# Two Stabbed on Stoke Newington High Street



## GarfieldLeChat (May 18, 2008)

opposite the station. 

Roads all blocked off at the moment from the cematary to the morrisons the station is open but only on to the Casnove road end/cut through.

Police are stating it's happened around the station and down on to manor road. so that's quite a big area closed off.

no buese are running past church street or past stamford hill in either direction.

the polcie are obviously quite worried as they are being shitty aggressive and arsey with everyone and preventing access to homes shouting at people being very confrontational.  They seem much more jumpy than last time...

nothign on bbc or other news sources as yet.


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## rover07 (May 18, 2008)

Looks like the Police bunting will be up again... lovely.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 18, 2008)

they have closed off a load of roads the road by the bird cage the high street manor road and all the side roads it's a fooking nightmare trying to get into central stokey atm...


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 18, 2008)

oh heck. and all on the day when butterfield green fair passed off all nice and peaceful as well.


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## maomao (May 18, 2008)

Is the 149 still running does anyone know? Gotta go to Edmonton later.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 18, 2008)

maomao said:


> Is the 149 still running does anyone know? Gotta go to Edmonton later.



from stamford hill onwards and to the stop before the station stop opposite itto.  there's a walk in between.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 18, 2008)

you could always get on the free train at stoke and get off at stamford hill one stop up to get round easier i guess...


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## Badger Kitten (May 18, 2008)

there were stabbings on Friday and Sat too.
 It's a turf war gang thing gone out of control

so someone who is flat-sharing with a copper at Stoke N cop shop tells me.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 18, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> there were stabbings on Friday and Sat too.
> It's a turf war gang thing gone out of control
> 
> so someone who is flat-sharing with a copper at Stoke N cop shop tells me.



why the coppers are getting less and less comunity orintated round here if they want to get info or evidence the last thing you want is bullsh overly aggressive piggies who have lost what little respect stokie coppers get any ways... 

it's going to slide back to the bad old days all over again if they don't sort their arses out stokey cop shop is a fucking joke their customer serivce skills these days are worse than usless... 


looks to the left and  right and awaits flaming from our usual MET poster boy flag waver...


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 18, 2008)

s'all clear by 11.00 tonight.


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## KeyboardJockey (May 19, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> why the coppers are getting less and less comunity orintated round here if they want to get info or evidence the last thing you want is bullsh overly aggressive piggies who have lost what little respect stokie coppers get any ways... ...



Thats one of the main  problems as I see it.  If the police want a info they have to act well to the  locals but there is also a need for these people to be caught very quickly.  A big problem for the police who are told on the one hand do the community police bit and gather intelligence over the long term with the aim of banging up the perpetrators of these crimes and on the other hand getting pressure to go in hard from elsewhere.  

Its not an easy situation which ever way you look at it.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 20, 2008)

KeyboardJockey said:


> Thats one of the main  problems as I see it.  If the police want a info they have to act well to the  locals but there is also a need for these people to be caught very quickly.  A big problem for the police who are told on the one hand do the community police bit and gather intelligence over the long term with the aim of banging up the perpetrators of these crimes and on the other hand getting pressure to go in hard from elsewhere.
> 
> Its not an easy situation which ever way you look at it.



easy or not they are still public servants and should remember that particlarlly when dealing with these issues. the WPC who started bawling out a motorist who asked if they could drive to their house outside of the cordon but past where she was wrongly directing traffic into a one way system which came out past it being a good example or the younger lad near casonove road who told a group of youths to shut up and piss off when they were asking why people were allowed to walk down one side of the street but why they particularlly couldn't walk up it are two very poor examples of the continued shower which stokie has been presented by the MET.

It's not as though there hasn't always been a repuation from Stokie nick either... 

it's odd though that there's a compleate lack of news on this incident though nothing on the bbc i can find even the hackney gazette is quite and usually it's not one to keep quite about these things... 

all very odd.

a double stabbing would surely still make it into the news as every other one in recent times has ...


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## Treacle Toes (May 20, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> a double stabbing would surely still make it into the news as every other one in recent times has ...



Yet a police haul of 16 weapons and the arrest of 24 youths has made the news.....source

I think it's more about showing our new mayor has begun to hang 'street tough'.


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## detective-boy (May 21, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> ... and preventing access to homes


If it's a crime scene you ain't going in.  End of, whether or not you live there.  (No excuse for being arsey about it though, even if it does become a bit tiresome explaining why for the 2,136th time ...)

A crime scene may include routes in and out for suspects / victim and in the early stages of a response it is pretty common ractice to close as wide an area as possible until more facts are known for sure, after which things can be opened up if not needed.  It's also usually the case that individual officers on individual cordons know very little about the bigger picture and so cannot provide many answers even if they wanted to - all they know is they've been told to stop anyone going that way until they are told otherwise.


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## tbaldwin (May 22, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> oh heck. and all on the day when butterfield green fair passed off all nice and peaceful as well.



Same streets,different worlds.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 23, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> If it's a crime scene you ain't going in.  End of, whether or not you live there.  (No excuse for being arsey about it though, even if it does become a bit tiresome explaining why for the 2,136th time ...)
> 
> A crime scene may include routes in and out for suspects / victim and in the early stages of a response it is pretty common ractice to close as wide an area as possible until more facts are known for sure, after which things can be opened up if not needed.  It's also usually the case that individual officers on individual cordons know very little about the bigger picture and so cannot provide many answers even if they wanted to - all they know is they've been told to stop anyone going that way until they are told otherwise.


I'm not so much disputing the reasons which are farly obviousl but the attitude of the officers involved who aren't forstering good community releations (again) with the locals...

I get the impression tbh that stokie nick and it's officers have all but given up on the area and would like if it no one bothered them again, so they never had to leave the station ever.... 

as it is there's still nothing in the news not even in the notirously right wing Gazettee...

tory media managment perhaps....


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I get the impression tbh that stokie nick and it's officers have all but given up on the area and would like if it no one bothered them again, so they never had to leave the station ever....
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 23, 2008)

tbaldwin said:


> I know its all very well for the nice white incomers shopping at fresh and wild but for a lot of people who live there *the streets of stoke newington are paved with blood*....


What's your name, Enoch Powell?


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## maximilian ping (May 23, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> there were stabbings on Friday and Sat too.
> It's a turf war gang thing gone out of control
> 
> so someone who is flat-sharing with a copper at Stoke N cop shop tells me.



is it turks and kurds?


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> What's your name, Enoch Powell?



Is that supposed to be a funny?

While people like you laugh there are going to be a lot more teenagers murdered in London..


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 23, 2008)

tbaldwin said:


> Is that supposed to be a funny?
> 
> While people like you laugh there are going to be a lot more teenagers murdered in London..


Are you supposed to be serious?

Whose 'people like me' then balders?


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> Are you supposed to be serious?
> 
> Whose 'people like me' then balders?



People who call other people Enoch Powell if they say something they dont like.


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 23, 2008)

tbaldwin said:


> People who call other people Enoch Powell if they say something they dont like.


You were the one who started talking about streets paved with blood, old bean. And a certain Mr Powell made a very similar speech a few years ago warning of rivers of blood. Do try to keep up.


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> You were the one who started talking about streets paved with blood, old bean. And a certain Mr Powell made a very similar speech a few years ago warning of rivers of blood. Do try to keep up.



True he did. And i suppose he got some things right for the wrong reasons and somethings wrong for the right reasons.
What cant be denied is that Stoke Newington is very much a place divided by race and class.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 23, 2008)

tbaldwin;7534917][QUOTE=GarfieldLeChat said:


> I get the impression tbh that stokie nick and it's officers have all but given up on the area and would like if it no one bothered them again, so they never had to leave the station ever....



