# Derren Brown Investigates



## ebay sex moomin (May 10, 2010)

apologies, been a bit slack in flagging this up- it's on on 4+1 at 11pm (Monday 10th)(ie in about 3 minutes), and thereafter on 4OD.

Tonight's ep- 'the man who contacts the dead'

Some good laughs here- of course, for Derren, debunking psychics and psychic ability is like shooting fish in a barrel, but there's some good moments, like when yer man tries to beat Derren is a psychic-off, and also his totally abysmal reading later in the show. I'm sorry, but I do enjoy seeing a "psychic" totally bombing


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## RaverDrew (May 10, 2010)

fake exposes fakes


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## ebay sex moomin (May 10, 2010)

Why's he a fake? He doesn't claim to be psychic. He uses a subtle blend of magic, misdirection, showmanship, and whatever the other one is


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## Lord Camomile (May 10, 2010)

ebay sex moomin said:


> Why's he a fake? He doesn't claim to be psychic. He uses a subtle blend of magic, misdirection, showmanship, and whatever the other one is


Psychology! 

I think Derren's great, but I'm not sure he gave thingy 'Power' rolleyes: btw) enough rope to hang himself, always left him a way out. Obviously someone like that will always try to find a way out, but the simple stuff like when Power said Derren had told him he'd not been in the house - fucking replay the video! "_There_, there is where I said I'd been in there before".


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## ebay sex moomin (May 10, 2010)

That's the one!


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## Lord Camomile (May 10, 2010)

He also employs the essence of Jelly Babies, but I didn't tell you that


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## N_igma (May 10, 2010)

Joe really annoyed me but then again so do all people who claim to speak to the dead. No you fucking can't speak to the dead and you're a cunt for giving people false hope.


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## ebay sex moomin (May 10, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> He also employs the essense of Jelly Babies, but I didn't tell you that


Have duly amended the tags


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## Lord Camomile (May 10, 2010)

ebay sex moomin said:


> there's some good moments, like when yer man tries to beat Derren is a psychic-off, and also his totally abysmal reading later in the show.


That really was fucking petty and undermined himself.

What was with his "I must go to the toilet first" thing before reading people? Do spirits hide in the U-bend


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## Lord Camomile (May 10, 2010)

ebay sex moomin said:


> Have duly amended the tags


Fuck it, I _knew_ there was a "c" in there 

*gets the editing tool out*


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## Stigmata (May 10, 2010)

I found it pretty uncomfortable to watch.

I missed the beginning- presumably the chap makes money from doing this?


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## Sesquipedalian (May 11, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I found it pretty uncomfortable to watch.
> 
> I missed the beginning- *presumably the chap makes money from doing this?*



Oh yes !
Lot's of money.
Enjoyed it,
A bit.


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## ethel (May 11, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> That really was fucking petty and undermined himself.
> 
> What was with his "I must go to the toilet first" thing before reading people? Do spirits hide in the U-bend



it's so he can have a nosey round people's houses


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## Santino (May 11, 2010)

I was hoping/expecting Derren to expose him more, set him traps to walk into, but I suppose that wasn't the point of the programme. He wanted to be seen to give the idiot a fair hearing. He doesn't need to convince people like me about psychics, but by being a bit less confrontational he may inspire less sceptical people to consider their beliefs.


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## vauxhallmum (May 11, 2010)

What was that Joe Faker person thinking of, allowing himself to be investigated by Derren Brown
Did he really think he would come out of it lauded as a genuine psychic? Idiot.
And that yellow dent in his head was really distracting.


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## FoxyRed (May 11, 2010)

Sorry, but it was obvious from the get go that the guy was a fake...
If Derren Brown had gone and saw Sally Morgan than I might have taken more notice.. someone who is a reputable psychic... 
This guy was just some idiot trying to make some money out of it.... 
Was so funny at the end when the woman he had a good reading from ...his sister lived next door... hahaha


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## The Groke (May 11, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> Sorry, but it was obvious from the get go that the guy was a fake...



They are _all_ fakes foxy. This guy, that guy and your mates granddad.

_All_ fakes.


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## tarannau (May 11, 2010)

Reputable psychic my arse

Sally Morgan is laughable fwiw. About as convincing as Yyvette Fielding and her prediliction for throwing pebbles about in dark rooms.


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## The Groke (May 11, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> reputable psychic...



This is an oxymoron.


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## teecee (May 11, 2010)

And the predictable excuses/cop out will start soon 

From Joe's  Website ..



> 10th May
> Tonight Joe appears on Derren Brown Investigates. Channel 4 at 10pm.
> All is not quite what it seems! More will be revealed on this site.



Cue an expose of how Derren lied and cheated and Mr Fame Hungry Psychic who could not possibly be wrong, oh no not the poor innocent likkle psychic


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## Lord Camomile (May 11, 2010)

teecee said:


> From Joe's  Website ..





> “The Man Who Sees Dead People”





> Sit back and enjoy the adventure of this website


Good lord...


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## Lord Camomile (May 11, 2010)

Of course, a cynic would say this is exactly why he did it.

Fuck knows what a psychic would say.


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## fogbat (May 11, 2010)

Still not on 4OD, ffs


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## dylans (May 11, 2010)




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## beesonthewhatnow (May 11, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> Sally Morgan... who is a reputable psychic


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## teecee (May 11, 2010)

dylans said:


>





I think that seals the argument better than any erudite wordsmith


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## Ax^ (May 11, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> someone who is a reputable psychic...


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## neonwilderness (May 11, 2010)

Just found this while Googling for his website.



> Joe:  ”I think most sceptics probably are paedophiles. I mean you’re sat around at 3am, plotting, aren’t you?  Do you deny that?”


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

If Derren is out to disprove mediumship, then perhaps he should pick on someone with a bit of a higher profile than Joe Power. If indeed cold reading is taking place, then perhaps Derren would be good enough to explain how he simulates mediumship.

In other words... if it annoys Derren so much, then spilling the beans about how it's done shouldn't be a tall order.

Derren, quite impressively, told a sitter where she had been on holiday. I would love to know how he did that.


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## FoxyRed (May 11, 2010)

Sorry but I disagree... my mates grandfather is the real thing


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## FoxyRed (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> If Derren is out to disprove mediumship, then perhaps he should pick on someone with a bit of a higher profile than Joe Power. If indeed cold reading is taking place, then perhaps Derren would be good enough to explain how he simulates mediumship.
> 
> In other words... if it annoys Derren so much, then spilling the beans about how it's done shouldn't be a tall order.
> 
> Derren, quite impressively, told a sitter where she had been on holiday. I would love to know how he did that.



Exactly what I said... he chose someone who is obviously a faker so it would make him look better.


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## _angel_ (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> If Derren is out to disprove mediumship, then perhaps he should pick on someone with a bit of a higher profile than Joe Power. If indeed cold reading is taking place, then perhaps Derren would be good enough to explain how he simulates mediumship.
> 
> In other words... if it annoys Derren so much, then spilling the beans about how it's done shouldn't be a tall order.
> 
> *Derren, quite impressively, told a sitter where she had been on holiday. I would love to know how he did that*.



He's a witch?

Is this being repeated?


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## Santino (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> In other words... if it annoys Derren so much, then spilling the beans about how it's done shouldn't be a tall order.



It seems to me that the programme was targeted at people who believe that psychic abilities and talking to spirits might be possible. If he had gone in full guns blazing it would put people on the defensive. I think the idea was to make people think about it for themselves.

