# The Oscars



## Nanker Phelge (Mar 4, 2018)

Oscars. My Predictions

Best Actress (most interesting category this year)

Will win: Frances McDormand for Three Billboards
Outside Bet: Margot Robbie for I, Tonya (she could take it this year and I would be just as pleased)

Best film:

Should Win: Get Out (But horror films don't win)
Will win: Three Billboards (well deserved)
Please don't give it to The Post, or any of the others.....

Best Actor:

Gary Oldman has this in the bag.
Outside chance: Denzil could be the shock win, but Day-Lewis could also edge it because he is worthy, but not because he deserves it

Best Supporting Actress

Won't win: Mary J Blige - she's a singer and not an actress and it is her first nomination - the academy won't betray their trade by giving it to a musician (she is also nominated in best song - hope she wins that)

Will win: Allison Janney - I, Tonya

Best Supporting Actor

Harrelson and Rockwell - vote split - so good chance they won't make it.

My vote - Christopher Plummer - the man made great work of replacing Spacey. He made it his film. It will also be a stab in Spacey's back by an academy wanting to demonstrate their victim empathy. Plummer deserves to win (cos his performance was the best of this lot), but it if he does it'll be a political vote that ignores the power of his performance.

Best Director

Nolan - Dunkirk. Epic work. Oscar bait. A clear winner.

Best Original Screenplay

Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri - written by Martin McDonagh - Great writing, a bit clunky, head and shoulders above the others in this catergory

Best Foreign Language Film

Not seen any - so no idea

Best Original Score

Hans Zimmer - Dunkirk

Best Cinematography

Roger Deakins for Blade Runner 2049 (it has to be his year! This man makes films so much better)

If not Deakins then Hoyte van Hoytema for Dunkirk

Best Sound Editing

I'd wager Baby Driver gets a nod here, but it should be Dunkirk.

There's some other awards I can't be arsed to comment on....so they'll be what they be....

What's your thoughts?

Tomorrow I expect to wake up completely wrong as I do most years....


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## trashpony (Mar 4, 2018)

I'm hoping my friend Tanya wins best editing for I Tonya

I don't care about anything else really


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## mod (Mar 4, 2018)

Lady Bird will win best picture.


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 4, 2018)

mod said:


> Lady Bird will win best picture.



Not a chance


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## Orang Utan (Mar 4, 2018)

mod said:


> Lady Bird will win best picture.


Why the certainty?
Why are people so certain about things they cannot be certain about?


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## D'wards (Mar 4, 2018)

I put  £20 on Lady Bird and Gerwig to win their categories separately. The odds are quite long so it was worth a punt.

The Oscars have shown us recently they will bend to political pressure and harranging, and what with all the #metoo women in Hollywood are "so hot right now".

I think Three Billboards will win though, but my personal favourite is The Florida Project.

Lady Bird and Three Billboards both fantastic films as well though .


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## Orang Utan (Mar 4, 2018)

People are betting on it? FFS!
Can't people just enjoy the surprise. Why make a game of it?


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## D'wards (Mar 4, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> People are betting on it? FFS!
> Can't people just enjoy the surprise. Why make a game of it?


You seem to get furious over the most trivial things . I hope you're not a driver


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 4, 2018)

D'wards said:


> I put  £20 on Lady Bird and Gerwig to win their categories separately. The odds are quite long so it was worth a punt.
> 
> The Oscars have shown us recently they will bend to political pressure and harranging, and what with all the #metoo women in Hollywood are "so hot right now".
> 
> ...



you lost £20


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## Gromit (Mar 4, 2018)

I want Get Out to win something. 

I think they'll throw it a bone in the form of original screenplay award. 
William Hill bookies agree and have it as favourite for that category. 

It deserves to win something but it doesn't deserve a token win out of demographical politics.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 4, 2018)

D'wards said:


> You seem to get furious over the most trivial things . I hope you're not a driver


Nope. I just don't how people can predict these things. Best stick to what you think SHOULD win, not what you think will win. No one can know, you're just guessing


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## D'wards (Mar 4, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> you lost £20


Not true






I just lost £40


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## D'wards (Mar 4, 2018)

I used the same logic and won nuff dollar on Moonlight last year. Cos it followed the #oscarsowhite scandal .


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 4, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> Nope. I just don't how people can predict these things. Best stick to what you think SHOULD win, not what you think will win. No one can know, you're just guessing



Anyone can predict based on the history of the awards. William Goldman has been 95% right predicting for years.


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## belboid (Mar 4, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Oscars. My Predictions
> 
> Best Actress (most interesting category this year)
> 
> ...


I think you have them pretty much spot on. 

Call Me By Your Name got best adapted screenplay, and del Toro for director. A Fantastic Woman for foreign language


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## Gromit (Mar 4, 2018)

Wow Get out for screen play was 4/6 when I looked earlier. It's now 8/15. Being backed heavily.


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## D'wards (Mar 4, 2018)

I think it will be an odd ceremony this year, what with all that's gone on.

Seth Rogan said he won't crack gags about #metoo in the opening monologue as he wants to avoid grief for making light of it.

Saoirse Ronan pointed out that everyone is too terrified to ask women who they are wearing on the red carpet now, which was always a mainstay.

Whilst it's good that it is acknowledging the politics and dark side of the film industry in a bid to do something about it, it's at the cost of some of the levity.
However, like all awards ceremonies, it's an entirely pointless affair, and has fuck all to do with the actual films released in any year.
The box office is the only influencing factor- not diversity or anything political.


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## spanglechick (Mar 5, 2018)

Film: 3 Billboards (I'd prefer Shape of Water)

Director: Del Toro

Original screenplay: 3 Billboards (mc donagh snubbed in the siector nominations should cash in here).

Actress - McDormand. Bet the house on it. 

Actor: should be Chalemet (so?) Will be Oldman

Supp. Actor: Rockwell

Supp. Actress: probably Janney, but Spencer is in with a shout.   

Score: shape of water

Production design: shape of water

Most tech awards will go to Dunkirk. 

Makeup to Darkest Hour and costume to Victoria and Abdul.  

Song is probably "this is me", but could be "remember me".


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## belboid (Mar 5, 2018)

No shocks so far.


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## alan_ (Mar 5, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> Why the certainty?
> Why are people so certain about things they cannot be certain about?


why are you so sure they cannot be certain about it ?


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## Maltin (Mar 5, 2018)

alan_ said:


> why are you so sure they cannot be certain about it ?


Are they a partner at PwC?


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 5, 2018)

This is even more toe curling than usual.

That skit where a bunch of actors went across the road to 'honour' the plebs sitting in a cinema. I'm watching the whole thing through my fingers.


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## krtek a houby (Mar 5, 2018)

Well done to Blade Runner.

And to Gary Oldman (even though I'll probably not watch the film itself).


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 5, 2018)

My hours are a bit fucked so watched the whole thing for the first time in years. One observation - why is there still a best actress category? No other category (best director/editor/screenwriter etc etc) divides the genders. Seems a bit odd in the current climate of the pursuit of equality in hollywood.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2018)

Maybe cos that would mean fewer women would win awards


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 5, 2018)

I think it's more likely that it dates back to the stone ages and it also provides more opportunities for the studios to plaster 'oscar winner' on their posters. If we're modernizing everything else it may be time to sort that one out.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 5, 2018)

i refuse to watch gary oldman in a fat suit do a hagiographic portrayal of a cunt.

But I will have to do Shape of Water now. I hear someone fucks a fish in it? Might as well...


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 5, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> it also provides more opportunities for the studios to plaster 'oscar winner' on their posters.



It's exactly this....


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 5, 2018)

Deakin's finally got his Oscar....which by now is more like a lifetime achievement gong.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2018)

Shape Of Water is ok, but not worthy of any Oscars (except maybe Sally Hawkins, as she is brilliant). Found the production design a bit over the top. Everything looked dirty and two of the main characters were supposed to be cleaners!


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## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> i refuse to watch gary oldman in a fat suit do a hagiographic portrayal of a cunt.
> 
> But I will have to do Shape of Water now. I hear someone fucks a fish in it? Might as well...


There's a lot of wanking in the bath in it too


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 5, 2018)

I am happy for Shape of Water. It reminded me how magical and lovely cinema can be.

Really pleased Get Out got a nod too.


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 5, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> There's a lot of wanking in the bath in it too



2 wanks in the bath, and a fish fuck.


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 5, 2018)

Oldman's accent was pretty unconvincing. I doubt Churchill spent much time in south london.


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## krtek a houby (Mar 5, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> Oldman's accent was pretty unconvincing. I doubt Churchill spent much time in south london.



Both had controversies over anti-Semitism, mind


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 5, 2018)

I'm just glad Lady Bird won nothing.

It's clearly one of those situations where the critics had decided in advance that Greta Gerwig was going to be the next big thing and were thus obliged to heap praise upon the derivative, lukewarm crap she utimately produced. 

There's also much talk of Gerwig having potentially plagiarised the entire movie:

Of LADY BIRD, REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES, and Revisiting the Question of Plagiarism


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 5, 2018)

I quite liked it. Fairly predictable though I guess.

Three billboards was clearly the best of the lot but I gather the whiff of racism sunk its chances.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 5, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> This is even more toe curling than usual.
> 
> That skit where a bunch of actors went across the road to 'honour' the plebs sitting in a cinema. I'm watching the whole thing through my fingers.



I think they felt that it had become "tradition" to hand out food to the audience.  I liked it the year they send a troop of Girl Scouts out to sell cookies.  It was an actual surprise and it send a message of support for them.  They've been under attack by the right for "promoting feminism."  If you can't promote girls and women in the Girl Scouts, where can you, ffs?   It's gotten to be a bit rote since.  It felt forced to hand out food to the proles watching across the street.  It would have been more interesting to watch millionaires, in evening attire, dive like fools for food shot out of a hotdog cannon (and they would).

I was more annoyed by the people they left out of the in memoriam montage.  They didn't include John Mahonney?  Glen Campbell?  Adam West?  David Cassidy?  Della Reece?  Robert Robert Guillaume?  I know this segment is more noticed for who they left out, but they did an especially bad job of it this year.

Did like the jet ski contest.  I know it was cheesy, but how many times do you get to see a screen writer riding a jet ski, with Helen Mirren riding bike bitch on the back?  The Oscars are about cheese (and money, don't forget money.)


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 5, 2018)

They literally fired hot dogs at them from some kind of hot dog gun. If someone came to a cinema where I was enjoying a film, interrupted it and did that to me I’d deck them, tuxedo or not.

And the memorial section. Wtf was Eddie vedder doing that for? He’s one of my musical heroes but surely he’s got enough in the bank to not be pimping himself out like that.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 5, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> They literally fired hot dogs at them from some kind of hot dog gun. If someone came to a cinema where I was enjoying a film, interrupted it and did that to me I’d deck them, tuxedo or not.



I believe they were watching the Oscars, not a film.  Hotdog canons are an American thing.  You'll see them at baseball and football games a lot.  They fire hotdogs, but also t-shirts and other team gear into the crowd.  It's considered a bit of a coup to catch stuff without dropping it or otherwise fumbling it.


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 5, 2018)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I believe they were watching the Oscars, not a film.  Hotdog canons are an American thing.  You'll see them at baseball and football games a lot.  They fire hotdogs, but also t-shirts and other team gear into the crowd.  It's considered a bit of a coup to catch stuff without dropping it or otherwise fumbling it.



No, they were watching the new Oprah film.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 5, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> No, they were watching the new Oprah film.



Were they?  Well, that's out of order then.


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 5, 2018)

They probably enjoyed it more than Oprah's new film.....which won't be winning any oscars


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## spanglechick (Mar 5, 2018)

Acting awards are divided by gender because even now, the majority of lead roles in Hollywood films are written for male actors.  And the majority of supporting roles.  And the majority of incidental roles.  And the majority of fucking extras in crowd scenes.


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 5, 2018)

Why aren’t the other categories divided up as well then? 

There was one female director nominated and four blokes. Should there be a best female director category?


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## spanglechick (Mar 5, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> Why aren’t the other categories divided up as well then?
> 
> There was one female director nominated and four blokes. Should there be a best female director category?


While producers may not choose to employ female directors, there's nothing about the job that means this director has to be a man or has to be a woman.  That isn't true of actors.   

It's a problem, but a different one that requires a different solution.


