# Call to occupy Trafalgar Square today (2nd april)



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 2, 2011)

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/03/476861.html

Wording isn't perfect, possibly a little judgemental of last weeks activities for example. But hard not to back the thrust of the sentiment. Will it add up to a row of beans on the day though?


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## Dhimmi (Apr 2, 2011)

Dunno but good luck to all who try.


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## Greebo (Apr 2, 2011)

I can't be there, (too short notice and catching up after yesterday) but solidarity with those who are.


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## London_Calling (Apr 2, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Will it add up to a row of beans on the day though?


 
Of course not.


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## Obnoxiousness (Apr 2, 2011)

The thing is... do the authorities give a shit?  How will this ruin Cameron's day?  It won't.  He might hear about each protest, but it's hardly going to make him abandon the cuts.  

Any protest is meaningless if the government are not going to be moved.


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## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2011)

good idea, if you ask me. As far as the national picture is concerned it's a case of sending out a message that keeps people going in the provinces, whilst being a nuisance the government. If you think we're going to riot the government into submission you're delusional.


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## shaman75 (Apr 2, 2011)

http://twitter.com/search?q=trafalgar square#search?q=trafalgar


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## gunneradt (Apr 2, 2011)

ha ha

sad fuckers


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## OneStrike (Apr 2, 2011)

Sounds like it's been good fun so far, mixed in with celebrating Indians.  The police must be in two minds, kick them out again or risk it becoming a regular thing and with bigger numbers as the weather improves.


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2011)

Going from tweets, more peeps heading there


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## Weller (Apr 2, 2011)

Wasnt so long back you could go and sing there without getting kettled


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 2, 2011)

trafalgar square was designed for crowd control


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## audiotech (Apr 2, 2011)




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## treelover (Apr 3, 2011)

something very very unusual is happening in the Uk now, it seems many many young people are not going to accept their lot and will be heard,


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 3, 2011)

Go younguns!


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## ddraig (Apr 3, 2011)

Dillinger4 said:


> trafalgar square was designed for crowd control


 this^^ seen it happen
too easy


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## Balbi (Apr 3, 2011)

ddraig said:


> this^^ seen it happen
> too easy


 
The West End through Soho and Oxford Street are where to go though. Suffragettes knew it a century ago


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 3, 2011)

Balbi said:


> The West End through Soho and Oxford Street are where to go though. Suffragettes knew it a century ago


 
No. The place to go is the City of London.

Real protest would not be tolerated there.


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## skitr (Apr 3, 2011)

Apparently the plan is for it to happen every week now. Whether it does or not is another thing...


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 3, 2011)

They should occupy the omphalos at mudchute instead.


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## LLETSA (Apr 3, 2011)

Occupying squares and other public spaces might be effective in some countries with oppressive but fragile regimes, but here it's not really going to lead to anything.

Also lacking is the crucial element of foriegn corporate interests and the world's most powerful states being on the side of the occupiers, as we've seen almost everywhere that such tactics have been successful from 1989 onwards.


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## treelover (Apr 3, 2011)

God, Lettsa, I like your posts generally, but your cynicism is overwhelming, imo, there is a new political culture developing and an awful lot of angry people who want to get involved...


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## Brainaddict (Apr 3, 2011)




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## Dillinger4 (Apr 3, 2011)

Brainaddict said:


> View attachment 14542


 
Oh I quite like that.


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## ericjarvis (Apr 3, 2011)

treelover said:


> God, Lettsa, I like your posts generally, but your cynicism is overwhelming, imo, there is a new political culture developing and an awful lot of angry people who want to get involved...


 
I wouldn't dispute that. I just don't see any sign that it's something that can be turned into effective action that might actually lead to real change. It's good that one hell of a lot of people are pissed off at being repressed, robbed, and lied to. It's excellent that they are determined to be heard.

But then what?

Because it's the "then what" that actually makes a difference.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 3, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> I wouldn't dispute that. I just don't see any sign that it's something that can be turned into effective action that might actually lead to real change. It's good that one hell of a lot of people are pissed off at being repressed, robbed, and lied to. It's excellent that they are determined to be heard.
> 
> But then what?
> 
> Because it's the "then what" that actually makes a difference.


 
praxis


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## LLETSA (Apr 3, 2011)

treelover said:


> God, Lettsa, I like your posts generally, but your cynicism is overwhelming, imo, there is a new political culture developing and an awful lot of angry people who want to get involved...





As far as I can see, a lot of angry people are protesting against the cuts, but I see no sign of 'a new political culture' (new in what way?) 

In any case, the point I was making above is that because gathering in public squares and staying there until realtively fragile regimes step aside in favour of an alternative bunch of thieves and assorted scoundrels might work in some countries, it won't lead to anything much here. No cynicism is required to make this obvious point.


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## LLETSA (Apr 3, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> I wouldn't dispute that. I just don't see any sign that it's something that can be turned into effective action that might actually lead to real change. It's good that one hell of a lot of people are pissed off at being repressed, robbed, and lied to. It's excellent that they are determined to be heard.
> 
> But then what?
> 
> Because it's the "then what" that actually makes a difference.





