# Clapton Ultras Attacked By Far Right



## SpackleFrog (Aug 5, 2015)

There was trouble at a Clapton v Thamesmead game which led to the match being abandoned last night: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shocking-footage-shows-violent-clashes-6196973?a

Clapton Ultras statement here: http://www.claptonultras.org/

Note: Some of the Clapton threads have had to be shut down because of some idiocy. It's an important issue and we should have a thread on it but lets please remember its not fair on the mods to say anything which could amount to slander, libel etc etc.


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## cantsin (Aug 5, 2015)

the "we hate niggers " chant's impressive, especially when the football lot are, as always, trying to claim it's EDL type anti-antifa (possibly from local Millwall/Charlton supposedly)  not racos/fash etc. Wankers.

Assuming Clapton were on the other side of the fencing, looks like they did alright considering .


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## The39thStep (Aug 5, 2015)

Live by the sword die by the sword


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## cantsin (Aug 5, 2015)

(no swords, living or dying, metaphorically or otherwise, from what the video shows- but I'm not biting, peace + good will to all  )


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## LiamO (Aug 5, 2015)

Fuck 'em.


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## BigMoaner (Aug 6, 2015)

the idea of a load of left wing middle class ultras coming face to face with a real football firm is hilarious!  awkward. only if no one gets hurt of course.

looks like just hand bags anyway.


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## cantsin (Aug 6, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> the idea of a load of left wing middle class ultras coming face to face with a real football firm is hilarious!  awkward. only if no one gets hurt of course.




Personally find chubby middle aged nazi mugs bouncing about to a chorus of "we hate n***gers" whilst not achieving very much semi tragic myself, but each to their own eh, you fill your boots big lad.


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> the idea of a load of left wing middle class ultras coming face to face with a real football firm is hilarious!  awkward. only if no one gets hurt of course.
> 
> looks like just hand bags anyway.



real football firm? The were mainly drunken out of shape wankers from the EDL hence the lack of injuries. A real football firm would have not organised it to be on CCTV and have many of their members get nicked for bragging about it on Facebook. A large number of them have been identified and they are looking at up to four years inside for violent disorder.

They don't sound like any firm I would want to be part of if that were my thing.


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## BigMoaner (Aug 6, 2015)

cantsin said:


> Personally find chubby middle aged nazi mugs bouncing about to a chorus of "we hate n***gers" whilst not achieving very much semi tragic myself, but each to their own eh, you fill your boots big lad.


of course they are tragic - should be banned from every groudn for life. my point is that if you bring politics to football matches, sadly this sort of thing will lurk around the corner. football is (or was) a working mans game and middle class ultras will get run out of most working class clubs. Nature of the beast, sadly. I would think the Clapton ultras would get ruined at leeds, millwall, west ham, chelsea, swansea, cardiff, birmingham, etc, etc, etc, etc. Not saying it's right but I just think to these ultra fans why can't they find another sport to latch their causes on to? Just as i wouldn't want to stand next to someone racist abuse, i wouldn't want to stand by someone who is there to promote left wing politics over and over. It's a game of football. Teh beautiful game, isnt that enough of itself? Can't all the ultras go to the tennis or Crystal Palace FC?


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> of course they are tragic - should be banned from every groudn for life. my point is that if you bring politics to football matches, sadly this sort of thing will lurk around the corner. football is (or was) a working mans game and middle class ultras will get run out of most working class clubs. Nature of the beast, sadly. I would think the Clapton ultras would get ruined at leeds, millwall, west ham, chelsea, swansea, cardiff, birmingham, etc, etc, etc, etc. Not saying it's right but I just think to these ultra fans why can't they find another sport to latch their causes on to? Just as i wouldn't want to stand next to someone racist abuse, i wouldn't want to stand by someone who is there to promote left wing politics over and over. It's a game of football. Teh beautiful game, isnt that enough of itself? Can't all the ultras go to the tennis or Crystal Palace FC?



All clubs should be sterile is what you are saying yes? And those that are not deserve to be attacked.  Fuck that shit.


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## BigMoaner (Aug 6, 2015)

No, i think all clubs should be watched by people who love the game and love the area they and their parents come from, not love teh game to further some political agenda.


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> No, i think all clubs should be watched by people who love the game and love the area they and their parents come from, not love teh game to further some political agenda.



You can love the game and be political without deserving to be attacked for it. You are pandering to fascists here.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 6, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> of course they are tragic - should be banned from every groudn for life. my point is that if you bring politics to football matches, sadly this sort of thing will lurk around the corner. football is (or was) a working mans game and middle class ultras will get run out of most working class clubs. Nature of the beast, sadly. I would think the Clapton ultras would get ruined at leeds, millwall, west ham, chelsea, swansea, cardiff, birmingham, etc, etc, etc, etc. Not saying it's right but I just think to these ultra fans why can't they find another sport to latch their causes on to? Just as i wouldn't want to stand next to someone racist abuse, i wouldn't want to stand by someone who is there to promote left wing politics over and over. It's a game of football. Teh beautiful game, isnt that enough of itself? Can't all the ultras go to the tennis or Crystal Palace FC?



Clapton are a team in the Essex league who get about 200 people in. They're extremely easy to ignore if you're not interested.


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## frogwoman (Aug 6, 2015)

Have you seen the average price of football tickets these days?


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## Thimble Queen (Aug 6, 2015)

They were asking for it


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## Thimble Queen (Aug 6, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Have you seen the average price of football tickets these days?



Only a tenner in at Dulwich


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## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Only a tenner in at Dulwich


how much is it at thamesmead?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 6, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Have you seen the average price of football tickets these days?



Well indeed. If you've a problem with the middle classes taking over football you'd be better off looking at the Premier League clubs charging fifty quid to get in so their traditional fans can't afford it than getting worked up about Clapton.


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## Thimble Queen (Aug 6, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> how much is it at thamesmead?



I have no idea


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

£8


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## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2015)

Fingers said:


> £8


yeh but on recent showing that doesn't guarantee you'll see a game


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but on recent showing that doesn't guarantee you'll see a game



True. They had intelligence weeks before, and the Met only sent four coppers to put on duty.


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## cantsin (Aug 6, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> of course they are tragic - should be banned from every groudn for life. my point is that if you bring politics to football matches, sadly this sort of thing will lurk around the corner. football is (or was) a working mans game and middle class ultras will get run out of most working class clubs. Nature of the beast, sadly. I would think the Clapton ultras would get ruined at leeds, millwall, west ham, chelsea, swansea, cardiff, birmingham, etc, etc, etc, etc. Not saying it's right but I just think to these ultra fans why can't they find another sport to latch their causes on to? Just as i wouldn't want to stand next to someone racist abuse, i wouldn't want to stand by someone who is there to promote left wing politics over and over. It's a game of football. Teh beautiful game, isnt that enough of itself? Can't all the ultras go to the tennis or Crystal Palace FC?



not even wasting time on this " bad as each other " bollocks, especially from someone who sounds suspiciously like they don't know what they re talking about , despite great big " look at me ' Wall avatar - bogus .


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## brogdale (Aug 6, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> No, i think all clubs should be watched by people who love the game and love the area they and their parents come from, not love teh game to further some political agenda.



The reason that these businesses are in a position to produce such entertainment is that millions of Sky/BT etc customers, with no personal connection to the football corporations or their location, pay to view.

That some people, such as the Holmesdale Fanatics, seek to articulate a political agenda at these businesses does not necessarily imply that they don't love the game or area.


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> of course they are tragic - should be banned from every groudn for life. my point is that if you bring politics to football matches, sadly this sort of thing will lurk around the corner. football is (or was) a working mans game and middle class ultras will get run out of most working class clubs. Nature of the beast, sadly. I would think the Clapton ultras would get ruined at leeds, millwall, west ham, chelsea, swansea, cardiff, birmingham, etc, etc, etc, etc. Not saying it's right but I just think to these ultra fans why can't they find another sport to latch their causes on to? Just as i wouldn't want to stand next to someone racist abuse, i wouldn't want to stand by someone who is there to promote left wing politics over and over. It's a game of football. Teh beautiful game, isnt that enough of itself? Can't all the ultras go to the tennis or Crystal Palace FC?



I don't object to politics in football.  After all, it has always been something around which working class groups have organised - often for good e.g. Red Attitude or the work Celtic are doing around foodbanks.  But, what I do object to is middle-class dilletantes and poseurs colonising a working class sphere, and pretending to be something they're not.  The so-called 'Ultras' aren't anti-fascists; when they met anti-fascists, they spat at and then touted on them!  And whislt nobody on the left wants to see fascists get any sort of victory, there's going to be little solidarity for the Clapton lot, I'm afraid.  To be honest, I expect they'll be bored of it and move onto something else, soon - it'll be a phase for them, like fixed-wheel bikes, over-priced coffee, nerdy glasses, artisinal tattoos, or beards.


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

Blokes have always had beards, since humanity first evolved. Even some women.  It is only recently there has been this fad for not having beards. This having no beard is a phase, everyone will move back to beards soon.


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## cantsin (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> I don't object to politics in football.  After all, it has always been something around which working class groups have organised - often for good e.g. Red Attitude or the work Celtic are doing around foodbanks.  But, what I do object to is middle-class dilletantes and poseurs colonising a working class sphere, and pretending to be something they're not.  The so-called 'Ultras' aren't anti-fascists; when they met anti-fascists, they spat at and then touted on them!  And whislt nobody on the left wants to see fascists get any sort of victory, there's going to be little solidarity for the Clapton lot, I'm afraid.  To be honest, I expect they'll be bored of it and move onto something else, soon - it'll be a phase for them, like fixed-wheel bikes, over-priced coffee, nerdy glasses, artisinal tattoos, or beards.



Not getting back into this , and I'll prob never know or understand why the proper Clapton lot never appeared to try and sort it all out / clarify the situation , but the idea that " there's going to be little solidarity for the Clapton lot" is slightly undermined by the shed loads of , er,  solidarity from all over the shop shown on soc media over the last cple of days - might not necessarily be the sort of solidarity that will mean much if it ever comes properly on top for them, but isn't " little solidarity" either, by a long stretch.


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

cantsin said:


> is slightly undermined by the shed loads of , eh, solidarity from all over the shop shown on soc media over the last cple of days - might not necessarily be the sort of solidarity that will mean much if it ever comes properly on top for them, but isn't " little solidarity" either, by a long stretch.



This, and then others are making excuses for fascists by finger pointing and saying 'but look at their class'


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

cantsin said:


> Not getting back into this , and I'll prob never know or understand why the proper Clapton lot never appeared to try and sort it all out / clarify the situation , but the idea that " there's going to be little solidarity for the Clapton lot" is slightly undermined by the shed loads of , er,  solidarity from all over the shop shown on soc media over the last cple of days - might not necessarily be the sort of solidarity that will mean much if it ever comes properly on top for them, but isn't " little solidarity" either, by a long stretch.



Likes on facebook don't stop people getting a kicking any more than shares has stopped cancer.  It's not solidarity in any meaningful sense.


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

Fingers said:


> This, and then others are making excuses for fascists by finger pointing and saying 'but look at their class'



Nobody is making excuses for fascists.


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## cantsin (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> Likes on facebook don't stop people getting a kicking any more than shares has stopped cancer.  It's not solidarity in any meaningful sense.



Yeah, think i anticipated that partic response tho tbf.


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> Nobody is making excuses for fascists.



Not making excuses for them per say, but finger pointing and saying 'but look at their class' in an effort to shift the blame onto those that were attacked and away from the halfwits who decided to wreck the game.


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## DrRingDing (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> I don't object to politics in football.  After all, it has always been something around which working class groups have organised - often for good e.g. Red Attitude or the work Celtic are doing around foodbanks.  But, what I do object to is middle-class dilletantes and poseurs colonising a working class sphere, and pretending to be something they're not.  The so-called 'Ultras' aren't anti-fascists; when they met anti-fascists, they spat at and then touted on them!  And whislt nobody on the left wants to see fascists get any sort of victory, there's going to be little solidarity for the Clapton lot, I'm afraid.  To be honest, I expect they'll be bored of it and move onto something else, soon - it'll be a phase for them, like fixed-wheel bikes, over-priced coffee, nerdy glasses, artisinal tattoos, or beards.



Gobbing off about people you know fuck all about Athos?


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## DrRingDing (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> Likes on facebook don't stop people getting a kicking any more than shares has stopped cancer.  It's not solidarity in any meaningful sense.



And nor will old timers that dont bother getting out of bed anymore.


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## Thimble Queen (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> Likes on facebook don't stop people getting a kicking any more than shares has stopped cancer.  It's not solidarity in any meaningful sense.



About as meaningful as your drivel here, yeah.


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> Gobbing off about people you know fuck all about Athos?



Obviously, I've not met all of them, and it's quite possible that there's some committed anti-fascists amongst the 'Ultras'.  But I've met enough of them, and seen/heard enough of their antics to doubt the credentials of the group as a whole.


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## DrRingDing (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> Obviously, I've not met all of them, and it's quite possible that there's some committed anti-fascists amongst the 'Ultras'.  But I've met enough of them, and seen/heard enough of their antics to doubt the credentials of the group as a whole.



The people that attend Clapton are a pretty wide group including people you think you're backing.


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> Obviously, I've not met all of them, and it's quite possible that there's some committed anti-fascists amongst the 'Ultras'.  But I've met enough of them, and seen/heard enough of their antics to doubt the credentials of the group as a whole.



How many have you met out of interest?


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> The people that attend Clapton are a pretty wide group including people you think you're backing.



Fair enough.  It's a shame then that the decent ones have allowed themselves to be tarnished by association, then.


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

Fingers said:


> How many have you met out of interest?



High teens/low twenties, at a guess.


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> Fair enough.  It's a shame then that the decent ones have allowed themselves to be tarnished by association, then.



Tarnished by the association of what? How do you define 'decent ones'?


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> And nor will old timers that dont bother getting out of bed anymore.



Touche.


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Tarnished by the association of what? How do you define 'decent ones'?



The decent ones are those who are genuinely committed to working class politics in general, and anti-fascism in particular.  They have been tarnished by their association with a group which abused and touted on fellow anti-fascists.


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> The decent ones are those who are genuinely committed to working class politics in general, and anti-fascism in particular.  They have been tarnished by their association with a group which abused and touted on fellow anti-fascists.



I would say that is the majority of them by that definition.  But we can carry on with this 'they deserved it' line if you wish.


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

Fingers said:


> I would say that is the majority of them by that definition.  But we can carry on with this 'they deserved it' line if you wish.



Would be a good post, if I'd said, or even implied, that those who were attacked deserved it.  I'll say now, clearly and explicitly, I don't think they deserved to be attacked, I don't think they're to blame for the attack, and I despise those who attacked them.  None of which detracts from my original point that they're unlikely to benefit from the solidarity which they otherwise might, but for their group's own previous conduct towards fellow anti-fascists.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 6, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> And nor will old timers that dont bother getting out of bed anymore.


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## DrRingDing (Aug 6, 2015)

Athos said:


> Would be a good post, if I'd said, or even implied, that those who were attacked deserved it.  I'll say now, clearly and explicitly, I don't think they deserved to be attacked, I don't think they're to blame for the attack, and I despise those who attacked them.  None of which detracts from my original point that they're unlikely to benefit from the solidarity which they otherwise might, but for their group's own previous conduct towards fellow anti-fascists.



You talk of what you do not know.


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2015)

Touts and wankers . Whove written their own special chapter in the annals of infamy . A pox on them .


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## LiamO (Aug 6, 2015)

Fuck 'em


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2015)

Fingers said:


> I would say that is the majority of them by that definition.  But we can carry on with this 'they deserved it' line if you wish.



The silent majority obviously . The time and opportunity to speak out has long since passed . Toxic brand , fuck em . The lot of them . They're a cancer .

A touting cancer .


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## Fingers (Aug 6, 2015)

That is getting onto the 'muslims must speak out against acts of terrorism that has nothing to do with them' and 'All Jews must speak out against the atrocities in Gaza even though they are not involved' etc etc territory.

Not going down that road.


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> You talk of what you do not know.



Fair enough, if that's your opinion.  I'm happy to agree to disagree.


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## Casually Red (Aug 6, 2015)

Fingers said:


> That is getting onto the 'muslims must speak out against acts of terrorism that has nothing to do with them' and 'All Jews must speak out against the atrocities in Gaza even though they are not involved' etc etc territory.
> 
> Not going down that road.



We aren't talking about millions of people across the globe . We are talking about a few hundred people , perhaps 250 max,, at least half of whom have demonstrated themselves to be cunts in the physical presence of this silent majority you speak of . And some of whom , who not content with physically abusing anti fascists, touted to the cops on them when they defended themselves from attack .

This is a small group . They've stood over their actions . Silence in such circumstances can only be taken as approval . So fuck them . All .


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## Athos (Aug 6, 2015)

Fingers said:


> That is getting onto the 'muslims must speak out against acts of terrorism that has nothing to do with them' and 'All Jews must speak out against the atrocities in Gaza even though they are not involved' etc etc territory.
> 
> Not going down that road.



It's not really analagous, though.  The Clapton Ultras are a small group, which people choose to join. And one which issues statements which purport to represent the views of the group; if members of the group don't agree with those communications, it's not unreasonable to expect them to distance themselves from them.  If not, it's not unreasonable to assume that they share that position.


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## october_lost (Aug 7, 2015)

Athos said:


> The decent ones are those who are genuinely committed to working class politics in general, and anti-fascism in particular.  They have been tarnished by their association with a group which abused and touted on fellow anti-fascists.


Just to be clear, if this is going back to the Hedley dispute, the person who called the cops was, as I understand it, not a regular of the ground and not an ultra. If anyone disputes this, then they should name the individual member of the clapton ultras who called/talked to the cops and he/she should be fucked off for being a tout.


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## Fingers (Aug 7, 2015)

october_lost said:


> Just to be clear, if this is going back to the Hedley dispute, the person who called the cops was, as I understand it, not a regular of the ground and not an ultra. If anyone disputes this, then they should name the individual member of the clapton ultras who called/talked to the cops and he/she should be fucked off for being a tout.



My understanding too but it is easier to point the finger at a large group of 250 people and demand they all apologise and self flagellate etc


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## Athos (Aug 7, 2015)

october_lost said:


> Just to be clear, if this is going back to the Hedley dispute, the person who called the cops was, as I understand it, not a regular of the ground and not an ultra. If anyone disputes this, then they should name the individual member of the clapton ultras who called/talked to the cops and he/she should be fucked off for being a tout.



That's not my understanding.  But, in any event, it's not just about that one individual's conduct.


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## Casually Red (Aug 7, 2015)

It's easier to point the finger precisely because it's the correct position to take . For example , if a dozen bananas winged their way out of the green brigade section towards a black player one would expect at the very least that section of fans to dissociate themselves from scumbag behaviour . Not shrug their shoulders and say its nothing to do with them and none of their business and make no comment . Silence would speak volumes .
As it does in this case . 

Fuck em .


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## Casually Red (Aug 7, 2015)

Athos said:


> That's not my understanding.  But, in any event, it's not just about that one individual's conduct.



Indeed . That was merely the icing on the cake that you literally couldn't make up .


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## DrRingDing (Aug 7, 2015)

......and the state wins again. Well done.


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## october_lost (Aug 7, 2015)

Fingers said:


> My understanding too but it is easier to point the finger at a large group of 250 people and demand they all apologise and self flagellate etc


This /\/\/\ sounds about right



Athos said:


> That's not my understanding.  But, in any event, it's not just about that one individual's conduct.


You're asking a small informal, politically diverse group to police everyone who attends their football club?

If they didn't criticise the tout, they missed a trick, but the ultras have some very decent people involved. They're by no means politically homogenous, but fucking them all off is just daft.


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## Casually Red (Aug 7, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> ......and the state wins again. Well done.



Again ??

When was the first state win in this series ? When left wingers were surrounded , abused, gobbed on , pelted with cans and bottles , scandalised and demonised ?

Or when they were touted on by their own attackers ?


Yeah, we'll done .

Fuck em .


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## Athos (Aug 7, 2015)

october_lost said:


> This /\/\/\ sounds about right
> 
> 
> You're asking a small informal, politically diverse group to police everyone who attends their football club?
> ...



Fair enough.  If they have some decent people, good luck to those individuals (even if they've allowed themselves to be somewhat tainted by association, and by not speaking out).  But many people who might have otherwise stood with them will be deterred from having anything to do with the Clapton Ultras.


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## Casually Red (Aug 7, 2015)

october_lost said:


> This /\/\/\ sounds about right.



They're not being asked to self flagellate . Merely dissociate themselves from a well publicised series of disgraceful actions by their associates . And a public statement issued in their name .

In fact nobody's even asking for that at this point . That's well in the rear view mirror . The opportunity to speak up was there and wasn't availed of . Point taken .


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## Casually Red (Aug 7, 2015)

october_lost said:


> You're asking a small informal, politically diverse group to police everyone who attends their football club?
> 
> If they didn't criticise the tout, they missed a trick, but the ultras have some very decent people involved. They're by no means politically homogenous, but fucking them all off is just daft.



If they're issuing statements they're taking ownership . And it's about more than just a tout . Anyone who'd stand beside those vermin after what was collectively done by a large group of them needs their head examined . They issued a statement justifying a disgraceful attack on a small group of left wing activists , and made it very clear they were policing who attends their matches . And would continue to Police attendance in that manner . That it was policed to the point of touting is incidental .

So, as liamo..and numerous others have said before me..fuck em . Toxic brand .


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## cantsin (Aug 7, 2015)

october_lost said:


> Just to be clear, if this is going back to the Hedley dispute, the person who called the cops was, as I understand it, not a regular of the ground and not an ultra. If anyone disputes this, then they should name the individual member of the clapton ultras who called/talked to the cops and he/she should be fucked off for being a tout.



makes simple sense, would be good to know from them why this hasn't happened.


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## Casually Red (Aug 7, 2015)

cantsin said:


> makes simple sense, would be good to know from them why this hasn't happened.



It's because they're a shower of cunts .


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## DrRingDing (Aug 7, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> It's because they're a shower of cunts .



Have you considered for one moment you may not know what actually went on by reading Urban? And that take what's posted here with the context and biases that are plainly obvious combined with plenty that is left unsaid?


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 7, 2015)

october_lost said:


> You're asking a small informal, politically diverse group to police everyone who attends their football club?.



I think people are just asking for some consistency. Clapton Ultras policed the attendance of Steve Hedley (and a bunch of assorted left wing people who he was standing with).

So they have made the decision to deal with what they see as anti-social elements at their ground. Do they include people who grass up anti-fascists to the police in that? I've not seen anything to suggest that.


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## Smokeandsteam (Aug 7, 2015)

october_lost said:


> Just to be clear, if this is going back to the Hedley dispute, the person who called the cops was, as I understand it, not a regular of the ground and not an ultra. If anyone disputes this, then they should name the individual member of the clapton ultras who called/talked to the cops and he/she should be fucked off for being a tout.



Name the person to the people who issued the statement defending those who decided that Hedley/Villa/Celtic anti fascists weren't welcome at 'their' club and attacked them and which led to the old bill being involved?


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## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2015)

Fuck 'em


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## juice_terry (Aug 7, 2015)

This was an easy result handed to the Fash !! If there had been "threats" issued weeks prior to this why no scouting of the area pre match ? Why no organisation to counter any attack efficiently ? .. Clapton  ultras need to live up to the anti fascist label properly and stop using it as a fashion gimmick .. Things like this do more damage to anti fascism than they care to realise .. They need to organise properly or not at all .. I've got no sympathy for them although I don't like seeing anyone attacked by the Fash .. As others have said fuck them


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## tonysingh (Aug 7, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I think people are just asking for some consistency. Clapton Ultras policed the attendance of Steve Hedley (and a bunch of assorted left wing people who he was standing with).
> 
> So they have made the decision to deal with what they see as anti-social elements at their ground. Do they include people who grass up anti-fascists to the police in that? I've not seen anything to suggest that.



The Clapton Ultras get to decide who can and cannot attend games at 'their' ground? That's tolerant of them isn't it? Seems to me, going on that, that they ain't that different to the wankers that jumped them.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2015)

I think the Wealdstone Raider would be too much for the Clapton Ultras


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2015)

he seems like a good egg behind the football bluster- did a charity single off the back of his internet fame


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 7, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> This was an easy result handed to the Fash !!



Was it that much of a "result"? From the tiny bit of footage (on someone's phone not CCTV) that's surfaced it looks like a stand off with both sides lobbing stuff. They're bragging about it, but then they always do. Clapton's statement talks about being attacked but what would you rather was in the prosecution case against you - a statement that makes a clear case for self defence or a load of FB blather about being a 'real firm'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Was it that much of a "result"? From the tiny bit of footage (on someone's phone not CCTV) that's surfaced it looks like a stand off with both sides lobbing stuff. They're bragging about it, but then they always do. Clapton's statement talks about being attacked but what would you rather was in the prosecution case against you - a statement that makes a clear case for self defence or a load of FB blather about being a 'real firm'.


1) the 'clear case for self defence' will not be in the prosecution case; it would, as the self defence bit suggests, be in the defence case; 2) the facebook blather will be in the prosecution case.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 7, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> This was an easy result handed to the Fash !! If there had been "threats" issued weeks prior to this why no scouting of the area pre match ? Why no organisation to counter any attack efficiently ? .. Clapton  ultras need to live up to the anti fascist label properly and stop using it as a fashion gimmick .. Things like this do more damage to anti fascism than they care to realise .. They need to organise properly or not at all .. I've got no sympathy for them although I don't like seeing anyone attacked by the Fash .. As others have said fuck them



they mobbed up / all travelled together, and from what you could see on the videos ( someone who was there might contradict or back up ) looked like they held their own at the entrance / in the car park . Not sure where you got the 'easy result for fash' idea from, unless you've seen / heard different ?

The fact that there's Antifa flags etc at Clapton, and they get involved in Antifa activities doesnt mean they think they're RA / AFA late 80's etc I'd guess, they're non league football bods first and foremost, and whilst it would no doubt be advisable to be as vigilant as possible when dealing with fash, there's no point expecting them to adopt squad style tactics . As far as the football enviroment goes, having some decent  numbers, sticking together and not running at the first sign of difficulties will go a long way you'd think.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> 1) the 'clear case for self defence' will not be in the prosecution case; it would, as the self defence bit suggests, be in the defence case; 2) the facebook blather will be in the prosecution case.



All relevant documentation would be there - even non-used - under disclosure rules.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> All relevant documentation would be there - even non-used - under disclosure rules.


the prosecution's case is the case which the prosecution make in court based on selected evidence they have obtained. evidence they have obtained will as you say be shared. but the documentation is not the prosecution case.


----------



## chilango (Aug 7, 2015)

One small, but imo important, point.

*A physical defence of the Clapton Ultras need not equal a political defence of the Clapton Ultras.*

There's plenty of precedent for this kind of position.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2015)

chilango said:


> One small, but imo important, point.
> 
> *A physical defence of the Clapton Ultras need not equal a political defence of the Clapton Ultras.*
> 
> There's plenty of precedent for this kind of position.


the feeling i've got from some posts above is that the sort of clapton fan who grasses people up doesn't attract physical, let alone political, defence. i don't see how you can easily defend cu without defending other clapton fans.


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 7, 2015)

From the video footage it looks like a case of handbags but a Clapton fan or two hospitalised will no doubt likely be claimed as a "victory" for the Fash


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 7, 2015)

cantsin said:


> they mobbed up / all travelled together, and from what you could see on the videos ( someone who was there might contradict or back up ) looked like they held their own at the entrance / in the car park . Not sure where you got the 'easy result for fash' idea from, unless you've seen / heard different ?
> 
> The fact that there's Antifa flags etc at Clapton, and they get involved in Antifa activities doesnt mean they think they're RA / AFA late 80's etc I'd guess, they're non league football bods first and foremost, and whilst it would no doubt be advisable to be as vigilant as possible when dealing with fash, there's no point expecting them to adopt squad style tactics . As far as the football enviroment goes, having some decent  numbers, sticking together and not running at the first sign of difficulties will go a long way you'd think.


I'm not saying they should be adopting "squad" tactics but they should at least have done the basics given they were forewarned


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> I'm not saying they should be adopting "squad" tactics but they should at least have done the basics given they were forewarned


yeh it's not like it's the first time they've known the main opposition might not be on the pitch


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 7, 2015)

This was an organised fascist attack against "anti fascists" three of whom required hospital treatment one with a severely broken arm .. This will be claimed as a victory by the Fash regardless


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> This was an organised fascist attack against "anti fascists" three of whom required hospital treatment one with a severely broken arm .. This will be claimed as a victory by the Fash regardless


very much so, it's the first time they've had this sort of success for some years.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2015)

Fingers said:


> My understanding too but it is easier to point the finger at a large group of 250 people and demand they all apologise and self flagellate etc


rather harder to make them do it


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 7, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> This was an organised fascist attack against "anti fascists" three of whom required hospital treatment one with a severely broken arm .. This will be claimed as a victory by the Fash regardless



Where are you getting 'broken arm' from? Not disputing it just wondering what the source is? 

The fash are definitely celebrating it as a victory in any case. That said, a prepared ambush in their heartland that only results in a few injuries to the opposition isn't all that clever. It looks (again from the small amount of footage) that they're not willing to chase CU into the car park - possibly a bit surprised at the amount of resistance being put up by these middle class beardy lefties.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Where are you getting 'broken arm' from? Not disputing it just wondering what the source is?
> 
> The fash are definitely celebrating it as a victory in any case. That said, a prepared ambush in their heartland that only results in a few injuries to the opposition isn't all that clever. It looks (again from the small amount of footage) that they're not willing to chase CU into the car park - possibly a bit surprised at the amount of resistance being put up by these middle class beardy lefties.


or maybe considering they'd been put to flight decided to remain in possession of the field of battle.


----------



## cesare (Aug 7, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Where are you getting 'broken arm' from? Not disputing it just wondering what the source is?
> 
> The fash are definitely celebrating it as a victory in any case. That said, a prepared ambush in their heartland that only results in a few injuries to the opposition isn't all that clever. It looks (again from the small amount of footage) that they're not willing to chase CU into the car park - possibly a bit surprised at the amount of resistance being put up by these middle class beardy lefties.


Thamesmead isn't "their heartland".


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2015)

cantsin said:


> they mobbed up / all travelled together, and from what you could see on the videos ( someone who was there might contradict or back up ) looked like they held their own at the entrance / in the car park . Not sure where you got the 'easy result for fash' idea from, unless you've seen / heard different ?
> 
> The fact that there's Antifa flags etc at Clapton, and they get involved in Antifa activities doesnt mean they think they're RA / AFA late 80's etc I'd guess, they're non league football bods first and foremost, and whilst it would no doubt be advisable to be as vigilant as possible when dealing with fash, there's no point expecting them to adopt squad style tactics . As far as the football enviroment goes, having some decent  numbers, sticking together and not running at the first sign of difficulties will go a long way you'd think.



Are they non league football pods first and foremost ? I go to Stockport County occasionally who are non league now and don't see banners against patriarchy , food collections for asylum seekers and any of the other lifestyle traits of a lefty milieu .


----------



## cantsin (Aug 7, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Are they non league football pods first and foremost ? I go to Stockport County occasionally who are non league now and don't see banners against patriarchy , food collections for asylum seekers and any of the other lifestyle traits of a lefty milieu .



horses 4 courses innit


----------



## cantsin (Aug 7, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Where are you getting 'broken arm' from? Not disputing it just wondering what the source is?
> 
> The fash are definitely celebrating it as a victory in any case. That said, a prepared ambush in their heartland that only results in a few injuries to the opposition isn't all that clever. It looks (again from the small amount of footage) that they're not willing to chase CU into the car park - possibly a bit surprised at the amount of resistance being put up by these middle class beardy lefties.



Pie n Muppet Squad were claiming a result after managing a few selfies 2 hrs before kick off outside Clapton last season, so you can forgive them getting a bit over excited by some fearless bin chucking from 30 yds/shouting a lot etc


----------



## LiamO (Aug 7, 2015)

Fuck 'em


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2015)

cantsin said:


> horses 4 courses innit



middle class left scene politics


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> middle class left scene politics


exit stage right?


----------



## scaffold (Aug 7, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> This was an organised fascist attack against "anti fascists" ..blah.. This will be claimed as a victory by the Fash regardless



In the interests of not giving the fash a victory, it's probably best not post in public about injuries to antifascists, accurate or not.


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

See the Politician and his chums are sticking with this Clapton Ultras are grasses tune eventhough they know full well that these people were not connected to CU. But just spreading lies to discredit us as much as they can.
The politician was asked not to come to the scaffold and he did. Him and his fanboys were abusive to the female supporters and caused shitloads of grief. Sad that the Celtic fans that knew nothing about it got caught up in it. The politician being the politician got what we wanted, a firm wedge between the two groups.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> See the Politician and his chums are sticking with this Clapton Ultras are grasses tune eventhough they know full well that these people were not connected to CU. But just spreading lies to discredit us as much as they can.
> The politician was asked not to come to the scaffold and he did. Him and his fanboys were abusive to the female supporters and caused shitloads of grief. Sad that the Celtic fans that knew nothing about it got caught up in it. The politician being the politician got what we wanted, a firm wedge between the two groups.



tbf, there's  been no confirmation ( such as it can be " confirmed" ) on here that the grasses " were not connected to CU " , just some vague allusions iirc - either way , this is now prob going down the "30 pages of daftness/thread closed " route


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

Well it was confirmed by the Politician's men rights activist friend on one of his many blogs. Tried despartely to connecting it to Clapton by showing a random picture of two of the flags together. Pathetic.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Well it was confirmed by the Politician's men rights activist friend on one of his many blogs. Tried despartely to connecting it to Clapton by showing a random picture of two of the flags together. Pathetic.



Are you ready to release the statement denouncing the touting, or are you all still compiling it?


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

What and give lip service to the Politician? Maybe if we had information sooner we could of made steps prevent that bullshit, but no one knew anything about it until just before the court case. Its very evident that we dont work with police. They have never been around when we have had threats and had to deal with fash. In addition , we work with NMP handing out bust cards and doing antiraids work. Proof is in the pudding.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> What and give lip service to the Politician? Maybe if we had information sooner we could of made steps prevent that bullshit, but no one knew anything about it until just before the court case. Its very evident that we dont work with police. They have never been around when we have had threats and had to deal with fash. In addition , we work with NMP handing out bust cards and doing antiraids work. Proof is in the pudding.



So "no", then?


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

Well you wanna know whether we work with police? Rather show it then write some statement for the Politican and his fanboys. Depressing thread, sure there are many comitted antifa on here but trying to discredit and make us look weak when we are largely made of immigrants and doing good work in the community. All cos we hurt the Politican's feelings.


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Well you wanna know whether we work with police? Rather show it then write some statement for the Politican and his fanboys. Depressing thread, sure there are many comitted antifa on here but trying to discredit and make us look weak when we are largely made of immigrants and doing good work in the community. All cos we hurt the Politican's feelings.


You are largely made of immigrants?


----------



## Athos (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> See the Politician and his chums are sticking with this Clapton Ultras are grasses tune eventhough they know full well that these people were not connected to CU. But just spreading lies to discredit us as much as they can.
> The politician was asked not to come to the scaffold and he did. Him and his fanboys were abusive to the female supporters and caused shitloads of grief. Sad that the Celtic fans that knew nothing about it got caught up in it. The politician being the politician got what we wanted, a firm wedge between the two groups.



Whilst I've got no time for him, I can understand why he turned up - capitulating to the demands that he didn't would have been tantamount to admitting the allegations againt him (which he denies).  And, clearly, he didn't just bowl up and start abusing women; if he had done that, the Celtic comrades would have had words with him.  Rather, he (and they) were attacked.  When they defended themselves, they were touted on.

What should have happened immediately thereafter is the CU issued a statement explaining that the person who grassed was not a member of their group, or affiliated to it, and that the group wholly condemns any Clapton fans who tout on fellow ant-fascists, and that they woudn't be welcome to stand on the Scaffold.  The Ultras could have then organised some solodiarity action e.g. a fighting fund to help the Celtic lad.

But none of that happened.  It was appallingly mis-handled.  And, understandably, it's damaged the group (and the club's) standing with many on the left.  That's not to say that those people are in any way fans of 'the Politician' or that they're ambivilent about a fash victory.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> What and give lip service to the Politician? Maybe if we had information sooner we could of made steps prevent that bullshit, but no one knew anything about it until just before the court case. Its very evident that we dont work with police. They have never been around when we have had threats and had to deal with fash. In addition , we work with NMP handing out bust cards and doing antiraids work. Proof is in the pudding.


who contacted the police about their tweet?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> All cos we hurt the Politican's feelings.



Well, you spat and threw bottles at him and anyone in his vicinity, if that's what you mean by "hurting feelings". That would have included me had I been there, btw. Given I'm an RMT thug also.


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

Perhaps it was mishandled but to be honest the amount of abuse/threats we got online that any act to support for the Celtic lad would of been rebuffed. The politician and his chums never wanted a resolution, that is very clear. And detroyed all avenues to the group that had travelled down.

Yes westcoasts... largely. Probably more then any other club in the country (percentage wise).


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> See the Politician and his chums are sticking with this Clapton Ultras are grasses tune eventhough they know full well that these people were not connected to CU. But just spreading lies to discredit us as much as they can.
> The politician was asked not to come to the scaffold and he did. Him and his fanboys were abusive to the female supporters and caused shitloads of grief. Sad that the Celtic fans that knew nothing about it got caught up in it. The politician being the politician got what we wanted, a firm wedge between the two groups.


you wanted a firm wedge between the two groups? why?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 8, 2015)

Its very difficult not to pick up the impression from the second star on the left types that live on Planet Clapton Ultras that the biggest threat to the working class is from a handful of nazi sects and the deputy leader of the RMT.


----------



## weepiper (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Perhaps it was mishandled but to be honest the amount of abuse/threats we got online that any act to support for the Celtic lad would of been rebuffed. The politician and his chums never wanted a resolution, that is very clear. And detroyed all avenues to the group that had travelled down.
> 
> Yes westcoasts... largely. Probably more then any other club in the country (percentage wise).


The point of apologising is not for it to be accepted, but because it's the right thing to do.


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66: Im talk about hurting his feelings so he came to cause trouble.

Pickman's model: there are plenty of people on Twitter that expose fash... we accountable for all of them now? And who gives a fuck anyway...


----------



## Athos (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> ... we are largely made of immigrants ...



Some of my best friends are black.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 8, 2015)

westcoast1 said:


> You are largely made of immigrants?



Ethical branding for liberal left activists


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Citizen66: Im talk about hurting his feelings so he came to cause trouble.



Ok thanks for clearing up. Given his mere presence would have caused trouble, it's unusual that you project that as a motivation on his part.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Citizen66: Im talk about hurting his feelings so he came to cause trouble.
> 
> Pickman's model: there are plenty of people on Twitter that expose fash... we accountable for all of them now? And who gives a fuck anyway...


you say you don't work with the police. i was under the impression that cu had been put out by police tweet blaming them for the other day and got in touch with them to put themright. is this not working with the police?


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

How about the Politician apologising for taking all those Celtic fans to a game that he knew he wouldnt be welcome? Creating that conflict for his own ends.


----------



## Athos (Aug 8, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Ethical branding for liberal left activists



A Fair Trade Firm


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you say you don't work with the police. i was under the impression that cu had been put out by police tweet blaming them for the other day and got in touch with them to put themright. is this not working with the police?



Ooh, well spotted.


----------



## Athos (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> How about the Politician apologising for taking all those Celtic fans to a game that he knew he wouldnt be welcome? Creating that conflict for his own ends.



Nobody here is defending him.


----------



## Fingers (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> How about the Politician apologising for taking all those Celtic fans to a game that he knew he wouldnt be welcome? Creating that conflict for his own ends.



To be honest, if I had been put through a kangeroo court and told I could not go to a match, i too would have turned up regardless.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Athos said:


> Nobody here is defending him.


yes. but Tons is bring this up in a practical demonstration of whataboutery after the recent whataboutitis thread.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Well it was confirmed by the Politician's men rights activist friend on one of his many blogs. Tried despartely to connecting it to Clapton by showing a random picture of two of the flags together. Pathetic.



Come on, this is just smear tactics now.


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

No, police said that we starting the trouble and when challenged (by whoever, not by any of us as far as I know) they retracted. Thats hardly working with the police. Very bad for CU if people thought that we are some kind of football firm. Which I can say 100% we are not. We basically wanna have fun and do work in our community. But unfortunately we have to defend ourselves sometimes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Blagsta said:


> Come on, this is just smear tactics now.


a close cousin of whataboutery


----------



## weepiper (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Very bad for CU if people thought that we are some kind of football firm. Which I can say 100% we are not.


Then why on earth did you choose to call yourselves Clapton _Ultras_?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

Anyway, thanks for this reunion thread. That's my Saturday entertainment sorted.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Perhaps it was mishandled but to be honest the amount of abuse/threats we got online that any act to support for the Celtic lad would of been rebuffed. The politician and his chums never wanted a resolution, that is very clear. And detroyed all avenues to the group that had travelled down.
> 
> Yes westcoasts... largely. Probably more then any other club in the country (percentage wise).



Given the abuse directed toward the RMT (as a union, not towards individuals) on your Facebook page, I'm not surprised you were given shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> No, police said that we starting the trouble and when challenged (by whoever, not by any of us as far as I know) they retracted. Thats hardly working with the police. Very bad for CU if people thought that we are some kind of football firm. Which I can say 100% we are not. We basically wanna have fun and do work in our community. But unfortunately we have to defend ourselves sometimes.


why call yourself ultras and act like a football firm when it suits you if you do not in fact have pretensions to be a football firm?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Anyway, thanks for this reunion thread. That's my Saturday entertainment sorted.


here, have some popcorn


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

weepiper: Ultras are  fanantical supporters... much the same way they do on the mainland, sing all game, tifo etc. Dont think you quite understand football fan culture, not all violence. Buying in to what the fash try to paint us as, so they can get football firms to pay us a visit.

Anyway, thats me done. Ta ra


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> No, police said that we starting the trouble and when challenged (by whoever, not by any of us as far as I know) they retracted. Thats hardly working with the police. Very bad for CU if people thought that we are some kind of football firm. Which I can say 100% we are not. We basically wanna have fun and do work in our community. But unfortunately we have to defend ourselves sometimes.


the dalstonist website says cu contacted the police before the match about threats received. do you know anything about that?


----------



## weepiper (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> weepiper: Ultras are  fanantical supporters... much the same way they do on the mainland, sing all game, tifo etc. Dont think you quite understand football fan culture, not all violence. Buying in to what the fash try to paint us as, so they can get football firms to pay us a visit.
> 
> Anyway, thats me done. Ta ra


I understand it fine cheers  better than you by the sounds of it


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> weepiper: Ultras are  fanantical supporters... much the same way they do on the mainland, sing all game, tifo etc. Dont think you quite understand football fan culture, not all violence. Buying in to what the fash try to paint us as, so they can get football firms to pay us a visit.
> 
> Anyway, thats me done. Ta ra


oh yeh only gallant clapton understand footy fan culture


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 8, 2015)

As an observer of all this on social media, it looks like someone or some people are trying to drive a wedge between a militant trade union and wider cultural left wing movements.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> oh yeh only gallant clapton understand footy fan culture



They're not just any old fans, they're _ultras_


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the dalstonist website says cu contacted the police before the match about threats received. do you know anything about that?



You're meticulous.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Blagsta said:


> As an observer of all this on social media, it looks like someone or some people are trying to drive a wedge between a militant trade union and wider cultural left wing movements.


cu, according to tons


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> weepiper: Ultras are  fanantical supporters... much the same way they do on the mainland, sing all game, tifo etc. Dont think you quite understand football fan culture, not all violence. Buying in to what the fash try to paint us as, so they can get football firms to pay us a visit.
> 
> Anyway, thats me done. Ta ra


i saw cu on the anti-austerity march walking blocked up down whitehall. didn't see any other groups of football fans


----------



## Athos (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> weepiper: Ultras are  fanantical supporters... much the same way they do on the mainland, sing all game, tifo etc. Dont think you quite understand football fan culture, not all violence. Buying in to what the fash try to paint us as, so they can get football firms to pay us a visit.
> 
> Anyway, thats me done. Ta ra



That's pretty partonising.  I've been a football fan for decades, turning up week-in-week-out, home and away, to watch my team (from the top flight to the non-league), and I can tell you that, as someone with a grasp on football culture, it's got nothing to do with middle-class wankers colonising a club by importing their skewed understanding of a football culture that has no roots in the english game.  It's just cultural gentrification.


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Perhaps it was mishandled but to be honest the amount of abuse/threats we got online that any act to support for the Celtic lad would of been rebuffed. The politician and his chums never wanted a resolution, that is very clear. And detroyed all avenues to the group that had travelled down.
> 
> Yes westcoasts... largely. Probably more then any other club in the country (percentage wise).


One thing I find on the left is they don't seem to get that some ethnic minorities are actually middle class.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> How about the Politician apologising for taking all those Celtic fans to a game that he knew he wouldnt be welcome? Creating that conflict for his own ends.


We've been through this months ago. Shouldn't you be out and about making Clapton FC more anti fascist or something?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> weepiper: Ultras are  fanantical supporters... much the same way they do on the mainland, sing all game, tifo etc. Dont think you quite understand football fan culture, not all violence. Buying in to what the fash try to paint us as, so they can get football firms to pay us a visit.
> 
> Anyway, thats me done. Ta ra



Lol being a woman means she wouldn't understand football fan culturee, won't have watched as much Green street sequels as you . 

Just remember that when you are next holding a banner ' kicking patriarchy out of football' .


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 8, 2015)

westcoast1 said:


> One thing I find on the left is they don't seem to get that some ethnic minorities are actually middle class.


 And ruling class.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Lol being a woman means she wouldn't understand football fan culturee, won't have watched as much Green street sequels as you .
> 
> Just remember that when you are next holding a banner ' kicking patriarchy out of football' .



Tons isn't a board regular they probably didn't know weepiper is a woman tbf


----------



## weepiper (Aug 8, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Tons isn't a board regular they probably didn't know weepiper is a woman tbf


It wasn't patronising because I'm a woman, it was patronising because they just rocked straight into assuming that no-one else could possibly know anything about ultras without being told by a Clapton fan.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> It wasn't patronising because I'm a woman, it was patronising because they just rocked straight into assuming that no-one else could possibly know anything about ultras without being told by a Clapton fan.



Yeah you've got a fair point there but that what wasn't what 39th step was saying.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 8, 2015)

/


Pickman's model said:


> why call yourself ultras and act like a football firm when it suits you if you do not in fact have pretensions to be a football firm?



Football firm and ultras - two very different things .

Not one thing I've ever seen / heard / read about CU indicates any aspiration to being a " firm" - the clues in the name I'd guess .


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

cantsin said:


> /
> 
> 
> Football firm and ultras - two very different things .
> ...



Yeah I think that was the point Tons was trying to make...


----------



## weepiper (Aug 8, 2015)

Ultras aren't solely about fighting like the traditional image of football casuals but there is a large element of rival teams having a pop at each other if their members meet while out on the lash or outside a stadium when the police aren't looking. And you can't just set up a group of fans who like singing and tifos and flares and expect to opt out of that part of it. And it's particularly brass-necked to try and do it after the incident in question 

Edit, just thinking about the ultra groups I've met/hung out with people from. Green Brigade (Celtic), Fedayn (AS Roma), Boys Roma (AS Roma), Bukaneros (Rayo Vallecano), Livorno, Toulon... They all fucking love a swedge. Seriously this is bollocks to deny it's part of ultra culture.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

cantsin said:


> /
> 
> 
> Football firm and ultras - two very different things .
> ...


so because you've not seen it, it isn't.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

If you are members of a club's ultras, you're not _necessarily_ expected to get involved with fights and it isn't the raison d'etre of the group in question. A firm is primarily concerned with breaking other people's heads in. It really isn't the same thing.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Ultras aren't solely about fighting like the traditional image of football casuals but there is a large element of rival teams having a pop at each other if their members meet while out on the lash or outside a stadium when the police aren't looking. And you can't just set up a group of fans who like singing and tifos and flares and expect to opt out of that part of it. And it's particularly brass-necked to try and do it after the incident in question



Its not that Ultras aren't " solely about fighting ", they're not at all " about fighting" , it's just not what the cultures based around ( even if, like pissed up barmies etc , they'll act up / respond to attack / invasion / provocation on occasion).


----------



## weepiper (Aug 8, 2015)

cantsin said:


> Its not that Ultras aren't " solely about fighting ", they're not at all " about fighting" , it's just not what the cultures based around ( even if, like pissed up barmies etc , they'll act up / respond to attack / invasion / provocation on occasion).


Your experience of European ultras does not match with mine. At all.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Edit, just thinking about the ultra groups I've met/hung out with people from. Green Brigade (Celtic), Fedayn (AS Roma), Boys Roma (AS Roma), Bukaneros (Rayo Vallecano). They all fucking love a swedge. Seriously this is bollocks to deny it's part of ultra culture.



You can be a Bukanero and not ever get in a scrap at all - although chances are there if you do fancy it. In Italy I think it's a different story and the violence is more fundamental to being an ultra. Roma's ultras are disgusting. What were you doing hanging around with them? They go round stabbing innocent spectators in the arse for no good reason.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Your experience of European ultras does not match with mine. At all.



Agreed, it's different in Europe - in scale,intensity, and no doubt willingness to get involved .


----------



## weepiper (Aug 8, 2015)

cantsin said:


> Agreed, it's different in Europe - in scale,intensity, and no doubt willingness to get involved .


It's different in Glasgow too.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

Europe. All of Europe is the same. Great.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> They go round stabbing innocent spectators in the arse for no good reason.



Is this a euphemism?


----------



## weepiper (Aug 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> What were you doing hanging around with them? They go round stabbing innocent spectators in the arse for no good reason.


Weird two groups meeting in the pub scenario. Wasn't very comfortable.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

I thought the defining feature of ultras culture was support for the team


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Is this a euphemism?



No. Italian ultras in general have a thing for this. I think the idea is to be able to do a stabbing with a very low chance of causing a fatality. Roma's ultras have a nasty track record of going after normal spectators around Rome on the nights of Champion's League games.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

poptyping said:


> I thought the defining feature of ultras culture was support for the team



So every football fan is an ultra?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> So every football fan is an ultra?



How did you come to that conclusion?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

poptyping said:


> How did you come to that conclusion?



By this definition:



poptyping said:


> I thought the defining feature of ultras culture was support for the team


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> So every football fan is an ultra?



No because there's being part of a set group and being involved in organised supporter activity - or there's sitting at Old Trafford playing with your mobile as Di Maria twats it into Row U.


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

weepiper said:


> I understand it fine cheers  better than you by the sounds of it


 Athos was right, mine was a shitty patronising post. Although stand by the key points made about ultras, apologies for the rest.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 in the context of previous posts I was making a contrast with firms where a defining feature is going out for a ruck. 

Don't be disingenuous.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Citizen66 in the context of previous posts I was making a contrast with firms where a defining feature is going out for a ruck.
> 
> Don't be disingenuous.



I was looking at it in isolation. Fair enough, thanks for explaining.


----------



## JTG (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Anyway, thanks for this reunion thread. That's my Saturday entertainment sorted.


I'm off out to the football in a bit. Thank fuck it's going to be nothing like anything on this thread


----------



## weepiper (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Athos was right, mine was a shitty patronising post. Although stand by the key points made about ultras, apologies for the rest.


appreciated.


----------



## Nice one (Aug 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> You can be a Bukanero and not ever get in a scrap at all - although chances are there if you do fancy it. In Italy I think it's a different story and the violence is more fundamental to being an ultra. Roma's ultras are disgusting. What were you doing hanging around with them? They go round stabbing innocent spectators in the arse for no good reason.



aye but in italy (in fact pretty much anywhere in europe apart from the uk) there are lots of 'ultras' groups attached to one club often competing with each other and often fighting with each other (and often defined by political differences). 

Perhaps in the future there'll be an emergence of an alternative clapton ultras group who will occupy the main stand?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Citizen66 in the context of previous posts I was making a contrast with firms where a defining feature is going out for a ruck.
> 
> Don't be disingenuous.


so i'm confused by Tons's assertion cu don't work with the police when a) this would seem opposed to the safety of clapton fans on occasion, and b) according to the dalstonist website they do work with thr police. why Tons do you personally object to working with the police around the safetyof clapton fans?


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> so i'm confused by Tons's assertion cu don't work with the police when a) this would seem opposed to the safety of clapton fans on occasion, and b) according to the dalstonist website they do work with thr police. why Tons do you personally object to working with the police around the safetyof clapton fans?


 Right I know I said I was off, but just to clear this up. That article is wrong, we contacted Clapton staff and our fans so they were aware for their own safety. But personally I dont trust to police to protect us from fash so we should continue to organise ourselves. Again personally, I really dont give a shit about people talking to police about fash, wouldnt do it myself but understand why people want them off the street. If Clapton FC or anyone else not CU contact the police there is fuck all we can do about it.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

Nice one said:


> aye but in italy (in fact pretty much anywhere in europe apart from the uk) there are lots of 'ultras' groups attached to one club often competing with each other and often fighting with each other (and often defined by political differences).



Not true in Spain.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> Right I know I said I was off, but just to clear this up. That article is wrong, we contacted Clapton staff and our fans so they were aware for their own safety. But personally I dont trust to police to protect us from fash so we should continue to organise ourselves. Again personally, I really dont give a shit about people talking to police about fash, wouldnt do it myself but understand why people want them off the street. If Clapton FC or anyone else not CU contact the police there is fuck all we can do about it.


if the article is wrong why not leave a comment to that effect? just a suggestion, like.

on the subject of contacting the police, and returning to the unfortunate grassing incident of earlier in the year, there is of course something you can do about it - which is to distance yourself from it. silence famously indicates assent.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model why have you quoted me above? Your post isn't related to what I said.


----------



## Tons (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if the article is wrong why not leave a comment to that effect?


To honest mate, personally I'm not that fussed about some two bob local paper making an error.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Pickman's model why have you quoted me above? Your post isn't related to what I said.


but it is. you said cu aren't up for a ruck being merely a peaceable group of passionate supporters. so, from that starting point i took what i considered to be a dissonant position taken up by Tons.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> To honest mate, personally I'm not that fussed about some two bob local paper making an error.


grand. but seeing as it's a site (relatively) local to clapton it is going to be taken as fact, despite what you may desire.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> but it is. you said cu aren't up for a ruck being merely a peaceable group of passionate supporters. so, from that starting point i took what i considered to be a dissonant position taken up by Tons.



No I was talking more broadly about firms and ultras as I've already clarified.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

poptyping said:


> No


so you're saying cu ARE up for a fight?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Tons said:


> To honest mate, personally I'm not that fussed about some two bob local paper making an error.


and the other issue raised?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> so you're saying cu ARE up for a fight?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

I have cognitive dissonance on this matter. I could turn up to support the ultras but run the risk of being attacked by fash and the ultras themselves.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> so you're saying cu ARE up for a fight?



judging by Southend / Thamesmead seems pretty obvious they can look after themselves when it's put on them - it's the yarning on about it on the interweb afterwards they don't seem so keen on . Inversion of their oppos m.o. by the looks of it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

cantsin said:


> judging by Southend / Thamesmead



And home games against Celtic.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if the article is wrong why not leave a comment to that effect? just a suggestion, like.
> 
> on the subject of contacting the police, and returning to the unfortunate grassing incident of earlier in the year, there is of course something you can do about it - which is to distance yourself from it. silence famously indicates assent.





Tons said:


> To honest mate, personally I'm not that fussed about some two bob local paper making an error.


now, on the subject of contacting the police...


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

Some suggestion Millwall fans were involved in this. Makes sense.


----------



## xslavearcx (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> oh yeh only gallant clapton understand footy fan culture


Well they've got almost 2 seasons of experience of that ...


----------



## Nice one (Aug 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Not true in Spain.



what not true in spain?


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## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

Nice one said:


> what not true in spain?



That clubs have factions of competing ultras with different political agendas.


----------



## Nice one (Aug 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Some suggestion Millwall fans were involved in this. Makes sense.



clothing and attire an interesting factor if you watch the video footage. I genuiney don't know how "fascists" dress when going out for a ruck these days but..


----------



## Nice one (Aug 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> That clubs have factions of competing ultras with different political agendas.



hmm okay, if you're saying that the problem of the ultras is no longer an issue, but really if you look as barca and real madrid recent past that's not really true.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

Nice one said:


> hmm okay, if you're saying that the problem of the ultras is no longer an issue, but really if you look as barca and real madrid recent past that's not really true.



I'm not saying anything like that. I'm just saying that most Spanish clubs have one set of ultras and clubs are usually associated with one political philosophy. Ultras are currently banned here anyway after Atlético fans killed a Depor fan last season.

I don't know what you mean specifically with reference to Madrid and Barça. Ultra Sur and Boixos Noi were dicks. That's true.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> I'm not saying anything like that. I'm just saying that most Spanish clubs have one set of ultras and clubs are usually associated with one political philosophy. Ultras are currently banned here anyway after Atlético fans killed a Depor fan last season. oixos Noi were dicks. That's true.


does this hold true for spanish non-league sides?


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> does this hold true for spanish non-league sides?



Britain is amazing in that it has a giant non-league culture. Nothing remotely like that here.


----------



## xslavearcx (Aug 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Britain is amazing in that it has a giant non-league culture. Nothing remotely like that here.


Scottish football is even better cause it's all non league here pretty much


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

My Grandad going to watch Rushall Olympic or Blackpool Mechanics on his own in piss-wet weather and coming back having loved it. Got to admire that part of football back home.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

I have heard that Charlton and millwall got together  because they had heard that Clapton were getting together a group for the match.

To be honest by that footage the cu done really "well" and at least held their own. Could easily have scattered to the winds.

That is well in fv terms. By any normal terms it might be bad news for the small cu. Its okay when dealing with mobs of fifty, its when 700 turn up the real problems start. Its not a game any small bunch of fans want to play, ime (which is fairly vast though wouldn't go near any of it now). A small part of me does def admire the cu for what the done in that vid, a bigger part of me says anyone fighting at football should get a life.


----------



## cesare (Aug 8, 2015)

I was a bit surprised to hear of the Millwall flag in Thamesmead  but times move on and Charlton bother more about Crystal Palace nowadays by all accounts


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## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

Millwalls firms over they years have been massively multicultural.  100s of bermondsey and okr based Turks, black chaps from all over se London, one of the biggest faces in millwalls history was a black guy called tiny. Sadly there has also been racist pricks here and there but they are never dominant in millwalls ranks. If you grew up on a bermo or rothehithe council estate you're in.  Cant listen to any millwall equal fash nonsense.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

Just pu





cesare said:


> I was a bit surprised to hear of the Millwall flag in Thamesmead  but times move on and Charlton bother more about Crystal Palace nowadays by all accounts [/QUOTE
> 
> Nuff millwall all around those areas. If any big firm was due in town likely Charlton and wall might come together. Was it a 100% facist turn out? Or was it a fv thing?


----------



## cesare (Aug 8, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> Millwalls firms over they years have been massively multicultural.  100s of bermondsey and okr based Turks, black chaps from all over se London, one of the biggest faces in millwalls history was a black guy called tiny. Sadly there has also been racist pricks here and there but they are never dominant in millwalls ranks. If you grew up on a bermo or rothehithe council estate you're in.  Cant listen to any millwall equal fash nonsense.



I wasn't saying Millwall = fash. I was saying back in the day Millwall v Charlton and Thamesmead right in Charlton territory. I'm from Thamesmead myself and my folks still there so I'm not completely out of touch, so it was a comment about "blimey, times have changed for Millwall flag to be there" rather than Millwall = fash ffs


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

I didn't say you were! I am just naturally defensive of millwall


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

Lets hope they find them and ban them for life.


----------



## cesare (Aug 8, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> I didn't say you were! I am just naturally defensive of millwall


 You're in good company on urban, lots of anti fascist posters here defensive of Millwall. I wasn't criticising them, I was just surprised.

Tbf though, I grew up thinking Millwall = trouble. I'm not saying that's fair, it's just how it was.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> I didn't say you were! I am just naturally defensive of millwall



The only time I went to the Den was in 2004. I heard very loud monkey chants coming from 100s of fans aimed at Salif Diao and Florent Sinama Pongalle. It seems unlikely that there were less than 1000 people making them - possibly many more.

It's just one game but I remember it very clearly and don't really wash with this "Millwall do flower-arranging/youth-work" stuff.

You're obviously a massive fan but I'm not making up what I experienced.


----------



## cesare (Aug 8, 2015)

Millwall have become a lot more touchy-feely since they came south of the river.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> You're in good company on urban, lots of anti fascist posters here defensive of Millwall. I wasn't criticising them, I was just surprised.
> 
> Tbf though, I grew up thinking Millwall = trouble. I'm not saying that's fair, it's just how it was.



They used to board up all of the shops in London Bridge Station following Millwall games at one point. I suspect they weren't over reacting.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 8, 2015)

ICF had their own notoriety well deserved back in the day too. Fighting at football comes with some pretty stiff sentences now so everyone is either dead, old and don't want it (except the wealdstone raider, he'll give it to ya), or in jail/banned from coming to the grounds of their chosen fight symbol


----------



## cesare (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> They used to board up all of the shops in London Bridge Station following Millwall games at one point. I suspect they weren't over reacting.


Yeah I guess there was a big north of the river fanbase, but it's a south London club, I s'pose it's a historic thing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> Millwall have become a lot more touchy-feely since they came south of the river.


yeh, i saw that at upton park a few years back


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> Yeah I guess there was a big north of the river fanbase, but it's a south London club, I s'pose it's a historic thing.



I thought they were originally from the isle of dogs? My football knowledge is below shit though, tbf.


----------



## cesare (Aug 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh, i saw that at upton park a few years back


I think the clubs were tapping into the *we want to go to the game not a battleground, you're all a bunch of cunts* audience.


----------



## cesare (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I thought they were originally from the isle of dogs? My football knowledge is below shit though, tbf.


Originally they were hence the name, but proper back in the dim and distant (but still held against them  JUST JOKING)


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 8, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> Have you considered for one moment you may not know what actually went on by reading Urban? And that take what's posted here with the context and biases that are plainly obvious combined with plenty that is left unsaid?



Have you considered for one minute that urban isn't isn't my sole or even primary source of info as to what happened ? For example , a very close relative of mine has stayed overnight in the home of one of the people who was attacked by these wankers . Celtic fans and militant trade unionists have contacts and networks all over the place . These events have been shared and discussed well outside the confines of this website .


----------



## cesare (Aug 8, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Have you considered for one minute that urban isn't isn't my sole or even primary source of info as to what happened ? For example , a very close relative of mine has stayed overnight in the home of one of the people who was attacked by these wankers . Celtic fans and militant trade unionists have contacts and networks all over the place . These events have been shared and discussed well outside the confines of this website .


You complete and utter bastard. Shattered my illusions that you're the font of all knowledge


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 8, 2015)

chilango said:


> One small, but imo important, point.
> 
> *A physical defence of the Clapton Ultras need not equal a political defence of the Clapton Ultras.*
> 
> There's plenty of precedent for this kind of position.



How can people turn up at their games to show solidarity when it's been made clear they're prepared to physically attack en masse and personally demonise any leftist they unilaterally take the hump with on the most spurious of context ? 

That's unprecedented in my opinion . And that's before the touting even happened .

Fuck em . Let them call the cops if they feel threatened .


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

cesare said:


> Originally they were hence the name, but proper back in the dim and distant (but still held against them  JUST JOKING)



I lived on the isle of dogs in '98. Full of city boys and racist wankers.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 8, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> I have heard that Charlton and millwall got together  because they had heard that Clapton were getting together a group for the match.
> 
> To be honest by that footage the cu done really "well" and at least held their own. Could easily have scattered to the winds.
> 
> That is well in fv terms. By any normal terms it might be bad news for the small cu. Its okay when dealing with mobs of fifty, its when 700 turn up the real problems start. Its not a game any small bunch of fans want to play, ime (which is fairly vast though wouldn't go near any of it now). A small part of me does def admire the cu for what the done in that vid, a bigger part of me says anyone fighting at football should get a life.



"  IME - which is fairly vast"   - LOLZ

Joker .


----------



## cesare (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I lived on the isle of dogs in '98. Full of city boys and racist wankers.


I remember it back in the early 80s, proper desolate.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

cantsin said:


> "  IME - which is fairly vast"   - LOLZ
> 
> Joker .


Wanker!

Go and have a poo.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 8, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> Wanker!
> 
> Go and have a poo.



ha ha , pwoppa, Harry the Dog wld be proud


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> Wanker!
> 
> Go and have a poo.



You're on fire tonight.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I thought they were originally from the isle of dogs? My football knowledge is below shit though, tbf.



