# Crown and Anchor pub, Brixton Road, Brixton goes card-only



## boohoo (Jan 29, 2008)

Anyone know anything about this pub? At one of the exits of Slade garden, just the way from Jamm and heading towards Kennington. Always has a slightly threatening air about it. It's not been gentrified and sits quietly there minding it's own business....  perhaps the only pub I remember along that road which hasn't had any huge alterations...

*UPDATE -* go here for the latest posts about the pub


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 29, 2008)

boohoo said:


> Anyone know anything about this pub? At one of the exits of Slade garden, just the way from Jamm and heading towards Kennington. Always has a slightly threatening air about it. It's not been gentrified and sits quietly there minding it's own business.... perhaps the only pub I remember along that road which hasn't had any huge alterations...


 


it's a shithole.  The nearest equivalent I can think of is the Two Woodlice - but I think it probably just beats it.  

Mind you, that was over 15 years ago


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## boohoo (Jan 29, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> it's a shithole.  The nearest equivalent I can think of is the Two Woodlice - but I think it probably just beats it.
> 
> Mind you, that was over 15 years ago



It's never look liked anywhere where I'd want to peak into but I have noticed it's unchanging presence and wondered why it's not gone the same way as Jamm et al...


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 29, 2008)

boohoo said:


> It's never look liked anywhere where I'd want to peak into but I have noticed it's unchanging presence and wondered why it's not gone the same way as Jamm et al...


 


well if it's privately owned and the owners are just about making a living out of it, maybe they're happy enough.  On the other hand, maybe it's brewery owned and maybe they're just waiting for prices to go up before it's sold?  Only guessing.

But, from what I remember, and I went in there quite a few times as a friend lived just down the road, it was a regulars type of pub, with a pool table, and a bit rough, but it was a REAL pub, not the poncey shite you get nowadays


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 29, 2008)

Why not just go in and see for yourself?


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## Winot (Jan 29, 2008)

It'd be a lot nicer with a coffee machine.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 29, 2008)

Winot said:


> It'd be a lot nicer with a coffee machine.


 


latte or crapuccino?


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## editor (Jan 29, 2008)

Winot said:


> It'd be a lot nicer with a coffee machine.


Have you been there? Great! Tell us more! What's the beer like? How about the clientèle? Is it busy?


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## boohoo (Jan 29, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Why not just go in and see for yourself?



hmmmm.... not sure I want to....


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 29, 2008)

boohoo said:


> hmmmm.... not sure I want to....


 


it's not THAT scary 

*cough cough* 

Go on.  Just take a newspaper, sit in the corner with a pint and report back.

Maybe it's not as rough as it was 15 years ago


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## boohoo (Jan 30, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> it's not THAT scary
> 
> *cough cough*
> 
> ...



well, that little bit of south London seems to be rougher than 15 years ago...

I will have a good look at it next time I'm that way....


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## Bob (Jan 30, 2008)

I was wondering that yesterday as I cycled past. It's virtually the only pub in Brixton I've never been into.

While on the topic I went to the Grosvenor recently for a gig - now that's a top pub. Top gig too (Yaaba Funk).


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## boohoo (Jan 30, 2008)

Bob said:


> I was wondering that yesterday as I cycled past. It's virtually the only pub in Brixton I've never been into.
> 
> While on the topic I went to the Grosvenor recently for a gig - now that's a top pub. Top gig too (Yaaba Funk).



have you been to the beehive behind the YMCA???


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## TopCat (Jan 30, 2008)

Install a rich mans kid as owner, then strip the floors, install wifi, an espresso machine, some retro stylee bar billiards, ensure plentiful supplies of coke are available and re name the pub the "Edge Bar" and then start moaning about all the horrible locals.


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## Bob (Jan 30, 2008)

boohoo said:


> have you been to the beehive behind the YMCA???



Nope - will add it to the very short list!


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## ramjamclub (Jan 30, 2008)

*way back when*

My father was it's best customer in 1958
can anyone post a photo of it


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 31, 2008)

they show the football...


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## chriscat (Aug 11, 2011)

Just come across this - http://www.daviscofferlyons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=770

It seems that the Crown and Anchor has been purchased by a London based property company.....


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 11, 2011)

chriscat said:


> Just come across this - http://www.daviscofferlyons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=770
> 
> It seems that the Crown and Anchor has been purchased by a London based property company.....



Another old school pub gone then


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## Brixton Hatter (Aug 11, 2011)

it's been closed and had the 'for sale' signs up for a good few weeks now, maybe longer


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## TruXta (Aug 11, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Another old school pub gone then



Gimme a chance, for crying out loud.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 11, 2011)

I heard it was bought by some pub Company, but is currently ever so slightly squatted 

eta: for sale sign disappeared a while back and it kept trading after the sale was agreed until it was finalised (as I understand it)


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## TruXta (Aug 11, 2011)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> I heard it was bought by some pub Company, but is currently ever so slightly squatted



O/T, but does it bother you that the "b" at the end of your nick is on a line down?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 12, 2011)

TruXta said:


> O/T, but does it bother you that the "b" at the end of your nick is on a line down?



wemakeyousound and beesonthewhatn should get together


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## TruXta (Aug 12, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> wemakeyousound and beesonthewhatn should get together



Oh good one!


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## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 12, 2011)

TruXta said:


> O/T, but does it bother you that the "b" at the end of your nick is on a line down?


well, considering the username is already truncated compared to what I wanted, not really.
Is there still a 15 character limit on usernames on this new forum ting?
/me makes a note which will be forever ignored to inquire about this


Minnie_the_Minx said:


> wemakeyousound and beesonthewhatn should get together


I'm pretty sure beesonthewhatn had a full user name on the previous board though.
/calls sleuth to get to the bottom of this


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## Guineveretoo (Aug 12, 2011)

TruXta said:


> O/T, but does it bother you that the "b" at the end of your nick is on a line down?


On my pc, there is db on the second line and wemakeyousoun on the first line


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 12, 2011)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> well, considering the username is already truncated compared to what I wanted, not really.
> Is there still a 15 character limit on usernames on this new forum ting?
> /me makes a note which will be forever ignored to inquire about this
> 
> ...



I can't remember.  He didn't on the test boards.  Mine goes onto two lines as well depending on how big I've set things


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## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 12, 2011)

no idea about the test board as I wasn't there, but he definitely was beesonthewhatnow on the invision one


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 12, 2011)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> no idea about the test board as I wasn't there, but he definitely was beesonthewhatnow on the invision one



Sorry, though you were.


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## stevebradley (Aug 18, 2011)

Only just seen this thread.

The Crown is in my patch, and I live close by. It was a bit of an 'old man's pub', but wasn't as rough as you might think. The landlady there (a Geordie called Jean) didn't take prisoners and had a tough looking dog, and she seemed to keep most people in line. Its vibe wasn't helped by the fact that you couldn't see through any of the windows into the pub. I doubt many would walk into a bar round there without knowing what kind of place they were entering.

Anyways - good news that it's remaining as a pub. Slade Gardens has a masterplan now for redevelopment, starting this Winter with new children's play space, and there are also plans/hopes to improve that random little cul-de-sac (Ingleton Rd) beside The Crown. A third of the shops along that parade between Lorn Rd and Robsart St are currently vacant, so hopefully the pub can come back into use again quickly and help lift the look and feel of the area.

On a related point, it looks like The Grosvenor on Sidney Rd will probably close down at some point. That is a proper boozer that it would be a real shame to lose, and it has the most perfectly sound-proofed function room I've ever seen/heard.


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## boohoo (Aug 18, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I've never been in due to frosted glass - I do like to know where I'm going to drink! It'll be great to see it stay as a working pub.

So why do you think the Grosvenor will go? It's one of my favourite pubs.


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## editor (Aug 18, 2011)

stevebradley said:


> On a related point, it looks like The Grosvenor on Sidney Rd will probably close down at some point. That is a proper boozer that it would be a real shame to lose, and it has the most perfectly sound-proofed function room I've ever seen/heard.


I know the folks at the Grosvenor very well - I've put club nights on there too - and this is the first I've heard of this. Why do you think it will "probably close"?


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## snowy_again (Aug 18, 2011)

You can't just drop a comment like that and not support it Steve!


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## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 18, 2011)

stevebradley said:


> <snip>
> On a related point, it looks like The Grosvenor on Sidney Rd will probably close down at some point. That is a proper boozer that it would be a real shame to lose, and it has the most perfectly sound-proofed function room I've ever seen/heard.


I haven't heard about this...
I'd like to know the source for this 
The pubco might well want to sell the building but they'd have to sell it with the lease running and it has quite a few years left on it, so no plans for it to close as far as I'm aware .
Then again we did receive an email enquiring about the pub being available for take over before we'd heard the pubco might be selling it, so we're obviously not the first to get informed about this.


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## marty21 (Oct 5, 2011)

Some good news for Brixton, I was chatting to the owner of my favourite pub, The Jolly Butchers in Stoke Newington, and he has bought a pub in BRIXTON! It's on Brixton Road, opposite Jamm? The Crown and Anchor I think it was called, currently boarded up and squatted, the squatters are due to leave in about a week. When he opens - probably Jan/Feb - there will be a MASSIVE selection of ale, plus other foreign beer, Belgium, Dutch, American, etc, plus wine, pretty good grub too. He's a lovely fellah, loves beer, loves pubs, owns a couple of others, The Rose and Crown in Stoke Newington, and the Wrestlers? in Highgate. Stig and Rich know him too and were chatting to him about Brixton as well.


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## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

marty21 said:


> Some good news for Brixton, I was chatting to the owner of my favourite pub, The Jolly Butchers in Stoke Newington, and he has bought a pub in BRIXTON! It's on Brixton Road, opposite Jamm? The Crown and Anchor I think it was called, currently boarded up and squatted, the squatters are due to leave in about a week. When he opens - probably Jan/Feb - there will be a MASSIVE selection of ale, plus other foreign beer, Belgium, Dutch, American, etc, plus wine, pretty good grub too. He's a lovely fellah, loves beer, loves pubs, owns a couple of others, The Rose and Crown in Stoke Newington, and the Wrestlers? in Highgate. Stig and Rich know him too and were chatting to him about Brixton as well.


That's fantastic news!

Thread on the pub here - it was the 'first rock n roll club in Britain.'
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/crown-and-anchor-pub-brixton-road.166030/

Photo feature here:





http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/crown-and-anchor.html

*new thread started


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## Mrs Magpie (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm sure someone came on here a while ago with memories of a relative running that pub.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 6, 2011)

marty21 said:


> Some good news for Brixton, I was chatting to the owner of my favourite pub, The Jolly Butchers in Stoke Newington, and he has bought a pub in BRIXTON! It's on Brixton Road, opposite Jamm? The Crown and Anchor I think it was called, currently boarded up and squatted, the squatters are due to leave in about a week. When he opens - probably Jan/Feb - there will be a MASSIVE selection of ale, plus other foreign beer, Belgium, Dutch, American, etc, plus wine, pretty good grub too. He's a lovely fellah, loves beer, loves pubs, owns a couple of others, The Rose and Crown in Stoke Newington, and the Wrestlers? in Highgate. Stig and Rich know him too and were chatting to him about Brixton as well.


 
That's great news.  It was a dive of a pub but who cares.   Better it stays a pub than becomes yuppy flats/another place of worship


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 6, 2011)

excellent news - it'll pretty much be my local. Its not a great spot for a pub at the moment though - there's not huge amounts of passing trade and that part of Brixton Road isn't pretty. There's a reason it shut down! I guess they will pick up some trade via Jamm though. And early next year the next swathe of "luxury flats" being built on Robsart Street will be for sale and suddenly lots of wealthy young'uns will appear from nowhere to patronise the pub, as often seems to be the case when somewhere like this gets a makeover.

Still, good night in there last weekend....


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## Laughing Toad (Oct 6, 2011)

So some squatters are being evicted so that a businessman can make more money? Typical exploitative capitalists! These people have no shame . . .etc etc


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## Crispy (Oct 6, 2011)

Excellent news. In light of the recent Sun & Doves thread, what sort of pubco/brewery relationship is he going with?


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## marty21 (Oct 6, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Excellent news. In light of the recent Sun & Doves thread, what sort of pubco/brewery relationship is he going with?


not sure tbh, the Jolly Butchers is a freehouse - and that's the sort of pub he likes - he gets a load of local brewers to supply an ever changing menu of beers - Darkstar, Camden, Redemption, plus others - he has Brewdog on tap as well (a 9% beer iirc) Stig will know more about the brewers he uses - doesn't have any mainstream lagers - no fosters, carling, stella, kronenburg, etc - there are some lagers, but I never feel the need to try them when I'm there - He will try out any local brewers and if he likes them, he'll put them on

The place needs a new roof, so the January opening is 'flexible'


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## marty21 (Oct 6, 2011)

Laughing Toad said:


> So some squatters are being evicted so that a businessman can make more money? Typical exploitative capitalists! These people have no shame . . .etc etc


yep, and he can employ local people ,etc - monsterous!


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## 5t3IIa (Oct 6, 2011)

The Jolly Brewers in Stokie is an exceptional boozer, imo. For range of booze, deliciousness of food (four sausage platter! 6 cheese platter!) and friendly, knowlegeable staff. Lucky Brixton 

Mart - The Camel down my way is starting to have selections from Redchurch Brewery


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## wemakeyousoundb (Oct 6, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Excellent news. In light of the recent Sun & Doves thread, what sort of pubco/brewery relationship is he going with?


from overhearing conversations it could be he just bought it, I'd heard something about a "small pubco" which could just be someone who has a few pubs.
I guess there won't be any more punk dos in there then.


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## rich! (Oct 6, 2011)

The pubco own a couple of pubs on Church St in Stokie, I think that's it.

I was talking to him last night and we were discussing what he called "the offering". I said the worst night that I could remember in there, all they had I wanted to drink was Dark Star APA. He fell about laughing, pointing out that for many a boozer that would be manna from the gods.

Might well be down there for the opening, whenever that happens to be...


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 6, 2011)

Laughing Toad said:


> So some squatters are being evicted so that a businessman can make more money?


don't worry Toady mate, there's loads of empty properties round here, take your pick


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## wtfftw (Oct 7, 2011)

Oh. I like the Wrestlers. Didn't realise they was linked.


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## Onket (Oct 26, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> excellent news.
> 
> Its not a great spot for a pub at the moment though - there's not huge amounts of passing trade and that part of Brixton Road isn't pretty. There's a reason it shut down! I guess they will pick up some trade via Jamm though. And early next year the next swathe of "luxury flats" being built on Robsart Street will be for sale and suddenly lots of wealthy young'uns will appear from nowhere to patronise the pub, as often seems to be the case when somewhere like this gets a makeover.



Pretty much spot on, that^

I'm hoping to be ablke to pop in from time to time but it's pretty much out of my way since I moved to Peckham. Used to go past twice a day when I lived near Kennington Park.


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## kr236rk (Nov 27, 2011)

anyone know what's happening to this pub please - last time i went by it looked like they were getting ready to demolish it?

thanks


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## editor (Nov 27, 2011)

It's reopening soon!


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## ska invita (Nov 27, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> it's a shithole. The nearest equivalent I can think of is the Two Woodlice - but I think it probably just beats it.


Two Woodlice isn't that bad - though I prefer the General Scurvey, especially once Rat & Pantry kicks out.


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## kr236rk (Nov 27, 2011)

editor said:


> It's reopening soon!



thanks - there are so many pubs shutting i've noticed - hard times or a shift in alcohol intake, to off licences & supermarkets?


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 28, 2011)

kr236rk said:


> thanks - there are so many pubs shutting i've noticed - hard times or a shift in alcohol intake, to off licences & supermarkets?


the property owners can generally make more money by converting the pubs to flats. Selling beer often just doesnt cut it anymore


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## marty21 (Nov 28, 2011)

editor said:


> It's reopening soon!


there is another thread on this somewhere - as you know it has been bought by the bloke who owns my fave pub - The Jolly Butchers in Stoke Newington - he also owns The Brownswood Park Tavern near Finsbury Park, and the Wrestlers in Highgate - he's a beer nut - so you are in for a treat - a rotating selection of about 8 real ales, plus a few ciders, and continental beers - a real beer heaven. He reckons it'll be open In February - I think works are just about ready to start.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Nov 28, 2011)

Yep, the squatters moved out a couple of weeks ago so works should start soon.


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## kr236rk (Nov 28, 2011)

this is good news: i had heard that the Crown & Anchor was one of Austin Osman Spare's old haunts so it would have been sad to see it go. I couldn't find his name linked with it on the internet though? Spare lived just round the corner at number 5 Wynne Road SW9 (demolished in the '60s).

http://www.fulgur.co.uk/books/uk/the-exhibition-catalogues-of-austin-o-spare/

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/wizard-of-wynne-road-who-was-he.267045/


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## marty21 (Dec 13, 2011)

*update*

Spoke to the new landlord on Friday - can't remember his name  but he reckoned late Feb for the re-opening.


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## joyy (Feb 27, 2012)

Does anyone know if this pub is open yet, or any updates? Ta!


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## marty21 (Feb 27, 2012)

As far as I know- there were additional works needed - they are hoping for early April - not long to go though.


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## MAD-T-REX (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm really looking forward to this since the Jolly Butcher's is such a brilliant pub. I was up there a few weeks ago and had a chocolate stout by a northern microbrewery that was amazing.


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## Brixton Hatter (Feb 28, 2012)

There hasn't been any sign of any work going on recently - just a boarded up pub - so not sure of progress. If they could hurry up please, I'm quite excited at the prospect of a new local boozer, given the other ones closest to me have all closed down (Loughborough Hotel, Paulet Arms, Jamm no longer a pub)


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## marty21 (Mar 6, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> There hasn't been any sign of any work going on recently - just a boarded up pub - so not sure of progress. If they could hurry up please, I'm quite excited at the prospect of a new local boozer, given the other ones closest to me have all closed down (Loughborough Hotel, Paulet Arms, Jamm no longer a pub)


I spoke to the Landlord on Friday night, he was still confident of early April, they are having a special beer made for the opening from Kernel brewers, who are a South London brewery (nr Tower Bridge I think) they do a nice beer


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## Chilavert (Mar 6, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> There hasn't been any sign of any work going on recently - just a boarded up pub - so not sure of progress. If they could hurry up please, I'm quite excited at the prospect of a new local boozer, given the other ones closest to me have all closed down (Loughborough Hotel, Paulet Arms, Jamm no longer a pub)


Some scaffolding has gone up in the last few days I think.


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## Winot (Mar 6, 2012)

marty21 said:


> I spoke to the Landlord on Friday night, he was still confident of early April, they are having a special beer made for the opening from Kernel brewers, who are a South London brewery (nr Tower Bridge I think) they do a nice beer


 
Yep - as sold by Cornercopia (Brixton Village).


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## Brixton Hatter (Mar 6, 2012)

marty21 said:


> I spoke to the Landlord on Friday night, he was still confident of early April, they are having a special beer made for the opening from Kernel brewers, who are a South London brewery (nr Tower Bridge I think) they do a nice beer


great news, cheers 

I will be more than happy to help them test the new beer on opening night 



Chilavert said:


> Some scaffolding has gone up in the last few days I think.


yeah...it's been up for a week or two now


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## marty21 (Mar 6, 2012)

I will venture to that South London for the opening night .


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## Chilavert (Mar 6, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> great news, cheers
> 
> I will be more than happy to help them test the new beer on opening night
> 
> ...


In which case I need to pay more attention when I go past on the bus, I only noticed at the weekend!


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## George & Bill (Mar 7, 2012)

marty21 said:


> I spoke to the Landlord on Friday night, he was still confident of early April, they are having a special beer made for the opening from Kernel brewers, who are a South London brewery (nr Tower Bridge I think) they do a nice beer



Kernel brewery is based in Maltby Street in Bermondsey, the new foody spot that makes Borough Market look like Thornton Heath Bejam c.1991. Absolutely delicious beer, however.


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## marty21 (Mar 9, 2012)

Update , just spoke to the landlord in the jolly butchers in stoke newington , I'm drinking darkstar , April 19 is opening night . He will be recruiting staff in a few weeks and training them in all things beer at the jolly butchers .


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## marty21 (Apr 1, 2012)

*@crownanchorsw9 on Twitter *


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## colacubes (Apr 1, 2012)

Excitaming


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 2, 2012)

cheers for that Marty.

the outside of the pub still looks as grotty as ever but I'm guessing they must be cracking on with the inside. You can't really see inside at the moment, so I'm intrigued...


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## Brixton Blog (Apr 3, 2012)

Just as an update - I spoke to Martin Harley today - who is opening the Crown and Anchor on 19 April. It's going to be along the same lines as the Jolly Porter in Stoke Newington - together with dozens of what he called "craft ales". One thing is certain; the beer will be good. 

I used to work for Martin at the Rose and Crown in Stoke Newington before he bought the JP and he is a good bloke who knows about running pubs. I've done a short post here: http://www.brixtonblog.com/new-lease-of-life-for-crown-and-anchor-brixton-road/

I will be heading down when it opens and report back! Tim


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## marty21 (Apr 3, 2012)

Brixton Blog said:


> Just as an update - I spoke to Martin Harley today - who is opening the Crown and Anchor on 19 April. It's going to be along the same lines as the Jolly Porter in Stoke Newington - together with dozens of what he called "craft ales". One thing is certain; the beer will be good.
> 
> I used to work for Martin at the Rose and Crown in Stoke Newington before he bought the JP and he is a good bloke who knows about running pubs. I've done a short post here: http://www.brixtonblog.com/new-lease-of-life-for-crown-and-anchor-brixton-road/
> 
> I will be heading down when it opens and report back! Tim


Martin is a nice bloke, it's the Jolly Butchers he runs in Stoke Newington btw


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 5, 2012)

will there be a £10 voucher for the first 500 savvy shopers like tk maxx?


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## editor (Apr 5, 2012)

I should be getting an exclusive preview so expect some teaser photos soon!


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## Crispy (Apr 5, 2012)

He's got his work cut out for a 19th April opening, judging by the exterior!


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2012)

Crispy said:


> He's got his work cut out for a 19th April opening, judging by the exterior!


yep, absolutely. The scaffolding has gone now and it looks like the upstairs exterior of the building has been painted, but the rest of it looks as ropey as ever.


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2012)

there's already another thread on the reopening of the pub here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/crown-and-anchor-pub-brixton-road-to-reopen.282115/

could Mods merge please?


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2012)

just went down to take some photos but now i cant find the bloody USB cable for my camera to load them up on here 

the upstairs looks like it's had a lot of work - there's new or refurbished windows and the entire top of the building has been painted a creamy yellow colour. It looks alright. The downstairs looks shabby and is still boarded up. You can see the downstairs bar through a crack in the doorway and it doesn't look like much work has been done yet. It's a huge building (three storeys) although the downstairs bar isn't that big. Will be interesting to see what they do with it.

Coincidentally (or not) there's about 200 flats going up directly opposite on Brixton Road, where the petrol garage used to be. Ready made punters.


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## Badgers (Apr 5, 2012)

Makes me want to move to the area


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2012)

about 3 mins walk I'd say......


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## Badgers (Apr 5, 2012)




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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2012)




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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2012)




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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2012)




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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2012)

potential for a little roof terrace out the front there


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 6, 2012)

a minimal one.
I never actually went upstairs, or downstairs for that matter.
Looks like they've done all the prep job before repainting the lower facade.


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## Brixton Blog (Apr 8, 2012)

marty21 said:


> Martin is a nice bloke, it's the Jolly Butchers he runs in Stoke Newington btw


 
Sorry for the delayed reply. For a few years before he bought the Butchers Martin ran the Rose and Crown, at the other end of Church Street. It was formerly his Dad's pub - a cracking Trumans Brewery pub with the original 1930s oak panelling. He took over running it from his dad in about 2008/9. He had a live in manager there though as he concentrated on the Wrestlers in Highgate.


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## editor (Apr 8, 2012)

*thread merge, right here, right now.


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## marty21 (Apr 8, 2012)

Brixton Blog said:


> Sorry for the delayed reply. For a few years before he bought the Butchers Martin ran the Rose and Crown, at the other end of Church Street. It was formerly his Dad's pub - a cracking Trumans Brewery pub with the original 1930s oak panelling. He took over running it from his dad in about 2008/9. He had a live in manager there though as he concentrated on the Wrestlers in Highgate.


He  still runs the Rose and Crown afaik, he owns it (or the lease) it's a nice place, he also owns the Butchers, the Wrestlers, and the Brownswood in Finsbury Park.


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## Stig (Apr 12, 2012)

Spoke to Yll and Joe last night in the Jolly Butchers. They're ready for the 19th, and I'm really looking forward to it! They have two kegs of Kernel and a shed load of other amazing beer to go on. 

For some reason the opening night starts at 4pm 

what with me being unemployed, I could easily make that, although I'm not sure it's entirely a good idea...


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## Stig (Apr 12, 2012)

Wonder if I should stick it in the noticeboard thread?


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## editor (Apr 12, 2012)

I'll be posting up a special preview on Wednesday!


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## Badgers (Apr 12, 2012)

I am away on the 19th


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## marty21 (Apr 12, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I am away on the 19th


damn you!


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## Badgers (Apr 12, 2012)

marty21 said:
			
		

> damn you!



I will send my people to talk to your people.


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## MAD-T-REX (Apr 13, 2012)

editor said:


> I'll be posting up a special preview on Wednesday!


If you need anyone to help you check it out before the opening, I am prepared to throw myself on that grenade.


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## marty21 (Apr 15, 2012)

Opening this week, I will be making a trek to that South London for the opening.


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## DietCokeGirl (Apr 15, 2012)

This week, you say? Which day? I may have to try some of the beer, purely for research purposes, you understand.


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## marty21 (Apr 15, 2012)

DietCokeGirl said:


> This week, you say? Which day? I may have to try some of the beer, purely for research purposes, you understand.


Thursday the 19th. I will be also researching the beer


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 16, 2012)

The outside has been painted dark green now. It looks ok and they've kept most of the original 'Crown & Anchor' lettering on the signage, which is good. The inside is partly exposed brickwork and partly painted the same dark green.

And in news that will excite beer & cider drinkers everywhere, there are 10 - YES 10 - handpumps on the bar.

Roll on Thursday's research project.....


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## marty21 (Apr 16, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The outside has been painted dark green now. It looks ok and they've kept most of the original 'Crown & Anchor' lettering on the signage, which is good. The inside is partly exposed brickwork and partly painted the same dark green.
> 
> And in news that will excite beer & cider drinkers everywhere, there are 10 - YES 10 - handpumps on the bar.
> 
> Roll on Thursday's research project.....


 Sounds like it will be very similar to the Jolly Butchers - which is a good thing.


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 16, 2012)

All it needs is a garden. I wonder whether they will be allowed to put chairs/tables out on the pavement of that little side street? It's a dead end after all.

There is actually a gate to Slade Gardens right outside the pub, but it's been locked for years. I wonder if that might be opened again?


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## marty21 (Apr 16, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> All it needs is a garden. I wonder whether they will be allowed to put chairs/tables out on the pavement of that little side street? It's a dead end after all.
> 
> There is actually a gate to Slade Gardens right outside the pub, but it's been locked for years. I wonder if that might be opened again?


 The Jolly Butchers doesn't have a garden - but there is a wide pavement on a side street where they have put tables and they managed to convince Hackney to put some bike things (to lock bikes on to0 so you're not right by cars in the side street - I'm sure they have been talking to Lambeth about that side street.


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## Onket (Apr 16, 2012)

Did I hear that this starts at 4pm on Thursday? What time will people be there? I'm only going to be able to stop by for 1 or 2 straight from work.


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## marty21 (Apr 16, 2012)

Onket said:


> Did I hear that this starts at 4pm on Thursday? What time will people be there? I'm only going to be able to stop by for 1 or 2 straight from work.


 I will try and leave here at 4, so should be there by 5, maybe earlier


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 16, 2012)

I will be in there asap after I get out of work - certainly by 5.30pm/6pm I hope.


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## Thimble Queen (Apr 16, 2012)

Excited about this x


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## colacubes (Apr 16, 2012)

Anyone got any idea when they're likely to close on Thursday? I've got to go out to something after work but wondering whether it will be worth popping in for a nightcap on my way home.


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## Stig (Apr 16, 2012)

Onket said:


> Did I hear that this starts at 4pm on Thursday? What time will people be there? I'm only going to be able to stop by for 1 or 2 straight from work.


Dentists at three, so as soon as I get out of there plus an hour for travel. I reckon I'll be there around 4:30 or so.


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## Stig (Apr 16, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Anyone got any idea when they're likely to close on Thursday? I've got to go out to something after work but wondering whether it will be worth popping in for a nightcap on my way home.


don't know, but the Jolly Butchers closes at 12 or 1 depending on the day, so I imagine it might be similar.


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## Ms T (Apr 17, 2012)

I'm off on Thursday, so will probably pop down.


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## Onket (Apr 17, 2012)

There is a possibility my Mum & her husband will be coming too.


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## marty21 (Apr 17, 2012)

Onket said:


> There is a possibility my Mum & her husband will be coming too.


 do we have to be on our best behaviour?


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## Onket (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes.


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## editor (Apr 17, 2012)

Cocks out for the lads!


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 17, 2012)

^^^

lines of K off the bar!


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## Chilavert (Apr 17, 2012)

Might swing by on my way home from work.


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## Crispy (Apr 17, 2012)

Hmm. Would be rude not to


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 17, 2012)

^^^just cos the Ed's promised to get his cock out


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## Chilavert (Apr 17, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> ^^^just cos the Ed's promised to get his cock out


Yes, and?


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 18, 2012)

They have a funky new sign on the front of the pub:

http://yfrog.com/kj6vjtpj


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

Photos coming soon!


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## MAD-T-REX (Apr 18, 2012)

I hope you took a photo of all of the handpumps. It'll probably save me a lot of time tomorrow if I can decide now what I want and in what order.


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## Dan U (Apr 18, 2012)

Onket said:


> There is a possibility my Mum & her husband will be coming too.



Say hi to her, it's been a while


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## Onket (Apr 18, 2012)

Chortle.


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 18, 2012)

They have chairs and tables on the street outside now. And the inside looks nearly finished.


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## marty21 (Apr 18, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> They have chairs and tables on the street outside now. And the inside looks nearly finished.


When I spoke to Yll, the landlord, he said he told the contractors the opening night was last week, to make them work quicker


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 18, 2012)

Damarr said:


> I hope you took a photo of all of the handpumps. It'll probably save me a lot of time tomorrow if I can decide now what I want and in what order.


When I looked yesterday there were no labels on the pumps...hopefully they have remedied that by now!


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

I've just been there and enjoyed some of the VERY splendid beers on offer. Photo report within the hour!


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## marty21 (Apr 18, 2012)

editor said:


> I've just been there and enjoyed some of the VERY splendid beers on offer. Photo report within the hour!


 they had a preview!


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

It's looking mighty fine:












http://www.urban75.org/blog/the-cro...xton-road-sw9-a-new-real-ale-bar-for-brixton/


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## marty21 (Apr 18, 2012)

it's looking right good - a fine selection of Ale and Cider , looking forward to sampling some.


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## colacubes (Apr 18, 2012)

mmmmmmm scrumpy


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## Crispy (Apr 18, 2012)

Looks excellent. Especially intriguing talk of pedestrianising the stub of Ingleton Street - that would be very nice


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

nipsla said:


> mmmmmmm scrumpy


They had a moderately fizzy scrumpy that was indescribably moreish.


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## fortyplus (Apr 18, 2012)

Keeping all those ales in top nick will need a first-rate cellarman as well as some thirsty people to keep the turnover high enough.


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## marty21 (Apr 18, 2012)

editor said:


> They had a moderately fizzy scrumpy that was indescribably moreish.


 did they have their cider and black drink? - Mrs Muggins cider and black or something - that is lovely
noticed the Dark Star Hophead on the bar, that is a lovely pint


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Keeping all those ales in top nick will need a first-rate cellarman as well as some thirsty people to keep the turnover high enough.


These guys know their stuff. They are _fanatical _about ale.


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## northsouthfood (Apr 18, 2012)

The only thing I've grumbled about in this bit of Brixton was the total lack of anywhere to go for either food or a drink. This looks like it will fill this hole nicely, plus if that pub is going to be busier and more bustling, that block shouldn't be so lecherously unpleasant to walk past at night. Can't wait to try it...


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## Stig (Apr 18, 2012)

Looking great! Some really good beers on too, I see they've got Big Chief (the triangular badge with the red writing, it's my neighbours, Redemption Brewery) which is amazing, and the Kernel who are unbeatable, very rare to have any of Evin's beer on draught in a pub. Save me some!


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## MAD-T-REX (Apr 18, 2012)

Good selection, although I hope they get some beers from Red Willow in there soon. Their stuff is great.


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## London_Calling (Apr 18, 2012)

football screens or no football screens - photos suggest the latter?


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> football screens or no football screens - photos suggest the latter?


No football screens. No pub quizzes.

It's a proper pub.


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## fortyplus (Apr 18, 2012)

editor said:


> These guys know their stuff. They are _fanatical _about ale.


That's very good to hear.
'Fraid I'm not allowed more than the occasional pint these days, but when I did drink it regularly, I usually found the best pints were to be had in pubs which kept just one or two beers, and that those with a big range of cask-conditioned ales often served up indifferent pints.  The problem is that you've only got a day or two after a cask has dropped bright to sell it at its best. 
I'll definitely pop up there for a pint soon though, even though I won't be able to make a habit of it.


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> That's very good to hear.
> 'Fraid I'm not allowed more than the occasional pint these days, but when I did drink it regularly, I usually found the best pints were to be had in pubs which kept just one or two beers, and that those with a big range of cask-conditioned ales often served up indifferent pints. The problem is that you've only got a day or two after a cask has dropped bright to sell it at its best.
> I'll definitely pop up there for a pint soon though, even though I won't be able to make a habit of it.


One of the owners can recognise _individual types of hops_. He gets excited if you show him a picture of hops. That's the level of fanaticism we're talking about here.


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## Crispy (Apr 18, 2012)

Hmm, no signs of any soft furnishings at all. It's going to be noisy in there.


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Hmm, no signs of any soft furnishings at all. It's going to be noisy in there.


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## Stig (Apr 18, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Hmm, no signs of any soft furnishings at all. It's going to be noisy in there.


Yep, the Jolly Butchers suffers from that too. I keep trying to get them to felt tile the ceiling or something.


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## Stig (Apr 18, 2012)

editor said:


> One of the owners can recognise _individual types of hops_. He gets excited if you show him a picture of hops. That's the level of fanaticism we're talking about here.


I can do that! for example, see that Kernel one? Got Chinook hops in, that has.


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## London_Calling (Apr 18, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Hmm, no signs of any soft furnishings at all.


Crispy at home, some moments ago:


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## Onket (Apr 18, 2012)

5pm, and not 4pm as originally advised then. That might fuck everything up for me, sadly.


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## Onket (Apr 18, 2012)

Also, got to agree with crispy here, about the noise.

I'm not a fan of these cold bare walled places. Not my kind of look and never feel comfortable in those places. Always looks and feels a bit 'try hard'.

A shame, really. They could have made it much more homely.


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## Mrs Magpie (Apr 18, 2012)

Stig said:


> Yep, the Jolly Butchers suffers from that too. I keep trying to get them to felt tile the ceiling or something.


Books. Wall-to-wall bookcases. Really absorbs sound.


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## gaijingirl (Apr 18, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Books. Wall-to-wall bookcases. Really absorbs sound.


 
*redecorates nursery*


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## Stig (Apr 18, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Books. Wall-to-wall bookcases. Really absorbs sound.


We're OK for sound absorption in our flat then.


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## leanderman (Apr 18, 2012)

editor said:


> It's looking mighty fine:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



nice line-up. i am not inconsiderably excited by this development.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 18, 2012)

Looks good to me. I think I'll call in on my way home from work tomorrow too.


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

Onket said:


> 5pm, and not 4pm as originally advised then. That might fuck everything up for me, sadly.


From Friday the bar will open at 4pm, but I'm pretty sure that it's starts at 5pm tomorrow (as it's their 'soft launch').

*edit: might be worth checking this though


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 18, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Hmm, no signs of any soft furnishings at all. It's going to be noisy in there.


 


Onket said:


> Also, got to agree with crispy here, about the noise.


We took my mates and their small baby to the Florence for sunday lunch recently but my mates' baby just kept crying. We realised after a while that was because it was so noisy - all those hard brick surfaces and wooden floors do make it noisy. Admittedly, it's easier that way in terms of cleaning etc but it can make it so loud that you have to shout to your mate next to you. Still, I reserve judgement and I look forward to trying some great drinks in a new boozer tomorrow.

Great pics above ed, and on the blog, cheers.


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## Crispy (Apr 18, 2012)

Just some curtains would do. You can draw them in the winter to keep it warm, too.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 18, 2012)

might just have to drop in on my way to work


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Just some curtains would do. You can draw them in the winter to keep it warm, too.


You could wear a big cloak and place it over the heads of the people you want to talk to in the pub.


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

Oh, and it's definitely a 5pm opening tomorrow.


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## Stig (Apr 18, 2012)

editor said:


> You could wear a big cloak and place it over the heads of the people you want to talk to in the pub.


How will those who go to the pub for a chat with Crispy know that they need to be heading for the people standing under the blankie?


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## editor (Apr 18, 2012)

Stig said:


> How will those who go to the pub for a chat with Crispy know that they need to be heading for the people standing under the blankie?


He could put a little light on the top with his name on it.


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## Crispy (Apr 18, 2012)

editor said:


> You could wear a big cloak and place it over the heads of the people you want to talk to in the pub.


Good idea!
Talk to you tomorrow


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## Stig (Apr 18, 2012)

Urban75 pub meet, yesterday:


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## fortyplus (Apr 18, 2012)

Deeply cynical theory of mine is that hard surfaces - noisy pubs - makes punters shout louder to have a conversation, for which the throat needs more lubrication...
whatever, the noise and the decline in  top-end hearing acuity means the only hope is for everyone over a certain age who still wants to go out to learn bsl.


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## Onket (Apr 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Oh, and it's definitely a 5pm opening tomorrow.


 
That's what it says on their website, that you've linked to in your article. That's why I posted saying it was 5pm.

I am now unlikely to be able to make it, sadly.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 18, 2012)

perhap i'll have my birthday do there next week.


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## Winot (Apr 18, 2012)

leanderman said:


> nice line-up. i am not inconsiderably excited by this development.



Let's do it. Pick a Wednesday.


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## leanderman (Apr 19, 2012)

Winot said:


> Let's do it. Pick a Wednesday.



the next one! (apr 25)


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## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

The ales and ciders I tasted were_ lush._


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## stevebradley (Apr 19, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> All it needs is a garden. I wonder whether they will be allowed to put chairs/tables out on the pavement of that little side street? It's a dead end after all.


