# unite for europe march, saturday 25/03/2017



## isvicthere? (Mar 22, 2017)

Can't find a thread about this.

Who's going on Saturday? It's the 60th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

I'm going shopping in the west end then off to see my mum cos can't go on sun


----------



## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

But I don't want to "unite for Europe"....


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 22, 2017)

Well not if that Europe actually means the EU.

Anyway the organisers have had a bit of a falling out


> “Watered-down pap” and “going mushy” are just two of the angry online responses to a rebranding exercise unveiled just days before Theresa May is due to invoke article 50 on 29 March.
> 
> In place of its original slogan “Stop Brexit”, the latest billboard campaignpromoting Unite For Europe’s march on parliament this weekend has the rather less blunt catchline: “Make your voice heard”.





> “This isn’t about moving away from our message, this is purely about branding,” said Keiran MacDermott, who was previously the group’s treasurer but is now one of three remaining committee members in charge of Saturday’s protest.
> ...
> 
> Neither will comment on the circumstances of the committee bust-up, which follows two other recent departures.
> ...


Who wouldn't want to be there with speakers like those.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 22, 2017)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

Some friends of mine are going on this who to my knowledge have never been on a protest march before, or at least not in the last decade or two.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 22, 2017)

Have a word


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Have a word


I am going too, though to be fair I go to every march in London because I have a running photo project on them. The last Europe march I went on had some seriously odd counter-protesters - a mix of literally tweedy UKIP and old folk waving signs about "snowflakes" and "globalists". One had a Golden Dawn t-shirt.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

Might well have some route changes based on today, though I doubt it will be cancelled. I wouldn't be surprised if Parliament Square was off-limits for a bit.


----------



## gosub (Mar 22, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Well not if that Europe actually means the EU.
> 
> Anyway the organisers have had a bit of a falling out
> 
> ...



If Tim Farron speaks at a Lib Dem conference, does he  still make a sound?


----------



## Supine (Mar 22, 2017)

gosub said:


> If Tim Farron speaks at a Lib Dem conference, does he  still make a sound?



Nobody knows


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> If Tim Farron speaks at a Lib Dem conference, does he  still make a sound?


Trendy vicar type


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

isvicthere? said:


> Can't find a thread about this.
> 
> Who's going on Saturday? It's the 60th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome.



What the fuck would I want to go on that for?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)




----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

isvicthere? said:


> Can't find a thread about this.
> 
> Who's going on Saturday? It's the 60th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome.



I mentioned it in the 'remainers, when are you taking to te streets?' thread


----------



## Mr Moose (Mar 23, 2017)

March for Europe? Has something happened to Europe?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

Mr Moose said:


> March for Europe? Has something happened to Europe?


its been cut off by fog


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I am going too, though to be fair I go to every march in London because I have a running photo project on them. The last Europe march I went on had some seriously odd counter-protesters - a mix of literally tweedy UKIP and old folk waving signs about "snowflakes" and "globalists". One had a Golden Dawn t-shirt.


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


>



Is that a Twiglet you've sucked all the brown stuff off? Can't be proper bread, that's square and comes in slices.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


>


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

'hey do you think anyone wil notice the sawzzie?'

'let dimitri have a go on it, he's been to art school'

'yep that'll do it'


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


>


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

We're leaving together,
But still it's farewell
And maybe we'll come back
To earth, who can tell?
I guess there is no one to blame
We're leaving ground (leaving ground)
Will things ever be the same again?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 24, 2017)

I am being dragged along to this by the family. I will not listen to speeches by the lib dem vermin, I have put my foot down on this


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

I don't know what to say


----------



## LDC (Mar 24, 2017)




----------



## JTG (Mar 24, 2017)




----------



## ska invita (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> We're leaving together,
> But still it's farewell
> And maybe we'll come back
> To earth, who can tell?
> ...



surely


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2017)

If Farron does attend/speak, that'll be quite an impressive % of the Parliamentary party out there with the _Remainian army!_


----------



## gosub (Mar 24, 2017)

brogdale said:


> If Farron does attend/speak, that'll be quite an impressive % of the Parliamentary party out there with the _Remainian army!_



 can you put impressive and Farron in the same sentence?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2017)

gosub said:


> can you put impressive and Farron in the same sentence?


Only in an (obviously failed) attempt at ironic humour.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

gosub said:


> can you put impressive and Farron in the same sentence?


not even farron's failures are impressive


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> View attachment 102841
> 
> I don't know what to say


i do. 

tell them to fuck off, go on, sling your hook


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> tell them to fuck off, go on, sling your hook



Seems a bit much. Especially on this of all weekends. Can't I just get her some flowers instead


----------



## tim (Mar 24, 2017)

At last a demonstration for decent middle-class volk. Just like they used to have on the old-days


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> I don't know what to say


Which twat is that from? Is it 'official' or just some wanker off Facebook?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Which twat is that from? Is it 'official' or just some wanker off Facebook?