They are, but nobody really knows it here (within Tower Hamlets, isle of Dogs included). You tell the Arsenal fans here that its a South London originated team they think youre talking bollocks anyway.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 8, 2015)

Nice one said:


> clothing and attire an interesting factor if you watch the video footage. I genuiney don't know how "fascists" dress when going out for a ruck these days but..



There's a few basic variations - most of the EDL and the various splinter groups look a bit casual - pretty much normal bloke in the street stuff. That's what they look like in this video.In the last eighteen months or so we've seen a resurgence in the full blown comedy nazi skinhead look, braces, bomber jackets and DMs at now above ground White Pride events. Meanwhile National Action are encouraging everyone to go blackblock for their upcoming "Death to Communism" White Man March in Liverpool next Saturday.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> They are, but nobody really knows it here (within Tower Hamlets, isle of Dogs included). You tell the Arsenal fans here that its a South London originated team they think youre talking bollocks anyway.


There are still a fair few millwall fans on the isle of dogs. They used to run coaches from the island even through the nineties. Could even be descendant from the original grounds supporters.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> They are, but nobody really knows it here (within Tower Hamlets, isle of Dogs included). You tell the Arsenal fans here that its a South London originated team they think youre talking bollocks anyway.



It's named after that tube station near Finsbury Park.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 8, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Have you considered for one minute that urban isn't isn't my sole or even primary source of info as to what happened ? For example , a very close relative of mine has stayed overnight in the home of one of the people who was attacked by these wankers . Celtic fans and militant trade unionists have contacts and networks all over the place . These events have been shared and discussed well outside the confines of this website .



So you know someone, who knows someone that was there. That would really stand up in court.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

I think everyone on Urban knows someone who knows someone that was there.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I think everyone on Urban knows someone who knows someone that was there.



My nan does ffs.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I think everyone on Urban knows someone who knows someone that was there.



I know someone from Urban that knows someone who knows someone that was there


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

I know someone who wasn't there.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> I know someone who wasn't there.



What is the point of you.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

poptyping said:


> What is the point of you.


To take my wife to Sealife centre in Portsmouth.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> To take my wife to Sealife centre in Portsmouth.



Why not Hunstanton. That's the best one. Your wife has been shortchanged.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 8, 2015)

Never heard of it.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 8, 2015)

Blackpool Sealife Centre opened in 1994. They spent loads of money advertising a killer octopus the year after and had people in octopus costumes walking up and down the prom handing out flyers saying "DEADLY OCTOPUS". They didn't tell the public it was only about 6 inches long though.

It died after 3 months.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 8, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Blackpool Sealife Centre opened in 1994. They spent loads of money advertising a killer octopus the year after and had people in octopus costumes walking up and down the prom handing out flyers saying "DEADLY OCTOPUS". They didn't tell the public it was only about 6 inches long though.
> 
> It died after 3 months.



So many things went wrong in 1994


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> Never heard of it.



Sunny Hunny. Miserable place and the sea is brown. That's how shit it is.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 9, 2015)

Fuck 'em


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> So you know someone, who knows someone that was there. That would really stand up in court.



Well as I'm not the leftist they touted on I'm unlikely to end up in court over it .

I'm related to someone who's friends with a left wing activist who was physically attacked by the Clapton ultras . That person wasn't merely " there " . He was attacked by the Clapton ultras . And I've seen the footage as well . No doubt it happened . And I've read the Clapton ultras statement which justified the entire disgrace .

So fuck em .


----------



## LiamO (Aug 9, 2015)

fuck 'em


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Well as I'm not the leftist they touted on I'm unlikely to end up in court over it .
> 
> I'm related to someone who's friends with a left wing activist who was physically attacked by the Clapton ultras . That person wasn't merely " there " . He was attacked by the Clapton ultras . And I've seen the footage as well . No doubt it happened . And I've read the Clapton ultras statement which justified the entire disgrace .
> 
> So fuck em .



Give up.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

Nah.

Fuck em


----------



## chilango (Aug 9, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> How can people turn up at their games to show solidarity when it's been made clear they're prepared to physically attack en masse and personally demonise any leftist they unilaterally take the hump with on the most spurious of context ?
> 
> That's unprecedented in my opinion . And that's before the touting even happened .
> 
> Fuck em . Let them call the cops if they feel threatened .



You don't have to turn up at the game. 

In theory, it could probably be done without CU even knowing. For obvious reasons I won't go into details, but it shouldn't require too much imagination to envisage.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

poptyping said:


> So many things went wrong in 1994


how did clapton fare?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> how did clapton fare?



You're asking the wrong person.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Tons isn't a board regular they probably didn't know weepiper is a woman tbf


mind you the (brilliant) 'feminist as fuck' logo may have indicated so/


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> mind you the (brilliant) 'feminist as fuck' logo may have indicated so/


only to someone with a full complement of wits


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> ICF had their own notoriety well deserved back in the day too. Fighting at football comes with some pretty stiff sentences now so everyone is either dead, old and don't want it (except the wealdstone raider, he'll give it to ya), or in jail/banned from coming to the grounds of their chosen fight symbol



which is why the EDL exploded cos a large 'hooligan' element realsied there could be a ruck (with plod, opposition or muslims) without the drastic sentencing. altho that changed a wee bit with the walsall sentencing which saw a large slab of time dished out.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> There's a few basic variations - most of the EDL and the various splinter groups look a bit casual - pretty much normal bloke in the street stuff. That's what they look like in this video.In the last eighteen months or so we've seen a resurgence in the full blown comedy nazi skinhead look, braces, bomber jackets and DMs at now above ground White Pride events. Meanwhile National Action are encouraging everyone to go blackblock for their upcoming "Death to Communism" White Man March in Liverpool next Saturday.



yeah some of the ageing skins have brought back the camo's and army boots on demos and ive seen quite a few others in skinhead-ish 'street wear.'  i still wear skinhead stuff but its proper perrys/shermans, sta-prest, crombie, loafers not the bonehad look at all. and i hate that casual stuff. oh, can i nominate big monaer's "go and have a poo" as retort of the thread please? i am nicking that.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> ICF had their own notoriety well deserved back in the day too. Fighting at football comes with some pretty stiff sentences now so everyone is either dead, old and don't want it (except the wealdstone raider, he'll give it to ya), or in jail/banned from coming to the grounds of their chosen fight symbol



I worked with someone formerly in the ICF. He was a born again Christian. Perhaps he had plenty of skeletons that needed sorting in that closet.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> mind you the (brilliant) 'feminist as fuck' logo may have indicated so/



Yeah I suppose if you think only women are feminists


----------



## treelover (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> There's a few basic variations - most of the EDL and the various splinter groups look a bit casual - pretty much normal bloke in the street stuff. That's what they look like in this video.In the last eighteen months or so we've seen a resurgence in the full blown comedy nazi skinhead look, braces, bomber jackets and DMs at now above ground White Pride events. Meanwhile National Action are encouraging everyone to go blackblock *for their upcoming "Death to Communism" *White Man March in Liverpool next Saturday.




Death to communism?, where, here, Russia? China, North Korea?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

treelover said:


> Death to communism?, where, here, Russia? China, North Korea?


you do know the ussr ceased to exist more than 20 years ago? perhaps you should pay more attention to current events.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

It's to antagonise lefties I think.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Yeah I suppose if you think only women are feminists



I was always distinctly queasy with blokes saying 'i am a feminist' as opposed to saying you support feminism.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> I was always distinctly queasy with blokes saying 'i am a feminist' as opposed to saying you support feminism.



Me too.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> I was always distinctly queasy with blokes saying 'i am a feminist' as opposed to saying you support feminism.



The icon doesn't say "I'm a feminist" though does it.

Out of interest does the same go for white people who say they are anti racism?


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 9, 2015)

I often dont trust men who make a big show of how much they support women's rights and are feminists. It seems like they are just trying too hard and also they often use it to try and dictate how feminism should be.

Fine to say you support feminism tho.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

poptyping, i dont have a definitive answer. i just dont say it meself. i define myself as an antifascist as opposed to antiracist which is implicit anyway. i also never carry placards or shout 'narzi scum' and walk alongside demos.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> poptyping, i dont have a definitive answer. i just dont say it meself. i define myself as an antifascist as opposed to antiracist which is implicit anyway. i also never carry placards or shout 'narzi scum' and walk alongside demos.



Fair play. And agree with what froggy said too...

I do wonder tho why there aren't more visible antifash poc... like at counter demos we are few and far between


----------



## Ole (Aug 9, 2015)

poptyping said:


> The icon doesn't say "I'm a feminist" though does it.
> 
> Out of interest does the same go for white people who say they are anti racism?



That's not a good analogy. I would say the term adjacent to 'anti-racist' is 'anti-sexist', not 'feminist'.

A bloke with a 'feminist as fuck' icon, is to my mind a bit like a white person with a 'black power' icon. Both would be weird, and in my opinion, even inappropriate.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

if i had a t-shirt with that logo, much as i think it is brilliant, i wouldnt wear it outdoors.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 9, 2015)

I'm waiting for the French Connection version to come out.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> i also never carry placards or shout 'narzi scum' and walk alongside demos.



Really? I thought you were primarily a blogger.


----------



## JTG (Aug 9, 2015)

re: Millwall - I've been there loads of times as an away fan. Fucking pussycats and never once seen any trouble or heard anything dodge. It's all theatrics anyway. Every 'Wall fan I've ever known has been sound as.

Lost count of the number of times I've said this on here in response to lazy liberal stereotyping. I've heard more outright racism in the fens than in Bermondsey on a match day


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 9, 2015)

JTG said:


> I've heard more outright racism in the fens than in Bermondsey on a match day



Well that's fucking Hugeounots for you.


----------



## JTG (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Well that's fucking Hugeounots for you.


Wisbech - Barry Hayles got the full monkey chants and bananas treatment that day. About, what, 1997.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

T


Tons said:


> See the Politician and his chums are sticking with this Clapton Ultras are grasses tune eventhough they know full well that these people were not connected to CU. But just spreading lies to discredit us as much as they can.
> The politician was asked not to come to the scaffold and he did. Him and his fanboys were abusive to the female supporters and caused shitloads of grief. Sad that the Celtic fans that knew nothing about it got caught up in it. The politician being the politician got what we wanted, a firm wedge between the two groups.


You fucking disingenuous cunt.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> I was always distinctly queasy with blokes saying 'i am a feminist' as opposed to saying you support feminism.



Feminist men are generally anarchists. As it actually attempts to deal with feminist issues also.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 9, 2015)

Generally?


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I have cognitive dissonance on this matter. I could turn up to support the ultras but run the risk of being attacked by fash and the ultras themselves.



This.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Some suggestion Millwall fans were involved in this. Makes sense.


Fuck off.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> Millwalls firms over they years have been massively multicultural.  100s of bermondsey and okr based Turks, black chaps from all over se London, one of the biggest faces in millwalls history was a black guy called tiny. Sadly there has also been racist pricks here and there but they are never dominant in millwalls ranks. If you grew up on a bermo or rothehithe council estate you're in.  Cant listen to any millwall equal fash nonsense.


I remember the main firm having  a black geez, Lez I think back in the early nineties. Boxer he was. Very hard man, funny as fuck n


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

Fu


Favelado said:


> The only time I went to the Den was in 2004. I heard very loud monkey chants coming from 100s of fans aimed at Salif Diao and Florent Sinama Pongalle. It seems unlikely that there were less than 1000 people making them - possibly many more.
> 
> It's just one game but I remember it very clearly and don't really wash with this "Millwall do flower-arranging/youth-work" stuff.
> 
> You're obviously a massive fan but I'm not making up what I experienced.


Fuck off liar


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Feminist men are generally anarchists.



I initially read this as 



Citizen66 said:


> Feminist men are generally architects.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Really? I thought you were primarily a blogger.



what?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

yes anarchist feminists are architects, building all inclusive unisex castles in the air where gender is never an issue and all the ladies are as scruffy as the blokes.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 9, 2015)

TopCat said:


> Fu
> 
> Fuck off liar



Don't call me a liar and don't tell me to fuck off when I'm telling the truth. I was there, it happened and it was a fucking horrible night - for a number of reasons - not just the monkey chants. You might not like it but it's true. It was mainly from the stand to the right of where the away fans are if that makes sense.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 9, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> Give up.



Fuck you?


----------



## Favelado (Aug 9, 2015)

JTG said:


> re: Millwall - I've been there loads of times as an away fan. Fucking pussycats and never once seen any trouble or heard anything dodge. It's all theatrics anyway. Every 'Wall fan I've ever known has been sound as.
> 
> Lost count of the number of times I've said this on here in response to lazy liberal stereotyping. I've heard more outright racism in the fens than in Bermondsey on a match day



Well, I'm just saying I went once and it was the fucking full range of monkey chants, "You should've all died at Hillsborough", "You'll never make the station" amongst other gems.

It's all very well shouting liar at people or denying it, but if it's happened it's happened.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

TopCat said:


> T
> 
> You fucking disingenuous cunt.



The disingenuous little cunt has been spreading precisely that type of shit all over the Internet for quite a while now . That's precisely the type of vermin honest , decent people are being asked to risk jail time for in defending . Cunts who wouldn't want you in their ground to begin with . Or anywhere else for that matter .


----------



## JTG (Aug 9, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Well, I'm just saying I went once and it was the fucking full range of monkey chants, "You should've all died at Hillsborough", "You'll never make the station" amongst other gems.
> 
> It's all very well shouting liar at people or denying it, but if it's happened it's happened.


So, you went once to a game where all the big game fans are out with a target to aim at.

I've been several times, to middling league games with my middling team seeing us win, lose and draw at The Den.

Which do you suppose might be a more representative sample of normality at Millwall? I've been when we mugged them in the last minute, we were laughing all over South Bermondsey station with barely a peep out of the 'Wall fans.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 9, 2015)

JTG said:


> So, you went once to a game where all the big game fans are out with a target to aim at.
> 
> I've been several times, to middling league games with my middling team seeing us win, lose and draw at The Den.
> 
> Which do you suppose might be a more representative sample of normality at Millwall? I've been when we mugged them in the last minute, we were laughing all over South Bermondsey station with barely a peep out of the 'Wall fans.



It's not much of a defence is it? "We only do monkey chants at big games"


----------



## JTG (Aug 9, 2015)

Favelado said:


> It's not much of a defence is it? "We only do monkey chants at big games"


You understand that it's not necessarily the same ones who turn out for less high profile ones, right? I've never heard a monkey chant there.

Makes me think that their image means every idiot in London turns out for games like that. It's certainly not a basis for the kind of hysterical tripe you've been peddling on here for ages - didn't you call for them to be forcibly closed down once? Fucking ridiculous.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

I wish you hadn't made the station.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 9, 2015)

JTG said:


> You understand that it's not necessarily the same ones who turn out for less high profile ones, right? I've never heard a monkey chant there.
> 
> Makes me think that their image means every idiot in London turns out for games like that. It's certainly not a basis for the kind of hysterical tripe you've been peddling on here for ages - didn't you call for them to be forcibly closed down once? Fucking ridiculous.



It was hundreds and hundreds of people. I wish Millwall didn't exist, yeah.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 9, 2015)

TopCat said:


> I wish you hadn't made the station.



That's a bit much.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 9, 2015)

TopCat said:


> I wish you hadn't made the station.



So I'm a liar and you wish me dead because I went to the football.


----------



## xslavearcx (Aug 9, 2015)

Tbf a lot of teams have had to deal with racist chants from their supporters and they've been challenged either within the support base or from the club/authorities with varying degrees of success ...

For what it's worth - my cousin and auntie  are millwall  supporters from Peckham (long since moved) and them and the people I've met through them have sound politics ...


----------



## Favelado (Aug 9, 2015)

Anyway. Clapton. Clear where I stand re Millwall and where others stand.

Apologies for derail.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

Favelado said:


> So I'm a liar and you wish me dead because I went to the football.


Come down to Wall and tell us we are racists. Throw you in the fucking Thames.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

poptyping said:


> That's a bit much.


He's lied about the monkey chanting. Used a long uttered chant to somehow strengthen the weak as piss case.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2015)

JTG said:


> Lost count of the number of times I've said this on here in response to lazy liberal stereotyping. I've heard more outright racism in the fens than in Bermondsey on a match day



Yep, I believe John Barnes said the most racist place he ever played was Wisbech. 

It once had the highest crime rate per person in the country.

Ah, the countryside.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

The politics all seems to be falling down on the side of me not going to the spotted dog. I feel I should, but haven't the guts to do it without the support of those shaking their heads. I'm still a bit conflicted about it tbh. Why can't the Ultras just make amends by doing the right fucking thing?


----------



## Favelado (Aug 9, 2015)

TopCat said:


> He's lied about the monkey chanting. Used a long uttered chant to somehow strengthen the weak as piss case.



Right fuck off. I didn't lie. That's a cunt's trick to call me a liar when I was there and I heard it. It was hundreds of people, in the stand to the right of the away fans. How dare you try and just block it out like that. It was disgusting.

I won't post again in this thread, but let me make it quite clear that I was there when hundred and hundreds of Millwall fans made monkey sounds at black Liverpool players. A stone - cold - fact.

Get stuffed Top Cat.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

Favelado said:


> It was hundreds and hundreds of people. I wish Millwall didn't exist, yeah.


So much better eh if they were replaced  by nice middle class types eh?


----------



## LiamO (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Why can't the Ultras just make amends by doing the right fucking thing?



Cos they're cunts.


Fuck 'em.


----------



## cesare (Aug 9, 2015)

Was the monkey chants/sieg heils the incident that the reporter subsequently withdrew his allegations about? 

http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/Press_Coverage5.htm


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

Millwall are pretty hardcore in their chants - no one likes us, we don't care - but I don't know of any evidence of organised fascism in the ground, unlike Chelsea.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2015)

cesare said:


> Was the monkey chants/sieg heils the incident that the reporter subsequently withdrew his allegations about?
> 
> http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/Press_Coverage5.htm


I reckon so. That's where he stole the lay stereotype From.


----------



## Athos (Aug 9, 2015)

I've seen my team play Milwall home and away (Old and New Den), a number of times.  The atmosphere has frequently been aggressive, and occasionally, there's been violence.  But, in fairness to them (and, believe me there's no love lost), I've never heard any mass racist chanting.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 9, 2015)

TopCat said:


> Come down to Wall and tell us we are racists. Throw you in the fucking Thames.


Fact.I think you should perhaps investigate millwall and the subject of race a bit more rather than base it on one game (bit like racists do when summing up minorities behaviour based on a few).


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Millwall are pretty hardcore in their chants - no one likes us, we don't care - but I don't know of any evidence of organised fascism in the ground, unlike Chelsea.


There is none. Zero. Most wall fans live in far more multi cultural areas than the liberals and sneerers who want the club closed down.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

TopCat said:


> I wish you hadn't made the station.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Generally?



I did fail English at school.  Let's reword this:

Why bother being a 'feminist male' when anarchism deals with most of these issues?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> The politics all seems to be falling down on the side of me not going to the spotted dog. I feel I should, but haven't the guts to do it without the support of those shaking their heads. I'm still a bit conflicted about it tbh. Why can't the Ultras just make amends by doing the right fucking thing?


stuck in the middle with you - stealers wheel


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> There is none. Zero. Most wall fans live in far more multi cultural areas than the liberals and sneerers who want the club closed down.



Which doesn't include me.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> stuck in the middle with you - stealers wheel





Why did I think it was the James Miller Band?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Why did I think it was the James Miller Band?



loads of covers maybe


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

Bob Crow famously a Millwall fan. To cater for his fascist tendencies.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Bob Crow famously a Millwall fan. To cater for his fascist tendencies.


what, follow your leader - represent the tube drivers?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what, follow your leader - represent the tube drivers?



IIRC one obituary put 'nobody like us, we don't care' in there linking his pubic role to his football support.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> IIRC one obituary put 'nobody like us, we don't care' in there linking his pubic role to his football support.


----------



## cesare (Aug 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


>


Give him his missing l


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

cesare said:


> Give him his missing l



's', shirley?


----------



## Joe Reilly (Aug 9, 2015)

Tons said:


> Again personally, I really dont give a shit about people talking to police about fash, wouldnt do it myself but understand why people want them off the street.


If they're talking to police whose to know who they're talking about and who they want off the street?


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 9, 2015)

Millwall fans are racists n fascist? They sieg heil and monkey chant their hearts out for the lads eh Favelado?

That's news to me, seeing as at several games at The Den last season, I as a fully observant Sikh (that means turban, the works) never once experienced racism or anything that approached it. I did experience shit football though.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> The politics all seems to be falling down on the side of me not going to the spotted dog. I feel I should, but haven't the guts to do it without the support of those shaking their heads. I'm still a bit conflicted about it tbh. Why can't the Ultras just make amends by doing the right fucking thing?



Strikes me that they're simply incapable of it . They can't do the right thing because they did a very , very wrong thing . And worse very publicly stood over it . Self righteously and smugly . They are incapable of making amends because they can't even see what was wrong with their actions in the first place. They regard it as an actual victory instead of a disgraceful clusterfuck that has disgusted leftists all over the place  . And from what I can make out that's the biggest inhibitor at work here .
They've plotted a course and firmly stuck to it regardless of any voice of common sense pointing out the likely repercussions . They opted to sneer at that rather than take it on board . What's happening now was perfectly foreseeable , it was pointed out by numerous people . They chose not to listen and carry on in their own self righteous manner .

Such is life . Fuck them .


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Strikes me that they're simply incapable of it . They can't do the right thing because they did a very , very wrong thing . And worse very publicly stood over it . Self righteously and smugly . They are incapable of making amends because they can't even see what was wrong with their actions in the first place. They regard it as an actual victory instead of a disgraceful clusterfuck that has disgusted leftists all over the place  . And from what I can make out that's the biggest inhibitor at work here .
> They've plotted a course and firmly stuck to it regardless of any voice of common sense pointing out the likely repercussions . They opted to sneer at that rather than take it on board . What's happening now was perfectly foreseeable , it was pointed out by numerous people . They chose not to listen and carry on in their own self righteous manner .
> 
> Such is life . Fuck them .



I agree that your assessment is probably right, I just feel uncomfortable celebrating that fact.


----------



## cesare (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> 's', shirley?


I'm not as concerned about the likeS as I  am about the PUBIC. PUBIC not public. Accept that missing l.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

cesare said:


> I'm not as concerned about the likeS as I  am about the PUBIC. PUBIC not public. Accept that missing l.



I completely missed that!


----------



## cesare (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I completely missed that!


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

Tons said:


> See the Politician and his chums are sticking with this Clapton Ultras are grasses tune eventhough they know full well that these people were not connected to CU. But just spreading lies to discredit us as much as they can.
> The politician was asked not to come to the scaffold and he did. Him and his fanboys were abusive to the female supporters and caused shitloads of grief. Sad that the Celtic fans that knew nothing about it got caught up in it. The politician being the politician got what we wanted, a firm wedge between the two groups.



You discredited yourselves with your shameful antics . This snide horseshit  you've posted here , and all over the fuckinginternet for months on end, only compounds it . Enough credible people were on the receiving end of what you lot did to ensure the truth was told . It was also caught on tape , and we've all seen it . It was disgusting , an absolute disgrace . You are now infamous . A toxic brand . And that's why many people who's instincts have always been to weigh in regardless will most likely turn their backs on you lot. Even with a heavy heart .

You created this wedge purely by yourselves . You lot and you lot alone created it .Blaming SH for the consequences of your own actions is pathetic . You had a kangaroo court and a public witch hunt and not one fuck did you give about the consequences . Because you thought there'd be none for you lot . That you can't even remotely comprehend how much that disgusts people outside of your own bubble is at the root of your major fucking problem . Your inability even at this stage to take ownership of the wedge you lot consciously and deliberately crafted when you decided to publicly try and convict someone on the most spurious of grounds . That's what is making good people recoil from you .this is unprecedented ..and yet still you insist on blaming your victims for your own absolutely massive fuck up that you're totally incapable of climbing down from .

Basically your posts just prove my points .


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I agree that your assessment is probably right, I just feel uncomfortable celebrating that fact.



He hasn't got a clue. He's seeking a political position to suit his own ends.

My nan doesn't see it that way and she's got better left wing credentials than CR could dream of.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what, follow your leader - represent the tube drivers?



That'd make him the only fascist leader in history whose supporters adore him for making sure the trains DON'T run on time .


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> He hasn't got a clue. He's seeking a political position to suit his own ends.
> 
> My nan doesn't see it that way and she's got better left wing credentials than CR could dream of.



What ends are these then ? Spell them out .

And Liam's while you're at it .


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2015)

TopCat said:


> Fuck off.



You don't think there were Millwall involved last week , or have I got the wrong end of the stick here ?


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> What ends are these then ? Spell them out .
> 
> And Liam's while you're at it .



I know personally people on both sides. The people making the biggest fuss are the fuckers the furthest away.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 9, 2015)

"You don't think they're were Millwall involved last week , or have I got the wrong end of the stick here ?"

Certainly some of those saying online that they were involved are also saying that they were Millwall. All of which could be utter bollocks. Maybe "Millwall" should put out some kind of official disassociation from them, in the same way that Clapton should.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> I know personally people on both sides. The people making the biggest fuss are the fuckers the furthest away.



Spell these fucking ends out...what are they ? Your just wittering on with the first nonsense comes out of your head .


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 9, 2015)

In any club there is gonna be right wing/racist scumbags. I've been in Millway end away before and didn't hear any racism, but not saying there ain't a few racist knobheads about.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Spell these fucking ends out...what are they ? Your just wittering on with the first nonsense comes out of your head .



This whole saga has been riddled with sectarianism and every last political gripe and paranoia, very little to do with what really happened.


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 9, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> This whole saga has been riddled with sectarianism and every last political gripe and paranoia, very little to do with what really happened.


Problem is Clapton Ultras are not apologizing and holding their hands up for the big f*ck up.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

cantsin said:


> You don't think there were Millwall involved last week , or have I got the wrong end of the stick here ?



Did you tootle down from North Devon to witness it?


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> This whole saga has been riddled with sectarianism and every last political gripe and paranoia, very little to do with what really happened.



I'll ask you again...what are my particular ends...and presumably those of anyone who's consistently agreed with me here and said much the same thing themselves .

If you fail to back it up by spelling it out I'll just assume your seeking to defend that shitty behaviour by smearing someone who is appalled by it . Which seems to be pretty standard for most stuff CU related . No matter what dirt you want to throw my way I'm far from the only one who's made their mind up on this one . You'll need a pretty wide brush to smear us all .

As wide as " SH set out to create this wedge " for example .


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2015)

westcoast1 said:


> Problem is Clapton Ultras are not apologizing and holding their hands up for the big f*ck up.



The problem is the grass. 

The punch up was fuck all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Did you tootle down from North Devon to witness it?


he motored up to town for the day


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

this is typical of the rowdiness and brouhaha that soccer team likers create! there were none of this silliness at the local cricket 3rd team match today against fulchester.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> The problem is the grass.
> 
> The punch up was fuck all.



No it's not just the grass. Enough people have pointed that out already . The attack that preceded the grassing has disgusted people as well. That and the lies told to justify it .

People aren't expressing incredulity because they won't climb down from grassing . A lad was grassed on because he had to defend himself from a large group who attacked him and drove him from the ground . That's not fuck all by any means .


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> this is typical of the rowdiness and brouhaha that soccer team likers create! there were none of this silliness at the local cricket 3rd team match today against fulchester.


Though to be fair Fulchester are a bunch of preening cunts


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

well us here in auchenshoogle showed those fulchester teeny-boppers how to play a man's game!


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Did you tootle down from North Devon to witness it?



No, but from ITK sources hear  there were Millwall involved ( wld have been v surprised if there weren't down there  ) - doubt very much they were involved in the nigger changing , but tbf not many were, and those that were aren't flavour of the day amongst any interested parties .


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> No it's not just the grass. Enough people have pointed that out already . The attack that preceded the grassing has disgusted people as well. That and the lies told to justify it .
> 
> People aren't expressing incredulity because they won't climb down from grassing . A lad was grassed on because he had to defend himself from a large group who attacked him and drove him from the ground . That's not fuck all by any means .



You're stirring shit where there's been plenty stirred. You're trying to be in with the big boys and you look a bit of a plonker.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 9, 2015)

cantsin said:


> No, but from ITK sources hear  there were Millwall involved ( wld have been v surprised if there weren't down there  ) - doubt very much they were involved in the nigger changing , but tbf not many were, and those that were aren't flavour of the day amongst any interested parties .



So we can let "Millwall" off for running with a bunch of fash, who shout "we hate niggers" etc etc and even a bit of inadvertant monkey chanting they may have done themselves in the past 'cos you can't really expect them to be responsible for the actions of everyone under the banner. Clapton Ultras on the other hand may have attended the same game as someone who made a statement to the police - so they can all "fuck off" for all eternity. Hmmm


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> So we can let "Millwall" off for running with a bunch of fash, who shout "we hate niggers" etc etc and even a bit of inadvertant monkey chanting they may have done themselves in the past 'cos you can't really expect them to be responsible for the actions of everyone under the banner. Clapton Ultras on the other hand may have attended the same game as someone who made a statement to the police - so they can all "fuck off" for all eternity. Hmmm


are you honestly saying there's any question that cu were present at the game where the cowdenbeath celts were assaulted?


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> You're stirring shit where there's been plenty stirred. You're trying to be in with the big boys and you look a bit of a plonker.



Right so..as I fully anticipated its just more personalised attacks down to you taking the hump.

I don't believe there's ever been a time on this website I've tried to be " in " with anyone at all . I'm not even sure who these big boys are supposed to be . But one things for sure you've done a piss poor job of explaining away why so many people are disgusted with these muppets , because it's far from just me no matter how you try and spin it .


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> So we can let "Millwall" off for running with a bunch of fash, who shout "we hate niggers" etc etc and even a bit of inadvertant monkey chanting they may have done themselves in the past 'cos you can't really expect them to be responsible for the actions of everyone under the banner. Clapton Ultras on the other hand may have attended the same game as someone who made a statement to the police - so they can all "fuck off" for all eternity. Hmmm



I'm not personally " letting off " Wall / Charlton / whoever ( they'll be gutted to hear ) , they launched an attack on a bunch of ( game ) ultras for no other reason than they were lefties, and attracted / ran with redneck nazi clowns into the bargain . Think they've embrassed themselves tbh . But know that n***ger / monkey stuff just doesn't really happen amongst London firms ( ex CFC) and hasn't for a cple of decades , too many black main faces for starters.

and am not convinced by  the wholesale tarnishing of CU for the actions of a few ( possibly not that involved with CU)   but can also see the argument for their collective responsibility in the face of the lack of clarification on their part .


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> are you honestly saying there's any question that cu were present at the game where the cowdenbeath celts were assaulted?


Red Sky


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> "You don't think they're were Millwall involved last week , or have I got the wrong end of the stick here ?"
> 
> Certainly some of those saying online that they were involved are also saying that they were Millwall. All of which could be utter bollocks. Maybe "Millwall" should put out some kind of official disassociation from them, in the same way that Clapton should.



thinks it's open secret Wall / Charlton involved


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> My football knowledge is below shit though, tbf.



 haven't let that stand in the way of getting involved in all these threads though eh


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> You're stirring shit where there's been plenty stirred. You're trying to be in with the big boys and you look a bit of a plonker.



Stirring the shit aside, where's your denouncement  of your mates attacking antifascists and having the brass neck to not give a fuck in hindsight?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

cantsin said:


> haven't let that stand in the way of getting involved in all these threads though eh



At least I'm in fucking London.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

cantsin said:


> haven't let that stand in the way of getting involved in all these threads though eh



I tell you what, I suggest you piss off. This is a big problem that shouldn't be crowed over from several counties away.


----------



## miktheword (Aug 9, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Millwall fans are racists n fascist? They sieg heil and monkey chant their hearts out for the lads eh Favelado?
> 
> That's news to me, seeing as at several games at The Den last season, I as a fully observant Sikh (that means turban, the works) never once experienced racism or anything that approached it. I did experience shit football though.








must agree ...about never experiencing racism there (even a single shouted remark) and about the shit football as well, endured jackett, lomas and a bit of holloway due to relative playing for them.

saw about 30 games, including ones that casual racists may turn up for - all west ham ones, the wigan semi, palace last game , charlton away, when wreath laid for the lad stabbed..never heard a thing.				 and I'm as neutral as a Tottenham fan can be with Millwall.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> are you honestly saying there's any question that cu were present at the game where the cowdenbeath celts were assaulted?


  Given that they put out a statement about it all that says they were there - that would be a daft position wouldn't it? Yes CU were there during the whole Sisters Uncut/SH fandango. Your point?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 9, 2015)

Well it's obviously great that certain Milwall "fans" are happy to engage in planned public violence on an entirely non-racist basis. Jesus fucking christ.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Given that they put out a statement about it all that says they were there - that would be a daft position wouldn't it? Yes CU were there during the whole Sisters Uncut/SH fandango. Your point?


i asked a simple question, based on your post. why'd you say they 'may' have been there: with the clear implication they 'may' not?

e2a: wouldn't be the first daft position to emerge from clapton. there was some unseemly wriggling after the sorry scrap there a few months back.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> At least I'm in fucking London.



lulz, that's alright then , knowing stuff about stuff's overrated anyways


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 9, 2015)

I like you Pickman's! The barristerial impostures are my favourite bit, although I also have a soft spot for the insanely single minded pedantry.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> I like you Pickman's! The barristerial impostures are my favourite bit, although I have a soft spot for the insanely single minded pedantry.


yeh. so where are you saying i've deceived you?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2015)

cantsin said:


> lulz, that's alright then , knowing stuff about stuff's overrated anyways



What does admitting to having limited knowledge about football have to do with the shitstorm of the Ultras attacking visiting antifascists? Did they perform specific moves and have a referee judging them on it? The football is irrelevant to me. And to anyone else wanting to know this from a politics pov.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> So we can let "Millwall" off for running with a bunch of fash, who shout "we hate niggers" etc etc and even a bit of inadvertant monkey chanting they may have done themselves in the past 'cos you can't really expect them to be responsible for the actions of everyone under the banner. Clapton Ultras on the other hand may have attended the same game as someone who made a statement to the police - so they can all "fuck off" for all eternity. Hmmm


Sorry but this is rubbish.

It's clearly utter bollocks to compare Clapton Ultras with Millwall fans. One is a semi-organised group that has a shared basis beyond their support for the team, the other consists of a huge range of people of diverse political opinions and whose main point of similarity is support for the same football team. To claim that they are analogous is at best stupid at worst dishonest.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Sorry but this is rubbish.
> 
> It's clearly utter bollocks to compare Clapton Ultras with Millwall fans. One is a semi-organised group that has a shared basis beyond their support for the team, the other consists of a huge range of people of diverse political opinions and whose main point of similarity is support for the same football team. To claim that they are analogous is at best stupid at worst dishonest.



the attack on CU was very much organised , and the " main
Point of similarity "between the participants  went well beyond football - how many were Wall or not no one knows .


----------



## LiamO (Aug 9, 2015)

Fuck 'em


----------



## BCBlues (Aug 10, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Millwall are pretty hardcore in their chants - no one likes us, we don't care - but I don't know of any evidence of organised fascism in the ground, unlike Chelsea.



Wheres your proof of "organised fascism in the ground" ?? 

Sounds like the shit that The Sun normally come up with.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 10, 2015)

I believe he is referring to days of yore rather than the present.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2015)

BCBlues said:


> Wheres your proof of "organised fascism in the ground" ??
> 
> Sounds like the shit that The Sun normally come up with.



Re: Chelsea ?

From the famous photo of Joe Pearce, chubby Henderson Seig heiling outside SB in early 80s,

http://hoffman.photoshelter.com/image/I0000lS5BpkW.XIg


 to c18 , Frain + Co , the nr murderous attack on Fraser Nelson / CISA mid 90s, etc etc - we really don't need too spend too long debating CFC + organised fascism, inside the ground or not ?

As for the little wankers on the Paris Metro earlier this yr, not organised , not in the ground, but  doing their bit to keep traditions  alive .


----------



## BCBlues (Aug 10, 2015)

cantsin said:


> Re: Chelsea ?
> 
> From the famous photo of Joe Pearce, chubby Henderson Seig heiling outside SB in early 80s, to c18 , Frain + Co , the nr murderous attack on Fraser Nelson / CISA mid 90s, etc etc - we really don't need go spend too long debating CFC + organised fascism, inside the ground or not do we ?
> 
> As for the little wankers on the Paris Metro earlier this yr, not organised , not in the ground, but  doing their bit to keep traditions  alive .



People like you help to perpetuate that image. We're not all like that trust me. Its just lazy generalisation.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2015)

BCBlues said:


> People like you help to perpetuate that image. We're not all like that trust me. Its just lazy generalisation.



It's the shitbags on the Paris Metro who  help perpetuate that image - and don't be a plum, no one anywhere had said you're all " like that " ffs, you asked for " proof of organised fascism " at Chelsea, you got it. 

( Not been going there long I'm guessing ? )


----------



## Becchio53 (Aug 10, 2015)




----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 10, 2015)

cantsin said:


> the attack on CU was very much organised , and the " main
> Point of similarity "between the participants  went well beyond football - how many were Wall or not no one knows .


Sorry, I'm confused about how this relates to my point. 

I've never made any claim about whether the attack on CU was organised or not. I'm simply pointing out that it's not inconsistent to hold CU to different standards than to all Millwall fans, the two groups aren't comparable.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 10, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> this is typical of the rowdiness and brouhaha that soccer team likers create! there were none of this silliness at the local cricket 3rd team match today against fulchester.


Soccer? What is that?


----------



## TopCat (Aug 10, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well it's obviously great that certain Milwall "fans" are happy to engage in planned public violence on an entirely non-racist basis. Jesus fucking christ.


I have not done so for years and years and years. Was more into rowing with the plod anyway. But if you follow Millwall much you will occasionally get attacked and then....


----------



## TopCat (Aug 10, 2015)

Clapton's reputation will follow them about. To be known for attacking people who came down to support you, who you totally outnumbered anyway but got run off, then known for grassing folk who stood up to your bullying, followed by lying statements and a ridiculous call to come see them on the scaffold, you could not make it up. They will have an interesting season.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 10, 2015)

Just read the Clapton statement. They call for those who oppose fascism to join them this season. You would have to have eyes in the back of your head.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> I like you Pickman's! The barristerial impostures are my favourite bit, although I also have a soft spot for the insanely single minded pedantry.


either you know what imposture means, in which case show me where i've lied, or you like the sound of the word but don't know what it means. which is it?


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 10, 2015)

I like to use big words on the internet because it makes me look photosynthesis.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> either you know what imposture means, in which case show me where i've lied, or you like the sound of the word but don't know what it means. which is it?



I was referring to your general air of acting like Queen's Counsel in a complicated fraud trial when you are in fact on an internet forum. An imposture.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> I was referring to your general air of acting like Queen's Counsel in a complicated fraud trial when you are in fact on an internet forum. An imposture.


i hate it when people use words they don't understand because then i have to post a definition:


to be an imposture then there must be intent to deceive - that is, there must be a lie. where is this lie?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

in future Red Sky why not use words you are familiar with so you don't say things you don't  mean.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 10, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> Soccer? What is that?



good question! what is it? (also can i thank you for making me laugh out loud with the retort 'go and have a poo?)


----------



## BCBlues (Aug 10, 2015)

cantsin said:


> It's the shitbags on the Paris Metro who  help perpetuate that image - and don't be a plum, no one anywhere had said you're all " like that " ffs, you asked for " proof of organised fascism " at Chelsea, you got it.
> 
> ( Not been going there long I'm guessing ? )



Nah i was a Liverpool follower until they went downhill so i switched to Man Utd and now its Chelsea 

And i asked for proof of "organised fascism in the ground", you make us sound like some neo nazi organisation.
You posted up a picture of a NF rally in South London pointing out one individual who couldnt make his mind up whether he was Fulham or Chelsea. You mentioned CISA whos very existence proves that there have always been elements of our support that will stand up against racism.
You then predictably bring up the Paris incident which was dealt with swiftly by the club and not many of our supporters would seriously condone such behaviour especially the newer fan base.
Im not naive enough to pretend theres never been any problems with what is a tiny proportion of our support, it just gets sensationalised a lot more when it involves Chelsea FC and its supporters.

The most recent shenanigans involving CU would have received much more mainstream media attention if Chelsea were involved.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 10, 2015)

There seems to be a lot of Clapton supporters who just don't get that what happened earlier in the Summer was just plain wrong. Hence they view any criticism as unwarranted and aggressive.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> good question! what is it? (also can i thank you for making me laugh out loud with the retort 'go and have a poo?)



May be add that to your ' Crivvens , crikey " routine for double added lolz ? You and Fakey Moaner could be quite the double act


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

BCBlues said:


> Nah i was a Liverpool follower until they went downhill so i switched to Man Utd and now its Chelsea


something of a gloryhunter from the sounds of things.


----------



## BCBlues (Aug 10, 2015)

Come on Pickman's model , rolly eyes, face palms. Get your thesaurus back out and look up 'sarcastic'.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2015)

I'm genuinely curious though.  These Clapton Ultras, what gave them the absolute right to dictate who can and cannot come to see Clapton play?

I'm not the greatest fan of the Clapton Ultras, especially after meeting them when they tagged along to my lot v Met Police. Seeing grown men encourage their children to sing the Harry Roberts song? Fuck off! That's more than a touch pathetic eh? To me, that's not too far removed from monkey noises or pro EDL songs. I'm not a sensitive soul by any means but these CU lot... I'm not defending them getting attacked by any means but it was always going to happen eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

BCBlues said:


> Come on Pickman's model , rolly eyes, face palms. Get your thesaurus back out and look up 'sarcastic'.


that'll learn me for reading the words and ignoring the pictures


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> I'm genuinely curious though.  These Clapton Ultras, what gave them the absolute right to dictate who can and cannot come to see Clapton play?
> 
> I'm not the greatest fan of the Clapton Ultras, especially after meeting them when they tagged along to my lot v Met Police. Seeing grown men encourage their children to sing the Harry Roberts song? Fuck off! That's more than a touch pathetic eh? To me, that's not too far removed from monkey noises or pro EDL songs. I'm not a sensitive soul by any means but these CU lot... I'm not defending them getting attacked by any means but it was always going to happen eh?



Harry Roberts and other anti OB songs were standard fare at the football back in the day, CW and the like still play with that stuff now,  to compare that to monkey noises / Edl songs maybe says more about your politics than theirs .


----------



## TopCat (Aug 10, 2015)

There's not much more to discuss in my opinion. Clapton are unrepentant and have less friends than they did. Knowing this they are a target for all sorts. Solidarity is hard/impossible given what's happened. They could well get a large firm up against them, get smashed and routed and scatter to the winds.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2015)

cantsin said:


> Harry Roberts and other anti OB songs were standard fare at the football back in the day, CW and the like still play with that stuff now,  to compare that to monkey noises / Edl songs maybe says more about your politics than theirs .



Yes, thank you for patronising me so well. Having been going to football since the late 80s I am entirely unaware of football culture and songs. 

And yes, I do think they're not too far off of being equally odious, given its a song glorying in the murder of three people. Only people I can really recall singing it are attention seeking fraggles tbh.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2015)

Having read back my last post,I now realise I am an old gimmer.

Please excuseme whilst I go and cry in the corner


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

am i the only person  to have had gently threatening pms from people in the sh and the cu camps?


----------



## TopCat (Aug 10, 2015)

Probably.


----------



## treelover (Aug 10, 2015)

Becchio53 said:


> View attachment 75157




I am right in noticing they have used the Spanish Republican/Communist slogan, 'No Parasan' on that banner?, ironic and bizarre if that's the case.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> I am right in noticing they have used the Spanish Republican/Communist slogan, 'No Parasan' on that banner?, ironic and bizarre if that's the case.


i think you'll find it says "no parmesan"


----------



## treelover (Aug 10, 2015)

Cheesy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

treelover said:


> I am right in noticing they have used the Spanish Republican/Communist slogan, 'No Parasan' on that banner?, ironic and bizarre if that's the case.


no PASARAN. no PASARAN. not no parasan


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> am i the only person  to have had gently threatening pms from people in the sh and the cu camps?



I could send you a suggestive inbox just to cheer you up?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> I could send you a suggestive inbox just to cheer you up?


i don't want an entire inbox, but i always welcome suggestive pms


----------



## LiamO (Aug 10, 2015)

So you are gonna slip something into Pickman's model 's Inbox to cheer him up?

There you go. Suggestive, without even bothering with a pm.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you'll find it says "no parmesan"



and presumably indicates some kind of affiliation  to  / identifying with the Pie + Mash / 5w shitbags - who go well beyond EDL waters into more fash territory


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 10, 2015)

cantsin said:


> and presumably indicates some kind of affiliation  to  / identifying with the Pie + Mash / 5w shitbags - who go well beyond EDL waters into more fash territory




Kind of depends when the photo's from. There were a whole load of variants on 'No pasaran' dreamt up by the EDL et al ' No pasta Sam" was another one iirc.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Kind of depends when the photo's from. There were a whole load of variants on 'No pasaran' dreamt up by the EDL et al ' No pasta Sam" was another one iirc.



ah right, thought all that came from from P + M, so maybe the other way round


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 10, 2015)

Sending a pm to pickmans is a lot like making love to a beautiful woman .

I've never done it .


----------



## andysays (Aug 10, 2015)

TopCat said:


> There's not much more to discuss in my opinion. *Clapton are unrepentant and have less friends than they did*. Knowing this they are a target for all sorts. Solidarity is hard/impossible given what's happened. They could well get a large firm up against them, get smashed and routed and scatter to the winds.



Shades of "No one likes us, we don't care", ironically enough


----------



## TopCat (Aug 10, 2015)

andysays said:


> Shades of "No one likes us, we don't care", ironically enough


Yeah but there are thousands of Wall.


----------



## Nice one (Aug 10, 2015)

for the cockney londoners - a benefit for the clapton one!







https://www.facebook.com/events/933811693308277/


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 10, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Having read back my last post,I now realise I am an old gimmer.
> 
> Please excuseme whilst I go and cry in the corner


you are by no means the only 1 one here. apart from me and a couple of strapping young uns, everyone is on statins or prozac.


----------



## cesare (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> am i the only person  to have had gently threatening pms from people in the sh and the cu camps?


Both sides are threatening you? Blimey.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 10, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> I'm genuinely curious though.  These Clapton Ultras, what gave them the absolute right to dictate who can and cannot come to see Clapton play?
> 
> I'm not the greatest fan of the Clapton Ultras, especially after meeting them when they tagged along to my lot v Met Police. Seeing grown men encourage their children to sing the Harry Roberts song? Fuck off! That's more than a touch pathetic eh? To me, that's not too far removed from monkey noises or pro EDL songs. I'm not a sensitive soul by any means but these CU lot... I'm not defending them getting attacked by any means but it was always going to happen eh?



Various old school Dulwich and new veaus had sung that at CH so you can hardly blame Clapton for it. It's always a shit fixture with a horrible atmosphere like the year before when some idiots threw sausages on the pitch (from outside the ground, i believe) Going back to the Clapton issue there aren't many Ultras thar bring their kids and from memory the ones I know didn't bring theirs so I'd be interested to know who that was...


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 10, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Stirring the shit aside, where's your denouncement  of your mates attacking antifascists and having the brass neck to not give a fuck in hindsight?



Like I said I know people on both sides and in between and they're not making a song and dance about it. The people stirring the shit are those with a variety of axes to grind or want to look hard.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't want an entire inbox, but i always welcome suggestive pms



I'm sure you do, you dark horse


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> am i the only person  to have had gently threatening pms from people in the sh and the cu camps?



No you're not.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 10, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> Like I said I know people on both sides and in between and they're not making a song and dance about it. The people stirring the shit are those with a variety of axes to grind or want to look hard.



It's that simple?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 10, 2015)

.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 10, 2015)

TopCat said:


> There's not much more to discuss in my opinion. Clapton are unrepentant and have less friends than they did. Knowing this they are a target for all sorts. Solidarity is hard/impossible given what's happened. They could well get a large firm up against them, get smashed and routed and scatter to the winds.


I heard Dulwich are on the warpath for them


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 10, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I heard Dulwich are on the warpath for them



  The rabble would sooner cuddle someone to death than get in a scrap


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

cu wld have more mates if they hadn't had some kangaroo court pronounce on sh's case in a peculiar form of justice inferior to that meted out by bourgeois courts. it's possible it's not too late for contrition on that matter: atm cu should be building bridges, and i wonder if apologies in the right quarters might not pay dividends. of course they may not restore the status quo ante - but might lead to some restoration of cu's reputation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

poptyping said:


> The rabble would sooner cuddle someone to death than get in a scrap


bearhugs


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> bearhugs



Beard hugs


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Beard hugs


hipster alert?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> hipster alert?



Nah just to lazy to shave, I reckon. Unless crocks and camo shorts have suddenly become what the cool kids wear.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> cu wld have more mates if they hadn't had some kangaroo court pronounce on sh's case in a peculiar form of justice inferior to that meted out by bourgeois courts. it's possible it's not too late for contrition on that matter: atm cu should be building bridges, and i wonder if apologies in the right quarters might not pay dividends. of course they may not restore the status quo ante - but might lead to some restoration of cu's reputation.



Common sense , and it all boils down to having the strength of character required to undergo such a process .
" manning up" for want of a better term, and admitting a serious blunder might go some distance in some quarters . Those mums for example had the cop on and the strength of character to immediately set the record straight when a statement was issued in their name . A similar process by CU might have the potential to heal a wound or 2 . And that's a perfect example for them to consider .

Although the signs atm don't look too encouraging tbh. Cos it might mean a choice between 2 sets of friends . Some of those people prominent in that video won't like such a process of necessary bridge building one little bit. And a track record of mendacity in issuing statements doesn't point to any great strength of character in that particular quarter either . But ultimately it should be in everyone's interest that common sense prevails eventually . There's certainly no winners on the left at the minute no matter how much some idiots regard that embrassing debacle as a victory .

The balls definitely at the CUs feet on this one I'm afraid . Totally up to them how they choose to play it . more own goals ? Hopefully not .


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Aug 10, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I heard Dulwich are on the warpath for them



We sent in the artillery, behind the main stand at half 2 for their next Saturday game. Super big pillow fight.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> cu wld have more mates if they hadn't had some kangaroo court pronounce on sh's case in a peculiar form of justice inferior to that meted out by bourgeois courts. it's possible it's not too late for contrition on that matter: atm cu should be building bridges, and i wonder if apologies in the right quarters might not pay dividends. of course they may not restore the status quo ante - but might lead to some restoration of cu's reputation.



Cld be argued CU's  were attempting to police (what they prob see as ) their  own spaces, a fairly legit tactic/aim , nothing necessarily bourgie-kangaroo ct about that - whether they had made the right judgement on SH etc before doing so is another matter, as is the subsequent attack /  touting shit show etc...

Actually, feel free to ignore all that, i actually nodded off writing it -  think i may have hit the wall on this one...


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 10, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It's that simple?



To be honest it's a perfect storm of a clusterfuck. There's all sorts of gripes and battles and shit being thrown into the ring.

I think it was disgusting to treat the Celtic fans like this. Clapton have made a fatal mistake but not coming out and condeming the grass and raising cash for the Celtic lad.

I also think SH blatantly took liberties and must have known what would have unfolded.

It's a real mess and a major fucking win for the fash. The implications are grave. I'm not going to spell it out here.


----------



## Fingers (Aug 10, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> To be honest it's a perfect storm of a clusterfuck. There's all sorts of gripes and battles and shit being thrown into the ring.
> 
> I think it was disgusting to treat the Celtic fans like this. Clapton have made a fatal mistake but not coming out and condeming the grass and raising cash for the Celtic lad.
> 
> ...



Whilst I agree with a lot of that, I am not sure it is a victory for the fash.  They are currently spending far more time fighting each other than the left are.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 10, 2015)

Who would have thought it - cu going toe to toe and standing their ground against millwall and Charlton combined. That's a result in football violence terms. Expect more of it though. Once you get a rep, the club will get sucked into rucking again!


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 10, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Whilst I agree with a lot of that, I am not sure it is a victory for the fash.  They are currently spending far more time fighting each other than the left are.



CU are going to need as many allies as possible this season. Burning bridges is not the way forward.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> Who would have thought it - cu going toe to toe and standing their ground against millwall and Charlton combined. That's a result in football violence terms. Expect more of it though. Once you get a rep, the club will get sucked into rucking again!



oh fuck off plse, you were laughing at CU earlier in the thread , you're a total fraud .

"rucking " ?? 

ffs, honestly, you can't think anyone's buying this ( apart from Mal, obvs)  ?


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 10, 2015)

cantsin said:


> oh fuck off plse, you were laughing at CU earlier in the thread , you're a total fraud .
> 
> "rucking " ??""
> 
> ffs, honestly, you can't think anyone's buying this ?


Come to millwall mate, ill walk you around the pubs and you can ask my mates if I am a fraud in millwall terms. Id rather be a fraud though than you sad fuck who still seems dead into it.  Now fuck off and go and iron your "clobber" or something you cringe worthy weirdo.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> Come to millwall mate, ill walk you around the pubs and you can ask my mates if I am a fraud in millwall terms. Id rather be a fraud though than you sad fuck who still seems dead into it.  Now fuck off and go and iron your "clobber" or something you cringe worthy weirdo.



ha ha , no chance amigo, not getting into ruckage with Big Fakeys gang, waaay too heavy 4 me


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 10, 2015)

What do people think of the new football league show?


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Various old school Dulwich and new veaus had sung that at CH so you can hardly blame Clapton for it. It's always a shit fixture with a horrible atmosphere like the year before when some idiots threw sausages on the pitch (from outside the ground, i believe) Going back to the Clapton issue there aren't many Ultras thar bring their kids and from memory the ones I know didn't bring theirs so I'd be interested to know who that was...



Yes and I've pulled old school Dulwich up on it too. Much like singing pro I.R.A songs away at Aldershot in the late 90s, a similar vibe?

I absolutely remember a larger, grey haired Clapton Ultra encouraging his son to sing the Harry Roberts song but hey, maybe I have different standards eh? Given I'd be embarrassed to either sing that, much less encourage my son to follow suit.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> Who would have thought it - cu going toe to toe and standing their ground against millwall and Charlton combined. That's a result in football violence terms. Expect more of it though. Once you get a rep, the club will get sucked into rucking again!



I can't wait for the next Green Street sequel..... Danny dyer must be wetting himself at the chance to get inside the CU firm!


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 10, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Yes and I've pulled old school Dulwich up on it too. Much like singing pro I.R.A songs away at Aldershot in the late 90s, a similar vibe?
> 
> I absolutely remember a larger, grey haired Clapton Ultra encouraging his son to sing the Harry Roberts song but hey, maybe I have different standards eh? Given I'd be embarrassed to either sing that, much less encourage my son to follow suit.



Haven't a clue who that might be.

And yeah your probably right about the different standards. Harry Roberts is not at all comparable to racist chanting, imo.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 10, 2015)

Harry Roberts isn't very nice, but racist chanting is actually damaging.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 10, 2015)

Being a police officer wasn't a protected characteristic last time I checked. Oh wait


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 10, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> To be honest it's a perfect storm of a clusterfuck. There's all sorts of gripes and battles and shit being thrown into the ring.
> 
> I think it was disgusting to treat the Celtic fans like this. Clapton have made a fatal mistake but not coming out and condeming the grass and raising cash for the Celtic lad.
> 
> ...



It's a nightmare, tbh. Politics isn't a game. They'll learn this the hard way soon enough I guess.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Being a police officer wasn't a protected characteristic last time I checked. Oh wait



Oh i dunno, how about basic, common decency? There's plenty songs or chants to sing (I fucking love the Edgar Kail in my heart song!) without,as I said before, glorying in the death of 3 old bill.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 10, 2015)

but anyway, what about the ashes ... ?


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 10, 2015)

My OH (Charlton born and bred) thinks the biggest travesty out of this whole saga is Charlton and Millwall working together.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> My OH (Charlton born and bred) thinks the biggest travesty out of this whole saga is Charlton and Millwall working together.



Charlton and Millwall didn't work together.

A bunch of wankers with very small penises worked together


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 10, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Oh i dunno, how about basic, common decency? There's plenty songs or chants to sing (I fucking love the Edgar Kail in my heart song!) without,as I said before, glorying in the death of 3 old bill.



That's not the point. Harry Roberts is miles apart from racist chanting, n words and monkey sounds.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2015)

poptyping said:


> That's not the point. Harry Roberts is miles apart from racist chanting, n words and monkey sounds.



A couple hundred yards, not miles but fuck it, each to their own.


----------



## JTG (Aug 10, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> What do people think of the new football league show?


Vastly improved now that the Gas are back on it


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 10, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> To be honest it's a perfect storm of a clusterfuck. There's all sorts of gripes and battles and shit being thrown into the ring.
> 
> I think it was disgusting to treat the Celtic fans like this. Clapton have made a fatal mistake but not coming out and condeming the grass and raising cash for the Celtic lad.
> 
> ...



Turning up at a match isn't taking liberties by any means . He was escorting visiting leftists and football fans around various sites of left wing interest in london . People who fully expected to go there , who wanted to be there and he was their host for the afternoon and expected to bring them there  . No man who's been wrongly accused, as he maintains, and vindicated by separate investigations is going to hide his head in shame on the say so of idiots for whom mere accusation equals guilt . What happened next was completely humiliating for him . To allege he'd put himself and his guests  through that type of experience in order to prove some point in a pub with a small bunch of cranks and clowns is utterly ridiculous . I don't believe anyone could have foreseen idiocy on such a massive scale for one minute . It was completely over the top and unprecedented . I've never seen scenes of that nature before between leftists and anti fascists . Never .

. What was falsely alleged by Cu, and still is, is that he turned up mob handed looking a row . Thats the entire sad excuse for the attack which followed . They were completely wrong and attacked innocent people, people who visited in solidarity, who they publicly painted as aggressors  who'd come for a row . They used that false justification to attack them en masse and drive them from the ground . Then they issued a statement crowing about it, and daring anyone who had an issue with it to come and have a go at their ground . It was crowing and triumphant and full of smug self justification . And stone wrong . It was a debacle and everyone can see that yet they publicly congratulated themselves over it .

You , like the CU, seem to be in full support of a process were mere accusation equals immediate guilt and a damning of your character . A process that has plainly been led , instigated and had judgement passed by a complete bunch of idiots, as the disgraceful events which unfolded next plainly demonstrate to anyone with an ounce of cop on . The blame for that debacle lies firmly and squarely at their own feet . No one else's . And it's up to them to grow up and set about fixing their own mess. If they don't then there may well be consequences that absolutely no one on either side or the middle of this wants to see. But until they admit they fucked up then this situation is unlikely to go anywhere but backwards . Blaming SH for their own self inflicted debacles that they still can't step back from isn't going to bring that moment one second closer . Quite the reverse .


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 10, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> A couple hundred yards, not miles but fuck it, each to their own.



Tbh I don't expect much more from you. After all you can always shave your beard off and go back to being plain old Tony. The rest of us aren't that lucky.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 10, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It's a nightmare, tbh. Politics isn't a game. They'll learn this the hard way soon enough I guess.



The mean streets of non league London definitely aren't the students union . No matter how much polish lager you chuck around . I hope the lesson they learn isn't too harsh but it could turn out grim if enough predators smell blood in the water . Definite potential for grimness if this isn't sorted . Nobody wants that .


----------



## JimW (Aug 10, 2015)

JTG said:


> Vastly improved now that the Gas are back on it


Shouldn't have a studio audience for a clips show though, bloody stupid.


----------



## JTG (Aug 11, 2015)

JimW said:


> Shouldn't have a studio audience for a clips show though, bloody stupid.


Only useful if they're allowed to heckle McDongs highlights and call George Riley a Dirty Northern Bastard


----------



## LiamO (Aug 11, 2015)

I'm off on me holidays. Just wanted to say before I go...

Fuck 'em.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 11, 2015)

.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Tbh I don't expect much more from you. After all you can always shave your beard off and go back to being plain old Tony. The rest of us aren't that lucky.



I see you're comfortable with borderline racism.

How nice for you.

;-)


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 11, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> CU are going to need as many allies as possible this season. Burning bridges is not the way forward.





Citizen66 said:


> It's a nightmare, tbh. Politics isn't a game. They'll learn this the hard way soon enough I guess.





Casually Red said:


> The mean streets of non league London definitely aren't the students union . No matter how much polish lager you chuck around . I hope the lesson they learn isn't too harsh but it could turn out grim if enough predators smell blood in the water . Definite potential for grimness if this isn't sorted . Nobody wants that .



Errmm...I'm guessing the scenario you're all praying for is that CU are forced to beg on their knees for your forgiveness to save them from the big bad hooligan firms in the Essex Senior League. 

They may have been totally in the wrong over the SH affair (I'm in the six of one, half a dozen of the other camp) but I'm not sure they need help from that quarter. If it does all go mad mental crazy then they're more likely to draw numbers from the London squat scene than the RMT.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Errmm...I'm guessing the scenario you're all praying for is that CU are forced to beg on their knees for your forgiveness to save them from the big bad hooligan firms in the Essex Senior League.
> 
> They may have been totally in the wrong over the SH affair (I'm in the six of one, half a dozen of the other camp) but I'm not sure they need help from that quarter. If it does all go mad mental crazy then they're more likely to draw numbers from the London squat scene than the RMT.


things have got that bad? tbh i  can't recall london squatters turning out en masse for anything without a much broader political chord being struck.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> things have got that bad? tbh i  can't recall london squatters turning out en masse for anything without a much broader political chord being struck.



Football match where you can drink lager, let off smoke flares and shout "Antifa" to your hearts content, with the possibility of a punch up with the fash. I can see that going down quite well in certain circles.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Football match where you can drink lager, let off smoke flares and shout "Antifa" to your hearts content, with the possibility of a punch up with the fash. I can see that going down quite well in certain circles.


the thing with squatters is that they lead chaotic lifestyles by virtue of their lack of domestic stability. some of them may have spot-on politics. but if cu have to rely on numbers coming from them, clapton should look for an expedient paddle to help them out of that creek they're in.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 11, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> the London squat scene



is that still even a thing, though?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the thing with squatters is that they lead chaotic lifestyles by virtue of their lack of domestic stability. some of them may have spot-on politics. but if cu have to rely on numbers coming from them, clapton should look for an expedient paddle to help them out of that creek they're in.



I'm not sure that CU are up any creek. There have been two attempted fash attacks on them - the Thamesmead one was weeks in the planning and somewhere were the far-right held all the cards and yet they (CU) as Big Moaner points out did fairly well. A lot depends on whether there will be a load of nickings on either side in the weeks to come. If there are it'll damp things right down.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 11, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> is that still even a thing, though?



It looks like there was an anti-fascist squat party benefit in High Holborn last saturday that ended up with a few hundred masked up folk scrapping with the police - so I'd say yes.


----------



## JTG (Aug 11, 2015)

Tbh I feel sorry for any Essex Senior League clubs who end up with this shit on their patch when all they're trying to do is play some football


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 11, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> It looks like there was an anti-fascist squat party benefit in High Holborn last saturday that ended up with a few hundred masked up folk scrapping with the police - so I'd say yes.



OK cool. I'd assumed there was less people living in squats but a more dispersed scene around squat venues / social centres makes sense. Was that Holborn thing in the news? I was more interested in this going on round the corner from my flat over the weekend. 

(also, apologies for derail)


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> It looks like there was an anti-fascist squat party benefit in High Holborn last saturday that ended up with a few hundred masked up folk scrapping with the police - so I'd say yes.


i don't see what that has to do with squatters turning out to support cu, i imagine few people there were actually squatters. plus if even a 5% or 10% of people who turned out to anti-fascist benefits turned out to oppose the fash then the balance of forces would be rather different, the fascists would more frequently be outnumbered. sadly not the case.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> OK cool. I'd assumed there was less people living in squats but a more dispersed scene around squat venues / social centres makes sense. Was that Holborn thing in the news? I was more interested in this going on round the corner from my flat over the weekend.
> 
> (also, apologies for derail)


or not going on


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't see what that has to do with squatters turning out to support cu, i imagine few people there were actually squatters. plus if even a 5% or 10% of people who turned out to anti-fascist benefits turned out to oppose the fash then the balance of forces would be rather different, the fascists would more frequently be outnumbered. sadly not the case.



I agree - I'd even put CU in that category, as an active anti-fascist* I've had to learn to put up with the fact that there's a lot of 'soft support' (especially online). The squat scene thing is a bit of a de-rail - I was just trying to make the point that CU probably have other sources of numbers to draw on than the RMT or the Celtic supporters crowd or whatever. 

*sounds arrogant but you know what I mean


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 11, 2015)

I'd assume that more people go to bonehead gigs or give it large on facebook than turn up for far right stuff too.