 
I've had a couple of meetings with the pub's owner recently (thanks btw to whoever it was on U75 who passed my details to him - can't recall who) - to both understand a bit about his ambitions for the pub, and to take him through the plans for the area/park. I've been pushing Lambeth to play a leadership role in helping to get that row of shops along Brixton Rd tidied up (a third of them were vacant at one point last year), and we had a strategy all sorted for that until a year ago when the council changed its mind  So I'm very pleased that the pub is getting a new lease of life, and hopefully it will act as a catalyst to lift that whole parade. The owner is uber passionate about his new enterprise, which is great to see.

Re that side street - Ingleton Street - thankfully there are plans afoot to pedestrianise it, which I pushed to be added to the plans for redeveloping Slade Gardens as the street is in need of some serious attention. The idea will be to pedestrianise the road and help it visually blend in a bit better with the park so there's less of a 'leap' from street to park area. I'm personally hopeful that the space could even be used for the occasional market once pedestrianised, so I'll also be pushing Lambeth to do whatever is needed to aid that in future (e.g. strategically placed power sockets). 

I'd a chat with Lambeth Highways this week about it, and they're ready to do the pedestrianisation. However - someone has bought the run down shed at the end of the street next to the park (which had raw sewage flowing out of it for a couple of weeks in high Summer last year. Nice), and the new owner will soon be seeking planning permission to build a modern two-storey house there. No point pedestrianising the street until whatever he is allowed to build there is near completion, so looks like it won't happen for another 18-24mths or so now. But it is scheduled to happen, Highways are very supportive, and it would really help to alter the feel of that area.

In the meantime, a row of picnic tables have been put outside the pub. The pavement there is so uneven/slopey that they had to saw a few inches off the legs of all the tables on one side... 

Lambeth's cycling team have also promised me they'll install some cycle racks there at some point later this year.



Brixton Hatter said:


> There is actually a gate to Slade Gardens right outside the pub, but it's been locked for years. I wonder if that might be opened again?


 
It's currently welded shut. That end of the park got so little footfall that the area around the gate was used a lot by drug users and dealers at all times of day. The lady who ran the Crown before used to keep padlocking the gate herself to try to keep them away, but when the Crown was squatted recently the occupants took the lock off so their dogs could get into the park through the gate. There was a real problem with them not cleaning up after their animals, or apparently in controlling them either, so Lambeth welded the gate shut to keep them out. The plans for regenerating Slade Gardens have included an aspiration to get that gate opened for some time, but the Police felt it was a bit too early to do so when the issue was raised with them last year. However - now there's a pub with big clear windows and outside tables there, the natural surveillance of the area will be pretty huge which should deter a lot of problems there. Also - the owner of the pub has said that he is happy for his staff to monitor the gate and the area. So after a meeting there last week the result is that the gate is due to be reopened any day now (and hopefully before the opening bash tomorrow !)

There's a lot of disposal income in the Stockwell Conservation Area on the other side of the park, but next to none of it gets spent in that part of Brixton Rd. With the gate open and Ingleton Street looking and feeling more welcoming again, I'm hopeful residents there will be more prepared to take a stroll through the park and spend some of their cash in the local shops there along Brixton Rd. And hopefully the pub will play a role in coaxing them down  too.

BTW - for those familiar with the hulking shambles of a former pub on the corner of Mostyn Rd and Brixton Rd (just a little bit north of the Crown), you may have noticed that the corner unit there has been painted white recently and has had a funky mural added to it ? That's going to be a new shop for Cycooldelic - the group from the nearby 'Remakery' in Paulet Rd who do 'recycle a cycle' and other bike related and green activities. They're a very enthusiastic bunch of guys who know everything about bikes, and the new shop will be doing repairs as well as selling recycled and reconditioned bikes etc, and will also have a mini cafe. They're already open for servicing etc now, so pop in if you've got a bike. I'm particularly pleased that they've taken on and tidied up that corner shop, as it will help improve the area. And it's great that they're the first co-op type business to graduate from the Remakery and try to have a free-standing business. So please try to support them.


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## London_Calling (Apr 19, 2012)

stevebradley said:


> BTW - for those familiar with the hulking shambles of a former pub on the corner of Mostyn Rd and Brixton Rd (just a little bit north of the Crown), you may have noticed that the corner unit there has been painted white recently and has had a funky mural added to it ? That's going to be a new shop for Cycooldelic - the group from the nearby 'Remakery' in Paulet Rd who do 'recycle a cycle' and other bike related and green activities. They're a very enthusiastic bunch of guys who know everything about bikes, and the new shop will be doing repairs as well as selling recycled and reconditioned bikes etc, and will also have a mini cafe. They're already open for servicing etc now, so pop in if you've got a bike. I'm particularly pleased that they've taken on and tidied up that corner shop, as it will help improve the area. And it's great that they're the first co-op type business to graduate from the Remakery and try to have a free-standing business. So please try to support them.


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## peterkro (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm pleasently surprised that the police and council are aware of the "independent street traders" who have operated in the street/park and one of the business's for years,it does raise the question of why they never did anything about it,or was it because it's not central Brixton and they'd rather it there than elsewhere?(note I'm not trying to slander any of the business's in the area they had no control over it)


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## Dan U (Apr 19, 2012)

lovely look selection of beer there. assume its not cheap though.

wonder if they will do a tasting paddle of all the beers


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## Maggot (Apr 19, 2012)

What's a tasting paddle?


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## Crispy (Apr 19, 2012)

Maggot said:


> What's a tasting paddle?


One of those wooden boards with three 1/3 pints of different beers, I presume.


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## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

Maggot said:


> What's a tasting paddle?


 






I'll take three please.


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## stevebradley (Apr 19, 2012)

peterkro said:


> I'm pleasently surprised that the police and council are aware of the "independent street traders" who have operated in the street/park and one of the business's for years,it does raise the question of why they never did anything about it,or was it because it's not central Brixton and they'd rather it there than elsewhere?(note I'm not trying to slander any of the business's in the area they had no control over it)


 
The local police in Vassall ward are very good. Not only are they very aware of the issues in that area, they probably know the key drug dealers and users there by name, so I'm not sure why you thought they were oblivious to the problem.

They did lean very heavily on one of the businesses there just over a year ago, and as a result the business installed CCTV in their premises and reduced their opening hours. The alternative was that they would lose their license. They also successfully had seats removed from a food takeaway in the area, which was being used by dealers to hang out in. It's neither quick nor easy to force businesses to do stuff like this - especially if they are either involved in the problem themselves (and I'm not saying they were) or if they feel intimidated by those who are.

Central Brixton has its own dedicated police team above and beyond the usual ward and Met resources, so they are better able to tackle any problems there (thought it's still not eradicated by any means). If on-street drug dealing was a simple job to stop it would've been done years ago, and the Police usually know and do a lot more than people realise....


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## Dan U (Apr 19, 2012)

editor said:


> I'll take three please.


 
thats the fella. i went to a micro brewery in a small town in Australia last year and spent a pleasant afternoon working my way through a 9 beer paddle.


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## Maggot (Apr 19, 2012)

editor said:


> I'll take three please.


Three or Five?

I haven't seen those before, but it's a good idea. There are a few pubs where I've been overwhelmed by the choice of ales.

Is the address of this place 246 Brixton Road?  Cos Google Maps says that's right up towards Vassall Road.


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## Onket (Apr 19, 2012)

stevebradley said:


> However - someone has bought the run down shed at the end of the street next to the park and the new owner will soon be seeking planning permission to build a modern two-storey house there. No point pedestrianising the street until whatever he is allowed to build there is near completion, so looks like it won't happen for another 18-24mths or so now. But it is scheduled to happen, Highways are very supportive, and it would really help to alter the feel of that area.


 
To be honest, that looks like a major obstacle. The owner/tenants of that building are unlikely to want the road to be pedestrianised, imo.


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## colacubes (Apr 19, 2012)

Maggot said:


> Three or Five?
> 
> I haven't seen those before, but it's a good idea. There are a few pubs where I've been overwhelmed by the choice of ales.
> 
> Is the address of this place 246 Brixton Road? Cos Google Maps says that's right up towards Vassall Road.


 
Not sure on the number but it's not as far up as Vassall Road. It's pretty much opposite Jamm.

I'm hoping I may be able to pop in on the way home later. I want scrumpy


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## Biddlybee (Apr 19, 2012)

how have I missed this on every one of my commutes? 

would be rude not to stop in tonight eh?

edit: ah I've been too busy looking at the bicycle on a stick on the other side of the road


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## Stig (Apr 19, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Not sure on the number but it's not as far up as Vassall Road. It's pretty much opposite Jamm.
> 
> I'm hoping I may be able to pop in on the way home later. I want scrumpy


 
The pub address is listed as 246, but in order for my map to show where it is correctly, I've put it down as 272 (postcode SW9 6AH) or else google shows it wayyy too far north.


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## Thimble Queen (Apr 19, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Not sure on the number but it's not as far up as Vassall Road. It's pretty much opposite Jamm.


 

Nipsla is on the money, it's opposite the Jamm. If you're on the bus down Brixton road then it's the loughborough rd stop


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## London_Calling (Apr 19, 2012)

It's basically in the middle of that row/parade of shops op. Jamm, isn't it?


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## DJWrongspeed (Apr 19, 2012)

Does look very 'Loud,' and incongruous with the area.  Not that I have a problem with that. Anywhere that does Brooklyn ale is cool with me.


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## Onket (Apr 19, 2012)

Can someone please have a pint or two of something nice for me? As feared, I can't make this now.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 19, 2012)

I should be there for 'bolts' - managed to cancel a meeting due to be held at 4pm today  (stupid fucking time for a meeting )


----------



## Onket (Apr 19, 2012)

My Mum and her husband won't be there either, in case anyone wanted clarification.


----------



## quimcunx (Apr 19, 2012)

Onket said:


> Can someone please have a pint or two of something nice for me? As feared, I can't make this now.


 
Yeah, whatevs. 




Onket said:


> My Mum and her husband won't be there either, in case anyone wanted clarification.


 
Oh.     Maybe another time.


----------



## Stig (Apr 19, 2012)

marty21 said:


> I should be there for 'bolts' - managed to cancel a meeting due to be held at 4pm today  (stupid fucking time for a meeting )


 
Bolts? Google can't help me with this one, plz splain


----------



## Onket (Apr 19, 2012)

I assumed he meant opening time.


----------



## Chilavert (Apr 19, 2012)

What would be your drink of choice Onket?


----------



## Onket (Apr 19, 2012)

I was planning to try one of those Kernal ales, and probably a scrumpy.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Apr 19, 2012)

Onket said:


> I was planning to try one of those Kernal ales, and probably a scrumpy.


I'm going to stick to ale as I have a fridgeful of scrumpy brought back from Devon.
Well. Maybe a taste of scrumpy, just for comparison purposes only, you understand.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 19, 2012)

stevebradley said:


> ....


 
O.K. fair enough.My experience was a few years ago and I tend to avoid the area at night so probably haven't noticed any improvement,I'm glad the pub has been resurrected which will hopefully bring some much needed life back to that small area which has needed it for some time.
Having had a look I see you live in the ward and not in the northern bit of Stockwell Park road,this can only be a good thing  .


----------



## marty21 (Apr 19, 2012)

Stig said:


> Bolts? Google can't help me with this one, plz splain


 see below


Onket said:


> I assumed he meant opening time.


 

'bolts' is what we used to say when we queued up before the pub opened - the sound of the bolts being drawn to open the door was a welcome one


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## Winot (Apr 19, 2012)

Maggot said:


> What's a tasting paddle?


 
If you don't drink all your beer you get a spanking.


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## Stig (Apr 19, 2012)

Onket said:


> I assumed he meant opening time.


 


marty21 said:


> 'bolts' is what we used to say when we queued up before the pub opened - the sound of the bolts being drawn to open the door was a welcome one


 
My 'Learn a new thing' quota for today is fulfilled.


----------



## Maggot (Apr 19, 2012)

marty21 said:


> 'bolts' is what we used to say when we queued up before the pub opened - the sound of the bolts being drawn to open the door was a welcome one


It was _early doors_ round my way.


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## Chilavert (Apr 19, 2012)

Onket said:


> I was planning to try one of those Kernal ales, and probably a scrumpy.


I'll try one on your behalf.

Middle-class question alert: do they have wifi?


----------



## Onket (Apr 19, 2012)

Cheers.

It certainly looks like somewhere that'd have wifi.


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## Chilavert (Apr 19, 2012)

Onket said:


> Cheers.
> 
> It certainly looks like somewhere that'd have wifi.


I'm sure all the cool kids will be on their ipads.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Does look very 'Loud,' and incongruous with the area. Not that I have a problem with that. Anywhere that does Brooklyn ale is cool with me.


Seeing as that pub reportedly housed Britain's first rock'n'roll club, I'd say it's going to  be pretty tame compared to how it used to be!

(the pub has no TVs or juke box, btw).


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## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

Onket said:


> I was planning to try one of those Kernal ales, and probably a scrumpy.


Good call. The Kernal was lush as was the sparking scrumpy I tried.


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 19, 2012)

Anyone else feeling thirsty? I'm positively parched. Can't wait to get down there and have a scumpy for Onket...


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 19, 2012)

Maggot said:


> It was _early doors_ round my way.


 
I always assumed Fat Ron made that phrase up tbh.


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## Chilavert (Apr 19, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Anyone else feeling thirsty? I'm positively parched. Can't wait to get down there and have a scumpy for Onket...


I'm leaving Westminster now. Depending on the buses I'll be there in 30 minutes....


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## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

I'll be there to night around 8.30 I reckon.

There's been loads of interest in the piece I wrote on my blog too, with over 1,200 page views already.


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## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

Chilavert said:


> I'm leaving Westminster now. Depending on the buses I'll be there in 30 minutes....


Doesn't open till 5pm.


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## marty21 (Apr 19, 2012)

Chilavert said:


> I'm leaving Westminster now. Depending on the buses I'll be there in 30 minutes....


 opens at 5 afaik - so you might have to have some practice  drinks before hand somewhere else


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## Chilavert (Apr 19, 2012)

marty21 said:


> opens at 5 afaik - so you might have to have some practice drinks before hand somewhere else


Balls. I'm sure someone said it was 4 today.

Thanks both for saving me a wasted trip.


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## London_Calling (Apr 19, 2012)

well at least you'll have wifi.


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## boohoo (Apr 19, 2012)

Will they let in ladies with pushchairs? Will this be the next Florence for the Stockwell Park Road mummies?


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## Mrs Magpie (Apr 19, 2012)

boohoo said:


> Will they let in ladies with pushchairs?


Just leave the baby outside with a packet of crisps, it'll be fine.....


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## Stig (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm in the area. Having a quick half in the Grosvenor round the corner - I bloody love this pub, why don't I make it down here more often?

Now that there's the Crown &Anchor too, it makes it worth the trip all the way across from Tottenham a lot more often.


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## stevebradley (Apr 19, 2012)

Onket said:


> To be honest, that looks like a major obstacle. The owner/tenants of that building are unlikely to want the road to be pedestrianised, imo.


 
Fear yee not ! I've met with the new owner of that shed to take him through the thinking, and he's keen to have the road pedestrianised. The street is currently such a dump, and pedestrianising it will make such an improvement to how it looks, that it'd be in his interests to have it done IMO. 

He was originally going to apply for a garage in the new building, but upon hearing of the pedestrianisation plans he's changed that to a bedroom now instead.

So not only not an obstacle, but now actively supportive.


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## London_Calling (Apr 19, 2012)

I should think an extra bedroom might be worth a few more bob that a garage, which might even have helped his thinking.


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## stevebradley (Apr 19, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> I should think an extra bedroom might be worth a few more bob that a garage, which might even have helped his thinking.


 
True. He probably thought the planners would insist on parking. Though the flip side is that a bedroom on ground level opposite a busy pub might be a tricky sell.


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## gaijingirl (Apr 19, 2012)

stevebradley said:


> True. He probably thought the planners would insist on parking. Though the flip side is that a bedroom on ground level opposite a busy pub might be a tricky sell.


 
Stig's Brixton pied a terre?


----------



## London_Calling (Apr 19, 2012)

stevebradley said:


> True. He probably thought the planners would insist on parking. Though the flip side is that a bedroom on ground level opposite a busy pub might be a tricky sell.


Esp. as the pub doesn't currently have soft furnishings. Or curtains.


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## Belushi (Apr 19, 2012)

I need to pop out for some milk anyway, so may as well make a three mile detour to check the new place out.

*Will not be getting rat-arsed on scrumpy on a school night*


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## Orang Utan (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm gonna come down if this rain lets up.
And I'm definitely having drinks there next Saturday now.
Anyone know if they take table bookings or will we have to scrum for it?


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## nagapie (Apr 19, 2012)

Is that your birthday? Early please so both of us can come.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 19, 2012)

how early? just sent out invites saying from 4, but can happily make it earlier


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## nagapie (Apr 19, 2012)

4s ok, we'll be there on the dot!


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## Stig (Apr 19, 2012)

gaijingirl said:


> Stig's Brixton pied a terre?


That's a great idea! Hope it'll be going for tuppence Ha'penny.


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## gaijingirl (Apr 19, 2012)

Stig said:


> That's a great idea! Hope it'll be going for tuppence Ha'penny.


 
or maybe a song and a dance?


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## Crispy (Apr 19, 2012)

Rammed! Tasty beer. Side street to stand in when it's sunny. No music, no football, "this pub's for drinking and talking" says the landlord. I'll be back.


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## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Rammed! Tasty beer. Side street to stand in when it's sunny. No music, no football, "this pub's for drinking and talking" says the landlord. I'll be back.


How was the all important acoustics? Did you need to bring along your Convo-Cloak  ™ ?


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## Crispy (Apr 19, 2012)

It was very loud indoors, because everybody was talking and there were no soft surfaces to absorb the noise. Take the piss all you like, but its a fairly basic principle of acoustic design.


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## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

The Crown, after Crispy's makeover:


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## Thimble Queen (Apr 19, 2012)

editor said:


> The Crown, after Crispy's makeover:


 
So is the bird meant to be Sparrow


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## Mrs Magpie (Apr 19, 2012)

Really good beer but the acoustics are the major drawback. Sound bouncing all over the place to the extent it was really hard to communicate with people sitting right next to you. I expect that in a 'vertical drinking establishment' with loud music, but not in a pub for 'drinking and talking'. I'm actually hoarse from having to shout. If I'm going to drink in there more than once n a blue moon they have to sort that.  Glad they didn't give it a crappy trendy moniker and kept the original name. The beer is very good indeed, it must be said.


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## MAD-T-REX (Apr 20, 2012)

Good beers, although I'd hoped to see some of Red Willow's fine drinks on offer (like in the Butchers).

I've got to agree with the noise complaints - we were almost shouting at each other on my table by 10.30, but we were right in the middle of the bar.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 20, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Really good beer but the acoustics are the major drawback. Sound bouncing all over the place to the extent it was really hard to communicate with people sitting right next to you. I expect that in a 'vertical drinking establishment' with loud music, but not in a pub for 'drinking and talking'. I'm actually hoarse from having to shout. If I'm going to drink in there more than once n a blue moon they have to sort that.  Glad they didn't give it a crappy trendy moniker and kept the original name. The beer is very good indeed, it must be said.


 It was very nice chatting to you all the same.
Agree about the acoustics though.
Very nice people behind the bar and the manager was very amenable when I enquired about booking a large table there next week and bringing children - 'same rule as dogs. They're welcome as long as they're not annoying'' (not a direct quote but something along those lines'.
The scrumpy is almost too quaffable. Will have to start on something else next week to avoid falling over.


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## Mrs Magpie (Apr 20, 2012)

Damarr said:


> Good beers, although I'd hoped to see some of Red Willow's fine drinks on offer (like in the Butchers).


Apparently they rotate the choice of beers often. Apparently they have Otter in the cellar which will be ready soon


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## colacubes (Apr 20, 2012)

I approve.  That is all


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## Orang Utan (Apr 20, 2012)

They sell the only ale I've ever managed to drink a whole glass of - Thornbridge Jaipur IPA


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## Belushi (Apr 20, 2012)

Top stuff, good to see Urbs and non-urb friends, and to finally get a chance to chat with mrs m.

Managed not to get rat-arsed on scrumpy, had just the one pint of Devonshire and then three halfs of Brooklyn Lger, half a Dark Star and a pint and a half of Urbane Guerilla


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## editor (Apr 20, 2012)

I approve too, although I suspect my head may object come the morning.


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## marty21 (Apr 20, 2012)

excellent night, meant to leave at about 9, I think i was 10.30 before I managed to get away


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## Biddlybee (Apr 20, 2012)

nipsla said:


> I approve. That is all


I concur


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## Chilavert (Apr 20, 2012)

The inclement weather stopped me from dropping in on the way home, when do they open today?


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## editor (Apr 20, 2012)

Some pics from the opening night: 











http://www.urban75.org/blog/crown-anchor-launches-in-a-real-ale-frenzy-brixton-road-brixton/


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## Mrs Magpie (Apr 20, 2012)

Very Tall Lodger (who is a cider connoisseur) saw editor's blog feature and noticed they stock Sanford Orchards cider. His eyes were shining! Apparently the UK's best cider, bar none.


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## Kanda (Apr 20, 2012)

Might want to change the Sunday opening hours on that blog page:



> Sunday noon till 11am


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## editor (Apr 20, 2012)

Done!


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## MAD-T-REX (Apr 20, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Very Tall Lodger (who is a cider connoisseur) saw editor's blog feature and noticed they stock Sanford Orchards cider. His eyes were shining! Apparently the UK's best cider, bar none.


The Devon Red was lovely and quite refreshing after a few (quality) ales.

I think I might have to move closer to Brixton. 20 minutes on the 3 after several pints was a bit stomach churning.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 20, 2012)

didn't make it, but soon.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 20, 2012)

Wow, do they put Valium in the scrumpy? Had the best night's sleep in a long time last night. And no hangover!


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## gabi (Apr 20, 2012)

do they do a sunday roast?


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## marty21 (Apr 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> do they do a sunday roast?


 they will do, probably from next week.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 20, 2012)

the manager told me that they weren't 100% sure the kitchen would be up and running by next week but they were hoping so


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## gabi (Apr 20, 2012)

do they do a decent cider besides all that other hugh-fearnley whittinwhatever type stuff?

ie, do they sell strongbow? and a decent lager, like stella?


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## Orang Utan (Apr 20, 2012)

get out!


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## marty21 (Apr 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> do they do a decent cider besides all that other hugh-fearnley whittinwhatever type stuff?
> 
> ie, do they sell strongbow? and a decent lager, like stella?


 lol - none of that stuff there


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## gabi (Apr 20, 2012)

fucks sake


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## Crispy (Apr 20, 2012)

The crisps are Walkers, though. No hand fried camembert and horseradish flavour turnip slices.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 20, 2012)

were you there last night? 
there were too many people to say hello to.
i missed an entire table of urbs


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## Onket (Apr 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The crisps are Walkers, though. No hand fried camembert and horseradish flavour turnip slices.


 
Good.

Wanky crisps are shit.


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## marty21 (Apr 20, 2012)

I do remember speaking to Brixton Hatter and his flat mate, and basically assuming they were a couple when they weren't a couple  (blates should be )


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## Onket (Apr 20, 2012)

The next time I go out for a drink after work I am going to this pub. I just hope that it'll be fairly soon.

Jealous of everyone who was there last night.


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## Crispy (Apr 20, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> were you there last night?
> there were too many people to say hello to.
> i missed an entire table of urbs


I came after work and left early. Without getting a round in  - next time I promise!


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## marty21 (Apr 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I came after work and left early. Without getting a round in  - next time I promise!


----------



## gabi (Apr 20, 2012)

Overall, it looks good...

I will pop in on sunday and have a polite word about the strongbow situation. bit of an oversight there.

how much is a pint generally btw?


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## Orang Utan (Apr 20, 2012)

i'd like to witness that conversation


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## Crispy (Apr 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> how much is a pint generally btw?


I don't know, I didn't pay for any


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## marty21 (Apr 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> Overall, it looks good...
> 
> I will pop in on sunday and have a polite word about the strongbow situation. bit of an oversight there.
> 
> how much is a pint generally btw?


 varies - from about £3.50 to over a fiver for the Kernel (which was lovely) the chances of strongbow being sold are extremely long - they've got plenty of lovely cider and perry


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## gabi (Apr 20, 2012)

over a fiver? crikey. must be a good pint..

£3.50 is decent tho.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 20, 2012)

marty21 said:


> varies - from about £3.50 to over a fiver for the Kernel (which was lovely) the chances of strongbow being sold are extremely long - they've got plenty of lovely cider and perry


 
Some of the stronger ones were about four quid for a half. It's certainly not cheap but you do get what you pay for.


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## Kanda (Apr 20, 2012)

Guinness??


----------



## marty21 (Apr 20, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Guinness??


 no, they do usually have a nice stout on though


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## marty21 (Apr 20, 2012)

they have no big name beers/ciders/lagers - so no Kronenburg/Stella/Carling/Fosters/Heinekin/Strongbow/magners/john smiths, etc


----------



## Belushi (Apr 20, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Wow, do they put Valium in the scrumpy? Had the best night's sleep in a long time last night. And no hangover!


 
I only had one pint of the scrumpy - it went down way too easily and is 7.5%


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2012)

marty21 said:


> they have no big name beers/ciders/lagers - so no Kronenburg/Stella/Carling/Fosters/Heinekin/Strongbow/magners/john smiths, etc


Which is entirely the point of the place: this is where you to discover great new ales and small brewery ciders and beers, served by people who know their stuff.

If you want the corporate megabrands slopped out on the cheap, there's plenty of alternative boozers.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2012)

You can see the prices here. £3.30 is the cheapest pint and Camden Ink is the one that's like Guinness.












http://www2.beerguild.co.uk/?p=131


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## Mrs Magpie (Apr 20, 2012)

Onket said:


> The next time I go out for a drink after work I am going to this pub. I just hope that it'll be fairly soon.
> 
> Jealous of everyone who was there last night.


I'll ask the landlord if he'll be doing lasagne & chips.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 20, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I'll ask the landlord if he'll be doing lasagne & chips.


 I think they charge 50p for a sachet of tomato sauce


----------



## Onket (Apr 23, 2012)

marty21 said:


> I think they charge 50p for a sachet of tomato sauce


 
In that case I am never going there. Ever.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 23, 2012)

Onket said:


> In that case I am never going there. Ever.


 I may have exaggerated that
















massively


----------



## Onket (Apr 23, 2012)

Good God, man. It's no joking matter.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 23, 2012)

Onket said:


> Good God, man. It's no joking matter.


 I don't know what came over me - I've let you down, and I've let myself down


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 23, 2012)

A belated return to this thread..... a great opening night and good to meet some Urbs old and new who I've haven't met before, esp Mrs Magpie and Marty21. Also really good to chat to the owner, manager and bar staff who all seem really committed to the pub and the ethos of good drinks.

I went home drunk, penniless and happy - probably a good sign!

I went back and spent the whole of Saturday night there too.


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 23, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Wow, do they put Valium in the scrumpy? Had the best night's sleep in a long time last night. And no hangover!


Yeah I amazinly didn't have a hangover either. Just goes to show how much shit they must put in mass-produced drinks.



gabi said:


> do they do a decent cider besides all that other hugh-fearnley whittinwhatever type stuff?
> ie, do they sell strongbow? and a decent lager, like stella?


If you like Strongbow, they do a very good cider called Devon Red which is carbonated and pi$$es all over Strongbow (which is my drink of choice) in the taste stakes. If you want a bog standard lager they do Camden Lock lager which is ok, a slightly better German lager and a whole load of others I haven't tried.


----------



## se5 (Apr 24, 2012)

Do they/ are they going to  do food?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Apr 24, 2012)

se5 said:


> Do they/ are they going to do food?


Yes.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 25, 2012)

looks like they've had their twitter account hacked (@crownanchorSW9) - if you get any emails from twitter purporting to be from @crownanchorSW9 don't click the link!


----------



## colacubes (Apr 25, 2012)

Yep.  Looks like they've changed the password now so should be sorted.  Just as well I'd had the same one before otherwise I would have done what I did last time and clicked on the link


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 27, 2012)

They now have free wifi and there's at least 5 new beers on. Things seem to be bubbling away nicely.

Good to see that the tables outside get a decent amount of afternoon sun from across Slade Gardens.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 27, 2012)

i wonder if they'll let us order in food tomorrow. gonna be there all day and i don't think their kitchen is ready


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 27, 2012)

If (and I admit, it's a big IF) it's a nice day you could sit outside and eat....there's a slightly ropey looking Chinese right next door called Hot Wok


----------



## gabi (Apr 27, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> i wonder if they'll let us order in food tomorrow. gonna be all day and i don't think their kitchen is ready


 
I thought you hated pubs?


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2012)

I love pubs.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 27, 2012)

are there any other food outlets nearby?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 27, 2012)

Me too.

A mate of mine accused me of having shares in the Crown & Anchor yesterday....but I just love pubs. Decent pubs.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 27, 2012)

gabi said:


> I thought you hated pubs?


i prefer staying in, clubs or parties, but with big gatherings, one has to settle for the pub


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 27, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> are there any other food outlets nearby?


Yeah....you've got Planet Kebab (not as bad as it sounds) and...erm....not really.

If you walk 10 mins up towards Oval there's a couple of decent delis, the Cable cafe, the Oval Tandoori for a curry etc.


----------



## jezg (Apr 27, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah....you've got Planet Kebab (not as bad as it sounds) and...erm....not really.
> 
> If you walk 10 mins up towards Oval there's a couple of decent delis, the Cable cafe, the Oval Tandoori for a curry etc.


 
I did a double header at the Fried Chicken place on the same row of shops before and after the opening night, wasn't bad if thats your thing. Owner super friendly too and hadn't noticed a new pub had opened virtually next door!


----------



## se5 (Apr 27, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah....you've got Planet Kebab (not as bad as it sounds) and...erm....not really.
> 
> If you walk 10 mins up towards Oval there's a couple of decent delis, the Cable cafe, the Oval Tandoori for a curry etc.


 
Plus fabulous Eritrean restaurant Adulis - http://www.adulis.co.uk/ 

otherwise its chicken and chips - offers such as 4 pieces of friend chicken and chips for £1.99 or similar are unbeatable!


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 27, 2012)

se5 said:


> Plus fabulous Eritrean restaurant Adulis - http://www.adulis.co.uk/


That's more like it!


----------



## George & Bill (Apr 27, 2012)

se5 said:


> Plus fabulous Eritrean restaurant Adulis - http://www.adulis.co.uk/
> 
> otherwise its chicken and chips - offers such as 4 pieces of friend chicken and chips for £1.99 or similar are unbeatable!



Maybe you're thinking of four hot wings and chips for £1.99 - I don't think you could get four of what in the trade parlance are called 'pieces of chicken', as well as chips, for that money.


----------



## kalibuzz (Apr 27, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> are there any other food outlets nearby?


Apart from Adulis and Oval Tandoori there are also a couple of Latin American places, Jamaican, Chinese, Sushi Bar, apart from the Chicken fiends, PLanet Kebab is a classic though


----------



## se5 (Apr 27, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Maybe you're thinking of four hot wings and chips for £1.99 - I don't think you could get four of what in the trade parlance are called 'pieces of chicken', as well as chips, for that money.


 
Ah yes I am - I tend to be very very drunk and so maybe not very observant when I contemplate such foods


----------



## Onket (Apr 28, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> Apart from Adulis and Oval Tandoori there are also a couple of Latin American places, Jamaican, Chinese, Sushi Bar, apart from the Chicken fiends, PLanet Kebab is a classic though


 
Some of them are quite a walk up to the other end of Brixton Rd though. I used to use Oval tandoori a lot (delivery) when I lived round there a few years back.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 28, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> are there any other food outlets nearby?


also you could walk to Stockwell road, loadsa portuguese cafes and eateries about 7/10 minutes away


----------



## nagapie (Apr 28, 2012)

I have just returned. Twas nice. One of our friends got asked to leave He deserved it.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 28, 2012)

Aiming for the first visit tomorrow


----------



## kalibuzz (Apr 29, 2012)

nagapie said:


> I have just returned. Twas nice. One of our friends got asked to leave He deserved it.


Already?? Wait 'till the locals go there lol


----------



## gabi (Apr 29, 2012)

Just been charged £8 for a pint of sierra nevada. When questioned on why that's twice what you'd pay in even shoreditch I was told it was because it was premium and imported. Lol.


----------



## gabi (Apr 29, 2012)

Oh and also been threatened with eviction for questioning this price. Cunts.


----------



## fjydj (Apr 29, 2012)

gabi said:


> Just been charged £8 for a pint of sierra nevada. When questioned on why that's twice what you'd pay in even shoreditch I was told it was because it was premium and imported. Lol.


 
thats not right… should be £4 something a pint *… been in once last week, young girl behind bar didn't have a clue how to pour wheat beer or even what wheat beer was 

*£4.40 at the dog in dulwich... havent been in for a while and thats what it says on their website anyway


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 29, 2012)

Had a wicked night there last night. Great pub. And that's saying something coming from me


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## nagapie (Apr 29, 2012)

gabi said:


> Just been charged £8 for a pint of sierra nevada. When questioned on why that's twice what you'd pay in even shoreditch I was told it was because it was premium and imported. Lol.


 
They have a special imported one (Celebration or something) but when my friend ordered it last night, they told him before they poured it that it was £8, giving him opportunity to opt out.


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## Onket (Apr 29, 2012)

gabi said:


> Oh and also been threatened with eviction for questioning this price. Cunts.


 
You asked how much it was and they threatened to kick you out. Hmmmm.

I sense there might be more to this.


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## Badgers (Apr 29, 2012)

Onket said:
			
		

> I sense there might be more to this.



/subscribes to thread


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## MAD-T-REX (Apr 29, 2012)

nagapie said:


> They have a special imported one (Celebration or something) but when my friend ordered it last night, they told him before they poured it that it was £8, giving him opportunity to opt out.


A mate of mine (not gabi) got burned on the £8 pint this evening, and there was no prior warning of the price.

Anyway, another good night in the pub. They need to update the signs though - the Brooklyn Lager and Kernel were both finished but advertised.


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## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

Onket said:


> You asked how much it was and they threatened to kick you out. Hmmmm.
> 
> I sense there might be more to this.


 
Nope. Just ordered a pint of what should be the cheapest pint on the list. And was genuinely surprised to see a price tag of £8.

Er, that's all there is to it, sorry onket. I hope they don't put 'cheap bar' anywhere near their ads, for your sake


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## Orang Utan (Apr 30, 2012)

One of the many things that led to my friend being thrown out was him writing on the window 'PINTS 99P'.


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## discokermit (Apr 30, 2012)

google is a fucking liar. two hours to get to the pub, from crystal palace! in a fucking hurricane!


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## Stig (Apr 30, 2012)

Damarr said:


> A mate of mine (not gabi) got burned on the £8 pint this evening, and there was no prior warning of the price.





gabi said:


> Nope. Just ordered a pint of what should be the cheapest pint on the list. And was genuinely surprised to see a price tag of £8.


 
apart from the massive price list on the wall directly behind the bar staff?

Sierra Nevada Celebration is not Sierra Nevada Pale ale, BTW. It's stronger and brewed on a far smaller scale. Still shouldn't be £8 a pint mind, but a lot of things are, have you been in the Euston Tap, the Rake Bar or the Craft Beer Co?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah, some of the beers are incredibly expensive but the prices are prominently displayed and there are regular priced (although not cheap) options too. I don't see a problem with having the premium priced options really.


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## Kanda (Apr 30, 2012)

discokermit said:


> google is a fucking liar. two hours to get to the pub, from crystal palace! in a fucking hurricane!


 
It would take less than 2 hours to walk it!!


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## Badgers (Apr 30, 2012)

Kanda said:


> It would take less than 2 hours to walk it!!


 
In a hurricane?


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## Kanda (Apr 30, 2012)

Badgers said:


> In a hurricane?


 
It was hardly a hurricane!!! Bit of wind, yes but come on... REALLY?


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## Badgers (Apr 30, 2012)

Kanda said:


> It was hardly a hurricane!!! Bit of wind, yes but come on... REALLY?


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## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yeah, some of the beers are incredibly expensive but the prices are prominently displayed and there are regular priced (although not cheap) options too. I don't see a problem with having the premium priced options really.


 
Ha.. yeh, the girl who served me justified it with 'it's a premium international beer'. which is true. but then so is kronenbourg by that logic.

(Sierra nevada - £5 for 4 bottles in tesco down the road, this place £8 a pint, and no it wasn't the 'Celebration', just the regular one)

I've *never* paid £8 a pint, anywhere.

Still. It was packed with affluent looking younguns so clearly their market research was good..


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## Stig (Apr 30, 2012)

My rule of thumb in these pubs is cask beer is around three quid a pint, keg can be anything from four to nine depending on rarity and strength. I don't mind sometimes paying four quid for a half pint of thick eleven percent imperial stout. I think of it as like drinking wine.


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## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

Sierra Nevada is the equivalent of stella in the US. It costs about $4 a pint there.

Their cheapest lager - Brooklyn Lager - was off. And even that was £5. Meaning you had to go up to the £8 range. Nuts.


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## Onket (Apr 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Nope. Just ordered a pint of what should be the cheapest pint on the list. And was genuinely surprised to see a price tag of £8.
> 
> Er, that's all there is to it, sorry onket. I hope they don't put 'cheap bar' anywhere near their ads, for your sake


 
I have never seen or heard of anyone being threatened with being chucked out of a pub anywhere for asking how much a pint was.

Fair play to you for sticking to your story, though.


----------



## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

Onket said:


> I have never seen or heard of anyone being threatened with being chucked out of a pub anywhere for asking how much a pint was.
> 
> Fair play to you for sticking to your story, though.


 
Thanks


----------



## marty21 (Apr 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Sierra Nevada is the equivalent of stella in the US. It costs about $4 a pint there.
> 
> Their cheapest lager - Brooklyn Lager - was off. And even that was £5. Meaning you had to go up to the £8 range. Nuts.


 drink Ale - you'll be spending about £3.50 a pint then


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## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

I was born with tastebuds, sadly


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## marty21 (Apr 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> I was born with tastebuds, sadly


 lager over ale ? 

I am an occasional lager drinker btw - it does all taste pretty similar


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## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

£4 of difference apparently

Ale tastes like my dad's socks after two days walkin in circles watching sheep, no thanks.


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## marty21 (Apr 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> £4 of difference apparently
> 
> Ale tastes like my dad's socks after two days walkin in circles watching sheep, no thanks.


then the crown and anchor is not for you tbf - go and drink Fosters at any other pub


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## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

Oh... The irony of a website with a section mourning the loss of traditional local pubs celebrating the opening of a pub where the cheapest pint of lager is £5....