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 5, 2018)

Frances Mcdormand would have won best actor in a merged category.

It just struck me as rather weird that there was reference after reference to the fight for equality in Hollywood and then they have two categories specifically dividing up the genders. A lot of female actresses don’t want to use that word now anyway, preferring the more generic ‘actor’ so it seems a bit odd the oscars still uses it. Even the bbc seems to have dropped the term.


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## D'wards (Mar 5, 2018)

Has the heavy politicking over the last few years enforced the importance or pointlessness of awarding prizes for art, I wonder .


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## Voley (Mar 5, 2018)

I'm glad Frances McDormand won. Only film I've seen at the pictures so far this year and I really rated it.


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## spanglechick (Mar 5, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> Frances Mcdormand would have won best actor in a merged category.
> 
> It just struck me as rather weird that there was reference after reference to the fight for equality in Hollywood and then they have two categories specifically dividing up the genders. A lot of female actresses don’t want to use that word now anyway, preferring the more generic ‘actor’ so it seems a bit odd the oscars still uses it. Even the bbc seems to have dropped the term.


Yeah - i did a thread a couple of years ago, i think...  the Brit awards etc manage to have female solo artist and male solo artist categories.

But afair, only the SAG awards have eschewed the word “actress”.  I used to be an actor, and now teach drama and i rarely use it, but even in the profession it’s quite widespread.


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## D'wards (Mar 6, 2018)

Oscars 2018: viewing figures for ceremony lowest ever recorded


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## Reiabuzz (Mar 6, 2018)

I wonder if that's partly because viewers would like to actually think about the films rather than having political shit shoved down their throat at every opportunity. I watched the whole thing and plenty of the winners wanted their say on things completely unrelated to their award which has become a trend in recent years. Worthy causes but it can get a bit tiring when the point of films is escapism for many.


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## D'wards (Mar 7, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> I wonder if that's partly because viewers would like to actually think about the films rather than having political shit shoved down their throat at every opportunity. I watched the whole thing and plenty of the winners wanted their say on things completely unrelated to their award which has become a trend in recent years. Worthy causes but it can get a bit tiring when the point of films is escapism for many.


This is really the accepted reason. 

People want to see a fun night of glamourous back-slapping.


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## nuffsaid (Mar 7, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> 2 wanks in the bath, and a fish fuck.



So basically a film that promotes bestiality wins the Oscars....what a world we live in.


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 7, 2018)

nuffsaid said:


> So basically a film that promotes bestiality wins the Oscars....what a world we live in.



Diversity matters


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## Orang Utan (Mar 7, 2018)

nuffsaid said:


> So basically a film that promotes bestiality wins the Oscars....what a world we live in.


Don't ever watch Possession then


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## Pickman's model (Mar 7, 2018)

nuffsaid said:


> So basically a film that promotes bestiality wins the Oscars....what a world we live in.


yeh let's give the oscars to films that promote killing people instead.


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## krtek a houby (Mar 7, 2018)

D'wards said:


> This is really the accepted reason.
> 
> People want to see a fun night of glamourous back-slapping.



Still, this was better than back slapping (back in the day)


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## nuffsaid (Mar 7, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> Don't ever watch Possession then



But did it win best picture?


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## nuffsaid (Mar 7, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Diversity matters



I suppose Oliver was a musical celebrating child abuse.....


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## 8ball (Mar 7, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Acting awards are divided by gender because even now, the majority of lead roles in Hollywood films are written for male actors.  And the majority of supporting roles.  And the majority of incidental roles.  And the majority of fucking extras in crowd scenes.



I'm at a film festival (which I've been involved in organising) this weekend.  Doesn't seem that heavily skewed in the films I've reviewed for it, but this ain't mass market stuff.  Might make some notes to see if I've just not noticed due to some degree of unconscious bias, though...


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## spanglechick (Mar 7, 2018)

8ball said:


> I'm at a film festival (which I've been involved in organising) this weekend.  Doesn't seem that heavily skewed in the films I've reviewed for it, but this ain't mass market stuff.  Might make some notes to see if I've just not noticed due to some degree of unconscious bias, though...


Have a look at the Geena Davis Institute's research.


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## 8ball (Mar 7, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Have a look at the Geena Davis Institute's research.



Since the films I've been watching were made recently by aspiring film makers, I doubt the GDI will have collected much data on them.


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## Sue (Mar 7, 2018)

8ball said:


> I'm at a film festival (which I've been involved in organising) this weekend.  Doesn't seem that heavily skewed in the films I've reviewed for it, but this ain't mass market stuff.  Might make some notes to see if I've just not noticed due to some degree of unconscious bias, though...


Might also be interesting to keep the Bechdel test in mind...


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## spanglechick (Mar 7, 2018)

Can't figure out how to embed twitter pist on phone, but this infographic sheds clear light on the male vs female roles issue.  These are all best picture winners.   






'How much women get to speak in films' is the most shocking stat you'll read this week


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## Maltin (Mar 8, 2018)

spanglechick said:


> Can't figure out how to embed twitter pist on phone, but this infographic sheds clear light on the male vs female roles issue.  These are all best picture winners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seems a little ironic that the only one directed by a woman has apparently hardly any women speaking.


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 28, 2022)

Perhaps some of you can help Owen to know what to think…


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## tonysingh (Mar 28, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Perhaps some of you can help Owen to know what to think…




Assuming it wasn't a scripted event then I think fair enough like. Everyone has a snapping point. Or are those in the film industry supposed to be emotionless robots?


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## Numbers (Mar 28, 2022)

200+lb 6+ft man slap you the way he slapped Rock and you not knowing it's coming, you'd not only flinch you'd go flying.


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## Petcha (Mar 28, 2022)

I assume Chris Rock didn't know about the alopecia. But regardless, no Will Smith, just no. You're a role model. And clearly a fucking dick. True life violence when impressionable kids are watching, no.

Oh and his portrayal of Richard Williams was ok, not better than Camberbatch though, quite clearly. And the movie (which he executive produced) was completely inaccurate. It skipped out all the bad shit that son of a bitch did and exaggerated his genius.


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## tonysingh (Mar 28, 2022)

What's that on Chris Rocks face?

Fresh Prints.


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## Ted Striker (Mar 28, 2022)




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## bluescreen (Mar 28, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Perhaps some of you can help Owen to know what to think…



I was all ready to laugh at OJ but it's an informative thread. It raises many issues, including whether a theatrical slap is violent violence, whether white people's quickness to condemn is a function of racism, and whether alopecia is a disability - with other disabled people arguing that it is (I'd thought of it as disfigurement when it happens to women, so more difficult to deal with than male baldness, but maybe I need to think again about the disabling effects of emotional distress?) and the extent to which wealth protects people like Will Smith and his wife from racism. And more...


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## Ranbay (Mar 28, 2022)

Keeping memer's in work.... that's for sure.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 28, 2022)

Funniest thing Will Smiths done since Hancock imo


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## hegley (Mar 28, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I assume Chris Rock didn't know about the alopecia.


She's been public about her alopecia - it seems very unlikely he didn't know.

Having lost all my hair because of chemo last year, as much as I think Will Smith is wrong to have slapped him, I can't say I feel wildly sympathetic towards Chris Rock.


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## Lord Camomile (Mar 28, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> I was all ready to laugh at OJ but it's an informative thread. It raises many issues, including whether a theatrical slap is violent violence, whether white people's quickness to condemn is a function of racism, and whether alopecia is a disability - with other disabled people arguing that it is (I'd thought of it as disfigurement when it happens to women, so more difficult to deal with than male baldness, but maybe I need to think again about the disabling effects of emotional distress?) and the extent to which wealth protects people like Will Smith and his wife from racism. And more...


Aye, tbh, while I get that "what is the correct take" can come across as "tell me what to think" or "tell me how to be popular", personally I also feel like it should be ok, possibly even encouraged, to say "look, I'm not sure how to feel about this, what do you guys think?" as a way to explore an issue and learn from other perspectives and POVs.

But, then, that might be because it's how I feel about a lot of situations, including this one (which I really haven't 'explored' all that much, tbh, in terms of either watching the incident or seeking out nuanced commentary).


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## Petcha (Mar 28, 2022)

Ricky Gervais goes far further usually in his Golden Globes monologues and as far as I know has escaped bitchy slaps on stage. It's part of the job. You earn $20m a movie or whatever, you get roasted at awards ceremonies. 

Anyway, Will Smith's career will be in tatters for a while but he'll come back. Even Mel Gibson managed to. I doubt he'll be voicing Aladdin etc any time soon though.


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## Sue (Mar 28, 2022)

I'm sorry for Jada Pinkett Smith, having alopecia must be really hard. But this just feels like yet another take on men 'defending' their womenfolk using violence. Which is so fucking old and tedious and _shit_. If that were me, I'd be utterly fucked off at him. (By 'him' I mean Will Smith though I guess I'd be pretty fucked off at Chris Rock too.) 

(Also interesting that initially he laughs along, then he sees his wife rolling her eyes and looking pissed off and it's only then that he heads for the stage.)


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## smmudge (Mar 28, 2022)

Mainly I think, does it need to take up so much news ffs? This is making wfh very boring.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 28, 2022)

Sue said:


> I'm sorry for Jada Pinkett Smith, having alopecia must be really hard. But this just feels like yet another take on men 'defending' their womenfolk using violence. Which is so fucking old and tedious and _shit_. If that were me, I'd be utterly fucked off at him. (By 'him' I mean Will Smith though I guess I'd be pretty fucked off at Chris Rock too.)
> 
> (Also interesting that initially he laughs along, then he sees his wife rolling her eyes and looking pissed off and it's only then that he heads for the stage.)


Exactly this


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## Ax^ (Mar 28, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I assume Chris Rock didn't know about the alopecia. But regardless, no Will Smith, just no. You're a role model. And clearly a fucking dick. True life violence when impressionable kids are watching, no.
> 
> Oh and his portrayal of Richard Williams was ok, not better than Camberbatch though, quite clearly. And the movie (which he executive produced) was completely inaccurate. It skipped out all the bad shit that son of a bitch did and exaggerated his genius.



oh come on , no kids watch the Oscars

and publicly stunt so screw it no one watched or cared about the Oscars last year so drama in this year's

now seeming as Smith trained for the Ali movie if it was real he would of knocked him on his are and not slapped him


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## Lord Camomile (Mar 28, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> oh come on kids watch the Oscars
> 
> and publicly stunt so screw it no one watched or cared about the Oscars last year so drama in this year's
> 
> now seeming as Smith trained for the Ali movie if it was real he would of knocked him on his are and not slapped him


Assuming he wanted to do that, surely? Seen plenty of situations where someone has slapped another person to 'make a point' rather than actually cause serious physical damage.


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## belboid (Mar 28, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> oh come on kids watch the Oscars



Kids haven’t watched the Oscar’s for at least twenty years


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## girasol (Mar 28, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> I was all ready to laugh at OJ but it's an informative thread. It raises many issues, including whether a theatrical slap is violent violence, whether white people's quickness to condemn is a function of racism, and whether alopecia is a disability - with other disabled people arguing that it is (I'd thought of it as disfigurement when it happens to women, so more difficult to deal with than male baldness, but maybe I need to think again about the disabling effects of emotional distress?) and the extent to which wealth protects people like Will Smith and his wife from racism. And more...



Yeah, there's A LOT to unpack...  I don't agree with violence, but I also don't agree with laughing at people's conditions, but also famous people should be able to take a joke, but also no one should have to put up with this shit, and maybe Will Smith (who initially laughed at the joke) was overwhelmed by the occasion - and when he saw Jada's upset face and decided to do something, anything, to show that's not ok to hurt his wife's feelings.  He didn't hit Chris hard, clearly - otherwise he would have fallen over, but still, the use of violence like that will make a lot of comedians think twice from now...  So, yeah, there's a A LOT to think about.

It would have been really cool if Jada herself got up and slapped his face though, instead of Will Smith.

It all seems so dramatic it's really hard to believe it wasn't a set up, but it really seems it wasn't.


