# Survivors



## 8den (Nov 21, 2008)

Surprised there isn't a thread about this. Survivors is on BBC on Sunday. Most of the world's population is wiped out by virus, with only a handful of survivors left. 

The original series was broadcast in the 80s and was the brainchild of Terry "Wot made the Daleks and Blake 7" Nation. It was odd, with a mix of searching for children, meets rebuilding society, with episodes having shoot outs followed by lengthy conversations about crop rotation, kind of Mad Max meets the Archers. 

This revamp does include Freema "I am incapable of expressing any human emotion credibly" Agyeman, but none the less I am looking forward to it.


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## matrix_22 (Nov 21, 2008)

Oh yes - I read about this - looking forward to watching it.


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## elevendayempire (Nov 21, 2008)

It's got Paterson  Joseph in it, too.


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## cybertect (Nov 21, 2008)

I re-watched the three original series on DVD a year or so ago. It stood up quite well compared with my memories of it in the 1970s (it was first broadcast between 1975 and '77).

I'm still not sure how the new one will fare, but I'll certainly be watching on Sunday.


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## greenman (Nov 21, 2008)

My take on this from my blog back in March -
http://greenmansoccasional.blogspot.com/2008/03/survivors-to-return-to-tv.html
I shall watch with interest - have the first series of the 70's version on DVD.
Original has a pretty reactionary subtext TBH, especially towards the end, but the class bias was typical of TV drama of the time.  The self sufficiency themes had an appreciative audience in the early Green/Ecology Party groups and one of the actors was a green activist.
In another blog piece I asked the question, (with reference to Survivors) of what would happen to all the nukes and radioactive materials if loads of us suddenly kicked the bucket -
http://greenmansoccasional.blogspot.com/2007/02/nuclear-panglossian-hubris-and-survival_11.html

Looking forward to watching this - you wait for ages for interesting drama and then we have this *and *_The Devil's Whore!_


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## Mr Moose (Nov 21, 2008)

matrix_22 said:


> Oh yes - I read about this - looking forward to watching it.



Yep me too. There's nothing greater in drama than a cosy apocalypse.


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## Kaka Tim (Nov 22, 2008)

looks a bit a shit. Hope Im wrong

A virus that only leaves blandly good looking people alive. 

 Freema Agyeman


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## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 22, 2008)

greenman said:


> My take on this from my blog back in March -
> <snip>
> In another blog piece I asked the question



Is it too much to ask that you state your interesting opinions here? Y'know this discussion forum that you have just posted on?


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## Dhimmi (Nov 22, 2008)

8den said:


> *...kind of Mad Max meets the Archers. *



Magical!


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 22, 2008)

I *so* hope Julie Graham doesn't over-act like she did in "Bonekickers".


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## SpookyFrank (Nov 22, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> It's got Paterson  Joseph in it, too.



*crosses fingers*

He's easily good enough to outweigh Freema Agyeman's shiteness so that's OK.


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## marty21 (Nov 23, 2008)

watching at the mo, with a bit of a sniffle


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Paterson Joseph, Freema Agyemang and Rose Tyler's dad.



BBC awesomeness in a Doctor Who sense.


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## Looby (Nov 23, 2008)

Is it repeated?


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## El Jefe (Nov 23, 2008)

I've given up already. Had high hopes for it, the original was really bleak and engaging. 

But it's numerous BBC regulars acting badly, painful amounts of exposition, 2-d characters and fuck all script.

Waste of time


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## QueenOfGoths (Nov 23, 2008)

The trailers did nothing for me ... and if Freema is in it I'm glad I haven't bothered !


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

FFS, I thought Freema was going to kark it then


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Oh, maybe she has  Excellent.


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## marty21 (Nov 23, 2008)

it's grim, and my cold is getting worse


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Manchester's a bit like that tbh. I can see where that posh lad is sitting from my bedroom window


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 23, 2008)

Just been watching the Wire on dvd and am having a quick break. This looks dire in comparison.


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## marty21 (Nov 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Manchester's a bit like that tbh. I can see where that posh lad is sitting from my bedroom window



what, grim and cold?


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

marty21 said:


> what, grim and cold?



This week it has been 

OH NOEZ, PETE TYLER IS DEAD.


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## marty21 (Nov 23, 2008)

my cold is getting worse as this goes on


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

This is the end for you Marty  Killed by Sunday night drama.


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## marty21 (Nov 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> This is the end for you Marty  Killed by Sunday night drama.



no more midsomer murders


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

I fucking love how the Manchester bloke has just driven his fast car through central Manchester, then on the road towards Salford, then through the centre of the city, and then where he lived again.

Excellent


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## spitfire (Nov 23, 2008)

My girlfriend chose to become mysteriously ill and go to bed during the last hour and a half. I am currently searching for the nearest Audi R8 and a bottle of vodka.


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

HAHAHAH. I live round the corner from there  Spinningfields is always that empty


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## Nine Bob Note (Nov 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> I fucking love how the Manchester bloke has just driven his fast car through central Manchester, then on the road towards Salford, then through the centre of the city, and then where he lived again.



Them's the dangers of drink-driving for you


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Oh please let Martha Jones stay dead


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Them's the dangers of drink-driving for you



Drink driving can seriously harm the nature of reality


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## Nine Bob Note (Nov 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Oh please let Martha Jones stay dead



I fear you're raising your expectations a little highly there. I doubt she can act dead.


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

"God, thank you (for all of these dead children)"


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

That camera angle is far too tight, the empty background should be a part of this


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Max Beesley is Sylar


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## marty21 (Nov 23, 2008)

what was the point of him taking all that money, he can just nick what he wants, that'll just weigh him down


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## janeb (Nov 23, 2008)

I know I'm probably over thinking, but not that sure that everyone would die pretty much over what looks like the same night?


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Yeah, that's a bit of a WTF'r.

Plus the chronic disease outbreak from corpses would have everyone else done for in short order.


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

PATERSON JOSEPH TO THE RESCUE! 

(I have a filthy man crush)


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## spitfire (Nov 23, 2008)

FINALLY, someone who knows what he's doing.

Land Rover. Check
Army surplus store. Check


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Disease knowledge. Check.

Cup of tea. Check.


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Boooo hiss. Max Beesley. Boooo. BOOOOOOOOOO.


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## spitfire (Nov 23, 2008)

Lack of weaponry. Uncheck.
Failure to search for huge amounts of narcotics. Uncheck.


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## spitfire (Nov 23, 2008)

BOO. Max Beesley. Ha ha ha.

(Why are they in a volvo?)


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

He needs no weapons. He has a Defender. Those things are better than a platoon of Ghurkas.


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## Nine Bob Note (Nov 23, 2008)

janeb said:


> I know I'm probably over thinking, but not that sure that everyone would die pretty much over what looks like the same night?



It's a subtle warning against electing another woman PM.

Or perhaps not


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Oh no. Beesley vs Joseph.


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Don't leave the engine running


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

In the grim post plague future, there are only Man City fans and street football


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## Orang Utan (Nov 23, 2008)

Verdict: shit


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## spitfire (Nov 23, 2008)

I don't know much about football but isn't that the same thing?


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## spitfire (Nov 23, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> Verdict: shit



True.

I like it though.


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## Balbi (Nov 23, 2008)

Aye. Very rubbish. I'll watch next week though 

And YAY, Freema is still dead


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## Orang Utan (Nov 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Aye. Very rubbish. I'll watch next week though



You mean Tuesday


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## teuchter (Nov 23, 2008)

They should have started the news with a flu outbreak announcement for a laugh.


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## spitfire (Nov 23, 2008)

teuchter said:


> They should have started the news with a flu outbreak announcement for a laugh.


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## El Jefe (Nov 23, 2008)

an expense waste of time


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## Dead Cat Bounce (Nov 23, 2008)

Nothing special but OK though. Paterson Joseph for the Doctor


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## mentalchik (Nov 23, 2008)

Meh..............sums it up really !


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## Iguana (Nov 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Oh please let Martha Jones stay dead



I've just checked IMDB and she is only listed as being in one episode, so there will be no miracle recovery.


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## cesare (Nov 23, 2008)

Was quite entertaining, I wasn't watching it particularly critically. Might remember to watch it on Tuesday, perhaps.


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## Fedayn (Nov 23, 2008)

Quite liked it, some rather gratuitous shots of the highrise Hilton in Manchester.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 23, 2008)

I don't know, you lot, you always go on about how great the BBC is and then say how shit each new programme they make is...


I quite enjoyed it, despite the hackneyed premise...


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## feerd (Nov 23, 2008)

aw come on -this is fucking ace for BBc1...
admittedly there were some  shit bits -
1.the script- even the very first line- he went white water rafting and fell out of his canoe- thats just wrong
2.and that musical football bit on the M6


but its  great- everyones dead except them and some scarey Netto customers with guns. what's not to like?


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## Jon-of-arc (Nov 23, 2008)

I missed this and I LOVE apocalyptic fiction (I even liked the film of the Stand...)

Should I bother on Iplayer?


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## Matt S (Nov 24, 2008)

My friend was in this. She played a doctor. Was she any good?

Matt


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## Jon-of-arc (Nov 24, 2008)

Matt S said:


> My friend was in this. She played a doctor. Was she any good?
> 
> Matt



she was brilliant.  is she single?  Will she have a quick look at my piles?


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## cesare (Nov 24, 2008)

Matt S said:


> My friend was in this. She played a doctor. Was she any good?
> 
> Matt



Button says she was a nurse not a doctor cos she's a girl.


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## teuchter (Nov 24, 2008)

feerd said:


> what's not to like?



The deaths of the victims were disappointing. At least some of them should have gone a bit mental and had to be gunned down in the street by helicopters.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 24, 2008)

cesare said:


> Button says she was a nurse not a doctor cos she's a girl.



Is the button currently holding an ice-pack against his clipped ear, and if not, why not?


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## cesare (Nov 24, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> Is the button currently holding an ice-pack against his clipped ear, and if not, why not?



Oppressed white male doesn't realise oppressed white male/ginger/bald status


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## the button (Nov 24, 2008)

I was simply pointing out that, in a patriarchal society, the likelihood was that a female member of the medical profession would be a nurse.

[/not ginger]


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## cesare (Nov 24, 2008)

the button said:


> I was simply pointing out that, in a patriarchal society, the likelihood was that a female member of the medical profession would be a nurse.
> 
> [/not ginger]



You are ginger and bald haha


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## cesare (Nov 24, 2008)

Gingers, balds, yorkshires - they is minority


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## _angel_ (Nov 24, 2008)

janeb said:


> I know I'm probably over thinking, but not that sure that everyone would die pretty much over what looks like the same night?



Heh! That was hilarious wasn't it.. especially the people dying sitting up all over the place!


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## _angel_ (Nov 24, 2008)

teuchter said:


> The deaths of the victims were disappointing. At least some of them should have gone a bit mental and had to be gunned down in the street by helicopters.



Yeah! Not all die compliantly waiting in a and e or in their cars!!


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## greenman (Nov 24, 2008)

Legit criticisms like those above accepted, I liked it - here is my review from my blog (where it also has links):



> Wow! The BBC had promised us a "re-imagining" of Terry Nation's original story from the 1970s first series of Survivors, and the result was certainly imaginative, and by turns grim, poetic, moving and engaging.
> 
> We were introduced to the main characters who included "re-imagined" up to date versions of those in the original story, plus new characters to give a more contemporary feel. The events of the virus period were told very quickly, as in the original - giving the viewer a feeling of the terrible speed at which the illness spreads and brings civilisation crashing to its knees within a couple of weeks.
> 
> ...


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## elevendayempire (Nov 24, 2008)

Do you find that whenever you watch Apocalypse Fiction you start planning what you'd do if it happened? I was sitting there going, "Well, in the event of Global Flupocalypse, you'd want to get clothing, supplies and guns - from an army base? They're all going to be dead, after all - in the short term, maybe pop down to B&Q and pick up a few generators, you probably wouldn't want to go into major conurbations for at least a couple of years till all the bodies have rotted away..."

And before you know it, you're planning your Compound.


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## Stoat Boy (Nov 24, 2008)

Big fan of all post-apocolyptic fiction myself and the original Survivors, even though I was a mere pup at the time, was a massive influence on me.

Thought it was okish last night. Perhaps a tad to BBC'ish for my immediate liking in terms of how it was constructed with regard to the casting but I accept thats more my problem than it. 

Interested to see what Green man wrote as I have a feeling that the conspiracy bit we got a glimpse of at the end might be a sort of Moon Raker plot with some Swampie loons deciding to rid the planet of its human virus. But we shall see.


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## Belushi (Nov 24, 2008)

It was so predictable. Well done Beeb on making the end of civilisation as dull as dishwasher.


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## Griff (Nov 24, 2008)

Thought it was OK to be honest, but yeah you do start wondering what you'd do in that situation.

Fast car, army surplus food/water and plenty of guns came to mind.


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## El Jefe (Nov 24, 2008)

fill a van with a load of chest freezers, set them up somewhere quick with a genny - you'll have access to almost infinite fuel from abandoned vehicles.

fill the freezers with perishables.

then get pissed.

and go round the houses of all your old dealers


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## mentalchik (Nov 24, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> and go round the houses of all your old dealers


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## danny la rouge (Nov 24, 2008)

The original series made a big impression on me.  I've got the first episode of the new one on tape, so I'm posting this with my eyes closed in case of spoilers.


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## Kaka Tim (Nov 24, 2008)

The subject matter made this scary and exciting for the most part - but the dilouge, exposition and much of the acting were fucknig bobbins and really let it down. 

Particualrly cringewiorthy was Abi's 'I know! Lets all stick together' speech near the end. 

Also annoying was just how middle class nearly all the charcters were - bar the young lad and prison bloke. And don't rate Patterson Joespeh at all. 

It seems that very few ugly, inarticualte, un-educated or working class people have survived. Or maybe they'll be the baddies?

The way the govt collpased was quite bollocks as well. They'd have been desperately mobilising the army and heading for the bunkers surely? 

Will contunie watching but fear more 'mediocre actors grapple with issues' storylines - a shame cos imagining a post apocolyptic society  should give writers tremendous scope for all sorts of ideas and drama.


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## elevendayempire (Nov 24, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> Also annoying was just how middle class nearly all the charcters were


Well, it _was _based on a 1970s show. Actually - although not being familiar with the original series - there were a couple of scenes which seemed to be directly lifted from the 70s one. They just seemed a bit out-of-place in a 2008 drama - that scene with the prison officer trying to keep Beesley locked up, and the scene with whatsherface talking to the camp co-ordinator: "Do you know what mushrooms are safe?" and all that sort of thing.

Am I right?


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## greenman (Nov 24, 2008)

The prison storyline was completely new I think, the conversation with the outward bound bloke, though, was from the original.  As far as class is concerned you want to watch the original!  Almost without exception all the "goodies" in the original are middle/upper class and all the "baddies" are working class/lumpen, including an ex "trade union leader" who is portrayed as wanting to set up his own new fascist/stalinist mini-state! the politics got worse towards the end of series 3 (Terry Nation was only involved with series one) with the notion of a "New Britain" being built (complete with adapted union flag) around the cult of one of the leading characters who has died.  TBH, although there was some good stuff about sustainability and resistance to authoritarianism in the original, many of the political undercurrents were more dubious and typical of the 1970s - in the same way that 70s political greenery in Britain can be traced forward to current lefty greens and anarchos_ on the one hand_ and to Prince Charles, the Goldsmiths and conservative/traditionalist/fascist environmentalism on the other. 

I think some of the class bias is simply carried forward due to Hodges wanting to retain as much as possible of the original story.  I share some of the nervousnous above about any heavy handed conspiracy theory additions that the last scene indicated might be added, for whatever reasons - either artistic, political or otherwise. 

Nevertheless, the fact I thought it was pretty good in comparison to some of the more critical approaches above might be because I am comparing it to the original rather than more current drama, and it is obviously technically better and more expensively produced than the 70s version.


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## ringo (Nov 24, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> I *so* hope Julie Graham doesn't over-act like she did in "Bonekickers".



Cheered when she died, grizzled when she recovered. 

I can't watch her without being constantly reminded that she's annoying and over acts.

Trouble with the remake is that now everything which came after makes this look dated. Still, love a good apocalypse so will stick with it if only to stop us watching The Wire every night.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 24, 2008)

cesare said:


> Oppressed white male doesn't realise oppressed white male/ginger/bald status



Ginger *and* bald?

How does that wor.......

Oh.


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## cesare (Nov 24, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ginger *and* bald?
> 
> How does that wor.......
> 
> Oh.


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## Pieface (Nov 24, 2008)

Where were the bleeding orifices and the panic and the terror and all the stuff that makes disaster tv good?  It was dull. I read a paper while watching 

Kind of found Max Beesley a bit sexytime though.  That was a surprise.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2008)

I thought it was ok. There is so much shit on TV, anything not totally shit gets my thumbs up. 
After you all went mad for dead set (which was a bit shit really) this wasn't any worse? I love themes like this, has anyone seen the quiet earth?


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## Pieface (Nov 24, 2008)

No.  What is Quiet Earth?

Dead Set at least had some fucking good death scenes and amusement.  Although Max Beesley killed that prison guard in a well nasty way.  I'm conflicted about Max Beesley


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## Kaka Tim (Nov 24, 2008)

PieEye said:


> No.  What is Quiet Earth?
> 
> Dead Set at least had some fucking good death scenes and amusement.  Although Max Beesley killed that prison guard in a well nasty way.  I'm conflicted about Max Beesley



Hes easily the most interesting charcter. The collaspe of society makes being  ruthless, amoral, violent but smart highly valudable charcter traits.


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## Pieface (Nov 24, 2008)

He's quite fit too.


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## golightly (Nov 24, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> has anyone seen the quiet earth?


 
Saw this quite a few years ago.  I recently acquired it to watch again because I don't remember much about it other than that it is a New Zealand film.  I do recall the scene at the end where the main protaganist sees a huge ringed planet in the sky as he stands alone on a beach.


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## Kaka Tim (Nov 24, 2008)

PieEye said:


> He's quite fit too.



Can see where your coming from on that. 
But I'd say he looks to well fed and healthy for prison fodder though. However He does make a far more convincing hard man than ross kemp.


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## Belushi (Nov 24, 2008)

golightly said:


> Saw this quite a few years ago.  I recently acquired it to watch again because I don't remember much about it other than that it is a New Zealand film.  I do recall the scene at the end where the main protaganist sees a huge ringed planet in the sky as he stands alone on a beach.



I remember seeing that years ago,  Bryan Brown stars iirc.


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## Pieface (Nov 24, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> Can see where your coming from on that.
> But I'd say he looks to well fed and healthy for prison fodder though. However He does make a far more convincing hard man than ross kemp.




I didn't really mean it like that  
You're right about Ross Kemp though, cuoldn't do menacing if you gave him a red and black stripey jumper.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2008)

PieEye said:


> No.  What is Quiet Earth?



New Zeland film.

Crazy experiment - everyone in the world dissapears. One guy left goes a bit nuts then meets a couple of other people. 

There is more to it but I don't want to spoil it for you. I'm sure I have seen the DVD for about £3 in the shops.


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## _angel_ (Nov 24, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Where were the bleeding orifices and the panic and the terror and all the stuff that makes disaster tv good?  It was dull. I read a paper while watching
> 
> Kind of found Max Beesley a bit sexytime though.  That was a surprise.



It was _very_ dull. No exciting death scenes at all... oh and yeah everyone keeling over at prayer in the mosque in one go...totally believable!


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## Mr Smin (Nov 24, 2008)

I once read the original Survivors described as The Post-Apocalypse Good Life.

Lots of last night's show was implausible. My main gripe was how people had died very suddenly en masse but there were no stopped cars at all on the motorway.


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## Stigmata (Nov 24, 2008)

Was that prison guard Alan Partridge's builder?


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## belboid (Nov 24, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> has anyone seen the quiet earth?


aye, damned good film

this is total nonsense, but quite enjoyable as such. including really sad bits like 'ooh, she's going over snake pass!'

i suspect the ludicrous everyone dying at once bit will be (badly) explained when we realise which evil government department is behind it all.  not that that will make it believable, just not completely and utterly stupid


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## Fedayn (Nov 24, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Was that prison guard Alan Partridge's builder?



Yes


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## dlx1 (Nov 24, 2008)

6 Episode how they going to drag this out 
 Prisoner who hid money in his Mum garden water but  fuck the police must be real stupid not to look there. 

It a bit like 28 weeks later but just as shit.


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## Maggot (Nov 24, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> Also annoying was just how middle class nearly all the charcters were - bar the young lad and prison bloke. And don't rate Patterson Joespeh at all.
> 
> It seems that very few ugly, inarticualte, un-educated or working class people have survived. Or maybe they'll be the baddies?


Inarticulate and ugly people make for bad tv.


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## belboid (Nov 24, 2008)

the woman with whom beesley got the first lift wasn't exactly articulate


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## Stigmata (Nov 24, 2008)

I only watched it because Freema Agyeman was in it ffs


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## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 24, 2008)

dlx1 said:


> It a bit like 28 weeks later but just as shit.



28 Days Later was not shit.

Oh, 28 Weeks later.  That was alright too.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 24, 2008)

Maggot said:


> Inarticulate and ugly people make for bad tv.



Yeah but it had Johnson in.


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## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

For fucks sake what utter, utter toilet. 

I've just tried to watch the first episode.

Now if you live on a boat on the canal you do not rely at all on the 'grid' you have a diesel engine, likely with an invertor, therefore you can create your own electricity as long as you don't run out of diesel, which is pretty damn near never going to happen. you'll also likely have a burner or oil heating, probably connected to central heating and hot water. you can go pretty much anywhere you like as long as the locks keep working, even then they'd be so many abandoned boats about you could just walk up/down flights of locks and carry on in a new boat.

You could tell that doctor was saying goodbye to her boat by the long lingering look she gave it as she left.

If you live on a boat you would NEVER leave it in an I have to be self sufficiant crisis.

Huge oversight. How many folk worked on this production? did none of them have a clue? 

Aaaaaaand where are all the dogs? 

I didn't watch the episode to the end and if they all chugged off into the sunset at the end I'll eat my words.


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## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

I like stuff like this too


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## boskysquelch (Nov 25, 2008)

lizzieloo said:


> Aaaaaaand where are all the dogs?
> 
> I didn't watch the episode to the end and if they all chugged off into the sunset at the end I'll eat my words.



in the cars suffocating...or busy at home eating their previous suppliers of vittles...

lots of birds about mind...did you hear'em?

and if you didn't watch the end..you missed the _obvious _twist.


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## scifisam (Nov 25, 2008)

Quick question: in the first episode, there's a scene with the woman of easy virtue and the man who's half-Kuwaiti (and she says 'Al? That doesn't sound like an Arab name.' Yeah, because nobody could think of a very common Arabic name that could be shortened to Al. No, it has to be short for Alain), and there's music playing. Is that the same music that was used in Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet, during the drugged-out scene, maybe?


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## boskysquelch (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> No, it has to be short for Alain



http://www.babynamesbase.com/meaning_Abdul-Alim.html 

a-LEEM 


er jus scooted thru the OST for r+j 1996...can't hear it. 

http://rapidshare.com/files/1010312...t__10th_Anniversary_Edition_-OST-2007-SAW.rar


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## belboid (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Is that the same music that was used in Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet, during the drugged-out scene, maybe?



dunno, but if one googles for 'survivors score' the first sponsored link is:


```
Bird Flu Protection
www.FightFluNow.com      Pandemic Flu Protection Scheme Flu Protection For Your Family
```

The R&J song was Lovefool by the Cardigans wasnt it?


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## Stigmata (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Quick question: in the first episode, there's a scene with the woman of easy virtue and the man who's half-Kuwaiti (and she says 'Al? That doesn't sound like an Arab name.' Yeah, because nobody could think of a very common Arabic name that could be shortened to Al. No, it has to be short for Alain), and there's music playing. Is that the same music that was used in Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet, during the drugged-out scene, maybe?



Yeah, it's Radiohead (band of choice for decadent billionaire playboys everywhere):


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## Pieface (Nov 25, 2008)

lizzieloo said:


> Now if you live on a boat on the canal you do not rely at all on the 'grid' you have a diesel engine, likely with an invertor, therefore you can create your own electricity as long as you don't run out of diesel, which is pretty damn near never going to happen. you'll also likely have a burner or oil heating, probably connected to central heating and hot water. you can go pretty much anywhere you like as long as the locks keep working, even then they'd be so many abandoned boats about you could just walk up/down flights of locks and carry on in a new boat.
> 
> You could tell that doctor was saying goodbye to her boat by the long lingering look she gave it as she left.
> 
> ...



 

Never get between Lizzie and a longboat


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Never get between Lizzie and a longboat


Viking eh?


----------



## Iguana (Nov 25, 2008)

lizzieloo said:


> You could tell that doctor was saying goodbye to her boat by the long lingering look she gave it as she left.
> 
> If you live on a boat you would NEVER leave it in an I have to be self sufficiant crisis.



I thought girl doctor lived with Martha Jones and the other girl and she was just sitting on a random boat to have a cry.


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Never get between Lizzie and a longboat



*Narrow*boat 










It's a medication thing 

((((Mr  Loo))))


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

Iguana said:


> I thought girl doctor lived with Martha Jones and the other girl and she was just sitting on a random boat to have a cry.



The doc lived on a narrowboat in the original series, according to a site I found googling last night


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

On a serious note i did like seeing at least one face i recognised appear and then die off, more of this unpredictable plot writing!


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2008)

Martha seems pretty dead to me


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 25, 2008)

I was well gutted.


----------



## elevendayempire (Nov 25, 2008)

belboid said:


> Martha seems pretty dead to me


----------



## Maggot (Nov 25, 2008)

Just reminding people that the next episode is on a 9 tonight.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 25, 2008)

thanks


----------



## MysteryGuest (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm doing my hair then.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

MysteryGuest said:


> I'm doing my hair then.



I bet that takes you hours


----------



## MysteryGuest (Nov 25, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> I bet that takes you hours





Me and my hair attendants, yes.


----------



## mentalchik (Nov 25, 2008)

MysteryGuest said:


> Me and my hair attendants, yes.



Oh i'd love to have hair attendants.........


*sighs*


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2008)

Why is there hardly anyone with a mancunian accent even though this is appearing to be totally shot in and around Salford?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

That Scottish woman is appalling


----------



## Iguana (Nov 25, 2008)

lizzieloo said:


> The doc lived on a narrowboat in the original series, according to a site I found googling last night



Well I guess that was a stupid bit of writing then.  It had a whole lot of stupid bits.  The sun going down and everyone being dead by morning especially.  None of the guys in the mosque appeared to be even remotely sick.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

What was that lass's secret?


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2008)

This is lame. I'm going to watch and criticise because I can.

Oh, no gore? FFS


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2008)

I'd have shot her. Max Beesley would have shot her.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

I would have shot her for crimes against acting


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

Yay! Compound fracture! That's more like it - I hope Johnson puts him out of his misery, with a quick click of the neck


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2008)

Chalk one up to rich asian dude.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2008)

Painfully drawn out sexytime on its way


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Painfully drawn out sexytime on its way


And our survey says.....


----------



## spitfire (Nov 25, 2008)

Why aren't they all armed to the teeth by now and driving around in tanks?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

spitfire said:


> Why aren't they all armed to the teeth by now and driving around in tanks?


Lousy mpg and unreliable, plus it'd be a bit too depressing to see the survivors killing each other in a battle royale tinged decent into barbarism.


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

Iguana said:


> ........................ It had a whole lot of stupid bits.  The sun going down and everyone being dead by morning especially...................


----------



## spitfire (Nov 25, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Lousy mpg and unreliable, plus it'd be a bit too depressing to see the survivors killing each other in a battle royale tinged decent into barbarism.



I feel a BBC3 spin off series in the making:

SURVIVORS: Armed to the Teeth and Driving Around in Tanks.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2008)

It's WELL SHIT.



Is Paterson Joseph about to go all Rambo?


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

spitfire said:


> I feel a BBC3 spin off series in the making:
> 
> SURVIVORS: Armed to the Teeth and Driving Around in Tanks.



Or SURVIVORS: Living in a cosy boat happily with hot showers and electricity to read all the books from the library you've moored near.



Not going to happen is it


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2008)

Max Beesley is now my favourite, as all of the other characters are so hate inducing as to cause me to try and hate them to death


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

spitfire said:


> I feel a BBC3 spin off series in the making:
> 
> SURVIVORS: Armed to the Teeth and Driving Around in Tanks.


Innit, day 1 of everyone dead a load of people grab JCBs and go play supermarket sweep at the local army barracks. The ensuing serries features combination of battle royale and home alone as the survivors fight it out over the last DU rounds ...


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

Too much bonding, not enough killing.


I want cannibals.


----------



## spitfire (Nov 25, 2008)

Why don't these people stop with the amateur dramatics and start making some decisions?

There now, look what's happened. Twat boy and his twat gang have turned up.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

Who's the evil fella? Looks familiar


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2008)

Beesley to the rescue!


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2008)

He looks a lot like David Morrissey.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

Oh, he's the rubbish cop in Shameless


----------



## scifisam (Nov 25, 2008)

I enjoyed tonight's episode, though of course it wasn't perfect. 

Unlike the rest of the cynical lot, I'd like to see more people showing their good side rather than nearly everyone going 'yeah! No Laws! Now I can be eeevil!' 



Bob_the_lost said:


> Innit, day 1 of everyone dead a load of people grab JCBs and go play supermarket sweep at the local army barracks. The ensuing serries features combination of battle royale and home alone as the survivors fight it out over the last DU rounds ...



Lots of people say that they'd do that in doomsday scenarios, but wouldn't an army barracks be just a _little_ hard to break into?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Unlike the rest of the cynical lot, I'd like to see more people showing their good side rather than nearly everyone going 'yeah! No Laws! Now I can be eeevil!'


I'd like to see that in real life, but not in post-apocalyptic entertainment. Good = boring.


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> I'd like to see that in real life, but not in post-apocalyptic entertainment. Good = boring.


----------



## spitfire (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Lots of people say that they'd do that in doomsday scenarios, but wouldn't an army barracks be just a _little_ hard to break into?



Not particularly, the only reason most people don't try it is that there are generally men with guns at the gates. And inside.

If (nearly) everybody's dead then all you need are some decent power tools.


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Lots of people say that they'd do that in doomsday scenarios, but wouldn't an army barracks be just a _little_ hard to break into?



It's the people guarding these places that make them so difficult to get into, it'd be fairly easy with unlimited time and resources, unless it was boobytrapped.

ETA:BAH!


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> I enjoyed tonight's episode, though of course it wasn't perfect.
> 
> Unlike the rest of the cynical lot, I'd like to see more people showing their good side rather than nearly everyone going 'yeah! No Laws! Now I can be eeevil!'
> 
> ...


No.

You're looking at a chain fence, possibly topped with razor wire or a more stout metal fence. You'll be in through either with a JCB and a runup at most. Firearms are stored in much tougher buildings, walls of thick, probably reinforced, concrete. JCB and a bit of time and determination will get you in there, and you start by plucking the weapons off the guards at the gate.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

lizzieloo said:


>


Well, look at your bookshelves and DVD shelves - how many of them are about people being nice to each other compared to people being 'orrible?


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> Well, look at your bookshelves and DVD shelves - how many of them are about people being nice to each other compared to people being 'orrible?



All of them  my life is fluffy

Disclaimer: This is a lie


----------



## scifisam (Nov 25, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> I'd like to see that in real life, but not in post-apocalyptic entertainment. Good = boring.



In your opinion. I like my post-apocalyptic fiction to be an attempt at showing what might actually happen, and I don't think everyone in the real world is as evil as they are in this show. Abby, Anya and the little kid (and maybe Al - seems that the letter a makes you good) are the only ones who haven't leapt on the apocalypse as an opportunity to fuck everyone else over. They could be shown trying to properly build a new world, and that would be pretty interesting, to me. 



spitfire said:


> Not particularly, the only reason most people don't try it is that there are generally men with guns at the gates. And inside.
> 
> If (nearly) everybody's dead then all you need are some decent power tools.



I would have thought security was a lot higher than that even without the people there. I'd also expect the government to have already taken away all the guns for themselves.


----------



## yardbird (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm so shallow.

I'm only watching it 'cos it's in HD on freesat


----------



## scifisam (Nov 25, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> Well, look at your bookshelves and DVD shelves - how many of them are about people being nice to each other compared to people being 'orrible?



