# Southbank skateboard park - proposed re-location



## shygirl (Jun 11, 2013)

Some of you may be aware that the Southbank Centre is proposing to move the skaters from the undercroft, where they have gathered for over 30 years, to a spot under Hungerford bridge.  It is still at planning stage and submissions can be made to Lambeth (see link below).

http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ail&utm_term=0_89a8f12bef-0ea8108a50-59540617

My son has really good memories of times spent at the undercroft.  His friend, Louis Tingle, who passed away in 2004, virtually lived in the place at one point, such was his love for skateboarding and the friends he made there.  A couple of days after the funeral, family and friends gathered there to lay flowers and see the tributes to Louis graffed on the walls.  For me, its one of very few spaces in London, or anywhere for that matter, where young people can come together, do their thing AND be a source of admiration and interest to the wider community and visitors to the area.   Views of a skateboarder:

*Finn Andrès, 24, recent graduate*
'This place is very well known, nationally and internationally – so when I started skateboarding at 14, you just knew this was the place to go. Almost all of the close friends I have now, I met here. I have friends from very wealthy backgrounds and friends from deprived backgrounds. It’s a really good example of an unprogrammed, uncontrolled space which is left to young people to use for free. None of us are against a redevelopment of the Southbank Centre that improves access to free events. What I’m against is the conversion into retail units. It's ironic that in seeking to redevelop the centre to improve access to culture, the centre is destroying perhaps the most democratic and vibrant example of culture anywhere on the South Bank'.  The proposed space under Hungerford Bridge won’t work,' continues *Finn Andrès.* 'The shape of it is wrong – it’s too square – and it’s much smaller. We’re all just going to be hitting into each other. Also, it doesn’t have the history. The whole importance of the Southbank is that it was organic: skateboarders appropriated a disused space and over the past 40 years an entire community has flourished here. I think places like this are incredibly valuable to cities, especially when the general dynamic is moving more towards the commercialisation of everything'.

If anyone feels strongly about this proposed move, please send your comments to Lambeth.


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## _pH_ (Jun 12, 2013)

I was up there yesterday, the skaters have a good campaign going, and they had comment forms to fill in for them to send to Lambeth which I did. It's a special place for me, I used to skate there 25 years ago, too old to do so now, but it's great to see it still being used in the same way and will be a terrible shame if it goes.

edit: just submitted a comment online too. Belt and braces.


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## ringo (Jun 12, 2013)

Spent a lot of time skating there in the 80's and 90's. I've been supporting this, but sadly I'm not convinced we'll win.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

it's always nice to see the skaters there


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## Crispy (Jun 12, 2013)

I got a response in on this a few weeks ago. It's a proper landmark. Cultural history and all that. Public institution land, too so they really ought to have a bit more consideration for this sort of thing. It's a truly terrible bit of urban design in the first place, but its new use is an excellent re-appropriation and adds life to the area. It should be built around, not on.


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## editor (Jun 12, 2013)

Damn straight. The kids made it theirs and it's now as much a part of the area as whatever's on in the Festival Hall.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 12, 2013)

Crispy said:


> I got a response in on this a few weeks ago. It's a proper landmark. Cultural history and all that. Public institution land, too so they really ought to have a bit more consideration for this sort of thing. It's a truly terrible bit of urban design in the first place, but its new use is an excellent re-appropriation and adds life to the area. It should be built around, not on.


 
This.

I am not, and have never been a skater. In fact I might go as far to say I find the whole skater thing a bit annoying.
But that's my problem.
The skaters have always been a part of the southbank as long I have known it. There seems to be a genuine culture and community around it, and I have never felt any malice or intimidation from the skaters, that have always been quite respectful of the passers by and the area in general (from what I have seen).


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

There is a petition here, fwiw (I think responses to the Council are far more imporant and effective at this stage):

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...op-the-relocation-of-the-southbank-skate-park

(50,000 signatures so far).

Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/sosresistance


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## purves grundy (Jun 12, 2013)

It's an incredible place. The buzz I got from the times I went there in the 80s and 90s, seeing the pics in the skate mags of all the famous Yanks that dropped in (and still do)... hard to put into words. Birthplace of UK street skateboarding and still creating and nurturing great skaters today. To destroy it would be, as overused as the phrase is today, cultural vandelism.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jun 12, 2013)

If anything I'd like to see it expanded , it's already been boxed in a bit. A bit of ingenuity could improve it but sadly the £££ income from potential restaurants is too tempting for the Southbank. There's something faintly comical about all the 'Activist' stuff going on in inside with Yoko Ono's Meltdown.

There's been 3000+ comments on the planning proposal probably mostly objections from the skate community


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## Crispy (Jun 12, 2013)

Having read up a bit, I don't see any chance for it, tbh 
The commercial argument is so strong. If the SBC was going to get a larger amount of public funding to run their proposed new facilities, then I suspect some compromise could be reached. But they have to be entirely self-funding. And that means maximising revenue. And that means riverside bars and restaurants. It's inexorable.

At least the skaters are getting a replacement. 20 years ago, they'd have just been told to fuck off. :-/


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## _pH_ (Jun 12, 2013)

purves grundy said:


> It's an incredible place. The buzz I got from the times I went there in the 80s and 90s, seeing the pics in the skate mags of all the famous Yanks that dropped in (and still do)... hard to put into words. Birthplace of UK street skateboarding and still creating and nurturing great skaters today. To destroy it would be, as overused as the phrase is today, cultural vandelism.


