# The Work Programme



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2012)

Has anyone been put on this?
I just have and it looks like a scam for the government to save money and elude its responsibilities.
Or is it a constructive and helpful programme that will help me find gainful, satisfactory employment? 
If anyone has any experience and/or advice for dealing with these private 'providers', please share your thoughts!


----------



## rover07 (May 31, 2012)

Im on it. Its very good, kind of a cross between careers advice and counselling. Of course, i guess the firms vary in what they do.

I haven't worked for over 2 years now and haven't wanted to. But i may even get a job now. 

My advisor seems cool and i think is genuinely trying to help me. I actually look forward to our fortnightly meetings.


----------



## southside (May 31, 2012)

The work program sounds really fucking fascist if you ask me.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2012)

Will I be forced to do low-paid, shitty jobs?


----------



## rover07 (May 31, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Will I be forced to do low-paid, shitty jobs?



No, i dont think so. Thats only for under 25's?

I thought that when i went there but they are really very nice.

Of course, their aim is to get me a job that's how they get paid by the government. But i reckon they also get paid extra if it's long term work.

A shitty job that you leave after a few weeks is not much point and makes them look bad. 

These firms come and go so need to be able to do a good job of getting long term unemployed back into work.

I'm going for self-employment which means i can work part-time with plenty of benefits plus opportunity for cash in hand.

We're working on what exactly now, going through options. Maybe help with finance and courses.


----------



## rover07 (May 31, 2012)

I go once a fortnight for an hour plus some work options to research at home.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2012)

But why is this all being done by a private firm? It's well suss


----------



## Glitter (May 31, 2012)

It all depends which provider you get. Some are very good, some are toss. However if you turn up to appointments they're pretty unlikely to let it affect your benefits so you should be ok.


----------



## Glitter (May 31, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> But why is this all being done by a private firm? It's well suss


 
It's cheaper. In one guise or another this has been done for years. I've worked in that sector for about 12 years and I started with one of the providers.


----------



## southside (May 31, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> But why is this all being done by a private firm? It's well suss


 
Neo-Libralism, shit isn't it.  The government palm off their responsibility to make it less of a direct hit on them.  That Cunt Thatchers fault.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 31, 2012)

more like  wank programme


----------



## rover07 (May 31, 2012)

Yeah, it's a private firm. There's no way round it if you've been on the dole more than a year.

Its not much different to the work-adviser at the Jobcentre, except its more informal. 

At mine they are not there to catch you out, in fact i've ended up being very honest and admitting i've had no interest in work after a long bout of depression. They were sympathetic, it must be very common.

I hope you get a good firm. When is your first appointment?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2012)

I'm expecting a call from them. 
So you would advise being straight forward about motivation/mental health?


----------



## RaverDrew (May 31, 2012)

I've been on it for a year.

A scam purely to rob public money and put it into private hands.

On Tuesday I'd had enough, they sanctioned me yet again for the most bullshit of reasons, so I told them to go shove it up their arse.


----------



## rover07 (May 31, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm expecting a call from them.
> So you would advise being straight forward about motivation/mental health?



Yeah i would, it can't hurt can it? Don't say you're not going to get a job... just it has to be a job you feel comfortable doing otherwise you'll likely quit. Which is true for me.

My ex used to work for one of these type firms and i know they get extra payments based on how long a claimant stays in work.

What do you mean sanctioned, Raverdrew?


----------



## cypher79 (May 31, 2012)

I got told i had to work 30 hours a week for 4 weeks, for free. I refused and got my benefits stopped.

So my experience is that it sucks.


----------



## Brainaddict (May 31, 2012)

This might be helpful http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=311

I'm sure one or two people like rover get some good from it. I'm also fairly sure they're in the minority.


----------



## rover07 (May 31, 2012)

Brainaddict said:


> This might be helpful http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=311
> 
> I'm sure one or two people like rover get some good from it. I'm also fairly sure they're in the minority.



Work Programme is a different scheme to Work Experience, thankfully.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2012)

cypher79 said:


> I got told i had to work 30 hours a week for 4 weeks, for free. I refused and got my benefits stopped.
> 
> So my experience is that it sucks.


Are you under 25? I'm fairly sure they wouldn't make me work for free at the age of 39


----------



## RaverDrew (Jun 1, 2012)

rover07 said:


> What do you mean sanctioned, Raverdrew?


 
Keep cutting me off for the most petty bureaucratic reasons etc

The KKK took my JSA away


----------



## cypher79 (Jun 1, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Are you under 25? I'm fairly sure they wouldn't make me work for free at the age of 39


 
I'm 32.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 2, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Are you under 25? I'm fairly sure they wouldn't make me work for free at the age of 39


 
Don't be so sure. They tried that on with my dad's 62-yr old neighbour.


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 2, 2012)

We had a briefing about this and the universal benefit thing the other day at work. It's a long time since I felt so depressed. For under 25s it's going to be a nightmare.


----------



## BigTom (Jun 4, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Has anyone been put on this?
> I just have and it looks like a scam for the government to save money and elude its responsibilities.
> Or is it a constructive and helpful programme that will help me find gainful, satisfactory employment?
> If anyone has any experience and/or advice for dealing with these private 'providers', please share your thoughts!


 
www.consent.me.uk - use the data protection act to get out of work assignments. Basically you say, no I won't give my consent to [workfare provider] to pass on my details to prospective companies and then although they can send you out on assignments they can't collect money for it or something (I've not used this but have 2 friends who are currently doing so and haven't got sent to work anywhere yet, one of them got told by her job centre adviser that using the DPA works - but you'll still have to attend their job search etc. sessions).
They will put pressure on you to consent to the DPA requirements but legally they cannot make you do it and they cannot sanction you for refusal.

Another tactic which a friend uses is that he's told the adviser he's a militant IWW union member and if he gets sent anywhere to work he'll try to organise and unionise the workforce there .. he's not been sent anywhere yet  (He is a militant IWW member btw)

You can get sent out to work on the Work Programme regardless of age - if you're under 25 it'll be the work experience scheme or mandatory work activity. If you're over 25 it'll be mandatory work activity, or a different scheme I think but I can't remember the name or if I've got confused.

Although I'm pretty certain that they can't send over 25's on the Work Experience Scheme, if they can and do try it, then there are no longer sanctions applied to the scheme if you refuse - but they will probably send you on a Mandatory Work Activity instead, for which sanctions have not been removed.

If you're lucky you'll get sent on courses like this: http://izzykoksal.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/adventures-at-a4e/ If you do, please feel free to write about it - Boycott Workfare will publish it if you don't have anywhere else to put it.