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## Ax^ (Mar 28, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Assuming he wanted to do that, surely? Seen plenty of situations where someone has slapped another person to 'make a point' rather than actually cause serious physical damage.



if they end up doing a celebrity boxing match will you at least concide it was a scripted event to garner interest in a boring 4 hour long award show


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## trashpony (Mar 28, 2022)

Sue said:


> I'm sorry for Jada Pinkett Smith, having alopecia must be really hard. But this just feels like yet another take on men 'defending' their womenfolk using violence. Which is so fucking old and tedious and _shit_. If that were me, I'd be utterly fucked off at him. (By 'him' I mean Will Smith though I guess I'd be pretty fucked off at Chris Rock too.)
> 
> (Also interesting that initially he laughs along, then he sees his wife rolling her eyes and looking pissed off and it's only then that he heads for the stage.)


This. All this ‘my wife’ stuff.

Toxic masculinity. And people wonder what we can do about male violence


----------



## Petcha (Mar 28, 2022)

Toe curlingly he then had to accept his award for playing a violent man (the violence largely airbrushed out in the film). His reaction to the whole thing is pretty bizarre too. Performing all his 'hits' at the vanity fair party, rocking out on the dance floor all night with his oscar.


----------



## Elpenor (Mar 28, 2022)

Would have been peak America had Will Smith got a gun out.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Correct thing to do would have been for Smith to hold Rock down while his missus punched him in the face.

Two in the eye for the Patrarchy, that would have been.


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 28, 2022)

Will Smith started his career as a rapper, he should have been able to slap Chris Rock with words - with the number of shit films Rock has appeared in, Smith wouldn't exactly have been short on material.


----------



## Epona (Mar 28, 2022)

Sue said:


> I'm sorry for Jada Pinkett Smith, having alopecia must be really hard. But this just feels like yet another take on men 'defending' their womenfolk using violence. Which is so fucking old and tedious and _shit_. If that were me, I'd be utterly fucked off at him. (By 'him' I mean Will Smith though I guess I'd be pretty fucked off at Chris Rock too.)
> 
> (Also interesting that initially he laughs along, then he sees his wife rolling her eyes and looking pissed off and it's only then that he heads for the stage.)



100% this.

Chris Rock IMO overstepped a line in a directed comment towards an individual about something that is a very sensitive issue (that hinges a lot around female appearance, perceived attractiveness, and self-esteem) and deserved to be called on it, but the way it came across was a bit menfolk fighting for a woman's honour type thing.  Yawn.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Mar 28, 2022)

The Smiths’ relationship has been mad tabloid fodder for years. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of urbanites had missed it due to not clicking on that type of bullshit. But I’ve seen some headlines and I can’t help but think this shit joke was a last straw, even if it wasn’t directed toward their marriage. It’s a fucking nasty mess and has made me really uncomfortable 😕 What a world.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 28, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Ricky Gervais goes far further usually in his Golden Globes monologues ...



If Smith had whacked Gervais, he'd have deserved a medal. 

As it is, he should have been arrested on the spot, taken away in handcuffs, and charged with assault.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 28, 2022)

5t3IIa said:


> The Smiths’ relationship has been mad tabloid fodder for years. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of urbanites had missed it due to not clicking on that type of bullshit. But I’ve seen some headlines and I can’t help but think this shit joke was a last straw, even if it wasn’t directed toward their marriage. It’s a fucking nasty mess and has made me really uncomfortable 😕 What a world.



The last I'd read was that they were in an open marriage type thing a bit like one of the Bee Gees.


----------



## Petcha (Mar 28, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> If Smith had whacked Gervais, he'd have deserved a medal.
> 
> As it is, he should have been arrested on the spot, taken away in handcuffs, and charged with assault.



Yes. He shouldn't be partying knocking back champagne singing gettin jiggy wit it hours after committing common assault. He should have been cuffed. It's not like there's no footage of the incident.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> Will Smith started his career as a rapper, he should have been able to slap Chris Rock with words...



Rock should have let him know in advance so Smith could get his team of writers working on it.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Mar 28, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> The last I'd read was that they were in an open marriage type thing a bit like one of the Bee Gees.


I missed the Bee Gees connection (😬)….and I just tried to type more but it’s all toxic and shit so I won’t 👍🏼


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 28, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Yes. He shouldn't be partying knocking back champagne singing gettin jiggy wit it hours after committing common assault. He should have been cuffed. It's not like there's no footage of the incident.



Chris Rock would rather have the publicity


i.e it is part of the bloody show


----------



## Gromit (Mar 28, 2022)

The question Will needed to ask is what would Idris Elba do?


----------



## Sue (Mar 28, 2022)

Gromit said:


> The question Will needed to ask is what would Idris Elba do?


What? Why?


----------



## RedRedRose (Mar 28, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> As it is, he should have been arrested on the spot, taken away in handcuffs, and charged with assault.


He should be handcuffed for crimes against entertainment! Awful actor.


----------



## Glitter (Mar 28, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> He should be handcuffed for crimes against entertainment! Awful actor.


I won’t hear a word against Independence Day!!!


----------



## RedRedRose (Mar 28, 2022)

And to imagine, that tickle slap on Chris Rock was done by someone who played Muhammad Ali!


----------



## MrCurry (Mar 28, 2022)

I didn’t get the “joke” or why it’s offensive against someone with alopecia, but surely if it wasn’t a prearranged stunt then Will Smith has to get in trouble for this? You can’t go assaulting someone on live TV in front of a big audience then just get a free pass from the police.


----------



## RedRedRose (Mar 28, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> I didn’t get the “joke” or why it’s offensive against someone with alopecia


GI Jane = bald


----------



## Epona (Mar 28, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> I didn’t get the “joke” or why it’s offensive against someone with alopecia, but surely if it wasn’t a prearranged stunt then Will Smith has to get in trouble for this? You can’t go assaulting someone on live TV in front of a big audience then just get a free pass from the police.



He made a reference to the GI Jane movie (in which Demi Moore had a shaved head) while pointing at Jada (asking her how the sequel was going), who has been quite public about her issues with alopecia.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Mar 28, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> You can’t go assaulting someone


All you needed there tbh


----------



## Petcha (Mar 28, 2022)

Chris Rock didn't press charges. But surely the cops can arrest him anyway?


----------



## MrCurry (Mar 28, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> GI Jane = bald





Epona said:


> He made a reference to the GI Jane movie (in which Demi Moore had a shaved head) while pointing at Jada (asking her how the sequel was going), who has been quite public about her issues with alopecia.


Oh, got it.  Well yeah of course it’s wrong but it should have been Chris Rock getting the public condemnation after the event for going too far, rather than Will Smith making himself the bad guy.

I don’t really get this American tradition of hiring a comedian to insult the guests at an award ceremony.  Ricky Gervais has obviously done it and been hired back for multiple occasions to the Golden Globes and now Chris Rock doing the same thing. Why do the celebs keep turning up to these shows?


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 28, 2022)

Anyway as far as the films go I won't be in a rush to watch Coda.

Sounds like the sort of thing you'd imagine from a Hollywood/Apple film about people with disabilities. Maybe the French film it's based on is better.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 28, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Chris Rock didn't press charges. But surely the cops can arrest him anyway?


They don't investigate past crimes.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> I don’t really get this American tradition of hiring a comedian to insult the guests at an award ceremony.



Seems like some kind of odd court jester hangover.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 28, 2022)

I agree with what's been said about men fighting over a woman's 'honour'. 

At the same time, there's a part of me that quite liked the idea that 'doing comedy' isn't a free pass and that if you say deeply personal stuff you might not get away with it.  That's not an excuse for Smith to exercise his masculinity, just a feeling that if you say something designed to be be hurtful and cross the line, you don't do it in an excuse bubble if you are on a stage.  Of course Smith doing this means Rock sort of _did _get away with it.  Far better if someone came to the mic and challenged him. Simple questions like 'why do you think it's okay to come out with stuff like that' would have been far more effective.  And of course it should have been up to Pinkett Smith to decide what if anything was said.

Having said all that, Jimmy Carr, Ricky Gervais et al deserve a serious kicking.


----------



## Epona (Mar 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I agree with what's been said about men fighting over a woman's 'honour'.
> 
> At the same time, there's a part of me that quite liked the idea that 'doing comedy' isn't a free pass and that if you say deeply personal stuff you might not get away with it.  That's not an excuse for Smith to exercise his masculinity, just a feeling that if you say something designed to be be hurtful and cross the line, you don't do it in an excuse bubble if you are on a stage.  Of course Smith doing this means Rock sort of _did _get away with it.  Far better if someone came to the mic and challenged him. Simple questions like 'why do you think it's okay to come out with stuff like that' would have been far more effective.  And of course it should have been up to Pinkett Smith to decide what if anything was said.
> 
> Having said all that, Jimmy Carr, Ricky Gervais et al deserve a serious kicking.



Liked except for the last line - I mean I don't like them but not worth physical violence.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Mar 28, 2022)

Will Smith's acceptance speech was pretty _out there._  He seems to think he's on some sort of god-given mission.

"Richard Williams was a fierce defender of his family.  In this time in my life, in this moment, I am overwhelmed by what God is calling on me to do and be in this world.

"Making this film, I got to protect Aunjanue Ellis, who is one of the most strongest, most delicate people I’ve ever met. I got to protect Saniyya [Sidney] and Demi [Singleton], the two actresses that play Venus and Serena. I’m being called on in my life to love people. And to protect people and to be a river to my people.

"I know, to do what we do, you gotta be able to take abuse. You gotta be able to have people talk crazy about you. In this business, you gotta be able to have people disrespecting you, and you gotta smile and pretend like that’s OK.

"Denzel [Washington] said to me a few minutes ago, 'At your highest moment, be careful, that’s when the devil comes for you.' I want to be a vessel for love. I want to say thank you to Venus and Serena … and the entire Williams family for entrusting me with your story.

"That’s what I want to do. I want to be an ambassador of that kind of love and care and concern. I want to apologize to the Academy, I want to apologize to all my fellow nominees. This is a beautiful moment and I’m not crying for winning an award.

"It’s not about winning an award for me; it’s about being able to shine a light on all the people … and the entire cast and crew of King Richard and Venus and Serena and the entire Williams family. Art imitates life. I look like the crazy father, just like they said about Richard Williams! But, love will make you do crazy things."

"To my mother, a lot of this moment is really complicated for me, but to my mother — she didn’t want to come out, she has her knitting friends, she has a knitting crew she’s watching with — being able to love and care for my mother and my family and my wife — I’m taking up too much time — thank you for this honor.

"Thank you for this moment. I thank you on behalf of Richard and Oracene and the entire Williams family. Thank you. I’m hoping the Academy invites me back. Thank you."

A river for your people?  fucks sake.


----------



## Voley (Mar 28, 2022)

Can't see what all the fuss is about tbh.

This kind of stuff happens all the time when a couple of guys who are up to no good start making trouble in your neighbourhood.


----------



## Raheem (Mar 28, 2022)

Voley said:


> Can't see what all the fuss is about tbh.
> 
> This kind of stuff happens all the time when a couple of guys who are up to no good start making trouble in your neighbourhood.


He got in one little fight...


----------



## Sue (Mar 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I agree with what's been said about men fighting over a woman's 'honour'.
> 
> At the same time, there's a part of me that quite liked the idea that 'doing comedy' isn't a free pass and that if you say deeply personal stuff you might not get away with it.  That's not an excuse for Smith to exercise his masculinity, just a feeling that if you say something designed to be be hurtful and cross the line, you don't do it in an excuse bubble if you are on a stage.  Of course Smith doing this means Rock sort of _did _get away with it.  Far better if someone came to the mic and challenged him. Simple questions like 'why do you think it's okay to come out with stuff like that' would have been far more effective.  And of course it should have been up to Pinkett Smith to decide what if anything was said.
> 
> Having said all that, Jimmy Carr, Ricky Gervais et al deserve a serious kicking.


It also turned what was a shit but throwaway joke into a huge news story. I mean, I don't think most of us would have even been aware the joke had been made and I certainly would have had no idea about Pinkett Smith's alopecia without this nonsense. (Could be Pinkett Smith wants to raise awareness of alopecia for all I know -- and good luck to her if she does -- but his actions feel unhelpful and extremely disempowering in this context.)  



ElizabethofYork said:


> Will Smith's acceptance speech was pretty _out there._  He seems to think he's on some sort of god-given mission.
> 
> "Richard Williams was a fierce defender of his family.  In this time in my life, in this moment, I am overwhelmed by what God is calling on me to do and be in this world.
> 
> ...


All this protecting, masculinity bullshit. What an absolute twat.


