# Horse Meat found in Tesco Beefburgers



## Ponyutd (Jan 15, 2013)

Horsemeat found in burgers on sale in Aldi, Dunnes Stores, Iceland, Lidl and Tesco


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21034942#TWEET527547


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## Ponyutd (Jan 15, 2013)

The FSAI said the meat came from two processing plants in Ireland, Liffey Meats and Silvercrest Foods, and the Dalepak Hambleton plant in Yorkshire.
It said they posed no health risk.


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## Thimble Queen (Jan 15, 2013)

grim but unsurprising


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 15, 2013)

Not that grim really, although would be nice if they were labled as such.


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## Left (Jan 15, 2013)

What's wrong with horsemeat?


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## idumea (Jan 15, 2013)

Nay


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## xenon (Jan 15, 2013)

It's nay laughing matter. At least it's a stable supply...


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## Shirl (Jan 15, 2013)

Is it legal to use horse meat in british burgers?


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## weltweit (Jan 15, 2013)

Left said:


> What's wrong with horsemeat?


 
I am not going to eat Trigger!! ffs


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## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2013)

I'd be more surprised if they found beef


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## magneze (Jan 15, 2013)

I love that this thread is posted by Ponyutd.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2013)

weltweit said:


> I am not going to eat Trigger!! ffs


That'd be cannibalism, like eating delboy


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## weltweit (Jan 15, 2013)

I pay a little more for Aberdeen Angus Burgers atm, if there is horse in em I will eat my hat!


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## Left (Jan 15, 2013)

Poor cows


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## clicker (Jan 15, 2013)

Shergar and fries?


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## xenon (Jan 15, 2013)

idumea said:


> Nay



Dam, I was Pipped at the post...


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## snadge (Jan 15, 2013)

Horse meat is extremely nice but burgers are made of shite anyways.


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## weltweit (Jan 15, 2013)

For inspectors to be able to find horse meat in burgers, when they probably only tested a sample, suggests that it is probably rife. I will stick to my Aberdeen Angus I think.


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## Ax^ (Jan 15, 2013)

it allowed a percentage of horse meat in loads of meat products ffs

anyone like salami


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## Ponyutd (Jan 15, 2013)

Fetlocks?...no it's all true.


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## pinkmonkey (Jan 15, 2013)

Shirl said:


> Is it legal to use horse meat in british burgers?


I know we don't eat them (obviously), but you'd be surprised how much horse leather is used in footwear. Those flexible soft leather loafers from Spain that you see advertised in the back of the Sunday Supplements - they're horse leather.


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## pinkmonkey (Jan 15, 2013)

Ax^ said:


> it allowed a percentage of horse meat in loads of meat products ffs
> 
> anyone like salami


Reminds me of my dad, shopping in Aldi, looking at the Chorizo.  Old dear comes up to him and whispers, 'you know that's donkey don't you?' And taps her nose.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2013)

Better donkey than soylent green


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## Firky (Jan 15, 2013)

Nag them and they'll exchange them for you.


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## dessiato (Jan 15, 2013)

I rather like horse meat. It tastes good, and, I am told, is relatively healthy.


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## mentalchik (Jan 15, 2013)

did this news come straight from the horses mouth ?


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## Ax^ (Jan 15, 2013)

dessiato said:


> I rather like horse meat. It tastes good, and, I am told, is relatively healthy.



Yes but you also find you're sister attractive

So you track history of being a wrongun must be brought into consideration..


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## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2013)

dessiato said:


> I rather like horse meat. It tastes good, and, I am told, is relatively healthy.


Or it was relatively healthy till it visited the abbatoir


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## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2013)

Ax^ said:


> Yes but you also find you're sister attractive
> 
> So you track history of being a wrongun must be brought into consideration..


how dare you. His sister's a fine young filly.


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## Firky (Jan 15, 2013)

Quite disappointed in Urban, only a handful of puns so far.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 15, 2013)

Left said:


> What's wrong with horsemeat?


 
It's really chewy.


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## Firky (Jan 15, 2013)

weltweit said:


> For inspectors to be able to find horse meat in burgers, when they probably only tested a sample, suggests that it is probably rife. I will stick to my Aberdeen Angus I think.


 
Buy burgers from the butchers, they make them themselves. Or make your own.


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## dessiato (Jan 15, 2013)

Ax^ said:


> Yes but you also find you're sister attractive
> 
> So you track history of being a wrongun must be brought into consideration..


But I can correctly use "your" and "you're"!


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## Firky (Jan 15, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's really chewy.


 
Only if it is cooked wrong. It is a very lean meat so should not be overcooked.


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## binka (Jan 15, 2013)

firky said:


> Buy burgers from the butchers, they make them themselves.


never trust a butcher, i learnt that from experience.

i buy a microwave burger from aldi for my dinner every day at work. 79p each and iirc 85% beef - always wondered what the rest of it was


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## Ax^ (Jan 15, 2013)

dessiato said:


> But I can correctly use "your" and "you're"!


 
*shrugs*

i'd explain but after more than 6000 post you think people would start catching on


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## mentalchik (Jan 15, 2013)

well this thread seems to be trotting along nicely now.............


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## brogdale (Jan 15, 2013)

mentalchik said:


> well this thread seems to be trotting along nicely now.............


 
Whoa there...enough already....


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## Ax^ (Jan 15, 2013)

na na never na na nomore


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## Firky (Jan 15, 2013)

binka said:


> never trust a butcher, i learnt that from experience.


 
Do I really want to know?


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## Firky (Jan 15, 2013)

mentalchik said:


> well this thread seems to be trotting along nicely now.............


 
Need to rein it in a bit.


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## shagnasty (Jan 15, 2013)

weltweit said:


> I am not going to eat Trigger!! ffs


If it's ireland it's probably poor old shergar


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## Divisive Cotton (Jan 15, 2013)

Carnivores are so precious aren't they

Cow, pig, horse - fuck 'em


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## Firky (Jan 15, 2013)

Divisive Cotton said:


> Carnivores are so precious aren't they
> 
> Cow, pig, horse - fuck 'em


 
As I type thing I am eating 1/2 a pound of wildboar. 

Least that is what the butcher told me it was. Binka has me worried.


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## pogofish (Jan 15, 2013)

Left said:


> What's wrong with horsemeat?



Nothing wrong with it, just that its not considered fit for human consumption under current UK food regs, so any producer using it will likely be playing fast & loose with the food/food safety regs in all sorts of other ways.

And yes, the FSA has been a little bit exercised over the potential for horse meat in certain imported products like salamis & other cured sausage which traditionally can use horsemeat as an ingredient in their home markets but IIRC, the problem has got less in recent years as yhe UK market for imported meat products has grown to the point where most major producers now find it worthwhile to maintain UK-specific lines that are compliant with our regs.


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## twentythreedom (Jan 15, 2013)




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## mrsfran (Jan 15, 2013)

firky said:


> Quite disappointed in Urban, only a handful of puns so far.


 
Alright, no need to nag.


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## IC3D (Jan 15, 2013)

They better rein this in or people will hoof it to Aldi


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## bignose1 (Jan 15, 2013)

xenon said:


> It's nay laughing matter. At least it's a stable supply...


Im saddled with a load of Tesco burgers....apparently they came from a mane supplier......


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## elbows (Jan 15, 2013)




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## bignose1 (Jan 15, 2013)

Theyve taken the mulesli off the shelves now........


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## bignose1 (Jan 15, 2013)

Its gonna stirrup some shit....


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## ymu (Jan 15, 2013)

_*gives bignose a withering look*_


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## brogdale (Jan 15, 2013)

Tesco CEO bridles with anger....


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## mrs quoad (Jan 15, 2013)

I tried one, and I'm sure it made me ill. In no time flat, I was feeling a little hoarse.


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## bi0boy (Jan 15, 2013)

My local good butcher got taken over by my local not-so-good butcher so now I don't have any local butchers that I trust more than Waitrose


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## Favelado (Jan 15, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> My local good butcher got taken over by my local not-so-good butcher so now I don't have any local butchers that I trust more than Waitrose


 
Oh that's _awful. _We're all here for you in this moment of need.


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## Poot (Jan 15, 2013)

I only popped in for some icing shergar and a redrum baba.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 15, 2013)

Poot said:


> I only popped in for some icing shergar and a redrum baba.


 

I've seen the burgers brother, it is murder


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## Idaho (Jan 15, 2013)

Can we get back to the mane topic please?


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## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2013)

Idaho said:


> Can we get back to the mane topic please?


Don't be so fucking blinkered. It's a pity we're still saddled with you.


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## Fuchs66 (Jan 15, 2013)

Not bothered about a bit of horsemeat in a burger it's quite tasty, I think some people might be more than a bit pissed off to find they've got pork in them aswell.


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## bignose1 (Jan 15, 2013)

I got some of those horse burgers......................................and their off!


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## hipipol (Jan 15, 2013)

twas Tesco what topped Shergar then


Knew he turn up sometime


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## bignose1 (Jan 15, 2013)

Equusty in Tesco has fallen....according to the hoofsty 100...and are looking for a bale out


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## Favelado (Jan 15, 2013)

This is a load of pony.


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## Mephitic (Jan 15, 2013)

As a cheerful  aside, i went to college with a geezer who was a butchers delivery boy of a weekend. He told me once (when he was drunk) that he'd often have a wank into the mince prior to making his deliveries.

It put me off pies for fucking ages.


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## bignose1 (Jan 15, 2013)

Favelado said:


> This is a load of pony.