Ime Rover07's experience is not the usual - I've spoke to lots of people whove been sent on the work programme round here, with Ingeus, Eos, Seetec, Working Links and Pertemps, and none of them have had a worthwhile experience  This is one account locally (InTraining are owned by Working Links iirc) http://birminghamagainstthecuts.wor...ife-jacket-a-report-from-a-workfare-attendee/

Hopefully you get a good firm/place/adviser and it'll be of use to you, like Rover07 has found. If not, grit your teeth and do what you need to do to avoid sanctions, and get what you can out of it.



Glitter said:


> It's cheaper. In one guise or another this has been done for years. I've worked in that sector for about 12 years and I started with one of the providers.


 
Is it cheaper? (This is an honest question, because I have no idea at all how much the corresponding schemes, if they existed, cost when they were done in house by DWP, or how much they think they'd cost if they were taken in house now).
Emma Harrison at A4e took an £8.6million dividend before resigning after loads of fraud emerged at A4e last year - A4e make all their money from government contracts so she is in effect a civil servant.. know any other civil servant who gets paid anything like that?

The work programme is costing £5bn and is not doing a good job.. http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/201...-programme-really-be-increasing-unemployment/ .. 22% get work following the work programme - compared to an expected 28% for not going on it.

Private Eye last issue (and I'll scan the article up now the new ones out) showed that the DWP rejected 10% of claims under New Deal in 2010/11 (having questioned 30% originally) - £30m of attempts to claim for work not done. Nothing was ever investigated though.

I dunno, but I reckon there's enough reasons to question whether private firms are cheaper or better value for money than doing this inhouse at the DWP, until seeing further evidence.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 4, 2012)

Thanks for such a detailed, comprehensive answer, Big Tom!


----------



## ddraig (Jun 10, 2012)

more work programme ACE LOGIC!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?353511-Work-programme-is-unreal!



			
				jsdk on consumeractiongroup.co.uk said:
			
		

> *Work programme is unreal!*
> 
> Hi everyone,​​any advice on this problem would be greatly appreciated.​My son is currently in receipt of Jobseekers allowance,he lives with his partner and their 2 children.Last week he had a work programme appointment,he received a *phone call*
> 
> ...


  and


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jun 26, 2012)

I was plonked on the Work Program and had first meeting with advisor today. The usual 'tailored job advice' blah blah etc waffle. 

Strangest part though for me was when advisor, after I'd asked for her email address, went online to Yahoo email. I thought how odd for a big company like Ingeus *spit* to use Yahoo for advisor emails.

Then I realised she was actually MAKING ME A YAHOO EMAIL APPLICATION without even asking my permission and filling in all my personal details! 

I had to stop her in her tracks and let her know that I already have my own email address... or ten.. and no way would I use YAHOO let alone give her permission to just make me one out of the blue!

Has anyone else had their WP advisor try and, or, actually do this?

Bluddy liberty takers..!eleven!!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 26, 2012)

I have a meeting tomorrow with an organisation of Prospects, who are subcontractors of Seetec. I missed two appointments with them already as they sent me the details of the meetings to me by snail mail to somewhere I no longer live, instead of emailing me or calling me, so not the best start.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm surprised they haven't sanctioned you for their error OU. 

I think I'm already off on the wrong foot for refusing to sign their agreement to share my info and letting her know I follow the Welfare Reform Act, am an activist on Workfare, Work Providers, Work Capability Testing and various other Tory driven DWP policies. 

Well she did ask what I tend to do with my spare time...


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 26, 2012)

Just had my first meeting with them and my feelings are mixed.
The staff there seem mostly young, keen and friendly, but inexperienced.
The fella I spoke to mumbled loads, esp when he was clearly reciting things he's been taught. He also kept breaking off to speak to colleagues on unrelated matters, even when I was in the middle of talking to him. He was a nice guy but clearly inexperienced with customers. I also had to help him out with spelling a couple of times.
It doesn't surprise me that at a subcontractor of a government scheme can't be bothered to train their staff properly though.
The software they were using to input data was shockingly basic and took ages to process each entry. While this was happening, he would look at emails in another window. I saw a private email about a client with an informal criticism of their attitude in very unprofessional language. I shouldn't have been able to see it at all, so they also need training on how to be discrete as well as other basic customer awareness skills.
However, they gave me more guidance and information than the job centre ever did, listened to me more about what I wanted to do and even suggested I try something that I hadn't considered before. They also provide free continuous access to the Internet to apply for jobs, which is great as local libraries are pretty useless.
So I feel a lot better coming out than i did going in.
BTW I signed the DPA consent form.
What bad thing will happen to me now?


----------



## BigTom (Jun 26, 2012)

Not signing the DPA consent form would mean they can't send you out on work assignments I think - you can withdraw your consent at any time though.. again www.consent.me.uk has the details about how to do this.
So if you want to avoid something, have a look and withdraw your consent if it'll get you out of it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 3, 2012)

OK, so I've been issued a four week action plan, which contradicts my obligations to the DWP. I have to apply for 15 jobs, whereas DWP requires that I only do four things a week in actively seeking employment. I am applying for as many jobs as they've asked me to anyway, but that's not the point. I can get sanctioned by the DWP for not complying with the employment service contractor's demands, despite the fact that they contradict the DWP regulations. That's not right is it?

There's a bunch of other 'mandatory actions'.
Here's two of them, as listed on my action plan:
1. Who is responsible for health and safety?
2. What does equal opportunities mean to you?

That's a literal transcription. I have no idea whether the mandatory action is merely to answer those rather abstract questions or if I'm supposed to just familiarise myself with the employment law related to these issues. Whatever the case, these are not clear instructions, which is rather unreasonable considering non-compliance results in sanctions.

Another action required was for me to 'explore the Elvis System and browse through the different learning modules'
This is an online tutorial site that ostensibly helps you gain skills that will help you find employment but I found it less than helpful. 
For a start, it looks like it was designed by an idiot in 1997:
Image removed
There's even a grocer's apostrophe on the opening page:
(image removed as it has my real name on it.
Thanks to the person who pointed it out - I am unable to respond to your PM )
I decided to 'enrol' in the AIMS module: Actions to Inspire and Manage Success. There were other ones but they seemed to be for people who had never had a CV or been to an interview. I thought there was a small chance there might be some helpful info or advice in this module as I certainly could do with a bit of inspiration/motivation.
However, the setup is so cheap and shoddy that it was a complete waste of time. The course consists of video presentations and PDFs to print out. I spent two and half hours trying to watch two nine minute videos (there are quite a few more on the module). The computer kept crashing (at least a dozen times on one and a few more on two others I switched to).
So you can imagine how annoyed I was to see this come up:
Image removed
Of course it crashed immediately after telling me not to let anything stop me and I had to start all over again.
Image removed 
Yeah, right!
 
