# Driving Standards



## hash tag (Mar 11, 2014)

Is it me or are driving standards getting worse, by the minute?
Sunday, with my other half driving, there was some truly dreadful stuff going on.
Going to work this morning there was an idiot in a merc who turned right out of Trinity Road into Battersea Rise. At this junction there are FOUR lanes all exiciting Battersea Rise!

Coming home, some dumbo ignored/missed the island and slip road to turn left from Armoury Way into Smugglers Way and went straight through a straight ahead only sign to then turn left into Smugglers Way.

Both the above manouvres were illeagal and dangereous. They are out to get me, what is the matter with them?


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## Dr_Herbz (Mar 11, 2014)

hash tag said:


> Is it me or are driving standards getting worse, by the minute?
> Sunday, with my other half driving, there was some truly dreadful stuff going on.



Maybe ask your other half to get a few refresher lessons?


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## DaRealSpoon (Mar 11, 2014)

I had an old lady drive head long into me on saturday whilst I was stationary... Blamed it on new shoes


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## Teaboy (Mar 11, 2014)

hash tag said:


> Is it me or are driving standards getting worse, by the minute?
> Sunday, with my other half driving, there was some truly dreadful stuff going on.
> Going to work this morning there was an idiot in a merc who turned right out of Trinity Road into Battersea Rise. At this junction there are FOUR lanes all exiciting Battersea Rise!
> 
> ...



I have one word for you.  London.


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## hash tag (Mar 11, 2014)

I know London driving is bad, but Sunday we were driving around deepest darkest Kent. My other arf who is a very careful and considerate driver never swears, that is until getting behind the steering wheel!


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## dervish (Mar 11, 2014)

I strongly believe that every 10 years everyone with a license should be forced to drive for an hour with a driving instructor to renew their license, if after the hour the driving instructor doesn't think the driver is safe they can advise DVLA to request a full test before the license is renewed. 

Anyone with over 6 points should need to do this every 5 years.


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## hash tag (Mar 11, 2014)

Harsh, but there is some sense in that.
What about the full driving test being reviewed after 6 months. It is said we don't learn until after we pass our test, and this would check what bad habits we are slipping into.
Though I really believe that the standard of driving is worse now than I ever previously remember.


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## Part 2 (Mar 11, 2014)

On the way to work I've noticed a few junctions where cars go through as the lights change in full knowledge that they'll then be blocking the road. It's a fairly new development, last 6 months or so.


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## weltweit (Mar 11, 2014)

Overtaking someone on a dual carriageway last week, at the very last moment they pulled out directly in front of me. There was no way they had checked their mirrors. A moment later we would have collided. I was bemused, how long they will survive driving like that is anyone's guess.


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## sim667 (Mar 11, 2014)

I reckon driving standards are getting shitter by the minute....... I think its a mix of cars getting easier to drive, thus drivers are getting lazier, and more people on foreign licenses thus driving to the standards of abroad.....


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 11, 2014)

Driving standards are getting worse, reflecting general standards; people stopping in a doorway to hold a conversation, check their phone etc. and so on. It's me-me-me all the way these days.

Either that or I'm getting old


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## DownwardDog (Mar 11, 2014)

dervish said:


> I strongly believe that every 10 years everyone with a license should be forced to drive for an hour with a driving instructor to renew their license, if after the hour the driving instructor doesn't think the driver is safe they can advise DVLA to request a full test before the license is renewed.
> 
> Anyone with over 6 points should need to do this every 5 years.



This wouldn't do anything as the issue is not whether people can drive safely it's that for most of the time they don't give a shit. They'd just concentrate more and generally drive safely on their decadal renewal test then go back to driving normally once they'd passed.


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## dervish (Mar 12, 2014)

Drivers that don't give a shit are exactly the sort of arrogant dickheads that will be most likely to be caught out by this sort of scheme. I think that the driving instructor will have the experience to tell if they are actually driving safely or not.


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## SikhWarrioR (Mar 12, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Overtaking someone on a dual carriageway last week, at the very last moment they pulled out directly in front of me. There was no way they had checked their mirrors. A moment later we would have collided. I was bemused, how long they will survive driving like that is anyone's guess.


The trouble with that sort of driver is that unfortunately they will come off better than the person they hit especially if its a motorcyclist, pedestrian or bicyclist


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## Fuchs66 (Mar 12, 2014)

sim667 said:


> I reckon driving standards are getting shitter by the minute....... I think its a mix of cars getting easier to drive, thus drivers are getting lazier, and more people on foreign licenses thus driving to the standards of abroad.....


Yeah all those Johnny Foreigners coming over to the UK causing accidents that should have been caused by British fuckwit drivers!

Bit of a sweeping statement there sim667, I've seen poor driving in most countries but a lot of countries I've been to, especially on mainland Europe tend to have a higher general standard of driving when compared with the UK (Holland being an exception).


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## sim667 (Mar 12, 2014)

Fuchs66 said:


> Yeah all those Johnny Foreigners coming over to the UK causing accidents that should have been caused by British fuckwit drivers!
> 
> Bit of a sweeping statement there sim667, I've seen poor driving in most countries but a lot of countries I've been to, especially on mainland Europe tend to have a higher general standard of driving when compared with the UK (Holland being an exception).


 
I think you're putting words in my mouth a little there, and I knew someone would try and do that, as is Urbans calling.The driving test is much harder here than many other places in the the world, as is the requirement to keep vehicles in a good working condition. As one of the most multicultural countries in the world, with both vehicles and drivers from all over the world crammed onto some of the busiest roads around, and with a vast majority of foreign vehicles seated on the other side, of course it goes without saying that there will be accidents. At no point am I suggesting that all accidents are the fault of foreign drivers, but at the same time, with an influx of vehicles from abroad its simply impossible to enforce driving and vehicle standards on incoming drivers and vehicles.

I for one would rather live abroad than live in a Britain that didn't welcome immigrants at all, but then Im not naive enough to ignore the fact that without an element of standardisation across all driving and vehicles that the accident rate will incrase.

For the last 6 years I've driven an 80 mile round commute daily, the increase in lorries in that time, is hugely noticeable, and the increase in foreign lorries is very noticeable too. Having had my last car written off by a Czech lorry driver who accepted fault at the side of the road, I've obviously been more wary of left hand drive HGV's, and when you're specifically keeping an eye on their movements, you also start noticing that many of them lack the extra wing mirrors left hand drive HGV's are required to have in the UK, and how many of them have mismatched number plates between cab and trailer. I can guarantee that at least twice a month I see a car trashed by a left hand drive lorry thats pulled across to the next lane right and hasn't seen a car in their blind spot, of course many drivers are naive to that position being a blind spot to a left hand drive HGV where as it wouldn't be to a right hand drive HGV.

As for the poorer quality of driving abroad, I've spent masses of time in spain and france, and my spanish freinds and french relatives would admit that standards of driving there are poorer than the UK. Having visited a number of places across eastern europe, i would feel safe saying that certainly poland the driving is awful, but the other countries its certainly not as a. busy, b. controlled on the road as the UK.

Whilst not solely to blame, considering the changing ethic of british society to a "me me me" opinion which is clearly obvious by current issues surrounding predominantly british drivers and cyclists, and the ever obvious BMW drivers and Audi drivers as favoured by the remnants of what was the middle management culture, I do feel that it is rather naive to not accept that the changing cultural landscape in the UK plays no part in practicalities like the quality of driving etc is pretty naive, and to take the default view that anyone who dares suggest that must be making a racist comment, is frankly pathetic.

One thing that has always surprised me whilst driving round the M25 is the amount of military vehicles that seem to be caugh up in really nasty accidents. I passed one about a month ago where a military HGV had driven into the back of the one in front and totally pulverised the cab. I hate to think what the state of the driver was. But then military policy seems to dictate the plaster paperwork all over the windows obscuring the view etc.


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## gentlegreen (Mar 12, 2014)

What gets me is that this simply isn't rocket science.
I can generally spot cyclists who've never driven, but observation tells me that even the modern two part driving test doesn't count for much.

I swear I learned most of what I needed from the top deck of a bus since I grew up in a family without even a bicycle between us.
I passed car and motorcycle tests with no lessons or very much poring over of the highway code.

It's a good thing most people don't operate dangerous machinery in factories any more - but at least most of industry takes health and safety seriously these days.


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## sim667 (Mar 12, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> What gets me is that this simply isn't rocket science.
> I can generally spot cyclists who've never driven, but observation tells me that even the modern two part driving test doesn't count for much.
> 
> I swear I learned most of what I needed from the top deck of a bus since I grew up in a family without even a bicycle between us.
> ...


 
I've always said car drivers should be forced to ride a 125 motorbike for two years before being allowed to take a car driving test.


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## TopCat (Mar 12, 2014)

Drivers don't admit to being distracted or generally shite. But many obviously are.


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## gentlegreen (Mar 12, 2014)

sim667 said:


> I've always said car drivers should be forced to ride a 125 motorbike for two years before being allowed to take a car driving test.


That's exactly what I did - 7 years on motorcycles then I bought a Reliant 3 wheeler and drove it round the block to work out the gears were.

Still learning stuff after 36 years ... my basic principle is see and be seen and make your intentions clear - and acknowledge your own limitations.

Above all, consider others.


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## sim667 (Mar 12, 2014)

TopCat said:


> Drivers don't admit to being distracted or generally shite. But many obviously are.



Its the psychological thing of being in a metal box I reckon.



gentlegreen said:


> That's exactly what I did - 7 years on motorcycles then I bought a Reliant 3 wheeler and drove it round the block to work out the gears were.
> 
> Still learning stuff after 36 years ... my basic principle is see and be seen and make your intentions clear - and acknowledge your own limitations.
> 
> Above all, consider others.



Mine are: Don't be a cunt, assume nothing.

Although I'll admit I can be a bit pushy in traffic jams etc, but its so easy to get frustrated when what should be a 30 min drive takes nearer 90 mins.


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## alpha slappa (Mar 12, 2014)

You would have thought with driver training being much stricter than it once was aand having to sit theory tests etc. that driving would have got better. My father admitted the other day to knowing nothing about the highway code


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## sim667 (Mar 12, 2014)

alpha slappa said:


> You would have thought with driver training being much stricter than it once was aand having to sit theory tests etc. that driving would have got better. My father admitted the other day to knowing nothing about the highway code



Has it got stricter though?

The only changes I know of since I did the test in 2001 is hazard perception (i.e. they make sure you're not blind) & where do you put washer fluid/oil etc? The second certainly every driver should know.

Cars have got easier to drive though, almost all cars have power steering, ABS, ESP, and yadda yadda.


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## gentlegreen (Mar 12, 2014)

It's the tailgating that pisses me off on a daily basis.
I never realised quite how bad it was until I fitted a camera on the rear of my bike.
And it's every kind of driver - male, female, young, old.

We may be only doing 15MPH, but you shouldn't be that close to a car - let alone a bicycle.


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## Wilson (Mar 12, 2014)

Some woman had a road rage attack on me earlier today, she shouted, gesticulated, put her car into gear and drove straight at me, swerving towards me as she got near, dangerous as fuck it was. I don't think any kind of test is going to stop someone like that.


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## TopCat (Mar 12, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> It's the tailgating that pisses me off on a daily basis.
> I never realised quite how bad it was until I fitted a camera on the rear of my bike.
> And it's every kind of driver - male, female, young, old.
> 
> We may be only doing 15MPH, but you shouldn't be that close to a car - let alone a bicycle.


Keep the safety gap, be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.


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## sim667 (Mar 12, 2014)

Wilson said:


> Some woman had a road rage attack on me earlier today, she shouted, gesticulated, put her car into gear and drove straight at me, swerving towards me as she got near, dangerous as fuck it was. I don't think any kind of test is going to stop someone like that.



Where you in a car/on a bike? Walking?


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## Wilson (Mar 12, 2014)

Crossing the road on foot at a pelican crossing


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## hash tag (Mar 12, 2014)

I reckon as cars get bigger and safer so the driving gets more careless. Have you seen all the 4x4's that drive around town by people that can't drive, are on mobile phones texting Etc. Mostly people are not drivers, they are just people who drive big vehicles intent on getting from A to B


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## gentlegreen (Mar 12, 2014)

On the way home this evening, this driver overtook me on a blind bend into the path of a coach.
I always worry when I see people peering over their dashboard.



Hopefully my loud horn and gesticulation may have given the driver and the passenger a clue that they did something wrong.


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## hash tag (Mar 15, 2014)

I nearly hit a new ferrari when I was leaving work yesterday wg=hich had clearly jumped a red light or is it that the rules don't apply to the likes of him?


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## gentlegreen (Mar 15, 2014)

I had some old codger trying to undertake me on the way home - twice - actually he sort of succeeded - a shame the bus lane was technically available to him for another 10 minutes or so or it would have made a more entertaining video.
When I asked why he was trying to push me out of the queue for the lights and onto the other carriageway he said "you're only a bicycle". Such a shame he didn't say "road tax" too ...

I say "old codger", but he was only about 10 years older than me - it's a state of mind.


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## T & P (Mar 16, 2014)

Yesterday I witnessed a scooter rider undertake a car that was turning right onto a side street, and all whilst holding a mobile phone with his right hand and fucking texting on it while steering with his left! Had he been blindfolded it would not have looked much worse than it already was.


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## weltweit (Mar 16, 2014)

Yesterday a car approached steering erratically, the driver was holding a phone to his ear.

I don't often see people phoning whilst driving these days.


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## DownwardDog (Mar 16, 2014)

Today I saw somebody do something that was not quite to my personal taste. It's something that, were our situations reversed, I personally would not have elected to do due to superior visual acuity, spatial awareness and motor skills.

Am I doing it right?


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## gentlegreen (Mar 16, 2014)

Your daily transport experiences are unlikely to have much in common with those of the average U75er.

Why not stick a camera on your vehicles and show us ?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 16, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> I had some old codger trying to undertake me on the way home .



He tried to bury you?


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## gentlegreen (Mar 16, 2014)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> He tried to bury you?


 "That is", as they say, "why it's called undertaking".


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 16, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> "That is", as they say, "why it's called undertaking".



I've heard of 'overtaking' wrt traffic, ie passing. Undertaking vis a vis driving, is a new one on me.


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## gentlegreen (Mar 16, 2014)

OK then, "passing" on the passenger side to get in front of you.
There are drivers in the UK who will use the wrong lane to jump a queue.
Or like the arsehole cyclist who knocked me off my bike last year, trying to pass me on the inside as I was completing my overtake.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 16, 2014)

We call that 'passing on the right'. It's mentioned in the Motor Vehicle Act.


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## gentlegreen (Mar 16, 2014)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> We call that 'passing on the right'. It's mentioned in the Motor Vehicle Act.


There don't seem to be a lot of Canadian videos of dodgy driving - so may I assume everyone is well-behaved over there ?

I suspect it's a big deal with a lot of us in the UK because our road safety is actually nearly the best in the world.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 16, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> I suspect it's a big deal with a lot of us in the UK because our road safety is actually nearly the best in the world.



I'm sure it is.


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## DownwardDog (Mar 16, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> Your daily transport experiences are unlikely to have much in common with those of the average U75er.
> 
> Why not stick a camera on your vehicles and show us ?



I'm in enough trouble with the filth without giving them evidence on a plate.


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## dessiato (Mar 16, 2014)

According to statistics the UK is second only to Malta in terms of fatal accidents/population.

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/observatory/historical_evol_popul.pdf

This suggests to me that, even if the standards are falling, it is still safer to drive in the UK than almost any other place in EU.


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## KeeperofDragons (Mar 17, 2014)

Fewer people seem to indicate nowadays, I nearly got knocked off my bike when the arse decided to turn left across me, if he'd indicated we both would have known where he was going


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## T & P (Mar 18, 2014)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> We call that 'passing on the right'. It's mentioned in the Motor Vehicle Act.


Yeah but you lot tend allow 'passing on the right'. In here is not allowed by law, and generally frown upon.


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## gentlegreen (Mar 21, 2014)

Not just driving standards.
Pedestrians are pretty random these days.
I witnessed this sequence on the way home - and it's far from uncommon :-



I encounter two sets of lights on my homeward commute and people take the piss almost every time.


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## T & P (Mar 21, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> Not just driving standards.
> Pedestrians are pretty random these days.
> I witnessed this sequence on the way home - and it's far from uncommon :-
> 
> ...



Whether on an engine or pedal-powered two wheeler, I've always found pedestrians to be the most reckless road users of them all. I guess a combination of them being the least lethal group around and enjoying de-facto immunity from prosecution means their antics rarely get discussed in the media, but they are dodgy as fuck as far as I'm concerned.


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## Hocus Eye. (Mar 21, 2014)

There is a road junction near where I live that has "No right turn" signs in every direction. Today a car stopped to wait for a break in oncoming traffic to make an illegal right turn. As he waited, cars coming towards him and cars behind him all beeped their horns. I was on foot on the pavement and looked back to see what all the noise was about. The beeping continued as he continued to wait for a gap and eventually turned right with more cars beeping at him. His drivers window was open and as he pulled into the road I was on he stared at me as if to say "Why are you looking at me". I don't know if he was aware of why everyone around was hooting their horns.
Lots of drivers take that illegal right turn but there is no need, just a few yards up the road is turn off that leads in the direction they want to go in.


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## sim667 (Mar 25, 2014)

Today I saw a lady reversing back up the entry ramp to the M25 as she'd got halfway down and noticed there was a traffic jam on the motorway itself, so clearly had decided to find an alternative route.


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## Dogsauce (Mar 25, 2014)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Lots of drivers take that illegal right turn but there is no need, just a few yards up the road is turn off that leads in the direction they want to go in.



There's a 'no left turn' on my commute home which car drivers sometimes make, usually taxis. Quite common to be cycling up the inside of a traffic queue then have someone do this right in front, had a couple of near misses (it's an angled junction, so they're turning about 110 degrees). One of those places I wish I had a camera.

Further up this road is a dual carriageway on approach to a major junction with the inner ring road.  A couple of days ago I saw someone do a U-turn across the paved central bit just ahead of the lights (there's no fence).  Wasn't particularly busy and there's a gyratory up at the junction that would have allowed them to get to the same place in about a minute. Other drivers just looked on in bewilderment. Twat.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2014)




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## fishfinger (Mar 25, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


>


That van must have been very tired to have to have a lie down in the middle of the road.


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## gentlegreen (Mar 25, 2014)

How is this even possible ? :-



Spoiler: youtube video


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## sim667 (Mar 26, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> Not just driving standards.
> Pedestrians are pretty random these days.
> I witnessed this sequence on the way home - and it's far from uncommon :-
> 
> ...




I guess if you don't know the junction, its hard to tell, but in all honesty it looks like there's shit all particularly dangerous in this vid.


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## 8ball (Mar 26, 2014)

I saw somebody driving really well today. 
I gave him a big thumbs up at the traffic lights but I think he was just confused.


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## sim667 (Mar 26, 2014)

Ill admit, I think I accidentally jumped a red light today, it was one of those ones where it goes orange, and you think to yourself "Yes, no, yes, no, er..... yes....." and by then its too late and you're through it.

However yesterday I did see a pig car just drive through an already red light with no siren or lights on.

Didn't get it on my camera unfortunately


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## The Boy (Mar 26, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Ill admit, I think I accidentally jumped a red light today, it was one of those ones where it goes orange, and you think to yourself "Yes, no, yes, no, er..... yes....." and by then its too late and you're through it.



But an amber light means stop.  No decision to be made, tbf.

edit:  just reread that and it's sounds unnecessarily confrontational.  Wasn't my intention.


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## sim667 (Mar 26, 2014)

The Boy said:


> But an amber light means stop.  No decision to be made, tbf.
> 
> edit:  just reread that and it's sounds unnecessarily confrontational.  Wasn't my intention.


 
Ah it was just one of those, I was late, I'd spent 15 mins waiting whilst two chelsea tractors couldn't get past each other in the road, and both refused to reverse, I'd been cut up numerous times on the M25, and someone had blocked my turning onto a main road but basically parking in the "do not enter unless your exit is clear" box, whilst the barriers were down at a level crossing.

Wasn't in a town centre, so no pedestrians to plough through and traffic was clear, but still silly and 100% my fault. I do hope there wasn't a camera there though


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## The Boy (Mar 26, 2014)

sim667 said:


> someone had blocked my turning onto a main road but basically parking in the "do not enter unless your exit is clear" box, whilst the barriers were down at a level crossing.




That shit boils my piss 

Anyway, if we're doing confession then I'll join in.   Cycling along a main road yesterday coming up to a point in the road with a vehicular entrance to a large DIY store on the left.  I know it's there because they've had to paint "Keep Clear" to stop traffic blocking the entrance and every time I pass it I think it indicative of the falling standards of driving.

So yeah, I was following a van so my view was obscured slightly but I still should have seen the traffic ahead stopping but didn't.  And I ended up parked slap bang on the "Keep Clear" sign .  Granted, if anyone needed in or out I could have filtered through to make space, but still


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## sim667 (Mar 26, 2014)

Ugh, it happens daily in that particular junction box...... if the council put a camera there, they'd make a killing. (not that I'd want to give them ideas)


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## hash tag (Mar 29, 2014)

Hats off to the woman that parked her evoque in such a tight space
http://www.carthrottle.com/hell-range-rover-sport-get-stuck/


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## gentlegreen (Mar 29, 2014)

Blimey !
Some people just shouldn't be allowed near the controls of anything with an engine.


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## KeeperofDragons (Mar 29, 2014)

Hocus Eye. said:


> There is a road junction near where I live that has "No right turn" signs in every direction. Today a car stopped to wait for a break in oncoming traffic to make an illegal right turn. As he waited, cars coming towards him and cars behind him all beeped their horns. I was on foot on the pavement and looked back to see what all the noise was about. The beeping continued as he continued to wait for a gap and eventually turned right with more cars beeping at him. His drivers window was open and as he pulled into the road I was on he stared at me as if to say "Why are you looking at me". I don't know if he was aware of why everyone around was hooting their horns.
> Lots of drivers take that illegal right turn but there is no need, just a few yards up the road is turn off that leads in the direction they want to go in.


I cross that juction every day on the way to work & if I had a quid for every time I saw that happen I'd have retired by now :-D


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## KeeperofDragons (Mar 29, 2014)

Sorry double post


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## KeeperofDragons (Mar 29, 2014)

Stupid wireless connection!!!!!!


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## free spirit (Mar 30, 2014)

The Boy said:


> But an amber light means stop.  No decision to be made, tbf.
> 
> edit:  just reread that and it's sounds unnecessarily confrontational.  Wasn't my intention.


it doesn't exactly mean you must stop in all circumstances in the same way that red does.



> AMBER means ‘Stop’ at the stop line. You may go on only if the AMBER appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident




I nearly fucked right up a few months back, driving home late one night and due to tiredness I just carried straight on when I saw the lights turning despite being far too far back to get through safely. A car must have been approaching the lights from the other direction, as they changed as I suddenly realised they were going to drive straight into my side. I was able to pull onto the other side of the road to avoid them, but that was some proper numpty driving from me to get into the situation in the first place, it was like my brain had just failed to compute what the amber and red light meant.


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## weltweit (Mar 30, 2014)

Interests me how much my driving style has changed over the years.

Nowerdays, as I pay for my own fuel, tyres and windscreens, I leave a large gap to the car in front, take corners gently and leave myself plenty of time per journey.


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## The Boy (Mar 30, 2014)

free spirit said:


> it doesn't exactly mean you must stop in all circumstances in the same way that red does.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I was being deliberately narrow with that statement given the number of people I see on the roads who think amber means "accelerate and sneak through as the light turns red".


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## gentlegreen (Mar 30, 2014)

I found this to be quite a shocking video in terms of the casual incompetence demonstrated :-



Spoiler








Just how difficult is it to follow someone at a sensible speed and distance - especially on the approach to traffic lights. ?


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## hash tag (Apr 1, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Interests me how much my driving style has changed over the years.
> 
> Nowerdays, as I pay for my own fuel, tyres and windscreens, I leave a large gap to the car in front, take corners gently and leave myself plenty of time per journey.



Indeed. When I took my test there was no theory, we were still dong hand signals and three point turns!!!


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## hash tag (Apr 1, 2014)

This has just been brought to my notice (sorry about the adds), unbelievable!
Driver/car was "known", It was middle of the day in Sloane St, Chelsea for goodness sake!
What a waste of such an exotic motor.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lamborghi...smash-caught-on-camera-123500659.html#2IpZeBU


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## T & P (Apr 2, 2014)

Motorcycle rider's fuckwittery makes BBC News. He's lucky to be alive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26848603


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## T & P (Apr 2, 2014)

hash tag said:


> This has just been brought to my notice (sorry about the adds), unbelievable!
> Driver/car was "known", It was middle of the day in Sloane St, Chelsea for goodness sake!
> What a waste of such an exotic motor.
> 
> https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lamborghi...smash-caught-on-camera-123500659.html#2IpZeBU


 The Lambo dealership is very close by, on South Kensington. I wonder if the car was being taken on a test drive


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## Dogsauce (Apr 2, 2014)

tbf the other driver pulling out on the lambo is technically at fault (not their right of way), although they probably weren't expecting the other guy to be driving at such a prickish speed. Similar thing happened to someone at my ex's work - they pulled out thinking they had enough time to get out only to be hit by someone doing about 60 in a 30 - still their fault in the eyes of the insurance companies as it wasn't their right of way.  Expensive in this case!


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## hash tag (Apr 2, 2014)

Talking about driving standards more generally, I was heading home down Plough Rd earlier and a big police 4x4 BMW ( reg BU 12...)
simply drove through a red light whilst turning right into York Rd, no blue lights = no emergency
no emergency and you must obey the law! Whats make them think they are above it!


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## hash tag (Jan 15, 2015)

On mile and a half ish walk to shops I nearly got run over three ties. First two jumping red lights, third coming round a corner, not indicating, because he was on the phone.

This is one of the most chilling films I saw last year. The rider was clearly aware of the dangers because he had a helmet cam. Shocking!


----------



## sim667 (Jan 15, 2015)

hash tag said:


> Hats off to the woman that parked her evoque in such a tight space
> http://www.carthrottle.com/hell-range-rover-sport-get-stuck/



Nearly got run off the road by someone in one of those today..... suddenly decided to change lane, didn't signal and I don't think they even loooked in the mirror otherwise they'd have seen me.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 15, 2015)

hash tag said:


> On mile and a half ish walk to shops I nearly got run over three ties. First two jumping red lights, third coming round a corner, not indicating, because he was on the phone.
> 
> This is one of the most chilling films I saw last year. The rider was clearly aware of the dangers because he had a helmet cam. Shocking!




Its all very well being aware of the dangers and having a helmet cam..... I don't see that as a reason to be doing 100 mph anywhere, especially on a road with one lane going each way.

At that speed I can't imagine the car driver even saw them coming properly.

Sad that he died though, RIP


----------



## mauvais (Jan 15, 2015)

The car driver in question said he never saw the bike. The driver waiting behind him said that they did see it. Draw your own conclusions.


----------



## free spirit (Jan 15, 2015)

Thought I was about to witness a smash yesterday, waiting to turn right at some lights behind another car when the car just set off despite there being a car coming the other way that had to do an emergency stop to avoid hitting it.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 22, 2016)

Really. Shame. New mobile phone rules will mean 'massive increase' in Dorset drivers losing their licence, say police


----------



## hash tag (Sep 22, 2016)

How stupid do you need to be. 1. in the police. 2. on television 3. already illeagal 4. it's all over the press at the moment 

Readers' shock as police officer spotted on her mobile at the wheel


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 22, 2016)

hash tag said:


> How stupid do you need to be. 1. in the police. 2. on television 3. already illeagal 4. it's all over the press at the moment
> 
> Readers' shock as police officer spotted on her mobile at the wheel




Private road, what's the problem?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 22, 2016)

This is from the same source and far more unacceptable: Snapped: Police officers caught parking in disabled bays



> Two police officers could be facing a ticking off after their cars were snapped parked in disabled bays.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Sep 22, 2016)

I saw some comedy terrible driving a couple of days ago.

I was in the middle lane of three coming onto a roundabout, also with 3 lanes on it.  The middle lane on the island was queuing across the junction, but one kind soul left a gap so cars could cut across onto the free running lane 3.

The gentleman to my right saw the gap, and absolutely gunned it, only to stand heavily on the brakes a moment later in as he saw the white van trundling around lane 3 at full speed.  No real harm one, just a gentle tap between the two - no damage to the van, lightly caved in front right body panel on the million pound McLaren P1 driven comedically badly by the gentleman to my right.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 22, 2016)

I pulled up at a red light behind a car. The light was red, they engaged gear and drove off, the light was still red, amazing!!


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 23, 2016)

weltweit said:


> I pulled up at a red light behind a car. The light was red, they engaged gear and drove off, the light was still red, amazing!!



I've seen that a couple of times recently. One just crept slowly over the line when the lights were red and turned right, a bit like a cyclist who was ignoring the lights would do. 8am rush hour.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 23, 2016)

Don't do this, but it is easily done. When behind or alongside someone who is on a phone at a red light, make a little hint at pulling away and you can bet they will probably pull away, forgetting to actually check the lights first


----------



## hash tag (Sep 28, 2016)

Do you get extra points for filming on your phone while driving and then posting online?

VIDEO: Foul-mouthed driver slammed for using phone to berate cyclists for not using cycle lane by Richmond Park


----------



## T & P (Oct 8, 2016)

I saw a sticker on the back of a car today that had me chuckling the rest of the journey home. It was a big yellow warning sticker, clearly conveying an important safety notice. 
And it read

SLOW: ON 9 POINTS

Brilliant


----------



## Cheesypoof (Oct 8, 2016)

i been learning for what, two years? aint bothered doing my test yet. But i'm super chill when im driving, which surprised me. The great thing about driving is it reveals new sides of yourself you have never known.


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## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2016)

Do people know how dangerous using a phone while driving is? - BBC News

vortex of twattery in that short beeeb filum


----------



## weltweit (Oct 14, 2016)

not-bono-ever said:


> Do people know how dangerous using a phone while driving is? - BBC News
> 
> vortex of twattery in that short beeeb filum


The whole etiquette is wrong, I was just in a meeting of about 10 people and just one had not turned off their phone. It rang twice during the meeting with a naff and stupidly loud ring tone. The chair asked if she needed to take it? na she replied I don't know the number. Everyone else had had the decency to turn their phones off or to silent, just the one inconsiderate slob.

It is hard to resist the shrill ring tone of your phone, and that does not stop when you get into a car in the drivers seat.

The only solution if you are driving is to switch off your phone.

Simple effective and safe.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 14, 2016)

not-bono-ever said:


> Do people know how dangerous using a phone while driving is? - BBC News
> 
> vortex of twattery in that short beeeb filum



Love the graphic that says the number of drivers caught by OB is down by 1/2, when they manage to catch so many people in such a short time.


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## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2016)

Innit. I am an old fart obvs, but how much of the information we get via our mobile connectivity is actually that important & significant enough to warrant an answer? Its proportionality we seem to have lost our grip on. As much as I give drivers abuse, I am seeing more and more cyclists scootling along with no hands, on the phone, weaving through lights and zebra xings. Its wholescale twattery


----------



## weltweit (Oct 14, 2016)

I think smartphones have added a whole new level of distraction possibilities as you can get incoming text messages and emails which seem to warrant attention.

There needs to be a drive to book drivers before folks in general are going to take it seriously.


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## hash tag (Oct 15, 2016)

Something that appears to be totally overlooked is decices; phones, sat navs etc. being plonked in the middle of the windscreen. I believe it is illeagal/MOT failure to have just a tiny chip in the line of sight, yet alone some huge great device


----------



## dervish (Oct 17, 2016)

I saw someone with an ipad stuck to their screen the other day. It wasn't quite in the centre but it did block a lot of the view.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 31, 2016)

10 years.

2.5 years per life.

Not a life sentence, so eligible for early release.

How the fuck is that right?

Lorry driver jailed over four-death crash - BBC News



> A lorry driver who hit and killed a mother and her three children while using his phone behind the wheel has been jailed for 10 years.
> 
> Tomasz Kroker, 30, collided with the victims' car on the A34 in Newbury, Berkshire, on 10 August.
> 
> ...


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 31, 2016)

awful awful awful wanker.

they were doing 50mph on the way back from a camping trip.A fucking family camping trip - I cannot imagine how the family coped with this. I would be out for blood  and senseless revenge I am afraid.and it kills me to feel that way


----------



## mauvais (Oct 31, 2016)

That's not even the maximum sentence, IIRC, which is 14.


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## not-bono-ever (Oct 31, 2016)

"Horrifying dashcam footage shows moment a Polish lorry driver hit and killed a mother and three children after scrolling on his phone at 50mph as her horrified partner watched from a car behind"

Says the mail online. Just be clear, he is Polish, as that makes any difference to the crime


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 31, 2016)

mauvais said:


> That's not even the maximum sentence, IIRC, which is 14.



14 per life, so 56 years to play with here.


----------



## mauvais (Oct 31, 2016)

There was also this bellend in the news recently.



Nobody seriously injured, apparently, thanks in part to the highly switched-on bit of driving by that Astra driver IMO. No such opportunity in the case above as the victims were three cars ahead.

And because of the pure luck that noone died, a mere eight months for that guy, a Romanian tipper truck driver.


Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 14 per life, so 56 years to play with here.


Are they allowed to run consecutively? I can't remember.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 31, 2016)

It's difficult to see how this sentence could have been made longer I guess, when you consider how long someone gets for manslaugter or murder. It would have been slightly better if he had got 10 years for each person, even had the sentances been concurrent. Lets also not forget this was about more than 4 deaths, there were also a number of serious injuries. I see a police officer on the lunch time news said that once he started using his mobile phone the lorry became a lethal weapon  As soon as the engine is started, the thing becomes a lethal weapon. This is an important distinction as people should really have much more respect for the vehicle they are driving?
Sadly, I regret this will probably have no impact on the thousands that already use their mobiles while driving, after all, I only touch  my phone occasionally and even then for a few seconds at a time. Besides, he killed people, I wont do that! 

On a trivial note by comparison, I saw this recently  Police: Woman rams squad car while taking topless selfie

Just how stupid do you need to be?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 31, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Are they allowed to run consecutively? I can't remember.



They can, but rarely do, (Max Clifford got his as consecutive cos he could couldn't be done for rape for his sexual assaults that would now be rapes, so to give him a fitting sentence he got them added together).

And I would not expect 56 years, he could easily have been given 25, out in 12.5 and that would probably stand up to any appeal.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 31, 2016)

Powerful film by Werner Herzog on using the phone while driving.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 31, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 14 per life, so 56 years to play with here.


It is pretty rare (in this country) for people who commit multiple offences by one action to receive consecutive sentences. As I understand it, though, the fact that he's serving 4 sentences in parallel raises the bar somewhat when it comes to parole/early release.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 31, 2016)

If they'd been on bikes and _not wearing helmets_ he'd have got a suspended sentence, or the jury would have simply let him off.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 3, 2016)

Not really any surprise that many are multiple offenders Thousands caught driving distracted twice over four years - BBC News


----------



## hash tag (Nov 10, 2016)

Think this diy repair  is worthy of inclusion Cops see this man's car repairs - left 'amazed he thought it was OK'


----------



## hash tag (Nov 20, 2016)

Was very sorry to see this this morning Police seize £225k Lamborghini in crackdown on using phones at the wheel


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 20, 2016)

Gutted for him.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 2, 2016)

If you are gonna do it, you may as well do it properly, doh  116 MPH and streaming on facebook. Man was live streaming video on Facebook when he was involved in a horror crash


----------



## weltweit (Dec 2, 2016)

Lord Howard convicted of failing to say who was driving his car when it was caught speeding

Howard and his wife claimed they couldn't remember who was driving when they broke the 30mph speed limit.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 2, 2016)

At least he didnt lie like Hune!


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 2, 2016)

weltweit said:


> Lord Howard convicted of failing to say who was driving his car when it was caught speeding
> 
> Howard and his wife claimed they couldn't remember who was driving when they broke the 30mph speed limit.



This defence never works,  unless you are a police officer.  Though TBF, I doubt even a copper would get off with it now


----------



## existentialist (Dec 2, 2016)

Milford Haven driving instructor jailed after causing death of pensioner in "obviously dangerous" overtaking manoeuvre


----------



## existentialist (Dec 2, 2016)

rubbershoes said:


> This defence never works,  unless you are a police officer.  Though TBF, I doubt even a copper would get off with it now


I used exactly that defence, in about 2008, and it worked!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 3, 2016)

existentialist said:


> I used exactly that defence, in about 2008, and it worked!



Howard fucked up the form, rather than saying either him or Mrs Howard he put his name down and "my wife", that's what done for him. He's a lawyer


----------



## existentialist (Dec 3, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Howard fucked up the form, rather than saying either him or Mrs Howard he put his name down and "my wife", that's what done for him. He's a lawyer


Yes. I quite by chance conveyed the impression that great effort and thought had gone in to figuring out which of us had been driving. That, and a moderately sympathetic magistrate, did the trick. The prosecutor was fucking furious


----------



## hash tag (Dec 3, 2016)

Facebook driver jailed over fatal crash in Southampton - BBC News
Theres are car somewhere in there!


----------



## weltweit (Dec 3, 2016)

That is pretty horrific hash tag


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## weltweit (Dec 3, 2016)

A slightly less serious more an annoyance is people who don't dip their lights at the earliest time and dazzle you long after they should have dipped. It annoys me and I suppose it could cause an accident.


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## rubbershoes (Dec 7, 2016)

weltweit said:


> A slightly less serious more an annoyance is people who don't dip their lights at the earliest time and dazzle you long after they should have dipped. It annoys me and I suppose it could cause an accident.


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## hash tag (Dec 7, 2016)

It's all very well having a flash car, but, can you drive? Do you know what you are doing? 
(one site shows the car valued at £250,000 another at $1 million is the pound that bad?)


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 7, 2016)

hash tag said:


> It's all very well having a flash car, but, can you drive? Do you know what you are doing?
> (one site shows the car valued at £250,000 another at $1 million is the pound that bad?)





If you can buy one million dollars for two hundred and fifty thousand pounds, it's the $ that tanked...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 7, 2016)

Anyway, looks like a Mulsanne, £250k in the UK, probably closer to $1m in China once import duties have been added.


----------



## DownwardDog (Dec 7, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Anyway, looks like a Mulsanne, £250k in the UK, probably closer to $1m in China once import duties have been added.



Mulsannes have vertically stacked rear lights. That's a post-2013 update Flying Spur.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 7, 2016)

DownwardDog said:


> Mulsannes have vertically stacked rear lights. That's a post-2013 update Flying Spur.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 12, 2016)

At 10.30 this morning on a very busy road in Battersea, a Ferrari racing a Range Rover hits 6 people, knocks one flying over a bridge! Doesn't sound like anyone killed thankfully. TWAT.
The person in the high viz on the right is looking over the bridge where the pedestrian went flying, on to a car!


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## not-bono-ever (Dec 14, 2016)

another day , another cunt in a vulgar car


----------



## BigTom (Dec 14, 2016)

Shocking footage shows drivers miss binmen by inches

Some crazy videos from Biffa showing drivers using pavements to pass bin lorries. 3,000 near misses a month! 80 incidents per month reported to staffordshire police alone


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 14, 2016)

BigTom said:


> Shocking footage shows drivers miss binmen by inches
> 
> Some crazy videos from Biffa showing drivers using pavements to pass bin lorries. 3,000 near misses a month! 80 incidents per month reported to staffordshire police alone



Shocking stuff. Why on earth would anyone feel that it is acceptable to do that?


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 14, 2016)

Owning a supercar in London has always struck me as a rather odd thing to do.  I appreciate there are some very wealthy people in London and there's track days and stuff.  Most of the time though they just seem strike frustrated figures as they accelerate away from traffic lights very quickly only to have to brake immediately for the next set of lights 50 metres away (which is probably what caused the crash here).

If you're averaging 3mph on the Chelsea embankment the engine size seems less relevant.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 14, 2016)

BigTom said:


> Shocking footage shows drivers miss binmen by inches
> 
> Some crazy videos from Biffa showing drivers using pavements to pass bin lorries. 3,000 near misses a month! 80 incidents per month reported to staffordshire police alone


 
fucking disgusting. I get this weekly on my one way street, when it is bin day and all manner of tossers race the wrong way down a narrow street at school run time, to avoid being delayed by a minute by the bin lorry. There is a camera there now as the volumes were getting out of hand, yet they still do it each week. I called a black cabbie a cunt last week for this ( nothing new for me obvs) for this and he sat there red faced, giving it the "come and say that to my face " shite for several minutes- and he had a passenger on board. Seriously macho and bad news for everyone else on the road


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## not-bono-ever (Dec 15, 2016)

a cavalcade of facile twattery

London motorist screams after realising she's become caught using Snapchat selfie | live 24 news


----------



## snadge (Dec 15, 2016)

not-bono-ever said:


> a cavalcade of facile twattery
> 
> London motorist screams after realising she's become caught using Snapchat selfie | live 24 news




I just haven't got a clue what that article was trying to explain, the worst translating I have ever seen online, obviously it was a foriegn written article in the first place.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 15, 2016)

cyclist films some victims selfying at Holborn  and raps on widow, victim screams.

With any luck this post will prove to be the catalyst for a series of replies on the subject of " why cyclists are self rightous wankers"


----------



## Pingu (Dec 15, 2016)

not-bono-ever said:


> cyclist films some victims selfying at Holborn  and raps on widow, victim screams.
> 
> With any luck this post will prove to be the catalyst for a series of replies on the subject of " why cyclists are self rightous wankers"



well they are


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## hash tag (Dec 16, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> Owning a supercar in London has always struck me as a rather odd thing to do.
> 
> If you're averaging 3mph on the Chelsea embankment the engine size seems less relevant.



2 things. Owning a Chelsea tractor in London is also rather odd. And you could say owning a supercar is rather odd as our speed limits are 70MPH whereas a supercar is easily capable of twice that.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 16, 2016)

BTW, I had heard the only thing stopping the tractors getting any bigger was not being able to get through width restrictions like those on Albert Bridge. As it is, many people struggle to cope with them


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 16, 2016)

owning a supercar rarely has anything to do with speed though - See also black range rovers in London never having been off road


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 16, 2016)

hash tag said:


> BTW, I had heard the only thing stopping the tractors getting any bigger was not being able to get through width restrictions like those on Albert Bridge. As it is, many people struggle to cope with them



That and Waitrose car parks.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 16, 2016)

not-bono-ever said:


> owning a supercar rarely has anything to do with speed though - See also black range rovers in London never having been off road



The Range Rover thing is about status, as is super car, but also about comfort, they are well comfy to drive. The speed of super cars isn't really that great, my car is limited to 155mph, it's a five seater estate with enough room for a lanky lurcher plus a week's worth of luggage for the five people in the boot. A lot of super cars do look lovely though, the 458 is the best looking car out there imho, however I have had to reconsider cos if I won the lottery there is no way on earth I would get one, how could you not look like a right prick driving one? So super cars, hard to justify, Range Rovers no so hard to justify...


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2016)

not-bono-ever said:


> a cavalcade of facile twattery
> 
> London motorist screams after realising she's become caught using Snapchat selfie | live 24 news


I think that article was written by Mork and Mindy:



> A feminine motorist showing in order to the girl male traveler if you take the Snapchat selfie screamed in scary after realising she was in fact caught red-handed!
> 
> The video footage had been grabbed simply by the road protection campaigner as BMW motorist made use of both of your hands in order to fiddle together smartphone for over 30 moments in Holborn, main London!
> 
> ...


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 16, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I think that article was written by Mork and Mindy:



Nice up to date cultural reference there Spy. Down with the kids I see.


----------



## High Voltage (Dec 16, 2016)

hash tag said:


> . . . our speed limits are 70MPH whereas a supercar is easily capable of twice that.



That's not a supercar - 140mph is a car - a supercar should be at least 3 x the legal speed limit - if not, then leave it on the trailer sonny


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 16, 2016)

nanoo nanoo


----------



## weltweit (Dec 17, 2016)

Did a bit of bad driving myself on Friday.
I had to do an emergency stop from about 70 when the traffic in front of me suddenly slowed.
Not paying enough attention.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 17, 2016)

A lot of supercars can be hired for a day, people sometimes rent them on special occasions such as weddings or Eid, drive them like twats for a bit then hand them back. Sometimes they don't get away with it. I guess the excess/insurance must be pretty high to account for this.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 18, 2016)

Like this you mean  There is a sort of thread devoted to his. Hiring a supercar on the road I guess is about a grand with about £5k insurance. Alternatively, you can really let rip and safely, on a track day for a couple of hundred. Great fun too. 



hash tag said:


> You want a big wedding? check. 500 guests to the breakfast? check. You want to push the boat out? check.
> White wedding; everything white? fine. You want yor wedding in all the National Papers Etc. No problemo
> Ferrari 458 Spider owned by Lord Aleem worth £240,000 SMASHES into house


----------



## Kesher (Dec 18, 2016)

hash tag said:


> Facebook driver jailed over fatal crash in Southampton - BBC News
> Theres are car somewhere in there!



The lorry driver only got 6 years


----------



## existentialist (Dec 19, 2016)

Kesher said:


> The lorry driver only got 6 years


It'll be the longest 3 (I presume he'll qualify for early release) years of his life, even so.

I think there are moves afoot to change the law and increase the penalties for causing death by dangerous driving. I think there's certainly scope for particularly reckless or careless driving, but I do worry that this might just be one of those things where the level of sentencing ends up being determined by the level of public outrage, rather than necessarily reflecting the nature of the crime.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 19, 2016)

existentialist said:


> It'll be the longest 3 (I presume he'll qualify for early release) years of his life, even so.
> 
> I think there are moves afoot to change the law and increase the penalties for causing death by dangerous driving. I think there's certainly scope for particularly reckless or careless driving, but I do worry that this might just be one of those things where the level of sentencing ends up being determined by the level of public outrage, rather than necessarily reflecting the nature of the crime.




It's a tricky one. No one who drives does so without losing concentration from time to time. Sometimes that tiny moment of inattention can have catastrophic consequences, yet the perpetrator didn't set out to do any harm and didn't really do anything different to what we all do, all the time. So what is the point in putting them in prison?

Those who drive drunk, or who race on the public road, tweet, facebook or any of the other mad shit that people get up to, when they cause death and serious injury IMO they should face far harsher penalties as the destruction they cause is 100% avoidable and caused by their own selfish behaviour.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 19, 2016)

I think anyone who is convicted of death by dangerous or wrckless driving will have to live with it on their conscience for the rest of their lives. Then there is thier families and their livelehood in some cases. On the other side of the coin,  most of the people who get convicted of these actions never get anything near the maximum sentence as it is so I am not sure that increasing the sentence will do any good.
It is clear that more and more people are using their smart phones at the wheel and vehicles have increasingly sophisticated infotainment consoles in them these days. In a hire car I had recently, it was difficult to change from one media to another and from one radio station to another, a job which was taking minutes not seconds. Something has to be done about the education of drivers.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 19, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It's a tricky one. No one who drives does so without losing concentration from time to time. Sometimes that tiny moment of inattention can have catastrophic consequences, yet the perpetrator didn't set out to do any harm and didn't really do anything different to what we all do, all the time. So what is the point in putting them in prison?
> 
> Those who drive drunk, or who race on the public road, tweet, facebook or any of the other mad shit that people get up to, when they cause death and serious injury IMO they should face far harsher penalties as the destruction they cause is 100% avoidable and caused by their own selfish behaviour.



I think we need lifetime driving bans and generally much harsher driving bans being handed out (none of this, "I need it for my livelyhood your honor" crap, magistrates letting offenders off bans because they ask nicely), which are then followed by prison sentences if broken.
Agree totally on drunk driving, mobile use etc - these are totally negligent and those people have shown that they need to be locked up so they don't harm other people.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 19, 2016)

I think my driving skills may have declined a little. I haven't been driving as much as I used to which may be to blame, but apart from having to do an emergency stop on Friday, on Sunday I forgot to check my blind spot in the middle lane at night, indicated and started to move across before realising that another car already occupied that space!


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 19, 2016)

weltweit said:


> I think my driving skills may have declined a little. I haven't been driving as much as I used to which may be to blame, but apart from having to do an emergency stop on Friday, on Sunday I forgot to check my blind spot in the middle lane at night, indicated and started to move across before realising that another car already occupied that space!



Time to hand back your licence pops.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 19, 2016)

weltweit said:


> I think my driving skills may have declined a little. I haven't been driving as much as I used to which may be to blame, but apart from having to do an emergency stop on Friday, on Sunday I forgot to check my blind spot in the middle lane at night, indicated and started to move across before realising that another car already occupied that space!




That you are acknowledging these mistakes probably shows that you're actually not too bad behind the wheel


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 19, 2016)

I did an emergency stop last week.

Spilt vodka everywhere and my joint burned a hole in the carpet.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 19, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> Time to hand back your licence pops.


My dad drove into his late 70s, mind you his passengers weren't always happy about it


----------



## BigTom (Dec 19, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I did an emergency stop last week.
> 
> Spilt vodka everywhere and my joint burned a hole in the carpet.



This is why you should always drink from a bottle!



on my ride home tonight, a driver decided that they would overtake me and nearly crashed into an oncoming car and inches away from me in secondary position (around 50-75cm from the kerb when she started to overtake and a lot closer by the end). I caught up with her at the next junction a few hundred yards down the road obviously so she gained exactly 0 seconds with this, as is typical (not chasing, I cba, just cos of traffic, she goes nowhere). I'm going to get a camera now I think, as west mids police would have prosecuted that and she'd have an NIP on the way for due care & attention, 3 points + fine.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 19, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That you are acknowledging these mistakes probably shows that you're actually not too bad behind the wheel



yes, self-awareness / self-reflectivity seems to be missing amongst many road users (though that's mostly judged on facebook/twitter/youtube conversations I see rather than real life as I can never really be arsed to discuss things with drivers anymore). Also he indicated which is pretty rare around birmingham anyway so at least the other driver had a chance to react/beep.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 19, 2016)

BigTom said:


> This is why you should always drink from a bottle!


The windscreen gets in the way so I'd have to tilt my head at a weird angle and that would be dangerous.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 19, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> The windscreen gets in the way so I'd have to tilt my head at a weird angle and that would be dangerous.



nah, decant it into a smaller bottle, a water bottle is good cos at a glance the cops won't pay attention to it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 19, 2016)

BigTom said:


> Also he indicated which is pretty rare around birmingham anyway so at least the other driver had a chance to react/beep.



My car has a radar thing in the wing mirrors and when a vehicle is in your blind-spot an orange light comes on on the bit of the mirror casing that points towards the car. If when this is lit you indicate in that direction it blinks brightly and furiously. Which is a good safety device, alas it is an Audi, so of course we don't indicate before changing lanes...


----------



## High Voltage (Dec 19, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> I did an emergency stop last week.
> 
> Spilt vodka everywhere and my joint burned a hole in the carpet.



Know the feeling . . . not that long ago I had a bit of a mobile speed camera fright, luckily the number plates were covered in dirt so there's no way of tracking me, but the stress, I can tell you, I need 3 or 4 Vallies about an hour before setting off to take the edge off the worry


----------



## Cid (Dec 19, 2016)

hash tag said:


> I think anyone who is convicted of death by dangerous or wrckless driving will have to live with it on their conscience for the rest of their lives.



Or they just compartmentalise/move on. The odd troubling dream or moment of regret.



> Then there is thier families and their livelehood in some cases.



Same for anyone breaking the law.



> On the other side of the coin,  most of the people who get convicted of these actions never get anything near the maximum sentence as it is so I am not sure that increasing the sentence will do any good.



Er... I'm assuming they would increase sentences across the board. A judge considering a sentence can't just slap the maximum penalty on, they use sentencing guidelines, taking aggravating/mitigating circumstances into account. 



> It is clear that more and more people are using their smart phones at the wheel and vehicles have increasingly sophisticated infotainment consoles in them these days. In a hire car I had recently, it was difficult to change from one media to another and from one radio station to another, a job which was taking minutes not seconds. Something has to be done about the education of drivers.



Like sticking a fucking great sign on the console saying 'learn how to use the radio before you drive off'?



Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It's a tricky one. No one who drives does so without losing concentration from time to time. Sometimes that tiny moment of inattention can have catastrophic consequences, yet the perpetrator didn't set out to do any harm and didn't really do anything different to what we all do, all the time. So what is the point in putting them in prison?
> 
> Those who drive drunk, or who race on the public road, tweet, facebook or any of the other mad shit that people get up to, when they cause death and serious injury IMO they should face far harsher penalties as the destruction they cause is 100% avoidable and caused by their own selfish behaviour.



I think it's worth remembering that causing a fatal accident is judged against the standard of a competent and careful driver. You'll only get dangerous driving if you fall far below that standard... Careless simply if you fall below. So if someone gets a dangerous driving conviction the prosecution has to have shown they've fallen well below the standard of a competent and careful driver. I don't know what exactly standard the competent and careful driver is held to be (probably case law on it), but it's not the standard of an infallible or perfect driver. This is criminal conviction, not insurance companies battling it out over fault.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 6, 2017)

Why California banned holding smart phones in cars

California is to ban the holding of smart phones while driving.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 6, 2017)

weltweit said:


> Why California banned holding smart phones in cars
> 
> California is to ban the holding of smart phones while driving.




FFS, $20 fine for first offence, $50 for subsequent offences. Bit wank in'it.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 6, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> FFS, $20 fine for first offence, $50 for subsequent offences. Bit wank in'it.


Sure the penalty isn't much.

In other driving standards news:
Lord Heseltine fined for knocking cyclist off bike - BBC News


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 6, 2017)

Quite hefty that. Good.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2017)

weltweit said:


> Why California banned holding smart phones in cars
> 
> California is to ban the holding of smart phones while driving.


Hope the UK don't do that. My posting rate on here will plummet.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 6, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Hope the UK don't do that. My posting rate on here will plummet.



"From 1 January 2017 it will be illegal to have your phone in your hand while you're on the road"

So easy, just hold it with your foot, or mouth, or mount it on your steering wheel. They really haven't thought this one through


----------



## T & P (Jan 6, 2017)

Back to knocking one off while driving like in the old days, then.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 6, 2017)

T & P said:


> Back to knocking one off while driving like in the old days, then.



I used to laugh when you drove my school bus back in the 70's.

Times have changed dude.


----------



## porp (Jan 9, 2017)

As a self confessed not very good driver, I'd be genuinely grateful for advice on what I should do in a situation I now experience a lot


Roundabout controlled by lights.
I'm waiting to enter
Too much traffic from the right blocks me going straight.
My light goes green
I wait for my lane to clear, and my light goes red
Drivers behind me getting impatient
My late goes green, I go forward, blocking traffic from the right that has itself been delayed and is now trying to rush through.
Mayhem and horns and absurd threading between lanes.
I think it's all because light controlled roundabouts (which aren't great) make you forget abut normal priority from the right, but then things break down and it's all a bit last days of Rome.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 9, 2017)

Ignore the drivers behind you.
Even as a cyclist I don't stand for it.


----------



## T & P (Jan 9, 2017)

gentlegreen said:


> Ignore the drivers behind you.
> Even as a cyclist I don't stand for it.


The thing is, the layout at some junctions/ roundabouts means that at particularly busy times, if one observed the Highway Code to the letter, one would simply not be able to advance for hours at an end. 

It goes without saying that you should never put anyone at risk regardless of how many impatient drivers show their displeasure behind you, but in bumper-to-bumper situations where there is no real risk of a collision, sometimes there is no option but to to inch your way forward even if it means contravening some HC rule or other.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 12, 2017)

Cyclist killer's six-month sentence 'does not fit crime' - BBC News



> A six-month prison term handed to a motorist who killed an ex-international cyclist in a crash "does not fit the crime," British Cycling has said.
> 
> Motorcyclist Leighton Santos, 22, admitted causing David Hitchen's death through careless driving and was jailed at Preston Crown Court on Monday.
> 
> The maximum sentence is five years, but this can be reduced by a guilty plea.





> In addition to the six months for causing death by careless driving, Santos was also given 12 months for another motoring offence.
> 
> In March 2016 he was convicted at Manchester Crown Court of dangerous driving after taking police on an eight-mile pursuit that saw him reach speeds of up to 90mph (145km/h) in a 30mph zone.



What a cunt of a human, what shit sentencing.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 12, 2017)

I didn't expect that, a motorcyclist killing a cyclist! Really would have thought he would have been more cautious, thoughtful etc. Big big fail.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 12, 2017)

Interesting stuff from West midlands police:

Climbing Mountains….



> What is apparent from Op Close Pass is how little attention drivers actually pay to what is going on around them.


----------



## Tankus (Jan 14, 2017)

Going home in the dark last night .....there's a single twisty lane with scattered wide  passing spaces into the village.... saw the light of a car accelerating up to the bend in front of me.... past a well used wide bit for pulling in to let cars go through ... Then the car came around the corner still accelerating... .....and completely took out my night sight.....four beams ...but the middle two were like fucking lasers.....pulled hard into the bank and hedge folding my mirror with a bang..and scuffing the paint  over both wheel arches ...while the car hurtled past  inches to spare and I swear , rocking mine  ...,......got no idea what car it was ....?..or even the colour
I just sat there ...for minutes....letting my heart rate drop ...and waiting for my eyesight to return....what a bell end ......those spots can't have been legal....like a continual lightening flash.....
Closest I've had to a tap in a long time


----------



## weltweit (Jan 23, 2017)

Spotted this story of unfortunate driving, and guess what, it is an Audi :

Motorist narrowly escapes hitting car on two wheels


----------



## hash tag (Jan 23, 2017)

Thats impressive. Getting a car on 2 wheels to overtake slow moving traffic. Audi drivers are the best.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 23, 2017)

I hate to say this, but he probably got away with it as it is well engineered car rather than tricky driving skillz. Still don't like them though


----------



## hash tag (Jan 26, 2017)

This was in a 40 limit. Bet it was doing a little more than that! Shocking photos of wrecked BMW after woman seriously injured in Wandsworth crash


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 26, 2017)

Ouch. That's more than a crumple-zone there.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 26, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> I hate to say this, but he probably got away with it as it is well engineered car rather than tricky driving skillz. Still don't like them though


Having watched that video, he got away with it by pure luck. The Clio was slowing down, which he failed to account for when he jumped out in his haste from behind the car he was following, so he clipped his arse on that, and flipped himself up. Anyone capable of that idiocy isn't likely to suddenly manifest the motor skills necessary to keep his car up. It's bloody lucky he didn't smash into the van.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2017)

existentialist said:


> Having watched that video, he got away with it by pure luck. The Clio was slowing down, which he failed to account for when he jumped out in his haste from behind the car he was following, so he clipped his arse on that, and flipped himself up. Anyone capable of that idiocy isn't likely to suddenly manifest the motor skills necessary to keep his car up. It's bloody lucky he didn't smash into the van.


What you don't see there is the cyclist that is just out of shot who caused the accident by distracting the car drivers.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 26, 2017)

So tell me why do Beemer drivers have such a bad reputation BMW driver facing jail for killing student in street race


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2017)

hash tag said:


> So tell me why do Beemer drivers have such a bad reputation BMW driver facing jail for killing student in street race


Don't be fucking daft.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 22, 2017)

I'm just going to borrow your Lambo for an hour or two Man borrows pal's £900k Lamborghini to show off at party - but it ends in horror


----------



## weltweit (Feb 22, 2017)

When I was a biker we used to let our pals ride our bikes on the condition that they pay for anything they broke. If this guy had such a rule it could have prevented him borrowing the Lambo in the first place!


----------



## hash tag (Mar 8, 2017)

The penalties for driving on the phone have just increased (bringing the issue to everyones attention), the roads are busy, it's wet....(no mention of police action?)

Biker catches woman using her phone while driving - and she doesn't react well


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 8, 2017)

hash tag said:


> The penalties for driving on the phone have just increased (bringing the issue to everyones attention), the roads are busy, it's wet....(no mention of police action?)
> 
> Biker catches woman using her phone while driving - and she doesn't react well



Why is hands free still allowed though? We have it built in to the car, it does distract.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 8, 2017)

Agreed. I know not. But I have already mentioned, the in car infotainment systems are extremly complicated and very taxing to operate whilst driving.
They should be disabled unless the handbrake is applied?


----------



## weltweit (Mar 8, 2017)

What about satnav? I think ok when it is just working but to try and adjust it while moving would be extreme folly. In fact I think on Japanese satnavs adjustments are prohibited by software unless the vehicle is stationary. I would be happy to see that implemented here also.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 8, 2017)

Most modern infotainment now includes sat nav?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 8, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Most modern infotainment now includes sat nav?



Mine does and you can enter towns/postcodes whilst driving; would be as mad as reading a book whilst driving tho.

Same for the ipod function on it, you can scroll through every tune to see what you want. I've only got about 20,000 to choose from...


----------



## hash tag (Mar 8, 2017)

^^^that helps to explain ^^^


----------



## BigTom (Mar 8, 2017)

hash tag said:


> The penalties for driving on the phone have just increased (bringing the issue to everyones attention), the roads are busy, it's wet....(no mention of police action?)
> 
> Biker catches woman using her phone while driving - and she doesn't react well



West Mids police have caught a silly number of drivers this week, I can't remember the figure but they've fined/points for everyone and it adds up to £47,000!
Hopefully the police will act on that video footage, they will prosecute from video footage now in some forces and I think the met police do.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 8, 2017)

weltweit said:


> What about satnav? I think ok when it is just working but to try and adjust it while moving would be extreme folly. In fact I think on Japanese satnavs adjustments are prohibited by software unless the vehicle is stationary. I would be happy to see that implemented here also.


Waze does that - it asks you to confirm that you're the passenger if you press things while it's moving.

Ultimately, though, the responsibility - as it should - rests with the driver.


----------



## Winot (Mar 8, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Why is hands free still allowed though? We have it built in to the car, it does distract.



It's tricky to know how to change the law. The recent change didn't affect what was illegal, it just put up the points.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 9, 2017)

The law doesn't have to be specific about individual devices an behaviors TBF - if the filth want to do you, there are lots of existing regs they could do you under of they wanted- driving without due care and attention/ careless driving and stuff


----------



## gentlegreen (Mar 9, 2017)

Last week I told off one driver who was driving holding the wheel with just her right hand with a water bottle clamped between it and the wheel.

This morning there was one driver with a mobile obviously affecting their driving and a second one driving with no hands.

... I was running late, so encountered a load of impatient drivers driving at me in narrow streets so my standard "two for one at Specsavers" quip got a fair bit of use.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 9, 2017)




----------



## hash tag (Mar 29, 2017)

One way of dealing with someone driving like a twat
Siberia's strongest woman flips out at male driver in road rage video


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 29, 2017)

hash tag said:


> One way of dealing with someone driving like a twat
> Siberia's strongest woman flips out at male driver in road rage video



She needs locking up.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 29, 2017)

Well, I see he wasn't driving an Audi


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 29, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Well, I see he wasn't driving an Audi



Oh he drove badly, so needed to be assaulted and kidnapped. Perfectly reasonable behaviour


----------



## T & P (Mar 29, 2017)

Looks staged to me tbh...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 4, 2017)




----------



## existentialist (Apr 5, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


>


 Those are massively wide parking bays to start with!


----------



## hash tag (Apr 13, 2017)

This was a superb piece of driving that hit the national news recently. Drunk person with child in car goes flying...


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 13, 2017)

They had that on the BBC, I'm amused that the video has been flipped horizontally for the benefit of a US audience! Can't let their audience see people driving on the correct side of the road.


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 13, 2017)

The safety standards of modern cars is incredible.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 13, 2017)

Evil Kneival eat your heart out!


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 13, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> They had that on the BBC, I'm amused that the video has been flipped horizontally for the benefit of a US audience! Can't let their audience see people driving on the correct side of the road.


I was looking at that thinking something's a bit odd but it didn't click.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 13, 2017)

Aldershot runners' deaths: Soldier Michael Casey jailed - BBC News

Six years.

Reality will be 18 months per child he killed.

What.The.Fuck?



> Mrs Pygott described seeing her daughter's bloodied body after the crash and said: "That image traumatises me, it will stay with me until I die. No parent should ever have to see their innocent blameless child pointlessly killed."



What a worthless cunt


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 13, 2017)

Chilling descriptions from the parents, poor buggers.


Distracted by vomit? Fucking hell.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 15, 2017)

A great piece of parking BMW crashes through Banbury factory wall


----------



## dervish (Apr 18, 2017)

How did he even manage to get it in at that angle? WTF was he doing?


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 18, 2017)

It's bullshit.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 18, 2017)

That wasn't you was it?


----------



## T & P (Apr 18, 2017)

I must say the perfectly-fitting hole and the fact that the card would have hit the wall higher after the wheels had hit the kerb makes me think there is something fishy about it.

[/Pentagon911conspiracytheory]


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 18, 2017)

The petrol melted the bricks.


----------



## dervish (Apr 18, 2017)

Also the lack of any real damage on the front of the car, I would have thought the crumple zone at the front would have taken some of the impact.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 18, 2017)

More to the point, the driver would not be able to get out because the brickwork overlaps the front of the doors, meaning they can't open.


----------



## rubbershoes (Apr 18, 2017)

Also the complete lack of debris


----------



## twentythreedom (Apr 18, 2017)

They've clearly photoshopped it from the original Audi


----------



## hash tag (Apr 20, 2017)

hash tag said:


> At 10.30 this morning on a very busy road in Battersea, a Ferrari racing a Range Rover hits 6 people, knocks one flying over a bridge! Doesn't sound like anyone killed thankfully. TWAT.
> The person in the high viz on the right is looking over the bridge where the pedestrian went flying, on to a car!



Driving without due care and attention! 
Ferrari driver charged after horror crash that left seven teenagers injured

Still nobody died!


----------



## hash tag (Apr 21, 2017)




----------



## hash tag (Apr 24, 2017)

You can take cars to a track (though not supposed to if they are hired)

Supercars stopped by police on M1 'during race' - BBC News


----------



## dervish (Apr 25, 2017)

How does impounding a hire car work then? Presumably the person hiring the car is going to be liable for a hell of a lot of costs.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 25, 2017)

dervish said:


> How does impounding a hire car work then?


Exactly the same way as impounding a private car, except that the hirer is responsible for all costs, any damage, late return fees, etc.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 25, 2017)

dervish said:


> How does impounding a hire car work then? Presumably the person hiring the car is going to be liable for a hell of a lot of costs.



Would have thought the same way as impounded sound system, once it's rented credentials are established it can be returned unless it is held as evidence in a crime, which the renter would then be liable for the charges, unless found not guilty when the police become liable for the charges.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 25, 2017)

In this case I'd expect these chaps to be out of pocket by about a grand a day whilst the OB have the cars.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 25, 2017)

Un-fucking-lucky. 

I cannot see the filth expediting the release process to minimise these arseholes late fees


----------



## weltweit (Apr 25, 2017)

I had a slight scare a few days ago. Approaching a left hand corner a truck was coming towards me and they were a foot over the while middle line. I could fit between that and the verge but it was definitely some mis-driving from the trucker.

He was probably in the middle of facebooking his mates!


----------



## hash tag (Apr 27, 2017)

bit like this?

Police offer groom unusual wedding present after spotting this selfie


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2017)

^^^ Is he in a left hand drive car?


----------



## hash tag (Apr 27, 2017)

Look at whole picture, notcreflection in shades. It's right.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 27, 2017)

ignorant bearded fuckpig Geordie wanker


----------



## hash tag (May 8, 2017)

Hey, look mum, Im driving on the M6, with no hands! (sorry about linky)

WATCH: Driver filmed eating  POT NOODLE whilst speeding on the M6


----------



## T & P (May 10, 2017)

I want a Pot Noodle now


----------



## BigTom (May 12, 2017)

Posting the tweet rather than screenshot so people can follow the conversation back for context



for those on tapatalk or whatever, this is West Mids traffic police saying that in 20/30mph zones, 78% of drivers speed, and would be 90%+ if not for congestion, and that they did one rural speed check where not a single driver managed to keep within the speed limit.


----------



## Teaboy (May 12, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Posting the tweet rather than screenshot so people can follow the conversation back for context
> 
> 
> 
> for those on tapatalk or whatever, this is West Mids traffic police saying that in 20/30mph zones, 78% of drivers speed, and would be 90%+ if not for congestion, and that they did one rural speed check where not a single driver managed to keep within the speed limit.




The 20mph are really a problem, no one seems to give a rats arse especially the police, its just not enforced in London. If you drive at 20mph in these areas in London you'll have traffic crawling all over your arse trying to overtake.

As for the rural stuff, well that's always been a problem.  I've always loved the little signs (hand drawn by the local primary school kids) requesting people slow down in the village whilst the locals all speed around the place mostly drunk.


----------



## BigTom (May 12, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> The 20mph are really a problem, no one seems to give a rats arse especially the police, its just not enforced in London. If you drive at 20mph in these areas in London you'll have traffic crawling all over your arse trying to overtake.
> 
> As for the rural stuff, well that's always been a problem.  I've always loved the little signs (hand drawn by the local primary school kids) requesting people slow down in the village whilst the locals all speed around the place mostly drunk.



Yep - West Mids Police are enforcing the 20mph limits in this area but they are basically ignored. They are also doing that with kids, but having the police pull speeding drivers over, who then get the choice between points/fine or going to "kids court" where they get dressed down by the schoolkids, I remember someone, Banhoff Strasse I think, saying police in their area do this as well - it's a great idea I think.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 16, 2017)




----------



## hash tag (May 16, 2017)

The 20 limits are crazy. Round here they are on lots of side roads and some main roads. The roads around the commons, which are not fenced 
and well used by people of all ages and for dog walking are all 30. Theses roads should be 20. Also, if they made entire areas 20, it would be less sinage and could easily be monitered by average speed cameras


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 25, 2017)

Parents of athlete killed in crash reject 'joke' six-year sentence


----------



## mauvais (May 25, 2017)

GMP stopped rolling out 20 mph zones because it's a waste of everyone's time. Quite right IMO - the blanket implementation produced a disconnect between authority and drivers.


----------



## Teaboy (May 25, 2017)

mauvais said:


> GMP stopped rolling out 20 mph zones because it's a waste of everyone's time. Quite right IMO - the blanket implementation produced a disconnect between authority and drivers.



I agree to an extent.  Inappropriate speed limits are useless because they are widely ignored.  Stick 20mph everywhere seems to mean that everyone just gets on and speeds which is crap because there are a lot of roads where 20mph is entirely appropriate.


----------



## hash tag (May 25, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Parents of athlete killed in crash reject 'joke' six-year sentence



Not quite sure what the sentence was as headline says 6 years and there are severl references in the text to 3 years. That is neither here nor there.
Something of little consequence is the killer has to live with this on his conscience for the rest of his life.

As for speed limits; 20 is being rolled out all over the place in Wandsworth and not very well at that. In many places, it is clear speeds are being monitored. I am sure that if drivers do not adhere to the limit, speed humps/cameras or whatever will be introduced.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 25, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Not quite sure what the sentence was as headline says 6 years and there are severl references in the text to 3 years. That is neither here nor there.



Over the drink drive limit, speeding, distracted + defective vehicle. Killed two girls, got 6 years, 3 of which must be served in prison. 18 months prison per girl killed. 

No sentence can bring them back, but it's very hard to see where 18 months inside per life is fitting when he was so very reckless.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 30, 2017)

Chap pootling down the A3 enjoying a refreshing can of Kronenbourg...  Driver swigging can of beer at the wheel caught on police camera


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 30, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Chap pootling down the A3 enjoying a refreshing can of Kronenbourg...  Driver swigging can of beer at the wheel caught on police camera




A cyclist cut him up and he had to steady his nerves afterwards. 

Fucking cyclists.


----------



## Teaboy (May 30, 2017)

Assuming he's not over the limit is he actually breaking the law?  A dumb thing to do for sure but which law is he breaking?


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Assuming he's not over the limit is he actually breaking the law?  A dumb thing to do for sure but which law is he breaking?


He's not breaking the law but it's absolutely guaranteed to get you a pull if the OB see it, therefore fucking stupid.


----------



## hash tag (May 30, 2017)

Lets hope he didn't spill anything.
Bahnhof Strasse, you might know the roads that run between Brookwood Cemetary, through the ranges. I was driving home towards Farnborough from Woking one afternoon when I came across a car that was twisted at right angles to the road; it had smashed into a tree. The roads, are fast, undulating, quite narrow and bendy. The first thing I did was stop my car, a safe distance away, hazards Etc. Before checking on the car. There were two adults only in the car, both injured but not too badly and two bags of fish and chips all over the insides. Had they not been eating their food, it would have still been safely wrapped in paper


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 30, 2017)

hash tag I am aware of these roads, my mate Rich lives in Knaphill, so am in the area frequently. Thanks for the advice, from now on my fish supper will remain wrapped for the journey, with just a side order of battered sausage resting between my hand and the wheel to satisfy the need for in-journey nutrition.


----------



## mauvais (May 30, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> He's not breaking the law


'Driving without due care & attention', the legal catch-all.


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 30, 2017)

BigTom said:


> for those on tapatalk or whatever, this is West Mids traffic police saying that in 20/30mph zones, 78% of drivers speed, and would be 90%+ if not for congestion, and that they did one rural speed check where not a single driver managed to keep within the speed limit.


Then , quite obviously, the speed limits need to be raised to a more appropriate level.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2017)

mauvais said:


> 'Driving without due care & attention', the legal catch-all.


They still have to show that the actual _driving_ fell below the required standard which in this blokes case, it didn't apparently. If he's not over the limit and not driving badly it's no different (legally) to having a swig from a bottle of water and I think we've all done that, haven't we?


----------



## High Voltage (May 30, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> . . . it's no different (legally) to having a swig from a bottle of water and I think we've all done that, haven't we?



I seem to remember several years ago a case popping up under the heading of  "Outraged of BlahBlah" where someone did, in fact, get nicked for doing just that, whilst stationary, in a queue of traffic, with the hand brake on


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2017)

High Voltage said:


> I seem to remember several years ago a case popping up under the heading of  "Outraged of BlahBlah" where someone did, in fact, get nicked for doing just that, whilst stationary, in a queue of traffic, with the hand brake on


Wasn't that about someone using a phone?


----------



## mauvais (May 30, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> They still have to show that the actual _driving_ fell below the required standard which in this blokes case, it didn't apparently. If he's not over the limit and not driving badly it's no different (legally) to having a swig from a bottle of water and I think we've all done that, haven't we?


Below the standard of a competent & careful driver, I think it goes, and I doubt many would find it to be that.


----------



## hash tag (May 30, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> They still have to show that the actual _driving_ fell below the required standard which in this blokes case, it didn't apparently. If he's not over the limit and not driving badly it's no different (legally) to having a swig from a bottle of water and I think we've all done that, haven't we?



NO. My car is not a bar or cafeteria!

There are a few instances of things like this making the news Woman driver fined £100 for eating banana in traffic jam


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2017)

I've had a motorcycle cop tap on the window whilst I was stationary in traffic and putting a postcode into my satnav (iPhone). He just pointed at it and mouthed "put it down".


----------



## hash tag (May 30, 2017)

Twice the drink drive limit, kids in the back and answers the phone before crashing, class Mother crashed into five cars after drinking wine at birthday party


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2017)

hash tag said:


> There are a few instances of things like this making the news Woman driver fined £100 for eating banana in traffic jam


Well that's an example. The copper said she wasn't in control because she was peeling a banana without both hands on the wheel. If she was moving then fair enough, but if she was stationary the copper's a fucking idiot and she should have challenged it in court. There's probably usually a bit more to these cases than gets reported.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2017)

hash tag said:


> My car is not a bar or cafeteria!


Mine has 4 cup holders in it that fold neatly away when I'm not getting pissed.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 30, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Twice the drink drive limit, kids in the back and answers the phone before crashing, class Mother crashed into five cars after drinking wine at birthday party


 
Neck shot and shallow grave for that, Fucking despicable behavior


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 30, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Neck shot and shallow grave for that, Fucking despicable behavior



Really? Thought she'd be more welcome here...

City property executive: check
her 4x4 Land Rover: check
who is a director at BNP Paribas Real Estate: check
Hewes was arrested at the £1.15 million home in Southfields: Bingo!


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 30, 2017)

her linkedin is still up and running, I think that will be down before the day is out.


----------



## High Voltage (May 30, 2017)

Nope, taking a drink from a bottle of water

BBC News | UK | Driver booked for sipping water


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2017)

High Voltage said:


> Nope, taking a drink from a bottle of water
> 
> BBC News | UK | Driver booked for sipping water


Ludicrous. Hopefully the court told the OB not to be so bloody silly.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 31, 2017)

hash tag, Get Surrey's website has an article about drivers caught using mobiles, thought you'd appreciate the picture used to demonstrate this behaviour:



Spoiler: GET SURREY


----------



## hash tag (May 31, 2017)

I wonder, was that car chosen deliberately? 
It's not you, is it?
BTW I love Audi and Beemer drivers, most are so easy to wind up!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 31, 2017)

hash tag said:


> I wonder, was that car chosen deliberately?
> It's not you, is it?
> BTW I love Audi and Beemer drivers, most are so easy to wind up!



That car has an inbuilt bluetooth phone, so not sure why the driver has his phone out? Probably to take a picture of the Alfa on the hard shoulder, steam pouring from under the bonnet...


----------



## hash tag (May 31, 2017)

Wot? Bit like this


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 31, 2017)

The R8 is possibly the shittiest 'supercar' going. Just why on earth would anyone spend that much money on one of those when you compare to what else you can get for the same dosh? So they deserve to break down, preferably on a level crossing.


----------



## hash tag (May 31, 2017)

You have the gall to speak about Alfa's, besides, I thought they were supposed to be Lamborgini's in disguise?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 31, 2017)

hash tag said:


> You have the gall to speak about Alfa's, besides, I thought they were supposed to be Lamborgini's in disguise?



Audi's are Lambo's in disguise? Nope, Audi are the car which has saved the Italian car's bacon. No more, no less.


----------



## T & P (May 31, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Well that's an example. The copper said she wasn't in control because she was peeling a banana without both hands on the wheel. If she was moving then fair enough, but if she was stationary the copper's a fucking idiot and she should have challenged it in court. There's probably usually a bit more to these cases than gets reported.


 It's bullshit of the highest order, and if the Highway Code actually stipulates anywhere that if one does not have both hands at the wheel when the car and traffic around it is stationary it amounts to not being in control of your vehicle, then the Highway Code is a worthless piece of crap not fit for wiping your arse with.


----------



## mauvais (May 31, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The R8 is possibly the shittiest 'supercar' going. Just why on earth would anyone spend that much money on one of those when you compare to what else you can get for the same dosh? So they deserve to break down, preferably on a level crossing.


Ideally not. Might damage a perfectly good train.


----------



## DownwardDog (Jun 1, 2017)

hash tag said:


> You have the gall to speak about Alfa's, besides, I thought they were supposed to be Lamborgini's in disguise?



The R8 and Gallardo are about 70% the same car sharing the platform, engine and transmission. There are loads of parts on them with both Audi and Lambo logos.







I doubt either of them are the last word in reliability.


----------



## DownwardDog (Jun 1, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The R8 is possibly the shittiest 'supercar' going. Just why on earth would anyone spend that much money on one of those when you compare to what else you can get for the same dosh? So they deserve to break down, preferably on a level crossing.



I wouldn't have one personally but I reckon they're pretty good value in their price bracket (120-140k). What else are you going to get for that money? A Mc540C might be alright but the residuals are terrible. A 911 Turbo would be a decent proposition if you took it easy on the options I suppose.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 1, 2017)

Vantage V12

It will break down, but will do so outside a lap dancing joint.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 3, 2017)

Why have they started offering these driver awareness courses instead of prosecuting people?

Witcham horse crash driver will not be prosecuted - BBC News


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 3, 2017)

sleaterkinney said:


> Why have they started offering these driver awareness courses instead of prosecuting people?
> 
> Witcham horse crash driver will not be prosecuted - BBC News


For people with money, who might live in the same village as the judge.


----------



## BigTom (Jun 3, 2017)

sleaterkinney said:


> Why have they started offering these driver awareness courses instead of prosecuting people?
> 
> Witcham horse crash driver will not be prosecuted - BBC News



better than taking no action at all, not sure if speed awareness courses have evidence showing they are more effective at producing behaviour change within the group of low level speeders which may influence the growth of driver awareness courses. I'd be happy with drivers who are getting caught in the close pass operations (where they put out plains clothes police on bicycles and pick up anyone who passes too close) being sent on these rather than prosecuted, aside from the worst/seriously dangerous offenders - as now they get a short roadside educational intervention and no prosecution as long as they show willing/understanding.


----------



## weltweit (Jun 3, 2017)

How many of you pay extra to protect your no claims bonus?


----------



## mojo pixy (Jun 3, 2017)

I did a 20mph speed awareness course once. It cost 75 quid and took 3 hours of one day, which was a bargain compared to a £100 fine and 3 points.

Can only do one every 3 years though iirc.

Courses | National Driver Offenders Rehabilitation Scheme


----------



## hash tag (Jun 3, 2017)

That clip is really  horrible. It was appalling driving. The driver was certainly not driving with due care and consideration.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 3, 2017)

Way too fast for the conditions combined with target fixation.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 5, 2017)

Quite impressive?
Man caught having sex with female passenger while driving on a motorway


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 6, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Quite impressive?
> Man caught having sex with female passenger while driving on a motorway



At least he was having sex with someone else. I have a customer who before he joined AA & CA once furiously masturbated as he drove past the Metro Centre at 100mph.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 6, 2017)

It would have been safey by themself (either way).


----------



## weltweit (Jun 10, 2017)




----------



## T & P (Jul 8, 2017)

Porsche driver messes with the wrong Audi


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 8, 2017)

Which is why my pennies are being saved for an RS6


----------



## weltweit (Jul 8, 2017)

T & P said:


> Porsche driver messes with the wrong Audi



Looks like a fairly routine bit of Autobahn driving


----------



## weltweit (Jul 8, 2017)

A bus was all over the place Friday morning. kept crossing the middle lines, made me wonder if the driver was still drunk from the night before.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 13, 2017)

Jail for cocaine driver who killed Newport grandmother - BBC News



> A father-of-two has been jailed for eight years and eight months for killing a grandmother while sniffing cocaine at the wheel of his van.
> 
> Ryan Reardon, 34, hit seven other vehicles in his van in Newport before crashing into 70-year-old Christine Rowe's car head-on, killing her and seriously injuring her husband Brian.
> 
> ...




Also banned for 14 years - jail sentence seems ok, think that's similar to alot of murder sentences but why no lifetime driving ban, surel he has shown he can never be trusted behind the wheel?


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 14, 2017)

Six times the legal drug-drive limit? So exactly how much gear can you take and remain legal then?


----------



## BigTom (Jul 14, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Six times the legal drug-drive limit? So exactly how much gear can you take and remain legal then?



The New Drug Driving law Limits - Forster Dean



> The specified limits “per litre of blood” for all substances to be included in the new offence are as follows:
> ...
> 
> Cocaine 10
> ...



or from Release:



> Benzoylecgonine (BZE)
> 
> Limit: 50mcg/l
> 
> ...




Drug Driving


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 14, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Jail for cocaine driver who killed Newport grandmother - BBC News
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At least the ban now starts from the date you are released from prison, used to run concurrently with any time inside.


But yeah, what a fucking cunt that cunt is


----------



## BigTom (Jul 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> At least the ban now starts from the date you are released from prison, used to run concurrently with any time inside.
> 
> 
> But yeah, what a fucking cunt that cunt is



I didn't know that, that is good.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 14, 2017)

mauvais said:


> Way too fast for the conditions combined with target fixation.



Driving on the right hand side of the road was a pretty basic error.


----------



## mauvais (Jul 14, 2017)

Poi E said:


> Driving on the right hand side of the road was a pretty basic error.


They didn't start off on the wrong side of the road. Either (or both) they understeered out of their lane because they were going too fast and couldn't physically make it, or once things got difficult, they focused on the horses and went where they were looking, which is what target fixation is.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 17, 2017)

Student who killed man in crash spared jail due to 'survivor's guilt'


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 17, 2017)

racing on the street, killing someone - and all he realistically gets is community service ? fuckin hell


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 17, 2017)

No such thing as justice in this stinking country.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 17, 2017)

That report does not even mention points and a ban, jsut community service. Causing death while at the wheel of a car is surely the equivelent of manslaughter?
It is, unfortunately, an old old arguement which according to reports was going attract stiffer sentences.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 17, 2017)

At least here in WM, one got jailed. Deserves it just for driving an ST!

We do seem to have a stricter stance on this, with multiple 'no crusing' zones now in place, not that it stops it of course.

West Midlands Police


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 17, 2017)

hash tag said:


> That report does not even mention points and a ban, jsut community service. Causing death while at the wheel of a car is surely the equivelent of manslaughter?
> It is, unfortunately, an old old arguement which according to reports was going attract stiffer sentences.



Shit happens, crashes happen, nearly always someone is at fault but often the level of fault is minor even if the consequences are major.

Once you get people racing each other 50% above the speed limit, the culpability for when it goes wrong is so much higher and should attract a harsh penalty. Not community service, ffs.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 26, 2017)

Get Surrey has released a top 10 of bad parking and I am very pleased to see that at #1 is my local high street and an Audi



Spoiler: Class motor


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 26, 2017)

Are there not exemptions from law for Surrey mothers who have already dropped the kids at the child minder and will spend the rest of the day in Costa complaining about how hard their life is?


----------



## hash tag (Jul 26, 2017)

Is that you Bahnhof Strasse or is it only Frau Strasse does naughty things in the car


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 26, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Are there not exemptions from law for Surrey mothers who have already dropped the kids at the child minder and will spend the rest of the day in Costa complaining about how hard their life is?



Of course there are, after all she's only holding up a bus, so a bunch of proles heading for the proley part of town, Eashing. They can wait, it's not like they can't watch Jeremy Kyle on catch-up.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 26, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Is that you Bahnhof Strasse or is it only Frau Strasse does naughty things in the car



Neither I'm afraid. Frau Bahn won't allow us to get an SUV, says they are not ethical (she's a confused woman). Shame really as I'm being drawn to the SQ7.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 26, 2017)

Does she drive the Audi as well but says an SUV is not ethical 
I am wrestling with the notion of getting the Epace when it's launched at the end of the year - thats only a tiny SUV.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 26, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Get Surrey has released a top 10 of bad parking and I am very pleased to see that at #1 is my local high street and an Audi


It’s why the manufacturer factory-fits abusive epithets on the car for no extra charge.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 26, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Are there not exemptions from law for Surrey mothers who have already dropped the kids at the child minder and will spend the rest of the day in Costa complaining about how hard their life is?



Plus it's not as if there's any car parks in Godalming, these circled are fucking miles away, may as well be on the moon...



Spoiler: No car parks


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 26, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Does she drive the Audi as well but says an SUV is not ethical
> I am wrestling with the notion of getting the Epace when it's launched at the end of the year - thats only a tiny SUV.



She drives it a lot more than I do, the car was her choice as she feels we should be able to take the kids with us when we go out, which is just daft.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 26, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Of course there are, after all she's only holding up a bus, so a bunch of proles heading for the proley part of town, Eashing. They can wait, it's not like they can't watch Jeremy Kyle on catch-up.



no - look behind the bus, there are two cars in picture and who knows how many more behind them. One of them looks like a shitty little plastic thing but the other could be a classy vehicle for all we know. We can speculate wildly on the vehicles that could be out of shot of course.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 26, 2017)

Actually I think the bus is the problem here, it's blocking the way.  If it wasn't there those cars behind could get past.  Bit of a road blocking and polluting menace buses, they should consider banishing the buses to the outskirts of the town like Mumbai has done with tuk tuks.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 26, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Actually I think the bus is the problem here, it's blocking the way.  If it wasn't there those cars behind could get past.  Bit of a road blocking and polluting menace buses, they should consider banishing the buses to the outskirts of the town like Mumbai has done with tuk tuks.



And when people do park off the road they get tickets, this poor sod has had three in the past two weeks whilst parked in the same spot that I've seen and I've only been down that road three times in the past two weeks, so he probably has many more tickets


----------



## nick (Jul 27, 2017)

Why ticket that? It's a considerate bit of parking, doubtless to prevent blind men from castrating themselves on that egregious railing placement to the right


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 27, 2017)

nick said:


> Why ticket that? It's a considerate bit of parking, doubtless to prevent blind men from castrating themselves on that egregious railing placement to the right



It is a legitimate off-peak parking spot, as long as you like during evenings and Sundays, but only 15 minutes on weekdays and Saturdays, idea is to stop traders/shop workers from taking up space from people nipping to the shops, thus helping stop the high street from dieing. The Range Rover belongs to the owner of the Barbaracca restaurant just to the left of the car, he seems to think the fine is a reasonable price to pay to park in front of the place, quite bizarre as there is car park right behind the restaurant:


----------



## nick (Jul 27, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> quite bizarre as there is car park right behind the restaurant
> View attachment 112176


He has a Range Rover with a personalised plate. Why on earth would he want to put it in a car park and walk across the road, when he could just beach it outside his restaurant door?


----------



## hash tag (Jul 28, 2017)

Today, I shall be picking up my brand new Ferrari and take it for a spin on the M1. Maybe I'll even get to take it home, or perhaps not

Man has ‘miracle escape’ after crashing newly acquired £200,000 Ferrari


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 28, 2017)

"It was a Ferrari"

Still is a Ferrari, just a wrecked one


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 28, 2017)

its a bit shit isn't it , likely put his foot down to impress someone, arse kickedout and he powered into a field on fire. very few people a re proper skillz drivers but surely it is common sense to take it gently and get a feel for the car before you start pushing it?  fool


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 28, 2017)

That'll buff out.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 28, 2017)

Bit of tcut and a good polish like


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 28, 2017)

Some of the bits still look intact there, all he has to do it get on ebay for the rest of them as spares and fit them all together. Meccano, basically.

Do Haynes do manuals for Ferraris?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 1, 2017)

No blue badge, obviously


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 1, 2017)

Am I alone in subconciously reaching for my keys as I look at that picture?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 1, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> Am I alone in subconciously reaching for my keys as I look at that picture?


----------



## hash tag (Aug 1, 2017)

Fair play to them; they tried to get it into a space and they were shopping at the Coop.


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 1, 2017)

Puts poor old Mr.Saahd snapped at Eastville Tescos earlier this year to shame. He actually bothered to chuck his car across a quiet side of the car park...


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 1, 2017)

Thing is, these days there's no point even complaining to the shop / GP surgery / office / wherever about some selfish dick parked badly in the car park, because 9/10 times the car park belongs to someone other than the place it services, so they can't do anything about it even if they want to.

/edit to add: I drive disabled people around as part of my job, and the number of times all the disabled spaces (or the one single disabled space) are taken up by vehicle(s) without a blue badge is beyond counting.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 1, 2017)

this could come in handy sometimes:


----------



## hash tag (Aug 1, 2017)

Is there anything better than going for a swim while on holiday? Fail! Impatient motorist drives off ferry too early... - CARmag.co.za


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 1, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> Thing is, these days there's no point even complaining to the shop / GP surgery / office / wherever about some selfish dick parked badly in the car park, because 9/10 times the car park belongs to someone other than the place it services, so they can't do anything about it even if they want to.
> 
> /edit to add: I drive disabled people around as part of my job, and the number of times all the disabled spaces (or the one single disabled space) are taken up by vehicle(s) without a blue badge is beyond counting.


i would key that

Yes, go on, call me a cunt.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 8, 2017)

What is it with Co-Op's and Range Rovers round 'ere?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 8, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> View attachment 112564
> 
> 
> 
> No blue badge, obviously





Bahnhof Strasse said:


> What is it with Co-Op's and Range Rovers round 'ere?
> 
> View attachment 113002



Same wanky parking, similar shit cars. I reckon this is a his 'n hers job.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 9, 2017)

,


----------



## Crispy (Aug 9, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> Am I alone in subconciously reaching for my keys as I look at that picture?


I'd be scouting around for a loose brick


----------



## hash tag (Aug 9, 2017)

especially for Bahnhof Strasse Another Undescribable Driving Indulgence

Reckless Audi Driver Overtakes Car By Veering On To Central Reservation - LBC


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 9, 2017)

^^^ Fucking hell.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 9, 2017)

hash tag said:


> especially for Bahnhof Strasse Another Undescribable Driving Indulgence
> 
> Reckless Audi Driver Overtakes Car By Veering On To Central Reservation - LBC



Tis why they have four wheel drive.

*shrugs


----------



## hash tag (Aug 9, 2017)

And not because we shoud respect the superiority of Audi drivers and automatically move out of their way.
This is what happens if we are stupid enough to block their way


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 9, 2017)

hash tag said:


> And not because we shoud respect the superiority of Audi drivers and automatically move out of their way.
> This is what happens if we are stupid enough to block their way



Quite. You'll note that just before our intrepid man of class and taste has to make his move the M3 swiftly gets the fuck out of the way.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 9, 2017)

Audi is the new (has replaced the) BMW


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 9, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Audi is the new (has replaced the) BMW



Sitting pretty at the top of the tree dude.


----------



## T & P (Aug 11, 2017)

He should have got himself one of these stickers...


----------



## 2hats (Aug 11, 2017)

T & P said:


> He should have got himself one of these stickers...


To encourage them to pull out into oncoming traffic?


----------



## 2hats (Aug 11, 2017)

The great thing about Audi’s is they come with a factory fitted sign to indicate a dick is ahead of or behind you (thoughtfully they are mirror reversible).


----------



## Poi E (Aug 13, 2017)

Audi do seem to be the choice of junior gangsters around our parts, with BMW dropping to Toyota levels of blandness.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 25, 2017)

Keepin' it classy


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 25, 2017)

Fucking hell.


----------



## 2hats (Aug 25, 2017)

Are you sure that isn’t just one of those Ghanaian coffins? (Hmm might have just _discovery_ed something there). Bring out your brain dead?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 25, 2017)

scum

what is it about the land/range rover brand that appeals so much to utter arseholes ? I had to have a word some a cunt in one last week who sat outside my house with the diesel engine ticking over for an hour as he waited for his mrs. An hour


----------



## sleaterkinney (Aug 25, 2017)

Wonder if this will get the coverage that cyclist got..

Driver killed OAP cyclist then pretended to be innocent bystander

He didn't even go to jail..


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 25, 2017)

sleaterkinney said:


> Wonder if this will get the coverage that cyclist got..
> 
> Driver killed OAP cyclist then pretended to be innocent bystander
> 
> He didn't even go to jail..



Quite right. The coverage of these things and the law is borked.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 25, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Quite right. The coverage of these things and the law is borked.




Oh yeah: 'Off her face' drug driver convicted for crashing into boy - BBC News

Suspended sentence.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 25, 2017)

In a 400 yard stretch of road, and only on my side, I just passed three cars parked at bus stops. It's rush hour and this is one of the main roads into the city centre for buses and indeed everyone else. One of the cars had a completely unattended infant child in the front seat.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 25, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> In a 400 yard stretch of road, and only on my side, I just passed three cars parked at bus stops. It's rush hour and this is one of the main roads into the city centre for buses and indeed everyone else. *One of the cars had a completely unattended infant child in the front seat.*



Should have grabbed it, that would teach them.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 25, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Should have grabbed it, that would teach them.



If it was related to the driver then it presumably had a whole range of inherited defects.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 25, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> If it was related to the driver then it presumably had a whole range of inherited defects.



e-bay >>>


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 25, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> e-bay >>>



"1 careless owner..."


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 25, 2017)

Could give it to the Mccanns. The driver would learn a lesson, the Mccanns can stop banging on now they have a replacement and the Express can get back to mourning Diana.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 25, 2017)




----------



## hash tag (Sep 13, 2017)

An Audi driver (disqualified), with a sense of entitlement. 

PA mum found drunk beside crashed Audi begs judge to let her still drive to work


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2017)

hash tag said:


> View attachment 115554
> 
> An Audi driver (disqualified), with a sense of entitlement.
> 
> PA mum found drunk beside crashed Audi begs judge to let her still drive to work



Tbf she wasn't driving, so why the ban?


----------



## hash tag (Sep 13, 2017)

You believe that? No one else appeared to.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 13, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Tbf she wasn't driving, so why the ban?


Audi driver - it's compulsory to ban them.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2017)

fishfinger said:


> Audi driver - it's compulsory to ban them.



A1 though, hardly quality road-cunt material.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 13, 2017)

The car or the driver?

(gets coat)


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2017)

You'll like this hash tag, Frau Bahn got a speeding ticket in the post today, same fucking camera that I got done with.


----------



## T & P (Sep 13, 2017)

I remember someone telling me once that you could be prosecuted for being 'in charge of a vehicle whilst drunk' for merely being in the driver's seat even if the car was parked with the engine off and no key in the contact. It sounds as being in the front passenger seat can also get you prosecuted.

I suppose such law exists to deal with drunk drivers who stop their car and switch seats if signalled to stop by a police patrol. It'd be a cunt's trick if someone who, say,  had driven to a campsite or festival hours earlier and had since got drunk was seen sitting in their car listening to the radio or sleeping, and got done for it if the car hadn't moved.


----------



## Santino (Sep 14, 2017)

T & P said:


> I remember someone telling me once that you could be prosecuted for being 'in charge of a vehicle whilst drunk' for merely being in the driver's seat even if the car was parked with the engine off and no key in the contact.


I knew this from watching the 1980s sitcom Three Up, Two Down.


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## existentialist (Sep 14, 2017)

T & P said:


> I remember someone telling me once that you could be prosecuted for being 'in charge of a vehicle whilst drunk' for merely being in the driver's seat even if the car was parked with the engine off and no key in the contact. It sounds as being in the front passenger seat can also get you prosecuted.
> 
> I suppose such law exists to deal with drunk drivers who stop their car and switch seats if signalled to stop by a police patrol. It'd be a cunt's trick if someone who, say,  had driven to a campsite or festival hours earlier and had since got drunk was seen sitting in their car listening to the radio or sleeping, and got done for it if the car hadn't moved.


It's an issue for camper van owners. Strictly speaking, if your vehicle is on, or near a public highway, and you're in the back, pissed and asleep, you can be breathalysed and charged.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2017)

existentialist said:


> It's an issue for camper van owners. Strictly speaking, if your vehicle is on, or near a public highway, and you're in the back, pissed and asleep, you can be breathalysed and charged.



This woman wasn't in her car, merely near it. So we could all get done for being pissed in bed whilst the car is on the drive...


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## hash tag (Sep 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You'll like this hash tag, Frau Bahn got a speeding ticket in the post today, same fucking camera that I got done with.



No more speed awareness courses this time, that's point this time.
so much for the speed awareness course a few weeks ago


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2017)

hash tag said:


> No more speed awareness courses this time, that's point this time.
> so much for the speed awareness course a few weeks ago



Thing is 3 weeks ago I got flashed on the newly re-opened bit of the M3 near Camberley doing 88, told her about it and was looking out for the dreaded envelope, it arrived yesterday and she came to my office and presented it to me with a smug grin on her face, "They took their time, but they got you..."

"Hold on, Chertsey, last Friday, 7pm? I was still at work then..."

Wiped the fucking grin of her mug.


----------



## Looby (Sep 14, 2017)

Why keep doing it? I don't get it, it's fucking idiotic and selfish. Take away the potential risk to others, what if you both lost your licenses?


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## hash tag (Sep 14, 2017)

Audi drivers should be, think they are exempt from the law. It wouldn't happen in a micra.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2017)

Looby said:


> Why keep doing it? I don't get it, it's fucking idiotic and selfish. Take away the potential risk to others, what if you both lost your licenses?



Both done for 36 in the 30, this is the road:

 

35 and you wouldn't get done. 

So "idiotic and selfish" is a tad hysterical.

I have three points, before these my licence was clean for over 13 years. These are her first points in 24 years. So we're gonna have to go some to lose our licences. 

Yeah we both should have been going 1 mile an hour slower, but we weren't.


----------



## Looby (Sep 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Both done for 36 in the 30, this is the road:
> 
> View attachment 115574
> 
> ...


You should have been going 6 mph slower actually!
I think it's more annoying because you seem to find it funny. You might not have been caught that often but they're not the only times you both speed I'm guessing. You were expecting another ticket for doing 88 weren't you? 

Speeding is idiotic and selfish.


----------



## Looby (Sep 14, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Audi drivers should be, think they are exempt from the law. It wouldn't happen in a micra.


I know this is a standing joke but with one exception, everyone I personally know with an Audi is a bit of a cunt. [emoji1]


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2017)

Looby said:


> You should have been going 6 mph slower actually!
> I think it's more annoying because you seem to find it funny. You might not have been caught that often but they're not the only times you both speed I'm guessing. You were expecting another ticket for doing 88 weren't you?
> 
> Speeding is idiotic and selfish.



88 on a clear motorway in dry conditions is not idiotic or selfish at all.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 88 on a clear motorway in dry conditions is not idiotic or selfish at all.


It's ok to break the rules as long as you think its safe...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2017)

sleaterkinney said:


> It's ok to break the rules as long as you think its safe...



Exactly.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2017)

Looby said:


> You should have been going 6 mph slower actually!



And the chief constable of every police force in England and Wales disagrees with you on this statement.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 88 on a clear motorway in dry conditions is not idiotic or selfish at all.



But, still illegal, until or if limits are increased at some point. 

Almost 50 years of driving, I've never picked-up any points. 

*polishes halo*


----------



## 2hats (Sep 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah we both should have been going *6* mile*s* an hour slower, but we weren't.


FTFY.


Looby said:


> I know this is a standing joke but with one exception, everyone I personally know with an Audi is a bit of a cunt. [emoji1]


No, cock. Audi make that quite clear.


----------



## Looby (Sep 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> And the chief constable of every police force in England and Wales disagrees with you on this statement.


So the speed limit on that road is 35 then?


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 14, 2017)

Looby said:


> I know this is a standing joke but with one exception, everyone I personally know with an Audi is a bit of a cunt. [emoji1]


I hope you mean me, Looby 

Dorset solidarity ftw


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2017)

Looby said:


> So the speed limit on that road is 35 then?



No, it was 40, then they installed a camera and reduced it to 30, for which the National Police Chiefs Council agrees that 35 is acceptable.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> And the chief constable of every police force in England and Wales disagrees with you on this statement.


Basically they don't have the manpower to arrest every motorist breaking the law.


----------



## Looby (Sep 14, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> I hope you mean me, Looby
> 
> Dorset solidarity ftw








I was talking about my mate Mark (because I haven't met you yet) but I'm sure you're only a little bit cunty. [emoji106][emoji6]


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## hash tag (Sep 14, 2017)

If I understand recent posts correctly, it is also speed camera's that have got it in for Audi's/their drivers?


----------



## 2hats (Sep 14, 2017)

hash tag said:


> If I understand recent posts correctly, it is also speed camera's that have got it in for Audi's/their drivers?


All new Audi’s are RFID tagged to trigger new digital speed cameras when they pass irrespective of speed. Saves time.


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## twentythreedom (Sep 14, 2017)

I obey speed limits by careful use of cruise control. But that's because I've got 9 points, otherwise I'd be driving like Mr and Mrs Strasse do.

Eta actually it's 6 not 9


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## hash tag (Sep 14, 2017)

Stupid question ( I have never bothered with cruise control), does it adjust for going up and down hills?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2017)

Yes.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 14, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Stupid question ( I have never bothered with cruise control), does it adjust for going up and down hills?


It keeps to the chosen speed regardless of gradient, so yes.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2017)

Once managed 96 miles on cruise control without touching any pedals, which gave me a small thrill at the time.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 14, 2017)

hash tag said:


> If I understand recent posts correctly, it is also speed camera's that have got it in for Audi's/their drivers?



Even my toaster has it in for Audi drivers.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Once managed 96 miles on cruise control without touching any pedals, which gave me a small thrill at the time.


It's useful when you need two hands free for skinning up / racking up lines on the motorway cos you can steer with your right knee


----------



## hash tag (Sep 14, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Once managed 96 miles on cruise control without touching any pedals, which gave me a small thrill at the time.



Did you get a nice letter through the post - your driving fine?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Did you get a nice letter through the post - your driving, fine?



You missed a comma.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 14, 2017)

Sounds like you missed points for that one!


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## hash tag (Sep 16, 2017)

There is no mention about the dangereous manouvre by the police 
Driver gives motorist the finger after cutting him up - and it cost him big time


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 16, 2017)

hash tag said:


> There is no mention about the dangereous manouvre by the police
> Driver gives motorist the finger after cutting him up - and it cost him big time



What dangerous manoeuvre by the police?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> What dangerous manoeuvre by the police?



I read it as the VW driver doing the dangerous manoeuvre, then finishing off by flipping the bird at the unmarked plod.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 16, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I read it as the VW driver doing the dangerous manoeuvre, then finishing off by flipping the bird at the unmarked plod.



You & me both, so I am confused by hash tag's comment.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 16, 2017)

Looby said:


> You should have been going 6 mph slower actually!
> I think it's more annoying because you seem to find it funny. You might not have been caught that often but they're not the only times you both speed I'm guessing. You were expecting another ticket for doing 88 weren't you?
> 
> Speeding is idiotic and selfish.


While I'm not excusing speeding, I do think there is a, frankly, ludicrous emphasis being placed on speed to the exclusion of pretty much all else. And a lot of it is about economics, not safety.

Speeding is easy to enforce - we now have machines that can do it automatically, at a fraction of the cost of training, equipping, and paying police officers to patrol the roads. So that's what we do. It does mean that all kinds of other, equally dangerous, driving faults - aggressive driving, tailgating, moving without signalling, hesitancy, careless driving, even driving under the influence, are far less likely to be detected than they were.

Which is fine, so far as it goes. But it grieves me to see people buying totally into the propaganda that [because it's easier to measure] speeding is the _sine qua non_ of driver misbehaviour. It's not. It's one facet, and not necessarily the worst one, of a whole range of misbehaviours, and falling into the trap of assuming it's the worst one is to encourage drivers in the idea that, so long as they're not speeding, pretty much anything goes.

I'm not suggesting we shouldn't enforce speed limits: human nature being what it is, if people don't think they'll get caught, they'll commit the offence. But that's exactly what's happening with other offences - people really do believe that, so long as they stay within the speed limit, then (within some limits) pretty much anything goes. Because they know they're very unlikely to get caught. Which means there's a lot of very complacent drivers going around out there, feeling safe in the knowledge that, just because they're doing 29 in a 30, they don't really have to devote that much care to other aspects of their driving.


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## hash tag (Sep 16, 2017)

My initial read was the police comitteted a dangerous manoeuvre and the driver flipped a finger


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## Looby (Sep 16, 2017)

existentialist said:


> While I'm not excusing speeding, I do think there is a, frankly, ludicrous emphasis being placed on speed to the exclusion of pretty much all else. And a lot of it is about economics, not safety.
> 
> Speeding is easy to enforce - we now have machines that can do it automatically, at a fraction of the cost of training, equipping, and paying police officers to patrol the roads. So that's what we do. It does mean that all kinds of other, equally dangerous, driving faults - aggressive driving, tailgating, moving without signalling, hesitancy, careless driving, even driving under the influence, are far less likely to be detected than they were.
> 
> ...



I quite agree. Tailgaters and aggressive driving in particular really pisses me off and I see it all the time. Quite often when cunts are pissed off that others are doing the speed limit and not faster. It does feel like there's a massive amount of dickheads on the road. 
I know there's more to road safety than speed, I think I'm a pretty safe driver but don't we all!


----------



## existentialist (Sep 16, 2017)

Looby said:


> Quite often when cunts are pissed off that others are doing the speed limit and not faster. It does feel like there's a massive amount of dickheads on the road.


ICWYDT


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## weltweit (Sep 16, 2017)

One of the most dangerous and easy mistakes to get into while driving is lack of concentration. How many of us will admit to arriving at a frequently used destination without really recognising a large part of the journey? (driving on mental autopilot)

And it is easy to fall into bad habits, particularly with the myriad of potential distractions there are in today's cars.


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## weltweit (Sep 16, 2017)

When I find my concentration slipping I try commenting mentally on the circumstances as I progress, so I go - 30 limit, car on right, vehicles approaching, junction car waiting - that sort of thing. It soon engages me again.


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 17, 2017)

I'm doing an advanced driving course just now and that's something the guide recommends doing, to improve awareness. I do it at least a bit now on most journeys (when I'm alone  )


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## BigTom (Sep 17, 2017)

I started doing that when i started cycling and it crossed over into driving, sort of switches off on motorways still


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## twentythreedom (Sep 17, 2017)

I drive loads and regularly see people who have their phone stuck right in front of them on the windscreen, presumably to use as a sat nav, being tempted to use Facebook etc or watch telly.

Shouldn't be allowed to stick it on the screen like that


----------



## BigTom (Sep 17, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> I drive loads and regularly see people who have their phone stuck right in front of them on the windscreen, presumably to use as a sat nav, being tempted to use Facebook etc or watch telly.
> 
> Shouldn't be allowed to stick it on the screen like that



You're not, i infrequently but regularly see tweets from West mids traffic police who have pulled someone over, obstruction of drivers view, or something like that. Maybe the same law that covers windscreen chips and such like


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## twentythreedom (Sep 17, 2017)

BigTom said:


> You're not, i infrequently but regularly see tweets from West mids traffic police who have pulled someone over, obstruction of drivers view, or something like that. Maybe the same law that covers windscreen chips and such like


Yeah, what I meant really is that drivers shouldn't be getting away with it - they should be made aware of the law and it should be enforced heavily. Fucking dumb having a big screen obscuring your view like that. And drivers reaching forward to the touch screen 

Of course, my Audi, being awesomely cool, has a screen which is below the windscreen, controlled by a jog wheel and / or voice control, running Android Auto which limits apps to phone, messages, music and maps


----------



## Looby (Sep 17, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> Yeah, what I meant really is that drivers shouldn't be getting away with it - they should be made aware of the law and it should be enforced heavily. Fucking dumb having a big screen obscuring your view like that. And drivers reaching forward to the touch screen
> 
> Of course, my Audi, being awesomely cool, has a screen which is below the windscreen, controlled by a jog wheel and / or voice control, running Android Auto which limits apps to phone, messages, music and maps


My workmate has apple CarPlay. The first thing I do when I get in his car is send him a really offensive text to be read out. [emoji4]

I thought you were allowed stuff on your windscreen as long as it's not causing a distraction. My sat nav is on my windscreen because it doesn't stick on my dashboard.


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## not-bono-ever (Sep 17, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Once managed 96 miles on cruise control without touching any pedals, which gave me a small thrill at the time.


That London Bridge to purley section is especially tricky


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## mauvais (Sep 17, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> I'm doing an advanced driving course just now and that's something the guide recommends doing, to improve awareness. I do it at least a bit now on most journeys (when I'm alone  )


What course are you doing?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 17, 2017)

Looby said:


> I thought you were allowed stuff on your windscreen as long as it's not causing a distraction. My sat nav is on my windscreen because it doesn't stick on my dashboard.



You are, so long as it is not in the area swept by the wipers.


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## hash tag (Sep 17, 2017)

The commentary was not something I had to do as part of my IAM advanced assesment, but I gave it a go; it is much more difficult than I realised...ie not only did I have
to note a pedestrian crossing light was coming up, but what type of crossing; Puffin, Pelican Etc. It was a great challenge.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 17, 2017)

Looby said:


> I thought you were allowed stuff on your windscreen as long as it's not causing a distraction. My sat nav is on my windscreen because it doesn't stick on my dashboard.





Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You are, so long as it is not in the area swept by the wipers.



If it is not causing a distraction, why bother having it there? I thought it had to be out of line of site as with cracks and chips in the windscreen.
Have seen several cars recently, where the drivers smart phone was attached to the middle of the windscreen


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## mojo pixy (Sep 17, 2017)

mauvais said:


> What course are you doing?



It's the IAM course. I haven't done any of the observed drives yet but I've got my head stuck in the book every day...


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## hash tag (Sep 17, 2017)

The observed drives were fine, though my observer target my weak spots ie narrow country lanes.
I remember my assesment. The assessor clearly said if you exceed the speed limit, I will give you a warning; go over the speed limit three times and I will fail you.
We started out from Chiswick and headed straight down the M4. By counting some markers at the side of the motorway, he reckoned I was speeding. When he 
checked my speedo, he saw I was not. 
BTW, they were very good about the observed drives as I work odd hours I could not make the regular Saturday/Sunday observed drives and they found a volunteer observer who worked round this for me


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## mauvais (Sep 17, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> It's the IAM course. I haven't done any of the observed drives yet but I've got my head stuck in the book every day...


Nice one. I did it a few years ago - it was hard work & a pretty frustrating experience at times, but paid off in the end - the final drive was ace, I passed and got their 'F1RST' award or whatever it was. Shout if you want to chat about it, plus a few others on here have done it.


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## weltweit (Sep 17, 2017)

Do you get cheaper insurance if you have done it?


----------



## hash tag (Sep 17, 2017)

Supposedly. I find it's always best to shop around as only some companies offer a cheaper rate for this, which can normally be beaten.


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## mauvais (Sep 17, 2017)

weltweit said:


> Do you get cheaper insurance if you have done it?


IME, no, but the IAM-linked insurer will usually match or very slightly beat the cheapest quote you can find elsewhere. And since the cheapest quote is usually a pretty basic offering, whilst theirs is OK, you end up slightly better off.


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## mauvais (Sep 17, 2017)

(double post)


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## hash tag (Sep 18, 2017)

It's what one would expect...

'Idiot' driver shows off doing donuts in Tesco car park but it doesn't end well


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 18, 2017)

hash tag said:


> It's what one would expect...
> 
> 'Idiot' driver shows off doing donuts in Tesco car park but it doesn't end well



Failsworth


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## cupid_stunt (Sep 18, 2017)

hash tag said:


> It's what one would expect...
> 
> 'Idiot' driver shows off doing donuts in Tesco car park but it doesn't end well



Audi driver, what a surprise.


----------



## T & P (Sep 18, 2017)

Motorcyclist shows off amazing skills, gets 8 months inside for his efforts...

