# Can you get housing benefit to rent if you already own a property?



## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

I had some grief from my downstairs neighbour and her aggressive boyfriend about a year ago. I fear it's about to start up again.  She's recently just started shouting at me in the stairwell.

I own my flat. I'm feeling Oh fuck here we go again. If I was still a tenant, I'd probably be asking about a move to another flat, because I can't go on feeling all stressed and anxious in my own home again.

If her and her bf really start up the harassment and intimidation again, and I can't stay here, will I be entitled to housing benefit to live somewhere else?

I'd have to declare that I own my flat. But what if I can't live here because I'm being harassed by that bitch and her bf? They made my life a f'ing misery last time round. 

If I were to move somewhere else, would they tell me that I'm not eligible to receive housing benefit on the place I was renting?  It's not like I would be getting housing benefit for two flats.  I own my flat outright, I don't receive any housing benefit or any mortgage interest payments.  But I'm feeling on the verge of being harassed out of my home by a bitch of a neighbour.

What's the score, does anyone know?


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

Hopefully not.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> Hopefully not.




So in your opinion it's okay for me to be trapped in my flat, with a hostile neighbour who has a bf who is an aggressive boxer (and possibly a bouncer) who has admitted to another neighbour that he has anger management problems... and I've just got to suck it up?  

ETA:  There are three flats in my block and one stairwell, one flat on each floor, I'm on the top, she's in the middle.  I have to pass her door to get into or out of my flat.  Her and her bf previously had a habit of waiting till they could hear me coming out of my flat and accosting me on the stairs on my way down, or waiting till they could hear me coming in through the security door on the ground floor and accosting me on my way up.

Her bf fits the stereotype of a thug and he has admitted to being aggressive and having anger management problems.  I am actually scared for my personal safety.


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> So in your opinion it's okay for me to be trapped in my flat, with a hostile neighbour who has a bf who is an aggressive boxer (and possibly a bouncer) who has admitted to another neighbour that he has anger management problems... and I've just got to suck it up?


 
No.
I never said or thought any of that.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> No.
> I never said or thought any of that.


But you're hoping that if I have to leave my flat because I'm scared for my own personal safety then I won't be able to get any housing benefit or any help with living costs for alternative accommodation?  

What do you mean, then?

ETA:  To clarify, I do not currently receive a penny of state support for my housing costs, so it's not like I'm asking for 'double bubble' or whatever the police call it when they get overtime and paid twice for the same thing.


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## frogwoman (Sep 12, 2010)

ann i thought you owned another flat somewhere else, or am i thinking of someone else?


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

frogwoman said:


> ann i thought you owned another flat somewhere else, or am i thinking of someone else?


Yes, you're right, that's what I actually said in my post frogwoman






			
				AnnO'Neemus said:
			
		

> ...I own my flat outright, I don't receive any housing benefit or any mortgage interest payments. But I'm feeling on the verge of being harassed out of my home by a bitch of a neighbour...


It's weird, because if I was still a social housing tenant, I could ask to be re-housed on the grounds of harassment or something.

But I'm left wondering:  So, I own my home, so that means I can't get any help and I have to just suck up the shouting on the stairwells and the harassment and intimidation?   

I own my home outright (because of a medical negligence payout).  As such, I don't receive a penny in housing benefit or mortgage interest or any other state support for housing costs.

I could understand if the rules were that I couldn't, say, claim housing benefit for two places, but I've checked the Shelter website and it does say that in certain circumstances it is possible to claim housing benefit for two homes and if they have to flee due to threat or violence or whatever.  So if I still rented my home and if I was in receipt of housing benefit, it seems that I would be eligible to claim for a second lot of housing benefit on a different property.  But it doesn't say what the score is if a person owns their home but is too scared to actually live in it and needs to live somewhere else.  It's not clear what the rules are, whether they're the same as for people who rent, whether I could claim housing benefit for somewhere else, or whether they'd turn round and say 'you own a property' you're not entitled to anything.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

I swear, if it's not one f'ing thing it's another.  If it's not piss-taking free-loading 'lodgers', it's neighbours harassing me.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2010)

I wouldn't get a bean to move if my neighbours were harassing me and I don't own any property at all.


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Yes, you're right, that's what I actually said in my post frogwomanIt's weird, because *if I was still a social housing tenant, I could ask to be re-housed on the grounds of harassment or something.*
> 
> But I'm left wondering:  So, I own my home, so that means I can't get any help and I have to just suck up the shouting on the stairwells and the harassment and intimidation?
> 
> ...


 
Yeah,
You could ask.

Did you confirm that you own more than one property ?
Your answer is not clear.
Can you clarify how many properties you own ?


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I wouldn't get a bean to move if my neighbours were harassing me and I don't own any property at all.


Erm, actually, FridgeMagnet, you would.

If you rent and you're in receive of housing benefit and if you have to move due to fear of violence you would, actually, get a bean.  If you moved to alternative accommodation temporarily and intended to move back to your old property, then you would, in fact, get housing benefit for *both* properties.  Or that's my understanding of what it said on the Shelter website.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2010)

Erm, actually, AnnO'Neemus, I'm not in receipt of housing benefit.


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## miss minnie (Sep 12, 2010)

If you own a property then rent it out and use the income to rent somewhere else.  Or sell it.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> Yeah,
> You could ask.
> 
> Did you confirm that you own more than one property ?
> ...


One.  I own one flat.  For which I do not receive a single penny in state support.  I do not receive housing benefit.  I do not receive mortgage interest.  I don't know how much clearer I can be on this score, I've already said it, erm... three times.

I have previously been subjected to a prolonged campaign of intimidation and harassment by a neighbour and her boyfriend.  Things calmed down for a long time.  But they seem to have started up again.

I am simply asking... if I need to move somewhere else for my own safety, because I'm actually in fear for my safety, because her boyfriend is a walking talking stereotype of a thug, boxer (perhaps a bouncer) who has admitted to another neighbour that he is aggressive and has anger management problems... if I move will I be able to claim housing benefit?  Again, for probably fourth time, I am not already in receipt of housing benefit, I would not be claiming housing benefit for two properties, I would simply be claiming housing benefit for *one* property.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Erm, actually, FridgeMagnet, you would.
> 
> If you rent and you're in receive of housing benefit and if you have to move due to fear of violence you would, actually, get a bean.  If you moved to alternative accommodation temporarily and intended to move back to your old property, then you would, in fact, get housing benefit for *both* properties.  Or that's my understanding of what it said on the Shelter website.


Then you're not comparing like with like FridgeMagnet.  You're obviously in receipt of some kind of income that enables you to pay your rent.  I'm not.  I'm not working at the moment.  



FridgeMagnet said:


> Erm, actually, AnnO'Neemus, I'm not in receipt of housing benefit.


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> One.  I own one flat.  For which I do not receive a single penny in state support.  I do not receive housing benefit.  I do not receive mortgage interest.  I don't know how much clearer I can be on this score, I've already said it, erm... three times.
> 
> I have previously been subjected to a prolonged campaign of intimidation and harassment by a neighbour and her boyfriend.  Things calmed down for a long time.  But they seem to have started up again.
> 
> I am simply asking... if I need to move somewhere else for my own safety, because I'm actually in fear for my safety, because her boyfriend is a walking talking stereotype of a thug, boxer (perhaps a bouncer) who has admitted to another neighbour that he is aggressive and has anger management problems... if I move will I be able to claim housing benefit?  Again, for probably fourth time, I am not already in receipt of housing benefit, I would not be claiming housing benefit for two properties, I would simply be claiming housing benefit for *one* property.


 
Call the Police.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Then you're not comparing like with like FridgeMagnet.  You're obviously in receipt of some kind of income that enables you to pay your rent.  I'm not.  I'm not working at the moment.


 
You're not in receipt of housing benefit either. So actually yes I am comparing like with like.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

miss minnie said:


> If you own a property then rent it out and use the income to rent somewhere else.  Or sell it.


It's not really in a fit state to be rented out.  The windows, bathroom and kitchen need to be renovated.  It's full of my furniture and crap.  When I was working away, a 'friend' stayed here for free for a few months, and then it was left empty.

ETA:  As far as selling it goes, that would likely take a few months.  I'm thinking of actually leaving my flat for my own safety within a few days a week or so.  Even if I put my flat on the market, I wouldn't receive any money from the sale for a few months.  If I have to move now, because I'm scared of being assaulted by her thug of a bf, I don't actually have any money to pay for rent *now* to live somewhere safe.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You're not in receipt of housing benefit either. So actually yes I am comparing like with like.


Then how do you pay your rent FridgeMagnet?


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You're not in receipt of housing benefit either. So actually yes I am comparing like with like.


 
Fuck me !
You are not that bad !


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Then how do you pay your rent FridgeMagnet?


 
With leaves picked from the magical tree outside my window.

You are not in receipt of housing benefit. I am not in receipt of housing benefit. You would not get housing benefit to rent. I would not get housing benefit to rent. How is this not comparing like with like?


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> With leaves picked from the magical tree outside my window.
> 
> You are not in receipt of housing benefit. I am not in receipt of housing benefit. You would not get housing benefit to rent. I would not get housing benefit to rent. How is this not comparing like with like?


I am not currently in receipt of housing benefit because I do not currently pay rent.  What I am asking is that if I had to move - due to being in fear for my personal safety - to a property where I did have to pay rent, then wouldn't I be eligible to receive housing benefit to pay that rent.

FridgeMagnet, honestly, you're being really pedantic and unhelpful here.

So:  You don't own your property.  You don't receive housing benefit.  Presumably, then, you (a) have an income that enables you to (b) you pay rent?  That is not comparing like with like because (a) I don't have an income and so am not in a position to (b) pay rent.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

Anyway, given that I am actually going through a really fucking stressful situation at the moment and I'm actually a single woman living by myself and I'm fucking afraid of being attacked in my stairwell by my downstairs neighbour's brick-fucking-shithouse of a boxer and aggressive bastard boyfriend, can all the pedants please just piss off out of this thread and leave it to people who know stuff about housing and benefits?  Thanks.


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Anyway, given that I am actually going through a really fucking stressful situation at the moment and I'm actually a single woman living by myself and I'm fucking afraid of being attacked in my stairwell by my downstairs neighbour's brick-fucking-shithouse of a boxer and aggressive bastard boyfriend, can all the pedants please just piss off out of this thread and leave it to people who know stuff about housing and benefits?  Thanks.


