# RIP Tony Benn



## cesare (Mar 14, 2014)

Radio 4 reporting that he died in the early hours of this morning.


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## fishfinger (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP


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## marty21 (Mar 14, 2014)

BBC breakfast reporting it now - RIP


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## quimcunx (Mar 14, 2014)

Thank you for starting a new thread. 

RIP.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 14, 2014)

Sad news  

RIP Mr Benn


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## Schmetterling (Mar 14, 2014)

Just saw on the Guardian website.  

Well, you go man.  It is a beautiful day.  You have done well.  Good bye!


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## cesare (Mar 14, 2014)

He had a good innings at least. He used to eat in the HoL restaurant for normal staff, it wasn't unusual to see him in there.


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## fizzerbird (Mar 14, 2014)

I met him once..back in the late 70's

RIP Tony Benn


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## Smick (Mar 14, 2014)

Good on him, he had achieved so much and was at an age where he couldn't go on forever.

Still, Bob Crow and Tony Ben in the one week. God must be a Tory.


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## cesare (Mar 14, 2014)

He bought button a cup of tea once. Button was standing behind him in the queue at some lefty TU conference and Tony Benn just bought his cup of tea for him.


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## Yu_Gi_Oh (Mar 14, 2014)

Sad news indeed.


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## sptme (Mar 14, 2014)

So sad, first Bob Crow, now Tony Ben. RIP


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## N_igma (Mar 14, 2014)

Sad news.

RIP Tony


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## yardbird (Mar 14, 2014)

A gentleman.
I regularly used to pass his house on Holland Park Avenue and he would pass the time of day.
I liked him.
RIP Tony.


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## SikhWarrioR (Mar 14, 2014)

Why oh why are we losing all the good people when there are conservatives, lib-democrats, fatcats and banksters still breathing. First Bob Crow now Tony Benn


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 14, 2014)

I met the bloke twice about a year apart and he remembered me, which was quite impressive given his age and the number of people he must have met.

Mind you I was on a panel show with him and he said everything I planned to say before I got a chance to speak -


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## Mr Moose (Mar 14, 2014)

SikhWarrioR said:


> Why oh why are we losing all the good people when there are conservatives, lib-democrats, fatcats and banksters still breathing. First Bob Crow now Tony Benn



Possibly in the latter's case because he was 88. Time to celebrate a life rather than ponder any tragedy.


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## DexterTCN (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP.  Not many like him


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## chilango (Mar 14, 2014)

For someone who wasn't one of us, he certainly had a good go at at least trying to be on our side.

RIP.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP Tony.


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2014)

He was nice to Mation.


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## Crispy (Mar 14, 2014)

Damn


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## purves grundy (Mar 14, 2014)

Bugger  A great man. RIP.


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2014)

heard him speak a few times at Gaza etc demos he always seemed really compassionate, didn't agree with his politics but it's really sad, good constituency MP by all accounts too  RIP


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## farmerbarleymow (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP. He had a good innings but still sad to see a decent politician die. A rare example of the breed unfortunately.


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## Balbi (Mar 14, 2014)

The expected from Cameron...

​




And similar from Milband...



> [Benn] will be remembered as a champion of the powerless, a great parliamentarian and a conviction politician.
> 
> Tony Benn spoke his mind and spoke up for his values. Whether you agreed with him or disagreed with him, everyone knew where he stood and what he stood for.
> 
> ...



I'm mildly spitting at the repetition of...



> Tony Benn spoke his mind and spoke up for his values. Whether you agreed with him or disagreed with him, everyone knew where he stood and what he stood for.



Which is mighty similar to his Thatch and Crow statements. Miliband finds it impossible to endorse someone as loved as Benn


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2014)

> For someone of such strong views, often at odds with his party, he won respect from across the political spectrum.



Isn't this word for word what he said about Thatcher?


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## Shirl (Mar 14, 2014)

I can't think of any other living politicians that I like. I'm very sad that he's gone but he live a good life.


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## newbie (Mar 14, 2014)

a politician worthy of mourning, they don't make many of them.  

RIP


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## Balbi (Mar 14, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Isn't this word for word what he said about Thatcher?



Close...



> *“The Labour Party disagreed with much of what she did and she will always remain a controversial figure. But we can disagree and also greatly respect her political achievements and her personal strength.*


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## ibilly99 (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP  a great man and a real one off - used to look forward to his stint at Glastonbury in the Speaker's Tent - always worth listening to every word of his anecdotage mined from a rich and well spent life.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2014)

Smick said:


> Good on him, he had achieved so much and was at an age where he couldn't go on forever.
> 
> Still, Bob Crow and Tony Ben in the one week. God must be a Tory.


rip tb. but weeks like this give me hope that dc, ids, tm and wh cld all go in one week


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## Voley (Mar 14, 2014)

I met briefly once and liked him too. RIP Tony.


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## Belushi (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP Tony.

I met him once on a demo, he stopped and talked to us for ages (a group of children) about why we were there and why it was important.


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## Mation (Mar 14, 2014)




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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP 

Another one gone


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## SaskiaJayne (Mar 14, 2014)

Yes, RIP Tony, 88, so a good innings & a good life, you were there throughout my life right from my young teenaged years when I was learning about political stuff & forming opinions. I always enjoyed listening to you & reading stuff you wrote.


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## Manter (Mar 14, 2014)

Oh bloody hell. RIP


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> rip tb. but weeks like this give me hope that dc, ids, tm and wh cld all go in one week



Well Thatcher is still dead.


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## DRINK? (Mar 14, 2014)

sptme said:


> So sad, first Bob Crow, now Tony Ben. RIP



Typical socialists ...one out all out


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## StoneRoad (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP Tony.

I met him a few times, but my father knew him quite well, mostly from his time as an MP in Bristol but also the TU movement.

As a politician, I had great respect for him and more so as a person. He stood up for what he thought was right.

He'll be greatly missed by family, friends and many others.


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## Balbi (Mar 14, 2014)

DRINK? said:


> Typical socialists ...one out all out



 You bastard, I'm nicking that.


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## jakethesnake (Mar 14, 2014)

This is sad news. He was a great man; a clear and compassionate thinker with bags of integrity.


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## Epona (Mar 14, 2014)

I'm probably more upset than I ought to be, given that I only met him a few times, and only in his later years.

Tbh I'd be pleased to reach 88.

But it's still the end of the life of someone who I have had a lot of regard for, and has been something of a constant throughout my life.  Not that I always agreed with him, just that he was always there, and generally speaking, we were on the same side.

RIP


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## Guineveretoo (Mar 14, 2014)

He was a wonderful politician and a wonderful person and, yes, he had a good innings, and had been ill for a while, but it's still sad because it's the end of an era - like others have said, he was always there, and he won't be anymore. 

I met him several times on demos and union events, and also saw him on the main stage at the Cambridge Folk Festival, of all places.


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## treefrog (Mar 14, 2014)

pretty much sums it up aye.


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## Mungy (Mar 14, 2014)

god you are an utter bastard. you take, with impunity, the great, the people who would speak for those who can't and leave complete undeserving twats to walk and breathe the air, to steal the very life from the children you claim to love.

RIP


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## ChrisD (Mar 14, 2014)

I raise my mug of tea in tribute. Thank you TB.  RIP


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## Voley (Mar 14, 2014)

The last time I saw him speak he was urging people to strike the moment the invasion of Iraq was announced. I knew it would never happen but I liked that even at his age he still valued collective dissent. I didn't always agree with him, either, but I thought he was on our side. It's rare for me to think that of any politician.


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## eatmorecheese (Mar 14, 2014)

Whatever side of the fence you saw him, he was unashamedly socialist and a sincere believer in collective action. His was a vocation, not a career. RIP teacher


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## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

A bad week for socialism 

RIP Tony. One of a kind.


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## newbie (Mar 14, 2014)

..._I met him_.... is already becoming a theme.  So did I, a few times on protests and that, he came over as a lovely bloke, even back when he was younger and being seriously demonised you couldn't help but notice the twinkle and the charm. But my point is that he was out there meeting and supporting people in struggle, doing what he could, all the time. His commitment puts the rest of us to shame, obviously, but also sets him apart from all but a very, very, very few politicians.  

He'll be missed not only for what he said, but also because of who he was.


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## Epona (Mar 14, 2014)

Voley said:


> The last time I saw him speak he was urging people to strike the moment the invasion of Iraq was announced. I knew it would never happen but I liked that even at his age he still valued collective dissent. I didn't always agree with him, either, but I thought he was on our side. It's rare for me to think that of any politician.



Aye, my main disagreement with him was that he was ultimately a reformist and a parliamentarian - but there were more things with which we agreed than disagreed in the last 20 years, he was a great speaker, and stood up for a lot of stuff like anti-war campaigns, and gave up his time to speak for those things.


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## teqniq (Mar 14, 2014)

somehow feels like the end of an era, RIP


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## Greebo (Mar 14, 2014)

He was passionate about getting people to understand why politics mattered, stuck to his principles, used his years well, and had a good long life.  His egalitarian values weren't just something used to advance his political career either, or he wouldn't have treated children and strangers every bit as well as people who already had influence.

RIP Tony Benn - sadly missed, difficult to replace, but he tried harder than most to encourage those who'd be along later.


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## Balbi (Mar 14, 2014)

He recorded a thank you video with Channel 4


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## RedDragon (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP




Can we have two of theirs now?


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## SaskiaJayne (Mar 14, 2014)

Just said on Radio4, 'It was Tony Benn who got me interested in politics'. I would agree with that.


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## Quartz (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP, sir.


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## Awesome Wells (Mar 14, 2014)

Sad that the most wretched tory government has outlived him during his golden years. Not one of them is fit to shine his shoes.


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## cesare (Mar 14, 2014)

Balbi said:


> He recorded a thank you video with Channel 4



"Cheers, Tony"
"Cheers, everyone"


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2014)

Tony Benn inspired me to join the Labour Party.

Kinnock inspired me to leave.


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## pesh (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP


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## sleaterkinney (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP


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## SikhWarrioR (Mar 14, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Tony Benn inspired me to join the Labour Party.
> 
> Kinnock inspired me to leave.



That early.......My labour party membership and voting made it though increasingly in desperation untill the arrival of the grinning spinning blair then it was a case of new labour now no longer fit for purpose


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## MellySingsDoom (Mar 14, 2014)

Didn't absolutely 100% agree with everything he did (effectively closing down UK pirate radio in the 1960's - boo! - and attempting to co-opt early 1970's London-based militant hippies/freaks (the Mick Farren/"International Times" axis here) into the Labour Party (without listening to a single word of Farren and co's concerns and issues - Farren deeply mistrusted Benn since then)), but otherwise, he had a hell of a lot to say (v much of it good), and was never ashamed to call himself a socialist - even when it became a thoroughly dirty word in the LP.  Supported a huge range of good causes (both political and elsewhere), and was always up for a good argument/bunfight.

So then: RIP Tony Benn - you shall be missed at this end


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## keybored (Mar 14, 2014)




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## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

Underneath the Mail's headline on his death are 4 bullet points - presumably the four things they consider most important about his life. 

Number 4 is "Was famously once spoofed on the Ali G show"


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## rasputin (Mar 14, 2014)

I remember meeting him at a book signing, of one of his diary volumes, near Liverpool Street station.  A charming man and a gentleman.  RIP.

Edited to add: though he undoubtedly considered himself a Socialist, it always struck me that he interpreted that in a very pure way.  Reading his diaries, he uses the works "democrat" and "democracy" more than he ever used the term socialism.  To him, it was all about empowering the people.


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## newbie (Mar 14, 2014)

I wonder if there'll be an opportunity for the public to join his funeral procession.  From, say, the Embankment to Speakers Corner?


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## Idris2002 (Mar 14, 2014)

Just got a text from my Mum: "the real labour party is gone for ever".


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## newbie (Mar 14, 2014)

MellySingsDoom said:


> effectively closing down UK pirate radio in the 1960,s - boo! -


I too hated it at the time, but replacing cowboy international capital with nationalised and heavily regulated industry was part of his vision.


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## sim667 (Mar 14, 2014)

Didn't always go for his politics, but he was one person you'd always stop and listen to regardless. Theres not many politicians like that, they're a rare breed.

RIP


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## MellySingsDoom (Mar 14, 2014)

newbie said:


> I too hated it at the time, but replacing cowboy international capital with nationalised and heavily regulated industry was part of his vision.



A very good point there, actually.  Still, them pirate stations, eh?  (Gazes off into the distance etc etc etc)


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## DaRealSpoon (Mar 14, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Just got a text from my Mum: "the real labour party is gone for ever".



Ha, snap (ish) My old dear just text me to say 'The only politician you ever needed to hear has gone'. I don't think there will be another politician in my lifetime like Benn. Sad day indeed.


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## BoatieBird (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP Tony. One of the good ones 
Someone who helped shape my political views as a teenager.


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## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

from Twitter : 
*David Schneider* ‏@davidschneider  1h
Tony Benn showed that the true essence of socialism is a deep and genuine interest in other people and how to make life better for them #RIP

yep, nice people making 'life better' for 'other people' -  Nu Lab luvee nails socialism


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## brogdale (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP Tony.

In his last recorded interview to R4's 'Today' programme he closed with these words...

"*Believe what you say, and say what you believe*"

A pretty fair epitaph, I'd say.






(From when I was able to have a chat with TB outside last year's "People's Assembly"...sorry it's out of focus...I wasn't concentrating on the photography).


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2014)

SikhWarrioR said:


> Why oh why are we losing all the good people when there are conservatives, lib-democrats, fatcats and banksters still breathing. First Bob Crow now Tony Benn


 
It was interesting on Radio 4 - there was another story about some conservative guy dieing in a helicopter crash. All anybody said about him was that he was "the richest man in Northern Ireland". That seemed to underline the fact that Benn had a much more impressive legacy...


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## belboid (Mar 14, 2014)

Died on the anniversary of Karl Marx's death, which is, at least, quite fitting.

RIP Tony


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## wiskey (Mar 14, 2014)

Sad 

Used to see him at Glastonbury, both intentionally and accidentally. 

RIP


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2014)

The last time I saw him was at a Stop the War rally last September in Trafalgar Square. He was frail but he still made a good speech.

The best PM we never had. RIP Tony and his pipe of peace.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2014)

Tony Benn in full effect.


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## William of Walworth (Mar 14, 2014)

wiskey said:


> Sad
> 
> *Used to see him at Glastonbury, both intentionally and accidentally. *
> 
> RIP



Same -- several times.

I'm agreeing, pretty much, with what everybody else has said ......


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## MellySingsDoom (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> from Twitter :
> *David Schneider* ‏@davidschneider  1h
> Tony Benn showed that the true essence of socialism is a deep and genuine interest in other people and how to make life better for them #RIP
> 
> yep, nice people making 'life better' for 'other people' -  Nu Lab luvee nails socialism



So then - what have you got to say specifically about Benn's death - not other people's views - yours?

I'll be back on this thread to check out your views etc later on.


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## Guineveretoo (Mar 14, 2014)

I really think it is telling how many people are saying that they met him. People on facebook who are not particularly politically active are saying that they met him, as well as people like me who met him at union events. 

I hope other politicians learn from him - a real "man of the people"!


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## imposs1904 (Mar 14, 2014)

My favourite pic of Tony Benn:








88 is a good shout. RiP.


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## andysays (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP


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## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

MellySingsDoom said:


> So then - what have you got to say specifically about Benn's death - not other people's views - yours?
> 
> I'll be back on this thread to check out your views etc later on.


congrats on your promotion to 'thread subject mod', and your establishment of this new rule governing the reporting of others views.

plse come back later and I'll have come up with something nice about TB

You utter dweeb.


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## articul8 (Mar 14, 2014)

would be interesting to know how history would have turned out if he'd won the Deupty leadership contest against Healy  He wasn't perfect of course - for example his naive faith in the UN, and in the   But a damn sight better than most of the party today.  RIP Tony


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## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

honestly, the utter shit flying around twitter and the like in relation to TB, and now we have fuckwits on here trying to decide what people post on this thread, its embarassing - TB was a funny old kind of socialist, and people will claim all sorts in his name, but i think we can all be pretty sure he wouldnt have expected anyone to tip toe about after his death muttering platitudes in the name of some sort formalised, meaningless 'respect'.He was better than that.


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## ffsear (Mar 14, 2014)

Man had a sense if humour too,   saw Ali G coming a mile off but played along.   RIP


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## Roadkill (Mar 14, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> The best PM we never had. RIP Tony and his pipe of peace.



And his pint mug of tea!

Really sad news, this.  RIP Tony.