Biker jailed for M6 wheelies


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 18, 2017)

T & P said:


> Motorcyclist shows off amazing skills, gets 8 months inside for his efforts...
> 
> Biker jailed for M6 wheelies



What a complete twat, although jail seems a bit OTT when no one was harmed, should have been a suspended sentence IMO.


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## hash tag (Sep 18, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Failsworth





cupid_stunt said:


> Audi driver, what a surprise.



Not to mention Tesco's.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 18, 2017)

T & P said:


> Motorcyclist shows off amazing skills, gets 8 months inside for his efforts...
> 
> Biker jailed for M6 wheelies


Not very impressive skills actually.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 18, 2017)

Can I just say I really hate it when you're in an outside lane and the car on the inside starts indicating to come out even though they can't because you're right next to them with nowhere to go.  It seems to be quite a common thing to do now, I thought mirror then signal was day one stuff.

I know why people do it but it always shits me up because I think I must be in their blind spot and I'm about to be crashed into at speed.  Lazy, pushy, crap driving.


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## weltweit (Sep 18, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Can I just say I really hate it when you're in an outside lane and the car on the inside starts indicating to come out even though they can't because you're right next to them with nowhere to go.  It seems to be quite a common thing to do now, I thought mirror then signal was day one stuff.
> 
> I know why people do it but it always shits me up because I think I must be in their blind spot and I'm about to be crashed into at speed.  Lazy, pushy, crap driving.


Your post causes me to want to ask questions about the circumstances by which you found yourself in someone's blind spot? because that is a dangerous place to be.


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## BigTom (Sep 18, 2017)

weltweit said:


> Your post causes me to want to ask questions about the circumstances by which you found yourself in someone's blind spot? because that is a dangerous place to be.



Every time you overtake a vehicle on a motorway or dual carriageway.


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## weltweit (Sep 18, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Every time you overtake a vehicle on a motorway or dual carriageway.


Where you don't stay in the other vehicle's blind spot for moment longer than necessary.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 18, 2017)

weltweit said:


> Where you don't stay in the other vehicle's blind spot for moment longer than necessary.



and in that moment (or what feels like it could be), they indicate. I'm surprised you haven't experienced that often enough to know what Teaboy is talking about.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 18, 2017)

BigTom said:


> and in that moment (or what feels like it could be), they indicate. I'm surprised you haven't experienced that often enough to know what Teaboy is talking about.


I do sometimes experience it.

But I was also in the other situation where a queue of cars had overtaken me, I thought they had all gone past so not only checked my mirrors but also turned my head to see a lagging car stuck in my blind spot not really going much faster than I was. They weren't visible in my mirrors, I only saw them because I turned my head and looked out my side window.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 19, 2017)

weltweit said:


> Your post causes me to want to ask questions about the circumstances by which you found yourself in someone's blind spot? because that is a dangerous place to be.



What BigTom said.

Also though in the urban environment it is not unusual to have 2 or 3 lanes on roads where the speed limit may be 30 or 40.  You might find yourself in the outside lane but just keeping up with the flow of traffic.  You're in their blind spot because there is literally nowhere for you to go or by going any faster you would exceed the speed limit.

Anyway it's their fucking job to check their blind spot if they want to change lanes.  In the vast majority of times they know you are there but want to move into your lane after you have passed. I get that but by indicating before you have passed they imply that they are coming out that moment. Its just plain inconsiderate and bad driving.


----------



## Chemical needs (Sep 19, 2017)

Indication should not occur the moment they change lanes but a moment or three prior so I'd try not to worry and just get out of the blind spot as soon as you can. I know what you mean though.


----------



## Sapphireblue (Sep 19, 2017)

people indicate before changing lanes? on my journey to and from work they mostly just move over and expect you to get out of the way magically.

although the other day i had someone on the left indicate and then beep at me for being in their way. they genuinely expected me (alongside / slightly ahead of them as overtaking) to slow down and let them out in front of me because they didn't want to slow down themselves and apparently hadn't seen the parked cars coming up in the left hand lane even though it was clear conditions and they're always on that bit of road.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 19, 2017)

Sapphireblue said:


> although the other day i had someone on the left indicate and then beep at me for being in their way. they genuinely expected me (alongside / slightly ahead of them as overtaking) to slow down and let them out in front of me because they didn't want to slow down themselves and apparently hadn't seen the parked cars coming up in the left hand lane even though it was clear conditions and they're always on that bit of road.


You should have just let them through. That kind of shit really used to get up my nose and I'd close the gap to punish the dickhead for, a) being in the wrong lane, and b) expecting me to make way for his fuck up. Nowadays I smile and let them in and life's a lot less stressful. I see it as being within my power to forgive, and to help people significantly less able and intelligent than me.


----------



## Sapphireblue (Sep 19, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> You should have just let them through. That kind of shit really used to get up my nose and I'd close the gap to punish the dickhead for, a) being in the wrong lane, and b) expecting me to make way for his fuck up. Nowadays I smile and let them in and life's a lot less stressful. I see it as being within my power to forgive, and to help out people significantly less able and intelligent than me.



at the time i was literally alongside and the first parked car in his lane was imminent, there was no gap for them, i would have had to practically do an emergency stop for there to have been room to let them out. i frequently have to let in the non-indicators unless i want them to actually drive into me, so it's not a point of principle or anything.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 19, 2017)

Chemical needs said:


> Indication should not occur the moment they change lanes but a moment or three prior so I'd try not to worry and just get out of the blind spot as soon as you can. I know what you mean though.



Yeah indicating and moving at the same time is basically the same as not indicating. Checking my blind spot is always the last thing I do before moving, but if I've indicated in plenty of time then there probably won't be anyone there.


----------



## Chemical needs (Sep 20, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah indicating and moving at the same time is basically the same as not indicating. Checking my blind spot is always the last thing I do before moving, but if I've indicated in plenty of time then there probably won't be anyone there.



Yeah the best ones are when they start manoeuvring and then indicate


----------



## mauvais (Sep 20, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Can I just say I really hate it when you're in an outside lane and the car on the inside starts indicating to come out even though they can't because you're right next to them with nowhere to go.  It seems to be quite a common thing to do now, I thought mirror then signal was day one stuff.
> 
> I know why people do it but it always shits me up because I think I must be in their blind spot and I'm about to be crashed into at speed.  Lazy, pushy, crap driving.


A few thoughts:

- some people apparently do this because they view their planned manoeuvre as a right, rather than something they need to seek invitation/accommodation/whatever for

- some people apparently do this because they have no situational awareness beyond the fact that they can't currently go, i.e. they have no ability to plan for how they'll find a good point to fit into traffic so just dumbly wait hoping for someone to help em out

- some people (me sometimes) do this because there is no good reason for the other vehicle to be sat there in the way or because they could have seen it coming - e.g. very slowly overtaking me alongside as I rapidly close on something that I'll need to overtake


----------



## hash tag (Sep 20, 2017)

This was Battersea Park Road, yesterday evening at peak of rush hour. I don't understand how this can happen when there is so much traffic around in a built up area.
I will not make judgments about the balloons being in the car.


Woman taken to hospital after car flips in Battersea crash


----------



## T & P (Sep 20, 2017)

That boot door is pretty strong to keep the car lifted off the ground without closing itself...


----------



## mauvais (Sep 21, 2017)

The weight distribution is all towards the front - heavy engine. If you removed the rear hatch it would sit roughly as it was there.

It's not as hard as you might think to flip a car. You just need something to serve as a ramp, like mounting another car via its bonnet.


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 26, 2017)

What an astonishing bellend. There's some fairly cunty parking at my daughter's school - and lots of complaints on social media that there isn't a parents' car park at an inner city primary (!) but not, thankfully, at this level.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 26, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> What an astonishing bellend. There's some fairly cunty parking at my daughter's school - and lots of complaints on social media that there isn't a parents' car park at an inner city primary (!) but not, thankfully, at this level.



TBF, and not to excuse the driver in any way, but sitting on the bonnet wasn't ever going to de-escalate the situation.

He deserved the sentence, but...well, is that how the teacher deals with conflict in his classroom?


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 26, 2017)

existentialist said:


> TBF, and not to excuse the driver in any way, but sitting on the bonnet wasn't ever going to de-escalate the situation.
> 
> He deserved the sentence, but...well, is that how the teacher deals with conflict in his classroom?



Probably not, I doubt most of the kids are such intransigent wankers.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 26, 2017)

That's mad but yes sitting on his bonnet was never going to win any friends.

I don't see why the driver was that bothered to get into the car park.  I've lived near several schools in my time and I've come to the conclusion that no road rules apply if you are on the school run.  Chap should have just stuck it on the double yellows or across someone's driveway like everyone else does.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 26, 2017)

He didn't sit on the bonnet, the car's bumper nudged the back of his legs which made him fall onto it.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> He didn't sit on the bonnet, the car's bumper nudged the back of his legs which made him fall onto it.



On second viewing you are right there is a very gentle nudge there, although at that point I think I would have been stepping away rather then staying there. He could have taken a step away rather than rest on the bonnet.  Anyway, the driver is a mad fucker who can't even manage to take his kid to school without getting banged up.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 26, 2017)

fuck him. teachers get a hard enough time without having to deal with shitcakes like this.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 26, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> He didn't sit on the bonnet, the car's bumper nudged the back of his legs which made him fall onto it.



I had to slow it down, to see it, but you are right. 

The cunt driver had no MOT or insurance, so clearly didn't give a flying fuck, glad he got sent down.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2017)

SpookyFrank i thought you said you brought up pavement driving and pavement parking in this thread, but can't find anything on that from you


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2017)

.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 26, 2017)

Been covered on the local BBC News FB page, and someone posted a detailed description of what happened.



> A letter had been sent to all the parents not to use the staff car park as it was putting the pupils at risk when they were coming out of school. The teacher was under instruction from the head to stand at the entrance to remind parents not to come in. He turned his back and the the bumper of the car hit the back of his legs and caused him to sit, the driver then accelerates and throws him off the bonnet. He was knocked to the ground and lay dazed for for some time and had a nasty head wound which required gluing. It was not the first time that the driver had driven past the teacher. His defence barrister described him as being 'immature' and having behaved 'outrageously'. The driver admitted assault, actual bodily harm, dangerous driving, driving without insurance and having no MOT, he was jailed for ten months,banned from driving for two years and five months and ordered to pay the victim £140 victim surcharge. The judge told him he needed to examine himself and ask why you needed to behave in that way.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 27, 2017)

Knock over a cyclist and leave him by the side of the road, six month ban only.

Driver, 72, who knocked cyclist off bike in Wymondham road and abandoned him is banned from driving for six months


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 27, 2017)

sleaterkinney said:


> Knock over a cyclist and leave him by the side of the road, six month ban only.
> 
> Driver, 72, who knocked cyclist off bike in Wymondham road and abandoned him is banned from driving for six months


He should at least have to sit his test again when he gets off the ban.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 27, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> He should at least have to sit his test again when he gets off the ban.


I think that some mandatory training should be the default for anyone who gets a ban. Opportunity to improve your skills, etc.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 27, 2017)

How about a £500 fine and 1 year ban for:



> Griffiths drove along the pavement at 30mph and didn’t stop until 65 metres after he hit Georgia [a 15 year old girl].
> 
> “He didn’t phone emergency services. Georgia bounced onto his windscreen and smashed all her face.
> 
> ...



White van man got £500 fine after catapulting this schoolgirl through a tree

(she didn't die, induced coma and in hospital for 3 months).


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 27, 2017)

BigTom said:


> How about a £500 fine and 1 year ban for:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Shockingly low sentences for this kind of thing. 

Driving without due care and attention is such a catch-all charge and really should not be used when that lack of attention leads to such catastrophic injuries.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 27, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> What an astonishing bellend. There's some fairly cunty parking at my daughter's school - and lots of complaints on social media that there isn't a parents' car park at an inner city primary (!) but not, thankfully, at this level.



He sits on the motor there. The mistake the driver made was not reversing instead.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 27, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> He sits on the motor there. The mistake the driver made was not reversing instead.



watch carefully, the driver moves forward when the teacher stands sideways/with his back towards the car and nudges the teacher who sits on the bonnet as a result.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 27, 2017)

BigTom said:


> watch carefully, the driver moves forward when the teacher stands sideways/with his back towards the car and nudges the teacher who sits on the bonnet as a result.


That's what it says in the article but I've just been rocking and rolling it and the cars doesn't seem to move until after he sits down.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 27, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> That's what it says in the article but I've just been rocking and rolling it and the cars doesn't seem to move until after he sits down.



I'll take it frame by frame in a video editor later  It's kind of irrelevant anyway, and not directed at you, but it's been fucking depressing seeing the social media comments blaming the teacher (shouldn't be there, should be sacked, all his fault for sitting on the bonnet, crazy nonsense).


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 27, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> That's what it says in the article but I've just been rocking and rolling it and the cars doesn't seem to move until after he sits down.



I thought the same, but concluded that he leans against the car with the back of his legs, rather than sits down. 

The driver was also described as a bully (no, OU has not become a judge) and all round 'orrible cunt.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 27, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The driver was also described as a bully (no, OU has not become a judge) and all round 'orrible cunt.


Well I think we can take that as a given. You have to have a whole fucking bunch of screws loose to do that, but I'd be cross if someone sat on the bonnet of my car too.


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 27, 2017)

I'd be cross if someone sat on my boot. But I also wouldn't insist on driving my non MOTed car into a staff car park, then knock the teacher who was preventing me from doing so off balance causing him to sit.

It's all on the driver here.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 27, 2017)

BigTom said:


> How about a £500 fine and 1 year ban for:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's insane.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 27, 2017)

If you think that's insane, try wrapping your noggin around this one from Feb last year
Lorry driver cleared of couple's deaths

lorry driver. Blind in one eye, losing eyesight in the other. Eyesight so bad that he could not do community service. But he was and is allowed to drive.
Got a suspended sentence and 19 month driving ban. He'll be back on the roads in a month or so.
Ran over 2 OAPs who were using a pedestrian crossing.
CLEARED of causing death by dangerous driving. Pled guilty to causing death by careless driving.


----------



## Winot (Sep 27, 2017)

Yeah but those cyclists jumping red lights eh


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 27, 2017)

BigTom said:


> If you think that's insane, try wrapping your noggin around this one from Feb last year
> Lorry driver cleared of couple's deaths
> 
> lorry driver. Blind in one eye, losing eyesight in the other. Eyesight so bad that he could not do community service. But he was and is allowed to drive.
> ...



I've always thought that was an odd distinction in law, the idea you can be careless but not dangerous.



Winot said:


> Yeah but those cyclists jumping red lights eh



This is the driving standards thread.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 27, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> I've always thought that was an odd distinction in law, the idea you can be careless but not dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the driving standards thread.



Yeah, the wording of the laws differs, from memory careless is "driving that falls below the expected standard" whilst dangerous is "driving that falls far below the expected standard". The idea that a man with sight in one eye (which was also failing) was being careless when he decided to drive, rather than dangerous is linguistically insane. Legally though that's not the thing in question. From what's said in the article I still have no idea how the jury acquitted him. I think that if he was stopped by the police he'd fail the roadside eyesight test and in the west midlands at least they would revoke the licence immediately. I can only assume the driver never told his employer or the dvla or somehow got an eye test that said he was ok to drive, it seems impossible if he was unfit to do community service that he could pass an eyesight test to drive.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 27, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Yeah, the wording of the laws differs, from memory careless is "driving that falls below the expected standard" whilst dangerous is "driving that falls far below the expected standard". The idea that a man with sight in one eye (which was also failing) was being careless when he decided to drive, rather than dangerous is linguistically insane. Legally though that's not the thing in question. From what's said in the article I still have no idea how the jury acquitted him. I think that if he was stopped by the police he'd fail the roadside eyesight test and in the west midlands at least they would revoke the licence immediately. I can only assume the driver never told his employer or the dvla or somehow got an eye test that said he was ok to drive, it seems impossible if he was unfit to do community service that he could pass an eyesight test to drive.


Where are you getting that his eyesight in the working eye was failing?


----------



## BigTom (Sep 27, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> That's what it says in the article but I've just been rocking and rolling it and the cars doesn't seem to move until after he sits down.



Driver 100% moves first.
In this video there are 10 frames per second so the timing here, the first bit is seconds into the video, last bit is frames which is 1/10th of a second, it's not milliseconds.
Driver move forward twice, first at 31:03 - 31:07 secondly at 32:07-33:00. The teacher starts to sit on the bonnet at 33:07, ~7/10ths of a second after the 2nd move forward.

I've exported these frames from After Effects using a mixing mode called "difference". Difference is a common photoshop layering method - what it does is if the top layer is black, it has no effect and you just see the bottom layer, if it's white then the bottom layer is inverted. In between black and white, or coloured and you get a partially inverted or coloured image. It's what designers use when they are making things like this:





With video, by offsetting a second layer of the same video by one frame and using the difference mixing mode, what you get is an output which only shows where the image has changed. If there is no difference, the image is black. So by doing this I can find movement. It's pretty faint tbh but it is clear. You can see the effect clearly in the cars behind which move alot. This driver has nudged forward so it's only faint but hopefully you can see it.
I tried uploading them all to imgur but it only accepted three of them and it's renamed them so I can't be 100% sure which frame is which but I think the top one is from 31:02, before the driver moved so you can see what it's like. The second one is during one of the movements - you can faintly see the outline of the front of the car. I think the last one if from when he starts to sit down.

edit: forgot the imgur link  

edit 2: there's 6 images, not 3 as it showed me in the preview

I could post the export here (AE names them automatically with the frame numbers) but it'd be quite a few images and a fair few mb, let me know if you would like me to.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 27, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Where are you getting that his eyesight in the working eye was failing?



different article, sorry, this one didn't say what his ban was so I posted the BBC article:
Family's shock as half-blind lorry driver who killed couple walks free



> The lorry driver, who is losing his eyesight in his other eye, failed to notice the pensioners, who “froze” in the road as his truck approached.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 27, 2017)

right the imgur - click through for better pictures, they are still not great. The last image is him sitting down, the second is the driver moving forward the second time (you can see the timestamp for both is 48s, the timestamp for the others is 47s). Image 5 is the clearest of the driver moving forward, this is from the first movement (you can see the timestamp is 47s).


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 27, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Driver 100% moves first.
> In this video there are 10 frames per second so the timing here, the first bit is seconds into the video, last bit is frames which is 1/10th of a second, it's not milliseconds.
> Driver move forward twice, first at 31:03 - 31:07 secondly at 32:07-33:00. The teacher starts to sit on the bonnet at 33:07, ~7/10ths of a second after the 2nd move forward.
> 
> ...



Good work.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 11, 2017)

Not good Snapchat video captures final moments of men's lives seconds before fatal crash


----------



## BigTom (Oct 11, 2017)

Have a video of some careless driving



How careless of me to deliberately run that cyclist into a wall. Fucking CPS, how does this get charged as "careless" driving not "dangerous". 
6 month ban for the driver, should be a lot longer than that.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 11, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Not good Snapchat video captures final moments of men's lives seconds before fatal crash



Really, really, fucks me off when my friends post pictures/videos of themselves dicking about to music while driving. Put the phone down, and just fucking drive, and we're talking about people well into their 30s.

What needs to happen to make them realise what they are doing is putting not only their life but other people's at risk.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 11, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Have a video of some careless driving
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's madness, total madness.  We've had this conversation before but the distinction between 'Careless Driving' and 'Dangerous Driving' is a pretty dumb one because it's not possible to be careless without being dangerous.  Anyway when you deliberately use your car as a weapon it is something else altogether.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 11, 2017)

Speeding on motorbike, killing someone - banned from driving for eight months and suspended jail term. Careless driving. 

Killer biker gets suspended jail term


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2017)

Dashcam drink-driver sped at 132mph

Fuck sakes.

Third drink driving conviction, that should be a few years prison by itself, but this fucker crashed having intimidated others whilst hurtling along at 132mph, crashing and driving off.

Gets 12 months inside.

Nowhere near good enough.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 21, 2017)

Look at these cunts:

Parking so bad it 'looks like a crash'


----------



## BigTom (Oct 21, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Look at these cunts:
> 
> Parking so bad it 'looks like a crash'


The good news here is that this is a story only because West Midlands police have actually started to fine people for obstructing the pavement. Hopefully a few tickets will improve matters.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 21, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Look at these cunts:
> 
> Parking so bad it 'looks like a crash'




That has to be a set up for publicity, surely no one parks across the pavement like that???


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 21, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Look at these cunts:
> 
> Parking so bad it 'looks like a crash'



Cultural differences news...that’s pretty common parking in Barcelona. 

(Not condoning it in the slightest, it’s just what it reminded me of).


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 21, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That has to be a set up for publicity, surely no one parks across the pavement like that???



I've seen it in Leeds quite a bit, cars parked actually in the middle of the brand new 'super cyclehighway' in some cases. Enforcement a bit weak as can be expected with all the cutbacks.


----------



## The Boy (Oct 21, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That has to be a set up for publicity, surely no one parks across the pavement like that???



Doesn't look quite so bad cos there's no shops/bus stops, but there's a stretch of pavement near me that is basically impassable on a daily basis for anyone with a wheelchair, buggy or the sort of mobility impairment that might cause difficulty with cobbles.  

Pavement on other side of the road has kerbs about 20cm high and no drops. So it's a 20m or so detour on cobbles, or cross the road only to cross back again, or take your chances in the road.


----------



## The Boy (Oct 21, 2017)

Or this one from the other day


----------



## BigTom (Oct 21, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That has to be a set up for publicity, surely no one parks across the pavement like that???



Welcome to Birmingham...

Shocking new pictures reveal more terrible parking in Brum

Police combat more shocking parking around Birmingham

Can you believe how badly these cars are parked?

I can't find the story about the minicab driver in sparkbrook who parked their car across the pavement like a few of these pictures, had a £110 fine for obstruction, did again, police, issued a second fine and told him they'd tow his car if he parked like that again. He parked like that again. They towed his car. Not sure how much that cost him, or if he continued to park like that and get fined/towed.

Mela visitors accused of 'dangerous and disgraceful' parking
this one was "parking" at an event in the park rather than your run of the mill pavement parking on residential streets

Lots of complaints about this has led to police taking action, and most of these Birmingham Mail stories are from the police initially. Our PCC did a survey of issues you felt most affecting the community and specified maybe a dozen things, including drug use, buglaries and things like that, pavement parking was one of the preset options of those. It's terrible round here.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 21, 2017)

Wow! One thing in which London doesn’t top the cunt league. Guess cos in town you get ticketed in about 5 seconds flat just for parking on a yellow out of hours, so you don’t see shit like what you have in Brum and so on.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Oct 21, 2017)

Parking on a pavement is an offense in Itself in London; not anywhere else in the country. Just imagine a blind person trying to negotiate that


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 22, 2017)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Parking on a pavement is an offense in Itself in London; not anywhere else in the country. Just imagine a blind person trying to negotiate that



Not everywhere, I know a residential street in Raynes Park where they have a sign telling you how far you're allowed to park up on the pavement. It's quite a narrow pavement too.


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Wow! One thing in which London doesn’t top the cunt league. Guess cos in town you get ticketed in about 5 seconds flat just for parking on a yellow out of hours, so you don’t see shit like what you have in Brum and so on.



One of the things that I really noticed moving from London to Cardiff was the blatant disregard for double yellow lines, and the parking on corners, parking at bus stops, parking blocking people in, on pavements and more. Oh and the people who think that stopping and holding up traffic while you pop in a shop/pick your mate up/who knows what is entirely reasonable as long as you have your hazard lights on


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 22, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Not everywhere, I know a residential street in Raynes Park where they have a sign telling you how far you're allowed to park up on the pavement. It's quite a narrow pavement too.



Yeah, it is the default that you can’t park on pavements unless told otherwise, outside of London it’s the other way round.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 23, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> He didn't sit on the bonnet, the car's bumper nudged the back of his legs which made him fall onto it.


He sat on the bonnet of the car. You can see the front suspension drop a little as he sits on the bonnet.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Oct 23, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> What an astonishing bellend. There's some fairly cunty parking at my daughter's school - and lots of complaints on social media that there isn't a parents' car park at an inner city primary (!) but not, thankfully, at this level.





Yep. Watched it a lot now. When the teacher turns sideways...the driver nudges the car forward a few inches touching the teacher's legs. An assault in itself. The teacher then sits....and the driver just loses the plot and drives like a fucking lunatic into the yard....luckily the 2 kids on bikes are just out of his path.
Yep. .the driver is a complete and utter bellend, nutjob entitled prick.

Btw was the driver charged with assaulting the teacher? The instant the driver nudged his car forward to catch the teacher's legs, he basically assaulted him. The teacher ends up sitting on the bonnet... and did so in a way that says "well just cos you nudge me with your car ..dont think that I'm moving"....or he may have had to sit after being pushed by the car...but whatever...it was still an assault in the part of the driver..

Fuckin nut job of a driver...


----------



## mojo pixy (Oct 23, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> One of the things that I really noticed moving from London to Cardiff was the blatant disregard for double yellow lines, and the parking on corners, parking at bus stops, parking blocking people in, on pavements and more. Oh and the people who think that stopping and holding up traffic while you pop in a shop/pick your mate up/who knows what is entirely reasonable as long as you have your hazard lights on



Ditto Bristol. Driving and Parking Standards so low that the word _standards_ itself seems like an exaggeration. All the above plus ignoring lanes, lights, signs (including _disabled_ parking bay signs) and any other traffic that might want to move about in the same space. On the other hand if Bristol wasn't so lawless it wouldn't be the place it is so whatever.

My personal bugbear is people using wheely bins to save 'their' parking space outside their houses


----------



## A380 (Oct 24, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Thing is 3 weeks ago I got flashed on the newly re-opened bit of the M3 near Camberley doing 88, told her about it and was looking out for the dreaded envelope, it arrived yesterday and she came to my office and presented it to me with a smug grin on her face, "They took their time, but they got you..."
> 
> "Hold on, Chertsey, last Friday, 7pm? I was still at work then..."
> 
> Wiped the fucking grin of her mug.


How was the spare bed?


----------



## hash tag (Oct 24, 2017)

What a waste of engineering 'One-off' £1.5m supercar damaged in crash


----------



## Pac man (Oct 24, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Yep. Watched it a lot now. When the teacher turns sideways...the driver nudges the car forward a few inches touching the teacher's legs. An assault in itself. The teacher then sits....and the driver just loses the plot and drives like a fucking lunatic into the yard....luckily the 2 kids on bikes are just out of his path.
> Yep. .the driver is a complete and utter bellend, nutjob entitled prick.
> 
> Btw was the driver charged with assaulting the teacher? The instant the driver nudged his car forward to catch the teacher's legs, he basically assaulted him. The teacher ends up sitting on the bonnet... and did so in a way that says "well just cos you nudge me with your car ..dont think that I'm moving"....or he may have had to sit after being pushed by the car...but whatever...it was still an assault in the part of the driver..
> ...


Wtf was the teacher playing at anyway? he clearly didnt care that he was putting that driver in a dangerous position, look at all the other traffic that is forced to overtake the back end of the car which is clearly blocking the road, (see the car on the right forced to stop just in picture) what kind of idiot blocks a car at the entrance of a school, forcing other traffic to take evasive manouvers.. he could have and should have let the driver in to turn around. Its no justification what the driver did but the teacher is clearly a fucking idiot. Not easy to reverse either the angle he was at and with other traffic speeding past and kids around.
eta and the teacher had his back turned so couldnt see what was going on and clearly didnt care he was putting others at risk, as irresponsible as the driver and obviously why the driver did wat he did.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Oct 24, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Wtf was the teacher playing at anyway? he clearly didnt care that he was putting that driver in a dangerous position, look at all the other traffic that is forced to overtake the back end of the car which is clearly blocking the road, (see the car on the right forced to stop just in picture) what kind of idiot blocks a car at the entrance of a school, forcing other traffic to take evasive manouvers.. he could have and should have let the driver in to turn around. Its no justification what the driver did but the teacher is clearly a fucking idiot. Not easy to reverse either the angle he was at and with other traffic speeding past and kids around.



I suspect the yard was  oitbof bounds for parking...hence the teacher standing in the gateway telling people they cant enter. 
Where I work...the carpark has barely enough space for staff so a parent driving in taking a space causes havoc.. 
Parents are made aware of parking policies and in that case I would imagine the teacher was posted out there to ensure that cars did not enter the yard...for numbers of reasons. 
The.driver put himself in that position...not the teacher. 
And he could easily have reversed.


----------



## Pac man (Oct 24, 2017)

The teacher acted as irresponsible as the driver regardless of the policy. i dont think it was that easy to revers there was lots of traffic around. The arrogance of the teacher sitting on the bonet with his back turned, its fucking childish.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Oct 24, 2017)

Pac man said:


> The teacher acted as irresponsible as the driver regardless of the policy.



Nope.
The driver was a dickhead.
He could have just as easily driven on and pulled up further up the road.
But no...
He's too important to wait.
 In his rush through the gates he narrowly misses 2 kids on bikes.

Eta. Teacher is there to protect the kids....would you allow some dick to park in your driveway?


----------



## Pac man (Oct 24, 2017)

We dont know if the driver knew the policy do we? he turned in knowing the teacher was there but did the driver know why or was he just told by the teacher once he was stopped by him? Whatever the case the teacher sitting on the bonet with his back turned was pathetic. He should have just stood his ground or let the driver in to turn around..sitting on the bonet wtf.

eta how could he reverse with the teacher sittig on the bonet, it could be argued it was safer to go forward rather than reverse into a main road with some idiot on your bonet...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 24, 2017)

Pac man said:


> Wtf was the teacher playing at anyway? he clearly didnt care that he was putting that driver in a dangerous position, look at all the other traffic that is forced to overtake the back end of the car which is clearly blocking the road, (see the car on the right forced to stop just in picture) what kind of idiot blocks a car at the entrance of a school, forcing other traffic to take evasive manouvers.. he could have and should have let the driver in to turn around. Its no justification what the driver did but the teacher is clearly a fucking idiot. Not easy to reverse either the angle he was at and with other traffic speeding past and kids around.
> eta and the teacher had his back turned so couldnt see what was going on and clearly didnt care he was putting others at risk, as irresponsible as the driver and obviously why the driver did wat he did.



That road is not busy, so pulling away from the staff parking entrance to the parents drop-off zone wouldn't have been an issue. My best mate's eldest boy goes to that school,they had about 5 notices asking parents not to try and pull in to the staff parking area as there had been some fairly close calls with parents cars hitting kids in there.

And then this shithead rolls up in an illegally driven car and whether he had missed the 5 notices and the kid in his car failed to mention it, once told by the teacher he was having none of it and decided to drive at the teacher, just missing two other kids. And was fucking lucky not to be facing 10 years inside.


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## Pac man (Oct 24, 2017)

didnt know it was an illegally driven car..


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 24, 2017)

Pac man said:


> didnt know it was an illegally driven car..






> pleaded guilty to causing actual bodily harm, dangerous driving, driving without insurance and having no MOT.


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## Pac man (Oct 24, 2017)

and only got ten months..lucky escape then. I dont drive anymore too many idiots on the rds. I do think there should be much more done to stop tailgating, it seems to be the norm, most people havet a clue what thinking distance or braking distances are. And how the fuck do drink driver NOT get charged with dangerous driving? when you get in a car pissed, that is a constant and persistant course of bad driving (dangerous driving) drink driving should be automatic jail, comparecd to genuine mistakes made by drivers that have a momentary lapse of concentration and have the book thrown at them.


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## The Boy (Oct 24, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That road is not busy, so pulling away from the staff parking entrance to the parents drop-off zone wouldn't have been an issue. My best mate's eldest boy goes to that school,they had about 5 notices asking parents not to try and pull in to the staff parking area as there had been some fairly close calls with parents cars hitting kids in there.
> 
> And then this shithead rolls up in an illegally driven car and whether he had missed the 5 notices and the kid in his car failed to mention it, once told by the teacher he was having none of it and decided to drive at the teacher, just missing two other kids. And was fucking lucky not to be facing 10 years inside.




^^this. 

Even without the added context, the notion that anyone other than the driver is responsible for what happened, or that anyone other than the driver was being arrogant, irresponsible or putting others at risk is, frankly, laughable.

Edit: though his not facing ten years inside isn't so much to do with luck as much as his weapon of choice was a car.  Sentencing for motoring offences really is a nonsense.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Oct 24, 2017)

Pac man said:


> didnt know it was an illegally driven car..



If it was legally driven he would still be a dickhead.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 26, 2017)

BMW drivers really are such cunts...


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## hash tag (Oct 26, 2017)

If thats an X5, it should have a bit of auto breaking as well!

Old news. That mantle has long since passed...to Audi drivers


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## mauvais (Oct 26, 2017)

Whoops. What happened there then?

Edit: ah, this - Driver's 'lucky' police crash escape


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## weltweit (Oct 26, 2017)

Bad habits are easy to pick up. This morning I was driving along with the sat-nav talking to me and the radio on, after a while I had to switch them both off because they were badly affecting my concentration.


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## BigTom (Oct 27, 2017)

Revealed: how lorries hitting rail bridges costs taxpayer £23m


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 27, 2017)

BigTom said:


> Revealed: how lorries hitting rail bridges costs taxpayer £23m



A bridge on the road from Staines to Thorpe Park gets hit a few times every year by double decker buses. How? Surely the driver of a bus knows its height? There is a great big sign which lights up when an over height vehicle approaches, giving loads of time to stop:

 

Then once you can see the bridge there is a temporary sign and the bridge has been made very visible:

 


Yet here's the damage showing on the day the streetview car went past...

 




This bus was taking a group of school kids to Thorpe Park:

 


 


That's quite serious...


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## BigTom (Oct 27, 2017)

Yeah, that's really serious. Bad enough when trucks get stuck under but the thought of decapitating your top deck of passengers doesn't bear thinking about 
Quite how they fuck this up I really don't know, not thinking about their vehicle height but surely it's just part of what you do, I know it is when I'm in a van and I'm looking at car parks - I know each of the work vans and how high they are (1.8m, 2.0m, 2.1m).


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 4, 2017)

Hit and run, left her to die in a ditch, two years.

Businessman jailed after causing death of dog walker by dangerous driving


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## mrs quoad (Nov 4, 2017)

This cunt cut me up twice on my way to the post office, then literally *parked in the post office gateway* bc he’s too fucking something to use a normal parking space, then - when a bloke with a kid came out and asked him to move bc he was trapped (as, indeed, was everyone else) - parked across two fucking spaces bc, well. That’s his entitled right. Or something.

What a massive knob end.


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## not-bono-ever (Nov 4, 2017)

Did anyone key the fucker?


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## existentialist (Nov 4, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Did anyone key the fucker?


Caltrops. It's the only way.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 5, 2017)

sleaterkinney said:


> Hit and run, left her to die in a ditch, two years.
> 
> Businessman jailed after causing death of dog walker by dangerous driving



Disgraceful. Looking at his phone to tell the time? No watch on his wrist? No clock in the car? Call bullshit on checking the time.

Is there any other activity where if you do it in such an obviously negligent manner and a death results that you get such a light sentence?


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## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2017)

accidentally shelling that school when you meant to hit the barracks?


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## The Boy (Nov 5, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Is there any other activity where if you do it in such an obviously negligent manner and a death results that you get such a light sentence?



Senior management get away with murder everyday.

Edit: I was obviously being flippant, but plenty of cases of avoidable deaths due to management negligence etc.


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## hash tag (Nov 7, 2017)

What to do while eating lunch? Put your feet up, check your phone for messages Etc. Oh, and drive a lorry Lorry catches 4,000 dangerous drivers

Was very sorry to learn of the nasty accident in which people were airlifted to hospital on the London to Brighton veteran car run involving a 1902 Benz and several other cars 
on Reigate Hill. Why the hell did the organisers route the run down Reigate Hill. It's long and steep


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 7, 2017)

hash tag said:


> What to do while eating lunch? Put your feet up, check your phone for messages Etc. Oh, and drive a lorry Lorry catches 4,000 dangerous drivers






> In Surrey, one driver was caught attempting to put toothpaste on a toothbrush.



So Surrey, terrible driving, but dazzling teeth.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 8, 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-41913430

Drink driving. Racing (80 in a 30), no licence, no insurance. Mother of 5 month old killed. 8 years out in 4. Not good enough by miles.


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## Winot (Nov 9, 2017)

SWD: Mum live streams her shocking driving on Facebook - "earning 60 points in 12 minutes"


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## Spymaster (Nov 9, 2017)

mrs quoad said:


> This cunt cut me up twice on my way to the post office, then literally *parked in the post office gateway* bc he’s too fucking something to use a normal parking space, then - when a bloke with a kid came out and asked him to move bc he was trapped (as, indeed, was everyone else) - parked across two fucking spaces bc, well. That’s his entitled right. Or something.
> 
> What a massive knob end.
> 
> View attachment 119594


Personal number plates are invariably the mark of a twat. Give them a wide berth.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 9, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Personal number plates are invariably the mark of a twat. Give them a wide berth.



Quite so. Was chatting with Frau Bahn about them the other day, she said she'd buy me one if she could find CUNT1. Explained that any private plate says pretty much exactly that anyway.


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## 2hats (Nov 9, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Personal number plates are invariably the mark of a twat. Give them a wide berth.


There’s a reason they’re called vanity plates.


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## Spymaster (Nov 9, 2017)

Winot said:


> SWD: Mum live streams her shocking driving on Facebook - "earning 60 points in 12 minutes"


She should be done for her choice of music too.


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## Spymaster (Nov 9, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Was chatting with Frau Bahn about them the other day, she said she'd buy me one if she could find CUNT1.


Tell her I'd be prepared to sell it for 100k.


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## hash tag (Nov 9, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> She should be done for her choice of music too.



not to mention her choice of junk food


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## Spymaster (Nov 9, 2017)

hash tag said:


> not to mention her choice of junk food


Nice hair though.


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## mrs quoad (Nov 9, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Personal number plates are invariably the mark of a twat. Give them a wide berth.


Dad of a kid in my prep school (ooft), Adam Cox, used to have a small red sports car with “7 cox”. Which, as an <11yo, I appreciated.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 9, 2017)

mrs quoad said:


> Dad of a kid in my prep school (ooft), Adam Cox, used to have a small red sports car with “7 cox”. Which, as an <11yo, I appreciated.



Would have better if it were: 7“ cox


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## kebabking (Nov 9, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Would have better if it were: 7“ cox



Why would he go round telling people he was flacid?

Don't understand....


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## hash tag (Nov 10, 2017)

I hate to think what happened here Horror as 'London bus smashes into car carrying baby pushing it down street'


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## not-bono-ever (Nov 10, 2017)

drive by wire problem ? not unheard of


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## Dogsauce (Nov 10, 2017)

Were they parked in a bus lane and the driver went a bit postal?


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## weltweit (Nov 11, 2017)

Thought I would find a driving thread for this. What do you think?



Would 2/3 rubbing alcohol 1/3 water be corrosive?


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## not-bono-ever (Nov 11, 2017)

Paramedics told 'don't block my drive'

Not the driver who is a spunker , but the home owner in this case


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## not-bono-ever (Nov 13, 2017)

Banker cleared after claiming vomit undermined breath-test | Daily Mail Online

Justice is served, Millionare Banker and Aston martin driver escapes drink drive prosecution after he vomits before the breath test.

not lolz


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## BigTom (Nov 14, 2017)

one for the lolz here. Could be an amusing twitter feed to follow as well.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 14, 2017)

^^^
Belgians really are terrible drivers.


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## hash tag (Nov 16, 2017)

I bet he had no passengers with him Hoots man! Bagpipe-playing driver stuns Dunedin police


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## hash tag (Nov 16, 2017)

BigTom said:


> one for the lolz here. Could be an amusing twitter feed to follow as well.




Bearing in mind it was probably left hand drive. If she were driving my car, Mrs Tag would say she did not see it due to the massive a pillars


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## Poi E (Nov 16, 2017)

hash tag said:


> I bet he had no passengers with him Hoots man! Bagpipe-playing driver stuns Dunedin police



Just got a warning! The piper should have paid


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## T & P (Nov 21, 2017)

Nürburgring fuckwittery


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## BigTom (Nov 23, 2017)

from page 15 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ta/file/661933/tsgb-2017-report-summaries.pdf

80% of drivers breaking 20mph speed limits, over 50% 30mph limits.


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## Teaboy (Nov 23, 2017)

20 mph speed limits are not enforced.  A law like this without enforcement is pretty useless.


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## mojo pixy (Nov 23, 2017)

They fucking are in Bristol. I've had two notices this year alone.

EtA, I will now be pissing all and sundry off immensely as I creep about everywhere at 21mph. Anyone who beeps, overtakes, flashes or revs themselves into my boot can fuck off and take the 3 points with them


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 23, 2017)

46% of cars going over 70 on a motorway, I 'd have thought it would be more than that, police cars normally cruise along at 75-80 and don't bat an eyelid if cars creep past them.


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## kebabking (Nov 23, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 46% of cars going over 70 on a motorway, I 'd have thought it would be more than that, police cars normally cruise along at 75-80 and don't bat an eyelid if cars creep past them.



i only drive under 70 on the motorway in two circumstances - when i'm getting on it, and when i'm getting off it.


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## Spymaster (Nov 23, 2017)

The 20 limits are the most sensible, imo. You can generally see why it’s a 20. Quite often 30 limits look too slow for the environment; like some planners just got lazy and slapped a 30 limit on the road without much thought so they could go home early on a Friday evening. The ones that look silly are the most likely to be ignored.


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## Spymaster (Nov 23, 2017)

80mph is my motorway cruising speed in fair weather. Drive at 70 and you’re being constantly passed.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> The 20 limits are the most sensible, imo. You can generally see why it’s a 20. Quite often 30 limits look too slow for the environment; like some planners just got lazy and slapped a 30 limit on the road without much thought so they could go home early on a Friday evening. The ones that look silly are the most likely to be ignored.




This one near me is a 30 that every single vehicle ignores:



 

Further back it goes past houses, but once in the open it should go up to at least 40, but just stays at 30.


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## SpookyFrank (Nov 23, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 46% of cars going over 70 on a motorway, I 'd have thought it would be more than that, police cars normally cruise along at 75-80 and don't bat an eyelid if cars creep past them.



My car tops out at 70mph so i never even have to look at my speedo on the motorway


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## hash tag (Nov 23, 2017)

It sounds like a golf, it looks like a golf (besides if it was an Audi, it would not have been touched)

Driver hitting speeds of 136mph fails to spot officer chasing him for miles


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## a_chap (Nov 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> 80mph is my motorway cruising speed in fair weather. Drive at 70 and you’re being constantly passed.



I fucking hate it when people break the speed limit on motorways.

Makes me feel very unsafe on my bicycle


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## mauvais (Nov 23, 2017)

T & P said:


> Nürburgring fuckwittery


There was coolant spillage (slippy) on the track on an unsighted bend, so all bets were off. The internet is divided as to whether blokey in the video is a bellend for unbelting and getting out on a live track in the middle of a high speed accident, or wise for trying to warn others and as it turns out protect himself.


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## mauvais (Nov 23, 2017)

BigTom said:


> from page 15 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ta/file/661933/tsgb-2017-report-summaries.pdf
> 
> 80% of drivers breaking 20mph speed limits, over 50% 30mph limits.


The proper data:

Vehicle speed compliance (SPE01) - GOV.UK

44% of car drivers doing 25+ in a 20, 15% doing 30+. Average speed, 25, compared to 31 in a 30. That's not actually that bad, I think.

It suggests they work, just not to the full extent. Or, it might be that 20s are implemented where speeds are already lower. Who knows - data!


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## T & P (Nov 23, 2017)

mauvais said:


> There was coolant spillage (slippy) on the track on an unsighted bend, so all bets were off. The internet is divided as to whether blokey in the video is a bellend for unbelting and getting out on a live track in the middle of a high speed accident, or wise for trying to warn others and as it turns out protect himself.


Mmm... his car was certainly hit by at least one oncoming vehicle, but there is no doubt in my mind that a number of the other collisions seen in the video would have still happened if his car hadn't been there. He was parked as far to the right as the barriers allowed, and other cars were crashed/ parked in the middle and to the left of the road, blocking far a wider proportion of the track.

TBH I now feel my earlier 'fuckwittery' description of events was unfair on the drivers. You're there to race, not to drive carefully and defensively as you would on public roads. I guess the crash happened at a particularly unfortunate spot. F1 circuits have blokes scattered along the track ready to wave flags for such eventualities, because they know how difficult it'd be for drivers to spot accidents and brake in time on their own accord. Perhaps there is a valid claim to suggest the owners of Nurburgring should have stewards posted along the track.


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## T & P (Nov 24, 2017)

BigTom said:


> from page 15 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ta/file/661933/tsgb-2017-report-summaries.pdf
> 
> 80% of drivers breaking 20mph speed limits, over 50% 30mph limits.


20 mph limits, certainly when imposed across borough-wide areas, can be completely absurd, and it should come as no surprise to anyone that the overwhelming majority of drivers break the 20 mph limit regularly (if not always, and depending on the location and conditions). This is not a sign of widespread recklessness by psychotic, selfish drivers, but a reflection of the fact that sometimes the law gets something completely wrong, and that individuals are perfectly capable of ignoring such laws selectively and quite safely.


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## dervish (Nov 24, 2017)

mauvais said:


> There was coolant spillage (slippy) on the track on an unsighted bend, so all bets were off. The internet is divided as to whether blokey in the video is a bellend for unbelting and getting out on a live track in the middle of a high speed accident, or wise for trying to warn others and as it turns out protect himself.



Personally I think he did the exact right thing, get himself to safety and then if safe try to warn other drivers. If he'd stayed in the car he would definitely been in more danger and unable to help anyone else.


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## Winot (Nov 24, 2017)

T & P said:


> 20 mph limits, certainly when imposed across borough-wide areas, can be completely absurd, and it should come as no surprise to anyone that the overwhelming majority of drivers break the 20 mph limit regularly (if not always, and depending on the location and conditions). This is not a sign of widespread recklessness by psychotic, selfish drivers, but a reflection of the fact that sometimes the law gets something completely wrong, and that individuals are perfectly capable of ignoring such laws selectively and quite safely.



“I’m a better judge of what’s a safe speed than the so-called experts”. The defence of speeding drivers everywhere.


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## mauvais (Nov 24, 2017)

T & P said:


> Mmm... his car was certainly hit by at least one oncoming vehicle, but there is no doubt in my mind that a number of the other collisions seen in the video would have still happened if his car hadn't been there. He was parked as far to the right as the barriers allowed, and other cars were crashed/ parked in the middle and to the left of the road, blocking far a wider proportion of the track.
> 
> TBH I now feel my earlier 'fuckwittery' description of events was unfair on the drivers. You're there to race, not to drive carefully and defensively as you would on public roads. I guess the crash happened at a particularly unfortunate spot. F1 circuits have blokes scattered along the track ready to wave flags for such eventualities, because they know how difficult it'd be for drivers to spot accidents and brake in time on their own accord. Perhaps there is a valid claim to suggest the owners of Nurburgring should have stewards posted along the track.





dervish said:


> Personally I think he did the exact right thing, get himself to safety and then if safe try to warn other drivers. If he'd stayed in the car he would definitely been in more danger and unable to help anyone else.


There's a story about it here: https://jalopnik.com/watch-a-harrowing-massive-pileup-unfold-at-nurburgring-1820397933

A few things: it _is_ a public road. It certainly has a lot in common with a racetrack. However there are strict rules, and both racing and time-setting attempts are forbidden on public days. There are also marshals/flaggers, I think, but there weren't any at that point.

The concern is about the time between unbuckling and being over the armco, during which he's exposed to more danger than sitting in the car.


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## T & P (Nov 24, 2017)

Winot said:


> “I’m a better judge of what’s a safe speed than the so-called experts”. The defence of speeding drivers everywhere.


There is not such thing as a safe speed, other than 0 mph. Some speeds are safer than others of course, and that is all part of the compromise between safety and practicality that all of us, whether we want to admit it or not, are prepared to accept, unless one is campaigining for a total ban on motor vehicles on urban areas, which is the only truly safe option.

Once we are prepared to accept there has to be a reasonable and adequate compromise between safety and practicality, then we can discuss the issue of what the most adequate speed might be for a given area or road according to conditions and and physical characteristics. It is plainly obvious that 20 mph is an ludicrously slow and completely inappropriate and unfit for purpose speed limit for *certain* roads. That is why blanket 20 mph limits across entire neighbourhoods regardless of which roads or areas are affected are ill-thought bullshit, and why practically 100% of drivers including police patrols ignore such limits on _certain_ roads where the conditions allow for higher speeds without a serious compromise on safety.


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## kebabking (Nov 24, 2017)

Winot said:


> “I’m a better judge of what’s a safe speed than the so-called experts”. The defence of speeding drivers everywhere.



The experience and judgement that allows me to drive at 60mph along a straight, 2 mile dual carriageway near me thats miles from anywhere and which some witless mouthbreather has classed as a 40, is the same experience and judgement that tells me that only said witless mouthbreather would consider driving at more than 15 down a suburban street near my children's school despite it happily boasting a 30 limit...


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## BigTom (Nov 24, 2017)

T & P said:


> There is not such thing as a safe speed, other than 0 mph. Some speeds are safer than others of course, and that is all part of the compromise between safety and practicality that all of us, whether we want to admit it or not, are prepared to accept, unless one is campaigining for a total ban on motor vehicles on urban areas, which is the only truly safe option.
> 
> Once we are prepared to accept there has to be a reasonable and adequate compromise between safety and practicality, then we can discuss the issue of what the most adequate speed might be for a given area or road according to conditions and and physical characteristics. It is plainly obvious that 20 mph is an ludicrously slow and completely inappropriate and unfit for purpose speed limit for *certain* roads. That is why blanket 20 mph limits across entire neighbourhoods regardless of which roads or areas are affected are ill-thought bullshit, and why practically 100% of drivers including police patrols ignore such limits on _certain_ roads where the conditions allow for higher speeds without a serious compromise on safety.



But you don't know what the roads were that were surveyed, there was only 9 sites and they aren't detailed so we've no way of knowing. All we know is that they are 20mph limits. I don't think most local authorities do blanket 20mph limits, certainly none of the West Midlands councils do, I think it's just some in London, so it's somewhere between possible and likely that some, most or all of these sites are not in blanket 20mph boroughs. You can't say these figures don't show a problem because there are some roads you think have been wrongly classed and decide this speeding is on those, at least mauvais had some good points about the majority of speeding being only slightly over and that the average speed was significantly reduced compared to 30mph zones so even though the vast majority of drivers can't obey the limit, they are still moving slower than when it was 30mph limits (with the caveat they may have been slower moving roads before the change).
I posted it only to say that it's clear that only a small portion of drivers are able to follow a simple rule. 



kebabking said:


> The experience and judgement that allows me to drive at 60mph along a straight, 2 mile dual carriageway near me thats miles from anywhere and which some witless mouthbreather has classed as a 40, is the same experience and judgement that tells me that only said witless mouthbreather would consider driving at more than 15 down a suburban street near my children's school despite it happily boasting a 30 limit...



Thing is, that's probably been classed as a 40 due to collisions on that stretch. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 50 or 60 and there was 2 fatalities in a year (iirc that's the threshold at which councils have to examine a road to see what they can do to reduce risk there) and they reduced it to 40 as a result.


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## Dogsauce (Nov 24, 2017)

20mph in residential areas isn’t about how safely you can drive, or how good modern brakes are or whatever defensive stuff a lot of drivers come out with, but about the impact on others when they fuck up, e.g. kids running into the road. I know it feels frustratingly slow if you’re not used to it, but it’ll seep in eventually.

There are blanket limits in some London boroughs (I’m in one) but they’re the sort of places where there’s no justification for owning a car anyway.


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## T & P (Nov 24, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> 20mph in residential areas isn’t about how safely you can drive, or how good modern brakes are or whatever defensive stuff a lot of drivers come out with, but about the impact on others when they fuck up, e.g. kids running into the road. I know it feels frustratingly slow if you’re not used to it, but it’ll seep in eventually.
> 
> There are blanket limits in some London boroughs (I’m in one) but they’re the sort of places where there’s no justification for owning a car anyway.


I certainly don't object to 20 mph on residential side roads, and in fact observe that or an even lower speed even when the limit is set at 30 mph. Most drivers can actually adjust their speed according to conditions and local geography regardless of what the local laws might allow.

But at the same time there are plenty of trunk/ main roads in Lambeth affected by the blanket speed limit where a 20 mph limit is so thoroughly inadequate it's nothing short of a farce. And that in effect can prove counterproductive in the long term as far observance of the Highway Code is concerned.


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## hash tag (Nov 24, 2017)

I don't have the slightest problem with 20 limits, but do have a problem with the way it's coordinated some times. There are estate side roads close To battersea power station which are run by wandsworth and are 20mph. You exit these roads on to a main route operated by Lambeth and they become 20mph. It's a crazy set up.


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## mojo pixy (Nov 24, 2017)

T & P said:


> I certainly don't object to 20 mph on residential side roads, and in fact observe that or an even lower speed even when the limit is set at 30 mph. Most drivers can actually adjust their speed according to conditions and local geography regardless of what the local laws might allow.
> 
> But at the same time there are plenty of trunk/ main roads in Lambeth affected by the blanket speed limit where a 20 mph limit is so thoroughly inadequate it's nothing short of a farce. And that in effect can prove counterproductive in the long term as far observance of the Highway Code is concerned.



I have heard that the reason for 20mph limits on main roads is to help keep traffic _moving_; so instead of _30-stop-30-stop-30-stop-30-stop_ etc, it might go more like _20-10-20-10-20-10-20-10-ok maybe stop now_. It's better for emissions to keep traffic moving slowly than stopping and starting, better for the cars' brakes and engines, generally better for drivers' tempers to keep moving (albeit slowly), plus slowly moving traffic rather than fast moving but constantly stopping traffic is said to bring the chances of accidents down.

Unfortunately, from inside our own cars we only see our bit of the picture, not the broad view of Traffic Flow.


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## hash tag (Dec 1, 2017)

Interesting case Driver using hands-free kit kills young dad during "in-depth" chat with friend

"The fact that using a phone (hands free) is lawful does not alter the fact it is an actual distraction. The guidelines make that clear."

"A police collision investigator concluded Ayres' driving had caused the crash and said he could not discount the possibility that the lawful use of a hands free phone for such a period had led to a distraction."

PC Godfrey Barlow told the jury use of a hands free phone can provide a distraction and was a "possible" cause of the collision.

"The research shows less time is spent looking at the road," PC Barlow explained.

When asked how the use of hands free phone differed from talking to a passenger PC Barlow said: "The research mentions you visualise the person you are speaking to."

He added: "It is going to lower your situational awareness."


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## dervish (Dec 1, 2017)

Wasn't there a study that said that using a handsfree was about the same distraction as drink driving?


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 1, 2017)

Company I used to work for wouldn't allow drivers to use hands-free, pretty sure they started doing this about five years ago, it's well known to increase risks.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 1, 2017)

dervish said:


> Wasn't there a study that said that using a handsfree was about the same distraction as drink driving?



I think that was more using a hand held mobile. We have hands free and it is distracting, so tend not to use it.


----------



## dervish (Dec 1, 2017)

This might have been what I was thinking of.


----------



## T & P (Dec 1, 2017)

I’ve always been quite skeptic about how serious an effect having a conversation on a hands-free has on drivers’ attention. I can’t certainly see it being significantly worse than having the same conversation with someone in the car. Surely it depends on the nature of the conversation far more than where the voice of the other person is coming from.


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## hash tag (Dec 1, 2017)

If you are speaking to a passenger, under ordinary circumstances, they will have their eyes on the road. Even if they make a slight reaction to something they see, the driver will probably pick up on it.
that said, children, dogs, load music, a good argument can be very distracting/dangerous.


----------



## T & P (Dec 2, 2017)

hash tag said:


> If you are speaking to a passenger, under ordinary circumstances, they will have their eyes on the road. Even if they make a slight reaction to something they see, the driver will probably pick up on it.
> that said, children, dogs, load music, a good argument can be very distracting/dangerous.


Exactly. IIRC some of the most common and worst arguments between couples happen in cars. I can imagine those being as disruptive as as any interaction in a car could be. I’d imagine warring children in the back seat are pretty bad too. In fact both such scenarios have got to be far more distracting/ potentially dangerous than an ordinary conversation over a hands free system. 

Point being, if transporting unruly children is not deemed too dangerous a task to be done safely by the average driver, then having a normal conversation over the phone shouldn’t be either.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 2, 2017)

Passengers tend to be watching the road and will usually shut up if the driver is having to do anything tricky, there's generally an awareness of what's going on and conversation adjusts instinctively, whereas a mobile caller doesn't have that awareness.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 2, 2017)

Has anyone commented on the driving test, apparently they now have a move which is causing some controversy, pulling across the road into the part of oncoming traffic and then reversing back to your side before continuing. It sounds a little tricky, if that is what it is, and I am not convinced!


----------



## hash tag (Dec 3, 2017)

Slightly off thread, I know, but how stupid California Ferrari thief caught when he ran out of gas money, police say | The Kansas City Star


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 3, 2017)

The thing I've been finding drivers having the biggest problem with in recent weeks is that rule that says if you're crossing the centre line give way to oncoming vehicles. So many flying straight at me on those roads where cars are parked both sides, thinking it's OK because there's a 50cm gap that a bike coming the other way (who is not over the centre line) can just about squeeze through. No reduction in speed necessary. Absolute cunts.


----------



## T & P (Dec 4, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> The thing I've been finding drivers having the biggest problem with in recent weeks is that rule that says if you're crossing the centre line give way to oncoming vehicles. So many flying straight at me on those roads where cars are parked both sides, thinking it's OK because there's a 50cm gap that a bike coming the other way (who is not over the centre line) can just about squeeze through. No reduction in speed necessary. Absolute cunts.


When I'm on my scooter I very often experience this. Even if I've entered the narrow section first most car drivers will not only enter it too, but fail to reduce their speed at all, expecting me to slow down and pin myself against the parked cars to let them through.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 4, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> The thing I've been finding drivers having the biggest problem with in recent weeks is that rule that says if you're crossing the centre line give way to oncoming vehicles. So many flying straight at me on those roads where cars are parked both sides, thinking it's OK because there's a 50cm gap that a bike coming the other way (who is not over the centre line) can just about squeeze through. No reduction in speed necessary. Absolute cunts.



All the street near me are like this, double parked so the rules about who should give way go out the window. When I'm driving I find people (except cabbies) are very good at letting each other go past based on who can most easily pull over or who gets to the narrow bit first. When I'm on a bike though, this idea of patiently waiting for someone to pass goes out the window and cars just come straight at me whether there's space or not.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 5, 2017)

BigTom said:


> The good news here is that this is a story only because West Midlands police have actually started to fine people for obstructing the pavement. Hopefully a few tickets will improve matters.



Operation's started in earnest 
86 people fined yesterday, 1 towed, some will get points as well, lots more "given advice". Excellent 

The number of drivers fined for bad parking in ONE DAY


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 11, 2017)

Done for careless driving:


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 11, 2017)

The mind boggles.


----------



## Poi E (Dec 11, 2017)

Snow excuse!


----------



## mauvais (Dec 11, 2017)

Also known as 'tank commanders'


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 11, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Done for careless driving:
> 
> View attachment 122776


You get a few of these every time it snows. Anyone with an IQ above 20 can see that it's idiotic. The driver should be banned for a year on the basis that they are a fucking moron, and have to redo their test.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 11, 2017)

BigTom said:


> The number of drivers fined for bad parking in ONE DAY


Does there exist a local news website that isn't rendered virtually unusable by spammy pop-ups, adverts and sidebars?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 11, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Does there exist a local news website that isn't rendered virtually unusable by spammy pop-ups, adverts and sidebars?



Yes, all of them, when you have a decent adblocker installed.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 11, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Does there exist a local news website that isn't rendered virtually unusable by spammy pop-ups, adverts and sidebars?



yeah, it's awful, I fucking hate the popout videos with the news story that autoplay as well.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 11, 2017)

BigTom said:


> yeah, it's awful, I fucking hate the popout videos with the news story that autoplay as well.


Wales Online is the worst. Every time ddraig links to them it virtually freezes my browser.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 11, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Does there exist a local news website that isn't rendered virtually unusable by spammy pop-ups, adverts and sidebars?


Ghostery plus ublock origin renders them viewable once more, I find, though sadly will never correct the pisspoor journalism/subediting.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 11, 2017)

2hats said:


> Ghostery plus ublock origin renders them viewable once more, I find, though sadly will never correct the pisspoor journalism/subediting.


Cheers. So I downloaded Ghostery then opened BigTom's link again and it highlighted 24 trackers. Do I need to do anything or does it do what's necessary for me.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 11, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Cheers. So I downloaded Ghostery then opened BigTom's link again and it highlighted 24 trackers. Do I need to do anything or does it do what's necessary for me.


Default settings for both should suffice.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 11, 2017)




----------



## 2hats (Dec 11, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> View attachment 122806


Google Analytics and Google+.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 11, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Interesting case Driver using hands-free kit kills young dad during "in-depth" chat with friend



I hope she get a suitably lengthy sentence. 3 to 5 years would suffice.




dervish said:


> Wasn't there a study that said that using a handsfree was about the same distraction as drink driving?



I don't know of any official study but Mythbusters did an experiment which showed that using hands-free was no less of a distraction and just as dangerous as holding the phone to your ear and driving with one hand.


----------



## bimble (Dec 11, 2017)

jesus. Woman dies after being run over four times in south London


----------



## hash tag (Dec 11, 2017)

A quick search says just 3 years....a landmark case though.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 11, 2017)

Saul Goodman said:


> I hope she get a suitably lengthy sentence. 3 to 5 years would suffice.
> 
> I don't know of any official study but Mythbusters did an experiment which showed that using hands-free was no less of a distraction and just as dangerous as holding the phone to your ear and driving with one hand.



I am struggling with this one, most modern cars have on-board computers that connect to your mobile for hands-free operation. Is having a hands-free conversation on the phone anymore distracting than a conversation with others in the vehicle?


----------



## hash tag (Dec 11, 2017)

Yes.....see earlier posts. A passenger will have an idea what's happening on the road and will sub consciously warn you of danger in some way, even if it's suddenly just stopping talking. Someone on the end of a phone cannot do this.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 11, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Yes.....see earlier posts. A passenger will have an idea what's happening on the road and will sub consciously warn you of danger in some way, even if it's suddenly just stopping talking. Someone on the end of a phone cannot do this.



I've yet to be in a car when kids have suddenly just stopped talking to the driver, yet I've been in a car when a driver has told someone on the phone to wait as he's got a tricky situation to deal with.

I would point out I don't have hands-free operation in my vans, and I have no wish to take calls whilst driving.

But, at the end of the day, the fault rests with the driver allowing themselves to be distracted.

Ban hand-free mobile kit, ban kids from cars.


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## hash tag (Dec 11, 2017)

When is a hands free not  a Hands free?
Does this mean hands free via the infotainment systems, which can be operated by steering wheel buttons or voice, should also be banned.

I reckon so. But it is unenforceable until there is an accident.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 11, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> I am struggling with this one, most modern cars have on-board computers that connect to your mobile for hands-free operation. Is having a hands-free conversation on the phone anymore distracting than a conversation with others in the vehicle?


It is considerably more distracting.
Pretty much all modern cars have cup holders, but drinking your morning coffee on the way to work isn't safe, despite many people thinking otherwise.
Sat-navs are probably as bad as, or even worse than phones, unless people are using their phones to update their Facebook status whilst driving, and it's astounding how many people actually do this!


----------



## hash tag (Dec 11, 2017)

No way...unbelievable if true.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 11, 2017)

hash tag said:


> No way...unbelievable if true.


I think I made it up


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 11, 2017)

Yeah, my brother has one of these on-board computer screens on the dashboard, which frankly I would find very distracting.

But, OTOH, holding a one-to-one conversation on the hands-free set-up would be less distracting to me than having three screaming kids in the back seat.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 11, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yeah, my brother has one of these on-board computer screens on the dashboard, which frankly I would find very distracting.
> 
> But, OTOH, holding a one-to-one conversation on the hands-free set-up would be less distracting to me than having three screaming kids in the back seat.


Children shouldn't be allowed in cars


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 11, 2017)




----------



## hash tag (Dec 11, 2017)

Children really shouldn't be driving cars anyway.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 11, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Children really shouldn't be driving cars anyway.


I reckon they'd do a lot better job than some of the drivers I come across on a daily basis.


----------



## mojo pixy (Dec 11, 2017)

As long as the car is pedal-powered I don't see a problem


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 11, 2017)

Saul Goodman said:


> I reckon they'd do a lot better job than some of the drivers I come across on a daily basis.



Well, the problem will be solved in the next few years, driver-less cars, sorted.


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## Spymaster (Dec 11, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Well, the problem will be solved in the next few years, driver-less cars, sorted.


Not any time soon it won't be. The idea that fully driverless roads are just around the corner is nonsense. I doubt it will happen in yours or my lifetimes.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 11, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Well, the problem will be solved in the next few years, driver-less cars, sorted.


That's going to create its own set of issues. For example, who's going to be held accountable for traffic offences, the 'driver' or the car?


----------



## hash tag (Dec 11, 2017)

Driverless taxis have already been trialled in Singapore and start next year in Japan....driverless is not far away


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## 2hats (Dec 11, 2017)

Automated vehicles thread over here ->.


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## Winot (Dec 11, 2017)

hash tag said:


> When is a hands free not  a Hands free?
> Does this mean hands free via the infotainment systems, which can be operated by steering wheel buttons or voice, should also be banned.
> 
> I reckon so. But it is unenforceable until there is an accident.



This is one reason why the law does not ban hands-free.


----------



## T & P (Dec 11, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Done for careless driving:
> 
> View attachment 122776


Is there any regulation in this country about ensuring your vehicle is reasonably clear of snow and ice on its entire bodywork? I've seen enough video clips and gifs to be fully aware that a dislodged chunk of snow or ice flying off the roof of the car or truck in front can seriously fuck up your windscreen.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 12, 2017)

Lumps of snow falling off vehicles are also hazardous for cyclists and other vehicles as they can leave big patches of compressed snow/ice on the road, more than can be quickly dissolved by road salt. Easy to slide/skid on. It was something I'd encounter in Leeds when cars had come into town from snowy settlements on the outskirts, even if there was no snow in the city itself. Something inexperienced riders might not know to look out for.


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## weltweit (Dec 12, 2017)

Yes, for example if you don't clear your roof and or bonnet you can be fined and get points on your licence, I forget exactly what the offence is but it is an offence.


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## existentialist (Dec 12, 2017)

weltweit said:


> Yes, for example if you don't clear your roof and or bonnet you can be fined and get points on your licence, I forget exactly what the offence is but it is an offence.


It's potentially several offences.

A car with bits that can drop off (ie snow) will represent an offence under the Construction and Use regulations; a car whose lights are not fully visible will be an offence under the Vehicle Lighting regulations, and a car whose numberplate(s) or tax disc (not relevant any more) are not visible will be an offence under the Vehicle Excise and Registration regulations.

ETA: oh, and as Bahnhof Strasse's post points out, a really extreme case could be careless (or, I imagine, reckless) driving, too.


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## hash tag (Dec 12, 2017)

Try driving downa motorway like I did yesterday. The cars visibility is obscured and having great chunks of snow flying at you whilst driving at speed is potentially dangerous.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 15, 2017)

Whoops Mercedes driver ploughs through railings and wedges car in basement


----------



## Poi E (Dec 15, 2017)

Still ironing out the self-park.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 15, 2017)

As I keep saying, Mercedes is trying very hard to steal Audi's crown.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 15, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> As I keep saying, Mercedes is trying very hard to steal Audi's crown.


BMW now.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 15, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> BMW now.



Old school wankery


----------



## Poi E (Dec 15, 2017)

Mercedes have finally re-discovered panel fit for their new cars.


----------



## DownwardDog (Dec 15, 2017)

Poi E said:


> Mercedes have finally re-discovered panel fit for their new cars.



They are mainly a finance company that makes a few ugly cars on the side now.


----------



## Poi E (Dec 15, 2017)

They never really got how to build small/medium cars.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 15, 2017)

Pedestrians here on their way to work have started walking in the road because the pavements are too icy, being uncleared. But the thing is, they are walking at 7am, in the dark, wearing black!


----------



## T & P (Dec 21, 2017)

'Disrespectful' driver overtakes hearse

I must say I once found myself in the middle of a funeral convoy. I was joining a main road on my scooter from a side street and saw a gap in the traffic so I joined in. Only then I realised I was in the middle of a six-to-eight-car funeral convoy. Was stuck in it for a good half mile as well, before I decided to cut my losses and overtake the convoy when everyone stopped at a traffic lights. Felt like a right dick though


----------



## mojo pixy (Dec 21, 2017)

I hope you gave the horn a bit of welly as you zoomed off


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## hash tag (Dec 21, 2017)

T & P said:


> 'Disrespectful' driver overtakes hearse
> 
> I must say I once found myself in the middle of a funeral convoy. I was joining a main road on my scooter from a side street and saw a gap in the traffic so I joined in. Only then I realised I was in the middle of a six-to-eight-car funeral convoy. Was stuck in it for a good half mile as well, before I decided to cut my losses and overtake the convoy when everyone stopped at a traffic lights. Felt like a right dick though



When I was looking after a sheltered housing scheme, we had a hearse and a couple of funeral cars loading up outside the scheme, there were drivers hooting as they could not get passed 
This was South London, the undertakers were running late and crematorium slots are time sensitive. Chatting to the undertakers about this, they said they would make up time on the way there, ducking and diving through the back doubles etc. What about the speed humps? It's ok they replied, the coffin is well screwed down


----------



## dessiato (Dec 21, 2017)

hash tag said:


> When I was looking after a sheltered housing scheme, we had a hearse and a couple of funeral cars loading up outside the scheme, there were drivers hooting as they could not get passed
> This was South London, the undertakers were running late and crematorium slots are time sensitive. Chatting to the undertakers about this, they said they would make up time on the way there, ducking and diving through the back doubles etc. What about the speed humps? It's ok they replied, the coffin is well screwed down


I was at my goddaughter's when her weeks old baby stopped breathing. We dialled 999 and an ambulance arrived with lights and sirens. They stopped outside the house and thus blocked the road. The number of drivers sounding their horns, swearing, and demanding they move was shocking, especially as some had followed it, and others moved over if it needed to pass. To this day I cannot understand how, having seen the full blues etc. people couldn't understand the situation.


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## hash tag (Dec 21, 2017)

Yup, been there done that one with las also


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## mauvais (Dec 21, 2017)

A couple of miles down the road tonight:

 

The mind boggles.

(not my photo, stole it off Facebook)


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## T & P (Dec 21, 2017)

Wow. That’s quite an effort 

How the fuck did the driver manage to mount the car up a wall backwards?


----------



## mauvais (Dec 22, 2017)

It transpires that it was the result of a police chase involving a stolen car. Fortunately noone was seriously injured.

The car on the right with people stood around is the stolen car, a Saab 9-3. The other two, the Mazda and the Audi up the wall, were merely parked. Still can't quite fathom the physics of it.


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## A380 (Dec 27, 2017)

mauvais said:


> .... the Audi ...



All you needed to say really...


----------



## dervish (Dec 28, 2017)

A380 said:


> All you needed to say really...



The audi was parked, even if audi drivers do deserve their reputation, it's really a bit much to blame them when they're not even in the car.


----------



## A380 (Dec 28, 2017)

dervish said:


> The audi was parked, even if audi drivers do deserve their reputation, it's really a bit much to blame them when they're not even in the car.


If it was an Audi I bet it was parked in a disabled parking spot which itself was in a cycle lane. On school zig zags..


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## mojo pixy (Dec 28, 2017)

Clearly parked with the handbrake off *shakes head judgementally*


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## hash tag (Dec 28, 2017)

Is it the Audi facing the camera, if so it is parked facing the wrong way/wrong side of the road at night at well. Clearly to blame for the accident.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 28, 2017)

The Audi was easily levered up onto the wall because the front end was raised by the squashed basket of kittens it was parked on.


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## T & P (Dec 29, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Is it the Audi facing the camera, if so it is parked facing the wrong way/wrong side of the road at night at well. Clearly to blame for the accident.


Your post has reminded me of the issue of parking 'on the wrong side' of the road, which I had meant to raise in here but kept forgetting. Does the Highway Code actually forbid this in all circumstances?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 29, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> Clearly parked with the handbrake off *shakes head judgementally*



Handbrakes come on automatically with modern Audis.


Lights turn off by themselves too. Unlike Suzuki Escolops or whatever the fuck I had hired and wouldn’t start this morning. Just cos I’d left the poxy things on all night...


----------



## hash tag (Dec 29, 2017)

T & P said:


> Your post has reminded me of the issue of parking 'on the wrong side' of the road, which I had meant to raise in here but kept forgetting. Does the Highway Code actually forbid this in all circumstances?



I can't answer directly, but I know it's wrong because of driver pulling out into oncoming traffic and having poor visibility and a;so because of the lights.


----------



## dessiato (Dec 29, 2017)

If there's an Audi or BMW involved it is their fault. It's a tradition, or an old charter, or something. It's in Highway Code too.


----------



## mauvais (Dec 29, 2017)

T & P said:


> Your post has reminded me of the issue of parking 'on the wrong side' of the road, which I had meant to raise in here but kept forgetting. Does the Highway Code actually forbid this in all circumstances?


Only at night. The exception is marked spaces.

You're also supposed to leave parking lights on if you park on a road with a limit higher than 30.


----------



## Poi E (Dec 29, 2017)

Bloody lethal when people park the wrong way at night and blind you coming out of their spots.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 29, 2017)

mauvais said:


> It transpires that it was the result of a police chase involving a stolen car. Fortunately noone was seriously injured.
> 
> The car on the right with people stood around is the stolen car, a Saab 9-3. The other two, the Mazda and the Audi up the wall, were merely parked. Still can't quite fathom the physics of it.



Coppers 'solving' the problem of one stolen car by getting into some damn fool chase leading to the destruction of the stolen vehicle plus serious damage to two other cars, part of the road, a wall and someone's house.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 13, 2018)

A van driver pulled a triathlete from her bike, leaving her with a bone fracture in the pelvic region and cuts and bruises to her lower back and head - six-month suspended sentence.

Road rage man pulled triathlete off bike


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 16, 2018)




----------



## T & P (Jan 16, 2018)

I was coming here to post that ^ 

This link includes footage of the actual 'jump'. Top marks to that driver

Dashcam captures car in flight


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 16, 2018)

T & P said:


> I was coming here to post that ^
> 
> This link includes footage of the actual 'jump'. Top marks to that driver
> 
> Dashcam captures car in flight




GTA come to life


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 16, 2018)

That's a work of art. They should leave it there and fix the hole in the wall around it.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 25, 2018)

Referencing earlier posts about people abusing emergency services in the course of saving peoples lives Paramedic shouted at while trying to save patient's life


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 25, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> That's a work of art. They should leave it there and fix the hole in the wall around it.



Yes its like that guy who used to have a shark in his roof in Oxford.






Edit: It turns out its still there. 

The Headington Shark - Wikipedia


----------



## BigTom (Jan 26, 2018)

Man with 62 points on his licence allowed to keep on driving

62 penalty points and allowed to continue to drive. So many people get 12 points and plead hardship and get to keep their licence. This has to stop.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 26, 2018)

BigTom said:


> Man with 62 points on his licence allowed to keep on driving
> 
> 62 penalty points and allowed to continue to drive. So many people get 12 points and plead hardship and get to keep their licence. This has to stop.


It's probably very prejudiced of me, but every time I see a quote from a representative of "Brake" in an article like this, it immediately makes me suspicious. I get the impression that, if they could, they'd bring back the Man With The Red Flag.

I have no idea why someone can rack up 62 points and still be driving, but that must have involved a lot of court appearances and a lot of judges/magistrates, so it's obviously not going to be one of those "give the judge a funny salute and walk out scot free" situations. And it's probably quite appropriate that some degree of confidentiality is necessary, even in such an extreme case.

I've heard stories of people who got over 12 points but managed to keep their licences because a combination of the importance of their job/role and the absence of any alternatives meant that the judge had, at their own discretion, allowed them to keep on driving, but that article says that Greater London is over-represented amongst 12+point drivers, which does seem odd, given that Greater London has a public transport system that you'd think would obviate the absolute need for someone to drive.

*shrug* I reckon there's a lot more to this story than we can ever know.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 26, 2018)

existentialist said:


> It's probably very prejudiced of me, but every time I see a quote from a representative of "Brake" in an article like this, it immediately makes me suspicious. I get the impression that, if they could, they'd bring back the Man With The Red Flag.
> 
> I have no idea why someone can rack up 62 points and still be driving, but that must have involved a lot of court appearances and a lot of judges/magistrates, so it's obviously not going to be one of those "give the judge a funny salute and walk out scot free" situations. And it's probably quite appropriate that some degree of confidentiality is necessary, even in such an extreme case.
> 
> ...



Fuckem. If you're a shit enough driver to rack up 12 points you should not be on the road. No alternatives? Going to fuck up your life if you can't drive? You shouldn't have driven like a cunt then should you.
I think judges have used that discretion far too often and they should not be allowed to use it anymore.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 26, 2018)

BigTom said:


> Fuckem. If you're a shit enough driver to rack up 12 points you should not be on the road. No alternatives? Going to fuck up your life if you can't drive? You shouldn't have driven like a cunt then should you.
> I think judges have used that discretion far too often and they should not be allowed to use it anymore.


It's my bleeding heart liberal tendencies coming out again...


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 26, 2018)

Kill a cyclist on a roundabout: 250 hours’ unpaid work and a three-month curfew.

Driver who killed cyclist on roundabout near Bristol avoids jail


----------



## a_chap (Jan 26, 2018)

"he braked before hitting a cyclist who appeared in front of him"

So, the guy on the bike just "appeared" in front of him. FFS.


----------



## dervish (Jan 26, 2018)

a_chap said:


> "he braked before hitting a cyclist who appeared in front of him"
> 
> So, the guy on the bike just "appeared" in front of him. FFS.



Appeared in front of him in hi vis, noticed by the person behind him, but "just appeared". Wanker.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 26, 2018)

existentialist said:


> It's probably very prejudiced of me, but every time I see a quote from a representative of "Brake" in an article like this, it immediately makes me suspicious. I get the impression that, if they could, they'd bring back the Man With The Red Flag.


Yes, Brake are like this. Whereas the IAM and the like believe in a sort of technocratic driver improvement, Brake believe that drivers need to be controlled through regulation & authority. Both are to some extent folly in their own ways. I think Brake comes from a good place, and IIRC has its roots in tragedy, but ends up being factually clueless. The media love them because their message is simpler than the complexities of becoming a better driver.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jan 26, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> Driver who killed cyclist on roundabout near Bristol avoids jail



''...*Bridges had told the jury he made proper checks *after he exited the M48 from the junction one slip road at Aust. But he failed to see Mr Brown, who was wearing a high visibility jacket and cycle helmet, and knocked him off his bike on the roundabout.''

FWIW I think he was fibbing.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 26, 2018)

BigTom said:


> Fuckem. If you're a shit enough driver to rack up 12 points you should not be on the road. No alternatives? Going to fuck up your life if you can't drive? You shouldn't have driven like a cunt then should you.
> I think judges have used that discretion far too often and they should not be allowed to use it anymore.



It's just the inconsistency of it all.  If you get caught for drink driving the only discretion the magistrate has is how much longer than 12 months the ban should last.  Its a minimum of 12 months regardless of the justification / sob story - they have no choice.  Yet here we have someone with a clear total disregard for the law and road safety but is allowed to carry on driving.  It basically says that the laws are around speeding are flexible and its not that big a deal to be caught.

In a roundabout way I am a professional driver in that I spend a lot of time on the road visiting clients. I do a lot of miles but not compared to some people in my company who can easily do 5k-6k per month, yet none of us collect speeding tickets like stamps.  Given how few traffic cops there are and how many cameras are actually switched on at any time its actually quite unusual to get caught, so to have accrued 60 odd points is quite something in itself before you consider he is allowed to keep driving.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 26, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> ''...*Bridges had told the jury he made proper checks *after he exited the M48 from the junction one slip road at Aust. But he failed to see Mr Brown, who was wearing a high visibility jacket and cycle helmet, and knocked him off his bike on the roundabout.''
> 
> FWIW I think he was fibbing.


It's possible - there are various factors through which you can look and not see things, such as saccades, or a combination of A-pillar and approach angle. I have no idea if any of those apply in this case.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 26, 2018)

mauvais said:


> It's possible - there are various factors through which you can look and not see things, such as saccades, or a combination of A-pillar and approach angle. I have no idea if any of those apply in this case.



Its hard to prove otherwise though.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 26, 2018)

BigTom said:


> Fuckem. If you're a shit enough driver to rack up 12 points you should not be on the road. No alternatives? Going to fuck up your life if you can't drive? You shouldn't have driven like a cunt then should you.
> I think judges have used that discretion far too often and they should not be allowed to use it anymore.



Totally agreed, I've been driving for almost 40 years & have never picked-up any points, I can understand someone picking-up a few now & again, but over 12 is simply not on.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 26, 2018)

There's far worse...Boy, 15, detained for car crash deaths

Stolen car doing 88 mph in a 20 mph zone, kills three children and two adults = four years prison. He's only 15 himself, but fuck sake, come on.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 26, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> ''...*Bridges had told the jury he made proper checks *after he exited the M48 from the junction one slip road at Aust. But he failed to see Mr Brown, who was wearing a high visibility jacket and cycle helmet, and knocked him off his bike on the roundabout.''
> 
> FWIW I think he was fibbing.





mauvais said:


> It's possible - there are various factors through which you can look and not see things, such as saccades, or a combination of A-pillar and approach angle. I have no idea if any of those apply in this case.



Had he made PROPER checks he would have seen the cyclist. If he checked at all it was a cursory check, (which we all make from time to time), and was not proper enough to see the cyclist.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Yes its like that guy who used to have a shark in his roof in Oxford.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My sister-in-law lived in that house for a while.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 26, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Had he made PROPER checks he would have seen the cyclist. If he checked at all it was a cursory check, (which we all make from time to time), and was not proper enough to see the cyclist.


Yes, it's all avoidable. Worth understanding some of the potential pitfalls though.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 26, 2018)

mauvais said:


> Yes, it's all avoidable. Worth understanding some of the potential pitfalls though.



I love cars and driving, but am getting increasing pissed off at the language that surrounds driving; "The car was doing 80mph", "The motorbike appeared from nowhere" and so on. It's language designed to remove the blame and is used everywhere when some fucker kills someone cos they were driving wantonly.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 26, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I love cars and driving, but am getting increasing pissed off at the language that surrounds driving; "The car was doing 80mph", "The motorbike appeared from nowhere" and so on. It's language designed to remove the blame and is used everywhere when some fucker kills someone cos they were driving wantonly.



Yep, like this on twitter from the fucking police:



("#JAILED Kade Scrivens is going to prison after his car collided with a cyclist who sadly died from his injuries.")

Cos it was his car that collided, not him as a driver. Presumably his car drove off afterwards as well, not him. 
(Man jailed after crashing into cyclist and leaving him to die is the story if anyone wants to read it. He got 7.5years in prison for this hit and run which is not a bad sentence compared to a lot of driving convictions. The express and star has done a petition about short sentences following this case and another similar one, but for me these are not even bad sentences, not like the one posted just above)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 31, 2018)

A phenomenon I've noticed cropping up more often is delivery/trade vans with reversing sirens, or rather speakers that emit horrible, nerve-shredding little bursts of static noise. Obviously these thingies or versions of them have been fitted on HGV's for ages now, but I don't have a problem with that because for one thing reversing HGV's must be very difficult and potentially danerous and for another they're not usually parking up in residential areas.

Vans though, well it is the driver's responsibility to reverse without hitting anyone not the general public's responsibility to get out of the way. Those with hearing problems may not hear the siren, those with mobility problems may not be able to evade the reversing vehicle in time when they do. At best the siren will do no good to anyone, at worst it will make drivers less likely to pay attention to where they're going.

I drive a van. It has no reversing siren. So far I've killed zero people while reversing, and no bloody awful racket was required to achieve this.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 31, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> A phenomenon I've noticed cropping up more often is delivery/trade vans with reversing sirens, or rather speakers that emit horrible, nerve-shredding little bursts of static noise. Obviously these thingies or versions of them have been fitted on HGV's for ages now, but I don't have a problem with that because for one thing reversing HGV's must be very difficult and potentially danerous and for another they're not usually parking up in residential areas.
> 
> Vans though, well it is the driver's responsibility to reverse without hitting anyone not the general public's responsibility to get out of the way. Those with hearing problems may not hear the siren, those with mobility problems may not be able to evade the reversing vehicle in time when they do. At best the siren will do no good to anyone, at worst it will make drivers less likely to pay attention to where they're going.
> 
> I drive a van. It has no reversing siren. So far I've killed zero people while reversing, and no bloody awful racket was required to achieve this.



If you drive van you'll know that its got no rear view mirror just wing mirrors, as such there is a large blind spot directly behind it which a car doesn't have.  Obviously if any driver uses the alarm instead of looking than they are dick but fundamentally I don't think its a bad idea.  Its like wearing hi-viz, most of the time its pointless but if it saves just one life or one serious injury etc.......


----------



## mojo pixy (Jan 31, 2018)

I have to drive a van with a big blind spot directly behind and no reverse alarm. If I'm reversing I check the wing mirrors and over the shoulder then stick it in reverse and rev the engine loud a couple of times with the clutch down, as an audible warning I'm about to move. Then take a couple of seconds to check again and complete the reverse really really slowly, eyes on the wing mirrors every moment. So far, so good


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 31, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> If you drive van you'll know that its got no rear view mirror just wing mirrors, as such there is a large blind spot directly behind it which a car doesn't have.  Obviously if any driver uses the alarm instead of looking than they are dick but fundamentally I don't think its a bad idea.  Its like wearing hi-viz, most of the time its pointless but if it saves just one life or one serious injury etc.......



As I van driver, I was just going to post exactly that.


----------



## T & P (Feb 1, 2018)

Now that cameras on vehicles with live video feed to the driver have become both commonplace and perfectly affordable, why has no country made any moves to make them compulsory on vans and trucks? It seems criminal not to...


----------



## hash tag (Feb 1, 2018)

For filming the driver to ensure they are not using a phone etc. while driving or the road ahead to check lane positioning etc.
tachographs already keep track of speed and many Lorry's are restricted anyway.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 2, 2018)

T & P said:


> Now that cameras on vehicles with live video feed to the driver have become both commonplace and perfectly affordable, why has no country made any moves to make them compulsory on vans and trucks? It seems criminal not to...



Won't someone think of the cost to UK business......

Because of the slow moving car crash that is Brexit and the government's stated aim that it mustn't cost business money there is zero chance of them doing anything which might be seen as lumbering business before this is all resolved.  They're quite simply paralysed.


----------



## T & P (Feb 2, 2018)

hash tag said:


> For filming the driver to ensure they are not using a phone etc. while driving or the road ahead to check lane positioning etc.
> tachographs already keep track of speed and many Lorry's are restricted anyway.


Rear facing cameras with a live video screen to the driver, so lorry and van drivers can see what's behind them when they're reversing. Ditto blind spots on either side of the vehicle.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 2, 2018)

I get that, but have you ever looked at an artic? If you look carefully, the invariably have a different number plate on the tractor from the trailer because they are so interchangeable and I guess the technology could be different.
For solid lorry's a great idea though.


----------



## dervish (Feb 2, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I get that, but have you ever looked at an artic? If you look carefully, the invariably have a different number plate on the tractor from the trailer because they are so interchangeable and I guess the technology could be different.
> For solid lorry's a great idea though.



Surely that's illegal? How can you have a different number on the back from the front?


----------



## hash tag (Feb 2, 2018)

90%+ of foreign registered trucks have a different plate on the tractor when compared to the tralier. It is a high percentage for British registered ones.
If you are unlucky enough to get in a scrape with one, always get the number from the cab, never the trailer.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 2, 2018)

Driving up the M1 this evening, I saw a Dutch transit style van towing a trailer. It had 2 different registrations.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 23, 2018)

I suppose this might as well go here. Driver avoids ban for drink driving because the quarter of a mile long driveway of their mansion is too long for them to walk. 

Drink-driver's 'long driveway' court plea


----------



## blairsh (Feb 23, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> I have to drive a van with a big blind spot directly behind and no reverse alarm. If I'm reversing I check the wing mirrors and over the shoulder then stick it in reverse and rev the engine loud a couple of times with the clutch down, as an audible warning I'm about to move. Then take a couple of seconds to check again and complete the reverse really really slowly, eyes on the wing mirrors every moment. So far, so good


Can you not get blindspot mirrors? Sure you can get a cheap stick on effort for your van


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 23, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Driver avoids ban for drink driving because the quarter of a mile long driveway of their mansion is too long for them to walk.
> 
> Drink-driver's 'long driveway' court plea



 She was banned for two years.


> She denied drink driving but was banned for two years after being convicted at Stockport Magistrates' Court.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 23, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> She was banned for two years.



Doh! I blame my poor reading comprehension on sleep-deprivation. She did get let off the community service because she's never done a day's work in her life (I just read this as getting off the driving ban too). Not sure some people I've known over the years in the same position would get away with that argument.


----------



## twentythreedom (Feb 23, 2018)

I probably would


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 24, 2018)

Odd thing is she can still legally drive up her driveway as it is private land.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 28, 2018)

Lets hope it wasn't their mother, father, son, daughter that needed the help. Fury after ambulance on 999 call blocked in by 'inconsiderate driver'


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 28, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Lets hope it wasn't their mother, father, son, daughter that needed the help. Fury after ambulance on 999 call blocked in by 'inconsiderate driver'



Unbelievable.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 3, 2018)

You thought that was bad. Speechless Paramedic attacked in 'parking row'


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 3, 2018)

That's more about pisspoor 'human standards' than 'driving standards'.


----------



## T & P (Mar 3, 2018)

As a daily user of Albert Bridge in Chelsea, i’m getting increasingly pissed off with the countless twerps who get stuck between the width restriction posts at each end, or who take absurd amounts of time to negotiate them.

If you’re not confident enough to drive through them without taking ten seconds, fuck off to the next bridge, which is all of a third of a mile away.

It can take 10+ minutes of queues to get to cross the bridge thanks to these clowns; not to mention drivers of vans and trucks who fail to see the numerous width restriction signs and get their vehicle wedged in, rendering the bridge unusable for the next few hours.


----------



## nick (Mar 4, 2018)

This thread seems to have moved on from interesting parking - so I give you this, seen today outside Ruislip Aldi:
2 bays for the disabled straddled whilst parked up having a fag. but what is even worse than that and the personalised plate is the fact that the Range Rover is in white


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Mar 4, 2018)

nick said:


> This thread seems to have moved on from interesting parking - so I give you this, seen today outside Ruislip Aldi:
> 2 bays for the disabled straddled whilst parked up having a fag. but what is even worse than that and the personalised plate is the fact that the Range Rover is in white
> View attachment 129294


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 4, 2018)

arsehole


----------



## T & P (Mar 6, 2018)

I've just had a bit of a close shave thanks to a pair of racing scumbags. I was on my scooter on Streatham Hill near the Brixton Hill End, where each direction is two lanes plus a bus lane, so as wide as you could expect for an urban street. I was doing just under 30 on the 'slow' lane when I heard the unmistakable sound of a very fast-approaching car. A couple of seconds later an Audi and a BMW passed me no futher than a metre away doing at least 60 mph. At least. 

It's good job I was going true and straight, or I would have been rammed into the stratosphere and torn into chunks. As it was I was left shaken and furious. Pair of fucking cunts.


----------



## jusali (Mar 7, 2018)

Audi and BMW huh?


----------



## hash tag (Mar 7, 2018)

Lamposts do not get out of the way 

'Real-life Ferris Bueller' wrecks uncle's £180,000 Ferrari in crash


----------



## hash tag (Mar 7, 2018)

Idiot drivers exposed


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 8, 2018)

That's extraordinary.  Its an auto I guess but how can someone with that little understanding of driving have a licence?  I expected some doddery 90 year old to be behind the wheel but it doesn't look like it.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Mar 8, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> That's extraordinary.  Its an auto I guess but how can someone with that little understanding of driving have a licence?  I expected some doddery 90 year old to be behind the wheel but it doesn't look like it.


I strongly doubt that driver has a licence.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 10, 2018)

Is this Bahnhof Strasse caught on film again?
Audi driver smashes into car after cutting in front on roundabout | Metro News


----------



## bimble (Mar 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Idiot drivers exposed



oh wow. I've been scared to look at this thread but this is making me feel better about my own skillz. I am a better driver than her.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 10, 2018)

Hi bimble as someone who is newly passed and must remember stuff from there lessons, who is right and who is wrong in the Metro clip above?


----------



## bimble (Mar 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Hi bimble as someone who is newly passed and must remember stuff from there lessons, who is right and who is wrong in the Metro clip above?


See this is why I shouldn't look at this thread. I am constantly imagining that everyone is about to do stuff like this, which makes me a bad driver. The right hand lane & inner circle of roundabouts is only for when you're turning right.. but people do change their minds a lot and are too lazy/impatient to just go round again.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Hi bimble as someone who is newly passed and must remember stuff from there lessons, who is right and who is wrong in the Metro clip above?



The red car is wrong cos it is not an Audi.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Is this Bahnhof Strasse caught on film again?
> Audi driver smashes into car after cutting in front on roundabout | Metro News



Sadly not, my kuntwagon was in the garage this week so I was tearing around in an Aygo.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 10, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The red car is wrong cos it is not an Audi.


----------



## Almor (Mar 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Idiot drivers exposed




I was watching that thinking it was a pretty special approach to parking, bit of a boring video 'but at least they haven't hit anything yet'


----------



## hash tag (Mar 10, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Sadly not, my kuntwagon was in the garage this week so I was tearing around in an Aygo.



Was that why or was it a mechanical?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Was that why or was it a mechanical?



Frau Bahn parked it up the arse of a copper’s car, so it needed some work doing to put that right...


----------



## 2hats (Mar 10, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Frau Bahn parked it up the arse of a copper’s car, so it needed some work doing to put that right...


Yes, but I think ht asked about the car?


----------



## hash tag (Mar 10, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Frau Bahn parked it up the arse of a copper’s car, so it needed some work doing to put that right...



Always blame the wife! A coppers car; off duty, plain clothes or full on marked police car?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Always blame the wife! A coppers car; off duty, plain clothes or full on marked police car?



Off duty, was heading to work. Still got a new bonnet out of it, BB1 had scratched the old one, so not all bad.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 11, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Is this Bahnhof Strasse caught on film again?
> Audi driver smashes into car after cutting in front on roundabout | Metro News


The painted direction arrows (without e.g. 'TURN RIGHT') have no legal meaning, i.e. ignoring them is not in itself an offence, although if a copper saw you do it it might be filed under DWDCA. So at that roundabout if the Focus was indicating and turning left it would be legal, if ill advised, to also turn left into the second lane.

Needless to say exiting a roundabout across someone is a whopping great big error regardless so it makes little difference.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 11, 2018)

Regardless, Audi's always do what they want because they think they own the road and others should just revolve around them!


----------



## twentythreedom (Mar 11, 2018)

That's because we actually do own the road


----------



## rubbershoes (Mar 12, 2018)

bimble said:


> oh wow. I've been scared to look at this thread but this is making me feel better about my own skillz. I am a better driver than her.



The best bit is when she gets out half way through to check how she's doing


----------



## Enviro (Mar 12, 2018)

bimble said:


> ...I am constantly imagining that everyone is about to do stuff like this, which makes me a bad driver. ..



I disagree. Anticipating idiots is a very important skill to be a good driver.

You shouldn't be over defensive, of course, but looking out for people who are less careful is essential.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 12, 2018)

Taking what Enviro says a stage further for you bimble and this could be perfect for you Advanced driving and riding courses | IAM RoadSmart

They will look at your weak spots, help with skills and confidence and more.


----------



## bimble (Mar 12, 2018)

Yep am considering that hash tag , definitely want a motorway lesson before I go on one, and I sort of miss my instructor.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 13, 2018)

IAM, not cheap, but friendly and convenient enough, will have a look at your driving and will offer advice on it. They will include town driving, country roads, motorways etc. 
They will help greatly with confidence.
i am sure they will Have a chat and explain more if asked.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Mar 13, 2018)

hash tag said:


> IAM, not cheap, but friendly and convenient enough, will have a look at your driving and will offer advice on it. They will include town driving, country roads, motorways etc.
> They will help greatly with confidence.
> i am sure they will Have a chat and explain more if asked.


Or just buy a dash cam, post footage here, and U75 regulars will happily “have a look at your driving and offer advice on it”.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 13, 2018)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Or just buy a dash cam, post footage here, and U75 regulars will happily “have a look at your driving and offer advice on it”.



I think the £2000 these cost would be money well spent in this case...


----------



## mauvais (Mar 13, 2018)

I went through the IAM school of leather-gloved gentlemen, it has its issues but I would conditionally recommend it. One for after about a year of driving experience, once you've formed some habits but before you're stuck in your ways.

I will have written more about IAM on here before, do a search if you're interested.


----------



## T & P (Mar 16, 2018)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Or just buy a dash cam, post footage here, and U75 regulars will happily “have a look at your driving and offer advice on it”.


On a slightly related theme, these tracking devices some insurers are inviting drivers to fit in their cars to get discounts on their premium if they are shown to be good drivers... Not that I'd ever get one myself, but I wonder if the insurers can also use it to actually increase a driver's premium if they deem their driving to be bad enough.

It seems a terrible idea to let your insurer monitor your every move, at least for the great majority of us drivers who will break the speed limit regularly, even if only marginally. And I can't imagine how a tracking device can judge how good a driver is other than by checking speed limit observance.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 17, 2018)

I believe they have used them to revoke/decline insurance because of bad driving. If that happens to you as a young driver it's bad news for getting any further insurance.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 17, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I believe they have used them to revoke/decline insurance because of bad driving. If that happens to you as a young driver it's bad news for getting any further insurance.


Though good news for everyone else as it keeps a bad driver off the road…

Self-driving cars can’t arrive soon enough.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 17, 2018)

T & P said:


> And I can't imagine how a tracking device can judge how good a driver is other than by checking speed limit observance.



It's a combination of things, including speed, braking & acceleration - 



> Your Driver Score is calculated on several key factors, the most important of which are the following:
> 
> *Braking *
> If you brake harshly, it can indicate several things about the way you were driving. For example, harsh braking could indicate that you may have been travelling too closely to the car in front to react safely to changing traffic conditions.
> ...


 


hash tag said:


> I believe they have used them to revoke/decline insurance because of bad driving. If that happens to you as a young driver it's bad news for getting any further insurance.



You do get warnings before any policy is cancelled, so it's down to the driver to improve:


> *Red Alerts *
> If your Driver Score falls below our acceptable limit we’ll let you know by sending you an email. This would mean you’d need to make changes to the way you drive in order to improve your score. You can log in to the Driver app or portal for advice and tips on how to do this. However if you don’t manage to improve and your Driver Score continues below an acceptable level, you’ll receive another Red Alert from us.
> 
> If you get three Red Alerts it means we consider you to be an unsafe driver, and as such will send you a letter or email notification informing you we can no longer insure you and are going to cancel your policy. During this notice period you will need to find an alternative insurance provider. If we have to cancel your policy this could affect your ability to get insurance in the future.
> ...



Your RAC Black Box Driver Score | RAC


----------



## hash tag (Mar 17, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I sort of heard this the other night and it sounded interesting. There are differing conditions, around the world the cars are having difficulty coping with; foxes, kangaroos.....they also discuss issues with the law and insurance
> 
> BBC Radio 4 - Law in Action, Driverless Cars and the Law


----------



## T & P (Mar 17, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's a combination of things, including speed, braking & acceleration -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, basically, fuck that for a laugh


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 17, 2018)

My insurer sent us one of those to stick in the car for three months, the result was we were rated as very safe, but can't remember what the consequence was for premiums, they've been decreasing the last couple of years. I only drive it about once a month and are pretty good at sticking to speed limits, it wobbles a bit above seventy anyway.


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 17, 2018)

I had a feeling it also worked partly on the time of day you drove, so you'd get marked down if you were regularly out at 2am on a weekend - our policy is also 'domestic and leisure' excluding commuting, so it might have been them checking up on this.


----------



## T & P (Mar 18, 2018)

I don't know if you live in London, but given the number of vast 20 mph areas that include certain main roads on which about 98% of drivers go over that limit, the insurers are probably having a field day with London drivers fitted with those devices. Unless they give them a bit of leeway on such situations.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 19, 2018)

Insurers, give leeway, why, when they can jack premiums up. Give em an inch....

Would you argue with a fireman? Special. 
Driver hurls abuse at firefighters after he parked across their drive


----------



## Almor (Mar 19, 2018)

So, modern speed bumps, the plastic ones, it's possible to drive over them at the speed limit without damaging a car?

I've been behind a few cars recently slowing almost to a stop for them which seems excessive


----------



## existentialist (Mar 19, 2018)

Almor said:


> So, modern speed bumps, the plastic ones, it's possible to drive over them at the speed limit without damaging a car?
> 
> I've been behind a few cars recently slowing almost to a stop for them which seems excessive


I've yet to find any speed bump it was possible to drive over at the posted limit without an excessive level of bouncing around. But some are exceptionally vicious.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2018)

Almor said:


> So, modern speed bumps, the plastic ones, it's possible to drive over them at the speed limit without damaging a car?
> 
> I've been behind a few cars recently slowing almost to a stop for them which seems excessive



 They're not supposed to be driven over at the maximum speed limit.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 19, 2018)

If your car has low ground clearance or stiff suspension, you will want to traverse them carefully.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Mar 19, 2018)

Almor said:


> I've been behind a few cars recently slowing almost to a stop for them which seems excessive


That's the idea of speed bumps. They're not substitutes for a fairground ride


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 19, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I've yet to find any speed bump it was possible to drive over at the posted limit without an excessive level of bouncing around. But some are exceptionally vicious.



The speed humps around here need you to drop to 20 mph, despite the 30 mph limit, to be comfortable & avoid damage to your own vehicle.

I miss having a company car.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 19, 2018)

mauvais said:


> If your car has low ground clearance or stiff suspension, you will want to traverse them carefully.


Mine's (Celica, so quite low and quite a firm ride) definitely less forgiving than Mrs E's C3, although that feels as if it's about to do the Clown Car Impression if you do any more than "proceed" over them.


----------



## a_chap (Mar 19, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I've yet to find any speed bump it was possible to drive over at the posted limit without an excessive level of bouncing around. But some are exceptionally vicious.



I used to own a Citroen Dyane which, by design, had no damping on the suspension. When you hit a bump at speed the wheel would literally bounce off the ground.

So you could drive over speed humps at 30mph and - literally (again) - not feel them at all 

The _ever so slight_ downside was that if you hit a bump whilst cornering the car tended to go straight on...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Mar 19, 2018)

a_chap said:


> I used to own a Citroen Dyane which, by design, had no damping on the suspension. When you hit a bump at speed the wheel would literally bounce off the ground.
> 
> So you could drive over speed humps at 30mph and - literally (again) - not feel them at all
> 
> The _ever so slight_ downside was that if you hit a bump whilst cornering the car tended to go straight on...


I'm pretty sure they did have shock absorbers/dampers. They were just a very strange suspension setup.
We used to race a few of them (2CVs and Dyanes) on a motocross track back in the 80s. They were great fun


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## a_chap (Mar 19, 2018)

I'm simply repeating what the local 2CV enthusiasts (who used to service it for me) said. Apparently it had great slabs of cast iron instead of proper damping ("beateurs")


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## mauvais (Mar 19, 2018)

It had mass dampers instead of hydraulic ones, so nothing you would think of as a shock absorber now. It was pretty soft though.


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## hash tag (Mar 23, 2018)

Oh dear Woman who left note on ambulance and gave neighbours 'hell' removed from home


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## hash tag (Mar 26, 2018)

It's not a 4x4. It's an Audi...i wonder if it's anyone we know? Car smashes into home as family watches TV 

Bahnhof Strasse?


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## planetgeli (Apr 6, 2018)

Cool driving bro.

Man, 73, smashes Porsche through wall


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## T & P (Apr 6, 2018)

They don't make walls like they used to.


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## a_chap (Apr 8, 2018)

Liz Kershaw not getting the sympathy she was expecting:


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## hash tag (Apr 8, 2018)

The law is the law is the law. What makes her so entitled that she is exempted from it.
36 in a 30 is points as opposed to speed awareness?


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## Spymaster (Apr 8, 2018)

hash tag said:


> The law is the law is the law. What makes her so entitled that she is exempted from it.
> 36 in a 30 is points as opposed to speed awareness?


The SACs are discretionary so they're not always offered. Maybe she's pissed someone off or already done a course in the last 5 years.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 8, 2018)

so not only does she do that shit DJ thing of talking over an intro RIGHT till the first vocal starts (and also does the same for outros) she's also a speeder. And a professional northener. I'm donning the black cap here


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## hash tag (Apr 8, 2018)

The leeway is greater than I thought. I thought it was up to 5 maybe 10% over the limit. Speed Awareness Course Eligibility - Speed Awareness Course
What's The betting she's been done before.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 8, 2018)

The advice given from chief plods is 10% + 2mph, so up to 35 you don’t get done at all, (unless there are other factors in which case you can of course be done for 30.1 mph).

36 is points or a course, can only do one course every three years and not all forces offer courses (City of London being one that doesn’t).

So the shit DJ needs to suck it up.


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## hash tag (Apr 8, 2018)

There's me thinking she drives an Audi and you were coming in to support a fellow Audi driver


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 8, 2018)

hash tag said:


> There's me thinking she drives an Audi and you were coming in to support a fellow Audi driver



No idea what she drives, certainly lacks the style and sophistication to drive a real Audi, would probably opt for a Q3 or some such pile of shite.


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## dervish (Apr 9, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The advice given from chief plods is 10% + 2mph, so up to 35 you don’t get done at all, (unless there are other factors in which case you can of course be done for 30.1 mph).



In my speed awareness course they made quite a point that the 10% is entirely discretionary, he told us that a lot of gantry cameras have no buffer zone and you'd be pretty stupid to rely on it. It was only due to the fact that old speedos weren't very reliable, now they are much more so, so less need for a 10% bugger zone.


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## mauvais (Apr 9, 2018)

It's discretionary but noone gets done for less. Occasionally people claim to have been done for 31, 71, etc, but noone ever evidences it.


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## hash tag (Apr 9, 2018)

Done you just love the people who complain through the press....ive been driving for 25 years and this is my first offence etc.
what they probably mean is they have never been caught before


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## Poi E (Apr 10, 2018)

You do the crime you do the time. Bloody snowflakes.


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## dervish (Apr 10, 2018)

mauvais said:


> It's discretionary but noone gets done for less. Occasionally people claim to have been done for 31, 71, etc, but noone ever evidences it.



It came up because someone had been done on a gantry cam at 2mph over.


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

dervish said:


> It came up because someone had been done on a gantry cam at 2mph over.


I'll stick a tenner in the server fund if someone can provide a copy of a NIP that shows this.

A few authorities are talking about removing the leeway but I don't think anyone's done it.


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## T & P (Apr 10, 2018)

I rented a new-ish VW Polo last week and there was a 3 mph discrepancy between the traditional speedometer and the electronic display one. I don't buy for a second that speedometer technology is now infallible, certainly when talking about 2 mph differences.

FWIW I myself doubt most of these 'been done for going 2 mph over the limit' stories are true, but it would certainly be a cunt's trick to fine people for such a ludicrously small margin. It would also be counterproductive as far safety is concerned of course.


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## bimble (Apr 10, 2018)

As a new driver it’s been a bit of a revelation that almost nobody seems to actually take any notice of the speed limit, whether it’s on 20mph roads or on motorways. I honestly thought speed limits were a real thing until now. People seem to know where the cameras are and just drive accordingly.


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## T & P (Apr 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> As a new driver it’s been a bit of a revelation that almost nobody seems to actually take any notice of the speed limit, whether it’s on 20mph roads or on motorways. I honestly thought speed limits were a real thing until now. People seem to know where the cameras are and just drive accordingly.


Despite some people being complete idiots at the wheel, the majority of drivers are actually competent enough to judge an appropriate speed based on the circumstances. The motoring laws however are inflexible and often err on the ultra cautious, so it is not surprising that most drivers will exceed the speed limits on some roads and in some circumstances to some degree.

Going 5-10 mph (and sometimes more, but I will not get into that now) over the 70 mph limit on motorways can be perfectly safe, or pretty much as reasonably safe as doing 70 mph. Ditto main urban roads that have been recently slapped a 20 mph limit that is so laughably inappropriate, it is no surprise virtually 100% of all drivers ignore it. You will soon eventually, I suspect. And in the right circumstances, there will be absolutely nothing wrong with that.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 10, 2018)

I would venture that the people who claim to have been done 2mph over in fact mean that they were 2mph over the 10% + 2mph, 37 in a 30 kind of thing.


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## cybershot (Apr 10, 2018)

Got a dash cam now so may upload some footage. Right pleb yesterday who was in left lane (a turn left only lane at the island) to do a right, weaving in and out of traffic then ploughs through a red light. 

Sadly WMP don't have a system up yet to accept dashcam footage, will prob upload it to Youtube as private, and leave it up to them if they want to do anything or not. Probably won't.


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## Spymaster (Apr 10, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I would venture that the people who claim to have been done 2mph over in fact mean that they were 2mph over the 10% + 2mph, 37 in a 30 kind of thing.


I'm not so sure. On one of my SACs the bloke told everyone to hold up their hands when he mentioned the over-limit number they were done for. He then counted backwards from 15. Most people were, unsurprisingly, between 5 and 10 over but a few hands did go up at 3 and 4.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 10, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> I'm not so sure. On one of my SACs the bloke told everyone to hold up their hands when he mentioned the over-limit number they were done for. He then counted backwards from 15. Most people were, unsurprisingly, between 5 and 10 over but a few hands did go up at 3 and 4.



We didn't do this at mine, but I did notice that the room represented a broad cross-section of society, including of course a number of complete morons who didn't seem to understand a single thing that was said to them...


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## mojo pixy (Apr 10, 2018)

T & P said:


> ...Ditto main urban roads that have been recently slapped a 20 mph limit that is so laughably inappropriate, it is no surprise virtually 100% of all drivers ignore it. You will soon eventually, I suspect.



Hopefully not. I stick to 20mph limits and I'm always being beeped or overtaken by drivers who don't think I should bother.

Thing is, till you know why a 20mph zone was put on a stretch of road there's no way to judge how inappropriate it is.

Seems to me people just don't like driving slowly, even though it's proven again and again to be safer and result in better survival rates in the event of a crash. People still smoke fags and inject heroin too.

Cars should be made slower. There's no reason for a vehicle to be able to go 90mph when the highest legal speed on the roads is 70. They should also include fewer safety features, so that drivers feel _more_ vulnerable and therefore drive safer.


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> Thing is, till you know why a 20mph zone was put on a stretch of road there's no way to judge how inappropriate it is.


It's not for everyone but you could try advanced driving techniques such as 'looking with your eyes'.


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## hash tag (Apr 10, 2018)

^^^  20 MPH limits have to have repeater signs at regular intervals. Most of Lambeth, I believe is now 20. Whereas neighbouring Wandsworth, have 20 limits predominately where schools open on to the road and many side roads.



bimble said:


> As a new driver it’s been a bit of a revelation that almost nobody seems to actually take any notice of the speed limit, whether it’s on 20mph roads or on motorways. I honestly thought speed limits were a real thing until now. People seem to know where the cameras are and just drive accordingly.



Oh bimble you really don't start learning to drive until after you have passed your test; you have much to learn.

I think that most cars speedo's show 2 or 3 miles per hour under what they are actually doing; they don't want their cars to be known as being owned by people that regularly speed. Also it helps 
them with the fuel efficiency.

Most drivers don't see speeding as a crime; even after they have been caught several times. As per the quote from that DJ woman; why don't the police gone and catch proper criminals!

The bobbies were out in force today. They were out with hand held speed camera's on Putney Hill and did a double take on me, I guess they expected me to be speeding. They were also
out on Trinity Road checking the tax/insurance thing.


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## 2hats (Apr 10, 2018)

mauvais said:


> It's not for everyone but you could try advanced driving techniques such as 'looking with your eyes'.


Hard to see through garden/driveway walls, between parked cars, etc and spot small kids/family pets about to dart out into the road though (or the less able stumbling out), isn’t it? All residential areas should be 20mph (or 15mph) and respected as such, not just for reasons of safety but environmental noise as well.

I enjoy driving at 0-10mph below the limit (irrespective of the road/limit) whilst the pushy dickheads behind me fume. But roll on self-driving vehicles; I’ll willingly sacrifice my hobby.


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## cupid_stunt (Apr 10, 2018)

20mph in residential areas should be standard.


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## bimble (Apr 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> ^^^  20 MPH limits have to have repeater signs at regular intervals. Most of Lambeth, I believe is now 20. Whereas neighbouring Wandsworth, have 20 limits predominately where schools open on to the road and many side roads.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’ve been doing it too, already, when there’s a 20 limit on a long wide road with nothing going on, or just by mistake. But as a new driver I could lose my license if I get 6 points over these next two years, and that’s just two speedings isn’t it?
That’s what I don’t get why people are so consistently willing to take that risk.


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

2hats said:


> Hard to see through garden/driveway walls, between parked cars, etc and spot small kids/family pets about to dart out into the road though (or the less able stumbling out), isn’t it?


Sure. But you can see that these *potential* hazards exist, so you already know how to behave. The alternative is ultimately that you delegate your decision making to a crude number on a post, rather than taking responsibility for your behaviour at that moment in that environment.


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## hash tag (Apr 10, 2018)

Incidentally, do you not remember whilst driving up the motorway. If you were doing anything less than about 75, you would be overtaken, by virtually everyone!