 
Try living on a Council Estate.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus, honestly, you're being really obtuse and imprecise here. Sell the assets that currently prevent you from getting housing benefit, if you want to rent elsewhere and get HB for it. Or contact the police and get on some sort of special funding for your harassment.


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## miss minnie (Sep 12, 2010)

Have you Googled?

Check your eligibility for housing benefit


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> Call the Police.


She works for the police in a civilian capacity as an interpreter.  She actually called the police out against me about a year ago when a friend came round for dinner and we were playing some music.  And she called them round one Saturday night/Sunday morning when me and, erm, a friend, were in bed, we were sitting chatting in bed Sunday morning and the police hammered at my door saying that they'd been in the flat downstairs and heard a noise that "could be construed as banging" - the only noise was about ten minutes before the Lovely Lodger had nipped to the loo so he'd closed the bathroom and bedroom doors.  

Seriously, this is why I getting so angsty and anxious about it.  She calls the police and makes noise complaints against me and gets the police to harass me as well.  That's why I'm feeling that I ought to just go... because I don't reckon I'm going to get any joy complaining about her harassment and intimidation.  Not when she works for the police and has them in her back pocket.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> Try living on a Council Estate.


I am living on a council estate.    What's that got to do with it?


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> She works for the police in a civilian capacity as an interpreter.  She actually called the police out against me about a year ago when a friend came round for dinner and we were playing some music.  And she called them round one Saturday night/Sunday morning when me and, erm, a friend, were in bed, we were sitting chatting in bed Sunday morning and the police hammered at my door saying that they'd been in the flat downstairs and heard a noise that "could be construed as banging" - the only noise was about ten minutes before the Lovely Lodger had nipped to the loo so he'd closed the bathroom and bedroom doors.
> 
> Seriously, this is why I getting so angsty and anxious about it.  She calls the police and makes noise complaints against me and gets the police to harass me as well.  That's why I'm feeling that I ought to just go... because I don't reckon I'm going to get any joy complaining about her harassment and intimidation.  Not when she works for the police and has them in her back pocket.


 
Call the Police.


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> *I am living on a council estate.*   What's that got to do with it?


 
Is that your problem ?


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> AnnO'Neemus, honestly, you're being really obtuse and imprecise here. Sell the assets that currently prevent you from getting housing benefit, if you want to rent elsewhere and get HB for it. Or contact the police and get on some sort of special funding for your harassment.


What am I being obtuse and imprecise about?

I don't know how much more precise I can be.  I've been totally above board and open about all the details.  I own my home.  I do not receive a penny in state support for rent or mortgage interest.  Because I own it outright as the result of a medical negligence settlement.  I am not currently working.  I am not in a position to pay rent on another property.  I am feeling as though I have to move away from my flat because my downstairs neighbour has started harassing me again.  And her and her boyfriend subjected me to a load of harassment about a year ago.  Her bf is built like a brick-shithouse and he's a boxer (and I think he might be a bouncer too) and he has admitted to another neighbour that he is aggressive and has an anger management problem.  As such, I am frightened of being attacked.  I don't feel safe in my block.  My flat is on the top floor.  I have to pass her front door on the middle landing in order to get to my flat on the way in, or to get to the main front security door on my way out.  And they previously had a habit of accosting me on the stairs and harassing me.  And she's recently started up again.  

What's obtuse or imprecise about any of that?


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> Call the Police.


What part of she works for the police and she has called her mates and roped them into harassing me are you not understanding?


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> Is that your problem ?


Look, you're obviously on some kind of wind-up, but I have a serious problem as a single woman who is in fear of being attacked, so I'd really appreciate it if you can take your smart alec comments elsewhere.


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> What part of she works for the police and she has called her mates and roped them into harassing me are you not understanding?


 
The paranoid bit.


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## mrsfran (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Look, you're obviously on some kind of wind-up, but I have a serious problem as a single woman who is in fear of being attacked, so I'd really appreciate it if you can take your smart alec comments elsewhere.


 
Just ignore him, he's overtired and showing off.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

Is 12th September National Cunts Day or something and I missed the memo? 

What part of I am a single woman and I live by myself and I am being harassed by a neighbour and I am scared of being attacked by her boyfriend are you all thinking it's appropriate to have fun with?


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## Sesquipedalian (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Is 12th September National Cunts Day or something and I missed the memo?
> 
> What part of I am a single woman and I live by myself and I am being harassed by a neighbour and I am scared of being attacked by her boyfriend are you all thinking it's appropriate to have fun with?


 
Gosh,
You are seriously passive aggressive.
You have been given some advice.
By myself and others,
You don't like it.

Ummm.....

Call the Council.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 12, 2010)

miss minnie said:


> Have you Googled?
> 
> Check your eligibility for housing benefit


Yes, miss minnie, thanks.  I have tried to Google.  That's how I came up with that other information.  I know that if I was already renting a property and already in receipt of housing benefit, then if I moved under similar circumstances, i.e. due to being afraid for my safety, then I would be able to claim housing benefit.  It is possible to receive housing benefit for two properties at the same time in those circumstances.

But I haven't been able to find anything about if you don't rent and don't receive housing benefit, but if you would need to rent and would need housing benefit to pay that rent, then what happens then?  I haven't found that answer.


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## killer b (Sep 12, 2010)

if you own a flat, you will not be eligible for housing benefit to live elsewhere.


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## Looby (Sep 12, 2010)

You say that the harrassment is starting again, what has the neighbour done recently? 

The thing is, even if you were entitled to claim HB elsewhere, you'd have to prove the harrassment as they're not just going to say, oh alright then, here's £500 a month.

You'd probably need diaries of events, reports from police/council and moving you would be a last resort, they'd be trying to get the neighbour out. 

My mum is going through this at the moment and has to go to court as a witness.


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## trashpony (Sep 12, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> You say that the harrassment is starting again, what has the neighbour done recently?
> 
> The thing is, even if you were entitled to claim HB elsewhere, you'd have to prove the harrassment as they're not just going to say, oh alright then, here's £500 a month.
> 
> ...


 
This is all you can do really. If you have hellish neighbours and you own your flat you're fucked as far as HB is concerned. Do you know *why* she is harassing you again?


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> What am I being obtuse and imprecise about?
> 
> I don't know how much more precise I can be.  I've been totally above board and open about all the details.  I own my home.  I do not receive a penny in state support for rent or mortgage interest.  Because I own it outright as the result of a medical negligence settlement.  I am not currently working.  I am not in a position to pay rent on another property.  I am feeling as though I have to move away from my flat because my downstairs neighbour has started harassing me again.  And her and her boyfriend subjected me to a load of harassment about a year ago.  Her bf is built like a brick-shithouse and he's a boxer (and I think he might be a bouncer too) and he has admitted to another neighbour that he is aggressive and has an anger management problem.  As such, I am frightened of being attacked.  I don't feel safe in my block.  My flat is on the top floor.  I have to pass her front door on the middle landing in order to get to my flat on the way in, or to get to the main front security door on my way out.  And they previously had a habit of accosting me on the stairs and harassing me.  And she's recently started up again.
> 
> What's obtuse or imprecise about any of that?



Look, I'm sorry if I was being insensitive but HB just isn't granted on the basis of any of that. This isn't a situation where it's going to help and you shouldn't need to use it anyway.


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## sheothebudworths (Sep 12, 2010)

I suppose at the very least, Ann - as well as keeping a diary etc - it might be worth seriously focusing on doing up your flat asap, so that you _could_ actually rent it out or even sell if this continues. 

Might feel at least that you're doing something positive and proactive about it in the meantime (I mean I know I started feeling a whole lot less troubled by my shit neighbours once a move became a realistic option, iyswim....despite the fact that their behaviour remained the same - although tbf, I didn't ever feel threatened by them  - just _massively_ irritated   ). The point still applies though!


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## likesfish (Sep 12, 2010)

I doubt without proof and some sort of plan from the housing department you'd get very far.
 contact your council  private sector housing department your councillor etc get it sorted


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## Espresso (Sep 12, 2010)

Why did the aggro with the neighbour stop the last time?


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## yardbird (Sep 12, 2010)

Sesquipedalian said:


> Try living on a Council Estate.


Sesq, you're really not being very helpful here, are you?


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## Maidmarian (Sep 17, 2010)

Ann, it doesn't sound to me as though you are eligable for HB, but you could try a local Womens' group for advice--- they may be able to suggest temp accommodation until you can sell/move if you are living in fear.


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## golightly (Sep 17, 2010)

It's pretty clear that, as a homeowner, you will not be eligible for housing benefit for another property.  It does start to look like you are trying to figure out how get money out of the state that you are not eligible for, but I don't think you are trying to do that.  My guess is that you want to know how you can live safely in your own home without being threatened and harrassed.  A couple of suggestions would be to rent your flat out to someone else and use the money to rent a flat elsewhere, or contact the Safer Neighbourhoods Team of the local Police on advice and support for dealing with threatening neighbours.  Someone may come along with better suggestions than I have.


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## scifisam (Sep 27, 2010)

It doesn't matter if your flat's a bit run down, it's a three-bedroom place; if you're willing to accept tenants on housing benefit then you'll be able to rent it out just like that and rent a 1 or 2 bedroom place for yourself. It might be nice to get a fresh start like that anyway. 

FWIW, social housing tenants have HUGE difficulty being moved for any reason and housing benefit would only be paid on two properties in very exceptional circumstances. You're not underprivileged due to owning property.


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## marty21 (Sep 27, 2010)

you have assets of above £16000, so can't claim HB.


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## kyser_soze (Sep 27, 2010)

scifisam said:


> It doesn't matter if your flat's a bit run down, it's a three-bedroom place; if you're willing to accept tenants on housing benefit then you'll be able to rent it out just like that and rent a 1 or 2 bedroom place for yourself. It might be nice to get a fresh start like that anyway.
> 
> FWIW, social housing tenants have HUGE difficulty being moved for any reason and housing benefit would only be paid on two properties in very exceptional circumstances. You're not underprivileged due to owning property.



Yes. Renting the place out would also give us the opportunity for a whole new selection of 'I'm having a nightmare with my tenants' threads, which would make a change from the 'My friends are all wankers who fuck up my home when I let them stay with me' threads.


