue mainly imho but a direct result of the ongoing failure of ESA-to help with their backlog. What they have introduced is a 'super reconsideration' (something that has no actual legislative basis, indeed arguably no actual basis in law) where instead of an appeal they give the claimant another reconsideration and invariably the claimant is dalt with before it goes to appeal. 
The Harrington Review, hailed as a great move, has only been brought in because ESA, especially the new WCA tests, is a disaster not waiting to happen but a disaster happening as we speak....


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## ericjarvis (Jun 10, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> Dare I ask how long an appeal will take to be heard?


 
A few weeks, then you can settle in to the six month wait for a tribunal.


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## Bakunin (Jun 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Too long, some appeals, especially those against failing the PCA test for Incapacity Benefit can take months. Part of the problem is the understaffing part is the lack of training and joke of an internal system they've created.
> However things have got worse with the introduction of ESA and the 'Work Capability Assessments). There has been a high number of people 'failing' (ie being found fit for work) these tests and are appealing. The numbers who-imho rightly-are appealing has rockedted as have the numbners and % who win that appeal. As such there is a massive backlog of WCA appeals. Recently a former TU rep in my office was 'seconded' to the Appeals Service to help deal with this backlog-not a resouce issue mainly imho but a direct result of the ongoing failure of ESA-to help with their backlog. What they have introduced is a 'super reconsideration' (something that has no actual legislative basis, indeed arguably no actual basis in law) where instead of an appeal they give the claimant another reconsideration and invariably the claimant is dalt with before it goes to appeal.
> The Harrington Review, hailed as a great move, has only been brought in because ESA, especially the new WCA tests, is a disaster not waiting to happen but a disaster happening as we speak....


 
I'm being ambitious and appealing against the original decision from last November via a late, written appeal to have the November decision reversed and my original benefits reinstated and backdated. I don't know if that's likely to make any difference to how long an appeal will take to be held, but as I'm currently on DLA instead of ESA I'm wondering if that would make a difference at all.


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## Fedayn (Jun 10, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I personally could give a fuck if they are well meaning  the old adage the road to hell is paved with good intentions springs to mind.
> 
> The bottom line is whoever speaks to people on the phone isn't going to be the ones making the clerical decisions



Depends on which decision you want making actually because some of the first contact people you speak to DO make those clerical changes that you refer to.



> the reality is you and I will never ever get to speak to these people



Factually incorrect, I work in Income Support, I speak to claimants, the exact claimats who phone the Contact Centres' every single day, to find out the best way of paying them if their payment is due that day, get extra info off them if we need it or to arrange for them to go into a JCP office to hand over info, get more info or get a counter giro whuch they are due. ...



> let alone have a face to face meeting with them.



The centralisation of benefit processing has been a massively retrograde step and stpops claimants having a proper relationship with the Adjudication Officer, which in turn means the AO doesn't get to know about the claimants in their box split and doesn't form a relationship that makes life and the claiming of benefits easier for the staff member and tha claimant.



> Moreover, they will never see the lives of the people they make arbitrary



Decisions aren't arbitrary, they are based on Social Security legislation and JCP/DWP regulations. That the legislation maybe bad, harmful and downright outrageous is entirely true, but it's not acted on in the 'arbitrary' manner you so wildly claim.



> and usually incorrect judgments on.



You are claiming the decisions are usually wrong, as such the majority of decisions DWP staff make are wrong. Have you evidence for this claim? Or are you referring to a specific decision as regards a specific benefit?! Which is it?



> It's not that the believe everyone is on the take in fact they know full well that this is likely to be utterly unrepresentative of the majority of legitimate claims they'll be turning down but like every other aspect of govt which has been run on a 'profit motive' basis since the last tory govt in the 80's there will be targets they have to hit and so when it comes to it they are merely managing books not real people.  Their decisions aren't based on the humanity of the situation they are based on pure maths.



Staff in JCP offices complained and whistleblew and attacked DWP targets to demand that individual Personal Advisers sanction JSA claimants for failing to live up to their side of tha bargain  it was a DWP staff member who blew the gaffe and PCS who provided the evidence to various news outlets.