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I think that most cars speedo's show 2 or 3 miles per hour under what they are actually doing; they don't want their cars to be known as being owned by people that regularly speed. Also it helps
> them with the fuel efficiency.


Much simpler than that. Under-reading is illegal, whereas over-reading is allowed up to whatever threshold is accepted. So if you make or integrate speedometers, you make them conservative to avoid being prosecuted or sued.


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## bimble (Apr 10, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Incidentally, do you not remember whilst driving up the motorway. If you were doing anything less than about 75, you would be overtaken, by virtually everyone!


That’s the day this whole thing dawned on me, that first motorway trip. Even google maps time of journey estimates are not based on speed limit but probably average actual speeds, leaving me always way behind estimated arrival time.


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## 2hats (Apr 10, 2018)

mauvais said:


> Sure. But you can see that these *potential* hazards exist, so you already know how to behave. The alternative is ultimately that you delegate your decision making to a crude number on a post, rather than taking responsibility for your behaviour at that moment in that environment.


No. You respect the 20 mph limit anyway *and* you still drive with care and attention, ready to stop at little notice and lowering speed to 10-15mph (or lower) where conditions (additional hazards) dictate.


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

2hats said:


> No. You respect the 20 mph limit anyway *and* you still drive with care and attention, ready to stop at little notice and lowering speed to 10-15mph (or lower) where conditions (additional hazards) dictate.


Again, behaving as you describe, you already know what the appropriate speed is - what use is the sign to you?

Going back to the post I originally replied to, if you're a competent driver, you don't need to know the history, KSI stats etc for a road in order to decide how to drive it - you need to actively look for hazards and other information and react. We understandably have speed limits because people suck at doing this honestly, dynamically & continuously. But if you _are_ doing it, which you easily can, you will have a very good idea whether the posted limit is appropriate.

Again, the alternative line of thinking is that the setter of the posted limit is beholden to some magical information that you cannot access, and this is not only total bollocks, but total bollocks that enables lazy, feckless driving.

'I drove into this pileup in the fog and killed a bunch of people, but I was doing the speed limit!'


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## 2hats (Apr 10, 2018)

mauvais said:


> Again, behaving as you describe, you already know what the appropriate speed is - what use is the sign to you?


The sign tells me that at or below this speed I don’t have to worry about getting an unwelcome gift in the post.

The sign is also there for other road users, which includes pedestrians, conveying an idea of what sort of conditions/behaviour to expect.


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

2hats said:


> The sign tells me that at or below this speed I don’t have to worry about getting an unwelcome gift in the post.
> 
> The sign is also there for other road users, which includes pedestrians, conveying an idea of what sort of conditions/behaviour to expect.


The (on average very low) chance of a NIP is why many of us comply, tbf, but it's not much to do with safety is it?

I don't think many non-driving road users take in much info about speed limits. I never did before I got a car. That information comes much more from the nature of the road environment, e.g. is there a pavement, lighting, armco etc


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## marty21 (Apr 10, 2018)

T & P said:


> I rented a new-ish VW Polo last week and there was a 3 mph discrepancy between the traditional speedometer and the electronic display one. I don't buy for a second that speedometer technology is now infallible, certainly when talking about 2 mph differences.
> 
> FWIW I myself doubt most of these 'been done for going 2 mph over the limit' stories are true, but it would certainly be a cunt's trick to fine people for such a ludicrously small margin. It would also be counterproductive as far safety is concerned of course.


I rented a VW Golf at the weekend , my current car , also a Golf is 15 years old , I did enjoy driving a new car , bit disconcerted about the automatic handbrake though  having had a roll-back hit another car ages after I parked on a hill last summer  I am now a bit  about parking on hills the automatic handbrake worked though


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## T & P (Apr 10, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> Thing is, till you know why a 20mph zone was put on a stretch of road there's no way to judge how inappropriate it is.


 The problem is in many areas is no longer a question of a stretch of road being limited to to 20mph afeter careful consideration due to its characteristics.

Nowadays you get entire city boroughs covering many square miles and comprising thousands of roads being slapped blanket 20 mph limits without any concessions or consideration to the local circumstances. And whereas for many many roads concerned such limit is welcome, sensible and justified, for others (namely a lot of the main thoroughfares) such limit is idiotic and an overkill of gigantic proportions. And it only results on many drivers who would normally always respect the speed limit to break it on those particular roads where a 20mph limit is completely unfit for purpose.



> Cars should be made slower. There's no reason for a vehicle to be able to go 90mph when the highest legal speed on the roads is 70. *They should also include fewer safety features, so that drivers feel more vulnerable and therefore drive safer.*


 That is probably the single most reckless suggestion I have ever heard about road safety


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

It's just a version of 'cars should have a spike on the steering wheel to make people drive carefully', forgetting amongst many things that for a long time (prior to the 1970s if not later), they effectively did have that, and noone gave a shit.


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## marty21 (Apr 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> As a new driver it’s been a bit of a revelation that almost nobody seems to actually take any notice of the speed limit, whether it’s on 20mph roads or on motorways. I honestly thought speed limits were a real thing until now. People seem to know where the cameras are and just drive accordingly.


I did get done in a 20mph zone last year  They introduced a 20 zone on part of the Lea Bridge Road from the Clapton Roundabout . It's a wide , busy  A road, so I'm still a bit wtf about it. I don't mind the 20 on my residential street . The cameras clearly work


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## 2hats (Apr 10, 2018)

mauvais said:


> The (on average very low) chance of a NIP is why many of us comply, tbf, but it's not much to do with safety is it?


Task offloading: insomuch as ignoring speed cameras, _safety_ vehicles, police to a degree, frees me up to concentrate more on the immediate dynamic environment approaching the region of maximal optical flow/vehicle proximity.


> I don't think many non-driving road users take in much info about speed limits. I never did before I got a car. That information comes much more from the nature of the road environment, e.g. is there a pavement, lighting, armco etc


I take in the entire environment, including the signage, when out for a stroll.


T & P said:


> And it only results on many drivers who would normally always respect the speed limit to break it on those particular roads where a 20mph limit is completely unfit for purpose.


The impatient shouldn’t be driving on public roads.


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## T & P (Apr 10, 2018)

marty21 said:


> I rented a VW Golf at the weekend , my current car , also a Golf is 15 years old , I did enjoy driving a new car , bit disconcerted about the automatic handbrake though  having had a roll-back hit another car ages after I parked on a hill last summer  I am now a bit  about parking on hills the automatic handbrake worked though


The automatic handbrake feature (I.e. to stop the car from rolling backwards) will be useful to many on manual cars. I myself haven't had any concerns with hilly starts since I gained some experience as a driver, but as learner/ new driver I was of course rather weary of starts on steep hills, in particular if there were cars behind me. 

The one thing I really don't like is the electric button handbrake rather than the traditional handle. I was glad the Polo I rented had the traditional set up. The button pisses me off no end.


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## hash tag (Apr 10, 2018)

mauvais said:


> It's just a version of 'cars should have a spike on the steering wheel to make people drive carefully', forgetting amongst many things that for a long time (prior to the 1970s if not later), they effectively did have that, and noone gave a shit.



What's the weakest point of a cat?
the nut behind the wheel.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> That’s the day this whole thing dawned on me, that first motorway trip. Even google maps time of journey estimates are not based on speed limit but probably average actual speeds, leaving me always way behind estimated arrival time.



You need to get a faster car then.


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## T & P (Apr 10, 2018)

2hats said:


> The impatient shouldn’t be driving on public roads.


It's not a question of impatience though, at least not with me. It is a question of applying common sense and achieving a sensible compromise according to the conditions and circumstances of the area. If you are not in favour of banning cars from cities altogether, you are de facto accepting that some lives will be lost as a result of the vehicle use in populated areas you are condoning.

I would wager that if a survey was carried out amongst people who support blanket 20mph limits asking them if they would support the limit being lowered to 5 mph, a majority of them would deem it too slow and vote against it. Would you describe such people as being impatient? At the end of the day a 5 mph limit would save so many more lives than a 20 limit...

I'm not saying I'm unequivocally right about my belief that 30 mph limits are the best for some trunk roads in cities, but I don't think is fair to dismiss anyone questioning a certain speed limit for being too low as impatient, or (as I've seen from others in past discussions) reckless, selfish or uncaring.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 10, 2018)

mauvais said:


> It's not for everyone but you could try advanced driving techniques such as 'looking with your eyes'.



I looked. The road was empty. The fact it's 3am is irrelevant, surely!


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## hash tag (Apr 10, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You need to get a faster car then.



No! And certainly not an Audi.


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## 2hats (Apr 10, 2018)

T & P said:


> I would wager that if a survey was carried out amongst people who support blanket 20mph limits asking them if they would support the limit being lowered to 5 mph, a majority of them would deem it too slow and vote against it. Would you describe such people as being impatient?


A speed attainable by a reasonably fit adult when walking, let alone cycling, would be fairly pointless.


> At the end of the day a 5 mph limit would save so many more lives than a 20 limit...


Not until all vehicles are zero emission it wouldn’t (traffic pollutants, which you’d be both increasing the output and linger time of, account for several times more deaths each year than traffic accidents).

Yet within a few years it will all be moot.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 10, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> They should also include fewer safety features, so that drivers feel _more_ vulnerable and therefore drive safer.





T & P said:


> That is probably the single most reckless suggestion I have ever heard about road safety



Why? Passengers should get every safety feature possible. It's the driver who should have no seatbelt or airbag, then they might consider slowing the fuck down as a precaution.


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## Spymaster (Apr 10, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> Why? Passengers should get every safety feature possible. It's the driver who should have no seatbelt or airbag, then they might consider slowing the fuck down as a precaution.


Don't be daft. Drivers are often hit through no fault of their own and as Mauvais said, prior to about the mid-80s most cars were pretty unsafe places to be in the event of an accident and everyone still drove like twats.


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## T & P (Apr 10, 2018)

2hats said:


> A speed attainable by a reasonably fit adult when walking, let alone cycling, would be fairly pointless.


 Yeah but it would save some lives wouldn't it? In any case the 5 mph suggestion is of course an extreme example. Would you support a 10 mph limit? And if not, how come? A 10 mph limit is about three times faster than a walking person, so still pretty useful and of course you can carry heavy loads, elderly passengers or indeed yourself if you have mobility issues. So why not force all motor vehicles to travel at such speeds in cities? It'd certainly save more lives.


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I would venture that the people who claim to have been done 2mph over in fact mean that they were 2mph over the 10% + 2mph, 37 in a 30 kind of thing.


Aside from the 'I'm so hard done by' liars who don't understand how the system works, I reckon that some don't even know what the limit was despite getting a NIP with it on, i.e. it's really for 42 in a 30 (SACs are offered for 35-42) but they think it's for 42 in a 40 cos they're a moron.


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## 2hats (Apr 10, 2018)

T & P said:


> Yeah but it would save some lives wouldn't it? In any case the 5 mph suggestion is of course an extreme example. Would you support a 10 mph limit? And if not, how come? A 10 mph limit is about three times faster than a walking person, so still pretty useful and of course you can carry heavy loads, elderly passengers or indeed yourself if you have mobility issues. So why not force all motor vehicles to travel at such speeds in cities? It'd certainly save more lives.


You’ve ignored what I wrote.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 10, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Don't be daft. Drivers are often hit through no fault of their own and as Mauvais said, prior to about the mid-80s most cars were pretty unsafe places to be in the event of an accident and everyone still drove like twats.



Hit by whom? Other drivers, driving like idiots because they know they've got a seat belt and air bag to stop them dying if they crash. Take it away. There's always the option of not driving a car at all, if driving one slowly without seatbelt and airbag feels too dangerous.


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> Hit by whom? Other drivers, driving like idiots because they know they've got a seat belt and air bag to stop them dying if they crash. Take it away. There's always the option of not driving a car at all, if driving one slowly without seatbelt and airbag feels too dangerous.


 What do you drive?


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## mojo pixy (Apr 10, 2018)

I drive a car and (for work) a van. I keep to speed limits in both, partly because I don't want to get fined / caned on insurance / lose my license, but mostly because I like a good long reaction time on the roads.


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

Presumably you've cut through the seatbelts and stuck a screwdriver through the airbag ECU then? Or is it just other people you think should die?


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## mojo pixy (Apr 10, 2018)

What? No, because seatbelts are obligatory. And I only have faith in the airbag, there's no knowing for sure it'll work when it has to.

I don't want anyone to die, what I want is for people to drive more safely just because it's an inherently dangerous thing to do. I think it feels less dangerous than it should because of all the safety features cars now have. If driving were made to feel more dangerous, say perhaps_ as dangerous as it is_, people might take a bit more responsibility for their own safety rather than expecting car manufacturers to do it for them.


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

As explained, it didn't work in past decades when cars were not only far more dangerous but obviously so - long before NVH reduction and infotainment, long before collapsible steering columns and crumple zones - so why do you believe it'll work now?

Seatbelts aren't mandatory. If you believe in your own logic then commit to it by driving a car from before 1972.

Also, there is no illusion of safety. Modern cars are genuinely safe, at least for their own belted occupants.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 10, 2018)

Seatbelts are mandatory in my car, and I don't want a 50-year-old rust bucket just to prove a point.
Obviously I don't know if cutting out safety features for drivers (but not passengers) would make drivers drive less recklessly, but if it doesn't then only drivers will suffer for it; and if drivers don't fancy that then other transport options are available for scaredy cats


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## mauvais (Apr 10, 2018)

Sounds like you should get the bus then.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 10, 2018)

I'd gladly drive without the aforementioned safety features, because I drive safely.



mauvais said:


> Also, there is no illusion of safety. Modern cars are genuinely safe, at least for their own belted occupants.



Exactly my point. The people inside are safer than the people outside, the driver is arguably safest of all (most prepared, most observant, steering wheel in hand to brace against etc) and this is all the wrong way around IMO.


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## Spymaster (Apr 10, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> I'd gladly drive without the aforementioned safety features, because I drive safely.


I don't believe that you never make mistakes but even otherwise, do you think that means you'll never have an accident?


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## mojo pixy (Apr 10, 2018)

I have had accidents, once because I was too close behind someone (never do that again) and once because the car had a bad tyre that blew out, and I came off the road, over a ditch and ended in a field. I was lucky to survive and lucky not to hit anyone else. 

I was glad in that case that I was wearing a seatbelt, it definitely safed my life - but who's to say I might not have driving a little slower, a little more carefully, if I hadn't been wearing one? I don't know. I might have hit a tree and died anyway, seatbelt or no seatbelt. The point is that (I believe) the feeling of safety and security behind the wheel - and the consensus seems to be this is real safety, not just the perception of safety - does make people behave more recklessly, that _Nah it'll be fine_ feeling we all know. If we weren't wearing seatbelts in the driving seat, would we take those risks? Would we drive at that speed?

I think the safer we already feel at any given moment, the more likely we are to take risks at that moment, and the more risky the risks will be that we take. It's just an opinion, not a particularly controversial one, and I think it applies to driving as to any other risky thing that people do. More broadly I have a theory that more _security _exists everywhere around us the more H&S applies everywhere, all the time, the less mindful we gradually become about the risks that do exist and our approach to them.

tl;dr - the more protected we feel the less we look to protect ourselves.


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## T & P (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> I drive a car and (for work) a van. I keep to speed limits in both, partly because I don't want to get fined / caned on insurance / lose my license, *but mostly because I like a good long reaction time on the roads.*


So imagine you'd been using a wide main 'A-road' in your town/ city for many years that had always had a 30 mph limit, and regularly drove at speeds not even near the limit but around 25-27 mph, which is very prudent for many if not most main thoroughfares.

If that road was overnight changed to a 20 mph limit, because, say, there was a local election and the winning party had made a pledge to introduce city-wide 20 mph limits, would that mean in your opinion that you and just about and everyone else had been driving at unsafe speeds for decades and that the new limit is actually the maximum acceptable speed limit? Or do you accept the _possibility_ that sometimes exceeding the stated speed limit does not mean you"re driving at unsafe speeds?


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## Poi E (Apr 11, 2018)

I now support the 20 mph limit around Croydon as it saves your suspension from the potholes


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## hash tag (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> I drive a car and (for work) a van. I keep to speed limits in both, partly because I don't want to get fined / caned on insurance / lose my license, but mostly because I like a good long reaction time on the roads.



I tend to obey speed limits (or better) because I don't want to injure or kill anyone. Insurance and licence are secondary considerations.


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## bimble (Apr 11, 2018)

I think (my great wisdom here as expert motorist) that some of the problem is due to the blanket imposition of 20mph like in Lambeth where i live. On many of these roads obviously 20 is right, or even less, because they are narrow and there's loads of pedestrians etc. Those roads usually have speed pumps as extra enforcement. But other bits there's big wide straight roads with just a long park railing one side and no shops etc at all and I get why people become frustrated and judge for themselves that going over 20 is safe. So they overtake trundling 20mphers and that then does sometimes get dangerous.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> I think (my great wisdom here as expert motorist) that some of the problem is due to the blanket imposition of 20mph like in Lambeth where i live. On many of these roads obviously 20 is right, or even less, because they are narrow and there's loads of pedestrians etc. Those roads usually have speed pumps as extra enforcement. But other bits there's big wide straight roads with just a long park railing one side and no shops etc at all and I get why people become frustrated and judge for themselves that going over 20 is safe.


There are loads of roads like this. The start of the Camden Road is a 3 lane carriageway that has no business whatsoever having a 20 limit and of course they put a camera on it which must have raised a fortune. I think that’s changed now after uproar from motorist groups, the camera has certainly gone, but there are plenty of others.


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## bimble (Apr 11, 2018)

It cost TfL £700,000 to make Lambeth a 20mph zone (apparently) . That’s a lot of speeding tickets.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2018)

So what some people are saying is that the speed limits don't apply to them in some circumstances but thats ok because they are really good drivers.


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## cupid_stunt (Apr 11, 2018)

Blanket imposition of 20mph is crazy, around here there's proposals for 20mph on residential streets, but not the 'prime routes' across the town.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

T & P said:


> So imagine you'd been using a wide main 'A-road' in your town/ city for many years that had always had a 30 mph limit, and regularly drove at speeds not even near the limit but around 25-27 mph, which is very prudent for many if not most main thoroughfares.
> 
> If that road was overnight changed to a 20 mph limit, because, say, there was a local election and the winning party had made a pledge to introduce city-wide 20 mph limits, would that mean in your opinion that *you and just about and everyone else had been driving at unsafe speeds for decades* and that the new limit is actually the maximum acceptable speed limit? Or do you accept the _possibility_ that sometimes exceeding the stated speed limit does not mean you"re driving at unsafe speeds?



I broadly agree with the bit in bold. And I'd rather people would drive slower without having laws to oblige it but I'm not sure totally voluntary speed codes would work at this stage in our evolution.

The underlined bit, I agree with - but that doesn't mean I think everyone should flout the speed limits. I don't get the problem really. People argue it's an issue of being a responsible adult and being able to judge a safe speed ourselves. OK. But what's the _actual problem _with keeping to the limits?


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> So what some people are saying is that the speed limits don't apply to them in some circumstances but thats ok because they are really good drivers.


 Who said that?


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> So what some people are saying is that the speed limits don't apply to them in some circumstances but thats ok because they are really good drivers.



I guess such people also pay whatever they want in shops rather than the price on the label, because intelligent and responsible adults should be able to work out for themselves how much a thing should cost rather than stick to blanket limits. I like it.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> - but that doesn't mean I think everyone should flout the speed limits.


Again, who's suggested that they should? 

WTF's going on here???


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## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> I guess such people also pay whatever they want in shops rather than the price on the label, because intelligent and responsible adults should be able to work out for themselves how much a thing should cost. I like it.



its an attitude I extend to drugs, tbf.


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## bimble (Apr 11, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Who said that?


Tbh even i feel like that already and i know objectively that I've no clue what i'm doing really. It must be something about cars that just brings out the arrogant twit in everyone.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

So what's the actual problem with sticking to speed limits, apart from ego?



Spymaster said:


> Again, who's suggested that they should?



I don't believe the roads would be safer if everybody drove at their / their cars's favourite speed. I don't believe all drivers are capable of judging safe speed, as a matter of fact I believe most aren't. I believe 20mph limits make some people want to drive at 30, and a 30 limit makes those people want to drive at 40 and a 70 limit makes them want to drive at 90. The problem (if there is one) is people behaving with reckless entitlement, not speed limits.


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## marty21 (Apr 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> I think (my great wisdom here as expert motorist) that some of the problem is due to the blanket imposition of 20mph like in Lambeth where i live. On many of these roads obviously 20 is right, or even less, because they are narrow and there's loads of pedestrians etc. Those roads usually have speed pumps as extra enforcement. But other bits there's big wide straight roads with just a long park railing one side and no shops etc at all and I get why people become frustrated and judge for themselves that going over 20 is safe. So they overtake trundling 20mphers and that then does sometimes get dangerous.


I'm not sure it's blanket in Hackney, my street is 20, the road at the end of the street is 30, I can drive around the roundabout at 30 if I wanted to , and then reduce to 20 on the Lea Bridge Road for about a mile, before speeding up to 30 again.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> I don't believe the roads would be safer if everybody drove at their / their cars's favourite speed. I don't believe all drivers are capable of judging safe speed, as a matter of fact I believe most aren't. I believe 20mph limits make some people want to drive at 30, and a 30 limit makes those people want to drive at 40 and a 70 limit makes them want to drive at 90. The problem (if there is one) is people behaving with reckless entitlement, not speed limits.



Again nobody has suggested driving at "their favourite speed". That's just silly.

I don't have time to do this all over again but there's tons of research around it that points to lower speed limits not _necessarily_ having the effects that you suggest and in some cases even increasing the likelihood of accidents. Speed is certainly a contributory factor to some accidents but by no means all and a bigger factor is how road users perceive the environment they're in.

Nobody here has said they want to break the law or that limits don't apply to them because they're safer drivers . Just that blanket limits and thoughtless traffic calming measures are pointless.

Of course 20mph is appropriate in some circumstances, sometimes much lower. But whacking a limit across a borough without any thought for the road conditions is stupid.

A few links are American but the AA say this:


> The UK policy on traffic calming and 20 mph zones needs to be reviewed and new funding and guidelines developed to both reduce vehicle speeds on roads which are purely residential and to improve the local environment, all as part of urban regeneration.


House of Commons - Transport, Local Government and the Regions - Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence
https://apps.warwickshire.gov.uk/api/documents/WCCC-764-35
Do 20mph speed limits actually work?
https://www.douglas.co.us/documents/establing-speed-limits.pdf
https://www.codot.gov/library/Brochures/Establishing_Realistic_Speed_Limits_Brochure.pdf
This is a good study by the RAC.

Nobody who knows what they are talking about thinks blanket limits are a good idea. It's lazy planning.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

So what exactly is the problem with sticking to them anyway?


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## Dogsauce (Apr 11, 2018)

The point of 20mph zones isn’t just about vehicle safety, it’s about creating a better environment for active travel. If for example you want more people cycling, you need other vehicles to be moving at a compatible speed. That’s a big part of it. Your average muggles on a bike-to-work hybrid is going to struggle to change lane on major roads if they are having to squeeze into gaps between large boxes of steel moving at 15mph faster than them. This is more useful on big roads where there is no segregated lanes, obviously.


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## cupid_stunt (Apr 11, 2018)

He's mentioned the 'C' word, on a thread that Spymaster is on - LOL.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> So what exactly is the problem with sticking to them anyway?


Ask someone who doesn't. Personally I do if I know it's a 20 because I don't want to get a ticket but can't say I generally look for speed markers. With the exception of silly 20s you can tell what the limit is by looking at the road so most of the time the speed I'm driving at is at or below the limit anyway. The exceptions are motorways and some DCs where I'll often exceed 70 if it makes sense.


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## mauvais (Apr 11, 2018)

The problem with speed limits, which is not fatal, is twofold, and it's much like all prohibitive regulations.

One, they discourage the individual from making their own evaluations, which in turn would make them a better driver. You can't separate the driver who slows for a pointless 20 limit from the driver who does 70 in a 70 in the fog because it's the limit. You might think you can but they're two sides of the same coin.

The other is that for speed limits to work, because there is not and will never be widespread enforcement, there needs to be faith in the system. Specifically there needs to be a trust relationship between driver and authority whereby the driver believes the limit is there for a good reason, principally to save other people's lives. If you can't justify a limit, in large part experientially, you break this trust, all limits become questionable and the system falls apart. Blanket 20s do a lot of harm in this respect.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

That's all very well but so far I'm not seeing any reason not to keep while driving to the (admittedly imperfect) speed limits we have, apart from what boils down to_ I don't wanna.
_
EtA, I don't live in London so "blanket 20 zones" aren't something I've noticed. There are plenty of 20-limit residential roads in Bristol, but I wouldn't call it blanket coverage. I think this is a London (first world) problem_.
_


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## mauvais (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> That's all very well but so far I'm not seeing any reason not to keep while driving to the (admittedly imperfect) speed limits we have, apart from what boils down to_ I don't wanna.
> _
> EtA, I don't live in London so "blanket 20 zones" aren't something I've noticed. There are plenty of 20-limit residential areas in Bristol, but I wouldn't call it blanket coverage. I think this is a London (first world) problem_.
> _



I don't live in London, never have, and I rarely go there, so not quite. They rolled them out in lots of places. Greater Manchester has rightly given up on theirs.


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## hash tag (Apr 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> I think (my great wisdom here as expert motorist) that some of the problem is due to the blanket imposition of 20mph like in Lambeth where i live. On many of these roads obviously 20 is right, or even less, because they are narrow and there's loads of pedestrians etc. Those roads usually have speed pumps as extra enforcement. But other bits there's big wide straight roads with just a long park railing one side and no shops etc at all and I get why people become frustrated and judge for themselves that going over 20 is safe. So they overtake trundling 20mphers and that then does sometimes get dangerous.



I have posted to this effect somewhere already; I quite like the blanket 20 limit; you know where you stand. It is crazy that Wandsworth have a 30 limit on side roads, you then drive into a main road operated by Lambeth and it becomes a 20 limit; madness 



cupid_stunt said:


> Blanket imposition of 20mph is crazy, around here there's proposals for 20mph on residential streets, but not the 'prime routes' across the town.



Agree, to a point.



bimble said:


> Tbh even i feel like that already and i know objectively that I've no clue what i'm doing really. It must be something about cars that just brings out the arrogant twit in everyone.



Many people do become arrogant, bad tempered Etc. when they they get behind the wheel; even my spouse starts swearing at other drivers occasionally (especially at BMW and Audi drivers) and she would never normally say boo to a goose. bimble losing your rag behind the wheel can be dangerous; please don't, please stay calm and rational, it is safer for you, it is safer for those around you. Doon't lower yourself to that level, rise above it! x

Besides, what is the average speed in town; as a regular Wandsworth driver, I think myself lucky if I can reach an average of 20 MPH in normal daytime conditions.


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## bimble (Apr 11, 2018)

Oh I’ve never yet got irate I’m having too much fun still. I’m polite (so far) make space for people etc, like in real life.  I enjoy that added awareness of adapting, within reason, to what everyone’s trying to do. But have definitely speeded / sped, not always unknowingly either.
Just by the way have driven every day since getting the car and my overall feeling is that people are a lot friendlier and more considerate out there than I thought they'd be. P plates still on they may help don't know.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> P plates still on they may help don't know.


Take them off for a few days and see how you get on. It'll be interesting to hear what you think about that.


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## bimble (Apr 11, 2018)

Yep will do that. A few days ago was at red lights with a bus to my right in the next lane. The bus driver asked me in hand signals whether I was turning left or going ahead. Thought that was very gallant of him, after I’d figured out that I hadn’t done anything wrong he was just being courteous.


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## hash tag (Apr 11, 2018)

You were not in a left turn or straight ahead lane only were you or had an indicator going?


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> Yep will do that. A few days ago was at red lights with a bus to my right in the next lane. The bus driver asked me in hand signals whether I was turning left or going ahead. Thought that was very gallant of him, after I’d figured out that I hadn’t done anything wrong he was just being courteous.


Why would you be turning left if you're not indicating left? Bloke was a dick.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> EtA, I don't live in London so "blanket 20 zones" aren't something I've noticed. There are plenty of 20-limit residential roads in Bristol, but I wouldn't call it blanket coverage. I think this is a London (first world) problem_._


Don't know about elsewhere but quite a few London boroughs have borough-wide 20 mph limits. I was driving through Camden about half an hour ago and not one single car was observing it along Adelaide Rd. Everyone was doing 30.


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## hash tag (Apr 11, 2018)

Croydon, Merton, Sutton and wandsworth do not have blanket 20 zones, in fact part of Trinity Road is actually a 40 zone. I'm guessing park lane, Piccadilly and Euston roads are not 20.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

Park Lane is quite a fast road when it's clear and it's in Westminster so no silly 20s. It's 30 at the Marble Arch end and 40 at the bottom I think.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Don't know about elsewhere but quite a few London boroughs have borough-wide 20 mph limits. I was driving through Camden about half an hour ago and not one single car was observing it along Adelaide Rd. Everyone was doing 30.



All in Audis and BMWs and Range Rovers, no doubt.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> All in Audis and BMWs and Range Rovers, no doubt.


No, that was just me as far as I remember. The point is that silly speed limits are ignored and that feeds into what Mauvais was saying earlier. They can't put cameras or coppers on every street so they rely on drivers choosing to comply. If the limits are stupid they get ignored which knocks-on to other areas. Did you read those links I posted earlier? The RAC one and the Colorado one are quite interesting.


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## mx wcfc (Apr 11, 2018)

Winchester has a blanket 20 zone in the city centre and on the estates.  My daughter's car has one of those insurance black boxes, so I have to stick to 20 when I'm driving it.  All that happens is people overtake dangerously, or sit two yards behind you in a dangerous way.


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## hash tag (Apr 11, 2018)

There was me believing it when someone told me speed cameras are only installed after one or two incidents have occurred in the same place. Another myth busted.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> No, that was just me as far as I remember. The point is that silly speed limits are ignored and that feeds into what Mauvais was saying earlier. They can't put cameras or coppers on every street so they rely on drivers choosing to comply. If the limits are stupid they get ignored which knocks-on to other areas. Did you read those links I posted earlier? The RAC one and the Colorado one are quite interesting.



Surely all laws rely on people choosing to comply? There are hundreds of crimes you can commit daily and never get caught.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> Surely all laws rely on people choosing to comply? There are hundreds of crimes you can commit daily and never get caught.


Well quite. The laws that people perceive to be stupid are the ones that will most often be ignored.

Roll-out of 20mph speed limits halted


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

So are we approving or not? Should we pander to that by raising limits? Seems like if enough people fuck speed limits off, they'll get their way. Feels like a race to the bottom, quite honestly. Install black boxes as standard in cars, only remove them for drives with advanced driving cert. Something like that would help no end.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

Why not put some thought into road planning and speed limits and do things sensibly?


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

More than one car for every two people in this country says we're already in an irredeemably stupid place to begin with. You seem to be saying the problem is the roads, whereas I believe the problem is drivers. My advanced driving observer would say at the start of every drive, _Remember you are in control of the vehicle_. Drivers are responsible for what they do, not road planners or law makers or sky faeries.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

Crush all the cars that aren't German or Italian. 

Job done.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

Actually, banning the import of all German cars would be a great post-brexit policy. Too good to really happen, mind.


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## Spymaster (Apr 11, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> Too good to really happen, mind.


Oh well, never mind


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## mojo pixy (Apr 11, 2018)

Neither that nor even full communism NOW, Brexit sux


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## bimble (Apr 12, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Why would you be turning left if you're not indicating left? Bloke was a dick.


Shit you’re right. He was being patronising .


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## Sapphireblue (Apr 12, 2018)

bimble said:


> Shit you’re right. He was being patronising .



if he was on your right he wouldn't be able to see your left indicator though?

there's a lights near me where the junction is quite narrow and both lanes can either go straight on or turn in their respective directions. in that instance it's handy to know the plans of the car next to you so might not have been.


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## bimble (Apr 12, 2018)

True! I’m going back to the he was being thoughtful and friendly explanation.


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## Spymaster (Apr 12, 2018)

If he was on your right why did he care if you were turning left?


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## hash tag (Apr 12, 2018)

Maybe it was nothing about driving


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## bimble (Apr 12, 2018)

The road ahead & left from there turns into 1 lane so i think he was asking in order to give me room to go first?


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## hash tag (Apr 12, 2018)

Shame, not an attempt at a pick up then.


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## Spymaster (Apr 12, 2018)

I think we need to know the junction


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## cupid_stunt (Apr 12, 2018)

bimble said:


> The road ahead & left from there turns into 1 lane so i think he was asking in order to give me room to go first?



So, you are in 2 lanes at a junction, there's two options - to turn left or go straight ahead, both only have 1 lane?

Sounds like the lane you were in could be a left turn only lane.


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## bimble (Apr 12, 2018)

Camberwell crossroads right by the green. I’m pretty sure he was being nice and not a twat.


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## bimble (Apr 12, 2018)

No ! I was ok in that lane I checked!


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## Spymaster (Apr 12, 2018)

bimble said:


> Camberwell crossroads right by the green. I’m pretty sure he was being nice and not a twat.


Going in which direction?


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## bimble (Apr 12, 2018)

I was going strIght across.. into Camberwell station road . .


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 12, 2018)

He was leering down yer top bimble. Van drivers can't do this to cars on their left, bus drivers can cos they have the glass doors.


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## bimble (Apr 12, 2018)




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## George & Bill (Apr 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Well quite. The laws that people perceive to be stupid are the ones that will most often be ignored.
> 
> Roll-out of 20mph speed limits halted



Interesting doublethink here. When cyclists break laws, it's because they're irredeemable assholes. When drivers do it, it must mean the laws are misconceived.  

I mean you're right of course, that laws which are widely broken may well be flawed. You just need to try to be more consistent in how you apply this insight.

And of course, there are also other factors to consider. Does the law, despite being widely broken, address a clear and pressing problem (such as, people being killed on residential roads)? Does the law, despite being widely broken, command public support? Is there evidence to demonstrate that it works? Though it's not being widely observed now, are there reasonable means available to enforce it?

Hundreds of people are killed on the roads every year. Obviously we should all be free to criticise the effectiveness of any given measure taken to address this – but if you scoff at and undermine the general effort, you're someone who implicitly supports the violent killing of kids. Obviously I'm not putting Spymaster in that category, necessarily.


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## hash tag (Apr 13, 2018)

If you want an example of flawed laws do you remember Charlie Alliston. He was sent to prison for the 1861 law "wanton and furious driving" for killing a woman pedestrian. A law passed before cars and maybe bicycles had been invented. There has also been much comment of car drivers who kill someone and getting off very lightly. 

Unfortunately, you will never get a 100% of the population obeying the law 100% of the time. I imagine most vehicle drivers have broken the law at some point.


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## Spymaster (Apr 13, 2018)

George & Bill said:


> Interesting doublethink here. When cyclists break laws, it's because they're irredeemable assholes.



Well of course. Duh! Cyclists are pea-brained fuckwits and should be considered outlaws.

What you’re missing here of course is the fact that this is not about cyclists v motorists and all to do with the fact that there is a stack of evidence that blanket 20s simply DON’T WORK regardless of the mode of transport and can even create a more dangerous environment. 

Nobody is suggesting that no roads should have 20 (or even lower) limits.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Crush all the cars that aren't German or Italian.
> 
> Job done.



Anything less than 2.5ltr can quite frankly be sent straight to the crusher too, with the driver still inside. Get the reps off the road, leaving the way clear for those who know what they're doing.


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## Teaboy (Apr 13, 2018)

This thread has a lot of accusations about BMW drivers and Audi drivers but its become quite apparent to me that they both lag way behind the biggest twats on the road.  These days it's all about white mercs, the model varies (I don't think Mercedes make two cars the same these days) but its always white.

This is the absolute go to car if you're a total and utter bell and audi and beemer drivers are being left in their wake.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> What you’re missing here of course is the fact that this is not about cyclists v motorists and all to do with the fact that there is a stack of evidence that blanket 20s simply DON’T WORK regardless of the mode of transport and can even create a more dangerous environment.



Otherwise known as, drivers evidently ignore 20mph limits because they'd rather drive faster, and people's impatience at being made to drive slowly makes them drive more dangerously. _Can create a more dangerous environment_ lol, as if a dangerous environment suddenly springs up like mushrooms


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## sleaterkinney (Apr 13, 2018)

Police letting motorists off for speeding has meant they think speed limits are optional.


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## Teaboy (Apr 13, 2018)

I actually don't have an issue with blanket 20mph zones although I agree some really are not necessary.  What pisses me off is as someone who abides by them (I really only drive for work and I'm fucked if I'm getting a speeding ticket on work time) is that I will always have other drivers crawling all over the rear of my car.  In general I'd say 20mph zones are ignored and unenforced anyway.


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## George & Bill (Apr 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> there is a stack of evidence that blanket 20s simply DON’T WORK regardless of the mode of transport and can even create a more dangerous environment.



Genuinely curious to know more about the items that comprise this stack you refer to...


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## T & P (Apr 13, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> I actually don't have an issue with blanket 20mph zones although I agree some really are not necessary.  What pisses me off is as someone who abides by them (I really only drive for work and I'm fucked if I'm getting a speeding ticket on work time) is that I will always have other drivers crawling all over the rear of my car.  In general I'd say 20mph zones are ignored and unenforced anyway.


.
What to do though? i’m wondering what the supporters of blanket 20 mph zones and advocates of strict adherence of the law at all times think we should do about enforcement. Because IME even those very few drivers who are clearly acknowledging the 20 mph limit on main thoroughfares by going much slower than everyone else are still spiking to 22-24 mph regularly

I can honestly say I have only seen seen one instance in my entire life of someone  actually sticking to the limit on a main road throughout the entire time they were within my sight.. And I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the posters here who say they never go over the limit actually do with regularly, even if inadvertently. So what should we set speed cameras to trigger at? 21? 24? 27?


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## George & Bill (Apr 14, 2018)

T & P said:


> .
> What to do though? i’m wondering what the supporters of blanket 20 mph zones and advocates of strict adherence of the law at all times think we should do about enforcement. Because IME even those very few drivers who are clearly acknowledging the 20 mph limit on main thoroughfares by going much slower than everyone else are still spiking to 22-24 mph regularly
> 
> I can honestly say I have only seen seen one instance in my entire life of someone  actually sticking to the limit on a main road throughout the entire time they were within my sight.. And I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the posters here who say they never go over the limit actually do with regularly, even if inadvertently. So what should we set speed cameras to trigger at? 21? 24? 27?



It doesn't seem like something beyond human intelligence to come up with a fair enforcement program. I'd suggest some combination of:

- An information campaign to give people fair warning that the speed limits will be enforced
- People who go, say, over 30 in a 20 to be consistently fined in the normal way
- People caught between 22 and 30 to be subject to a progressive system: first a warning letter, then a small fine, then a full fine for the third offence


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## George & Bill (Apr 14, 2018)

Aside from the reduction in injuries and deaths, cars being kept to 20 in urban areas would mean less noise, a friendlier environment for people to move around in, and the ability for parents to let their kids be more independent from an earlier age.


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## bimble (Apr 14, 2018)

Does it seem likely to anyone else that in a shortish time cars will just come with some sort of inbuilt sensor that knows the speed limit of where you’re driving and limits you accordingly?


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## George & Bill (Apr 14, 2018)

bimble said:


> Does it seem likely to anyone else that in a shortish time cars will just come with some sort of inbuilt sensor that knows the speed limit of where you’re driving and limits you accordingly?



I think there's a strong argument that the human-operated car will be gone within the lifetimes of people alive today. A natural knock-on effect seems likely to be a hastened downturn in personal car ownership in general – services like Uber will become much cheaper once they don't need a human driver, and car ownership will become the domain of people who regularly travel to scarcely-populated areas.


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## bimble (Apr 14, 2018)

Well yes but long before that happens, I reckon it’s possible cars will just adhere to speed limits, even whilst there’s still humans putting their foot down inside them.


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## George & Bill (Apr 14, 2018)

Of course, there are lots of variables that could affect this process. On one hand, if strong evidence emerges early on that self-driving cars are dramatically safer than human-driven ones, a case could quickly mount for the latter being phased out. On the other, even a few deaths caused by a new technology that people are naturally wary of could seriously set it back or even kill it off.


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## George & Bill (Apr 14, 2018)

bimble said:


> Well yes but long before that happens, I reckon it’s possible cars will just adhere to speed limits, even whilst there’s still humans putting their foot down inside them.



I agree. And concerns about privacy and surveillance, which I do think are valid, will nonetheless hold less weight in the context of all the other ways in which we're increasingly watched over :/


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## mauvais (Apr 14, 2018)

George & Bill said:


> It doesn't seem like something beyond human intelligence to come up with a fair enforcement program. I'd suggest some combination of:
> 
> - An information campaign to give people fair warning that the speed limits will be enforced
> - People who go, say, over 30 in a 20 to be consistently fined in the normal way
> - People caught between 22 and 30 to be subject to a progressive system: first a warning letter, then a small fine, then a full fine for the third offence


Great, but who or what is going to enforce this?


George & Bill said:


> Of course, there are lots of variables that could affect this process. On one hand, if strong evidence emerges early on that self-driving cars are dramatically safer than human-driven ones, a case could quickly mount for the latter being phased out. On the other, even a few deaths caused by a new technology that people are naturally wary of could seriously set it back or even kill it off.


You're behind on this - they've already done millions of miles, and have an apparently better safety record, but they've also killed several people (Uber x1, Tesla x2 at least) with consequences ongoing.


bimble said:


> Does it seem likely to anyone else that in a shortish time cars will just come with some sort of inbuilt sensor that knows the speed limit of where you’re driving and limits you accordingly?


No, because although not enormously difficult, it would require massive infrastructure and given the rise of autonomous vehicles, would soon become irrelevant. Plus what problem would it solve exactly? Road casualties where excessive speed was a primary factor are fairly rare, and the sum total of all road casualties (~1700 dead each year) is arguably not amongst the nation's priorities.


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## bimble (Apr 14, 2018)

mauvais said:


> Road casualties where excessive speed was a primary factor are fairly rare, and the sum total of all road casualties (~1700 dead each year) is arguably not amongst the nation's priorities.


Really? I haven't got much of a clue but if asked to guess primary factor in road casualties I would have guessed speed. The rest of it true, and the nation's priorities are increasingly a total mystery to me anyway.


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## mauvais (Apr 14, 2018)

bimble said:


> Really? I haven't got much of a clue but if asked to guess primary factor in road casualties I would have guessed speed. The rest of it true, and the nation's priorities are increasingly a total mystery to me anyway.


Excessive speed as a primary factor would mean that, had the people in question been traveling either at the speed limit or at the appropriate speed for the conditions, the accident wouldn't have happened or its consequences would have been less severe.

That's distinctly separate from, 'if the speed limit was reduced'.

For passenger vehicles (cars), which make up about half of deaths, in practice it means things like, 'went too fast for a bend and crashed through a wall', or other loss of control accidents. Similar for motorbikes. For other road users where another vehicle is involved, it's more complicated.

The government report has 'injudicious action' as the primary cause in about 30% of cases. However this includes other things like tailgating.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjALegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw2I48fL5DYq6Twea7jFVZj4

For all this talk about 20 limits, we're talking about 20 deaths a year in these zones.


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## George & Bill (Apr 14, 2018)

mauvais said:


> Great, but who or what is going to enforce this?



 The same people who currently enforce speed limits on some but not all roads? 



> You're behind on this - they've already done millions of miles, and have an apparently better safety record, but they've also killed several people (Uber x1, Tesla x2 at least) with consequences ongoing.



Sure, I know – and as you say, testing so far does show they're much safer. But the deaths so far can be seen by the public as freak occurrences associated with a technology still at the testing phase. It remains to be seen how people would respond to a larger number of casualties, even if it's clear that that number represents a reduction in comparison to human-operated cars.  



> Road casualties where excessive speed was a primary factor are fairly rare, and the sum total of all road casualties (~1700 dead each year) is arguably not amongst the nation's priorities.



Several problems with this. First, speed doesn't have to be the primary factor for it to be a significant factor. Second, I'm not in the least bit happy about 1700 people dying each year if that is in any way preventable. Third, the number of _deaths _is only the tip of the iceberg: many times more are seriously injured; the danger of road accidents is likely to discourage parents from letting their kids play outsider or walk/cycle to school etc, and health problems associated with sedentary lifestyles are another major problem.


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## existentialist (Apr 14, 2018)

bimble said:


> Well yes but long before that happens, I reckon it’s possible cars will just adhere to speed limits, even whilst there’s still humans putting their foot down inside them.


I think I'd much prefer the auto equivalent of the "stick shaker" on aircraft - that there is some kind of warning that is given when you are driving above the local limit, but you still have the autonomy to do so. There _are_ situations where it could potentially be dangerous to suddenly have the vehicle decide it's not going to do what you want it to do.

I think a more likely occurrence will be the increasing use of "black boxes", allowing insurers (and potentially police) to determine whether and when you were driving unsafely. That still gives the motorist the autonomy and choice to drive like a dick, but gives authorities the option to detect and deal with it.

I do like the idea of a graduated/cumulative warning system, though. I think rigid enforcement of often quite arbitrary speed limits isn't a particularly good approach, psychologically, while a system whereby the occasional infraction was noticed but tolerated, until it started happening too often (or was too severe to tolerate), at which point some kind of consequence should kick in, would be far more likely to achieve better voluntary compliance.


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## BigTom (Apr 14, 2018)

bimble said:


> Does it seem likely to anyone else that in a shortish time cars will just come with some sort of inbuilt sensor that knows the speed limit of where you’re driving and limits you accordingly?



GPS is not consistently accurate enough to allow this to happen, it would need sensors that would take you so close to the point of automated vehicles you may as well just have automated vehicles.

I would like to see black boxes with dash cams and telemetry being sent to police, who could then act accordingly.
If someone is consistently driving at 22-24mph in 20 limits they can be warned and then fine/points of no behaviour change, but the occasional drift over 20 isn't punished.

Larger infractions can be dealt with individually, and the cameras are there for evidence in the edge cases where breaking the speed limit was the right thing to do or if the gps is acting up and thinks you are on a different road to where you were, to avoid the issue of machines not taking circumstance into account.


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## existentialist (Apr 14, 2018)

George & Bill said:


> Several problems with this. First, speed doesn't have to be the primary factor for it to be a significant factor. Second, I'm not in the least bit happy about 1700 people dying each year if that is in any way preventable. Third, the number of _deaths _is only the tip of the iceberg: many times more are seriously injured; the danger of road accidents is likely to discourage parents from letting their kids play outsider or walk/cycle to school etc, and health problems associated with sedentary lifestyles are another major problem.


I think the biggest problem with speed has been the excessive focus on it. Whether or not it's the main, sole, or aggravating factor in a majority of collisions, it's not the only one, and yet we seem to have arrived at a situation where drivers are likely to be focused on their speed almost to the exclusion of all else. I've spoken to people who genuinely believe that their inattentive driving is irrelevant so long as they are driving below the speed limit - it's almost as if they think that nothing can go wrong provided they don't go faster than the sign says.

Which is scary, for two main reasons. First of all, and having been the passenger of one or two of these, it's clear to me that there's a lot more about driving safely than speed. One in particular seemed determined to tailgate anything they could, and I remember getting out of the car with my brake leg aching from unconsciously trying to make the car drop back - and when I (somewhat bravely) commented on it, his reaction was "Why? I wasn't going too fast.". Someone else had a habit of pulling out of side turnings alarmingly close to approaching traffic, and justified this by insisting that the other driver was "going too fast", as if that was going to trump the laws of physics. Both of those drivers, incidentally, have had >1 accident in the last 10 years, but obviously none of those were *their* fault, so that's OK, then.

The other thing is the emphasis it puts on speed for drivers, and especially inexperienced ones. If you know your car, and you're reasonably experienced, you have a pretty good sense (±10% ) of how fast you're going. If you don't, then you're likely to be doing a lot of squinting at your speedo as you go along, especially in places where there are speed cameras. And guess where they put speed cameras? Yep, accident blackspots, where perhaps rather MORE attention on the road would be beneficial.

I don't have anything against enforcement of the law in general, but I think that how it is done is important, and I am really not convinced that scattering highly visible speed cameras around the place is a good way to enforce often quite arbitrary limits. Pain that they are, I think the average speed cameras work better, because they encourages a more continuous awareness and conservative approach to speed, though I still think that the psychological pressure of not crossing that hard-and-fast x mph line is a powerful distraction from all of the other things we should be paying attention to.

I've spent the last week doing about 1000 miles in a vehicle whose performance meant that I rarely needed to worry about speed - the combination of 3½ tons and a very clattery diesel engine means that 30mph feels like 50 , and its acceleration is sufficiently poor that it demands a completely different approach to driving, especially on motorways. One of the things that I think too few motorists do is to "read" the road ahead - to see what's going on not just for the vehicle in front, but further ahead than that. Granted, a nice high driving position helps a lot there, but you do see a lot of sudden braking as people fail to anticipate changes in the traffic flow, and that is not only potentially dangerous, but creates holdups and impedes the flow of traffic. We could be doing a lot more to train drivers in these skills, but we don't really take that very seriously - it all becomes all about not going too fast, and precious little else. Where are the "tailgating" cameras, or the "driving 2 miles with an empty lane to your left" cameras, for example? I'd quite like to see gantry signs that said "XX99 XXX, you are tailgating" once or twice, before saying "XX99 XXX, tailgating NIP in the post". With the added benefit of public shaming of the offender


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## hash tag (Apr 14, 2018)

I note that people are only referring to speed limits when breaking the law but there are of course, many other issues like wearing seat belts, use of mobile phones, siting of mobile phones, not to mention tints or dodgy number plates or exhausts.

Ignoring those, if waiting at traffic lights, who would not automatically move if an ambulance or fire engine with a blue light approached. It is of course illegal to cross the line At a traffic lnless specifically instructed To do so by a police officer.


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## existentialist (Apr 14, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I note that people are only referring to speed limits when breaking the law but there are of course, many other issues like wearing seat belts, use of mobile phones, siting of mobile phones, not to mention tints or dodgy number plates or exhausts.
> 
> Ignoring those, if waiting at traffic lights, who would not automatically move if an ambulance or fire engine with a blue light approached. It is of course illegal to cross the line At a traffic lnless specifically instructed To do so by a police officer.


Yep. And I've seen quite a few situations where exactly that has happened - fire engine/ambulance coming through the traffic, only to get stuck behind someone who wouldn't cross the line even just to get over to the side a bit more. Although it's not the only reason it happens, I think a large part of that is the fostering of a black-and-white punitive approach to driving "transgressions".


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## George & Bill (Apr 14, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I think the biggest problem with speed has been the excessive focus on it. Whether or not it's the main, sole, or aggravating factor in a majority of collisions, it's not the only one, and yet we seem to have arrived at a situation where drivers are likely to be focused on their speed almost to the exclusion of all else.



Well that is just obviously not true. Speed is one thing that gets a lot of attention because it's easy to quantify. But there are also others that are very prominent and topical: texting and drugs and alcohol are two obvious ones. Overall, we'd have less need to go on about it if there were not so many people going around with the sense that they're generally entitled to endanger people through their driving.


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## bimble (Apr 14, 2018)

Was pulling out of my spot earlier (narrow residential street with cars parked both sides) and some twat come zooming down at I don't know what speed. Just pure luck i think that I hadn't edged out a tiny bit further. I'm getting the hang of cursing people whilst driving.


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## existentialist (Apr 14, 2018)

George & Bill said:


> Well that is just obviously not true. Speed is one thing that gets a lot of attention because it's easy to quantify. But there are also others that are very prominent and topical: texting and drugs and alcohol are two obvious ones. Overall, we'd have less need to go on about it if there were not so many people going around with the sense that they're generally entitled to endanger people through their driving.


Most people will be aware that those other things are external to actually driving. You're not nearly so likely to accidentally get stoned while driving as you are to accidentally go too fast, and the same goes for texting. Driving faster than the speed limit, like tailgating, cutting people up, hogging the middle lane, etc., are all things people can do as an intrinsic part of their driving behaviour. Yet we only really focus on the speed thing, probably because it's technologically easier and cheaper to enforce.


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## existentialist (Apr 14, 2018)

bimble said:


> Was pulling out of my spot earlier (narrow residential street with cars parked both sides) and some twat come zooming down at I don't know what speed. Just pure luck i think that I hadn't edged out a tiny bit further. I'm getting the hang of cursing people whilst driving.


I developed a good cursing-people-while-driving habit, then began to wonder if that was such a great thing. My stepdaughter has elevated it to something of a driverage state, and I think it's very distracting. So I've worked hard on going the other way, and being very pragmatic about the appalling failings of everyone else on the road, bar me


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## 2hats (Apr 14, 2018)

George & Bill said:


> But there are also others ... Overall, we'd have less need to go on about it if there were not so many people going around with the sense that they're generally entitled to endanger people through their driving.


Consequent air pollution directly arising from motor transport being another, which accounts for something like 20 times (or more) deaths than (kinetic) road traffic accidents annually.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 14, 2018)

Heart attacks and strokes from driving-related stress? I reckon for a lot of people who commute by car or use one to do a school run, driving constitutes a major source of blood-pressure spiking.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 14, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Most people will be aware that those other things are external to actually driving. You're not nearly so likely to accidentally get stoned while driving as you are to accidentally go too fast, and the same goes for texting. Driving faster than the speed limit, like tailgating, cutting people up, hogging the middle lane, etc., are all things people can do as an intrinsic part of their driving behaviour. Yet we only really focus on the speed thing, probably because it's technologically easier and cheaper to enforce.


Unfortunately, too many people seem to be stuck on the 'speed kills' bandwagon. I regularly see people texting and updating their Facebook status whilst driving, and it's far more dangerous than speeding.
I ride motorbikes, and I've lost count of the number of times I've nearly been taken out by someone texting whilst driving. Just a couple of weeks ago a girl pulled out directly into my path from a side road, then stopped in the middle of my lane when she finally saw me. I had to stand the bike on its nose to stop before hitting her, and I was literally 6 inches from her door when I stopped, and I watched as she threw her phone onto the passenger seat. I got off the bike and knocked on her window, which she lowered a couple of inches, and I asked her whether or not she would have admitted she was using her phone if I'd crashed into her. She lost the plot and started screaming at me, saying she wasn't using her phone, and I should mind my own fucking business.
I couldn't give a rat's arse if someone goes a couple of mph over the speed limit, but someone texting is another matter. They're far more likely to cause an accident, but next to nothing is being done to stop it.


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## existentialist (Apr 14, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Unfortunately, too many people seem to be stuck on the 'speed kills' bandwagon. I regularly see people texting and updating their Facebook status whilst driving, and it's far more dangerous than speeding.
> I ride motorbikes, and I've lost count of the number of times I've nearly been taken out by someone texting whilst driving. Just a couple of weeks ago a girl pulled out directly into my path from a side road, then stopped in the middle of my lane when she finally saw me. I had to stand the bike on its nose to stop before hitting her, and I was literally 6 inches from her door when I stopped, and I watched as she threw her phone onto the passenger seat. I got off the bike and knocked on her window, which she lowered a couple of inches, and I asked her whether or not she would have admitted she was using her phone if I'd crashed into her. She lost the plot and started screaming at me, saying she wasn't using her phone, and I should mind my own fucking business.
> I couldn't give a rat's arse if someone goes a couple of mph over the speed limit, but someone texting is another matter. They're far more likely to cause an accident, but next to nothing is being done to stop it.


I agree, but what do you think could be done to stop it? There have been several very well-reported cases where people have been prosecuted for using their mobiles and causing accidents, and it appears quite straightforward to get the evidence to prove that's what happened, but I wonder what can be done in terms of prevention. I'm aware that the whole profile of drink driving changed, not least because of a very effective campaign, in the late 70s/early 80s, to the point that anyone boasting about it as they used to risked serious pariah status. I guess something similar needs to happen with texting/facebooking to make a real difference.

I wonder what would have happened if you'd made a call to the police giving the exact time of the incident - would they, I wonder, have checked it out and found that texts were being sent from the driver's phone at around that time, or do they only do that kind of followup *after* an accident has happened?


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## Looby (Apr 14, 2018)

I’ve reported someone once for using their phone. I felt like a bit of a cunt doing it but she was veering all over the road and nearly caused at least two accidents when I was behind her. 

I see so many people clearly on their phones every day, I don’t get it.


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## existentialist (Apr 14, 2018)

Looby said:


> I’ve reported someone once for using their phone. I felt like a bit of a cunt doing it but she was veering all over the road and nearly caused at least two accidents when I was behind her.
> 
> I see so many people clearly on their phones every day, I don’t get it.


Temptation. "Ach, it's only a quick call/text/Facebook update".

There's that hoary old stat that says 95% of drivers think they're above average standard. The corollary of that is probably that a lot of that 95% believe that they're good enough that they, unlike all those inferior drivers, *can* drive safely and text.

I did it once. Even though I'm not really one of the 95%, I was quite horrified at just how much of a distraction it was. I do occasionally start and stop a podcast while underway, but even that simple task is pretty distracting to the point that you wouldn't want to do it except on a clear straight road with no traffic nearby. The idea of squinting at a phone screen while composing a message...well, anyone who wasn't 100% sure of their ability to safely drive a car while spending seconds at a time not watching the road ahead would be fucked. It's lucky there's so many above-average drivers out there


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 14, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I agree, but what do you think could be done to stop it? There have been several very well-reported cases where people have been prosecuted for using their mobiles and causing accidents, and it appears quite straightforward to get the evidence to prove that's what happened, but I wonder what can be done in terms of prevention. I'm aware that the whole profile of drink driving changed, not least because of a very effective campaign, in the late 70s/early 80s, to the point that anyone boasting about it as they used to risked serious pariah status. I guess something similar needs to happen with texting/facebooking to make a real difference.
> 
> I wonder what would have happened if you'd made a call to the police giving the exact time of the incident - would they, I wonder, have checked it out and found that texts were being sent from the driver's phone at around that time, or do they only do that kind of followup *after* an accident has happened?



I doubt this would cost the taxpayer very much, and it would be very effective. Just send a few cops out on bikes with cameras.



But the penalty for texting whilst driving needs to be increased to a more fitting level, similar to that of drink driving, because it's every bit as dangerous.



Looby said:


> I’ve reported someone once for using their phone. I felt like a bit of a cunt doing it but she was veering all over the road and nearly caused at least two accidents when I was behind her.
> 
> I see so many people clearly on their phones every day, I don’t get it.


I don't think there's anything the cops could do without video evidence.
I see it every single day, and it's endemic amongst younger people. It's almost as if the world would end if they went more than 10 minutes without typing "OMG hon! U OK?"


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## existentialist (Apr 14, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I doubt this would cost the taxpayer very much, and it would be very effective. Just send a few cops out on bikes with cameras.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The trouble is, we're operating in a climate where putting expensive police officers on the ground, rather than the much cheaper camera type options, just isn't seen as cost-effective. It's back to that old thing about "we choose to measure the things that are easiest to measure". It's dead easy to set a speed limit and then decide  whether someone is exceeding it or not. It's not so easy to decide whether someone's using a mobile without getting eyes on, or tailgating, middle-lane-hogging, changing lanes dangerously, driving hesitantly, etc., etc., so we tend to choose not to measure those things. Whatever the risk they might present to other road users.

Actually - as if I even needed to say this - it isn't about cost benefit analyses, but that's what happens when we try to pare the costs of doing anything to the bone. All the unintended consequences come out, and, in essence, the insidious bad habits that underly all accidents are largely allowed to operate. To the point that people believe, because they rarely get caught, that it must be OK. We know they think like that, because they think the same way about speed limits - "but officer, I wasn't exceeding the speed limit, how can I have been driving too quickly for the conditions?".

Personally, I'd like to see the current driving test as the entry point to driving - a chance to hone your solo driving skills to the point where, a year or so later, you might be ready to take the full driving test. I suspect that, even if we subsidised it to the point of letting people do it (first go at least) for free, we'd save money on the carnage and hassle that shoddy driving causes. Maybe we could get the insurance companies to support the funding - it'd save them a lot of money too.

And then enforce the laws. All of them. Properly. Catch people, but respond proportionately. First offence of texting while driving - remedial driving course (at driver's expense) and a stiff warning. Second offence - throw the book at them. Etc.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 15, 2018)

£500 and six points. Self funding.


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## BigTom (Apr 15, 2018)

Also prosecute from third party video footage - dash cams, bike cams, mobile phones - there's enough people genuinely fucked off by mobile phone usage now to film and send it in and i think you'd get enough people prosecuted that way to have an actual effect, by creating a fear of prosecution.


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## Dogsauce (Apr 15, 2018)

It’s not just the concentration thing with mobiles, I often encounter people turning into side roads badly (cutting the corner turning from right or going over the centre from the left) because they’re only using one hand to steer, with the other clamped to the side of their head. A real danger if you’re sat near the centre line on a bike waiting to turn right (especially as the reduced concentration means they might not notice a smaller vehicle). Had several close encounters like this. Dicks.


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## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

I somehow didn't even know that this was a thing, people actually driving (moving their cars) whilst texting. Have seen it at red lights. Am kind of terrified by this but also shouldn't be surprised.


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## Looby (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> I somehow didn't even know that this was a thing, people actually driving (moving their cars) whilst texting. Have seen it at red lights. Am kind of terrified by this but also shouldn't be surprised.


One of my colleagues was following another to a visit. He claims he pulled up behind her at lights and she had her phone in one hand and work iPad in the other. 

You can tell someone is on their phone from the head bob. Someone nearly hit me the other day as I was pulling into a petrol station and they hadn’t looked up for ages so weren’t slowing down.

Also recently is the bloke who was looking for something. Seatbelt off, head barely visible except when he popped up to check he was still on the road. It went on for a good 2-3 minutes. 

I don’t pretend I’m the best driver. I’m stroppy and people think I drive too slow (the speed limit) but I know I don’t take fucking stupid risks like these. Other people terrify me.


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## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

There was a poster campaign recently aimed at young pedestrians, really hard hitting one warning about not crossing roads whilst looking at your phone. I don't know if that worked but something similar for drivers would be a start.


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## plurker (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> I somehow didn't even know that this was a thing, people actually driving (moving their cars) whilst texting. Have seen it at red lights. Am kind of terrified by this but also shouldn't be surprised.


I see texting whilst moving  pretty much daily, and about once a week therell be someone watching TV/videos. I call them out on it if I get to pass them at lights but usually they either shrug or get aggressive.

One person the other day was slowly rolling forward  thru a red light, eyes down at phone and nearly hit my son's pram as the OH was pushing it at a crossing. I banged on the bonnet and the window  went down " I'm stopped at the red, what's your problem?"

YOU WERE NOT STOPPED YOU FUCKNOODLE, THAT'D BE THE ISSUE.

grrr.


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## George & Bill (Apr 15, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Most people will be aware that those other things are external to actually driving. You're not nearly so likely to accidentally get stoned while driving as you are to accidentally go too fast, and the same goes for texting. Driving faster than the speed limit, like tailgating, cutting people up, hogging the middle lane, etc., are all things people can do as an intrinsic part of their driving behaviour. Yet we only really focus on the speed thing, probably because it's technologically easier and cheaper to enforce.



This is bizarre post factum hair splitting. Going too fast, getting drunk before driving, and using a phone while driving are all things that people generally know when they're doing, and which many other people are understandably unhappy when they do. Yes, sometimes people speed accidentally, just likes sometimes they get behind the wheel the next morning after a heavy night, forgetting what's still in their bloodstream – but both are minority cases.

I'm going on about this because when I see people say things like 'there's too much emphasis on speed', while that may be technically true, it's a point that's almost never made in good faith. It's like when the gay marriage law was going through and a bunch of homophobes blabbed on about how 'it's just not the biggest priority now'. Yes, these things are not the biggest priority, but they're still significant, and if people genuinely want to move on to bigger but also more complex things then getting behind what ought to be a no-brainer consensus on this sort of thing would be a good way to start.

Except they won't do that, because 90% of the time, 'it's not the biggest priority' means 'I support something that's ultimately indefensible, but I'm too chickenshit to make a straight-up argument for it'.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

George & Bill said:


> This is bizarre post factum hair splitting. Going too fast, getting drunk before driving, and using a phone while driving are all things that people generally know when they're doing, and which many other people are understandably unhappy when they do. Yes, sometimes people speed accidentally, just likes sometimes they get behind the wheel the next morning after a heavy night, forgetting what's still in their bloodstream – but both are minority cases.
> 
> I'm going on about this because when I see people say things like 'there's too much emphasis on speed', while that may be technically true, it's a point that's almost never made in good faith. It's like when the gay marriage law was going through and a bunch of homophobes blabbed on about how 'it's just not the biggest priority now'. Yes, these things are not the biggest priority, but they're still significant, and people who genuinely want to move on to bigger but also more complex things should suck it up and quit whining.


Absolute nonsense. Getting drunk before driving, and using a phone whilst driving are both deliberate acts. Accidentally drifting slightly over the speed limit isn't a deliberate act, and it's very easily done.
Deliberate acts that endanger others are what we should be punishing.


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## George & Bill (Apr 15, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Absolute nonsense. Getting drunk before driving, and using a phone whilst driving are both deliberate acts. Accidentally drifting slightly over the speed limit isn't a deliberate act, and it's very easily done.
> Deliberate acts that endanger others are what we should be punishing.



Accidentally doing something is accidental – congrats on figuring that one out

Except as i pointed out, accidentally being over the limit is not impossible, and meanwhile, in 20 zones where everyone speeds, that is being done knowingly.

Again, you're splitting hairs to deflect attention from the fact you support maiming kids. Not exactly like a nonce. But not exactly unlike on either.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

George & Bill said:


> Accidentally doing something is accidental – congrats on figuring that one out
> 
> Except as i pointed out, accidentally being over the limit is not impossible, and meanwhile, in 20 zones where everyone speeds, that is being done knowingly.


How do you know it's being done intentionally? Are you in every car that does it?


----------



## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

Driving while texting / facebooking should be an instant ban.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

weltweit said:


> Driving while texting / facebooking should be an instant ban.


I agree. It should be similar sentencing to drink driving.


----------



## mojo pixy (Apr 15, 2018)

weltweit said:


> Driving while texting / facebooking should be an instant ban.



Instant 6 points, so twice = ban. Basically you get one chance to not do it again, if you do then fuck off.


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## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> Instant 6 points, so twice = ban. Basically you get one chance to not do it again, if you do then fuck off.


Why so lenient? It is an extremely dangerous thing to do, and amazingly stupid - 28d ban


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## George & Bill (Apr 15, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> How do you know it's being done intentionally? Are you in every car that does it?



If you have a situation where people are consistently speeding, they're either doing intentionally, or they're being careless.

As I've said before, I'm not for throwing the book at someone the first time they're caught doing 23 in a 20. I think the penalty should be progressive, starting gentle for small oversteps/first offences, but then ramping up steeply.


----------



## mojo pixy (Apr 15, 2018)

I think being caught once and having one more chance to change, is more of a motivator than just being outright banned first time. Even the _Causing Death _offences are only 11 points atm.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

weltweit said:


> Why so lenient? It is an extremely dangerous thing to do, and amazingly stupid - 28d ban


Why so lenient? It is an extremely dangerous thing to do.
6 month ban, then 12 months if you're caught doing it again, then a lifetime ban for a third offence.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

George & Bill said:


> If you have a situation where people are consistently speeding, they're either doing intentionally, or they're being careless.
> 
> As I've said before, I'm not for throwing the book at someone the first time they're caught doing 23 in a 20. I think the penalty should be progressive, starting gentle for small oversteps/first offences, but then ramping up steeply.


I'm sure a lot of people do intentionally break 20mph limits. Maybe a lot of them are doing it because they feel pressured to do it by those tailgating them.


----------



## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

I don't actually get why it is that for new drivers 6 points in your first 2 years means you lose your license but it isn't so for people who've been driving for years.


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## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Why so lenient? It is an extremely dangerous thing to do.
> 6 month ban, then 12 months if you're caught doing it again, then a lifetime ban for a third offence.


Well it should be publicised more - that though shall not do it - or else


----------



## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> I don't actually get why it is that for new drivers 6 points in your first 2 years means you lose your license but it isn't so for people who've been driving for years.


I didn't know about that .. is that the rule?


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## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

weltweit said:


> I didn't know about that .. is that the rule?


yep. Penalty points (endorsements): New drivers - GOV.UK
Why not make it like that for everyone is what I don't get. It helps focus the mind.


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## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> yep. Penalty points (endorsements): New drivers - GOV.UK
> Why not make it like that for everyone is what I don't get. It helps focus the mind.


Hmm ... I don't know. I didn't know it was the rule. 
But new drivers shouldn't be getting into bad habits.


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## George & Bill (Apr 15, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm sure a lot of people do intentionally break 20mph limits. Maybe a lot of them are doing it because they feel pressured to do it by those tailgating them.



Sure, which is why there should be a robust information and enforcement campaign for 20 zones, and why anyone who isn't a cunt should get behind them.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> yep. Penalty points (endorsements): New drivers - GOV.UK
> Why not make it like that for everyone is what I don't get. It helps focus the mind.


I think it's a good idea that new drivers get less slack. Mostly because I'm not a new driver


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## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

As long as the rules are clear and drivers know what is expected of them. 

For example I don't think people should be excited about 80mph on a dry non busy motorway in good visibility. But 40 in a 30 in a built up area you should expect to be punished.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

George & Bill said:


> Sure, which is why there should be a robust information and enforcement campaign for 20 zones, and why anyone who isn't a cunt should get behind them.


I personally don't think 20 zones should exist, but that's another story.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 15, 2018)

There should be regular re-tests every 3-5 years in order to keep the license, just a cut-down practical test. But, fail and you're back to a provisional license and having to do the full test again, theory and practical.


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## planetgeli (Apr 15, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> There should be regular re-tests every 3-5 years in order to keep the license, just a cut-down practical test. But, fail and you're back to a provisional license and having to do the full test again, theory and practical.



Oh c'mon. Interesting your post ends with the word 'practical' when your suggestion is about the least practical idea there could be.


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## mojo pixy (Apr 15, 2018)

What's impractical about it? I don't see that, but I can't say I've exactly planned it out. I do know almost nobody will agree, especially drivers 

But is that what _impractical _means, _Nobody would agree so it can't work_. I'm not convinced that consensus is necessarily the best way to make laws, where road safety is concerned.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> There should be regular re-tests every 3-5 years in order to keep the license, just a cut-down practical test. But, fail and you're back to a provisional license and having to do the full test again, theory and practical.


I think that's a bit OTT. Not least because every street in England would need a test centre on it in order to achieve this.


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## existentialist (Apr 15, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> There should be regular re-tests every 3-5 years in order to keep the license, just a cut-down practical test. But, fail and you're back to a provisional license and having to do the full test again, theory and practical.


I've often thought that would be a good thing for all drivers. In my Utopian paradise, drivers would be encouraged to develop their skills with training, IAM-style observed runs, etc, along with regular tests. People who didn't want to do training could carry on driving, but with various restrictions on what they could drive, etc. People who did might enjoy discounts on insurance, I dunno, reduced road tax, etc.

It's a bit weird, when you think about it. We take people through a very basic training and not very many hours of driving, all with an instructor, then we get them to take a test and say "off you go." It's a bit like finishing medical school and suddenly finding yourself in an operating theatre doing surgery. Pass Plus is a nice idea, but I think it should be integrated into a general "driver skills improvement" approach, with a combination of mandatory and voluntary aspects to it.

I'd probably ban fewer people, too. Sure, for deliberate (subject to the differences in what some of us consider "deliberate") offending, like drink driving, a ban's perfectly in order. But I don't like the "totting up" ban - it seems unhelpful to address someone's routinely substandard driving by depriving them of the opportunity TO drive. I reckon a totting up ban should involve a regular attendance at naughty driver school, where you're trained and tested to show you've improved. And if you haven't, then out with the banhammer.


----------



## mojo pixy (Apr 15, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I think that's a bit OTT. Not least because every street in England would need a test centre on it in order to achieve this.



Not _every street_, come on. A lot more, yes, but not _millions_.

EtA, it'd also create loads of jobs, staffing the centres and running the tests etc, so win-win really.


----------



## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

As it is now there was over a month to wait every time I had to book a driving test, because they're that busy. I don't think regular tests for the whole driving population is the answer.  But tighten it up so you know that you risk losing your car if you do one big mistake seems reasonable.


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## existentialist (Apr 15, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I think that's a bit OTT. Not least because every street in England would need a test centre on it in order to achieve this.


I suspect that a significant chunk of the 45 million active driving licences in the UK would cease to be active not very long after the test regime began...

I'm in sums mode. Let's say (worst case) 45 million drivers. Let's be generous, and suggest testing every 10 years. So that's 4.5 million drivers per year.

In 2016/7, nearly 1.75m driving tests were conducted (incidentally with a pass rate of a bit over 47%). So yeah, you'd need to quadruple the existing provision to account for it. But is that such a terrible thing? In any case, as autonomous vehicles become more of a reality, self-driving is likely to become something of a niche activity, so you might quickly find that you were 10 year testing drivers at not very different a rate than we're currently testing new ones.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

Personally I wish the police would focus more on driving that is dangerous, so speeding in built up areas, driving while talking on a hand held mobile, texting while driving, tailgating and or undertaking on a motorway..  drink or drug driving, those sort of things ..


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

weltweit said:


> undertaking on a motorway..


People who sit in the outside lane of a motorway and force others to undertake them. They're worse than Hitler and should be banned without any warning.


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## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

Undertaking.. what is that?


----------



## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> Undertaking.. what is that?


When someone comes past you on the inside (left hand side) on the motorway.


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## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

weltweit said:


> When someone comes past you on the inside (left hand side) on the motorway.


What is so bad about that that you include in the list of really bad dangerous things?


----------



## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> What is so bad about that that you include in the list of really bad dangerous things?


Other drivers don't expect people to whizz up the inside and if they move to the left at the same time it can cause a nasty accident. 

It is because it isn't allowed in the UK that it is dangerous, in America you can over or undertake, it makes no odds, but at least there you are expecting it.


----------



## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

Hmm. Its dangerous because its not allowed. I don't really understand that one, I know you're not meant to go faster than the cars on your right but it doesn't seem on the same level as the other driving crimes.


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## planetgeli (Apr 15, 2018)

Undertaking IS allowed in the UK if the traffic on the lane to the right is slow moving or stationary.

However, it might be considered careless driving in certain circumstances. It’s dangerous because, even when undertaking a middle lane hogger, they have already proved themselves to be a shit driver so might also not indicate to move back into the left lane.


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## mauvais (Apr 15, 2018)

As a rule, if you get passed on the left, you yourself are probably doing something wrong. Not always but usually.


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## mauvais (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> Hmm. Its dangerous because its not allowed. I don't really understand that one, I know you're not meant to go faster than the cars on your right but it doesn't seem on the same level as the other driving crimes.


It's important to the free & safe flow of traffic that people return to the left when not overtaking. Once you start passing on the left you actively prevent that from happening and become part of the problem. Plus as others have said, safety relies on expectation and this is not expected.


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## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

mauvais said:


> As a rule, if you get passed on the left, you yourself are probably doing something wrong. Not always but usually.


I don't agree with you. I have been stuck in a queue in the fast lane, waiting for someone driving slowly at the front to move over and people have come past on the left seeing if they could make a move and queue barge. They couldn't they just had to wait like the rest of us.


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## mauvais (Apr 15, 2018)

weltweit said:


> I don't agree with you. I have been stuck in a queue in the fast lane, waiting for someone driving slowly at the front to move over and people have come past on the left seeing if they could make a move and queue barge. They couldn't they just had to wait like the rest of us.


You won't like this, but if you were stuck in a queue waiting to overtake then you weren't overtaking anything and should have stayed left. There is a balance to strike but ultimately when everyone decides to do the same, everyone has to end up in the rightmost lane and the other lanes are entirely empty except for the two vehicles at the front, which is obviously wrong.

Also there's no such thing as the fast lane, but that's a greater degree of pedantry.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 15, 2018)

mauvais said:


> You won't like this, but if you were stuck in a queue waiting to overtake then you weren't overtaking anything and should have stayed left. There is a balance to strike but ultimately when everyone decides to do the same, everyone has to end up in the rightmost lane and the other lanes are entirely empty except for the two vehicles at the front, which is obviously wrong.


That is a cop out, I had to wait for the cars in front to move over and so should the vehicle behind me who was themselves staying in the outside lane up until it found itself behind the small queue when it thought it could undertake.

It can be frustrating when all three lanes are blocked, even if they are progressing at a reasonable rate, but that does not permit attempted undertaking.


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## mauvais (Apr 15, 2018)

weltweit said:


> That is a cop out, I had to wait for the cars in front to move over and so should the vehicle behind me who was themselves staying in the outside lane up until it found itself behind the small queue when it thought it could undertake.
> 
> It can be frustrating when all three lanes are blocked, even if they are progressing at a reasonable rate, but that does not permit undertaking.


Moving to the left to pass is a different and significantly worse thing to staying in lane and passing traffic once it slows.

Dense queues - high speed or otherwise - aren't really what I mean though.


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## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

I basically don’t understand the right hand lane of a 3+ lane motorway. If everyone followed the Highway Code rules as written then nobody would ever be in that lane, ever. Which would be a waste of road.


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## planetgeli (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> I basically don’t understand the right hand lane of a 3+ lane motorway. If everyone followed the Highway Code rules as written then nobody would ever be in that lane, ever. Which would be a waste of road.



It's for overtaking.


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## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> It's for overtaking.


Yeah but the rules say, be in the left lane, unless you’re overtaking, then get back in the left.
This should be in the learning to drive thread shouldn’t it .


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## planetgeli (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> Yeah but the rules say, be in the left lane, unless you’re overtaking, then get back in the left.
> This should be in the learning to drive thread shouldn’t it .



If someone is overtaking in the middle lane, and you wish to overtake both them and the inside lane, that's what the right hand lane is for. Then you move back to the left.

Also ; Audis


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## bimble (Apr 15, 2018)

It’ll be a while before I set foot in any right hand lanes. They’re not for the likes of me.


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## planetgeli (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> It’ll be a while before I set foot in any right hand lanes. They’re not for the likes of me.



You'll soon get used to driving at 70mph. 

You do know lorries are largely restricted to 60mph? And all aren't allowed in the right hand lane? So if you get a lorry doing 58 in the inner lane, and a lorry overtaking that one at 60mph in the middle lane, and taking about 3 miles to do so, you'll soon find yourself in the right hand lane.


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## mauvais (Apr 15, 2018)

The speed limit is 60 but lorries are restricted to 56 by EU law, often less by their companies like 52, and often capable of even less when fully laden and faced with an incline.


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## existentialist (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> I basically don’t understand the right hand lane of a 3+ lane motorway. If everyone followed the Highway Code rules as written then nobody would ever be in that lane, ever. Which would be a waste of road.


Ideally, the 2nd and 3rd lanes are both lanes in which we should temporarily find ourselves only when overtaking vehicles in the lanes to the left of us. In practice, that doesn't happen a lot. But it should.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> I basically don’t understand the right hand lane of a 3+ lane motorway. If everyone followed the Highway Code rules as written then nobody would ever be in that lane, ever. Which would be a waste of road.


Once you start driving on the motorways, even at legal speeds, you will understand why there are three lanes.


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## BigTom (Apr 16, 2018)

Whilst we're talking motorway lanes, why is it that on the new smart motorways, when they open the hard shoulder as a traffic lane to add a 4th lane, and there's big signs saying to use the hard shoulder, is hardly anyone in there? 

They've been around a while and i think it's signed really clearly but even lorry drivers (who i feel should be hearing about the way smart motorways work through work even if they've none near them) barely use it.


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## bimble (Apr 16, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Once you start driving on the motorways, even at legal speeds, you will understand why there are three lanes.


I've been on them, but only left and middle lane so far. Maybe next time will watch closely and understand the mystery of the right hand lane.


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## not-bono-ever (Apr 16, 2018)

Drove down into mid kent yesterday - does everyone outside London have a fucking newish audi on HP  and are they legally obliged to sit right on top sit of arse of my shitty car on country roads these days ?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 16, 2018)

mauvais said:


> The speed limit is 60 but lorries are restricted to 56 by EU law...



This time next year the UK will be 4mph faster


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 16, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> Drove down into mid kent yesterday - does everyone outside London have a fucking newish audi on HP  and are they legally obliged to sit right on top sit of arse of my shitty car on country roads these days ?



Mine's not on HP, if that helps


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 16, 2018)

Its the first time that Audis have fucked me offn to this degree  TBH-utterly dangerous behaviour by all of them. I didn't brake test them as I didn't  get the feeling they were on the case enough to avoid an accident. Awful awful people. I bet they have an Audi community leader who periodically appeals for calm when some audi driver gets a rightly deserved kicking  or they are responsible for a huge accident to add to their list of cuntery actions. Awful.

/ furious


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 16, 2018)

Was driving down this road yesterday afternoon:



I was waiting behind what would be the red car shown here, but square in the lane rather off to the left like a parked car. The wait for a gap to pass was quite a long one, but I'm a patient driver. A number of cars built up behind me, them some bloke in a Dacia decides to overtake me and go for it, in spite of the fact that an white Audi was about where that van was. So Dacia screeches to a halt, but can't move in behind the red car, nor can he go back as the car behind him had now inched up behind me. So we're all stuck. That was fun.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 16, 2018)

Dacia striking back against the Audi menace


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## bimble (Apr 16, 2018)

It's a scientifically proven fact that people in expensive cars are worse more selfish and aggressive drivers.( I really like these sort of studies)
eg 
Higher social class predicts increased unethical behavior


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## planetgeli (Apr 16, 2018)

^

They’ve missed an ‘n’ out on the labelling of the y axes on those graphs.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 16, 2018)

BigTom said:


> Whilst we're talking motorway lanes, why is it that on the new smart motorways, when they open the hard shoulder as a traffic lane to add a 4th lane, and there's big signs saying to use the hard shoulder, is hardly anyone in there?
> 
> They've been around a while and i think it's signed really clearly but even lorry drivers (who i feel should be hearing about the way smart motorways work through work even if they've none near them) barely use it.


The hard shoulder is always full of debris, like bolts, etc, which will easily put a hole in a tyre. That's why smart people don't drive on the hard shoulder.


----------



## BigTom (Apr 16, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> The hard shoulder is always full of debris, like bolts, etc, which will easily put a hole in a tyre. That's why smart people don't drive on the hard shoulder.



If this was an issue, it would have shown up in the smart motorway trials / usage.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 16, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> The hard shoulder is always full of debris, like bolts, etc, which will easily put a hole in a tyre. That's why smart people don't drive on the hard shoulder.


Yebbut, that isn't an inherent property of hard shoulders, so much as them being lanes that people break down in and don't get swept clear by passing traffic embedding the detritus in their own tyres. If other people were to use them, it would make the lane clearer and more suitable for us to be able to


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 16, 2018)

BigTom said:


> If this was an issue, it would have shown up in the smart motorway trials / usage.


Except, as you said yourself, hardly anyone uses them when they are open for use.



existentialist said:


> Yebbut, that isn't an inherent property of hard shoulders, so much as them being lanes that people break down in and don't get swept clear by passing traffic embedding the detritus in their own tyres. If other people were to use them, it would make the lane clearer and more suitable for us to be able to


Indeed, but I'd rather not be the one using my tyres to remove bits of AA leftovers from the lane. I'll let someone else do that


----------



## BigTom (Apr 16, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Except, as you said yourself, hardly anyone uses them when they are open for use.



There's still been enough traffic for a statistical difference to show up, especially now with the M6 (and some other places I think). M42 trials didn't show any problems.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 16, 2018)

BigTom said:


> There's still been enough traffic for a statistical difference to show up, especially now with the M6 (and some other places I think). M42 trials didn't show any problems.


Cool... off you go, then. But I've seen what gets left on hard shoulders and what it can do to tyres, so I won't be using them unless I have no other choice.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 16, 2018)

People don't like them cos they fear smashing in to a broken down car that the traffic controllers have not yet noticed. The other thing is that people know they'll have to move out of that lane soon once it gets closed off again, so they don't bother going there in the first place, a bit like on the M25 where the inside lane ends at every junction, it hardly gets used.


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 17, 2018)

I told two drivers to put down their phones this morning - even at crawling pace they couldn't drive straight so were easy to spot.
I may have to revisit my idea of pulling out a comedy inflateable ... this morning the concept gained a magnetic base so it could be stuck on the roof for all to see ...


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 17, 2018)

I've driven the full length of the M1 a lot of times. And I'm always amazed the drop in lane discipline the further south I am. 

The only thing I can think (other than southerners are shit drivers) is that the density of junctions on all roads in the south is higher and therefore people tend to keep out of the left hand land as it is often used as a splitting off lane or to make room for joining.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 17, 2018)

it always spooks me when I get further north - always expecting the worst from other drivers but find that people actually LET YOU IN and WAVE BACK  when you indicate to do so.


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## mauvais (Apr 17, 2018)

I probably have similar experiences on major routes, but driving standards in central Manchester/Salford are significantly worse than anywhere else I've lived. Loads of people jumping red lights, all sorts.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 17, 2018)

Part of the problem in the south-east is the pace of life, and most people always being in a rush.

Having lived in the SE, the West Country & the Republic of Ireland, the different in the pace of life is remarkable and reflected in how people drive.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 17, 2018)

On the few forays I've made to the wild north it does seem that there are also fewer cars on the M1 the further up you go. Between London and Leicester it's pretty busy, so folk tend to stay in lane rather than moving over and having a hard time moving back out again a few minutes later.


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## Teaboy (Apr 17, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> I've driven the full length of the M1 a lot of times. And I'm always amazed the drop in lane discipline the further south I am.
> 
> The only thing I can think (other than southerners are shit drivers) is that the density of junctions on all roads in the south is higher and therefore people tend to keep out of the left hand land as it is often used as a splitting off lane or to make room for joining.



I've never noticed a geographical divide.  What I have noticed is day of the week divide.  When the weekend drivers hit the motorway you virtually have the inside lane to yourself, its great if you don't mind undertaking of course.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 17, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> I've driven the full length of the M1 a lot of times. And I'm always amazed the drop in lane discipline the further south I am.
> 
> The only thing I can think (*other than southerners are shit drivers*) is that the density of junctions on all roads in the south is higher and therefore people tend to keep out of the left hand land as it is often used as a splitting off lane or to make room for joining.


Try not to overthink it. You were spot on right there. 
London has the highest driving test fail rate in the country... 'cos they're shit


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 17, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> London has the highest driving test fail rate in the country...



bimble fucked our stats up


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## bimble (Apr 17, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Try not to overthink it. You were spot on right there.
> London has the highest driving test fail rate in the country... 'cos they're shit


This is incorrect. It’s actually because we’re really good at driving so they make the London tests harder and the examiners grumpier to level things out a bit.


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## Teaboy (Apr 17, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Try not to overthink it. You were spot on right there.
> London has the highest driving test fail rate in the country... 'cos they're shit



I passed my test in Stoke-on-Trent and it was a piece of piss.  The London roads are a nightmare compared for many reasons but it must be awful for learners trying to pass in London.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2018)

more people per square mile than everywhere else in england= more driving tests= higher fail rate

they probably sell the most takeways per weekend than anywhere else in the country as well, but its a numbers thing surely


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 17, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> more people per square mile than everywhere else in england= more driving tests= higher fail rate
> 
> they probably sell the most takeways per weekend than anywhere else in the country as well, but its a numbers thing surely


It's a percentage thing, not a numbers thing.


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## Teaboy (Apr 17, 2018)

London roads are the hardest roads I've driven on this country by a long way.  I mean this is terms of hazards and unusual junctions.  FWIW its not helped by a hell of a lot of London drivers being inconsiderate arses bit that's hardly the learners fault.


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## existentialist (Apr 17, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Part of the problem in the south-east is the pace of life, and most people always being in a rush.
> 
> Having lived in the SE, the West Country & the Republic of Ireland, the different in the pace of life is remarkable and reflected in how people drive.


The same is true coming back from France, where - particularly on the autoroutes - the standard of driving, and the density of traffic, is markedly higher, and lower, respectively. Then you arrive in Portsmouth and it's back to clawing your way out of the inside lane every time you want to overtake.


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## weltweit (Apr 17, 2018)

You should be able to admit your errors on this thread, and we all have them!

Yesterday I was distracted when reversing into a space and nearly backed into a bollard.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 17, 2018)

weltweit said:


> You should be able to admit your errors on this thread, and we all have them!
> 
> Yesterday I was distracted when reversing into a space and nearly backed into a bollard.


I almost hit a cyclist yesterday... but he got away.


----------



## planetgeli (Apr 17, 2018)

I did a 20 speed awareness course today, consequence of getting caught doing 25 on Lea Bridge Road on Boxing Day.

Largely a waste of time, learned about two minor things I didn’t know before. Best that can be said was that the instructor was non-judgemental and realistic, probably because he himself admitted to being caught recently.

Everyone was there under sufferance. Weirdly, though this course was in Swansea, five of the eleven people there had been caught on the same camera, Lansdowne Lane (?) in Bath! Several people had travelled up from Bristol for the course.

Not sure why I bothered, just to keep a 25 year license clean (first offence). Apparently the insurance hit is only 10%. This wouldn’t have been worth it if my employer wasn’t still paying me for the ‘sick’ day. Apparently most people who take the course are on 9 points so avoiding a ban. Though that didn’t appear true for this course. Oh. And we’d all paid different amounts, ranging from £92 to £100. How does that justify itself?

Boring as hell.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 17, 2018)

The cost is basically the same as the fine if you take the points. It is unlikely that anyone there was on nine points though, you may be offered a course once every three years, after that no courses so you then start to accumulate points if you don’t slow down. It is boring, but I found small amusement in watching the belligerent twonks being arse with the two instructors who could not give a shit.


----------



## T & P (Apr 18, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> I've driven the full length of the M1 a lot of times. And I'm always amazed the drop in lane discipline the further south I am.
> 
> The only thing I can think (other than southerners are shit drivers) is that the density of junctions on all roads in the south is higher and therefore people tend to keep out of the left hand land as it is often used as a splitting off lane or to make room for joining.


In Spain the lane discipline is far, far worse, and middle lane hoggers much more common. But as you suggest it is linked to the number and density of junctions. The prevailing multi lane road there is the autovia, which is a watered down motorway and can have up to several junctions/ joining lanes per mile around densely populated areas. So the ‘slow’ lane there can be a bit of a nightmare to stick to.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 25, 2018)

Fantastic article on the work of traffic cops here: Crash detective - driven to his death



> David Evans had been working the Christmas Day shift monitoring CCTV at a power station on the south Wales coast.
> 
> In a gesture of seasonal goodwill, a colleague had told him to leave early and get home to his family; he'd take over from here.
> 
> ...


----------



## bimble (Apr 25, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Take them off for a few days and see how you get on. It'll be interesting to hear what you think about that.


I've tried this now and am going to put them on again for big drive tomorrow. Definitely feels like people give me bit more space with the P plates on, probably because they're aware that I might do something stupid at any moment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 25, 2018)

bimble said:


> I've tried this now and am going to put them on again for big drive tomorrow. Definitely feels like people give me bit more space with the P plates on, probably because they're aware that I might do something stupid at any moment.


or, in driver parlance, take the p


----------



## bimble (Apr 25, 2018)

P is for patience required.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 25, 2018)

P is for pootling along.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 25, 2018)

bur never pillock


----------



## marty21 (Apr 25, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> I did a 20 speed awareness course today, consequence of getting caught doing 25 on Lea Bridge Road on Boxing Day.
> 
> Largely a waste of time, learned about two minor things I didn’t know before. Best that can be said was that the instructor was non-judgemental and realistic, probably because he himself admitted to being caught recently.
> 
> ...


I got that course for Lea Bridge Road , had to do the thing in Islington though . Lansdown Lane in Bath is pretty steep and just after a 60 mph  road.  Not that I am defending those disgraceful Bath speeders .


----------



## hash tag (Apr 26, 2018)

Parked car? What parked car?
Drink-driver films journey on dashcam


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 26, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Parked car? What parked car?
> Drink-driver films journey on dashcam


Fuck me! She should have got bird for that.


----------



## mx wcfc (Apr 26, 2018)

Slightly off topic, but a colleague's daughter's driving instructor fell asleep during her third ever driving lesson last weekend.    He has been dumped.  They are debating dobbing him in it.


----------



## plurker (Apr 27, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Parked car? What parked car?
> Drink-driver films journey on dashcam



Finally an Audi is seen to be of some benefit to road safety, instead of the usual...


----------



## souljacker (Apr 27, 2018)

mx wcfc said:


> Slightly off topic, but a colleague's daughter's driving instructor fell asleep during her third ever driving lesson last weekend.    He has been dumped.  They are debating dobbing him in it.



My instructor fell asleep during one of my lessons. I'd just accelerated up to about 50 as we'd hit a country road. I turned to him and asked what the speed limit was and woke him up. I laughed at the time.


----------



## hash tag (May 1, 2018)

Terribly sad and I am sure no one thought anything like this would happen. Was it even on purpose?
Hilda, 95, left fatally ill after cars splash her with puddle


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 1, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Terribly sad and I am sure no one thought anything like this would happen. Was it even on purpose?
> Hilda, 95, left fatally ill after cars splash her with puddle


Of course it was on purpose. I've spent my driving life avoiding puddle/people combinations, and managed, so far, to never drown a pedestrian. 
People who deliberately drown pedestrians should be banned for life. Cyclists are a different story. They're fair game.


----------



## mojo pixy (May 5, 2018)

Just drove home from town (Bristol - Kingswood), I was behind some guy who was talking on his phone. Warm day, all windows open, I yelled at him to get off his phone, at first he ignored me but I did it again and again and the pavement was busy so other people were starting to look at him. Finally he got off the phone and sped away at over 30 (busy Saturday morning shopping road, 20 zone to boot). In the end when we stopped at a red light (I arrived a few seconds behind him) he actually leaned out and asked me if I was a copper and told me to mind my own business.

Fair comment, but I still told him to learn to drive like a grown up before he kills someone. He sped off again, this time at 40 in a 30 zone 

Driving lolz


----------



## hash tag (May 7, 2018)

"P"could be for poser >>>>  Is the Range Rover Sport the apex in arsehole wheels  ?

What is the world coming to? Man stabbed 'after motorist is confronted by residents over his driving'


----------



## hash tag (May 8, 2018)

Some people are just so selfish and expect to be able to park anywhere and get away with it. Really? Outcry after fire engine gets parking ticket


----------



## existentialist (May 8, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Some people are just so selfish and expect to be able to park anywhere and get away with it. Really? Outcry after fire engine gets parking ticket






			
				East Grinstead councillor said:
			
		

> A PCN was issued. However, since then it has come to our notice that the fire crew were on official duty...


...errr, wut?

I mean, if you see a fire engine parked on the street, is the natural assumption "oh, I expect they've just popped out for a little ride to the shops, maybe just enjoying the view, grab a packet of fags, maybe have a nice latte in the coffee shop"?

Or might one think "Oh, a fire engine. I expect there's a crew somewhere doing their job"?

Just seems to me that slapping a ticket on a fire engine is a monumentally stupid thing to even think of doing. Although it would have been funnier if they'd towed it away.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 8, 2018)

existentialist said:


> ...errr, wut?
> 
> I mean, if you see a fire engine parked on the street, is the natural assumption "oh, I expect they've just popped out for a little ride to the shops, maybe just enjoying the view, grab a packet of fags, maybe have a nice latte in the coffee shop"?
> 
> ...



Should've clamped it.


----------



## existentialist (May 8, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Should've clamped it.


I expect they'd run out of the special clamps you need for fire engines and ambulances, having spotted and dealt with several parked outside hospitals and fire stations, and near the sites of calamities.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 10, 2018)

There’s a contraflow bike lane in Leeds which the police have a habit of parking in, never with any sign of an emergency. Wish someone would ticket them as it’s a particularly twatty place to do it given you have to ride into oncoming traffic to get around them, plus there’s parking spaces opposite.


----------



## Poi E (May 11, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> London roads are the hardest roads I've driven on this country by a long way.  I mean this is terms of hazards and unusual junctions.  FWIW its not helped by a hell of a lot of London drivers being inconsiderate arses bit that's hardly the learners fault.



London drivers are some of the best I have experienced, and I find them to generally be pretty considerate (e.g. the coordinated letting people out of junctions by drivers in both directions. Such courtesy is not regularly displayed outside of London, IME.) We're a patient lot by and large!


----------



## hash tag (May 12, 2018)

Another warning bimble Don't drive whilst tired Shocking footage shows 'sleeping driver' crashing into lorry on A14


----------



## bimble (May 12, 2018)

hash tag don't, i'm scared enough as it is to be fully alert when in the car, no horror stories required.


----------



## hash tag (May 12, 2018)

Don't be afraid but, be aware, there are many stupid thingshappening out there, as you are starting to find out!


----------



## T & P (May 12, 2018)

Skillz


----------



## hash tag (May 13, 2018)

If it wasn't for the bloody cyclists, this would never have happened. A close shave for sure


----------



## hash tag (May 17, 2018)

Another one for an ambulance! Man threatens to 'smash' ambulance


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 17, 2018)

Ambulances should be made to use the multi-story like the rest of us. Fire engines too. And as for the Coastguard and them Mountain Rescue people, they take the fucking piss, parking willy-nilly all over the countryside


----------



## hash tag (May 17, 2018)

Pushing a stretcher with a sick person on it up 10 or more ramps could be a new Olympic sport.


----------



## hash tag (May 17, 2018)

They do work, a bit Speed awareness courses more effective than penalty points


----------



## hash tag (May 18, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse ...audi drivers 

6 attempts at a breath test after doing 114

Breath test jockey in 114mph police chase


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 18, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Bahnhof Strasse ...audi drivers
> 
> 6 attempts at a breath test after doing 114
> 
> Breath test jockey in 114mph police chase



Anyone would be puffed out after doing 114!


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 18, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Bahnhof Strasse ...audi drivers
> 
> 6 attempts at a breath test after doing 114
> 
> Breath test jockey in 114mph police chase





> In mitigation, the court was told by Deutsch's lawyer he was a "sensible young man" who had "done something remarkably stupid".



Not a great defence, as doing the stupid thing proves he's far from sensible!


----------



## twentythreedom (May 27, 2018)

Not so much driving as taste. But just look at it  A black faux velvet wrapped Merc. The state of it.


----------



## T & P (May 28, 2018)

I reckon you could strike a match on it


----------



## blairsh (May 28, 2018)

Do you think instead of washing it they just use a giant lint roller?


----------



## weltweit (May 28, 2018)

There must be more to this story: 

Will Young handed driving ban after car crash

Will young gets driving ban


----------



## The Boy (May 28, 2018)

weltweit said:


> There must be more to this story:
> 
> Will Young handed driving ban after car crash
> 
> Will young gets driving ban



Already had 11 points and a conviction for drink driving as explained in the article.  I'm amazed anyone would think the case wouldnt lead to a ban tbh.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 28, 2018)

Don’t see that a twenty year old drink drive has any relevance, but 11 points and another 5 = six month ban.

11 points, not divisible by three, so probably another careless driving in there somewhere...


----------



## kebabking (May 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Don’t see that a twenty year old drink drive has any relevance, but 11 points and another 5 = six month ban.
> 
> 11 points, not divisible by three, so probably another careless driving in there somewhere...



Yeah, to get 11 points you've got to drive like a cunt. No sympathy from Chez Kebabking...


----------



## twentythreedom (May 28, 2018)

blairsh said:


> Do you think instead of washing it they just use a giant lint roller?


It's shit isn't it. Looked fucking awful from a distance (why would you do that to your car ffs?) let alone close up


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 28, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> Not so much driving as taste. But just look at it  A black faux velvet wrapped Merc. The state of it.
> 
> View attachment 136536 View attachment 136537


I don't think the owner thought that one through very well.


----------



## twentythreedom (May 28, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I don't think the owner thought that one through very well.


How did they get to the stage of thinking "yeah, that fake velvet is just the job. My car will look awesome and people will see me driving it and think I'm cool"


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 28, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> How did they get to the stage of thinking "yeah, that fake velvet is just the job. My car will look awesome and people will see me driving it and think I'm cool"



A corduroy wrap, that’s what you need in 2018.


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 28, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> How did they get to the stage of thinking "yeah, that fake velvet is just the job. My car will look awesome and people will see me driving it and think I'm cool"


The mind boggles. I couldn't imagine anything worse you could wrap it in.

A Where's Wally wrap would be cool, but you'd have little cunts circling him in black marker if you left it parked anywhere.


----------



## T & P (May 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Don’t see that a twenty year old drink drive has any relevance, but 11 points and another 5 = six month ban.
> 
> 11 points, not divisible by three, so probably another careless driving in there somewhere...





kebabking said:


> Yeah, to get 11 points you've got to drive like a cunt. No sympathy from Chez Kebabking...



I love it when my Spanish friends and relatives complain about the points system, which was introduced in Spain just a few years ago and it’s so much more lenient. You start with 15 points and have them deducted for certain infractions. Incredibly, drink driving doesn’t necessarily get you an automatic ban, or at least it didn’t use to, and unless you’re properly hammered they just take some points away


----------



## The Boy (May 29, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Don’t see that a twenty year old drink drive has any relevance, but 11 points and another 5 = six month ban.
> 
> 11 points, not divisible by three, so probably another careless driving in there somewhere...



I'm of an age that I work out how long ago something happened by counting back from 2000.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 29, 2018)




----------



## hash tag (Jun 7, 2018)

If this is filmed on a gopro camera why are the pictures being filmed at very different angles and from behind the wheel?
Drivers' fury as elderly man drives mobility scooter down busy dual carriageway


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 7, 2018)

i present:

the south london full road width three/five/seven point turn at rush hour on a busy carriageway

thread winner


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 9, 2018)

Admit to killing someone on the roads: 12-month community order and banned from driving for 18 months.

Driver avoids jail after admitting causing cyclist's death


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 26, 2018)

Do 70 in a 40 zone and kill someone: community order and lose your license for a whole year.

Driver killed pedestrian while speeding at 70mph in 40mph zone | The Argus


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 26, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> Do 70 in a 40 zone and kill someone: community order and lose your license for a whole year.
> 
> Driver killed pedestrian while speeding at 70mph in 40mph zone | The Argus



That's disgusting. 

I do understand that sometimes shit does just happen, everyone suffers momentary lapses of concentration and so on, those are the risks of life. 

When someone flouts the law so blatantly and as a direct result they kill someone, I can see no reason why a hefty prison sentence shouldn't follow, the type which for most people would be 'life-changing'.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 26, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> Do 70 in a 40 zone and kill someone: community order and lose your license for a whole year.
> 
> Driver killed pedestrian while speeding at 70mph in 40mph zone | The Argus



That's shocking.


----------



## IC3D (Jun 26, 2018)

I guess he could afford a good lawyer


----------



## hash tag (Jun 26, 2018)

It was on the day of his birthday


----------



## Sapphireblue (Jun 26, 2018)

if that isn't prison time then it should at least be a life-time ban ffs. 6am or not, 70 in a 40 is clearly dangerous.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 26, 2018)

Its a disgrace.  Its absolute madness that this sort of thing is not even close to being properly punished.


----------



## Mrs D (Jun 26, 2018)

I was also shocked by this after reading the article so decided to have a closer look.

The incident happend here, on a dual carriageway coming up to a national speed limit zone. 

Google Maps

A death by dangerous driving charge would have required the standard of driving to have fallen far below that of a competent driver. 

I am not so sure that 70mph at that location does so.

Given the location and the fact the pedestrian would have presumably been crossing the road in the dark, obviosuly the court felt that a custodial sentence wasn’t appropriate.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 26, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> I was also shocked by this after reading the article so decided to have a closer look.
> 
> The incident happend here, on a dual carriageway coming up to a national speed limit zone.
> 
> ...



I don't think you have the location right there, the report says near the Lancing Manor roundabout, it's some distance from the roundabout before the limit increases from 40 to 70 mph.

I know that road well, it's not far from me, I tend to avoid it & use the coast road instead, but you shouldn't being doing anything like 70 mph on that part of the A27, it's basically a residency area, hence the 40 mph limit.


----------



## Mrs D (Jun 26, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I don't think you have the location right there, the report says near the Lancing Manor roundabout, it's some distance from the roundabout before the limit increases from 40 to 70 mph.



You can see the incident markers in the road: Huge delays on A27 after pedestrian hit by car


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 26, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> You can see the incident markers in the road: Huge delays on A27 after pedestrian hit by car



OK, that's slightly further from the roundabout than I had assumed, but only just outside the residential area, he must have 'floored it' well within the residential area, to be hitting 70 mph at that point - still some distance before leaving the 40 mph zone.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 27, 2018)

What a waste. Woman destroys Ferrari in seconds after declaring the supercar "amazing"


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 27, 2018)

what a fucking moron- it is pissing down, its a busy road, you are filming with your phone, you have never driven something like this before and you turn the TC off.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 27, 2018)

as we all know, you get used to a car before you put your foot down and try the frank cannon tyre squealing action. even my vredstein budget DPRK made rear rubber needs to be warmed up before I can open up my 1.8i Zetec .

I see she rented it from a dealer. lolz. lets hope the insurance was spot on. else it is going to be even messier


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 27, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> I see she rented it from a dealer. lolz. lets hope the insurance was spot on. else it is going to be even messier



Do you reckon she'll be able to hide the damage by parking it against a wall when she returns it, or will she be kissing her (hopefully quite substantial) deposit goodbye?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 27, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Do you reckon she'll be able to hide the damage by parking it against a wall when she returns it, or will she be kissing her (hopefully quite substantial) deposit goodbye?



Just return it out of hours, drop the keys in the box and swear blind it was tip-top when you left it.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 27, 2018)

I had to T cut a renty car in Monetengro and then do an 15 mins  worth of seriously dusty track handbrake turn driving action to hide the trees branch  scratches down the flanks .


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 27, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> what a fucking moron- it is pissing down, its a busy road, you are filming with your phone, you have never driven something like this before and you turn the TC off.




Not entirely sure why you can have the option of turning the TC off in most cars. Very few people could handle that Ferrari with it turned off. My own car's manual states that you should never turn it off under any circumstances or it will become undriveable, so why have a fuck off tempting button right there allowing you to do just that???


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 27, 2018)

everyone thinks they are a great driver with skillz. the TC button is an insult to them


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 27, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> everyone thinks they are a great driver with skillz. the TC button is an insult to them



I have heard people say similar regarding seat belts; "if you need to put on a seat belt you are saying you're such a poor driver you will crash."

Humanities rich tapestry must include these types of utter moron I guess.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 27, 2018)

I have had this in the Balkans & caucuses - putting on a seat belt is an insult to the drivers skillz. I have been in cars where they are not present - seemingly removed


----------



## 2hats (Jun 27, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> I have had this in the Balkans & caucuses - putting on a seat belt is an insult to the drivers skillz. I have been in cars where they are not present - seemingly removed


I had the same advice when hitchhiking in Turkmenistan - don’t put the seatbelt on or risk offence. Fortunately the driver who picked me up drove with the handbrake engaged all the time so no great speed was attained lurching along the mean streets of Ashgabat.


----------



## DownwardDog (Jun 27, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not entirely sure why you can have the option of turning the TC off in most cars. Very few people could handle that Ferrari with it turned off. My own car's manual states that you should never turn it off under any circumstances or it will become undriveable, so why have a fuck off tempting button right there allowing you to do just that???



In the Ferrari 458 you can turn the Manettino to CST OFF which disable all ECU (fuel/ignition) based TC but it still will use the brakes to try and arrest an egregious slide but it (obviously) doesn't always work.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 27, 2018)

2hats said:


> I had the same advice when hitchhiking in Turkmenistan - don’t put the seatbelt on or risk offence. Fortunately the driver who picked me up drove with the handbrake engaged all the time so no great speed was attained lurching along the mean streets of Ashgabat.






At Udapiur airport last year we pre-paid the cab and followed the driver to the car park. He got in and inched it forward away from the puddle of vomit by the rear passenger door, then said to my daughter, "Don't worry about the seat belt, it's not needed in India." 

Knowing the catastrophic death toll on India's roads kind of made us doubt his claim, but I think what he was trying to say was, the seat belts  are fucked.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 27, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Its a disgrace.  Its absolute madness that this sort of thing is not even close to being properly punished.



A company director, presumably one from the same lodge as the sentencing judge.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 27, 2018)

hash tag said:


> What a waste. Woman destroys Ferrari in seconds after declaring the supercar "amazing"




You’re missing the good news aspect in this story:



> A White BMW X3 was also damaged


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 27, 2018)




----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 2, 2018)

I witnessed to ultimate in twattery yesterday - shorts, trainers and T shirt clad fool on a big KTM on the M2- staring at his phone much of the time and filming himself popping wheelies between lanes at serious MPH

he probably has an Audi for M-F commuting


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 2, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> I witnessed to ultimate in twattery yesterday - shorts, trainers and T shirt clad fool on a big KTM on the M2- staring at his phone much of the time and filming himself popping wheelies between lanes at serious MPH
> 
> he probably has an Audi for M-F commuting


Sounds like he's just upgraded from a cycle.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 2, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> I witnessed to ultimate in twattery yesterday - shorts, trainers and T shirt clad fool on a big KTM on the M2- staring at his phone much of the time and filming himself popping wheelies between lanes at serious MPH
> 
> he probably has an Audi for M-F commuting


That's some skillz, pulling a wheelie and recording it on your phone. Respect to that man!


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 2, 2018)

I know, fuck knows how he was doing it without spilling  - its not something I have seen  before. He was keeping his phone down his sock when not in use. madness


----------



## Poi E (Jul 2, 2018)

Look at the bright side. He'll be dead soon.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 2, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> I witnessed to ultimate in twattery yesterday - shorts, trainers and T shirt clad fool on a big KTM on the M2- staring at his phone much of the time and filming himself popping wheelies between lanes at serious MPH
> 
> he probably has an Audi for M-F commuting





Poi E said:


> Look at the bright side. He'll be dead soon.




Yup.
..hope he's an organ doner. 
Anyone doing something that thick should at least have the decency to carry a doner  card.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 2, 2018)

Good job they can’t do brain transplants, can’t imagine his is up to much.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 2, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> Yup.
> ..hope he's an organ doner.
> Anyone doing something that thick should at least have the decency to carry a doner  card.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 2, 2018)

existentialist said:


>



Donor....I meant Donor.
Sun getting to me.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 2, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> Donor....I meant Donor.
> Sun getting to me.


 I couldn't resist. Well, I did, for ages, but then I succumbed!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 2, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I couldn't resist. Well, I did, for ages, but then I succumbed!




It was funny


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 19, 2018)

Jesus fucking Christ, 20 minutes ago I came within a smidge of featuring in the memorial pages.

Half way up this hill from where the picture was taken to the brow, doing 50 which is the limit, a transit van crests the hill on my side of the road, overtaking a Fiat 500 which was also doing 50, so the van was doing around 70 (at least according to Fiat driver). Slamming on the anchors whilst steering towards the ditch on the left, the van didn't move back to his lane at all, he didn't react in time. Had I not done so I would have hit it at 120mph.



Skidmarks on the road and in my pants.

The Fiat driver stopped, the van didn't.

Stay safe peoples.


----------



## OzT (Jul 19, 2018)

Lucky you mate, good reactions!


----------



## hash tag (Jul 19, 2018)

Lets hope the van driver was suitably shocked and has learnt from it.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 19, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Lets hope the van driver was suitably shocked and has learnt from it.


Or at least didn't spend the next hour ranting in his head about idiot car drivers not getting out of his way, because he does, after all, Own The Road.

One way or another, if he's making a habit of this, he's going to come unstuck - not everyone's going to be quite as good at getting out of the way as Mr Strasse. The only sadness is that, when people learn by their mistakes in this way, they usually take someone else with them.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 20, 2018)

They’ll be praying you didn’t have a dashcam. Give it a couple of years and these will be pretty standard/common, I wonder what that might do to the level of dickheadery on the roads? Though given the police tend not to be terribly interested in offences captured by cyclists, will it be any different for car camera footage? Will idiots in a rush/red mist think about doing stupid shit knowing they might be caught on camera, or are they likely to carry on safe in the knowledge that the police will make their usual excuses not to do their job?


----------



## a_chap (Jul 20, 2018)

Good grief Dogsauce you even manage to turn Bahnof's experience into another anti-cycling rant 

FWIW I have a dashcam in my car and it's not made the slightest difference to the level of fuckwittery from other drivers.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 20, 2018)

Why would a dash Cam make a difference. Even if you had a big sign on your car saying you had a dash Cam I doubt it would make a difference. It serves to prove a pointing the event of an accident....


----------



## hash tag (Jul 20, 2018)

I like this, but only in the North East for now https://inews.co.uk/essentials/life...t-text-campaign-dangers-mobile-phone-driving/


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 20, 2018)

Anybody caught using a phone whilst driving should be banned for a minimum of 2 years (with a jail term for repeat offenders), and a minimum £5000 fine. As it stands, the punishment is far too lenient, and worthless as a deterrent.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 20, 2018)

Death, will stop them


----------



## a_chap (Jul 20, 2018)

Unfortunately death will stop the people they crash into as well


----------



## BigTom (Jul 20, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Why would a dash Cam make a difference. Even if you had a big sign on your car saying you had a dash Cam I doubt it would make a difference. It serves to prove a pointing the event of an accident....



If enough people have dash/head cams and police prosecute regularly from such video evidence, then drivers would assume that anyone else might be filming and they will get done for their failures on the road. The massive group of drivers who do not follow rules or pay proper attention because they do not fear getting caught will disappear, and some of the shit drivers who are currently on our roads will have their licences taken away, sooner or later any loon driver will get caught and prosecuted. That then leaves the mostly ok but fucked up that time drivers who it's really hard to stop in any way, since that's basically anyone at some point or another (regular training/testing is probably the best imo).


----------



## weltweit (Jul 20, 2018)

I just had a moment myself today. 