Given that the area has huge problems that they have to deal with. I wouldnt be suprised.
I know its all very well for the nice white incomers shopping at fresh and wild but for a lot of people who live there the streets of stoke newington are paved with blood....[/QUOTE]
oh give over we have always had a certain level of problems here but that's merely sensationalist claptrap.  Our biggest problem in the last few years has been the essesive use of police force couplled with being in a labour consituancy which has been robbing us blind and selling off the play areas parks and school playgrounds or playing fields to developers and that hackney counicl has not one care for youth provision whislt coming up with hair brained schemes to fleece the electorate out of more tax to pay contractors who did't do the job well in the first place...

we have has some social problems on the estates but largely due to underinvestment and cos the local kids have fuck all to do.  This is a hackney wide problem you only have to look at the swimming pool or oceans developements to see how bad things are in terms of council in competance.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 23, 2008)

tbaldwin said:


> True he did. And i suppose he got some things right for the wrong reasons and somethings wrong for the right reasons.
> What cant be denied is that Stoke Newington is very much a place divided by race and class.



you are talking out of your arse...

chuch street is neither the begining nor the end of stoke newing ton and indeed in comparitive terms it's an anomoly which isn't typical of the rest of the area.

we have had house prices go up and therefore more wealthy people move in but you are talkign like it's a wholesale destruction of the local area where as in actuallity house prices have only kept pace with the rest of the country...


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 23, 2008)

maximilian ping said:


> is it turks and kurds?



no why does everyone assume this is the case.

the kurds who live here and the turks who live here mainly get on.... they both dispise the turkish government and what's happening at home...


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> oh give over we have always had a certain level of problems here but that's merely sensationalist claptrap.  Our biggest problem in the last few years has been the essesive use of police force .



The Ostritch Position.


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no why does everyone assume this is the case.
> 
> the kurds who live here and the turks who live here mainly get on.... they both dispise the turkish government and what's happening at home...



I wonder how many Turks and Kurds you know?

You do know they had to close down a secondary school partly due to the problems between turkish and kurdish gangs dont you?


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you are talking out of your arse...
> 
> chuch street is neither the begining nor the end of stoke newing ton and indeed in comparitive terms it's an anomoly which isn't typical of the rest of the area.
> 
> we have had house prices go up and therefore more wealthy people move in but you are talkign like it's a wholesale destruction of the local area where as in actuallity house prices have only kept pace with the rest of the country...



Have a look at House prices in some of the other roads and compare how they have risen in the last 20 years....And then you can tell me who is talking out of their arse.


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 23, 2008)

tbaldwin said:


> True he did. And i suppose he got some things right for the wrong reasons and somethings wrong for the right reasons.
> What cant be denied is that Stoke Newington is very much a place divided by race and class.


Care to expand on that insightful piece of analysis?





tbaldwin said:


> I wonder how many Turks and Kurds you know?
> 
> You do know they had to close down a secondary school partly due to the problems between turkish and kurdish gangs dont you?


No, which secondary school would that be then?


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> Care to expand on that insightful piece of analysis?No, which secondary school would that be then?



1 I could but it would take a while and to be honest i still dont think youlld really get it.
2 Kingsland.


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 23, 2008)

tbaldwin said:


> 1 I could but it would take a while and to be honest i still dont think youlld really get it.
> 2 Kingsland.


1. you'd be surprised, you really would so come on, out with it.
2. Kingsland school, strictly speaking, is in Dalston. Notwithstanding any geographical nonsense, the reasons it was shut down include chronic underinvestment, poor management and the Learning Trust being determined not to let it stay open, despite a new head teacher getting it taking off special measures just weeks before closure was confirmed.


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

OK Paulie. I think that EP was an Old School Tory....Racist to some degree but probably not much more than most people...And probably in some ways a lot less....
I think that mass immigration has created many problems for everybody....Some of the White and not so white Incomers to Hackney and Lambeth may love the cosmopolitan wank.....But for a lot of people who grew up in those areas white and not so white they see the areas as hell holes....
I think if you are going to have mass immigration,integration is key myself...Without it especially in poorer areas you are just pouring petrol on the fires.....
There are rivers of blood in our inner cities and though it really might not much bother the middle class scum who write in the mail and guardian it bothers some of us quite a lot.


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 23, 2008)

tbaldwin said:


> OK Paulie. I think that EP was an Old School Tory....Racist to some degree but probably not much more than most people...And probably in some ways a lot less....
> I think that mass immigration has created many problems for everybody....Some of the White and not so white Incomers to Hackney and Lambeth may love the cosmopolitan wank.....But for a lot of people who grew up in those areas white and not so white they see the areas as hell holes....
> I think if you are going to have mass immigration,integration is key myself...Without it especially in poorer areas you are just pouring petrol on the fires.....
> There are rivers of blood in our inner cities and though it really might not much bother the middle class scum who write in the mail and guardian it bothers some of us quite a lot.


I find it difficult to think of a more racially harmonious borough in many ways than Hackney. Yet, it is very poor indeed. So where is this petrol then? Btw, i've lived and worked in the borough for 20 years now.

I would say a larger problem for the people of Hackney currently is rampant redevelopment as the result of imminent tube station, aligned to proximity to the City, which means they're being shunted out, either directly through housing transfer or indirectly through being unable to afford to stay there any longer.

And i must have missed your response about Kingsland school being shut due to racial tensions?


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> And i must have missed your response about Kingsland school being shut due to racial tensions?



I didnt say it had been closed due to racial tensions. I said PART of the reason it closed was due to gang problems....Which for the last few years at least were largely turkish/kurdish gangs...


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## tbaldwin (May 23, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> I find it difficult to think of a more racially harmonious borough in many ways than Hackney. Yet, it is very poor indeed. So where is this petrol then? Btw, i've lived and worked in the borough for 20 years now.


 Some of the Middle Class White Incomers moved in a long time before that. But still struggle to understand the other side of Hackney....

What exactly do you mean by racially harmonious?


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## durruti02 (May 23, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> I find it difficult to think of a more racially harmonious borough in many ways than Hackney.



well there is no race against race violence that i see .. but beyond that - 

there is pretty well no mixing either, particularly amongst the middle class white immigrants. Church Street and it's pubs are pretty well 'No Blacks' ( and i know a particulalr chain of sofa'd stokey pubs where the landlord asks djs not to play music that would attract black ( read also w/c ) people ) 

and newer kurdish turkish and african commnities are, at this stage, keeping themselves to themselves. 

and imho this de facto segregation has got a lot worse over the past 20 years, and that seems to be due to the increasing middle class population, newer immigrant communities and white flight.


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## goldenecitrone (May 23, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> and imho this de facto segregation has got a lot worse over the past 20 years, and that seems to be due to the increasing middle class population, newer immigrant communities and white flight.



Segregation? What bollocks.


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## ajdown (May 23, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> and imho this de facto segregation has got a lot worse over the past 20 years, and that seems to be due to the increasing middle class population, newer immigrant communities and white flight.



I think you'll actually find it's the immigrant communities getting together with their fellow countrymen, and refusing to integrate with the existing society in the area that they have chosen to move in to.

Refusal to learn English, opening their own shops, pubs and whatever, and pretty much keeping themselves to themselves instead of enhancing whatever is already there.

Segregation by their choice, not because 'horrible old whitey' is putting them down in any way, shape or form.


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## goldenecitrone (May 24, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Refusal to learn English, opening their own shops, pubs and whatever, and pretty much keeping themselves to themselves instead of enhancing whatever is already there.