Then everybody votes Labour and watches them make the same cuts in a different way. And then we can all moan about another Labour 'betrayal.'

Oh, and the far left can cobble together some alliance of small groups who loathe each other far more than they hate capitalism. And get about 1% of the national vote.


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## cemertyone (Apr 4, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> ha ha
> 
> sad fuckers


 bit like yourself then i guess....


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## LLETSA (Apr 5, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> As far as I can see, a lot of angry people are protesting against the cuts, but I see no sign of 'a new political culture' (new in what way?)





So neither treelover nor anybody else can describe what exactly is new about the political culture that is supposedly developing currently?


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## sim667 (Apr 5, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> So neither treelover nor anybody else can describe what exactly is new about the political culture that is supposedly developing currently?


 
If there is one I'd personally say its fuelled but the internet explosion of what could be described as infoanarchism, or the sharing of ideas and thoughs without obvious accountability.


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## LLETSA (Apr 5, 2011)

sim667 said:


> If there is one I'd personally say its fuelled but the internet explosion of what could be described as infoanarchism, or the sharing of ideas and thoughs without obvious accountability.





Didn't people used to do this without spending all day tapping those thoughts onto a screen?


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## sim667 (Apr 5, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> Didn't people used to do this without spending all day tapping those thoughts onto a screen?



Im not sure whether to take that as a genuine question or a sarcastic put down, so ill answer it as a genuine question.

Well its only in recent years that it pretty much happens in real time, and its only been since the invention of a protocol that carries data over wiring that information like that has been available to 'browse' and read rather than having to actually having to find someone who knew or become involved in a group with a particular agenda to find out information that you wanted to know.

So yes they may have shared ideas in the past, but its never been as available as it is today. Also dont underestimate the influence of peers through social networking.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 5, 2011)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> So neither treelover nor anybody else can describe what exactly is new about the political culture that is supposedly developing currently?






			
				LLETSA said:
			
		

> Didn't people used to do this without spending all day tapping those thoughts onto a screen?


no point taking you off ignore, you're still trotting out the same old wank


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## LLETSA (Apr 5, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Im not sure whether to take that as a genuine question or a sarcastic put down, so ill answer it as a genuine question.
> 
> Well its only in recent years that it pretty much happens in real time, and its only been since the invention of a protocol that carries data over wiring that information like that has been available to 'browse' and read rather than having to actually having to find someone who knew or become involved in a group with a particular agenda to find out information that you wanted to know.
> 
> So yes they may have shared ideas in the past, but its never been as available as it is today. Also dont underestimate the influence of peers through social networking.





In what way could it be construed as a put down?

As I say, what you're claiming might be true-but it results in nothing bigger than what happened throughout the 19th and 20th centuries in terms of protest and other forms of political action. The only difference is that there's no longer any clear idea of what the outcome should be, and organisation is far weaker and usually only temporary. And revolution has become something where stage armies rally for an alternative bunch of thugs and thieves from within the system they're ostensibly trying to overturn. 

Welcome to the 21st century, where everything goes down the shitter.


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## LLETSA (Apr 5, 2011)

Pedant's model said:


> no point taking you off ignore, you're still trotting out the same old wank


 

I thought you had me on ignore, Phil? Make your mind up.

Same old? As if you don't trot out the same old riot fetish, ACAB wank anyway. That's when you actually do something other than derail a thread with your mania for pedantry. A bit like you're set on doing now.


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## sim667 (Apr 5, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> In what way could it be construed as a put down?
> 
> As I say, what you're claiming might be true-but it results in nothing bigger than what happened throughout the 19th and 20th centuries in terms of protest and other forms of political action. The only difference is that there's no longer any clear idea of what the outcome should be, and organisation is far weaker and usually only temporary. And revolution has become something where stage armies rally for an alternative bunch of thugs and thieves from within the system they're ostensibly trying to overturn.
> 
> ...


 
Maybe I just read it in the wrong tone, Im generally aware that most discussions on urban at some point include a massive amount of ironicism or sarcasm. Apologies

Im not suggesting that its pathing a way for revolution in the UK, however I think the next couple of generations  the massive changes in the way that we share information and views will of course affect the political landscape and prompt our government to respond either with repression of information or a liberalisation and a much more transparent view of the inner workings of governments, if protests that are happening now can achieve the latter in a shorter time period, I dont think that can be anything but good, however 'revolution' which some pepople call for is certainly pretty unattainable in the UK currently, as it needs numbers, which needs general consensus, which they dont have. What I do think it could promote certainly is a change of ethos to running services based more on the ideologies they're founded rather than what the tories are doing currently which is running everything on a capitalist agenda.

Also a good point to make is that what happened in the 19th and 20th centuries that you're talking about where often quite heavily driven by some kind of union relating to the industries that we had around those times, lets not forget that a lot of those industries are now minimal or non existant, the unifiying purpose has somewhat diminished, so changes in the technological landscapes almost fill the void of the common interest of whats worth fighting for that were left open by the trashing (mainly) of our heavy industry.

