# Dungeon Crawl : Stone Soup



## tommers (Nov 4, 2015)

Now that three of us are playing this maybe we should have a thread so we don't clog up the other one with all the "oh shit, I've died again" nonsense?

Cheibriados is essentially cheating, let's start off with that.

I'm running a Spriggan Enchanter at the moment, not sure how viable that is but it's fun to be a little goblin thing running about really quickly and putting people to sleep.  Level 9 or something at the moment.

yield FridgeMagnet


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## Pickman's model (Nov 4, 2015)

yield fridgemagnet you varlet


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## tommers (Nov 4, 2015)

Wiki


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## chilango (Nov 4, 2015)

I play this! (Occasionally)


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## yield (Nov 4, 2015)

On my best run so far with a polearms Minotaur Fighter. The reach really helps. I'm level 11 on Dungeon 10 and about to try the Lair.

Early game success seems to depend on luck and good item finds.

I've had some embarassing deaths so far. Being mobbed by yaks etc.


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## tommers (Nov 5, 2015)

yield said:


> On my best run so far with a polearms Minotaur Fighter. The reach really helps. I'm level 11 on Dungeon 10 and about to try the Lair.
> 
> Early game success seems to depend on luck and good item finds.
> 
> I've had some embarassing deaths so far. Being mobbed by yaks etc.



Nothing embarrassing about being killed by yaks.  They're bastards.  As long as you don't get surrounded you're usually alright. 

My best run was also with a minotaur fighter.  The thumpy classes do seem to do a bit better,  I tried a deep elf wizard about ten times and never got past level 5.  If you take Cheibriados as your God then you can just walk through most things. 

This Spriggan I've got going on now is doing well though. Very sneaky and if anybody wakes up he can put them back to sleep and then stab them.  The main problem I can see is that some of the monsters are very resistant to charm, sleep, confuse etc. You can always charm other creatures though or blind / poison them. I predict his downfall will be somebody with good offensive spells as he has fuck all health. 

Has anybody been in the swamp?  I've got that, slime pit or spiders.   Got corrosion protection but no poison.


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## yield (Nov 5, 2015)

tommers said:


> Nothing embarrassing about being killed by yaks.  They're bastards.  As long as you don't get surrounded you're usually alright.
> 
> My best run was also with a minotaur fighter.  The thumpy classes do seem to do a bit better,  I tried a deep elf wizard about ten times and never got past level 5.  If you take Cheibriados as your God then you can just walk through most things.
> 
> ...


Is Cheibriados that good? Just from the stat bonuses?

Think I'll stick with fighters at the moment. Doubt I can make fragile magic users or sneaks last.

The Minotaur got murdered by Sonja the kobold assassin. 

Tried a Deep Dwarf fighter. Learnt evocations, to go with his recharge ability, for wands I found.

I was doing really well. Ate some mutagenic meat which made him frail.

Fell three floors through a hole in the Dungeon. Then got mobbed by white ugly things.

Still got to work out when to run.


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## tommers (Nov 5, 2015)

yield said:


> Is Cheibriados that good? Just from the stat bonuses?



My minotaur had 43 Strength   So yeah.  And Slouch is effectively a smart bomb.  I only died cos I met a lich who could cast crystal spear repeatedly at me.  Before I met him I had to retreat maybe once or twice but generally just ploughed through anything.  Axes are good as well cos they hit anything that is adjacent to you.  Makes mobs much more manageable.  Just stick on some heavy armour, get as big a shield as you can and off you go.

The only downside is that you can't run away from anything.  If you're in the open and you need to get out then you'll need a teleport or invisibility or whatever.  But to be honest that wasn't that big a deal.


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## yield (Nov 8, 2015)

tommers said:


> My minotaur had 43 Strength   So yeah.  And Slouch is effectively a smart bomb.  I only died cos I met a lich who could cast crystal spear repeatedly at me.  Before I met him I had to retreat maybe once or twice but generally just ploughed through anything.  Axes are good as well cos they hit anything that is adjacent to you.  Makes mobs much more manageable.  Just stick on some heavy armour, get as big a shield as you can and off you go.
> 
> The only downside is that you can't run away from anything.  If you're in the open and you need to get out then you'll need a teleport or invisibility or whatever.  But to be honest that wasn't that big a deal.


I'll try Cheibriados next then!

Having a better run with a Deep Dwarf fighter following Okawaru.

Been gifted a +5 runed dire flail of crushing. Chews through Gorgons.

Some of the stuff on the wiki is really confusing regarding evasion, armour and dodge.

Can't work out if I'm better off with (enchanted) scale mail for evasion as I can't use a shield?


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## chilango (Nov 8, 2015)

Level 7 is the highest I've got. Deep Dwarf berserker. Still alive.

But keep playing frail assassins and marksmen who get mobbed by "robin" around level 3


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## tommers (Nov 8, 2015)

My spriggan just died.    Met a magic resistant guardian snake who could cast some spells and that was that. He got to level 15 though. 

I have never met a gorgon,  where are they? 

I think armour is better than evasion but I don't really have anything to back up that assertion.  Just I know that characters with high evasion do get hit and then you're in trouble.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 8, 2015)

The rules around armour and evasion are absurdly complicated and it makes it very hard to min/max. I've had very durable EV based characters and it's a workable strategy but you have to be much more cautious and retreat much earlier—one solid hit and you should leg it, because another one might knock you out completely.

Another issue is that Crawl's damage system can be extremely variable and the only way of making it more predictable is armour. Look up GDR in the wiki—better armour has a higher guaranteed % reduction, regardless of actual AC, which can be more useful because it means you can plan properly. EV characters don't have this.

It's one of the things that makes troll monks good long term btw. At first you can't use armour much at all because none of it fits, so you have to train up Dodging, but once you get hold of some dragon armour, which fits everyone, it has great GDR and you have the strength to overcome penalties.


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## chilango (Nov 8, 2015)

My dwarf bezerker killed Robin


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 8, 2015)

Nagas are the best race for Chei because you get huge piety bonuses as everything else is faster than you. If you can get to the Lair you can have 25+ for all your stats. The trouble with nagas is that they are weak in the early game because they can't escape.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 8, 2015)

I've stopped playing Crawl except in two strictly defined circumstances, now, btw.

1. It's 3 in the morning and I have inexplicably woken up and can't get back to sleep;
2. I'm at work.

So, tbh, not a lot of difference then. (One advantage of being a developer is that you regularly have lots of terminals open so another one that's ssh-ing into crawl.akrasiac.org really doesn't draw any attention.)


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## tommers (Nov 9, 2015)

Yeah, I play strictly on the way to and from work.  But that is over 3 hrs a day so you know.

Gargoyle Earth Elementalist.  Immune to poison and petrification, resistant to negative and draining, high armour class and nobody has resistance to physical earth damage outside of armour.  What could possibly go wrong?


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## yield (Nov 10, 2015)

tommers said:


> My spriggan just died.    Met a magic resistant guardian snake who could cast some spells and that was that. He got to level 15 though.


The deep dwarf is level 13 now. The fights are getting tougher


tommers said:


> I have never met a gorgon,  where are they?


I'm pretty deep in the Lair. Cleared the Ice cave & the Volcano.

You can't use swords against Gorgons as they grow extra heads.

Been swarmed a few times too only saved potions of lignification.


tommers said:


> I think armour is better than evasion but I don't really have anything to back up that assertion.  Just I know that characters with high evasion do get hit and then you're in trouble.


Thanks FM I didn't know about Guaranteed damage reduction. Looks like I'm better off with plate armour.


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## chilango (Nov 10, 2015)

My dwarf got taken out around level 9 by something innocuous that he shoulda just ran away from. 

I'm enjoying playing Spriggan enchanters at the moment. Sneak up to something, put em to sleep and then stab em. Very satisfying. But running away is key. I haven't managed to get one beyond level 5 yet.

Trying to only play in short bursts as a "task divider" at work (clearing my mind of the detritus of one task before tackling another that requires a fresh view)


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## tommers (Nov 10, 2015)

chilango said:


> My dwarf got taken out around level 9 by something innocuous that he shoulda just ran away from.
> 
> I'm enjoying playing Spriggan enchanters at the moment. Sneak up to something, put em to sleep and then stab em. Very satisfying. But running away is key. I haven't managed to get one beyond level 5 yet.
> 
> Trying to only play in short bursts as a "task divider" at work (clearing my mind of the detritus of one task before tackling another that requires a fresh view)


I think the key to them is to get some kind of damage spell working cos you get to a point where everything has magic resistance. 

Although if you only have a 20% chance that still means you should only have to last 5 rounds before you put them to sleep and kill them.  Train stealth and short blades, as well as your magic. 

And remember you run quick!


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## tommers (Nov 10, 2015)

yield said:


> You can't use swords against Gorgons as they grow extra heads.



Do you mean hydra?


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 10, 2015)

I've taken a few spriggans to mid-level—I find you have to start thinking about getting a decent bow quite soon. Spriggans have poor aptitude for Conjurations and have trouble with food (and hence spell hunger) so you can't rely on the high-level attack spells. They have good Bows aptitude, though, even if they can't use longbows, and with high skill you can do surprising amounts of damage—plus they are fast enough to constantly keep a distance.


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## tommers (Nov 10, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've taken a few spriggans to mid-level—I find you have to start thinking about getting a decent bow quite soon. Spriggans have poor aptitude for Conjurations and have trouble with food (and hence spell hunger) so you can't rely on the high-level attack spells. They have good Bows aptitude, though, even if they can't use longbows, and with high skill you can do surprising amounts of damage—plus they are fast enough to constantly keep a distance.


Hmm,  I never thought of a bow. 

I thought they had a slow metabolism?  They can't eat meat (even with gourmand) but I thought they took ages to get hungry.


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## tommers (Nov 10, 2015)

While we're here, who knows how the magic system works?  i.e. how does it work out the percentage fail chance?  Is it that you need a certain level in one of the types?  Or is it easier to cast something which only uses one type as opposed to say mephitic cloud, which is conjuration / poison / air (I think)?


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 10, 2015)

tommers said:


> Hmm,  I never thought of a bow.
> 
> I thought they had a slow metabolism?  They can't eat meat (even with gourmand) but I thought they took ages to get hungry.


They do, but spell hunger ignores that, and high level spells cause lots of it.


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## yield (Nov 11, 2015)

tommers said:


> Do you mean hydra?


I'm going lala obviously. Sure I fought a gorgon was glad I had a flail but it's the hydras with the extra heads.

Not met a hydra yet then.

Anyone what effect armour encumbrance has on missile weapons?

Cleared the Lair. Levelling much slower now and running low on MP to recharge the wand of healing.


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## tommers (Nov 11, 2015)

Yeah,  I didn't get a single scroll of recharging when I had a deep dwarf. What are the chances etc? 

Not sure about armour on missile weapons,  probably same effect as on melee. Slows down attacks doesn't it?