Dunno me mum posted it in fb. I'll ask


----------



## A380 (Mar 25, 2017)




----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

tim said:


> At last a demonstration for decent middle-class volk. Just like they used to have on the old-days


Looks like the proposed david bowie memorial there


----------



## Wilf (Mar 25, 2017)

Got the potential to turn _really_ nasty this. Police pelted with quinoa.


----------



## LDC (Mar 25, 2017)

Croissant bloc has smashed up a Greggs.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 25, 2017)

People running into Wetherspoons shouting 'Seeing any price rises in the ingredients for your breakfasts? Hah, we told you so! And don't think the pound's going to recover before you go on your dreadful holiday to Torremolinos'.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 25, 2017)

be a sit down in fortnum and masons, after the shopping


----------



## Wilf (Mar 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> be a sit down in fortnum and masons, after the shopping


'Hello dear, could you put my bags behind the food hampers over there. I've come to tear it the fuck up in the name of Jean-Claude Junker'


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> be a sit down in fortnum and masons, after the shopping



Some Brexiteer shoppers have blocked the entrance with their walkers, this is going to get messy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> be a sit down in fortnum and masons, after the shopping


Yeh they're all going to afternoon tea there


----------



## Wilf (Mar 25, 2017)

Yossarian said:


> Some Brexiteer shoppers have blocked the entrance with their walkers, this is going to get messy.


The _Clandestine Insurgent Rebel Carswell Army_. Vicious bastards, even with their wonky grins.


----------



## A380 (Mar 25, 2017)

There's a rolled up Guardian charge going in near me. And, given it's Saturday the colour supplements are giveung them real heft.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 25, 2017)

A380 said:


> There's a rolled up Guardian charge going in near me. And, given it's Saturday the colour supplements are giveung them real heft.


If they get up close you'll get a blast of falafel breath in your face. Nasty.


----------



## Mr Moose (Mar 25, 2017)

Police have kettled the protestors sparking an angry backlash. It wasn't even a Le Creuset.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 25, 2017)

There is a pair of EDL'ers holding a St George flag withh some kind of half baked slogan on it, lurking outside the red lion pub.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> There is a pair of EDL'ers holding a St George flag withh some kind of half baked slogan on it, lurking outside the red lion pub.


An unleavened slogan


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 25, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> There is a pair of EDL'ers holding a St George flag withh some kind of half baked slogan on it, lurking outside the red lion pub.


There always is. Better than the tamils up the road.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 25, 2017)

..


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 25, 2017)

Did the demonstration reflect the marvellous diversity of the remain vote?


----------



## mod (Mar 25, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> There is a pair of EDL'ers holding a St George flag withh some kind of half baked slogan on it, lurking outside the red lion pub.



It said 'keep extremists off our streets'.  The irony.


----------



## ska invita (Mar 25, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Did the demonstration reflect the marvellous diversity of the remain vote?


the remain vote was diverse, why the marvellous?


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 25, 2017)

So how did the march go? Were there more than a dozen attendees?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 25, 2017)

ska invita said:


> the remain vote was diverse, why the marvellous?


Because of the leading public faces of it being  marvelous.

Marvelous types. They own own Europe. You own Europe.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 25, 2017)

The all ran up to bank cashpoints and withdrew Euros and waved them about.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 25, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Did the demonstration reflect the marvellous diversity of the remain vote?



For God's sake, stay safe


----------



## Wilf (Mar 25, 2017)

mod said:


> It said 'keep extremists off our streets'.  The irony.


'WHOSE STREETS, OUR STREETS... in a customer facing, partnership with dynamic but inclusive... '


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 25, 2017)

Hocus Eye. said:


> So how did the march go? Were there more than a dozen attendees?


I'd say 40-50K; it's hard to judge when it's that size. It was one of the larger ones I've seen in London.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 25, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'd say 40-50K; it's hard to judge when it's that size. It was one of the larger ones I've seen in London.


Cheers Fridge.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 25, 2017)

mod said:


> It said 'keep extremists off our streets'.  The irony.


That'll be Pompous Dave Smeaton and the March for England lot then.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 25, 2017)

Wilf said:


> 'WHOSE STREETS, OUR STREETS... in a customer facing, partnership with dynamic but inclusive... '



Competitively tendered streets


----------



## maomao (Mar 25, 2017)

I wasn't there but traffic in the west end was fucked for hours. Seemed to be a biggish demo.


----------



## A380 (Mar 25, 2017)

Green park to parliament square with the whole route full and probably 45 minutes at green park after the front finished. Even the Met said 20 people...