And even more bullshit. Refusal to learn English? So you reckon people are deliberately trying not to learn the language. How many languages can you speak then? None probably, otherwise you'd realise just how difficult language learning is.
People are tribal and stick with their own. My two best mates are the people I met at university 20 years ago. Multi culturalism is about different cultures living side by side. I'm not sure exactly what 'integration' means. But I've seen loads of immigrants reading the Sun. And not enhancing the area? What do you want them to do exactly to enhance the area? Recreate the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. So much ignorance on this thread it's untrue.


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## ajdown (May 24, 2008)

goldenecitrone said:


> And even more bullshit. Refusal to learn English? So you reckon people are deliberately trying not to learn the language. How many languages can you speak then? None probably, otherwise you'd realise just how difficult language learning is.
> People are tribal and stick with their own. My two best mates are the people I met at university 20 years ago. Multi culturalism is about different cultures living side by side. I'm not sure exactly what 'integration' means. But I've seen loads of immigrants reading the Sun. And not enhancing the area? What do you want them to do exactly to enhance the area? Recreate the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. So much ignorance on this thread it's untrue.



I speak English, because I live in England.  It's our official language.  If I was to permanently relocate to .. well pretty much any other country in the world that doesn't have English as its primary language, you'd have to learn at least enough of the language to get by.  Would any other country put up in roadsigns in its native language and English to help those who have moved there?  Of course not.  We bend over backwards not only to accommodate other cultures (which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing) but at the expense of our own.  Funds are wasted providing services that could be far better used for everyone's benefit rather than just a specific language group.

How many hundreds of millions of pounds are spent annually on translation services in pretty much every avenue of modern life, to accommodate those who have come to this country and, even after 10 years here, don't speak enough English to be able to hold a basic conversation?


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 24, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> well there is no race against race violence that i see .. but beyond that -
> 
> there is pretty well no mixing either, particularly amongst the middle class white immigrants. Church Street and it's pubs are pretty well 'No Blacks' ( and i know a particulalr chain of sofa'd stokey pubs where the landlord asks djs not to play music that would attract black ( read also w/c ) people )
> 
> ...


here we go again with the standard bollocks church street v's the rest of stokie shite all over again ... funny how last weekend at butterfields road there didn't seem to be too much racial tension for what was in essenece a village fete, no doubt next weekend these same old faces will be revelling with the rest of them at stoke fest before not giving stokie another thought for year ....


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 24, 2008)

ajdown said:


> How many hundreds of millions of pounds are spent annually on translation services in pretty much every avenue of modern life, to accommodate those who have come to this country and, even after 10 years here, don't speak enough English to be able to hold a basic conversation?



less than was spent on keeping a swimming pool unfit for purpose closed for the last 4 years...

and sadly more than they've spent on school maintanence or building in the last 10 years...  we are still busing some 5000, to 8,000 children out of the area every day to neigbouroing boroughs due to lack of school places...

less than has been spent on medical provision being one of the few bourghs where you need to force yourself on to a doctors waiting list.... 

with such in vestment it's a wonder that newer commmunititees decide to organise for themselves...

isn't that what you anarkids want any way?  self organiseation?


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## ajdown (May 24, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> isn't that what you anarkids want any way?  self organiseation?



Who said I was an anarchist?  I think you must have me confused with someone else.


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## durruti02 (May 24, 2008)

goldenecitrone said:


> Segregation? What bollocks.


 so how many black/BME people in The Prince? The Lion? The Fox Reformed? the Landsborough and all the other snidey middle class tosser pubs? and how many black/BME people own homes on those deleightfull streets north and south of Church Street? How many black/BME faces in Fresh and Wild or The Spence, wanker places that they are? And how many of the recent victims of shootings and stabbings have been these white middle classes?? none .. it is two segregated worlds 

p.s. i said de facto segregation .. not straight segregation


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## ajdown (May 24, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> so how many black/BME people in The Prince? The Lion? The Fox Reformed? the Landsborough and all the other snidey middle class tosser pubs? and how many black/BME people own homes on those deleightfull streets north and south of Church Street? How many black/BME faces in Fresh and Wild or The Spence, wanker places that they are? And how many of the recent victims of shootings and stabbings have been these white middle classes?? none .. it is two segregated worlds
> 
> p.s. i said de facto segregation .. not straight segregation



I wouldn't be at all surprised if you found other "BME", as you put it, pubs and streets in the area where you don't see any white faces (unless they're completely lost).

Prime examples, I would say, of communities 'keeping themselves to themselves', rather than nasty ol' whitey keeping them out of 'their areas'.

Few weeks ago, we went to East Street market.  Bursting for a piss, we decided to hop into a pub we saw for a quick drink and use the loo.  It was an Irish pub, and I have not felt so uncomfortable - or drunk a pint so quickly - for a long, long time.


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 24, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Few weeks ago, we went to East Street market.  Bursting for a piss, we decided to hop into a pub we saw for a quick drink and use the loo.  It was an Irish pub, and I have not felt so uncomfortable - or drunk a pint so quickly - for a long, long time.


That says so much more about you than it does about any thing else at all.

Tbf, i haven't the time or the inclination to argue with the utter wank being posted on this thread.

Whether it's your utter straw men, durutti's view of stoke newington starting and ending at church st or baldwin's complete and consistent inconsistent meanderings.


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## ajdown (May 24, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> That says so much more about you than it does about any thing else at all.



... and you say that because?


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 24, 2008)

ajdown said:


> ... and you say that because?


Because you come out with utter shit such as:






			
				ajdown said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be at all surprised if you found other "BME", as you put it, pubs and streets in the area where you don't see any white faces (unless they're completely lost).


if you can show me just one street in the whole borough of hackney that's divided on those grounds, i'll give you a oncer. serious, send me your address and i'll hand deliver the fucker.

you utter fucking twat.


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## Giles (May 24, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> so how many black/BME people in The Prince? The Lion? The Fox Reformed? the Landsborough and all the other snidey middle class tosser pubs? and how many black/BME people own homes on those deleightfull streets north and south of Church Street? How many black/BME faces in Fresh and Wild or The Spence, wanker places that they are? And how many of the recent victims of shootings and stabbings have been these white middle classes?? none .. it is two segregated worlds
> 
> p.s. i said de facto segregation .. not straight segregation



Is it the fault of the "snidey middle class tossers" they can manage to go about their daily lives without stabbing and shooting each other?

Or that "BME" people don't want to go to the same pubs as they do? Or don't like the same music?

Hardly....

Giles..


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## ajdown (May 24, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> Because you come out with utter shit such as:if you can show me just one street in the whole borough of hackney that's divided on those grounds, i'll give you a oncer. serious, send me your address and i'll hand deliver the fucker.
> 
> you utter fucking twat.



I suggest you go away and learn how to communicate without being offensive.  There's no need to talk like that.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 25, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Who said I was an anarchist?  I think you must have me confused with someone else.



well it's you utterly unrealistic non world flights of fanstasy about how the world is compared to how it really works that did it...

i mean it's entirely obvious that your utterly delulled as to how life works and seem to think you have the solutions to the problems whilst in reality only expanding the ever growing pool of ignornace...


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 25, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I suggest you go away and learn how to communicate without being offensive.  There's no need to talk like that.



so do you son... 

perhaps if you ceased saying offensive things people would cease being offensive to you in their reaction.  these things aren't mutually exclusive you know...


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## ajdown (May 25, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> perhaps if you ceased saying offensive things people would cease being offensive to you in their reaction.  these things aren't mutually exclusive you know...



They aren't offensive views, they just happen to be different from yours.  Big, big difference.

It's also possible to reply without strings of profanity.  When all people can do is swear and throw personal insults as a response, it shows they've run out of intelligent responses.

Assuming, of course, they had any in the first place.