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## girasol (Sep 27, 2010)

golightly said:


> It's pretty clear that, as a homeowner, you will not be eligible for housing benefit for another property.  It does start to look like you are trying to figure out how get money out of the state that you are not eligible for, but I don't think you are trying to do that.  My guess is that you want to know how you can live safely in your own home without being threatened and harrassed.  A couple of suggestions would be to rent your flat out to someone else and use the money to rent a flat elsewhere, or contact the Safer Neighbourhoods Team of the local Police on advice and support for dealing with threatening neighbours.  Someone may come along with better suggestions than I have.



But then would that just mean those bullies would harass someone else...  Why is it that it's always the bullied who has to move away?  It should be the other way around.  Call the police whenever they harass you, tell them they are threatening you, keep diaries.  There are two of them against one of you, that in itself very intimidating.

You say she has friends in the police?  If they are harassing you too, then go higher, and lodge a complaint.

So you have the option to stand up to them, or move away - but if you do rent it to someone else the same thing might happen again and again, and you'll be constantly having to get new tenants!


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## mr steev (Sep 27, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> I own my home outright (because of a medical negligence payout).  As such, I don't receive a penny in housing benefit or mortgage interest or any other state support for housing



And neither should you if you own your own home. You pay no rent, and I presume by saying that you own it outright, then you pay no mortgage either.



AnnO'Neemus said:


> I've checked the Shelter website and it does say that in certain circumstances it is possible to claim housing benefit for two homes and if they have to flee due to threat or violence or whatever. So if I still rented my home and if I was in receipt of housing benefit, it seems that I would be eligible to claim for a second lot of housing benefit on a different property. But it doesn't say what the score is if a person owns their home but is too scared to actually live in it and needs to live somewhere else. It's not clear what the rules are, whether they're the same as for people who rent, whether I could claim housing benefit for somewhere else, orwhetherthey'd turn round and say 'you own a property' you're not entitled to anything.



I really doubt that is as straight forward as you seem to imply. To be moved for your own safety is going to involve police and the courts, diaries of events, witnesses etc not just your word. You should contact the police, council etc. If you feel the police aren't helping then go higher.

Not wanting to be-little your circumstances re: harrassment, but it's a bit rich a home owner moaning they can't get benefits the same as people who don't own a home!


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## Jessiedog (Sep 27, 2010)

Hey Ann,

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

If you're _really desperate_ to move, I'll take the property off your hands .... tomorrow .... CASH!

Given the environment, shall we say GBP 38,888?


I'm willing to negotiate.





Woof


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## ymu (Sep 27, 2010)

You can either rent it out to pay your rent elsewhere, or sell it to buy somewhere else. If you sell it to rent elsewhere, you won't be eligible for any benefits at all because you'll have too much in the bank.

If you can rent elsewhere for less than the rent you can get for it, then you might be able to get a small mortgage to make it fit for renting out. But you will have to be careful about how the income affects your benefits. CAB can probably advise on this.


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## 1927 (Sep 27, 2010)

Why did you buy a council flat with such shit neighbours?


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## editor (Sep 27, 2010)

If you're getting harassed and are living in fear, then call the police and follow their advice. 

Expecting the state to bail you out and give you free money to rent out a second property is not a realistic or reasonable request.


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2010)

It's all made up bollocks anyway.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 27, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Yes. Renting the place out would also give us the opportunity for a whole new selection of 'I'm having a nightmare with my tenants' threads, which would make a change from the 'My friends are all wankers who fuck up my home when I let them stay with me' threads.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 27, 2010)

girasol said:


> But then would that just mean those bullies would harass someone else...  Why is it that it's always the bullied who has to move away?  It should be the other way around.  Call the police whenever they harass you, tell them they are threatening you, keep diaries.  There are two of them against one of you, that in itself very intimidating.
> 
> You say she has friends in the police?  If they are harassing you too, then go higher, and lodge a complaint.
> 
> So you have the option to stand up to them, or move away - but if you do rent it to someone else the same thing might happen again and again, and you'll be constantly having to get new tenants!


After having the police ringing my doorbell at 4am this morning, demanding to be let in (I'm guessing at her instigation, they refused to confirm), I've phoned and said I want to lodge a formal complaint and I'm waiting for an inspector to call me back.

I had already spoken with the housing trust who still own her flat.  I'd said that I felt trapped, because I can't afford to just move and rent somewhere else.  And I explained that my option - as you've suggested - is for me to rent out my flat and move somewhere else.  But then I explained to the housing officer that the problem with that plan is that if I use rental income from this flat to pay rent for me to live somewhere else, if she and her bf start giving my tenants grief and they just think 'Fuck this for a game of soldier's, we're off' (as they'd be well within their rights to, I wouldn't put up with this shit if I was renting from a private landlord), then my rental income would dry up and I'd be left with no tenants, and with no income, how would I pay my rent?  I'd end up in arrears for the rent I was supposed to be paying for somewhere else.  

Given the shit that her and her bf have caused me, and I'm fairly quiet and very considerate, if I rented it out to, say, 2-3 students (because they're all moving to town now), then I can't imagine that her and her bf would sit tight and be nice as pie, the first late night the students had I guess the police would turn up mob handed, and they'd just move out.

Like you said, I'd probably constantly be looking for new tenants, and it's not really fair on unsuspecting people to do that.  I had a problem about a year ago, but it had seemed to calm down, but now she seems to have kicked off again.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 27, 2010)

mr steev said:
			
		

> And neither should you if you own your own home. You pay no rent, and I presume by saying that you own it outright, then you pay no mortgage either.


Erm, you're saying this in a very challenging way as if you think you've caught me out or something.    I've been totally upfront and honest about my circumstances.  I was "fortunate"  enough to have an accident, to suffer from two botched operations and to be out of work for four years.  I filed a medical negligence claim and received compensation.  That wasn't some kind of 'lottery win' equivalent.  It was compensation for the loss of earnings, that I would have earned, if not for the medical negligence.  




			
				mr steev said:
			
		

> I really doubt that is as straight forward as you seem to imply. To be moved for your own safety is going to involve police and the courts, diaries of events, witnesses etc not just your word. You should contact the police, council etc. If you feel the police aren't helping then go higher.


Erm, where did I imply it was straightforward?   I think my whole point was that it's not straightforward.

As I explained above, a message has apparently been passed to an inspector and I'm waiting for them to get back to me.  I'm waiting for the housing officer to get back to me.  I'm waiting for the ASBO liaison officer to get back to me.  In the meantime, I'm just about to take some sleeping tablets that I've just got from my GP, because after being woken up at 4am by the police this morning, I've been feeling sick all day at the thought that her mates in the force might come back and harass me some more, like they've done before.




			
				mr steev said:
			
		

> Not wanting to be-little your circumstances re: harrassment, but it's a bit rich a home owner moaning they can't get benefits the same as people who don't own a home!


I think you're mistaking me for someone who was born with a silver spoon in their mouth.  As I've just said, I only own my flat because I was "lucky" enough to have an accident and then suffer from medical negligence, for which I received compensation.  I currently don't have an income with which to pay rent on alternative accommodation.

You've actually got it the wrong way round.  I'm not some kind of over-privileged home-owner moaning that they can't get benefits the same as people who don't owe their own home.  I'm someone who happens to own their home due to suffering from some misfortune, who is now suffering from a renewed campaign of intimidation and harassment from a neighbour after a gap of about a year, who just wants the same kind of opportunities to move away from the harassment and intimidation that a social housing tenant would get.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 27, 2010)

1927 said:


> Why did you buy a council flat with such shit neighbours?


Because lots of the other people on this estate are cool.  The previous neighbour who was shit moved out.  And this one seemed okay.  But then I spent a lot of time working away, so she got used to there being no noise in my flat, now anything and everything I do or my friends do, like occasionally visiting me at 6pm in the evening, or having dinner and playing some background music while chatting seems to freak her and her bf out.


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## ymu (Sep 27, 2010)

A social housing tenant wouldn't necessarily get that - certainly not easily. Someone in private accommodation paid for by housing benefit could just move and claim HB on a new place.

Yes, there's some twats on this thread who have not understood your situation. But you're not helping it with the language you're using, tbh.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 27, 2010)

editor said:


> If you're getting harassed and are living in fear, then call the police and follow their advice.
> 
> Expecting the state to bail you out and give you free money to rent out a second property is not a realistic or reasonable request.


Editor, I'm not expecting the state to bail me out and give me free money to rent out a second property in any kind of flippant way.  I'm being realistic and thinking that even if I manage to rent this place out to other people to generate an income to pay for me to live somewhere else, the likelihood of any tenants sticking around and paying any kind of rent to me on a long term basis... it's just not happening.  

I thought things had been resolved last time, about a year ago.  But she's started again.  No one's going to want to rent out this flat now unless I deceive prospective tenants and don't tell them what she and her bf are like.  But once they move in, and if they have a couple of mates round, and Mr Alphamale bf comes round to tell them to be quiet a few times, they'll just fuck off and leave me with no income...

I had the police waking me at 4am this morning.  Would you live in a flat like this, if you couldn't have friends round to visit, and you had to live on tiptoe all the time?  If you had the choice?  Would you pay me rent for 6-12 months?  Or would you just f'off and find somewhere else to live with no neighbour hassles?

So given that it's extremely unlikely that I'm going to be able to rent out this flat on a long-term basis, how do you propose I should pay rent on alternative accommodation, given that I'm not currently working and don't have an income?  

I'm not trying to take the piss.  I just don't want to live in a flat where I'm being harassed, but because I own it, I'm stuck here.

ETA: The first bit you wrote, about getting the police involved - she works for them in a civilian capacity, apparently.  She's already called them out previously against me around a year ago.  And I had them waking me up and ringing my doorbell at 4am this morning.  The plod are the last people I trust.


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## trashpony (Sep 27, 2010)

ymu is right - you're not doing yourself any favours. You have two choices:

1) You rent it out and then if your tenants get grief, then you have a really good stash of evidence to prove that it's not you, it's your neighbour that's being unreasonable. 

2) You stay and fight. If this woman has a friend on the force, ask for evidence. You want documented evidence from the noise abatement team that you were making enough noise to ruin their peace. 

Obviously the 3rd option is that you stay and don't fight but you're better than that. She cannot force you out however much she wants to. Don't let her/make her life hell with an endless stream of mucky students but don't keep pushing for something that isn't going to happen like it's unfair (HB)


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## invisibleplanet (Sep 27, 2010)

film the shouty neighbour


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

ymu said:


> You can either rent it out to pay your rent elsewhere [...]