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

A380 said:


> Green park to parliament square with the whole route full and probably 45 minutes at green park after the front finished. Even the Met said 20 people...


20! But what people!


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 25, 2017)

Must have been quite a few there - even the Daily Mail has it at 25,000 terror-enabling traitors.


----------



## mod (Mar 25, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'd say 40-50K; it's hard to judge when it's that size. It was one of the larger ones I've seen in London.



Over 50k I reckon but it's hard to judge.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 25, 2017)

mod said:


> Closer to 100k I reckon but it's hard to judge.


Yeah, on reflection it was more than 50K. Park Lane was completely flooded even given that people were in the park too. Not as large as the women's march but larger I think than any previous Brexit demo, and some of those were pretty big.


----------



## gosub (Mar 25, 2017)

That Mail piece says "Organisers gave estimates of 100,000 attendees at the event, but the Met Police said it was closer to 25,000. "  so 40,000-50,000 sounds on the money.


 (read it coz wanted to know who was furious.  As is, fair play for life goes on, so must we, rather than the more mawkish responses to Wednesdays murders - if crowd control cops are detecting, they are doing policing wrong). 

4 days til Art 50


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 25, 2017)

_Whose streets?!

EU grant funded in conjunction with council and private redevelopment agency streets!_


----------



## A380 (Mar 25, 2017)

I glad I went, even more now that I know it's pissed off some bile monkey at the Mail.


( and the organic petit fours at the end were delicious )


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

Sorry if we've had this already, but I've been away from t'interweb all day (not at this event)....





"_Praise the lard!"_


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

Do we finally have peak Guardian?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Do we finally have peak Guardian?
> 
> View attachment 102944


Guardian shit thread >>>


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

gosub said:


> That Mail piece says "Organisers gave estimates of 100,000 attendees at the event, but the Met Police said it was closer to 25,000. "  so 40,000-50,000 sounds on the money.
> 
> 
> (read it coz wanted to know who was furious.  As is, fair play for life goes on, so must we, rather than the more mawkish responses to Wednesdays murders - if crowd control cops are detecting, they are doing policing wrong).
> ...


If the cops said closer to 25k than 100k you're looking in the 62k region. Or you should be anyway.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Guardian shit thread >>>



As requested.


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 25, 2017)

...


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 25, 2017)




----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 25, 2017)

too many lib dem branded EU badges being given out.these dirty backstabbing fuckers are worming their way back.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 25, 2017)

FFS. What a cunt. (At the bloke in 39s pic, not you not-bono-ever)


----------



## souljacker (Mar 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Sorry if we've had this already, but I've been away from t'interweb all day (not at this event)....
> 
> View attachment 102942
> 
> ...



Cliff Richard is looking well.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 25, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> too many lib dem branded EU badges being given out.these dirty backstabbing fuckers are worming their way back.


They are the only political party with a hard anti-Brexit line, and it's had a response electorally. They've noticed this and they're using it as much as they can now.

I mean I can't stand them but there was a massive street demonstration in London today - and there were marches in other cities too - where the only mainstream political party that was addressing what they wanted was the Lib Dems. People can make all the Waitrose jokes they like but this is significant.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They are the only political party with a hard anti-Brexit line, and it's had a response electorally. They've noticed this and they're using it as much as they can now.
> 
> I mean I can't stand them but there was a massive street demonstration in London today - and there were marches in other cities too - where the only mainstream political party that was addressing what they wanted was the Lib Dems. People can make all the Waitrose jokes they like but this is significant.


Which is quite ironic, given they facilitated the tory administrations that brought us here.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 25, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They are the only political party with a hard anti-Brexit line, and it's had a response electorally. They've noticed this and they're using it as much as they can now.
> 
> I mean I can't stand them but there was a massive street demonstration in London today - and there were marches in other cities too - where the only mainstream political party that was addressing what they wanted was the Lib Dems. People can make all the Waitrose jokes they like but this is significant.


They have done well being the only anti Brexit party ,attacking their ex partners and criticising Labour for their poor record in opposition. They have picked up Council seats and obviously the Goldsmith seat.With the margin between Brexit and Remain seemingly fixed and Labour in opposition seemingly fucked they have quite a bit of mileage left in this strategy.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 25, 2017)

Twitter says the demo was hideously white and hideously middle-class. Does anyone who actually went think it wasn't?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 25, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> View attachment 102950



As well as being offensive that's nowhere near as clever as he thinks it is. Hopefully Latin will be compulsory in the new grammar schools.


----------



## A380 (Mar 25, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Twitter says the demo was hideously white and hideously middle-class. Does anyone who actually went think it wasn't?