I certainly dont think we can underestimate the power of how the ability to share information and views can facilitate 'revolutions' and the toppling of governments as shown by the recent goings on around egypt, bahrain, libya and the like.

This in interesting, if you find what im saying interesting iyswim.


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## LLETSA (Apr 5, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Maybe I just read it in the wrong tone, Im generally aware that most discussions on urban at some point include a massive amount of ironicism or sarcasm. Apologies
> 
> Im not suggesting that its pathing a way for revolution in the UK, however I think the next couple of generations  the massive changes in the way that we share information and views will of course affect the political landscape and prompt our government to respond either with repression of information or a liberalisation and a much more transparent view of the inner workings of governments, if protests that are happening now can achieve the latter in a shorter time period, I dont think that can be anything but good, however 'revolution' which some pepople call for is certainly pretty unattainable in the UK currently, as it needs numbers, which needs general consensus, which they dont have. What I do think it could promote certainly is a change of ethos to running services based more on the ideologies they're founded rather than what the tories are doing currently which is running everything on a capitalist agenda.
> 
> ...





I still don't really see what's supposed to be new about any of this. After all, there have been calls for greater transparency of government for a very long time, often with some success. It doesn't necessarily lead to greater economic equality, though, and is often perfectly compatible with the opposite.


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## sim667 (Apr 5, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> I still don't really see what's supposed to be new about any of this. After all, there have been calls for greater transparency of government for a very long time, often with some success. It doesn't necessarily lead to greater economic equality, though, and is often perfectly compatible with the opposite.


 
Its not new, what is new is the amount of people looking at the information available, and the fact that its far more easy to communicate with people who share an interest. wikileaks is a prime example, leaks of information, previously unprecendented at that level, straight onto the web for anyone to see, rather than filtered, edited and analysed by journalists before it reaches the public.

I really dont think you're actually reading my posts, or just skim reading, I made that very clear.


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## LLETSA (Apr 5, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Its not new, what is new is the amount of people looking at the information available, and the fact that its far more easy to communicate with people who share an interest. wikileaks is a prime example, leaks of information, previously unprecendented at that level, straight onto the web for anyone to see, rather than filtered, edited and analysed by journalists before it reaches the public.
> 
> I really dont think you're actually reading my posts, or just skim reading, I made that very clear.





I know that's what you're saying. But what I'm objecting to is an idea that didn't originate with you but came further up in the thread (although you seemed to come in in defence of it)-that a new political culture is currently developing.

Aside from that, as far as I can see the vastly increased opportunities for people to share unfiltered information seems to contribute further to the fragmenting of opinion, the dissolution of ideologies and the intensification of personal angst. It may also lead to the occupying of public spaces and the smashing of some shop windows, and, in the Third World, the fall of fragile regimes, but, as we will see, not necessarily to anything other than a shuffling of chairs among the ruling classes in the latter case and (at most) the re-election of the other of the two interchangeable governing parties in the former.


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## sim667 (Apr 5, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> I know that's what you're saying. But what I'm objecting to is an idea that didn't originate with you but came further up in the thread (although you seemed to come in in defence of it)-that a new political culture is currently developing.
> 
> Aside from that, as far as I can see the vastly increased opportunities for people to share unfiltered information seems to contribute further to the fragmenting of opinion, the dissolution of ideologies and the intensification of personal angst. It may also lead to the occupying of public spaces and the smashing of some shop windows, and, in the Third World, the fall of fragile regimes, but, as we will see, not necessarily to anything other than a shuffling of chairs among the ruling classes in the latter case and (at most) the re-election of the other of the two interchangeable governing parties in the former.



I was more responding to how it was developing rather than defending it, its something ive been reading up about lately.

Opposite to you I dont think that access to unfiltered information does lead to fragmentation of ideas, but I do think it allows people to form their own opinion rather than regurgitate the contents the a daily heil reporter. Obviously some people will continue to use the internet for pretty much nothing but pictures of cats, but i really do think more and more people will use the internet to form opinion and related groups about a variety of political points (and non political). Whether this unifies or splits society still remains to be seen, but the change in the political landscape caused by free information sharing certainly cannot be ignored. Research has shown (in regards to advertising) that demographics are pretty much useless on the internet, becuase in text we dont gather by our genders/ages/ehtnicities etc....... we gather by our interests.