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## susie12 (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP.  A life well lived.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP 
Sad news


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## shygirl (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP lovely man.  Heard him speak at many rallies and really appreciated his support for a united Ireland.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 14, 2014)

ffsear said:


> Man had a sense if humour too,   saw Ali G coming a mile off but played along.   RIP




He is brilliant in this. Plays it wonderfully, and highlights the mess we are in right now. 
He completely wins the whole skit.


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## DownwardDog (Mar 14, 2014)

Per ardua ad astra.


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## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2014)

I always liked Wedgie. 

RIP.


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## barney_pig (Mar 14, 2014)

imposs1904 said:


> My favourite pic of Tony Benn:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 good one of my belly too

 with both Crow and Benn up there God is going to have his hands full
 RIP


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## fractionMan (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP


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## Doctor Carrot (Mar 14, 2014)

See Ya Tony.


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## veracity (Mar 14, 2014)

Goodbye comrade.

RIP.


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## RedDragon (Mar 14, 2014)

Mega yawn at the tory platitudes, it sounds like they were reciting from the same script they used for Bob Crow.


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## poului (Mar 14, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Mega yawn at the tory platitudes, it sounds like they were reciting from the same script they used for Bob Crow.



Reminds me of this somewhat...


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## Onket (Mar 14, 2014)

chilango said:


> For someone who wasn't one of us, he certainly had a good go at at least trying to be on our side.
> 
> RIP.





newbie said:


> a politician worthy of mourning, they don't make many of them.
> 
> RIP



These^

RIP Tony


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## stethoscope (Mar 14, 2014)

One of the first people I can really remember influencing my politics when I was young, and like others here, enjoyed seeing him speak at protests, or just mingling amongst the crowds chatting.

RIP Tony.


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## Wilf (Mar 14, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Tony Benn inspired me to join the Labour Party.
> 
> Kinnock inspired me to leave.


 I was a member from 1979 to about 87, so that was about it for me too.  The start of that period and attempts to democratise the party/make it explicitly socialist were heady days for me - I was pretty much a Bennite.  My politics have shifted significantly since then, but he was certainly an inspiring figure.  RIP.


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## Wilf (Mar 14, 2014)

stethoscope said:


> One of the first people I can really remember influencing my politics when I was young, and like others here, enjoyed seeing him speak at protests, or just mingling amongst the crowds chatting.
> 
> RIP Tony.


 Whilst he was always a professional politician, that did impress me at the time - the fact that he would walk onto a stage from the audience side, the floor of the hall, rather than backstage.


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## Libertad (Mar 14, 2014)

A life well lived. RIP Tony.


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## tony.c (Mar 14, 2014)

Heard him speak a few times on different subjects, and always well informed on the topic, and an entertaining speaker. I spoke from the floor during a meeting in Westminster to commemorate the Pentonville 5 Dockers strike. I passed Tony Benn about a year later at a protest outside the Tory Conference in Blackpool (during previous Tory Government) and he remembered me and said hello.
A life well lived. RIP Tony Benn.


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## Nylock (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP Tony


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## campanula (Mar 14, 2014)

Belushi said:


> RIP Tony.
> 
> I met him once on a demo, he stopped and talked to us for ages (a group of children) about why we were there and why it was important.



I dragged a reluctant 15 year old son to a Marxism Today conference back in 1991 where TB was speaking (everywhere) on the programme. TB came and sat in one of the schoolkids lectures and engaged my chippy, bored and snotty teenage son in a long, passionate and reasoned debate. My lad came out quite energised (but angrier) with a renewed committment to social justice which has stood him in good stead ever since. Thank you, TB, for doing what I failed to manage - politicising a teenager (and later buying him a bag of crisps).


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## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 14, 2014)

Benn was the best PM we never had. He left Parliament in 2001 saying he wanted to spend more time doing politics. It was a good joke then but he meant it, he never stopped fighting for justice at home and abroad. Condolences to his family.


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 14, 2014)




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## Sprocket. (Mar 14, 2014)

Yet another beacon extinguished.
Another voice of reason and fairness gone,
Remember the fight continues.
Tony Benn, thank you. 
RIP.


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## Idris2002 (Mar 14, 2014)

campanula said:


> I dragged a reluctant 15 year old son to a Marxism Today conference back in 1991 where TB was speaking (everywhere) on the programme. TB came and sat in one of the schoolkids lectures and engaged my chippy, bored and snotty teenage son in a long, passionate and reasoned debate. My lad came out quite energised (but angrier) with a renewed committment to social justice which has stood him in good stead ever since. Thank you, TB, for doing what I failed to manage - politicising a teenager (and later buying him a bag of crisps).



Best post on this thread?


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## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

I knew he had friends across the 'political spectrum', but I was still surprised to read that he was mates with Enoch Powell.


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## Obnoxiousness (Mar 14, 2014)

Loved him to bits.  RIP.


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## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP Tony, heard him speak many times

btw, Michael White stuck the boot in on the Today Programme earlier, Dianne Abbot was clearly taken aback.


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## belboid (Mar 14, 2014)

Corax said:


> I knew he had friends across the 'political spectrum', but I was still surprised to read that he was mates with Enoch Powell.


Powell supported Benn in renouncing his peerage, and then they campaigned together (kinda) for a No vote in the EEC referendum


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## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 14, 2014)

Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, said: "In the final decade of an extraordinary political life, Tony Benn was a great friend of Liberty and human rights. He spoke to packed audiences up and down the country against internment and identity cards and for values of internationalism and humanity. And he often shared the stage with speakers of different political stripes with considerable generosity. I shall never forget his many kindnesses to me, including when he ripped up a prepared speech he was about to deliver, in order to make my own nervous and novice remarks sound slightly less unplanned. In an age of spin, he was solid, a signpost and not a weathervane."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/14/tony-benn-dies-aged-88-labour-politiican


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## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

A truly inspirational legend of a man who followed his political convictions with energy, honesty and intelligence. RIP Tony.


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## agricola (Mar 14, 2014)

treelover said:


> btw, Michael White stuck the boot in on the Today Programme earlier, Dianne Abbot was clearly taken aback.



He did that on BBC News just now as well


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## Roadkill (Mar 14, 2014)

I've just remembered some public meeting or other I went to in London about ten years ago, with Tony Benn as lead speaker.  He sat there with his pint of tea, puffing on his pipe right below the big 'no smoking' notice, as the chair mouthed a few platitudes.  Then he stood up and said in ringing tones, 'The problems that face us all now are difficult, complex and fundamental, and yet the political discourse in this country is shallow, personalised and abusive.'  I couldn't have agreed more, and he went on to talk more good sense in 45 minutes than most people manage in years.  Afterwards he was outside, chatting to people regardless of who they were and giving every impression of being genuinely interested.  A great speaker and a fundamentally decent man, and I'm genuinely sad at his passing.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 14, 2014)

He was a lovely man.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 14, 2014)

At a rally in Hyde Park, during a protest organised by the TUC, called The March for the Alternative in London in 2011.


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## Andrew Hertford (Mar 14, 2014)

I saw Benn speak on numerous occasions at rallies and meetings in the late 70s and early 80s. He spoke from his heart _and_ what he said made perfect sense. He inspired youngsters like me to become socialists and I never looked back. 

Must look for my old copy of 'Arguments for Socialism'!

RIP Tony. An honest and decent man.


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## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

I love this story: 









> How Tony Benn erected a secret plaque in a Westminster broom cupboard
> On a special edition of the long-running BBC One programme Songs of Praise in 1999, the Labour MP disclosed that he had secretly placed a plaque dedicated to a suffragette in a broom cupboard in the House of Commons at Westminster.
> 
> Emily Davison had hidden in a broom cupboard in Westminster during the 1911 census, so that when she was asked for her address that day, she was able to say that it was the House of Commons.
> ...


http://www.thejournal.ie/tony-benn-plaque-emily-davison-1361721-Mar2014/


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## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

editor said:


> A truly inspirational legend of a man who follows his political convictions with energy, honesty and intelligence. RIP Tony.



ffs, reign it in a bit Ed, " A truly inspirational legend of a man "... he was a good egg /had a good heart, led a comfortable life,  didnt achieve much in terms of helping bring about the change he undoubtedly wanted to see ( in one form or another) , but then who has , whilst sat in Parliament ? He quietly acknowledged the futility of much of his political career when he left the commons and said he was off to spend 'more time with politics'

He tried a lot harder, and for a lot longer, than I ever have, but that doesnt make him a bloody 'inspirational legend.'


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> ffs, reign it in a bit Ed,'


That's my opinion. How fucking dare you tell me to 'reign it it' just because it doesn't match whatever your opinion is.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> ffs, reign it in a bit Ed, " A truly inspirational legend of a man "... he was a good egg /had a good heart, led a comfortable life,  didnt achieve much in terms of helping bring about the change he undoubtedly wanted to see ( in one form or another) , but then who has , whilst sat in Parliament ? He quietly acknowledged the futility of much of his political career when he left the commons and said he was off to spend 'more time with politics'
> 
> He tried a lot harder, and for a lot longer, than I ever have, but that doesnt make him a bloody 'inspirational legend.'



Now who's 'trying to decide what people post on this thread', as you put it earlier?

More than any other adjective, 'inspirational' seems to have been proven by many of the comments here and across all other media by people who put their politicisation squarely down to Benn's influence on them.


----------



## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

Well it appears he inspired a lot of people, which makes him inspirational.

Eta cantsin


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> rip tb. but weeks like this give me hope that dc, ids, tm and wh cld all go in one week



Well Thatch's funeral was one massive missed opportunity to make that so.  But hopefully having to publicly eulogise Bob Crow and Tony Benn in such quick succession will hasten heart failure in at least one of them.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 14, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> Now who's 'trying to decide what people post on this thread', as you put it earlier?
> 
> More than any other adjective, 'inspirational' seems to have been proven by many of the comments here and across all other media by people who put their politicisation squarely down to Benn's influence on them.


Back in the 80s, when I was a teenager living in a small town surrounded by mostly either apolitical or positivley reactionary people, Benn's appearances on TV were a very valuable window onto something else. He made sense to me right away in a way that almost nobody else on TV did.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 14, 2014)

A good egg.  RIP.


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 14, 2014)

> Farewell, Tony Benn! I had the pleasure of meeting the great man on a freezing cold night in Truro 6 or 7 yrs ago after he appeared on Question Time. Can't remember much about the show, itself, other than something had happened in Iraq and unisex piss block Melanie Phillips said something typically sympathetic about the plight of her fellow man in response. Anyway, afterwards, waiting around on the platform station I got talking to another guy who'd been in the audience. Tony Benn and a couple of people involved in the show were also there, which seemed hilarious. To our surprise, the producer came over and started talking to us and then Mr. Benn also ambled over. He was a seriously lovely man. Lovelier than anyone YOU (yh, u) know or will ever meet. Lovelier than yr grandad on yr mum's side. He was worth 11 of you (yh, u). Yr grandad sucked.



From a mate on Facebook.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

editor said:


> That's my opinion. How fucking dare you tell me to 'reign it it' just because it doesn't match whatever your opinion is.



keep your hair on, "reign it in a bit Ed  " is hardly "how fucking dare you" material is it ?

All this stuff is just a continuation of the 'national treasure' process that eventually helped defang TB of any kind of political weight, but if it makes you happy, do it... he would hopefully have been sensible enough to laugh  at the idea of being a  "legend .".


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> keep your hair on, "reign it in a bit Ed  " is hardly "how fucking dare you" material is it ?
> 
> All this stuff is just a continuation of the 'national treasure' process that eventually helped defang TB of any kind of political weight, if it makes you happy, do it, he would hopefully have been sensible enough to laugh  at the idea of being a  "legend .".


Stop projecting your bullshit on me. Thanks.


----------



## agricola (Mar 14, 2014)

Joe Haines on BBC News just now, followed by Alistair Campbell.  The boot put in, and then wiggled about a bit.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> keep your hair on, "reign it in a bit Ed  " is hardly "how fucking dare you" material is it ?
> 
> All this stuff is just a continuation of the 'national treasure' process that eventually helped defang TB of any kind of political weight, if it makes you happy, do it, he would hopefully have been sensible enough to laugh  at the idea of being a  "legend .".


Nah, that's totally wrong, I think. 

I don't think this is quite the time or place yet to assess his political career, but he certainly wasn't defanged by some kind of national treasurisation. While he still carried political weight - back in the early 80s - he was seriously detested by a lot of people, not least in the Labour party. He lost that particular battle over the direction of the party - that's what defanged him.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

editor said:


> Stop projecting your bullshit on me. Thanks.


 
no idea what that means, was quoting you/responding to you


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 14, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Back in the 80s, when I was a teenager living in a small town surrounded by mostly either apolitical or positivley reactionary people, Benn's appearances on TV were a very valuable window onto something else. He made sense to me right away in a way that almost nobody else on TV did.




Hah - I've just posted the same thing almost word for word on facebook. When i was growing up in the 80s he was protrayed as this evil bogeyman - yet he often seemed to be the only person making any sense to me. 

RIP Wedgie. You almost feel sorry for st peter having to deal with both him and bob crowe  at the same time.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 14, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Best post on this thread?


 Yeah, but what flavour of crisps?


----------



## Libertad (Mar 14, 2014)

> "I try to operate on two unconnected levels. One on the practical level of action in which I am extremely cautious and conservative. The second is the realm of ideas where I try to be very free."


 Tony Benn, self aware and honest, hard to fault him on that.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Mar 14, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Back in the 80s, when I was a teenager living in a small town surrounded by mostly either apolitical or positivley reactionary people, Benn's appearances on TV were a very valuable window onto something else. He made sense to me right away in a way that almost nobody else on TV did.



he was a _truly inspirational legend of a man_


----------



## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Nah, that's totally wrong, I think.
> 
> I don't think this is quite the time or place yet to assess his political career, but he certainly wasn't defanged by some kind of national treasurisation. While he still carried political weight - back in the early 80s - he was seriously detested by a lot of people, not least in the Labour party. He lost that particular battle over the direction of the party - that's what defanged him.



pretty reasonable assessment, maybe "national treasurisation" was more the end part of the defanging process - with the inevitable posthumous 'inspirational legend' gubbins the final chapter.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> pretty reasonable assessment, maybe "national treasurisation" was more the end part of the defanging process - with the inevitable posthumous 'inspirational legend' gubbins the final chapter.


As far as I can see, it's only you banging on and on and on about this 'national treasure' stuff here.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

editor said:


> As far as I can see, it's only you banging on and on and on about this 'national treasure' stuff here.



"inspirational legend " - lolz


----------



## dylans (Mar 14, 2014)

The end of an era and a very sad day. 

 We all  expected this news some time this year but its no less sad because of it.

 Farewell to a good man, a fighter for justice and a man who lived his life lived with integrity and honesty. 

RIP Tony Benn.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> "inspirational legend " - lolz


Imagine! Someone holding a different opinion to you.


----------



## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)

Who have we got left, Galloway, Owen? there were some impressive people involved in RTS, etc, mostly women, but they don't seem to have become prominent.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Mar 14, 2014)

treelover said:


> Who have we got left, Galloway, Owen? there were some impressive people involved in RTS, etc, mostly women, but they don't seem to have become prominent.



who have _you_ got left.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2014)

dylans said:


> The end of an era and a very sad day.
> 
> We all  expected this news some time this year but its no less sad because of it.
> 
> ...


 
Nice to see you back Dylans


----------



## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)

Apart from Downward, no reference to the fact he was one of the 'few' as a Spitfire pilot.


----------



## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)

Posted on Left Unity...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 14, 2014)

I'm not going to declare that Tony Benn was a great man.  People should be judged by their deeds, and on any assessment, I strongly suspect that his deeds speak loudly.
I don't mean his politicking and actions as an MP or a minister, I mean his political activities outside of Parliament - his promotion of a form of politics utterly eschewed by most of his party - a democratic socialism that attempted to be fully-democratic and socialist insofar as the two went together, rather than merely paying lip-service to them, as many of those who entered Parliament in the '80s did.  He touched lives and, more importantly in my opinion, he sparked political questions in people *and* tried to answer those questions.  He was a reformist and a Parliamentarian, but he was also someone whose political vision never ceased to incorporate his concern for people and their betterment.

He'll be missed.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 14, 2014)

An articulate, genuine politician. So few of them about. I had the pleasure of seeing TB speak on several of the anti-war demos a decade ago and he was inspirational. I actually felt quite tearful when I heard the news this morning.