Problem with this strategy is that you're relying on a trustworthy tenant paying their rent in order that you can pay your rent. If they miss a payment, so does Ann. Pitfalls.


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## trashpony (Sep 27, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Problem with this strategy is that you're relying on a trustworthy tenant paying their rent in order that you can pay your rent. If they miss a payment, so does Ann. Pitfalls.


 
Except if she gets tenants who get HB, then that gets paid straight to her? Biggish flats are really hard to find for people who get HB - you'd be doing a family a really big favour I think


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

Good point. Didn't think of that. Although there is a morality issue surrounding doing a family a 'favour' where you know there's a possibility they'll get grief.


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## trashpony (Sep 27, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Good point. Didn't think of that. Although there is a morality issue surrounding doing a family a 'favour' where you know there's a possibility they'll get grief.


 
I don't think they would though. I suspect that it's personal rather than anything else. (not saying that Ann has done anything to deserve that but it doesn't sound like she's a bad neighbour at all and presumably the psycho has lots of other neighbours)


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## scifisam (Sep 27, 2010)

You could warn the family. It's not certain that everyone will get grief, anyway. 

Housing Benefit is usually paid to the tenants these days, but they could request that it be paid directly to Ann.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

And perhaps they won't be so keen on bullying if there's more than one person.


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## scifisam (Sep 27, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> And perhaps they won't be so keen on bullying if there's more than one person.


 
Especially if one is a man.

It could be ideal - moving away would open up more options for work, too.


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## mr steev (Sep 28, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Erm, you're saying this in a very challenging way as if you think you've caught me out or something.


 
You stated that you don't pay rent, don't pay a mortgage and then went on to say that you don't get any help off the state - I was commenting on why would you need any help? you have no rent or mortgage to pay, iyswim.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 28, 2010)

Because she wants to move. And presumably keep hold of her property also. But they won't fork out housing benefit if she's sitting on assets.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 28, 2010)

trashpony said:


> I don't think they would though. I suspect that it's personal rather than anything else. (not saying that Ann has done anything to deserve that but it doesn't sound like she's a bad neighbour at all and presumably the psycho has lots of other neighbours)


What I did was a few months after she moved in I got a job that involved working away a lot, so I was hardly ever home, so as far as she is concerned 'normal' noise levels are absolute silence.  Now, since that contract ended and I started living here full time, just normal living seems to infuriate her and her bf - and also he apparently works shifts or some kind of anti-social hours, hence when my mates came to visit me at 6pm one evening she came out of her flat and confronted them on the stairs.

It seems that anything other than absolute silence is totally unreasonable.  Psycho doesn't have lots of other neighbours.  Not in that sense.  It's a block of three flats.  My flat is the only one directly above hers.  There are no other flats above her in this block.  There's a flat underneath her, but while noise obvious travels, it's not the ground floor neighbour that she's complaining about.  

We're talking about someone who called her mates from the police over to come and knock on my door when Lovely Lodger was here, at 9am on a Sunday morning, and the copper said that he'd just come up from her flat and "heard a noise that could be construed as banging".  Me and LL had been quietly chatting in bed with some music playing quietly in the background.  The cop didn't mention the music, so it obviously wasn't loud, wasn't a problem.  We wondered what on earth "heard a noise that could be construed as banging" was all about, but then we realised that LL had gone to the loo about 10-20 minutes before that, and he'd opened and closed the bathroom door.

She has totally unreasonable expectations for living in a block of flats - I'm apparently not allowed to have friends visiting at 6pm in the evening, because the heavy security door will wake up her shift-working, odd-hours sleeping bf.  Apparently, her bf did have a go at the other neighbour on the ground floor one day, for listening to the radio in the afternoon, because she was apparently working from home, doing some interpreting over the phone for the police. 

She apparently feels as though she's entitled to lay down the law as to exactly how people can live their lives and if you don't, then she'll call her police in to deal with you.

Honestly, this is generally a tolerant estate and there's a lot of give and take and people being understanding, when it comes to occasional parties and stuff (there's quite a lot of musicians and DJs).  She's got a zero tolerance not just to occasional music - again, when LL was here, another friend came home with us for dinner at about 9pm, and we were chatting over dinner with a bit of music on in the background and she sent her bf up, so it's not like I'm giving her cause to complain by throwing wild parties, three people eating dinner and chatting with a bit of music on the background, it's hardly outrageous anti-social behaviour, is it?  And apparently she's got a zero tolerance to people going to the bathroom and opening and closing the bathroom door.  I think she's also moaned about 'banging' when I was probably washing some pots and clattering about a bit in the kitchen.  Meanwhile, it's acceptable for her father and brother to come over and start doing her DIY and drilling and hammering at 8.30am in the morning.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 28, 2010)

trashpony said:


> Except if she gets tenants who get HB, then that gets paid straight to her? Biggish flats are really hard to find for people who get HB - you'd be doing a family a really big favour I think


I wouldn't be doing a family a really big favour.  At all.  I'm a single person and I actually live in a really quiet and considerate way.  For example, when I moved into my flat, I could tell that the previous tenant had their telly on an internal wall next to the adjacent block (because there was a dark mark on the wall where it had been), but I thought that was too close and might disturb that neighbour, so I've always had my telly on the other side of the room.  

If downstairs neighbour and her bf cannot tolerate me just pottering about and occasionally having a few friends round for dinner or whatever (in fact, I haven't had any friends round for dinner since then, I'm actually really compromising my lifestyle), then they're going to go absolutely apeshit if a family moves in and there are kids running around.  

It's actually something I've been concerned about regarding the prospect of fostering.  I got a phone message a couple of weeks ago from a private fostering agency, I'd answered an ad a couple of months ago, they've got back to me recently asking if I'm still interested in fostering.

There's no way a child could live in this flat with her and her bf as downstairs neighbours.  They've called the police on me several times.  Most recently the night before last.  Well, I know it was them the previous times, I'm assuming it was them the night before last, I don't know for sure, because it was 4am and I refused to let the police in.  

You can't raise children in an environment where you're constantly on edge that the slightest bit of 'normal' living noise might result in a visit from the police.


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## girasol (Sep 28, 2010)

It seems all this grief is being caused by bad sound proofing.  Cheap bastards, they don't give a shit about quality of life when building flats.  How old is your block?

When I lived in a council block, it didn't take much moving upstairs to make a lot of noise, it got a lot worse when they took out the carpets and put some 'floorboards' down... (I did nearly kick their door down when, for the 3rd night in a row, they had really loud music on at 2 in the morning on a school night, as did another neighbour on a different night)

My point is, the solution might be to soundproof your flat.  Someone somewhere might know of cheap ways of doing this...  Talk to your neighbours, it's not your fault it's the walls/floors are so thin...  Although, to be fair, they might be quite ignorant, if they start calling the policy and harassing you, and don't realise it's the quality of the building that may be at fault.


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## trashpony (Sep 28, 2010)

I think you need to talk to the noise abatement team. What she's doing is tantamount to harassment and you have the right to enjoy your home without let or hindrance (or something like that). You can prove that she's being unreasonable, however many mates she has on the force.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 28, 2010)

mr steev said:


> You stated that you don't pay rent, don't pay a mortgage and then went on to say that you don't get any help off the state - I was commenting on why would you need any help? you have no rent or mortgage to pay, iyswim.


Because I don't have any rent or mortgage to pay *on this flat* where I'm currently being harassed and intimidated by a neighbour and her bf.  But if I have to move to live somewhere else due to fears for my safety - and I do fear for my safety - then I have no way of paying for alternative accommodation.  I was woken up at 4am in the morning by the police, presumably called by her, she's called them against me before, she works for the police in a civilian capacity and seemingly 'phones a friend' when she feels like it.  I didn't want to come home last night, I didn't want to sleep here, in case the police came back, in case they had a warrant for something, in case they arrested me.  I'm actually really frightened.  I had to get some sleeping tablets from my GP yesterday to knock me out last night.  

I can't carry on living like this.  But I don't have any money to pay rent to live somewhere else.  Yes, I own my flat.  But I'm being harassed and intimidated out of it by a neighbour who has the police on her side*.  I'm too scared to live here, but I can't afford to live anywhere else.  What's so hard to understand about that?   

* Apparently, another neighbour on another street lives next to someone with a huge fuck off sound system who was blasting it out at 2-3am in the morning.  She called the police and was told they don't respond to noise nuisance, it's a civilian matter, and they recommended she call the council.  Given that official police policy is apparently not to respond to noise nuisance calls, even if it's a massive sound system blasting out at stupid o'clock in the morning, how come I get woken up by the police at 4am?  How come I get the police turning up at my place at 9am in the morning, to complain about someone opening and closing a bathroom door?  How come I get the police turning up at my place to arrest and assault me at about 1am in the morning, when I was playing a bit of music after coming home from a night out? (It's not like I have loads of wild parties and do that a lot, and like I said, the rest of the estate is very laissez faire about occasional noise, so long as no one takes the piss.)

I'm sick of being harassed by her and her police mates.  But I don't have any money to pay rent to live somewhere else.


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## invisibleplanet (Sep 28, 2010)

Film the abuse she gives you on the stairs - get a friend to film the abuse as you walk out onto the stairs. If she's habitual with it (although it seems you had a respite for around a year) it shouldn't be too difficult to guess when it will happen again.

Also, since you never found out what the police were at your door for, you're making assumptions that your bad neighbour called the police on you.

Grow a thicker skin, Ann. You've done nothing wrong, so get a friend to film them being unreasonable and stand your ground.
Stop being so bloody paz about the police - they're probably annoyed at their time being wasted by your bad neighbour.

1am is considered to be the limit where noise from other flats is concerned, so don't play music past this hour without having neighbours agree that you can party later. This is what my lovely police told me, when I had problems with the bad neighbours downstairs (which i already explained to you in some detail).