This online service is staggeringly cheap and perfunctory. Will it help anyone find work? Not me for sure.
I wasted an afternoon doing this. I am sure searching for an actual job would have been a better use of my time.

ETA: I have taken the images out cos it seems this forum is publically viewable/searchable. Sorry this post no longer makes sense


----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 3, 2012)

You are being re-programmed OU.. Ingeus doesn't do any of that up here in scotland. Mostly chat with an advisor like in JC+ then a rummage on the machines for work. 
I've not been able to go for a month as there's been staff holidays.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 3, 2012)

Yeah, these courses and the setup really doesn't work for many people.  One might almost think that the people who set it up had the impression that anyone who was unemployed was a lazy, feckless scrounger who had never worked in their life and then decided to put out the contract to the cheapest bidders who will do a shoddy efficient job.
oh.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 3, 2012)

btw OU, you probably know this but the only "correct" answer to give to the question "who is responsible for health and safety" is "Everyone".  Which is true, but some people have more responsibility than others... 
If you want to learn about health and safety, I can highly recommend spending a couple of hours browsing the HSE site, specifically this section where they spent time dismissing HSE myths:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/mythofthemonth.htm

I can pretty well promise you that it'll teach you more about H&S than anything on their VLE and I've not seen what they have on their vle lol.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 3, 2012)

I've been on H&E and Equal Opps seminars before, so I'm already reasonably familiar. Will have a look though, ta!


----------



## BigTom (Aug 3, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I've been on H&E and Equal Opps seminars before, so I'm already reasonably familiar. Will have a look though, ta!


 
It's just for fun really, all those h&s gorn maaaad stories debunked.. but actually teaches you a fair amount about the sensible way the HSE approaches h&s and the stupid ways it's used as an excuse by others.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 4, 2012)

You could always play the 'fake slightly confused' card and ask them (obviously in a slightly confused Tim-nice-but-dim way) why what they want you to do differs from what the DWP says you should do.

As for the computers crashing, they could be a) virus laden, b) not up to spec or c) both.


----------



## extra dry (Aug 4, 2012)

Also a possibility that the government just want to keep the majority of the unemployed..err unemployed for the time being.  Hope things get better OU.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 16, 2012)

The WP action plan require me to apply for more jobs than the JSA does, so contradicts it. How does that work? Can I legally be sanctioned for doing more than is required by the JSA.
Does one contract trump another?
It looks like I have to apply for a whole bunch of jobs I don't want, just to avoid another sanction.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm sure I've seen this same question come up somewhere else and the answer is that yes the WP can make you do more applications than you are required by your job seekers agreement, and you can be sanctioned if you only meet the requirements of the JSA and not of the WP.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 19, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> The WP action plan require me to apply for more jobs than the JSA does, so contradicts it. How does that work? Can I legally be sanctioned for doing more than is required by the JSA.
> Does one contract trump another?
> It looks like I have to apply for a whole bunch of jobs I don't want, just to avoid another sanction.





BigTom said:


> I'm sure I've seen this same question come up somewhere else and the answer is that yes the WP can make you do more applications than you are required by your job seekers agreement, and you can be sanctioned if you only meet the requirements of the JSA and not of the WP.


Which is ridiculous when you think about it.

When do you next see your JC advisor - I'd raise it with them.


----------



## kate santos (Aug 24, 2012)

*Has anyone been put on this?*
*I just have and it looks like a scam for the government to save money and elude its responsibilities.*
*Or is it a constructive and helpful programme that will help me find gainful, satisfactory employment? *
*If anyone has any experience and/or advice for dealing with these private 'providers', please share your thoughts!*​I've been registered with pertemps on the work programme, for the last year i've been going there, for 8 months patted on the head given an appointment for 2 weeks, i made a complaint about being put to one side, why they cherry picked, and when there advisor told me he couldnt find me a job, and there was no incentive for them to get the unemployed back into work. im registered disabled with a chronic long term illness as well as cancer. my last job was a 4 month temporary one which ended in january 2012.  i was called into the office yesterday by an area manager, talked to like i was an imbecile, and then told do you really want to work? and that i was making my health an issue not to get back into work.  to say im p*ssed off is an understatement, ive called my doctors surgery today and they are disgusted. ​I can honestly say the jobcentre have given me more advise, and have been more helpful than these muppets will ever be. ​the jobcentre have told me i need some kind of work experience to find out what job i would be best suited to, which to me is a good idea.​what have the muppets said: ​*1. they will put me for job match, which basically flags all the jobs 30+ hours in my area, great if im a bricklayer...........*​*2. they want me to go back to college to do IT2 ( i just finished college in april doing IT1)*​*3. they will only offer me 1 day job training, before i have to attend for an interview*​*4.   Look at re-employ contacts?  Are they not sacking re-employ according to the news they are.... 5.  look at supportive employers if they had them on the books why hasn't that been mentioned to me in the last 12 months.     So after all this and being verbally abused she then says "we both have to work together and i have to trust them" i tend not to trust people who call me a malinger, i wish i could transfer", cant wait till september 2013 when im out of there.....*​


----------



## ddraig (Aug 24, 2012)

formatted it a bit for you, feel free to copy it into your post (no words changed, just text sizes)



			
				kate santos said:
			
		

> Has anyone been put on this?
> I just have and it looks like a scam for the government to save money and elude its responsibilities.
> Or is it a constructive and helpful programme that will help me find gainful, satisfactory employment?
> 
> ...


----------



## Malayan Jelutong (Oct 1, 2012)

I've just joined this site to post here. I was told today that my JSA will be stopped if I start the work programme. At the minute, i live with my girlfriend who has a job but hasn't started it yet. She's not sure when it starts because the HR at her place of work are taking their time, and although she definitely has the job, she won't know when she's starting until they tell her. It's already been two months because of the nature of her job (lots of checks, CRB etc) but I was told today that once she starts, my claim will be stopped and I'll be moved onto the work programme. 

I'm desperate for any information on this, does anyone know if this is true? 

As for the work programme, I'm not sure what to expect. I've been to tonnes of these 'work' seminars and none have been remotely helpful. I've unemployed for a year and been genuinely looking for work. As I moved to a new city with my GF, who at the time was studying a masters, I don't know anyone in the area and so it's been even more difficult to get a job because there's no 'word of mouth' job vacancies. Frankly, I'm sick of it, being in a foreign (to me) city and living in solitude on a pittance is hard enogh without being sent to work in a supermarket for no wage.

I'm rambling now, I'll stop!


----------



## cesare (Oct 1, 2012)

Confusion reigns.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Oct 1, 2012)

My last post on this thread was 3rd Aug when it had been four weeks since I'd seen my WP advisor. It's now 1st Oct and still not heard a thing from them.