I went and I think the number of BME people I saw was less than 20.


----------



## toblerone3 (Mar 25, 2017)

I went on the March with my cousins and girlfriend.  My favourite placard which had a charming sense of self-awareness about the middle classness of it all was "I am really quite cross"


----------



## ferrelhadley (Mar 25, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Twitter says the demo was hideously white and hideously middle-class. Does anyone who actually went think it wasn't?


Like most other big demos then. 

Ashcroft Polls suggests 
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf
32% of BAME voters who voted did so for Brexit and this drops to 27% for those identifying as "Black". (Page 10).
81% of people who identified multiculturalism as "ill" for Britain voted leave. 
74% of those who identified feminism as "ill"  for Britain voted leave. 

Attacking remain as the "white" option is a rather "bold" angle. One that will likely have little traction beyond Urban 75 and perhaps the Telegraph.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 25, 2017)

abandoned .


----------



## Wilf (Mar 25, 2017)

Must admit I'm always shocked to hear the numbers on these demos, regardless if it was 40k or more. I heard a good bit of moaning from many of the middle class people I know at the time (I work at a university) - and that goes on if you were to ask people about brexit. But I don't think I've met a single person who is any way active in terms of resisting it, or would be anywhere near going on a demo about it. 

I'm not having a go at anybody who went, by the way, just curious as to who is going and why.  Presumably the Libdems having been doing what passes for 'mobilising' but the numbers involved go beyond that.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 26, 2017)

seemed to be lots of Brits with EU partners going along from what I could see. There were a couple of other groups handing out leaflets- movement for justice were hanging about.All very nice . I was told off by a copper for telling a Bently 4x4 driver to fuck off when he kicked off about the scum who were blocking his route out of the Hilton on Park Lane, Thats was about the height of the disorder.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 26, 2017)

I can understand people voting Remain, I can understand them protesting now but it's hard not to be disgusted by people who stand side by side with Lib Dems having a go at everyone else about the potential damage of Brexit. Just highlights the fact that some of these people are completely convinced that before the Leave vote the world was a perfect, happy place where nothing bad ever happened and no one was poor, racist or being fucked over. Gah.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 26, 2017)

YouSir said:


> I can understand people voting Remain, I can understand them protesting now but it's hard not to be disgusted by people who stand side by side with Lib Dems having a go at everyone else about the potential damage of Brexit. Just highlights the fact that some of these people are completely convinced that before the Leave vote the world was a perfect, happy place where nothing bad ever happened and no one was poor, racist or being fucked over. Gah.



And now not even a whisper of how or why the EU should be reformed,apparantly for them it's a perfect little world with no consideration for the European working class.Of course if Le Pen was to get in ( unlikely but the level of support and the reason for support is going to be challenging reading) that would pull the rug from right underneath them.


----------



## toblerone3 (Mar 26, 2017)

YouSir said:


> I can understand people voting Remain, I can understand them protesting now but it's hard not to be disgusted by people who stand side by side with Lib Dems having a go at everyone else about the potential damage of Brexit. Just highlights the fact that some of these people are completely convinced that before the Leave vote the world was a perfect, happy place where nothing bad ever happened and no one was poor, racist or being fucked over. Gah.



That is unfair.  "some of these people are..." is a phrase that could be applied to those that voted for 'Leave' with the following words being "...xenophobic racist fucks". I voted remain but I was not and am still not blind to the negative side of the EU structures and the need for reform.  I think we have got a better chance of progress within the EU than out.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 26, 2017)

toblerone3 said:


> That is unfair.  "some of these people are..." is a phrase that could be applied to those that voted for 'Leave' with the following words being "...xenophobic racist fucks". I voted remain but I was not and am still not blind to the negative side of the EU structures and the need for reform.  I think we have got a better chance of progress within the EU than out.



Yes, it could and it would be unfair if I'd have said 'all' and not 'some of'.


----------



## Bun (Mar 26, 2017)

The only demo I have been on without bloody Socialist Worker sellers. Which was nice.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 26, 2017)

toblerone3 said:


> That is unfair.  "some of these people are..." is a phrase that could be applied to those that voted for 'Leave' with the following words being "...xenophobic racist fucks". I voted remain but I was not and am still not blind to the negative side of the EU structures and the need for reform.  I think we have got a better chance of progress within the EU than out.


Where's the march for this reform then?


----------



## J Ed (Mar 26, 2017)

Bun said:


> The only demo I have been on without bloody Socialist Worker sellers. Which was nice.



Wow, even the SWP are politically savvy enough to get that attending would be a bad idea.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Wow, even the SWP are politically savvy enough to get that attending would be a bad idea.


They had a massive one on the 18th - an anti-brexit demo organised largely by a party that aggressively supported brexit.