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## Blagsta (May 25, 2008)

Actually, your borderline racist views _are_ offensive to some people.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 25, 2008)

ajdown said:


> They aren't offensive views, they just happen to be different from yours.  Big, big difference.
> 
> It's also possible to reply without strings of profanity.  When all people can do is swear and throw personal insults as a response, it shows they've run out of intelligent responses.
> 
> Assuming, of course, they had any in the first place.



i tend to fidn that peopel who obsess over the venacular rather than the point of the conversation tend to be short sighted and incapable of logical discussion because their dogmatic belief system be it religion or secular morals predetermines their viewpoint.

swearing is bad/wrong/imorral so the point being made is invaild becuase it to is bad/wrong/immoral.

it's this flawed logic which makes fundemenalists of all flavours impossible to deal with...

there's no such thing as swear words unless you also support a class system.  swear words or vulgar language was derivied from the class seperation which had those in the upper classes seeking to dissaccocated themselves from other classes by attempts to control words in common venacular.  This comes from the overtly xtain base of swear words, citing the though shall not swear from the bible to give siginifcant dogmatic gravitas to the subject. 

however it's a direct misquote and a misinterpreatation of the idea of swearing: I swear on the grave of my father, by my eyes etc. not sexually refferenceable or suggestable wordings.  

ergo any one who attempts to prevent the use of common vencaular when in discussion is attempting to introduce a class dynamic to the disscussion by way of supressing dessenting viewpoints to their own. 

i reject wholley your notions of class based prejudices and state clearly this isn't an acceptable line of deabte. period. 

those who wish to express themselves do so on their level not on your subjgated demanded or even wished level.  

as any adult knows you cannot dictate the terms of one persons social interaction with you any more than you can limit what they say.  Adults tend to let that which they find minor to wash over them as letting things which are not really important slide is frankly also an exculsive of adult conversation.

common venacular is in this catigory.....

every time.

as for the acutal viewpoint epspouse if you can think of something ore offensive to humanities longeigty than bringin and unloved unwanted uneeded and potentially short lived person into the world whilst at the same time denying the rights of the one section of our society who are able to give life force to humanity as though it were a descion of property or ownership is someone far to unevolved to be allowed to maintain their stance without challenge.

that's offensive.  you would summarly hold women hostage and force them to submit to your will in order to allow your beliefs to proper...

take a long hard look in the mirror, then you will be eye to eye with the subject of that which causes you greatest offense and ironically that which causes the greatest offence to your larger sperices....

pro lifers are always unevolved mentally, emotionally, physically and should for the sake of all humanity be wiped permently off the face of the world for praciticing their control fantasies out on others...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 25, 2008)

also if it were 2 pro lifers stabbing in stokie there'd be a party... i'd be holding it...


----------



## detective-boy (May 25, 2008)

ajdown said:


> When all people can do is swear and throw personal insults as a response, it shows they've run out of intelligent responses.


Not always.  Sometimes it's means they have just had enough of trying to reason with fuckwits who flatly refuse anything which does not accord with their own prejudice/stereotype/delusion of choice ...


----------



## Gixxer1000 (May 25, 2008)

Blagsta said:


> Actually, your borderline racist views _are_ offensive to some people.



Seems to be ok to be anti white on here though


----------



## Blagsta (May 25, 2008)

Gixxer1000 said:


> Seems to be ok to be anti white on here though



Where's that then?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2008)

Gixxer1000 said:


> Seems to be ok to be anti white on here though




Where the fuck are you lot coming from?

Racially prejudiced views of any kind get short shrift 'on here'.


----------



## ajdown (May 25, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> Not always.  Sometimes it's means they have just had enough of trying to reason with fuckwits who flatly refuse anything which does not accord with their own prejudice/stereotype/delusion of choice ...



When I get to that point, I just walk away for a few hours, let them get it out of their system, then return to see if normality has returned - or give the thread up as a lost cause.


----------



## Blagsta (May 25, 2008)

ajdown said:


> When I get to that point, I just walk away for a few hours, let them get it out of their system, then return to see if normality has returned - or give the thread up as a lost cause.



Maybe you should stick around - you might learn something.


----------



## ajdown (May 25, 2008)

Blagsta said:


> Maybe you should stick around - you might learn something.



There are some interesting things around here, from circles I don't mix in ... but in many cases, it does actually make me glad that I don't mix in those circles.

I don't think you're a bad lot round here - just have different views and opinions, or lifestyles, to my own.  Doesn't make either of us automatically  right or wrong in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## detective-boy (May 25, 2008)

ajdown said:


> When I get to that point, I just walk away for a few hours, let them get it out of their system, then return to see if normality has returned - or give the thread up as a lost cause.


Each to their own ... I find throwing a few fucks into them more therapeutic!   (But it upsets the mods ...  )


----------



## frogwoman (May 25, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I speak English, because I live in England.  It's our official language.  If I was to permanently relocate to .. well pretty much any other country in the world that doesn't have English as its primary language, you'd have to learn at least enough of the language to get by.  *Would any other country put up in roadsigns in its native language and English to help those who have moved there? * Of course not.  We bend over backwards not only to accommodate other cultures (which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing) but at the expense of our own.  Funds are wasted providing services that could be far better used for everyone's benefit rather than just a specific language group.



Umm, France?


----------



## ajdown (May 25, 2008)

frogwoman said:


> Umm, France?



I thought there was a campaign in France to remove 'English' words like email from common usage?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I thought there was a campaign in France to remove 'English' words like email from common usage?



Thats a totaly different thing, and its not a 'campaign' its an established body  concerned with the preservation of french language. Personaly I see that as a bit silly because languages are there to be used and they evolve naturaly, but thats for a different thread.


----------



## frogwoman (May 25, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I thought there was a campaign in France to remove 'English' words like email from common usage?



Yeah it's a board to preserve the language from evil English influence. Nbody really pays much attention to it though its a bit of a joke but as said a subject  for another thread


----------



## durruti02 (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I wouldn't be at all surprised if you found other "BME", as you put it, pubs and streets in the area where you don't see any white faces (unless they're completely lost).
> 
> Prime examples, I would say, of communities 'keeping themselves to themselves', rather than nasty ol' whitey keeping them out of 'their areas'.
> 
> Few weeks ago, we went to East Street market.  Bursting for a piss, we decided to hop into a pub we saw for a quick drink and use the loo.  It was an Irish pub, and I have not felt so uncomfortable - or drunk a pint so quickly - for a long, long time.



how peculiar!! not sure i have EVER felt uncomfortable in an irish pub!! ( and ive drunk in a few! ) is that possible??? though was a bit wierd watching celtic win the league the other day with the next table full of pilled up body builders with a smattering of hun tattoos .. they sensibly left at half time!


----------



## durruti02 (May 27, 2008)

Giles said:


> Is it the fault of the "snidey middle class tossers" they can manage to go about their daily lives without stabbing and shooting each other?
> 
> Or that "BME" people don't want to go to the same pubs as they do? Or don't like the same music?
> 
> ...


LOL .. middle class twats do not NEED to be in gangs and end up stabbing and shooting each other .. they are all in their own gangs of overpaid inherited wealth tossers .. 

"BME" people don't want to go to the same pubs as they do? Or don't like the same music?" ...  vive la segregation! its what the people want! LOL you as bad as fucking griffin ..  people like you should be forced to give up everything and live in a shitty council/private/temp flat for the rest of your life


----------



## durruti02 (May 27, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> That says so much more about you than it does about any thing else at all.
> 
> Tbf, i haven't the time or the inclination to argue with the utter wank being posted on this thread.
> 
> Whether it's your utter straw men, durutti's view of stoke newington starting and ending at church st or baldwin's complete and consistent inconsistent meanderings.



paulie .. do you like church street?