----------



## Greebo (Oct 1, 2012)

pastcaring said:


> I've just joined this site to post here. I was told today that my JSA will be stopped if I start the work programme. At the minute, i live with my girlfriend who has a job but hasn't started it yet. She's not sure when it starts because the HR at her place of work are taking their time, and although she definitely has the job, she won't know when she's starting until they tell her. It's already been two months because of the nature of her job (lots of checks, CRB etc) but I was told today that once she starts, my claim will be stopped and I'll be moved onto the work programme.
> 
> I'm desperate for any information on this, does anyone know if this is true?<snip>


First stop, CAB as soon as you can.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 1, 2012)

pastcaring said:


> I've just joined this site to post here. I was told today that my JSA will be stopped if I start the work programme. At the minute, i live with my girlfriend who has a job but hasn't started it yet. She's not sure when it starts because the HR at her place of work are taking their time, and although she definitely has the job, she won't know when she's starting until they tell her. It's already been two months because of the nature of her job (lots of checks, CRB etc) but I was told today that once she starts, my claim will be stopped and I'll be moved onto the work programme.
> 
> I'm desperate for any information on this, does anyone know if this is true?
> 
> ...


 
As Greebo said, CAB best place to go first, what you've been told sounds a bit odd tbh and I think you should speak to someone who really knows the system.

If you do get sent on the work programme, have a look at www.donotsign.com for information on your rights and documents you don't need to sign which will make it harder for them to do things, particularly work placements.

Also, there is already a member posting here called "past caring" (with a space), so it might be worth asking one of the mods (Editor, or anyone with a red username) about changing it so people don't get confused


----------



## Malayan Jelutong (Oct 1, 2012)

Thank you BigTom, it's nice to be listened to.

And I'll change my username (and I thought I was so original).


----------



## stuff_it (Oct 1, 2012)

If your claim has been stopped because your girlfriend is working then surely they can't make you do the work program as if you don't have a claim there is fuck all they can do to make you? 

I know it may be a struggle to get by on your girlfriend's wages but technically that's what you're meant to do if one partner is working. I know it's properly shit finding work, I was looking in two different cities for over 12 months before starting uni and despite 15 years of work experience in various industries all I managed to get was about three weeks in a warehouse at xmas.


----------



## Malayan Jelutong (Oct 1, 2012)

Ah! You see, they didn't explain that. They made out that my benefit would be stopped even if she hadn't started her job. I'm going to have to get some clarification from them or CAB. Anyway, thanks to you all, I feel a lot less stressed.


----------



## stuff_it (Oct 1, 2012)

Malayan Jelutong said:


> Ah! You see, they didn't explain that. They made out that my benefit would be stopped even if she hadn't started her job. I'm going to have to get some clarification from them or CAB. Anyway, thanks to you all, I feel a lot less stressed.


Are you signing on for both of you? If she really genuinely has a job offer where she would earn too much for you to sign on then I am pretty sure that they are unlikely to put you on the work program even if it's you that is signing on for both of you. I'd suggest taking your girlfriend in with you and any proof she has that she is starting work soon next time you sign on, as you signing off due to her working is likely to mean they take the pressure off. They were really nice to me all summer when they knew I was starting university, and I overheard them telling another claimant who had just finished teacher training and was waiting for term to start exactly what to put on his weekly agreement thingy to not get his money stopped until the last minute. If they know you will be off their books and counted as a 'success' in their figures they are normally happy with that - they don't really give a shit if you have a job or not.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 4, 2012)

The Work Programme is a total waste of money, as far as I have experienced it. It's just like signing on twice basically. You now have to tell both the private company hired to help you find work AND the DWP what you have been doing to find work, with very little help (none from the DWP) from them to achieve this. I have somewhere to go to use PCs to find work, but the advisors do little to no advising. The working environment in the office I go to is almost impossible to work in. The office is in a recently refurbished block that is still undergoing major refurbishment and there is work going on in the underground station underneath, so there is constant hammering and drilling and noise and dust. The advisors chat to each other all day in a very unprofessional manner and Iast week I was forced to listen to a distressed woman complaining to management about lack of support and sanctions. She was in a separate office, but the door was open and everyone could hear her disagreement with the staff. I don't think the people who run the centre are bad people, just that they haven't been trained to do their jobs as evidently no money has been spent on their training. It's a shittily-ran cheapskate two bit sub-contractor working on a tiny budget for unfathomable targets, so it's no wonder that they aren't effective.
Neither the DWP or The Work Programme contractors are doing what they claim they are for - getting people back to work. The WP exists to juke the stats and get people off the books without necessarily finding them work. The DWP has always done this well enough (ha!) themselves, so the WP is a completely superfluous 'service'. Time to the Government to do another U-turn!


----------



## Greebo (Oct 4, 2012)

BTW that got a "like" not because of the extreme mediocrity of what it delivers, but because it's useful to have a first hand account of what it's like and how effective it is.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 7, 2012)

I missed another appointment again with them due to them not updating their database and sending letters to my old address AND my ex-flatmate failing to let me know about new mail or forward it on.  I nearly had a heart attack yesterday when i opened the letter, but i steamed over there to sort it out, so fingers crossed no sanction again. Still, I don't trust them for this not to happen again though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 12, 2012)

today i went on a Job Search Practical and Theory Workshop.
Some good advice but nothing much new.
Some terrible advice too. I got told not to mention having a degree if I was applying for jobs that don't require one. So how do you explain the 3 year gap? 
I also got told to cold call loads of firms and get to know the receptionists (otherwise known as GATEKEEPERS), finding stuff out about them so you can ask about them at a later date - 'so, how's your ulcer?' <<<<<<ACTUAL QUOTE


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 12, 2012)

BTW this column about being on the work programme is insightful, informative and hilarious.
I wish i had written it:
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/14793/1/the-seeker-1-rejected-unknown
http://www.dazeddigital.com/photography/article/14911/1/the-seeker-2-lost-and-found
http://www.dazeddigital.com/mobile/artsandculture/article/15007/1/the-seeker-3-living-life


----------



## stuff_it (Nov 12, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> BTW this column about being on the work programme is insightful, informative and hilarious.
> I wish i had written it:
> http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/14793/1/the-seeker-1-rejected-unknown
> http://www.dazeddigital.com/photography/article/14911/1/the-seeker-2-lost-and-found
> http://www.dazeddigital.com/mobile/artsandculture/article/15007/1/the-seeker-3-living-life


The end of the first one reminds me of applying for Boots, lol.


----------



## andy6863 (Nov 15, 2012)

BigTom said:


> Not signing the DPA consent form would mean they can't send you out on work assignments I think - you can withdraw your consent at any time though.. again www.consent.me.uk has the details about how to do this.
> So if you want to avoid something, have a look and withdraw your consent if it'll get you out of it.