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## marty21 (Apr 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Oh... The irony of a website with a section mourning the loss of traditional local pubs celebrating the opening of a pub where the cheapest pint of lager is £5....


 cheaper lager is available at many other local pubs


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## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

Yep, that's true, thanks for that insight


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## peterkro (Apr 30, 2012)

Walking back from Kennington in the sunshine,I thought I'd call in for a nice pint,doors locked.What time do boozers open nowadays?(midday it were)


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## editor (Apr 30, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Walking back from Kennington in the sunshine,I thought I'd call in for a nice pint,doors locked.What time do boozers open nowadays?(midday it were)


430pm – midnight in the week
Midday till 1am on Friday and Saturday
Sunday noon till 11pm

http://www.urban75.org/blog/the-cro...xton-road-sw9-a-new-real-ale-bar-for-brixton/


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## peterkro (Apr 30, 2012)

Aah,hope I'm wrong but it does appear a bit trendy.


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## editor (Apr 30, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Aah,hope I'm wrong but it does appear a bit trendy.


It serves ale. It has tables and chairs.

There's no music. There's no DJ booth. There's no Sky Sports TV screens. There's no retro-leather sofas and faux vintage tat all over the place.


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## peterkro (Apr 30, 2012)

O.K. I'm not judging it at least until I spent some time there.Although I must say I quite liked in it's previous incarnation (before the music).


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## Crispy (Apr 30, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Aah,hope I'm wrong but it does appear a bit trendy.


The pub design itself is very basic and doesn't really have a style. The clientelle (from what I've seen on my two visits) mostly matches the beer prices. Not particularly trendy, but well off.


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## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

peterkro said:


> O.K. I'm not judging it at least until I spent some time there.Although I must say I quite liked in it's previous incarnation (before the music).


 
Yeh. I think i was living around there in those days. Proper stinky old place.. good to hide away from the lady when required 

I do wonder what happens to all the old fellas who used to drink in all these places (this place, the florence, the regent etc) before they get re-furbed...  the beehive can only hold so many


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## Mrs Magpie (Apr 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> I do wonder what happens to all the old fellas who used to drink in all these places (this place, the florence, the regent etc) before they get re-furbed... the beehive can only hold so many


A fair proportion have shuffled off to the the great pub in the sky that never calls time.


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## editor (Apr 30, 2012)

peterkro said:


> O.K. I'm not judging it at least until I spent some time there.Although I must say I quite liked in it's previous incarnation (before the music).


The pub was falling apart and into oblivion.

Such is the way of pubs these days, just opening an 'ordinary' boozer is unlikely to attract many punters. I'm glad it;s back and has had money invested in it. We've already lost far too many boozers in Brixton.


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## peterkro (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes it's better that it's alive in whatever way.I think part of it is my age,aside from the Albert I don't think there's a pub in Brixton I'd feel comfortable in anymore.The days are long gone for the likes of the New Queens,the Angel,Atlantic,Green Man,Warrior,Coach and Horses,Vomitorium (Bradys)etc.They all died because of ruthless extortion by the breweries and I fear we won't see their ilk again.(cries in beer)


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## Onket (Apr 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> I was born with tastebuds, sadly


 
If this^ was true, you wouldn't be coming out with tosh like this-



gabi said:


> Ale tastes like my dad's socks after two days walkin in circles watching sheep, no thanks.


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## nagapie (Apr 30, 2012)

It was definitely the Celebration that was £8. 

And it was definitely a hurricane!


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## gabi (Apr 30, 2012)

The regular one is £8 too.

For reference I just had one at lunch in fitzrovia.. £4.20.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 30, 2012)

Perhaps you were issued with an arbitrary divtax


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 30, 2012)

nagapie said:


> I have just returned. Twas nice. One of our friends got asked to leave He deserved it.





kalibuzz said:


> Already?? Wait 'till the locals go there lol


The locals are already going there. Opinion seems split. One guy who used to drink there said he'd "been waiting 33 years for a decent pub like this." Another was cautiously optimistic, though thought the beer was a bit expensive. Another guy I spoke to on Friday was proper kicking off about it being ponced up - but the main reason I think he was annoyed was cos he and his mates got told off for talking too loudly, which I thought was a bit out of order.



Orang Utan said:


> One of the many things that led to my friend being thrown out was him writing on the window 'PINTS 99P'.


They have a problem with condensation and air circulation. One of the former regulars is an air con engineer and offered to help the pub with it, but they didn't seem too interested. The owner did say he was gonna sort it out though.



Damarr said:


> A mate of mine (not gabi) got burned on the £8 pint this evening, and *there was no prior warning of the price.*


Apart from the blackboard directly behind the bar listing all the beers and prices 

Those 'craft beers' at the left hand end of the bar seem to be normally sold by the half....and with many of them at 8%+ ABV that seems sensible to me. Which means a drink at about £4 is probably about right.

But obviously yes, £8 a pint is a bit high....so maybe drink something else instead. Like real beer for £3.50.


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## kalibuzz (Apr 30, 2012)

That's the point, raise the prices by selling 'specialities' keep all the undesirables out, if they dare come in find some foolish reason to get rid of them and before you know it you have your middle class pub on the former front line, their enclave of safety. At this rate, Brixton will be more than gentrified in no time and former residents priced and bullied out of their area. not that this comes as big news anyway, but seems to have really accelerated.


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## Badgers (Apr 30, 2012)

kalibuzz said:
			
		

> That's the point, raise the prices by selling 'specialities' keep all the undesirables out, if they dare come in find some foolish reason to get rid of them and before you know it you have your middle class pub on the former front line, their enclave of safety. At this rate, Brixton will be more than gentrified in no time and former residents priced and bullied out of their area. not that this comes as big news anyway, but seems to have really accelerated.



Or go to the Albert and have a pint, baguette and chips for a fiver? Brixton is changing but is not Kensington, nor will it be


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## kalibuzz (Apr 30, 2012)

As someone else said earlier: the Beehive (and Albert) can only hold so many people, almost like pub ghettos, 'keep them in there' coz there is nowhere else left.. It's not Kensington, no, too many council estates that haven't been bought up yet, will be harder to get the tenants out, but apart from the old stock, all the newbuilt ones are housing trusts that are half social housing half private sector, so secure tenancies are already being phased out, so maybe not Kensington but Battersea-ish?


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## Badgers (Apr 30, 2012)

Yup, things change. I like both types of pub though, as do many. A pint of Strongbow being £8 is hopefully a long way off


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## Orang Utan (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm not sure if the intent is to drive people out, but it is an inevitable consequence of free market economics. Look at Brixton Village.


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## kalibuzz (Apr 30, 2012)

of course, money talks. Good to have a diversity of pubs, but even better to have diversity inside the pubs


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## discokermit (Apr 30, 2012)

i went past a pub in west bromwich today, £1.20 a pint.


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## discokermit (Apr 30, 2012)

Kanda said:


> It would take less than 2 hours to walk it!!


the address google gave was wrong. the pub isn't on camberwell rd.

as i discovered after walking up and down that road for half an hour. in a hurricane.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 30, 2012)

I hope you thought it was worth it. I was very pleased to see you!


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## discokermit (Apr 30, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> money talks.


but it don't sing and dance and it don't walk.


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## discokermit (Apr 30, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I hope you thought it was worth it. I was very pleased to see you!


of course it was. backatcha.

did that feller swing you round like i asked him to?


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## Ol Nick (Apr 30, 2012)

I went there last night. Some beers cost £8 a pint but the barmaid warned me before I bought them. It was full of people who looked like they might be from U75 so I kept a low profile. I stayed in the middle with the slightly older people.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 30, 2012)

discokermit said:


> of course it was. backatcha.
> 
> did that feller swing you round like i asked him to?


Yes, many times. He also told me to pull myself together and get a fucking job


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## Onket (Apr 30, 2012)

discokermit said:


> i went past a pub in west bromwich today, £1.20 a pint.


 
You went _past_?!!


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## discokermit (Apr 30, 2012)

Onket said:


> You went _past_?!!


the marksman, carters green. proper shithole. i got barred from there for calling the landlord a twat in '97.

m&b bitter, wasn't any good last time i drank it twenty years ago, doubt it's any better now. they shut the brewery down ages ago so fuck knows where they make it.


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## discokermit (Apr 30, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Yes, many times.


i like him. is he on facebook?


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## Orang Utan (Apr 30, 2012)

He is indeed!


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## Onket (Apr 30, 2012)

discokermit said:


> the marksman, carters green. proper shithole. i got barred from there for calling the landlord a twat in '97.
> 
> m&b bitter, wasn't any good last time i drank it twenty years ago, doubt it's any better now. they shut the brewery down ages ago so fuck knows where they make it.


 
Worth £1.20 though, surely?


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## discokermit (Apr 30, 2012)

Onket said:


> Worth £1.20 though, surely?


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## MAD-T-REX (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Apart from the blackboard directly behind the bar listing all the beers and prices


I've just checked; she's illiterate.

The berry cider is lethal - smells and tastes like slightly over-diluted juice and is nowhere near as sickening as Fruili, etc,, so knocking back several was piss easy.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

If folks want to talk about some horrible looking boozer in the far flung north, kindly discuss it in the appropriate forum. Ta.


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## discokermit (May 1, 2012)




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## gabi (May 1, 2012)

i think someone might have misunderstood the nature of conversation if they're objecting to things going slightly off-topic


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

gabi said:


> i think someone might have misunderstood the nature of conversation if they're objecting to things going slightly off-topic


Just doing my job, squire.

It seemed a bit of a waste to have so much important information about a little known northern pub - with exciting pictures an' all - hidden in a thread about a, err, Brixton real ale pub in the Brixton forum.


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## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> Just doing my job, squire.
> 
> It seemed a bit of a waste to have so much important information about a little known northern pub - with exciting pictures an' all - hidden in a thread about a, err, Brixton real ale pub in the Brixton forum.


That looked exactly like the Marksman a couple of months ago - maybe there is hope for that pub,too?


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## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Install a rich mans kid as owner, then strip the floors, install wifi, an espresso machine, some retro stylee bar billiards, ensure plentiful supplies of coke are available and re name the pub the "Edge Bar" and then start moaning about all the horrible locals.


said in 2008 - psychic


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> That looked exactly like the Marksman a couple of months ago - maybe there is hope for that pub,too?


It never, ever looked "exactly" like the Marksman. It's not even in the same area. Or city. Or part of the country.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> said in 2008 - psychic


It's not owned by a "rich mans kid," there's no bar billiards and the inclusion of Wi-Fi hardly implies rampant yuppification these days.


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## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> It never, ever looked "exactly" like the Marksman. It's not even in the same area. Or city. Or part of the country.


exactly in the sense that it looked like a run down shithole, with piss alley next to it, why so pedantic???


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## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> It's not owned by a "rich mans kid," there's no bar billiards and the inclusion of Wi-Fi hardly implies rampant yuppification these days.


he got the gist of it, imagining a total transformation from a run down pub serving the older generations winos to a hipster/yuppi space where the old drinkers get priced out from, which is exactly what happened.  just stating a fact, that's all.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> he got the gist of it, imagining a total transformation from a run down pub serving the older generations winos to a hipster/yuppi space where the old drinkers get priced out from, which is exactly what happened. just stating a fact, that's all.


The pub was falling apart and soon to join the growing list of closed pubs in Brixton. A group of people pooled their resources together to save the pub and provide something that had a real prospect of staying open and serving the area.

It's almost impossible for small independent boozers to compete with the big breweries on discount pricing, but with the cheapest ale priced at £3.30, a sit down with half a pint is hardly beyond the financial realms of most folks.

Instead of digging up four year old comments about yuppification to have a sneer at the place, I'm just happy it's still there for the local community to enjoy.


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## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

that's beside the point - 'local community' let's agree to disagree


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## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> ...a run down pub serving the older generations winos ...


To be fair, the old Crown & Anchor was often just populated by one man and a dog. Which is why it closed down.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> that's beside the point - 'local community' let's agree to disagree


So what's your argument? You'd rather the pub had closed because you personally object to the fact that it's now not serving the cheapest beers in town?


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> To be fair, the old Crown & Anchor was often just populated by one man and a dog. Which is why it closed down.


Indeed. The only time I'd ever seen it busy was when they did the odd punk gig there - the rest of the time it was just a run down pub marking out time before its inevitable conversion into 'lifestyle flats.'


----------



## Crispy (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> let's agree to disagree


good luck with that


----------



## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> Indeed. The only time I'd ever seen it busy was when they did the odd punk gig there - the rest of the time it was just a run down pub marking out time before its inevitable conversion into 'lifestyle flats.'


well the inhabitants of the life style flats need somewhere to drink, too?


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## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

One of the sad things about all this is that many of the new drinkers I've talked to in the Crown & Anchor never even went in to the pub before, despite living very close to it for reasonable periods of time. I know the old place didn't look very welcoming from the outside (you couldn't see in through the windows/doors) but I personally find it extremely difficult to not go in a pub which is right next to my house!


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> well the inhabitants of the life style flats need somewhere to drink, too?


I think I'll wait until you manage to come up with a point that makes some sense, preferably without recourse to pointlessly dredging up four year old quotes.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 1, 2012)

Actually I think it's a good example of the complexities of the gentrification debate. It really isn't for 'hipsters and yuppies' in my opinion. The cheaper end of the beer sold is about the same price as most places (including the older local pubs) and given that the place has been closed for years it hasn't squeezed out a much loved local. Seeing as no-one in their right mind would attempt to recreate an old, mostly empty pub, due to the economics, and I'm not sure you could properly recreate that sort of atmosphere in a new place even if you wanted to, it's probably about as good as you could hope for in that location from most viewpoints.

But is it gentrifying? It definitely is. It will attract more people and make that area more desirable and ultimately contribute just a little bit to pushing up prices.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> But is it gentrifying? It definitely is. It will attract more people and make that area more desirable and ultimately contribute just a little bit to pushing up prices.


That process is already well under way - look at the big blocks being built next to JAMM. I wonder how long it'll be before those new residents start lodging complaints about the noise too (a la Duke of Edinburgh).


----------



## Crispy (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> That process is already well under way - look at the big blocks being built next to JAMM. I wonder how long it'll be before those new residents start lodging complaints about the noise too (a la Duke of Edinburgh).


The new flats next to Jamm have been complete for years now. The new ones are a good 50m away so shouldn't be a problem as far as noise complaints are concerned.


----------



## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> I think I'll wait until you manage to come up with a point that makes some sense, preferably without recourse to pointlessly dredging up four year old quotes.


I might not make sense to you and whether what I have to say is pointless or not is open to debate. Or maybe you are Judge not Editor?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Actually I think it's a good example of the complexities of the gentrification debate. It really isn't for 'hipsters and yuppies' in my opinion. The cheaper end of the beer sold is about the same price as most places (including the older local pubs) and given that the place has been closed for years it hasn't squeezed out a much loved local. Seeing as no-one in their right mind would attempt to recreate an old, mostly empty pub, due to the economics, and I'm not sure you could properly recreate that sort of atmosphere in a new place even if you wanted to, it's probably about as good as you could hope for in that location from most viewpoints.


Couldn't agree more.



Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> But is it gentrifying? It definitely is. It will attract more people and make that area more desirable and ultimately contribute just a little bit to pushing up prices.


I don't think the pub itself is 'gentrifying' necessarily. Wealthy young professional people already live in the area because of the relatively good value property/new property and proximity to the tube. But there was nowhere around there where they were spending their money. Now the pub has opened some of the community is out drinking in the pub, instead of sitting in front of the telly or doing whatever it was they were doing before. It's just more visible perhaps.


----------



## Crispy (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> It's just more visible perhaps.


Without a doubt. The new owner knew exactly what he was doing when he bought this place.


----------



## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> 
> I don't think the pub itself is 'gentrifying' necessarily. Wealthy young professional people already live in the area because of the relatively good value property/new property and proximity to the tube. But there was nowhere around there where they were spending their money. Now the pub has opened some of the community is out drinking in the pub, instead of sitting in front of the telly or doing whatever it was they were doing before. It's just more visible perhaps.


exactly. now they don't need to go to Clapham anymore


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Without a doubt. The new owner knew exactly what he was doing when he bought this place.


Yep....as I predicted earlier in this thread. He even waited 6 months and let the squatters stay in the pub for a bit whilst the flats opposite were being finished. There's a whole load of new flats being built round the corner on Robsart Street, with a load more finished about 6-12 months ago. There's probably at least 1000 additional, relatively wealthy people living in that area than there was a year or two ago.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I don't think the pub itself is 'gentrifying' necessarily. Wealthy young professional people already live in the area because of the relatively good value property/new property and proximity to the tube. But there was nowhere around there where they were spending their money. Now the pub has opened some of the community is out drinking in the pub, instead of sitting in front of the telly or doing whatever it was they were doing before. It's just more visible perhaps.


 
Fair point but I do think it's part of the process. Obviously it's not as simple as 'new pub opens, prices go through roof, area becomes trendy' (although some of the Brixton Village threads veer in that direction) but it is another small step that way IMO.


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## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yep....as I predicted earlier in this thread. He even waited 6 months and let the squatters stay in the pub for a bit whilst the flats opposite were being finished. There's a whole load of new flats being built round the corner on Robsart Street, with a load more finished about 6-12 months ago. There's probably at least 1000 additional, relatively wealthy people living in that area than there was a year or two ago.


True, I went to see the layouts some years ago in Stockwell Community Centre, as some of the flats had to be social housing. When I questioned the developer about the open kitchen designs which is often not suitable for large families and undesired as well due to cooking smells  he made it quite clear that they were designed with professional people in mind, they go and eat out. Well counsil tenants can go live outside of London then ..


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The new flats next to Jamm have been complete for years now. The new ones are a good 50m away so shouldn't be a problem as far as noise complaints are concerned.


The noise complaints may well come from people leaving the pub and thus upset the nu-residents. A friend of mine had a proposed venue in Loughborough Junction refused for that very reason, despite the fact that the nearest housing was some distance away.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yep....as I predicted earlier in this thread. He even waited 6 months and let the squatters stay in the pub for a bit whilst the flats opposite were being finished. There's a whole load of new flats being built round the corner on Robsart Street, with a load more finished about 6-12 months ago. There's probably at least 1000 additional, relatively wealthy people living in that area than there was a year or two ago.


The presence of newly-arriving, relatively wealthy people in the area doesn't always guarantee the survival of a pub though. Sadly.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> True, I went to see the layouts some years ago in Stockwell Community Centre, as some of the flats had to be social housing. When I questioned the developer about the open kitchen designs which is often not suitable for large families and undesired as well due to cooking smells he made it quite clear that they were designed with professional people in mind, they go and eat out. Well counsil tenants can go live outside of London then ..


Same as the redevelopment of Myatts Field North estate.


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## fortyplus (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> 
> I don't think the pub itself is 'gentrifying' necessarily. Wealthy young professional people already live in the area because of the relatively good value property/new property and proximity to the tube. But there was nowhere around there where they were spending their money. Now the pub has opened some of the community is out drinking in the pub, instead of sitting in front of the telly or doing whatever it was they were doing before. It's just more visible perhaps.


But it's part of a vicious, or virtuous, spiral of gentrification. Professional people move to a working-class area because it's well-located for the tube and the property is cheap. Enterprises spring up to serve them - whether it's in Brixton Village or Brixton Road. The existence of eateries and revitalised pubs just makes the area even more attractive to professionals, pushing prices up further. 
Often though it goes too far.  High prices push up mortgage costs, punters cut back on discretionary spending such as pubs and eating out, businesses go bust, the place gets run down again. It's happened often enough round here before. However, I do think we are seeing a long-term revival of the inner cities driven largely by rising fuel costs which make suburban living less attractive. A generation ago, yuppies moved out of Clapham to breed in Godalming; now they stay into middle-age, so the next cohort that would have taken their place has to look at places like Brixton.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> exactly. now they don't need to go to Clapham anymore


Have you been to Clapham recently? I don't think this pub is much like what's popular there.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> But it's part of a vicious, or virtuous, spiral of gentrification. Professional people move to a working-class area because it's well-located for the tube and the property is cheap. Enterprises spring up to serve them - whether it's in Brixton Village or Brixton Road. The existence of eateries and revitalised pubs just makes the area even more attractive to professionals, pushing prices up further.


Yeah I think that's fair enough. The pub is a sympton of a process that has been going on for years.


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## kalibuzz (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Same as the redevelopment of Myatts Field North estate.


so out of 808 new built homes, 146 will be affordable. wow


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## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> so out of 808 new built homes, 146 will be affordable. wow


Yeah - and that's "affordable". As in, the only way you can afford it is to buy a mere 25% of it and rent the rest off the developer. So definitely not social housing. And only "affordable" to people with relatively good incomes anyway.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

*daydreams

If I got into power, there'd be council homes for all.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> If I got into power, there'd be council homes for all.


Yep, lack of council-owned or social housing is a huge problem. Instead, we (taxpayers, via HB etc) subsidise private landlords to make profits out of housing people.


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## Crispy (May 1, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> However, I do think we are seeing a long-term revival of the inner cities driven largely by rising fuel costs which make suburban living less attractive. A generation ago, yuppies moved out of Clapham to breed in Godalming; now they stay into middle-age, so the next cohort that would have taken their place has to look at places like Brixton.


 
This, I think, is the root of the phenomenon. London especially is seeing a massive resurgence in population after decades of decline. An extra million people in the last 20 years (and another million in the next 20, no doubt). Coupled with housing policies that are designed to keep the property bubble inflated (not that this is expicitly stated), and you get what you see today.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

When I was on the dole, the council was paying my rip-off landlord a wad of cash for a shithole. He must have been laughing all the way to the bank.


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## Mrs Magpie (May 1, 2012)

I'm just glad to see a Free House with well kept ale and cider. There's nowhere else in Brixton like it. I've only been there once in its new incarnation because I've not been well so maybe I'm not qualified to comment on the clientele. Anyway, I saw a lot of very long term residents, drank some lovely beer and went home to my estate. I wasn't the only person there I know who was in social housing, either.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I'm just glad to see a Free House with well kept ale and cider. There's nowhere else in Brixton like it...


 Spot on.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I'm just glad to see a Free House with well kept ale and cider. There's nowhere else in Brixton like it. I've only been there once in its new incarnation because I've not been well so maybe I'm not qualified to comment on the clientele. Anyway, I saw a lot of very long term residents, drank some lovely beer and went home to my estate. I wasn't the only person there I know who was in social housing, either.


Yep. It's a great addition to the area.


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## MAD-T-REX (May 1, 2012)

The complaints about it being a young/trendy bar are off the mark because the pub's main draw is well-kept ales. My friends who enjoy trying new drinks (and actually have taste in beer) love it, but most of my drinking buddies are like 'Where's the music and pool table?'

The type of people who are despised on this forum want pints of Stella Artois Black or terribly kept Doombar for a treat; how many handpumps a pub has means nothing to them and they won't be flocking to the C&A.


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## Winot (May 1, 2012)

Yep, I reckon the Camra-crew would choke on their beer nuts if they were described as young/trendy.


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## TopCat (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> It's not owned by a "rich mans kid," there's no bar billiards and the inclusion of Wi-Fi hardly implies rampant yuppification these days.


<Chortle>!


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## TopCat (May 1, 2012)

I'm glad to see the pub still open myself.


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## marty21 (May 1, 2012)

The owner is basically a fan of pubs - he loves pubs where people can talk, and drink beer, without fruit machines and telly getting in the way.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

marty21 said:


> The owner is basically a fan of pubs - he loves pubs where people can talk, and drink beer, without fruit machines and telly getting in the way.


GENTRIFIER!

:d


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 1, 2012)

Damarr said:


> The complaints about it being a young/trendy bar are off the mark because the pub's main draw is well-kept ales. My friends who enjoy trying new drinks (and actually have taste in beer) love it, but most of my drinking buddies are like 'Where's the music and pool table?'
> 
> The type of people who are despised on this forum want pints of Stella Artois Black or terribly kept Doombar for a treat; how many handpumps a pub has means nothing to them and they won't be flocking to the C&A.


 
This is entirely true. To go back to my earlier point this is why the place is a good example of the complexity of the issue though because IMO it's still clearly part of the cycle of gentrification. The 'hipster' thing looks like a way of picking on a small, visible element to avoid the point - who has more power to push up property prices, a middle aged lawyer who likes the occasional real ale or some 20 year old art student who spends his money on tight jeans or funny haircuts?


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

Thing is, the Anchor _really_ isn't a hipster pub.


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## Orang Utan (May 1, 2012)

No, it's an aging hipster pub


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## Crispy (May 1, 2012)

"hipster" is one of those words that's worn out through overuse.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> "hipster" is one of those words that's worn out through overuse.


Although it conjures up a fairly standardised image.


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## Onket (May 1, 2012)

discokermit said:


>


 
What's going on there, then?


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## Jono6000 (May 1, 2012)

Agree once you get in there and have a beer it's a world away from the nightmarish places on Clapham High Street and I can't really see it appealing to that crowd. Yeah it looks quite 'hip' and I'd personally like it better if it felt a bit cosier but there's no other pub nearby that comes close to it in terms of beer. (Will be interesting to see if they can keep that many on tap/pump at once and maintain the quality over time.)
It seems to have fairly broad appeal, like a good local should - when I went in the front half of the pub was pretty raucous, with the back half consisting of a group with young kids, and a couple of, yes, hipsters watching movies through headphones on their MacBook Pros (which is really quite unforgiveable), and a few Camra types scattered around for good measure. Everyone seemed to be having a good time. I hope they can keep the balance between 'destination' pub and decent local once word gets around and people start coming from further afield.


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## Onket (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> *daydreams
> 
> If I got into power, there'd be council homes for all.


 
If folks want to talk about what they'd do if they got into power, in their daydreams, kindly discuss it in the appropriate forum. Ta.


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## Crispy (May 1, 2012)




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## marty21 (May 1, 2012)

Jono6000 said:


> . Will be interesting to see if they can keep that many on tap/pump at once and maintain the quality over time.


 
they have been doing that very well in the Hackney sister pub, The Jolly Butchers.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

Onket said:


> If folks want to talk about what they'd do if they got into power, in their daydreams, kindly discuss it in the appropriate forum. Ta.


*lobbies mods for opening up a new 'power daydreaming' forum.


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## Winot (May 1, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> who has more power to push up property prices, a middle aged lawyer who likes the occasional real ale [snip]


 
*feels guilty*


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## leanderman (May 1, 2012)

Winot said:


> *feels guilty*


 
And the occasion is tomorrow night. I have a 'pass'. Crown & Anchor at 8-ish.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (May 1, 2012)

So does the Crown and Anchor open in the daytime or is it following this annoying trend of not opening 'til 5.00pm?

I was gasping for a drink yesterday afternoon after gardening, and White Horse and George IV don't open 'til 5.00pm and Elm Park wasn't opened 'til 5.00pm either.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

Well so much for gentrification of the area - there's a payday loan/money lending shop opening next door to the crown + anchor. I guess that's potentially helpful if (as has happened several times recently) I leave the place pennilless after a day of drinking.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 1, 2012)

Minnie - it opens at 4pm. 

Hob / hootacanning is open all day.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (May 1, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Minnie - it opens at 4pm.
> 
> Hob / hootacanning is open all day.


 
The ones up NPR open proper times, but we'd already been down to the EPT and George IV and then White Horse so anywhere after that was too far


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## discokermit (May 1, 2012)

Onket said:


> What's going on there, then?


can't say. the censor has spoken.


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## editor (May 1, 2012)

discokermit said:


> can't say. the censor has spoken.


((((oppressed poster))))

Or, alternatively, you could you start up a thread and post up as many pictures of exciting northern pub action as you like without fear of it looking a bit out of place in a thread and forum dedicated to Brixton.

No 'censorship,' just sensible advice to help others.


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## discokermit (May 1, 2012)

editor said:


> ((((oppressed poster))))
> 
> Or, alternatively, you could you start up a thread and post up as many pictures of exciting northern pub action as you like without fear of it looking a bit out of place in a thread and forum dedicated to Brixton.
> 
> No 'censorship' just sensible advice to help others.


.


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## Onket (May 1, 2012)

He said 'no censorship', so go ahead and tell me about the pub, dammit.


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## Onket (May 1, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> So does the Crown and Anchor open in the daytime or is it following this annoying trend of not opening 'til 5.00pm?
> 
> I was gasping for a drink yesterday afternoon after gardening, and White Horse and George IV don't open 'til 5.00pm and Elm Park wasn't opened 'til 5.00pm either.


 
Off-licence?


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## discokermit (May 1, 2012)

Onket said:


> He said 'no censorship', so go ahead and tell me about the pub, dammit.


drug raid.


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## Onket (May 1, 2012)

Seems so obvious now.


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## discokermit (May 1, 2012)

Onket said:


> Seems so obvious now.


shame the conversation wasn't allowed to flow naturally. gave it more importance than it was due.


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## Onket (May 1, 2012)

It did, didn't it.

Live and learn. Well, some do.


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## discokermit (May 1, 2012)

some.


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## kalibuzz (May 2, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Well so much for gentrification of the area - there's a payday loan/money lending shop opening next door to the crown + anchor. I guess that's potentially helpful if (as has happened several times recently) I leave the place pennilless after a day of drinking.


well they need more of them for those people that can't afford the local prices anymore


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## editor (May 2, 2012)

I think, given the choice, the majority of even the _poorest_ locals would rather the pub - even with its non-bargain basement prices - be at least there and open.

Their financial fortunes may change but when a pub closes it's almost always gone forever - and that was almost certainly the fate of the Crown if this lot hadn't taken it over.


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## Chilavert (May 2, 2012)

In the Lyric on Great Windmill Street and just ordered myself a pint of Sierra Nevada for the bargain price of £5. *smug*


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## Mrs Magpie (May 2, 2012)

Chilavert said:


> In the Lyric on Great Windmill Street and just ordered myself a pint of Sierra Nevada for the bargain price of £5. *smug*


Ah, but was it bog standard Sierra Nevada or Sierra Nevada Celebration? There's a difference.


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## Onket (May 2, 2012)

No pint is worth a fiver, tbf.

Give it a year or so, though!


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## Chilavert (May 3, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Ah, but was it bog standard Sierra Nevada or Sierra Nevada Celebration? There's a difference.


It was just the bog standard one Mrs M. Might head to the Crown this evening to taste the £8 version to see if I can tell the difference.


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## Mrs Magpie (May 3, 2012)

Next time I go I shall be sticking to cider


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## Winot (May 3, 2012)

Chilavert said:


> It was just the bog standard one Mrs M. Might head to the Crown this evening to taste the £8 version to see if I can tell the difference.



Had a half of it last night (didn't want to break the bank). It's quite different to the standard SN - deeper in colour, richer in taste, more complex all round. A sipping beer not a session beer.


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## editor (May 3, 2012)

Onket said:


> No pint is worth a fiver, tbf.
> 
> Give it a year or so, though!


They all taste the same after about five of them anyway


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## Winot (May 3, 2012)

Very impressed with the Crown anyway, although my head isn't this morning. 

Not impressed at the scarcity of places to carry on drinking at midnight in central Brixton, although it's probably for my own good.


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## editor (May 3, 2012)

Winot said:


> Not impressed at the scarcity of places to carry on drinking at midnight in central Brixton, although it's probably for my own good.


There's the Dogstar. And the Bar and Grill, for starters.


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## Winot (May 3, 2012)

editor said:


> There's the Dogstar. And the Bar and Grill, for starters.



Dogstar was closed.


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## editor (May 3, 2012)

Winot said:


> Dogstar was closed.


Really? It's supposed to stay open till 2am on a Wednesday. Did you try Kaff?


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## Winot (May 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Really? It's supposed to stay open till 2am on a Wednesday. Did you try Kaff?



Nah, went the other way to Electric Social (also closing).


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## Sigmund Fraud (May 3, 2012)

editor said:


> It's looking mighty fine:


 
Delerium Tremens on tap!!!


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## Urbanblues (May 3, 2012)

My workmates visited the Crown and Anchor in Brixton Road last week. They quite enjoyed it; found the drinks ok; and the ambience enjoyable.

Sadly, this is yet another pub in the area that I can't use due to lack of accessibility. According to my friends, there is an imposing front step and the loos are all downstairs; which is kind of fucking awkward for me, as a wheelchair user.

What a shame; well for me it is.

It wouldn't be so bad if the place was a pokey little pub; but passing the Crown and Anchor to and from work every day, I can't help to notice that it is quite long. Long enough to have accommodated a two-metre square partitioned-off Kharzy.

Sure, it would have displaced a couple of tables; maybe even attracted the wrong kind of boozers - you know, wheelchair users, associated cripples and Radar key users.

Hmm, on reflection, I can actually sympathise with the publican and his clientele; once you let one in, your guard drops, then you're fucked. You end up with an alehouse that attracts a more rounded cross-section of the area.


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## editor (May 4, 2012)

The loos are indeed downstairs which, but I'm not sure that the front step is that imposing for wheelchair users - here's a photo of it:






Have you contacted the owners? I would have thought it would be worth voicing your concerns and seeing what they might be able to do to make it properly accessible.


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## Urbanblues (May 4, 2012)

The front step looks to be around 6" high. Just look at the height the person in the photo has lifted her/his leg; and, judging by the foot's distance from the step I'd say that leg is still rising.

An independent wheelchair user could encounter difficulties managing a step that high. Of course, there are a range of portable ramps around that would sort out this access problem, with the advantage of being compact enough to tuck away in a discrete corner - like a disabled toilet.

Not yet, Ed. I'm hoping to do so at the weekend.


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## marty21 (May 4, 2012)

Good point Urbanblues, what are the accessibility rules for pubs? Most pubs I go to seem to have inaccessible loos for wheelchair users, are they exempt from those rules?


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## Onket (May 4, 2012)

A radar key is a useful bit of kit for someone interested in a bit of nose bother, btw.


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## George & Bill (May 6, 2012)

In the context of fully marketised housing provision - something we're still far from, but moving towards - the distinction between things that regenerate an area and those that gentrify it is virtually meaningless. In this context, having an open Post Office rather than a closed-down one, or having less street crime are gentrification, because anything that makes an area more attractive to live in will increase the amount that can be charged for housing and so determine who can live there.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 6, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> In the context of fully marketised housing provision - something we're still far from, but moving towards - the distinction between things that regenerate an area and those that gentrify it is virtually meaningless. In this context, having an open Post Office rather than a closed-down one, or having less street crime are gentrification, because anything that makes an area more attractive to live in will increase the amount that can be charged for housing and so determine who can live there.


 
I think this is true. The other thing is that, for the same reasons, it's not really caused by people acting badly. Ultimately anyone who can afford to pay more than someone else for housing is pushing prices up to some degree, and you don't need to be a hipster, a Claphamite or even a particularly rich person, for that to be the case.


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## MAD-T-REX (May 7, 2012)

The weekly tweet with the new selection of drinks is one of the few things worth reading on Twitter:


> OTB: Darkstarbrewco Revelation, Hophead Titanic_Brewers Plum porter, crouchvale Amarillo ,  thornbridge Lord Marples, Saquoia.


https://twitter.com/#!/crownanchorsw9/status/199467094214053888

Reckon I'll try the plum porter and Amarillo this evening.


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## kalibuzz (May 7, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> In the context of fully marketised housing provision - something we're still far from, but moving towards - the distinction between things that regenerate an area and those that gentrify it is virtually meaningless. In this context, having an open Post Office rather than a closed-down one, or having less street crime are gentrification, because anything that makes an area more attractive to live in will increase the amount that can be charged for housing and so determine who can live there.


This is somehow totally besides the point, because an open post office will not make an area more attractive to live in, gentrification relates to middle-class people moving into central, cheap, residential neighbourhoods due to the low prices and creating a completely different dempgraphic (smaller households and higher disposable incomes) which is followed by businesses catering for those salaries. Th old residents on low income will find it hard to afford the prices and can  can be effectively evicted and moved to cheaper , outskirts areas , bringing in a HB cap will deal with the most undesirable tenants. recent rioting for economic gain is hardly surprising, and an outcome of not teaching politics at school.
Personally, I don't think it is a surprise the Black Archives building company has collapsed, and the project is delayed, but that's another thread


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## gabi (May 8, 2012)

Good news. Apparently they've slashed the price of Sierra Nevada from £8 to £5.60  (which is still obscene but i guess it's better than nothing)


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## marty21 (May 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> Good news. Apparently they've slashed the price of Sierra Nevada from £8 to £5.60  (which is still obscene but i guess it's better than nothing)


 consumer power!


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## twistedAM (May 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> Good news. Apparently they've slashed the price of Sierra Nevada from £8 to £5.60  (which is still obscene but i guess it's better than nothing)


 
No. Nothing is a better price than £5.60.
How much Sierra Nevada do you get for that anyway? Is it on draught?


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## marty21 (May 8, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> No. Nothing is a better price than £5.60.
> How much Sierra Nevada do you get for that anyway? Is it on draught?


yep, a pint, on draught


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## twistedAM (May 8, 2012)

marty21 said:


> yep, a pint, on draught


 
Wow. Never heard of that before in this country. Decent price considering it's come half way around the world.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 8, 2012)

The manager says food should be available in the next week or so.


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## George & Bill (May 8, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> This is somehow totally besides the point, because an open post office will not make an area more attractive to live in, gentrification relates to middle-class people moving into central, cheap, residential neighbourhoods due to the low prices and creating a completely different dempgraphic (smaller households and higher disposable incomes) which is followed by businesses catering for those salaries. Th old residents on low income will find it hard to afford the prices and can  can be effectively evicted and moved to cheaper , outskirts areas , bringing in a HB cap will deal with the most undesirable tenants. recent rioting for economic gain is hardly surprising, and an outcome of not teaching politics at school.
> Personally, I don't think it is a surprise the Black Archives building company has collapsed, and the project is delayed, but that's another thread



Fwiw I wouldn't argue that a pub like this isn't to some degree an 'active' gentrifying influence - I know other places that focus on good-quality/unusual beer that still put on a token fosters/kronenberg, seeing as that's what lots of people still like to drink. But the point is that even if it was exactly the same as before but just in a clean and newly decorated form, it would still have a gentrifying effect, as any improvement currently will (and yes, of course having amenities like an open post office increase the amount people will spend to live in an area).

But the point isn't to say that these processes are inevitable and we should just accept that poor people will have to shuffle from one shitty area to another whenever some somewhat less poor people follow them to where the rent is cheap. The point is that there needs to be a system to allow areas to become nicer without that meaning that existing residents can no longe afford to live there.


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## Winot (May 9, 2012)

Pub reviewed in Time Out this week <cue further gentrification outrage>.


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## editor (May 9, 2012)

Winot said:


> Pub reviewed in Time Out this week <cue further gentrification outrage>.