 
Too right. When I first started skating it was somewhere to go that was traffic-free and, above all, felt safe. It was a great place to go and watch and learn from older skaters, I remember one of them spending a patient half an hour giving me tips on how to ollie better. I was never a particularly good skater to be honest but there was never any piss taking, everyone just got on and it felt good to belong. I still see that today when I stop to watch if I'm passing, the younger skaters learning from the old hands.


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## _pH_ (Jun 12, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Having read up a bit, I don't see any chance for it, tbh
> The commercial argument is so strong. If the SBC was going to get a larger amount of public funding to run their proposed new facilities, then I suspect some compromise could be reached. But they have to be entirely self-funding. And that means maximising revenue. And that means riverside bars and restaurants. It's inexorable.


 
Fair point, but it still has to get through planning so it's not a fait accompli as yet. Well I hope not.


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Having read up a bit, I don't see any chance for it, tbh
> The commercial argument is so strong. If the SBC was going to get a larger amount of public funding to run their proposed new facilities, then I suspect some compromise could be reached. But they have to be entirely self-funding. And that means maximising revenue. And that means riverside bars and restaurants. It's inexorable.
> 
> At least the skaters are getting a replacement. 20 years ago, they'd have just been told to fuck off. :-/


 
Just charge all the shops double, simples.


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## scifisam (Jun 12, 2013)

_pH_ said:


> Too right. When I first started skating it was somewhere to go that was traffic-free and, above all, felt safe. It was a great place to go and watch and learn from older skaters, I remember one of them spending a patient half an hour giving me tips on how to ollie better. I was never a particularly good skater to be honest but there was never any piss taking, everyone just got on and it felt good to belong. I still see that today when I stop to watch if I'm passing, the younger skaters learning from the old hands.



Yeah, I never see any piss-taking from anyone when someone falls off or whatever.

The "new" one just wouldn't be the same. This one's developed organically and is really owned by the people who make and use it. And tourists absolutely love it.


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## Crispy (Jun 12, 2013)

Hopefully they can get the new area up and running well in advance, so the culture isn't wiped out.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jun 12, 2013)

It's an interesting issue because the redevelopment is addressing the flaws in the original architecture.  Part of the flaw in the design was the under-croft section which became a barren no go zone and then a skate area.


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## scifisam (Jun 12, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Hopefully they can get the new area up and running well in advance, so the culture isn't wiped out.



That's very unlikely. And it'll be sanitised and organised beyond usefulness.

My daughter and her friends spent lots of time playing in the "woods" behind the city farm, creeping through the branches, making dens to hide in, having weird make-believe games that I didn't understand at all. When the farm noticed this, they trimmed the branches to give more space to play - so no creeping; put in a ready-made den - so no building; and put up signs about woods in fairy stories - so no making up your own. They also put up signs directing visitors to it, so grown-ups go there with their toddlers rather than kids playing on their own with parents nearish.

They meant well but they sucked all the fun out of it. That's what I imagine happening to the new skate park.


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## g force (Jun 12, 2013)

It is a wonderful place simply because it grew completely organically. Even when it became smaller it was still a great venue a place that skaters all over the world came to skate there because it was iconic.

The problem, IMO, seems to be that the decision has already been made with regard to the redevelopment...not sure they can or indeed want to keep the area and develop around it.


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## shygirl (Jun 12, 2013)

My friend had the following letter published in 'Building Design':

*Skateboarders are no sideshow*
My son (Louis Tingle 1986-2004) spent the best part of his life at the Southbank skateboarders’ undercroft (Debate May 17): perfecting his craft, making friends and participating in the most unique and diverse space in London.





Source: iStock
Wipeout: the Southbank Centre’s plans would involve moving the skate park.

A few weeks ago I was invited to the first meeting on the future of the skateboarders and it seemed to me to be a fait accompli. The discussion was about the details of the new skateboarding area being submitted for planning.  How ironic that a “heritage space” is proposed to document the history of the skateboarders after killing them off! OK, they are to be moved around the corner to their “purpose-built” space — an anathema for skateboarders if ever there was one — and maybe they will move on, but to where in this increasingly privatised, theme-parked London?  If the restaurants have to happen, why not think a bit more creatively? Build around the spectacle. Not in a zoo-like way, but perhaps diners could catch glimpses of feet through the air and fast-moving shadows. Make the skateboarders part of the experience of being at the South Bank, part of the continuation of history rather than the end of a story pinned on a wall.

_Sarah Boyd 
London SE15_


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## clicker (Jun 12, 2013)

Will be a real shame if it goes. Who doesn't stop and have a gander - appeals to all, young and old. Gets kids interested in discovering the SouthBank. Other kids get exercise in a relatively safe environment. It's free to all. Been there forever and doesnt disturb anyone. Enhances an otherwise dank spot. Allows creative flair on the walls. Photo op for tourists .So successful it polices itself with no interference from 'grown ups'. the kids have made something to be proud of out of nothing. Hhhmm maybe too many positives - it's bound to go.


