# My old workplace say i OWE them money! :x



## Ryan (Oct 19, 2007)

"I write further to you leaving the company on the 2nd of october 2007

Final calculation of your salary has shown that you have been overpaid as you had overtaken your holiday, had time away from work for the medical for your new employer and had taken two sick days in september 2007, after your salary for the month had been paid to you, so no deduction could be made.

the overpayment of your salary was 278.20, howvere after recalculation of TAx and NI, your net overpayment was £186.44. You are therfore requested to send a cheque to the company reimbursing this money.

please forward cheque with the next 7 days for £186.44"

Can they actually do this?  I'm fuming at the minute! PLus they say i took sick days, but they do not pay me for sick days until the 4th day and thereafter!

ARGHHH!! can anyone give me some advice?

Ry


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## Belushi (Oct 19, 2007)

Ithink the holiday thing they can do, not sure about the sick days.


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## axon (Oct 19, 2007)

I'd bin the letter,  If they really can be arsed they'll ask again.  I don't think they can demand that you pay in 7 days.  In fact rereading your post they are "requesting" not demanding.  I think they are trying it on.


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## baldrick (Oct 19, 2007)

yeah, you'll definitely have to pay back the holiday.

can you phone payroll and ask about the sick days?


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## Ryan (Oct 19, 2007)

This coming from a company that has a bad reputation with it's staff over money. I left the company 2 days earlier than my notice period as i despised working there and it made me stupidly depressed.

Even when my Dad died last year, I had to go back to work a week after we buried him due to being in financial difficulties and not being able to afford to be out of work as they wouldn't pay me, whilst i was still in a complete mess after what had happened. And then the days i had off they took out of my holidays after the given "5 days leave" or something.

Surely the fact they let me get overdrawn on my holidays is there mistake? And time owed due to a medical for the new employer cannot be charged!?

They make me sick!


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## subversplat (Oct 19, 2007)

Personally I'd ignore the letter and the next one that follows it. When they start to get serious offer them a fiver a month or move house.


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## Ryan (Oct 19, 2007)

The painful thing is, my mother signed for the letter this morning!


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## marshall (Oct 19, 2007)

Agree with subversplat.

Yes, they can make you pay back the hol money if they really want to, but, personally, I’d bin it and let them ask again.


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## axon (Oct 19, 2007)

S'alright.  They requested a cheque, you can politely decline their request


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## editor (Oct 19, 2007)

Ignore ever single letter they send you unless it comes from a solicitor's office.


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## cesare (Oct 19, 2007)

*quietly mentions references*


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## Ryan (Oct 19, 2007)

Thank you for all the comments so far. I think I will ignore them for now. In the meantime i'm going to the doctors to explain why exactly I had the sicks days off and why i left early in the hope of a sick note, and to citizens advice as soon as I can.

*iwillnotletthemgettome* *iwillnotletthemgettome* *iwillnotletthemgettome*


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## Boris Sprinkler (Oct 19, 2007)

tell them to get to fuck. Actually phone them and tell them. That's what i did. To a company that sacked me and then requested I pay them back money as they had overpaid me. Amongst the things they sacked me for was for not asking to go the toilet and reading a paper at my desk.
They never chased it and they were a large financial organisation. I was 18 and they wanted to indimidate me. Funnily enough they went bust after sacking me. Are the two related. Almost definitely.

Speak to citizens advice. If you do have to pay it suggest you do it in coins. And maybe a tenner with fuck off you cunts written on it.


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## winterinmoscow (Oct 19, 2007)

Ryan said:
			
		

> Thank you for all the comments so far. I think I will ignore them for now. In the meantime i'm going to the doctors to explain why exactly I had the sicks days off and why i left early in the hope of a sick note, and to citizens advice as soon as I can.
> 
> *iwillnotletthemgettome* *iwillnotletthemgettome* *iwillnotletthemgettome*



sounds like a plan. let us know how it goes


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## jbob (Oct 19, 2007)

I've been sent one of these before. I ignored it, nothing came of it.


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## Looby (Oct 20, 2007)

I had to pay back for sick days I had at one company for the same reason as the o/p. I left before they could make the deductions. When I refused they threatened legal action and told me they would give me a shitty reference.

When I left my last job 3 years ago my manager clearly couldn't use the HR system because I was massively overpaid and my reference was wrong.
Everytime you had a sick or annual leave day your manager was responsible for putting the info on a HR system and this is how payroll calculated your wages. 
I'd had loads of time off sick but when my new employer got my reference it only said 2 days which another manager had done while mine was on holiday. Result. 

I had also just got married and because of the honeymoon and preparations had used more holiday than I was entitled for the 6 months I was there so I knew I would be getting a bill for 3 days holiday.

When I got my wages I'd been paid £750 extra which was nearly a months wages and was clearly my holiday entitlement because according to them I'd never taken any.


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## Geri (Oct 20, 2007)

cesare said:
			
		

> *quietly mentions references*



Ryan, please note the above!

If they overpay you, you are legally obliged to pay it back - my friend got paid an extra month's wages by mistake and her former employers took her to court and won.

Having said that I don't know if they would bother for such a small amount, however, if your new job is dependent on getting a good reference you might not want to fuck if up for the sake of less than £200.


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## AnnaKarpik (Oct 20, 2007)

Geri said:
			
		

> Ryan, please note the above!
> 
> If they overpay you, you are legally obliged to pay it back - my friend got paid an extra month's wages by mistake and her former employers took her to court and won.
> 
> Having said that I don't know if they would bother for such a small amount, however, if your new job is dependent on getting a good reference you might not want to fuck if up for the sake of less than £200.