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## yield (Nov 11, 2015)

tommers said:


> Yeah,  I didn't get a single scroll of recharging when I had a deep dwarf. What are the chances etc?


I think I've only  found one so far!


tommers said:


> Not sure about armour on missile weapons,  probably same effect as on melee. Slows down attacks doesn't it?


Can't work out what to do next. Haven't got MP to spare recharging wands and need to soften up tough enemies or missile ones.

Was thinking of using a bow?

Going to try the Orc Mines. Permadeath makes me dread continuing as it's the best I've done.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 11, 2015)

I don't think armour has much if any effect on missile weapons—I've never seen a "you missed because of your armour" message when shooting, but I have loads of times in melee. There's an easy way to tell if it slows actions down: check how much the time counter goes up when shooting with armour on, then take it off, shoot, and check the time.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 11, 2015)

*Things not to do*: use a weapon of chaos past a certain point. It's great when you pick up Crazy Yuif's quarterstaff of chaos in the early game—most of the effects are beneficial to you and it can do absurd amounts of damage. The occasional healing of an enemy or hasting them or turning them invisible is manageable as you can just bash them to death anyway.

However, go into the Lair and polymorph a yak... no, try to avoid that. Yaks have high HD and so will tend to turn into even more dangerous monsters. Say, for example, a salamander. When you don't even have rF+. That's not great.

This just emphasises that once you get past the early game, what you need is _predictability_ over power. It becomes way more important to be able to make tactical decisions and to do that you need to know your resources. See also wands of random effects, which are actually quite good early on but useless later on.


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## tommers (Nov 12, 2015)

Trog has a regeneration ability that you can use as a deep dwarf.


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## tommers (Nov 12, 2015)

And if you train spell skills you'll get more MP. 

I just found a random amulet artefact called "shit".


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## tommers (Nov 15, 2015)

Got a rune again.  Same one as last time -  spiders. Going to try swamp and slime next.  

I have entrances to hell and pandemonium as well but going to steer well clear I think.


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## tommers (Nov 16, 2015)

ADOM is up on Steam by the way.  For a tenner, but it does seem to have had a bit of a makeover.


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## tommers (Nov 20, 2015)

Got to level 2 of the Realm of Zot.

Found "a strange structure made of doors".  Opened some of the doors.  Found 4 Orbs of Fire and assorted other things.  Tried to fight them to see what would happen.  Ended up using 3 Blink scrolls and potion of haste to make it back to the stairs, with 17hp out of 258.

Nothing worked and I'm mutated to shit.


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## chilango (Nov 20, 2015)

Not getting past about Dungeon 4 

Get far too gung Ho.


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## tommers (Nov 20, 2015)

chilango said:


> Not getting past about Dungeon 4
> 
> Get far too gung Ho.


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## tommers (Nov 21, 2015)

Boom.


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## chilango (Dec 9, 2015)

still playing this. get murdered by my own ghosts


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 9, 2015)

Fuck electric eels.

That is all.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 30, 2015)

tommers said:


> View attachment 79888
> 
> Boom.


thread killer  Doesn't count if you're not online, anyway!

I still keep dying all the time. I got quite far with a Troll Wanderer recently; you can get reasonable Int and a spell or two if you're lucky, which makes trolls drastically better, particularly if you get some Necromancy and can use skeletons as meat (bone) shields.


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## tommers (Dec 30, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> thread killer  Doesn't count if you're not online, anyway!
> 
> I still keep dying all the time. I got quite far with a Troll Wanderer recently; you can get reasonable Int and a spell or two if you're lucky, which makes trolls drastically better, particularly if you get some Necromancy and can use skeletons as meat (bone) shields.



I'm still playing!  Actually managed to get a Deep Elf past level 6, got to 11 or 12 and thought I'd do alright and then got killed by something stupid.

I didn't realise there were conditions.


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## tommers (Dec 31, 2015)

There's been an update 

There's a new god.  Something to do with devices, I worshipped him not realising that he blocks magic regeneration.

I tried to revoke my religion once I realised.  He has continued to block my magic regeneration. 

I'm screwed.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 1, 2016)

That sounds like a change to trunk—don't think there's been a new version of 0.17.

Currently running a demonspawn berserker who managed to find a +13 artefact crystal plate armour, also giving Str +4. My AC is currently 51  This partially makes up for all my mutations being rubbish and Trog consistently gifting me bullshit (thanks, more arrows, didn't have any of those, oh and a sling! how kind).

Just got through the Snake Pit. I had to use Brothers In Arms quite a lot but it wasn't that bad, apart from naga ritualists. They're okay if you have good MR, but if you don't, they can knock out your poison resistance and actually make you poison vulnerable, as well as increasing your poison level, and then the rest of the nagas in the area just poison you to death. Good ranged skills help a lot here, particularly arrows of freezing to deal with salamanders (who aren't all that nasty tbh).


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 2, 2016)

fuck the Abyss 

Wretched stars can basically give you three mutations a turn, and even if they're temporary, you can be completely stopped from escaping by the fact that you can't read any scrolls or heal yourself. Combine that with a load of starcursed masses splitting and doing unresistable damage every turn and sometimes paralysing you... bah.


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## tommers (Jan 2, 2016)

Ouch.


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 27, 2016)

I'd just like to say that whilst I have still not managed to get anywhere at all, I did at least get killed by something I've never been killed by before the other day, which was the Moon Troll.

Lehudib's Moon Base - CrawlWiki

Hill Orc of Beogh but unfortunately you can't take your orc followers into wizards' labs, and I had got a bit overconfident, realising only too late that I wasn't quite so hard without a dozen or so orc knights with branded weapons and arbalests.


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## tommers (Apr 28, 2016)

I've got two runes atm but not played for a while.  Gargoyle fighter I think.  Dithmenos.


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## Buddy Bradley (Apr 28, 2016)

Seeing this was a thread bump I started reading from page 2. I think this might be the least understandable thread I've ever seen on urban, and that's saying something.


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## Bonfirelight (Apr 28, 2016)

the fuck you nerds on about?


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## chilango (Feb 26, 2018)

Still play this from time to time. But have now got "Shattered Pixel Dungeon" on my phone which is a similar sorta thing and lots of fun.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 10, 2018)

Not done spectacularly well so far but I did start to get a feel for things in the run where grinder killed me after I'd used a wand of polymorph to turn him into a smoke demon. I've met and killed another unique as well, natasha iirc. Oh she's on the list having slain me. That polar bear kill was trogs vengeance, I found a room of temples and switched gods. Turns out trog is not mocked.


I'll try something other than berserker runs eventually


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## tommers (Aug 11, 2018)

Still playing this. Been clearing the dungeon pretty consistently but not getting anywhere with the lair or any of the branches. Been using a spriggan assassin - nice and quick so you can run away if you get into a spot but doesn't really pack enough punch once poison stops working.


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## tommers (Aug 13, 2018)

tommers said:


> I've got two runes atm but not played for a while.  Gargoyle fighter I think.  Dithmenos.



Logged into the trunk server and this character was still there.  I'd forgotten all about him.

And....


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## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2018)

I'm still struggling to break the 9 barrier. I keep doing stupid rushed shit in the heat of the moment. Loaded for bear, wands of this, runed weapon, teleport and blink scrolls, three emergency lignification potions to tree my way out of a brawl....and then I toe to toe with a vampire, or a ghost of myself or whatever and just hammer the attack button rather than thinking about my gear and how to use it. Still, progress of a sort.


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## Mordi (Aug 15, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm still struggling to break the 9 barrier. I keep doing stupid rushed shit in the heat of the moment. Loaded for bear, wands of this, runed weapon, teleport and blink scrolls, three emergency lignification potions to tree my way out of a brawl....and then I toe to toe with a vampire, or a ghost of myself or whatever and just hammer the attack button rather than thinking about my gear and how to use it. Still, progress of a sort.



Sounds like you're well ahead of me, I have to stick with characters that walk into things to kill them and when I get into trouble read all my unidentified scrolls and hope.

The best I've managed has been playing a Hill Orc Priest and picking up some massive Orcs from the Orcish Mines to kill things for me.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 15, 2018)

Mordi said:


> Sounds like you're well ahead of me, I have to stick with characters that walk into things to kill them and when I get into trouble read all my unidentified scrolls and hope.
> 
> The best I've managed has been playing a Hill Orc Priest and picking up some massive Orcs from the Orcish Mines to kill things for me.


I always quaff and read everything the moment I've picked it up unless I have surplus identify scrolls. Found an armour shop last run through, couldn't afford anything lol.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 15, 2018)

Mordi said:


> Hill Orc Priest


Download a newer version - priests have been gone since like years ago  or play online like Real Gamerz

In general the fighter types are the easiest to get ahead with, particularly berserkers. But you never get anywhere without knowing how to run. That's the really important thing about Crawl and roguelikes generally - you can't tough this shit out, you need to know when to back off and be able to do so. Teleport scrolls, haste potions, hanging around the up stairs, whatever it takes.


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## Mordi (Aug 16, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Download a newer version - priests have been gone since like years ago  or play online like Real Gamerz



You're right I meant Monk. If you're an Orc the first time you meet an Orc Priest you're given the option of converting to Beogh. If you've picked an unaligned Monk then you start with a chunk of faith which means most Orcs are friendly and will join you. It's great. 

That might be a few versions old to be fair


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## tommers (Aug 16, 2018)

Mordi said:


> You're right I meant Monk. If you're an Orc the first time you meet an Orc Priest you're given the option of converting to Beogh. If you've picked an unaligned Monk then you start with a chunk of faith which means most Orcs are friendly and will join you. It's great.
> 
> That might be a few versions old to be fair



Nah, still works now.  My one was going great until he got sent to the Abyss.   On his own.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 19, 2018)

I had a level 10 minotaur fighter with all the gear, even found some crystal plate armour. Got to the second map of the Lair and died _with teleport scrolls in my pocket and health potions unquaffed _. I was Wu Jain as well which gives you an amazing wall bounce, like a mini blink move. I also liked this minotaur fighter loaded down with armour and shield busting the House of Flying Daggers moves. I need to work on the 'know when to run' thing lol


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## tommers (Sep 25, 2018)

Troll Monk. Wearing the skin of another troll for the LOLs.

Getting towards the natural ceiling for trolls (can't wear decent armour, shit skills, no magic). Regen is good but isn't going to help immediately and you have no escape plans except for Scrolls of teleport and haste potions. 

I did get three artifact weapons on one level. So that's helped a bit.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2018)

"Playing Crawl is a little bit like gambling; all moves are calculated commitments to chance. Good gamblers don't practice by replaying their cards, they play lots and over time learn patterns and count chance/statistics."

-Sun Tzu on reddit


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## tommers (Sep 28, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> "Playing Crawl is a little bit like gambling; all moves are calculated commitments to chance. Good gamblers don't practice by replaying their cards, they play lots and over time learn patterns and count chance/statistics."
> 
> -Sun Tzu on reddit


He gets everywhere.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 6, 2018)

I thought worker ants on D:2 ffs was taking the piss, but D:3 gave me a +9 axe of Hepliaklqana  (see invis, resist something, antimagic) and a +3 amultet of reflection. This could be the one!

