# Vermont



## spawnofsatan (Nov 5, 2009)

Thinking of moving over there within the next couple of years.

Any Vermonters posting on here?


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## spring-peeper (Nov 6, 2009)

None.

I think the closest American would be D, in New York.  MissCaphat is from the Boston area, but she doesn't post much anymore.  Then it would be a tie between me in Ontario and Detroit City, from Chicago.  Haven't seen him in a while, though.


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## D (Nov 8, 2009)

Vermont's great.  Haven't been in ages, though I'll be there for a bit in January to work with collaborators there.


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## spawnofsatan (Nov 9, 2009)

Thank you for the replies, it looks like its the state for us.


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## spring-peeper (Nov 9, 2009)

It's very pretty there - I hope you enjoy it.


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## Meltingpot (Nov 9, 2009)

Home of Ben & Jerry's ice cream, if I remember rightly  A lot of American hippies, the ones who could stand the cold, migrated there in the 1970s and that's one reason the politics is fairly liberal for the US (some right wing Americans have apparently said Vermont should join Canada).

I'll take your word that it's pretty.


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## Stigmata (Nov 9, 2009)

Vermont's nice, one of their towns is named after a distant ancestor of mine.


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## spring-peeper (Nov 9, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> Vermont's nice, one of their towns is named after a distant ancestor of mine.



Which one?


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## Dr. Furface (Nov 9, 2009)

Beautiful place but can't imagine living there - bit dull I'd guess.


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## spring-peeper (Nov 9, 2009)

Dr. Furface said:


> Beautiful place but can't imagine living there - bit dull I'd guess.



Very dull!!!

I spend countless summers camping there as a child.  We would go into the towns, they don't have cities, and all we met we really nice people.

Oh - and the "towns"- horrid!!!  Large houses with nice lawns, all with the same length grass. And between the houses and road....trees!!!  All the roads are lined with trees!!!  Horror upon horror!

Then, once you stumble into the center of town, where all the businesses and government agencies are - there's a grassy spot, all nicely mowed - and, believe it or not, a band stand.  I kid you not, each town had a bandstand!  How Hollywood is that???

*sigh*

The world needs more Vermonts.


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## mhendo (Nov 10, 2009)

We have friends who live in Burlington, in the NW of the state, on Lake Champlain. We've visited them a couple of times, and we also went to Vermont for their wedding. We loved it. The whole state is beautiful, and every season has a real character of its own. Summer is sunny but not t0o hot, with lots of green everywhere, and autumn is, of course, a riot of color.

The main drawback, according to our friends who live there year-round, is winter. It's not so much that it's cold, because they don't mind that. And, like us, they also love snow, especially when you can get outside and play in it. The big problem is that winter is so long. It's basically cold six months of the year, and spring doesn't really kick in until May. Our friends said that they are pretty sick of the cold weather and the short days by mid-March.

To make things worse, in late winter and early spring, during the thaw, there's mud everywhere. The whole place is just wet and sloppy from all the water left over from winter. When we were up there a few years ago, the owners of the hotel where we stayed told us that November and April are their worst months. They call October/November "stick season" because the beautiful colored leaves have all fallen to the ground, but there's not yet any snow to make the area appealing again. And April/May is called "mud season," for the reasons described above.


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## spawnofsatan (Nov 10, 2009)

Lots of houses we've looked have "mud" rooms.  The property up there seems really cheap to a brit, but I guess heating costs in winter could be horrendous.


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## Meltingpot (Nov 10, 2009)

Alistair Cooke (a New York-based British journalist who used to present "Letter from America" for the BBC) had a daughter who lived in Vermont and who when challenged by animal rights campaigners used to use the Vermont winters as her reason for wearing a fur coat.

I agree about the winters, they do sound long; the UK's are bad enough. At the moment Burlington looks fairly mild during the daytime but I'm sure it'll get colder;

http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/USVT0033.html


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## mhendo (Nov 10, 2009)

spawnofsatan said:


> Lots of houses we've looked have "mud" rooms.  The property up there seems really cheap to a brit, but I guess heating costs in winter could be horrendous.


There are other costs to think about, too.

Vermont is a state with a relatively high level of social welfare and social services (for America, anyway). If you're of a left-liberal persuasion this is, of course, a good thing. But social welfare has to be paid for, and Vermont ranks 12th out of 50 in terms of total taxes paid, as a percentage of income. Interestingly, the state is only 31st in personal income tax, and 39th in sales and excise taxes. Much of the Vermont tax burden comes from high property tax rates.