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 12, 2013)

> ...infilling of ground floor undercrofts. Providing an increase of circa 9,200sqm arts/cultural/leisure use


 
Bollocks. They'll turn it into a wanky cafe or art space. The South Bank does not need any more "arts/culture/leisure" at the expense of this. There isn't even a specific proposal on what to do with it. It's just a generic 'turn it into an arts space' idea. Fuck that.

If the skate area isn't an amazing example of arts/culture/leisure already then what is? Is destroying history. You can't just build new spaces elsewhere. FFS, for all the reasons above, it'll remove the historical ties and suck the fun out of it.

Leave them kids alone.


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## g force (Jun 13, 2013)

shygirl - you've nailed it with that. A lot of the initial work has been around trying to 'save' the current area and mobilise a campaign around that. Sadly, I don't think there is any chance of it being saved, the decision has been made.

Indeed, there have been some articles within the skate circles suggesting that it would be better use of time and energy to engage with the developers now over the new space - that the decision has been made and there's  no way in hell they'll accommodate the current space within the new development of retail/restaurant units.

This seems to have been the most balanced so far: http://www.huckmagazine.com/features/farewell-southbank/


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## TopCat (Jun 13, 2013)

I was skating there is the mid seventies and loved it. I think we should get all the old skool out with our boards and arthritis and have another go.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 13, 2013)

I visited London with my parents in about 1988 when I was about ten. I can't really remember what we did but I clearly remember seeing the skaters there. It's a real shame they want to get rid of it and I completely agree that the idea it needs to be replaced by something 'cultural' is complete nonsense - it's absolutely a cultural thing as much as the NT is.


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## Manter (Jun 13, 2013)

I've never skated in my life, but I think it's important to keep things like that and the book market as they are what make the south bank what it is- its more than another stretch of manicured retail space, with identikit rows of the usual suspects, its an unexpected place, a mix of people and uses, you go there because you don't know what you'll see, who you'll meet.  It'll be a real shame if it becomes yet another public art space that is completely manicured and controlled, wittering about inclusion but not actually including anyone outside their core ABC1 demographic.


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## ska invita (Jun 13, 2013)

isnt the building listed? wont building shops there significantly change the original design?


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## ska invita (Jun 13, 2013)

shygirl said:


> OK, they are to be moved around the corner to their “purpose-built” space — an anathema for skateboarders if ever there was one


not necessarily an anathema - purpose built skate parks give a better skate and would quite easily be preferable on those terms - i tend to agree with g forces link http://www.huckmagazine.com/features/farewell-southbank/
whats sad is that people walk up and down southbank and get to stop and watch - is the new proposed spot still visible from the thames path? if so then its not that bad really and might even be an improvement?


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## g force (Jun 13, 2013)

Under the bridge, so presumably open on one side for people to stop and watch, or even a dedicated 'viewing' area...though who knows what that would turn into. Most skate parks are pretty vanilla...lips, a few humps, some rails/elevated area. That's about it.

Southbank and the ledges, the slope, the flat ground. The thrust of the Huck piece is really not "give up" but more "put energy into making the replacement spot as good as it can be". Lets face it a loose group (albeit one that is increasingly organised around this cause) of people versus a developer and local council will only go one way.

They talk about cultural diversity but only on their specific, and often quite narrow terms.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jun 13, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I visited London with my parents in about 1988 when I was about ten. I can't really remember what we did but I clearly remember seeing the skaters there. It's a real shame they want to get rid of it and I completely agree that the idea it needs to be replaced by something 'cultural' is complete nonsense - it's absolutely a cultural thing as much as the NT is.


It's not even going to be a 'cultural' space, it will be MORE riverfront retail and coffee shops, all of the proposed cultural investment is around the back of the building on Upper Ground.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 13, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> It's not even going to be a 'cultural' space, it will be MORE riverfront retail and coffee shops, all of the proposed cultural investment is around the back of the building on Upper Ground.


 
Going for the complete set of chain restaurants?  Obviously what's lacking is a Strada, or whatever they don't have now.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jun 13, 2013)

There's a lot of building going on around the area at the moment with lots of high rise flats and renovations of existing buildings. There will be a lot of luxury flats (Southbank tower and some of the building around Blacfriars Bridge too I believe) with little to no social of affordable housing, the local bank has closed down and there are plans to bring more shops, supermarkets and cafes into the area around Blackfriars and Stamford Street. The sense of neighbourhood around there is fast being eroded and while residents are trying to get together and form neighbourhood groups to try to influence decisions, the might of the developers is a lot to contend with. It's saddening to think that in little time it will become a riverside shopping destination but that's the way it looks.

Urgh, another thing: the new Jubilee Gardens landscaping around the London Eye looks lovely doesn't it? 
It does look inviting but it's an entirely unusable as you're not allowed to scoot, skate, cycle or let dogs off a lead at any time. Any fun at all is quickly curtailed by an over zealous security man who gruffly reprimands you for throwing a frisbee near a flower bed. You've also got to take a longer route around the grass to go across it because woe betide you if you dare try to cut across it and jump over the flowers...If it is supposed to be an ornamental garden, I can't imagine why they didn't just make an impressive ornamental garden. At present the children's area is fenced off and they are not allowed to do anything but sit outside of that area. It sucks.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 13, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Going for the complete set of chain restaurants?  Obviously what's lacking is a Strada, or whatever they don't have now.


there's no taco bell

e2a there's only 3 taco bells in the country http://www.tacobelluk.co.uk/contact.html


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## cesare (Jun 13, 2013)

scifisam said:


> That's very unlikely. And it'll be sanitised and organised beyond usefulness.
> 
> My daughter and her friends spent lots of time playing in the "woods" behind the city farm, creeping through the branches, making dens to hide in, having weird make-believe games that I didn't understand at all. When the farm noticed this, they trimmed the branches to give more space to play - so no creeping; put in a ready-made den - so no building; and put up signs about woods in fairy stories - so no making up your own. They also put up signs directing visitors to it, so grown-ups go there with their toddlers rather than kids playing on their own with parents nearish.
> 
> They meant well but they sucked all the fun out of it. That's what I imagine happening to the new skate park.