I'll die soon


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought worker ants on D:2 ffs was taking the piss, but D:3 gave me a +9 axe of Hepliaklqana  (see invis, resist something, antimagic) and a +3 amultet of reflection. This could be the one!
> 
> I'll die soon


It gives you this stuff so you get cocky and die.


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## mojo pixy (Oct 6, 2018)

If you win, the sprite inside the game escapes and summons a demon, which devours your soul.


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## tommers (Oct 20, 2018)

Currently watching somebody else playing Crawl.

Saturday night kids.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2018)

I just cleared level 15 of the main dungeon. Without dying. I did not intend to stay up till 4. This s the furthest I have ever got without dying. Gargoyle berserker. When you level up to 14 you grow wings and can fly constant.


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## tommers (Oct 20, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I just cleared level 15 of the main dungeon. Without dying. I did not intend to stay up till 4. This s the furthest I have ever got without dying. Gargoyle berserker. When you level up to 14 you grow wings and can fly constant.



Gargoyles are a good race, lots of AC, immunity to poison which is really helpful in Snake Pit and the Spider one.

Be careful of Slime Pit, it is a fucker, but good chance from here #nopressure

I've got a Spriggan Enchanter to the same level. Just cleared out Orc Mines and most of Lair (it got a bit much after about level 5 so I'm going to come back later). I think this is the furthest I've ever got a spellcaster.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2018)

tommers said:


> Gargoyles are a good race, lots of AC, immunity to poison which is really helpful in Snake Pit and the Spider one.
> 
> Be careful of Slime Pit, it is a fucker, but good chance from here #nopressure
> 
> I've got a Spriggan Enchanter to the same level. Just cleared out Orc Mines and most of Lair (it got a bit much after about level 5 so I'm going to come back later). I think this is the furthest I've ever got a spellcaster.


I will tackle lair first. if I can find it ddn't see an entrance on the way down, just one to the vaults and one to the orcish mines. Epic game last night tho, I got a +10 dagger of piercing with resist heat and a +10 dexterity boost. Have not looked back, the dagger is Fragile, it says it will break if unwielded . So I have a demon trident maxed to +8 and a +6 war axe of freezing and a flaming greatsword, none of which have been used yet cos I don't want to lose this winning weapon.


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## tommers (Oct 20, 2018)

tommers said:


> Gargoyles are a good race, lots of AC, immunity to poison which is really helpful in Snake Pit and the Spider one.
> 
> Be careful of Slime Pit, it is a fucker, but good chance from here #nopressure
> 
> I've got a Spriggan Enchanter to the same level. Just cleared out Orc Mines and most of Lair (it got a bit much after about level 5 so I'm going to come back later). I think this is the furthest I've ever got a spellcaster.




And...died. 

Hydra Form ain't all it's cracked up to be.


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## tommers (Oct 20, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I will tackle lair first. if I can find it ddn't see an entrance on the way down, just one to the vaults and one to the orcish mines. Epic game last night tho, I got a +10 dagger of piercing with resist heat and a +10 dexterity boost. Have not looked back, the dagger is Fragile, it says it will break if unwielded . So I have a demon trident maxed to +8 and a +6 war axe of freezing and a flaming greatsword, none of which have been used yet cos I don't want to lose this winning weapon.



If you use Shift G you will see a list of all the branches you've found.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2018)

Troll armour and trogs hand give a good regen rate for toe to toes as well.

I don't know what the use is in training skills, I see others online recommending it. I'll set training targets for the weapon I am holding, but other than that no. Dunno if it matters

Almost scared to go back in case I lose my game straight away lol. Of course I would hit a winning streak with a character I named in a fit of childish vulgarity 'Dripping Gash'. So thats just going to sit at the top of the leaderboard for a while then


----------



## tommers (Oct 20, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I don't know what the use is in training skills, I see others online recommending it. I'll set training targets for the weapon I am holding, but other than that no. Dunno if it matters



Training just allows you to adjust the percentages of XP that go towards each skill.

I don't know whether to focus on the things you are good at, so you get really good at them. 

Or train up the stuff you're less good at and leave the others to train up anyway cos your modifier will make sure it goes quick whatever you do. 

I usually make sure that spellcasting or fighting or stealth is always on. Less so for individual weapons cos you might swap later. Spell schools when you want to quickly be able to use a more powerful spell. 

You also get HPs and MPs for some skills as you put them up. (I think) 

How do you name characters? I've never seen that.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2018)

Weapon skills directly contribute to accuracy, damage and reducing the attack delay, all of which increase damage per turn. Fighting gives some small bonuses but mostly increases your HP per level.

Spell skills (not Spellcasting) increase power and success % for casting. Spellcasting mostly just increases your MP and spell points available for learning - it's more like Fighting vs weapon skills.

I always put training on manual and train primary weapon, plus a couple of other ones as and when they're useful. For instance if I get a shield I'll maybe turn everything else off for a bit and just train Shields. Training Invocations is useful for gods with special abilities that use it, as opposed to, say, Trog, who doesn't need Invocations at all. I'll often put points into Armour if I've got heavy armour as that reduces penalties from it. Evocations is useful if you get an item that has an evocable effect like blinking.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2018)

tommers said:


> Training just allows you to adjust the percentages of XP that go towards each skill.
> 
> I don't know whether to focus on the things you are good at, so you get really good at them.
> 
> ...


at the start screen above 'crawl' and tutorial etc menu. where the name is,click there and type. Its particularly amusing or not when a player ghost of ARSEHOLE kills me early doors.

I'v just cleaned out lair 1-6, relatively easy after dungeons last two floors tbf! Not sure wether I am tough enough to do snake pit for the rune, I am poison resistant to the nines, have a ring of fire resistance so...

its either that or have a bash at orc mines, no rune in it but to level up past 16 mebbe.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> at the start screen above 'crawl' and tutorial etc menu. where the name is,click there and type. Its particularly amusing or not when a player ghost of ARSEHOLE kills me early doors.
> 
> I'v just cleaned out lair 1-6, relatively easy after dungeons last two floors tbf! Not sure wether I am tough enough to do snake pit for the rune, I am poison resistant to the nines, have a ring of fire resistance so...
> 
> its either that or have a bash at orc mines, no rune in it but to level up past 16 mebbe.


Orc mines is not that hard if you've cleared most of the dungeon, though be careful with orc warlords, and sorcerors/high priests can spam demon summoning so take them out quickly.

Elven halls (which is accessible through orc mines) is not as easy as it might appear, particularly level 3. Also, Depths, which are at the bottom of the dungeon, are really not as easy as just another dungeon level.

Basically past a certain point everything is horribly hard and can kill you at a moment's notice. You need to have an escape route planned at every point and never think "oh this looks easy I'll just dive right in here". In some games, getting to high levels means that you're basically invincible - in Crawl, it just means that everything that is trying to kill you is now super deadly, and you need to take more care than on level 1 with hobgoblins.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2018)

This death was so avoidable, if I had teleported sooner. I was making for the stairs to stair dance and thought I could take him... snake pit 2nd floor



One slip of judgement. RIP, Dripping Gash.


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## tommers (Oct 28, 2018)

Been playing Demonspawn to try out different mutations.  Also been using that Gold god. Never really tried it before but he's good. Gold basically stops being a worry and you can buy anything you find.  You can also get sets of potion effects instantly for a bit of gold (which you have plenty of). 

Anyway, I bought a +13 set of Crystal Plate from a shop. Cleared Lair, Orc Mine and on 3rd level of Elven Halls. Been a couple of moments in there but still alive. AC is 44


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## tommers (Oct 29, 2018)

And died.  On my third expedition to the Abyss to try and find the rune.  Saw it once but couldn't get to it 

Four runes though, just reached a bit too far.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2018)

d:15, titanic slime cunt. Last chamber of the level. Had relaxed into 'wonder if I shall tackle lair first or do orc mines'. Never got the chance. RIP Grimscythe, gargoyle berserk warrior of trog and owner of the best vampiric axe. RIP m8.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 7, 2018)

I had rock solid 32 strength and 30 ac as well, armour with +5 slay

At this point my goal is a rune. It was just 'clear the dungeon' but now I have done that once I thirst for more.


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## tommers (Nov 7, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I had rock solid 32 strength and 30 ac as well, armour with +5 slay
> 
> At this point my goal is a rune. It was just 'clear the dungeon' but now I have done that once I thirst for more.



Those are decent stats for that time in the game.  I'm at Elven Halls, got 2 runes, but only 20 odd AC and EV.  Got a mutation that reduces armour penalty.  Can I find any decent heavy armour?  Can I fuck.

Got a +11 Great Mace though, so there is that.

If you can clear the dungeon then getting runes isn't much more difficult.  Clear out Orc Mines, then Spiders or Snakes, then Swamp or Shoals and then maybe Elven Halls or Vaults before Depths.  Just make sure you have poison resistance for the first lot.  And there's no shame in running off and trying a different branch if you're finding it difficult or you're not quite up to the level.  Just don't go anywhere near Slime Pit. 

Oh I forgot about Lair.  The only things to worry about in there are Hydras.  Most of the monsters are beasts, hard-hitting but no resistances.  Decent AC and Poison Resistance will see you past most of them.


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## tommers (Nov 8, 2018)

Died in the Depths.   Some fucking acid bird or something.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 9, 2018)

tommers said:


> Died in the Depths.   Some fucking acid bird or something.


Caustic shrikes. They are on my “do not fuck with” list, along with titanic slime creatures, funnily enough.

I got my troll monk of Makhleb killed by Roxanne yesterday, a fairly rare unique. I sent in a load of summons to block LoS but then she blinked me to the other side of her and iron shotted me twice when I tried to close to melee. Fair play I suppose.


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## tommers (Nov 9, 2018)

Yeah. I was more bothered about the liches and fire giants and dragons. Ignored the birds until I noticed I had no armour left.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 11, 2018)

doing well here. Cleaned out all of dungeon, hard as nails. Just do top two floors of lair before I call it a night...


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## tommers (Nov 11, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> View attachment 152216
> 
> doing well here. Cleaned out all of dungeon, hard as nails. Just do top two floors of lair before I call it a night...


Nice. Where's that interface from? Looks different to mine.

It maybe it's the same but I don't have the inventory on show...


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## DotCommunist (Nov 11, 2018)

tommers said:


> Nice. Where's that interface from? Looks different to mine.
> 
> It maybe it's the same but I don't have the inventory on show...


I'm playing offline, apparently its slightly diff for online..is the above what you see when playing? its the image result for 'dungeon crawl online screenshot'


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## tommers (Nov 11, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm playing offline, apparently its slightly diff for online..is the above what you see when playing? its the image result for 'dungeon crawl online screenshot'


Yeah. There's probably a setting somewhere to change the format i guess.

I'm persisting with Spriggans and trying Ashenzari at the moment. You have to curse all your items and you get skill boosts and can see through walls and stuff.