The stories on my bookshelf generally have bits of both.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

Unlikely, that assumes that the army was still fully functional, not to mention the weapons each soldier would have been carrying when they are deployed to maintain order, and no, the security is all about the people.


----------



## spitfire (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> I would have thought security was a lot higher than that even without the people there. I'd also expect the government to have already taken away all the guns for themselves.



Not in the ones I've been in.


----------



## scifisam (Nov 25, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Unlikely, that assumes that the army was still fully functional, not to mention the weapons each soldier would have been carrying when they are deployed to maintain order, and no, the security is all about the people.



It wouldn't need the army to be fully functional - just enough remaining to move the weapons. 



spitfire said:


> Not in the ones I've been in.



That's weird. Not that I'm doubting you, but it doesn't make sense that it could ever be easy to break into a military compound. 

One other thing this show is missing is hordes of newly feral dogs. Of course, there don't seem to be many animals at all apart from the humans.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

More likely to destroy them in place if you had dems around.

Now, moving them, you'd need loaders, that's a lot of men. You'd need a site to move them to. You'd need to do all this while the soldiers are dropping dead around you as, let's face it, you don't burn your bridges until you know you need to. Then when people start dropping out on the drive what do you do, stop the convoy and move hte co drive into the seat? Fine, then you end up without a codriver, when they go down that's a 4 ton truck's worth of assault rifles spread over the side of the road...

Chuck in a disintegrating comand structure, civil unrest on a massive scale...

Even then you've still got every squaddie carrying a firearm, pretend they pulled in the TA for that you've got 140,000 squaddies, maybe 90,000 of them in the UK and many of them with two weapons a piece.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> In your opinion.


Doesn't need pointing out - who else would it belong to? 


scifisam said:


> I like my post-apocalyptic fiction to be an attempt at showing what might actually happen, and I don't think everyone in the real world is as evil as they are in this show. Abby, Anya and the little kid (and maybe Al - seems that the letter a makes you good) are the only ones who haven't leapt on the apocalypse as an opportunity to fuck everyone else over. They could be shown trying to properly build a new world, and that would be pretty interesting, to me.


If nothing went wrong in this, it would be deathly dull though. It's only the challenges to a utopia that make it interesting. 
My flatmate saw the original Survivors and tells me that a lot of it was very dull - loads of discussions about seed planting and crop rotation.


----------



## spitfire (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam;839109
That's weird. Not that I'm doubting you said:
			
		

> The average military base, unmanned, would probably be easier to get into than the average high street bank vault.
> 
> the base itself should just be a case of going through the front gates. The weapon store a bit harder. All you need are tools and time.
> 
> ...


----------



## feerd (Nov 25, 2008)

*Ep2*

excellent tension. Beesley is great and Paterson actually bothered to act a bit in this one. The Scottish woman is a bit stupid and annoying but hey...
Why do Ali and Naj have to keep having happy life affirming scenes chasing chickens and stuff though? That almost ruins it

next week looks good, more violence for all those who keep complaining about the lack of zombies and gore


----------



## scifisam (Nov 25, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> More likely to destroy them in place if you had dems around.
> 
> Now, moving them, you'd need loaders, that's a lot of men. You'd need a site to move them to. You'd need to do all this while the soldiers are dropping dead around you as, let's face it, you don't burn your bridges until you know you need to. Then when people start dropping out on the drive what do you do, stop the convoy and move hte co drive into the seat? Fine, then you end up without a codriver, when they go down that's a 4 ton truck's worth of assault rifles spread over the side of the road...
> 
> ...



I wasn't expecting each military base to have so much weaponry that it would take more than ten lorries to move the stuff! Would there really be that much? I also wasn't expecting the squaddies to be carrying guns around off the base. 



Left Turn Clyde said:


> Doesn't need pointing out - who else would it belong to?
> 
> If nothing went wrong in this, it would be deathly dull though. It's only the challenges to a utopia that make it interesting.
> My flatmate saw the original Survivors and tells me that a lot of it was very dull - loads of discussions about seed planting and crop rotation.



You do have a way of stating your opinion that makes it sound as though you're saying 'this is the truth, the whole truth, and the only truth.' 

Obviously if nothing went wrong it would be dull to most people - I never suggested that (because I'm not a complete moron). Some of the things that go wrong would be down to nature (coping with the cold without electricity, for starters), bad luck, ordinary human failings like not knowing how to heal injuries, etc. Some of the people would be 'bad,' too, naturally, but I wouldn't expect 90% of the survivors to turn into sociopaths. 



spitfire said:


> The average military base, unmanned, would probably be easier to get into than the average high street bank vault.
> 
> the base itself should just be a case of going through the front gates. The weapon store a bit harder. All you need are tools and time.
> 
> ...



Hmm. That's all news to me, but it's interesting. 

Perhaps the governent in this show decided to booby-trap the weapons stores rather than allow its citizens to have access to weaponry at a time when social order has disappeared.


----------



## scifisam (Nov 25, 2008)

feerd said:


> excellent tension. Beesley is great and Paterson actually bothered to act a bit in this one. The Scottish woman is a bit stupid and annoying but hey...
> Why do Ali and Naj have to keep having happy life affirming scenes chasing chickens and stuff though? That almost ruins it
> 
> next week looks good, more violence for all those who keep complaining about the lack of zombies and gore



I find it weird just how 'pure' the little boy is, too. He's supposed to be about 12, isn't he? 

I wonder how long it'll be before Al finds God.


----------



## spitfire (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> I find it weird just how 'pure' the little boy is, too. He's supposed to be about 12, isn't he?
> 
> I wonder how long it'll be before Al finds God.



I bloody well hope not, he needs to be drinking vodka and going out to find another R8 to cane.


----------



## feerd (Nov 25, 2008)

Perhaps the governent in this show decided to booby-trap the weapons stores rather than allow its citizens to have access to weaponry at a time when social order has disappeared.[/QUOTE]

no way they would never have been able to sort that out.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> I wasn't expecting each military base to have so much weaponry that it would take more than ten lorries to move the stuff! Would there really be that much? I also wasn't expecting the squaddies to be carrying guns around off the base.



Probably wouldn't have that much small arms, but what about the tanks, the APCs the engineering tanks, the demolitions kit, the ordinance. There's a reason the RLC is 16% of the army, that's to move kit around that 's needed to fight on a daily basis, the kit that's stockpiled should last for weeks in case of war.

As to the soldiers carrying firearms, of course they would. If you kept them on the barracks they're useless.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> You do have a way of stating your opinion that makes it sound as though you're saying 'this is the truth, the whole truth, and the only truth.'


That's because it is. I am always right.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Nov 25, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> More likely to destroy them in place if you had dems around.
> 
> Now, moving them, you'd need loaders, that's a lot of men. You'd need a site to move them to. You'd need to do all this while the soldiers are dropping dead around you as, let's face it, you don't burn your bridges until you know you need to. Then when people start dropping out on the drive what do you do, stop the convoy and move hte co drive into the seat? Fine, then you end up without a codriver, when they go down that's a 4 ton truck's worth of assault rifles spread over the side of the road...
> 
> ...




All you would need to do is pop along to the local plod shop and if you dont hit pay dirt there then just get the records of the local legal gun owners and you are away. 

But you would be looking to tool up from the moment you realised that they were not collecting the bodies anymore.


----------



## spitfire (Nov 25, 2008)

Stoat Boy said:


> All you would need to do is pop along to the local plod shop and if you dont hit pay dirt there then just get the records of the local legal gun owners and you are away.
> 
> But you would be looking to tool up from the moment you realised that they were not collecting the bodies anymore.



That would also be my first stop, then on to the barracks. Via the vodka and R8 shop. Fuck the tanks, I'll get one later.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

spitfire said:


> That would also be my first stop, then on to the barracks. Via the vodka and R8 shop. Fuck the tanks, I'll get one later.


First come first served, second come first to take a HEAT round to the face.


----------



## spitfire (Nov 25, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> First come first served, second come first to take a HEAT round to the face.



I'll just go to a different barracks than you. My R8 will get me there _really_ quickly.


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 25, 2008)

Mine.

No weapons lots of lovely canal though 







Weedon Barracks











Are you all ing at me yet?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> In your opinion. I like my post-apocalyptic fiction to be an attempt at showing what might actually happen, and I don't think everyone in the real world is as evil as they are in this show. Abby, Anya and the little kid (and maybe Al - seems that the letter a makes you good) are the only ones who haven't leapt on the apocalypse as an opportunity to fuck everyone else over. They could be shown trying to properly build a new world, and that would be pretty interesting, to me.



It'd be interesting but very Corral Island and i'm more of a Lord of the flies fan.

All it takes is for one gang to get violent and go on a local tour. Anyone within a few hours drive will end up getting shafted by the new local warlord. Give it time for supplies to run low and you've got yourself an instant dictatorship in the offing. Power from the barrel of a gun.

The alternative is some group sets up a relatively liberal society and has the firepower to protect itself from attackers. It finds resources (like the depot) or land and squats on it. 

By episode 2 i'd have expected the deeply practical Paterson Joseph to have caught on by now, that if they're going to stay they need weapons. Since he hasn't it spells trouble down the line... 

PS. Ian should have cottened onto that really sharpish. Very out of character.


----------



## Scaggs (Nov 25, 2008)

I like it so far. They keep putting in bits from the original series, like the Netto gang and the hoarder who had his legs crushed. There were loads of wild dogs originally too but it looks like they have left them out this time. I'd like to see less of the shoot-outs and more of the practical stuff too. I suppose they think today's audience won't watch unless there's high speed chases and gun battles though.


----------



## feerd (Nov 25, 2008)

Scaggs said:


> . There were loads of wild dogs originally too but it looks like they have left them out this time. I.



i reckon the dogs will be along soon. i heard em barking in this episode


----------



## Giles (Nov 25, 2008)

In a situation like this - where only a handful of people survive, there wouldn't be any need to start fighting over the food supplies, because there would be LOADS of food to use up. 

I mean - are we to assume that 1 in 100,000, or less, survived?

A real nightmare would be 5% of people surviving - too few to maintain order or much structure, but enough to scavenge through the remaining food and stuff pretty quickly.

When they met the baddies on today's episode - why not just fuck off to the next Tesco Express or whatever?

And above all, why did they all split up to go looking for stuff. There is safety in numbers. Why not all drive to a big shop (after procuring some guns, just in case) and load up? It's like the horror movie cliche where the cast decide to split up and search the place in the dark, just so they can all get into shit one by one.....

Even the nasty incident with Alim (sp?) and the boy and the old man would have been avoided then. If they had all banged on the door of his shop, and he'd come out and yelled, they could have left him to it, or he could have joined them. 

Interesting, but silly. I shall continue watching just because I like the original series and want to see which way they will go with the new one.

Giles..


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

Why fight? It's what we do best and even an idiot will realise that there's only a limited stock so letting anyone at it would be foolish.

The lack of thinking/planning shown was atrocious though, no question of that.


----------



## scifisam (Nov 25, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Probably wouldn't have that much small arms, but what about the tanks, the APCs the engineering tanks, the demolitions kit, the ordinance. There's a reason the RLC is 16% of the army, that's to move kit around that 's needed to fight on a daily basis, the kit that's stockpiled should last for weeks in case of war.
> 
> As to the soldiers carrying firearms, of course they would. If you kept them on the barracks they're useless.



I wasn't thinking about tanks, because I can't see them having a lot of practical use, really. I also would have thought it wouldn't be too difficult to disable them. Soldiers would only be carrying firearms while working. 



Stoat Boy said:


> All you would need to do is pop along to the local plod shop and if you dont hit pay dirt there then just get the records of the local legal gun owners and you are away.
> 
> But you would be looking to tool up from the moment you realised that they were not collecting the bodies anymore.



I would be looking to tool up too, to be honest, but I don't think it'd be as easy as you're saying. The cop shop would have hardly guns, kept well locked away, and the only legal gun owners would be a few farmers with rifles, in this country at least. America would be a dfferent matter. 



Bob_the_lost said:


> It'd be interesting but very Corral Island and i'm more of a Lord of the flies fan.
> 
> All it takes is for one gang to get violent and go on a local tour. Anyone within a few hours drive will end up getting shafted by the new local warlord. Give it time for supplies to run low and you've got yourself an instant dictatorship in the offing. Power from the barrel of a gun.
> 
> ...



But then the people living under that dictator don't nearly all have to be complete tossers too, do they? I'm not objecting to the prescence of evil characters, just the dearth of good ones. 

And yeah, they will have to get their own guns soon enough - looks like they might be doing that next ep. 

Ian? Who?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> But then the people living under that dictator don't nearly all have to be complete tossers too, do they? I'm not objecting to the prescence of evil characters, just the dearth of good ones.
> 
> And yeah, they will have to get their own guns soon enough - looks like they might be doing that next ep.
> 
> Ian? Who?


That's not how human nature works in nearly any psychological experiment ever performed.

As to them not being complete tossers, if they show weakness to their new serfs then they won't be trusted by the dictator, who'll entrust power to someone who does, they'll lose standing in their group and everyone else will adopt the social mores that lead to success, namely being a tosser. Look at child soldiers, look at stockholm syndrome, look at the guards at concerntration camps, look at gangs that kill people in the most horrific ways. People are capable of terrible things, especially when in groups.

The soldiers would carry the weapons with them EVERYWHERE. The exceptions being the mess hall and, well, that's it. Then they're stacked outside under a guard. While sleeping they might do the same. If they're off baracks then they'll have them with them and when they die they'll be lying in the streets.


----------



## scifisam (Nov 25, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> That's not how human nature works in nearly any psychological experiment ever performed.
> 
> As to them not being complete tossers, if they show weakness to their new serfs then they won't be trusted by the dictator, who'll entrust power to someone who does, they'll lose standing in their group and everyone else will adopt the social mores that lead to success, namely being a tosser.



I was talking about the serfs as well. 

If people are so essentially evil, then it's surprising that any of us are alive now. 



> The soldiers would carry the weapons with them EVERYWHERE. The exceptions being the mess hall and, well, that's it. Then they're stacked outside under a guard. While sleeping they might do the same.



_While they're on duty_. They don't just go wandering around with them, so they're not going to be a good supply of guns.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 25, 2008)

Martial law. First episode. Soldiers maintaining basic services i think the term was. What do you think the government would do, send them home to be with their family!? Hah! Once martial law is on the go then you'd be on duty 24/7 until it passes.


----------



## Scaggs (Nov 26, 2008)

feerd said:


> i reckon the dogs will be along soon. i heard em barking in this episode



I remember they all seemed to have rabies in the original series too. Don't know how that happened


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2008)

I wouldn't know where to fucking start with a gun. Does it have an 'on' switch? What is a safety catch? How do I get more bullets inside it?

I suspect most people would be the same and would most likely do themselves an injury before they acquired the requisite skills to shoot an angry looter in a pressure situation.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 26, 2008)

Alex B said:


> I wouldn't know where to fucking start with a gun. Does it have an 'on' switch? What is a safety catch? How do I get more bullets inside it?
> 
> I suspect most people would be the same and would most likely do themselves an injury before they acquired the requisite skills to shoot an angry looter in a pressure situation.




you know a lot of time and money has gone into making weapons like the 9mm glock pistol dead simple to load and use.


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> you know a lot of time and money has gone into making weapons like the 9mm glock pistol dead simple to load and use.


See, I didn't even know that!

When I got my new phone I had to look up on the internet how to take the back cover off.


----------



## Giles (Nov 26, 2008)

Alex B said:


> I wouldn't know where to fucking start with a gun. Does it have an 'on' switch? What is a safety catch? How do I get more bullets inside it?
> 
> I suspect most people would be the same and would most likely do themselves an injury before they acquired the requisite skills to shoot an angry looter in a pressure situation.



I think that most people would be able to figure it out pretty quickly - I mean, start with a shotgun - that's pretty straightforward to load etc.

Biggest problem likely to be recoil on firing it if you aren't ready for it.

Most people have watched enough telly and movies to have a vague idea. They are so simple even teenage "gangstas" can use them to shoot each other.....

Giles..


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 26, 2008)

That's what the manuals are for kiddies


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

i want some full on mad max action


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 26, 2008)

does that really look so complex Alex? Ti important bits are the sights, trigger and the magazine catch. And your stance obv. Don't go all 'gangsta' and try to fire one handed with the gun held sideways. go for the two haded wagner stance.

What does snoop say about b'more?

in b'more we aim to hit a nigga


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

I'd have a fucking HERD of ponies by now and be doing Max Beesley


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

severe lack of tattoos as well


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

Is that in general, Marty, or in relation to the show?


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Is that in general, Marty, or in relation to the show?



both

can't believe that hard nut beesely got turned over by that couple in the car - in a post plague world, I'd keep my gun on me, not in a fucking holdall


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 26, 2008)

marty21 said:


> both
> 
> can't believe that hard nut beesely got turned over by that couple in the car - in a post plague world, I'd keep my gun on me, not in a fucking holdall


And ditch the cash.  God.

It's never going to live up to _how I remember_ the original series (which, obviously, is going to differ from the reality of it), but so far I'm enjoying it.  Some good bits.  Bob being crushed by red wine crates after surviving the plague, that was good.


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> And ditch the cash.  God.
> 
> It's never going to live up to _how I remember_ the original series (which, obviously, is going to differ from the reality of it), but so far I'm enjoying it.  Some good bits.  Bob being crushed by red wine crates after surviving the plague, that was good.



i am quite liking it too, but max needs to up his game, staring down the man with the shot gun was good - looking forward to alpha males max and patterson squaring off next week


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

So did Max really get mugged for his stuff in the car?  I thought that was a fib and that he had gone for them?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> So did Max really get mugged for his stuff in the car?  I thought that was a fib and that he had gone for them?


He got dumped for being obviously trouble: for having a secret gun, not because the young couple wanted it.


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

Ok - see he's a baddie for sure  

Good.


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> So did Max really get mugged for his stuff in the car?  I thought that was a fib and that he had gone for them?



There was a struggle, but he was a convicted killer and all round wrong un, you'd think he would come out on top, not pushed out of a moving car, frankly i was disappointed in him


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Ok - see he's a baddie for sure
> 
> Good.


He could be trying to go for the fresh start that this brave new world offers him.


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

Indeed. I don't care so long as he keeps up the threatening air.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> you know a lot of time and money has gone into making weapons like the 9mm glock pistol dead simple to load and use.



Even hoary old kit like the Browning Hi-Power and the SMLE rifle are easy to load and use.


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 26, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Obviously if nothing went wrong it would be dull to most people - I never suggested that (because I'm not a complete moron). Some of the things that go wrong would be down to nature (coping with the cold without electricity, for starters), bad luck, ordinary human failings like not knowing how to heal injuries, etc. *Some of the people would be 'bad,' too, naturally, but I wouldn't expect 90% of the survivors to turn into sociopaths*.
> 
> 
> 
> .




Over one single night as well!


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Indeed. I don't care so long as he keeps up the threatening air.



he seems to be a bit of a love sick puppy with the doctor burd


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

That man was a DRINKER though.  They were all DRINKERS.  They were making a bit of a thing of that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 26, 2008)

_angel_ said:


> Over one single night as well!


_Three_ nights!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 26, 2008)

Which was long enough to turn even Jesus into a Zombie!


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> That man was a DRINKER though.  They were all DRINKERS.  They were making a bit of a thing of that.


Drinking cheap shite too.


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

And SHOOTING the fizz?  wtf?   Must have been pikeys.


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 26, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> _Three_ nights!



That changes everything!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 26, 2008)

_angel_ said:


> That changes everything!


Did with Jesus.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 26, 2008)

As to the change, we're not talking about sociopaths, we're talking about an insular us vs. them attitude in a high stress environment. There's a clear escalation as the encounters progress too.

Plot guesswork: Abby is the only one who's been infected and survived, anyone want to bet that the lads down in Portland Down don't go after her at some point?


----------



## Iguana (Nov 26, 2008)

marty21 said:


> i am quite liking it too, but max needs to up his game, staring down the man with the shot gun was good



It wasn't though.  He was in a car and had the element of surprise so he should just have run Brian from Shameless down.  I was yelling at the tv of the stupidity of that scene.  Both Tom and Greg should have known better than to leave all the food in the hands of the dangerous morons.


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

Iguana said:


> It wasn't though.  He was in a car and had the element of surprise so he should just have run Brian from Shameless down.  I was yelling at the tv of the stupidity of that scene.  Both Tom and Greg should have known better than to leave all the food in the hands of the dangerous morons.



it was a bit of a gamble, he could have been shot, the baddie was useful with the shotgun, he had been practicing with the fizz


----------



## elevendayempire (Nov 26, 2008)

Iguana said:


> It wasn't though.  He was in a car and had the element of surprise so he should just have run Brian from Shameless down.  I was yelling at the tv of the stupidity of that scene.  Both Tom and Greg should have known better than to leave all the food in the hands of the dangerous morons.


I don't understand why, when Brian from Shameless fired his second shotgun round _into the air_, they didn't just walk up and kick the shit out of him. Or just drive into him.


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> I don't understand why, when Brian from Shameless fired his second shotgun round _into the air_, they didn't just walk up and kick the shit out of him. Or just drive into him.



fucking hopeless aren't they  survivors? pah!!!


----------



## Griff (Nov 26, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> I don't understand why, when Brian from Shameless fired his second shotgun round _into the air_, they didn't just walk up and kick the shit out of him. Or just drive into him.



Weren't a couple of Brian from Shameless's mates armed though?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 26, 2008)

Shall we guess some of the plot twists now?

Sarah (silly calculating bint) acts as a divicive element
Alpha male showdown with Greg and Tom, Abbey steps in and solves it.
Showdown with gang where at least one good guy (possibly from the new load that join them) dies as does the leader of the evil gang, who's probably killed in cold blood.


----------



## susie12 (Nov 26, 2008)

Just keep feeling Ive seen it all before.  Which I have, in the 70s - that was  a bit rougher round the edges and there were also some people over 40 which was nice.


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

Sexytime involving Max Beesley.  Some allusions of the "continuing the human race therefore we have to have sex" kind.

Some fucking zombies PLEASE!!


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Sexytime involving Max Beesley.  Some allusions of the "continuing the human race therefore we have to have sex" kind.
> 
> Some fucking zombies PLEASE!!


How about plague? Would you accept that?


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

susie12 said:


> Just keep feeling Ive seen it all before.  Which I have, in the 70s - that was  a bit rougher round the edges and there were also some people over 40 which was nice.



julie graham and patterson joseph are both over 40 tbf, i have no idea how old they are supposed to be in the programme though

and can they just get on with it


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 26, 2008)

Is it wrong to want to punch Max 'Mr Ubiquitous voiceover' Beesly?


----------



## Iguana (Nov 26, 2008)

Griff said:


> Weren't a couple of Brian from Shameless's mates armed though?



Only with sticks.  They had one gun, with one bullet in it between the lot of them.  And the dangerous murderer couldn't think of anything better to do with his moving vehicle than get out of it and have a stare off.


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

Iguana said:


> Only with sticks.  They had one gun, with one bullet in it between the lot of them.  And the dangerous murderer couldn't think of anything better to do with his moving vehicle than get out of it and have a stare off.



unusual choice but it seemed to work


----------



## Iguana (Nov 26, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> I don't understand why, when Brian from Shameless fired his second shotgun round _into the air_, they didn't just walk up and kick the shit out of him. Or just drive into him.



That pissed me off too.  The script hasn't been very well thought out.  It would have been pretty easy to make Brian from Shamless an ex-soldier and he could have armed his mates and have control of the barracks.  That would explain why "our" survivors are still unarmed and made Brian's gang dangerous rather than stupid.


----------



## Iguana (Nov 26, 2008)

marty21 said:


> unusual choice but it seemed to work



I guess Tom had read ahead in the script.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 26, 2008)

lizzieloo said:


> For fucks sake what utter, utter toilet.
> 
> I've just tried to watch the first episode.
> 
> ...



Yes you, me and every other boater or ex boater out there must've been screaming at the telly.  He wouldv'e even been able to keep using his laptop  and once all the bottled water ran out,you could get one of those 12v water purifiers you get on yachts.  Sod it, I think I'd just get a yacht......


----------



## Balbi (Nov 26, 2008)

I had Beesley mowing down Shameless bloke and taking out his crew in a very cool skid with the jeep.

It's a bit of an old thing though; shameless bloke's not a killer is he? Doesn't have it in him. Odds on they didn't even do that bloke in Netto and all.

Beesley's going to fucking mince him properly, cos he's a killer. And cool.


----------



## dlx1 (Nov 26, 2008)

what a horrid bitch, who was fucking Bob, then she get turned down 
Go away you slut. 

on next Tuesday  not Sunday


----------



## camouflage (Nov 26, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> It's got Paterson  Joseph in it, too.



I think you'll find he also goes by the name of Paterson "Oh yeah! That bloke from Peep Show" Joseph.

He'll make a fine Dr Who.


----------



## Iguana (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm I the only one who doesn't really rate Paterson Joseph?  When he's meant to be looking serious he comes across as constipated.  And his left eye bulges, he reminds me of the ugly guy with the perm who's often in the line up on Buzzcocks.


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

dlx1 said:


> what a horrid bitch, who was fucking Bob, then she get turned down
> Go away you slut.
> 
> on next Tuesday  not Sunday



he manipulated her as well though - he'd *look after her* if she put out.  Both as bad as each other imo and therefore IDEAL ZOMBIE VICTIMS


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> he manipulated her as well though - he'd *look after her* if she put out.  Both as bad as each other imo and therefore IDEAL ZOMBIE VICTIMS


Did he really? I thought we only had her word on that...

He really didn't come across as anything more than the doormat type.


----------



## 8den (Nov 26, 2008)

Balbi said:


> I had Beesley mowing down Shameless bloke and taking out his crew in a very cool skid with the jeep.



I had the producer run a red line through it, and with a note in the margin saying, "that'd pretty much finish the stunts and effects budget for the rest of the series"


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Did he really? I thought we only had her word on that...
> 
> He really didn't come across as anything more than the doormat type.



oh look at him, he was all sweaty and gross and she said "if you must" in that weary way when he wanted to put his gross nob in her.  

So no, we don't have anyone's word but hers.

I don't watch these things for facts ok?  I watch them to make snap judgements and shout at the telly 

Bob's going to die really horribly anyway so no one will know the difference.   Except Max with his death stare.


----------



## MikeMcc (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't really understand the criticism, it's meant to be a reasonably shallow drama, not a training video.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> oh look at him, he was all sweaty and gross and she said "if you must" in that weary way when he wanted to put his gross nob in her.
> 
> So no, we don't have anyone's word but hers.
> 
> ...


You're mean to me. 

I think he's just really really naieve. Plus he's not going to die, she said he was dead and he'll pop up alive at some key moment to undermine her credibility.


----------



## Iguana (Nov 26, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I think he's just really really naieve. Plus he's not going to die, she said he was dead and he'll pop up alive at some key moment to undermine her credibility.



He obviously thinks Sarah and Greg are shagging and will have a vendetta against them.  The Shameless gang will help him out/keep him alive long enough to get some information about their mutual enemies out of him.  (I can't remember if he learned any information, but plots apparently don't have to make any sense in this show.)


----------



## Giles (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> oh look at him, he was all sweaty and gross and she said "if you must" in that weary way when he wanted to put his gross nob in her.
> 
> So no, we don't have anyone's word but hers.
> 
> ...



No, we don't have anyone's word but hers. And we HAVE seen that she is quite happy to offer herself to a bloke she just met in order to persuade him to stay with her, which makes her "I'm the victim, he used me" thing somewhat questionable......

Anyway, she's stupid as well. How can someone be sufficiently scheming to plot this idea that she and whoever is her bloke will become "rich" - in what, eh?! 

By trading their unlimited supplies for - again, what? and yet not think that their ownership of the warehouse is only going to last if they can have enough force and firepower to stand up to all rivals?

Standing outside when confronted with a few blokes with guns and yelling "but its mine, cos I found it first" isn't really going to count, is it?

Entertaining, but as silly as the haunted house movie where the characters, upon hearing blatant sounds of supernatural nasties, all agree to separate and search the place on their own.......

Giles..


----------



## cybertect (Nov 26, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I think he's just really really naieve. Plus he's not going to die, she said he was dead and he'll pop up alive at some key moment to undermine her credibility.



Bob may resurface 

In the original TV series, the equivalent character (holed up in a quarry with selfish and stupid Anne Tranter, a huge hoard of stuff and a broken leg) was named Vic.


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

He'll come back with a horrible limp and some flesh eating disease to wreak vengeance!!

LIKE A ZOMBIE!


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> blah blah blah....Max with his death stare.



that's all i saw in that post

and i like the death stare, almost like a death star


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 26, 2008)

Iguana said:


> I'm I the only one who doesn't really rate Paterson Joseph?  When he's meant to be looking serious he comes across as constipated.  And his left eye bulges, he reminds me of the ugly guy with the perm who's often in the line up on Buzzcocks.



I think he's quality


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 26, 2008)

I've got the virus now.    I feel terrible.  No lumps under my arms as yet, but I'm sure this is it...


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I've got the virus now.    I feel terrible.  No lumps under my arms as yet, but I'm sure this is it...



how many days, is it 3?, if you survive that you become leader of the survivors, and the mysterious scientists might hunt you down


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

marty21 said:


> that's all i saw in that post
> 
> and i like the death stare, almost like a death star



yeah well Bob made a good point so I had to see it off with some proper evasive shit


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> yeah well Bob made a good point so I had to see it off with some proper evasive shit



we must ignore bob's good points


----------



## Pieface (Nov 26, 2008)

Focus only on the bad 

Like Max would


----------



## marty21 (Nov 26, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Focus only on the bad
> 
> Like Max would



we love max


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 29, 2008)

Saw it on catch up tv last night.

Have to say its pretty shit. 

The whole post apocolytic premise is jsut a backdrop for some clunky, badly written charcter driven emotional interaction - so what you get is Hollyoaks after the plauge - written by ponces.

Its seriously lacking in grittiness, fear, tension or any sort of relaistic portrayal of how people would act in this situation. The nettos gang FFS - 'dont come back or we'll wave our guns at you again' follwoed by 'i told you not come back - now we're going to point guns and snarl at you again' followed by ' you again - now Im so evil Im going to work myself up to slapping you around the face!'. It was like grange hill with shopping trollies. 

They seem to be shying away from anything too disturbing -e.g. why didn't the shop keeper whack the kid with his club? Cos that would be too unpleasnt? But you cant take this sort of subject matter and try and make it cosy ffs.

And why aren't they sitting down and working out what they need and where to get it from? 

Its deeply frustarting cos its such ane excellent opportunity to explore both the tech dependant fragility of modern society and fundemtnal questions about the human interaction, organisation and morality in the face of extreme conditions.  If you let the plot and context drive the story then far more intersting emotional interaction develops out of it.  Instead we have a brit version of 'lost'. 

Where are all the people going mental? 
And where have all the bodies gone?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 30, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> Where are all the people going mental?
> And where have all the bodies gone?


Everyone was kind enough to be indoors when they died, which makes some sense, but not all of them...

I agree, could be far darker, should be far darker but that's not what the original was like either afaik.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> Saw it on catch up tv last night.
> 
> Have to say its pretty shit.
> 
> ...



so, watching it again?, it starts in a few minutes


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

I need to bitch about something other than school work


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

She's bringing him back some Paxo


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

In the future, we cannot afford to waste fuel, power. With the exception of Catatonia. IT MUST BE PLAYED AT ALL TIMES.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Chances of him surviving the episode? Slim


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

a boiler suit and a pair of rubber gloves will protect me


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

And DOORS. When they are closed they stop GERMS.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Oh, that's obvious.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Naked bathtime, less so


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

Balbi said:


> And DOORS. When they are closed they stop GERMS.



only when they are bolted


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

There's people fucking EVERYWHERE


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Crazy dad, crazy dad
baths in bleach
crazy dad,
killed his wife, at some point
later revealed in the narrative
look out,
here comes crazy dad.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

the most overprotective dad, evah!!


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Oh for fucks sake. He should have butchered her and she'd been the carcase in the garden 

This show is so sweet it makes me want to watch Hollyoaks, cos it's better to fap to


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

He's not even bloody creepy, he's just an easy to hate shitfuck


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

he's a smooth operator, he won't be stopped


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

He's just proper shit. There's no acting going on, there's crap dialogue. The plots obvious and otherwise irrelevent.

It doesn't even look nice.

WHY AM I WATCHING!