That's similar to what they're proposing to do with part of the plague pits in Blackheath. At the moment they're adventure informal play area used by kids - but they want to pave it and put swings etc. Dire.


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## shygirl (Jun 13, 2013)

ska invita said:


> not necessarily an anathema - purpose built skate parks give a better skate and would quite easily be preferable on those terms - i tend to agree with g forces link http://www.huckmagazine.com/features/farewell-southbank/
> whats sad is that people walk up and down southbank and get to stop and watch - is the new proposed spot still visible from the thames path? if so then its not that bad really and might even be an improvement?


 
Most of post 20 was a letter from my friend which got published in 'Building Design'.  I think people are saying one of the problems with the proposed site is that it is square and smaller and will result in more collisions.


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## ska invita (Jun 13, 2013)

Sounds a bit rubbish


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## Winot (Jun 13, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> It's not even going to be a 'cultural' space, it will be MORE riverfront retail and coffee shops, all of the proposed cultural investment is around the back of the building on Upper Ground.



The commercial units are funding the rest though. 

Overall it's a pretty impressive development IMO. It would have been even more impressive however if they'd managed to preserve the skatepark.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jun 13, 2013)

Winot said:


> The commercial units are funding the rest though.
> 
> Overall it's a pretty impressive development IMO. It would have been even more impressive however if they'd managed to preserve the skatepark.


We don't need more commercial units though, it is the only stretch of space that is not a commercial unit....


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## Winot (Jun 13, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> We don't need more commercial units though, it is the only stretch of space that is not a commercial unit....



I've got sympathy with that pov but:

- the South Bank Centre is one of the most important cultural centres in the UK

- at the moment it is under-utilised due to disadvantages of original design

- it's also not good at all for pedestrians approaching from south

- the development is a great improvement in both respects

- the quid pro quo is the hiving off of some space for commercial lets

So overall IMO it's worth it, although I do have a lot of sympathy with the views expressed concerning the skatepark. 

Also, there's an argument that more restaurants/cafes are in fact needed - those that are there are often packed.


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## scifisam (Jun 13, 2013)

You're not working for the developers are you, winot?


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## Winot (Jun 13, 2013)

scifisam said:


> You're not working for the developers are you, winot?



No!

ETA - For anyone with an interest in this, I'd recommend a look at the development details in the RFH.


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## Crispy (Jun 13, 2013)

There's also extensive information in the planning application linked in the OP. you want the first Design Statement document.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jun 28, 2013)

Last chance to object here on Lambeth's site.

I'd have more sympathy with the SBC if they were going to knock QEH & Hayward down and start again.  Given they are retaining the original structures it's unfair to move on the skate park folks who reclaimed the dysfunctional architecture.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jun 28, 2013)

I've lodged my objection and scrolling through the comments I see that they haven't consulted very widely about it, no comments from lots of big local organisations.

English Heritage say this 





> We are broadly content that the proposals to infill the undercroft will not result in adverse effects on the aesthetic value of the South Bank Conservation Area. However
> we note the volume of representations from the skateboarding community in regards
> to this application, who value the undercroft and feel it is part of their cultural identity.
> English Heritage's primary role is to assess the physical affects of proposed
> ...


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## Me76 (Jun 28, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> I've lodged my objection and scrolling through the comments I see that they haven't consulted very widely about it, no comments from lots of big local organisations.
> 
> English Heritage say this


Is that likely to have any affect do you reckon?  

I was quite surprised to see it comes under Lambeth.  I never realised Lambeth went all the way to the river :blush:


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## clicker (Jun 28, 2013)

cesare said:


> That's similar to what they're proposing to do with part of the plague pits in Blackheath. At the moment they're adventure informal play area used by kids - but they want to pave it and put swings etc. Dire.


i didnt know that....travesty! As a kid that area to us was 'cowboy land' - hours of grazed knees and nettle rash pelting through it on our bikes....was it originally bomb craters?


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jun 28, 2013)

Me76 said:


> Is that likely to have any affect do you reckon?
> 
> I was quite surprised to see it comes under Lambeth.  I never realised Lambeth went all the way to the river :blush:


I hope so as it is external, independent recognition of the cultural significance of the area but im afraid that a part of me, a cynical part, thinks it won't make much of a difference.


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## g force (Jul 5, 2013)

Small victory - long way to go: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/04/southbank-centre-skateboarders-campaign-redevelopment

Nicholas Hytner, in atypical style, wrote a 2k word objection letter that made for some fine points: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jul/03/nicholas-hytner-southbank-centre


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 8, 2013)

Missed this news, great stuff, English Heritage was in favour but got behind the skate boarders as well and acknowledged the huge outcry from that community.


