# march of resistance to public sector cuts, 20th december



## frogwoman (Dec 14, 2010)

hi, ive just seen this advertised on fb but people are saying its a fake and possibly organised by fash? 

anyone have any further info one way or another?


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 14, 2010)

OCTOBER?


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 14, 2010)

shit sorry 
december i mean


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 14, 2010)

anyway, can some1 confirm this one way or another?


----------



## where to (Dec 14, 2010)

I have followed this.  Its fake.  The organiser used NCACF logo and said RMT and Unite were supporting it (anyone in their right minds should immediately realise that that's lies already).  This was confirmed as bollocks by NCACF and when the organiser was probed on it he accepted it as lies, removed references to these organisations, made up the names of new "supporting organisations" (National Peoples Initiative or some bollocks) and refused to explain why he'd lied.  He then removed all criticisms and said that people were trying to smear the event and that the page would soon be removed by Facebook on the instruction of the Police bla bla bla.  He removed some of my own posts  in fact.

The organiser was then revealed to be a "John Abraham", and I think this is correct (not 100% tho).  John Abraham's Facebook page quotes Mussolini admiringly and "likes" Geert Wilders.  He probably admires the EDL but suspicions of an EDL trap are far-fetched in my view, probably just a sad cunt.  But who knows.  Definitely a dirty lying, smearing, twisted cunt though.

Please pass this on to others if you feel you know me as a poster.  Its fake and very dodgy.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 14, 2010)

as far as i can tell it was called by a stroppy 17 year old who has a quote by gert wilders in his profile and possibly a bit of a hard on for edl, seems to have snowballed since then

maybe there is something more sinister behind it but i doubt it, but it has been fun watching clare solomon and ncafc all losing the collective plot over it


----------



## where to (Dec 14, 2010)

smokedout said:


> but it has been fun watching clare solomon and ncafc all losing the collective plot over it


 
Not really, this dirty cunt is wasting a lot of peoples time and worrying people who are quite rightly concerned of some sort of trap.  When you're mobilising schoolkids as NCACF are then you have certain responsibilities and if NCACF are getting anxious it only shows that they are decent people.

This isn't about control its about responsibilities.  The truth is that NCACF are if anything overly naive, many talking about not wanting to stop others organising themselves, despite the fact that its bloody obvious that this cunt has sinister or at least malicious intentions.

And FWIW, there are anarchists in NCACF.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 14, 2010)

yeah but, theres been no end of people on the group saying fuck who's organised it, we wanna protest anyway, the meet point is great (piccadilly circus) and the bnp/edl smears look as without foundation as the initial claim the protest was endorsed by ncafc

they may be talking about not wanting to stop others organising themselves - like they have the fucking right to do so anyway - but the statement they put out and the bleating from solomon has not reflected that

there are anarchists involved in climate camp, that dont stop them being a bunch of elitist cunts


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 14, 2010)

Looks incredibly dodgy to me. Wouldn't touch it. (For anyone reading who's not seen assorted links, they're on the main london student protests thread.)


----------



## smokedout (Dec 14, 2010)

so does that mean we condemn anyone who calls for action (and appears to have almost 2000 folk say theyre attending) who isnt part of an official group or doesnt have perfect liberal credentials

this whole facebook/twitter thing is new as an means of organising, mistakes are gonna get made,people will learn, but if a thousand militant pissed off kids land in the heart of the west end with four shopping days to go till christmas that could be far more meaningful than the police agreed marches and boring speeches ncafc have attempted to organise so far (that have been largely ignored by the participants)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 14, 2010)

You can't lie like that by "mistake", that's crap (surprised he didn't say "oh my brother posted that bit") and the rest of the details make me think it's either a wind-up or some active counter campaign or attempt to get the EDL into the protests, none of which I would touch.


----------



## where to (Dec 15, 2010)

smokedout said:


> so does that mean we condemn anyone who calls for action (and appears to have almost 2000 folk say theyre attending) who isnt part of an official group or doesnt have perfect liberal credentials


 
What are you on about???  This has got fuck all to do with ideology its about acting in a safety conscious responsible way.  Liberal credentials???

Nobody's stopping anyone attend, people just object to school kids being tricked into attending an event based on lies by dodgy fuckers./
so
 yes, we should condemn outright proven liars.  every fucking time.  That's got fuck all to do with elitism or cuntism.

You need a rethink here.