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## invisibleplanet (Sep 28, 2010)

girasol said:


> It seems all this grief is being caused by bad sound proofing.  Cheap bastards, they don't give a shit about quality of life when building flats.  How old is your block?
> 
> When I lived in a council block, it didn't take much moving upstairs to make a lot of noise, it got a lot worse when they took out the carpets and put some 'floorboards' down... (I did nearly kick their door down when, for the 3rd night in a row, they had really loud music on at 2 in the morning on a school night, as did another neighbour on a different night)
> 
> My point is, the solution might be to soundproof your flat.  Someone somewhere might know of cheap ways of doing this...  Talk to your neighbours, it's not your fault it's the walls/floors are so thin...  Although, to be fair, they might be quite ignorant, if they start calling the policy and harassing you, and don't realise it's the quality of the building that may be at fault.


 
All good stuff, and the type of thing which is also good to discuss sympathetically with police.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 28, 2010)

girasol said:


> It seems all this grief is being caused by bad sound proofing.  Cheap bastards, they don't give a shit about quality of life when building flats.  How old is your block?
> 
> When I lived in a council block, it didn't take much moving upstairs to make a lot of noise, it got a lot worse when they took out the carpets and put some 'floorboards' down... (I did nearly kick their door down when, for the 3rd night in a row, they had really loud music on at 2 in the morning on a school night, as did another neighbour on a different night)
> 
> My point is, the solution might be to soundproof your flat.  Someone somewhere might know of cheap ways of doing this...  Talk to your neighbours, it's not your fault it's the walls/floors are so thin...  Although, to be fair, they might be quite ignorant, if they start calling the policy and harassing you, and don't realise it's the quality of the building that may be at fault.


It's not a new build.  It's about sixty years old and it's solid in comparison with new builds.  Solid concrete floor.  The walls between this and the adjacent block are fairly solid as well.  I know some of my neighbours have installed wooden floors, but my flat is carpeted throughout (except for the kitchen and bathroom), so it's already pretty much as soundproofed as it can be.  

Laying expensive acoustic underlay isn't an option, because (a) I don't currently have the money for it and (b) I don't see why I should go to exorbitant expense because she's being totally unreasonable.  I mean, complaining about a bathroom door opening and closing ffs.


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## girasol (Sep 28, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> It's not a new build.  It's about sixty years old and it's solid in comparison with new builds.  Solid concrete floor.  The walls between this and the adjacent block are fairly solid as well.  I know some of my neighbours have installed wooden floors, but my flat is carpeted throughout (except for the kitchen and bathroom), so it's already pretty much as soundproofed as it can be.
> 
> Laying expensive acoustic underlay isn't an option, because (a) I don't currently have the money for it and (b) I don't see why I should go to exorbitant expense because she's being totally unreasonable.  I mean, complaining about a bathroom door opening and closing ffs.


 
But if they can hear the bathroom door opening/closing then the sound proofing isn't really very good is it?  And, no, of course you shouldn't spend a lot of money on sound proofing, but my point is, this isn't your fault, i.e. that the sound travels even if you're just doing normal stuff, so they shouldn't be taking it out on you.


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## Jessiedog (Sep 28, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> After having the police ringing my doorbell at 4am this morning, demanding to be let in (I'm guessing at her instigation, they refused to confirm), I've phoned and said I want to lodge a formal complaint and I'm waiting for an inspector to call me back.
> 
> I had already spoken with the housing trust who still own her flat.  I'd said that I felt trapped, because I can't afford to just move and rent somewhere else.  And I explained that my option - as you've suggested - is for me to rent out my flat and move somewhere else.  But then I explained to the housing officer that the problem with that plan is that if I use rental income from this flat to pay rent for me to live somewhere else, if she and her bf start giving my tenants grief and they just think 'Fuck this for a game of soldier's, we're off' (as they'd be well within their rights to, I wouldn't put up with this shit if I was renting from a private landlord), then my rental income would dry up and I'd be left with no tenants, and with no income, how would I pay my rent?  I'd end up in arrears for the rent I was supposed to be paying for somewhere else.
> 
> ...


 




> I had the police waking me at 4am this morning. Would you live in a flat like this, if you couldn't have friends round to visit, and you had to live on tiptoe all the time? If you had the choice? Would you pay me rent for 6-12 months? Or would you just f'off and find somewhere else to live with no neighbour hassles?




Given this, how does GBP 33,888 sound?


I do appreciate your concerns and also think that the law is on your side. You need to tough it out until it's proven that you're not being unreasonable (the cops can't be corrupt forever, after all).

In the meantime, though, I can't see why you should receive any further public money.

Seriously, Ann, the solution to your situation lies with the local council or the cops (go higher if necessary,) not with the public purse.


G'luck!



Woof


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## lighterthief (Sep 29, 2010)

invisibleplanet said:


> 1am is considered to be the limit where noise from other flats is concerned, so don't play music past this hour without having neighbours agree that you can party later. This is what my lovely police told me, when I had problems with the bad neighbours downstairs (which i already explained to you in some detail).


1am?  Unless you are having a one-off party this is waaaay too late in a residential environment IMO.  Our lease contained the provision that residents were entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of their property between 11pm and 7am, which seems a bit fairer.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 29, 2010)

lighterthief said:


> 1am?  Unless you are having a one-off party this is waaaay too late in a residential environment IMO.  Our lease contained the provision that residents were entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of their property between 11pm and 7am, which seems a bit fairer.


I agree with you lighterthief, 11pm is reasonable, but that's generally speaking.  I wouldn't object if neighbours occasionally had a few mates round or a bit of a party that went on till stupid o'clock.  I really don't have a problem with that, and I don't think other people should have a problem with that either.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2010)

As long as it isn't a school night and not full weekend ordeals every week then yeah, people should be allowed to have some fun in their home with friends and music etc.


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## Part 2 (Sep 29, 2010)

Ann. I do find this rather bizarre. I'm fairly sure I know your estate and I know of people who live there. 

I always had a picture of the flats as being quite a solid community, tenants there seems a very supportive bunch.

What do your neighbours think of the problems you're having?


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 29, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> Ann. I do find this rather bizarre. I'm fairly sure I know your estate and I know of people who live there.
> 
> I always had a picture of the flats as being quite a solid community, tenants there seems a very supportive bunch.
> 
> What do your neighbours think of the problems you're having?


There is a quite solid community, people tend to be very tolerant and accepting of different lifestyles.  For example, the DJ in the next block whose 'duff duff duff duff duff duff duff duff' music for hours on end every now again in the middle of the afternoon used to drive me nuts, and he sometimes had mates round at stupid o'clock in the morning once in a blue moon, playing 'duff duff duff duff duff duff duff duff' music till stupid o'clock.  This is the kind of place where people don't really blink about that kind of occasional 'nuisance' it's considered part and parcel of living in a vibrant, tolerant community.

I'm on an end block, so not really any other neighbours affected, apart from one in the same block, and apparently her Alphamale bf went downstairs and _told _him to turn his radio off in the afternoon.  Again, it's the Alphamale aggressive issuing orders, throwing their weight around.  T'other neighbour, a real sweetie, apparently said No.  (He doesn't respond to macho bullshit.)  But then Alphamale bf explained that his gf was doing some work from home for the police as an interpreter and she was on the phone at the moment, and the radio was too loud and would he turn it down.  Of course, having been asked reasonable and nicely, he acquiesced.  But Alphamale bf seems to have that same attitude prevalent of their mates in the police, i.e. they don't discuss a problem and how it's affecting them and ask nicely, they go in with their size 10s, throw their weight around and demand that other people do stuff, like turn off their radio, turn off their stereo, stop having visitors who go to and fro through the main security doors.

I've mainly been on the receiving end of hostilities because I live above her and she's totally intolerant and has totally unreasonable expectations about living in a flat.  

But I've taken it up with our tenants association as well.  The housing trust are dealing with it, the housing manager has referred it to the ASBO liaison person.  And I've formally complained to the police.  And a friend recommended a law firm that specialises in actions against the police.

Just wondering how hard and invincible her and her police mates are going to be feeling when they have a police inspector breathing down their neck and asking why did the police attend at my flat at 4am in the morning recently? And why did they attend at 9am on a Sunday morning when me an a friend were quietly sitting in bed and chatting?  It's going to be interesting to hear the police (and their) justifications for such bollocks.


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## Part 2 (Sep 29, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> But I've taken it up with our tenants association as well.  The housing trust are dealing with it, the housing manager has referred it to the ASBO liaison person.  And I've formally complained to the police.  And a friend recommended a law firm that specialises in actions against the police.
> 
> Just wondering how hard and invincible her and her police mates are going to be feeling when they have a police inspector breathing down their neck and asking why did the police attend at my flat at 4am in the morning recently? And why did they attend at 9am on a Sunday morning when me an a friend were quietly sitting in bed and chatting?  It's going to be interesting to hear the police (and their) justifications for such bollocks.


 
Well it sounds like you're doing the right thing for now. 

Seems like you'll have to sit tight and hope it gets sorted sooner rather than later. Good luck.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2010)

It's a double-edged sword for the woman though. She may be able to get mates in uniform round but it could easily backfire employment-wise if she's found using them as her personal enforcers over non-existent noise complaints.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 30, 2010)

Jessiedog said:


> ...I do appreciate your concerns and also think that the law is on your side. You need to tough it out until it's proven that you're not being unreasonable (the cops can't be corrupt forever, after all).
> 
> *In the meantime, though, I can't see why you should receive any further public money.*
> 
> Seriously, Ann, the solution to your situation lies with the local council or the cops (go higher if necessary,) not with the public purse.


I don't get why there's such a weirdly hostile reaction.

I don't own my flat because I'm some rich banker who could afford to pay for their property outright.

I own my flat because I had an accident and suffered botched operations and got some compensation for medical negligence.

If I hadn't had that accident and botched operations, I would have still been renting this flat, I would have been receiving housing benefit.  And in those circumstances, I would have been entitled to request a transfer to alternative accommodation.  And I would also have been entitled to receive housing benefit not only on this flat, but also on alternative accommodation, yes, that's right, if I were still a tenant in social housing, I would have been entitled to two lots of housing benefit, one on this home and one on somewhere safe to live while the harassment situation was being resolved.  

Given that a social housing tenant would be entitled to *two* lots of housing benefit in this kind of scenario I'm very surprised at the vitriol that's being heaped my way because I'd just like one lot of housing benefit to pay for safe and secure alternative accommodation while this harassment situation gets resolved.  I'm not asking for *more* than someone who rents social housing would get - two lots of housing benefit - I'm actually asking for *less* - i.e. I'd just like to be able to go and live somewhere else for a while where I'm not having to take sleeping tablets to get to sleep, and I'm not sitting here terrified that me having sent them away, that they're not going to come back with some cooked up warrant.