----------



## Giles (May 27, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> LOL .. middle class twats do not NEED to be in gangs and end up stabbing and shooting each other .. they are all in their own gangs of overpaid inherited wealth tossers ..
> 
> "BME" people don't want to go to the same pubs as they do? Or don't like the same music?" ...  vive la segregation! its what the people want! LOL you as bad as fucking griffin ..  people like you should be forced to give up everything and live in a shitty council/private/temp flat for the rest of your life



Middle class people do not "need" to stab and shoot each other? 

Surely no-one NEEDS to stab and shoot anyone?!

And people have different musical tastes and like different kinds of entertainment. Are you suggesting that people be forced to attend the same bars / clubs etc, in order to ensure social mixing, or what?

Giles..


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 27, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> paulie .. do you like church street?



no one has any feeling about it it's as much a part of stokie as any other bit except it's cuturally entirely different from the surrounding area...


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 27, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> *"BME" people don't want to go to the same pubs as they do? Or don't like the same music?" *...  vive la segregation!



So no BME go to the same pubs as White People?
No BME are middle class?
All BME are in gangs that go around stabbing and shooting eachother?

BME and non-BME don't listen to the same music? Are you quite sure?





> its what the people want!


Yes, correct and *most* BME don't want to be in gangs, don't want to stab and shoot eachother, so guess what? They don't!!!!




> LOL you as bad as fucking griffin ..  *people like you should be forced to give up everything and live in a shitty council/private/temp flat for the rest of your life*


 Funnily enough, guess who you sound like?


----------



## trabuquera (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I speak English, because I live in England.  It's our official language.  If I was to permanently relocate to .. well pretty much any other country in the world that doesn't have English as its primary language, you'd have to learn at least enough of the language to get by.  Would any other country put up in roadsigns in its native language and English to help those who have moved there?  Of course not.  We bend over backwards not only to accommodate other cultures (which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing) but at the expense of our own.  Funds are wasted providing services that could be far better used for everyone's benefit rather than just a specific language group.
> 
> How many hundreds of millions of pounds are spent annually on translation services in pretty much every avenue of modern life, to accommodate those who have come to this country and, even after 10 years here, don't speak enough English to be able to hold a basic conversation?



 Where to begin?

1) There are a great many British expats across the world (but most notably in Spain and Italy) who have emigrated and spent 10 years or more without "learning enough of the language to get by". In fact Britons like yourself (any myself) are notoriously some of the poorest language-learners anywhere and carry on that inadequacy when they emigrate. If you doubt this, try googling up almost any report recently on the 'difficulties' lots of UK pensioners are having accessing public health services in Spain.

2) A vast number of countries worldwide actually have dual-language road signs, in "local language X" + English. France, bits of Spain, vast swathes of the Middle East, virtually the whole of Africa, Hong Kong, Taiwan, some bits of China, India , etc etc etc etc etc ....

3) It is not a case of immigrants "refusing" to learn English (at least not now, if it ever was.) There is now a requirement for anyone seeking permanent residency and/or citizenship in the UK to sit an English-language test. Sadly, in many inner London boroughs, there has been no corresponding increase in funding to pay for language teaching for new arrivals; unless you've already been in the UK for over 12 months, or are a registered asylum seeker, you will have to fork out hundreds of pounds for a few courses in a possibly dodgy private-sector tutorial college, or even more hundreds of pounds to attend the same courses at local authority-run colleges which UK students can attend for free.

Get out a bit more, and you might learn some of this from actually interacting with people rather than condemning them from behind a keyboard.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 27, 2008)

sadly that would only result in two issues 1) Ajdown would be forced on more people a bad thing for humanity....

2) they are looking for confirmation of their prejudices to continue the fanstasy they have built up that it's not them that's useless but the system which allows others with greater skill set's to surpass them in employment....

only the interminable thick and frankly insitutionally unemployable blame immigrants for their own lack of employment prospects...


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 27, 2008)

trabuquera said:


> Get out a bit more, and you might learn some of this from actually interacting with people rather than condemning them from behind a keyboard.



Firm, and eloquently fair.


----------



## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Rutita1 said:


> Firm, and eloquently fair.



... except there are many reasons why people don't "get out and socialise", none of which you know why about me, and frankly it's none of your concern either.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> ... except there are many reasons why people don't "get out and socialise", none of which you know why about me, and frankly it's none of your concern either.



Funny that, because a lot of _your_ opinions that marginalise, denigrate and blatantly blame 'others' for many of the things that you are not happy about in your own life _do_ concern me. 

Especially since by your own admission you do not _'get out much'_ and have no real, objective experience of those you attack.


----------



## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Rutita1 said:


> Especially since by your own admission you do not _'get out much'_ and have no real, objective experience of those you attack.



Where is there to go though?  Most of the things there are to do involve going and sitting in a pub with people - which, thankfully since the smoking ban is slightly more tolerable - but when you don't drink alcohol going to a pub does get tedious.  Unfortunately my partner lives 120 miles away so we only get to see each other at weekends, and although I'd like to move up there it's finding a job that's a problem.

I don't have many friends around where I live - most of my best friends are online friends and in all honesty I'd rather spend a night chatting with them online than going out and spending loads of money at a pub and risk getting mugged on the way home.

Then again, I don't really need other people to 'validate my existance'.


----------



## Vividly (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Where is there to go though?  Most of the things there are to do involve going and sitting in a pub



Well, yeah that's a problem with the UK, if you don't like pubs/clubs where do you out? 
There is the cinema etc, but realisitcally sociallising in the U.K. dose tend to revolve around pubs & clubs a lot more.


----------



## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Vividly said:


> There is the cinema etc, but realisitcally sociallising in the U.K. dose tend to revolve around pubs & clubs a lot more.



... and everything's so damn expensive too, you can't afford to go out every night.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Where is there to go though?  Most of the things there are to do involve going and sitting in a pub with people - which, thankfully since the smoking ban is slightly more tolerable - but when you don't drink alcohol going to a pub does get tedious.  Unfortunately my partner lives 120 miles away so we only get to see each other at weekends, and although I'd like to move up there it's finding a job that's a problem.
> 
> I don't have many friends around where I live - most of my best friends are online friends and in all honesty I'd rather spend a night chatting with them online than going out and spending loads of money at a pub and risk getting mugged on the way home.



You think you are the only one who is in this predictament? 

Yes it can be hard but FFS stop taking out your frustrations on others!!!

Life irks all of us, it always has and it always will, in this you are not special.

You sounf like you are making excuses, and you seriously sound like you should move closer to your lady or the friends you appreciate, risk the job thing, something will turn up. If it doesn't you may have to slum it for a while until you find a better job, lots of people have to do it this way.

You also sound lonely.

It isn't uncommon you know, especially given your current position. I sympathise but please just stop being so ungenerous and intolerant and make a decision about changing your own life which clearly you are not happy in.
I know it isn't easy, but it's more than worth a try.



> Then again, I don't really need other people to 'validate my existance'.



Well you seem to be validating yourself by putting others down and making unfair and ill-informed comments on here lately, so that isn't strictly true is it?


----------



## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Rutita1 said:


> you seriously sound like you should move closer to your lady or the friends you appreciate, risk the job thing, something will turn up. If it doesn't you may have to slum it for a while until you find a better job, lots of people have to do it this way.



I'm working on moving up there.  It's just hard when most jobs seem to be upper level management needing 20 years experience (which I don't have) or vegetable processing (which I physically couldn't do).

