# Sales of console games are down.. Why?



## moon (Nov 30, 2016)

So apparently console game sales are down and nobody seems to know why, but I think we do .. 
Why I think big console game sales are down

Personally I have been waiting over a year for Mass Effect Andromeda, I enjoyed The Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition but that was it for the current generation.

I'm playing ESO at the moment whilst waiting for Mass Effect and it is filling my time etc etc but its not the same as a really really well made AAA single player.

Maybe gaming has become a victim of its own success, and the large companies are unwilling to take big risks with games?
I mean could Mass Effect 1 ever be made today? (I would love to know how that game was nurtured)

Lots of people are playing online games with their mates, I know I am and social gaming is only going to become more popular in my opinion, there needs to be more cross over etc.

Gaming companies have not done themselves any favours either with releasing broken, unfinished games which lack diversity of content.

That is my 2 cents.. for now


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 30, 2016)

How many CoD games have there been now? There's your answer.


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## Gromit (Nov 30, 2016)

Large gaps between decent games being released as everyone hold off for Christmas. 

No Rockstar games being released is bound to hit the stats too.


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## Supine (Nov 30, 2016)

Gta6 isn't ready yet


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## kabbes (Nov 30, 2016)

I just... stopped one day.  Stopped being interested in playing things on my TV.  The things I was being offered seemed so much like the experiences I had played -- and enjoyed -- for 30 years already.  The difference between the present day and the previous 30 years was one of technological diminishing returns.  It was worth playing the same basic experiences on the Atari ST as the ZX Spectrum, because the ST could provide a much better experience on a fidelity basis alone.  Then from the ST to the Dreamcast to the PS2 to the Xbox 360 -- these were all improvements in the experience arising from better immersion alone.  It kept the interest going.  And then all of a sudden, the PS4/Xbone just... looked kind of like the Xbox 360.  What was the point?  I wasn't interested in playing the same game again.  The Mass Effect series kept me going for a bit, but that kind of story and character-led experience is just not what the gaming industry is primarily interested in.

I am playing my games on mobile devices now -- 3DS, Vita, iPhone, iPad.  They offer the ability to enjoy different types of fun to fill in time I need filled in.  The TV gaming, however, has to compete with other calls on quality time.  And one way or other, it is losing that competition in my head.


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## Gromit (Nov 30, 2016)

Supine said:


> Gta6 isn't ready yet


Rockstar have held back on a number of projects due to a legal action they want settled first. They ain't just about GTA. It's affected Red Dead Redemption too.


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## moon (Nov 30, 2016)

kabbes said:


> The Mass Effect series kept me going for a bit, but that kind of story and character-led experience is just not what the gaming industry is primarily interested in.



This is the primary reason as to why the industry is flat-lining in my opinion.
I mean what does it take to make a game as good as Mass Effect?
Good writers, good ideas people, good developers, good designers?
I suspect the people who made ME1 would have worked for free as they were that interested in making a good game.
This doesn't seem to happen anymore, the ideas and passions get watered down and dulled by the accountants and bottom line etc.


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## mauvais (Nov 30, 2016)

The industry isn't flatlining, because the industry is more than AAA games.


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## moon (Nov 30, 2016)

Ok.. I was exaggerating..


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## Johnny Vodka (Nov 30, 2016)

Games are too big.  If you're into finishing, how many realistically can you play in a year?


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## ffsear (Nov 30, 2016)

I blame no mans sky.


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## dylanredefined (Nov 30, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Games are too big.  If you're into finishing, how many realistically can you play in a year?



 They are big and expensive and time consuming not something that is finished in a weekend.


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## Supine (Nov 30, 2016)

That article offers no actual evidence that sales are down, unless i missed it.

At the beginning they list some games that failed to do well. After buying Watchdogs 1 I'm not suprised 2 didn't do well lol.

At the end of the article it lists some games like Skyrim Remastered that did do super well.

So, are actual total sales down for the industry?