Please tell me they hated it. 

(That said, Time Out's influence is waning by the day)


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## MAD-T-REX (May 9, 2012)

http://www.timeout.com/london/bars/venue/2:31103/crown-anchor

4/5, with a short and bland review. He does wonder why the "nautical reference was relevant so far from the docks"; I'm sure this has nothing to do with the pub's name, but the end of the Grand Surrey Canal was about a mile east in Addington Square until it was filled in during the 50s.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 9, 2012)

Does anyone still read Time Out? It must be 10 years since I bought/nicked a copy.


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## Winot (May 9, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Does anyone still read Time Out? It must be 10 years since I bought/nicked a copy.



Excellent question - you should start a thread.


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## Chilavert (May 10, 2012)

Sitting in the Crown and Anchor having a beer at this very moment.

The bar staff are refreshingly untrendy.

Now I just need to get drunk enough to consider paying £4 for half a lager....

Edited to add some more considered feedback.

Really nice beers on tap, although one of the women serving them wasn't exactly friendly.

A large number of people on plaid shirts, but nobody was sporting trousers turned up to reveal some ankle.

There were chefs in, but they weren't actually doing food.

All in all I liked it and will be returning, having said that, its a lot further to go than the Elm Park Tavern.

Oh and I didn't try a £4 half.


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## Badgers (May 12, 2012)

Went in last night and was a most enjoyable couple of pints. Service was good, cider (£4 a pint) was excellent and the food looked good. Really nice place


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## CH1 (May 14, 2012)

I was taken there last Thursday by a friend whose benefit has not yet been cut off by the government (unlike myself). I thought it was really chic, but we went when the Beehive got nasty after the Academy turned out, and it was relatively quiet. We (in our 50s) were at least 20 years older than anyone else in the place, but the beer was excellent albeit £1 more than the BH minimum.


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## marty21 (May 15, 2012)

I have been reliably informed that full food service will be starting this evening - the food is pretty good - I had a meal at the sister pub in Stoke Newington on Friday - very nice - main meals about a tenner or so I think


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## editor (May 15, 2012)

They've now started food which will be available from these times:

Mon-Fri 5pm-10pm
Sat noon-10pm
Sun noon-8pm


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## Ol Nick (May 15, 2012)

editor said:


> They've now started food which will be available from these times:
> 
> Mon-Fri 5pm-10pm
> Sat noon-10pm
> Sun noon-8pm


They are supposed to be running a pub. They've no business doing food.


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## cybilbrix (May 18, 2012)

Thinking of checking the food out.

Has anyone eaten here yet? What's the food like?


----------



## editor (May 18, 2012)

cybilbrix said:


> Thinking of checking the food out.
> 
> Has anyone eaten here yet? What's the food like?


Someone wrote to me (via BrixtonBuzz) and said that it was very nice indeed.


----------



## editor (May 18, 2012)

Ol Nick said:


> They are supposed to be running a pub. They've no business doing food.


It has to be said that their enthusiasm for food seemed a lot less than it was for ale, but I guess pubs have got to do food to get enough custom in the daytimes.


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## Mrs Magpie (May 18, 2012)

I do like a really good pint with some half-decent food. I'm glad food has got better in pubs. I've never really liked pickled eggs and pickled onions much and that's all there used to be in most pubs (crisps aren't food).


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## Badgers (May 18, 2012)

I met one of the chef's there and had a drink (£3.60 for an excellent ale may I add) with him. He was really passionate about things and making all their own sauces, chutneys and stuff. The menu is premium price (£9. 50 for the 'Brixton' burger) but appears of a decent quality. 

The chef did say that the food is more of an accompaniment to the ales/ciders so they are not doing a big menu, more specials with a few staples. 

Overall I think the staff there are great. Old chap came up to the bar and was a bit lost with the range of options. The young lass behind the bar asked what he liked, made a recommendation, gave a taster, told him about the brewery it came from and he was most pleased with his lot.


----------



## editor (May 18, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Overall I think the staff there are great. Old chap came up to the bar and was a bit lost with the range of options. The young lass behind the bar asked what he liked, made a recommendation, gave a taster, told him about the brewery it came from and he was most pleased with his lot.


I was briefly  there when they were training the staff, and they certainly know their stuff when it comes to ales. Which is how it should be.


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## Chilavert (May 18, 2012)

cybilbrix said:


> Thinking of checking the food out.
> 
> Has anyone eaten here yet? What's the food like?


Someone on the table next to me on Wednesday was having the burger and it looked very nice.


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## cybilbrix (May 18, 2012)

Thanks all may give it a try but a mate said they only give you about 7 chips for £4 and they can't tell you where the meat is from?

Worried about carcasses, Brixton style, (i.e shopping cart and flies) for apparently a tenner burger & £14.50 steak.

Seems Jolly Butchers, sister pub, has a known supplier of quality meat....but no providence for us?


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## Mrs Magpie (May 18, 2012)

cybilbrix said:


> Thanks all may give it a try but a mate said they only give you about 7 chips for £4 and they can't tell you where the meat is from?
> 
> Worried about carcasses, Brixton style, (i.e shopping cart and flies) for apparently a tenner burger & £14.50 steak.
> 
> Seems Jolly Butchers, sister pub, has a known supplier of quality meat....but no providence for us?


Provenance, unless you want to find God in a burger.


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## Badgers (May 18, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:
			
		

> Provenance, unless you want to find God in a burger.



I want that


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## cybilbrix (May 18, 2012)

UHH spelling!!!! long day!

I'm interested does anyone care.....Provenance....or if it tastes ok do you block out the early morning/late evening blood channels and white rusty meat vans of atlantic road?

What would God look like in a burger? I would say more cheese and gherkins.........


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## colacubes (May 18, 2012)

cybilbrix said:


> UHH spelling!!!! long day!
> 
> I'm interested does anyone care.....Provenance....or if it tastes ok do you block out the early morning/late evening blood channels and white rusty meat vans of atlantic road?
> 
> What would God look like in a burger? I would say more cheese and gherkins.........



Tbf they've only started doing this week. The staff probably aren't aware of all those things yet.


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## cybilbrix (May 18, 2012)

and the staff only have to ask the chef?

the chef doesn't know here he gets his produce?

worrying....they are 3 ft away from each other!

Its not a problem I just wondered if anyone thought about the sources of the food....and if it mattered?


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## Badgers (May 18, 2012)

Your mate said? I suggest going and asking. When I worked in pub kitchens if you asked I would have gone and looked. They strike me as a pretty good bet for sourcing decent produce, perhaps go in and ask them? Not worth getting hung up on eh? Certainly not 'worrying' in the grand scheme of things.


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## Orang Utan (May 18, 2012)

cybilbrix said:


> UHH spelling!!!! long day!
> 
> I'm interested does anyone care.....Provenance....or if it tastes ok do you block out the early morning/late evening blood channels and white rusty meat vans of atlantic road?
> 
> What would God look like in a burger? I would say more cheese and gherkins.........


What's wrong with getting meat from Atlantic Road?


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## Mrs Magpie (May 18, 2012)

There are places I wouldn't get meat from on Atlantic Road. Not all have great handling, hygiene or storage.


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## marty21 (May 18, 2012)

cybilbrix said:


> Thinking of checking the food out.
> 
> Has anyone eaten here yet? What's the food like?


I've eaten at a couple of their other pubs - and the food has always been excellent -


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## Ol Nick (May 18, 2012)

editor said:


> It has to be said that their enthusiasm for food seemed a lot less than it was for ale, but I guess pubs have got to do food to get enough custom in the daytimes.


 
OK, was there last night. Lots of great beer. And I had a burger. And it was very good. But that's no excuse.

Went to Cafe Cairo after. It's open again, did you know? [For Stockwell forum?]


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## Badgers (May 19, 2012)

cybilbrix said:
			
		

> Thanks all may give it a try but a mate said they only give you about 7 chips for £4



Four of us ate there for lunch. Not wanting a big meal so we had the German sausage platter and two portions of chips between us. They are BIG chunky and very tasty chips and although I did not count then I would guess about 20 chips per portion. Still a bit painful at £4 a go but the 4 of us were full up.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 21, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> There are places I wouldn't get meat from on Atlantic Road. Not all have great handling, hygiene or storage.


When I see some of the meat handling practices on Atlantic Road and in parts of the market I am very glad I don't eat meat.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 21, 2012)

Ol Nick said:


> Went to Cafe Cairo after. It's open again, did you know? [For Stockwell forum?]


Yeah it's been open for a couple of weeks now - must pop in soon, for old time's sake!


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## kittyP (Jun 1, 2012)

Delicious berry cider in a family of sizes


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## editor (Jun 1, 2012)

I was there on Wednesday and had a really lovely Windsor Knot ale or three. 

Brixtonite: you have been invited back because they want to sort out ChipGate to your satisfaction!


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## gabi (Jun 1, 2012)

I popped in last night for a berry cider. Sierra celebration is still £8 a go and they still ask if you're cool with paying that before they pour it.. They do the same with the cheapest lager mind you, at a fiver. Which is nice of them but if I owned the place I'd prolly reduce the price to market rate rather than instruct my staff to ask punters if they wanted to continue with the transaction. I saw one dude wince and downgrade his round once he heard the price. 

It's a good place tho. Defintilely a good addition to a pretty barren pub scene.


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## editor (Jun 1, 2012)

Here's their menu:


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## editor (Jun 1, 2012)

Cheapest pint was £3.30 which seems very reasonable.


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## Onket (Jun 1, 2012)

Forgot to post on here, but I nipped in for a couple of ales straight from work a couple of weeks ago.

I think it was about £3.60 a pint for approx 5% tasty stuff. One was clearly better than the other but I can't rememebr what was what and they've probably changed them now anyway.

<edit> I think I had that Darkstar 5.7% one actually, and it was nice enough.

Lad I was with tried a couple of the wheat beers, not my kind of thing at all but he loved them.

I will return. Their ciders need trying.

P.s. Eating is cheating.


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## editor (Jun 1, 2012)

I wish I could drag that beer selection down to the Albert's bar tonight.


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## Winot (Jun 1, 2012)

gabi said:


> They do the same with the cheapest lager mind you, at a fiver.



Camden Lager £4/pint from Ed's photo.


----------



## kittyP (Jun 3, 2012)

Onket said:
			
		

> Forgot to post on here, but I nipped in for a couple of ales straight from work a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> I think it was about £3.60 a pint for approx 5% tasty stuff. One was clearly better than the other but I can't rememebr what was what and they've probably changed them now anyway.
> 
> ...



The berry cider is delicious! 
Not sweet. It's sharp like berries are


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## editor (Jun 3, 2012)

Winot said:


> Camden Lager £4/pint from Ed's photo.


I think they  had a £3.80 one too.


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## George & Bill (Jun 6, 2012)

Went there a few weeks back. Beer selection was superb not just in range but precision of curation, I thought. I think the prices are fair for the quality on offer.

Had some fish and chips. The effort was there - no mistaking that the chips were real potatoes, but inside they were rather hard and dry - a long way from the fondancy that should be a good fryer's aim. Mushy peas were underseasoned, but the fish itself was very nice. 

Decor was restrained and unassuming, but this is clearly at present a place of very considerable aesthetic self-awareness. If, alongside the great beer, it could also foster the slight shabbyness and insousience that is the trademark of any truly great boozer, it could be a great boozer. 

The proof of that, or the obstacle to it, will be in the punters the place attracts. This could end up a monoculture of Shoreditch Twats or Clapham Yah-Yahs, or it could become home to all and sundry. If it's one of the former, then no amound of good beer will make it a proper pub.


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## Chilavert (Jun 12, 2012)

Thought I might pop in for a pint after work this evening.


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## marty21 (Jun 12, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Went there a few weeks back. Beer selection was superb not just in range but precision of curation, I thought. I think the prices are fair for the quality on offer.
> 
> Had some fish and chips. The effort was there - no mistaking that the chips were real potatoes, but inside they were rather hard and dry - a long way from the fondancy that should be a good fryer's aim. Mushy peas were underseasoned, but the fish itself was very nice.
> 
> ...


 ime the twats and the yah yahs aren't big on real ale


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## George & Bill (Jun 12, 2012)

marty21 said:


> ime the twats and the yah yahs aren't big on real ale



Traditionally no, although it is moving closer to their narrow field of awareess, I suspect. And the C&A also has plenty of imported stuff that the STs and CYYs would be at home with.


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## Badgers (Oct 10, 2012)

Finally had a roast there on Sunday. It was packed (14:30ish) and a lot of people waiting for tables at the bar but we sat outside as the weather was okay. As usual the service was really good despite it being rammed, and the cider was excellent. They had already run out of chicken and lamb by this time but still had beef, pork and two vegetarian dishes (peppered butternut squash and another I forget now) on offer.

Roast beef for two was £25.00 and washed down with 5 pints meant it was near £45 for Sunday lunch. Pretty rich for our tastes but it was a treat and it is kind of our local so the price was not that upsetting.

(Photo of them below with the beef resting on a bed of mashed root vegetables)
I thought the roast was not quite worth the money, the beef was nice and tender but a little small and _teeny_ bit too fatty I thought. The _three_ roast potatoes were a _little_ dry and the Yorkshires a _little _soggy. The veggies were very nice but the horseradish sauce was very bland and gravy (a jus?) was too thin. Not the best pub Sunday roast I have had by a long way and I could easily have eaten a burger on the way home 

For balance all the other food I have eaten there has always been of very good quality and filling.


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## Dan U (Oct 10, 2012)

i'd do time i swear if someone served me a roast dinner with only 3 roast potatoes on.


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## Badgers (Oct 10, 2012)

Dan U said:
			
		

> i'd do time i swear if someone served me a roast dinner with only 3 roast potatoes on.



 

I think I could have eaten both plates. Shame really as it is the first less than great food I have in there. Not tried the burger yet, odd for me.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 10, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I think I could have eaten both plates. Shame really as it is the first less than great food I have in there. Not tried the burger yet, odd for me.


 
it looks ok, but no more than that as you say. Roast dinners are an art!


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## nagapie (Oct 10, 2012)

Can someone remind me where the best veggie roast dinner is in the Brixton area? It's my birthday next weekend and that's what I feel like eating.


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## gaijingirl (Oct 10, 2012)

nagapie said:


> Can someone remind me where the best veggie roast dinner is in the Brixton area? It's my birthday next weekend and that's what I feel like eating.


 
I like the one at the Cambria because I love nut roast.  They have the nuttiest nut roast short of diving into a bag of peanuts.


----------



## Onket (Oct 10, 2012)

Dan U said:


> it looks ok, but no more than that as you say. Roast dinners are an art!



That meat is too raw for me.


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## Badgers (Oct 10, 2012)

Onket said:
			
		

> That meat is too raw for me.



It was about as raw as I can enjoy. Was a good quality bit of beef and sliced/chewed easily. Would have preferred it slightly better done with thicker gravy.


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## Dan U (Oct 10, 2012)

Onket said:


> That meat is too raw for me.


 
looks fine to me, personal choice though.


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## nagapie (Oct 10, 2012)

gaijingirl said:


> I like the one at the Cambria because I love nut roast. They have the nuttiest nut roast short of diving into a bag of peanuts.


 
Would definitely prefer a nut roast to something like a tart or sausages, which makes the veggie option not feel like a roast at all. Want good roast potatoes, gravy and maybe some yorkshire puddings too.


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## Onket (Oct 10, 2012)

Dan U said:


> looks fine to me, personal choice though.



Is it? Or did it just come like that? Not sure they ask how well done you want your roast.


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## gaijingirl (Oct 10, 2012)

nagapie said:


> Would definitely prefer a nut roast to something like a tart or sausages, which makes the veggie option not feel like a roast at all. Want good roast potatoes, gravy and maybe some yorkshire puddings too.


 
well it is a nut roast, yorkshire pudding, red cabbage, carrots, parsnip, roast potatoes, apple sauce and mustardy onions.  It's very nice.  The one thing I did find was that because there was mustardy onions (which were yummy) and gravy on the same plate (and apple sauce), it did become a bit mustardy floaty.  Next time I might ask for the onions and apple sauce on the side.  I'm pretty fussy with spuds so never likely to find any like my mum's but they were pretty good.


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## nagapie (Oct 10, 2012)

Sounds yum, except for the apple sauce so thanks for the heads up, if I make it there I'll ask for mine to be left off. I hate apples in savory food. Mustardy onions however, yummmm.


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## Dan U (Oct 10, 2012)

Onket said:


> Is it? Or did it just come like that? Not sure they ask how well done you want your roast.


 
a good pub should. not everyone wants the red middle, you should get offered a choice imo.

you couldn't serve that to a pregnant person, for example!


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## gaijingirl (Oct 10, 2012)

yeah.. the apple sauce was a bit redundant really... I gave mine to O.


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## Manter (Oct 10, 2012)

Dan U said:


> a good pub should. not everyone wants the red middle, you should get offered a choice imo.
> 
> you couldn't serve that to a pregnant person, for example!


If it is a roast they can't ask how you want it done.... They just cook the joint.... Not like a burger when they cook for each person....


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## Dan U (Oct 11, 2012)

Manter said:


> If it is a roast they can't ask how you want it done.... They just cook the joint.... Not like a burger when they cook for each person....


 
nah, that is balls. with beef or lamb in a pub you should be offered it from the ends or the middle if at all possible, particularly if it is coming out as rare as that.

there are a lot of people who won't eat beef or lamb as rare as that and would just send it back.


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## Badgers (Oct 11, 2012)

It was red poll beef
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Poll

The rareness of the meat was really a moan. I prefer it a bit better done than that personally but it was still delicious. Just a bit fatty and on the small side.


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## Winot (Oct 11, 2012)

Fat=flavour


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't think I've ever been asked how I want the meat done when getting a roast in a pub. I suppose I'd see it as good service if they did but I definitely wouldn't expect it.


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## gabi (Oct 11, 2012)

nagapie said:


> Can someone remind me where the best veggie roast dinner is in the Brixton area? It's my birthday next weekend and that's what I feel like eating.


 
The White Horse. By a large margin.


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## nagapie (Oct 11, 2012)

gabi said:


> The White Horse. By a large margin.


 
What do you get?


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## gabi (Oct 11, 2012)

Big portions, nice chilled atmosphere on a sunday arvo


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## RaverDrew (Oct 11, 2012)

gabi said:


> nice chilled atmosphere on a sunday arvo


 
unless I'm in there


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## kittyP (Oct 11, 2012)

Dan U said:


> looks fine to me, personal choice though.


 
Yeah it was fine for me but I understand that it would be too underdone for a lot of people. 

It was very tasty and service was great but it just wasn't worth the money. 

Like you Dan, I was not happy about the 3 small pieces of roast tattie but was not in the mood for complaining. 
May send them an email.... 

The ciders were, as ever, absolutely delicious though. 
I had the Fanny's Bramble and it really really did taste exactly of blackberry


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## kittyP (Oct 11, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I don't think I've ever been asked how I want the meat done when getting a roast in a pub. I suppose I'd see it as good service if they did but I definitely wouldn't expect it.


 
No I never have either but I think that is why roast beef is nearly always cooked medium (or destroyed and charred) rather than as rare as we had. 

It did absolutely melt in the mouth though.


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## Onket (Oct 11, 2012)

Cider is supposed to taste of apple.


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## kittyP (Oct 11, 2012)

Onket said:


> Cider is supposed to taste of apple.


 
Not this one


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## Onket (Oct 11, 2012)

It's not cider, then.


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## cuppa tee (Oct 11, 2012)

I havent tried the dinners but the din can be something chronic


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## nagapie (Oct 11, 2012)

gabi said:


> Big portions, nice chilled atmosphere on a sunday arvo


 
Not good enough. Only care about big portions if it's the food I want to eat. In this instance I need the right food more than atmosphere. And I have a toddler, don't remember the WH being the place for a little one.


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## Winot (Oct 11, 2012)

nagapie said:


> Not good enough. Only care about big portions if it's the food I want to eat. In this instance I need the right food more than atmosphere. And I have a toddler, don't remember the WH being the place for a little one.



It's your birthday - ditch the toddler.


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## gabi (Oct 11, 2012)

nagapie said:


> Not good enough. Only care about big portions if it's the food I want to eat. In this instance I need the right food more than atmosphere. And I have a toddler, don't remember the WH being the place for a little one.


 
Ah well, in that case maybe one of the kid-hell places in herne hill, the florence or the prince regent. the white horse is a decent pub and thankfully ive never seen kids in there.


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## nagapie (Oct 12, 2012)

Winot said:


> It's your birthday - ditch the toddler.


 
And give him to who? We have no family in London and our only babysitter is away that weekend.


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## nagapie (Oct 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> Ah well, in that case maybe one of the kid-hell places in herne hill, the florence or the prince regent. the white horse is a decent pub and thankfully ive never seen kids in there.


 
Just cause I'm a parent doesn't mean I like the parent ghetto. Besides the florence and the regent both do shit food. I never liked the White Horse much anyway before I had children. My fondest memory of it was having my friend told by the dj to stop dancing because he was making the records jump even though we were the only people showing some appreciation for his records.


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## Orang Utan (Oct 12, 2012)

nagapie said:


> And give him to who? We have no family in London and our only babysitter is away that weekend.


sorry! i can take him with me to leeds. not sure he'd like that though


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 12, 2012)

nagapie said:


> Just cause I'm a parent doesn't mean I like the parent ghetto. Besides the florence and the regent both do shit food. I never liked the White Horse much anyway before I had children. My fondest memory of it was having my friend told by the dj to stop dancing because he was making the records jump even though we were the only people showing some appreciation for his records.


i bet the chicken dancing was putting off other dancers though


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## nagapie (Oct 12, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> i bet the chicken dancing was putting off other dancers though


 
Nope, there was no one dancing when we arrived despite decent music.


----------



## Winot (Oct 12, 2012)

nagapie said:


> And give him to who? We have no family in London and our only babysitter is away that weekend.


 
I wasn't being entirely serious.  I understand the difficulty, having two myself.


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## cuppa tee (Oct 16, 2012)

I see a notice in the window saying the pub is applying for a license to put tables and chairs on the public highway, as they already have the benches down the side I wonder if this means Brixton Road, or more likely that the pedestrianisation of the approach to Slade Gardens is imminent.........


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## Crispy (Oct 16, 2012)

I heard that the bloke over the road who was previously holding up the pedestrianisation so he could redevelop his garage has now relented, so that could well be what we're seeing. Tables in the road anyway. Actually repaving the road will be a long time coming imo.


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## cuppa tee (Oct 16, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I heard that the bloke over the road who was previously holding up the pedestrianisation so he could redevelop his garage has now relented, so that could well be what we're seeing. Tables in the road anyway. Actually repaving the road will be a long time coming imo.


 
 I imagine one without the other would mean a lot of spillage, maybe they'll have a ramp so people dont trip over the kerbstone


----------



## Onket (Oct 16, 2012)

Winot said:


> I wasn't being entirely serious. I understand the difficulty, having two myself.


 
Two babysitters? Now there's an idea..........


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 16, 2012)

cuppa tee said:


> I see a notice in the window saying the pub is applying for a license to put tables and chairs on the public highway, as they already have the benches down the side I wonder if this means Brixton Road, or more likely that the pedestrianisation of the approach to Slade Gardens is imminent.........





Crispy said:


> I heard that the bloke over the road who was previously holding up the pedestrianisation so he could redevelop his garage has now relented, so that could well be what we're seeing. Tables in the road anyway. Actually repaving the road will be a long time coming imo.


What Crispy said is correct - the landlord told me that. Pedestrianising the actual road, even though it's only small, is a fairly substantial job and may take a while. Would be nice if it's done before next summer! Either way, it has been great having that gate open to allow through access to Slade Gardens, after it was welded shut for several years.

I guess they have to hope that the people who park their cars in that bit of road (people who live there and use the shops/takeaway) won't object. I'm not sure they would pedestrianise the whole 20-30 yards of road because large lorries till need to get in there to deliver beer to the cellar and stuff to the shops next door. Perhaps they will leave a small stub of road?


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## Badgers (Aug 2, 2014)

No progress on this it seems.


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## cuppa tee (Aug 2, 2014)

Badgers said:


> No progress on this it seems.


I heard it was going to happen as part of the neighbourhood enhancement scheme but it was gonna cost too much so outside cash was needed maybe when _hot wok_s rent goes up and _yo sush_i move in


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2015)

Anyone going? Alabama 3 are playing!
Tonight: Brixton’s Crown & Anchor pub celebrates its third birthday


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Apr 20, 2015)

Quite tempted. Nice weather for a pint.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 20, 2015)

Used to live a couple of doors down from there, moved out in 2011 when it was still a decaying old man's sorrow drowner. 

*Feels an warranted wave of nostalgia*


----------



## aussw9 (Apr 20, 2015)

editor said:


> Anyone going? Alabama 3 are playing!
> Tonight: Brixton’s Crown & Anchor pub celebrates its third birthday



Yep... Sunny afternoon followed out on the pavement followed by the Alabama 3. Plus theyve got Founders All Day IPA on tap tonight!


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 12, 2018)

The crown and anchor is somewhere I will use out of desperation rather than through choice
teatime today is one such occasion but I am disappointed to find said establishment will no longer accept cash in exchange for drinks, card only, according to sign in door "this the digital age"...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 12, 2018)

Card ONLY? That's ridiculous


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Card ONLY? That's ridiculous


Punishes the poor too.


----------



## alcopop (Oct 12, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Card ONLY? That's ridiculous


Makes sense though


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Makes sense though


Makes sense for who, exactly?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Makes sense though


Sure, for them. Saves on the hassle of handling cash. Sucks for anyone with only cash io them


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 12, 2018)

Sadly, it acts as an effective security measure and deterrent against burglaries and break-ins. No float to nick.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Punishes the poor too.



Yup....and brazen with it.......

 [


----------



## alex_ (Oct 12, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Sadly, it acts as an effective security measure and deterrent against burglaries and break-ins. No float to nick.



Means you don’t need a senior member of staff to cash up, it’s win win for the owners


----------



## T & P (Oct 12, 2018)

It will be inconvenient for some, but it does have its advantages. Apart from the security angle, it’s usually faster to pay with contactless and anything that reduces waiting times is a good thing.

The poor will have been far more inconvenienced by more important services than a pub going cashless-the buses, for instance. I’ve always found it outrageous there is no cash option anymore- but that’s perhaps a discussion for the transport forum.


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## Winot (Oct 12, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Yup....and brazen with it.......
> 
> View attachment 149512 [



Brazen as in... telling people about it?


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 12, 2018)

Winot said:


> Brazen as in... telling people about it?





> #thefuture



......trying to resonate with contactless tech savvy yuppies, and if you don't like it drink elsewhere.


----------



## T & P (Oct 12, 2018)

I’m pretty sure you don’t have to be tech savvy or a yuppie to either understand what contactless is, or have access to such technology, which has been a standard feature of most debit cards for a while. In fact it seems a bit absurd if not bordering on the patronising tbh. And even if a card does not have it the customer can still pay with it of course.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> I’m pretty sure you don’t have to be tech savvy or a yuppie to either understand what contactless is, or have access to such technology, which has been a standard feature of most debit cards for a while. In fact it seems a bit absurd if not bordering on the patronising tbh. And even if a card does not have it the customer can still pay with it of course.


Think you are deliberately missing the point, granted nuff people of all backgrounds will use contactless....but "#thefuture" will resonate deeply with someone who feels the need to read a trendy bars Twitter feed.


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## T & P (Oct 12, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Think you are deliberately missing the point, granted nuff people of all backgrounds will use contactless....but "#thefuture" will resonate deeply with someone who feels the need to read a trendy bars Twitter feed.


Hashtags and social media accounts are extremely common across all kinds pubs and venues, including many that no-one here or elsewhere would describe as catering for the well off or trying to drive off the well less-off.

If a place like The Beehive or The Dog Star or Hootanani writes about an upcoming gig or promotion on a blackboard, or a poster in the toilets, and include a hashtag or simply asks the reader to check their website for further details, is that any different? The great many people who can't afford a smartphone will surely feel as unwanted/ redundant as those in your scenario.

Hell, Wetherspoons now have an app that allows you to order drinks and food from your table and have them delivered to you. I suspect Spoons customers who can't afford a smartphone will feel far more unwanted and Being treated as second class by their local when they see other patrons avoid queues at the bar and have their pint delivered to them while they have to do it the old fashioned way, than any poor patrons of the C&A would feel at the sight of that hashtag. So in your view it'd be fair to say Wetherspoons are discriminating against the poor or trying to change their client demographic?


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## CH1 (Oct 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> Hell, Wetherspoons now have an app that allows you to order drinks and food from your table and have them delivered to you. I suspect Spoons customers who can't afford a smartphone will feel far more unwanted and Being treated as second class by their local when they see other patrons avoid queues at the bar and have their pint delivered to them while they have to do it the old fashioned way, than any poor patrons of the C&A would feel at the sight of that hashtag. So in your view it'd be fair to say Wetherspoons are discriminating against the poor or trying to change their client demographic?


I suppose this is true. If you drift into the Beehive on Friday or Saturday night after about  9 pm you wouldn't get seat at a table anyway - so how does online ordering help? (unless you are one of those people who like to get your seat early and stay all night)


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## editor (Oct 13, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Sadly, it acts as an effective security measure and deterrent against burglaries and break-ins. No float to nick.


Yet so many bars and businesses have managed to flourish _without_ forcing their customers into using a payment which just suits them.


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## editor (Oct 13, 2018)

T & P said:


> It will be inconvenient for some,


So why aren't you rallying to support the disenfranchised 'some' who will inconvenienced and excluded by this move?

Surely they matter more than the privileged majority?


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## Ms T (Oct 14, 2018)

I often feel that bar and restaurant staff are somewhat surprised these days when you proffer cash. They’ve normally already got the card machine out.


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## alcopop (Oct 14, 2018)

editor said:


> So why aren't you rallying to support the disenfranchised 'some' who will inconvenienced and excluded by this move?
> 
> Surely they matter more than the privileged majority?


Surely everyone is equal?


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## Mr Retro (Oct 14, 2018)

I’m in Stockholm a lot and you see these signs everywhere, in bars shops and museums. In places that do accept cash it’s hardly used anyway. I don’t ever carry krona. 

I think it works better there because infrastructure for it is better. Tech like iZettle and another app (whose name I forget) that allows you to swap money with somebody else with the app are widely adopted. There is no minimum spend bollox. 

There is a bit of a backlash going on at the moment. It’s mainly driven because it effects the elderly but it’s too late now, Sweden will be cashless in the next 10 years I expect. 

I don’t see it happening here as soon as that but it’s definitely coming.


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## Gramsci (Oct 14, 2018)

I like using cash. Its anonymous. Leaves no trail of data. It should be an option for people. I use an Oyster card for public transport but I've never registered it. So its like using cash.


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## editor (Oct 14, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Surely everyone is equal?


Except those who haven't got a credit/debit card, of course. They get excluded and turned away from places.


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2018)

Ms T said:


> I often feel that bar and restaurant staff are somewhat surprised these days when you proffer cash. They’ve normally already got the card machine out.


I think that very much depends on what type of bar and restaurant you're at.


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## alcopop (Oct 14, 2018)

editor said:


> Except those who haven't got a credit/debit card, of course. They get excluded and turned away from places.


In which case they should get a debit card. Problem solved!


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## Mr Retro (Oct 14, 2018)

Some interesting stats here: Financial Health Exchange

Wrong thread for this discussion I guess but it’s an interesting one.


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Some interesting stats here: Financial Health Exchange
> 
> Wrong thread for this discussion I guess but it’s an interesting one.


Well it underlines the fact that any establishment refusing to accept cash is excluding the poorest members of the community. 



> 94% of people without a bank account have a personal income of below £17,500 per annum, and 91% live in households where the total income is £17,500 per annum.


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## Gramsci (Oct 14, 2018)

editor said:


> Well it underlines the fact that any establishment refusing to accept cash is excluding the poorest members of the community.



Take Loughborough Junction. I use the local paypoint for bills and to top up my gas. Like most people I see in the shop its all cash payments.


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## Gramsci (Oct 14, 2018)

One of the arguments behind cashless society is that it will reduce crime. This is nonsense.

Take this:



> One of the main aims of PSD2 is to better protect customers against fraud. Under the directive (which was implemented in the UK in January 2018), from September 2019, an account holder will need to show two out of the three elements of possession (e.g. holding a payment card), knowledge (e.g. a password or PIN) and being to verify his or her identity when accessing an account and making payments (i.e. he or she will have to pass a biometric test).



Fraud fears rise as cashless society nears

The cashless society will need to bring in further erosions to privacy. Next biometric tests as standard.

Who really benefits from cashless society? Not the consumer. I thought the idea of capitalism was that consumer was king and everyone had choices about how and when they spent money. Not so with cashless society. Banks, big data, government are the winners.


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## Ms T (Oct 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Take Loughborough Junction. I use the local paypoint for bills and to top up my gas. Like most people I see in the shop its all cash payments.


Most people do have a bank account though.


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## alcopop (Oct 14, 2018)

Ms T said:


> Most people do have a bank account though.


About 95%


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## Mr Retro (Oct 15, 2018)

alcopop said:


> About 95%


Apparently about 1.5m people in the UK have no bank account. I wonder how many of those don’t have one because they can’t get one? 

As we become more cashless those without a debit card because they can’t get one can’t be left out. The infrastructure needs to be put in place to allow those without a debit card to use cashless shops etc. if they want to.


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## aka (Oct 15, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Take Loughborough Junction. I use the local paypoint for bills and to top up my gas. Like most people I see in the shop its all cash payments.


Paypoint is cash based as 1) they charge a huge amount on card to the retail outlet v cash and/or 2) someone worked out they can game it. I am asked for cash every time. To recap:  the shops are driving it, not the punters.


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## aka (Oct 15, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Apparently about 1.5m people in the UK have no bank account. I wonder how many of those don’t have one because they can’t get one?
> 
> As we become more cashless those without a debit card because they can’t get one can’t be left out. The infrastructure needs to be put in place to allow those without a debit card to use cashless shops etc. if they want to.


I agree. If you can’t get one you should not be left out. So; preload cards, oyster+, cash2card


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## Mr Retro (Oct 15, 2018)

aka said:


> Paypoint is cash based as 1) they charge a huge amount on card to the retail outlet v cash and/or 2) someone worked out they can game it. I am asked for cash every time. To recap:  the shops are driving it, not the punters.


Retailers hate Paypoint. Expensive for them and slow.


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## TruXta (Oct 15, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> I’m in Stockholm a lot and you see these signs everywhere, in bars shops and museums. In places that do accept cash it’s hardly used anyway. I don’t ever carry krona.
> 
> I think it works better there because infrastructure for it is better. Tech like iZettle and another app (whose name I forget) that allows you to swap money with somebody else with the app are widely adopted. There is no minimum spend bollox.
> 
> ...


It's no just about the elderly, it's also that they're scared shitless that if they go properly cashless that they'll be vulnerable to Russian hacking. An electronic payment dominated society is simply less resilient than one that still uses cash.


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## alex_ (Oct 15, 2018)

TruXta said:


> It's no just about the elderly, it's also that they're scared shitless that if they go properly cashless that they'll be vulnerable to Russian hacking. An electronic payment dominated society is simply less resilient than one that still uses cash.



And the beneficiaries from this transition are not the consumer.

Alex


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## TruXta (Oct 15, 2018)

alex_ said:


> And the beneficiaries from this transition are not the consumer.
> 
> Alex


Not most consumers for sure.


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## Mr Retro (Oct 15, 2018)

TruXta said:


> It's no just about the elderly, it's also that they're scared shitless that if they go properly cashless that they'll be vulnerable to Russian hacking. An electronic payment dominated society is simply less resilient than one that still uses cash.


Yes agree. But the talk is around mitigation of risks for when they do go cashless. Moving back towards increased cash use isn’t going to happen.


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## alcopop (Oct 15, 2018)

alcopop said:


> About 95%


I read today it is 98%


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## alcopop (Oct 15, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Apparently about 1.5m people in the UK have no bank account. I wonder how many of those don’t have one because they can’t get one?
> 
> As we become more cashless those without a debit card because they can’t get one can’t be left out. The infrastructure needs to be put in place to allow those without a debit card to use cashless shops etc. if they want to.


Can you still get pay as you go Mastercards? They used to be all over the shops.


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## marty21 (Oct 15, 2018)

It's a risky move to go cashless - they might rethink this if takings are reduced. I have noticed less cash being used in pubs but it must still be a significant figure.


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## alcopop (Oct 15, 2018)

marty21 said:


> It's a risky move to go cashless - they might rethink this if takings are reduced. I have noticed less cash being used in pubs but it must still be a significant figure.


I think generally people spend more when using cards

Credit Cards Make You Spend More: Studies - NerdWallet


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

alcopop said:


> I read today it is 98%


Where did you read that? And how do you feel about businesses refusing to serve people unless they have credit/debit cards, knowing that it often the poorest in society who are without bank accounts?

Alex Kong: ‘There are 1.6 million unbanked working adults in the UK’


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## TruXta (Oct 15, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Yes agree. But the talk is around mitigation of risks for when they do go cashless. Moving back towards increased cash use isn’t going to happen.


Not sure about that.


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## SpamMisery (Oct 15, 2018)

I'm amazed people can be entirely cash-based these days (not even using credit union etc)


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## lefteri (Oct 15, 2018)

When I was on benefits I used to try and use cash for most things.  When you are on means tested benefits you are asked for bank statements every now and again and these are copied and filed - I think it is a gross invasion of privacy for state institutions and their staff to see everything I spend my money on.  And the first person to say the words 'nothing to hide' gets a slap


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

lefteri said:


> When I was on benefits I used to try and use cash for most things.  When you are on means tested benefits you are asked for bank statements every now and again and these are copied and filed - I think it is a gross invasion of privacy for state institutions and their staff to see everything I spend my money on.  And the first person to say the words 'nothing to hide' gets a slap


Indeed. If you're using credit cards/contactless  then all your purchases are recorded and mapped.


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## DietCokeGirl (Oct 15, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> I'm amazed people can be entirely cash-based these days (not even using credit union etc)


Many people have a basic post office account, with a basic card you can use to withdraw your cash but not for payments in store or online/by phone.


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## SpamMisery (Oct 15, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Many people have a basic post office account, with a basic card you can use to withdraw your cash but not for payments in store or online/by phone.



Yeah I know, but according to retro's link, of those that don't have a bank account....



> 73% primarily use another financial product, such as a Post Office Current Account or credit union, while 27% are cash-only.