> the reality of this is that until we accept health education and welfare cannot be run on any profit motive and that the systems in place aren't fit for purpose nothing will get changed.
> 
> and if you work for the dwp, that doesn't make you a bad person but a little integrity in admitting that the system you work in has none would go a long way.



Why do I need to admit anything, why does any DWP worker need to admit anything? We will be on strike soon, partly over attacks on out conditions, partly against the attacks on the public sector and ALWAYS with a mind to the fact that we know the people we deal with day and daily are some of the most vulnerable and poorest in our society, a better properly funded DWP makes for a better funded welfare system that is more humane to it's claimants and more focussed on lifting people out of poverty rather than harrassing them off benefits.


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## Fedayn (Jun 10, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> I'm being ambitious and appealing against the original decision from last November via a late, written appeal to have the November decision reversed and my original benefits reinstated and backdated. I don't know if that's likely to make any difference to how long an appeal will take to be held, but as I'm currently on DLA instead of ESA I'm wondering if that would make a difference at all.


 
What decision are you appealing? What benefit were you on back in November?


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## Bakunin (Jun 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> What decision are you appealing? What benefit were you on back in November?


 
I was on lower rate mobility and middle rate care until I submitted my renewal in November last year. They took only ten days to cut me down to lower rate care and mobility. I asked if I could appeal in March as I was too unwell to tackle the problem before then and was told I couldn't appeal but would have to ask for a review on grounds of a change of circumstances. It wasn't mentioned, at all, in March that I could make a late, written appeal which went in the post yesterday as I was waiting on a supportive letter from my psychiatrist which still hasn't arrived.


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## Fedayn (Jun 10, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> I was on lower rate mobility and middle rate care until I submitted my renewal in November last year. They took only ten days to cut me down to lower rate care and mobility. I asked if I could appeal in March as I was too unwell to tackle the problem before then and was told I couldn't appeal but would have to ask for a review on grounds of a change of circumstances. It wasn't mentioned, at all, in March that I could make a late, written appeal which went in the post yesterday as I was waiting on a supportive letter from my psychiatrist which still hasn't arrived.


 

Aaah right, that's DLA fella, I know very little about that BUT the appeal is usually quicker within DLA than it is over PCA/WCA appeals. If you were claiming Income Support I take it you then lost out on Severe Disability Premium aswell then?


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## Bakunin (Jun 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Aaah right, that's DLA fella, I know very little about that BUT the appeal is usually quicker within DLA than it is over PCA/WCA appeals. If you were claiming Income Support take it you then lost out on Severe Disability Premium aswell then?


 
Yes, I lost about 330 pounds a months of my benefits in November so I only get about 550 pounds a month now. It could be worse, I know, there are people a lot worse off than me, but I still have all the same outgoings that I had in November and about 330 pounds a month less cash to meet them with.


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## Fedayn (Jun 10, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> Yes, I lost about 330 pounds a months of my benefits in November so I only get about 550 pounds a month now. It could be worse, I know, there are people a lot worse off than me, but I still have all the same outgoings that I had in November and about 330 pounds a month less cash to meet them with.


 
If you win your appeal you get all that money backdated to the date of decision, easy to say but if you win you get it back....


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## Bakunin (Jun 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> If you win your appeal you get all that money backdated to the date of decision, easy to say but if you win you get it back....


 
That's what I'm hoping for. Then I could pay bills and loans and various debts that have built up since November and get on with my life again. Since November life's been pretty difficult as I'm constantly worrying about money/bills/debts that are building up and the ongoing strife with the DWP has been a serious blight on my life. My MP said to get in touch again if I haven't recieved a decision by 10/06/11 so I'm going to compose another email in case they haven't got a decision for me when I call them first thing tomorrow morning.


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## Fedayn (Jun 10, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> That's what I'm hoping for. Then I could pay bills and loans and various debts that have built up since November and get on with my life again. Since November life's been pretty difficult as I'm constantly worrying about money/bills/debts that are building up and the ongoing strife with the DWP has been a serious blight on my life. My MP said to get in touch again if I haven't recieved a decision by 10/06/11 so I'm going to compose another email in case they haven't got a decision for me when I call them first thing tomorrow morning.


 
Good luck, hope it goes well.