----------



## Epona (Mar 14, 2014)

Roadkill said:


> I've just remembered some public meeting or other I went to in London about ten years ago, with Tony Benn as lead speaker.  He sat there with his pint of tea, puffing on his pipe right below the big 'no smoking' notice, as the chair mouthed a few platitudes.  Then he stood up and said in ringing tones, 'The problems that face us all now are difficult, complex and fundamental, and yet the political discourse in this country is shallow, personalised and abusive.'  I couldn't have agreed more, and he went on to talk more good sense in 45 minutes than most people manage in years.  Afterwards he was outside, chatting to people regardless of who they were and giving every impression of being genuinely interested.  A great speaker and a fundamentally decent man, and I'm genuinely sad at his passing.



Actually what I will remember about him most as an individual (rather than someone who was addressing a political or union meeting) was his steadfast refusal to give up his pipe, no matter where he was.  He seemed to be pretty much of the opinion that if anyone wanted him to stop puffing on it they would have to physically drag him out of the building


----------



## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)




----------



## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)

> whitehorsehill
> 14 March 2014 10:00am
> Recommend
> *11*
> ...



From CIF


----------



## dylans (Mar 14, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Nice to see you back Dylans



Just popped in to pay my respects froggy. 

Has anyone posted this yet?


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> "inspirational legend " - lolz



Why don't you take your sarky text speak and your sneering tone off to a thread that isn't about expressing respect for someone who died just hours ago?

K thnx bai.


----------



## sojourner (Mar 14, 2014)

Gutted I never got to meet him. He was meant to come to the Wigan Diggers festival last year and speak, and he was the very first person to receive the Wigan Diggers award, but he was just too ill to come along on the day  RIP


----------



## sojourner (Mar 14, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> Why don't you take your sarky text speak and your sneering tone off to a thread that isn't about expressing respect for someone who died just hours ago?
> 
> K thnx bai.


This times a fucking million


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 14, 2014)

treelover said:


> Apart from Downward, no reference to the fact he was one of the 'few' as a Spitfire pilot.



Go to about 3:53 in this clip, and Tony talks about how his wartime experiences informed his reaction to the formation of the UN and the Bush/Blair war on Iraq:


----------



## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

dylans said:


> Just popped in to pay my respects froggy.
> 
> Has anyone posted this yet?




jeez, he was flippin good when he got stuck in , no doubt about that...


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> jeez, he was flippin good when he got stuck in , no doubt about that...



That's more fucking like it.  

Ok, maybe you can stay


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 14, 2014)

dylans said:


> The end of an era and a very sad day.
> 
> We all  expected this news some time this year but its no less sad because of it.
> 
> ...


Hello dylans.  Good to see you and hope you and the nipper are well.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 14, 2014)

dylans said:


> Just popped in to pay my respects froggy.
> 
> Has anyone posted this yet?



As was often the case, he was just straightforwardly right.

Reminds me of the time on Question Time when he read out a list of all the countries the USA has bombed since the end of WW2 - again, the moderator tried to stop him, but failed. 

Fuck, he'll be missed.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Mar 14, 2014)

Incredibly sad news, although I'm sure we were all expecting it. 

It's been a fucking shit week this, I've had bad news in my personal life and then Bob Crow and Tony Benn die in the same fucking week to top it off. 

We need new people to step up and fill the gap left, no excuses.


----------



## Manter (Mar 14, 2014)

newbie said:


> ..._I met him_.... is already becoming a theme.  So did I, a few times on protests and that, he came over as a lovely bloke, even back when he was younger and being seriously demonised you couldn't help but notice the twinkle and the charm. But my point is that he was out there meeting and supporting people in struggle, doing what he could, all the time. His commitment puts the rest of us to shame, obviously, but also sets him apart from all but a very, very, very few politicians.
> 
> He'll be missed not only for what he said, but also because of who he was.


My Facebook is full of people saying 'I met him'- a diverse and and at times unlikely bunch too. And they all say he was intelligent, passionate and charming, even where they don't share his views. He was tireless in getting out, talking to people and listening to people. A real loss


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> jeez, he was flippin good when he got stuck in , no doubt about that...


Inspirational, even.


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 14, 2014)

A truly good man. RIP.


----------



## Manter (Mar 14, 2014)

treelover said:


> Apart from Downward, no reference to the fact he was one of the 'few' as a Spitfire pilot.


I didn't 't even know he was!


----------



## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

editor said:


> Inspirational, even.



(it was the 'legend' bit i was questioning/seeking to undermine in the name of anti-deification)


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> (it was the 'legend' bit i was questioning/seeking to undermine in the name of anti-deification)


I think you need to look up the popular meaning of the word 'legend.' Or, even better, just STFU on this thread.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

Always worth a repost:


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 14, 2014)

Very very sad, despite his good innings.

So tireless and so simple in his message.

Rip Comrade <3


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> (it was the 'legend' bit i was questioning/seeking to undermine in the name of anti-deification)


Give it a rest.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

Ten great quotes (from the New Statesman):



> 1. "After the war people said, 'If you can plan for war, why can't you plan for peace?' When I was 17, I had a letter from the government saying, 'Dear Mr. Benn, will you turn up when you're 17 1/2? We'll give you free food, free clothes, free training, free accommodation, and two shillings, ten pence a day to just kill Germans.' People said, well, if you can have full employment to kill people, why in God's name couldn't you have full employment and good schools, good hospitals, good houses?"
> 
> _To a PBS documentary in 2000._
> 
> ...


----------



## tommers (Mar 14, 2014)

Just watching videos of him on YouTube.   He was beautiful.  Didn't take any shit.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2014)

A photographer friend of mine wrote this about him:





> My favourite picture of Tony Benn. Taken just a couple of years ago, he stopped on the steps of the Olympic Park to smoke his pipe after giving an inspiring speech to protesting electricians. Not many former MPs would have traveled alone on public transport at the age of 86 to support of group of victimised workers. He also refused the offer of a taxi home. He was a lovely bloke always modest and polite. He made time for everyone and the world is poorer place without him.


[Pic: Guy Smallman]


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Mar 14, 2014)

The world is indeed a poorer place...


----------



## cuppa tee (Mar 14, 2014)

r.i.p


----------



## panpete (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP Tony Benn


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 14, 2014)

The good old days.


----------



## felixthecat (Mar 14, 2014)

Ah Tony 

RIP.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 14, 2014)

Nice tribute on the efestivals news page, largely about Tony Benn's annual Glastonbury appearances but also more generally a very positive write-up.

(It was 5co77ie who wrote it. Fittingly because as well as being festival fanatics, him and Mrs 5co77ie are very strong Trade Union activists  )


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2014)

editor said:


> Tony Benn said:
> 
> 
> 
> > It's the same each time with progress. First they ignore you, then they say you're mad, then dangerous, then there's a pause and then you can't find anyone who disagrees with you.



I doubt that famous progressive Tony Blair ever noticed that opinions of him went in exactly the opposite direction to this.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 14, 2014)

treelover said:


> Posted on Left Unity...



I've seen some lovely photographs of Tony Benn today, that's a gorgeous one you posted up there, thank you. Lovely smiles, the both of them.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 14, 2014)

Here he is speaking at Glastonbury (2008). Not very good quality, this footage, but as you can tell he always got a great reception there ...


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 14, 2014)

Thanks to wiskey and beesonthewhatnow  (over on Facebook) for sharing that picture from the UK Uncut site.


----------



## xenon (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 14, 2014)

I went into work this morning and said that Tony Benn had died. The three 20somethings within earshot said 'Who's he?'. I felt very sad.

A great man, a great loss.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> congrats on your promotion to 'thread subject mod', and your establishment of this new rule governing the reporting of others views.
> 
> plse come back later and I'll have come up with something nice about TB
> 
> You utter dweeb.



Troll rating: 0/10.  Please see me after class for multiple detentions and and a set essay.

As for me being a "thread subject mod"?  Ahem.  If I had any asperations to being a mod (which I'll confirm to you now I certainly don't), then I would....apply to editor to be a mod.

More to come.....


----------



## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> I went into work this morning and said that Tony Benn had died. The three 20somethings within earshot said 'Who's he?'. I felt very sad.
> 
> A great man, a great loss.


The only mention of him where I work was in relation to the 'celebrity death pool'


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> honestly, the utter shit flying around twitter and the like in relation to TB, and now we have fuckwits on here trying to decide what people post on this thread, its embarassing - TB was a funny old kind of socialist, and people will claim all sorts in his name, but i think we can all be pretty sure he wouldnt have expected anyone to tip toe about after his death muttering platitudes in the name of some sort formalised, meaningless 'respect'.He was better than that.



I do believe this is aimed at my good self.  Look, my good man, you came on here posting a comment made by _someone else on Twitter_, and I simply asked you to chip in with your own views - which of course you now have done, and which, for the record, I have liked.  And what you say here about Tony Benn is actually rather spot-on too.  So there you go.

PS.  Just to let you know - I was first called a "fucking cunt" at primary school as a 9-year old.  if you think I'm going to burst into tears and run to the mods just because you throw "fuckwit" and so on in my general direction, then think again. Maybe, just maybe, you should reconsider any future words and actions towards me.  

Anyway.  Enough.  Time for a cup of tea and a cigarette (Benn would have approved of the former but not the latter, of course).


----------



## tommers (Mar 14, 2014)

Yes.  Enough.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 14, 2014)

Corax said:


> The only mention of him where I work was in relation to the 'celebrity death pool'



I didn't agree with him on many subjects, he was however, a great and honest man. One of a fast dying breed in the Labour party, a socialist.


----------



## Ole (Mar 14, 2014)




----------



## MellySingsDoom (Mar 14, 2014)

tommers said:


> Yes.  Enough.



Thank you.  I was hoping  - seriously - that we could all talk about Benn's passing and legacy.  Having to talk to cantsin about "certain issues" gives me absolutely no pleasure at all.  Really.

RIP Tony Benn xx


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2014)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Thank you.  I was hoping  - seriously - that we could all talk about Benn's passing and legacy.  Having to talk to cantsin about "certain issues" gives me absolutely no pleasure at all.  Really.
> 
> RIP Tony Benn xx


more in disappointment than anger


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 14, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> I went into work this morning and said that Tony Benn had died. The three 20somethings within earshot said 'Who's he?'. I felt very sad.
> 
> A great man, a great loss.



*spits tea over screen*


----------



## bendeus (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP, Tony Benn.

Gutted


----------



## Wilf (Mar 14, 2014)

Not really the day for unpicking his politics, but I saw some comparisons with Michael Foot. Both liberal influenced socialists (and I don't mean that in a knockabut sense), both willing to put a historical perspective on contemporary politics, even if Foot was the more literary.  Whatever reservations I might have  - again, not the day for it - Benn did ultimately support worker's struggles (particularly in his post-Cabinet Minister career). For me, much more than Foot, he also passed the 'person you'd be willing to have a pint brew with' test - even if you wouldn't have got a word in edgeways. 

Pedantry edit: Foot of course drifted in the other direction.


----------



## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> I didn't agree with him on many subjects, he was however, a great and honest man. One of a fast dying breed in the Labour party, a socialist.


Not sure why that was in reply to my post, but yes.


----------



## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)

> Benn saw himself as part of a continuous tradition of indigenous Leftism – a tradition that he traced back through the trade union pioneers, back through the Chartists, back through Wilkes and Paine to the radical movements that emerged from the upheavals of the seventeenth century. He and I shared a fascination with the Levellers. He admired them for their opposition to prelates and princes, for their egalitarianism and for their faith in the common man; *I for their libertarianism*; both of us for their commitment, remarkable in its time, to a universal franchise ...
> It was as a 21-year-old, listening to one of Benn’s orations in Trafalgar Square, that I started to ponder how much can be achieved in politics by a man with no prospect of office. How shrunken his successors seem by comparison.



Daniel Hannan's obit, wonder what demo that was?


----------



## Fedayn (Mar 14, 2014)

Met him a few times, first at a packed meeting during the 1987 General Election in former MP Terry Fields constituency, Benn and Fields on the platform, an outstanding meeting, 400 plus at a meeting in a school.

About 18 months later I was in then MP Dave Nellists kitchen as I was due to babysit his weans, he mentioned about waiting for Tony who was in the loo when out popped Benn, pipe in gub and back to his cup of tea. As a wide eyed 20 year old I was mildly in awe of Benn-I used to babysit for Nellist so he was just a mate-but Benn was 'the Lefts big man' so to speak. It was one of the more interesting cuppa's ie had it has to be said.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 14, 2014)

Sad day.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 14, 2014)

He was a kind and compassionate man whose heart was in the right place. My Pa in law new him from the Aldermaston days and I had the privelege to have met him once or twice. A great and sad loss; hopefuly, he is now reunited with his beloved Caroline.

A very sad day; I shall drink to him tonight.


----------



## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)

> Then, of course, there were the death threats: “We regret that your husband is going to be killed and that you will be a widow, but it is in the public interest,” said a letter sent to his wife from a group calling itself Defenders of Free Enterprise.



posted on CIF


----------



## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

treelover said:


> posted on CIF


I suspect that would have angered him when few things could.


----------



## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)

> I once sent an email to an email address I found on Tony Benn's (seemingly dormant) website. As a disaffected student graduating to poor prospects in 2009 and feeling general despair at the state of the left, I asked him for his views, not really expecting a response. Sometime later I received an email along the lines of 'very sorry for the delay, why don't you give me a call on .... for a chat'. I did, and that 30 minute phone call gave me more hope and inspiration than I could have imagined.
> It was only later I realised he was apologising for a delay due to a period of illness/stroke. A hero of a human being who had time for all.



This is amazing and humbling.


----------



## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

treelover said:


> This is amazing and humbling.


That's... yes, humbling - good choice of words treelover. 

Where's it from?


----------



## treelover (Mar 14, 2014)

like many of my quotes its an anecdote from a reader on Guardian CIF,

we have lost a lot this week.


----------



## SLK (Mar 14, 2014)

Has the letter to his relatives been shared yet? I just saw it on twitter and thought it amazing.


----------



## lincy (Mar 14, 2014)

I saw him speak once during the miners strike truly a great man RIP Tony


----------



## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Thank you.  I was hoping  - seriously - that we could all talk about Benn's passing and legacy.  Having to talk to cantsin about "certain issues" gives me absolutely no pleasure at all.  Really.
> 
> RIP Tony Benn xx



I've got to just ask here ,in the spirit of Glastnost,  how is :

A   questioning a comment from a prominent Nu Lab supporter that Benn was "the essence of socialism"

and

B   questioning the idea that Benn was an "inspirational legend "

not : "talking about Benn's passing and legacy." ?


----------



## belboid (Mar 14, 2014)

It's quite astounding reading some of the facebook etc posts from people all over the world.  So many start with 'when I met him...' - he was one of the few that bothered to give his time to anyone, not just lefties who already (mostly) agreed with him, but to anyone. He'd talk and discuss the issues of the day and actually listen to people, make them think that what they said actually mattered. Even if only to him.  There's hardly any other bastard you can say that about these days.

A couple of people have gone 'why be arsed about this middle of the road methodist minister?' - and, yes, he suffered from a parliamentary cretinism, an inability to break fully from Labour and a woefully naive belief in the UN, but the bugger kept on fighting for over sixty years. And, even in the darkest depths of despair, he managed never to become bitter, cynical and sneery like most of the rest of us have. He engaged with people because he actually believed in them, and respected them, no matter where they came from. Many of us may have 'better' politics than he did, but it'll be a very very rare person who will make half as good an advocate for our cause.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 14, 2014)

belboid said:


> And, even in the darkest depths of despair, he managed never to become bitter, cynical and sneery like most of the rest of us have.



That's the mark of the man, you said it all beautifully. When bitterness and cynicism takes hold of us it eats away at us like rust and it is so easy to give into it, to be consumed by it. That's what they want and they didn't get him.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 14, 2014)

ITV's news coverage just now was a proper hatchet job.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> I've got to just ask here ,in the spirit of Glastnost,  how is :
> 
> A   questioning a comment from a prominent Nu Lab supporter that Benn was "the essence of socialism"
> 
> ...



A very fair question indeed, there!

Yeah, I'd actually, on reflection, pretty much agree w/you about the Blair etc brigade talking about Benn like they had the first idea of socialism actually is (they probably think it's something you order off Amazon for your Kindle).  A bit much, really, isn't it, especially since Benn, in his entirely pleasant, kind and considerate way, had zero time for New/Nu etc Labour.

Well I never - we've agreed!  Funny old world, eh?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 14, 2014)

Manter said:


> My Facebook is full of people saying 'I met him'- a diverse and and at times unlikely bunch too.



Looking at my Facebook, which is just actual friends, I'm feeling a bit left out that I don't have a photo of me with him.


----------



## Geri (Mar 14, 2014)

There is a book of condolence at the Council House in Bristol, if that's of interest/use to anyone on here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2014)

like everyone else in britain i too have met tony benn. it was at the house of commons where there was a meeting on some topic or other back in the mid-90s. he was smoking his pipe while i stuck to cigarettes. on the way out i plastered the toilet with class war stickers.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 14, 2014)

I hadn't realised quite how lucky I was to have been spared an encounter.