But putting the whole programme together, all the pieces were there though for someone who was open to the sceptical point of view: cold reading techniques, fore-knowledge of his subjects, sneaking off to nosey around their photos. 

Derren was being a bit disingenuous by appearing to be open-minded about, but I understand why.


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## Santino (May 11, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> Sorry but I disagree... my mates grandfather is the real thing



How does life after death fit into the Second Law of Thermodynamics?


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## The Groke (May 11, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> Sorry but I disagree... my mates grandfather is the real thing




You can disagree that the Earth is round and water is wet too if it helps.

The fact remains;



The Groke said:


> They are _all_ fakes foxy. This guy, that guy and your mates granddad.
> 
> _All_ fakes.


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

Can't remember the name of the doctor they used on the show, Dr. Richard Wiseman???  They usually wheel out Chris French, but whoever it was, I seem to remember that he is a doctor of psychology.

And one thing that I keep hearing these experts say is that they can never be 100% sure that mental mediumship is fake.

I think ruling something out, because it doesn't fit in the jigsaw you are currently looking at, is foolish.


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## keithy (May 11, 2010)

he showed himself as a nasty little shit really didn't he?

Not even the intelligence to present himself as open, or to engage in actual discussion about how these things can be investigated etc etc. 

Throwing his toys out of the pram and making nasty digs at people when his readings were failing. I couldn't believe it when he threw it in about 'the affair' when the reading with that hollyoaks lass was over. Dickhead.


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## Teaboy (May 11, 2010)

Interesting programme.  I suspect the reason Derren ended up with Joe 'Power' is that all the other psychics saw a bad thing coming and declined to do the show.  Joe probably had just about enough arrogance to think he could carry it.

On the subject itself a very good friend of mine, an otherwise normal and intellgent guy recently attended a reading following the death of his father.  He was delighted with the outcome, his dad had spoke to him (through the medium) and put his mind at ease.  My friend is fully aware of the work of Derren Brown but he was making an active decision to believe.

Therefore my conclusion probably matches Derren's, whilist it's almost certainly a load of old cobblers, if it makes people happy then is it really doing any harm?


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## fogbat (May 11, 2010)

Comments on the Channel 4 site include this gem:



> i am training as a psychic/medium and was interested in your program i felt that joe power is more of a psychic claiming to be a medium a lot of people make a good living working that way true mediumship is about giving evidence i.e names / dates. makes no difference who is in the room i feel joe power is on an ego trip threre are rules set in place and regulations to follow as a medium one of them rules is personal responsability some of the things he was saying to that crowd was really personal he was talking of people comitting suiside thats a no no when we come across spirits who went that way we go around it in a different way that is not embarasing or hurt full to the person you are reading for and also for people who are in the audience and also we dont talk about peoples deep down secrets if hes not cairefull hes gonna get sude true spiritual work is in the spiritual churches theres two many people out there only interested in making money wether it be a good reading or bad there still gonna take your cash



aaand breathe...


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## The Groke (May 11, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Comments on the Channel 4 site include this gem:
> 
> 
> 
> aaand breathe...



*sude*

lol


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

The revelation about the hot-reading of Joe's sister's neighbour at the end was very funny! 

The thing is, you cannot be certain that mediumship is actually cobblers.  One clever magician, an obviously fake psychic and a few random readings don't really prove anything to me.


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## fogbat (May 11, 2010)

Plenty more lolsome comments.


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

http://badpsychics.co.uk/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=877

Lots of stories about Joe Power at "Bad Psychics".


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## QueenOfGoths (May 11, 2010)

Haven't seen the programme yet but we have it recorded. Not got much time for mediums, spiritualists myself.

Thought this was an interesting post from the C4 website commentating on how such things may not always be harmless

_PAUL on __10 May 2010 at 23:49_
_   As a psychologist working in Liverpool, I'm very concerned by what was shown on tonight's episode. Working with people who have experienced the loss of loved ones is not just a case of guessing or divining a few facts then saying "they send their love". Interestingly, I noticed severalpeople seeking readings displayed aspects of what some might call complex grief (e.g. William Worden), with traumatic, sudden, early or multiple deaths. Some of these more vulnerable individuals then appear to seek this medium again (and again and again?). Does this then form a dependant attachment with the medium, a chronic seeking of the loved one, and therefore perhaps a prolonged and more painful process of grieving? I suspect the answer more often than not is a desperately sad yes, and if so, then "Poor show" to you Mr Power. If you honestly believe in your abilities, and care about the people who pay your bills please consider above all else the ethical and psychological impact of what you do. And if not, then leave the good people of Liverpool to their loved ones, their families and friends, ministers, health professionals and those who truely have their best interests at heart.    
_


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## quimcunx (May 11, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> Sorry, but it was obvious from the get go that the guy was a fake...
> If Derren Brown had gone and saw Sally Morgan than I might have taken more



Perhaps you can write to Sally Morgan and your mate's grandfather asking them to volunteer to be investigated by Derren Brown.


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## souljacker (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> Derren, quite impressively, told a sitter where she had been on holiday. I would love to know how he did that.


 
Read Heat magazine?


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

souljacker said:


> Read Heat magazine?



There you go.   That's how he did it.

Hot-reading from reading Heat Magazine.


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> If Derren is out to disprove mediumship, then perhaps he should pick on someone with a bit of a higher profile



Ask yourself why those with higher profiles always refuse to be tested properly.


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## harpo (May 11, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Interesting programme.  I suspect the reason Derren ended up with Joe 'Power' is that all the other psychics saw a bad thing coming and declined to do the show.  Joe probably had just about enough arrogance to think he could carry it.
> 
> On the subject itself a very good friend of mine, an otherwise normal and intellgent guy recently attended a reading following the death of his father.  He was delighted with the outcome, his dad had spoke to him (through the medium) and put his mind at ease.  My friend is fully aware of the work of Derren Brown but he was making an active decision to believe.
> 
> Therefore my conclusion probably matches Derren's, whilist it's almost certainly a load of old cobblers, if it makes people happy then is it really doing any harm?



Like religious belief in general then.


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Ask yourself why those with higher profiles always refuse to be tested properly.



Professor Archie Roy (Glasgow University) did some double blind testing many years ago. Quite a few mediums got tested with positive results.

But no matter what credentials or method of testing is used, the sceptics always refuse to accept the evidence.  Why? Because mental mediumship is very difficult to prove, or disprove.

As much as I love Channel 4 and Derren, I do feel that testing one medium is not really testing anything. You need lots of mediums and lots of sitters.

Even Dr. Wiseman, who appeared in this show, was not prepared to say that mediumship was a falsehood.


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## Gingerman (May 11, 2010)




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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

They always pick shit mediums.

O'Keeffe is making loads of money off the paranormal. Not a reliable scientist.


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## Teaboy (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> Even Dr. Wiseman, who appeared in this show, was not prepared to say that mediumship was a falsehood.



Of course he wasnt, no sceptic can be 100% sure, it's essentially the same question as is there life after death?

Also after the Singh case with the Homeopaths I suspect most scientists will tread carefully for a while, free speech yay!


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

Exactly, no such thing as 100% certain. I'm 99.4% sure of that!


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## fogbat (May 11, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Of course he wasnt, no sceptic can be 100% sure, it's essentially the same question as is there life after death?
> 
> Also after the Singh case with the Homeopaths I suspect most scientists will tread carefully for a while, free speech yay!



