# Bound over to keep the peace - some questions



## taffboy gwyrdd (Dec 26, 2011)

I have a very close friend, let's call him TG, who was bound over following charges where, eventually, the CPS declined to submit evidence to the court (this relates to alledged misbehaviour on a demonstration) and he was thus found Not Guilty by the judge.

2 questions:

1) Can I- my friend get his fingerprints and DNA removed from the Police database after being found not guilty, even if bound over? If so, does one just walk into the local Copshop and ask?

2) Will it show up on an enhanced CRB? A lawyer advises that it is just a court record and even falls off that after 6 months, but I aint sure that answers the question.

I'd prefer certain answers rather than conjecture, but many thanks for whatever constructive things may be said.


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## kenny g (Dec 27, 2011)

2) Would not show up on an enhanced CRB. If he is in doubt it may be worthwhile making a DPA request to the met as to his Police record.

1) http://www.genewatch.org/sub-539488  seem to know what they are up to.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 27, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> 1) Can I- my friend get his fingerprints and DNA removed from the Police database after being found not guilty, even if bound over? If so, does one just walk into the local Copshop and ask?


 It's bloody hard to get that done if you've never even been charged. You can try but it will probably involve a solicitor. I know boys on the estate who've been arrested but charged with nothing and I think they're still on the database.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 27, 2011)

The police will keep your dna and I suspect it may show up on an enhanced crb

after all what makes you different from all the other innocent people on the database?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Dec 27, 2011)

Many thanks for answers so far.

1 thing that springs to mind, not for the first time when asking this kind of question of intelligent activist-types, is the level of uncertainty. Perhaps we all ought to be more clued up about what does and doesn't fit into various levels of CRB snooping.

As for the DNA, I know the chances of getting it wiped are thin, but it's the principle. But I can't be arsed hiring a solicitor and don't know if I would get legal aid. Why would I not be able to make representations myself?


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 27, 2011)

Maybe get in touch with Genewatch for advice.
http://www.genewatch.org/


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## The39thStep (Dec 27, 2011)

You never know what shows up on an enhnaced CRB so I would advise your mate to find a way of explaining something plausible


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## Proper Tidy (Dec 27, 2011)

It might show up on an enhanced CRB - I have an arrest, never charged, NFA'd the day following the arrest, which shows. Other stuff doesn't.

You can ask them to destroy your swab, don't think they are compelled but there was some legal change to DNA without conviction not long back so maybe they are now.

Would probably be easier to just phone a solicitor.


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## 5t3IIa (Dec 27, 2011)

Tidy ^_^


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## 19sixtysix (Dec 27, 2011)

Being bound over is a very old bit of common (I think) law where if you don't promise to behave you get sent to gaol. Not sure if its been challenged under human rights legislation yet and its not a conviction as far as I can see.


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## Proper Tidy (Dec 27, 2011)

5t3IIa said:


> Tidy ^_^



Hello Stels, merry Xmas and all that


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## malatesta32 (Dec 29, 2011)

i was called in by me line manager a couple of years back and they found out id been lying about me criminal record. they were citing stuff from at least 20 years ago!


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## DeadRussian (Dec 29, 2011)

I got bound over to keep the peace a couple of years ago as a result of a public order situation. Enhanced CRBs detail arrests and convictions, standard CRBs just convictions. My bindover didn't show up when my stsndard CRB came back.

Let us know if you have any luck with getting your DNA struck off the register.been thinking about myself for a while, still have my fingerprints though sadly.


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## kenny g (Dec 30, 2011)

Enhanced CRB's can include tittle tattle on Police records if thought justified. This usually happens where the balance is between protection of children and privacy. You would be able to make a good case, IMHO, that being bound over to keep the peace is not relevant to a job where the enhanced CRB was being requested to test your honesty, for example.  There is case law concerning this R (on the application of L) (FC) (Appellant) v
Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis  (Respondent)  http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/docs/j_metropolis.pdf

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/538985.aspx?PageIndex=1 has more.

Many people, including Police Officers and Lawyers, are shockingly unaware of the range of enhanced CRB's. There is no drop off time. Your only hope is that it is decided that it is not justified to disclose information and/or the Police lose the paperwork, or haven't bothered putting it on a national database. If they have taken your DNA and fingerprints they may well have put it on the Police National Computer. They might not have bothered though.

That is why it is worth doing a DPA request to the Met. It costs about £10.


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## TopCat (Jan 3, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I have a very close friend, let's call him TG, who was bound over following charges where, eventually, the CPS declined to submit evidence to the court (this relates to alledged misbehaviour on a demonstration) and he was thus found Not Guilty by the judge.
> 
> 2 questions:
> 
> ...