Planning on writing a blog on this later, so I am taking your points into account..... thanks.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

*I made an account just to reply to the arrogant fuckers in this thread.*

Ha, the ignorance of some people shouldn't surprise me, but it does nonetheless. I am a part of the 'occupy Trafalgar' camp, and we've been going for four weeks, completing our 24 hours. The next day, on the Sunday, we set up workshops and have a huge 'NO CUTS' sign taped to the floor, and we invite the members of the public to sign onto it how the cuts have affected them. Every week it is filled up with people's; young and old, child and elderly, middle class and working class etc, stories. We attract a lot of public attention, we speak to them, even invite them into the camp, and we have been interviewed by several media sources. We have survived the camp despite harassment from the police last weekend, and drunks in the camp. Yes, a change may not happen overnight. We're not pricks, we don't think the Government is going to just keel over and change their policies, but that's not the point. The point is; we're making a point. We're coming together, we're meeting people, we're inspiring people. Every week we get a new member, or open someone's mind. We're not just a bunch of people sitting in a square, and if we can even inspire one member of the public to fight for their rights and the rights of their peers, then we've succeeded. So, please, come down on Sunday and actually see the camp instead of talking smack about us from your computer. Unless you actually see for your own eyes what we're about; shut. the. fuck. up.


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## Belushi (Apr 25, 2011)

> We're not just a bunch of people sitting in a square,



You are you know.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

Belushi,

You're really, really funny. Did you know that?

Well done for ignoring the rest of the post *thumbs up*


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

*Forgot..*

to upload these.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

Dhimmi said:


> Dunno but good luck to all who try.


 
Thank you, bless you.


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## Belushi (Apr 25, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> Belushi,
> 
> You're really, really funny. Did you know that?
> 
> Well done for ignoring the rest of the post *thumbs up*


 
If you didnt come across as so up yourself in your initial post I would have treated it more seriously.

Good social skills are *really* important if you're trying to convince people of your case.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

Obnoxiousness said:


> The thing is... do the authorities give a shit?  How will this ruin Cameron's day?  It won't.  He might hear about each protest, but it's hardly going to make him abandon the cuts.
> 
> Any protest is meaningless if the government are not going to be moved.


 
No, it is not 'meaningless'. Just because it doesn't fit into your small minded and boxed in view of what a protest's results should be. As I previously stated, we've reached out to the public, we've attracted attention, we've been interviewed by different media sources, we've all met new people and been educated, we're educating others and if we can inspire even one person, we've made a difference.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

Belushi said:


> If you didnt come across as so up yourself in your initial post I would have treated it more seriously.
> 
> Good social skills are *really* important if you're trying to convince people of your case.



Oh, don't worry. I only appeared so 'up' myself in response to the people that were so 'up' themselves they were barely visible.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> good idea, if you ask me. As far as the national picture is concerned it's a case of sending out a message that keeps people going in the provinces, whilst being a nuisance the government. If you think we're going to riot the government into submission you're delusional.


 
Thank you! You should come down.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> ha ha
> 
> sad fuckers


 
Yep. Because fighting for your rights and reaching out to each other makes you a 'sad fucker'. I'd LOVE to see what you do with your life.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Go younguns!


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

Dillinger4 said:


> No. The place to go is the City of London.
> 
> Real protest would not be tolerated there.


 
Ha! That would be funny. If we ever decide to occupy anywhere else, that could be our next location.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

skitr said:


> Apparently the plan is for it to happen every week now. Whether it does or not is another thing...


 
We've just successfully completed our fourth week, despite police harassment and threats, and are planning a 48 hour occupation next week


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## Belushi (Apr 25, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> Oh, don't worry. I only appeared so 'up' myself in response to the people that were so 'up' themselves they were barely visible.


 
That kind of misses the point if you're trying to convince the public of your case.

Saying 'he started it!' never convinces.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> Occupying squares and other public spaces might be effective in some countries with oppressive but fragile regimes, but here it's not really going to lead to anything.
> 
> Also lacking is the crucial element of foriegn corporate interests and the world's most powerful states being on the side of the occupiers, as we've seen almost everywhere that such tactics have been successful from 1989 onwards.


 
Again, you're not seeing the point here. It's not about immediately changing legislation or even booting the Government out; although that would be a very welcome change. It's about coming together, showing the Government that we're not gonna take it lying down, educating and bringing in the public and spreading the message. Again, come down and see it. Then you can actually have some authority on passing opinion about it.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 25, 2011)

Belushi said:


> That kind of misses the point if you're trying to convince the public of your case.
> 
> Saying 'he started it!' never convinces.


 
I don't need to 'convince the public' of our case. We've actually had support from the majority of the public that have come down.


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## Belushi (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> I don't need to 'convince the public' of our case. We've actually had support from the majority of the public that have come down.


 
OK. Can you see whats wrong with that statement?


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> I wouldn't dispute that. I just don't see any sign that it's something that can be turned into effective action that might actually lead to real change. It's good that one hell of a lot of people are pissed off at being repressed, robbed, and lied to. It's excellent that they are determined to be heard.
> 
> But then what?
> 
> Because it's the "then what" that actually makes a difference.



Come down, then speak.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> OK. Can you see whats wrong with that statement?


 
Nah. 

Are you actually going to say anything other than pedantic bullshit about the original post?


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## Belushi (Apr 26, 2011)

You're really not very good at this are you?  I hope the rest of the camp have better social skills when dealing with potential supporters, because you're a fucking liability.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> You're really not very good at this are you?  I hope the rest of the camp have better social skills when dealing with potential supporters, because you're a fucking liability.