Chiropractors.


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## Teaboy (May 11, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Chiropractors.



Knew I should have googled, couldent be arsed.


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> Professor Archie Roy (Glasgow University) did some double blind testing many years ago. Quite a few mediums got tested with positive results.



You've spouted this many times before, care to show us links to the papers where this research was published?


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

The results were published and peer reviewed, but as I remember at the time, I didn't have the money to purchase a back issue and googling did not produce any results.

It certainly wasn't on Channel 4, set up by a Houdini/Mesmer wannabe and probably the second worst psychic in Liverpool.


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

Charles Sibley is probably the worst psychic in Liverpool.


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## fogbat (May 11, 2010)

Just watching this now.

Joe Power's a nasty piece of work, isn't he?


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## belboid (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> The results were published and peer reviewed, but as I remember at the time, I didn't have the money to purchase a back issue and googling did not produce any results.



You're not very god at basic research then.  Two minutes shows me you are (almost definitely) referring to A Sense of Something Strange, Investigations Into the Paranormal (1992).  Roy, an astronomy professor connected to the Edinburgh Uni Koestler foundation, also makes a lot of money from his anti-skepticism.  And he's a _big_ fan of Gordon Smith, the Most Haunted presenter.  

I think thats enough to show the dubiousness of your one and only academic source. 


That Joe Power, what an obnoxious crook.


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## fogbat (May 11, 2010)

Googling brings up a lot of references to Archie Roy, inevitably largely woo-based.

Are these the papers you're referring to, urb?

-Roy, A. E. and Robertson, T. J.. (2001). A double-blind procedure for assessing the relevance of a medium’s statements to a recipient. Journal of the Society for Psychical Research

-Roy, A. E. and Robertson, T. J.. (2004) Results of the application of the Robertson-Roy protocol to a series of experiments with mediums and participants. _Not clear, but I assume the same journal_

I can't find a free version of the full-text yet.


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## danny la rouge (May 11, 2010)

I recorded the programme, and have just watched it.  What a scumbag that Joe was.


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## fogbat (May 11, 2010)

Like Shirley Ghostman, but with none of the charm.


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

belboid said:


> You're not very god at basic research then.  Two minutes shows me you are (almost definitely) referring to A Sense of Something Strange, Investigations Into the Paranormal (1992).  Roy, an astronomy professor connected to the Edinburgh Uni Koestler foundation, also makes a lot of money from his anti-skepticism.  And he's a _big_ fan of Gordon Smith, the Most Haunted presenter.
> 
> I think thats enough to show the dubiousness of your one and only academic source.
> 
> ...


Your research isn't perfect... Gordon Smith has never been a presenter of Most Haunted. 



fogbat said:


> Googling brings up a lot of references to Archie Roy, inevitably largely woo-based.
> 
> Are these the papers you're referring to, urb?
> 
> ...


Thank you, yes the ones with Trish Robertson.  Your use of the word "woo" speaks volumes. 



danny la rouge said:


> I recorded the programme, and have just watched it.  What a scumbag that Joe was.


Yep, a nasty piece, by the looks of him.


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## fogbat (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> Thank you, yes the ones with Trish Robertson.  Your use of the word "woo" speaks volumes.



Oh, I'm making no judgement on the papers 

Just that a lot of the sites that refer to them are, er, not especially rational in their argument


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## Obnoxiousness (May 11, 2010)

I'm not making a case for mediumship. I'm just pointing out that being sceptical means being open to possibilities, and not cynical and superior like some sceptics become.


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## belboid (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> Your research isn't perfect... Gordon Smith has never been a presenter of Most Haunted.


so sorry, i dont watch it, one of the things i read (The Times I think, such shoddy journalism) said he was, couldnt be arsed to check


urb said:


> I'm not making a case for mediumship. I'm just pointing out that being sceptical means being open to possibilities, and not cynical and superior like some sceptics become.



shoddy backtrack.  all mediums are utterly full of shit, unless they can prove otherwise


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## Lord Camomile (May 11, 2010)

One thought I had was that Brown could have done a 'side-by-side' reading, with Brown writing down his thoughts while Power did the reading, kind of like he does in his shows sometimes. That way he could prove how a non-medium could come up with the same, or at least similar, answers.

Perhaps may have undermined himself, but he did do the reading with the girl who had a mini.


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## quimcunx (May 11, 2010)

Just watched this.  What a nasty little fucker.  After the Derren's 'reading' with the girl from Hollyoaks he asks what about the affair then says never mind.  Nothing more than a nasty fit of pique.


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## 8ball (May 11, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> Just watched this.  What a nasty little fucker.  After the Derren's 'reading' with the girl from Hollyoaks he asks what about the affair then says never mind.  Nothing more than a nasty fit of pique.



Just watched this followed by the 'The Biggest Douche In The Universe' episode of South Park.  I think it's disgraceful that Derren Brown has descended to doing live-action remakes of cartoons and passing them off as his own work.


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## Santino (May 11, 2010)

urb said:


> I'm not making a case for mediumship. I'm just pointing out that being sceptical means being open to possibilities, and not cynical and superior like some sceptics become.



Scepticism isn't about being open to anything.

It's about refusing to accept anything without decent evidence.


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## Thora (May 11, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> Just watched this.  What a nasty little fucker.  After the Derren's 'reading' with the girl from Hollyoaks he asks what about the affair then says never mind.  Nothing more than a nasty fit of pique.



I liked that the actress came to the conclusion that "Derren must be psychic", despite him telling her he wasn't, rather than "Joe Power is a fake"


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## quimcunx (May 11, 2010)

Thora said:


> I liked that the actress came to the conclusion that "Derren must be psychic", despite him telling her he wasn't, rather than "Joe Power is a fake"



A friend's sister insists that Derren is psychic but pretends he isn't. 

I'm not entirely sure what his motivation for doing that is..... 


She obviously knew nothing of an affair but thought he must know something she didn't. vile thing to do.


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## 8ball (May 11, 2010)

Thora said:


> I liked that the actress came to the conclusion that "Derren must be psychic", despite him telling her he wasn't, rather than "Joe Power is a fake"



It's an easier interpretation to make when someone is blatantly psychic in front of your face.  Path of least resistance...


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## 8ball (May 11, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> A friend's sister insists that Derren is psychic but pretends he isn't.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what his motivation for doing that is.....



Well, he never has to worry about being debunked.


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## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

This television programme proved nothing. 

Derren Brown and Joe Power had every opportunity to get prior information for their readings (hot-reading).

The sitters should have been randomly selected. One was chosen by Joe Power and the rest were set up by Derren Brown. 

If you're going to do a programme about psychics, then why not make it a reasonable test?  I seemed to me that Joe Power was the only psychic willing to participate. Perhaps the only psychic who's ego overtook his common sense to get involved in a programme with someone like Derren Brown.

My stance on mediumship changes almost weekly...  because I keep coming across contradicting evidence.


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## belboid (May 12, 2010)

There is no evidence it is anything but fakery.  None.


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## souljacker (May 12, 2010)

urb said:


> There you go.  That's how he did it.
> 
> Hot-reading from reading Heat Magazine.


 

Why the rolleyes?


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## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

belboid said:


> There is no evidence it is anything but fakery.  None.



There's mountains of anecdotal evidence.  Most of it can be explained as cold-reading and sometimes hot-reading, but I have NEVER seen a sceptic explain away everything.