Seetec work program are their for only one reason and one reason only – TO STOP YOUR BENEFITS – and they will do that any way they can.
my experiences with a seetec in an office in cambridgeshire is even if go sick for the 2hrs you will lose your benefit / have a sanction.and as for voluntary work, well it isn’t is it, how can voluntary mean compulsary? if you do not do or refuse to do this voluntary work you will have sanctions and you benefit stopped, holding this against the very vulnerable in this society is scandulous, where are all these jobs seetec seem to think are out there? there aint any!


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 15, 2012)

why does this appear in watched threads with an apparent new post, but when i click on it, there is no new post? has someone posted and then thought better of it?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 15, 2012)

oh, weird, as soon as i replied the post appeared!
ignore me!


----------



## Greebo (Nov 15, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> oh, weird, as soon as i replied the post appeared!
> ignore me!


Weird that your post and the one by andy6863 are both post 61.  I think the software or server might have wobbled slightly.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 15, 2012)

it's worth highlighting the C4 Factcheck linked to in one of the Dazed blogs:
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-is-the-work-programme-worse-than-nothing/10915
as the blog says: 


> As if to prove how hopeless the situation is, the government has set providers of the work programme dismally low standards. They’re only asking work-programme providers –companies and charities like Seetec and Working Links – to get the same number of people into work who would have found work without their help, which is 28%. But they’re not even hitting that target. Their average is 24%. So...they’re worse than useless


----------



## BigTom (Nov 15, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> it's worth highlighting the C4 Factcheck linked to in one of the Dazed blogs:
> http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-is-the-work-programme-worse-than-nothing/10915
> as the blog says:


 
Yep, it's an interesting statistic.. and they've been delaying releasing more ever since (the A4e 4% into lasting work stat came from leaked documents).
iirc IDS' response to this evidence was "I have faith the Work Programme is doing a good job"... that may have been his response to some other statistical evidence that something he is doing is failing though. Faith based policy making


----------



## han7s (Jan 23, 2014)

i am on this shit. its awful to go there iv'e had 2 advisor's and i liked my first one better, he's friendlier and more helpful than the other one

Today he told me I need to get "smart" clothes for tomorrow, gee thanks for the heads up. so I had to treck away far to get clothes, plus tomorrow I have to go around my city and ask for vacancies. That's quite hard for me b/c i have bad social skills, he seems to think I have I nothing better to do than to go in to Ingeus and sit a computer for 4 hours without even a word. 
Yes i fill out applications but he seems to forget that not all employers write back! plus i think he should see how degrading it is phoning up places and begging for employment then to only hear a "no" on the phone.

He mentioned if i called 30 businesses that i would get a job, surprise fucking surprise i am still on the fucking jobseekers. it's a lot of BS.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 23, 2014)

han7s said:


> i am on this shit. its awful to go there iv'e had 2 advisor's and i liked my first one better, he's friendlier and more helpful than the other one
> 
> Today he told me I need to get "smart" clothes for tomorrow, gee thanks for the heads up. so I had to treck away far to get clothes, plus tomorrow I have to go around my city and ask for vacancies. That's quite hard for me b/c i have bad social skills, he seems to think I have I nothing better to do than to go in to Ingeus and sit a computer for 4 hours without even a word.
> Yes i fill out applications but he seems to forget that not all employers write back! plus i think he should see how degrading it is phoning up places and begging for employment then to only hear a "no" on the phone.
> ...


Sorry to hear you're caught up in this. It's important to know what they can and can't force you to do so its worth doing some research. A couple of websites for starters:
http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?page_id=1820
http://www.solfed.org.uk/unwaged-workers/factsheet-5-kinds-of-workfare
http://refuted.org.uk/
http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/

Good luck with escaping their clutches


----------



## devit (Jan 28, 2014)

han7s said:


> i am on this shit. its awful to go there iv'e had 2 advisor's and i liked my first one better, he's friendlier and more helpful than the other one
> 
> Today he told me I need to get "smart" clothes for tomorrow, gee thanks for the heads up. so I had to treck away far to get clothes, plus tomorrow I have to go around my city and ask for vacancies. That's quite hard for me b/c i have bad social skills, he seems to think I have I nothing better to do than to go in to Ingeus and sit a computer for 4 hours without even a word.
> Yes i fill out applications but he seems to forget that not all employers write back! plus i think he should see how degrading it is phoning up places and begging for employment then to only hear a "no" on the phone.
> ...



Hope you get out of this hell soon. I was a "customer"  of A4e for a year until recently finding a job (thank god). I HATE them with a passion. Even though I got a job in November and said I didn't want "continued support" (I didn't get any the first place you shitheads  ) they continue to call me. 2 weeks ago I told them I'd actually now got a job in HK and they still want to keep in touch  I did ask if they couldn't help me in London, what the fuck did they expect to do for me in HK????

Sorry a bit ranty but, my god, I hate them so very much!

Also I received this. I was very careful when I had to sign up to these muppets to avoid giving them permission to freely pass around my data to all and sundry. Per the attached, looks like they can now treat 'customers' with yet more derision and taking control away from them, by calling employers without their consent.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 28, 2014)

That's got to be worth a legal challenge surely, wouldn't surprise me if the DWP / IDS had just decided that they have this legal authority, which from my IANAL understanding of the DPA shouldn't be possible. might be worth someone who has had this letter contacting Public Interest Lawyers and asking them to have a look at the legal basis for this decision - they took the workfare case to court and would be a good firm to contact for this I reckon.


----------



## stuff_it (Jan 28, 2014)

devit said:


> Hope you get out of this hell soon. I was a "customer"  of A4e for a year until recently finding a job (thank god). I HATE them with a passion. Even though I got a job in November and said I didn't want "continued support" (I didn't get any the first place you shitheads  ) they continue to call me. 2 weeks ago I told them I'd actually now got a job in HK and they still want to keep in touch  I did ask if they couldn't help me in London, what the fuck did they expect to do for me in HK????
> 
> Sorry a bit ranty but, my god, I hate them so very much!
> 
> Also I received this. I was very careful when I had to sign up to these muppets to avoid giving them permission to freely pass around my data to all and sundry. Per the attached, looks like they can now treat 'customers' with yet more derision and taking control away from them, by calling employers without their consent.


Presumably they get paid for each client on the work program each month or week, so why would they want to let you off just because you went and got a job?


----------



## BigTom (Jan 28, 2014)

stuff_it said:


> Presumably they get paid for each client on the work program each month or week, so why would they want to let you off just because you went and got a job?



Nah, payment by results, they get paid when people get onto a job, and get an initial fee if the claimant is in a hard to find with category like on ESA or maybe under 25 (I can't remember what the categories are).