 
LOL, cool story bro


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 26, 2011)

If I lived in London I would probably come down quite a bit. I was there on the 26th, got pretty messy pretty quickly as we all know. I can doubt and question the effectiveness like anyone else, there is unlikely to be one solution to the endless stream of shit being poured on us. But it is notable that those who scoff have themselves clearly not advanced a successful solution themselves. I am personally open to all suggestions. But I would ask why trafalgar square and not Parliament Square?


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> If I lived in London I would probably come down quite a bit. I was there on the 26th, got pretty messy pretty quickly as we all know. I can doubt and question the effectiveness like anyone else, there is unlikely to be one solution to the endless stream of shit being poured on us. But it is notable that those who scoff have themselves clearly not advanced a successful solution themselves. I am personally open to all suggestions. But I would ask why trafalgar square and not Parliament Square?


 
I was on the 26th March too  However, where I was, there wasn't an ounce of trouble. Though, I did see the paint bombs and smashed buildings that the Black Bloc left behind. Our weekly occupation was and is a direct response to police brutality on the 26th, while protesters peacefully occupied Trafalgar sq. A friend of mine, a well spoken, non violent and peaceful protester, described it as being 'very scary' adding that 'the police yelled at everyone to get back, even though people were against a wall and couldn't. People were literally screaming and crying as they tried to explain that they couldn't get back. Still, the police charged at them.'. There are many a video of these incidents if you'd like to see. 

In terms of people who are scoffing; you're right. It's funny actually, because when the cuts hit them, or hit their family members, will they still scoff? This isn't an individual's problem, this is societies problem. If we're so in debt, why is the Government dropping billion £ bombs everyday? Or bailing out banks? Or still handing out bonus'? And spending money on pointless schemes or law enforcement activities that kill dogs or hold them for 11 months in secret kennels when they haven't done anything wrong? Why aren't people questioning where money comes from? People are so asleep, it's ridiculous. I can only hope they're doing something. But, you know, they haven't actually seen what we do so it doesn't matter. As I said, we don't just sit in the square. We do stuff, we talk to people, we spread the word. If you can't respect that, then prsh. Coolio.

Honestly, though. If you can make it down at any point, you're more than welcome. We're a friendly bunch and there's usually something fun to do or someone interesting to talk to. No matter if you don't bring sleeping equipment, if you want to stay there's always a tent to do so in. On our first week, we drew a Twister board on the ground in chalk and played Twister  the following week we made capitalist snakes and ladders. It's great  and we attract a lot of attention, so it's all good.


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## editor (Apr 26, 2011)

I'll try and come down on the day and big it up on my blog...


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

editor said:


> I'll try and come down on the day and big it up on my blog...


 
Much appreciated  next week is a 48 hour occupation so there's plenty of time for you to come down in. If you make it, my name's Carmen so make sure you say hi


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## spliff (Apr 26, 2011)

Obnoxiousness said:


> Any protest is meaningless if the government are not going to be moved.



Have you ever known any protest that 'moved' a government or made a government change it's decision path in a 'Western' democracy?

In the short term.


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## ericjarvis (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> Come down, then speak.


 
I shall do, health permitting.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> I shall do, health permitting.


 
I look forward to seeing you, if you do come down  name's Carmen.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> I don't need to 'convince the public' of our case. We've actually had support from the majority of the public that have come down.


 
yes you do. the majority of those that have come down is not the majority in the country or even london. when you've got a hundred thousand camped in the square, maybe then you can be so blase in your attitude.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

discokermit said:


> yes you do. the majority of those that have come down is not the majority in the country or even london. when you've got a hundred thousand camped in the square, maybe then you can be so blase in your attitude.


 
And where did I specify the public have to be native Londoners? And what exactly is your point? And are *you* doing anything to protest a cause you believe in?


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> And where did I specify the public have to be native Londoners? And what exactly is your point? And are *you* doing anything to protest a cause you believe in?


 
don't lecture me you cunt. the point is your occupation is fucking woeful, get a hundred thousand there, then you can come on here giving it the big i am.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

discokermit said:


> don't lecture me you cunt. the point is your occupation is fucking woeful, get a hundred thousand there, then you can come on here giving it the big i am.


 
 enjoy it when someone you love loses their job, or an elderly family member gets denied their pension. Enjoy watching the steep decline of society. Enjoy it all love . You sitting there and shitting on our rebellion is the fucking woefullness. Funny


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## Belushi (Apr 26, 2011)

Jesus Traf, this illustrates exactly what I'm trying to get through to you.  You come on here and immediately you're getting the backs up of people who sympathise with your cause who have decades of activism behind them


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> enjoy it when someone you love loses their job, or an elderly family member gets denied their pension. Enjoy watching the steep decline of society. Enjoy it all love . You sitting there and shitting on our rebellion is the fucking woefullness. Funny


 
ignorant prick. try digging your head from out of your arsehole.