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## Bakunin (Jun 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Good luck, hope it goes well.


 
Thanks. I'm hoping it will be resolved by the end of next week as when I rang them on Wednesday they told me they're up to dealing with reviews from 14/03/11 and they received my request for a review on 21/03/11. If they haven't got a decision for me tomorrow morning I'll still email my MP again though just to push things along a little.


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## Fedayn (Jun 10, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> Thanks. I'm hoping it will be resolved by the end of next week as when I rang them on Wednesday they told me they're up to dealing with reviews from 14/03/11 and they received my request for a review on 21/03/11. If they haven't got a decision for me tomorrow morning I'll still email my MP again though just to push things along a little.


 
ALWAYS keep phoning.... weekly if needs be.


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## Bakunin (Jun 10, 2011)

Rang them again today. Still no decision so as my MP's caseworker said to ask her to chase it up if I hadn't had a decision by today, another little email has winged its way in her direction.

Sod's Law, of course, says that they'll decide to try and force me onto ESA, but I also have an appeal filed against the original decision from November 2010 so I'll live in hope of a positive outcome.

E2A: Another email has just gone off to John Domokos at the Guardian as he asked me to keep in otuch and provide further information.


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## Bakunin (Jun 11, 2011)

Now this is just downright odd.

Got a letter from their Belfast office this morning, dated yesterday, saying that my case is taking longer than usual because they've requested a report from my consultant. This is good because I know my consultant will be supportive (he's an excellent shrink) and at least it means that they seem to have started work on my case. It's also odd as, for the last 8 or 9 weeks now, whenever I've called them they've said that they weren't waiting for anything from any doctor or consultant.

Strange.


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## Greebo (Jun 11, 2011)

Right hand, left hand... you tend to find a lack of coordination in large organisations.  It might feel deliberately harmful, but it's probably more cock-up than conspiracy.  

Even so, keep on with the chasing up etc - it might well be that the decision to contact your consultant was only taken on the day that letter was printed (and not before).  Possibly by somebody who hasn't seen any of your claim before now and doesn't want to make a decision without getting all the available and relevant information first.


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## Bakunin (Jun 11, 2011)

Greebo said:


> Right hand, left hand... you tend to find a lack of coordination in large organisations.  It might feel deliberately harmful, but it's probably more cock-up than conspiracy.
> 
> Even so, keep on with the chasing up etc - it might well be that the decision to contact your consultant was only taken on the day that letter was printed (and not before).  Possibly by somebody who hasn't seen any of your claim before now and doesn't want to make a decision without getting all the available and relevant information first.



That's pretty much what I was thinking. If 'it's still with the decision maker' actually meant 'we haven't actually begun looking at it yet' then that would readily explain their only asking for a consultant's report now. And to be fair to the DWP, they won't have any control over how long it'll take for my consultant to get back to them with a report (although I know he'll do his best and it'll be a supportive one that strengthens my case considerable). Plus the letter did come from Belfast instead of the main office in Blackpool and, IIRC, decisions are reviewed by someone who has no prior connection with the case at hand.

I just thought it was a little odd, but I won't allow myself to become paranoid about it as that would be singularly non-productive. I'll keep chasing them up as, the sooner I get my decision, the sooner I can start trying to get my life back on track.


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## Bakunin (Jun 14, 2011)

Had an email from my MP's caseworker today saying that they've managed to prod the decision makers into putting my case on top of the pile (which would explain the letter on Saturday). Rang the DWP today to check on progress and apparently it will be handled quickly once the consultant's report arrives with the decision maker. I'm not geared up in full expectation of a positive outcome as pride usually comes before a fall, but at last I know that things are finally moving forward and if my request for a review of the decision doesn't go in my favour then I still have the appeal and a tribunal as a last resort.


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## Greebo (Jun 14, 2011)

Halle-bleedin-lujah.  Fingers crossed and thumbs held for a decision in your favour.


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## Bakunin (Jun 17, 2011)

This is odd.

Unless I'm mistaken it's a Friday today (and I don't think I am mistaken as I collected my money from the cashpoint just after midnight). I just tried to ring the DWP (helpline opens from 7:30AM) and their helpline is closed. Seeing as it isn't a bank holiday and I don't think they're on strike, why is the helpline closed this morning?