----------



## madzone (Dec 2, 2008)

I'm quite enjoying it


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

Balbi said:


> He's just proper shit. There's no acting going on, there's crap dialogue. The plots obvious and otherwise irrelevent.
> 
> It doesn't even look nice.
> 
> WHY AM I WATCHING!



you love it, bitch


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

The Hon. member of the Daily Mail Readership there


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Love how they don't factor in Scotland for survivors at all.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Oh, that was nice - a bit clunky, but nice


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

CAPTAIN OBVIOUS BIRTHDAY


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Love how they don't factor in Scotland for survivors at all.



those poor girls heading or the western isles


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Well that's the basic plot movement for the second half of the series sorted, as predicted in episode one


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

I was hoping Doctor Who was going to smack her one for a second


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

she's telling them everything, they could be baddies


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

*plays the BBC's 'scary piano'*

ding, dung, ding, dung, ding.....


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Oh noez. Sausages.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

raiders  it's like mad max!!!


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

The P.M's typical there.

EVERYONE DO WHAT I SAY!  While I stand here and look thoughtful.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

*riffles through 'The Little Book of Poignant Platitudes'....*

Ah, that one was page 75.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

mean daddy


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

It's all very BBC drama/sci-fi - running down corridors with torches etc.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Politicians: BEARERS OF CIVILISATION.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 2, 2008)

This trial is hilarious.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

He's holding that gun wrong 

OH SHUT UP YOU BLOODY MORON WOMAN.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Clever, start with the most polarised one holding the fucking gun.

WHY HAS HE GOT A GUN ANYWAY - I mean, liability there P.M


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

best dad evah!!


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Oh good lord - 'we have no capacity for custodial sentence, so we're gonna kill you' 

PARALLELS O RLY?


----------



## scifisam (Dec 2, 2008)

Balbi said:


> He's holding that gun wrong
> 
> OH SHUT UP YOU BLOODY MORON WOMAN.



She is just a big sanctimonious, isn't she?

And now the prisoner's starting with the profound speeches too. 

Why don't they just let the raiders stay?


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Exactly. I mean, a case of 'gwan, come in - more the merrier'


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Why don't they just let the raiders stay?



wrong uns, probably from south london


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

Max Beesley can cure acute paranoia and hysteria, BY TALKING TO DOORS.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

i like abbie


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

And all home in time for tea 

*bleurgh*


----------



## marty21 (Dec 2, 2008)

Balbi said:


> And all home in time for tea
> 
> *bleurgh*



same place, same time, next week


----------



## scifisam (Dec 2, 2008)

Hopefully the next episode will be better.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

How would you cope if you were a survivor? Log on to our website to find out 

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....CYBERMEN

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE....Jonathan Creek

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.... TENNANT.


----------



## El Jefe (Dec 2, 2008)

i can't believe i gave this shite a second chance


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2008)

I'll be back next week. For one hour of furious ripping


----------



## cybertect (Dec 2, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Oh good lord - 'we have no capacity for custodial sentence, so we're gonna kill you'
> 
> PARALLELS O RLY?



I'm fairly certain that line (but not much else in the episode) was a direct lift from the original series.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 2, 2008)

I am really enjoying this series! 

(Though I do admit that my brain is completely switched off for an hour, which is good in a way)


----------



## mrsfran (Dec 2, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Max Beesley can cure acute paranoia and hysteria, BY TALKING TO DOORS.


----------



## kerplunk (Dec 2, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> Saw it on catch up tv last night.
> 
> Have to say its pretty shit.
> 
> ...



The fact is it would be a time of plenty for the survivors and they would hardly have to lift a finger - for years and years!

Not much of a story though.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Dec 2, 2008)

kerplunk said:


> The fact is it would be a time of plenty for the survivors and they would hardly have to lift a finger - for years and years!
> 
> Not much of a story though.


Until the fires burnt the stockpiles down.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 2, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Until the fires burnt the stockpiles down.



And they all got cholera.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Dec 2, 2008)

teuchter said:


> And they all got cholera.


I'm a big fan of dysentery myself.


----------



## kerplunk (Dec 3, 2008)

What fires and how do they travel around the country burning everything?

Think of all the livestock - 2 million dairy cattle alone in the country ffs. Looks like summer to me which is lucky cos there'll be millions of acres of crops to go at...

The lab guy said less than 1% had survived. Lets say there's a months supply (for the normal population) of fossil fuels in the country at any one time - 100x months = 8 years worth for the survivors, but it's LESS THAN 1% survived so it's more, and you can probably double it again cos there ain't no industry etc. 

Hardly a recipe for conflict and struggle against the odds is it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2008)

last nights was grim.


----------



## joustmaster (Dec 3, 2008)

my flat mate came home whilst i was watching this. He said had just finished some of the sound mixing for the next episode.


----------



## Pieface (Dec 3, 2008)

Was it any good - shall I download?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2008)

yeah it was the tits man, download it


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Was it any good - shall I download?



s'ok, bit of alpha male stuff between Max and Patterson, some people got shot, a car blows up, an underground chase...


----------



## madzone (Dec 3, 2008)

scifisam said:


> She is just a big sanctimonious, isn't she?
> 
> And now the prisoner's starting with the profound speeches too.
> 
> Why don't they just let the raiders stay?


 

They were _wearing hoods _


----------



## Pieface (Dec 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah it was the tits man, download it



wicked 

Manfights!  Woo!


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2008)

It is, all things considered, mostly complete rubbish. Silly plot, cliched scriptwriting and not terribly good acting. But now I've started watching it I am going to have to watch it all. They were very sneaky putting the first episode on on a Sunday evening when most people's resistance is at its weakest.


----------



## Pieface (Dec 3, 2008)

Gateway scheduling


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2008)

Yes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2008)

teuchter said:


> It is, all things considered, mostly complete rubbish. Silly plot, cliched scriptwriting and not terribly good acting. But now I've started watching it I am going to have to watch it all. They were very sneaky putting the first episode on on a Sunday evening when most people's resistance is at its weakest.



It's TV sci fi, what where you expecting?


----------



## madzone (Dec 3, 2008)

teuchter said:


> It is, all things considered, mostly complete rubbish. Silly plot, cliched scriptwriting and not terribly good acting.


 You make that sound like a bad thing


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 3, 2008)

What was that black woman on about? One moment she was telling that bloke not to hurt them, the next she shot the woman dead.



Schizo or what?

Anyway, it's shit but ill watch it for the laugh. Like someone said, it could have been really interesting if only the writers had some imagination.


----------



## matrix_22 (Dec 3, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Was it any good - shall I download?



s'ok - i just watched the first episode last night - need to catch up - it's ok for that kind of nonsence shit


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 3, 2008)

PieEye said:


> Gateway scheduling



what's that?


----------



## Pieface (Dec 3, 2008)

like a "gateway drug"

god I hate explaining jokes


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2008)

Barking_Mad said:


> What was that black woman on about? One moment she was telling that bloke not to hurt them, the next she shot the woman dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



they had to be given a trial first, and then shot


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2008)

I thought that bit was cool. With one shot she destroyed the very thing she sought to preserve. 


As I drunkenly said to my dog on sunday night


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> It's TV sci fi, what where you expecting?



I was hoping for more:

- Walking dead
- Sinister secret service types
- Underground bunkers
- Explosions
- People doing stuff just because they could, eg. instead of just driving fast cars around, trying to fly jumbo jets and drive trains and driving bulldozers into buildings just for the fun of it.
- Suggestions of extra-terrestrial involvement
- Escaped zoo animals

etc.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2008)

teuchter said:


> I was hoping for more:
> 
> - Walking dead
> - Sinister secret service types
> ...




well it does seem to be more concerned with treading over old-school post apocalypse ideas.

escaped zoo animals and explosions aren't featured enough , tis true


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2008)

Barking_Mad said:


> What was that black woman on about? One moment she was telling that bloke not to hurt them, the next she shot the woman dead.
> 
> 
> 
> Schizo or what?



Yeah, that didn't make any sense. 

Her justification for shooting her was something along the lines that they didn't have suitable facilities to enforce a custodial sentence, so therefore the next best thing was ... a death sentence. She is clearly a loon and it's probably her fault the virus got out of hand in the first place.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought that bit was cool. With one shot she destroyed the very thing she sought to preserve.
> 
> 
> As I drunkenly said to my dog on sunday night



she was a pretty good shot as well, can't believe that a minister would know how to execute someone, but straight to the head, one shot, she stumbled a bit from the recoil, she probably needs more practice


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2008)

At the end of each episode, as the credits start, there is a view of earth from space. There appears to be some kind of greenish algal bloom in the atlantic. Is this supposed to have some kind of significance? Or did it just happen to be there on the stock photo they used?


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 3, 2008)

PieEye said:


> like a "gateway drug"
> 
> god I hate explaining jokes



sorry for being thickz


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 3, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Yeah, that didn't make any sense.
> 
> Her justification for shooting her was something along the lines that they didn't have suitable facilities to enforce a custodial sentence, so therefore the next best thing was ... a death sentence. She is clearly a loon and it's probably her fault the virus got out of hand in the first place.



And she shot the woman for 'stealing'. She should clearly have gone hungry.

A great start to the 'new world'

HELLOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo!

What shite writing.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2008)

teuchter said:


> At the end of each episode, as the credits start, there is a view of earth from space. There appears to be some kind of greenish algal bloom in the atlantic. Is this supposed to have some kind of significance? Or did it just happen to be there on the stock photo they used?



hasn't there been that 'gods spit' thing for a while or did that go away? iirc it was a man made ecological accident or something.

/hazy memory today


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2008)

Barking_Mad said:


> And she shot the woman for 'stealing'. She should clearly have gone hungry.
> 
> 
> HELLOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo!
> ...



unless the character is clearly a losing it weakling trying to keep the sense of order and justice that was the cornerstone of her mental wellbeing. She's lost it and is desperately trying to enforce the trappings of authority despite them having broken down.

makes sense to me, the character is portrayed as a shitting-themselves govmnt functionary unraveling fast


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> unless the character is clearly a losing it weakling trying to keep the sense of order and justice that was the cornerstone of her mental wellbeing. She's lost it and is desperately trying to enforce the trappings of authority despite them having broken down.
> 
> makes sense to me, the character is portrayed as a shitting-themselves govmnt functionary unraveling fast



Problem was there was no step between her being apparently reasonable and then shooting the person. The unravelling was a bit quick  I bet they chopped some bits out.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2008)

Barking_Mad said:


> Problem was there was no step between her being apparently reasonable and then shooting the person. The unravelling was a bit quick  I bet they chopped some bits out.



possibly, but 'episodes' can happen that quick. madness and mad actions aint always preceded by an obvious breaking down. People can wear the sane face untill BOOM lost it.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> unless the character is clearly a losing it weakling trying to keep the sense of order and justice that was the cornerstone of her mental wellbeing. She's lost it and is desperately trying to enforce the trappings of authority despite them having broken down.
> 
> makes sense to me, the character is portrayed as a shitting-themselves govmnt functionary unraveling fast



I am a bit confused as to her pre plague role, ,  is she head of the remaining government? I know the PM died off screen, was she the senior cabinet minister?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2008)

marty21 said:


> I am a bit confused as to her pre plague role, ,  is she head of the remaining government? I know the PM died off screen, was she the senior cabinet minister?



I think she was minister for plagues or something.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> possibly, but 'episodes' can happen that quick. madness and mad actions aint always preceded by an obvious breaking down. People can wear the sane face untill BOOM lost it.



I actually thought she was going to use it as a way of shocking everyone into understanding the reality of a society based on violent retribution. Either by actually shooting them or pretending she was going to shoot them until someone said "stop". But I was wrong.

You're probably right that it was intended as you say. But somehow it wasn't very convincing.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2008)

teuchter said:


> I think she was minister for plagues or something.



Good at her job then, managed to wipe out at least 90% of the population, I think it was part of a conspiracy to cull the population so that oil and gas would last longer, 90% cull of the population, if repeated throughout the world, these resources would last much longer


----------



## Iguana (Dec 3, 2008)

marty21 said:


> I am a bit confused as to her pre plague role, ,  is she head of the remaining government? I know the PM died off screen, was she the senior cabinet minister?



In the first episode she asks how the PM is and she is told that she is pretty much the PM now.  She's no Laura Roslin though.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 3, 2008)

marty21 said:


> Good at her job then, managed to wipe out at least 90% of the population, I think it was part of a conspiracy to cull the population so that oil and gas would last longer, 90% cull of the population, if repeated throughout the world, these resources would last much longer



99%, even. 

I presume other countries have also been devastated in the same way, otherwise England would have been invaded.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2008)

scifisam said:


> 99%, even.
> 
> I presume other countries have also been devastated in the same way, otherwise England would have been invaded.



i reckon iceland was spared, and now it's payback time


----------



## Balbi (Dec 3, 2008)

6 BILLION PEOPLE DIED. In one night.

And nothing ridiculous like nuclear stations going boom, or everything catching fire or Iran nuking Israel 'cos they can'


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2008)

scifisam said:


> 99%, even.
> 
> I presume other countries have also been devastated in the same way, otherwise England would have been invaded.



Although, speaking for myself, if the population of France had just been decimated by an incurable and highly contagious bug, I wouldn't be in such a big hurry to head over there and plant my flag...


----------



## 8den (Dec 3, 2008)

teuchter said:


> I was hoping for more:
> 
> - Walking dead
> - Sinister secret service types
> ...



If you're lucky they'll do a US remake, and add a zero to the budget to make all of the above possible.


----------



## _angel_ (Dec 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> well it does seem to be more concerned with treading over old-school post apocalypse ideas.
> 
> escaped zoo animals and explosions aren't featured enough , tis true



Maybe the zoo animals die in the zoo... however there ought to be packs of roaming dogs .. although it's only been a few days yet...


----------



## madzone (Dec 3, 2008)

PieEye said:


> like a "gateway drug"
> 
> god I hate explaining jokes


 

I got it.

I actually thought it was very good and had an inward lol at it


----------



## Bingo (Dec 3, 2008)

Algal bloom in Atlantic = Sargasso Sea??


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2008)

_angel_ said:


> Maybe the zoo animals die in the zoo... however there ought to be packs of roaming dogs .. although it's only been a few days yet...



One thing is a definite survival tip for post apocalypse scenarios: get the fuck out of major urban centres asap


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Dec 3, 2008)

teuchter said:


> At the end of each episode, as the credits start, there is a view of earth from space. There appears to be some kind of greenish algal bloom in the atlantic. Is this supposed to have some kind of significance? Or did it just happen to be there on the stock photo they used?


I spotted that too, no idea what it means if anything.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> One thing is a definite survival tip for post apocalypse scenarios: get the fuck out of major urban centres asap



keep your car topped up with petrol at all times , just in case you need to flee, and learn how to hotwire abandoned cars too


----------



## scifisam (Dec 3, 2008)

That weird world map also doesn't show most of the UK.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 4, 2008)

utter shit. 

what could have been a dark, gripping, thought provoking and exciting TV is instead a load of wet wank. 

No-one swears! the doctor says 'the chicken has - done something - on my bed' as if shes some prudish maiden aunt from the WI - the sort of person who says 'oh sugar' instead of 'shit'. I suspect this is a load of neutered bollcks beasue they are thinking of international sales - so toning down the violence, darkness and  - ooooo! - bad language they figure they'll e able to flog it to the yanks as 'family freindly'? 

And the happy family crap. And the way they jsut wander off alone in their cars blithely saying 'i'll be ok!' - despite first hand experiecne of the perils out there. 

And why is the women from the govenment in charge of anything? Surely the aggresive bloke with the gun would have told her to fuck off? Do anyone think in a post apocolyptuc scenario people would give any time to Hazel Blears or David Milliband, or any poilticion, if they tried to be 'the government'?

And what makes this lot any better than the chav gang who'd taken over nettos in last weeks epsiode? Shooting 'looters' seems to have gone from 'nasty bad evil' to a handwrining liberal dilema. Why? - becasue they have a wind turbine and a university education? 

And when they were about to shoot her why didn't that women say anyhting other than 'this a load of crap'. Surely she'd have been pointing out either the ridiculousness of them setting themselves up as 'the law' or pleading necessity.

terrible plot, appalling writing, inbecillic understanding of the reality of what a post apocoplytoc scenario would be like and how people would behave and - bar the young lad, the teenage girl and mr prison bait - dreadful acting.

Fucking shit. Fuck you BBC, it could have been great but you've delivered a steaming pile of pony.  most dissapointing TV series ever. 

And has no-one heard of DEISEL GENERATORS? 

(And yes - 1%  of the population would have plenty of resources for months and months and would not need to be fighting each other for it)


----------



## Griff (Dec 4, 2008)

So you're not too keen then, Kaka?


----------



## Bingo (Dec 4, 2008)




----------



## Iguana (Dec 4, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> And why is the women from the govenment in charge of anything? Surely the aggresive bloke with the gun would have told her to fuck off? Do anyone think in a post apocolyptuc scenario people would give any time to Hazel Blears or David Milliband, or any poilticion, if they tried to be 'the government'?



They would if she'd recalled the army to her as soon as it became apparent how many people were dying.  There would be enough soldiers who would have been willing to respect her authority to ensure her position.  She could have then gone to the eco centre and set it up as the beginning of a new society.  Britain is currently a small landmass with a high population density.  So with roughly half a million people left on the island it would only take 2 or 3 years for her to expand her authority slowly across the countries and bring back a fairly modern society.  If she was smart enough to do that, and explain it properly people would follow her.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 4, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I spotted that too, no idea what it means if anything.



Here it is. It seems to be lurking in the Bay of Biscay, whatever it is.


----------



## Pingu (Dec 4, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> One thing is a definite survival tip for post apocalypse scenarios: get the fuck out of major urban centres asap



waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of the game there...



though it would mean that your carbon footprint for looting trips to tescos etc would be bigger due to the travel.


----------



## ovaltina (Dec 4, 2008)

I watched about half of episode 3 last night but fell asleep. It's a bit too BBCish for me. That thing with the kid and the fucking chickens is so sacchirine it makes me feel a bit queasy. Not a patch on Dead Set.


----------



## soulman (Dec 4, 2008)

It is all a bit tame and cheesy. Although there was some satire around the cabinet minister who pulled the gun and shot the dreadlocked 'scavenger'. It was pretty obvious what was going to happen, but it ended up with a nice new labour slogan - justice and mercy wasn't it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2008)

yay it's on later


----------



## Balbi (Dec 9, 2008)

*sharpens claws*


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Dec 9, 2008)

Balbi said:


> *sharpens claws*


Who left them lying around!?!

*takes away claws*

*returns Balbi's handbag*


----------



## marty21 (Dec 9, 2008)

get some more in


now!!


----------



## Balbi (Dec 9, 2008)

Nope. Not watching tonight. Will Iplayer and post entire results tomorrow.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 9, 2008)

why haven't they picked up any guns yet?


----------



## _pH_ (Dec 9, 2008)

I got bored by that tonight. Couldn't be arsed to watch the second half. But then i seem to have the attention span of a goldfish atm


----------



## belboid (Dec 9, 2008)

dear god, that was just such utter drivel. complete and utter shite


----------



## rover07 (Dec 9, 2008)

Watched this for the first time tonight (cos a friend keeps going on about it)... I really liked it! 

Yep no guns...but we're Britsh dont you know, you can just handcuff bad guys and drive them out into the country...problem solved


----------



## scifisam (Dec 9, 2008)

Have those kids all read Lord of the Flies, then? And did no girl children survive? Though it doesn't look like many adult women survived either. 

I still hate the way all the conflict is manufactured - people stealing from each other even though there's plenty go around - when there's so much potential for natural conflict. 

I also wondered if the minister, in her white suits, ever gets her hands dirty. Shooting someone for 'theiving' does not count.


----------



## rover07 (Dec 9, 2008)

Why does Abby think her son is alive?


----------



## rover07 (Dec 9, 2008)

Why did she shoot him...for stealing what? 

( ive got some catching up to do)


----------



## scifisam (Dec 10, 2008)

rover07 said:


> Why does Abby think her son is alive?



Either a 'connection,' or the fact that she got ill and still survived, or pure hope. 



rover07 said:


> Why did she shoot him...for stealing what?
> 
> ( ive got some catching up to do)



She shot a woman for attemtping to steal (food and stuff) from the compound's stores. But they held a kangaroo court first, so that's OK.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 10, 2008)

She expelled him for _singing at the breakfast table_?


----------



## rover07 (Dec 10, 2008)

scifisam said:


> She shot a woman for attemtping to steal (food and stuff) from the compound's stores. But they held a kangaroo court first, so that's OK.


 
Ta...

 Bit harsh when theres plenty of food surely.. the whole prison/fascist set up was wrong. There was only 20 odd people there??

And work ethic? Chopping wood? Why? How about some chainsaws or generators....loved it


----------



## rover07 (Dec 10, 2008)

scifisam said:


> She expelled him for _singing at the breakfast table_?



He was a rebellious workshy troublemaker...She gave him just one day to settle in... 

Harsh but fair


----------



## belboid (Dec 10, 2008)

and why was the head of security fast asleep despite an alarm and escape going on only five minutes earlier. 

and how could an eejit like al break in so piss easily and wander through the whole place, seemingly knowing it intimately despite having only spent a few hours there?

and why did the country estate still have perfectly maintained gardens and topiary?

and, and, and....


----------



## rover07 (Dec 10, 2008)

and why was the prison/goverment place so spartan?

If you are trying to attract people then surely a well-stocked and comfy place would be better... a university campus ...or a village whrere the houses have been cleared would be better.

Hmmm...Give me the shotgun, im taking charge here


----------



## scifisam (Dec 10, 2008)

Greg and Anya were good, though. Jimmy and his confrontations with the kids made a decent storyline, as did Peter not being her own Peter.

I guess Al got in because they weren't expecting an attack by river.


----------



## rover07 (Dec 10, 2008)

Is that the main theme of this? 

Do you go down the route of guns, violence, police state...

Or non-violence and cooperation...


----------



## scifisam (Dec 10, 2008)

rover07 said:


> Is that the main theme of this?
> 
> Do you go down the route of guns, violence, police state...
> 
> Or non-violence and cooperation...



Ooh, maybe it is!

It has a theme.  Excellent. I need more excuses to keep watching, because I want to despite myself.


----------



## belboid (Dec 10, 2008)

scifisam said:


> I guess Al got in because they weren't expecting an attack by river.



becoming a bit of a 'brit horror' staple now, the unexpected journey by boat.

the eco-lodge place is an appropriate venue as it has its own power supply and defences (albeit very basic)


----------



## teuchter (Dec 10, 2008)

scifisam said:


> She expelled him for _singing at the breakfast table_?



I would do the same. I wouldn't trust anyone who sings at breakfast time. No morning people in my eco-lodge thank you very much.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 10, 2008)

teuchter said:


> I would do the same. I wouldn't trust anyone who sings at breakfast time. No morning people in my eco-lodge thank you very much.





I'd ask them to eat breakfast alone, though, not leave the whole place!

He was workshy for a whole, ooh thirty seconds or so. What a terrible act for someone who, like most of us, isn't used to hard physical labour.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 10, 2008)

What I would like to know is how he found his way back to the place after being dumped twenty miles away. He doesn't seem the sort who would be all that good with directions and stuff.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 10, 2008)

teuchter said:


> What I would like to know is how he found his way back to the place after being dumped twenty miles away. He doesn't seem the sort who would be all that good with directions and stuff.



He doesn't seem like the sort who'd walk more than half a mile, either. Not so difficult then. 

Being able to actually get into the compound is less likely, but, to be fair, this is Survivors we're talking about - as far as plotlines go, this is one of the most plausible so far. 

I've just remembered that one teenage girl did survive, the one with the overprotective Dad. Perhaps he's right to be so overprotective, since she seems to be all there is.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2008)

Lord of the flies theme was awesome. I was actually cheering when they got him with an arrow to the leg


Al forgave psycho bloke far too easily imo, the indolent twat.


----------



## Santino (Dec 10, 2008)

The message is: trust posh people.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 10, 2008)

scifisam said:


> She expelled him for _singing at the breakfast table_?


She's a control freak nutter who cold-bloodedly murders hungry people in the face, what do you expect?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2008)

well yeah, that little community has some real nasties brewing.

In a post apocalypse situation I wouldn't join any group larger than five. 


Also- did thingy actually sleep with the posh bloke, or was that just implied?


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 10, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Also- did thingy actually sleep with the posh bloke, or was that just implied?


They were at it like the rabbits he was so good at trapping.


----------



## Santino (Dec 10, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> well yeah, that little community has some real nasties brewing.
> 
> In a post apocalypse situation I wouldn't join any group larger than five.
> 
> ...


They woke up naked under a blanket, which is TVese for teh sex.


----------



## Sadken (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm really, really enjoying this show.  It's cheesy as hell in parts and that Sam character is incredibly annoying - i can't tell if it's the character or the actress to be honest - but, yeah: very good.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2008)

Alex B said:


> They woke up naked under a blanket, which is TVese for teh sex.



I thought she an Johnson were going to get it on


----------



## Santino (Dec 10, 2008)

I think he could make a really good Doctor.


----------



## madzone (Dec 10, 2008)

I got bored with it last night and wandered off


----------



## Sadken (Dec 10, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought she an Johnson were going to get it on



Her character does my head in.  Husband not dead 2 weeks, kid very likely to be dead, playing Johnson like a fiddle and then she knobs this bloke like it ain't no thang.  I've met women like her before.


----------



## madzone (Dec 10, 2008)

Sadken said:


> Her character does my head in. Husband not dead 2 weeks, kid very likely to be dead, playing Johnson like a fiddle and then she knobs this bloke like it ain't no thang. I've met women like her before.


 We're all like it


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2008)

and yet she had the gall to be mortally wounded when she thought johnson had boned annoying petulant sociopath-girl


----------



## Sadken (Dec 10, 2008)

You said it, love.


----------



## Sadken (Dec 10, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> and yet she had the gall to be mortally wounded when she thought johnson had boned annoying petulant sociopath-girl



You know what I mean?  Her and that Sam are definitely my two least favourite characters.  Yeah: the women.  But this is not a misogynistic thing because I fancy the one who stayed behind with Johnson.  Whose name I can't remember.  Because she is just a sex object to me.  Oh, fuck it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2008)

Sadken said:


> You know what I mean?  Her and that Sam are definitely my two least favourite characters.  Yeah: the women.  But this is not a misogynistic thing because I fancy the one who stayed behind with Johnson.  Whose name I can't remember.  Because she is just a sex object to me.  Oh, fuck it.



I thought it was interesting how quickly she won over the younger boys in the manor house. Air of matriachal authority or somesuch


----------



## Sadken (Dec 10, 2008)

Yeah, and it was a genuine curveball when it turned out Peter was not her son, but I thought last night's episode was the weakest yet because some of it was unbelievable.  Well, more so than usual anyway.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2008)

the medical girls hitherto unmentioned martial arts skills for instance


----------



## Sadken (Dec 10, 2008)

And there was no development of the shadowy agency who concocted the whole thing either.


----------



## rover07 (Dec 10, 2008)

Abby skinny-dipping and getting down to it outdoors...with a picnic, was the highlight for me. She is the sexiest of the women by far


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 10, 2008)

Love this programme! Very entertaining indeed.


And yeah, Abby is sexy.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2008)

she looks like my mum a bit but I probably still would

/oedipus


----------



## Stoat Boy (Dec 10, 2008)

Should have topped those rapists. Cannot let scum like that wander around the brave new world. It was their public duty to cut their throats.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 10, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> No.
> 
> You're looking at a chain fence, possibly topped with razor wire or a more stout metal fence. You'll be in through either with a JCB and a runup at most. Firearms are stored in much tougher buildings, walls of thick, probably reinforced, concrete. JCB and a bit of time and determination will get you in there, and you start by plucking the weapons off the guards at the gate.



yes but the gate opens you just bimble in look for the keys in office marked armoury finding ammo might be a little harder hmm try the ammo store theres usually a handy map and plenty of sign posts 
 not like theres any point giving an officer a map
 most of the tanks and stuff are quite complicated and probably not worth the hassle to shift learn to make go bang for the result you get.
 most infantry weapons are fairly simple well there would'nt be a lot of point making them complicated
 you have a shotgun I have a gpmg game over really:
0


----------



## dlx1 (Dec 10, 2008)

Stoat Boy said:


> Should have topped those rapists. Cannot let scum like that wander around the brave new world. I



yep should have left them to strave.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Dec 10, 2008)

dlx1 said:


> yep should have left them to strave.




No. Should have shot them or cut their throats. Killing them would be something that had to be done but there is no need to be sadistic about it.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 10, 2008)

Stoat Boy said:


> No. Should have shot them or cut their throats. Killing them would be something that had to be done but there is no need to be sadistic about it.



Leaving them handcuffed in the middle of nowhere was probably crueller. Easier for Greg and Anya, but crueller.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Dec 10, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Leaving them handcuffed in the middle of nowhere was probably crueller. Easier for Greg and Anya, but crueller.



Rubbish. They had electrical ties on thier hands which they would easily get off once left on their own. 

For my money in a world like that rapists have to be executed because of the threat they pose to everyone. Mad Dogs who need to be put down. Anything less and you are merely displacing the problem rather than curing it.


----------



## rover07 (Dec 10, 2008)

Stoat Boy said:


> For my money in a world like that rapists have to be executed because of the threat they pose to everyone. Mad Dogs who need to be put down. Anything less and you are merely displacing the problem rather than curing it.



But i think thats the point....they didnt kill them. Because they dont believe violence is the way forward.

Cooperation and peace, man


----------



## Stoat Boy (Dec 10, 2008)

rover07 said:


> But i think thats the point....they didnt kill them. Because they dont believe violence is the way forward.
> 
> Cooperation and peace, man




Then they deserve to die themselves. 

Co-operation means cleaning up your own mess. They had two men who had pre-planned and attempted to carry out both rape and murder. No second chances.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Dec 14, 2008)

Watched e3/4 this weekend.  Quite enjoying it


----------



## Bingo (Dec 15, 2008)

vegetable rights an peace! hahaha


----------



## spitfire (Dec 15, 2008)

likesfish said:


> yes but the gate opens you just bimble in look for the keys in office marked armoury finding ammo might be a little harder hmm try the ammo store theres usually a handy map and plenty of sign posts
> not like theres any point giving an officer a map
> most of the tanks and stuff are quite complicated and probably not worth the hassle to shift learn to make go bang for the result you get.
> most infantry weapons are fairly simple well there would'nt be a lot of point making them complicated
> ...



likesfish
speakssense


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2008)

yay, new ep soon


----------



## soulman (Dec 16, 2008)

Oooh I wander what will happen tonight then.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2008)

I think Johnson and the bird that looks like my mum will get it on


----------



## soulman (Dec 16, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I think Johnson and the bird that looks like my mum will get it on



That wouldn't surprise me she's obviously a bit of a goer.


----------



## soulman (Dec 16, 2008)

Not your mam, the character who is being portrayed as the MILF.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2008)

No mate you are right in both contexts


----------



## Balbi (Dec 16, 2008)

Go on Max. Kill him.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 16, 2008)

Keraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy


----------



## marty21 (Dec 16, 2008)

not the best tonight imo, next week looks more exciting like


----------



## rover07 (Dec 16, 2008)

Yep next week looks great, will it be an extended episode?


----------



## Stoat Boy (Dec 16, 2008)

Utter rubbish tonight and so BBC. Lesbian Doctor comes good, religious believer shown to be a nutter. Still it ticks all the right diversity boxes for the BBC.


----------



## rover07 (Dec 16, 2008)

This week was a bit predictable but a good ending again. The woman with baby saying 'just let John be'... what happens happens


----------



## Gromit (Dec 16, 2008)

Doc woman restarts heart without a defib. God i hate that! Its can't be done!

Thought a programme like this wouldn't have done that old chestnut but they did grrr


----------



## scifisam (Dec 16, 2008)

Marius said:


> Doc woman restarts heart without a defib. God i hate that! Its can't be done!
> 
> Thought a programme like this wouldn't have done that old chestnut but they did grrr



And checks the baby, finding it's breech, while sitting to the side of the pregnant woman who's got a cover over her nether regions. It's not quite Daphne in Neighbours (anyone remember that? She have birth without removing her dungarees), but it's pretty daft. 

I enjoyed the episode overall anyway. Thank God Al didn't find God, and maybe Naj grew up a bit.


----------



## soulman (Dec 16, 2008)

Well that's the religious loons done with. What's on the menu for next week then?