CU obviously have a great social scene going, but without coming on like a field marshall it is incredibly dumb to divide anti-fascists like this.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> I agree - I'd even put CU in that category, as an active anti-fascist* I've had to learn to put up with the fact that there's a lot of 'soft support' (especially online). The squat scene thing is a bit of a de-rail - I was just trying to make the point that CU probably have other sources of numbers to draw on than the RMT or the Celtic supporters crowd or whatever.
> 
> *sounds arrogant but you know what I mean


the thing is that people may turn out for a scrap but are less likely to turn out for the next match or the next... while the opposition cannot be relied upon to be the same. in addition to which, i don't suppose clapton really want a name as a 'trouble club'.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 11, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I'd assume that more people go to bonehead gigs or give it large on facebook than turn up for far right stuff too.



I've seen the EDL (in their hey-day) described as a Facebook movement with a street presence.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the thing is that people may turn out for a scrap but are less likely to turn out for the next match or the next... while the opposition cannot be relied upon to be the same. in addition to which, i don't suppose clapton really want a name as a 'trouble club'.



Realistically though, there's only a couple of places that the opposition are going to get out the numbers. Also if it was a battleground every week then the place would be flooded with cops.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Realistically though, there's only a couple of places that the opposition are going to get out the numbers. If it was a battleground every week then the place would be flooded with cops.


what cu ought to do is to increase their week-on-week numbers, because that's the only way they'll be able to deal with this - they haven't shown a deft hand for diplomacy over the past several months.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 11, 2015)

Fuck em


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> I see you're comfortable with borderline racism.
> 
> How nice for you.
> 
> ;-)



You might have to spell out how I've been racist, borderline or otherwise. In the mean time check your beard privilege


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> You might have to spell out how I've been racist, borderline or otherwise. In the mean time check your beard privilege



How about telling a Sikh to shave?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> You might have to spell out how I've been racist, borderline or otherwise. In the mean time check your beard privilege


your comment about shaving a bit off i thought.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> How about telling a Sikh to shave?



Where did I say that? As a white convert to Sikhism you have the option of passing, esp with the current fashion for beards. And should you decide to not to be a Sikh anymore you could shave your beard and no one would be any the wiser. Brown people domt have that option. That's the point I was making. I wasn't telling you to shave your beard and I'm sorry if you thought that's what I meant.

You spoke about your experiences as a Sikh at a particular football ground, with out mentioning that you're white. You don't think that impacts on your experiences of those spaces?


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Tbh I don't expect much more from you. After all you can always shave your beard off and go back to being plain old Tony. The rest of us aren't that lucky.



There you go, telling me to shave. 

You're also really rather insulting about my religious beliefs in implying I can just 'change' them like they're a pair of trousers. 

Yes, I spoke of my experiences as a Sikh at 'Wall and I didn't say that I am white. Guess why that is? Because it's not relevant, not to me. Skin colour is of so little import to me that it didn't occur to me mention it. I would, now that I think of it, expect even more of a negative reaction as a gora Sikh as opposed to otherwise given I'm bloody enormous and really stand out, even more so in the 5 Ks. I didn't experience that at 'Wall on any of the occasions I was there last season. I did however experience it at Gillingham when I was searched and objected to my turban being touched and the steward kicking off when he found my kirpan. Happily a passing police officer put the hobby bobby in his place in regard of this.


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh If you're a white convert to Sikhism your complaint would be of "borderline" discrimination on the grounds of religion or belief not racism.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 11, 2015)

cesare said:


> tonysingh If you're a white convert to Sikhism your complaint would be of "borderline" discrimination on the grounds of religion or belief not racism.



Ah well, that's alright then.  

It's revert, not convert by the way.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> How about telling a Sikh to shave?



She didn't. She was pointing out you have a choice.


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Ah well, that's alright then.
> 
> It's revert, not convert by the way.


I corrected the categorisation of your complaint, not the substance  

You reverted back to being a Sikh?


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 11, 2015)

Rutita1 said:


> She didn't. She was pointing out you have a choice.



Again, I'm a fully observant Sikh. I don't really have a choice, I have to keep my kesh (unshorn hair) as part of the 5 Ks that every devout Sikh has. 



cesare said:


> I corrected the categorisation of your complaint, not the substance
> 
> You reverted back to being a Sikh?



No. 

I see it as going into the Sikh faith as that's what I always was, I was born as it, didnt realise that until I became a Singh. Not sure if that makes sense to you exactly, but it much like being a dark room, then the light being flipped on.


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Again, I'm a fully observant Sikh. I don't really have a choice, I have to keep my kesh (unshorn hair) as part of the 5 Ks that every devout Sikh has.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You were born into a Sikh family?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Rutita1 said:


> She didn't. She was pointing out you have a choice.



Yes exactly this. 

Tony - Your comments about skin colour being irrelevant illustrate pretty much exactly what I meant. You can never really get it. Even if you have adopted Sikhism, it's a choice you made and can unmake, even if just to pass temporarily. 

I can never do that. I will always be brown 'look' muslim. It's a totally different experience.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Btw I've heard of the concept of reverts in Islam but not in Sikhism. Is it an actual thing? Or just how you personally feel. Genuinely interested.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> expect even more of a negative reaction as a gora Sikh as opposed to otherwise given *I'm bloody enormous* and really stand out, even more so in the 5 Ks. I didn't experience that at 'Wall on any of the occasions I was there last season.



I think racists are somewhat reluctant to abuse or attack large Asian or black guys, unless they are mobhanded . They usually pick on the smaller guys, or women. Cowards.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

tony.c said:


> I think racists are somewhat reluctant to abuse or attack large Asian or black guys, unless they are mobhanded . They usually pick on the smaller guys, or women. Cowards.



Tony Singh is a white man.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Tony Singh is a white man.


Yes I gathered that, just saying racists/fascists would be unlikely to pick on him if he is big, even if he is identified as a Sikh.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 11, 2015)

cesare said:


> You were born into a Sikh family?



I explained that clumsily, forgive me.

I was born into a family that had nor religous beliefs at all. My dad is white and from Ireland. My mother is white and from London. I was brought up with no religous instruction of belief system at all. A blank slate if you will. 

I felt drawn to Sikhi for a number of years, took the plunge and now am working towards taking Amrit, which is sort of like a baptism. 

Again, my apologies for explaning that not so well.



poptyping said:


> Yes exactly this.
> 
> Tony - Your comments about skin colour being irrelevant illustrate pretty much exactly what I meant. You can never really get it. Even if you have adopted Sikhism, it's a choice you made and can unmake, even if just to pass temporarily.
> 
> I can never do that. I will always be brown 'look' muslim. It's a totally different experience.



And i'll always be white, I'll always be a Sikh now. I'll experience hatred and dicrimination too. Your experiences will always be different than mine. That doesnt make either of them worse or better, it's just framed in our experiences. 



poptyping said:


> Btw I've heard of the concept of reverts in Islam but not in Sikhism. Is it an actual thing? Or just how you personally feel. Genuinely interested.



Sikhi doesn't treat people new to it as any different really. Once you're a Singh (or Kaur) then that's it, you're on of us. The revert thing is one that I would use across ALL that become a different faith, no matter where they come from prior to that. 

I realise I've not answered your question yet by the way. 

There's no formal concept of revert/convert in Sikhi. It's a personal choice to use the word revert as I sort of think that convert in insulting and implies your religous beliefs as a fashion choice. Revert, to me at least, means more than that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Where did I say that? As a white convert to Sikhism you have the option of passing, esp with the current fashion for beards. And should you decide to not to be a Sikh anymore you could shave your beard and no one would be any the wiser. Brown people domt have that option. That's the point I was making. I wasn't telling you to shave your beard and I'm sorry if you thought that's what I meant.
> 
> You spoke about your experiences as a Sikh at a particular football ground, with out mentioning that you're white. You don't think that impacts on your experiences of those spaces?


presumably all sikh men of all hues have the option of shaving then. but i myself wouldn't ask a sikh to shave, no matter their colour, just as i wouldn't ask someone wearing the hijab, be they never so european, to remove it.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> And i'll always be white, I'll always be a Sikh now. I'll experience hatred and dicrimination too. Your experiences will always be different than mine. That doesnt make either of them worse or better, it's just framed in our experiences.



It's not about better or worse, it's about you having the decency to acknowledge that you have a choice that she doesn't have, it's not a competition, it's about honesty and acknowledging her experience.


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh You have described your committed and personal beliefs flowing from Sikhism as opposed to beliefs arising from Sikhism in and of itself. This is about your personal identity. I don't think that poptyping has misrepresented you and I don't think that her observations were borderline racist.

That said, it might have been more helpful to understand the context for the shaving observation being about choice, rather than about Sikhism.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 11, 2015)

This thread has moved into parody now.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> presumably all sikh men of all hues have the option of shaving then. but i myself wouldn't ask a sikh to shave, no matter their colour, just as i wouldn't ask someone wearing the hijab, be they never so european, to remove it.



As I've already clarified I was making a comment about choice. If a brown Sikh were to shave his beard he'd still be brown and still subject to racial and (percieved) religious discrimination. If a white person choses to stop identifying as a Sikh it's unlikely there continue to experience discrimination in the same way. That's the point.


tonysingh yeah it sounds like you get my original point... Our experiences are very different. And I can't be arsed to argue anymore either.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> but i myself wouldn't ask a sikh to shave, no matter their colour, just as i wouldn't ask someone wearing the hijab, be they never so european, to remove it.



I don't think poptyping was asking anyone to shave, just pointing out that as a white guy he can avoid discrimination, prejudice and abuse. Black/brown people don't have that option.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

cesare said:


> I don't think that her observations were borderline racist.


.... I'd doubt someone's actual experiences and understanding of racism if they did.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

tony.c said:


> I don't think poptyping was asking anyone to shave, just pointing out that as a white guy he can avoid discrimination, prejudice and abuse. Black/brown people don't have that option.



She didn't ask anyone to shave. She made a fair point about choice. Misrepresenting her point is bloody nasty IMO.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

cesare said:


> tonysingh You have described your committed and personal beliefs flowing from Sikhism as opposed to beliefs arising from Sikhism in and of itself. This is about your personal identity. I don't think that poptyping has misrepresented you and I don't think that her observations were borderline racist.
> 
> That said, it might have been more helpful to understand the context for the shaving observation being about choice, rather than about Sikhism.



Yeah cesare your right with that. I think that made it easier to misunderstand what I was trying to say. Even if I knew I wasn't being a dick


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> As I've already clarified I was making a comment about choice. If a brown Sikh were to shave his beard he'd still be brown and still subject to racial and (percieved) religious discrimination. If a white person choses to stop identifying as a Sikh it's unlikely there continue to experience discrimination in the same way. That's the point.
> 
> 
> tonysingh yeah it sounds like you get my original point... Our experiences are very different.


yes. i understand that. but while someone is a sikh or a muslim or whatnot i don't think it's 'a good thing' to ask them to remove the signs of their religion. while they espouse those beliefs it's attacking their identity. i fully understand that there is discrimination based on race or perceived race as well as on the grounds of religion or perceived religion, and that people can have or be perceived to have more than one of these layers.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> This thread has moved into parody now.



What makes you say that. The stuff we are talking about here (skin colour, representation and choice) has a real and profound impact on the lives of black and brown people.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

tony.c said:


> I don't think poptyping was asking anyone to shave, just pointing out that as a white guy he can avoid discrimination, prejudice and abuse. Black/brown people don't have that option.


as ever, i'm glad to hear your opinion. i'm sorry, though, that you feel poptyping was less than clear.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yes. i understand that. but while someone is a sikh or a muslim or whatnot i don't think it's 'a good thing' to ask them to remove the signs of their religion. while they espouse those beliefs it's attacking their identity. i fully understand that there is discrimination based on race or perceived race as well as on the grounds of religion or perceived religion, and that people can have or be perceived to have more than one of these layers.



Yeah I didn't ask him to shave his beard. I pointed out he has a choice I don't have. I can't keep repeating myself here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Yeah I didn't ask him to shave his beard. I pointed out he has a choice I don't have. I can't keep repeating myself here.


you can. you are. if you read my post you'll see i acknowledge that. but don't mind me, carry on.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

What about white orthodox jews? Or bosnian/albanian muslims who are white, do they also have that choice? Bit dodgy ground this


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Stop saying I told him to shave off his beard then. I didn't say that. So be a love and put a sock in it, pickers x


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

> After all you can always shave your beard off and go back to being plain old Tony. The rest of us aren't that lucky.



There is no question in this post. It is an observation. Why are people deliberately misrepresenting poptyping ? Why are people trying to undermine a perfectly reasonable/fair observation based around choice?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> What about white orthodox jews? Or bosnian/albanian muslims who are white, do they also have that choice? *Bit dodgy ground this*



In which sense?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Stop saying I told him to shave off his beard then. I didn't say that. So be a love and put a sock in it, pickers x


i have nowhere said you told anyone to do anything.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> What makes you say that. The stuff we are talking about here (skin colour, representation and choice) has a real and profound impact on the lives of black and brown people.



The fact someone was poking you with a stick because they've decided they're more Asian than you.


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2015)

Rutita1 said:


> There is no question in this post. It is an observation. Why are people deliberately misrepresenting poptyping ? Why are people trying to undermine a perfectly reasonable/fair observation based around choice?


I think it's because tonysingh jumped in and called it borderline racism. But it's worth people going back and rereading the exchange because poptyping didn't suggest that he shaved his beard off but pointed out that he has a continuing choice.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

Rutita1 said:


> In which sense?



Because white people can still be discriminated against because of their religion - in the case of bosnian muslims for example - and be just as unable to remove the 'signs' of it unless ive misunderstood something.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Because white people can still be discriminated against because of their religion - in the case of bosnian muslims for example - and be just as unable to remove the 'signs' of it unless ive misunderstood something.


not to mention irish catholics...


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> The fact someone was poking you with a stick because they've decided they're more Asian than you.



Really? Is that really what you think we're talking about here? If that's the case, I feel quite sad.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Because white people can still be discriminated against because of their religion - in the case of bosnian muslims for example - and be just as unable to remove the 'signs' of it unless ive misunderstood something.



Who has said anything to the contrary?

Froggy, don't let the stirring and misrepresentation of what poptyping posted suck you in mate. It's worth rereading what was actually posted.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> as ever, i'm glad to hear your opinion. i'm sorry, though, that you feel poptyping was less than clear.


I thought poptyping was quite clear. I used the 'I think' to indicate it was my opinion. Unlike some posters who seem to believe their opinions are fact (not you though!).


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> not to mention irish catholics...



Yup, eg the shankhill butchers picked their victims purely because of their accents and living in a certain area, neither things they could really control


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

tony.c said:


> I thought poptyping was quite clear. I used the 'I think' to indicate it was my opinion. Unlike some posters who seem to believe their opinions are fact (not you though!).


did i not acknowledge your opinion?


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2015)

It's not always easy to make choices about religion, and sometimes those are life or death choices. But you can't make decisions about your colour and ethnicity at all.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Really? Is that really what you think we're talking about here? If that's the case, I feel quite sad.



I haven't read it all in its entirety. Just the first bit.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

Quite frankly it annoys the fuck out of me that this 'whataboutism' is actually happening here on this very clear point. It doesn't surprise me though given that instead of actually hearing her opinion and acknowledging her experience poptyping has been accused of borderline racism and had her experiences/opinions distorted.

Says a lot to me.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 11, 2015)

I'm not sure why she objected to my vague support?


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 11, 2015)

I have a choice to shave or not? 

No I don't. To imply I do is insulting.

But hey, I'll just shut up and let my identity be attacked. 

I've not denied poptypings experiences at all have I?


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm not sure why she objected to my vague support?


I think it might be because it wasn't about being "more Asian" than her.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> did i not acknowledge your opinion?


Yes you did. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought you were saying I was less than clear about poptyping's comment because I used the words 'I think'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

tony.c said:


> Yes you did. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought you were saying I was less than clear about poptyping's comment because I used the words 'I think'.


i thought you were saying she was less than clear because you proceeded to tell me what she'd said.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> I have a choice to shave or not?
> 
> No I don't. To imply I do is insulting.
> 
> ...



Your identity was not attacked. She made a fair point. You CAN (ability to) shave regardless of whether you want to or not, you do have a choice, whether you want that choice or not is another matter.

The fact you can't acknowledge that and accused her of borderline racism is a joke tbh.


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> I have a choice to shave or not?
> 
> No I don't. To imply I do is insulting.
> 
> ...


You have a choice about your religion. No-one's denying your heartfelt convictions and beliefs, nor that you need to comply with the 5 ks if you continue to be a Sikh. But it's your choice whether to continue to be a Sikh or not.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 11, 2015)

cesare said:


> I think it might be because it wasn't about being "more Asian" than her.



Sorry, badly worded. I was aware of poptypings ethnicity, which made it look a bit comedic her being accused of racism, was all.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Sorry, badly worded. I was aware of poptypings ethnicity, which made it look a bit comedic her being accused of racism, was all.



Thanks.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

Ive read what was posted, i agree with poptyping (i think) the examples i mentioned ethnicity is still quite linked with religion so not really within the individuals control, it was more the idea that 'white' people could simply choose to stop being a certain religion and not be discriminated against i dont really agree with as ive experienced antisemitic bullshit based on my name being quite jewish despite not being observant at the time


( i know thats not what poptyping was saying btw)


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 11, 2015)

Wow.

Guess I should have not bothered mentioning I was offended by poptyping then eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Wow.
> 
> Guess I should have not bothered mentioning I was offended by poptyping then eh?


by no means. this is urban after all.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

Yeh if you're a convert you can just drop your lifetyle and in most cases can just go back to your 'old' position in society, being treated better due to skin colour etc, not that you would given friendships that you have built up through the religion, but you prob wouldnt face any kind of official discrimination as a result of it.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Wow.
> 
> Guess I should have not bothered mentioning I was offended by poptyping then eh?



Mentioning that you were offended and explaining why is quite another thing to accusing her of borderline racism and misrepresenting what she said.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 11, 2015)

A militant antiracist dockers' union leader I knew, Micky Fenn (RIP) used to say he hated racists because they picked on people because of the colour of their skin which they couldn't change.
People can change their religion*, their politics, even (sometimes) their class, but not usually their skin colour.

*Edit: and name,


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

round two


----------



## festa (Aug 11, 2015)

.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

festa said:


> .


here's an odd fish


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Wow.
> 
> Guess I should have not bothered mentioning I was offended by poptyping then eh?



You were offended by something you thought I said. And I've apologised for that misunderstanding. I'm beginning to get offended by you continuing to misrepresent me and what i said and accusing me of racism.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

tony.c said:


> People can change their religion, their politics, even (sometimes) their class, but not usually their skin colour.



Which is the point which was made. Getting all competative about it and twisting what she said was particularly odd, given the subject matter.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

I've never witnessed such a scramble to be bottom of the pile. 

Citizen66 your right it's a fucking parody but not for the reason you mentioned.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> I've never witnessed such a scramble to be bottom of the pile.
> 
> Citizen66 your right it's a fucking parody but not for the reason you mentioned.



_Whataboutism_ undermines what is being said by nuetralising it. It silences your voice because it refuses to acknowledge the point you are making/your experiences. It is competative and patronising.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Rutita1 said:


> _Whataboutism_ undermines what is being said by nuetralising it. It silences your voice because it refuses to acknowledge the point you are making/your experiences. It is competative and patronising.



Yeah this. Thank you.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 11, 2015)

poptyping said:


> I've never witnessed such a scramble to be bottom of the pile.
> 
> Citizen66 your right it's a fucking parody but not for the reason you mentioned.



It was an observation that I now wish I'd kept to myself.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 11, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Yup, eg the shankhill butchers picked their victims purely because of their accents and living in a certain area, neither things they could really control


and got it wrong a few times as well...


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

Yeah im sorry if i offended anyone, i honestly didnt intend to at all


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 11, 2015)

Let's all settle down and have a cuppa


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah im sorry if i offended anyone, i honestly didnt intend to at all



Not your fault. The original  point was being deliberately distorted.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 11, 2015)

Storm in a teacup.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

Its just that ive had antisemitic bollocks based on my name despite the fact i wasnt practicing at the time but when thinking about it, that actually supports poptyping's point, because its to do with my/my dads ethnicity rather than having chosen anything.


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah im sorry if i offended anyone, i honestly didnt intend to at all


You *are* right about ethnicity often being linked to religion and def a point that should be made. But you can convert to or from religions but not the ethnic heritage.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Millwall are pretty hardcore in their chants - no one likes us, we don't care - but I don't know of any evidence of organised fascism in the ground, unlike Chelsea.



Chelsea has been bonehead central at least as far back as the mid-'70s, when I first went to a Derby (Fulham vs Chelsea) there. Twats selling their arsewipe sheets, and selling out of the fuckers.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 11, 2015)

What was this thread about again?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> What was this thread about again?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 11, 2015)

BCBlues said:


> People like you help to perpetuate that image. We're not all like that trust me. Its just lazy generalisation.



No-one has claimed all Chelsea supporters are like that, they've made the point that Stamford Bridge attracts boneheads.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> No-one has claimed all Chelsea supporters are like that, they've made the point that Stamford Bridge attracts boneheads.


like a cesspit attracts flies


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 11, 2015)

tonysingh said:


> Danny dyer must be wetting himself...


Same as ever, then.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 11, 2015)

so what about them ashes eh?


----------



## JTG (Aug 11, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> so what about them ashes eh?


Didn't watch them. Was following an obscure club side in the Surrey Championship with my beardy chums. We're very inclusive, anyone can join us in our deckchairs. Unless they're trade unionists


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

JTG said:


> Didn't watch them. Was following an obscure club side in the Surrey Championship with my beardy chums. We're very inclusive, anyone can join us in our deckchairs. Unless they're trade unionists


are there stands? if so, what're they like?


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 11, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> I'm not sure that CU are up any creek. There have been two attempted fash attacks on them - the Thamesmead one was weeks in the planning and somewhere were the far-right held all the cards and yet they (CU) as Big Moaner points out did fairly well. A lot depends on whether there will be a load of nickings on either side in the weeks to come. If there are it'll damp things right down.




Righto then , there's that sorted .


So...fuck em .


----------



## alfajobrob (Aug 12, 2015)




----------



## alfajobrob (Aug 12, 2015)

Just a gambler


----------



## alfajobrob (Aug 12, 2015)

Some of the hyperbole has been funny. A few EDL scummer's in Thamesmead doesn't constitute a riot or a firm.

Millwall*\Charlton to ambush Clapton...bollocks..I'm a pussycat and I know thats gash..don't even start it up.



*Still sorry about about Wembley btw fella....I owe you something for that, just got trashed, still feel guilty


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Let's all settle down and have a cuppa





tony.c said:


> Storm in a teacup.


ho ho


----------



## pocketscience (Aug 12, 2015)

When in doubt, blame Millwall.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 12, 2015)

pocketscience said:


> When in doubt, blame Millwall.


It was ever thus.


----------



## wurlycurly (Aug 12, 2015)

Fuck 'em. 'Mon the Celtic.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 12, 2015)

no argy bargy with these kind of chaps!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> no argy bargy with these kind of chaps!
> 
> View attachment 75290


----------



## xslavearcx (Aug 12, 2015)




----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2015)

xslavearcx said:


>


----------



## BCBlues (Aug 12, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> No-one has claimed all Chelsea supporters are like that, they've made the point that Stamford Bridge attracts boneheads.



He started it  that Citizen Smith bloke 



Pickman's model said:


> like a cesspit attracts flies



And you can piss of.
I've spelt it wrong so that you can correct me


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2015)

BCBlues said:


> He started it  that Citizen Smith bloke
> 
> 
> 
> ...


no, you've spelt it correctly.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 12, 2015)

tony.c said:


> Storm in a teacup.



A brew haha


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> A brew haha


oh dear


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 12, 2015)

I thought it was a spiffing little pun.


----------



## BCBlues (Aug 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no, you've spelt it correctly.



So I did, but one of my other words must have escaped you superb pedantry


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 13, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Errmm...I'm guessing the scenario you're all praying for is that CU are forced to beg on their knees for your forgiveness to save them from the big bad hooligan firms in the Essex Senior League.
> 
> They may have been totally in the wrong over the SH affair (I'm in the six of one, half a dozen of the other camp) but I'm not sure they need help from that quarter. If it does all go mad mental crazy then they're more likely to draw numbers from the London squat scene than the RMT.



Admitting you majorly fucked up , made a bad mistake isn't begging on your knees . It's a sign of strength . Of sound moral character . It's not just about essex hooligans . It's about taking your name out of the dirt . Because that were it is now frankly . What's being said about this outfit far and wide is far from complimentary . A lot of people are disgusted and rightly so . That situation continuing as it is isn't in anyone's interests .


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 13, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Errmm...I'm guessing the scenario you're all praying for is that CU are forced to beg on their knees for your forgiveness to save them from the big bad hooligan firms in the Essex Senior League.
> 
> They may have been totally in the wrong over the SH affair (I'm in the six of one, half a dozen of the other camp) but I'm not sure they need help from that quarter. If it does all go mad mental crazy then they're more likely to draw numbers from the London squat scene than the RMT.



Nobody dares mention the London Squat scene . Is this what anti fascism has become , a scene ?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 13, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> oh dear


come on, it's not as bad as some on ere!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2015)

BCBlues said:


> So I did, but one of my other words must have escaped you superb pedantry


i'll leave it to one of the überpedants to discover


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 13, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Nobody dares mention the London Squat scene . Is this what anti fascism has become , a scene ?



No - anti-fascism is a movement - the squat scene is a 'scene'.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 14, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> No - anti-fascism is a movement - the squat scene is a 'scene'.



Its a movement that relies on a scene?


----------



## two sheds (Aug 14, 2015)

My movements don't rely on any scene  .


----------



## JimW (Aug 14, 2015)

two sheds said:


> My movements don't rely on any scene  .


Strong cup of coffee and first tab of the day is usually enough to set mine off.


----------



## cesare (Aug 14, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> No - anti-fascism is a movement - the squat scene is a 'scene'.


Anti-fascism is an anti-movement. It only exists because of fascism. It depends on it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 14, 2015)

cesare said:


> Anti-fascism is an anti-movement. It only exists because of fascism. It depends on it.


yeh but unlike fox hunters, who depend on the survival of foxes for their fun, anti-fascists - to the best of my knowledge - do not breed fascists to fight.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 14, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> No - anti-fascism is a movement - the squat scene is a 'scene'.


the squat scene as opposed to the social housing scene or privated rented scene?


----------



## cesare (Aug 14, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but unlike fox hunters, who depend on the survival of foxes for their fun, anti-fascists - to the best of my knowledge - do not breed fascists to fight.


They don't ride to hounds either.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 14, 2015)

You need some form of squatting when you work on your movements.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 14, 2015)

two sheds said:


> You need some form of squatting when you work on your movements.


(posting from wc) no, you can just sit it out.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 14, 2015)

"sit" did you say?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 14, 2015)

Clapton should play this lot in a lower league fantasy politcs cup http://www.dw.com/en/neo-nazi-football-team-ostelbien-to-be-kicked-out-of-local-league/a-18648170


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 14, 2015)

two sheds said:


> "sit" did you say?


----------



## two sheds (Aug 14, 2015)

i knew something wasn't quite right. 



/finally end to derail


----------



## cantsin (Aug 14, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Clapton should play this lot in a lower league fantasy politcs cup http://www.dw.com/en/neo-nazi-football-team-ostelbien-to-be-kicked-out-of-local-league/a-18648170



from 2.15 here :  

nasty pieces of shite


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 15, 2015)

Are the Tipton Boilers still going?


----------



## JimW (Aug 15, 2015)

Amalgamated with the Thunderbolts speedway team in 1987 IIRC.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 15, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Are the Tipton Boilers still going?



Alf Tupper was superb for them


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 15, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Alf Tupper was superb for them


Only as a temporary club member, though - too much of a maverick to be tied down too long


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 15, 2015)

What ever happene


DaveCinzano said:


> Only as a temporary club member, though - too much of a maverick to be tied down too long



I think it was their rejection of his   somewhat unorthodox , at the time, training method ( actually now standard in the Cheadlehighstreet Go fo Gold Sports Club) of carrying a back of coal on his back so he could run faster without it that caused the split.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 15, 2015)

Btw  what happended to the Renford Rejects? They were around the Lib dem movement  for a while but some of them could now  be involved in the anti fascist scene


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 15, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Roma's ultras are disgusting. What were you doing hanging around with them? They go round stabbing innocent spectators in the arse for no good reason.



All ASRoma ultras are the all same? They all use knives? There's no difference between FEDAYN and BISL? No difference betwern Padroni di Casa and FEDAYN? Interesting is rather factually incorrect view or Roma Ultras.


----------



## Nice one (Aug 15, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> What ever happene
> 
> 
> I think it was their rejection of his   somewhat unorthodox , at the time, training method ( actually now standard in the Cheadlehighstreet Go fo Gold Sports Club) of carrying a back of coal on his back so he could run faster without it that caused the split.



lightweight


----------



## Balbi (Aug 17, 2015)

Blimey.


----------



## BigMoaner (Aug 17, 2015)

cant read last bit


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> cant read last bit


"blimey"

get your specs on


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 17, 2015)

Balbi said:


> Blimey.



Werder Bremen by the looks of ut.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 17, 2015)

UY UTB INT, obviously


----------



## wurlycurly (Aug 17, 2015)

Fedayn said:


> Werder Bremen by the looks of ut.



Presumably Bremen are as yet unaware of Clapton's shameful attack on the Cowdenbeath boys.


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 17, 2015)

wurlycurly said:


> Presumably Bremen are as yet unaware of Clapton's shameful attack on the Cowdenbeath boys.



I wouldn't know either way.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 20, 2015)

fuck 'em


----------



## Reg Folder (Aug 20, 2015)

This is a bizarre thread.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 20, 2015)

Reg Folder said:


> This is a bizarre thread.



Did you join specially to tell us


----------



## Reg Folder (Aug 20, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Did you join specially to tell us


No.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 22, 2015)

Fuck 'em


----------



## Nice one (Aug 26, 2015)

reminder for anone going to the clapton one benefit gig this saturday it's been moved to the cock tavern. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



https://uniceone.wordpress.com/2015...te-the-wakes-benefit-night-london-sat-29-aug/


----------



## flypanam (Aug 26, 2015)

Fedayn said:


> All ASRoma ultras are the all same? They all use knives? There's no difference between FEDAYN and BISL? No difference betwern Padroni di Casa and FEDAYN? Interesting is rather factually incorrect view or Roma Ultras.



Maybe this might back up your point, an article in the Irish Times about an Ultra group with A soft spot for Ireland
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...-clan-at-the-heart-of-the-curva-sud-1.2325912


----------



## Becchio53 (Sep 23, 2015)

Photographs - Thamesmead



> Far-right hooligans linked to the English Defence League carrying out an unprovoked attack on left-wing football fans the Clapton Ultras in Thamesmead on Tuesday 4 August 2015. Send any information you have on people in the photographs to ldnantifascists@riseup.net


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 23, 2015)

Becchio53 said:


> Photographs - Thamesmead


if you know 'em shop 'em


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 23, 2015)

flypanam said:


> Maybe this might back up your point, an article in the Irish Times about an Ultra group with A soft spot for Ireland
> AS Roma’s Irish Clan at the heart of the Curva Sud



I know the fella being interviewed. Rarhwr right wing, FEDAYN boys I know don't like him.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2015)

Nice one said:


> reminder for anone going to the clapton one benefit gig this saturday it's been moved to the cock tavern.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


£10!!!


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 23, 2015)




----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 23, 2015)

editor said:


> £10!!!


This was a very successful and enjoable benefit gig for an anti-fascist Celtic fan who defended himself from attack by the clapton ultras. The proceeds assisted with his fine and flights to and from Scotland to attend court. I don't think £10 is a lot to support a fellow anti fascist and see top bands including The Wakes who travelled down from Glasgow for a one off gig in London. That is what I call true solidarity.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2015)

The Flying Pig said:


> This was a very successful and enjoable benefit gig for an anti-fascist Celtic fan who defended himself from attack by the clapton ultras. The proceeds assisted with his fine and flights to and from Scotland to attend court. I don't think £10 is a lot to support a fellow anti fascist and see top bands including The Wakes who travelled down from Glasgow for a one off gig in London. That is what I call true solidarity.


I'm glad you enjoyed it. I've never heard of The Wakes, unfortunately.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 23, 2015)

The Flying Pig said:


> This was a very successful and enjoable benefit gig for an anti-fascist Celtic fan who defended himself from attack by the clapton ultras. The proceeds assisted with his fine and flights to and from Scotland to attend court. I don't think £10 is a lot to support a fellow anti fascist and see top bands including The Wakes who travelled down from Glasgow for a one off gig in London. That is what I call true solidarity.


how much was raised?


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 23, 2015)

The Flying Pig said:


> This was a very successful and enjoable benefit gig for an anti-fascist Celtic fan who defended himself from attack by the clapton ultras. The proceeds assisted with his fine and flights to and from Scotland to attend court. I don't think £10 is a lot to support a fellow anti fascist and see top bands including The Wakes who travelled down from Glasgow for a one off gig in London. That is what I call true solidarity.



I'd already donated to the fund via framed's blog. I forgot about this as it's buried in a thread but if it was a weekend the chances are I wouldn't have been able to make it.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 23, 2015)

The Wakes!


----------



## treelover (Sep 23, 2015)

Looks good


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Sep 23, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I did fail English at school.  Let's reword this:
> 
> Why bother being a 'feminist male' when anarchism deals with most of these issues?



Im not sure its right to say that anachism encompasses feminism in its entierity. Im no expert on political theory, but im pretty sure that there are day to day issues that anarchism doesnt and cant address. An obvious example seems to be a lack of female representation in upper management; a political philosophy which intrinsically rejects the idea of leadership can surely not be able to address this issue, yet it is a concern for many feminists. 

And many feminists (male or female) do not embrace anarchist ideals. 

Also, lots of women seem to suggest that anarchist movements are disfunctional when it comes to gender issues.

I think its generally useful to keep distinct meanings for different words and concepts, rather than diluting and bluring the lines.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 23, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Im not sure its right to say that anachism encompasses feminism in its entierity. Im no expert on political theory, but im pretty sure that there are day to day issues that anarchism doesnt and cant address. An obvious example seems to be a lack of female representation in upper management; a political philosophy which intrinsically rejects the idea of leadership can surely not be able to address this issue, yet it is a concern for many feminists.
> 
> And many feminists (male or female) do not embrace anarchist ideals.
> 
> ...



Anarchism wouldn't argue for more women to be in the board room as a strategy for egalitarianism. Funnily enough, neither would most feminists afaik. Your second points states women and not feminists. Your last point I'd agree with.
Anarchism obviously doesn't do what it says on the tin otherwise there wouldn't be feminism.

But if you read the post you responded to again, I was talking about men and not women.


----------



## LiamO (Sep 23, 2015)

"These hands fought the Fascists, at Jarama in Spain..."

They do a Clapton Ultras version too. It goes...

"These hands held a lollipop, while I spat on the Oiks"


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 24, 2015)

" these hands, held a can of polish lager ,
Then threw it at some Celtic fans, then made a fist and tried to punch them,
Then dialled up the cops, and pointed at them,
Then pressed buttons to crow about it on Facebook,
These hands..are dirty hands ..and not through hard work "


----------



## comrade spurski (Sep 24, 2015)

poptyping said:


> The icon doesn't say "I'm a feminist" though does it.
> 
> Out of interest does the same go for white people who say they are anti racism?


Wrong analogy...no one has said they are uncomfortable with men saying they are anti sexist.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 5, 2016)

The Ultras are getting themselves in the Spotlight again by outing singer of band Crown Court as a fascist - something which both he and friends of his strongly deny. He's now made a counter statement saying he's been attacked twice by the Ultras and now they're trying to smear his character. All exciting stuff.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 5, 2016)

> How do we feel about this:
> 
> Crown court offers no sanctuary for extreme political ideals or intolerance of any kind. Within our own band we are of multiple ethnicities and backgrounds. The music is ours and the scene where we belong accepts us.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The Ultras are getting themselves in the Spotlight again by outing singer of band Crown Court as a fascist - something which both he and friends of his strongly deny. He's now made a counter statement saying he's been attacked twice by the Ultras and now they're trying to smear his character. All exciting stuff.


Oh this will end well


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 5, 2016)

And this is the dossier doing the rounds - presumably put together by the Clapton Ultras.

Crown Court lead singer Trevor Taylor's neo-Nazi and fascist links

The Jury's out regarding Crown Court. Pun obviously intended.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 5, 2016)

these idiots need to crawl back under their rock.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 5, 2016)

Another pun, good one.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And this is the dossier doing the rounds - presumably put together by the Clapton Ultras.
> 
> Crown Court lead singer Trevor Taylor's neo-Nazi and fascist links
> 
> The Jury's out regarding Crown Court. Pun obviously intended.


There is quite a bit there which yer man would have to refute. And fash bands do have a history of legalish names, e.g. white law. Maybe the Ultras are right on this.

E2A maybe.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 5, 2016)

Fingers posted yer man's rebuttal.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Fingers posted yer man's rebuttal.


Ta, missed that.

Looks a bit fucked up


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 5, 2016)

What British person has ever refered themselves as being a 'Brit' outside of tabloid land?


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 5, 2016)

oh.  you're back...


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 5, 2016)

Anti-fascist crew PRM? Who they?


----------



## k12m (Sep 9, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And this is the dossier doing the rounds - presumably put together by the Clapton Ultras.
> 
> Crown Court lead singer Trevor Taylor's neo-Nazi and fascist links
> 
> The Jury's out regarding Crown Court. Pun obviously intended.



This was not put together by Clapton Ultras.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 9, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> What British person has ever refered themselves as being a 'Brit' outside of tabloid land?


there is a bbc brit


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 9, 2016)

k12m said:


> This was not put together by Clapton Ultras.


who put it together then?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 9, 2016)

It's taken five days but are we finally about to have kick off?


----------



## k12m (Sep 9, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> who put it together then?


I know Clapton Ultras didn't.
I don't care about the rest of the story and I don't want to discuss the content of that post.



Magnus McGinty said:


> It's taken five days but are we finally about to have kick off?


No kick off, only facts from me so I am sorry but you have to find other ways to get  entertained.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 9, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> who put it together then?



Not clapton.

You should know better.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

k12m said:


> I know Clapton Ultras didn't.
> I don't care about the rest of the story and I don't want to discuss the content of that post.
> 
> 
> No kick off, only facts from me so I am sorry but you have to find other ways to get  entertained.



Whether they did or didnt, they're still lowlife touting cunts.

And no mistake

Squire


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Not clapton.
> 
> You should know better.


Perhaps you could outline how *you* know it's not cu


----------



## k12m (Sep 10, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Whether they did or didnt, they're still lowlife touting cunts.
> 
> And no mistake
> 
> Squire


Wow you're cool!



Pickman's model said:


> Perhaps you could outline how *you* know it's not cu


Because it's not posted on any channels of cu, nobody of US put it together and I am part of cu.
Done.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

k12m said:


> Because it's not posted on any channels of cu, nobody of US put it together and I am part of cu.
> Done.


Did you see I was asking someone else a question, not you?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

k12m said:


> This was not put together by Clapton Ultras.


Can you confirm no one in or associated with clapton Ultras has claimed yer man's a fascist and/or attacked him?


----------



## Ole (Sep 10, 2016)

"Clapton Ultras" ffs


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 10, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Whether they did or didnt, they're still lowlife touting cunts.
> 
> And no mistake
> 
> Squire



You haven't got the foggiest about this or about the other incident.


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> You haven't got the foggiest about this or about the other incident.



Lots and lots of people are aware of the 'other incident'. I'm a perfect example. I used to go to the odd Clapton game, now I don't. That's what happens when you attack anti-fascists and then snitch on one of them.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 10, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> Lots and lots of people are aware of the 'other incident'. I'm a perfect example. I used to go to the odd Clapton game, now I don't. That's what happens when you attack anti-fascists and then snitch on one of them.


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


>


It's maybe a facepalm issue for you but it isn't for me.


----------



## cantsin (Sep 10, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Can you confirm no one in or associated with clapton Ultras has claimed yer man's a fascist and/or attacked him?



for those of us not necc. fully up to speed here, but preparing to dive into the inevitable melee regardless, can you confirm  whether we think  CU have / or haven't "claimed yer man's a fascist and/or attacked him " ? Or they just didn't write the rebuttal ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

cantsin said:


> for those of us not necc. fully up to speed here, but preparing to dive into the inevitable melee regardless, can you confirm  whether we think  CU have / or haven't "claimed yer man's a fascist and/or attacked him " ? Or they just didn't write the rebuttal ?


yer man's apparently claimed to have been attacked by cu. it would be nice if cu could simply state for the record that they have no beef with yer man and have not attacked him and maybe then we could lay this thread to the rest it so richly deserves.

k12m


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 10, 2016)

k12m said:


> No kick off, only facts from me so I am sorry but you have to find other ways to get  entertained.



Thanks for the apology but I'm sure you'll be entertaining enough.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> You haven't got the foggiest about this or about the other incident.



The other incident I actually watched happen on video ? Of which there were 2 very lengthy threads on with commentary from people who were there ?


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 10, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> The other incident I actually watched happen on video ? Of which there were 2 very lengthy threads on with commentary from people who were there ?


Clapton like to pretend the 'other incident' never happened, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> Clapton like to pretend the 'other incident' never happened, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


if the other incident is the other incident i am thinking of, it caused no end of kerfuffle including some i ended up helping deal with


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> Clapton like to pretend the 'other incident' never happened, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.



So they've actually gone from openly boasting and crowing about it all over the internet to denying it ever happened ? Fuck me .
A testament to the mind altering qualities of polish lager ....or just brass necked bullshitters insulting everyone's intelligence .


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> kerfuffle



I'm of the opinion it was grave enough to warrant brouhaha status rather than mere kerfuffle .


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> I'm of the opinion it was grave enough to warrant brouhaha status rather than mere kerfuffle .


i was understating matters


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i was understating matters



Diplomacy, I understand .

D'accord . Naturellement .


----------



## k12m (Sep 10, 2016)

Who said the other incident never happened and where? I see a lot of stuff has been made up here, I followed the threads in here about it and there was a lot of bullshit. But I am not going to talk about it, not because I am escaping but because I don't want to get into that vortex of shit thrown around by people with a clear political agenda. Not playing your game.

I have no idea why he's saying he got attacked by cu and I am 100% sure he wasn't attacked by cu.
Sorry I misread your message Pickman's model.
I can still confirm we've for nothing to do with that post.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

k12m said:


> that vortex of shit thrown around by* people with a clear political agenda*.
> 
> .



Wut ???????

This "clear political agenda " is a bit unclear to me. Could you perhaps clarify what that political agenda is that the vortex of shit throwers (sic) are engaged in ?


----------



## k12m (Sep 10, 2016)

No. Have fun.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

There's a fucking surprise

And no mistake

Smear and run .


----------



## two sheds (Sep 10, 2016)

k12m said:


> Who said the other incident never happened and where? I see a lot of stuff has been made up here, I followed the threads in here about it and there was a lot of bullshit. But I am not going to talk about it, not because I am escaping but because I don't want to get into that vortex of shit thrown around by people with a clear political agenda. Not playing your game.
> 
> I have no idea why he's saying he got attacked by cu and I am 100% sure he wasn't attacked by cu.
> Sorry I misread your message Pickman's model.
> I can still confirm we've for nothing to do with that post.



I don't have any agenda k12m, I know very little about this but have a deal of sympathy with the ultras aims as declared. Is there a web page that sets out the cu response to the other incident?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 10, 2016)

Of course those who oppose supposed antifascists attacking other antifascists have a political agenda when calling that shit out. The agenda being it's unacceptable. It's the ones who shrug that you have to worry about.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

two sheds said:


> I don't have any agenda k12m, I know very little about this but have a deal of sympathy with the ultras aims as declared. Is there a web page that sets out the cu response to the other incident?



Their despicable lying statement is still up on their Facebook page. Still standing over their cowardly attack on those Celtic fans . The video that disproves it is still up on YouTube .


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 10, 2016)

k12m said:


> Who said the other incident never happened and where? I see a lot of stuff has been made up here, I followed the threads in here about it and there was a lot of bullshit. But I am not going to talk about it, not because I am escaping but because I don't want to get into that vortex of shit thrown around by people with a clear political agenda. Not playing your game.
> 
> I have no idea why he's saying he got attacked by cu and I am 100% sure he wasn't attacked by cu.
> Sorry I misread your message Pickman's model.
> I can still confirm we've for nothing to do with that post.





Casually Red said:


> Their despicable lying statement is still up on their Facebook page. Still standing over their cowardly attack on those Celtic fans . The video that disproves it is still up on YouTube .



The whole thing has been going on for too long. Clapton should apologise to the Celtic/Cowdenbeath boys, help with the legal fees for the guy who was snitched on and, frankly, stop acting like fascists.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 10, 2016)

What evidence do you have that it was a CU member that grassed?


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> What evidence do you have that it was a CU member that grassed?



I've heard nothing to suggest otherwise. Do you believe the tout wasn't one of the Clapton Ultras?


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> What evidence do you have that it was a CU member that grassed?



Are you suggesting some random members of the public just happened to pile in on the Clapton Ultras behalf during their mob assault on the visiting Celtic fans ? A passing rangers supporter just out for a walk perhaps ?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 10, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> A passing rangers supporter just out for a walk perhaps ?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 10, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> I've heard nothing to suggest otherwise. Do you believe the tout wasn't one of the Clapton Ultras?



From what I heard it was some random fan not a Clapton Ultra.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> From what I heard it was some random fan not a Clapton Ultra.



A random Clapton fan ...must be thousands of them..with his own non specific, wholly unrelated grudge against Steve Hedley et al ??. A pissed off manager with London underground ? A disgruntled share holder with Virgin Rail ?


----------



## Ole (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> From what I heard it was some random fan not a Clapton Ultra.


Dear God. 

What sets the 'random fans' of Clapton apart from the Clapton Ultras? Is there a uniform? An initiation ritual? How many members deep is 'the CU'?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 10, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> A random Clapton fan ...must be thousands of them..with his own non specific, wholly unrelated grudge against Steve Hedley et al ??. A pissed off manager with London underground ? A disgruntled share holder with Virgin Rail ?



It was a drunken row. I doubt many really knew who was who and what was going on in all corners.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

Ole said:


> Dear God.
> 
> What sets the 'random fans' of Clapton apart from the Clapton Ultras? Is there a uniform? An initiation ritual? How many members deep is 'the CU'?



Come on now. They're bound to have some sort of official member card and ID programme for eventualities such as this . Probably doesn't even like Polish lager. A bitter man or some such .


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> It was a drunken row. I doubt many really knew who was who and what was going on in all corners.



Everybody who knows anything about football knows Celtic fans are overwhelmingly left-leaning and anti-racist. They were in London to help with local food banks etc and didn't deserve the kind of 'hospitality' that was shamefully visited on them.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> It was a drunken row. I doubt many really knew who was who and what was going on in all corners.



Not according to that statement they put up congratulating themselves for their principled stand in the fight against abusers, and the thug friends and hangers on of abusers . Who attacked them in an unprovoked outburst of thuggery .Which is still up .

That is a rotten lie from a bunch of rotten liars . Why should anyone believe they're telling the truth about anything else ?


----------



## Ole (Sep 10, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Come on now. They're bound to have some sort of official member card and ID programme for eventualities such as this . Probably doesn't even like Polish lager. A bitter man or some such .


The Referendum must have sorted the men from the boys at Clapton. Imagine. EU flags all over the gaff. St George's flags drenched in European lager. Taunted.



wurlycurly said:


> Everybody who knows anything about football knows Celtic fans are overwhelmingly left-leaning and anti-racist. They were in London to help with local food banks etc and didn't deserve the kind of 'hospitality' that was shamefully visited on them.


I hear the CU are nawty bastards mate. They do what they want. Including grassing evidently.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> It was a drunken row. I doubt many really knew who was who and what was going on in all corners.


Do you mean you were pissed and not following events with the attention they merited?


----------



## cantsin (Sep 10, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> The other incident I actually watched happen on video ? Of which there were 2 very lengthy threads on with commentary from people who were there ?



" I actually watched on video " 

Righto


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

cantsin said:


> " I actually watched on video "
> 
> Righto



It's on fucking youtube


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 10, 2016)

Wasn't the real trouble makers Sisters Uncut?


----------



## cantsin (Sep 10, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> Everybody who knows anything about football knows Celtic fans are overwhelmingly left-leaning and anti-racist. They were in London to help with local food banks etc and didn't deserve the kind of 'hospitality' that was shamefully visited on them.



I don't think you'll find many, from any quarter, who'd disagree with that


----------



## cantsin (Sep 10, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> It's on fucking youtube



You're not really trying to say the video offers you / anyone else any kind of conclusive insight into what happened at the ground, let alone afterwards, and re: the grassing ?


----------



## cantsin (Sep 10, 2016)

Ole said:


> Dear God.
> 
> What sets the 'random fans' of Clapton apart from the Clapton Ultras? Is there a uniform? An initiation ritual? How many members deep is 'the CU'?



What sets any self identifying 'ultras' apart from the rest of the clubs fans , ( or 'firm' for that matter ? ) or are you sneering at the idea of 'ultras'  generally ?


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 10, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Wasn't the real trouble makers Sisters Uncut?



According to the Clapton Ultras official statement on their facebook page the trouble makers were the Celtic fans who went there with the specific intent of engaging in confrontation . Who behaved aggressively towards Clapton supporters and then attacked them . As regards SU , the CU statement claims those women who went to " confront " the Celtic fans were their own fans . And admits they emerged directly from their ranks prior to engaging in their confrontation. At which point they claim the Celtic fans attacked them .

So now these ones don't have official Clapton ultras ID cards either I take it .


----------



## Ole (Sep 10, 2016)

cantsin said:


> What sets any self identifying 'ultras' apart from the rest of the clubs fans , ( or 'firm' for that matter ? )


You tell me pal. What's the story at Clapton?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 10, 2016)

Ole said:


> What's the story at Clapton?


Mourning glory?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 10, 2016)

cantsin said:


> What sets any self identifying 'ultras' apart from the rest of the clubs fans



The willingness to throw either a live goat or a dead moped onto the visiting fans in the lower tier. While all bare-chested and stuff.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 10, 2016)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The willingness to throw either a live goat or a dead moped onto the visiting fans in the lower tier. While all bare-chested and stuff.



Goats are a Dulwich Hamlet thing. Nipple rubbing satanic goat worshippers, or something


----------



## cantsin (Sep 11, 2016)

Ole said:


> You tell me pal. What's the story at Clapton?



Goats / mopeds / ritualised nudity /  pyro etc


----------



## Ole (Sep 11, 2016)

cantsin said:


> Goats / mopeds / ritualised nudity /  pyro etc


So what you're saying is, you don't have to be crazy to be a Clapton Ultra - but it helps?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 11, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> According to the Clapton Ultras official statement on their facebook page the trouble makers were the Celtic fans who went there with the specific intent of engaging in confrontation . Who behaved aggressively towards Clapton supporters and then attacked them . As regards SU , the CU statement claims those women who went to " confront " the Celtic fans were their own fans . And admits they emerged directly from their ranks prior to engaging in their confrontation. At which point they claim the Celtic fans attacked them .
> 
> So now these ones don't have official Clapton ultras ID cards either I take it .



It's a bit sad that this is still the overwhelming 'anti fascist' issue for some on here. So important that they desperatley want to rake the coals of it over and over again. 

It'd be good if some of this energy went into supporting prisoners and defendants from the struggle. The Hero Of Dover


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 11, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> It's a bit sad that this is still the overwhelming 'anti fascist' issue for some on here. So important that they desperatley want to rake the coals of it over and over again.
> 
> It'd be good if some of this energy went into supporting prisoners and defendants from the struggle. The Hero Of Dover


It's the overwhelming ' anti fascist' issue for an overwhelming part of this thread discussing an assault by 'anti fascists' on anti fascists. 
There's another thread on Dover.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 11, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> What evidence do you have that it was a CU member that grassed?



They have an official membership?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 11, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They have an official membership?


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 11, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> It's a bit sad that this is still the overwhelming 'anti fascist' issue for some on here. So important that they desperatley want to rake the coals of it over and over again.
> 
> It'd be good if some of this energy went into supporting prisoners and defendants from the struggle. The Hero Of Dover



It'd be good if the Clapton bloody ultras took down that lying statement from their Facebook page which is a direct attack and rotten smear against the anti fascists they abused and physically attacked . While that remains we can only conclude they've fully stood over their actions and are proud of them . that's an active smear . It's still live . And anti fascists can only judge such things on their merits. They have none.

Fuck em


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 11, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


>


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 11, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> It was a drunken row. I doubt many really knew who was who and what was going on in all corners.


FFS you disingenuous cunt you know full well that wasn't a drunken row


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 11, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> FFS you disingenuous cunt you know full well that wasn't a drunken row



Have you ever been to a clapton match?


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 11, 2016)

I was at the fucking incident cuntybaws


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 11, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> I was at the fucking incident cuntybaws



Then you know full well nearly every cunt drinks there.....and by full time most people are drunk.


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 11, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Have you ever been to a clapton match?





DrRingDing said:


> Then you know full well nearly every cunt drinks there.....and by full time most people are drunk.



And I also know that this was not a drunken row and that the grass was one of your own


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 11, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> And I also know that this was not a drunken row and that the grass was one of your own



My own?


----------



## B.I.G (Sep 11, 2016)

Megabantz, love the fact you lot are a) still talking about this and b) love making unfounded accusations against each other


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> It was a drunken row. I doubt many really knew who was who and what was going on in all corners.


You only need a whiff of the barmaid's apron before you're one over the eight so you're hardly a reliable witness


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 11, 2016)




----------



## k12m (Sep 11, 2016)

Some people are so full of shit it is unbelievable.
Keep talking shit big boys.
My silence is a gift to them.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 11, 2016)

Unintelligible . Too much polish lager by the sounds of it .


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 11, 2016)

k12m said:


> Some people are so full of shit it is unbelievable.
> Keep talking shit big boys.
> My silence is a gift to them.



Apart from this non-silent interlude?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 11, 2016)




----------



## Red Sky (Sep 12, 2016)

The39thStep said:


> It's the overwhelming ' anti fascist' issue for an overwhelming part of this thread discussing an assault by 'anti fascists' on anti fascists.
> There's another thread on Dover.



It's a bit picky but this is actually a thread about the Thamesmead incident. There were two other threads about this shitstorm both of which got binned. Neither the Dover thread or the prisoner solidarity really get a lot of traffic. Still I'm sure you're busy working behind the scenes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> Some people are so full of shit it is unbelievable.
> Keep talking shit big boys.
> My silence is a gift to them.


Like the second volume of 'the equinox'


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 12, 2016)

Or a silent fart


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 12, 2016)

So this wasn't an organised action by CU. Seems it's just personal beef between two ppl... The guy from the band does seem to keep some rather poor company from reading that statement about him and from reading what his mates have been saying on fb.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 12, 2016)

poptyping said:


> So this wasn't an organised action by CU. Seems it's just personal beef between two ppl... The guy from the band does seem to keep some rather poor company from reading that statement about him and from reading what his mates have been saying on fb.


so the story is someone of dubious character is assaulted by someone who may or may not be from cu, cu disavow any knowledge of the dossier or the attack, yet if what's been written about yer man is true he is the sort of person who might legitimately expect a tap on the shoulder from anti-fascists.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 12, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> so the story is someone of dubious character is assaulted by someone who may or may not be from cu, cu disavow any knowledge of the dossier or the attack, yet if what's been written about yer man is true he is the sort of person who might legitimately expect a tap on the shoulder from anti-fascists.



Sounds like he is but then again I'd never heard of Trev until this thread. I also heard a random bystander who is definitely not part of CU was at the gig and got attacked by ppl on Trev's side. He had to have treatment at the hospital. By all accounts he's a gentle old man that just got started on for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Trev''s statement doesn't say anything about that though funnily enough. Nasty business.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 12, 2016)

Also i found it interesting that the incident was framed in Taylor's write up as being 'on match day' and about the other party turning up in Tottenham on said day as if that in itself is a provocative act. When to be a bit more fair about it, it was on a Saturday at a punk gig that has no obvious relationship, that I know of, to football or Tottenham Hotspur as a club. The gig just happened to be in Tottenham. This framing seems a bit odd to me.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

k12m said:


> I know Clapton Ultras didn't.
> I don't care about the rest of the story and I don't want to discuss the content of that post.
> 
> 
> No kick off, only facts from me so I am sorry but you have to find other ways to get  entertained.


Too busy attacking established anti fascists?


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

k12m said:


> I know Clapton Ultras didn't.
> I don't care about the rest of the story and I don't want to discuss the content of that post.
> 
> 
> No kick off, only facts from me so I am sorry but you have to find other ways to get  entertained.


Clapton don't do facts well at all.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> It's maybe a facepalm issue for you but it isn't for me.


only in embarrassment for their own actions.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

two sheds said:


> I don't have any agenda k12m, I know very little about this but have a deal of sympathy with the ultras aims as declared. Is there a web page that sets out the cu response to the other incident?


There was and it was a tissue of lies.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> It'd be good if the Clapton bloody ultras took down that lying statement from their Facebook page which is a direct attack and rotten smear against the anti fascists they abused and physically attacked . While that remains we can only conclude they've fully stood over their actions and are proud of them . that's an active smear . It's still live . And anti fascists can only judge such things on their merits. They have none.
> 
> Fuck em


I have to agree. Don't go cry baby bunting if the fash attack you CU lot. Your on yer own.


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> I have to agree. Don't go cry baby bunting if the fash attack you CU lot. Your on yer own.



Mate, Clapton are far too big and important to ever need help from anti-fascists (record attendance 761).


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> Mate, Clapton are far too big and important to ever need help from anti-fascists (record attendance 761).


Certainly  self important.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

poptyping said:


> So this wasn't an organised action by CU. Seems it's just personal beef between two ppl... The guy from the band does seem to keep some rather poor company from reading that statement about him and from reading what his mates have been saying on fb.


Ever since the shit debacle when one of the Hamlet Clapton crossover fans graduated to grassing an anti fascist you have popped up with inside info defending their actions. Do they not have their own spokesperson ?


----------



## Scutta (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Do they not have their own spokesperson ?



you answered your own question earlier.....



TopCat said:


> There was and it was a tissue of lies.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

Scutta said:


> you answered your own question earlier.....


No named person though?


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> No named person though?


You could try their solicitors- Snitch, Snitch & Tout.


----------



## Scutta (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> No named person though?


That was the point of your comment?
Oh, because you want to contact them? Apparently you can send them emails through the website.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Ever since the shit debacle when one of the Hamlet Clapton crossover fans graduated to grassing an anti fascist you have popped up with inside info defending their actions. Do they not have their own spokesperson ?



Er?? One of CU has said it weren't them on here. Ive not defended them here. Hardly inside info


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

I am just curious as to why they don't explain their actions here but have a convenient consistent unofficial spokesperson in poptyping? 

An excercise in plausible deniability perhaps? I would not want to contact them directly, I have no wish to be in contact with a group like that. Though their constant display of anti fascist banners at their matches (given what they have said and done) is risible at best and downright fucking offensive at worst.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Er?? One of CU has said it weren't them on here. Ive not defended them here. Hardly inside info


Any reasonable person reading this thread would conclude younhave consistently defended them throughout.


----------



## Scutta (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> I am just curious as to why they don't explain their actions here but have a convenient consistent unofficial spokesperson in poptyping?
> 
> An excercise in plausible deniability perhaps? I would not want to contact them directly, I have no wish to be in contact with a group like that. Though their constant display of anti fascist banners at their matches (given what they have said and done) is risible at best and downright fucking offensive at worst.



You mean poptyping doesnt share your opinion, or is providing information that doesnt fit your narrative so therefore they are an unofficial spokesperson? 

I thought this was a discussion board goddamit


----------



## Scutta (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Any reasonable person reading this thread would conclude younhave consistently defended them throughout.


any reasonable person reading this on here can understand EVERYONE posting has their own agenda, from what they have consistently posted throughout...


----------



## Scutta (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Though their constant display of anti fascist banners at their matches (given what they have said and done) is risible at best and downright fucking offensive at worst.


Because ALL who associate themselves with that NEVER put a foot wrong.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> I am just curious as to why they don't explain their actions here but have a convenient consistent unofficial spokesperson in poptyping?
> 
> An excercise in plausible deniability perhaps? I would not want to contact them directly, I have no wish to be in contact with a group like that. Though their constant display of anti fascist banners at their matches (given what they have said and done) is risible at best and downright fucking offensive at worst.



They have spoken on here. I'm not their spokesperson so fuck off with your insinuations.



TopCat said:


> Any reasonable person reading this thread would conclude younhave consistently defended them throughout.



No. I've mostly argued with an idiotic Dulwich fan on this thread. Anyone who has actually read the thread would see that.


----------



## Scutta (Sep 13, 2016)

The righteousness from all sides is amusing


----------



## two sheds (Sep 13, 2016)

Difficult for an outside observer - in the scheme of things anyone who comes up against fascists has my respect.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

CU are unrepentant as to their actions attacking visiting supportive anti fascists. The did it, they lied about it afterwards and they leave their lies up on the web besmirching very decent people. For shame.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 13, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Difficult for an outside observer - in the scheme of things anyone who comes up against fascists has my respect.



The guy from the band says he's not a fascist. He says his Dad is Jewish and he has black friends, who knows what to make of it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2016)

poptyping said:


> The guy from the band says he's not a fascist. He says his Dad is Jewish and he has black friends, who knows what to make of it.


it's a rum do and no mistake


----------



## Scutta (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> CU are unrepentant as to their actions attacking visiting supportive anti fascists. The did it, they lied about it afterwards and they leave their lies up on the web besmirching very decent people. For shame.


LOL


Scutta said:


> The righteousness from all sides is amusing


----------



## two sheds (Sep 13, 2016)

poptyping said:


> The guy from the band says he's not a fascist. He says his Dad is Jewish and he has black friends, who knows what to make of it.



Yes I was talking in general terms there.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 13, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Yes I was talking in general terms there.



I dont disagree with you.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Difficult for an outside observer - in the scheme of things anyone who comes up against fascists has my respect.



Martin Smith?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> Martin Smith?



Who is Martin Smith


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Who is Martin Smith



he's an anti-fascist who came up against facsists, not a particularly nice man politically or in his personal life. 

(big noise in swp, numerous women involved in the organisation were sexually abused by him)


----------



## two sheds (Sep 13, 2016)

Aha not him no he's an exception.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

Scutta said:


> LOL


It ain't a laughing matter for the Celtic lad who got a suspended sentence after your Hamlet / Clapton supporter grassed him after the row Clapton started.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 13, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Who is Martin Smith



Sex-case/rapist Swappie, whose anti-fascism and anti-racism was/is mostly of the speechifying variety, despite his attempts at a "street-fighting man" image.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Aha not him no he's an exception.





i was only being half-facetious, but far from being the exception he sets the industry standard in political acceptence of shit behaviour if you have enough status, are a dedicated virtue-signaller, and can claim moral superiority by being a_ militant anti-fascist_.

Your man who picked a fight with, and then grassed up, the scottish anti-fascist guy got away with his actions simply because he was amongst people look after their own (martin smith would have got away with it to, if it wasn't for that pesky secret recording). His actions were supported within London Anti-Fascists (as a group, as a constituted political body, as _anti-fascists_) and there is no conflict that arises from this, even when London anti-Facsists say, as a group, of Trev Taylor "He has attacked anti-fascists, that makes him a threat. simple". without a hint of fucking irony or self-awareness.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

[QUOTE="His actions were supported within London Anti-Fascists (as a group, as a constituted political body, as _anti-fascists_) [/QUOTE]

How so?


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> [QUOTE="His actions were supported within London Anti-Fascists (as a group, as a constituted political body, as _anti-fascists_)



How so?[/QUOTE]

Silence speaks volumes. _He attacked anti-fascists, that makes him a threat, simple._ Here was the response from London anti-fascists about scottish anti-fascists being attacked, getting grassed-up to the police and receiving a conviction for his troubles: silence.

Oh yeah south london anti-fascists came out in full support of the clapton ultras. Still part of the Anti-fascist network. Still riding that horse. Still not a problem etc .

Just to be fucking clear: did London Anti-Fascists condemn the attack on a group of anti-fascists which resulted in the arrest and conviction of one of those anti-fascists? In fact just to be extra clear, did _any_ anti-fascist group affiliated to AFN come out in public support of the Cowdenbeath flying squad comrade who got arrested and convicted? Did your group?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> His actions were supported within London Anti-Fascists (as a group, as a constituted political body, as _anti-fascists_) and there is no conflict that arises from this, even when London anti-Facsists say, as a group, of Trev Taylor "He has attacked anti-fascists, that makes him a threat. simple". without a hint of fucking irony or self-awareness.



Are you calling LAF grasses?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> How so?



Silence speaks volumes. _He attacked anti-fascists, that makes him a threat, simple._ Here was the response from London anti-fascists about scottish anti-fascists being attacked, getting grassed-up to the police and receiving a conviction for his troubles: silence.