Sounds like a good payment method but creates its own set of perverse incentives, so if you're in one of the groups with an upfront payment and they don't reckon you've much chance of getting work they'll ignore you (called parking), and they get paid even if they didn't do anything to help you get the job you've found.


----------



## stuff_it (Jan 28, 2014)

BigTom said:


> Nah, payment by results, they get paid when people get onto a job, and get an initial fee if the claimant is in a hard to find with category like on ESA or maybe under 25 (I can't remember what the categories are).
> 
> Sounds like a good payment method but creates its own set of perverse incentives, so if you're in one of the groups with an upfront payment and they don't reckon you've much chance of getting work they'll ignore you (called parking), and they get paid even if they didn't do anything to help you get the job you've found.


Perhaps it's to do with the level of proof required to get a payment for getting someone in to work then.


----------



## nogojones (Jan 28, 2014)

On the other side of the fence, if you do get a job, it might be worthwhile to write to your HR dept informing them that you do not give your consent to share your information with the DWP or any WP providers - Name them explicitly. You can tell them that you are concerned about the DWPs use of your personal data given their far from exemplary history of data protection. I don't know how effective that would be, but it might be another angle to fuck WP providers up by denying them evidence of your employment, which means no payments for the provider.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 28, 2014)

stuff_it said:


> Perhaps it's to do with the level of proof required to get a payment for getting someone in to work then.



The DPA stuff is yeah, because the WP provider wasn't allowed to contact your employer to check you have remained in employment (they get a big payment if you stay in a job for 6 months iirc).
I dunno how many people withheld their consent but I'm guessing it's enough that the big providers are seeing it in their bottom line.
Also may be the DWP trying to get the numbers up on people finding work from the WP.


----------



## nogojones (Jan 28, 2014)

BigTom said:


> The DPA stuff is yeah, because the WP provider wasn't allowed to contact your employer to check you have remained in employment (they get a big payment if you stay in a job for 6 months iirc).
> I dunno how many people withheld their consent but I'm guessing it's enough that the big providers are seeing it in their bottom line.
> Also may be the DWP trying to get the numbers up on people finding work from the WP.



For DWP providers their biggest challenge is getting appropriate evidence of jobstarts and sustained employment. They need hard evidence of you working from your employer. I guess the WP jobstart figures are still pretty shitty. When they were tendering for the contracts they were looking at 40-60% of punters gaining and sustaining employment (dependant on what stream they came from, e.g. 18-24, 25+, ex IB etc...). they got no chance of getting anywhere near those figures, so they'll be struggling, or passing the pain down to their smaller subcontractors that are often charities. They can get fucked as well. Any charity that is engaging in this needs burning out.

They'll be desperate to chase every potential jobstart for evidence and I guess there's political pressure there as well. This was a flagship programme


----------



## steve mohan (Feb 19, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Has anyone been put on this?
> I just have and it looks like a scam for the government to save money and elude its responsibilities.
> Or is it a constructive and helpful programme that will help me find gainful, satisfactory employment?
> Has any one been on the mandatory three week "post work programme", course run by intraining at newcastle college? I have just wasted Three weeks of my Life on it, it is the worst exsseses of a4e compressed into a short time it is staffed by, well you tell me,
> ...


----------



## steve mohan (Feb 19, 2014)

Has any one been on the mandatory three week course run by intraining at newcastle college? I have just wasted Three weeks of my Life on it, it is the worst exsseses of a4e compressed into a short time it is staffed by, well you tell me,
*Spencer Morgan. *formerly of a4e,who informed us that Northumbria Water use chloroform to purify the tap water. He is incapable of listening to anyone, dispite telling us to respect other peoples point of view, he had no control over the group whatsoever, he tended to waste a lot of time trying to calm the chaos he caused.
*Paul Blackburn.* He introduced himself by saying "if you work me the wrong way there will only be one winner,so dont do it, to be fair this did give him a measure of control over the disruptive element,but it was in empty threat, he still had an elemen of roudynes, one lad saked about the fork lift course, he said"dont do the fork lift course as, it is no good to you" while turning a blind eye to a canibis smoking incident. and an incident of sexual harrasment of which the girl in question had to deal with herself. 
and the star of the show another a4e reject *Cripps Nyanhete* a man in a league of his own, he asks a question then buts in or even turns away when you attempt to answer so you just stop answering, he is arogant in the extreme, he would be better qualified teaching Disorganisation, we all complained about him to his manager she made notes, if she said anything to him he did not bother listening to her aswell. we sat what was discribed as an acredited test (*Btec. level 3, job search)* to which he told us what answers to write.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 19, 2014)

wise to name people?


----------



## Fez909 (Mar 24, 2014)

When do they leave you alone? I'm in my fourth week at my job now and they keep ringing me and texting me to ask how I'm getting along in work. They didn't give me any money for clothes, and I've already got my bus fares from them, so what else do they think they can do for me...or me for them!?


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2014)

They stopped phoning after about nine months!


----------



## Jackobi (Mar 24, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> ...so what else do they think they can do for me...or me for them!?



They will be claiming their job outcome and sustainment payments because you found a job when on the work programme, you are still worth money to them even though you are employed.


----------



## Fez909 (Mar 24, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> They stopped phoning after about nine months!





Jackobi said:


> They will be claiming their job outcome and sustainment payments because you found a job when on the work programme, you are still worth money to them even though you are employed.


I suspected this was the case but thought it wouldn't be for long. Not as long as OU just mentioned anyway!!


----------



## AnnaKarpik (Mar 26, 2014)

Oddly, newharper had a call today from the people running his work programme. They saw him once over 18 months ago and sent him back to the jobcentre. When he asked this woman what business of hers it was whether he was in work or not she replied that they were [still] supporting him back into work.* And she is going to tell the jobcentre how rude he was to her.

*edited highlights


----------



## far (Apr 3, 2014)

From 20 September to now still waiting for the answer to the question why Mr David Ward (Intraining Hull) sign me off from by work programme for under 16 hours. Went I was working for zone hours job and he had the hours i have work for 2 weeks.

Why is Easter McVey doing anything about intraining hull sign people off the work programme for doing under 16 hours? Letter to her from Alan Johnson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Rt Hon Alan Johnson MP*
Hull West and Hessle
House of Commons: 020 7219 1305/6637
Web: www.alanjohnson.org

20th February 2014

Dear Esther

Please see the attached email from my constituent, ##############

I would be grateful if you could address the issues ##### has encountered whilst on a Work Programme provided by Intraining.

I look forward to hearing from you.


Yours sincerely,







Rt Hon Alan Johnson MP
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email to her from me.
To Esther McVey the Minister in charge of work programmes.

Letter from Rt Alan Johnson MP to you (attachment 22 and 23)

Why sign me off intraining for under 16 hours,if not for money from the government.