Approaching a T junction with a larger road but on a corner. 

A 4x4 coming from the left indicating to turn right and cross my path but they stopped early as if to let me out of the small side road. 

Nothing else coming from right left right again, I started to pull out when a car arrived from the right going at a pace. As soon as I had clocked him I stopped and hadn't emerged from my side road so he went past without issue, but looking to the right earlier I hadn't seen him. Could have been nasty.

Once he had gone the 4x4 stayed back as if to let me out, which had been the issue in the first place, so I went. 

Not the most elegant of navigating the roads there has ever been.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 23, 2018)

I managed to pull out on two people today coming onto dual carriageways, one in the blind spot and one just going mentally fast. Both moved into other lane so wasn’t that close, but still. Slip roads in Portugal can be ridiculously short which makes it even more difficult driving a RH drive car here.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 24, 2018)

I hadn't thought about that problem with RHD in Europe. Guess I've only driven where merging lanes are decent. Sounds like you need a Range Rover for those sort of roads.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 26, 2018)




----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 26, 2018)

^^^ On the roads is the only time I could ever wish to be a filth.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 26, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> ^^^ On the roads is the only time I could ever wish to be a filth.


Some bike cops are actually OK... for cops.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 26, 2018)

BigTom said:


>



Brilliant


----------



## BigTom (Jul 26, 2018)

Stuff happens from just after 1minute in (and also nothing more happens at the end there's just extra at the start and the end because this was submitted to police who want that.)

I've lost the tweet this came from but the cyclist themselves was on twitter and said they were issued an FPN for the RLJ and no idea what was happening with the driver, and the police said were trying to contact the bus company and no-one was calling them back, I assume he will be prosecuted for this.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 26, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Some bike cops are actually OK... for cops.



Yeah. As much as I'm ACAB, road traffic plod are generally OK, as they are obsessed with not having to knock on parents' doors to deliver the news that their kid is dead. And the bikers mostly deal with other bikers, so have an affinity.

All of them would still smash your skull at Orgreave though, never any room for complacency.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 26, 2018)

BigTom said:


> Stuff happens from just after 1minute in (and also nothing more happens at the end there's just extra at the start and the end because this was submitted to police who want that.)
> 
> I've lost the tweet this came from but the cyclist themselves was on twitter and said they were issued an FPN for the RLJ and no idea what was happening with the driver, and the police said were trying to contact the bus company and no-one was calling them back, I assume he will be prosecuted for this.



Nice to see the bike rider getting a FPN


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 26, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> ^^^ On the roads is the only time I could ever wish to be a filth.


I’d want to be a plod that smashes up raves and arrests the cunts that organise them.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 26, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> I’d want to be a plod that smashes up raves and arrests the cunts that organise them.


I'd want to be at one of those raves


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 26, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> I’d want to be a plod that smashes up raves and arrests the cunts that organise them.



Yeah, but you'd never catch 'em, cos those people are smart, young and full of guile, wit and street-sense, and you're a wanna-be pig.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 26, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah, but you'd never catch 'em, cos those people are smart, young and full of guile, wit and street-sense, and you're a wanna-be pig.


And there's a fair to strong chance that skidmaster would defecate in his pants and miss the whole operation.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 27, 2018)

I nearly got run over on a zebra crossing the other day by some twunt predominantly featuring a dashcam in his windscreen...... I doubt that one made it onto youtube.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 27, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> They’ll be praying you didn’t have a dashcam. Give it a couple of years and these will be pretty standard/common, I wonder what that might do to the level of dickheadery on the roads? Though given the police tend not to be terribly interested in offences captured by cyclists, will it be any different for car camera footage? Will idiots in a rush/red mist think about doing stupid shit knowing they might be caught on camera, or are they likely to carry on safe in the knowledge that the police will make their usual excuses not to do their job?



I doubt the filth have the manpower to trawl through large amounts of footage. Then there's court time, several local courts were earmarked for closure on parliament's last day of term.

I don't drive that often but I reckon one journey in three I witness a piece of driving that should be worth an instant ban. More 'minor' stiff like speeding, changing lanes without indicating, cutting people up; there's no point even counting how many times you see that.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 27, 2018)

I don't know whether dash cam footage is admissible in court.	My g/f's dad an incident where someone in a van reversed into him at very low speed then blamed him and tried to claim all sorts of injury compensation.  Anyway after that he got a dash cam and his insurer said they are useful but not admissible in court.  Could have been talking bollocks of course.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 27, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> I don't know whether dash cam footage is admissible in court.	My g/f's dad an incident where someone in a van reversed into him at very low speed then blamed him and tried to claim all sorts of injury compensation.  Anyway after that he got a dash cam and his insurer said they are useful but not admissible in court.  Could have been talking bollocks of course.



hundreds of drivers (probably into the thousands by now) have been convicted using cycle cam footage under operation close pass by various police forces so I think they are talking bollocks.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 27, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I doubt the filth have the manpower to trawl through large amounts of footage. Then there's court time, several local courts were earmarked for closure on parliament's last day of term.
> 
> I don't drive that often but I reckon one journey in three I witness a piece of driving that should be worth an instant ban. More 'minor' stiff like speeding, changing lanes without indicating, cutting people up; there's no point even counting how many times you see that.



They're not exactly trawling through footage though, drivers/riders send them footage with an incident timed/marked so they just watch a small bit of each video then if something happened that might be worthy of action they'll watch the all the video. It's a reasonable amount of hassle to report (in that you have to go to a police station to get a form then give them the footage on a USB stick you'll never get back) which discourages people just giving in every bit of video they record and only submitting the more serious stuff.
I get the impression it's a really easy way to rack up convictions in terms of staffing/costs


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 27, 2018)

BigTom said:


> hundreds of drivers (probably into the thousands by now) have been convicted using cycle cam footage under operation close pass by various police forces so I think they are talking bollocks.



Yes, or maybe a different standard applied to insurance claims and the law and general criminality.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 27, 2018)

BigTom said:


> hundreds of drivers (probably into the thousands by now) have been convicted using cycle cam footage under operation close pass by various police forces so I think they are talking bollocks.



That's coppers recording video footage of an offence though. Not quite such strong evidence when it's a random nutter off the streets doing the recording. A good starting point for a prosecution, but would normally need the perp to bubble himself up once confronted with the video.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 27, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That's coppers recording video footage of an offence though. Not quite such strong evidence when it's a random nutter off the streets doing the recording. A good starting point for a prosecution, but would normally need the perp to bubble himself up once confronted with the video.



No, it's third party video footage. (edit: as well as their own but anyone getting pulled by the police gets a roadside education session and only prosecuted if they refuse to accept what they did wrong or the police find secondary offences)



> Having already spent the previous three years experimenting with 3rd party reported video prosecutions, at the same time as the inception of #OpClosePass, two years ago, both officers also took it upon themselves to extensively test the 3rd party video evidenced prosecution concept on a basis that could be used to bring about wholesale driver behavioural change. Over 350 successful prosecutions later the work stream, that most said could never be done, just like many said #OpClosePass could never be done, now sits with the West Midlands Police Traffic Process Office. They are taking it to even greater levels that should see 3rd party reported prosecuted offences become an integral part of our plans to create a safer road going environment for all the residents of the West Midlands region.



Op ClosePass Evolution

Almost everyone has accepted the offence on seeing the video, there's a handful (3 I think) that challenged it, and they were all convicted in court of driving without due care and attention, I think it was on twitter I saw them say that so not going looking for it, but I can remember the first two - one car driver, got 4 points and around £1,000 in fines and costs, one 7.5t driver got 5 points and around £1,000 in fines and costs.


----------



## mauvais (Jul 27, 2018)

Dashcam footage isn't of an evidentiary standard so wouldn't automatically be useful in court, I don't know about inadmissible. Lots of work went into making things like speed cameras, congestion charging cameras etc evidentiary quality so that there'd be no such challenges.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jul 30, 2018)

> Road users are now able to submit footage of dangerous driving to police in England and Wales, using a platform set up by a dashcam manufacturer. The website allows visitors to upload videos before sending footage to the right police force. It also redirects visitors to those forces with their own submission websites. One road safety charity called the website a "fantastic initiative, which couldn't be more timely".
> 
> Dashcam video submission site goes live


Submit Dash Cam Footage To Police | Nextbase


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 30, 2018)

I reckon if footage was somehow submitted to a panel created by the insurance companies that might have more impact - higher premiums, possibly a refusal of cover or insistence on a ‘black box’ for blatant idiocy or inattention. Imagine the wails of injustice.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 30, 2018)

pinkychukkles said:


> Submit Dash Cam Footage To Police | Nextbase



I want to know more about this, if it's not going directly to police that could be an issue, as police only have 14 days to issue a notice of intended prosecution, so I'd want to know any submission will be acting on immediately.
For now if I have anything I'm still going to a police station to submit it personally.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 23, 2018)

A lesson learned; don't call someone wearing a pink shirt effiminate, especially if he is driving a range rover!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 23, 2018)

hash tag said:


> A lesson learned; don't call someone wearing a pink shirt effiminate, especially if he is driving a range rover!




I love how shit actual real-life fights are.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 23, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I love how shit actual real-life fights are.


Someone needs to dub some impact sounds on, TBF.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 23, 2018)

The best fights are between pro cyclists, who have no upper body strength and literally couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.


----------



## Looby (Aug 23, 2018)

I’ve seen some right fucking idiots recently but the winner was the twat who reversed back up a slip road (quite fast) and nearly hit me because there was tailbacks on the road she was joining. 

Yesterday I was parking at my friend’s house and there was a couple sat in their car where I wanted to park. There was a huge space but not quite enough room either side of them to get in so I waved and asked if they were going. The driver said they weren’t so I asked if he’d mind moving a bit forward or back. He shouted no then said his car had broken down. He was a bit rude but fair enough. I struggled on then when I’d managed to just about park, he fucking drove off. Prick!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 23, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Someone needs to dub some impact sounds on, TBF.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 23, 2018)

Looby said:


> I’ve seen some right fucking idiots recently but the winner was the twat who reversed back up a slip road (quite fast) and nearly hit me because there was tailbacks on the road she was joining.
> 
> Yesterday I was parking at my friend’s house and there was a couple sat in their car where I wanted to park. There was a huge space but not quite enough room either side of them to get in so I waved and asked if they were going. The driver said they weren’t so I asked if he’d mind moving a bit forward or back. He shouted no then said his car had broken down. He was a bit rude but fair enough. I struggled on then when I’d managed to just about park, he fucking drove off. Prick!


Next time, pop a couple of caltrops down, just to make sure


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 24, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


>




Fucks sake gramps.  How many times have you been told to hold a key between your knuckles?  Mum will not be happy.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 5, 2018)

I know it's not a record, but all the same, 39 points 
Footballer fined £96k for driving offences


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 5, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I know it's not a record, but all the same, 39 points
> Footballer fined £96k for driving offences



In the same vein...

David Beckham employs 'Mr Loophole' lawyer to fight speeding charge



> David Beckham has employed the lawyer known as Mr Loophole as he fights a speeding charge.
> 
> The former England captain has accepted that he broke the speed limit in a borrowed Bentley - but is challenging the case on a technicality.
> 
> ...




How can you prove when a non-registered letter arrived?


----------



## hash tag (Sep 5, 2018)

Well, given how many homes he probably has, he was probably living somewhere else at the time!


----------



## existentialist (Sep 5, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> In the same vein...
> 
> David Beckham employs 'Mr Loophole' lawyer to fight speeding charge
> 
> ...


The way the law on this works is that service is deemed to have taken place 3 (I think) days after the date of posting. There are exceptions for the situation where the letter gets posted to, eg. a hire company who then has to forward it on to the driver.

What has usually happened in previous cases (I did make rather a careful study of this when I seemed to be collecting rather a few of these ) is that the police (or "road safety unit") can be somewhat dilatory in sending out the letters, and the usual test for service-within-period is that the letter has to have been sent (and presumably dated) within 9 days of the alleged offence being committed.

All that said, I will laugh like a drain at another footballer not getting away with it, especially if he's decided to be at home to Mister Tricksy in order to try and wriggle out of it.

FTR, I don't seem to collect NIPs nearly so often now. I've a feeling they've blacklisted me


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 5, 2018)

existentialist said:


> FTR, I don't seem to collect NIPs nearly so often now. I've a feeling they've blacklisted me




((((YOU))))

I'll pass on some of mine.  *altruism*


----------



## existentialist (Sep 5, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> ((((YOU))))
> 
> I'll pass on some of mine.  *altruism*


Actually, it's because I don't dash around so much, and have got used to the local regime (mobile patrols rather than GATSOs).


----------



## hash tag (Sep 5, 2018)

In Beckham's case I would be having words with the PA who has not been sending these letters on to him.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 6, 2018)

hash tag said:


> In Beckham's case I would be having words with the PA who has not been sending these letters on to him.



He's claiming the car was on loan from Bentley and the letter arrived at Bentley a day late, thus removing himself from a possible perjury and setting a minion up for that fall.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 6, 2018)

Bentley's huh, you just don't know who you can trust these days!


----------



## hash tag (Sep 12, 2018)

Here's one that copped a fine and ban. Someone had thrown up in the car! What's a professional sportsman doing drinking, yet alone to such excess?
Hugo Lloris fined and banned for being more than twice over drink-drive limit


----------



## BigTom (Sep 12, 2018)

It's a shame they've sped this up really, as I think it'd be comical enough at normal speed. I love how the driver filming just keeps going like nothing out of the ordinary happened


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 12, 2018)

I've just come back from shopping, and whilst driving into town I saw one of the scariest things ever.
I was driving behind a car, and the driver of the car pulled across to the other side of the road. I thought she was pulling into a petrol station but she passed the petrol station and continued to drive on the wrong side of the road. This went on for about 200m, so I pulled alongside her, looked across, and she was looking down at the phone on her lap and typing on it. I couldn't believe my fucking eyes. She wasn't looking at the road at all. Then I noticed a unit and 40 foot trailer heading straight towards her, so I blew my horn but she still didn't take her eyes off the phone. I kept blowing my horn until she eventually looked across at me, and I pointed at the truck heading straight at her, at which point she swerved back across onto into my lane, narrowly missing the front of the truck and closely missing the front of my car, before leaving the road, climbing a grass bank and somehow managing to get back on the road, whilst missing a lamp post by mere inches, then carried on driving, like nothing had happened.
I can't believe anyone could be so fucking stupid and reckless.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 12, 2018)

Poor Ferrari, but you have got to laugh. 







Ferrari crashes en-route to Goodwood Revival


----------



## Enviro (Sep 12, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I've just come back from shopping, and whilst driving into town I saw one of the scariest things ever.
> I was driving behind a car, and the driver of the car pulled across to the other side of the road. I thought she was pulling into a petrol station but she passed the petrol station and continued to drive on the wrong side of the road. This went on for about 200m, so I pulled alongside her, looked across, and she was looking down at the phone on her lap and typing on it. I couldn't believe my fucking eyes. She wasn't looking at the road at all. Then I noticed a unit and 40 foot trailer heading straight towards her, so I blew my horn but she still didn't take her eyes off the phone. I kept blowing my horn until she eventually looked across at me, and I pointed at the truck heading straight at her, at which point she swerved back across onto into my lane, narrowly missing the front of the truck and closely missing the front of my car, before leaving the road, climbing a grass bank and somehow managing to get back on the road, whilst missing a lamp post by mere inches, then carried on driving, like nothing had happened.
> I can't believe anyone could be so fucking stupid and reckless.



Get her number plate? That's so bad I would be keen on reporting it. It sounds like it's only a matter of time before they seriously injure (or kill) themselves and/ or someone else.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 12, 2018)

Enviro said:


> Get her number plate? That's so bad I would be keen on reporting it. It sounds like it's only a matter of time before they seriously injure (or kill) themselves and/ or someone else.


I didn't get her number. I was just glad neither of us died.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 12, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Poor Ferrari, but you have got to laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mazda drivers are a menace and should be avoided.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 12, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I didn't get her number. I was just glad neither of us died.



You did other road users a disservice by letting her live.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 12, 2018)

Poi E said:


> You did other road users a disservice by letting her live.


True story.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 12, 2018)

BigTom said:


> It's a shame they've sped this up really, as I think it'd be comical enough at normal speed. I love how the driver filming just keeps going like nothing out of the ordinary happened



Excellent. Hope it hurt.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 12, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> True story.



For real. I had the choppy camera work and thundering bass going on in my head.

ETA. Not taking the piss. Phone use is fucking frightening


----------



## mauvais (Sep 12, 2018)

BigTom said:


> It's a shame they've sped this up really, as I think it'd be comical enough at normal speed. I love how the driver filming just keeps going like nothing out of the ordinary happened


Because it's sped up and filmed on a potato, it's hard to tell, but they seem to have their brake lights on and not be slowing down.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 20, 2018)

New cameras, not just for speeding of for exceeding average speed, but also detects drivers who are eating, using phones and notcwearing seat belts!

New cameras on Gdynia Way - and they have extra powers


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 20, 2018)

hash tag said:


> New cameras, not just for speeding of for exceeding average speed, but also detects drivers who are eating, using phones and not wearing seat belts!
> 
> New cameras on Gdynia Way - and they have extra powers



I didn't know how the 'average speed check' cameras worked, and now I do, which is a good thing. Thanks!


----------



## hash tag (Sep 20, 2018)

Whoops.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 21, 2018)

That says you can be done for smoking, the act of smoking is not prohibited though, only if it leads to careless or worse driving. Same would apply to popping a Fruit Pastel in your gob.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 21, 2018)

15 months, he went through the cycle box on purpose, how can it be careless?


----------



## hash tag (Sep 21, 2018)

It doesn't make it right, but many drivers do and can be fined for doing so. 
15 months is a pittance for taking a life. 
These was talk of making the sentences tougher, though clearly not in this case.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 21, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That says you can be done for smoking, the act of smoking is not prohibited though, only if it leads to careless or worse driving. Same would apply to popping a Fruit Pastel in your gob.



If you can be done for smoking you should def be done for driving with a stinking cold, or having just had 2 hours sleep.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 21, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> 15 months, he went through the cycle box on purpose, how can it be careless?




from memory "careless driving" is "standard of driving falls below what is expected" and "dangerous driving" is "standard of driving falls far below what is expected". I might not have that verbatim but it's roughly the wording of the law

Big issue here is that almost every jury/judge/magistrate will be a driver and you can bet lots of them drive into ASBs all the time, so how many of them see this driving as falling (far) below what is expected? None basically, hence charges of "dangerous driving" don't get put forward by the CPS as they see "careless driving" as a more realistic chance of successful prosecution. Laws need changing.

I mean just look at this case: Judge lashes out at airport drop-off fees as he releases road rage driver | Metro News driver drives into car park attendant, carrying them on the bonnet, because they don't want to pay £3 charge. Judge gives a suspended sentence because judge thinks £3 charge is outrageous. wtf?


----------



## 8ball (Sep 21, 2018)

Just as a quick on-topic shout back to the OP, I drove from South Wales to Wiltshire a couple of weeks ago and just about everyone on the road was very competent, safe and considerate of other road users. 

At least when I was passing.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 21, 2018)

From Ms Roman's family:

After Northcott's conviction, Ms Roman's family called for motorists to be more vigilant of cyclists, especially around cycle boxes at junctions.

"We feel Karla was let down by the driver of the coach when he disregarded the cycle box, which resulted in this fatal incident", they said.

"We would appeal to any drivers reading this to think about your actions and respect the cycle box."

She was let down.

Seems that we are very conditioned to give a very lenient outlook to drivers whose wilful negligence kills.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 21, 2018)

8ball said:


> If you can be done for smoking you should def be done for driving with a stinking cold, or having just had 2 hours sleep.



HGV drivers are only allowed to drive for so many hours without taking a break, I suspect coach drivers also. Although it's dangerous for car drivers, it's unenforceable, at least at the moment. It should be up to the car driver and common sense.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 22, 2018)

Yes, coach/bus drivers are subject to the same driving hours rules as lorry drivers.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 22, 2018)

BigTom said:


> Yes, coach/bus drivers are subject to the same driving hours rules as lorry drivers.



Unlike lorries, coaches can use the third lane on a motorway, after all their cargo is not as precious as a truck load of baked beans...


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 22, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That says you can be done for smoking, the act of smoking is not prohibited though, only if it leads to careless or worse driving. Same would apply to popping a Fruit Pastel in your gob.


Same wit eating and pretty much everything else people do behind the wheel. The camera would have to prove undue care are attention.  Not sure how it’ll manage that.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 22, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Unlike lorries, coaches can use the third lane on a motorway, after all their cargo is not as precious as a truck load of baked beans...



I liked that post, then thought, didn't they change that?

Looks like it: Q590: What types of vehicles are not allowed in the outside lane on the motorway?


> a passenger vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver the maximum laden weight of which exceeds 7.5 tonnes;
> a passenger vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver the maximum laden weight of which does not exceed 7.5 tonnes, which is required to be fitted with a speed limite


----------



## hash tag (Sep 22, 2018)

I was in a coach 0n the A12 last weekend. The driver was happily driving down the outside lane of this three lane carriageway.
Motorways not allowed but A roads?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 22, 2018)

So this just driving without due care and attention and worth three points:


----------



## magneze (Sep 22, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> So this just driving without due care and attention and worth three points:



They should be embarrassed by that not fucking tweeting it.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 22, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> So this just driving without due care and attention and worth three points:



He's a marked man, now. If he ever gets caught doing something like that again, there's no way he'll be able to argue SMIDSY.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 24, 2018)

I'm surprised tbh as West mids traffic police have been sound and i'd expect a careless/dangerous driving charge for that but it's a cps decision i guess and the fact the cyclist avoided the collision *might* make it hard to get a higher charge to stick, i don't know the case law or the full wording of the law.

Still nice to see i can now report online and not need to go to the station


----------



## Mrs D (Sep 24, 2018)

West Mids police did go for a dangerous driving charge, but the CPS downgraded it because they like an easy life.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 24, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> West Mids police did go for a dangerous driving charge, but the CPS downgraded it because they like an easy life.



Cheers. As i've found out Careless driving is due care and attention, thought they were separate charges.
Was just looking for the law and found the cps charging guidelines



> The offence of dangerous driving under section 2 of the RTA 1988 is committed when a person's standard of driving falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver and it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mrs D (Sep 24, 2018)

It's the "far below" that is normally the problem. I guess as the cyclist managed to stay upright the CPS thought the standard of driving was not sufficiently far below as to be obviously dangerous.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 27, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> In the same vein...
> 
> David Beckham employs 'Mr Loophole' lawyer to fight speeding charge
> 
> ...



Well, he's done it. It's been accepted that the letter arrived a day late


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 27, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Well, he's done it. It's been accepted that the letter arrived a day late


It's nice when somebody beats the system. Hopefully it'll pave the way for normal folk.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 27, 2018)

Dream on.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 27, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Dream on.


Worked for me, about 20 years ago.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 27, 2018)

I think it's Mrs Strasse you should be speaking to.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 28, 2018)

Flaming hell; not one but two big fires on the M40 this morning. Looks like Armageddon!
Huge crash and fire shuts busy motorway during morning rush-hour


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2018)

Driver smashes into car as he checks phone

Dashcam and in-cab footage of a truck driver playing with his phone, ploughing in to a car, killing the driver of the car. Truck driver has just got 5 years. He knew that playing with his phone would lead to him killing someone, so why only 5 years? if you walk down the street loosing off shots from a gun and someone dies you get life. What's different here?


----------



## hash tag (Sep 28, 2018)

I agree with your sentiment, but, Killing someone in the street, or similar could be manslaughter. Didn't someone recently get a suspended for that.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I agree with your sentiment, but, Killing someone in the street, or similar could be manslaughter. Didn't someone recently get a suspended for that.



Manslaughter can attract a life sentence, there are massive variations in intent and/or actions within that offence. I feel that if you are doing something that has a very high probability of leading to someone's death then you are at the more serious end of the manslaughter spectrum and your sentence should reflect that.


----------



## Mrs D (Sep 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Driver smashes into car as he checks phone
> 
> Dashcam and in-cab footage of a truck driver playing with his phone, ploughing in to a car, killing the driver of the car. Truck driver has just got 5 years. *He knew that playing with his phone would lead to him killing someone*, so why only 5 years? if you walk down the street loosing off shots from a gun and someone dies you get life. What's different here?



I suspect if he knew that, he wouldn't have done it. It's not the playing with the phone that was the problem in itself - most new cars have touch screens in a similar position intended to be used while driving. The problem was that his attention was on the phone for 18 seconds without being on the road. 

If you'd asked the shotgun person in your example whether they intended to "walk down the street loosing off shots from a gun" they would say yes. If you'd asked this driver whether he intended to "spend 18 seconds looking at his phone and not the road" he'd probably have said no.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Manslaughter can attract a life sentence, there are massive variations in intent and/or actions within that offence. I feel that if you are doing something that has a very high probability of leading to someone's death then you are at the more serious end of the manslaughter spectrum and your sentence should reflect that.


I think he got off lightly because he pleaded guilty and showed remorse.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> I suspect if he knew that, he wouldn't have done it. It's not the playing with the phone that was the problem in itself - most new cars have touch screens in a similar position intended to be used while driving. The problem was that his attention was on the phone for 18 seconds without being on the road.
> 
> If you'd asked the shotgun person in your example whether they intended to "walk down the street loosing off shots from a gun" they would say yes. If you'd asked this driver whether he intended to "spend 18 seconds looking at his phone and not the road" he'd probably have said no.



If he'd missed the message that fucking about on your phone kills then he should not have been in possession of a driving licence. It's not as if the government has been keeping that bit of info a secret.

When he looked at his phone for 18 seconds, what do you think he was intending to do if it wasn't 'look at phone for 18 seconds'? Boil an egg or something?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I think he got off lightly because he pleaded guilty and showed remorse.




Yeah, probably. And that's shit an'all, only a twat of Katie Hopkins proportions could plead anything other than guilty with the footage. So that should count for nothing.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah, probably. And that's shit an'all, only a twat of Katie Hopkins proportions could plead anything other than guilty with the footage. So that should count for nothing.


I'm torn, because on the one hand I hate people who use phones whilst driving. They're far worse than Hitler. I wouldn't give a fuck if they were all involved in single vehicle accidents and died. That's how much I hate them. But on the other hand, I think the sentencing in this case was about right. Death by dangerous carries a 14 year max sentence. If you think of the worst possible case, where someone steals a massive truck, then uses it as a battering ram to push cars out of the way whilst trying to evade the cops, and kills 10 people in the process, then goes to court, pleads not guilty and shows no remorse, that's the 14 year end of the scale. This case is a far cry from that.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm torn, because on the one hand I hate people who use phones whilst driving. They're far worse than Hitler. I wouldn't give a fuck if they were all involved in single vehicle accidents and died. That's how much I hate them. But on the other hand, I think the sentencing in this case was about right. Death by dangerous carries a 14 year max sentence. If you think of the worst possible case, where someone steals a massive truck, then uses it as a battering ram to push cars out of the way whilst trying to evade the cops, and kills 10 people in the process, then goes to court, pleads not guilty and shows no remorse, that's the 14 year end of the scale. This case is a far cry from that.




tbf, although it is rarely used in UK courts, they do have the option of consecutive sentences, so 140 years would be the maximum there.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> tbf, although it is rarely used in UK courts, they do have the option of consecutive sentences, so 140 years would be the maximum there.


They do, but as you said, it's rarely used. It's almost always concurrent.
And if the person who stole the truck had a good brief, they'd probably get 8 years.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> They do, but as you said, it's rarely used. It's almost always concurrent.
> And if the person who stole the truck had a good brief, they'd probably get 8 years.



Lorry drivers jailed over fatal M1 crash

14 years for 8 lives taken, 21 months per life.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Lorry drivers jailed over fatal M1 crash
> 
> 14 years for 8 lives taken, 21 months per life.


That's a strange one. The only person actually driving at the time, the person who ran into the minibus and killed the passengers, got off the lightest.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> That's a strange one. The only person actually driving at the time, the person who ran into the minibus and killed the passengers, got off the lightest.



Yeah, at first glance it does seem strange, but did you read what that other cunt was up to though?


----------



## Mrs D (Sep 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> If he'd missed the message that fucking about on your phone kills then he should not have been in possession of a driving licence. It's not as if the government has been keeping that bit of info a secret.
> 
> When he looked at his phone for 18 seconds, what do you think he was intending to do if it wasn't 'look at phone for 18 seconds'? Boil an egg or something?



The message has been quite clear that using a hand-held mobile phone is a bad idea. The message has been that people should use a hands-free kit in order to use their mobile phone while driving.

My point was that your example of manslaughter involving someone firing off a shotgun has a different level of intent. The person couldn't argue that they didn't intend to walk down the street firing the gun, they can only argue that they didn't intend to shoot anyone. You can't be sitting at home intending to stay there, but then glance at your shotgun and become distracted such that you find yourself in the street firing it off without having had any prior intention to do so.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 28, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> I suspect if he knew that, he wouldn't have done it. It's not the playing with the phone that was the problem in itself - most new cars have touch screens in a similar position intended to be used while driving. The problem was that his attention was on the phone for 18 seconds without being on the road.
> 
> If you'd asked the shotgun person in your example whether they intended to "walk down the street loosing off shots from a gun" they would say yes. If you'd asked this driver whether he intended to "spend 18 seconds looking at his phone and not the road" he'd probably have said no.



The majority of touch screens that are being used while driving are smart phones. That is illegal. The phones should not be stuck to the windscreen in the line of vision, the majority are.
in our touchscreen car, the touch screen refuses to work above 5mph and that's exactly how it should be. Most touch screens are far to detailed to be safely operated while driving.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah, at first glance it does seem strange, but did you read what that other cunt was up to though?


Oh the other cunt definitely deserved locking up but what if the engine had blown up on the minibus, or it had to stop due to an accident or a traffic jam, or for some other reason. Then the only person at fault would have been the driver who ran into it. 
I wonder would he have got 14 years if he hadn't been drinking but stopped his vehicle on the motorway, got out and walked away, prior to the crash.
Fuck him anyway. Fuck them both. I think it should be illegal to use a phone whilst driving. Hands-free or otherwise.


----------



## Mrs D (Sep 28, 2018)

hash tag said:


> The majority of touch screens that are being used while driving are smart phones. That is illegal. The phones should not be stuck to the windscreen in the line of vision, the majority are.
> in our touchscreen car, the touch screen refuses to work above 5mph and that's exactly how it should be. Most touch screens are far to detailed to be safely operated while driving.



Most new cars have touchscreens to control basic functions such as the aircon and are designed to be used while driving. e.g.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 28, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> Most new cars have touchscreens to control basic functions such as the aircon and are designed to be used while driving. e.g.




That video actually demonstrates how they are NOT designed to be used while driving.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 28, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> Most new cars have touchscreens to control basic functions such as the aircon and are designed to be used while driving. e.g.




Ignoring last two posts, it's just wrong. You have to take your eyes off of the road for far to long to operate them.
For the air con, I guess, you have to come out of the screen you are in, then find the  air con option, then you have to adjust all the right areas with the right temperatures and then the right flow after that return to the screen you just left...far too much while you are driving.


----------



## T & P (Sep 29, 2018)

However there are lots of inconsistencies fallacious concepts of what constitutes dangerous or reckless behaviour in the law, which is why I’ve always been an advocate of pragmatism and common sense when it comes to applying it. And it deeply pisses me off when I hear about cases where a driver was penalised by an overzealous rozzer for a preposterous infraction.

Using one hand to take a couple of bites off an apple while stationary or even crawling a few metres forward at walking pace while queuing at a congested traffic lights is simply not dangerous at all in most circumstances.

Touching the screen of a smartphone correctly positioned on the dashboard that is *solely* being used as a satnav is blatantly no worse safety-wise than touching a purpose-built satnav device, regardless of the law saying you cannot do the former because it could also be used as a telecommunications device.

Yet one regularly reads about drivers being done for it, mostly in circumstances that are about as reckless as blinking at the wheel. That’s why any copper who actually issues a fine for either of those scenarios is a cunt in my book, and anyone who suggests such fines are always justified because the law says such actions are dangerous shows little comprehension of actual risk assessment imo.

Texting or calling while holding the phone in your hand is a cunt’s trick of course, and infractors should be punished and punished good.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 1, 2018)

Hey, guess what.....

Driver's shock as 'potty is emptied out of car window'


----------



## Poi E (Oct 2, 2018)

Complainant was foreign. Fake poos.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 12, 2018)




----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 12, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


>



That's nothing to do with being a motorist, it's about living in the right postcode and having a load of money. No doubt she knows someone who can pull strings, because a normal person would have got a much heavier sentence.
It's ironic that she's an advocate for road safety.

Excellent cyclist whataboutery, though


----------



## T & P (Oct 12, 2018)

How on earth is it even possible in this country to be disqualified for 10 days? Has there even been such as short disqualification before? Whatever happened to one year, six months or even two weeks?
 

Here's guessing the defendant is going on holiday just as the ban is due to start, and by an amazing coincidence the driving ban will have expired by the time her plane lands back at Heathrow.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 12, 2018)

T & P said:


> How on earth is it even possible in this country to be disqualified for 10 days? Has there even been such as short disqualification before? Whatever happened to one year, six months or even three months?
> 
> 
> Here's guessing the defendant is going on holiday just as the ban is due to start, and by an amazing coincidence the driving ban will have expired by the time her plane lands back at Heathrow.


There were definitely strings pulled. It's as if she sat with the judge and told him how she'd like to be punished, whilst they both threw darts at pictures of homeless people.


----------



## dervish (Oct 13, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Hey, guess what.....
> 
> Driver's shock as 'potty is emptied out of car window'



I used to work in care, looking after adults with autism and challenging behaviour. We were coming back after taking two of the clients out for a day out, I was in the back with a 24 y/o guy who was doubly incontinent and very, very athletic. As we are driving down the road he decides that he doesn't want to wear his now very wet nappy, before I fully realise what's going on he rips it off and flings it out the window. This would have been bad enough but he flung it directly into the back of the head of the poor pedestrian who happened to be walking along at the time. 

I'm not proud to admit that by the time I'd explained what had happened to the driver we were a fair distance away and we jointly decided that we would not go back and apologise (partially because my charge was getting quite excited and difficult to handle) nor would we tell anyone at work. I do feel sorry for the poor guy that got splatted though.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 13, 2018)

dervish said:


> I used to work in care, looking after adults with autism and challenging behaviour. We were coming back after taking two of the clients out for a day out, I was in the back with a 24 y/o guy who was doubly incontinent and very, very athletic. As we are driving down the road he decides that he doesn't want to wear his now very wet nappy, before I fully realise what's going on he rips it off and flings it out the window. This would have been bad enough but he flung it directly into the back of the head of the poor pedestrian who happened to be walking along at the time.
> 
> I'm not proud to admit that by the time I'd explained what had happened to the driver we were a fair distance away and we jointly decided that we would not go back and apologise (partially because my charge was getting quite excited and difficult to handle) nor would we tell anyone at work. I do feel sorry for the poor guy that got splatted though.



If he'd hit a cyclist with it Spymaster would have bought you a drink, a double most likely.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 28, 2018)

The number of hit-and-run crashes in England and Wales has risen by 45% in four years.

Hit-and-run crashes up by 45% in four years


----------



## Poi E (Oct 29, 2018)

That's mad. Dropped in Scotland, too.  Better reporting the police will say...


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 2, 2018)

> Some 10,964 drivers are still behind the wheel despite having accrued 12 or more penalty points on their licenses.
> 
> The DVLA figures record penalty points as of July, showing 254 drivers have at least 20 points, while 30 motorists have 30 or more points.



Nearly 11,000 people behind the wheel with 12 or more points


----------



## not-bono-ever (Nov 3, 2018)

Dozens fined for driving wrong way on M11

twats


----------



## planetgeli (Nov 17, 2018)

Steam engine hits car at level crossing

Steam train beats Mercedes at 8mph


----------



## hash tag (Nov 18, 2018)

Hope the steam engine is not too badly damaged.


----------



## T & P (Nov 21, 2018)

Driver loses licence after 49 minutes


----------



## hash tag (Nov 21, 2018)

On his way home from his driving test as well


----------



## not-bono-ever (Nov 21, 2018)

The Germans have a well regulated and nature system for traffic violations- including fining and banning foreign drivers for infringement on their soil - usually short term bans for smashing the speed limits etc but they do enforce them as people have found out when reentering Germany a month or two later


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 14, 2018)

Don't indicate and run someone over: 300hrs community service and banned from driving for a whole year. (He pled guilty)

Truck driver who hit and killed pregnant cyclist walks free


----------



## hash tag (Dec 14, 2018)

Says a lot of money in fees and the awful distress that a trial can cause the persons family


----------



## hash tag (Dec 16, 2018)

Hello, fire brigade; my car has got stuck up a tree, can you help? Crash car ends up vertical in tree


----------



## hash tag (Dec 17, 2018)

I am not sure which is worse...A McLaren Senna Mystery continues to surround McLaren horror crash as supercar is written off | Echo


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 18, 2018)

High-speed chase crash driver jailed

Stolen car: check
Speeds in excess of 120mph: check
Lost control, causing 4 vehicle pile up: check
Disqualified from driving at the time: check
Uninsured: check
On licence from prison for robbery, one of 34 previous convictions: check, check

18 months + 3 year ban.



ffs.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 18, 2018)

The 3 year ban will learn him for sure.  I can think we can safely say there is no chance he'll be pulling that trick again.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 3, 2019)

16 months for killing 2 people and now a 22 month ban for drink driving. He is fortunate not to have killed again and how long before he does kill again?
Death crash footballer in drink-drive ban


----------



## planetgeli (Jan 6, 2019)

He continued driving this (pissed) to the nearest service station.

Drink driver mangles Mercedes on hedge


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 6, 2019)

planetgeli said:


> View attachment 157930
> 
> He continued driving this (pissed) to the nearest service station.
> 
> Drink driver mangles Mercedes on hedge



Hit a hedge?

My arse!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 6, 2019)

hash tag said:


> 16 months for killing 2 people and now a 22 month ban for drink driving. He is fortunate not to have killed again and how long before he does kill again?
> Death crash footballer in drink-drive ban



How many chances does someone need? Booze wasn’t involved when he killed two people, but flagrant disregard for others was, same as the drunk driving.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 6, 2019)

a twat obviously. lifetime ban.defenestration.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 8, 2019)




----------



## souljacker (Jan 8, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> View attachment 158094



What a twat. Everyone knows you need to hang a bit of material off the end of the ladder.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jan 8, 2019)

souljacker said:


> What a twat. Everyone knows you need to hang a bit of material off the end of the ladder.



Or skew it a bit to get the other end out of the passenger window.

Maybe that's a ''police escort'' there in front


----------



## hash tag (Jan 8, 2019)

A Micra as well


----------



## T & P (Jan 8, 2019)

I don't think LiveLeak videos can be embedded on this site but I saw a clip today of a car in the US towing a motorcycle with a rope on a highway. Wasn't long before the man steering the bike lost control and ended up on the asphalt


----------



## Looby (Jan 10, 2019)

I was driving along a busy main road near my house and heard sirens behind me and an unmarked car coming up very fast. I indicated and pulled over when safe and the absolute penis behind me (in a BMW) doesn’t slow down at all and swerves past me and the car in front to overtake then swerves out again to try and stay in front of the car with flashing lights. I assumed this was a doctor car and maybe he did too but it was an unmarked police car. 

He doesn’t succeed and the car blocks him off and pulls him over as well as the van in front which I think was the original target. 

I moved past and could see him getting a bollocking. I hope they gave him a fucking ticket. Cunt.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 10, 2019)

^^^  happens quite a lot   ^^^ at least round these parts. The one that everyone will move for is a fire engine...see one of those huge monsters bearing down on you with blues and twos and
you'll move, no second thoughts.
The ones that get me are round these parts, we often get lots of convoys, ie two or three cars and two or three motorbikes sometimes many more acrrying a politician or diplomat. And quite often, the bikes will ride 
on ahead, stopping everything at traffic lights (red or green) and forcing everything out of their way....if only I dare get in their way!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 10, 2019)

hash tag said:


> The one that everyone will move for is a fire engine...see one of those huge monsters bearing down on you with blues and twos and
> you'll move, no second thoughts.



Except on motorways; years ago in the middle of the night I was bowling up the M3 at around 95 and came up behind a fire engine that had it's blue lights going, but was only doing around 80, guess that was its max speed. What's the etiquette here? I just overtook the fucker, did feel a bit rude though.


----------



## dervish (Jan 10, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Except on motorways; years ago in the middle of the night I was bowling up the M3 at around 95 and came up behind a fire engine that had it's blue lights going, but was only doing around 80, guess that was its max speed. What's the etiquette here? I just overtook the fucker, did feel a bit rude though.



I think if you overtake them you have to put the fire out.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2019)

Looby said:


> I was driving along a busy main road near my house and heard sirens behind me and an unmarked car coming up very fast. I indicated and pulled over when safe and the absolute penis behind me (in a BMW) doesn’t slow down at all and swerves past me and the car in front to overtake then swerves out again to try and stay in front of the car with flashing lights. I assumed this was a doctor car and maybe he did too but it was an unmarked police car.
> 
> He doesn’t succeed and the car blocks him off and pulls him over as well as the van in front which I think was the original target.
> 
> I moved past and could see him getting a bollocking. I hope they gave him a fucking ticket. Cunt.


Yeah, sorry about that. I dropped my joint on the floor and was trying find it under the seat. Probably should’ve stopped.


----------



## blairsh (Jan 10, 2019)




----------



## nogojones (Jan 10, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Except on motorways; years ago in the middle of the night I was bowling up the M3 at around 95 and came up behind a fire engine that had it's blue lights going, but was only doing around 80, guess that was its max speed. What's the etiquette here? I just overtook the fucker, did feel a bit rude though.


You know the Audi rules. You should have tailgated and flashed the idle fucker


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 14, 2019)

Thought there was another thread for the top gear bollocks.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 14, 2019)

Driving while uninsured in a car you can't see out off, killing a pedestrian = careless driving.  10 months . Man who killed doctor by careless driving jailed


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 14, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Thought there was another thread for the top gear bollocks.


All threads in this forum are threads for top gear bollocks.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 14, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> All threads in this forum are threads for top gear bollocks.


You know it makes you look like a colossal dickhead, right?.


----------



## a_chap (Jan 14, 2019)

Don't worry, he knows he's a colossal dickhead already. He has a certain Cockanee charm so we humour him.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 14, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> You know it makes you look like a colossal dickhead, right?.


You really think anyone cares?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 14, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> You really think anyone cares?


Exactly, might as well act the cunt.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 14, 2019)

Act?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 14, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Thought there was another thread for the top gear bollocks.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 14, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> You really think I care?


CFY


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 15, 2019)

Drink driving all day, twice over the limit and with a previous drink driving conviction, damaged 22 cars and killed his passenger = careless driving(not dangerous!). No idea if he was driving an Audi lol.

Drink driver killed partner by crashing into garage forecourt


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 15, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Drink driving all day, twice over the limit and with a previous drink driving conviction, damaged 22 cars and killed his passenger = careless driving(not dangerous!). No idea if he was driving an Audi lol.
> 
> Drink driver killed partner by crashing into garage forecourt


What's an "Audi lol" ?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 17, 2019)

Killing someone while stoned and over twice the speed limit?. You guessed it, careless not dangerous .

Cambridge graduate run over near home by cannabis driver


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 17, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> What's an "Audi lol" ?


It’s their new SUV. 

A direct challenger to the BMW WTF.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 17, 2019)

Duke of Edinburgh rolled his car earlier, walked away unhurt sadly


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 17, 2019)

twentythreedom said:


> Duke of Edinburgh rolled his car earlier, walked away unhurt sadly



He pulled out of a driveway into the path of an oncoming car driving along the A149, he should be done for careless driving, but somehow I doubt he will. 

Prince Philip unhurt after car crash - palace


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 17, 2019)

He should have to retake his driving test


----------



## hash tag (Jan 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> He pulled out of a driveway into the path of an oncoming car driving along the A149, he should be done for careless driving, but somehow I doubt he will.
> 
> Prince Philip unhurt after car crash - palace



I've gone back to the pictures...Phil's, presumably heavily armoured car, got rolled (not just knocked over) by a car that was much smaller than his car.
It must have been a hellva impact or Phil's car was not very stable


----------



## Dieselpunk2000 (Jan 19, 2019)

Meanwhile, in my neck of the woods this afternoon.....

 

Car misses shoppers as it hits The Range, Hereford


----------



## hash tag (Jan 19, 2019)

Oh dear, looks like top of the range CX3 or CX5....it wasn't ours!


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 19, 2019)

twentythreedom said:


> He should have to retake his driving test


No he shouldn't, he should just have his licence revoked.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 20, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> No he shouldn't, he should just have his licence revoked.


And then shot in the head


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 20, 2019)

Prince Philip has received a "ticking-off" by Norfolk Police after he was photographed not wearing his seatbelt two days after a crash near Sandringham, the Mail on Sunday reports. A Norfolk Police spokesman said "suitable words of advice have been given to the driver".

What a twat.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 3, 2019)

Keep is clean, especially in this mucky weather. 






Police apologise for dirty number plate


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 3, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Keep is clean, especially in this mucky weather.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I posted the tweet on the bandwidthz thread yesterday, very funny.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 5, 2019)

Crashed into a vehicle with hazard lights on, there was also a recovery truck with flashing lights on, killing two, convicted of careless driving, walks free from court.

Family calls for tougher sentences for drivers who kill


----------



## cybershot (Feb 5, 2019)

Had a class incident on Sunday with a Range Rover driver. Other than him being in a rush, I don't believe anything had happened beforehand, in fact I don't recall seeing him in my rear view mirror until the island. So he tries to overtake me in the outside (nearest lane to the physical island) whilst also taking the turn I was, he runs out of road, because, lanes. Continues to drive up my arse  to the next island, tries to do the same trick again but this time the physical island gets in his way as I'm also taking third exit. By which point I'm gestering to him to get in the right lane. Next set of lights, he pulls up beside me, starts calling me a c**t and to get out my car and he'll gave me. Amused, I blow him a kiss (I've learnt to keep my gob shut so my dash cam doesn't record my own coarse language, should I decide to submit footage to police and this gesture is excellent at winding them up further) and tell him to again learn how island lanes work. Once lights go green, he proceeds to go straight on, whilst again, being in the lane that was for turning right.

Utter twonk, It's a shame I don't have rear dash cam to get all his pricking about, the front dash coverage upon reviewing is nowhere near as exciting as I hoped it would be.


----------



## T & P (Feb 6, 2019)

Goes without saying that driving on drugs a cunt's trick. Having said that, the first few pararagraphs of this story have made me laugh no end.



> A driver who swerved "to avoid an octopus" before crashing has been arrested on suspicion of drug-driving.
> 
> Police were called to the A381 between Malborough and South Milton in Devon, where they found a vehicle upside-down in a ditch on Tuesday evening.
> 
> ...



Crash driver 'swerved to avoid octopus'


----------



## dervish (Feb 6, 2019)

Thing is, octopi are bloody clever, and can go on land. It's hiding and lying in wait for it's next victim.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 6, 2019)

Could be a mimic octopus disguised as a Fiat 500.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 9, 2019)

Previous conviction and a road ban for driving without due care and attention, chased after a cyclist and mowed him down, walks free from court.

BMW driver runs down cyclist in road rage horror


----------



## a_chap (Feb 9, 2019)

It beggars belief it really does.

"Judge Townsend told Nodder there were two things keeping him out of prison. One was his lack of a serious previous conviction."

And yet Nodder *had a previous conviction **and a road ban* for driving without due care and attention in 2014.

Conclusion: driving a car without due care and attention isn't serious. FFS.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 9, 2019)

One less dangerous driver on the roads...

BBC News - Prince Philip, 97, gives up driving licence


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 9, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Previous conviction and a road ban for driving without due care and attention, chased after a cyclist and mowed him down, walks free from court.
> 
> BMW driver runs down cyclist in road rage horror


You think he should have gone to prison?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> You think he should have gone to prison?


Yeah, I mean if I had a run in with someone then chased after him with a hammer and attacked him, I'd expect to go to prison. Why should it be different for using a car as a weapon?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 9, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Yeah, I mean if I had a run in with someone then chased after him with a hammer and attacked him, I'd expect to go to prison. Why should it be different for using a car as a weapon?


Well in this case it seems because he has a learning disability. I have thought you'd disapprove of nicking people with disabilities


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Well in this case it seems because he has a learning disability. I have thought you'd disapprove of nicking people with disabilities


He is ok to drive...

You think he shouldn't have been arrested


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 9, 2019)

Do you think people with disabilities are above the law, or is it just c**ts in bmws?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 9, 2019)

BMW drivers should be allowed to do whatever they like.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 23, 2019)

Admittedly she will have to live with this for the rest of her life but a measly £200 for taking a life. Is that justice?
Wife of Stannah Stairlifts MD walks free from court after killing motorcyclist


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Feb 23, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Admittedly she will have to live with this for the rest of her life but a measly £200 for taking a life. Is that justice?
> Wife of Stannah Stairlifts MD walks free from court after killing motorcyclist




That's appalling...


----------



## hash tag (Feb 23, 2019)

I can't find mention of a ban Or points even


----------



## hash tag (Mar 3, 2019)

If you have a Lamborghini, you might as well have it in a loud colour but, firstly, you should be able to drive it 
Purple lamborghini found crashed in a ditch owned by bitcoin investor Michael Hudson - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


----------



## hash tag (Mar 9, 2019)

How stoopid can you be Lotus boss banned from roads for drink-driving in Norwich


----------



## hash tag (Mar 19, 2019)

We have read and complained about people who kill others whilst driving and getting off lightly ie suspended sentence, just a year or so inside.
Giving this woman 3+ years for breaking someones back should help put things in perspective (yes, I know she has done other things, but so had many of the others).
Woman jailed over Tesco getaway crash


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 19, 2019)

hash tag said:


> (yes, I know she has done other things, but so had many of the others).
> Woman jailed over Tesco getaway crash



Theft x 2
Attempted theft
No insurance
Driving whilst disqualified
Failing to stop
Failing to report a collision
Causing serious injury by dangerous driving

Three years and two months.

Break someone's back alone via GBH and you'll get more than that.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 22, 2019)

Banned from driving, defective car, runs over a little girl and leaves her there: suspended sentence 

Hartlepool mum spared jail for hit-and-run which left 10-year-old schoolgirl with serious injuries


----------



## hash tag (Mar 25, 2019)

Whoops, there goes another one Lamborghini Huracan Performante Wrecked At Supercar Meet

It looks like they were drag racing on a public road?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 25, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Whoops, there goes another one Lamborghini Huracan Performante Wrecked At Supercar Meet
> 
> It looks like they were drag racing on a public road?


Nothing there to suggest drag racing but someone's certainly been a tit.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 25, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Banned from driving, defective car, runs over a little girl and leaves her there: suspended sentence
> 
> Hartlepool mum spared jail for hit-and-run which left 10-year-old schoolgirl with serious injuries



Disgraceful.


----------



## Ponyutd (Mar 25, 2019)

If only she'd thrown an egg at the kid.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 25, 2019)

The clip opened with two cars lined up side by side, lights were flickering on both cars. The wrecked one couldn't contain his excitement. There is every chance they were.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 25, 2019)

Driver who fled crash called it 'karma' for cyclist he injured



> A driver who showed "no remorse" after causing a crash that left a cyclist requiring surgery has received a suspended prison sentence.
> Ms Fidler had been cycling along Bridge Road in Chertsey on August 5, 2018, avoiding potholes on her nearside, when Keemer, driving his car behind her, became impatient, honking his horn at her several times.
> 
> Rather than pulling out and overtaking, he then pulled alongside Ms Fidler, verbally abusing and then steering towards her, braking sharply as his front wheel struck the kerb.
> ...





> Having pleaded guilty on March 25 to causing *serious injury by dangerous driving, failing to stop at the scene of a collision, failing to report a collision and driving a vehicle without an MOT*, Keemer was sentenced to 14 months in prison, suspended for two years


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 25, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Driver who fled crash called it 'karma' for cyclist he injured


Should have got 10 years.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 25, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Should have got 10 years.



Yep.

"suffering injuries that police described as "GBH level"

GBH can get you a life sentence.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 25, 2019)

It would be bad enough if it had been a careless accident, but a deliberate act, unbelievable.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 25, 2019)

What's happened to Team Top Gear?. Have I stumbled onto a parallel universe or something?


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 2, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yep.
> 
> "suffering injuries that police described as "GBH level"
> 
> GBH can get you a life sentence.


Or if you plead guilty to it while driving a car it can get you banned for a whole year.

Paralysed cyclist says year ban for Northern Ireland pastor who mowed him down is 'a joke' - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 2, 2019)

Fuck sakes


----------



## mojo pixy (May 3, 2019)

At the very least she should have been ordered to pay for his medical treatment. That should always be ordered in cases where a driver is found guilty, in addition to any jail sentence or community service or what not, particularly if the courts are going to stay feeble and pathetic regarding bans,


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 3, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> It would be bad enough if it had been a careless accident, but a deliberate act, unbelievable.



Attempted murder is not too strong IMO. Suspended sentence for fuck's sake.


----------



## Teaboy (May 3, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> At the very least she should have been ordered to pay for his medical treatment. That should always be ordered in cases where a driver is found guilty, in addition to any jail sentence or community service or what not, particularly if the courts are going to stay feeble and pathetic regarding bans,



That would be part of the insurance claim which would be separate from the criminal action.  Compensation in situations like this will likely run into the millions (not that any money can make amends for the damage), but it will be footed by the insurer so whether the pay out is £1000 or £100,000,000 it doesn't make much difference to the driver.

A one year ban is astonishingly low.  You'd likely get a longer ban for being slightly over the drink drive limit but not actually crashed or anything.  Its madness.


----------



## hash tag (May 3, 2019)

Extenuating circumstances cries the well paid defence lawyer.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 3, 2019)

If you've got circumstances which mean you can't drive safely, take a fucking cab don't gamble with other people's lives.


----------



## mojo pixy (May 3, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> That would be part of the insurance claim which would be separate from the criminal action.  Compensation in situations like this will likely run into the millions (not that any money can make amends for the damage), but it will be footed by the insurer so whether the pay out is £1000 or £100,000,000 it doesn't make much difference to the driver.



I was on about should though, not is. Insurers could help by only offering "black box" policies to drivers found guilty of driving offences .. better still make it a question of law, not affordability. ie. if found guilty of any motoring offence but.not banned (or after a ban) you can only buy car insurance if you have a black box, for say 5 years.


----------



## hash tag (May 3, 2019)

Black box for every driver until they clear 5 years claim and points free driving perhaps.

The roads are not a race track Police seize 120 sports cars during Eurorally 'race' through Germany


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 3, 2019)

I'm not convinced by the black box technology. Better to simply say if you kill or permanently injure someone while driving, you'll be banned from driving forever. No extenuating circumstances, no excuses, game over. Then we'll see if driving standards improve.


----------



## hash tag (May 3, 2019)

The technology is virtually out there for a car to read the speed limit of any road and limit the speed of the car. That would be a start.


----------



## hash tag (May 4, 2019)

this has been shown on television news a few times. Quite shocking and made me feel sick Cyclist hunts for hit-and-run driver


----------



## BigTom (May 4, 2019)

Fuck that looks quite blatantly deliberate. Will probably get a fine if they catch the driver.


----------



## hash tag (May 4, 2019)

It did well over the wrong side of the road...


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 4, 2019)

Fucking hell! 

He's lucky to be alive.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 4, 2019)

Outrageous. That road has a 20mph limit yet he was going so fast that he couldn’t stay on the correct side of the road. Five years + 10 year ban needed. As BigTom says, probably get a fine.


----------



## hash tag (May 4, 2019)

So far, the police appear to have done little...the poor guy sorted out the CCTV and the police meekly say they are trying to work out who was driving.
its a horrible image. Now I've seen it, I can't lose it.


----------



## magneze (May 4, 2019)

The police sent a letter to find out who was driving.


----------



## hash tag (May 9, 2019)

No comment 
BBC News - David Beckham banned from driving for using mobile phone
Beckham banned for using phone in Bentley


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 9, 2019)

Why was he using a handheld phone in a bloody Bentley, surely Bentley's come with bluetooth & hands-free phone operation?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Why was he using a handheld phone in a bloody Bentley, surely Bentley's come with bluetooth & hands-free phone operation?



Looking at facebook or whatever, the phone was on his knees and he was looking down whilst driving forward. 

Not that it would have made much difference if he was looking straight ahead, according to his own brief he was paying so much attention that...



> Beckham's defence barrister Gerrard Tyrrell said the former Manchester United midfielder had "no recollection of the day in question or this particular incident".
> 
> He added: "There is no excuse for what took place but his view is that he cannot remember."


----------



## Crispy (May 9, 2019)

Got snapped doing 36 in a 30. If it's the road I think it is, I was in the middle of kicking myself for missing a turning and having to go round the (large) block. Copped to it and going on a safety course. I cannot overstate how keen I am for self-driving cars to work out. Driving is misery.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 9, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Got snapped doing 36 in a 30. If it's the road I think it is, I was in the middle of kicking myself for missing a turning and having to go round the (large) block. Copped to it and going on a safety course. I cannot overstate how keen I am fro self-driving cars to work out. Driving is misery.



The course is good, everyone should have to do it every 5 years or so, focuses the mind.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 9, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The course is good, everyone should have to do it every 5 years or so, focuses the mind.



I am an aware driver, I never speed, I give cyclists a wide berth when over-taking, I am constantly flashing people to let them out, which seems to confuse them as I drive vans nowadays , I've never got more than a parking ticket, certainly no points on my licence.

How would going on such a course benefit me & focus my mind, more than it is already?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I am an aware driver, I never speed, I give cyclists a wide berth when over-taking, I am constantly flashing people to let them out, which seems to confuse them as I drive vans nowadays , I've never got more than a parking ticket, certainly no points on my licence.
> 
> How would going on such a course benefit me & focus my mind, more than it is already?



Teaches you stuff that you either didn’t know or have forgotten. Makes you think about your driving and how you can be an even better driver.

Flashing people to let them out is a test fail, btw.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 9, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Flashing people to let them out is a test fail, btw.



What? 

Got a link for that?


----------



## weltweit (May 9, 2019)

Bentleys probably do have Bluetooth  
Beckham is an idiot 
he is role model 
i.e. he deserved a ban


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> What?
> 
> Got a link for that?



Highway Code, 110


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 9, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Highway Code, 110



I asked for a link, but I've google that, and it doesn't support your claim that flashing people to let them out is a test fail.

Here's a link that suggests otherwise...



> Although it’s not illegal to signal to another driver to proceed by use of headlight flashing or hand gestures, it is *not* advised to do this during a driving test for the above reasons of being potentially or actually hazardous. Though signalling to a pedestrian or other road user in this manner during a driving test isn’t necessarily a test failure, it really depends on the actual situation and the discretion of the examiner (their personal view on this matter).



Flashing Headlights – Driving Test Tips


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I asked for a link, but I've google that, and it doesn't support your claim that flashing people to let them out is a test fail.
> 
> Here's a link that suggests otherwise...
> 
> ...



So that links says it can or can’t be a fail, the Highway Code says it is a dangerous thing to do, but you know better...


----------



## hash tag (May 10, 2019)

Flashing headlights is not recognised as standard practice. Perhaps people get confused because flashing lights could be a warning?
If you want to look at ways of improving your driving or correcting bad habits, you could try an advanced motorists course. Rather than sat in an oppressive room, someone is out with you while driving. Much more beneficial.

Beckham should have been banned for a year a least. Telephones automatically link up to cars systems these days. Still, at least he has made headlines, which will help get the message across.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 10, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Flashing headlights is not recognised as standard practice. Perhaps people get confused because flashing lights could be a warning?
> If you want to look at ways of improving your driving or correcting bad habits, you could try an advanced motorists course. Rather than sat in an oppressive room, someone is out with you while driving. Much more beneficial.
> 
> Beckham should have been banned for a year a least. Telephones automatically link up to cars systems these days. Still, at least he has made headlines, which will help get the message across.



Beckham wasn’t making a call, he was reading a website on his phone, which in many ways is worse.


----------



## existentialist (May 10, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Got snapped doing 36 in a 30. If it's the road I think it is, I was in the middle of kicking myself for missing a turning and having to go round the (large) block. Copped to it and going on a safety course. I cannot overstate how keen I am for self-driving cars to work out. Driving is misery.


I got nailed for 35 in a 30 - slightly over-exuberant acceleration off the line at some traffic lights, followed by a not-abrupt-enough deceleration when I spotted the camera. All bang to rights, but you're right - this very rigid enforcement of limits does make driving a more gratuitiously stressful experience.

I'm taking the safety course option, and will look forward to it - the last one I did was interesting and definitely did help me adapt my driving behaviour more to the new realities (I should point out that I've been driving for 35 years and had one accident, so I don't think I'm a particularly reckless or careless driver to start with  ).


----------



## hash tag (May 10, 2019)

There is no room for complacency and a refresher won't hurt.


----------



## hash tag (May 10, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Beckham wasn’t making a call, he was reading a website on his phone, which in many ways is worse.



I didn't think thats what I said


----------



## hash tag (May 10, 2019)

BTW. our new touch screen will not work above about 4 MPH, which is fair enough, but you can still control it by buttons.
We have a  new VW at work. The touch screen appears to work at high speed, which despite a host of other safety features is not good.
As I have said previously, these entertainment things can be a terrible distraction.


----------



## Crispy (May 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> rigid enforcement of limits does make driving a more gratuitiously stressful experience.


I'm absolutely fine with the enforcement. The limit is reasonable and I always do my best to stay under it. 36 feels like only a little bit more than 30, but it's actually 20% faster and increases your stopping distance from 74 to 100 ft.

Missing my turning, dealing with traffic, noisy kids in the back, and having to make a 10 minute detour when I'm already late are what make driving stressful.


----------



## dervish (May 10, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I am an aware driver, I never speed, I give cyclists a wide berth when over-taking, I am constantly flashing people to let them out, which seems to confuse them as I drive vans nowadays , I've never got more than a parking ticket, certainly no points on my licence.
> 
> How would going on such a course benefit me & focus my mind, more than it is already?



How long have you been driving? How long has it been since you read you highway code? 

The law changes all the time, normally not major changes year to year, but there will be new stuff to learn, not to mention all the things that you have forgotten since you passed your test.


----------



## hash tag (May 10, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I am an aware driver, I never speed,


most people that say this are usually economical with the truth. The number of indignant people who used to write to honest John saying I've just been done for 33 in a 30 limit...how can that be right...ive been driving for 50 years and never do much as had a parking ticket  You mean you've never been caught before.

Mrs Tag is very cautious and careful "who never speeds". Nope, she speeds, unintentionally most times she drives. At least twice today I noticed she was speeding, not wildly over, but she broke the law none the less. 
if you are over the limit, you ARE over the limit.


----------



## weltweit (May 10, 2019)

Indeed. I would like to think of myself as a careful driver, but I catch myself doing 45 in a 40, or 80 in a 70. And there is always the risk of distraction which is a constant issue while driving. 

I class myself as an experienced driver, I had a 10 year spell as a rep doing 50k miles a year which equates to 1,000 miles a week so I have certainly driven a long way. But equally I will have picked up bad habits along the way, it is almost inevitable.


----------



## hash tag (May 10, 2019)

Real driving or as I suspect, motorway driving?


----------



## T & P (May 10, 2019)

Speeding and being careful and/or safe drivers are by no means exclusive, of course. And one could also add that intentional speeding might be preferable to unintentional speeding, since at least it shows the driver who is intentionally speeding is fully aware of both the local traffic regulations and the speed they're travelling at. More than can be said of an unintentional speeder


----------



## hash tag (May 10, 2019)

BTW. Re Mrs tag....she is not easily distracted whilst at the wheel.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 10, 2019)

some spunker cut me up on the motorway last week , blasting up the hard shoulder thne veering into the outside line where i was doing about 80, causing me to take action. i came alongside him at a slip road some way further on, wound down the window and called him a manky kojak cunt. the children are still asking what a kojak is.


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 11, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The course is good, everyone should have to do it every 5 years or so, focuses the mind.


Assuming you drive an Audi, and aren't already focused on the important part of driving... driving!


----------



## mauvais (May 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I am an aware driver, I never speed, I give cyclists a wide berth when over-taking, I am constantly flashing people to let them out, which seems to confuse them as I drive vans nowadays , I've never got more than a parking ticket, certainly no points on my licence.
> 
> How would going on such a course benefit me & focus my mind, more than it is already?


Years ago, I posted this:



mauvais said:


> Pop quiz:
> 
> What is the speed limit for a car here?
> 
> ...


Without looking at the source thread, what are the answers and why?


----------



## BigTom (May 11, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Years ago, I posted this:
> 
> Without looking at the source thread, what are the answers and why?



Without checking the 7.5t limit in the HC, I think



Spoiler



1 - 60mph for a car. Can't see any speed limit signs, so national speed limit, single carriageway, no streetlights = 60mph. 
2 - 70mph for a car. As above but it's dual carriageway (just with a very large central reservation), not single carriageway, so despite being a single lane, it's 70mph. oddly I think the other carriageway might be a different speed limit as I found some national speed limit signs for that way when I was looking for ones on our side, but no corresponding limit change for our carriageway.
3 - Not sure if this is 40mph or 45mph but 7.5t vehicles have lower speed limits on all national speed limit roads, I remember they were consulting on raising the speed limit on this type of road a few years back but don't know if anything came of that.



For extra points, what's the speed limit for 3.5t vehicles in these examples, since cupid_stunt drives a van mostly nowadays, that's more relevant.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 11, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Years ago, I posted this:
> 
> Without looking at the source thread, what are the answers and why?



If we are talking about cars for the first two, and there's no speed limit signs:.
60 - single carriageway
70 - dual carriageway
50 - Goods vehicles are 10 mph lower than cars on single & dual carriageways.  



BigTom said:


> For extra points, what's the speed limit for 3.5t vehicles in these examples, since cupid_stunt drives a van mostly nowadays, that's more relevant.



50
60
50


----------



## BigTom (May 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> If we are talking about cars for the first two, and there's no speed limit signs:.
> 60 - single carriageway
> 70 - dual carriageway
> 50 - Goods vehicles are 10 mph lower than cars on single & dual carriageways.
> ...



We disagree about the 7.5t limit but afaik the van speeds are right - ime most people think 3.5t limits are the same as cars so that's a  from me. I haven't gone to check what that limit is to see what the 7.5t limit is though.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 11, 2019)

The main thing I took from the course:

Two things; I didn't know what a dual carriageway was, didn't know it could be a single lane.


And this; we were shown this picture, but at night with no traffic or pedestrians about, it was well lit:



We were asked what we thought was a safe speed at 1am, (the time the photo was taken), not the legal speed, which we all knew to be 30mph, but what we would consider to be safe, driving in the direction of the BMW.

40-45 was my answer, most people answered the same, some less, some more, but my answer was the majority answer.

As it happens this road was close to the place where the course was taking place, most of us recognised it and had driven down it many times, 30mph when it is empty is a snail's pace on such a wide road.

We were then shown a smashed up boy-racer's Nova.

At the corner at the top of the picture is this pedestrian crossing with lights, a Pelican Crossing(?):



To the left of which is an alleyway going up steep steps to Guildford Castle.

A man in his 20's came flying out of there without stopping and the Nova smashed in to him, killing him instantly. We saw pictures of the aftermath, his shoes in the road, those little yellow triangles the police lay out on the road and so on. We saw a picture of the Nova all smashed up with the dead man's dent in in, it had Kev and Shaz or whatever across the windscreen, we were asked to think about the driver, who we all agreed was an inexperienced idiot.

Only it wasn't, it was the idiot's mum, who had borrowed his car for the night to go to the cinema and then a pizza. She was sober. She was 49 years old and ran a small business which provided a decent standard of living for her. She was doing 43 mph. She was sent to prison for 7 years.

The dead man was in the wrong, he ran out without stopping or looking. Had she been doing 30mph he quite likely would still have been killed, or at least suffered life changing injuries, but she would not have even been nicked. But she was speeding and as a result was found to be fully culpable for his death.

That changed the way I drive. Selfish, perhaps, but effective.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 11, 2019)

BigTom said:


> We disagree about the 7.5t limit but afaik the van speeds are right - ime most people think 3.5t limits are the same as cars so that's a  from me. I haven't gone to check what that limit is to see what the 7.5t limit is though.



The 7.5t limit was increased recently. 

After I posted my reply I took a look at the previous thread, and saw the answer as 40 rather than 50, and thought that's wrong, until I spotted that thread was from 2013, and so was correct at the time.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 11, 2019)

Didn’t know it had changed for HGVs, I know it used to frustrate drivers being stuck behind big wagons that obeyed the rule (the big delivery ones for supermarkets are quite strict about it, independent companies less so). I Remember reading about the mainly single carriageway road down to Stranraer from Glasgow and how that had a shocking casualty rate due to the unfortunate combination of many slow wagons heading for the port and impatient drivers worried they’d be late for the ferry they were booked on.


----------



## hash tag (May 11, 2019)

From the first of Bahnhof Strasse two pictures we can see a green light poking out to the left of the picture. Also, if we look closely we can see the railings coming to an end,
before the ped crossing. When I did road safety campaigning many years ago, I advocated for doing away with things like railings as they give the motorist that pedestrians are
safley kept out of the way and it is safe to be reckless. They give the impression that it is like being on a motorway or race track. Remove the things which separate the two and
you put doubt in the motorists mind which in most instances help to temper their driving. From memory, I don't think there are nearly so many barriers like this in Amsterdam, 
Copenhagen or Vienna. Copenhagen to some extent and always in Vienna everyone always abides by the red and green lights without fail, regardless of whats around.
That I doubt the green light or gap in railings would have been visible to the BMW driver.
On an advanced motorists course you are shown (not taught necessarily) this and much more. Doing a commentary, people are encouraged to state not that a pedestrian crossing
can be seen in the distance but what type of crossing it is.


----------



## Poi E (May 11, 2019)

The galvanised barriers are a ghastly blight on Britain. Oddly reflective of the way the class society funnels people.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 11, 2019)

Poi E said:


> The galvanised barriers are a ghastly blight on Britain. Oddly reflective of the way the class society funnels people.



The high street where I lived until recently had them to pen in pedestrians and stop you crossing where you wanted to, despite not being a particularly busy road. They got a load of heritage lottery money to redo the paving and street furniture a few years back but as a condition of the grant they weren’t allowed to do anything other than replace like with like, so we have nice black painted heritage railings now. Councillors would have liked to get rid of them and make some of the side roads easier to cross (they have wide radii which allows drivers to take them at speed) but hands were tied and grateful to get any money. Kind of not-joined-up bollocks that boils my piss a bit.


----------



## hash tag (May 11, 2019)

Too many signs as well as general furniture all over the place. Do we need signs saying police ANPR is operating in this area?


----------



## Winot (May 11, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Too many signs as well as general furniture all over the place. Do we need signs saying police ANPR is operating in this area?



Bit like the CCTV signs. Human rights innit.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 20, 2019)

Triple death crash drink-driver jailed

Drinking beer and gin, smoking cannabis, described as grossly intoxicated, kills three people, a brother and sister and her fiancé. 

Eight years and four months, will spend just over a year inside for each life he took.

ffs


----------



## hash tag (May 22, 2019)

9 miles down the wrong side of a dual carriageway 'I'm lost': Drunk beautician drove nine miles WRONG way down A19


----------



## hash tag (May 22, 2019)

Shocking. I can't believe they have got this bastard from the car registration Moment man, 80, is shoved into brick wall in 'road rage' attack


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 22, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Shocking. I can't believe they have *NOT* got this bastard from the car registration Moment man, 80, is shoved into brick wall in 'road rage' attack


----------



## hash tag (May 22, 2019)

Sorry, just too full of rage.


----------



## hash tag (May 24, 2019)

I take no joy in posting this nugget of local tittle tattle Louise Redknapp to appear in court after jumping red light in Wandsworth


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 28, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I take no joy in posting this nugget of local tittle tattle Louise Redknapp to appear in court after jumping red light in Wandsworth



Who is she?


----------



## BigTom (May 29, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Who is she?



I think she was from Girls Aloud, but might have been a different pop band, married Jamie Redknapp, erstwhile Liverpool FC and England midfielder iirc. No idea why i know this as i don't like football or pop music so i could be wrong but I'm also confident in my knowledge.


----------



## Spymaster (May 29, 2019)

BigTom said:


> I think she was from Girls Aloud, but might have been a different pop band ...


Eternal .


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 12, 2019)

This is the second day in a row someone's blasted past me on a zebra crossing and waved thanks as they did do.

Did I miss a memo


----------



## hash tag (Jun 12, 2019)

Car overtaking a car or your a pedestrian crossing?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 12, 2019)

Artaxerxes said:


> This is the second day in a row someone's blasted past me on a zebra crossing and waved thanks as they did do.
> 
> Did I miss a memo



If it were an Audi there would be no wave of thanks.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 12, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Car overtaking a car or your a pedestrian crossing?



Pedestrian crossing, actually had my foot on the line today but was keeping an eye on the cab that had seemingly no intention of slowing down.

Yesterday there were 4 cars and the end one waved at me, bless her.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 12, 2019)

Well, there might be a wave, of sorts of maybe not a proper Audi driver.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 13, 2019)

Don't believe everything you hear in adverts https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-48614354


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 13, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Don't believe everything you hear in adverts https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-48614354






Wouldn't have happened if he'd driven a Land Rover. That would have broken down long before it got near the coast.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 13, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Wouldn't have happened if he'd driven a Land Rover. That would have broken down long before it got near the coast.


Yeah, like Solihull.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 13, 2019)

Earlier this week I watched a six wheeled dumper truck get stuck on the sand here after attempting a three point turn. Tide was up to the axles before it got out with the aid of a large tracked excavator which stuck it’s bucket in the tipper part to drag it up the beach. The old Wurzels song ‘_Thee’s got’n where thee cassn’t back’n hassn’t’ _was running through my brain


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 19, 2019)

20mph zone fatal crash driver jailed

Almost double the speed limit, knocks down a pedestrian and kills her, doesn't stop, or even hand himself in later.

18 months for careless driving.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 19, 2019)

I'm sorry someone has died, especially in these circumstances. There's a big lesson for many people here. Ignore your children, they could be worse than using a mobile. 
BBC News - Spider dropped on driver before crash which killed boy, 11
Spider fell on driver before fatal crash


----------



## hash tag (Jun 26, 2019)

Because driving is so boring (I'm so stoopid) Yorkshire woman banned from driving after posting this video


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 26, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I'm sorry someone has died, especially in these circumstances. There's a big lesson for many people here. Ignore your children, they could be worse than using a mobile.
> BBC News - Spider dropped on driver before crash which killed boy, 11
> Spider fell on driver before fatal crash



Hmm, bit of an odd one this.

Anyway, I had a bee land on my leg the other day whilst driving, it must have been in the car when I got in.  Its really hard to keep concentrating on the road and not make any sudden movements. Fortunately it was a built-up area and I was only doing 20 and there was a side street to quickly pull over onto.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 4, 2019)

hash tag said:


> this has been shown on television news a few times. Quite shocking and made me feel sick Cyclist hunts for hit-and-run driver



This was a truly horrible incident, but hey Driver in hit-and-run cyclist crash jailed


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2019)

hash tag said:


> This was a truly horrible incident, but hey Driver in hit-and-run cyclist crash jailed



Fucking hell , and only 20 months.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 10, 2019)

It took me a while to work out what a baby reveal was, but thats secondary...Gender reveal goes horribly wrong


----------



## a_chap (Jul 10, 2019)

Darwinism...


----------



## flypanam (Jul 25, 2019)

setting off for Holyhead in a couple of hours, not looking forward to the M25 or M1 in this heat.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 29, 2019)

Guess what folks, the fatter the tyres, the more likely they are to aquaplane Lamborghini driver smashes into motorway barrier before fleeing


----------



## mauvais (Jul 29, 2019)

They will have legged it because they're not the insured party - hired by a cousin or something. The hire companies themselves are usually an 'interesting' arrangement too.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 29, 2019)

mauvais said:


> They will have legged it because they're not the insured party - hired by a cousin or something. The hire companies themselves are usually an 'interesting' arrangement too.


Yep. Manc drug dealer has lent his hired-for-the-weekend Lambo to a mate.


----------



## mauvais (Jul 29, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Yep. Manc drug dealer has lent his hired-for-the-weekend Lambo to a mate.


I would have guessed West Yorkshire, and a nonsense car hire business that's really there to launder drug money.

Someone had their Lambo impounded by GMP recently for no insurance. Turned up to get it back in another one, also no insurance, got that impounded too. Twats.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 29, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Someone had their Lambo impounded by GMP recently for no insurance. Turned up to get it back in another one, also no insurance, got that impounded too. Twats.


I know 

Yes, fast car hire places have long been the realm of money launderers. In London when you see a youngster in a Lambo or a Ferrari the first thing you think is _drug dealer_ unless it's got Middle Eastern number plates and is parked illegally, in which case you know the owner is an even bigger scumbag.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 29, 2019)

Manchester; could well have been a footballer.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 1, 2019)

Get ready for more careless driving from people using phones as a builder challenges law and unbelievably. Wins. 

Motorists could challenge convictions for driving while using their phones after man has case overturned


----------



## hash tag (Aug 1, 2019)

There was me thinking you could not use a hand held device while driving. 
In any event, the law is not enforced that well and could do with tightening up anyway.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 1, 2019)

hash tag said:


> There was me thinking you could not use a hand held device while driving.
> In any event, the law is not enforced that well and could do with tightening up anyway.



Agreed but its a difficult law to enforce.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2019)

hash tag said:


> There was me thinking you could not use a hand held device while driving.
> In any event, the law is not enforced that well and could do with tightening up anyway.



Not much point enforcing it when so many drivers with 12 points or more are still allowed to drive around.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Guess what folks, the fatter the tyres, the more likely they are to aquaplane Lamborghini driver smashes into motorway barrier before fleeing
> 
> 
> View attachment 179064



No safe way to drive a thing like that on public roads. No reason anyone would ever need to. Roads are for transport, they're not playgrounds.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 1, 2019)

I've just seen a clip of the crash in Chichester last night -


----------



## marty21 (Aug 1, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I've just seen a clip of the crash in Chichester last night -


share with the class!

I spent a week in Chichester in January - I didn't crash


----------



## hash tag (Aug 1, 2019)

You did ask Horror moment car flips into garden in '80mph race' that left one dead


----------



## marty21 (Aug 1, 2019)

hash tag said:


> You did ask Horror moment car flips into garden in '80mph race' that left one dead


fucking hell!


----------



## hash tag (Aug 1, 2019)

Yes, indeed.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 1, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Get ready for more careless driving from people using phones as a builder challenges law and unbelievably. Wins.
> 
> Motorists could challenge convictions for driving while using their phones after man has case overturned



That's just bollocks though, just cos there's no specific law banning using a phone for things other than calls or texts (texts would cover all internet use), driving without due care & attention would be a shoe-in.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 1, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> No safe way to drive a thing like that on public roads.


Can you explain why?
Most people wouldn't have a problem, IMO.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 1, 2019)

hash tag said:


> You did ask Horror moment car flips into garden in '80mph race' that left one dead


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Can you explain why?


Of course not. He's talking bollocks again.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 1, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Of course not. He's talking bollocks again.


That's not like him.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 1, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Of course not. He's talking bollocks again.



Lambos are known for being more than a little twitchy, but I gather the newer ones are pretty tame if you go gently.
I drove an Ariel Atom once and I wouldn't fancy trying to pootle round Sainsbury's car park in that bastard.


----------



## T & P (Aug 1, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That's just bollocks though, just cos there's no specific law banning using a phone for things other than calls or texts (texts would cover all internet use), driving without due care & attention would be a shoe-in.


I’m sure I remember reading within the last year or so about a police department warning drivers that even touching a mobile phone mounted on the dashboard that is being used as a sat-nav is against current motoring laws, because it is still a telecommunications device. Whereas touching a Tom-Tom device would be okay- which is of course the pinnacle of stupidity.


----------



## Looby (Aug 4, 2019)

Got my new car and a week later someone reversed into me twice. 

I was near a narrow bit of road with cars all along my side where you have to give way to wide oncoming traffic and the women in front of me decided she wasn’t going to (in an Audi obvs). The bus she had blocked from moving made her reverse back about 20 car lengths which she did really badly then got really close to me. I beeped her because she wasn’t stopping and she hit me, moved forward slightly then hit me again. I couldn’t reverse back to stop her as there was a queue of cars behind us. 

The bus got through and she drove off. I thought she was going to pull over where she could but she kept driving. Selfish stupid fucking twat. There was no damage to my car but she didn’t know that. 

I fucking hate people. I’ve had loads of damage to my cars in the past few years and only once was it my fault (reversed into a pillar).


----------



## DownwardDog (Aug 4, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> No safe way to drive a thing like that on public roads. No reason anyone would ever need to. Roads are for transport, they're not playgrounds.



This is balls. That's a Huracan Performante Spyder LP640-4. If you leave it in 'Strada' mode and don't hoon it then it is probably one of the safest cars on the road as it has excellent brakes/tyres, electronic stability control (with 3 gyros and 3 interia sensors), ABS, drive by wire throttle control and computer controlled limited slip diff. If driven 'normally' it's safer than 99% of the other cars around it.


----------



## DownwardDog (Aug 4, 2019)

8ball said:


> Lambos are known for being more than a little twitchy, but I gather the newer ones are pretty tame if you go gently.
> I drove an Ariel Atom once and I wouldn't fancy trying to pootle round Sainsbury's car park in that bastard.



The Countach had all the grip in the world until it didn't. You got 0.1s of understeer followed by a spin. The Murcielago was much better balanced but you had to be going so incredibly fast to find its limits that when things did unravel they did so very, very quickly.  I've never driven an Aventador but I've driven a couple of Huracans and they are docile, even at the limit, unless you've got it in 'Corsa' mode in which case its like a Murcielago with a better infotainment system.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 4, 2019)

DownwardDog said:


> This is balls. That's a Huracan Performante Spyder LP640-4. If you leave it in 'Strada' mode and don't hoon it then it is probably one of the safest cars on the road as it has excellent brakes/tyres, electronic stability control (with 3 gyros and 3 interia sensors), ABS, drive by wire throttle control and computer controlled limited slip diff. If driven 'normally' it's safer than 99% of the other cars around it.



Now factor in the sort of utter bellend who would actually drive one.

The noise lamborghinis make is an atrocity. If you think yourself entitled to inflict that shit on the general public for your own entertainment, then you're a bad person.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 4, 2019)

T & P said:


> I’m sure I remember reading within the last year or so about a police department warning drivers that even touching a mobile phone mounted on the dashboard that is being used as a sat-nav is against current motoring laws, because it is still a telecommunications device. Whereas touching a Tom-Tom device would be okay- which is of course the pinnacle of stupidity.



Indeed. Using a satnav is just as distracting as using a phone and should also be banned.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 4, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Indeed. Using a satnav is just as distracting as using a phone and should also be banned.



Nonsense. Before sat nav I would often have a map on my lap. And when integrated in to the car there is a map and a separate indication on next to the speedo, really helps you prepare better at tricky junctions and shit like that. Fiddling with it when moving is another matter tho...


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 4, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Nonsense. Before sat nav I would often have a map on my lap. And when integrated in to the car there is a map and a separate indication on next to the speedo, really helps you prepare better at tricky junctions and shit like that. Fiddling with it when moving is another matter tho...


Absolutely. The lane indicators at junctions are a godsend, especially when you’re a bit pissed.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 4, 2019)

Looby said:


> Got my new car and a week later someone reversed into me twice.
> 
> I was near a narrow bit of road with cars all along my side where you have to give way to wide oncoming traffic and the women in front of me decided she wasn’t going to (in an Audi obvs). The bus she had blocked from moving made her reverse back about 20 car lengths which she did really badly then got really close to me. I beeped her because she wasn’t stopping and she hit me, moved forward slightly then hit me again. I couldn’t reverse back to stop her as there was a queue of cars behind us.
> 
> ...



Audi drivers; got it in one.


----------



## polly (Aug 4, 2019)

Oh Looby  what a cunt. I'm so sorry. You've had so much shit luck with driving recently. What car did you get though?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 4, 2019)

Never driven a car with a posh integrated sat nav that tells you what lane to go in but that would be great tbf. I use a tomtom sometimes which beeps at you if you inadvertantly creep over limit which is dead handy


----------



## Looby (Aug 4, 2019)

polly said:


> Oh Looby  what a cunt. I'm so sorry. You've had so much shit luck with driving recently. What car did you get though?



Thanks, it feels like it but it’s all been fairly minor damage. My mate has just had his car stolen and dumped. [emoji20]

I got a Vauxhall Mokka. Had one as a courtesy car and really liked it and the height is good for my dodgy knee.


----------



## Looby (Aug 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Never driven a car with a posh integrated sat nav that tells you what lane to go in but that would be great tbf. I use a tomtom sometimes which beeps at you if you inadvertantly creep over limit which is dead handy



I sort of miss my Tom Tom for that and mooing near farms. 

I’ve been using Waze for a while which is good especially for the traffic info but just got a car with integrated sat nav. It’s nice but like Waze is quite slow sometimes so you can be nearly past a road and it’ll tell you to turn off.


----------



## polly (Aug 4, 2019)

Looby said:


> Thanks, it feels like it but it’s all been fairly minor damage. My mate has just had his car stolen and dumped. [emoji20]
> 
> I got a Vauxhall Mokka. Had one as a courtesy car and really liked it and the height is good for my dodgy knee.



Yeah well it could always be worse I guess but I hate that sort of selfish chipping away at the bank of human kindness. It's depressing. But yeah I'm glad your car is OK  Looks really fancy


----------



## Looby (Aug 4, 2019)

polly said:


> Yeah well it could always be worse I guess but I hate that sort of selfish chipping away at the bank of human kindness. It's depressing. But yeah I'm glad your car is OK  Looks really fancy



I agree, people can be awful and doubly so when they get in a car. I’d never hit someone and drive off. Oh well, it’s all good and yeah the car is lovely. [emoji4]


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 4, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Nonsense. Before sat nav I would often have a map on my lap. And when integrated in to the car there is a map and a separate indication on next to the speedo, really helps you prepare better at tricky junctions and shit like that. Fiddling with it when moving is another matter tho...



I accept that people use satnavs. I don't approve of them but I accept it. But I really don't see how operating them while driving is any better that texting or whatever else.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 4, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I accept that people use satnavs. I don't approve of them but I accept it. But I really don't see how operating them while driving is any better that texting or whatever else.


Nothing is more dangerous than not knowing where you're going though, shifting lanes, taking turnings late etc


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Nothing is more dangerous than not knowing where you're going though, shifting lanes, taking turnings late etc



All the more reason to work out where you're going before you get in the car.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 4, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> All the more reason to work out where you're going before you get in the car.


Well even if you know where you're going, unless you are familiar with every turn then you're going to end up in wrong lane, miss turnings etc. You can't sit there before getting in car and plan a journey of more than a couple of miles knowing every detail, it's not possible. Clearly people bombing around in tons of fast metal alongside pedestrians and cyclists is daft and in future people will wonder what the fuck everybody was doing but in meantime I reckon satnav is probably a net benefit


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Well even if you know where you're going, unless you are familiar with every turn then you're going to end up in wrong lane, miss turnings etc. You can't sit there before getting in car and plan a journey of more than a couple of miles knowing every detail, it's not possible. Clearly people bombing around in tons of fast metal alongside pedestrians and cyclists is daft and in future people will wonder what the fuck everybody was doing but in meantime I reckon satnav is probably a net benefit



The time before satnav was famously one of nobody ever getting anywhere.


----------



## DownwardDog (Aug 4, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I accept that people use satnavs. I don't approve of them but I accept it. But I really don't see how operating them while driving is any better that texting or whatever else.



Why don't you approve? Are we all supposed to be navigating our cars using sextants and paper charts?

Modern satnav systems are operated by voice rather that fingers anyway.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 4, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> The time before satnav was famously one of nobody ever getting anywhere.


Same with seatbelts and lights


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Same with seatbelts and lights



Not really no. Satnav is not a life saving device.


----------



## T & P (Aug 4, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I accept that people use satnavs. I don't approve of them but I accept it. But I really don't see how operating them while driving is any better that texting or whatever else.


It depends on the instance in question. Trying to program in a route and type words on a motorway is reckless and dangerous. Doing a single tap on a device screen that takes all of one second at low speed on an empty road is about as dangerous as blinking while driving.

And certainly no more dangerous than operating the controls of a car radio, which for 99% of the motorcar life span were not available on the wheel, so one had to both look away from the road and take one hand off the wheel to do. Indeed, hundreds of millions of older cars around the world still don’t have steering wheel controls. Do you think car radios are inherently dangerous as well?


----------



## Gaia (Aug 6, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Never driven a car with a posh integrated sat nav that tells you what lane to go in but that would be great tbf. I use a tomtom sometimes which beeps at you if you inadvertantly creep over limit which is dead handy



My father could do with one of those, seems his years of being a typical BMW wanker have finally caught up with him, and TVP* has ordered him to take National Motorway Awareness and National Speed Awareness courses (or lose his licence, presumably), found the course booklets on the hall table. If you ever see a twat in a navy '08' reg BMW, driving like a wanker on the M40, M25, M4 or M1, it's probably him. I'm surprised he's never had a smash (and if he did, it wouldn't be his fault, nothing is ever his fucking fault). 

I honestly don't know what fucking good these courses do - knowing my father, he'll simply treat it as a box-ticking exercise and his behaviour won't change in the slightest, because he can afford to keep paying for the courses (not that I've any idea how much they cost (any idea?), but he's very far from being skint). Like all BMW wankers, he has a real problem with middle-lane drivers, and believes speed limits don't apply to him. 

They went down to Sherborne at the weekend (Thursday to Saturday), I wonder if he got pulled over on the M4…? I won't ever get in a car with him again. I fully expect him to have a heart attack behind the wheel sooner rather than later. 

*Or WMP if he got done in Dorset.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 6, 2019)

Gaia said:


> I honestly don't know what fucking good these courses do - knowing my father, he'll simply treat it as a box-ticking exercise and his behaviour won't change in the slightest, because he can afford to keep paying for the courses (not that I've any idea how much they cost (any idea?) ...


About £100 a go  but you only get offered a course under certain circumstances. Your speed has to be within certain parameters and you can't have done a similar course in the previous 3 years. IOtherwise he'll just get the points and a fine/ban. 



> Like all BMW wankers, he has a real problem with middle-lane drivers, and believes speed limits don't apply to him.



He's right. Speed limits are for dog-fuckers and people who drive French cars.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 6, 2019)

I drive a french car


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 6, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I drive a french car



I drive French vans, whereas Spymaster is a BMW wanker.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 6, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I drive a french car


You have to stick to the speed limits then.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 6, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I drive French vans ...


Yep. Plenty of room for the dogs.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 6, 2019)

Gaia said:


> Like all BMW wankers, he has a real problem with middle-lane drivers


Everybody should have a problem with wankers who think the middle lane is for anything but overtaking.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 6, 2019)

I thought BMW drivers thought the middle lane was for undertaking


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 6, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Everybody should have a problem with wankers who think the middle lane is for anything but overtaking.



The middle lane should be left empty to allow clear air for the Audis thundering along in the fast lane.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 13, 2019)

It's difficult enough to enforce the current laws on mobile phones in cars, how on earth this would be policed?
Hands-free phone driving ban 'should be looked at'


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 13, 2019)

hash tag said:


> It's difficult enough to enforce the current laws on mobile phones in cars, how on earth this would be policed?
> Hands-free phone driving ban 'should be looked at'



It is very distracting. Many cars now have this built in, so it would be hard to tell if someone is talking on the phone or just talking to a passenger, singing to themselves, simply deranged.


----------



## dervish (Aug 13, 2019)

I'll be fucked if they ban singing in the car.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 14, 2019)

dervish said:


> I'll be fucked if they ban singing in the car.



Take up yodelling


----------



## hash tag (Aug 14, 2019)

If you need to play music in the car, I think people would advise something like Satie


as opposed to something a little heavier


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 14, 2019)

Any loud music in cars...


----------



## hash tag (Aug 14, 2019)




----------



## hash tag (Aug 16, 2019)

Spymaster the question is where to put a story like this these days? Cyclist blames driver after crash while performing wheelie


----------



## hash tag (Aug 16, 2019)

vid linky Man Doing Wheelie Down Busy Road Crashes Into Mercedes, Then Blames The Driver


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 16, 2019)

Fucking twat cyclist.


----------



## marty21 (Aug 16, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It is very distracting. Many cars now have this built in, so it would be hard to tell if someone is talking on the phone or just talking to a passenger, singing to themselves, simply deranged.


Their phone would reveal the times they were actually on the phone rather than singing or being deranged


----------



## T & P (Aug 16, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Spymaster the question is where to put a story like this these days? Cyclist blames driver after crash while performing wheelie


Well the 'what have people got against cyclists' thread got closed as it'd become rather vicious and flamebaity, but we could try again with a new thread titled 'cycling standards' mimicking the existing one about drivers.


----------



## T & P (Aug 16, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It is very distracting. Many cars now have this built in, so it would be hard to tell if someone is talking on the phone or just talking to a passenger, singing to themselves, simply deranged.


I kind of fall into the last category, though I would hasten to add that rather than being deranged or think I  have imaginary friends travelling with me, I sometimes 'think aloud' and speak out a hypothetical conversation that I am playing out in my mind. Not at any length of time but just a sentence or two and no more than a few seconds, but all the same it might look like I'm either nuts or on the phone to an outsider who spots me doing it.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 17, 2019)

'Big oaf' road rage driver revealed after clip shows him brand rival ' scum'

'Big oaf' road rage driver revealed after clip shows him brand rival ' scum'


----------



## hash tag (Aug 17, 2019)

He didn't like his clip shown on line because it has made him look a knob...he should have thought about that before hand.
BTW I find progress is quicker if I give way and signal I'm doing so quite early on


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 21, 2019)

Laughing at the ‘runs his own business’. It’s basically the gammon war cry, never heard anyone proclaim those words publicly that wasn’t a prize bellend. Notably popular with some of the lesser Tory MPs, as though spunking your dad’s money on a failed business venture elevates you to a higher level of person than someone who just goes out and does a useful job every day.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 21, 2019)

Never understand those in a smaller vehicle that argue with a larger one. Physics, man...


----------



## hash tag (Aug 21, 2019)

Chips on shoulder; inferiority complex.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 22, 2019)

Please tell me that neither you or Fraue Strasse were not involved Bahnhof Strasse Man, 25, fights for life after 'high-speed' sports car crash wrecks six vehicles


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 22, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Please tell me that neither you or Fraue Strasse were not involved Bahnhof Strasse Man, 25, fights for life after 'high-speed' sports car crash wrecks six vehicles



Looks like a very nasty pile up. Sounds like two cars were racing, down a sodding high street ffs. 

Also 25 years old in such a powerful car; how does a 25 year old afford it, most 25 year olds will not have the experience to handle a >300bhp motor.

Hope he pulls through.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 22, 2019)

People tend not to buy cars anymore more, they tend to lease them these days which makes things somewhat easier.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 22, 2019)

hash tag said:


> People tend not to buy cars anymore more, they tend to lease them these days which makes things somewhat easier.



I know next to nothing about leasing, have always bought cars outright as have been scared to get a loan on something that can break down, crash etc. Is it any good?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 22, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I know next to nothing about leasing, have always bought cars outright as have been scared to get a loan on something that can break down, crash etc. Is it any good?


Leasing can mean straight lease (contract hire) - you pay the depreciation plus interest, give it back at end. Expensive cos you're paying the depreciation at the steepest point plus interest but hassle free so if you've got money and fancy a new car every two or three years then can see attraction.

Or it can mean PCP, which is a bag of shit imo but how loads of youngsters get nice cars. PCP is really a mix of lease and HP. You pay what is basically a lease at beginning which is artificially low so affordable. At end of lease period you have a balloon payment, theory being the car will be worth more so you can either hand it back and take any equity you have in car, or pay balloon and keep car. Except often the balloon is more than the value of the car, either because it's been knocked about or has more miles than agreed milage, or just because it's not held its value. So then you have to pay a chunk just to be able to hand it back over, or pay the whole balloon to own the car even though the car isn't worth that much. Or you can try and sell it yourself for more than the finance house says it's worth and pay the balloon that way, but then you've just leased a car for three or four years with extra hassle at end. Anyway it's this combined with not very strict credit underwriting that has led to loads of youngsters with nice shiny new cars


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 22, 2019)

Anyway there are less shit cars on road these days cos jumped up kids are driving Golfs and Merc A Class on 18 and 19 plates, cutting me up in my shit heap cos they're spending 40% of their net income each month on a fucking car the little pricks


----------



## blairsh (Aug 22, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Anyway there are less shit cars on road these days cos jumped up kids are driving Golfs and Merc A Class on 18 and 19 plates, cutting me up in my shit heap cos they're spending 40% of their net income each month on a fucking car the little pricks


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 22, 2019)

So basically, for once in my life, my buying cars that I can afford outright has been a shrewd financial move?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 22, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> So basically, for once in my life, my buying cars that I can afford outright has been a shrewd financial move?


Yeah. Well as shrewd as taking a brand new car off the forecourt can ever get anyway


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 22, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yeah. Well as shrewd as taking a brand new car off the forecourt can ever get anyway



I've never bought a brand new car. I am neither a lottery winner nor totally fucking mental.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 22, 2019)

I can't think of a single sensible reason why anyone would privately buy a brand new car.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 22, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I can't think of a single sensible reason why anyone would privately buy a brand new car.




Only this:



70,000,000 to 1 though. So fails on the sensible bit.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 22, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Anyway there are less shit cars on road these days cos jumped up kids are driving Golfs and Merc A Class on 18 and 19 plates, cutting me up in my shit heap cos they're spending 40% of their net income each month on a fucking car the little pricks


Your eyes are a lovely shade of green


----------



## T & P (Aug 22, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I can't think of a single sensible reason why anyone would privately buy a brand new car.


The smell, man, the smell.

(though admittedly you'd stil get the brand new car smell if you lease a brand new car  )


----------



## hash tag (Aug 22, 2019)

my first car, if I remember, cost me £400


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 22, 2019)

hash tag said:


> my first car, if I remember, cost me £400



Mine was £50!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Aug 22, 2019)

T & P said:


> The smell, man, the smell.
> 
> (though admittedly you'd stil get the brand new car smell if you lease a brand new car  )


...


----------



## hash tag (Aug 22, 2019)

that looks fowl


----------



## marty21 (Aug 22, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Mine was £50!


Mine was free  my sister bought a Ford Fiesta from our Dad's aunty , she had it from new (1984) and it only had about 25,000 on the clock when my sister gave her a grand for it in 97 or so . When I passed my test finally in 97 (6th attempt ) . My sister gave me the car  I had it for 5 years and then gave it to a work mate for her 18 year old son , he felt guilty getting it for nothing so gave me a bottle of JD for it  . I think he had it another 2 years.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 22, 2019)

marty21 said:


> When I passed my test finally in 97 (6th attempt ) .



Oh, dear.


----------



## T & P (Aug 22, 2019)

I’ve always been in two minds about the importance of car depreciation. AFAIAC if one is financially tight they should not buy a brand new car, period. But if you can afford it, and are lucky enough not to have to rely on making as much profit as possible when you sell it later on, why would you give a fuck if a brand new car instantly depreciates by a few grand when you drive it out of the dealership? It is as much of a vanity, loss-making “investment” as a nearly new car.

Unless they are vintage/ collector items, cars depreciate so they are not an investment, and you will make a net loss when you sell it later. So if someone is feeling all clever because they’ve bought bought a car that is eight months old with 7k miles on the clock that was 12 grand instead of 15, fair enough. But their purchase is still a vanity acquisition that will return a net loss, and still poor value for money compared to someone who chooses a cheaper utilitarian model, or a reliable older car that would be even cheaper.

So if someone fancies getting brand new car simply as a guilty pleasure, I am not sure those buying a pre-owned one that still costs 85% of the price tag of the new one have much grounds for mocking the lack of financial prowess of those buying a brand new car. If the difference was 50% or more, it might be a different story.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 22, 2019)

hash tag said:


> my first car, if I remember, cost me £400


Mine was £200. 

A blue Mark1 Escort, TBL 277G.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 22, 2019)

My current car cost £800. Despite my earlier comments they're just fucking cars, if they work it's sound


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 22, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Mine was £200.
> 
> A blue Mark1 Escort, TBL 277G.


£75 for a 1300cc 2 door MK2 Escort with a blown engine. A week later it had a 2ltr Pinto shoehorned in.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 5, 2019)

Developer fails after founder jailed for cocaine car crash |  Construction Enquirer

Get coked off your nut and then drive your sports car into a tree so fast it ejects the engine.  Would have been OK had it not been for the poor woman sat next to him at the time.

Not turning up to court on time because you overslept was a nice touch.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 5, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Developer fails after founder jailed for cocaine car crash |  Construction Enquirer
> 
> Get coked off your nut and then drive your sports car into a tree so fast it ejects the engine.  Would have been OK had it not been for the poor woman sat next to him at the time.
> 
> Not turning up to court on time because you overslept was a nice touch.



He specialises in turning existing buldings into microapartments apparently.

And now he's got a microapartment of his very own for the next 22 months, courtesy of Her Majesty. He must be delighted.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 5, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> He specialises in turning existing buldings into microapartments apparently.
> 
> And now he's got a microapartment of his very own for the next 22 months, courtesy of Her Majesty. He must be delighted.



He does sound like a real asset to society.  How will we cope in his absence?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 5, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> The time before satnav was famously one of nobody ever getting anywhere.


You joke, but IMO the best thing about it is auto-routing around jams. I've been saved decent amounts of time between london and bristol because google knows there's a pileup on the M4 and can send me on an alternate A-road route. Got to see some lovely scenery too


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 5, 2019)

This cunt only got 22 months’ imprisonment. 



> AN “ARROGANT” driver smashed into a tree leaving his passenger with “life-changing” injuries.
> 
> Martin Skinner was speeding along a country road when he lost control of his red Porsche and crashed.
> 
> The impact was so forceful it sent the car’s engine flying out of the vehicle and the passenger, a 30-year-old woman, was left with serious brain injuries.



Passenger left with brain injuries after 'arrogant' Porsche driver smashed into tree


----------



## hash tag (Sep 5, 2019)

She declined not to give him leniance for his guilty plea and sentenced him to 22 months (out in 10 months?) and disqualified for 2 years and his passenger
has her life ruined!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 5, 2019)

hash tag said:


> She declined not to give him leniance for his guilty plea and sentenced him to 22 months (out in 10 months?) and disqualified for 2 years and his passenger
> has her life ruined!



Cunt rolled up to court in a McLaren too.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 6, 2019)

And his slum landlord developer business has gone bust. Developer in administration after owner jailed over car crash


----------



## Poi E (Sep 6, 2019)

Racism! North Coast 500 driver in jury racism claim


----------



## weltweit (Sep 6, 2019)

Just to come back to driving standards for a mo.. 

I have found it easier recently to stick to the 30mph limit if I drive in 3rd gear.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 6, 2019)

Sounds like you have been on a speed awareness course


----------



## nick (Sep 6, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Sounds like you have been on a speed awareness course



Although I am a perfect driver: I can't but happen to have noticed that driver awareness courses over the next 120 days in south of London are few and far between - with none over the December period


----------



## weltweit (Sep 6, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Sounds like you have been on a speed awareness course


----------



## weltweit (Sep 6, 2019)

I have also noticed, courtesy of fb, that in my local village some good people are starting a speed awareness campaign which might include getting a camera enforcement vehicle here, once they have worked out the times when there is most speeding. I am determined not to be one that is caught speeding right here!!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 6, 2019)

weltweit said:


> Just to come back to driving standards for a mo..
> 
> I have found it easier recently to stick to the 30mph limit if I drive in 3rd gear.


What were you doing before, keeping it in fifth


----------



## weltweit (Sep 6, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> What were you doing before, keeping it in fifth


I would frequently get into 4th, in which it was a little too easy to increase my speed above 30.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 6, 2019)

weltweit said:


> I would frequently get into 4th, in which it was a little too easy to increase my speed above 30.


Yeah tbf I often to into 4th in 30 zones in my shit little 1.2 clio cos it's north of 30 on revs by time I get to 30mph, in better cars with bigger engines I find it easier to stay in 3rd


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 7, 2019)

On the speed course I went on they wibbled on about 3rd gear for 30. 

On these courses you get a mixture of people; some are shamed to have have broken the law, some don’t care and are just there to avoid the points and you get the belligerent twonks who feel their driving skills are so shit hot that the course is beneath then. The instructors see these divs every time and every time they make dicks of themselves. On my course the most sneering belligerent div chose 3rd gear to embarrass himself with:

“I drive an automatic, so can’t select a gear.”

Oh dear.

He then had an argument with them that his was the one automatic in the world that didn’t have the ability to select a gear, ending with him sheepishly admitting that he had never read the manual for his car, at first cos he didn’t need to cos he’s so fucking Ayrton Senna and that, but of course had he done so he’d know how to select a gear...


----------



## hash tag (Sep 7, 2019)

It is certainly easier to maintain gear selection with a manual box.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 7, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yeah tbf I often to into 4th in 30 zones in my shit little 1.2 clio cos it's north of 30 on revs by time I get to 30mph, in better cars with bigger engines I find it easier to stay in 3rd


I have a 1.2 Corsa .. which despite its small engine size can easily exceed 30


----------



## Winot (Sep 7, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> On the speed course I went on they wibbled on about 3rd gear for 30.
> 
> On these courses you get a mixture of people; some are shamed to have have broken the law, some don’t care and are just there to avoid the points and you get the belligerent twonks who feel their driving skills are so shit hot that the course is beneath then. The instructors see these divs every time and every time they make dicks of themselves. On my course the most sneering belligerent div chose 3rd gear to embarrass himself with:
> 
> ...



My 2005 Prius doesn’t let you choose a gear. It’s got a ‘brake’ mode for going down steep hills but that’s it.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 7, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> On the speed course I went on they wibbled on about 3rd gear for 30.



Actually at my awareness course it was only one of the punters that mentioned 3rd gear, the instructors didn't mention it. Nevertheless it seems to help. 



Bahnhof Strasse said:


> On these courses you get a mixture of people; some are shamed to have have broken the law, some don’t care and are just there to avoid the points and you get the belligerent twonks who feel their driving skills are so shit hot that the course is beneath then. The instructors see these divs every time and every time they make dicks of themselves. On my course the most sneering belligerent div chose 3rd gear to embarrass himself with:



Yes, we had a mix of a few types at mine also. I however saw the most potential hazards during the video they showed. I saw 15 items worth remarking on while some only saw 5.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 7, 2019)

weltweit said:


> I have found it easier recently to stick to the 30mph limit if I drive in 3rd gear.



Just me but I find the occasional look at the speedometer to be just the ticket. Or not, as the case may be.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 7, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Just me but I find the occasional look at the speedometer to be just the ticket. Or not, as the case may be.


I just find it too easy at 30 to slightly increase and approach the 10%+2 tolerance. I look at the speedo frequently in a 30, and just found using 3rd that I maintain 30 more often than when I go into 4th. That is just my feeling, it doesn't have to be the same for everyone.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 7, 2019)

30 MPH is 30 MPH. Under law there is not set allowance or tolerence, It was rumoured that many manufacturers over stated the speeds showing on speedometers
as they didnt want their cars getting a reputation for law breaking.

Anyway, why are so many being hung up about 30 MPH limits. Round about my parts and Lambeth also, many of the major roads have 20 MPH limits!


----------



## hash tag (Sep 7, 2019)

This just popped into view, be warned London 20mph road plan 'given green light'


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 7, 2019)

weltweit said:


> I have a 1.2 Corsa .. which despite its small engine size can easily exceed 30


Well yeah I can exceed 30, it's a car not a moped, it's just if I do it in 3rd it revs high is all


----------



## weltweit (Sep 7, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Well yeah I can exceed 30, it's a car not a moped, it's just if I do it in 3rd it revs high is all


That is why I am using 3rd, because it is more apparent when I go a little too fast in a 30.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 7, 2019)

Winot said:


> My 2005 Prius doesn’t let you choose a gear. It’s got a ‘brake’ mode for going down steep hills but that’s it.



Cars that can run wholly electric are different, but the pious bellends who drive them never break the speed limit anyway, so moot point.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 7, 2019)

hash tag said:


> This just popped into view, be warned London 20mph road plan 'given green light'



Its already the case in some London boroughs.  I think I'm the only person in the entire City that takes any notice.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 7, 2019)

I thought I partly said that in my previous post...never mind.


----------



## Winot (Sep 7, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Cars that can run wholly electric are different, but the pious bellends who drive them never break the speed limit anyway, so moot point.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 7, 2019)

hash tag said:


> This just popped into view, be warned London 20mph road plan 'given green light'


Legislation, meet current reality. Average speed lower no doubt.


----------



## T & P (Sep 7, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Cars that can run wholly electric are different, but the pious bellends who drive them never break the speed limit anyway, so moot point.


Not those who drive Zipcar e-Golfs though


----------



## weltweit (Sep 7, 2019)

We have some 20s near schools locally but they are only active when lights are on, despite that some motorists clearly can't read signs!


----------



## T & P (Sep 7, 2019)

Re using a 3rd gear as an aid to stay below 30 mph. Many if not most modern cars are more efficient (and therefore less polluting) on 4th at 30 mph than on 3rd.

Given that pollution, in big cities at least, is almost certainly more damaging and ultimately kills and maims more people than those who might be killed every year *as a direct result* of going slightly over 30 mph, suggesting travelling in 3rd at 30 mph simply to keep speed in check seems to me an extraordinarily absurd proposition, to be perfectly honest.

Even more so when you think that those tempted to use such technique are cautious and safe drivers in the first place, who are already trying to be as safe as possible. How many serious accidents a year are there going to be that are directly caused by a cautious driver who accidentally goes a few mph over the limit? And any driver with basic skills should be able to tell if he is travelling far too fast (as opposed to a little bit over the limit).

Unless the whole exercise is really about avoiding getting caught speeding, rather than ensuring the upmost levels of road safety, which is another matter altogether.


----------



## T & P (Sep 7, 2019)

Incidentally, any posters who have in the past advocated severe punishments including automatic bans for anyone breaking the 20 mph limit in a 20 mph zone should realise that going 4-5 mph over 20 is far easier than 4-5 mph over 30.

So until we’ve reached the day when autonomous driving or intelligent speed limiters that automatically adjust are compulsory on all vehicles, calling for zero tolerance policing of 20 mph and punishing someone clocked doing 25 mph on a 20 zone is as draconian as is unworkable. I’d gladly bet all my possessions on just about every single driver who says they religiously observe the 20 mph limit to accidentally exceed it by no less than 4-5 mph regularly, if not on every single journey they undertake.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 7, 2019)

T & P said:


> Re using a 3rd gear as an aid to stay below 30 mph. Many if not most modern cars are more efficient (and therefore less polluting) on 4th at 30 mph than on 3rd.
> 
> Given that pollution, in big cities at least, is almost certainly more damaging and ultimately kills and maims more people than those who might be killed every year *as a direct result* of going slightly over 30 mph, suggesting travelling in 3rd at 30 mph simply to keep speed in check seems to me an extraordinarily absurd proposition, to be perfectly honest.
> 
> Even more so when you think that those tempted to use such technique are cautious and safe drivers in the first place, who are already trying to be as safe as possible. How many serious accidents a year are there going to be that are directly caused by a cautious driver who accidentally goes a few mph over the limit? And any driver with basic skills should be able to tell if he is travelling far too fast (as opposed to a little bit over the limit).


I don't live in a big city, and I find that time spent watching my speedo is time not spent looking out for hazards which is why I like 3rd gear because it is easier to feel the speed compared to 4th.



T & P said:


> Unless the whole exercise is really about avoiding getting caught speeding, rather than ensuring the upmost levels of road safety, which is another matter altogether.


Primarily I don't want to be caught speeding yes.

If I had cruise control I would use that.


----------



## T & P (Sep 7, 2019)

Luckily the authorities have always shown common sense in that department, despite not officially admitting to it. You’d be very unlucky indeed to ever be flashed let alone prosecuted for doing up to 35-37 on a 30. 

But what you describe is a good example of the folly that would be introducing a very strict policing of speed limits, certainly at the lower end of the spectrum where accidentally going over it by a few mph is all but unavailable. Having to watch the speedometer constantly in a world where being caught doing 24 on a 20 even momentarily would land you a severe punishment would do more harm than good on the whole. Best to wait until automatic speed limiters or self driving cars arrive.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 7, 2019)

T & P said:


> Luckily the authorities have always shown common sense in that department, despite not officially admitting to it. You’d be very unlucky indeed to ever be flashed let alone prosecuted for doing up to 35-37 on a 30.


I'm pretty sure that 35 - 37 in a 30 would land you a ticket 99% of the time.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 7, 2019)

My understanding is that it is 10% + 2 .. so I was ticketed doing 79 in a 70 because 10% would have been 77 plus 2 makes 79 and that was me .. 

However, in a 30 it would be 33 + 2 = 35 at which point you would get a ticket.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 7, 2019)

T & P said:


> Luckily the authorities have always shown common sense in that department, despite not officially admitting to it. You’d be very unlucky indeed to ever be flashed let alone prosecuted for doing up to 35-37 on a 30.
> 
> But what you describe is a good example of the folly that would be introducing a very strict policing of speed limits, certainly at the lower end of the spectrum where accidentally going over it by a few mph is all but unavailable. Having to watch the speedometer constantly in a world where being caught doing 24 on a 20 even momentarily would land you a severe punishment would do more harm than good on the whole. Best to wait until automatic speed limiters or self driving cars arrive.