----------



## treelover (Dec 15, 2010)

what was 'safety conscious' about encouraging schoolkids to go to parliament to protest, a number who will now have criminal records, yes they have autonomy but they were encouraged by adults,


----------



## ymu (Dec 15, 2010)

I think it's worth being a little bit wary of this one, given what the EDL have said elsewhere.



> Tommy “Fuckin” Robinson aka Steven Yaxley-Lennon whipped up his barmy army in Peterborough this weekend into a hysterical frenzy over the student demonstrations, declaring “We support British Police. We are your allies” encouraging that “Every English Defence League member should shake the hand of a British Policeman”. While members are salivating over the forums with HM Armed Forces “patriots” threatening to “slap” teenagers at the next demonstration, the ever evolving nature of the EDL is reaching an interesting development as it morphs into an extra-parliamentary lobby group that can “defend” and “respond” to “British” interests. And the emphasis is definitely on Britain not just England, as the word was repeated over and over again with Union Jacks flying at the centre of stage.
> 
> http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/church-and-king-mob/
> 
> Video on the link


----------



## smokedout (Dec 15, 2010)

where to said:


> yes, we should condemn outright proven liars.  every fucking time.  That's got fuck all to do with elitism or cuntism.
> 
> You need a rethink here.



ok, maybe i didnt put it very well

ive been keeping an eye on the group - one thing thats been expressed by a lot of people has been fuck who organised it, lets do it anyway

the smears from solomon and the like that its an edl/bnp protest are just as without foundation as the original organisers claims of endorsements - which he/they have apologised for btw claiming they got carried away

now that could all be bullshit, it could even be an edl trap as solomon and assorted hangers on have claimed - lots of the kids attending know that and have said fuck lets do it anyway, the muppet who called it has become irrelevent - again a new feature of this method of organisation

im not endosring it, i havent promoted it and doubt ill attend, but ffs let people work these things out for themselves without smears of fascist or ncafc boasts that only they can organise because it takes money and liaison with the police (which is the impression they have given out in their statement responding to this)


----------



## where to (Dec 15, 2010)

They hardly need encouraging, its happening. [ to treelover ]


----------



## smokedout (Dec 15, 2010)

treelover said:


> what was 'safety conscious' about encouraging schoolkids to go to parliament to protest, a number who will now have criminal records, yes they have autonomy but they were encouraged by adults,


 
nothing, let them make their own decisions


----------



## smokedout (Dec 15, 2010)

where to said:


> They hardly need encouraging, its happening.


 
so what do you think will happen that is so bad


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 15, 2010)

the protest i went to on fri was organised by 12 year old schoolkids and it was one of the best protests i've ever been to in my life, they're obviously not going to know much about socialism or anything like that, but they know whats going on and no "adults" told them to organise it (in fact, if anything tried to scared them off...)


----------



## ymu (Dec 15, 2010)

smokedout said:


> so what do you think will happen that is so bad


 
It's being discussed on the fees protest thread. There may be an over-reaction here, but there are multiple reports of some thugs beating people up with police approval on dayx3



http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...-Thurs-9th?p=11333887&viewfull=1#post11333887

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...-Thurs-9th?p=11333909&viewfull=1#post11333909


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 15, 2010)

Obviously people are going to make their own decisions. I'm hardly making decisions for them if I say I think it's massively dodgy and I'd go nowhere near it (well, actually I'm quite curious as to what the actual point is, but wouldn't go as an actual participant).

It's hardly "smears" to point out somebody's statements of sympathy (and claims of being EDL) and that they've blatantly lied to try to get support.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 15, 2010)

whats massively dodgy about it

kids who've said we dont care if edl are there, we dont care its not organised by ncafc, we wanna go out on the streets

i think thats fucking great

(however i fully predict a damp squib, but thats okay - a lesson learnt)


----------



## where to (Dec 15, 2010)

smokedout said:


> kids who've said we dont care if edl are there, we dont care its not organised by ncafc, we wanna go out on the streets
> 
> i think thats fucking great


 
you don't have any reluctance about what could transpire with that?  that's not good.



smokedout said:


> whats massively dodgy about it


 
going round in circles a bit here.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 15, 2010)

frogwoman said:


> shit sorry
> december i mean


doh!


----------



## smokedout (Dec 15, 2010)

where to said:


> you don't have any reluctance about what could transpire with that?  that's not good.



what do you think could happen thats so bad?