Derren Brown's book, _Trick of the Mind_, promised to explain how psychics get information. After reading it, I was disappointed. Derren, who is probably the best qualified person to comment on tricks and psychological fakery, failed to explain the questions I had with regard to mediumship.



souljacker said:


> Why the rolleyes?


Because I didn't think of that possibility. It was hot-reading, which I think Derren does a lot of.


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## belboid (May 12, 2010)

urb said:


> There's mountains of anecdotal evidence.  Most of it can be explained as cold-reading and sometimes hot-reading, but I have NEVER seen a sceptic explain away everything.



i thought you watched the programme?  it's all explained.  Always


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## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

I watched Derren Brown debunking one fake psychic.  And not a very good one at that.


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## belboid (May 12, 2010)

But you saw him totally debunk him, which contradicts your previous statement.


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## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

When I was referring to "everything" I was referring to everything I have witnessed. 

I agree that Derren Brown totally debunked Joe Power though.


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## belboid (May 12, 2010)

Cos there were studied skeptics there too, watchng everything you saw as well?  Do me a favour.  You dont actually believe the crap you're coming out with do you?  'Medium' is a gross exageration of all those peoples talents


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## Gingerman (May 12, 2010)

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html


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## ebay sex moomin (May 12, 2010)

.


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## danny la rouge (May 12, 2010)

It's funny that all the Psychics that are debunked are bad ones.  They're all good ones until they're debunked, then they become "obvious con artists".


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## dylans (May 12, 2010)

People that believe in this crap are either idiots or desperately sad. Intellectually its just bollocks. Up there with UFOs and Atlantis. People who even entertain the possibility on an intellectual level  are stupid. What is more likely a) that they talk to dead people, or b) that they are conjurers doing tricks. What is more likely? 

 Emotionally it's really sad and preying on loss and tragedy. Mediums who charge money are parasites and con men. If you could talk to the dead you would be king. You would have superpowers. Find buried gold and treasure. But no they have to charge £70.00 to get a message.in some grubby hall.  Noone talks to the dead. Don't be sily.


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## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

I don't know what I believe, because there are holes in both sides of the argument and I am aware of a lot of stuff that supports both points of view. So to avoid this turning into another pointless debate, I'll just sit on the fence.


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## Santino (May 12, 2010)

urb said:


> I don't know what I believe, because there are holes in both sides of the argument. So to avoid this turning into another pointless debate, I'll just sit on the fence.



What holes are there in the argument that the dead do not continue to live on in another realm, occasionally making themselves known in an unreliable and generally unpredictable manner?


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## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

Santino said:


> What holes are there in the argument that the dead do not continue to live on in another realm, occasionally making themselves known in an unreliable and generally unpredictable manner?


I don't have the time to engage in a discussion about it. As I said, I am sitting on the fence, because I have encountered one or two people who appear to be very accurate mediums.


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## Santino (May 12, 2010)

urb said:


> I don't have the time to engage in a discussion about it. As I said, I am sitting on the fence, because I have encountered one or two very accurate mediums.



So you've got nothing.

Do you think magicians are evidence that people can make rabbits appear from nowhere?


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

I'm not biting.


----------



## N_igma (May 12, 2010)

urb said:


> I'm not biting.



He has a fair point. Answer the question.


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2010)

urb said:


> I have encountered one or two people who appear to be very accurate mediums.



they all appear to be 'very accurate' - untill you pay proper attention


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

I've seen a lot of mediums work. Both privately and on stage.  I am also fully aware of cold-reading methods and have read Derren Browns books too.  In addition, I have read pretty much all of the Bad Psychics website and have studied Jon Donnis's explanations of readings that have been transcribed and analysed.

And there are too many instances of what the sceptics describe as pure luck. Accurate information that was just a "lucky guess" in the eyes of these armchair psychologists, crops up too often for it to be chance.


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2010)

bullshit.  You're just very gulible


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

I'm just sitting on the fence, where the bulls can't shit.


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2010)

short fence.  big bulls.


----------



## 8ball (May 12, 2010)

We need a live Urbans test of a 'real' psychic


----------



## TheDave (May 12, 2010)

Just watched it on 4od. That Joe Power guy is the biggest prick I have ever seen, throwing hissy fits when he gets shown up as a fake. I think that going to the bathroom business is about getting a chance to look for photos, mementos around the house in order to get some starting points for his cold reading. 

I must say though, the women of Liverpool really need to ease up on the make up.


----------



## kabbes (May 12, 2010)

Why the fuck would the dead turn up just to say banal things that the living already know, like it's some kind of elementary trivia test?

OooOOOooooh... you used to drive a Mini......OOoooooOOOOo.... your mum had 3 sisters... OOOOOoOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 12, 2010)

sarahluv said:


> it's so he can have a nosey round people's houses





TheDave said:


> I think that going to the bathroom business is about getting a chance to look for photos, mementos around the house in order to get some starting points for his cold reading.


I realised earlier, I'm pretty sure Derren went to the toilet when he first visited Power's house  

It was when Power started doing all the "I'll have to try and be psychic like Mr. Brown, I don't know how strong Mr. Brown like his tea". I really dislike that man.


----------



## fogbat (May 12, 2010)

I know I've already mentioned him, but I was astounded at Power's Shirley Ghostman-like behaviour at times. 

Telling people that don't agree with him that they're wrong, rather than him, and especially that nasty little "affair" dig.


----------



## kabbes (May 12, 2010)

fogbat said:


> especially that nasty little "affair" dig.


My sympathy for that woman faded, mind, when she insisted afterwards that Derren must also have psychic powers, despite him categorically telling her that he didn't have psychic powers.

"Only the true messiah would deny his divinity!"


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2010)

fogbat said:


> I know I've already mentioned him, but I was astounded at Power's Shirley Ghostman-like behaviour at times.
> 
> Telling people that don't agree with him that they're wrong, rather than him, and especially that nasty little "affair" dig.



was rather disappointing didn't make rather more out of that.  Should have jsut decked the twat


----------



## fogbat (May 12, 2010)

kabbes said:


> My sympathy for that woman faded, mind, when she insisted afterwards that Derren must also have psychic powers, despite him categorically telling her that he didn't have psychic powers.
> 
> "Only the true messiah would deny his divinity!"



I thought that a bit, but at least she was just dim, rather than actively unpleasant.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 12, 2010)

kabbes said:


> [...] she insisted afterwards that Derren must also have psychic powers, despite him categorically telling her that he didn't have psychic powers.
> 
> "Only the true messiah would deny his divinity!"


This is why it's so easy for psychics to make people believe them: if you can say "I'm not really psychic", and people still think you are, imagine how much you'll want to believe if you've had the kind of pain and loss that people in that audience wanted comfort for.

But the "affair" crack was just nasty, especially the way he tried to wriggle out of it.


----------



## Gingerman (May 12, 2010)

http://www.joepower.co.uk/joe-power-news.html ,poor aul Joe Power(Failure)


----------



## kabbes (May 12, 2010)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.joepower.co.uk/joe-power-news.html ,poor aul Joe Power(Failure)



He's either a moron or unbelievably arrogant.  What did he *think* was going to happen?


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2010)

magnificently dishonest response!  Love the way the solicitor says absolutely nothing in his letter.  £100 for doing nowt, Joe must be jealous


----------



## mk12 (May 12, 2010)

My only criticism of the show was the fact Derren didn't look at psychics who receive visitors at _their_ choice of venue. It makes it harder to do research, and they can't walk around the house looking at pictures (as I assume that guy did when he visited the toilet).