----------



## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

Geri said:


> There is a book of condolence at the Council House in Bristol, if that's of interest/use to anyone on here.


_*The*_ council house? 

Bloody hell, no wonder there's a long waiting list


----------



## Fedayn (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I hadn't realised quite how lucky I was to have been spared an encounter.



Not as lucky as Benn was for missing out on such an execrable event.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I hadn't realised quite how lucky I was to have been spared an encounter.



0/5 tbf


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I hadn't realised quite how lucky I was to have been spared an encounter.


your luck doesn't extend to us. many of us rue the day we first bumped into you.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I hadn't realised quite how lucky I was to have been spared an encounter.


 In what way would it have been unfortunate for you to have unexpectedly met Tony Benn? 

Or was your post an attempt at humour?


----------



## elbows (Mar 14, 2014)

belboid said:


> A couple of people have gone 'why be arsed about this middle of the road methodist minister?' - and, yes, he suffered from a parliamentary cretinism, an inability to break fully from Labour and a woefully naive belief in the UN, but the bugger kept on fighting for over sixty years. And, even in the darkest depths of despair, he managed never to become bitter, cynical and sneery like most of the rest of us have. He engaged with people because he actually believed in them, and respected them, no matter where they came from. Many of us may have 'better' politics than he did, but it'll be a very very rare person who will make half as good an advocate for our cause.



Yeah, I am far away from being a christian but I've commented before that there is probably something useful to political struggle to be had from a handful of the concepts expressed in that religion, at least in the hands of certain people. Benn was one, Dennis Potter another. Of course the religious aspect is entirely optional and those formed by very different experiences will find other ways to express the burning desire for justice, peace and fairness.

I  guess I was kind of ready for his death because I read the last volume of his diary over Christmas, and death looms large throughout it despite most of it being from 2007-9. And its been yonks since I pondered that he was getting a bit too deaf to be invited onto Question Time very often anymore.

I only saw him in the flesh once or twice, including the slightly awkward moment during one of his speaking tours where he happened to be days away from visiting Saddam Hussein in a futile attempt to somehow prevent that war, and was fretting about it quite openly. Thats the thing about his cynicism, I think he was quite capable of analysing political situations in a manner that included room for cynical conclusions, but he didn't let the likely reality dampen his spirit to the point of giving up. I'm not suggesting we should constrain our own worldview and radical options with the same limitations that his own beliefs led to, but we surely all have constraints of our own and he is both an example of what to do and what not to do when trying to deal with such contradictions at the same time as maintaining the struggle in a hopefully non-neutered form.

I'm concerned about the passing of his generation. Painting with too broad a stroke I could claim that the subsequent generation neutered themselves  very effectively. And that especially in the limited realm of the talking heads on the tv box, we are rapidly running out of people who don't talk shit or limit themselves to talking about all that is wrong with the world and leaving no room for imagining what a better way might be, and what it would be like.

There isn't a lot going on in that last diary volume to be honest, but one quote I remember from it is along the lines of the BBC being there to crush hope (likely in response to their coverage of a demo/protest). RIP Tony Benn, you have helped me to make my own hopes uncrushable, I just hope I get a chance to make use of them more overtly some day.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Mar 14, 2014)

elbows said:


> Yeah, I am far away from being a christian but I've commented before that there is probably something useful to political struggle to be had from a handful of the concepts expressed in that religion, at least in the hands of certain people. Benn was one, Dennis Potter another. Of course the religious aspect is entirely optional and those formed by very different experiences will find other ways to express the burning desire for justice, peace and fairness.
> 
> I  guess I was kind of ready for his death because I read the last volume of his diary over Christmas, and death looms large throughout it despite most of it being from 2007-9. And its been yonks since I pondered that he was getting a bit too deaf to be invited onto Question Time very often anymore.
> 
> ...



Perfect.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I hadn't realised quite how lucky I was to have been spared an encounter.



Sass and downward dog, both of whom are died in the wool Tories, have managed to show a bit of class. Trust the blairite to act the cunt.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 14, 2014)

SpineyNorman said:


> Sass and downward dog, both of whom are died in the wool Tories, have managed to show a bit of class.



That's because of their natural deference to aristos.


----------



## Corax (Mar 14, 2014)

Fuck me I wish you were a gooner right now


----------



## eatmorecheese (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I hadn't realised quite how lucky I was to have been spared an encounter.



Why are you doing this?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> That's because of their natural deference to aristos.



You're not even good enough at this to make me angry, and I'm notorious for having a short internet fuse. You're clearly just a very very sad man for whom life offers little in the way of pleasure. If the only way you can get a bit of validation is by trolling an RIP thread then your life must be about as shit as it's possible to get so I'm not going to try and stop you attempting to upset people while you desperately try and get something resembling a wank out of your flaccid micro-penis.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 14, 2014)

eatmorecheese said:


> Why are you doing this?



Nil nisi malum.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> Nil nisi malum.





Goodnight.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> Nil nisi malum.



I had to Google that because it was too pompous.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2014)

Fucking hell I thought better of you.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2014)

Regardless of what you thought of Tony Benn's politics he helped to politicize a generation of young people and was well loved.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Mar 14, 2014)

He's just being a dick and deliberately trying to antagonise people.


----------



## shagnasty (Mar 14, 2014)

A great orator and democrate ,will be missed R.I.P Tony


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2014)

belboid said:


> It's quite astounding reading some of the facebook etc posts from people all over the world.  So many start with 'when I met him...' - he was one of the few that bothered to give his time to anyone, not just lefties who already (mostly) agreed with him, but to anyone. He'd talk and discuss the issues of the day and actually listen to people, make them think that what they said actually mattered. Even if only to him.  There's hardly any other bastard you can say that about these days.



This is the thing that's struck me most about today.  For people who only get to do what they do if we let them, there are so few politicians who aren't terrified of really engaging with the rest of us. 

Most of them, even the ones you like and agree with, decide on their Opinion on a subject then erect impenetrable fortifications around it.  As if admitting to doubt, continually questioning one's beliefs and being prepared to consider all other perspectives were signs of weakness and failure instead of what they really are: a mark of confidence and integrity.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Mar 14, 2014)

Even among my under 30 friends he was, by quite some distance, the most popular mp\former mp. It says a lot positive about him is he could take his message and have it heard beyond the political nerd types, but also a damning indictment that only a handful of modern politicians (Boris is one of those) who can break out of the bubble and engage people who dont live and breath politics.


----------



## ibilly99 (Mar 14, 2014)

3 years ago at the Glastonbury speaker's tent some know it all young left wing firebrand was imploring him to denounce Tony Blair as a war criminal. He brushed her away with his usual riposte it was about the isshoos not the personalities and then went onto to illustrate it with an anecdote of how we fed the Germans with bread we barely had in the aftermath of WW2 when they were starving and we knew what many of them had done in the name of Nazism but  that only way forward for humanity was to put the past and recriminations behind us. Yes he said it is easy to hate and pickle our opinions in that hate but it is much better to look for the good that is in most of us and build on that and move forward. As he said that on his frail features he had tears and a sadness in his eyes almost if he knew he hadn't much time left but there was still so much to do. The three greatest Englishmen of my generation IMHO are Donald Soper, Tony Benn and Michael Eavis and sadly now only Michael remains. 

I'll never see a better all round good man than Tony B in my lifetime and as the cliche says the world is a poorer place today without him in it. May he RIP and continue to inspire us.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> I hadn't realised quite how lucky I was to have been spared an encounter.



There's something I've just realised about you.  Guess.


----------



## killer b (Mar 14, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Regardless of what you thought of Tony Benn's politics he helped to politicize a generation of young people and was well loved.


could say that about thatcher tbf. 

I liked Benn. He had the cheerful self confidence and easy way with people that's common with those born into money, but he chose to fight for us instead of them. Although, when I (of course) met him, I questioned him on how the Labour party could be a force for the working class again and his reply was so unconvincing as to be totally unmemorable.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 14, 2014)

Tony Benn created the British National Oil Corporation after North Sea Oil was discovered.

We would have had a huge social fund like Norway does. Education, social security, pensions, health, all covered for the foreseeable future.

Instead, dirty money poured in to pay to get Thatcher elected using electoral techniques first developed for fixing elections in post-war Italy and Greece and subsequently refined in the US, and the first thing she and that smarmy cunt Nigel Lawson did was close the British National Oil Corporation saying 'our oil policy is that we have no oil policy' ...

Pissed away to make rich wankers very slightly richer and to mitigate the immediate consequences of the destruction of the trade union movement and UK industry ...

http://fc95d419f4478b3b6e5f-3f71d0f...kcdn.com/6149B7F5E8D343E69CD2471EDFCBE1B9.pdf

RIP Tony Benn

RIP The UK as a civilised fucking country.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 14, 2014)

RIP. 

He was one of the first political figures who really inspired me, these days I can't not criticise his continued support of Labour, but he was still someone who I admired.

Oh and fuck that moron Michael White, verminous scum shit.


----------



## Manter (Mar 14, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> This is the thing that's struck me most about today.  For people who only get to do what they do if we let them, there are so few politicians who aren't terrified of really engaging with the rest of us.
> 
> Most of them, even the ones you like and agree with, decide on their Opinion on a subject then erect impenetrable fortifications around it.  As if admitting to doubt, continually questioning one's beliefs and being prepared to consider all other perspectives were signs of weakness and failure instead of what they really are: a mark of confidence and integrity.


It's not just that, IMO, (though I really like and agree with your post)- it's that he genuinely liked and was interested in people. All people. Even those he disagreed with. So many politicians seem to hate or despise us- or many of us, or caricatures of us.


----------



## Manter (Mar 14, 2014)

redsquirrel said:


> RIP.
> 
> He was one of the first political figures who really inspired me, these days I can't not criticise his continued support of Labour, but he was still someone who I admired.
> 
> Oh and fuck that moron Michael White, verminous scum shit.


I didn't hear what White said through my son's apocalyptic screaming. What did he say?


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 14, 2014)

Not sure I haven't listened to the interview yet I just saw others mention him and I know his long term dislike of Benn, at Xmas he came our with a load of stupid bile about Benn when reviewing his latest book. And White is just a cunt in general.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 14, 2014)

Good piece by Gary Younge in The Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/14/tony-benn-socialism-epitaph


----------



## Delroy Booth (Mar 14, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Tony Benn created the British National Oil Corporation after North Sea Oil was discovered.
> 
> We would have had a huge social fund like Norway does. Education, social security, pensions, health, all covered for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...



Yes that's an absolute scandal. And what's more is people know it, they know the nationally owned resources in this country were stolen from them, and yet nothing's been done.

The exact same can be said for coal. Even considering how dangerous mining was as a job, and the damage coal does to the environment, it's a disgrace how the coal mining industry was dismantled. It's the most abundant natural resource Britain has, and to this day we have a demand and a need for coal which we meet by importing it, which is just madness. Only in the the mind of the worst Tory ideologue is shipping coal from Russia, Australia, Poland or wherever more "efficient" that digging it up out of the ground right next to where it'll be burnt. There may come a time when this type of globalisation isn't possible any more and we'll regret not making better use of that resource, even as just a backup. Privatization has failed the mining industry. The current state of UKcoal is a joke - the only reason it hasn't been nationalised is because it would be too embarassing to do it the year Thatcher died.

This is what's bad about the eulogies and obituaries, they're all along the lines of "well he might've been a nutjob but he was principled, can't knock his integrity etc" which is totally the wrong way to look at it. The reason he was villified at the time was because he was _right_ and they knew he was right. The society he warned us about has come to pass. We live in the aftermath of it. I think that's why there's such a coherent message on both sides of the spectrum because the very thought that he might've been right all along about privatization, thatcher, the wars and so on must not be discussed. Despite that we have very strong polling evidence now that the majority of these "loony left" positions are actually popular, things such as re-nationalisation or being against the wars have clear majorities of the public in agreement. You should take solace from this, that the obituaries of someone like Benn have to be framed extremely carefully because the public discussion of the ideas themselves is just dynamite.

But what of his integrity? His principle? No he was a politician, an extremely successful and pragmatic one at that, who was clearly hardworking, interested and dedicated to his job but also a ruthless operator and careerist with it. He was born into privilege and into a well established Labour familly. He voted for Hugh Gaitskell over Nye Bevan in 1955 and was nothing more than a technocrat and a Labour corporatist until his time in the cabinet. He moved to the left he claimed because of his experiences in government, which I believe, but that was only part of the story. The other thing is that the Labour left had been growing from the grassroots up through the 70's and 80's, and there was growing sense that the Labourism and the forward march of Labour was coming to an end. Class antagonisms were erupting throughout the 70's that couldn't be resolved within this Bernstein-ish social democratic frame. Benn was responding to this body of opinion and to the crisis of Labour as a wily and pragmatic politician would, one looking for high office, positioning himself with a growing and powerful bloc within the party that he felt could propel him to a position of power. His decision to stay in the 1979 cabinet was portrayed as a move of principle, but it was actually a very self-interested manouver with dubious ethics.

The paradox for Benn is he could see this kind Labourism was coming to an end, and that to get out of it would mean either redefining Labourism and the party totally. His conclusion was right in so far as the Labour party couldn't tame capitalism any more and it had to fight for decisive shift to socialism or surrender, but I don't think he was personally prepared to follow that through to it's logical conclusion because he was a very loyal Labour person and that aim simply can't be achieved within Parliamentary socialism. Leo Panitch has written two interesting things about him, firstly which is that unlike the Bevanites or other labour left figures in the party's history he was the one who had a set of ideas that promised to transcend Labourism, yet could never realise that promise because of his loyalty to the party. And that perhaps his most valuable contribution to working-class politics in Britian is that of an educator, someone who tried to teach us about about power and history and this rich tradition of radicalism not just pimp himself for votes (although he did that very well too in his day). This can't be under-estimated. The tireless campaigning and extra-parliamentary stuff he did was really important and won him the respect of a whole younger generation of left-inclined people who felt let down by Blair. He introduced me to the history of the british working class movement, and that was an immense consolation to know that the way I thought and what I believed to part of a rich history of radical dissent born out of a long history built on the experiences of everyday people. Young people consistenely cited him as one of their favourite politicians, and not because of his "integrity" but because the sort of issues they were living through, the wars, education cuts, unemployment and so on were the issues he'd warned us about and therefore he's just about the only one with a convincing account of why we are in the shit state we are right now. Again it's not about his personality but about his politics.

So less about him a person because he wasn't a god he was a very sincere and intelligent Labour politician who had a go at doing the right thing. He's going to be sorely missed though, and it's important we do have people like Benn and Crow to fly the banner for all their faults. The Benn Diaries are the most important political diaries since Pepys and will be an invaluable source for historians for centuries.

sorry didn't mean to write an obituary just got carried away


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 14, 2014)

Fucking spot on though.

Nice one ...


----------



## Greebo (Mar 14, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Looking at my Facebook, which is just actual friends, I'm feeling a bit left out that I don't have a photo of me with him.


Hey, I never met him either.


----------



## ibilly99 (Mar 14, 2014)

For those with time on their hands a classic C4 After Dark on the secret services with Tony Benn on the marathon and legendary TV programme. 
_
Tony Benn wrote in his diary, later published as The End of an Era: "Saturday 13 May - In the evening I went to take part in this live television programme After Dark with John Underwood in the chair. It was an open-ended discussion which started at about midnight and went on till the early hours. The other participants were the historian Lord Dacre, Eddie Chapman, who had been a double agent during the war, Anthony Cavendish, who is a former MI6 and MI5 officer, Miles Copeland (an ex-CIA man), James Rusbridger, who has worked with MI5 at one stage, and Adela Gooch, a defence journalist from the Daily Telegraph. Every one of them made admissions or came out with most helpful information. I was terribly pleased with it._


----------



## Knotted (Mar 14, 2014)

Good god. Dennis Healey on Newsnight is being truly pathetic. He wanted to be working class? Huh?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 14, 2014)

Might have been quoted already, but cant find it. 



> *Benn on the slave trade: "New Labour wouldn't have abolished it. It would have tried to regulate it under Ofslave."*


 http://inagist.com/all/444463585016946689/


----------



## cantsin (Mar 14, 2014)

Knotted said:


> Good god. Dennis Healey on Newsnight is being truly pathetic. He wanted to be working class? Huh?



unbelievably bad, am surprised they broadcast it tbh  - " his politics softened" - when ?


----------



## elbows (Mar 14, 2014)

cantsin said:


> unbelievably bad, am surprised they broadcast it tbh  - " his politics softened" - when ?