----------



## phillm (Mar 26, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Twitter says the demo was hideously white and hideously middle-class. Does anyone who actually went think it wasn't?



Just like Glastonbury then ......


----------



## mather (Mar 26, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> They had a massive one on the 18th - an anti-brexit demo organised largely by a party that aggressively supported brexit.



Lol, what a bunch of clowns!


----------



## toblerone3 (Mar 26, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Where's the march for this reform then?



I agree that the EU needed and still needs to become more democratically accountable, but the technocratic/bureaucratic nature of it makes it difficult to find issues that are binary enough, with a clear enough solution, to stimulate a protest march.  

Whether or not protest marches are a good way of doing this, surely the EU should be able to change and reform itself in response to public pressure brought about by closer cooperation between civic society in its different member states.  At the moment there is so much divide and rule between the different member states and bureaucratic complexity that the technocrats are not sufficiently open to democratic scrutiny.  But to say that technocrats can never be pressured and reformed seems to be very defeatist.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 26, 2017)

Tell me, what are the examples of EU technocrats having their views changed  by popular pressure. (Even typing that shows the problems)


----------



## gosub (Mar 26, 2017)

toblerone3 said:


> I agree that the EU needed and still needs to become more democratically accountable, but the technocratic/bureaucratic nature of it makes it difficult to find issues that are binary enough, with a clear enough solution, to stimulate a protest march.
> 
> Whether or not protest marches are a good way of doing this, surely the EU should be able to change and reform itself in response to public pressure brought about by closer cooperation between civic society in its different member states.  At the moment there is so much divide and rule between the different member states and bureaucratic complexity that the technocrats are not sufficiently open to democratic scrutiny.  But to say that technocrats can never be pressured and reformed seems to be very defeatist.



I remember hearing a lecture of the CFP discard scandal in 1996, it was still going on over 15 years later such is the ease of reform of EU.  But there is reform.  For example Juncker, first Head of the Commission to claim a democratic mandate,despite it being impossible to have voted for him or his party in this country, and of the 3 hustings debates he took part in, 1 was shown on UK tv...on UK Parliament.  Such is reform.

And the big crunch issues according to EUrobarometer, what to do about the EUro, and the immigration issues stemming from the carnage in Syria -  we aren't in the EUro, nor in Schegen why would we have influence?


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 26, 2017)

toblerone3 said:


> That is unfair.  "some of these people are..." is a phrase that could be applied to those that voted for 'Leave' with the following words being "...xenophobic racist fucks". I voted remain but I was not and am still not blind to the negative side of the EU structures and the need for reform.  I think we have got a better chance of progress within the EU than out.



I see.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 26, 2017)

Bun said:


> The only demo I have been on without bloody Socialist Worker sellers. Which was nice.


With LibDems instead, wonderful. For all the issues with the SWP it didn't introduce the bedroom tax, increase VAT and triple HE fees.


----------



## A380 (Mar 26, 2017)

Best is the enemy of the good and all that. It's not the Current EU or a pan national socialist utopia, it's the current EU or Farrage and Rees Moggs wet dream of trade with the (white) commonwealth. 

It was nice to go on a march with no SWP. There were big gaps round the Lib Dems. I missed getting a photo of a woman with an orange Lib Dem sign that looked like a negative of a magnet with some iron filings...


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 26, 2017)

A380 said:


> Best is the enemy of the good and all that. It's not the Current EU or a pan national socialist utopia, it's the current EU or Farrage and Rees Moggs wet dream of trade with the (white) commonwealth.
> 
> It was nice to go on a march with no SWP. There were big gaps round the Lib Dems. I missed getting a photo of a woman with an orange Lib Dem sign that looked like a negative of a magnet with some iron filings...


How white is the current EU compared to the ( white) commonwealth ?


----------



## A380 (Mar 26, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> How white is the current EU compared to the ( white) commonwealth ?


Not white enough for Farrage and his ikl. I don't think they see Eastern or southern Europeans as being proper whiteies.

Besides it's not the truth just their weird dreams of a 1950s that never was.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 26, 2017)

A380 said:


> Not white enough for Farrage and his ikl. I don't think they see Eastern or southern Europeans as being proper whiteies.
> 
> Besides it's not the truth just their weird dreams of a 1950s that never was.


Can't say that I recall any Farage part of the Leave campaign stressing that proper whiteness was an issue tbh. You may be thinking about Hitler ?


----------



## A380 (Mar 26, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Can't say that I recall any Farage part of the Leave campaign stressing that proper whiteness was an issue tbh. You may be thinking about Hitler ?


No the entire 'no darkies' dog whistle campaign that people are now trying to pretend never happened.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 27, 2017)

It didn't happen at all.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 27, 2017)

Amazing what people can convince themselves of though.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Mar 27, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Twitter says the demo was hideously white and hideously middle-class.