This isn't true. Other half had to do a speed awareness course couple of years back for 33 in a 30 (camera) and a mate had to do course for 65 in a 60 (on dual carriageway but variable speed - copper on a bridge with a gun)


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 7, 2019)

weltweit said:


> My understanding is that it is 10% + 2 .. so I was ticketed doing 79 in a 70 because 10% would have been 77 plus 2 makes 79 and that was me ..
> 
> However, in a 30 it would be 33 + 2 = 35 at which point you would get a ticket.


The 10 + 2 thing isn't hard and fast and different forces have different stances

What is the "10%+2" rule and what does it mean? - Road Law Barristers


----------



## T & P (Sep 7, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm pretty sure that 35 - 37 in a 30 would land you a ticket 99% of the time.


Perhaps, but then it’s also possible cars’ speedometers err on the side of caution a bit to avoid any chance of lawsuits? No harm done if your car is giving you a reading 2-3 mph slower than your true speed. But if a model was proven to deliver readings just 2-3 mph slower than the true speed, the consequences of being sued by car owners and losing would be catas


Proper Tidy said:


> This isn't true. Other half had to do a speed awareness course couple of years back for 33 in a 30 (camera) and a mate had to do course for 65 in a 60 (on dual carriageway but variable speed - copper on a bridge with a gun)


Wow, surprised to hear that.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 7, 2019)

Since I got my ticket and awareness course I have been observing the limits more rigorously. TBF the only one I used to break all the time was the motorway limit. Anyhow I have noticed that staying at 70 rather than the 80 odd I used to do, I now get about 30-40 miles more per tank of petrol.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 8, 2019)

T & P said:


> Perhaps, but then it’s also possible cars’ speedometers err on the side of caution a bit to avoid any chance of lawsuits? No harm done if your car is giving you a reading 2-3 mph slower than your true speed. But if a model was proven to deliver readings just 2-3 mph slower than the true speed, the consequences of being sued by car owners and losing would be catas
> 
> Wow, surprised to hear that.


Which has absolutely nothing to do with actual speed, and 35 to 37 in a 30


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 8, 2019)

Frau Bahn and I both got done by the same camera in Chertsey and the NIP stayed both times 36mph.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 8, 2019)

T & P said:


> Perhaps, but then it’s also possible cars’ speedometers err on the side of caution a bit to avoid any chance of lawsuits? No harm done if your car is giving you a reading 2-3 mph slower than your true speed. But if a model was proven to deliver readings just 2-3 mph slower than the true speed, the consequences of being sued by car owners and losing would be catas
> .





hash tag said:


> 30 MPH is 30 MPH. Under law there is not set allowance or tolerence, It was rumoured that many manufacturers over stated the speeds showing on speedometers
> as they didnt want their cars getting a reputation for law breaking.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 8, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Frau Bahn and I both got done by the same camera in Chertsey and the NIP stayed both times 36mph.



Audi drivers; speaks for itself really.



T & P said:


> Perhaps, but then it’s also possible cars’ speedometers err on the side of caution a bit to avoid any chance of lawsuits? No harm done if your car is giving you a reading 2-3 mph slower than your true speed.



On the whole, Mrs t is very good at observing the speed limits 

As for watching the speedo; the Mazda has a heads up display which shows what spped you are doing.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 8, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Audi drivers; speaks for itself really.



They have a fucking nerve doing us tbf, I think they only did it so they could send us a picture of our lovely looking motor.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 8, 2019)

Spot the stand out car..ZZzzzzz


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 8, 2019)

The Mazda 6


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> The Mazda 6



The Renault is definitely the fugliest, but I'm sure it makes up for it by also being the worst.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 8, 2019)

T & P said:


> Luckily the authorities have always shown common sense in that department, despite not officially admitting to it. You’d be very unlucky indeed to ever be flashed let alone prosecuted for doing up to 35-37 on a 30.



Not as unlucky as the person you crash into and kill while cunting about at near 40 in a 30 zone.

None of this 10+2 stuff is relevant if you know how to drive properly. The speed limits are up on big signs, you don't have to do any maths to figure them out.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 8, 2019)

i have been done at 37 in a 30 zone  at 4AM in the north circular area. 3 points. my problem not theirs.


----------



## a_chap (Sep 8, 2019)

I was once stopped by a police car (that I was trying to get away from) in Leeds late one night. I was doing 50+mph in a 30 zone and I never got a ticket.

But then there was quite an amusing story surrounding the circumstances 

If I had more time I'd go into detail but I'm cooking Sunday dinner right now, sorry.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 8, 2019)

T & P said:


> Incidentally, any posters who have in the past advocated severe punishments including automatic bans for anyone breaking the 20 mph limit in a 20 mph zone should realise that going 4-5 mph over 20 is far easier than 4-5 mph over 30.
> 
> So until we’ve reached the day when autonomous driving or intelligent speed limiters that automatically adjust are compulsory on all vehicles, calling for zero tolerance policing of 20 mph and punishing someone clocked doing 25 mph on a 20 zone is as draconian as is unworkable. I’d gladly bet all my possessions on just about every single driver who says they religiously observe the 20 mph limit to accidentally exceed it by no less than 4-5 mph regularly, if not on every single journey they undertake.



If you think a drift of 4-5mph is a natural and acceptable variance, and you know that going over 20mph in a 20mph zone will get you a fine (or worse), then you will set your baseline speed at 15mph and drift between 15mph and 20mph, rather than between 20 and 25. It's a simple, workable solution to the issue of natural speed variance and the need to be paying more attention to the road around you than your speedo.

That attitude that the posted speed limit is the speed you should be driving at is the problem here, rather than there being something that makes tight enforcement of speed limits unfair to be enforced.


----------



## T & P (Sep 8, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not as unlucky as the person you crash into and kill while cunting about at near 40 in a 30 zone.
> 
> None of this 10+2 stuff is relevant if you know how to drive properly. The speed limits are up on big signs, you don't have to do any maths to figure them out.


Of course. And imo all drivers should be experienced enough to never accidentally exceed a 30 mph by as much as 8-9 mph, certainly in their own cars or a rental car that is not absurdly powerful.

But momentarily exceeding a 30 mph by, say, 3 mph is not that difficult even if one is being cautious, so prosecuting drivers for doing 33 on a 30 is utterly absurd and might do more harm than good in the long term. From both the increased pollution from people driving in a far less efficient 3rd gear instead of 4th because they are so concerned about exceeding the limit even by the slightest margin, and from those checking their speedometer needle constantly just in case, god fucking forbid, they press the accelerator slightly at 25 mph and it propels them to 32 mph for a few moments.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 10, 2019)

I wasn't speeding honest! A very difficult one to prove I suspect Man spends £30,000 fighting £100 speeding fine


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 10, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I wasn't speeding honest! A very difficult one to prove I suspect Man spends £30,000 fighting £100 speeding fine






> Retired engineer Mr Keedwell, of Yate in Gloucestershire, claimed he "was certainly not doing more than 30mph" in New Road in November 2016.
> 
> He said: "I was very surprised when a couple of days later I got the NIP [Notice of Intended Prosecution].
> 
> "I really could not believe that I had been speeding. *It made a simple day out turn very sour actually.*"



No shit!






> I regret the amount of money. I very simply wanted justice.



Mug.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 10, 2019)

A toxic mix of righteous indignation and too much time on his hands.  What a knob.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 10, 2019)

Honest John was littered with letters like this years ago. Lots of finger wagging from retired colonels and people who wear
driving gloves with knots in them. Ive been driving for 45 years without a single driving offence ever and now, out of the blue
I get a speeding ticket for 44 MPH in a 40 limit; how is this possible?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 10, 2019)

My ticket was for 36 in a 30 (roadside camera in cardiff). The Gear*10mph advice at the course was the most helpful thing I took from it. The mpg indicator in my car (small 2009 petrol engine) maxes out at 60 when I'm doing 30mph in 3rd or 4th, so I don't see the pollution argument there.

Oh and I notice that google maps now has a mph indicator, which in my car is reliably 2mph faster than the speedo.


----------



## T & P (Sep 10, 2019)

As we currently don't have a cycling standards-style thread running, I thought I would leave this here. Road user vs. pedestrian in urban environment, so relevant to the general theme of behaviour on the roads.



Cyclist headbutts pedestrian who told him off for jumping red light | Metro News

I hope the catch the cunt soon enough...


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 10, 2019)

Meanwhile,  from drivers:

A KITTEN was thrown from a moving car on a busy dual carriageway before being hit by several vehicles.

'Horrified' police hunt man who threw kitten from moving car on A64


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 10, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Meanwhile,  from drivers:
> 
> A KITTEN was thrown from a moving car on a busy dual carriageway before being hit by several vehicles.
> 
> 'Horrified' police hunt man who threw kitten from moving car on A64


Anyone who could do that deserves a proper kicking... but cats are renowned for climbing up into the engine bay of a vehicle with a warm engine. It's happened to me twice. It's also happened to both my mother and father (who have a few cats) a few times. I'd suspect this was more likely the case than someone throwing a kitten out of the window on the motorway.


----------



## Looby (Sep 18, 2019)

This happened near me where people drive like absolute bellends.

The road is 20 mph and is used as a rat run.






Apparently the driver wasn’t speeding and was blinded by the sun. Hmmm


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 18, 2019)

Blinded by their own magnificence if driving an Audi


----------



## hash tag (Sep 18, 2019)

To be expected from n Audi driver. Anyone who buys an Audi is generally blind.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 18, 2019)

Elite parking skills


----------



## hash tag (Sep 18, 2019)

Bloody Audi drivers, think they own the roads and can drive wherever and however they like.


----------



## rubbershoes (Sep 18, 2019)

Looks like an A3.  The worst Audi drivers IMO


----------



## Looby (Sep 18, 2019)

It was an A3. Someone across the road has the same car, I’m waiting to see if the car is there later as I suspect they might be the culprits.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 19, 2019)

The black wall tunnel to M11 un is like something out of GTA late at night over the weekends  - rarely have I seen  so many narsty overpolished krautboxes weaving through the traffic at a ton. What kind of wanker buys a German car ?


----------



## dervish (Sep 19, 2019)

How did that audi actually physically manage that? Unless it's the sort of bollards that sneak up on unwary drivers from underneath??? 

Even at speed that is pretty special.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 19, 2019)

Audi drivers are pretty special.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 19, 2019)

not-bono-ever said:


> What kind of wanker buys a German car ?



Recommend a fastish estate




			
				not-bono-ever said:
			
		

> ii ned new wheels / estate when i get back from an overseas trip - thinking about a mondy or a BMW 520/40



It's a mystery, inn't.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 19, 2019)

Lolz. It’s a fair cop guv


----------



## hash tag (Sep 19, 2019)

Looby said:


> It was an A3. Someone across the road has the same car, I’m waiting to see if the car is there later as I suspect they might be the culprits.



Was it a local?


----------



## Looby (Sep 21, 2019)

dervish said:


> How did that audi actually physically manage that? Unless it's the sort of bollards that sneak up on unwary drivers from underneath???
> 
> Even at speed that is pretty special.



Fuck knows but there’s no way the driver wasn’t speeding as reported and was just blinded by the sun. 

I feel like the bollards and the reduction to 20mph has just given the dicks more of a challenge.

There’s a crossroad junction at the bottom and we regularly hear skids and big crashes. 



hash tag said:


> Was it a local?



It’s not the people across the road but definitely a local. 7.30am on a work day on a well used rat run.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 21, 2019)

A local  Someone who knew the chicane was there


----------



## weltweit (Sep 21, 2019)

After extensive real world testing, I can confirm, vaping while driving is distracting.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 21, 2019)

dervish said:


> How did that audi actually physically manage that? Unless it's the sort of bollards that sneak up on unwary drivers from underneath???
> 
> Even at speed that is pretty special.


They crashed into the kerb which lifted the car a little, and then hit the outer bollard, which bent forward with the impact. The car or some component under it then rode up the bollard. The combination of the bollard's resting point and the front-heavy nature of the car left it nose-down at that stupid angle. I wouldn't like to try and judge speed from the outcome but I reckon you could probably manage that at 30mph or less if you didn't slow down at all.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 21, 2019)

Looby said:


> This happened near me where people drive like absolute bellends.
> 
> The road is 20 mph and is used as a rat run.
> 
> ...


Triple Salchow, 12 points


----------



## hash tag (Oct 15, 2019)

Banned for 2 years. previously banned 4 times.
How will I get to see my terminally ill mum? What if there is a medical emergency?
Welcome to the real world, you should of thought of these things before you got yourself banned Yahoo is now part of Verizon Media


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 15, 2019)

Blinded by the sun

Translation 

On me phone


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 15, 2019)

"It wasn't me who was driving, it's cos I (like nearly everyone else in the land) share a postcode with my neighbours"

"I'm going to appeal"

"The former glamour model - *who entered a guilty plea* at a hearing in August"


----------



## hash tag (Oct 15, 2019)

Just fancy, you share your post code with someone else. How frightful


----------



## hash tag (Oct 25, 2019)

93 in a 50 limit on a dodgy road surely deserves a ban, but hey, its an Audi 
Driver dodges ban after filming himself driving at 100mph on 'deadly road'


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 25, 2019)

hash tag said:


> 93 in a 50 limit on a dodgy road surely deserves a ban, but hey, its an Audi
> Driver dodges ban after filming himself driving at 100mph on 'deadly road'



Mate of mine got banned for doing 100 on a motorway, first offence as well.  100 in a 50 is well worthy of a ban.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 25, 2019)

Agreed. Snake Pass as well. Single track, bendy, hilly....nah.


----------



## T & P (Nov 30, 2019)

Amusing confrontation between driver seen on her phone at the wheel and the cyclist who was filming her...

www.liveleak.com/e/9gOBS_1574950864


----------



## hash tag (Nov 30, 2019)

That's a bit difficult in my mobile in a public place...A. it's a stupid big 4x4 thing and B. People don't seem to appreciate the dangers and C. People don't equate driving offences with criminal records, which of course they are not. If I got points, I could still do my job. If I got a criminal record I would lose my job.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 7, 2019)

Car flips at McDonald's drive-through
article with a terrible photo and no real information but thought I'd post a link anyway.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 8, 2019)




----------



## hash tag (Dec 10, 2019)

I thought this was worth posting at least twice


----------



## hash tag (Dec 16, 2019)

I would have thought he could have opened the windows like any normal car driver
Smoking driver 'blows up' car with air freshener


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 16, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I would have thought he could have opened the windows like any normal car driver
> Smoking driver 'blows up' car with air freshener



He must had done the most god-awful fart to need that much air freshener


----------



## 2hats (Dec 16, 2019)

Looby said:


> This happened near me where people drive like absolute bellends.
> 
> The road is 20 mph and is used as a rat run.
> 
> ...


It does alert you by helpfully having a warning sign 'COCK' on the front (and rear) of the vehicle.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 17, 2019)

Don't know how the hell this happened, but did the lorry driver not hear a little know as he hit the VW?
Ellie Goulding helps driver shunted by truck


----------



## mauvais (Dec 17, 2019)

That's not the first time that's happened. Someone cuts up an HGV, gets clipped by it, rotates and is pushed along in front, out of normal sightlines. In terms of HGV mass and power, a car ain't that big a deal.

There is always the possibility that the driver knew and thought fuck it, I guess


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 17, 2019)

Some cunt driving a local care in the community minibus has just done this to our car:
 

They have admitted full responsibility, and a hire car will arrive in the morning. The garage says with Xmas on the way it may be a month before they get it fixed. With the hire car being an X5, ouch to their insurance.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 17, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Don't know how the hell this happened, but did the lorry driver not hear a little know as he hit the VW?
> Ellie Goulding helps driver shunted by truck


that's what I thought - how could the lorry driver not know ? and if they can't tell


----------



## nick (Dec 17, 2019)

Bahnhoff. They seem to have knocked out one fog light and scratched the bumper. Are you sure that they will be able to get all that damage sorted in only a month?


----------



## 2hats (Dec 17, 2019)

marty21 said:


> that's what I thought - how could the lorry driver not know ? and if they can't tell


It's happened before...


----------



## marty21 (Dec 17, 2019)

2hats said:


> It's happened before...



I know it has, just amazed that a lorry driver wouldn't know they were pushing a car along


----------



## mauvais (Dec 17, 2019)

marty21 said:


> I know it has, just amazed that a lorry driver wouldn't know they were pushing a car along


A HGV tractor like that pulls up to 44 tonnes. A Mk5 Golf weighs about 1.5 tonnes.

Visibility is poor:






They're noisy. Add all that up and it turns out it's possible to push a car along without immediately noticing.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 17, 2019)

nick said:


> Bahnhoff. They seem to have knocked out one fog light and scratched the bumper. Are you sure that they will be able to get all that damage sorted in only a month?



The front spoiler is split in two, the thing that squirts water on to the headlights is fucked, as is the headlight itself, plus the bonnet and wing are now mid-aligned and the suspension is fucked.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 17, 2019)

Would the lorry drivers not have heard the contact?


----------



## hash tag (Dec 17, 2019)

You sure thats not a front wing thats been damaged and needs replacing also?


----------



## nick (Dec 17, 2019)

Sorry to take the piss Bahnhoff, hope you're not too inconvenienced



But it still looks like a bit of T-cut would sort it


----------



## hash tag (Dec 17, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse time to replace it? How to buy a second hand car?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 17, 2019)

hash tag said:


> You sure thats not a front wing thats been damaged and needs replacing also?



I think it will need a new wing, suspension seeing to, obviously a new bit at the front, possibly (another) new bonnet. All colour matched etc, plus the light-washer thing replaced, parking sensors; all adds up to a lot of work/cost. But for once it isn't Frau Bahn's fault, except choosing to park where she did, but I'll let that slide as I value my testicles.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 17, 2019)

Front bumper, wing, suspension.......hmmm, sure you want to hang on to it?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 17, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Front bumper, wing, suspension.......hmmm, sure you want to hang on to it?



Yeah, the insurance will do it up as good as new.


----------



## Marty1 (Dec 17, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Some cunt driving a local care in the community minibus has just done this to our car:
> View attachment 193274
> 
> They have admitted full responsibility, and a hire car will arrive in the morning. The garage says with Xmas on the way it may be a month before they get it fixed. With the hire car being an X5, ouch to their insurance.



How did they do that - reverse into you?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 17, 2019)

Marty1 said:


> How did they do that - reverse into you?



Dunno, was in a car park with Frau Bahn in the gym, they left a note saying they misjudged a turn. Hassle, but no real harm done.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 18, 2019)

mauvais said:


> A HGV tractor like that pulls up to 44 tonnes. A Mk5 Golf weighs about 1.5 tonnes.
> 
> Visibility is poor:
> 
> ...



I broadly agree with you, but the front mirror gives visibility to the front blind spot, if a driver checks it, which they don't have much call to do so if they are already moving I guess.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 18, 2019)

BigTom said:


> I broadly agree with you, but the front mirror gives visibility to the front blind spot, if a driver checks it, which they don't have much call to do so if they are already moving I guess.


It's (kind of) understandable that once a car gets in there the truck driver may not notice and push him along a bit. What's more challenging to get to grips with is how the car got in there in the first place without the truck driver noticing. From the way he's facing it seems he's cut in front of the lorry from the nearside lane, got collected and pushed along, but even at very low speed you'd expect the truck driver to notice the initial impact wouldn't you?


----------



## BigTom (Dec 18, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> It's (kind of) understandable that once a car gets in there the truck driver may not notice and push him along a bit. What's more challenging to get to grips with is how the car got in there in the first place without the truck driver noticing. From the way he's facing it seems he's cut in front of the lorry from the nearside lane, got collected and pushed along, but even at very low speed you'd expect the truck driver to notice the initial impact wouldn't you?



It'd be really interesting to see what happened, I'd agree the most likely explanation is that they've cut in front of the lorry, got hit on the rear side and turned around like in a PIT maneouver, I don't think you can expect the truck driver to notice the initial impact at a low speed, and it's possible that they were stationary when the car cut in front and i really wouldn't think they'd notice if they were moving off from stationary.
edit: that said, if moving off from stationary, they should have checked their front mirror.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 18, 2019)

From the start of the Ellie Goulding clip its impossible to tell whats happened.
There are no side turnings in view and I note it was on the A40, a 30 limit.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 18, 2019)

Well there's no way he came out of a side road and and got hit. The cab driver would have had to be on some serious drugs to miss that.

The driver's seat of the Golf is going to need some heavy duty cleaning though. He must have thought he'd pissed-off the driver from _Duel_.


----------



## T & P (Dec 18, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> It's (kind of) understandable that once a car gets in there the truck driver may not notice and push him along a bit. What's more challenging to get to grips with is how the car got in there in the first place without the truck driver noticing. From the way he's facing it seems he's cut in front of the lorry from the nearside lane, got collected and pushed along, but even at very low speed you'd expect the truck driver to notice the initial impact wouldn't you?


Having watched a few similar incidents in those Russian dash cam videos on YouTube, it tends to be exactly as you describe, and not that uncommon. Not saying it was the case here, but almost invariably it involves the driver of the car driving like a cunt and attempting to undertake the lorry and squeeze through a gap, only for karma to intervene.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 18, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I would have thought he could have opened the windows like any normal car driver
> Smoking driver 'blows up' car with air freshener



 Not the first time that’s happened either:

Air freshener causes car to explode

nobody tell the terrrrrrists.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 18, 2019)

mauvais said:


> A HGV tractor like that pulls up to 44 tonnes. A Mk5 Golf weighs about 1.5 tonnes.
> 
> Visibility is poor:
> 
> ...



This is why they’re pushing for HGVs with low cabs, London is mandating it in a few years.

Direct Vision Standard and HGV Safety Permit

A good thing IMO. Will provide a lot more awareness of immediate surroundings, providing the driver’s not watching videos on their phone.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2019)

So young, so much money, so little skill

Antonio crashed Lamborghini into a garden dressed as a snowman on Christmas Day


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2019)

Talking of lambo's, this apparently was an accident waiting to happen? Speed does not cause accidents  
BBC News - 'Speeding Lamborghini with children in back' stopped on M6
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-50933241:?:


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 28, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Talking of lambo's, this apparently was an accident waiting to happen? Speed does not cause accidents
> BBC News - 'Speeding Lamborghini with children in back' stopped on M6
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-50933241:?:



Probability of accident increases with speed for any given driver or vehicle.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 28, 2019)

Dp


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 28, 2019)

God knows what people think a 200mph Lamborghini is for if not speeding. The fucking things should be banned from all roads.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2019)

Is that why they are talking of introducing speed limits on the autobahns IN Germany?


----------



## weltweit (Dec 28, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Is that why they are talking of introducing speed limits on the autobahns IN Germany?


People have been talking for years but I doubt it will happen, even though the pile ups are legendary. 

There is a reason German cars are solid and stable at high speed and it is because of how they are used on the autobahn.

However limit free sections are not everywhere, on quite a lot of autobahn there are limits.


----------



## T & P (Dec 28, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Talking of lambo's, this apparently was an accident waiting to happen? Speed does not cause accidents
> BBC News - 'Speeding Lamborghini with children in back' stopped on M6
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-50933241:?:


 Perhaps the police meant children on back of a Lambo is an accident waiting to happen. It certainly seems a crime, and a waste of resources for such a vehicle


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2019)

The children in the back might have been the accident waiting to happen.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 28, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Talking of lambo's, this apparently was an accident waiting to happen? Speed does not cause accidents
> BBC News - 'Speeding Lamborghini with children in back' stopped on M6
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-50933241:?:



Page won’t load. But what Lambo other than the Urus has seats in the back?


----------



## two sheds (Dec 28, 2019)

I'm sure someone has brought this up but has anyone noticed how much younger policemen are looking nowadays?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 28, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> God knows what people think a 200mph Lamborghini is for if not speeding. The fucking things should be banned from all roads.



A Micra can do four times the speed limit with a fair wind behind it. Should ban them too.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 28, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> God knows what people think a 200mph Lamborghini is for if not speeding.


This man has never heard of "track days".


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 28, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> A Micra can do four times the speed limit with a fair wind behind it. Should ban them too.


Don't lower yourself into his cesspool of jealousy. It can be hard to find a way out.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 28, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> This man has never heard of "track days".


Or the fact that the throttle pedal isn't an on/off switch, and goes both ways.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2019)

Page has "moved"?
'Speeding Lamborghini with kids in back' stopped


----------



## weltweit (Dec 28, 2019)

In lots of regions more than a ton is always a ban.. 120 I expect would be a ban most places. Excepting Germany ..


----------



## 8ball (Dec 28, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> A Micra can do four times the speed limit with a fair wind behind it. Should ban them too.



A fair wind and a hill.

And I'd do it again!


----------



## T & P (Dec 28, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> God knows what people think a 200mph Lamborghini is for if not speeding. The fucking things should be banned from all roads.


Some might buy such cars for showing off.but in any event the overwhelming majority of all cars can be used for speeding on 70 mph roads- let alone on any other type of road or urban areas. A significant proportion can easily go faster than 100 mph as well, which tends to be the driving ban speed threshold as far as the authorities are concerned. So you’d end up banning everything above the likes of a 1.0 L Corsa.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 28, 2019)

My German boss used to hit 120 most mornings on his way to the office, he had a very nice 7 series BMW. I think it was a V12.

It being Germany there was no drama about it.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 29, 2019)

weltweit said:


> My German boss used to hit 120 most mornings on his way to the office


It took me over 6 months and a fair wedge of money to get my bike to go over 200mph. Some modern bikes will achieve that by simply plugging them into a PC and remapping the ECU. Don't you just love technology!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 29, 2019)

T & P said:


> So you’d end up banning everything above the likes of a 1.0 L Corsa.



Yep, fine with that.


----------



## sovereignb (Dec 29, 2019)

2am yesterday morning, woke up to a large BANG whilst staying at mums house. Family home is on a sharp corner and for years I have never parked directly outside the house. A driver I assume was drunk has crashed straight into the neighbours car. He eventually drives off hitting another car that was trying to pass, only to plough at speed into ANOTHER driver coming down the road...that car then smacks another parked car, causing damage. The fucker then drives off into a no entry road.

The 2nd car was a total right off, front of car completely fucked. Thankfully I managed to get the bastards licence plate. I gave my details to the neighbour and the driver as a witness and I believe both have reported to Police


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 30, 2019)

87 year old dies days after being imprisoned for dangerous driving.  

This should've been a suspended sentence. The judge was specifically told by doctors that he was too old and frail to do time.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> 87 year old dies days after being imprisoned for dangerous driving.
> 
> This should've been a suspended sentence. The judge was specifically told by doctors that he was too old and frail to do time.


I agree that he was too weak to survive prison, but it was causing death and serious injury by dangerous driving. I expect if he had escaped jail there would also have been comment.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2019)

On my own driving standard, I am currently paying a lot more attention to my driving and it seems to be paying dividends. I went through a period during which I had a couple of near misses which prompted me to review my care and attention when driving as it had become a bit slack.


----------



## mauvais (Dec 30, 2019)

weltweit said:


> On my own driving standard, I am currently paying a lot more attention to my driving and it seems to be paying dividends. I went through a period during which I had a couple of near misses which prompted me to review my care and attention when driving as it had become a bit slack.


Have you considered doing IAM or similar? Where in the world are you?


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 30, 2019)

A mate staying recently has commented on how courteous British drivers , compared to where he lives in southern France


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Have you considered doing IAM or similar? Where in the world are you?


That might be an idea. 
I am in the south west.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 30, 2019)

IAM have vols throughout the UK.
IAM RoadSmart | UK Road Safety Charity | Advanced Driver & Rider Courses


----------



## mauvais (Dec 30, 2019)

weltweit said:


> That might be an idea.
> I am in the south west.


There is or was a really good IAM group in Bristol, some of the best teachers in the country. Worth a look. You can do free assessment days outside of the IAM too. I'm quite out of the loop these days but if you want to go down that route I can probably help - let me know. It's worth the time.


----------



## T & P (Jan 1, 2020)

Spotted earlier this evening on Queenstown Rd, Battersea


----------



## hash tag (Jan 1, 2020)

Crikey. Although close to me,  It wasn't me, I haven't driven since yesterday.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 1, 2020)

PS. Don't forget, there was that fatal coach collision just a few days ago a few yards away from that


----------



## T & P (Jan 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> PS. Don't forget, there was that fatal coach collision just a few days ago a few yards away from that


I saw a yellow police board on Chelsea Bridge Road by the hotel. But that’s further than a few yards so I guess it’s a different fatal collision to the one you refer? 

As you will obviously know but those not familiar with this spot might not, there there is a sharp bend just before it. The cunt must have been treating it like the Monaco chicane to have overturned their car like that. One the bollards actually impaled through the car back window!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 1, 2020)

T & P said:


> Spotted earlier this evening on Queenstown Rd, Battersea



Parking spaces are few and far between round there, so gotta take it where you find it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> PS. Don't forget, there was that fatal coach collision just a few days ago a few yards away from that



Three BA mixed fleet* cabin crew killed NYE in Stanwell crashing in to a truck whilst racing (80mph+) to get to a do for midnight, 2339 hrs 


*unbelievably shit pay and seriously crap conditions.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 10, 2020)

Oh dear, shame Zara Tindall banned from driving after being caught speeding at 91mph


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 10, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Oh dear, shame Zara Tindall banned from driving after being caught speeding at 91mph





> Roger Utley, chairman of the bench, announced that as well as the six months ban the court was fining Mrs Tindall *£666* plus costs and a victim surcharge of *£151* - making a total to pay of £817.



How do they come up with figures like that?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 10, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> How do they come up with figures like that?



Pull it out of their hole, inn'it. Just like everything else in our 'justice system'.


Still, she gets paid to promote Land Rover, imagine that gig's gone for burton now


----------



## nick (Jan 10, 2020)

Land rover capable of going 91mph without disintegrating? 
It's great publicity
I imagine they will double the fee they pay her


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 10, 2020)

I seem to recall her husband serving a drink drive ban some time back not to mention the antics of her grandfather.  A danger to all of us that lot.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 10, 2020)

Not to mention Phil outside sandringham last year.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 10, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Not to mention Phil outside sandringham last year.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 10, 2020)

There's an echo in this room.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jan 10, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> I seem to recall her husband serving a drink drive ban some time back not to mention the antics of her grandfather.  A danger to all of us that lot.


I suspect she gets it from her mother...The Latin Times has amazingly detailed list:

*1972 (Age 22): Written Warning*

Princess Anne was caught speeding on the M1 in November 1972. The Thames Valley Police decided not to prosecute, instead opting to let the Princess Royal off with a written warning.

*1977 (Age 26): Fine Of £40*

Unfortunately for the free-spirited young royal, she was caught once again speeding on the previously mentioned road in January almost five years later. She hit over 90mph in a 70mph zone, which cost her a fine of £40 at the Alfreton Magistrates in Derbyshire. 

*1990 (Age 40): Fine Of £150 And Driving Ban For 1 Month*

Things escalated in 1990 when the then 40-year-old royal had once again been caught speeding. The Princess Royal pled guilty to two speeding offences in a Stow-on-the-Wold Magistrates court in Gloucestershire. Not only was she fined £150, but the royal also was banned from driving for almost a month. At that time, she claimed that she was “late for an engagement.”

*2000 (Age 50): Fine Of £400, £30 For Cost And Five Points On Her License*

The temporary ban had not seen the last of Anne’s mishaps with driving. In 2000, she was fined for doing 93mph on a 70mph dual carriageway — all while a police car was tailing her. The princess explained that she thought that the police car was an escort for her as she was heading to an engagement at that time. She was fined £400, ordered to pay £30 for costs and was marked five points on her license after pleading guilty.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 10, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> I suspect she gets it from her mother...The Latin Times has amazingly detailed list:
> 
> *1972 (Age 22): Written Warning*
> 
> ...


TBF, and apart from the level of fines (and the degree of speeding, to some extent), that doesn't look massively different from my own driving record.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jan 10, 2020)

existentialist said:


> TBF, and apart from the level of fines (and the degree of speeding, to some extent), that doesn't look massively different from my own driving record.


The excuses too?
_Existentialist explained that they thought that the police car was an escort for them as they were heading to an engagement at that time._


----------



## weltweit (Jan 10, 2020)

Distraction is the enemy of the safe driver ..


----------



## existentialist (Jan 10, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Distraction is the enemy of the safe driver ..


My god, that's profound!


----------



## weltweit (Jan 10, 2020)

existentialist said:


> My god, that's profound!


There is no need to be like that, I am just writing about my experiences!


----------



## existentialist (Jan 10, 2020)

weltweit said:


> There is no need to be like that, I am just writing about my experiences!


You write away. If I happen to have led such a sheltered life that such banalities are profound to me, then that's my problem.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 10, 2020)

The princess explained that she thought that the police car was an escort for her as she was heading to an engagement at that time.

 

Nice blag, must try it some time...


----------



## hash tag (Jan 11, 2020)

Florian Pratt, 70 MPH, wrong side of road, jailed for 16 months Horror moment biker thrown into air and suffers life changing injuries in crash


Spoiler: horrendous


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2020)

Absolutely dreadful driving to exit that bend on the wrong side of the road. He's done exactly the opposite of what he should have.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 11, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Florian Pratt, 70 MPH, wrong side of road, jailed for 16 months Horror moment biker thrown into air and suffers life changing injuries in crash
> 
> 
> Spoiler: horrendous



A friend of mine was killed on his bike in exactly the same way. The driver got 6 months.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 11, 2020)

I saw that in the news the other day. The driver presumably failed to identify or comprehend the bend, didn't slow down, and then understeered into the opposing lane as a result. Possibly some target fixation too, though there's not much time to do something better like go off. The biker reacts much better. It's curious that the following car also has a dashcam. I know they're common but not _that _common. Maybe it was a club drive or something.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 11, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Florian Pratt, 70 MPH, wrong side of road, jailed for 16 months Horror moment biker thrown into air and suffers life changing injuries in crash
> 
> 
> Spoiler: horrendous




That's shocking, both the crash & the short jail term.   



> "Thankfully, the motorcyclist was wearing a full leather, *air bag suit which activated and inflated as he was propelled off his bike*. Without it, in a collision at this speed, he would most likely have died.”



BIB, I've not heard of them before.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 11, 2020)

Air bag suit? Only slightly heard of them, if it helped I bet their sales are up now.

The biker seemed to be doing a stoppie as the collision was imminent, if it was intentional it probably saved his legs from getting tangled in his handlebars.

Pretty nightmare accident, amazing the biker survived.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Air bag suit? Only slightly heard of them, if it helped I bet their sales are up now.
> 
> The biker seemed to be doing a stoppie as the collision was imminent, if it was intentional it probably saved his legs from getting tangled in his handlebars.
> 
> Pretty nightmare accident, amazing the biker survived.


Not intentional. There's no way he had time to think that through. He's hauled on the front brake out of sheer terror and got lucky (for a certain value of "lucky").


----------



## weltweit (Jan 11, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Not intentional. There's no way he had time to think that through. He's hauled on the front brake out of sheer terror and got lucky (for a certain value of "lucky").


You might be surprised how many micro moments there are in an accident scenario in which you can take decisions. I hit a car head on on my motorbike (closing speed only 50 - 60mph though) and I was able to take a decision which may well have saved me. 

Although neither of them seem to have had the time or possibility to swerve for the side of the road which might have avoided the initial crash, for another. The biker probably couldn't have made such a change in direction but the car might have.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2020)

weltweit said:


> You might be surprised how many micro moments there are in an accident scenario in which you can take decisions. I hit a car head on on my motorbike (closing speed only 50 - 60mph though) and I was able to take a decision which may well have saved me.
> 
> Although neither of them seem to have had the time or possibility to swerve for the side of the road which might have avoided the initial crash, for another. The biker probably couldn't have made such a change in direction but the car might have.


The car driver could have run off the right side but he shouldn't have been there in the first place, of course. Horrible, horrible, crash.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 11, 2020)

weltweit said:


> The biker seemed to be doing a stoppie as the collision was imminent, if it was intentional it probably saved his legs from getting tangled in his handlebars.


It definitely wasn't intentional. He grabbed a handful of brake, and it was sheer luck that he didn't do it a fraction of a second sooner, or things would have been a lot worse for him.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 12, 2020)

Do a hit and run and leave someone to die?. That’ll be nine points and a fine of £115.









						Woman, 30, left the scene after hitting pedestrian who later died
					

The A39 was closed for several hours while police investigated the hit and run




					www.cornwalllive.com


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 12, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> Do a hit and run and leave someone to die?. That’ll be nine points and a fine of £115.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's not enough detail in that report, it happened in the 'early hours' near a Asda store on a 'A' road, no mention of what the speed limit was, although the photo shows 'national speed limit' signs & no pedestrian walkways, and there's no suggestion the driver was speeding.   

It's possible the victim was pissed, staggered out onto a busy/fast road, got clipped by the car, causing enough damage for them to die later, but perhaps not enough of an impact to alert the driver they had hit a person, rather than a fox or dog. 

The only charges were failing to stop and failing to report the incident, none for dangerous driving or causing death by dangerous driving. 

Yet many of the comments under the article are calling it 'manslaughter', despite nothing suggesting it was.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 12, 2020)

She did plead guilty for failing to stop.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 12, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> There's not enough detail in that report, it happened in the 'early hours' near a Asda store on a 'A' road, no mention of what the speed limit was, although the photo shows 'national speed limit' signs & no pedestrian walkways, and there's no suggestion the driver was speeding.
> 
> It's possible the victim was pissed, staggered out onto a busy/fast road, got clipped by the car, causing enough damage for them to die later, but perhaps not enough of an impact to alert the driver they had hit a person, rather than a fox or dog.
> 
> ...











						Hit and run mum did not stop because she was ‘petrified’
					

Cameron Grieve died in hospital a month after he was hit




					www.cornwalllive.com
				




Testified that she could only see 'two feet' in front in fog but drove at 40mph. All a bit of a shitshow.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2020)

Also, when people don't stop after accidents is usually because they're pissed.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 12, 2020)

mauvais said:


> Hit and run mum did not stop because she was ‘petrified’
> 
> 
> Cameron Grieve died in hospital a month after he was hit
> ...



A shitsnow indeed, but your link provides better detail, like the other driver saying visibility was only about 15m.



> She said she thought she’d hit an animal and was too frightened to get out and look because of the foggy and pitch black conditions.



The victim had been drinking into the early hours, which probably explains why he was in the road, a 60mph toad, in foggy and pitch black conditions.

With no evidence suggesting otherwise, it can only be put down as a sad accident.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 12, 2020)

mauvais said:


> Hit and run mum did not stop because she was ‘petrified’
> 
> 
> Cameron Grieve died in hospital a month after he was hit
> ...


And she lost her wing mirror and thought she hit a fox or badger?.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 12, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> With no evidence suggesting otherwise, it can only be put down as a sad accident.


It was an accident, leaving him to die wasn’t.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 12, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> It was an accident, leaving him to die wasn’t.



That implies he died at the scene, he didn't, he was making a recovery in hospital, he died a month later from a heart attack caused by an infection, not the injuries caused by the accident.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 12, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> That implies he died at the scene, he didn't, he was making a recovery in hospital, he died a month later from a heart attack caused by an infection, not the injuries caused by the accident.


He was there until someone found him in the morning. Maybe if she had stopped he would have recovered, but I guess she had to get calpol for her kid with a cold...

Not really sure why you’re defending her.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 12, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> He was there until someone found him in the morning. Maybe if she had stopped he would have recovered, but I guess she had to get calpol for her kid with a cold...
> 
> Not really sure why you’re defending her.



WTF?

The report says he left his drinking mates round 3am, and was hit 'around 4am', and time the driver that spotted him did so was 'just after 4am', so a matter of minutes. He died a month later from a heart attack caused by an infection he got in hospital, not from the injuries caused by the accident. 

Although there's no pavement, he shouldn't have been staggering along on a 60mph road in fog & darkest, he should have been on the grass verge, she only clipped him, and had no reason to to think she had hit a person.

I am all for better sentencing for drivers that have acted recklessly, and esp. if the recklessness results in serious injury or death, but that doesn't seem to the the case here - nothing suggests she was driving recklessly, and nothing suggests she directly caused his death.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 12, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> WTF?
> 
> The report says he left his drinking mates round 3am, and was hit 'around 4am', and time the driver that spotted him did so was 'just after 4am', so a matter of minutes. He died a month later from a heart attack caused by an infection he got in hospital, not from the injuries caused by the accident.
> 
> Although there's no pavement, he shouldn't have been staggering along on a 60mph road in fog & darkest, he should have been on the grass verge, she only clipped him, and had no reason to to think she had hit a person.


He wasn’t hit around 4am that’s when the driver found him and she didn’t just clip him she knocked her wing mirror off. She has a responsibility to drive within the conditions and to stop if there’s an accident.


cupid_stunt said:


> I am all for better sentencing for drivers that have acted recklessly, and esp. if the recklessness results in serious injury or death, but that doesn't seem to the the case here - nothing suggests she was driving recklessly, and nothing suggests she directly caused his death.


How can you knock your your wing mirror off, not stop and not be driving recklessly?. Get a grip.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 12, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> He wasn’t hit around 4am that’s when the driver found him...



Go back, read the report, and understand -



> When Cameron, Emma and his friend Dan Fielding *left at around 3am,*





> Charlotte Stott’s Volkswagen Golf *hit him near the Asda store at Penryn at around 4am *on Saturday, April 14, 2018.





> Motorist Nicholas Reeks noticed someone lying at the side of the A39 bypass near the Asda supermarket as he drove to work at *just after 4am.*



Can't be arsed with the rest of your post, because clearly you haven't read & engaged with the evidence available, and are acting like a fool for whatever reason.

ETA - one comment to that article is interesting...



> If the gentleman left Falmouth Marina to walk home to a houseboat at Islington Wharf in Penryn how did the collision happen near ASDA on the A39, which is probably over a mile from that route?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 12, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Can't be arsed with the rest of your post, because clearly you haven't read & engaged with the evidence available, and are acting like a fool for whatever reason.


You can’t, if your in an accident where your wing mirror is knocked off it’s not a badger ffs.
QUOTE="cupid_stunt, post: 16362521, member: 73721"]
ETA - one comment to that article is interesting...
[/QUOTE]You’ve been at this victim blaming stuff from the start, she ran into him and left him there, didn’t matter if he had too many.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 12, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Also, when people don't stop after accidents is usually because they're pissed.



Or uninsured, no tax, no mot, stolen car or simply panic and flee


----------



## mauvais (Jan 12, 2020)

We don't have all the facts, it's not worth trying to play detectives. For example the article describes a mirror casing at the scene. For what it's worth I once - on foot - bumped into a modern VW Polo parked on the pavement (one for the keying thread perhaps) and the mirror housing fell off that.

Lots of other mysteries in that story but we're missing loads of info. Possibly the courts and coroner were too, but they were best placed to figure it out. Sentencing is another matter. She got a suspended jail term FWIW.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 13, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> You can’t, if your in an accident where your wing mirror is knocked off it’s not a badger ffs.
> 
> You’ve been at this victim blaming stuff from the start, she ran into him and left him there, didn’t matter if he had too many.



As mauvais pointed out just above, the report says a mirror casing at the scene, not that the wing mirror was knocked off, these casings can come off easily, and in the circumstances here, you probably wouldn't notice at the time. She also said, "I thought it was an animal – a badger, fox or something", a fox can jump, so could hit the wing mirror, or you could hit an animal at bumper level & it could bounce up, knocking the mirror. There's noting in the details that makes what she says impossible, which is probably why she wasn't charged with something more serious, because of lack of evidence.  

Walking on a road, a 60mph one, in the dark, having been drinking, and especially when foggy is bloody dangerous - I know I've done it plenty of times having lived out in sticks, and would always step off the road & into the grass verge when a car was coming. I would even do that if I was wearing something fluorescent  & carrying a torch.

The Highway Code is very clear that when there is no pavement*,* you should keep to the right-hand side of the road so that you can see oncoming traffic, AND you should take extra care, pedestrians do have a duty of care to themselves. 



> Pedestrians are perfectly entitled to walk on country lanes and other roads which have no pavement however they have a duty to take reasonable care for their own safety.
> 
> In the UK, we drive on the left and the Highway Code recommends that pedestrians should keep to the right (facing oncoming traffic) but  cross over at right hand bends to the left so that the oncoming traffic retains maximum visibility. Also walking in single file and wearing visible (preferably high visibility and reflective)  clothing is recommended ( see Rule 2).
> 
> ...



This is not victim blaming, this is just a statement of fact, and is likely to have contributed to the reason why she wasn't charge with anything more serious.

Clearly she was wrong in not stopping & reporting it, but as someone else stopped just minutes later, doing that is unlikely to have changed the outcome, which was the sad death of the guy, not directly from injuries suffered, but from an a heart attack caused by an infection. caught in hospital, a month later. These facts are likely to be the reason behind the suspended sentence, if she had actually killed him, then that sentence would be highly questionable.

Both parties should have been taking more care, and both could have avoided this accident, and the eventual tragic outcome.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 13, 2020)

I'm not denying it  was an accident,  but if you hit someone with your wing mirror then you are driving carelessly, and if you leave the scene of an accident it's  just because you have something to hide. 

The fact she got a suspended sentence and was free to drive is because the laws regarding motorists are an arse.


----------



## HAL9000 (Jan 16, 2020)

> Two drivers have been sentenced for a crash which wrecked two sports cars worth a total of £250,000.
> 
> The Porsche and Ferrari collided at a roundabout in Sheffield in May 2018, writing off both vehicles.
> 
> ...





> Hartley fled from the scene, South Yorkshire Police said.  He later turned himself into the police, but said the crash had taken place because his brakes had failed.
> 
> Police said extensive checks found no damage to the vehicle's brakes, and investigators also discovered that the Ferrari's airbags had deployed with the car travelling at 68mph (109kph).











						Sheffield supercar crash: Two drivers sentenced
					

The Porsche and Ferrari collided on a roundabout in Sheffield in May 2018, police say.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 16, 2020)

Carl Hartley huh? As in scion of Tom Hartley, luxury car dealer of Derbyshire...brakes failed, wouldn’t buy from them then...


----------



## dervish (Jan 17, 2020)

Don't really understand why the one that fled the scene got a smaller sentence??


----------



## dervish (Jan 17, 2020)

This guy is both a hero and an idiot.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 17, 2020)

Missed a trick there, when he told them to calm down should have added, "You need to watch your blood pressure, know any doctors?"


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 17, 2020)

Is there anything actually illegal about driving on the wrong side of the road?  Assuming you've not crossed a solid white line or there is something coming in that direction?


----------



## hash tag (Jan 17, 2020)

That first clip; I would have thought the other cyclists would have been a little supportive.
I remember a woman turning on to Albert Bridge from Embankment a few months ago. It was quite a tight left turn going straight through width restrictions. She panicked and went through the exit side of the bridge instead


----------



## hash tag (Jan 17, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Is there anything actually illegal about driving on the wrong side of the road?  Assuming you've not crossed a solid white line or there is something coming in that direction?


The white line down the centre of the road marks the middle of the road. Like you say, don't cross it if it is a solid double line or  single solid line if its against you.
The clips look like the drivers ignored directional signs.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 17, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Is there anything actually illegal about driving on the wrong side of the road?  Assuming you've not crossed a solid white line or there is something coming in that direction?




This sign says Get In Lane



AFAIK it is not an offence in itself to ignore it, however ignoring it to go over a pedestrian crossing on the wrong side of the road opens you up to all sorts of ancillary offences. Then there's the using the Merc as a weapon...


----------



## hash tag (Jan 17, 2020)

^^^ thats impressive, I couldnt see it^^^ As the sign is circular it's an instruction.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

dervish said:


> This guy is both a hero and an idiot.



Terrible driving, but the wannabe cop cyclist is going to annoy the wrong person one day, and, if he's lucky, get away with a good kicking.


----------



## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Terrible driving, but the wannabe cop cyclist is going to annoy the wrong person one day, and, if he's lucky, get away with a good kicking.



This - something I always remember after the event when I've had a righteous rant at someone driving like an idiot and endangering me.


Particularity enjoyed the way they carefully  obscured the Number plate and then, at end of the video he called it out in phonetic alphabet anyway


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> This - something I always remember after the event when I've had a righteous rant at someone driving like an idiot and endangering me.


The cyclist had no idea who he was stopping or why they were on the wrong side of the road. The only thing he knew for certain is that the person he stopped was on the wrong side of the road and was there for a reason. In most cases the reason will be that the driver is a cunt, and most likely an impatient angry cunt in a  hurry, so riding out in front of them and impeding them further, with his sanctimonious robocop finger wagging, is most likely going to anger the motorist even further, and anyone who thinks that a push bike is a match for a 2 ton car is sadly deluded, and I'm surprised we haven't already seen a video of someone running over him and his bike. But there's a chance that the next person he stops has a genuine reason to be in a hurry and on the wrong side of the road. Maybe an off-duty cop saw someone getting robbed up the road. Maybe someone in the car is having a heart attack and needs to get to the hospital. How would anyone feel if a family member was having a heart attack in their car, and this 'hero' rode out in front of them on his chariot of righteousness?  Maybe the cyclist is as much of a cunt as the cunts he's practicing his pro bono policing on.


----------



## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

bike and car defenders in agreement shocker !!

This thread is gonna get a whole lot less interesting at this rate


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> bike and car defenders in agreement shocker !!
> 
> This thread is gonna get a whole lot less interesting at this rate




Did anybody notice this?







Probably not, because it's par for the course, but It seems robocunt's enforcement of rules doesn't extend to cyclists, as this one was waved on through.


----------



## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

All participants on the videos are equally loathsome

Have just clocked that there are two videos. Does the person filming camp out on that corner all day for fun?

I hate to say it, but it would not be surprising if one day he is found with a large tyre track across his chest


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 17, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> The cyclist had no idea who he was stopping or why they were on the wrong side of the road.


And as we've seen, it can go badly wrong:



Obviously out of order from the puncher but the cyclist totally deserved that and it was satisfying to watch.

I'm not sure why so many cyclists feel the need to do this. We've also had a few on here complaining that drivers have told them to get fucked when they tried to put on the traffic cop hat. Mind your own fucking business!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 17, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Did anybody notice this?



Good point, well made.


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## dervish (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> All participants on the videos are equally loathsome
> 
> Have just clocked that there are two videos. Does the person filming camp out on that corner all day for fun?
> 
> I hate to say it, but it would not be surprising if one day he is found with a large tyre track across his chest



Had a look at a couple of his other videos, he spends a lot of time riding around in Regents park videoing drivers on their phones, he has a pretty good conviction rate to be fair. I think he's seen a lot of people cutting that corner and has just got fed up with it.


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## hash tag (Jan 17, 2020)

The problem with cyclists.......
the law doesn't apply to them

Yet they are always on hand to point out the error of others ways.

Wasn't there a thread about the trouble with cyclists


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

*spymaster:* Obviously out of order from the puncher but the cyclist totally asked for that. 

*hash tag: *The problem with cyclists.......
the law doesn't apply to them 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree with the above statements
Camping out with a view to filming miscreants and then being holier then thou with them is (IMHO) unproductive.

Telling someone they have stopped all over the ASL in a pinch point in the road - then getting punched for it (after an aggressive bit of acceleration from the Audi) seems a disproportionate reward. I hope the driver got prosecuted for that

I believe the correct statement to be: 
The problem with *many road users *......
the law doesn't apply to them


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## Spymaster (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> Telling someone they have stopped all over the ASL in a pinch point in the road - then getting punched for it (after an aggressive bit of acceleration from the Audi) seems a disproportionate reward.


That's not what happened though and it was a passenger who punched him not the driver. If the cyclist had simply told the driver off for encroaching on the ASL you may have a small point but this also happened before ASL's were legally enforceable, iirc.

What has happened here is that the cyclist has chased down the car to the next set of lights, aggressively banged on the window and delivered a foul mouthed tirade. Wrong car. Tough shit.


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## hash tag (Jan 17, 2020)

I suspect that cyclists are more sanctimonious than drivers. They certainly shout louder at other miscreants and their own rights and often see themselves above the law.
I think drivers tend to shrug their shoulders more and move on.


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

I didn't study it closely enough to get those points, and didn't reference the time stamp of the video to extant ASL legislation but....

I can understand chasing after someone who had driven off like a cunt in that manner after being asked / told to respect the ASL. and I can understand the urge to bang on the window and shout. I'm sure many others can as well. 
SO to revise my statement. I hope the passenger got done for ABH / GBH whatever. and I hope the driver got at least a talking to for dangerous driving.

but then I accept that today I am being a cyclist, so may perspective is potentially warped.  However, once I get home from work I need to get into my 3L v6 penis replacement and drive down to Croydon - so will then be able to see the other side of the debate


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I suspect that cyclists are more sanctimonious than drivers. They certainly shout louder at other miscreants and their own rights and often see themselves above the law.
> I think drivers tend to shrug their shoulders more and move on.



More to lose when it all goes south may have something to do with it 

I've yet to meet a driver (me included) who merely shrugs if someone so much as touches their car.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 17, 2020)

Tbh, if the cops actually gave a shit about the rules of the road then drivers wouldn't break the law and there would be no need for cyclists to take it into their own hands.


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

And yes many / most people see themselves as above the law, on the road and elsewhere. (Cyclist or not) The list includes, but is not limited to:
Phone whilst driving
Stopping in ASL
Not stopping at red lights
Underage drinking
Illegal recreationals
illegal sexual activity
ripping music and videos
fare dodging

Name me anyone on Urban, and in real life that can't tick at least one of those boxes? I think have done the lot at some point in my life


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## hash tag (Jan 17, 2020)

Not enough cops, too many law breakers, too many other things to worry about.
Too little respect for the law in this country.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 17, 2020)

The only people bothered about being videoed are those who drive like cunts themselves.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> And yes many / most people see themselves as above the law, on the road and elsewhere. (Cyclist or not) The list includes, but is not limited to:
> Phone whilst driving
> Stopping in ASL
> Not stopping at red lights
> ...


There's a difference between ripping music and running a red, though, isn't there?..


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

Dunno. For my sins I have to take my son to see Millwall.
Football "fans" seem to object to having the opposing fans video them on their phones. It is some sort of "thing" and seems to raise the tension a touch. .I have no idea if football fans drive like cunts


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

There's running reds and running reds
there's ripping music and ripping music


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## Spymaster (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> I can understand the urge to bang on the window and shout. I'm sure many others can as well.


Resist the urge. You are not policemen and if you bang on enough cars, sooner or later you're going to get your lights punched out.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 17, 2020)

I just cycle in front of them and set off slowly.


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

I tend not to run reds (as it takes away my moral high ground  ) - but have been known to go through a red pededstrian crossing late at night with no foot or vehicular activity nearby. It's not the same as cycling / driving across Oxford St / Regent St against a red

I have ripped music. It isn't the same as then making multiple copies and selling them


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> I just cycle in front of them and set off slowly.




Yep I've done it too. Though it always has the risk, as Spy intimates, of you ending up smeared over someone's bonnet


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> Telling someone they have stopped all over the ASL in a pinch point in the road - then getting punched for it (after an aggressive bit of acceleration from the Audi) seems a disproportionate reward. I hope the driver got prosecuted for that



All the cyclists had arrived, the Audi had stopped behind the ASL, then as the time to go approached the Audi manoeuvred in to a position to ensure a clean getaway allowing clear passage for the car and the cycles. Text-book stuff. Yon Lycra-hero takes the cream puff and gets his handed to him for his trouble <windordavisohdearphoto>


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> I can understand chasing after someone who had driven off like a cunt in that manner




That is where road rage comes from. Your attitude to road-craft needs addressing.


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

No one is perfect. Few seem to accept that fact

ETA - I didn't say that I had done it (I haven't) - just that I understand it


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

The common binary attitude between car and bike user is depressing and not necessary


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> No one is perfect.


 I am, as evidenced by my driving a large, powerful Audi 






			
				nick said:
			
		

> Few seem to accept that fact


 Jealously from those with fewer than 300bhp under their right foot.




			
				nick said:
			
		

> ETA - I didn't say that I had done it (I haven't) - just that I understand it




Same thing, tbf.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> The common binary attitude between car and bike user is depressing and not necessary



I cycle, and have been hospitalised in London due to the ignorant bollocks of a truck driver. 

I drive with consideration. I cycle as I drive. I find a South African coming to the UK to lurk in bushes in order to get medieval on motorists who ignore an advisory sign worthy of locking up. People such as him are clearly not getting up in the morning with the aim of increasing civilised discord in society.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 17, 2020)

As a cyclist you notice bad driving a lot more, because you’re more easily put in danger than if you’re in a car. You also have to put up with the “bloody cyclists” thing even though you see motorists breaking the law every day, and the cops turning a blind eye, so that's where the attitude comes from.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> Have just clocked that there are two videos. Does the person filming camp out on that corner all day for fun?



That's exactly what he does. He thinks he's a cop, and that it's his job to police road users who aren't using the roads to his satisfaction... unless you're a fellow biker, in which case, do as you please.



sleaterkinney said:


> The only people bothered about being videoed are those who drive like cunts themselves.



We should implement a system where if you drive (or ride) like a cunt, anyone who catches you at it can give you a smack in the mouth, but once the first punch is thrown, all bets are off, and the punchee can fight back. The same system would allow the punching of anybody found to be impersonating a police officer. This way, fewer people would drive/ride like cunts and fewer cyclists would act like bellends. The system would also allow the clothes line technique to be used on any cyclist jumping a red light.
Obviously, It's a brave new plan, but it's only a draft, which will need a little more thought and refining, but you get the idea.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> All the cyclists had arrived, the Audi had stopped behind the ASL, then as the time to go approached the Audi manoeuvred in to a position to ensure a clean getaway allowing clear passage for the car and the cycles. Text-book stuff. Yon Lycra-hero takes the cream puff and gets his handed to him for his trouble <windordavisohdearphoto>


This^^^
The Audi driver saw the lights were about to change, checked his mirrors, made room on his left for any bike rider that may wish to avail of the ASL, and drove to the front of the queue, making the road safer for everyone on it. Then, after getting attacked by an angry cyclist for being a good driver, he fears for his life and decides to diffuse the situation by accelerating away from it, only to be chased to the next set of lights by the angry cyclist, who attacks him again, but this time somebody decided enough was enough, and that he wasn't going to allow someone with road (and possibly 'roid?) rage to continue to attack an innocent civilian, so he sparkled the angry cunt. Bravo that man. A true hero!


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 17, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> As a cyclist you notice bad driving a lot more, because you’re more easily put in danger than if you’re in a car. You also have to put up with the “bloody cyclists” thing even though you see motorists breaking the law every day, and the cops turning a blind eye, so that's where the attitude comes from.



I see both motorists and cyclists breaking the law with impunity all time. I don’t get riled, I just progress in a manner that is safe for me and my passengers, should I have any, and for other road users. Plus I instruct my kids to know that a huge number of other road users are cunts and to mind how they go.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, and as a biker and Range Rover hater, I'm the perfect person to comment.

This is a similar example to the one in the video above, where cunts on two wheels attack someone on 4 wheels, and the inevitable ensues.

A bunch of bikers decided to intimidate a Range Rover driver, brake checking him until they came to a complete stop, so the Range Rover driver, fearing for his and his family's life, (his wife and 2 year old child were in the car), rode over a bike or two in an attempt to escape the situation, and knocked a rider to the floor, breaking his legs.. The rest of the bike riders chased the Range Rover driver, pulled him out of the car and savagely beat him in front of his wife and 2 year old child.



11 bikers were indicted, including a cop. No charges were brought against the RR driver.









						11 Motorcyclists Are Indicted in Assault on an S.U.V. Driver (Published 2013)
					

The motorcyclists have been indicted in connection with the assault on a man who was driving a Range Rover with his wife and infant son on the Henry Hudson Parkway in September.




					www.nytimes.com
				




This is so similar to the video above. Obviously fewer bikes but when someone is screaming at you through your window, it must be very intimidating, and who knows what might have happened, had it not been for the brave passenger in the Audi.


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## nick (Jan 17, 2020)

I think we will agree to differ on the level of heroism of the driver of the white Audi.

I used to drive an S6 - it was great for transporting bikes.  That makes me feel conflicted


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

nick said:


> I think we will agree to differ on the level of heroism of the driver of the white Audi.
> 
> I used to drive an S6 - it was great for transporting bikes.  That makes me feel conflicted


'As a biker' (  ), I'm the first to call out bad driving, but the Audi driver did nothing wrong. He went out of his way to make the road safer for all of its users, but because the cyclist wasn't versed in proper and safe road use, he took it upon himself to attack someone whose only crime was 'thinking of other road users'. It's a classic case for compulsory training and testing for all road users, and compulsory registration of bicycles, so cyclists who choose to partake of road rage can be tracked and prosecuted.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 17, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, and as a biker and Range Rover hater, I'm the perfect person to comment.
> 
> This is a similar example to the one in the video above, where cunts on two wheels attack someone on 4 wheels, and the inevitable ensues.
> 
> ...




Of course never been a fan of the NRA, but if that Range Rover had Texas plates I would imagine your NY biker heroes may have held back a tad. What a fucking world.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Of course never been a fan of the NRA, but if that Range Rover had Texas plates I would imagine your NY biker heroes may have held back a tad. What a fucking world.


They're not my heroes. I don't think the RR driver took enough of them out. My point is/was that arguing with someone on 4 wheels, when you're on 2 wheels, will only ever end badly for the person on two wheels. I don't condone what the bikers did. Quite the opposite. If I was driving the RR, I'd have put it in reverse, to make sure my attackers couldn't follow me, and I'd have run over every single one of them, until I knew my wife and child were safe, and if I happened to be a gun toting Texan, I'd have emptied multiple clips into those bikers, because my life is worth much more than their lives.

Road rage is a terrible affliction, but, as we've seen above, it doesn't only affect people on 4 wheels, it also affects those on 2 wheels, whether powered by an IC engine or otherwise, and it's quite clear, to anyone who wants to face facts, that the more vulnerable you feel as a road user, the more likely you are to partake of road rage, with cyclists at the top of the rage tree.


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## T & P (Jan 17, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> As a cyclist you notice bad driving a lot more, because you’re more easily put in danger than if you’re in a car. You also have to put up with the “bloody cyclists” thing even though you see motorists breaking the law every day, and the cops turning a blind eye, so that's where the attitude comes from.


 There is massive tribalism in this country when it comes to different type of road users compared with the vibe I’ve got in various European cities with a heavy- often much heavier- cyclist presence.

I was in Berlin recently and car drivers seem on the whole to be far more cautious and considerate around cyclists than in here. But equally, most cyclists obeyed traffic laws religiously. Almost everyone (90% or more  I reckon) stopped and waited at red traffic lights even if there were no peds crossing. In London you’d be happy to see 25% compliance in the same circumstances. Even pedestrians wait for the green man with completely empty roads.

Having said that, I find such rigid approach annoying as fuck so ideally we could adopt the attitude and consideration shown by our Continental neighbours without being so absurdly fastidious as to ALWAYS wait for the light to change on a completely empty road when it is virtually 100% safe to cross the road at that time. Jaywalking is one of the few instances when often Germans tut at tourists who don’t wait for the green man


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

T & P said:


> There is massive tribalism in this country when it comes to different type of road users compared with the vibe I’ve got in various European cities with a heavy- often much heavier- cyclist presence.
> 
> I was in Berlin recently and car drivers seem on the whole to be far more cautious and considerate around cyclists than in here. But equally, most cyclists obeyed traffic laws religiously. Almost everyone (90% or more  I reckon) stopped and waited at red traffic lights even if there were no peds crossing. In London you’d be happy to see 25% compliance in the same circumstances. Even pedestrians wait for the green man with completely empty roads.
> 
> Having said that, I find such rigid approach annoying as fuck so ideally we could adopt the attitude and consideration shown by our Continental neighbours without being so absurdly fastidious as to ALWAYS wait for the light to change on a completely empty road when it is virtually 100% safe to cross the road at that time. Jaywalking is one of the few instances when often Germans tut at tourists who don’t wait for the green man


I don't agree. I think that if a light is red, you should stop at it until it turns green. Unfortunately, ~85% of cyclists don't agree with me.


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## T & P (Jan 17, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> I don't agree. I think that if a light is red, you should stop at it until it turns green. Unfortunately, ~85% of cyclists don't agree with me.


 I actually do it myself because I also drive and ride motorcycles, and expect others to behave in the same way regardless of their mode of transport. In fact I reckon much of the hostility in this country arises from blatant disregard for the law or discourteous behaviour displayed by various kinds of road users (cars going too fast and close to cyclists, cyclists jumping red lights en masse, pedestrians ignoring red lights or neglecting to look before crossing any given stretch of road, and so on.
.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 17, 2020)

T & P said:


> I actually do it myself because I also drive and ride motorcycles, and expect others to behave in the same way regardless of their mode of transport. In fact I reckon much of the hostility in this country arises from blatant disregard for the law or discourteous behaviour displayed by various kinds of road users (cars going too fast and close to cyclists, cyclists jumping red lights en masse, pedestrians ignoring red lights or neglecting to look before crossing any given stretch of road, and so on.
> .


What I find fucking amazing, and amusing, is that I live somewhere with literally ZERO traffic lights. I don't mean it has just a few, I mean there are ZERO traffic lights within at least a 25 mile radius of where I live... yet we still, somehow, manage to survive. We have plenty of roundabouts, and a little common sense, and that seems to be enough to prevent WWIII, and camera-wielding robocunt types.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> There is massive tribalism in this country when it comes to different type of road users compared with the vibe I’ve got in various European cities with a heavy- often much heavier- cyclist presence.
> 
> I was in Berlin recently and car drivers seem on the whole to be far more cautious and considerate around cyclists than in here. But equally, most cyclists obeyed traffic laws religiously. Almost everyone (90% or more  I reckon) stopped and waited at red traffic lights even if there were no peds crossing. In London you’d be happy to see 25% compliance in the same circumstances. Even pedestrians wait for the green man with completely empty roads.
> 
> Having said that, I find such rigid approach annoying as fuck so ideally we could adopt the attitude and consideration shown by our Continental neighbours without being so absurdly fastidious as to ALWAYS wait for the light to change on a completely empty road when it is virtually 100% safe to cross the road at that time. Jaywalking is one of the few instances when often Germans tut at tourists who don’t wait for the green man



What you don’t see much of is people cycling to work dressed up as if taking part in the Tour de France. That seems to be very much a London thing and instils a mentality that they must get there as quickly as possible, therefore any hindrance must be met with vengeance.


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## T & P (Jan 18, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> What you don’t see much of is people cycling to work dressed up as if taking part in the Tour de France. That seems to be very much a London thing and instils a mentality that they must get there as quickly as possible, therefore any hindrance must be met with vengeance.


Yes, good point. In fact I don't recall seeing a single person in Lycra in Berlin. And the overwhelming majority of bicycles were utilitarian, recrational style ones rather than four-figure carbon fibre racers.


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## hash tag (Jan 18, 2020)

nick said:


> Dunno. For my sins I have to take my son to see Millwall.
> Football "fans" seem to object to having the opposing fans video them on their phones. It is some sort of "thing" and seems to raise the tension a touch. .I have no idea if football fans drive like cunts


have to? Yeh, right


Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I see both motorists and cyclists breaking the law with impunity all time. I don’t get riled, I just progress in a manner that is safe for me and my passengers, should I have any, and for other road users. Plus I instruct my kids to know that a huge number of other road users are cunts and to mind how they go.


What about other road users, like pedestrians?


----------



## hash tag (Jan 18, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> What you don’t see much of is people cycling to work dressed up as if taking part in the Tour de France. That seems to be very much a London thing and instils a mentality that they must get there as quickly as possible, therefore any hindrance must be met with vengeance.


Lycra louts tend to be experienced road users, had an awareness of what's around them and an appreciation of the law unlike idiots who wobble around on hire bikes, are totally unaware of anything or anyone around them and are totally unpredictable.


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## Spymaster (Jan 18, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Lycra louts tend to be experienced road users, had an awareness of what's around them and an appreciation of the law ...


Nope; they're just a different type of cunt. These are the ones who'll crash through red lights, charge between lines of traffic, and swerve in front or behind peds on crossings because they can't possibly lose any speed.


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## Winot (Jan 18, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> What you don’t see much of is people cycling to work dressed up as if taking part in the Tour de France. That seems to be very much a London thing and instils a mentality that they must get there as quickly as possible, therefore any hindrance must be met with vengeance.





T & P said:


> Yes, good point. In fact I don't recall seeing a single person in Lycra in Berlin. And the overwhelming majority of bicycles were utilitarian, recrational style ones rather than four-figure carbon fibre racers.



As a (sometimes Lycra-clad) commuter cyclist of 35 years, I would love it if the UK culture was changed so that ‘ordinary’ people cycled. 

For that to happen requires a positive commitment to change from political leaders including a commitment to incorporate safe cycling infrastructure into every new road scheme. 

Instead what we have in the UK is a massive road building programme with no thought for cycling; indeed we are going backwards with cycle infrastructure being removed in some places. Even in London look at the kick back there has been to the few integrated cycle highways. Look at the row about closing off the Outer Circle in Regent’s Park to cars.  Look at what is happening in the Olympic Park. 

For anyone who wants ordinary people to feel safe to cycle, please support cycle infrastructure generally. Please recognise that it means that motor vehicles need to take a lower priority. And please hold back from the easy attacks on Lycra warriors - we are ordinary people too who just want to be able to cycle safely.


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## Spymaster (Jan 18, 2020)

Winot said:


> - we are ordinary people too who just want to be able to cycle safely.


No you’re not. You’re arseholes.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> No you’re not. You’re arseholes.


Nobody needs to look like they're riding in the Tour de France unless they're actually riding in the Tour de France. The only reasons to wear lycra on a bike are to pretend you're in a bike race and ride like you are, and to show your dick and balls to like-minded cyclists. Normal people don't want to see either of those things. You rarely see women at it. It's almost always men. I wonder why that is.


----------



## nick (Jan 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> No you’re not. You’re arseholes.



You're better than that Spy.....


----------



## nick (Jan 18, 2020)

Tight fitting clothes - especially round the leg area, avoid things getting caught in the mechanicals.

Anyway - I've invested enough in my beergut over the years that I want to show it off to all and sundry.


----------



## editor (Jan 18, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Nobody needs to look like they're riding in the Tour de France unless they're actually riding in the Tour de France. The only reasons to wear lycra on a bike are to pretend you're in a bike race and ride like you are, and to show your dick and balls to like-minded cyclists. Normal people don't want to see either of those things. You rarely see women at it. It's almost always men. I wonder why that is.


When you don't know what you're talking about, it's considered wise to keep your clueless trap shut. Plenty of women wear proper cycling gear, and there's plenty of reasons why people may choose to wear appropriate clothing on their commute to work, or whatever.


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## Spymaster (Jan 18, 2020)

nick said:


> You're better than that Spy.....


Nah. Lycra outside of sports use is for total wankers. It's the cycling equivalent of go faster stripes and aftermarket spoilers.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Nah. Lycra outside of sports use is for total wankers. It's the cycling equivalent of go faster stripes and aftermarket spoilers.


It's the equivalent of a car driver wearing a F1 Nomex racing suit to go to the shops. I can't think of anything more cringeworthy.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 18, 2020)

editor said:


> When you don't know what you're talking about, it's considered wise to keep your clueless trap shut. Plenty of women wear proper cycling gear, and there's plenty of reasons why people may choose to wear appropriate clothing on their commute to work, or whatever.



Utter shite.

Stand on the Embankment at 0830 and you will see 100 mamils for every woman who chose to dress the same.
Check the videos with the wanna-be filth, how many of the Lycra adorned velocipedists were female? None, that’s how many. It’s wanky as fuck. It affects the way they view themselves and creates discord on the streets.

I like driving fast, powerful cars. I don’t don a fireproof suit and crash helmet for my commute tho.


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## Spymaster (Jan 18, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Utter shite.


Indeed.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 18, 2020)

editor said:


> When you don't know what you're talking about, it's considered wise to keep your clueless trap shut. Plenty of women wear proper cycling gear, and there's plenty of reasons why people may choose to wear appropriate clothing on their commute to work, or whatever.



And double utter shite; Holland and Denmark, the two European countries that are most cycle friendly, you never see anyone in Lycra commuting. Never. Appropriate clothing for the commute is your work clothes. Dutch and Danish commuters don’t need to change clothes and shower when they get to work as they cycle at a reasonable pace, exerting  themselves no more than others who walk to work. Unlike these Bradly Wiggins’s you see whizzing around all over town.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 18, 2020)

Clueless traps anyone?


----------



## blairsh (Jan 18, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Unlike these Bradly Wiggins’s you see whizzing around all over town.


That's the problem with your Bradley Wiggins's, always whizzing their Wiggins's tits off.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 18, 2020)

editor said:


> When you don't know what you're talking about, it's considered wise to keep your clueless trap shut. Plenty of women wear proper cycling gear, and there's plenty of reasons why people may choose to wear appropriate clothing on their commute to work, or whatever.


Maybe you should take your own advice, then.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 18, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> And double utter shite; Holland and Denmark, the two European countries that are most cycle friendly, you never see anyone in Lycra commuting. Never.



Spot the MAMIL. 
Also, notice how they're pretty much all riding sensible bikes. Not a single one of them thinks they're in the Tour de France.

Holland







Denmark


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## Spymaster (Jan 18, 2020)

London. Cycle wanker capital of Europe.


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## mauvais (Jan 18, 2020)

The Dutch have different words for what we would think of as utility bike cyclists vs. road bike cyclists: fietser and wielrenner, respectively. So when you look at Dutch language stuff, 'cyclist' translates to the former. Lycra exists.

But it's all about culture and infrastructure and normalisation too.

I've never worn lycra. I'm possibly even further outside the norm though, as if I ride to work, I ride a mountain bike in mountain bike kit and baggy shorts.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 18, 2020)

mauvais said:


> The Dutch have different words for what we would think of as utility bike cyclists vs. road bike cyclists: fietser and wielrenner, respectively.


*wielrenner* m (_plural_ *wielrenners*, _diminutive_ *wielrennertje* n, _feminine_ *wielrenster*)

a sports or fitness cyclist, *someone who races bicycles, as opposed to a person riding a bike for any other purpose.*
There's nothing wrong with wearing Lycra if you're racing. Just as there's nothing wrong with wearing a Nomex racing suit if you're driving a Formula 1 car at Silverstone, but neither is fitting attire for a daily commute to work.


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## Proper Tidy (Jan 18, 2020)

Try cycling without a padded arse, impossible. Absolute arse pain. Unless you are riding a sit up and beg but that's the cycle equivalent of a nissan micra. So then it's just a case of do you wear lycra cycling shorts with normal shorts over top, or just the lycra. I never got past the lycra shorts with normal shorts over top but really there is no point so


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Try cycling without a padded arse, impossible. Absolute arse pain.


I used to cycle 16 miles to work every day when I left school, and 16 miles home, and the odd 65 mile ride to Blackpool on the weekends. I don't recall it ever being that bad.


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## Proper Tidy (Jan 18, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> I used to cycle 16 miles to work every day when I left school, and 16 miles home, and the odd 65 mile ride to Blackpool on the weekends. I don't recall it ever being that bad.



It is though. I cycled a fuckload as a kid/teenager in just jeans and that, had a decade odd off, took up cycling again, even with padded shorts after an hour or so it was hurting, without it was fucking agony. Also tbh 32 miles cycling isn't really very much


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## editor (Jan 18, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Spot the MAMIL.
> Also, notice how they're pretty much all riding sensible bikes. Not a single one of them thinks they're in the Tour de France.
> 
> Holland
> ...


And here's pics of London cyclists, failing miserably to live up to your stupid, ignorant, cyclist-hating stereotype





















Of course, in many Europeans countries, cyclists are given priority and not at the mercy of overheating, cyclist-loating, polluting gammons at the wheel.


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## mauvais (Jan 18, 2020)

When I was properly fit and rode 20 miles a day I never needed padding. Once I became more casual I did. Definitely do now.


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## hash tag (Jan 18, 2020)

Winot said:


> As a (sometimes Lycra-clad) commuter cyclist of 35 years, I would love it if the UK culture was changed so that ‘ordinary’ people cycled.
> 
> For that to happen requires a positive commitment to change from political leaders including a commitment to incorporate safe cycling infrastructure into every new road scheme.
> 
> ...


You clearly haven't been to London. Outside my door ten's of millions have been spent on a single cycle route. The majority of people that now ride bikes are not "cyclists" but people who ride bikes.
i used to commute 50 + miles a day a got my average speed up to 20+ mph. I used to wear baggy cycling shorts which were lined with seam free padding, though I often wore full Lycra...its the seams that can get you.


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## Proper Tidy (Jan 18, 2020)

hash tag said:


> You clearly haven't been to London. Outside my door ten's of millions have been spent on a single cycle route. The majority of people that now ride bikes are not "cyclists" but people who ride bikes.
> i used to commute 50 + miles a day a got my average speed up to 20+ mph. I used to wear baggy cycling shorts which were lined with seam free padding, though I often wore full Lycra...its the seams that can get you.


I tried the baggy cycling shorts, found them worse than no padding, reverted to tight lycra with baggy shorts over top


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## Winot (Jan 18, 2020)

hash tag said:


> You clearly haven't been to London. Outside my door ten's of millions have been spent on a single cycle route. The majority of people that now ride bikes are not "cyclists" but people who ride bikes.
> i used to commute 50 + miles a day a got my average speed up to 20+ mph. I used to wear baggy cycling shorts which were lined with seam free padding, though I often wore full Lycra...its the seams that can get you.



Erm... I live there...

What’s been done in London is a good start but protected cycle routes are about 2% of the capital’s roads iirc.


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## hash tag (Jan 18, 2020)

Perhaps the greatest thing that would help is a change in mentality amongst all road users with more respect for each other. If that did happen, and I doubt it will, there wouldn't be a need for cycle facilities


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Try cycling without a padded arse, impossible. Absolute arse pain. Unless you are riding a sit up and beg but that's the cycle equivalent of a nissan micra. So then it's just a case of do you wear lycra cycling shorts with normal shorts over top, or just the lycra. I never got past the lycra shorts with normal shorts over top but really there is no point so



What’s the issue with Nissan Micras?

And buy a decent saddle, or change your diet to sort out your Chalfonts.


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## hash tag (Jan 19, 2020)

Saddle sores can be an issue even for hardened pro riders. Good chamois will help prevent this How to Diagnose, Treat, and Avoid Saddle Sores


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 19, 2020)

If the roads/traffic were more cyclist friendly then we would see more variety of cyclists, but many people don't fancy dealing with frustrated middle managers trying to shore up their egos.


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## Proper Tidy (Jan 19, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> What’s the issue with Nissan Micras?



Dunno, don't you drive an audi


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Dunno, don't you drive an audi



Yeah, and when we see the Micras in the far left lane they look nice enough...


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 19, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> frustrated middle managers trying to shore up their egos.


Do you reckon that's why they spend thousands on silly looking bikes? I always assumed it was a mid-life crisis thing but you may well be right.


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## hash tag (Jan 19, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah, and when we see the Micras in the far left lane they look nice enough...


You can't knock a Micra. Mrs ts was nearly 20 when she gave her away. No repairs ever necessary, his servicing and she never missed a beat. The Micra is still going strong.

"silly bikes".. Motorbikes or pedal bikes?


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 19, 2020)

hash tag said:


> "silly bikes".. Motorbikes or pedal bikes?


Those carbon ones that make it look like you're always riding downhill.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 19, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Do you reckon that's why they spend thousands on silly looking bikes? I always assumed it was a mid-life crisis thing but you may well be right.


No, that's motorists I'm talking about.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 19, 2020)

This thread is about shit drivers, there are another couple of threads in the forum for Clarksons to have their bantz.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 19, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> This thread is about shit drivers, there are another couple of threads in the forum for Clarksons to have their bantz.


It's about driving standards for all road users. Good and bad, including cyclists.


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## Spymaster (Jan 19, 2020)

This vid pretty much sums up London cyclists. Check out the dickhead at 0.35 secs. Absolutely typical though:


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> This vid pretty much sums up London cyclists. Check out the dickhead at 0.35 secs. Absolutely typical though:



He could easily have killed that guy crossing the road. Cunts like him should have their bike confiscated and crushed, but then 90% of London cyclists would be in tears.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 19, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> It's about driving standards for all road users. Good and bad, including cyclists.


You don't drive a bicycle ffs.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 19, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> You don't drive a bicycle ffs.


You're right, I don't. But I do ride a motorbike and I drive a car occasionally.


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## Spymaster (Jan 19, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> He could easily have killed that guy crossing the road. Cunts like him should have their bike confiscated and crushed ...


Half the time when you see that they shout abuse at the ped too.


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## nick (Jan 19, 2020)

Yep there is some atrocious riding in that video - and some not so dangerous.  Also a few people on bikes waiting at the lights - which seems strange is  a video concentrating on Red Light Jumpers.
Agree the one almost taking out a pedestrian should feel the full force of the law. I don't think he is typical of all cyclists though 

I still think that these days (in London commutes, in my anecdotal experience) the vast majority, say 80-90% of people on bikes stop at lights .   The ones that don't give us all a bad image and encourage the same kind of bell- end attitude from car users that seems to have infected this thread.

It actually feels to have got a bit more law abiding these days - perhaps all of the stupider miscreants have now become entrants for the Darwin awards?


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Half the time when you see that they shout abuse at the ped too.


Yeah, I've seen it. Cunts like that are never in the wrong. If that cunt was posting on here, he'd be telling everyone what a great rider he is, and that he rarely sees people jumping red lights


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## Spymaster (Jan 19, 2020)

nick said:


> It actually feels to have got a bit more law abiding these days -


You think? I haven't noticed any difference. I certainly think the number driving with no, or crap, lights has increased.


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## Artaxerxes (Jan 20, 2020)

Are headlights getting brighter or are there just more people putting fog lights on full whack for no reason?


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## T & P (Jan 20, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Are headlights getting brighter or are there just more people putting fog lights on full whack for no reason?


They are getting brighter, sometimes far too much so. There have been various stories and reports about the issue.

The worst offending headlamps are most invariably always fitted as standard on wanker high end cars nowadays.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Are headlights getting brighter or are there just more people putting fog lights on full whack for no reason?


Headlights are getting brighter. Gone are the days of the 7" Lucas sealed beam. It's all HID and LED now.


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## IC3D (Jan 20, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Are headlights getting brighter or are there just more people putting fog lights on full whack for no reason?


They are and its annoying esp on Rangerovers.
I regulary drive through Norfolk and shout this at people. Must get some driving gloves.


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## Proper Tidy (Jan 20, 2020)

I've got those auto lights on my car now and they seem to be on pretty much all the time, in light where I would never have stuck lights on when it was manual in my old cars. I know I can turn them off but find the auto thing handy cos I used to be terrible for forgetting for a few minutes pulling out of car parks and that.


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## IC3D (Jan 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> This vid pretty much sums up London cyclists. Check out the dickhead at 0.35 secs. Absolutely typical though:



Id rather ride a bike with two flat tires home than step into that cheery fuckers cab.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 20, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I've got those auto lights on my car now and they seem to be on pretty much all the time, in light where I would never have stuck lights on when it was manual in my old cars. I know I can turn them off but find the auto thing handy cos I used to be terrible for forgetting for a few minutes pulling out of car parks and that.



Don't be like me, hire a car without them and come out the next day to find the battery flat...


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## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> Id rather ride a bike with two flat tires home than step into that cheery fuckers cab.


Yes, a miserable git but you can't fault his observations. Having to drive around London all day and witness all that moronicity from paedalists can't do much to keep you cheery either.


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## Marty1 (Jan 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Nope; they're just a different type of cunt. These are the ones who'll crash through red lights, charge between lines of traffic, and swerve in front or behind peds on crossings because they can't possibly lose any speed.



Ive only had one run in with a lycra man cyclist, was bizarre - I was heading to get some diesel at local garage and spotted him so overtook giving him a full vehicle width when passing then turned into forecourt.  He then cycled by slowly shouting incoherently and waving his arms at me, no idea what his problem was but he just fkd off.

One thing I did notice about him tho was hehad one of those GoPro type cameras stuck on his head so maybe he was looking for footage for his YouTube channel


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## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> He then cycled by slowly shouting incoherently and waving his arms at me, no idea what his problem was...


He was probably just asking for directions to Jimmy Savile's place.


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## salem (Jan 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> This vid pretty much sums up London cyclists. Check out the dickhead at 0.35 secs. Absolutely typical though:



The bloke at 35 sec, terrible we can all agree (and the cabbies repeated it 3 x for full effect). Other then that most of those were perfectly safe with the cyclists slowing and treating the light as a give way and passing through only because it's clear and safe to do so. If that's the best he can get from ~8 hours a day driving about then it's even less of a problem then I'd have thought.

I notice he cut the clip at 1.40 just before he ran the red light himself or at the very least went in the ASL.


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## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

salem said:


> Other then that most of those were perfectly safe with the cyclists slowing and treating the light as a give way ...


 Priceless!

You're a really bad cyclist aren't you?


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

salem said:


> Other then that most of those were perfectly safe with the cyclists slowing and treating the light as a give way and passing through only because it's clear and safe to do so.


Except it isn't a give way sign. It's a red light. It means you must stop. 
I take it you're one of those cyclists who thinks red lights only apply to motorists.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Priceless!
> 
> You're a really bad cyclist aren't you?


I wonder if he attended the Top Gun school of cycling.


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## IC3D (Jan 20, 2020)

Yea I thought it was pretty mild and notable that the man almost hit just crossed the road and didn't bat an eyelid.


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## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> Yea I thought it was pretty mild and notable that the man almost hit just crossed the road and didn't bat an eyelid.


Probably because he's used to it.


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## nick (Jan 20, 2020)

salem said:


> Other then that most of those were perfectly safe with the cyclists slowing and treating the light as a give way and passing through only because it's clear and safe to do so.



Agree that it may have been safe and not directly endangered others, and the crimes committed were not Worse Than Hitler, but......

It is a mandatory requirement to stop at a red. 
As you can see from the above comments it can easily  wind up people in surrounding cars. All it needs is for one of them to: decide that all cyclists are as bad as that example they have just seen; intellectualise them as sub-human and then to; do something endangering to the next random person on a bike that they come across, "because they are all as bad as each other".

It can be annoying to lose momentum and have to wait at a red, when it is clearly safe to go - but that's the way it goes


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

nick said:


> Agree that it may have been safe and not directly endangered others, and the crimes committed were not Worse Than Hitler, but......
> 
> It is a mandatory requirement to stop at a red.
> As you can see from the above comments it can easily  wind up people in surrounding cars. All it needs is for one of them to: decide that all cyclists are as bad as that example they have just seen; intellectualise them as sub-human and then to; do something endangering to the next random person on a bike that they come across, "because they are all as bad as each other".
> ...


A cyclist with sense. What a refreshing change.


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## nick (Jan 20, 2020)

I thengyou


I'd suggest it's more common than you think. It's just that a few knob ends (most just being annoying, some endangering their own safety without even realising and, a few endangering other users as well) tend to get a higher profile and attract those sweeping generalisations that we have seen in this thread

It's the same with those drivers that cut up cyclists, don't give sufficient space, cut across them to turn left,  pull out in front etc etc. A few can give a bad name to the many


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## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Ive only had one run in with a lycra man cyclist, was bizarre - I was heading to get some diesel at local garage and spotted him so overtook giving him a full vehicle width when passing then turned into forecourt.  He then cycled by slowly shouting incoherently and waving his arms at me, no idea what his problem was but he just fkd off.
> 
> One thing I did notice about him tho was hehad one of those GoPro type cameras stuck on his head so maybe he was looking for footage for his YouTube channel


Did you cut across him when you turned into the garage? That would make anyone shout.

Also there is a lot of assumption that cyclists are going somewhere like work on this thread. Lots of people cycle for fitness in the same way runners do. Be a bit boring if we were all the same, wouldnt it?


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 20, 2020)

nick said:


> I thengyou
> 
> 
> I'd suggest it's more common than you think. It's just that a few knob ends (most just being annoying, some endangering their own safety without even realising and, a few endangering other users as well) tend to get a higher profile and attract those sweeping generalisations that we have seen in this thread
> ...



Stop being sensible, there's no place for that on this thread.


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## nick (Jan 20, 2020)

Sorry - I'd better take a voluntary temporary ban until I get my head straight


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## IC3D (Jan 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Probably because he's used to it.


Probably just got off the tube fuming about tourists on the wrong side of the escalator and stepped out oblivious to the red light himself.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> ... stepped out oblivious to the red light himself.


Eh?


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> You're right, I don't. But I do ride a motorbike and I drive a car occasionally.



The point is this is not a cycling standards thread. We can't have one of those any more, because you kept shitting all over them and getting them locked.


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## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> The point is this is not a cycling standards thread.


It's a poor point. The thread is whatever we make it.


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## Marty1 (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> Did you cut across him when you turned into the garage? That would make anyone shout.
> 
> Also there is a lot of assumption that cyclists are going somewhere like work on this thread. Lots of people cycle for fitness in the same way runners do. Be a bit boring if we were all the same, wouldnt it?



No, I was mindful of him at all times, turned in with him way behind me, hence his bizarre behaviour.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> The point is this is not a cycling standards thread. We can't have one of those any more, because you kept shitting all over them and getting them locked.


Nah, it was you and your bad advice, and another dummy spitter that got it closed, because you couldn't handle the truth.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> Probably just got off the tube fuming about tourists on the wrong side of the escalator and stepped out oblivious to the red light himself.


The light wasn't red for the ped. You're just trolling now, aren't you


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> Did you cut across him when you turned into the garage? That would make anyone shout.
> 
> Also there is a lot of assumption that cyclists are going somewhere like work on this thread. Lots of people cycle for fitness in the same way runners do. Be a bit boring if we were all the same, wouldnt it?



The Queen’s highway is part of the transport network, not some kind of fucking gymnasium. If these people wish to cycle for fitness there are velodromes and cycle tracks for them.


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## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The Queen’s highway is part of the transport network, not some kind of fucking gymnasium. If these people wish to cycle for fitness there are velodromes and cycle tracks for them.


They arent as good as the road. Queen's highway? Lol   Dont worry, my dad sometimes 'goes for a drive' for no reason so that levels it out a bit.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> They arent as good as the road. Queen's highway? Lol   Dont worry, my dad sometimes 'goes for a drive' for no reason so that levels it out a bit.



The analogy would be, ‘I like a spot of motorsport, so I’ll head out on the A3 in my Formula 3 for a bit of sport’ - it’s not on, imho.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The Queen’s highway is part of the transport network, not some kind of fucking gymnasium. If these people wish to cycle for fitness there are velodromes and cycle tracks for them.



Queen's highway ffs. Listen to yourself mate.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> Also there is a lot of assumption that cyclists are going somewhere like work on this thread. Lots of people cycle for fitness in the same way runners do. Be a bit boring if we were all the same, wouldnt it?


I must remember to use that excuse next time a copper asks me why I'm doing bench presses in the middle lane of the M6.


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## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> I must remember to use that excuse next time a copper asks me why I'm doing bench presses in the middle lane of the M6.


Be my guest


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Queen's highway ffs. Listen to yourself mate.



I thought you set out your stall as some kind of road trainer type person, surely you are aware of the legal definition of public rights of way in the UK?


----------



## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The analogy would be, ‘I like a spot of motorsport, so I’ll head out on the A3 in my Formula 3 for a bit of sport’ - it’s not on, imho.


Well not really. Because cyclists dont pollute, speed or use their heavy powerful vehicle like a weapon.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> Well not really. Because cyclists dont pollute, speed or use their heavy powerful vehicle like a weapon.


Apart from the likes of the twat in the above video posted by Spymaster ?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> Well not really. Because cyclists dont pollute, speed or use their heavy powerful vehicle like a weapon.



Cyclists don’t emit CO2 now? Really?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I thought you set out your stall as some kind of road trainer type person, surely you are aware of the legal definition of public rights of way in the UK?



Yes. And that definition has nothing to do with whether or not you think a journey is being made for a valid reason or not.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yes. And that definition has nothing to do with whether or not you think a journey is being made for a valid reason or not.



Are you aware of the history of the Queens Highway? And how the aristos fought, and continue to fight against public access to land? Yet these quinoa scoffing cunts with their meat and two veg waving around for all to see feel it is acceptable to hold up the traffic so that they can use it as part of their fitness regime. They can frankly fuck right off Frank.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Are you aware of the history of the Queens Highway? And how the aristos fought, and continue to fight against public access to land? Yet these quinoa scoffing cunts with their meat and two veg waving around for all to see feel it is acceptable to hold up the traffic so that they can use it as part of their fitness regime. They can frankly fuck right off Frank.



What can you possibly think the first part of this post has to do with the second?

E2a: second thoughts, I don't care. Just take your rage and fuck off to mail online with the rest of the boomers.


----------



## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Are you aware of the history of the Queens Highway? And how the aristos fought, and continue to fight against public access to land? Yet these quinoa scoffing cunts with their meat and two veg waving around for all to see feel it is acceptable to hold up the traffic so that they can use it as part of their fitness regime. They can frankly fuck right off Frank.


So they can only make journeys that you think are necessary


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> So they can only make journeys that you think are necessary



He seems to think winning the fight for access to public land was a _bad_ thing.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

Also the queen, who pays no tax, is actually the only person in the UK to whom the public highways do _not_ belong.


----------



## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also the queen, who pays no tax, is actually the only person in the UK to whom the public highways do _not_ belong.


Quite right too. She's a bugger when she's got her lycra on.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> So they can only make journeys that you think are necessary



Yes, of course. Why would this be contentious?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> Quite right too. She's a bugger when she's got her lycra on.



Even still, for the sake of generosity of spirit I'm willing to permit her the use of my highways. Provided she sticks to the gutters and doesn't get in the way of my bike.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also the queen, who pays no tax...



Whilst not required to, she does voluntarily pay amounts equal to what income tax would be.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Whilst not required to, she does voluntarily pay amounts equal to what income tax would be.



You fucking love doing voluntary PR work for the ruling classes don't you?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> What can you possibly think the first part of this post has to do with the second?
> 
> E2a: second thoughts, I don't care. Just take your rage and fuck off to mail online with the rest of the boomers.



You fail to read correctly, which is no great surprise.

These twats who put on fancy dress in order to ride a bike are giving the aristos all the ammunition they need to close off public access to land by abusing that access with their ridiculous costumes and disregard for the laws pertaining to road use...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> You fucking love doing voluntary PR work for the ruling classes don't you?



WTF are you taking about?

I was merely pointing out a fact, which you don't seem to like, because it pisses on your parade.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> These twats who put on fancy dress in order to ride a bike are giving the aristos all the ammunition they need to close off public access to land by abusing that access with their ridiculous costumes and disregard for the laws pertaining to road use...



You think the ruling class are going to close all the roads. Because of people on bikes having a nice time. That's beyond ludicrous.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> WTF are you taking about?
> 
> I was merely pointing out a fact, which you don't seem to like, because it pisses on your parade.



So you think the queen does own all the roads?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> So you think the queen does own all the roads?



Are you drunk?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Are you drunk?



No I'm just happy. We cyclists are like that.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I thought you set out your stall as some kind of road trainer type person ...


He's pretty good in the air too ...


SpookyFrank said:


> I'm a trained pilot.





Not a bad sailor either, no doubt!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 20, 2020)

Yet, he comes across more like a space cadet.


----------



## nogojones (Jan 20, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The analogy would be, ‘I like a spot of motorsport, so I’ll head out on the A3 in my Formula 3 for a bit of sport’ - it’s not on, imho.


Yeah. I agree. All road cars should be restricted to 70 mph as the roads are only about serious business


----------



## IC3D (Jan 20, 2020)

London has running cunts blinding everyone on the busy pavement now.
Didn't imagine these urban joggers could get more annoying yet someone had the idea to stick a fuck off great light on their chest to dazzle you before they plow into you.
At least cyclists mostly stay on the road.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> London has running cunts blinding everyone on the busy pavement now.
> Didn't imagine these urban joggers could get more annoying yet someone had the idea to stick a fuck off great light on their chest to dazzle you before they plow into you.
> At least cyclists mostly stay on the road.


It's a shame more cyclists don't follow their lead and use proper lights in the dark.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> ... stepped out oblivious to the red light himself.


And what did you mean by this IC3D ?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 20, 2020)

Love cycling dead fast on roads for fun, haven't done much for a few years but plan on getting back into it big time this year. It's great fun, pisses on driving. Gonna go full lyrcra too, no more shorts over top, fuck it. I do stop at reds though. Usually front and centre thereby preventing cars behind me overtaking from the stop.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> London has running cunts blinding everyone on the busy pavement now.
> Didn't imagine these urban joggers could get more annoying yet someone had the idea to stick a fuck off great light on their chest to dazzle you before they plow into you.
> At least cyclists mostly stay on the road.



If nothing else, running along a busy road in central London is probably worse for your health than doing no exercise at all. It's probably worse  doing no exercise and smoking a pack a day.


----------



## Marty1 (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> London has running cunts blinding everyone on the busy pavement now.
> Didn't imagine these urban joggers could get more annoying yet someone had the idea to stick a fuck off great light on their chest to dazzle you before they plow into you.
> At least cyclists mostly stay on the road.



Can’t imagine gulping in large volumes of polluted London air would be good for anyone.


----------



## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> London has running cunts blinding everyone on the busy pavement now.
> Didn't imagine these urban joggers could get more annoying yet someone had the idea to stick a fuck off great light on their chest to dazzle you before they plow into you.
> At least cyclists mostly stay on the road.


Imagine wearing a light so that you can be seen more easily. Thin end of wedge. Hell in a handcart etc.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Love cycling dead fast on roads for fun, haven't done much for a few years but plan on getting back into it big time this year. It's great fun, pisses on driving. Gonna go full lyrcra too, no more shorts over top, fuck it. I do stop at reds though. Usually front and centre thereby preventing cars behind me overtaking from the stop.


I believe every word of this post. Honest.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I do stop at reds though. Usually front and centre thereby preventing cars behind me overtaking from the stop.



This is what you're supposed to do. Newer cycle lanes will guide you into the middle of the lane at light-controlled junctions. You are also entirely within your rights to stay in a controlling position in the lane when not at a junction. In many situations this is the only safe place to ride anyway.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> This is what you're supposed to do. Newer cycle lanes will guide you into the middle of the lane at light-controlled junctions. You are also entirely within your rights to stay in a controlling position in the lane when not at a junction. In many situations this is the only safe place to ride anyway.


Is it similar to the way you position your aircraft on the runway before take off SpookyFrank ?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> This is what you're supposed to do. Newer cycle lanes will guide you into the middle of the lane at light-controlled junctions. You are also entirely within your rights to stay in a controlling position in the lane when not at a junction. In many situations this is the only safe place to ride anyway.



Yeah I know - when I started cycling again at about 30 I did that thing of trying to stay in gutter and realised it just meant dickheads would hit you with their wing mirrors without budging an inch or paying any attention to how fucking dangerous they were being. But also I'll take renewed pleasure in winding up dickheads who seem to think anything on public roads that isn't a motor with four wheels is an outrage


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> - when I started cycling again at about 30 ...


In 20 mph zones, no doubt.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> In 20 mph zones, no doubt.



One of my proudest cycling moments was making a speed camera flash (it was down a small mountain, like fuck I'm fit enough to do anything close to 30mph on a flat)


----------



## IC3D (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> Imagine wearing a light so that you can be seen more easily. Thin end of wedge. Hell in a handcart etc.


If they're aware enough they might cause an accident by pelting along a packed thoroughfare perhaps they need to adhere to a standard and be required to possess a licence


----------



## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> If they're aware enough they might cause an accident by pelting along a packed thoroughfare perhaps they need to adhere to a standard and be required to possess a licence


When you're running across roads that are perpendicular to the pavement I'd say a light is exactly what you need, though, don't you find? Largely because some fuckers don't indicate. I'm getting one!


----------



## IC3D (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot you're not supposed to run out into the road


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 20, 2020)

It's as if the Green Cross Code has been totally forgotten.


----------



## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

IC3D said:


> Poot you're not supposed to run out into the road


I don't. It's the surprise left and right turns that get me every time. Indicators LITERALLY save lives.


----------



## nick (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> You think the ruling class are going to close all the roads. Because of people on bikes having a nice time. That's beyond ludicrous.



They are on 16 August - when I get to cycle right through the middle of London and back again on closed roads.  I hope to have a nice time


----------



## T & P (Jan 20, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's as if the Green Cross Code has been totally forgotten.


Pedestrians in this country are nowadays practically actively _encouraged_ by some campaginers to cross the road whenever and wherever the fuck they please, and without even the courtesy or common sense of a cursory look. It's as dangerous a policy as is preposterous IMO, yet you will have your head bitten off if you suggest they should bear some responsibility regardless of whether the law might dictate they have priority over motor vehicles on urban areas.

Every day I ride a bike (both pushbike or motorcyle) or drive a car in London I'm end up being a bit more inclined towards supporting the introduction of jaywalking legislation in cities, to be honest.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 20, 2020)

T & P said:


> Pedestrians in this country are nowadays practically actively _encouraged_ by some campaginers to cross the road whenever and wherever the fuck they please, and without even the courtesy or common sense of a cursory look. It's as dangerous a policy as is preposterous IMO, yet you will have your head bitten off if you suggest they should bear some responsibility regardless of whether the law might dictate they have priority over motor vehicles on urban areas.
> 
> Every day I ride a bike (both pushbike or motorcyle) or drive a car in London I'm end up being a bit more inclined towards supporting the introduction of jaywalking legislation in cities, to be honest.



What campaigners tell pedestrians to walk into the road willy nilly


----------



## T & P (Jan 20, 2020)

More than one on these boards Not necessarily at official or organised campaign level, though exisiting legislation granting pedestrians de facto immunity from prosecution for non-malitious road incidents is very wrong IMO

Apparently peds have priority on cities, so if one decides to suddenly step onto a busy road, it's up to the cars to stop on time to avoid hitting them. And everything else, including basic physics and Newton's Laws of Motion, be damned.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 20, 2020)

I'm not convinced tbh


----------



## Poot (Jan 20, 2020)

T & P said:


> More than one on these boards


Who?!


----------



## T & P (Jan 20, 2020)

Poot said:


> Who?!


teuchter is one. But regardless of how many or few people here or elsewhere believe that, the fact remains that legislation in this coutnry regarding pedestrians actions and legal liabilities are in some aspects diametrically opposed to the approach in many European countries as well as in North America. I firmly believe that is causing more harm than good to pedestrian safety overall.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2020)

T & P said:


> Pedestrians in this country are nowadays practically actively _encouraged_ by some campaginers to cross the road whenever and wherever the fuck they please, and without even the courtesy or common sense of a cursory look.



These campaigns have escaped my notice entirely I have to say. 

I would say that urban centres should be as pedestrianised as possible so that people can move around at leisure without fear of being run over, but obviously no sane person would recommend walking out into a road used by motor vehicles without looking. As I mostly travel by bike, people who jaywalk are risking my neck as well as their own. 

It is however worth noting that the term, and concept, of 'jaywalking' arose from a campaign by motor vehicle manufacturers. Obviously highways predate motor cars by some millennia and pedestrians can with considerable justice claim that they were there first.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> I would say that urban centres should be as pedestrianised as possible so that people can move around at leisure without fear of being run over ...


Unfortunately, pedestrianising areas gives no guarantee at all that people won't be run over. Cyclists routinely ride in them because of course, the rules don't apply to them.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 20, 2020)

Wonder what the death by RTA per 100k is in pedestrianised areas compared to roads with cars and that


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Wonder what the death by RTA per 100k is in pedestrianised areas compared to roads with cars and that


"Peds don't get killed by cyclists in pedestrianised areas so it's ok for cyclists to ride in them"

Typical.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> "Peds don't get killed by cyclists in pedestrianised areas so it's ok for cyclists to ride in them"
> 
> Typical.



Just trying to understand the relative risks and consequences


----------



## Plumdaff (Jan 20, 2020)

Drove home behind a car whose driver was either drunk or something else weird was going on. Went through two red lights in front of me - not sure either junction has cameras - I caught up both times as they then meandered along at around 15 miles an hour with the right indicator on. Got the reg but is there any point reporting? Nothing will happen, will it?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2020)

Plumdaff said:


> Got the reg but is there any point reporting? Nothing will happen, will it?


Not now it won't. You should have reported him there and then.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jan 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Not now it won't. You should have reported him there and then.



Lesson for next time. If it hadn't been the end of a 12-hour shift with no lunch break I might have been more willing to pull over to call.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Wonder what the death by RTA per 100k is in pedestrianised areas compared to roads with cars and that


Wonder what the death by RTA per 100k is in Omniplex cinemas compared to roads with cars and that.

I think your post is a good contender for silliest post of the year.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 20, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Wonder what the death by RTA per 100k is in Omniplex cinemas compared to roads with cars and that.
> 
> I think your post is a good contender for silliest post of the year.



There was that bloke who got trapped in a seat, grim story


----------



## two sheds (Jan 20, 2020)

Not exactly a major point but indicative of the arrogant attitude of a lot of drivers: 

Nearly all car drivers down here (Cornwall) acknowledge other car drivers when they give way. But I often walk the dog along road with no pavement and a curve so you can't see what's coming either direction. Any car I see coming either way I get into the side and off the road and stop to let them through. Nearly all van and lorry drivers acknowledge me but I'd say only a third of car drivers do.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 20, 2020)

two sheds said:


> Not exactly a major point but indicative of the arrogant attitude of a lot of drivers:
> 
> Nearly all car drivers down here (Cornwall) acknowledge other car drivers when they give way. But I often walk the dog along road with no pavement and a curve so you can't see what's coming either direction. Any car I see coming either way I get into the side and off the road and stop to let them through. Nearly all van and lorry drivers acknowledge me but I'd say only a third of car drivers do.


I always wave at people walking dogs, and sometimes stop to talk to them, if I like the dog.
I recently stopped to talk to the owner of a Husky that regularly comes to my house for a cuddle and a treat. He's an absolutely gorgeous dog, and I said to her "Next time he comes to my house, I'm kidnapping him and keeping him." It wasn't until I saw the look on her face that I realised what I'd said, and spent the next couple of minutes explaining that I wasn't a psycho dognapper, I was merely a neighbour who loved her dog.


----------



## nick (Jan 21, 2020)




----------



## BigTom (Jan 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Unfortunately, pedestrianising areas gives no guarantee at all that people won't be run over. Cyclists routinely ride in them because of course, the rules don't apply to them.



Worth remembering that by default, cycling is allowed in pedestrianised areas, and that cycling needs to be explicitly banned with a no cycling or no vehicles sign. Many pedestrianised areas (including Birmingham city centre) have no signage or signage which explicitly only bars motorised vehicles (possibly with allowances at certain times) which means cycling is allowed. 
Local bylaws can be put in place to change this but as a general principle in law, cyclists are allowed to cycle in pedestrianised areas.



> In determining the law in this area, an important distinction to highlight is the difference between footways and footpaths. A footway is what is commonly referred to as the pavement (although they are not always paved) which runs alongside a carriageway or road whilst a footpath is situated away from the road, often between buildings or in the countryside. Cycling on a footpath generally only constitutes a trespass against the landowner which is a civil rather than a criminal matter. This means that the police cannot take any enforcement action which includes the issuance of a Fixed Penalty Notice.  It is important to note however, that local authorities can make it a criminal offence to cycle on a footpath by means of a bylaw or traffic regulation order under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
> 
> Similarly, local bylaws can make cycling in pedestrianised zones or vehicle restricted areas, such as shopping precincts, a criminal offence and consequently enforceable by the police and punishable with a Fixed Penalty Notice.  Not all Traffic Regulation Orders prohibiting the entry of vehicles to areas such as shopping streets prohibit cycling but, when they do, they must be observed.







__





						Cycling Offences – Cycling on the Pavement and other Pedestrianised Areas | Cycle Law
					





					www.cyclelaw.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 22, 2020)

'Scoreboards' added to speed indicators in Poole and Corfe Mullen
					

The boards featured "scores" suggesting motorists have been driving over the 30mph speed limit.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## T & P (Jan 22, 2020)

(Liked because it's obviously a prank).


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 22, 2020)

Poot said:


> Imagine wearing a light so that you can be seen more easily. Thin end of wedge. Hell in a handcart etc.



Joggers certainly won’t move or slow down for others I’ll give em that


----------



## Poot (Jan 22, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Joggers certainly won’t move or slow down for others I’ll give em that


I like to punch grannies on the way past. I might start taking an air horn with me.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 22, 2020)

Is it basically anybody exercising outdoors that is a wanker then, is that the rule of thumb. Look at those cunts, doing exercise, in clothes designed for that type of exercise, not paying road tax, cunts


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 22, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Is it basically anybody exercising outdoors that is a wanker then, is that the rule of thumb. Look at those cunts, doing exercise, in clothes designed for that type of exercise, not paying road tax, cunts


You're learning


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 22, 2020)

With much of the current road system, the only safe way to ride a bike is to get up people’s noses a bit by being in the way, out wide and visible. Meek cyclists clinging to the gutter don’t get noticed and are run off the roads or twatted by doors opening on parked cars. Obviously getting in the way of cars/trucks can piss off the terminally impatient, cause conflict etc. Not ideal but in many cases necessary for a better chance of not ending up under someone’s wheels. Bar the odd nutter, people won’t deliberately run you over for this, at worst most will just piss and moan about it on the internet.

Better designed cycling infrastructure (I.e stuff that allows people to get where they want to go at a reasonable rate, not 90 degree turns and push-button crossings) will remove a lot of this conflict by keeping bikes out of the way of cars, make it easier to coexist. I’m surprised it’s not more popular with people who mainly drive cars.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 22, 2020)

.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 24, 2020)

Crashing into the front of a police station, whilst over the drink driving limit.   











						Driver sentenced after crashing into West Sussex police station while over the alcohol limit
					

A horse riding instructor who crashed into the front of a police station in West Sussex while above the drink driving limit has been sentenced.




					www.worthingherald.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 24, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Crashing into the front of a police station, whilst over the drink driving limit.
> 
> View attachment 196490
> 
> ...



Heh, not sure if that is better or worse than the cunt who crashed in to Guildford magistrates court last year, also pissed.


----------



## T & P (Jan 24, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Crashing into the front of a police station, whilst over the drink driving limit.
> 
> View attachment 196490
> 
> ...


Maybe the driver were reporting themselves to the cops. First step towards recovery etc


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 24, 2020)

T & P said:


> Maybe the driver were reporting themselves to the cops. First step towards recovery etc



Cutting out the middleman...












						Mercedes driver, 28, smashes into Guildford law court wall at 4am
					

A 28-year-old has been charged with drink-driving




					www.getsurrey.co.uk


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 5, 2020)

T & P said:


> Maybe the driver were reporting themselves to the cops. First step towards recovery etc



Except you can apparently run over a copper on purpose and still go free from court without even a driving ban.









						Yorkshire police officer deliberately mowed down by motorist on mobile phone speaks of anger as he walks free from court
					

A Yorkshire police officer who was deliberately mowed down by a motorist after he told him to get off his mobile phone has spoken of his anger and frustration after he walked free from court.




					www.yorkshirepost.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 5, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Except you can apparently run over a copper on purpose and still go free from court without even a driving ban.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whereas a cyclist convicted of the same offence but who actually killed someone, got a derisory 18 month prison sentence.


----------



## nick (Feb 5, 2020)

ok - i'll bite

Suspect you're talking of Charlie Alliston? I think you'll be had pressed to find anyone that will support him, whether they're a user of 2 wheels or four

However,  a quick google to check the spelling of his name brought me this - an interesting comparison of the press and relative punishment for cyclists v drivers (though the source does imply that it may not be totally independent)
Twitter user's response to media coverage of cyclist jailed for killing pedestrian is hard-hitting - and heartbreaking

But since the thread title is "driving standards", I guess that it should to be saved for another topic


----------



## Saul Goodman (Feb 5, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Except you can apparently run over a copper on purpose and still go free from court without even a driving ban.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You say that like it's a bad thing.


----------



## Riklet (Feb 6, 2020)

People who dont indicate on the motorway....


----------



## Saul Goodman (Feb 6, 2020)

Riklet said:


> People who dont indicate


FFY


----------



## hash tag (Feb 6, 2020)

Riklet said:


> People who dont indicate on the motorway....


Also, previously mentioned, people who indicate and automatically have right of way and/or think their indicator is connected to my brakes.


----------



## HAL9000 (Feb 10, 2020)

> 101mph in a 30mph area



This  seems a bit fast for UK roads, and he was doing it to improve his skills not for an emergency call.



> PC Paul Brown, 48, of Norwich, denied 16 driving offences while in an unmarked police BMW X5.
> 
> Ipswich magistrates heard he drove with blue lights on, ran four red lights and reached speeds of 122mph.
> 
> He was cleared of the charges after telling the court he was carrying out continuous professional development (CPD) - a mandatory requirement.





> PC Brown argued he was lawfully exempt from traffic laws as he was carrying out his CPD and the court heard he was "shocked" to have faced charges











						Norfolk PC drove at 101mph in 30mph zone 'while training'
					

PC Paul Brown is acquitted of driving offences after telling the court he was "refreshing his skills".



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 10, 2020)

HAL9000 said:


> This  seems a bit fast for UK roads, and he was doing it to improve his skills not for an emergency call.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wouldn't the police have had to report him?

How did it reach court?


----------



## HAL9000 (Feb 10, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Wouldn't the police have had to report him?
> 
> How did it reach court?



The vehicle has an on board data logger..



> Based on information received later that day from a former police officer, his superior, James Waller, examined telematics on the car and found data which led to the 11 speeding charges, four counts of failing to comply with traffic lights and one charge of failing to comply with a traffic sign.











						Police officer accused of speeding to beat traffic cleared of 16 charges
					

A police officer accused of abusing his position to “force through rush hour traffic” at up to 122mph on a personal errand has been...




					www.eadt.co.uk
				




So his superior thought he was out of order.


----------



## polly (Feb 10, 2020)

I almost had a head on collision with the filth recently as they were going warp speed on the wrong side of the road into a blind bend  I had to mount the pavement which was, luckily, empty. My skills were refreshed anyway.