The caricature of him that his opponents projected softened once he was well past getting his hands on the official levers of power.

Unless I'm misremembering the couple of his more recent diaries I've read, at times he openly wrestled with how far to go when criticising labour for the added sake of his son Hilary's party & cabinet career. I suppose this would count as another moderating influence, but I wouldn't suggest it shut him up about some stuff he felt as much as many others would silence themselves in the same position.


----------



## miktheword (Mar 14, 2014)

dp

actually , should have been put in cantsins thread


----------



## treelover (Mar 15, 2014)

ROWSON in the GUARDIAN, look at those crocodile tears flow..


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 15, 2014)

Silas Loom said:


> Nil nisi malum.



MD and public school boy. What's not to like.


----------



## Ole (Mar 15, 2014)




----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 15, 2014)

Ole said:


>



Wow.


----------



## editor (Mar 15, 2014)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Wow.


That jacket! My EYES!


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 15, 2014)

Ole said:


>




I'm glad i took 12 mins to watch that because Galloway called it true.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 15, 2014)

editor said:


> That jacket! My EYES!


What is wrong with the jacket?


----------



## revol68 (Mar 15, 2014)

the fawning over him on here is embarrassing, he's reduced from a political figure who shut more mines than Thatcher and was capital's loyal opposition into everyone's favourite granda.

I would expect such shite from articul8 and other Labour hacks but come on.


----------



## Ole (Mar 15, 2014)

revol68 said:


> the fawning over him on here is embarrassing, he's reduced from a political figure who shut more mines than Thatcher and was capital's loyal opposition into everyone's favourite granda.
> 
> I would expect such shite from articul8 and other Labour hacks but come on.



It couldn't possibly be that people disagree with you, then?

What a load of bollocks pal. You're not going to stop people from saying what they think. You're the embarrassment for thinking there's some party line on here that needs toeing.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 15, 2014)

revol68 said:


> the fawning over him on here is embarrassing, he's reduced from a political figure who shut more mines than Thatcher and was capital's loyal opposition into everyone's favourite granda.
> 
> I would expect such shite from articul8 and other Labour hacks but come on.



What he did do unlike you is help to normalise basic ideas of fairness, social justice, equality and human solidarity and get them of there as part of the wider conversation.

It wasn't enough but it was a damn site more than a lot of his peers (pun intended).

At the moment any serious movement for real social change needs people who can do that even if have disagreements

ETA: your role is on the other hand to alienate people and make social change seem strange and slightly unpleasant. And don't try and say it's because of his superior access to the media or whatever, because you would be just as alienating if you had the same level of access


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 15, 2014)

Excuse the short posts am on my iPad on the train...

Tony Benn whatever my political disagreements with him was just as important in his own way as Bob Crow - and any problem with either of them is our problem not there's. 

For any movement for radical social change to be successful it is not enough to organise working class militants effectively to support people in improving their immediate conditions. We also need to have a 'background noise' that influences the national discourse in a favourable direction and whether you like it or not that means people like Benn and Crow and Owen Jones even who are listened to and to some extent respected or even liked by people who do not self identify as political or socialist.

Benn is the tea drinking mans Zizek


----------



## co-op (Mar 15, 2014)

revol68 said:


> the fawning over him on here is embarrassing, he's reduced from a political figure *who shut more mines than Thatcher* and was capital's loyal opposition into everyone's favourite granda.
> 
> .



That has got to be just about the daftest criticism of TB evah. Do you think that there is something intrinsically righteous about coal mines? That in an ideal society we'll all be working in pits? Most of which will no longer have coal in them?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 15, 2014)

elbows said:


> The caricature of him that his opponents projected softened once he was well past getting his hands on the official levers of power.
> 
> Unless I'm misremembering the couple of his more recent diaries I've read, at times he openly wrestled with how far to go when criticising labour for the added sake of his son Hilary's party & cabinet career. I suppose this would count as another moderating influence, but I wouldn't suggest it shut him up about some stuff he felt as much as many others would silence themselves in the same position.


 Yes.

From the obit interviews with current 'Labour' that I've seen across the broadcast media, Benn's last political service was to show us (yet again) what a complete shower of shite they are.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 15, 2014)

Manter said:


> I didn't 't even know he was!



Not a combat pilot sent to rhodesia and south africa  to train  in 1943 by the time he was trained the war was virtually over so never saw combat.
 Not that learning to fly a spitfire isnt exactly a risk free activity no two seaters trainer versions in those days once you'd mastered the basics in a trainer you got handed the keys to a high performance fighter and away you went


----------



## rasputin (Mar 15, 2014)

revol68 said:


> a political figure who shut more mines than Thatcher.



Simply not true. Even looking at the figures on the Tory home page, around 150 pits closed during Thatcher's period in office compared with around 20 in the period from 1975 to 1979 when TB was Energy Secretary.


----------



## DownwardDog (Mar 15, 2014)

likesfish said:


> Not a combat pilot sent to rhodesia and south africa  to train  in 1943 by the time he was trained the war was virtually over so never saw combat.
> Not that learning to fly a spitfire isnt exactly a risk free activity no two seaters trainer versions in those days once you'd mastered the basics in a trainer you got handed the keys to a high performance fighter and away you went



Roald Dahl went from enlisting as an Aircraftman to being in combat as a Pilot Officer in 3 months. I'm not sure why it took TB 3 years to get his wings.


----------



## rasputin (Mar 15, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> Roald Dahl went from enlisting as an Aircraftman to being in combat as a Pilot Officer in 3 months. I'm not sure why it took TB 3 years to get his wings.



Roald Dahl trained in 1940 when there was a desperate shortage of combat pilots.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Mar 15, 2014)

revol68 said:


> the fawning over him on here is embarrassing, he's reduced from a political figure who shut more mines than Thatcher and was capital's loyal opposition into everyone's favourite granda.
> 
> I would expect such shite from articul8 and other Labour hacks but come on.



I checked that and he actually didn't shut more mines when he was energy secretary.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 15, 2014)

Exactly desperate shortage of pilots corners get cut.
Not so desperate military do things properly might have been a mediocre pilot. Also might have been used for other purposes always work to be done or made an instructor etc etc.
 By 1944 trainee pilots were being yanked from training to be sent down the mines or to the infantry possibly it just wasnt worth bring officer officer Benn home or shipping him to fight the japanese


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Mar 15, 2014)

That's one thing that really gets on my wick about the left in this country. When someone who was actually on our side dies, two happen to have gone this week, you can't just remember them for the good things they did that actually helped our side can you? Oh no, it's 'oh he was part of the establishment' even when he renounced his peerage. 'oh he shut down more mines than Thatcher' even though he didn't and as if fucking coal mines are the be all and end all of workers struggle. 

I've seen the same sort of toss dished out for Crow 'oh he funded bankers because the RMT has shares in corporations' yeah? and? We live in a capitalist society what do you expect the RMT to do? Live off fucking kidney beans? You fund bankers every time you buy a fucking t shirt from the high street. Yeah they might've invested in those companies but what did they use the dividends for? Oh that's right, getting his members results, turning up to meetings, strikes and demos of other unions, donations to other causes and so on.  

I mean FFS, none of these people are above criticism of course but why peddle the right's propaganda for them? They have, ya know, complete control of the media they don't need your help. Anyway what are those picking holes and moaning done? Fuck what have I even done for the poor and down trodden? Not a great deal tbh and I doubt many of you have either, far easier to pick holes in things, be a keyboard warrior and moan at pretty much anyone who mentions socialism for not being a twue socialist because they're in the mainstream media.


----------



## Ole (Mar 15, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> That's one thing that really gets on my wick about the left in this country. When someone who was actually on our side dies, two happen to have gone this week, you can't just remember them for the good things they did that actually helped our side can you? Oh no, it's 'oh he was part of the establishment' even when he renounced his peerage. 'oh he shut down more mines than Thatcher' even though he didn't and as if fucking coal mines are the be all and end all of workers struggle.
> 
> I've seen the same sort of toss dished out for Crow 'oh he funded bankers because the RMT has shares in corporations' yeah? and? We live in a capitalist society what do you expect the RMT to do? Live off fucking kidney beans? You fund bankers every time you buy a fucking t shirt from the high street. Yeah they might've invested in those companies but what did they use the dividends for? Oh that's right, getting his members results, turning up to meetings, strikes and demos of other unions, donations to other causes and so on.
> 
> I mean FFS, none of these people are above criticism of course but why peddle the right's propaganda for them? They have, ya know, complete control of the media they don't need your help. Anyway what are those picking holes and moaning done? Fuck what have I even done for the poor and down trodden? Not a great deal tbh and I doubt many of you have either, far easier to pick holes in things, be a keyboard warrior and moan at pretty much anyone who mentions socialism for not being a twue socialist because they're in the mainstream media.


I don't understand it at all. If their criticism is sincere and not self-serving, they must be so disappointed with every human being they ever meet.


----------



## marty21 (Mar 15, 2014)

Reading about Benn this morning and him losing his Bristol seat due to boundary changes,  looks like he was stitched up by the Chief Whip at the time Michael Cocks.As a result Benn lost his seat in 83 and couldn't run for leadership, allowing Kinnock to take control. No way of knowing whether or not he would have beaten Kinnock. But I was glad to read that Cocks got deselected a few years later.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 15, 2014)

revol68 said:


> the fawning over him on here is embarrassing, he's reduced from a political figure who shut more mines than Thatcher and was capital's loyal opposition into everyone's favourite granda.
> 
> I would expect such shite from articul8 and other Labour hacks but come on.


I wouldn't expect this kind of shite from you tbf.







Have a look at coal production in the uk. Ignore the dives downwards, which are largely strikes and look at the long-term trends. Up to the 1970s, most of the reduction was due to demand reducing as we switched to oil. Production was steady in the Labour period of the 1970s, while imports did begin for the first time, but small amounts. But look at the 80s onwards - steady decline while imports become significant for the first time. This is neoliberalism in action - throw domestic producers out of work by sourcing cheaper labour abroad. No matter that long-term that makes you dependent on imports for your energy needs, and you are likely to end up paying far more for those imports - no, short-term returns are what matter, trumping both domestic jobs and long-term energy security (that and breaking the workers at home by destroying those sectors where worker solidarity is strongest). 

You've swallowed _Daily Mail_ propaganda there, revol.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 15, 2014)

marty21 said:


> Reading about Benn this morning and him losing his Bristol seat due to boundary changes,  looks like he was stitched up by the Chief Whip at the time Michael Cocks.As a result Benn lost his seat in 83 and couldn't run for leadership, allowing Kinnock to take control. No way of knowing whether or not he would have beaten Kinnock. But I was glad to read that Cocks got deselected a few years later.


Lord Cocks to you! It had been his seat since 1970 to be fair. I'm not at all sure Benn would have taken Bristol South in 83 either. Cocks was himself stitched up by Primarolo a couple of years later.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 15, 2014)

I'm not getting in to the debate on mines closed all that, but i suspect the claim revol offered came from here. Which is about as un-daily mail as you can get. The key thing to note is that it was produced in jan 1985 and a huge chunk of the closures has yet to take place - indeed they went on and on and on well into the late 90s - so what may have been true early 85 is not true now.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 15, 2014)

Not sure which is more foolish, tbh - relying on DM propaganda or 29-year-old information.

Either way, in crudest terms, the trends that have led to today's situation with a coal-mining industry all but destroyed and the UK a significant coal importer were set in place by Thatcher, not Benn. Callaghan's govt can be blamed for a lot of things, but not this.


----------



## JTG (Mar 15, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Lord Cocks to you! It had been his seat since 1970 to be fair. I'm not at all sure Benn would have taken Bristol South in 83 either. Cocks was himself stitched up by Primarolo a couple of years later.


You got figures for Bristol South in 83? Always thought that it was the lone Labour bastion south of the Severn/Wash line (outside of London) in the 80s - would Benn really have struggled to win it?


----------



## ska invita (Mar 15, 2014)

Ive seen Tony Benn on platforms a few times, but one memory stands out - in the lead up to the big anti-Iraq invasion demo there were meetings called up and down the country. The one nearest me was at the Rivoli Ballroom, a building I'd been past hundreds of times but never had occasion to set foot in




A real step back in time....
Parallel to the ballroom is a bar in the corridor with a selection of back-in-time drinks, like dusty half bottles of courage light ale and the like.
Anyhow, the hall was rammed out and speakers took to the stage, but I only remember Tony Benn, who took his blazer off to reveal a striped shirt, sleeves rolled up, red braces holding his trousers up and pipe in hand. He gave a barnstorming rally call and the whole experience was like being back in the 1930s, with Tony's outift really capping it all off.

Not a particularly profound moment, but one I'll never forget. He was an oldschool orator and completely in his element - addressing the public in a direct way, in a way common to politicians in the earlier half of the last century - complete contrast to the stage managed/tv politics of today, where meeting the public is  to be avoided at all costs. All the testaments of him chatting to people on this thread have really added to my picture of him in that respect.

ETA: I guess thats one thing people like Tony Benn, Bob Crow, George Galloway and even Russell Brand have in common - they can speak in a way that is direct, express their ideas clearly, and on balance not alienate people. Public speaking is still, despite technological changes, such a key skill in politics.


----------



## rasputin (Mar 15, 2014)

JTG said:


> You got figures for Bristol South in 83? Always thought that it was the lone Labour bastion south of the Severn/Wash line (outside of London) in the 80s - would Benn really have struggled to win it?



Here.


----------



## JTG (Mar 15, 2014)

rasputin said:


> Here.


Ta. Hadn't realised the Tories had got so close in 83 and 87 

And John Bercow was the defeated Tory candidate in 92


----------



## treelover (Mar 15, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/14/tony-benn-obituary


The Guardian obit by Brian Brivati is appalling and being an obit, there is no opportunity to challenge it., is he a Blairite or friend of Aronovitch?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2636424/
btw, there is a major doc on him coming out


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 15, 2014)

treelover said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/14/tony-benn-obituary
> 
> 
> The Guardian obit by Brian Brivati is appalling, is he a Blairite or friend of Aronovitch?
> ...


yeh it's safe to put out a doc on him as he is not entirely harmless.


----------



## rasputin (Mar 15, 2014)

JTG said:


> Ta. Hadn't realised the Tories had got so close in 83 and 87



SDP split the Labour vote badly in those years (with the Liberals and SDP in a pact not to field candidates against each other.)


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 15, 2014)

They had Blunkett on the Today programme yesterday morning and I tweeted "Blunkett isn't fit to shine Tony Benn's shoes". Some Nu Labour numpty replied by telling me that Blunkett "was a pragmatist", to which I replied, "No, he's (Blunkett) an opportunist and a careerist and you're a neoliberal apologist". "I've never been called any kind of liberal before" he shouted back. There's a first time for everything.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 15, 2014)

revol68 said:


> the fawning over him on here is embarrassing, he's reduced from a political figure who shut more mines than Thatcher and was capital's loyal opposition into everyone's favourite granda.
> 
> I would expect such shite from articul8 and other Labour hacks but come on.


----------



## rasputin (Mar 15, 2014)

For those who can stomach the Daily Mail site, there are some classic excerpts from TB's diaries.  

Loved these:

_Tuesday, September 27, 2005: Labour Party Conference, Brighton. I watched Tony Blair’s speech. It confirmed my view that he has made the Labour Party, the Labour movement, irrelevant. 

He’s used it as the first stage of the rocket to get him into space, and has been circuiting the Earth for eight years, since 1997, and our role is just to look up and admire the satellite._

and

_Wednesday, May 29, 2002: Visiting Chris Mullin in Sunderland. He is passionately against smoking, so I smoked in his garden, and when I came into the house I put the pipe in my pocket. 

Went to the loo, and when I came out the jacket was burning, fortunately not on to Chris’s carpet. He doused it with water._


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 15, 2014)

revol68 said:


> the fawning over him on here is embarrassing, he's reduced from a political figure who shut more mines than Thatcher and was capital's loyal opposition into everyone's favourite granda.
> 
> I would expect such shite from articul8 and other Labour hacks but come on.



The comments are regarding Tony Benn as a man, not as comment on his political ideology. You would be very mean spirited not to recognise his eminence as a man.


----------



## rekil (Mar 15, 2014)

.


Doctor Carrot said:


> . Anyway what are those picking holes and moaning done? Fuck what have I even done for the poor and down trodden? Not a great deal tbh and I doubt many of you have either, far easier to pick holes in things, be a keyboard warrior and moan at pretty much anyone who mentions socialism for not being a twue socialist because they're in the mainstream media.