Also found the +8 Autumn Katana    But cos my weapon is always cursed I never use it.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2018)

GET IN 

First rune :cool

Spider's nest
 

Slaggard's Stats

 

My rune

 

I'd like to thank tescos mini custard donuts and weed for this epic step towards winning

I've had this distortion weapon fluke me so many many times. Minator at the end of a labyrinth? one hit banishment. St Roka? bye. 

It feels good to be a gangster


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## tommers (Nov 19, 2018)

Haha, nice. Gargoyles "rock".   Brave choice to wield a distortion weapon. 

Do the other branch in Lair and then Vaults.

The way is open my friend.

Potions of mutation can cure mutations. That's all I'm saying.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2018)

Eh, its ok I can still use ranged throwing weapons and wands. Got a bottom row of 'big gun' weapons there as well, lantern of fire, rods etc. I doubt I could survive the Abyss yet despite 55 AC o. So I made the choice to win with it or die.

theres Shoal, Spider (done) and Slime present on Lair, obviously slime is mental so I'll do shoals. With wings the water is irrelevant, just hope me magic resist will keep sirens etc from merking me


----------



## tommers (Nov 19, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Eh, its ok I can still use ranged throwing weapons and wands. Got a bottom row of 'big gun' weapons there as well, lantern of fire, rods etc. I doubt I could survive the Abyss yet despite 55 AC o. So I made the choice to win with it or die.
> 
> theres Shoal, Spider (done) and Slime present on Lair, obviously slime is mental so I'll do shoals. With wings the water is irrelevant, just hope me magic resist will keep sirens etc from merking me



Sirens are alright, they just stop you moving away.  I would think that you'll be fine in Shoals with those stats.  Have you finished the Dungeon already?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2018)

tommers said:


> Sirens are alright, they just stop you moving away.  I would think that you'll be fine in Shoals with those stats.  Have you finished the Dungeon already?


I did dungeon (with a rewarding Labyrinth in there and a treasure trove I can't open the door to yet), Lair, orc mine and then spider. I basically waked through lair with this character tho, every item I own is pimp gear.


----------



## tommers (Nov 19, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I did dungeon (with a rewarding Labyrinth in there and a treasure trove I can't open the door to yet), Lair, orc mine and then spider. I basically waked through lair with this character tho, every item I own is pimp gear.



Haha, they can always be improved.  The armour is the best bit, fits your character really well (no cast doesn't matter).  By the end you would expect to have artifacts in most slots.

I have a treasure trove that needs 17 teleport scrolls to open.  Can it really be worth it??


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2018)

Probaby not, just be disappointing like when trog gives me b-list weapons as a gift. My trove just wants six agility potions I think.


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## tommers (Nov 19, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Probaby not, just be disappointing like when trog gives me b-list weapons as a gift. My trove just wants six agility potions I think.




Hahha, perfect.  The stars are aligning.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 19, 2018)

Shoals isn't too tricky if you're hard and water doesn't bother you, but I advise having some sort of reflection because merfolk javelineers can really bite if they start throwing en masse, and it can be hard to find cover. (Luckily the current version seems to be littered with amulets of reflection.) The toughest things there are probably krakens and they're not actually that tough.


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## tommers (Nov 19, 2018)

I just swapped armour and rings etc. so now I've got full resistances but slightly lower AC (it was 45 before).  Figured that might help.  Need some better boots and cloak.

Cleared everything down to the last floor of Zot.  Done Crypt, going to try Tomb tomorrow.  Possibly Abyss if that gets too tricky but it killed me last time I got to this stage. 

Borgnjor's Vile Clutch is a great spell.  Get it if you can.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 20, 2018)

only used 1 teleport scroll, when level fours unique and some wind drakes were tag teaming me. To the vaults! But not tonight lol


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## DotCommunist (Nov 20, 2018)

The INTERNETS seems divided on wether or not to do Depths first then Vault. Everyone agrees that Vault 5 is genuinly rock hard tho. I may try the first floor of depths....


tommers whats the most runes you've escaped with?


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## tommers (Nov 20, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> The INTERNETS seems divided on wether or not to do Depths first then Vault. Everyone agrees that Vault 5 is genuinly rock hard tho. I may try the first floor of depths....
> 
> tommers whats the most runes you've escaped with?



Four (from looking at this thread).  I've got 4 at the minute and  I'm going to try to maybe get 6 this time (the basic 4 + tomb and abyss).  I also want to see what a Ziggurat is like.

I've been to the Hells before.  It wasn't too awful but I chickened out and then died in the Abyss.

First time I would say to do it with 3.  Just get it under your belt rather than messing about.

Have you done Elven Halls yet?  Will probably be easier than Vaults and decent treasure in there.  Vaults gives you a rune though and treasure but yes, 5 is... tricky.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 20, 2018)

tommers said:


> Have you done Elven Halls yet?


not yet, might be worth it for the XP and treasure, after I do a floor of depths


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## tommers (Nov 20, 2018)

Ziggurats are brilliant. 

I've spent the last ten minutes trying to decide whether or not to cut and run, or chance another level.  I'm on ten and that was the limit I set myself.  8 had a Pandemonium Lord for fuck's sake.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 20, 2018)

This is Crawl. The answer is always "did you have trouble the last time? if so get out right the hell now".


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## tommers (Nov 20, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> This is Crawl. The answer is always "did you have trouble the last time? if so get out right the hell now".



Yeah, I did.  Discretion and all that.


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## tommers (Nov 20, 2018)

Died on Tomb 3

 



Killed by a fucking bird again.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 20, 2018)

I was defeated on the first floor of depths when playing after dinner. I wasn't concentrating enough, I don't want to  blame the dog but the cow was acting up in my eyeline at this time. Spark wasp and others, surrounded. I didn't blink and teleport quick enough, 3 out of four of the cunts smashed me dead in what felt like 1 turn. RIP slaggard.

was too gutted to start another game tonight but the saga will continue


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## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2018)

'whats that on the ground there in D:1? Why, it is some bolts. Better pick those up for where there is bolts there will be something to fire them from soon.'

AND YET THERE NEVER IS ANYTHING

arbalest on d:11 or shit like that, when I already have a branded, trained sling and loads of bullets. And don't get me started on the rarity of fustabilers, guaranteed you are holding a +4 sing of venom before one of those turns up. Bad workman blames his tools etc


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 3, 2018)

I'm trying Ashenzari as a god at the moment. I'd always shied away from him/her/it as you don't actually get much in the way of powers to kill stuff - the skill bonuses aren't really all that great - but as you get deeper in and you have to start being a lot more tactical, Scrying (see through everything) becomes really useful. Also, clarity becomes very valuable in situations where being confused for a turn will get you killed.

posting this obviously means I'm going to die now of course


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## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm trying Ashenzari


the one where curses are good for your gear?

I'm sticking with trog atm because I'm convinced this gargoyle berserker run can give me a 3 rune victory eventually.
 Here we are again, with all of dungeon, lair and orc mines cleared. Now, to see if I can manage more than 2 runes with Karnak


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> the one where curses are good for your gear?


Sort of - you get skill bonuses based on what items are cursed and how many. So I have trident and shield cursed and so get a fair sized bonus in polearms and shields. Also I think you get piety faster the more curses you have. But you lose flexibility, and skill bonuses, while nice, don’t mean a lot when your main skills are high anyway. Plus most of the items I’ve found are rubbish :/

You get automatic identify too which is another nice but not stunning power.

OTOH this is the first time I’ve used Ash and I’ve already got one rune so maybe I’m underestimating this stuff.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm sticking with trog atm because I'm convinced this gargoyle berserker run can give me a 3 rune victory eventually.
> Here we are again, with all of dungeon, lair and orc mines cleared. Now, to see if I can manage more than 2 runes with Karnak
> 
> View attachment 154365


Btw I’ve found that you start having to massively spam Trog powers past a certain point and/or use them earlier in fights - Brothers In Arms is great for a lot of the game but once you’re in the Depths or Vaults you regularly face things that are at the same power level as your summons, in larger numbers, so it becomes an assist rather than an emergency button.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 4, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Btw I’ve found that you start having to massively spam Trog powers past a certain point and/or use them earlier in fights - Brothers In Arms is great for a lot of the game but once you’re in the Depths or Vaults you regularly face things that are at the same power level as your summons, in larger numbers, so it becomes an assist rather than an emergency button.


Only other one I tried is Wu Jain, bit gimmick at low levels but the sort-of-blink is ok

read this numbers thing yesterday may be of interest:
Data Crawl Stone Soup: analyzing species in DCSS

e2a the idea of a bot completing it when I cannot is annoying. I know its brute force but still


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 10, 2018)

I’m surprisingly not dead yet  I did nearly die on Depths:3 and have now run out of heal wounds potions but got away.

The problem is that it’s a Spiders Nest/Swamp/Slime combo and while I’ve done the first two quite easily, Slime is still way too hard. But I doubt I’ll be able to do Vaults for a while either. I’m still getting shitty equipment everywhere - literally my best item is a +3 trident of cold, and given that I have to curse all my shit I need to find really good stuff that I can stick with. Not even a demon trident ffs.

Ash’s scrying would be more useful if I had any way of actually defeating the monsters I have warning of through cunning tactics etc, but being able to track ten hydras and three ice dragons and the odd lich through walls is less handy when they’ll just kill you when they find you anyway.


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## tommers (Dec 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I’m surprisingly not dead yet  I did nearly die on Depths:3 and have now run out of heal wounds potions but got away.
> 
> The problem is that it’s a Spiders Nest/Swamp/Slime combo and while I’ve done the first two quite easily, Slime is still way too hard. But I doubt I’ll be able to do Vaults for a while either. I’m still getting shitty equipment everywhere - literally my best item is a +3 trident of cold, and given that I have to curse all my shit I need to find really good stuff that I can stick with. Not even a demon trident ffs.
> 
> Ash’s scrying would be more useful if I had any way of actually defeating the monsters I have warning of through cunning tactics etc, but being able to track ten hydras and three ice dragons and the odd lich through walls is less handy when they’ll just kill you when they find you anyway.


Elven Halls? Lots of treasure at the bottom of that.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 10, 2018)

tommers said:


> Elven Halls? Lots of treasure at the bottom of that.


I’ve never really got much out of Elf apart from XP in the past but it’s probably a good next step.

I breezed through Orc. Is it just me or is it a lot easier now?


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 10, 2018)

Some of this may be because I’m playing a merfolk gladiator and I usually go Okawaru with them so am used to ending up with a lot of nice god gifts around now.


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## tommers (Dec 11, 2018)

I tried a Spriggan Enchanter again last night.  Cleared Orc but died in Lair (Basilisk petrified me, 8 headed hydra ate me).  Typically the loot was crystal plate, +10 large shield etc etc.

One day Rodney, one day.

Toxic radiance + Ignite Poison is quite fun though.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 11, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> . Is it just me or is it a lot easier now?