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## editor (Apr 26, 2011)

I think an overall bit of neck-winding-in could be beneficial to all parties here.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> Jesus Traf, this illustrates exactly what I'm trying to get through to you.  You come on here and immediately you're getting the backs up of people who sympathise with your cause who have decades of activism behind them


 
decades, man and boy, to be told by some twat who'se spent a few nights camping out that you're shitting on the revolution.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> Jesus Traf, this illustrates exactly what I'm trying to get through to you.  You come on here and immediately you're getting the backs up of people who sympathise with your cause who have decades of activism behind them


 
When it's ignorant people whose backs I'm getting up, I couldn't really care less tbh.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

editor said:


> I think an overall bit of neck-winding-in could be beneficial to all parties here.


 
LOL.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> When it's ignorant people whose backs I'm getting up, I couldn't really care less tbh.


 
you're coming across as the most ignorant twat on the thread.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

discokermit said:


> decades, man and boy, to be told by some twat who'se spent a few nights camping out that you're shitting on the revolution.


 
You still haven't answered my question. Instead, you sit there and metaphorically scream obscenities at me. Funny


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## Belushi (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> When it's ignorant people whose backs I'm getting up, I couldn't really care less tbh.


 
Its not though - its very experienced activists who you should be forging links with.

And if you've managed this with twenty posts with people broadly in sympathy with your action I dread to think what you're like with the public.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

discokermit said:


> you're coming across as the most ignorant twat on the thread.


 
Yeah, cool bro


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## Belushi (Apr 26, 2011)

Is there someone else at that camp willing to come on here and talk? because you're a fucking disaster at this tbh traf.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> Its not though - its very experienced activists who you should be forging links with.
> 
> And if you've managed this with twenty posts with people broadly in sympathy with your action I dread to think what you're like with the public.


 
I wouldn't want to form links with an 'experienced activist' who condemns, rather than supports, a perfectly legitimate protest. 

Furthermore, dread what I'm like with the public all you like. In fact, come down and watch me with the public. Then you can record it, post it on here and talk about how unsocialised I am with the public.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> Is there someone else at that camp willing to come here and talk? because you're a fucking disaster at this tbh traf.


 
*yawn*


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## Belushi (Apr 26, 2011)

No thanks, if you're the best representative they can muster I've got zero hopes for this action achieving anything tbh.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

@traf, are you even allowed out late at night? do your parents know what you're up to?


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## free spirit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> enjoy it when someone you love loses their job, or an elderly family member gets denied their pension. Enjoy watching the steep decline of society. Enjoy it all love . You sitting there and shitting on our rebellion is the fucking woefullness. Funny


tbh, from where I'm sitting, your "rebellion" looks like it was fucking woefull before discokermit came along to point this out to you. Nice effort and all that, but in the do it properly or not at all stakes, this falls firmly in the latter category IMO. 

I suppose it could still build into something worthwhile, but not with the powers of persuasion that have been displayed so far tonight.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 26, 2011)

Anyone, including traf, who would claim that this particular protest is a likely way of bringing about some form of revolution would obviously be a complete fool. I dont even think it is the right place to do it. Parliament Square is far more agitational a target, and thereby more newsworthy. It is also the model from other countries (CIA backed or otherwise). But in any case this thread has gone needlessly downhill. Traf, you perhaps need to appreciate more obviously that people on this site do generally know what they are on about and dont need to be lectured about activism and anti establishment politics, that's what makes it so rare and special. I also think it would be helpful if others didnt trot out words like 'cunt' at the drop of a hat. That tends to invite more insults or (in this case) a form of aloof scoffing.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> No thanks, if you're the best representative they can muster I've got zero hopes for this action achieving anything tbh.


 
Cool


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

free spirit said:


> tbh, from where I'm sitting, your "rebellion" looks like it was fucking woefull before discokermit came along to point this out to you. Nice effort and all that, but in the do it properly or not at all stakes, this falls firmly in the latter category IMO.
> 
> I suppose it could still build into something worthwhile, but not with the powers of persuasion that have been displayed so far tonight.



Aaand another person who hasn't actually seen it for themselves. LOL!


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

discokermit said:


> @traf, are you even allowed out late at night? do your parents know what you're up to?


 
Your tactics aren't going to work, you're not upsetting or offending me. You are, however, digressing to insults and attempted humiliation. So I'll just ignore you from now. Unless you have something worthwhile to say, it won't be replied to.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

Our Five Point Plan for revolution

1: Turn Trafalgar Square intoTahrir Square!
We must emulate the Egyptianmasses’ brilliant revolutionarystrategy of standing around in thesame place for three weeks. If they can do it there, we can etcetc!

2: Turn Tahrir Square intoAlbert Square!
Let’s give the Egyptian workingclass a break and let them watch
Eastenders
.
3: Turn Albert Square intoTimes Square!
The Cockney masses havelived in drab squalor for too long.What do we want? More neonsigns! Where do we want them?Walford!

4: Turn Times Square intoTiananmen Square!
Shoot the Americans down likedogs. Or as they say in NewYork, “dawgs.”