I've already been wrongfully arrested and assaulted by the police once.   They've called at my flat on other occasions at her instigation.  

How many of you would be prepared to live in those circumstances?  Or wouldn't you be wondering:  There has to be some kind of help in the system somewhere for people like me, who aren't social housing tenants, but who don't have loads of money to pay for alternative accommodation?  

I cannot understand why someone who is a social housing tenant who is in receipt of housing benefit, but who gets harassed and intimidated, is then entitled to a second lot of housing benefit for alternative safe and secure accommodation = housing benefit x 2

Whereas someone who is a home owner who doesn't receive housing benefit (but who has no income and no other assets), who gets harassed and intimidated, is then entitled to the square root of absolutely fuck all to find alternative safe and secure accommodation.  

So if you're already on housing benefit, here have some more, have twice as much!  If you're not, well, fuck off, you can't have any, y'know all that harassment and intimidation you're on the receiving end of?  Well, suck it up, because you're a home-owner and therefore some kind of over-privileged cunt so you probably deserve it, you certainly don't deserve any help moving to somewhere safer where you won't be harassed and intimidated, no, because if you own your own home, urban says you're an over-privileged cunt who's being a cheeky bastard asking for state handouts.  

Btw, what's the urban verdict on people who are social tenants who are receiving housing benefit but who are being harassed and intimidated, and who get moved to a place of safety and for a while (until the situation is resolved) end up getting two lots of housing benefit, one lot for their home, which they're being harassed and intimidated out of, and one for their place of safety?  

Would they also be cheeky bastards looking for state handouts?  Or would they be sturdy working class folk finding themselves victim of unfortunate circumstances and of course entitled to assistance from the safety net that is the welfare state?


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## wtfftw (Sep 30, 2010)

You have a safety net of owning a home. That is a fuckton more security than people on housing benefit have. You can move home (probably not getting the price you'd want for your home).

I have every sympathy for your situation with your neighbours and police and feeling vulnerable in your home but this thread is really starting to bother me now.


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## tarannau (Sep 30, 2010)

No disrespect Ann, but there rarely seems to be a time when you're not having one trouble or other. If it's not smokers, apparently puffing away in their own house, but making your life unbearable (causing another nearly forced move thread iirc), it's a succession of lodgers who apparently take the piss with unfailing regularity.

In this case, I can't help but feel that you haven't done that much to help yourself. If some police bod was hammering on my door at 5 in the morning without good reason and no warrant then you can be certain I'd be complaining down the station and demanding action. Especially if it had happened before.  Make complaints back about the neighbours and stand your ground before talking about moving (again). You basically want someone else to come to you rescue with minimal action from yourself, whether that be an individual or state body

I know it's not easy, but you seem to need to break this pattern of meekness and capitulation.


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## scifisam (Sep 30, 2010)

Ann, FFS, a social housing tenant WOULD NOT get two lots of housing benefit - and 'social housing tenant' is not the same as 'tenant on housing benefit.' I've had hassle from a neighbour too - much, much more serious hassle than you - and I was a social housing tenant who did happen to be on benefits, and I couldn't get extra money any more than you could. 

Your cite is about a teeny tiny number of people in extremis being given a discretionary payment; if you had gone through the courts and been moved _at the court's recommendation_ then you would be just as likely to get a discretionary housing benefit payment. That's not going to happen because, as bad as what you're going through is, it's nowhere near bad enough for any court to say 'it would be unsafe for her to continue living there.' 

Seriously, I have sympathy for your situation and you can see that from my other posts, but please stop acting as though people with fewer assets than you are better off. It's really offensive.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 30, 2010)

wtfftw said:


> You have a safety net of owning a home. That is a fuckton more security than people on housing benefit have. You can move home (probably not getting the price you'd want for your home).


Firstly, you're making a fuckton of incorrect assumptions about me.  I never wanted to sell my home.  I never bought my home with the intention of 'moving up the property ladder' and making obscene amounts of profit.  I bought my home to actually live in, y'know, what homes are actually for.  And I have some neighbours who are actually lovely and overall it is (was) a great place to live.  I don't have to justify myself to you, but there's at least one of my neighbours who also posts on urban, and he knows why I bought my home and he knows my motivations, and your assumptions are wrong on all counts.  Except that if I was forced to sell up due to being harassed and intimidated out of my home, then, yes, I would get a reduced price for it, which no doubt you'll be gleeful about, but which would leave me in the predicament of then being homeless, and not having enough money to buy somewhere else to live.  And if you can find something to laugh and smile about in someone ending up in that predicament, then you're a prick.  

You're really not getting the point about me being harassed and intimidated are you? 

It's not much "security" if you're scared the police are going to come kicking your door in. 

And you do, realise, don't you, that in this day and age there is a legal obligation on the vendor of a property to disclose all neighbour nuisance problems?  How many people do you think might be interested in buying a flat where:  

(a) your friends and visitors get accosted in the stairwell if they have the audacity to visit you at 6pm on a weekday evening?  

(b) you can't have friends round for dinner, because if you happen to have a friend staying and then invite *one* more person back for some supper one night, and you're playing some music and chatting normally - so it's not a wild party, and the music isn't that loud because you're having a normal conversation - so there's a grand total of *three* people having a meal and chatting normally with some music playing in the background, but you get her sending her Alphamale bf knocking on your door like some kind of Rottweiler, not being polite, being very aggressive.

(c) you're at risk of wrongful arrest and assault by the police when the neighbour in the flat below who works for the police in a civilian capacity calls her buddies 

(d) you're at risk of the police coming and knocking on your door at 9am in the morning on a Sunday, complaining about "banging" when you've been in bed chatting and there's been no banging, except someone went to the loo a few minutes ago and opened and closed the bathroom door

(e) you're at risk of the police coming and ringing your doorbell incessantly at about 4am in the morning, when you were fast asleep, for no apparent good reason.

All that is relevant, disclosable information when it comes to selling a property, I would have to disclose that information to any potential buyers.  Who do you think is going to want to buy my flat with that on its records?  Well, perhaps one of her police mates... but no one with a family is going to want to run the risk of moving into a flat and then having loads of hassle from a neighbour and her police mates.


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## scifisam (Sep 30, 2010)

Why do you think people are making those assumptions about you? 

FFS, Ann, if social housing tenants on housing benefit really have it so much better, then sell up, give all your money away and become one.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Sep 30, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Ann, FFS, a social housing tenant WOULD NOT get two lots of housing benefit - and 'social housing tenant' is not the same as 'tenant on housing benefit.' I've had hassle from a neighbour too - much, much more serious hassle than you - and I was a social housing tenant who did happen to be on benefits, and I couldn't get extra money any more than you could.
> 
> Your cite is about a teeny tiny number of people in extremis being given a discretionary payment; if you had gone through the courts and been moved _at the court's recommendation_ then you would be just as likely to get a discretionary housing benefit payment. That's not going to happen because, as bad as what you're going through is, it's nowhere near bad enough for any court to say 'it would be unsafe for her to continue living there.'
> 
> Seriously, I have sympathy for your situation and you can see that from my other posts, but please stop acting as though people with fewer assets than you are better off. It's really offensive.


Well, excuse me!  I was just going off what I read about people who were being harrassed and intimidated who were entitled to continue receiving housing benefit while that problem was resolved, but they were also entitled to receive housing benefit for safe and secure accommodation in the meantime.  So FFS! scifisam, people on housing benefit *CAN* in certain circumstances, receive two lots of housing benefit. 

And I'm not saying people with fewer assets are better off.  I'm saying that I'm worse off and I just want parity, I want to be able to get away from this flat, because at the moment, I'm on sleeping tablets and I'M ON THE VERGE OF HAVING A FUCKING NERVOUS BREAKDOWN IF I CAN'T GET AWAY FROM MY NEIGHBOUR AND HER POLICE PALS WHO ARE HARASSING AND INTIMIDATING ME.  People can't seem to get that I'm not asking for *more* than people in that situation (who get two lots of housing benefit).  I'm asking for *less* (just one lot of housing benefit).  

You think that's offensive scifisam?  I actually find it really fucking offensive that the fact that I randomly happen to own my home* seems to tap into some urban class bias and allows people to effectively say to me:  So what if you're being harassed and intimidated, so what if someone in receipt of housing benefit would be able to run away from the harassment and intimidation and would be able to get housing benefit for somewhere safe and secure to live... Urban finds you guilty of offences under the class war prohibitions of owning your own home, so therefore you're not entitled to be able to run away and get help finding somewhere to live where you won't be harassed and intimidated.  

I'VE BEEN HAVING SUICIDAL THOUGHTS ABOUT BEING TRAPPED IN A FLAT AND HAVING NO ONE TO TURN TO, BECAUSE THE POLICE ARE HER FRIENDS AND SHE'S BEEN CALLING THEM ROUND TO HARASS ME.  I'VE BEEN DESPERATELY THINKING ABOUT FINDING A WAY TO GET OUT OF THIS FLAT AND GET AWAY FROM THE HARASSMENT AND INTIMIDATION, AND YOU'RE JUST COMING OVER ALL FUCKING CLASS WARRIOR ABOUT HOW PRIVILEGED I AM AND HOW OFFENSIVE I AM.  WELL, I'M SORRY IF MY BEING THE VICTIM OF HARASSMENT AND INTIMIDATION OFFENDS YOU.  YOU'RE A FUCKING HEARTLESS BITCH!


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## wtfftw (Sep 30, 2010)

Oh calm the fuck down. You're the one making assumptions. You said earlier your place wasn't in a fit state to sell - I think it would be sellable at a rate below it's value to someone better equiped to handle your neighbours. How you came to own a home and whether you want to sell it is irrelevant. 
It's not an ideal situation, but then neither is harassment etc etc.


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## tarannau (Sep 30, 2010)

All those words Ann, and you barely bother to respond to points made by others. This poor me, do nothing victim complex is a little too wearing. 