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2016)

BioWare is working on a new story-driven IP at the moment. Nevertheless, there was word at one point that EA simply wouldn't greenlight any new IP at all - it all had to be sequels or at a push spin-offs. And there has to be an online component in all of their games now. AAA games are multimillion dollar/pound affairs. As technology improves and more is possible, they take more and more investment to live up to that technology. Of course it starts to become a risky business to try something new.

If we're talking all-singing all-dancing AAA, of course. There are plenty of other games that don't cost half as much - but they also don't look like Battlefield 1 or ROTTR.



moon said:


> I suspect the people who made ME1 would have worked for free as they were that interested in making a good game.
> This doesn't seem to happen anymore, the ideas and passions get watered down and dulled by the accountants and bottom line etc.



No they wouldn't. How would they have paid their mortgages and fed their kids? It's all very well talking about passion, but material realities don't melt away just because you enjoy or don't enjoy something. You can't even say they'd probably have made more sacrifices or worked extra overtime because that ignores that crunch is a thing whether you love the game you're working on or not.

BioWare were an established developer even before the ME series came out, incidentally. And I dare you to go to them and tell them they're not passionate about making a good game now that EA are involved. I dare you.

Not to sound like a broken record, but this is a very good blog to take a look at: Ask a Game Dev



Johnny Vodka said:


> Games are too big.  If you're into finishing, how many realistically can you play in a year?



Which games? Maybe you're not buying the right ones.

--

If someone is going to research if there is a change in the sales of video games, if they want to offer any kind of explanation for it alongside bare sales data they need to look at all sorts of things: for example, categories of games and whether the trends are the same throughout each of them, and if not why not?; is it only console game sales that are down? and if so, is there a matched increase in the sale of games on other platforms? and if not, why not?; does the trend in video game sales correlate in any way with the spend on other types of media, like films or streaming subscriptions or so on? If one is down while another is up, can we do more research into whether people are switching what types of entertainment they like? Or, if all are down across the board, might we be able to see whether this is because fewer people have the disposable income to spend on as many of these things now?

That's just a small selection of questions you could ask. It's not enough to say "console sales are down - therefore it means the games they make are shit" - claims need to be rigorous.

One obvious thing to ask is whether it should be expected that video games - or any other type of entertainment media - retain exactly the same level of interest for the rest of time? I'd say the answer to that is clearly no.


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## Johnny Vodka (Nov 30, 2016)

Supine said:


> After buying Watchdogs 1 I'm not suprised 2 didn't do well



Why?


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## Johnny Vodka (Nov 30, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Which games? Maybe you're not buying the right ones.



Most of them!  I don't mind, they represent very good value for money (especially if, like me, you wait for them to reduce in price).  It's just I end up buying a fair number and rarely do more than scratch the surface, and never have the chance to get really good at them.  But I can see how people who want to complete games and have a life away from the screen might reasonably only pick up 2 or 3 big titles a year.


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Most of them!  I don't mind, they represent very good value for money (especially if, like me, you wait for them to reduce in price).  It's just I end up buying a fair number and rarely do more than scratch the surface, and never have the chance to get really good at them.  But I can see how people who want to complete games and have a life away from the screen might reasonably only pick up 2 or 3 big titles a year.



"Big titles" - this is what I mean. Not all games are created equal. Gone Home takes maybe 3 hours. Skyrim can arguably never be finished; Skyrim's main quest can be finished in a few hours. Driving games have a set number of courses and some will have more than others. Fighting games have a set number of opponents to beat, and some will have more than others. Indie platformers will have levels of varying lengths. COD is always going to be COD. The big flashy AAA games that keep going for more and more realism in their graphics - those are the ones you mean I suppose? Markets being what markets are, the next thing has to be bigger, better. Can you imagine if the next thing was smaller, not better? Would everyone go out and spend £60 on it?

Another thing you mention - waiting for it to be reduced in price. If everyone did that they wouldn't make as much profit and they'd rethink what they create. They'd pour more money into the things that do make them profit - which these days seems to be mobile gaming. I'm not defending high game costs, and I'm not defending the market. I'm explaining how it works. Not liking how it works won't make it stop working like that.