Nah I read an arkle about it in the FT


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## bignose1 (Jan 15, 2013)

Mephitic said:


> As a cheerful aside, i went to college with a geezer who was a butchers delivery boy of a weekend. He told me once (when he was drunk) that he'd often have a wank into the mince prior to making his deliveries.
> 
> It put me off pies for fucking ages.


Spaghetti bollocknaise


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 15, 2013)

I'll take it as read. Rum deal.


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## RaverDrew (Jan 15, 2013)




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## pogofish (Jan 15, 2013)




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## mrs quoad (Jan 15, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> My local good butcher got taken over by my local not-so-good butcher so now I don't have any local butchers that I trust more than Waitrose


You're in Cam?

You know that butcher, as in urban poster butcher, is a butcher in Cam?

I'd trust him a fuckton more than I'd trust waitrose! And then some.


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 15, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> I got some of those horse burgers......................................and their off!


 
Will be telling this for the next few days.


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## youngian (Jan 15, 2013)

Hope the meat comes from the old nags that left me £40 light at Kempton Park


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## elbows (Jan 15, 2013)




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## Favelado (Jan 15, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Nah I read an arkle about it in the FT


 
I'm off. This is a mare.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 15, 2013)

At least you have stable food source.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 15, 2013)

This thread's moooving along nicely.


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## teqniq (Jan 15, 2013)

Ponyutd said:


> The FSAI said the meat came from two processing plants in Ireland, Liffey Meats and Silvercrest Foods, and the Dalepak Hambleton plant in Yorkshire.
> It said they posed no health risk.


 
To be sure now neigh lad, surely you jest.


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## brogdale (Jan 15, 2013)

Idaho said:


> Can we get back to the mane topic please?


 
I'm not certain, but didn't you really mean to say....Can't...er...we get back to the mane....?


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## DexterTCN (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm not willing to make a moral judgement until I do a taste test, frankly.


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## bi0boy (Jan 15, 2013)

mrs quoad said:


> You know that butcher, as in urban poster butcher, is a butcher in Cam?


 
Really? 

You'll tell me he's taken over the Burleigh Street one next.


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## brogdale (Jan 15, 2013)

Tesco's share price; knackered.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 15, 2013)

Has anyone got some lurking in their freezer? in London? Want to try them


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## Favelado (Jan 15, 2013)

France is only 50 quid away.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 16, 2013)

Indeed.
That's why I was asking if anyone had any in their freezer.
I will give 50p to the server if anyone can get any


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## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

Prince Charles does not know what the fuss is about, he often eats a horse.


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## teqniq (Jan 16, 2013)




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## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

firky said:


> Prince Charles does not know what the fuss is about, he often eats a horse.


 
Since I can't like my own posts I am going to quote it instead.


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## weltweit (Jan 16, 2013)

According to the internetz

The FDA approves 10 rat droppings per 8 pounds of processed foods.

Dirty dirty Americans!


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## DexterTCN (Jan 16, 2013)

Favelado said:


> France is only 50 quid away.


There's a Tesco in France?


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## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

That's an offal joke.


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## weltweit (Jan 16, 2013)

In one Tesco beefburger it was found to be 29% horse meat.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 16, 2013)

Is that all?


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## weltweit (Jan 16, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Is that all?


 
Somehow somewhere someone butchered a horse and included it in a beef delivery... in fact they probably did it a lot of times ...


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## Frances Lengel (Jan 16, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Somehow somewhere someone butchered a horse and included it in a beef delivery... in fact they probably did it a lot of times ...


 
And what?

It's all edible.


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## barney_pig (Jan 16, 2013)

Was in tesco yesterday afternoon, all the processed meat in the freezers was missing, we thought there was a freezer breakdown, but know better now. Daughter felt sick. Son (vegetarian) was smug.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

default setting for vegetarians with therir rank farts and their vegetables


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## danny la rouge (Jan 16, 2013)

weltweit said:


> In one Tesco beefburger it was found to be 29% horse meat.


That's the thing, isn't it?  It isn't some processing mistake.  It isn't like a little bit of sesame seed got into them.  They were nearly 30% the wrong thing.  And it was an ingredient that isn't in use in these islands, so if they're capable of doing that, what else do they do?


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## chilango (Jan 16, 2013)

Mmm. Horse. I've missed it since I moved back. I wish you could just buy it here. We used to have a specialist horse butchers in our local market in Milan. Up in the mountains donkey stew was the local dish. Mmm.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> That's the thing, isn't it? It isn't some processing mistake. It isn't like a little bit of sesame seed got into them. They were nearly 30% the wrong thing. And it was an ingredient that isn't in use in these islands, so if they're capable of doing that, what else do they do?


 

ritual satanic abuse probably


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## ericjarvis (Jan 16, 2013)

chilango said:


> Mmm. Horse. I've missed it since I moved back. I wish you could just buy it here. We used to have a specialist horse butchers in our local market in Milan. Up in the mountains donkey stew was the local dish. Mmm.


 
Donkey is really nice. Had some fantastic Spanish donkey sausages a couple of years ago.

I draw the line at primates, or any endangered species... and cats. Eating cats would be fundamentally wrong as they are clearly top of the food chain.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

I bet you've had some fantastic donkey sausage etc


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## dylans (Jan 16, 2013)

How does a horse accidentally fall into a hamburger? I mean, its a fucking horse, its not an insect that snuck in under the machinery. Its a fucking huge animal.  Was it like a really ugly horse that they mistook for a cow?


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

I imagine at the hamburger factory they don't process the animal from A to B(urger), they just buy in loads of meat from the animal factory (slaughterhouse). Hence loads of anonymouse meat produce comes in and they make it into burgers. you could see how loads of horses might accidentally get into the mix


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## rubbershoes (Jan 16, 2013)

Has anyone mentioned that Tesco are the mane offender?


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## bignose1 (Jan 16, 2013)

weltweit said:


> In one Tesco beefburger it was found to be 29% horse meat.


Reading that made me 'jump'...its not your 'fault' though....but its 'clearound' here that wel'l be awaiting the 'horse trial' relating to this...at the Whoald Neighley no doubt. Tesco so far have 'refused' to answer.But clearly an 'offence' has been commited.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2013)

Seriously, who gives a fuck? What a stupid non story this is. If you're happy to eat a cow you should be happy to eat a fucking horse.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> you could see how loads of horses might accidentally get into the mix


If so, then the procedures really aren't very good.  If loads of an animal not eaten by humans in these islands can easily get into the mix without being noticed, then I'd suggest something is fundamentally wrong with the way things are done.  This isn't the kind of mistake that we go "oh well" to; it's fundamental.

I'm not being sentimental here, by the way.  I don't see why people think it's OK to eat a cow but not a horse. That's not the point; the point is that if something the size of a horse can slip through the net into the human food chain, the net is badly calibrated.

"What are we slaughtering today?  Is it food, or something else?"


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## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2013)

chilango said:


> Mmm. Horse. I've missed it since I moved back. I wish you could just buy it here. We used to have a specialist horse butchers in our local market in Milan. Up in the mountains donkey stew was the local dish. Mmm.


 
yummy, i was eating donkey with pasta and horse steak in verona last year - local specialities. very good! better than shite burgers anyday. and how hard is it to make your own burger? crivvens!


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Seriously, who gives a fuck? What a stupid non story this is. If you're happy to eat a cow you should be happy to eat a fucking horse.


 

nah theres a demarcation in the minds of most people between cute/noble things that Are Not Foodz and boring things which Are Very Much Food


so puppy meat is not on. 

Me, I'll eat anything but I draw the line at dolphin cos I have the suspicion that they might be sentient. lol.


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## bignose1 (Jan 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> yummy, i was eating donkey with pasta and horse steak in verona last year - local specialities. very good! better than shite burgers anyday. and how hard is it to make your own burger? crivvens!


Dont mince yer words Mal


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> *If so, then the procedures really aren't very good.* If loads of an animal not eaten by humans in these islands can easily get into the mix without being noticed, then I'd suggest something is fundamentally wrong with the way things are done. This isn't the kind of mistake that we go "oh well" to; it's fundamental.
> 
> I'm not being sentimental here, by the way. I don't see why people think it's OK to eat a cow but not a horse. That's not the point; the point is that if something the size of a horse can slip through the net into the human food chain, the net is badly calibrated.
> 
> "What are we slaughtering today? Is it food, or something else?"


 

They hire people like me through agencies on minimum wage to do these grim jobs. Thats what happens when you deskill a process so much that your labour costs are negligble. This happens.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> nah theres a demarcation in the minds of most people between cute/noble things that Are Not Foodz and boring things which Are Very Much Food


Fuck that, food is food.

As for dolphin, I bet it would be delicious


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## bignose1 (Jan 16, 2013)

rubbershoes said:


> Has anyone mentioned that Tesco are the mane offender?


Yup.....


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## danny la rouge (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> nah theres a demarcation in the minds of most people between cute/noble things that Are Not Foodz and boring things which Are Very Much Food


Yes, there is.  But the point here is that some Food was found to be actually 30% Not Food.  What other kinds of Not Food might end up being 30% of Food?  Stuff that isn't noble or cute, like dung, wood, or metal?  Contains up to 30% plastic.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 16, 2013)

I wouldn't eat Tesco burgers again...they give me the trots.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> They hire people like me through agencies on minimum wage to do these grim jobs. Thats what happens when you deskill a process so much that your labour costs are negligble. This happens.