----------



## MikeMcc (Dec 16, 2008)

Marius said:


> Doc woman restarts heart without a defib. God i hate that! Its can't be done!
> 
> Thought a programme like this wouldn't have done that old chestnut but they did grrr


Yes it can, I seen it done!  Takes a *lot* more effort though!  (don't know if it can be done with the sort of heart complaint talked about though)


----------



## MikeMcc (Dec 16, 2008)

rover07 said:


> Yep next week looks great, will it be an extended episode?


Nah, still one hour.  From the highlights looks like they go into town get mixed up with the agency behind / working against the disease and the clowns holding the store.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 16, 2008)

MikeMcc said:


> Nah, still one hour.  From the highlights looks like they go into town get mixed up with the agency behind / working against the disease and the clowns holding the store.



looks more mad max like next week


----------



## Gromit (Dec 16, 2008)

They couldn't have been in true fibrillation then.

Honestly i used to be deal with guys who were experts in this field (researchers for increasing the effectiveness of emergency treatments, they first trialed CPR advice given over the phone by emergency services) and they stated quite categorically that despite claims to the opposite it just can't be done. All CPR does is keep the blood pumping until you can get paddles on them.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2008)

Not impressed at all. 

Next week had better be an improvement


----------



## marty21 (Dec 17, 2008)

i'm disappointed with the lack of gun play tbh, in a society with no government, no police force, all those guns on the street and that, i would have expected far more gun play as anarchy reigns, they need to get it sorted


----------



## 8den (Dec 17, 2008)

I've put my finger on why I don't like it. Episodes are a full sixty minutes long, rather than the USA imported drama of 52. I think tonights episode would have worked out alot better trimmed by 8 minutes. Get rid of one annoying sub plot. Scenes felt over long and padded, did we need so many fucking scenes with the scizo clutching his head to show his mental anguish


----------



## Mr Smin (Dec 17, 2008)

MikeMcc said:


> Yes it can, I seen it done!  Takes a *lot* more effort though!  (don't know if it can be done with the sort of heart complaint talked about though)



This. I've done it myself. Not on a bed though - that just compresses the springs rather than the patient's chest.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm quite enjoying this series actually which is quite unusual for me as I don't really watch TV

Also watched the half hour programme they had on BBC4 about the original 1970s Survivors series - I've never even heard of it before.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 17, 2008)

Stoat Boy said:


> No. Should have shot them or cut their throats. Killing them would be something that had to be done but there is no need to be sadistic about it.



At the same time, you should always make sure you have a strangler on your side.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 18, 2008)

pinkmonkey said:


> At the same time, you should always make sure you have a strangler on your side.



mmmm. A pet psycho. But You'd needs keep your eye on the cunt.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2008)

yay only two hours to go


----------



## rover07 (Dec 23, 2008)

WHAT!!!!! They cant leave it there.....


----------



## rover07 (Dec 23, 2008)

Must be another series or that was a complete waste of time... 

Why were the people in the city desperate...are they totally fucking stupid!

Out of town shopping malls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhh


----------



## yardbird (Dec 23, 2008)

Second series commissioned !


----------



## rover07 (Dec 23, 2008)

yardbird said:


> Second series commissioned !



Yes! Thank goodness. 

I dont know why im so pissed and fascinated by this... even more frustrating than Lost.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 23, 2008)

was in the pub, so missed the first 40 minutes - did i miss owt?


----------



## mysterygirl (Dec 23, 2008)

That insane Samantha Willis & newly found gun-toting 'government security' - the one in about episode two whose gang attacked our crew at the supermarket where Sarah abandoned Bob (who turned up again tonight btw) - they're looking for skilled people for the 'new world' Anya lied and said she was a student but jealous selfish sarah grassed her up so the Willis crew kidnapped Anya which culminated in Tom shooting Gavin dead, they decided to move on Naj didn't want to and ran away looking for his family, got caught by some dodgy kid-killer bloke in the city but got rescued by Al but while they were looking for him Greg got shot in the chest by that insane Samatha Willis's bully/ 'government security' bloke, and Abbey got found & kidnapped by the helicopter crew so she can be bled by the mad scientist for her antibodies.

*breathes*

Apart from that, not really, no.


----------



## yardbird (Dec 23, 2008)

mysterygirl said:


> That insane Samantha Willis & newly found gun-toting 'government security' - the one in about episode two whose gang attacked our crew at the supermarket where Sarah abandoned Bob (who turned up again tonight btw) - they're looking for skilled people for the 'new world' Anya lied and said she was a student but jealous selfish sarah grassed her up so the Willis crew kidnapped Anya which culminated in Tom shooting Gavin dead, they decided to move on Naj didn't want to and ran away looking for his family, got caught by some dodgy kid-killer bloke in the city but got rescued by Al but while they were looking for him Greg got shot in the chest by that insane Samatha Willis's bully/ 'government security' bloke, and Abbey got found & kidnapped by the helicopter crew so she can be bled by the mad scientist for her antibodies.
> 
> *breathes*
> 
> Apart from that, not really, no.



VERY good


----------



## Gromit (Dec 23, 2008)

I didn't like the way they ended it. Too many new plots and characters right when you ending a series?

I guess they were doing their best to force the powers that be to give them more shows. 6 wasn't exactly a brave commissioning.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 23, 2008)

mysterygirl said:


> That insane Samantha Willis & newly found gun-toting 'government security' - the one in about episode two whose gang attacked our crew at the supermarket where Sarah abandoned Bob (who turned up again tonight btw) - they're looking for skilled people for the 'new world' Anya lied and said she was a student but jealous selfish sarah grassed her up so the Willis crew kidnapped Anya which culminated in Tom shooting Gavin dead, they decided to move on Naj didn't want to and ran away looking for his family, got caught by some dodgy kid-killer bloke in the city but got rescued by Al but while they were looking for him Greg got shot in the chest by that insane Samatha Willis's bully/ 'government security' bloke, and Abbey got found & kidnapped by the helicopter crew so she can be bled by the mad scientist for her antibodies.
> 
> *breathes*
> 
> Apart from that, not really, no.



cheers


----------



## janeb (Dec 23, 2008)

Despite the rather hectic pace I think that was the best episode so far, proper scary at points and quite creepy, esp the guy in the disco with the kids then trying to steal Naj. all in all, nowhere as near as the original but will watch the 2nd series


----------



## mysterygirl (Dec 23, 2008)

yardbird said:


> VERY good



Why thank you, kind sir. 

*takes a bow*


----------



## cybertect (Dec 24, 2008)

janeb said:


> Despite the rather hectic pace I think that was the best episode so far, proper scary at points and quite creepy, esp the guy in the disco with the kids then trying to steal Naj.



This one was directed by Jamie Payne, who directed three episodes of the last series of Primeval.

I shall have to have words with him about some of the weird focussing (on people's ears and shoulders rather than their eyes) though


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 24, 2008)

A few good cliffhangers there. Really enjoyed this series and looking forward to the second one!

eta:

just about to post this in the anti-hero thread:


----------



## belboid (Dec 24, 2008)

more and more absurd, plot holes big enough to drive a juggernaut through sideways. but still entertaining nonsense, was quite surprised when patterson got dropped


----------



## likesfish (Dec 24, 2008)

still surprised they haven't armed themselves
 I'd be roaming round cannon armed up to the fuck.
 yes future prime minister and your thugs in a people carrier 
 say hello to my not so little friend.
  now are you going to be reasonable or are you going to be come dead


----------



## _angel_ (Dec 24, 2008)

Marius said:


> I didn't like the way they ended it. Too many new plots and characters right when you ending a series?
> 
> I guess they were doing their best to force the powers that be to give them more shows. 6 wasn't exactly a brave commissioning.



That was no kind of ending!


----------



## Giles (Dec 24, 2008)

If there was one thing that was the most unrealistic over the whole 6 episodes, it was the main characters failure to arm themselves.

Even if you assume that they are nice people, and idealistic, and so on: surely after the first time that someone else has tried to order them around on the basis that they have greater force, or weapons, you would realise that in a world full of dangerous BBC stereotypes wandering around with no law and order, guns were pretty necessary?

It will still be good if they do another series.

Giles..


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2008)

shit ending was shit


----------



## scifisam (Dec 27, 2008)

mwgdrwg said:


> A few good cliffhangers there. Really enjoyed this series and looking forward to the second one!
> 
> eta:
> 
> just about to post this in the anti-hero thread:



Yep! He's shaping up well! Doing bad things, but for good reasons. 

This is definitely the best episode so far. Lots happened, but the pace was good. It even had the classic two feints before the real deal - blonde Tom-lover nearly getting kidnapped, Anya getting kidnapped and then rescued, followed by Abby getting kidnapped by the even badder guys. 

I also liked the hypocrisy of Samantha-the-killer's 'we will not allow murder to go unpunished' and hiring Dexter knowing that he was a murderer after getting rid of Tom because he'd been in prison once, plus wondering that she might _not_ be the last of the government after all. 

Abby might find it a bit easier to remember her son's face if she carried a photo of him with her. Just how bloody dim is she? 

What Greg said about his kids makes me think that the plague probably was in other countries too. 

The ending was weirdly-edited, though - a strange jump from Greg's vision getting blurry to a blurry image of Peter and some bloke in the countryside.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2008)

I want more- why do they end these things so quickly. I need my tele speculative fiction fix.


Theres nothing till Jan 3rd when Demons airs- that had better be good *looks sternly at ITV*


----------



## ooo (Dec 27, 2008)

scifisam said:


> The ending was weirdly-edited, though - a strange jump from Greg's vision getting blurry to a blurry image of Peter and some bloke in the countryside.



I found that odd also.  I thought Greg has something to do with Abby's son?  But of course not.


----------



## Iguana (Dec 28, 2008)

ooo said:


> I found that odd also.  I thought Greg has something to do with Abby's son?  But of course not.



Yeah, initially I thought he was remembering something from his own past, but then it was about Peter?

The stupidest bit of that episode is that they have very little water.  Then some desperate city dwellers steal their water even risking waking 4 adults who might be armed so desperate are they for water.  Then Greg is really upset that they have no water.  But 20 minutes later in the same building Tom shoots at Dexter and shoots a giant water cooler and water comes spilling out.

Stupid programme.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2008)

post apocalyptic drama in nonsensical shocka.

It was for the visuals ennit.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 29, 2008)

Iguana said:


> Yeah, initially I thought he was remembering something from his own past, but then it was about Peter?
> 
> The stupidest bit of that episode is that they have very little water.  Then some desperate city dwellers steal their water even risking waking 4 adults who might be armed so desperate are they for water.  Then Greg is really upset that they have no water.  But 20 minutes later in the same building Tom shoots at Dexter and shoots a giant water cooler and water comes spilling out.
> 
> Stupid programme.



Well, they might not have known the water cooler was there. 

Given that this is England, though, I shouldn't imagine water would be a huge problem - even clean water; just raid camping shops and the like for purifying stuff.


----------



## dlx1 (Jan 3, 2010)

> Survivors
> New series
> 
> Tuesday 12 January
> ...


 its back


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 3, 2010)

dlx1 said:


> its back



Nice!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2010)

Excellent


----------



## scifisam (Jan 12, 2010)

Are they going to spend the _entire_ episode under the rubble?


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Jan 12, 2010)

Best place for 'em


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 13, 2010)

I enjoyed that.  It's still not as good as I remember the original to be (I know it will be dated now, but in terms of impact at the time: I remembered it for years), but better than _Give Me A Facelift While I Cook My Mum's Recipe In A New House In The Sun Which Needs A Good Clean And I Sing About It Until You Vote Me Out_.


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2010)

I'm sure it completely contradicted itself at one moment, and one of tem really should have died under that rubble.  _And_ they really shouldn't have a hope in hell of ever finding Abbie, and they'd know it, but what the hell. Other than the rapist being absolutely appaling acting that was jolly good fun.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 13, 2010)

belboid said:


> _And_ they really shouldn't have a hope in hell of ever finding Abbie, and they'd know it, but what the hell.


What you say is true. However, in fiction you can have Quest plots. Even futile ones.  Internally, the characters need a purpose.  And structurally, the narrative needs one.  (We haven't met anyone for weeks, and we're keeping chickens wouldn't sustain much dramatic tension for long, even if you're Ibsen).

So I'm happy for it to b a bit silly.


----------



## hektik (Jan 13, 2010)

I missed the first 20 minutes or so of the episode: how did they get under the rubble? and how did sarah get to be in that boardroom with that guy?


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> (We haven't met anyone for weeks, and we're keeping chickens wouldn't sustain much dramatic tension for long, even if you're Ibsen).



Jill Archers wants words with you...


----------



## Sadken (Jan 13, 2010)

Wow, I didn't realise it was a whole year between series!  That really has surprised me.  I fucking love this show and I especially love Max Beesley doing those jobcentre ads in the EXACT SAME voice he uses to play nutcase Tom in this show.  It makes me lol every time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 13, 2010)

Talking of the jobcentre, and Survivors I've got the new ep queued up to watch after I have signed on.
Then I'll be back to this thread with a veritable pearl necklace of wisdom.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 13, 2010)

It was very poor. I guess in terms of the 'wham, bamm, thank you Mamm' style of TV so beloved of the MTV generation it hit all the right buttons  but had so many huge holes in it that its bordering on the farcical.

OK, to keep disesase down in the part of town you are planning to live in you decide to burn down the local hospital. Dont sit right with me (you empty the building of bodies and burn those seperately) but I can buy into it just. 

But without first emptying it of all the medicines in the pharmacy ? 

Yes, I am rather a saddo when it comes to post apoc stuff and would even plead guilty to bordering on the obsessive but come on, surely the BBC could do better than this with the funds available and the sheer magnitude of the story line ?


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 13, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> It was very poor. I guess in terms of the 'wham, bamm, thank you Mamm' style of TV so beloved of the MTV generation it hit all the right buttons  but had so many huge holes in it that its bordering on the farcical.
> 
> OK, to keep disesase down in the part of town you are planning to live in you decide to burn down the local hospital. Dont sit right with me (you empty the building of bodies and burn those seperately) but I can buy into it just.
> 
> ...



You noticed that too!

I'm a bit sceptical another virus mutation will "wipe out all the remaining humans" since there's no cities and hardly any big gatherings now, but I suppose if that entire mosque could die in the same three seconds anything can happen.


----------



## Sadken (Jan 13, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> I guess in terms of the 'wham, bamm, thank you Mamm' style of TV so beloved of the MTV generation



Lol, "the MTV generation".


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 13, 2010)

Nobody ever does anything remotely sensible in pos apoc stories. Patterson Joseph in series 1, he's all tooled up with supplies and a decent motor, hard focused man- he's doing it right.

Then he throws it all away to hook up with a mum, a psycho, a playboy useless twat and a Doctor lady (he should have just hooked up with her and fucked off all that dead wood. The fool)


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2010)

oh there are massive holes in it, but plenty of the greatest films and tv have similar such holes (who killed the chauffeur?). How come the 'first' victims were in China, but it then hit everyone else at exactly the same time? Deeply dodgy, tho possibly explaionable with ten minutes of tedious exposition.  Likewise the hospital (and i immediately thought a similar thing) - but maybe they had already raided the cupboards for everything they could find and use.  Without access to the internet/decent medical knowledge most people wouldn't know what the hell all those drugs were, and they'd be a sod to store safely, so it could well be best to simply get rid of them. As  for moving the dead bodies - depends how many of them there are and how many of you, given the risks of them having all sorts of nasty diseases still, would it be worth the risk to those few (non-psychotic) survivors?  Maybe not.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 13, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> You noticed that too!




The first thing any well meaning group of survivors would be looking to do, beyond tooling up and driving around in souped up cars with the heads of your enemies displayed on large poles at the front, is get into local chemists and hospitals and secure all medicines, especially stuff like penicillin.

OK, they turn up and find the place on fire for no obvious reason. Fine. You can just about accept that. But then to see one of them hunting through packed shelves of all sorts of pills and potions and then to find out that the place had been torched deliberately and for the best (!) of reasons, well thats stretching the artistic licence to breaking point.


----------



## Sadken (Jan 13, 2010)

Yeah, this is strap in for the ride and suspend your disbelief stuff; it's the only way to enjoy it.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Jan 13, 2010)

I felt sorry for the snotty blonde cow when she was being roughed up by that ogre. 
Only momentarily though as I'm a cold hard bitch as well.


----------



## Sadken (Jan 13, 2010)

Bit gutted Al didn't die, tbh.  Thought that would've been bold.


----------



## likesfish (Jan 13, 2010)

still think just about any firearm is easy to get hold of than a pump action shotgun in the UK at the mo.
 but none of the others have quite the same dramtic noise as racking a pumpaction.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 13, 2010)

belboid said:


> How come the 'first' victims were in China


I'm not sure you're meant to believe that bloke's version of events.


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 13, 2010)

And can we stop with the bloody flashbacks, unless of course the jilted husband is going to find his ex-wife's new boyfriend in the bunker injecting stuff into Abbey.... and get the chance to kick his arse again after preaching the non-violence path to his sheep and banishing Max. 

I miss the original Abbey, she was hardcore.


----------



## BlackArab (Jan 13, 2010)

Send the dense but pretty woman on her own to negotiate with the local hardman, didnt see that result coming a mile off....


----------



## scifisam (Jan 13, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> And can we stop with the bloody flashbacks, unless of course the jilted husband is going to find his ex-wife's new boyfriend in the bunker injecting stuff into Abbey.... and get the chance to kick his arse again after preaching the non-violence path to his sheep and banishing Max.
> 
> I miss the original Abbey, she was hardcore.



It's the same Abby.


----------



## Sadken (Jan 13, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> Send the dense but pretty woman on her own to negotiate with the local hardman, didnt see that result coming a mile off....



That was the point, no?


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 13, 2010)

scifisam said:


> It's the same Abby.



From the original series.


(it's up on YouTube )


----------



## scifisam (Jan 13, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> From the original series.
> 
> 
> (it's up on YouTube )



Oh, I getcha.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 13, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> And can we stop with the bloody flashbacks.


Did he have a back story before?  I'm sure he didn't.  Anyway, I prefer to have at least one enigma.  This is too much information.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 13, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Did he have a back story before?  I'm sure he didn't.  Anyway, I prefer to have at least one enigma.  This is too much information.



Sort of. 

In the original he flys back in from Holland by Helicopter and finds his wife dead and makes some sort of comment about how he feared she would have survived or something similar and then buggers off in a MG.

He was a stroppy bastard but very much the getting things done character as well have the one with the real vision about what the potential future could look like.


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 13, 2010)

SPOILERISH






The digging them out bit was hopeless. You'd estimate that from the time it takes Tom to reach them they are no more than 20 - 30 feet from where they are digging. So why can't they hear each other when the reluctant doc is talking to will he won't he snuff it Al, or vice versa when their rescuers are calling to them? 

And the rubble was straight off a skip. Why in a modern building were they suddenly buried under Victorian, or Edwardian looking house bricks?

This catastrophe needs to go cosy. I need to be able to suspend my disbelief.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 13, 2010)

I see sucking chest wounds are now totally survivable and rather than air filling the chest cavity and leading to asphyxiation, you can scramble about to scare feral kids.

Riiight


----------



## scifisam (Jan 13, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I see sucking chest wounds are now totally survivable and rather than air filling the chest cavity and leading to asphyxiation, you can scramble about to scare feral kids.
> 
> Riiight



I guess the writers are in a bit of a difficult situation. They want to have drama and tension by making the character severely injured, and they need to do it in a way that's highly visible for the TV and is preferably something that the audience will know is potentially fatal without having to be told that in words. But they also need the character to be able to do stuff before too long because it'd be dead boring otherwise. There aren't many injuries which fit the bill.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 13, 2010)

I didn't spot any of the holes, except that they left the drugs in the pharmacy which nobody would ever do.  Not that keen on the Lost-esque codes and postcards.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 13, 2010)

scifisam said:


> I guess the writers are in a bit of a difficult situation. They want to have drama and tension by making the character severely injured, and they need to do it in a way that's highly visible for the TV and is preferably something that the audience will know is potentially fatal without having to be told that in words. But they also need the character to be able to do stuff before too long because it'd be dead boring otherwise. There aren't many injuries which fit the bill.



Of course you wouldn't get the same tension from a more realistic thing like 'This gunshot wound to the arm is infected, we need to raid a hospital for penicillin'

But really. Patterson scurrying around with an open wound ON HIS FUCKING CHEST?

The man would have died through inability to breathe long before now.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> In the original [...]


I meant in the remake.


----------



## likesfish (Jan 14, 2010)

but he's hard.

The idea theres a load of the supposidly elite hiding in a bunker somewhere ready to come back and take control

 achieve what exactly our elite are lawyers and accountants be about as much use after the apcolaypse as a choccy fireguard
 ok they may have a platoon of squaddies to do there bidding but not for long
  hiding in a bunker is not going to inspire anyone to want to do there bidding.
 unless they can rig up power clean water etc etc not really going to impress anyone


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

likesfish said:


> hiding in a bunker is not going to inspire anyone to want to do there bidding.


In fairness, the characters usually _don't_ want to do their bidding, and see quite quickly that they're baduns.

Abby was immediately suspicious.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 14, 2010)

8115 said:


> I didn't spot any of the holes, except that they left the drugs in the pharmacy which nobody would ever do.  Not that keen on the Lost-esque codes and postcards.





I think this is the problem for the BBC. They are trying to compete with the US productions such as 'Lost' and '24' and are just not able to do so for all sorts of reasons.

And 'Survivors', with its pandemic driven plot line, is especially not the vehichle for them to use to try and emulate those big budget US shows. 

This could have been a really good character driven drama and there are hints of it with the Max Beesley character offering all sorts of possibilities but instead it started out as a box ticking exercise for the BBC in terms of the castings and has just turned into, well nothing more than mildly interesting dross.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> I think this is the problem for the BBC. They are trying to compete with the US productions such as 'Lost' and '24' and are just not able to do so for all sorts of reasons.
> 
> And 'Survivors', with its pandemic driven plot line, is especially not the vehichle for them to use to try and emulate those big budget US shows.
> 
> This could have been a really good character driven drama and there are hints of it with the Max Beesley character offering all sorts of possibilities but instead it started out as a box tickin*g exercise for the BBC in terms of the castings *and has just turned into, well nothing more than mildly interesting dross.




I've heard this leveled at the show before in terms of 'It looks like the cast are from a Guardian supplement'

The casting accurately reflects the demographic make-up of modern Britain. That's just the truth.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 14, 2010)

An excellent opener to the second season. 

Even if I am still reminded of Day of the Triffids, 28 Days Later and countless other end of world scenarioss


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Of course you wouldn't get the same tension from a more realistic thing like 'This gunshot wound to the arm is infected, we need to raid a hospital for penicillin'
> 
> But really. Patterson scurrying around with an open wound ON HIS FUCKING CHEST?
> 
> The man would have died through inability to breathe long before now.



It is ridiculous, but it's not entirely down to the writers being stupid. 

Can you or anyone else suggest an injury that would fit the bill? Dramatic, visual, potentially fatal, but still allows the character to do some stuff and recover quickly. I ask because there's a story of mine that would benefit from something like that. I know films and movies very often have the character shot in the upper arm for the reasons I've given, but it's not a serious enough injury for me. 



DotCommunist said:


> I've heard this leveled at the show before in terms of 'It looks like the cast are from a Guardian supplement'
> 
> The casting accurately reflects the demographic make-up of modern Britain. That's just the truth.



Yup.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

I'd go with diabetes. Can be extremely debilitating and lead to death, but with insulin the patient recovers from hypo quickly.  This does require writing in the characters condition at some point before the drama happens though.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd go with diabetes. Can be extremely debilitating and lead to death, but with insulin the patient recovers from hypo quickly.  This does require writing in the characters condition at some point before the drama happens though.



It's not visually dramatic, though. I was thinking of an injury rather than an illness. I guess some head wounds might fit the bill.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The casting accurately reflects the demographic make-up of modern Britain. That's just the truth.


We're all middle class twats?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> We're all middle class twats?



The indian fella is upper class, and the brit-asian kid is solidly w/c.

You massive racist


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> I think this is the problem for the BBC. They are trying to compete with the US productions such as 'Lost' and '24' and are just not able to do so for all sorts of reasons.
> 
> And 'Survivors', with its pandemic driven plot line, is especially not the vehichle for them to use to try and emulate those big budget US shows.
> 
> This could have been a really good character driven drama and there are hints of it with the Max Beesley character offering all sorts of possibilities but instead it started out as a box ticking exercise for the BBC in terms of the castings and has just turned into, well nothing more than mildly interesting dross.



yeah, I've noticed a lot of the beeb trying to compete with flashy US shows. They're becoming more and more like music videos. God I sound old. 

Maybe one day the tide will turn back, there's only SO fast and flashy something can get -- surely??


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

scifisam said:


> It's not visually dramatic, though. I was thinking of an injury rather than an illness. I guess some head wounds might fit the bill.



well, have you seen a sweating barely conscious wreck who needs his insulin/needs some lucozade? You can make that dramatic just by describing it in detail.

Although a head wound might well fit the bill for your purposes, I always worry that I won't get that right and the reader will be left thinking I'm a prick.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The indian fella is upper class, and the brit-asian kid is solidly w/c.
> 
> You massive racist


Bollocsks.  They're all middle class.

Abby - middle class.
Patterson Chest Wound Superman - Middle class
Lesbo Doctor Hottie - Middle Class
Sad Blonde Girl - Middle class
Asian playboy - Middle class
Asian kid - middle class

Did no working class people survive this virus?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

conveniently excluding ex-jailbound psycho who is definitely w/c. Cos he was in jail


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> conveniently excluding ex-jailbound psycho who is definitely w/c. Cos he was in jail


No, he went home to his Mum's once - it was a middle class neighbourhood.  He talks posh, too.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

That's just cos the actor doesn't know how to portray a muthafuckin G properly. On paper he is blates a w/c sociopath.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> That's just cos the actor doesn't know how to portray a muthafuckin G properly. On paper he is blates a w/c sociopath.


ON TV he's a posho.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2010)

scifisam said:


> It is ridiculous, but it's not entirely down to the writers being stupid.
> 
> Can you or anyone else suggest an injury that would fit the bill? Dramatic, visual, potentially fatal, but still allows the character to do some stuff and recover quickly. I ask because there's a story of mine that would benefit from something like that. I know films and movies very often have the character shot in the upper arm for the reasons I've given, but it's not a serious enough injury for me.


It's *possible* that the bullet he took in the chest was deflected/slowed by his ribs, so he wouldn't *necessarily* have received lung damage. Deflections often depend on the angle the bullets strikes, and most of all the calibre of the weapon used.
Such a would would bleed like fuck to start with, but if nothing vital was punctured, the bleeding would slow/stop with compression. It'd also hurt like buggery, but pain, like most things, can be tolerated if you need to.
Upper arm wounds in films are a go-er because it's the place where you've enough muscle mass that it's more believable that you'd get a "flesh wound" rather than a bone-breaker or artery-shearer. It's the same reason leg shots to heroes in films are almost always thigh shots.

Apart from that, everyone knows that the Marquis de Carabas has extraordinary death-defying powers!


----------



## marty21 (Jan 14, 2010)

is it just the UK who have the virus in this show? is the rest of the world safe?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

marty21 said:


> is it just the UK who have the virus in this show? is the rest of the world safe?


It's the whole world.  The opening credits are supposed to tell you that.


----------



## marty21 (Jan 14, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> It's the whole world.  The opening credits are supposed to tell you that.



I'd forgotten that spreading virus thingie at the beginning


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> That's just cos the actor doesn't know how to portray a muthafuckin G properly. On paper he is blates a w/c sociopath.



You missed the Max Beesley character raiding a cellar for claret and then beating an urchin for saying 'them corpses'. Stephen Fry could have had his part.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

marty21 said:


> I'd forgotten that spreading virus thingie at the beginning


In the original series it was a dropped test tube.  Hope that isn't a spoiler...


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> well, have you seen a sweating barely conscious wreck who needs his insulin/needs some lucozade? You can make that dramatic just by describing it in detail.
> 
> Although a head wound might well fit the bill for your purposes, I always worry that I won't get that right and the reader will be left thinking I'm a prick.



Sweating and so on isn't visually exciting. And it's still not an injury. 



danny la rouge said:


> Bollocsks.  They're all middle class.
> 
> Abby - middle class.
> Patterson Chest Wound Superman - Middle class
> ...



Why is the blonde girl middle class? And Patterson - what are his MC credentials? And the Asian kid's council estate didn't look particularly posh. 



ViolentPanda said:


> It's *possible* that the bullet he took in the chest was deflected/slowed by his ribs, so he wouldn't *necessarily* have received lung damage. Deflections often depend on the angle the bullets strikes, and most of all the calibre of the weapon used.
> Such a would would bleed like fuck to start with, but if nothing vital was punctured, the bleeding would slow/stop with compression. It'd also hurt like buggery, but pain, like most things, can be tolerated if you need to.
> Upper arm wounds in films are a go-er because it's the place where you've enough muscle mass that it's more believable that you'd get a "flesh wound" rather than a bone-breaker or artery-shearer. It's the same reason leg shots to heroes in films are almost always thigh shots.
> 
> Apart from that, everyone knows that the Marquis de Carabas has extraordinary death-defying powers!



Hmm, that is useful information, thanks. 

I think I missed the bit with puss in boots.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Why is the blonde girl middle class?


Her accent.




> And Patterson - what are his MC credentials?


The flash back to middle class family life.  "How was the office, darling?"  "Same old, same old.  Going out to a top restaurant with your fancy man?"



> And the Asian kid's council estate didn't look particularly posh.


I can't remember, to be fair.  OK, so 1 maybe.  Out of all the characters who were ever on it.  I'd say this virus disproportionately saves middle class people.


----------



## marty21 (Jan 14, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> In the original series it was a dropped test tube.  Hope that isn't a spoiler...



can't remember the original series, I think it was on the beeb, and dad controlled the channels we watched then, so if he didn't want to watch it, neither did we


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 14, 2010)

Is it a good time to mention that I quite fancy Julie Graham?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2010)

Mr Moose said:


> Is it a good time to mention that I quite fancy Julie Graham?


Everyone does, surely?


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 14, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Everyone does, surely?



You'd have thought so.


----------



## marty21 (Jan 14, 2010)

Mr Moose said:


> Is it a good time to mention that I quite fancy Julie Graham?



I do too, I  saw her in a cafe near me recently, she smiled at me  she had a little kid with her, she is rather hawt in real life too


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 14, 2010)

Oh do fuck off with this idea that the cast reflects the make up of modern Britain.

You TUW's cannot have it both ways. On the one hand when ever somebody moans about too many immigrants we get all sorts of 'facts' about what a small percentage of this country is non-white blah blah blah. In fact if we accept that less than 10% of this country is non-white that would mean this main group would have, at most, 1 non-white character. Rather than 50%. 

And yet when the BBC cast non-white faces in every TV programe they show, even the ones set in the 19th century, we are meant to believe its an accurate representation of how things are ?

Pull the other one.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Oh do fuck off with this idea that the cast reflects the make up of modern Britain.
> 
> You TUW's cannot have it both ways. On the one hand when ever somebody moans about too many immigrants we get all sorts of 'facts' about what a small percentage of this country is non-white blah blah blah. In fact if we accept that less than 10% of this country is non-white that would mean this main group would have, at most, 1 non-white character. Rather than 50%.
> 
> ...




It does you know. Any reasonably sized city will have a fair chunk of people who are black, asian or *gasp* a working mum.

Whatever hillbilly enclave you have retreated to bears no resemblance to anywhere that _gets shit done_ in this country.


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Oh do fuck off with this idea that the cast reflects the make up of modern Britain.
> 
> You TUW's cannot have it both ways. On the one hand when ever somebody moans about too many immigrants we get all sorts of 'facts' about what a small percentage of this country is non-white blah blah blah. In fact if we accept that less than 10% of this country is non-white that would mean this main group would have, at most, 1 non-white character. Rather than 50%.
> 
> ...



Try not to be such a knob. 

This objection is the same as when a disabled person appears in any open role ln TV. There must be some evil PC plot involved.

Tell you what, go protest balamory until they run all the non-white and non-heterosexual characters out of town.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 14, 2010)

Mr Moose said:


> Tell you what, go protest balamory until they run all the non-white and non-heterosexual characters out of town.




Wtf ? I know old Plummy is a bit on the camp side and that bloke who wears skirts all the time is a bit suspect but none of them are gay as such.

Unless of course you adhere to sterotypes.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> It does you know. Any reasonably sized city will have a fair chunk of people who are black, asian or *gasp* a working mum.
> 
> Whatever hillbilly enclave you have retreated to bears no resemblance to anywhere that _gets shit done_ in this country.