5: Turn Tiananmen Square intoTrafalgar Square!
With a huge column in themiddle, the Communist Partycould spot reactionary dissidentsa mile off, making it easier tokettle them.






courtesy of 'the weekly smirker'.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> Your tactics aren't going to work, you're not upsetting or offending me. You are, however, digressing to insults and attempted humiliation. So I'll just ignore you from now. Unless you have something worthwhile to say, it won't be replied to.


 
i'm using insults as a shorthand way of highlighting your juvenile 'angry hectoring teenager' method of trying to build an occupation.


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## free spirit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> Aaand another person who hasn't actually seen it for themselves. LOL!


you've posted up pictures of it on this very thread.

FWIW, I've been in traf square on a number of none woefull protests, so actually do know what they look like, both in reality and on camera, and this really isn't one of them.

kudos for doing something, but really this isn't an occupation or a rebellion, it's more of like a saturday afternoon information stall the like of which a lot of people on here will have helped with over the year, only you've opted to supplement yours with tents and a slumber party in the misguided believe this would somehow add to the credibility of your message. You've not occupied traf square, you're not currently engaged in anything approaching rebellion, and if you stopped making out that you were then maybe people might stop taking the piss and start treating you slightly more seriously. Just a thought like.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

free spirit said:


> you've posted up pictures of it on this very thread.
> 
> FWIW, I've been in traf square on a number of none woefull protests, so actually do know what they look like, both in reality and on camera, and this really isn't one of them.
> 
> kudos for doing something, but really this isn't an occupation or a rebellion, it's more of like a saturday afternoon information stall the like of which a lot of people on here will have helped with over the year, only you've opted to supplement yours with tents and a slumber party in the misguided believe this would somehow add to the credibility of your message. You've not occupied traf square, you're not currently engaged in anything approaching rebellion, and if you stopped making out that you were then maybe people might stop taking the piss and start treating you slightly more seriously. Just a thought like.


 
When I say see it for yourself, I'm not talking about the picture. I'm talking about actually going down there, speaking with us etc. You can make assumptions about us all you like, freedom of speech and all that crap. There are many different types of people, of all ages and backgrounds, in the camp, and going down Trafalgar sq on a Saturday night to occupy is not all they do. Again, you haven't attended, or at least, it appears you haven't.

But, you know, judge us all you like. It's your prerogative.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

free spirit said:


> FWIW, I've been in traf square on a number of none woefull protests,


like this sort of thing?


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## Belushi (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> But, you know, judge us all you like. It's your prerogative.


 
All we've got to judge you on is your posts - you really should stop and think about why they're going down so badly.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> All we've got to judge you on is your posts - you really should stop and think about why they're going down so badly.


 
You're still writing?


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## Belushi (Apr 26, 2011)

You're still alienating potential supporters?


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## spliff (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> *yawn*


Oh! dear, you had me for a moment. Back to Facebook with you.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> You're still writing?


 
he's trying to help you out, you're just too thick to see it.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> You're still alienating potential supporters?


 
Indeed. Having great fun with it too.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

spliff said:


> Oh! dear, you had me for a moment. Back to Facebook with you.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

discokermit said:


> he's trying to help you out, you're just too thick to see it.


 
Prsh. Yeah, right.


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## spliff (Apr 26, 2011)

Why don't you organize a FLASH MOB and go and alienate the opposition.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

spliff said:


> Why don't you organize a FLASH MOB and go and alienate the opposition.


 
We'll see what happens. Many of us have been involved in other protests, and I definitely know that some people in the camp are currently involved in other protests and forms of protest.


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## spliff (Apr 26, 2011)

When your in a hole, stop digging.


and  bye, 


go away quickly


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

spliff said:


> When your in a hole, stop digging.
> 
> 
> and  bye,
> ...



Wow. We _almost_ managed civil here.


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## free spirit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> When I say see it for yourself, I'm not talking about the picture. I'm talking about actually going down there, speaking with us etc. You can make assumptions about us all you like, freedom of speech and all that crap. There are many different types of people, of all ages and backgrounds, in the camp, and going down Trafalgar sq on a Saturday night to occupy is not all they do. Again, you haven't attended, or at least, it appears you haven't.
> 
> But, you know, judge us all you like. It's your prerogative.


to occupy somewhere would mean to take control of that place, and to exclude the police and other agents of the state from that place as you were asserting your control over it.

so, do you still maintain that you have been occupying trafalgar square every saturday night? 

If so, then fair play, but having actually done that elsewhere in the past for considerably longer than 24 hours, you'll have to forgive me for having my doubts about this given the photo's you've posted up.


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> Wow. We _almost_ managed civil here.


 
http://www.youre.co.uk/


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

free spirit said:


> to occupy somewhere would mean to take control of that place, and to exclude the police and other agents of the state from that place as you were asserting your control over it.
> 
> so, do you still maintain that you have been occupying trafalgar square every saturday night?
> 
> If so, then fair play, but having actually done that elsewhere in the past for considerably longer than 24 hours, you'll have to forgive me for having my doubts about this given the photo's you've posted up.