I am still waiting for clarification off if you are doing the full investigate on UK intraining. If you are not investigate on intraining, I like clarification by email or letter please.

I also like clarification of the end of the case if you are doing anything.

Please see all attached.

Thank you for your time, I hope to hear from you by the end of the workday on Friday 14 March 2014. By email or letter. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
To John 

On the 5 August 2013 6-2pm at greencore On the 6 August 2013 I went to intraining to take my job search log to Mr David Ward. He wrote down my mobile phone number and the hour I work for week  1  7.30 hours and week  2  11 hours . Mr David Ward signs me off intraining for less than 16 hours. (see attachment 1 and 2) and copy of intraining complaint process.

My next appointment at 12pm on 2 September 2013 at intraining the receptionist said I was not down on the list and not on intraining computer. Mr David Ward email me the same day at 16:28 to please contact me as a matter of urgency. I call Mr David  Ward he said I was not on intraining computer, I ask my I was not on the computer, he did not answer, he ask for my payslip and CV with new mobile number the number on the CV is 00000000000. (see attachment 3 and 4)

I email Mr Phil Bonell managing director on 20 September 2013 for an investigation and explanation why I was signs me off intraining for less than 16 hours. With my mobile number on it. A woman from intraining caller from her mobile, the number is 07879 488324 at 11.06am on 23 September 2013 to my number 000000000. She was to call back with the answer to question. She did not call back with the answer to the question.  ( see attachment 5) 

On the 10 October 2013 I email jobcentreplus. To complaint my benefits being mixed up because the action of Mr David Ward signs me off intraining for less than 16 hours. I have to live on less money and food, three day I had no food. So intraining can claim money of the government. They need to look up the word helpful. Jobcentreplus call intraining for an investigating. Letter from intraining 0n 23 October 2013. (see attachment 6 and 7)

On 11 November 2013 a letter from Mr David Ward about the exit report. I email for my exit report on 13 November 2013 at 1.33pm, still waiting for the exit report have sent on emails for it. Why do Government pay intraining for all the victims who get sent to intraining for monthly appointment. (see attachment 8 and 9)

On the 13 November 2013 I email intraining for answer to questions. On 18 November 2013 I email ice, they call intraining. Date the same day the 18 November 2013 the letter from intraining. (see attachment 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)

Letter to Tracy Windle on 25 November 2013 and email on 29 November 2013. Alan Johnson personal secretary at Goodwin centre.

On 3 December 2013 I email Mr Alan Johnson (MP), you caller on 10 December 2013 at 11.37am and you caller intraining. You called back same day at 11.53am and you said I was entitled to have a witness with me and stenographer.  (see attachment 15)

On the 8 January 2014 I email intraining. (see attachment 16)

On the 20 January 2014 I email Mr Alan Johnson. (see attachment 17)

O n the 20 January 2014 you caller intraining and I got an email from Jennifer Longden and letter sent the same date. With lie on both email and letter. You call at 4.24pm the same day. (see attachment 18 19 20 21)

I think they had no intention of arrange this meeting with my witness and stenographer. Because they are guilty.

I would like a full investigate on intraining UK by the Government Department who paid intraining for people who get 16 hours or more. I have no intention to waste more time on this case. I will go public and let the world know the truth. Why is the government letting intraining investigating themselves? 

I like clarification on this email if the government are investigating intraining. By email or letter please.

I also like clarification of the information of the end of the case and what action is done to stop intraining from signing people off for doing under 16 hours. By email or letter please.

Thank you for your time, I hope to hear from you soon in the next 4 week.

apply
Dear Ms rrrrrrr,

Please see the attached letter that Mr Johnson has sent to Esther McVey, the Minister in charge of Work Programmes.

I will be in touch once we have had a reply.


Best wishes,


John


John Mckenna

Office of *RT Hon Alan Johnson MP*

020 7219 1305
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intraining trying to claim for outcome fee from the government . 

The victims have they money go wrong and live on less money for three weeks. Holding the money for overpayment and the victims have to go to Citizen Advice, to get the money back from DWP.

Why sign me off intraining work programme if not for the intention to claim money for government?

They such be a document to sign for the customer (the victims) went they get 16 hours or more, from intraining so they cannot sign the victims off till they have done 16 hours or more.

The taxpayer-funded employment schemes pay to pay for work programme like intraining. Why is the government letting work programme investigate themselves.


----------



## Bitter&Twisted (Apr 3, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> They stopped phoning after about nine months!



I'm still being hounded eighteen months later.  The work programme arseholes did nothing to help me into work and the job I signed off to take was offered to me by an old work colleague.  So they've done nothing to earn their money.  I explained to them last April that the role changed from full-time to part-time and that hasn't changed so I'm not responding to their calls any more.  They can go fuck themselves.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 3, 2014)

Bitter&Twisted said:


> *I'm still being hounded eighteen months later.*  The work programme arseholes did nothing to help me into work and the job I signed off to take was offered to me by an old work colleague.  So they've done nothing to earn their money.  I explained to them last April that the role changed from full-time to part-time and that hasn't changed so I'm not responding to their calls any more.  They can go fuck themselves.



Use this letter to withdraw consent to your Work Programme Provider.
http://refuted.org.uk/2013/10/12/withhold/

Also, insist that they remove any contact telephone numbers they may have stored on electronic databases or structured filing systems. Threaten them with a Stage One formal Data Protection Act (1998) related complaint.
You can find out what personal data they hold about you by issuing them with a Subject Access Request (SAR).

Hope that is of some help.


----------



## far (Apr 9, 2014)

*E-mail on 9.4.2014

To Esther McVey*

*please read all attachment i have sent you before.*

*From 20 September to now still waiting for the answer to the question why Mr David 
Ward (Intraining Hull) sign me off from by work programme for under 16 hours?  *

*Went I was working for zero hour’s job and he had the hours I have work for 2 weeks. They tell the people at work programme they do not get money from the government if you get a job. But they do get attachment fee, job outcome payment and sustainment outcome payment. They put a gun to your head for you to apply for zero hour’s job. They was a woman in my group who had appointment and he need a doctor note from her, if she was not to go for the interview for the zero hour's job in intraining building.*

*Why are them making people go for zero hour's jobs?
You said JSA claimant are not required to apply for zero hour's contract jobs. On the web sitepublications.parliament.uk *

*Why are you the Minister in charge of Work Programmes.
Doing anything about intraining hull sign people off from the work programme for doing under 16 hours?*

*Intraining trying to claim for outcome fee from the government. The victims have the money go wrong and live on less money for three weeks. Holding the money for overpayment and the victims has to go to Citizen Advice, to get the money back from DWP.*

*Why sign me off intraining work programme if not for the intention to claim money for government?*

*They such be a document to sign for the customer (the victims) went they get 16 hours or more, from the work programme so they cannot sign the victims off till they have done 16 hours or more. Why is there not a document for the customer to sign?*

*The taxpayer-funded employment schemes pay to pay for work programme like intraining. Why is the government letting work programme investigate themselves for anything?*

I would like answer to the question please. By email or letter. I hope to hear from you soon.