They've probably never seen an anarchist demo!


----------



## chilango (Mar 27, 2017)

A380 said:


> Besides it's not the truth just their weird dreams of a 1950s  1990s that never was.



Corrected for some of the more "enthusiastic remainers that I know.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 27, 2017)

A380 said:


> No the entire 'no darkies' dog whistle campaign that people are now trying to pretend never happened.


The trouble with your last couple of posts is that these sort of unfounded and illogical accusations make zero contribution to any debate or discussion about Brexit and post Brexit. I was in a bar last week talking to some elderly bloke from Hull , a Tory through and through who came out with similar toss about Brown and Blair ,two people who I have little time for but at least let them be judged on what they did rather than rather than something made up. I can't stand Farage but again I would want to argue on the basis of facts rather than fiction.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 27, 2017)

chilango said:


> Corrected for some of the more "enthusiastic remainers that I know.


Crime and unemployment were both lower in the 50s.


----------



## sihhi (Mar 27, 2017)

A380 said:


> No the entire 'no darkies' dog whistle campaign that people are now trying to pretend never happened.



I am interested in what aspect of the No campaign was a no darkies dog whistle campaign.

If I remember correctly both sides campaigned noticeably but not singularly on reducing immigration.
YES believed FRONTEX and the EU was the way to go, NO believed in a UK approach.


----------



## A380 (Mar 27, 2017)

Yes, Reasoned argument with no dog whistle racism in the leave campaign:


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 27, 2017)

One view of the march and its speakers 
The liberal delusion: why fighting Brexit is a bad idea


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 27, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> One view of the march and its speakers
> The liberal delusion: why fighting Brexit is a bad idea


Sneery "remoaner" rubbish by a radical folk promoter.


----------



## gosub (Mar 27, 2017)

A380 said:


> Yes, Reasoned argument with no dog whistle racism in the leave campaign:




I think we had two keyboard monkeys that blew in that were parroting the lines of the official leave campaigns - they got short shift from all sides here.  I didn't condone that campaign then, don't see why you'd think I would now.

It would be nice to actually talk about the things we actually did raise here.


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 27, 2017)

I wish we could mobilise as many people these days out onto the street to fight capitalism, or to attack Labour joining in with the Tories to sell off social housing and privatise public assets, y'know, rather than defending a neoliberal superstate.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 27, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> I wish we could mobilise as many people these days out onto the street to fight capitalism, or to attack Labour joining in with the Tories to sell off social housing and privatise public assets, y'know, rather than defending a neoliberal superstate.


You're not seriously doing whataboutery here are you?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 27, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Sneery "remoaner" rubbish by a radical folk promoter.


Never been into folk myself but that's the first time I have seen anything on the speakers. So the campaigns aim is to go for a second referendum ( third if you count the original ) after A30 which presumably would require a government sympathetic to the idea of a further referendum?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 27, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Never been into folk myself but that's the first time I have seen anything on the speakers. So the campaigns aim is to go for a second referendum ( third if you count the original ) after A30 which presumably would require a government sympathetic to the idea of a further referendum?


No?


----------



## gosub (Mar 27, 2017)




----------



## A380 (Mar 27, 2017)

gosub said:


> I think we had two keyboard monkeys that blew in that were parroting the lines of the official leave campaigns - they got short shift from all sides here.  I didn't condone that campaign then, don't see why you'd think I would now.
> 
> It would be nice to actually talk about the things we actually did raise here.


I would never think you, or any other longtime poster would condone this. It was one tactic of the leave campaign though and that must not be airbrushed away. I read the  argument from 39 steps as being that 'this sort of campaign never happened'. I was just reminding them that it did. 

There is a rational Lexit argument, and I can see some merits in it, even if I don't support it. However, both sides need to acknowledge that some people voted out because they don't like foreigners... most leave voters aren't racists. But almost all racists voted leave.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 27, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No?


Ok what is it?


----------



## gosub (Mar 27, 2017)

A380 said:


> I would never think you, or any other longtime poster would condone this. It was one tactic of the leave campaign though and that must not be airbrushed away. I read the  argument from 39 steps as being that 'this sort of campaign never happened'. I was just reminding them that it did.
> 
> There is a rational Lexit argument, and I can see some merits in it, even if I don't support it. However, both sides need to acknowledge that some people voted out because they don't like foreigners... most leave voters aren't racists. But almost all racists voted leave.



I'm not sure I count as Lexit crew, I favoured a business friendly gradual withdrawal (people need jobs.).  But I'd willing conceed those points :some people voted out because they don't like foreigners, and that while most leave voters aren't racists, almost all racists voted out. 