Oh yeah south london anti-fascists came out in full support of the clapton ultras. Still part of the Anti-fascist network. Still riding that horse. Still not a problem etc .

Just to be fucking clear: did London Anti-Fascists condemn the attack on a group of anti-fascists which resulted in the arrest and conviction of one of those anti-fascists? In fact just to be extra clear, did _any_ anti-fascist group affiliated to AFN come out in public support of the Cowdenbeath flying squad comrade who got arrested and convicted? Did your group?[/QUOTE]

Silence isn't the same as support is it?


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> How so?



Silence speaks volumes. _He attacked anti-fascists, that makes him a threat, simple._ Here was the response from London anti-fascists about scottish anti-fascists being attacked, getting grassed-up to the police and receiving a conviction for his troubles: silence.

Oh yeah south london anti-fascists came out in full support of the clapton ultras. Still part of the Anti-fascist network. Still riding that horse. Still not a problem etc .

Just to be fucking clear: did London Anti-Fascists condemn the attack on a group of anti-fascists which resulted in the arrest and conviction of one of those anti-fascists? In fact just to be extra clear, did _any_ anti-fascist group affiliated to AFN come out in public support of the Cowdenbeath flying squad comrade who got arrested and convicted? Did your group?[/QUOTE]

This hits the nail on the head. The whole thing is unbefuckinglievable.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Are you calling LAF grasses?



 did you spill my pint?

London anti-fascists make decisions as a group, and those decisions (even if it is the decision to say/do nothing) reveal how that group views a particular set of circumstances. Who they are supposed to be grassing up in your scenario i dont know.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

One thing I really don't get about this flare-up. In a court case about assault one thing that is made very clear is the name of the assaultee and everyone else who made statements. Why can the Cowdenbeath/SH/RMT lot not take this name to Clapton Ultras and ask if he is one of theirs?


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Silence isn't the same as support is it?



let's simplify a little. Did _your _anti-fascist group have a formal position on the attack on a group of anti-fascists at a clapton game? Did you group discuss what happened? Was there a reason NOT to come out in public support of the cowdenbeath flying squad comrade who was attacked and arrested and convicted for being um, _an anti-fascist?_


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> let's simplify a little. Did _your _anti-fascist group have a formal position on the attack on a group of anti-fascists at a clapton game? Did you group discuss what happened? Was there a reason NOT to come out in public support of the cowdenbeath flying squad comrade who was attacked and arrested and convicted for being um, _an anti-fascist?_



No - we didn't. To be honest most of the people I work with wouldn't have heard about it (I'm not based in London). I appreciate that to you it's of enormous significance, from our perspective less so. What would be the point of us taking a 'formal position' on it?


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> One thing I really don't get about this flare-up. In a court case about assault one thing that is made very clear is the name of the assaultee and everyone else who made statements. Why can the Cowdenbeath/SH/RMT lot not take this name to Clapton Ultras and ask if he is one of theirs?



it's a dulwich hamlet fan, part of the rabble, awl member, open secret, everyone knows this. The point is and probably a bit tasteless of me to mention: once a dulwich hamlet fan _who just happened to be a clapton ultras game, _goes to the police and gives a statement, and acts as a witness/victim of a crime against another anti-fascist comrade, we move on to a whole different set of criteria. A criteria that involves tacit support, collusion, and without an express public disavowal, approval. Does this guy still go to dulwich hamlet/clapton ultras games? Is this guy still part of the AFN? Do you know this guy personally Red Sky? Does he come to your meetings? Does he have a formal position within AFN?  Do you consider him a comrade? etc etc


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> it's a dulwich hamlet fan, part of the rabble, awl member, open secret, everyone knows this. The point is and probably a bit tasteless of me to mention: once a dulwich hamlet fan _who just happened to be a clapton ultras game, _goes to the police and gives a statement, and acts as a witness/victim of a crime against another anti-fascist comrade, we move on to a whole different set of criteria. A criteria that involves tacit support, collusion, and without an express public disavowal, approval. Does this guy still go to dulwich hamlet/clapton ultras games? Is this guy still part of the AFN? Do you know this guy personally Red Sky? Does he come to your meetings? Does he have a formal position within AFN?  Do you consider him a comrade? etc etc


Dulwich Hamlet/Clapton Ultras fans are a bit of a closed book to me as is the AWL - realistically you'd have to give me a name and unless he's based where I live I doubt I'd know him. No I wouldn't want to work with most people who gave a statement to the police.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> it's a dulwich hamlet fan, part of the rabble, awl member, open secret, everyone knows this. The point is and probably a bit tasteless of me to mention: once a dulwich hamlet fan _who just happened to be a clapton ultras game, _goes to the police and gives a statement, and acts as a witness/victim of a crime against another anti-fascist comrade, we move on to a whole different set of criteria. A criteria that involves tacit support, collusion, and without an express public disavowal, approval. Does this guy still go to dulwich hamlet/clapton ultras games? Is this guy still part of the AFN? Do you know this guy personally Red Sky? Does he come to your meetings? Does he have a formal position within AFN?  Do you consider him a comrade? etc etc



AWL. 

Why do you think he's part of the AFN? What group are you accusing of harbouring him?


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> AWL.
> 
> Why do you think he's part of the AFN? What group are you accusing of harbouring him?



fuck knows mate. I'm asking. Devious little shit, feed him to the dogs, which you would assume, would be the anti-fascist way. Which would also be a respectful nod to our scottish anti-fascist comrades who have waving anti-fascist flags at football grounds, and getting stick for it, while we were still in nappies.

Serious question to you: you're out and about at an anti-fascist meeting/football match and someone points and says 'ere that's the person who grassed up a decent anti-fascist comrade to the police'. Your reaction would be.... suitably robust. Wouldn't it?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> fuck knows mate. I'm asking. Devious little shit, feed him to the dogs, which you would assume, would be the anti-fascist way. Which would also be a respectful nod to our scottish anti-fascist comrades who have waving anti-fascist flags at football grounds, and getting stick for it, while we were still in nappies.
> 
> Serious question to you: you're out and about at an anti-fascist meeting/football match and someone points and says 'ere that's the person who grassed up a decent anti-fascist comrade to the police'. Your reaction would be.... suitably robust. Wouldn't it?



I would not want that person to be in any group or affiliated group i belong to.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 13, 2016)

......not only that but the AWL should be outed as having a grass in its ranks.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Are you calling LAF grasses?


Lie down with dogs and get fleas.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> he's an anti-fascist who came up against facsists, not a particularly nice man politically or in his personal life.
> 
> (big noise in swp, numerous women involved in the organisation were sexually abused by him)



Like that for info. Not content, obvs.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

So many Clapton supporters are so enamoured with the scene they have helped create there that they play down that event, try to dismiss and diminish the implications. 
Foolish really because it will come on top for them with the fash eventually and then who will come to their aid?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> So many Clapton supporters are so enamoured with the scene they have helped create there that they play down that event, try to dismiss and diminish the implications.
> Foolish really because it will come on top for them with the fash eventually and then who will come to their aid?



It has come on top for them (see beginning of the thread) - they did alright apparently.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 13, 2016)

They got targeted by muppets. Wait till a firm come down.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> They got targeted by muppets. Wait till a firm come down.



Great tagline - when's the film out?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> They got targeted by muppets. Wait till a firm come down.



Seriously though, what firm? Chelsea Headhunters ? (last seen in Maidstone Services)


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 13, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> It has come on top for them (see beginning of the thread) - they did alright apparently.



They are playing Thamesmead in a match again soon


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

poptyping said:


> They are playing Thamesmead in a match again soon



Hopefully they'll take appropriate precautions.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> They got targeted by muppets. Wait till a firm come down.



Like the Chelsea Headhunters?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Lie down with dogs and get fleas.



I'm a bit puzzled by this - not so long ago you were urging people to get on LAF coaches to Dover. Did you think they were grasses then or have you changed your mind since?


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> His actions were supported within London Anti-Fascists.





Red Sky said:


> How so?



if his actions _weren't _supported, how do we, the general public, get to know that they weren't supported? Do you see. I'm not in your networks/part of your gang/hang around out within lefties/anarchists social scenes, i have no idea what your group thinks on a particular subject, especially a contentious/controversial subject like the grassing up of left-wing anti-fascist to the police.

I rely on what your group says publicly. If your group thinks the grassing up of left-wing anti-fascists is good/bad i'd like to know. Sets the tone. Who to trust etc etc

Your group doesn't think it's that important. That much i do now know. Sets the tone. Who to trust etc etc


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> if his actions _weren't _supported, how do we, the general public, get to know that they weren't supported? Do you see. I'm not in your networks/part of your gang/hang around out within lefties/anarchists social scenes, i have no idea what your group thinks on a particular subject, especially a contentious/controversial subject like the grassing up of left-wing anti-fascist to the police.
> 
> I rely on what your group says publicly. If your group thinks the grassing up of left-wing anti-fascists is good/bad i'd like to know. Sets the tone. Who to trust etc etc
> 
> Your group doesn't think it's that important. That much i do now know. Sets the tone. Who to trust etc etc



Why would we care if you trust us?


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Why would we care if you trust us?



you wouldn't. But you are desperate to get _the likes of us _on board [uneducated, unskilled white working class] and i'm the sort of clueless fucker who having experienced your world [posh twat middle class post-graduate arseholes] first hand and close up, wouldn't trust you to open a packet of crisps.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> you wouldn't. But you are desperate to get _the likes of us _on board [uneducated, unskilled white working class] and i'm the sort of clueless fucker who having experienced your world [posh twat middle class post-graduate arseholes] first hand and close up, wouldn't trust you to open a packet of crisps.



I'm not trying to get you on board with anything, so don't flatter yourself. You've never met me first hand or close up.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> I'm not trying to get you on board with anything, so don't flatter yourself. You've never met me first hand or close up.



nar you're right, your world, different world entirely


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 13, 2016)

Nice one said:


> nar you're right, your world, different world enitirely



A world you've constructed in your imagination.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 13, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> A world you've constructed in your imagination. My world, my cosseted ivory tower , where my butler brings me the lower league football results on a silver tray every morning with Lapsang Souchong or some such.



your anti-fascist world, posh lads, worthy, parading about, in black, surly [anything else about you doesnt really concern or interest me]. It's a world fraught with student politics that go beyond rites of passage, as such a little bit more daring and a little bit more working class-ish. I don't care, do what you do, pat yourself on the back for it, fair play, but when you or your group doesn't have the bollocks to come out and say publicly we support xxx of the cowdenbeath flying column for what happened to him, well then... life innit.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 14, 2016)

Nice one said:


> let's simplify a little. Did _your _anti-fascist group have a formal position on the attack on a group of anti-fascists at a clapton game? Did you group discuss what happened? Was there a reason NOT to come out in public support of the cowdenbeath flying squad comrade who was attacked and arrested and convicted for being um, _an anti-fascist?_



Let's simplify a little - Does your anti fascist group (or political faction, or just you) have a formal position on the imprisonment of Unite union rep Michelle Smith for defending herself in Dover against neo-Nazis? Did your group discuss what happened? Was there a reason NOT to come out in public support for the Mersey AFN comrade who was attacked and arrested and convicted for being um, _an anti-fascist?
_
Please remember that silence speaks volumes yadda,yadda,yadda.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 14, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Seriously though, what firm? Chelsea Headhunters ? (last seen in Maidstone Services)


That lot might be a bit shy given they were smashed to pieces by vegans, students and feminists.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 14, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Why would we care if you trust us?


We came to Dover alongside the CU lot. Meant we had to watch our backs as well as the fash at the front. Not good.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 14, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Let's simplify a little - Does your anti fascist group (or political faction, or just you) have a formal position on the imprisonment of Unite union rep Michelle Smith for defending herself in Dover against neo-Nazis? Did your group discuss what happened? Was there a reason NOT to come out in public support for the Mersey AFN comrade who was attacked and arrested and convicted for being um, _an anti-fascist?
> _
> Please remember that silence speaks volumes yadda,yadda,yadda.





I’m not sure the parallel works as a way of highlighting silence as a method of tacit approval/disapproval.

Perhaps a more analogous example would be: you, in your capacity as AFN twitter officer (south east region), get in contact with my group, the Shadwell Anti-fascists, asking if we would support Michelle Smith. You get no response despite our 2,043 twitter followers constantly declaring us the world’s best anti-fascist group.

You try again asking if we’d maybe sign a statement supporting Michelle. I respond to you be saying SHAF have more important things to do like fighting fascists online - trev taylor, and that woman who sells cupcakes. 

You ask me if my group would discuss it and perhaps come to a decision on whether to support MS or not. I say we wouldn’t discuss it in our group (this is a brilliant tactical approach on my part, it means we cannot be accused of not supporting her). You probably call it political cowardice, but you’d be wrong. 

You politely remind us Michelle is a genuine working class anti-fascist who was waving anti-fascist flags at football grounds while we were still in nappies. Perhaps I respond by saying yadda yadda, who knows.

You begin to wonder what is the problem with SHAF, what issues do they have with Michelle Smith and why they don’t at least acknowledge what happened to her was out of order, and you wonder if they have anything to do with the Soccer Anti-fascists, who immediately put out a statement saying anyone who was standing near Michelle Smith was de facto a wife beater, and probably Scottish, and therefore deserved everything they got.

You go the Reading conference still wondering why these people refused to say anything.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 14, 2016)

So is Trevor Taylor a fascist or not?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2016)

poptyping said:


> So is Trevor Taylor a fascist or not?


if it's wednesday then he's having a day off


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 14, 2016)

Nice one said:


> I’m not sure the parallel works as a way of highlighting silence as a method of tacit approval/disapproval.
> 
> Perhaps a more analogous example would be: you, in your capacity as AFN twitter officer (south east region), get in contact with my group, the Shadwell Anti-fascists, asking if we would support Michelle Smith. You get no response despite our 2,043 twitter followers constantly declaring us the world’s best anti-fascist group.
> 
> ...



That's a far more reasonable argument than just pointing at everyone and shouting 'posho'. I kind of lost track of who was who in your example but I don't think that the group I was in at the time was asked in any way to comment on or offer judgement on this whole event. _If _they were (and I don't do Twitter) I expect that the general reaction would have been that this was one of those clusterfucks that happen up in that there London. We occasionally get contacted by people who want us to back them in their disputes (saying that everyone in Freedom Bookshop is a racist for example). If we're not involved and weren't there then we don't take sides. To be honest it wasn't discussed. 

You're saying that you repeatedly tried to formally take the incident up with LAF but were continually rebuffed?

As a point of information was the Cowdenbeath guy fined or did he receive a suspended sentence? 

Did you go to the Reading conference?


----------



## Nice one (Sep 14, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> That's a far more reasonable argument than just pointing at everyone and shouting 'posho'. I kind of lost track of who was who in your example but I don't think that the group I was in at the time was asked in any way to comment on or offer judgement on this whole event. _If _they were (and I don't do Twitter) I expect that the general reaction would have been that this was one of those clusterfucks that happen up in that there London. We occasionally get contacted by people who want us to back them in their disputes* (saying that everyone in Freedom Bookshop is a racist for example).* If we're not involved and weren't there then we don't take sides. To be honest it wasn't discussed.
> 
> You're saying that you repeatedly tried to formally take the incident up with LAF but were continually rebuffed?
> 
> ...



that's an interesting reveal. Look up the phrase 'institutional racism' on your way back from the bookshop. Taking sides is also an interesting turn of phrase. If you were part of the meeting that agreed not to support a foreign immigrant woman who had been bullied harrased publicly humilitated, physically fucking intimidated by a group of white english men, if you were part of that meeting pal that pretended she didn't fucking exist, then i will happily meet up with you to discuss your fuckng anti-racist politics, if you get my drift.

You grubby fucking cunt.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 14, 2016)

Nice one said:


> You grubby fucking cunt.



The fucking state of anti-fascism today. Depressing.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 14, 2016)

Mr.Bishie said:


> The fucking state of anti-fascism today. Depressing.



I'm guessing nice one has little to do with anti-fascism today.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm guessing nice one has little to do with anti-fascism today.


not so much for some years now.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 14, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm guessing nice one has little to do with anti-fascism today.



I don't know or have never met Nice One, so can't comment, but i do know Red Sky, & he's certainly not a cunt.

Anti-fascism really needs to lay the class shit to bed.


----------



## cantsin (Sep 14, 2016)

haven't read all recent posts, and am obviously well behind here, but its confirmed it was not only a Dulwich, but an AWL ( anti BDS etc  )  ? 
bod ? 

Have never understood the original CU response to all this, but this is all puts it a v different light afaics ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2016)

cantsin said:


> haven't read all recent posts, and am obviously well behind here, but its confirmed it was not only a Dulwich, but an AWL ( anti BDS etc  )  ?
> bod ?
> 
> Have never understood the original CU response to all this, but this is all puts it a v different light afaics ?


let's just leave it at someone who shouldn't have been attacked was attacked, other people who were at the match who shouldn't gave been attacked were attacked, it was a bit of a clusterfuck and someone who was apparently a clapton fan dobbed a celtic fan into the police, and the bhoy got a fine. there was a benefit gig for yer man (the toutee, not the tout) to which cu had the option of contributing but to the best of my knowledge they did not avail themselves of the opportunity.


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 14, 2016)

I'm bloody curious who the Dulwich grass was now.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 14, 2016)

Nice one said:


> that's an interesting reveal. Look up the phrase 'institutional racism' on your way back from the bookshop. Taking sides is also an interesting turn of phrase. If you were part of the meeting that agreed not to support a foreign immigrant woman who had been bullied harrased publicly humilitated, physically fucking intimidated by a group of white english men, if you were part of that meeting pal that pretended she didn't fucking exist, then i will happily meet up with you to discuss your fuckng anti-racist politics, if you get my drift.
> 
> You grubby fucking cunt.



So you were involved in that? Bizarre co-incidence. As I said I was in a group that was on the periphery and got a load of e-mails and stuff about it. So no I wasn't part of any meeting about it.

If you want to meet up then PM me.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 14, 2016)

Don't hold ya breath


----------



## Nice one (Sep 14, 2016)

cantsin said:


> haven't read all recent posts, and am obviously well behind here, but its confirmed it was not only a Dulwich, but an AWL ( anti BDS etc  )  ?
> bod ?
> 
> Have never understood the original CU response to all this, but this is all puts it a v different light afaics ?



okay in absolute fairness to all those involved the awl member is the brother of the guy who grassed up you cowdenbeath anti-facsist. I don't know his political affiliations  (i'm only going off what's in the public domain). He does attend dulwich hamlet games at the rabble end, but then so do loads of other people. 

Don't start writing angry letters just yet.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 14, 2016)

A terrible mess.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 14, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> So you were involved in that? Bizarre co-incidence. As I said I was in a group that was on the periphery and got a load of e-mails and stuff about it. So no I wasn't part of any meeting about it.
> 
> If you want to meet up then PM me.



i would like to see those emails. if you are in central london, beginning of october i will pm you


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 14, 2016)

Nice one said:


> i would like to see those emails. if you are in central london, beginning of october i will pm you



They'd be buried (possibly literally) on the old SchNEWS hard drives. I might be at the Cable St commemoration.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 14, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> They'd be buried (possibly literally) on the old SchNEWS hard drives. I might be at the Cable St commemoration.



oct 9th? Ideal. As i say i think those emails are important. There is a lot that went on during that period that was very dark indeed.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 15, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm guessing nice one has little to do with anti-fascism today.


Lots of anti fascists have little to do with anti fascism today


----------



## albionism (Sep 15, 2016)

TopCat said:


> That lot might be a bit shy given they were smashed to pieces by vegans, students and feminists.


Are you implying vegans are soft?


----------



## JimW (Sep 15, 2016)

albionism said:


> Are you implying vegans are soft?
> View attachment 92568


Yeah, I'm a similar build. Two arms and two legs, anyway.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 15, 2016)

albionism said:


> Are you implying vegans are soft?
> View attachment 92568


They were top boys and girls. Thankfully the CU coach arrived and left immediately which was the right thing to do but it least meant we all knew we only had to fight forward.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 15, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> That's a far more reasonable argument than just pointing at everyone and shouting 'posho'. I kind of lost track of who was who in your example but I don't think that the group I was in at the time was asked in any way to comment on or offer judgement on this whole event. _If _they were (and I don't do Twitter) I expect that the general reaction would have been that this was one of those clusterfucks that happen up in that there London. We occasionally get contacted by people who want us to back them in their disputes (saying that everyone in Freedom Bookshop is a racist for example). If we're not involved and weren't there then we don't take sides. To be honest it wasn't discussed.
> 
> You're saying that you repeatedly tried to formally take the incident up with LAF but were continually rebuffed?
> 
> ...


The man got fined, suspended sentence and huge expenses. No contribution from london anti fascists, no support and they continue to stand with CU.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 15, 2016)

.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

I find amazing that it's clear to anybody how things went during the "infamous incident" and it's possible to understand reading between the lines of people attacking CU.
It's clear who called the police, when, for which reason...
Instead of focussing on that, the army of little puppies who had to defend the master kept blathering about CU responsibilities, creating tensions between CU and other groups.
I know what the big man says about CU and what he wishes for us, that doesn't sound really antifascist.
But it's ok, I personally preferred CU stayed silent rather than arguing with those barking angry big men. Pointless really.
I am only sincerely and honestly sorry for who was involved and got in trouble because somebody he/they didn't know decided to use them in their war games.

Btw, here is the only statement of CU which was ever released about the events, get to your own conclusions.

In December 2014, the RMT's assistant general secretary Steve Hedley (SH) was challenged after a Clapton game over an allegation against him of domestic violence (https://carolineleneghan.wordpress.com/) and his repeatedly aggressive and threatening attitude towards anyone raising this with him. A statement was later issued by the Clapton Ultras making it clear that he was not welcome to stand with us at future games.

On Saturday 28th March, however, SH turned up again, this time with a small group of allies who attempted to take control of the small enclosed Scaffold stand where the large group of passionate fans usually congregate. We see this as a deliberately confrontational act of 'vengeance' for the stance we took last year. When challenged, SH and his allies quickly became abusive. The group, notably wearing RMT armbands, had taped off the stand, began throwing beer and attempted to assault other fans. We decided collectively to move to a different part of the ground, where we continued our usual vocal support for the players. We are are incredibly proud that the overwhelming majority of people on the day joined us. At the end, however, a group of women fans who bravely went back to assert their unwillingness to put up with this kind of intimidation faced verbal abuse and several of them were physically assaulted.

It is important to remember that the Clapton Ultras have worked very hard to try to separate the idea of 'ultras' from unfair associations with football violence. The atmosphere we aim to create at Clapton is a celebration of the diversity and strength of our community that is both family-friendly and fun. We are passionate about supporting a non-league club with such a great history. This doesn't mean, however, that we will not defend our right to have an inclusive space that is free from intimidation and oppression in any form.

We are proud to support the women who took a stand against someone who simply wanted to use the club and its fans as part of a shameful personal vendetta. We reject the idea that, at a tiny county-level non-league football club, anyone has a absolute right to turn up and demand to become part of a community of fans, simply because of their supposed 'reputation' or a prominent position they might hold in public life.

It is unfortunate that some of those who stood with SH on the day had not been to Clapton before and were unaware of the background to our disagreement with him. We believe SH used them to support his tactic of dominating a space he knows he has no claim to. He is not a Clapton fan, and neither he nor anyone defending his actions are welcome to stand with us, at home or away.

We do acknowledge that there were problems on the day and that we need to improve the way we communicate and organise to ensure that Clapton is a safe, comfortable space for everyone who genuinely wants to come to support the team. We have spoken at length with the management of the club and they have assured us that those responsible for causing the confrontation will be refused entry if they return.

While these events were unpleasant for everyone, they allow us to make clear where we stand. At a non-league level, we want to create a real alternative to discrimination still prevalent within football - a fans' space that opposes racism, homophobia and the patriarchal aggression that research has shown leads to an increase in recorded domestic violence incidents on the days many football matches are played (http://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_378621_en.html). This is one of many reasons that led to our passion for creating our own safe, supportive community at Clapton FC and why we reiterate that the Clapton Ultras is anti-abuser and anti-sexist as well as anti-fascist.

Many Ultras have individually received numerous messages of solidarity from women who heard about what happened and from feminist organisations who have welcomed our stand. Whilst some of us have also received a torrent of abuse and threats online, we feel humbled by this support and that of the other Clapton fans.

This season's last Saturday home game is on 18th April. We encourage everyone to come down and help make it a special day by bringing friends, family and your banners and flags. We are also collecting donations on the day for a a local Newham domestic violence charity and urge you to contribute if you can.

If anyone has any concerns about the clear and unwavering position we have adopted or wishes to discuss this further, please see us in the Scaffold or email us.

In strength,

Clapton Ultras – Scaffold Brigada​


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> I find amazing that it's clear to anybody how things went during the "infamous incident" and it's possible to understand reading between the lines of people attacking CU.
> It's clear who called the police, when, for which reason...
> Instead of focussing on that, the army of little puppies who had to defend the master kept blathering about CU responsibilities, creating tensions between CU and other groups.
> I know what the big man says about CU and what he wishes for us, that doesn't sound really antifascist.
> ...


Normal self righteous tosh we have come to expect from the lifestyle liberal left


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

The39thStep said:


> Normal self righteous tosh we have come to expect from the lifestyle liberal left


:*


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2016)

The39thStep said:


> Normal self righteous tosh we have come to expect from the lifestyle liberal left



It's a bunch of self serving fucking lies too . They're scum , lying touting scum, and that statements an insult to the intelligence .


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 16, 2016)

How many of these 'ultras' actually live in Clapton you reckon?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2016)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> How many of these 'ultras' actually live in Clapton you reckon?


All of them


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> It's a bunch of self serving fucking lies too . They're scum , lying touting scum, and that statements an insult to the intelligence .


Keep lying big man, you're a broken record and everybody here understood you're just talking shit.



ItWillNeverWork said:


> How many of these 'ultras' actually live in Clapton you reckon?


Is that an issue?
You even don't know the team is not based in Clapton.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> I find amazing that it's clear to anybody how things went during the "infamous incident" and it's possible to understand reading between the lines of people attacking CU.
> It's clear who called the police, when, for which reason...
> Instead of focussing on that, the army of little puppies who had to defend the master kept blathering about CU responsibilities, creating tensions between CU and other groups.
> I know what the big man says about CU and what he wishes for us, that doesn't sound really antifascist.
> ...


I like the 'millions of PMs of support' in there. But the claims about cu 'we aren't associated with football violence' imo undermined by a) the scuffling, and b) the Brigada bit. Unless both are meant to be ironic. Cu claim to be up for discussing this matter but tbh you seem remarkably reticent. Maybe sh gets pissed off when people seek to make capital out of an incident where only he and cl know what happened, and it's noticeable you're not entirely happy by it being raised. You don't need to be four square behind sh to see this sorry incident as rather a blot on cu's image.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> I like the 'millions of PMs of support' in there. But the claims about cu 'we aren't associated with football violence' imo undermined by a) the scuffling, and b) the Brigada bit. Unless both are meant to be ironic. Cu claim to be up for discussing this matter but tbh you seem remarkably reticent. Maybe sh gets pissed off when people seek to make capital out of an incident where only he and cl know what happened, and it's noticeable you're not entirely happy by it being raised. You don't need to be four square behind sh to see this sorry incident as rather a blot on cu's image.


Really?
Seriously?
I'm glad you read only half of it.
So you want to dismiss the fact people stood on our end with RMT armbands (I swear on the life of my mother I've seen them) and i even challenged some people wearing them asking why. Some of the guests who came to visit for the game had no idea "I was given it by somebody".
Who wanted to prove his point and do a show of force?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Really?
> Seriously?
> I'm glad you read only half of it.
> So you want to dismiss the fact people stood on our end with RMT armbands (I swear on the life of my mother I've seen them) and i even challenged some people wearing them asking why. Some of the guests who came to visit for the game had no idea "I was given it by somebody".
> Who wanted to prove his point and do a show of force?


I read it all. It is not wholly consistent with what you've said. And i've never trusted people who swear on the lives of relatives.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> I read it all. It is not wholly consistent with what you've said. And i've never trusted people who swear on the lives of relatives.


What's not consistent then?
You basically decided to believe somebody who wants to defend SH and maybe wasn't even therw rather than me who I was there on the day and i spoke to several people?
Fair enough. That's exactly what I meant in one of my previous posts about having a political agenda and throwing shit only to stick to it.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Is that an issue?



Not for me it's not. I couldn't give a shit about people kicking a bag of wind and leather about the place on a rainy saturday. Whatever tickles a person's fancy.



> You even don't know the team is not based in Clapton.



Nope. Couldn't care less either. The point I was making was that these 'ultras' are clearly as uninterested in football as I am. From where I'm standing it looks like a playground for posho students to play at being 'authentic'. Apparently all working class people love a bit football violence. It's pathetic.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Not for me it's not. I couldn't give a shit about people kicking a bag of wind and leather about the place on a rainy saturday. Whatever tickles a person's fancy.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Couldn't care less either. The point I was making was that these 'ultras' are clearly as uninterested in football as I am. From where I'm standing it looks like a playground for posho students to play at being 'authentic'. Apparently all working class people love a bit football violence. It's pathetic.


So you're not interested in football, you probably have never been, never met any of cu but still you have an opinion.
That is great. The fact you have a mouth doesn't mean you're obliged to use it either.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 16, 2016)

Ooooh look! They've got a guardian article on them.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 16, 2016)

The Guardian said:
			
		

> An east London team who once had crowds of fewer than 50 are now getting 10 times that number with a new following from all over the world, and there is a political message to go with the football



Sudden surge in love of football amongst the hipster community I see.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Ooooh look! They've got a guardian article on them.


Same for Dulwich.
But we also got invited ad the international Antifa Tournament by Sankt Pauli ultras, got contacted by a lot of comrades and other groups from all around the country and the world, did a lot if work for local association and charities...
But yes, you just care about the fact an article on the guardian exists.
What a smart detective you are


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Sudden surge in love of football amongst the hipster community I see.


Is it because maybe we managed to create a space where people can finally feel welcome (apart from women abusers and their friends), can enjoy football, do some work for the community and not being obliged to pay crazy amount of money for games?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Is it because maybe we managed to create a space where people can finally feel welcome (apart from women abusers and their friends), can enjoy football, do some work for the community and not being obliged to pay crazy amount of money for games?



No. And you haven't. On the odd occasion I've ever been to a non-league game it's been to get out the house for a relaxing pie and some light entertainment. I wouldn't step near a club that has a reputation for agro though. Doesn't sound too welcoming.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> What's not consistent then?
> You basically decided to believe somebody who wants to defend SH and maybe wasn't even therw rather than me who I was there on the day and i spoke to several people?
> Fair enough. That's exactly what I meant in one of my previous posts about having a political agenda and throwing shit only to stick to it.


I know people from cu who were there on the day. I know people from London af. I used to see cl frequently and have worked with sh in the past. So I know something of the principals in this story. And I cannot say that I know sh injured cl, it could have gone down the way he says or the way she says. Yet you claim to know better than me what happened. I would trust bourgeois justice before your kangaroo court. You said above everything happened after the match, yet the cu statement makes clear there'd been handbags earlier in the afternoon and after an interval cu or *their* "allies" going back and instigating a second incident. You did not mention the provocation there had been earlier in the day. I don't choose to believe other people, I don't even choose to disbelieve you. You simply make it impossible to believe your version of events, especially when any deviation from your version sees me condemned as a dupe.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> No. And you haven't. On the odd occasion I've ever been to a non-league game it's been to get out the house for a relaxing pie and some light entertainment. I wouldn't step near a club that has a reputation for agro though. Doesn't sound too welcoming.


You have no idea who you're talking about then, it's clear.
Seriously: come to a game, I am happy to show you what we've done, talk about the activities we promote and give you a chance to meet some of these dangerous aggro posh students (it seems this is what you think we are, strange mix)


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> No. And you haven't. On the odd occasion I've ever been to a non-league game it's been to get out the house for a relaxing pie and some light entertainment. I wouldn't step near a club that has a reputation for agro though. Doesn't sound too welcoming.



Relaxing pie


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 16, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Relaxing pie



Best sort.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> I know people from cu who were there on the day. I know people from London af. I used to see cl frequently and have worked with sh in the past. So I know something of the principals in this story. And I cannot say that I know sh injured cl, it could have gone down the way he says or the way she says. Yet you claim to know better than me what happened. I would trust bourgeois justice before your kangaroo court. You said above everything happened after the match, yet the cu statement makes clear there'd been handbags earlier in the afternoon and after an interval cu or *their* "allies" going back and instigating a second incident. You did not mention the provocation there had been earlier in the day. I don't choose to believe other people, I don't even choose to disbelieve you. You simply make it impossible to believe your version of events, especially when any deviation from your version sees me condemned as a dupe.


OK really clear and easy, don't want to fall in the trap of going in circles ending up saying nothing.
Which provocation had been there in the day?
The statement mentions what cu were involved in.
The idiot who provoked the Celtic lot is probably the same who grassed them after an incident in which no cu were involved happened AFTER the game, OUTSIDE the ground.
I discovered about it from this forum, reading the posts of non cu people attacking cu, funny enough.
What is the version of the events then?
I had beers thrown at me when I tried to speak quietly with who I've seen being a bit of a dick with armbands and "laddish" attitude at the beginning of the game.
Also I want to say something really clearly: if I would have noticed what the little prick did to the Celtic fans trying to piss them off during the game, I would have taken him and left him in their hands to sort him out with no problems.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> OK really clear and easy, don't want to fall in the trap of going in circles ending up saying nothing.
> Which provocation had been there in the day?
> The statement mentions what cu were involved in.
> The idiot who provoked the Celtic lot is probably the same who grassed them after an incident in which no cu were involved happened AFTER the game, OUTSIDE the ground.
> ...


"when challenged sh and his allies quickly became abusive". Yet you say cu already saw his getting there early and choosing somewhere cu wanted to stand was seen as a provocation. There's no mention in the statement of "we tried to calm it down" but a lot of challenging


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> "when challenged sh and his allies quickly became abusive". Yet you say cu already saw his getting there early and choosing somewhere cu wanted to stand was seen as a provocation. There's no mention in the statement of "we tried to calm it down" but a lot of challenging


As you can tell I am not a native English speaker, but for what I understand "challenging" and "throwing beers" are a bit different.
There were several people who tried to explain the cu reasons to the sh lot. We only got what i call the "turkey breas walk", beers thrown ar us and several insults.
As the statement says we decided to walk away and we did the right thing at that point of the game.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> OK really clear and easy, don't want to fall in the trap of going in circles ending up saying nothing.
> Which provocation had been there in the day?
> The statement mentions what cu were involved in.
> The idiot who provoked the Celtic lot is probably the same who grassed them after an incident in which no cu were involved happened AFTER the game, OUTSIDE the ground.
> ...



The kid that tried and failed to steal a flag?


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

poptyping said:


> The kid that tried and failed to steal a flag?


Him.
Smart funny kid he is.
Never seen anymore after his show that day, and that's better like this probably...


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> As you can tell I am not a native English speaker, but for what I understand "challenging" and "throwing beers" are a bit different.
> There were several people who tried to explain the cu reasons to the sh lot. We only got what i call the "turkey breas walk", beers thrown ar us and several insults.
> As the statement says we decided to walk away and we did the right thing at that point of the game.


No, I couldn't tell you're not a native English speaker. According to the cu statement 1) challenging then 2) abuse and beer. You seem to be saying the cu statement contains at least one error.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Him.
> Smart funny kid he is.
> Never seen anymore after his show that day, and that's better like this probably...



Idiotic thing to do. Sounds like he got his comeuppance and a bit more.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> No, I couldn't tell you're not a native English speaker. According to the cu statement 1) challenging then 2) abuse and beer. You seem to be saying the cu statement contains at least one error.


What should have the statement said?
I am not sure I understood what you meant

PS I take the fact you couldn't tell I am not native as a compliment btw


----------



## JimW (Sep 16, 2016)

What I don't get is why, even if it went down exactly as CU claim, they don't seem to have offered any solidarity to the Scots lad caught in the crossfire. Or have I missed that?


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

JimW said:


> What I don't get is why, even if it went down exactly as CU claim, they don't seem to have offered any solidarity to the Scots lad caught in the crossfire. Or have I missed that?


We tried explaining, getting in touch, discussing and all we've got was insults and accusations.
Once I found out (and others too) the man was in court, whatever we would have done it would have been wrong.
I am wondering if they would have even accepted any money for example.


----------



## JimW (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> We tried explaining, getting in touch, discussing and all we've got was insults and accusations.
> Once I found out (and others too) the man was in court, whatever we would have done it would have been wrong.
> I am wondering if they would have even accepted any money for example.


I'd have hoped you'd have had a whip-round whatever the state of dialogue, then even if rejected could have gone to a good cause in lieu. 
Must admit I'm tending to believe the negative account of your (CU that is) behaviour in this but obviously wasn't there and I don't know any of the principals other than online.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> What should have the statement said?
> I am not sure I understood what you meant
> 
> PS I take the fact you couldn't tell I am not native as a compliment btw


your account should be the same as the statement. where there is variation it undermines belief in the official line.

anyway i have to flee the country so we shall return to this anon.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> We tried explaining, getting in touch, discussing and all we've got was insults and accusations.
> Once I found out (and others too) the man was in court, whatever we would have done it would have been wrong.
> I am wondering if they would have even accepted any money for example.



What it is mon, right, is you've kind of styled yourselves as a bit of a firm. And what that mostly consists of seems to be blog posts and denunciations. And the thing is, it's fine to drink lager and watch football (we all like that) and it's fine to be obsessed with blog posts and denunciations (we don't mind a bit of that now and again either). But if you combine the two, try to pass them off as legitimate political activity, and throw in this football firm stuff, it's a bit annoying and it makes it hard for people to want to seriously engage with you. You've got to understand, if a football firm doesn't want someone to stand with them, they don't put out a statement online. Nobody does that. 



Nobody's saying they're on SH's side you understand. I'm sure some of his friends have been very insulting and accusing of you and I'm sure there are some half truths on their side too. But when you go on and on about how many pms of support you've got, you look stupid.

Why don't you just carry on watching the football and enjoy yourselves instead of ruining all the fun?


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> What's not consistent then?
> You basically decided to believe somebody who wants to defend SH and maybe wasn't even therw rather than me who I was there on the day and i spoke to several people?
> Fair enough. That's exactly what I meant in one of my previous posts about having a political agenda and throwing shit only to stick to it.


You're one of the Italian lads aren't you ? Are you the guy with a beard and glasses who was in my face on the day in question? The hostility was perpetrated by CU, Folk from Focus E17 etc. The hostility commenced before kick off  with the shouting and screaming at us; you all then decided to leave the area and go behind the goal. The little rat who you claimed to be a dulwich hamlet supporter came over at half time and tried to provoke more problems by attempting to steal a flag and got a kick up the arse for his troubles, before the rest of you decided to have another pop at the end of the game. It was Clapton Ultras and their various hangers on that came across and started spitting and throwing beer cans etc, it was Clapton ultras that were the aggressors and doing the provoking.. the reality is that folk got off lightly and I'm regretting that a few of you weren't hit a lot harder at the time. Conveniently for you lot the grass happened to be a supporter from another team which I think is Bullshit tbh as the lot of you would have probably gone crying to the police if you had been battered for what you had done.


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> We tried explaining, getting in touch, discussing and all we've got was insults and accusations.
> Once I found out (and others too) the man was in court, whatever we would have done it would have been wrong.
> I am wondering if they would have even accepted any money for example.


There had been no effort to get in touch whatsoever


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> You're one of the Italian lads aren't you ? Are you the guy with a beard and glasses who was in my face on the day in question? The hostility was perpetrated by CU, Folk from Focus E17 etc. The hostility commenced before kick off  with the shouting and screaming at us; you all then decided to leave the area and go behind the goal. The little rat who you claimed to be a dulwich hamlet supporter came over at half time and tried to provoke more problems by attempting to steal a flag and got a kick up the arse for his troubles, before the rest of you decided to have another pop at the end of the game. It was Clapton Ultras and their various hangers on that came across and started spitting and throwing beer cans etc, it was Clapton ultras that were the aggressors and doing the provoking.. the reality is that folk got off lightly and I'm regretting that a few of you weren't hit a lot harder at the time. Conveniently for you lot the grass happened to be a supporter from another team which I think is Bullshit tbh as the lot of you would have probably gone crying to the police if you had been battered for what you had done.



Can I check the flag stealer got 'a kick up the arse' at half time? I heard it was after the match and post by K12M mentions an incident after the match outside the ground. Or are they two seperate incidents? Its all a bit confusing. Can you clarify?


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 16, 2016)

two seperate incidents


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> two seperate incidents



So that kid got battered twice or two separate people got battered?


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 16, 2016)

He didn't get battered at all, he got a kick up the backside for trying to steal a flag, and got slapped after the game in the melee that ensued when CU and their cohorts came back to attack every one.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> He didn't get battered at all, he got a kick up the backside for trying to steal a flag, and got slapped after the game in the melee that ensued when CU and their cohorts came back to attack every one.



That was in the ground though right? What's the other incident that took place outside the ground that 'none of CU were part of' refered to in K12's post?


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Is it because maybe we managed to create a space where people can finally feel welcome (apart from women abusers and their friends), can enjoy football, do some work for the community and not being obliged to pay crazy amount of money for games?


I have to say that given all the handbags, hissy fits, flag grabs, backside boots and inter-comrade scraps that seem to be kicking off, I can't say that the club looks that welcoming at all to me, which is something of a shame.

I was thinking of paying the club a visit in a couple of weeks, but I've been put right off.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> You're one of the Italian lads aren't you ? Are you the guy with a beard and glasses who was in my face on the day in question? The hostility was perpetrated by CU, Folk from Focus E17 etc. The hostility commenced before kick off  with the shouting and screaming at us; you all then decided to leave the area and go behind the goal. The little rat who you claimed to be a dulwich hamlet supporter came over at half time and tried to provoke more problems by attempting to steal a flag and got a kick up the arse for his troubles, before the rest of you decided to have another pop at the end of the game. It was Clapton Ultras and their various hangers on that came across and started spitting and throwing beer cans etc, it was Clapton ultras that were the aggressors and doing the provoking.. the reality is that folk got off lightly and I'm regretting that a few of you weren't hit a lot harder at the time. Conveniently for you lot the grass happened to be a supporter from another team which I think is Bullshit tbh as the lot of you would have probably gone crying to the police if you had been battered for what you had done.


It sounds to me you're part of the family of two boys and a man. I stayed on the scaffold for really long chatting with the one who looked the wiser and more experience amongst you three. It was a really civilised chat and he even admitted "maybe wearing the RMT armbands was a problem...".
The only person who came screaming on my face was one the two sons of his. But yeah, I am not crying about it. I understand he could have been nervous and I am sure I've always been really respectful and trying to explain my reasons.
About what we would do with police, these are just allegations. We never went to police whatever happened any time.
We could have maybe, but we didn't.



juice_terry said:


> There had been no effort to get in touch whatsoever


This is not true, but believe what you want.


On the "tout": you confirm it was a different incident, that CU weren't involved and it wasn't even in the Old Spotted Dog.
How could we be responsible for that?


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 16, 2016)

No attempts whatsoever have been made to get in touch. Any incidents outside the ground would have been a continuation of what was started inside the ground; again this was instigated by CU and the screaming banshees they were backing up having a pop at SH.Nope I was not part of any family on that day. And no allegations have been made re police read it clearly, I stated if folk within the CU had been battered i have no doubt they too would have been running of to grass at the earliest opportunity.
A toxic place with toxic people .. identity politics at its worst


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> No attempts whatsoever have been made to get in touch. Any incidents outside the ground would have been a continuation of what was started inside the ground; again this was instigated by CU and the screaming banshees they were backing up having a pop at SH.Nope I was not part of any family on that day. And no allegations have been made re police read it clearly, I stated if folk within the CU had been battered i have no doubt they too would have been running of to grass at the earliest opportunity.
> A toxic place with toxic people .. identity politics at its worst



Well no allegations, but "assumption"? 
"If X, Y would do Z" why? on the basis of what? of which experience?
It's clear you've got no idea where you want to get with this argument.
Any incident out there was instigated by us? Sure. Also robberies and shootings in West Ham Park then.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

juice_terry not sure if you spotted this?



poptyping said:


> That was in the ground though right? What's the other incident that took place outside the ground that 'none of CU were part of' refered to in K12's post?


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 16, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> You're one of the Italian lads aren't you ? Are you the guy with a beard and glasses who was in my face on the day in question? The hostility was perpetrated by CU, Folk from Focus E17 etc. The hostility commenced before kick off  with the shouting and screaming at us; you all then decided to leave the area and go behind the goal. The little rat who you claimed to be a dulwich hamlet supporter came over at half time and tried to provoke more problems by attempting to steal a flag and got a kick up the arse for his troubles, before the rest of you decided to have another pop at the end of the game. It was Clapton Ultras and their various hangers on that came across and started spitting and throwing beer cans etc, it was Clapton ultras that were the aggressors and doing the provoking.. the reality is that folk got off lightly and I'm regretting that a few of you weren't hit a lot harder at the time. Conveniently for you lot the grass happened to be a supporter from another team which I think is Bullshit tbh as the lot of you would have probably gone crying to the police if you had been battered for what you had done.



spitting? See, that's cuntish of the highest order.


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 16, 2016)

editor said:


> I have to say that given all the handbags, hissy fits, flag grabs, backside boots and inter-comrade scraps that seem to be kicking off, I can't say that the club looks that welcoming at all to me, which is something of a shame.
> 
> I was thinking of paying the club a visit in a couple of weeks, but I've been put right off.



You're not the only one mate. Shameless wankers.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

Come down and take a look yourself.
Nothing ever happened unless somebody wanted to proactively piss us off with their presence.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Come down and take a look yourself.
> Nothing ever happened *unless somebody wanted to proactively piss us off with their presence*.


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Come down and take a look yourself.
> Nothing ever happened unless somebody wanted to proactively piss us off with their presence.


Th


ItWillNeverWork said:


>



That policy is slightly flawed if you're likely to be 'proactively pissed off' with the presence of real anti-fascists. What a fucking shambles.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

Wasn't it the woman beater that was the problem?


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> Th
> 
> 
> That policy is slightly flawed if you're likely to be 'proactively pissed off' with the presence of real anti-fascists. What a fucking shambles.


Whatever, I am the stupid one still replying your useless provocations.
Have a good weekend.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Come down and take a look yourself.
> Nothing ever happened unless somebody wanted to proactively piss us off with their presence.


You're not really selling it as this 'attractive place to visit' you claim it to be. How on earth might somebody "proactively piss you off" with just their mere presence?

What rules must be adhered to to prevent any new visitors falling foul of this bizarre prerequisite? The more you describe the place - and the more argy bargy and tedious inter-faction stories you document - the less appealing it becomes.

Football is supposed to be about fun and solidarity. Least it is to me. You make it sound more like the Monty Python "splitters" sketch.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Wasn't it the woman beater that was the problem?


You may *suspect* sh to be a woman beater, but none of us were there when cl was injured and .'. cannot *know* how she sustained those injuries, whether events unfolded as sh says or as she says.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> You may *suspect* sh to be a woman beater, but none of us were there when cl was injured and .'. cannot *know* how she sustained those injuries, whether events unfolded as sh says or as she says.



Yeah I get all that. But it doesnt really matter whether I think he did it or not bc CU do and they are the ones being discussed.

They took issue with this guy bc of the allegations and the Celtic lot ended up getting caught in the cross fire. I feel bad for them. I wonder if they knew what they were walking into. It doesn't sound like it tbh.


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> You may *suspect* sh to be a woman beater, but none of us were there when cl was injured and .'. cannot *know* how she sustained those injuries, whether events unfolded as sh says or as she says.



Still?

_“….there is a high chance of conviction if this matter was to be taken to Court.

We would be able to say that your account remains that you were assaulted and that we have no reason to suspect you made the matter up.

In the same vein we would say Steve was not exonerated. It was simply that the matter was not capable of proof at Court. Both yourself and Steve accept the injuries you received were as a result of an incident between the two of you. You claim to have been assaulted and Steve claimed self defence as a result of you attacking him. In the absence of any witnesses or background history we couldn’t prove the matter either way. This coupled with the injuries you received being of a CPS charging standard of common assault meant that we have only 6 months from the incident to bring the matter before a Court. This had lapsed prior to initial report”._​


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

Has anyone mentioned the actual _football_ here?


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> _“….there is a high chance of conviction if this matter was to be taken to Court._​


What qualified lawyer made this claim?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

editor said:


> Has anyone mentioned the actual _football_ here?



This thread isn't about football


----------



## two sheds (Sep 16, 2016)

Fair play to k12m for coming on and having a go at answering questions though.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

editor said:


> What qualified lawyer made this claim?



That's posted up on her blog and is attributed to the police officer dealing with the case if I remember rightly.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

Still wanna know if Trev Taylor is a facsist.  Anyone?


----------



## JimW (Sep 16, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Fair play to k12m for coming on and having a go at answering questions though.


Though the propensity to come and have a go was part of the original problem


----------



## k12m (Sep 16, 2016)

JimW said:


> Though the propensity to come and have a go was part of the original problem


This was actually a good joke


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

poptyping said:


> That's posted up on her blog and is attributed to the police officer dealing with the case if I remember rightly.


Be a bit of a daft thing for a police officer to say. It's all too murky for me anyway so I'm stepping away from this. I don't think I'll bother with Clapton. I want fun at football, not an endless infighting drama.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 16, 2016)

editor said:


> You're not really selling it as this 'attractive place to visit' you claim it to be. How on earth might somebody "proactively piss you off" with just their mere presence?



Bet it's more fun than watching Dulwich Hamlet


----------



## Ole (Sep 16, 2016)

editor said:


> I have to say that given all the handbags, hissy fits, flag grabs, backside boots and inter-comrade scraps that seem to be kicking off, I can't say that the club looks that welcoming at all to me, which is something of a shame.
> 
> I was thinking of paying the club a visit in a couple of weeks, but I've been put right off.


 
Don't bother, seems to be a boutique, borderline fake football club with no discernible roots or support in the local community. I reckon almost none of the Clapton 'Ultras' are even from East London, as they look like the middle-class muppets who've gentrified the place recently. Possibly not even football fans at all before a few years ago. Asked a couple of mates who are from the area all their lives (Plaistow) about the club and they'd literally never heard of them which says something about their presence in the community.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Bet it's more fun than watching Dulwich Hamlet


Why would you say that? Have you ever been? No, of course not.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 16, 2016)

editor said:


> Why would you say that? Have you ever been? No, of course not.



This thread is in no way representative of Clapton games. Judging Clapton on some highly partisan histrionics on a semi anonymous corner of the Internet is a bit daft.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 16, 2016)

I am sure it's not to late for CU to do a collection and ask the Scottish comrades where it should be donated to?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 16, 2016)

The39thStep said:


> I am sure it's not to late for CU to do a collection and ask the Scottish comrades where it should be donated to?



....and a formal position on talking to the plod.


----------



## snadge (Sep 16, 2016)

This is what happens when hipsters get into football.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Come down and take a look yourself.
> Nothing ever happened unless *somebody wanted to proactively piss us off with their presence*.



This is what I'm talking about mate. As others have pointed out, fair enough for responding to some of the stuff raised and showing a bit of a sense humour etc. But the issue people have with you - I'm not talking about SH and his mates but anti-fash, people in the movement, people in general - is that you want to police your environment, and therefore if we come in to contact with you, you want to police us. People are kicking off because one of your number is accused of grassing someone up to the police - I'm not saying that happened, I don't know - but actually what's worse is that you don't seem to get that you're attempting to set yourself up as the Morality Police in your own little spaces and circles. You don't get to decide where people stand at football matches. 

Even if you set yourselves up as a firm, and announce on your blog that some people can't sit with you, nobody is going to listen. See, when a real firm decides they don't want somebody coming in to their territory, they don't ask them politely - they make sure that they get their way through a monopoly of organised force. And if they decide to beat someone up for the crime of standing nearby, they also don't usually try to claim some kind of militant antifascist moral high ground to justify it.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> This thread is in no way representative of Clapton games. Judging Clapton on some highly partisan histrionics on a semi anonymous corner of the Internet is a bit daft.


That doesn't actually answer the question, but whatevs.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 16, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Still wanna know if Trev Taylor is a facsist.  Anyone?



no-one's accused him of being a fascist. A self-hating jew maybe  if we're going off the anti-fascist intelligence provided.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Come down and take a look yourself.
> Nothing ever happened unless somebody wanted to proactively piss us off with their presence.



hi k12m, can you tell me how many other people have been 'banned from the scaffold' - ie those people clapton ultras have asked not to stand with them in their area?


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 16, 2016)

Why don't the Clapton Ultras, those self appointed judges of righteousness, assign some of their number to duties outside the turnstiles, so as to avoid anyone they deem undesirable from entering their ground?


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 16, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Why don't the Clapton Ultras, those self appointed judges of righteousness, assign some of their number to duties outside the turnstiles, so as to avoid anyone they deem undesirable from entering their ground?



They  have fewer than 100 fans at some home games so that may not be practical. They also seem incapable of differentiating the good guys from the bad guys. It was Celtic FFS.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 16, 2016)

Nice one said:


> hi k12m, can you tell me how many other people have been 'banned from the scaffold' - ie those people clapton ultras have asked not to stand with them in their area?



'Lads' aren't welcome.


Seriously.


----------



## Athos (Sep 16, 2016)

editor said:


> Be a bit of a daft thing for a police officer to say.



Why? Looks like the officer is giving the alleged victim an explanation as to why they/the CPS wouldn't proceed.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 16, 2016)

Nice one said:


> no-one's accused him of being a fascist. A self-hating jew maybe  if we're going off the anti-fascist intelligence provided.



In that link that was posted about him a few pages back, it talks about his links to far right and fascist groups and people. It heavily implies that he is fash. 

In his response on the bands fb (also posted a few pages back) he refutes claims on that Web page and explicitly denies that he's fash (His dad's jewish and he's got black mates so he cant be fash). He says CU are his accusers.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 16, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> real anti-fascists.



Who decides who is one of these? Is there a commitee?


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 16, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Who decides who is one of these? Is there a commitee?



Celtic are historically anti-fascist and are globally recognised as such. Their reputation speaks for itself, or at least it should do to anyone who knows anything about football.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 16, 2016)

poptyping said:


> In that link that was posted about him a few pages back, it talks about his links to far right and fascist groups and people. It heavily implies that he is fash.
> 
> In his response on the bands fb (also posted a few pages back) he refutes claims on that Web page and explicitly denies that he's fash (His dad's jewish and he's got black mates so he cant be fash). He says CU are his accusers.



aye, london anti-fascists get as far as saying he has "neo-nazi links" and "mixes with neo-Nazis and fascists through music and football". I don't think anyone's saying he is a fascist or neo-nazi because i don't think there is any evidence that he is. 

I think the purpose of the london anti-fascist expose was to flag to the yid army they have a secret neo-nazi in their ranks, and it would be up to them to 'deal' with him.  What it has done is piss off a lot of tottenham lads. Cards are getting marked all over the place.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 16, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> Celtic are historically anti-fascist and are globally recognised as such. Their reputation speaks for itself, or at least it should do to anyone who knows anything about football.



I know fuck all about football. I commend Celtic on their anti-fascism, but would say that anyone who has physically opposed the far-right is a 'real' anti fascist.


----------



## snadge (Sep 16, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> I know fuck all about football. I commend Celtic on their anti-fascism, but would say that anyone who has physically opposed the far-right is a 'real' anti fascist.




Fuck off.


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 16, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> I know fuck all about football. I commend Celtic on their anti-fascism, but would say that anyone who has physically opposed the far-right is a 'real' anti fascist.


As the majority of us who were "confronted" by CU on this occasion have a 20 year plus track record of doing so..


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 16, 2016)

snadge said:


> Fuck off.



???


----------



## snadge (Sep 16, 2016)

Hipsters, trying hard with the blame game, no good with the gutter game.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 16, 2016)

Nice one said:


> I think the purpose of the london anti-fascist expose was to flag to the yid army they have a secret neo-nazi in their ranks, and it would be up to them to 'deal' with him.  What it has done is piss off a lot of tottenham lads. Cards are getting marked all over the place.



Was it fuck. My reading, and any reasonable person not trying to shit stir was that Trevor was the one trying desperately to tie in football somehow. To make it an us against them thing, rather than just him associating and attacking antifascists with fascists. 

I can almost guarantee there are people in LAF older than you who have been doing the business before you were and are still doing it now. Rather than taking self righteous positions from a position of ignorance, why not get back on the street.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 16, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> As the majority of us who were "confronted" by CU on this occasion have a 20 year plus track record of doing so..



Fair play.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 16, 2016)

snadge said:


> Hipsters, trying hard with the blame game, no good with the gutter game.



I'm not a hipster. Done a bit of the 'gutter game' fwiw.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 16, 2016)

snadge said:


> Hipsters, trying hard with the blame game, no good with the gutter game.



What's your stake in this? Just stirring up the shit for the lolz?


----------



## snadge (Sep 16, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> What's your stake in this? Just stirring up the shit for the lolz?




No, just detest people taking over working class solidarity for politics.


You should also keep the fuck out of anything I may comment on because you are full of shit.

You have no idea what I am about, or what *I stand for.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 16, 2016)

snadge said:


> No, just detest people taking over working class solidarity for politics.



Right, well you're gunna have to justify that.


----------



## snadge (Sep 16, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Right, well you're gunna have to justify that.




Not to you I don't.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 16, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Was it fuck. My reading, and any reasonable person not trying to shit stir was that Trevor was the one trying desperately to tie in football somehow. To make it an us against them thing, rather than just him associating and attacking antifascists with fascists.
> 
> I can almost guarantee there are people in LAF older than you who have been doing the business before you were and are still doing it now. Rather than taking self righteous positions from a position of ignorance, why not get back on the street.



 almost everyone has been doing the business before me and doubtless will continue to do it longer after i'm gone. [in fact, edited to say that those who got attacked at clapton have done the business more than i could ever hope to do!]

here's the thing, the best way to deal with trev taylor was to put out a poster, a poster! on your facebook page saying what a bad boy trev is? That's the best way? And only when you get a load of shit from tottenham lads on your facebook page do you write a more detailed account, which adds nothing and allows all his non-political tottenham mates to jump to his defence.

Do you think that was the best way of dealing with trev taylor? They way they dealt with the cupcakes woman? Perhaps you do.

But if you'd have trawled his facebook page looking for dodgy photos and 'friends' who may be dodgy, you will have also found out he has links with gate 13 and played with the cockney rejects, does this mean he "mixes with anti-fascists through music and football"?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 16, 2016)

Nice one said:


> almost everyone has been doing the business before me and doubtless will continue to do it longer after i'm gone. [in fact, edited to say that those who got attacked at clapton have done the business more than i could ever hope to do!]
> 
> here's the thing, the best way to deal with trev taylor was to put out a poster, a poster! on your facebook page saying what a bad boy trev is? That's the best way? And only when you get a load of shit from tottenham lads on your facebook page do you write a more detailed account, which adds nothing and allows all his non-political tottenham mates to jump to his defence.
> 
> ...



Might have to agree with you here (which sticks in the fucking craw). Facebook call outs of people who may or may not be fascists are pretty useless. Why bother with the whole 'Here he is posing with this band, when in another screenshot you can see that their former bassist was wearing a Rock against Communism T-Shirt and eating a right wing fairy cake' when there's a whole host of volk out there who'd be happy to publicly admit to wanting to hit you round the head with a swastika on a flagpole.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 16, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Why bother with the whole 'Here he is posing with this band, when in another screenshot you can see that their former bassist was wearing a Rock against Communism T-Shirt and eating a right wing fairy cake' when there's a whole host of volk out there who'd be happy to publicly admit to wanting to hit you round the head with a swastika on a flagpole.



I've lost track of the thread and which side you're on but if that is vaguely on topic I think that has to win it


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 16, 2016)

two sheds said:


> I've lost track of the thread and which side you're on but if that is vaguely on topic I think that has to win it



Side?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F9R5gT9D


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 16, 2016)

Nice one said:


> almost everyone has been doing the business before me and doubtless will continue to do it longer after i'm gone. [in fact, edited to say that those who got attacked at clapton have done the business more than i could ever hope to do!]
> 
> here's the thing, the best way to deal with trev taylor was to put out a poster, a poster! on your facebook page saying what a bad boy trev is? That's the best way? And only when you get a load of shit from tottenham lads on your facebook page do you write a more detailed account, which adds nothing and allows all his non-political tottenham mates to jump to his defence.
> 
> ...



That's not the order of events. It was this Trev that was doing his best to rope in Tottenham lads as he knows he needs backup.


----------



## Nigel (Sep 16, 2016)

Slightly off topic, is this a trend to gain some sort of credibility with this 'outing' various Punk & Oi bands with very little substantiated evidence and from what I see untrue !
Recently talking directly to people of 'younger gneration' and also facebook/twitter that Sham 69( Tim S/aka Tim V Man !) & P. Rooney; Vice Squad are dodgy and allow Seig Hailling at their gigs !

Find this very difficult to believe as have known and met both individuals and been to gigs of both recently !
Is this, 'misinformation' going to be a continued amongst certain individuals and groups as  scapegoat as an attempt to build false credibility ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 17, 2016)

k12m said:


> Still?
> 
> _“….there is a high chance of conviction if this matter was to be taken to Court.
> 
> ...


You see what is said about couldn't prove the matter either way? This could have gone down either way and you seem to have taken belief for certainty. I doubt you'd accept that from a bourgeois court. Pisspoor, it really is. So, on the basis of 'i know best' you or other people out of cu instigated this sorry chain of events.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2016)

Nice one said:


> almost everyone has been doing the business before me and doubtless will continue to do it longer after i'm gone. [in fact, edited to say that those who got attacked at clapton have done the business more than i could ever hope to do!]
> 
> here's the thing, the best way to deal with trev taylor was to put out a poster, a poster! on your facebook page saying what a bad boy trev is? That's the best way? And only when you get a load of shit from tottenham lads on your facebook page do you write a more detailed account, which adds nothing and allows all his non-political tottenham mates to jump to his defence.
> 
> ...


Cockney Rejects weren't facists but I've no doubt that some of their fans were. But then you could have said that about Madness and the Specials back then. 

Misunderstood or hateful? Oi!'s rise and fall


----------



## Nice one (Sep 17, 2016)

editor said:


> Cockney Rejects weren't facists but I've no doubt that some of their fans were. But then you could have said that about Madness and the Specials back then.
> 
> Misunderstood or hateful? Oi!'s rise and fall



which was my point. Tenuous links and guilt by association don't really cut it as evidence. Would a neo-nazi oi band really be proud to be supporting the cockney rejects? And would the cockney rejects be happy in playing on the same stage with a neo-nazi sympathiser? 

As i said further up i think the purpose of the laf expose, given that taylor isn't an 'out' neo-nazi, was to make public his political associations so as to isolate him from his non-political scenes - football and music. Let the tottenham fans deal with trev.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 17, 2016)

k12m said:


> Really?
> Seriously?
> I'm glad you read only half of it.
> So you want to dismiss the fact people stood on our end with RMT armbands (I swear on the life of my mother I've seen them) and i even challenged some people wearing them asking why. Some of the guests who came to visit for the game had no idea "I was given it by somebody".
> Who wanted to prove his point and do a show of force?



Just fuck off now. What an utter load of bollocks.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 17, 2016)

k12m said:


> Really?
> Seriously?
> I'm glad you read only half of it.
> So you want to dismiss the fact people stood on our end with RMT armbands (I swear on the life of my mother I've seen them) and i even challenged some people wearing them asking why. Some of the guests who came to visit for the game had no idea "I was given it by somebody".
> Who wanted to prove his point and do a show of force?


The main problem with this post is that it is opposed by the cu statement, which shows 1) sh and those stood with him arrived *before* cu, so could pick their plot: not a provocation, but in the absence of assigned seating/standing reasonable. 2) the initial contact between the groups made by cu who "challenged" sh etc although in what language we're not told - it did lead to a response, however, which may offer a clue. 3) the actual fisticuffs were provoked, on their own evidence, by cu / cu allies after the match. Nothing about sh approaching anyone, nothing about these so-called allies initiating events. But should we trust this statement, which you have suggested isn't entirely accurate?


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 17, 2016)

Nigel said:


> Slightly off topic, is this a trend to gain some sort of credibility with this 'outing' various Punk & Oi bands with very little substantiated evidence and from what I see untrue !
> Recently talking directly to people of 'younger gneration' and also facebook/twitter that Sham 69( Tim S/aka Tim V Man !) & P. Rooney; Vice Squad are dodgy and allow Seig Hailling at their gigs !
> 
> Find this very difficult to believe as have known and met both individuals and been to gigs of both recently !
> Is this, 'misinformation' going to be a continued amongst certain individuals and groups as  scapegoat as an attempt to build false credibility ?