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## spawnofsatan (Nov 10, 2009)

mhendo said:


> There are other costs to think about, too.
> 
> Vermont is a state with a relatively high level of social welfare and social services (for America, anyway). If you're of a left-liberal persuasion this is, of course, a good thing. But social welfare has to be paid for, and Vermont ranks 12th out of 50 in terms of total taxes paid, as a percentage of income. Interestingly, the state is only 31st in personal income tax, and 39th in sales and excise taxes. Much of the Vermont tax burden comes from high property tax rates.



A lot of the real estate sites we've looked at list yearly property tax rates. if the exchange rate stays roughly as it is, it's not much more (on certain properties) than what I pay as council tax in the UK.

We can afford to buy outright up to a $300000 ish limit, so a mortgage isn't a worry.


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## Stigmata (Nov 10, 2009)

spring-peeper said:


> Which one?



Brattleborough. Brattle is my mum's maiden name, and it's pretty bloody obscure and they all come from one tiny village in Kent.


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi. Just noticed this thread randomly. 
So, did you move to VT, spawnofsatan? You probably know this already, but a train route from Hartford, CT, up to Springfield, MA, eventually spanning up to Burlington and down to NYC is being created. I think this is a very good thing, and that it will renew the economy, especially in western MA, which is one of my favorite places in the US that I was going to suggest to you as it has a bit more going on than VT, and is slightly warmer, while still maintaining that quaint, middle of nowhere feeling. Both areas are excellent for ones mental health and quality of life IMO. People seem to feel very free to express themselves and live how they want to live. If you're interested (and see this post) feel free to ask me for more info.


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 2, 2010)

I live in Boston. No big cities in Vermont and is pretty far from any big cities. But if you like nature, skiing, camping, hiking, etc, then it's the place for you!


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 2, 2010)

You live in Nantucket, it says!

I lived on Nantucket for a while too.


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 2, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> You live in Nantucket, it says!
> 
> I lived on Nantucket for a while too.



lol, that's just a play on "I once met a man from Nantucket" limerick, been the quote for awhile--ya! I just moved to Davis Square about a month ago from Florida and am having a fabulous time  I'm remembering from my days in London how much I love to fall asleep on trains at 5am tho <----joke


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 2, 2010)

Ah, I see.

Well, welcome to Ma/Boston. I now live about 1 hr north of the city, on the seacoast, right below NH. Its nice! Davis square is in cambridge right?


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 2, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> Well, welcome to Ma/Boston. I now live about 1 hr north of the city, on the seacoast, right below NH. Its nice! Davis square is in cambridge right?



Cheers  It's in Somerville which is just north of Cambridge. Sandwiched between Davis, Ball, and Porter Sq. Chiller than Cambridge imo but still off the Red Line just south of Alewife.

NH--live free or die


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 2, 2010)

semi_furious lives in Vermont, but she doesn't post here much.


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 2, 2010)

Rainingstairs said:


> Cheers  It's in Somerville which is just north of Cambridge. Sandwiched between Davis, Ball, and Porter Sq. Chiller than Cambridge imo but still off the Red Line just south of Alewife.
> 
> NH--live free or die



Ah, right, Summahville. I get my squares mixed up. 

Live Free or Die! Makes me think : Jeez, guys, take yourselves too seriously much?  I just see NH as a place to go buy cheap, tax free goods.  

So, were you familiar with the area before you moved up here?


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 2, 2010)

We're looking at the Brattleboro/bellows falls area in Vermont and also the concord/Manchester area of NH.

Our main worry is finding  jobs


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 3, 2010)

Hi 

Do you mind me asking what you do? 
I would reccommend the Portsmouth, NH area for another great place to look for jobs/housing. The thing about NH, though, is that wages tend to be lower. As I said, I live right on the border, but have always ended up working in MA because of that. 
You may find that, for example, living in NH or VT and commuting to MA might be the best deal. NH has lower taxes iirc. 
If you end up finding a job in Boston, there are a many commuter options all the way up and down the coasts, probably all the way up to Maine.