That,that element pretty much seized the campaign is more than unfortunate, as its leading to the most choppy form of Brexit and that's bad news. But what I'm not seeing from the remainers is an acceptance that not only were things far from a bed of roses we were well on the way to being fucked  QMV coming in all over the shop where the EUrozone could dictate.. a 'democratically elected' Head of Commission that never even bothered with the UK... limited input to EUropean crises that would hurt us all the same....the writing was on the wall.  A different campaign, and I think that would be clearer or rather I hope it would, as is even this at over 140 characters would probably garner TL;DR 's


----------



## coley (Mar 28, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They are the only political party with a hard anti-Brexit line, and it's had a response electorally. They've noticed this and they're using it as much as they can now.
> 
> I mean I can't stand them but there was a massive street demonstration in London today - and there were marches in other cities too - where the only mainstream political party that was addressing what they wanted was the Lib Dems. People can make all the Waitrose jokes they like but this is significant.


Not wanting to spoil a decent thread, but wormtounge (clegg, if you like) was giving it large on QT earlier, this is the same twat who stood four square with the tories in delivering us the austerity regime!?
If his party hadn't been wiped out and were still part of a Tory 'coalition' does any bugger doubt they would now be selling us the benefits of Brexit?
Bastards.


----------



## coley (Mar 28, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Sorry if we've had this already, but I've been away from t'interweb all day (not at this event)....
> 
> View attachment 102942
> 
> ...


Fuckin two faced twat.


----------



## coley (Mar 28, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> seemed to be lots of Brits with EU partners going along from what I could see. There were a couple of other groups handing out leaflets- movement for justice were hanging about.All very nice . I was told off by a copper for telling a Bently 4x4 driver to fuck off when he kicked off about the scum who were blocking his route out of the Hilton on Park Lane, Thats was about the height of the disorder.



No keying on his motor?
Buggerinell, must have been quite the 'passive' demonstration


----------



## coley (Mar 28, 2017)

toblerone3 said:


> I agree that the EU needed and still needs to become more democratically accountable, but the technocratic/bureaucratic nature of it makes it difficult to find issues that are binary enough, with a clear enough solution, to stimulate a protest march.
> 
> Whether or not protest marches are a good way of doing this, surely the EU should be able to change and reform itself in response to public pressure brought about by closer cooperation between civic society in its different member states.  At the moment there is so much divide and rule between the different member states and bureaucratic complexity that the technocrats are not sufficiently open to democratic scrutiny.  But to say that technocrats can never be pressured and reformed seems to be very defeatist.



Very shortly, to be 'none of our business'


----------



## coley (Mar 28, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> With LibDems instead, wonderful. For all the issues with the SWP it didn't introduce the bedroom tax, increase VAT and triple HE fees.


SWP?
Who are they?


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 28, 2017)

The lovely pro-EU Fortress Europe non dog whistle campaign.






Cameron on Turkey


> “It is not remotely on the cards that Turkey is going to join the EU any time soon. They applied in 1987. At the current rate of progress, they will probably get round to joining in about the year 3000.”


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 28, 2017)




----------



## butchersapron (Mar 28, 2017)

A380 said:


> I would never think you, or any other longtime poster would condone this. It was one tactic of the leave campaign though and that must not be airbrushed away. I read the  argument from 39 steps as being that 'this sort of campaign never happened'. I was just reminding them that it did.
> 
> There is a rational Lexit argument, and I can see some merits in it, even if I don't support it. However, both sides need to acknowledge that some people voted out because they don't like foreigners... most leave voters aren't racists. But almost all racists voted leave.


What is the intention in saying this if not to suggest that all leave voters supported a racist position? I cannot see anything else to be gained from it. You can't both say it and not say it.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 28, 2017)

Any calls for Corbyn to resign at this one?


----------



## ska invita (Mar 28, 2017)

The39thStep said:


>



someone needs to tell them not to worry and that our place in Eurovision is safe


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 28, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You're not seriously doing whataboutery here are you?



You disagree with her point?


----------



## YouSir (Mar 28, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You disagree with her point?



To be fair it is one of the most pointless points a person can make. Much beloved by the right too, find any article about a protest or campaign and amongst the top comments will be rampant whataboutary. Just a bit superfluous to be honest.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 28, 2017)

YouSir said:


> To be fair it is one of the most pointless points a person can make. Much beloved by the right too, find any article about a protest or campaign and amongst the top comments will be rampant whataboutary. Just a bit superfluous to be honest.



No it isn't. It illustrates what people can be arsed to mobilise for and it's fucking depressing.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 28, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> No it isn't. It illustrates what people can be arsed to mobilise for and it's fucking depressing.