You have options and the chance to pursue this matter, the harrassment seems to be fairly sporadic and you certainly have legal comeback if warrant carded police come to your house under dubious pretences again and again. FWIW, from your reports, it seems if the police have visited our pad more than yours in the past year (to try and serve a warrant to an ex lodger). It doesn't seem very effective or determined harrassment by police standards, and I say that as Brixton resident who's got plenty of distaste and experience of bad police

I know it's hard, but you do seem to be making this out as something more insurmountable than it is. Complain about the neighbours, make a stand and investigate who and why the bleeding hell it's necessary for officers to come round at 5am. She has her job to lose at the end of the day if she's making vexatious complaints and wasting everyone's time. People make unreasonable complaints about noise - let them call the council people out and make pillocks out of themselves and so on.

You make you own bed to a certain extent, and it's not about feeling hard done-by, it's about taking steps to change things.


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## marty21 (Sep 30, 2010)

working in social housing - it's difficult for social housing tenants to get a move because of harassment - they can't just roll up to the Housing Officer and ask for a move because someone is harassing them - thje general rule of thumb is to take action against the perpetrator. This is a long drawn out process with long odds on a successful outcome, and you ahve to get the victim to be prepared to give evidence, and other witnesses too, if you get to court.

I think you have been in contact with the Housing Office - get in contact with your local councillor/mp is you feel that the HA is dragging its feet on this.


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## scifisam (Sep 30, 2010)

You were already informed that your cite was wrong, earlier in the thread. You've just been informed the same again. Yet you continue making the same wrong claim about tenants on housing benefit. Why?

I'm sorry you're feeling suicidal; I hope you go back to your GP, because 'I keep getting told off for being noisy' is NOT a usual reason for wanting to end your life. And yes, that is all that's been happening to you. It isn't pleasant and you shouldn't have to put up with it, but it's not the end of the world. 

My upstairs neighbour has reported me to the housing association for being noisy too - the twats bang on the ceiling to complain about the noise of _typing_. No, it's not the police, but the housing association could evict me, theoretically. I'm a social housing tenant. Do you really think I could waltz up and demand a new place to live and extra money for it? No, because it's not actually that big a deal. 

I'm not acting like a class warrior. Shouting that doesn't make it true.


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## marty21 (Sep 30, 2010)

If I was dealing with this sort of situation, the first thing I'd do after hearing the report (providing the victim was ok with it)  would be to visit the perpetrators - has anyone actually had a word with them yet?


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## susie12 (Sep 30, 2010)

> If you're getting harassed and are living in fear, then call the police and follow their advice.
> 
> Expecting the state to bail you out and give you free money to rent out a second property is not a realistic or reasonable request.


 This.


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## Teaboy (Sep 30, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> I'VE BEEN HAVING SUICIDAL THOUGHTS ABOUT BEING TRAPPED IN A FLAT AND HAVING NO ONE TO TURN TO, BECAUSE THE POLICE ARE HER FRIENDS AND SHE'S BEEN CALLING THEM ROUND TO HARASS ME.  I'VE BEEN DESPERATELY THINKING ABOUT FINDING A WAY TO GET OUT OF THIS FLAT AND GET AWAY FROM THE HARASSMENT AND INTIMIDATION,


 
Having bad neigbours is shit and unfortunatly all to common.  Only 2 choices really, stay and fight or cut and run.  Only you know how much of this shit you can take.  Personally I'd sell and buy somewhere else nearby, lifes to short for this shit and you sound like you're getting very close to the tipping point.


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## Looby (Sep 30, 2010)

marty21 said:


> working in social housing - it's difficult for social housing tenants to get a move because of harassment - they can't just roll up to the Housing Officer and ask for a move because someone is harassing them - thje general rule of thumb is to take action against the perpetrator. This is a long drawn out process with long odds on a successful outcome, and you ahve to get the victim to be prepared to give evidence, and other witnesses too, if you get to court.
> 
> I think you have been in contact with the Housing Office - get in contact with your local councillor/mp is you feel that the HA is dragging its feet on this.


 
Ann- you were told all this on the first couple of pages of this thread but you haven't listened. 

I get the impression that not much has actually happened recently apart from the visit the other morning. 

Spell it out for us-since the harrassment started again, how many incidents have there been and what happened. You are still talking about incidents from when not so lovely lodger was there which was yonks ago wasn't it?

People have been trying to help you on this thread but the only answer you want is yes you should get housing benefit so you can move. You seem to be lashing out because no-one agrees.


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## sheothebudworths (Sep 30, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> Ann- you were told all this on the first couple of pages of this thread but you haven't listened.
> 
> I get the impression that not much has actually happened recently apart from the visit the other morning.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah this - and it's really not in the slightest bit relevant whether or not people agree, given that it's not an option, so start focusing on solutions that _are_ actual options instead of banging on and on about this one pointless issue.


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## Jessiedog (Oct 2, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> I don't get why there's such a weirdly hostile reaction.
> 
> I don't own my flat because I'm some rich banker who could afford to pay for their property outright.
> 
> ...


 
I'm not being hostile _nor_ vindictive, Ann.

But having read your last few posts, I _do_ think you need to (re)visit your doctor (and explain all this to him/her - speaking your posts on this thread to him/her, very quickly).

Though I can't see why you should receive extra public money when you're sitting on an asset worth GBP 38,888:00.

(That's a cash offer, mind?)


Please take care of yourself.


Woof


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## toggle (Oct 2, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> I get the impression that not much has actually happened recently apart from the visit the other morning.
> 
> Spell it out for us-since the harrassment started again, how many incidents have there been and what happened. You are still talking about incidents from when not so lovely lodger was there which was yonks ago wasn't it?



I think the position ann is in is that she recognises the incidents happening now as similar to the start of a campaign of abuse that has been directed at her before by the same person. this campaign caused her a great deal of distress and she is terrified it will happen again the same way. 

I wonder what would ahppen if she got on to the police and council's anti social behavior unit and pushed this as harassment because of her disability. I know she dosen't like to see aspbergers as a disability, but I think it is recognised as such. would this make the authorities take the harassment more seriously?


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## LilMissHissyFit (Oct 2, 2010)

scifisam said:


> It doesn't matter if your flat's a bit run down, it's a three-bedroom place; if you're willing to accept tenants on housing benefit then you'll be able to rent it out just like that and rent a 1 or 2 bedroom place for yourself. It might be nice to get a fresh start like that anyway.
> 
> FWIW, social housing tenants have HUGE difficulty being moved for any reason and housing benefit would only be paid on two properties in very exceptional circumstances. You're not underprivileged due to owning property.


 

usually HB is only paid on two properties for short periods in very particular circumstances... such as a family living in a refuge, having left in a hurry...

Ann, you wont be entitled to housing benefit... end of. You own your place.
You can rent it out and move, if you believe YOU are the cause/target this might be helpful- if you can get reliable tennants this may be a good solution, esp if they arent likely to get harrassed.
Or you can tackle it through the correct channels, calling the police, keeping records, contacting the neighbours landlord and council anti social behaviour unit.


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## pengaleng (Oct 3, 2010)

if you bought a council property on an estate then surely you knew about the local wildlife already?


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## 1927 (Oct 3, 2010)

tribal_princess said:


> if you bought a council property on an estate then surely you knew about the local wildlife already?


 
Exactly!

Ann needs to grow a pair and instead of the woe is me attitude needs to start using the police and authorities to her benefit. She has boiught her own flat and the bottom line is hs ehas made her bed etc. If its all to much for her she'll have to decide whether its worth it to her to just move out and lose it all. She wouldnt be the first person who has had to take that route, but atleast her flat is paid for, there are lots of people who have to make the decision to move out whoe are still paying mortgages.


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## invisibleplanet (Oct 3, 2010)

lighterthief said:


> 1am?  Unless you are having a one-off party this is waaaay too late in a residential environment IMO.  Our lease contained the provision that residents were entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of their property between 11pm and 7am, which seems a bit fairer.


 
We have a mutually agreed 11pm rule for schoolnights (Sun-Thurs) but Friday/Saturday is fine until 1am without any need to tell each other. After 1pm, then we've mutually agreed to tell each other that we're having a party. 

I was telling you the point at which the police said (to me) that they would step in to ask the neighbours to turn it down.


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## sheothebudworths (Oct 3, 2010)

invisibleplanet said:


> We have a mutually agreed 11pm rule for schoolnights (Sun-Thurs) but Friday is fine until 1am without any need to tell each other. After 1pm, then we've mutually agreed to tell each other that we're having a party.
> 
> I was telling you the point at which the police said (to me) that they would step in to ask the neighbours to turn it down.


 
I think the standard (local council/noise abatement set..) rule is 11pm, tbf (and 8am start, iirc...maybe 9am at weekends?).


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## invisibleplanet (Oct 3, 2010)

Ann - I've already said that the best way to get some proof of the abuse is to film your neighbours (get a friend to do this) harrassing you or giving you abuse. 

Once that's been done, no-one will be on your neighbour's side. 
It worked for us here at invisibleplanet towers, and it will work for you. We've now enjoyed two months of harrassment free living, and before the assholes were evicted, I was always concerned about leaving my son alone in the flat and constantly thought of new places to move to (even though I was not in the position to be able to do so). 

So film them, and then you have the evidence you need to take the next step against them. Without proof, you're not in a strong position.


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## sheothebudworths (Oct 3, 2010)

I was wondering if you can get a REVERSE noise assessment monitor thing...I know they'd usually measure volume in your own place, _coming from somewhere else_...but would it be possible (and/or worth) to ask for one in your own flat to monitor _your own_ noise levels, if that's an accusation that's being regularly made?
Might be worth contacting your councils noise abatement team and asking, Ann.


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## marty21 (Oct 3, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Ann, FFS, a social housing tenant WOULD NOT get two lots of housing benefit -.



actually it is possible for a social housing tenant to get the rent paid on two tenancies for a limited time - if they have to move for harassment etc, it's for a limited period though.


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## toggle (Oct 3, 2010)

1927 said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Ann needs to grow a pair


 
what a charming way to speak to a woman living on her own, being bullied and harassed by neighbours.


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## Looby (Oct 3, 2010)

toggle said:


> I think the position ann is in is that she recognises the incidents happening now as similar to the start of a campaign of abuse that has been directed at her before by the same person. this campaign caused her a great deal of distress and she is terrified it will happen again the same way.



I totally get that but the council/police cannot do anything about a fear of possible incidents. Yes this neighbour has been vile to Ann but it doesn't seem like she has recently and other than the police at the door nothing seems to have happened.

In all seriousness, wtf is anyone supposed to do? We don't even know if the visit was anything at all to do with this neighbour.