St Roka turning up in orc does ruin my day


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## DotCommunist (Dec 14, 2018)

Got a demonspawn berserker to d:13 yesterday (no 9 in the top ten of dead ), was interesting. Fucked by lack of poison resistance in the end, thats why gargoyle is an easier pick, you come with some decent innate resistances and then trogs hand takes care of magery

e2a

I also survived reading a scroll of holy word, which fucked me harder than a torment scroll would


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## tommers (Dec 14, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I also survived reading a scroll of holy word, which fucked me harder than a torment scroll would



That is always a nasty shock 

I like Demonspawn cos you get a nice mutation surprise every few levels.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2018)

argh just got a demonspawn berserker all the way to 2nd floor of spider then got reamed by 2 spark wasps. Thats the second time I've been wiped out high level by spark wasps, last time I was going for the third rune in vaults, floor 1. For fucks sake.


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## tommers (Jan 3, 2019)

just found a treasure room that needs the abyssal rune of Zot to open 

it'll be a +4 hand axe and 2 potions of curing


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 3, 2019)

I eventually died with the Ashenzari merfolk gladiator. I did get some slightly better equipment (Hall Of Blades in Elf ftw) but in the end, fighters start to have trouble in the late game, and gods can help them cope with the harder late branches. I got a couple of runes but couldn't get Slime and couldn't do Vault so thought I might try the Abyss. And... no, a starcursed mass killed me in Abyss:3 at level 24.

Ash is tactically very useful but, late game, that only helps if you are very strong anyway. Maybe for a hardcore caster. Quite hard to change gods from too as you take a massive skill penalty during the penance phase. I think TSO is probably the best overall for fighters.


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## tommers (Jan 4, 2019)

I've gone back to basics.  Minotaur Fighter.  Qazlal as god.  Basically walk in to the room surrounded by fire and lightning and kill everything as quickly as possible.

Working so far.  2 runes down.  Almost died in Elven Halls, but going back there next.


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## tommers (Jan 6, 2019)

6 runes comrades. Just got the bone one from Tartarus.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 6, 2019)

I've been aiming to get a demonspawn berserker all the way (or at least further than my dead 2 rune gargoyle bz). of interest in my various deaths:
got a necklace with a dead finger on it which you can wear a third ring on. Got a cursed ring of loudness stuck on it.

found a treasure trove that just wanted all my piety. I checked to make sure it wasn't going to make me renounce trog (he is a jealous god, and not mocked). But it just wanted my piety, so I went with it. Not much of note iirc except a pimped fustilabus, soon got the piety back up to normal.


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## tommers (Jan 6, 2019)

Torment is the single most annoying thing in the whole game.


----------



## tommers (Jan 8, 2019)




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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 8, 2019)

I honestly don't understand why I am so fucking bad at this game. I mean I've been playing it for like 12 versions now; I know the wiki off by heart, even things I've never encountered I could tell you about; I play it regularly at home and work; I'm generally okay at tactical roguelike stuff, I wouldn't say particularly amazing but competent enough. Yet have I ever even got anywhere near winning Crawl? Literally fucking once and I didn't even get the Orb because I thought "oh before I do Zot:5 let's have a quick look in the Crypt, it can't be as hard as people say" ffs yes it bloody can, particularly if you hit a teleport trap into the central chamber.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2019)

I've been playing it since late summer last year and I haven't got more than 2 runes yet. The easy two on lair. Most of my high score deaths have been my own fault tho. 95% maybe. Overconfidence usually. Not checking what monsters have vs my resistances.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 8, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> I've been playing it since late summer last year and I haven't got more than 2 runes yet. The easy two on lair. Most of my high score deaths have been my own fault tho. 95% maybe. Overconfidence usually. Not checking what monsters have vs my resistances.


You’re definitely doing better than me. It took me ages to even get a rune.


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## tommers (Jan 9, 2019)

I found out yesterday that you can see scores on the server, including a record of every game you have ever played.  My win rate is 0.63%   One guy has a run of 138 consecutive victories.  I have no idea how. 

I don't have many tips, that was by far my best run.  All I would say is that both times I've completed it online my character had a great shield value with reflection.  Resistances also seem to play a huge part.  Once you get those up then nothing can really hurt you apart from torment, damnation and smiting.  The game becomes avoiding monsters who can cast that, or killing them as quickly as possible.  If you've got a decent shield then physical damage becomes less important, unless you've been tormented down to low hp and then the odd hit might kill you.  My AC for that character wasn't anything brilliant. 

The Hells and Pandemonium were pretty similar difficulty.  Both full of fiends and tormentors and hellions, no other monsters matter.  The Hells have that shitty thing where they attack you every 20 turns so you can never really rest.  Trick is to just run down through as quick as you can and don't be afraid to escape again to the top if you have problems.  You're always making it easier the more monsters you kill.  Scrolls of magic mapping are really useful for that.

Tomb is the worst.  Greater Mummies and Mummy Priests are as bad as fiends.  I bottled that.

Qazlal is cool.  Repel Missiles, extra shield, damaging clouds all around you and Disaster Area is fucking brilliant at high invocations.  Fields of lava.  The only downside is that you are basically at top noise for the whole game, so you get a massive rush of monsters whenever you enter a level.

I almost died a couple of times, like down to 3 hp with a Pandemonium Lord in view.  In those situations Scrolls of Fog are absolutely your best friend.

Probably one of the best gaming things I've done in ages.  Proper nervous at times.  I got lucky in that I got a decent Holy weapon, which really helps late on.

If you get down to half HP then it's time to start escaping, or at least thinking about it.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 19, 2019)

having a bit of a charmed run atm, demonspawn berserker. Done lair mines and all of dungeon. Found two experience potions, one outside a Bailey and one inside. Two manuals, shields and fighting. Shield at 27 (+4 reflection amulet) . Powered by pain,  magic shield & regen...good mutations. This is the first generous run I've had in a while. Last time I tried Elf halls I got banished to the abyss twice and died on there on the second visit so I might skip it and go for one of the runes on lair.

its also just been a satisfying run. For the first time I used a scroll of silence to do what its for and take out Roxanne. I dominated an ice cavern (whatever its called) bonus level, taking out multiple ice statues (one at a time obvs) with ranged shots then closing with a flaming scimitar. Tried to polymorph an oklob plant on the last level of Lair and it turned into a shambling mangrove, ran from that quickly. It can stay where it is.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 19, 2019)

I keep mixing up ziggurats and bazaars. And then not leaving the ziggurats.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 6, 2019)

Finally got a rune with a demonspawn berserker  !


demonic guardian is hench at 3. So is sanguine armour. 
I actually went braindead getting that shield. A room with 4 orange crystal statues. Drained my intelligence savagely. But its well worth it imo, and my intel is back to respectable levels


----------



## tommers (Feb 6, 2019)

Nice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 6, 2019)

and thats swamp rune also. I was wearing a spirit scarf and a ring of magic, the spirit scarf makes your magic a secondary health bar and magic ring gives you a bigger 'health/magic' bar. Why not. But although I have a small pip of mutated poison resistance I was still getting dosed hard. So I swapped over to a 2 cloak of poison resist and after that it all went very smoothly, esp after I'd found a named ring with flight etc. If I even take a lick of damage my sanguine armour dumps a ton of AC on me and actual hard demon guardians appear. Balrogs level hard.

only the second time I have been here, now its that tricky third rune.


----------



## tommers (Feb 6, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> and thats swamp rune also. I was wearing a spirit scarf and a ring of magic, the spirit scarf makes your magic a secondary health bar and magic ring gives you a bigger 'health/magic' bar. Why not. But although I have a small pip of mutated poison resistance I was still getting dosed hard. So I swapped over to a 2 cloak of poison resist and after that it all went very smoothly, esp after I'd found a named ring with flight etc. If I even take a lick of damage my sanguine armour dumps a ton of AC on me and actual hard demon guardians appear. Balrogs level hard.
> 
> only the second time I have been here, now its that tricky third rune.


Balrogs are always helpful.

Which one are you going for? Slime or Vaults?

Do Elven Halls first.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 6, 2019)

tommers said:


> Balrogs are always helpful.
> 
> Which one are you going for? Slime or Vaults?
> 
> Do Elven Halls first.


I'd better do vaults cos slime looks solid, there is a slime god altar there but that means renouncing etc and no. Simple 3 rune run with a silver rune

I'm in two minds about elven halls, I have never beaten it and last time I did it I got banished to the abyss and died. Mr Hellsreach has very good magic resistance tho so would that help? fuckin hate the abyss.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 6, 2019)

Got banished fucking twice by Louise from the Dungeon (GrBe). The first time I managed to get through and make my way back. The second time, when I was just about to finish her off, no, that was enough.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 6, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd better do vaults cos slime looks solid, there is a slime god altar there but that means renouncing etc and no. Simple 3 rune run with a silver rune
> 
> I'm in two minds about elven halls, I have never beaten it and last time I did it I got banished to the abyss and died. Mr Hellsreach has very good magic resistance tho so would that help? fuckin hate the abyss.


Halls has got a lot harder IMO recently and is difficult but Slime is basically pretty impossible.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 6, 2019)

Slime is due for a debuff IMO.

All the other mid rune branches are fairly easy if you have poison resistance which you really should have by that point; you just need some tactical sense. Slime spawns on the same level as that but is absolutely rock hard. I found Zot easier in cases where I've got that far.


----------



## tommers (Feb 6, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd better do vaults cos slime looks solid, there is a slime god altar there but that means renouncing etc and no. Simple 3 rune run with a silver rune
> 
> I'm in two minds about elven halls, I have never beaten it and last time I did it I got banished to the abyss and died. Mr Hellsreach has very good magic resistance tho so would that help? fuckin hate the abyss.



Vaults 5 is a MF.  Straight down into a horde of monsters, including people who can block the exit stairs.  Basically kill as many as you can before running away.  Back up the stairs if possible or teleport away and hope for the best if they are blocked. Buff as much as you can before you go down. 

You can run through Slime, there's no loot until you get to the bottom.  You don't need to kill everything.

Royal Jelly, however, is also a MF.

Both are really difficult but you can do Dungeon, Orc Mines and Elven Halls before you try them.  There are usually artifacts at the bottom of Halls which might help.  And it's only the last level of Vaults which is really tough.  I mean the first few levels are difficult but nothing like the same.


----------



## tommers (Feb 6, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Slime is due for a debuff IMO.
> 
> All the other mid rune branches are fairly easy if you have poison resistance which you really should have by that point; you just need some tactical sense. Slime spawns on the same level as that but is absolutely rock hard. I found Zot easier in cases where I've got that far.



Yeah, it's in a different league to Swamp or Snake or whatever.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 6, 2019)

yes! three runes 
Did elven then Vault  yeah it was tough but luck and good gear was on my side. Used 1 teleport scroll and no potions. ave it

was banished twice on vault 5 but survived long enough to make it out and claim my rune


----------



## tommers (Feb 7, 2019)

Just the final bit to do then. Good luck.