It's the 27% that amaze me


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## Gramsci (Oct 16, 2018)

lefteri said:


> When I was on benefits I used to try and use cash for most things.  When you are on means tested benefits you are asked for bank statements every now and again and these are copied and filed - I think it is a gross invasion of privacy for state institutions and their staff to see everything I spend my money on.  And the first person to say the words 'nothing to hide' gets a slap



Quite. Some of us who are at times economically challenged aren't keen on having what we spend our money on recorded.

Also my debit card has fifty pounds limit on it for one transaction. For large items I pay cash. Like I did recently for my fridge. I don't see how cashless society is going to work for less well off.


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## Gramsci (Oct 16, 2018)

I thought free market capitalism was supported because its about freedom of choice unlike evil socialism. 

Can someone explain to me why coercing people into cashless society is compatible with free market capitalism.


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## Gramsci (Oct 16, 2018)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Many people have a basic post office account, with a basic card you can use to withdraw your cash but not for payments in store or online/by phone.



Good point. Like I said above cashless society is going to cause people headaches.

I pay my Council tax ,rent and bills in cash at a paypoint. And I don't think that makes me that unusual. I avoid direct debits.


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## Gramsci (Oct 16, 2018)

aka said:


> Paypoint is cash based as 1) they charge a huge amount on card to the retail outlet v cash and/or 2) someone worked out they can game it. I am asked for cash every time. To recap:  the shops are driving it, not the punters.



Take your point if you mean big business fleeces the little shopkeeper.

Same with paying with card in small shop. I know a few who won't accept card below a certain amount.

Another thing about cashless society is that the big boys in financial sector realise they can cream off money with spurious transaction charges on using a card. Which the ordinary people pay. Its not fault of small shopkeeper.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

I was in a shop a while ago and they demanded a hefty surcharge for using my card when I wanted to to buy some  low value items.


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## Gramsci (Oct 16, 2018)

One of the best recent examples of the success of cashless society is bailing out the banks. Quantitative easing was handing the people who caused the crisis free money. It didn't seem like that as it was all done electronically.

The sight of wheelbarrows of money trundling down the City to save the bankers might have driven it home to people that they were being screwed.

So cashless society is great idea.


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## lefteri (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> I was in a shop a while ago and they demanded a hefty surcharge for using my card when I wanted to to buy some  low value items.


I thought this had been outlawed as almost all shops have stopped doing it


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## TruXta (Oct 16, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I thought free market capitalism was supported because its about freedom of choice unlike evil socialism.
> 
> Can someone explain to me why coercing people into cashless society is compatible with free market capitalism.


What led you to believe that the capitalism we live is free marketeer? One does not presume the other.


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## alcopop (Oct 16, 2018)

lefteri said:


> I thought this had been outlawed as almost all shops have stopped doing it


Yeah you are not allowed to do that 


Credit and debit card charges banned from Saturday - what you need to know


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

lefteri said:


> I thought this had been outlawed as almost all shops have stopped doing it


That's good to know. It was around Christmas, so just before the rip off charges were rightfully banned.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 16, 2018)

TBH the price of a pint in there will have already excluded the poor way more effectively than a cards only policy will. You can see it having more impact when this sort of thing spreads elsewhere though so I think it's fair to be concerned. 

Funny how this pub was largely seen as non-gentrifying when it opened.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> TBH the price of a pint in there will have already excluded the poor way more effectively than a cards only policy will. You can see it having more impact when this sort of thing spreads elsewhere though so I think it's fair to be concerned.
> 
> Funny how this pub was largely seen as non-gentrifying when it opened.


They seemed to change tack fairly rapidly after opening. Don't they have DJs there now too?


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## cuppa tee (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> They seemed to change tack fairly rapidly after opening. Don't they have DJs there now too?


It's always been a bit exclusive but a big change happened when the side street was pedestrianised, and the the same owners opened the trendy Indian on the opposite corner, (I also have it on good authority they built the _moderne _house by the park entrance). In effect this changed the street into a private beer garden. The pub is a magnet for people with plenty of disposable in an area that still has social problems, the outside seating is a place where some people will sometimes come asking for loose change. Now if I am able I give change to such people, or if not at least try to treat them as human beings rather than inconveniences or worse. When the pub is cashless I reckon the flow of loose change will dry up and those people will decide to go elsewhere thereby solving another "problem" that may have caused the monied some distress....I reckon if it was legal to gate it they would...


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## sw16er (Oct 24, 2018)

editor said:


> Where did you read that? And how do you feel about businesses refusing to serve people unless they have credit/debit cards, knowing that it often the poorest in society who are without bank accounts?
> 
> Alex Kong: ‘There are 1.6 million unbanked working adults in the UK’



Totally agree, this pub that has decided to introduce this "Card" only policy is located in the Vassall Ward. 

IIRC, the  Vassall Ward is one of the most deprived wards in Lambeth. I use to rent a flat on the Cowley Estate off the Council many years ago. It's a 5 minute walk from this pub. The area was really deprived back then. I have been back to the area recently a few times to visit friends, although the area has changed a bit...it still has that deprived feel. I can't understand how a pub in this area or any area in Lambeth can introduce such as "Policy" like this.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 2, 2018)

went in here last night (not my idea), surly staff who gave off the distinct impression of being mightily inconvenienced at selling you an expensive pint. One of them kept following me to the toilet, presumably took one look at me and decided i was a coke head. Out of all the pubs in the area, this is probably my least favourite.


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## CH1 (Nov 21, 2018)

Sadly learned that Dave, the landlord of the Crown and Anchor in its pre-gentrification Conway Taverns iteration has died recently of cancer.
Dave was a fixture as a Beehive customer over the last ten years or so, though also liked to go to quiz nights at the Effra Social.
He was not what you'd expect from a white person who  left school at 15 and went into the army - he was politically fairly neutral and seemed to have more black friends than white. A true Brixtonian really.


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## marty21 (Dec 7, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> The crown and anchor is somewhere I will use out of desperation rather than through choice
> teatime today is one such occasion but I am disappointed to find said establishment will no longer accept cash in exchange for drinks, card only, according to sign in door "this the digital age"...


I think the owner has gone cashless in all of his pubs - I went to the Jolly Butchers in Stoke Newington last week, they are also now cashless. I think he has 5 pubs in his pub empire - (he also has Rose and Crown , Stoke Newington; Wrestler's Arms, Highgate; and The Brownswood Tavern nr Finsbury Park.


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## cuppa tee (Dec 7, 2018)

marty21 said:


> I think the owner has gone cashless in all of his pubs - I went to the Jolly Butchers in Stoke Newington last week, they are also now cashless. I think he has 5 pubs in his pub empire - (he also has Rose and Crown , Stoke Newington; Wrestler's Arms, Highgate; and The Brownswood Tavern nr Finsbury Park.


I went past last might and the A4 printed notice has been replaced with "card only" in a swirly gold festive font.


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 7, 2018)

The end is nigh


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## Guineveretoo (Dec 7, 2018)

I went to this pub for the first time (that I can remember, anyway) on Sunday for lunch, having seen it getting a mention in an article about vegetarian Sunday roasts.

It was very busy and noisy, and we were lucky to get a seat at all.

I thought the food was great - two choices for vegetarians, both of which could be vegan. Basic, hearty roast dinner. Not fancy or gastropub-like.  I really liked it.

Because there was table service, we left a tip. In cash. No idea how they coped with that.


----------



## editor (Dec 7, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> I went past last might and the A4 printed notice has been replaced with "card only" in a swirly gold festive font.


That's like saying, "Fuck off" in a jaunty, happy tone.


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## T & P (Dec 11, 2018)

Wow.... it's made the BBC website

The bar where your cash is worthless


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## editor (Dec 11, 2018)

T & P said:


> Wow.... it's made the BBC website
> The bar where your cash is worthless


There's a man who puts the community first.


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## CH1 (Dec 11, 2018)

editor said:


> There's a man who puts the community first.


Nice to see they were beaten by The Freston Boot near Ipswich though (further down the page)


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## SpamMisery (Dec 11, 2018)

Hadn't realised it was such a growing trend globally, nor that C&A's decision was, in part, driven by being burgled so often


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## cuppa tee (Dec 11, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> .......nor that C&A's decision was, in part, driven by being burgled so often



Gotta say that surprised me too as I pass by on an almost daily basis and I have never seen any sign of forced entry or any attempts to beef up security.

E2a.....just had a look at the crime map for ingleton street and the area does appear to be a bit of a hotspot for crimes, including burglary, but also a scary amount of violence and sexual assault.


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## alex_ (Dec 11, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Gotta say that surprised me too as I pass by on an almost daily basis and I have never seen any sign of forced entry or any attempts to beef up security.
> 
> E2a.....just had a look at the crime map for ingleton street and it does appear to be a bit of a hotspot for crimes, including burglary.



Which is odd because it’s only about 5 meters long, is the address of the park ingleton street ?


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## cuppa tee (Dec 11, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Which is odd because it’s only about 5 meters long, is the address of the park ingleton street ?


I am guessing it's for the area in general


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## editor (Dec 11, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Gotta say that surprised me too as I pass by on an almost daily basis and I have never seen any sign of forced entry or any attempts to beef up security.


It's a piss weak excuse. Making it card only just makes his job shitloads easier.  

Loads of pubs have proper safes for keeping their money safe at night (which according to him wasn't that much anyway). Besides, burglars are far more likely to try and steal stock, DJ gear, TVs etc.


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## alex_ (Dec 11, 2018)

editor said:


> It's a piss weak excuse. Making it card only just makes his job shitloads easier.



What a bastard.


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## Guineveretoo (Dec 11, 2018)

There is a new pop up craft beer place in South Norwood which is lovely. It was opened in a derelict shop.

Within weeks it had been broken into - the shop windows were smashed.

Now, they are card only. And I neither blame them, and neither did it bother me when it happened (it was a few weeks ago).

Although that is partly because it is a new popup bar, without any locals or anything, and most of the people who go there are Young, and likely to have cards....

Anyway, as you were 


ETA - here it is, if anyone is interested. Craft Beer Cabin, South Norwood


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## editor (Dec 11, 2018)

Guineveretoo said:


> There is a new pop up craft beer place in South Norwood which is lovely. It was opened in a derelict shop.
> 
> Within weeks it had been broken into - the shop windows were smashed.
> 
> ...


Somewhat different to a long established traditional pub though.


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## editor (Dec 11, 2018)

alex_ said:


> What a bastard.


Yeah - fuck those locals without credit cards who had supported the business. They can fucking do one now, the wankers.

Those useless twats should know that we're living in the digital age - so fuck 'em - and no one's ever going to break into a pub full of booze and expensive gear now that there's no cash about. And that's a Tobyjug fact.


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## Thimble Queen (Dec 11, 2018)

Cashless pubs are a stupid idea. How am I supposed to buy a pint two days before payday when all I've got left is the change behind the sofa?

I went to the opticians recently and it was cashless there too. They looked at me like a creature, an old one at that, from another planet when I pulled the crumpled notes from my purse


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## Guineveretoo (Dec 11, 2018)

editor said:


> Somewhat different to a long established tradition pub though.


I know - that is why I made the point about not having any locals. 

But I thought it was relevant because there were suggestions that it had happened at the Crown and Anchor as a result of break ins, which is why it happened at the Craft Beer Cabin.


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## Mr Retro (Dec 11, 2018)

Retail is going cashless and will do so at an ever increasing rate. For me the discussion isn’t about individual businesses doing so, they will move for their own reasons. The issue it is what will be done to help the many who could be left behind in the move.


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## editor (Dec 11, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Retail is going cashless and will do so at an ever increasing rate. For me the discussion isn’t about individual businesses doing so, they will move for their own reasons. The issue it is what will be done to help the many who could be left behind in the move.


So what's your suggestion in the context of this particular thread and the customers who have now been excluded?


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## alex_ (Dec 11, 2018)

editor said:


> Yeah - fuck those locals without credit cards who had supported the business. They can fucking do one now, the wankers.
> 
> Those useless twats should know that we're living in the digital age - so fuck 'em - and no one's ever going to break into a pub full of booze and expensive gear now that there's no cash about. And that's a Tobyjug fact.



Good point only I didn’t say any of those things, and your point that it’s unreasonable to do something because it is “shitloads easier” is comical.

Most people frequently do things because they are “shitloads easier”

Alex


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## Mr Retro (Dec 11, 2018)

editor said:


> So what's your suggestion in the context of this particular thread and the customers who have now been excluded?


Not sure what those who have been excluded from this particular pub at this particular time can do to be honest. What’s your suggestion?


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## alcopop (Dec 11, 2018)

Cashless is easier for virtually everyone


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## editor (Dec 11, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Not sure what those who have been excluded from this particular pub at this particular time can do to be honest. What’s your suggestion?


I have no suggestion because there's very little they can do. They've been given a big 'fuck off' by the landlord so if it was me, I'd go somewhere else.


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## TruXta (Dec 11, 2018)

Would've thought most of the people most likely to be excluded would have stopped going long ago due to the prices they charge.


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## editor (Dec 11, 2018)

TruXta said:


> Would've thought most of the people most likely to be excluded would have stopped going long ago due to the prices they charge.


It's like a double whammy to keep out the poorest locals: hike the prices up and even if they can still just about afford it, then make it impossible for them to pay - and if the selfish attitudes shown by the yup/Tory posters here are anything to go by, there'll be no one standing up for them either.


----------



## Cold Harbour (Dec 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Cashless is easier for virtually everyone


I operate a cash-based economy day to day, use my bank account for salary and direct debits and take a weekly cash 'allowance' out. If I run out of cash I go home, I don't get paid enough to be in debt. I'm far from the only person I know who still pays with cash in supermarkets, pubs etc. I'm a middle aged professional with a PhD, and skint.


----------



## alcopop (Dec 12, 2018)

Cold Harbour said:


> I operate a cash-based economy day to day, use my bank account for salary and direct debits and take a weekly cash 'allowance' out. If I run out of cash I go home, I don't get paid enough to be in debt. I'm far from the only person I know who still pays with cash in supermarkets, pubs etc. I'm a middle aged professional with a PhD, and skint.


If that works for you then great.


----------



## CH1 (Dec 12, 2018)

Guineveretoo said:


> I thought it was relevant because there were suggestions that it had happened at the Crown and Anchor as a result of break ins, which is why it happened at the Craft Beer Cabin.


I was sacked from the Hope and Anchor in Acre Lane in (1979) because there was an alleged £5 deficiency on the till - and the landlord proposed "fining" each bar steward £1.67 (ie 1/3 of the loss), which I would not accept.

I know we are dealing with "old money" here - I suppose the 2018 equivalent would be a £20 deficiency (at least).

The point I want to make is that rather than break-ins the use of card only would certainly make theft by a member of staff much harder, and also eliminate change-giving mistakes.


----------



## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

Cold Harbour said:


> I operate a cash-based economy day to day, use my bank account for salary and direct debits and take a weekly cash 'allowance' out. If I run out of cash I go home, I don't get paid enough to be in debt. I'm far from the only person I know who still pays with cash in supermarkets, pubs etc. I'm a middle aged professional with a PhD, and skint.


 You could still open a saving accounts with no overdraft facilty, which comes with a Contactless and Chip & Pin-enabled debit card, so you can go cashless at a certain retailer if needed and control your spending just as easily.

It makes sense to get one anyway, as contactless and cashless transactions are going to stay, and eventually replace cash in more and more industries and retailers each passing year. You can't even pay with cash to catch a bus in London anymore ffs- something far more serious and excluding to the poorest people in our society than a pub going cashless, incidentally.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> You can't even pay with cash to catch a bus in London anymore ffs- something far more serious and excluding to the poorest people in our society than a pub going cashless, incidentally.


It's a pain but you can just buy an Oyster Card which is easily topped up. Quite different to having to go through the rigmarole of handing over your details to set up a bank account to see if you'll be accepted and then getting a card delivered.

What do you think about pubs excluding customers who only have cash?


----------



## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> It's a pain but you can just buy an Oyster Card which is easily topped up. Quite different to having to go through the rigmarole of handing over your details to set up a bank account to see if you'll be accepted and then getting a card delivered.
> 
> What do you think about pubs excluding customers who only have cash?


Opening up a savings bank account is minimal hassle, and it provides you with a Contantless debit card for life. Really not a big deal whatsoever, and far less hassle than a lifetime of queuing up at convenience stores or Tube ticket machines to top up an Oyster card with cash.

As to the customers being excluded from cashless pubs, since it doesn't cost anything to open a savings account, nobody needs to be excluded.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> As to the customers being excluded from cashless pubs, since it doesn't cost anything to open a savings account, nobody needs to be excluded.


Typical Tory/nu-Labour reply: do what the boss says and jump through the hoops he demands just to get a bloody pint or - quite literally -


----------



## Mr Retro (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> You could still open a saving accounts with no overdraft facilty, which comes with a Contactless and Chip & Pin-enabled debit card, so you can go cashless at a certain retailer if needed and control your spending just as easily.


Do you know if banks are obliged to provide this service or can they refuse if they want to? I can’t seem to find good information on that online. 

What if you’ve fucked about in the past and have an awful credit history and then went bankrupt and then kicked Mark Carney in the bawlz? Are banks still compelled to provide a very basic chip and pin service to anybody who wants one?


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Do you know if banks are obliged to provide this service or can they refuse if they want to? I can’t seem to find good information on that online.
> 
> What if you’ve fucked about in the past and have an awful credit history and then went bankrupt and then kicked Mark Carney in the bawlz? Are banks still compelled to provide a very basic chip and pin service to anybody who wants one?


They can refuse you and don't even have to give a reason.



> A bank or building society can refuse to open an account for you. They don't have to give you a reason, and there's usually nothing you can do about it


Getting a bank account

And not everyone can easily provide the information required. Just to get a fucking pint because the rich boss likes to make things easy for himself. 


> You will also have to provide proof of your identity including your full name, date of birth and address. You usually have to show the bank two separate documents that prove who you are, for example, your passport, and where you live, for example, a recent bill. If you don't have any of the documents that the bank wants, they should accept a letter from a responsible person who knows you, such as a GP, teacher, social worker or probation officer.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Dec 12, 2018)

It is surprisingly difficult to open a bank account these days, although it is now a requirement for the payment of benefits in most circumstances as well, which is why the majority of adults in this country do now have bank accounts.

I say "surprisingly" because, since it is a requirement in so many circumstances, and since it used to be really easy to open as many bank accounts as you wanted, and since opening a bank account does not give you access to overdrafts or loans, it seems odd that it is now so much more complicated than it used to be.  (ETA - I guess it may be to do with money laundering). 

Having said that, though, I don't think many people will be excluded from the Crown and Anchor because of the "card only" requirement, for the reasons given above.

There will be one or two people I know who will struggle because they have refused the contactless card, though.


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## alcopop (Dec 12, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Do you know if banks are obliged to provide this service or can they refuse if they want to? I can’t seem to find good information on that online.
> 
> What if you’ve fucked about in the past and have an awful credit history and then went bankrupt and then kicked Mark Carney in the bawlz? Are banks still compelled to provide a very basic chip and pin service to anybody who wants one?



Surprisingly easy

Basic Bank Accounts


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## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Typical Tory/nu-Labour reply: do what the boss says and jump through the hoops he demands just to get a bloody pint or - quite literally -



Far more people are excluded from pubs from the lack of a valid form of ID (no passport, no driving licence). Far more people are being excluded from venues choosing to charge at the door during the weekends.

In an ideal world, nobody at all would be excluded for any reason. But such is the world we live in. You're perfectly entitled to criticise the the Crown and Anchor for the very small minority of customers who don't have a debit card and are now left out, but the same (no, _far more_) criticism should be directed to venues who ask for ID or who charged admission at certain times, because they exclude as many if not far more people with their actions.

However, as per the norm this forum, I get the feeling certain individual businesses are being castigated for crimes that other venues do all the time as well, but which amazingly enough they get a free pass, or at worse, the mildest and most meaningless of criticisms.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> However, as per the norm this forum, I get the feeling certain individual businesses are being castigated for crimes that other venues do all the time as well, but which amazingly enough they get a free pass, or at worse, the mildest and most meaningless of criticisms.


Oh really? Can you tell me what other pubs in Brixton have decided to operate a card-only policy then, please?

I'll be happy to condemn them too because it fucking sucks.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 12, 2018)

The availability of contactless/debit cards is a bit of a red herring imho
the fact that ones freedom to choose is being limited is more valid
as has been pointed out here some demographic groups are resistant to cashless
By removing an element of choice the pub is deliberately excluding those groups


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Oh really? Can you tell me what other pubs in Brixton have decided to operate a card-only policy then, please?
> 
> I'll be happy to condemn them too because it fucking sucks.



Someone told me Hootenanny has but that is just a rumour.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Dec 12, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Surprisingly easy
> 
> Basic Bank Accounts


Interesting! Looks like a relatively new phenomenon, presumably fuelled in part by the requirement for people to have bank accounts these days in order to get benefits, or to be paid, or to pay rent.  

To quote from that website - "banks don't tell you about these accounts as they don't really want people to have them"


----------



## Guineveretoo (Dec 12, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> The availability of contactless/debit cards is a bit of a red herring imho
> the fact that ones freedom to choose is being limited is more valid
> as has been pointed out here some demographic groups are resistant to cashless
> By removing an element of choice the pub is deliberately excluding those groups


I am not sure it is fair to say that the pub is "deliberately excluding" people, as that suggests that they are doing this for that reason. it is more a case that they have, presumably, done some kind of assessment and decided that the risk of losing customers by introducing the card only policy is less than the inconvenience and increased insurance premiums of being broken into.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Someone told me Hootenanny has but that is just a rumour.


It wasn't the last time I went there recently and there's nothing on their website.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> Far more people are excluded from pubs from the lack of a valid form of ID (no passport, no driving licence). Far more people are being excluded from venues choosing to charge at the door during the weekends.
> 
> In an ideal world, nobody at all would be excluded for any reason. But such is the world we live in. You're perfectly entitled to criticise the the Crown and Anchor for the very small minority of customers who don't have a debit card and are now left out, but the same (no, _far more_) criticism should be directed to venues who ask for ID or who charged admission at certain times, because they exclude as many if not far more people with their actions.
> 
> However, as per the norm this forum, I get the feeling certain individual businesses are being castigated for crimes that other venues do all the time as well, but which amazingly enough they get a free pass, or at worse, the mildest and most meaningless of criticisms.


ID is a licencing condition imposed by the plod and council. Hardly comparable.


----------



## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Oh really? Can you tell me what other pubs in Brixton have decided to operate a card-only policy then, please?
> 
> I'll be happy to condemn them too because it fucking sucks.


I'm not talking about cashless operations. I'm talking about other policies that are also' excluding the poorest members of the community'- the charge being levied against the C&A here. Charging for admission, for instance. Doesn't get much more excluding than that.


----------



## alcopop (Dec 12, 2018)

Guineveretoo said:


> Interesting! Looks like a relatively new phenomenon, presumably fuelled in part by the requirement for people to have bank accounts these days in order to get benefits, or to be paid, or to pay rent.
> 
> To quote from that website - "banks don't tell you about these accounts as they don't really want people to have them"


The app banks are really easy to open as well; monza , starling etc.


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## snowy_again (Dec 12, 2018)

Nope, they need photo ID too (passport etc.) - which lots of people don't have.


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## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> I'm not talking about cashless operations. I'm talking about other policies that are also' excluding the poorest members of the community'- the charge being levied against the C&A here. Charging for admission, for instance. Doesn't get much more excluding than that.


So you're bringing up _*clubs*_ now in a thread about a pub? Why, exactly?


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## TruXta (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> So you're bringing up _*clubs*_ now in a thread about a pub? Why, exactly?


Because they're part of the same industry as pubs maybe? Hardly moving the goalposts.


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## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

TruXta said:


> Because they're part of the same industry as pubs maybe? Hardly moving the goalposts.


You expect to pay to get into a club. You don't expect to pay to get into a pub. Pubs are generally more about community and welcome people of all ages. Clubs tend to appeal to a much smaller demographic. And pubs are usually open in the daytime, clubs aren't.

And I'm struggling to think of any card-only clubs in the area too.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Nope, they need photo ID too (passport etc.) - which lots of people don't have.


You need to submit a bloody video interview to get on Monza too. Fuck that.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 12, 2018)

Guineveretoo said:


> I am not sure it is fair to say that the pub is "deliberately excluding" people, as that suggests that they are doing this for that reason. it is more a case that they have, presumably, done some kind of assessment and decided that the risk of losing customers by introducing the card only policy is less than the inconvenience and increased insurance premiums of being broken into.


So you are saying the people who can't/won't pay by card can be ignored because they dont have enough spending power as a group The pub knows well they can get away with this because of the influx of affluent young professionals and because they enjoy a virtual monopoly in this neck of the woods where the vast majority of pubs Grosvenor, Loughborough hotel, Paulet arms, Canterbury and Prince of Wales to name a few, have closed......


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## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> You expect to pay to get into a club. You don't expect to pay to get into a pub. Pubs are generally more about community and welcome people of all ages. Clubs tend to appeal to a much smaller demographic. And pubs are usually open in the daytime, clubs aren't.
> 
> And I'm struggling to think of any card-only clubs in the area too.


It's the Dog Star a classified as a nightclub? And there are other venues which can perhaps be described as a bar instead of a pub, but they're certinaly not clubs.


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## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> It's the Dog Star a nightclub?


Ah the Dogstar! The place I _completely coincidentally_ happen to DJ at sometimes? 

Seeing as you asked, I'd say that it's a pub most of the time and free to get in with no wanky, exclusive card-only bullshit.

At the weekend it operates as a pub/club after 10pm, although there is a completely free guest list whenever I play there - and you only have to email to get on the free list for their club nights. That said, charging a fiver seems reasonable enough seeing as you're getting up to three floors of DJs, big sound systems, a thumping dancefloor and the place is open till 4am - way after the pubs have closed.

Why do you ask?


----------



## Guineveretoo (Dec 12, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> So you are saying the people who can't/won't pay by card can be ignored because they dont have enough spending power as a group The pub knows well they can get away with this because of the influx of affluent young professionals and because they enjoy a virtual monopoly in this neck of the woods where the vast majority of pubs Grosvenor, Loughborough hotel, Paulet arms, Canterbury and Prince of Wales to name a few, have closed......


Where did I say that?

You can interpret my comments however you like - I really don't care - but I did not say anything of the kind.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> You expect to pay to get into a club. You don't expect to pay to get into a pub. Pubs are generally more about community and welcome people of all ages. Clubs tend to appeal to a much smaller demographic. And pubs are usually open in the daytime, clubs aren't.
> 
> And I'm struggling to think of any card-only clubs in the area too.


I'm not saying they're the same, but they're becoming increasingly similar in many respects.


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## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Ah the Dogstar! The place I _completely coincidentally_ happen to DJ at sometimes?
> 
> Seeing as you asked, I'd say that it's a pub most of the time and free to get in with no wanky, exclusive card-only bullshit.
> 
> ...


Not everyone debating with you is trying to score points or make it personal. At least, I can assure I am not. The Dog Star is the first one that came to mind, but of course there are plenty of others.

The point is there are many different reasons or policies by which a venue could be judged to be excluding or discriminating against certain members of the community. Anything even slightly higher than rock bottom prices will exclude some of the poorer people . Admission fees will exclude some of them. Pub apps that allow punters with a smartphone to order and pay for drinks from their table and bypass queues at the bar are discriminatory towards the many people who can’t afford a smartphone.

Bottom line is, many if not most venues and businesses are likely to be excluding the poorest members of the community one way or another. In many cases this was not the intention but a policy that the owner judged to make good financial sense. Some venue owners have decided going cashless is beneficial. Others have decided charging admission st certain times is beneficial. Fundamentally there is little difference between those two policies: they will both cause a minority of people who might have otherwise visited the premises not do so.

So what do we do? Do we accept that pubs have sometimes to do such things to continue to be financially viable? Or do we denounce them all for any measure that might exclude the poorest among us (never mind that the poorest are simply unable to ever go to a pub no matter how cheap)? If we’re going to take the latter approach, then we should criticise a great many more pubs rather than single out one.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 12, 2018)

Guineveretoo said:


> Where did I say that?
> 
> You can interpret my comments however you like - I really don't care - but I did not say anything of the kind.


Apologies I must've mistaken your analysis of the pubs actions as support for them.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> The point is there are many different reasons or policies by which a venue could be judged to be excluding or discriminating against certain members of the community. Anything even slightly higher than rock bottom prices will exclude some of the poorer people . Admission fees will exclude some of them. Pub apps that allow punters with a smartphone to order and pay for drinks from their table and bypass queues at the bar are discriminatory towards the many people who can’t afford a smartphone.


Except this pub has introduced a discriminatory policy that is so unusual that it makes the BBC national news. Whatever happens at the Dogstar or other late night clubs is completely irrelevant.


T & P said:


> So what do we do? Do we accept that pubs have sometimes to do such things to continue to be financially viable? Or do we denounce them all for any measure that might exclude the poorest among us (never mind that the poorest are simply unable to ever go to a pub no matter how cheap)?


We don't make excuses, turn a blind eye or start throwing around spurious and irrelevant comparisons that let the business off the hook, is what we _should_ do. Most of the responses here have ultimately been along the I'm-alright-Jack  lines of "_If you don't like it fuck off elsewhere_."

And not for one second do I believe that the Crown & Anchor needs this policy to remain financially viable.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Dec 12, 2018)

So what happens when your card fails? Do they take my Scottish twenty or do they take the drinks back off you? My credit card has been quite flaky of late as in the bank keep questioning reasonable transactions.


----------



## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Do you know if banks are obliged to provide this service or can they refuse if they want to? I can’t seem to find good information on that online.
> 
> What if you’ve fucked about in the past and have an awful credit history and then went bankrupt and then kicked Mark Carney in the bawlz? Are banks still compelled to provide a very basic chip and pin service to anybody who wants one?


No idea but they should. I’d imagine a typical savings account would not be a problem as it has no overdraft, chequebooks and cannot go into negative balance.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Dec 12, 2018)

Cold Harbour said:


> I operate a cash-based economy day to day, use my bank account for salary and direct debits and take a weekly cash 'allowance' out. If I run out of cash I go home, I don't get paid enough to be in debt. I'm far from the only person I know who still pays with cash in supermarkets, pubs etc. I'm a middle aged professional with a PhD, and skint.



I do this. Mine and my partners rent and bills all come out of my account at various points in the month. We have pretty tight finances so I take a chunk of money out to live on for the month and the rest stays in the bank to make sure we don't miss any payments. When I had a different job and was paid a bit more money I didn't have to run my finances this way. A cashless bar wouldn't work for people like me. Tbh I couldn't afford their prices these days anyway.


** I celebrated my 30th there and we had a great time. They were really accommodating of my brother in laws dietary requirements as well.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

19sixtysix said:


> So what happens when your card fails?


"Off you fuck," I believe is the answer.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 12, 2018)

19sixtysix said:


> So what happens when your card fails? Do they take my Scottish twenty or do they take the drinks back off you? My credit card has been quite flaky of late as in the bank keep questioning reasonable transactions.



Having been in card only coffee shops when the internet fails, they take cash in emergencies. seeing as typically in pubs drinks are poured before payment is made - I’d  imagine they’d rather take cash rather than pour drinks down the drain.

Alex


----------



## alex_ (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> "Off you fuck," I believe is the answer.



Seeing as your six pound pint will be on the bar, I suspect cash will win over principles.

Alex


----------



## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Except this pub has introduced a discriminatory policy that is so unusual that it makes the BBC national news. Whatever happens at the Dogstar or other late night clubs is completely irrelevant.
> We don't make excuses, turn a blind eye or start throwing around spurious and irrelevant comparisons that let the business off the hook, is what we _should_ do. Most of the responses here have ultimately been along the I'm-alright-Jack  lines of "_If you don't like it fuck off elsewhere_."
> 
> And not for one second do I believe that the Crown & Anchor needs this policy to remain financially viable.


You keep ignoring the fact that anyone can open a savings or basic account regardless of their economic circumstances. So I don’t think the poverty argument holds much water here.  Not being able to open a current account is a serious and costly issue as people are unable to set up direct debits and pay higher tariffs for essential services. But anyone can open a savings account. So the poverty exclusion issue goes out of the window as far as I can see.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Seeing as your six pound pint will be on the bar, I suspect cash will win over principles.


The notice on their website seems quite emphatic on the matter. It's even written in CAPS AND BOLD:


> *PLEASE BE AWARE THAT WE ONLY ACCEPT CARD PAYMENTS AT THE CROWN AND ANCHOR*


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> You keep ignoring the fact that anyone can open a savings or basic account regardless of their economic circumstances. So I don’t think the poverty argument holds much water here.  Not being able to open a current account is a serious and costly issue as people are unable to set up direct debits and pay higher tariffs for essential services. But anyone can open a savings account. So the poverty exclusion issue goes out of the window as far as I can see.


I don't think you can even understand this, but there's many reasons why people may not be able to, or prefer not to, have a debit card, or why some prefer to use cash. 

Heck, it's even been explained to you by at least one poster in this thread, but all you can do is parrot the boss's line of, "Do what I say or fuck off."


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

> *We are passionate about the authentic pub experience.*



LOL.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 12, 2018)

FCA guidance on bank accounts, including basic bank accounts halfway down the page.  

Opening a bank account

Article on businesses that are opting to go card only and their views on it:

‘Cash is just grief’: why shops and bars want to make you pay by card

Article highlighting the issues with moving towards a cashless society - it's interesting and well written.  Which raises the climate versus weather argument again  And that picking on a specific business that chooses to do so is kind of far from the point. 

The cashless society is a con – and big finance is behind it | Brett Scott

I very much doubt the Crown and Anchor want to deliberately fuck the poor - it is more an undesirable and unfortunate consequence of (a) the fact that he's been robbed and is sick of it and (b) the fact that not many people pay by cash.  It's a business decision that he is entitled to make. 

It's also not *so* unusual that the BBC have picked up on it.  You know how the media are, they like to pick on symbolic cases.  I may be wrong but fairly sure the Douglas Fir in CP is or is going cashless.  There is a cashless cafe near my work and also a shop in East Dulwich that is cash only, and they're only the ones that I've been in recently that I can remember.

Blame the banks and not the small business that is following its market.  They are not social enterprises.

That said, I would much rather all business offered a choice.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

discobastard said:


> FCA guidance on bank accounts, including basic bank accounts halfway down the page.
> 
> Opening a bank account....
> 
> ...


Excuses, excuses, excuses. How can it be the bosses fault, eh? Blame anyone and anything but the single solitary pub that has elected to disenfranchise and exclude some of its customers.

Oh, and I'm sure that the link telling people who prefer to pay cash how to open up that account that they don't want is going to be really useful. Like they'd be fucking reading this thread anyhow.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I don't think you can even understand this, but there's many reasons why people may not be able to, or prefer not to, have a debit card, or why some prefer to use cash.
> 
> Heck, it's even been explained to you by at least one poster in this thread, but all you can do is parrot the boss's line of, "Do what I say or fuck off."


I've been in cash only establishments recently, which offer (to a degree) the same lack of choice.  I've never taken that as 'do what I say or fuck off'.  If I don't like it I'll take my business elsewhere.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Excuses, excuses, excuses. How can it be the bosses fault, eh? Blame anyone and anything but the single solitary pub that has elected to disenfranchise and exclude some of its customers.
> 
> Oh, and I'm sure that the link telling people who prefer to pay cash how to open up that account that they don't want is going to be really useful. Like they'd be fucking reading this thread anyhow.


It's got nothing to do with whether they are reading this thread.  The extreme majority of people in the UK won't pass by this place.

There are plenty good points made in those articles worth discussing for and against cashless, and many of the reasons why it is happening, but I suspect this thread will continue to be a bunch of extremely polarised and basically useless posts where nobody touches on the real issues.

The pub is not to blame. The system is to blame.  Your apparent conviction that the landlord is a cunt who wants people without cards to fuck off seems to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  So we won't discuss the stealthy creep towards a cashless surveillance society, we'll just focus on this one bloke who's made a decision *that isn't really that unusual*.

As I pointed out - it is not a 'single solitary pub', there are lots of other businesses, pubs included, that are going cash free.  So that statement is wholly incorrect.

Oh, and to repeat what I said earlier, I do wish that it wasn't so and that all business still offered a choice.  But they don't, and so surely it's more interesting to discuss why that might be rather than screaming into the abyss about one of many small businesses that isn't likely to row back as a result of this conversation.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 12, 2018)

And I don't like this at all...

About us | Gocashless

It's all about control.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Your apparent conviction that the landlord is a cunt


And there you go again. Making up inflammatory shit. I have not used that word to describe the landlord. Not once, not ever, so retract your comment immediately.


discobastard said:


> As I pointed out - it is not a 'single solitary pub', there are lots of other businesses, pubs included, that are going cash free. So that statement is wholly incorrect.


Name one other pub in Brixton.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> And there you go again. Making up inflammatory shit. I have not used that word to describe the landlord. Not once, not ever, so retract your comment immediately.
> Name one other pub in Brixton.


You *did not* call the landlord a cunt.  My bad.  Though it seems there is some contempt held for him based on the decision he has made.  Is that more accurate?  Is that a true statement?  (ETA you did suggest his view is that 'if you don't like it then you can fuck off', which is essentially a fairly robust and damning critique of the individual in question).

I'm not talking about 'pubs in Brixton', I'm talking about businesses.  And I've named at least three others that are in Lambeth/Southwark.  And if there are enough businesses in Lambeth/Southwark that are doing that then you can bet there are many more.  Because I don't get out as much as I used to 

Stop needling it down to incredibly precise points, because you *know* that is not a productive way to argue these issues.  If one can't discuss the bigger picture then there is no point in picking out individual businesses.


----------



## SpamMisery (Dec 12, 2018)

If regular burglary is an issue, maybe he should revive the use of cheques. Or a bartering system which would have the added benefit of shielding the business against hyperinflation.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> You keep ignoring the fact that anyone can open a savings or basic account regardless of their economic circumstances. So I don’t think the poverty argument holds much water here.  Not being able to open a current account is a serious and costly issue as people are unable to set up direct debits and pay higher tariffs for essential services. But anyone can open a savings account. So the poverty exclusion issue goes out of the window as far as I can see.



See snowy_again post 701.

Not anyone can open a basic account. You have to have photo ID. A passport or driving license.

btw less well off people don't do DD. Why in LJ the paypoint for pay as you go gas and electric is busy. If your poor in this country you get screwed anyway.


----------



## alcopop (Dec 12, 2018)

Cashless society looms as debit cards jump into lead


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

discobastard said:


> You *did not* call the landlord a cunt.  My bad.  Though it seems there is some contempt held for him based on the decision he has made.  Is that more accurate?  Is that a true statement?  (ETA you did suggest his view is that 'if you don't like it then you can fuck off', which is essentially a fairly robust and damning critique of the individual in question).


Why are you even introducing such unpleasant inflammatory language into this discussion? Why are you trying to misrepresent what I'm saying?


discobastard said:


> Stop needling it down to incredibly precise points, because you *know* that is not a productive way to argue these issues.