Living with her isn't a problem so 'slumming it' isn't necessary, but she's disabled and neither of us have sufficient cash reserves to ride the storm for a few months, especially as she'd lose a lot by no longer living alone.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> ... except there are many reasons why people don't "get out and socialise", none of which you know why about me, and frankly it's none of your concern either.



except you make it our concern by voicing your bigotted narrow minded and clearly inexperinced wittering's on this site.

you bought the ticket for the ride you are now on, you can stop the ride at any time by simply getting off.  The fact it might prick your consiouence or offend your morals is something you need to deal with. blaming others for your own situation or thought patterns is a sad cop out...

who cares about your situation, it's your mind which is closeted and closed nothing to do with your human frailites or otherwise.  It's those words on this site which condem you not your other unspoken issues... 

grow up. are you the only person in the world to have problems?  so why act as though you are...

discompassionate comments begat discompassionate responses....


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 27, 2008)

none of which has anythign to do with the thread title or anythign else concerning it really just another attention seeker looking to fuck up a thread with their actions...


----------



## Blagsta (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> ... except there are many reasons why people don't "get out and socialise", none of which you know why about me, and frankly it's none of your concern either.



I'm guessing that when you do go out about and socialise you alienate people with your views (in Brixton anyway).  Am I right?


----------



## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Blagsta said:


> I'm guessing that when you do go out about and socialise you alienate people with your views (in Brixton anyway).  Am I right?



No, I generally don't have a need to communicate with strangers when I'm out, unless I need to ask them for something, or they ask me something.

I'm not in the habit of just striking up a conversation with random individuals.


----------



## citydreams (May 27, 2008)

..he says, on t'internet


----------



## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

citydreams said:


> ..he says, on t'internet



It's safer here, you remain more in control of the conversation, and it's much easier to leave it than if someone is next to you on a bus that might get off and follow you.


----------



## citydreams (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> It's safer here, you remain more in control of the conversation, and it's much easier to leave it than if someone is next to you on a bus that might get off and follow you.



"Lying in my heap of Earth I can naturally dream of all sorts of things, even of an understanding with the beast, though I know well enough that no such thing can happen, and at the moment when we see each other, more, at that at the instant we merely guess at each other's presence, we shall both blindly bare our claws and teeth, neither of us a second before or after the other, both of us filled with a new and different hunger, even if we should already be gorged to bursting."

"But all remained unchanged."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Burrow_(story)


----------



## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

That went waaaaaay over my head... maybe it's because I'm tired.


----------



## Blagsta (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> No, I generally don't have a need to communicate with strangers when I'm out, unless I need to ask them for something, or they ask me something.
> 
> I'm not in the habit of just striking up a conversation with random individuals.



Probably just as well.  Spouting some of the views you hold in Brixton pubs might not be too healthy!


----------



## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Blagsta said:


> Probably just as well.  Spouting some of the views you hold in Brixton pubs might not be too healthy!



I do have enough common sense to know that ... the last time I went out, apart from ordering a drink, the only thing someone said to me all night was 'wheres the bogs mate', which I pointed to and he shuffled off in the general direction thereof.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I'm working on moving up there.  It's just hard when most jobs seem to be upper level management needing 20 years experience (which I don't have) or vegetable processing (which I physically couldn't do).
> 
> Living with her isn't a problem so 'slumming it' isn't necessary, but she's disabled and neither of us have sufficient cash reserves to ride the storm for a few months, especially as she'd lose a lot by no longer living alone.


I meant 'slumming it' in terms of the type of job you may have to do....I mean not getting your ideal job straight away.



ajdown said:


> No, I generally don't have a need to communicate with strangers when I'm out, unless I need to ask them for something, or they ask me something.
> 
> I'm not in the habit of just striking up a conversation with random individuals.


You suffer from 'stranger danger'. Some of us see 'strangers' as potential acquaintances/friends. Even more so if you join a club, do something with people who share common interests/ go places of interests that may have socialising possibilities.



ajdown said:


> It's safer here, you remain more in control of the conversation, and it's much easier to leave it than if someone is next to you on a bus that might get off and follow you.


 You are paranoid. Any idea how uncommon that is?



ajdown said:


> I do have enough common sense to know that ... the last time I went out, apart from ordering a drink, the only thing someone said to me all night was 'wheres the bogs mate', which I pointed to and he shuffled off in the general direction thereof.



How many people did you pass the time of day with? How many people did you make eye contact with? 
Even on my darkest days I manage a smile or  polite exchanges, it really isn't that hard.

From some of the stuff you have recently posted I imagine you give off an 'unapproachable' air.

You seem frustrated and critical and it's like a cancer. It eats you up, you feel sorry for yourself and it makes you project your bad feeling onto other people, other things. 

It's a defense mechanism yes, but it's extremely detrimental as you lose the ability to relate to, engauge objectively or empathise with others. There is a level of depression in there also.

The cure is changing your life because the one you have now isn't making you happy. It may take time but sitting back, making excuses and being miserable is equally wasting time.


----------



## durruti02 (May 28, 2008)

Rutita1 said:


> So no BME go to the same pubs as White People?
> No BME are middle class?
> All BME are in gangs that go around stabbing and shooting eachother?
> 
> ...



eh?? LOL what ARE you on about! of course we listen to the same music etc etc etc of course the vast maj of bme are not in gangs etc etc etc 

you seem to have entirely missed my point that is, that 'church street' systematically discriminates against people because of race and class .. i ask again you and others yet again how many bme or w/c people do you see in fresh and wild, in the spence, in the fox reformed, at the farmers market etc etc etc and again ask where have all the bme business like Gladdy Wax gone????? and i know second hand  that certain pubs ( and can be certain more do) deliberately put off black people from coming

these 'church street' people are wankers .. they have their 'village' lifestyle living on inflated incomes from parasitical and useless jobs living in almost parallel universe to the surrounding population who are overwhelmingly poor angry and frustrated and reguarly stabbing and shooting each other ..

edit -( rututia pointed out ) that sentance above reads wrong .. but the fact remains that the surrounding pop are poor ARE frustrated and many many are angry and that means that SOME end up stabbing and shooting


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 28, 2008)

once more your racism is showing you realise there are realtively few 'white' shops in church street the majority being turkish indian bengali and other resturants right... 

but then if you're not a local without local knowledge your own overt racism will of course prevade every asepct of your own viewpoint... 

once again duritti playing the race card to score polical points with no basis in reality or giving on fig for the actual area....

systemically racist street... 

you should cease flapping your gums uslessly like a goldfish fallen out of it's bowl...


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 28, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> and i know second hand  that certain pubs ( and can be certain more do) deliberately put off black people from coming


 Which ones?



> these 'church street' people are wankers .. they have their 'village' lifestyle living on inflated incomes from parasitical and useless jobs living in almost parallel universe to the surrounding population *who are overwhelmingly poor angry and frustrated and reguarly stabbing and shooting each other ..*


A massive generalisation as the vast majority of BME and W/C in that area do not do this at all.

Making statements like that makes you part of the problem...


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 28, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> these 'church street' people are wankers .. they have their 'village' lifestyle living on inflated incomes from parasitical and useless jobs living in almost parallel universe to the surrounding population who are overwhelmingly poor angry and frustrated and reguarly stabbing and shooting each other ..



'village' lifestyle.  What an utter tool you really are.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (May 28, 2008)

goldenecitrone said:


> 'village' lifestyle.  What an utter tool you really are.


more tea vicar?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 29, 2008)

sticks lea valley delta blues on the gramphone and wanders over to the orchard to the strains of Mother Hackney...


----------



## durruti02 (May 29, 2008)

Rutita1 said:


> 1)Which ones?
> 
> 
> A massive generalisation as the vast majority of BME and W/C in that area do not do this at all.
> ...