----------



## mojo pixy (Feb 7, 2019)

Ideally a game should be winnable by any class but I get the impression this one really just needs a run-bash-run tank, I tried this once or twice and maybe it was my technique but I got the impression rogues and magic users are just meant not to win a roguelike, no matter how subtle it appears.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> Ideally a game should be winnable by any class but I get the impression this one really just needs a run-bash-run tank, I tried this once or twice and maybe it was my technique but I got the impression rogues and magic users are just meant not to win a roguelike, no matter how subtle it appears.


with the right god and spellbooks you can get fighter/blasters who are tough as fuck. I haven't got the patience to play that style though. I prefer to Conan it.


----------



## tommers (Feb 7, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> Ideally a game should be winnable by any class but I get the impression this one really just needs a run-bash-run tank, I tried this once or twice and maybe it was my technique but I got the impression rogues and magic users are just meant not to win a roguelike, no matter how subtle it appears.




Most spellcasters are glass cannons, and you need some defence in this game.  It is doable though, lots of people have.  It's just easier with fighter types.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 7, 2019)

High level spells in Crawl are pretty amazing - I’ve watched people on crawl.akrasiac.org and Firestorm can wipe out whole groups of tough enemies in just a few turns - but bashing people is easier and I can’t even win like that so I’m not going to mess around with casters right now. Allegedly if you want to win with lots of runes you need a caster but I’ll settle for winning at all.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2019)

Cleared depths. Now its either zot, hell or crypt. I can cover most things in zot except the orb of fire giving one bad mutations. 
closest I came to dying in depths was a hellion hanging around a hell entrance. That smite/damnation thing they have is bad. When and if I start the orb run I'll have to face pandemonium lords etc all presumably with similar smiting attacks. 
cross that bridge when i come to it. I have some amazing +15 artefact armour, with a suit of useful resistances but its also no teleport while wearing. it give me 46 AC (as opposed to the 35 I have with plate armour). However when sanguine armour dumps +12 AC on me the 35 jumps to 47. On balance I will just use the normal armour I recon. Even if teleport is slow its good to have it there in emergency. r


----------



## tommers (Feb 7, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> Cleared depths. Now its either zot, hell or crypt. I can cover most things in zot except the orb of fire giving one bad mutations.
> closest I came to dying in depths was a hellion hanging around a hell entrance. That smite/damnation thing they have is bad. When and if I start the orb run I'll have to face pandemonium lords etc all presumably with similar smiting attacks.
> cross that bridge when i come to it. I have some amazing +15 artefact armour, with a suit of useful resistances but its also no teleport while wearing. it give me 46 AC (as opposed to the 35 I have with plate armour). However when sanguine armour dumps +12 AC on me the 35 jumps to 47. On balance I will just use the normal armour I recon. Even if teleport is slow its good to have it there in emergency. r



I would just complete it.  Leave Hells and stuff till a later run.  Once you get through Zot the run back is pretty easy.  Just run.  Only fight if you absolutely have to.

I would say you're pretty set, from what you've said.

Crypt is alright, Tomb is not.  But seriously, just complete it.  Don't fanny about.

Potions of mutation also cure mutations.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 8, 2019)

I had the orb! but I could not get off of Zot five. A gnats ballhair away from victory. Done in by a pandemonium lord   . lvl 26 hardman, Hellsreach. RIP.
That was a damn good run though. Next time gadget.

I did try to run and avoid fights but I couldn't get past this fucker and his minions. Disappointing on one hand but on the other hand I know its doable now, by me. Just need another crack at the orb run.


----------



## tommers (Feb 8, 2019)

No fucking way. I thought you had it in the bag. I was expecting a triumphant screen grab. 



Next time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 19, 2019)

irritating loss last night. Going for rune 2 in swamp, I've walked (carefully, but no sweat) through all four levels to the last chamber of level 4, no lyrnaen hydra. Got surrounded by simalucra of hydras etc. I repeatedly tried to spam summons and nothing happened so I died. I had dozens of ways out of that situation, easy ways but I just fucked it. Convinced a demonspawn berserker is my shot at the 3 rune win though, with the right set of mutations.


----------



## tommers (Feb 21, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> irritating loss last night. Going for rune 2 in swamp, I've walked (carefully, but no sweat) through all four levels to the last chamber of level 4, no lyrnaen hydra. Got surrounded by simalucra of hydras etc. I repeatedly tried to spam summons and nothing happened so I died. I had dozens of ways out of that situation, easy ways but I just fucked it. Convinced a demonspawn berserker is my shot at the 3 rune win though, with the right set of mutations.



I did it first with a Demonspawn Gladiator.

Currently in Lair with a(nother) Gargoyle Elementalist.

This time.


----------



## tommers (Feb 21, 2019)

tommers said:


> This time.



Not this time.

Asterion.  Snake Pit 1.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 22, 2019)

I died on vault 4, bastard sealed the doors on me. Second highest on my scoreboard tho at 21

I know I moan about elf but it is unreasonably hard, it expects 4 pips of magic resistance to avoid banishment, which is taking the piss imo. I didn't get banished this time because I constantly boosted Trogs Hand and had some magic resistant gear, But still. Its harder than the two easy runes on lair and that doesn't seem right to me. Immense loot though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 27, 2019)

Elf halls 1, hell sentinel. Which the wiki says appears on a few places but it doesn't say elven halls 1. Unfair in the extreme. Shennanigans. I have two other demonspawn on the go at 15 and 16 respectively but both of them have to do spider next with no poison resistance.


----------



## tommers (Mar 27, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> Elf halls 1, hell sentinel. Which the wiki says appears on a few places but it doesn't say elven halls 1. Unfair in the extreme. Shennanigans. I have two other demonspawn on the go at 15 and 16 respectively but both of them have to do spider next with no poison resistance.



Hell Sentinels at that level is not fair.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 27, 2019)

I’m guessing they would have been summoned - that’s the really nasty bit, when elf demonologists start popping out tier 1 demons. Okay, the odd crystal spear is not much fun either.

I swear it has got way harder recently and it’s not even as if you get a lot out of it. Orc, on the other hand, seems easier.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2019)

closest run I have had in a while. If I can clear Vault again then I am confident I can make it to the Orb Run


----------



## tommers (May 4, 2019)

I've managed to get a Deep Elf to second level of Lair.  

Found this early on, never seen it before:


It's a cage that goes round your head.


----------



## tommers (May 8, 2019)

Got 3 runes, cleared everything down to middle of Depths, just having a crack at Crypt and Tomb.  I got hold of the Necromutation spell, for the first time ever.  No more torment!  This makes the end game so much easier (next post "I died in Tomb").

It's the first time I have ever got a normal spellcaster this far. Problem is pretty much anything can kill me with about two hits, makes everything very tense.


----------



## tommers (May 9, 2019)

I died in Tomb. 

Next time.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 9, 2019)

tommers said:


> I died in Tomb.
> 
> Next time.


Appropriate place to die though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 17, 2019)

First time I've got three runes in a dogs age


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 27, 2019)

died within sight of the orb of zot. Absolute rinse. Stupidity man, final chamber of zot 5. By this rate I will manage the three rune win by next January.


----------



## tommers (Jun 28, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> died within sight of the orb of zot. Absolute rinse. Stupidity man, final chamber of zot 5. By this rate I will manage the three rune win by next January. View attachment 175548


 this is getting silly.

I've been trying (and failing) to get anywhere with a fragile character. The toxic radiance / ignite poison combo is a definite winner, until a red dragon one shots you.


----------



## tommers (Jul 20, 2019)

Mephitic Cloud + Ignite Poison = Burning clouds
Mephitic Cloud + Ignite Poison + Bjorgolfnor's Vile Clutch = monsters held in burning clouds
Mephitic Cloud + Ignite Poison + BVC + Water = monsters held in burning clouds surrounded by scalding steam.


----------



## tommers (Jul 28, 2019)

you and me both mate.


----------



## tommers (Aug 1, 2019)

Paris server (xtahua) has "melted" apparently.  Possibly all data lost. 

and I had a great character on the go as well, cleared everything down to mid-Depths.  Apparently it will be back next week maybe but no existing data apart from "maybe some ghosts".


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 1, 2019)

ach, bad luck. I'm still playing on the home version. I have a demonspawn berserker (Shitlord) at the very gates of Zot,  3rd time lucky maybe. I'm going in later.


----------



## tommers (Aug 1, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> ach, bad luck. I'm still playing on the home version. I have a demonspawn berserker (Shitlord) at the very gates of Zot,  3rd time lucky maybe. I'm going in later.


What's the home version?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 1, 2019)

tommers said:


> What's the home version?


the not online one. The only ghosts I see are my own, only me on the scoreboard etc. this
Download - Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 30, 2019)

I found the Desolation of Salt the other day, in elf 1. Loads of enemies I'd never seen before, died far too quickly.

 But I am fairly hench with this run:
 
that +18 shield is immense. Attempt number 5 on the orb coming up


----------



## tommers (Oct 31, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> I found the Desolation of Salt the other day, in elf 1. Loads of enemies I'd never seen before, died far too quickly.
> 
> But I am fairly hench with this run:
> View attachment 188610
> that +18 shield is immense. Attempt number 5 on the orb coming up


Yeah nice. I got an air mage to Vaults 5 yesterday but died. Lost 50 hp in one turn .

Desolation is quite cool. Just try to pick em off one at a time, don't let them swarm you. Can be quite hairy though.

Good luck!


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2019)

Its taken me nearly a full year but I finally escaped with the orb of zot.


----------



## tommers (Nov 1, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> View attachment 188730
> 
> 
> 
> Its taken me nearly a full year but I finally escaped with the orb of zot.


Hahahaha. Fucking yes! Well done mate. Never in fucking doubt.

[emoji16]You beauty. The first of many.


----------



## tommers (Nov 1, 2019)

You would be able to put that on your cv in any kind of just society.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2019)

Few people I know in the real will understand what an achievement it is tbf, I should make myself a certificate. Bastard of a game sometimes. I pulled off the scroll of immolation move when dropping into vault 5, after that it was all Diabloyola's day, e'ry day.


----------



## tommers (Nov 1, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> Few people I know in the real will understand what an achievement it is tbf, I should make myself a certificate. Bastard of a game sometimes. I pulled off the scroll of immolation move when dropping into vault 5, after that it was all Diabloyola's day, e'ry day.


Yes. Don't mention it to real people. They don't get it. It's a proper achievement. Finishing that game is something that not many people do. You should be well happy.

I hadn't even thought of setting everybody on fire in Vaults 5. I always drop those scrolls. 

Nice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2019)

Fuckin get in, a four rune win. I knew I was on for the orb run and had been wondering if to go four a fourth and if so which one, got hoofed into the abyss on zot 2 and grabbed the abyssal rune while fighting my way out. Would never have tried for that one but I'll take it 
Another use of immolation scroll on vault 5. You only need 2 pips of fire resistance, why not.