I find this attitude problematic because essentially it can be used to browbeat and exclude anyone outside professional and amateur #activist circles from having a political view, which is nearly everybody. Even then, within those circles and bubbles there's always oneupmanship games going on. The people I got pointlessly annoyed with were the intersectionalista types who spend their entire time being ultra right-on about all the isms and calling out people for using wrong words etc, but got their bratty teenage rolleyed sneers in at Benn's death as soon as possible, conveniently discarding their veneer of cultivated sensitivity and ignoring the feelings of vast numbers of people who met, liked and respected the man.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 15, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> The comments are regarding Tony Benn as a man, not as comment on his political ideology. You would be very mean spirited no to recognise his eminence as a man.



Urban Unity Post of the Year.


----------



## Flanflinger (Mar 15, 2014)

Knotted said:


> Good god. Dennis Healey on Newsnight is being truly pathetic. He wanted to be working class? Huh?


 
One thing you could never accuse Benn of being was working class. I suspect when details of his will are published a fair few lefties will be spitting tea from their mugs.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 15, 2014)

yes, people will be fair astonished to learn that closely guarded secret that TB was a man of means and from aristo stock


----------



## likesfish (Mar 15, 2014)

Unlike some I would imagine he payed his fair share of taxes and didnt hide it all in an offshore trust fund.


----------



## Balbi (Mar 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> yes, people will be fair astonished to learn that closely guarded secret that TB was a man of means and from aristo stock



Seven page Mail spread


----------



## Delroy Booth (Mar 15, 2014)

revol68 said:


> the fawning over him on here is embarrassing, he's reduced from a political figure who shut more mines than Thatcher and was capital's loyal opposition into everyone's favourite granda.
> 
> I would expect such shite from articul8 and other Labour hacks but come on.


----------



## Gerry1time (Mar 15, 2014)

Little more to add, other than I once got to spend a good length of time chatting to him alone at Glastonbury one year, and he was a properly lovely and fiercely intelligent chap. Our politics didn't exactly coincide in all areas, but am certain the world is a much poorer place without him. Can't believe he won't be back at Glastonbury this year.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Mar 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> yes, people will be fair astonished to learn that closely guarded secret that TB was a man of means and from aristo stock



That's never really bothered me a great deal to tell you the truth. He was someone who went a long way to distance himself from his privileged upbringing for the sake of sincerely held political beliefs.

and the claim that he closed more mines than Thatcher is factually wrong in the extreme. This has been done to death when Thatcher snuffed it so I have no intention of going through it now but revol68 should probably use his own critical thinking skills before parrotting crude and factually incorrect Daily Mail soundites on a thread about Tony Benn's death.


----------



## Corax (Mar 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> yes, people will be fair astonished to learn that closely guarded secret that TB was a man of means and from aristo stock


WHAT? 

I feel so betrayed


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 15, 2014)

Corax said:


> WHAT?
> 
> I feel so betrayed


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 15, 2014)

Delroy Booth said:


> That's never really bothered me a great deal to tell you the truth. He was someone who went a long way to distance himself from his privileged upbringing for the sake of sincerely held political beliefs.
> 
> and the claim that he closed more mines than Thatcher is factually wrong in the extreme. This has been done to death when Thatcher snuffed it so I have no intention of going through it now but revol68 should probably use his own critical thinking skills before parrotting crude and factually incorrect Daily Mail soundites on a thread about Tony Benn's death.




predicatbley the right wing press have banged on about that a lot. in the ITV hatchet job they also managed to make him look like Saddams best mate.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> predicatbley the right wing press have banged on about that a lot. in the ITV hatchet job they also managed to make him look like Saddams best mate.



No, that was that odious cunt Galloway.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 15, 2014)

Delroy Booth said:


> That's never really bothered me a great deal to tell you the truth. He was someone who went a long way to distance himself from his privileged upbringing for the sake of sincerely held political beliefs.


My perspective on it is that he largely tried to use the advantages he had gained from his privilege - education, confidence, contacts - to help those who had not had those privileges. The only thing he did was to keep his nice house. But he wasn't a hypocrite, imo - he sent his kids to state school, used only the NHS, travelled by public transport, and by all accounts had a pretty modest personal style of life and consumption. 

He kept the nice house. TBH, I would have done, too.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 15, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> No, that was that odious cunt Galloway.


No, that was himself. Galloway made half a million quid off the rights to the embarrassing interview.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 15, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> My perspective on it is that he largely tried to use the advantages he had gained from his privilege - education, confidence, contacts - to help those who had not had those privileges. The only thing he did was to keep his nice house. But he wasn't a hypocrite, imo - he sent his kids to state school, used only the NHS, travelled by public transport, and by all accounts had a pretty modest personal style of life and consumption.
> 
> He kept the nice house. TBH, I would have done, too.


He did the tax thing with Hilary. He did send his kids to private school - and then the best state school possible.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Mar 15, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> My perspective on it is that he largely tried to use the advantages he had gained from his privilege - education, confidence, contacts - to help those who had not had those privileges. The only thing he did was to keep his nice house. But he wasn't a hypocrite, imo - he sent his kids to state school, used only the NHS, travelled by public transport, and by all accounts had a pretty modest personal style of life and consumption.
> 
> He kept the nice house. TBH, I would have done, too.



Exactly and call me bourgeois materialistic vermin if you must but I don't have a problem on principle with someone having a nice house. Infact I'd like everyone to have a nice house. And a nice car. 

Nothing's too good for the working class comrade


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 15, 2014)

Delroy Booth said:


> Exactly and call me bourgeois materialistic vermin if you must but I don't have a problem on principle with someone having a nice house. Infact I'd like everyone to have a nice house. And a nice car.
> 
> Nothing's too good for the working class comrade


Let us have it then.


----------



## rasputin (Mar 15, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> No, that was that odious cunt Galloway.



As Galloway memorably pointed out to a US Senate Committee, he met Saddam exactly the same number of times that Donald Rumsfeld did.


----------



## Plumdaff (Mar 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> yes, people will be fair astonished to learn that closely guarded secret that TB was a man of means and from aristo stock



:-D 

Benn didn't have to hide his background because he liked people and sincerely wasn't trying to fuck us over. Most other politicians hide behind a cloak of risible ordinariness, that never quite masks the contempt.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 15, 2014)

rasputin said:


> As Galloway memorably pointed out to a US Senate Committee, he met Saddam exactly the same number of times that Donald Rumsfeld did.



And Rumsfeld isn't also an odious cunt?


----------



## rekil (Mar 15, 2014)

A symbolic expropriation of Bono's house by PD is on the cards. If I could be bothered to come up with a decent sign or banner and head down there. 

(which i'm not, and it's far)


----------



## rasputin (Mar 15, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> And Rumsfeld isn't also an odious cunt?



Indeed he is; but remember that Galloway was testifying to a Republican-chaired Senate Committee at the time.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 15, 2014)

Tbf to Galloway the yanks invited him over their with the idea that he'd  eat humble pie 
 To misquote dr who " theres one thing you dont do if you value your sense of importance you dont give george a microphone"


----------



## ferrelhadley (Mar 15, 2014)

Flanflinger said:


> One thing you could never accuse Benn of being was working class. I suspect when details of his will are published a fair few lefties will be spitting tea from their mugs.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 15, 2014)

likesfish said:


> Tbf to Galloway the yanks invited him over their with the idea that he'd  eat humble pie
> To misquote dr who " theres one thing you dont do if you value your sense of importance you dont give george a microphone"



he does love his day in the dock. He didn't even have any legal compulsion to go, but fuck I bet he was on the next flight out as soon as the summons arrived.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Mar 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> he does love the sound of his own voice



fix'd


----------



## Belushi (Mar 15, 2014)

Flanflinger said:


> One thing you could never accuse Benn of being was working class. I suspect when details of his will are published a fair few lefties will be spitting tea from their mugs.



No 

I'd always assumed he just changed his name because it sounded like a biscuit.


----------



## treelover (Mar 15, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


>



I wonder how much damage that series and icon did to the far left, do/did other European countries have its equivalent?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 15, 2014)

None and yes.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Mar 15, 2014)

treelover said:


> I wonder how much damage that series and icon did to the far left, do/did other European countries have its equivalent?



minimal really, besides the left did (and still does) act in a way that deserves to have the piss taken out of it


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 15, 2014)

As much damage as Alf Garnett did to the right


----------



## articul8 (Mar 15, 2014)

In need of chuckle?  A friend who's a radio presenter recorded a Mongolian throat-singer for BBC R4 Today programme - but it accidentally got played instead of an interview with Benn :
https://audioboo.fm/boos/1993115-tony-benn-mongolian-throat-singer-mix-up


----------



## goldenecitrone (Mar 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> As much damage as Alf Garnett did to the right



Or Rik did to anarchists.


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 15, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> The comments are regarding Tony Benn as a man, not as comment on his political ideology. You would be very mean spirited not to recognise his eminence as a man.


as far I was aware he was never made a Cardinal of the Holy Catholic Church


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 15, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> as far I was aware he was never made a Cardinal of the Holy Catholic Church



Not Eminence, eminence.


----------



## JTG (Mar 15, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> Not Eminence, eminence.


The real Slim Shady


----------



## Manter (Mar 15, 2014)

treelover said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/14/tony-benn-obituary
> 
> 
> The Guardian obit by Brian Brivati is appalling and being an obit, there is no opportunity to challenge it., is he a Blairite or friend of Aronovitch?
> ...


That obit is dreadful. Catty, spiteful and incoherent


----------



## JTG (Mar 15, 2014)

Manter said:


> That obit is dreadful. Catty, spiteful and incoherent


Was it written by an Urban poster?


----------



## Manter (Mar 15, 2014)

JTG said:


> Was it written by an Urban poster?


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 15, 2014)

Catty, Spiteful and Incoherent are the Guardian's legal representatives, so I'd watch what you're saying.


----------



## articul8 (Mar 15, 2014)

Brivati is Progress I think


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 15, 2014)

treelover said:


> I wonder how much damage that series and icon did to the far left, do/did other European countries have its equivalent?


Don't worry treelover, some of those of us on the left don't take ourselves as seriously as you do.


----------



## JHE (Mar 15, 2014)

treelover said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/14/tony-benn-obituary
> 
> 
> The Guardian obit by Brian Brivati is appalling and *being an obit, there is no opportunity to challenge it*., is he a Blairite or friend of Aronovitch?



You can challenge an obituary in the Guardian in exactly the same way you can challenge any other article in a newspaper: you can write a letter or email giving your criticism.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 15, 2014)

I have just read that obit. It is very detailed and thorough. I liked Benn but don't object to that criticism which I think is fair comment. If he were able to see it he would not be affronted when you think of what he was used to from the Mail & Co.

edited to change 'is' to 'was'


----------



## killer b (Mar 16, 2014)

spinning in his grave already. 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/16/tony-benn-title-father


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 16, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> He did the tax thing with Hilary. He did send his kids to private school - and then the best state school possible.


You're right, he did send them private first. I was being too generous. That's not good enough.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 16, 2014)

articul8 said:


> Brivati is Progress I think


Progress, a poor choice of name for a group of reactionaries.


----------



## Manter (Mar 16, 2014)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Don't worry treelover, some of those of us on the left don't take ourselves as seriously as you do.


I think it's ok when it gets into it's stride. But it starts out going on about a messianic complex, which is weird


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 16, 2014)

Flanflinger said:


> One thing you could never accuse Benn of being was working class. I suspect when details of his will are published a fair few lefties will be spitting tea from their mugs.



You suspect that because you're a fucking moron.


----------



## Manter (Mar 16, 2014)

Why the fuck did tapatalk quote that post? Ugh. @hocus eye was in response to the obit post


----------



## cantsin (Mar 16, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> The comments are regarding Tony Benn as a man, not as comment on his political ideology. You would be very mean spirited not to recognise his eminence as a man.



great, just what this thread needed, a Tory bell along to tell us what the thread is about , and what is / isnt "mean spirited " 

As for :  "The comments are regarding Tony Benn as a man, not as comment on his political ideology..."  what ?  have you read the thread?  It's full of "comment on his political ideology ", as would be expected.  

Total nonsense from you, as so often.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 16, 2014)

cantsin said:


> great, just what this thread needed, a Tory bell along to tell us what the thread is about , and what is / isnt "mean spirited "
> 
> As for :  "The comments are regarding Tony Benn as a man, not as comment on his political ideology..."  what ?  have you read the thread?  It's full of "comment on his political ideology ", as would be expected.
> 
> Total nonsense from you, as so often.




Is being a bellend congenital, or are you the sole representative in your family?


----------



## cantsin (Mar 16, 2014)

Sasaferrato said:


> Is being a bellend congenital, or are you the sole representative in your family?



more rubbish, well done


----------



## Corax (Mar 16, 2014)

cantsin said:


> great, just what this thread needed, a Tory bell along to tell us what the thread is about , and what is / isnt "mean spirited "
> 
> As for :  "The comments are regarding Tony Benn as a man, not as comment on his political ideology..."  what ?  have you read the thread?  It's full of "comment on his political ideology ", as would be expected.
> 
> Total nonsense from you, as so often.


WTF is this?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 16, 2014)

killer b said:


> spinning in his grave already.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/16/tony-benn-title-father



How strange, one would have thought the title would have become extinct once Tony Benn renounced it.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 16, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> That's one thing that really gets on my wick about the left in this country. When someone who was actually on our side dies, two happen to have gone this week, you can't just remember them for the good things they did that actually helped our side can you? Oh no, it's 'oh he was part of the establishment' even when he renounced his peerage. 'oh he shut down more mines than Thatcher' even though he didn't and as if fucking coal mines are the be all and end all of workers struggle.
> 
> I've seen the same sort of toss dished out for Crow 'oh he funded bankers because the RMT has shares in corporations' yeah? and? We live in a capitalist society what do you expect the RMT to do? Live off fucking kidney beans? You fund bankers every time you buy a fucking t shirt from the high street. Yeah they might've invested in those companies but what did they use the dividends for? Oh that's right, getting his members results, turning up to meetings, strikes and demos of other unions, donations to other causes and so on.
> 
> I mean FFS, none of these people are above criticism of course but why peddle the right's propaganda for them? They have, ya know, complete control of the media they don't need your help. Anyway what are those picking holes and moaning done? Fuck what have I even done for the poor and down trodden? Not a great deal tbh and I doubt many of you have either, far easier to pick holes in things, be a keyboard warrior and moan at pretty much anyone who mentions socialism for not being a twue socialist because they're in the mainstream media.



1	so you want totally uncritical response to the death of anyone "on our side " ? Only there seems to be about 95 % remembering" them for the good things they did " on here, and very little critical appraisal, but you want 100 % non critical ?

2	"Anyway what are (sic)  those picking holes and moaning done ? " - ( _deep breath...) ...._so unless I / you / have "done " more / an equal ammount, than any given political  figure, we have no right to critically appraise them  ? As non professional activists/ political figures,  we should just shut up and observe/consume ?


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 16, 2014)

Especially the Poor and Downtrodden, who can't speak or do anything for themselves.


----------



## Flanflinger (Mar 16, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> Especially the *Poor and Downtrodden*, who can't speak or do anything for themselves.


 
And most of them wouldn't have a clue who he was or what he stood for.


----------



## JHE (Mar 16, 2014)

Flanflinger said:


> And most of them wouldn't have a clue who he was or what he stood for.



If you mean most of the poor and downtrodden in the world, I suppose you are right, but if you mean in Britain, I think you underestimate Benn's fame.


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 16, 2014)

I think you overestimate, tbh. Depending on the generation we are talking about.


----------



## JHE (Mar 16, 2014)

It probably does depend a lot on generation, but IME a lot of people far too young to remember Benn in the 1980s knew about him and had opinions on him.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Mar 16, 2014)

cantsin said:


> 1	so you want totally uncritical response to the death of anyone "on our side " ? Only there seems to be about 95 % remembering" them for the good things they did " on here, and very little critical appraisal, but you want 100 % non critical ?



No, would be nice if it wasn't the same tiresome 'I'm significantly more wadical than you' shite though.



cantsin said:


> 2	"Anyway what are (sic)  those picking holes and moaning done ? " - ( _deep breath...) ...._so unless I / you / have "done " more / an equal ammount, *(sic)* than any given political  figure, we have no right to critically appraise them  ? As non professional activists/ political figures,  we should just shut up and observe/consume ?



Not what I said and anyway it was already picked up by copliker, in a much better way than you I might add, and I acknowledged it by liking the post because saying 'fair enough, good point' is kind of a pointless post to make.  You clearly missed the bit where I said 'none of these people are above criticism' so I have no idea what you're blathering on about. Seems like you just read a little bit of my post, saw red and interpreted it how you wanted.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Mar 16, 2014)

JHE said:


> It probably does depend a lot on generation, but IME a lot of people far too young to remember Benn in the 1980s knew about him and had opinions on him.