----------



## HAL9000 (Feb 10, 2020)

HAL9000 said:


> This  seems a bit fast for UK roads, and he was doing it to improve his skills not for an emergency call.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had a look around on the internet I found some ambulance speed limits..



page 18



			https://www.scas.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/Driving-and-care-of-vehicles.pdf
		


These suggested numbers seem sensible, even then in some situations 45 mph is going to be too fast in a 30 mph.    But 105 mph seems reckless.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 26, 2020)

Well, if you're are going to crash when pissed-up, it may as well be a police car.    





> According to Sussex Police, officers were driving westbound along Brighton Road about 9.19pm on Friday, January 24 when a Volkswagen Polo pulled away from the kerb and collided with their vehicle and a parked vehicle, causing minor damage to both. The officers were not on an emergency call at the time and no injuries were reported.
> 
> At Worthing Magistrates’ Court on February 18, Chapman was sentenced to 16 weeks’ imprisonment, suspended for 12 months, and disqualified from driving for three years.
> 
> He was also required to carry out 200 hours of unpaid work, and pay £85 costs and a £122 victim surcharge, police said.











						Worthing drink driver crashes into police car
					

A drink driver in Worthing was more than four times the legal limit when he crashed into a police car.




					www.shorehamherald.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Feb 26, 2020)

No potholes were involved  
4x the limit


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 26, 2020)

Four times the limit and he walks out of court. Seems reasonable


----------



## T & P (Feb 26, 2020)

Who gets the £102 Victims’ Surcharge?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 26, 2020)

T & P said:


> Who gets the £102 Victims’ Surcharge?



Victims’ surcharges are pooled and distributed through the Victim and Witness General Fund.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 9, 2020)

150MPH on M23?
BBC News - Motorbike seized after 150mph quiet motorway ride








						Motorbike seized after 150mph quiet motorway ride
					

The rider sped past a police patrol car on the unusually quiet M23 in Sussex.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 9, 2020)

hash tag said:


> 150MPH on M23?
> BBC News - Motorbike seized after 150mph quiet motorway ride
> 
> 
> ...


Fucking twat. Seriously disappointing. 





Empty roads and he still got caught.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 9, 2020)

I haven't driven for 2 weeks , just went and sat in the car , started her up for old time's sake


----------



## DownwardDog (Apr 10, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Fucking twat. Seriously disappointing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Plod caught him in a car park afterwards. At 150+ you might as well run because it's going to be messy whatever happens.

You're not a real petrolhead unless you've run from the law at least once...


----------



## T & P (Apr 10, 2020)

Perhaps the coppers have been misquoted, but I love the fact that the article seems to suggest the police was chiefly disappointed that he’d gone for a ride during the lockdown, rather than he was seen travelling at probably one of the highest speeds ever recorded in the UK


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 10, 2020)

Some Cannonballers broke the New York to LA record on Monday-Tuesday, 26 hours and 38 minutes for the 3000 or so miles. Audi, natch


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 10, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Fucking twat. Seriously disappointing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, and even worst the twat was from Worthing, oh, the shame.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 12, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Some Cannonballers broke the New York to LA record on Monday-Tuesday, 26 hours and 38 minutes for the 3000 or so miles. Audi, natch




perfect conditions I suppose. the cannonballers nowadays arre usually well funded and organised to ease the passage. there has beeen some debate as to whether this record is legit because lockdown etc etc


----------



## 8ball (Apr 12, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> perfect conditions I suppose. the cannonballers nowadays arre usually well funded and organised to ease the passage. there has beeen some debate as to whether this record is legit because lockdown etc etc



Could argue that best thing is to consider it legit.  If it becomes unbeatable in further years, less incentive to replicate it and endanger people


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 13, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> perfect conditions I suppose. the cannonballers nowadays arre usually well funded and organised to ease the passage. there has beeen some debate as to whether this record is legit because lockdown etc etc



Yeah, massively illegal thing not legit...


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 14, 2020)

yeah, i  know. its not cricket doing a run during lockdown apparently


----------



## hash tag (Apr 22, 2020)

134 in a 40!
i guess the traffic keeps speed down Drivers 'using roads as racetrack' during lockdown


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 22, 2020)

hash tag said:


> 134 in a 40!
> i guess the traffic keeps speed down Drivers 'using roads as racetrack' during lockdown




This is weird, since lockdown my speeds have come down; fewer dickheads pootling along at 20 in a 40 means a steady 40, added to the fact that not really in hurry to be anywhere, sun's out and no tickets for me...


----------



## hash tag (Apr 22, 2020)

Less pressure, fewer rats fighting for space, no competing or trying not to be out done, I guess


----------



## dervish (Apr 29, 2020)

Outside our house we have a really "good" hill for speeding. It starts off steep, then levels out then flattens just at the point where it gets filled with parked cars and islands. Occasionally you hear someone hurtling down or up it at stupid speeds, very occasionally there is a crash as someone fucks it up, but recently at least once a week there is some idiot doing ludicrous speed because it's pretty empty.

It's going to be interesting when everyone starts moving again, a combination of all the people that have got used to the roads being empty and all the people that haven't driven for 2 months, think the amount of crashes are going to go up a lot.


----------



## hash tag (May 5, 2020)

This is not Bahnhof Strasse unless he has changed his motor. Apart from the obvious, what's wrong with people








						Out-of-control Audi misses pedestrian by inches as it rolls onto pavement
					

The dramatic footage shows an Audi collide with a truck on a narrow road, just missing a man walking with his shopping. He runs as fast as he can when he hears and sees the crash




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 5, 2020)

hash tag said:


> This is not Bahnhof Strasse unless he has changed his motor. Apart from the obvious, what's wrong with people
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In 30 years behind the wheel I have never overtaken anything other than a bike or milk float on a residential road, what an arsehole!


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 5, 2020)

hash tag said:


> 134 in a 40!
> i guess the traffic keeps speed down Drivers 'using roads as racetrack' during lockdown



Shit like this should be dealt with as attempted murder IMO. And the shit gibbons who make cars designed to go at double the speed limit and then market them specifically to halfwit manbabies should be up there as accomplices.


----------



## T & P (May 5, 2020)

hash tag said:


> This is not Bahnhof Strasse unless he has changed his motor. Apart from the obvious, what's wrong with people
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Audi came out of the incident relavitely well all things considered...


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2020)

T & P said:


> That Audi came out of the incident relavitely well all things considered...


Unlike the ped's underwear.


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Shit like this should be dealt with as attempted murder IMO.


Of whom?


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 5, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Of whom?


Crows.


----------



## HAL9000 (May 5, 2020)




----------



## cupid_stunt (May 5, 2020)

HAL9000 said:


>




As already posted just above.


----------



## hash tag (May 5, 2020)

It just keeps on Rollin


----------



## Teaboy (May 6, 2020)

Looking at the title of the video I assumed it was just going to be that little A-Class tipping over as it attempted to go round a corner at 17mph.


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2020)

I like the little 'beep' as the car completes its final roll.


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 6, 2020)

Better version.


----------



## hash tag (May 17, 2020)

Justice should be seen to be done, right?
Naming and shaming; what do people think?








						Names and details of Derbyshire bad drivers revealed by court
					

They've been caught without seat belts, licenses, insurance and driving without due care an attention




					www.derbytelegraph.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 17, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Justice should be seen to be done, right?
> Naming and shaming; what do people think?
> 
> 
> ...



The details are a matter of public record anyway, not entirely sure why anyone would bother reading about it in a local rag though.


----------



## hash tag (May 17, 2020)

Just think if the Godalming Gazette did this, Just what would your neighbours think


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 17, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The details are a matter of public record anyway, not entirely sure why anyone would bother reading about it in a local rag though.



Our local rag has always published a round-up of all convictions in the local court, I always scan the list, looking to see if anyone I know is on it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 17, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Just think if the Godalming Gazette did this, Just what would your neighbours think



My neighbours know what I’m like already, except for a woman who moved next door at Christmas, but she’s a fruitloop anyway; who moves house on 23rd December? The kind of person who keeps a rabbit in a hutch on a hill, that’s who!


----------



## nick (May 17, 2020)

It’s probably a mountain rabbit.  
keeping it on level ground would be a cruelty


----------



## HAL9000 (May 23, 2020)




----------



## hash tag (May 24, 2020)

Thats impressive. That would have been 30 limit, possibly a 20. 4 cars written off at least.
Is that in the North West, Liverpool perhaps?


----------



## Crispy (May 24, 2020)

Close. Preston








						The moment a car smashes into several parked vehicles in Preston
					

This is the moment a fast moving car clipped several stationary vehicles on a narrow Preston street before smashing into another and destroying it.




					www.lep.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (May 24, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> My neighbours know what I’m like already, except for a woman who moved next door at Christmas, but she’s a fruitloop anyway; who moves house on 23rd December? The kind of person who keeps a rabbit in a hutch on a hill, that’s who!
> 
> View attachment 213163


It doesn't look like she's got much of an option in that garden, tbf.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 24, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> It doesn't look like she's got much of an option in that garden, tbf.



It’s flat at the bottom of the garden. She moved it around the hill every couple of days. Maybe her lawnmower is broken?


----------



## hash tag (May 24, 2020)

Crispy said:


> Close. Preston
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Deepdale area - by Preston North End ground I assume.


----------



## Crispy (May 24, 2020)

Yep


----------



## HAL9000 (Jun 7, 2020)




----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 9, 2020)

^^ hope that was full of pillows or toilet rolls. Ouch.

Tesla on autopilot or pillock looking at their phone?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 9, 2020)

HAL9000 said:


>



What a dick.


----------



## T & P (Jun 9, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> ^^ hope that was full of pillows or toilet rolls. Ouch.
> 
> Tesla on autopilot or pillock looking at their phone?


Could be eitther, but given the track record of Teslas on autonomous drive, I wouldn't be surprised if it was that. From the car's POV the lorry would have looked like a big white box so the Tesla computer probably thought it was the horizon, or empty pixels


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 9, 2020)

Wonder if you could develop some kind of paint/surface treatment that would confuse Tesla autopilot systems, kind of like a stealth fighter is with radar? Just to be a dick.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 15, 2020)

Is this Bahnhof Strasse racing to put his beach towels down at Brighton?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 15, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Is this Bahnhof Strasse racing to put his beach towels down at Brighton?




Two have been arrested for that.









						Two men arrested after video showed car going more than 200mph in West Sussex
					

Police traced the black Audi RS6 in the footage and have arrested two 38-year-old men.




					news.sky.com


----------



## Badgers (Jun 15, 2020)

Speeding convictions have increased massively during lockdown 

No doubt in part due to less people on the streets to police but also cunts on empty roads.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 15, 2020)

There is speeding, IE a few MPH over the limit or there is SPEEDING, IE going mental and treating the roads like Brands Hatch.
potentially a great advert for Audi, depending on which side of the fence you are on.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 15, 2020)

200mph is fucking insane, the slightest thing goes wrong and that's a wreck no one walks away from. I would imagine there will be jail time for the driver. Still, does show what an awesome car the RS6 is though...


----------



## T & P (Jun 15, 2020)

I thought all the premium German brands had a gentlemen's agreement to limit the top speed of their vehicles to 155mph? I guess it's not difficult for a mechanic to de-limit it?


----------



## T & P (Jun 15, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 200mph is fucking insane, the slightest thing goes wrong and that's a wreck no one walks away from. I would imagine there will be jail time for the driver. *Still, does show what an awesome car the RS6 is though...*


 Dunno... annoying noise in the cabin once the car reaches the 170 mph mark. Shoddy engineering if you ask me.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 15, 2020)

T & P said:


> I thought all the premium German brands had a gentlemen's agreement to limit the top speed of their vehicles to 155mph? I guess it's not difficult for a mechanic to de-limit it?



Mine is limited to 155, if you get the RS6 Vorsprung version that ups the limit to 178, so guess here someone had de-restricted it.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 15, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Mine is limited to 155, if you get the RS6 Vorspring version that ups the limit to 178, so guess here someone had de-restricted it.


De-Restricting is easy. It's a simple flash job. I've done it for a few boy racers people who were taking their cars on track.


----------



## dervish (Jun 16, 2020)

So they arrested two people? So presumably there was someone else in the car, so no only was he going utterly stupid speeds he was also unnecessarily using his phone at the wheel. 

Weapons grade stupidity.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 25, 2020)

Perhaps not driving standards, couldn't decide on a thread, so we'll pretend it's definitely the bloke's fault who drove into the back of this *20 minute old* Lamborghini that broke down in the outside lane.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 25, 2020)

a strange sense of Deja vu.   Perfect timing.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 30, 2020)




----------



## Badgers (Jun 30, 2020)

hash tag said:


> There is speeding, IE a few MPH over the limit or there is SPEEDING, IE going mental and treating the roads like Brands Hatch.
> potentially a great advert for Audi, depending on which side of the fence you are on.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 30, 2020)

It was him in the 4x4 wot started it

There really are no depths to which some drivers won't stoop


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 30, 2020)

Badgers said:


>



i see the only car in that tweet is a cop car

i wonder how many times cop cars broke the speed limit


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 30, 2020)

hash tag said:


> It was him in the 4x4 wot started it
> 
> There really are no depths to which some drivers won't stoop


you'd hope there were so they can keep eyes on the road


----------



## T & P (Jun 30, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> i see the only car in that tweet is a cop car
> 
> i wonder how many times cop cars broke the speed limit


It's particularly delightful to see them zooming past gridlocked traffic, blue lights blazing, only for for them to turn off the blue lights a quarter of a mile ahead once they've cleared the local traffic jam.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 30, 2020)

T & P said:


> It's particularly delightful to see them zooming past gridlocked traffic, blue lights blazing, only for for them to turn off the blue lights a quarter of a mile ahead once they've cleared the local traffic jam.



Yeah but if Greggs is about to close what other choice do they have?


----------



## hash tag (Jun 30, 2020)

Check out the speeds you can now drive around town, impressive huh? ........... 
Dosen't match the 200+ on the M23 a few weeks ago
Rise in speeding drivers during London lockdown


163mph on a 70mph road
134mph on a 40mph road
110mph on a 30mph road
73mph on a 20mph road


----------



## hash tag (Jul 23, 2020)

PHA








						Guy Ritchie banned from driving for six months
					

Guy Ritchie has been banned from driving for six months after being caught texting behind the wheel of his Range Rover.




					www.contactmusic.com


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 23, 2020)

hash tag said:


> PHA
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not banned for the texting, six points for that, he already had 9 points for other shitty driving behaviour. Arsehole.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 23, 2020)

hash tag said:


> PHA
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From the unpaid wannabe cop...


> London is probably the camera cyclist capital of the world. Last year I think I caught 358 drivers and two cyclists, it only takes a few minutes to submit a video. You just fill out a form online and send it in. You do occasionally have to go to court, I have had to do it maybe five to 10 times.


I have no sympathy for the driver but this GoPro wanker needs to get laid.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 23, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> From the unpaid wannabe cop...
> 
> I have no sympathy for the driver but this GoPro wanker needs to get laid.




I think he's a legend in his own y-fronts, sometimes have to go to court, I have perhaps five to ten times, fucking legend


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 23, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I think he's a legend in his own y-fronts, sometimes have to go to court, I have perhaps five to ten times, fucking legend


Him and his ilk are one of the reasons cyclists are despised so much.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 23, 2020)

I don't want to destroy yet another thread over the cyclists debate only to say there are dozens of other reasons they are not liked.
In my occasional state sanctioned exercise I shout at a cyclist at least once per outing.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 23, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I don't want to destroy yet another thread over the cyclists debate only to say there are dozens of other reasons they are not liked.
> In my occasional state sanctioned exercise I shout at a cyclist at least once per outing.


I did say one of the reasons. Obviously there are lots more.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 23, 2020)

Far from the main reason. If I were still biking, would I have a camera, possibly, in order to sue the Bastards that hit me. Maybe to shame Somone on line but not to take them to court.


----------



## T & P (Jul 23, 2020)

I’m actually surprised that that two cyclists were fined/ prosecuted as a result of that bloke submitting video evidence of their wrongdoing.

It must have been something particularly fucked up because the real trick (in London at least) is to go on a journey and film a cyclist who doesn’t violate the Highway Code, certainly when red lights are concerned-  or to see a copper take action over it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 24, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Far from the main reason. If I were still biking, would I have a camera, possibly, in order to sue the Bastards that hit me. Maybe to shame Somone on line but not to take them to court.




How would you sue them without taking them to court?


----------



## hash tag (Jul 24, 2020)

I would only use evidence in the event of an accident, not to call out a law breaker.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 24, 2020)

T & P said:


> I’m actually surprised that that two cyclists were fined/ prosecuted as a result of that bloke submitting video evidence of their wrongdoing.
> 
> It must have been something particularly fucked up because the real trick (in London at least) is to go on a journey and film a cyclist who doesn’t violate the Highway Code, certainly when red lights are concerned-  or to see a copper take action over it.



If you submitted that video evidence in the same way as people do for drivers, you should get FPNs/prosecutions. Certainly remember someone who submitted some video of some dangerous driving which also showed themselves (the video submitter) going through a red light getting done for jumping a red (no point in trying to find the article about it as the articles were about the driver and just mentioned the cyclist being fined irrc). Why wouldn't the police prosecute? it's easy money / stats for them when it's just video evidence. More effort for a copper to do something in the moment even if they happen to be around when it happens but when they just need to watch some video and send off an FPN, it must be well worth their time.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 24, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I would only use evidence in the event of an accident, not to call out a law breaker.



What if someone was driving really badly and it was a near miss only because you were able to take evasive action? Do you not think that stopping dangerous drivers before they cause a collision is a good thing?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 24, 2020)

Yeah, seems fair


----------



## Badgers (Jul 24, 2020)

If (well known cunt) Guy Ritchie had been on his phone and hit/killed one of your family members would you want that camera footage or is the cyclist still a scab?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 24, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> From the unpaid wannabe cop...
> 
> I have no sympathy for the driver but this GoPro wanker needs to get laid.



He's too busy lurking in this bush by Regent's Park:


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 24, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> From the unpaid wannabe cop...
> 
> I have no sympathy for the driver but this GoPro wanker needs to get laid.


Strange you didn't quote this bit:



> Mr Erp told MailOnline: ''I am empathetic to him and other disqualified drivers. I have to look at myself to judge if I am doing the right thing. My dad was killed by a drink-driver when I was 19, I still remember him, so I feel very strongly about road safety.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 24, 2020)

Badgers said:


> If (well known cunt) Guy Ritchie had been on his phone and hit/killed one of your family members would you want that camera footage or is the cyclist still a scab?


Both.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 24, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> Strange you didn't quote this bit:


What's strange about not quoting something that bears no relevance to my point?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 24, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> What's strange about not quoting something that bears no relevance to my point?


How is it not relevant that his dad got killed by a shitty driver and yet his supposed lack of a sex life is the reason why he does it?.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 24, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> How is it not relevant that his dad got killed by a shitty driver and yet his supposed lack of a sex life is the reason why he does it?.


He isn't sat outside pubs. He does it because he's a wanker.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 24, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> He does it because he's a wanker.


Indeed.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 24, 2020)

BigTom said:


> What if someone was driving really badly and it was a near miss only because you were able to take evasive action? Do you not think that stopping dangerous drivers before they cause a collision is a good thing?


Nope. There was/is not enough time in my world to do that. In my time I had many near misses and on the whole, shrugged my shoulders and got on with things. Sad, but true.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 25, 2020)

👋


----------



## Badgers (Jul 25, 2020)




----------



## Badgers (Jul 30, 2020)

Bit of sledging, no harm done.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 30, 2020)

While there's no doubt Warne is a cunt the problem here is the system that allows this bullshit and the lawyers who help shit drivers keep driving.

Warne's lawyer is arguing 'exceptional hardship' which seems unlikely as I doubt the fucker has to do any work for a living.


----------



## dessiato (Jul 30, 2020)

I had my driving medical last Monday. It took maybe 30 minutes including paperwork. The coordination test and speed awareness tests were done on a computer so old it had a CRT screen and a floppy drive. I passed. I can now have a Spanish licence, depending on DVLA getting their act together.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 30, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> While there's no doubt Warne is a cunt the problem here is the system that allows this bullshit and the lawyers who help shit drivers keep driving.
> 
> Warne's lawyer is arguing 'exceptional hardship' which seems unlikely as I doubt the fucker has to do any work for a living.



Given Warne was lucky enough to enjoy a few seasons in the very lucrative IPL at the end of his stella career hardship does seem highly unlikely.  I suppose he may have gambled it all away.  I wonder what his lawyer's fees are?  Given he's so broke and all that.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 30, 2020)

dessiato said:


> I had my driving medical last Monday. It took maybe 30 minutes including paperwork. The coordination test and speed awareness tests were done on a computer so old it had a CRT screen and a floppy drive. I passed. I can now have a Spanish licence, depending on DVLA getting their act together.


I'm impressed. Is this for a big standard driving licence, not a PSV or HGV or similar?


----------



## dessiato (Jul 30, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I'm impressed. Is this for a big standard driving licence, not a PSV or HGV or similar?


Just for car and car+trailer. I decided not to keep my 7,5 tonne truck, or mini-bus licences because I’ve not driven either for over 30 years. I don’t, therefore, know if that would have made a difference.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 30, 2020)

War on drivers who put cyclists at risk as London bike numbers surge
					

Police today vowed a new clampdown on dangerous drivers who put the cyclists’ lives at risk on London’s roads.




					www.standard.co.uk


----------



## dervish (Jul 31, 2020)

We drove from Bristol to London yesterday along that endless 50mph limit that goes on for miles and miles and miles. Obviously the vast majority of people kept to 50 or close to but there were at least three people that didn't seem to give a shit about the limit and blasted down at 80+. Apart from that when you are pootling along happily every now and then you get someone who is obviously doing 60 or so going past. Do these people get away with it? Do they not care? 

And more to the point, I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket from speeding in a average speed limit zone, does it actually happen?


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 31, 2020)

dervish said:


> We drove from Bristol to London yesterday along that endless 50mph limit that goes on for miles and miles and miles. Obviously the vast majority of people kept to 50 or close to but there were at least three people that didn't seem to give a shit about the limit and blasted down at 80+. Apart from that when you are pootling along happily every now and then you get someone who is obviously doing 60 or so going past. Do these people get away with it? Do they not care?
> 
> And more to the point, I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket from speeding in a average speed limit zone, does it actually happen?



50 on your speedo means you're probably actually doing something like 45-48. Meanwhile others know they can happily do 50+10%+2 = 57 without being fined. So that's 10mph faster than you.


----------



## dervish (Jul 31, 2020)

Well yeah, I know that, but even with that taken into account I should have heard of someone who has been caught by an average speed camera. And when I say 50, I was actually doing 50 as read from my gps, so they were doing over the limit, and there are so many people doing it surely you'd hear about more people getting done. 

I get the impression that they know that 98% of people are doing a sensible speed even if not exactly 50 so I would think the limit is actually set a bit higher to catch to total twats that go stupid speeds. Would like to know for sure though. I also read that not all the cameras are used for the speed calculations, often it will be mast 1 and 3 then 4-6 etc, so maybe people just know the route and know which ones they can get away with. 

But still I would have thought that amongst all the people I have asked, quite a few who have been on speed awareness courses not one has ever heard of someone being done on a average speed trap. 


Investigations will continue.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 31, 2020)

dervish said:


> We drove from Bristol to London yesterday along that endless 50mph limit that goes on for miles and miles and miles. Obviously the vast majority of people kept to 50 or close to but there were at least three people that didn't seem to give a shit about the limit and blasted down at 80+. Apart from that when you are pootling along happily every now and then you get someone who is obviously doing 60 or so going past. Do these people get away with it? Do they not care?
> 
> And more to the point, I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket from speeding in a average speed limit zone, does it actually happen?


Yes, got done on the A12 I think , in Suffolk somewhere ,  can't remember the details (was about 10 years ago) but it was exceeding the average speed .


----------



## T & P (Jul 31, 2020)

For those wanting put the foot down for a brief period of time in an average speed zone, it is relatively easy to do so and not get caught. If you remember where the cameras are, you could keep within the limit for most of the time, and then between a given set of cameras you could put your foot down quite a bit for a brief period of time, and then compensate by going below the speed limit until the next camera, by which time your average speed between the previous camera and the current one should have come down to within the legal limit. If you're good with maths and don't fuck it up, that is.


----------



## Winot (Jul 31, 2020)

T & P said:


> For those wanting put the foot down for a brief period of time in an average speed zone, it is relatively easy to do so and not get caught. If you remember where the cameras are, you could keep within the limit for most of the time, and then between a given set of cameras you could put your foot down quite a bit for a brief period of time, and then compensate by going below the speed limit until the next camera, by which time your average speed between the previous camera and the current one should have come down to within the legal limit. If you're good with maths and don't fuck it up, that is.



So you end up going at the same average speed as someone who had stuck to the average speed limit, but with a period of going at an unsafe speed. Sounds like really great driving.


----------



## T & P (Jul 31, 2020)

Winot said:


> So you end up going at the same average speed as someone who had stuck to the average speed limit, but with a period of going at an unsafe speed. Sounds like really great driving.


Not advocating it myself, and have never done it or have any inclination to. It is certainly a stupid thing to do. I was just answering the question upthread about what's the deal with drivers you see zooming past you on an average speed zone.


----------



## dervish (Jul 31, 2020)

Yeah, I did consider that, but there are more than I would expect doing faster speeds than I would expect to not see more people getting done for it. 
And yeah, it does amuse me to see people who still stick the brakes on just when they get to a camera, as if it will cancel out the 10+ mph they were doing beforehand.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 31, 2020)

The late great 23dom got done by average speed cameras on the M27 in roadworks. Bang out of order fining an Audi driver.

Oh and hash tag, you will no doubt be happy to hear that Frau Bahn has had another NIP arrive...


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 31, 2020)

I suspect those doing 80-odd are some of those twats that register their car to a fake address and then just drive how the fuck they like. I know there was a lot of that going on a few years ago, don’t know if it’s been clamped down on at all.


----------



## T & P (Jul 31, 2020)

In toll motorways in France you can get done if your time between your entry and exit junctions shows you must have been going too fast. I suspect there might be cameras now as well, but yesteryear when there weren’t, some bikers would allegedly travel at propah nawty speeds throughout then stop and have a leisurely coffee at a services just before their exit until it was okay to leave time-wise.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 1, 2020)

T & P said:


> For those wanting put the foot down for a brief period of time in an average speed zone, it is relatively easy to do so and not get caught. If you remember where the cameras are, you could keep within the limit for most of the time, and then between a given set of cameras you could put your foot down quite a bit for a brief period of time, and then compensate by going below the speed limit until the next camera, by which time your average speed between the previous camera and the current one should have come down to within the legal limit. If you're good with maths and don't fuck it up, that is.



I'm pretty sure that won't work, as they will do you for exceeding the average speed between any two pairs of cameras, not along the whole length of the average speed section. So you could exceed the speed limit for half of the distance between two cameras, then drive below the speed limit for the other half, if for some reason that seemed like a good idea?









						How average speed cameras work - and how to avoid a fine
					

How do average speed cameras work - and can you dodge a speeding ticket by changing lanes?




					www.devonlive.com
				






> *Will I be fined lots of times if I speed through multiple sets in the same stretch?*
> Probably not. Only certain cameras in the sequence are 'paired', so your speed may be compared between the first and fourth camera of four in a row. Or the second and fourth. Or second and third.
> 
> Any combination is possible so you won't know which ones are actually recording your number plate but you could get fined again on a separate section of the same road.



I don't actually know where that is from, the pretty much the same text is on loads of local papers unsurprisingly so it's a press release from somewhere, but no idea where. Not clear at all if all cameras are on all the time and police can choose any two to pair to check speeds or if only some are on at any given moment and are always paired together for everyone.
But regardless, unless you somehow know which cameras are running and paired, which you can't reasonably know, then you need to assume any cameras can be paired and that ruins your plan.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2020)

dervish said:


> We drove from Bristol to London yesterday along that endless 50mph limit that goes on for miles and miles and miles. Obviously the vast majority of people kept to 50 or close to but there were at least three people that didn't seem to give a shit about the limit and blasted down at 80+. Apart from that when you are pootling along happily every now and then you get someone who is obviously doing 60 or so going past. Do these people get away with it? Do they not care?
> 
> And more to the point, I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket from speeding in a average speed limit zone, does it actually happen?



Considering how hard it seems to be to actually get caught speeding, these people with multiple speeding convictions who get let off driving bans, they must just be speeding constantly. Anyone so arrogant that they think their inclination to hurtle about everywhere for their own amusement is more important than the safety of others should not be driving.


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## hash tag (Aug 1, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The late great 23dom got done by average speed cameras on the M27 in roadworks. Bang out of order fining an Audi driver.
> 
> Oh and hash tag, you will no doubt be happy to hear that Frau Bahn has had another NIP arrive...


Not sure what to say; how does she manage it. She has long since exhausted the speed awareness courses?
They way she is going, she will end up with a ban before much longer.
Get her an old car that cant go that fast, a Morris Minor or a van with a speed limiter on it!
Perhaps advanced driving lessons or a day behind the wheel with Mrs tag


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 1, 2020)

The three years is up in early September, the notice came to me and I have 28 days to grass her up, I shall send that back at the last minute, they then write to her and she has 28 days, by which time the three years should be up. 36 in a 30 on a four lane dual carriageway in Epsom this time.


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## hash tag (Aug 1, 2020)

speeding is speeding.
The baby BB's could lose their taxi driver if she is not careful.


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## quiet guy (Aug 1, 2020)

It's not always the fact that all the average speed cameras in a set are active. Sometime it can be 1st and 3rd or any other combination.


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## marty21 (Aug 1, 2020)

I had my first experience of a zero emissions zone , at the time I had no idea I was in (and shouldn't have been in ) a zero emissions zone. This was revealed to me a week later when I got off with a warning , rather than them trousering a £130 fine


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The three years is up in early September, the notice came to me and I have 28 days to grass her up, I shall send that back at the last minute, they then write to her and she has 28 days, by which time the three years should be up. 36 in a 30 on a four lane dual carriageway in Epsom this time.



I don't suppose driving within the speed limit is in any way an option?


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## Badgers (Aug 1, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't suppose driving within the speed limit is in any way an option?


Crazy talk


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## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> I suspect those doing 80-odd are some of those twats that register their car to a fake address and then just drive how the fuck they like.


The motorway limit should be 80-90mph. For modern cars in good conditions 70mph is far too slow and feels it, which is why everyone ignores it. Drive at 70mph on a motorway in clear weather and you will be being constantly overtaken. People ignore rules that don't make sense and they know that 70mph is not enforced on motorways so they'll drive at around 80mph which feels correct and won't get you a ticket. Much faster than that and it's a good idea to know the roads and the type and locations of the enforcement.

I've never been done in an average speed check either but those are usually through roadworks and similar which is sensible, so I'm quite diligent with them anyway.


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## hash tag (Aug 1, 2020)

Its not about the cars though, its about their weakest link, the nut behind the wheel. Besides, raise the speed limit to 90 and people will drive at 110. 
Speed limits through roadworks is now 60.


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## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2020)

marty21 said:


> I had my first experience of a zero emissions zone , at the time I had no idea I was in (and shouldn't have been in ) a zero emissions zone. This was revealed to me a week later when I got off with a warning , rather than them trousering a £130 fine View attachment 224573



I didn't know they had done that there. It's probably fair enough given that Beech Street is effectively just a tunnel underneath the Barbican. What was the signing like though. You shouldn't be able to find yourself on a street like that without first being given plenty of notice of where it is and how to avoid it.


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## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Its not about the cars though, its about their weakest link, the nut behind the wheel. Besides, raise the speed limit to 90 and people will drive at 110.


This has been proven to be nonsense time and time again. It's this silly notion that people exceed the speed limit because they want to break the law, or that they treat speed limits as suggestions rather than maximums. Both are untrue. Most people drive faster than the limit because they think it's safe to do so. There were some studies posted here not too long ago that showed that when limits are increased or removed, people don't automatically drive much faster. The average speed gets slightly higher but nothing like your suggestions.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Most people drive faster than the limit because they think it's safe to do so.



People think a lot of stupid shit though. Policy should be dictated by the thoughts of people who actually know what they're on about, not just any cunt with an opinion.


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## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> People think a lot of stupid shit though. Policy should be dictated by the thoughts of people who actually know what they're on about, not just any cunt with an opinion.


Yes, but as usual Plank, you don't know what you're talking about. Increases to motorway limits have been proposed for some time now and are based on scientific evaluations of road usage rather than 'any cunt with an opinion' which, therefore, fortunately excludes your know-nothing witterings on the subject. Limits are now being increased acoss the network. 









						Motorway roadworks speed limit to be raised in England
					

The increase from 50mph to 60mph in England is intended to ease driver "frustrations".



					www.bbc.co.uk
				











						Motorway speed limit cuts to curb pollution
					

Sections of motorway in England and Wales have lower speed limits in an effort to reduce harmful emissions.




					www.confused.com
				











						M11 speed limit set to increase as part of major road changes in England
					

Highways England have confirmed the changes will be implemented in places where it's safe for both road workers and drivers




					www.cambridge-news.co.uk


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2020)

'Motorway roadworks speed limit to be raised to ease driver frustrations'

If you're frustrated by the idea of slowing down to ensure the safety of road maintenance workers and this frustration is so severe that it affects your driving, then you shouldn't be driving.

Other recent changes to motorway use such as 'smart motorways' letting people using the hard shoulder to ease traffic have already cost lives. It is a mistake to assume that those making these policies are prioritising safety. Any increase in speed limits will cost lives, because of maths. If stopping distances go up, and thinking distances go up, and impact energy goes up, and reaction time remains constant, then the number and severity of accidents will go up. People ignoring existing speed limits is an argument for purging those people from the roads, not for just letting them have their way.


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## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Any increase in speed limits will cost lives, because of maths.


This just isn't necessarily true. For example, quicker average speeds have reduced instances of lane changing to overtake, which is when most accidents occur. Vehicle technology has increased substantially blah, blah ... The thing is that when many of the safety metrics are taken on UK motorways the data sets are already measuring vehicles travelling faster than 70mph. The majority of motorway drivers are _already_ driving at over 70mph so all that will largely change is that they won't be breaking the law any more. The most sensible reason not to increase the limit is an emissions  one, but again, people are already driving at these speeds and electric and hybrid vehicles are becoming the norm too so no reason to believe that emissions would substantially increase.

Fortunately the current mass changes to speed limits across the country indicate that at last some sense is being made and that hopefully the resistance to a sensible increase in the NSL will begin to wane.


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## Saul Goodman (Aug 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Besides, raise the speed limit to 90 and people will drive at 110.


 This is nonsense. People drive at a speed that feels right. 80 - 90 mph feels right on most motorways. 
The safest speed is most likely the speed that people feel comfortable at. It's the speed where you're not constantly looking at your speedo, a speed limit your mind automatically adheres to.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2020)

> Findings also showed drivers were more likely to stay within the higher speed limit.



Wow, they're blowing my mind with this level of science. 

In other science news, it has been found that drink driving can be reduced by raising the drink driving limit. And the murder rate can be reduced by redefining 'murder' as killing four or more people.


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## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Wow, they're blowing my mind with this level of science.
> 
> In other science news, it has been found that drink driving can be reduced by raising the drink driving limit. And the murder rate can be reduced by redefining 'murder' as killing four or more people.



 Dear oh dear. Even for you this is spectacularly dumb. All they're doing there is refuting hash tag's earlier suggestion that people will always exceed the speed limit.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2020)

What are some other laws that should be set according to the standards of behaviour which the lowest common denominator can be bothered to uphold?


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## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> What are some other laws that should be set according to the standards of behaviour which the lowest common denominator can be bothered to uphold?


 I've a feeling we might run out of facepalms today!


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## hash tag (Aug 1, 2020)

The majority of drivers do break the speed limit. Try travelling at 70 on a motorway...only lorries will go slower.
Virtually no one obeys the 20 limits in my neck of the woods, even on side roads, where its more important to obey them.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 1, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't suppose driving within the speed limit is in any way an option?



Clearly not, seeing as the speed limit on that road was set wrong in the first place.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 1, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> This has been proven to be nonsense time and time again. It's this silly notion that people exceed the speed limit because they want to break the law, or that they treat speed limits as suggestions rather than maximums. Both are untrue. Most people drive faster than the limit because they think it's safe to do so. There were some studies posted here not too long ago that showed that when limits are increased or removed, people don't automatically drive much faster. The average speed gets slightly higher but nothing like your suggestions.



I have just spent three hours on the Autobahns, much of which was derestricted, stuck at 140kph most of the way, was in no way tempted to join the ton-up crew, was plenty fast enough for me.


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## Saul Goodman (Aug 1, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Clearly not, seeing as the speed limit on that road was set wrong in the first place.


It was set at a time when cars had drum brakes, cross-ply tyres and no ABS, and stopping distances were twice as long.
Anyone who thinks 70mph is a high enough limit for motorways is the sort of person who has a self-congratulatory wank when they get a letter printed in curtain twitchers weekly.


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## hash tag (Aug 1, 2020)

Some people drive far to close on motorways and they are very crowded. People dont have enough respect to raise the speeds.
on my 100 mile journey down from Derby last Monday we saw at least 3 accidents including a white Porsche SUV on its roof. Germany the roads are a lot more open, the drivers more respectful.


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## dessiato (Aug 1, 2020)

I use my Tom Tom because it gives a readout of my average speed when driving on  the autovía with average cameras. It's a very useful reminder.

One big advantage of living in Spain is that there are very few cameras, although that is changing.

Ultimately though, driving within your ability is the safest option.


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## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Germany the roads are a lot more open, the drivers more respectful.



It depends what you're comparing Germany with. Certain stretches of autobahn are better than certain stretches of UK motorway and vice versa. There's no way you can draw a blanket conclusion that German roads are more open and people more respectful. In my experience motorway discipline in the UK is generally pretty good, notwithstanding the odd bit of fuckwittery, but you get that everywhere. 

There are approximately double the number of fatalities per million miles travelled on German autobahns as there are on British motorways.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Germany the roads are a lot more open, the drivers more respectful.



The physical roads are nowhere near as good as in the U.K. and tailgating, flashing lights is accepted as the norm. There is a style to German driving that would cause riots in the U.K., as result of that is they have good lane discipline unlike the U.K., but the general style is aggressive as fuck. Works for me of course, an Audi driver who has hired a large BMW...


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## Saul Goodman (Aug 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Germany ... the drivers more respectful.


🤣
Admit it, you've never been to Germany, have you?


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## Dogsauce (Aug 3, 2020)

Do they still have any cobbled sections of motorways in the east? Did a few tours out that way in the late 90s and it was all a bit rudimentary. Sat on equipment in the back of a Bedford CF2 juddering over concrete roads that probably hadn’t been maintained since Hitler built them. Don’t think you’d have found anyone tonning it on those roads.


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## marty21 (Aug 3, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I didn't know they had done that there. It's probably fair enough given that Beech Street is effectively just a tunnel underneath the Barbican. What was the signing like though. You shouldn't be able to find yourself on a street like that without first being given plenty of notice of where it is and how to avoid it.


Didn't see the signs   , I'll go back at some point and have a look , if I'd got the £130 fine I'd have gone straight back for appeal purposes 😀


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## Badgers (Aug 3, 2020)

Bloody cyclist should have had a hi-vis on 









						Cyclist run over 'in deliberate attack' - BBC News
					

The victim was left with serious injuries to his arm and leg, police said.




					www.bbc.co.uk


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## hash tag (Aug 3, 2020)

Shouldnt cycle on the pavement


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## Badgers (Aug 3, 2020)




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## sleaterkinney (Aug 12, 2020)

Go through a red light and kill someone = six months jail, suspended sentence. He’s appealing the driving ban.








						Family of teacher killed in crash speak of hurt as driver appeals ban
					

The family of a school teacher killed by a delivery driver today spoke of their hurt as he launched a court appeal to overturn a 10-year driving ban.




					www.standard.co.uk


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## hash tag (Aug 12, 2020)

He caused a death by his driving...perhaps a 10 year jail sentence would have been more appropriate.
Should anyone who kills someone as a result of "poor" driving not recieve a life ban?


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## hash tag (Aug 17, 2020)

Speed cameras are of course all about road safety
 Speed camera van crashes through garden hedge


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## Badgers (Aug 17, 2020)

Going well then... 









						Hit-And-Run Motorist Forces Temporary Closure Of Cambridge’s Dutch-Style Roundabout
					

A hit-and-run motorist has crashed into a Belisha beacon on the newly opened Fendon Road roundabout in Cambridge.




					www.forbes.com


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## Badgers (Aug 17, 2020)




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## Badgers (Aug 17, 2020)




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## hash tag (Aug 17, 2020)

That looks like a livestock trailer. I hope that was empty at the time.


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## Badgers (Aug 17, 2020)




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## hash tag (Aug 17, 2020)

I think thats local


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## Dogsauce (Aug 17, 2020)

Badgers said:


>




looks like a private plate. No surprises there.


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## Badgers (Aug 19, 2020)




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## cupid_stunt (Aug 19, 2020)

Safer driving could be coming.   









						Self-driving cars could be allowed on UK motorways next year
					

Industry welcomes consultation for use of technology in slow lane, but risk concerns some




					www.theguardian.com


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## Badgers (Aug 19, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Safer driving could be coming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Should be affordable to about 10% of people in around 15-20 years


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## BigTom (Aug 19, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Should be affordable to about 10% of people in around 15-20 years



This is just for tesla autopilot level stuff as far as I can see, automated driving that keeps it in lane / maintains speed/distance relative to other traffic in the lane.


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## Badgers (Aug 19, 2020)

Inside lane of motorways only?


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## Teaboy (Aug 19, 2020)

Badgers said:


>




This doesn't surprise me in the slightest.  in London a lot of the time the main reason don't speed is because they can't due to weight of traffic.  Once all that traffic was taken off the road quite a few just decided speed limits no longer applied.  For some wankers (mainly in Golf's for some reason) lockdown roads were to be treated as a racetrack.


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## Badgers (Aug 19, 2020)




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## Spymaster (Aug 19, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Inside lane of motorways only?


Yes. The "slow lane" according to The Guardian.  I wasn't aware that the speed limit is lower in that lane.

Apparently they'll just slow down to the speed of the vehicle in front and maintain the distance so you'll have a line of bellends in robot cars all doing 50 behind a cement mixer.


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## hash tag (Aug 19, 2020)

Badgers said:


>



Its drivers who are the main cause of death on the roads.


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## Saul Goodman (Aug 19, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Its drivers who are the main cause of death on the roads.


Deceleration is the main cause of death on the roads.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 19, 2020)

Badgers said:


>




Away and arrest all those pricks with 200mph 'sports cars' then.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 19, 2020)

Drove from Weymouth to Godalming today in pissing rain all the way. Interesting to note that on the three lane sections of the M3 the inside lane is basically not used by anyone, plus no one seemed to adjust their speed cos of the lashing rain. All good stuff...


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## Badgers (Aug 19, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Away and arrest all those pricks with 200mph 'sports cars' then.


Tbf he has done a pretty good job of that if you follow him on twitter.


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## Teaboy (Aug 19, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Drove from Weymouth to Godalming today in pissing rain all the way. Interesting to note that on the three lane sections of the M3 the inside lane is basically not used by anyone, plus no one seemed to adjust their speed cos of the lashing rain. All good stuff...



Hey, get out of my own private lane.  I had assumed it was put aside just for me to use.


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## hash tag (Aug 19, 2020)

The law about keeping left when not overtaking has been quickly forgotton.


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## T & P (Aug 19, 2020)

hash tag said:


> The law about keeping left when not overtaking has been quickly forgotton.


In certain combinations of traffic density and flow on motorways, it is all but impossible (or at least, nothing less than absurd) to try to adhere to it, tbh...


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## hash tag (Aug 20, 2020)

In my experience few people drive at a straight 70 on motorways. If you stuck at that on the inside lane, there are not many you could overtake while the majority of drivers would pass you. Besides, over 100 miles, the time saving between 65mph and 70 is just a few minutes. Are you really in that much of a hurry that you need to sit in the middle lane in the hope that you can maintain the national speed limit?
it intrigues me as to how empty the inside lane often is, what with people crowding into the overtaking lanes.


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## Badgers (Aug 20, 2020)

Cyclist, 15, left with fractured skull after east London hit-and-run
					

A teenage cyclist was left with a fractured skull after being knocked down by a hit-and-run driver in east London.




					www.standard.co.uk


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## Badgers (Aug 20, 2020)

Lincoln man spared jail after killing cycling RAF officer in crash
					

BMW driver didn't see the cyclist




					thelincolnite.co.uk


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## Badgers (Aug 20, 2020)




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## sleaterkinney (Aug 20, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Lincoln man spared jail after killing cycling RAF officer in crash
> 
> 
> BMW driver didn't see the cyclist
> ...


He actually admitted death by careless driving and got a bit of community work and a one year driving ban.


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## Badgers (Aug 21, 2020)




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## Badgers (Aug 21, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> He actually admitted death by careless driving and got a bit of community work and a one year driving ban.


Disgustingly small punishment for what he did


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> He actually admitted death by careless driving and got a bit of community work and a one year driving ban.



Death through careless driving often doesn't lead to prison, pitiful punishment, driving a car you have a duty to be careful or else you can kill, so when you fail to take care and you kill there should be a proper punishment for those actions, would encourage others to be more careful too.

Plus this one was on the phone at the time, via one of those Bluetooth jobs that dickhead estate agents and so on wear on their ears. They are legal, as are ones inbuilt to the car, but hugely distracting and really should be made illegal, as should in car music players that lift tunes off your phone which actively encourage you to read a screen as you scroll through playlists, that can not be done safely when the car is in motion.


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## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Death through careless driving often doesn't lead to prison, pitiful punishment, driving a car you have a duty to be careful or else you can kill, so when you fail to take care and you kill there should be a proper punishment for those actions, would encourage others to be more careful too.
> 
> Plus this one was on the phone at the time, via one of those Bluetooth jobs that dickhead estate agents and so on wear on their ears. They are legal, as are ones inbuilt to the car, but hugely distracting and really should be made illegal, as should in car music players that lift tunes off your phone which actively encourage you to read a screen as you scroll through playlists, that can not be done safely when the car is in motion.


It's been proven that hands free phone conversations are every bit as distracting and dangerous as holding the phone to your ear.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> It's been proven that hands free phone conversations are every bit as distracting and dangerous as holding the phone to your ear.



We have it in our car and I find it even more distracting than when I held a phone to my ear back in the bad old days, at least then you had one hand off the wheel so you did try to concentrate a bit harder, now a huge part of your concentration goes on the phone call. I have disabled it and the music player thing, Frau Bahn had a shunt whilst selecting tunes, up a copper's chuff no less, only 5mph but that could easily have been a child.


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## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> We have it in our car and I find it even more distracting than when I held a phone to my ear back in the bad old days, at least then you had one hand off the wheel so you did try to concentrate a bit harder, now a huge part of your concentration goes on the phone call. I have disabled it and the music player thing, Frau Bahn had a shunt whilst selecting tunes, up a copper's chuff no less, only 5mph but that could easily have been a child.


I turn my phone off when I get in the car. If someone wants me bad enough they'll call back.
I've been in too many near misses on my bike with people on phones, so I know how distracting they are. What makes it worse is everyone knows how dangerous it is but they still do it. I had a woman pull out from a side street directly into the path of my bike, then she panicked and stopped right in front of me. I stopped an inch from her door, just as she was throwing her phone onto the passenger seat. I got off the bike to politely explain that this is why she shouldn't be using a phone whilst driving, and she lost the plot, started screaming at me and vehemently denied being on the phone, when I'd just seen her holding it to her head before throwing it onto the passenger seat. You can't educate these people, so a hefty sentence is the only answer. It should be treated exactly the same as drink driving, with prison sentences handed out for repeat offenders.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Killer roads: Why Thailand has one of the worst death rates from driving in the world
					

Killer roads: Why Thailand has one of the worst death rates from driving in the world




					news.sky.com
				




62 people die every day on Thailand's roads, similar population to the UK...


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## hash tag (Aug 21, 2020)

I really don't think some people appreciate how dangerous these things are, if they did, why do they do it, Especially parents with children in the car. Still as long as they and their children are ok, they dont really need to consider others. I to think infotainment systems, the use of, is dangerous. They have so many functions these days. To find your way around some bits can require much thought and distraction. My car, the touch screen wont work above a certain speed. In the brand new VW at work, the whole range of things on the screen will work at any speed


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## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Death through careless driving often doesn't lead to prison, pitiful punishment, driving a car you have a duty to be careful or else you can kill, so when you fail to take care and you kill there should be a proper punishment for those actions, would encourage others to be more careful too.
> 
> Plus this one was on the phone at the time, via one of those Bluetooth jobs that dickhead estate agents and so on wear on their ears. They are legal, as are ones inbuilt to the car, but hugely distracting and really should be made illegal, as should in car music players that lift tunes off your phone which actively encourage you to read a screen as you scroll through playlists, that can not be done safely when the car is in motion.


I disagree with this and think the sentencing is about right in this case. Tragic as it is, the driver wasn't doing anything illegal, had a completely clean record, and clearly showed utter remorse. Unfortunately accidents happen. Punishing people as if they were guilty of far greater culpability doesn't make much sense. The bloke's going to have to live with the consequences for the rest of his life and as the judge said, there's no evidence that the phone conversation contributed to the accident. These boards are hilarious sometimes. Liberal tosspots soft as fuck on all other criminal activity but when it comes to drivers it's string 'em up time!


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## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> These boards are hilarious sometimes. Liberal tosspots soft as fuck on all other criminal activity but when it comes to drivers it's string 'em up time!


It is a bit weird when people are applauding armed robbers, then suggesting motorists should be incarcerated for parking on the pavement.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I disagree with this and think the sentencing is about right in this case. Tragic as it is, the driver wasn't doing anything illegal,



He was doing something illegal and as a result of his illegal activities a man is dead. Accidents don't just happen, every single one has a cause, in this case it was the driver's careless driving.


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## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> He was doing something illegal ...


What?


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## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> He was doing something illegal and as a result of his illegal activities a man is dead. Accidents don't just happen, every single one has a cause, in this case it was the driver's careless driving.


Was he doing something illegal? If the use of hands free is legal, then the resulting distraction shouldn't be illegal.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> What?



He was doing something illegal. That was why the CPS prosecuted him. This is basic stuff.


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## hash tag (Aug 21, 2020)

Doing anything behind the wheel that causes a distraction is technically illegal, hence people have been fined for eating biscuits while driving.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> He was doing something illegal.


What was he doing that was illegal? He admitted careless driving, probably because he seems like a decent bloke and didn't want to put the family through more grief with a not guilty plea. But even the judge said that there's no evidence that the phonecall caused the accident.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Was he doing something illegal? If the use of hands free is legal, then the resulting distraction shouldn't be illegal.




He was driving without due care and attention, which is illegal, as a result of this illegal activity he committed the offence of causing death by careless driving.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> What was he doing that was illegal? He admitted careless driving,



Careless driving is driving without due care and attention which is a motoring offence.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> He was driving without due care and attention, which is illegal, as a result of this illegal activity he committed the offence of causing death by careless driving.


Yet it was a legal activity that resulted in the illegal activity. Hence my stance on hands free phone operation.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Careless driving is driving without due care and attention which is a motoring offence.


I know. And he's been punished appropriately for that because he admitted it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Yet it was a legal activity that resulted in the illegal activity. Hence my stance on hands free phone operation.



We don't know if the phone call was responsible for the careless driving, the syphilitic cunt in a tights and a wig said not.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> We don't know if the phone call was responsible for the careless driving, the syphilitic cunt in a tights and a wig said not.


He said there's no evidence that it was, but how could there possibly be evidence to prove that it was? And given that the phone call was the only possible source of distraction at the time, it's the obvious cause.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I know. And he's been punished appropriately for that.



And it is my contention that the appropriate punishment proscribed by law is far to lenient when weighed up against the harm caused. If this kind of thing resulted in ten years prison perhaps more people would take more care when hurtling around in their cars. The article linked up this page about Thailand specifically states it is the lack of proper punishment there for motoring offences that is causing the carnage on their roads.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> He said there's no evidence that it was, but how could there possibly be evidence to prove that it was? And given that the phone call was the only possible source of distraction at the time, it's the obvious cause.



That maybe so, but the illegal act was being careless/driving without due care and attention, whether that was down to the phone call or him eating a biscuit is irrelevant.


----------



## Winot (Aug 21, 2020)

CPS are notorious for pulling their punches and pleading careless driving rather than dangerous driving because it’s easier to get a conviction.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> And it is my contention that the appropriate punishment proscribed by law is far to lenient when weighed up against the harm caused.


I know it is. I disagree. Intent and recklessness/dangerousness should be the primary factors in sentencing. If this had been a death resulting from any other accident, you and others on here would be bending over backwards to lighten the sentence. But because it's a driver the sentence is too lenient.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Winot said:


> CPS are notorious for pulling their punches and pleading careless driving rather than dangerous driving because it’s easier to get a conviction.


They go for careless driving because it's impossible to defend. If you so much as clip a kerb whilst parking, that's careless driving. Dangerous driving is a different animal, and it's hard to prove intent where there was none.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I know it is. I disagree. Intent and recklessness/dangerousness should be the primary factors in sentencing. If this had been a death resulting from any other accident, you and others on here would be bending over backwards to lighten the sentence. But because it's a driver the sentence is too lenient.



If he had been shooting stags but was loosing off rounds willy nilly and killed someone I would expect him to face a serious charge. When you are in charge of something that can be lethal you have a duty to take care.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

I always wonder why hitman go to such extravagant lengths to carry out their contract.  Should just run the mark over.  Spray a bit of water into your eyes before you walk into the court, tell everyone how terribly sorry you are.  Walk out of the court with a couple of months of painting over graffiti to look forward to and 6 months free AA membership.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> If he had been shooting stags but was loosing off rounds willy nilly and killed someone I would expect him to face a serious charge. When you are in charge of something that can be lethal you have a duty to take care.


If he'd been shooting stags and a bullet ricocheted and killed someone?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> And it is my contention that the appropriate punishment proscribed by law is far to lenient when weighed up against the harm caused. If this kind of thing resulted in ten years prison perhaps more people would take more care when hurtling around in their cars. The article linked up this page about Thailand specifically states it is the lack of proper punishment there for motoring offences that is causing the carnage on their roads.


You said earlier that Frau Bahn ran up the back of a plod car, but it could easily have been a child. Should she have got a 10 year stretch?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> You said earlier that Frau Bahn ran up the back of a plod car, but it could easily have been a child. Should she have got a 10 year stretch?


Or if the the accident resulted in the death of someone in the cop car?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> You said earlier that Frau Bahn ran up the back of a plod car, but it could easily have been a child. Should she have got a 10 year stretch?



If she had killed, yes she should as she knew exactly how dangerous her actions were and she made a choice to do them anyway.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Or if the the accident resulted in the death of someone in the cop car?



As she rear-ended it she could have killed a cuddly drug dealer cuffed up on the way to the pig sty


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> If he'd been shooting stags and a bullet ricocheted and killed someone?



He should not have fired if there was the chance of that happening, so yeah, culpable.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> If she had killed, yes she should as she knew exactly how dangerous her actions were and she made a choice to do them anyway.


But like you said, it's only by sheer luck that it wasn't a child she hit. Surely she should be punished for her actions, rather than the outcome of those actions?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> But like you said, it's only by sheer luck that it wasn't a child she hit. Surely she should be punished for her actions, rather than the outcome of those actions?



As it happens the filth never knew she was fucking around with her phone, but had that come to light she would have been punished for it and the punishment would not have been severe enough under current regulations.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 21, 2020)

Interesting little read Infotainment - The Impact of interacting with Android Auto and Apple CarPlay when driving


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> As it happens the filth never knew she was fucking around with her phone, but had that come to light she would have been punished for it and the punishment would not have been severe enough under current regulations.


10 years would suffice


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 21, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> 10 years would suffice



10 years peace and quiet for me.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 21, 2020)

10 years of taxiying the little people.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 21, 2020)




----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 21, 2020)

hash tag said:


> View attachment 227383


Missed.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 24, 2020)




----------



## hash tag (Aug 26, 2020)

Ill just turn myself in
BBC News - Car crashes into Sparkhill police station








						Car crashes into Sparkhill police station
					

A car ploughs through a wall outside the West Midlands Police base in Sparkhill, Birmingham.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 26, 2020)

Seems I have now got a speeding ticket from Germany...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 26, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse, what speed was you doing & what was the limit?


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 26, 2020)

Saw a cyclist looking at his phone the other night, one hand steering the bike, wobbling all over the place.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 26, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Bahnhof Strasse, what speed was you doing & what was the limit?



As you know there’s no speed limit on many stretches of Autobahn and 130kph on others, well I had a 3ltr BMW, so really fucking went for it...

57kph in a 50


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 26, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> Saw a cyclist looking at his phone the other night, one hand steering the bike, wobbling all over the place.



I see so many cyclists doing that and it pisses me right off.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 26, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> I see so many cyclists doing that and it pisses me right off.



Bicycles are popular here in Japan, but there's no protective gear worn. Some don't have lights and many cycle on the pavement.

The phone thing took a few years to get here, but it's a nuisance not just confined to two wheels.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 26, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> Bicycles are popular here in Japan, but there's no protective gear worn. Some don't have lights and many cycle on the pavement.
> 
> The phone thing took a few years to get here, but it's a nuisance not just confined to two wheels.



Oh I know its not just bikes but I see a lot of them in no gear cycling around London in heavy fast traffic checking the phone.

From what I've seen of Japan bicycle culture is much more casual and widespread but I've not see the phone thing happening there. Phone checking in general seems a lot less than here as well.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 26, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> As you know there’s no speed limit on many stretches of Autobahn and 130kph on others, well I had a 3ltr BMW, so really fucking went for it...
> 
> 57kph in a 50


It's a change for it to be you and not Mrs Strasse  
I assume this means a straight fine without points?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 26, 2020)

hash tag said:


> It's a change for it to be you and not Mrs Strasse
> I assume this means a straight fine without points?



Foreign powers can’t give points anyway, but even if I had a German license that wouldn’t get any, just a whopping €15 fine, plus €25 for Sixt to grass me up


----------



## hash tag (Aug 26, 2020)

This explains is why you were happy to take it and not blame your missus.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 26, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> Saw a cyclist looking at his phone the other night, one hand steering the bike, wobbling all over the place.


See a bit of this. Also see pedestrians walking into the road staring at their phones. 

However car drivers are equally as bad with phones/attention and they are in 'control' of a ton or more of metal travelling at speed.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 26, 2020)

Diagram billboard in Bristol (James St / Mina Rd).


----------



## hash tag (Aug 26, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> Saw a cyclist looking at his phone the other night, one hand steering the bike, wobbling all over the place.


I used to wobble on my bike after i had had a drink too many. Even got stopped by the law once on  a Saturday morning, pissed, riding one bike and carrying another


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 26, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I used to wobble on my bike after i had had a drink too many. Even got stopped by the law once on  a Saturday morning, pissed, riding one bike and carrying another



Crashed over a police car’s bonnet on ket once, they said nothing.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 26, 2020)

Badgers said:


> See a bit of this. Also see pedestrians walking into the road staring at their phones.
> 
> However car drivers are equally as bad with phones/attention and they are in 'control' of a ton or more of metal travelling at speed.


Dream on. The message is getting through to drivers that it's 6 points and a minimum £200 fine just for having a phone in your hand now. You still see the occasional dick using one but it's pretty rare now. Cyclists know there's not much anyone can do to them so it's still absolutely rife, particularly in London. Most of the time they'll be changing their music. They should all be arrested and charged with attempted murder.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 26, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Dream on. The message is getting through to drivers that it's 6 points and a minimum £200 fine just for having a phone in your hand now. You still see the occasional dick using one but it's pretty rare now. Cyclists know there's not much anyone can do to them so it's still absolutely rife, particularly in London. Most of the time they'll be changing their music. They should all be arrested and charged with attempted murder.


Pffft


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 26, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Dream on. The message is getting through to drivers that it's 6 points and a minimum £200 fine just for having a phone in your hand now. You still see the occasional dick using one but it's pretty rare now. Cyclists know there's not much anyone can do to them so it's still absolutely rife, particularly in London. Most of the time they'll be changing their music. They should all be arrested and charged with attempted murder.


They should have unsolved murders pinned on them.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 26, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Dream on. The message is getting through to drivers that it's 6 points and a minimum £200 fine just for having a phone in your hand now. You still see the occasional dick using one but it's pretty rare now.



Bollocks


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 26, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Bollocks


This is the kind of response we've grown to expect from people like you.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 27, 2020)




----------



## Badgers (Aug 27, 2020)




----------



## Badgers (Aug 27, 2020)




----------



## Spymaster (Aug 27, 2020)

Badgers said:


>



Cyclist sitting at the roadside trying to damage car tyres with his feet.

Notice also, that he is doing this on the approach to a pedestrian crossing, thereby attempting to cause maximum carnage.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 27, 2020)

Bloody rain, putting drivers at risk 









						Terrifying moment £50k super car spins out of control on M66 in heavy rain
					

"This driver had a lucky escape" after the Ferrari spun out and hit the central reservation



					www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 27, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Bloody rain, putting drivers at risk
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Something they do right in places like France and Germany; different speed limits in wet weather. Just reinforces in peoples' minds to drive differently in bad weather, something you all too often don't see in the UK.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 27, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Something they do right in places like France and Germany; different speed limits in wet weather. Just reinforces in peoples' minds to drive differently in bad weather, something you all too often don't see in the UK.



Isn't that part of what smart motorways are about?  There are elements of smart motorways which I'm not that keen on but the general idea of adapting speed limits to suit conditions (whether they be weather conditions or weight of traffic) is sound.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 27, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Isn't that part of what smart motorways are about?  There are elements of smart motorways which I'm not that keen on but the general idea of adapting speed limits to suit conditions (whether they be weather conditions or weight of traffic) is sound.



Smart motorways are about adding an extra lane at the expense of the safety of the hard shoulder. Variable speed limits have been around since long before the smart motorway. But in other places it is a fixed thing:






So it is burnt in to your consciousness that you adjust your speed to the conditions.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 27, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Smart motorways are about adding an extra lane at the expense of the safety of the hard shoulder. Variable speed limits have been around since long before the smart motorway. But in other places it is a fixed thing:
> 
> View attachment 228033



I think they are a bit more than bringing the hard shoulder into use.  They are about constantly managing flow of traffic in real time and adjusting speed limits accordingly so traffic flow is always optimum.  Trying to avoid the shock waving that used to plague motorways by getting everyone to drive at roughly the same speed.  The hard shoulder thing is part of that but not necessary for a motorway to be considered smart, I think some stretches of the M1 have been upgraded to smart but still have a constant hard shoulder.

My experience of them is that they have been pretty effective in that regard.

The sign in your picture is a good idea and cheap but would take ages for people to get used to in the UK.  Variable speed limits enforceable with average speed cameras is much more 21st century.

Of course in general we are a bit hard on ourselves.  UK motorways were the safest high speed roads in Europe even before the introduction of smart motorways.  Whether that stays the same because of the hard shoulder thing remains to be seen.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 27, 2020)

Variable speed limits to manage traffic flow have been on the M25 since the mid 90's, they do work well, but I have only ever seen them come on in heavy traffic and not for bad weather.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 27, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Variable speed limits to manage traffic flow have been on the M25 since the mid 90's, they do work well, but I have only ever seen them come on in heavy traffic and not for bad weather.



Yes but that was in quite a primitive way.  It was very reactive and relied on humans monitoring intermittent cameras.  It usually only kicked in when there had been an incident or when whoever was monitoring the cameras saw a traffic jam.  They also quite frequently forgot to change the speed limit back to normal after the traffic had cleared hence the joy of matrix signs telling you to do 50mph when the road was clear.

This is all real time and mostly computer operated now. It aims to be proactive and prevent jams before they happen as much as is possible and weather conditions play a part in that.   Getting rid of the constant accelerating than breaking hard which caused shockwave traffic jams is a positive i think even if that means we have to drive at 50mph a lot more.  We'll still get to our destination quicker.  That's the theory anyway.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 27, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Yes but that was in quite a primitive way.  It was very reactive and relied on humans monitoring intermittent cameras.  It usually only kicked in when there had been an incident or when whoever was monitoring the cameras saw a traffic jam.  They also quite frequently forgot to change the speed limit back to normal after the traffic had cleared hence the joy of matrix signs telling you to do 50mph when the road was clear.
> 
> This is all real time and mostly computer operated now. It aims to be proactive and prevent jams before they happen as much as is possible and weather conditions play a part in that.   Getting rid of the constant accelerating than breaking hard which caused shockwave traffic jams is a positive i think even if that means we have to drive at 50mph a lot more.  We'll still get to our destination quicker.  That's the theory anyway.



Dangerous, 17 minutes to spot a broken down car in a live lane: Are smart motorways dangerous? The safety issues around the highways explained

Doesn't bother me of course, sitting pretty three lanes away in the four rings lane...


----------



## BigTom (Aug 27, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Dangerous, 17 minutes to spot a broken down car in a live lane: Are smart motorways dangerous? The safety issues around the highways explained
> 
> Doesn't bother me of course, sitting pretty three lanes away in the four rings lane...



Are there any stats on smart motorways vs non-smart motorways? The m42 has been around for many, many years as it was the pilot (and anecdotally flows way better since than it did before), and the M6 section north of Birmingham also so I'd think we'd have some real world stats as to how much of a difference a full hard shoulder vs the live lane + refuge spaces actually makes.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 27, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Dream on. The message is getting through to drivers that it's 6 points and a minimum £200 fine just for having a phone in your hand now. You still see the occasional dick using one but it's pretty rare now.



Hard disagree. Perhaps it's another difference in London driving/enforcement but imo phone use is as common as it's ever been by drivers.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 27, 2020)

BigTom said:


> Are there any stats on smart motorways vs non-smart motorways? The m42 has been around for many, many years as it was the pilot (and anecdotally flows way better since than it did before), and the M6 section north of Birmingham also so I'd think we'd have some real world stats as to how much of a difference a full hard shoulder vs the live lane + refuge spaces actually makes.




38 dead in five years over a relatively tiny number of motorway miles. The AA will not attend broken down cars in lane one any more as they deem it too dangerous.









						38 killed on smart motorways in last five years
					

Panorama reveals for the first time how many have died on roads that no longer have a hard shoulder.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## BigTom (Aug 27, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 38 dead in five years over a relatively tiny number of motorway miles. The AA will not attend broken down cars in lane one any more as they deem it too dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Figure is meaningless, needs to be a comparative figure with non-smart networks per miles travelled.
article says


> he figure of 38 deaths over five years on the smart motorway network is significant because it only makes up a small proportion of the total miles of road.



but that doesn't actually tell us what we need to know.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 27, 2020)

BigTom said:


> Figure is meaningless, needs to be a comparative figure with non-smart networks per miles travelled.
> article says
> 
> 
> but that doesn't actually tell us what we need to know.





BigTom said:


> Figure is meaningless, needs to be a comparative figure with non-smart networks per miles travelled.
> article says
> 
> 
> but that doesn't actually tell us what we need to know.






> The AA will not attend broken down cars in lane one any more as they deem it too dangerous.



Tells me enough.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 27, 2020)

I know parliament has been sufficiently concerned about safety that they have asked the government several times to pause the smart motorway upgrades until more research is done.  The concept of smart motorways appears to be sound for the general idea of active traffic management so its not really about the concept as such but more about whether bring the hard shoulder into general use is safe.  You can have a smart motorway with a constant hard shoulder but you can't bring the hard shoulder into use without active traffic management.

Using the hard shoulder does feel dangerous to me.  The idea that cars are more reliable now is all very well and good but they do still break down.  I also think if you are going to make such big changes there needs to be a driver education program that goes with it.  Then again there isn't one for any aspects of motorways which is still a bit mad.


----------



## T & P (Aug 27, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> Saw a cyclist looking at his phone the other night, one hand steering the bike, wobbling all over the place.



I see an awful lot of delivery scooter riders checking their phone while on the move. All of all the modes of transport to do so, a fucking motorised bike it's arguably the worst by some margin.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 28, 2020)

79-year-old cyclist found seriously injured on main Dumfries road dies as police search for dark coloured BMW
					

A 79-year-old man died in hospital after being found off his bike and seriously injured on the A710 Dumfries to Dalbeattie road near Southerness.




					www.heraldscotland.com


----------



## hash tag (Aug 29, 2020)

(sorry, I cant get vid on its own). Start counting very slowly when the woman moves away!




__





						Sydney Woman Dodges Death as Car Plows Through Bus Stop
					





					www.msn.com


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 29, 2020)

hash tag said:


> (sorry, I cant get vid on its own). Start counting very slowly when the woman moves away!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He probably swerved to avoid a drunken cyclist.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 29, 2020)

Drug driver mowed down cyclist at 100mph after all day bender
					

A DRUG driver ploughed into a cyclist at 100mph the morning after an alcohol and cocaine “bender”.




					www.theargus.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 29, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Drug driver mowed down cyclist at 100mph after all day bender
> 
> 
> A DRUG driver ploughed into a cyclist at 100mph the morning after an alcohol and cocaine “bender”.
> ...



This bloke sounds like a right charmer. This is nothing to do with driving and everything to do with him being an unutterable cunt of a human being. 

Hope he rots.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 30, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Variable speed limits to manage traffic flow have been on the M25 since the mid 90's, they do work well, but I have only ever seen them come on in heavy traffic and not for bad weather.



They were using the ones near Sheffield to manage air pollution by reducing the limit when weather conditions and traffic volumes made this a potential problem.

I find them pretty good in general, getting round Birmingham on the 42 seems a lot better. Also makes things like changing lane far easier as traffic is generally all moving at around the same speed.


----------



## Marty1 (Aug 30, 2020)

hash tag said:


> The majority of drivers do break the speed limit. Try travelling at 70 on a motorway...only lorries will go slower.
> Virtually no one obeys the 20 limits in my neck of the woods, even on side roads, where its more important to obey them.



20mph limits are the worst - usually in semi- rural villages from my experience with restricted speed zone flashing LED signs.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 30, 2020)

Motorists drive wrong way up slip road in traffic - BBC News
					

Traffic Wales says the drivers could have caused a serious crash by performing "illegal U-turns".




					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (Sep 1, 2020)

Update: Police investigating video of Brighton driver deliberately clattering wands on emergency bike lane
					

“There you go, mate, they get a proper little bashing for you … Ooh, I’ve knocked me wing mirror off”




					road.cc
				






> Judging by the comments on the Facebook post, it appears a number of people are aware who the driver is, with several congratulating him, one saying “Only him.”


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 1, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Update: Police investigating video of Brighton driver deliberately clattering wands on emergency bike lane
> 
> 
> “There you go, mate, they get a proper little bashing for you … Ooh, I’ve knocked me wing mirror off”
> ...


That actually made the news in Brighton?


----------



## maomao (Sep 1, 2020)

T & P said:


> I see an awful lot of delivery scooter riders checking their phone while on the move. All of all the modes of transport to do so, a fucking motorised bike it's arguably the worst by some margin.


They'll (mostly) be checking their work. Blame the apps that have replaced restaurants' in-house delivery drivers and lazy fuckers who want cheap food brought to their door.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 1, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> That actually made the news in Brighton?


Yes. Hence the link ^


----------



## T & P (Sep 1, 2020)

maomao said:


> They'll (mostly) be checking their work. Blame the apps that have replaced restaurants' in-house delivery drivers and lazy fuckers who want cheap food brought to their door.


Er... I have complete sympathy with their ever deteriorating working conditions, but no, I squarely blame them alone for checking their phone while riding a motorcycle with one hand. As inexcusable as any other road user using a mobile phone while on the move. And more dangeours at that.


----------



## maomao (Sep 1, 2020)

T & P said:


> Er... I have complete sympathy with their ever deteriorating working conditions, but no, I squarely blame them alone for checking their phone while riding a motorcycle with one hand. As inexcusable as any other road user using a mobile phone while on the move. And more dangeours at that.



More dangerous to the rider maybe but not as dangerous to others as driving a car while checking your phone. That's just down to the mass of the vehicle. If anything a car driver is more likely to be doing it at a higher speed. I'd like to see a motorcyclist check their phone at 70mph.

And working 'conditions' include training and H&S both of which Uber and Deliveroo are cutting corners on. While employing people who don't necessarily have any training to be on the road at all. But your pizza cost 50p less. Huzzah!


----------



## T & P (Sep 1, 2020)

maomao said:


> More dangerous to the rider maybe but not as dangerous to others as driving a car while checking your phone. That's just down to the mass of the vehicle. If anything a car driver is more likely to be doing it at a higher speed. I'd like to see a motorcyclist check their phone at 70mph.
> 
> And working 'conditions' include training and H&S both of which Uber and Deliveroo are cutting corners on. While employing people who don't necessarily have any training to be on the road at all. But your pizza cost 50p less. Huzzah!


Wow... suddenly your concern for pedestrians diminishes to nearly zero if they might be potentially hit by anything other than teh evil car.

And again, I'm fully aware of the conditons they are put in. On that note, are you as forgiving of underpaid/ freelance car and van delivery drivers exploited by the likes of Amazon who might also feel necessary to check their mobile phone work apps on the move?


----------



## maomao (Sep 1, 2020)

T & P said:


> Wow... suddenly your concern for pedestrians diminishes to nearly zero if they might be potentially hit by anything other than teh evil car.
> 
> And again, I'm fully aware of the conditons they are put in. On that note, are you as forgiving of underpaid/ freelance car and van delivery drivers exploited by the likes of Amazon who might also feel necessary to check their mobile phone work apps on the move?


Why don't I care about pedestrians again? Because I apportion part of the blame differently than you do? How many lives are you saving with your impotent sneering? 

I think all professional drivers should be employed properly with the employer taking responsibility for training and H&S assessments. This might actually save a few more lives than sneering at low paid untrained workers.

And all cars should have faraday cages built into the frames to ensure drivers can't use their mobiles while inside them.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 1, 2020)

maomao said:


> I'd like to see a motorcyclist check their phone at 70mph.


Around 25 years ago, I took the ferry from Dublin to Holyhead. I'd crossed the Menai bridge on my way to Manchester, and after riding for a while in the freezing cold, boredom set in, so I decided to see if I could roll a joint at 70mph on the A55. It was tricky but I was riding a GSX1100F with an electric screen, and there was an area between the clocks and the screen that wasn't subjected to the elements if you got the screen in just the right position. It made a nice little skinning up shelf.
I was chuffed to bits when I managed to make it, until I realised it was going to be impossible to smoke it whilst wearing a full face helmet.


----------



## T & P (Sep 1, 2020)

maomao said:


> Why don't I care about pedestrians again? Because I apportion part of the blame differently than you do? How many lives are you saving with your impotent sneering?
> 
> I think all professional drivers should be employed properly with the employer taking responsibility for training and H&S assessments. This might actually save a few more lives than sneering at low paid untrained workers.
> 
> And all cars should have faraday cages built into the frames to ensure drivers can't use their mobiles while inside them.


I am saying (tongue-in-cheek, in case you haven't noticed) that you don't care about pedestrians because as somone who has frequently talked about road safely, you seem rather forgiving about bike delivery riders using a mobile phone while on the move. That they would cause less damage than a car doesn't mean they don't have ENORMOUS potential for causing very serious injuries and death to pedestrians in case of a collision. A rider and a bike will easily weight 200kg+. Do you think having that mass crashing into you at 25- 30 mph is going to be anything less than horrendous?

You should be every last bit as condeming of them using mobile phones when driving as of car users, disgraceful working conditions or not.


----------



## maomao (Sep 1, 2020)

T & P said:


> A rider and a bike will easily weight 200kg+. Do you think having that mass crashing into you at 25- 30 mph is going to be anything less than horrendous?


Less horrendous than a 1000kg+ car though. I don't know how you can even dispute that. Would you rather be hit by a motorbike or a car?

And the whole 'if you don't condemn (a) then (b)' line of argument is _always_ bollocks. I don't do requests.

I see what passes for 'training' at Uber Eats and Deliveroo all the time. Recent migrants with L plates on their bikes being told by other riders where to wait their turn outside McDonalds until it's their turn to earn £3.50. If I was working for pennies like that (and it nearly came to that recently) I'd be going as quick as I could once I had my job on even if it meant checking maps or signalling package on board after I'd started moving. And you're trying to claim that the people who designed and profit from this sytem have no responsibility whatsoever? What a load of individualist 'common sense' bullshit. I bet you vote LD or Tory.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 3, 2020)

Pedestrian 'in critical condition' after collision with van
					

A 22-year-old man has been arrested



					www.leicestermercury.co.uk
				






> A blue Vauxhall Vivaro van is said to have collided with a pedestrian, before continuing and then colliding with two cars – a Renault Scenic and a BMW 3 Series.
> 
> Another pedestrian suffered minor injuries.
> 
> Following the collision, a 22-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of causing serious injury by dangerous driving, driving while under the influence of drugs and possession of a class A drug with intent to supply.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 3, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Pedestrian 'in critical condition' after collision with van
> 
> 
> A 22-year-old man has been arrested
> ...


It was a Halfords van, full of cycles.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 3, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> It was a Halfords van, full of cycles.


Ironic


----------



## nick (Sep 3, 2020)

Or incorrect

Although it gave me a giggle


----------



## Badgers (Sep 3, 2020)

> An unlicensed driver who drove at almost three times over the speed limit and killed a young teenager has been jailed for four years.











						Driver who killed 'soft-hearted' teenager in Wigan jailed
					

An unlicensed driver who drove at almost three times over the speed limit and killed a young teenager has been jailed for four years.




					www.gmp.police.uk


----------



## hash tag (Sep 3, 2020)

He will be out after 2 years   
Where did he get hold of the Jag I wonder, borrowed, stolen....


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 3, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Driver who killed 'soft-hearted' teenager in Wigan jailed
> 
> 
> An unlicensed driver who drove at almost three times over the speed limit and killed a young teenager has been jailed for four years.
> ...


_Unlicensed_

Obviously a cyclist.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 3, 2020)

Three-year-old girl dies after horror crash on County Durham road
					

The young girl was pronounced dead in hospital after being fatally injured in the crash involving a car and van



					www.chroniclelive.co.uk
				






> A three-year-old girl has died after a car and van crash in County Durham.
> 
> The horrific crash, which left seven people injured, happened at about 2.30pm on Wednesday on the A1086 Coast Road between the villages of Horden and BlackhalColliery. ry


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 3, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Three-year-old girl dies after horror crash on County Durham road
> 
> 
> The young girl was pronounced dead in hospital after being fatally injured in the crash involving a car and van
> ...


Blimey! A car crash!


----------



## Badgers (Sep 3, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Blimey! A car crash!


I know  

On a driving standards thread too. Blimey


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 4, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Update: Police investigating video of Brighton driver deliberately clattering wands on emergency bike lane
> 
> 
> “There you go, mate, they get a proper little bashing for you … Ooh, I’ve knocked me wing mirror off”
> ...


From that link..." Another asked, “Hero … can he come and do Worthing too” to which the original poster replied, “lol they do bounce back again.” 

I wonder if they did, or if it's a copycat.











						Watch angry driver run over Worthing’s controversial A24 cycle lane bollards - police seek witnesses
					

Sussex Police are seeking a driver who filmed themselves driving over bollards marking a controversial cycle lane on Worthing’s A24.




					www.worthingherald.co.uk


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 4, 2020)

Tis the work of a big, strong, brave man to knock over a few plastic bollards with a car. His name, which he has bravely withheld, will ring out in folk ballads for centuries to come.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 4, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> From that link..." Another asked, “Hero … can he come and do Worthing too” to which the original poster replied, “lol they do bounce back again.”
> 
> I wonder if they did, or if it's a copycat.
> 
> ...



Not at all sure why anyone would want to do that to their paintwork. I’d do it in Plank’s van though.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 4, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Tis the work of a big, strong, brave man to knock over a few plastic bollards with a car. His name, which he has bravely withheld, will ring out in folk ballads for centuries to come.



There's no mention of the driver being a man, so drop the sexism.


----------



## nick (Sep 4, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> _Unlicensed_
> 
> Obviously a cyclist.



The joke about the Halfords van was a goodun.

I fear you have hit the law of diminishing returns with the repetition


----------



## BigTom (Sep 5, 2020)

Dr Suzanna Bull: Lorry company to be closed after cyclist's death
					

The firm that employed the driver who killed Suzanna Bull "misled" the inquiry into what happened.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




This death happened nearly 3 years ago but the public inquiry has just finished and the lorry operating company is having its operating licence revoked along with £112k fine. The driver went to prison for 21 months.

I don't know if this was discussed on here at the time but i remember social media, newspaper comments in general at the time blaming her for going up the inside of a turning lorry and i hope those people see this and remember not to jump to judgement so quickly next time.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 5, 2020)

Oh Dear, shame. Hope it is nothing to do with Voley 








						Car spotted crashing in waves on beach in St Agnes
					

The recovery driver who retrieved the car said it was full of seaweed and stones.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Voley (Sep 5, 2020)

Not me, no.

My Mum and Dad did this with a Mini years ago though. Amazingly it didn't write the car off - had it steam-cleaned and it was still roadworthy if a ticking timebomb rust-wise.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 5, 2020)

Off topic



> The owner of the beach, Steve Blundson, was walking his dogs when he saw the car, checked there was nobody inside and called the police



But nobody should be allowed to own a beach


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 5, 2020)

Sorry but this car is too precious for anyone to park too close


----------



## dervish (Sep 7, 2020)

I reckon I could fit my i30 to the right of that. Might have to get out of the boot but it would be totally worth it.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 7, 2020)

^^^  Totally agree, I would probably try the same  ^^^


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 8, 2020)

Some speeding stats:


----------



## hash tag (Sep 8, 2020)

No surprises there I would say. Virtually no one sticks to the 20 limit on the road nearby. Its a wide main road and bus route


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 8, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> Some speeding stats:



Proof that speed limits are too low.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 8, 2020)

Those stats show that compliance is pretty good, IMO.


----------



## T & P (Sep 8, 2020)

Those stats are pretty meaningless in every respect without more context. They don’t even suggest irresponsible driving as overall figures.

As many of us have pointed us regularly over the years when discussing speeding, the Highway Code and/ local authorities regulating traffic legislation are by no means infallible, and the rules they set out beyond questioning or always fit for purpose.

Many narrow residents that for decades have had a 30 mph are blatantly unsafe and unsuitable to drive on at any more than 18-22 mph to any driver who is remotely competent. And equally, many roads covered by blanket 20 mph zones are in the right circumstances completely suitable, and more than reasonably safe, for least 25 mph and sometimes 30 mph speeds. Kennington Road and Denmark are two obvious examples, and there are plenty more about. So if survey includes data from across an entire area and includes certain major roads, it’s no surprising to see such figures. They mean nothing as a whole.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 8, 2020)

mauvais said:


> Those stats show that compliance is pretty good, IMO.


How can compliance be good when half the drivers are breaking the law?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 8, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Sorry but this car is too precious for anyone to park too close
> 
> View attachment 229230



She needs all that space to get her hairdressing gear in and out of the car.


----------



## Aladdin (Sep 8, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> He needs all that space to get his hairdressing gear in and out of the car.



Ftfy  😁


----------



## hash tag (Sep 8, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> She needs all that space to get her hairdressing gear in and out of the car.


"she"


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 8, 2020)

Sugar Kane said:


> Ftfy  😁



Don't be daft. It's a white SLK.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 8, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> How can compliance be good when half the drivers are breaking the law?


Because compliance is more than binary. If everyone breaking the speed limit was breaking it by 1mph, that would be pretty good compliance. And the reality is the bell curves (in the linked document) are fairly well constrained to the speed limit.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 9, 2020)

I know they are for London only and for a short period, but I bet it was the same for much of the country, but the figures
are much more recent and are not what you could interpret as compliant



hash tag said:


> Check out the speeds you can now drive around town, impressive huh? ...........
> Dosen't match the 200+ on the M23 a few weeks ago
> Rise in speeding drivers during London lockdown
> 
> ...


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I know they are for London only and for a short period, but I bet it was the same for much of the country, but the figures
> are much more recent and are not what you could interpret as compliant


Pretty much meaningless again. All these figures show are the four biggest dickheads in London to be clocked by the old bill during lockdown. They say absolutely nothing about wider driving standards or compliance.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 9, 2020)

undertaking on motorways has gotten out of hand and normalised


----------



## BigTom (Sep 9, 2020)

ska invita said:


> undertaking on motorways has gotten out of hand and normalised



I think driving in overtaking lanes became normalised a long time ago, leading to this happening. It's the people driving in overtaking lanes that need to be targeted here imo.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 9, 2020)

BigTom said:


> I think driving in overtaking lanes became normalised a long time ago, leading to this happening. It's the people driving in overtaking lanes that need to be targeted here imo.


i disagree

increase in cunts is the factor here


----------



## hash tag (Sep 9, 2020)

Perhaps if people stopped hogging the overtaking lanes so much this wouldnt be an issue


----------



## BigTom (Sep 9, 2020)

mauvais said:


> Those stats show that compliance is pretty good, IMO.





> The proportion of cars exceeding the speed limit by more than 10 mph was much lower, at 12% on motorways, 6% on 30 mph roads and 1% on 60mph roads.



Is a useful bit of detail to add to that tweet, although of course 40mph in a 30 is way, way, way worse than 80mph on a motorway. 
Also worth noting is that they surveyed "free flowing roads" only, which I thought would mean they wouldn't be taking readings when it's congested but it's actually wider than that: " Only sites where the road conditions are free flowing and there are no junctions, hills, sharp bends, speed enforcement cameras or other traffic calming measures. "

So the 20mph roads they will have covered will not include any ones with speed bumps or anything like that, the chances are that they can only cover the bigger/wider roads that have been made 20mph (no blanket 20mph areas in Birmingham, but some of the 20mph roads don't look like 20mph roads, but they are residential, have schools or shops or whatever on them so there's good reason for it. Compliance is close to zero on the one near me based on the speeds I see on the speed sign that's partway along it).


----------



## BigTom (Sep 9, 2020)

ska invita said:


> i disagree
> 
> increase in cunts is the factor here



What changed to cause the number of cunts to increase?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2020)

Surrey police cracking down on this.This one joining the A3 from the M25, nearly everyone jumps in to one of the overtaking lanes immediately, but as here, so many just sit at 60 with no one in the left hand lane...









						Mercedes driver issued ticket for A3 middle lane hogging
					

Video footage shows the driver immediately move into the middle lane when joining the A3 from the M25




					www.getsurrey.co.uk


----------



## ska invita (Sep 9, 2020)

BigTom said:


> What changed to cause the number of cunts to increase?


every twats got a fast or big SUV car these days and fancies themselves
endless tory govenrments promoting cuntitude 
a social norm of driving etiquette has eroded over time


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2020)

ska invita said:


> undertaking on motorways has gotten out of hand and normalised


I don't think it has. You hardly ever see it. Sometimes in heavy traffic when an inside lane is flowing quicker than an outer one but that's not illegal. Actual undertaking at speed is pretty rare in my experience.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 9, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I don't think it has. You hardly ever see it. Sometimes in heavy traffic when an inside lane is flowing quicker than an outer one but that's not illegal. Actual undertaking at speed is pretty rare in my experience.


Yeah but you gloat at driving too fast, of course you don't see it


----------



## Chemical needs (Sep 9, 2020)

I witnessed the worst (most dangerous) undertaking I've ever seen on the M6 near liverpool recently. I've done a fair bit of motorway driving and have never seen such selfish and dangerous driving.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Yeah but you gloat at driving too fast, of course you don't see it


Ah, I see. You're talking bollocks. 

Carry on!


----------



## ska invita (Sep 9, 2020)

Chemical needs said:


> I witnessed the worst (most dangerous) undertaking I've ever seen on the M6 near liverpool recently. I've done a fair bit of motorway driving and have never seen such selfish and dangerous driving.


All undertaking is really dangerous (not to undermine your point)


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2020)

ska invita said:


> All undertaking is really dangerous (not to undermine your point)



Not really.

M25, Chertsey to A3, one of the busiest stretches of motorway in Europe, once you have past the first two A3 signs, if a truck is in lane 2 it's fairly safe to undertake it, cos it won't be moving over. Doubly safe as it seems that the vast majority of trucks are left hand drive these days.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 9, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not really.
> 
> M25, Chertsey to A3, one of the busiest stretches of motorway in Europe, once you have past the first two A3 signs, if a truck is in lane 2 it's fairly safe to undertake it, cos it won't be moving over. Doubly safe as it seems that the vast majority of trucks are left hand drive these days.


That's a fair exception


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 9, 2020)

No one uses the inside lane.  In the South East if you use the inside lane you will inevitably undertake at some point unless you're going about 30mph.  The real problem is not undertaking its piss poor lane discipline and twats who don't know how to drive on a motorway.  Pull the fuck over unless you're overtaking.  It really isn't that complicated.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

ska invita said:


> undertaking on motorways has gotten out of hand and normalised


It's pretty much impossible to be undertaken unless you're driving like a twat.
Wankers thinking that overtaking lanes are for sitting in at 65mph are the problem. If someone can undertake you, you're probably in the wrong lane, and should have your car confiscated and crushed.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not really.
> 
> M25, Chertsey to A3, one of the busiest stretches of motorway in Europe, once you have past the first two A3 signs, if a truck is in lane 2 it's fairly safe to undertake it, cos it won't be moving over. Doubly safe as it seems that the vast majority of trucks are left hand drive these days.


The lane is divided with a shorter dashed line, which means this is officially a slip road.



I still wouldn't undertake a lorry here. Your vision of the road ahead would be obstructed, and I've seen far too many twats making 3-lane changes to be sure of the lane remaining clear.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

I undertake all the time. e.g. M25, four lanes, 10pm, not much about except for someone in a Toyota in lane 3 doing 65, I just cruise past in lane 1.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> I undertake all the time. e.g. M25, four lanes, 10pm, not much about except for someone in Toyota in lane 3 doing 65, I just cruise past in lane 1.


Good visibility, light traffic, plenty of separation, yeah that's fine.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2020)

Crispy said:


> The lane is divided with a shorter dashed line, which means this is officially a slip road.
> 
> View attachment 229692
> 
> ...




That's only within 1/2 mile of the junction.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That's only within 1/2 mile of the junction.


You're still putting your trust in other drivers. Even if there were chevrons between mine and the lorry's lane, I wouldn't do it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2020)

Crispy said:


> You're still putting your trust in other drivers. Even if there were chevrons between mine and the lorry's lane, I wouldn't do it.




Get to the purple X and you check for BMW's (always BMW's, Audis seem not to do this particular bit of bad driving)


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2020)

On the subject of trucks, anyone noticed that the cab's number plate rarely matches the trailer these days? More often than not it will even be a different nationality, like UK trailer with Polish cab or some such combination...


----------



## ska invita (Sep 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> It's pretty much impossible to be undertaken unless you're driving like a twat.
> Wankers thinking that overtaking lanes are for sitting in at 65mph are the problem. If someone can undertake you, you're probably in the wrong lane, and should have your car confiscated and crushed.


65mph? your living on a different planet - undertaking the fast lane happens in hte 70-80 mph range, and speed often isnt the issue, if theres congestion and people have to drive carefully at the speed of the lane theres always some excepotional cunt who thinks they can weave through at wank-speed
i do drive around essex and kent a lot so this might have something to do with it


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

Crispy said:


> View attachment 229692




It seems to be a London thing.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2020)

To be fair, they've all just overtaken this lorry behind


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

ska invita said:


> 65mph? your living on a different planet - undertaking the fast lane happens in hte 70-80 mph range, and speed often isnt the issue, if theres congestion and people have to drive carefully at the speed of the lane theres always some excepotional cunt who thinks they can weave through at wank-speed
> i do drive around essex and kent a lot so this might have something to do with it


Whatever speed they're doing. It's people sitting in overtaking lanes, saying to themselves in a Victor Meldrew voice "I'm at the speed limit. They can wait behind me". Those people should have their license revoked and their cars confiscated and crushed.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> View attachment 229704
> 
> It seems to be a London thing.


Not to be the defender of middle lane morons, but in this photo:

(a) if the traffic in the leftmost lane for the A3 was stopped or travelling significantly slower than M25 L1, I would stay out of the latter - too many idiots prone to diving out into a free flowing lane.

and

(b) you can't be sure anyone in M25 L3 is a cunt because they might be overtaking MLMs


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

Crispy said:


> To be fair, they've all just overtaken this lorry behind
> 
> View attachment 229709


Even if that is the case, they're still sat in the overtaking lanes a mile down the road. Once you pass someone you should immediately move back into the nearside lane. There's no excuse to be sat in the overtaking lanes when the inside lane is empty.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 9, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I get that, but have you ever looked at an artic? If you look carefully, the invariably have a different number plate on the tractor from the trailer because they are so interchangeable and I guess the technology could be different.
> For solid lorry's a great idea though.





Bahnhof Strasse said:


> On the subject of trucks, anyone noticed that the cab's number plate rarely matches the trailer these days? More often than not it will even be a different nationality, like UK trailer with Polish cab or some such combination...



Errr yes 😁


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Even if that is the case, they're still sat in the overtaking lanes a mile down the road. Once you pass someone you should immediately move back into the nearside lane. There's no excuse to be sat in the overtaking lanes when the inside lane is empty, unless driving a big, powerful Audi



ftfy


----------



## Chemical needs (Sep 9, 2020)

ska invita said:


> All undertaking is really dangerous (not to undermine your point)


At high speed with no room to spare in heavy traffic = more dangerous


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Even if that is the case, they're still sat in the overtaking lanes a mile down the road. Once you pass someone you should immediately move back into the nearside lane. There's no excuse to be sat in the overtaking lanes when the inside lane is empty.



No, in this case there’s the disease that causes people to sit in the left lane when the want to stay on the motorway, and then move over in a panic without checking their mirrors first. The best defence is to keep lane one clear for them, until the armco barrier physically keeps them from rejoining.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> No, in this case there’s the disease that causes people to sit in the left lane when the want to stay on the motorway, and then move over in a panic without checking their mirrors first. The best defence is to keep lane one clear for them, until the armco barrier physically keeps them from rejoining.


It's definitely a London thing. I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles in the UK, and never experienced driving like I did in London. They have approximately zero lane dicipline.


----------



## T & P (Sep 9, 2020)

All of this bitterness and recriminations could be avoided if we adopted the every-cunt-for-himself freeway system they have in the US


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 9, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> She needs all that space to get her hairdressing gear in and out of the car.



It was a woman driver - I followed her in as I had a delivery.  She was fumbling for her door keys as I delivered to the house next door - she looked a little sheepish as she knew I’d just watched her brazenly park across two spaces.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 9, 2020)

__





						Children and parents injured after car mounts pavement outside school
					

Witnesses described seeing a boy 'covered in blood' while other children 'begged' for the emergency services to arrive.



					metro.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Sep 9, 2020)

Just around the corner from me. I was waiting before saying anything as no arrests, no mention of age, distractions, speeding...if its the road i think it is, it has a lot of speed humps and will be a 20 limit.


----------



## T & P (Sep 9, 2020)

Examples like that are of course appalling, but really awful individual driving incidents out of a pool of 33 million UK drivers are no more indicative of the average driving standards among the general population in this country than Shannon Matthews is of parenting standards.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 10, 2020)

Way to go, Mr school bus driver.


----------



## Argonia (Sep 10, 2020)

Amazing that none of the children died looking at those pictures.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 10, 2020)

This is impressive - not talking on a phone while driving, texting or whatever, not even watching a film; classy









						Councillor 'drove lorry during Zoom meeting' claim investigated
					

Footage appears to show David Brown attempting to respond to questions and take part in a vote.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 10, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Way to go, Mr school bus driver.



The local telly news ran a long report - it's not looking good for the driver.  The kids told him he was going the wrong way.  He then stopped in front of the bridge, before accelerating forwards again.  

It is damned lucky no one was killed or very seriously hurt.


----------



## T & P (Sep 10, 2020)

He must be a James Bond fan...


----------



## 2hats (Sep 10, 2020)

hash tag said:


> This is impressive - not talking on a phone while driving, texting or whatever, not even watching a film; classy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I disagree with this and think the sentencing is about right in this case. Tragic as it is, the driver wasn't doing anything illegal, had a completely clean record, and clearly showed utter remorse. Unfortunately accidents happen. Punishing people as if they were guilty of far greater culpability doesn't make much sense. The bloke's going to have to live with the consequences for the rest of his life and as the judge said, there's no evidence that the phone conversation contributed to the accident. These boards are hilarious sometimes. Liberal tosspots soft as fuck on all other criminal activity but when it comes to drivers it's string 'em up time!




Drivers who kill others could receive life sentences under new laws Killer drivers could face life sentences


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Drivers who kill others could receive life sentences under new laws Killer drivers could face life sentences


I agree with that though. Drink/drug driving, racing or otherwise being an arsehole absolutely should be punished more heavily.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 14, 2020)

Racing is open to intrepretation though and not always easily proven.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 14, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Drivers who kill others could receive life sentences under new laws Killer drivers could face life sentences



Even if they say they are really really sorry and put a sad face on and everything?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 14, 2020)




----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2020)

Badgers said:


>



if she can't put cops deliberately at risk then what is she doing in the police force? we're always told how they put themselves in harm's way to protect the public. not in brighton it seems tho. i expect she brings all her plod cups of tea and biscuits and organises some sort of aromatherapy for any of them who might not have been received in utter adoration by the burghers of brighton.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 14, 2020)

If the roads are too dangerous for the police then drastic measures need to be taken


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 14, 2020)

Badgers said:


> If the roads are too dangerous for the police then drastic measures need to be taken


Get better cops.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 14, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Get better cops.


That will fuck the drivers


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2020)

Badgers said:


>



Good work


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2020)

Badgers said:


> If the roads are too dangerous for the police then drastic measures need to be taken


Yes. Makes sense.

IF

BUT

And MAYBE


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 14, 2020)

Badgers said:


> If the roads are too dangerous for the police then drastic measures need to be taken


----------



## gentlegreen (Sep 14, 2020)

Three close passes on the way home in suburban Bristol ... within the space of a mile and a half.
First one 50 yards from a roundabout, second one on the approach to a blind bend and a junction he himself was taking (as was I) - desperate to get to the pub.
Third one ignored my clear hand signal as I was positioned to turn right.

Oh and then the one who pulled out from the left, only to pull into the bus lane to continue his phone conversation.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 15, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> if she can't put cops deliberately at risk then what is she doing in the police force? we're always told how they put themselves in harm's way to protect the public. not in brighton it seems tho. i expect she brings all her plod cups of tea and biscuits and organises some sort of aromatherapy for any of them who might not have been received in utter adoration by the burghers of brighton.




Seems her name is Brighton but she works in Worcestershire. Her twatter page looks like a memorial to a dead cop.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 15, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Seems her name is Brighton but she works in Worcestershire. Her twatter page looks like a memorial to a dead cop.
> 
> View attachment 230422


It's a multi functional device which can be a bed, a bench, and breaks down into a coffin


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)




----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I agree with that though. Drink/drug driving, racing or otherwise being an arsehole absolutely should be punished more heavily.



Should throw use of phone in with some of that as well.  As per the above video it's an epidemic out there and still so many people don't give a shit.  Time for an automatic minimum 3 or maybe 6 month ban I reckon.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Should throw use of phone in with some of that as well.  As per the above video it's an epidemic out there and still so many people don't give a shit.  Time for an automatic minimum 3 or maybe 6 month ban I reckon.


Agree. 

Drink driving is a mandatory 12 month ban. 

Think that a 6 month mandatory ban is pretty fair for using a phone while driving.
Maybe a 3 month mandatory ban for using one in stationary traffic.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

Truck drivers watching a film or facetiming; 2 years' prison and lifetime HGV ban, a punishment that really messes up their life. That kind of behaviour is wholly inexcusable from a professional driver with 40 tons of truck under their command and the message needs to go out that society will not accept it.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Truck drivers watching a film or facetiming; 2 years' prison and lifetime HGV ban, a punishment that really messes up their life. That kind of behaviour is wholly inexcusable from a professional driver with 40 tons of truck under their command and the message needs to go out that society will not accept it.


Agree on HGV drivers but there should also be a similar scale of ban for all professional drivers (taxi/coach/van/courier) given the amount of driving hours.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

Road traffic accidents are the number on killer of children up to 15yo
Ahead of Cancer, Malaria, etc. which is pretty shocking.



			https://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/child/injury/world_report/Road_traffic_injuries_english.pdf


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Truck drivers watching a film or facetiming; 2 years' prison and lifetime HGV ban, a punishment that really messes up their life. That kind of behaviour is wholly inexcusable from a professional driver with 40 tons of truck under their command and the message needs to go out that society will not accept it.



Yes.  That wanker doing a video call when driving on the above clip.  Would it be so hard just to make a standard hands free call?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Agree on HGV drivers but there should also be a similar scale of ban for all professional drivers (taxi/coach/van/courier) given the amount of driving hours.




tbf they are treated a little differently, some years ago I was knocked off my bike by a truck driver kicking his door open, a copper came to see me in St Thomas' and informed me of an offence that I'd not heard of, he called it opening the door to danger. He said that they don't nick car drivers for it, but would be doing him as he's a professional driver.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> tbf they are treated a little differently, some years ago I was knocked off my bike by a truck driver kicking his door open, a copper came to see me in St Thomas' and informed me of an offence that I'd not heard of, he called it opening the door to danger. He said that they don't nick car drivers for it, but would be doing him as he's a professional driver.


Seems fair. Although I would give a car driver points at least for undue care and attention. If I threw a brick into the road in front of a car I would get fined/charged, no reason why a car driver opening a big metal door into incoming traffic should get better treatment. 

The Dutch Reach is a really good safety project: 





__





						Dutch Reach Project – A site to promote the Dutch far-hand habit to avoid dooring cyclists, or drivers or passengers from stepping into on-coming traffic.
					

A site to promote the safer far-hand Dutch Reach habit to get out of your car.  It prevents dooring 'accidents' / crashes that injure & kill bicyclists.  You too are safer because you naturally turn & see on-coming  traffic before and as you exit.



					www.dutchreach.org


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Seems fair. Although I would give a car driver points at least for undue care and attention. If I threw a brick into the road in front of a car I would get fined/charged, no reason why a car driver opening a big metal door into incoming traffic should get better treatment.
> 
> The Dutch Reach is a really good safety project:
> 
> ...



I have been doing that for the past couple of years, but using my left hand to open the door, rather than the right hand yer Dutchies use...


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Maybe a 3 month mandatory ban for using one in stationary traffic.


Nah. I'm all for cracking down on dangerous driving but banning people for using them when the car's stopped dead in stationary traffic is just wanky anti-car bellendery.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Maybe a 3 month mandatory ban for using one in stationary traffic.


Nah. I'm all for cracking down on dangerous driving but banning people for using them when the car's stopped dead in stationary traffic is just wanky anti-car bellendery.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I have been doing that for the past couple of years, but using my left hand to open the door, rather than the right hand yer Dutchies use...


I just look down the road!


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Nah. I'm all for cracking down on dangerous driving but banning people for using them when the car's stopped dead in stationary traffic is just wanky anti-car bellendery.


Eyes off the road before pulling away.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I just look down the road!


Not all do as you well know


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I just look down the road!



Yeah, but you're only looking cos you're waiting for a bike to come past before opening the door...


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Eyes off the road before pulling away.


Only if you're an idiot.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah, but you're only looking cos you're waiting for a bike to come past before opening the door...


No. I look because I don't want my door damaged by a moron on a twat machine.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Only if you're an idiot.


75%+ of UK drivers then


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Nah. I'm all for cracking down on dangerous driving but banning people for using them when the car's stopped dead in stationary traffic is just wanky anti-car bellendery.



Its about making the point that it is never acceptable to use a phone when driving.  If you're parked up that's one thing but sat in traffic you should still be giving the road your full attention.   You're either driving or your not.  The drink driving law doesn't make a distinction.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Nah. I'm all for cracking down on dangerous driving but banning people for using them when the car's stopped dead in stationary traffic is just wanky anti-car bellendery.



Current best evidence shows that the distraction of using a phone (or similar things) whilst stationary lasts for about 30 seconds after you stop using the phone (or whatever): Up to 27 seconds of inattention after talking to your car or smartphone
so there's good reason to think about whether it's safe to stop paying attention whilst you are stationary, especially if you can't know when traffic is going to start moving again - a stop/start situation is very different to being sat at a set of lights you know has long phases or on a motorway when there's clearly been a collision or something ahead of you.

I don't think there should be mandatory ban for any stationary vehicle but there's enough situations where you are stationary but only for a short period of time and in a place where a hazard can appear quickly that you can't just say it's not dangerous to use a phone whilst stationary and that there shouldn't be bans for this occurrence.

edit: just re-read this and I think I've got triple or quadruple negatives in the last sentence! Hope it makes sense to anyone else reading it... basically it can be dangerous to use a phone while stationary, there are plenty of situations where it would be, and the danger doesn't end when you put your phone down. Sure there are some situations where it's almost certainly little to no risk but there's no blanket statement to be made here, it's very circumstantial.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> If you're parked up that's one thing but sat in traffic you should still be giving the road your full attention.   You're either driving or your not.


Nonsense.


> The drink driving law doesn't make a distinction.


Silly comparison. If you're sitting in a traffic jam pissed, you're unlikely to be sober when it starts moving.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Nonsense.



Don't be silly, of course you should be.  Things are happening all around you.  Motorbikes weaving through traffic, pedestrians crossing, cars trying to merge from side roads. This is really basic stuff.  People are always going into the back of others in traffic jams because they are not paying attention.

This is already the law anyway with mobile phones so we are simply arguing about suitable punishment.

ETA: Would a ban of 3 months fit the crime?  Possibly not but we are at a stage where the use of phones whilst driving is so normalised that they should send a very clear message in the same way they have done and are doing with other motoring offences.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> If you're sitting in a traffic jam pissed, you're unlikely to be sober when it starts moving.


Given the fucking traffic on the roads it is possible to sober up in a jam


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

BigTom said:


> I don't think there should be mandatory ban for any stationary vehicle


I do 

Maybe with staggered sentences? 
Say 1 month ban for first offence? 

Would be an incentive to start giving a fuck about other people perhaps?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Things are happening all around you.  Motorbikes weaving through traffic, pedestrians crossing, cars trying to merge from side roads.  People are always going into the back of others in traffic jams because they are not paying attention.


More nonsense. Nobody has ever driven into the back of another vehicle when their car is not moving.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> I do
> 
> Maybe with staggered sentences?
> Say 1 month ban for first offence?
> ...



Enforcement is what will make the difference, not bigger penalties. 6 points plus a big fine is enough for most people to stop if they think they will get caught, 2 of those and you're on a ban anyway (1 if you are a new driver).


----------



## BigTom (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> More nonsense. Nobody has ever driven into the back of another vehicle when their car is not moving.



That's not what teaboy was saying and you know it.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> More nonsense. Nobody has ever driven into the back of another vehicle when their car is not moving.



I bet they have now we have driverless cars.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Only if you're an idiot.


Or distracted, which many drivers often are.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 16, 2020)

Not only a ban while using a device while driving but also confiscate that device. The confiscation of the device would really hit some people and would take some explaining, thus helping to spread the word it is not acceptable.


----------



## T & P (Sep 16, 2020)

What about quickly checking a text or indeed any kind of information (weather app for instance) taking no more than 10 seconds while sitting in stationary traffic not moving in the immediate future? Anyone here thinks punishments should be enforced, or are deserved?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

T & P said:


> What about quickly checking a text or indeed any kind of information (weather app for instance) taking no more than 10 seconds while sitting in stationary traffic not moving in the immediate future? Anyone here thinks punishments should be enforced, or are deserved?


I do yes


----------



## T & P (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> I do yes


But presumably you have no objection to drivers touching the touchscreen of a satnav and looking at it for a number of seconds, because it is legal to do so?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

T & P said:


> But presumably you have no objection to drivers touching the touchscreen of a satnav and looking at it for a number of seconds, because it is legal to do so?


Was it safe to do so?


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

T & P said:


> But presumably you have no objection to drivers touching the touchscreen of a satnav and looking at it for a number of seconds, because it is legal to do so?



My touch screen sat nav doesn't work unless the car is in neutral and hand break on.   The idea being that you should be parked up when using it, people shouldn't really be playing with sat nav mid journey. It just takes a minute or two to set up prior to starting your journey.

There is a wider point here about how easily distracted drivers can be these days because of all the gadgets and stuff we have in our cars and to hand.  Its quite hard for the law to legislate in these regards.  There is obviously a sliding scale here obviously but we surely all want the roads to be safer?  Its clear to anyone that does any reasonable level of driving that phone use is rampant and not really seen as a problem.  I think we are at the stage where there needs to be a change in attitude brought about.


----------



## T & P (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Was it safe to do so?


Say in the same situation as the hypothetical driver looking at his mobile phone- stationary traffic.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

T & P said:


> Say in the same situation as the hypothetical driver looking at his mobile phone- stationary traffic.


So all the other road users and pedestrians are about?


----------



## T & P (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> My touch screen sat nav doesn't work unless the car is in neutral and hand break on.   The idea being that you should be parked up when using it, people shouldn't really be playing with sat nav mid journey. It just takes a minute or two to set up prior to starting your journey.
> 
> There is a wider point here about how easily distracted drivers can be these days because of all the gadgets and stuff we have in our cars and to hand.  Its quite hard for the law to legislate in these regards.  There is obviously a sliding scale here obviously but we surely all want the roads to be safer?  Its clear to anyone that does any reasonable level of driving that phone use is rampant and not really seen as a problem.  I think we are at the stage where there needs to be a change in attitude brought about.


There is absolutely nothing unsafe about looking and/ or touching at a phone screen for a few seconds in stationary traffic in many circumstances. Nothing at all.

But if there is, then the same applies to absolutely everything else that makes the driver takes their eyes off the road and one or two hands off the wheel for the same short period of time. Playing with the air con settings, changing the radio station on models with no wheel control, checking if you have some change  in the glove compartment compartment... every bit as dangerous as distracting (or lack thereof) as checking something on the screen of a smartphone. It would be the pinnacle of absurdity to claim otherwise.


----------



## T & P (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> So all the other road users and pedestrians are about?


Let me try to get to the business end of this exchange to save us time. Do you believe there is any situation whatsoever in which using a satnav while on a car journey, including being stationary but not parked, can be done safely?

If the answer is yes, do you believe the same can be said of briefly looking at a phone screen in exactly the same circumstances?


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

T & P said:


> There is absolutely nothing unsafe about looking and/ or touching at a phone screen for a few seconds in stationary traffic in many circumstances. Nothing at all.
> 
> But if there is, then the same applies to absolutely everything else that makes the driver takes their eyes off the road and one or two hands off the wheel for the same short period of time. Playing with the air con settings, changing the radio station on models with no wheel control, checking if you have some change  in the glove compartment compartment... every bit as dangerous as distracting (or lack thereof) as checking something on the screen of a smartphone. It would be the pinnacle of absurdity to claim otherwise.



Setting a sat nav clearly requires more attention than notching the temperature down or changing the radio channel.  Unless of course you're just hitting the take me home button but then again why not just do that before setting off?

But in general this is what I am getting at with all these distractions.  Changing a setting on a button in front of you whilst still having most focus on the road is clearly not an issue.  Sticking your head down to read all your whatsapp messages is distracting.  How many times does the traffic move off and there is someone sat there still looking at the phone.  Then someone beeps and then said person realises and moves off without checking whats going on around them.

Its a sliding scale as I say and it would be better if we all took it upon ourselves to do as little fucking around with gadgets as possible when driving.   It needs to be about changing bad habits that have become normal for driving, for all of us.  Note: I work in field based job and have a company car so its not like I don't do any driving and include myself in all this.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 16, 2020)

T & P said:


> There is absolutely nothing unsafe about looking and/ or touching at a phone screen for a few seconds in stationary traffic in many circumstances. Nothing at all.
> 
> But if there is, then the same applies to absolutely everything else that makes the driver takes their eyes off the road and one or two hands off the wheel for the same short period of time. Playing with the air con settings, changing the radio station on models with no wheel control, checking if you have some change  in the glove compartment compartment... every bit as dangerous as distracting (or lack thereof) as checking something on the screen of a smartphone. It would be the pinnacle of absurdity to claim otherwise.


This isn't true, in either paragraph. How much of a deal it is, I don't exactly know, but as you define it in absolutes, it's not true.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

T & P said:


> Do you believe there is any situation whatsoever in which using a satnav while on a car journey, including being stationary but not parked, can be done safely?


There are variables but using a device be a flat no


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 16, 2020)

It's perfectly legal to use a handheld phone when driving, whether in motion or stationary, as long you don't use an interactive communication function on it.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> It's perfectly legal to use a handheld phone when driving, whether in motion or stationary, as long you don't use an interactive communication function on it.


It’s also currently legal to use it for interactive communications as long as it’s not in your hand .


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> It's perfectly legal to use a handheld phone when driving, whether in motion or stationary, as long you don't use an interactive communication function on it.



Beyond telling the time what other usage does a phone have that is not considered an interactive communication?


----------



## mauvais (Sep 16, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> It's perfectly legal to use a handheld phone when driving, whether in motion or stationary, as long you don't use an interactive communication function on it.


How do you figure that one out?




__





						Road Traffic Act 1988
					

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.




					www.legislation.gov.uk
				





> *Breach of requirements as to control of vehicle, mobile telephones etc.*
> A person who contravenes or fails to comply with a construction and use requirement—
> 
> (a)as to not driving a motor vehicle in a position which does not give proper control or a full view of the road and traffic ahead, or not causing or permitting the driving of a motor vehicle by another person in such a position, or
> ...


It doesn't cease being an interactive communication device (or a telephone) just because you're currently doing something else on it.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> It’s also currently legal to use it for interactive communications as long as it’s not in your hand .



Indeed and this age of hands free devices it does make you wonder why so many people still choose not to use them.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Beyond telling the time what other usage does a phone have that is not considered an interactive communication?