Which city has a 'fair sized chunk' of 50-50 then ? Leciester maybe but any where else ?

And who bought working mums into the equation ?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

people who get shit done live cheek by jowl with many different nations. It is simply a result of globalised capital operating on labour movement. Whiners sit in m/c enclaves crying into their tea about the state of Britain while the others actually do shit


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2010)

Mr Moose said:


> Is it a good time to mention that I quite fancy Julie Graham?



Ah, but have you got the "Bonekickers" box set so that you can ogle her cleavage (as I've heard that some vile perverts have )?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Which city has a 'fair sized chunk' of 50-50 then ? Leciester maybe but any where else ?
> 
> And who bought working mums into the equation ?



Places where capital operates tovaritsch. They aint your nicey-nice whiteville. Cos modern Britain is not made that way. Much to your chagrin.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Oh do fuck off with this idea that the cast reflects the make up of modern Britain.
> 
> You TUW's cannot have it both ways. On the one hand when ever somebody moans about too many immigrants we get all sorts of 'facts' about what a small percentage of this country is non-white blah blah blah. In fact if we accept that less than 10% of this country is non-white that would mean this main group would have, at most, 1 non-white character. Rather than 50%.
> 
> ...



Why, will it cause you to explode? If not, I'm not pulling it.

bear in mind that the series starts in a city (which we're supposed to assume is London). Now, I don't know whether you're aware of this, but the percentage of "non-whites" to whites in London is about 70/30, not 90/10.
Don't let inconvenient demographic facts get in the way of your moronic "the BBC's casting policy is political correctness gone mad, I tells thee" rant, though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> It does you know. Any reasonably sized city will have a fair chunk of people who are black, asian or *gasp* a working mum.


Yup.
Urban areas draw immigrants. That's been the case since at least the 10th century in Britain, probably longer.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2010)

Mr Moose said:


> Try not to be such a knob.


That's nigh on impossible for the Stoat, I'm afraid.


> This objection is the same as when a disabled person appears in any open role ln TV. There must be some evil PC plot involved.


And woe betide any crip playing a crip character, instead of letting a wholesome and decent able-bodied actor try out his limp!


> Tell you what, go protest balamory until they run all the non-white and non-heterosexual characters out of town.


He's probably got the hots for one of the ethnic minority characters.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 14, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yup.
> Urban areas draw immigrants. That's been the case since at least the 10th century in Britain, probably longer.



Innit, perhaps Stoat Boy would be happier if the cast consisted of a Huguenot, a Norman, a Welsh, a Dane and a Jew.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> people who get shit done live cheek by jowl with many different nations. It is simply a result of globalised capital operating on labour movement. Whiners sit in m/c enclaves crying into their tea about the state of Britain while the others actually do shit



What would you know about doing shit ? Apart from signing on ? Or watching Mama Mia with your Mum. 

And lets take the figures bandied about on here. 70-30 split between white and non-whites in your average British city ( I still think thats wrong but lets accept this). Still makes the casting wrong.


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 14, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ah, but have you got the "Bonekickers" box set so that you can ogle her cleavage (as I've heard that some vile perverts have )?



I didn't say she was always in watchable tv.


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> a bit suspect...



'scuse me?


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Which city has a 'fair sized chunk' of 50-50 then ? Leciester maybe but any where else ?



Why does it have to be some kind of percentage game? What terrible thing will happen to this fair isle should the 'quota' be over-fulfilled?

There are millions of non-white tv licence fee payers in this country. The BBC should reflect their experiences to the best of its ability.

I like the characters in survivors its just the current dopey plot that needs protesting.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> What would you know about doing shit ? Apart from signing on ? Or watching Mama Mia with your Mum.
> 
> And lets take the figures bandied about on here. 70-30 split between white and non-whites in your average British city ( I still think thats wrong but lets accept this). Still makes the casting wrong.



You are a homophobe, a Catholic and a right winger. I think you can divine your fate ctr.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2010)

Mr Moose said:


> I didn't say she was always in watchable tv.



Bonekickers was watchable, it was just unintentionally amusing too!


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 14, 2010)

marty21 said:


> I do too, I  saw her in a cafe near me recently, she smiled at me  she had a little kid with her, she is rather hawt in real life too



I think we need a smiley for that gesture Vic Reeves makes when he rubs his legs with the palm of his hands.

You don't think she was thinking 'who's this pervy urb?'


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> What would you know about doing shit ? Apart from signing on ? Or watching Mama Mia with your Mum.
> 
> And lets take the figures bandied about on here. 70-30 split between white and non-whites in your average British city ( I still think thats wrong but lets accept this). Still makes the casting wrong.



I said "in London", you dufus.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> You are a homophobe, a Catholic and a right winger. I think you can divine your fate ctr.



Will his fate be to die nailed upside down on a St. Andrew cross, with a crucifix dildo up his arse? Or is that how Ratzinger sleeps? I always get them mixed up.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> You are a homophobe, a Catholic and a right winger.


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 14, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


>




It's not a great retort SB. 

It's a show with a billion fans. Enjoying it wouldn't mean you've sucked 'the man's' old fella.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2010)

Blonde girl's accent is just southern England. It's not posh. Working in an office definitely doesn't mean you're middle class these days. 



Stoat Boy said:


> Oh do fuck off with this idea that the cast reflects the make up of modern Britain.
> 
> You TUW's cannot have it both ways. On the one hand when ever somebody moans about too many immigrants we get all sorts of 'facts' about what a small percentage of this country is non-white blah blah blah. In fact if we accept that less than 10% of this country is non-white that would mean this main group would have, at most, 1 non-white character. Rather than 50%.
> 
> ...



50%? Where'd you get that from?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 15, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Blonde girl's accent is just southern England. It's not posh.


It sounds like an affluent accent to me.



> Working in an office definitely doesn't mean you're middle class these days.


His was a middle class job.  His house was middle class.  His kitchen was middle class.  His clothes were middle class.  His children were middle class.  His wife was middle class.  His wife's boyfriend was middle class.  

Look, I'm not saying this makes him a bad person.   I'm just saying that the vast majority - maybe even all - of those who survived this virus were middle class.


----------



## marty21 (Jan 15, 2010)

what about billy big potatoes who runs things in the city, has all the jcbs, and the nice gaff, he appears w/c to me , although in the post virus world - it's a different class system yes?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 15, 2010)

marty21 said:


> what about billy big potatoes who runs things in the city, has all the jcbs, and the nice gaff, he appears w/c to me , although in the post virus world - it's a different class system yes?


JCB Sex Attack Man?  I think he was a business man before the virus.  Owned a building firm.


----------



## marty21 (Jan 15, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> JCB Sex Attack Man?  I think he was a business man before the virus.  Owned a building firm.



that's the fellah, struck me as w/c made good, (in a financial sense, not that w/c = bad)


----------



## scifisam (Jan 15, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> It sounds like an affluent accent to me.
> 
> His was a middle class job.  His house was middle class.  His kitchen was middle class.  His clothes were middle class.  His children were middle class.  His wife was middle class.  His wife's boyfriend was middle class.
> 
> Look, I'm not saying this makes him a bad person.   I'm just saying that the vast majority - maybe even all - of those who survived this virus were middle class.



I think you're mistaking 'from the SouthEast of England' with middle class. What was his job, then? 

Apart from the ones whose lives we saw before the virus, it's pretty hard to say what class anyone there is, really. Or rather was.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 15, 2010)

marty21 said:


> that's the fellah, struck me as w/c made good, (in a financial sense, not that w/c = bad)


Even if that's his back story, someone who has made good in a financial sense is by definition middle class now.  (Your class isn't defined by what your Dad did, or your first job after school, but by your position now).   The Guilty Firestarters, I'm pretty sure, said he owned a building firm, 'before'.  That makes him middle class.  Even if he had been a 'Flamboyant Business Man' before the virus.  (There were hints that this MO may not have been new to him).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 15, 2010)

scifisam said:


> I think you're mistaking 'from the SouthEast of England' with middle class.


To be honest, I thought they were all in Manchester, but never mind.  The clues about Patterson we picked up in the flashback were: his home, kitchen, clothes, the restaurant, everything about him.



> What was his job, then?


It didn't say. I'd guess something managerial.

What do you think?  He was a brickie?


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 15, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Oh do fuck off with this idea that the cast reflects the make up of modern Britain.
> 
> You TUW's cannot have it both ways. On the one hand when ever somebody moans about too many immigrants we get all sorts of 'facts' about what a small percentage of this country is non-white blah blah blah. In fact if we accept that less than 10% of this country is non-white that would mean this main group would have, at most, 1 non-white character. Rather than 50%.
> 
> ...



It was supposed to be set in London I think - so they probably underdid the % of black and asian characters, actually. Something like EastEnders ought to prob have more as well.


----------



## belboid (Jan 15, 2010)

the asian kid and playboy are deffo from manchester


----------



## scifisam (Jan 15, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> To be honest, I thought they were all in Manchester, but never mind.



I think it was supposed to be set in Manchester - if it was in London then the kid would have had a London accent - but most of the characters weren't from round there. That _was_ stupid. 



> The clues about Patterson we picked up in the flashback were: his home, kitchen, clothes, the restaurant, everything about him.
> 
> It didn't say. I'd guess something managerial.
> 
> What do you think?  He was a brickie?



Well, presuming flashbacks are accurate rather than false memories, his home looked quite nice but so do the homes of many working class people. Working in an office doesn't mean managerial - if all white collar jobs are middle class (and owning a building firm is middle class too) then there are very few working class people in the UK at all, so it'd be no wonder if there weren't many working class people among the survivors.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 15, 2010)

Ok I'm not sure where it's supposed to be set now, but there only seem to be a few characters with discernably northern accents. It might be Manchester.Tbh any city it's set in is unlikely to be representative of the UK as a whole in terms of ethnic minorities though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 15, 2010)

scifisam said:


> (and owning a building firm is middle class too)


If this is a novel idea to you, then we're clearly talking about different things.  Which I suspected anyway. 

As for "all white collar workers", that isn't anything I said.  The implication of the flashback scenes were that Greg and his wife were young professionals, not call centre workers or bank tellers.  They were textbook Observer supplement target market.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 15, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> Ok I'm not sure where it's supposed to be set now,


They never actually say which city they're travelling into, just "The City".  Maybe it's different ones.  In the first series, Abby was close enough to her son's outward bound course in the Lakes to drive there in a couple of hours, though.


----------



## belboid (Jan 15, 2010)

thinking back, at the beginning of the first series Najid was attempting to get to his extended family in Blackburn

e2a:  and it is filmed in Manchester


----------



## scifisam (Jan 15, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> If this is a novel idea to you, then we're clearly talking about different things.  Which I suspected anyway.
> 
> As for "all white collar workers", that isn't anything I said.  The implication of the flashback scenes were that Greg and his wife were young professionals, not call centre workers or bank tellers.  They were textbook Observer supplement target market.



Meh. We have different definitions of middle class, I guess. Who'da thunk it?


----------



## dlx1 (Jan 15, 2010)

_Sorry, this programme is not available to watch again._ 

last one of Survivors Series 1

why Tom Price got to leave the group don't remember who he killed.
Has he got to leave to make more Jobsever adds


----------



## belboid (Jan 15, 2010)

he shot someone from that community the last government minister had set up.  can't quite remember why tho, just to get out i think


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 15, 2010)

belboid said:


> can't quite remember why tho, just to get out i think


The bloke was an ex screw, who guessed his Past.  ("I can smell convict all over you").  Psycho Jobserver Adman didn't actually have to kill him, but wanted his past covered up so Lesbo Doctor Hottie wouldn't find out.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 15, 2010)

Can't recall what happened to obvious-newlabour-analogy community did. Are we to take it they are still thier, being dicks?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 15, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Can't recall what happened to obvious-newlabour-analogy community did. Are we to take it they are still thier, being dicks?


Yes, still there for those who are mad for executions and scoldings, awaiting future clash with Abby's Gang.


----------



## dlx1 (Jan 15, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> ("I can smell convict all over you").


 remember that now.
thanks both  belboid  / danny la rouge


----------



## dlx1 (Jan 19, 2010)

Survivors not on tonight


----------



## marty21 (Jan 19, 2010)

dlx1 said:


> Survivors not on tonight



they didn't survive?


----------



## belboid (Jan 27, 2010)

so, is everyone thinking that last nights was so bad they dont want to comment on it, as that would be an admission they watched it?


fucking stupid episode.  Greg cant drive but can run around like a looney. Abby can basically stroll out of a high security facility.  Brilliant 'government' types are actually too fucking dumb to think 'I wonder if Abby will follow all those signs saying 'Abby, this way?'  

And when did the kid learn to fly?


----------



## hektik (Jan 27, 2010)

i missed it last night, as I was late back from work, and missed the first 10 minutes (and forgot to sky+). am going to watch on iplayer at lunchtime. you are not filling me with anticipation.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 27, 2010)

Watched it. Just sighed in disbelief and mild annoyance because it could have been so so good.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Jan 27, 2010)

It wasn't the best episode last night and I see at the end that next week they have the former government minister and those fruitspuds that they escaped from in the first series back. I was hoping that were going to go somewhere else and have completely different adventures not just reruns of what has already happened.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 27, 2010)

Dull - quite an achievement for a series like this.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 27, 2010)

It was OK. Naj is a bit annoying though


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Jan 27, 2010)

This murdering Manc character is getting on my nerves. One minute he's like a D'Artagnan character "All for one and one for all" and then he's holding up a load of people with a shotgun mugging them for all their food


----------



## hektik (Jan 27, 2010)

watched it over the lunchtime...it was average, bordering on stupid and dull. It's OK, I guess, but my expectations of what a series can do, and what it should be about have been raised by The Wire. Actually, not even the wire: Lost etc even rose the bar, by having long running stories spread across the whole series, with the different groups being introduced before they actually "interact" with the main group...

My main problems with the series is that it is pretty tedious: new characters are introduced for an episode, then are written out at the end of that episode once they've moved the plot on. The characters are incredibly cliched, and the acting fairly wooden so that the bad scientist guy even speaks in a malevolent growl when he is calming his wife down.

The plots are also fairly unbelievable: OK, there has to be some suspension of disbelief, but some of the plot holes, such as abby being able to escape, and they dont even realise that she has gone (and then cant even find her that quickly - they have cars, and helicopters - she is on foot, in robes!) that it stetches that disbelief to stupendous levels. 

I guess I am comparing the series to what it could have been: they could easily have stretched the abby missing storyline over the whole series, with the resolution of them finding each other at the end of the series or something. Instead, it's almost as if the writers got bored with the idea, so decided to end it as quickly as possible. 

The bar for TV series has been raised by american studios, who have shown there is a mass audience who are more than capable of handling and enjoying multi-stranded, open-ended storylines that last for the whole series (or longer). The BBC are so far behind the game that home-grown programmes look out of date before they have even finished airing.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jan 27, 2010)

hektik said:


> The bar for TV series has been raised by american studios, who have shown there is a mass audience who are more than capable of handling and enjoying multi-stranded, open-ended storylines that last for the whole series (or longer). The BBC are so far behind the game that home-grown programmes look out of date before they have even finished airing.



I think the Beebs problem is that the try to compete. When they stick to doing what they do best i.e character driven drama they can compete with the best in the world.

And thats what Survivors could have been. If they had stuck much closer to the original, with up to date production values, it really could have been good.

But now, well its just nothing. A mish mash of influences, none of which complement each other, and just poor. 

Its watchable but only in a dull sort of moving wall paper manner.


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm beginning to root for Dr Evil, though he and his wife would clearly benefit from discussing their marriage in the presence of a disinterested third person.

As for labwoman who protests to Dr Evil that she told her brother to just take some paracetamol and go to bed during the outbreak..er..a bit of personal responsibility wouldn't go amiss. It's just too plain easy to blame Dr Evil.

The plot holes abound. My favourite last night was when Al talked Sarah out of taking Tom's gun for some justified retribution they have a conversation over sleeping Tom's bedside whilst they put his gun back. 

This fails to wake him despite the fact that he has been in an unending state of watchful readiness for violence throughout the series and that Manchester's last pockets of humanity have collapsed into armed gangs. He still sleeps like a baby.


----------



## Scaggs (Jan 28, 2010)

The first two episodes of this series have been wank. The plots they have had so far could have been lifted from any crappy crime series and had little to do with the the idea of actually surviving in a world devastated by disease. Holding people up at gunpoint to steel their food when there would be tons of tinned stuff to just take from shops. I don't know where they find such lazy and stupid fucking writers


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 28, 2010)

It was amusing to watch psycho bloke get a kicking though, and it did have one truism. In the post apocalypse scenario, gun wins every time.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 28, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> The first two episodes of this series have been wank. The plots they have had so far could have been lifted from any crappy crime series and had little to do with the the idea of actually surviving in a world devastated by disease. Holding people up at gunpoint to steel their food when there would be *tons of tinned stuff *to just take from shops. I don't know where they find such lazy and stupid fucking writers



There's no way the tinned foods would have run out before the petrol did (there's still enough of that it seems)

If there's so few people left there'd be a tonne of food and stuff in people's houses and supermarkets etc. No way would they be reduced to stealing off each other yet.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 28, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> [...]before the petrol did (there's still enough of that it seems)


There's far more cars than people, so all you need to do is find another car.  That bit at least makes sense.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 28, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> There's far more cars than people, so all you need to do is find another car.  That bit at least makes sense.



there's more food than there are people too!! altho for a population that's meant to have been decimated there's an awful lot of folk bumping into each other.. they wouldn't be running out of food yet tho.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 28, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> there's more food than there are people too!! altho for a population that's meant to have been decimated there's an awful lot of folk bumping into each other.. they wouldn't be running out of food yet tho.


Yes, of course.  That's one of the things that doesn't make sense.


----------



## Scaggs (Jan 28, 2010)

Not much of it does make much sense as far as I can see. It looks like they decided they wanted lots of explosions and fight scenes with the Phil Mitchell stereotype so then they just linked them together in the easiest way they knew.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 28, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> Not much of it does make much sense as far as I can see.


Exactly.  That was my point.  It's pretty much only the petrol plenitude that does.


----------



## spliff (Jan 28, 2010)

I was hoping for bit more 'survivor' and how they coped with dwindling resources,  but no, it's a sort of shoot 'em up.

My Dad was telling me today about when him and me Mam were involved in a commune in Scotland in the late 50's. They'd bought up a few crofts and were attempting some sort of sustainable lifestyle. Trouble was, nobody had any craft skills. They were all teachers and academics. It fell apart within months.

A much more interesting story.

In my opinion of course


----------



## rover07 (Jan 28, 2010)

Divisive Cotton said:


> This murdering Manc character is getting on my nerves. One minute he's like a D'Artagnan character "All for one and one for all" and then he's holding up a load of people with a shotgun mugging them for all their food



Yeah what exactly was the point of robbing the people in the pub? For a couple of bottles of water and some pork scratchings


----------



## Scaggs (Jan 29, 2010)

spliff said:


> I was hoping for bit more 'survivor' and how they coped with dwindling resources,  but no, it's a sort of shoot 'em up.
> 
> My Dad was telling me today about when him and me Mam were involved in a commune in Scotland in the late 50's. They'd bought up a few crofts and were attempting some sort of sustainable lifestyle. Trouble was, nobody had any craft skills. They were all teachers and academics. It fell apart within months.
> 
> ...



The 1970's series had a bit more of that sort of thing. I downloaded it recently and watched all the episodes in order (drove Mrs Scaggs mad).


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 2, 2010)

It was ace tonight. Kangaroo courts, a neck-snap, woe and drama. Back on form, says I


----------



## smokedout (Feb 2, 2010)

they keep losing people


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (Feb 2, 2010)

Despite some attempted Bourne-esque fighting and a few great one liners ('I'd offer you a drink but all I've got is some cold piss') this is still a very unengaging drama.  Never before has the end of civilisation looked so anodyne.


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 3, 2010)

Only caught a glimpse of last night but good to see that in a post-plague Britain with food shortages and desperados roaming the streets, Black women will still be able to get hold of decent hair products


----------



## _angel_ (Feb 3, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> Only caught a glimpse of last night but good to see that in a post-plague Britain with food shortages and desperados roaming the streets, Black women will still be able to get hold of decent hair products



I kept wondering where everyone was getting their clothes ironed/makeup/hair straighteners from..

especially Abby, who has just escaped in some kind of medical smock on the run from the body snatchers, has found time to do her hair and get access to a full face of slap, while Al had ironed pjyamas.


----------



## 8den (Feb 3, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> The 1970's series had a bit more of that sort of thing. I downloaded it recently and watched all the episodes in order (drove Mrs Scaggs mad).



Five minute conversations about crop rotation, it was like a post-apocalyptic version of the Archers.


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 3, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> I kept wondering where everyone was getting their clothes ironed/makeup/hair straighteners from..
> 
> especially Abby, who has just escaped in some kind of medical smock on the run from the body snatchers, has found time to do her hair and get access to a full face of slap, while Al had ironed pjyamas.



I would have left to see a slow descent into natural for all involved. The leader would have dreads by now.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 3, 2010)

Not sure why psycho manc seems so determined to get himself nicked.

At first I thought the traded off people were going to some horrible cannibal group to be et. 

Slavery in a Coal Mine was a bit of a let down after my head had conjured up some hellish cannibal feast


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 3, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Not sure why psycho manc seems so determined to get himself nicked.
> 
> At first I thought the traded off people were going to some horrible cannibal group to be et.
> 
> Slavery in a Coal Mine was a bit of a let down after my head had conjured up some hellish cannibal feast



I thought it was the best episode so far and in a pandemic struck Britian then control of a resource such as coal would be a very logical thing to be looking to achieve given that we are not only sitting on vast reserves of the stuff but that steam power would be the most obvious way of restoring a sense of 'normality' to thing.

In fact if memory serves me right the very last scene of the original Survivors was people going down into a coal mine with the implication that this was the way forward and that people had moved on from the 'survial' state.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 3, 2010)

It's getting fairly daft now.

If they don't leave the same little corner of England and find somewhere else in the next 2 episodes I am giving up. Why are they so attached to the environs of Birmingham? How come they just seem to want to run around endlessly rescuing each other?

Coal mine? There is meant to be less than 1% of the population left. Take a lorry to a coal depot and you would have a lifetime supply. Not to mention the vast amounts of wood about. Why would anyone mine coal?

ETA - the fact that Stoat Boy thinks it's a good idea only reaffirms how daft it is.

Abbey will get increasingly sick the more times she is infected eh? Ignoring the fact that this is crap medically speaking, it's a total lameoid plot device to ramp up the tension for the next time she is kidnapped. 

I am watching and enjoying - but it's basically cobblers.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Feb 3, 2010)

on the up side i bet nobody likes the politicians and everyone wants to live with the other bods...


----------



## Idaho (Feb 3, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> Only caught a glimpse of last night but good to see that in a post-plague Britain with food shortages and desperados roaming the streets, Black women will still be able to get hold of decent hair products



We noticed that. Isn't it really hard work with specialist products to get afro hair to be that straight and neat?


----------



## Greebo (Feb 3, 2010)

IMHO a marked improvement on last week.


----------



## rover07 (Feb 3, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Coal mine? There is meant to be less than 1% of the population left. Take a lorry to a coal depot and you would have a lifetime supply. Not to mention the vast amounts of wood about. Why would anyone mine coal?



Good question. And what about diesel or petrol? There would be plenty in storage tanks around the country plus 20million odd vehicles.

Slave coal-mining...yes good idea


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 3, 2010)

Idaho said:


> It's getting fairly daft now.
> 
> Coal mine? There is meant to be less than 1% of the population left. Take a lorry to a coal depot and you would have a lifetime supply. Not to mention the vast amounts of wood about. Why would anyone mine coal?
> 
> ETA - the fact that Stoat Boy thinks it's a good idea only reaffirms how daft it is.





Within the time frame that the series has been about then you are probably quite right. 

But longer term, over say 5 years or so, when the road network has become unusable therefore making the majority of coal depots unreachable for anything else other than living right next door then mining it would make sense on all sorts of levels, not least the fact that the mines would still be connected to the rail network which would become the main method of getting from a to b.

However I do spend to much time thinking about this sort of thing.

Oh and its Manchester and its environs but I agree with your general gist.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 3, 2010)

Nah - it still doesn't play. The viable coal seams are now quite deep and need specialist equipment to mine. The small mines which are not viable for mechnised mining (south wales for example) would potentially be a goer especially as the coal is very high quality - but they are now all flooded and would (once again) take a massive amount of equipment and skill to open up again.

The only reason we turned to coal is because it burns hotter than wood, and is in more plentiful supply, and can be transported (although on this last point it doubles in cost for every mile you take it overland). With your idea we would all need to situate ourselves near a railway to get our coal. And that doesn't even begin to address the massive issue of maintaining a railway for a small scattered population. Your coal would come at such a massive premium that no-one would be able to afford it.

With a tiny population, with potentially good access to technology it would make much more sense to produce oil crops for diesel and use wind/water power and wood for most uses. You might want to do a fair bit of charcoal making with the wood. Far easier and on a more sensible scale than coal mining.


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (Feb 3, 2010)

rover07 said:


> Good question. And what about diesel or petrol? There would be plenty in storage tanks around the country plus 20million odd vehicles.



The diesel would be good for years.  Petrol isn't made to last though, anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months before it starts to gum up and form solid desposits. Diesel engines are more efficient than petrol ones and as mentioned biodiesel could power them when dinodiesel ran out.  Diesel all the way.


----------



## Sadken (Feb 3, 2010)

I am still enjoying it but so so so much of it makes no sense whatsoever.  Why would Dexter allow Tom a visitor etc etc, why would insanely paranoid Tom trust Samantha etc etc


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Feb 3, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Your coal would come at such a massive premium that no-one would be able to afford it.



Not if you had slave labour to mine it for you!


----------



## Idaho (Feb 3, 2010)

Divisive Cotton said:


> Not if you had slave labour to mine it for you!



Slaves are still a major expense. Especially if you have to feed 50 of them to do the work of two machines and a couple of skilled miners. It's not the cost of pulling it out the ground so much as the cost of making the mine operational and having the transport infrastructure.


----------



## _angel_ (Feb 3, 2010)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> The diesel would be good for years.  Petrol isn't made to last though, anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months before it starts to gum up and form solid desposits. Diesel engines are more efficient than petrol ones and as mentioned biodiesel could power them when dinodiesel ran out.  Diesel all the way.



In the last train they still drive a car about, supposedly 50 years after it's been left !!


I couldn't understand why they would need specifically coal so immediately.

In fact just about none of this really makes sense, why would anyone still be listening to Ms Nu Labour woman??
Them running out of food and robbing each other in the last ep was just silly, there must be tons of tinned food sitting in people's houses and warehouses etc.


----------



## Giles (Feb 3, 2010)

With so few people needing food, fuel etc, there would be SO MUCH stuff just lying there waiting to be used that our small bands of survivors just wouldn't have to keep robbing and stealing, let alone enslaving people.

The stocks of coal lying next to any power station would last for ever, in all practical terms - no need to mine anything at all, slaves or not.

Stocks of tinned food would last a good few years - although growing fresh veg and stuff would be good. Keep a few animals for meat and eggs, and there you are.

Oh dear, one group seem to have taken over some food and provisions depot and are thretening all-comers with guns? Hey, just go and find another one, there's plenty.

Fuel - loads of it in tanks all over the place. Diesel is right.

OTOH, if people in movies (and especially in disaster movies) did the right things, there wouldn't be much actual drama!

Giles..


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2010)

grrr, it's still not on bloody iplayer!  Had to watch some intelligent telly instead


----------



## Idaho (Feb 4, 2010)

Giles said:


> OTOH, if people in movies (and especially in disaster movies) did the right things, there wouldn't be much actual drama!


I think there would be lots of drama. The main drama would be the tension between characters who were deeply traumatised by everyone they know dying and having to adapt to a new lifestyle. There would be all kinds of politics of how to live, which area was controlled by who. Access to doctors, bartering etc.


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 4, 2010)

belboid said:


> grrr, it's still not on bloody iplayer!  Had to watch some intelligent telly instead


Yes it is, I watched yesterday.

What would've happened to the nuclear power stations?


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2010)

not on virgin it aint!  still only had last weeks


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 4, 2010)

Idaho said:


> We noticed that. Isn't it really hard work with specialist products to get afro hair to be that straight and neat?



Not particularly hard work if you got the right stuff, its easily done at home. My theory is that Dexter (who early in series 1 seemed to be taking control of supermarket warehouses) made a deal to join her commune by supplying her with a massive stash of hair product, being typical New Labour and so obviously interested in 'style over substance' she agreed to ignore his sociopathic tendencies and let him in.


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 4, 2010)

How to look good the plague years.


----------



## Sadken (Feb 4, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> why would anyone still be listening to Ms Nu Labour woman??



Seriously, why? Her character and the authority she wields basically undermines the theory of evolution.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 4, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> Not particularly hard work if you got the right stuff, its easily done at home. My theory is that Dexter (who early in series 1 seemed to be taking control of supermarket warehouses) made a deal to join her commune by supplying her with a massive stash of hair product, being typical New Labour and so obviously interested in 'style over substance' she agreed to ignore his sociopathic tendencies and let him in.


He was supplying her with just enough at a time.  That's why she found the decision to have him killed so painful.  Staring at a bottle of whisky, stroking her hair.  She knows his death means that in a few weeks, maybe even days, she will have to go natural.  And that's going to hurt.


----------



## andy2002 (Feb 4, 2010)

Sadken said:


> I am still enjoying it but so so so much of it makes no sense whatsoever.  Why would Dexter allow Tom a visitor etc etc, why would insanely paranoid Tom trust Samantha etc etc



These are the kind of problems I have with the show too – character consistency is too often sacrificed when it becomes inconvenient to the plot. I thought the courtroom scene was a perfect example of that – however much Greg dislikes Tom there is no way he would have found him guilty; mainly because he knew how much it would piss off Abby and the others. And then, bizarrely, he performs a complete U-turn when the plot dictates it is necessary for him to do so.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 4, 2010)

andy2002 said:


> These are the kind of problems I have with the show too – character consistency is too often sacrificed when it becomes inconvenient to the plot. I thought the courtroom scene was a perfect example of that – however much Greg dislikes Tom there is no way he would have found him guilty; mainly because he knew how much it would piss off Abby and the others. And then, bizarrely, *he performs a complete U-turn when the plot dictates it is necessary for him to do so.*



Not that odd. He was complying with the Kangaroo Court but when it became clear that nulab scum lady was running a sham trial and overrode the jury he refused to be complicit in that.


----------



## andy2002 (Feb 4, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Not that odd. He was complying with the Kangaroo Court but when it became clear that nulab scum lady was running a sham trial and overrode the jury he refused to be complicit in that.



Fair point but what was all that "one of us" stuff about then? Especially after the revelation that Tom was a double murderer even before he shot and killed Gavin.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Feb 4, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> In fact just about none of this really makes sense, why would anyone still be listening to Ms Nu Labour woman??



In'it she'd be the first up against the wall!


----------



## Giles (Feb 4, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Yes it is, I watched yesterday.
> 
> What would've happened to the nuclear power stations?



Good question. 

Although given that the plague wasn't instantaneous, once it became clear that loads of staff had died, maybe the remaining people shut things down before leaving? Or dying?

I mean, it would be different if something made EVERYONE instantly drop dead, no warning.

Giles..


----------



## madzone (Feb 4, 2010)

The actor who plays Greg annoys me soooooo much I can't watch it


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 4, 2010)

Giles said:


> Good question.
> 
> Although given that the plague wasn't instantaneous, once it became clear that loads of staff had died, maybe the remaining people shut things down before leaving? Or dying?
> 
> ...



I've often imagined a tribe who pay ritualistic obeisance to the mechanisms of a nuke station, entirely unaware that their tending of the machinery is not worship but rather essential maintenance


----------



## Giles (Feb 4, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I've often imagined a tribe who pay ritualistic obeisance to the mechanisms of a nuke station, entirely unaware that their tending of the machinery is not worship but rather essential maintenance



A bit like a ?!

Not exactly , but kind of the same principle.

Giles..


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (Feb 4, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Yes it is, I watched yesterday.
> 
> What would've happened to the nuclear power stations?



If you are into all things apocolyptic (as I am) you might have seen Life after Humans a couple of years ago (its on youtube if you haven't).  Went over various scenrios such as this, concluding that nuclear power stations have automated shutdowns so would be safe in the short to medium term.  In the long term the building fabric containing nuclear facilities would be destroyed by vegetation so containment would be more of a problem.