Yeah, me for example. I only know of Benn from his anti war activities over the past decade.


----------



## rover07 (Mar 17, 2014)

I saw him speak at a Labour Youth thing in Chesterfield. There was only about 30 of us there, dont recall what he said exactly, it was a general speech about socialism and hope for the future. It was pretty inspiring.

Thanks, Tony.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 17, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> Especially the Poor and Downtrodden, who can't speak or do anything for themselves.


the one who cleans my house is well gobby


----------



## tim (Mar 17, 2014)

treelover said:


> I wonder how much damage that series and icon did to the far left..........?



Less  than the sleazy reality of Gerry Healy, or  Comrade Bala.


----------



## tim (Mar 17, 2014)

From the* "Daily Hail" 

Monday, February 21 *
Got up at 6.45am because I wanted to be the first man in the new supermarket in Notting Hill Gate. I wandered round to see what they had, and there were one or two things I really have missed.
They had these cup-a- soups, which I love. They also had ice cream. They had little pizzas. They had vegetarian burgers. So I felt really pleased.


: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483694/Tony-Benns-diaries-How-dare-gossips-say-friendship-Natasha-Kaplinsky-just-platonic.html#ixzz2wFadhuSq 

I always enjoyed the non-political aspect of his diaries such as the above. Rather like Alan Bennett as you read it you hear his voice. I can't imagine any other public figure rhapsodising about an early morning trip to Tesco's, He had a rather bizarre naivety.


----------



## treelover (Mar 17, 2014)

Doesn't Cameron live there, maybe he bumped into him?


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 18, 2014)

Knotted said:


> Good god. Dennis Healey on Newsnight is being truly pathetic. He wanted to be working class? Huh?



Of course he and Tony had historic beef:


----------



## ibilly99 (Mar 22, 2014)

An interesting insight into a complex man.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/22/tony-benn-peter-wilby-reads-diaries
_
His relations with political opposites, by contrast, were often extraordinarily intimate and cordial. He was, for example, a long-standing friend of Enoch Powell, reassuring him in 1959 – Powell had resigned as chief secretary to the treasury the previous year over plans for increased public spending – that "his sheer ability and lucidity would carry him upwards". Benn's initial reaction to Powell's "rivers of blood" speech in 1968, as recorded in his diaries, was not so much to condemn as to observe that Powell was of "working-class origins" and had "never been accepted in the Tory Party". Another opponent for whom Benn, a Sinn Féin supporter, had a soft spot was Ian Paisley. He described him in 1997 as "a very nice guy … a good constituency Member … [with] a good class sense … an amusing guy". He found Norman Tebbit "terribly soft and good-natured" and "really a rather decent guy". John Major was "such a nice guy", a victim of "the Establishment" which mocked him "to prove to itself that it was right to transfer its loyalty from the Tory Party to New Labour". Benn was "rather fond" of Edward Heath, with whom he shared views about Blair's foreign policy. "I greatly value my friendship with you," he told him in 1998._


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 23, 2014)

You beat me to that -- I was going to link to that piece. Excellent read, and fascinating throughout.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 23, 2014)

He sounds like total naive wanker from that.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 23, 2014)

I was astonished about how very few books he ever read.


----------



## Ponyutd (Mar 23, 2014)

I took this picture this Friday opposite the House of Commons.
 I don't think there were more than 30 bunches of flowers,hardly Diana is it.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 23, 2014)

But then, Benn had Kinnock's number right from the beginning.


> As Kinnock emerged as a young rival on the left, Benn's diaries reveal withering contempt. Kinnock was "not a substantial person … a media figure really", Benn recorded in 1976. The effect of his leadership, he noted in 1992, was to destroy the Labour party "financially, as well as politically, morally and intellectually and organisationally". During that year's election campaign, he viewed him as "grinning and arrogant, and strident and raucous". After Kinnock left the leadership in the wake of the election defeat, Benn recorded: "I really thank God that man was never Prime Minister." His hostility to Kinnock made him, if only briefly, sympathetic to Tony Blair when Blair succeeded to the leadership. "I must not get into the business of being seen as critical of the new Leader," he told his diary.



Kinnock gave us Blair and Mandelson. Nuff said.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Mar 23, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> But then, Benn had Kinnock's number right from the beginning.
> 
> 
> Kinnock gave us Blair and Mandelson. Nuff said.




Also the same kinnock that sat on his arse during the miner's strike doing nothing to support the miners and from what I remember kinnock was not to hot in defying the poll tax


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 23, 2014)

SikhWarrioR said:


> Also the same kinnock that sat on his arse during the miner's strike doing nothing to support the miners and from what I remember kinnock was not to hot in defying the poll tax


I can remember Kinnock advising people to pay the Poll Tax and not offering to repeal it in the event Labour got into power. The party's support for the miners was non-existent. Its current attitude to strikes (qv. Miliband's lack of support for the teachers' strike) is exactly the same as it was in the 1980s towards the miners.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2014)

Having said RIP earlier in the thread and still having a bit of residual affection for him personally, it would be hypocritical to go on the attack.  However I do think he got the big things wrong, even in his 'left phase' after 1979.  His mixture of parliamentary cretinism and support for extra parliamentary action was incoherent, as were his historical allusions.  Most of all he was wrong to think there was a radical left route available through parliament (with himself as the head of it, naturally) - along with his unwillingness to break with Labour in the Blair/Brown years.  Any kind of radical could see there was no radical potential in Labour - even more obviously so if you view it from a revolutionary perspective. Even by his _own_ logic, he should have regarded them as the political enemy, but in _practice_ he supported them to the end.  You can still admire the campaigning he did, he could have chosen to add more millions to his bank balance (though the diaries and tours presumably made a few bob).


----------



## tony.c (Mar 24, 2014)

newbie said:


> I wonder if there'll be an opportunity for the public to join his funeral procession.  From, say, the Embankment to Speakers Corner?


 
Tony Benn's funeral is due to take place at 1100 on Thursday (27 March) at St Margarets Church, College Green, Westminster - opposite the public entrance to the House of Commons. He will be in a House of Commons chapel the night before, so there is only a short procession to the Church for his family.
Well wishers are  invited to attend outside the church to show support.
Anyone wishing to attend the funeral service inside the church can email  benn.funeral@westminster-abbey.org though places are likely to be limited


----------



## newbie (Mar 24, 2014)

thanks, I might...


----------



## treelover (Mar 24, 2014)

If I was in London I certainly would go.


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 25, 2014)

heres his last ever tv interview, thought it was quite good . He was a very decent and civilised man Ive always had time for.


----------



## newbie (Mar 25, 2014)

yes, and although he was latterly defanged and turned into a national treasure, for most of my adult life he was the one on the telly or the radio articulating an argument I could more or less endorse. There hasn't really been anyone else doing that and I don't hear anyone now doing it.

Maybe his death will leave a space which someone credible can grow into, we have to live in hope.


----------



## redcogs (Mar 25, 2014)

"we have to live in hope"

i'm managing to get by on despair - but its tough going.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 25, 2014)

I understand that Owen Jones has got something going on twatter ( I dont do this, so apologes if its a red herring)

#turnoutfortony


----------



## treelover (Mar 25, 2014)

http://www.leftfutures.org/2014/03/details-of-tony-benn-funeral-arrangements/


We owe him...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 25, 2014)

Interesting piece by Dennis Skinner from leftfutures on TB, saying that he thinks Benn changed in the early 70s, that he finally 'got' trade unionism having come from a different background.



> Then there was what happened at the Upper Clyde Shipbuilding, which has already been mentioned, and on it went. The truth is that those of us who were in the thick of it knew that it was having a major effect on him. Let us just examine what we are saying about Tony. He was shaped by events all his life. He had an environment that was different from mine as a kid, but then, as I say, it all changed.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> http://www.leftfutures.org/2014/03/details-of-tony-benn-funeral-arrangements/
> 
> 
> We owe him...


_Owe_?
Pedantic edit: fair enough, I'm just not sure _owing_ politicians is entirely healthy. Minor point though.


----------



## treelover (Mar 27, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/turnoutfortony

Assembling for the funeral


just watched that well known leftist Chukka Ummana go in to the service.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 27, 2014)

It's_ lying in state_ at parliament - what do you expect? Ian Bone?


----------



## treelover (Mar 27, 2014)

He's probably outside.


----------



## treelover (Mar 27, 2014)

http://bambuser.com/v/4481253


----------



## treelover (Mar 27, 2014)




----------



## JHE (Mar 27, 2014)

The Sally Army blokes are looking very severe.  Are they there to explain that poor old Tony Benn has now descended into eternal hellfire?


----------



## tony.c (Mar 27, 2014)

JHE said:


> The Sally Army blokes are looking very severe.  Are they there to explain that poor old Tony Benn has now descended into eternal hellfire?


They weren't Salvation Army. Seemed to be some sort of security with Westminster Abbey.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 27, 2014)

tony.c said:


> They weren't Salvation Army. Seemed to be some sort of security with Westminster Abbey.



ah - the church police


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 27, 2014)

Aka The God Squad.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 27, 2014)

treelover said:


>


I'm standing near that bus.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 27, 2014)

Margaret Beckett was late. She rocked up about 10 minutes before the end of the service.


----------



## tony.c (Mar 27, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> I'm standing near that bus.


I'm standing just to the left of those two in the left foreground of that picture.


----------



## tony.c (Mar 27, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> Margaret Beckett was late. She rocked up about 10 minutes before the end of the service.


Some people would be late for their own funeral!


----------



## Delroy Booth (Mar 27, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Interesting piece by Dennis Skinner from leftfutures on TB, saying that he thinks Benn changed in the early 70s, that he finally 'got' trade unionism having come from a different background.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 27, 2014)

John Bercow gave a eulogy ?? did him, Blair and Campbell etc join in with the singing of the Red Flag at the end I wonder  ?

as for Diane Abbot excitedly tweeting from the church about each new arriving politico - celeb : (


----------



## articul8 (Mar 27, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I do think he got the big things wrong, even in his 'left phase' after 1979.  His mixture of parliamentary cretinism and support for extra parliamentary action was incoherent, as were his historical allusions.  Most of all he was wrong to think there was a radical left route available through parliament (with himself as the head of it, naturally) - along with his unwillingness to break with Labour in the Blair/Brown years.  Any kind of radical could see there was no radical potential in Labour - even more obviously so if you view it from a revolutionary perspective. Even by his _own_ logic, he should have regarded them as the political enemy, but in _practice_ he supported them to the end.  You can still admire the campaigning he did, he could have chosen to add more millions to his bank balance (though the diaries and tours presumably made a few bob).


 
Parliament for Benn was not where politics starts and ends, but a space which has ultimately been forged by the power of the ruling class and which must be reshaped by the power of the people (he was a proper radical republican first and foremost, with pacifism, civil liberterianism, and ethical socialism in the mix).  Unlike most of the Labourist tradition ( even the left, Foot et al), he saw this as very much an unfinished business, requiring all sorts of other institutions to spread power out, and for those decisions which would still be made centrally, to enable the decision-makers to be held to account. 

By his own logic a party which (genuinely) represented and empowered working people, which they could hold to account, and replace if necessary - a democratised Labour party, was entirely consistent.	(Whether it's a good thing or not) he didn't have a fully Marxist or a Leninist critique of either capital or bourgeois democracy.  He really didn't see himself as an entryist in the Labour party, but wanted to break Labourism from its commitment to monarchy, to imperialism, to war, and (latterly) to the free market.

You've also got to remember his was the generation which elected a Labour government which created the NHS, radically expanded the welfare state, etc.  His belief that electing a radical government could make a real difference to the lives of millions never left him (whatever you might think of this).

Even on his own terms (let alone his family history - his Dad in Atlee's cabinet etc- and his social easiness with the SW1 set) it is easy to see why he stayed put.  He was never going to.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 27, 2014)

Skinner's almost wasted his political life as much as the Labour MPs behind him in that clip (almost).  But the rest of them are utterly disconnected even from the Labourist struggles and anecodotes he's offering up for them.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 27, 2014)

articul8 said:


> Parliament for Benn was not where politics starts and ends, but a space which has ultimately been forged by the power of the ruling class and which must be reshaped by the power of the people (he was a proper radical republican first and foremost, with pacifism, civil liberterianism, and ethical socialism in the mix).  Unlike most of the Labourist tradition ( even the left, Foot et al), he saw this as very much an unfinished business, requiring all sorts of other institutions to spread power out, and for those decisions which would still be made centrally, to enable the decision-makers to be held to account.


 I don't disagree that he thought that, it's just that he was wrong about it.


----------



## treelover (Mar 27, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> I'm standing near that bus.



Who are the two hipsters standing near John McDonnell?, they seemed quite prominent on the news, relatives?


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 27, 2014)

treelover said:


> Who are the two hipsters standing near John McDonnell?, they seemed quite prominent on the news, relatives?


Probably.


----------



## treelover (Mar 31, 2014)

mini preview of new tony doc

http://www.tonybennfilm.com/


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 31, 2014)

treelover said:


> Who are the two hipsters standing near John McDonnell?, they seemed quite prominent on the news, relatives?


----------



## treelover (Mar 31, 2014)

just do one will you, the bile that comes out on the commentariat thread is a lot worse than anything I post on here.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 31, 2014)

treelover said:


> just do one will you, the bile that comes out on the commentariat thread is a lot worse than anything I post on here.



Why don't you answer some of the questions put to you over the last few days you waste of skin?


----------



## Wilf (Mar 31, 2014)

Maudlin shit, if the clip is anything to go on.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 31, 2014)

treelover said:


> just do one will you, the bile that comes out on the commentariat thread is a lot worse than anything I post on here.


You want to take a leaf from Casually Red  's book.  He's some distance from the consensus on a lot of urban issues - but he has the guts to come back and debate with those who disagree with him.


----------



## DRINK? (Oct 27, 2014)

Interesting attitude to inheritance tax when it came to his own, well played tony


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2014)

treelover said:


> just do one will you, the bile that comes out on the commentariat thread is a lot worse than anything I post on here.


i've been waiting for seven months for you to return and answer questions here. i am not expecting you to come back now. there'll be an anniversary party for your non-answering in a few months on duckett's common, turnpike lane. i hope not to see you there.


----------



## comrade spurski (Oct 28, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> i've been waiting for seven months for you to return and answer questions here. i am not expecting you to come back now. there'll be an anniversary party for your non-answering in a few months on duckett's common, turnpike lane. i hope not to see you there.


Completely off topic but I used to play on the common when I was a little kid in the 70s when I went to stay at my cousins. ..used to go to escape my mums violent child beating piece of shit husband...used to lay on the grass watching the clouds go by and when I was a bit older used to listen to football on the radio there ...

like I said totally off topic and of no interest to anyone but me but my kids are doing their own thing and my other half is working so you have lot have to put up with my boring memories


----------



## redcogs (Oct 28, 2014)

That's a smashing bit of nostalgia spurski.  Fields, woods, commons, meadows, streams, hills, mountains, clouds, trees, flowers - they all do it for me.

i wonder if its an age thing?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 28, 2014)

comrade spurski said:


> Completely off topic but I used to play on the common when I was a little kid in the 70s when I went to stay at my cousins. ..used to go to escape my mums violent child beating piece of shit husband...used to lay on the grass watching the clouds go by and when I was a bit older used to listen to football on the radio there ...
> 
> like I said totally off topic and of no interest to anyone but me but my kids are doing their own thing and my other half is working so you have lot have to put up with my boring memories


The sort of memories comrades welcome.


----------



## imposs1904 (Oct 28, 2014)

comrade spurski said:


> Completely off topic but I used to play on the common when I was a little kid in the 70s when I went to stay at my cousins. ..used to go to escape my mums violent child beating piece of shit husband...used to lay on the grass watching the clouds go by and when I was a bit older used to listen to football on the radio there ...
> 
> like I said totally off topic and of no interest to anyone but me but my kids are doing their own thing and my other half is working so you have lot have to put up with my boring memories



Sounds like an old Jam lyric.


----------



## comrade spurski (Oct 28, 2014)

redcogs said:


> That's a smashing bit of nostalgia spurski.  Fields, woods, commons, meadows, streams, hills, mountains, clouds, trees, flowers - they all do it for me.
> 
> i wonder if its an age thing?