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## DJWrongspeed (Aug 1, 2013)

bump, I see Billy Bragg has waded in over at the Guardian. I found the original designs on the table from Richard Rogers back in '94. No skateboarders there either. This was shelved in the end because those involved couldn't agree  There was outcry at the time because of the millions thrown at it to achieve nothing.








(not sure the plan was exactly to open up the RFH )


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## Pickman's model (Aug 1, 2013)

DJWrongspeed said:


> bump, I see Billy Bragg has waded in over at the Guardian. I found the original designs on the table from Richard Rogers back in '94. No skateboarders there either. This was shelved in the end because those involved couldn't agree  There was outcry at the time because of the millions thrown at it to achieve nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the thames will never be that calm


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## andysays (Aug 1, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> the thames will never be that calm


 
Or that blue


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## craigxcraig (Aug 1, 2013)

Fozzie Bear said:


> There is a petition here, fwiw (I think responses to the Council are far more imporant and effective at this stage):
> 
> http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...op-the-relocation-of-the-southbank-skate-park
> 
> ...


 
Just signed this and says they need a further 14,000 sigs.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 10, 2013)

The Southbank Centre have now released some design proposals for the new skating venue they seemed determined to create, as well as a nice slick video about their plans to relocate the skating community and how this is a good thing which they ought to be grateful for.
http://www.southbankforall.org


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## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

I know fuck all about skateboarding but I know enough to know the Southbank Centre really don't 'get it' do they?


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## joustmaster (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I know fuck all about skateboarding but I know enough to know the Southbank Centre really don't 'get it' do they?



I like that in the comments section, people have down voted the comments made by the southbank centre so much, that the comments are hidden.


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## cesare (Sep 10, 2013)

clicker said:


> i didnt know that....travesty! As a kid that area to us was 'cowboy land' - hours of grazed knees and nettle rash pelting through it on our bikes....was it originally bomb craters?


I'm not sure what they were originally, I've always known them as the plague pits.


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## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

What does Billy Bragg think?


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## sim667 (Sep 10, 2013)

The stupid thing is that skateboarding is about challenging and pushing what your able to do, as skate park or area is meant to be a fluid change that the users of the area can update or move stuff about in.

So a bunch of fucking developers in suits will never get it right.


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## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

I wouldn't be surprised if the ramps had hidden foldaway seats for the odd impromptu aria.


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## sim667 (Sep 10, 2013)

I trust it will be design so it can be easily closed to create a pop up restaurant by the likes of Jamie Oliver..... Probably sponsored by Sainsbury's.

The UK just turning into a massive fucking sell out. I hate it.


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## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> The Southbank Centre have now released some design proposals for the new skating venue they seemed determined to create, as well as a nice slick video about their plans to relocate the skating community and how this is a good thing which they ought to be grateful for.
> http://www.southbankforall.org



They are offering to fund a new skatepark with input from skaters. 

Is this so inherently flawed that skaters shouldn't play a part in the process?

Is there *anything* they could have done to make you happy (aside from keeping the original space)?


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## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I know fuck all about skateboarding but I know enough to know the Southbank Centre really don't 'get it' do they?



What should they have done (aside from keeping the original space)?


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## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> What should they have done (aside from keeping the original space)?


Keeping the original space is the only option.


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## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Keeping the original space is the only option.



In which case the skaters will end up with no space at all.


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## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> In which case the skaters will end up with no space at all.


No, they'll move on to somewhere unauthorised/manicured.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> In which case the skaters will end up with no space at all.




why should they have the space they made theirs when nobody wanted it taken away now its suddenly saleable land?


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## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

The skateboarders aren't the villains here, for 35 years they've been doing their own thing causing no disturbance. If the southbank centre want to be a representative art complex then let the boarders stay.


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## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> why should they have the space they made theirs when nobody wanted it taken away now its suddenly saleable land?



I understand that POV. I think the Southbank Centre should have kept the space and worked around it (and I say that as a non-skating arts-goer). However, it seems pretty unlikely that that's going to happen, and so I am interested in  the next best solution. 

Are there any purpose built skateparks that are popular with skaters, or are they all 'found' spaces? Stockwell seems pretty popular.


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## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> The skateboarders aren't the villains here,



I didn't say they were!


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## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> I didn't say they were!


True enough you didn't say that and I apologies if I gave the impression you did.

But watching the latest SBC video submission they are really painting the skaters as the awkward squad for refusing to move a few tiny feet away from their traditional spot to the lovely new urban-architech-designed purpose built home under the hungerford bridge - reminiscent of the way travellers are treated.


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## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> True enough you didn't say that and I apologies if I gave the impression you did.



No apology needed.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 10, 2013)




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## purves grundy (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> Are there any purpose built skateparks that are popular with skaters, or are they all 'found' spaces? Stockwell seems pretty popular.


Skateparks are v popular, and I have seen arguments from a few skaters in favour of redevelopment / a new space as the undercroft is so battered and has been subjected to so much vandalism by authorities over the years to make it unskateable.

The vast majority want to retain the space though. It's theirs, the history is unique and immensely special, and no new park, however fun to skate, would replace it. Obviously.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> Is there *anything* they could have done to make you happy (aside from keeping the original space)?