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

Gordon Smith did a Radio 4 interview with Derren Brown a while back... anyone know how to find it in an archive?


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/realmedia/beyond_belief/beyond_20070827.ram


----------



## N_igma (May 12, 2010)

The best way would be to ship them onto a plane, blindfolded and taken to a headhunter tribe in Papau New Guinea and try it there. Would rule out the "I'm getting a P P Peter??? Paul??? P P P P John?" trick anyhow.


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2010)

belboid said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/realmedia/beyond_belief/beyond_20070827.ram



gawd, Smith is just rubbish in that.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

Do you think these psychics are in it for the money?

If so, then there must be psychics who know they're not real ... and there must be psychics who have a deluded belief in themselves?


----------



## 8ball (May 12, 2010)

In the current economic climate it is merely prudence to invest in a book about coldreading.


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2010)

urb said:


> Do you think these psychics are in it for the money?
> 
> If so, then there must be psychics who know they're not real ... and there must be psychics who have a deluded belief in themselves?



eh?  By what logic does that follow?  There might possibly be some who have such a deluded belief, but the vast vast vast majority are nothing more than crooks.


----------



## 8ball (May 12, 2010)

You wonder what kind of psychological abnormality would cause a person to combine clandestine research and cold reading techniques while being honestly convinced it's actually dead people talking to them.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

belboid said:


> eh?  By what logic does that follow?  There might possibly be some who have such a deluded belief, but the vast vast vast majority are nothing more than crooks.


You are forgetting the Spiritualist movement and their several hundred churches across the UK. Are all these people crooks too?


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)

Number of Religious Adherents in the UK (2001 Census)

1. Christians = 42,079,000
2. Muslims = 1,546,626
3. Hindus = 552,421
4. Sikhs = 329,358
5. Jews = 259,927
6. Buddhists = 144,453
7. *Spiritualists = 32,404*


----------



## dylans (May 12, 2010)

urb said:


> You are forgetting the Spiritualist movement and their several hundred churches across the UK. Are all these people crooks too?



No just poor deluded idiots and sad people desperate for some comfort


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2010)

urb said:


> You are forgetting the Spiritualist movement and their several hundred churches across the UK. Are all these people crooks too?



well, they are usually different, in that they dont tend to do such 'readings.'  But when they do, yes, they are crooks too, scum of the earth.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 12, 2010)




----------



## Jonti (May 12, 2010)

8ball said:


> You wonder what kind of psychological abnormality would cause a person to combine clandestine research and cold reading techniques while being honestly convinced it's actually dead people talking to them.


 The need to turn a buck suffices, I'm afraid.

See, it's all about establishing resonances, and every little clue helps to focus the channel


----------



## fogbat (May 12, 2010)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.joepower.co.uk/joe-power-news.html ,poor aul Joe Power(Failure)



Hahaha. You mendacious fuck


----------



## fogbat (May 12, 2010)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.joepower.co.uk/joe-power-news.html ,poor aul Joe Power(Failure)



You'd expect at least one of the spirits would have said "Woo, Joe. Woo. Hire someone who can fucking spell."


----------



## 8ball (May 13, 2010)

fogbat said:


> You'd expect at least one of the spirits would have said "Woo, Joe. Woo. Hire someone who can fucking spell."



Spirits are disembodied and have no brain, obv.

Hence they have no access to the spelling centres of the brain.

Any fule no that.


----------



## fogbat (May 13, 2010)

8ball said:


> Spirits are disembodied and have no brain, obv.
> 
> Hence they have no access to the spelling centres of the brain.
> 
> Any fule no that.



Oh, I see.

I imagine that's why they can only communicate simple messages, like "one of five", or "Jimmy, no James, er, I mean Paul", or "Mini".


----------



## kabbes (May 13, 2010)

If I were a spirit, rather than concentrating on a test of family names and motor vehicles, I reckon I'd be saying something like, "Fucking hell!  There really is some kind of life after death!  You people have to know about this shit!  Somebody get a pen RIGHT NOW!"


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2010)

I think I would just troll the police by feeding a psychic bogus information about murders and missing kids


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2010)

kabbes said:


> If I were a spirit, rather than concentrating on a test of family names and motor vehicles, I reckon I'd be saying something like, "Fucking hell!  There really is some kind of life after death!  You people have to know about this shit!  Somebody get a pen RIGHT NOW!"



you would have thought that by now one of them would have gone 'shit man, hate to tell you, but the jews were right!'


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2010)

kabbes said:


> If I were a spirit, rather than concentrating on a test of family names and motor vehicles, I reckon I'd be saying something like, "Fucking hell!  There really is some kind of life after death!  You people have to know about this shit!  Somebody get a pen RIGHT NOW!"


Naw, it's all about the minis up there.


----------



## 8ball (May 13, 2010)

fogbat said:


> I imagine that's why they can only communicate simple messages, like "one of five", or "Jimmy, no James, er, I mean Paul", or "Mini".



They mumble.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2010)

8ball said:


> They mumble.


Yes!  Yes, my Grandad used to mumble.  He had a friend called Pauline.  Well, she sold him eggs.

You're brilliant.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> You are forgetting the Spiritualist movement and their several hundred churches across the UK. Are all these people crooks too?



Some of them are, yeah. The rest are just deluded idiots.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 13, 2010)

I've read trance transcriptions with highly detailed description of the spirit world or "heaven". But if spirits came back telling us about the afterlife, then would we consider this evidence?  No, because we would only have their word, or the medium's word, for this.

I think if you were a spirit with a limited time to communicate, you would want to give fast specific evidence that would give your loved ones no doubt that you were who the medium said you were.

That is why the evidence is mostly mundane stuff, because the main purpose of spirit communication is to give comfort by proving that death is not the end.


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2010)

what stupid bullshit


----------



## N_igma (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> I've read trance transcriptions with highly detailed description of the spirit world or "heaven". But if spirits came back telling us about the afterlife, then would we consider this evidence?  No, because we would only have their word, or the medium's word, for this.
> 
> I think if you were a spirit with a limited time to communicate, you would want to give fast specific evidence that would give your loved ones no doubt that you were who the medium said you were.
> 
> That is why the evidence is mostly mundane stuff, because the main purpose of spirit communication is to give comfort by proving that death is not the end.



You came on here saying you're on the fence on this matter but basically you're as much a fruitloop as the rest of them. Sound.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 13, 2010)

I'm on the fence and understand the subject from both sides.  Sceptic and believer. 

I was giving you an insight.


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2010)

no, you really weren't


----------



## 8ball (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> I've read trance transcriptions with highly detailed description of the spirit world or "heaven".



Have they got TK Maxx?


----------



## N_igma (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> I was giving you an insight.



A load of bollocks more like. You really expect us to take that shit seriously? If you were a sceptic you would have took a shit on that argument.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 13, 2010)

Globally, atheists are in the minority. It's the 21st Century, but still the majority of people believe in an afterlife.

Atheists seem to enjoy poking fun at anyone who disagrees with them, because in their eyes, anyone who has belief or faith must be intellectually inferior???


----------



## 8ball (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> Atheists seem to enjoy poking fun at anyone who disagrees with them, because in their eyes, anyone who has belief or faith must be intellectually inferior???



Yeah; just because they're better at punctation??


----------



## N_igma (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> anyone who has belief or faith must be intellectually inferior???



Not at all but certainly deluded.