I know. That's the sort of thing I mean. The way things is done is wrong. Forget horse versus cow. The food production system is so bad that Food can be 30% Not Food. That's evidence of fundamental flaws. This isn't something that should be shrugged off.


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## dessiato (Jan 16, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Seriously, who gives a fuck? What a stupid non story this is. If you're happy to eat a cow you should be happy to eat a fucking horse.


 
I like horse meat and would be happy enough to eat it.



DotCommunist said:


> nah theres a demarcation in the minds of most people between cute/noble things that Are Not Foodz and boring things which Are Very Much Food
> so puppy meat is not on.
> 
> Me, I'll eat anything but I draw the line at dolphin cos I have the suspicion that they might be sentient. lol.


 
Dolphin is rather tasty too.


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## dessiato (Jan 16, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Fuck that, food is food.
> 
> As for dolphin, I bet it would be delicious


It is


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## brogdale (Jan 16, 2013)

I've a nagging feeling this story has legs...


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I wouldn't eat Tesco burgers again...they give me the trots.


 

swp?


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## brogdale (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> swp?


 
err...cross thread contamination?

Remember Abe Lincoln's advice....don't change horses mid-stream.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> swp?


 
Skid Marx


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## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Dont mince yer words Mal


 
burger off!


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## Mungy (Jan 16, 2013)

i went to the doctors feeling a little horse, they said i was a pervert and called the police.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2013)

never had dolphin - unless it snuck into a can of tuna but had whale from norway which was bloody and beefy but pretty good.


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## bignose1 (Jan 16, 2013)

Aldi(niti)


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## bignose1 (Jan 16, 2013)

The Guardian has just commisioned a Gallup poll....


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## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2013)

i laughed myself 'horse' at that one!C


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## Ted Striker (Jan 16, 2013)

I thought of a few great horse puns but I couldn't ketamin a decent post


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 16, 2013)

Ponyutd said:


> Horsemeat found in burgers on sale in Aldi, Dunnes Stores, Iceland, *Lidl* and Tesco


 
My Lidl Pony


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## dylans (Jan 16, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Seriously, who gives a fuck? What a stupid non story this is. If you're happy to eat a cow you should be happy to eat a fucking horse.


I have no problem eating horse. In fact I have lots of times. Its quite healthy. I have also eaten lots of other things that are not considered "culturally acceptable" such as dog, camel, guinea pig etc.  Its not the meat that is the problem. Its simply that if I buy what I am told is beef in a packet that is labelled as beef then I expect to be eating a cow, not a horse, giraffe, camel or whatever else the producers decide to chuck in it. If I want to eat horse I will buy horse, not beef. Its about my right to make an informed decision about what I eat and not being lied to


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## mack (Jan 16, 2013)




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## dylans (Jan 16, 2013)

I presume they are going to simply throw out all those burgers now.Instead of wasting them they should relabel them properly as horse/beef burgers and sell em cheap. I would buy em


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## Jackobi (Jan 16, 2013)

Wow, meat actually found in Tesco burgers!


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## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I know. That's the sort of thing I mean. The way things is done is wrong. Forget horse versus cow. The food production system is so bad that Food can be 30% Not Food. That's evidence of fundamental flaws. This isn't something that should be shrugged off.


 

it's no foreskin (lips and arseholes) off my nose. Why the long face?


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## elbows (Jan 16, 2013)

Horse, Tesco and DNA are all trending on twitter in the UK at the moment.


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## butcher (Jan 16, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Really?
> 
> You'll tell me he's taken over the Burleigh Street one next.


 

No thats not me


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 16, 2013)

at last an expert arrives on the thread


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2013)

Has anyone pointed out that "hamburgers" is an anagram of "shergar bum" yet?


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## Paulbray67 (Jan 16, 2013)

Apparently horse DNA has been found in B&Q creosote......its supposed to be good over fences


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2013)

My Lidl pony.


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## editor (Jan 16, 2013)

Who'd have believed it? Dodgy meat in a cheap burger!


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## Paulbray67 (Jan 16, 2013)

My friend is in hospital with the "trots" after eating Tesco value burgers...luckily he's in a "stable" condition...


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## Paulbray67 (Jan 16, 2013)

News just breaking that Tesco's are testing their vegetarian burgers in case they are contaminated with Uniquorn!!!!!!!!!!


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## 8ball (Jan 16, 2013)

editor said:


> Who'd have believed it? Dodgy meat in a cheap burger!


 
I think some segments of the population will be equally upset about the pork.


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## JTG (Jan 16, 2013)

*Looks into thread*

*Posts same shit joke that's been made 12 times already*

*feels smug*


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## twentythreedom (Jan 16, 2013)

English Breakfast


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## Gromit (Jan 16, 2013)

So it's okay to eat cow but not horse?

Why?


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jan 16, 2013)

I'm used to eating cows ring piece, but horses ring piece? Yuk! I :-D


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 16, 2013)

Gromit said:


> So it's okay to eat cow but not horse?
> 
> Why?


 
For the same reason it's variously ok or not to eat robins and dogs and cucumbers and elephants and apples and humans.


----------



## stuff_it (Jan 16, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I know. That's the sort of thing I mean. The way things is done is wrong. Forget horse versus cow. The food production system is so bad that Food can be 30% Not Food. That's evidence of fundamental flaws. This isn't something that should be shrugged off.


It is food though, it's horse.



bi0boy said:


> For the same reason it's variously ok or not to eat robins and dogs and cucumbers and elephants and apples and humans.


Apples and cucumbers are food. As are (if you eat meat) horses.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

Gromit said:


> So it's okay to eat cow but not horse?
> 
> Why?


 

get on your horse and drink your milk


----------



## Corax (Jan 16, 2013)

Three people that ate the burgers are said to be in a stable condition.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 16, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> For the same reason it's variously ok or not to eat robins and dogs and cucumbers and elephants and apples and humans.


 
I'd eat robin, provided someone else can be arsed to take the bones out.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 16, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> It is food though, it's horse.
> 
> 
> Apples and cucumbers are food. As are (if you eat meat) horses.


 
Cats, turtles and whales are food.


----------



## stuff_it (Jan 16, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Cats, turtles and whales are food.


Cats are meat eating animals and so not going to be very tasty. I understand that if you can get over the moral and ecological arguments against eating whales and turtles that they are quite tasty. Horses are vegetarian grazers and not particularly rare. I wouldn't have anything against eating horse that I don't have against eating cows, pigs etc.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 16, 2013)

Turtles even come with their own bowl for when you turn them into soup.


----------



## og ogilby (Jan 16, 2013)

Gromit said:


> So it's okay to eat cow but not horse?
> 
> Why?


The bible says it's only ok to eat meat from an animal with cloven hooves that also chews the cud.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 16, 2013)

Torygraph reporting horse found in meat at Savoy

Only a la cart, apparently.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 16, 2013)

og ogilby said:


> The bible says it's only ok to eat meat from an animal with cloven hooves that also chews the cud.


 
It's also has a daughter getting her dad drunk and shagging him, so I'd not take it to seriously as guidance on how to live your life.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> It's also has a daughter getting her dad drunk and shagging him, so I'd not take it to seriously as guidance on how to live your life.


 

theres also the heartwarming tale of how noah invented wine then passed out with his meat and two on display. Two of his thre sons entered the room backwards to cover him up, sothat they would not witness his shame. The third came in front facing and saw the old boys nakedness. Guess who The Lord cursed for impudence?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 16, 2013)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I wouldn't eat Tesco burgers again...they give me the trots.


 
Stop trying to saddle Tesco with the blame!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 16, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Stop trying to saddle Tesco with the blame!


 
You trying to stirrup trouble?


----------



## dylans (Jan 16, 2013)

Gromit said:


> So it's okay to eat cow but not horse?
> 
> Why?


That's not the issue. There is nothing wrong with eating horse. There is a problem with eating horse or any other meat unintentionally. If a food product is labelled "beef" then consumers should have a reasonable expectation and confidence that they are eating beef and not horse


This is not an issue about horse meat being bad. Its an issue about food security. If an entire species can wrongly find its way into our food then it begs the question what other crap can get in there.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> theres also the heartwarming tale of how noah invented wine then passed out with his meat and two on display. Two of his thre sons entered the room backwards to cover him up, sothat they would not witness his shame. The third came in front facing and saw the old boys nakedness. Guess who The Lord cursed for impudence?


 
"and the lord cursed him and all his descendants for putting the pictures on facebook"


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 16, 2013)

Nanker Phelge said:


> You trying to stirrup trouble?


 
I just reckon blaming Tesco is a load of old tack.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 16, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I just reckon blaming Tesco is a load of old tack.


 
Steady boy!
Now a health fear...leaves you with a hacking cough....appparently.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 16, 2013)

dylans said:


> That's not the issue. There is nothing wrong with eating horse. There is a problem with eating horse or any other meat unintentionally. If a food product is labelled "beef" then consumers should have a reasonable expectation and confidence that they are eating beef and not horse
> 
> 
> This is not an issue about horse meat being bad. Its an issue about food security. If an entire species can wrongly find its way into our food then it begs the question what other crap can get in there.



It's nothing new. Remember when people realised that pork sausages contained beef and beef sausages contained pork. 

Buy a 'value' burger don't be surprised that the beef content is lower that the 100% pure beef burger on the shelf next to it. Why else is that more expensive burger shouting about its 100%ness. The clue is there for all.


----------



## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

Was Gromit Marius?