----------



## electroplated (Mar 28, 2022)

Raheem said:


> He got in one little fight...


'and my Mom got scared, I said, "Don't be telling jokes about my wife's lack of hair".'


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 28, 2022)

It looks fake to me.  I'm not convinced it wasn't a stunt that went a bit wrong.  If it were real, Chris Rock's face would have been swollen later.


----------



## xenon (Mar 28, 2022)

I just heard this.

Meh, really.

Shouldn't go around slapping people obv. But insulting someone over what could be quite obviously a touchy issue, can't complain if you get a robust action from them or one of their loved ones. This doesn't excuse Will Smith but it was a slap, not a beating.

I do take the point that it wreaks a bit of patriarchy. No argument on that.

But the rest, bollocks to all the handringing. Fine Smith and move on.


----------



## xenon (Mar 28, 2022)

I never watch the Oscas. The celeb roasting thing can be pretty funny though if all involved are signed up for that kinda shtick. I don't know attending this award ceremony actually means you have though.


----------



## girasol (Mar 28, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Toe curlingly he then had to accept his award for playing a violent man (the violence largely airbrushed out in the film). His reaction to the whole thing is pretty bizarre too. Performing all his 'hits' at the vanity fair party, rocking out on the dance floor all night with his oscar.




that looks like the least fun, most contrived/staged thing ever.  Most people are just filming.  Bleurgh.  Are they even drunk and/or enjoying the party???


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 28, 2022)

girasol said:


> that looks like the least fun, most contrived/staged thing ever.  Most people are just filming.  Bleurgh.  Are they even drunk and/or enjoying the party???



I don't think people go to those parties to enjoy themselves.  They go to be seen and photographed.

TBH, I think we should just accept that award shows are past their sell-by date.  They belong back in the 1970s with celebrity roasts, variety shows, and kiddie tv westerns.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Mar 28, 2022)

I wonder if Champion the Wonder Horse is worth digging out for a rewatch 🤔


----------



## bcuster (Mar 28, 2022)




----------



## spanglechick (Mar 28, 2022)

While having lots of problems (see below) with what Smith did and said, I have no sympathy for Chris Rock.  Mocking a woman with Alopecia is low.  It’s a horrible condition, especially for women given how there is no expectation of baldness for women in middle age.  She will, I’m sure, have felt especially exposed and vulnerable about it on this occasion, with the red carpet and all the world’s press.  A brave face is not hewn from iron.  Fuck Chris Rock. 

And I can easily see that Smith, being aware of all her fears and bravery, plus being amped up for what might be the single biggest moment of recognition in his career… I can see he had little mental/emotional space to sit back from the jibe.  

But

it wasn’t his fucking fight. Jada Pinkett Smith has her own voice.  White knighting is bullshit.
male violence.  Male violence is a fucking epidemic, and a culture that tolerates this is the same culture that beats children and has depressing rates of intimate partner violence.  To be clear, I don’t imagine Smith does either of those, but men who do, will take reassurance from this kind of shite machismo as part of the ambient tapestry of influences we all are vulnerable to feeding our sense of self from.
shouting Rock down, telling him off, is one thing, but the words “take my wife’s name out of your fucking mouth” is all about ownership.  MY wife. YOU’RE not allowed because she’s MY wife.  Ugh.  Just so revoltingly possessive.

Anyway.  That’s my unsolicited opinion.


----------



## Epona (Mar 28, 2022)

spanglechick said:


> While having lots of problems (see below) with what Smith did and said, I have no sympathy for Chris Rock.  Mocking a woman with Alopecia is low.  It’s a horrible condition, especially for women given how there is no expectation of baldness for women in middle age.  She will, I’m sure, have felt especially exposed and vulnerable about it on this occasion, with the red carpet and all the world’s press.  A brave face is not hewn from iron.  Fuck Chris Rock.
> 
> And I can easily see that Smith, being aware of all her fears and bravery, plus being amped up for what might be the single biggest moment of recognition in his career… I can see he had little mental/emotional space to sit back from the jibe.
> 
> ...



Fucking spot on.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

I’m wondering about the dynamics seeing how Smith laughed along with the joke initially, then there seems to be a little pause before rage mode is activated, during which the cameras are not on him.

Shame Rock wasn’t a little quicker after the event seeing how “keep my wife’s name out of your mouth” was an open goal for a killer comeback. 
Then again, maybe Rock felt a little sheepish, or perhaps pulled a verbal punch as a return favour for Smith’s pulled physical one.


----------



## D'wards (Mar 28, 2022)

I personally didn't think it was that cruel of a joke.
Demi Moore looked hot as G.I Jane, and that's what Rock kind of said.

I think Jada hasn't got much of a sense of humour, she was pissed off earlier in the night about a joke one of the hosts made about shagging Will or something


----------



## Epona (Mar 28, 2022)

D'wards said:


> I personally didn't think it was that cruel of a joke.
> Demi Moore looked hot as G.I Jane, and that's what Rock kind of said.
> 
> I think Jada hasn't got much of a sense of humour, she was pissed off earlier in the night about a joke one of the hosts made about shagging Will or something



You try being a woman and having your hair fall out/get bald spots and then see how much sense of humour you have about it.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Mar 28, 2022)

D'wards said:


> I personally didn't think it was that cruel of a joke.
> Demi Moore looked hot as G.I Jane, and that's what Rock kind of said.
> 
> I think Jada hasn't got much of a sense of humour, she was pissed off earlier in the night about a joke one of the hosts made about shagging Will or something


Oh, she should gave been _grateful_. And lighten up a bit. That it?


----------



## Sue (Mar 28, 2022)

catsbum said:


> Oh, she should gave been _grateful_. And lighten up a bit. That it?


She just can't take a joke obviously.


----------



## Epona (Mar 28, 2022)

Women should obviously be grateful when someone publicly points out an aspect of their appearance and makes jokes about it.


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 28, 2022)

In the US, Smith seems to be getting the most support from Black women, while white men seem more in favour of getting the police involved.

_I don’t approve of the macho bullshit, but I have to note that a lot of Black women on social media appreciated the slap. This includes Rep. Ayanna Pressley, another beautiful bald Black woman with alopecia. She tweeted, "Alopecia nation stand up! Thank you #WillSmith Shout out to all the husbands who defend their wives living with alopecia in the face of daily ignorance & insults.” She later deleted the tweet because she’s not a Republican. She can’t justify supporting violence.

Journalist Cara Reed tweeted, "I don't think people understand how tiring it is for disabled people to constantly have to take it for the sake of comedy. Chris Rock used to target my community. It gets old, especially from someone who is also disabled. This is a disability issue.”_









						So, Will Smith Really Slapped Chris Rock During The Live MFing Oscars
					

OK, Rock was an asshole, but violence is never the answer.




					www.wonkette.com


----------



## Mumbles274 (Mar 28, 2022)

The power move by will Smith and his wife, would have been to get up and leave. He chose violence. Fuck both those men, both cunts and agree 100% with trashpony


----------



## Aladdin (Mar 28, 2022)

D'wards said:


> I personally didn't think it was that cruel of a joke.
> Demi Moore looked hot as G.I Jane, and that's what Rock kind of said.
> 
> I think Jada hasn't got much of a sense of humour, she was pissed off earlier in the night about a joke one of the hosts made about shagging Will or something




You don't make fun of someone's appearance ...unless you're a nasty cunt.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Mar 28, 2022)

I improvised a session to run for each of my twelve classes this week, prompted by this incident. Only one session on Mondays which was interesting. A significant number of the (all male) students in the class said Smith was justified, but I prompted some discussion about male ego, toxic masculinity, women's voices being silenced, women being judged on looks not actions, etc etc. And then linked it all to the One Punch Can Kill campaign from a few years ago but which is as relevant a concept as ever. Was hard to hear some young men don't know another way to react than with violence or aggression.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Mar 28, 2022)

Leaving would have also put an end to the shit show that is awards like this. Fucking read the room you rich cunts. Everyone else is struggling and you are celebrating


----------



## nogojones (Mar 28, 2022)

bcuster said:


>



Well that all seems very WWF


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> …she later deleted the tweet because she’s not a Republican. She can’t justify supporting violence.



Well, that’s pretty surreal.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 28, 2022)

It seems that fame and money cannot imbue a sense of how to behave properly.


----------



## trashpony (Mar 28, 2022)

Mumbles274 said:


> The power move by will Smith and his wife, would have been to get up and leave. He chose violence. Fuck both those men, both cunts and agree 100% with trashpony


Yes! Can you imagine if they’d done that? The whole schtick of the compere throwing shade at the audience (getting ever more offensive year on year) would be over.

It would have rocked the whole thing. But he went for the lazy shit male violence option.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> In the US, Smith seems to be getting the most support from Black women, while white men seem more in favour of getting the police involved.
> 
> _I don’t approve of the macho bullshit, but I have to note that a lot of Black women on social media appreciated the slap. This includes Rep. Ayanna Pressley, another beautiful bald Black woman with alopecia. She tweeted, "Alopecia nation stand up! Thank you #WillSmith Shout out to all the husbands who defend their wives living with alopecia in the face of daily ignorance & insults.” She later deleted the tweet because she’s not a Republican. She can’t justify supporting violence.
> 
> ...



That article is brilliantly funny, but to avoid accusations of racism the author should have included cases of the other racial combinations of men who have slapped each other at the Oscars.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Mar 28, 2022)

trashpony said:


> Yes! Can you imagine if they’d done that? The whole schtick of the compere throwing shade at the audience (getting ever more offensive year on year) would be over.
> 
> It would have rocked the whole thing. But he went for the lazy shit male violence option.


Exactly! How much of a statement if leading actor walks out before getting his Oscar. What happened after shows how much that aspect was vital for the show to go on. Fuck them all


----------



## ouirdeaux (Mar 28, 2022)

I know humour is subjective, but it's not much of a joke, is it? I've heard jokes I'd consider objectionable for various reasons, but which still prompted a guilty chuckle, because they were amusing on some level. This isn't one of them.


----------



## Maltin (Mar 28, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> I know humour is subjective, but it's not much of a joke, is it? I've heard jokes I'd consider objectionable for various reasons, but which still prompted a guilty chuckle, because they were amusing on some level. This isn't one of them.


Will Smith seemed to find it funny initially.


----------



## D'wards (Mar 28, 2022)

It should be viewed in context of this far more cutting joke he made about her 6 years ago. 
There's history there although Will seemed to be enjoying it including the rather lame joke in question


----------



## D'wards (Mar 28, 2022)

Viewing figures up from last year but still awful compared to the heyday. 









						Oscars ratings up 50% on last year but still second worst in history
					

Changes made to the format this year may have increased viewership but the program still struggled to attract an audience




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 28, 2022)

8ball said:


> That article is brilliantly funny, but to avoid accusations of racism the author should have included cases of the other racial combinations of men who have slapped each other at the Oscars.



Robinson is Black - I think he summed it all up pretty well with these lines.

_This was a great night for Black folks, but now all our white coworkers are gonna ask us what we thought about Smith smacking Rock.

I can’t believe I have to say this, but you shouldn’t hit someone even if they’re gross and take cheap shots at your wife._


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> Robinson is Black - I think he summed it all up pretty well with these lines.
> 
> _This was a great night for Black folks, but now all our white coworkers are gonna ask us what we thought about Smith smacking Rock.
> 
> I can’t believe I have to say this, but you shouldn’t hit someone even if they’re gross and take cheap shots at your wife._



I meant the “first Black man to slap another Black man at the Oscars” comment.  I want to know when a white (White?) man slapped a white man.  

Or just who slapped who, and when.

Certainly a white man slapping a black man, or vice versa, would be edgy in very different ways but there is a world of slapper/slappee combinations out there.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 28, 2022)

I'm still not certain it wasn't a setup that went a bit wonky, but I could be wrong.  Here's a Tik Tok posted to Will Smith's account before the Oscars:



It could just be a "don't we look great" video.  Either way, it doesn't age well.


----------



## Maltin (Mar 28, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Anyway as far as the films go I won't be in a rush to watch Coda.
> 
> Sounds like the sort of thing you'd imagine from a Hollywood/Apple film about people with disabilities. Maybe the French film it's based on is better.


I thought it was very good. What sort of thing do you imagine it to be? The deaf actors in it were exceptional. The father in particular was very funny. The (non-deaf) daughter (Aled Jones’ daughter) was excellent too.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Mar 28, 2022)

Dillian _Whyte _v _Oscar_ Rivas......