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## scifisam (Oct 3, 2010)

marty21 said:


> actually it is possible for a social housing tenant to get the rent paid on two tenancies for a limited time - if they have to move for harassment etc, it's for a limited period though.


 
Yup, I'm sure it is _possible_, but I'm also sure it's not as easy as Ann was making out. But I don't want to say anything more on this thread really because it's upsetting Ann so much and it's not a topic worth making someone feel bad about.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 3, 2010)

dunno if it's already been said but keep a diary of events record everything ask the police to issue a harassment order regardless of your belief that they are her friends, show them the diary as proof of the harassment if they don't issue it then you can go to court of an injunction which prevents her from having contact with you if it continues then she's broken the injunction and will be fined or eventually jailed.   We're currently going through our second round of harassment orders against the mental downstairs (as the police helpfully sent a letter saying that the harassment order had now lapsed as it had been 6 months... guess what that promoted...  ) 

After 2 recorded formal warnings of harassment the police can and with a bit of standing your ground will apply an injunction against her due to wasting police time.

Every time it starts up call 999 and say you're being threatened in your house by your neighbour after a short while the police will see this is an issue which is costing them more money to ignore in terms of call outs than it is to resolve via other means.

Keep the diary tho as you'll need it should it go to court...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 3, 2010)

sheothebudworths said:


> I was wondering if you can get a REVERSE noise assessment monitor thing...I know they'd usually measure volume in your own place, _coming from somewhere else_...but would it be possible (and/or worth) to ask for one in your own flat to monitor _your own_ noise levels, if that's an accusation that's being regularly made?
> Might be worth contacting your councils noise abatement team and asking, Ann.


 it's not this was the complaint which was raised against us by the mental downstairs we asked for a similar thing they advised it would need to be the person complaining about the noise who had it fitted.

it's worth noting in Hackney at least that the noise monitoring people said they'd need at least 100 complaints before they were preparred to put in a monitor (can you imagine how mental you'd have to be be driven before that'd kick in) 

in any case what is possible is that you ask the noise team to arrange a meeting between your local police SNT and environmental health this will then allow you to put your side of the story say this is what I'm doing this is why I'm doing it this is reasonable actions within my own house.

Equally on a legal basis if the noise is under 90 db then there's nothing which a noise team can do as you're not considered to be breeching any rules.  

Once they've had this meeting ask for the environmental health and the SNT to arrange arbitration between you and the neighbour; it's unlikely this will happen because a) they never bloody arrange it and b) the neighbours usually a nutcase who has no interest in resolving the issues.  This then shows you are willing to attempt to resolve this matter, and will stand you in good stead for the eventual court case and will further back up your need for an injunction against the harassing neighbour  as they have refused all reasonable action. 

finally and it's worth considering could you modify the times that the noise is supposedly being made by changing some habits putting in underlay fixing squeaky doors floor boards etc if you can then you should, keep the receipts etc as again even if this doesn't resolve the issue then you have once again proved to the court you have made more than reasonable efforts and you're injunction is more likely to be granted. 

our mentals after two years of the police saying well its 6 of 1  half a dozen of the other (which is bollocks we've been nothing but reasonable but they have been permanently aggressive and psychotic) attacked the police last week so that's there last remaining plank of their argument. 

above all try as I have to think of it like this, they have to live life like that and they've have gone through life behaving in that fashion repeating the same mistakes over and over and getting the same results what it must be to live a life entirely filled with that much mental and anger and not to have learned to behave like an adult or realise it's their actions which have poisoned everything they've ever touched... it's desperately sad when you think about it...

take hope from the fact that you do learn from these things and move forward, if for no other reason that if not you'll become just like the mental downstairs


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## toggle (Oct 3, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> I totally get that but the council/police cannot do anything about a fear of possible incidents. Yes this neighbour has been vile to Ann but it doesn't seem like she has recently and other than the police at the door nothing seems to have happened.
> 
> In all seriousness, wtf is anyone supposed to do? We don't even know if the visit was anything at all to do with this neighbour.


 
but it is exceedingly suspect that the police would be hammering on her door at 5am and go away without taking any further action when she refused to let them in. this leads to a high probability it was the neighbour, who has started up causing ann trouble again and has involved the police in her campaigns against ann before. there is certyainly enough probability that it is deliberate troublemaking that I really don't understand why anyone is motivated to be questioning ann concluding this. Their otivations for that are more suspect to me than ann's fears she will be targeted again.


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## toggle (Oct 3, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> dunno if it's already been said but keep a diary of events record everything ask the police to issue a harassment order regardless of your belief that they are her friends, show them the diary as proof of the harassment if they don't issue it then you can go to court of an injunction which prevents her from having contact with you if it continues then she's broken the injunction and will be fined or eventually jailed.   We're currently going through our second round of harassment orders against the mental downstairs (as the police helpfully sent a letter saying that the harassment order had now lapsed as it had been 6 months... guess what that promoted...  )
> 
> After 2 recorded formal warnings of harassment the police can and with a bit of standing your ground will apply an injunction against her due to wasting police time.
> 
> ...


 
wot garf said!


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## Looby (Oct 3, 2010)

toggle said:


> but it is exceedingly suspect that the police would be hammering on her door at 5am and go away without taking any further action when she refused to let them in. this leads to a high probability it was the neighbour, who has started up causing ann trouble again and has involved the police in her campaigns against ann before. there is certyainly enough probability that it is deliberate troublemaking that I really don't understand why anyone is motivated to be questioning ann concluding this. Their otivations for that are more suspect to me than ann's fears she will be targeted again.



It probably is her neighbour but there needs to be proof. Do you really think the police/local authority can do anything?

I am not doubting Anns distress or what her neighbours have put her through but nothing can be done without proof. Unfortunately, they are unlikely to do anything based on this incident alone.

I am just trying to be realistic so I'd be grateful if my motivations weren't questioned. 

Having seen my mum go through major neighbour issues it's bloody hard to get anything done and Ann will need to be prepared for a long fight if the harrassment continues and she wants to stay there.


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## toggle (Oct 3, 2010)

asking about housing benefit probably wasn't the best place to start, but when you are bloody scared then grasping at straws is a perfectly normal reaction. panicing when you realise those straws aren't there is another.

ann was amazingly helpful to me in learning how to start understanding how to communicate with my kid. I know that if anyone told him to deal with a problem that was scaring him by telling him to 'man up' or telling him those fears aren't real, he would freak out. big time. 

my thought was that every time someone on here starts saying they don't believe her, or she needs male genitalia to cope with this situation, that it makes her less likely to be able to go to the people that can do something about this, who happen to be the people that the neighbour has already used to have a go at her. 

was it pogofish that nearly got abso'd because of a nutcase neighbour's campaigns?


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## Looby (Oct 3, 2010)

It wasn't me telling her to man up or grow a pair though. I also wasn't saying her fears aren't real just that there is probably little that can be done about them until the neighbour does something and Ann reports it (probably repeatedly).


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## LilMissHissyFit (Oct 4, 2010)

sheothebudworths said:


> I was wondering if you can get a REVERSE noise assessment monitor thing...I know they'd usually measure volume in your own place, _coming from somewhere else_...but would it be possible (and/or worth) to ask for one in your own flat to monitor _your own_ noise levels, if that's an accusation that's being regularly made?
> Might be worth contacting your councils noise abatement team and asking, Ann.


 
They can do that... but only from her flat... shes claiming its too loud, she needs to let them know what she can hear...its actually measured within the neighbours property too
Otherwise she needs to STFU and stop harrassing Ann... Im sure the noise abatement/anti social behaviour unit can respond appropriately if and when the agro neighbour responds.

We had a massive issue with a neighbour and noise, dealing etc... she made a counter allegation of harrassment... the nights she had them round to measure noise we had a joyous peaceful nights sleep- we didnt know that though until the officer told us that both myself and neighbour the other side had blank entries for the dates they'd visited
Its not rocket science


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## nick h. (Oct 4, 2010)

Forgive me for not reading further than the OP. Just popped in to say that last year when I was on JSA/ESA I got housing benefit despite owning a property. I argued that I couldn't get an income from it, had no equity in it and couldn't live in it myself. This was all true and I had to prove it, with lots of paperwork. It took 2 mths to get the paperwork and 3 mths to get a decision from the council. In the meantime I got no housing benefit.  

The OP's case is different - even if she has a valid reason for not living in her property it represents a valuable asset. If she moves out it ceases to be her home and becomes an investment which might be set against her entitlement to all her benefits. The council will want a valuation of it, including a notional rental value. They might add the rental value to her income even if the place is vacant.  It's complicated and I doubt Urban is the place to get an answer. Better to ask someone who helps with benefits appeals, ideally a solicitor. The council may well refuse your claim even if you are in the right, and you may need a solicitor anyway to get what you're entitled to.

e2a: just noticed that Ann doesn't live in the flat she owns. Does she get rental income from it? Is she on ESA or IB? Perhaps she can't get any benefits because she has assets worth 16k, as was mentioned upthread.  We need more info, preferably complete disclosure of income and assets, which is what the council would want before awarding HB.


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## Part 2 (Oct 4, 2010)

nick h. said:


> e2a: just noticed that Ann doesn't live in the flat she owns.



She does.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2010)

toggle said:


> wot garf said!


 
betcha never thought you'd say that!!


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> It wasn't me telling her to man up or grow a pair though. I also wasn't saying her fears aren't real just that there is probably little that can be done about them until the neighbour does something and Ann reports it (probably repeatedly).


 
That's why they have SNT's tho sparkels its' for the soft unable to prove asbo sections of people actions... to stop it getting to a provable (and likely crime) case.

To my mind SNT's are almost the type of police you want not particularly powerful (no immediate powers of arrest etc) but in essence someone to step in with a vague notion of authority and say steady on, shall we all behave like adults now before someone does something stupid and ends up in the shitter??


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## wemakeyousoundb (Oct 12, 2010)

record all intimidations incidents
contact police


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## toggle (Oct 12, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> betcha never thought you'd say that!!


 
innit


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## Mation (Nov 2, 2010)

Ann do you have someone you can stay with for now, or someone who can come and stay with you, while you investigate what your options are on your flat?

In the meantime, keeping a diary of any harassment sounds like very good advice.

Have you heard anything back about the complaint you made? (e2a. only just spotted that this thread is a few weeks old...)


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## Citizen66 (Nov 2, 2010)

I think she may have flounced...


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