No. As a local resident I do not want the place becoming more commercialised and less inviting for young people. I have not found any satisfactory answer as to why they cannot relocate the retail units, they have not responded to the will of thousands of people who signed the petition and objected to their plans.
I object on the principle, because i dont believe that any particular art or culture has priority over another and that this community is established and should be respected, properly consulted and preserved.
I also object on a personal and purely selfish level because it will diminish my enjoyment of my neighbourhood.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 10, 2013)

And all of those proposals look utterly shit for BMX-ing. The light, the noise, the buskers... it will be sheer hell and I wont be stopping by thats for sure.


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## purves grundy (Sep 10, 2013)

You ride bmx ShiftyBagLady ?


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## sim667 (Sep 10, 2013)

Is play station still open?


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 10, 2013)

purves grundy said:


> You ride bmx ShiftyBagLady ?


yeah, totes. bunnyhopping right now.


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## editor (Sep 29, 2013)

The campaigners were out by the skate park collecting signatures on Saturday. Good luck to them


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## eoin_k (Sep 30, 2013)

scifisam said:


> ...
> My daughter and her friends spent lots of time playing in the "woods" behind the city farm...



Which one?


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## scifisam (Sep 30, 2013)

eoin_k said:


> Which one?



Hackney.


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## editor (Sep 30, 2013)

I added a piece on my blog which will hopefully help publicise the campaign.







http://www.urban75.org/blog/long-li...ghts-to-keep-southbank-undercroft-skate-park/


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 30, 2013)

editor said:


> The campaigners were out by the skate park collecting signatures on Saturday. Good luck to them


 
They've been there every time I've been past for a long time - they're certainly putting the hours in.

I think the Southbank probably weren't expecting them to be able to generate such a fuss. They've done a great job.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Oct 4, 2013)

I got a leaflet through my letterbox proclaiming 'SKATEBOARDING IS SAFE AT THE SOUTHBANK CENTRE' with pictures of their designs. I can't help but think it's a bit unfair that they have the money to produce these leaflets (in which they misrepresent the LLSB's objections to being moved) and circulate similar emails to the thousands of people on their mailing list while LLSB have to rely on catching the attention and good will of passers by. For that reason I think it's quite heartening that they've managed to achieve what they have achieved already.

It's not looking good for the campaign though. The Southbank Centre are becoming increasingly hostile towards them, LLSB are accusing them of misrepresenting what they said and forcing them into a crowd sourcing them money to save the space. Details of the spat are on their facebook page if anyone wants to read all about it (https://www.facebook.com/LongLiveSouthbank) but it doesn't look like any of the supposed consultations or open forums the SBC are conducting at present are aimed at properly resolving the issue. It's a shame but to my mind their supercilious approach to the LLSB campaign, regardless of the rights or wrongs of each position, is a discredit to them.

Anyway. £17million in crowd sourced funding, do you think that's possible?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 4, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Anyway. £17million in crowd sourced funding, do you think that's possible?


 
No chance. I can't quite work out from those letters where the £17million figure is supposed to have come from, do you know? It's an absurd amount of money - the only thing I can think it would relate to would be the cost to buy the space outright and there's no way the skaters are doing that.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Oct 4, 2013)

Yeah, I've no idea where that figure came from. The whole development is suppod to be costing £120 million so it does seem, even proportionaly, high to me. But what would I know about this sort of thing?


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## ShiftyBagLady (Dec 1, 2013)

It would seem that the Southbank Centre have resovled to simply push through their plans for the South Bank from what he Long Live Southbank campaign posted on their Facebook group:



> We warned you that the Southbank Centre wanted us out of the Undercroft at any cost. Their request for more time to ‘consult’ with communities was a ruse to buy more time for the design of their new programmable space under Hungerford Bridge and misinform people into supporting the Festival Wing plans.
> 
> Now is the time for action. We need you to not just like this post but to share and to write to your MP and Lambeth Council to raise your concerns and objections.
> 
> ...


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## Part 2 (Jan 15, 2014)

Boris is against plans to move the skatepark. A comedy skating appearance has to be on the cards.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/15/southbank-skatepark-boris-johnson


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## sim667 (Jan 16, 2014)

Can they not put in objections to the planning applications also?


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## RedDragon (Jan 16, 2014)

I bet the southbank centre junta are kicking themselves for not deploying the Boris-kiss-of-death earlier.


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## Ranbay (Jan 16, 2014)

Awesome news


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## Black Halo (Jan 16, 2014)

Chip Barm said:


> Boris is against plans to move the skatepark. A comedy skating appearance has to be on the cards.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/15/southbank-skatepark-boris-johnson


I need to deploy the suspicious emoticon here  what is he up to?


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## ringo (Jan 16, 2014)

Black Halo said:


> I need to deploy the suspicious emoticon here  what is he up to?



Just what I was thinking, it's smacked of a fait accompli all along. Politicians don't normally attach themselves to lost causes, especially wankers like Boris.


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## TopCat (Jan 16, 2014)

Chip Barm said:


> Boris is against plans to move the skatepark. A comedy skating appearance has to be on the cards.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/15/southbank-skatepark-boris-johnson


I bet that he is actually competent on a deck.