----------



## Elpenor (Mar 28, 2022)

Where’s the punch Chris Rock page on urban?


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Not saying Will had a sniffle, but he has dropped a good deal of weight recently.


----------



## Reno (Mar 28, 2022)

I think Will Smith just lost control due to the tension of whether he is going to win. With the possible exception of Tom Cruise, there is nobody who compares to him in terms sheer ambition and in micro-managing their career (and their  image as an affable nice guy). After climbing to the top of the list of most bankeable stars, he started starring in obvious Oscar bait, he's been after that award for decades. Then he blows it minutes before what was supposed to be the crowning moment of his career. Everybody is talking about him slapping Chris Rock now, nobody is talking about his win.


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 28, 2022)

Maltin said:


> I thought it was very good. What sort of thing do you imagine it to be? The deaf actors in it were exceptional. The father in particular was very funny. The (non-deaf) daughter (Aled Jones’ daughter) was excellent too.


I was thinking more like something schmaltzy with clichés fudged into a feel good story that I could feel very cynical about.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Reno said:


> I think Will Smith just lost control due to the tension of whether he is going to win. With the possible exception of Tom Cruise, there is nobody who compares to him in terms sheer ambition and in micro-managing their career (and their  image as an affable nice guy). After climbing to the top of the list of most bankeable stars, he started starring in obvious Oscar bait, he's been after that award for decades. Then he blows it minutes before what was supposed to be the crowning moment of his career. Everybody is talking about him slapping Chris Rock now, nobody is talking about his win.



What Denzel Washington said to Smith afterward supports that, I reckon.


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2022)

Reno said:


> I think Will Smith just lost control due to the tension of whether he is going to win. With the possible exception of Tom Cruise, there is nobody who compares to him in terms sheer ambition and in micro-managing their career (and their  image as an affable nice guy). After climbing to the top of the list of most bankeable stars, he started starring in obvious Oscar bait, he's been after that award for decades. Then he blows it minutes before what was supposed to be the crowning moment of his career. Everybody is talking about him slapping Chris Rock now, nobody is talking about his win.


Or, more importantly, talking about the achievements of women:










						Oscars 2022: a historic night for women – overshadowed by male violence
					

If Jane Campion becomes the third woman ever to win best director but Will Smith slaps Chris Rock, did it really happen?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## D'wards (Mar 28, 2022)

Reno said:


> I think Will Smith just lost control due to the tension of whether he is going to win. With the possible exception of Tom Cruise, there is nobody who compares to him in terms sheer ambition and in micro-managing their career (and their  image as an affable nice guy). After climbing to the top of the list of most bankeable stars, he started starring in obvious Oscar bait, he's been after that award for decades. Then he blows it minutes before what was supposed to be the crowning moment of his career. Everybody is talking about him slapping Chris Rock now, nobody is talking about his win.


For someone as hugely famous as Will Smith i think he has made very few great films, if any, and a whole lot of shit.

Edit- Men in Black was great


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 28, 2022)

EVERYONE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT!
Publicity stunt.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

editor said:


> Or, more importantly, talking about the achievements of women:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



People care about the Oscars a hell of a lot less than they used to (viewing figures for Oscars, Grammys and Emmies have been in free-fall for a decade now).  

Means anything really dramatic is even more likely to overshadow achievements that are less headline-worthy.

The Smiths and Rock have been friends since they were barely more than kids, which makes me wonder what else is up.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a divorce happens  in the next year or so.  Something is a bit borked.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 28, 2022)

8ball said:


> People care about the Oscars a hell of a lot less than they used to (viewing figures for Oscars, Grammys and Emmies have been in free-fall for a decade now).



I haven't seen a single nominated film this year.  There's so many streaming services and small-run productions that don't play where I live that its impossible to develop an interest in the Oscars.  Add to that the tendency of the Academy to cut anything that's interesting, such as the actual awards, in favor of filler like crappy monologs and song and dance numbers, and its even less interesting than watching paint dry.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I haven't seen a single nominated film this year.  There's so many streaming services and small-run productions that don't play where I live that its impossible to develop any interest in the Oscars.



Yeah, the streaming stuff has been growing for years and the pandemic has hit really hard too.

I’m lucky to have several small independent cinemas near me, but the overall industry seems to have been kept afloat by lowest common denominator pap.

I can also see why people might go to their mates’ opinions mixed with rottentomatoes and similar when choosing what to watch.  The whole big-spending back-slapping shebang is wearing a bit too.


----------



## Maltin (Mar 28, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> I was thinking more like something schmaltzy with clichés fudged into a feel good story that I could feel very cynical about.


I’m sure some cynical people will view it like that but I found it a good story with great performances.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 28, 2022)

pretty crazy footage. but man did it looked stage. even had teh swack! sound affect. don't knwo what to make of it, if it was a postman who done it to a boss he'd be knicked now and losing his job.


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## BernardM (Mar 28, 2022)

> I’m sure some cynical people will view it like that but I found it a good story with great performances.



That's exactly what it is. I found it very sweet and funny but it's not the kind of movie for everyone.


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 28, 2022)

The fact that this is now the most talked-about Oscars in years makes me wonder if the Academy is going to try to get the most combustible mix possible of people onstage next year.

In a few decades, old-timers might be talking about how they can remember when The Academy Presents Celebrity Cagefights used to be an awards show.


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 28, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> EVERYONE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT!
> Publicity stunt.



in my defense it's the bloody oscars


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> The fact that this is now the most talked-about Oscars in years makes me wonder if the Academy is going to try to get the most combustible mix possible of people onstage next year.
> 
> In a few decades, old-timers might be talking about how they can remember when The Academy Presents Celebrity Cagefights used to be an awards show.



As appealing as that sounds, I think the genie is out of the bottle now and people will just watch the best bits of the fights on YouTube the next day.


----------



## Reno (Mar 28, 2022)

D'wards said:


> For someone as hugely famous as Will Smith i think he has made very few great films, if any, and a whole lot of shit.
> 
> Edit- Men in Black was great


That's true, there isn't much in his filmography I care for. My favourite film of his is one of his first, Six Degrees of Separation and he's great in it.


----------



## D'wards (Mar 28, 2022)




----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Bad Boys?  Independence Day?

Bloody philistines round these parts…


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 28, 2022)

Reno said:


> That's true, there isn't much in his filmography I care for. My favourite film of his is one of his first, Six Degrees of Separation and he's great in it.


only time will smith really acted


----------



## Epona (Mar 28, 2022)

8ball said:


> Bad Boys?  Independence Day?
> 
> Bloody philistines round these parts…



Independence Day was shit though.  I mean I love sci fi and I love apocalyptic stuff and I love alien spaceships and explosions, and I thought it was shit.


----------



## D'wards (Mar 28, 2022)

Epona said:


> Independence Day was shit though.  I mean I love sci fi and I love apocalyptic stuff and I love alien spaceships and explosions, and I thought it was shit.


It was great up until the dog jumped in the doorway in the tunnel. 
First half was basically first half of Childhood's End by Arthur C Clarke.
I do also love an aggressive alien


----------



## 8ball (Mar 28, 2022)

Epona said:


> Independence Day was shit though.  I mean I love sci fi and I love apocalyptic stuff and I love alien spaceships and explosions, and I thought it was shit.



I loved it.  Everyone I went with hated it.
This may have been down to the fact that I thought I was watching a spoof.


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 28, 2022)

i think we can all still giggle about turning down the matrix for wild wild west


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 28, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> i think we can all still giggle about turning down the matrix for wild wild west



Lucky escape from the Matrix sequels there.


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 28, 2022)

image smith as john wick

maybe not a good career move

matrix sequels and john wick

or wild wild west, handcok, a bad boys and then aladdin


----------



## Clair De Lune (Mar 28, 2022)

It was a pretty real moment for such a fake glitzy event eh.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 28, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> i think we can all still giggle about turning down the matrix for wild wild west


Whenever I think of _Wild Wild West_ I'm reminded of Kevin Smith's Jon Peters anecdote 🤣


----------



## D'wards (Mar 29, 2022)

Interesting reading Smith's reasons for turning down Django in light of the incident. 








						Will Smith reveals the real reason he turned down Django Unchained
					

Smith referenced the recent Paris terrorist attacks when discussing his attitude to violence and revenge




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Petcha (Mar 29, 2022)

Well, I'm sure this took an army of PRs to craft. There's no way he'll be stripped of his Oscar though, the 5th black man in history to win it, not in the current climate.


----------



## Petcha (Mar 29, 2022)

I still don't know why he's not behind bars though. If I did that to someone I certainly would be.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I still don't know why he's not behind bars though. If I did that to someone I certainly would be.



Yeah, and it has been mentioned that it was kind of sinister in light of the Weinstein business etc. that an assault happened in front of that many people and just a few minutes later it was as if nothing had happened.

That said, I think Smith is in a bad place right now and while it isn’t even handed treatment, I’m not sure dragging him away in cuffs would have served much of a useful purpose at the time or immediately afterwards.

That’s a bit mealy-mouthed and I could change my mind on that but he seems like a guy who is suffering when by all normal indicators he should have the world at his feet.


----------



## Petcha (Mar 29, 2022)

Well. Richard Partridge, sorry Madeley came out today and said that Chris Rock was the most horrible person he'd ever interviewed and they had to cobble together the bits where he wasn't a total fuckwit into one clip.

And I trust in the Madeley. So maybe Smith was putting things right. I'd like to see Richard take a pop at him himself next time they cross paths.









						Richard Madeley: Chris Rock the 'most unpleasant celebrity' he's ever interviewed
					

'He was the most unpleasant, rude, aggressive, unlikeable human being I've ever interviewed on camera.'




					metro.co.uk


----------



## RedRedRose (Mar 29, 2022)

Chris Rock made a low jibe at Smith's wife, and Smith had multiple ways to show his disapproval; ultimately, he decided on assaulting Rock. I suspect the origins of the assault are more to do with the guilt he felt at laughing at his own wife's condition, than anything else.

The guy should have his Oscar rescinded.


----------



## albionism (Mar 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well, I'm sure this took an army of PRs to craft. There's no way he'll be stripped of his Oscar though, the 5th black man in history to win it, not in the current climate.



"I reacted emotionally", yeah Will, you laughed with everyone else until you saw how vexxed Jada was.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Mar 29, 2022)

Noticeable that "I reacted emotionally" = committing a violent act. Even in a crafted PR release the toxic masculinity is baked in.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2022)

catsbum said:


> Noticeable that "I reacted emotionally" = committing a violent act. Even in a crafted PR release the toxic masculinity is baked in.


Makes you think what he would do in fury if that’s how he reacts to a joke (tho a pretty nasty one)


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2022)

I think the tide is turning on him. I’m so untouchable I can commit criminal offences whenever etc


----------



## RedRedRose (Mar 29, 2022)

I thought this was an excellent summary of Smith's antics. 

Will Smith went low by slapping Chris Rock. In his attempt to justify it, he went even lower | Joseph Harker


----------



## girasol (Mar 29, 2022)

I don't think he should be stripped of his Oscar but he should be charged, like an ordinary person would.  He'd probably just get a caution, first offence, Chris Rock doesn't want to prosecute, but that shouldn't be a deterrent as there's plenty of evidence. A slap in the face with not even bruising is minor assault.

Will should donate money to victims too, he's stinking rich.  If did something stupid like that, and plenty of us have done things we regret, I'd be wanting to make amends.  So, yeah, a generous donation to a fitting charity would be a good thing to do for someone in his position.


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## Petcha (Mar 29, 2022)

He didn't deserve the Oscar anyway. It was a made for TV quality of movie and performance. Cumberbatch was robbed.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

girasol said:


> I don't think he should be stripped of his Oscar but he should be charged, like an ordinary person would.  He'd probably just get a caution, first offence, Chris Rock doesn't want to prosecute, but that shouldn't be a deterrent as there's plenty of evidence. A slap in the face with not even bruising is minor assault.
> 
> Will should donate money to victims too, he's stinking rich.  If did something stupid like that, and plenty of us have done things we regret, I'd be wanting to make amends.  So, yeah, a generous donation to a fitting authority would be a good thing to do for someone in his position.



That looks very reasonable under the circumstances.   Though I'm not sure completely about the legal situation given Smith's previous re: a historical aggravated assault charge (in 1989).