And you think manufacturing a foul mouthed position from me is the way to go? Take a look at yourself, for fuck's sake.

Oh, and what is the name of the other pubs in Brixton who are card-only please? Because that's what this thread is about.


----------



## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I don't think you can even understand this, but there's many reasons why people may not be able to, or prefer not to, have a debit card, or why some prefer to use cash.
> 
> Heck, it's even been explained to you by at least one poster in this thread, but all you can do is parrot the boss's line of, "Do what I say or fuck off."


Poverty angle deftly brushed aside, one could say that it is you who might have engaged in a bit of goalpost-moving.

Life as we know it is all about balance and compromises- it is virtually impossible to accommodate everyone all the time. Given that the lack of a debit card is chiefly a personal choice, that as little as 2-3% only of the population lack one, and that those very few people affected have a choice of other pubs to frequent, i’d say this is as a non-controversial as a story as they get.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> Why are you even introducing such unpleasant inflammatory language into this discussion? Why are you trying to misrepresent what I'm saying?
> And you think manufacturing a foul mouthed position from me is the way to go? Take a look at yourself, for fuck's sake.
> 
> Oh, and what is the name of the other pubs in Brixton who are card-only please?


It’s very simple. Your comments suggest contempt for the landlord in question. I may have got that wrong. What is your position on him based on the quote I highlighted? 

I also made it very clear about puns in Brixton. 

You haven’t read my post or answered as asked.  

If you are not prepared to engage with what is being said then it’s all pretty pointless and twisting away from the pertinent issues. 

And the weird thing is, as I’ve said, I’d rather all businesses offered a choice. But you seem to be continuing your very single minded personal agenda [emoji1787]

As you were.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 12, 2018)

discobastard said:


> FCA guidance on bank accounts, including basic bank accounts halfway down the page.
> 
> Opening a bank account
> 
> ...



Sorry I don't follow your argument. 

Your saying the pub got robbed plus not many people pay by cash in it. So this was just business choice.

Then say it's fault of big banks. They are to blame. 

So which is it?


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

discobastard said:


> It’s very simple. Your comments suggest contempt for the landlord in question. I may have got that wrong. What is your position on him based on the quote I highlighted?


I'm putting you on mutual ignore because, as this post once again demonstrates, you can't get past the personal. You're not interested in arguing the topic, but only in pursuing your monumentally dull and disruptive personal agenda and it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion, and adds to the unpleasant tone of these boards. 

I'm sure you're acquainted with the rules of 'mutual ignore' so I don't need to explain what happens if you carry on. Bye.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> Life as we know it is all about balance and compromises- it is virtually impossible to accommodate everyone all the time. Given that the lack of a debit card is chiefly a personal choice, that as little as 2-3% only of the population lack one, and that those very few people affected have a choice of other pubs to frequent, i’d say this is as a non-controversial as a story as they get.


To you, yes. I guess it might be a bit of a story to those who now find themselves excluded in an area that has lost almost all of its traditional pubs.

Still, as Norman Tebbitt said, they can get on their bikes, eh?

What's your thoughts on this article?



> But concerns have been raised for vulnerable groups who might be disproportionately affected by any reduction in the ability to obtain or pay through cash. According to UK Finance, more than half of people who rely predominantly on cash to the exclusion of other payment methods have a household incomes below £15,000.
> 
> “I’m really concerned about this move toward a mainly cashless way of doing things,” said Lady Tyler, who was chair of the House of Lords select committee on financial exclusion. “These changes might suit people who are very digitally competent, they might suit banks who can reduce their costs, [but] I really don’t think they are thinking about more vulnerable groups,” she said.
> 
> ...





> Mark Trevor, commercial director at Vaultex, which handles one-third of the country’s cash, said while they could not provide figures, they are seeing less of a decline in cash use than other sources are reporting. “While industry figures do show a decline in cash use, the idea that we will all be going cashless has been greatly exaggerated.”



Revealed: Cash eclipsed as Britain turns to digital payments


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> Poverty angle deftly brushed aside, one could say that it is you who might have engaged in a bit of goalpost-moving.
> 
> Life as we know it is all about balance and compromises- it is virtually impossible to accommodate everyone all the time. Given that the lack of a debit card is chiefly a personal choice, that as little as 2-3% only of the population lack one, and that those very few people affected have a choice of other pubs to frequent, i’d say this is as a non-controversial as a story as they get.



This is wrong way to look at it. This is not about personal choice. Society is constructed in such a way that one's choices become constrained. Its not about balance and compromise.

The move to towards cashless society may or may not become a reality.  This won't be due to individuals personal choice.

A cashless society would imo being reducing choice.


----------



## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I don't think you can even understand this, but there's many reasons why people may not be able to, or prefer not to, have a debit card, or why some prefer to use cash.
> 
> Heck, it's even been explained to you by at least one poster in this thread, but all you can do is parrot the boss's line of, "Do what I say or fuck off."





discobastard said:


> I've been in cash only establishments recently, which offer (to a degree) the same lack of choice.  I've never taken that as 'do what I say or fuck off'.  If I don't like it I'll take my business elsewhere.


 discobastard’s observation above has not been commented upon. Would you describe one of the many businesses that traditionally have only taken cash as having a “Do what I say or fuck off” philosophy? Because there is virtually no difference whatsoever there.


----------



## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> This is wrong way to look at it. This is not about personal choice. Society is constructed in such a way that one's choices become constrained. Its not about balance and compromise.
> 
> The move to towards cashless society may or may not become a reality.  This won't be due to individual's personal choice.
> 
> A cashless society would imo being reducing choice.


If course- it will reduce choices for people.but some changes one has to accept if there are not that life-changing, others are more detrimental and are worth the fight.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> If course- it will reduce choices for people.but some changes one has to accept if there are not that life-changing, others are more detrimental and are worth the fight.



Accepting change is not the same as agreeing with it. I don't agree with it.


----------



## T & P (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> To you, yes. I guess it might be a bit of a story to those who now find themselves excluded in an area that has lost almost all of its traditional pubs.
> 
> Still, as Norman Tebbitt said, they can get on their bikes, eh?
> 
> ...


What I think is that we’re still a long way out from becoming a full cashless society, and that dissing a completely inconsequential samall business for joining an already established, widespread trend for the potential financial or social damage that might cause to people across the country makes as much sense as blaming a single corner shop that doesn’t lower the thermostat at night for the rise in ocean levels.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm putting you on mutual ignore because, as this post once again demonstrates, you can't get past the personal. You're not interested in arguing the topic, but only in pursuing your monumentally dull and disruptive personal agenda and it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion, and adds to the unpleasant tone of these boards.
> 
> I'm sure you're acquainted with the rules of 'mutual ignore' so I don't need to explain what happens if you carry on. Bye.


No, you just don’t  want to answer against things you’ve put forward. 

If contributing facts and reasoned arguments equals pursuing a personal and disruptive agenda then these boards are fucked.  

Cheers

Ps ignore doesn’t work on Tapatalk, so you can ban me instead. [emoji1360]


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

T & P said:


> Would you describe one of the many businesses that traditionally have only taken cash as having a “Do what I say or fuck off” philosophy? Because there is virtually no difference whatsoever there.


There is a colossal amount of difference. Anyone can use cash. Not everyone can use debit cards, or want to, for a huge variety of reasons.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

T & P said:


> What I think is that we’re still a long way out from becoming a full cashless society, and that dissing a completely inconsequential samall business for joining an already established, widespread trend for the potential financial or social damage that might cause to people across the country makes as much sense as blaming a single corner shop that doesn’t lower the thermostat at night for the rise in ocean levels.


There is not an "already established, widespread trend" for Brixton pubs to switch to card-only. In fact, it's so rare that the Crown and Anchor made the national news when they did it. 

Why aren't you commenting on the content I quoted here in this post?


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

For all the talk of the switch to card-only being some sort of unstoppable tidal wave that has already engulfed pubs all around the country, as far as I can see there are just two in all of Britain right now. 

This one which hit the headlines three months ago and the Crown. 

And interestingly: 


> But Brigid Simmonds from the British Beer and Pub Association warned the cost of digital payment systems can add as much as 20p to the price of a pint.



And to repeat the obvious: 


> From concerns about data privacy to poor broadband in rural areas, there are all sorts of reasons, argues Clark, why people in the UK want to – and should be allowed to – use cash: “One in 10 of the population have never used the internet. Only 19% of over-65s own a smartphone. This is a real demographic who find [cashless] difficult. Yet the government seems to think it acceptable to cut them out of the economy.” The former Bank of England chief cashier, Victoria Cleland, put it this way in a 2017 speech: “*Cash is vital in supporting financial inclusion.”*
> ‘Cash is just grief’: why shops and bars want to make you pay by card


----------



## marty21 (Dec 13, 2018)

editor said:


> For all the talk of the switch to card-only being some sort of unstoppable tidal wave that has already engulfed pubs all around the country, as far as I can see there are just two in all of Britain right now.
> 
> This one which hit the headlines three months ago and the Crown.
> 
> ...


The BBC article posted earlier confirms that 4 of the pubs owned by the Crown and Anchor owner are now cashless.


----------



## SpamMisery (Dec 13, 2018)

And most of Sweden


----------



## alcopop (Dec 13, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> And most of Sweden


Why Sweden is close to becoming a cashless economy

Behold the future (whether you like it or not!)


----------



## Winot (Dec 13, 2018)

Went to Sweden on holiday this summer. Took a few hundred quid in cash (for 2 weeks for family of 4) and had real trouble using it. Lots of buskers display their Swish number so that people can give them small amounts of money.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 13, 2018)

editor said:


> The notice on their website seems quite emphatic on the matter. It's even written in CAPS AND BOLD:



Are you really telling me at the point you’ve explained you don’t have a card on you, they are just about to chuck the drink they’ve already poured away ?

Alex


----------



## Rushy (Dec 13, 2018)

Winot said:


> Went to Sweden on holiday this summer. Took a few hundred quid in cash (for 2 weeks for family of 4) and had real trouble using it. Lots of buskers display their Swish number so that people can give them small amounts of money.


Conversely, I was in Heidelberg on the weekend. Surprised to find that not a single bar, restaurant, market stall, cafe, public pool I went into took cards. There was a train strike on Monday so I had to get a cab to Frankfurt airport. They did accept credit card ... but their iPad app didn't work!


----------



## Winot (Dec 13, 2018)

Rushy said:


> Conversely, I was in Heidelberg on the weekend. Surprised to find that not a single bar, restaurant, market stall, cafe, public pool I went into took cards. There was a train strike on Monday so I had to get a cab to Frankfurt airport. They did accept credit card ... but their iPad app didn't work!



Yeah Germany is bizarrely behind in that respect. Their internet coverage is terrible too.


----------



## Rushy (Dec 13, 2018)

Winot said:


> Yeah Germany is bizarrely behind in that respect. Their internet coverage is terrible too.


That's exactly what my mate said when I mentioned it!

First time I've been in a heavily smokey bar for a while too. I can safely say that I don't miss it!


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

Winot said:


> Went to Sweden on holiday this summer. Took a few hundred quid in cash (for 2 weeks for family of 4) and had real trouble using it. Lots of buskers display their Swish number so that people can give them small amounts of money.


That's great. So happy you had a lovely time.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Are you really telling me at the point you’ve explained you don’t have a card on you, they are just about to chuck the drink they’ve already poured away ?
> 
> Alex


I've seen bars take away drinks from customers when their cards are declined PLENTY of times.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

marty21 said:


> The BBC article posted earlier confirms that 4 of the pubs owned by the Crown and Anchor owner are now cashless.


So that makes five, four of which are owned by the same guy. What do you think of the arguments against card-only policies presented by the likes of Age UK etc?


----------



## marty21 (Dec 13, 2018)

editor said:


> So that makes five, four of which are owned by the same guy. What do you think of the arguments against card-only policies presented by the likes of Age UK etc?


I heard about another in Suffolk whilst googling this , so there are probably a fair few more - there's a bakery in Clapton that is card only as well. Personally it doesn't bother me as I use a lot less cash nowadays and usually pay by card in pubs (although my card broke and I'm waiting for a new one so I am back using cash at the moment )  I can understand why a business would go card only - it's a lot less hassle, but they are ignoring a still significant (but reducing) cash economy - and yes, older people use cash more , my late dad would have been outraged if he couldn't pay in cash - he never used a credit card/debit card or any card in his life and died about 3 years ago.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

marty21 said:


> I heard about another in Suffolk whilst googling this , so there are probably a fair few more - there's a bakery in Clapton that is card only as well. Personally it doesn't bother me as I use a lot less cash nowadays and usually pay by card in pubs (although my card broke and I'm waiting for a new one so I am back using cash at the moment )  I can understand why a business would go card only - it's a lot less hassle, but they are ignoring a still significant (but reducing) cash economy - and yes, older people use cash more , my late dad would have been outraged if he couldn't pay in cash - he never used a credit card/debit card or any card in his life and died about 3 years ago.


it doesn't effect me personally, but it definitely affects people in my community - particularly the poorer and older members - and that's why I think it should be resisted and condemned. Most pubs aren't like regular shops: they've often played a key role in the community for decades - and owe their existence to that community support -  and can provide a vital place for people of all ages to relax and socialise.

You'll see loads of old boys paying cash at the bar in pubs and I think it sucks that they've been excluded just to make a profitable pub chain's life a little bit easier - and it must hurt even more when it happens in an area that has precious few pubs left within walking distance.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 13, 2018)

editor said:


> I've seen bars take away drinks from customers when their cards are declined PLENTY of times.



Were they waving a tenner at the barman at the time ?

Alex


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Were they waving a tenner at the barman ?


They weren't one of the very few bars that forces customers to use cards only but - to repeat seeing as you seem to have trouble letting this sink in - I've seen bars take away drinks from customers when their cards are declined PLENTY of times. It's not unusual at all. If you can't pay they take it away (and, sadly, often throw it away down the sink).


----------



## Mr Retro (Dec 13, 2018)

Winot said:


> Went to Sweden on holiday this summer. Took a few hundred quid in cash (for 2 weeks for family of 4) and had real trouble using it. Lots of buskers display their Swish number so that people can give them small amounts of money.


Ya I’m in Sweden regularity and I’ve never taken cash. You simply don’t need it there and there are lots of places where you can’t use it at all.  

It’s the way it’s going to be almost everywhere in the next decade or so I think. 

To repeat myself I hope the infrastructure is put in place alongside this change so nobody is left behind. Im not sure it will.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 13, 2018)

editor said:


> They weren't one of the very few bars that forces customers to use cards only but - to repeat seeing as you seem to have trouble letting this sink in - I've seen bars take away drinks from customers when their cards are declined PLENTY of times. It's not unusual at all. If you can't pay they take it away (and, sadly, often throw it away down the sink).



Yes, it’s normal to not let people have things they can’t pay for.

It’s not normal to refuse to sell someone something who is able to and trying to buy it.

I bet they have a plan b, what happens when the internet stops working do they close the pub or start taking cash ?

Alex


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## Mr Retro (Dec 13, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Yes, it’s normal to not let people have things they can’t pay for.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Yes, it’s normal to not let people have things they can’t pay for.
> 
> It’s not normal to refuse to sell someone something who is able to and trying to buy it.
> 
> ...


From their website, written in bold text and capitals and supported by posters around the pub:



> *PLEASE BE AWARE THAT WE ONLY ACCEPT CARD PAYMENTS AT THE CROWN AND ANCHOR.*



Maybe they're only joking and take cash after all. What a tease!


----------



## T & P (Dec 13, 2018)

editor said:


> There is a colossal amount of difference. Anyone can use cash. Not everyone can use debit cards, or want to, for a huge variety of reasons.


Many people don't want to carry cash for a number of reasons either, or (from time to time at least) cannot use cash at the particular time when they're hoping to buy the goods or use the services of a particular retailer- for instance by the extraordinarly common occurrence of running out of cash in your wallet, or simply not carrying enough.

In fact I'd be willing to bet that considerably higher numbers of people are inconvenienced on a daily basis by cash-only retailers than by cashless retailers. You might either believe it is the right of the business owner to implement such policy if they see it fit, or believe it is out of order and amounts to a 'fuck you' to the customer. But if you believe the latter, you'd better also criticise cash-only retailers, because it seems to me not just as objectionable as card-only retailrs, but arguably far more so.


----------



## djdando (Dec 13, 2018)

T & P said:


> Many people don't want to carry cash for a number of reasons either, or (from time to time at least) cannot use cash at the particular time when they're hoping to buy the goods or use the services of a particular retailer- for instance by the extraordinarly common occurrence of running out of cash in your wallet, or simply not carrying enough.
> 
> In fact I'd be willing to bet that considerably higher numbers of people are inconvenienced on a daily basis by cash-only retailers than by cashless retailers. You might either believe it is the right of the business owner to implement such policy if they see it fit, or believe it is out of order and amounts to a 'fuck you' to the customer. But if you believe the latter, you'd better also criticise cash-only retailers, because it seems to me not just as objectionable as card-only retailrs, but arguably far more so.



Couldn’t agree more. Let’s be honest, the reason why lots of retailers prefer cash is so they don’t have to declare it all.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Dec 13, 2018)

Rushy said:


> Conversely, I was in Heidelberg on the weekend. Surprised to find that not a single bar, restaurant, market stall, cafe, public pool I went into took cards. There was a train strike on Monday so I had to get a cab to Frankfurt airport. They did accept credit card ... but their iPad app didn't work!



Apple Pay launched here this week and people have lost their minds. Pay with a phone wtf  Even 'contactless' here means entering your pin still. It's odd.


----------



## Rushy (Dec 13, 2018)

Thimble Queen said:


> Apple Pay launched here this week and people have lost their minds. Pay with a phone wtf  Even 'contactless' here means entering your pin still. It's odd.


Are you in Germany?


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

T & P said:


> Many people don't want to carry cash for a number of reasons either, or (from time to time at least) cannot use cash at the particular time when they're hoping to buy the goods or use the services of a particular retailer- for instance by the extraordinarly common occurrence of running out of cash in your wallet, or simply not carrying enough.
> 
> In fact I'd be willing to bet that considerably higher numbers of people are inconvenienced on a daily basis by cash-only retailers than by cashless retailers. You might either believe it is the right of the business owner to implement such policy if they see it fit, or believe it is out of order and amounts to a 'fuck you' to the customer. But if you believe the latter, you'd better also criticise cash-only retailers, because it seems to me not just as objectionable as card-only retailrs, but arguably far more so.


You'll say anything rather than admit that those being hit hardest by pubs operating a card-only policy are most likely to be those on low pay, the elderly and other disenfranchised groups.

Why are you such a apologists for the bosses? Why don't you give a fuck about the minority of people in your community who are likely to be excluded by such policies?

The way this board keeps lurching to the right is fucking embarrassing and depressing.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Dec 13, 2018)

Rushy said:


> Are you in Germany?



Yep. Moved here from South London a couple of years ago.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

I've mentioned this card-only policy to quite a few people around Brixton. Almost everyone has immediately expressed concern for a variety of reasons and a feeling that the landlord is being out of order for forcing this inconvenient policy on locals. Most understand that it'll be those at the lower end of the income scale, and the elderly etc who would be likely to be adversely affected.

Contrast that with the response here, where barely a soul has expressed a hint of criticism for the bosses, offering all manner of distracting and irrelevant excuses as justification for the policy.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 13, 2018)

editor said:


> I've mentioned this card-only policy to quite a few people around Brixton. Almost everyone has immediately expressed concern for a variety of reasons and a feeling that the landlord is being out of order for forcing this inconvenient policy on locals. Most understand that it'll be those at the lower end of the income scale, and the elderly etc who would be likely to be adversely affected.
> 
> Contrast that with the response here, where barely a soul has expressed a hint of criticism for the bosses, offering all manner of distracting and irrelevant excuses as justification for the policy.


Simply untrue. Even disco said he wasn't in favour ffs.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2018)

TruXta said:


> Simply untrue. Even disco said he wasn't in favour ffs.


Saying you're not in favour whilst spinning reams and reams of excuses, unrelated case studies and caveats that make the decision look reasonable, fair and fine and something that should just be accepted is *not* the same as condemning the policy,' however you'd like to try and spin it.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Saying you're not in favour whilst spinning reams and reams of excuses, unrelated case studies and caveats that make the decision look reasonable, fair and fine and something that should just be accepted is *not* the same as condemning the policy,' however you'd like to try and spin it.


God forbid anyone tries to put anything into context eh?


----------



## T & P (Dec 13, 2018)

editor said:


> You'll say anything rather than admit that those being hit hardest by pubs operating a card-only policy are most likely to be those on low pay, the elderly and other disenfranchised groups.
> 
> Why are you such a apologists for the bosses? Why don't you give a fuck about the minority of people in your community who are likely to be excluded by such policies?
> 
> The way this board keeps lurching to the right is fucking embarrassing and depressing.


I am no more of an apologist for any boss than you are, nor I give any more or less of a fuck than you about people. I have simply argued throughout that the accusations levelled against this pub for going cashless, and the likely consequences of such policy on the local community have been exaggerated and upgraded in here from a mildly annoying inconvenience to a grave social injustice for the purpose of making this particular pub look as odious as possible.

Believe it or not I don’t care one jot for the pub in question, but as part and parcel of the basic nature of an Internet forum, where people exchange views on various subjects, I make no excuse for commenting on an issue being discussed. Claims that a differing opinion must be politically motivated or suggest anyone being an apologist for the business owner are both unjustified and wrong, in my case at least.

Anyway, I think this is the right point to agree to disagree.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 13, 2018)

TruXta said:


> God forbid anyone tries to put anything into context eh?



I've asked Discobastard to clarify as his post on this issue is contradictory. He doesn't get back.

Its not about context.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Dec 14, 2018)

I see this as a sign of the gentrifiers creating a hostile environment for local communities. I used to live down that end of Brixton and when they set up and took over the pavement and consequently the entrance to the park I knew they were trouble... lo and behold, they've now got a curryhouse opposite their boozer, giving interviews to national press about how dangerous it is for people to carry cash? 
Yeah. Great little local business.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Dec 14, 2018)

Stupid fucks, actually


----------



## discobastard (Dec 14, 2018)

.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 14, 2018)

.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I do, I'm just busy.  Has anybody bothered to read the articles I posted?



So am I. You post long posts. When asked to clarify what you mean don't get back.


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## Gramsci (Dec 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> But nobody seems to get that - they just dismiss any posts trying to establish context, don't read any of the evidence and continue to complain about the one business (of many) without looking at the bigger picture.  It's a waste of time.  And then you get a load of bullshit about 'transparently personal attacks' which is genuinely sooooooo far from the truth.



I do and asked you a specific question.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 14, 2018)

.


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## Gramsci (Dec 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I think it should be fairly clear what I am saying, I have tried to express it really simply, but at the same time post some articles that convey a number of different points of view.  These include, for clarity:
> 
> FCA guidance on how one can get a bank account and what the FCA expects of banks in this regard (I am not responsible for whether banks follow these guidelines)
> This also includes information on the 'basic' bank accounts - again, I am not responsible for this but am merely posting information in regaultory guidance - which I think is reasonable context, no?
> ...



Your just repeating at great length what you have posted already.

Can you please answer my question in post 737.

I've never called you a right wing toff btw. So don't understand why you put that in.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 14, 2018)

.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> You asked quite a vague question.  The economic system is facilitating something that suits them - i.e trackable and low cost payments.
> 
> There are systems available for consumers (hate that word) and businesses that make payments more convenient.  And for those that do use an account like Monzo or actually any of the other banks have good visibility into what you are spending and where - I have done a lot of research with people who are on relatively low incomes and online banking and for many it provides information to help them manage their money better than ever before - and at the same time I wholly accept that there are some who prefer to use cash because that is how they want to do things.  Some businesses see benefits too to using card only.  All businesses are different and who am I to dictate how they run them?
> 
> ...



Your not answering my question.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 14, 2018)

.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 14, 2018)

.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 14, 2018)

.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> That's because nobody bothered to engage with any of the detail in the first place and just parroted back the same contempt for a single business.



I haven't "parroted" back.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> You asked quite a vague question.  The economic system is facilitating something that suits them - i.e trackable and low cost payments.
> 
> There are systems available for consumers (hate that word) and businesses that make payments more convenient.  And for those that do use an account like Monzo or actually any of the other banks have good visibility into what you are spending and where - I have done a lot of research with people who are on relatively low incomes and online banking and for many it provides information to help them manage their money better than ever before - and at the same time I wholly accept that there are some who prefer to use cash because that is how they want to do things.  Some businesses see benefits too to using card only.  All businesses are different and who am I to dictate how they run them?
> 
> ...



The impression I got from your post 724 is that banks are to blame for this move to cashless society and you were critical of this and thought people should have a choice. 

Your objection was that this business was just a small business and it was the overall system that was wrong. So anger should be directed at banks. Is this correct?

In this post you appear to say that cashless society is a good thing. 

So I'm none the wiser what your position is.


----------



## discobastard (Dec 14, 2018)

.


----------



## alcopop (Dec 14, 2018)

Redirect Notice


----------



## editor (Dec 14, 2018)

Fuck forcing a cashless society on people, even if it makes the lives of rich bosses a little bit more profitable. 





> In a world without cash, every payment you make will be traceable. Do you want governments (which are not always benevolent), banks or payment processors to have potential access to that information? The power this would hand them is enormous and the potential scope for Orwellian levels of surveillance is terrifying.
> 
> Cash, on the other hand, empowers its users. It enables them to buy and sell, and store their wealth, without being dependent on anyone else. They can stay outside the financial system, if so desired.





> Cash means total financial inclusion, a luxury the better-off take for granted. Without financial inclusion – and there will always be some who, for whatever reason, won’t have it – you are trapped in poverty. So beware the war on cash.



Why we should fear a cashless world | Dominic Frisby



> “The beauty of cash is that it’s a direct and simple transaction between all kinds of different people, no matter how rich or poor,” explains financial writer Dominic Frisby. “If you begin to insist on cashlessness, it does put pressure on you to be banked and signed up to financial system, and many of the poorest are likely to remain outside of that system. So there is this real danger of exclusion.”





> Wealth, however, remains the key factor in determining who might be entirely left behind by the evolving digital economy. Some of the poorest people in Europe’s richest cities have found themselves pushed aside.
> 
> In Amsterdam, homeless people selling street magazine Z!, the Dutch equivalent of The Big Issue, now struggle to find customers still using cash. Z! trialled card payments by giving a dozen of the city’s vendors iZettle readers back in 2013, but the method was deemed too cumbersome.
> 
> “After a few weeks, our vendors said, ‘Look, this is too complicated’,” says editor Hans van Dalfsen. “It became too clunky and time-consuming for the vendor to juggle their magazines, the card reader and their own mobile phone connected to Bluetooth – all that stuff was needed to carry out the transaction.”


The rise of the cashless city: 'There is this real danger of exclusion'


----------



## editor (Dec 14, 2018)

<link removed because it turns out the author is a twat>


----------



## snowy_again (Dec 14, 2018)

Some valid points in the earlier links but you might not want to cite info form a site that describes itself as

"[Return Of Kings is] a blog for heterosexual, masculine men. It’s meant for a small but vocal collection of men in America today who believe men should be masculine and women should be feminine." and weird incel ness: About – Return Of Kings


----------



## Thimble Queen (Dec 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Some valid points in the earlier links but you might not want to cite info form a site that describes itself as
> 
> "[Return Of Kings is] a blog for heterosexual, masculine men. It’s meant for a small but vocal collection of men in America today who believe men should be masculine and women should be feminine." and weird incel ness: About – Return Of Kings



It's run by that Roosh V pick up artist wanker. Isn't he also a well massive antisemite.


----------



## Mr Retro (Dec 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Some valid points in the earlier links but you might not want to cite info form a site that describes itself as
> 
> "[Return Of Kings is] a blog for heterosexual, masculine men. It’s meant for a small but vocal collection of men in America today who believe men should be masculine and women should be feminine." and weird incel ness: About – Return Of Kings


Whoops


----------



## SpamMisery (Dec 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Some valid points in the earlier links but you might not want to cite info form a site that describes itself as
> 
> "[Return Of Kings is] a blog for heterosexual, masculine men. It’s meant for a small but vocal collection of men in America today who believe men should be masculine and women should be feminine." and weird incel ness: About – Return Of Kings



Ahhaahaaa oh dear


----------



## snowy_again (Dec 14, 2018)

Anyway, let's not let one bad bit of googling stop an interesting conversation.


----------



## alcopop (Dec 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Some valid points in the earlier links but you might not want to cite info form a site that describes itself as
> 
> "[Return Of Kings is] a blog for heterosexual, masculine men. It’s meant for a small but vocal collection of men in America today who believe men should be masculine and women should be feminine." and weird incel ness: About – Return Of Kings


Haha

Hilarious

“Women and homosexuals are strongly discouraged from commenting here.” !!!!!


----------



## editor (Dec 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Some valid points in the earlier links but you might not want to cite info form a site that describes itself as
> 
> "[Return Of Kings is] a blog for heterosexual, masculine men. It’s meant for a small but vocal collection of men in America today who believe men should be masculine and women should be feminine." and weird incel ness: About – Return Of Kings


The author may be a tosspot, but it's a shame you chose to ignore the points made in that specific article. (I've deleted it now anyway). 

You may want to engage with the points raised in the other articles too, and there's plenty more to be found that raise serious concerns about the kind of cash-free society that the Crown and Anchor is trying to foist on its customers.


----------



## editor (Dec 14, 2018)

And in the hope that the usual suspects here can be actually bothered to engage with the topic, this make for interesting reading. 



> The central bank governor’s remarks are helping to bring other concerns about a cash-free society into the mainstream, says Björn Eriksson, 72, a former national police commissioner and the leader of a group called the Cash Rebellion, or Kontantupproret.
> 
> Until now, Kontantupproret has been dismissed as the voice of the elderly and the technologically backward, Eriksson says.
> 
> ...



'Being cash-free puts us at risk of attack': Swedes turn against cashlessness


----------



## snowy_again (Dec 14, 2018)

editor said:


> The author may be a tosspot, but it's a shame you chose to ignore the points made in that specific article. (I've deleted it now anyway).
> 
> You may want to engage with the points raised in the other articles too, and there's plenty more to be found that raise serious concerns about the kind of cash-free society that the Crown and Anchor is trying to foist on its customers.



You mean the bit where I said the other articles had some valid points? I think people were engaging in the topic - hence why we're 12 pages further in than we were a few days ago. 

Incidentally, did you actually read the Kings article beyond the opening Sweden quote? Aside from his rancid beliefs it was full of bat shit interpretations of the concept of currency as a medium for exchange, crazy conspiracy theories around government 'control' etc.


----------



## editor (Dec 14, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> You mean the bit where I said the other articles had some valid points? I think people were engaging in the topic - hence why we're 12 pages further in than we were a few days ago.
> 
> Incidentally, did you actually read the Kings article beyond the opening Sweden quote? Aside from his rancid beliefs it was full of bat shit interpretations of the concept of currency as a medium for exchange, crazy conspiracy theories around government 'control' etc.


As I've already stated, I've deleted that article, so I think we can move on to the many other links I've posted.

But for a bit of clarity here: am I the only one here who actually condemns - without reservation - the pub for making their customers use cards or else they can fuck off?

A simple yes or no will do from posters.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 14, 2018)

editor said:


> But for a bit of clarity here: am I the only one here who actually condemns - with reservation - the pub for making their customers use cards or else they can fuck off?
> 
> A simple yes or no will do from posters.



What do you think this will achieve ?


----------



## TruXta (Dec 14, 2018)

editor said:


> As I've already stated, I've deleted that article, so I think we can move on to the many other links I've posted.
> 
> But for a bit of clarity here: am I the only one here who actually condemns - without reservation - the pub for making their customers use cards or else they can fuck off?
> 
> A simple yes or no will do from posters.


Give over. You've had multiple posters state their position. Just read the thread if you've forgotten.


----------



## editor (Dec 14, 2018)

As expected, not a single direct answer to a simple, direct question.

And I asked because most of the responses have been along the lines of, "Well, maybe it's not a great idea, but, you know, bosses, it's the future, I've been on holiday in Sweden, look how easy it is to get a debit card, what about the clubs you play in?" and other such wriggling, non-committal fudging. And that's not the same as condemning anything. That's just making excuses.

So what's your take? Straight answer please.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 14, 2018)

editor said:


> As expected, not a single direct answer to a simple, direct question.
> 
> And I asked because most of the responses have been along the lines of, "Well, maybe it's not a great idea, but, you know, bosses, it's the future, I've been on holiday in Sweden, look how easy it is to get a debit card, what about the clubs you play in?" and other such wriggling, non-committal fudging. And that's not the same as condemning anything. That's just making excuses.
> 
> So what's your take? Straight answer please.



Its not rocket science....a public house should be open to the public, rules that make law abiding citizens feel unwelcome or that their lawful choices are wrong are a form of exclusion....how would those banging on about context view a dress restriction in an 'authentic pub 'on the grounds that reebok classics are a favourite shoe of burglars ?


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I'd much rather you read the articles I posted and discussed those, because that was what I was trying to achieve.  Rather than constantly bitching on the Crown and Anchor, which is a symptom rather than a cause (and also being aware that it has not been yourself that has driven the contempt towards them).



As I'm not "bitching" why bring this up in post directed at me?


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I think if you read one of the articles I posted (which I agree with) that it is a wider move from the banks/whomever else has a stake that the move to a cashless society is being driven with certain outcomes in mind.  And that yes, it excludes a minority of individuals in society as well as depriving people of choice.  Including myself.  Clear?  I agree with that and that it is not desirable.
> 
> A small business that has to turn a profit (large or small, otherwise they may not survive), or that has a particular clientele, or that has had certain issues with cash, may make a decision based on the information and experiences they have to move to a cashless payment system.  That does not necessarily mean they hold those that do not have debit cards in contempt.  That's not logical.  In a free market you may spend you money where you choose.  You may lose customers because of it - and no business has a right to survive (remember how Off The Cuff dumper their membership model when they realised it wasn't sustainable?)
> 
> ...



I asked you if anger should be directed at bankers.

Is it ok by you to direct anger at bankers for this forced move to cashless society?

Just trying to confirm what you have posted previously.

Simple yes or no answer will suffice.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 14, 2018)

discobastard said:


> In a free market you may spend you money where you choose.  You may lose customers because of it - and no business has a right to survive
> .



But if I read one aspect of what you say this move to cashless society is being taken by powerful elements in society , such as the banking industry, so small business like this pub are being pressured by forces outside their control.

Therefore one can't blame this particular pub. Am I correct?

So its not really a free market. The actors in it who don't have much social power ie small business and the ordinary consumer don't really have a say in this .

So its not in practice a "free market"


----------



## alex_ (Dec 14, 2018)

editor said:


> As expected, not a single direct answer to a simple, direct question.
> 
> And I asked because most of the responses have been along the lines of, "Well, maybe it's not a great idea, but, you know, bosses, it's the future, I've been on holiday in Sweden, look how easy it is to get a debit card, what about the clubs you play in?" and other such wriggling, non-committal fudging. And that's not the same as condemning anything. That's just making excuses.
> 
> So what's your take? Straight answer please.



Possibly because it’s completely pointless ?


----------



## TruXta (Dec 14, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> But if I read one aspect of what you say this move to cashless society is being taken by powerful elements in society , such as the banking industry, so small business like this pub are being pressured by forces outside their control.
> 
> Therefore one can't blame this particular pub. Am I correct?
> 
> ...


You can still blame the publican, it's his pub and he can choose what payment he will accept. Pressure here refers to pressure on profit, which is by definition surplus. The pub can go on if it breaks even.Thus he has a choice, even if a narrower one than that dictated by a fictional free market.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 15, 2018)

Staff seem to be outnumbering customers this afternoon.


----------



## editor (Dec 15, 2018)

TruXta said:


> You can still blame the publican, it's his pub and he can choose what payment he will accept. Pressure here refers to pressure on profit, which is by definition surplus. The pub can go on if it breaks even.Thus he has a choice, even if a narrower one than that dictated by a fictional free market.


I blame the owner. There may be all sort of mitigating circumstances, but ultimately he _chose_ to disenfranchise and exclude anyone who hasn't got - or doesn't want to use - a debit card in a society where cash is almost universally accepted everywhere.  And that's a mean, shitty thing to do.


----------



## editor (Dec 15, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Staff seem to be outnumbering customers this afternoon.


I'm not going there again.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 15, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm not going there again.



.....I wasn't in there, just passed by. wonder if it's cos a large chunk of the customer base has fcked off back to the Home Counties for the festive season


----------



## alex_ (Dec 15, 2018)

editor said:


> I blame the owner. There may be all sort of mitigating circumstances, but ultimately he _chose_ to disenfranchise and exclude anyone who hasn't got - or doesn't want to use - a debit card in a society where cash is almost universally accepted everywhere.  And that's a mean, shitty thing to do.



It’s his staff who have to deal with the aftermath of robberies.

Alex


----------



## SpamMisery (Dec 15, 2018)

It would be interesting to know how many who used to drink there now cannot as a result of the policy change


----------



## Badgers (Dec 15, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> It would be interesting to know how many who used to drink there now cannot as a result of the policy change


Not many knowing the clientele. Most people would have carded/contactless there. These days the main concern is does the pub take card.


----------



## editor (Dec 15, 2018)

alex_ said:


> It’s his staff who have to deal with the aftermath of robberies.
> 
> Alex


Dramatic words, but what "aftermath" exactly? And you're saying th venue's lack of adequate security is justification enough to exclude and disenfranchise some customers? 

Mind you, I have to applaud your latest attempt at an excuse. It's quite imaginative stuff. Those poor traumatised staff dealing with those beastly "aftermaths."


----------



## TruXta (Dec 15, 2018)

editor said:


> I blame the owner. There may be all sort of mitigating circumstances, but ultimately he _chose_ to disenfranchise and exclude anyone who hasn't got - or doesn't want to use - a debit card in a society where cash is almost universally accepted everywhere.  And that's a mean, shitty thing to do.


I sincerely doubt that he actively chose to fuck those people over, or that that was a significant factor. Not discounting it entirely  but it'd be a weird reason to choose to go cashless.


----------



## editor (Dec 15, 2018)

TruXta said:


> I sincerely doubt that he actively chose to fuck those people over, or that that was a significant factor. Not discounting it entirely  but it'd be a weird reason to choose to go cashless.


He knew that around one in ten of his customers preferred to pay in cash, but he made a conscious decision to exclude them. Which sucks.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 15, 2018)

editor said:


> He knew that around one in ten of his customers preferred to pay in cash, but he made a conscious decision to exclude them. Which sucks.


Where does that figure come from?