How the fuck was he bound over if found not guilty by the judge? You only get a bindover for a guilty.


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## Onket (Jan 3, 2012)

kenny g said:


> That is why it is worth doing a DPA request to the Met. It costs about £10.



What's the easiest way to go about doing this?


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## colacubes (Jan 3, 2012)

Onket said:


> What's the easiest way to go about doing this?



If it's from the met info is on this page:

http://www.met.police.uk/information/

If it's another organisation, the info from the Information Commissioners Office is:

*Q: An organisation is holding information about me. How do I get it?*​
If you believe an organisation holds personal information about you, you can ask them to provide you with a copy.​In order to do this you will need to:​
make your request in writing (email is acceptable), clearly explaining or listing the information you want;
keep a copy of this request for your records. If you need to make a complaint to us at a later date we will ask you for a copy of your original request;
we would also recommend sending your letter by recorded delivery so you can be sure of its safe delivery.
 
More info from their page is below:

http://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/faqs/d...ic.aspx#f112F5F72-814E-4AAB-839D-4874380E03C2


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## Proper Tidy (Jan 3, 2012)

TopCat said:


> How the fuck was he bound over if found not guilty by the judge? You only get a bindover for a guilty.



Sometimes the courts will offer to drop the charges if you agree to be bound over - so no conviction will show.


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## 1%er (Jan 3, 2012)

More than 900,000 innocent people who have been arrested in England, Wales or Northern Ireland are thought to have their DNA and computer records retained (2008).

The new Protections of Freedom Bill was published in February 2011.

If the Bill is adopted _most people who are found not guilty or have no further action taken following arrest will have their records taken off the DNA database automatically once the investigation into their case is complete_. A minority arrested for serious offences but not convicted would have their DNA profiles retained for up to five years. Fingerprints would also be deleted at the same time as DNA records and children convicted of a single minor offence would also be taken off the DNA and fingerprint databases after five years.

From here.

Not sure if this will be retrospective, also not sure if bound-over would fall under "_not guilty or have no further action taken"_


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm inclined to think that talking to NACRO or similar might be an idea here.

This suggests that a 'binding over' becomes a 'spent offence' 1 year after the order ends.  I'd therefore have thought that it would show up indefinitely on an enhanced CRB disclosure, since it seems to count as a 'conviction'.

This has more about 'non conviction' info and CRB's - something of a minefield for all concerned.

Having been involved in dealing with police record checks (just before CRB got up and running) I would stress that it's not the role of police / CRB to say "this person is OK to do this job" or (except in a very few circumstances involving sex offences where someone is formally disqualified from working with children / vulnerable people) to say "this person should not do this job" - the CRB is there to provide information to employers to allow the employer to make a decision.

In most cases, the more minor a conviction, and the longer ago it was, the less likely potential employers are to worry too much about it.  Although if it's a job that's exempt from the rehabilitation of offenders act, they are more likely to be negative if you deny having any sort of record and CRB comes back with something.

I'm not sure how many jobs require an absolutely 'clean' record.  Being a copper doesn't (more here)


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## TopCat (Jan 3, 2012)

Proper Tidy said:


> Sometimes the courts will offer to drop the charges if you agree to be bound over - so no conviction will show.


No they don't. They sometimes agree a bind over if you plead guilty.


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## kenny g (Jan 3, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Although if it's a job that's exempt from the rehabilitation of offenders act, they are more likely to be negative if you deny having any sort of record and CRB comes back with something.



Precisely. That is why it is a good idea to do the DPA thing first. If something shows up on the Police National Computer you are shooting yourself in the foot by withholding from your employer if a CRB check is on the cards. It will be seen as at best incompetence and at worst dishonesty.


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## Proper Tidy (Jan 3, 2012)

TopCat said:


> No they don't. They sometimes agree a bind over if you plead guilty.



Nope

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_over



> Magistrates can bind over to be of good behaviour or to keep the peace, any person such as a defendant, witness orcomplainant.[1] This may happen where the case involves violence or the threat of it. Sometimes the prosecution will drop such a charge if the defendant agrees to be bound over in this way. No conviction will be recorded if the matter is settled via a binding over order because the order is regarded as a civil matter.


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## Blagsta (Jan 3, 2012)

TopCat said:


> No they don't. They sometimes agree a bind over if you plead guilty.



Not IME. I was once charged with section 5 public order act, pleaded not guilty in court, charges got dropped to a breach of the peace, found guilty and bound over. It's not a criminal conviction though, its civil.

It's never shown on an enhanced CRB either.


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