A camera


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 16, 2020)

mauvais said:


> How do you figure that one out?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Case law:








						High Court Clarifies Law on Mobile Phone Usage - Patterson Law
					

The High Court has today handed down a Judgement, which clarifies the offence of using a mobile phone whilst driving.  The offence is not committed unless it is proved beyond reasonable doubt (by the Prosecution) that the phone was being used for an ‘interactive telecommunication function’ at...




					www.pattersonlaw.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Beyond telling the time what other usage does a phone have that is not considered an interactive communication?





mauvais said:


> How do you figure that one out?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Filming: Mobile loophole for filming drivers 'to be closed'


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

mauvais said:


> How do you figure that one out?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Platinumsage is right. It does (unless there's been a law change since July 2019). There are however, plenty of other things you could be done for (without due care and attention etc)









						High Court clarifies the law in 2019 on using a mobile phone whilst driving
					

On July 31, 2019 the High Court clarified the law on using a mobile phone whilst driving. They said that the law prohibits using a mobile phone or other device for calls and other interactive communications and holding it at some stage during that process. But the law does not prohibit using a...




					thedrivingsolicitor.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

mauvais said:


> How do you figure that one out?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Platinumsage is right. It does (unless there's been a law change since July 2019). There are however, plenty of other things you could be done for (without due care and attention etc)









						High Court clarifies the law in 2019 on using a mobile phone whilst driving
					

On July 31, 2019 the High Court clarified the law on using a mobile phone whilst driving. They said that the law prohibits using a mobile phone or other device for calls and other interactive communications and holding it at some stage during that process. But the law does not prohibit using a...




					thedrivingsolicitor.co.uk
				




So using it as a camera or voice recorder doesn't count.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 16, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Case law:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a bellend, and what a disappointing judgement.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

So a weird loophole which is being closed. OK.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> So a weird loophole which is being closed. OK.


There's nothing weird about it. The law was against making hand held telephone calls or texting. Using another function is doing neither of those things so the judgement was eminently sensible. If you want to stop all use of smartphone functions then make that the law, but don't start whining that the law isn't being correctly applied when it is.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> There's nothing weird about it. The law was against making hand held telephone calls or texting. Using another function is doing neither of those things so the judgement was eminently sensible. If you want to stop all use of smartphones then make that the law, but don't start whining that the law isn't being correctly applied when it is.



What are you on about now?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> What are you on about now?


Well it's not a loophole is it? It's just the law and it's the law being applied sensibly as opposed to it being interpreted incorrectly to suit a situation. It's pretty straightforward stuff. If you want to ban all smartphone usage then that's what the law needs to say, but you're heading down the route of making every other non-driving activity illegal too. Ban people for having a conversation while driving? Taking a swig of a drink? Changing radio channels or adjusting the volume? Even whilst the vehicle is at a standstill in motionless traffic and the engine's auto-stopped?


----------



## hash tag (Sep 16, 2020)

The law is an ass.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Insightful stuff


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 16, 2020)

I know an Amazon driver that used to watch films when travelling to other Amazon depots on motorways.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Beyond telling the time what other usage does a phone have that is not considered an interactive communication?



Snake


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Beyond telling the time what other usage does a phone have that is not considered an interactive communication?


 Camera, stopwatch, photo library, voice recorder, music, torch, timer, calculator .... how many do you want?


----------



## T & P (Sep 16, 2020)

And of course, satnav. But until very recently it was illegal to touch it even for just that function, but a TomTom was alright.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

You could still touch it, just not hold it in your hand. So it needs to be on a mount.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 16, 2020)

Which in itself should be wrong. Then there are loads of people that mount them in their line of sight.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2020)

There are plenty of ways to mount them without them obscuring your vision and if they do, it _is_ an offence.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 17, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Camera, stopwatch, photo library, voice recorder, music, torch, timer, calculator .... how many do you want?


Don't forget television (or I suppose technically just a video playback device you don't receive "tele" video).
I was nearly run over by a driver who was watching something on their phone and didn't notice a fucking mini roundabout on the road they were driving on, and thus did not give way to me. Busy shopping street too with zebra crossings. I properly lost it when I caught up with them at traffic lights and saw the phone playing video.

I think there's been talk about creating a general "distracted driving" law which makes sense to me.


----------



## T & P (Sep 17, 2020)

BigTom said:


> I think there's been talk about creating a general "distracted driving" law which makes sense to me.


 Will it include screaming & quarrelling children in the back seats?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 17, 2020)

Driver hit cyclist and caused loss of her unborn baby
					

He drove off at speed and left her lying in the road with devastating injuries



					www.leicestermercury.co.uk
				






> A hit-and-run driver had downed eight double vodkas in a pub shortly before he crashed his van into a heavily pregnant cyclist - causing devastating injuries which led to the loss of her unborn child.
> 
> Gary Marston is thought to have been using his mobile phone and travelling at an estimated speed of 54mph when he struck the rider from behind in Aylestone Road, Aylestone, Leicester in December last year.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 17, 2020)

BigTom said:


> Don't forget television (or I suppose technically just a video playback device you don't receive "tele" video).
> I was nearly run over by a driver who was watching something on their phone and didn't notice a fucking mini roundabout on the road they were driving on, and thus did not give way to me. Busy shopping street too with zebra crossings. I properly lost it when I caught up with them at traffic lights and saw the phone playing video.
> 
> I think there's been talk about creating a general "distracted driving" law which makes sense to me.



Well there’s this but they didn’t bother updating it for televisions that aren’t cathode ray tubes, although courts have interpreted rather generously:





__





						The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
					






					www.legislation.gov.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 17, 2020)

BigTom said:


> I think there's been talk about creating a general "distracted driving" law which makes sense to me.


There's no need as they're all covered by the CD10 (careless driving/without due care and attention).


----------



## Badgers (Sep 17, 2020)

Lorry driver spared jail despite previous fatal crash
					

A lorry driver who left a woman with a broken spine after crashing into her car as he checked his phone has avoided jail despite previously killing a motorist t




					www.thetimes.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 17, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Lorry driver spared jail despite previous fatal crash
> 
> 
> A lorry driver who left a woman with a broken spine after crashing into her car as he checked his phone has avoided jail despite previously killing a motorist t
> ...



ffs


----------



## hash tag (Sep 18, 2020)

Asleep at the wheel   (sorry if posted elsewhere). Both driver and passenger flat on their backs sleeping while their tesla was doing 90mph. So many issues with this
BBC News - Canada Tesla driver charged over 'napping while speeding'








						Canada Tesla driver charged over 'napping while speeding'
					

Canadian police said both front seats were fully reclined as the car drove at 150km/h.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 18, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Asleep at the wheel   (sorry if posted elsewhere). Both driver and passenger flat on their backs sleeping while their tesla was doing 90mph. So many issues with this
> BBC News - Canada Tesla driver charged over 'napping while speeding'
> 
> 
> ...



The ante is always being upped.

Kids party in a Tesla drinking alcohol whilst it’s driving down the motorway in autopilot.









						Video shows Tesla driving on Autopilot with nobody in the driving seat
					

Footage shows young men partying inside the car singing and bobbing along to Justin Bieber's classic hit 'Baby' as the car flies down the highway.




					www.google.com
				




Cool Tik Tok video tho bro


----------



## T & P (Sep 18, 2020)

These automated cars are going to come in very handy when one fancies a a quick line of devil's dundruff while on the move


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> These automated cars are going to come in very handy when one fancies a a quick line of devil's dundruff while on the move



Especially as I often get a raging thirst and can happily arse a litre of vod when hooving up some gak.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> These automated cars are going to come in very handy when one fancies a a quick line of devil's dundruff while on the move


What sort of excuse for a driver can't manage that without a self-driving car?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 18, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> What sort of excuse for a driver can't manage that without a self-driving car?



You know a few lines of toot makes your driving sharper, makes you witty an’all. Not to mention hard as nails...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 18, 2020)

Also...


Teaboy said:


> Beyond telling the time what other usage does a phone have that is not considered an interactive communication?


Chopping out a line on your way to work.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> These automated cars are going to come in very handy when one fancies a a quick line of devil's dundruff while on the move



Yeah if you do that they'll reroute you directly to the nick, or if all drugs are decriminalised by then, the mandatory substance education centre.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 18, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Yeah if you do that they'll reroute you directly to the nick, or if all drugs are decriminalised by then, the mandatory substance education centre.



which just happens to be Sennybridge 😈.
😬  the showbizz sherbert will probably get you halfway over the assualt course dont worry its character forming and sufferings good for the soul


----------



## hash tag (Sep 19, 2020)

I know not driving but BBC News - Woman falls from car on M25 filming Snapchat video








						Woman falls from car on M25 filming Snapchat video
					

It is "only by luck" the passenger wasn't seriously injured or killed, police say.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (Sep 20, 2020)

Killer driver lied about van being stolen after much-loved cyclist died in collision in Hartlepool
					

A van driver has admitted causing the death of a cyclist in Hartlepool and then trying to cover it up by reporting to police his vehicle had been stolen.




					www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (Sep 22, 2020)




----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 22, 2020)

Badgers said:


>



Cool story, bro. 
So much of my time is spent ignoring overpaid councillors and their excuses for doing fuck all.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 22, 2020)

Cyclist taken to hospital after being attacked on street
					

Two men got out of a car and punched and kicked him



					www.leicestermercury.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Sep 22, 2020)

That may of course be just part of the story, though I doubt it.
During these difficult times, something tells me I wish I were still riding.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 22, 2020)

hash tag said:


> That may of course be just part of the story, though I doubt it.
> During these difficult times, something tells me I wish I were still riding.


Whatever the rest of the story that is not acceptable.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 22, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Whatever the rest of the story that is not acceptable.


I used try and ride about 500 miles per week; mix commuting, socializing and training and reckoned on one hospital
visit a year, usually having slept on the "injury" overnight to see how it was going. Stitches just the once which was
lucky, I should have been killed racing down South Norwood Hill, the other times broken bones.
I moved, my job moved, I got married, my new job needed a car so the bikes faded away...I still have one or two
not serviceable or practical mind.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 22, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Whatever the rest of the story that is not acceptable.


How can you possibly know that? The cyclist may have just mugged and beaten up an old lady or kicked a child in the face.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 22, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> How can you possibly know that? The cyclist may have just mugged and beaten up an old lady or kicked a child in the face.


Don't talk shit mate. It is not who you are.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 22, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Don't talk shit mate. It is not who you are.


Maybe not but I fail to see how it has anything to do with driving standards. What next, bank robbers using cars to get to the bank?
Or... Bank Robber Escapes On Bicycle, Arrested: Police
Maybe 'drive-by shooting involved a car'?
Or was it a bike... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...treet-in-prince-george-b-c-say-rcmp-1.5728436

Being a cunt isn't confined to the realm of motorists.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 23, 2020)

Cyclist says his shoulder was broken when bus driver veered into him on purpose
					

Passengers pleaded with driver to stop after incident in east London last Wednesday




					road.cc


----------



## Badgers (Sep 23, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Maybe not but I fail to see how it has anything to do with driving standards. What next, bank robbers using cars to get to the bank?
> Or... Bank Robber Escapes On Bicycle, Arrested: Police
> Maybe 'drive-by shooting involved a car'?
> Or was it a bike... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...treet-in-prince-george-b-c-say-rcmp-1.5728436
> ...



If I was a betting man then I would be confident that drivers are far far worse.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 23, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Cool story, bro.
> So much of my time is spent ignoring overpaid councillors and their excuses for doing fuck all.



Local councillors don't get paid.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 23, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Local councillors don't get paid.


Then he's still getting paid too much, the crying bastard.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 23, 2020)

Badgers said:


> If I was a betting man then I would be confident that drivers are far far worse.


But not as stupid. I mean who uses a push bike as a getaway vehicle 🤣


----------



## Badgers (Sep 23, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> But not as stupid. I mean who uses a push bike as a getaway vehicle 🤣


Fit, healthy people


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 23, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Fit, healthy people


"Just you wait there, officer. I'll force my way through your road block once I've put my chain back on... Ding ding"  🤣


----------



## Almor (Sep 23, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> "Just you wait there, officer. I'll force my way through your road block once I've put my chain back on... Ding ding"  🤣



I saw a police car trying to chase a cyclist in Stevenage, the cyclist got away by crossing the road a few times, faster up and down the curbs than the car 🙂

I guess the police weren't that committed tbf


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 24, 2020)

This has just popped-up on my local rag's website, this happened in Brighton, the van driver was texting when he crashed, and lost an arm.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 24, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> This has just popped-up on my local rag's website, this happened in Brighton, the van driver was texting when he crashed, and lost an arm.



At least he didn't hurt anyone else. Learned a painful and expensive lesson too.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 24, 2020)

Badgers said:


> At least he didn't hurt anyone else. Learned a painful and expensive lesson too.




He's gonna need to steer with his knees in future when he's texting.


----------



## bimble (Sep 24, 2020)

This, it is a vision of how things could be. 
I love his videos very much. 
Not recommended for those in a hurry though.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 24, 2020)

Badgers said:


> At least he didn't hurt anyone else. Learned a painful and expensive lesson too.


An expensive lesson and won't be doing that again.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 24, 2020)

bimble said:


> This, it is a vision of how things could be.
> I love his videos very much.
> Not recommended for those in a hurry though.




Chanel the rage in to something creative, like battle-rap. Or crochet.


----------



## 2hats (Sep 24, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Chanel the rage


Bottle it and sell it as a perfume?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 24, 2020)

2hats said:


> Bottle it and sell it as a perfume?


Rage, from Chanel. Testosterone infused fragrance for men.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2020)

Child seriously hurt in horror crash in Leeds after car hits tree
					

A man was also injured in the incident on Spencer Place in Leeds on Sunday



					www.leeds-live.co.uk
				






> A white Nissan Navara collided with a blue Volvo V40 at a junction. The Volvo then hit a tree.


----------



## HAL9000 (Sep 28, 2020)




----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 29, 2020)

HAL9000 said:


>



That'll buff out.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 29, 2020)




----------



## Badgers (Oct 1, 2020)

_A motorist struck a car in front at a “staggering” 143mph to send it spinning into a tunnel wall, killing its driver._









						Jailed: 4x4 driver who killed man in horror 143mph tunnel smash
					

A motorist struck a car in front at a “staggering” 143mph to send it spinning into a tunnel wall, killing its driver.




					www.standard.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Oct 1, 2020)

Surely, that deserves a driving ban for life.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Surely, that deserves a driving ban for life.


You would think so eh?


----------



## hash tag (Oct 1, 2020)

Defo. But we dont do that here.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Surely, that deserves a driving ban for life.




Four years behind the door, then a six year ban. His actions were pretty much guaranteed to kill someone. Death by dangerous driving needs to be totally overhauled, what is the difference between what he did and manslaughter?


----------



## hash tag (Oct 1, 2020)

Very little. Are you sure it's 4 years inside and then the ban as opposed to running concurrently?
Even so, I still think that is worthy of a much longer ban.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 1, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Very little. Are you sure it's 4 years inside and then the ban as opposed to running concurrently?
> Even so, I still think that is worthy of a much longer ban.



His sentence is 8 years, unless he behaves very badly he'll be out in four. Driving bans now start on the day you are released from the nick, until relatively recently they started they day they were given, leading to some bans expiring before the person had come out of prison, so proper chocolate teapots.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 1, 2020)

Badgers said:


> _A motorist struck a car in front at a “staggering” 143mph to send it spinning into a tunnel wall, killing its driver._
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was chatting on here recently about that stretch of road, worst driving I've ever seen, loads of dickheads use it as a racetrack at any time of the day.

That prick should be sent down for a very long time.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 4, 2020)




----------



## T & P (Oct 4, 2020)

Blyat indeed


----------



## Marty1 (Oct 4, 2020)

Badgers said:


>




You should see the amount of delivery vans with knocks and scrapes on them - all causing damage to infrastructure.

The root cause is over worked drivers, capitalism and conspicuous consumerism.


----------



## dervish (Oct 5, 2020)

Badgers said:


>



Shoulda been done for not wearing his seatbelt properly as well


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 5, 2020)

Badgers said:


>



That's just a typical day in a Russian driver's life.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 11, 2020)

This is an interesting one, she denied death by careless driving, but the jury found her guilty. Suspended sentence and a 12 month driving ban.









						Driver who killed cyclist Paul James handed suspended sentence
					

Popular councillor and former soldier Paul James was killed when he was knocked from his bike while training for a charity cycle ride.



					www.walesonline.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 11, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> This is an interesting one, she denied death by careless driving, but the jury found her guilty. Suspended sentence and a 12 month driving ban.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More interesting is why they tried to prosecute the second driver if they believed that the fault lay with the first.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 11, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> More interesting is why they tried to prosecute the second driver if they believed that the fault lay with the first.


They could be guilty also, but i was talking about the non-existent sentence.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 11, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> They could be guilty also, but i was talking about the non-existent sentence.


What do you think the sentence should have been?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 11, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> What do you think the sentence should have been?


She should have done time and had a few years driving ban. It’s bad driving to the point where she’s killed someone. There’s responsibilities and consequences that should come with driving a car.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 17, 2020)

Just 6 points and a meagre £200 for using your phone while driving. It will barely affect drivers of company cars 
BBC News - Drivers to be banned from picking up mobile phones








						Drivers to be banned from picking up mobile phones
					

The change to UK law ends a loophole allowing drivers to use phones to take photos or play games.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 17, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Just 6 points and a meagre £200 for using your phone while driving. It will barely affect drivers of company cars
> BBC News - Drivers to be banned from picking up mobile phones
> 
> 
> ...


That's been the penalty for ages. All that's changed is that it will now also apply to handling the phone for any use, not just for texting or speaking, as is the case currently. Six points is quite a hefty disincentive. No idea what you mean by company car drivers not being affected.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 17, 2020)

Company car drivers dont have to worry about insurance, they are normally on a corporate policy. If I got points my premiums would rocket....


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 17, 2020)

They have to worry about losing their licences though. It's a daft argument. You may as well say that company car drivers are 'barely affected' by any penalty that involves licence points.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 17, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Company car drivers dont have to worry about insurance, they are normally on a corporate policy. If I got points my premiums would rocket....


I think being banned might cause problems.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 28, 2020)

Perhaps there should be a thread for the stupidity of drivers  








						Husband and wife's uninsured cars seized
					

Police seized the wife's car after she arrived to pick up her husband whose own car had been seized.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 28, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Perhaps there should be a thread for the stupidity of drivers
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Husband on a provisional too, selfish cunts.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 28, 2020)

Fuck'em. Shame their cars are only worth about a fiver each. They could've been auctioned off for something good.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 28, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Fuck'em. Shame their cars are only worth about a fiver each. They could've been auctioned off for something good.



They're not total sheds though.  A few grand each.  Pretty mad they wouldn't bother with insurance on either, with all the ANPR cameras around these days it was only a matter of time.


----------



## Marty1 (Oct 28, 2020)

Amazon are introducing/enforcing this driving app that monitors the safety of drivers through their android or iPhone device whilst working:




Spoiler







Looking at the device technical requirements to run this app suggests it will be data intensive and could cause potential lagging/slowing of device.

This app may well give Amazon some insight into the driving habits of a small handful of drivers who are able to complete a 9hr route in 5-6 hrs tho.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 28, 2020)

If its data heavy I wonder how effective that will be for rural areas what with 4g still being pretty shit in a lot of areas.


----------



## High Voltage (Oct 28, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> If its data heavy I wonder how effective that will be for rural areas what with 4g still being pretty shit in a lot of areas.


Or where we are not even single g - that'll be interesting


----------



## Marty1 (Oct 28, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> If its data heavy I wonder how effective that will be for rural areas what with 4g still being pretty shit in a lot of areas.



Amazon don’t care, that’s for the drivers to deal with in their eyes.

Tbf, Amazon introducing this app is likely just them covering their backsides in case some driver ploughs thru somebody’s bay window whilst they’re watching TV.

The real issue which Amazon don’t want to acknowledge is that they are the root cause of bad driving by having inhuman productivity expectations which can lead drivers to drive badly - mostly driving too fast.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 28, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> If its data heavy I wonder how effective that will be for rural areas what with 4g still being pretty shit in a lot of areas.





Marty1 said:


> Amazon don’t care, that’s for the drivers to deal with in their eyes.
> 
> Tbf, Amazon introducing this app is likely just them covering their backsides in case some driver ploughs thru somebody’s bay window whilst they’re watching TV.
> 
> The real issue which Amazon don’t want to acknowledge is that they are the root cause of bad driving by having inhuman productivity expectations which can lead drivers to drive badly - mostly driving too fast.




I'd hope it has an option to upload data when on wifi so you can upload it each evening when you get home rather than needing to do it on the road. I'm guessing that what it's doing is using GPS and accelerometers to measure someone's driving so doesn't need a lot (if any) data whilst it's running, though it collects a lot on the device whilst it does.

I'd like to think the data from this app might prove to amazon that you can't drive legally & safely with the workload they give drivers and that they need to reduce that, but that'd mean Jeff Bezos not getting another ivory backscratcher.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 21, 2020)

This is NOT a laughing matter








						Porsche driver hits SUV and then lands on another car while attempting to park
					

A video of the Porsche Taycan accelerating forwards over the wall before crashing onto another car on a residential street in Manningtree, Essex has gone viral




					www.mirror.co.uk
				



tps


----------



## T & P (Nov 21, 2020)

It's astonishing how many high performance cars are bought by people with terrible driving skills, who invariably end up crashing them in low speed simple manvouvres.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 21, 2020)

This is impressive Car driven away with front door lodged in windscreen after crashing into house


----------



## T & P (Nov 21, 2020)

I am going to guess Bahnhof Strasse ’s reaction to the above news, and  eagerly wait to see if I’m right

A testimony to the excellent design and build quality of Audis


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 21, 2020)

T & P said:


> I am going to guess Bahnhof Strasse ’s reaction to the above news, and  eagerly wait to see if I’m right
> 
> A testimony to the excellent design and build quality of Audis



Lesser marques would see a door embedded as an issue, but road-owning Audis are clearly a cut above


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 22, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Lesser marques


Ladas?


----------



## hash tag (Nov 23, 2020)

T & P said:


> I am going to guess Bahnhof Strasse ’s reaction to the above news, and  eagerly wait to see if I’m right
> 
> A testimony to the excellent design and build quality of Audis


Funnily enough I see Bahnhof Strasse has had his eye on another car


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 23, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Funnily enough I see Bahnhof Strasse has had his eye on another car



Was looking at the Volvo, but will still with the four rings, guy in the office next to me has just got an etron, so I reckon I can get an RS6 under Spymaster's emission sharing scheme


----------



## hash tag (Nov 23, 2020)

Nobody ever died in a V90. Probably driven by drivers who err on the side of caution. Would it help the missus though


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 23, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Nobody ever died in a V90. Probably driven by drivers who err on the side of caution. Would it help the missus though




This would probably be best for her...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 16, 2020)

Ingrid Messenger death crash: Tony Packenham jailed
					

Tony Packenham was driving at nearly 80mph when his Land Rover struck a car, killing a 13-year-old.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




80mph in a 60 with wet roads in a Land Rover Defender, kills a 13 year old girl, seriously injures her mum and sister. Perverts the course of justice by removing the memory card from his dash-cam and lobbing it in a bush, yet in spite of this he's remorseful, so gets 4.5 years, out in 2. Fucking joke.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 16, 2020)

That took some presence of mind. Kills one, injuries two and still had presence of mind to remove the dash cam memory card. Callous bastard.
That must be worth appealing.


----------



## T & P (Dec 16, 2020)

dp


----------



## T & P (Dec 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Ingrid Messenger death crash: Tony Packenham jailed
> 
> 
> Tony Packenham was driving at nearly 80mph when his Land Rover struck a car, killing a 13-year-old.
> ...


That’s cunting disgraceful- people caught looting in the London riots got handed out the same sentence ffs.

If I were an assassin I would choose a car as my weapon. That way if I was ever caught I’d be looking at a manslaughter charge rather than murder and 15 years inside


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 16, 2020)




----------



## 2hats (Dec 19, 2020)

A winterval present for Audi* drivers everywhere.








						Cameras fight growing danger of tailgating
					

New roadside cameras could be introduced across England under plans to target potentially deadly tailgating on motorways, The Times has learnt.Highways England said it was analysing a trial of the technology on a small section of the M1 through Northamptonshire with a view to launching it elsewhere




					www.thetimes.co.uk
				





Spoiler: Full article.



Cameras fight growing danger of tailgating
Graeme Paton, Transport Correspondent, Saturday December 19 2020, 12.01am, The Times

New roadside cameras could be introduced across England under plans to target potentially deadly tailgating on motorways, The Times has learnt.
Highways England said it was analysing a trial of the technology on a small section of the M1 through Northamptonshire with a view to launching it elsewhere on the network.
Drivers are being issued with warning letters under the crackdown, which began after a rise in the number of fatal and serious crashes caused by vehicles following too close to the one in front.
In only two months the cameras have been used to identify 26,000 tailgating cars, vans, trucks and buses, figures show. It is equivalent to 419 a day.
The figures, which cover the period from early October to the first week of this month, show that 3,700 offenders have been caught multiple times.
In some cases, the very worst drivers have been clocked tailgating other vehicles as many as 12 times on one stretch of road.
The cameras, developed by the consultants Aecom, have been installed on a 150m stretch of the motorway. They operate in a similar way to speed cameras — identifying number plates and taking readings of the distance between vehicles.
A series of cameras is deployed in unison to determine whether the tailgating is a result of deliberate action or conventional manoeuvres such as overtaking, changing lanes or sudden braking.
Highways England said it was sending out warning letters to drivers “advising them they were too close to another vehicle and highlighting the dangers”.
It told The Times that the trial would last six months, adding: “The results will then be analysed to see if it does lead to a change in drivers’ behaviour and reduced incidents of tailgating. If successful, the cameras may be rolled out to other areas.”
Drivers can be fined £100 and handed three penalty points for tailgating, although the cameras are not currently used for prosecutions.
The move follows the publication of figures from the Department for Transport showing that serious crashes caused by tailgating drivers have jumped to their highest level for at least seven years.
Last year, 28 fatal and 599 serious road crashes were logged in which “following too close” was identified as a contributory factor. The total, 627, was up from 444 a year earlier and 483 in 2013.
Particular concerns have been raised over heavy goods vehicles driving dangerously close to cars past stretches of motorway roadworks where the speed limit is just 50 or 60mph. Edmund King, president of the AA, said: “Tailgating, even below the speed limit, is incredibly dangerous. Hopefully the presence of tailgate cameras will convince drivers to stick to the two-second rule because the consequences of driving too close can be fatal.”
Caroline Layton, who works as a data and intelligence analyst for Highways England, told how she feared her car would be “hit and crushed” as she was tailgated by a lorry while driving through roadworks at junction 4 of the M27 near Southampton.
Video captured on her rear dashcam showed the lorry feet away from her car with the driver flashing his lights and gesticulating before eventually overtaking.
She said: “He came up really close, just a couple of metres behind. I thought I had to slow down because if it hit me at 50mph I would be crushed. This was very intimidating behaviour and likely to cause a crash and serious injury.
“If anyone had stopped in front of me, he would have gone into the back of my car and I would have been sandwiched in the middle.” Under the Highway Code, motorists are supposed to leave at least a two-second gap between themselves and the vehicle in front, with a longer distance on the fastest roads.
On some roads painted chevrons indicate the distance motorists should keep between them and the vehicle in front. Studies have suggested that they can significantly reduce accidents.
The RAC advises tailgated motorists against slowing down in an effort to force the other driver to do the same. Instead they suggest remaining calm and shifting lanes or pulling over to let the other driver pass.
Jeremy Phillips, Highways England head of road safety, said: “These new cameras have, sadly, highlighted just how many people are driving too close on our roads.
“We understand that most tailgating is unintentional by drivers who are simply unaware they are dangerously invading someone else’s space. But not leaving enough space between you and the vehicle in front can be very frightening and intimidating — it could also prove fatal.”


(* and fellow travellers).


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 20, 2020)

Kill someone and try to cover it up?. 30 months.









						Learner driver who killed woman and swapped seats with boyfriend is jailed
					

The woman got her boyfriend to drive the car away and told neighbours there was a hit-and-run.




					metro.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 20, 2020)

sleaterkinney said:


> Kill someone and try to cover it up?. 30 months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And an 18 month driving ban, don't forget that, pour encourager les autres...


----------



## weltweit (Dec 20, 2020)

I am not great at judging distance. I usually leave more space than I anticipated between my and neighbouring cars when parking. I notice when I get out that a gap I thought was quite tight is actually 3 feet or more.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 22, 2020)

Keep your distance people


----------



## marty21 (Dec 22, 2020)

Dark days hash tag


----------



## hash tag (Dec 22, 2020)

Forget the rings, check that reg


----------



## nick (Dec 22, 2020)

I call fake.  
that reg belongs to a black 2 litre merc.

</missing the joke entirely>


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 22, 2020)

2hats said:


> “We understand that most tailgating is unintentional by drivers who are simply unaware they are dangerously invading someone else’s space. But not leaving enough space between you and the vehicle in front can be very frightening and intimidating — it could also prove fatal.”



Horseshit. These wankers know what they're doing, and if they don't then they should be banned anyway for not knowing how to drive. Vans with their headlights on full beam are the worst, they're basically forcing you to drive half blind.

My commute involves a long rural road with no overtaking opportunities. If someone tailgates me I will slow to a crawl and waste a measurable chunk of their day.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 22, 2020)

Drivers in UK who kill someone get a ban for a few years. Whereas in Norway, drive stupidly and get a life ban   Petter Northug, Norway cross-country skiing champion, to be jailed


----------



## T & P (Dec 22, 2020)

We could reach a compromise and allow tailgating on the middle lane of motorways only, to deal with middle lane hoggers...


----------



## hash tag (Dec 25, 2020)

Any cues what car this is that's just gone up in smoke?


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 25, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Any cues what car this is that's just gone up in smoke?View attachment 245391


It's a hot hatch.


----------



## nick (Dec 25, 2020)

Fuego. ?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 25, 2020)

firebird etc


----------



## dessiato (Dec 26, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Any cues what car this is that's just gone up in smoke?View attachment 245391


That‘s the hot question.


----------



## dessiato (Dec 26, 2020)

Anyway, now I’ve got a Spanish licence I am allowed to drive like a twat, and to park anywhere I like as long as I have the hazards on. I can now park across three or four parking bays with impunity, or double/triple park, even on roundabouts, and speed limits are all x2.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 26, 2020)

dessiato said:


> Anyway, now I’ve got a Spanish licence I am allowed to drive like a twat, and to park anywhere I like as long as I have the hazards on.



That’s a pet hate of mine here too. Why do people think putting the hazard lights on immediately absolves them of parking restrictions?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 26, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> That’s a pet hate of mine here too. Why do people think putting the hazard lights on immediately absolves them of parking restrictions?



Ben Elton mused that perhaps whacking the hazards on may absolve you of other offences and was waiting for the first bank robber to use that in his defence...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 26, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> That’s a pet hate of mine here too. Why do people think putting the hazard lights on immediately absolves them of parking restrictions?


Park anywhere lights, as my brother calls them. He also hates people who use them.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 28, 2020)

I never really saw people doing that much until I had some site work in Liverpool, they all do it there, every row of shops had a row of cars outside blinking away. Total pisstake.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 28, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> I never really saw people doing that much until I had some site work in Liverpool, they all do it there, every row of shops had a row of cars outside blinking away. Total pisstake.




When there’s some dickhead with the hazards on parked in front of another car it gives the bonus of looking like they want to pull out.


----------



## T & P (Dec 29, 2020)

It's done to protect other road users not paying due care and attention from crashing into the stationary vehicle. People should be grateful, not angry


----------



## hash tag (Dec 29, 2020)

It's a blinking nuisance if you ask me, I say its a blinking nuisance.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Dec 30, 2020)




----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 30, 2020)

Outside Lidl tonight. The red bollard things are no-parking areas.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 2, 2021)

Crikey Man arrested after police car repeatedly rammed in Coventry


----------



## T & P (Jan 3, 2021)

hash tag said:


> View attachment 246684
> Crikey Man arrested after police car repeatedly rammed in Coventry



At least if he does time for it he’ll be treated like a hero inside


----------



## hash tag (Jan 4, 2021)

Oh dear. Put a wealthy young man in a lambo and maybe some alcohol in the young man


----------



## T & P (Jan 4, 2021)

Oh what a shame. Nevermind...


----------



## hash tag (Jan 4, 2021)

Fwiw, he team are not exactly doing very well at the moment. They are in fact Rock bottom


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 8, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> What do you think the sentence should have been?



A Palestinian Hanger, then the bastinado while she's up there.


----------



## HAL9000 (Jan 11, 2021)

> A motorist caught speeding at 130mph (209km/h) in "very thick fog" with young children in the car told officers he thought it was fine because he was "a good driver "



Everyone knows that people who drive BMW's are good drivers









						A1(M): Driver caught at 130mph in fog with children in car
					

The man tells police he thinks his speed is acceptable as he is "a good driver".



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Jan 11, 2021)

I was testing my eyesight officer..
..
..

I really couldn't see anything wrong


----------



## hash tag (Jan 12, 2021)

HGV driver 3 times over limit   Lorry driver caught with lager on London's North Circular was three times over the drink drive limit - BroRead.com


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 13, 2021)

Not really driving standards but...is it even possible to buy a new car that doesn't have a fucking video screen in the middle of the dashboard? 

Not that I can afford a new car but still.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 13, 2021)

HAL9000 said:


> Everyone knows that people who drive BMW's are good drivers
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Call social services I reckon.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 13, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not really driving standards but...is it even possible to buy a new car that doesn't have a fucking video screen in the middle of the dashboard?
> 
> Not that I can afford a new car but still.



I get where you're coming from but they're ubiquitous now.  Then again they do add some very useful functions.  The rear view parking camera is useful and radios have been in cars forever no so its just transferring the info from a tiny screen to a bigger screen.  Also the whole sat nav thing, is it any more distracting to look at a screen then it is to look at your phone in a cradle?

I'm yet to understand why a car needs wifi.  Useful if you're renting a car in a foreign country I suppose.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 13, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not really driving standards but...is it even possible to buy a new car that doesn't have a fucking video screen in the middle of the dashboard?
> 
> Not that I can afford a new car but still.





Teaboy said:


> I get where you're coming from but they're ubiquitous now.  Then again they do add some very useful functions.  The rear view parking camera is useful and radios have been in cars forever no so its just transferring the info from a tiny screen to a bigger screen.  Also the whole sat nav thing, is it any more distracting to look at a screen then it is to look at your phone in a cradle?
> 
> I'm yet to understand why a car needs wifi.  Useful if you're renting a car in a foreign country I suppose.


I've said it before, the screens should be inoperable if the vehicle is in motion.
There are so many different variations.
I know of a Fiat where you can do everything at any speed except link your phone to it when moving.
The Mazda screen becomes inoperable above 4 MPH, but still has many other controls you can use, including setting a new
address in the sat nav!
A year old VW I know, you can do anything at any speed on the infotainment screen.
I have seen a Merc with "dual images". From the drivers side of the screen you see one thing, from the passenger side you
can see/watch something totally different, including films!
Time to call time on this.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> I'm yet to understand why a car needs wifi.  Useful if you're renting a car in a foreign country I suppose.


Mine's got an ejector seat type covered button. If you press it, it calls the emergency services, gives them your exact location, and opens a phone line to them.  I find it really difficult not to press it just to see if it works.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2021)

hash tag said:


> I've said it before, the screens should be inoperable if the vehicle is in motion.


The TV function should be, and is on most cars that I'm aware of. Otherwise if it's the radio or temperature controls your looking at it makes no difference if they're on a central screen or several smaller ones dotted about the car.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2021)

.


----------



## T & P (Jan 13, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not really driving standards but...is it even possible to buy a new car that doesn't have a fucking video screen in the middle of the dashboard?
> 
> Not that I can afford a new car but still.


The few cars that have a digital screen that can be used to broadcast 'entertainment' are designed so the images on the screen are invisible from the driver's seat- at least when it is showing video/ TV/ films. Or as Spymaster said, they do not work when the car is rolling.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 14, 2021)

Sliding in the snow is one thing.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 15, 2021)

In Leicester a few days ago  

Impatient driver smashes through gap between two cars in Leicester, UK


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 17, 2021)

Serves about six moths for each life?. Already had been disqualified.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 26, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> Serves about six moths for each life?. Already had been disqualified.




I will never understand why it's not manslaughter if you're driving a car.

Nor why someone who kills people and then flees the scene ever needs to be allowed to drive again. Is it even possible to get a lifetime ban from driving?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 26, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> I will never understand why it's not manslaughter if you're driving a car.


There is a more serious charge of death by dangerous driving, but the cps probably didn't think that speeding through a red light would get past a jury as being dangerous.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 28, 2021)




----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 30, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> I will never understand


We know...


----------



## hash tag (Jan 30, 2021)

A "totter"? New one on me. Two hits in one journey? Some people...sigh.   Susannah Constantine ‘about to lose driving licence’ after speeding offences


----------



## T & P (Jan 30, 2021)

hash tag said:


> A "totter"? New one on me. Two hits in one journey? Some people...sigh.   Susannah Constantine ‘about to lose driving licence’ after speeding offences


I absolutely call bullshit on one of the fines being issued for being just 2 mph over the limit.

Unless the DVLA has some kind of policy in place whereby people who keep racking up points get a zero-tolerance approach to further breaches.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 30, 2021)

It does not.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 30, 2021)

She might of course be exaggerating with just 2 mph over the limit. It's not like no one has ever said that before.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 30, 2021)

Twat in a criminally liable shirt said...


“I got two in one journey going down to Cornwall on the A303 and I was only like two miles an hour on one stretch and four miles an hour over on another.”

Asked how she managed to beat the traffic, she said: “I went very early in the morning. I left at four o’clock in the morning. I got cameraed. That sinking feeling when the flash goes off.”

Clearly the sinking feeling didn’t last long enough to stop her blatting it through another speed camera a few minutes later


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 30, 2021)

She’s a triple cunt as I once done Barnstable to Walton-on-Thames in two hours twenty minutes using the 303 and didn’t get flashed once...


----------



## T & P (Jan 30, 2021)

I thought perhaps it’d been a mobile unit, whether a police car/van or a handheld speed gun, but there’s just no way a fixed roadside camera would be set to trigger at 2 mph over. Perhaps an urban location with a 20 mph limit. But on an A road with a much higher speed  limit? Utter bollocks.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 30, 2021)

To get points once is careless, perhaps. Twice is stupid after that, wreckless, madness or whatever. 3 or more tickets in a shortish space of time and you deserve to lose your licence.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 31, 2021)

T & P said:


> I thought perhaps it’d been a mobile unit, whether a police car/van or a handheld speed gun, but there’s just no way a fixed roadside camera would be set to trigger at 2 mph over. Perhaps an urban location with a 20 mph limit. But on an A road with a much higher speed  limit? Utter bollocks.



most likely she means she was 2mph over the 10%+2mph (?) leeway that is (usually/supposedly) given beyond the actual speed limit.
or she's just straight up lying.


----------



## platinumsage (Jan 31, 2021)

It’s a well-known fact that everyone who complains about receiving a speeding ticket misremembers the actual speed they were doing.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> It’s a well-known fact that everyone who complains about receiving a speeding ticket misremembers the actual speed they were doing.


Well they tell you what your speed was. It’s on the ticket you receive in the post.

it’s not impossible that she was doing the speeds she says. The 10+2 tolerance isn’t mandatory, it’s at the discretion of the police and some forces do reduce or remove it if they’re having a crack down. I’ve had a 54 in a 50 limit off a mobile unit in Cambridge.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 31, 2021)

I want to see some paperwork!


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

Also, on a speed awareness course everyone in the room was told to hold up their hands and put them down when the instructor said the speed they were doing over the limit. He then counted down from 10. Most hands went down pretty quickly but there were a few at 3 and 4 so it does happen. This was before widespread use of the 20 limit.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 31, 2021)

1 MPH over the limit is breaking the law!
The thing that I used to see a lot was I am a law abiding citizen Etc. never done anything wrong in my life and
Ive now got my first ticket......what it really means is you have never been caught before.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 31, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Also, on a speed awareness course everyone in the room was told to hold up their hands and put them down when the instructor said the speed they were doing over the limit. He then counted down from 10. Most hands went down pretty quickly but there were a few at 3 and 4 so it does happen. This was before widespread use of the 20 limit.


People have been banging on about how they were done for a mere 1mph over since the invention of the sun, but I've never seen any of them prove it, including in the more obvious places like a Pistonheads argument. I know that some forces don't or didn't comply with the ACPO guidelines, Brunstrom was infamous for it in Wales years ago, but almost all of them do.

I think what's more likely is even after being done for it and told as much, people still don't know what the speed limit was, so get in a flap about being done for 41mph... in a 30.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

mauvais said:


> People have been banging on about how they were done for a mere 1mph over since the invention of the sun, but I've never seen any of them prove it, including in the more obvious places like a Pistonheads argument. I know that some forces don't or didn't comply with the ACPO guidelines, Brunstrom was infamous for it in Wales years ago, but almost all of them do.
> 
> I think what's more likely is even after being done for it and told as much, people still don't know what the speed limit was, so get in a flap about being done for 41mph... in a 30.


I’m sure that does happen but as I said, there were people on that speed awareness course with their hands still up at 3 and 4 before 20mph limits were a thing. I don’t think it’s quite as uncommon as people think.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 31, 2021)

Occam's razor says you went on a course filled with liars and failed to appropriately shame them.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

It’d be interesting to find out how many people get done at what speeds. I reckon you’d be surprised. After all, the plod are perfectly within their rights to bust folk for 1mph plus. I actually think it’s _highly_ _likely_ and completely unsurprising that forces will occasionally reduce the leeway to scoop up a load of folk who are building the 10+2 into their driving.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 31, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> There is a more serious charge of death by dangerous driving, but the cps probably didn't think that speeding through a red light would get past a jury as being dangerous.



Shouldn't be open to interpretation. Nor should there be a distinction between 'careless' and 'dangerous', obviously doing anything careless with a car is dangerous.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Shouldn't be open to interpretation. Nor should there be a distinction between 'careless' and 'dangerous', obviously doing anything careless with a car is dangerous.


There has to be a distinction in the severity of offences. Careless/dangerous/reckless does that. Unless you want to prosecute someone who accidentally slowly bumbles through a red light without any consequences, the same as you would a hooligan who drives through it at 90 whilst racing his mate.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 31, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> There has to be a distinction in the severity of offences. Careless/dangerous/reckless does that. Unless you want to prosecute someone who accidentally slowly bumbles through a red light without any consequences, the same as you would a hooligan who drives through it at 90 whilst racing his mate.



The distinction comes from adding 'causing death by...'

If someone died, how could it not have been dangerous?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> The distinction comes from adding 'causing death by...'
> 
> If someone died, how could it not have been dangerous?


Ok but your post reads like you’re objecting to the difference between careless and dangerous.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 31, 2021)

The CPS needs to be able to secure more convictions for dangerous, as it is they seem to feel that is often too difficult and settle for careless which sees the offender get off almost scot free.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jan 31, 2021)

I was drawn to look it up because I've had speeding points but never anything more ..  I unproudly admit more by luck than intention, when I look at the definitions from this solicitor ...

*Careless driving*

Careless driving is when the standard of driving ‘falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver’.

There are various situations that might amount to careless driving. In each, the driver will either be regarded as driving without due care and attention, or as driving without reasonable consideration for other road users. Examples of careless driving include -


Tailgating
Overtaking on the inside
Running a red light
Driving while distracted
Sudden breaking

*Dangerous driving*

Dangerous driving is when the standard of driving ‘falls *far *below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver’.

So, there is just one word which separates dangerous driving from careless driving - ‘far’. This might not seem like much, but in reality, the two offences are very different. Namely, dangerous driving is much more serious. Examples of dangerous driving include -


Racing or driving aggressively
Dangerous overtaking
Driving while under the influence of drink or drugs
Driving despite knowing you are not fit to drive
Driving a vehicle that you know has a defect


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 31, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> There has to be a distinction in the severity of offences. Careless/dangerous/reckless does that. Unless you want to prosecute someone who accidentally slowly bumbles through a red light without any consequences, the same as you would a hooligan who drives through it at 90 whilst racing his mate.


The issue is it going before a jury and their idea of careless / dangerous driving. In that case they might not think 10 over the speed limit and going through a red was dangerous.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> The issue is it going before a jury and their idea of careless / dangerous driving. In that case they might not think 10 over the speed limit and going through a red was dangerous.


The jury don't decide what the driver is tried for. In the case of careless driving it's not even heard by a jury, just magistrates.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 31, 2021)

Even the most jaded mags would probably think a sub-ACPO speeding ticket to be of questionable public interest and wonder why the police are wasting their time.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

mauvais said:


> Even the most jaded mags would probably think a sub-ACPO speeding ticket to be of questionable public interest and wonder why the police are wasting their time.


Hardly any of them will get to the magistrates. Most people will pay the fine, take the points, and be done with it.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 31, 2021)

Yeah, but the fact that we never hear about any of them being challenged and thrown out by mags, despite a whole nerd-world dedicated to battling this stuff, suggests there aren't any.

10%+2 isn't just a public allowance, it's because it would be too onerous to show that the measuring equipment was constantly calibrated and accurate.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 31, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Ok but your post reads like you’re objecting to the difference between careless and dangerous.



I am. Because careless driving is always dangerous. As evidenced by the fact there are many convictions for 'causing death by careless driving'.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

mauvais said:


> Yeah, but the fact that we never hear about any of them being challenged and thrown out by mags, despite a whole nerd-world dedicated to battling this stuff, suggests there aren't any.
> 
> 10%+2 isn't just a public allowance, it's because it would be too onerous to show that the measuring equipment was constantly calibrated and accurate.


Nah. The machine's allowance is 2% or 3%. There's a fair bit more leeway built in than that and the rest is because they don't really want to be busting people for doing just a few miles an hour over the limit.. The fact that you don't hear about them being challenged and thrown out by magistrates suggests they're either upheld and not thrown out or just not reported. Not that it doesn't happen. I'm sure it does.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> I am. Because careless driving is always dangerous.


Then you're missing the point of how and why motoring offences are charged. See Mojo Pixie's post above.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jan 31, 2021)

It's important to recognize that legal definitions of words aren't always the same as dictionary definitions, or even 'common understanding'.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 31, 2021)

Yeah, although I'd agree that "causing death by..." doesn't really need the distinction, there should be more than one level of charge for general offences and careless/dangerous seems fine to me.

The issue really lies in part with the wording of the law, and how juries see "dangerous" driving - they will tend not to convict if it's something they think "well, I could have done that, and I'm not a dangerous driver" (
because nobody thinks of themselves as a bad driver, let alone a dangerous one) and partly with the CPS unwillingness to attempt prosecutions for dangerous driving, which then creates a case history of stuff that should be dangerous driving being convicted as careless driving and setting precedents for future cases ("oh, says the CPS, look at this past case which is similar, that was careless driving so this should be too).


----------



## nick (Jan 31, 2021)

mojo pixy said:


> I was drawn to look it up because I've had speeding points but never anything more ..  I unproudly admit more by luck than intention, when I look at the definitions from this solicitor ...
> 
> *Careless driving*
> 
> ...


Maybe it's just me being an asshole, but I'm slightly suspicious whether the solicitor has got the legal niceties of the definitions, if they can't spell "braking" correctly  (I followed the link Mojo, it's not you, its in the source )


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 31, 2021)

Not sure why so many drivers around here are so fond of overtaking just as the vehicle in front gets to the crest of a hill.  If you can't see the road ahead, don't overtake?


----------



## mojo pixy (Jan 31, 2021)

nick said:


> Maybe it's just me being an asshole, but I'm slightly suspicious whether the solicitor has got the legal niceties of the definitions, if they can't spell "braking" correctly  (I followed the link Mojo, it's not you, its in the source )



I noticed the spelling mistake too and gave a sigh. Didn't edit because _breaking_ sort of works amusingly. Also it will annoy spelling pedants mightily  
I did find essentially the same info elsewhere fwiw.



Artaxerxes said:


> Not sure why so many drivers around here are so fond of overtaking just as the vehicle in front gets to the crest of a hill.  If you can't see the road ahead, don't overtake?



I suspect that overtaking on a blind bend or a hill, or ignoring the double-white lines, might be the kind of detail that pushes _careless_ into _dangerous_.


----------



## nick (Jan 31, 2021)

fair do's 
Breaking / braking has a kind of poetry to it but still..

Can't spell a word that is core to your supposed area of expertise = worse than Hitler.  (probably a cyclist or an Audi driver. Or both)


----------



## platinumsage (Jan 31, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> It’d be interesting to find out how many people get done at what speeds. I reckon you’d be surprised. After all, the plod are perfectly within their rights to bust folk for 1mph plus. I actually think it’s _highly_ _likely_ and completely unsurprising that forces will occasionally reduce the leeway to scoop up a load of folk who are building the 10+2 into their driving.



Doesn't happen. Despite numerous claims on motoring forums from people who have supposedly been done for e.g. a couple of mph over the limit etc, no one in the history of the internet has ever produced any documentation to prove it. In fact, they always go strangely silent when asked to do so, despite previously claiming that they had been outrageously and unjustly targeted.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Doesn't happen. Despite numerous claims on motoring forums from people have supposedly been done for e.g. a couple of mph over the limit etc, no one in the history of the internet has ever produced any documentation to prove it. In fact, they always go strangely silent when asked to do so, despite previously claiming that they had been outrageously and unjustly targeted.


Nonsense.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 31, 2021)

Dig out your NIP letter for 54 in a 50 and break the internet


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

Yeah, cos I kept it safe for 10 years for just this situation!

It definitely happens.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 31, 2021)

You should have! You could be crowned King of Pistonheads' Speed Plod & The Law section.

I did find this there:



That's about as close as we've got.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

mauvais said:


> You should have! You could be crowned King of Pistonheads' Speed Plod & The Law section.
> 
> I did find this there:
> 
> ...



So you _have_ seen a prosecution for less than 10+2 after all then. Glad that's cleared up!


----------



## mauvais (Jan 31, 2021)

Yeeeeeeeees.


----------



## bimble (Jan 31, 2021)

I’d never heard of this 10% plus 2 business. Is it a real thing or a sort of urban legend?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

bimble said:


> I’d never heard of this 10% plus 2 business. Is it a real thing or a sort of urban legend?


It's real but don't rely on it. People DO get done for less. It's only English police forces too I think. In Scotland there's no leeway.


----------



## bimble (Jan 31, 2021)

So in what way is it a real thing then?


----------



## BigTom (Jan 31, 2021)

nick said:


> fair do's
> Breaking / braking has a kind of poetry to it but still..
> 
> Can't spell a word that is core to your supposed area of expertise = worse than Hitler.  (probably a cyclist or an Audi driver. Or both)



Audi have made bicycles sooooo could be an Audi cyclist!




__





						Audi launch €15,300 performance Sport e-tron e-bike
					

German car manufacturing giant Audi invite you to join the #LeagueofPerformance, with the release of their high-end Sport e-tron performance e-mountain bike. If your reasonably well off in the finances department, or you really, really like Audis, the German company's new e-bike might be for...




					ebiketips.road.cc


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

bimble said:


> So in what way is it a real thing then?


Most English police forces won't prosecute you for speeding if you are less than 10%+2mph over the limit. So 35 in a 30 limit, 57 in a 50, etc. It's supposed to mitigate potential errors of between 2% and 3% in the speed measuring equipment and they don't want to be nicking everyone for 2 or 3mph over that because pretty much everyone would be getting whacked. The leeway is at the discretion of the police though. They can do you for 1mph over if they want to. People might challenge that in court on the basis of camera accuracy and motoring forums are full of people who say they have, could or would.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 31, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> The jury don't decide what the driver is tried for. In the case of careless driving it's not even heard by a jury, just magistrates.


No, the CPS do, and they have to think about what will get a conviction. The defendant can choose a jury trial for death by careless driving.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> No, the CPS do, and they have to think about what will get a conviction. The defendant can choose a jury trial for death by careless driving.


Correct. The point is that both careless and dangerous driving are defined legally.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 31, 2021)

bimble said:


> I’d never heard of this 10% plus 2 business. Is it a real thing or a sort of urban legend?



It’s what ACPO (now replaced with National Pig Chief’s Council) set as their standard. Frau Bahn and I both got done by the same camera at 36 in a 30, 30 + 3 + 2 is the tolerance that is applied. At my speed awareness course they stated that 30.1mph is illegal and could in theory see you nicked, but never is, even in death crashes. But perhaps 34 would see a death crash punished as a law breaking event rather than an accident.

I then got done for 80 in a 70 and felt hard done by as I did see the van and slowed down from 90 for it, unreasonable cunts didn’t appreciate my attempt to meet them half way.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 31, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> But perhaps 34 would see a death crash punished as a law breaking event rather than an accident.


Probably not, unless excess speed could be shown to be a factor, and it's unlikely to happen within speed awareness course thresholds. Even driving some way beyond the limit doesn't _necessarily_ produce consequences for the offender in terms of either prosecution or insurance settlement - e.g. where the injured party's negligence was the dominant factor.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 31, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Correct. The point is that both careless and dangerous driving are defined legally.


Of course they are, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to be tried for them. The issue is the cops going for the lower charge and the inadequate penalties for it.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> Of course they are, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to be tried for them. The issue is the cops going for the lower charge and the inadequate penalties for it.


Well they charge the offence that is most likely to result in a successful prosecution. All penalties are too lenient, not just motoring ones.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 31, 2021)

mauvais said:


> Probably not, unless excess speed could be shown to be a factor, and it's unlikely to happen within speed awareness course thresholds. Even driving some way beyond the limit doesn't _necessarily_ produce consequences for the offender in terms of either prosecution or insurance settlement - e.g. where the injured party's negligence was the dominant factor.



The example they gave was a woman, late 40’s smashed in to a bloke who ran across the road by Debenhams in Guildford late at night without looking and killing him at 44mph. She got six years prison. Was quite sobering as it is a road where 44 wouldn’t even feel that fast, the limit is 30 though. The suggestion that had she been going 54 he’d still be alive is not a good one to make at such an event.


----------



## bimble (Feb 1, 2021)

I have just this minute learnt that fog lights and high beams are two separate things. This solves the mystery of that button in the car. But that’s really bad isn’t it.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 1, 2021)

bimble said:


> I have just this minute learnt that fog lights and high beams are two separate things. This solves the mystery of that button in the car. But that’s really bad isn’t it.


You also have fog lights at the back. Don’t put them on unless you’re in poor visibility. They can sometimes obscure your brake lights and dazzle drivers behind you.


----------



## bimble (Feb 1, 2021)

It’s extremely foggy here right now, will make sure I figure it out if it doesn’t lift before I have to drive. Seems a bit confusing , the rules for when to use what, if like me you’re not any good at judging distances.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 1, 2021)

bimble said:


> It’s extremely foggy here right now, will make sure I figure it out if it doesn’t lift before I have to drive. Seems a bit confusing , the rules for when to use what, if like me you’re not any good at judging distances.


Put them on when you can’t clearly see cars about a football field in front of you.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 1, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Put them on when you can’t clearly see cars about a football field in front of you.



Then leave them on for the next three weeks once the fog clears, seems to be what most people believe...


----------



## bimble (Feb 1, 2021)

Another boring car question sorry, don't know where else to put it:
Small chip in windscreen, noticed it today but can't have been there long. 
Looks like a little spider, maybe 5cm across, must be from a stone.

So do i need to fix it in case it grows or is it just a minor annoyance.
And if i need to fix it how?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 1, 2021)

bimble said:


> Another boring car question sorry dont know where else to put it:
> Small chip in windscreen, noticed it today but cant have been there long. Looks like a little spider, maybe 4cm across, must be from a stone.
> So do i need to fix it in case it grows or is it just a minor annoyance.
> And if i need to fix it how?



Check you insurance and/or breakdown cover and you might be able to get it fixed gratis. And you should get it fixed. Sounds big enough to be an MOT fail, assuming it doesn't get worse.


----------



## planetgeli (Feb 1, 2021)

bimble said:


> Another boring car question sorry, don't know where else to put it:
> Small chip in windscreen, noticed it today but can't have been there long.
> Looks like a little spider, maybe 5cm across, must be from a stone.
> 
> ...



Common cause of MOT failure.

Not expensive to get fixed.


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## bimble (Feb 1, 2021)

bollocks, MOT was done about 2 weeks ago, spider definitely wasn't there then.


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## SpookyFrank (Feb 1, 2021)

bimble said:


> bollocks, MOT was done about 2 weeks ago, spider definitely wasn't there then.



Better two weeks after your MOT than two days before.


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## bimble (Feb 1, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Better two weeks after your MOT than two days before.


true. I will phone them in morning and try to read the enormous thing that is the insurance docs, maybe.


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## planetgeli (Feb 1, 2021)

Im not an expert bimble but 5cm sounds big and possibly needing a new windscreen.


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## Spymaster (Feb 1, 2021)

bimble said:


> Another boring car question sorry, don't know where else to put it:
> Small chip in windscreen, noticed it today but can't have been there long.
> Looks like a little spider, maybe 5cm across, must be from a stone.
> 
> ...


It depends where it is on the windscreen as to whether you can have it repaired I think.

They're not worth pissing about with though. Just claim for a new one on your insurance. The excess will probably be around £70.

ETA> Windscreen claims don't usually affect your NCB or load your next premium but you've not been driving long so it may be different. Just ring up your insurance helpline and ask. Don't leave it though. Cracks get bigger.


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## dervish (Feb 2, 2021)

5cm might be a little big but I had a chip, rang the insurance who sent someone out the next day, he fixed it in about half an hour and it cost me a flat £25. 

Co-op insurance a few years back.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Feb 2, 2021)

MOT fails also depends on where it is situated on the windscreen ( I have read the MOT tester instructions manual: shame on me)

To reply to the opening post: standard of driving is dreadful these days.
The amount of boy racers on the A12 and A13 is incredible, even in these pandemic days, on a Monday night no less, shameful.


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## Saul Goodman (Feb 3, 2021)

planetgeli said:


> Common cause of MOT failure.


Depends where on the screen it is.


planetgeli said:


> Not expensive to get fixed.


Depends on whether or not it needs a new screen.


----------



## bimble (Feb 3, 2021)

It's smaller than i said, 4cm or less across i think. When i showed it to Mike the garage man yesterday he said I will need to replace the windscreen because its not just a chip, said its an insurance job no effect on my no-claims but also said no rush as it is only little and not in my direct line of sight, suggested just keep an eye on it, deal with it when it gets bigger.


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## Spymaster (Feb 3, 2021)

If it’s large enough to require a replacement just get it replaced. Why wait? You’re going to have to get it done anyway and if it expands whilst your driving or away from home it could be a bigger pain in the arse to get sorted than having it fixed now at your convenience.


----------



## bimble (Feb 3, 2021)

yeah i agree,  maybe he just said that cos he's busy, i'll book it in.


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## BigTom (Feb 3, 2021)

bimble said:


> yeah i agree,  maybe he just said that cos he's busy, i'll book it in.



Call your insurance company first, they might have an agreement with autoglass or another specialist firm who will come out and do it, they might not want you to do it at your garage.


----------



## bimble (Feb 3, 2021)

As to driving standards, when I went to show the car to mike at the garage yesterday, I had to do a 17 point turn to extricate my tiny car from where I’d idiotically driven it right into the corner of his yard and I think he just politely pretended not to have noticed.


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## Spymaster (Feb 3, 2021)

BigTom said:


> Call your insurance company first, they might have an agreement with autoglass or another specialist firm who will come out and do it, they might not want you to do it at your garage.


This. Don’t book it in with Mike. Using your insurance company’s tie-up will likely be quicker and more convenient because they’ll send a mobile unit to do it at your home. They’ll also usually pay their authorised repairer directly (less your excess)  rather than you having to stump up 300-odd quid and claim it back.


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## mauvais (Feb 3, 2021)

Windscreen work is a specialist job anyway for a variety of reasons.

Also some insurers will only honour their discounted rates (e.g. £25 for a chip, £75 for a replacement) if you use their preferred supplier, which usually means you need to talk to them first.


----------



## bimble (Feb 3, 2021)

Ok thanks, will call the insurance.


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## Spymaster (Feb 3, 2021)

And check the repair. With the last one I had done, one corner of the screen was left sitting about half an inch proud of the frame. The contractor first told me it was supposed to be like that, then said the car was twisted. A phone call to his boss had a new one fitted properly the next day and some O2 cinema vouchers left in the car as compensation!


----------



## bimble (Feb 3, 2021)

Crikey that was easy, all booked online via insurers website, autoglass is coming to me next week.


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## Spymaster (Feb 3, 2021)

Who’s your insurer?


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## bimble (Feb 3, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Who’s your insurer?


Admiral. I think this is the first time I’ve ever actually used any kind of insurance. Oh yeah apart from that time the cat was sick.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 3, 2021)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> MOT fails also depends on where it is situated on the windscreen ( I have read the MOT tester instructions manual: shame on me)



40mm crack anywhere on the screen is an MOT fail. 10mm crack/chip in the swept area is also a fail.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 4, 2021)

I had an idiotic moment the other day and went through a red light, got caught on camera, and have been told to expect a court summons for it (they won't give me a FPN for it as the light had been red for ages). I'm quite worried that its going to be an issue at work as I do drive for work too.


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## Teaboy (Feb 4, 2021)

sim667 said:


> I had an idiotic moment the other day and went through a red light, got caught on camera, and have been told to expect a court summons for it (they won't give me a FPN for it as the light had been red for ages). I'm quite worried that its going to be an issue at work as I do drive for work too.



When you go to court be sure to let them know about your previously impeccable driving history and it was just a mistake, also tell them about your job.  In this climate if your job is in anyway related to healthcare or similar frontline work let them know that as well.  

Going to court just for running a red light seems a bit much given all the shit that is going on at the moment.


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## sim667 (Feb 4, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> When you go to court be sure to let them know about your previously impeccable driving history and it was just a mistake, also tell them about your job.  In this climate if your job is in anyway related to healthcare or similar frontline work let them know that as well.
> 
> Going to court just for running a red light seems a bit much given all the shit that is going on at the moment.



I've been told on the pepino forums that I probably won't actually end up attending court, I'll be invited to write a letter of mitigation. I do actually have a 20 year clean license, and it was just a mistake....... I'm just a bit wary about mentioning work too much as I'm a blue light driver (in healthcare), have an advanced driving license, and am worried that might encourage them to throw the book at me a bit more. I did also wonder about mentioning working through the entire pandemic, having lost 2 family members in that time (1 of them 3 days before I was caught), and my dad having 2 brain haemorrhages just months before...... but of course that may then lead them to question if I should have been driving due to the stress of it all, plus I was on my way to a (internal) job interview, and lost looking for an incorrectly plotted postcode on google maps.

I have very mixed emotions from just wanting to get it over and done with, to hoping I don't hear anything from the court in six months, ringing up and finding out no evidence has been submitted.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 4, 2021)

I'd definitely talk about what you do for a living and the general stress you've been under as a result.  Also your good history.  I'd be inclined to agree with you about the very personal stuff the work stuff should see you right.  I can't see any magistrate being a dick about that.  That's about as good as mitigation gets.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 4, 2021)

I might post my letter here for an opinion. I posted it on the pepipoo forums for an opinion, and was told it was too long, but also like every motoring forum they want to rip you a new on just because they can.

I don’t know if there is anywhere I can get affordable advice that isn’t a solicitor which I definitely can’t afford


----------



## BigTom (Feb 4, 2021)

sim667 said:


> I might post my letter here for an opinion. I posted it on the pepipoo forums for an opinion, and was told it was too long, but also like every motoring forum they want to rip you a new on just because they can.
> 
> I don’t know if there is anywhere I can get affordable advice that isn’t a solicitor which I definitely can’t afford



Trade Union? Doesn't seem like something they'd necessarily cover but it could be worth asking, you can't be the only ambulance driver who has found themselves in this kind of situation.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 4, 2021)

I don't know about red lights but I know an ambulance driver on 6 points for 2 speeding offences and they kept their blue light licence.


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## sim667 (Feb 4, 2021)

BigTom said:


> Trade Union? Doesn't seem like something they'd necessarily cover but it could be worth asking, you can't be the only ambulance driver who has found themselves in this kind of situation.


TBF my blue light driving instructor said he had 3 points. My trust policy only states you'll lose your job if you lose your license, and I hope I'm not at any risk of losing my license.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 4, 2021)

hash tag said:


> I don't know about red lights but I know an ambulance driver on 6 points for 2 speeding offences and they kept their blue light licence.


Its not a license as such is a level 3 qualification, which I can use to join IAM if I want to (but I don't see the point).

I've asked for advice on pepipoo and another legal advice forum and they've both said there's next to no chance my license would be taken.


----------



## BigTom (Feb 5, 2021)

sim667 said:


> TBF my blue light driving instructor said he had 3 points. My trust policy only states you'll lose your job if you lose your license, and I hope I'm not at any risk of losing my license.



Not for jumping a red light i wouldn't have thought. 3 points and a small fine would be my expectations but I'm not a lawyer or anything.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 6, 2021)

This is well impressive. Another footballer with more money than sense/decency.....








						CCTV footage shows Jack Grealish driving offences
					

The Aston Villa captain was given a nine month ban and fined following two motoring offences.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 6, 2021)

hash tag said:


> This is well impressive. Another footballer with more money than sense/decency.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



£80k fine, is it income related?


----------



## nick (Feb 9, 2021)

To be fair it can be quite hard to manoeuvre a Range Rover when pissed


----------



## hash tag (Feb 11, 2021)

It's Snow joke 
BBC News - Man caught driving with 'practically zero-visibility' in Dundee








						Man caught driving with 'practically zero-visibility' in Dundee
					

The driver was caught with both windscreens almost completely covered with snow as he drove in Dundee.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 12, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 40mm crack anywhere on the screen is an MOT fail. 10mm crack/chip in the swept area is also a fail.



My dad‘s car once failed an MOT for having a small crack in the swept area (I think it’s known as the ‘A’ zone?). The guy at the local garage came up with a very cheap fix for it, he fitted a shorter wiper blade so it was no longer in the area


----------



## hash tag (Feb 16, 2021)

Will he, won't he?


----------



## hash tag (Feb 19, 2021)

A great example of why cars should be banned from driving around Richmond Park Cyclist survives crash which left front of car destroyed


----------



## magneze (Feb 19, 2021)

20mph eh?


----------



## nick (Feb 19, 2021)

bike must have been going at one hell of a pace to cause that amount of damage


----------



## Winot (Feb 19, 2021)

nick said:


> bike must have been going at one hell of a pace to cause that amount of damage



“You should see the other guy”


----------



## T & P (Feb 20, 2021)

I bet it was going well under the limit when a reckless deer ran straight into it at full speed


----------



## T & P (Feb 24, 2021)

I'd never heard of Genesis before, but I wonder if they'll be reviewing lending their vehicles  to celebrities as courtesy cars...









						Here's what we know about Tiger Woods' car wreck and injuries
					

The world held its breath awaiting news of Tiger Woods' condition after the golf legend suffered serious injuries Tuesday in a rollover crash near Los Angeles.




					edition.cnn.com
				




I've just checked the car maker's website. Appalling fuel consumption of course, and not particularly pretty to look at. At least it's half the price of a Range Rover though.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Feb 24, 2021)

T & P said:


> I'd never heard of Genesis before, but I wonder if they'll be reviewing lending their vehicles  to celebrities as courtesy cars...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> The world held its breath awaiting news of Tiger Woods' condition after the golf legend suffered serious injuries Tuesday in a rollover crash near Los Angeles.


Yeah, I almost passed out from lack of oxygen.
Oh look, a squirrel.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 24, 2021)

T & P said:


> I'd never heard of Genesis before, but I wonder if they'll be reviewing lending their vehicles  to celebrities as courtesy cars...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



World famous sports star career ended in a single car accident is probably not the promotion Genesis were looking for when they lent him that car.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Feb 24, 2021)

Follow you , follow me tiger with your invisible touch . To the land of confusion as suppers ready. You will be saying I can’t dance with those injuries. Shame the car is broken and you won’t be able to turn it in again.  You twat


----------



## not-bono-ever (Feb 24, 2021)

I hate genesis


----------



## T & P (Feb 24, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> I hate genesis


Had never heard of them until yesterday, and I was surprised today to learn from Wiki it’s the luxury arm of Hyundai. I’d have bet the house it was going to be an American brand.

Clearly targeted at the US market, I gather? I mean, if you compare it with Toyota’s own luxury offshoot, Lexus, it’s a completely different beast. Lexus produces far more European-stylised models, not to mention more fuel consumption-conscious, within the (semi) luxury car segment anyway.

This thing looks ugly and tacky as fuck imo regardless of its performance figures. Other than a cheaper price tag I can’t imagine many people in Europe outside of Premiership footballers or low level drug dealers choosing any of their wares over competing models.


----------



## nick (Feb 24, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> I hate genesis


you know a lot of their song titles in that case. Methinks the lady doth protest too much ;-)


----------



## hash tag (Mar 3, 2021)

A classy piece of parking because if you have a really large ego that goes with the car, then one disabled bay cannot be enough. Full car park I notice.








						Fury as 'd*******' driver of £155k McLaren supercar parks over two disabled bays
					

The 570GT model was snapped in an underground car park in Melbourne, Australia without a disability permit visible, it is alleged - angering people online




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 9, 2021)

More than half of drivers break the speed limit in a 30, almost half on the motorway.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 9, 2021)

Ok drivers back me up on this. When you're on a dual carriageway, you should not overtake anyone when passing a junction. This is to leave the outside lane clear for anyone who needs to move over to let someone in at the junction. If someone is coming past on the outside of you and someone else trying to join the lane you're in, the only option is to brake fairly hard which is never an ideal thing to do on a fast road.

This is not a rule I was taught, it's one I figured out for myself via basic thinking. But is it just me? The van drivers and drivers of overpriced German cars of this land do not seem to share my thinking on the subject


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> More than half of drivers break the speed limit in a 30, almost half on the motorway.
> 
> View attachment 258035



That seems extraordinarily low for motorways. I'd have put it up in the 90s.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Ok drivers back me up on this. When you're on a dual carriageway, you should not overtake anyone when passing a junction. This is to leave the outside lane clear for anyone who needs to move over to let someone in at the junction. If someone is coming past on the outside of you and someone else trying to join the lane you're in, the only option is to brake fairly hard which is never an ideal thing to do on a fast road.
> 
> This is not a rule I was taught, it's one I figured out for myself via basic thinking. But is it just me? The van drivers and drivers of overpriced German cars of this land do not seem to share my thinking on the subject


I'd have moved to the middle lane well before the entry slip road. If everyone did that it wouldn't be an issue.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 9, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Ok drivers back me up on this. When you're on a dual carriageway, you should not overtake anyone when passing a junction. This is to leave the outside lane clear for anyone who needs to move over to let someone in at the junction. If someone is coming past on the outside of you and someone else trying to join the lane you're in, the only option is to brake fairly hard which is never an ideal thing to do on a fast road.
> 
> This is not a rule I was taught, it's one I figured out for myself via basic thinking. But is it just me? The van drivers and drivers of overpriced German cars of this land do not seem to share my thinking on the subject


It's good planning and courtesy to do what you describe - or to clear the way by accelerating past sufficiently in advance. With well-sighted sliproads etc you should usually be able to tell if this will happen or not rather than moving over for it anyway out of habit.

Legally, obviously there is no requirement and if this situation develops the fault would be on the part of the joining driver for neither yielding or merging at sufficient speed to fit in with traffic.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 9, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> That seems extraordinarily low for motorways. I'd have put it up in the 90s.


Average speed for cars on free flowing motorways is 68mph, or it was in 2018. Skewed a bit by the fact that speedometers over-read so people think they're going quicker.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 9, 2021)

hash tag said:


> A classy piece of parking because if you have a really large ego that goes with the car, then one disabled bay cannot be enough. Full car park I notice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Key time


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 9, 2021)

mauvais said:


> It's good planning and courtesy to do what you describe - or to clear the way by accelerating past sufficiently in advance. With well-sighted sliproads etc you should usually be able to tell if this will happen or not rather than moving over for it anyway out of habit.
> 
> Legally, obviously there is no requirement and if this situation develops the fault would be on the part of the joining driver for neither yielding or merging at sufficient speed to fit in with traffic.



Lots of sliproads with poor visibility on my commute. The one I have to use is basically a hairpin bend and you've got no chance of matching speed with the traffic before you join the dual carriageway. Luckily most people know that and leave room.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 9, 2021)

There was one up near Lancaster that might as well have had a fiery pit at the end - sharp bend and then a scant few inches of slip road before being dumped on to the M6 at about ten miles an hour. I think they might have changed it now.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 9, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> I'd have moved to the middle lane well before the entry slip road. If everyone did that it wouldn't be an issue.



I might move over in advance, particularly if passing a known dodgy junction, but not if someone else was in the inside lane.


----------



## T & P (Mar 9, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> More than half of drivers break the speed limit in a 30, almost half on the motorway.
> 
> View attachment 258035


  That headline statistic is in itself is no indication that more than half of all drivers are reckless or unsafe though. Not anymore than stating that most people under 30 have committed criminal offences related to drugs or theft. Which is probably true and sounds concerning on the surface, but not so much when you realise most of those criminal offences related to carrying a couple of pills in your pocket in your clubbing days or nicking a pint glass from a pub at closing time, rather than dealing in meth or stealing mobile phones and purses from people‘s pockets.

If more than half of all drivers were clocked doing 48 mph on urban 30 mph streets then that would be a different story.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 9, 2021)

mauvais said:


> Those stats show that compliance is pretty good, IMO.


We did this one a while back on this very thread FWIW.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 9, 2021)

T & P said:


> That headline statistic is in itself is no indication that more than half of all drivers are reckless or unsafe though. Not anymore than stating that most people under 30 have committed criminal offences related to drugs or theft. Which is probably true and sounds concerning on the surface, but not so much when you realise most of those criminal offences related to carrying a couple of pills in your pocket in your clubbing days or nicking a pint glass from a pub at closing time, rather than dealing in meth or stealing mobile phones and purses from people‘s pockets.
> 
> If more than half of all drivers were clocked doing 48 mph on urban 30 mph streets then that would be a different story.


Exceeding the speed limit is dangerous to others though, that’s why the 20 mph limit was brought in. The stats are just useful in showing motorists attitude towards the law, aided by the cops letting them off.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> Exceeding the speed limit is dangerous to others though ...


That's not always true though, and when you make clearly silly rules people will break them.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 10, 2021)

mauvais said:


> Average speed for cars on free flowing motorways is 68mph, or it was in 2018. Skewed a bit by the fact that speedometers over-read so people think they're going quicker.


That’s average speed though, not the number of people who exceed the speed limit. We’d need to know what question was asked in Sleater’s table but I don’t believe that pretty much everyone doesn’t regularly exceed 70 on motorways.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 10, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Ok drivers back me up on this. When you're on a dual carriageway, you should not overtake anyone when passing a junction. This is to leave the outside lane clear for anyone who needs to move over to let someone in at the junction. If someone is coming past on the outside of you and someone else trying to join the lane you're in, the only option is to brake fairly hard which is never an ideal thing to do on a fast road.
> 
> This is not a rule I was taught, it's one I figured out for myself via basic thinking. But is it just me? The van drivers and drivers of overpriced German cars of this land do not seem to share my thinking on the subject



A dual carriageway doesn’t necessarily have more than one lane. Whilst what you say is kind, it is up to the driver joining the road to do so when clear, so they should be prepared to stop and wait, they should not just barge on and expect others to get out of the way.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 10, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> A dual carriageway doesn’t necessarily have more than one lane. Whilst what you say is kind, it is up to the driver joining the road to do so when clear, so they should be prepared to stop and wait, they should not just barge on and expect others to get out of the way.


Short slip roads is no excuse for not being able to join at motorway speeds anyway. People should just buy faster cars.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 10, 2021)

There can't be many cars on the road, certainly not current production models that are not capable of motorway speeds. A faster car would not overcome this.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 10, 2021)

hash tag said:


> There can't be many cars on the road, certainly not current production models that are not capable of motorway speeds. A faster car would not overcome this.


Think about what you’ve posted here and realise why it’s silly.

Wakey wakey!


----------



## hash tag (Mar 10, 2021)

If most cars are capable of motorway speeds, it means they are capable of the maximum national speed limit. It is illegal and mostly unnecessary to exceed those limits. A car being capable of more than this would not help.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 10, 2021)

Faster != higher top speed.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 10, 2021)

hash tag said:


> If most cars are capable of motorway speeds, it means they are capable of the maximum national speed limit. It is illegal and mostly unnecessary to exceed those limits. A car being capable of more than this would not help.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 10, 2021)

mauvais said:


> Faster != higher top speed.


Not in this context it doesn’t. As most children would be capable of understanding!


----------



## nick (Mar 10, 2021)

Suspect Spy meant to say "capable of greater acceleration". But faster was a close proxy for that, although not 100% accurate when squinted at carefully


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 10, 2021)

nick said:


> Suspect Spy meant to say "capable of greater acceleration". But faster was a close proxy for that, although not 100% accurate when squinted at carefully


I wasn’t even prepared to explain that but I sometimes forget that U75 is heavily populated with individuals with the perceptual abilities of cat food.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 10, 2021)

It's also full of pedants and people who don't know they are wrong or won't admit it.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 10, 2021)

You're bang to rights spy.

A 747 is fast but would you fancy your chances using one to merge onto a fast flowing A road with a short slipway?  I think not.

Check mate.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 10, 2021)

Morons. All of you. You don’t deserve me.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 12, 2021)

It's one rule for them, or so they think. Justice Morris, a high court given 6 points and given formal advice for using phone while driving








						High court judge fined and given penalty points for using mobile phone whilst driving - Metal Meyhem Radio
					

A High Court judge has been fined and given six penalty points for using his mobile phone behind the wheel.




					metalmeyhemradio.com


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 15, 2021)

Some of the slip roads in Portugal are terrifying, only saving grace is the generally low volume of traffic on primary roads. I remember the mrs driving straight onto the dual carriageway from the top middle one without even noticing the give way, and she’s from round these parts.


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 15, 2021)

Oh, and here’s the nice line of sight at the same junction, obstructed by a low earth bund and signage.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 16, 2021)




----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 16, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


>





ffs, Lancaster motorist stamped on cyclist's head in roadside row


Prosecuting, Charles Brown said: " While they were stationary there the defendant, also coming in the same direction, pulled over and stopped in front of them.
"He then got out of the driver's seat and started shouting straight away, coming up to Mr Gardner and shouting in his face."
When the young woman asked him to leave them alone and asked what he was doing, he started to punch Mr Gardner to his face and body.
Miss Woodger tried to stop him and pull him away, accidentally tearing his T-shirt.


Mr Brown said: " Then the defendant transferred his attention to her. He punched her to the head then either punched or pushed her and she fell to the ground. Her head was close to the pavement.
"The defendant was standing over her and he stamped upon her head."


The difference between light injuries and brain damage/death in an attack like this is luck. How is this cunt free to walk the streets? 

"Hayton, who has previous convictions for violence..."  - naturally.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 16, 2021)

Badgers said:


>





Bahnhof Strasse said:


> ffs, Lancaster motorist stamped on cyclist's head in roadside row
> 
> 
> Prosecuting, Charles Brown said: " While they were stationary there the defendant, also coming in the same direction, pulled over and stopped in front of them.
> ...



These have nothing to do with this cunt being a motorist and everything to do with him being a dangerous psychopath who should have been drowned at birth.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 16, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> These have nothing to do with this cunt being a motorist and everything to do with him being a dangerous psychopath who should have been drowned at birth.




Quite.

10 years porridge for being mean to a slave trader's statue, community service for this cunt.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 16, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Quite.
> 
> 10 years porridge for being mean to a slave trader's statue, community service for this cunt.


Lol! Nobody is ever going to do anything like 10 years for fucking over a statue. 

I agree wiith your wider point though. This wanker _should_ be doing 10 years.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 16, 2021)

Nothing to get hung up on Update: Two injured following I-84 crash, putting truck on edge of bridge


----------



## T & P (Mar 16, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Nothing to get hung up on Update: Two injured following I-84 crash, putting truck on edge of bridge
> 
> View attachment 258978


Where is Superman when you need him?


----------



## hash tag (Mar 16, 2021)

A proverbial cliff hanger


----------



## nick (Mar 16, 2021)

"Hang on a minute, lads – *I've got* a great *idea*."


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 17, 2021)

What they were hanging off, just in case you thought it was a 2m drop onto a pillow factory below or something like that. Pants going straight in the bin I’d imagine.


----------



## T & P (Mar 29, 2021)

Although still a very small proportion of all cars out on the road, I am noticing an increasing number of vehicles at night with their back lights off in my daily London commute.

At first I thought they might have forgotten to turn their lights on, yet when I passed them (on a bike, pretty much given all the time) they all had the front lights on.

As I doubt in most cases it’s a case of double bulb failures, the only other reason that comes to mind is that with daytime running lights coming as standard on new cars for the last few years now, some drivers aren’t bothering anymore to turn on their headlights at night? But that’s still illegal daylight running lights or not, right?


----------



## mauvais (Mar 29, 2021)

T & P said:


> Although still a very small proportion of all cars out on the road, I am noticing an increasing number of vehicles at night with their back lights off in my daily London commute.
> 
> At first I thought they might have forgotten to turn their lights on, yet when I passed them (on a bike, pretty much given all the time) they all had the front lights on.
> 
> As I doubt in most cases it’s a case of double bulb failures, the only other reason that comes to mind is that with daytime running coming as standard on new cars for the last few years now, some drivers aren’t bothering to turn on their headlights at night? But that is not allowed, right?


DRLs on the front, plus an always-illuminated dashboard, in an urban area, means it's hard to tell that your lights are off - if you're a bit of a halfwit anyway. Ideally they should come on automatically but manufacturers have a wide variety of controls that mean sometimes this is the default, sometimes you have to do something, etc etc.


----------



## T & P (Mar 29, 2021)

mauvais said:


> DRLs on the front, plus an always-illuminated dashboard, in an urban area, means it's hard to tell that your lights are off - if you're a bit of a halfwit anyway. Ideally they should come on automatically but manufacturers have a wide variety of controls that mean sometimes this is the default, sometimes you have to do something, etc etc.


I can understand some drivers forgetting to switch them on, but what puzzles me is that whenever I’ve spotted one and meant to stop by the driver’s window to let them know they’d forgotten to do so, I saw lights on at the front of the car. I guess I need to pay more attention and see if they are headlights (in which case it surely must be a double bulb failure at the back), or the daylight lights on.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 29, 2021)

If it's a new car, they will be DRLs. If it's old more likely both bulbs have gone. But IME they last years, and modern units are LED too.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 30, 2021)

Freemium cars anyone?


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 30, 2021)

German cars have always been bad for everything being an optional extra.  I guess this is just the latest means of doing it.  I would hope that you can't do the transaction whilst still driving but fuck knows these days with cars.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 30, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> Freemium cars anyone?


This has been a thing for a while - hardware present but feature not activated - but surfacing this to the end user is new I think.

I think having variations in hardware, which introduce production line complexity, must have been determined to be more expensive than the cost savings from omitting the widgets for cars not specced with them. Or maybe the hardware overlaps, i.e. there is a single sensor suite and general purpose computer now that supports all these features and therefore there basically is no physical variation.


----------



## Border Reiver (Mar 30, 2021)

hash tag said:


> It's one rule for them, or so they think. Justice Morris, a high court given 6 points and given formal advice for using phone while driving
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is that "One rule for them..."? Six points is the correct punishment.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 30, 2021)

" he was given formal advice". Have you ever seen that phrase used for your average offender. I appreciate we know half the story but I can't help feeling there is more to the story than meets the eye. As a judge "enforcing" the law, he should know better, he should set an example and should he continue in his role?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 30, 2021)

hash tag said:


> " he was given formal advice". Have you ever seen that phrase used for your average offender.



No. Because your average offender isn't a judge.

"Formal advice" is a level of censure given to judges who are investigated by the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office, which is the body which overseas complaints against judges. So basically he was given a bollocking by them as well as copping the points and fine.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 30, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> How is that "One rule for them..."? Six points is the correct punishment.



Is it? For endangering lives?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 30, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> Freemium cars anyone?




How much extra do you have to pay for indicators?


----------



## Border Reiver (Mar 30, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Is it? For endangering lives?


For driving while using a phone. Same for you everyone. Not a class or power thing.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 30, 2021)

He was not exactly stupid. So did he do it out of arrogance or because he thought he was above the or, or, if caught, he could get away with it?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 30, 2021)

I have an friend who is a magistrate, when she started she told me that a speeding ticket was massively frowned on, it had to be declared and showed your disrespect for the law.
I told her that a speed awareness course didn’t need to be declared to anyone, she thought it did, but didn’t look in to it further as she was always very careful. Six months later she told me I was right and she done the course and didn’t need to declare...


----------



## hash tag (Mar 30, 2021)

Some insurance companies will ask if you have been on a speed awareness course.


----------



## T & P (Mar 30, 2021)

A question. Even though I like to think I am a very safe and competent driver, from the legal point of view there is one situation I have never been clear of the rules in the UK Highway Code.

On my commute home I go through the Tulse Hill one-way system. In its westerly direction it has the westbound lane of the South Circular and the Northbound lane for those travelling from West Norwood towards Herne Hill meet and run parallel to each other, as seen below



There are no give way signs on either road, and I have always treated such road layout the same as the kind of merge lane situations you get on the A303 when the dual carriageway ends: traffic on both lanes merge as if it was a zipper, left-right-left-right...


In other words, if no priority is indicated and you want to change lanes at the same time as cars on the other lane also wanting to switch, you give priority to any vehicles ahead of you and have priority over cars behind you.

The system makes perfect sense to me I and plenty of drivers employ it perfectly safely, but I also see some drivers who stop dead where the two lanes first join, and wait for traffic on the other lane to clear before changing lanes. So I was wondering if they’re following the correct Highway Code procedure or are just being extra cautious...

ETA: for clarity I should add that


----------



## Saul Goodman (Mar 31, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> Freemium cars anyone?



I really don't see the issue here. When you purchase a 'K' version of a Pentium chip, it can be overclocked (because it's unlocked), and you pay more for it. When you purchase a 100MHz oscilloscope, it can (and often does) have the exact same internals as a 200 or 300MHz oscilloscope, it's just the software that's different.
The manufacturers can offer the cheaper version because some people will willingly pay a premium for the more expensive, 'all-singing-all-dancing' version. This is how the world works, and has done for as long as I can remember. Ten grand more on a car doesn't mean you're getting ten grand more in parts, it means you're able to tell your neighbour you paid ten grand more for it. The sane amongst us just hack the software and get everything for free.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 31, 2021)

T & P said:


> A question. Even though I like to think I am a very safe and competent driver, from the legal point of view there is one situation I have never been clear of the rules in the UK Highway Code.
> 
> On my commute home I go through the Tulse Hill one-way system. In its westerly direction it has the westbound lane of the South Circular and the Northbound lane for those travelling from West Norwood towards Herne Hill meet and run parallel to each other, as seen below
> 
> ...



Merging properly requires a bit of planning, a bit of looking around to see who is where on the road and where your 'natural' slot is. If other people do the same thing there's no issue. Some drivers aren't good at thinking ahead though. That being said, better to stop and wait than to dive in front of someone else at the last second.

If there's a mergey bit coming up I will usually try and make sure I'm in the left hand lane well before I get there. But if everyone did that there'd be no point having two lanes at all.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 31, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Ten grand more on a car doesn't mean you're getting ten grand more in parts, it means you're able to tell your neighbour you paid ten grand more for it.



Saul gets something right for once. Although he probably wouldn't agree with me that if you spend enough money to feed several families for a year on a couple of extra bells and whistles for your car, you should by rights be put against a wall and shot.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 31, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Some insurance companies will ask if you have been on a speed awareness course.



Afaik only Admiral asks and you are not obliged to tell them.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 31, 2021)

T & P said:


> A question. Even though I like to think I am a very safe and competent driver, from the legal point of view there is one situation I have never been clear of the rules in the UK Highway Code.
> 
> On my commute home I go through the Tulse Hill one-way system. In its westerly direction it has the westbound lane of the South Circular and the Northbound lane for those travelling from West Norwood towards Herne Hill meet and run parallel to each other, as seen below
> 
> ...



In the Channel Islands they have signs to spell out what you should do here, Filter In Turn.


----------



## BigTom (Mar 31, 2021)

T & P said:


> A question. Even though I like to think I am a very safe and competent driver, from the legal point of view there is one situation I have never been clear of the rules in the UK Highway Code.
> 
> On my commute home I go through the Tulse Hill one-way system. In its westerly direction it has the westbound lane of the South Circular and the Northbound lane for those travelling from West Norwood towards Herne Hill meet and run parallel to each other, as seen below
> 
> ...



I think that the legal situation on this junction goes like this:

Each entry road goes into a specific lane.
There is no give way because it's not needed - you exit the junction directly into the lane you are going to use
Then if you need to change lane you follow the normal rules for doing so.

This means that if you are in the left lane and traffic in the right lane is flowing, you will have to give way to that traffic, not necessarily stop and wait where the roads join but it's hard to judge how long that stretch of road is from streetview.

When people swap lanes I think you are right about priority to vehicles ahead of you, priority over cars behind you and that's how it broadly works with a similar situation on the Birmingham ring roads - in this case though the ring road is much heavier in traffic so those entering the ring road will always stop if the swapping can't be done properly.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 31, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> We've got three actually, As well as my A6 and my son's Golf, Mrs Q has a Nissan Micra as well. I daresay that condemns us completely in your eyes but car nepotism (love that term totally going to steal it) is great completely eliminates the need to use public transport and prevents us from mixing with the disease ridden proles.





T & P said:


> A question. Even though I like to think I am a very safe and competent driver, from the legal point of view there is one situation I have never been clear of the rules in the UK Highway Code.
> 
> On my commute home I go through the Tulse Hill one-way system. In its westerly direction it has the westbound lane of the South Circular and the Northbound lane for those travelling from West Norwood towards Herne Hill meet and run parallel to each other, as seen below
> 
> ...


The one way system is a huge road/junction with lots of visibility and should never be a problem. Come West along the A3 to Wandsworth
to the top of West Hill and you will find this. it is a lot tighter. As a driver, always expect the unexpected.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 31, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Afaik only Admiral asks and you are not obliged to tell them.


i am with Admiral and don't remember them asking. You could be on dodgy ground in the event of claim, but how they would find out...


----------



## dessiato (Mar 31, 2021)

Get one of these and a BMW or Audi and drive as you like.


----------



## nick (Mar 31, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> In the Channel Islands they have signs to spell out what you should do here, Filter In Turn.


And in Tulse Hill the rule is to gun the fuck of it as you round the bend - and make up as many places as possible without stranding yourself on one of the islands between the ped crossings. Always  hoping against hope that you don't rear end a rail replacement bus at the stop on the left. 
5 points for every car you overtake on the uphill drag, with a score multiplier if you do it whilst driving with blue running lights and a bored out exhaust.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 31, 2021)

I fucking hate that fucking junction

EDIT: added an extra fucking


----------



## nick (Mar 31, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> No. Because your average offender isn't a judge.
> 
> "Formal advice" is a level of censure given to judges who are investigated by the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office, which is the body which overseas complaints against judges. So basically he was given a bollocking by them as well as copping the points and fine.


Friend from college joined the polis oop north.
Got pissed enough one night to not realise it was a bad idea to drive in that state and got stopped.

Miraculously the paperwork got mislaid - but he was "given words" and it was suggested that his career aspirations were better directed outside of the force


----------



## nick (Mar 31, 2021)

Crispy said:


> I fucking hate that fucking junction
> 
> EDIT: added an extra fucking



I often do it on a bike 
The fear certainly helps with the Strava segments


----------



## marty21 (Apr 1, 2021)

Police 'pin' wrong-way driver's car against tree
					

Atif Ayub, 25, is jailed for 12 months after driving the wrong way on a dual carriageway.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				



Skills from the police driver here , drove the wrong un into a tree


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 1, 2021)

marty21 said:


> Police 'pin' wrong-way driver's car against tree
> 
> 
> Atif Ayub, 25, is jailed for 12 months after driving the wrong way on a dual carriageway.
> ...


The mistake the copper made here was to not continue to accelerate and squash the scrote on the tree too.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 1, 2021)

There's a bit in the chase when the wrong un is trying to squeeze through some heavy traffic, he gets through because the drivers were moving aside to let the police through


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 1, 2021)

One year, out in six months. At a number of points in the snippets we saw he could easily have killed people with his rampage, this kind of shit, like violence in general needs much heavier bird dolled out.


----------



## A380 (Apr 4, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> In the Channel Islands they have signs to spell out what you should do here, Filter In Turn.


Yeah but the channel islands have weird traffic regs, Like every junction is a roundabout, but they don't have little roundabouts painted on the road. It's why hire cars  there have to have big stickers like L plates on them to warn islanders.


----------



## A380 (Apr 4, 2021)

nick said:


> Friend from college joined the polis oop north.
> Got pissed enough one night to not realise it was a bad idea to drive in that state and got stopped.
> 
> Miraculously the paperwork got mislaid - but he was "given words" and it was suggested that his career aspirations were better directed outside of the force


Whatever else the rozzers do, the slightest wiff of drink driving these days and out on their ear. A bit different from yesteryear.


----------



## Elpenor (Apr 6, 2021)

I drove from Exeter to Ashford, Kent on Thursday night.

The proportion of bad driving increased as soon as I hit the M3. I also realised that on a dual carriageway the motorway middle lane hogs tend to keep themselves in the slower lane.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 6, 2021)

OI find the M3 one of the better motorways as well. What little experience I have, I am sure that driving has got worse since we were locked down.


----------



## T & P (Apr 6, 2021)

The M23 can be bad for middle lane hoggers, as can the M4. Different destinations, different type of drivers perhaps...


----------



## quiet guy (Apr 6, 2021)

It's the areas of Smart motorway on the M1 and M62 that bug me with the lane hoggers tootling along in lane3 with their headphones on  completely oblivious to the empty left hand lanes


----------



## T & P (Apr 6, 2021)

They both have their pros and cons, but I genuinely believe that with proper lane discipline, a US-style freeway system that allows for undertaking would work better in busy 3+ lane motorways in this country than the established system.

Middle lane hoggers will never go away, and IMO the ‘stay on the right lane at all times unless overtaking’ system is becomes deficient and even unfit for purpose above a certain traffic density level.


----------



## MickiQ (Apr 6, 2021)

marty21 said:


> There's a bit in the chase when the wrong un is trying to squeeze through some heavy traffic, he gets through because the drivers were moving aside to let the police through


Middle Q had a sleepover on Friday/Saturday at one of her mates when she was about fourteen, I went to collect her on Sunday morning and I could see a cop car tanking up behind me with its lights flashing so I pulled over to let them through. There was a black car between the cop car and me and I was expecting him to pull over as well. But he swerved round me and kept going and I realised Plod were chasing him. There was a roundabout at the end of the road and he almost turned over going round  and turning right. By the time I reached the roundabout, two more cop cars came racing up from the other direction and went zooming off.


Spymaster said:


> The mistake the copper made here was to not continue to accelerate and squash the scrote on the tree too.


I hoped they billed this scrote for the repairs to front of the cop car, you can see him in the video spinning the wheel and clearly wondering what the fuck is happening.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 6, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> The proportion of bad driving increased as soon as I hit the M3.


At least you've admitted it so you're half way there. Now you should think about getting some extra training over the summer.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 6, 2021)

T & P said:


> ETA: for clarity I should add that


Thank you for adding that


----------



## T & P (Apr 6, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Thank you for adding that


My memory is shit and I couldn’t remember which post this came to, so I thought I’d check but don’t seem to see it. Out of curiosity, which post were you quoting?

(As an unrelated issue, I might bring up this issue in the feedback forum, as it’s quite annoying that one cannot easily go to the quoted post when one is quoted)


----------



## existentialist (Apr 6, 2021)

T & P said:


> My memory is shit and I couldn’t remember which post this came to, so I thought I’d check but don’t seem to see it. Out of curiosity, which post were you quoting?
> 
> (As an unrelated issue, I might bring up this issue in the feedback forum, as it’s quite annoying that one cannot easily go to the quoted post when one is quoted)











						Driving Standards
					

" he was given formal advice". Have you ever seen that phrase used for your average offender.   No. Because your average offender isn't a judge.  "Formal advice" is a level of censure given to judges who are investigated by the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office, which is the body which...




					www.urban75.net


----------



## T & P (Apr 6, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Driving Standards
> 
> 
> " he was given formal advice". Have you ever seen that phrase used for your average offender.   No. Because your average offender isn't a judge.  "Formal advice" is a level of censure given to judges who are investigated by the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office, which is the body which...
> ...


LOL. Nice cliffhanger I left there... I can’t even remember for certain what I was going to say, and it might well have been the leftover text of a semi composed post I’d started ITT at some point in the past, so you haven’t missed on any mind blowing revelations from me.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 7, 2021)

Newcastle driver left student to die in road after crash
					

Emma Guilbert was on a crossing when Mohammed Youssaf crashed into her and drove off.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Oh ffs, this takes the piss.



> *A speeding driver who left a student dying in the street after crashing into her has been jailed.*
> Emma Guilbert had moved from Manchester to Newcastle to study six weeks before she was hit by Mohammed Youssaf.
> Youssaf was travelling at 40mph in a 30mph zone and struck the 18-year-old on a pedestrian crossing, sending her flying 120ft (36m) before he drove off.
> He was jailed for 30 months after being found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.



30 months = 2.5 years, out in time for Wimbledon next year


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 8, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Newcastle driver left student to die in road after crash
> 
> 
> Emma Guilbert was on a crossing when Mohammed Youssaf crashed into her and drove off.
> ...



How is that not manslaughter ffs?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 9, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Newcastle driver left student to die in road after crash
> 
> 
> Emma Guilbert was on a crossing when Mohammed Youssaf crashed into her and drove off.
> ...



Flung her 36m fucking hell.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 10, 2021)

You stupid boy Pike 
BBC News - Devon and Cornwall police officers sacked after speeding








						Devon and Cornwall police officers sacked after speeding
					

The policemen were on road safety duty when they drove at 89mph in a seized vehicle.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Apr 16, 2021)

Not sure where to drop this, first of its kind? Ipswich man charged with drink-driving after electric scooter incident


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 17, 2021)

The legal hire scooters that were brought in here recently (Bristol) are always being ridden by squawking drunks late at night, sometimes two on one scooter. Would be funny to see some of those getting collared.  

The company that operates them do sometimes impose kerfews (general or for specific areas), and are quite good at responding to public feedback. You do have to have a provisional or full license to register to use one, and the company imposes its own bans for bad behaviour.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 17, 2021)

hash tag said:


> You stupid boy Pike
> BBC News - Devon and Cornwall police officers sacked after speeding
> 
> 
> ...





> The officers had seized the vehicle, and while waiting for a recovery vehicle to arrive, drove it without the owner's permission reaching speeds up to 89 mph over 3.1 miles.
> 
> *PC Pike, who was a passenger, filmed PC Pearce speeding.*



Then posted it on WhatsApp!

Thick pair of cunts


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 17, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> The legal hire scooters that were brought in here recently (Bristol) are always being ridden by squawking drunks late at night, sometimes two on one scooter. Would be funny to see some of those getting collared.
> 
> The company that operates them do sometimes impose kerfews (general or for specific areas), and are quite good at responding to public feedback. You do have to have a provisional or full license to register to use one, and the company imposes its own bans for bad behaviour.


I read about this scheme a while ago. Are these things insured? They're motorised vehicles being used on public roads.


----------



## mauvais (Apr 17, 2021)

They need to be insured, generally the hiring company takes care of that.


----------



## kenny g (Apr 17, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> I read about this scheme a while ago. Are these things insured? They're motorised vehicles being used on public roads.








						Powered transporters
					






					www.gov.uk
				












						Advice on e-scooter usage
					

Read our advice on the safe and legal use of e-scooters, including information on enforcement measures.




					www.met.police.uk


----------



## BoatieBird (Apr 17, 2021)

They're all over Northampton and there's been a few driving bans issued as a result of drunk usage 








						Northampton man's 15-month driving ban for riding e-scooter drunk
					

Breath test revealed he was over the limit in Kettering Road




					www.northamptonchron.co.uk


----------



## T & P (Apr 17, 2021)

A two-pronged question:

1. Are there any legal consequences  between e-bikes and e-scooters involving  drunk users who happen to hold a car driving licence?

2. Regardless of what the current legislation might dictate, from a logical/ ethical point of view, does anyone who thinks it is right for people who are caught drunk on an e-scooter to lose their licence have any objection to someone on an e-bike being subjected to the same punishment?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 18, 2021)

E bikes are the same as regular pushbikes, so no consequences for driving licences as drunk in charge is the worst thing, a fine.
E scooters are motor vehicles so any offence on one is the same as with a car.

An e bike won’t move unless you peddle it, an e scooter goes when you press a button. It does sound harsh to lose your licence but it is clearly a motor vehicle whereas an e bike is more properly called an e assist bike, so a bike...


----------



## T & P (Apr 18, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> E bikes are the same as regular pushbikes, so no consequences for driving licences as drunk in charge is the worst thing, a fine.
> E scooters are motor vehicles so any offence on one is the same as with a car.
> 
> An e bike won’t move unless you peddle it, an e scooter goes when you press a button. It does sound harsh to lose your licence but it is clearly a motor vehicle whereas an e bike is more properly called an e assist bike, so a bike...


Fair enough. I would however still maintain that as it stands the law is clearly not fit for purpose from a safety standpoint, and should be updated.

Most ebike users routinely travel at 15+ mph. Hell, Deliveroo riders are clearly reaching well over 20 mph as I judge them with my speedometer. Scooters in the meantime are limited to 15 mph.

There’s no question of of a scooterist possibly  causing more damage in a collision, so as it often happens in this country compared with our Continental neighbours, we’re hopelessly slow to update our motoring legislation to reflect changes in society and technology.


----------



## mauvais (Apr 18, 2021)

It will be updated though - this is not really in any doubt.


----------



## T & P (Apr 18, 2021)

Before anyone thinks I’m on a crusade against cyclists, I’m actually looking at it from the other angle: the more people taking up scooters, the better for our cities and the environment, so it should be encouraged and not riddled with OTT legal requirements.

In Berlin they’re everywhere, including hire ones found on every street, like rental bikes. Not for me but I think it’s great they’re so easily accessible.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 18, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> E bikes are the same as regular pushbikes, so no consequences for driving licences as drunk in charge is the worst thing, a fine.
> E scooters are motor vehicles so any offence on one is the same as with a car.
> 
> An e bike won’t move unless you peddle it, an e scooter goes when you press a button. It does sound harsh to lose your licence but it is clearly a motor vehicle whereas an e bike is more properly called an e assist bike, so a bike...


Saw an amusing 'road-rage' interaction between a cyclist & e-scooterist today; the latter j-pulled across the latter. Much shouting ensued at ever increasing distance, but what made me giggle was the fact that the scooterist repeatedly referred to the cyclist as a jackass!


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 18, 2021)

Not in favour of e-scooters because they so often get used on the pavements at speed. Along with the general poor condition of roads and pavements and those tiny wheels I can't see how they are safe to drive.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 18, 2021)

E assist bikes can only assist up to 15mph, the motor cuts out after that so if they are faster they are just a normal bike.

The issue with drunk e scootering is that when you’re pissed it is easy to get on one and push a button and smash in to whatever. With a bicycle, e assisted or not you have to cycle the thing so if smashed you tend to just fall off, which is why the limit to be drunk in charge is so much higher than for a motor vehicle.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 18, 2021)

T & P said:


> Before anyone thinks I’m on a crusade against cyclists, I’m actually looking at it from the other angle: the more people taking up scooters, the better for our cities and the environment, so it should be encouraged and not riddled with OTT legal requirements.
> 
> In Berlin they’re everywhere, including hire ones found on every street, like rental bikes. Not for me but I think it’s great they’re so easily accessible.



They’re a menace in Berlin, Reno...


----------



## Reno (Apr 18, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They’re a menace in Berlin, Reno...


They are indeed. For some reason lots of people who hire these scooters seem to think that traffic rules don't apply to them. That's not just jumping the odd red light when no traffic is around but doing whatever they want in any direction without looking, on pavements, roads and cycling paths. Nearly got run down a couple of times by scooters going up the cycling path the wrong direction, they are a menace on pavements and then they get parked in the stupidest places where they are in the way. We get lots of accidents with them here, alcohol has been cited as the main reason.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 18, 2021)

Visually impaired people find them quite distressing, silently whizzing along pavements the first they know is the whoosh of air as one passes inches from them, then they fall over the things parked all over the shop. There is a long way to go with these before they can be considered part of transport infrastructure.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 18, 2021)

Reno said:


> They are indeed. For some reason lots of people who hire these scooters seem to think that traffic rules don't apply to them. That's not just jumping the odd red light when no traffic is around but doing whatever they want in any direction without looking, on pavements, roads and cycling paths. Nearly got run down a couple of times by scooters going up the cycling path the wrong direction, they are a menace on pavements and then they get parked in the stupidest places where they are in the way. We get lots of accidents with them here, alcohol has been cited as the main reason.


So it's obviously cyclists that are upgrading to them. What could possibly go wrong!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 18, 2021)

Ogmios is quite cool about them, reckons the riders are from the future, finishes with “coming to a morgue near you soon”


----------



## T & P (Apr 29, 2021)

From the Torygraph...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 29, 2021)

P plates too. Would have been embarrassed as a mother-fucker to have P plates on my car when I passed!


----------



## T & P (Apr 29, 2021)

That pointy canoe end sticking nearly 1.5m out of the kerbside of the car could have made for a Final Destination-style accident involving a cyclist or pedestrian


----------



## Elpenor (Apr 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> P plates too. Would have been embarrassed as a mother-fucker to have P plates on my car when I passed!



Don’t they mean: “I somehow passed my test, but actually shouldn’t have been passed”?


----------



## marty21 (Apr 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> P plates too. Would have been embarrassed as a mother-fucker to have P plates on my car when I passed!


I never bothered with them , they are voluntary aren't they?


----------



## hash tag (Apr 29, 2021)

They are voluntary.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 29, 2021)

marty21 said:


> I never bothered with them , they are voluntary aren't they?



They didn’t exist when I passed, but first thing I did was tear off the Ls and get going, accidentally ending up on the M25 at 530pm that day...

In France it is law that you have to have A plates for a year, marking you down as a n00b...


----------



## marty21 (Apr 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They didn’t exist when I passed, but first thing I did was tear off the Ls and get going, accidentally ending up on the M25 at 530pm that day...
> 
> In France it is law that you have to have A plates for a year, marking you down as a n00b...


I think they have been around for a while ? I passed in 97 , thought they were around then?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 29, 2021)

marty21 said:


> I think they have been around for a while ? I passed in 97 , thought they were around then?



I was 17 in 1989, so that’s when I learned, in fact I attended an under 17’s driving school somewhere near Harrow for a couple of months when I was 16 so I could get on the road as soon as.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I was 17 in 1989, so that’s when I learned, in fact I attended an under 17’s driving school somewhere near Harrow for a couple of months when I was 16 so I could get on the road as soon as.


Uber boy racer


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 29, 2021)

marty21 said:


> Uber boy racer


I was driving karts at over 100mph when I was 7 years old. Some of us were born to drive fast


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They didn’t exist when I passed, but first thing I did was tear off the Ls and get going, accidentally ending up on the M25 at 530pm that day...
> 
> In France it is law that you have to have A plates for a year, marking you down as a n00b...


A for Accident


----------



## T & P (Apr 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They didn’t exist when I passed, but first thing I did was tear off the Ls and get going, accidentally ending up on the M25 at 530pm that day...
> 
> In France it is law that you have to have A plates for a year, marking you down as a n00b...


Yeah, the same in Spain. Limited by law to 80 kph maximum, and must display the L sign for a year.

Also, there is no such thing as provisional driving licences. When I first moved here I frankly couldn’t believe a country with as rigorous driving legislation (compared with Spain anyway) as the UK could possibly be okay with the very concept of young inexperienced and untrained people operating cars in public roads with no training so long as a fully licensed driver is sitting next to them. It’s utter madness, frankly. Ditto people learning to drive in cars that don’t have dual controls, or are not supervised by qualified instructors.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 29, 2021)

T & P said:


> Yeah, the same in Spain. Limited by law to 80 kph maximum, and must display the L sign for a year.
> 
> Also, there is no such thing as provisional driving licences. When I first moved here I frankly couldn’t believe a country with as rigorous driving legislation (compared with Spain anyway) as the UK could possibly be okay with the very concept of young inexperienced and untrained people operating cars in public roads with no training so long as a fully licensed driver is sitting next to them. It’s utter madness, frankly. Ditto people learning to drive in cars that don’t have dual controls, or are not supervised by qualified instructors.


It's even worse in Ireland. You can rock up at a driving test centre, take your test and fail miserably, then you're allowed to no only drive home, but continue driving until your next test date. It's fucking unbelievable!
I think the three strikes rule should apply to the driving test. If you don't pass the test in three attempts, you shouldn't ever be allowed to drive on the road. The driving test is beyond ridiculously easy, and anyone who doesn't pass it (IMHO) first time, isn't fit to be in charge of the lethal weapon they're being given control of.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> It's even worse in Ireland. You can rock up at a driving test centre, take your test and fail miserably, then you're allowed to no only drive home, but continue driving until your next test date.


You mean you can continue to drive whilst supervised by a full licence holder?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> You mean you can continue to drive whilst supervised by a full licence holder?


No, that's the law, but, as you probably know, laws in Ireland are open to interpretation. Provisional holders in Ireland seem to think their provisional is a full license that hasn't yet been issued. There's pretty much no enforcement of the laws, and people who only hold a provisional license almost never drive with a qualified driver as a passenger. Not that it would make much difference. But it's always been given the 'Irish treatment', which equates to "Ah sure it'll be grand", and the cops turn a blind eye, because the whole country is at it.
Edit: I'm talking about people actually driving to the test centre unaccompanied, then driving home the same, and continuing to drive that way.
Another edit... When you take your motorbike test, you have to take the test on a bike that's illegal for you to ride


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> When you take your motorbike test, you have to take the test on a bike that's illegal for you to ride


That’s the same here (but it’s not illegal to ride it for the test). I’m pretty sure that you have to take the test on a bike appropriate to the licence category. Things have changed a lot since I did mine but I think for an A licence you have to pass the test on a bike of 600cc or more.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Apr 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> That’s the same here (but it’s not illegal to ride it for the test). I’m pretty sure that you have to take the test on a bike appropriate to the licence category. Things have changed a lot since I did mine but I think for an A licence you have to pass the test on a bike of 600cc or more.


I'm not even sure how it works here, but I think it's very similar, a 600cc+ bike for the (A) test, which is (should be) beyond the reach of a provisional license holder. Yet if and when they fail the test, they're allowed to jump back on a bike they're not licensed to ride, and ride home. It beggars belief.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at the riders. My first road bike was a GSXR750, back in 1989. I didn't even have a bike license but I had a GSXR750, and I was cool as fuck, so I availed of the offer to ride a monster of a bike illegally, whilst also being legal, as I could insure it and produce the insurance to the cops, if they ever caught me.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 30, 2021)

T & P said:


> Yeah, the same in Spain. Limited by law to 80 kph maximum, and must display the L sign for a year.
> 
> Also, there is no such thing as provisional driving licences. When I first moved here I frankly couldn’t believe a country with as rigorous driving legislation (compared with Spain anyway) as the UK could possibly be okay with the very concept of young inexperienced and untrained people operating cars in public roads with no training so long as a fully licensed driver is sitting next to them. It’s utter madness, frankly. Ditto people learning to drive in cars that don’t have dual controls, or are not supervised by qualified instructors.



In Spain there are mock ups that you drive around, at least when I was a child I remember seeing them. That is the same as I did near Harrow when I was 16, not heard of such a thing anywhere else in the U.K. though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 30, 2021)

T & P said:


> Yeah, the same in Spain. Limited by law to 80 kph maximum, and must display the L sign for a year.
> 
> Also, there is no such thing as provisional driving licences. When I first moved here I frankly couldn’t believe a country with as rigorous driving legislation (compared with Spain anyway) as the UK could possibly be okay with the very concept of young inexperienced and untrained people operating cars in public roads with no training so long as a fully licensed driver is sitting next to them. It’s utter madness, frankly. Ditto people learning to drive in cars that don’t have dual controls, or are not supervised by qualified instructors.



What's madness is that I passed my test on the strength of half an hour in a Skoda hatchback on the back roads of rural Nottinghamshire and I could then legally drive a long wheelbase transit down the M1.

I've put in many many hours drving vans since then so I'm OK with it, but a particular menace on the roads is self-hire vans driven by bozos who have no idea how to drive a van.


----------



## dessiato (Apr 30, 2021)

One of the peculiarities of the car driving test is that once you pass it you can drive any car. There’s a massive difference between a Ford Ka and a Bugatti Veyron, but passing the same test permits you to drive either. There needs to be a similar system to that with bikes.


----------



## nick (Apr 30, 2021)

Historically UK didn't have tests and less long ago I think that you could drive without a licence in the services.

1) My father told a tale of being ordered to drive a jeep somewhere when he was in WW2. He had no licence but got it half way across, (what was then called) Malaya without realising that it actually had more than 2 gears
2) Many of my school friends lived in far fling countries and got their licences abroad. Consensus was that, in the 80s, Zim was the easiest place: Get in, drive forward 100m without hitting the 2 road cones on either side of the Road, Reverse 100m ,. Stop


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 30, 2021)

nick said:


> Many of my school friends lived in far fling countries and got their licences abroad. Consensus was that, in the 80s, Zim was the easiest place: Get in, drive forward 100m without hitting the 2 road cones on either side of the Road, Reverse 100m ,. Stop


Mexico outdoes that (or used to). It differs from state to state but in Mexico City there is no test. You just need to be over 18 and sign a declaration that you can drive.