Of greater danger straight away isn't nuke power stations but nuclear waste - some of which (the most highly radioactive) is contained in temperature controlled facilities dependant on electricity. Be a bloody good reason to avoid NW England for a few thousand years.


----------



## _angel_ (Feb 4, 2010)

Giles said:


> Good question.
> 
> Although given that the plague wasn't instantaneous, once it became clear that loads of staff had died, maybe the remaining people shut things down before leaving? Or dying?
> 
> ...




They did in that scene in the mosque.


----------



## Giles (Feb 4, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> They did in that scene in the mosque.



But that was bollox though, wasn't it?

Giles..


----------



## yardbird (Feb 4, 2010)

andy2002 said:


> Fair point but what was all that "one of us" stuff about then? Especially after the revelation that Tom was a double murderer even before he shot and killed Gavin.



We're all the same now.
Times Must.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 5, 2010)

Giles said:


> A bit like a ?!
> 
> Not exactly , but kind of the same principle.
> 
> Giles..



Yes, although it is also similar to the machine-culty nature of Warhammer 40k technology I suppose. Anoint the machine with oil, pray to the Emperor and then press the buttons in this Holy Sequence....


----------



## cybertect (Feb 5, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I think there would be lots of drama. The main drama would be the tension between characters who were deeply traumatised by everyone they know dying and having to adapt to a new lifestyle. There would be all kinds of politics of how to live, which area was controlled by who. Access to doctors, bartering etc.



Hmm. Echoing what was said earlier, the 1970s series had a lot more of that too.


----------



## maya (Feb 6, 2010)

Absolutely ridiculous how they keep driving around in fancy cars after the whole of civilisation is supposed to have broken down and resources are scarce- where the fuck do they get all the petrol from? 
And why are the cars so shiny and new, and their clothes never dirty even though electricity is gone? Laughably unrealistic...


----------



## Giles (Feb 6, 2010)

maya said:


> Absolutely ridiculous how they keep driving around in fancy cars after the whole of civilisation is supposed to have broken down and resources are scarce- where the fuck do they get all the petrol from?
> And why are the cars so shiny and new, and their clothes never dirty even though electricity is gone? Laughably unrealistic...



But if almost everyone died, resources wouldn't be that scarce. As others pointed out, petrol, or more especially diesel, would last years - think of how many filling stations there are. You would need some means of getting it out, though. A battery-powered pump of some sort.

Electricity wouldn't be too hard either. Find a fuel tanker somewhere full of diesel. Drive it back to your base, then go to a tool hire shop and grab a chunky diesel generator, bring back to your base, fill with diesel, there you are. One tanker full of diesel is what, 5000 gallons? Maybe more? Enough to last for years.......

Giles..


----------



## Iguana (Feb 6, 2010)

madzone said:


> The actor who plays Greg annoys me soooooo much I can't watch it



He permanently looks like he's badly constipated and desperately trying to squeeze a shit out.  His eyes look ready to pop.  

I'm so glad the rumours were wrong and he's not the new Doctor.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 7, 2010)

Of greater danger straight away isn't nuke power stations but nuclear waste - some of which (the most highly radioactive) is contained in temperature controlled facilities dependant on electricity. Be a bloody good reason to avoid NW England for a few thousand years.[/QUOTE]

as if anyone needs an excuse


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 9, 2010)

escape, get caught, escape, get caught, escape..............................


----------



## Idaho (Feb 9, 2010)

What a load of dull stupid shite. I almost cheered when they hit Greg. Hit him again... 

It just doesn't make any sense? They were all there with the main bloke on his own. Why didn't they just break his neck? None of the henchmen have a clue. And why did they just let Tom out by himself and not all run? Why? Why did Naz and thingy sit there behind a wall without so much as a stick?

Why are they so fucking incompetant? Aaargggh! I am so annoyed with this programme.


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 10, 2010)

It’s funny how all these post apocalyptic drama’s assume that without government and police to sort us all out we’d instantly turn on each other and enslave/murder the first survivors we came across. Wouldn’t cooperation be more likely in the circumstances?

I’ve given up on this shite.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Feb 10, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> It’s funny how all these post apocalyptic drama’s assume that without government and police to sort us all out we’d instantly turn on each other and enslave/murder the first survivors we came across. Wouldn’t cooperation be more likely in the circumstances?
> 
> I’ve given up on this shite.


No, that's stupid.


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 10, 2010)

Bob_the_lost said:


> No, that's stupid.



S'pose the writer agrees with you. Guess he knows his stuff though. I think he did the crap dinosaur programs on ITV.


----------



## andy2002 (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Why? Why did Naz and thingy sit there behind a wall without so much as a stick?



Because the writers aren't good enough to find something for all the characters to do week in, week out. The funniest bit with Al and Naj was when they were hiding behind a wall when Smithson's men turned up at the pub - and then were *still* there later when the men came out and went away again. Wouldn't they be worried that these men could hurt/rape/assault Abby, Anya and Sarah? Wouldn't they be concerned enough to at least go and spy on them through a window or something?


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Feb 10, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> It’s funny how all these post apocalyptic drama’s assume that without government and police to sort us all out we’d instantly turn on each other and enslave/murder the first survivors we came across. Wouldn’t cooperation be more likely in the circumstances?
> 
> I’ve given up on this shite.



Yeah, it's like a non-society created by Ayn Rand and Ragnar Redbeard

The most _basic _realisation of the few remaining survivors left would be: There aren't many of us now so all those with skills need to pool their knowledge so that we can help each other both survive in the immediate and rebuilt a society in the future.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 10, 2010)

I made the mistake of watching a bit of this yesterday evening. I thought I'd turned on ITV by mistake. What utter drivel. I have now smeared my TV licence in excrement and posted it to Rupert Murdoch. Two birds, one stone.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2010)

Divisive Cotton said:


> Yeah, it's like a non-society created by Ayn Rand and Ragnar Redbeard


The writer didn't _approve_ of the slave society that Classics Man was trying to set up. 

I dimly remember this episode from the original programme, too.  I can see I'm going to have to watch it to contrast and compare.


----------



## Giles (Feb 10, 2010)

If they had just driven one big truck and one JCB to any one of the big coal-fired power stations or , they would find enough coal just lying there in huge heaps to last the small band of survivors forever.

Although with all that oil lying around (and probably endless cylinders of propane for heating and cooking if you could locate a depot) why you would bother with coal for the first 20 years or so after the plague, I don't know......

Giles..


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2010)

Giles said:


> If they had just driven one big truck and one JCB to any one of the big coal-fired power stations or , they would find enough coal just lying there in huge heaps to last the small band of survivors forever.
> 
> Although with all that oil lying around (and probably endless cylinders of propane for heating and cooking if you could locate a depot) why you would bother with coal for the first 20 years or so after the plague, I don't know......
> 
> Giles..


  Yes.  I'm not suggesting it's logical.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 10, 2010)

Giles said:


> If they had just driven one big truck and one JCB to any one of the big coal-fired power stations or , they would find enough coal just lying there in huge heaps to last the small band of survivors forever.
> 
> Although with all that oil lying around (and probably endless cylinders of propane for heating and cooking if you could locate a depot) why you would bother with coal for the first 20 years or so after the plague, I don't know......
> 
> Giles..



Well quite. The country has enough supplies of coal, gas and oil (and petrol) to last a fully functioning economy and populace for about 3 weeks. Therefore it will last 0.5% of the population 3 weeks x 200 = 600 weeks = about 11 years 

Co-operation would be central to how people responded. With such abundance of stuff and such trauma, people would group together and co-operate far more. The idea that we would all be fighting and scrabbling over stuff is ludicrous. 

One thing that would swiftly develop would be people carrying lists of names and places of people they have met. Swapping lists with people to see if you know any other survivors would be one of the first things that people would do.


----------



## Giles (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Well quite. The country has enough supplies of coal, gas and oil (and petrol) to last a fully functioning economy and populace for about 3 weeks. Therefore it will last 0.5% of the population 3 weeks x 200 = 600 weeks = about 11 years
> 
> Co-operation would be central to how people responded. With such abundance of stuff and such trauma, people would group together and co-operate far more. The idea that we would all be fighting and scrabbling over stuff is ludicrous.
> 
> One thing that would swiftly develop would be people carrying lists of names and places of people they have met. Swapping lists with people to see if you know any other survivors would be one of the first things that people would do.



The other thing that could very easily be done is radio communications. OK, the mobile phone networks would of course have long died, but equipping every one of their vehicles with a radio, such as those used in taxis etc, would be trivial. Just find some taxis! Then also stick a similar radio with an aerial up on a high roof, at your "base camp" and you could get 10 or 20 miles depending on terrain.

No more problems with people disappearing off, and the rest having no clue what's happened to them! 

But again, this would spoil the potential for silly dramas two or three times an episode!

Giles..


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 10, 2010)

What I don't get is, why are they still in the same area? It's been a year since the plague, they spend all their time escaping and yet they don't seem to get anywhere 

Also if there was only one key to the neck chain thingys, where did Tom get one from to release everyone within seconds


----------



## Idaho (Feb 10, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> What I don't get is, why are they still in the same area? It's been a year since the plague, they spend all their time escaping and yet they don't seem to get anywhere



The plague also destroyed all maps and roadsigns, and gave everyone a very poor sense of direction.



> Also if there was only one key to the neck chain thingys, where did Tom get one from to release everyone within seconds



There were two guards with sticks outside. More than a match for 30 angry, desperate men.



Seriously though. Who can we write to about how shit this is? I'm so angry I could start a Facebook group.


----------



## rover07 (Feb 10, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> Also if there was only one key to the neck chain thingys, where did Tom get one from to release everyone within seconds



And why didnt he release everyone when he first got out? Why didnt they all climb up out the container?


----------



## rover07 (Feb 10, 2010)

I wonder what sort of society they will run into next week... Feudal? or an Anarchist collective maybe?


----------



## rover07 (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I'm so angry I could start a Facebook group.



Yes! Thats what Tom would do.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I'm so angry I could start a Facebook group.


Idaho, mate, can you see those white birds over there?  In the tree?  Keep looking...


----------



## Idaho (Feb 10, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Idaho, mate, can you see those white birds over there?  In the tree?  Keep looking...



Why did Tom break the neck of the person he fought at the NuLabour sanctuary - a nice neat quick death - and suffocate the bloke he liked - a panicky, slowish, horrible death?


----------



## Giles (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Why did Tom break the neck of the person he fought at the NuLabour sanctuary - a nice neat quick death - and suffocate the bloke he liked - a panicky, slowish, horrible death?



Yeah ... that seems TOTALLY wrong because you would think that most people would take the opportunity to inflict a slow, painful death on any NuLabour survivors.

Giles..


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Why did Tom break the neck of the person he fought at the NuLabour sanctuary - a nice neat quick death - and suffocate the bloke he liked - a panicky, slowish, horrible death?


To make it sadder.


Anyway, it doesn't matter what you did in the past.  Only what you do now.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 10, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> To make it sadder.
> 
> 
> Anyway, it doesn't matter what you did in the past.  Only what you do now.



Phew... Time to come clean about the patio in my old house then.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Phew... Time to come clean about the patio in my old house then.


That would be brave and honest.  If I was a hot lesbo doctor I'd hug you.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 10, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> That would be brave and honest.  If I was a hot lesbo doctor I'd hug you.



If you were a hot lesbo doctor I'd bury you under my patio.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> If you were a hot lesbo doctor I'd bury you under my patio.


----------



## dlx1 (Feb 10, 2010)

why can't kids do as there told. Billy - _I was going to take you some were nice. 
_


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 10, 2010)

Where does trigger find all these kids in a post apocalyptic landscape?

And why does Abbies lot always fuck everything up?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Where does trigger find all these kids in a post apocalyptic landscape?


I think I'm right in saying he was in the original series, too.

I'm going to have to get it on DVD.  God, my wife will leave me.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 10, 2010)

The last scene with the kids, especially the one called Peter Grant which seems to imply he is Abbys son makes me wonder if they are going to end things in the way they did in the original book.

As to the episode itself, well it was full of the usual holes although I found the slavery thing interesting in terms of a wider post-apoc sort of way. They had a similar plot line in Jericho and it makes me wonder if that was were they got it from.

Control and organisation of Coal production in a pandemic struck Britain would become important but not for years (5-10).


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 10, 2010)

rover07 said:


> I wonder what sort of society they will run into next week... Feudal? or an Anarchist collective maybe?



doesn't matter they'll escape anyway, this lot would have pissed all over Colditz.


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Why did Tom break the neck of the person he fought at the NuLabour sanctuary - a nice neat quick death - and suffocate the bloke he liked - a panicky, slowish, horrible death?




It would have been a lot more humane to have run over him with the lorry


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> The country has enough supplies of coal, gas and oil (and petrol) to last a fully functioning economy and populace for about 3 weeks. Therefore it will last 0.5% of the population 3 weeks x 200 = 600 weeks = about 11 years
> 
> Co-operation would be central to how people responded. With such abundance of stuff and such trauma, people would group together and co-operate far more. The idea that we would all be fighting and scrabbling over stuff is ludicrous.
> 
> One thing that would swiftly develop would be people carrying lists of names and places of people they have met. Swapping lists with people to see if you know any other survivors would be one of the first things that people would do.





Giles said:


> The other thing that could very easily be done is radio communications. OK, the mobile phone networks would of course have long died, but equipping every one of their vehicles with a radio, such as those used in taxis etc, would be trivial. Just find some taxis! Then also stick a similar radio with an aerial up on a high roof, at your "base camp" and you could get 10 or 20 miles depending on terrain.
> 
> .



Some great ideas folks! 

If only we were the survivors we'd show this stupid lot how to cope in a post-apocalyptic world


----------



## rover07 (Feb 10, 2010)

Where would you get a clean water supply? 

Does drinking from rivers or streams give you worms or parasites?


----------



## Idaho (Feb 10, 2010)

rover07 said:


> Where would you get a clean water supply?
> 
> Does drinking from rivers or streams give you worms or parasites?



Boil water or drink beer - like they did before they had reliable clean water. 

You have to choose technological solutions that are proven to work in similar situations.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 10, 2010)

rover07 said:


> Where would you get a clean water supply?
> 
> Does drinking from rivers or streams give you worms or parasites?



Boil it first or use the millions of bottled water stored in supermarkets and distribution centres.


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 10, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Boil it first or use the millions of bottled water stored in supermarkets and distribution centres.



In fact I plan to takeover a Tesco and live there in the event of meltdown


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 10, 2010)

go for a 'mall' or enclosed shopping palace like they do in Zombie films. More stuff there and it can be locked down  tight, has alarm systems and int ercoms et.

I reckon with five good men I could hold the Grovesnor center for at least 5 months


----------



## dlx1 (Feb 10, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> It would have been a lot more humane to have run over him with the lorry


  look at the birds look at the birds ROOOOM ROOOM SPAT


----------



## _angel_ (Feb 10, 2010)

Wasn't too convinced about the slavery thing, firstly they made it sound it was really easy to get slaves, when there were hardly any people and the ones there were supposedly likely to be armed to the teeth and able to fight back... secondly, the people needed would have to be physically strong - just the sort to resist best, thirdly I think a system of mutual cooperation was more likely to happen, Quite possibly people would have been happy to work in return for some basic security.

I've been thinking about this possibly a tad too much!


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2010)

I've just ordered the original series off Amazon.    Despite knowing it'll end my marriage.


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Well quite. The country has enough supplies of coal, gas and oil (and petrol) to last a fully functioning economy and populace for about 3 weeks. Therefore it will last 0.5% of the population 3 weeks x 200 = 600 weeks = about 11 years



Thats dependant on energy consumption being at the same rate per person (it be less).  We can also distribute fuels easily  - in this post world the fuels would be dumped in central locations and be harder to access.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 10, 2010)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> Thats dependant on energy consumption being at the same rate per person (it be less).  We can also distribute fuels easily  - in this post world the fuels would be dumped in central locations and be harder to access.



Thats the key to it. The road network would probably be unusable to anything other than the most hardiest 4WD within 5 years. The rail net work would be the key to things as it would not only remain relatively clear (the trains would probably stop running pretty early on leaving the tracks clear ) but the techology to keep it in working condition would be intact along with a fair amount of steam engines in pristine condition. 

The same problems would apply to supplies of tinned food and so on and whilst the King of the Castle would no doubt take control of the larger warehouses it would only be the ultimate form of fiddling whilst Rome burnt.

Long term its all about salt and coal.


----------



## 8den (Feb 10, 2010)

Why the fuck didn't the slave miners not have guns? 

If I was planning on ruling by brute force, I'd go to the nearest military barracks with a forklift, a battery powered hacksaw and some bolt cutters, raid the armoury and set myself up. 

And just from a story point of view, for fucks sake, how many different escape attempts were different characters engaged in at the same time? I'm pretty sure Greg tried to leap the camp's fence on a motorbike while Charles Bronson was digging a tunnel. 

It's shoddy tv, poorly written and unimaginative. Coal not a problem with survivor levels, I'm pretty sure a BnQ could keep a few hundred survivors through a few winters, and thats just coal and bottled gas. Never mind actual trees, and y'know for fucks sake my local IKEA could keep everyone in London in fuel till 2020. And thats before you start ripping up floorboards.


----------



## 8den (Feb 10, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Thats the key to it. The road network would probably be unusable to anything other than the most hardiest 4WD within 5 years. The rail net work would be the key to things as it would not only remain relatively clear (the trains would probably stop running pretty early on leaving the tracks clear ) but the techology to keep it in working condition would be intact along with a fair amount of steam engines in pristine condition.
> 
> The same problems would apply to supplies of tinned food and so on and whilst the King of the Castle would no doubt take control of the larger warehouses it would only be the ultimate form of fiddling whilst Rome burnt.
> 
> Long term its all about salt and coal.



Yeah but that's long term, as has been pointed out it's only been a year since the plague when this episode is set, trying to organise a coal mine a year after this event, makes about as much sense as trying to set up a call centre doing IT tech support.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 10, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Thats the key to it. The road network would probably be unusable to anything other than the most hardiest 4WD within 5 years. The rail net work would be the key to things as it would not only remain relatively clear (the trains would probably stop running pretty early on leaving the tracks clear ) but the techology to keep it in working condition would be intact along with a fair amount of steam engines in pristine condition.
> 
> The same problems would apply to supplies of tinned food and so on and whilst the King of the Castle would no doubt take control of the larger warehouses it would only be the ultimate form of fiddling whilst Rome burnt.
> 
> Long term its all about salt and coal.



I'd rather try and drive a car across cracked and tatty roads, slowing down at times to go round potholes or take diversions - than zoom along in a train on tracks that haven't been checked and stress tested recently. Also - how you going to get the train back on the track or the repair train to come and fix it? Not a chance.

Long term it's all about creating a food surplus and having enough of a local economy to support specialists. Better to gather together as many people as you could and take over a small town near roads, sea, rivers and a network of nearby good farms. It's no point having a doctor between 10 people. You would want a doctor to be supporting 500-1,000 people and be training a couple of people at the same time. Likewise to have administrators, engineers and perhaps soldiers/watchmen you will need to be generating a reliable and constant food surplus. Such a surplus would rely on good land and good trade links.

Fuel will matter - but for that size of a community you could control a nearby powerstation stash - and be looking into other energy options for the long term.


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I'd rather try and drive a car across cracked and tatty roads, slowing down at times to go round potholes or take diversions - than zoom along in a train on tracks that haven't been checked and stress tested recently. Also - how you going to get the train back on the track or the repair train to come and fix it? Not a chance.
> 
> Long term it's all about creating a food surplus and having enough of a local economy to support specialists. Better to gather together as many people as you could and take over a small town near roads, sea, rivers and a network of nearby good farms. It's no point having a doctor between 10 people. You would want a doctor to be supporting 500-1,000 people and be training a couple of people at the same time. Likewise to have administrators, engineers and perhaps soldiers/watchmen you will need to be generating a reliable and constant food surplus. Such a surplus would rely on good land and good trade links.
> 
> Fuel will matter - but for that size of a community you could control a nearby powerstation stash - and be looking into other energy options for the long term.




I'd have thought wind farms could supply enough energy for that size of population too. So long as an electrician survived to to do the necessary wiring. That would mean them moving out of the cities but with all those rotting corpses that would be sensible anyway.


----------



## Giles (Feb 10, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Thats the key to it. The road network would probably be unusable to anything other than the most hardiest 4WD within 5 years. The rail net work would be the key to things as it would not only remain relatively clear (the trains would probably stop running pretty early on leaving the tracks clear ) but the techology to keep it in working condition would be intact along with a fair amount of steam engines in pristine condition.
> 
> The same problems would apply to supplies of tinned food and so on and whilst the King of the Castle would no doubt take control of the larger warehouses it would only be the ultimate form of fiddling whilst Rome burnt.
> 
> Long term its all about salt and coal.



I think it would take considerably longer than 5 years for most roads to become impassable.

Railways would be way too complicated. And the tracks need a lot of maintenance. After five years, stuff would be rusting away...... points, for a start would seize up. And, who knows how to drive trains, or fix trains? Whereas most people can drive a car, a truck etc.

Go to an army depot, and get yourself some nice army 4x4 trucks. Even 4x4 fuel tankers - the army must have a lot of them stashed around the place. Solid, unbreakable, simple diesel engines, OK, you'd have to put up with driving along at 45mph or so, but never mind. And (why has no-one on this TV show thought of this) while raiding an army depot, GET SOME BLOODY GUNS! Then people wouldn't keep messing with you and capturing you.....

Giles..


----------



## Idaho (Feb 10, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> I'd have thought wind farms could supply enough energy for that size of population too. So long as an electrician survived to to do the necessary wiring. That would mean them moving out of the cities but with all those rotting corpses that would be sensible anyway.



Wind is probably ok as supplimental power. You would need to have lots of batteries to make it storable - and they take fairly specialised equipment to make.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 10, 2010)

8den said:


> Yeah but that's long term, as has been pointed out it's only been a year since the plague when this episode is set, trying to organise a coal mine a year after this event, makes about as much sense as trying to set up a call centre doing IT tech support.




I dont disagree and have given up on the whole post mortem thing with regards to the specifics because its just not worth the effort given the massive holes in every episode with only perhaps one or two exceptions.

What interests me, as a self-confessed post apoc geek which borders on a minor case of OCD, are the bigger issues and to be fair this series has touched upon them. Coal, and the production of it, would matter eventually. 

I reckon that the first 12-24 months following such an event would actually just see most survivors in a state of PTSD that would mean very little in the way of anything organised getting done at all and anything that did happening having very little chance of surviving on any sort of mid to long term basis.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 10, 2010)

Stoat, you would be gleefully attempting to set up a functional society with yourself as quarter-master General an some pretty puppet to play leader.

I would be fostering apocalypse cults and generally acting to destabilise all attempts to reinstall any hierarchal nonsense. I'd need a pretty 'maddonna of the apocalypse' to front my interference campaigns and a charismatic bloke to act as leader of the wolf pack. Once we have destroyed it all it can be rebuilt. To my vision.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 10, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Stoat, you would be gleefully attempting to set up a functional society with yourself as quarter-master General an some pretty puppet to play leader.
> 
> I would be fostering apocalypse cults and generally acting to destabilise all attempts to reinstall any hierarchal nonsense. I'd need a pretty 'maddonna of the apocalypse' to front my interference campaigns and a charismatic bloke to act as leader of the wolf pack. Once we have destroyed it all it can be rebuilt. To my vision.





To be fair I doubt I would last the first year.


----------



## Mr Moose (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi. I'm Max Beesley and I'm here to tell you about a useful rule that will help you. I call it WWMBD. That's 'What would Max Beesley do?'

Imagine you find yourself in a post apocalyptic world. WWMBD?

Drive a Lorry with steely forward-facing gaze relying only on peripheral vision to spot hazards? Check.

Fall in love with a beautiful lesbian and against the highest odds ever calculated find you become best mates? Check.

Euthanase a fellow survivor playing the role of 'He who has hitherto not been seen member of the landing party'? Check.

Ford a river employing a strange and unwieldly breaststroke? Check.

Fashion an unlikely explosion out of two past their sell by date crisp packets? Check.

Get your agent to check this episode's script and ring the producer to ensure that you get a regulation tough guy licking and moment of heroism? Check.

So remember WWMBD? Its a rule for surviving, like.


----------



## Iguana (Feb 10, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Coal, and the production of it, would matter eventually.



But this is a scenario where less than 0.1% of the population has survived.  The coal that would be sitting at coal power-stations would last decades.  And people would utilise a lot less power than we do now.  Power would be for lighting, heating, refrigeration and cooking.  It wouldn't be used for entertainment or beautifying.  There would also be a lot more communal living which would cut down further.  It would be 50+ years before we would really start running out of fuel and who knows what types of innovations would have happened in that time - necessity being the mother of invention and all of that.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 10, 2010)

Iguana said:


> But this is a scenario where less than 0.1% of the population has survived.  The coal that would be sitting at coal power-stations would last decades.  And people would utilise a lot less power than we do now.  Power would be for lighting, heating, refrigeration and cooking.  It wouldn't be used for entertainment or beautifying.  There would also be a lot more communal living which would cut down further.  It would be 50+ years before we would really start running out of fuel and who knows what types of innovations would have happened in that time - necessity being the mother of invention and all of that.



The issue is getting to the coal. And I am a bore about it but the road system would be impassable withinn 5 to 10 years.

Logic would dictate that the vast majority of survivors would head south but the majority of coal would be in the North. And a rail system would connect the two. 

And even if the Kent coal mines were able to be productive it would still be an issue of getting it out to the communitys that required it. 

Power generation would be the key to things. The person who gets the lights back up and running is the one who gets the top job. The only logical way of doing so in this senario is through utilising steam power and the most effective way of creating that is with coal.

Getting the freezers up and running even negates the need for massive salt supplies, although it would still be a factor, so everything would eventually depend on coal.


----------



## 8den (Feb 10, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> The issue is getting to the coal. And I am a bore about it but the road system would be impassable withinn 5 to 10 years.




Yeah and the problem is the mine in the last episode was set one year of the virus. 

Furthermore. Canals. The perfect way to transport material between population centres. Coal. Food. etc. Not trains or roads.


----------



## 8den (Feb 10, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Power generation would be the key to things. The person who gets the lights back up and running is the one who gets the top job. The only logical way of doing so in this senario is through utilising steam power and the most effective way of creating that is with coal.




It was mentioned in the third series of the original series. Basically ensuring power substations are all in working order etc would be impossible. Seriously you really think powergen keeps tens of thousands of people on staff for shits and giggles?  Keeping a small community up and running would be a massive effort for any electrical engineer. 

What fucks me off is the fact that they don't recognise hpw stupidly important the doctor is. Arguable the only doctor in the country, any idiot should recognise  how insanely important she is.


----------



## Iguana (Feb 10, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> And I am a bore about it but the road system would be impassable withinn 5 to 10 years.



Why?  There are only about 50k people alive in all of the island of Britain.  The roads are hardly going to fall part through over use.  The biggest problem facing the roads will be them getting over grown, it would be fairly easy to maintain the main roads from somewhere like Selby (for Drax's coal reserve decades worth for so few people) to wherever people are.  Even pothole filling and basic maintenance would be easy enough to have up and running within a couple of years for the most necessary roads.

Lets be honest, a scenario where 99.9% of the population dies after a short but noticeable illness is the best apocalypse you can hope for.  Society has had a chance to shut down all the immediate dangers.  Powerstations are shut down, emergency broadcast and communication systems have been set up, no aeroplanes fall out of the sky, most cars are off the roads as people went home to lie down, there is no immediate serious environmental hazards.  There is no scarcity of anything at all, so no real fear of invaders or wars.  There are enough people left to start a number of mid-sized settlements in strategic locations.  All the books and information to get things started again still exists so even if certain experts and professionals are gone the means to teach them is still there as is all our technology.    

The biggest worry is the surviving fuckwits and lunatics, especially if they are smart and charismatic enough to have weapons and followers - but ultimately they are no nuclear winter, mutants or zombies - they will be comparatively easy to put down.  As apocalypses go, it's fucking cushy.  Within a decade there will workable modern societies in most areas of the world.  And most will communicate and co-operate with each other.


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## free spirit (Feb 11, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> I'd have thought wind farms could supply enough energy for that size of population too. So long as an electrician survived to to do the necessary wiring. That would mean them moving out of the cities but with all those rotting corpses that would be sensible anyway.


all wind turbines and other grid connected renewables are fitted with an automatic cut out mechanism that means when the grid goes down they shut off.

best place for society to reform power wise would probably be north west wales around the Dinorwig and festiniog pump storage stations, as with the amount of wind also in the area a few people with a reasonable understanding of things could probably isolate that area of the grid and get it functioning again, and keep it maintained.

before that though you'd want to either take over the centre for alternative technology site up that way (which is a damn site better kitted out than the crap earth centre site that daft civil servant hitler type's got), or go round twoking solar panels and little wind turbines from road signs, put together a fuck load of batteries, get hold of some inverters from somewhere, and erect a renewable energy minigrid for a community sized set up somewhere with a decent ground water supply, fruit trees and land to grow veg on... oh yeah, and wood burners for heat / hot water / cooking.

fuck all this coal malarchy, what are you going to do, get a coal fired power station running, and keep it running, as well as the grid?


----------



## Idaho (Feb 11, 2010)

I am also a post-apocalypse junkie - so much so that I am trying ot buy some land to build my emergency evac and supply area 

Most usable coal seams are going to be inaccessable. Any seam reachable by amatuers without equipment would have been mined long, long ago. Same with metals. 

People are going to be salvaging stuff for decades - probably centuries. With 0.5% of the population there isn't a chance of rebuilding or using the scale or type of infrastructure we have now. The best you could hope for is to survive the first chaotic year and build a network of people to get basic amenities and set up a viable community in the second year. 

Year 3 and 4 would be a case of trying to set up a localised agricultural economy. No good having carrots in Norfolk, cabbage in Lincolnshire, apples in kent and wheat in Wiltshire. This stage would also be for large scale foraging. The fleet of 40 trucks going to the power station and loading up with coal, etc. Finding all the Land Rover parts in the nearby area, etc. The clearing of nearby warehouses and sheds to fill with potentially useful items.

It's around this time that politics and violence might occur. Two small bands of scavengers could probably co-operate over a warehouse. But two large organised groups appearing with trucks to the same depot would be a different matter. It may not go bad though. Some deal might be made. An opportunity for a trading deal or other cooperation may occur. It would depend on the personailities and the ethos of each community.


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## Idaho (Feb 11, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Why?  There are only about 50k people alive in all of the island of Britain.  The roads are hardly going to fall part through over use.  The biggest problem facing the roads will be them getting over grown, it would be fairly easy to maintain the main roads from somewhere like Selby (for Drax's coal reserve decades worth for so few people) to wherever people are.  Even pothole filling and basic maintenance would be easy enough to have up and running within a couple of years for the most necessary roads.



A couple of years of frosts and weeds growing on the tarmac and the roads will fall apart suprisingly quickly.


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## Idaho (Feb 11, 2010)

free spirit said:


> best place for society to reform power wise would probably be north west wales around the Dinorwig and festiniog pump storage stations, as with the amount of wind also in the area a few people with a reasonable understanding of things could probably isolate that area of the grid and get it functioning again, and keep it maintained.



You have the whole country to choose from and you want to set up a community in the coldest wettest and most innaccessable part with crap soil and near a nuclear power plant


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## maldwyn (Feb 11, 2010)

Wouldn't there be pockets of people still unaffected by the virus (beside those hiding in corporation evil); crews on nuclear subs, the space station, possibly researchers in Antarctica - any others?


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## rover07 (Feb 11, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Wouldn't there be pockets of people still unaffected by the virus (beside those hiding in corporation evil); crews on nuclear subs, the space station, possibly researchers in Antarctica - any others?



But when they returned to civilisation they would catch the virus too.


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## Divisive Cotton (Feb 11, 2010)

Idaho said:


> You have the whole country to choose from and you want to set up a community in the coldest wettest and most innaccessable part with crap soil and near a nuclear power plant



yeah! I'd make my way to the south-west and recolonised Cornwall


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## rover07 (Feb 11, 2010)

Divisive Cotton said:


> yeah! I'd make my way to the south-west and recolonised Cornwall



Falmoth would be good, a small port with fuel storage facilities.


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## Idaho (Feb 11, 2010)

rover07 said:


> But when they returned to civilisation they would catch the virus too.



The virus would need living vectors. If they have all died, then the virus will be dead. Unless it's some super in the air everywhere kind of thing.