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2016)

Another thing these mythical researchers could look at: we want our game creators to be passionate and to love what they're doing and to do it for love and to be invested and full of _artistic integrity_ but by god we will kick and scream when the end product doesn't tick all the boxes that we, as the almighty consumer, demand and deserve. There has been a change in the relationship between developers and players over the past couple of years or so, and it might be interesting to look at to what extent that might have altered the market.


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## Johnny Vodka (Nov 30, 2016)

If I paid full price for a Skyrim, Dark Souls or GTAX, I wouldn't feel ripped off.  The reason I can wait is I have so much still to play, the reason I give in 'because it's cheap'.  I don't really have a problem with the stuff the industry churns out.  If game model y is used so often, it's probably because that idea works as a game (and worked in some form back when games were pretty much all 2D).  Maybe more sorts of games will be available as technology improves... more freedom, more consequences in the game world, etc.


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## mauvais (Nov 30, 2016)

There has been a recognisably growing trend of what you might politely call 'reuse'. By this I mean releasing the same franchised game each year with notionally a whole new experience but not really much fundamental difference. Ubisoft (hello, Assassins Creed) and EA are probably the biggest offenders. It's now happening across titles too. Eventually this and the reliance on this is going to bite back, as it already has with Call of Duty.

There's also various trends, principally the fact that the console hardware is some way into its lifespan now. Also online subscription and DLC etc has low/no development cost and is all profit, but shows up as much reduced revenue compared to shipping boxes.

I reckon the games industry in general is in rude health though, whether or not you include mobile and things you wouldn't think of as traditional big-G gaming.


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Maybe more sorts of games will be available as technology improves... more freedom, more consequences in the game world, etc.



For story-driven RPGs this is the holy grail. Incredibly sought-after, incredibly difficult to deliver.

It's important to note that freedom is an illusion, and probably always will be. I recommend The Stanley Parable for an interesting game made about just that. (The Stanley Parable made a lot of people angry, which is very interesting in itself.)

How well that illusion is constructed is really what we're getting at. The same goes for consequence, which can only ever be so organic. Currently at least, compromises have to be made over whether you go tall or wide. You can't go tall and wide because not enough money or time exists to do so. You can go a little bit tall and a little bit wide, but if you don't do it well you risk it feeling half-hearted in both respects.

By tall and wide I mean if you're going to have a rich, cinematic story with lots of dialogue and characterisation, or if you're going to have endless possibilities and changes to the game world that can happen if the player sneezes or not at a particular point. If you want the first, then when you start introducing the latter each off-shoot or branch needs to have the same level of rich, cinematic storytelling and characterisation, even if 0.001% of the players are ever going to see it. If you would prefer endless choice and consequence, you have to cut down on how rich each of those branches can be.

And this is before we get into whether you expect the branches to all come back together at the end. Or, in a case like many BioWare games, provide some kind of continuity and jumping off point for a sequel (which is why Mass Effect: Andromeda is set when it is).

So, at the moment more freedom and more consequences are possible, but only at the expense of resources.

An interesting discussion would be about how we're all clamoring after realism in graphics, but are we starting to feel disaffected at the lack of verisimilitude in gameplay itself? By that I don't mean does a gun shoot in the exact same way it would in real life, but rather being able to make choices and have freedom rather than being obviously constrained by game mechanics. And, as a follow-up question, is our disaffection justified? I'd say no. Others would disagree.


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2016)

Another interesting person to follow: although not solely about consoles - Steam Spy (@Steam_Spy) on Twitter

He wrote a thing on this very subject and suggests:



> What’s going on, in my opinion, is a further fragmentation of audience where more people now have a better selection of games tailored specifically for their needs. Not everyone, mind you, we still have a long way to go (and a tremendous opportunity to grow). What we see now is a result of the change our industry welcomed first around 15 years ago.



What’s with weak AAA sales? – Steam Spy


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## DotCommunist (Dec 1, 2016)

probably cos more people every day are seeing the light


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## kabbes (Dec 1, 2016)

I'd come back for Half Life 3.


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 1, 2016)

Meanwhile, Pokémon Sun/Moon is breaking records as the fastest selling Pokémon game ever!