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 3, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> Ah, right, Summahville. I get my squares mixed up.
> 
> Live Free or Die! Makes me think : Jeez, guys, take yourselves too seriously much?  I just see NH as a place to go buy cheap, tax free goods.
> 
> So, were you familiar with the area before you moved up here?



lol yes. we were contemplating driving out to NH for our tv but then ended up getting it online instead---was definitely an option on the plate though! I like New Hampshirians (is that right? "New Hampshirians? lol) Seems they take their partying as serious as their freedom 

I was kinda familiar with the area, visited Beantown half a dozen times, camped in Vermont, climbed a mountain in NH etc. and NYC is of course, a hop/skip away


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 3, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> Hi. Just noticed this thread randomly.
> So, did you move to VT, spawnofsatan? You probably know this already, but a train route from Hartford, CT, up to Springfield, MA, eventually spanning up to Burlington and down to NYC is being created. I think this is a very good thing, and that it will renew the economy, especially in western MA, which is one of my favorite places in the US that I was going to suggest to you as it has a bit more going on than VT, and is slightly warmer, while still maintaining that quaint, middle of nowhere feeling. Both areas are excellent for ones mental health and quality of life IMO. People seem to feel very free to express themselves and live how they want to live. If you're interested (and see this post) feel free to ask me for more info.



Yes, Western Mass is amazing! My boyfriend grew up in Turner's Falls. It seems, if your looking for a good blend of nature and normal people (read: laid back hippy college professors who grow pot next to their geraniums and carrots, not toothless hillbilly's like you'll find in upstate New York) Western Mass was a good middle ground.


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 3, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> Hi
> 
> Do you mind me asking what you do?



Spawn, this is actually a pretty big deal these days as unemployment is pretty bad. Me for example, I work in a pretty specialized field that is supposedly in "high demand" have only had one bite so far in terms of jobs since I started applying about 2.5 weeks ago (I've been applying to about 2-5 jobs a day). My bartender friend also who has four years experience is unemployed. The stigma of "joblessness" just hasn't apllied here lately just cause of the way things have been.


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 3, 2010)

Well Mrs spawn was publishing editor at Esquire in NYC, so she has quite a few contacts. Myself, i've done everything from Coal miner, park ranger, builder. I'm willling to have a go at anything (minimum wage jobs included)

The last few years i've been caring for my mum( who passed away on dec 29th)

So yeah jobs are a big worry as is health care, we have 2yr old identical twins.


We'll be living with the in laws in NC for a while, so won't move till at least one of us can find work.


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## D (Feb 3, 2010)

I would also like to put in a good word for the Berkshires (Western Mass), where I am headed RIGHT THIS SECOND (posting from the Greyhound bus!).

Manchester, NH - I've only been there once, but ... - is a kinda grim, post-industrial New England town.  Rural VT wins over Manchester in my book.


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 3, 2010)

Err we're also looking at small towns near Sedona AZ, that are commutable to phoenix, the property taxes are so much lower and there seem to be more job opportunites for the both of us.

Plus I get a pool in my backyard!

Houses we've been looking at in that area, taxes average at $1700

Still once we move to NC to stay with the in-laws, we'll take a look at both areas and see which comes up best for us.


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 4, 2010)

Really? Awww. No! 
Well, it probably is very nice out there in AZ. 
I hope it works out well either way, and sorry about your mother.
D, have fun in the Berkshires!


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 4, 2010)

spawnofsatan said:


> Err we're also looking at small towns near Sedona AZ, that are commutable to phoenix, the property taxes are so much lower and there seem to be more job opportunites for the both of us.
> 
> Plus I get a pool in my backyard!
> 
> ...



I think Sedona's about 120 miles from Phoenix; a bit of a long commute. From what I can recall of Sedona, you'd be more likely to find cheaper real estate in the Phoenix area than you would in Sedona.

A friend of mine has been looking into Phoenix RE, and is actually down there now looking at property. After the economic troubles, the property there is really cheap.


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 4, 2010)

JC, good point, but Sedona is new age central, I reckon I could blag it at as (a real English druid...)  

As for phoenix, we looked at a place callled Anthem, saw loads of gorgeous houses, dirt cheap, 5 bedroom 3 bath, pool etc starting at $167k!

But they all seemed to be in gated community type areas, which i'm not keen on.

Never lived on one mind.


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 4, 2010)

Hmm. Gated communities. I don't think I could live in one either. One thing to keep in mind is that they can be really restrictive as far as what you do on or to your property. On the plus side, you can let your kids play and roam freely without worrying about cars zooming through the neighborhood, etc.