----------



## ymu (Dec 15, 2010)

Did you bother clicking the links I gave you?

There is a small possibility that there is a connection. It seems unlikely that the EDL have enough numbers, let alone enough courage, to do very much - but those reports are one reason why there is some concern about this, above and beyond the fash trying to hijack events.


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 15, 2010)

I agree with smoky. Is this Nacasf or whatever trying to be a vanguard, and who the fuck is Clare Solomon and why has she elected herself leader?


----------



## ymu (Dec 15, 2010)

Solomon is an ex-swappie. She can't help herself. Not sure she's got much to do with NCAFC though - beyond being part of the broad coalition. She's Counterfire/CoR, no?


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2010)

She's the 'golly fucking gosh' student leader at SOAS, going through a radical phase.  Although she left it a bit late, she's pushing forty.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 15, 2010)

ymu said:


> Did you bother clicking the links I gave you?
> 
> There is a small possibility that there is a connection. It seems unlikely that the EDL have enough numbers, let alone enough courage, to do very much - but those reports are one reason why there is some concern about this, above and beyond the fash trying to hijack events.



what do you think could happen thats so bad?


----------



## ymu (Dec 15, 2010)

smokedout said:


> what do you think could happen thats so bad?


 
Given that the EDL have publicly stated that they will support the police against the students, and that there are at least four independent reports of suspected far right thugs beating people up last week, I would have thought that was fairly obvious. Are you being deliberately obtuse?


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 15, 2010)

There were student protestors being attacked by both reactionary sorts and antisocial mugger sorts.


----------



## GuerillaPhoto (Dec 15, 2010)

Anyone who thinks the 20th protest is some kind of fun link arms protest its not the EDL have been discussing openly on twitter about kicking heads in etc... IT IS A TRAP. 


P.S can press TV please release the full footage as I believe they are lying, I am not agreeing with any violence or anything but I believe those "youths" were never violent towards them, just disruptive and they are playing on it to get publicity for their channel.

I saw the same groups of so called "youths" jumping around the BBC cameramen etc... its just what they do.


----------



## ymu (Dec 15, 2010)

Not sure PressTV have a login here. Perhaps you should write and ask them?


----------



## TopCat (Dec 15, 2010)

I think this should be supported. At least it will tie up the police once again and cause a massive dent in their depleted overtime budget.


----------



## treelover (Dec 15, 2010)

not much interest in the welfare protests then, serial protesters even ignoring it...


----------



## ymu (Dec 15, 2010)

treelover said:


> not much interest in the welfare protests then, serial protesters even ignoring it...


 
What are you doing about it treelover? Apart from complaining about the lack of action from others and alienating them in the process?


----------



## where to (Dec 15, 2010)

treelover said:


> not much interest in the welfare protests then, serial protesters even ignoring it...


 
did you go?


----------



## treelover (Dec 15, 2010)

No, but I am not saying all should have gone, many have work, what i am saying is there is fundamentally a heirarchy of oppression of the left as is and those without a loud voice: disabled people, carers, unemployed, etc are at the bottom of it, they have agency but they also need support, they haven't had it uptill now, will that change?


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 15, 2010)

treelover said:


> No, but I am not saying all should have gone, many have work, what i am saying is there is fundamentally a heirarchy of oppression of the left as is and those without a loud voice: disabled people, carers, unemployed, etc are at the bottom of it, they have agency but they also need support, they haven't had it uptill now, will that change?



Too white and icky for most anarchotrots.


----------



## ymu (Dec 15, 2010)

treelover said:


> No, but I am not saying all should have gone, many have work, what i am saying is there is fundamentally a heirarchy of oppression of the left as is and those without a loud voice: disabled people, carers, unemployed, etc are at the bottom of it, they have agency but they also need support, they haven't had it uptill now, will that change?


 
It is harder for the disabled and benefit claimants to organise because they are in less immediate contact with each other than students or trade unionists. Disabled people will have much stronger networks than other claimants, and I would hope to see those networks being used more effectively as the effects of these cuts sink in. For benefit claimants, it will take a lot of hard work to build sufficient numbers.

If you want to build stuff, you should spend your time doing so, rather than haranguing others for not doing so. And I have no idea why you are still obsessing about the left when the rest of the anticuts movement has worked out that the way forward is to bypass them.