Just twigged, I knew I recognised your posts. Couldn't think why then it just clicked.,


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

yes he was


----------



## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> yes he was


 
High five me


----------



## brogdale (Jan 16, 2013)

I wonder if this will stop people eating beef-burgers furlong?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> theres also the heartwarming tale of how noah invented wine then passed out with his meat and two on display. Two of his thre sons entered the room backwards to cover him up, sothat they would not witness his shame. The third came in front facing and saw the old boys nakedness. Guess who The Lord cursed for impudence?


 
A woman?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 16, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Steady boy!
> Now a health fear...leaves you with a hacking cough....appparently.


 
Well, with their track record I'll be steering well clear of the burgers and their thoroughbread rolls.

As for the Frankie Dittori Meat feast pizzas.....I've heard they're hard to beat!


----------



## dylans (Jan 16, 2013)

Gromit said:


> It's nothing new. Remember when people realised that pork sausages contained beef and beef sausages contained pork.
> 
> Buy a 'value' burger don't be surprised that the beef content is lower that the 100% pure beef burger on the shelf next to it. Why else is that more expensive burger shouting about its 100%ness. The clue is there for all.


Of course but it should be labelled as such. So I have no problem with Tesco selling horse burgers or combo horse/beef/pork burgers or any other crap as long as the consumer knows about it. Then we can make informed decisions about what we buy. I know for example that mechanically separated meat is rank so I don't buy it and I know not to buy it because it says msm on the label

That's not what has happened here. This product was not meant to contain horse meat. It was a surprise to Tesco. That means it was contaminated and this is what concerns me and what I mean by it being an issue of food security. Because if the product contains an entire species that the suppliers don't know about then what else does it contain


----------



## Greebo (Jan 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> theres also the heartwarming tale of how noah invented wine then passed out with his meat and two on display. Two of his thre sons entered the room backwards to cover him up, sothat they would not witness his shame. The third came in front facing and saw the old boys nakedness. Guess who The Lord cursed for impudence?


No need for me to guess, I remember this one.  It was the son who saw Noah and ran to spread the word about disgraceful behaviour instead of trying to do the right thing with as much empathy and respect as possible.  If there was a blanket or robe handy, all the first one needed to do was grab it and rush back in before anyone else had a chance to see.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 16, 2013)




----------



## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

Dalepack blacking the French like any good Englishman


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 16, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Cats, turtles and whales are food.


 
The knowledge that there are places in the world where cats are consumed as food fills me with a profound sense of joy. I doubt I could eat cat though due to them being such absolutely repulsive creatures.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 16, 2013)

firky said:


> Was Gromit Marius?
> 
> 
> 
> Just twigged, I knew I recognised your posts. Couldn't think why then it just clicked.,



Is my posting style THAT recognisable? Wow.


----------



## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)




----------



## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Is my posting style THAT recognisable? Wow.


 
More a catalogue of things you have posted rather than your style, puts you in a group of posters.


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 16, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I'd eat robin, provided someone else can be arsed to take the bones out.


Save the Quail


----------



## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 16, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> It is food though, it's horse.


Indeed, but you miss the point somewhat.  I'm _not_ arguing that lovely, big-eyed horses shouldn't be food.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 16, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed, but you miss the point somewhat. I'm _not_ arguing that lovely, big-eyed horses shouldn't be food.


 
I think we should keep the lovely big-eyed ones for little girls called Portia to ride round on and eat the nasty buggers ridden by the filth.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 16, 2013)

8ball said:


> and eat the nasty buggers ridden by the filth.


I don't think that'd be kosher.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 16, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I don't think that'd be kosher.


 
We'd wipe them down first.


----------



## ymu (Jan 16, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Seriously, who gives a fuck? What a stupid non story this is. If you're happy to eat a cow you should be happy to eat a fucking horse.


Horse meat intended for human consumption is a lot more expensive than beef. You can virtually guarantee that this stuff is not legal for human consumption in this country or most of elsewhere. Working horses get pumped full of all sorts of cheap food, antibiotics, painkillers and other drugs that we do not allow in the food chain for very good reasons.

Eating horse is not a problem. Food that is not certified fit for human consumption being found in some cheap burgers is.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 16, 2013)

ymu said:


> Working horses get pumped full of all sorts of cheap food, antibiotics, painkillers and other drugs that we do not allow in the food chain for very good reasons.


 
Does that mean 'meat horses' live a life of contented pamperment, making them possibly the most ethical meat?


----------



## ymu (Jan 16, 2013)

8ball said:


> Does that mean 'meat horses' live a life of contented pamperment, making them possibly the most ethical meat?


They're farmed as a high priced delicacy - so yes, probably. 

Apart from those Japanese cattle that get massages and beer.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 16, 2013)

ymu said:


> Apart from those Japanese cattle that get massages and beer.


 
 If they did that with humans I'd probably sign up.

Depending on how long you get pampered obv.  I'm not taking a bolt in the head for one massage and a few pints.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 16, 2013)

ymu said:


> Horse meat intended for human consumption is a lot more expensive than beef. You can virtually guarantee that this stuff is not legal for human consumption in this country or most of elsewhere. Working horses get pumped full of all sorts of cheap food, antibiotics, painkillers and other drugs that we do not allow in the food chain for very good reasons.
> 
> Eating horse is not a problem. Food that is not certified fit for human consumption being found in some cheap burgers is.



Free antibiotics, drugs and painkillers!

Where do I get some of this wonder meat?!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 16, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Free antibiotics, drugs and painkillers!
> 
> Where do I get some of this wonder meat?!


 

Tescos


----------



## ymu (Jan 16, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Free antibiotics, drugs and painkillers!
> 
> Where do I get some of this wonder meat?!


Plenty of old nags going cheap, if that's what you fancy, but when it comes to large-scale food production keeping antibiotics, in particular, out of the human food chain is something of a public health priority and what the animals have been fed on is also of some concern, particularly since BSE.

In countries where horse meat is common, old working nags are often eaten by their owners and at an individual level, the risks are small. But small risks applied to a large population often equals public health disaster, hence regulations to prevent this kind of thing happening.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 16, 2013)

Worse news to come, apparently.


----------



## Tankus (Jan 16, 2013)

Looks kosher to me....... Can't see any foreskin at all


----------



## teqniq (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes folks, and now the EDL get in on the act.... words fail me at this point.


----------



## Frumious B. (Jan 17, 2013)

Muzzies? What are they?


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

Muslims. Obvious that they would be responsible for sneaking horse and pig into beef burgers when you think about it.


----------



## moochedit (Jan 17, 2013)

*Checked my Tesco burgers in the fridge...

...and they're off.*


----------



## Apathy (Jan 17, 2013)

Worse day on Facebook ever since the Mayan apocalypse worse day on Facebook ever!


----------



## Gromit (Jan 17, 2013)

moochedit said:


> *Checked my Tesco burgers in the fridge...
> 
> ...and they're off.*



Hold your horses! Pick em up.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

Even the german dicsount supermarlets are implicated now, you've all heard of my Lidl pony right!


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> Worse news to come, apparently.


 
You know that would've been waaaay funnier if you'd said _*''Wurst*_ news to come, apparently''!


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

I can't believe people are so fucking naive in this country; there are far, far worse things than horse in your mass produced factory meat... in fact, horse is the least of your problems, in fact, if you get some horse in yer mince you should consider yourself lucky...


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

Talking of Wurst, when I was little my grandad told me that Bratwusts were made of very naughty children.

I was always scared I'g get made into a sausage.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> I can't believe people are so fucking naive in this country; there are far, far worse things than horse in your mass produced factory meat... in fact, horse is the least of your problems, in fact, if you get some horse in yer mince you should consider yourself lucky...


 
To be fair i dont think its the fact that its is horse that is the problem. Its the fact that there is meat which shouldnt be there in the burgers so is untraceable etc.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

1927 said:


> To be fair i dont think its the fact that its is horse that is the problem. Its the fact that there is meat which shouldnt be there in the burgers so is untraceable etc.


That's kinda what I'm saying...there's meat that shouldn't be there in most meat you buy from supermarkets....? Regardless of what type of animal or what part, nothing is the truth on meat labels anyway.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> That's kinda what I'm saying...there's meat that shouldn't be there in most meat you buy from supermarkets....? Regardless of what type of animal or what part, nothing is the truth on meat labels anyway.


stop being all serious and get in the other thread and post some flesh.lol


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> That's kinda what I'm saying...there's meat that shouldn't be there in most meat you buy from supermarkets....? Regardless of what type of animal or what part, nothing is the truth on meat labels anyway.


Well, yes. And that shouldn't happen. Hence studies like this to find out if it is happening.

On which point, does anyone know if this was a routine audit which came up with unusual results, or a one-off project which came up with newsworthy results?


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> And that shouldn't happen. Hence studies like this to find out if it is happening.


 
Lot's of things _shouldn't_ happen, but they do, all the time with your food...



ymu said:


> On which point, does anyone know if this was a routine audit which came up with unusual results, or a one-off project which came up with newsworthy results?


 
Neither. It's a ploy.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

1927 said:


> stop being all serious and get in the other thread and post some flesh.lol


 
This thread's more apt for the flesh.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> This thread's more apt for the flesh.


 
<resists temptation to make a joke about a discussion on horse meat and the flesh of a fine filly>


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Neither. It's a ploy.


Is this some weird kind of conspiracy theory? 



Autochthonous1 said:


> Lot's of things _shouldn't_ happen, but they do, all the time with your food...