I find that accusation very difficult to believe too .Sham 69 in particular were always cursed by a rotten element among their following, no matter how many Rock Against Racism gigs they did. The fascists among their following pretty much deliberately destroyed the band , made it impossible for them to play anywhere  . Most likely that type of element are still at it, trying to claim the band as their own despite Sham 69 wanting fuck all to do with them .


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 17, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Was it fuck. My reading, and any reasonable person not trying to shit stir was that Trevor was the one trying desperately to tie in football somehow. To make it an us against them thing, rather than just him associating and attacking antifascists with fascists.
> 
> I can almost guarantee there are people in LAF older than you who have been doing the business before you were and are still doing it now. Rather than taking self righteous positions from a position of ignorance, why not get back on the street.


Mainly cos 'the street' isn't where the main threat to the working class is from.


----------



## Smoking kills (Sep 17, 2016)

editor said:


> Cockney Rejects weren't facists but I've no doubt that some of their fans were. But then you could have said that about Madness and the Specials back then.
> 
> Misunderstood or hateful? Oi!'s rise and fall


Madness and The Specials were ska bands tho.


----------



## k12m (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Just fuck off now. What an utter load of bollocks.


Explain angry man.
I was there. What's the "utter load ofb bollocks"?
You only keep insulting but facts are proving you talk shit my dear


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> Explain angry man.
> I was there. What's the "utter load ofb bollocks"?
> You only keep insulting but facts are proving you talk shit my dear



Chucking out time already ?


----------



## two sheds (Sep 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> Explain angry man.
> I was there. What's the "utter load ofb bollocks"?
> You only keep insulting but facts are proving you talk shit my dear



Say hello to Casually Red


----------



## k12m (Sep 18, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> The main problem with this post is that it is opposed by the cu statement, which shows 1) sh and those stood with him arrived *before* cu, so could pick their plot: not a provocation, but in the absence of assigned seating/standing reasonable. 2) the initial contact between the groups made by cu who "challenged" sh etc although in what language we're not told - it did lead to a response, however, which may offer a clue. 3) the actual fisticuffs were provoked, on their own evidence, by cu / cu allies after the match. Nothing about sh approaching anyone, nothing about these so-called allies initiating events. But should we trust this statement, which you have suggested isn't entirely accurate?


Not sure if you go to football,but "occupying" a space where football supporters usually stand is a big probocation.
I personally had to convince people to move to another end of the ground because despite the presence of sh they didn't want to accept leaving tour "home" to somebody else.
2- it was all verbal but as said we got beers thrown at us and what I called the "turkey breast walk" by some people (not Celtic) 
3- I am not sure what you mean but I am sure some peoples fell in a trap accurately planned by few. Surely the Celtic people, probably we did too on my opinion.
What dlo you suggest the statement should have said Moore?


----------



## k12m (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Chucking out time already ?


I seriously don't know what this means.



two sheds said:


> Say hello to Casually Red


Hello


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

Nigel said:


> Slightly off topic, is this a trend to gain some sort of credibility with this 'outing' various Punk & Oi bands with very little substantiated evidence and from what I see untrue !
> Recently talking directly to people of 'younger gneration' and also facebook/twitter that Sham 69( Tim S/aka Tim V Man !) & P. Rooney; Vice Squad are dodgy and allow Seig Hailling at their gigs !
> 
> Find this very difficult to believe as have known and met both individuals and been to gigs of both recently !
> Is this, 'misinformation' going to be a continued amongst certain individuals and groups as  scapegoat as an attempt to build false credibility ?



Given their toxicity any rumour emanating from within the likes of CU needs to be viewed with immense suspicion . They've zero credibility . Even we're it to turn out to be true deep scepticism given the sour e is the correct position to take  . I've heard another rumour recently about them chucking this accusation round with zero evidence on another occasion , but I'd rather not highlight it as its pretty sketchy and I can't stand over it for certain . but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest were that the case .


----------



## k12m (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Given their toxicity any rumour emanating from within the likes of CU needs to be viewed with immense suspicion . They've zero credibility . Even we're it to turn out to be true deep scepticism given the sour e is the correct position to take  . I've heard another rumour recently about them chucking this accusation round with zero evidence on another occasion , but I'd rather not highlight it as its pretty sketchy and I can't stand over it for certain . but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest were that the case .


Again? We've got nothing to do with the accusarions and the report on the punk guy.
I posted my first message here only to say that. 
Why mentioning us again in this comment? You're obsessed with us


----------



## two sheds (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> I've heard another rumour recently about them chucking this accusation round with zero evidence on another occasion , but I'd rather not highlight it as its pretty sketchy and I can't stand over it for certain . but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest were that the case .



Well that convinces me


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> What dlo you suggest the statement should have said Moore?


----------



## k12m (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


>


Bloody autocorrect


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Well that convinces me




Youre convinced by a half arsed rumour with zero proof to back it up ? I can see why you have such an affinity with these polish lager swilling hipsters.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 18, 2016)

You've not come across sarcasm before then. 

"I've heard this rumour which is probably crap but I'm not going to mention it but I'm mentioning it anyway"


----------



## k12m (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Youre convinced by a half arsed rumour with zero proof to back it up ? I can see why you have such an affinity with these polish lager swilling hipsters.


Obession


----------



## two sheds (Sep 18, 2016)




----------



## k12m (Sep 18, 2016)

two sheds said:


>


I prefer the smael of smoke pyros, sorry


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

two sheds said:


> You've not come across sarcasm before then.



No I haven't . Honest guv .


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> I prefer the smael of smoke pyros, sorry



The smael ? Do you ave a minky ? Does it smael like a minky ? 






Fuck me your hardcore .


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> Not sure if you go to football,but "occupying" a space where football supporters usually stand is a big probocation.


Yes,if it's away supporters in the home end or vice versa. But no one has suggested that was the case, no one has said sh and / or celts cheering on opposition. Indeed, the celts def there to support Clapton. 





> I personally had to convince people to move to another end of the ground because despite the presence of sh they didn't want to accept leaving tour "home" to somebody else.


Right, this was about the celts then





> 2- it was all verbal but as said we got beers thrown at us and what I called the "turkey breast walk" by some people (not Celtic)


So what verbal things did you say to provoke this response?





> 3- I am not sure what you mean but I am sure some peoples fell in a trap accurately planned by few. Surely the Celtic people, probably we did too on my opinion.
> What dlo you suggest the statement should have said Moore?


Tbh the statement's a rather flimsy thing to hide behind as it provokes more questions than it answers, e.g. if someone from man u is in the home end at arsenal the stewards remove them - if the celts and sh presence was likely to lead to disorder why didn't one of you get someone from the club to have a word? Why didn't you say, well it's a bit shit but theyl celts have come a long way to show solidarity and donate to our food bank so let's be good hosts, it's only for a couple of hours after all? The way it's described in the statement doesn't really defend cu much, esp if people who purport to represent them describe things happening in a different order.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> Not sure if you go to football,but "occupying" a space where football supporters usually stand is a big probocation.
> I personally had to convince people to move to another end of the ground because despite the presence of sh they didn't want to accept leaving tour "home" to somebody else.
> 2- it was all verbal but as said we got beers thrown at us and what I called the "turkey breast walk" by some people (not Celtic)
> 3- I am not sure what you mean but I am sure some peoples fell in a trap accurately planned by few. Surely the Celtic people, probably we did too on my opinion.
> What dlo you suggest the statement should have said Moore?



hi k12m, when i used to go and watch clapton there were a number of rmt trade union activists who were clapton fans and would stand in the scaffold. I understand they were there that day with hedley, along with some anti-fascists from celtic and some anti-fascists from villa.

So in effect clapton fans who stand where they normally stand were attacked by other clapton fans. Why did you feel you had the right to attack other clapton fans? Why did you feel you had the right to attack other anti-fascists? (anti-fascists incidently who had supported the clapton ultras and attended clapton home games as comrades standing in the scaffold!)


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> the "turkey breast walk"



This phrase might be the best thing to come out of this.


----------



## Ho Chi Ming (Sep 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> Not sure if you go to football,but "occupying" a space where football supporters usually stand is a big probocation.



Gosh, who knew football fans were so sensitive? Is this what you mean by "inclusive"?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 18, 2016)

SH must be pissing himself with laughter.

He won with fucking nobs on.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Youre convinced by a half arsed rumour with zero proof to back it up ? I can see why you have such an affinity with these polish lager swilling hipsters.



Why do you keep mentioning the fact that some Clapton fans drink polish lager?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Given their toxicity any rumour emanating from within the likes of CU needs to be viewed with immense suspicion . They've zero credibility . Even we're it to turn out to be true deep scepticism given the sour e is the correct position to take  . I've heard another rumour recently about them chucking this accusation round with zero evidence on another occasion , but I'd rather not highlight it as its pretty sketchy and I can't stand over it for certain . but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest were that the case .



A masterpiece.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 18, 2016)

The39thStep said:


> Mainly cos 'the street' isn't where the main threat to the working class is from.



Has the 'main' threat to the working class ever come from the street? Doesn't that kind of invalidate all street level anti-fascism?


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 18, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Has the 'main' threat to the working class ever come from the street? Doesn't that kind of invalidate all street level anti-fascism?



Yes both in Italy and Germany interwar. No it shouldn't .


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Why do you keep mentioning the fact that some Clapton fans drink polish lager?



Because they keep announcing it like its a fashion statement or something .


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Because they keep announcing it like its a fashion statement or something .




Do you mean the mention of Tyskie in some of their songs? Tyskie is part of a massive tax avoiding conglomerate


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Do you mean the mention of Tyskie in some of their songs? Tyskie is part of a massive tax avoiding conglomerate



FFs just google " Clapton ultras polish lager " . They make a big deal about it due to some hipster affectation .


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 18, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> FFs just google " Clapton ultras polish lager " . They make a big deal about it due to some hipster affectation .



I thought it was cos some of them are Polish 

It's not much of a fashion statement tbf. Tax avoidance isn't cool.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 18, 2016)

poptyping said:


> The guy from the band says he's not a fascist. He says his Dad is Jewish and he has black friends, who knows what to make of it.



And newbies pop up to defend CU. Along with yourself.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 18, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> No - we didn't. To be honest most of the people I work with wouldn't have heard about it (I'm not based in London). I appreciate that to you it's of enormous significance, from our perspective less so. What would be the point of us taking a 'formal position' on it?



Because you read about it on here and it is fucking significant.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 18, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Let's simplify a little - Does your anti fascist group (or political faction, or just you) have a formal position on the imprisonment of Unite union rep Michelle Smith for defending herself in Dover against neo-Nazis? Did your group discuss what happened? Was there a reason NOT to come out in public support for the Mersey AFN comrade who was attacked and arrested and convicted for being um, _an anti-fascist?
> _
> Please remember that silence speaks volumes yadda,yadda,yadda.



She's a Liverpool activist. Why would you (Brighton) 'need to know about it'?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> Really?
> Seriously?
> I'm glad you read only half of it.
> So you want to dismiss the fact people stood on our end with RMT armbands (I swear on the life of my mother I've seen them) and i even challenged some people wearing them asking why. Some of the guests who came to visit for the game had no idea "I was given it by somebody".
> Who wanted to prove his point and do a show of force?



Why would people unwittingly wear arm bands they'd been given? And it's ridiculous to state it represents a 'side' given there's tens of thousands of members in London alone and both parties in the unmentionable incident were/are members.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 18, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> She's a Liverpool activist. Why would you (Brighton) 'need to know about it'?



So, if a comrade is in a different postcode, fuck 'em?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 18, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> So, if a comrade is in a different postcode, fuck 'em?


By different postcode you mean from another city then


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 18, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> She's a Liverpool activist. Why would you (Brighton) 'need to know about it'?



Basic solidarity really. We're part of a national network and Dover was a national mobilisation. What happened to Michelle could feasibly have happened to any of us and so we have a duty to support her and her family. We have done so through fundraising and writing letters.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 18, 2016)

The39thStep said:


> Yes both in Italy and Germany interwar. No it shouldn't .



Those historical examples aside - can you see a role for street anti-fascism in post war Britain? Because the implication of your 'main threat' comment is that anti-fascism is a waste of effort that would better spent elsewhere.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Basic solidarity really. We're part of a national network and Dover was a national mobilisation. What happened to Michelle could feasibly have happened to any of us and so we have a duty to support her and her family. We have done so through fundraising and writing letters.



Pity the same solidarity wasn't evident as regards the scottish anti fascist you lot attacked and then grassed up when he had to defend himself from you people. That could happen to anyone unfortunate enough to come into contact with you lot . Other anti fascists then had to fundraise on his behalf thanks to your lots despicable actions .


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> SH must be pissing himself with laughter.
> 
> He won with fucking nobs on.



Won what ? What even remote type of victory did he acheive out of this humiliating debacle ? The further public blackening of his name ? More unfounded smears against him being spread far and wide  ? More ammunition for his enemies and the rumour mill ? More humiliating personal upset for himself and his family on top of what's already occurred ?
It certainly wasn't SH who took to Facebook or elsewhere on the Internet issuing statements congratulating himself on a victory. That was the CU and their hangers on .

Just because others have shown themselves up in a very public fashion doesn't remotely make it a victory for him in the slightest . Their actions have been their own and theirs alone, and completely outside of his control .However I'm quite sure the fash were pissing themselves laughing at anti fascists not only physically attacking other anti fascists and then boasting about it on the internet, but grassing each other up to the filth into the bargain . They've been the only winners in this . And CU handed them that victory on a plate .


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 18, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> So, if a comrade is in a different postcode, fuck 'em?



Only if it's Glasgow


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 19, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Basic solidarity really. We're part of a national network and Dover was a national mobilisation. What happened to Michelle could feasibly have happened to any of us and so we have a duty to support her and her family. We have done so through fundraising and writing letters.



Did you honestly just walk into that trap that easily?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> So, if a comrade is in a different postcode, fuck 'em?



Or it would be 'of little interest' were the words used iirc.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 19, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Did you honestly just walk into that trap that easily?


No, I was utterly blindsided by your Machiavellian manoeuvring. Almost Jesuitical in its subtlety.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 19, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Pity the same solidarity wasn't evident as regards the scottish anti fascist you lot attacked and then grassed up when he had to defend himself from you people. That could happen to anyone unfortunate enough to come into contact with you lot . Other anti fascists then had to fundraise on his behalf thanks to your lots despicable actions .



This is just fucking stupid. I had nothing to do with grassing up your comrade. Nobody I know or work with had anything to do with it.

If you wish to  draw comparisons and suggest that the two cases are similar then ponder this. Michelle was imprisoned for defending herself from neo-Nazis after a national call out, a national call out that was pushed by the AFN - a clear case of collective responsibility.  Your man, as far as I'm aware, received a suspended sentence for a fight at a football match that we didn't ask anyone at all to go to, CU or otherwise.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 19, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> This is just fucking stupid. I had nothing to do with grassing up your comrade. Nobody I know or work with had anything to do with it.
> 
> If you wish to  draw comparisons and suggest that the two cases are similar then ponder this. Michelle was imprisoned for defending herself from neo-Nazis after a national call out, a national call out that was pushed by the AFN - a clear case of collective responsibility.  Your man, as far as I'm aware, received a suspended sentence for a fight at a football match that we didn't ask anyone at all to go to CU or otherwise.



But you're suggesting that WE should also have a collective responsibility towards Michelle (I agree btw) despite us not encouraging her to go to your call out.
So what's the difference?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 19, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But you're suggesting that WE should also have a collective responsibility towards Michelle (I agree btw) despite us not encouraging her to go to your call out.
> So what's the difference?



To be honest the introduction of Michelle's case into this argument wasn't all that clever. It's not something to be kicked around to score points. 

I was trying to point out that those of us outside London have other priorities than trying to sort out some clusterfuck at a football match over a year ago.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 19, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> ...those of us outside London have other priorities than trying to sort out some clusterfuck at a football match over a year ago.



Dismissed as trivial by the kingpin of the Brighton antifacists. 

Clapton ultras must be pissing themselves with laughter.

They won with fucking nobs on.

Yadda yadda yadda


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 19, 2016)

Nice one said:


> Dismissed as trivial by the kingpin of the Brighton antifacists.
> 
> Clapton ultras must be pissing themselves with laughter.
> 
> ...



Didn't say it was trivial did I? I'm not the "kingpin" - whatever that means.


----------



## k12m (Sep 19, 2016)

Casual


Magnus McGinty said:


> Why would people unwittingly wear arm bands they'd been given? And it's ridiculous to state it represents a 'side' given there's tens of thousands of members in London alone and both parties in the unmentionable incident were/are members.


Ask them why they were wearing it, ask also the big man i spoke to (friend of SH and his little helpers) who told me "well, yeah, maybe wearing these was wrong".
I have nothing against RMT, nor anybody at CU I am sure. I have problems with few pricks in that union.
Some of them are here and they keep lying on the facts or running around in circles just insulting.
Why aren't they mentioning these details? Why don't they tell the details of how the celtic man was grassed and for which reasons?


----------



## k12m (Sep 19, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Yes,if it's away supporters in the home end or vice versa. But no one has suggested that was the case, no one has said sh and / or celts cheering on opposition. Indeed, the celts def there to support Clapton. Right, this was about the celts thenSo what verbal things did you say to provoke this response?Tbh the statement's a rather flimsy thing to hide behind as it provokes more questions than it answers, e.g. if someone from man u is in the home end at arsenal the stewards remove them - if the celts and sh presence was likely to lead to disorder why didn't one of you get someone from the club to have a word? Why didn't you say, well it's a bit shit but theyl celts have come a long way to show solidarity and donate to our food bank so let's be good hosts, it's only for a couple of hours after all? The way it's described in the statement doesn't really defend cu much, esp if people who purport to represent them describe things happening in a different order.





Nice one said:


> hi k12m, when i used to go and watch clapton there were a number of rmt trade union activists who were clapton fans and would stand in the scaffold. I understand they were there that day with hedley, along with some anti-fascists from celtic and some anti-fascists from villa.
> 
> So in effect clapton fans who stand where they normally stand were attacked by other clapton fans. Why did you feel you had the right to attack other clapton fans? Why did you feel you had the right to attack other anti-fascists? (anti-fascists incidently who had supported the clapton ultras and attended clapton home games as comrades standing in the scaffold!)



You're twisting the truth again.
There is SH who has been asked not to stand with us, surrounded by his little helpers (we recognised a few) and a lot of other people with RMT armbands.
Now, as SH is hiding behind what I found out way later it was the Celtic lot, isn't it instinctive to think they're all together and trying to defend the same positions?
They arrived way before us and it's not a problem of singing for the away team, but just a general attitude of aggressivity, taking over the space with a well planned strategy. The people responsible are NOT the Celtic lot.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 19, 2016)

k12m said:


> You're twisting the truth again.
> There is SH who has been asked not to stand with us, surrounded by his little helpers (we recognised a few) and a lot of other people with RMT armbands.
> Now, as SH is hiding behind what I found out way later it was the Celtic lot, isn't it instinctive to think they're all together and trying to defend the same positions?
> They arrived way before us and it's not a problem of singing for the away team, but just a general attitude of aggressivity, taking over the space with a well planned strategy. The people responsible are NOT the Celtic lot.



But what gives you the right to dictate who can or can't attend a Clapton game and where they can stand etc? If someone said that to me I'd almost certainly turn up again. I'd take it as very hostile.

Do any of the people barking these orders identify as anarchists?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> Cockney Rejects weren't facists but I've no doubt that some of their fans were. But then you could have said that about Madness and the Specials back then.
> 
> Misunderstood or hateful? Oi!'s rise and fall



The Rejects were pretty violently opposed to neo-Nazis at their gigs - so much so that they'd invade the audience and attack any sieg-heilers. I went to a couple of gigs where it took them a couple of hours to play a 45 minute set.


----------



## k12m (Sep 19, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But what gives you the right to dictate who can or can't attend a Clapton game and where they can stand etc? If someone said that to me I'd almost certainly turn up again. I'd take it as very hostile.
> 
> Do any of the people barking these orders identify as anarchists?


1- where does "anarchist" come from now?
2- if we know that the presence of somebody makes others who regularly come to games uncomfortable and the space not safe, then we ask them not to be there.
What's the issue with that?
The ground is pretty big for everybody. Just don't stand where you know you're not welcome. Easy.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

This notion that only certain people are allowed to stand in a designated space in a tiny non league ground with minuscule attendances is wonderfully daft.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> This notion that only certain people are allowed to stand in a designated space in a tiny non league ground with minuscule attendances is wonderfully daft.



Fascinating isn't it? 

I've been watching football since I was 6 years old and I've never heard anything like it.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> This notion that only certain people are allowed to stand in a designated space in a tiny non league ground with minuscule attendances is wonderfully daft.



Survivors of domestic violence who are regular attendees at Clapton feel uncomfortable being in close proximity to a man who they believe, rightly or wrongly, is an abuser. This person, who by all accounts is not a regular attendee or even a Clapton fan, was told on a previous that they werent welcome to stand in the scaffold because it was upsetting people there. I don't think that's unreasonable in itself. Obviously, what happened afterwards was a massive clusterfuck.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> This notion that only certain people are allowed to stand in a designated space in a tiny non league ground with minuscule attendances is wonderfully daft.



So, you wouldnt be fussed if, for example, an organised fascist started cuddling up at your end?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Survivors of domestic violence who are regular attendees at Clapton feel uncomfortable being in close proximity to a man who they believe, rightly or wrongly, is an abuser. This person, who by all accounts is not a regular attendee or even a Clapton fan, was told on a previous that they werent welcome to stand in the scaffold because it was upsetting people there. I don't think that's unreasonable in itself. Obviously, what happened afterwards was a massive clusterfuck.



How many people in total have been asked not to stand in the Scaffold out of interest?

And how thoroughly do you check everybody's background?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Survivors of domestic violence who are regular attendees at Clapton feel uncomfortable being in close proximity to a man who they believe, rightly or wrongly, is an abuser. This person, who by all accounts is not a regular attendee or even a Clapton fan, was told on a previous that they werent welcome to stand in the scaffold because it was upsetting people there. I don't think that's unreasonable in itself. Obviously, what happened afterwards was a massive clusterfuck.


The "rightly or wrongly" line is what worries most of all, to be honest.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> So, you wouldnt be fussed if, for example, an organised fascist started cuddling up at your end?



If you were worried about an organised fascist attending your local teams matches, would a blog post be the answer?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> So, you wouldnt be fussed if, for example, an organised fascist started cuddling up at your end?


I'm not sure what an "organised fascist" looks like, but unless he's waving a big banner that says, "Look! I'm a fascist!" and was banging out jaunty songs full of hate, I'm not sure how I'd be able to recognise the individual political beliefs of spectators.

Do you even go to football games? I'm sure there's no shortage of people who may have views that you may disagree with, but unless they start shoving them in your face, you're unlikely to even know, let alone be bothered.

What team do you regularly go and support, btw?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm not sure what an "organised fascist" looks like, but unless he's waving a big banner that says, "Look! I'm a fascist!" and was banging out jaunty songs full of hate, I'm not sure how I'd be able to recognise the individual political beliefs of spectators.
> 
> Do you even go to football games? I'm sure there's no shortage of people who may have views that you may disagree with, but unless they start shoving them in your face, you're unlikely to even know, let alone be bothered.
> 
> What team do you regularly go and support, btw?



Well, you are coy. Let's expand the scenario. Youre blissfully unaware of who is who but several of trusted mates finger a fascist at your end. 

Do you just ignore it?
Let someone else deal with it?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 19, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


> How many people in total have been asked not to stand in the Scaffold out of interest?
> 
> And how thoroughly do you check everybody's background?



You're asking the wrong person. I'm not a Clapton Ultra. k12m is though as they have said on the thread. 



editor said:


> The "rightly or wrongly" line is what worries most of all, to be honest.



CL said it happened and they believe her. A woman's word is enough for a lot of ppl esp considering the lack of justice for women who have suffered this type of abuse.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> A woman's word is enough for a lot of ppl esp considering the lack of justice for women who have suffered this type of abuse.


That really doesn't make up a logical argument, but I'll leave it at that.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Well, you are coy. Let's expand the scenario. Youre blissfully unaware of who is who but several of trusted mates finger a fascist at your end.
> 
> Do you just ignore it?
> Let someone else deal with it?


I'm not really interested in going along with your fanciful scenarios because it's a meaningless exercise and unlikely to ever happen at the team I support. That's one of the reasons I go there, in fact.

Talking of which, which football team do you regularly go and see play?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> You're asking the wrong person. I'm not a Clapton Ultra. k12m is though as they have said on the thread.



Fair enough, but you're weighing in. Do you think anyone else has been asked not to stand in the Scaffold? Do you think everybody standing in the Scaffold is rigorously background checked? Do you think these background checks are rigorous enough? What if people say they've never committed domestic abuse but they're lieing? What then?




poptyping said:


> CL said it happened and they believe her. A woman's word is enough for a lot of ppl esp considering the lack of justice for women who have suffered this type of abuse.



Look, I'm sympathetic to this view, I am. I appreciate the overwhelming majority of allegations of domestic violence are entirely genuine, I totally recognise SH could have well have done it and I'm sympathetic to the view that "well, I don't know but he probably did it" to be fair. I'm just not sympathetic enough to that viewpoint to think it justifies a big scrap at a non-league game involving a lot of people who definitely don't know for certain what SH did.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm not really interested in going along with your fanciful scenarios because it's a meaningless exercise and unlikely to ever happen at the team I support. That's one of the reasons I go there, in fact.
> 
> Talking of which, which football team do you regularly go and see play?



So, there's literally nobody you wouldnt mind standing with you no matter the harm it causes.

Very noble.

I see you have no problem with slagging off Clapton but ban anyone from criticising Dulwich. Nice


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> That really doesn't make up a logical argument, but I'll leave it at that.



Which bit?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> So, there's literally nobody you wouldnt mind standing with you no matter the harm it causes.
> 
> Very noble.
> 
> I see you have no problem with slagging off Clapton but ban anyone from criticising Dulwich. Nice


That's clearly not what I said at all, but for the third time of asking: which team do you regularly go and see play?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Which bit?


Because bad things happen a lot then it's acceptable to publicly assume that a bad thing has also happened here, despite the lack of evidence to support it. It's one hell of a slippery slope, and contrary to the basic premise of 'innocent till proved guilty.' Surely you can see that?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 19, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


> Fair enough, but you're weighing in. Do you think anyone else has been asked not to stand in the Scaffold? Do you think everybody standing in the Scaffold is rigorously background checked? Do you think these background checks are rigorous enough? What if people say they've never committed domestic abuse but they're lieing? What then?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm hardly weighing in. I have no idea if anyone else has been asked not to stand in the scaffold. You'd really have to ask a regular or someone from CU. I'm coming at this from the perspective of a woman who has lived through domestic violence and also a football fan (not Clapton although to be totally transparent I have been down on a few occasions. They helped out my project collecting and delivering aid to refugees by collecting some sleeping bags, money and one if them drove for us once). I didn't justify the 'scrap' I said it was a clusterfuck. There was absolutely no need for it to get to that level.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> Because bad things happen a lot then it's acceptable to publicly assume that a bad thing has also happened here, despite the lack of evidence to support it. It's one hell of a slippery slope, and contrary to the basic premise of 'innocent till proved guilty.' Surely you can see that?



Being a survivor myself, if a woman says she has been abused, my default is to believe her. There are so few cases where women actually lie about this stuff and so many cases where men get away with it. Abusive men paint the women they abuse about to be mentally unstable liars, as in this case. I'd rather be wrong on that incredibly rare occasion than disbelieve a woman and add to her trauma. I know I'm going to get a load of shit for this so I'm going to bow out for now.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> That's clearly not what I said at all, but for the third time of asking: which team do you regularly go and see play?



You can wiggle and squirm all you like but you know full well youre chatting bollocks.

...and yes I go to Clapton and the bizarre characterisation of hundreds of fans as some homogenous group is ridiculous. You ban valid criticism of Dulwich fans and yet feel free to slag off Clapton.

Nice double standards.


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> You can wiggle and squirm all you like but you know full well youre chatting bollocks.
> 
> ...and yes I go to Clapton and the bizarre characterisation of hundreds of fans as some homogenous group is ridiculous. You ban valid criticism of Dulwich fans and yet feel free to slag off Clapton.
> 
> Nice double standards.



Clapton are worse than scabs and deserve all the grief they're getting. I've no interest in Dulwich but at least they don't attack anti-fascists.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> You can wiggle and squirm all you like but you know full well youre chatting bollocks.
> 
> ...and yes I go to Clapton and the bizarre characterisation of hundreds of fans as some homogenous group is ridiculous. You ban valid criticism of Dulwich fans and yet feel free to slag off Clapton.
> 
> Nice double standards.


Where have I 'banned valid criticism of Dulwich fans'? And where have I slagged off Clapton?

How many times have you been to Clapton, btw?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> Where have I 'banned valid criticism of Dulwich fans'? And where have I slagged off Clapton?
> 
> How many times have you been to Clapton, btw?



Youre doing your best to stick the boot in when others have done the work.

Not a good look.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Youre doing your best to stick the boot in when others have done the work.
> 
> Not a good look.


Nice bit of evasion of the questions there. Again.  Want to try again? 

Where have I 'banned valid criticism of Dulwich fans'? And where have I slagged off Clapton?

How many times have you been to Clapton, btw?


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Being a survivor myself, if a woman says she has been abused, my default is to believe her. There are so few cases where women actually lie about this stuff and so many cases where men get away with it. Abusive men paint the women they abuse about to be mentally unstable liars, as in this case. I'd rather be wrong on that incredibly rare occasion than disbelieve a woman and add to her trauma. I know I'm going to get a load of shit for this so I'm going to bow out for now.



Not so quick .

SH claims to have been a victim of repeated physical , emotional and psychological abuse throughout his plainly troubled relationship . A relationship it's uncontested he himself brought to an end .  Why are his claims of being a victim of abuse not worthy of any belief in your eyes ?
 Do you believe men can be victims of domestic abuse at the hands of female partners or do you think that's an urban myth ? Do you think it laughable or unlikely a big strong man could ever be abused behind closed doors like he described ?

And do you recognise even for a second what the implications are if he is telling the truth as regards what occurred ? That the physical and verbal attacks on him by CU and various hangers on would themselves be a continuation of that physical and emotional domestic abuse. Part of the intended payback for ending an abusive relationship ?

Do you seriously think that's ok ? Or would it perhaps be wiser to simply reserve judgement as regards something that remains..without a doubt...unproven


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 19, 2016)

k12m said:


> 1- where does "anarchist" come from now?
> 2- if we know that the presence of somebody makes others who regularly come to games uncomfortable and the space not safe, then we ask them not to be there.
> What's the issue with that?
> The ground is pretty big for everybody. Just don't stand where you know you're not welcome. Easy.



But what gives you the right to say that at a football match that is open to the public?

Do you identify as anarchist or not?

E2a seems weird that an ex cop is welcome (from the original thread) into a space where people who make anyone uncomfortable are excluded (along with innocent parties with them).


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Survivors of domestic violence who are regular attendees at Clapton feel uncomfortable being in close proximity to a man who they believe, rightly or wrongly, is an abuser. This person, who by all accounts is not a regular attendee or even a Clapton fan, was told on a previous that they werent welcome to stand in the scaffold because it was upsetting people there. I don't think that's unreasonable in itself. Obviously, what happened afterwards was a massive clusterfuck.



it's a football match not a safer space. And the violence meted out leads me to call bullshit on the trigger warning claims.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> So, you wouldnt be fussed if, for example, an organised fascist started cuddling up at your end?



We're now equating organised anti-fascists with organised fascists. Brilliant.

I guess the comparison is that they were organised women abusers?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> I'm hardly weighing in. I have no idea if anyone else has been asked not to stand in the scaffold. You'd really have to ask a regular or someone from CU. I'm coming at this from the perspective of a woman who has lived through domestic violence and also a football fan (not Clapton although to be totally transparent I have been down on a few occasions. They helped out my project collecting and delivering aid to refugees by collecting some sleeping bags, money and one if them drove for us once). I didn't justify the 'scrap' I said it was a clusterfuck. There was absolutely no need for it to get to that level.



Fair enough. I can appreciate, as you said earlier, that:



poptyping said:


> A woman's word is enough for a lot of ppl esp considering the lack of justice for women who have suffered this type of abuse.



There is a difference though between believing a woman who makes an allegation and believing that you have some kind of unique right to police where people stand at a football match though.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> A woman's word is enough for a lot of ppl esp considering the lack of justice for women who have suffered this type of abuse.



To attack a load of people who happen to be with that person? 
Fucking hell. Give me bourgeois justice any day over that.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> CL said it happened and they believe her. A woman's word is enough for a lot of ppl esp considering the lack of justice for women who have suffered this type of abuse.



If, in the unlikely event you believe such a thing as female inflicted domestic abuse even exists, do you reckon a female abuser might be fully aware of what you've just stated ?
How much justice ..much less sympathy or help ..do you reckon there is for male survivors ?

That's an interesting read given the circumstances

Help for Abused Men: Escaping Domestic Violence by Women or Domestic Partners


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 19, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> If, in the unlikely event you believe such a thing as female inflicted domestic abuse even exists, do you reckon a female abuser might be fully aware of what you've just stated ?
> How much justice ..much less sympathy or help ..do you reckon there is for male survivors ?
> 
> That's an interesting read given the circumstances
> ...



Are you a MRA now?


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Youre doing your best to stick the boot in when others have done the work.
> 
> Not a good look.



So Clapton Ultras are the victims now? You should be begging the Cowdenbeath boys for forgiveness, after you've paid the convicted guy's legal fees etc. This incident happened 18 months ago and it isn't going away until it's sorted. 18 fucking months of shame. Clapton will always be toxic now, pure and simple. If you can't see that you're blind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2016)

k12m said:


> You're twisting the truth again.
> There is SH who has been asked not to stand with us, surrounded by his little helpers (we recognised a few) and a lot of other people with RMT armbands.
> Now, as SH is hiding behind what I found out way later it was the Celtic lot, isn't it instinctive to think they're all together and trying to defend the same positions?
> They arrived way before us and it's not a problem of singing for the away team, but just a general attitude of aggressivity, taking over the space with a well planned strategy. The people responsible are NOT the Celtic lot.


As i have said several times, none of you *know* if the incident between sh and cl went down as he says, or as she says. Taking action against someone on that basis solely of a belief isn't something you'd tolerate from the bourgeois court, but you seem quite content to lift yourself into a lofty position and declare you have done no wrong in cu or people associated with cu assaulting him and as in the incident under discussion provoking a fight with people who have come to support Clapton. You may have done all of this with excellent intentions: but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> So, you wouldnt be fussed if, for example, an organised fascist started cuddling up at your end?


You so rarely hear of an organised fascist the situation is unlikely to arise


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> You can wiggle and squirm all you like but you know full well youre chatting bollocks.
> 
> ...and yes I go to Clapton and the bizarre characterisation of hundreds of fans as some homogenous group is ridiculous. You ban valid criticism of Dulwich fans and yet feel free to slag off Clapton.
> 
> Nice double standards.


his so-called double standards better than your own lack of standards


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2016)

poptyping said:


> Survivors of domestic violence who are regular attendees at Clapton feel uncomfortable being in close proximity to a man who they believe, rightly or wrongly, is an abuser. This person, who by all accounts is not a regular attendee or even a Clapton fan, was told on a previous that they werent welcome to stand in the scaffold because it was upsetting people there. I don't think that's unreasonable in itself. Obviously, what happened afterwards was a massive clusterfuck.


I'd be interested in knowing if this was raised with the club in 2014, as it certainly doesn't seem to have been on the day in question.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 19, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> As i have said several times, none of you *know* if the incident between sh and cl went down as he says, or as she says. Taking action against someone on that basis solely of a belief isn't something you'd tolerate from the bourgeois court, but you seem quite content to lift yourself into a lofty position and declare you have done no wrong in cu or people associated with cu assaulting him and as in the incident under discussion provoking a fight with people who have come to support Clapton. You may have done all of this with excellent intentions: but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.



Exactly - and this is also worth repeating to anybody who might be feeling like spinning the daft actions of CU into some form of defence of SH. You don't know what happened, you never will, stop speculating.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 19, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Are you a MRA now?



Most certainly not and never will be.

That's also a completely idiotic and dismissive response to the issue of domestic abuse .


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 19, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Most certainly not and never will be.
> 
> That's also a completely idiotic and dismissive response to the issue of domestic abuse .



18 months of sly wriggling. Bottom line is the Cowdenbeath Flying Column (and some Villa boys, fair play to them) made a 1,000-mile return trip to show solidarity with like-minded people at Clapton etc and offer the hand of friendship, helping with local food banks and so on. That is the bottom line here and nothing is going to change that. Fuck me, if I was Clapton I'd have treated them like kings. Instead you chose to spit on them, attack them, grass them up, secure a conviction. GET A FUCKING GRIP.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 19, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> 18 months of sly wriggling. Bottom line is the Cowdenbeath Flying Column (and some Villa boys, fair play to them) made a 1,000-mile return trip to show solidarity with like-minded people at Clapton etc and offer the hand of friendship, helping with local food banks and so on. That is the bottom line here and nothing is going to change that. Fuck me, if I was Clapton I'd have treated them like kings. Instead you chose to spit on them, attack them, grass them up, secure a conviction. GET A FUCKING GRIP.



Did Clapton know the Cowdenbeath lot were coming? Was it a pre-arranged fraternal visit?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 19, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Most certainly not and never will be.
> 
> That's also a completely idiotic and dismissive response to the issue of domestic abuse .



You're obsession with messianic 'strongmen' like Assad, Putin etc makes sense now.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 19, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Did Clapton know the Cowdenbeath lot were coming? Was it a pre-arranged fraternal visit?



Do they run the football club?
Do they have a constitution and membership?
We appear to be dipping into differing formations when it suits here.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 20, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Do they run the football club?
> Do they have a constitution and membership?
> We appear to be dipping into differing formations when it suits here.



I'm not suggesting they needed permission to attend the game. 

I was just curious as to whether having made this '1000 mile round trip' to meet with 'likeminded people' at Clapton they'd told anyone they were coming? 

Certainly it would look pretty bad for CU if they had.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 20, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> I'm not suggesting they needed permission to attend the game.
> 
> I was just curious as to whether having made this '1000 mile round trip' to meet with 'likeminded people' at Clapton they'd told anyone they were coming?
> 
> Certainly it would look pretty bad for CU if they had.



From memory the trip wasn't specifically about attending Clapton. It was a stop off point as part of a visit / doing other stuff.

Maybe it was deliberately intended to antagonise. Difficult to know the inner workings of others' minds and their motivations but if that's the case CU collaborated in that becoming a success.


----------



## albionism (Sep 20, 2016)

Whenever I read "Scaffold Brigada", I cringe so
hard that my face almost implodes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 20, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> From memory the trip wasn't specifically about attending Clapton. It was a stop off point as part of a visit / doing other stuff.
> 
> Maybe it was deliberately intended to antagonise. Difficult to know the inner workings of others' minds and their motivations but if that's the case CU collaborated in that becoming a success.


The visit had been planned since at least Feb 15 as per London csc post here http:/  /z. 6.invisionfree. .com/  UltrasTifosi/index.php?showtopic=4518&st=21758


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 20, 2016)

ive removed several spaces and a dot and still can't get the link to work.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 20, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> ive removed several spaces and a dot and still can't get the link to work.



http://  z6.invisionfree.com/Ultra. sTifosi/index.php?showtopic=4518&st=21758


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 20, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Are you a MRA now?



What do you mean, "now"?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 20, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> http://  z6.invisionfree.com/Ultra. sTifosi/index.php?showtopic=4518&st=21758



I don't know if that's an announcement per se but if there had been friendly  contact between Cowdenbeath and CU beforehand then the incident definitely reflects badly on CU.


----------



## comrade spurski (Sep 20, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> So, you wouldnt be fussed if, for example, an organised fascist started cuddling up at your end?


Everyone moral I have can been broken if nazis are involved. I would help some one injured in an accident (as I am a trained 1st aider for my job) but not if they were a nazi.
I would help someone being attacked and if I couldn't would call the old bill but would walk on by if it was a nazi being beaten...the list is endless...this is the long winded and polite way of saying your point is ... well... pointless really.


----------



## k12m (Sep 20, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> I don't know if that's an announcement per se but if there had been friendly  contact between Cowdenbeath and CU beforehand then the incident definitely reflects badly on CU.


That's the annoying thing: I haven't heard anybody announcing their presence (I am seriously still amazed when I see people from teams of that size who show interest in an Essex Senior League side, and I am still honoured they did what they did for us), everything seemed to be arranged by somebody who hasn't been at Clapton since we asked SH to stay away from us.
Isn't it weird it happened that way? Doesn't it sound like a bit of a planned trap by some big touchy blokes?
Isn't it funny how happily some people can finally have revenge on us for asking SH to be far from us, twisting and telling half truths and trying to spread rumours with no fundament?
If that fulfills your lives, I can only be sorry for you angry big men.


----------



## westcoast1 (Sep 21, 2016)

k12m said:


> That's the annoying thing: I haven't heard anybody announcing their presence (I am seriously still amazed when I see people from teams of that size who show interest in an Essex Senior League side, and I am still honoured they did what they did for us), everything seemed to be arranged by somebody who hasn't been at Clapton since we asked SH to stay away from us.
> Isn't it weird it happened that way? Doesn't it sound like a bit of a planned trap by some big touchy blokes?
> Isn't it funny how happily some people can finally have revenge on us for asking SH to be far from us, twisting and telling half truths and trying to spread rumours with no fundament?
> If that fulfills your lives, I can only be sorry for you angry big men.



A planned trap? Think you lot need to hold your hands up and say yous fucked up and try to build bridges.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2016)

k12m said:


> That's the annoying thing: I haven't heard anybody announcing their presence (I am seriously still amazed when I see people from teams of that size who show interest in an Essex Senior League side, and I am still honoured they did what they did for us), everything seemed to be arranged by somebody who hasn't been at Clapton since we asked SH to stay away from us.
> Isn't it weird it happened that way? Doesn't it sound like a bit of a planned trap by some big touchy blokes?
> Isn't it funny how happily some people can finally have revenge on us for asking SH to be far from us, twisting and telling half truths and trying to spread rumours with no fundament?
> If that fulfills your lives, I can only be sorry for you angry big men.


Tbh it sounds like you're speaking out of your fundament


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 22, 2016)

So at the end of play we're back to the original deadlock of CU taking responsibility for their actions against Cowdenbeath, and none the wiser why the singer of Crown Court would claim that CU had attacked him and were behind the dossier about him doing the rounds. 
There's a pattern here. Either lots of people like making stuff up about CU or CU do stuff then refuse to own it.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So at the end of play we're back to the original deadlock of CU taking responsibility for their actions against Cowdenbeath, and none the wiser why the singer of Crown Court would claim that CU had attacked him and were behind the dossier about him doing the rounds.
> There's a pattern here. Either lots of people like making stuff up about CU or CU do stuff then refuse to own it.



Youre an idiot.


----------



## smokedout (Sep 22, 2016)

k12m said:


> Still?
> 
> _“….there is a high chance of conviction if this matter was to be taken to Court.
> 
> ...



I don't want to get drawn into this swamp but this should be corrected.  According to the first comment on this libom post, and which seems to be accepted by the alleged victims rep the full statement from the police said:



> "The police would not be able to say whether we believe or not. We are bound by evidential rules of whether we can prove matters beyond reasonable doubt. .We also need to explain to the Cps that there is a high chance of conviction if this matter was to be taken to court.’



For me this is damning.  Let's face it, it's an outright lie.  I don't think that should have a bearing on truth of the allegations, and think she's been let down by her representation to be honest, but what it does mean is that there are people connected to this case who are prepared to deliberate deceive in order to make a case against SH.  And it's pretty hard to ignore that, or not wonder what other lies have been told.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Youre an idiot.



A harsh judgement, but one you're well-qualified to make.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Youre an idiot.



Ouch


----------



## krink (Sep 22, 2016)

I voted out, can I still go to Clapton games? Just that I saw a sticker made by (or promoted by) london afn who, I'm assuming from this thread, are attached to CU. London AFN think I'm a Bigotted Racist E(can't remember) Xenophobic I(dunno again) Twazzock


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 22, 2016)

krink said:


> I voted out, can I still go to Clapton games? Just that I saw a sticker made by (or promoted by) london afn who, I'm assuming from this thread, are attached to CU. London AFN think I'm a Bigotted Racist E(can't remember) Xenophobic I(dunno again) Twazzock



No you can't, and what's more you can expect a ritual denunciation blog post very soon.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 22, 2016)

k12m said:


> That's the annoying thing: I haven't heard anybody announcing their presence (I am seriously still amazed when I see people from teams of that size who show interest in an Essex Senior League side, and I am still honoured they did what they did for us), everything seemed to be arranged by somebody who hasn't been at Clapton since we asked SH to stay away from us.
> Isn't it weird it happened that way? Doesn't it sound like a bit of a planned trap by some big touchy blokes?
> Isn't it funny how happily some people can finally have revenge on us for asking SH to be far from us, twisting and telling half truths and trying to spread rumours with no fundament?
> If that fulfills your lives, I can only be sorry for you angry big men.



Have you considered a job with Labour's Progress organisation?


----------



## two sheds (Sep 22, 2016)

smokedout said:


> I don't want to get drawn into this swamp but this should be corrected.  According to the first comment on this libom post, and which seems to be accepted by the alleged victims rep the full statement from the police said:
> 
> 
> 
> For me this is damning.  Let's face it, it's an outright lie.  I don't think that should have a bearing on truth of the allegations, and think she's been let down by her representation to be honest, but what it does mean is that there are people connected to this case who are prepared to deliberate deceive in order to make a case against SH.  And it's pretty hard to ignore that, or not wonder what other lies have been told.



Yep that is atrocious - and the guy defends it as if he hadn't completely twisted the meaning. 



> The prefix of “…. denotes text is missing. I added this prefix to demonstrate this was so. The portion I removed was of a personal nature to Caroline, and also added nothing nor took anything away from the letter, which very clearly throughout contradicts the claims by Steve Hedley that the Police said Caroline’s allegations were “unfounded”.



Saying he'd added "...." to show text is missing is just slimy. Saying he omitted it because it was a "personal nature to Caroline" was another lie, as was "added nothing nor took anything away from the letter".


----------



## krink (Sep 22, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


> No you can't, and what's more you can expect a ritual denunciation blog post very soon.



ooh goodie! they're my favourite blog posts of all


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 22, 2016)

krink said:


> I voted out, can I still go to Clapton games? Just that I saw a sticker made by (or promoted by) london afn who, I'm assuming from this thread, are attached to CU. London AFN think I'm a Bigotted Racist E(can't remember) Xenophobic I(dunno again) Twazzock


  Where did you see the sticker? Quite a few AFN voted out.


----------



## krink (Sep 22, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Where did you see the sticker? Quite a few AFN voted out.



On one of the london facebook pages. People did ask but go no response from the actual fb page admins. I'll have a look.


----------



## krink (Sep 22, 2016)

it's on a page called london anti-fascists (have trouble with facebook on this old machine). this is the image.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 22, 2016)

krink said:


> it's on a page called london anti-fascists (have trouble with facebook on this old machine). this is the image.
> View attachment 92850



Yep - that's what it says. Seen the picture before but not read the top one. Little bit confused about the 'Leicester Casuals' one myself.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 22, 2016)

krink said:


> it's on a page called london anti-fascists (have trouble with facebook on this old machine). this is the image.
> View attachment 92850


FFS!


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2016)

I'm sure that stickathon makes everyone in the area feel so much safer. And everyone loves sweary lampposts!


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 22, 2016)

krink said:


> I voted out, can I still go to Clapton games? Just that I saw a sticker made by (or promoted by) london afn who, I'm assuming from this thread, are attached to CU. London AFN think I'm a Bigotted Racist E(can't remember) Xenophobic I(dunno again) Twazzock


 
E is for Evil - a nicely theological touch.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

krink said:


> I voted out, can I still go to Clapton games? Just that I saw a sticker made by (or promoted by) london afn who, I'm assuming from this thread, are attached to CU. London AFN think I'm a Bigotted Racist E(can't remember) Xenophobic I(dunno again) Twazzock



Another one believing what they read on the internet as fact. No analysis of who's a stakeholder, what motivations they have and what information theyre privy to.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 22, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm sure that stickathon makes everyone in the area feel so much safer. And everyone loves sweary lampposts!



Stickers build a presence. I'm fairly certain those doing the stickering also put their necks on the line. That's in Camden iirc. I'm not entirely comfortable with London Antifascists getting stick here.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm sure that stickathon makes everyone in the area feel so much safer. And everyone loves sweary lampposts!



Just bear in mind extremely violent and organised fash have talked about paying Dulwich a visit. Ask yourself who monitors them. Who neuters them and who you are pissing on right now.


----------



## JimW (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Just bear in mind extremely violent and organised fash have talked about paying Dulwich a visit. Ask yourself who monitors them. Who neuters them and who you are pissing on right now.


You can't handle the truth!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Just bear in mind extremely violent and organised fash have talked about paying Dulwich a visit. Ask yourself who monitors them. Who neuters them and who you are pissing on right now.


can't think of any time an anti-fascist has 'neutered' a fascist.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Another one believing what they read on the internet as fact. No analysis of who's a stakeholder, what motivations they have and what information theyre privy to.


Anyone who uses the word stakeholder outside the context of vampires deserves shooting.


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Just bear in mind extremely violent and organised fash have talked about paying Dulwich a visit. Ask yourself who monitors them. Who neuters them and who you are pissing on right now.



Oh I think we'll be alright.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 22, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Oh I think we'll be alright.


Yeh with your new stewards. Who else would you cringe behind?


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 22, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh with your new stewards. Who else would you cringe behind?



Cringe? I think not.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 22, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Cringe? I think not.


Cower then.


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 22, 2016)

There's no Leicester Casuals sticker .. there's a Leicester Anti-fascist sticker.. made me reminisce about the time in the mid 90's a group of Leicester Casuals  (Baby Face Squad) decided  to have a pop following a Bloody Sunday March .. they came off second best to say the least


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 22, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Stickers build a presence. I'm fairly certain those doing the stickering also put their necks on the line. That's in Camden iirc. I'm not entirely comfortable with London Antifascists getting stick here.



They do build a presence but it's important to consider what the message is. Suggesting that all Brexiteers are in the fascist camp isn't helpful.


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Just bear in mind extremely violent and organised fash have talked about paying Dulwich a visit. Ask yourself who monitors them. Who neuters them and who you are pissing on right now.


What the fuck are you on about now and what has it to do with sweary stickers?

Oh, and how many times have you seen Clapton this year? Or Dulwich? Or any team?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 22, 2016)

krink said:


> it's on a page called london anti-fascists (have trouble with facebook on this old machine). this is the image.
> View attachment 92850



Almost enough to make you glad you live in an area without an organised left that you get to avoid these stupid sorts of stickers.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

editor said:


> What the fuck are you on about now and what has it to do with sweary stickers?
> 
> Oh, and how many times have you seen Clapton this year? Or Dulwich? Or any team?



You're a rep of Dulwich here. Dulwich that we now know harbours a grass. I would think carefully before continuing.


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> You're a rep of Dulwich here. Dulwich that we now know harbours a grass. I would think carefully before continuing.


Nope, I'm just speaking from myself, sunshine. I don't "rep" anyone. What a silly notion.

But who is the "we" you are referring to here? Where/Who is this person/'grass' that all of Dulwich is supposedly "harbouring"? What the fuck are you talking about? Do you get your kicks from reading all those shitty thug books from the 80s? You sound punch drunk on comic book violence.

Oh, and once again: how many times have you seen Clapton play this year at their ground? Or Dulwich? Or any team?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Oh I think we'll be alright.



Liberal sneering wont help you against tooled up opposition.


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Liberal sneering wont help you against tooled up opposition.


"Tooled up opposition"? See a lot of that at the non league grounds you apparently never actually visit, yes?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

editor said:


> Nope, I'm just speaking from myself, sunshine. I don't "rep" anyone. What a silly notion.
> 
> But who is the "we" you are referring to here? Where/Who is this person that all of Dulwich is supposedly "harbouring"? What the fuck are you talking about? Do you get your kicks from reading all those shitty thug books from the 80s? You sound punch drunk on comic book violence.
> 
> Oh, and once again: how many times have you seen Clapton play this year at their ground? Or Dulwich? Or any team?



You created a Dulwich forum. You publish photos of their matches, you write etc etc. You are representing Dulwich if you like it or not. 

Take some responsibility people are reading this thread that will take the decision to prioritise defending your liberals if the threat arises.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

editor said:


> "Tooled up opposition"? See a lot of that at the non league grounds you apparently never actually visit, yes?



Yea?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 22, 2016)




----------



## tonysingh (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Liberal sneering wont help you against tooled up opposition.



Liberal sneering? That's brilliant. I've been called lots of things, like fundamentalist and extremist recently, but liberal is a new one.

Sneering is accurate though. Because....for the most part we're no a huddled group making veiled threats over the internet and then getting all uppity when it bites us in the arse. That grass you attributed to us? He wasn't proper Dulwich, he's just as much one of your lot too from what I gather. Think upon that.

Tooled up is a point though. I somewhat doubt these right wing chaps you threatened us with will come carrying weapons of any consequence. They'll also be massively outnumbered which nullifies the threat somewhat.




DrRingDing said:


> You created a Dulwich forum. You publish photos of their matches, you write etc etc. You are representing Dulwich if you like it or not.
> 
> Take some responsibility people are reading this thread that will take the decision to prioritise defending your liberals if the threat arises.



Oh no! Who will come and save us now the brave Clapton Ultras are not coming to our rescue? How will we handle ourselves?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Liberal sneering? That's brilliant. I've been called lots of things, like fundamentalist and extremist recently, but liberal is a new one.
> 
> Sneering is accurate though. Because....for the most part we're no a huddled group making veiled threats over the internet and then getting all uppity when it bites us in the arse. That grass you attributed to us? He wasn't proper Dulwich, he's just as much one of your lot too from what I gather. Think upon that.
> 
> ...



I'm not a CU nor am i talking about Clapton.


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm not a CU nor am i talking about Clapton.



We still don't need defending.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> We still don't need defending.



How overweight, out of shape and old are you?


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> How overweight, out of shape and old are you?



A few kilos (maybe 4 or 5), i'm in shape otherwise (I train 5 days a week) and i'm 37.

Any more questions?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> How overweight, out of shape and old are you?





tonysingh said:


> A few kilos (maybe 4 or 5), i'm in shape otherwise (I train 5 days a week) and i'm 37.
> 
> Any more questions?



Post pics so we can decide who is the best


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Post pics so we can decide who is the best



I can only manage clothed ones, so if you were hoping for naughty ones, i'll have to disappoint you.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 22, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> I can only manage clothed ones, so if you were hoping for naughty ones, i'll have to disappoint you.



I'm pretty sure you posted photos some time ago of yourself and youre middle aged, obese and definitely not training 5 days a week.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> How overweight, out of shape and old are you?



At last....


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> You created a Dulwich forum. You publish photos of their matches, you write etc etc. You are representing Dulwich if you like it or not.
> 
> Take some responsibility people are reading this thread that will take the decision to prioritise defending your liberals if the threat arises.


Ah, a football expert, delivering lecture on how I should conduct myself . Remind me: how many times have you seen Clapton play this year at their ground? Or Dulwich? Or any team?


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Yea?


Were you there? Which non league grounds have you been to this year where there has been trouble?


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm pretty sure you posted photos some time ago of yourself and youre middle aged, obese and definitely not training 5 days a week.



What a lovely little man you aren't.

I'm most offended by middle aged tbh. 37 fucking ain't middle aged.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm not a CU nor am i talking about Clapton.


What's your beef?


----------



## two sheds (Sep 22, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> What a lovely little man you aren't.
> 
> I'm most offended by middle aged tbh. 37 fucking ain't middle aged.



yeh, fucking youth


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm pretty sure you posted photos some time ago of yourself and youre middle aged, obese and definitely not training 5 days a week.


Why are you interested in his age, physique and training regime and what possible relevance does it have to this discussion?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 22, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm sure that stickathon makes everyone in the area feel so much safer. And everyone loves sweary lampposts!



You'd swear too if dogs were constantly pissing up you!


----------



## Sparkle Motion (Sep 22, 2016)

Do you not have any concept how parochial and irrelevant this discussion is to 99.9% of non league fans? What an embarrassment.


----------



## alan_ (Sep 22, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> What a lovely little man you aren't.
> 
> I'm most offended by middle aged tbh. 37 fucking ain't middle aged.


Your right its two years over
(three score and ten)


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 22, 2016)

alan_ said:


> Your right its two years over
> (three score and ten)



You can fuck off n'all. 

Middle aged starts in a few years. That's what i'm sticking to.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 23, 2016)

Sparkle Motion said:


> Do you not have any concept how parochial and irrelevant this discussion is to 99.9% of non league fans? What an embarrassment.


Fortunately it's in ukp&p where few of them will see it


----------



## Sweet FA (Sep 23, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> How overweight, out of shape and old are you?





tonysingh said:


> A few kilos (maybe 4 or 5), i'm in shape otherwise (I train 5 days a week) and i'm 37.


You're a big man but you're out of shape etc


----------



## krink (Sep 23, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Another one believing what they read on the internet as fact. No analysis of who's a stakeholder, what motivations they have and what information theyre privy to.



what the fuck does that even mean?


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2016)

krink said:


> what the fuck does that even mean?


It's the daft wittering of someone who fantasies about exciting fisticuffs at non league grounds while knowing precisely nothing about the culture. Have you noticed the way he keeps running away from the simple questions I've asked him:

1. Which non league grounds have you been to this year where there has been trouble?
2. How many times have you seen Clapton play this year at their ground? Or Dulwich? Or any team?


----------



## krink (Sep 23, 2016)

3. Why should I not believe stuff just because it's on the internet? I've read loads of facts on the internet.


----------



## Lucy Fur (Sep 23, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> You're a rep of Dulwich here. Dulwich that we now know harbours a grass. I would think carefully before continuing.


Or what, you'll make some vague assertions that we are about to be visited by tooled up fascists, declare one of us fat and out of shape, bang on about how we harbour grasses, and generally make a dick of your self. Fill your boots if it makes you happy. I'll looking forward to watching a game of football, which is actually the point of going to see Dulwich Hamlet.


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 23, 2016)

Lucy Fur said:


> Or what, you'll make some vague assertions that we are about to be visited by tooled up fascists, declare one of us fat and out of shape, bang on about how we harbour grasses, and generally make a dick of your self. Fill your boots if it makes you happy. I'll looking forward to watching a game of football, which is actually the point of going to see Dulwich Hamlet.



I'm bloody well not fat!

Or middle aged!


----------



## Lucy Fur (Sep 23, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> I'm bloody well not fat!
> 
> Or middle aged!


I know you're not mate, but it's part of DrRingDing s fantasy, so don't spoil  it for him.


----------



## krink (Sep 23, 2016)

I'm nearly 50 and fat. but I'll still have the lot of you slaaaaaags!!! camon!!!!


----------



## two sheds (Sep 23, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> I'm bloody well not fat!
> 
> Or middle aged!


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 23, 2016)

Well this thread got fucking weird... 

Nobody on this thread can stand next to me at the football anymore. And if you don't respect my safe space I won't protect any of you from the hordes of Blackshirts that are roaming round non-league football grounds with hammers and spirit levels and things.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2016)

I'm be bringing my own fencing the next time I'm standing at a football ground, and forming a 3m square exclusion zone to keep out anyone who I feel is not worthy of standing next to me. However, I will include a velvet rope section where selected individuals may be invited to join me.


----------



## Lucy Fur (Sep 23, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm be bringing my own fencing the next time I'm standing at a football ground, and forming a 3m square exclusion zone to keep out anyone who I feel is not worthy of standing next to me. However, I will have include a velvet rope section where selected individuals may be invited to join me.


Tis the only way forward these days. I shall be watching from the safety of my own personal grand stand.


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 23, 2016)

Lucy Fur said:


> Tis the only way forward these days. I shall be watching from the safety of my own personal grand stand.
> View attachment 92917



i watch a lot of games at Guru Nanak FC these days. There's a stand (of sorts) behind one goal, with benches bolted onto the concrete steps and fibreglass walls and roof. Since i'm more often than not the only sad case watching the game, i really do have my own stand.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 23, 2016)

Lucy Fur said:


> Or what, you'll make some vague assertions that we are about to be visited by tooled up fascists, declare one of us fat and out of shape, bang on about how we harbour grasses, and generally make a dick of your self. Fill your boots if it makes you happy. I'll looking forward to watching a game of football, which is actually the point of going to see Dulwich Hamlet.


Ringding seems to be a broken pencil


----------



## JimW (Sep 23, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> i watch a lot of games at Guru Nanak FC these days. There's a stand (of sorts) behind one goal, with benches bolted onto the concrete steps and fibreglass walls and roof. Since i'm more often than not the only sad case watching the game, i really do have my own stand.


"I'll sing on my own, I'll sing on my oooowwwnnn..."


----------



## Lucy Fur (Sep 23, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> i watch a lot of games at Guru Nanak FC these days. There's a stand (of sorts) behind one goal, with benches bolted onto the concrete steps and fibreglass walls and roof. Since i'm more often than not the only sad case watching the game, i really do have my own stand.


Amazing back drop!


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 23, 2016)

Lucy Fur said:


> Amazing back drop!
> View attachment 92920



Yup. 

That's a shot of 'us' scoring. A rare occurence this season, since we've been utterly shit. If we pull out of the relegation zone, and that looks unlikely at the moment, then floodlights are mooted as is concrete steps as terracing down the side this photo is taken from. 

See the big stained glass window under the smaller dome? That's one of the diwan halls, and i like to think of it as my executive box! 

it's also utterly free to watch Guru Nanak play, and you can pop into the gurdwara for a free meal afterwards too. What's not to love? 




JimW said:


> "I'll sing on my own, I'll sing on my oooowwwnnn..."



We had the Sikh derby match the other week v Punjab Utd. We lost rather heavily in front of the biggest crowd i've ever seen there. 64. I counted them.  

I am SO doing the away game. i'll be the Guru Nanak 'firm'.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2016)

Tis the gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## Sparkle Motion (Sep 24, 2016)

Anyone following a non league team and calling them self an ultra, needs to seriously get a grip on reality. There is a reason Whitehawk are one of the most despised clubs in non league; actually I can think of quite a few reasons. Projecting your minority political belief system onto a disinterested sport is just silly. 

Have always had a thing for the whole concept of Guru Nanak. So much nicer then that other club down the road.


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 25, 2016)

Thought I'd share a couple of photos from Guru Nanaks match v those dastardly rapscallions of Stansfeld. I shall speak not of the result.  The below photo is a bit of sexy corner flag porn. The above is a quote I rather like from Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale.


----------



## JimW (Sep 25, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> ...
> 
> 
> View attachment 92985


Worst spot-the-ball comp ever


----------



## jimmer (Sep 25, 2016)




----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 25, 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkC469x8Ns&feature=youtu.be


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 25, 2016)

Trouble on the terraces - UK Indymedia


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 25, 2016)

Trouble on the terraces - UK Indymedia


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkC469x8Ns&feature=youtu.be


Did you know you can embed youtube videos in posts?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Trouble on the terraces - UK Indymedia





The Flying Pig said:


> Trouble on the terraces - UK Indymedia


What point are you trying to make?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 25, 2016)

A background for those that have only a small insight into what happened at clapton.
And is obviously an ongoing problem.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 25, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> A background for those that have only a small insight into what happened at clapton.
> And is obviously an ongoing problem.



By posting an article by well known MRA and all round dirtbag Seamus O'Colgan?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 25, 2016)

Did he make the video up? Did he make up all the responses? I have no idea who Seamus whoever is, but if he is an all round dirtbag I guess he must be a regular at Clupton


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 25, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Did he make the video up? Did he make up all the responses? I have no idea who Seamus whoever is, but if he is an all round dirtbag I guess he must be a regular at Clupton



He cant show his face at clapton but you may be surprised who he got himself in with.....


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 25, 2016)

So that makes the video untrue? or 107 comments made up? I have plenty more, but then again it would all be warped etc.
Why do you think they have been very selective in the people they have outed? I will leave it to Dr ring a ding to investigate and report back. If you do your task properly I assure you everything you obviously think about those self righteous clowns will be blown high out of the water. Now get off the keyboard and start looking under the veneer of whatever the clowns claim to be.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 25, 2016)

Comrade Delta makes an appearance in the comments


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> A background for those that have only a small insight into what happened at clapton.
> And is obviously an ongoing problem.


See? You can say things when you make an effort.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Oct 10, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> So that makes the video untrue? or 107 comments made up? I have plenty more, but then again it would all be warped etc.
> Why do you think they have been very selective in the people they have outed? I will leave it to Dr ring a ding to investigate and report back. If you do your task properly I assure you everything you obviously think about those self righteous clowns will be blown high out of the water. Now get off the keyboard and start looking under the veneer of whatever the clowns claim to be.