Anybody?


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## Greebo (Jun 17, 2011)

Okay, did a quick check on the DWP website (and it was before my 1st mug of tea of the day, so possibly wrong).  No mention of any helplines being closed as far as I can see.  It could be staff illness, could be somebody having forgotten to switch off the automatic message (left on over night), or something else.  Try ringing again and see if it's still closed?


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## Bakunin (Jun 17, 2011)

Greebo said:


> Okay, did a quick check on the DWP website (and it was before my 1st mug of tea of the day, so possibly wrong).  No mention of any helplines being closed as far as I can see.  It could be staff illness, could be somebody having forgotten to switch off the automatic message (left on over night), or something else.  Try ringing again and see if it's still closed?


 
I just got off the phone to them and it's not good news. My consultant sent a report that was 'incomplete, apparently they sometimes do that when they're too busy to complete one fully' according to the lady who answered my inquiry so they've asked for a report from my GP instead. This would be the GP that I haven't seen since April last year and who consequently knows next to nothing about my current situation beyond what's in his notes.

On the plus side, my GP's notes will contain full details of my various ailments (which are: asthma, type 2 diabetes, bipolar, Asperger's and high blood cholesterol) which my psych consultant wouldn't necessarily know about which might add some weight to my case for general disability, and the fact that my shrink's report is 'incomplete' doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't send them any information at all, just that I don't know exactly what he sent them, if anything.

So, it's still a waiting game and I'm not necessarily looking towards a positive outcome without that supporting evidence. I still have an appeal in the works and there's always a tribunal if the appeal fails. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to start preparing for an appeal hearing now and have some solid evidence and documentation ready in case of need.

E2A: Just got off the phone to my consultant's secretary and she told me that they don't fill out DWP reports and all requests go direct to my GP. What effect that will have on my request for a review and my pending appeal I don't know, but I'm guessing that it isn't necessarily at all helpful to my case. This doesn't seem like good news to me.


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## Greebo (Jun 17, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> I just got off the phone to them and it's not good news.
> <snip>
> So, it's still a waiting game and I'm not necessarily looking towards a positive outcome without that supporting evidence. I still have an appeal in the works and there's always a tribunal if the appeal fails. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to start preparing for an appeal hearing now and have some solid evidence and documentation ready in case of need.


  Rolls up sleeves...

Yes, start preparing for an appeal now (with all that it involves).  At least then, if it has to go that far, it won't be quite as stressful or difficult for you.  Meanwhile, keep going, okay?  Every year, claimants give up and walk away from money which they're not only entitled to but also need - FFS don't be one of them.

There are ways of getting relevantly detailed supporting letters out of consultants and GPs, but unfortunately it depends on what sort of doctor/patient relationship you have.  I'll send VP to this thread later (it'll be after midday) to explain about that.


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## Bakunin (Jun 17, 2011)

Greebo said:


> Rolls up sleeves...
> 
> Yes, start preparing for an appeal now (with all that it involves).  At least then, if it has to go that far, it won't be quite as stressful or difficult for you.  Meanwhile, keep going, okay?  Every year, claimants give up and walk away from money which they're not only entitled to but also need - FFS don't be one of them.
> 
> There are ways of getting relevantly detailed supporting letters out of consultants and GPs, but unfortunately it depends on what sort of doctor/patient relationship you have.  I'll send VP to this thread later (it'll be after midday) to explain about that.


 
Thanks for the help and advice. I've made an appointment with one of my local GP's for Tuesday afternoon to assess my general health (which should be fun if I'm as rough as I feel and look at the moment) so that's still ongoing. If I'm as rough as I currently feel then that should be extra weight for an appeal tribunal. I'm not at death's door or anything, no worries on that score, but I'm certainly not top dollar by any means.


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## Greebo (Jun 17, 2011)

No need


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 17, 2011)

Some issues with the DWP getting a report/letter from your consultant.

1) a decent report/letter will take yer man an hour +. The DWP offer NO payment to your consultant for doing this, therefore their PA/secretary will often do a cursory report which the consultant will sign off, but which won't tell the DWP what they need to know.