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2010)

None of which has anything to do with the drivel you talk about 'mediums'  Oh, and no, not everyone.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 13, 2010)

8ball said:


> Yeah; just because they're better at punctation??


You'll have to explain this one.


----------



## quimcunx (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> I think if you were a spirit with a limited time to communicate, you would want to give fast specific evidence that would give your loved ones no doubt that you were who the medium said you were.



yes you would.  yet they don't and the target quite often struggles to find a connection between what the psychic says and the person they think they might be talking about/ the person they want to contact. 

I would say I'm Babette from Cricklewood and I'm your mum, if you don't believe me remember that green dressing gown I wore for 30 years with a butterfly on the lapel. That would convince me the psychic was for real, probably. Not I begin with a B, Barbara maybe or something like that and you'll obviously remember how important the number 2 is for me, I'm one of 2 children, or I had 2 children or there was just me and my mum, just the 2 of us, or you were my 2nd child out of 7 children, or my birthday was in February, or the 2nd of June or maybe your dad was my 2nd husband, or I died on the 2nd or I always had 2 as one of my lottery numbers. Think think!  There must be something to do with 2!!!!!! Oh, and just ignore the bit I said about a man begining with P.  You obviously don't remember that bit. Or the bit about a car crash or a long but quite short illness, or a miscarriage.  I was just joshing with the psychic on those things. 

Yeah, anyway she says it's gonna be okay and she loves you.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 13, 2010)

Please watch this:


----------



## 8ball (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> Please watch this:


----------



## dylans (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> Please watch this:




DON'T BE SO STUPID. 

People don't talk to the dead.

Please watch this


----------



## TheDave (May 13, 2010)

Oh goody a youtube video, I'm sure my well founded scepticism will be dashed in 10 minutes or less.


----------



## N_igma (May 13, 2010)

urb said:


> Please watch this:




That's me convinced.


----------



## 8ball (May 13, 2010)

Emotional abuse for entertainment purposes only.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 13, 2010)

8ball said:


> Emotional abuse for entertainment purposes only.


*obligatory X-Factor/Britain's Got Talent reference*


----------



## TheDave (May 13, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> *obligatory X-Factor/Britain's Got Talent reference*



At least those only fuck with peoples vanity and tone-deafness, mediums and psychics are much more sinister bunch.


----------



## Clair De Lune (May 13, 2010)

Watched this earlier. I am gutted that when I die, I will be hanging about being fine, whispering numbers and pointing out that my elderly relatives get achey


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 13, 2010)

TheDave said:


> At least those only fuck with peoples vanity and tone-deafness, mediums and psychics are much more sinister bunch.


*obligatory Piers Morgan reference*


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 13, 2010)




----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 14, 2010)

urb said:


> Please watch this:




A lot of very obvious, not very well done, cold reading, with quite possibly hot reading as well.


----------



## belboid (May 14, 2010)

urb said:


> Please watch this:




what utter rubbish.  I mean, it's not as if he could ahve taken names and addresses when people booked the seats or anything, is it?  

You'd have to be desperate to believe to be taken in by that tosh.


----------



## quimcunx (May 14, 2010)

urb said:


> Please watch this:




Oooh!  nice kilt. 

I was wrong. I take it all back.  

I wouldn't believe it.  As said already, Getting details of audience members and having plants who pick up info is a well enough known trick.  

I saw Derren Brown live once.  It was very impressive.  More so than this man.  Yet he is not psychic. 

Or perhaps I'm afraid of my own powers.   When I was a teenager living in a small village in a place and time long ago, these boys cycled up from the town one day. I 'went out' with one of them for, ooh, 3 weeks.  About a week in I told him his mother's name.  He looked at his mates and they shrugged. They hadn't told me.  I told him who she used to work for, again correct and his friends faces were blank.  Then I told him of her connection to a certain place.  He knew of no connection to there.  He asked his mum that night and when I next saw him he confirmed her connection!!!!!


----------



## belboid (May 14, 2010)

yeah, but you were actually his sister, weren't you?


----------



## quimcunx (May 14, 2010)

belboid said:


> yeah, but you were actually his sister, weren't you?



 


No!  

I just 'knew' things.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 14, 2010)

I once guessed the age of my friend's mother, and the fact she was a twin. Was a complete guess though, no psychic ability or cold reading either way.

Didn't tell her that, obviously


----------



## 8ball (May 14, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> No!
> 
> I just 'knew' things.



I sometimes 'just know' things too, I just put it down to my sunconscious squirreling bits of information away, snippets of conversations in the background I'm not really listening to etc. etc.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 14, 2010)

So you think that this is all nonsense then? 
http://www.snu.org.uk/spiritualism.htm


> Spiritualism is a religion that gives an understanding of God and encourages us to act with a high sense of duty towards others. Spiritualism stimulates spiritual growth and prepares us for eternal existence in the spirit-world.
> 
> Spiritualism is a science because it is based upon proven facts that can be demonstrated and scientifically classified. Spiritualism is the science of life as it encourages the search for truth in every department of existence, in nature and in human psychology.
> 
> Spiritualism is a philosophy that attempts to understand people, their physical, intellectual, moral, and spiritual being. As Spirit is the moving force of the Universe, so Spiritualist philosophy embraces the whole realm of nature.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2010)

Spiritualism is not a science. I'd respect it's claim to be a philosophy/religion but not a fucking science


----------



## al (May 14, 2010)

urb said:


> So you think that this is all nonsense then?
> http://www.snu.org.uk/spiritualism.htm



what proven facts??

and anyway - just working with proven facts doesn't make something a science - historians work with proven facts all the time, but they're historians - not scientists...


----------



## quimcunx (May 14, 2010)

8ball said:


> I sometimes 'just know' things too, I just put it down to my sunconscious squirreling bits of information away, snippets of conversations in the background I'm not really listening to etc. etc.



There's a lot of that about.  More than we think.  

In this instance it was because a conversation with my parents revealed that my dad knew his dad through work and my mum used to work with his mum....


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 14, 2010)

The science of Spiritualism.
http://www.spiritualist.tv/news/mar08/science-spiritualism.html


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 14, 2010)

urb said:


> The science of Spiritualism.
> http://www.spiritualist.tv/news/mar08/science-spiritualism.html



Give it up, sonny


----------



## RaverDrew (May 14, 2010)

Why is it that most "skeptics" seem to be rude, ill-tempered, ego-driven, deeply condescending, and assume that most people are intellectually inferior to themselves ? Absolutely no need for it most of the time.


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Why is it that most "skeptics" seem to be rude, ill-tempered, ego-driven, deeply condescending, and assume that most people are intellectually inferior to themselves ? Absolutely no need for it most of the time.



I was being patronising _actually_


----------



## Teaboy (May 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Why is it that most "skeptics" seem to be rude, ill-tempered, ego-driven, deeply condescending, and assume that most people are intellectually inferior to themselves ? Absolutely no need for it most of the time.



Why is it _most_ people who object to "skeptics" seem to generalise


----------



## RaverDrew (May 14, 2010)

5t3IIa said:


> I was being patronising _actually_



Damn, knew I'd forgotten something


----------



## Santino (May 14, 2010)

5t3IIa said:


> I was being patronising _actually_



Patronising is when you talk down to someone.


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Damn, knew I'd forgotten something





"You can prove anything with facts!"


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Why is it that most "skeptics" seem to be rude, ill-tempered, ego-driven, deeply condescending, and assume that most people are intellectually inferior to themselves ? Absolutely no need for it most of the time.