So two weeks have passed and still nothing from Dr ding a ling.  Is this because he knows all about clupton and is part of their charade or is it that he has not found the time to look beyond their soundbites?


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 10, 2016)

Charades and clowns? What are you gibbering about? On second thoughts, don't bother.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Oct 11, 2016)

Yesterday at 11:38am ·


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 11, 2016)

Nice to see this not causing any aggro at the Cable  St commemorations.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 11, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> View attachment 92983
> 
> Thought I'd share a couple of photos from Guru Nanaks match v those dastardly rapscallions of Stansfeld. I shall speak not of the result.  The below photo is a bit of sexy corner flag porn. The above is a quote I rather like from Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale.
> 
> ...



What a wonderful picture, I had no idea this pitch existed.

Interesting for a different reason but I love the Braga in Portugal stadium.


----------



## k12m (Oct 12, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Yesterday at 11:38am ·



Good choice of team on the left: my local side Ternana.
The banner on the right was a joke some norwegian fans made when they came to visit.

It's quite sad grown up men make these memes to discredit a group of people.
I seriously feel sorry for them, but well, we're not all the same


----------



## k12m (Oct 12, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Nice to see this not causing any aggro at the Cable  St commemorations.


What do you mean?
From who to who?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> What do you mean?
> From who to who?


you weren't at the cable street do then.


----------



## k12m (Oct 12, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> you weren't at the cable street do then.


Of course I was there with other Clapton Ultras.
I just didn't understand what aggro there could be.
The only one I've seen (if you can call it "aggro") was a BDS woman screaming at some people "Shame on you!".


----------



## cantsin (Oct 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> Good choice of team on the left: my local side Ternana.
> The banner on the right was a joke some norwegian fans made when they came to visit.
> 
> It's quite sad grown up men make these memes to discredit a group of people.
> I seriously feel sorry for them, but well, we're not all the same



no biggy, but who's being discredited here ?


----------



## k12m (Oct 12, 2016)

cantsin said:


> no biggy, but who's being discredited here ?


yeah sorry, it wasn't clear.
The image has been posted on Red London page, which is linked to the big angry men who usually attack Clapton Ultras.
They recycled the image of that banner (which again: was a joke made by some norwegian guys who came to a game) because they say we're "middle class students moderate not enough antifascist bla bla bla"
Poor them, sometimes I feel sorry for them


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> Of course I was there with other Clapton Ultras.
> I just didn't understand what aggro there could be.
> The only one I've seen (if you can call it "aggro") was a BDS woman screaming at some people "Shame on you!".


i am glad you managed to restrain yourself from approaching sh, who was on the march.


----------



## k12m (Oct 12, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i am glad you managed to restrain yourself from approaching sh, who was on the march.


I know he was there and I spotted also some other people I remember.
You've got a strange image of CU. What did you think we could have done?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> I know he was there and I spotted also some other people I remember.
> You've got a strange image of CU. What did you think we could have done?


you could have approached him in the same fraternal spirit which you have previously shown.


----------



## k12m (Oct 12, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> you could have approached him in the same fraternal spirit which you have previously shown.


Exactly what I said: you have a strange image of CU and also this demonstrates you don't know still the reasons why and the way things happened.
You can find in previous posts what I said about it. The only time I approached them to talk I got beers thrown at me.
I'll let them play with the memes as it seems they have fun with it


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> Exactly what I said: you have a strange image of CU and also this demonstrates you don't know still the reasons why and the way things happened.
> You can find in previous posts what I said about it. The only time I approached them to talk I got beers thrown at me.
> I'll let them play with the memes as it seems they have fun with it


so were you lying when you said above that you spoke to people on the scaffold that day and apparently had a good chat with someone, or are you lying now?


----------



## k12m (Oct 12, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> so were you lying when you said above that you spoke to people on the scaffold that day and apparently had a good chat with someone, or are you lying now?


Both happened.
At first I had a beer thrown at me, then everybody moved behind the goal, I decided to stay a bit longer and chat with somebody I knew (and I was sure he would have "defended" me if others on that side would have decided to attack me). I chatted to him for at least 10 minutes, I spoke to his relatives who were there and also to one or two of the Celtic lads (and one was wearing the RMT armband, I asked him why and he said "I don't know what it is, I was given it by somebody").
Hope this clarifies it.


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> What do you mean?
> From who to who?



I meant from anyone to anyone. Given the number of axes being ground amongst all those who call themselves anti fascist it was good to see that everyone approached this event in a comradely fashion.


----------



## cantsin (Oct 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> yeah sorry, it wasn't clear.
> The image has been posted on Red London page, which is linked to the big angry men who usually attack Clapton Ultras.
> They recycled the image of that banner (which again: was a joke made by some norwegian guys who came to a game) because they say we're "middle class students moderate not enough antifascist bla bla bla"
> Poor them, sometimes I feel sorry for them



ah right, got it, ta


----------



## two sheds (Oct 12, 2016)

When I saw the photo I took it that the Norwegians were laughing at themselves rather than at CU.


----------



## k12m (Oct 12, 2016)

two sheds said:


> When I saw the photo I took it that the Norwegians were laughing at themselves rather than at CU.


Which is exactly why the photo was shot.
The issue is how it's used by other people out of context


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> The image has been posted on Red London page, which is linked to the big angry men who usually attack Clapton Ultras.



For accuracy, would these be the 'big angry men' who were attacked BY the Clapton Ultras?


----------



## cantsin (Oct 12, 2016)

k12m said:


> yeah sorry, it wasn't clear.
> The image has been posted on Red London page, which is linked to the big angry men who usually attack Clapton Ultras.
> They recycled the image of that banner (which again: was a joke made by some norwegian guys who came to a game) because they say we're "middle class students moderate not enough antifascist bla bla bla"
> Poor them, sometimes I feel sorry for them



some top tankie bantz on that Red London page


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 12, 2016)

It's a group of people ripping the piss out of stuff, but yeah Marxist-Leninists.


----------



## MrSpikey (Oct 13, 2016)

editor said:


> Cockney Rejects weren't facists but I've no doubt that some of their fans were. But then you could have said that about Madness and the Specials back then.
> 
> Misunderstood or hateful? Oi!'s rise and fall



I enjoyed this, which gives a bit of insight into their position.


----------



## MrSpikey (Oct 13, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> It's a bit sad that this is still the overwhelming 'anti fascist' issue for some on here. So important that they desperatley want to rake the coals of it over and over again.



Not the overwhelming issue, but I can see why some people are interested in an apparent lack of concern over the presence of police informants within a group of anti-fascists; just as people were concerned about groups involved with Searchlight and all that entails. The stakes are high, after all.


----------



## MrSpikey (Oct 13, 2016)

k12m said:


> What should have the statement said?



I used to go to fairly regularly. I wasn't at the game on the day of the SH incident, but people I know were there on the receiving end. Some of these are people I've stood with on anti-fascist actions over a 20+ year period, so I tend to trust their word on how it went down.

What should the statement have said? As a minimum - we condemn the unprovoked attacks against fellow antifascists; and that police informers are not welcome and will be dealt with. The actual statement wasn't anything like that, though.

I haven't been back since, and won't be returning. 

I did get approached after the pre-season incidents that prompted this thread to see if I'd be prepared to turn out to help the CUs out if they were attacked again. I declined, based on the CU statements issued at the time of the SH incident.


----------



## A380 (Oct 15, 2016)

Is this the time to say that this is why I go to watch rugby?

You can drink in the stands and there is a surprisingly very low number of red trousered braying ex public schoolboys now.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 15, 2016)

A380 said:


> Is this the time to say that this is why I go to watch rugby?
> 
> You can drink in the stands and there is a surprisingly very low number of red trousered braying ex public schoolboys now.



You watch rugby to avoid Clapton Ultras?


----------



## J Ed (Oct 15, 2016)

I hear that outside of London, if you are careful then it is possible to watch a football match without tangling with the Clapton Ultras


----------



## The Flying Pig (Oct 16, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> For accuracy, would these be the 'big angry men' who were attacked BY the Clapton Ultras?


And as per usual with the clowns of clupton, once a direct question is asked there is complete silence!


----------



## Joe Reilly (Oct 16, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> And as per usual with the clowns of clupton, once a direct question is asked there is complete silence!


Not the only thread they have gone missing from when asked straightforward questions.


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 16, 2016)

Joe Reilly said:


> Not the only thread they have gone missing from when asked straightforward questions.



How many hours a week do you put in on here?


----------



## Joe Reilly (Oct 16, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> How many hours a week do you put in on here?



Is that really the best you can come up with?


----------



## Casually Red (Oct 16, 2016)

Someone posting on the Internet scoffing at someone for posting on the Internet .

Man shouts wanker at passerby while masturbating furiously.


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 16, 2016)

k12m said:


> Of course I was there with other Clapton Ultras.
> I just didn't understand what aggro there could be.
> The only one I've seen (if you can call it "aggro") was a BDS woman screaming at some people "Shame on you!".



She wasn't screaming at people but a woman who was having a go at her for a pro palestinian banner.


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 16, 2016)

Joe Reilly said:


> Not the only thread they have gone missing from when asked straightforward questions.





Casually Red said:


> Someone posting on the Internet scoffing at someone for posting on the Internet .
> 
> Man shouts wanker at passerby while masturbating furiously.



It was the 'gone missing' that made me smile. Glad you missed me.


----------



## k12m (Oct 18, 2016)

I've got a life and I answered a lot of questions in this thread.
I told you what I've seen, what CU have donw, what we've known and what we decided to do.

If your answers are calling us "Clupton" and keep insulting without facts, I think any person with "half a brain cell" (to quote a friend of mine) would understand who's trying to create problems and who's trying to tell the reality.



The Flying Pig said:


> And as per usual with the clowns of clupton, once a direct question is asked there is complete silence!





Joe Reilly said:


> Not the only thread they have gone missing from when asked straightforward questions.



Why should I still discuss with this kind of people?
Live your own reality, enjoy being strong machos and show how tough you are.
I've got more important things to think about than fighting on the internet for countless hours with you.
Bye Bye! xxx


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> I've got a life and I answered a lot of questions in this thread.
> I told you what I've seen, what CU have donw, what we've known and what we decided to do.
> 
> If your answers are calling us "Clupton" and keep insulting without facts, I think any person with "half a brain cell" (to quote a friend of mine) would understand who's trying to create problems and who's trying to tell the reality.
> ...


Ta-ra chuck


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> I've got a life and I answered a lot of questions in this thread.
> I told you what I've seen, what CU have donw, what we've known and what we decided to do.
> 
> If your answers are calling us "Clupton" and keep insulting without facts, I think any person with "half a brain cell" (to quote a friend of mine) would understand who's trying to create problems and who's trying to tell the reality.
> ...



So you're refusing to answer my question in post #1170 on the basis that other people who aren't me have been rude about CU? 
Cop out.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you're refusing to answer my question in post #1170 on the basis that other people who aren't me have been rude about CU?
> Cop out.


Brave sir km ran away
Bravely ran away away
When danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled 

Etc


----------



## k12m (Oct 18, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you're refusing to answer my question in post #1170 on the basis that other people who aren't me have been rude about CU?
> Cop out.



When I said I explained all I knew and all the reasons, your question is a clear example useless questions. It's clear you're turning my words upside down.
I told you how it went, you might disagree but I am not going to explain again the whole story. Just scroll through the topic and you'll find everything.



Pickman's model said:


> Brave sir km ran away
> Bravely ran away away
> When danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled
> Etc


Seriously, are you saying I'm running away?
Never did in real life, I don't do it online 
What else is not clear from the 47 messages I posted on this board?

Again, you keep repeating your funny doggerels. I told you anything I know. What's the point of being sarcastic about my message?

(i confess i had to google for the translation of "doggerel")


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> When I said I explained all I knew and all the reasons, your question is a clear example useless questions. It's clear you're turning my words upside down.
> I told you how it went, you might disagree but I am not going to explain again the whole story. Just scroll through the topic and you'll find everything.
> 
> 
> ...


So your bye bye bit was but bollocks


----------



## k12m (Oct 18, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> So your bye bye bit was but bollocks


Wow you won!!
WELL DONE!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> Wow you won!!
> WELL DONE!!


Yeh? I win for pointing out you're talking bollocks? Pity I didn't win when I showed your account inconsistent with the cu statement.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 18, 2016)

k12m said:


> When I said I explained all I knew and all the reasons, your question is a clear example useless questions. It's clear you're turning my words upside down.
> I told you how it went, you might disagree but I am not going to explain again the whole story. Just scroll through the topic and you'll find everything.



Simpler to answer the question rather than evade it and demand I traipse about looking for it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Simpler to answer the question rather than evade it and demand I traipse about looking for it?


Yeh but after traipsing you will likely have a more honest answer


----------



## J Ed (Oct 22, 2016)

Will just leave this here....


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Will just leave this here....



You lurking in the compost?


----------



## J Ed (Oct 22, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> You lurking in the compost?



Yes, I am nicking all the shit vegetables he grows like kale and turnips


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 23, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Yes, I am nicking all the shit vegetables he grows like kale and turnips



Is it anyone in particular?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Is it anyone in particular?


you don't recognize the Dear Leader? to the gulag with you


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> you don't recognize the Dear Leader? to the gulag with you



Maybe I'll lend him my strimmer in lieu of time served. Looks like he could do with it.  (Whoever they are).


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Maybe I'll lend him my strimmer in lieu of time served. Looks like he could do with it.  (Whoever they are).


squint. Its the leader of the labour party, one J Corbyn


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> squint. Its the leader of the labour party, one J Corbyn



So it is. If he gets a weed notice then I'll take it as final proof of his incorruptibilty.


----------



## hipipol (Oct 23, 2016)

Clapton???
Ultras?
They play in Forest gate, have never been based anywhere near Clapton, but use the name. Are they a team of Estate Agents perhaps?
How bizarre
Dougies was the danger spot why I lived there ( Clapton, the REAL place, in the 80s) and NOBODY threw beer about - too expensive.....
This Gentrification bollocks seem to have had some very strange side effects


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2016)

hipipol said:


> Clapton???
> Ultras?
> They play in Forest gate, have never been based anywhere near Clapton, but use the name. Are they a team of Estate Agents perhaps?
> How bizarre
> ...


Hackney Downs not near Clapton?


----------



## hipipol (Oct 23, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Hackney Downs not near Clapton?


According to the official Tons website, the year they were formed they moved to their current location implying that their connection with hackney in any form was somewhat tenuous......


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2016)

hipipol said:


> According to the official Tons website, the year they were formed they moved to their current location implying that their connection with hackney in any form was somewhat tenuous......


You don't know where millfields is, do you. It's definitely in Hackney... And that, not the spotted dog, is where they moved in 1880 according to Wikipedia.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2016)

hipipol said:


> According to the official Tons website, the year they were formed they moved to their current location implying that their connection with hackney in any form was somewhat tenuous......


The 1887 is obviously a typo as even a tyro could tell


----------



## hipipol (Oct 23, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> You don't know where millfields is, do you. It's definitely in Hackney... And that, not the spotted dog, is where they moved in 1880 according to Wikipedia.


Well someone better tell them they've been playing on the wrong ground for the last 130+ years....
History of Clapton Football Club - from their official site
A quick check on the map puts them no more than half a mile from the old Hammers ground - I cant see THEM ever  claiming to have been based in Hackney


----------



## hipipol (Oct 23, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> The 1887 is obviously a typo as even a tyro could tell


I agree that I am new to any knowledge of this club but oddly I suspect that many would tend to the notion that if its on their official site it must have been checked by someone who knows about said club
So, Wiki is more accurate then?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2016)

hipipol said:


> Well someone better tell them they've been playing on the wrong ground for the last 130+ years....
> History of Clapton Football Club - from their official site
> A quick check on the map puts them no more than half a mile from the old Hammers ground - I cant see THEM ever  claiming to have been based in Hackney


The brief history on their website does not seem wholly accurate.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2016)

hipipol said:


> I agree that I am new to any knowledge of this club but oddly I suspect that many would tend to the notion that if its on their official site it must have been checked by someone who knows about said club
> So, Wiki is more accurate then?


I believe it to be


----------



## hipipol (Oct 23, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> I believe it to be


Well it had to happen sometime eh?
Interesting that Arsenal dropped the Woolwich part when they moved, Millwall and Clapton did not
I'd like to see the revival of Nunhead Town


----------



## JimW (Oct 24, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> squint. Its the leader of the labour party, one J Corbyn


He said he'd come and support our local team (his mate our old MP is on the board) when he toured my works earlier this year, the flip-flopping flip-flop wearer.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Oct 29, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> So two weeks have passed and still nothing from Dr ding a ling.  Is this because he knows all about clupton and is part of their charade or is it that he has not found the time to look beyond their soundbites?


So five week s have gone by and still no valid answer from Dr Ding a Ling.


----------



## juice_terry (Nov 23, 2016)

That's my Stag Do plans fucked now 
This is Not a Stag Party Venue - Clapton Ultras

[emoji13][emoji13]


.


----------



## juice_terry (Nov 23, 2016)

So how do you remind them ? Spit on them and throw beer .. 


.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 23, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> So how do you remind them ? Spit on them and throw beer ..
> 
> 
> .



Pretty territorial and authoritarian for folk who probably campaign against borders and perhaps identify as anarchist.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 23, 2016)

Does this mean refugees aren't welcome on the scaffold?


----------



## juice_terry (Nov 23, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Does this mean refugees aren't welcome on the scaffold?


Not if they're going to talk throughout the game [emoji13]


.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 23, 2016)

What does the club say about it?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 23, 2016)

Change the word scaffold to country and Clapton ultras to English and what are we looking at?


----------



## LiamO (Nov 23, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> So how do you remind them ? Spit on them and throw beer ..
> 
> 
> .



LMFAO

Shurely time for the Weekly Worker to publish "Clapton Clownshow - the Definitive Ultra's Guide" complete with approved/unapproved songs, chants, slogans, attitudes and body language.

Any suggestions for the sections?


----------



## LiamO (Nov 23, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Does this mean refugees aren't welcome on the scaffold?



Only if they have read the Official Behaviour and Attitudes Code and signed it in their own blood.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 23, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Change the word scaffold to country and Clapton ultras to English and what are we looking at?


Urban


----------



## LiamO (Nov 23, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Does this mean refugees aren't welcome on the scaffold?



On second thoughts... given that refugees (other than Clownfront's homegrown 'refugees from reality') would most probably not be conversing in english... and that their conversation, attitudes and language might be somewhat difficult to monitor for 'appropriateness' ... maybe best if they stay at home.

But then again, refugees would get extra intersectional Brownie points so maybe they _could _come along ... as long as they stand in their own fenced-off and appropriately signed section. And of course as they submit english translations for anything they wish to shout, in advance. For approval. 

Or maybe just get them to wear a brightly coloured symbol so Ultras would know that they are special ( perhaps a yellow triangle or pink star might be nice)


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 23, 2016)

LiamO said:


> On second thoughts... given that refugees (other than Clownfront's homegrown 'refugees from reality') would most probably not be conversing in english... and that their conversation, attitudes and language might be somewhat difficult to monitor for 'appropriateness' ... maybe best if they stay at home.
> 
> But then again, refugees would get extra intersectional Brownie points so maybe they _could _come along ... as long as they stand in their own fenced-off and appropriately signed section. And of course as they submit english translations for anything they wish to shout, in advance. For approval.
> 
> Or maybe just get them to wear a brightly coloured symbol so Ultras would know that they are special ( perhaps a yellow triangle or pink star might be nice)



Now there's a thought. Maybe it's only people from the local area who have to fuck off elsewhere in the ground for daring to <gasp!> talk to a mate in the incorrectly designated part of the ground.
Especially if they can't hear the conversation above their rapturous singing, how can they be sure if the conversation is safe or not?


----------



## cantsin (Nov 23, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Pretty territorial and authoritarian for folk who probably campaign against borders and perhaps identify as anarchist.



not wanting militantly, ideologically right wing ( Interview :: Frank Turner (Yes, Again) Part 1 | Moon & Back Music ) divvy posh blokes with zero interest in football on your terrace / on your little manor, such as it is, seems pretty understandable under the circumstances. 

The idea that this is somehow comparable / equivalent, in any way, shape or form, to anti refugee / immigrant attitude, doesn't even need addressing really does it, just daft .


----------



## cantsin (Nov 23, 2016)

LiamO said:


> On second thoughts... given that refugees (other than Clownfront's homegrown 'refugees from reality') would most probably not be conversing in english... and that their conversation, attitudes and language might be somewhat difficult to monitor for 'appropriateness' ... maybe best if they stay at home.
> 
> But then again, refugees would get extra intersectional Brownie points so maybe they _could _come along ... as long as they stand in their own fenced-off and appropriately signed section. And of course as they submit english translations for anything they wish to shout, in advance. For approval.
> 
> Or maybe just get them to wear a brightly coloured symbol so Ultras would know that they are special ( perhaps a yellow triangle or pink star might be nice)



great stuff


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 23, 2016)

cantsin said:


> not wanting militantly, ideologically right wing ( Interview :: Frank Turner (Yes, Again) Part 1 | Moon & Back Music ) divvy posh blokes with zero interest in football on your terrace / on your little manor, such as it is, seems pretty understandable under the circumstances.
> 
> The idea that this is somehow comparable / equivalent, in any way, shape or form, to anti refugee / immigrant attitude, doesn't even need addressing really does it, just daft .



I was going by the quote given, Captain Defensive.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 23, 2016)

Clapton clowns. Know nothing about football, most don't even come from East London, claim a small non league club as their own when it already has an owner in place and then set safer spaces rules for their silly little shed. The funniest part is they actually take themselves for real and cannot see the irony of it all.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 23, 2016)

Where is ding a ling when you need them?


----------



## alan_ (Nov 23, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Where is ding a ling when you need them?


What? My ding a ling ?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 23, 2016)

alan_ said:


> What? My ding a ling ?


Dr ring a ding spokes person for himself. He could huff & bluff some info on what exactly occured at "the Dog". As long as no one asks any direct questions.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 24, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> .


Good. God.


----------



## alan_ (Nov 24, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Dr ring a ding spokes person for himself. He could huff & bluff some info on what exactly occured at "the Dog". As long as no one asks any direct questions.


Well thats OK then. I dont want you to be playing with my Ding a ling


----------



## cantsin (Nov 24, 2016)

Wilf said:


> Good. God.



must admit. my only visit to Clapton was with a couple of mates I hadnt seen for ages, and involved standing on the edge of the Scaffold, drinking lager + catching up / blathering....would have fallen well foul of that particular edict....seems a bit silly tbh .


----------



## Wilf (Nov 24, 2016)

An antifascist VIP area. Good. God. Again.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 24, 2016)

What's k12m 's thoughts on the matter?


----------



## Sweet FA (Nov 24, 2016)

This thread's theme tune.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2016)

Sweet FA said:


> This thread's theme tune.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2016)

Sweet FA said:


> This thread's theme tune.


----------



## T & P (Nov 24, 2016)

I see Clapton Ultras have made it into The Fiver today...

The Fiver | Finally knocking his playing career on the head


----------



## not-bono-ever (Nov 24, 2016)

I know nothing about Clapton Ultras. but now I have skimmed this thread, I am determined to have my stag do at their ground. if I ever get married again. and decide to have a stag do ( which I didn't before)


----------



## JimW (Nov 24, 2016)

T & P said:


> I see Clapton Ultras have made it into The Fiver today...
> 
> The Fiver | Finally knocking his playing career on the head


One for the Guardian is shit thread too, they claim they're linking to the club's response but it's the Ultras site not the club.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What's k12m 's thoughts on the matter?


is k12m any relation of longterm poster mk12? i think we should be tolled.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2016)

Sweet FA said:


> This thread's theme tune.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2016)

Out of curiosity have Ultras or hoolies supporting other teams, such as Barking & Dagenham, West ham, Leyton orient or Chelsea taken to the Internet to announce which parts of those team's grounds they favour and so are off limits to people who like to chat a bit during games?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 24, 2016)

The problem is those teams don't have a scaffold. If they did it'd probably happen. Not least because, dress it up as you like but, who is hard enough to want to stand around on a grey Saturday when it's drizzling?


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 24, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Out of curiosity have Ultras or hoolies supporting other teams, such as Barking & Dagenham, West ham, Leyton orient or Chelsea taken to the Internet to announce which parts of those team's grounds they favour and so are off limits to people who like to chat a bit during games?


When I occasionally go to Goodison Park on my brothers ticket I get to sit next to a priest in the Gwladys Street. He's old-school scouse/Irish and he swears like a cunt at the footy. He says it's his only sin. I only go there to chat to him  not watch the football on the pitch or join in with "If yer know yer history...."

The gentrification of lower league football and all these pretend ultras is quite amusing really.


----------



## Red Sky (Nov 24, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> That's my Stag Do plans fucked now
> This is Not a Stag Party Venue - Clapton Ultras
> 
> [emoji13][emoji13]
> ...



This is properly fucking funny.


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2016)

So it's an 'inclusive'  'community' football club, but one that has a private standing area that's only for the approved political elite? They may as well go the whole hog and get a velvet rope and some bouncers installed around their VIP Ultras area.


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2016)

friedaweed said:


> The gentrification of lower league football and all these pretend ultras is quite amusing really.


Lower league football is being _'gentrified'_? How, exactly?

Admission prices look pretty much the same low cost to me and a cup of tea rarely exceeds £1.


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 24, 2016)

editor said:


> Lower league football is being _'gentrified'_? How, exactly?
> 
> Admission prices look pretty much the same low cost to me and a cup of tea rarely exceeds £1.


Beards and frothycapalapachinos Ed. I was at Shrewsbury Town the other week mate and there was a guy in front of me complaining about the quality of the stands black Americana coffee. It took me a while to explain, and he seem quite shocked when he spat it, about how they make Bovril from dead animals carcasses 

His mate had even put milk in his by then


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 24, 2016)

friedaweed said:


> Beards and frothycapalapachinos Ed. I was at Shrewsbury Town the other week mate and there was a guy in front of me complaining about the quality of the stands black Americana coffee. It took me a while to explain, and he seem quite shocked when he spat it, about how they make Bovril from dead animals carcasses
> 
> His mate had even put milk in his by then


Excellent work there, Frieda


----------



## editor (Nov 25, 2016)

friedaweed said:


> Beards and frothycapalapachinos Ed. I was at Shrewsbury Town the other week mate and there was a guy in front of me complaining about the quality of the stands black Americana coffee. It took me a while to explain, and he seem quite shocked when he spat it, about how they make Bovril from dead animals carcasses
> 
> His mate had even put milk in his by then


I don't think he's representative on anything but the tiniest minority of non league football crowds. Even the supposedly 'hipster' Hamlet only serve basic standard tea/coffee and I can't see too many baristas manning the tea bars at any ground I've ever been to.

Bovril is fucking horrible, mind. Call it Beef Liquor and it may catch on with the beardy mob,


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 25, 2016)

Middle class privilege.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 25, 2016)

In the comments they're saying it's 'disrespectful' to turn up if you don't like football. For real? I've been to hundreds of places/events that I don't particularly like, mostly to please others. If everyone had to absolutely love everything you'd never go anywhere.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 25, 2016)

plymouth argyll vs cobblers for the charity windshield cup. Once and only match. Everyone was talking, admittedly most were talking about better matches.

Never again.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

I knew you would talk about it so here I am to respond to it :-D

Do you want my honest PERSONAL opinion?
I think the post is not worded really well, but I agree with the general message.
I think friedaweed point is quite poignant of what pisses me off and why I think the post on the blog is not completely wrong.
I personally can't stand anymore people who come to "our" stand only to take a selfie, have a chat, not caring about the football and see football supporters as some sort of entertainment to tick off their "100 things to do in London". We seriously try hard to engage people, but how can you stay nice and quiet when people literally pour beer on your head after a goal or start being really abusive and "uncivilised" because they think that's the way you behave with football supporters?

Is it so much to ask people to be there and support the team?


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> I knew you would talk about it so here I am to respond to it :-D
> 
> Do you want my honest PERSONAL opinion?
> I think the post is not worded really well, but I agree with the general message.
> ...


Only wanting 100% dedicated 'real' fans to turn up and shunning anyone who dares show up just to see if they like it or not - or maybe just for a different afternoon out - is elitist, snobbish and short sighted. 

When I first went to Hamlet, I didn't pay a lot of attention to the game. I was busy taking advantage of the fact I could drink beer by the pitchside and I was enjoying chatting to people I met. And that's what football is at this level to me: football, friendship and community. Fuck precious little '_real fans only_' standing areas for the elite in near-empty grounds. It's ridiculous.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> I knew you would talk about it so here I am to respond to it :-D
> 
> Do you want my honest PERSONAL opinion?
> I think the post is not worded really well, but I agree with the general message.
> ...



Either way, it's not going to work is it? People aren't going to take instruction from some self-important Facebook/blogpost announcement so what's the point?


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> I knew you would talk about it so here I am to respond to it :-D
> 
> Do you want my honest PERSONAL opinion?
> I think the post is not worded really well, but I agree with the general message.
> ...



Were the people that attacked Steve Hedley there to support the team?


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

You see, I write something and you just read it as you want going all the way to the extremes.
My issue is with people who clearly take the piss and are there because they can afford to do so and because it's "a cool thing to do".

editor as an Hamlet fan you should I understand what I mean. People put a lot of efforts in what we do with CU, with connections with charities, trying to get well with the team and stuff...I am sure you do the same at your club. Haven't you ever got annoyed about the "football tourists"?

We don't want 100% dedicated fans, but just people who want to stick together, get behind the team and have fun TOGETHER. 
The photos of the crowd, for example, are annoying in my opinion for two reasons: the first one is not everybody wants to be in somebody else's photo, but the other one is that it highlights the attitude of being "an audience of an audience". I'd like people to join in, get engaged and enjoy their day there. The walls are usually built by others who clearly don't give a shit about anything happening around them, having their chat, beer and photo taken in the middle of a space where people usually sing and watch the game. I am not saying they shouldn't come to Clapton, but maybe move a bit on the side? Not where the loudest fans are?
It happens in every stadium.

---I DON'T WANT THE FOLLOWING TO HAPPEN---
In Italy you get people coming to you, grabbing you from the neck and tell you off if you're in an Ultras section not singing.
I DON'T want that to happen at all, but I grew up in that environment and for me it's weird to be at football without acknowledging at all whatever happens around you.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> Were the people that attacked Steve Hedley there to support the team?


fuck right off


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> fuck right off



What about blairites? Are they welcome?


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> You see, I write something and you just read it as you want going all the way to the extremes.
> My issue is with people who clearly take the piss and are there because they can afford to do so and because it's "a cool thing to do".
> 
> editor as an Hamlet fan you should I understand what I mean. People put a lot of efforts in what we do with CU, with connections with charities, trying to get well with the team and stuff...I am sure you do the same at your club. Haven't you ever got annoyed about the "football tourists"?
> ...



So what's your definition of people, "clearly taking the piss"?  How should people act at a sparsely attended non league match and who gets to decide what this 'acceptable' conduct should be? Why should people all be expected to 'get behind the team' if they've just come down to watch a game with their mates?  It very much sounds like you're making up a set of authoritarian rules telling people how they should act just because they've decided to watch a small non league team. It's all a bit silly, really.



k12m said:


> The photos of the crowd, for example, are annoying in my opinion for two reasons: the first one is not everybody wants to be in somebody else's photo, but the other one is that it highlights the attitude of being "an audience of an audience".


You get 'annoyed' at photos of a crowd? Jesus. You are a fucking precious one.

I always take photos of the crowd at Hamlet and almost without exception people love having their photo taken because they're enjoying themselves and they love seeing themselves as part of a big crowd getting behind the team. You know, having this fun that you were going on about. And of course, if anyone says they don't want to be in the photo, I'm more than happy to not use that one.

And guess what - other people then see those photos of people all having fun getting behind Hamlet and they decide to come along too, and before you know it the club has a massively growing attendance where people come back time and time again because it's fun.

I can't say CU sound a lot of fun with all these bizarre rules about not being allowed to stand in certain areas of a near deserted ground or with new fans being heavily obliged to get behind a team they've just come along to see and then being frowned at if they dare to take a photo.

But then maybe you don't actually want new 'non-approved' fans coming along and you just like to keep it super cliquey.


----------



## JimW (Nov 28, 2016)

I've been "Face in the Crowd" twice in Nailsworth News this season which would get me a free match ticket only this year I got a season ticket  Could pick it up for my brother-in-law I suppose.


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

editor said:


> So what's your definition of people, "clearly taking the piss"?  How should people act at a sparsely attended non league match and who gets to decide what this 'acceptable' conduct should be? Why should people all be expected to 'get behind the team' if they've just come down to watch a game with their mates?  It very much sounds like you're making up a set of authoritarian rules telling people how they should act just because they've decided to watch a small non league team. It's all a bit silly, really.
> 
> You get 'annoyed' at photos of a crowd? Jesus. You are a fucking precious one.
> 
> ...



I think they don't like having their photo taken because its more a political demo and less a football match.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

JimW said:


> I've been "Face in the Crowd" twice in Nailsworth News this season which would get me a free match ticket only this year I got a season ticket  Could pick it up for my brother-in-law I suppose.


THE BASTARDS!


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> I think they don't like having their photo taken because its more a political demo and less a football match.


Oh really? So what is the demo about? Who is it against?

And you'd have to be spectacularly fucking naive to think that if 'The Man' wanted pictures of their supporters, they couldn't find a way to do it without recourse to inviting a photographer along. If The Man is remotely interested in photographing them, of course.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2016)

JimW said:


> I've been "Face in the Crowd" twice in Nailsworth News this season which would get me a free match ticket only this year I got a season ticket  Could pick it up for my brother-in-law I suppose.


How big was the crowd?


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

editor said:


> Oh really? So what is the demo about? Who is it against?
> 
> And you'd have to be spectacularly fucking naive to think that if 'The Man' wanted pictures of their supporters, they couldn't find a way to do it without recourse to inviting a photographer along. If The Man is remotely interested in photographing them, of course.



Woah!

I'm agreeing with you.  And they blur out their faces in a lot of their photos so they are obviously worried about it.

And the demo is against anyone they don't allow to stand in their scaffold.


----------



## JimW (Nov 28, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> How big was the crowd?


It's usually between 1600 and just over two thousand. ETA Looking it up it's dipped down to 1300 odd a couple of times early in the season too and one of just 1100.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> Woah!
> 
> I'm agreeing with you.  And they blur out their faces in a lot of their photos so they are obviously worried about it.
> 
> And the demo is against anyone they don't allow to stand in their scaffold.


I'm going to start taking photos of myself and then blur them out. Take that Fascist Fuzz!


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)




----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

That flag at the front looks awful familar!


----------



## chilango (Nov 28, 2016)

I've been welcomed heartily as an actual "football tourist" by fans (including some pretty lively Ultras groups) of all kinds of clubs big and small all over the place.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 28, 2016)

chilango said:


> I've been welcomed heartily as an actual "football tourist" by fans (including some pretty lively Ultras groups) of all kinds of clubs big and small all over the place.


Maybe the Scaffold should be on tripadviser?


----------



## chilango (Nov 28, 2016)

Wilf said:


> Maybe the Scaffold should be on tripadviser?



Is this close enough?

The Crooked Billet, London - Restaurant Reviews & Photos - TripAdvisor


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 28, 2016)

I assume they don't want fash getting hold of the pictures to try and identify them. Which raises the question of why be a highly publicised Ultras group if you need to maintain your anonymity? 

If I was a local I'd be fizzing at being told where I can and can't stand by people from outside the area. And it's ironic really that any 'tourism' has probably come about by the existence of the Ultras themselves.


----------



## strung out (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> In Italy you get people coming to you, grabbing you from the neck and tell you off if you're in an Ultras section not singing.
> I DON'T want that to happen at all, but I grew up in that environment and for me it's weird to be at football without acknowledging at all whatever happens around you.


Not being funny, but you're Clapton, not fucking Lazio.


----------



## JimW (Nov 28, 2016)

chilango said:


> I've been welcomed heartily as an actual "football tourist" by fans (including some pretty lively Ultras groups) of all kinds of clubs big and small all over the place.


Exactly. Done the same myself and been the welcomer with the odd lost soul who drifts on to the South Stand.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I assume they don't want fash getting hold of the pictures to try and identify them. Which raises the question of why be a highly publicised Ultras group if you need to maintain your anonymity?
> 
> If I was a local I'd be fizzing at being told where I can and can't stand by people from outside the area. And it's ironic really that any 'tourism' has probably come about by the existence of the Ultras themselves.



What's the title of the topic? Maybe it makes sense re-reading it and link the "please no photos" issue with that?
We always kindly ask people explaining why we don't like our faces all over the internet, and people are 99% of the times really nice and understanding.



strung out said:


> Not being funny, but you're Clapton, not fucking Lazio.


What did I write?
Don't cut messages. I said that's how I grew up, I know it's not applicable and I don't want it to happen here. Just saying how I always lived football. (And btw fuck Lazio scum)


editor I thought you'd read better messages being an admin, doesn't seem so. I explained before what i mean with people taking the piss. Had to physically stop people pouring beer on others heads "for fun", guys pushing and grabbing women, abusive language etc.... If they don't fit in that space and they're not respectful they can stay in their favourite cafe with free wifi drinking a latte, I'll happily pay for their coffee!

The issue is that I don't want to please anybody. I don't want to convince you and I am happy if you're happy to live your life without Clapton. 
Funny enough though, in this country, you all like to give your opinion and tell others how they should do stuff you don't engage with. I am at CU and I have the right to tell people coming there how I'd like them to respect the others around them. You are at Hamlet, do the fuck you want at Hamlet, but feel the need to tell people at Clapton what to do. Brilliant.
I've never been to Dulwich Hamlet for a game, I am not planning to go any time soon and I don't care about how/what you do. I honestly wish you'll win your wars agains developers and other vultures and you'll manage to keep your team alive, but I am not going to tell you how to do that.
Live and let live (or fuck off).


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 28, 2016)

People pouring beer on others doesn't have much to do with the blog posts people have quoted does it. If they'd posted that people would think 'fair enough.' Well they'd ignore it but still.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> I explained before what i mean with people taking the piss. Had to physically stop people pouring beer on others heads "for fun", guys pushing and grabbing women, abusive language etc.... If they don't fit in that space and they're not respectful they can stay in their favourite cafe with free wifi drinking a latte, I'll happily pay for their coffee!


 Don't have a dog in this fight and all that. However I would put 2 penneth in on the above. Yes, fine and good if there are people there willing to challenge shit behaviour (really). But it becomes a bit more problematic if this becomes an 'area' where these things are not permitted, an area that you _own_. Why not challenge it wherever you are, as other football fans do? This whole uneasy mix of safe space ideology and football turf war stuff doesn't seem all that productive to me. Or, for that matter a good way of engaging with other fans who are not in with the in crowd.


----------



## magneze (Nov 28, 2016)

How long is the bar queue?


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> editor I thought you'd read better messages being an admin, doesn't seem so. I explained before what i mean with people taking the piss. Had to physically stop people pouring beer on others heads "for fun", guys pushing and grabbing women, abusive language etc..


So how often has this bizarre conduct taken place at Clapton? You see, I've been going to football games for decades, and the amount of times I've seen people 'pouring beer on others heads for fun' is almost non existent. So how many times did it happen at Clapton? And how often are men going about 'pushing and grabbing women'? And why are they acting in such an odd manner?

It seems very, very strange for such a tiny club to have such a high incidence of unpleasant incidents like you describe.

Given the fact that it is so out of the ordinary, have you any idea why Clapton may be attracting such a disproportionately high number of women-grabbing beer pourers?



k12m said:


> You are at Hamlet, do the fuck you want at Hamlet, but feel the need to tell people at Clapton what to do. Brilliant.


Precisely where have I told 'people at Clapton' what to do?  Why are you making stuff up?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2016)

chilango said:


> Is this close enough?
> 
> The Crooked Billet, London - Restaurant Reviews & Photos - TripAdvisor


marty21


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> I knew you would talk about it so here I am to respond to it :-D
> 
> Do you want my honest PERSONAL opinion?
> I think the post is not worded really well, but I agree with the general message.
> ...


Nice to see some honesty


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

Wilf said:


> Don't have a dog in this fight and all that. However I would put 2 penneth in on the above. Yes, fine and good if there are people there willing to challenge shit behaviour (really). But it becomes a bit more problematic if this becomes an 'area' where these things are not permitted, an area that you _own_. Why not challenge it wherever you are, as other football fans do? This whole uneasy mix of safe space ideology and football turf war stuff doesn't seem all that productive to me. Or, for that matter a good way of engaging with other fans who are not in with the in crowd.


If I understood what you mean, the main issue is that sometimes because of a few annoying people, many can't have a good time. I got to chat to many people who came to the games for the first time, who weren't singing, having a good time and enjoy the day. Nothing wrong with that. 
As said, there's many who are really unrespectful and think we're just a bunch of monkeys to entertain them. That's the people we tried to hit with the blog post.
Everybody knows we're good with whoever is good with us.



magneze said:


> How long is the bar queue?


Short as we are trying to give the owner less money as possible. But that's another story and there will be some updates in the next weeks...



editor said:


> So how often has this bizarre conduct taken place at Clapton? You see, I've been going to football games for decades, and the amount of times I've seen people 'pouring beer on others heads for fun' is almost non existent. So how many times did it happen at Clapton? It seems very, very strange for such a tiny club to have such a high incidence of unpleasant incidents like you describe.
> 
> Given the fact that it is so out of the ordinary, have you any idea why Clapton may be attracting such a disproportionately high number of women-grabbing beer pourers?
> 
> Precisely where have I told 'people at Clapton' what to do?  Why are you making stuff up?



It attracts people who behave like idiots because "Clapton is the new fun thing to do". I don't like that and I'd rather have few committed and engaged people rather than a lot of new comers who wouldn't probably even come back anymore. We (CU) don't get a penny from turnstiles and I think that kills everything about the football. Isn't it a premier league game experience ins a tiny small scale? all those random people with half/half scarves who are going to chelsea for a game, completely unaware of what happens around them, killing the atmosphere and ruining it for life long supporters (who often cannot even afford the games anymore)?

Regarding the "telling others what to do", I am just so fed up of this country sometimes I'd like to leave it. The way brits discuss, argue, comment on everything, give their opinion, try to find a small mistake in a sentence to start a new case and bla bla bla is so stressful and a waste of oxygen.
I find amazing as soon as something relating CU happens people will feel the urge to comment it here. I can't recall a single time CU spoke about DH, not even on our forum or publicly. But yeah, we really value your opinion and we are so happy you can tell us what you all think about stuff you've never experienced :-D


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> Regarding the "telling others what to do", I am just so fed up of this country sometimes I'd like to leave it. The way brits discuss, argue, comment on everything, give their opinion, try to find a small mistake in a sentence to start a new case and bla bla bla is so stressful and a waste of oxygen.D


You claimed that I had told 'people at Clapton' what to do. That is not correct, so it would be nice if you just admitted that mistake rather than going into a random rant. Thank you.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

editor said:


> You claimed that I had told 'people at Clapton' what to do. That is not correct, so it would be nice if you just admitted that mistake rather than going into a random rant. Thank you.


ok, that wasn't correct.
Happy?

PS you know perfectly what I meant, but you prove me right about discussions in here


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> If I understood what you mean, the main issue is that sometimes because of a few annoying people, many can't have a good time. I got to chat to many people who came to the games for the first time, who weren't singing, having a good time and enjoy the day. Nothing wrong with that.
> As said, there's many who are really unrespectful and think we're just a bunch of monkeys to entertain them. That's the people we tried to hit with the blog post.
> Everybody knows we're good with whoever is good with us.
> 
> ...


When did new times start. What's the new comer cut off point?


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> PS you know perfectly what I meant, but you prove me right about discussions in here


No, I really don't know what you meant. You accused me of doing something I simply hadn't done and I don't like that, thanks.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

editor said:


> No, I really don't know what you meant. You accused me of doing something I simply hadn't done and I don't like that, thanks.


i thought it was over, you're still going on about it.
do you want me to send a photo of me on my knees asking for forgiveness?


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> When did new times start. What's the new comer cut off point?


Sorry, I didn't understand what you mean


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> Sorry, I didn't understand what you mean


You made a cut off point between people like you and new comers. When did this point start?


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> i thought it was over, you're still going on about it.
> do you want me to send a photo of me on my knees asking for forgiveness?


How long have you been posting up lies on the internet?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> Everybody knows we're good with whoever is good with us.:


Not the Cowdenbeath celts for example





> We (CU) don't get a penny from turnstiles and I think that kills everything about the football.


Perhaps you should negotiate funding with the club


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Not the Cowdenbeath celts for example
> Perhaps you should negotiate funding with the club


You can read what I wrote about the Celtic people before and I am not going to write anything else about it.
Fundings are challenged and there's people who are on it since a while. (You can read more here Clapton Football Club - The real official website for the "Tons".   Not McBean's Cash Cow )
We do what we can do and all our work is self funded, often by selling merchandising.
As I mentioned it's a big subject and has a long history but not relevant to this discussion.



butchersapron said:


> You made a cut off point between people like you and new comers. When did this point start?


I've been going for three years now, there's some who have been there for longer. Some people come for the first time. Maybe there's a difference between all of us?



editor said:


> How long have you been posting up lies on the internet?


Probably I should ask you (as you did) to take this accusation back and bla bla, but I seriously don't care about your gratuitous false accusations.
It's a shame they come from what it seems to be an admin of this board (sorry if you're not)


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> I've been going for three years now, there's some who have been there for longer. Some people come for the first time. Maybe there's a difference between all of us?


Three years. You have no right to talk about new comers then and it suggests that the people you support in their attempts to talk as the old guard have no right either. In fact, you sound like new comers.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Three years. You have no right to talk about new comers then and it suggests that the people you support in their attempts to talk as the old guard have no right either. In fact, you sound like new comers.



Yeah.
How long have you been coming to Clapton?
How long have you been involved with Clapton Ultras?

Thanks for telling me what I should and shouldn't do. Really precious advices.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> Yeah.
> How long have you been coming to Clapton?
> How long have you been involved with Clapton Ultras?
> 
> Thanks for telling me what I should and shouldn't do. Really precious advices.


Three year is not enough to try and throw your weight around in this embarrassing manner. And embarrassing is what it is.

You can, and clearly already do, what you want. That's, in large part the problem here - a new comers collective - three years no less - deciding they run things. You've made a celeb-club with celeb fans and people wanting to go be seen there. Doesn't mean you get to police them in the ground or anywhere else.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Three year is not enough to try and throw your weight around in this embarrassing manner. And embarrassing is what it is.
> 
> You can, and clearly already do, what you want. That's, in large part the problem here - a new comers collective - three years no less - deciding they run things. You've made a celeb-club with celeb fans and people wanting to go be seen there. Doesn't mean you get to police them in the ground or anywhere else.


Just out of curiosity, have you read what I wrote in this topic so far?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> Just out of curiosity, have you read what I wrote in this topic so far?


If it's only curiosity then i decline to comment.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> If it's only curiosity then i decline to comment.


It's great to talk to you people.
You talk about stuff you've never seen and don't even bother to reply.
Next time I'll chat to my chair, surely more productive than this


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> Yeah.
> How long have you been coming to Clapton?
> How long have you been involved with Clapton Ultras?
> 
> Thanks for telling me what I should and shouldn't do. Really precious advices.



I think you should only let people come to clapton that share your exact political beliefs.

Definitely protect those women who cant look after themselves, especially those on video attacking steve hedley and celtic fans.

And also charge people to stand in the scaffold so that the leaders of the CU can receive precious funding.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> I think you should only let people come to clapton that share your exact political beliefs.
> 
> Definitely protect those women who cant look after themselves, especially those on video attacking steve hedley and celtic fans.
> 
> And also charge people to stand in the scaffold so that the leaders of the CU can receive precious funding.



Great idea. With that money i'll finally buy a house and i could stop working. It's the plan of many at Clapton.


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> Great idea. With that money i'll finally buy a house and i could stop working. It's the plan of many at Clapton.



I didn't think most Clapton fans needed to work anyway.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> It's great to talk to you people.


"_You people_," eh?

Just lump all those individual posters and their opinions altogether like UKIP lumps "those immigrants" together. That's the way forward! Stereotype and generalise!


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> I didn't think most Clapton fans needed to work anyway.


we do to pretend we're working class.
some actually cover their clothes in paint to look like builders. Others stay up all night so it seems they actually worked night shifts and I know a couple who fill self assessments and pay taxes even thought they spend all day at home watching netflix.



editor said:


> "_You people_," eh?
> Just lump all those individual posters and their opinions altogether like UKIP lumps "those immigrants" together. That's the way forward! Stereotype and generalise!


I do vote UKIP to kick out Italians out of the country.


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> we do to pretend we're working class.
> some actually cover their clothes in paint to look like builders. Others stay up all night so it seems they actually worked night shifts and I know a couple who fill self assessments and pay taxes even thought they spend all day at home watching netflix.
> 
> 
> I do vote UKIP to kick out Italians out of the country.



So you say. We certainly KNOW that you wont let anyone in the scaffold that you haven't thoroughly background checked and approved of their politics. 

We also know that NO ONE is political enough for the CU. Not Celtic and certainly not little Dulwich Hamlet.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> I do vote UKIP to kick out Italians out of the country.



I vote Clapton to kick them out of the Scaffold.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> So you say. We certainly KNOW that you wont let anyone in the scaffold that you haven't thoroughly background checked and approved of their politics.
> 
> We also know that NO ONE is political enough for the CU. Not Celtic and certainly not little Dulwich Hamlet.


I am glad you know so much.
Could you please tell me more about CU as I haven't been there long enough to consider me a non new comer?



Magnus McGinty said:


> I vote Clapton to kick them out of the Scaffold.


The Italians? Yeah, they're disgusting


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> The Italians? Yeah, they're disgusting



I was pointing out the irony between what you said and what you do.


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> I am glad you know so much.
> Could you please tell me more about CU as I haven't been there long enough to consider me a non new comer?
> 
> 
> The Italians? Yeah, they're disgusting



I don't consider you a non new-comer. I used to live in Clapton though in the eighties when I was a child  people of all political persuasions lived side by side.


----------



## magneze (Nov 28, 2016)

No bar queue eh? Where do I sign up or er... stand?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> The Italians? Yeah, they're disgusting


Which other nationalities do you consider disgusting?


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> I don't consider you a non new-comer. I used to live in Clapton though in the eighties when I was a child  people of all political persuasions lived side by side.


That's seriously cool (even though Clapton FC is based between Forest Gate and Plaistow since 1887) and I wish places would be more like that rather than washed out middle class areas where nobody cares about anything as long as they have a new "cool" thing to do for the day.



Pickman's model said:


> Which other nationalities do you consider disgusting?


No other ones. Only mine


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 28, 2016)

The middle class upset that the middle class have started turning up.


----------



## B.I.G (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> That's seriously cool (even though Clapton FC is based between Forest Gate and Plaistow since 1887) and I wish places would be more like that rather than washed out middle class areas where nobody cares about anything as long as they have a new "cool" thing to do for the day.
> 
> 
> No other ones. Only mine



Buster bloodvessel lived opposite across the hall.


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> Buster bloodvessel lived opposite across the hall.


I wanted to see Bad Manners live but tickets were way too expensive.
Another sign those times are over and I am too late for them. That's life I suppose...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> I wanted to see Bad Manners live but tickets were way too expensive.
> Another sign those times are over and I am too late for them. That's life I suppose...



Have you been into them longer than three years?


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Have you been into them longer than three years?


ahahaha good point 

As we are off topic though, check the difference in London prices and other venues:
Bad Manners


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> ahahaha good point
> 
> As we are off topic though, check the difference in London prices and other venues:
> Bad Manners



It will reflect the costs. Capitalism, ey?


----------



## k12m (Nov 28, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It will reflect the costs. Capitalism, ey?


yeah, i know. but i still get surprised by this massive amount of shit.
a friend went to a gig (don't know which band) in leeds and it was cheaper to get train ticket and gig ticket than the one in london.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> yeah, i know. but i still get surprised by this massive amount of shit.
> a friend went to a gig (don't know which band) in leeds and it was cheaper to get train ticket and gig ticket than the one in london.



Must have bought the train ticket waaaay in advance. Or they were going to see Madonna.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 28, 2016)

Have we drifted into a subtle prolier-than-thou thing here?


----------



## TopCat (Nov 28, 2016)

editor said:


> So it's an 'inclusive'  'community' football club, but one that has a private standing area that's only for the approved political elite? They may as well go the whole hog and get a velvet rope and some bouncers installed around their VIP Ultras area.


It was one of the Clapton Ultras accusations that Steve Hedley and other anti facists taped off a private area in the Scaffold for themselves. 
This accusation was so manifestly false as to seem the rantings of a deluded bunch, living the dream in a house of cards pastiche of a football firm. 

Now it all becomes clearer. The CU lot are worried and paranoid about having their bubble pricked. A safe space for their growing delusion is what they are insisting on.


----------



## marty21 (Nov 28, 2016)

chilango said:


> Is this close enough?
> 
> The Crooked Billet, London - Restaurant Reviews & Photos - TripAdvisor


I was there 4 hours ago ,it's my local.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2016)

marty21 said:


> I was there 4 hours ago ,it's my local.


How come you left so early?


----------



## TopCat (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> If I understood what you mean, the main issue is that sometimes because of a few annoying people, many can't have a good time. I got to chat to many people who came to the games for the first time, who weren't singing, having a good time and enjoy the day. Nothing wrong with that.
> As said, there's many who are really unrespectful and think we're just a bunch of monkeys to entertain them. That's the people we tried to hit with the blog post.
> Everybody knows we're good with whoever is good with us.
> 
> ...



Well as a life long anti fascist i can happily report that when i went to Hamlet, pissed, waving a large black and red flag that I was warmly welcomed. 

Unlike dicks like you throwing cans and bottles at Steve Hedley etc.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 28, 2016)

k12m said:


> If I understood what you mean, the main issue is that sometimes because of a few annoying people, many can't have a good time. I got to chat to many people who came to the games for the first time, who weren't singing, having a good time and enjoy the day. Nothing wrong with that.
> As said, there's many who are really unrespectful and think we're just a bunch of monkeys to entertain them. That's the people we tried to hit with the blog post.
> Everybody knows we're good with whoever is good with us.


 That wasn't what I was getting at really. I meant why have yourselves as this defined group, with your own space where, however you describe it, you say what goes?  Why set yourselves up as a group with, ahem, privileges?  However much you reach for the label of 'ultras' to make it part of something bigger, on the ground, as a day to day way of being a fan, it's not really a good look


----------



## cantsin (Nov 28, 2016)

Wilf said:


> That wasn't what I was getting at really. I meant why have yourselves as this defined group, with your own space where, however you describe it, you say what goes?  Why set yourselves up as a group with, ahem, privileges?  However much you reach for the label of 'ultras' to make it part of something bigger, on the ground, as a day to day way of being a fan, it's not really a good look



CU might only be 'ultras' on a micro scale, but setting up as a "defined group, with your own space where, however you describe it, you say what goes " is what ultras do at football grounds, surely ?


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2016)

Personally I find it a bit embarrassing when any British club describes themselves as 'ultras' especially given the ambiguity of the word.



> *Ultras* are a type of football fan renowned for ultra-fanatical support, occasionally to the point of violence and hateful chants and slogans. They are predominantly followers of association football teams.
> 
> The behavioural tendency of ultras groups includes the use of flares (primarily in tifo choreography), vocal support in large groups and the displaying of banners at football stadiums, all of which are designed to create an atmosphere which encourages their own team and intimidates opposing players and supporters. The use of elaborate displays in stadiums often is common, as well.
> 
> ...


----------



## cantsin (Nov 29, 2016)

Not sure what you mean re : the " ambiguity of the word " ? 

But have always assumed there was a fair degree of irony in CUs use of ' ultras'


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2016)

cantsin said:


> Not sure what you mean re : the " ambiguity of the word " ?
> 
> But have always assumed there was a fair degree of irony in CUs use of ' ultras'


I've never realised they were being ironic. I don't think that comes across if that is the case.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

k12m said: ↑
I've been going for three years now, there's some who have been there for longer. Some people come for the first time. Maybe there's a difference between all of us?
You can't even get that right. You & I know you have only been going for just over two years! If you are going to big yourself up at least be honest in one thing you say.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 29, 2016)

editor said:


> I've never realised they were being ironic. I don't think that comes across if that is the case.



A quote from the comments on that blog post: 



> The first instance of the "Clapton Ultras" was started, with tongues decidedly in cheeks, when a group of LADS were dragged down to the Dog for someone's birthday. Reading this I'm not sure we'd be allowed in now.



Make of that what you will.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2016)

This middle class led foray into football hoolie culture will only end in tears. Tears of laughter at the moment but eventually CU will get a bit more attention than they can handle.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 29, 2016)

TopCat said:


> This middle class led foray into football hoolie culture will only end in tears. Tears of laughter at the moment but eventually CU will get a bit more attention than they can handle.



I havent see any evidence of attempted forays into 'hoolie culture' by CU, unless you're confusing hoolie / ultra culture ?

( and the last time your little  'it will end in tears' fantasy looked like it could become a reality, ie : rightwingers bought 'hoolie culture' to them,  they seemed to handle themselves ok :

 )


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2016)

cantsin said:


> I havent see any evidence of attempted forays into 'hoolie culture' by CU, unless you're confusing hoolie / ultra culture ?
> 
> ( and the last time your little  'it will end in tears' fantasy looked like it could become a reality, ie : rightwingers bought 'hoolie culture' to them,  they seemed to handle themselves ok :
> 
> )



Ho ho ho.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 29, 2016)

cantsin said:


> CU might only be 'ultras' on a micro scale, but setting up as a "defined group, with your own space where, however you describe it, you say what goes " is what ultras do at football grounds, surely ?


Yeah, you're right. I happen to think the whole ultra thing is shit anyway, but Clapham seem to embody a half hearted version, a slightly embarrassing use of a label that they don't really measure up to.  But then, I'm happy to applaud positive things they are doing (really).  It just seems like a shitty off the peg identity and when it comes to things like 'you're not allowed into our safe space'...


----------



## cantsin (Nov 29, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Ho ho ho.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2016)

Wilf said:


> Yeah, you're right. I happen to think the whole ultra thing is shit anyway, but Clapham seem to embody a half hearted version, a slightly embarrassing use of a label that they don't really measure up to.  But then, I'm happy to applaud positive things they are doing (really).  It just seems like a shitty off the peg identity and when it comes to things like 'you're not allowed into our safe space'...





But then...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 29, 2016)

editor said:


> View attachment 96352
> 
> But then...




Yebbut that's, like, not _official_ CU on YT, right?

Clapton Ultras

Oh


----------



## Shechemite (Nov 29, 2016)

editor said:


> View attachment 96352




fucking hell that's naff


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Yebbut that's, like, not _official_ CU on YT, right?
> 
> Clapton Ultras
> 
> Oh


They must have left the face-blur-o-meter at home for this one.



There's a lot I like about CU and our politics are pretty much aligned. but some of their rules ain't alf daft.


----------



## k12m (Nov 29, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Well as a life long anti fascist i can happily report that when i went to Hamlet, pissed, waving a large black and red flag that I was warmly welcomed.
> Unlike dicks like you throwing cans and bottles at Steve Hedley etc.


wah wah wah
obsessed poor little macho who got his master kicked out from a 9th league ground still crying.
you're cute babes.



editor said:


> Personally I find it a bit embarrassing when any British club describes themselves as 'ultras' especially given the ambiguity of the word.


What club?



The Flying Pig said:


> k12m said: ↑
> I've been going for three years now, there's some who have been there for longer. Some people come for the first time. Maybe there's a difference between all of us?
> You can't even get that right. You & I know you have only been going for just over two years! If you are going to big yourself up at least be honest in one thing you say.


Not trying to big myself up, just "lost in translation" from the italian. It wouldn't change much of what i meant in the original message.
It's my THIRD season going, so technically 2years and some months.
Take it easy baby, whoever you are, even though you seem to know me.



TopCat said:


> Ho ho ho.


I am glad you find it funny.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2016)

Wilf said:


> Yeah, you're right. I happen to think the whole ultra thing is shit anyway, but Clapham seem to embody a half hearted version, a slightly embarrassing use of a label that they don't really measure up to.  But then, I'm happy to applaud positive things they are doing (really).  It just seems like a shitty off the peg identity and when it comes to things like 'you're not allowed into our safe space'...



Clapham!?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2016)

Freudian slip...


----------



## Wilf (Nov 29, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Freudian slip...


 I've managed to do that at least once on every thread this stuff has come up on urban.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

So now k12m finally confirms that he has only been going to clapton for 2 years. But of course it was lost in translation. I am now wondering how many other quotes of his are lost in translation. How convenient. "Oh i am not telling untruths, just lost in translation".


----------



## ffsear (Nov 29, 2016)

editor said:


>




As we say in football....  "what the fucking hell was that?"


----------



## cantsin (Nov 29, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> So now k12m finally confirms that he has only been going to clapton for 2 years. But of course it was lost in translation. I am now wondering how many other quotes of his are lost in translation. How convenient. "Oh i am not telling untruths, just lost in translation".



best stay with it / get forensic on it, important sh*t this, exposing some crucial innacuracies here


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2016)

cantsin said:


> best stay with it / get forensic on it, important sh*t this, exposing some crucial innacuracies here


Inaccuracies


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2016)




----------



## B.I.G (Nov 29, 2016)

editor said:


> They must have left the face-blur-o-meter at home for this one.
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lot I like about CU and our politics are pretty much aligned. but some of their rules ain't alf daft.




That dance aint half kingstonian-esque


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> That dance aint half kingstonian-esque


Ouch!


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

cantsin said:


> best stay with it / get forensic on it, important sh*t this, exposing some crucial innacuracies here


k12m needs to be told that his home counties claptonite friends gave up long ago on this site because every jackanory they tell gets burnt down in flames.


----------



## planetgeli (Nov 29, 2016)

So little time, so much sectarian shit to keep up with. Watch out where you put those commas and really fucking sad to see Editor being a major part of it all.

Carmarthen Town ftw. And bollocks to this thread.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> That dance aint half kingstonian-esque



It's traditional Italian I think.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> So little time, so much sectarian shit to keep up with. Watch out where you put those commas and really fucking sad to see Editor being a major part of it all.
> 
> Carmarthen Town ftw. And bollocks to this thread.


And there in lies the problem of clapton. From an outsiders viewpoint who has no experie


Magnus McGinty said:


> It's traditional Italian I think.


If only it was simply "sectarian shit" it would be really easy to cope with.


----------



## alfajobrob (Nov 29, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It's traditional Italian I think.



Its fucking embarrassing is what it is...kept expecting them to break out into the hokey cokey.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> So little time, so much sectarian shit to keep up with. Watch out where you put those commas and really fucking sad to see Editor being a major part of it all..


I hope you're not associating me with any of that 'sectarian shit' you're going on about.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It's traditional Italian I think.


Not spicy Italian tho


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2016)

See off twitter the knobhead chairman is blaming the Ultras for Clapton not getting promoted: VINCE MCBEAN BLAMES FANS FOR LACK OF PROMOTION BID Stickers in bogs, what is the world coming to?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

JimW said:


> See off twitter the knobhead chairman is blaming the Ultras for Clapton not getting promoted: VINCE MCBEAN BLAMES FANS FOR LACK OF PROMOTION BID Stickers in bogs, what is the world coming to?


He is not the chairman but chief executive. Why the insults towards Vince? Can we not just read the article for ourselves and draw our own conclusions?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> He is not the chairman but chief executive. Why the insults towards Vince? Can we not just read the article for ourselves and draw our own conclusions?


yes. yes, you can.


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> He is not the chairman but chief executive. Why the insults towards Vince? Can we not just read the article for ourselves and draw our own conclusions?


I thought it was a knobby sort of excuse to give. But feel free to draw your own conclusions.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> He is not the chairman but chief executive. Why the insults towards Vince? Can we not just read the article for ourselves and draw our own conclusions?



Because he's boss class.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

Yes, reading the article on the ultras page it does appear a strange reason for not gaining promotion. But as per usual with the ultras they only cherry pick what they want others to hear. Read the newspaper article and it is a totally different stance.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Because he's boss class.


Yes Vince is definitely boss class


----------



## planetgeli (Nov 29, 2016)

editor said:


> I hope you're not associating me with any of that 'sectarian shit' you're going on about.



Yes I am. Look who liked your post while we are at it. Your website, which is to be commended in first class terms for many reasons from how it started, has become a tired clique, and unreadable to some because of the tired, bitter cynicism evident in some of the replies from prominent members across the board. 

Wank, wank you put the comma in the wrong place.

Wank, wank you haven't read this esoteric ideological tract.

Wank, wank oh look, there's another member lost.

Still, we're better than Clapton Ultras. 

Fucking yawn. Your members couldn't even employ anarchy in the Isle of Wight.

Bring on replies from the clique who hate me (and anyone who isn't 'them') plus the inevitable 'likes' of every post, shared out between them.