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## killer b (Jan 16, 2014)

It's a bit of a no-brainer - the campaign has a much wider appeal than the southbank centre ever expected (even my dad signed the petition). Johnson can get a bit of good press for his support without having to actually do anything.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2014)

one eye on the votes after closing 10 fire stations has left him looking a right cunt


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## Patrick0 (Jan 17, 2014)

The Southbank Centre is being incredibly flexible in accommodating the skaters. I've read through http://www.thefestivalwing.co.uk/explore/the-skateable-space/ -- the SB Centre is going to spend £1 million building a new skatepark 100 metres towards the London Eye and making it even bigger than it is now. Plus they're guaranteeing they'll continue to provide/maintain the skatepark.

Boris couldn't care less about the skaters, it's purely him seeing it as bringing in votes with no cost to himself.

The SB Centre have no obligation to provide a skate park, it is their land and their obligation is to provide art and performances. It's really Lambeth Council's obligation to be providing the skaters with a venue. If the SB centre was a commercial enterprise then the skatepark would have been kicked out years ago.

Of course the reason they're moving the skatepark is so they can have more shops/businesses where the skatepark is now - this is the only way they can bring in cash to pay for the galleries, exhibitions and performances in all the Southbank venues.

Personally, I'd much rather see the SBC having a greater income and being able to provide more art and performance for everyone. The restaurants and shops have made the area far more popular than it ever was in the past and more of them will be a good thing for the area. The skaters will still be able to skate and everyone'll be happier.


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## killer b (Jan 17, 2014)

hi billy.


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## joustmaster (Jan 17, 2014)

Patrick0 said:


> The Southbank Centre is being incredibly flexible in accommodating the skaters. I've read through http://www.thefestivalwing.co.uk/explore/the-skateable-space/ -- the SB Centre is going to spend £1 million building a new skatepark 100 metres towards the London Eye and making it even bigger than it is now. Plus they're guaranteeing they'll continue to provide/maintain the skatepark.
> 
> Boris couldn't care less about the skaters, it's purely him seeing it as bringing in votes with no cost to himself.
> 
> ...


i wonder who patrick works for..


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 17, 2014)

Boris doesn't give a shit. He knows he won't and can't have any effect on the outcome. It just makes him look a bit 'down with the kids' to get the young london vote. He wants to look like he cares about keeping London the way it is, with two fingers up to any rampant capitalism, but of course he is just like all the other Tories, actually probably worse than most, and a lazy incompetent self serving buffoon to boot.  When people have made real pleas to Boris to step in to stem big business projects that are obviously  detrimental to local communities, he always backs big business, even in the face of massive local public protest. 

He's on to a winner with this one, because he can't win (which means he wins). Plus as I understand it, it's private land so not really anything to do with him is it?


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## sim667 (Jan 17, 2014)

Patrick0 said:


> The Southbank Centre is being incredibly flexible in accommodating the skaters. I've read through http://www.thefestivalwing.co.uk/explore/the-skateable-space/ -- the SB Centre is going to spend £1 million building a new skatepark 100 metres towards the London Eye and making it even bigger than it is now. Plus they're guaranteeing they'll continue to provide/maintain the skatepark.
> 
> Boris couldn't care less about the skaters, it's purely him seeing it as bringing in votes with no cost to himself.
> 
> ...



Maybe they could use the extra money to get some security staff who aren't total cunts next time they do wonderland.

If the purpose of the Southbank Centre is to provide areas of creativity to the wider community and promote art and expression to the public, then desecrating the current skating area completely undermines their purpose as its the only bastion of true unadulterated expression (both skaters and graffiti) without the sole intent of profiteering in the entire Southbank Centre. Last time i went there it was to see Chris Cunningham, and that was about £40 a ticket, at a guess there's probably 1000 seats in that auditorium, and you can't convince me they aren't profiteering from that as I know damn well it doesn't cost them £40K to set up a couple of projectors and pay someone to stand on a stage and play his videos.


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## sim667 (Jan 17, 2014)

That said, they are fucking cool videos


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## TopCat (Jan 17, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Boris doesn't give a shit. He knows he won't and can't have any effect on the outcome. It just makes him look a bit 'down with the kids' to get the young london vote. He wants to look like he cares about keeping London the way it is, with two fingers up to any rampant capitalism, but of course he is just like all the other Tories, actually probably worse than most, and a lazy incompetent self serving buffoon to boot.  When people have made real pleas to Boris to step in to stem big business projects that are obviously  detrimental to local communities, he always backs big business, even in the face of massive local public protest.
> 
> He's on to a winner with this one, because he can't win (which means he wins). Plus as I understand it, it's private land so not really anything to do with him is it?


Boris gets final say on the planning application so has a huge say. If he opposes the move then it won't happen.


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## killer b (Jan 17, 2014)

Johnson. he isn't your mate.


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## TopCat (Jan 17, 2014)

killer b said:


> Johnson. he isn't your mate.


I have met him though and he was very charming.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jan 20, 2014)

Patrick0 said:


> Plus they're guaranteeing they'll continue to provide/maintain the skatepark.


That's not accurate is it Patrick0? The proposed new (poorly designed) 'skateable space' will in fact be a programmable arts space ‘for the provision of arts and cultural events and activities, including use for commercial purposes and artistic rentals, related to the Owner’s programme of events and income generation as a centre for the arts.’ -( See more at: http://www.llsb.com/#sthash.M9tqmxhC.dpuf)




> The restaurants and shops have made the area far more popular than it ever was in the past and more of them will be a good thing for the area. The skaters will still be able to skate and everyone'll be happier.