----------



## where to (Dec 15, 2010)

ymu is spot on, particularly about ability to mobilise.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 15, 2010)

treelover said:


> No, but I am not saying all should have gone, many have work, what i am saying is there is fundamentally a heirarchy of oppression of the left as is and those without a loud voice: disabled people, carers, unemployed, etc are at the bottom of it, they have agency but they also need support, they haven't had it uptill now, will that change?


 
http://oxfordsos.org.uk/?p=244

ahem


----------



## audiotech (Dec 20, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> I agree with smoky. Is this Nacasf or whatever trying to be a vanguard, and who the fuck is Clare Solomon and why has she elected herself leader?


 
Soloman stood in an election and received the majority of the vote.


----------



## GoneCoastal (Dec 20, 2010)

Went along to photograph today - more photographers than protestors (almost)  One van of Police there

Maybe 20 or so protesters were there & we saw no EDL we recognised ... the protesters included some students as well - didn't see any signs of right-wingers or anything like that at all ... methinks all the rumours and statements about being EDL organised put people off attending (that and the weather being cold too)

The protestors who were there didn't hang around, when it became obvious there weren't going to be many attending, they went home


----------



## GoneCoastal (Dec 20, 2010)

GuerillaPhoto said:


> Anyone who thinks the 20th protest is some kind of fun link arms protest its not the EDL have been discussing openly on twitter about kicking heads in etc... IT IS A TRAP.
> 
> 
> P.S can press TV please release the full footage as I believe they are lying, I am not agreeing with any violence or anything but I believe those "youths" were never violent towards them, just disruptive and they are playing on it to get publicity for their channel.
> ...


Um.. Hiyas there again ..... Press TV were threatened at the previous one at Trafalgar Sq - as far as I know the cameraman was assaulted there as well - albeit they may well be exaggerating this time - there's certainly some history...  

That was the demo where a cameraman (BBC we thought at the time) got a piece of metal on the head and was knocked out in front of us ... it was thrown from inside the kettle, just near to Waterstones Trafalgar Sq


----------



## Phil Aychio (Dec 21, 2010)

Seen his post on FB yet? Hes saying hes joined the Tories!


----------



## GoneCoastal (Dec 21, 2010)

..


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 21, 2010)

GoneCoastal said:


> ..


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 21, 2010)

smokedout said:


> whats massively dodgy about it
> 
> kids who've said we dont care if edl are there, we dont care its not organised by ncafc, we wanna go out on the streets
> 
> i think thats fucking great


It's great if the Youth wanna go out on the streets, sure, but not so great if their budding political consciousness turns to disillusionment as they realise they've been fucked over and used b y a bunch of dodgy far-righters. simple as that, and that's why we need to be extra-vigilant against dodgy chancers like that


----------



## GoneCoastal (Dec 21, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


>


 
Sorry - was going to post a comment then I realised it wouldn't have entirely made sense 
My mistake


----------



## londheart (Dec 31, 2010)

smokedout said:


> what do you think could happen thats so bad?


They could join the mainstream protests and be the trouble.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

Yes, they could be the ones doing the cutting, the ones attacking the poorest, the ones massively extending PFI and flogging off sections of the welfare state, deregulating the rich, attacking workplace regulation, invading and occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. Not trouble that i think we really want or need though is it?


----------



## londheart (Dec 31, 2010)

They look like UKIP/EDL/Pensioner's Party, so they probably vote Tory, when there isn't a candidate of their exact predilection, and then protest against the consequences. (Even if they don't actually vote Tory, they act to similar effect in many situations).


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

Who do? The people who did all the things that i mentioned? They look uncannily like your labour party to me.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 31, 2010)

Bloody pensioners.


----------



## londheart (Dec 31, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> Bloody pensioners.


 The 'Pensioners' Party' doesn't represent pensioners any more than UKIP represents the UK - it's the name they use.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

What party are you in? What's it called?


----------



## londheart (Dec 31, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Who do? The people who did all the things that i mentioned? They look uncannily like your labour party to me.


 Yes, but you could be David Cameron.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 31, 2010)

A bit like Labour don't represent labour either


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

londheart said:


> Yes, but you could be David Cameron.


 
You could be Nick Clegg. I win.

Pathetic. _I won't reply to the content of your posts because you might be David Cameron._


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Dec 31, 2010)

londheart said:


> Yes, but you could be David Cameron.


 
He's actually the shade of Keith Joseph.

Louis MacNeice


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 31, 2010)

I reckon Just Call Me Dave spends all day pretending to be an anarchist on Urban


----------