I came here to learn. 90% of what I see is clique driven. I yawn some more.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> Yes I am. Look who liked your post while we are at it. Your website, which is to be commended in first class terms for many reasons from how it started, has become a tired clique, and unreadable to some because of the tired, bitter cynicism evident in some of the replies from prominent members across the board.
> 
> Wank, wank you put the comma in the wrong place.
> 
> ...


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2016)

MadeInBedlam said:


> fucking hell that's naff



I disagree to be fair. When that vid came out I thought it was interesting and potentially signalled something positive and uplifting about football. 

I had on occasion, like many Millwall, gone to Dulwich Hamlet (DH) on occasions When Millwall were away and we were skint or under restrictions or banning orders. This was all before their current Supermarket ground got built. We were always made welcome and why not? We saw football, we got spent money and got pissed etc, we had a laugh, we were all South London. We were not "shirters" but always enjoyed ourselves, sometimes singing Millwall throughout the game. We were always looked after. I lived East Dulwich/North Peckam back then and knew about the affinity of some Local South London Clubs. 

Decades later DH held a Stonewall Match, in the supermarket stadium against homophobia in football (2013?) and invited all supporters of the team and those who realised homophobia was shit given not one Premier league footballer was out. 

I went with only a big love to accompany me and an big anarchist flag because I thought it was great that bigotry in football was confronted. This was and is the time that we have no out Premiership Footballers. This match I feel led and gave confidence to to the men confronting currently their football paedophile rapist abusers.....

I knew none of the players, nor the chants and was known to be Millwall but I was again welcomed. 

At least at this match I was pleased but surprised to see people I would describe as anarchist / communist comrades supporting Clapton. I was unaware of any interest from them in football thus far but we had forged links over decades doing action so there was a lot there and still is there despite all this shit. 

I'm known amongst a lot Millwall boy's  for being openly multi sexual. Never had a single piss take over thirty years plus. Even when I did "save all your kisses for me" done at The Final Furlong on Grange Road in from of many Bushwackers on the Karaoke. 

Despite all this, Clapton Ultras could do all that they want without a raised eyebrow (apart from Pitt and his mugs) but they seem to want to slag every cunt off in football. From supporters to natural allies, to friends and comrades, they want to bring it on themselves. 

It makes me sad what has happened to CU in the last couple of years. 

I hope the comrades I see in the vids giving it large know what their doing. I have known some of you for thirty years plus.

It's  never to late to think about it and have a word with certain mugs.


----------



## 19force8 (Nov 29, 2016)

editor said:


> View attachment 96352


Mon dieu, that's precious.

So the "Ultras" don't change ends at half time? How bloody anti-social!


----------



## YouSir (Nov 29, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> Yes I am. Look who liked your post while we are at it. Your website, which is to be commended in first class terms for many reasons from how it started, has become a tired clique, and unreadable to some because of the tired, bitter cynicism evident in some of the replies from prominent members across the board.
> 
> Wank, wank you put the comma in the wrong place.
> 
> ...



Urban has plenty of problems with a minority of asshole posters but your bullshit there is just pointless, upset whinging. And I say that as a sporadic poster who isn't part of any 'clique'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> Bring on replies from the clique who hate me (and anyone who isn't 'them') plus the inevitable 'likes' of every post, shared out between them.


you read too much into likes

not to mention you aren't hated as much as you think


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> Yes I am. Look who liked your post while we are at it. Your website, which is to be commended in first class terms for many reasons from how it started, has become a tired clique, and unreadable to some because of the tired, bitter cynicism evident in some of the replies from prominent members across the board.
> 
> Wank, wank you put the comma in the wrong place.
> 
> ...


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

friggin buttons!


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> friggin buttons!


I thought you'd gone off on one


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> Bring on replies from the clique who hate me (and anyone who isn't 'them')



No idea who you are TBH!


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> No idea who you are TBH!


The unkindest cuss of all


----------



## cantsin (Nov 29, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> He is not the chairman but chief executive. Why the insults towards Vince? Can we not just read the article for ourselves and draw our own conclusions?



huh, you're now questioning people having a pop at divvy chairman / chief execs now, why the concern ? Anything you want to tell us ?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

cantsin said:


> huh, you're now questioning people having a pop at divvy chairman / chief execs now, why the concern ? Anything you want to tell us ?


Quite simply as far as I can see all is not what it appears and the random quote just confirms that the person making the "knobhead" quote has no idea of what is/has been going down at Clapton FC


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Quite simply as far as I can see all is not what it appears and the random quote just confirms that the person making the "knobhead" quote has no idea of what is/has been going down at Clapton FC


Don't know much about Clapton, it's true, but do you think it likely that stickers in away bogs have prevented them getting promoted or are you saying the chief exec never made the claim?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 29, 2016)

However, Clapton’s chief executive hit back claiming that the Ultras have brought the price rises upon themselves with reckless behaviour that has led the club to be fined by the authorities.

McBean said: “The (security) people haven’t always been here. But because we are having flares and flags on the pitch we have had to put them back. We are meant to have them here every match and stewards as well.

“If you have so many people here, how are you meant to control them if anything happens. You need stewards here. If you have people bringing in drinks and all the rest of it, that is contravening the rules. They are bringing in pyrotechnics, letting them off, that is contravening the rules as well.”

He continued: “The club is ending up getting fined. They let off flares and stuff the last time and the only time this hasn’t happened is when we have had SIA badge people on the gates and they were searched and they were told you can’t bring it in. So that’s where we are.”

Clubs can be fined up to £250 for failing to control supporters with the Essex League Committee allowed to double the fine each time the offence is committed.

With these extra costs, McBean has felt that he had no other option but to raise the ticket prices. The chief executive, who has been involved with the Tons for well over a decade, also bemoaned the Ultras habit of putting up Clapton stickers in away teams toilets, saying the committee, who are made up of different club chairmen, took a dim view which was sometimes reflected in the fines.

Any attempts for Clapton to gain promotion rests upon the committee sanctioning the move up in league, and with the constant breaking of regulations by fans, McBean worries that the chances of Tons progression are being inhibited.

Yet much of the recent progression is down to the fans and their large and loyal support. Before the arrival of the Ultras, Clapton were a team floundering at the bottom of the ESL, but have now risen up in the past few seasons and are currently lying in fourth place this year.


As you can see if you care to read the above info, it mainly revolves around the letting off of flares, bringing alcohol into the games, waving enormous flags pitchside and there are other issues that are currently in process.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> Yes I am. Look who liked your post while we are at it. Your website, which is to be commended in first class terms for many reasons from how it started, has become a tired clique, and unreadable to some because of the tired, bitter cynicism evident in some of the replies from prominent members across the board.
> 
> Wank, wank you put the comma in the wrong place.
> 
> ...


They're not "my" members and if you don't like what's been posted, lead by example. What interesting threads have you started recently?

I still see plenty of interesting stuff every day here. I'm sorry you don't. 

Oh, and this they-all-hate-me 'clique' stuff is both a bit paranoid and extremely dull.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2016)

JimW said:


> See off twitter the knobhead chairman is blaming the Ultras for Clapton not getting promoted: VINCE MCBEAN BLAMES FANS FOR LACK OF PROMOTION BID Stickers in bogs, what is the world coming to?


Is that the official unofficial website or the official official one, if you get my drift?


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> However, Clapton’s chief executive hit back claiming that the Ultras have brought the price rises upon themselves with reckless behaviour that has led the club to be fined by the authorities.
> 
> McBean said: “The (security) people haven’t always been here. But because we are having flares and flags on the pitch we have had to put them back. We are meant to have them here every match and stewards as well.
> 
> ...


Nice, yr actually approvingly c + p ing whingeing Mcbeans bullshit word for word, as he completely ignores the fact the clapton fans have transformed the club in terms of attendances , atmosphere, finances, profile .... " if you care to ..." ...purlease...any other club chairman yr a fanboi of / who's thoughts you'd like to share ?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 30, 2016)

cantsin said:


> Nice, yr actually approvingly c + p ing whingeing Mcbeans bullshit word for word, as he completely ignores the fact the clapton fans have transformed the club in terms of attendances , atmosphere, finances, profile .... " if you care to ..." ...purlease...any other club chairman yr a fanboi of / who's thoughts you'd like to share ?


What is your point?


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> What is your point?



is Vince your dad ?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 30, 2016)

No but we do exchange christmas presents


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> No but we do exchange christmas presents



he certainly sounds like a giving, charitable kinda guy : The Dodgy Deal by which Vincent McBean Took Control of Clapton FC

Using a dodgy public limited company and a few associates who were later to be disqualified as Trustees by the Charity Commission, Mr McBean has bluffed his way into taking control of Knights Millennium Foyer.  He then managed to resign, just before the Charity Commission intervention and escape disqualification as a Trustee.  This, despite the accounts of the Charity clearing stating that nearly half a million pounds, much of it in cash, was said to have been paid to Mr McBean's Limited Company, Knights Corporation Limited for apparent services which the Commission found had not been supplied to the charity at all  (Knights Corporation Limited was struck off without ever filing accounts)


----------



## editor (Nov 30, 2016)

cantsin said:


> Nice, yr actually approvingly c + p ing whingeing Mcbeans bullshit word for word, as he completely ignores the fact the clapton fans have transformed the club in terms of attendances , atmosphere, finances, profile .... " if you care to ..." ...purlease...any other club chairman yr a fanboi of / who's thoughts you'd like to share ?


The fundamental problem that CU are going to continually encounter is that the boring twats in charge of the game have banned flares - even in near empty grounds where's there's not the slightest chance of anyone being imperilled by one - and CUs like to set them off. If they keep on setting them off, then the club will get punished/fined and thus risk remaining at the same level (or sink lower) or even go bust.

Me, I fucking love flares, by the way.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 30, 2016)

cantsin said:


> he certainly sounds like a giving, charitable kinda guy : The Dodgy Deal by which Vincent McBean Took Control of Clapton FC
> 
> Using a dodgy public limited company and a few associates who were later to be disqualified as Trustees by the Charity Commission, Mr McBean has bluffed his way into taking control of Knights Millennium Foyer.  He then managed to resign, just before the Charity Commission intervention and escape disqualification as a Trustee.  This, despite the accounts of the Charity clearing stating that nearly half a million pounds, much of it in cash, was said to have been paid to Mr McBean's Limited Company, Knights Corporation Limited for apparent services which the Commission found had not been supplied to the charity at all  (Knights Corporation Limited was struck off without ever filing accounts)


I can only surmise that you do not have a comprehensive understanding of how some of our non league football clubs are run.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> I can only surmise that you do not have a comprehensive understanding of how some of our non league football clubs are run.



Pickman's, yr likes are getting out of control fam


----------



## editor (Nov 30, 2016)

cantsin said:


> Pickman's, yr likes are getting out of control fam


I'm not sure if it's possible to have 'out of control' likes.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> I can only surmise that you do not have a comprehensive understanding of how some of our non league football clubs are run.



surmise away, fill yr boots


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2016)

cantsin said:


> Pickman's, yr likes are getting out of control fam


nice to see your use of yr, good retro touch being as i was doing that, what, seven, eight years ago.


----------



## Raheem (Nov 30, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm not sure if it's possible to have 'out of control' likes.



Alcoholism would be one example of that.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 30, 2016)

for those interested in further reading


cantsin said:


> surmise away, fill yr boots


Ah! I see! for further reading and education look up Scarborough FC or Darlington, they are just two clubs out of many that have been run in the best interests of the chairman/chief exec,dictator and whoever you want to call them. Calling out McBean really is quite naive and therein lies the truth of clapton ultras. They know nothing about non league football but confess to being the real deal. If they were a pack of cards they would not even make a Joker.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> nice to see your use of yr, good retro touch being as i was doing that, what, seven, eight years ago.



just recovering from the ignominy of you pointing out an earlier misspelling, now i get caught brazenly stealing abbreviations of yrs from "seven, eight years ago..." ....add that to Flying Pig's weaselly little surmising etc.... tough thread this one, v tough thread


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2016)

cantsin said:


> just getting recovering from the ignominy of you pointing out an earlier misspelling, now i get caught brazenly stealing abbreviations of yrs from "seven, eight years ago..." ....add that to Flying Pig's weaselly little surmising etc.... tough thread this one, v tough thread


at least you didn't nick another abbreviation, vy


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 30, 2016)

Anton Johnson there is a scoundrel from the past, makes our McBean look like a saint


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2016)

"Ah! I see! for further reading and education look up Scarborough FC or Darlington, they are just two clubs out of many that have been run in the best interests of the chairman/chief exec,dictator and whoever you want to call them. Calling out McBean really is quite naive and therein lies the truth of clapton ultras. They know nothing about non league football but confess to being the real deal. If they were a pack of cards they would not even make a Joker"


----------



## editor (Nov 30, 2016)

Raheem said:


> Alcoholism would be one example of that.


I've never seen a like with a drink problem.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2016)

editor said:


> I've never seen a like with a drink problem.


yeh i've never seen the like


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 30, 2016)

cantsin said:


> just recovering from the ignominy of you pointing out an earlier misspelling[...]



Aw come on. He was correcting the word 'inaccuracies'. I'm sure even you could have forced a chuckle over that.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Aw come on. He was correcting the word 'inaccuracies'. I'm sure even you could have forced a chuckle over that.



yeah,  but when added to the vicious / historic plagiarism slur, it all starts to add up ...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 30, 2016)

cantsin said:


> yeah,  but when added to the vicious / historic plagiarism slur, it all starts to add up ...



History I'm unaware of.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2016)

cantsin said:


> yeah,  but when added to the vicious / historic plagiarism slur, it all starts to add up ...


i don't think i was vicious.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 30, 2016)

What was the 'plagiarism  slur'?


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What was the 'plagiarism  slur'?



he basically said i nicked the abbreviation 'yr' off him from about 8 yrs ago and was now gallavanting around the forum spraying it about as if' I'd invented it.

( f*cking slow day this ...)


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 30, 2016)

Oh right. Just shrug.


----------



## planetgeli (Nov 30, 2016)

editor said:


> They're not "my" members and if you don't like what's been posted, lead by example. What interesting threads have you started recently?
> 
> I still see plenty of interesting stuff every day here. I'm sorry you don't.
> 
> Oh, and this they-all-hate-me 'clique' stuff is both a bit paranoid and extremely dull.



Good grief, you sure know how to take a compliment don't you? ("Your website...commended...first class...blah blah").

Sorry. But I thought 'your' website = 'your' members. This looks like the equivalent of putting the comma in the wrong place again, so sorry.

I see some interesting stuff here else, god help me, I wouldn't keep coming back. I've started a small handful of threads but they are mainly in the Welsh section. Or things to do with bird-watching (I think) neither of which are going to attract massive audiences. I work in an environment where I cannot use Urban so more often than not cannot be the first to start political threads. Sorry if you find that dull but I find being followed around by a certain member having ANY post that is against me automatically liked by that person extremely dull too.

You, sorry, the website, loses members because of such behaviour. I thought you might accept a small bit of criticism a bit more easily than you have.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> Sorry if you find that dull but I find being followed around by a certain member having ANY post that is against me automatically liked by that person extremely dull too.


----------



## editor (Nov 30, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> You, sorry, the website, loses members because of such behaviour. I thought you might accept a small bit of criticism a bit more easily than you have.


Not really sure what I'm supposed to do about this 'criticism.' What do you suggest I do? Stop people liking too many posts?

Me, I've got more than enough fucking dickheads who follow me around and automatically like any post that is having a go at me. I find the ignore function works a treat for that. 

Oh, and I do object the notion that it's 'my' boards. Without the other mods they would have stopped existing a long time ago and the days of me having total power of what goes on here are long gone. If the mods don't agree with some of my fucking amazing ideas, they don't happen. The fools.


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 30, 2016)

Wow it's serious stuff this Ultra thing 

I was going to go next time I was down the holy smoke but I've been a bit put off. I might go that Dulwich gaff instead. In an attempt to go to as many grounds as I can before I'm deed I'm heading to Bellsdale Park on Saturday to watch Beith Jnrs host Greenock Morton. I shall be chatting to the locals  during the game


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 30, 2016)

editor said:


> Not really sure what I'm supposed to do about this 'criticism.' What do you suggest I do? Stop people liking too many posts?
> 
> Me, I've got more than enough fucking dickheads who follow me around and automatically like any post that is having a go at me. I find the ignore function works a treat for that.
> 
> Oh, and I do object the notion that it's 'my' boards. Without the other mods they would have stopped existing a long time ago and the days of me having total power of what goes on here are long gone. *If the mods don't agree with some of my fucking amazing ideas, they don't happen. The fools.*


Can we have an exclusively Northern forum now then please so we can shake off the smell of them Brummies?

Gwan just push the button


----------



## alfajobrob (Nov 30, 2016)

Surely the Cornish deserve a forum - who is there to speak for the Cornish. I sort of identify myself as Cornish as I went to Bodmin on holiday as a kid a few times.

I would speak up the the Cornish but I can't speak the lingo - we need Tobyjug back.


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 30, 2016)

alfajobrob said:


> Surely the Cornish deserve a forum - who is there to speak for the Cornish. I sort of identify myself as Cornish as I went to Bodmin on holiday as a kid a few times.
> 
> I would speak up the the Cornish but I can't speak the lingo - we need Tobyjug back.
> 
> View attachment 96399


Rick Stein owns Cornwall now. Fuck'em it's too late.

We want a wall and our own forum. Just north of brum for the wall please. It's important to have borderlands.


----------



## alfajobrob (Nov 30, 2016)

friedaweed said:


> Rick Stein owns Cornwall now. Fuck'em it's too late.
> 
> We want a wall and our own forum. Just north of brum for the wall please. It's important to have borderlands.



I always imagined that type of area North of the River as dangerous, so I can understand your position.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 30, 2016)

Bristol and Exeter are part of Greater Cornwall already. Get over it.


----------



## Sweet FA (Nov 30, 2016)

alfajobrob said:


> Surely the Cornish deserve a forum - who is there to speak for the Cornish. I sort of identify myself as Cornish as I went to Bodmin on holiday as a kid a few times.
> 
> I would speak up the the Cornish but I can't speak the lingo - we need Tobyjug back.
> 
> View attachment 96399


Waited quite a few seconds for those 4 youtube vids to start.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Bristol and Exeter are part of Greater Cornwall already. Get over it.


No such place. BRASSA KERNOW


----------



## alan_ (Dec 1, 2016)

friedaweed said:


> Wow it's serious stuff this Ultra thing
> 
> I was going to go next time I was down the holy smoke but I've been a bit put off. I might go that Dulwich gaff instead. In an attempt to go to as many grounds as I can before I'm deed I'm heading to Bellsdale Park on Saturday to watch Beith Jnrs host Greenock Morton. I shall be chatting to the locals  during the game


Are you going by train?


----------



## alan_ (Dec 1, 2016)

I know that it is not the actual ground that you speak of and is out side Cappielow, but, I did think it amusing that the away fans were using the soubriquet "Junkie" in conjunction with the Westminster Quarters "third quarter". In the West of Scotland and on the lower Clyde we wear our learning lightly and with humour.

ETA Gil Scott Herons dad scored his first goal against Morton


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

The Flying Pig you're absolutely amazing
As you seem to know how to run a non league club I'll give you some numbers of incomes of your mate McBean running Clapton FC.

Phone mast: 30k a year
Renting the ground to London Bari: 12k a year
Income from turnstiles for last year: between 35 and 40k depending on how many concession tickets were sold.

How many youth teams are there? None
How many women teams? None
How much do players get for expenses: 0

So the issue is fines for smoke pyros and flags on the pitch (this is the biggest bullshit ever: I always wave one and I always always always make sure it doesn't get on the way)

Just say it: "I hate CU and whatever it happens I am against them". I'll be alright with that, but have some decency of not writing absolute bollocks mate.


----------



## friedaweed (Dec 1, 2016)

alan_ said:


> I know that it is not the actual ground that you speak of and is out side Cappielow, but, I did think it amusing that the away fans were using the soubriquet "Junkie" in conjunction with the Westminster Quarters "third quarter". In the West of Scotland and on the lower Clyde we wear our learning lightly and with humour.
> 
> ETA Gil Scott Herons dad scored his first goal against Morton


I'm going with my pal from Largs, most probably via a lift from his pal. He's the Morton fan. I've been to watch them at home a couple of times. I must get my humour from he lower Clyde. That's were me mammys frem.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> The Flying Pig you're absolutely amazing
> As you seem to know how to run a non league club I'll give you some numbers of incomes of your mate McBean running Clapton FC.
> 
> Phone mast: 30k a year
> ...


Firstly I am not your "mate".
Secondly your post clearly shows why you have no understanding of non league football in England.
Thirdly by going on a rant does not make you right, an English saying that you may want to learn " The empty barrels make the most noise".


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> The Flying Pig you're absolutely amazing
> As you seem to know how to run a non league club I'll give you some numbers of incomes of your mate McBean running Clapton FC.
> 
> Phone mast: 30k a year
> ...


so what you're saying is mcbean's coining it in as he has loads of income and no expenditure.

i think the club might have one or two outgoings, don't you?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 1, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Firstly I am not your "mate".
> Secondly your post clearly shows why you have no understanding of non league football in England.
> Thirdly by going on a rant does not make you right, an English saying that you may want to learn " The empty barrels make the most noise".



 you love your haughty ' you have no understanding of non league football' line, isn't it about time you enlightened us ?


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Firstly I am not your "mate".
> Secondly your post clearly shows why you have no understanding of non league football in England.
> Thirdly by going on a rant does not make you right, an English saying that you may want to learn " The empty barrels make the most noise".



So explain then, as you got all the knowledge.
Enlight me and enrich me, Sir.
What's the rant then? I gave you numbers and your reply is "you have no idea how it works". Really poor, sir. I am not sure you can do better than that though...



Pickman's model said:


> so what you're saying is mcbean's coining it in as he has loads of income and no expenditure.
> 
> i think the club might have one or two outgoings, don't you?


sure it does, but i mentioned what could be the biggest expenses.
How come other clubs in the league survive and have many youth teams (Barking as around 22 if I am not wrong) and women's teams (London Bari), an attendance of less than a tenth of Clapton and still manage to survive?
That was my point.
For what I know people involved in helping at the club are volunteers, so there's not even money to be spent on them.


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> So explain then, as you got all the knowledge.
> Enlight me and enrich me, Sir.
> What's the rant then? I gave you numbers and your reply is "you have no idea how it works". Really poor, sir. I am not sure you can do better than that though...
> 
> ...


What is the average attendance of Clapton this season? Is it up or down from last season?


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> What is the average attendance of Clapton this season? Is it up or down from last season?


Up I think, but the fixtures have been really stupid for several teams in the league as Clapton and if I am not wrong Stansted and another couple teams, a lot of away games in a row.
Home attendance is always higher of course, but if you check attendance of the past games it's not comparable to home games.
We also have the feeling the attendance communicated by the club is often lower than what it is in reality...


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> Up I think, but the fixtures have been really stupid for several teams in the league as Clapton and if I am not wrong Stansted and another couple teams, a lot of away games in a row.
> Home attendance is always higher of course, but if you check attendance of the past games it's not comparable to home games.
> We also have the feeling the attendance communicated by the club is often lower than what it is in reality...


speaking of really stupid, if you have a lot of away games in a row you will clearly have a period when most, if not all, of your games are at home.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> sure it does, but i mentioned what could be the biggest expenses.


no, you didn't. you've mentioned security on this thread. they presumably desire to be paid. and the groundsman/woman. being as they are i expect paid, those expenses are larger than the ones you mentioned for which you claim an outlay of £0.


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> speaking of really stupid, if you have a lot of away games in a row you will clearly have a period when most, if not all, of your games are at home.


I know how it works, thanks. Just mentioning that for long time many people can have problems attending games as not everybody can afford an away trip by coach/train etc...
We do our best to support the expenses of others, but our finances are really limited at the moment (we and us = Clapton Ultras)




Pickman's model said:


> no, you didn't. you've mentioned security on this thread. they presumably desire to be paid. and the groundsman/woman. being as they are i expect paid, those expenses are larger than the ones you mentioned for which you claim an outlay of £0.


Security is a good point: he decided to introduce that last time we played home and started charging all fans and extra £1.
As you could read in the article (or here: Clapton’s chief executive Vince McBean explains recent decisions ) manager and chairmain claim the extra money is for different reasons. Ho much could be left for players if you pay a security person?
I am not sure the groundsman is paid to be honest.
All those people involved are volunteers (Vince said that once during a speech he gave at the beginning of the season).
I mentioned the youth teams because they are quite expensive.
But please don't focus only on that, and keep in mind the numbers I mentioned in the "incomes" list because that's crucial and completely different than any other club in our league.


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> Up I think, but the fixtures have been really stupid for several teams in the league as Clapton and if I am not wrong Stansted and another couple teams, a lot of away games in a row.
> Home attendance is always higher of course, but if you check attendance of the past games it's not comparable to home games.
> We also have the feeling the attendance communicated by the club is often lower than what it is in reality...


You said that other teams are getting "less than a tenth" of your crowd, so it would be good to see the actual figures.


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> You said that other teams are getting "less than a tenth" of your crowd, so it wold be good to see the actual figures.


You can find something here: Essex Senior League - NonLeagueMatters
Of course you can imagine who some teams were playing when they had their highest attendance


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

This is from the 2016-2017 ESL handbook:


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> You can find something here: Essex Senior League - NonLeagueMatters
> Of course you can imagine who some teams were playing when they had their highest attendance


Clapton's last home game attracted a crowd of 135. Barking's last home games had 95, 70 and 45 people - not quite so small as you made out then.
Results | The Official Website Of The Essex Senior League


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Clapton's last home game attracted a crowd of 135. Barking's last home games had 95, 70 and 45 people - not quite so small as you made out then.
> Results | The Official Website Of The Essex Senior League


Seriously, if you're taking the piss tell me straight away as I don't want to waste my time.
"How come other clubs in the league survive and have many youth teams (Barking has around 22 if I am not wrong) and women's teams (London Bari), an attendance of less than a tenth of Clapton and still manage to survive?"
Re-read this sentence, not that difficult. What/who do i want to make small?
It's funny also you mention them and not the ones who had attendances of 4, 6, 20...

And that game on Tuesday was exactly on of those in which we had the feeling the attendance was lowered by the Chairman.

I am the happiest person if the other clubs have higher attendance and if people care more about their local club.
I am not trying to compete with anybody in the league about numbers, I know Clapton is only different for now and we try to support all clubs we visit as we can and work with them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> Seriously, if you're taking the piss tell me straight away as I don't want to waste my time.


what the fuck are you doing on urban than?


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> what the fuck are you doing on urban than?


i still have a little hope in humanity (and most important thing i can't stand when shit is said about CU. I am not trying to convince who talks shit about us, but at least trying to show others that it's not always what those people say)


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> i still have a little hope in humanity (and most important thing i can't stand when shit is said about CU. I am not trying to convince who talks shit about us, but at least trying to show others that it's not always what those people say)


no, if you don't want to waste your time wtf are you doing on urban?


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> Seriously, if you're taking the piss tell me straight away as I don't want to waste my time.
> "How come other clubs in the league survive and have many youth teams (Barking has around 22 if I am not wrong) and women's teams (London Bari), an attendance of less than a tenth of Clapton and still manage to survive?"
> Re-read this sentence, not that difficult. What/who do i want to make small?
> It's funny also you mention them and not the ones who had attendances of 4, 6, 20...
> ...


Then please be accurate with your claims. It's not too much to ask.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> what the fuck are you doing on urban than?



Getting into the swing of it by the looks of things.


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Then please be accurate with your claims. It's not too much to ask.


are you for real?
Some clubs have many youth teams and womens teams and an attendance of less than a tenth: 
- London Bari average attendance this year is 19 (with the highest being when Clapton played them)
Many clubs had even attendances of ZERO and their average is below 40 (and most of their highest is again when Clapton played against them).

What do you want me to write and how?


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> are you for real?
> Some clubs have many youth teams and womens teams and an attendance of less than a tenth:
> - London Bari average attendance this year is 19 (with the highest being when Clapton played them)
> Many clubs had even attendances of ZERO and their average is below 40 (and most of their highest is again when Clapton played against them).
> ...


Err, who was talking about youth teams and womens team? Not you, that's for sure. 

Please try to be honest.


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Err, who was talking about youth teams and womens team? Not you, that's for sure.
> 
> Please try to be honest.


uh? What?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> i still have a little hope in humanity (and most important thing i can't stand when shit is said about CU. I am not trying to convince who talks shit about us, but at least trying to show others that it's not always what those people say)



I'd leave it pal, this thread started with people gloating about fascist attacks on Clapton, so there's a kind of grim logic to getting here, with posters essentially  backing a weaselly chairman against grassroots fans-  I know folk have too much time on their hands, but still, it's fucking embarassing, best left to it.


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> I'd leave it pal, this thread started with people gloating about fascist attacks on Clapton, so there's a kind of grim logic to getting here, with posters essentially  backing a weaselly chairman against grassroots fans-  I know folk have too much time on their hands, but still, it's fucking embarassing, best left to it.


Exactly how many posters here are 'essentially  backing a weaselly chairman against grassroots fans'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> I'd leave it pal, this thread started with people gloating about fascist attacks on Clapton, so there's a kind of grim logic to getting here, with posters essentially  backing a weaselly chairman against grassroots fans-  I know folk have too much time on their hands, but still, it's fucking embarassing, best left to it.


i see you jumped into the thread at post #2


----------



## cantsin (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Exactly how many posters here are 'essentially  backing a weaselly chairman against grassroots fans'?



I leaving you to it ed, this thread = wank


----------



## cantsin (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i see you jumped into the thread at post #2



and ?


----------



## hipipol (Dec 1, 2016)

Could any of the academically inclined Clapton Ultras explain which end of the boiled egg should be broken first?
And was this dispute the basis of the long running antagonism betwixt Clapton and pretty much the rest of the World?


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> I leaving you to it ed, this thread = wank


Before you go, at least back up your claim with some numbers. So, how many posters here are 'essentially backing a weaselly chairman against grassroots fans'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> and ?


nothing, just following on from your post 1455

e2a: be nice if you quoted some gloating mind.


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Before you go, at least back up your claim with some numbers. So, how many posters here are 'essentially backing a weaselly chairman against grassroots fans'?



I am also waiting for you to explain where i wasn't honest.
You seem to get quite offende when somebody makes claims you don't think they're right about you, so explain me where i wasn't honest.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> I am also waiting for you to explain where i wasn't honest.
> You seem to get quite offende when somebody makes claims you don't think they're right about you, so explain me where i wasn't honest.


from my pov any issues with your dis/honesty started with the way that your claims about the hedley day conflicted with the statement issued by cu. either you're talking shit or they are: but someone certainly is.


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> from my pov any issues with your dis/honesty started with the way that your claims about the hedley day conflicted with the statement issued by cu. either you're talking shit or they are: but someone certainly is.


????
Where did they conflict?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> nothing, just following on from your post 1455
> 
> e2a: be nice if you quoted some gloating mind.



(I can't now, as temporarily self-excluded from thread, but a quick visit to page 1 should sort you out)


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> I am also waiting for you to explain where i wasn't honest.
> You seem to get quite offende when somebody makes claims you don't think they're right about you, so explain me where i wasn't honest.


Look to the posts I was replying to at the time. Context really is useful.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> ????
> Where did they conflict?


see e.g. post 864


----------



## Lucy Fur (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> from my pov any issues with your dis/honesty started with the way that your claims about the hedley day conflicted with the statement issued by cu. either you're talking shit or they are: but someone certainly is.


Lets not rule out the 'their both talking shit' option.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

Lucy Fur said:


> Lets not rule out the 'their both talking shit' option.


yes, the third way


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Look to the posts I was replying to at the time. Context really is useful.


What an answer is this?
If i ask it's because I don't see that, explain me then please!


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> What an answer is this?
> If i ask it's because I don't see that, explain me then please!


Let me just check against my list of things that are more important than answering your sudden request relating to a post from several days ago. 

Oh yes, I may take quite a while to get around to that. Like a few years, minimum.


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

you're such a fucking dick it's impressive.


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> see e.g. post 864


I replied to that and explained what i meant.
Not sure what game you're playing.


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> you're such a fucking dick it's impressive.


Tut tut. Language, Timothy. 

It's not my fault that you've made such an arse of yourself on this thread and keep getting caught out.


----------



## hipipol (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> I leaving you to it ed, this thread = wank


What a strange sex life you must have..... or more likely some form of Visual agnosia
You may find the work of Dr Oliver Sachs both useful and comforting
_The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat - 

"The book comprises twenty-four essays split into four sections, each dealing with a particular aspect of brain function such as deficits and excesses in the first two sections (with particular emphasis on the right hemisphere of the brain) while the third and fourth describe phenomenological manifestations with reference to spontaneous reminiscences, altered perceptions, and extraordinary qualities of mind found in mentally handicapped people."_


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> I replied to that and explained what i meant.
> Not sure what game you're playing.


see also posts 844, 846, 855...


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Tut tut. Language, Timothy.
> 
> It's not my fault that you've made such an arse of yourself on this thread and keep getting caught out.


We were talking today about numbers and attendances at Clapton and other clubs in ESL and all of a sudden you wanted to play the smart ass but still couldn't manage to explain what you pretended to show i was wrong with.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 1, 2016)

hipipol said:


> What a strange sex life you must have..... or more likely some form of Visual agnosia
> You may find the work of Dr Oliver Sachs both useful and comforting
> _The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat -
> 
> "The book comprises twenty-four essays split into four sections, each dealing with a particular aspect of brain function such as deficits and excesses in the first two sections (with particular emphasis on the right hemisphere of the brain) while the third and fourth describe phenomenological manifestations with reference to spontaneous reminiscences, altered perceptions, and extraordinary qualities of mind found in mentally handicapped people."_



ah nice, some self satisfied literary reference to "mentally handicapped people", well done, a fitting end matey :  pretentiou,s posh sixth former style bollocks,  good stuff....


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> ah nice, some self satisfied literary reference to "mentally handicapped people", well done, a fitting end matey :  pretentious / playground style bollocks,  good stuff....



Self imposed self ban over?


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> see also posts 844, 846, 855...


i must be stupid or i don't understand english, but i really can't see discrepancies between statement and what i said.
and that's why i asked repeatedly to clarify what you meant even back then


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> i must be stupid or i don't understand english, but i really can't see discrepancies between statement and what i said.
> and that's why i asked repeatedly to clarify what you meant even back then


After the personal abuse you've dished out, you can go scuttle off to the Scaffold VIP area and sit and swivel on something spiky, sunshine.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> The main problem with this post is that it is opposed by the cu statement, which shows 1) sh and those stood with him arrived *before* cu, so could pick their plot: not a provocation, but in the absence of assigned seating/standing reasonable. 2) the initial contact between the groups made by cu who "challenged" sh etc although in what language we're not told - it did lead to a response, however, which may offer a clue. 3) the actual fisticuffs were provoked, on their own evidence, by cu / cu allies after the match. Nothing about sh approaching anyone, nothing about these so-called allies initiating events. But should we trust this statement, which you have suggested isn't entirely accurate?





k12m said:


> Not sure if you go to football,but "occupying" a space where football supporters usually stand is a big probocation.


ok, so now it's NOT sh/cl but miffed cu





> I personally had to convince people to move to another end of the ground because despite the presence of sh they didn't want to accept leaving tour "home" to somebody else.


grand





> 2- it was all verbal but as said we got beers thrown at us and what I called the "turkey breast walk" by some people (not Celtic)
> 3- I am not sure what you mean but I am sure some peoples fell in a trap accurately planned by few. Surely the Celtic people, probably we did too on my opinion.
> What dlo you suggest the statement should have said Moore?


the length is immaterial but the veracity or lack thereof is important


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

editor said:


> After the personal abuse you've dished out, you can go scuttle off to the Scaffold VIP area and sit and swivel on something spiky, sunshine.


----------



## hipipol (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> ah nice, some self satisfied literary reference to "mentally handicapped people", well done, a fitting end matey :  pretentiou,s posh sixth former style bollocks,  good stuff....


As you will see I simply lifted the summary from Wiki and as such am not the creator of the sentence but
apologise for any offense given - do you agree with the rest of it?


----------



## Sweet FA (Dec 1, 2016)

Fucking hell, he's (k12m) not wrong about the smartarse answers though is he? He's not the one pissing about, having digs then being too busy to clarify. Vague statements about 'not understanding non-league football' then when he asks what exactly he's not understanding, gets cunted off again. Clearly winding him up then when he get pissed off, going all passive aggressive. Plus he's doing all this in his second language. Some embarrassing shit on this thread.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

Sweet FA said:


> Fucking hell, he's (k12m) not wrong about the smartarse answers though is he? He's not the one pissing about, having digs then being too busy to clarify. Vague statements about 'not understanding non-league football' then when he asks what exactly he's not understanding, gets cunted off again. Clearly winding him up then when he get pissed off, going all passive aggressive. Plus he's doing all this in his second language. Some embarrassing shit on this thread.


i think it's rather patronising to assume he's finding it really difficult to cope in english, when he's clearly not finding it difficult


----------



## editor (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


>


I prefer the hair to the right, please.


----------



## k12m (Dec 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i think it's rather patronising to assume he's finding it really difficult to cope in english, when he's clearly not finding it difficult


tbf i struggle a bit with your posts (especially the one before the last one. never heard "miffed" before nor i understood the last sentence)


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## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> tbf i struggle a bit with your posts (especially the one before the last one. never heard "miffed" before nor i understood the last sentence)


very easy: the length isn't important but its truthfulness is important.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> tbf i struggle a bit with your posts (especially the one before the last one. never heard "miffed" before nor i understood the last sentence)



Miffed = disgruntled.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 1, 2016)

k12m said:


> So explain then, as you got all the knowledge.
> Enlight me and enrich me, Sir.
> What's the rant then? I gave you numbers and your reply is "you have no idea how it works". Really poor, sir. I am not sure you can do better than that though...
> 
> ...


I will try and keep it simple not because I think you are stupid but because the way some non league clubs are run by their owners can sometimes be purposely complicated. Yes Vince is coining it in but if he really does want promotion and if you want to support a real football club playing at a higher level than the current one then the flares have to go, your gigantic flags have to go and your crates of alcohol have to go. None of those will be tolerated at the next level of football. Even at the current level you play at, fines are being given for the Ultras misdemeanours. It would now appear as you are not prepared to adhere to league rules yourselves, Vince has now shelled out for security staff to ensure he tries to keep the club at Essex Senior League level let alone any higher. It may come as a surprise to you but no league will continue to allow your breaking of the rules. I am very surprised that your home counties Ultra friends have not explained all this to you or maybe they have ulterior motives to keep you in the dark. Only they can answer that question.


----------



## TopCat (Dec 2, 2016)

Inside Italy’s ultras: the dangerous fans who control the game | Tobias Jones

Interesting read. Funny as fuck how some are modelling themselves on Ultra culture in microcosism given they have only been watching football for three years max.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> So that makes the video untrue? or 107 comments made up? I have plenty more, but then again it would all be warped etc.
> Why do you think they have been very selective in the people they have outed? I will leave it to Dr ring a ding to investigate and report back. If you do your task properly I assure you everything you obviously think about those self righteous clowns will be blown high out of the water. Now get off the keyboard and start looking under the veneer of whatever the clowns claim to be.



So it is now over two months since DR Ringding started his investigations and nothing but........Silence.
Then again some have been waiting nearly two years for the Cultras to justify their actions.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> I will try and keep it simple not because I think you are stupid but because the way some non league clubs are run by their owners can sometimes be purposely complicated. Yes Vince is coining it in but if he really does want promotion and if you want to support a real football club playing at a higher level than the current one then the flares have to go, your gigantic flags have to go and your crates of alcohol have to go. None of those will be tolerated at the next level of football. Even at the current level you play at, fines are being given for the Ultras misdemeanours. It would now appear as you are not prepared to adhere to league rules yourselves, Vince has now shelled out for security staff to ensure he tries to keep the club at Essex Senior League level let alone any higher. It may come as a surprise to you but no league will continue to allow your breaking of the rules. I am very surprised that your home counties Ultra friends have not explained all this to you or maybe they have ulterior motives to keep you in the dark. Only they can answer that question.


I am not impressed, I thought you knew more about it or at least would think more about what getting promoted would mean.
The ground is a SHIT HOLE. Full of rubbish, broken fences (really dangerous actually as once they fell and people ended up falling on each other), toilets are in a container, sewage is fucked in changing rooms and often the away team one doesn't have hot water etc...
When you apply for promotion you have to obige to some requirements as a parking space and other stuff like the amount of seated places for supporters if I am not wrong.
Do you think Vince really wants promotion for Clapton FC considering how is treating the ground and not doing any work, despite all the money he gets?
I think I know more about running a club what what you think (and thanks for not considering me a stupid  )
There is some photos in an article on Clapton FC News showing the state of the Old Spotted Dog. It's embarrassing


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Inside Italy’s ultras: the dangerous fans who control the game | Tobias Jones
> 
> Interesting read. Funny as fuck how some are modelling themselves on Ultra culture in microcosism given they have only been watching football for three years max.


Some who? Where? What?
Stop this bullshit


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## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Some who? Where? What?
> Stop this bullshit


some who? some you. where? clapton. what? what what?


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I am not impressed, I thought you knew more about it or at least would think more about what getting promoted would mean.
> The ground is a SHIT HOLE. Full of rubbish, broken fences (really dangerous actually as once they fell and people ended up falling on each other), toilets are in a container, sewage is fucked in changing rooms and often the away team one doesn't have hot water etc...
> When you apply for promotion you have to obige to some requirements as a parking space and other stuff like the amount of seated places for supporters if I am not wrong.
> Do you think Vince really wants promotion for Clapton FC considering how is treating the ground and not doing any work, despite all the money he gets?
> I think I know more about running a club what what you think (and thanks for not considering me a stupid  )


But you accept that all those flares and crates of booze may also play a part in the stopping the club gain promotion?

Don't get me wrong here: I fucking love flares at football and I hate the fact that Hamlet has stopped people bringing in their own booze, but all of that is coming if you get promotion.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Out if 400 people you surely have some who have never been to football, and I am happy if they come and enjoy their day and start liking the football.
But this idea that Clapton ultras (as the people who are more involved and are part of the group) are just football supporters wannabe is just bullshit 100%


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> But this idea that Clapton ultras (as the people who are more involved and are part of the group) are just football supporters wannabe is just bullshit 100%


wannabe what?


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

editor said:


> But you accept that all those flares and crates of booze may also play a part in the stopping the club gain promotion?
> 
> Don't get me wrong here: I fucking love flares at football and I hate the fact that Hamlet has stopped people bringing in their own booze, but all of that is coming if you get promotion.


I am not saying it is not a reason at all, but I think a £250 fine (this is the naximum the club can be charged) is nothing compared to all the money supporters bring in the club and the real expensive investments that should be done for having the application approved.
I can't see that happening in any near future and I am sure it wouldn't be for the pyros or booze.
Also those are things which can be stopped from one day to another and we've been relatively D) responsible in not using pyros during games but just after full time to avoid getting the game called off for example


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> wannabe what?


Football supporters. Wrong words order I guess


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I am not saying it is not a reason at all, but I think a £250 fine (this is the naximum the club can be charged) is nothing compared to all the money supporters bring in the club and the real expensive investments that should be done for having the application approved.
> I can't see that happening in any near future and I am sure it wouldn't be for the pyros or booze.
> Also those are things which can be stopped from one day to another and we've been relatively D) responsible in not using pyros during games but just after full time to avoid getting the game called off for example


those £250 fines add up over time


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## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> ok, so now it's NOT sh/cl but miffed cugrandthe length is immaterial but the veracity or lack thereof is important


I'll reply to this later, I am not escaping before you say it


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## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> those £250 fines add up over time


It's £250 maximum per game.
Once Vince was telling us he got fined up to £750 for one game, fines were going up etc etc...
We told him we knew it was a max of £250 for failure of controlling supporters and then he had to admit he got fined for showers not working and other stuff...
What I hate is the lack of transparency from the league. In Italy every league posts online a list of all fines and it is public to see. I think the leagues here should do the same and it pisses me off we can't have any source where double checking if Vince is taking the piss.
We went to a ground and they told us last time they got fined for our booze and pyros (I felt sorry for that tbh, I don't care only if it happens to Vince) and the fine was £30. So, who's saying the truth?
It's possible Clapton gets charged 250 every time, but how and why should I believe it?


----------



## TopCat (Dec 2, 2016)

I am sympathetic regarding the owner of the club being a wanker.

How this relates to the attack on anti fascists, the grassing, the repeated lies I dont know. 

Looks like a piss poor attempt to gloss over events and extract sympathy.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> It's £250 maximum per game.
> Once Vince was telling us he got fined up to £750 for one game, fines were going up etc etc...
> We told him we knew it was a max of £250 for failure of controlling supporters and then he had to admit he got fined for showers not working and other stuff...
> What I hate is the lack of transparency from the league. In Italy every league posts online a list of all fines and it is public to see. I think the leagues here should do the same and it pisses me off we can't have any source where double checking if Vince is taking the piss.
> ...


yeh. but why should we believe you when as i have pointed out on a number of occasions on this thread, where there are accounts by which to check you there are clear discrepancies between what you say, and what clapton ultras say.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Jesus Christ, I told you I'll reply to that later as its a boring subject I wanted to take a break and have a chat about Vince.
Give me a break, I am a human too 

Also what's not to be believed about what I wrote?
If this is how you want to have a discussion, that doesn't go anywhere, what's the point of writing?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Jesus Christ, I told you I'll reply to that later as its a boring subject I wanted to take a break and have a chat about Vince.
> Give me a break, I am a human too
> 
> Also what's not to be believed about what I wrote?
> If this is how you want to have a discussion, that doesn't go anywhere, what's the point of writing?


your first post on this thread was iirc reposting the clapton ultras statement.when questioned your account differed from that put out by the ultras. someone is lying. and if it isn't you it's them.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

TopCat said:


> I am sympathetic regarding the owner of the club being a wanker.
> 
> How this relates to the attack on anti fascists, the grassing, the repeated lies I dont know.
> 
> Looks like a piss poor attempt to gloss over events and extract sympathy.


Somebody posted articles not related to the original subject, I thought it was interesting to give and insight as it seems I am the only cu in here.
I answer questions, reply to messages and give my point of view on things related to Clapton. 
I agree with you it's all off topic, but it's not as you think I want to extract sympathy.

Ah and regarding sympathy: I think there should be a common solidarity between everybody at least to keep clubs running. I personally am really worried about the future of Dulwich for example as I understood they're in treat of keeping the club. I wish I am wrong of course. Despite all football "rivalry" things people can say, I'd never be happy if a club disappears, even my biggest rival in Italy (I hate them).


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I am not saying it is not a reason at all, but I think a £250 fine (this is the naximum the club can be charged) is nothing compared to all the money supporters bring in the club and the real expensive investments that should be done for having the application approved.
> I can't see that happening in any near future and I am sure it wouldn't be for the pyros or booze.
> Also those are things which can be stopped from one day to another and we've been relatively D) responsible in not using pyros during games but just after full time to avoid getting the game called off for example


£250 is quite a chunk of cash for a small club, especially if the fines are regular. But just to repeat: if I was in charge of football, I'd have fucking pyros everywhere. I love them and I can't stand this ludicrous stance that the authorities take. Used responsibly and they add a ton of atmosphere and fun to a game.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Somebody posted articles not related to the original subject, I thought it was interesting to give and insight as it seems I am the only cu in here.
> I answer questions, reply to messages and give my point of view on things related to Clapton.
> I agree with you it's all off topic, but it's not as you think I want to extract sympathy.
> 
> Ah and regarding sympathy: I think there should be a common solidarity between everybody at least to keep clubs running. I personally am really worried about the future of Dulwich for example as I understood they're in treat of keeping the club. I wish I am wrong of course. Despite all football "rivalry" things people can say, I'd never be happy if a club disappears, even my biggest rival in Italy (I hate them).


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


>



I can't think of anything more depressing in British football than the Celtic/Rangers sectarianism.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

editor said:


> I can't think of anything more depressing in British football than the Celtic/Rangers sectarianism.


the way in which the top english clubs have effectually prevented money descending to the lower leagues as it used to.

the imposition of all-seater stadiums on clubs and the subsequent pricing out of so many traditional fans.


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> the way in which the top english clubs have effectually prevented money descending to the lower leagues as it used to.


That's depressing too, but not as depressing as the Celtic/Rangers sectarianism.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Somebody posted articles not related to the original subject, I thought it was interesting to give and insight as it seems I am the only cu in here.
> I answer questions, reply to messages and give my point of view on things related to Clapton.
> I agree with you it's all off topic, but it's not as you think I want to extract sympathy.
> 
> The only reason you are the only cultra here is because they cannot justify their continual lies and misdemeanours. As I said before ask them pertinent questions. You are either being completely disingenious or the cultras are playing you for a fool. Ask the right questions, be persistent with them and you will see the veneer quickly disappears and what is underneath is for you to decide. How much more guidance do you need?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I am not saying it is not a reason at all, but I think a £250 fine (this is the naximum the club can be charged) is nothing compared to all the money supporters bring in the club and the real expensive investments that should be done for having the application approved.
> I can't see that happening in any near future and I am sure it wouldn't be for the pyros or booze.
> Also those are things which can be stopped from one day to another and we've been relatively D) responsible in not using pyros during games but just after full time to avoid getting the game called off for example


you really really don't get it and are totally naive. Look up F.A. rules(which every club at Step 9 and above adheres to). flares can result in a lifetime ban at any ground in the country, taking booze into a game is illegal and finally waving those soppy flags pitchside is also against the rules.


----------



## TopCat (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Somebody posted articles not related to the original subject, I thought it was interesting to give and insight as it seems I am the only cu in here.
> I answer questions, reply to messages and give my point of view on things related to Clapton.
> I agree with you it's all off topic, but it's not as you think I want to extract sympathy.
> 
> Ah and regarding sympathy: I think there should be a common solidarity between everybody at least to keep clubs running. I personally am really worried about the future of Dulwich for example as I understood they're in treat of keeping the club. I wish I am wrong of course. Despite all football "rivalry" things people can say, I'd never be happy if a club disappears, even my biggest rival in Italy (I hate them).


You are the only CU here as the rest know they cant answer for the lies, the attack on anti fascists, the grassing etc.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

TopCat said:


> You are the only CU here as the rest know they cant answer for the lies, the attack on anti fascists, the grassing etc.


I responded to everything.
It's funny you talk about grassing while the only video online is taken by somebody on your side (and I personally know who) and the "grass" who caused the cleltic fan to be in trouble wasn't even a clapton fan. And you know it.
You're hilarious


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## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> you really really don't get it and are totally naive. Look up F.A. rules(which every club at Step 9 and above adheres to). flares can result in a lifetime ban at any ground in the country, taking booze into a game is illegal and finally waving those soppy flags pitchside is also against the rules.


No, I am not. Funny enough some FA rules don't apply to our ground because it doesn't fall under certain requirements.
I'll find more about it and let you know, but yeah no life time bans in our cases.
I'd like to know more about the flags BTW, I have never heard about this rule. Could you find where it is mentioned in FA handbooks or whatever they are?


----------



## TopCat (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I responded to everything.
> It's funny you talk about grassing while the only video online is taken by somebody on your side (and I personally know who) and the "grass" who caused the cleltic fan to be in trouble wasn't even a clapton fan. And you know it.
> You're hilarious


Address the attack then and the lies. I dont find any of it funny.


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## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

And while I am on the subject of disingenious. Your soppy flags must be at least a monkey and more each. That is the equivalent of an annual season ticket at any premiership ground in London, so don't pretend you can't afford to see Buster blood vessel and you are a pauper forced to watch non league football.


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## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> And while I am on the subject of disingenious. Your soppy flags must be at least a monkey and more each. That is the equivalent of an annual season ticket at any premiership ground in London, so don't pretend you can't afford to see Buster blood vessel and you are a pauper forced to watch non league football.


Ahahahah Ahahahah
This is one of the most stupid things I've ever read on here 
So basically having big flags it means I could afford to every game of a premiership club home and away.
This is brilliant


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Address the attack then and the lies. I dont find any of it funny.


Search in the topic and you'll find everything, dear friend of grasses!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> And while I am on the subject of disingenious. Your soppy flags must be at least a monkey and more each. That is the equivalent of an annual season ticket at any premiership ground in London, so don't pretend you can't afford to see Buster blood vessel and you are a pauper forced to watch non league football.



Cheapest Arsenal season ticket is a grand.


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## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Ahahahah Ahahahah
> This is one of the most stupid things I've ever read on here
> So basically having big flags it means I could afford to every game of a premiership club home and away.
> This is brilliant


I had to search also what a monkey is in terms of money.
£500 each or is the website I found wrong?
Please tell me it's not like that


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

FOOTBALL FANS, SMOKE BOMBS AND FLARES – FACT SHEET What is the law governing smoke bombs and flares at football matches? The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985. It is on offence for a person to enter or attempt to enter a football ground while in possession of a flare, smoke bomb or firework. The sentence for these offences can be as much as three months in prison, and in many cases, fans who have no previous convictions are being given prison sentences for attempting to enter a football ground with a smoke bomb in their pocket as the courts take these offences very seriously. There are two different offences (1) possession in the football ground; and (2) possession while attempting to enter. Although logically, attempting to enter a football ground seems to be less culpable than a fan who has managed to get the smoke bomb, flare or firework into the football ground, in real terms the courts do not consider one offence to be more serious than the other. Fans searched prior to entering the football ground and found to be in possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb, have still been given custodial sentences. What does 'attempting to enter' a football ground mean? The courts have decided that 'attempting to enter' means much more than a person who is searched at the turnstiles. Fans have been given a prison sentence for carrying a smoke bomb in their pocket when exiting the train station closest to the football ground, or when walking through the car park on the way to the football ground. A court is likely to decide that a fan who is in possession of a ticket and is close to the ground is ‘attempting to enter’. Is it more serious to carry a flare or a firework instead of a smoke bomb? Although a firework or flare may be seen as more dangerous than a smoke bomb to most people, the courts do not seem to distinguish between them. Fans have been sentenced to three months in prison for carrying a smoke bomb, without having actually let it off. What is a firework? Even a sparkler falls within the definition of firework, as do bangers and anything else that has a Firework Standard logo on it. What is a smoke bomb? Anything which emits smoke or visible gas, even something which is home made. Will a conviction for possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb result in a football banning order? It is highly likely that the court will impose a football banning order on a fan who is convicted of possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb at a football match. The very nature of the offence means that the prosecution are likely to be able to persuade the court that the offence is football related, and that it is necessary to impose the order to prevent the offence happening again. How long will the Football Banning Order last? Most football banning orders imposed by a court after a conviction for a football related offence are for 3 years. This does not only prevent the fan from attending football matches for the next 3 years, but can prevent them from entering the town of their football team on match days, and require them to hand their passport to the Police when the England or Wales national team are playing overseas (as appropriate). A football banning order will show up on a Criminal Records Bureau checks and may prevent a fan from obtaining a visa to travel to countries such as the USA, or working in certain professions, such as working with children. In addition, football clubs have issued life bans to fans who have been convicted of possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb, meaning that even once the football banning order has expired, you may still be banned by your club. What is the law on the carrying of flares, smoke bombs and fireworks for people aged under 18? The Fireworks Regulations Act 2004 In addition to the above law, it is also an offence for a person under the age of 18 to be found carrying a firework in a public place. Smoke bombs have the Firework Standard label on them and will be classed as a firework. This doesn't just apply to people under 18 going to football matches but applies to all under 18 year olds when they are out in public places such as the park or town centre. The police can issue an £80 fixed penalty notice to anyone under the age of 18 found in possession of a firework in a public place. Is it an offence for an adult to have a firework in their possession if they are not going to a match? No, it is not illegal for a person over 18 years to possess a firework, flare or smoke bomb, but it is illegal for a person over 18 years to let off the firework, flare or smoke bomb in a public place. A person over the age of 18 cannot legally be arrested for being in possession of a firework, flare or smoke bomb, other than when entering or attempting to enter a football match. For instance, the arrest of a football fan at a service station for possession of a smoke bomb in their car is an unlawful arrest unless the fan admits to the police officer that they intended to take the firework, flare or smoke bomb into the football ground later that day. Be warned that even though fans may not think that having a smoke bomb or flare in their pocket is a serious offence, the police and football club take it very seriously and even a fan with no previous convictions faces a real risk of going to prison. Spread the word to your friends and fellow fans... Our thanks to Alison Gurden, Barrister, for providing the information above. www.fsf.org.


Maybe or k12m  Cultra fan could give Alison a call and tell her F. A. rules don't apply at Clapton FC.
How can you tell so many lies in one thread. I now fully understand why you are a cultra.


----------



## Athos (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> And while I am on the subject of disingenious. Your soppy flags must be at least a monkey and more each. That is the equivalent of an annual season ticket at any premiership ground in London, so don't pretend you can't afford to see Buster blood vessel and you are a pauper forced to watch non league football.


I've been with you until now. But this is a bit silly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Cheapest Arsenal season ticket is a grand.


ah but cu have more than one flag


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I had to search also what a monkey is in terms of money.
> £500 each or is the website I found wrong?
> Please tell me it's not like that


Yes a monkey is £500 and another give away about the cultras, you would not have asked any of your home counties cultra chums, not one of them would know what a monkey is because none of em know the lingo.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> ah but cu have more than one flag


we got a mortgage to pay them all


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> No, I am not. Funny enough some FA rules don't apply to our ground because it doesn't fall under certain requirements.
> I'll find more about it and let you know, but yeah no life time bans in our cases.
> I'd like to know more about the flags BTW, I have never heard about this rule. Could you find where it is mentioned in FA handbooks or whatever they are?


tbh flag poles are banned under the clapton ground rules anyway Ground Rules – Clapton Football Club

 

you might like to acquaint yourself with the rules of the auld spotted dog


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I had to search also what a monkey is in terms of money.
> £500 each or is the website I found wrong?
> Please tell me it's not like that



£750 is a gorilla. Because it's a monkey and a half.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

Athos said:


> I've been with you until now. But this is a bit silly.


If they can shell out over a grand for their two gerrynormous flags then their "we don't have a pot to piss in" just does not stand up. I can't be bothered to put the video of the things up, but trust me they block out the sun!


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Yes a monkey is £500 and another give away about the cultras, you would not have asked any of your home counties cultra chums, not one of them would know what a monkey is because none of em know the lingo.


You forgot I am from Italy, so don't play the cool one.
And yeah, you said something really really stupid on the flags so you should better close it here 



Pickman's model said:


> tbh flag poles are banned under the clapton ground rules anyway Ground Rules – Clapton Football Club
> View attachment 96476
> you might like to acquaint yourself with the rules of the auld spotted dog


Yeah good point, but maybe you didn't realise that's just a copy+paste from other teams from upper leagues so most of the rules are not applicable at all


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> If they can shell out over a grand for their two gerrynormous flags then their "we don't have a pot to piss in" just does not stand up. I can't be bothered to put the video of the things up, but trust me they block out the sun!


Do you want to see the invoices?
We paid as much as an away ticket of premier league for each. And another one I painted it with my ex girlfriend in my flat, maybe I should have charged the ultras £500 rather than doing it for free 
Please keep going on, you're hilarious


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> You forgot I am from Italy, so don't play the cool one.
> And yeah, you said something really really stupid on the flags so you should better close it here
> 
> 
> Yeah good point, but maybe you didn't realise that's just a copy+paste from other teams from upper leagues so most of the rules are not applicable at all


So you don't give a fuck about the ground rules appearing on the cfc site


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> ah but cu have more than one flag


Not like the Italian Ultras. Theirs is the biggest and I am sure k12m will confirm, by far the best. Once those two are being waved they are all you can see for miles.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> So you don't give a fuck about the ground rules appearing on the cfc site


I personally dont' and to be hoenst with you: the more fines Vince gets the happier I am.



The Flying Pig said:


> Not like the Italian Ultras. Theirs is the biggest and I am sure k12m will confirm, by far the best. Once those two are being waved they are all you can see for miles.


And if you can't see you can move anywhere else. Easy!


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m obviously does not realise what he is talking about and above all sounds quite ridiculous, I have given him all the valid and sound reasons to investigate the cultras. He is not interested in anything that might lead him to rethink his 2 year love affair. Unless he comes out with any more porky pies I will leave him to it.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> k12m obviously does not realise what he is talking about and above all sounds quite ridiculous, I have given him all the valid and sound reasons to investigate the cultras. He is not interested in anything that might lead him to rethink his 2 year love affair. Unless he comes out with any more porky pies I will leave him to it.


Let me see, I should rethink my involvement in CU because, for example, you are telling me we paid flags £500 while I actually ordered them, I know the price and I got them shipped to my flat?
Does this make you credible and because of your wise words about it I should rethink that?
Thanks but....no 

Btw if you want a big flag I can sort it out for you. Just send me £500


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

Your right I would not pay a monkey for those soppy things. But Vince might have to in fines if you persist.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I personally dont' and to be hoenst with you: the more fines Vince gets the happier I am.


nice to see you being honest


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> nice to see you being honest


Always been, despite what you think sadly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Always been, despite what you think sadly.


right, so it's the cu statement which is untrustworthy.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> right, so it's the cu statement which is untrustworthy.


I am writing you the longest post ever. Only for you


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I am writing you the longest post ever. Only for you


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> And if you can't see you can move anywhere else. Easy!



Well, anywhere apart from the scaffold - unless you meet certain criteria.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I am writing you the longest post ever. Only for you


so you say


----------



## TopCat (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Search in the topic and you'll find everything, dear friend of grasses!


Fuck off you cunt.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

TopCat said:


> Fuck off you cunt.


 

I'll make sure people will know they have to smile next time




Pickman's model said:


> so you say


Sorry, got to pretend I am working here an there


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Sorry, got to pretend I am working here an there


if your work is like your posts you'll be free to spend as long posting as you like soon.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I'll make sure people will know they have to smile next time


didn't know you were one of the neils


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> didn't know you were one of the neils


Didn't get it again  
Neils as...? I tried urban dictionary but there were too many meanings


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Didn't get it again
> Neils as...? I tried urban dictionary but there were too many meanings


the forward intelligence team photographers all seemed to be called neil. i did not know you were a neil. i did not know you were a cop.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> the forward intelligence team photographers all seemed to be called neil. i did not know you were a neil. i did not know you were a cop.


Ah ok, poor joke. I was expecting better from you!
And probably you should do this joke with the ones who like to take videos of people to post them on youtube and give others problems.
It happened only twice with CU with the fash in Thamesmead and somebody who was standing with SH.
Funny isn't it?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Yes a monkey is £500 and another give away about the cultras, you would not have asked any of your home counties cultra chums, not one of them would know what a monkey is because none of em know the lingo.



.

are you OB, hiding in plain sight so to speak ? Would explain a lot


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Ah ok, poor joke. I was expecting better from you!
> And probably you should do this joke with the ones who like to take videos of people to post them on youtube and give others problems.
> It happened only twice with CU with the fash in Thamesmead and somebody who was standing with SH.
> Funny isn't it?


could you perhaps make your meaning clearer


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> could you perhaps make your meaning clearer


You mean I should explain better what I wrote?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> You mean I should explain better what I wrote?


who are "the ones who like to take videos of people to post them on youtube"? who is "somebody who stood with sh"?


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> who are "the ones who like to take videos of people to post them on youtube"? who is "somebody who stood with sh"?


Sure: you surely saw the video of the SH incident at the end of the game. That was shot by somebody who stood on SH side, shared by those same people and used to identify some people appearing in it.
Have you seen any post from CU (or even me in this forum) with images, videos or even mentioning names of other people rather than SH?
As my friend said there's only two categories of people who take videos in these circumstances: cops and grasses.
And regarding the Thamesmead incident: the video posted and circulated wasn't ours at all, as we would never be so stupid to take videos or photos.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 2, 2016)

I think there is a third category, people who were bemused at grown women throwing beer cans at another supporter.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Sure: you surely saw the video of the SH incident at the end of the game.


i don't believe i did





> That was shot by somebody who stood on SH side, shared by those same people and used to identify some people appearing in it.
> Have you seen any post from CU (or even me in this forum) with images, videos or even mentioning names of other people rather than SH?
> As my friend said there's only two categories of people who take videos in these circumstances: cops and grasses.


so in which category would you place mcbean?





> And regarding the Thamesmead incident: the video posted and circulated wasn't ours at all, as we would never be so stupid to take videos or photos.


either it is yours or it isn't. but 'we would never be so stupid to take videos or photos'? are you sure?


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Fingers said:


> I think there is a third category, people who were bemused at grown women throwing beer cans at another supporter.


That could have been the case if I wouldn't know who shot the video.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't believe i did


It was in the post somewhere...


Pickman's model said:


> so in which category would you place mcbean?


Haven't seen him taking videos or sharing them. I don't really get what you mean


Pickman's model said:


> either it is yours or it isn't. but 'we would never be so stupid to take videos or photos'? are you sure?