----------



## tommers (Dec 29, 2019)

Dog just killed me.  My actual dog, walked on the spacebar.  Left me down to half health, surrounded in Orc Mines.  Three bad potion rolls later game over. Bloody mutt.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm never going to finish this game am I


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 5, 2020)

Since they stopped supporting old windows and made me have new windows the download version of crawl is irretrievably fucked. It cant do the tiles correctly, big white patches replacing a lot of tiles like walls etc. Looked the problem up and there is no fix.
So  I've been playing it on a server with the window fullscreened. massively annoying tbf. Haven't even nicked an easy rune yet.


----------



## tommers (Feb 7, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> Since they stopped supporting old windows and made me have new windows the download version of crawl is irretrievably fucked. It cant do the tiles correctly, big white patches replacing a lot of tiles like walls etc. Looked the problem up and there is no fix.
> So  I've been playing it on a server with the window fullscreened. massively annoying tbf. Haven't even nicked an easy rune yet.



I'm confused.  Do you mean here:  Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup  ?


----------



## tommers (Feb 22, 2020)

First time finished with a spellcaster.  👍


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 17, 2020)

tommers said:


> I'm confused.  Do you mean here:  Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup  ?


yeah, I've played one good game so far but died in a bailey before I cleared dungeon though so not that good but it had potential. Now the plague is here there will be lots of time to hammer it till I win again.


----------



## tommers (Apr 5, 2020)

Vaults 5 after 5 rounds.  Death Channel, Infestation, Toxic Radiance + ignite poison.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 10, 2020)

_Surely_ I must be able to get a win on this fucker now. _Surely_.


----------



## tommers (Apr 10, 2020)

Now is your time. 

That character died in Zot. Really frustrating cos it had everything for an attempt on a full rune run (had 5 already) but fell down a shaft and got surrounded. So im giving it a rest for a bit.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2020)

I got a new pc, ryzen 7 with graphics out the hoo-ha. First thing I did was download the latest stable version of Crawl for a proper bash at it, works fine now. I got dishonoured 2 as well, but spent longer on crawl last night.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 22, 2020)

Well I was _nearly_ there.

```
MiFi-26 blasted by an orb of fire (Zot:4)
```

I have to say that I was clearing Zot pretty easily up until the point where a draconian shifter put me in a corridor full of absolute bullshit, and then two blinks made it worse. I did get to use a phantom mirror on an orb of fire though. Would have been better to do that earlier on in the fight when I had more than 30-odd HP.


----------



## tommers (Jun 4, 2020)

tommers said:


> That character died in Zot. Really frustrating cos it had everything for an attempt on a full rune run (had 5 already)



Happened again.  Nearly identical character, killed by a quicksilver dragon of all fucking things.  Annoying.  Zot 5, 5 runes.  Just wanted to clear it before I went and tackled Hells, Pandemonium and all that good stuff.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 4, 2020)

why the fuck am I still playing this game after like ten years of utter failure


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2020)

I was playing this in another window on a zoom call recently and probably said "fuck!" obviously enough for a lip reader to notice when the latest character died really very prematurely and unfairly.


----------



## tommers (Jun 26, 2020)

just found "the Elemental Staff" - 2 pips of RF & RC, RElec, buffs elemental damage and MR++.

Swoon.

oh and it does extra random element damage sometimes too


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2020)

Had my first real close run on the new machine earlier in the week, adjusting to playing on a full size keyboard took some minor getting used to. Demonspawn BZ as usual. Thing is when I went to Vaults I forgot its vault 5 you need to drop into and torch everyone, so I went gung ho into vault 1. It threw me off beam, small error but things spiralled till I hit vault 5 and then ran shit out of luck. And teleport scrolls. 

Next time I get three runes I'm going to clear zot and try for two more before doing the orb run.


----------



## tommers (Jun 27, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> Had my first real close run on the new machine earlier in the week, adjusting to playing on a full size keyboard took some minor getting used to. Demonspawn BZ as usual. Thing is when I went to Vaults I forgot its vault 5 you need to drop into and torch everyone, so I went gung ho into vault 1. It threw me off beam, small error but things spiralled till I hit vault 5 and then ran shit out of luck. And teleport scrolls.
> 
> Next time I get three runes I'm going to clear zot and try for two more before doing the orb run.



V5 is always a pain. I tried your immolate tactic the other day, worked alright. Bit dicey though. 😁

I fucked it up in D15. Killed by an Orc Knight (!). Had more than 10 heal wounds in my pack, just tried to style it out. Ridiculous. 

Lots of magic has changed in 0.25 btw. BVC is pretty fucked, dispel undead is touch range but there a couple of other new things to try.


----------



## tommers (Jul 1, 2020)

Full rune run.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2020)

nice. Toughest rune?


----------



## tommers (Jul 1, 2020)

Tomb, by a country mile.  Lichform completely changes the game.  Makes you immune to torment, gives full cold & negative resistance and no hunger.  You just have to target anything that can cast dispel undead or hellfire.  Pan & Hell were reasonably straightforwards, Tomb had me popping back upstairs a few times when I was low on health and MP.  I cleared Zot reasonably early and that was a bit tricky but the closest I came to dying was a transporter on Crypt 1.  

The new level 9 cold spell is "Absolute Zero".  It turns any monster into a block of ice with no resistances but you can't target it, it affects the closest one.  Turning a Pan lord or one of the lords of Hell into a block of ice instantly is pretty funny.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 1, 2020)

fuck y'all


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 3, 2020)

```
155711 fridge the Impaler (level 17, -17/135 HPs)
             Began as a Merfolk Gladiator on June 26, 2020.
             Was the Champion of Makhleb.
             Killed by burning poison
             ... invoked by fridge's illusion (illusionary)
             ... woven by Mara
              (48 damage)
             ... on level 3 of the Spider Nest on July 3, 2020.
             The game lasted 02:41:23 (30228 turns).
```
So that might need some explanation: I was in Spiders Nest and was using poison plus Ignite Poison to a pretty profitable effect - bugs are usually vulnerable to poison, and at max poison level Ignite does an awful lot of damage.

Unfortunately I then met Mara and also Roxanne at the same time. I should really have just run away but I tried to fight it out. I killed Roxanne but that just gave Mara lots of time to clone both himself and me. I did kill a lot of stuff with a wand of clouds and sometimes ignite poison again when that made poison gas, but in the end, an emperor scorpion somehow poisoned me (through my resistance) and then my clone used my own bloody spell and blew me up.

I don't mind that one so much, at least it's different.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 20, 2020)

Early days but this is a promising run. I need to get a win on this PC's scoreboard so I'm only after three and the orb. New things I have no time for: boomerangs except silver ones occasionally just in case but they never get used really. Amulet of acrobat, no use really is it, I'm building a tank here. Some use early game when you need any edge maybe.

No more burning spellbooks, that was good shit, every now and then you'd catch something standing on one when you set it off.
Pretty sure this is new though and I do approve:



every time you score a hit it will call up a demon or three  


> Using the *obsidian axe*[3] can be more than a little irritating, but its excellent stats may make up for it. If you are wielding this broad axe and a monster is visible, you will be mesmerized and restricted from moving any farther away from the monster: "Visions of slaying the [monster] flood into your mind." If there are multiple monsters, you will fixate on the closest one. When mesmerized by the axe, you lose any current confusion and gain temporary clarity (suggesting a possible emergency use, if you lack potions of curing). Unwielding the axe dispels _all_ forms of mesmerization, even if sirens or merfolk avatars are involved[4]. Of course, you'll need to use a scroll of remove curse every time you want to remove the axe.
> 
> The mesmerization property of this weapon can potentially be very dangerous, for instance if it forces you to run headlong into a group of strong melee monsters instead of retreating into a corridor to fight them.



only used it for emergencies so far.


----------



## tommers (Jul 21, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> View attachment 223040
> 
> Early days but this is a promising run. I need to get a win on this PC's scoreboard so I'm only after three and the orb. New things I have no time for: boomerangs except silver ones occasionally just in case but they never get used really. Amulet of acrobat, no use really is it, I'm building a tank here. Some use early game when you need any edge maybe.
> 
> ...



Not seen that item before. Looks pretty good, are the demons friendly when you summon them? 

You look pretty set, got everything there. I've been trying octopodes, got started with one a couple of times but then fucked it up. Might give it another go in a bit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 21, 2020)

tommers said:


> Not seen that item before. Looks pretty good, are the demons friendly when you summon them?
> 
> You look pretty set, got everything there. I've been trying octopodes, got started with one a couple of times but then fucked it up. Might give it another go in a bit.


I died as soon as I had finished boasting basically. I'd skipped elf by mistake but that would have been fine if some cunt hadn't summoned a hell sentinel to fuck me on vault 1. Pride before a fall etc.



> are the demons friendly when you summon them?



yeah, so you have a good chance at taking out most things but theres too many potential situations where not being able to make a swift exit would be deadly.


----------



## tommers (Aug 7, 2020)

done another full rune run.  And finished a ziggurat.

Can't decide whether to grab the orb and finish it off, or do another ziggurat (they get harder every time you complete one.  NG+ innit).  The last one gave me the one moment in this run where I got slightly worried so might do it anyway, see what it's like.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 7, 2020)

this post stinks of crawl privilege

I died during a meeting again btw


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## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2020)

I had a quality run at in on weds, was annoyed not to go the distance cos everything was in tune with me, the correct gear early enough to train hard with, good mutations etc etc. But it got to one am and instead of honourably retiring for the night and carrying on tomorrow I pushed my stoned self through another disastrous half hour and died. Without a single rune. I suppose one day I'll have a proper try at what its like using a spell casting character but I want to see how many runes I can do with a proper demonspawn tank.


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## tommers (Aug 7, 2020)

Ice Elementalist. It's the best.  Frozen Ramparts and Hailstorm will see you through the mid game easily.

Get some long blades going for the ripostes.  I picked Barachi this time round.  Good skills, a hop to get out of trouble and no problems with water.  Just a bit slow.


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## tommers (Aug 8, 2020)

Did the 2nd Ziggurat,


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## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2020)

Treasure troves are always demanding pricks but I feel this is taking it to new heights:


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## tommers (Sep 23, 2020)

Haha, nice. Do it and let us know what's in there.

Maybe get a better weapon first


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## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2020)

tommers said:


> let us know what's in there.


4 rations, 133 in gold and a degeneration potion, for sure.


I was thinking on why I like this game so much, why it initially felt so familiar. I played rogue, and played the shit out of it, way before I'd seen wolfenstein or even sim city or anything early-modern. A green monochrome screen, wordstar for dos, dir/w/p thats where I first learned the arts technical. Ma was an early adopter on stuff so it must have been her 286 because I remember being impressed by the rm nimbus machines at school in comparison to our home one. Prince of fucking persia in monochrome. But that ease of transition into the game, it was hard as nails and there is tiles now but the architecture and flow of it is still the same bones.

This is why its my destiny to get a 15 rune win on this high end machine, the circle must be complete.