But what can they honestly say in a reference? 'We are in dispute with this person over a mistake of ours'. Hardly relevant, is it. I don't think Ryan is expecting a glowing reference from this shower of wankers anyway.


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## Pingu (Oct 20, 2007)

AnnaKarpik said:
			
		

> But what can they honestly say in a reference? 'We are in dispute with this person over a mistake of ours'. Hardly relevant, is it. I don't think Ryan is expecting a glowing reference from this shower of wankers anyway.


 

They can simply refuse to give a reference. Which to some prospective emnployers is as good as saying "he was a mentalist fuckup who robbed us blind and stole all the office supplies whilst nobbing the CEOs daughter over the boardroom table"

for 200 quid its not worth it.. but wait for the second letter


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## London_Calling (Oct 20, 2007)

Ryan said:
			
		

> This coming from a company that has a bad reputation with it's staff over money. I left the company 2 days earlier than my notice period as i despised working there and it made me stupidly depressed.
> 
> Even when my Dad died last year, I had to go back to work a week after we buried him due to being in financial difficulties and not being able to afford to be out of work as they wouldn't pay me, whilst i was still in a complete mess after what had happened. And then the days i had off they took out of my holidays after the given "5 days leave" or something.
> 
> ...


Nothing personal but I do always enjoy the way 'we' start to build our justifications; those horrid people, they deserve it if I keep the money !

I'm always amazed how we can justify quite patently ridiculous behaviour -  obviously in this case it's only a couple of hundred quid but the justification process we go through is all there. Ahh, the joy of the moral high ground.

Got to love human nature.


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## Jambooboo (Oct 20, 2007)

Fuck em. At least till if/when 'requests' become solicitors letters.


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## Superape (Oct 20, 2007)

Also fuck em. Those solicitor's letters will cost them money


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## equationgirl (Oct 20, 2007)

I expect they'll wirte the costs off before getting a solicitor involved, given the cost of a solicitor to write the letter.

Next time, instruct your mum not to sign for stuff!


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## Ryan (Oct 20, 2007)

Yes I thought about the references, but I'm now on agency and they have already checked my references before this came about.

I'll await another letter anyway. I've calmed down a bit now too. Let's just see what happens! I'll let you guys know what happens if/when they do.


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## lights.out.london (Oct 21, 2007)

Blimey. Haven't seen this for years. Literally.

Did you work for Cunt & Co? V.small-minded but well within their rights.

1. think of references, even for agency work

2. as editor(?) said ^^ ignore the letters unless/until they go legal or threaten legal action and then ring and [nicely] try to negotiate a paymeny plan with HR/payroll.

Shabby. But there you have it. 

e2a - re mistake: employer and employee have a joint duty of care re payroll, tax and the like.


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## porno thieving gypsy (Oct 21, 2007)

I really wouldn't worry, they would hhave to bring a claim in a small court to get the cash back.

You should call thier bluff, after all, even if they do you can just choose to pay the money on the day of the case.

Easy!


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## Mr Smin (Oct 21, 2007)

if working there made you genuinely suffer (eg stress symptoms) then the extra loot is your compo - unfortunately your posting on urban might imply you would cut your stress-losses by paying it back, as one less thing to worry about.
they can deduct for time off when you did your new employment medical - it's you taking time off, not their problem what you were doing in the time.
firms take liberties the other way too - mate of mine worked out his notice instead of taking his annual leave - took a lot of further effort to get the money they owed him - fact is firms and individuals don't like writing cheques.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Oct 21, 2007)

Hopefully, it's just a standard letter that's been generated by someone crossing Ts and dotting Is after you left and if you don't respond, hopefully they won't follow it up...

I'd also just ignore it unless they send a solicitor's letter.

ETA:  

At which point, if I did receive a solicitor's letter, I'd probably write back to the effect that -- due to their error -- I've had to spend several hours reviewing my diaries and salary slips and bank statements and cross referencing my information with theirs, reading and responding to their and their solicitor's letters.  

I'd end the letter by saying that I'm enclosing an invoice in respect of the work involved in resolving this issue -- for the time involved in going through my records and dealing with their correspondence -- in the sum of GBP250 and asking them to forward a cheque in the sum of GBP 250 for all the work involved in correcting their mistake, upon receipt of which I will be more than happy to send the a cheque in the sum of £186.44.  I'd sign it off by saying payment within 7 days would be very much appreciated as I wished to conclude this outstanding matter at the earliest opportunity.


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## cesare (Oct 21, 2007)

If your employment contract doesn't have an express term dealing with deduction from wages/claw back of holiday taken but not yet entitled .... rely on the 'I spent it in good faith' fallback.

But, as I mentioned early on, balance this against the references.


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## lights.out.london (Oct 22, 2007)

AnnO'Neemus said:
			
		

> At which point, if I did receive a solicitor's letter, I'd probably write back to the effect that -- due to their error -- I've had to spend several hours reviewing my diaries and salary slips and bank statements and cross referencing my information with theirs, reading and responding to their and their solicitor's letters.
> 
> I'd end the letter by saying that I'm enclosing an invoice in respect of the work involved in resolving this issue -- for the time involved in going through my records and dealing with their correspondence -- in the sum of GBP250 and asking them to forward a cheque in the sum of GBP 250 for all the work involved in correcting their mistake, upon receipt of which I will be more than happy to send the a cheque in the sum of £186.44.  I'd sign it off by saying payment within 7 days would be very much appreciated as I wished to conclude this outstanding matter at the earliest opportunity.



An interesting idea, but not one which will fly, so to speak. Be interested to read of the employer's response!


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