Pretty sure everyone on this thread is aware of that, but thanks for the tip.

The question is why you think this is a non-story. Is it because you believe we shouldn't have any food safety standards, or just that we should never bother to check that they're being adhered to? Or some other reason that I can't guess at?


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> Pretty sure everyone on this thread is aware of that, but thanks for the tip.


 
I would've thought so too.



ymu said:


> The question is why you think this is a non-story. Is it because you believe we shouldn't have any food safety standards?



Fuck, can you imagine... Cameron and his cunt toff lot will have em' all eating Chav Chow Mein, the OAP's Battenberg would be soaked in arsenic, and spaghetti hoops would spell out nothing but ATOS...  No seriously...



ymu said:


> Or just that we should never bother to check that they're being adhered to?



Well, ''we'' do check. But that ''we'' isn't me or you is it, it's a ''they'' and ''they'' don't tell you what they do, or do not find.


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

Who do you think "they" is?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Fuck, can you imagine... Cameron and his cunt toff lot will have em' all eating Chav Chow Mein, the OAP's Battenberg would be soaked in arsenic, and spaghetti hoops would spell out nothing but ATOS... No seriously...


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> Who do you think "they" is?


Well, exactly.


----------



## butcher (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Talking of Wurst, when I was little my grandad told me that Bratwusts were made of very naughty children.
> 
> I was always scared I'g get made into a sausage.


 

I went on a spa and sausage tour of Germany, things just went from Bad to Wurst.

Ifankew


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Well, exactly.


 
It's a serious question. Who do you think "they" are, and how do you think government influences them?


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> It's a serious question. Who do you think "they" are, and how do you think government influences them?


Duh, they ARE the governement.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

butcher said:


> I went on a spa and sausage tour of Germany, things just went from Bad to Wurst.


 
I already did a *wurst* joke! Keep up.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm STILL scared I'll get made into a sausage btw.


----------



## cesare (Jan 17, 2013)

Reminds me of that Torchwood episode where that giant alien was being carved up whilst still alive; and its flesh was being sold into the cheap burger/sausage food chain.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 17, 2013)

1927 said:


> stop being all serious and get in the other thread and post some flesh.lol


Fuck off and post on that thread yourself, sweetie. And it had better be a picture, not just a comment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 17, 2013)

Fuck, you've made a meal of this horseflesh business


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> I'm STILL scared I'll get made into a sausage btw.


You shouldn't be concerned. There's no need to worry. You are going through the mincer, where you'll be mixed with cider and rosemary, and then your sausage meat will be forced into a casing of sir jimmy savile obe kcsg's bowels.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 17, 2013)

This is the inevitable consequence of industrialization of the food supply. The more you eat processed food, the more likely you are to eat something "dodgy".



> The big supermarkets put relentless pressure on their suppliers to give them the lowest price possible.​​The suppliers respond in turn by downgrading the quality of their meat and using cheaper ingredients.​In its classic form, a burger should be nothing more than minced beef, salt and freshly ground pepper. But in the supermarket, even a premium burger has to contain only 80 per cent of the meat named in the title, usually beef or chicken. Burgers are particularly vulnerable to such downgrading because they are made of processed meat, which dramatically widens the scope for adulteration compared to, say, a chicken breast or a piece of steak. Indeed, the process of mincing hides a multitude of sins.​The rest can be made up of assorted additives, fat and soya protein to bulk out the mixture. ​When it comes to economy burgers (like those tested from the four major chains by the Irish Food Authority’s horse meat investigation), just 59 per cent of content needs to be meat.​Even this 59 per cent *is allowed to include the unsavoury-sounding ‘mechanically recovered meat’ (MRM), which is little more than a pink slurry produced by grinding every last remnant from the animal’s carcass under high pressure. *​Although if this substance is added to the cheap and uncheerful mix, it would have to be labelled.​*Until recently, MRM was allowed to contain even the spinal column of cows, though this was finally banned after concern that such a source could be passing on BSE to humans*. Yet the quality remains poor.​​​


​http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-secret-chill-cabinets.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

(Apols for the link to the Daily Fail, but Joanna Blythman is a decent food writer, and has written a lot of stuff about supermarkets and and industrial production of food.)


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

The Mail has a lot of good articles. There's no more need to apologise for linking to the Mail when they've got a good one out than there is to defend the Guardian when they've (yet again) run a shit one. William of Walworth


----------



## Badgers (Jan 17, 2013)

I am gonna write a letter


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Jan 17, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Apols for the link to the Daily Fail, but Joanna Blythman is a decent food writer, and has written a lot of stuff about supermarkets and and industrial production of food.)


 
T'is tru dat. Surprised she's in the Snail. Yep, Blythman will tell you things that churn your stomach in more ways than one and tell ya things that'll leave bitter taste in your mouth.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 17, 2013)

To eat or not to eat? That is equestrian.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 17, 2013)

Nanker Phelge said:


> To eat or not to eat? That is equestrian.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 17, 2013)

Are Tesco able to handle bad publicity?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 17, 2013)

Ax^ said:


> it allowed a percentage of horse meat in loads of meat products ffs
> 
> anyone like salami


 
I just do not understand why they do these things to innocent animals... or children

Fairy hearts, yum yum


----------



## moochedit (Jan 17, 2013)

Better not eat them, or you'll get a dose of 'the trots".


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 17, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Are Tesco able to handle bad publicity?


They've taken out full page adverts in all the newspapers today to say sorry. So they must be worried. (In fact, their US operation Fresh 'n Easy is on the rocks, and their euro operation isn't going to plan either. I wonder whether they've peaked in terms of their power/dominance?)


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 17, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> T'is tru dat. Surprised she's in the Snail. Yep, Blythman will tell you things that churn your stomach in more ways than one and tell ya things that'll leave bitter taste in your mouth.


I read her book "Shopped" which was pretty good. She's done a load more in a similar vein: http://www.joannablythmanwriting.com/Joanna_Blythman_Writing/Books.html


----------



## brogdale (Jan 17, 2013)

Looks like this story has run its course now?


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 17, 2013)

I was in Tescos near me.....the big new fucker in Stretford late last night after the match and a guy was trying to have the banter with a check out girl over it and he was told by a supevisor to leave the store.....3 people in other aisles left big trolleys full of stuff in support and walked out..........touchy...!


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't know whether to applaud their solidarity against the bosses or deplore their support for a sex pest.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> I don't know whether to applaud their solidarity against the bosses or deplore their support for a sex pest.


wtf!


----------



## Greebo (Jan 17, 2013)

Even the cashiers in Lidl had got the bit between their teeth with the not so glad tidings.


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't know what wtf! means in this context.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> I don't know whether to applaud their solidarity against the bosses or deplore their support for a sex pest.


Surely that would depend on whether it was taken as banter or whether the cashier felt it was rather more aggressive than just a bit of fun.


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

Precisely.


----------



## Tankus (Jan 17, 2013)

And yet you label him a sex pest


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

I did no such thing.


----------



## Tankus (Jan 17, 2013)

Maybe he was just horsing around


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> Precisely.


 
wtf does this have to do with sex tho?


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> I did no such thing.


of course you did!


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> I don't know what wtf! means in this context.


 
it means how the fuck is he a sex pest!


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 17, 2013)

1927 said:


> it means how the fuck is he a sex pest!


 
She was messing FFS.


----------



## Tankus (Jan 17, 2013)

Its all in the labeling


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

1927 said:


> wtf does this have to do with sex tho?


Read the post above mine?



bignose1 said:


> I was in Tescos near me.....the big new fucker in Stretford late last night after the match and a guy was trying to have the banter with a check out girl over it and he was told by a supevisor to leave the store.....3 people in other aisles left big trolleys full of stuff in support and walked out..........touchy...!


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

1927 said:


> it means how the fuck is he a sex pest!


You're getting upset because I raised the possibility that some random guy in someone else's anecdote might have been harrassing a woman rather than indulging in 'banter'?

If my insulting this stranger really does bother you, I didn't call him a sex pest. I said I couldn't work out whether he was from the information given.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 17, 2013)

I just can't believe that fucking store manager having the gall to get arsey while wearing the front half of a horse costume!


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> You're getting upset because I raised the possibility that some random guy in someone else's anecdote might have been harrassing a woman rather than indulging in 'banter'?
> 
> If my insulting this stranger really does bother you, I didn't call him a sex pest. I said I couldn't work out whether he was from the information given.


 
you didnt say he might be harrassing her, you called him a sex pest.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 17, 2013)

Depends whether he said "Those lasagne ready meals you are scanning through the till for me, I hope they don't have horse meat in lol" or "Can you scan my sauasges love, that's right you're handling them like they're massive horse cocks oh yes"


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

1927 said:


> you didnt say he might be harrassing her, you called him a sex pest.


No, I said:


ymu said:


> I don't know whether to applaud their solidarity against the bosses or deplore their support for a sex pest.


 
There's an "or" in the middle there. It matters.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> No, I said:
> 
> 
> There's an "or" in the middle there. It matters.


 
of course it doesnt.


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

What the fuck are you on?


----------



## Tankus (Jan 17, 2013)

Atkins diet


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 17, 2013)

1927's right, you know. It doesn't matter. You said he was, and I quote, 'a sex pest'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 17, 2013)

...


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

The "or" matters because I present alternative interpretations of the anecdote, only one of which can be true. In other, more pedantic, words I called one of two hypothetical realisations of the unknown gentleman in the anecdote a sex pest.