----------



## souljacker (Apr 30, 2021)

nick said:


> 2) Many of my school friends lived in far fling countries and got their licences abroad. Consensus was that, in the 80s, Zim was the easiest place: Get in, drive forward 100m without hitting the 2 road cones on either side of the Road, Reverse 100m ,. Stop



The Indian (or at least Goan) version of the test in the '90s was the same but you didn't even need to do the reversing bit. I met a couple of mad scotsman in Goa who had done the test and intended to transfer it to a UK license when they got home. I've no idea if that was actually possible. 

Probably tells you a lot about the driving standards in India though. The roads were lethal.


----------



## dervish (May 4, 2021)

Not sure if it's still the case but a South Korean license was transferable to a UK one. A friend of mine has a perfectly valid UK after taking a few lessons and having a ten minute test (once round the test centre and park), he's not driven in this country yet, but it's scary how easy it is.


----------



## T & P (May 4, 2021)

dervish said:


> Not sure if it's still the case but a South Korean license was transferable to a UK one. A friend of mine has a perfectly valid UK after taking a few lessons and having a ten minute test (once round the test centre and park), he's not driven in this country yet, but it's scary how easy it is.


Is he South Korean, or did he at least use to live in South Korea when he got his licence? Judging by souljacker 's post above, it sounds like you don't even need to live in India or be an Indian national to get a licence there


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 4, 2021)

I have a St Kitts & Nevis driving permit, no test, didn't ask to see a UK licence, cost ECD30 and had to heed the advice, "There are no drink driving restrictions here, but when you start the second bottle of rum probably best to not drive, always wear a seat belt, the police are strict about that."


----------



## T & P (May 4, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I have a St Kitts & Nevis driving permit, no test, didn't ask to see a UK licence, cost ECD30 and had to heed the advice, "*There are no drink driving restrictions here,* but when you start the second bottle of rum probably best to not drive, always wear a seat belt, the police are strict about that."


Seriously? How long ago was that? I’ve heard of countries where there are drink driving laws in place but the rozzers never enforce them. But that is next level stuff


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 4, 2021)

T & P said:


> Seriously? How long ago was that? I’ve heard of countries where there are drink driving laws in place but the rozzers never enforce them. But that is next level stuff



Three years ago. Same on many Caribbean islands, especially the smaller ones.


----------



## Elpenor (May 4, 2021)

dervish said:


> Not sure if it's still the case but a South Korean license was transferable to a UK one. A friend of mine has a perfectly valid UK after taking a few lessons and having a ten minute test (once round the test centre and park), he's not driven in this country yet, but it's scary how easy it is.



It’s just a question of swapping it with the DVLA I believe, no lessons or tests required. Same with Japan, South Africa and various other countries


----------



## mauvais (May 4, 2021)

I never knew that.


> ‘Designated countries’ are: Andorra, Australia, Barbados, British Virgin Islands, Canada, Falkland Islands, Faroe Islands, Gibraltar, Hong Kong, Japan, Monaco, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Singapore, South Africa, Switzerland and Zimbabwe.


I wonder how they came up with that little list.


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 4, 2021)

mauvais said:


> I never knew that.
> I wonder how they came up with that little list.


Thatcher was quite pally with Mugabe. That would explain Zimbabwe. I'm sure similar connections can be made for the others.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 4, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Thatcher was quite pally with Mugabe. That would explain Zimbabwe. I'm sure similar connections can be made for the others.



Chile not on the list though.


----------



## mauvais (May 4, 2021)

Well, lots of them are Commonwealth countries or British possessions but there are lots more of those that are missing. Then there's also the countries that drive on the left like South Korea and Japan, but no India.


----------



## existentialist (May 4, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They didn’t exist when I passed, but first thing I did was tear off the Ls and get going, accidentally ending up on the M25 at 530pm that day...
> 
> In France it is law that you have to have A plates for a year, marking you down as a n00b...


I *deliberately* went onto the M25 at about that kind of time


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 4, 2021)

mauvais said:


> Well, lots of them are Commonwealth countries or British possessions but there are lots more of those that are missing. Then there's also the countries that drive on the left like South Korea and Japan, but no India.




Korea drives on the right as does Canada, Monaco, Switzerland and Andorra...


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 4, 2021)

mauvais said:


> Well, lots of them are Commonwealth countries or British possessions but there are lots more of those that are missing. Then there's also the countries that drive on the left like South Korea and Japan, but no India.


In fairness, even if you were fucking the president of India, it would be somewhat foolhardy to agree to a license exchange agreement with them. It would be like sending Prince Andrew on a babysitter exchange.


----------



## mauvais (May 4, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Korea drives on the right as does Canada, Monaco, Switzerland and Andorra...


Doh, I meant South Africa. And yeah, why Switzerland etc?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 4, 2021)

Tax havens? Andorra, Monaco...


----------



## Elpenor (May 4, 2021)

I never understood why Korea, however my now ex-wife did benefit from this although from her driving standard she shouldn’t have. Having driven in Korea, they basically don’t have roundabouts and virtually every junction is traffic light controlled. The concept of turning across oncoming traffic and independent decision making such as at roundabouts / right of way was alien.

I worked for a Japanese company for 5 years, and being a responsible employer we put our Japanese expats through a UK driving course on arrival but they still averaged an accident every year. While they drive on the left I believe that’s the only similarity.


----------



## hash tag (May 8, 2021)

On a different note, politician takes part in zoom meeting discussing safe driving, while driving! https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2021/05/06/andrew-brenner-video/
Spot the give away


----------



## dervish (May 10, 2021)

T & P said:


> Is he South Korean, or did he at least use to live in South Korea when he got his licence? Judging by souljacker 's post above, it sounds like you don't even need to live in India or be an Indian national to get a licence there



He was living there, TEFL teaching, but I think you could get one even if you were only there for a term.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 11, 2021)

Those poor motorists









						Do not frighten drivers and keep the noise down: Richmond Park's new code of conduct for cyclists; Drum and bass bicycle tour; Kick in the teeth bike rack; Jesus Christ, your dog bit me!; Giro breakaway day; Paris before and after + more on the live 
					

It's Tuesday and Dan Alexander will be taking you through the day on the live blog




					road.cc


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2021)

From a mate’s Facebook:




In the comments beneath someone has pointed at the existence of an ‘Audis in Houses’ blog, which is here:

Audis in houses 😁


----------



## nick (Jun 21, 2021)

Reminds me that George Michael died 5 years ago next Xmas


----------



## hash tag (Jul 9, 2021)

This is a cacophony of issues. If you note carefully, the fire engine is on blue lights, the van driver is texting or similar, for starters


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 9, 2021)

hash tag said:


> This is a cacophony of issues. If you note carefully, the fire engine is on blue lights, the van driver is texting or similar, for starters
> View attachment 277707



And the cyclist went through so fast that the camera missed him.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 9, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> And the cyclist went through so fast that the camera missed him.


It was a cyclist that set the charity shop on fire.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 9, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> It was a cyclist that set the charity shop on fire.



... on purpose


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 9, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> ... on purpose


Whilst playing Bowie tracks


----------



## existentialist (Jul 9, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Whilst playing Bowie tracks


Inferior ones, at that. When everyone knows that the best way to set a shop on fire is to sing yodelly Irish commercial folkesque...


----------



## Aladdin (Jul 10, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Inferior ones, at that. When everyone knows that the best way to set a shop on fire is to sing yodelly Irish commercial folkesque...


🤔


----------



## sleaterkinney (Aug 8, 2021)

Hardship = not being able to drive your Bentley for a mile to take your dog for a walk.

Link


----------



## hash tag (Aug 11, 2021)

Not sure the UK mentality on the roads will come near that of Sweden. Sadly overoptimistic. BBC Radio 4 - Positive Thinking, Can we make road deaths a thing of the past?


----------



## hash tag (Aug 20, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> Hardship = not being able to drive your Bentley for a mile to take your dog for a walk.
> 
> Link


This is hardship Blue singer Lee Ryan tells court he cannot afford £1,500 fine


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 20, 2021)

hash tag said:


> This is hardship Blue singer Lee Ryan tells court he cannot afford £1,500 fine


Another musician impacted by Covid I guess.

Saw him at Miami airport in 2013, he was on my flight back to London after having partied with Craig David.


----------



## nick (Aug 20, 2021)

Misread that as having "parted with Craig David".

Makes for a much more interesting anecdote IMHO


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 3, 2021)

Cambridgeshire judge astonished by killer driver's earlier ban
					

Prosecutors are asked to explain why Liam Mansfield was not charged with a more serious offence.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Pissed on 5 pints, cannabis in his system, only got licence back 3 months earlier after a 12 month ban for a police chase doing up to 80mph in a built-up area. Kills one woman and comes within a hair's breath of killing her wife too. Six years porridge and 5 year driving ban (with three year extension, so 8 years )


At the bottom of the article reporting on this shitbag's behaviour is a link on the right...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 4, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Cambridgeshire judge astonished by killer driver's earlier ban
> 
> 
> Prosecutors are asked to explain why Liam Mansfield was not charged with a more serious offence.
> ...



BBC not really got a leg to stand on here while they keep making shit like Top Gear that glorifies driving like a bellend.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 4, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> BBC not really got a leg to stand on here while they keep making shit like Top Gear that glorifies driving like a bellend.


In the same way Grand Theft Auto glorifies robbing and raping? 
Fortunately, most sane people know it's just light-hearted entertainment, or we'd all be dragging people out of cars and teabagging them.


----------



## T & P (Sep 7, 2021)

I hope he got a good laugh out of it… 









						CCTV shows 'idiotic' drive down Birmingham rail tracks
					

Aaron O'Halloran causes eight-hour passenger delays with his half-mile car ride between stations.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 19, 2021)

Driver jailed after fatally knocking down pedestrian while using mobile
Driver jailed after fatally knocking down pedestrian while using mobile



Mis-read the sentence as years, fucks sake. Two year ban an’all, that’ll learn him…


----------



## hash tag (Sep 19, 2021)

How to literally get away with murder


----------



## Badgers (Sep 19, 2021)

hash tag said:


> How to literally get away with murder


Yup...

If that is the 'deterrent' for fucking killing someone while using a phone at the wheel then it is no deterrent. 

Maybe 4 months prison and a year ban for causing life changing injuries and blindness?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 19, 2021)

hash tag said:


> How to literally get away with murder


No. That’s not murder.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 19, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> No. That’s not murder.


Is that why he wasn't charged with murder?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 19, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> No. That’s not murder.


It’s “careless driving”


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> It’s “careless driving”


It’s more than that but it certainly isn’t murder. Hyperbolic nonsense.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> It’s more than that but it certainly isn’t murder. Hyperbolic nonsense.


Hyperbole is a legitimate rhetorical technique and makes sense here not only because it links with the idiom 'to get away with murder' but also to highlight the pointless waste of life. I'm sure everyone here is clear that murder refers to pre-meditated killing.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> Hyperbole is a legitimate rhetorical technique and makes sense here not only because it links with the idiom 'to get away with murder' but also to highlight the pointless waste of life. I'm sure everyone here is clear that murder refers to pre-meditated killing.


Nope. The use of “literally” in HT’s post precludes that.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> It’s more than that but it certainly isn’t murder. Hyperbolic nonsense.


Manslaughter


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

Yes


----------



## Badgers (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Yes


We agree on something involving cars and drivers  





> Vehicular manslaughter is the crime of causing the death of another individual due to the illegal driving of a vehicle and the sentence for dangerous driving can take many forms. Causes of vehicular manslaughter include:
> 
> Gross negligence
> Drunk driving
> ...



Under UK 'law' it is typically 2-10 years afraid so he got a small sentence. Manslaughter is a minefield though  

The short driving ban oddly irks me more. Maybe he was just stupid/reckless/selfish but his driving killed someone.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> I'm sure everyone here is clear that murder refers to pre-meditated killing.



No it doesn't.


----------



## philosophical (Sep 20, 2021)

Isn’t the wise thing to do pretend you’re invisible, every other road user wants to kill you, nobody can be relied upon to obey the rules of the road and (here comes the existential but helpful bit) every accident you’re involved in is your fault.
(Yes I know it isn’t, but it is a good mindset to have especially if you’re a motorcyclist).


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Nope. The use of “literally” in HT’s post precludes that.



Well if you want to be utterly pedantic he said it's 'how to literally get away with murder', not that the case in question was literal murder. And he's right. Ask any copper (I'm sure you know loads).


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> No it doesn't.


Ok, premeditated _and_ unlawful.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> Well if you want to be utterly pedantic he said it's 'how to literally get away with murder', not that the case in question was literal murder. And he's right. Ask any copper (I'm sure you know loads).


 Nope. Wrong again.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> Ok, premeditated _and_ unlawful.


🤣 Google is your friend!


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Nope. Wrong again.


I know you are.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> I know you are.


Seriously? Dear oh dear. 

You should’ve added “but what am I”


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> but what am I


An idiot obsessed with the legal definition of murder apparently.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> An idiot obsessed with the legal definition of murder apparently.


How to literally get away with genocide.
Words have meanings for a reason. It helps to use the correct ones.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> An idiot obsessed with the legal definition of murder apparently.



 I just know know what it is. Without googling.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> How to literally get away with genocide.


A word thankfully mostly free from metaphorical or idiomatic use. Can you imagine people saying 'I could genocide a kebab right now'. It would leave a funny taste in the mouth.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> How to literally get away with genocide.
> Words have meanings for a reason. It helps to use the correct ones.



He doesn’t know his arse from his elbow when it comes to grammar. Literally.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> He doesn’t know his arse from his elbow when it comes to grammar. Literally.


The conversation had nothing to do with grammar. Literally.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> He doesn’t know his arse from his elbow when it comes to grammar. Literally.


I thought he was quite clued up on the English language, and quite pedantic about its use, which was why I was surprised to see him defend such lax use of it.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> I thought he was quite clued up on the English language, and quite pedantic about its use, which was why I was surprised to see him defend such lax use of it.


I'm actually right on both points but should know better than to play the lute to cattle.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> I'm actually right on both points but should know better than to play the lute to cattle.


Oh yeah, that's why we have the offence of murder my careless driving.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Oh yeah, that's why we have the offence of murder my careless driving.


I think your driving is more reckless than just careless. And I clearly didn't say that but don't worry, occasionally people say things that go over my head too.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> , occasionally people say things that go over my head too.


Evidently.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> The conversation had nothing to do with grammar. Literally.


QED


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> I think your driving is more reckless than just careless.



You don’t know the difference between the two.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> The way you’ve phrased that shows that you don’t know the difference between the two. The “just” bit gave you away. Whoops.


The difference between the two what? This is not a court and I am not a lawyer. Nor do I give a fuck about the legal difference. Recklessness implies a conscious lack of responsibility, which is what I'm accusing Saul of, whereas carelessness can be unconscious or lazy.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> The difference between the two what? This is not a court and I am not a lawyer. Nor do I give a fuck about the legal difference. Recklessness implies a conscious lack of responsibility, which is what I'm accusing Saul of, whereas carelessness can be unconscious or lazy.


QED


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> QED


The only thing any part of this conversation is proof of is that you're a bit thick and obsessed with legal definitions and that's not the post I'd chose as proof of that.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> The only thing any part of this conversation is proof of is that you're a bit thick and obsessed with legal definitions and that's not the post I'd chose as proof of that.


You should stop this now. You know what you’re like when you start flapping around.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> You should stop this now. You know what you’re like when you start flapping around.


I'll stop when I get home and not before.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> I'll stop when I get home and not before.


Ok. In that case, SpookyFrank might be being a lawyer this week. Maybe he can help you out.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Ok. In that case, SpookyFrank might be being a lawyer this week. Maybe he can help you out.


We don't need a lawyer what with this not being a legal question. Frank speaks English though which would make a nice change from chatting to you.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> We don't need a lawyer what with this not being a legal question. Frank speaks English though which would make a nice change from chatting to you.



At least 4 mistakes in 2 sentences. You're getting worse.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> I'll stop when I get home and not before.


Riding a bike and typing? You want to be careful you don't murder someone.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Riding a bike and typing? You want to be careful you don't murder someone.


Haven't ridden a bike in months. Probably not this year. 



Spymaster said:


> At least 4 mistakes in 2 sentences. You're getting worse.



You don't deserve commas.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> Ok, premeditated _and_ unlawful.



Nope. Care for a third try?


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Nope. Care for a third try?


Not really. I was right (though incomplete) the first time. Do tell.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Care for a third try?


He'll break Google.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> Not really. I was right (though incomplete) the first time. Do tell.




You said: murder refers to pre-meditated killing


It doesn't. Murder is where you intend to cause harm at a level of GBH or greater that results in death. As such you can be guilty of murder when you didn't set out to kill at all.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You said: murder refers to pre-meditated killing
> 
> 
> It doesn't. Murder is where you intend to cause harm at a level of GBH or greater that results in death. As such you can be guilty of murder when you didn't set out to kill at all.


Does your house resemble a court room or something? Does your wife have a very small typewriter? Do you have 12 bored looking children who sit on a pair of benches in the corner of the room? If you want the legal definition of murder in an English or Welsh court you'll have to say that's what you want. Otherwise people are going to give something similar to the dictionary definition. And they'll be right.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 20, 2021)

To take your eyes off the road while driving and concentrate on something on your had held device is or could be a premeditated act 😁


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 20, 2021)

hash tag said:


> To take your eyes off the road while driving and concentrate on something on your had held device is or could be a premeditated act 😁


Except there's no intent to harm, which is quite important for a murder conviction.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Except there's no intent to harm, which is quite important for a murder conviction.


I'm sorry but that's not good enough. Could you please state which jurisdiction you're discussing, and if possible the specific law you're invoking, whenever you use the word murder or it's just too imprecise.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> Does your house resemble a court room or something? Does your wife have a very small typewriter? Do you have 12 bored looking children who sit on a pair of benches in the corner of the room? If you want the legal definition of murder in an English or Welsh court you'll have to say that's what you want. Otherwise people are going to give something similar to the dictionary definition. And they'll be right.


Stop wriggling and calm down.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Stop wriggling and calm down.


Giggling more like.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

And say thank you to Bahnhoff.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> And say thank you to Bahnhoff.


Every day's a school day.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> Giggling more like.



Yeah, yeah. You old fraud!


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Every day's a school day.



Well certainly when he tries to pontificate on things that are beyond him. He does know about some stuff but quickly gets out of his depth and paints himself into corners.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Well certainly when he tries to pontificate on things that are beyond him. He does know about some stuff but quickly gets out of his depth and paints himself into corners.


It's a cyclist thing. They don't like stopping for anything, so they just keep pushing until their only option is back-pedaling.


----------



## maomao (Sep 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Well certainly when he tries to pontificate on things that are beyond him. He does know about some stuff but quickly gets out of his depth and paints himself into corners.


Cheeky cunt. You'd struggle in my new Y10 LA class.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2021)

maomao said:


> Cheeky cunt. You'd struggle in my new Y10 LA class.



Explains a lot. I thought you were a bit older than that.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 24, 2021)

Having disappeared down some YouTube rabbit hole, I found myself watching a video of dashcam snippets, where they'd been involved in RTCs.

I was quite shocked at how many of the clips showed situations which could easily have been anticipated, and also how readily people took to the horn WHILE TAKING NO EVASIVE ACTION whatsoever.  Fuck me, if someone pulls out in front of me, I'm going to be braking, steering, and doing everything to avoid a collision, not taking my hand off the wheel to pound the horn.

Mind you, there were quite a few very hard-to-anticipate (or at least do anything about it) collisions, particularly people just zooming out onto roundabouts at speed.

We need better driving tests.


----------



## blairsh (Sep 24, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Having disappeared down some YouTube rabbit hole, I found myself watching a video of dashcam snippets, where they'd been involved in RTCs.
> 
> I was quite shocked at how many of the clips showed situations which could easily have been anticipated, and also how readily people took to the horn WHILE TAKING NO EVASIVE ACTION whatsoever.  Fuck me, if someone pulls out in front of me, I'm going to be braking, steering, and doing everything to avoid a collision, not taking my hand off the wheel to pound the horn.
> 
> ...


My dad used to like saying, "if you've time to beep, you've time to do something about it"


----------



## existentialist (Sep 24, 2021)

blairsh said:


> My dad used to like saying, "if you've time to beep, you've time to do something about it"


Bang on. Literally, in many cases #hereallweek


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 24, 2021)

blairsh said:


> My dad used to like saying, "if you've time to beep, you've time to do something about it"




Yeah, but if you’ve hoovered a few lines of gak surely in your mind it is the other cunt’s duty to get out of the way?


----------



## blairsh (Sep 24, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah, but if you’ve hoovered a few lines of gak surely in your mind it is the other cunt’s duty to get out of the way?


Yeh, not sure my dad was ever bang on the beak tbf...


----------



## Sapphireblue (Sep 27, 2021)

i know when i've had a couple of near misses due to someone else driving like a cunt i didn't beep because yeah i was too busy avoiding the immiment smash and then the bastard drove off.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 27, 2021)

Sapphireblue said:


> i know when i've had a couple of near misses due to someone else driving like a cunt i didn't beep because yeah i was too busy avoiding the immiment smash and then the bastard drove off.


Didn't you mean to say you did not lower yourself to their standards but rose above it 😇


----------



## existentialist (Sep 27, 2021)

Sapphireblue said:


> i know when i've had a couple of near misses due to someone else driving like a cunt i didn't beep because yeah i was too busy avoiding the immiment smash and then the bastard drove off.


The bastard would probably have driven off even if you'd made contact. That seems to happen a fair bit, too. 

The way I see it, people who drive like that are likely to be doing it often enough that there's a pretty good chance they'll get caught eventually. Especially as more and more people get dashcams. And when the rest of them learn to drive the way you're driving, maybe there'll even be fewer prangs overall.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 28, 2021)

Sapphireblue said:


> i know when i've had a couple of near misses due to someone else driving like a cunt i didn't beep because yeah i was too busy avoiding the immiment smash and then the bastard drove off.



Yeah, I never beep the horn.  It always just sounds like a mouse squeaking anyway.


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 28, 2021)

Had a white van pull out in front of me today on the M5. I was doing about 70, they clearly hadn’t looked in their mirror, fortunately I just had enough time to swerve into the fast lane to stop myself hitting them, thankfully arrested the swerve on what was a greasy surface. Hopefully tomorrow’s drive is incident free.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 3, 2021)

Warning over new rule that could see drivers face unlimited fine
					

There have been some major changes to the Highway Code



					www.liverpoolecho.co.uk


----------



## Winot (Oct 19, 2021)

Found guilty of driving while disqualified. Taken so seriously they have been given… 

… a driving disqualification.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 19, 2021)

Winot said:


> Found guilty of driving while disqualified. Taken so seriously they have been given…
> 
> … a driving disqualification.




It's not inappropriate. Presumably this is a longer disqualification than the previous one and there's the additional tagging. If he does it again he'll go to prison. The main offence here should be driving without insurance and _that_ _should_ result in a custodial sentence.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 22, 2021)

Driver who killed Somerset cyclist given suspended sentence
					

Lorraine Barrow's widower says a suspended sentence does not feel like justice for his wife's death.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




50% over the speed limit in conditions where visibility is apparently zero, kill someone, convicted of dangerous driving. Bowls of porridge to be eaten, none.




			
				Victim's husband said:
			
		

> "The justice system is not just about justice for the victim, which will never be enough, but also about setting a deterrent for others.
> "This sentence does neither.
> "Victoria Hamer will serve her sentence and most likely go on to live a normal life which, in all probability, will extend beyond Lorraine's 57 years.
> "Why does society in general think that speeding is a low-level crime? It is not.
> ...


----------



## hash tag (Nov 7, 2021)

Oops. https://blogger.googleusercontent.c...uE9s6QdiyWJXjzehsv6z4eqvAISQl9SpXs783Tso=s400


----------



## hash tag (Nov 7, 2021)

.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 9, 2021)

Karolina Serafin: Drink-driver jailed over Wakefield police van crash
					

Karolina Serafin, who trapped an officer and two others between her car and a police van, is jailed.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Twice the drink drive limit

One victim lost her lower leg and can no longer care for her children due to the disability

A police officer she hit spent a month in hospital after having part of his leg smashed

Another man had to have part of his leg amputated as well as suffering injuries to his head and arm

3 years & 8 months with a 7 year driving ban

Woeful.


----------



## T & P (Nov 9, 2021)

Unless I’ve just been sent a well executed spoof story, this is weird as fuck.What the fuck is going on here?









						Man complains of police ‘bullying’ after mooning at speed camera
					

Darrell Meekcom, 55, says he has reported incident in which he was arrested by six officers at his Midlands home




					www.theguardian.com
				




I can think of several highly improbable/ unexplained things with that story. Was the man driving or being driven? Because sure as fuck wasn’t running. Was he in a convertible, or did he stick his arse out of the window?

Also, twats as the rozzers can be, is there a chance in hell they would bother to send a patrol car for such a misdemeanour even a month after the incident, let alone six within 20 minutes? Fucking bullshit.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 10, 2021)

T & P said:


> Unless I’ve just been sent a well executed spoof story, this is weird as fuck.What the fuck is going on here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



55 years old, claims "It is something I had always wanted to do because I'd been caught by them a couple of times for silly speeds like 35mph in a 30 zone" - (would be at least 36 before you get a NIP)



> he is seen lying on the ground in his garden as police arrest him, saying: “I’ve just been diagnosed with multiple system atrophy. I’m terminally ill. It was one off my bucket list. Haven’t you ever wanted to moon at a speed camera?” As one officer replies “No”




ffs, it claims he's a retired university lecturer. Were kids really paying nine grand a year to listen to anything that dicksplash has to say?


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 10, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> 55 years old, claims "It is something I had always wanted to do because I'd been caught by them a couple of times for silly speeds like 35mph in a 30 zone" - (would be at least 36 before you get a NIP)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How did he trigger the speed camera and how did they know who he was?

Does he have a number plate on his arse?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 10, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> How did he trigger the speed camera and how did they know who he was?
> 
> Does he have a number plate on his arse?



It was a van with people inside.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 10, 2021)

You are over thinking this. 
He mooned at a speed camera. 
Nowhere have I seen it said he was in a car or even triggered a camera. He may have simply just mooned at the camera. Alternatively, he may have stood there when a motorist drive past and triggered it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 10, 2021)

hash tag said:


> You are over thinking this.
> He mooned at a speed camera.
> Nowhere have I seen it said he was in a car or even triggered a camera. He may have simply just mooned at the camera. Alternatively, he may have stood there when a motorist drive past and triggered it.



It was a manned van, he dropped his pants and waved his arse at the people inside, fucking state of him would not be surprised if he flashed his knackers too and you can bet there were winnits clagged on the ring piece.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 10, 2021)

It was a manned van. There is nothing to indicate the bloke was even in a moving vehicle. He mooned at a van, with a speed camera in it that was parked at the roadside. I've walked in the direction  a speed camera and happened to see it flash at speeding cars.


----------



## T & P (Nov 10, 2021)

Even if the mystery of how the mooning took place and the camera triggered, there is just no way the police would be involved so quickly, much less so managing to arrive at his house twenty minutes after the deed, and heavy mobbed to the tune of six officers. Just no fucking way.

I’m no expert but I would wager speed camera activations are sent to whichever authority is responsible, checked by a human in the following 1-2 days, and a NIP letter  automatically & generated put in the post eventually. There are no fucking council/ DVLA employees glued to their monitors eagerly waiting for the latest images captured by a GATSO camera by the roadside.

I guess it would be plausible that a police officer monitoring live street CCTV saw a bloke mooning a speed camera, checked the registered address of the vehicle involved, and reported the infraction. But that’s still far fetched and the timeline highly unlikely. There are people reporting gunshots fired who have to wait longer than that for the rozzers to arrive ffs


----------



## hash tag (Nov 10, 2021)

He was NOT in his car...😬

"He said: "I got out the car and flashed my bum. I pulled my trousers up and got back in the car. I didn't think anything of it."


----------



## T & P (Nov 10, 2021)

hash tag said:


> He was NOT in his car...😬
> 
> "He said: "I got out the car and flashed my bum. I pulled my trousers up and got back in the car. I didn't think anything of it."


So he’s talking bullshit about the cops managing to identify his place of residence and turning up within 20 minutes, unless Mystic Meg was consulted.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 10, 2021)

T & P said:


> So he’s talking bullshit about the cops managing to identify his place of residence and turning up within 20 minutes, unless Mystic Meg was consulted.


He was with his car FFS 🤔 go back and read what is is supposed to have said


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 10, 2021)

Took me all of 30 seconds to confirm Birmingham City University doesn't have medical students, can I be a journalist please.


----------



## BigTom (Nov 11, 2021)

T & P said:


> So he’s talking bullshit about the cops managing to identify his place of residence and turning up within 20 minutes, unless Mystic Meg was consulted.



If it was a camera van then there would have been actual people there at the time. I'm skeptical but at the same time I can imagine coppers being pissed off enough at someone mooning them to act that quickly... never a group that likes having their authority challenged.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 11, 2021)

Plumdaff said:


> Took me all of 30 seconds to confirm Birmingham City University doesn't have medical students, can I be a journalist please.



No, as you're manifestly overqualified.


----------



## T & P (Nov 14, 2021)

A new dramatic development…









						Bart Simpson graffiti appears following Kidderminster speed camera 'moon'
					

The street art is on the wall of a subway in Darrell Meekcom's home town.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




You were right BigTom ; it was a camera van. That pretty much solves the issue. Don’t know why none of the earlier reports omitted that fact.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 16, 2021)

His 40 month ban is pending an appeal but I can't help feeling Kharma Ipswich Town's James Norwood offers reward over theft


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 19, 2021)

This is long overdue.  Drivers to be banned from using hand-held devices

Its mental how normal it is to see people driving with phone in hand.  I quite like the McDonalds drive-thru clause though.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 19, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> This is long overdue.  Drivers to be banned from using hand-held devices
> 
> Its mental how normal it is to see people driving with phone in hand.  I quite like the McDonalds drive-thru clause though.


As I understand it, if your phone is in a cradle on your dash or windscreen it can still be used 🤔😡


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 19, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> This is long overdue.  Drivers to be banned from using hand-held devices
> 
> Its mental how normal it is to see people driving with phone in hand.  I quite like the McDonalds drive-thru clause though.



All we need to do now is ban the fucking video screens they put in every single car.


----------



## T & P (Nov 19, 2021)

hash tag said:


> As I understand it, if your phone is in a cradle on your dash or windscreen it can still be used 🤔😡


That's because they have quite sensibly conceded that a lot of people use Google Maps on their phone as a satnav, and when used in that way it really isn't any different or worse than using a built-in satnav in the car. However you cannot use the phone for anything else other than navigation.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 19, 2021)

T & P said:


> That's because they have quite sensibly conceded that a lot of people use Google Maps on their phone as a satnav, and when used in that way it really isn't any different or worse than using a built-in satnav in the car. However you cannot use the phone for anything else other than navigation.




Not even Tetris?


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 19, 2021)

hash tag said:


> As I understand it, if your phone is in a cradle on your dash or windscreen it can still be used 🤔😡


Its the sat nav / hands free phone clause.  It would be very difiicult to implement a ban against that given how many nobs are on the dashboard to fiddle with anyway.  That's before we have the screens which are now commonplace...



SpookyFrank said:


> All we need to do now is ban the fucking video screens they put in every single car.



You're not going to like Electric Vehicles then.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 19, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> Its the sat nav / hands free phone clause.  It would be very difiicult to implement a ban against that given how many nobs are on the dashboard to fiddle with anyway.  That's before we have the screens which are now commonplace...
> 
> 
> 
> You're not going to like Electric Vehicles then.



Jesus fucking Christ what cunt made that


----------



## 8ball (Nov 19, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Jesus fucking Christ what cunt made that



I assume Honda.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 19, 2021)

I love the screens and that. but the wood (effect?), I know it's a Japanese car and that. but it's hardly screaming 'from the future', is it.


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 19, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I love the screens and that. but the wood (effect?), I know it's a Japanese car and that. but it's hardly screaming 'from the future', is it.



You can set the screens to aquarium mode. 



What a time to be alive.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 19, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> Its the sat nav / hands free phone clause.  It would be very difiicult to implement a ban against that given how many nobs are on the dashboard to fiddle with anyway.  That's before we have the screens which are now commonplace...
> 
> 
> 
> You're not going to like Electric Vehicles then.


Touch screens should and can be disabled while driving.
I have now driven 3 different EV's and I don't like them but not for these reasons.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 20, 2021)

I thought about posting this in car porn, but hey, Karma is a bitch Russian model’s jewel encrusted Lamborghini involved in Kensington crash


----------



## HAL9000 (Nov 21, 2021)




----------



## weltweit (Nov 21, 2021)

A pedestrian with a charmed life


----------



## T & P (Dec 15, 2021)

How in the name of fuck has she avoided going to the nick? 










						Katie Price drink-driving crash: Star given suspended jail term
					

The ex-model is told she "deserves to spend Christmas behind bars" as she gets a suspended sentence.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Dec 15, 2021)

Drink driving, driving while disqualified, driving with no insurance, what sort of message does this send out to people


----------



## 8ball (Dec 15, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Drink driving, driving while disqualified, driving with no insurance, what sort of message does this send out to people



Banned five times in the past too.


----------



## 8ball (Dec 15, 2021)

weltweit said:


> A pedestrian with a charmed life



You say that guy has a charmed life, but that car missed me by many thousands of miles.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 15, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Drink driving, driving while disqualified, driving with no insurance, what sort of message does this send out to people



She was ripped to the tits on charlie too.


----------



## 8ball (Dec 15, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> She was ripped to the tits on charlie too.



Which is weird cos I drive like a total boss when I'm on the chang.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 15, 2021)

8ball said:


> Which is weird cos I drive like a total boss when I'm on the chang.


Or think you do.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 15, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Drink driving, driving while disqualified, driving with no insurance, what sort of message does this send out to people





8ball said:


> Banned five times in the past too.



The normal rules obviously don't apply to KP, I bet she drives again in the two years of her ban. Hopefully she doesn't kill someone, hopefully she is caught and goes to prison. Perhaps that might get through to her.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 16, 2021)

Suspect the Judge might be taking into consideration the effect on her family, I recall she had a severely disabled son and if she’s involved with his care that might mean they steer away from a custodial.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 16, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> Suspect the Judge might be taking into consideration the effect on her family, I recall she had a severely disabled son and if she’s involved with his care that might mean they steer away from a custodial.



Never mind the effect on the families of someone she runs into and kills while shitfaced.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 16, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> Suspect the Judge might be taking into consideration the effect on her family, I recall she had a severely disabled son and if she’s involved with his care that might mean they steer away from a custodial.


And several other children 😟 what sort of responsible parent carrys on like that.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 16, 2021)

hash tag said:


> And several other children 😟 what sort of responsible parent carrys on like that.


None. She might be a parent, but there is - even outside her driving history - precious little evidence of responsibility being in play.

I guess we can never know exactly on what basis the judge chose to be so lenient, and all we can hope for is that next time - I suspect there will be a next time - she continues to fail to wreck any life but her own.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 18, 2021)

Heres a new get out of jail free card wernicke's syndrome.









						Barrister spared jail over drink drive crash thanks to memory lapses
					

The sentencing magistrate accepted part-time judge James Dawson has Wernicke’s syndrome, a neurological condition which means he does not know he has drunk alcohol




					www.standard.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 18, 2021)

A judge letting a judge off, well I never.


----------



## Elpenor (Dec 19, 2021)

Has to be some benefit from being on the square I suppose


----------



## hash tag (Dec 20, 2021)

How not to park your car Car crashes through Sainsbury's supermarket window

"It said an investigation was ongoing but initial CCTV inquiries showed a "poor standard of driving" in the car park. No-one was hurt in the crash."


----------



## Elpenor (Dec 20, 2021)

hash tag said:


> How not to park your car Car crashes through Sainsbury's supermarket window
> 
> "It said an investigation was ongoing but initial CCTV inquiries showed a "poor standard of driving" in the car park. No-one was hurt in the crash."
> View attachment 301893


You can’t park there mate!


----------



## hash tag (Dec 27, 2021)

You know it's bad when it's in the guardian Policeman ‘shocked’ by state of car driven with rear end hanging off


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 27, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Heres a new get out of jail free card wernicke's syndrome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe, if you know you have a condition which means you have no memory of drinking booze, you should hide you car keys before cracking open a case of single malt.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 27, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Maybe, if you know you have a condition which means you have no memory of drinking booze, you should hide you car keys before cracking open a case of single malt.


Perhaps your licence should be revoked.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2021)

A bit different Richmond Park cyclist crashes into car’s rear window after driver slows to let geese cross road


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2021)

My other car was a porsche


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 28, 2021)

hash tag said:


> A bit different Richmond Park cyclist crashes into car’s rear window after driver slows to let geese cross road
> View attachment 303493



That would have been proper comedy to watch


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Dec 28, 2021)

hash tag said:


> A bit different Richmond Park cyclist crashes into car’s rear window after driver slows to let geese cross road
> View attachment 303493



but did the geese honk?


----------



## Badgers (Dec 28, 2021)

Generally I spend very little time 'on the road' but have done a good 12-14 hours over the last 5 days.

Fucking hell there are some appalling drivers about  number of people texting and driving shocked me a bit. Drifting across three lanes at 60-70mph looking at their laps.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Generally I spend very little time 'on the road' but have done a good 12-14 hours over the last 5 days.
> 
> Fucking hell there are some appalling drivers about  number of people texting and driving shocked me a bit. Drifting across three lanes at 60-70mph looking at their laps.


It's was all Sunday drivers right through Christmas. I recall seeing someone overtake a bus while the bus was turning a corner. I also saw someone go through a red light at a t junction like it didn't exist. I forget all the other instances.


----------



## spitfire (Dec 28, 2021)

hash tag said:


> It's was all Sunday drivers right through Christmas. I recall seeing someone overtake a bus while the bus was turning a corner. I also saw someone go through a red light at a t junction like it didn't exist. I forget all the other instances.



Yes. I’ve been out a few times and it has been pretty shocking the general standards on display. 

Had 2 near misses today, absolute fucking dickheads. Red lights seem to have become optional.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 28, 2021)

hash tag said:


> It's was all Sunday drivers right through Christmas. I recall seeing someone overtake a bus while the bus was turning a corner. I also saw someone go through a red light at a t junction like it didn't exist. I forget all the other instances.


Lot of drivers recklessly joining motorways. Quite a lot of speeding drivers weaving through traffic in the rain. 

Nothing new I guess but the sheer number of feckless cunts is really surprising.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2021)

spitfire said:


> Yes. I’ve been out a few times and it has been pretty shocking the general only standards on display.
> 
> Had 2 near misses today, absolute fucking dickheads. Red lights seem to have become optional.


I was only driving because of work. It was all local town roads. On reflection, I'm relieved no one scraped me.


----------



## spitfire (Dec 28, 2021)

I was Bethnal Green to Hendon and back. Taking the nipper to the RAF museum. So all City/urban A roads. 

I’ve noticed it getting worse over the last year or so I’m sure.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 28, 2021)

The A3 on Xmas eve, dark and lashing down, fuck tons of twats thought that 80 was a reasonable speed in those circumstances. I got off at Guildford and went the long way home.


----------



## dervish (Dec 29, 2021)

The other week I noticed a guy driving along without his seatbelt, never really paid attention before, but now I have I'm genuinely shocked at how many people regularly drive without one. I thought this was one of those things that everyone just did now but as I've started to pay attention I would estimate up to about 30% don't bother. Obviously this includes white van man and scaffolding lorries which as everyone knows are exempt. Even when I don't count any that are ambiguous it's still a scary number. 

I get it that in the front at least they are only likely to kill themselves and not squash the person in front of them, but still, every single time I pay attention to people driving past I'll see someone without a seatbelt within a couple of minutes. I shouted at someone on a junction the other day as he had his two kids jumping around in the back, without looking at me, he reached back and walloped the nearest kid, then drove off. 
I wonder if it's that people think they have survived covid and now are invulnerable.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 29, 2021)

dervish said:


> The other week I noticed a guy driving along without his seatbelt, never really paid attention before, but now I have I'm genuinely shocked at how many people regularly drive without one. I thought this was one of those things that everyone just did now but as I've started to pay attention I would estimate up to about 30% don't bother. Obviously this includes white van man and scaffolding lorries which as everyone knows are exempt. Even when I don't count any that are ambiguous it's still a scary number.
> 
> I get it that in the front at least they are only likely to kill themselves and not squash the person in front of them, but still, every single time I pay attention to people driving past I'll see someone without a seatbelt within a couple of minutes. I shouted at someone on a junction the other day as he had his two kids jumping around in the back, without looking at me, he reached back and walloped the nearest kid, then drove off.
> I wonder if it's that people think they have survived covid and now are invulnerable.


I don't imagine Covid has that much to do with it. There is a natural human tendency to discount risk, and the notion that "I've never needed a seatbelt in 30 years of driving, so why should I need one today?" is one that is deeply embedded in our psychology. The only way to overcome it is either not to think about it, and just wear the seatbelt habitually (which is what most of us will do), and/or to cognitively remind ourselves that we might only need a seatbelt once in a lifetime, but if we're not wearing one when we _need_ it, that could be the end of that lifetime.

Like you, I think the notion that if someone wants to bring their life to a premature end by doing something as simple as not wearing a seatbelt, then that's on them...but then even that dad in the car (assuming his children were strapped in) would be depriving his kids of their father if he's involved in an RTC and dies as a result of not wearing his seatbelt. The idea that parents are happy to let their children bounce around in the back of the car unrestrained, though, is unconscionable to me. I did watch one of those "Ready Steady Crash" programmes about police once, though, where the copper spotted unrestrained kids in the back, and properly threw the book at the driver when he pulled him over, so my viewpoint clearly isn't unique


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 29, 2021)

The seatbelt thing is odd, mate of mine in the 90's got in to mid-level criminality, shifting lorry-loads of hijacked mobile phones. He was known to Old Bill and often had large wads of cash or boxes of phones on him that would be awkward to explain, yet purposefully didn't wear a seatbelt as if that made him some kind of rebel. Over a few beers I carefully explained that no belt is very visible and a good excuse for a tug and won't he feel like a twat going down for 5 years when it could have been avoided by clunk-clicking? Also make sure your car is bland and legal. He fully took that on board and never got nicked and has used the wedge he made during those times to start several legit businesses that are still doing nicely today.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The seatbelt thing is odd, mate of mine in the 90's got in to mid-level criminality, shifting lorry-loads of hijacked mobile phones. He was known to Old Bill and often had large wads of cash or boxes of phones on him that would be awkward to explain, yet purposefully didn't wear a seatbelt as if that made him some kind of rebel. Over a few beers I carefully explained that no belt is very visible and a good excuse for a tug and won't he feel like a twat going down for 5 years when it could have been avoided by clunk-clicking? Also make sure your car is bland and legal. He fully took that on board and never got nicked and has used the wedge he made during those times to start several legit businesses that are still doing nicely today.


Never understood drug dealers in flash motors with blacked out windows 🙄


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 29, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Never understood drug dealers in flash motors with blacked out windows 🙄



No, just daft. My mate used to dabble in cannabis too, after our chat he got a silver Toyota Camry.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 29, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Never understood drug dealers in flash motors with blacked out windows 🙄


We're shit at doing risk.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 29, 2021)

Lots of modern cars will insist on you having a seat belt even in the back.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 30, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Never understood drug dealers in flash motors with blacked out windows 🙄


baby seat and a little princess on board sticker the way to go..a baby seat with a stash pocket too


----------



## Elpenor (Jan 2, 2022)

ska invita said:


> baby seat and a little princess on board sticker the way to go..a baby seat with a stash pocket too


Met one once and he had his kids in the back - thankfully they were too young to understand what was going on - I think anyway


----------



## l'Otters (Jan 3, 2022)

hash tag said:


> As I understand it, if your phone is in a cradle on your dash or windscreen it can still be used 🤔😡


Needs to be used with a hands free kit as well as being in a cradle.

Mobile phone driving laws - what is and isn't illegal? | RAC Drive


----------



## sim667 (Jan 6, 2022)

dervish said:


> The other week I noticed a guy driving along without his seatbelt, never really paid attention before, but now I have I'm genuinely shocked at how many people regularly drive without one. I thought this was one of those things that everyone just did now but as I've started to pay attention I would estimate up to about 30% don't bother.



I work with a paramedic who resolutely refuses to wear a seatbelt, he plugs it in behind him and sits on it so the alarm doesn’t go off.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 6, 2022)

You are the driver. I think it's your licence should you, the driver get points for this. 
Mrs Tag still tells me the car won't move until I put my seat belt on. A paramedic you would have thought, would know better.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jan 6, 2022)

sim667 said:


> I work with a paramedic who resolutely refuses to wear a seatbelt, he plugs it in behind him and sits on it so the alarm doesn’t go off.



Bloody hell 

Honestly, if I was the driver I'd insist they put it on, if I was the passenger I'd refuse to get in the van ever again with that person. How do they get away with it? Does nobody raise it, anywhere? If not, that's actually really worrying!


----------



## killer b (Jan 6, 2022)

Paramedics don't have to wear seatbelts do they? when they're on the job at least. cf. taxi drivers, police, firefighters etc


----------



## sim667 (Jan 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> Paramedics don't have to wear seatbelts do they? when they're on the job at least. cf. taxi drivers, police, firefighters etc


Only if they’re conveying a patient in the back.

in C1 vehicles you don’t have to if you‘re low speed reversing either.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jan 6, 2022)

No, apparently not.

Every day, continues to be a school day


----------



## sim667 (Jan 6, 2022)

mojo pixy said:


> Bloody hell
> 
> Honestly, if I was the driver I'd insist they put it on, if I was the passenger I'd refuse to get in the van ever again with that person. How do they get away with it? Does nobody raise it, anywhere? If not, that's actually really worrying!


At the end of the day if they’re over 14, it’s their responsibility. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## hash tag (Jan 6, 2022)

Is the ambulance service a rescue service even? 
When you don't need to wear a seat belt​ 
You don’t need to wear a seat belt if you’re:

a driver who is reversing, or supervising a learner driver who is reversing
in a vehicle being used for police, fire and rescue services


----------



## mojo pixy (Jan 6, 2022)

sim667 said:


> At the end of the day if they’re over 14, it’s their responsibility. 🤷‍♂️



It's my hangup, I admit that. I get unbearably anxious if anyone in a car isn't strapped in, I put it down to being in an unfortunately high number of car fuckups years ago with my stupid mates, and seeing what happens when someone isn't wearing one.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 6, 2022)

I was out of the country when the law changed requiring passengers to belt up, so missed all the publicity. Took me a few years to get used to the idea and for it to become instinctive because of this.

(bear in mind that at this time I’d probably only travel in cars a handful of times a year)


----------



## platinumsage (Jan 6, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Is the ambulance service a rescue service even?
> When you don't need to wear a seat belt​
> You don’t need to wear a seat belt if you’re:
> 
> ...



No, the actual law is clear and just specifies police and fire.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Is the ambulance service a rescue service even?
> When you don't need to wear a seat belt​
> You don’t need to wear a seat belt if you’re:
> 
> ...


The ambulance service isn’t an emergency service officially.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 7, 2022)

Surely you mean rescue service as opposed to emergency service?


----------



## HAL9000 (Jan 16, 2022)




----------



## hash tag (Jan 16, 2022)

Clean underwear. Please.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 18, 2022)

I guess if you can afford to "pay" for justice....https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/17/frank-lampard-charge-against-ex-player-driving-phone-car-dropped?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other








						Charge against Frank Lampard of using phone while driving dropped
					

Former England footballer pleaded not guilty to charge brought after he was filmed by cycling campaigner




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## High Voltage (Jan 18, 2022)

As I have posted before, we have the best legal system that money can buy


----------



## hash tag (Jan 19, 2022)

A BMW driver is a self entitled arsehole. Really. Furious mum leaves note for 'self-entitled a**hole' BMW driver parked on path


----------



## T & P (Jan 20, 2022)

It doesn’t take much nowadays to get oneself into a national newspaper, does it…


----------



## hash tag (Jan 20, 2022)

As mentioned in other places; newspapers don't publish much news anymore.


----------



## platinumsage (Jan 22, 2022)

Arnold Schwarzenegger had a head-on collision when a Prius made U-turn in front of him. 

Thankfully he was driving a massive SUV so was uninjured:


----------



## hash tag (Jan 22, 2022)

I have 5 (five) speeding tickets . On a provisional licence  



			https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/164556/i-have-got-five-speeding-tickets---will-i-be-banned-from-driving-


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 27, 2022)

Cornwall learner driver arrested twice on same day in same car
					

A learner driver was stopped for driving twice while unsupervised in the same car, police reveal.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




*A learner driver was arrested twice on the same day, in the same car - for the same offence.*
_The driver, who had a provisional licence, was arrested in a Mercedes near St Austell in Cornwall for driving without supervision on Wednesday.
His car was seized and he returned later to get the car from the police pound, Devon and Cornwall Police said.
Officers said he was later arrested in the same car at Summercourt in Cornwall for driving while unsupervised.
The driver of a car that picked up the arrested man for the second offence was also arrested for driving while disqualified.
Both men are due to appear in court at a later date.
A force spokesman said: "It's not often we can say we have seized the same car twice in one day."
After the car was seized at Bugle, near St Austell, police said they "received some information that the same person was on his way to collect the vehicle with another insured person but they were driving to the recovery yard rather than getting a lift".
Officers said: "Suspecting that our provisional licence holder may end up driving unsupervised again, we kept an eye out.
"Shortly after, we saw the vehicle being driven on the A30 near Summercourt.
"We stopped it again and found the provisional licence holder unsupervised again.
"Vehicle seized for a second time and he will now be going to court for two offences."
Police said "to top it off, the person who was on their way to pick him up was stopped" in another Mercedes and was arrested for driving while disqualified._




Whilst an amusing story it does highlight how common illegal driving has become; no licence, on a ban, no insurance, no MOT and so on. ANPR is supposed to make these things harder, but with plod no longer policing roads it seems that the risks of getting caught are so small it's worth it for many people


----------



## Plumdaff (Jan 27, 2022)

Also the added costs of running a car legally, the culture around driving is one of entitlement to do so however you wish,  and the alternative public transport options are so shit in most places, that for a significant number of people it seems almost reasonable.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Cornwall learner driver arrested twice on same day in same car
> 
> 
> A learner driver was stopped for driving twice while unsupervised in the same car, police reveal.
> ...


Cornwall and most the South West are pretty ripe for drink driving too.


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 28, 2022)

Man driving for more than 70 years tells Notts police: ‘I’ve never had a licence’
					

After stopping driver in his 80s in a supermarket car park, officers discover he also never had insurance




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## hash tag (Jan 28, 2022)

Read that story recently. Back in those days, was a driving test required and/ or did you simply buy a driving licence. My ma had a little red fold up driving licence, I think. I'm not sure if she ever took a driving test it would have been nothing like I took which was nothing in comparison to today's tests. Hopefully, the beaks will go easy on that chap.


----------



## bluescreen (Jan 28, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Read that story recently. Back in those days, was a driving test required and/ or did you simply buy a driving licence. My ma had a little red fold up driving licence, I think. I'm not sure if she ever took a driving test it would have been nothing like I took which was nothing in comparison to today's tests. Hopefully, the beaks will go easy on that chap.


They became compulsory in June 1935 when the driving test was introduced, so the old chap should have had one. I hope they go easy on him too - but I wonder how many more people there are like him driving around unlicensed and uninsured.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 29, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> They became compulsory in June 1935 when the driving test was introduced, so the old chap should have had one. I hope they go easy on him too - but I wonder how many more people there are like him driving around unlicensed and uninsured.



They probably can't put the thoughtless old cunt in prison but they should confiscate/crush his motor and ban him for what's left of his life. In theory there shouldn't be too many of these fuckwits about because ANPR should be picking them up but there are the best part of a million uninsured drivers on UK roads and it's not busting them. I hope it's not true but a copper on the radio yesterday was saying that ANPR pings are so common in some places that some plod turn it off, otherwise they'd get no other work done. Unlicensed driving apparently is a bigger issue in Ireland where driving tests have only been mandatory since the 60s, so they have quite a few older folk who've been driving since before that.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 10, 2022)

another sent down








						High speed crash of racing drink-driver who had three-year-old son in the car
					

Seeing the footage 'makes you wince' said judge




					www.derbytelegraph.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Mar 4, 2022)

He never saw the river in front of him 😁


----------



## hash tag (Mar 5, 2022)

A 6 month ban and £660 fine with the ban being reduced because people recognised him and it's costing him money. Bless. My heart bleeds. 








						'EastEnders' actor Jamie Borthwick has driving ban reduced as he's 'recognised' on public transport
					

The actor's team said he had 'issues' with public transport.




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## pbsmooth (Mar 10, 2022)

New Ogmios has dropped...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 10, 2022)

hash tag said:


> A 6 month ban and £660 fine with the ban being reduced because people recognised him and it's costing him money. Bless. My heart bleeds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Never understood why this defence gets accepted, either you’re such a fucking big deal that you can afford a chauffeur or you’re not and if you choose to drive like a dick can get the bus. I wouldn’t know him from Adam and his show always seems to be on in our house…


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## hash tag (Mar 10, 2022)

He should have thought about it a bit more when he was on 6 points. But no, he took his tally to 12 points and still only got a 6 month ban, later reduced to 56 days. 😡
I know a blue light driver that was extremely careful having reached 6 points. 😟
It doesn't take a genius to work that one out.

Don't you know who I am. 😡


----------



## T & P (Mar 11, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> New Ogmios has dropped...



Frankly I always drive like that without even having to think about it, and would expect any any vaguely experienced and competent driver to do so too. Having said that, I act in a similarly considerate and streetwise manner when in a pedestrian or cyclist mode, regardless of priorities or law-given rights. 

In a similar vein if someone ever bothered to produce similar videos for pedestrians, if a car is on a busy main road indicating to turn right onto a side street, waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic that allows them to perform the manoeuvre, it is both sensible and considerate as a pedestrian to notice this if you’re approaching the junction, and let the vehicle wishing to turn right to do instead of start crossing the street, regardless of whether it is your Highway Code-given right to do so. 

That’s at junctions not regulated by pedestrian crossings, when you’re allowed to cross whenever you please. At traffic light-regulated junctions, where pedestrians are supposed to wait for the green man, any peds crossing the road illegally without even bothering to check for cars about to turn right are inconsiderate idiots at best. But sadly, always immune from any legal repercussions.


----------



## philosophical (Mar 11, 2022)

What if the pedestrian is obliged to wait in pissing rain?


----------



## hash tag (Mar 18, 2022)

Oh dear Driving ban for Welsh Health Minister Eluned Morgan for speeding


----------



## hash tag (Mar 19, 2022)

Looks like they tried to go to Specsavers Gorseinon: Girls arrested after crash into opticians


----------



## T & P (Apr 7, 2022)

The Devon & Cornwall police has released a video showing appalling behaviour by cyclists  with a driving licence behind the wheel:









						'Unbelievably dangerous' driving caught on camera
					

In February the public sent 279 submissions of poor driving evidence to the police.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## spitfire (Apr 13, 2022)

This should amuse and horrify in equal measure. Sound on, (commentary is loud and sweary).


----------



## hash tag (Apr 13, 2022)

spitfire said:


> This should amuse and horrify in equal measure. Sound on, (commentary is loud and sweary).



brainless. We learn from our mistakes, the mistake? Don't ever mess with trams that could have been nasty and many lives could have been put at risk with that stupidity.


----------



## spitfire (Apr 13, 2022)

hash tag said:


> brainless. We learn from our mistakes, the mistake? Don't ever mess with trams that could have been nasty and many lives could have been put at risk with that stupidity.



Indeed, that Croydon tram crash was horrific and there wasn't even a bus load of people involved on top of that.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 13, 2022)

Idiocy and worthy of note Man leaves car in M6 traffic to adjust mirror at extreme risk to self


----------



## maomao (Apr 15, 2022)

What's the most effective way to report driving offenses? Was just walking my little girl home from karate and some utter cunt was riding a motorbike through the foot tunnel. Had a learner plate on, hopefully get him in trouble before it becomes a habit.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 15, 2022)

To the police I guess, but you will need good evidence for them to bother.


----------



## maomao (Apr 15, 2022)

hash tag said:


> To the police I guess, but you will need good evidence for them to bother.


<ed: deleted for legal reasons>

Reg number not on the DVLA.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 15, 2022)

Even more reason to notify the plod


----------



## maomao (Apr 15, 2022)

Done now. He'll know who grassed if it comes to anything but he looked pretty wary of me anyway.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 21, 2022)

A1(M) Durham bridge plunge car thief jailed for 32 months
					

Hugh Holmes crashed a stolen car off a flyover and left his passenger critically injured.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




So we have...

Driving on a drink drive ban
Stealing a car
Driving that car like an utter cunt, several collisions with other cars
Crashing the car off a bridge and landing on a motorway
Female passenger in car tried to get out but he prevented her, she is left with a broken spine and is in a wheelchair, unable to walk at all
He refused to give breath specimen



32 months prison, so out in less than a year and a half, plus a 7 year driving ban



Wholly, fucking, inadequate.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 28, 2022)

Apparently he won’t cope well with prison, isn’t that the point?









						Taxi driver who killed 'loving' cyclist in 2020 crash walks from court
					

A ‘loving’ cyclist who was knocked off his bike by a taxi driver in the early hours died a fortnight after the crash.




					www.oxfordmail.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Apr 28, 2022)

The cyclist was not wearing reflective clothing and did not have flashing lights making him difficult to see, by a professional driver 😱😰


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 28, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Apparently he won’t cope well with prison, isn’t that the point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Prison is not supposed to be somewhere you can't cope, that isn't the point of it, the point is to take away your liberty, thus making that time wasted and your future life more difficult, that is the punishment element of prison.

This professional driver "simply didn't see" - rather he failed to look properly.

The defence has a little dip in to victim blaming, " he asked the judge to consider his client’s culpability in the context of the crash, pointing to the fact Mr Mallinson had not been wearing reflective clothing or using flashing lights. He suggested the cyclist was ‘very difficult to see’."

So it's careless driving, rather than dangerous and careless rarely carries an actual custodial sentence. Yet again to prove dangerous driving in this case would have been very hard, so the CPS and judge were tied.

Cycling UK is pushing for the starting point of dangerous driving to be any action that would be an immediate fail during a driving test. Killing a cyclist would be an immediate fail.


----------



## philosophical (Apr 28, 2022)

As an aside I note the word ‘deeply’ as in ‘deeply sorry’, a phrase much overused.
As in the politicians being ‘deeply’ sorry or concerned over somebody they have never met.
Seems like a weasel term….what’s wrong with saying you’re sorry without adding a term that says to me insincerity rather than sincerity?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 28, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Prison is not supposed to be somewhere you can't cope, that isn't the point of it, the point is to take away your liberty, thus making that time wasted and your future life more difficult, that is the punishment element of prison.
> 
> This professional driver "simply didn't see" - rather he failed to look properly.
> 
> ...



Perhaps cope well was the wrong choice of words, but the judge said he would seriously struggle with prison - is that a reason to keep him out?. 
What was the actual punishment in this case?. A two year driving ban?


----------



## existentialist (Apr 28, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Perhaps cope well was the wrong choice of words, but the judge said he would seriously struggle with prison - is that a reason to keep him out?.
> What was the actual punishment in this case?. A two year driving ban?


I get the impression that saying the defendant "...would struggle with prison" is a standard bit of mitigation used to try and press for a non-custodial sentence. It's a bit bollocks, really.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 28, 2022)

hash tag said:


> The cyclist was not wearing reflective clothing and did not have flashing lights making him difficult to see, by a professional driver 😱😰


He had a light on his bike though.


----------



## nick (Apr 28, 2022)

Pretty sure that until relatively recently flashing lights weren't even officially allowed on bikes.

Still - obviously the cyclist's fault - doubtless they didn't even pay "road tax" so had no right to be there


----------



## hash tag (Apr 28, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> He had a light on his bike though.


Not to mention reflectors front and back and on the wheels. At the end of the day, the cyclist should not have been there.
It's not just the cyclist that's lost a life, its a big loss to all his family and friends. He was clearly much loved.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 28, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Not to mention reflectors front and back and on the wheels. At the end of the day, the cyclist should not have been there.
> It's not just the cyclist that's lost a life, its a big loss to all his family and friends. He was clearly much loved.


What do you mean, should not have been there?.

The big problem with the careless driving charge is that the cps and defendant will go for it knowing it's just a slap on the wrist.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 28, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> What do you mean, should not have been there?.
> 
> The big problem with the careless driving charge is that the cps and defendant will go for it knowing it's just a slap on the wrist.


Oh dear, I was being facetious.


----------



## hash tag (May 1, 2022)

Sports car crashes along residential Ipswich road
					

A resident says a red sports car was badly damaged while another vehicle ended up on its side.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## spitfire (May 3, 2022)

Facking hell.

4 years, amazingly didn't kill or seriously injure anyone.


----------



## Spymaster (May 4, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Facking hell.
> 
> 4 years, amazingly didn't kill or seriously injure anyone.




I’ve been on a motorway when that’s happened. I saw a lot of cars in front of me sharply pulling left and right. I thought there must be a person or stopped car in the road so slowed right down in the inside lane and a blue Fiesta came pootling past in the middle. Turned out to be an old girl who got a bit confused. Fuck knows how she managed it though because it was a good way down from the junction which was roundabout fed with traffic lights.


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2022)




----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 23, 2022)

Katie Price will be up in front of the mags again tomorrow, this time for speeding whilst on her 6th driving ban.

What does it take for prison to kick in? And lifetime bans from driving?


----------



## hash tag (May 24, 2022)

Oh dear, I have lost my licence and lost my my job for doing 36 in a 30 limit says derby taxi driver, conveniently ignoring the fact he now has just 15 points. 









						Driver handed huge fine and disqualification from driving after missing letters in post
					

A TAXI driver from Derby has lost his driving licence and livelihood after he was caught driving 36mph in a 30mph limit and missed letters from court.




					www.express.co.uk


----------



## T & P (May 30, 2022)

Does anyone know what's going on here?


----------



## 8ball (May 30, 2022)

T & P said:


> Does anyone know what's going on here?




London.


----------



## marty21 (May 30, 2022)

8ball said:


> London.


fair comment, it's how we are taught to drive here tbf


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 30, 2022)

marty21 said:


> fair comment, it's how we are taught to drive here tbf




You need to take a more aggressive stance in London traffic if you want to make headway. My own examiner told me that.


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 31, 2022)

Shocker, this one. Sentence is a joke, disqualified for a year?









						Unlicensed driver lied and said he hit a deer when actually he killed a teenager
					

The hit-and-run killed Oscar Seaman, 17, who was cycling home.




					metro.co.uk


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 31, 2022)

Killing with no licence or insurance should be enough for hefty custodial, driving like that makes crashes almost inevitable. Fucking joke.


----------



## Spymaster (May 31, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Killing with no licence or insurance should be enough for hefty custodial



20 years


----------



## 8ball (May 31, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Killing with no licence or insurance should be enough for hefty custodial, driving like that makes crashes almost inevitable. Fucking joke.



Seems puzzling that it isn't.


----------



## BigTom (May 31, 2022)

8 weeks in prison (edit: nope, misread, suspended sentence), 1 year no driving, what a joke. Wasn't licenced anyway so why would anyone think that ban would matter.

Should be viewed as manslaughter with the same range of sentencing, and in this case should have been at the top of the range since they drove off and lied to the police. 20 years with life imo. No easy parole for someone who does something like this. Laws need changing and the CPS needs to charge people properly and follow it through in court, not go for the easy charge which sets a precedent.


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## marty21 (May 31, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You need to take a more aggressive stance in London traffic if you want to make headway. My own examiner told me that.


This is true , I notice it more when I drive outside London 😄


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 31, 2022)

BigTom said:


> 8 weeks in prison, 1 year no driving, what a joke. Wasn't licenced anyway so why would anyone think that ban would matter.
> 
> Should be viewed as manslaughter with the same range of sentencing, and in this case should have been at the top of the range since they drove off and lied to the police. 20 years with life imo. No easy parole for someone who does something like this. Laws need changing and the CPS needs to charge people properly and follow it through in court, not go for the easy charge which sets a precedent.


He didn’t go to prison.


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## BigTom (May 31, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> He didn’t go to prison.



oh I missed it got changed to a suspended sentence. fucking shocking, or it would be if we hadn't seen so many similar things before.


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## nick (May 31, 2022)

marty21 said:


> This is true , I notice it more when I drive outside London 😄


There are even nuances within town
My driving gently adapts from full on “no quarter given ” when I leave Sarf London to “no sir/madam  after you” when on suburban streets in Rayners Lane. 
It is a lot more genteel in NW london I find


----------



## hash tag (Jun 1, 2022)

nick said:


> There are even nuances within town
> My driving gently adapts from full on “no quarter given ” when I leave Sarf London to “no sir/madam  after you” when on suburban streets in Rayners Lane.
> It is a lot more genteel in NW london I find


I think it depends on how busy the roads are and what the weather is like. If the roads are really busy and traffic really slow, drivers tend to be a lot more assertive.
If it is a hot, sunny day drivers tend to be a lot more chilled.


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## sleaterkinney (Jun 1, 2022)

hash tag said:


> I think it depends on how busy the roads are and what the weather is like. If the roads are really busy and traffic really slow, drivers tend to be a lot more assertive.
> If it is a hot, sunny day drivers tend to be a lot more chilled.


Aggressive not assertive. I learned to drive in London and it's striking (especially abroad) when you see you don't have to drive like a dickhead.


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## hash tag (Jun 1, 2022)

Driving can be a bit mad in Paris and many Italian cities


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## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> I learned to drive in London and it's striking (especially abroad) when you see you don't have to drive like a dickhead.



Struggling to think of any country where the general driving standards are less dick-headed than London's. Certainly none of Europe except perhaps Scandinavia.


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## nick (Jun 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Struggling to think of any country where the general driving standards are less dick-headed than London's. Certainly none of Europe except perhaps Scandinavia.


Different rather than dick-headed (maybe) - but I have noticed that in Malaysia there is a great love of high speed tailgating. They must have the reaction times of a ninja. 
Whereas in Aus (QLD at least) breaking the speed limit seems to have the same level of social acceptability as drink driving


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Struggling to think of any country where the general driving standards are less dick-headed than London's. Certainly none of Europe except perhaps Scandinavia.



Perhaps because you are looking at it through the eyes of a London driver. I'm not talking about general levels of driving skill, just the level of aggression.


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## T & P (Jun 1, 2022)

Everyone on the move in London acts in an aggresive manner. Drivers, bus drivers, transport drivers, bikers, delivery bikes, cyclists, delivery cyclists, e-scooter riders, and pedestrians. Not literally everyone, but a lot of them from every form of transportation in existence.


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## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Perhaps because you are looking at it through the eyes of a London driver. I'm not talking about general levels of driving skill, just the level of aggression.



You need to try Italy and Greece!


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## sleaterkinney (Jun 1, 2022)

T & P said:


> Everyone on the move in London acts in an aggresive manner. Drivers, bus drivers, transport drivers, bikers, delivery bikes, cyclists, delivery cyclists, e-scooter riders, and pedestrians. Not literally everyone, but a lot of them from every form of transportation in existence.


Yeah, the roads are nothing compared to the tube.


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## T & P (Jun 1, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Yeah, the roads are nothing compared to the tube.


In retrospect, I should have specified 'road/ street transportation' 

Plenty of aggressive pushy cunts at rush hour on Tubes, trains and buses, mind...


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## sleaterkinney (Jun 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> You need to try Italy and Greece!


Italy does have that thing with traffic lights, never been to Greece - I need to go.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 1, 2022)

nick said:


> Different rather than dick-headed (maybe) - but I have noticed that in Malaysia there is a great love of high speed tailgating. They must have the reaction times of a ninja.
> Whereas in Aus (QLD at least) breaking the speed limit seems to have the same level of social acceptability as drink driving


I saw that stupid tailgating in Germany too, unsurprisingly some miles down the road the 3 cars involved had ran into each other creating a traffic jam.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jun 1, 2022)




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## hash tag (Jun 4, 2022)

It's difficult to understand how something like this can happen








						Woman killed in 'wrong-way' crash on A3 in Guildford
					

Police said they responded to "numerous reports" a Mercedes car was on the wrong side of the road.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## bluescreen (Jun 4, 2022)

hash tag said:


> It's difficult to understand how something like this can happen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know the road in question but I know a couple of roads local to me where the signage is poor anyway and a non-local might miss something overgrown by new foliage, especially when there's no other traffic at the moment of taking the wrong decision.


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## platinumsage (Jun 4, 2022)

"a silver Mercedes was being driven on the wrong side of the northbound carriageway" 

Which side of the northbound carriageway would that be?


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 4, 2022)

I'm guessing they entered the northbound carriageway just here headed south:




Note the missing No Entry sign at the time this image was taken. Since replaced, but who knows what state the signage is in now. Looking at the multiple streetviews over the years shows more than one disappearing No Entry sign.


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 4, 2022)

In any decent society the police would make collision reports public, so we could all learn from fatal traffic collisions and where necessary, hold people and organizations to account. But they don't do that "to protect the privacy of the victim's family". 

So we have to rely on a local journalist attending the inquest and reporting a few sentences on an ad-ridden website run by the Daily Mirror group. Because the coroner won't release any details "to protect the privacy of the victim's family".


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## hash tag (Jun 4, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You need to take a more aggressive stance in London traffic if you want to make headway. My own examiner told me that.


Have been on a bus in to town for literally 5 minutes and heard at least 3 drivers aggressively hooting at each other in addition to the bus driver.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 4, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Have been on a bus in to town for literally 5 minutes and heard at least 3 drivers aggressively hooting at each other in addition to the bus driver.




You ever been to New York? See what happens when then lights turn green…


----------



## hash tag (Jun 4, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You ever been to New York? See what happens when then lights turn green…


Not for a year or two. Italians drive on their horns.


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## Elpenor (Jun 4, 2022)

aggressive drivers flashing their lights behind you and driving right up your arse as you’re “only” overtaking a slower car at 70 mph, you pull over into the slow lane after the overtake, they then cut across both lanes of traffic to get off at the turn off 100m ahead.

Just get in lane a bit earlier ffs or get off at the next junction rather than drive dangerously in wet conditions. First knob head driving I can recall in Devon, probably a tourist


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 9, 2022)

How does this work then?...assuming she must be mentally unfit to stand trial?









						Range Rover drink driver left cyclist with brain damage before her wedding
					

“I know I shouldn’t have been driving. I had a drink, I have done wrong, I’m sorry"




					www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk


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## hash tag (Jun 9, 2022)

Harsh maybe, but if she is fit enough to drive, she is fit enough to be punished. She knew she was over the limit. She knew she shouldn't have driven.....


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## hash tag (Jun 15, 2022)

Bit like the parking fails because one lane is not enough. What this pic does not show is the van in front at the lights, also straddling 2 lanes. It's a police van!


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## T & P (Jun 15, 2022)

Ah, that's near the former Price Candles' factory, isn't it?


----------



## hash tag (Jun 15, 2022)

T & P said:


> Ah, that's near the former Price Candles' factory, isn't it? The building you are looking at is Candlemakers, previously Prices candle Factory


Quite right. The building we are seeing is now Candlemakers which was previously Prices Candle Factory. By coincidence, I worked with someone last week
whose grandfather spent his working life in there.


----------



## bimble (Jun 16, 2022)

Seems a reasonable place for this question:
Some scratches have accumulated upon my car since i got it, they're all in the same spot (front of car furthest point from my face when i'm driving). I'd quite like to get rid of them because they make it look as though i am not an excellent driver, which i totally am. So does "T-Cut scratch remover" work ?


----------



## hash tag (Jun 16, 2022)

It can do but depends on the scratches and how deep they are. If the scratches are through to bare metal, no.


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## hash tag (Jun 16, 2022)

A question is how much do you care and how much would you be willing to spend to keep the motor looking nice.
If you are not very careful when cleaning it, you will leave swirls in the paintwork. These are easily removed by
machine polishing by yourself or your could get someone else to do it, but care needs to be exercised. My Alfa,
I paid around £500 for a machine polish, ceramic coat (and underseal) and it has bought the paint up a treat.
I know this is not you neck of the woods, but quite good on info Car Valeting Kingston | Car Detailing Kingston | Car Valeting Surrey | Car Detailing Surrey | Autoshine


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 16, 2022)

If you dive in with T-Cut you risk making a big smear.

Light scratches can often be covered up by just dabbing on a polish that approximately matches the colour of your car.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 16, 2022)

Not sure how people feel about something like this








						Driver fined £1,100 for passing cyclist in Bridgend too closely
					

The motorist says the prosecution for failing to allow enough room has cost him about £4,500.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 16, 2022)

He was driving an Audi Q8 so should obviously have been fined more.


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## srb7677 (Jun 16, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Not sure how people feel about something like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Personally, although the highway code mandates giving cyclists a wide berth, in practical terms I think it can in practice depend upon the road.

Where the road is narrow and there is insufficient room to give the cyclist a wide berth, the car is expected to follow at bycycle speed possibly for many miles, when in actual fact if the cyclist showed a little common courtesy under such circumstances and pulled over to let the car pass it would be much more reasonable. That this rarely ever happens is part of the reason impatient drivers pass too closely sometimes.

I do think that where cycle lanes are provided, cyclists should be expected to use them and not arrogantly clog up the road anyway as a few do.

The highway code defers in favour of cyclists who are in fairness potentially much more vulnerable than people in cars. However, a little understanding and courtesy by all road users, including cyclists as well as drivers, would go a long way.


----------



## alex_ (Jun 16, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Not sure how people feel about something like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bearing in mind there was plenty of room for him to move out, and other drivers in narrower cars moved out further. It’s fair enough.

Suspect most drivers don’t know this is law, but ignorance of the law is no excuse.


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 16, 2022)

srb7677 said:


> Personally, although the highway code mandates giving cyclists a wide berth



It doesn't mandate anything of the sort, it merely advises. If it did mandate then the situation would be clearer and easier to understand, but then there would be less flexibility



alex_ said:


> Suspect most drivers don’t know this is law, but ignorance of the law is no excuse.



It's not the law, the law is "without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place" which is about as clear as mud. I'm sure there are lots of situations where a pass such as this would not have been prosecuted.


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## srb7677 (Jun 16, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> It doesn't mandate anything of the sort, it merely advises. If it did mandate then the situation would be clearer and easier to understand, but then there would be less flexibility


The highway code has been changed recently in favour of cyclists. After all, if giving cyclists a wide berth is not mandatory, why has a driver been fined for not doing so?

Rule 212: Give motorcyclists, cyclists, horse riders, horse drawn vehicles and pedestrians walking in the road (for example, where there is no pavement), at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car


----------



## High Voltage (Jun 16, 2022)

The Audi driver in question was given the option of a fixed penalty OR attend a driving course, resulting in him being summoned where the fine and points were applied - if he'd've just accepted that he was a bit of a twat it would have cost him pennies in comparison



> Mr Humphreys had refused to attend a course or pay a fixed penalty notice and said the fine was "appalling".


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 16, 2022)

srb7677 said:


> The highway code has been changed recently in favour of cyclists. After all, if giving cyclists a wide berth is not mandatory, why has a driver been fined for not doing so?



The law hasn't changed. He was fined because the way he drove fell below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver. You might think that such expectations align perfectly with the advice published in the Highway Code, but case law over the years clearly demonstrates that not to be the case.

Regard close passing the HC has long stated "give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car". What has been added is "As a guide ... leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds"

So.. advice has been updated with a specified distance as a guide. None of that is mandatory - as I said, there will be plenty of situations where a pass closer than the one this man was fined for would not have been prosecuted.


----------



## bimble (Jun 16, 2022)

hash tag said:


> A question is how much do you care and how much would you be willing to spend to keep the motor looking nice.


about £8.99 i think, for the moment.


----------



## High Voltage (Jun 16, 2022)

He was fined because he didn't take the simple / cheap option originally presented to him


----------



## srb7677 (Jun 16, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> The law hasn't changed. He was fined because the way he drove fell below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver. You might think that such expectations align perfectly with the advice published in the Highway Code, but case law over the years clearly demonstrates that not to be the case.
> 
> Regard close passing the HC has long stated "give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car". What has been added is "As a guide ... leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds"
> 
> So.. advice has been updated with a specified distance as a guide. None of that is mandatory - as I said, there will be plenty of situations where a pass closer than the one this man was fined for would not have been prosecuted.


Giving at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car appears to be a rule, ie mandatory. The actual distances have been added as a guide.

That seems clear enough to me, and it is likely than in any prosecution where a not guilty plea is entered that the guide distance will be taken into account as a reasonable benchmark.


----------



## alex_ (Jun 16, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> It doesn't mandate anything of the sort, it merely advises. If it did mandate then the situation would be clearer and easier to understand, but then there would be less flexibility
> 
> It's not the law, the law is "without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place" which is about as clear as mud. I'm sure there are lots of situations where a pass such as this would not have been prosecuted.




The bbc article says

“ Motorists must now leave a 1.5m (5ft) gap when overtaking cyclists, as well as slowing down. The gap must be 2m (6.5ft) when passing pedestrians or horse riders.”


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 16, 2022)

srb7677 said:


> Giving at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car appears to be a rule, ie mandatory. The actual distances have been added as a guide.



Nothing in the Highway Code is mandatory unless it is also an actual law.

The actual law in this case is Section 3 & 3A of the Road Traffic Act 1988

If in a particular situation a careful and competent driver would have overtaken a cyclist leaving a gap of 30cm, then no law is broken by a motorist overtaking with that gap.


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 16, 2022)

alex_ said:


> The bbc article says
> 
> “ Motorists must now leave a 1.5m (5ft) gap when overtaking cyclists, as well as slowing down. The gap must be 2m (6.5ft) when passing pedestrians or horse riders.”



That's bollocks - the 1.5m gap is a guideline accompanying some advice. There's no "must" about it.


----------



## marty21 (Jun 16, 2022)

High Voltage said:


> He was fined because he didn't take the simple / cheap option originally presented to him


that's how I see it - he could have paid the fine, or gone on an awareness course , but decided to ignore everything until he was in court for ignoring everything.


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 16, 2022)

marty21 said:


> that's how I see it - he could have paid the fine, or gone on an awareness course , but decided to ignore everything until he was in court for ignoring everything.



He said he might appeal, so I don’t think he ignored things, more like he felt he wanted justice and to be acquitted.


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 16, 2022)

ok without getting to much as cyclist don't annoy me on the road but was going home last night on a two lane road that is normally quite fast 40 mph speed limit and this fella in a bike thought the outside lane was a good idea 


pulled to the inside and got ahead of fella
some people just have a bit of a death wish


----------



## marty21 (Jun 16, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> He said he might appeal, so I don’t think he ignored things, more like he felt he wanted justice and to be acquitted.


That rarely ends well with traffic offences , unless you have some expert lawyer who specialises in this sort of thing. He could have paid £100 or so   spent 3 hours on a course , instead he will have to pay not far short of £5k .


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## sleaterkinney (Jun 27, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> That's bollocks - the 1.5m gap is a guideline accompanying some advice. There's no "must" about it.


How come he got a fine then?.

The problem is twats _just squeezing past,_ which happens way too much - they have no idea what a safe distance is and it's too much of a dent to their ego to be behind someone.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 27, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Nothing in the Highway Code is mandatory unless it is also an actual law.
> 
> The actual law in this case is Section 3 & 3A of the Road Traffic Act 1988
> 
> If in a particular situation a careful and competent driver would have overtaken a cyclist leaving a gap of 30cm, then no law is broken by a motorist overtaking with that gap.


Where has this 30cm come from?.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 1, 2022)

how desperate was Elpenor to move in?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 1, 2022)

Whoopsiedaisy


Tcut / gaffer tape. Sorted.


----------



## alex_ (Jul 1, 2022)

hash tag said:


> how desperate was Elpenor to move in?
> 
> View attachment 329855



Isn’t it one of those new vw electric things ?


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 1, 2022)

alex_ said:


> Isn’t it one of those new vw electric things ?



Yes, its an ID3.  It looks like a really shit low spec version though so likely an insurance job.


----------



## T & P (Jul 2, 2022)

VW have really dropped the ball by launching the ID3 & ID4 as the electric replacements of the Polo and Golf. The electric version of the latter is brilliant imo. Give it to me over an ID4 any day of the week design-wise.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 8, 2022)

Motoring Offences Sentencing Guidelines Consultation              - Ministry of Justice             - Citizen Space
					

Find and participate in consultations relating to the duties of the Ministry of Justice.



					consult.justice.gov.uk
				




consultation on motoring offences sentencing guidelines.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 8, 2022)

"The maximum penalty for causing death by driving whilst disqualified was raised from 2 years to 10 years’ imprisonment in 2015"

This certainly needs revising, if nothing else.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 8, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Nothing in the Highway Code is mandatory unless it is also an actual law.
> 
> The actual law in this case is Section 3 & 3A of the Road Traffic Act 1988
> 
> If in a particular situation a careful and competent driver would have overtaken a cyclist leaving a gap of 30cm, then no law is broken by a motorist overtaking with that gap.



Whilst this is correct, the highway code now very strongly suggests that to leave less than 1.5m at 30mph or less would always be considered to be an action below the standard expected of a competent driver.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 8, 2022)

hash tag said:


> "The maximum penalty for causing death by driving whilst disqualified was raised from 2 years to 10 years’ imprisonment in 2015"
> 
> This certainly needs revising, if nothing else.



It should be the same as manslaughter.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 9, 2022)

hash tag said:


> "The maximum penalty for causing death by driving whilst disqualified was raised from 2 years to 10 years’ imprisonment in 2015"
> 
> This certainly needs revising, if nothing else.




Can’t imagine this offence can happen in isolation though, so would always be concurrent with another sentence.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 9, 2022)

And it doesn’t seem there’s anything there to make dangerous driving easier to prove, this standard falling well below nonsense is a legal minefield in which the CPS fear to tread. Cycling U.K.’s idea of any action that would be an immediate fail in a driving test is much more simple and clear.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 9, 2022)

My instructor told me if I touched the kerb while reversing around a corner or while doing a 3 point turn it would be classed as dangerous driving and it would be an immediate fail. How Times change.


----------



## T & P (Jul 11, 2022)

Jamie Wallis: MP found guilty of driving offences
					

The Conservative MP has been fined £2,500 and disqualified for driving for six months.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




£2,500 fine and a six-month disqualification, which might seem a bit steep at first sight with regard to the particular incident. So I wonder if the judge might suspect he was tripping balls at the time or otherwise tired and emotional and did a runner to avoid being done for driving under the influence...


----------



## hash tag (Aug 6, 2022)

Interesting and difficult to see how cyclists can object Cyclists who kill pedestrians could face tougher sentences


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 6, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Interesting and difficult to see how cyclists can object Cyclists who kill pedestrians could face tougher sentences



On the face of it, no. What would count as dangerous? Not wearing hi-viz, cycling at more than 12 mph?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 6, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Interesting and difficult to see how cyclists can object Cyclists who kill pedestrians could face tougher sentences



I don't object, because it's a complete irrelevance given the rarity of these cases. The recent high-profile one was the woman who stepped out into the road without looking. No motorist would ever be convicted of killing someone who stepped into the road without looking. You can even mount the pavement, kill a small child and not get convicted.


----------



## dessiato (Aug 6, 2022)

I never thought I’d say this, I’d welcome the police doing speed checks through the village. The limit is 20, but there’s very few who come through at less than thirty. There was an accident yesterday due to speeding, luckily it was only cars that were damaged. Sooner or later the blind woman, a child, or indeed anyone, is going to be hurt. If the police actually policed the situation we might have fewer problems.

I don’t understand how people cannot drive within the law, and within the limits of the conditions. (I know I’ve driven well above the speed limits, some here will welcome the opportunity to call me names over it again, but I’ve grown up, and I’ve had extensive training in fast driving.)


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 6, 2022)

Perhaps all those people driving through your village at 30mph have had extensive training in fast driving too.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 6, 2022)

Perhaps it wasn't fast driving that "caused" the accident, more likely careless driving or not paying attention.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 6, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Interesting and difficult to see how cyclists can object Cyclists who kill pedestrians could face tougher sentences



My only objection is that any time they've spent on this would have been better spent sorting out the careless/dangerous driving laws, since drivers kill proportionately way more pedestrians (and other road users) than cyclists do.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 6, 2022)

BigTom said:


> My only objection is that any time they've spent on this would have been better spent sorting out the careless/dangerous driving laws, since drivers kill proportionately way more pedestrians (and other road users) than cyclists do.



Or even just enforcing the laws that are already on the books. Stop letting judges refuse to ban drivers with 12 points, that sort of thing.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 6, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Or even just enforcing the laws that are already on the books. Stop letting judges refuse to ban drivers with 12 points, that sort of thing.


Yes. Although those are different people/departments/budgets so it's not quite the same kind of either/or situation as rewriting the laws


----------



## chandlerp (Aug 8, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Perhaps it wasn't fast driving that "caused" the accident, more likely careless driving or not paying attention.


Speeding is careless driving


----------



## T & P (Aug 16, 2022)

'What seems to be the problem, officer?'


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 16, 2022)

chandlerp said:


> Speeding is careless driving



No, it isn't.


----------



## chandlerp (Aug 17, 2022)

Yes it is


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 17, 2022)

chandlerp said:


> Yes it is



No, it isn’t.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 19, 2022)

Spot the errr deliberate mistake and someone in a Tesla just did a 30 point turn a few feet away. Fuck me, what's wronfmg with people. The world has gone mad.


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## T & P (Aug 19, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Spot the errr deliberate mistake and someone in a Tesla just did a 30 point turn a few feet away. Fuck me, what's wronfmg with people. The world has gone mad.View attachment 338568


I don’t get it.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 19, 2022)

T & P said:


> I don’t get it.


Car is on the rhs of road?


----------



## spitfire (Aug 19, 2022)

T & P said:


> I don’t get it.



Wrong side of the road innit.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 20, 2022)

It is on the wrong side of islands/road at big junction in middle of London. He is in a large SUV so thats fine, he can do what he likes.


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## hash tag (Aug 22, 2022)

What do they teach you on a driving test these days? I thought they were supposed to be longer and much more detailed than ever before.
I have had two or three instances of this: we cross the white line the the lights go red. So car in front often stops at the lights opposite, where there is NO white line,
either going straight across like this junction yesterday or turning a corner. 
These were the light yesterday


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## Elpenor (Aug 22, 2022)

People in Bromley are idiots is the main conclusion you should draw from this


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## hash tag (Aug 22, 2022)

Not just Bromley. Seen it in several different places


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## liquidindian (Aug 22, 2022)

At that junction you can be an idiot in Croydon, Bromley and Lambeth.


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## T & P (Aug 22, 2022)

hash tag said:


> What do they teach you on a driving test these days? I thought they were supposed to be longer and much more detailed than ever before.
> I have had two or three instances of this: we cross the white line the the lights go red. So car in front often stops at the lights opposite, where there is NO white line,
> either going straight across like this junction yesterday or turning a corner.
> These were the light yesterday
> View attachment 339106


I know, that’s fucking annoying, and the stupid twats invariably refuse to proceed when people try to tell them that traffic light doesn’t apply to them.


----------



## Looby (Nov 4, 2022)

I feel like I’ve encountered every cunt in town in the last couple of days. 

Just really shitty driving. Aggressive, selfish and fucking dangerous. 

Yesterday I was on the end of a dual carriage way where the lanes filter into one. People get really pissy when anyone uses the right lane and tries to filter. 
I used the other lane, go to filter and the bloke beside speeds up and nearly hits the car in front to stop me. 
I probably should have just fallen behind at this point but I didn’t so he rushes forward again, pulls across the road in front and blocks me whilst screaming at me from his car. 

I really thought he was going to get out and start on me or my car. 

Fucking idiots on the motorway today, weaving and undertaking. 

Then there was loads of honking horns and shitty behaviour trying to get out of the Costco petrol station (£1.56 a litre 👍). 

Then I come home to my neighbour parked so far over on the drive he’s on my side and I’m fairly sure he’s damaged my door as the paintwork has a big chip with marks the colour of his car. 

It’s exhausting!


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## hash tag (Nov 4, 2022)

It's a war out there on the roads 😔


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## Elpenor (Nov 4, 2022)

I thought Costco was meant to be cheap for petrol? £1.56 is freely available round here


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## Looby (Nov 4, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I thought Costco was meant to be cheap for petrol? £1.56 is freely available round here


It’s about 10p cheaper than most garages I’ve seen around me (Dorset).


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## Elpenor (Nov 4, 2022)

Ah, £1.55 is my cheapest here if I go to Trago, but £1.56-57 more locally


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## Looby (Nov 4, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Ah, £1.55 is my cheapest here if I go to Trago, but £1.56-57 more locally


Lucky! I just checked and Asda seems to be the cheapest at £1.63 but it’s out of the way for me. 

It’s not local for me but I’ll stop there if I’m passing with work.


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## rubbershoes (Nov 4, 2022)

Anyone know why diesel is 25p a litre more expensive than petrol atm?  It used to be 6 or 7 p more but 25p is pretty normal now


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## hash tag (Nov 4, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Anyone know why diesel is 25p a litre more expensive than petrol atm?  It used to be 6 or 7 p more but 25p is pretty normal now


Tax has gone up on diesel because it's dirtier.
Mrs tag just paid £1.63


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## Elpenor (Nov 4, 2022)

The delta seemed to be more like 30p at the garages I passed in Taunton / Bridgwater this evening


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## platinumsage (Nov 4, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Anyone know why diesel is 25p a litre more expensive than petrol atm?  It used to be 6 or 7 p more but 25p is pretty normal now



Lots of refineries in Western Europe closed in the last couple of decades because it became cheaper to import refined diesel from places further afield such as Russia.


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## rubbershoes (Nov 4, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Tax has gone up on diesel because it's dirtier.
> Mrs tag just paid £1.63



£1.91 round here


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## rubbershoes (Nov 4, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> The delta seemed to be more like 30p at the garages I passed in Taunton / Bridgwater this evening



Just where I buy mine


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## hash tag (Nov 10, 2022)

If and only if you really wanted to use a blue light to slip through traffic you would follow it, not impede it - why else would you do this?








						Driver sentenced for blocking ambulance on 999 call
					

Albert Butler, 38, received a suspended prison sentence for impeding the ambulance.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 10, 2022)

hash tag said:


> If and only if you really wanted to use a blue light to slip through traffic you would follow it, not impede it - why else would you do this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Stupid fucking cunt. His sentence shouldn't have been suspended.


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## chandlerp (Nov 10, 2022)

He should have been suspended


----------



## 8ball (Nov 10, 2022)

I really can’t make any sense of that one unless he was having some sort of breakdown.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 10, 2022)

Normally such an article would mention the attempt at mitigation given by the defending solicitor, e.g. he'd just been expelled from police training, or his dog had been run over by a paramedic car six years ago or something.


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## existentialist (Nov 10, 2022)

hash tag said:


> If and only if you really wanted to use a blue light to slip through traffic you would follow it, not impede it - why else would you do this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd like to see a lot more "and has to take an extended test" in the sentencing of people like these. If they are to drive at all, they need to go back and learn how to do it properly. Which he clearly doesn't.

ETA: I just looked it up, and if the ban is longer than 56 days, you have to reapply for your licence, _and may have to take a test_. But it seems to be at the discretion of the court.


----------



## existentialist (Nov 10, 2022)

There's a bit more detail on what happened here: https://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/...and-obstructing-emergency-worker--maidenhead/



> The ambulance overtook a red Suzuki Vitara, being driven by Butler.
> 
> The Suzuki then overtook the ambulance, pulling directly in front of it and braking, intentionally slowing the ambulance down.
> 
> ...


What a tosser. Sounds like he got the red mist because <gasp> someone OVERTOOK him.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 10, 2022)

existentialist said:


> What a tosser. Sounds like he got the red mist because <gasp> someone OVERTOOK him.


overly competitive alpha male.


----------



## existentialist (Nov 10, 2022)

hash tag said:


> overly competitive alpha male.


If he needs to prove himself that badly, he's no alpha male.


----------



## dessiato (Nov 10, 2022)

I used to think that Spanish drivers were bad, but Scottish are worse.


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## Spymaster (Nov 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I used to think that Spanish drivers were bad, but Scottish are worse.



After years of research I finally now know which country has the worst drivers in the world. The answer is Turkey. Absolute dog shit standard of driving and it's not a minority of fuckwits like most other places, it's the vast majority. Really stupid, dangerous shit is considered perfectly normal.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> After years of research I finally now know which country has the worst drivers in the world. The answer is Turkey. Absolute dog shit standard of driving and it's not a minority of fuckwits like most other places, it's the vast majority. Really stupid, dangerous shit is considered perfectly normal.



Might surprise you, but Turkey’s rate for deaths on the roads is substantially better than the USA.

(Way more than double ours, though).


----------



## dessiato (Nov 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> After years of research I finally now know which country has the worst drivers in the world. The answer is Turkey. Absolute dog shit standard of driving and it's not a minority of fuckwits like most other places, it's the vast majority. Really stupid, dangerous shit is considered perfectly normal.


Have you ever been to Sudan? It’s the only place where I’ve been in fear of my life on nearly every journey. My regular driver started to drive reasonably after a constant nagging, but the one who used to take me to/from the university at which I taught was the most dangerous I’ve had to travel with. He thought nothing of going the wrong way down a busy dual carriageway because it saved time. Speeding through Khartoum was the rule. One driver as on the phone, applying her make up, and making notes while driving at about 100kph to the airport.

As for the taxi, amjad, and rickshaws, the drivers were far worse.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 18, 2022)

Nicked by police in Wandsworth.
"Using a mobile phone in any way is a distraction.
"Without any doubt it impairs people's ability to drive."
 "I would expect you to set a good example for the rest of us."









						Security minister Tom Tugendhat banned from driving over phone use
					

Kent MP Tom Tugendhat was caught driving his 4x4 with his phone in his hand in London.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## sim667 (Nov 18, 2022)

8ball said:


> I really can’t make any sense of that one unless he was having some sort of breakdown.


People intentionally block us on lights more often than you think. He went a step further and intentionally tried to cause and accident by break checking etc.

I’ve no idea why road users block us intentionally, it’s always men in high powered saloons or white vans who clearly do it on purpose, people in smaller cars do it by accident more commonly, motorcyclists are pretty good generally, bus and lorry drivers are fab…… I’ve seen a few sport cyclists intentionally blocking us too, but they’ve all be in the same area so it might be the same one or two doing it, again many cyclists are really good too. 

We also get ambulance spotters which I love, they know which call signs are assigned to which bases, their maintenance schedules, when and where each one was purchased….. I think the only thing the don’t really know is what personnel numbers are manning them on shifts.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 18, 2022)

sim667 said:


> I’ve no idea why road users block us intentionally, it’s always men in high powered saloons or white vans who clearly do it on purpose, people in smaller cars do it by accident more commonly, motorcyclists are pretty good generally, bus and lorry drivers are fab…… I’ve seen a few sport cyclists intentionally blocking us too, but they’ve all be in the same area so it might be the same one or two doing it, again many cyclists are really good too.



Thanks for the info.  From your experiences it seems to me like there is some wounded sense of entitlement / status underlying it.

Do you hand dashcam footage to the police whenever this happens, and does it get followed up?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 19, 2022)

8ball said:


> Do you hand dashcam footage to the police whenever this happens, and does it get followed up?


Nah, not really unless there’s someone specifically trying to cause an accident or an accident has occurred. The cameras on our trucks I doubt even work particularly reliably.

At the end of the day blue light drivers still have to follow the rules of the road and the Highway Code, but they just have 13 exemptions they can claim from the law, and half of those are parking ones anyway. We don’t have an ultimate right over other road users (although many think they do, there’s plenty of bad and entitled blue light drivers around too)


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 20, 2022)

I've not seen it this deep before - 3ft.


----------



## T & P (Nov 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I've not seen it this deep before - 3ft.



I find it fascinating that this spot has been known for many years to be as nearly impassable when flooded for most cars, complete with locals coming to watch proceedings as a brilliant piece of free street theatre, and laugh at you when you fail, and yet there’s no shortage of fucking idiots willing to risk hundreds or even thousands of quid in repair costs to cross it


----------



## quiet guy (Nov 20, 2022)

Yesterday I was driving from Birmingham to Liverpool and there were hundreds of idiots driving in the middle lanes when the inside lane was clear. They were oblivious to other road users and completely ignored the matrix signs saying Don't hog the middle lane.


----------



## souljacker (Nov 20, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> Yesterday I was driving from Birmingham to Liverpool and there were hundreds of idiots driving in the middle lanes when the inside lane was clear. They were oblivious to other road users and completely ignored the matrix signs saying Don't hog the middle lane.


That's my current major peeve with motorway driving and I swear its got worse recently. I flashed at a Tesla that was sat in the middle lane of a completely empty M40 the other day and the bloke was furious as I went past him. Then he started trying to get up my arse and started flashing me. He looked like a proper psycho too.


----------



## existentialist (Nov 20, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> Yesterday I was driving from Birmingham to Liverpool and there were hundreds of idiots driving in the middle lanes when the inside lane was clear. They were oblivious to other road users and completely ignored the matrix signs saying Don't hog the middle lane.


I grumble that the emphasis on speeding seems more likely to be based on ease of enforcement (it can be almost entirely machine-based), but it doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility to have gantry cameras that spot middle lane hoggers.

If I had my way, there'd be a big sign on the next gantry saying "XYZ 123P, stop hogging the middle lane, you twat", followed, if they continue, by a NIP in the post.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 20, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> Yesterday I was driving from Birmingham to Liverpool and there were hundreds of idiots driving in the middle lanes when the inside lane was clear. They were oblivious to other road users and completely ignored the matrix signs saying Don't hog the middle lane.


Despite being an offence now 😔


----------



## quiet guy (Nov 20, 2022)

Only if a copper sees it and they're as rare as hens teeth out on the motorway


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 21, 2022)

Surrey filth have been boasting that they've been nicking people for middle-lane-hogging on the A3 recently, doesn't seem to make any difference at all, on Saturday I went from the M25 to Guildford and I was the only person who used the driving lane, every other car was in the first overtaking lane, in spite of there being nothing to overtake.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 21, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Surrey filth have been boasting that they've been nicking people for middle-lane-hogging on the A3 recently, doesn't seem to make any difference at all, on Saturday I went from the M25 to Guildford and I was the only person who used the driving lane, every other car was in the first overtaking lane, in spite of there being nothing to overtake.


Fortunately, I rarely see police on the A3 🤔


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 21, 2022)

Toyota driver hogging A3 middle lane gets comeuppance
					

Surrey Police caught the driver in Guildford




					www.getsurrey.co.uk
				




Apparently you can get 3 points and £100 fine issued at the roadside for it.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 21, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Toyota driver hogging A3 middle lane gets comeuppance
> 
> 
> Surrey Police caught the driver in Guildford
> ...



Good.


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## platinumsage (Nov 21, 2022)

Get a Hummer and punt them on to the verge.


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## platinumsage (Nov 24, 2022)

Kills a motorbike rider and gets away with just a fine.


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## 8ball (Nov 24, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Kills a motorbike rider and gets away with just a fine.



No engine.  Doesn’t count.


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## hash tag (Nov 24, 2022)

8ball said:


> No engine.  Doesn’t count.


No insurance or licence either


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## T & P (Nov 24, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Kills a motorbike rider and gets away with just a fine.


I’m sure I remember any suggestions that reckless cyclist or pedestrian actions are not always harmless and can sometimes result in serious injury or even death to bikers, being regularly laughed off as made up nonsense in the anti car thread.

I no longer dip my toe in that particular cesspool, but I’m sure some of the regulars there will want to know about this, so they can organise a campaign to reverse the court’s findings. Outrageous that the poor cyclist has been fined at all, frankly. How could the more vulnerable road user in a collision ever possibly be at fault??


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## hash tag (Nov 26, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Kills a motorbike rider and gets away with just a fine.


That road has a 40 MPH speed limit. It must have been a freak accident and very unlucky for a motorbike rider to die at that speed, especially given all the protection they normally wear.


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## Looby (Nov 26, 2022)

hash tag said:


> That road has a 40 MPH speed limit. It must have been a freak accident and very unlucky for a motorbike rider to die at that speed, especially given all the protection they normally wear.


No it doesn’t, 30 max all around there.


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## platinumsage (Nov 26, 2022)

Lots of easy ways to die at 40mph or even 30mph if you e.g. fly into a lamppost.


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## hash tag (Nov 26, 2022)

Looby said:


> No it doesn’t, 30 max all around there.


Sorry, yes. I was confusing that one with a similar one on A12 for some reason


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## _Russ_ (Dec 1, 2022)

Dense fog last 2 days in my area, somewhere around 1 in 8 going around thinking just the daytime driving lights fitted is perfectly ok, even one driving school car with instructor and student onboard I followed for 6 miles with no rear lights visible, the on the last mile home of my cycle ride today with a constant light on my bike and a flashing light on my helmet another learner and instructor pulled out on me after staring straight into my eyes and waiting till i was 2 foot away.
Im surrounded by arseholes


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 6, 2022)

Someone sprayed 'move' on cars and smashed their windows for parking on pavement
					

The cars targeted were ones blocking the pavement.




					metro.co.uk
				




Finally some revenge on pavement-blocking filth.

I note the article, not actually quoting anyone, says:

_The road is quite a narrow residential street and if people did not use the pavement, people would not be able to park on both sides._

Which should read:

_The road is too narrow for people to park on both sides but they do anyway because they're filthy cunts._


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## alex_ (Dec 6, 2022)

Sounds like one side needs double yellows….


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## 8ball (Dec 6, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Someone sprayed 'move' on cars and smashed their windows for parking on pavement
> 
> 
> The cars targeted were ones blocking the pavement.
> ...



I hope it was someone in a disability scooter.


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## dervish (Dec 9, 2022)

Motorists urged to drive with a bowl of water in car this winter to save on fuel
					

Car owners are being told to travel with a bowl of water on their passenger seat in a bizarre hack that could save you fuel and money in the run-up to Christmas




					www.mirror.co.uk
				




I think this has to be some of the worst fuel saving advice I have ever seen, how the hell are you supposed to drive safely when you have put a huge distraction in the passenger seat of the car?

Holding a phone is a huge distraction and illegal, but putting a bowl of water in the passenger seat is good advice apparently. Utterly bizarre.


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## Spymaster (Dec 9, 2022)

dervish said:


> Motorists urged to drive with a bowl of water in car this winter to save on fuel
> 
> 
> Car owners are being told to travel with a bowl of water on their passenger seat in a bizarre hack that could save you fuel and money in the run-up to Christmas
> ...



I don't think that's a serious article.


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## hash tag (Dec 9, 2022)

dervish said:


> Motorists urged to drive with a bowl of water in car this winter to save on fuel
> 
> 
> Car owners are being told to travel with a bowl of water on their passenger seat in a bizarre hack that could save you fuel and money in the run-up to Christmas
> ...


The logic behind that being it will encourage the driver to drive very smoothly. Alas, there are no accounting for potholes and speed humps. 
Reminds me, I was getting late for the club bus to an away match once. On leaving the house, I grappled a hot mug of tea to drink on the way in the car ( I was not driving). Where do you place the mug when you are checking for match tickets, wallet etc. Yes, the scolding tea emptied out over my groin 😮


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 21, 2022)

T & P said:


> I’m sure I remember any suggestions that reckless cyclist or pedestrian actions are not always harmless and can sometimes result in serious injury or even death to bikers, being regularly laughed off as made up nonsense in the anti car thread.
> 
> I no longer dip my toe in that particular cesspool, but I’m sure some of the regulars there will want to know about this, so they can organise a campaign to reverse the court’s findings. Outrageous that the poor cyclist has been fined at all, frankly. How could the more vulnerable road user in a collision ever possibly be at fault??


I always think when someone indulges in whataboutery that it's hit a bit too close to home.


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 21, 2022)

Deliberately ram a cyclist, fracturing a vertebrae and pelvis and drive off leaving him there? . You might get a curfew!



			https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/crime/driver-68-rammed-rider-off-his-bike-in-falkirk-road-rage-horror-3959359


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## chandlerp (Dec 22, 2022)

Jesus Christ


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## hash tag (Dec 22, 2022)

"The court heard Reid accepted he had “behaved badly” and had “done wrong”. He was said to have paid damages to the cyclist."

Thats ok then!


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

Seems to me like there’s something left out of the accounts here.


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> Seems to me like there’s something left out of the accounts here.


Like what?


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Like what?



Dunno, obv.  But deliberately using a car as a weapon to attack someone doesn’t seem like a normal case for “show remorse and pay damages”, regardless of whether it’s a first offence.

Could have been all manner of things, circumstances like a cancer diagnosis of him or someone close to him that morning, something relating to the cyclist, something related to someone else having a campaign of harassment against him that led him to jump to a conclusion about the cyclist, perhaps he’s an essential carer for someone, maybe undergoing some medical stuff that is best not disrupted etc. It’s not hard to think of stuff.

Maybe something involving good reasons for the omission (and not the press being the press) too.


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## alex_ (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> Dunno, obv.  But deliberately using a car as a weapon to attack someone doesn’t seem like a normal case for “show remorse and pay damages”, regardless of whether it’s a first offence.
> 
> Could have been all manner of things, circumstances like a cancer diagnosis of him or someone close to him that morning, something relating to the cyclist, something related to someone else having a campaign of harassment against him that led him to jump to a conclusion about the cyclist, perhaps he’s an essential carer for someone, maybe undergoing some medical stuff that is best not disrupted etc. It’s not hard to think of stuff.
> 
> Maybe something involving good reasons for the omission (and not the press being the press) too.



So if you have a serious life event you get a free pass at a cyclist - does this apply to anything else in life ?


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

alex_ said:


> So if you have a serious life event you get a free pass at a cyclist - does this apply to anything else in life ?



Just marking for my "dumbest posts" dossier...

#fwit


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## alex_ (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> Just marking for my "dumbest posts" dossier...
> 
> #fwit



It’s what you are suggesting


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

alex_ said:


> It’s what you are suggesting



Really not up to the standard of your previous post, but keep at it.


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## Spymaster (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> Dunno, obv.  But deliberately using a car as a weapon to attack someone doesn’t seem like a normal case for “show remorse and pay damages”, regardless of whether it’s a first offence.
> 
> Could have been all manner of things, circumstances like a cancer diagnosis of him or someone close to him that morning, something relating to the cyclist, something related to someone else having a campaign of harassment against him that led him to jump to a conclusion about the cyclist, perhaps he’s an essential carer for someone, maybe undergoing some medical stuff that is best not disrupted etc. It’s not hard to think of stuff.
> 
> Maybe something involving good reasons for the omission (and not the press being the press) too.



It's a shite piece in a local rag, probably penned by a student reporter, which doesn't detail what was given in defence. As you say it looks like there were xetenuating circumstances, or possibly the cyclist was to blame in some other way.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's a shite piece in a local rag, probably penned by a student reporter, which doesn't detail what was given in defence. As you say it looks like there were xetenuating circumstances, or possibly the cyclist was to blame in some other way.



I don't want to jump towards blaming the cyclist, but all sorts of possibilities, sure.


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## alex_ (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> Really not up to the standard of your previous post, but keep at it.



Your post comes up with a huge list of reasons which are potential mitigating factors

“Could have been all manner of things, circumstances like a cancer diagnosis of him or someone close to him that morning, something relating to the cyclist, something related to someone else having a campaign of harassment against him that led him to jump to a conclusion about the cyclist, perhaps he’s an essential carer for someone, maybe undergoing some medical stuff that is best not disrupted etc. It’s not hard to think of stuff.“

I’m only asking if these apply to any other situations in life?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 22, 2022)

Not sure why deliberately ramming in to a cyclist with a car isn't attempted murder.


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## Spymaster (Dec 22, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not sure why deliberately ramming in to a cyclist with a car isn't attempted murder.



Lack of _mens rea_. There needs to be proof of an intention to kill.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

alex_ said:


> I’m only asking if these apply to any other situations in life?



No you're not.

But taking the question as asked - I believe mitigating factors are not something that were just invented for this particular case.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Lack of _mens rea_. There needs to be proof of an intention to kill.



I think with an intention to hurt and the fact that hitting someone with a car can very plausibly kill them, it's likely over the threshold.


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## Spymaster (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> I think with an intention to hurt and the fact that hitting someone with a car can very plausibly kill them, it's likely over the threshold.



Nah. It has to be an intenton to kill or commit GBH.

If he says his intention was to scare or give him a light tap it's hard to see how an intention to kill can be considered proven, especially if, as is so often the case, the cyclist initiated the confrontation.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Nah. It has to be an intenton to kill or commit GBH.
> 
> If he says his intention was to scare or give him a light tap it's hard to see how an intention to kill can be considered proven.



Yeah, think you’re right, looking at it.
I read so many things involving US law that I think I get the systems mixed up.

I wonder whether it would be simple manslaughter if the person has died, or whether a murder charge would then be in the frame…


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Lack of _mens rea_. There needs to be proof of an intention to kill.



or commit serious harm

Sure the article is a local rag and even 'respsected' national rags are pretty poor with details these days, however a direct quote from the article:




			
				Sheriff Alison Michie said:
			
		

> The manner of your driving saw you repeatedly swerving until you struck the cyclist with your car to his very seriously injury – fracturing a vertebra and his pelvis. You say you experienced a red mist



Swerving repeatedly until you strike a cyclist, any reasonable person would know that is likely to result in serious injury, and indeed in this case it did. So meets the threshold, but as so often is the case, car drivers are held to a lower standard of account than others whose violent outbursts cause serious harm.


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## Spymaster (Dec 22, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> or commit serious harm
> 
> Sure the article is a local rag and even 'respsected' national rags are pretty poor with details these days, however a direct quote from the article:
> 
> ...



He was probably trying to swerve out of the way to prevent the cyclist from ramming him.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> or commit serious harm
> 
> Sure the article is a local rag and even 'respsected' national rags are pretty poor with details these days, however a direct quote from the article:
> 
> Swerving repeatedly until you strike a cyclist, any reasonable person would know that is likely to result in serious injury, and indeed in this case it did. So meets the threshold, but as so often is the case, car drivers are held to a lower standard of account than others whose violent outbursts cause serious harm.



I think that would have been an argument for a murder charge if the cyclist had died, but with attempted murder I think the intention to kill is primary.
It's one of those cases of "moral luck".


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> I don't want to jump towards blaming the cyclist, but all sorts of possibilities, sure.


You so do. It can't all be the drivers fault.


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> He was probably trying to swerve out of the way to prevent the cyclist from ramming him.


Of course, time for some wanker bantz.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> You so do. It can't all be the drivers fault.



I get that Christmas can be a stressful time.  Maybe a little sit down and a nice cup of tea would help both your frazzled nerves and your reading comprehension.


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> I get that Christmas can be a stressful time.  Maybe a little sit down and a nice cup of tea would help both your frazzled nerves and your reading comprehension.


You're the one getting mixed up with US law!, my nerves are fine.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> You're the one getting mixed up with US law!, my nerves are fine.



What are you dribbling on about?  A few minutes ago you were wibbling about it not being the driver's fault.
Do you have any point to make?


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## Spymaster (Dec 22, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Of course, time for some wanker bantz.



Always


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> What are you dribbling on about?  A few minutes ago you were wibbling about it not being the driver's fault.
> Do you have any point to make?


I wasn’t, and you posted that you were getting mixed up with US law a few posts previously. Maybe you need a cup of tea and a stfu?.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> I wasn’t, and you posted that you were getting mixed up with US law a few posts previously. Maybe you need a cup of tea and a stfu?.



#3,249 

And how are US vs UK distinctions re: attempted murder relevant to anything that you have tried to say.
Anyone else picking up a strong whiff of "butthurt and looking for a win".

I'm just not sure why...


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> #3,249
> 
> And how are US vs UK distinctions re: attempted murder relevant to anything that you have tried to say.
> Anyone else picking up a strong whiff of "butthurt and looking for a win".
> ...


Try reading 3249 again, and the post I responded to.

I’m neither of those things, you’re just very confused.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Try reading 3249 again, and the post I responded to.
> 
> I’m neither of those things, you’re just very confused.



#fwit


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> #fwit


As opposed to what?. Wibbling on about an imaginary cancer diagnosis of someone close to him?.


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> As opposed to what?. Wibbling on about an imaginary cancer diagnosis of someone close to him?.



Please don't wear out my tags.


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## Elpenor (Jan 6, 2023)

Was tailgated by a bus earlier tonight, until eventually they overtook me. later on, having passed me when we entered a dual carriageway section of road, but with the bus still visible ahead the same vehicle made what seemed to be a very shit manoeuvre (sudden lane change which caused another vehicle to take evasive action) 

Should I report to the bus company? Was a bit pissed off about being tailgated as the conditions were rather poor and I had dropped my speed accordingly. There were no vehicles behind the bus so no reason to tailgate me. Bus appeared to be out of service as no passengers on board or lights on in the passenger cabin


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## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2023)

Elpenor said:


> Should I report to the bus company?



Yes


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## hash tag (Jan 6, 2023)

Spymaster said:


> Yes


Good luck if you do. I nearly got fun by a black cab once making an illegal turn while on a mobile phone. I reported him, the operators didn't give a toss.


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## Elpenor (Jan 6, 2023)

It’s on the list of things to do at the weekend. I’ve got a reg number and also location.


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## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2023)

hash tag said:


> Good luck if you do. I nearly got fun by a black cab once making an illegal turn while on a mobile phone. I reported him, the operators didn't give a toss.



Bus firms take things a bit more seriously if they can trace the driver.


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## Elpenor (Tuesday at 1:59 PM)

I’ve reported it at the weekend and had an email today from the bus company which said amongst other things:



> you are right to bring this to our attention.


Anyway with the information I provided they think they can identify the driver and take any action as required. 

I hope the driver doesn’t lose their job, but then you think about that bin lorry driver in Scotland who killed several people. Certainly if I’d had to make an emergency stop the bus would have gone straight into me


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