Divisive Cotton said:


> yeah! I'd make my way to the south-west and recolonised Cornwall



Cornwall would have been a good choice a few hundred years ago - when the mineral deposits were accessable. However the soil isn't great, and it's fairly inaccessable. Although there could be a case made for sea links.


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## Iguana (Feb 11, 2010)

Idaho said:


> A couple of years of frosts and weeds growing on the tarmac and the roads will fall apart suprisingly quickly.



Sure but there is less than 0.1% of the population left, that's less than 50,000 people.  The majority will gather together once a suitable location has been chosen and the word has gone out, which it would through radios.  There would be people who want to do their own thing but most will want to get a civilisation back on it's feet and people will join together to do that.  The odds are that a large town in a fertile area, near the mouth of a river, and the surrounding villages would be chosen.  Then all you need is to keep one stretch of road in decent condition, between where the coal is and where you want to live.  Or has been suggested the river and canal networks would also be good for safe and easy transport.


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## BlackArab (Feb 11, 2010)

Idaho said:


> A couple of years of frosts and weeds growing on the tarmac and the roads will fall apart suprisingly quickly.



It's amazing what two weeks of snow and ice have done to the roads round my way


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## BlackArab (Feb 11, 2010)

Sod the coal malarkey! there's enough wood to burn in all the abandoned buildings to keep me warm, that some weapons and a stash of black hair products to bribe any New Labour survivors will do me..


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## rover07 (Feb 11, 2010)

Sea and river transport would be the way to go after a couple of years. With small settlements round the coast scavaging the interior and harvesting wood/crops.


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## rover07 (Feb 11, 2010)

Plymouth for the naval base and possible returning submarines


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 11, 2010)

rover07 said:


> Sea and river transport would be the way to go after a couple of years. With small settlements round the coast scavaging the interior and harvesting wood/crops.



Near to the coast would certainly be the best place and, as I have earlier mentioned, the Isle of Wight perhaps being the best place of all to settle for all sorts of reasons not least the fact that it has a lot of propertys with independant heating systems due to the lack of piped gas.

Personally I would be looking to get over the channel and make my way to warmer climes. Too bloody cold in this country.


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## Idaho (Feb 11, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Near to the coast would certainly be the best place and, as I have earlier mentioned, the Isle of Wight perhaps being the best place of all to settle for all sorts of reasons not least the fact that it has a lot of propertys with independant heating systems due to the lack of piped gas.
> 
> Personally I would be looking to get over the channel and make my way to warmer climes. Too bloody cold in this country.



Even an apocalypse couldn't push me to live in Plymouth or the Isle of Wight


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## BlackArab (Feb 11, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Near to the coast would certainly be the best place and, as I have earlier mentioned, the Isle of Wight perhaps being the best place of all to settle for all sorts of reasons not least the fact that it has a lot of propertys with independant heating systems due to the lack of piped gas.
> 
> Personally I would be looking to get over the channel and make my way to warmer climes. Too bloody cold in this country.



On the independant heating tip, wouldn't the Scilly Isles have the same set-ups? I like the idea of them as they would benefit from the Gulf Stream and be close enough for foraging trips to the mainland.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 11, 2010)

BlackArab said:


> On the independant heating tip, wouldn't the Scilly Isles have the same set-ups? I like the idea of them as they would benefit from the Gulf Stream and be close enough for foraging trips to the mainland.



I would guess so but the Isle of Wight would be much handier for foraging trips back to the mainland having to make the assumption that your sailing skills are not up to much. It would also have a lot more stuff available itself.

As part of a creative writing exercise I wrote a fictional 'blog/diary' based around a pandemic senario. It was only done as way of getting into the habit of writing every night and is not really in a publishable format but I enjoyed doing it, even though it seemed to take on a life of its own.

http://dontdream.blogspot.com/

If you have minor OCD about this whole post apoc thing it might be of some interest.


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## Mr Moose (Feb 11, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> I would guess so but the Isle of Wight would be much handier for foraging trips back to the mainland having to make the assumption that your sailing skills are not up to much. It would also have a lot more stuff available itself.
> 
> As part of a creative writing exercise I wrote a fictional 'blog/diary' based around a pandemic senario. It was only done as way of getting into the habit of writing every night and is not really in a publishable format but I enjoyed doing it, even though it seemed to take on a life of its own.
> 
> ...



Its not without its interest, but I got bored after a run of your wine references you big dullard.

Its the end of the world and you are showing off like a vacuous aesthete.

I don't think anyone would refer to a death of someone close (the narrator's child?) as their 'tragic' death btw. Reporters refer to 'tragedies'. 

Still fair play for putting it out there.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 11, 2010)

Mr Moose said:


> Its not without its interest, but I got bored after a run of your wine references you big dullard.
> 
> Its the end of the world and you are showing off like a vacuous aesthete.
> 
> ...





It was just an exercise to get me writing every day and to try and get an obsession out of my system. But it could do with a hefty old polish, that I would agree with. Still I enjoyed writing it.


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## free spirit (Feb 11, 2010)

Idaho said:


> You have the whole country to choose from and you want to set up a community in the coldest wettest and most innaccessable part with crap soil and near a nuclear power plant


tbf, the nuclear power plant has been shut for some time, so isn't really likely to be a problem, but on checking that out I've found out there's also a hydro-electric dam near the old nuclear plant as well, which would go nicely into my north wales elastic trickery grid.

and wet is good for drinking, reliable power generation, irrigation of crops etc etc

most of the houses in the area will have log fires / log boilers / log stoves of some description, and most of the survivors would have some idea how to work the land, build stuff, fix stuff etc unlike anywhere in the south east which would just be full of incompetent little hitler type ex civil servants / bankers / lawyers building up slave armies to dig for coal or something.

inaccessible's also good as it would give a decent warning of the inevitable invasion of power hungry jealous london bankers once word got out that we'd got a fully functioning society up and running.


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## Idaho (Feb 11, 2010)

free spirit said:


> tbf, the nuclear power plant has been shut for some time, so isn't really likely to be a problem, but on checking that out I've found out there's also a hydro-electric dam near the old nuclear plant as well, which would go nicely into my north wales elastic trickery grid.
> 
> and wet is good for drinking, reliable power generation, irrigation of crops etc etc
> 
> ...



Bankers? Why would there be an inevitable invasion of bankers?


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## free spirit (Feb 11, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Bankers? Why would there be an inevitable invasion of bankers?


you just know the bastards would survive somehow, them and the politicians and civil servant. odds on there's a nuclear bunker under canary warfe and another somewhere in the city, plus westminster / whitehall for them all, fully kitted up with all mod cons and 5 start dining.

They'd all be in there for a couple of years waiting for the living dead to die off, meanwhile we'd have just about got us a proper anarchist society up and running, when these bastards emerge from the nuclear shelters to announce that they're the government and we must bow to their authoritiiiiiii again or else. Guarantee the fuckers would still have at least one nuke left for any part of the country that wasn't up for that idea as well.


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## free spirit (Feb 11, 2010)

actually, I've changed my plan to finding the nuclear bunkers and burning the fuckers out in a pre-emptive strike, then doing the wales thing.


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## Idaho (Feb 12, 2010)

Actually I think that there probably would be some attempt by officials/army to reassert power and authority (essentially lay claim to the food surplus that our new communities would create). Attacking them pre-emptively might be an option, but that would depend on how well armed and provisioned they were. Chances are that they would be fairly well armed and provisioned. A more sensible strategy might be to assasinate their key figures and to try and get some of the army people to defect.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Near to the coast would certainly be the best place and, as I have earlier mentioned, the Isle of Wight perhaps being the best place of all to settle for all sorts of reasons not least the fact that it has a lot of propertys with independant heating systems due to the lack of piped gas.


Oil powered heating requires oil deliveries.  If the road system is due to crumble, you don't want to rely on that for too long.

What you need seek out is a National Trust house.  Here's why: these have their old kitchens preserved, all ready to use. Or anyway without too much repair.  So you've got solid fuel stoves, and all the kitchen equipment.  Butter churns.  Utensils designed for non electrical living. That sort of thing.  Also, they will have been built in sites chosen for their water supply.  They may be hooked up to the mains now, but if it's an old building, it'll be where it is due to a water supply. 

Furthermore, they'll have kitchen gardens, probably still under some sort of cultivation from NT staff.  So to get back to productivity won't be a from-scratch job.  I know a few with their own orchards, too.

Many are within farm land, too.  So there may be livestock available.

If you choose well, you'll have little problem getting it up and running again. A big house lends itself to community living, with the economies of scale that go with that.  

Furthermore, they'll have an established library, and probably a grand piano.  I'd be hitting the music shops, looking for guitar strings in sealed packaging.  Enough to last years and years.  Because you aren't going to be able to make them.  Or, it certainly won't be a priority to do so.


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## belboid (Feb 12, 2010)

no one seems to have been to a library yet.  it'd be one of the first places i'd go, unless everyone ws just so lucky they bumped into survivalist experts after a couple of days.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 12, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> What you need seek out is a National Trust house.  Here's why: these have their old kitchens preserved, all ready to use. Or anyway without too much repair.  So you've got solid fuel stoves, and all the kitchen equipment.  Butter churns.  Utensils designed for non electrical living. That sort of thing.  Also, they will have been built in sites chosen for their water supply.  They may be hooked up to the mains now, but if it's an old building, it'll be where it is due to a water supply.
> 
> Furthermore, they'll have kitchen gardens, probably still under some sort of cultivation from NT staff.  So to get back to productivity won't be a from-scratch job.  I know a few with their own orchards, too.



A good call. Any sort of 'heritage' museum will also have a value as well even if just to provide the templates for tools and so on that would be required again.

My friends on the IOW actually have a coal/wood fueled heating system and I understand that is more common than oil filled heating.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

belboid said:


> no one seems to have been to a library yet.  it'd be one of the first places i'd go, unless everyone ws just so lucky they bumped into survivalist experts after a couple of days.


Yes, I've got a library.  I'd add to it from all the deserted bookshops and public libraries.  Medical books will be important.  And John Seymour's Good Life style books.  They'll tell you about small holding, cheese making, cider making and so on.

That's another thing, the big house will have apple storage facilities.  You need cool buildings with slatted shelving.  That'll be all there.  Why build new, when you can use what's already there?

Clothes, too.  Yes, eventually, weaving will be important.  But all those clothes shops can be systematically harvested.


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## belboid (Feb 12, 2010)

great, stuck in late noughties fashions for perpetuity


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> My friends on the IOW actually have a coal/wood fueled heating system and I understand that is more common than oil filled heating.


Maybe so on the IOW.  But your tribe will be there.  My tribe will be in Chatsworth, or something like that.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

belboid said:


> great, stuck in late noughties fashions for perpetuity


  Books on darning will be sought after.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2010)

You could take and hold Northampton School For Boys. The district is surrounded by big old buildings, it'd be murder for anyone trying to attack you. Real urban street fight bloody murder.

In fact if you wanted the command of n'pton come the apocalypse you would be advised to mount heavy artillery on the Express Lifts Tower. Wide range of pwnage.


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## belboid (Feb 12, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Maybe so on the IOW.  But your tribe will be there.  My tribe will be in Chatsworth, or something like that.



piss off, we're having Chatsworth, repayment for overcharging us to take the kids there


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 12, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Maybe so on the IOW.  But your tribe will be there.  My tribe will be in Chatsworth, or something like that.



Mine wont.

Mine will be in the Adriatic, living on the Islands off the Croatian coast. Good weather, plenty of fresh water wells, abundant seas, olive trees everywhere and so along with plenty of land already cultivated and most houses having wood fired stoves due to earlier issues with an unreliable electricity supply.

Thats where I am off to. 

Sod this country for a game of post-apocalyptic soldiers.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

belboid said:


> piss off, we're having Chatsworth, repayment for overcharging us to take the kids there


Fine.  There's 200 hundred houses in the National Trust alone.  Never mind English Heritage, NTS, Historic Scotland, and so on.


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## belboid (Feb 12, 2010)

damn right.  You bleeding lot, moan on about wanting independence for years, then as soon as there's a little bit of apocalypse it's straight down here for our country houses...


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

belboid said:


> damn right.  You bleeding lot, moan on about wanting independence for years, then as soon as there's a little bit of apocalypse it's straight down here for our country houses...




"It's England's Mansions!"?


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

I'd build up a good DVD collection, too.  If you do get some kind of electricity generation up and running, it'd be good to have some decent films and series box sets.


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## belboid (Feb 12, 2010)

tho not either series of _Survivors_


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

belboid said:


> tho not either series of _Survivors_




I've just taken delivery of the 70s series, in its entirety.  I'll let you know if it lives up to my memory of it, and whether my wife leaves me.


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## Idaho (Feb 12, 2010)

I like the country house idea. But will want one down here in Devon. Plenty of good land, rivers, mild climate, near the sea, good transport links to a few towns and cities for scavenging.


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## free spirit (Feb 12, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Actually I think that there probably would be some attempt by officials/army to reassert power and authority (essentially lay claim to the food surplus that our new communities would create). Attacking them pre-emptively might be an option, but that would depend on how well armed and provisioned they were. Chances are that they would be fairly well armed and provisioned. A more sensible strategy might be to assasinate their key figures and to try and get some of the army people to defect.


block the airholes and weld the lids shut?

actually do you reckon we could get a convincing enough false alarm now to get them into their bunkers?


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## free spirit (Feb 12, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I've just taken delivery of the 70s series, in its entirety.  I'll let you know if it lives up to my memory of it, and whether my wife leaves me.



does she not have any relatives that she's not seen for a while?


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

free spirit said:


> does she not have any relatives that she's not seen for a while?


Oh, she'll say she's going back to her mother's, all right.


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## Idaho (Feb 12, 2010)

The only problem with the country house commune model - apart from the fact that it would be a nightmare of bitching and politicking. It would be a relatively small community and perhaps not large enough to support specialists. Unless of course those specialists are part time.

Would you go for the 150 person 'band' or try and create a larger community in a medium size village?



Oh and another thing for the list - raid the firestation for a fireengine and lots of heavy duty clothing and breathing aparatus. Smashing down doors and clearing out rat covered corpses would require them.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2010)

I've just watched episode 1 of the original series with my younger daughter; I'd have been around her age when I last saw it!

Anyway, God they're all posh.  I mean, I thought the remake was middle class, but these dudes are _posh_.    And it's very mannered and stilted.  I'll get used to that, though.  I'm remembering the themes now, though.  The setting up was not dissimilar to the current series.  But already there are different concerns being floated.  Interesting.


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## Sigmund Fraud (Feb 13, 2010)

It was very haughty and all the upper middle class characher assumed control and the rest let them assume control - which didn't ring true in the strife laden 70's - but the great thing about the ep1 of the 70s series is the growing sense of panic amidst everyones general complacency.  They did that by phasing the deaths over a longer period, hightening the drama.

In the new series everyone died overnight - there was no need to rush the end of civilisation but for some reason they decided to get it over with in about 30 minutes, setting the tone for the general writing stupidity which runs through the new series.  Can't believe its getting 5 million + ratings, but I suppose as long as it does why should anyone stray from the formula?


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## maldwyn (Feb 13, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> God they're all posh.  I mean, I thought the remake was middle class, but these dudes are _posh_.


Lucy Fleming is Celia Johnson's daughter


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## 8den (Feb 13, 2010)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> It was very haughty and all the upper middle class characher assumed control and the rest let them assume control - which didn't ring true in the strife laden 70's - but the great thing about the ep1 of the 70s series is the growing sense of panic amidst everyones general complacency.  They did that by phasing the deaths over a longer period, hightening the drama.
> 
> In the new series everyone died overnight - there was no need to rush the end of civilisation but for some reason they decided to get it over with in about 30 minutes, setting the tone for the general writing stupidity which runs through the new series.  Can't believe its getting 5 million + ratings, but I suppose as long as it does why should anyone stray from the formula?



Look no matter how bad current survivors is, keep in mind this solitary fact. _Freema Agyeman could have survived and been in it._

As to old survivors wait till the hippy from the commune turns up.


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## free spirit (Feb 13, 2010)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> Can't believe its getting 5 million + ratings, but I suppose as long as it does why should anyone stray from the formula?


it's a testament to how utterly shit everything else on the telly is these days IMO.


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## Idaho (Feb 13, 2010)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> In the new series everyone died overnight - there was no need to rush the end of civilisation but for some reason they decided to get it over with in about 30 minutes, setting the tone for the general writing stupidity which runs through the new series.  Can't believe its getting 5 million + ratings, but I suppose as long as it does why should anyone stray from the formula?



It could have been done so much better in so many ways. They could have done the whole death of everyone in flashbacks. Would have made it more impactful and could have told each personal story. It's almost completely linear. As it is, they are stuck with the relatively poor impact of the original set up.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 13, 2010)

Idaho said:


> It could have been done so much better in so many ways. They could have done the whole death of everyone in flashbacks. Would have made it more impactful and could have told each personal story. It's almost completely linear. As it is, they are stuck with the relatively poor impact of the original set up.


Having now watched two episodes of the original series, it looks to me like for the remake, they've taken all the character encounters and discarded the meaning.  Like the new Abby met the guy at the outwards bound course Peter was on, and it was just "Och, you're mobile phone won't work any more".  Whereas the encounter in the original was about the future of society and relearning skills.  It gives old Abby her mission.  New Abby just has "find Peter".


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## danny la rouge (Feb 14, 2010)

Now I've watched four episodes, I think I can safely say that once you get past the terribly posh accents, and the 70s staginess, it is indeed vastly superior to the remake.


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## 8den (Feb 15, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Now I've watched four episodes, I think I can safely say that once you get past the terribly posh accents, and the 70s staginess, it is indeed vastly superior to the remake.



Seriously? There are 5 minute discussions about crop rotation in the original.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2010)

8den said:


> Seriously? There are 5 minute discussions about crop rotation in the original.


Not in any episodes I've seen so far.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 15, 2010)

I would love to know what the difference between the production costs for the original and this new remake are.

For me the main difference between the two has been that the first one had a lot more focus on the long term impact of the pandemic with the characters speculating from episode 1 on how things would change where as this second one just barely touches on it.

To be fair to the new version, I think that in someways the survivors would at least to start with be primarily concerned with day to day living as opposed to wondering about the whys and whats of it all with a mass case of PTSD causing most people to not really have a clue about what to do next.

As to the country house commune notions, well its nice in theory but people would have to start gathering in larger numbers even if it was just to give the gene pool a chance along with the need to allow specialisation for people to start training to be Doctors and so on. 

Within 5 years any sort of community with less than 500 would be doomed to ultimate failure and I think that you may well see a form of centralised national government back in control within say 20 years. 

People would crave civilisation and would seek to recreate what they had lost. There would be no radical rethink and any 'Anarchist' community would soon implode under its own contradictions.


----------



## 8den (Feb 15, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Not in any episodes I've seen so far.



It starts around episode 7-8, when they start the commune.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> any 'Anarchist' community would soon implode under its own contradictions.


"Fact".  

I love it when people make unsupported assertions.


----------



## belboid (Feb 15, 2010)

There'll be 'some sort' of centralised government control wel within twenty years methinks.  How much actual power and sway it would hold over people would be another matter.

& don't forget, most of the time, actual doctors aren't actually necessary. Forget long-term illnesses, you're just going to die from those, tough. But the day to day injuries and diseases could be treated by any half competent nurse, or even someone with a first aid badge .  Especially if they'd raided a library for the medical texts.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 15, 2010)

belboid said:


> & don't forget, most of the time, actual doctors aren't actually necessary. Forget long-term illnesses, you're just going to die from those, tough. But the day to day injuries and diseases could be treated by any half competent nurse, or even someone with a first aid badge .  Especially if they'd raided a library for the medical texts.



I think you overestimate how much knowledge will be lost. With a doctor and a chemist you could probably cover 95% of the medical problems. Even do modest surgery. Trying to treat people out of books isn't going to cut it most of the time.

I think that a sufficiently organised community which farmed and traded successfully and recruited well, could retain a large degree of technological skill. Initially this would be based on tech produced by others. But once the community got to a certain size and stabilised the immediate requirements, I think that producing techonological products themselves would be very possible. The only question would be about raw materials. But I think international trade could resume.

As for a centralised state reforming. I think that it might - but there is no reason why it would form on the old boundaries. Our theoretical communities would be proto-states.


----------



## Stigmata (Feb 15, 2010)

Statistically there should be more than 100 medical doctors left in the UK


----------



## rover07 (Feb 15, 2010)

...and 140 postmen. Rebuilding civilisation! Just like Kevin Costner though i doubt many can ride horses


----------



## rover07 (Feb 15, 2010)

I dont think a centralised national government would be necessary.

There would be coordination and cooperation between settlements, trading and sharing resources but no need for overall control.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 15, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Like the new Abby met the guy at the outwards bound course Peter was on, and it was just "Och, you're mobile phone won't work any more".  Whereas the encounter in the original was about the future of society and relearning skills.  It gives old Abby her mission.  New Abby just has "find Peter".



I must watch that scene again because I seem to remember the fella telling her a bit more than that mobile phone bobbins, more like what you say is in the original. Which I never saw


----------



## Idaho (Feb 15, 2010)

rover07 said:


> ...and 140 postmen. Rebuilding civilisation! Just like Kevin Costner though i doubt many can ride horses



A civilisation based on stealing stuff, knocking off early and being grumpy?


----------



## belboid (Feb 15, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I think you overestimate how much knowledge will be lost.


It's not abnout the loss of knowledge, its about the loss of the specialist equipment needed to use that knowledge.



Stigmata said:


> Statistically there should be more than 100 medical doctors left in the UK



there are currently 92,000 docs in the UK. If we have only 0.1% of the population left that should mean there are almost exactly 100 left.  Plus a few retired ones I suppose


----------



## Idaho (Feb 15, 2010)

I don't think we have to lose all that equipment. I think we should be able to manufacture and make fairly complex machine parts. Just because we would currently order a part from a Luton supplier who gets imports from Japan of parts with Chinese components - doesn't mean that's the only way of doing it.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 15, 2010)

belboid said:


> there are currently 92,000 docs in the UK. If we have only 0.1% of the population left that should mean there are almost exactly 100 left.  Plus a few retired ones I suppose



Although in the event of virus meltdown, they will disproportionately hit.


----------



## belboid (Feb 15, 2010)

no reason for that to be the case at all


----------



## Stigmata (Feb 15, 2010)

Idaho said:


> A civilisation based on stealing stuff, knocking off early and being grumpy?



Yes, British culture should recover very quickly.


----------



## rover07 (Feb 15, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I don't think we have to lose all that equipment. I think we should be able to manufacture and make fairly complex machine parts. Just because we would currently order a part from a Luton supplier who gets imports from Japan of parts with Chinese components - doesn't mean that's the only way of doing it.



It depends how many people who know how to use and design machine tools survive. Most are now computerised and use rare metal compounds. Spare parts or salvaged parts would be good for many years but technology may have to take a few steps back, simple engines and cruder parts would be easier to develop and maintain.


----------



## rover07 (Feb 15, 2010)

Idaho said:


> A civilisation based on stealing stuff, knocking off early and being grumpy?



Most postmen would form raiding parties. 

Striking early in the morning and leaving no trace except a 'Sorry you were out when we called' card.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 15, 2010)

rover07 said:


> It depends how many people who know how to use and design machine tools survive. Most are now computerised and use rare metal compounds. Spare parts or salvaged parts would be good for many years but technology may have to take a few steps back, simple engines and cruder parts would be easier to develop and maintain.




Definately things would be simplified so that parts could be made in small workshops. But that design simplification process would in iteself be new technology.




rover07 said:


> Most postmen would form raiding parties.
> 
> Striking early in the morning and leaving no trace except a 'Sorry you were out when we called' card.



Striking maybe. Early? Not a chance


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Although in the event of virus meltdown, they will disproportionately hit.


Not if the people surviving are doing so due to immunity.  Immune doctors may have more contact more quickly with the virus, but they'll still be immune.


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 15, 2010)

8den said:


> Seriously? There are 5 minute discussions about crop rotation in the original.


 

Most of the original series seems to be available on YouTube.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 15, 2010)

rover07 said:


> It depends how many people who know how to use and design machine tools survive. Most are now computerised and use rare metal compounds. Spare parts or salvaged parts would be good for many years but technology may have to take a few steps back, simple engines and cruder parts would be easier to develop and maintain.



I would envisage a post pandemic Britain getting back to a level of late Victorian technology within 20 years. 

How long would modern technology still work ? Would say something like a boxed and sealed PC still be perfectly servicable in say 50 years time ?


----------



## 8den (Feb 15, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Most of the original series seems to be available on YouTube.



Thank ewe.


----------



## 8den (Feb 15, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> I would envisage a post pandemic Britain getting back to a level of late Victorian technology within 20 years.



Um how? I'd see it as still being in scavenger mode for ages. After a few years the cities would be safe again, and the tens of thousands of survivors could plunder like merry. 



> How long would modern technology still work ? Would say something like a boxed and sealed PC still be perfectly servicable in say 50 years time ?



Motherboard batteries and batteries would be fucked and dead.


----------



## belboid (Feb 15, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Most of the original series seems to be available on YouTube.



so _that's_ who Armsrong from Armstrong and Miller based himself on...


----------



## Idaho (Feb 15, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> I would envisage a post pandemic Britain getting back to a level of late Victorian technology within 20 years.
> 
> How long would modern technology still work ? Would say something like a boxed and sealed PC still be perfectly servicable in say 50 years time ?



We would use a mix of technologies. Microprocessor technology wouldn't be that relevant for a while, so would be neglected. But it would come back eventually.

Some of the renewable energy and communications tech would be much more relevant. The ability to make batteries or at least provide a stable electrical current would be pivotal.


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (Feb 15, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I don't think we have to lose all that equipment. I think we should be able to manufacture and make fairly complex machine parts. Just because we would currently order a part from a Luton supplier who gets imports from Japan of parts with Chinese components - doesn't mean that's the only way of doing it.



Where's your energy coming for all you this manufacturing? What about plant and premises?  And WHY would you need to do it?  Do you really need to manufacture things more than you need to make bread or mend clothes? Its the mark of a highly specialised and developed mass society that it can indulge in such activities.

If you just need to make parts for a plough or a pickaxe head then you'd be as well to have a blacksmiths forge where you could beat big bits of metal you could find into shape.  You're going to need to put shoes on your horses after all.  Anything bigger than that would only make sense after you had a well established, stable community of thousands of people, not hundreds.


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 15, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Most of the original series seems to be available on YouTube.



That stuff's much more interesting than the car chases, explosions and shootouts in the new series. I bet you can see that shit at any time of the day on one of the hundreds of satelite channels. The acting wasn't much better though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 16, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> That stuff's much more interesting than the car chases, explosions and shootouts in the new series. I bet you can see that shit at any time of the day on one of the hundreds of satelite channels. The acting wasn't much better though.


I'm not watching it until I come to that episode; I want to see it in context.  But, yes, I tend to agree with your general point.  I loved the show as a kid.  My own younger daughter loves to old series now; it's her 'pester power' that means I've watched so many episodes already.  So it clearly has enough to keep a ten-year-old interested.  Whereas, incidentally, gratuitous car chases and explosions don't.


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 16, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not watching it until I come to that episode; I want to see it in context.  But, yes, I tend to agree with your general point.  I loved the show as a kid.  My own younger daughter loves to old series now; it's her 'pester power' that means I've watched so many episodes already.  So it clearly has enough to keep a ten-year-old interested.  Whereas, incidentally, gratuitous car chases and explosions don't.



I'm tempted to dig out the old series myself, I'm sure I've got it on cd's somewhere. I remember it being a bit darker than the current one so maybe I'll watch when the kids are in bed. How old is your daughter Danny? My eldest son is eleven.

Ah she's 10. Maybe I'll let him stay up.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 16, 2010)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> Where's your energy coming for all you this manufacturing? What about plant and premises?  And WHY would you need to do it?  Do you really need to manufacture things more than you need to make bread or mend clothes? Its the mark of a highly specialised and developed mass society that it can indulge in such activities.
> 
> If you just need to make parts for a plough or a pickaxe head then you'd be as well to have a blacksmiths forge where you could beat big bits of metal you could find into shape.  You're going to need to put shoes on your horses after all.  Anything bigger than that would only make sense after you had a well established, stable community of thousands of people, not hundreds.



Well yes there is the issue of power production - which could be done in a number of ways.

I don't think we need to revert to horses and candles necessarily. We have the knowledge and understanding of what needs doing - and equipment and premises aren't going to be a problem.


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (Feb 16, 2010)

My point is you have far more pressing needs - such as keeping the human race going - before you need worry about producing technology with few skills, no energy and no raw materials for a market that doesn't exist yet.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 16, 2010)

It shouldn't be that hard to do that. We will have huge amounts of available land. Loads of livestock. Tons of agricultural equipment - seeds, etc. If you got 50 people organised you could produce a lot of food. Two large fields of wheat would give the whole community a year's bread. An acre of wheat can easily give 30 bushels - so 10 acres would be 300 bushels, and a bushel of wheat will give you 30 kilos of flour. 30 x 300 = 9000 kilos. That's 3.5 kilos a week per person. Plenty. 

Then you have the livestock. Herding that won't be a problem (although getting a bull might prove more of a challenge!) Tons of feed available until you can raise fodder crops for the winter.

Greenhouses can be set up - fields dug, etc. You could dedicate large areas to oil crops - sunflower or rape.

And the pressure would be off. 5 people could have the full time job of getting diesel, driving trucks and foraging. You would have a massive supply of tinned and dried food.


----------



## belboid (Feb 16, 2010)

You're good at making flour are you?  Know loads of other people who are?  No problems getting everyone to agree to this lifestyle?

Anyone who says 'x, y & z wouldn't be a problem' is a fantasist.  It's all doable, but to sday anything would be easy is moronic.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 16, 2010)

belboid said:


> You're good at making flour are you?  Know loads of other people who are?  No problems getting everyone to agree to this lifestyle?
> 
> Anyone who says 'x, y & z wouldn't be a problem' is a fantasist.  It's all doable, but to sday anything would be easy is moronic.



Yeah I know how to mill flour. It's a pretty simple process 

You wouldn't have to get anyone to agree to a lifestyle. People could do what they want. If they wanted to go elsewhere and live differently - then good on them.

I don't think that food would be a problem. I think the biggest problem would be that 90% of survivors would just give up. They would be too traumatised by the catastrophe to do much at all.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 17, 2010)

Last nights episode had to be a new low. Just plain dreary and now all conspiracy theory and not a very good one at that. 

My hope is that they just finish it off next week and leave things at that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 17, 2010)

Last night's episode of New Survivors:   OK.  So let's get this straight.  A virus hits the world so fast that everyone dies instantly (unlike the old series), but the government still has time to send out mysterious postcard clues to people it wants to save.  (Like the ex-husband of your girlfriend).  It gets them ordered up, printed out.  Someone thinks up a mysterious aphorism to have on them.  Flights are organized.  The postcards are posted.  First class, we presume.  The airfield has nice little pigeon holes fitted to take the cards neatly.  (Maybe the joiners were given seats on the flight in return for the quick work).

And where do they go?  - The whole world is infected.  Why haven't they taken the virus with them? - People who arrived for the flights on the right day but wrong time died.  So the virus was already in everyone who was going to get it - it'd need to be, for such a sharp peak.

On the plus side, though, the brave death of Sad Blonde Girl was a genuine surprise.  I still expected her to sit up and stretch as Abby splashed petrol on her.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm confused as to wagwan with doctor lady and psycho. It's like Buffy and Spike all over again


----------



## rover07 (Feb 17, 2010)

Its all gone a bit LOST with secret codes and mysterious flights. If you were organising the getaway of a few hundred personnel essential for the survival of the human race...would you really send postcards


----------



## Idaho (Feb 17, 2010)

I didn't watch it, and after the previous week had all but given up on it. Sounds like I really shouldn't bother.

Fucking BBC. Why do they pay writers to turn out such toss. There must be hundreds of talented story writers out there.


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 17, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Last nights episode had to be a new low. Just plain dreary and now all conspiracy theory and not a very good one at that.
> 
> My hope is that they just finish it off next week and leave things at that.



It was particularly poor, although I was relieved they got the obligatory capture and escape out of the way in the first five minutes. I guess their saving the drama for the final episode.


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 17, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> On the plus side, though, the brave death of Sad Blonde Girl was a genuine surprise.  I still expected her to sit up and stretch as Abby splashed petrol on her.