Sure about what?


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> > ↑
> > The main problem with this post is that it is opposed by the cu statement, which shows 1) sh and those stood with him arrived *before* cu, so could pick their plot: not a provocation, but in the absence of assigned seating/standing reasonable. 2) the initial contact between the groups made by cu who "challenged" sh etc although in what language we're not told - it did lead to a response, however, which may offer a clue. 3) the actual fisticuffs were provoked, on their own evidence, by cu / cu allies after the match. Nothing about sh approaching anyone, nothing about these so-called allies initiating events. But should we trust this statement, which you have suggested isn't entirely accurate?
> 
> 
> ...



So here it is for the last time (I wish, I'll try to be as clear as possible).

For your question number 1) I can see where you're coming from thinking it could be reasonable to take a space without assigned/allocated seats. What we thought it was a provocation though is not the presence of the Celtic people, but the fact that:
- Celtic people (sorry I never remember how to spell the name of the city they're from  ) were invited by somebody who hasn't been coming to the games for a long time, without us knowing at all (which is alright, but why calling one of the Ultras the previous day out of the blue and not mention it? I really liked them and I had not issues at all with them, with one we even exchange stickers)
- SH presence not even in the ground (we are not the club and we cannot forbid anybody to enter the ground) but in that particular place, with some other of his friends, while he knew he weasn't welcome to stand with us
- the RMT ARMBANDS, which I think is disgraceful for the whole union for their name to be used like that. I asked the man who gave me stickers who told me "I have no idea what it is, I was given to wear by them" (pointing at the RMT lot) and the person who invited them all who admitted "yeah, maybe it was wrong to wear these" when I asked him if he didn't think it was a provocation

All those things together make it a "provocation".
Some who didn't know SH was there were annoyed about the fact "our space" was taken in a way they saw as a provocation on 'ultras terms', because you could like it or not, but many of us come from an ultras background and (maybe stupidly) we care about these things. These are the people I had to convince to move somewhere else who, despite maybe weren't sure about it in ultras terms, were supportive and showed solidarity to the group and the all the others by moving to the other side of the pitch.

Anything else missing?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Haven't seen him taking videos or sharing them. I don't really get what you mean


yeh. i wondered what action had been captured on the cctv cameras referred to in the ground rules.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> So here it is for the last time (I wish, I'll try to be as clear as possible).
> 
> For your question number 1) I can see where you're coming from thinking it could be reasonable to take a space without assigned/allocated seats. What we thought it was a provocation though is not the presence of the Celtic people, but the fact that:
> - Celtic people (sorry I never remember how to spell the name of the city they're from  ) were invited by somebody who hasn't been coming to the games for a long time, without us knowing at all (which is alright, but why calling one of the Ultras the previous day out of the blue and not mention it? I really liked them and I had not issues at all with them, with one we even exchange stickers)
> ...


yes. and you think violence was an appropriate response to this "provocation", to attack people who had come down in solidarity and who donated to your food bank?


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. i wondered what action had been captured on the cctv cameras referred to in the ground rules.


CCTV Cameras?!


I appreciate you have such a great consideration of what the Old Spotted Dog is, but no, never seen a camera there.
I think it's all in the hands of the ref or ESL officials attending games.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> So here it is for the last time (I wish, I'll try to be as clear as possible).
> 
> For your question number 1) I can see where you're coming from thinking it could be reasonable to take a space without assigned/allocated seats. What we thought it was a provocation though is not the presence of the Celtic people, but the fact that:
> - Celtic people (sorry I never remember how to spell the name of the city they're from  ) were invited by somebody who hasn't been coming to the games for a long time, without us knowing at all (which is alright, but why calling one of the Ultras the previous day out of the blue and not mention it? I really liked them and I had not issues at all with them, with one we even exchange stickers)
> ...


before continuing perhaps you should compare and contrast what you have written with the cu statement


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> before continuing perhaps you should compare and contrast what you have written with the cu statement


I asked you several times to make it easy for me to understand what in my posts was contradicting the statement. I swear I am not taking the piss, probably I am stupid, but really can't get my head around this issue!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I find amazing that it's clear to anybody how things went during the "infamous incident" and it's possible to understand reading between the lines of people attacking CU.
> It's clear who called the police, when, for which reason...
> Instead of focussing on that, the army of little puppies who had to defend the master kept blathering about CU responsibilities, creating tensions between CU and other groups.
> I know what the big man says about CU and what he wishes for us, that doesn't sound really antifascist.
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> I asked you several times to make it easy for me to understand what in my posts was contradicting the statement. I swear I am not taking the piss, probably I am stupid, but really can't get my head around this issue!


quote the posts you have trouble understanding.

e2a: fuck it, i was clear about this some months ago and if you can't understand why your description of events occurring differently to the statement doesn't make me suspicious by now then you never will.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> quote the posts you have trouble understanding.


Basically you're saying what I say is different from what the statement says.
I can't see the contradiction and I am asking if you can please point out where what i say is different from the statement.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> I know people from cu who were there on the day. I know people from London af. I used to see cl frequently and have worked with sh in the past. So I know something of the principals in this story. And I cannot say that I know sh injured cl, it could have gone down the way he says or the way she says. Yet you claim to know better than me what happened. I would trust bourgeois justice before your kangaroo court. You said above everything happened after the match, yet the cu statement makes clear there'd been handbags earlier in the afternoon and after an interval cu or *their* "allies" going back and instigating a second incident. You did not mention the provocation there had been earlier in the day. I don't choose to believe other people, I don't even choose to disbelieve you. You simply make it impossible to believe your version of events, especially when any deviation from your version sees me condemned as a dupe.


k12m do you really find this so difficult to understand?


----------



## TopCat (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m So let me guess. you try and smear me as a friend of grasses. If I want to take this up with you I should come to the Scaffold eh?


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> k12m do you really find this so difficult to understand?


Ok got it.
before the match (still inside the ground): CU trying to talk, abusive attitude from the others and beer thrown at us. We then move on behind the goal.
during the match (i think around the end of the first half): an idiot (never seen before or after that at clapton) tries to steal the celtic flag, sadly we haven't noticed and we would have never done it, but that created more tension.
at the end of the game: women decided to confront sh, that escalated and there was a scuffle. 
outside the ground after all this: an incident happened that led to the issues in court for the celtic fan. no clapton fan/ultras was involved AT ALL. i found out after a while reading this forum i think. the person who "grassed" was identified by the same SH friends+Celtic lot, but still we are painted as grasses (weird)

I am not sure if it's the "before the match" formula which is wrong. For that I mean the moments I entered the ground before the game, when we started trying to talk to those people. It could have lasted a bit more than that and also over the first minutes of the game but not much.
Also I stayed for another 20 minutes more or less on the scaffold talking to somebody and trying to understand/explain.

Still not good?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> Ok got it.
> before the match (still inside the ground): CU trying to talk, abusive attitude from the others and beer thrown at us. We then move on behind the goal.
> during the match (i think around the end of the first half): an idiot (never seen before or after that at clapton) tries to steal the celtic flag, sadly we haven't noticed and we would have never done it, but that created more tension.
> at the end of the game: women decided to confront sh, that escalated and there was a scuffle.
> ...


tbh it's the constant shuffling of elements of the story that undermines your account. two and a half months and changes are still appearing


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

TopCat said:


> k12m So let me guess. you try and smear me as a friend of grasses. If I want to take this up with you I should come to the Scaffold eh?


I don't understand why you can call me grass, but I can't call you grass given the fact I got more evidence supporting what I am saying than what you're saying 

Tell me the truth: do you know who shot that video?
Do you know who grassed the Celtic fan to police?

Be honest, I know you know and you can't escape with more lies!


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh it's the constant shuffling of elements of the story that undermines your account. two and a half months and changes are still appearing


You keep throwing these sentences in the pot, but you don't make it clear where I am shuffling elements of the story!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> You keep throwing these sentences in the pot, but you don't make it clear where I am shuffling elements of the story!


in your posts.

next.


----------



## k12m (Dec 2, 2016)

yeah ok, it's seriously pointless trying to discuss with you people who decided to have an opinion and don't even make an effort to read what i write or let me understand what they're trying to say.
I can assure you I am not trying to lie or shuffle elements, my only fear is that I could have been not too clear, but that's why I asked several times to have direct questions to issues you couldn't find "logical".
I wasn't trying to convince anybody, but I can't accept being seen as somebody who lies or tries to "trick" you all


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2016)

k12m said:


> yeah ok, it's seriously pointless trying to discuss with you people who decided to have an opinion and don't even make an effort to read what i write or let me understand what they're trying to say.
> I can assure you I am not trying to lie or shuffle elements, my only fear is that I could have been not too clear, but that's why I asked several times to have direct questions to issues you couldn't find "logical".
> I wasn't trying to convince anybody, but I can't accept being seen as somebody who lies or tries to "trick" you all


there are two stories. i want to believe yours. but i also want to believe the ultras' statement. i find i cannot believe both. which of them should i ignore?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> there are two stories. i want to believe yours. but i also want to believe the ultras' statement. i find i cannot believe both. which of them should i ignore?



Both!


----------



## Lucy Fur (Dec 2, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Both!


2 wrongs will not make a right.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2016)

Yer man's gone all brave sir robin.

Brave sir k12m ran away
Bravely ran away away
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled

He's beat a very brave retreat


----------



## k12m (Dec 3, 2016)

Fuck off prick. I was at a game.
I got a life and i am off to the pub.
Byeeee


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 3, 2016)

Was alcohol involved?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2016)

k12m said:


> I got a life and i am off to the pub


On 1) I don't believe you, on 2) you shouldn't drink alone


----------



## henrick (Dec 3, 2016)

editor said:


> I can't think of anything more depressing in British football than the Celtic/Rangers sectarianism.



  perhaps you should look a bit closer at this.the sectarianism at football is reflective of the general attitude throughout scottish society. but is always easier to put all the blame on working class football supporters who sing stupid songs ( Perhaps you could  give me recent examples of Celtic supporters sectarianism?)  however  its not football supporters  who are denying people jobs or housing because of their ' Irish' surnames. same old story everywhere its the boss and their funny handshake brigade that are the real bigots not my mate at work who is also a zombie hun and we don't talk to each other during a Celtic sevco hun monkeys game but by the next day we have calmed down and just take the piss. In scotland the first question you used to be asked at a job interview was what school you went to. that was the deciding factor on the chances of your employment. In recent years we have seen an improvement . this is down to the rise of ( despite it all) a catholic middle class.  as an anarchist/anti capitalist i find this a bit confusing but i know there are many people on  these boards who will explain why this has happened. sorry for the mistakes in grammar and punctuation but if you just watched your team coming back from 2-0 down to win 4-3 then you will understand that much drink has been taken. thank you for your time and bandwidth. 
   And finally, i'm just an ordinary typical Celtic supporter, but for all you  clapton ultras who tried to get a good celtic man sent to jail- your story is ever changing but  i wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. you wankers are are on your own now. Hail Hail


----------



## k12m (Dec 4, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> On 1) I don't believe you, on 2) you shouldn't drink alone


Fuck off again!
Believe whoever you want poor little human


----------



## k12m (Dec 4, 2016)

henrick said:


> perhaps you should look a bit closer at this.the sectarianism at football is reflective of the general attitude throughout scottish society. but is always easier to put all the blame on working class football supporters who sing stupid songs ( Perhaps you could  give me recent examples of Celtic supporters sectarianism?)  however  its not football supporters  who are denying people jobs or housing because of their ' Irish' surnames. same old story everywhere its the boss and their funny handshake brigade that are the real bigots not my mate at work who is also a zombie hun and we don't talk to each other during a Celtic sevco hun monkeys game but by the next day we have calmed down and just take the piss. In scotland the first question you used to be asked at a job interview was what school you went to. that was the deciding factor on the chances of your employment. In recent years we have seen an improvement . this is down to the rise of ( despite it all) a catholic middle class.  as an anarchist/anti capitalist i find this a bit confusing but i know there are many people on  these boards who will explain why this has happened. sorry for the mistakes in grammar and punctuation but if you just watched your team coming back from 2-0 down to win 4-3 then you will understand that much drink has been taken. thank you for your time and bandwidth.
> And finally, i'm just an ordinary typical Celtic supporter, but for all you  clapton ultras who tried to get a good celtic man sent to jail- your story is ever changing but  i wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. you wankers are are on your own now. Hail Hail


I agreed with 99% of your post (I even worked on sectarianism in Scotland for my master degree project and lived in Glasgow for a semester).
Shame about the bullshit in the last part.


----------



## k12m (Dec 4, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Was alcohol involved?


It was, do you want to tell my mum?


----------



## LiamO (Dec 4, 2016)

k12m said:


> I agreed with 99% of your post _*(I even worked on sectarianism in Scotland for my master degree project and lived in Glasgow for a semester).*_




Saved for posterity.
I have no idea of who or what you are but, quite frankly, you come across as a right, 'white guilt-ridden' , middle-class, 'lefty' wanker.

Or maybe that's just a description of your politics.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2016)

k12m said:


> Fuck off again!
> Believe whoever you want poor little human


Yeh. you make it impossible to believe you.


----------



## k12m (Dec 4, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Saved for posterity.
> I have no idea of who or what you are but, quite frankly, you come across as a right, 'white guilt-ridden' , middle-class, 'lefty' wanker.
> 
> Or maybe that's just a description of your politics.


Just to say i was into the subject and tried ti understand more wven though I was Italian and didn't live it directly on my skin.
But just in case fuck off, easier!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 4, 2016)

k12m said:


> It was, do you want to tell my mum?



Nah, I'm not a grass...


----------



## k12m (Dec 4, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Nah, I'm not a grass...


Nice one this one actually


----------



## brogdale (Dec 4, 2016)

k12m said:


> Just to say i was into the subject and tried ti understand more *wven though I was Italian* and didn't live it directly on my skin.
> But just in case fuck off, easier!


You voting?


----------



## k12m (Dec 4, 2016)

brogdale said:


> You voting?


Nope.
Disgusted by the government and the opposition. 
You got fascists and mafia on both sides if yes and no, so they can keep playing their games while I am living here.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 4, 2016)

k12m said:


> Nope.
> Disgusted by the government and the opposition.
> You got fascists and mafia on both sides if yes and no, so they can keep playing their games while I am living here.


Sound; that's how I felt (emotionally) about EUref.


----------



## k12m (Dec 4, 2016)

And also to be honest, because of my disgust, I haven't even put any effort in trying to understand more of what the referendum was all about.
It was a really difficult subject involving a lot of different issues that I think shouldn't be voted with a referendum.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 4, 2016)

k12m said:


> And also to be honest, because of my disgust, I haven't even put any effort in trying to understand more of what the referendum was all about.
> It was a really difficult subject involving a lot of different issues that I think shouldn't be voted with a referendum.


Dragging you OT...best take this--------> here


----------



## k12m (Dec 4, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Dragging you OT...best take this--------> here


No way i am going to get into that.
I managed to escape the subject until now, not starting the last day possibile 
(It's anyway useless for me as I should have voted already with postal vote)


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 4, 2016)

One thing is certain, the actions of the Cultras on 28th March 12015 will never be forgotten of forgiven.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 4, 2016)

OR Forgiven*


----------



## cantsin (Dec 4, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> One thing is certain, the actions of the Cultras on 28th March 12015 will never be forgotten of forgiven.



All recorded in your report from the day / on file ?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 4, 2016)

cantsin said:


> All recorded in your report from the day / on file ?


Oh there is plenty more n file.


----------



## Lucy Fur (Dec 4, 2016)

Good that the football is important.


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 4, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> One thing is certain, the actions of the Cultras on 28th March 12015 will never be forgotten of forgiven.


 
Probably one of the more significant events of the 21st Century. Future historians (if there are any) will no doubt concur.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> One thing is certain, the actions of the Cultras on 28th March 12015 will never be forgotten of forgiven.


A day of infamy


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 5, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Probably one of the more significant events of the 21st Century. Future historians (if there are any) will no doubt concur.



This is a better idea than it sounds. We could lay a yearly wreath at the grave of middle class Antifascism followed by a spitting ceremony where we have guys of Golsmiths types made up followed by pouring craft ales on each other and wearing armbands.


----------



## Cid (Dec 5, 2016)

Citizen66 said:


> Anyway, thanks for this reunion thread. That's my Saturday entertainment sorted.



More than a year on and it did that for me on Saturday...


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 5, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> A day of infamy



Infamy, Infamy. They've all got it infamy.


----------



## jimmer (Dec 5, 2016)

Clapton Ultras call boycott of home games over ticket price rise and searches -


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 5, 2016)

Presumably the RMT will be welcome at that game then.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 5, 2016)

jimmer said:


> Clapton Ultras call boycott of home games over ticket price rise and searches -



Our shed is precious blah blah, not allowed here not allowed there, only people with certain privileges allowed on.
And then the above! That is just another one of the numerous reasons that lot are just a bunch of privileged self important wannabes.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 5, 2016)

What they gonna do this week? attack people who do want to go into the game. Haha. you could not make this stuff up.


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 5, 2016)

It's almost worth turning up at a Clapton game and defying all the CU 'rules' just to antagonise the Scaffolda Brigada. 

Almost but not quite.


----------



## JimW (Dec 5, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> It's almost worth turning up at a Clapton game and defying all the CU 'rules' just to antagonise the Scaffolda Brigada.
> 
> Almost but not quite.


Definitely the perfect night to take the home end.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 5, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> It's almost worth turning up at a Clapton game and defying all the CU 'rules' just to antagonise the Scaffolda Brigada.
> 
> Almost but not quite.



Better not. They might hit you with one of their vicious blog posts.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 5, 2016)

All turn up with sarnies and a thermos and have a good chat while the game's on?


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 5, 2016)

two sheds said:


> All turn up with sarnies and a thermos and have a good chat while the game's on?



Don't forget the selfies!


----------



## Thimble Queen (Dec 5, 2016)

two sheds said:


> All turn up with sarnies and a thermos and have a good chat while the game's on?



You spelt prosecco wrong


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2016)

Thimble Queen said:


> You spelt prosecco wrong


And cava


----------



## two sheds (Dec 5, 2016)

nothing wrong with cava


----------



## cantsin (Dec 5, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> What they gonna do this week? attack people who do want to go into the game. Haha. you could not make this stuff up.



what are talking about now piggy ? You think a boycott vs price rises constitutes 'couldn't make this up ' territory' ? You rolling in it on your Det Inspector wage or whatever, this all a bit laughable to you ?

With all that dough, you should give the Emirates Library a try, surrounded by nice quiet Islington types instead of all those noisey Ultras etc.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 5, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> It's almost worth turning up at a Clapton game and defying all the CU 'rules' just to antagonise the Scaffolda Brigada.
> 
> Almost but not quite.



you never know, they might have set up some kind of picket, you could have right laugh crossing that, then hook up with Piggy, top day out


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 5, 2016)

cantsin said:


> what are talking about now piggy ? You think a boycott vs price rises constitutes 'couldn't make this up ' territory' ? You rolling in it on your Det Inspector wage or whatever, this all a bit laughable to you ?


Cultras "The gift that keeps on giving"!


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 5, 2016)

cantsin said:


> you never know, they might have set up some kind of picket, you could have right laugh crossing that, then hook up with Piggy, top day out


I Wonder what the armbands will have on them?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 5, 2016)

Prossecco is the new cava.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 5, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> I Wonder what the armbands will have on them?



Real
Middleclass 
Touts


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 5, 2016)

Really 
Miffed 
Toffs


----------



## k12m (Dec 5, 2016)

I wonder how many of you pricks have ever been to a clapton game. Mouthy wankers


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 5, 2016)

k12m said:


> I wonder how many of you pricks have ever been to a clapton game. Mouthy wankers


Temper temper! as usual cultras don't like being put on the spot.


----------



## Athos (Dec 5, 2016)

k12m said:


> I wonder how many of you pricks have ever been to a clapton game. Mouthy wankers


Tough guy. Although the 'ultras' would probably say al dente.


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 5, 2016)

I have a naturally loud accent and actually like to talk to people, am I allowed in the CU cordon?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 5, 2016)

SpecialBranch said:


> I have a naturally loud accent and actually like to talk to people, am I allowed in the CU cordon?


If you are thinking of going to the picket I think it best you ask k12m for permission where you are allowed to stand. Bare in mind if you do not have enough privileges you may not be allowed to attend at all.


----------



## SpecialBranch (Dec 5, 2016)

I'm excitable too, is that a negative?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 5, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> Really
> Miffed
> Toffs



Much better!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 5, 2016)

k12m said:


> I wonder how many of you pricks have ever been to a clapton game. Mouthy wankers



Come and ave ago if yer spittin ard enough


----------



## k12m (Dec 5, 2016)

Bla bla bla
I explained what that post was about and even admitted it wasn't worded really well, now I am the one to take the piss off 
Your arrogance is appealing.
SpecialBranch not sure if you're taking the piss too, but of course you're welcome.
Take a look at the post about the games boycott to know more about what happened in case you haven't had a chance yet.


----------



## k12m (Dec 5, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Come and ave ago if yer spittin ard enough


Not my style at all.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 5, 2016)

k12m said:


> Not my style at all.


Yeh, I suppose your right, leave it to the girls to do the spitting again.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 5, 2016)

I guess in your world of privileges they get first spit anyway.


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 6, 2016)

Charity Boxing match. Can't we just solve all this with a charity boxing match?


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 6, 2016)

k12m said:


> I wonder how many of you pricks have ever been to a clapton game. Mouthy wankers



I've been to several but that was waaaaaay before they were adopted by poncey pricks playing at being football fans.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 6, 2016)

k12m said:


> Your arrogance is appealing.


Now there's something you don't often hear


----------



## k12m (Dec 6, 2016)

Interesting, new and challenging arguments.


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 6, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> I've been to several but that was waaaaaay before they were adopted by poncey pricks playing at being football fans.



How do you 'play' at being a football fan?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 6, 2016)

By moving into and adopting a lower league team in an area you don't even live and then start making rules for anyone else who dares to turn up.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 6, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> I've been to several but that was waaaaaay before they were adopted by poncey pricks playing at being football fans.



of course you did bro

_"I was there in 1968.
I was there at the first Can show in Cologne.
I'm losing my edge.
I'm losing my edge to the kids whose footsteps I hear when they get on the decks.
I'm losing my edge to the Internet seekers who can tell me every member of every good group from 1962 to 1978.
I'm losing my edge."_


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 6, 2016)

cantsin said:


> of course you did bro
> 
> _"I was there in 1968.
> I was there at the first Can show in Cologne.
> ...


WTF?


----------



## alfajobrob (Dec 6, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> How do you 'play' at being a football fan?



They should do a football fan simulator or at least bring out a fifa17 ultras version.

That's the one were you can drink, boast, spit, wave flags and generally get extra points for being a dick...


----------



## Dom Traynor (Dec 7, 2016)

alfajobrob said:


> They should do a football fan simulator or at least bring out a fifa17 ultras version.
> 
> That's the one were you can drink, boast, spit, wave flags and generally get extra points for being a dick...



Imagine Hooliganz Storm Over Europe with a Dulwich/Clapton skin. Wave tinsel in a Belgian's face, drink a rosè, dance to Massive Attack


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 7, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> By moving into and adopting a lower league team in an area you don't even live and then start making rules for anyone else who dares to turn up.



So , to get this straight (and for the record I'm not a fan). Clapton Ultras are wankers for trying to decide how people should enjoy the beautiful/tedious game, but anyone who doesn't enjoy it in your way isn't 'real'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2016)

Dom Traynor said:


> Imagine Hooliganz Storm
> Over Europe with a Dulwich/Clapton skin
> Wave tinsel in a Belgian's face
> drink a rosè
> dance to Massive Attack


Its the time of year
Now that Spring is in the air
When those two wet gits with their girly curly hair
Make another song for moronic holidays
That nauseate-ate-ate
In a million different ways
From the shores of Spain
To the coast of Southern France
No matter where you hide
You just can't escape this dance

Hold a chicken in the air
Stick a deckchair up your nose
Buy a jumbo jet
And then bury all your clothes
Paint your left knee green
Then extract your wisdom teeth
Form a string quartet
And pretend your name is Keith


----------



## Lucy Fur (Dec 7, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> How do you 'play' at being a football fan?


By having your teams main thread in the politics forum, and never mentioning the football it would seem. 
DHFC 3 - 1 Staines last night. Cracking game, all welcome.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 7, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> So , to get this straight (and for the record I'm not a fan). Clapton Ultras are wankers for trying to decide how people should enjoy the beautiful/tedious game, but anyone who doesn't enjoy it in your way isn't 'real'?



Could you point to where I said that?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 7, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> (and for the record I'm not a fan).



You're a fan of blundering in and arguing on their behalf.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 7, 2016)

Lucy Fur said:


> By having your teams main thread in the politics forum, and never mentioning the football it would seem.
> DHFC 3 - 1 Staines last night. Cracking game, all welcome.



gotta love being lectured by JCL non league fans on how you're supposed to be a pwopa fan , ie : " you must talk about your fave soccer team in the internetz forum"


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 7, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You're a fan of blundering in and arguing on their behalf.



Yeah, sorry mate.  I should have asked your advice on where to stand on the issue.


----------



## JimW (Dec 7, 2016)

Lucy Fur said:


> ...
> DHFC 3 - 1 Staines last night. Cracking game, all welcome.



Impressive but not in the class of our 5-0 tonking of Evesham in a hastily arranged friendly because we generously decided to let.Sutton progress past round one of the FA cup. New boy Shamir Mullings from Chelmsford opened his account too


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 7, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Yeah, sorry mate.  I should have asked your advice on where to stand on the issue.



Stand where you like, even the scaffold. 

Now, are you going to point to the other things you claim I said?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 7, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> How do you 'play' at being a football fan?



Usually, you support Man U.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 7, 2016)

Of course I know what Red Sky  neutral position is. Some fellow AFN activists are involved in Clapton Ultras. So his claims to 'not be a fan' are irrelevant really. He won't mention this of course because that'd mean AFN would be required to have a position on the attack on Cowdenbeath and subsequent grassing. 
Do AFN have a position on it btw?


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 7, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Of course I know what Red Sky  neutral position is. Some fellow AFN activists are involved in Clapton Ultras. So his claims to 'not be a fan' are irrelevant really. He won't mention this of course because that'd mean AFN would be required to have a position on the attack on Cowdenbeath and subsequent grassing.
> Do AFN have a position on it btw?



I think you misunderstand - it's football I'm not a fan of. Not particularly against it just not a fan. 

The AFN if it is anything is a loose network of anti fascist groups and doesn't as far as I'm aware 'take positions' on things like this.


----------



## juice_terry (Dec 7, 2016)

So the AFN has no position on anti fascists grassing on other anti fascists ? 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 7, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> So the AFN has no position on anti fascists grassing on other anti fascists ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk



Tell us who the grass is then.


----------



## juice_terry (Dec 7, 2016)

<nope>

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 7, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> <nope>
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk



Is he anything to do with the AFN?


----------



## juice_terry (Dec 7, 2016)

He and the crowd he was with declare themselves as anti fascists.. doesn't need to be a member of the Anti fascists network for the AFN to have a position on grassing on other anti fascists 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 7, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> He and the crowd he was with declare themselves as anti fascists.. doesn't need to be a member of the Anti fascists network for the AFN to have a position on grassing on other anti fascists
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk



Before anyone gets too carried away , I'm not in a position to get the AFN to do anything. But personally (as I've said before) I wouldn't want to work with or associate with anyone who went running to the cops if thesituation was anything like what's been described ob here.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 7, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> <nope>
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk



Do you know if he's  Dulwich, as people claim ?


----------



## juice_terry (Dec 7, 2016)

No idea but he was with the rent a mob of spitters and bottle throwers all day long from start to finish.. couldn't give a shit if he supports Dulwich Hamlet or Manchester Utd he was with the ultras and associates all day and grassed when given a slap he deserved 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 7, 2016)

So the cultras finally accept who they are, not interested in the football they do not support any football team. they are just egotistical, self centred, browbeaten attention seekers. After 2 years of continual abuse towards Vince McBean, not frequenting the Clapton clubhouse, refusing to get involved in any club activities they are amazed that he has taken action to ensure that his club stays pitchside flag free,  flare free and alcohol free. In their fictional deluded world they actually think they are running Clapton. If I was Vince I would have moved this rabble on long ago.


----------



## k12m (Dec 7, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> So the cultras finally accept who they are, not interested in the football they do not support any football team. they are just egotistical, self centred, browbeaten attention seekers. After 2 years of continual abuse towards Vince McBean, not frequenting the Clapton clubhouse, refusing to get involved in any club activities they are amazed that he has taken action to ensure that his club stays pitchside flag free,  flare free and alcohol free. In their fictional deluded world they actually think they are running Clapton. If I was Vince I would have moved this rabble on long ago.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 7, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> So the cultras finally accept who they are, not interested in the football they do not support any football team. they are just egotistical, self centred, browbeaten attention seekers. After 2 years of continual abuse towards Vince McBean, not frequenting the Clapton clubhouse, refusing to get involved in any club activities they are amazed that he has taken action to ensure that his club stays pitchside flag free,  flare free and alcohol free. In their fictional deluded world they actually think they are running Clapton. If I was Vince I would have moved this rabble on long ago.



but back in the real world, you're not moving anyone anywhere, just another interweb fantasist


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 7, 2016)

k12m said:


>





cantsin said:


> but back in the real world, you're not moving anyone anywhere, just another interweb fantasist


So why do u have a banner against Vince, an abusive song against Vince and have utter contempt for him. Ignore him for 2 years and then expect everything to be rosey. This is East london not your fluffy uni debating rooms or the home counties.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 7, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> So why do u have a banner against Vince, an abusive song against Vince and have utter contempt for him. Ignore him for 2 years and then expect everything to be rosey. This is East london not your fluffy uni debating rooms or the home counties.



get your firm together, go and 'move' them yourselves on behalf of big Vince, he'll love you


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 7, 2016)

cantsin said:


> get your firm together, go and 'move' them yourselves on behalf of big Vince, he'll love you[/QUOTEKeep up ! you can't remove something that has already removed itself


----------



## MrSpikey (Dec 8, 2016)

k12m said:


> Anything else missing?



A statement of regret that antifascists were attacked at the ground, and another stating police informants are not welcomed by CU would be good, although massively overdue.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 8, 2016)

Don't call people grasses by name here please.


----------



## k12m (Dec 8, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Don't call people grasses by name here please.


Exactly.


----------



## k12m (Dec 8, 2016)

juice_terry said:


> No idea but he was with the rent a mob of spitters and bottle throwers all day long from start to finish.. couldn't give a shit if he supports Dulwich Hamlet or Manchester Utd he was with the ultras and associates all day and grassed when given a slap he deserved
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk



So basically if somebody makes racist comments inside Dulwich Hamlet ground, i can assume all Dulwich fans are racist fascists.
Interesting also to see you are mentioning again the "slap" he seemed to have grassed for. Remind us where it happened please, and how CU were involved in that.
Great also you mentioned his name here but CU are the grasses 
Fucking love you guys. Pure comedy


----------



## k12m (Dec 8, 2016)

MrSpikey said:


> A statement of regret that antifascists were attacked at the ground, and another stating police informants are not welcomed by CU would be good, although massively overdue.


Ok i have to be honest: i agree with the latter maybe about police informants, but i'd rather have had a chat with the Cowdenbeath people rather than going public about it.
For what I know there were people who tried to have a discussion with them, but they were so pissed off they didn't want to have a chat about what happened and attacked us online straight away (even people who weren't at the game).
I am honestly sorry it went like that, I'd be always up for a chat with them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2016)

k12m said:


> Ok i have to be honest


better late than never, eh


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 8, 2016)

k12m said:


> So basically if somebody makes racist comments inside Dulwich Hamlet ground, i can assume all Dulwich fans are racist fascists.
> Interesting also to see you are mentioning again the "slap" he seemed to have grassed for. Remind us where it happened please, and how CU were involved in that.
> Great also you mentioned his name here but CU are the grasses
> Fucking love you guys. Pure comedy



It's called Champion Hill, not Dulwich Hamlet ground. 

Love how you think everyone else is pure comedy but you can't quite see how you muggy lot are taking the piss out of yourselves with your self important announcements about who can stand where at Clapton games.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 8, 2016)

k12m said:


> Ok i have to be honest: i agree with the latter maybe about police informants, but i'd rather have had a chat with the Cowdenbeath people rather than going public about it.
> For what I know there were people who tried to have a discussion with them, but they were so pissed off they didn't want to have a chat about what happened and attacked us online straight away (even people who weren't at the game).
> I am honestly sorry it went like that, I'd be always up for a chat with them.


You disingenuous little scumbag. You appear from nowhere and spend 2 years slagging off McBean from afar, he puts the entry up by a quid and all of a sudden you want personal representation with him. The cultras have spent nearly 2 years telling lie upon lie about what took place with the attack upon the Celtic fans and then you come on this forum saying you want to talk with them. Go do one you slimeball.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 8, 2016)

k12m said:


> So basically if somebody makes racist comments inside Dulwich Hamlet ground, i can assume all Dulwich fans are racist fascists.
> Interesting also to see you are mentioning again the "slap" he seemed to have grassed for. Remind us where it happened please, and how CU were involved in that.
> Great also you mentioned his name here but CU are the grasses
> Fucking love you guys. Pure comedy


Maybe you were not in the cultra inner circle at the time but your cultra friends called an "action" (whatever that means) upon SH, and an assortment of rag, tag and bobtail turned up at the cultras request.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 8, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> The AFN if it is anything is a loose network of anti fascist groups and doesn't as far as I'm aware 'take positions' on things like this.



It's organised enough to get a stall at the anarchist bookfair though, how did that happen given the bookfair can be prickly about some groups having a stall? I saw the Brighton flag had pride of place so assume you were within farting distance from it.


----------



## k12m (Dec 8, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> You disingenuous little scumbag. You appear from nowhere and spend 2 years slagging off McBean from afar, he puts the entry up by a quid and all of a sudden you want personal representation with him. The cultras have spent nearly 2 years telling lie upon lie about what took place with the attack upon the Celtic fans and then you come on this forum saying you want to talk with them. Go do one you slimeball.


Lies? CU never said anything else than the statement.
I am the one here talking with people.
And btw you're lying also about what happens between CU and McBean/the club. You just made up a story which is not true at all.



The Flying Pig said:


> Maybe you were not in the cultra inner circle at the time but your cultra friends called an "action" (whatever that means) upon SH, and an assortment of rag, tag and bobtail turned up at the cultras request.


I was in CU and I was at the game.
But the fact you comment like this shows you haven't read any of my posts as I said this many times.
Not that you have to, but it proves how you want to communicate: tell your story and close your ears. Easy!


----------



## k12m (Dec 8, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> It's called Champion Hill, not Dulwich Hamlet ground.
> 
> Love how you think everyone else is pure comedy but you can't quite see how you muggy lot are taking the piss out of yourselves with your self important announcements about who can stand where at Clapton games.



Good arguments here mate. Can I ask how these are related to what I wrote in my post?
Sorry for not calling the ground by name, couldn't imagine that would be so offensive


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 8, 2016)

k12m said:


> Lies? CU never said anything else than the statement.
> I am the one here talking with people.
> And btw you're lying also about what happens between CU and McBean/the club. You just made up a story which is not true at all.
> 
> ...


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 8, 2016)

k12m, by your replies you just make a complete fool of yourself and avoid answering any questions that put you and the cultras on the spot.
you can waffle as much as you like but the hard truth is the cultras veneer is slipping and what is underneath is very unpleasant.


----------



## k12m (Dec 8, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> k12m, by your replies you just make a complete fool of yourself and avoid answering any questions that put you and the cultras on the spot.
> you can waffle as much as you like but the hard truth is the cultras veneer is slipping and what is underneath is very unpleasant.


You keep throwing these vague replies and insults.
That's the way many have been discussing the issues.
I am still waiting for somebody to comment on what i wrote in this post: Clapton Ultras Attacked By Far Right
Who are the real grasses posting names and videos?
When and where did the incident which caused the "grassing" happen?
How were CU involved?

It's like talking to a wall, but I love it because it shows you don't want to answer these simple questions!


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 8, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It's organised enough to get a stall at the anarchist bookfair though, how did that happen given the bookfair can be prickly about some groups having a stall? I saw the Brighton flag had pride of place so assume you were within farting distance from it.



Getting a stall at the anarchist bookfair is a little bit different from having a party line innit? 

Why didn't you walk up and have a chat with the AFN in person if you've got all these questions?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 9, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Getting a stall at the anarchist bookfair is a little bit different from having a party line innit?
> 
> Why didn't you walk up and have a chat with the AFN in person if you've got all these questions?



Would we have got different answers than what we're getting here?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 9, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Getting a stall at the anarchist bookfair is a little bit different from having a party line innit?



It's interesting that AFN were able to put out a statement outing the singer from Crown Court as a fascist but aren't able to put out statements regarding CU attacking visiting anti fascists


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 9, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Would we have got different answers than what we're getting here?



Who knows? You didn't try did you?


----------



## Red Sky (Dec 9, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It's interesting that AFN were able to put out a statement outing the singer from Crown Court as a fascist but aren't able to put out statements regarding CU attacking visiting anti fascists



The AFN didn't , London Anti-Fascists, a group in the AFN did.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 9, 2016)

Red Sky said:


> Who knows? You didn't try did you?



Wasted opportunity.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 10, 2016)

k12m said:


> You keep throwing these vague replies and insults.
> That's the way many have been discussing the issues.
> I am still waiting for somebody to comment on what i wrote in this post: Clapton Ultras Attacked By Far Right
> Who are the real grasses posting names and videos?
> ...



You well know that the violent physical  attacks on foreign anti fascists took place inside the football ground, instigated by the clapton ultras and their cronies. If you and your cultras wanted so much to make amends why did none of u donate towards the court fine or attend the benefit gig?


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 10, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> You well know that the violent physical  attacks on foreign anti fascists took place inside the football ground, instigated by the clapton ultras and their cronies. If you and your cultras wanted so much to make amends why did none of u donate towards the court fine or attend the benefit gig?



Foreign as in Scottish??


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 10, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> Foreign as in Scottish??


Unfortunately that appears to be the cultras view of them.


----------



## MrSpikey (Dec 11, 2016)

k12m said:


> Ok i have to be honest: i agree with the latter maybe about police informants



Sorry, k12m, but I don't know many anti-fascists who would be happy working with anyone who had a stance that "maybe" police informants are not welcome.




k12m said:


> but i'd rather have had a chat with the Cowdenbeath people rather than going public about it.



Maybe the ideal time for a chat was before it all kicked off at the ground?



k12m said:


> For what I know there were people who tried to have a discussion with them, but they were so pissed off they didn't want to have a chat about what happened and attacked us online straight away (even people who weren't at the game).



I'm not sure moaning about online attacks is justifiable, given the prior actual physical attacks and the frankly risible statement issued on the matter. 



k12m said:


> I am honestly sorry it went like that, I'd be always up for a chat with them.



If there was actual regret from CU about what transpired at the ground, then stating that publicly would have been a good thing to do. But that didn't happen, so I'm not that surprised they (and others) aren't interested in "a chat".


----------



## k12m (Dec 11, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> You well know that the violent physical  attacks on foreign anti fascists took place inside the football ground, instigated by the clapton ultras and their cronies. If you and your cultras wanted so much to make amends why did none of u donate towards the court fine or attend the benefit gig?


You're still not answering my questions it seems.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 11, 2016)

k12m said:


> You're still not answering my questions it seems.


I know playing silly games on the internet is the cultras way, but if you really do want to try and regain any respect you need to be honest and straight forward. The choice is yours.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 11, 2016)

So i try again ......


The Flying Pig said:


> You well know that the violent physical  attacks on foreign anti fascists took place inside the football ground, instigated by the clapton ultras and their cronies. If you and your cultras wanted so much to make amends why did none of u donate towards the court fine or attend the benefit gig?


----------



## k12m (Dec 11, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> So i try again ......


Imagine what a lovely atmosphere it was at the gig. People insulting us on the internet for months for something we weren't involved in.
Me and some mates walking in the pub wouldn't even be safe.
Can I also ask again why you link the incident inside the ground to what happened somewhere else causing the "grassing"?


----------



## k12m (Dec 11, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> I know playing silly games on the internet is the cultras way, but if you really do want to try and regain any respect you need to be honest and straight forward. The choice is yours.


Ah is it our way?
After all the shit spread on the internet by sh mates on fb and in here. I am the only one responding, the group decided to be silent. We privatwly got in touch with some people  directly involved with the incident and they didn't even reply.
Now you're saying we play silly games on the internet? Amazing.
Still waiting for the answers to my questions. Let's be clear and put all facts and truths on the table, that would help many people understand finally who plays games.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 11, 2016)

k12m said:


> Imagine what a lovely atmosphere it was at the gig. People insulting us on the internet for months for something we weren't involved in.
> Me and some mates walking in the pub wouldn't even be safe.
> Can I also ask again why you link the incident inside the ground to what happened somewhere else causing the "grassing"?





k12m said:


> Ah is it our way?
> After all the shit spread on the internet by sh mates on fb and in here. I am the only one responding, the group decided to be silent. We privatwly got in touch with some people  directly involved with the incident and they didn't even reply.
> Now you're saying we play silly games on the internet? Amazing.
> Still waiting for the answers to my questions. Let's be clear and put all facts and truths on the table, that would help many people understand finally who plays games.


After putting out smoke screens, out and out lies and putting out an article on the cultra facebook accusing Celtic fans of being wife beaters eventually your chums realised they could not defend the indefensible and have since hidden under the nearest rock in the hope it would all blow over. Unfortunately the wind has changed direction and more of their misdemeanors are becoming common knowledge and their circle of friends is shrinking.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 11, 2016)

k12m said:


> Can I also ask again why you link the incident inside the ground to what happened somewhere else causing the "grassing"?



Because the clown involved in the latter was also pre-eminent in the former.

Because without the former, the latter would not have happened.

Plain enough for you?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 11, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Because the clown involved in the latter was also pre-eminent in the former.
> 
> Because without the former, the latter would not have happened.
> 
> Plain enough for you?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 11, 2016)

LiamO said:


> Because the clown involved in the latter was also pre-eminent in the former.
> 
> Because without the former, the latter would not have happened.
> 
> Plain enough for you?


Another fine example of smoke screen tactics and dis information from a fine upstanding cultra> you must fit in with that bunch nicely.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 11, 2016)

Not sure the above comes across as I meant but I am obviously holding k12m up as a shining example of cultraism


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 11, 2016)

k12m said:


> Ah is it our way?
> After all the shit spread on the internet by sh mates on fb and in here.


Fuck me he's popular then


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 13, 2016)

Price Hikes and Searches – Clapton Football Club

The official club reply to the nonsense be choked out by the cultras!


----------



## fiannanahalba (Dec 13, 2016)

Sensible stuff from this club thats been sadly burdened by these Ultra freaks.


----------



## k12m (Dec 15, 2016)

ahahahaha
You're all hilarious.
Even defending the lies of VMcB, making up stuff CU wrote on the statement and other shit.
Funny enough you haven't discussed CU statements on what VMcB has done, but just getting his words as true.
I've been here enough, no point in discussing with you all.
Have a good time and no, I am not escaping, just giving up because talking to you is as useless as doing it with a chair.
Have fun in your fictional world!


----------



## k12m (Dec 15, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> After putting out smoke screens, out and out lies and putting out an article on the cultra facebook accusing Celtic fans of being wife beaters eventually your chums realised they could not defend the indefensible and have since hidden under the nearest rock in the hope it would all blow over. Unfortunately the wind has changed direction and more of their misdemeanors are becoming common knowledge and their circle of friends is shrinking.


Only one thing, just in case other read your shit: we only make clear SH wasn't welcome amongst us. He could even be a Clapton supporter for what I am concerned. Nothing to do with his political views or team he supports.
Ask any other person in CU and they'll agree with this. Nobody is hiding, we're just silent because there's nothing else to add.


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 15, 2016)

k12m said:


> ahahahaha
> You're all hilarious.
> Even defending the lies of VMcB, making up stuff CU wrote on the statement and other shit.
> Funny enough you haven't discussed CU statements on what VMcB has done, but just getting his words as true.
> ...



Our fictional world? 

is that like the one that you inhabit where you think a group of johnny come lately fuckwits can tell others where they can stand and how they can behave at football?


----------



## editor (Dec 15, 2016)

A friend of mine who goes to Clapton a fair bit has invited me along to a game, but I'm fearful I might make a poor impression if I'm too chatty or take a pic. I wouldn't want to stand in the scaffold though as it all sounds a bit too serious for my tastes.

I'm not sure I'd want to be identified as the bloke who set up urban75 either, or are my fears misguided?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

editor said:


> A friend of mine who goes to Clapton a fair bit has invited me along to a game, but I'm fearful I might make a poor impression if I'm too chatty or take a pic. I wouldn't want to stand in the scaffold though as it all sounds a bit too serious for my tastes.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd want to be identified as the bloke who set up urban75 either, or are my fears misguided?


i doubt it


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 15, 2016)

editor said:


> A friend of mine who goes to Clapton a fair bit has invited me along to a game, but I'm fearful I might make a poor impression if I'm too chatty or take a pic. I wouldn't want to stand in the scaffold though as it all sounds a bit too serious for my tastes.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd want to be identified as the bloke who set up urban75 either, or are my fears misguided?



Best bring some hankies for when they start gobbing over you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Best bring some hankies for when they start gobbing over you.


a brolly generally more effective


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 15, 2016)

cagoul. Riot shield for the tinnies coming yer way


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 15, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> a brolly generally more effective



And handy for self defense, in a sort of dandyish manner.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> And handy for self defense, in a sort of dandyish manner.


yeh. tell you what, try defending yourself with a few pocket hankies and let us know how you get on


----------



## two sheds (Dec 15, 2016)




----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

two sheds said:


> View attachment 97188


just how i picture ts tbh


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 15, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> just how i picture ts tbh



Nah, my facial hair is much more impressive.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Nah, my facial hair is much more impressive.


and your height?


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 15, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> and your height?



5'11 with no turban, 6'2 with turban.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> 5'11 with no turban, 6'2 with turban.


weight?


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 15, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> weight?



more than it should be.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 15, 2016)

inside leg?


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 15, 2016)

two sheds said:


> inside leg?



hairy


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

Sort code?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 15, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> You well know that the violent physical  attacks on foreign anti fascists took place inside the football ground, instigated by the clapton ultras and their cronies. If you and your cultras wanted so much to make amends why did none of u donate towards the court fine or attend the benefit gig?



Scots /Celts are "foreign"  to you sarge ?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 15, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Our fictional world?
> 
> is that like the one that you inhabit where you think a group of johnny come lately fuckwits can tell others where they can stand and how they can behave at football?



they're hardly 'jonny come latelys' at Clapton, if there was 30 + before they came ?

or are you comparing to your long and illustrious grass roots luv affair with Dulwich, stretching all the way back to the EARLY 2010's ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

cantsin said:


> they're hardly 'jonny come latelys' at Clapton, if there was 30 + before they came ?
> 
> or are you comparing to your long and illustrious grass roots luv affair with Dulwich, stretching all the way back to the mid 2010's ?


 we're in the mid-2010s


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

Stretching back to last year?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Yes and I've pulled old school Dulwich up on it too.


so as cantsin says, you're new school.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Stretching back to last year?


as long ago as that?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 15, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> we're in the mid-2010s



apols, "early 2010's"

( tho suspect that may be stretching it re : the big man)


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 15, 2016)

cantsin said:


> they're hardly 'jonny come latelys' at Clapton, if there was 30 + before they came ?
> 
> or are you comparing to your long and illustrious grass roots luv affair with Dulwich, stretching all the way back to the mid 2010's ?



Yeah Tony! You are soooo middle class! And no way did you go dulwich before 2010!!

Morons!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> Yeah Tony! You are soooo middle class! And no way did you go dulwich before 2010!!
> 
> Morons!


i don't doubt he went to dulwich. 

what i doubt is if he went to champions hill.


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 15, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't doubt he went to dulwich.
> 
> what i doubt is if he went to champions hill.



Trust me pickers! Tony didnt even go to public school.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> Trust me


nothing after these two words is going to be true.


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 15, 2016)

Trust me. Tony is one hard bastard.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 15, 2016)

And has hairs on his legs to prove it.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 15, 2016)

B.I.G said:


> Trust me. Tony is one hard bastard.



no one's questioning that Tony's one of the top, top bods over there, just whether he's been going long enough to be sticking it to the Ultras on  a JCL basis.

(Answers on a postcard plse)


----------



## two sheds (Dec 15, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And has hairs on his legs to prove it.



and doesn't wax his inside leg


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 15, 2016)

k12m said:


> Only one thing, just in case other read your shit: we only make clear SH wasn't welcome amongst us. He could even be a Clapton supporter for what I am concerned. Nothing to do with his political views or team he supports.
> Ask any other person in CU and they'll agree with this. Nobody is hiding, we're just silent because there's nothing else to add.


So why was SH attacked by your concocted mob?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Dec 15, 2016)

cantsin said:


> Scots /Celts are "foreign"  to you sarge ?


No way would I call our comrades foreign but that is I conclude how the cultras saw them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

The Flying Pig said:


> So why was SH attacked by your concocted mob?


Not to mention the Cowdenbeath celts


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 15, 2016)

cantsin said:


> no one's questioning that Tony's one of the top, top bods over there, just whether he's been going long enough to be sticking it to the Ultras on  a JCL basis.
> 
> (Answers on a postcard plse)



Tony could beat up a lot of people. He's hardly a top top Dulwich bod tho. He likes prometheus for god's sake.

tonysingh Its very ironic that you aren't considered tough tony by people on the internet. I think its cos you got tubby. I wouldnt mess with you!


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 15, 2016)

cantsin said:


> no one's questioning that Tony's one of the top, top bods over there, just whether he's been going long enough to be sticking it to the Ultras on  a JCL basis.
> 
> (Answers on a postcard plse)



Tony has been going to Dulwich for a long long time. Not that it matters unless you judging on a JCL scale


----------



## two sheds (Dec 15, 2016)

#dontmesswithtony


----------



## Wilf (Dec 15, 2016)

This thread needs a press conference where people throw tables at each other.


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 16, 2016)

cantsin said:


> they're hardly 'jonny come latelys' at Clapton, if there was 30 + before they came ?
> 
> or are you comparing to your long and illustrious grass roots luv affair with Dulwich, stretching all the way back to the EARLY 2010's ?



Well they are kind of Johnny come Latelys if there were 30 or so at Clapton before the Ultras started their little wankfest over there and boosted their crowds whilst paying next to fuck all attention to the football and much more on political bullshit posturing. and yes, i'm well aware we have our own achingly similar supporters at Champion Hill. Oh how i wish quite a few of them would just fuck off and die. Mind you I've wished death on some fellow DHFC fans ever since I've started going which was in 1992 but nice try on making out I'm a neaveau (I'm much more of an old school dinosaur.



B.I.G said:


> Yeah Tony! You are soooo middle class! And no way did you go dulwich before 2010!!
> 
> Morons!



Middle class? I'm classless.....




B.I.G said:


> Trust me pickers! Tony didnt even go to public school.



Public school? No. 

Approved school? Yes. 



B.I.G said:


> Tony could beat up a lot of people. He's hardly a top top Dulwich bod tho. He likes prometheus for god's sake.
> 
> tonysingh Its very ironic that you aren't considered tough tony by people on the internet. I think its cos you got tubby. I wouldnt mess with you!



Prometheus is a fucking class film. We don't need top top bods though, we've got Mishi! 

also, I'm not fucking tubby, you cheeky cunt!


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 16, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And has hairs on his legs to prove it.



Would you like to stroke said hairy legs?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> I'm a neaveau


a neaveau, eh?







i've got your number, sonny jim


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 16, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> a neaveau, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oit! Stop selectively quoting me!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Oit! Stop selectively quoting me!


i could say the same.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 16, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> Middle class? I'm classless.....



Or, to put it more colloquially, you've got no class.


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 16, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> Or, to put it more colloquially, you've got no class.



That's one of the nicest things anyone's ever said about me. Thank you!


----------



## editor (Jan 4, 2017)

Just putting this here.


----------



## Sparkle Motion (Jan 15, 2017)

Boycotting the club they support because of a £1 price increase.

It's not exactly Premier League extortion.


----------



## juice_terry (Jan 24, 2017)

Anyone seen the disturbing video  that the clapped out ultras have posted on Facebook regarding their boycott of matches ?? Will try and link it on here 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## juice_terry (Jan 24, 2017)

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## juice_terry (Jan 24, 2017)

https://video-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...26c186da04cc3df1ca29c523d3345&oe=58881221#_=_

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## The Flying Pig (Jan 25, 2017)

Once again proving themselves to be just a bunch of utter c@@ts. How low can they go? I dread to think what their next scam is.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> https://video-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/16340631_1435800726453098_3995209055827132416_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjU0NywicmxhIjo1NjIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoic3ZlX3NkIn0=&oh=2b226c186da04cc3df1ca29c523d3345&oe=58881221#_=_


All I get is 





> URL signature expired


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 25, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk




Appalling


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2017)

They were probably just a bunch of local lads interested in checking out their local team.


----------



## YouSir (Jan 26, 2017)

I've only ever skimmed this thread, because it seems ridiculous for the most part, but fucksake...


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 29, 2017)

Maybe he was fash?


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2017)

Sparkle Motion said:


> Boycotting the club they support because of a £1 price increase.
> 
> It's not exactly Premier League extortion.


Or, that,you know a club might actually want to improve its coffers


----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 29, 2017)

BigMoaner said:


> Or, that,you know a club might actually want to improve its coffers


No he was not fash, just an average Saturday afternoon footballer pissed of by the clapton clowns continual abuse and being gobbed at by them. clupton clowns really don't get football, there are many things you can do but the one thing you can't is gob at someone. the clowns forget they are not in their uni debating halls but in the real world.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> No he was not fash, just an average Saturday afternoon footballer pissed of by the clapton clowns continual abuse and being gobbed at by them. clupton clowns really don't get football, there are many things you can do but the one thing you can't is gob at someone. the clowns forget they are not in their uni debating halls but in the real world.


tbh spitting at someone frowned upon in uni debating halls too.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 29, 2017)

Never went to uni so not sure of the etiquette. Maybe it is just something the cluptras see as their privilege to do or maybe they will do their usual and deny it ever happened or had nothing to do with them. Who knows and most probably who cares?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 29, 2017)




----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 29, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


>


Clapton fans queueing outside Hertfordshire police station to give statements about the knife incident at Sawbridgeworth F.c> last week.


----------



## JTG (Mar 29, 2017)

tbh ever time I see something Clapton related these days they come across as barking fucking mad


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2017)

some of them could be queuing to sign on, the joy on their faces


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 29, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> some of them could be queuing to sign on, the joy on their faces
> 
> View attachment 103143


But at least it's a patriarchy free zone


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> But at least it's a patriarchy free zone


A thin silver lining


----------



## cantsin (Mar 29, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> No he was not fash, just an average Saturday afternoon footballer pissed of by the clapton clowns continual abuse and being gobbed at by them. clupton clowns really don't get football, there are many things you can do but the one thing you can't is gob at someone. the clowns forget they are not in their uni debating halls but in the real world.



running off the pitch and returning with  a knife, because someone (allegedly ) gobs at you, is ' the real world' up your ends eh big man ?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 29, 2017)

cantsin said:


> running off the pitch and returning with  a knife, because someone (allegedly ) gobs at you, is ' the real world' up your ends eh big man ?



They have form for gobbing on people so I doubt it's untrue. Coincidentally I was recently in the company of someone who's been gobbed on by them previously.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 29, 2017)

cantsin said:


> running off the pitch and returning with  a knife, because someone (allegedly ) gobs at you, is ' the real world' up your ends eh big man ?


unfortunately yes it is how things are outside the cuddly fluffy safe zone world. but then again it does come as a bit of a shock if you don't understand how it is.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 29, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> unfortunately yes it is how things are outside the cuddly fluffy safe zone world. but then again it does come as a bit of a shock if you don't understand how it is.



lolz, roadsman like you has seen it all, no doubt


----------



## cantsin (Mar 29, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They have form for gobbing on people so I doubt it's untrue. *Coincidentally I was recently in the company of someone who's been gobbed on by them previously*.



he / she pulled a chiv out in response, obviously ?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 29, 2017)

cantsin said:


> lolz, roadsman like you has seen it all, no doubt


Was that you I saw at the back of the queue above?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 29, 2017)

cantsin said:


> he / she pulled a chiv out in response, obviously ?



The video of what happened has been widely viewed and no knives were involved.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 29, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> some of them could be queuing to sign on, the joy on their faces
> 
> View attachment 103143


More like thinking about the story they have been told to say and trying to learn it word for word. Would not want to get their statement wrong.


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## Magnus McGinty (Mar 29, 2017)

There's grassing to cops. Then there's grassing to cops about antifascists. Then there's grassing to cops about antifascists after starting the trouble with them. 
Unforgivable really.


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## Dom Traynor (Mar 29, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> Never went to uni so not sure of the etiquette. Maybe it is just something the cluptras see as their privilege to do or maybe they will do their usual and deny it ever happened or had nothing to do with them. Who knows and most probably who cares?


It didn't go to uni either but I would never assume gobbing was acceptable in a debating chamber tbh.


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## YouSir (Mar 30, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> It didn't go to uni either but I would never assume gobbing was acceptable in a debating chamber tbh.



Not so sure, I can think of exceptions to be made in the Commons.


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## cantsin (Mar 30, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The video of what happened has been widely viewed and no knives were involved.



obviously didn't happen on Flying Fantasists manor, or it would have been blades out no questions asked, that's how it goes down round there


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## Sparkle Motion (Mar 30, 2017)

The more I hear, the less I like. Not a club atmosphere that appeals much. We had a couple of beerchuckers at Maidstone a couple of years back, but promotion put paid to that.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 30, 2017)

Sparkle Motion said:


> The more I hear, the less I like. Not a club atmosphere that appeals much. We had a couple of beerchuckers at Maidstone a couple of years back, but promotion put paid to that.


i looked at that, thinking for a moment i was on a brexit thread


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## The Flying Pig (Apr 17, 2017)

*IlfordFC*‏ @Ilfordfcfoxes Apr 15
So a "Clapton" supporter punches our harmless, loveable supporter Mark in the face & breaks his nose. Disgusting. This will be reported


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## editor (Apr 17, 2017)

There must be some kind of backstory to this?


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## The Flying Pig (Apr 17, 2017)

Yes Clapton ultras are a bunch of c@@ts


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## editor (Jun 1, 2017)

I see that a Clapton fan - possibly the same one who went out of his way to cover up a Hamlet sticker in the venue - have flyered Brixton's Hootananny with leaflets promoting their proposed fan ownership bid. 

If so minded, you can contribute to their gofundme page here:  Click here to support Clapton Supporters Action Fund organized by Martin McShea They've raised 8.4k in 20 months. 

More on the website: Save Clapton FC


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 1, 2017)

Is it privately owned? If so I've no idea how a court can force regime change.


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## MrSpikey (Jun 2, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Is it privately owned? If so I've no idea how a court can force regime change.


There are allegations of shenanigans in relation to the ownership.


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 3, 2017)

MrSpikey said:


> There are allegations of shenanigans in relation to the ownership.


The clapton chancers are at it again. Just role into a working class area from god knows where. State the club is yours, then get others to believe it. you can fool some of the people some of the time but.......


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## cantsin (Jun 3, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> The clapton chancers are at it again. Just role into a working class area from god knows where. State the club is yours, then get others to believe it. you can fool some of the people some of the time but.......



You're a  hopeless fraud pal, honestly, feck off


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 3, 2017)

cantsin said:


> You're a  hopeless fraud pal, honestly, feck off


I think you are getting me confused with the clapton clown fraudsters


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 3, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> I think you are getting me confused with the clapton clown fraudsters



You are intertwined with them in my thoughts, certainly. Why is that?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> You are intertwined with them in my thoughts, certainly. Why is that?



Because he predominantly posts on these threads. I suspect it's due to supporting those attacked by them that drives it though. Perhaps he knows them?


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## MrSpikey (Jun 4, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> The clapton chancers are at it again. Just role into a working class area from god knows where. State the club is yours, then get others to believe it. you can fool some of the people some of the time but.......


Another page on that site gives the impression that those involved have more long term involvement:

"In 2014 the three remaining life members of Clapton FC mandated the supporters group, the Friends of Clapton FC, to hold a meeting to propose the re-formation of Clapton Football Club"

No idea of the validity of any of it, though.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2017)

Their complaints  could all be kosher but middle class lefties moving into a working class space to 'support' a low league club, and then them suddenly having a campaign against said club that aims to take out the villain manager and replace him with their right on selves is just a bit  and blatant to hold credibility, imo.


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## MrSpikey (Jun 4, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Their complaints  could all be kosher but middle class lefties moving into a working class space to 'support' a low league club, and then them suddenly having a campaign against said club that aims to take out the villain manager and replace him with their right on selves is just a bit  and blatant to hold credibility, imo.


I completely agree, if that is the case.

The "three remaining life members" bit, and the reminiscence about when the crowds were 15 strong made me think this site might be run by the Clapton supporters who supported them long before the influx started. I honestly don't know either way.


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 4, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Because he predominantly posts on these threads. I suspect it's due to supporting those attacked by them that drives it though. Perhaps he knows them?



I think most of us support them.


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 4, 2017)

Perhaps "he" was there and can see right through the clapton ultras charade. Just scum of the earth fraudsters. No real non league football fans let alone left leaning fans have done the unsavoury things those planks have done.


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## cantsin (Jun 4, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Their complaints * could* all be kosher



ie : you haven't actually looked into the substance behind their "complaints" ?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 5, 2017)

cantsin said:


> ie : you haven't actually looked into the substance behind their "complaints" ?



They have previous for bossing people around at the club, attacking those they dislike, spinning facts, using the courts against enemies etc; are you seeing a pattern here?


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 5, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They have previous for bossing people around at the club, attacking those they dislike, spinning facts, using the courts against enemies etc; are you seeing a pattern here?


You can add breaking an Ilford fans nose, fake twitter accounts to attack opposition managers, spitting at opposition players and verbal abuse to oppositon managers.


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## cantsin (Jun 5, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They have previous for bossing people around at the club, attacking those they dislike, spinning facts, using the courts against enemies etc; are you seeing a pattern here?



call me old fashioned, but if you're actually coming out in support of a director / owner against a clubs fans, and their campaign to save a previously community owned ground from the owners dodgy dealing,  best to have some actual idea of the substance of their case vs club, maybe ?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 5, 2017)

cantsin said:


> call me old fashioned, but if you're actually coming out in support of a director / owner against a clubs fans, and their campaign to save a previously community owned ground from the owners dodgy dealing,  best to have some actual idea of the substance of their case vs club, maybe ?



They think they should own the club? Are any of them actually FROM Forest Gate? Come on then, let's hear their case.


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## cantsin (Jun 5, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They think they should own the club? Are any of them actually FROM Forest Gate? Come on then, let's hear their case.



nah, fans should never own a club, wealthy landowners and businessmen should, they know best, and always have the local community's best interests at heart.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 5, 2017)

You'd certainly never hear any abuse of an opposing manager at a proper working class club.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 5, 2017)

cantsin said:


> nah, fans should never own a club, wealthy landowners and businessmen should, they know best, and always have the local community's best interests at heart.



How do Clapton have the community's interest at heart when they behave strangely to anyone not following their edicts (scabs!  ) or attack or spit on people who stand where they've been told not to?


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 5, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> You'd certainly never hear any abuse of an opposing manager at a proper working class club.


Yes I agree fully with your comment but these clowns have gone a stage further, threats of physical violence and in one case faking another team managers twitter account and then abusing another club from this fake account. This is not what your typical working class or any other class fan does. It is the work of scumbags.


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 5, 2017)

cantsin said:


> call me old fashioned, but if you're actually coming out in support of a director / owner against a clubs fans, and their campaign to save a previously community owned ground from the owners dodgy dealing,  best to have some actual idea of the substance of their case vs club, maybe ?


I am 100% in support of fan owned clubs and have friends in and a high regard for FCUM. I also have friends at AFC Wimbledon and also commend them.
Clupton clowns are totally different, I would not trust them to run a tombola stall, without fixing the outcome. They have conned some good people in their campaign with lies, half truths and a personal vendetta against the current club owner. 
Just posh bully boys & girls.


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 5, 2017)

cantsin said:


> You're a  hopeless fraud pal, honestly, feck off


With baby threats like that you would fit in well with the Clupton clowns


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## cantsin (Jun 5, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> With baby threats like that you would fit in well with the Clupton clowns



where's there a threat there noidy-man ?

(  A > There isn't, never would be )


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 5, 2017)

cantsin said:


> where's there a threat there noidy-man ?
> 
> (  A > There isn't, never would be )


Not really sure what your reply is all about but I am sure you are happy with it and well done for swerving off course of why clapton clowns are total dick heads. If you have anything valid to add please fire away otherwise...


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