----------



## editor (Dec 15, 2018)

TruXta said:


> Where does that figure come from?


From the BBC article



> Mr Rozhaja, operations director at the pub's parent firm, London Village Inns, calculated the volume of cash transactions and was bowled over.
> 
> "Somewhere in the region of 10-13% of the total revenue would be cash and the rest was card," he says.
> 
> The bar where your cash is worthless


The thing I don't get is that he claims it went cash-only because of loads of cash being stolen - so how come every other pub doesn't have the same problem?


----------



## neonwilderness (Dec 15, 2018)

People paying by cash doesn’t mean that they can’t or won’t pay by card. I’m sure that applies to some, but I doubt it’s all of that 10-13%


----------



## TruXta (Dec 15, 2018)

editor said:


> From the BBC article
> 
> 
> The thing I don't get is that he claims it went cash-only because of loads of cash being stolen - so how come every other pub doesn't have the same problem?


Thanks. That's 10% of revenue, not customers btw.


----------



## editor (Dec 15, 2018)

neonwilderness said:


> People paying by cash doesn’t mean that they can’t or won’t pay by card. I’m sure that applies to some, but I doubt it’s all of that 10-13%


One thing is for sure: that choice has been taken away from customers.


----------



## editor (Dec 15, 2018)

TruXta said:


> Thanks. That's 10% of revenue, not customers btw.


It could still be the same thing, though. Or more. Or less!


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## TruXta (Dec 15, 2018)

editor said:


> It could still be the same thing, though. Or more. Or less!


Quite.


----------



## alcopop (Dec 15, 2018)

TruXta said:


> Quite.


Hilarious!!


----------



## TruXta (Dec 15, 2018)




----------



## SpamMisery (Dec 15, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Not many knowing the clientele. Most people would have carded/contactless there. These days the main concern is does the pub take card.



That's what I would have assumed from the few times I've been in. I'd be amazed if there was a single cardless customer in there. In fact, I reckon there would be more Apple Pay users than customers without bank cards


----------



## Rushy (Dec 15, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Not many knowing the clientele. Most people would have carded/contactless there. These days the main concern is does the pub take card.


Wohaaaa! Badgers? In the Brixton Forum? Well hello there! It's been a while...


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 15, 2018)

Reading these posts I still go back to what I posted a while back.

IMO if people want to pay by card or Apple pay good luck to them. What I object to is losing right to spend my hard earned money in the form I decide.

So far posts here have blamed the "context" such as banks, problems of bosses like robberies of business or making financial decisions on how its more financially efficient to go cashless.

None of this is my concern. I belong to the majority who don't own a business, aren't a banker. I sell my labour and use the money I get from that.

I live in a capitalist society so that's how it works.

At the very least I want to keep my right as a consumer to use cash if I want.

Is that so much to ask?

After all I thought living in a capitalist society was supposed to mean I can as a consumer choose what I buy and how. Or did I get this wrong? I thought development of capitalist society was supposed to give greater freedom and choice not less?


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 15, 2018)

To add. Was listening to World Service late last night. China is testing out something called Social Credit. Will use a combination of private credit agencies who will share info on individuals with government and government own info on what is labelled bad behaviour.

This will add up to a Social Credit score. If the pilot projects work will be rolled out for every citizen. 

This is apparently practicably possible now to do.


----------



## editor (Dec 15, 2018)

TruXta said:


>


He's banned off the thread now.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 15, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Reading these posts I still go back to what I posted a while back.
> 
> IMO if people want to pay by card or Apple pay good luck to them. What I object to is losing right to spend my hard earned money in the form I decide.
> 
> ...



I can't see how anyone would disagree with what Gramsci says, and the same freedom of choice should apply to everyone. If  a person drinks in a pub once a week, or a fortnight or even monthly and only drinks a pint each time, denying them service because they like to deal in cash for whatever reason is infringing their human rights. Management has no right to dictate to them because the human interaction that takes place could be critical for that persons mental health, especially in the present time when isolation/loneliness  is an increasing problem and  if that interaction is taken away then they could end up drinking a four pack or a cheap bottle of wine indoors alone with dire consequences.


----------



## ricbake (Dec 15, 2018)

Attitudes have fluctuated since 2012 but the pub is essentially the same. Cheapest beer available is the excellent Oakham Citra only £4 a pint, I resent cashless only because every pint shows on my card statement... but it isn't a problem to me or as far as I can see anyone else who comes to drink there. When people are caught without a card, I and others have offered to take the cash and pay by card for them - it doesn't happen much or appear to cause anyone issues.

We live in a big city and modern banking with cashless transactions are part of it, it is possible to get a contactless card to pre-load with funds to be able to access the services and products only available for those with this facility. But discounts available via direct debit and credit cards etc can save such substantial sums on purchases and essential services it really is worth getting access to banking if you can.

From this thread May 2012


editor said:


> The pub was falling apart and soon to join the growing list of closed pubs in Brixton. A group of people pooled their resources together to save the pub and provide something that had a real prospect of staying open and serving the area.
> 
> It's almost impossible for small independent boozers to compete with the big breweries on discount pricing, but with the cheapest ale priced at £3.30, a sit down with half a pint is hardly beyond the financial realms of most folks.
> 
> Instead of digging up four year old comments about yuppification to have a sneer at the place, I'm just happy it's still there for the local community to enjoy.



I've been drinking regularly in the C&A since 2012, it has been through a number of different managers and the current one is excellent, hard working and a truly nice person. The beer is kept well, the food is decent, the staff on the whole are good, some of them have been there a long time. It caters very well for the very many regular clientele and all those who travel to it for the still excellent array of cask ales, ciders and huge choice of other beers.

The switch to cashless I think may relate to thefts and came after the departure of an assistant manager and rumours of stock control issues.
Martin and his London Village Inns are a business running 4 old victorian pubs which may well have closed if not invested in by them. They are decent people but they do inevitably consider the bottom line as does any business, they capitalise where they can. Their offering suits their customers


----------



## teuchter (Dec 15, 2018)

I reject the concept of bank notes and other monetary tokens on ideological grounds. My preferred method to obtain drinks in public houses is by means of barter and I offer my professional services to the public house management for a time period that reflects the proposed sterling price of the drink divided by my normal hourly rate. I find that my human rights are frequently infringed by refusals.


----------



## ricbake (Dec 15, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I reject the concept of bank notes and other monetary tokens on ideological grounds. My preferred method to obtain drinks in public houses is by means of barter and I offer my professional services to the public house management for a time period that reflects the proposed sterling price of the drink divided by my normal hourly rate. I find that my human rights are frequently infringed by refusals.


So you wash up and collect glasses?


----------



## TruXta (Dec 15, 2018)

Yeah I remember why I stopped posting in the Brixton forum now.


----------



## Ms T (Dec 15, 2018)

Every time I pay by cash in a pub the bar tender is surprised and I feel like a dinosaur.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Dec 15, 2018)

Ms T said:


> Every time I pay by cash in a pub the bar tender is surprised and I feel like a dinosaur.



This is how I felt when I tried to pay with my glasses with cash recently. They only take card and I'd taken the money out specially


----------



## Ms T (Dec 15, 2018)

Thimble Queen said:


> This is how I felt when I tried to pay with my glasses with cash recently. They only take card and I'd taken the money out specially


They always present me with the card machine automatically and look amazed when I hand over my cash!


----------



## Thimble Queen (Dec 15, 2018)

Ms T said:


> They always present me with the card machine automatically and look amazed when I hand over my cash!



The young people at my work are very cross that most independent businesses including many bars don't take card. It seems the total opposite of the London in that regard.


----------



## CH1 (Dec 16, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> To add. Was listening to World Service late last night. China is testing out something called Social Credit. Will use a combination of private credit agencies who will share info on individuals with government and government own info on what is labelled bad behaviour.
> 
> This will add up to a Social Credit score. If the pilot projects work will be rolled out for every citizen.
> 
> This is apparently practicably possible now to do.


China is beginning to shape up to an Orwell 1984 situation.

Chinese head of Interpol recalled to China and disappears.

When Trump/US use Canadian courts to put pressure on Huawei heiress, placing her effectively on house arrest, China retaliates by "disappearing" two Canadian businessmen allegedly on spying charges.

Obviously the Trump administration is hyping up their dispute with China, but it is still the case that China essentially has little protection for individuals along the lines of habeus corpus.

In a way the Chinese preoccupation with social credit scores seems to me rather like the Esther McVey/IDS preoccupation with Universal Credit as a means of "helping people into work" by starving them into submission!


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 16, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I reject the concept of bank notes and other monetary tokens on ideological grounds. My preferred method to obtain drinks in public houses is by means of barter and I offer my professional services to the public house management for a time period that reflects the proposed sterling price of the drink divided by my normal hourly rate. I find that my human rights are frequently infringed by refusals.


I'm guessing this post is referring to my earlier one because of the reference to human rights, I am surprised you think this is a topic for snide satirical piss takes.....does your joviality also a extend to mental health generally and the idea of isolation and loneliness among the marginalised victims of a gentrifying city as well ?


----------



## CH1 (Dec 16, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I reject the concept of bank notes and other monetary tokens on ideological grounds. My preferred method to obtain drinks in public houses is by means of barter and I offer my professional services to the public house management for a time period that reflects the proposed sterling price of the drink divided by my normal hourly rate. I find that my human rights are frequently infringed by refusals.


Surely being Scottish you hang around until someone else buys the round?


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 16, 2018)

ricbake said:


> The switch to cashless I think may relate to thefts and came after the departure of an assistant manager and rumours of stock control issues.


Seriously......You seem to be suggesting that the tea leafing that prompted the change to cashless was in fact an inside job


----------



## ricbake (Dec 16, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Seriously......You seem to be suggesting that the tea leafing that prompted the change to cashless was in fact an inside job


Gossip and rumour....


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 16, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I reject the concept of bank notes and other monetary tokens on ideological grounds. My preferred method to obtain drinks in public houses is by means of barter and I offer my professional services to the public house management for a time period that reflects the proposed sterling price of the drink divided by my normal hourly rate. I find that my human rights are frequently infringed by refusals.



I take it from your sarcastic post you don't believe consumers paying for a service in a free market capitalist society should have right to pay by cash? This should be up to largesse of what the banking industry and business owners find is most convenient from them?


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 16, 2018)

ricbake said:


> The switch to cashless I think may relate to thefts and came after the departure of an assistant manager and rumours of stock control issues.



So this isn't about caring for staff who are held up by robbers. 

Its about, allegations, that staff having been putting their fingers in the till?

Why should I as a consumer have to have my right to pay by cash taken away due to that?


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 16, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Gossip and rumour....



You posted it up. Why did you post it up?


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 16, 2018)

So another reason for a move to cashless society is to stop the temptation of the employee to get a little extra from the till. What a great idea.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 16, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> So this isn't about caring for staff who are held up by robbers.
> 
> Its about, allegations, that staff having been putting their fingers in the till?
> 
> Why should I as a consumer have to have my right to pay by cash taken away due to that?


There is no legal right to pay with cash anywhere in the UK as far as I know.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 16, 2018)

TruXta said:


> There is no legal right to pay with cash anywhere in the UK as far as I know.



Which is wrong imo. If that is the case. Im not sure if it is.

I think its reasonable to suggest this should be a consumer right.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I take it from your sarcastic post you don't believe consumers paying for a service in a free market capitalist society should have right to pay by cash?


Correct. Some services yes. Crap pubs in Clapham no.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 16, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Correct. Some services yes. Crap pubs in Clapham no.



So sarcastic as to be beyond sarcasm.

Your taking it to a higher level.


----------



## CH1 (Dec 16, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> So another reason for a move to cashless society is to stop the temptation of the employee to get a little extra from the till. What a great idea.


I don't know if you  noticed, but Wetherspoon pubs generally charge x.99 or x.15 and so on so that staff have to go to the till with your money (to get change). Someone once said that the CCTV cameras in Wetherspoons are trained on the staff!


----------



## TruXta (Dec 16, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Which is wrong imo. If that is the case. Im not sure if it is.
> 
> I think its reasonable to suggest this should be a consumer right.


Maybe. Can't see it happening.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I don't know if you  noticed, but Wetherspoon pubs generally charge x.99 or x.15 and so on so that staff have to go to the till with your money (to get change). Someone once said that the CCTV cameras in Wetherspoons are trained on the staff!


Loads of bars and clubs have CCTV cameras fitted to monitor both the staff and the till.


----------



## ricbake (Dec 17, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> You posted it up. Why did you post it up?


Talk in the bar nothing proven but perhaps relevant...



Gramsci said:


> So another reason for a move to cashless society is to stop the temptation of the employee to get a little extra from the till. What a great idea.



Stealing from your employer - What a great idea!	How much is "a little extra"?


----------



## Mr Retro (Dec 17, 2018)

ricbake said:


> Talk in the bar nothing proven but perhaps relevant...
> 
> Stealing from your employer - What a great idea!	How much is "a little extra"?


Generally of the hardest things running a bar is finding honest staff.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 17, 2018)

TruXta said:


> There is no legal right to pay with cash anywhere in the UK as far as I know.



There isn't no. As long as it's not due a protected characteristic a business can refuse to deal with whoever, for whatever reason they like. 

The exception would be settlement of a legally recognised debt iirc.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2018)

Perhaps the solution is to get the pint in your grasp before they come over with the card machine. Then drink it quite quickly at which point it becomes a debt which you are only able to settle in cash.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Generally of the hardest things running a bar is finding honest staff.


Wow. Spoken like a true boss, full of disdain for their low paid staff. I know plenty of honest bar staff.


----------



## NoXion (Dec 17, 2018)

Unless the credit and debit card companies start offering free or reduced-rate services to small businesses, which often have an additional charge for card payments below a certain amount, then I'm not too worried about masses of people without a credit or debit card being excluded from their usual commerce venues. Apparently there are only two pubs in the entire country that only accept cards.

From my experience, where a lack of a proper debit card really hurts is that it limits your options in terms of where you can withdraw your money, how you can pay for things online, and paying for goods and services that aren't typically found on the local high street. Costs are higher when you have to resort the expensive and/or crappy selections from brick-and-mortar establishments.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 17, 2018)

editor said:


> Wow. Spoken like a true boss, full of disdain for their low paid staff. I know plenty of honest bar staff.


It would cut down on a lot of potential dishonesty if we did away with the risky human element altogether and just had robotic dispensers.....


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> It would cut down on a lot of potential dishonesty if we did away with the risky human element altogether and just had robotic dispensers.....


Think of the EXTRA PROFITS!


----------



## marty21 (Dec 17, 2018)

NoXion said:


> Apparently there are only two pubs in the entire country that only accept cards.



The owner of the Crown has 3 others pubs in London which only take cards , I doubt he's the only Landlord in the country to have done this .


----------



## NoXion (Dec 17, 2018)

marty21 said:


> The owner of the Crown has 3 others pubs in London which only take cards , I doubt he's the only Landlord in the country to have done this .



Fair enough, but to be honest it sounds like the kind of thing that doesn't happen much outside London. In fact I would expect the opposite to be the case; one of my local pubs takes cash only.


----------



## Mr Retro (Dec 17, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> It would cut down on a lot of potential dishonesty if we did away with the risky human element altogether and just had robotic dispensers.....


I think people like to interact with a real person behind the bar. Once that person isn’t suffering from sticky finger syndrome everybody can be happy


----------



## alex_ (Dec 17, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Perhaps the solution is to get the pint in your grasp before they come over with the card machine. Then drink it quite quickly at which point it becomes a debt which you are only able to settle in cash.



Which editor feels they will be honour bound to refuse, as per up thread.

I suspect they will probably take your cash after all.

Alex


----------



## alex_ (Dec 17, 2018)

NoXion said:


> Fair enough, but to be honest it sounds like the kind of thing that doesn't happen much outside London. In fact I would expect the opposite to be the case; one of my local pubs takes cash only.



Scab barmen ?


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Which editor feels they will be honour bound to refuse, as per up thread.
> 
> I suspect they will probably take your cash after all.
> 
> Alex


So the posters they put up around the pub and the text they have in BOLD AND IN CAPS on their website as just for show?  Makes you wonder why they bothered.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> I think people like to interact with a real person behind the bar. Once that person isn’t suffering from sticky finger syndrome everybody can be happy


And there you go again, suggesting that bar staff are always stealing. How come you never ever mention the landlords? There's plenty of them who have had their fat fingers in the till, and they tend to steal a shitload more. 

The man who stole Christmas: Pub landlord vanishes with £30k from regulars' savings club
Guisborough landlord Paul Mash cheated thousands from charity pub quizzes


----------



## Mr Retro (Dec 17, 2018)

Bar Owner: As you are low paid please feel free to take a little extra from the till. 
Plain People of Urban 75: What a good boss. 
Bar Owner: I am not making enough money to pay suppliers and now I must close down. 
Plain People of Urban 75: Another bar closure. Yuppies are to blame.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Bar Owner: As you are low paid please feel free to take a little extra from the till.
> Plain People of Urban 75: What a good boss.
> Bar Owner: I am not making enough money to pay suppliers and now I must close down.
> Plain People of Urban 75: Another bar closure. Yuppies are to blame.


I've never suggested that bar staff should be allowed to take a penny from the till so I've no idea why you're posting up this pile of manufactured bullshit in response to my post. Who the fuck are the "Plain People of Urban75," anyway? Name names, please. 

But do tell us about the filthy stealing bar staff again.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 17, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> I think people like to interact with a real person behind the bar. Once that person isn’t suffering from sticky finger syndrome everybody can be happy


Apologies for not making it obvious I was exaggerating to make a point....
Nonetheless there is a serious point here because technology is going to make
a lot of jobs obsolete in the not too distant future, and
that could be quite bad for a big chunk of humankind
Given the way peeps are swallowing the card only arguments I doubt there will be much opposition


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Given the way peeps are swallowing the card only arguments I doubt there will be much opposition


Well_ some_ people here are making their opposition to card-only policies very strongly indeed! 

But you're right - the total lack of meaningful opposition and collective shrugging of shoulders is quite depressing to witness on a board that has always been left leaning.

I asked if anyone would post up their unreserved condemnation of this pub's card-only policy and only got excuses, distracting tosh and quibbles in return.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Dec 17, 2018)

I'm horrified to hear they don't take cash, makes me terribly old fashioned - though I find the arguments above is tedious. 

A lot of people don't have bank accounts / can't open bank accounts - just checked in 2016 it was 1.6million people, it's financial exclusion.  Now it's exclusion from the local pub too, which is terrible shame for some already excluded people. 

I used to quite like the crown and anchor because of the real beer, though its a bit of a trek for me. I'm not sure how I feel about the place now - it puts me off going there.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> I'm horrified to hear they don't take cash, makes me terribly old fashioned - though I find the arguments above is tedious.
> 
> A lot of people don't have bank accounts / can't open bank accounts - just checked in 2016 it was 1.6million people, it's financial exclusion.  Now it's exclusion from the local pub too, which is terrible shame for some already excluded people.
> 
> I used to quite like the crown and anchor because of the real beer, though its a bit of a trek for me. I'm not sure how I feel about the place now - it puts me off going there.



You don't need a bank account to have a contactless card, as I understand it. You can get pay-as-you-go type cards. Can't say I'll mourn the disappearance of cash (is it inevitable? I dont know) any more than I did cheques.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Dec 17, 2018)

teuchter said:


> You don't need a bank account to have a contactless card, as I understand it. You can get pay-as-you-go type cards. Can't say I'll mourn the disappearance of cash (is it inevitable? I dont know) any more than I did cheques.


cheques haven't entirely disappeared - as there are still a lot of older / blind / disabled people who are unable to use on line banking / cards,  who still use cheques.

Contactless cards do present problems for some blind / disabled people too - so the pub is excluding them too, which may not be legal under the equality act.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> cheques haven't entirely disappeared - as there are still a lot of older / blind / disabled people who are unable to use on line banking / cards,  who still use cheques.
> 
> Contactless cards do present problems for some blind / disabled people too - so the pub is excluding them too, which may not be legal under the equality act.



There will of course always be a transition period where some people do not feel willing or able to move to new technologies, which is fair enough, and their needs should be considered, but in the longer term I see no reason for a cashless system to be intrinsically less convenient for those with disabilities including visual impairments.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Dec 17, 2018)

teuchter said:


> There will of course always be a transition period where some people do not feel willing or able to move to new technologies, which is fair enough, and their needs should be considered, but in the longer term I see no reason for a cashless system to be intrinsically less convenient for those with disabilities including visual impairments.


no reason at all - but at the moment it excludes some older, disabled and poorer people. 

I prefer pubs that are inclusive not exclusive.


----------



## passenger (Dec 17, 2018)

Drinking some of the Stella Artois cans  I got for  santa`s  arrival..


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> no reason at all - but at the moment it excludes some older, disabled and poorer people.
> 
> I prefer pubs that are inclusive not exclusive.



Well, in the list of things that can exclude older/disabled/poorer people from pubs, I don't see card payment as a big one.

If we found ourselves in the situation where there were very few pubs where you could pay in cash, then it would be a bigger deal. I think that pubs that tend to serve the demographic who want to pay in cash will continue to accept cash for some time.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Dec 17, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Well, in the list of things that can exclude older/disabled/poorer people from pubs, I don't see card payment as a big one.
> 
> If we found ourselves in the situation where there were very few pubs where you could pay in cash, then it would be a bigger deal. I think that pubs that tend to serve the demographic who want to pay in cash will continue to accept cash for some time.


 well there's also steps/ access problems and the loos being really wheelchair accessible and not stacked with unused furniture. And bloody awful loud music.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 17, 2018)

teuchter said:


> There will of course always be a transition period where some people do not feel willing or able to move to new technologies, which is fair enough, and their needs should be considered, but in the longer term I see no reason for a cashless system to be intrinsically less convenient for those with disabilities including visual impairments.



In whose interests are these new technologies for?

So far from this thread its combination of the state and business? 

Not consumers?


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 17, 2018)

teuchter said:


> You don't need a bank account to have a contactless card, as I understand it. You can get pay-as-you-go type cards. Can't say I'll mourn the disappearance of cash (is it inevitable? I dont know) any more than I did cheques.



Pay as you go cards are limited. 

I know person who has one. He can use it to get payments for work. But has limited use for it as card. He can at very limited places withdraw money. But that is it.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 17, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Bar Owner: As you are low paid please feel free to take a little extra from the till.
> Plain People of Urban 75: What a good boss.
> Bar Owner: I am not making enough money to pay suppliers and now I must close down.
> Plain People of Urban 75: Another bar closure. Yuppies are to blame.



Spoken like a true business man. 

You are obnoxious right winger presenting yourself as fair minded. 

Hypocrite.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 17, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> cheques haven't entirely disappeared - as there are still a lot of older / blind / disabled people who are unable to use on line banking / cards,  who still use cheques.
> 
> Contactless cards do present problems for some blind / disabled people too - so the pub is excluding them too, which may not be legal under the equality act.



Good point. The advocates of employer/ State imposition of cashless society as stopping fraud don't see this.

Someone with sight impairment will not be able to see easily money put into card transaction.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 17, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> Bar Owner: As you are low paid please feel free to take a little extra from the till.
> Plain People of Urban 75: What a good boss.
> Bar Owner: I am not making enough money to pay suppliers and now I must close down.
> Plain People of Urban 75: Another bar closure. Yuppies are to blame.



Who are these "plain people"?

Pleaae explain.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 17, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Well, in the list of things that can exclude older/disabled/poorer people from pubs, I don't see card payment as a big one.
> 
> If we found ourselves in the situation where there were very few pubs where you could pay in cash, then it would be a bigger deal. I think that pubs that tend to serve the demographic who want to pay in cash will continue to accept cash for some time.



So in your opinion as most places accept cash this is not an issue.

Looking at China for example which I have posted up about.

Its technolicy possible to give people social credit scores now. In China its leap frogged cash. Many use cashless payments.

Chinese government have wised up on on that and seen its possible way to keep tabs on citizens. 

Are you happy with that?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> In whose interests are these new technologies for?
> 
> So far from this thread its combination of the state and business?
> 
> Not consumers?



Contactless cards make my life easier. Cash is a pain. I realise not everyone will feel the same.

I would probably prefer in the longer term to retain some method of paying for things without it being immediately traceable. Cash can serve that purpose now. So, I think can payment cards that don't require an account or sign-up. I can see why some people might be uncomfortable with losing the cash option.


----------



## CH1 (Dec 17, 2018)

I was moved to purchase a pint of Camden Hells lager on my Co-op credit card this evening at the newly refurbished Two Brewers in Clapham High Street.
Not that I normally buy beer on credit - but the £5.75 price tag knocked me back on my heels.

The bar person helpfully commented that I could have Kronenberg or Carling on a "happy hour" tariff, but as a real ale drinker this option was rather repellent.

I should just say I was in the Two Brewers following a group visit to the Oscar Wilde Temple on the opposite side of the road. The Two Brewers and Oscar Wilde kind of seemed a natural fit - until the choice of beers at the bar.

I used to go in the Two Brewers a lot in the 1980s, but the last time I was in there was probably 1997 when I saw the late Regina Fong, who somehow beat me to the Brewers from her appearance at a stage show at the Criterion at Piccadilly Circus immediately before.

I was impressed by the cleanliness of the new upstair gents, which have a nice Victorian fireplace just outside. There's a large mirror above the mantlepiece to help powder one's nose. How come the fireplace is still there, and wasn't sold off to an architectural salvage merchant? The cavernous space lined with aluminium urinal troughs made me wonder why they need enough space for 20 people to pee simultaneously?

The Camden Hells lager was OK by the way.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 18, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> In whose interests are these new technologies for?
> 
> So far from this thread its combination of the state and business?
> 
> Not consumers?



It’s very clear that this guy is doing it to reduce costs, so yes - consumers.

Alex


----------



## TruXta (Dec 18, 2018)

alex_ said:


> It’s very clear that this guy is doing it to reduce costs, so yes - consumers.
> 
> Alex


Of course he would never consider trousering the difference, no sir!


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2018)

alex_ said:


> It’s very clear that this guy is doing it to reduce costs, so yes - consumers.
> 
> Alex


So why won't you condemn a boss who is intentionally disenfranchising some of his customers - most likely the poorest ones - just so he can make more profit for himself?  Or is that the kind of capitalism you like?


----------



## CH1 (Dec 18, 2018)

editor said:


> So why won't you condemn a boss who is intentionally disenfranchising some of his customers - most likely the poorest ones - just so he can make more profit for himself?  Or is that the kind of capitalism you like?


I appreciate this thread is supposed to be about the Crown and Anchor - but as it has now diversified to cover commercial exploitation and dubious business methods I feel moved to offer another comment about the Two Brewers.

Their re-opening after an alleged £250,000 revamp was trailed in the Evening Standard LGBTQ+ bar The Two Brewers is reopening this weekend

What I didn't know - and only became apparent after a bit of deep Googling, is that the Two Brewers is part of the Stonegate Pub Company chain, which also includes Slug and Lettuce and Yates's.

Guess where they are registered : Codan Trust Company (cayman) Limited, PO Box 2681, Cricket Square, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands, KY1 1111
STONEGATE PUB COMPANY LIMITED - Overview (free company information from Companies House)

Things have come a long was since they gave away free roast potatoes on a Sunday lunchtime in the 1980s.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Dec 18, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Cash is a pain.


I could take it off your hands for you, if you like.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 18, 2018)

teuchter said:


> If we found ourselves in the situation where _there were very few pubs where you could pay in cash,_ then it would be a bigger deal. I think that pubs that tend to serve the demographic who want to pay in cash will continue to accept cash for some time.


Considering the dearth of pubs in the area served by the one we are discussing would you be willing to concede that as they operate a virtual monopoly, [unless one wants to trek down to the Oval or up to Brixton,] they should do their best to acomodate all potential customers no matter how eccentric or outmoded their preferences when it comes to payment methods ?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 18, 2018)

cuppa tee said:


> Considering the dearth of pubs in the area served by the one we are discussing would you be willing to concede that as they operate a virtual monopoly, [unless one wants to trek down to the Oval or up to Brixton,] they should do their best to acomodate all potential customers no matter how eccentric or outmoded their preferences when it comes to payment methods ?


I have to confess, I had mixed the Crown and Anchor up with the Hope and Anchor and had thought this discussion was referring to the latter.

I would concede that it would be preferable if they were to take cash, and I think they should be allowed to refuse more eccentric methods.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 18, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I have to confess, I had mixed the Crown and Anchor up with the Hope and Anchor and had thought this discussion was referring to the latter.
> 
> I would concede that it would be preferable if they were to take cash, and I think they should be allowed to refuse more eccentric methods.



There was a pub in Hackney that allowed you to pay in Bitcoin  The Pembury Tavern I think,  it's no longer the case as the Bitcoin accepting owners have now sold up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 18, 2018)

marty21 said:


> There was a pub in Hackney that allowed you to pay in Bitcoin  The Pembury Tavern I think,  it's no longer the case as the Bitcoin accepting owners have now sold up.


apparently the pizza there very good


----------



## TruXta (Dec 18, 2018)

How many pints would a male fertile goat buy me?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Dec 18, 2018)

Last time I went the C & A pub it was mostly younger people in there, but not so bad as to make me feel like everone's gran.  Perhaps this is the owners way of making us old farts with our old fashioned paper money feel even less welcome.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 18, 2018)

editor said:


> So why won't you condemn a boss who is intentionally disenfranchising some of his customers - most likely the poorest ones - just so he can make more profit for himself?  Or is that the kind of capitalism you like?


Have you actually been in there much?


----------



## marty21 (Dec 18, 2018)

friendofdorothy said:


> Last time I went the C & A pub it was mostly younger people in there, but not so bad as to make me feel like everone's gran.  Perhaps this is the owners way of making us old farts with our old fashioned paper money feel even less welcome.


I'm an old fart and I pay in cash or card , but mostly card nowadays.


----------



## cuppa tee (Dec 18, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I have to confess, I had mixed the Crown and Anchor up with the Hope and Anchor and had thought this discussion was referring to the latter.
> 
> I would concede that it would be preferable if they were to take cash, and I think they should be allowed to refuse more eccentric methods.


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Have you actually been in there much?


I've been there a couple of times in the last year and my mate works there. How does that relate to the question I asked? 

But how do you feel about a card only policy, particularly in light of the points raised in the article below? 



> According to the Financial Inclusion Commission, 1.5 million adults in the UK do not have a bank account – some, like recently arrived immigrants, because they lack the paperwork to open one. More than half of the 2.7 million people who rely mainly on cash have a household income of less than £15,000. They are being increasingly penalised as the best deals for utilities, telecoms and even train tickets are only available online to cardholders, while universal credit will only be transferred to a bank or building society account, without the previous option of cash cheques redeemable at post offices. And whereas before the ban on card surcharges only customers who chose to pay with plastic bore the cost of the transaction, now the poorest and the unbanked have to share the bill.





> “Given a choice, millions of us will continue to use cash for decades to come, but Visa and Mastercard are determined to take that option away,” Clarke says. “Banks and card companies stand to make greater profits if cash disappears and their moves to slash funding for the cash network have seen machines close at an alarming pace. With cash gone, Visa and Mastercard’s stranglehold would intensify, leaving them free to hike charges on our day-to-day payments.”


The rise of cashless Britain: the poor suffer as banks and ATMs are closed


----------



## snowy_again (Dec 18, 2018)

Transact are a bit better that the FIC - there's a more indepth geographical and segmented analysis on financial exclusion here:

https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/app/uploads/2014/08/Financial-exclusion.pdf - the report's a bit old (2014), which covers the additional "poverty premium" of not having access to online financial services and explores the options around universal banking (but not the issue that some people may choose to be cash only). Alas no mention of brixton pubs.

And a link to the London Mutual Credit Union (Lambeth has a branch) which offers CU (not bank) accounts: FAQs | London Mutual Credit Union and is more accessible than most. Notwithstanding those recently arrived migrants / asylum seekers, people without documentation etc.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 18, 2018)

editor said:


> So why won't you condemn a boss who is intentionally disenfranchising some of his customers - most likely the poorest ones - just so he can make more profit for himself?  Or is that the kind of capitalism you like?



Because it’s pathetic, I condemn Assad and trump not blokes who decide not to take cash in pubs.

Demanding people condemn minor actions is daily express style idiocy.

And it’s shooting the messager, the government needs to make bank accounts more accessible.

Alex


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Because it’s pathetic, I condemn Assad and trump not blokes who decide not to take cash in pubs.
> 
> Demanding people condemn minor actions is daily express style idiocy.
> 
> ...


Ah right. So it's  'idiocy' to stand up for people on a local community scale? And not only do you not give a shit unless it's a global issue, you'll patronise, put down and insult anyone who does show concern because "it's pathetic."

This is the Thatcherite, "there's no thing such as society" line in action. Except if enough people voiced their approval in multiple ways, policies like this - which encourage social exclusion - can get reversed.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 18, 2018)

editor said:


> This is the Thatcherite, "there's no thing such as society" line in action.



Ah yes, if you disagree with me you are a Tory.

The urban equiv of Godwin’s law.

Alex


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## alex_ (Dec 18, 2018)

editor said:


> Ah right. So it's  'idiocy' to stand up for people on a local community scale? And not only do you not give a shit unless it's a global issue, you'll patronise, put down and insult anyone who does show concern because "it's pathetic.".



“Oh no, some people on the internet are angry with me” 

Great support for the community.


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## editor (Dec 18, 2018)

alex_ said:


> “Oh no, some people on the internet are angry with me”
> 
> Great support for the community.


If you don't think social media can have a very meaningful impact on businesses in the real world, I'm afraid you're a bit out of touch.

But despite your efforts to belittle anyone making valid criticisms, I'll never subscribe to your selfish attitude which seems to be best summed up as, "Let the bosses disenfranchise and exclude members of my own community as I can't be fucking arsed to care or do anything to support them. Because Trump."


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## alex_ (Dec 18, 2018)

editor said:


> If you don't think social media can have a very meaningful impact on businesses in the real world, I'm afraid you're a bit out of touch.



Pretty sure this isn’t social media



editor said:


> But despite your efforts to belittle anyone making valid criticisms



How dare I steal from your playbook.


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## editor (Dec 18, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Pretty sure this isn’t social media.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

And here's a new article on the BBC which mentions the Crown and Anchor...

Millions 'will suffer without cash'


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 19, 2018)

I've found myself using my card more and more of late, although I dislike that every pint rings up on my bank account.

I was in a pub in Northampton this week that still wouldn't take a card for payments under a fiver. Given that most pints in NH are under £4 that's a bit daft, but not a problem because I always carry at least £20 in cash with me at all times.

There are lots of people who rely on cash still for all sorts of reasons (some mentioned in the BBC article and discussed quite a bit this morning on the bbc) and a 'cashless society' would exclude them and make it difficult for them (and many of them already feel excluded and have difficulties in their lives already).

Whatever the reasons the C&A are giving it basically comes to down to the removal of choice for their customers, and it does mean some people won't be able to use the pub any longer, and that does suck. The owner has made that decision for their own benefit, and not with customers in mind at all, so it feels like a selfish thing to do, but I am sure they are not too fussed about what I think, or that I won't be going there for a drink.

The research that informed the BBC article was commissioned by the European ATM Industry Association, so they have a vested interest in cash.

As for me, I'm just a punter and I like to be able to choose how I pay (especially this week as I get paid tomorrow and I have £50 in my wallet, and nothing in my bank, so a card only pub is no good to me in this situation).


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## teuchter (Dec 19, 2018)

It's not like the current cash system is without its disadvantages. It's fairly well known that low income (and rural) areas tend to have a much worse provision of free ATMs. For those who are on low income but do have a card then a cashless system could be better, if it ends reliance on fee-charging ATMs and also the business of minimum spends on cards.
While for now I can see the argument for discouraging places to go cash free, in the longer term the solution surely is to demand better access to banking rather than trying to sort out the problem by focussing blame on businesses that make decisions about payment systems based on what the costs are to them of the various options.
If we're going to condemn cards-only businesses then we should also condemn cash-only businesses or those with minimum spends because they also have the potential to exclude folk on low income. How often do you see a fee-charging ATM a few doors down from a pub? They quite clearly make money off people who rely on cash and find that if they want another pint, they either have to walk miles to get to a free ATM, pay for a whole round to get over the spend limit, or go round the corner to be charged £1.25 to withdraw a tenner.


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## SpamMisery (Dec 19, 2018)

I find the real benefit of card is the ability to monitor and, importantly, modify spending habits. If you gave me £1000 in cash today, I'd probably accurately state where I spent about half of it.


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## Rushy (Dec 19, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> I find the real benefit of card is the ability to monitor and, importantly, modify spending habits. If you gave me £1000 in cash today, I'd probably accurately state where I spent about half of it.


Barclays (I think) has brought out a new service which allows card holders to block payments for certain things on their cards e.g. Pubs and gambling.


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## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Whatever the reasons the C&A are giving it basically comes to down to the removal of choice for their customers, and it does mean some people won't be able to use the pub any longer, and that does suck. The owner has made that decision for their own benefit, and not with customers in mind at all, so it feels like a selfish thing to do, but I am sure they are not too fussed about what I think, or that I won't be going there for a drink.


Yep. I won't be going there either. But I'm sure there'll be plenty of people here providing endless excuses why the boss's decision doesn't suck, despite the clear evidence that it will affect some people negatively.


----------



## CH1 (Dec 19, 2018)

editor said:


> And here's a new article on the BBC which mentions the Crown and Anchor...
> 
> Millions 'will suffer without cash'


A propos of nothing it looks like the proprietor of the Crown and Anchor is Croatian. Croatia held a referendum about acceding to the EU on 22 January 2012, and they were admitted on 1st July 2013.

The Croatians (and the EU) don't muck about when it comes to business.

(alex_ This is Godwin's Law 2018 style)


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## CH1 (Dec 19, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> I find the real benefit of card is the ability to monitor and, importantly, modify spending habits. If you gave me £1000 in cash today, I'd probably accurately state where I spent about half of it.


I agree it helps you monitor where the money has gone, after the event.
But surely you are not suggesting that - for example - a gambling addict would be better off going to a Fixed Odds Betting Terminal armed with a credit or debit card rather than cash?


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## SpamMisery (Dec 19, 2018)

No


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## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I agree it helps you monitor where the money has gone, after the event.
> But surely you are not suggesting that - for example - a gambling addict would be better off going to a Fixed Odds Betting Terminal armed with a credit or debit card rather than cash?


There's plenty of research that shows that credit cards encourage extra spending. But of course, that suits the landlord just dandy. 