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 29, 2022)

8ball said:


> Though I'm not sure completely about the legal situation given Smith's previous re: a historical aggravated assault charge (in 1989).



That was pretty serious too. His mum sent him to live with his aunty and uncle in Bel Air afterwards.


----------



## Petcha (Mar 29, 2022)

Wow.. just wow.









						White outrage about Will Smith’s slap is rooted in anti-Blackness. It’s inequality in plain sight | Tayo Bero
					

This kind of performative pearl-clutching is only ever reserved for Black men who mess up, says Guardian US writer Tayo Bero




					www.theguardian.com
				




This is really stretching it. What a fucking stupid article. How does shit like this get published in a major newspaper. 



> it’s clear that the backlash against Smith is rooted in not just anti-Blackness, but respectability politics as well.





> I also find it hard to believe that the same white audiences who consume violence against Black people on screen to an almost fetishistic degree (and are quite happy to have the Academy reward these gratuitously violent projects year after year) are so distraught about an open-palm slap. Again, this kind of performative pearl-clutching is only ever reserved for Black men who mess up.


----------



## MickiQ (Mar 29, 2022)

I'm on Team Smith on this one, Chris Rock comes across as a smug unpleasant and self-entitled cunt at the best of times, Yes Will Smith shouldn't have smacked someone in the gob in public but it's hard to be too critical of him.
As for prosecution why? there are are worse brawls outside pubs on a Saturday night that just end up with a police caution. A public apology is enough.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Mar 29, 2022)

Will there be an announcement about Will Smith being in rehab shortly, I wonder.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Wow.. just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




"Black people on screen to an almost fetishistic degree (and are quite happy to have the Academy reward these gratuitously violent projects year after year) are so distraught about an open-palm slap. Again, this kind of performative pearl-clutching is only ever reserved for Black men who mess up."

so if Brad Pitt or someone done the same we would all just move on the instant after? what a load of bollocks.


----------



## bluescreen (Mar 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Wow.. just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not really fair. It's a thought-provoking article.


> *Most people agree the slap shouldn’t have happened*. But there’s something that feels precious at best, and downright racist at worst, about white people’s reaction to the now-infamous smack. The Hollywood director Judd Apatow declared in a deleted tweet that Smith “could have killed” Rock (seriously?), calling it “pure out of control rage and violence”. Apatow later confirmed he wasn’t even watching the show when he made the remarks.[...] white women on Twitter somehow decided that Smith’s actions meant he must be beating his wife. It would seem that there’s *a layer of hyper-violence that’s being projected on to Smith* simply because he is a Black man who was defending his Black wife.


(my bold)

I agree it's a bit of a stretch to compare it to the treatment of John Wayne's stage-rush attempt _50 years ago _ and declare double standards. I reckon these days there'd have been outrage if it had been a white on white incident in these circs. What we have here is an added sense of _disappointment, _that undoubtedly has a racial element:


> it’s clear that many people (even those in the community who mean well) only find the incident so objectionable because they hoped Smith would perform propriety for white people in that space [sc  "space notorious for its overwhelming whiteness"].



He's a role model, but context is important. If he'd done this in a supermarket carpark it wouldn't have the same impact - except that Rock's provocation depended on the context (of this mass audience) to occur in the first place.

Then there are the points made about alopecia and the politics of black women's hair, which are worth reading, particularly by those of us who are not black women. See also the article in Kenosha Times referred to by Tayo Bero.

But there's possibly something to object to here, and it's not the allegation of racism:


> this kind of punching down on Black women remains typical of many Black male comedians who, like the rest of the world, don’t see Black women’s struggles and experiences as real or legitimate. And this lack of care for Black women also partly explains why people were so taken aback by the image of Smith standing up for his wife in that way. The world is so used to seeing *Black women as unworthy of being protected and fought for* that it can’t see any merit to Smith’s actions or the emotions that spurred them.


(my bold)
because I'm guessing a lot of black women wouldn't welcome 'being protected and fought for', particularly like this.


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## xenon (Mar 29, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> I'm on Team Smith on this one, Chris Rock comes across as a smug unpleasant and self-entitled cunt at the best of times, Yes Will Smith shouldn't have smacked someone in the gob in public but it's hard to be too critical of him.
> As for prosecution why? there are are worse brawls outside pubs on a Saturday night that just end up with a police caution. A public apology is enough.



Tend to agree. Though if he were fined and the money went to anti violence campaigns as such, would be fair enough.

But as for rescinding the award. What a load of bollocks. Weinstein still has his...


----------



## Petcha (Mar 29, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Not really fair. It's a thought-provoking article.
> 
> (my bold)
> 
> ...



Sorry, but no. It's batshit. From your quote:



> Most people agree the slap shouldn’t have happened. But there’s something that feels precious at best, and downright racist at worst, about white people’s reaction to the now-infamous smack. The Hollywood director Judd Apatow declared in a deleted tweet that Smith “could have killed” Rock (seriously?), calling it “pure out of control rage and violence”. Apatow later confirmed he wasn’t even watching the show when he made the remarks.[...] white women on Twitter somehow decided that Smith’s actions meant he must be beating his wife.* It would seem that there’s a layer of hyper-violence that’s being projected on to Smith simply because he is a Black man who was defending his Black wife.*



Yes. He was a black man valiantly defending his black wife's honour by administering a cowardly sucker slap, against a... black man. But race has nothing to do with this anyway. Smith has been condemned across the whole spectrum, black, white, brown whatever. This is not a helpful angle to take. It's like it's written by an A level student. No idea how or why it got published.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2022)

" But there’s something that feels *precious at best, and downright racist at worst*, about white people’s reaction to the now-infamous smack. "

Okay how does he want us to react then? Nice work Will, bit of criminal assualt at work. No probs. Lets move on.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2022)

any negative comments about Will's slap: "*precious at best, and downright racist at worst"*


----------



## RedRedRose (Mar 29, 2022)

The Joseph Harker piece I linked to previously said Smith was 'raceless', which makes a lot of sense to me. His mainstream affluent credentials transcend his race. In this sense he's fairly unique in how he's presented. He's consumed by white audiences in a manner that is totally different to say Samuel L. Jackson or Morgan Freeman. On that level, linking him explicitly to being black, doesn't really work.


----------



## killer b (Mar 29, 2022)

BigMoaner said:


> any negative comments about Will's slap: "*precious at best, and downright racist at worst"*


Many of the negative comments I've seen about this have absolutely been precious or racist tbf.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> The Joseph Harker piece I linked to previously said Smith was 'raceless', which makes a lot of sense to me. His mainstream affluent credentials transcend his race. In this sense he's fairly unique in how he's presented. He's consumed by white audiences in a manner that is totally different to say Samuel L. Jackson or Morgan Freeman. On that level, linking him explicitly to being black, doesn't really work.



Has no one said Smith was "enacting whiteness" yet?


----------



## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Sorry, but no. It's batshit. From your quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. He was a black man valiantly defending his black wife's honour by administering a cowardly sucker slap, against a... black man. But race has nothing to do with this anyway. Smith has been condemned across the whole spectrum, black, white, brown whatever. This is not a helpful angle to take. It's like it's written by an A level student. No idea how or why it got published.



A shade unfair to A level students there.


----------



## JimW (Mar 29, 2022)

Must admit my first thought was "fair enough" but take all the points about problematic masculinity. Still just a slap though so while I'm not Team Smith definitely not something that should be prosecuted if Rock's not going to.


----------



## killer b (Mar 29, 2022)

JimW said:


> Must admit my first thought was "fair enough" but take all the points about problematic masculinity. Still just a slap though so while I'm not Team Smith definitely not something that should e prosecuted if Rock's not going to.


I'm in team jesus christ are people still going on about this, so I've no idea why I've decided to enter the fray today.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Mar 29, 2022)




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## belboid (Mar 29, 2022)

The bit in the bible about Jesus turning the other cheek was (according to proper church going Christian’s I used to work with) an attempt to make his oppo look soft by forcing him to slap JC ‘like a girl’ (ie with the palm of his hand). It was one of two examples they gave of jokes in the bible.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Mar 29, 2022)

belboid said:


> The bit in the bible about Jesus turning the other cheek was (according to proper church going Christian’s I used to work with) an attempt to make his oppo look soft by forcing him to slap JC ‘like a girl’ (ie with the palm of his hand). It was one of two examples they gave of jokes in the bible.


What was the other? The idea of god?


----------



## Diamond (Mar 29, 2022)

Appalling judgment from both men is the place to start, I think.

On Rock's part, the joke was not particularly funny (GI Jane jokes were weak in the 90s - they are weaker still now) and, crucially, it went after someone because they look weird as a result of their ill health.  That could hardly be closer to the bone and, in total, it looked less like a poor quality joke and more like a very barbed insult.

On Smith's part, I don't see a man losing control at all.  Everything he did, he just as well could not have done.  At no point does he give the impression of being a man overruled by his passions.  The odd thing about it for me was the oddly unconvincing nature of it all - not even Rock seemed 100% sure about the intent behind it even as he was joking about being slapped.  It was a performance, quickly calculated and pre-meditated in the moment and, for the life of me, I can't work out what on earth he thought he would gain by it.  The behaviour of a slightly insecure man, surrounded by flatterers, I suspect.

Why behave so poorly?  Well, this is how stars behave - they are rampant egotists of the very worst order.  That's why they do the political stuff, for if they bared their true souls, people would run a mile!

The slightly nauseating sense of disorientation that marks almost all the subsequent takes must surely come from the fact that this seemed to touch on things that people think are really politically important - the status of black men, violence among them and men more widely, BLM-style allyship, women's honour and whether that exists - and yet, weirdly, as an incident, it seems to have almost nothing to say about any of it; oddly illustrating the yawning chasm between the world of an unconvincingly politicised media/thespian elite and the issues that they pretend to care about.

Some of the more out-there white supremacy takes make a point of the ceremony being run by an all-black production crew for the first time ever and for this to take place. Apparently, that's evidence of white supremacy somehow.  It seems a pretty foolish thing to have given it to an all-black crew anyway as any cock-ups, such as happened with Moonlight/La La Land a few years ago, would then become a "black" failure, as some will probably seek to paint this.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 29, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> I'm on Team Smith on this one, Chris Rock comes across as a smug unpleasant and self-entitled cunt at the best of times, Yes Will Smith shouldn't have smacked someone in the gob in public but it's hard to be too critical of him.
> As for prosecution why? there are are worse brawls outside pubs on a Saturday night that just end up with a police caution. A public apology is enough.


I don't know if I'm on Team Smith, though I'm emphatically not on Team Rock or Team Oscars.  Making fun of someone's alopecia on the biggest of stages is fucking horrible. I've no problem with Rock getting a slap and even more with the self congratulatory tripe of the oscars getting disrupted.  Also, in passing the stuff mentioned upthread about him going with the joke is wrong. I suspect it was a bit of editing that showed him with a smile on his face or at least that timelag that anyone has when something offensive is said.  It just takes a moment to register that something taboo breading has been done/said.  The one bit that is problematic was Smith reverting to 'I decide how to respond to my wife's offence'.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I still don't know why he's not behind bars though. If I did that to someone I certainly would be.


Kind of reminds me when Jarvis Cocker 'intervened' in Michael Jackson's Brit Awards performance (against the hypocrisy of him appearing with a stage full of children).  He was taken away by the police and held for a while.  There were no obvious charges but they held on to him for 'offences against Michael Jackson'.


----------



## JimW (Mar 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Also, in passing the stuff mentioned upthread about him going with the joke is wrong. I suspect it was a bit of editing that showed him with a smile on his face or at least that timelag that anyone has when something offensive is said. It just takes a moment to register that something taboo breading has been done/said.


Yes, with killerb's salient point about why the fuck are we still talking about this in mind, I thought the same too, even if he did hear it would take a minute to register and take you out of gurning for cameras at awards bash mode.


----------



## girasol (Mar 29, 2022)

I didn't know Jada had alopecia and I thought she just had her hair like that because it looked great - she doesn't look "weird" at all.  I also noticed her daughter also shaved her hair.