1) not going to name but they involve lots of sofas and expensive drinks and djs .. i am not lying 

2) yes i get really wound up by all this ..  and so i have again made a wrong statement .. the maj of people ARE frustrated .. many many are angry and that means that SOME end up stabbing and shooting 

it does not change the real deal that we have two worlds here and it is bullshit that the church street tossers live their merry lives in a area of so much surrounding poverty .. they like to think they are nothing to do with this .. of course they bloody are .. these things are all connected


----------



## durruti02 (May 29, 2008)

goldenecitrone said:


> 'village' lifestyle.  What an utter tool you really are.


 they call it that .. they think that .. so why am i a tool?


----------



## durruti02 (May 29, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> more tea vicar?


 so paulie .. do you like church street?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 29, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> 1) not going to name but they involve lots of sofas and expensive drinks and djs .. i am not lying
> 
> 2) yes i get really wound up by all this ..  and so i have again made a wrong statement .. the maj of people ARE frustrated .. many many are angry and that means that SOME end up stabbing and shooting
> 
> it does not change the real deal that we have two worlds here and it is bullshit that the church street tossers live their merry lives in a area of so much surrounding poverty .. they like to think they are nothing to do with this .. of course they bloody are .. these things are all connected



1) lie name or be damned.
2) yes you are entirely wrong.  you are frsutrated you project that in to your interactions with others and attempt to build consenious and commonality out of your own frustration.  It can't be done.  people really don't think like you do.  well very few, they tend to be obbsessional types too.   you cannot know the area well or be able to pinpoint the problems of the area by crass sweeping generaliseations. that's not how it works. 

church street is a street full of resurants bars and estate agents and little else. there's a few bouttequee type shops on it which open and close with the wind and little else. 

this assumption that the place is in someway economically or socially different is utter bullshit.  it might be slightyl more affluent than other parts but then that will be down to the resurant trade rather than any socioeconomic or racial factors... 

even so who the hell are you to tell us what you think is wrong with our community from an outsiders point of view when all you do is make crass sweeping generalisations which are entirely unfounded.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 29, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> they call it that .. they think that .. so why am i a tool?



who'se they?

fucking dick...

again you fictious peoples you claim you are representing...

not trying to make captial out of things which you have no involvement in again are shitforbrains....


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## durruti02 (May 29, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> once more your racism is showing you realise there are realtively few 'white' shops in church street the majority being turkish indian bengali and other resturants right...
> 
> but then if you're not a local without local knowledge your own overt racism will of course prevade every asepct of your own viewpoint...
> 
> ...



funny how you moan about palestinians being excluded in palestine by israel ( quite rightly as it goes ) but when exclusion happens on your doorstep you are silent .. to be honest it is more a class thing but many of these m/c types associate black with w/c .. and yes of course the spence lion prince skate board shop kids clothes shop fresh and wild are all turkish arn't they .. and yes the indian restuarants are indeed run by er indians


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## durruti02 (May 29, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> who'se they?
> 
> fucking dick...
> 
> ...


 you swearing again? my you have so little self control .. yes of course they .. the middle class tossers who infest church street think of it as a village .. are you one of them?


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## durruti02 (May 29, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> church street is a street full of resurants bars and estate agents and little else. there's a few bouttequee type shops on it which open and close with the wind and little else.
> 
> this assumption that the place is in someway economically or socially different is utter bullshit.  it might be slightyl more affluent than other parts but then that will be down to the resurant trade rather than any socioeconomic or racial factors...


LOL LOL LOL .. you are one of them aren't you!


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## tbaldwin (May 29, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> here we go again with the standard bollocks church street v's the rest of stokie shite all over again ... funny how last weekend at butterfields road there didn't seem to be too much racial tension for what was in essenece a village fete, no doubt next weekend these same old faces will be revelling with the rest of them at stoke fest before not giving stokie another thought for year ....



You sad ignorant twat Garfield. Butterfields road?????? Do you mean Allen Road? A road where the pub used by locals got burnt down 2  kids burnt to death, 2 others left scarred for life..Across the road the launderette was also burnt down...A friend of mine who lived 2 doors away from the pub was murdered 6 years ago...It didnt make the papers....Across Butterfield green you have huge problems on the shakespeare estate with drugs and gang violence....
People like you and Paulie could live in Hackney for the next 40 years and still never understand what goes on amongst less privelleged people.


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 29, 2008)

durruti02;7559000]so paulie .. do you like church street?[/QUOTE]Compared to what? Compared to the junction said:


> You sad ignorant twat Garfield. Butterfields road?????? Do you mean Allen Road? A road where the pub used by locals got burnt down 2  kids burnt to death, 2 others left scarred for life..Across the road the launderette was also burnt down...A friend of mine who lived 2 doors away from the pub was murdered 6 years ago...It didnt make the papers....Across Butterfield green you have huge problems on the shakespeare estate with drugs and gang violence....
> People like you and Paulie could live in Hackney for the next 40 years and still never understand what goes on amongst less privelleged people.


The pub burning was a terrible incident, i used to drink in there, care to share wtf that has to do with the price of fish? I know someone who lives on Shakespeare estate, grew up on it. Yes, there are problems with local lads, instead of shrieking like some hysterical banshee, have you got anything positive as to how to address this issue? Understand _'less privelleged'_ [sic] people you say - Again, care to share when i moved into this affluent position of privilege? On what do you base this ad hom idiocy? 

I've just reread the thread and am struggling to understand exactly what your point is - yes, there are quite stark and noticeable contrasts between people living on local authority estates and many of the people in the huge houses off church st and surrounds, but most of the young people i come into contact with are well behaved, respestful and decent people, who are as shocked and upset by incidents such as the murder of Etim before christmas as everyone else. I certainly don't see or hear about overt racial aggravation in the way that you have implied, more acquisitional crime based on poverty, opportunism, as well as drugs. 

I believe that the council could do more, communities could do more, and individuals need to wake up to their roles and responsibilities towards young people. I think there's more that could be done with mentoring programmes, i think more could be done in terms of ensuring education is relevant and inspiring to such a diverse bunch of kids, youth workers funded to employ local people to work on the estates and getting to know the kids would bring about other financial savings, so the council should be making this case to central government as well as residents.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 29, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> you swearing again? my you have so little self control .. yes of course they .. the middle class tossers who infest church street think of it as a village .. are you one of them?


yes alright if you liek i'm one of them if that means you can sectraintly dvide up a community which as yet in nearly 15 years of living in it i have never seen then ok love.... you not even fucking living here for 30 seconds would of course be able to define an areas culture based on of nothing but your own sweet arsed preducies... wanker is what we tend to call you round that's all...



tbaldwin said:


> You sad ignorant twat Garfield. Butterfields road?????? Do you mean Allen Road? A road where the pub used by locals got burnt down 2  kids burnt to death, 2 others left scarred for life..Across the road the launderette was also burnt down...A friend of mine who lived 2 doors away from the pub was murdered 6 years ago...It didnt make the papers....Across Butterfield green you have huge problems on the shakespeare estate with drugs and gang violence....
> People like you and Paulie could live in Hackney for the next 40 years and still never understand what goes on amongst less privelleged people.


are you writing for the comic books again?  what's with the extrainious puncituation unless it's to indicate that you are talking out of your arse. 

if you can of course point to where i have said there are no problems intrestingly you missed the house at the end of our old road which was firebombed the pub on northwold road which was burnt down and of course the more recent stabbings in your little diatribe... but of course living here you'd know... oh wait you don't....

wanker.


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## ajdown (May 29, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes alright if you liek i'm one of them if that means you can sectraintly dvide up a community which as yet in nearly 15 years of living in it i have never seen then ok love.... .



So you live in this "village" area?