2) If your consultant hasn't seen you for a while, they may feel uncomfortable writing a report on you (I don't believe this applies to you, though).

3) Short/cursory/incomplete reports are often issued if there are time constraints.


My main weapon when reports/letters are required is to find out exactly what info is needed, and then go to the source myself. I've even scraped together the money to *pay* for a report before, because otherwise my consultant's secretary wouldn't have prioritised it, and I'd have been left waiting a month or two for it, rather than a couple of working days. So, if you can see your consultant and say "I really need a letter that explains _X, Y_ and _Z_", that may facilitate things, rather than him having to go by the (rather laborious) form the DWP will send him.


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## Bakunin (Jun 17, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Some issues with the DWP getting a report/letter from your consultant.
> 
> 1) a decent report/letter will take yer man an hour +. The DWP offer NO payment to your consultant for doing this, therefore their PA/secretary will often do a cursory report which the consultant will sign off, but which won't tell the DWP what they need to know.
> 
> ...


 
1. It looks as though they didn't even do a report at all, or if they did it was a very cursory one. All my shrink's secretary said was that they don't do DWP reports as a matter of course so I'm thinking they didn't even complete one.

2. My consultant saw me three months ago and my GP saw me last April, and it's my GP who'll be doing the report assuming they actually do it as, according to the surgery website, they don't do DWP reports as part of their NHS work and there's usually a fee to pay. And they don't always do DLA reports either. That and my current GP only works at my surgery on Thursdays now and is booked up weeks in advance. I have got a doctor's appointment with another of the practice GP's on Tuesday afternoon at which I'll be requesting a full health assessment with all the whistles and bells and tests and whatnot and will be finding out what I need to do (and have to pay) to get a DLA report from them after my assessment has been completed.

3. See answer 1 above.

I'm currently researching how to best prepare for an appeal (I've already filed a late, written appeal), what I need to do and how best to go about it from as many different websites as I can find. I've already made a list of potential sources of supporting evidence and where/who to try and get it from and I'm working on the assumption that I'll need to take it to an appeal as I doubt now that I'm going to get a positive outcome from my request for a reconsideration. So, it looks as though it'll be even longer before I can expect to be able to pay off debts and get things back on track again.


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## Bakunin (Sep 28, 2011)

Gits.

I finally got a decision (05/09/11) and it was what I expected, no change in my decision or benefit rates so now I'm going for an appeal. The DWP sent me their appeal submission dated 14/09/11 and when I called the Tribunals Service about my appeal date they told me that they didn't have my appeal on file as the DWP hadn't sent them anything. That and the DWP decision maker made the new decision based on the fact that I can walk 250 metres normally (I can't) instead of the 25 metres that I can manage without using my inhaler for a couple of puffs. The medical examiner's report is, unusually for an ATOS medical, very supportive as was the examining doctor and also mentions my extreme blood cholesterol level while the DWP decision maker doesn't even list my dangerously high blood cholesterol on the initial form they sent to the examining doctor.

So, to sum up,

1. I got the review I expected instead of what I wanted.

2. The DWP's submission to the Tribunal Service has mysteriously been lost in the post which I would have known nothing about and thus my appeal time could have lapsed without my even knowing it.

3. The DWP decision maker made the review decision based on a partially completed and inaccurate set of facts and doesn't seem to have realised the fact. Whether or not this is a good thing for me at the appeal I don't know, but it certainly seems like a couple of useful shots to fire.


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## equationgirl (Oct 2, 2011)

I wish you all the best in your fight, bakunin, and I admire your tenacity in the face of all this. Keep up the fight, and good luck.


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## Bakunin (Oct 15, 2011)

I've been checking some of my paperwork since I arrived at my new home and it's been a month now since my new MP (Geoffrey Cox) recieved my letter detailing my problems with the DWP and promised in his reply to have a little chat with the DWP's Chief Exec. In his reply he promised to have me sent out a copy of the DWP Chief Exec's response and as it's been four weeks and nothing from either the MP or the DWP I think I should ring the MP's office (I'll have to wait until Monday to ring the DWP's DLA department as that office-full of timeserving clockwatchers only bother to open up between Monday and Friday).

A number of possible reasons spring to mind;

1. That I was sent something that was lost in the post. Possible, but IMHO unlikely as the MP's office have my new address and correct postcode.