BUT let's say shaved hair didn't suit her perfectly formed face, let's say she didn't have a symmetric face - here's what I'm uncomfortable with, as a woman...

a) why should women feel bad because they have shaved hair?  Why do we feel so attacked when people make comment on our appearance?  That is problematic.  We should feel valued for a lot more than that.

b) people make jokes about men's appearance all the time - being ugly and mean looking is almost a badge of honour, a lot of men embrace that.  It's also a very patriarchal mindset that calling a woman ugly is such a terrible insult.  If someone calls me ugly it literally means nothing to me, granted it took 40 years to get that inbuilt notion out of my head, because as women we are brought up to think it's really important, how we look.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 29, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> i think we can all still giggle about turning down the matrix for wild wild west



Wild Wild West could have been a great franchise if handled correctly.  It wasn't.


----------



## Aladdin (Mar 29, 2022)

Chris Rock was definitely being a major prick...considering he did a documentary called Good Hair which mentioned how some Black women have a predisposition to problems with alopecia. 

Major dickhead  and back of my mind...I do think he deserved a slap. Maybe not a big heavy one from Will but yeah...I'd have given him one in my head. Not in reality mind.

Will should not lose an Oscar for it.
He will probably donate to some cause...and I don't believe he is intrinsically a "violent" man...he just got pissed off at Rock. And probably pissed off at himself for his initial laughing...and realised "shit my wife will not be happy that I laughed".
He may even have thought ..."so how do I remedy this? Better be in trouble with Chris Rock than my missus."

So the slap was quite exhaggerated..it wasn't a fist..didnt knock Chris who is quite slight..

All school yard behaviour. Not his best moment..not excusing it... but I'm not going to condemn Will Smith for a slap.


----------



## Numbers (Mar 29, 2022)

girasol said:


> I didn't know Jada had alopecia and I thought she just had her hair like that because it looked great - she doesn't look "weird" at all.  I also noticed her daughter also shaved her hair.
> 
> BUT let's say shaved hair didn't suit her perfectly formed face, let's say she didn't have a symmetric face - here's what I'm uncomfortable with, as a woman...
> 
> ...


The 'weird' reference was/is strange alright.


----------



## belboid (Mar 29, 2022)

catsbum said:


> What was the other? The idea of god?


My name is legion, for we are many.  

I never said they were funny


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 29, 2022)

belboid said:


> The bit in the bible about Jesus turning the other cheek was (according to proper church going Christian’s I used to work with) an attempt to make his oppo look soft by forcing him to slap JC ‘like a girl’ (ie with the palm of his hand). It was one of two examples they gave of jokes in the bible.



Jesus Christ.


----------



## killer b (Mar 29, 2022)

Diamond said:


> It seems a pretty foolish thing to have given it to an all-black crew anyway as any cock-ups, such as happened with Moonlight/La La Land a few years ago, would then become a "black" failure


only according to racists though.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Mar 29, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Wild Wild West could have been a great franchise if handled correctly.  It wasn't.


The original tv series was excellent....


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 29, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Wild Wild West could have been a great franchise if handled correctly.  It wasn't.



hmm never seen the TV show its based on so might of had some legs if they had no made it so silly


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2022)

full uncensored vid


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 29, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm never seen the TV show its based on so might of had some legs if they had no made it so silly



The original tv show was pretty campy.  It was a lot like 1960s Batman, campy but fun.  It pretty much invented Steampunk.


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## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2022)

from teh vid

it really does not sound like a slap. it doesn't look like a slap. he's leaning forward weirdly. the hand doesn't seem to even make contact. 

oh shit have i gone full Doing My Own Research


----------



## MickiQ (Mar 29, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Chris Rock was definitely being a major prick...considering he did a documentary called Good Hair which mentioned how some Black women have a predisposition to problems with alopecia.
> 
> Major dickhead  and back of my mind...I do think he deserved a slap. Maybe not a big heavy one from Will but yeah...I'd have given him one in my head. Not in reality mind.
> 
> ...


I suspect than Will Smith got a major earful off his wife when they got home both about laughing at the joke and sticking one on Chris Rock as a result of it. He was on a loser either way.


----------



## Maltin (Mar 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Also, in passing the stuff mentioned upthread about him going with the joke is wrong. I suspect it was a bit of editing that showed him with a smile on his face or at least that timelag that anyone has when something offensive is said.  It just takes a moment to register that something taboo breading has been done/said.  The one bit that is problematic was Smith reverting to 'I decide how to respond to my wife's offence'.


Jada’s reaction in the same shot is completely different so doesn’t seem to be from a different moment in time.


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## Wilf (Mar 29, 2022)

Maltin said:


> Jada’s reaction in the same shot is completely different so doesn’t seem to be from a different moment in time.


Fair enough, though I do think the comments that he was okay with the 'joke' till he saw she wasn't are off.  More a case of taking time to process what was being said.


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## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

BigMoaner said:


> from teh vid
> 
> it really does not sound like a slap. it doesn't look like a slap. he's leaning forward weirdly. the hand doesn't seem to even make contact.
> 
> oh shit have i gone full Doing My Own Research



Yeah, that’s what a glancing tap on a lapel mike sounds like.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 29, 2022)

Epona said:


> Liked except for the last line - I mean I don't like them but not worth physical violence.


Isn't there some room for negotiation here, I mean, it's Jimmy Carr we are talking about.


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## emanymton (Mar 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Fair enough, though I do think the comments that he was okay with the 'joke' till he saw she wasn't are off.  More a case of taking time to process what was being said.


I imagine when they edit these things the reaction shot is a behind by a few seconds, otherwise you don't get to see the reaction.


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## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I imagine when they edit these things the reaction shot is a behind by a few seconds, otherwise you don't get to see the reaction.



I think the crew knows what’s coming and have the cameras lined up ready.


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## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Fair enough, though I do think the comments that he was okay with the 'joke' till he saw she wasn't are off.  More a case of taking time to process what was being said.



I guess it’s possible if he was thinking about other stuff, and it makes sense that he would have had plenty on his mind, but I don’t buy it.


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## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

catsbum said:


> I improvised a session to run for each of my twelve classes this week, prompted by this incident. Only one session on Mondays which was interesting. A significant number of the (all male) students in the class said Smith was justified, but I prompted some discussion about male ego, toxic masculinity, women's voices being silenced, women being judged on looks not actions, etc etc. And then linked it all to the One Punch Can Kill campaign from a few years ago but which is as relevant a concept as ever. Was hard to hear some young men don't know another way to react than with violence or aggression.



What is it you teach, out of interest?


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## [62] (Mar 29, 2022)

It didn't really happen. I reckon they're all actors.


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## D'wards (Mar 29, 2022)

In the Golden Globes last year Ricky Gervais said whilst hosting "Oh look its Baby Yoda. Oh sorry, no its Joe Pesci"

Camera cuts to Pesci looking old and shrunken and wizened.

Is this in the same wheelhouse as the G.I. Jane joke?


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## tonysingh (Mar 29, 2022)

D'wards said:


> In the Golden Globes last year Ricky Gervais said whilst hosting "Oh look its Baby Yoda. Oh sorry, no its Joe Pesci"
> 
> Camera cuts to Pesci looking old and shrunken and wizened.
> 
> Is this in the same wheelhouse as the G.I. Jane joke?



Ricky Gervais is a prick.


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## spanglechick (Mar 29, 2022)

D'wards said:


> In the Golden Globes last year Ricky Gervais said whilst hosting "Oh look its Baby Yoda. Oh sorry, no its Joe Pesci"
> 
> Camera cuts to Pesci looking old and shrunken and wizened.
> 
> Is this in the same wheelhouse as the G.I. Jane joke?


No.  Ageing happens to everyone.  It’s not kind, but it’s not disgusting.


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## Petcha (Mar 29, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Ricky Gervais is a prick.



He'd be the first to agree with you. But his golden globe roastings were pretty fucking funny. Far far worse than Chris Rock but everyone seemed to take it in the right spirit. Not get up there and assault him though im sure many of them wanted to.


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## surreybrowncap (Mar 29, 2022)

8ball said:


> What is it you teach, out of interest?


Class for under 5's...

_Sing, Act and Dance in our musical theatre class.  We teach them songs from some well known musicals and films.  Become the characters with some fancy dress and role play._


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## belboid (Mar 29, 2022)

The Golden Globes always made a feature of having a roasting host.  As the biggest load of self-congratulatory wank it had to balance that with some acidity. 

The Oscars have gone a bit that way, but it’s never really meant to be plain mean (to anyone there, at least). 

Given JPS has said that she (having little choice) was going to embrace her hair loss, the joke could have been a mild crack, even a comradely one - _if_ it had been made by Regina King or Wanda Sykes.  But it was made by someone who has had a _thing_ with her and her husband for years so it was bound to be taken (and was probably meant) as mean and wanky.


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## D'wards (Mar 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> He'd be the first to agree with you. But his golden globe roastings were pretty fucking funny. Far far worse than Chris Rock but everyone seemed to take it in the right spirit. Not get up there and assault him though im sure many of them wanted to.


The best one was "Once upon a time in Hollywood was great but long, oh so long. Leonardo di Caprio went to the premiere and by the time it finished his date was too old for him."
Cuts to Leonardo smirking 

Mucking hilarious


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## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

spanglechick said:


> No.  Ageing happens to everyone.  It’s not kind, but it’s not disgusting.



Agree, def different ballpark, though not sure about your third sentence in terms of our current cultural attitudes.  Also not sure what you’re saying _is_ disgusting here.

Possibly you refer to something going on re: American attitudes towards black womens’ hair - that seems to be an intensifier that I’m not familiar with.


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## 8ball (Mar 29, 2022)

surreybrowncap said:


> Class for under 5's...
> 
> _Sing, Act and Dance in our musical theatre class.  We teach them songs from some well known musicals and films.  Become the characters with some fancy dress and role play._



When one punch from a 5 year old can kill, we’ll be in trouble.


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## not henry (Mar 30, 2022)

Where was security, stage manager, asm, etc., etc., These events are micro managed/ choreographed to minutes and seconds. How come he could walk onto a stage unchallenged and do what he did and no one intervened in any way. After the mega protests that have happened at high profile events such as this I think we should be thankful that it was only a slap.
Chris Rock missed a beat when being told to "keep my wifes name out of your fucking mouth" He could have responded by telling him to keep his hair on, or he could have indicated that if he had a mouthful of anything from his wife, her name would not feature highly .
Go will sniff "Keep MY wifes name out of it" because of her hair loss she is unable to speak for herself.


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## tonysingh (Mar 30, 2022)

Personally, I haven't seen chaos like this at the Oscars since Naked Gun 33 and a  3rd. 

Fucking love that film.


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## IC3D (Mar 30, 2022)

Kind of gutted Will Smith is a dick I've been a fan I suppose since FP. Now I know that there's some Scientology bs his wife cheated on him with their sons freind and they are in a cough open relatationship. Maybe he wanted to cut Chris off before the roasting got more personal. He seems broken.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 30, 2022)

IC3D said:


> Kind of gutted Will Smith is a dick I've been a fan I suppose since FP. Now I know that there's some Scientology bs his wife cheated on him with their sons freind and they are in a cough open relatationship. Maybe he wanted to cut Chris off before the roasting got more personal. He seems broken.



In "open relationships" there always seems to be one partner who is less happy with that arrangement than the other.


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## Wilf (Mar 30, 2022)

not henry said:


> Where was security, stage manager, asm, etc., etc., These events are micro managed/ choreographed to minutes and seconds. How come he could walk onto a stage unchallenged and do what he did and no one intervened in any way. After the mega protests that have happened at high profile events such as this I think we should be thankful that it was only a slap.
> Chris Rock missed a beat when being told to "keep my wifes name out of your fucking mouth" *He could have responded by telling him to keep his hair on, or he could have indicated that if he had a mouthful of anything from his wife, her name would not feature highly* .
> Go will sniff "Keep MY wifes name out of it" because of her hair loss she is unable to speak for herself.


Really?


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## Reno (Mar 30, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> In "open relationships" there always seems to be one partner who is less happy with that arrangement than the other.


Knowing a lot of couples who are in open relationships, that's not necessarily true. Even if one partner is less into it, it is something which has to be mutually agreed on and is far preferable to deceit. I'm not a fan of being judgemental of how other couples negotiate their sex life, in the end it's nobodies business but theirs.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 30, 2022)

Reno said:


> Knowing a lot of couples who are in open relationships, that's not necessarily true. Even if one partner is less into it, it is something has to be negotiated and is far preferable to deceit. I'm not a fan of being judgemental of how other couples negotiate their sex life, in the end it's nobodies business but theirs.