 I have noticed this too.

The way I see things is that one of the following possibilities are true:

a) Spiritualism and spirit communication is real and we are all being watched by our dead ancestors and friends.
_Being wrong about this may cause a little embarrassment when I'm dead. _

b) Psychics and mediums are emotionally abusing the bereaved. 
_If this is true, then it outweighs the risk of being embarrassed about being wrong about Spiritualism._

If you get my meaning.


----------



## Santino (May 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Why is it that most "skeptics" seem to be rude, ill-tempered, ego-driven, deeply condescending, and assume that most people are intellectually inferior to themselves ? Absolutely no need for it most of the time.



Fuck off, that's why.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2010)

It is basically ancestor worship- along with animism one of the oldest types of belief. Join a proper religion, one with highly developed hatreds and massive bodycounts.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 14, 2010)

urb said:


> The science of Spiritualism.
> http://www.spiritualist.tv/news/mar08/science-spiritualism.html



Oh look, it's all about quantums


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 14, 2010)

urb said:


> So you think that this is all nonsense then?
> http://www.snu.org.uk/spiritualism.htm



Yep


----------



## Obnoxiousness (May 14, 2010)




----------



## cyberfairy (May 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Why is it that most "skeptics" seem to be rude, ill-tempered, ego-driven, deeply condescending, and assume that most people are intellectually inferior to themselves ? Absolutely no need for it most of the time.



A pleasing post I do not agree with everything my friends do but am not rude, loud and sneery-that's because I speak to them face to face and also do not believe everyone should and must think the same way


----------



## dylans (May 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Why is it that most "skeptics" seem to be rude, ill-tempered, ego-driven, deeply condescending, and assume that most people are intellectually inferior to themselves ? Absolutely no need for it most of the time.



It's cus we have a low tolerance for utter stupidity.


----------



## Idaho (May 18, 2010)

Surprised no-one revived this one.

Anyone see it last night? £2,000 per person, per course... beggars belief really.


----------



## kabbes (May 18, 2010)

Bizarre one last night, I thought.  Normally there is some attempt by the shyster at some kind of trick, which Derren can then debunk.  But these guys didn't even try that.  They just made elaborate claims that were incredibly easily seen through.  It's very odd that anybody would buy into it at all.


----------



## Idaho (May 18, 2010)

It was the Emperor's new clothes. Everyone believed because they really, really wanted to believe.


----------



## _angel_ (May 18, 2010)

The way that guy was basically telling the lad in the wheelchair he could walk if he wanted to and was just lazy

And what was he on about "you give a newborn baby an injection to stop it crying" errrrrrrrr no?


----------



## FoxyRed (May 18, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> The way that guy was basically telling the lad in the wheelchair he could walk if he wanted to and was just lazy
> 
> And what was he on about "you give a newborn baby an injection to stop it crying" errrrrrrrr no?



I know...truly disgusting. How do they sleep at night?


----------



## Santino (May 18, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> I know...truly disgusting. How do they sleep at night?



On a bed of money.


----------



## kabbes (May 18, 2010)

The ending was out of Se7en.

"What's in the box?  What's in the boooooooxxxxx?"


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 18, 2010)

kabbes said:


> The ending was out of Se7en.
> 
> "What's in the box?  What's in the boooooooxxxxx?"


Except the guy didn't give a flying fuck 

It really was weird the way they barely made any effort to prove anything, it seemed like Derren almost didn't know what to do with it. I'm not sure if it's more worrying that people will try this or that people will go along with it.

Probably the former.


----------



## kabbes (May 18, 2010)

It's the Big Lie technique.  If you just keep saying something then people will come to believe it, even when evidence to the contrary is right in front of their noses.


----------



## quimcunx (May 18, 2010)

I have a large penis.


----------



## kabbes (May 18, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> I have a large penis.


Quimbly has a large penis.


----------



## fogbat (May 18, 2010)

I believe it.


----------



## Santino (May 18, 2010)

kabbes said:


> The ending was out of Se7en.
> 
> "What's in the box?  What's in the boooooooxxxxx?"



Did we know what was in the box? I missed a few minutes of it.


----------



## kabbes (May 18, 2010)

I dunno.  I fell asleep right before the end.


----------



## Santino (May 18, 2010)

kabbes said:


> I dunno.  I fell asleep right before the end.


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## kabbes (May 18, 2010)

It was classic misdirection.


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## Santino (May 18, 2010)

I might have dozed off too.


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## quimcunx (May 18, 2010)

kabbes said:


> I dunno.  I fell asleep right before the end.



If you'd watched those last few minutes you would have been convinced of the veracity of their claims, I'm sure.  


The main problem seems to be that Derren isn't a scientist so there was no point in trying to explain to him the important scientific methods employed in the course. It was something to do with hands and balls and heat and friction from what I could gather.


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## kabbes (May 18, 2010)

Heh.  Balls.


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## Blackout (May 18, 2010)

It was very interesting last night. I do feel that he is rather soft on them. I would be more "in your face"


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## Lord Camomile (May 18, 2010)

I dunno, "in your face" tends to cause people to slam the metaphorical door shut and put up the barricades pretty quick. I think he's trying to coax them into a discussion and then get them to reveal the holes in their own argument.

A little difficult when the subject doesn't apparently care about the holes though


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## Idaho (May 19, 2010)

Blackout said:


> It was very interesting last night. I do feel that he is rather soft on them. I would be more "in your face"



Yeah but a barracking, argumentative style would be counterproductive and tedious to watch.


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## danny la rouge (May 19, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> If you'd watched those last few minutes you would have been convinced of the veracity of their claims, I'm sure.
> 
> 
> The main problem seems to be that Derren isn't a scientist so there was no point in trying to explain to him the important scientific methods employed in the course. It was something to do with hands and balls and heat and friction from what I could gather.


If you close your eyes, the energy for your brain comes from your urogenital system.  Obviously.  And this means you can look through boxes, if you quickly take your mask off, and open the box's lid.  However, he couldn't look through Derren's box, because Derren isn't a scientist, hadnt understood much, and was making an anti-commercial.  But that's fine.  In fact, an anti-commercial is better.


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## 8ball (May 19, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> If you close your eyes, the energy for your brain comes from your urogenital system.  Obviously.  And this means you can look through boxes, if you quickly take your mask off, and open the box's lid.  However, he couldn't look through Derren's box, because Derren isn't a scientist, hadnt understood much, and was making an anti-commercial.  But that's fine.  In fact, an anti-commercial is better.



The most bizarre thing, I think, is that you have completely covered the salient points of the scammers' case without misrepresenting anything at all.

It wasn't as lolsome as the Joe Power episode and just left me feeling sad that these idiots can fleece desperate (though in some cases not so much  desperate as just gullible) people with this shite.

Derren didn't even have the opportunity to use his skills to debunk anything - there was really nothing to de-bunk.  Just transparent bunk.  They didn't even have a 'trick' to convince anyone they could do this.  

That's the most amazing thing, that someone can claim to be able to see through solid objects, and claim to be able to teach you how to see through solid objects, but at no point do they demonstrate this, nor does anyone ask them to, after parting with several grand for the privelege.  Not even at the end of the course.  Unbelievable.

edit:  Apart from Derren of course, who asked the founder of the method (who also claims to be able to levitate) to take a peek through a cardboard box he had brought along.  Which didn't go down too well.