Theh older I get the more I love these things...not dure if its an age thing or cos I enjoyed sharing them with my kids when they were babies...or a bit of both


----------



## hash tag (Oct 30, 2014)

I know TB was a good egg ( or was he ) and I know this was in torygraph, but interesting none the less, he squirreled his millions away nicely
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2014)

hash tag said:


> I know TB was a good egg ( or was he ) and I know this was in torygraph, but interesting none the less, he squirreled his millions away nicely
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html


An old story, ran in the telegraph now because the mail ran a story 3 days ago that was pretty much just a re-print of their original 2007 story. This time they got dominc lawson who had already wrote another story 4 days after the original which itself was largely based on the mail story. So a this new one is a writer (private school and oxbridge) rewriting a story (written by John oliver - private school and oxbridge) that he had already ripped off 7 years ago, but this time in the paper that ran the original story he ripped off.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 30, 2014)

Sorry, I wouldn't know, I wouldn't touch the fail


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 30, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> An old story, ran in the telegraph now because the mail ran a story 3 days ago that was pretty much just a re-print of their original 2007 story. This time they got dominc lawson who had already wrote another story 4 days after the original which itself was largely based on the mail story. So a this new one is a writer (private school and oxbridge) rewriting a story (written by John oliver - private school and oxbridge) that he had already ripped off 7 years ago, but this time in the paper that ran the original story he ripped off.


Knowing the right wing press dined out on this doesn't quench my disappointment in his tax minimisation manoeuvres


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Knowing the right wing press dined out on this doesn't quench my disappointment in his tax minimisation manoeuvres


What till you hear about his early dalliance with sending his kids to private schools - whilst helping founding the campaign for comprehensive education.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 30, 2014)

Wilf said:


> You want to take a leaf from Casually Red  's book.  He's some distance from the consensus on a lot of urban issues - but he has the guts to come back and debate with those who disagree with him.



Well, those he doesn't have on ignore.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 30, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> What till you hear about his early dalliance with sending his kids to private schools - whilst helping founding the campaign for comprehensive education.



Compared to what we have I think Benn stacks up pretty well. Compared to what we want - which is more about structures than individuals - he was definitely wanting. Compared to me he was a hero.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 30, 2014)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Compared to what we have I think Benn stacks up pretty well. Compared to what we want - which is more about structures than individuals - he was definitely wanting. Compared to me he was a hero.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 30, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


>




Great song and a good reminder but I'm not going to take my political bearing from the Stranglers; heroes have their place if only as idealised aspirations.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 30, 2014)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Great song and a good reminder but I'm not going to take my political bearing from the Stranglers; heroes have their place if only as idealised aspirations.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 30, 2014)

How many have you got?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 30, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


>


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 30, 2014)

Even fictional ones might have some worth.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Flanflinger (Oct 30, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> What till you hear about his early dalliance with sending his kids to private schools - whilst helping founding the campaign for comprehensive education.


 When will people learn you can't trust a wealthy Lefty.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2014)

Flanflinger said:


> When will people learn you can't trust a wealthy Lefty.


The same time you think you're oh god....i've normally got energy -_ literally coming out my eyeballs..._but nah


----------



## newbie (Oct 31, 2014)

Flanflinger said:


> When will people learn you can't trust a wealthy Lefty.


I don't have a problem with heroes, though expecting perfection over the course or a long and full life is somewhat unrealistic, but trust?  Trust anyone*, politician, leftie or otherwise?  Don't be daft. 

* your mate or your partner, who've had your back as you've had theirs through thick and thin over the years, well that's obviously different.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 13, 2014)

I was never a fan of Benn's parliamentary cretinism, though I did have a soft spot for the daft tax dodging bastard personally.  But here's his son Stephen re-claiming the peerage, even though it doesn't even deliver a seat in the Lords.  Presumably he just _likes_ the idea of being a Viscount  - or thinks it will help his lobbying work. Wanker.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...en-benn-tony-son-reclaimed-hereditary-peerage


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 13, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I was never a fan of Benn's parliamentary cretinism, though I did have a soft spot for the daft tax dodging bastard personally.  But here's his son Stephen re-claiming the peerage, even though it doesn't even deliver a seat in the Lords.  Presumably he just _likes_ the idea of being a Viscount  - or thinks it will help his lobbying work. Wanker.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...en-benn-tony-son-reclaimed-hereditary-peerage


He wants into the lords as a labour peer though. There is an election next month for one of the hereditary peers places and he's put himself forward.


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## Wilf (Nov 13, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> He wants into the lords as a labour peer though. There is an election next month for one of the hereditary peers places and he's put himself forward.


 Ah, cheers.  Not sure if that makes it better or worse to be honest (using the very mechanism his pater threw off to get into power).


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## RedDragon (Nov 13, 2014)

Isn't the tax dodging being blamed on the mrs and you can't hold him responsible for the son's shenanigans 

odd to need to be an hereditary peer before being eligible to get elected by your fellow hereditary peers into the lords - even more fucked than just appointing your mates.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 13, 2014)

i understand the late viscount stansgate is still dead.


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## Wilf (Nov 13, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> you can't hold him responsible for the son's shenanigans


  I'm not blaming the former milord the honourable anthony neil wedgewood stansgate benn type person, that was my point. It just seems a bit hypocritical to use the peerage, if nothing else in terms of the micro-politics of the Benn family.

Actually, Wedgie's name is really shit compared to Professor the Hon. Ædgyth Bertha Milburg Mary Antonia Frances Lyon-Dalberg-Acton Callinicos.


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## AmateurAgitator (Tuesday at 8:18 PM)

He was good friends with Enoch Powell. They were both members of that ruling class club, parliament. Brothers of the bourgeois establishment.


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## Valve (Tuesday at 8:23 PM)

An 8 year, 3 month bump. Wonder what the record is?


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## LDC (Tuesday at 8:25 PM)

He's bumped an 8 year old thread to lecture us with the class war troof.


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## Pickman's model (Tuesday at 8:28 PM)

Valve said:


> An 8 year, 3 month bump. Wonder what the record is?


Something like 20


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## Pickman's model (Tuesday at 8:30 PM)

AmateurAgitator said:


> He was good friends with Enoch Powell. They were both members of that ruling class club, parliament. Brothers of the bourgeois establishment.


This is another of those daft posts which have given you your unenviable reputation. Just because people are in parliament together doesn't make them mates - as can be seen from the relationship between eg Edward heath and Margaret thatcher


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## StoneRoad (Tuesday at 8:40 PM)

AmateurAgitator said:


> He was good friends with Enoch Powell. They were both members of that ruling class club, parliament. Brothers of the bourgeois establishment.


at best - a very unlikely situation.


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## hash tag (Tuesday at 8:50 PM)

Valve said:


> An 8 year, 3 month bump. Wonder what the record is?


Pha, 8 years, even 9 is nothing.


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## AmateurAgitator (Tuesday at 8:50 PM)

StoneRoad said:


> at best - a very unlikely situation.


Not at all. Its a documented fact.


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## belboid (Tuesday at 9:16 PM)

LDC said:


> He's bumped an 8 year old thread to lecture us with the class war troof.


Like a drunk in the pub who’s only just realised no one is paying him attention, so tries to pick a fight.


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## CNT36 (Tuesday at 9:47 PM)

LDC said:


> He's bumped an 8 year old thread to lecture us with the class war troof.


Annoying as that is I was just relieved Tony Benn wasn't a nonce.


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## tim (Tuesday at 9:51 PM)

Pickman's model said:


> This is another of those daft posts which have given you your unenviable reputation. Just because people are in parliament together doesn't make them mates - as can be seen from the relationship between eg Edward heath and Margaret thatcher



I remember being shocked by Eric Heffer writing about his fondness and admiration for Enoch Powell. I can't find the article, but there is a reference to it here.

Chris Harman: Sad memories (March 1991)


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## AnnO'Neemus (Tuesday at 9:58 PM)

tim said:


> I remember being shocked by Eric Heffer writing about his fondness and admiration for Enoch Powell. I can't find the article, but there is a reference to it here.
> 
> Chris Harman: Sad memories (March 1991)


I suppose it's a bit like Matt Hancock in the jungle. The other slebs were outraged initially, including some whose family/people they knew had been adversely impact by Matt Hancock's misrule at the Department of Health during the pandemic. But then they put aside their objections and got to know him and then it transpired they liked him as a person even if they didn't like his politics and his deadly fuckwittery at the DoH.


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## AmateurAgitator (Tuesday at 10:45 PM)

Benn attended Powell's funeral and described him as his friend.


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## littlebabyjesus (Tuesday at 11:23 PM)

ffs AA, first Scargill and now this. 

I'm guessing you're about 14 years old. You're just discovering now that your supposed heroes were in fact flawed human beings, but you don't know that other people realised this years ago, cos you're only 14.

Bless.


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## littlebabyjesus (Tuesday at 11:29 PM)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Benn attended Powell's funeral and described him as his friend.


You were what, 6 years old when Benn died? You do realise that many of us on here crossed paths with him in our adult lives back in the day?


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## 8ball (Wednesday at 12:15 AM)

AmateurAgitator said:


> He was good friends with Enoch Powell. They were both members of that ruling class club, parliament. Brothers of the bourgeois establishment.



You’re not necessarily defined by your mates.


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## Pickman's model (Wednesday at 8:05 AM)

tim said:


> I remember being shocked by Eric Heffer writing about his fondness and admiration for Enoch Powell. I can't find the article, but there is a reference to it here.
> 
> Chris Harman: Sad memories (March 1991


Not denying they were friends but the basis of their amity was they were members of the same institution, and it's that that's daft


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## AmateurAgitator (Wednesday at 9:05 AM)

So there you go, if you're a state capitalist politician its absolutely fine to be good mates with a tory who stirred up a load of racial hatred and anti-immigrant sentiment. Groovy.


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## Pickman's model (Wednesday at 10:15 AM)

AmateurAgitator said:


> So there you go, if you're a state capitalist politician its absolutely fine to be good mates with a tory who stirred up a load of racial hatred. Groovy.


Yes that's really what's been said.  were you the redoubtable rebel warrior in a previous urban incarnation?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Wednesday at 10:18 AM)

8ball said:


> You’re not necessarily defined by your mates.



Pretty sure none of my mates would be pure enough for AA tbh.


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## billy_bob (Wednesday at 10:38 AM)

This agitation certainly is amateur.


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## littlebabyjesus (Wednesday at 10:42 AM)

Was Benn 'mates' with Powell? Did they visit each other's houses, share confidences, go out on the town together? Or did they spend time together at the House of Commons (their workplace), sharing a pot of tea? From what I can gather, it was the latter.


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## eatmorecheese (Wednesday at 10:43 AM)

Poor Tony Benn, died again apparently. Weird bump


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## Elpenor (Wednesday at 10:44 AM)

eatmorecheese said:


> Poor Tony Benn, died again apparently. Weird bump


First time as tragedy, second time as farce


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## Magnus McGinty (Wednesday at 11:09 AM)

Only clicked on here to check if my hunch was right about who bumped it (it was).


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## Wilf (Wednesday at 11:10 AM)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Was Benn 'mates' with Powell? Did they visit each other's houses, share confidences, go out on the town together? Or did they spend time together at the House of Commons (their workplace), sharing a pot of tea? From what I can gather, it was the latter.


I think there was a chip butty in 1974.


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## The39thStep (Wednesday at 11:43 AM)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Only clicked on here to check if my hunch was right about who bumped it (it was).


Worst who dunnit ever


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## elbows (Wednesday at 1:00 PM)

AmateurAgitator said:


> So there you go, if you're a state capitalist politician its absolutely fine to be good mates with a tory who stirred up a load of racial hatred. Groovy.


At your current trajectory it wont be long before you end up denouncing yourself.


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## DaveCinzano (Wednesday at 1:15 PM)

elbows said:


> At your current trajectory it wont be long before you end up denouncing yourself.


United Red Facepalmy


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## belboid (Wednesday at 1:37 PM)

elbows said:


> At your current trajectory it wont be long before you end up denouncing yourself.


I do suspect that every other ANCOM member is really still in the ACG and they’re hoping that he doesn’t notice when they all quietly return to the nest.


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## Jeff Robinson (Wednesday at 1:40 PM)

I'm reminded of the infamous Spartacist League placard: 'Tony Benn: IMPERIALIST BUTCHER!'


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## littlebabyjesus (Wednesday at 1:48 PM)

I've probably already said this on this thread somewhere, but through the late 80/90s, Benn was just about the only politician who appeared on TV who ever said anything that I remotely related to. He would be invited on Question Time and list the countries the US had bombed since the end of WW2, for instance. I will always be fond of him for that reason. I really don't give a shit that he was friendly with Powell and went to his funeral.


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## The39thStep (Wednesday at 1:50 PM)

elbows said:


> At your current trajectory it wont be long before you end up denouncing yourself.


View attachment Untitled video - Made with Clipchamp.mp4


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## Fozzie Bear (Wednesday at 1:54 PM)

_Adds "Benn/Powell" slash fiction to task list_


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## tim (Wednesday at 1:58 PM)

Ishoos not personalities


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## tim (Wednesday at 2:08 PM)

Wilf said:


> I think there was a chip butty in 1974.



There were several shared platforms in the  referendum to leave the European Common Market in 1975as both were pioneer Brexitits.


I can't see Benn in this photo but Powell is there alongside Peter Shore and Barbara Castle.


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## iona (Wednesday at 2:32 PM)

Fozzie Bear said:


> _Adds "Benn/Powell" slash fiction to task list_


Rule 34 tho


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## AmateurAgitator (Wednesday at 2:33 PM)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I've probably already said this on this thread somewhere, but through the late 80/90s, Benn was just about the only politician who appeared on TV who ever said anything that I remotely related to. He would be invited on Question Time and list the countries the US had bombed since the end of WW2, for instance. I will always be fond of him for that reason. I really don't give a shit that he was friendly with Powell and went to his funeral.


Friends, not just friendly.


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## DaveCinzano (Wednesday at 2:35 PM)

Fozzie Bear said:


> _Adds "Benn/Powell" slash fiction to task list_


Coming together to bridge rivers of blood


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## elbows (Wednesday at 2:36 PM)

Friends Episode guide: The One With The Moomin*troll* Avatar.


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## Fozzie Bear (Wednesday at 2:41 PM)

iona said:


> Rule 34 tho


Enoch felt the lust welling up inside him, foaming like the River Tiber. "I burn for you Tony, this power you have over me - how did you get it and in whose interests do you exercise it?"

"Would you like to... _remove_ that power?" replied Benn, with a wicked glint in his eye.

"No!" gasped the engorged Tory.


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## littlebabyjesus (Wednesday at 2:44 PM)

Apropos of not very much, my first memory of Powell is from Question Time, articulating why he supported unilateral nuclear disarmament.


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## iona (Wednesday at 2:46 PM)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Enoch felt the lust welling up inside him, foaming like the River Tiber. "I burn for you Tony, this power you have over me - how did you get it and in whose interests do you exercise it?"
> 
> "Would you like to remove that power?" replied Benn, with a wicked glint in his eye.
> 
> "No!" gasped the engorged Tory.


Can you keep going please? Reading awful erotica is kind of a hobby for me


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## elbows (Wednesday at 2:50 PM)

Dont ask where he stuck his pipe cleaner.


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## Fozzie Bear (Wednesday at 2:56 PM)

iona said:


> Can you keep going please? Reading awful erotica is kind of a hobby for me


Would love to but actually have to get stuff done these days. 

There is back catalogue here, from when I had less reponsibilities   https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/group-sex.336802/page-4#post-14017716


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## keybored (Wednesday at 3:00 PM)

AmateurAgitator said:


> He was good friends with Enoch Powell. They were both members of that ruling class club, parliament. Brothers of the bourgeois establishment.


That Aneurin Bevan married a baroness. And he wore a tie, the filthy class traitor.


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## Serge Forward (Wednesday at 3:41 PM)

Didn't Powell and Benn used to go swimming together in a river (of blood)?


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## billy_bob (Wednesday at 3:52 PM)

Serge Forward said:


> Didn't Powell and Benn used to go swimming together in a river (of blood)?


Knowing Benn's vast consumption of pints of tea and Powell's habit of holding it in to give his speeches greater urgency, it was probably full of piss too.


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## not a trot (Wednesday at 5:05 PM)

tim said:


> There were several shared platforms in the  referendum to leave the European Common Market in 1975as both were pioneer Brexitits.
> View attachment 359089
> 
> I can't see Benn in this photo but Powell is there alongside Peter Shore and Barbara Castle.



Probably out the back drinking tea from his favourite tin mug, like any proper working class geezer.


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## AmateurAgitator (Wednesday at 7:32 PM)

keybored said:


> That Aneurin Bevan married a baroness. And he wore a tie, the filthy class traitor.


He demanded that energy supplies be cut off to buildings squatted by squaddies after the war. Don't shoot the messenger.


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## Wilf (Wednesday at 8:14 PM)

And we all know what sort of pranks 'wedgie' got up to.


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## Wilf (Wednesday at 8:20 PM)

In fact, here's film of Lord Stansgate and Enoch's arrival in the afterlife:


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