And I have no idea why anyone gives a shit. The guy is not a poster here, he's not even known to a poster here, he's a random who was chatting up a woman in a supermarket late last night with a small crowd cheering him on.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> The "or" matters because I present alternative interpretations of the anecdote, only one of which can be true. In other, more pedantic, words I called one of two hypothetical realisations of the unknown gentleman in the anecdote a sex pest.
> 
> And I have no idea why anyone gives a shit. The guy is not a poster here, he's not even known to a poster here, he's a random who was chatting up a woman in a supermarket late last night with a small crowd cheering him on.


 
TBF bignose1 didn't indicate that the conversation was anything like "chatting up" or sexpesty in any way, and it's kind of disrespectful to [URL='http://www.urban75.net/forums/members/bignose1.49229/']bignose1 to suggest that they would have recounted the anecdote in the way they did if the alternate possibility you present was true.[/URL]


----------



## brogdale (Jan 17, 2013)

This thread seems a little fraught now; some equineimity is called for.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> The "or" matters because I present alternative interpretations of the anecdote, only one of which can be true. In other, more pedantic, words I called one of two hypothetical realisations of the unknown gentleman in the anecdote a sex pest.
> 
> And I have no idea why anyone gives a shit. The guy is not a poster here, he's not even known to a poster here, he's a random who was chatting up a woman in a supermarket late last night with a small crowd cheering him on.


 
thats a bollocks interpretation of your post and you know it. You stated that you didnt know whether to applaud their support for his stance against the bosses or deplore their support of a sex pest. meaning that the two scenarios were not exclusive and that their behaviour could be construed either way.

then you state in the above quoted post that he was "chatting up a woman in a supermarket late last night with a small crowd cheering him". where the fuck have we ever been told he was chatting her up while they cheered him on? even if he was chatting her up how does that make him a sex pest?


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> TBF bignose1 didn't indicate that the conversation was anything like "chatting up" or sexpesty in any way, and it's kind of disrespectful to bignose1 to suggest that they would have recounted the anecdote in the way they did if the alternate possibility you present was true.


 
No, he didn't, and I am sure he is sincere in his interpretation. That doesn't mean that no other interpretation is possible.

It was originally intended as a lefty/feminist identity quandary joke, but whatever.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> No, he didn't, and I am sure he is sincere in his interpretation. That doesn't mean that no other interpretation is possible.
> 
> It was originally intended as a lefty/feminist identity quandary joke, but whatever.


 
well its obviously the musings of a paid up feminazi, but there was no humour in your original post.

Why is any other interpretation necessary?


----------



## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

1927 said:


> well its obviously the musings of a paid up feminazi, but there was no humour in your original post.
> 
> Why is any other interpretation necessary?


Feminazi? Now I know where you're coming from.

Fuck off.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 17, 2013)

Stop horsing around and get down to the knackers.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 17, 2013)

Yah...seriously, 29%.

Noooooo way, yer shittin me man!


----------



## 1927 (Jan 17, 2013)

ymu said:


> Feminazi? Now I know where you're coming from.
> 
> Fuck off.


 
If ya dont like it dont fucking act like one. i knew where you were coming from from ya first post. man talks to shop assiatant therefore he must be a sex pest, If you made assumptions about someones behaviour because of their race or sexuality you'd be hung on these boards, and you expect not to get called for inventing a back story cos the guy is male, if theres any fucking off to do, be my guest!


----------



## teqniq (Jan 17, 2013)

Alas I haven't worked out how or even if it's possible to embed Facebook vids but a couple of loons have dressed up in a panto horse costume and gone round Tesco's whilst shouting 'murderers!'. 

https://www.facebook.com/v/10151235461121045


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 18, 2013)

brogdale said:


> This thread seems a little fraught now; some equineimity is called for.



The thread was going good, good to funny in places, but 10 furlongs out and its getting heavy.


----------



## stuff_it (Jan 18, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Talking of Wurst, when I was little my grandad told me that Bratwusts were made of very naughty children.
> 
> I was always scared I'g get made into a sausage.


My dad told me that donner kebab was made of bats, that's why they mash it up - so you can't tell. 



ymu said:


> The Mail has a lot of good articles. There's no more need to apologise for linking to the Mail when they've got a good one out than there is to defend the Guardian when they've (yet again) run a shit one. William of Walworth


If you link to them and someone looks you are giving them ad money.


----------



## quimcunx (Jan 18, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> My dad told me that donner kebab was made of bats, that's why they mash it up - so you can't tell.
> 
> 
> If you link to them and someone looks you are giving them ad money.


 
then we should link to good articles like the food woman ones so that they see they get better advertising revenue from talking sense than hateful bile.


----------



## barney_pig (Jan 18, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> My dad told me that donner kebab was made of bats, that's why they mash it up - so you can't tell.
> 
> 
> If you link to them and someone looks you are giving them ad money.


I told my kids the ice cream van only sold marmite ice cream


----------



## stuff_it (Jan 18, 2013)

quimcunx said:


> then we should link to good articles like the food woman ones so that they see they get better advertising revenue from talking sense than hateful bile.


I don't think it works like that for the Fail.


----------



## Diddly Squat (Jan 18, 2013)

Tesco Burgers - Low in salt, high in Shergar


----------



## kenny g (Jan 18, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/embed/Dwe8zAPb4V8 - horse video


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Fuck me Im sorry for something I may have started its lead to a barney. Nobody should fall out over it. The guy wasnt aggressive nor rude and unpleasant but really just 'banter' not innuendo or fruity That said it was 15 mins after match and theres always a fair few 'supervisors' about as some of the footy punters come in for beer. Its pretty clear that they may have (Tesco) had to endure some hassle in the day and their may have been incidences...fuck its news and people can get pissed off and tell them...vote with their feet...or have a wind up.But all this guy did was tell a gag...cant remember but something similar to on here.

He most certainly wasnt chatting up a woman and there wasnt a crowd cheering him on that is absoulte rubbish. There is no alternative needed when I as an eye witness two yards away saw and heard it. End of.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 18, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Fuck me Im sorry for something I may have started its lead to a barney. Nobody should fall out over it. The guy wasnt aggressive nor rude and unpleasant but really just 'banter' no innuendo or fruity That said it was 15 mins after match and theres always a fair few 'supervisors' about as some of the footy punters come in for beer. Its pretty clear that they may (Tesco) had to endure some hassle in the day and their may have been incidences...fuck its news and people can get pissed off and tell them...vote with their feet...or have a wind up.But all this guy did was tell a gag...cant remember but something similar to on here.
> 
> He most certainly wasnt chatting up a woman and their wasnt a crowd cheering him on that is absoulte rubbish. There is no alternative needed when I as an eye winess two yards away saw and heard it. End of.


You shouldn't post if you don't like barnies. This is, after all, urban75.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 18, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> You shouldn't post if you don't like barnies.


 
Yes he should.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 18, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Yes he should.


Fuck off and let bignose1 fight his own battles


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 18, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Fuck off and let bignose1 fight his own battles


 
Stop sexually harassing bignose1 you massive sex pest.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 18, 2013)

Yum, yum..


> The Tesco burgers that contained up to 29% equine DNA were likely to have been made with *high-protein powders derived from horse rather than fresh meat*, the Guardian has been told.
> The main focus of efforts to trace the source of adulteration in the Tesco economy burgers has now shifted from the meat itself to *additives used in the manufacturing process*. The Irish processors ABP have pointed the finger at suppliers of the *"beef ingredient products" it uses to make cheap burgers*. The Tesco burgers were only 63% meat and 37% *other ingredients.*
> Economy burgers are *typically bulked out with additive mixes of concentrated proteins extracted from animal carcasses and offcuts*. Industry sources said the 29% horse DNA was more likely to have originated with these high-protein powders from rendered horses rather than any fresh horse meat.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/17/horse-dna-burger-additives

Keep troughing it down


----------



## teqniq (Jan 18, 2013)

*Gags*


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> You shouldn't post if you don't like barnies. This is, after all, urban75.


But for something worth barnying for imo...not when theres no 'material' to barney about.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 18, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> But for something worth barnying for imo...not when theres no 'material' to barney about.


no, we have barnies here for all manner of spurious reasons


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 18, 2013)

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## Voley (Jan 18, 2013)




----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 18, 2013)

ymu said:


> The "or" matters because I present alternative interpretations of the anecdote, only one of which can be true. In other, more pedantic, words I called one of two hypothetical realisations of the unknown gentleman in the anecdote a sex pest.
> 
> And I have no idea why anyone gives a shit. The guy is not a poster here, he's not even known to a poster here, he's a random who was chatting up a woman in a supermarket late last night with a small crowd cheering him on.


 
Sorry, but it's fairly obvious from bignose's post (where bignose says, in reference to the horsemeat scandal "a guy was trying to have the banter with a check out girl *over it*" [my emphasis]) that "the guy"  *wasn't* chatting the checkout worker up, he was having a josh with her about horsemeat.

Check your sexist privilege, sister!


----------



## Greebo (Jan 18, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> no, we have barnies here for all manner of spurious reasons


Including just to keep in practice.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 18, 2013)

1927 said:


> well its obviously the musings of a paid up feminazi, but there was no humour in your original post.
> 
> Why is any other interpretation necessary?


 
Feminazi? Bit pathetic, don't you think? I expect braindead rightwingers to use that load of old bollocks, not generally sane and rational people like yourself.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 18, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Including just to keep in practice.


 
You're talking a load of old pony!