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## _angel_ (May 19, 2010)

8ball said:


> The most bizarre thing, I think, is that you have completely covered the salient points of the scammers' case without misrepresenting anything at all.
> 
> It wasn't as lolsome as the Joe Power episode and just left me feeling sad that these idiots can fleece desperate (though in some cases not so much  desperate as just gullible) people with this shite.
> 
> ...



I have a feeling Derren was expecting them to come up with a 'trick' for him to debunk - he said so himself that he would have at least done something like that, to make it look as if he was doing something amazing! But they didn't even do that, so I think he may have been as surprised as the rest of us were.
Truly was a case of the Emporer's New Clothes.


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## 8ball (May 19, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> I have a feeling Derren was expecting them to come up with a 'trick' for him to debunk - he said so himself that he would have at least done something like that, to make it look as if he was doing something amazing! But they didn't even do that, so I think he may have been as surprised as the rest of us were.
> Truly was a case of the Emporer's New Clothes.



Except without the bit where the Emperor shows off his new clothes . . .


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## kabbes (May 19, 2010)

Makes me think that Joe Powers shouldn't have bothered with all that "Your mother was one of five" stuff.  He should have just said, "Yep, I'm speaking to spirits and they say that the lottery numbers will be... "  And then when those weren't the lottery numbers, he should just have claimed that they are really.


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## Santino (May 31, 2010)

Watching the ghost hunting programme.

I wish they wouldn't use moody camerawork and spooky music. They should use the Steptoe and Son theme tune instead.


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## kabbes (May 31, 2010)

This is just dull.  Poor show, Derren.


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## kabbes (May 31, 2010)

Really, really dull.


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## ebay sex moomin (May 31, 2010)

kabbes said:


> This is just dull.  Poor show, Derren.


I hate to say it, but yeah. It's about as investigative as Scooby Doo.

How does static say "shouldn't have bothered with this berk"?


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## quimcunx (May 31, 2010)

I forgot about this.  What is it? Ghosts?


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## Louloubelle (May 31, 2010)

I love Derren Brown but this show is deadly dull.

I could have directed him to some much more interesting and dramatic people to investigate.  There's no shortage of new age frauds out there whose exposure and humiliation would be massively entertaining, as well as a public service.  Why did he have to pick someone boring?


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## 8ball (May 31, 2010)

I'm not sure you can tell how interesting it will be beforehand, they all make ridiculous claims.

That said, I'd have been happy if he just spent the series winding up several more Joe Powers.


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## ebay sex moomin (May 31, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> I forgot about this.  What is it? Ghosts?


Yeah. Or to be more precise, static interference and photos of mist.


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## ebay sex moomin (May 31, 2010)

Louloubelle said:


> I love Derren Brown but this show is deadly dull.
> 
> I could have directed him to some much more interesting and dramatic people to investigate.  There's no shortage of new age frauds out there whose exposure and humiliation would be massively entertaining, as well as a public service.  Why did he have to pick someone boring?


Totally agree with all of the above.


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## _angel_ (May 31, 2010)

Didn't the guy in this die?


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## quimcunx (May 31, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> Didn't the guy in this die?



Were we watching his ghost?  


I don't believe in ghosts but they are compelling.  And I can still be spooked. 



Friends claim that their new house is haunted.  It's been going on since they moved in 3 years ago.  A few days ago one got chatting to a neighbour who was telling them about the previous owner.  She said the old woman who had lived there was a bit mad.  Apparently she used to claim the house was haunted... 

da da daaaaaa!


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## punchdrunkme (May 31, 2010)

Gingerman said:


>





Great Clip !!


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## Louloubelle (May 31, 2010)

8ball said:


> I'm not sure you can tell how interesting it will be beforehand, they all make ridiculous claims.
> 
> .




Some are definitely more interesting than others. 

The problems is that most of the best ones, the ones who would be the most outrageous and entertainingly evil ones, are dangerous criminals and predators. 

I get the feeling that Derren might be up for the challenge but I doubt that his manager / agent etc. want to take the risk of Derren getting into any problems.


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## FoxyRed (Jun 1, 2010)

Im sick of watching this TV series....
He only goes  for people that are obviously bullshitting.... none of these people are credible so of course he can make a mockery of it.
Not impressed


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## 8ball (Jun 1, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> Im sick of watching this TV series....
> He only goes  for people that are obviously bullshitting.... none of these people are credible so of course he can make a mockery of it.
> Not impressed



Perhaps you could find one that isn't obviously bullshitting and contact Derren's people.


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## kabbes (Jun 1, 2010)

Any clever con-artist wouldn't let Derren within a mile of them.  They're not stupid.


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## 8ball (Jun 1, 2010)

Clever people in 'non-stupid' shocker!


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## kabbes (Jun 1, 2010)

Yes, my language could have been more carefully chosen.  I'll give you that one, Mr. Ball.


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## Santino (Jun 1, 2010)

I know plenty of clever people who are stupid.


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## 8ball (Jun 1, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Yes, my language could have been more carefully chosen.  I'll give you that one, Mr. Ball.





The guy last night wasn't a bullshitter - he genuinely believed it.

whereas:
Joe Power - stupid conman.
The Soviet Blindsighters - conmen that have done inadequate research.

Not sure how many of these people are actually dangerous in the 'dangerous violent criminal' sense, Louloubelle.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> Im sick of watching this TV series....
> He only goes  for people that are obviously bullshitting.... none of these people are credible so of course he can make a mockery of it.
> Not impressed



Who would you consider a "credible" person he should investigate?


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## Louloubelle (Jun 1, 2010)

8ball said:


> The guy last night wasn't a bullshitter - he genuinely believed it.
> 
> whereas:
> Joe Power - stupid conman.
> ...



To my knowledge none of them are

Other people are though.  Either in a violent criminal way or a sexual predator way.

I wonder whether it's worth contacting Derren's manager?

I've spoken to him before and he's absolutely lovely and he is actually a bit knowledgeable about new ages frauds / cults etc.  

I think ideally you would need DB and a trained martial artist and some stab proof vests if you were going for the really nasty ones*.  And lawyers. lots of lawyers.


* actually the worst ones are so bad that they need to be left to people other than DB to deal with.


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## 8ball (Jun 1, 2010)

Are you talking about Geller?


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 1, 2010)

Yeah, last night was pretty boring. 

He offers these deluded people way too much air time to 'prove' their claims. The guy last night was just convinced of his superpowers in his own head. There was nothing Derren could to to 'out him' - he's convinced of his supernatural powers and nobody will convince him otherwise. As far as he was concerned - background static noise is a 'voice' and that is that.

Basically he was just a nutter that would not accept reasonable doubt however logical. I could meet someone like that down the pub. Big deal. I wouldn't want to go to the effort of making a TV show out of it just to tell them at the end that it can be easily explained away.


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## N_igma (Jun 1, 2010)

I loved the part when Darren asked the ghosts to be silent and then they had an orgasm on the static recorder.


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## Gingerman (Aug 7, 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-10884534


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## silverfish (Aug 7, 2010)

FoxyRed said:


> Sorry, but it was obvious from the get go that the guy was a fake...
> If Derren Brown had gone and saw Sally Morgan than I might have taken more notice.. *someone who is a reputable psychic*...
> This guy was just some idiot trying to make some money out of it....
> Was so funny at the end when the woman he had a good reading from ...his sister lived next door... hahaha



OMG


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## silverfish (Aug 7, 2010)

Read Derren Browns book, some interesting stuff on "cold reading"


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