 
Definitions of occupy on the Web:

: To fill either time or space; : To live or reside in; : To fill or hold a position; : To conquer somewhere; : To hold the attention of; To cohabit, to have sexual intercourse with. (Reference: Sidney J. Baker, The Australian Language, second edition, 1966. ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occupy

occupied - held or filled or in use; "she keeps her time well occupied"; "the wc is occupied"
occupied - seized and controlled as by military invasion; "the occupied countries of Europe"
occupied - resided in; having tenants; "not all the occupied (or tenanted) apartments were well kept up"
occupied - engaged: having ones attention or mind or energy engaged; "she keeps herself fully occupied with volunteer activities"; "deeply engaged in conversation"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Yep.

Just because our occupation isn't the same as your occupation, it doesn't mean it's invalid.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

i occupied sainsburies for half an hour on my own earlier. just stand back and watch mercantile capitalism come tumbling down now, like the walls of jericho.


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## free spirit (Apr 26, 2011)

discokermit said:


> like this sort of thing?


slightly before my time, but yes that was the sort of none woefull protest I had in mind.

I was thinking more along the lines of this one




although tbf, it probably wasn't RTS's finest hour in terms of the guerilla gardening message, which confused most activists who were there, never mind trying to explain it to anyone else.


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## Belushi (Apr 26, 2011)

discokermit said:


> i occupied sainsburies for half an hour on my own earlier. just stand back and watch mercantile capitalism come tumbling down now, like the walls of jericho.


 
I'm occupying Streatham as we speak.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

Belushi said:


> I'm occupying Streatham as we speak.


 
i'm going to occupy my bed in a bit. dfs must be shitting themselves.


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## spliff (Apr 26, 2011)

discokermit said:


> i occupied sainsburies for half an hour on my own earlier. just stand back and watch mercantile capitalism come tumbling down now, like the walls of jericho.


 
It wasn't like that for me, I occupied Sainsbury's for 45mins because I had to sit and check my till receipts. Overcharged for 600g Hellmans Mayo. Customer service saw a shorter occupation whilst they dealt with my problem. Disgruntled looks were exchanged. That'll learn 'em.


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## free spirit (Apr 26, 2011)

TrafOccupier said:


> Definitions of occupy on the Web:
> 
> : To fill either time or space; : To live or reside in; : To fill or hold a position; : To conquer somewhere; : To hold the attention of; To cohabit, to have sexual intercourse with. (Reference: Sidney J. Baker, The Australian Language, second edition, 1966. ...
> en.wiktionary.org/wiki/occupy
> ...


so you've occupied trafalgar square as tenants, or occupied your time well in the trafalgar square, or kept your attention fully occupied in trafalgar square.

were any of these the meanings assigned to the phrase when used in conjunction with the Tahrir Square occupation that your publicist attempts to make parallels with?

or is it actually the 'seized and controlled' version of the definitions you post that is being referred to?


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## spliff (Apr 26, 2011)

is that ... .. 





> as by military invasion


?


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## free spirit (Apr 26, 2011)

spliff said:


> is that ... .. ?


*as by*...


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## TrafOccupier (Apr 26, 2011)

*Laughing my arse off here.*

Well, it's 2.35am, and I have photography to edit. Last post here, and you're no doubt thinking "good riddance". That's cool, I didn't expect to come on a forum, of all places, with an opposite and not sugar coated post and get a nice response. I was prepared for all of this, and now I've said my bit, I can go. 

All I'm saying is it's fucking pathetic to sit there and shit on someone's protest without _actually_ being there and seeing it for yourself. But, it's no more than I'd expect from an ignorant person.

Nonetheless, everyone is still welcome and it'd be great to see any of you there. 

Remember; drops in the ocean make the sea. Small baby steps are still steps nonetheless. I'm proud to be part of something, and to be reaching out to the public, and coming together. I don't need anyone's validation for it, and neither do we. We're powerful in our own way.

Take care, all of you.


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## discokermit (Apr 26, 2011)

what's pathetic and ignorant is to come on a messageboard and in your first post slag people off and tell people to shut the fuck up. reaching out to the public means _reaching out to the public_, not hectoring and being a nob. if this thing is to be anything of use it needs building massively. you personally seem incapable of doing that. i hope your comrades are better equipped for social interaction.


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## spliff (Apr 26, 2011)

You came to the Protest/Direct Action section of the boards and started by slagging off those who may have been sympathetic to the actions you're taking.



TrafOccupier said:


> I made an account just to reply to the arrogant fuckers in this thread.
> Ha, the ignorance of some people shouldn't surprise me, but it does nonetheless


100 posts later you say 





> All I'm saying is it's fucking pathetic to *sit there and shit on someone's protest* without actually being there and seeing it for yourself. But, it's no more than I'd expect from an ignorant person.


I would say the same, it's fucking pathetic to shit on someone's website and slag off those who may have originally been drawn to your cause, but you with your strident and really rather nasty personality have driven them all away. Have you thought of Mumsnet?


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## Ground Elder (Apr 26, 2011)

> Remember; drops in the ocean make the sea.


and ripples go up and down not outwards.


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