'Pokémon Sun' And 'Pokémon Moon' Just Broke A Major Sales Record


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## souljacker (Dec 1, 2016)

TV becoming really really good probably hasn't helped.


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## moon (Dec 1, 2016)

souljacker I like to be 'in' my media.. not just observing it 

I think the relationship between fans and developers was mentioned above, its something that I really like about ESO, in that we are 'in touch' with the developers via the forums and they do listen to our comments and suggestions.
We have seen much requested ideas implemented and necessary changes made with almost every update and it has lead to a very vibrant and dynamic gaming experience.
I know this can only occur with an ongoing online game but I think its something that will happen more in the future as the popularity of connected playtime rises.


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## mauvais (Dec 1, 2016)

That can happen with all types of games prior to 'gold' release too, especially if they have early access or betas or they follow on from another game with good community established. And in updates afterwards, if that suits.


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## souljacker (Dec 1, 2016)

moon said:


> souljacker I like to be 'in' my media.. not just observing it



Yeah, I know what you mean, but when I start my Playstation up, there are so many options. Watch a movie on Plex, catch up with iplayer/4od, watch a box set on Netflix and, oh yeah, I could play a game. Maybe consoles have become too smart for their own good?


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 1, 2016)

moon said:


> souljacker I like to be 'in' my media.. not just observing it
> 
> I think the relationship between fans and developers was mentioned above, its something that I really like about ESO, in that we are 'in touch' with the developers via the forums and they do listen to our comments and suggestions.
> We have seen much requested ideas implemented and necessary changes made with almost every update and it has lead to a very vibrant and dynamic gaming experience.
> I know this can only occur with an ongoing online game but I think its something that will happen more in the future as the popularity of connected playtime rises.



Tried ESO last week, and it just confirmed for me that I detest Western RPG's. Give me FFXIV any day!


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## MooChild (Dec 1, 2016)

Suddenly games are 50 quid on launch - fuck that.
We are unpaid beta testers.
I will only buy a game if it is worth getting now, and that includes reading reviews after it has come out.


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## moon (Dec 1, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> Tried ESO last week, and it just confirmed for me that I detest Western RPG's. Give me FFXIV any day!


Why do you detest them?


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 1, 2016)

moon said:


> Why do you detest them?



Well, compared to JRPG's I find the following nearly always true:

Very gory, blood and dismemberment abound
Too humourless, or just dark humour
Grim settings
Too realistic looking, not fanciful enough
Gloomy doom-music
Not very colourful.


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## moon (Dec 1, 2016)

mwgdrwg 
OK, well those are most of the reasons why I like ESO lol
(apart form the goriness..)
Have you seen Dragons Dogma Online.. that's a JRPG but I'm guessing you feel its too similar to a Western RPG?


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 1, 2016)

moon said:


> mwgdrwg
> OK, well those are most of the reasons why I like ESO lol
> (apart form the goriness..)
> Have you seen Dragons Dogma Online.. that's a JRPG but I'm guessing you feel its too similar to a Western RPG?



Haven't looked at Dragons Dogma. The only MMO's I have enjoyed have been FFXI and FFXIV, but always quit because of money/time.

I've put FFXV on my Christmas list, so I hope to be playing that when I'm off.


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 1, 2016)

mauvais said:


> That can happen with all types of games prior to 'gold' release too, especially if they have early access or betas or they follow on from another game with good community established. And in updates afterwards, if that suits.



Absolutely. Some developers are better at ongoing customer service than others. Paradox always have a good reputation, and Amplitude have been good with incorporating feedback and including players in the development process. It's not possible for all projects though, because of the scope of the game and what the developers want out of it in the first place.


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 1, 2016)

MooChild said:


> Suddenly games are 50 quid on launch - fuck that.
> We are unpaid beta testers.
> I will only buy a game if it is worth getting now, and that includes reading reviews after it has come out.



The price of games hasn't increased - certainly considering inflation over the past 30 years. Think how much a NES cartridge cost back in the day. There's a wider range of prices for games now, though. And there are a lot of sales. So when something is full price, and there are so many games available, it appears to be very expensive.


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