Yeah, great. More people, more litter, more drinking, more eating, more cluttering up the walkway... Have you seen the state of the place early on a saturday or sunday morning? It's a shithole. Covered in rubbish, broken glass etc. Aside from the fact that lots of local people won't even be able to afford to make use of these new units, bringing EVEN MORE people down to eat drink and be merry means more litter, more noise and a less inviting/usuable space for locals.


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## Balbi (Jan 21, 2014)

But there's going to be all those rich cunts at Heygate down the road so they'll need to go to equally rich cunt places.



Won't someone think of the rich cunts.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jan 21, 2014)

There will shortly be more luxury flats along the Southbank as well as our Heygate neighbours. (http://www.southbanktower.com), God forbid they wouldn't have anywhere to Consume


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 21, 2014)

Balbi said:


> But there's going to be all those rich cunts at Heygate down the road so they'll need to go to equally rich cunt places.
> 
> 
> 
> Won't someone think of the rich cunts.



I do, every time I sharpen a knife, I think of them.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 21, 2014)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> There will shortly be more luxury flats along the Southbank as well as our Heygate neighbours. (http://www.southbanktower.com), God forbid they wouldn't have anywhere to Consume



Back when riverside (re-)development really kicked in, in the late '80s, I used to joke that the Thames would pretty much end up lined with housing for wealthy wankers.
I think the joke is on me, isn't it?


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## stupid dogbot (Feb 5, 2014)

It's looking like good news for the Undercroft...

http://www.thefestivalwing.co.uk/ne...-wing-final-search-alternative-funding-model/


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## ShiftyBagLady (Apr 29, 2014)

They are arranging some competitions and stuff at the weekend to celebrate the first anniversary of the campaign.
http://www.llsb.com/40-years-later-1-year-on-undercroft-community-jam-4-may/


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jul 9, 2014)

I've found the absence of reportage on the campaign, the community behind the campaign and the importance of the space to them and to the area, quite perplexing. I mean, of course I understand the weight of the Southbank Centre and the might of their influence in London's media and culture etc but nobody really paid attention to the people and the reasons behind the campaign and there a real story there about how. London's public spaces are being monetised and communities marginalised and how culture and art have become the convenient guises of capitalism
Sadly, my impressions were right and only really the tip of the iceberg
http://www.llsb.com/mainstream-media-misses-the-point/

I'm really glad they've been successful so far, I have to say that I appreciate what they've done and in all my personal interactions they've been such a nice bunch of people, not pushy, not expectant, not raging against oppression B&B just patiently and kindly asking for support and sticking to their point despite provocation from the SBC.
They've also taught my boy how to ollie and given him encouragement as well as lots of other kids when they've had skateboarding lessons.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 18, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...uthbank-centre-undercroft-london-remains-open

Victory for the skaters! Excellent work everyone involved. 

Fuck off Bragg.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 18, 2014)

That article is a bit shit as it was never about the skateboarders digging their heels in and refusing to move along the river but about preserving a bit of cultural history...

Still. It's good, good news 
The campaign has been so impressive; it's been such a positive campaign (despite a fair but of provocation, harassment and intimidation from some parties) that so much positivity has come out of it with lots of creative collaborations and extensions of the friendship and community that has resided there for decades. All of it done voluntarily by young people and passionate people. If it had failed it really would have broken my heart because of how positive and binding it has been. I'm really pleased for them


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## Belushi (Sep 19, 2014)

Great news, a great campaign that preserves a little bit of the South Bank that hasn't been over run by corporate retail opportunities


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 19, 2014)

Now, about that garden bridge...


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## Belushi (Sep 19, 2014)

Are you for or against?


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## ringo (Sep 19, 2014)

Really pleased, and really surprised, what a great result


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 19, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Are you for or against?


I love the idea and could never object to a garden but the effect of bringing MORE people to that stretch of the river will not only spoil my peace and quiet but is likely to push the small independant traders out and, with the hotel and new flats and everything else being stuffed into that area, it will most probably make it a horrible circus of a place to live.
Not to mention the rough sleeper who hang around up there and will be made unwelcome and moved on.
I also think it's shit to lock it overnight


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## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm well chuffed about this. 







Full statement here: http://www.urban75.org/blog/londons...-stay-as-undercroft-redevelopment-plans-axed/


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## krink (Sep 19, 2014)

Yes, great news! Fuck off Billy Bragg and take your pop-up shop mates with you!!


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 19, 2014)

Brilliant news! I have had to deal with the Southbank shites loads over the last few years, they make lambeth seem like a cooperative council


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## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

krink said:


> Yes, great news! Fuck off Billy Bragg and take your pop-up shop mates with you!!


Billy fucking Bragg.


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## MrSki (Sep 21, 2014)

Looks like skater's victory.



> A year-and-a-half after the Southbank Centre published its plans for the redeveloped Festival Wing that would have removed the skaters from their habitual haunt in the building’s undercroft, the plans have been scrapped. A joint statement by the centre and the campaign to save the skaters' undercroft, Long Live South Bank, stated that it would be kept open without charge, seemingly indefinitely.



From here.


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