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 4, 2010)

Another factor when deciding where to live is the local school system. You may know this already, but the quality of public schools vary greatly from community to community, depending on how much funding they get (through taxes, etc)...you may end up choosing a place where you pay a bit more in taxes but your kids get a better education.


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 4, 2010)

Rainingstairs said:


> Yes, Western Mass is amazing! My boyfriend grew up in Turner's Falls. It seems, if your looking for a good blend of nature and normal people (read: laid back hippy college professors who grow pot next to their geraniums and carrots, not toothless hillbilly's like you'll find in upstate New York) Western Mass was a good middle ground.



Yeah, its the best. Every time I go there, on the way home I get all depressed. It's like "back to reality" even though where I live is pretty great too.
So what are some of your favorite places so far in the Boston area?


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 4, 2010)

We thought Fitchburg(sp) had some amazinzing houses dirt cheap, then we did some research and learnt why...


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## D (Feb 4, 2010)

Sedona is a gorgeous place.  Phoenix is a giant strip mall/overdeveloped desert, but I had a great time visiting the last time I was there (I have a good friend from university who lives there with her husband and baby - she's a tattooed public defender who sings and competes in rollerderby in her spare time).


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 4, 2010)

spawnofsatan said:


> We thought Fitchburg(sp) had some amazinzing houses dirt cheap, then we did some research and learnt why...



I'm assuming you mean Fitchburg, MA? 
However, a lot of the south shore of Boston is very nice, and if you live in Hull or Quincy, or somewhere in that area you can catch a short commuter ferry right to downtown Boston. How cool is that?


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 4, 2010)

D said:


> Sedona is a gorgeous place.  Phoenix is a giant strip mall/overdeveloped desert, but I had a great time visiting the last time I was there (I have a good friend from university who lives there with her husband and baby - she's a tattooed public defender who sings and competes in rollerderby in her spare time).



Is AZ overly religous?

I'm only asking because i'm a COS member and have a large Baphomet sigil tattooed on my back.

Don't want other kids parents thinking i'll eat their children and ostracizing our kids.

I got confused earlier, I meant Sedona isn't too bad a commute to Flagstaff, not phoenix


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 4, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> I'm assuming you mean Fitchburg, MA?
> However, a lot of the south shore of Boston is very nice, and if you live in Hull or Quincy, or somewhere in that area you can catch a short commuter ferry right to downtown Boston. How cool is that?



Worth looking into, thank you!


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 4, 2010)

spawnofsatan said:


> But they all seemed to be in gated community type areas, which i'm not keen on.
> 
> Never lived on one mind.



Tbh, I think Phoenix might be a bit of a weird place. I haven't spent loads of time there; it's just an impression.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Feb 4, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Tbh, I think Phoenix might be a bit of a weird place. I haven't spent loads of time there; it's just an impression.



I can vouch for that weirdness.  

I went there several years ago for an archery thing.  I ended up partying with a group of fencers.  Their idea of a party was 5 kegs and a table with a candlebra in the center.  They took turns drinking a beer and having a go at putting out candles with a foil.  I have to admit it was one of the best parties I'd ever been to!


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 4, 2010)

spawnofsatan said:


> Worth looking into, thank you!



You're welcome. I've been on it a few times. It's a gorgeous way to start the day, sailing into Boston Harbor. And, during winter people just hole up inside, where they serve coffee, tea, and breakfast stuff. IIRC they even do beer
and wine for the evening commute.


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 5, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> You're welcome. I've been on it a few times. It's a gorgeous way to start the day, sailing into Boston Harbor. And, during winter people just hole up inside, where they serve coffee, tea, and breakfast stuff. IIRC they even do beer
> and wine for the evening commute.



Ahem, it's the USA, they don't have beer(apart from the odd microbrewery)

Nah, once all the probates sorted and the houses are sold, I can't wait to move over there.

I like most of the Americans I met. They'll just have to get used to the Brit sense of humour... 

It will be harder for my wife, she loves it over here.

We really think this is the right move to make.

Quite happy to chat about cultural differences  and lifestyle.


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 5, 2010)

Well, if you move to New England at least, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the ever-expanding beer and wine selection! Yes, we're finally coming out of the dark ages as far as alcoholic bevs.
I think so, anyway.