Credit Cards Encourage Extra Spending as the Cash Habit Fades Away
Do People Really Spend More With Credit Cards?
One Of The Biggest Reasons You Overspend Is Already In Your Wallet


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## 19sixtysix (Dec 19, 2018)

editor said:


> There's plenty of research that shows that credit cards encourage extra spending. But of course, that suits the landlord just dandy.
> 
> Credit Cards Encourage Extra Spending as the Cash Habit Fades Away
> Do People Really Spend More With Credit Cards?
> One Of The Biggest Reasons You Overspend Is Already In Your Wallet



Tis true especially last month when I used my credit cards to get over a blip in my finances. I'm sure I spent more. I'm back to normal this month using cash to limit my spending and being careful. Credit cards are useful but only if you pay them off. If I don't have it with me I do spend less especially in the pub.


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## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

19sixtysix said:


> Tis true especially last month when I used my credit cards to get over a blip in my finances. I'm sure I spent more. I'm back to normal this month using cash to limit my spending and being careful. Credit cards are useful but only if you pay them off. If I don't have it with me I do spend less especially in the pub.


I ran into big problems with overspending on a credit card when I was on the dole and know first hand how dangerous they can be.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 19, 2018)

19sixtysix said:


> Tis true especially last month when I used my credit cards to get over a blip in my finances. I'm sure I spent more. I'm back to normal this month using cash to limit my spending and being careful. Credit cards are useful but only if you pay them off. If I don't have it with me I do spend less especially in the pub.


Card payment doesn't have to mean credit card.


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 19, 2018)

teuchter said:


> If we're going to condemn cards-only businesses then we should also condemn cash-only businesses or those with minimum spends because they also have the potential to exclude folk on low income



Condemn is probably too strong a word, but I certainly dislike any business that chooses to remove any choices I have around how I pay for their service.

Traditionally cash only businesses (market stalls for example) who have yet to get on board with the cashless systems haven't removed any choice, they instead are a bit behind in implementing cashless payments.


----------



## T & P (Dec 19, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Condemn is probably too strong a word, but I certainly dislike any business that chooses to remove any choices I have around how I pay for their service.
> 
> Traditionally cash only businesses (market stalls for example) who have yet to get on board with the cashless systems haven't removed any choice, they instead are a bit behind in implementing cashless payments.


However there are  _plenty _of brick and mortar businesses that still implement a cash-only policy. Absolutely no excuse for that either, and as objectionable (if not much more objectionable, given the reasons why a good number of them would be operating a cash-only policy in the first place) as a pub running a card-only policy.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

T & P said:


> However there are  _plenty _of brick and mortar businesses that still implement a cash-only policy. Absolutely no excuse for that either, and as objectionable (if not much more objectionable, given the reasons why a good number of them would be operating a cash-only policy in the first place) as a pub running a card-only policy.


So in your eyes, a successful and expensive pub chain that suddenly withdraws the ability to pay cash - and disenfranchises some of its poorer customers at a stroke - is every bit as bad - no_ worse_ - than a small business running a cash-only policy?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 19, 2018)

editor said:


> So in your eyes, a successful and expensive pub chain that suddenly withdraws the ability to pay cash - and disenfranchises some of its poorer customers at a stroke - is every bit as bad - no_ worse_ - than a small business running a cash-only policy?



I think the suggestion is that cash only businesses are tax dodgers...


----------



## teuchter (Dec 19, 2018)

I'd say that pubs with a £5 or £10 minimum card spend are similarly reprehensible as those which won't take cash.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 19, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I'd say that pubs with a £5 or £10 minimum card spend are similarly reprehensible as those which won't take cash.



Yeah, they suck.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I think the suggestion is that cash only businesses are tax dodgers...


Earlier on it was being suggested that bar staff were almost always on the take, and now it's small businesses fiddling the books? Jeez. This place is turning into the Mail Online. If you want to get worked up at tax dodging, look to the corporates swindling billions rather than having a go at businesses struggling to survive.

But, yes, why can't EVERY small trader sign up to the banks and be beholden to the whims of their charging policies?

What Credit Card Charges Do Small Businesses Pay?


----------



## T & P (Dec 19, 2018)

editor said:


> So in your eyes, a successful and expensive pub chain that suddenly withdraws the ability to pay cash - and disenfranchises some of its poorer customers at a stroke - is every bit as bad - no_ worse_ - than a small business running a cash-only policy?


From the stand-alone point of ‘the owner is denying a choice of payments to consumers for selfish/ greed reasons, and it amounts to a big fuck you to his customers’ (a stand-alone point that has made numerous times in this thread separate from any other considerations also being discussed), then absolutely. Refusing to accept cards is every bit as much of a ‘fuck you’ to the consumer as refusing to accept cash.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

T & P said:


> From the stand-alone point of ‘the owner is denying a choice of payments to consumers for selfish/ greed reasons, and it amounts to a big fuck you to his customers’ (a stand-alone point that has made numerous times in this thread separate from any other considerations also being discussed), then absolutely. Refusing to accept cards is every bit as much of a ‘fuck you’ to the consumer as refusing to accept cash.


You do understand that small traders have to pay charges on top for card use, yes? And that many of them are struggling on the breadline so even relatively small costs could put them under. Yet you still you compare their situation with that of a successful, upmarket pub chain, with a turnover in the millions, and still won't criticise them for excluding their poorer customers?


----------



## T & P (Dec 19, 2018)

editor said:


> You do understand that small traders have to pay charges on top for card use, yes? And that many of them are struggling on the breadline so even relatively small costs could put them under. Yet you still you compare their situation with that of a successful, upmarket pub chain, with a turnover in the millions, and still won't criticise them for excluding their poorer customers?


The charges for card payment processing are fairly small, and processing cash also cost businesses money. A lot of cash-only businesses do very well and have traded successfully for years or decades, and unless any of us have inside information I don’t think any of us are in a position to judge which businesses are restricting payment methods accepted as an absolutely necessary cost-cutting measure to survive and which are doing it as a profit-maximising greedy scheme.

Either all businesses offering less than a full range of payment methods are described as having little regard for their customers, or none are.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

T & P said:


> The charges for card payment processing are fairly small, and processing cash also cost businesses money. A lot of cash-only businesses do very well and have traded successfully for years or decades, and unless any of us have inside information I don’t think any of us are in a position to judge which businesses are restricting payment methods accepted as an absolutely necessary cost-cutting measure to survive and which are doing it as a profit-maximising greedy scheme.
> 
> Either all businesses offering less than a full range of payment methods are described as having little regard for their customers, or none are.


So you really are comparing a market trader with a multi million business. Nice one.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 19, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Because it’s pathetic, I condemn Assad and trump not blokes who decide not to take cash in pubs.
> 
> Demanding people condemn minor actions is daily express style idiocy.
> 
> ...



Its already been discussed here that move to cashless society is driven by the state, banks and business.

I have already stated that that is the bigger picture.

What government, as Ive said before , should do is protect consumers by legislating that bars/ restaurant/ pubs must allow cash payment.


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## Gramsci (Dec 19, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> I find the real benefit of card is the ability to monitor and, importantly, modify spending habits. If you gave me £1000 in cash today, I'd probably accurately state where I spent about half of it.



This is argument for move to cashless society?

How does using a card modify spending habits?


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 19, 2018)

alex_ said:


> It’s very clear that this guy is doing it to reduce costs, so yes - consumers.
> 
> Alex



In your post 822 you inferred it was about protecting staff. Going cashless stopped robberies.



> it’s his staff who have to deal with the aftermath of robberies.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 19, 2018)

alex_ said:


> It’s very clear that this guy is doing it to reduce costs, so yes - consumers.
> 
> Alex



In your post 623 on move to cashless society you said:



> And the beneficiaries from this transition are not the consumer.



I know having a go at Ed is a sport here but you are all over the place with your views.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> This is argument for move to cashless society?
> 
> How does using a card modify spending habits?


Studies have shown that people spend more with cards, and that suits the bosses fine - because people then having to deal with their overspending is not their problem.


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## T & P (Dec 19, 2018)

editor said:


> So you really are comparing a market trader with a multi million business. Nice one.


I didn’t say a market trader. I said one of the many brick and mortar retailers that accept cash only.


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## teuchter (Dec 19, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> What government, as Ive said before , should do is protect consumers by legislating that bars/ restaurant/ pubs must allow cash payment.


I think it would be more useful for them to legislate to make sure banks make some form of account/card payment system accessible to all. That would have a greater long term benefit and would be less difficult to monitor compliance.


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## Gramsci (Dec 19, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I think it would be more useful for them to legislate to make sure banks make some form of account/card payment system accessible to all. That would have a greater long term benefit and would be less difficult to monitor compliance.



What do mean by "monitor compliance"?


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## teuchter (Dec 19, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> What do mean by "monitor compliance"?


Make sure that businesses or banks were complying with the legislation.


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## Gramsci (Dec 19, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Make sure that businesses or banks were complying with the legislation.



I don't agree.

Consumers should have right to use cash for most transactions. Cash is anonymous. Imo people should be able to use bars etc without their spending habits being recorded in their bank statements.


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## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

T & P said:


> I didn’t say a market trader. I said one of the many brick and mortar retailers that accept cash only.


Yes you did: "Either* all businesses* offering less than a full range of payment methods are described as having little regard for their customers, or none are."


----------



## teuchter (Dec 19, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I don't agree.
> 
> Consumers should have right to use cash for most transactions. Cash is anonymous. Imo people should be able to use bars etc without their spending habits being recorded in their bank statements.


Yes, but unregistered cards that you top up can fulfill this function. Like is possible with Oyster cards. In some cities they have an equivalent to Oyster, that you can use in shops and bars etc. You just get the card from a machine and put some credit on it. In the long term this seems the more likely solution. People exchanging bits of paper and metal will become redundant I reckon.


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## Mr Retro (Dec 19, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I think it would be more useful for them to legislate to make sure banks make some form of account/card payment system accessible to all. That would have a greater long term benefit and would be less difficult to monitor compliance.


I agree with this. Move to cashless is inevitable and this is the way to make sure nobody is left behind.


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## Mr Retro (Dec 19, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Yes, but unregistered cards that you top up can fulfill this function. Like is possible with Oyster cards. In some cities they have an equivalent to Oyster, that you can use in shops and bars etc. You just get the card from a machine and put some credit on it. In the long term this seems the more likely solution.


This is exactly what happened in Hong Kong. Their Oyster equivalent, the Octopus card has evolved to become a payments system.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> I agree with this. Move to cashless is inevitable and this is the way to make sure nobody is left behind.


And how do you think a pub going out on a limb to unilaterally ban cash and disenfranchise some of their regulars helps anyone reach that goal?


----------



## 19sixtysix (Dec 19, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Card payment doesn't have to mean credit card.



Card payment of any type in the pub seems to mean I end up buying more drinks. I'm paid well enough so occasionally it doesn't make that much difference but I have been shocked seeing my drinks laid out on the statement. I know it's way more than I would spend if I took cash.


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## editor (Dec 20, 2018)

19sixtysix said:


> Card payment of any type in the pub seems to mean I end up buying more drinks. I'm paid well enough so occasionally it doesn't make that much difference but I have been shocked seeing my drinks laid out on the statement. I know it's way more than I would spend if I took cash.


Which is why some pubs just love to foist a card-only policy on their punters. And it's despicable.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 20, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> In your post 623 on move to cashless society you said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know having a go at Ed is a sport here but you are all over the place with your views.



There are numerous beneficiaries and people who lose.

Some groups have both !

Primary benificiary, him - reduced costs, secondary beneficiary - some consumers - in theory less price rises, staff who don’t have to deal with robberies.

People who lose - minority of consumers, staff id imagine you can pay less if you don’t require cash handling plus you don’t need someone senior to stay at the end and cash up )


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## T & P (Dec 20, 2018)

editor said:


> Yes you did: "Either* all businesses* offering less than a full range of payment methods are described as having little regard for their customers, or none are."


Fine. Let me rephrase that for the avoidance of doubt. Either all brick-and-mortar businesses offering less than a full range of payment methods are described as having little regard for their customers, or none are.

Do you not agree with that?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 20, 2018)

I wanna pay by cheque next time I go to the pub...


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 20, 2018)

...and we'll never be a cashless society. How would car boot sales and record fairs and village fetes and church bazaars happen?

It's an a affront to great British traditions


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## snowy_again (Dec 20, 2018)

Sex and drugs trade, charity donations, road tolls & car parking too - there's a whole bunch of things that will never be electronic.


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 20, 2018)

Paying the builder


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## editor (Dec 20, 2018)

T & P said:


> Fine. Let me rephrase that for the avoidance of doubt. Either all brick-and-mortar businesses offering less than a full range of payment methods are described as having little regard for their customers, or none are.
> 
> Do you not agree with that?


Nope. Some bricks and mortar businesses may be temporary, or charities, or low cost start-ups who can't afford to accept credit cards or perhaps have problems securing their use. But all of this is just irrelevant wriggling in an attempt to provide excuses for a multi million pound pub chain deciding to effectively bar some of their poorer customers in the name of extra profit for themselves, when approx 99.9% of other pubs are happy to take cash. 

Pubs aren't like most other businesses anyway. They often play a large role in the heart of some communities, and it's those communities who have sustained them for decades, sometimes centuries. Arbitrarily cutting off a section of that community fucking sucks, and what happens at Jimmy's Widget Store down the road is irrelevant.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Dec 20, 2018)

Is it really a multi million pound business though? I thought it was a small chain with a handful of pubs. It appears to be a family business with two directors.

But really, I find it surprising that this debate is rumbling on on here, and at how angry some people appear to be.

Is there evidence of regulars being turned away, or being unable to drink there, because of this policy?

It’s not credit cards only - debit cards are fine.

The one time I went, I wasn’t really bothered by the card only policy, although I was surprised. And we made a point of leaving a tip in cash, because we had a meal, with table service.

It didn’t bother me when the Craft Beer Cabin went card only, either.

I get the point about some people bring excluded by such policies, but does anyone know how many regular customers of either establishment doesn’t have a bank account?

I suspect it’s very few, if any.

And I think we should be supporting the small pubcos who are reopening pubs or keeping them open.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 20, 2018)

This isn't the thread for reason.


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2018)

Guineveretoo said:


> Is it really a multi million pound business though? I thought it was a small chain with a handful of pubs. It appears to be a family business with two directors.


They have assets heading towards a million quid. They own at least six successful pubs and a restaurant.

And I think small pubcos should be supporting all their paying customers, not excluding them.

And here's the actual issue at stake: Millions 'will suffer without cash'.

And I'm having at go at this pub because they're one of the very, very few to inflict a card-only policy on their customers - in fact it's so rare they made national news over it.

And research has shown that if people just accept it, then many people - including the poorest in our community and the elderly - will suffer.

Isn't that worth speaking out about?


----------



## Twattor (Dec 20, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Sex and drugs trade, charity donations, road tolls & car parking too - there's a whole bunch of things that will never be electronic.


although quite a few buskers seem to manage contactless.  I passed one this morning whose terminal was set up at a default £2.


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## editor (Dec 20, 2018)

Twattor said:


> although quite a few buskers seem to manage contactless.  I passed one this morning whose terminal was set up at a default £2.


If non league football went card-only that would have a devastating impact on attendances.  But jolly good for the busker.


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 20, 2018)

Guineveretoo said:


> I get the point about some people bring excluded by such policies, but does anyone know how many regular customers of either establishment doesn’t have a bank account?



How many is too few for it not to matter?


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 20, 2018)

Twattor said:


> although quite a few buskers seem to manage contactless.  I passed one this morning whose terminal was set up at a default £2.



They wouldn't turn away a ten pound note though would they....

Choice.


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## marty21 (Dec 20, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I wanna pay by cheque next time I go to the pub...


did pubs ever accept cheques?


snowy_again said:


> Sex and drugs trade, charity donations, road tolls & car parking too - there's a whole bunch of things that will never be electronic.


I make charity donations on-line and pay for parking via an app


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## Guineveretoo (Dec 20, 2018)

marty21 said:


> did pubs ever accept cheques?
> 
> I make charity donations on-line and pay for parking via an app


Yes! I used to cash cheques in the local pub regularly. There were no banks in the village where i was living at the time, so the pub was our main source of cash


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## marty21 (Dec 20, 2018)

Guineveretoo said:


> Yes! I used to cash cheques in the local pub regularly. There were no banks in the village where i was living at the time, so the pub was our main source of cash


Less likely in big cities I'd have thought , I associate cheques in pubs with navvies cashing their wage cheques then paying in cash over the bar .


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## Guineveretoo (Dec 20, 2018)

marty21 said:


> Less likely in big cities I'd have thought , I associate cheques in pubs with navvies cashing their wage cheques then paying in cash over the bar .


I think it was really common back in the day. Although I didn't live in a big city, so maybe not...  But there were no cash machines back then, so people had to go to banks to cash cheques and, once cheque guarantee cards were introduced, they were able to cash them in shops and pubs.


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 20, 2018)

Soup kitchens, homeless shelters, food projects etc....they run by cash....


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## SpamMisery (Dec 20, 2018)

People fear change. I'm sure a load of people complained that the rise in popularity of cars would leave the poorest behind and were on the message boards of the day insisting that people had an inalienable right to choose between mechanised and non-mechanised modes of transport and that wheelwrights should remain on every street corner forever to service the needs of horse-and-cart users. But yes, the transition to a cashless society needs to be managed sympathetically whilst avoiding retarding technological advances.


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## TruXta (Dec 20, 2018)

Oh god make it stop.


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## Gramsci (Dec 20, 2018)

Guineveretoo said:


> Is it really a multi million pound business though? I thought it was a small chain with a handful of pubs. It appears to be a family business with two directors.
> 
> But really, I find it surprising that this debate is rumbling on on here, and at how angry some people appear to be.
> 
> ...



The what I thought was reasonable suggestion was that business should accept cash payments. I don't want recorded on my bank statement amount I spent in pub.

The other argument put forward here ( not mine but I agree with it) is that move to cashless society is being pushed by interests of the State and Banks. Something I agree with. Its the bigger picture.

Yes I agree some here are getting upset and angry. The fact that some posters like me bring up opposition to cashless society does make some posters here most upset. 

All I have been saying is that as consumer I want a choice of payment alternatives when I go to a bar/ pub/ restaurant.


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## Gramsci (Dec 20, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> People fear change. I'm sure a load of people complained that the rise in popularity of cars would leave the poorest behind and were on the message boards of the day insisting that people had an inalienable right to choose between mechanised and non-mechanised modes of transport and that wheelwrights should remain on every street corner forever to service the needs of horse-and-cart users. But yes, the transition to a cashless society needs to be managed sympathetically whilst avoiding retarding technological advances.




Society is made by humans. Technological change is a political issue. 

Technological change doesn't just happen.


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 20, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> People fear change. I'm sure a load of people complained that the rise in popularity of cars would leave the poorest behind and were on the message boards of the day insisting that people had an inalienable right to choose between mechanised and non-mechanised modes of transport and that wheelwrights should remain on every street corner forever to service the needs of horse-and-cart users. But yes, the transition to a cashless society needs to be managed sympathetically whilst avoiding retarding technological advances.



Shut up you dull cunt...


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## SpamMisery (Dec 20, 2018)

Good point, well argued.


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## Gramsci (Dec 20, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Yes, but unregistered cards that you top up can fulfill this function. Like is possible with Oyster cards. In some cities they have an equivalent to Oyster, that you can use in shops and bars etc. You just get the card from a machine and put some credit on it. In the long term this seems the more likely solution. People exchanging bits of paper and metal will become redundant I reckon.



My Oyster is not registered. I keep it that way for reasons of personal privacy. 

A lot of pre paid cards require one to register using for example ID like passport number. So are different to cash.

I remember idea that Oyster could be used to buy small items. Like Octopus. It never happened.

Its more likely , unfortunately, that Oyster could be phased out as contactless card payments are now possible.

I don't feel governments would be keen on people having cards they could load up anonymously for larger amounts that are spent in shops and bars.

Technically its probably possible. Yes it could be alternative.


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## cuppa tee (Dec 20, 2018)

What would happen if we end up with someone like Rees Mogg running the country in a no cash scenario....anyone on benefits who splashed out on a cheeky pint or two could find their money stopped if their spending was open to scrutiny by the PTB


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## TruXta (Dec 20, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Technically its probably possible. Yes it could be alternative.


Technically it's a trivial problem. Politically it's a no go.


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## marty21 (Dec 20, 2018)

TruXta said:


> Technically it's a trivial problem. Politically it's a no go.


Yep, banks aren't going to want to release that information and politicians won't want to open that can of worms just in case their spending ends up being analysed too.


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## TruXta (Dec 20, 2018)

marty21 said:


> Yep, banks aren't going to want to release that information and politicians won't want to open that can of worms just in case their spending ends up being analysed too.


I meant anonymous cards. If you're talking about banks releasing account information, well, they already do that if compelled.


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## TruXta (Dec 20, 2018)

Keep up granda.


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## teuchter (Dec 20, 2018)

TruXta said:


> I meant anonymous cards.


They already exist.


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## TruXta (Dec 20, 2018)

teuchter said:


> They already exist.


Usable just like any debit card with full anonymity?


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## teuchter (Dec 20, 2018)

TruXta said:


> Usable just like any debit card with full anonymity?


Don't know. What I know is that there are places in the world where you can buy a card with cash from a machine, load it up and then use it in shops etc. At no point in the process do you hand over any personal details.


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## alex_ (Dec 21, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I don't feel governments would be keen on people having cards they could load up anonymously for larger amounts that are spent in shops and bars.
> 
> Technically its probably possible. Yes it could be alternative.



One of the reasons they won’t like them would be money laundering.

Alex


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## Gramsci (Dec 21, 2018)

alex_ said:


> One of the reasons they won’t like them would be money laundering.
> 
> Alex



If the move to cashless society is inevitable does that mean you do not support idea of totally anonymous cards?


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## alex_ (Dec 21, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> If the move to cashless society is inevitable does that mean you do not support idea of totally anonymous cards?



I do, but there are also good reasons the government doesn’t.

Other issues - who pays for it and why ?

Alex


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## Gramsci (Dec 21, 2018)

alex_ said:


> I do, but there are also good reasons the government doesn’t.
> 
> Other issues - who pays for it and why ?
> 
> Alex


I was replying to the argument put forward that move to cashless society was inevitable. Its technological process that just happened.


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## TruXta (Dec 21, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I was replying to the argument put forward that move to cashless society was inevitable. Its technological process that just happened.


There's nothing inevitable about it.


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## teuchter (Dec 21, 2018)

Article here about sweden.

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/going-cashless-can-learn-swedens-experience/


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## alex_ (Dec 21, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I was replying to the argument put forward that move to cashless society was inevitable. Its technological process that just happened.



I’m guessing that the government wants to transfer a load of costs to the banks, and the banks want it as it gives them a load of data about their customer and potentially lets the banks monitise that.

Alex


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## Gramsci (Dec 21, 2018)

TruXta said:


> There's nothing inevitable about it.



I agree.


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## editor (Dec 21, 2018)

There's plenty of serious doubts about Sweden's drive to a cashless society. 

"If cash stops working, it would leave all individuals to rely on the private sector alone to get access to money and payment methods"
Why Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

"And the progress toward a cashless society could upend the state’s centuries-old role as sovereign guarantor. If cash disappears, commercial banks would wield greater control."
Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

"Meanwhile the bank's governor Stefan Ingves has argued that phasing out coins and notes could put the entire country at risk should Sweden encounter a "serious crisis or war"."
Who loses from a cashless society?


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## snowy_again (Dec 21, 2018)

Aside from the sub editors title this article you cited actually suggests that the state creates an e-Krona as a way of not letting private business manage ecommerce and as a replacement to cash. 

Why Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia


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## editor (Dec 21, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Aside from the sub editors title this article you cited actually suggests that the state creates an e-Krona as a way of not letting private business manage ecommerce and as a replacement to cash.
> 
> Why Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia


Yes, it's an interesting piece. I hope you read the other links too. The Crown and Anchor are still wankers for forcing a card only policy on their customers though.


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## snowy_again (Dec 21, 2018)

What do you think of a state backed e-currency replacing all cash which it proposes?

I've also read the earlier BBC article which was a bit disappointing - its based around research from a dubious person who moved from working for a public sector finance regulator to a large private bank - I'm assuming benefiting from all of the pay package that brought, plus the knowledge of where the grey areas in policy gaps are to be exploited.

It's essentially the Link ATM company paying for someone with a name for research - and amounts to a lobbying tool for their private business model. Strange that the bosses are being supported this way.

Aside from that I didn't find the messages _that _relevant to this discussion as it relates to people with bank accounts using ATMs to withdraw cash - which isn't the topic here is it - we're talking about people with no bank accounts (or POCA accounts which have limited ATM access) not being able to access services at a pub.


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## editor (Dec 21, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> What do you think of a state backed e-currency replacing all cash which it proposes?


I want cash to remain and be accepted everywhere for those who wish to use it. And I don't want trendy pubs disenfranchising their loyal customers and going card-only just to make their already-profitable business a little bit more profitable.


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## Gramsci (Dec 21, 2018)

alex_ said:


> I’m guessing that the government wants to transfer a load of costs to the banks, and the banks want it as it gives them a load of data about their customer and potentially lets the banks monitise that.
> 
> Alex



For me another reason to not support move to cashless society.


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## 8ball (Dec 21, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> For me another reason to not support move to cashless society.



The big prize is being able to set negative interest rates.
Your money is their money.


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## Gramsci (Dec 21, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> What do you think of a state backed e-currency replacing all cash which it proposes?
> 
> Aside from that I didn't find the messages _that _relevant to this discussion as it relates to people with bank accounts using ATMs to withdraw cash - which isn't the topic here is it - we're talking about people with no bank accounts (or POCA accounts which have limited ATM access) not being able to access services at a pub.



I have bank account and debit card. I still like using cash. 

I dont want all my spending habits recorded. 

Government backed E currency would not probably be anonymous like using cash. So no I wouldn't support it.


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## Nanker Phelge (Dec 21, 2018)

we can do away with copper money though....that just makes my trousers fall down....


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## Gramsci (Dec 21, 2018)

Nanker Phelge said:


> we can do away with copper money though....that just makes my trousers fall down....



I miss farthings with that nice Wren on them.


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## snowy_again (Dec 21, 2018)

editor said:


> I want cash to remain and be accepted everywhere for those who wish to use it. And I don't want trendy pubs disenfranchising their loyal customers and going card-only just to make their already-profitable business a little bit more profitable.


So you disagreed with the article?


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## editor (Dec 21, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> So you disagreed with the article?


I'm not really sure how much clearer I can make my statement.


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## snowy_again (Dec 21, 2018)

I'm sorry, but I'm still confused - the article doesn't agree with your view point - it doesn't propose the end of electronic currencies, nor that retailers shouldn't be e-currency only, nor cash being a compulsory method of payment in Sweden - as it points out that retailers aren't obliged to accept cash by law anyway.

Instead, it says that the state bank should deliver an online currency instead of the private banking sector.

Here's the state bank Riksbank policy and research paper summary on implementing a a state run e-krona until the point at which those using cash dwindle: 
Next step – a technical solution for the e-krona

And from it's press release in 2016: "The Riksbank will continue issuing banknotes and coins as long as there is demand for them in society. It is our statutory duty and we will of course continue to live up to it"


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## cuppa tee (Dec 21, 2018)

Lots of songs reference cash money, a sign of its cultural significance notably among the poor and dispossessed....Can't imagine anyone being inspired to write a paean to their contactless card or online bank account tho'.......


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## editor (Dec 21, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm still confused - the article doesn't agree with your view point - it doesn't propose the end of electronic currencies, nor that retailers shouldn't be e-currency only, nor cash being a compulsory method of payment in Sweden - as it points out that retailers aren't obliged to accept cash by law anyway.
> 
> Instead, it says that the state bank should deliver an online currency instead of the private banking sector.
> 
> ...


Did I post up the links saying," Here. These articles are perfectly aligned to my viewpoint"?  Why no, I did not.


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## Gramsci (Dec 21, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm still confused - the article doesn't agree with your view point - it doesn't propose the end of electronic currencies, nor that retailers shouldn't be e-currency only, nor cash being a compulsory method of payment in Sweden - as it points out that retailers aren't obliged to accept cash by law anyway.
> 
> Instead, it says that the state bank should deliver an online currency instead of the private banking sector.
> 
> ...



I think retailers should be law be obliged to accept cash payments. I pay for a lot of goods on the nail with cash. My fridge from Currys from example. I don't want that taken away from me.


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## Gramsci (Dec 21, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm still confused - the article doesn't agree with your view point - it doesn't propose the end of electronic currencies, nor that retailers shouldn't be e-currency only, nor cash being a compulsory method of payment in Sweden - as it points out that retailers aren't obliged to accept cash by law anyway.
> 
> Instead, it says that the state bank should deliver an online currency instead of the private banking sector.
> 
> ...



Are you saying you would support a move to abolish cash and replace it with government backed E currency?

Im not clear if you have actually said yes or no.


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## Gramsci (Dec 21, 2018)

This thread is starting to get to be full of links. Which I'm not keen on.

Ploughed through few a few. Teuchters link had this:



> This is possible in Sweden because even though cash is a legal tender, contract laws have a higher precedence than banking and payment laws here. If a store puts up a sign that it does not accept cash, then you, as a customer, have entered a contract or an agreement with that store that they don’t accept cash. But in other countries, like Denmark for instance, payment laws have higher precedence than contract laws. In those countries, if something is a legal tender, then according to the law a store must accept it. This is one of the key reasons why Sweden is more cashless than other countries — because of its legal framework.



http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/going-cashless-can-learn-swedens-experience/

This shows that the State has role in pushing towards cashless society.

Another thing that this article states is that Swedes:



> . Swedes adopt new technologies rapidly and are very open to accepting changes in the payment systems. One key reason for this is that we have a very good relationship with our government. Unlike most other countries, we trust our government and we trust our banks. This is quite unique to Sweden.



I don't think that is the case in this country. Trust is an issue here.

The researcher they interviewed was asked about pros and cons. What he says does not make me support move to cashless society:



> From a research perspective, I don’t really have an opinion whether this is good or bad. This is the path that Sweden and other countries are heading towards and there is nothing we can do to revert the course. It will have different consequences; some are positive, some are negative. An advantage of a cashless society is that it will be easier to trace criminal activities and we might be able to block some of them. The disadvantage is that everyone can be traced. We will be more traced than we are today. We will lose our privacy


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## ricbake (Dec 22, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I miss farthings with that nice Wren on them.


Presumably post Brexit we can switch back to pounds shillings and pence!


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## ricbake (Jan 30, 2019)

Cavendish Arms Stockwell - Card only!


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## TruXta (Jan 30, 2019)

ricbake said:


> Cavendish Arms Stockwell - Card only!


What kind of clientele do they serve?


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## ricbake (Jan 30, 2019)

It's an open mike comedy night with a very diverse crowd - a good night


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## TruXta (Jan 30, 2019)

ricbake said:


> It's an open mike comedy night with a very diverse crowd - a good night


I see you have no sympathy for the downtrodden, card-less masses of Stockwell that are being excluded


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## jimbarkanoodle (Jan 31, 2019)

noticed a few places now only accepting card. All food and drink/bars, although mostly in areas like Soho.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Jan 31, 2019)

ricbake said:


> It's an open mike comedy night with a very diverse crowd - a good night




Whats the prices on the beer?


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## DietCokeGirl (Jan 31, 2019)

TruXta said:


> I see you have no sympathy for the downtrodden, card-less masses of Stockwell that are being excluded


To be fair, they're very accommodating to their regulars. This isn't the place to elaborate but they do make sure the local community are well served.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 31, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> noticed a few places now only accepting card. All food and drink/bars, although mostly in areas like Soho.



I was in a cafe in Peckham the other day....card only...in a cafe....(it was a bit of a posh cafe place, but all the same...)


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## jimbarkanoodle (Jan 31, 2019)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I was in a cafe in Peckham the other day....card only...in a cafe....(it was a bit of a posh cafe place, but all the same...)



If you want a normal, good value, traditional cafe nestled amoungst the sea of pretentious hipster cafes at the end of Rye Lane, may i suggest you try 'Ozzies Cafe'.  On a level with Sam's on Acre Lane.


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## TruXta (Jan 31, 2019)

DietCokeGirl said:


> To be fair, they're very accommodating to their regulars. This isn't the place to elaborate but they do make sure the local community are well served.


That's nice to hear


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## 19sixtysix (Jan 31, 2019)

ricbake said:


> Presumably post Brexit we can switch back to pounds shillings and pence!



I voted remain and if we leave I'll be demanding it return of LSD just to see those stupid people trying to manage counting in twelves and scores.
We'll need to devalue the pound so I think one pound to one new old penny should be about right and we can have farthings again.


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## Gramsci (Jan 24, 2020)

New York City votes to ban cashless businesses in step against discrimination
					

Supporters of the ban argue electronic-only payments discriminate against people who don’t have a bank account or access to credit




					www.theguardian.com
				






> New York City’s council has voted to ban cashless businesses, in what politicians said was an effort to rein in “the excesses of the digital economy” and stop discrimination against low-income residents.
> 
> The city council on Thursday almost unanimously passed legislation, which will fine retail outlets, including stores and restaurants, if they refuse to accept cash payment.
> 
> Supporters of the ban argue that electronic-only payments discriminate against low-income people, undocumented immigrants and people of color, who are less likely to have a bank account or access to credit.



Good to see that the elected representatives of the people of New York see making sure cash is accepted is important.


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## 8ball (Jan 24, 2020)

Gramsci said:


> New York City votes to ban cashless businesses in step against discrimination
> 
> 
> Supporters of the ban argue electronic-only payments discriminate against people who don’t have a bank account or access to credit
> ...



I have no idea how many folks in the States have no bank accounts but Amen to that.


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## Gramsci (Jan 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> I have no idea how many folks in the States have no bank accounts but Amen to that.



The article says:




> 2019 report





> by New York City’s department of consumer and worker protection found that 11% of households in the city have no bank account, while about 22% of households are “underbanked” – meaning they use alternatives to bank accounts for some payments


.

They recognise that some people have bank account but dont want to use it for all payments.


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## editor (Nov 23, 2022)

Here's one take on not going cash-free



> Why should we pay cash everywhere with banknotes instead of a card ?
> 
> - I have a £50 banknote in my pocket. Going to a restaurant and paying for dinner with it. The restaurant owner then uses the note to pay for the laundry. The laundry owner then uses the note to pay the barber. The barber will then use the note for shopping. After an unlimited number of payments, it will still remain a £50, which has fulfilled its purpose to everyone who used it for payment and the bank has jumped dry from every cash payment transaction made..
> 
> - But if I come to a restaurant and pay for digitally - Card, bank fees for my payment transaction charged to the seller are 3%, so around £1.50  and so will the fee £1.50 for each further payment transaction or owner re laundry or payments of the owner of the laundry shop, or payments of the barber etc..... Therefore, after 30 transactions, the initial £50  will remain only £5 and the remaining £45 became the property of the bank thanks to all digital transactions and fees.


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## MickiQ (Nov 23, 2022)

editor said:


> Here's one take on not going cash-free


It's a daft one there is no virtual equivalent of the £50 note whose value is reduced by multiple transactions, each transaction is unique and has no relationship to any other.


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## teuchter (Nov 23, 2022)

Also have to take into account the cost (in time) to sellers in administrating physical cash transactions.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 24, 2022)

Hootannany is now card only, even the pool tables are activated with a debit card. I can see how this will actually help on busy nights to speed up the service, I suppose. 

I overheard people talking in the Marquis of Lorne yesterday how much business they must loose from pissed people coming out of the academy who want a drink after the gig, since its cash only and the nearest cash point is a 10 minute trundle back the way they came into Brixton. The fact is most people under about 40 don't really carry cash about these days, apart from to buy drugs.


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## editor (Nov 24, 2022)

Here's the far bigger problem than some pissed up blokes not being able to get a beer at Brixton's only cash-only bar:






						Move to Cashless Society Will Disproportionately Affect Pensioners & the Poorest in UK
					

According to new research by customer advice website Which?, the nationwide trend towards cashless transactions will have a harmful effect on the most vuln...




					www.moneyexpert.com
				












						Only Half of Low-Income Households Have Access to a Credit Card. Here's Why That's a Bad Thing
					

It's harder for some people to qualify for a credit card. Here's why that's a bigger problem than you might think.




					www.fool.com
				






> When you pay digitally, you always leave a digital footprint, and this footprint is easily monitored by financial institutions. Understandably, consumers are uneasy about their data being harvested or tracked by big businesses.
> 
> *Many people also feel that cashless spending is more difficult to control. It’s simply too easy to overspend when you’re not looking at a finite, physical sum of money in your wallet or purse, so careful budgeting becomes important. *
> 
> ...











						A cashless society: what are the pros and cons?
					

Are we heading for a cashless society in the UK? The pandemic accelerated the move towards contactless and digital payments, but what are the pros and cons?




					www.unbiased.co.uk
				




And a US perspective which raises valid points:









						Say No to the “Cashless Future” — and to Cashless Stores | News & Commentary | American Civil Liberties Union
					





					www.aclu.org


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## CH1 (Nov 24, 2022)

editor said:


> Here's the far bigger problem than some pissed up blokes not being able to get a beer at Brixton's only cash-only bar:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't all pensioners have bank accounts these days?
I have been on pension since July 2020, but in practice I went cashless when the Covid lockdown started.
The only inconvenience I have about this is on the rare occasion I attend local churches - who don't seem to have moved with the times.
Due to inflation collections seem to be notes only these days - even in the C of E!

Maybe there is more of an argument for cash when it comes to addictive behaviour?
I mean it;s possible a hard-core drinker can be restrained by having run out of cash in their pocket where a credit card would prove a disaster.
Likewise betting machines.


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## cuppa tee (Nov 24, 2022)

editor said:


> Here's the far bigger problem than some pissed up blokes not being able to get a beer at Brixton's only cash-only bar:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



grosvenor is card only as well, and i have overspent in there a couple of times as a result
heres another perspective from a pub in swindon...not a publican so cant verify if this is true..


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## CH1 (Nov 25, 2022)

cuppa tee said:


> grosvenor is card only as well, and i have overspent in there a couple of times as a result
> heres another perspective from a pub in swindon...not a publican so cant verify if this is true..
> 
> 
> View attachment 352743


I think this notice is untrue (unless possibly the pub is a "community pub and registered charity" - and their bank offers special cheap deals to charities)
Bank charges to businesses were always very particular in accounting for BOTH cash in and cash out.
Or is the Carpenter's Arms with some poncy bank like Metro, itself teetering on the brink to retain customers?


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## CH1 (Nov 26, 2022)

Surely "27th November 2022 - Dulwich College Fair goes cashless" merits a mention on this thread? 








						Dulwich College Christmas Fair takes place this Sunday, 27th Nov 2022
					

The annual Dulwich College Christmas Fair will be going ahead this Sunday, 27th Nov, in the historic Barry Buildings and surrounding areas, with a KidZone in the Auditorium and Santa’s Grotto…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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