So? What follows from that? Do you think it's a revelation to anyone on these boards that anti-capitalism protests aren't as big as they should be? Or that not enough people are involved in campaigning for social housing? It's a pointless point because it adds nothing beyond minor grumbling that's been offered a million times before.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 28, 2017)

YouSir said:


> So? What follows from that? Do you think it's a revelation to anyone on these boards that anti-capitalism protests aren't as big as they should be? Or that not enough people are involved in campaigning for social housing? It's a pointless point because it adds nothing beyond minor grumbling that's been offered a million times before.



Can't be voting leave with those dreadful Nationalists. 
There'll be some dreadful Nationalists in Central London on Saturday. Let's see how many can be arsed to show opposition to that.


----------



## A380 (Mar 28, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> What is the intention in saying this if not to suggest that all leave voters supported a racist position? I cannot see anything else to be gained from it. You can't both say it and not say it.


I normally admire your analysis if not your conclusions. So I suspect you are having fun with this post.

Some people voted  out for cost reasons. Not all, nor a majority. But to deny that now risks feeding the dragon of far right popularism.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 28, 2017)

YouSir said:


> So? What follows from that? Do you think it's a revelation to anyone on these boards that anti-capitalism protests aren't as big as they should be? Or that not enough people are involved in campaigning for social housing? It's a pointless point because it adds nothing beyond minor grumbling that's been offered a million times before.


Does it have to be a revelation? Sometime people just want to let their exasperation out. Like the other day when I ranted to my brother about union members who do FA and then complain about the union not getting a decent results. It didn't achieve anything bar getting it off my chest.

Steph can speak for herself, but I don't think that feeling depressed/annoyed/exasperated, and vocalising those feelings, that people are marching in support of a neo-liberal institution and getting mugged by the party that transferred wealth from the poor to the rich is "whataboutary". And for what it's worth I feel much the same as steph.


----------



## chilango (Mar 28, 2017)

It is disheartening to see.

It raises a few questions though:


*Are the people who went on this march the same people who coulda/shoulda/woulda mobilise against austerity?*

I have two friends who went, both Labour Party activists. One will, in conversation, defend the local Labour council's cuts. The other will oppose them. 


*Are tame A-B marches like this an appropriate response to austerity anyway?*

I'd argue that at best they're only a starting point, but at worst a distraction - and a dangerous one at that.


*Is anything being built from this? Networks? Future action? Anything?*

Well, the Lib Dems perhaps 


Just some thoughts.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 28, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> What is the intention in saying this if not to suggest that all leave voters supported a racist position? I cannot see anything else to be gained from it. You can't both say it and not say it.


He's able to say that Farage doesn't think that east and south Europeans are white enough and then post a poster of Middle Eastern refugees up to try and prove it


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 28, 2017)

ska invita said:


> someone needs to tell them not to worry and that our place in Eurovision is safe


Do you remember all that hysterical if we leave the EU we won't be allowed to do Euromillions or enter the Eurovision guff that was around lol?


----------



## gosub (Mar 28, 2017)

ska invita said:


> someone needs to tell them not to worry and that our place in Eurovision is safe



See, I'd say thats something we need to talk about.  Even when watched in a 'post modern ironic way', at the end of the day, its still watching shite. But after the genuine trauma of losing Bake off, pulling out at this stage would probably be too much for some sections of society to bear.	

However, all the column inches that are about to be written using our score and position as some sort of tea leaves about Brexit, just fuck off now.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 28, 2017)

Yes it was pretty MC. yes it was seemingly sponsored by the LibDem vermin. yes there was a bit of naivety about the nature welcoming bosom of the EU - but the best part of the day was getting the kids into the habit of going on demos - I try as best I can to get them used to it. Have to break them in gently, this was Shrek 3D as opposed to a Straw dogs experience. I may not have agreed with what was going on & maybe many of the attendees were not suitably politically nuanced, but it was a nice day out for the family


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 28, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Yes it was pretty MC. yes it was seemingly sponsored by the LibDem vermin. yes there was a bit of naivety about the nature welcoming bosom of the EU - but the best part of the day was getting the kids into the habit of going on demos - I try as best I can to get them used to it. Have to break them in gently, this was Shrek 3D as opposed to a Straw dogs experience. I may not have agreed with what was going on & maybe many of the attendees were not suitably politically nuanced, but it was a nice day out for the family


next time its molotovs and masks at the G20 right?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 28, 2017)

They are barely teens but .....


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Apr 7, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Can't be voting leave with those dreadful Nationalists.
> There'll be some dreadful Nationalists in Central London on Saturday. Let's see how many can be arsed to show opposition to that.



The thousands who mobilise against Trump and Brexit had better things to do when the EDL/BF marched through London last week it seems.


----------