2. That the DWP are stonewalling and/or lying to my MP in the hope that said MP will find something else to do, so will go away and leave them alone. Quite possible, seeing as stonewalling and outright lying are things at which the DWP are very, very good and have no scruples about doing as long as they think they can get away with doing.

3. That the DWP people are so far behind with their mail, owing to their habitual incompetence and/or laziness, that even an enquiry from an elected public official isn't given a proper level of priority. Possible, but unlikely, seeing as my new MP stated that he would be enquiring about my case to the Chief Exec personally.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2011)

You omit the possibility that your mp simply lied to you


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## Greebo (Oct 15, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> <snip>my new MP (Geoffrey Cox) recieved my letter detailing my problems with the DWP and promised in his reply to have a little chat with the DWP's Chief Exec. In his reply he promised to have me sent out a copy of the DWP Chief Exec's response and as it's been four weeks and nothing from either the MP or the DWP I think I should ring the MP's office<snip>


Agreed, although in a perfect world there'd be no need to do this.


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## Bakunin (Oct 15, 2011)

Greebo said:


> Agreed, although in a perfect world there'd be no need to do this.



There'd be no need for me to pursue the course of action outlined in the link below, but as a result of today's response to my MP hitting my doormat I've finally lost patience with the DWP and its drones so one of them is about to recieve a letter threatening to sue them as a private individual for false representation when dealing with my original claim form back in November 2010. The DWP might be able to close ranks if it's under legal fire as a whole department, but I doubt the original decision maker will be quite so intractable now that I've cut them from the herd and singled them out for particular attention:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/suing_the_dwp

The letter is due to be posted tomorrow and I'll be doing the rounds of Legal Aid firms that specialise in welfare rights cases and civil litigation. Watch this space.


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## Quartz (Oct 20, 2011)

Very best of luck to you.


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## Greebo (Oct 20, 2011)

Quartz said:


> Very best of luck to you.


^^^This.


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## equationgirl (Oct 27, 2011)

How's it going, Bakunin? Any progress? Hope you're doing ok.


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## weltweit (Oct 27, 2011)

Hey Bakunin, sorry to hear you are having hassles.


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## Bakunin (Oct 27, 2011)

They totally ignored my threat to sue and then forwarded the email to the appeals tribunal.


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## equationgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> They totally ignored my threat to sue and then forwarded the email to the appeals tribunal.




Can you start the legal process to sue or do you have to wait until the appeal is over?

Sorry to hear they're being such knobends about the whole thing. Best of luck.


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## narrowboat boy (Nov 11, 2011)

Only comfort I can offer you is I've been there, done that in the past. To cut a very long story short, you have zero chance of getting anywhere now with your claims from the DWP. Your only hope is the actual tribunal. I went to that, the tribunal people were great, they completely belittled the DWP representative there for her incompetance in my case which was so obviously genuine. ( Mind you the fact I actually had an epileptic fit bought on by all the stress at the actual tribunal may of helped I admit, but epilepsy wasnt my only medical problem.) but they all agreed that my case was so obviously genuine, and should never have gone this far, and I should never have even been put through all this stress. I was awarded all my money back, and it all backdated over the  year it took from my first appeal, until I got to the tribunal. That was about 4 years ago now, I was also awarded for an indefinate period to stop this from happening to me again.
So dont give up hope! fight until the end, they hope you wont, thats why they put you through this, But the appeals people are independent. Just make sure you take along with you as much evidence as you can. Also do like I did, go see a solicitor. They are not allowed to reprisent you at the hearing, but they can write suportive letters for you which all helps.

Very good luck to you!

My only worry now is what happens in a year of two's time when this 'PIP' thing starts? Is everyone going to be re-assed  again? or are the people who have got it for an indefinate period at least going to be exempt?? I really dont want to go through all this hassle again In a year or so's time. The worry of it is already starting to affect my health. I'm hoping we'll have a general strike or something by then and the gov will have to do a 'U' turn on it or something.


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## equationgirl (Nov 11, 2011)

I'm glad the appeal worked for you, narrowboat boy 

Bakunin, any progress on the legal aid stuff?


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