Every village has its idiot.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 29, 2008)

ajdown said:


> So you live in this "village" area?
> 
> Every village has its idiot.



yeah if you like


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## tbaldwin (May 29, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> The pub burning was a terrible incident, i used to drink in there, care to share wtf that has to do with the price of fish? I know someone who lives on Shakespeare estate, grew up on it. Yes, there are problems with local lads, instead of shrieking like some hysterical banshee, have you got anything positive as to how to address this issue? Understand _'less privelleged'_ [sic] people you say - Again, care to share when i moved into this affluent position of privilege? On what do you base this ad hom idiocy?
> 
> I've just reread the thread and am struggling to understand exactly what your point is - yes, there are quite stark and noticeable contrasts between people living on local authority estates and many of the people in the huge houses off church st and surrounds, but most of the young people i come into contact with are well behaved, respestful and decent people, who are as shocked and upset by incidents such as the murder of Etim before christmas as everyone else. I certainly don't see or hear about overt racial aggravation in the way that you have implied, more acquisitional crime based on poverty, opportunism, as well as drugs.
> 
> I believe that the council could do more, communities could do more, and individuals need to wake up to their roles and responsibilities towards young people. I think there's more that could be done with mentoring programmes, i think more could be done in terms of ensuring education is relevant and inspiring to such a diverse bunch of kids, youth workers funded to employ local people to work on the estates and getting to know the kids would bring about other financial savings, so the council should be making this case to central government as well as residents.



You used to drink in the POW? Really? Apologies in that case...You really do come across as somebody who would have drunk in the shakespeare from about the time they yuppied it up.
How many times did you drink in the POW by the way do you remember the owners names?


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## tbaldwin (May 29, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes alright if you liek i'm one of them if that means you can sectraintly dvide up a community which as yet in nearly 15 years of living in it i have never seen then ok love.... you not even fucking living here for 30 seconds would of course be able to define an areas culture based on of nothing but your own sweet arsed preducies... wanker is what we tend to call you round that's all...
> 
> 
> are you writing for the comic books again?  what's with the extrainious puncituation unless it's to indicate that you are talking out of your arse.
> ...



Garf me and durruti have never actually been to Hackney but it does look awwwful in the documentaries......

You silly sad twat.....You know next to nothing about Hackney after living there for 15 years...


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 29, 2008)

tbaldwin said:


> Garf me and durruti have never actually been to Hackney but it does look awwwful in the documentaries......
> 
> You silly sad twat.....You know next to nothing about Hackney after living there for 15 years...


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## rutabowa (May 29, 2008)

i'm more stoke newington than the lot of you


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 29, 2008)

rutabowa said:


> i'm more stoke newington than the lot of you



funny that's what i was thinking...


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## Wolfie Smith (May 29, 2008)

rutabowa said:


> i'm more stoke newington than the lot of you




I ruddy well AM Stoke Newington.


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 29, 2008)

tbaldwin said:


> You used to drink in the POW? Really? Apologies in that case...You really do come across as somebody who would have drunk in the shakespeare from about the time they yuppied it up.
> How many times did you drink in the POW by the way do you remember the owners names?


Any chance that you'll actually engage with the rest of my post?


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## rutabowa (May 29, 2008)

Stokey said:


> I ruddy well AM Stoke Newington.


so are you gentrified or what, we need to know


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## tbaldwin (May 29, 2008)

_I've just reread the thread and am struggling to understand exactly what your point is - yes, there are quite stark and noticeable contrasts between people living on local authority estates and many of the people in the huge houses off church st and surrounds, but most of the young people i come into contact with are well behaved, respestful and decent people, who are as shocked and upset by incidents such as the murder of Etim before christmas as everyone else. I certainly don't see or hear about overt racial aggravation in the way that you have implied, more acquisitional crime based on poverty, opportunism, as well as drugs. _
I believe that the council could do more, communities could do more, and individuals need to wake up to their roles and responsibilities towards young people. I think there's more that could be done with mentoring programmes, i think more could be done in terms of ensuring education is relevant and inspiring to such a diverse bunch of kids, youth workers funded to employ local people to work on the estates and getting to know the kids would bring about other financial savings, so the council should be making this case to central government as well as residents.


Paulie i actually agree with a fair bit of what youve said. 
I think youve got it a bit arse round tit there are major differences not only in people living on estates and houses but within estates and roads. Etim was just one victim of the gang violence that is totally out of control in london and many other areas too.
Its OK for 20,30 and 40 somethings who are removed from the violence but not so great for younger people. Hackney council are an utter disgrace...they waste so much money but as you point out facilities and things to do for youths are almost totally overlooked...I used to play football with loads of kids over butterfield...sadly many became victims or perpetrators of gang violence....Really great kids some of whom ended up murderers or murdered....There is practically no youth football teams in Hackney....Yet the council spent how much on clissold leisure centre or on tennis and cricket clubs....
They are utter scum. But what of all the middle class lefties in Stoke Newington/Hackney what is their role in all of this?


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## Treacle Toes (May 29, 2008)

Stokey said:


> I ruddy well AM Stoke Newington.



Did you go to school there also?

....and has your first born child ever sported a babygrow which has the inscription....'*Made in N.16'?* 

If not you suck i'm afraid.


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## durruti02 (May 29, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> Compared to what? Compared to the junction, not really no. Compared to Oxford Street, sure. Too many wanky shops and lots of annoying people with buggies the size of small cars, but also retains some decent enough pubs, a couple of reasonable places for coffee/grub although not compared to the High St. Couple of very mixed schools and of course, the park off the west side of Church St is very pleasant, at least away from the cafe.
> 
> I've just reread the thread and am struggling to understand exactly what your point is - yes, there are quite stark and noticeable contrasts between people living on local authority estates and many of the people in the huge houses off church st and surrounds, but most of the young people i come into contact with are well behaved, respestful and decent people, who are as shocked and upset by incidents such as the murder of Etim before christmas as everyone else. I certainly don't see or hear about overt racial aggravation in the way that you have implied, more acquisitional crime based on poverty, opportunism, as well as drugs.
> 
> I believe that the council could do more, communities could do more, and individuals need to wake up to their roles and responsibilities towards young people. I think there's more that could be done with mentoring programmes, i think more could be done in terms of ensuring education is relevant and inspiring to such a diverse bunch of kids, youth workers funded to employ local people to work on the estates and getting to know the kids would bring about other financial savings, so the council should be making this case to central government as well as residents.



ok fair enough .. but i think it is worse than you describe .. i am sure most of these people would not deliberately exclude or fuck up anyone but in their ignorent middle class privalaged lives, they do do that. These problems do not come from nowhere as you know .. and church street is one of the most galring examples of this division in east  and north london .. 

p.s see the front of the happy hackney today? i think you'll see more of that 

p.s of course the maj of kids are cool and particulalry to older people .. for the kids themselves it is pretty fraught around here not being able to go to certain areas etc etc etc

re the council ..socially they are based on church street .. used to be in the fox reformed .. and you have to ask why they do so little for locally w/c people .. all part of the same shit imho


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## Treacle Toes (May 29, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> *for the kids themselves it is pretty fraught* around here not being able to go to certain areas etc etc etc



This is a good point and perhaps the one you should have been making all along as IMO it is the most important. 

The sheer stress and anxiety on the shoulders of young people now, especially boys/men makes me shiver. I feel for them in this respect, so much it hurts.


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## durruti02 (May 29, 2008)

Rutita1 said:


> This is a good point and perhaps the one you should have been making all along as IMO it is the most important.
> 
> The sheer stress and anxiety on the shoulders of young people now, especially boys/men makes me shiver. I feel for them in this respect, so much it hurts.


 yes indeed  it is not good


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