It is entirely their business, but Will Smith hasn't looked like a happy person for a long time.


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## Reno (Mar 30, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> It is entirely their business, but Will Smith hasn't looked like a happy person for a long time.


Sorry, I didn't realise you were actually hanging out with Will Smith.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 30, 2022)

Reno said:


> Sorry, I didn't realise you were actually hanging out Will Smith.



It's difficult to miss his hangdog expression if you read a newspaper.  And I do try to miss the celebrity pages if I possibly can.


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## Reno (Mar 30, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> It's difficult to miss his hangdog expression if you read a newspaper.  *And I do try to miss the celebrity pages if I possibly can.*


I don't believe that for a second !


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## 8ball (Mar 30, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Really?



Well, it's not in the standard de-escalation manual..


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## Part 2 (Mar 30, 2022)

Story not ready to die yet...









						Will Smith was asked to leave Oscars after slap but refused, Academy says
					

Board of governors says it has initiated disciplinary proceedings against actor after he hit Chris Rock




					www.theguardian.com


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## Yossarian (Mar 31, 2022)

But they didn't send security in to haul him out of the front row kicking and shouting, which is weird because I thought they wanted the show to get better ratings this year.


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## Epona (Mar 31, 2022)

Oh for the love of motherfucking god (and these two things are not the same)...









						I know how Will Smith felt about his wife being criticised, says Rishi Sunak
					

The chancellor speaks out over criticism of his wife, who owns shares in a firm operating in Russia.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




I cannot find a facepalm big enough.


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## Numbers (Mar 31, 2022)

How fast can you slap Chris Rock?
					

The fastest slaps require the strongest Wills. Unleash your inner Slap Smith and see how fast you can slap Chris Rock.




					www.slapchris.com
				




I've managed 60km/h


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## Epona (Mar 31, 2022)

Deleted because posting it was timed badly and I didn't want Numbers to think it was directed at his post - I'll add my comment to my own post above where it should have been in the first place


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## Ax^ (Mar 31, 2022)

Epona said:


> Oh for the love of motherfucking god (and these two things are not the same)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



can request that they  send will smith over to slap sunak


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## Ax^ (Mar 31, 2022)

now you got to ponder if will smith will borrow a Kia off a Walmart employer to get of photo ops of him apologising to Chris rock


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## Yossarian (Apr 2, 2022)

Now that the slapdust has settled, it looks like Chris Rock handled it very well by staying silent and not trying to retaliate in any way - shows in his comedy tour are selling out while Will Smith has resigned from the Academy is disgrace and there's talk that he might be finished, at least for now, as an A-list star.









						“Heartbroken” Will Smith Resigns From Academy Ahead Of Decision On His Future After Oscar Slap Of Chris Rock
					

UPDATED with AMPAS statement: Two days after the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences’ Board of Governors initiated self-described “disciplinary proceedings” against Will Smith over hi…




					deadline.com


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2022)

Smith has apologised to all and sundry, resigned from the Oscars, Rock hasn't apologised for his bad taste joke to anyone let alone JPS. Did he get a free pass to say whatever about whoever?


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## Ax^ (Apr 2, 2022)

oh smith career is not over

he now a bad boy just like his movie series is title

expect him to appear now as an action hero in the Densel/Nelson set up

might not work for disney again thats about it


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## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 2, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> Now that the slapdust has settled, it looks like Chris Rock handled it very well by staying silent and not trying to retaliate in any way - shows in his comedy tour are selling out while Will Smith has resigned from the Academy is disgrace and there's talk that he might be finished, at least for now, as an A-list star.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hollywood doesn't have a moral bottom.  How long did they know that Bill Cosby and Weinstein were predators?  They still had careers long after it was publicly known.  As long as there's money to be made on projects with an actor's name attached, they'll have a career.


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## tonysingh (Apr 2, 2022)

I think an enterprising Hollywood producer should take a punt on a Smith/Rock buddy cop type film.


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## T & P (Apr 2, 2022)

Anyone can snap and carry out an unacceptable action at least once in their lives, as undoubtedly most of us will have done. What Will Smith did was unacceptable,  but as a one-off incident, and one which he subsequently acknowledged was wrong and offered a full apology for, as well as voluntarily resigning from the voting committee, the eventual punishment he gets handed out should not be unduly harsh. He should certainly not have his Oscar award rescinded imo.


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## Yossarian (Apr 2, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Hollywood doesn't have a moral bottom.  How long did they know that Bill Cosby and Weinstein were predators?  They still had careers long after it was publicly known.  As long as there's money to be made on projects with an actor's name attached, they'll have a career.



Yeah, I noticed that the Academy saved its strongest words of condemnation for until after about 95% of the world's population had weighed in on the issue.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 3, 2022)

T & P said:


> Anyone can snap and carry out an unacceptable action at least once in their lives, as undoubtedly most of us will have done. What Will Smith did was unacceptable,  but as a one-off incident, and one which he subsequently acknowledged was wrong and offered a full apology for, as well as voluntarily resigning from the voting committee, the eventual punishment he gets handed out should not be unduly harsh. He should certainly not have his Oscar award rescinded imo.



Their racial track record is no better than their sexual harassment record.  They aren't going to make themselves look worse by taking away the award from only the 5th African American man to win in a Lead Role.  I think Polanski and Weinstein both still have their Oscars.


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## editor (Apr 3, 2022)

Looks like he can dish it out but can't take it


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2022)

editor said:


> Looks like he can dish it out but can't take it



How old is that clip? A _very_ quick Google suggests around 1991, so 30 years ago, when Smith was around 23.

I'm not about to claim I know the man's inner thoughts and beliefs, but he may well have changed his views in the intervening three decades, particularly given someone he cares about now has alopecia.

Who knows, maybe 2022 Will Smith would slap 1991 Will Smith too.


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## bluescreen (Apr 7, 2022)

Just came across this, which is a long read on FB and instructive. It covers the politics of black women's hair, upbringing in a culture of violence, Spiral Dynamics, punching up/down, minstrel show, fragile masculinity, even male circumcision. No, seriously, it's worth reading.


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## Indeliblelink (Apr 8, 2022)

Will Smith banned from Oscars for 10 years over slap
					

The Academy voted on Friday to sanction Smith after he slapped Chris Rock at the awards show.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## poului (Apr 9, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> Will Smith banned from Oscars for 10 years over slap
> 
> 
> The Academy voted on Friday to sanction Smith after he slapped Chris Rock at the awards show.
> ...



Dickheads like Ricky Gervais and Bill Maher still pontificating about how this is a watershed moment for comedians who need to be defended from cancel culture when the only person I see being cancelled is Will Smith and Chris Rock keeps selling more tickets. Gervais has since gone on to mock Smith even more specifically for his cancellation and while he's at it, trivialise the condition of alopecia with a straight face. Reprehensible hypocrisy.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 10, 2022)

poului said:


> Dickheads like Ricky Gervais and Bill Maher still pontificating about how this is a watershed moment for comedians who need to be defended from cancel culture when the only person I see being cancelled is Will Smith and Chris Rock keeps selling more tickets. Gervais has since gone on to mock Smith even more specifically for his cancellation and while he's at it, trivialise the condition of alopecia with a straight face. Reprehensible hypocrisy.


Don’t you see that there is a difference between being cancelled for a violent physical assault vrs being cancelled for merely saying stuff out loud?
It’s not hypocrisy as it’s two different things. 

Are you saying that violence shouldn’t have consequences? Expressing yourself with punches and kicks is freedom of expression?


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## poului (Apr 10, 2022)

Gromit said:


> Don’t you see that there is a difference between being cancelled for a violent physical assault vrs being cancelled for merely saying stuff out loud?
> It’s not hypocrisy as it’s two different things.
> 
> Are you saying that violence shouldn’t have consequences? Expressing yourself with punches and kicks is freedom of expression?



"Violent physical assault", "punching and kicking". That's what happened, did it? I'd be curious to know what you think would be appropriate response to witnessing a parent slapping their child round the back of their head in public.


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## Gromit (Apr 10, 2022)

poului said:


> "Violent physical assault", "punching and kicking". That's what happened, did it? I'd be curious to know what you think would be appropriate response to witnessing a parent slapping their child round the back of their head in public.


A ten year ban from the Oscars for starters.


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2022)

poului said:


> "Violent physical assault", "punching and kicking". That's what happened, did it? I'd be curious to know what you think would be appropriate response to witnessing a parent slapping their child round the back of their head in public.


What do you think the appropriate response for _assaulting a child_ is?


----------



## Yossarian (Apr 10, 2022)

poului said:


> I'd be curious to know what you think would be appropriate response to witnessing a parent slapping their child round the back of their head in public.



Public reproach at the very minimum. And a ban from awards ceremonies.


----------



## RedRedRose (Apr 10, 2022)

poului said:


> "Violent physical assault", "punching and kicking". That's what happened, did it?


It was a poor joke about someone's disability, but we simply can't empower people to assault others every time they take offence to something.

Chris Rock is significantly smaller, shorter and in his late 50's. If he had chosen to square-off, it could have easily changed the outcome to something far more serious.

Piss poor joke aside, the more I consider the incident, the better Chris Rock comes off. Meanwhile, the comedic floodgates have opened for Will Smith and his wife.


----------



## Petcha (Apr 10, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> It was a poor joke about someone's disability, but we simply can't empower people to assault others every time they take offence to something.
> 
> Chris Rock is significantly smaller, shorter and in his late 50's. If he had chosen to square-off, it could have easily changed the outcome to something far more serious.
> 
> Piss poor joke aside, the more I consider the incident, the better Chris Rock comes off. Meanwhile, the comedic floodgates have opened for Will Smith and his wife.



It was a shitty joke but as posted above, Will Smith made almost exactly the same joke on Aresenio Hall in the past. And he was also done for GBH in in the 80s so he's got a bit of form. I cannot believe anyone could defend what he did - and I also cant believe Rock didn't hit the floor, it wasn't exactly a gentle slap. If he had I'm sure the cops would have got involved.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 10, 2022)

poului said:


> Dickheads like Ricky Gervais and Bill Maher still pontificating about how this is a watershed moment for comedians who need to be defended from cancel culture when the only person I see being cancelled is Will Smith and Chris Rock keeps selling more tickets. Gervais has since gone on to mock Smith even more specifically for his cancellation and while he's at it, trivialise the condition of alopecia with a straight face. Reprehensible hypocrisy.


Oh I forgot to ask. Which movies or work projects has he been cancelled from by the way?

He’s been told they won’t invite him to the pats on the back fest that is the Oscars for ten years but that’s not cancelling his work. I’m not aware of any blacklists or boycotting his movies.


----------



## poului (Apr 10, 2022)

Gromit said:


> Oh I forgot to ask. Which movies or work projects has he been cancelled from by the way?
> 
> He’s been told they won’t invite him to the pats on the back fest that is the Oscars for ten years but that’s not cancelling his work. I’m not aware of any blacklists or boycotting his movies.



Almost all his projects have been halted, I believe.









						Will Smith begins to pay a price for slapping Chris Rock
					

After slapping Chris Rock, the future of Will Smith’s projects are uncertain.




					en.as.com
				




My point is that the response by several comedians has revealed a lot about how they think. After years of lecturing their viewers to appreciate the nuance behind their edgy and insulting jokes for the cause of defending the right to freedom of expression, I would have hoped this incident a golden opportunity to be magnanimous. To recognise that Will Smith was wrong to react so disproportionately, but then to accept his apology at face value and move on. But what did we get instead? Chris Rock stays silent, cashes in on all the furore coming his adversary's way and then leaves his brother to keep ripping on him in public and rubbish his apology. Then bystanders like Maher and Gervais come along and gleefully delight in him receiving a punishment afforded only previously to a child rapist and serial predator, and then to top it off, continue to viciously insult not just Will and Jada Pinkett Smith, but all alopecia sufferers as if by doing so, they were fighting for some noble cause. It strikes me as vile.


----------



## RedRedRose (Apr 11, 2022)

poului said:


> To recognise that Will Smith was wrong to react so disproportionately, but then to accept his apology at face value and move on.


I suspect the hostility would be minimised if Smith had been removed/left directly after the incident, or had apologised in his acceptance speech. Neither of those things happened.


----------