----------



## barney_pig (Jan 18, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> But for something worth barnying for imo...not when theres no 'material' to barney about.


Oi!


----------



## ddraig (Jan 18, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Feminazi? Bit pathetic, don't you think? I expect braindead rightwingers to use that load of old bollocks, not generally sane and rational people like yourself.


this ^
1927 come on man


----------



## Tankus (Jan 18, 2013)

horses for courses


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 18, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Sorry, but it's fairly obvious from bignose's post (where bignose says, in reference to the horsemeat scandal "a guy was trying to have the banter with a check out girl *over it*" [my emphasis]) that "the guy" *wasn't* chatting the checkout worker up, he was having a josh with her about horsemeat.
> 
> Check your sexist privilege, sister!


 
True, but it was equally obvious that ymu's "sex pest" comment was also posted in the spirit of having a josh - As she later went on to clarify (not that she should've needed to though).


----------



## Fuchs66 (Jan 18, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Yum, yum..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/17/horse-dna-burger-additives
> 
> Keep troughing it down


I cant remember the last time I ate a burger I hadn't made myself. I now feel justified in all the abuse I've been pouring on all the McCrap etc fans, not because of horse meat (as mentioned I've eaten and enjoyed many a horse steak, stew, sausage etc) but because of the general shite that goes into manufactured burgers.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 18, 2013)

Hate to take away some of your moral high ground, but unless you're mincing and sourcing the meat yourself, it's hard to have that much confidence that things are invariably better if you make burgers. Mince from supermarkets is likely to come from the very same processors and plants. If your local butcher is mincing stuff themselves there's a comparatively high chance of cross contamination, most not having meat specific mincers or prep areas.


----------



## silverfish (Jan 18, 2013)

ymu said:


> Feminazi? Now I know where you're coming from.
> 
> Fuck off.


 
The feminazi label was a bit of a get out of jail card for you and you random wild assumptions wasn't it? Its ok to be offended now


----------



## Fuchs66 (Jan 18, 2013)

tarannau said:


> Hate to take away some of your moral high ground, but unless you're mincing and sourcing the meat yourself, it's hard to have that much confidence that things are invariably better if you make burgers. Mince from supermarkets is likely to come from the very same processors and plants. If your local butcher is mincing stuff themselves there's a comparatively high chance of cross contamination, most not having meat specific mincers or prep areas.


Yep mince made in my well equipped kitchen, dont trust anything I cant identify as a part of an animal when it comes to meat. 
E2A as I mentioned I don't have anything against eating horse meat so cross contamination wouldn't worry me, so long as it is with a form of meat or edible animal organ, its more the whole "protein powder" and other industrial products I object to.


----------



## Fuchs66 (Jan 18, 2013)

silverfish said:


> The feminazi label was a bit of a get out of jail card for you and you random wild assumptions wasn't it? Its ok to be offended now


I am outraged!!!!


----------



## Tankus (Jan 18, 2013)

Fuchs66 said:


> Yep mince made in my well equipped kitchen, dont trust anything I cant identify as a part of an animal when it comes to meat.
> E2A as I mentioned I don't have anything against eating horse meat so cross contamination wouldn't worry me, so long as it is with a form of meat or edible animal organ, its more the whole "protein powder" and other industrial products I object to.


I've got lidl burgers (95%#) in my freezer as stuff not used on my Autumn BBQ,s, damn tasty shit.....not that bothered about the pork, but, to me, the protein powder's are a real no no..........might get me a mincer perhaps......


----------



## Fuchs66 (Jan 18, 2013)

Tankus said:


> I've got lidl burgers (95%#) in my freezer as stuff not used on my Autumn BBQ,s, damn tasty shit.....not that bothered about the pork, but, to me, the protein powder's are a real no no..........might get me a mincer perhaps......


Its worthwhile, I got it mainly because the risk of microbial contamination is much reduced by buying whole cuts of meat and mincing it yourself, compared to ready, supermarket mince, all to do with surface area apparently. The taste is definitely better aswell.


----------



## xenon (Jan 18, 2013)

Fuchs66 said:


> Yep mince made in my well equipped kitchen, dont trust anything I cant identify as a part of an animal when it comes to meat.
> E2A as I mentioned I don't have anything against eating horse meat so cross contamination wouldn't worry me, so long as it is with a form of meat or edible animal organ, its more the whole "protein powder" and other industrial products I object to.



Smug twat.


----------



## ymu (Jan 18, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> True, but it was equally obvious that ymu's "sex pest" comment was also posted in the spirit of having a josh - As she later went on to clarify (not that she should've needed to though).


Thank you!

The joke might not have been obvious to those not following the Laurie Penny/identity politics thread(s), but smilies were deployed in an attempt to make up for my lack of comedic genius.

The irony is that I've now been accused of precisely the brand of politics I was having a pop at, by someone who appears to subscribe to its mirror image. These accusations are based on simplistic stereotyping of feminism; they bear no relationship to anything I've ever written on these boards. There are lots of brands of feminism around and I am not well read enough on the subject to have a name for the one I subscribe to, but it is pro-male, pro-sex and views patriarchy as equally damaging for men as it is for women.

Not that I expect people to have seen, let alone remember, everything I've ever written on a topic. But I think I'm a great deal more justified in drawing assumptions about 1927's take on feminism from his use of the word 'feminazi' than he is based on a joke he didn't understand.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 18, 2013)

ymu said:


> The joke might not have been obvious to those not following the Laurie Penny/identity politics thread(s), but smilies were deployed in an attempt to make up for my lack of comedic genius.


 
You were way over the UJOT* on that one, as was I sixteen posts later.

Respect the UJOT - wandering close is encouraged but it's a fucking tightrope and very easy to slip over the line.

* - Urban75 Joke Opacity Threshold


----------



## ymu (Jan 18, 2013)

8ball said:


> You were way over the UJOT* on that one, as was I sixteen posts later.
> 
> Respect the UJOT - wandering close is encouraged but it's a fucking tightrope and very easy to slip over the line.
> 
> * - Urban75 Joke Opacity Threshold


It is, yes. Often interesting to see who crawls out of the woodwork though. I was surprised at this one; less so at some of the cheerleaders who then turned up.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 18, 2013)

ymu said:


> It is, yes. Often interesting to see who crawls out of the woodwork though. I was surprised at this one; less so at some of the cheerleaders who then turned up.


 
I missed the joke and had a WTF moment at that tbf - it was a bit abrupt.


----------



## Fuchs66 (Jan 18, 2013)

xenon said:


> Smug twat.


Lazy fucker!


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 18, 2013)

ymu said:


> Thank you!
> 
> The joke might not have been obvious to those not following the Laurie Penny/identity politics thread(s), but smilies were deployed in an attempt to make up for my lack of comedic genius.
> 
> ...


 
Trading points with thick bastards, it's a thankless gig.TBH, you've got my massive respect coz you do attempt to engage with people instead of descending into insults which is my natural inclination.

As for brands of feminism, I dunno, I'd never describe myself as a feminist coz a bloke doing that, well, it's pretty corny isn't it? But I have read a bit of Emma Goldman and there was a chick who knew the script - Her writings on prison were bang on and even though she's from hundreds of years ago, she's properly relevant to nowadays.


----------



## ymu (Jan 18, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Trading points with thick bastards, it's a thankless gig.TBH, you've got my massive respect coz you do attempt to engage with people instead of descending into insults which is my natural inclination.
> 
> As for brands of feminism, I dunno, I'd never describe myself as a feminist coz a bloke doing that, well, it's pretty corny isn't it? But I have read a bit of Emma Goldman and there was a chick who knew the script - Her writings on prison were bang on and even though she's from hundreds of years ago, she's properly relevant to nowadays.


I descend to insults all the time. I just try not to make them content-free insults. 

You've picked up on precisely what I think is wrong with the way feminism is generally perceived and often practised. In opposition to men. I don't think that can get us anywhere we would want to go. Men suffer under patriarchy too and focusing on what is wrong _for_ women and _with_ men just sets up conflict and invites the kind of deeply unpleasant backlash discussed in this thread without achieving anything meaningful in terms of equality.

Feminism has had some significant achievements but ultimately giving women equal access to high-profile jobs, equal pay and the right to treat men like worthless sex objects doesn't make anything better, it just changes who suffers from the abuse of power by others. So now we have men being objectified in magazines, taken the piss out of in advertising, a massive rise in eating (and related body image) disorders in males, programmes like _Loose Women_ being seen as socially acceptable (even progressive), and two incomes being worth as much as one was thirty years ago.

There have been some victories, but mostly I see abject failure. Middle-class feminists have louder voices and so it is their agenda which gets pushed. Identity politics pushing out class politics to the detriment of all bar the most powerful. Same old same old.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 18, 2013)

ymu said:


> I descend to insults all the time. I just try not to make them content-free insults.
> 
> You've picked up on precisely what I think is wrong with the way feminism is generally perceived and often practised. In opposition to men. I don't think that can get us anywhere we would want to go. Men suffer under patriarchy too and focusing on what is wrong _for_ women and _with_ men just sets up conflict and invites the kind of deeply unpleasant backlash discussed in this thread without achieving anything meaningful in terms of equality.
> 
> ...


 
Mint post - Everything I've kinda felt but put into words, you _know_ it, you do check this out, I always want to share this with people...


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 18, 2013)

www.gairspace.org.uk/media/thoreau.swf


----------



## Tankus (Jan 18, 2013)

Feminism and the end of western civilization
http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html


----------



## ymu (Jan 18, 2013)

8ball said:


> I missed the joke and had a WTF moment at that tbf - it was a bit abrupt.