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## tommers (Oct 9, 2020)

Rogue is being released on steam this month.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2020)

fuckin...


I was tough as fuck there but having no resistances done me in the end. I got hoofed into abyss no less than three times on this go, my new abyss tactic is to keep heading low untill you get the rune or find an exit gate. So close to getting a win on this machine but not close enough, RIP beyonslay


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## tommers (Oct 10, 2020)

How did you not have any resistances? That's unlucky. I've got Zot before without full fire resistance but never with absolutely nothing. Amazing.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2020)

I had one ring of poison resistance but didn't use it except in snake pit. Just never came across the right set of items.
when you've got powered by death 3 you can almost guarantee survival for quite some time if you just keep hitting stuff with ranged weapons but even so this was a bit of a fluke in some ways.

after the third visit and survival in abyss though I did start to feel that the orb was mine, but it wasn't.


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## tommers (Oct 12, 2020)

started a game for the first time in ages, in trunk.  There's no food any more!


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## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2020)

And finally, first win on the new machine . A +6 amulet of slay plus boots with +2 slay. Before I grew claws I had gloves of archery which made my ranged shots +4 slay and this stacks so I was hitting with a +12 slay bonus with my slingshots/fustilabus. They were dropping like flies. Victory.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2020)

Was weird to get Torment Resistance as a mutation late game, never had that before.


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## tommers (Oct 27, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> Was weird to get Torment Resistance as a mutation late game, never had that before.



Useful though. I've tried to get octopodes up and running  but not much luck. Last one got killed by the minotaur.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2020)

tommers said:


> Useful though. I've tried to get octopodes up and running  but not much luck. Last one got killed by the minotaur.


I skip labyrinth quite often tbf, I got stuck and starved once.


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## tommers (Oct 27, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> I skip labyrinth quite often tbf, I got stuck and starved once.



It's not labyrinth any more. It's a gauntlet now. Loads better.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2020)

I started training stealth from the get go to see if I could get an edge, I've enjoyed shadow dragon scales a few times in previous runs but always too late in the game to really take advantage. This run on d3 a shop had stealthscales for 1200. I used every armour scroll to get them scales up to +10. This is new ground for me, I'm used to bellowing and crashing my way around, running into corridors, stair dancing.





Then the boots of assasin and the stealth arbalest. I didn't even need the arbalest by that point, stealth was maxed out.



Like a frozen ham.

Still died on vault five.


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## tommers (Dec 10, 2020)

Got to admire your dedication to Demonspawn Berserkers.

I got an elf to the end of Spider's Nest.  Opened a door to see loads of spiders.  Used Ozocubu's refrigeration, which blocks potion use for a while after, got stung by Tarantellas, which cause confusion.  Stumbled around unable to cure myself or cast anything.  Died.


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## tommers (Dec 19, 2020)




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## tommers (Dec 19, 2020)

3 Ziggurats that time.  Was halfway through #4 but got bored.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 19, 2020)

never won it

keep dying

keep playing this stupid fucking game


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## splonkydoo (Mar 15, 2021)

Second time ever playing through this game properly. I tried once a year back, put it aside and giving it a go again. I'm now on D10 with an octopode assassin and a rather nice little dagger.


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## splonkydoo (Mar 29, 2021)

Just picked up my fourth rune from Vaults.  Been a bit of a mad ride to get here, very very many hairy moments when I was sure I was done for, but magically made it out of! It's a tough life being a squishy octopode assassin, but early on I got a +6 dagger of Gehuteoz (drain, magic resistance+ and stealth+) which set me up. My early strategy was mercilessly wearing down foes with darts and javelins etc, then they'd get close enough to constrict (up to 8 at once I think) and boom - stab stab stab and the mightiest of creatures would lose all power with the draining effects of my little dagger. Have to always be careful about not getting swamped though, if that's the case then it's either lights out or tele time. Chebriados is really good for this too... step out of time is a godsend, and the slouch aint half bad either. Being so slow, you do have to carefully plan your attacks though - but for the huge boost in stats it's well worth it.

For the runes I cleared out Shoals, which felt like the first big challenge. Went back after clearing a few levels and then did Snake pit. Got cocky and tried doing all of Elven Halls, ran in to a big surprise at Hall 3 - another few hits and was almost dead, my tele scroll was in the works but taking -forever- ...then boom... suddenly, I was banished to the Abyss. This turned out to be a blessing I knew I was on for the third rune. Everything was tense though, no hiding in single lane tunnels there, and all these dodgy monsters flying about. I passed by a few exits which later I was cursing myself for ... just needed to get out, was being hemmed in everywhere and was waiting for the right ambush to knock me out of the game. Finally then, after an age had passed another exit opened up in this desert of the abyss... but wait...what is that beside it? Is this the rune? Game on... heavily guarded with a lot of unknowns (and these dodgy death stars with 1hp that halve your health if you vanquish them..) so had to go in there with all I had... box of beasts, summoning scrolls, all the wands ... i did a bit of damage, got to the rune but it was a bloody dummy, the real one was deeper in and it was coming to no good .... had to take the risk of stepping out of time. They don't always clear off, thankfully it did work, and I dispatched the remaining few that hung on. Got the fuck out of there then soon as a door opened up, which thank fuck was only a short trip away.

Think i'm ready to clear out for first floor in the realm of zot - i sneaked down there earlier for a look but it seemed well dodgy, was a sentinels mark on me straight away. Same thing might happen again, i'll have to be tactful. I do have a really good shield of reflection now too, which helps a lot alongside being so evasive. I'd considered going in for one level of the Ziggurat but it seems too dodgy and not built for my character.... could easily get crowded. Any other places I should go? Think i'm gonna avoid the Slime Pit at all costs...... is Pandemonium any use?


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## tommers (Mar 29, 2021)

Ziggurats are easy for the first few levels but get progressively harder and you can get anything turn up - the hardest ones are always levels with ghosts of dead players. 

Pandemonium is like the Abyss in that once you're in you can't always get out but levels are self-contained and you don't have constantly spawning enemies. You do get lots of demons though, and Pan Lords. 

Hell is quite cool, maybe give that a go, you can always run away. Crypt will also be fine for you I would think but don't go to Tomb. 

Basically at this stage you need to worry about Torment and hellfire. Things like Tormentors, Fiends and those pink demon things are all dangerous. Have you completed a run before? Might be worth doing that before messing about. I found it essentially impossible to do the end game without some form of Torment resistance (RN can give you a little bit, or there is a demonspawn mutation but mainly it's either being undead or using Necromutation). 

I still don't know where you and Dot get that interface from. You're really close to doing it, just watch out for the orbs of fire


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## tommers (Mar 29, 2021)

Oh you can run through slime pit BTW, just have RCorr and have a plan for the Royal Jelly.

What spells have you got?


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## splonkydoo (Mar 30, 2021)

tommers said:


> Ziggurats are easy for the first few levels but get progressively harder and you can get anything turn up - the hardest ones are always levels with ghosts of dead players.
> 
> Pandemonium is like the Abyss in that once you're in you can't always get out but levels are self-contained and you don't have constantly spawning enemies. You do get lots of demons though, and Pan Lords.
> 
> ...




I've been putting up ok so far with the Torment... it is damn annoying... but i can see it definitely tipping the balance the wrong way with enough numbers. Oh i've already done Crypt, that was easy. 
Around the 1/2 way  - 3/4 part of my game I started training up my spells.... i just knew for a game this complex that they were needed somewhere, but up until then hadn't used them, and even know have only used them the odd time. Really hard to tell with all the different schools but I went for hex + transmutation. Spells I have right now are: cause fear, dragonform, ensorcelled hibernation, gell's gravitas, and irradiation.  There are so many spells it is really hard to figure out which are the most useful ones... I still have space to learn new ones too.

What do you mean by completing the run? By finishing the whole game y'mean? Nope... this is furthest i've got so far - think im in a strong place but dont want to be too cocky either with it after all these hours of game play!


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## tommers (Apr 5, 2021)

You finished it yet splonkydoo?


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 5, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> never won it
> 
> keep dying
> 
> keep playing this stupid fucking game


I was going to post something but I see I have already said what I was going to say.


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## tommers (Apr 26, 2021)

Am exclusively playing this as the Orc Messiah now. Leading my merry band to cleanse the apostates.


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## tommers (May 1, 2021)

Me and the lads getting out with the Orb


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## FridgeMagnet (May 2, 2021)

I do actually like having companions in Crawl. It gets very lonely down in the dungeon. I often play Hep just so that there's always someone else around.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 26, 2021)

first win in 8 months by my reckoning.


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## tommers (Nov 26, 2021)

You certainly have a type.


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## splonkydoo (Nov 26, 2021)

Nice  

Am currently on a level 19 Formicide Conjurer of Gozag. Two runes down, and about to storm the royal jelly for the third. First time down there and fuck me ive been torn sideways from malmutations (Str - 4, Dex+Int - 2). Gonna have to quaff the shit out of a potion and see what happens, but I have some lovely other mutations


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## DotCommunist (Nov 27, 2021)

For some reason the orb run didn't throw pandemonium lords at me but lots of holy monsters, including a Seraph. All fell before me obvs. Final mutation was'Hurl Damnation' both massively useful and maybe why the angel themed orb run happened.


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## tommers (Dec 14, 2021)




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## DotCommunist (Jul 7, 2022)

All hail Gruffnutz.


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## tommers (Jul 7, 2022)

Nice. Do you never get bored of Demonspawn Berserkers though? I mean they're good cos of the variety of mutations but you never even have a different god (it's always trog innit).


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## tommers (Jul 7, 2022)

No magic at all is missing half the game


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## DotCommunist (Jul 7, 2022)

tommers said:


> Nice. Do you never get bored of Demonspawn Berserkers though? I mean they're good cos of the variety of mutations but you never even have a different god (it's always trog innit).


Sometimes I play naga berzerker for variety lol. Got one to zot 5. I've tried magic backgrounds a few times before but never had the patience really. I like being able to go full slaine.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 7, 2022)

I read in versions later than my one they've restricted all berzerkers to only be able to wield weapons with fire or ice brands. Thematically it fits but fuck that. I want all the arcane wargear, electric brand on a sling is murderous.


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## tommers (Jul 7, 2022)

DotCommunist said:


> I read in versions later than my one they've restricted all berzerkers to only be able to wield weapons with fire or ice brands. Thematically it fits but fuck that. I want all the arcane wargear, electric brand on a sling is murderous.


Oh I haven't seen that but I've only played a few times recently and not Berserkers.


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## tommers (Oct 28, 2022)

Tee hee.  Banished herself to the Abyss.


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## tommers (Oct 30, 2022)

I've been trying to win with a Djinn for the past few months (you learn random spells every couple of levels and can't read books, and you don't have MP, you use HP to cast).  It's taken 45 goes but....





Finally got some decent spells - Infestation, Ignition and got Wyrmbane off a naga in the snake pit.  The Warlock's Mirror was in a shop in Orc Mines.  Best shield in the game.


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