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 5, 2010)

D said:


> I would also like to put in a good word for the Berkshires (Western Mass), where I am headed RIGHT THIS SECOND (posting from the Greyhound bus!).
> 
> Manchester, NH - I've only been there once, but ... - is a kinda grim, post-industrial New England town.  Rural VT wins over Manchester in my book.



mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Berkshire Brewery is the word! They made me polish off a whole growler before I climbed Mt. Monadnock


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 5, 2010)

Culture question#1  What is a growler?


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## Yuwipi Woman (Feb 5, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> Well, if you move to New England at least, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the ever-expanding beer and wine selection! Yes, we're finally coming out of the dark ages as far as alcoholic bevs.
> I think so, anyway.



Samual Adams is drinkable and Boston based, I believe.


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 5, 2010)

I was surprised when I first went over, just how good some of the local beers are, not that i'll get much drinking done.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Feb 5, 2010)

spawnofsatan said:


> I was surprised when I first went over, just how good some of the local beers are, not that i'll get much drinking done.



We don't share the good stuff with 'ferners.


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 5, 2010)

Cheeky colonials.... 

My wife is American and loves the real ale over here, so she's always steered me right.


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 5, 2010)

a growler.


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 6, 2010)

Thak looks to be about 3 and a half pints?


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 6, 2010)

64 oz....
So, equal to about 5 and 1\2 12 oz bottles of beer. That is a lot if beer to drink, especially right before climbing a mtn!


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 8, 2010)

Sorry, but we think we've found our dream home in AZ, so this time next year we'll be gone!


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## spring-peeper (Feb 8, 2010)

spawnofsatan said:


> Sorry, but we think we've found our dream home in AZ, so this time next year we'll be gone!



Having followed all this, what is your dream house like?


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 8, 2010)

This one, though it will probably be off the market by the time we move


http://www.arizonaluxuryhomeguide.c...RAWBERRY-Drive-Queen-Creek-AZ-RES_Detail.aspx

Would have liked more land though, but its on the outskirts of Phoenix, so job prospects are good.

It has 3 pools!


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 15, 2010)

Wow, that's ridiculously cheap, isn't it? 
I don't think there's 3 pools though. Why aren't there pics of the pool or outdoor areas?


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 15, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> Wow, that's ridiculously cheap, isn't it?
> I don't think there's 3 pools though. Why aren't there pics of the pool or outdoor areas?



Search on the mls# loads more pics 

Taxes are way lower too.


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 24, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> 64 oz....
> So, equal to about 5 and 1\2 12 oz bottles of beer. That is a lot if beer to drink, especially right before climbing a mtn!



lol yes  especially when a lot of the local brews run 8-11% alcohol. As well, good luck in AZ spawn, it's also a lovely albeit completely different place.


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## goldenecitrone (Feb 24, 2010)

Miss Caphat said:


> a growler.



Another word that doesn't travel so well.


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 25, 2010)

We won't be moving this year, so there is still a lot of research to be done.


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 25, 2010)

*ave a faaag luv!*

speaking of words that don't travel so well, leave this one at home


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 25, 2010)

So I can't bum a fag?


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 25, 2010)

So I can't ask to bum a fag, well I never!


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## goldenecitrone (Feb 25, 2010)

spawnofsatan said:


> So I can't ask to bum a fag, well I never!



And you can't have a sore fanny after a long bike ride.


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## Miss Caphat (Feb 25, 2010)

Sure, you can "bum" a fag, as long as it's ok with your wife!


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## spawnofsatan (Feb 25, 2010)

It gets worse, the house we like (stepford wife suburbian hell) has a large mormon influence.

I have a large back tattoo of this!

http://www.ratemyink.com/images/ul/480/Sigil-of-the-Baphomet-tattoo-48034.jpeg


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## Rainingstairs (Feb 28, 2010)

spawnofsatan said:


> It gets worse, the house we like (stepford wife suburbian hell) has a large mormon influence.
> 
> I have a large back tattoo of this!
> 
> http://www.ratemyink.com/images/ul/480/Sigil-of-the-Baphomet-tattoo-48034.jpeg



don't move to suburban hell! i guess freaking out the locals would be fun but it might get old after a while


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## spawnofsatan (Mar 1, 2010)

We still love New England, it's just the lack of jobs and the high property taxes and heating bills that worry us.


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