Thank you for your time.

If i get no reply, what can i do next anyone?


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 9, 2014)

They are not going to reply to that.


----------



## far (Apr 9, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> They are not going to reply to that.


Why?


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 9, 2014)

far said:


> Why?


It reads like a green-inked score-settling rant. And the questions you ask seem to be rhetorical.
If you are going to send something like that, get someone to proofread it as there are a lot of errors. And never send an email in bold. It just looks like you are shouting. 
I wouldn't name people in public like that either. Could get you in trouble.


----------



## Greebo (Apr 9, 2014)

Avoid saying "I hope to hear from you soon",  it's wishy washy.  You need to be clear and concise, these people are busy and tend to be a bit careless.

"I would appreciate a written reply within ten working days" sets a deadline and defines the action you expect, in a way which is harder to ignore.  Always in writing, never by email; this makes it easier to follow up if you have to take this further.

Keep copies of what you send, and send everything "signed for" (orange label) if you can afford to.  This makes it far more difficult to deny receipt of the letter, and leaves you able to say "No problem, I kept a copy and I'll send you that.".  

Always sign off this type of letter with "Yours faithfully" if it began with "Dear sir or madam",  or "Yours sincerely" if you used their surname ("Dear Mary Smith") or anything else ("Dear Minister").  This makes it clear that you expect to be treated in a professional manner and you are not going to be fobbed off with a few words.


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 9, 2014)

More bother from them today and yesterday. Just fuck off will ya 




			
				Ingeus said:
			
		

> Hi there, this is Millicent from the Ingeus In Work Support Team. I called to see how you are getting on in work. If you require any advice or guidance relating to your job, please contact us on 0121 386 6979 or 0800 321 3136. We are open Mon - Fri 8am to 8pm, and Saturdays 9.15-1pm, thanks.






			
				Ingeus said:
			
		

> Hi Fez909 how is the job comming , when is it ok to call you ? Richard Ingeus






			
				Me said:
			
		

> The job is fine thanks. Really enjoying it. What do you need to call me about?






			
				Ingeus said:
			
		

> Hi Its just part of our in work support but if your happy with exchanging txt's that's fine , I get the feeling that your thriving in the role ? Richard


wtf  "Thriving in the role"? It's a fucking phone answering job 

He seemed like an alright bloke so I don't want to be a twat but I just want to tell him to leave me the fuck alone. I'm not interesting in "in work support" unless that includes paying for more bus fares or paying for some work clothes for me, neither of which have been offered. I didn't want to be on the work programme, and they didn't get me a job anyway. I had to point out to them that they were sat on the most suitable role for me without letting me know, while they sent me on pointless 'screenings' for properly shite jobs.

I don't need support now I'm in a job; I needed it when I wasn't. And when I was being fucked around by the JC+ and likes of his company.


----------



## savoloysam (Apr 10, 2014)

Sounds to me like they may be fishing for company contacts. They like to set up placement/employment schemes and such with employers.

Don't tell em anything even if they are being nice. Tell them you're too busy and they are going to get you in trouble.


----------



## xenon (Apr 10, 2014)

Just ignore them surely


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 10, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> More bother from them today and yesterday. Just fuck off will ya
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If they are calling you on your mobile just download an app that blocks numbers, many out there are free and they also work with text messages. I use this one;
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vladlee.easyblacklist
Personally, i would tell them to fuck off, they are nothing more than parasitical spivs.


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 10, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> If they are calling you on your mobile just download an app that blocks numbers, many out there are free and they also work with text messages. I use this one;
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vladlee.easyblacklist
> Personally, i would tell them to fuck off, they are nothing more than parasitical spivs.


Thanks, that looks useful!


----------



## leena (Apr 10, 2014)

rover07 said:


> Im on it. Its very good, kind of a cross between careers advice and counselling. Of course, i guess the firms vary in what they do.
> 
> I haven't worked for over 2 years now and haven't wanted to. But i may even get a job now.
> 
> My advisor seems cool and i think is genuinely trying to help me. I actually look forward to our fortnightly meetings.


 
That's so good to hear. Isn't it amazing what a difference a decent attitude from staff makes. generally I have found from my 6 months of JSA (after 20 years working) is institutionally negative and punitive.  If they treated everyone from a stance of 'here is a person with assets and resources, who is genuine in their efforts and can achieve anything with the right input etc etc" instead of which I've had "you and all the other jobseekers are lazy, dishonest, incapable and trying to rob the system"   shame that.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Apr 10, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> More bother from them today and yesterday. Just fuck off will ya
> 
> 
> 
> ...


they do this because they get a larger payment if they can show that you've obtained a "sustainable" job as a result of their intervention (whether their intervention was responsible for you getting the job in the first place or not). thus, WP providers will keep in touch with ex-WP attendees for up to 2 years since your first contact with them.


----------



## Tankus (Apr 17, 2014)

Job in superdrug ..£4 per hour full time , ? how is this even legal ?


----------



## nogojones (Apr 19, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> More bother from them today and yesterday. Just fuck off will ya
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm guessing this is part of what a WP provider will be audited on. They are getting paid for every month you are in work for over the next two years. They are being paid good money to help you sustain in employment. Now I may be wrong, but there's a very good chance that they need to demonstrate to DWP auditors that they are actually supporting your needs whilst in employment. They can evidence this with the logged phone calls, I reckon they'd need to do this monthly unless you had more complex needs.

How about this to fuck with their heads. Next time they call, tell them its all gone wrong! you shagged the bosses wife/husband and got sacked. It's all too much for you so you've moved down south - check what areas the main provider covers so you ain't covered by them. Tell them that you won't be signing on for JSA as you think the boss has friend who works for the DWP and you're scared for your life that they may track you down and you'll be living off the kindness of your family.

Not completely sure how their claims and finance systems work - they may be integrated with HMRC and get automatic payment based on NI data, they wanted to be able to do this, but given how effective HMRC is I doubt they've got a grip. Its more likely that they have to make a monthly claim based on knowledge of your employment (backed by evidence from you or your employers contact with them  but there's a chance that they may have to stop claiming you as an outcome. Block their number and don't respond to their texts, unless you want to in the style of a very paranoid person for the luls.


----------



## milson wilson (Jul 16, 2014)

Tankus said:


> Job in superdrug ..£4 per hour full time , ? how is this even legal ?


well its only legal if your under the age of 18 as the minimal wage for that group is £3.72


----------