That can certainly seemed to hold a lot of petrol  I was sort of hoping that the SBG would appear at the window screaming 'I'm fine, I was only sleeping...................'


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 17, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Fucking BBC. Why do they pay writers to turn out such toss. There must be hundreds of talented story writers out there.


It really doesn't compare well with the old series, either.  OK, the acting in the old series is stagy, and they talk posh and clipped (now that I know that Lucy is Celia Johnson's daughter I keep expecting Greg to say to her, stiff upper lip, "Thank you for coming back to me"), and they clearly spent about £5 on it. But I have a ten-year-old who is gripped by it.  The remake may be slick, with effects, and the acting more to modern tastes, but there seems to be an assumption that the public is too stupid to take anything deeper and slower.  If a ten-year-old has the patience to let things unfold, then surely anyone has?  Why does it have to be so glib and vacuous?  Why do we need these faux-mysterious intrigues that just draw our attention to the unreality?  (Heroes does it, too, and they never turn out to be about anything; they are just devices to re-jig the format, and that alone).

If I was Julie Graham, the filming of the scenes at the airfield would be exactly the moment I finally phoned my agent: "Get me out of this, now!  I'm _Julie Graham_, for fuck's sake!"


----------



## dlx1 (Feb 17, 2010)

5/6 Dull the last one next week looks a lot better I hope.


----------



## smokedout (Feb 17, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> On the plus side, though, the brave death of Sad Blonde Girl was a genuine surprise.  I still expected her to sit up and stretch as Abby splashed petrol on her.



she never actually checked that she was dead


----------



## Mr Moose (Feb 17, 2010)

Why did Sarah not leave the cottage and go into quarantine elsewhere after her first minute of exposure? Madness. I'd have been out of there like Usain Bolt.

And as for pretty 'Lesbian' and psycho Maxie B, deary me.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 17, 2010)

smokedout said:


> she never actually checked that she was dead


She has Clever Eyes (TM).


----------



## dlx1 (Feb 17, 2010)

also Abby didn't por petrol over chickens. She must have got that 	
Jerry Can of Rambo


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 17, 2010)

The Bottomless Can.

It also annoys me that none of them go armed despite having had a fuckton of close shaves with people who do. Go fucking strapped! it is the end of the world ffs.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The Bottomless Can.
> 
> It also annoys me that none of them go armed despite having had a fuckton of close shaves with people who do. Go fucking strapped! it is the end of the world ffs.



Quite.

Everybody would at least be carrying a knife.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 17, 2010)

This is the person who we should express our rage too:

Adrian Hodges Interview


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (Feb 17, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> If I was Julie Graham, the filming of the scenes at the airfield would be exactly the moment I finally phoned my agent: "Get me out of this, now!  I'm _Julie Graham_, for fuck's sake!"


----------



## Stigmata (Feb 17, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> If I was Julie Graham, the filming of the scenes at the airfield would be exactly the moment I finally phoned my agent: "Get me out of this, now!  I'm _Julie Graham_, for fuck's sake!"



Star of TV's _Bonekickers_!


----------



## Iguana (Feb 17, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> First class, we presume.



They were sent by courier.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2010)

Iguana said:


> They were sent by courier.


DHL?  Still wouldn't bet on beating Royal Mail.  Especially to people they want to save outside of The City (whichever city that might mean).

I've now seen ten episodes of the original series, of which the last (Future Hour) was the weakest.  It just felt a bit cobbled together, and rushed.  And dealt a bit too neatly with the Tom issue.  Episode 9,though, was one of the ones I remember most vividly.  My ten-year-old daughter had a lot to discuss after (and during) it.  I had a couple of criticisms (one of which is anyway about the attitudes of the times when it was made), but on the whole it dealt with something the New Series has wimped right out of by projecting it all onto New Labour Psycho Woman, and refusing to deal with any post-Plague crime seriously.


----------



## Idaho (Feb 22, 2010)

Surely all the posties would have survived if it was sent by RM?


----------



## Gromit (Feb 22, 2010)

Although the drama created behind the coal mine episode was good I couldn't shake the feeling it was all a nonsense premise.

Would a mine really have enough customers to survice by barter.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Surely all the posties would have survived if it was sent by RM?


You survive by being immune or by being able to recover (like Abby).  If everyone (bar one) who was late for the flights died, then those on the flights also died: the disease took 3 days to reach the entire population of the world (lol), so the people on the planes caught it before getting to the airfield.

Only people who cut themselves off before the outbreak (like the Evil Research Scientists) could survive.  But even they were killed off when their seal was broken.


----------



## Iguana (Feb 22, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> DHL?



Dunno, Greg just said it was couriered to him, which was why he thinks it's probably not just some junkmail.



danny la rouge said:


> I've now seen ten episodes of the original series, of which the last (Future Hour) was the weakest.  It just felt a bit cobbled together, and rushed.  And dealt a bit too neatly with the Tom issue.



I've just watched the first series of the original over the last few days and it's much more compelling than the new crap.  Obviously it has it's flaws in terms of the politics and the sexism, it's a bit like watching the Famous Five as adults.  I also agree that The Future Hour was the weakest episode by far, especially in how it dealt with Tom.  I also found Tom the most interesting character in a lot of ways and he tended to have the best lines.  "I like Barney I do, we've become good pals.......Well, he's more like a pet really."


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Dunno, Greg just said it was couriered to him, which was why he thinks it's probably not just some junkmail.


Ah, you're right.  I remember that line now.

Old Greg was a helicopter pilot, ffs.  New Greg is like an accountant or something.


----------



## dlx1 (Feb 22, 2010)

Just seen an interview with Max Beesley on Alan Titchmarsh Show.

Looks different with hear, Interesting background was a drummer so some big bands.

Last one tomorrow night


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2010)

yeah, he's been in some awful films that tried to make use of his musical talents.  Cant remember the name of the british one, but he was nominated for a Razzie for his part in _Glitter_


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 23, 2010)

dlx1 said:


> Just seen an interview with Max Beesley on Alan Titchmarsh Show.
> 
> Looks different with hear, Interesting background was a drummer so some big bands.


Piano and vibes, too, I think.  He did some serious jazz; he's no slouch (despite having played with Paul Weller).  His character is one of the many missed opportunities of the New series.


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 23, 2010)

They should have brought back the original Tom Price, a little Welsh bloke who looked like Ken Dodd


----------



## belboid (Feb 23, 2010)

god was that Tom!  I only saw the five mins of the four crop rotation bit and was trying to guess who his modern day equivalent was supposed to be.  i thought it was Al


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 23, 2010)

It would have made the relationship with the doctor interesting


----------



## Iguana (Feb 23, 2010)

WTF?


----------



## yardbird (Feb 23, 2010)

Can anyone tell me what the plane was please?
Nought to do with the plot, just interested.


----------



## yardbird (Feb 23, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> It would have made the relationship with the doctor interesting



Yeah, she realised that Tom's way was the right way.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 23, 2010)

It gets worse.    Lost, and now feckin Rambo.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 23, 2010)

Tom now appears to be indestructible.

Naj can fire an MP5 smg a without any noticeable recoil.


----------



## Giles (Feb 23, 2010)

yardbird said:


> Can anyone tell me what the plane was please?
> Nought to do with the plot, just interested.



I think it was a Douglas DC3, often known as a "Dakota".


WW2-era civil airliner also used in massive quantities as a military transport plane.

Why they would get one of these museum pieces to fly about in, I don't really know......

Giles..


----------



## yardbird (Feb 23, 2010)

Giles said:


> I think it was a Douglas DC3, often known as a "Dakota".
> 
> 
> WW2-era civil airliner also used in massive quantities as a military transport plane.
> ...



That's what I thought and why I asked 
I thought it was a Dakota, cool but very old. ('bin in one )
Given the number of available more modern planes available, how stupid can you be???
More of this to come, do you think?
Another series?


----------



## free spirit (Feb 23, 2010)

yardbird said:


> That's what I thought and why I asked
> I thought it was a Dakota, cool but very old. ('bin in one )
> Given the number of available more modern planes available, how stupid can you be???
> More of this to come, do you think?
> Another series?


easier to repair with lower tech equipment... or just cheap to hire for a day


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 23, 2010)

Availability of pilots as well. The teched up modern aircraft might not be so accesible to a survivor who has had nowt but 50 hours flight time in a glider.


----------



## yardbird (Feb 23, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Availability of pilots as well. The teched up modern aircraft might not be so accesible to a survivor who has had nowt but 50 hours flight time in a glider.



Well the pilot seemed to know what he was doing. Nicely turning on the runway and low level banked turns as well.


----------



## Iguana (Feb 23, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Availability of pilots as well. The teched up modern aircraft might not be so accesible to a survivor who has had nowt but 50 hours flight time in a glider.



But these were the guys who had several months to plan their escape, from lots of sites all over the world.  They had their pick of the world's pilots and lots of time to recruit them.  They will have lots of available pilots.  

In their magic disease free land.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 23, 2010)

fuel as well. Don't modern aircraft run on high octane specialist shit whereas the relics can run deisel


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 23, 2010)

Nice how the people from the plane who were so paranoid about disease had employed that age old and unfailing quarantine procedure of 'don't come any closer'.

That always works.


----------



## yardbird (Feb 23, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Nice how the people from the plane who were so paranoid about disease had employed that age old and unfailing quarantine procedure of 'don't come any closer'.
> 
> That always works.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Feb 23, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Nice how the people from the plane who were so paranoid about disease had employed that age old and unfailing quarantine procedure of 'don't come any closer'.



LOL


----------



## _angel_ (Feb 24, 2010)

Is that meant to be it?


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Feb 24, 2010)

I hope so


----------



## Idaho (Feb 24, 2010)

Once again I feel vindicated in my decision not to watch any more of these


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## braindancer (Feb 24, 2010)

I watched the entire series but last night decided I couldn't be bothered with any more of the drivel and so didn't watch the final part.....  It would seem that I didn't miss much.


----------



## rover07 (Feb 24, 2010)

'Where's Tom? Where's Tom?'

'He got shot in the woods by Peter...then shot again fighting the gunman...maybe he's collapsed and is dying somewhere on the airfield!'

No. He's in the plane, having ran across the runway unseen by anyone else and is hiding with his sub machinegun...waiting to wreak havoc Rambo style when they land on the Island. 

The End.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 24, 2010)

rover07 said:


> 'Where's Tom? Where's Tom?'
> 
> 'He got shot in the woods by Peter...then shot again fighting the gunman...maybe he's collapsed and is dying somewhere on the airfield!'
> 
> ...


I know.  Jesus.  

I laughed as well, when at the end, we were told how to "find out more how the writers worked on the series".    I already know: _take a successful and compelling series from the 70s, then beat all intelligence out of it_.


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## dlx1 (Feb 24, 2010)

Tom Vs Sniper on rooftop there was no more then five feet away from each other firing automatic weapon and still missed. Why not shoot thour the hut! top part is made of glass

see again Tom can't shoot for shit


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## Idaho (Feb 24, 2010)

Can we have some kind of concerted campaign to make the writers feel bad about the mess they made?


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## DotCommunist (Feb 24, 2010)

Really quite annoyed by the whole 'kids firing guns' thing. Not from a moral standpoint, but from a realism ting. Peter manages a long range shot from a pistol that hits his victim straight in the heart. First time he has fired a pistol and he is some sort of crack shot.

Naj firing off the MP5 with no recoil whatsoever, like he was at a fucking quaser lazer game. SHITE.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 24, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Can we have some kind of concerted campaign to make the writers feel bad about the mess they made?



I reckon this season is more exciting than the previous; can't understand why some critics have it in for the programme 

Excellent TV.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 24, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I laughed as well, when at the end, we were told how to "find out more how the writers worked on the series".    I already know: _take a successful and compelling series from the 70s, then beat all intelligence out of it_.




I think what annoyed me the most was the whilst the original Survivors was very much of its time and that characters would have needed 'up-grading' to reflect the Britain of today the actual development of the plots and story lines was pretty strong along the themes they explored. Yes, it would have needed tinkering with and there could have been room for the introduction of saucy lesbians and the like but the structure was there to be built upon.

Instead we just get a very weak attempt at taking a pandemic senario and using it to try and make an attempt at a British version of '24' or 'Lost'.

Modern day production values, a new take on the characters and perhaps introducing some relevant themes and the BBC would have had a winner.

Instead they get something thats just worthy (surely nobody honestly believes that the casting was not much more than a box ticking exercise in terms of getting the right quotas) and more than a little dull.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 24, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> (surely nobody honestly believes that the casting was not much more than a box ticking exercise in terms of getting the right quotas) and more than a little dull.



Box ticking for what? I like the characters


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## DotCommunist (Feb 24, 2010)

jer said:


> Box ticking for what? I like the characters



The BBC's liberal multi-culty agenda obviously.

That it accurately reflects the make-up of a modern british city has passed some people by.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 24, 2010)

jer said:


> Box ticking for what? I like the characters



We have done it to death here but the make up the 'family' hardly seems to represent modern British demographics outside of the minds of BBC script writers.

Now I am not saying that it should have been all white and that how Britian is made up today compared to how it was in the original should be reflected along with perhaps offering some new takes on story lines but I feel that making it all feel so wonderfully multicultural played a far more important part than actually making it entertaining.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> That it accurately reflects the make-up of a modern british city has passed some people by.



No it does not. 

Or do you honestly think that any modern British city is 40% BEM ?


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## krtek a houby (Feb 24, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> No it does not.
> 
> Or do you honestly think that any modern British city is 40% BEM ?



I hadn't noticed there was any box ticking going on? I just think it's an enjoyable, if slightly ridiculous show.

Still confused why you bring race into it


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## DotCommunist (Feb 24, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> No it does not.
> 
> Or do you honestly think that any modern British city is 40% BEM ?



naj, playboy bloke and Patterson Joseph= 40%?


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## danny la rouge (Feb 24, 2010)

Can I just ask that you all watch the Orginal Series, series one, episode 9 Law And Order.

Thanks.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> naj, playboy bloke and Patterson Joseph= 40%?



3 out 7 main characters (cannot be arsed to do the maths) but its still not representative.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 24, 2010)

Not for white-flight ex-londoners living in dagenham, no.


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## rover07 (Feb 24, 2010)

Race didnt play any part in the programme. Even ignoring the point that both race and religion were meaningless in a post-apocalyptic world.

Or class...in fact the big problem with the series was nothing was discussed or explored very much.


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## hektik (Feb 24, 2010)

After reading the last couple of pages, I am glad that I made the executive decision to cease viewing.


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## Idaho (Feb 24, 2010)

jer said:


> I reckon this season is more exciting than the previous; can't understand why some critics have it in for the programme
> 
> Excellent TV.



It's a great and classic premise turned into brainless shit that doesn't make any sense designed to appeal to people who prefer their entertainment insubstantial and forgettable.


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## Iguana (Feb 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Not for white-flight ex-londoners living in dagenham, no.



As of the last census the Ethnic make-up of the UK is 92% white.  All other races including mixed races fell into the other 8%.  It will have changed a bit since then, but not by an awful lot.  It's not something that's obvious when you live in a city, but the vast, vast majority of people here are white.


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## free spirit (Feb 24, 2010)

Iguana said:


> As of the last census the Ethnic make-up of the UK is 92% white.  All other races including mixed races fell into the other 8%.  It will have changed a bit since then, but not by an awful lot.  It's not something that's obvious when you live in a city, but the vast, vast majority of people here are white.


but this was a group of Londoners where any less than 3/7 non-whites would have been pretty unrealistic (unless there was a racial angle to who had immunity and who didn't of course).


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## Gromit (Feb 24, 2010)

So we need to push more ethnic people out into rural areas. Is that whats being said here?

I think its a sad indicator of society that any of you have noticed the colour of the characters. I hadn't. They're just a bunch of survivors to me. Skin colour hasn't been relevant or followed any particular stereotypes as far as I've noticed.


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## free spirit (Feb 24, 2010)

Gromit said:


> So we need to push more ethnic people out into rural areas. Is that whats being said here?
> 
> I think its a sad indicator of society that any of you have noticed the colour of the characters. I hadn't. They're just a bunch of survivors to me. Skin colour hasn't been relevant or followed any particular stereotypes as far as I've noticed.


neither had I particularly, and I liked the fact that the programme had barely even touched on it as an issue


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 24, 2010)

jer said:


> I hadn't noticed there was any box ticking going on? I just think it's an enjoyable, if slightly ridiculous show.
> 
> Still confused why you bring race into it



A fair question.

To start with I admit to having what could be seen as a slightly odd attitude towards the BBC. I think that as an idea its brilliant and think the licence fee is perhaps the best value in terms of what you get out of it. 

However I also loathe what I perceive as its institutional liberal middle class bias which promotes its own very North London centric view of a multi-cultural Britain in which everybody sits around and weaves daisies in each others hair with the only fly in the ointment being those rather thuggish white working class heterosexual males. But I concede that I can go a bit Daily Mailish on this front.

So when I see a remake of a series like Survivors, which was instrumental in starting my whole love of the post-apoc genre, turn out to be such a weak wet flop, I get annoyed.

Take the character of Greg. In the original he was a white, nearing middle aged man. A skilled engineer and obviously middle class. But he was a difficult character to like but you had to admire him because he got things done. His back story had some rather sinister under-tones (when he returns to his marital home to find his wife dead its as though he gets a grim satisfaction it and even comments how he thought she might be still alive to somehow spite him even now) and as the show develops you see he is a man with a vision but also some rather unpleasant ways about him. Like him or loathe him but he was interesting. Had something to say about the world they found themselves in. 

Yet in this modern version he is really just nothing. There to make up the numbers. 

Now race and the issues around is has become far more relevance now than it was when the original was made. And that could have been used for some dramatic effect. Say the ‘family’ (what a stupid term in that context) come across a group of survivors who are rebuilding a community along strictly defined religious or racial lines.  There could have been all sorts of dramatic story lines and yet nothing. Its not even touched on. Instead every group is mixed and so on. It was just dreary.

All I saw was a piss poor attempt at doing a conspiracy thriller that swapped a mysterious plane crash for a mysterious plague. And to move this forward a collection of 2 dimensional characters for whom the casting seemed straight out of the BBC’s equalities handbook. 

1 black. Check.
1 homosexual (Lesbian) Check.
1 Muslim (kid) Check. 
1 sensible Scottish person. Check. 
1 mixed race character. Check.
1 white English lady (bit of a tart with a heart). Check.
1 psycho white working class character.  Check.

Now if you are going to have this sort of ‘ethnic’ make up then at least use it in a dramatic fashion rather than just pretending that everybody gets on with everybody else all of the time. 

If it had been any good then my grumbles would have just been me being me but as it was shite, then I feel justified in venting them because I dont believe that a character like Greg was cast for any other reason than his skin colour. 

Oh and DC, go and fuck yourself. I dont mind most insults but Dagenham ? Last time I was there was to join the back of the queue to fuck your mum.


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## Gromit (Feb 24, 2010)

So what would you prefer? The negative racist stereotypes of the gun weilding char to be a rasta yardie or a hip hop black gangstaaarrr?

The asian chars fundamentalist suicide bombers?

etc.

Is that what you are demanding Stoatboy?


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 24, 2010)

Gromit said:


> So what would you prefer? The negative racist stereotypes of the gun weilding char to be a rasta yardie or a hip hop black gangstaaarrr?
> 
> The asian chars fundamentalist suicide bombers?
> 
> ...



Not demanding but they may have been more interesting.

For example making the jail bird a Black guy. At first we see this sterotype and all that goes with it but perhaps he finds himself enjoying the chance to make a new start as a farmer, recollecting happier times as a kid when he went to stay with his grandparents back in Jamaica or similar. He was a product of his enviroment on a grotty council estate but now, freed from that, he can find some real peace living in the country. 

Have this idea that whilst the pandemic was a terrible tragedy for some it proves to be a release. A chance to start all over again. They touched on this but never really pushed it and yet its a common and very effective dramatic concept in a lot of post-apoc drama/fiction. 

And why not have one of the Muslim characters as being on the verge of being a sucide bomber prior to the plague hitting. He remains alive whilst almost everybody else dies. There is an irony to that. And perhaps makes him question this whole 'Insha'Allah' concept. 

Thats my point. These characters could have been so much more. Make use of what modern Britain is with all the stresses, strains and even advantages that it brings.


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## Gromit (Feb 24, 2010)

Over reaching as far as I'm concerned.

I'm more likely to connect with the programme if it is just what it is.

A bunch of ordinary everyday people with everyday attitudes having to cope with a very un every day situation.

Throw in a nutter for some contrast and some extra dramatic hurdles to overcome.

I'm none of the extreme characters you have suggested so why would I empathise or have any transfererence with any of them? Without such why would I want to commit to a whole series following such chars?


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## free spirit (Feb 24, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Not demanding but they may have been more interesting.
> 
> For example making the jail bird a Black guy. At first we see this sterotype and all that goes with it but perhaps he finds himself enjoying the chance to make a new start as a farmer, recollecting happier times as a kid when he went to stay with his grandparents back in Jamaica or similar. He was a product of his enviroment on a grotty council estate but now, freed from that, he can find some real peace living in the country.
> 
> ...


so you want the characters to be like the worst caricatures of a fevered daily mail version of what people should be like?

a black man who's been to prison, and a wannabe suicide bomber muslim

I think this says a lot more about you than it does about the beeb tbh


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 24, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Over reaching as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> I'm more likely to connect with the programme if it is just what it is.
> 
> ...



Well we obviously have very different ideas about what we want from drama. I want to see extremes, be it in characters or situations. 

I can see an arguement being made about using something as 'extreme' as a massive pandemic to show how 'everyday' people might react but for me the whole idea of 99+% of the population dropping dead in a matter of days was nothing more than a backdrop for a piss poor consipracy drama. It should have been the total story, not just an excuse to have them dashing around secret labs and trying to work out what devious post cards meant.


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## Idaho (Feb 24, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Not demanding but they may have been more interesting.
> 
> For example making the jail bird a Black guy. At first we see this sterotype and all that goes with it but perhaps he finds himself enjoying the chance to make a new start as a farmer, recollecting happier times as a kid when he went to stay with his grandparents back in Jamaica or similar. He was a product of his enviroment on a grotty council estate but now, freed from that, he can find some real peace living in the country.
> 
> ...



I do understand what you are saying - but there is a large dollop of  and  about it.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 24, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I do understand what you are saying - but there is a large dollop of  and  about it.



Fair enough.

But they bought up the examples in the first place and I just expanded on them.


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## Gromit (Feb 24, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Well we obviously have very different ideas about what we want from drama. I want to see extremes, be it in characters or situations.


 
Sometimes I do but when i do I want it to be in relevant settings based on true life and not something engineered on stereotypes.

I love The Wire but if they tried to do The Wire in Space I'd presume that they were just trying too hard to add edginess to their scifi.


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## Iguana (Feb 24, 2010)

free spirit said:


> but this was a group of Londoners where any less than 3/7 non-whites would have been pretty unrealistic (unless there was a racial angle to who had immunity and who didn't of course).



I don't think they are a group of Londoners, I thought they were from different areas and all left where they were and met up on the road.  Abby went to the Peak district before she met any of the others, and she seemed to meet Greg near there.  And even if they were all from London the ethnic make up of London is estimated to be 69% white (it was 71% in the last census) so it's still quite a bit off.  

It wouldn't bother me if nobody in the main group was white, they should choose the best actors.  But it does bother me a bit when the racial selection is a clear attempt to project an agenda, which it was in this case.  




			
				wiki said:
			
		

> In remaking the series, Adrian Hodges worked to avoid criticisms of the original series and he felt it was "important that a new version had a cultural and class mix that really represented the country as it is now", and the characters of Al and Najid were created because of this. The writers claimed that the new series retained the "spirit" of the original 1970s show, however Hodges concentrated on the hope and the humanity which was said to be an attempt to make it "less depressing" to watch.



I think forcing multiculturalism in the media must be very alienating for a lot of British people and could easily cause as many problems as it supposedly solves.


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## BlackArab (Feb 24, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I do understand what you are saying - but there is a large dollop of  and  about it.



Have to agree with this, I did read it and think wtf but think I've got it. There was one big opportunity to include Greg's race, and that was in the slavery issue especially especially considering NuLabour woman's role in his being there. I found it strange at the time but I'm guessing the writers bottled it.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 24, 2010)

I'll tell you what else they bottled.  Greg should play guitar and sing.  Old Greg did.


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## free spirit (Feb 24, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I'll tell you what else they bottled.  Greg should play guitar and sing.  Old Greg did.


that'd bring stoat boy out in a proper rage though. 

He obviously should have been a proper bling gansta rapper with a side line in break dancing and stabbing up people who dis his endz


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## Mr Moose (Feb 25, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> 3 out 7 main characters (cannot be arsed to do the maths) but its still not representative.



It seems to be passing you by that almost everyone they met was white.


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## Idaho (Feb 25, 2010)

It's fairly irrelevant what colour the characters are. What is significant is whether they are compelling characters. And none of the survivors characters were compelling at all. They were rubbish.


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## Scaggs (Feb 25, 2010)

Idaho said:


> It's fairly irrelevant what colour the characters are. What is significant is whether they are compelling characters. And none of the survivors characters were compelling at all. They were rubbish.



No, it was a waste of license fee revenue and in insult to Terry Nation's original idea.

I hope they don't try to re-do Blakes Seven next.


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## Gromit (Feb 25, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> I hope they don't try to re-do Blakes Seven next.


 
Thats Will Smith's next project.


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## Iguana (Feb 25, 2010)

Idaho said:


> It's fairly irrelevant what colour the characters are. What is significant is whether they are compelling characters. And none of the survivors characters were compelling at all. They were rubbish.



But don't you think that there is a possibility that the fact the the writers focused on ticking diversity boxes may have contributed to how shit the characterisation was as they didn't seem too bothered about the writing.  Look at that quote from Hodges, he sounds pretty scathing of the original series.  As if he watched and could only see how white and middle class everyone was, instead of seeing that they were real and interesting characters who made pretty compelling viewing.


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## Idaho (Feb 25, 2010)

Iguana said:


> But don't you think that there is a possibility that the fact the the writers focused on ticking diversity boxes may have contributed to how shit the characterisation was as they didn't seem too bothered about the writing.  Look at that quote from Hodges, he sounds pretty scathing of the original series.  As if he watched and could only see how white and middle class everyone was, instead of seeing that they were real and interesting characters who made pretty compelling viewing.



I don't think the box ticking in itself was what made it bad. I think a writer/director who's first thought is to box tick is likely to be shit. A symptom of the disease of poor writing, rather than the disease itself.


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 25, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I don't think the box ticking in itself was what made it bad. I think a writer/director who's first thought is to box tick is likely to be shit. A symptom of the disease of poor writing, rather than the disease itself.



In their defence I think that deliberately making a cast multicultural can have benefits because of the dramatic tensions that can spring up from that but to just put them in for 'colour' so to speak without then actually making them interesting is just very poor form. 

It would certainly have shut me up if the BME characters had actually done anything remotely interesting as opposed to just seemingly being there to make up the numbers. As it was the only character that I thought had anything to them was 'Tom Price'. 

He certainly was the only one who seemed to grasp the realities of the new world and the only one who you thought might be handy to have around, at least until you could get a proper justice system up and running again before banging him away again.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 25, 2010)

Initially, episode 1 of series one, Greg was mad switched on, had a jeep full of gear and was off to life on some deserted smallholding. Then he turned into a fucking liabilty cos he fancied the mumsy woman


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## Iguana (Feb 25, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I don't think the box ticking in itself was what made it bad. I think a writer/director who's first thought is to box tick is likely to be shit. A symptom of the disease of poor writing, rather than the disease itself.



True, but I do think that's what was going on here.


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## Idaho (Feb 25, 2010)

I reckon - in all honesty. A total muppet with no skill or experience, like me, could have plotted and written a better programme. And that's swearing.


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## Mr Moose (Feb 25, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Initially, episode 1 of series one, Greg was mad switched on, had a jeep full of gear and was off to life on some deserted smallholding. Then he turned into a fucking liabilty cos he fancied the mumsy woman



Has the smack of realism you all crave in that respect at least.


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## Idaho (Feb 25, 2010)

He turned into a liability because he, and the rest of them, gave up on the idea of setting up a place to live, and instead decided to drive round and round the same area endlessly getting captured and rescued, often twice per episode.


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## belboid (Feb 26, 2010)

finally watched it last night.  Even more pish than I would have guessed!  

Peter will clearly be the next Olympic shooting champ, two shots, two perfect hits!  Tho quite why a hard bastard like Tom would be knocked unconcscious by a bullet in his shoulder.  Or why even a cretinous evil corporate baddie would think that meant he was dead and therefore _left his fuck off big bastard gun behind_, i dont know


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## Cm7 (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm looking forward to see what Tom is up to on the next ep.

I suppose the doctor is now head over heels for him 'cos 'He's right all along' she said.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 26, 2010)

it's finished


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## belboid (Feb 26, 2010)

Cm7 said:


> I'm looking forward to see what Tom is up to on the next ep.
> 
> I suppose the doctor is now head over heels for him 'cos 'He's right all along' she said.



"He was right, Tom was right all along"

My favourite line in the whole series, I hope the actress begged them to change it.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> it's finished


I hope so.  There's certainly no 3rd series announced.


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## Cm7 (Feb 26, 2010)

belboid said:


> "He was right, Tom was right all along"
> 
> My favourite line in the whole series, I hope the actress begged them to change it.



Bit annoying (especially when she kept saying, 'it's over', 'it's finished', 'we're completely different'), but I quite like the relationship between Tom and the doctor.  The tensity of sexual attraction between them and all...


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## smokedout (Feb 26, 2010)

free spirit said:


> so you want the characters to be like the worst caricatures of a fevered daily mail version of what people should be like?
> 
> a black man who's been to prison, and a wannabe suicide bomber muslim
> 
> I think this says a lot more about you than it does about the beeb tbh



listen, what stoatbot is afraid to say because of the liberal multi-cultural fascists in control of the BBC (AND THE COUNTRY !!!!!!!!!!!!)

some of us just don't appreciate blacks and perverts being paraded across our television screens

and im sure most decent people would agree, but are too scared to say so in case the politically correct brigade label them RACIST


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## Stoat Boy (Feb 26, 2010)

smokedout said:


> some of us just don't appreciate blacks and perverts being paraded across our television screens




Its tedious blacks and perverts that I object to. Make them interesting and I aint bothered.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2010)

Stoat Boy said:


> Its tedious blacks and perverts that I object to. Make them interesting and I aint bothered.


Some of my best friends are tedious blacks and perverts.


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## smokedout (Feb 26, 2010)

i never realised you were such good friends with johnnycanuck


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## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2010)

smokedout said:


> i never realised you were such good friends with johnnycanuck


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## danny la rouge (Mar 15, 2010)

I'm now most of the way through Series 2 of Old Survivors.  There have been some cracking episodes, but it's not as good as Series 1.  There are lengthy absences of main characters, and the plotting can be more patchy.  The best episodes, so far, are the two London ones (featuring Trigger), and the worst is the Witch.  Partly this is because the main character (Mina) is a poor actor, but also the dialogue is unpolished and the scenes are oddly cut and directed.  This episode isn't representative, though.

Patrick Troughton turns up in one episode, as do Peter Duncan and Roy Cropper.

Still heaps better than the modern series.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 5, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm now most of the way through Series 2 of Old Survivors.  There have been some cracking episodes, but it's not as good as Series 1.  There are lengthy absences of main characters, and the plotting can be more patchy.  The best episodes, so far, are the two London ones (featuring Trigger), and the worst is the Witch.  Partly this is because the main character (Mina) is a poor actor, but also the dialogue is unpolished and the scenes are oddly cut and directed.  This episode isn't representative, though.
> 
> Patrick Troughton turns up in one episode, as do Peter Duncan and Roy Cropper.
> 
> Still heaps better than the modern series.


I've been rewatching the Classic Series. I got up to The Witch last night. I still agree that it's the weakest episode; it's so oddly paced. But I've revised my opinion on Series Two. I think it hold its own. 

My younger daughter really enjoyed discussing the issues raised by each episode when we watched it last time (can't believe it was nearly five years ago. God I'm so old). It's good for that - making you think about society from a different perspective.

I can't imagine ever rewatching the remake.


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## dlx1 (Feb 6, 2015)

I remember the last one I see the Jobserve ad bloke climbed onto a plane after they stared to fund post cards. So there any more after that or was shoe ended as low ratings.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 16, 2015)

Today is the 40th anniversary of the airing of the first episode, the Fourth Horseman.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 16, 2015)

Episode 1.


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