Missing the joke is perfectly understandable - comedy is not my strong point, and you'd need to get the reference (or be able to interpret the use of smilies) to be sure it was a joke.

It's what people reveal about their underlying attitudes in expressing their objection that is interesting. Descending to insults is not a problem, but the choice of insults is often revealing.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 18, 2013)

ymu said:


> Missing the joke is perfectly understandable - comedy is not my strong point, and you'd need to get the reference (or be able to interpret the use of smilies) to be sure it was a joke.
> 
> It's what people reveal about their underlying attitudes in expressing their objection that is interesting. Descending to insults is not a problem, but the choice of insults is often revealing.


#
This is what I mean about arguing with trumpets


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 18, 2013)

This story actually made the news here; I heard it on the radio during yesterday's commute.


----------



## moochedit (Jan 18, 2013)

A woman has been taken to hospital after eating horse meat burgers. Her condition is said to be stable.


----------



## moochedit (Jan 18, 2013)

Can you buy horse meat in the uk? I wanna try it to see what it's like. 

(and before anyone says "tesco" i mean horse meat actually labled as "horse meat" on the packet!)


----------



## brogdale (Jan 19, 2013)

Guardian offers some more mouth-watering details....



> Industry insiders have told the Guardian they believe that an ingredient called "drind", dehydrated rind or skin, may be at the heart of the scandal. It is commonly used to bulk up cheap meat products.
> Additives made from boiled hide or offcuts of carcasses are typically used to bind in added fat and water and increase the protein levels of economy beef products that have a low meat content. These may legally be identified simply as "seasoning" on the label.


 
Put that in yer nosebags!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 19, 2013)

moochedit said:


> Can you buy horse meat in the uk? I wanna try it to see what it's like.
> 
> (and before anyone says "tesco" i mean horse meat actually labled as "horse meat" on the packet!)


 

you can get more or less any met-m theres niche traders who specialise in stuff like ostrich, alligator, kangaroo etc. google


avoid the 'roo its tough as my nans old boots


----------



## 8ball (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> Missing the joke is perfectly understandable - comedy is not my strong point, and you'd need to get the reference (or be able to interpret the use of smilies) to be sure it was a joke.
> 
> It's what people reveal about their underlying attitudes in expressing their objection that is interesting. Descending to insults is not a problem, but the choice of insults is often revealing.


 
I see where you're coming from, though a single choice of word isn't necessarily a signal to being a fully paid up member of a complete worldview.

To quote Dennis Potter - 'the problem with words is that you don't always know whose mouths they have been in'.


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Guardian offers some more mouth-watering details....
> 
> 
> 
> Put that in yer nosebags!


 
29%?


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

8ball said:


> I see where you're coming from, though a single choice of word isn't necessarily a signal to being a fully paid up member of a complete worldview.
> 
> To quote Dennis Potter - 'the problem with words is that you don't always know whose mouths they have been in'.


Feminazi is pretty damn clear, no? We have rare but blazing rows where I call my partner a cunt a lot, but never black cunt. I don't needle him about slavery. And I don't call him an uppity nigger, which is the closest racial insult to feminazi.

What would you think of me if I did?

I don't have to self-censor to stop those words coming out. They just would not occur to me however heated the moment was. I think it is very telling when such language is used. That doesn't mean people can't grow the fuck out of such juvenile habits, but if they don't acknowledge the offence and don't apologise, it ain't likely to happen any time soon. They'll be too busy nurturing all that resentment against the all powerful wimmin who are ruining their lives by taking all the money and power and shit.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jan 19, 2013)

Continuing this thread is futile, it's like flogging a dead horse.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> Feminazi is pretty damn clear, no? We have rare but blazing rows where I call my partner a cunt a lot, but never black cunt. I don't needle him about slavery. And I don't call him an uppity nigger, which is the closest racial insult to feminazi.
> 
> What would you think of me if I did?
> 
> I don't have to self-censor to stop those words coming out. They just would not occur to me however heated the moment was. I think it is very telling when such language is used. That doesn't mean people can't grow the fuck out of such juvenile habits, but if they don't acknowledge the offence and don't apologise, it ain't likely to happen any time soon. They'll be too busy nurturing all that resentment against the all powerful wimmin who are ruining their lives by taking all the money and power and shit.


 
Perhaps it was done deliberately to wind you up in response to you plucking suggestions of sexual harassment out of the lunacy bin? And comparing "feminazi" to "uppity nigger" is a bit desperate.


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Perhaps it was done deliberately to wind you up in response to you plucking suggestions of sexual harassment out of the lunacy bin? And comparing "feminazi" to "uppity nigger" is a bit desperate.


If a black person pisses you off, do you use a racial insult to wind them up? Do your mates direct homophobic insults at you in anger, and if so, are you OK with that?

If you think there is no comparison between the terms, explain why. Show your working.

And read the fucking thread:


ymu said:


> Thank you!
> 
> The joke might not have been obvious to those not following the Laurie Penny/identity politics thread(s), but smilies were deployed in an attempt to make up for my lack of comedic genius.
> 
> ...


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> If a black person pisses you off, do you use a racial insult to wind them up?
> 
> If you think there is no comparison between the terms, explain why. Show your working.


 
Because feminazi is a derogatory term for a radical feminist. Radical feminism is an ideological position that ones chooses to adopt, a bit different from skin colour don't you think?

I am sure being compared to Julie Burchill might have been traumatic for you, but it was as a direct result of the failure of an in "joke" you tried to deploy. I seem to remember you repeatedly having a go at me before for making jokes about sensitive issues that aren't readily apparent as jokes to anyone who might be reading the thread. Maybe you should go and read your own advice.


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Because feminazi is a derogatory term for a radical feminist. Radical feminism is an ideological position that ones chooses to adopt, a bit different from skin colour don't you think?
> 
> I am sure being compared to Julie Burchill might have been traumatic for you, but it was as a direct result of the failure of an in "joke" you tried to deploy. I seem to remember you repeatedly having a go at me before for making jokes about sensitive issues that aren't readily apparent as jokes to anyone who might be reading the thread. Maybe you should go and read your own advice.


He didn't level the insult at a radical feminist, but even if he had, do you really think comparing an assertive woman to Hitler is indicative of a healthy attitude to feminism? Really?

Are you really still holding a grudge about my pulling you up on a joke about Eastern Europeans from what? at least a year ago? Wow.

You didn't answer this bit:


ymu said:


> If a black person pisses you off, do you use a racial insult to wind them up? Do your mates direct homophobic insults at you in anger, and if so, are you OK with that?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> He didn't level the insult at a radical feminist, but even if he had, do you really think comparing an assertive woman to Hitler is indicative of a healthy attitude to feminism? Really?


 
A healthy attitude to radical feminism, yes. A bit like a favourite word of Urban's, conspiraloons.



> Are you really still holding a grudge about my pulling you up on a joke about Eastern Europeans from what? at least a year ago? Wow.


 
Of course not, I'm just suggesting you take your own advice for once.



> You didn't answer this bit: If a black person pisses you off, do you use a racial insult to wind them up? Do your mates direct homophobic insults at you in anger, and if so, are you OK with that?


 
I did actually. Comparing race and sexuality to the ideological lunacy of radical feminist is bizarre. The word "feminazi" was clearly not used against you because of your gender, but because of the random accusation you appeared to hurl (I'm sure it was well funny to those who go the "joke" though, well done for that).


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

Radical feminists are to men as the Nazis were to Jews?

You sure you want to stand by that statement?

When was the last time you heard a bloke called 'feminazi'?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> Radical feminists are to men as the Nazis were to Jews?
> 
> You sure you want to stand by that statement?


 
What statement that I said do you want me to stand by? 

I'm certainly not standing anywhere near your random assertions on this thread.

Maybe you should let go of those straws?


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> A healthy attitude to radical feminism, yes. A bit like a favourite word of Urban's, conspiraloons.


^^ That one.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 19, 2013)

You appear to be confusing "an assertive woman" with "a radical feminist".


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> ^^ That one.


 
Yes. Lampooning radical feminists by referring to them as feminazis is entirely appropriate.


----------



## Dandred (Jan 19, 2013)

I can't believe how all these burgers that are made in the same place and packaged as different brands hasn't warranted discussion, if anything that should be a key in the downfall of consumer capitalism.
In the same way that certain sport's shoes are all made at the same factory and at the end have different labels stitched onto them to be sold at different prices.


----------



## Dandred (Jan 19, 2013)

Now urban's are bitching with each other about another infinite pointless point.


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Yes. Lampooning radical feminists by referring to them as feminazis is entirely appropriate.


So you do think that they are as damaging to men as the Nazis were to Jews. Thanks for clearing that one up. Finally.


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

Dandred said:


> I can't believe how all these burgers that are made in the same place and packaged as different brands hasn't warranted discussion, if anything that should be a key in the downfall of consumer capitalism.
> In the same way that certain sport's shoes are all made at the same factory and at the end have different labels stitched onto them to be sold at different prices.


Everyone knows that, surely? Well, not young uns, but adults who read the news or watch telly or read the packaging know it, as does anyone who has worked in a food factory or knows someone who has worked in a food factory. It's not exactly a secret.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> So you do think that they are as damaging to men as the Nazis were to Jews. Thanks for clearing that one up. Finally.


 
Stop putting words into mouth. Did I mention anywhere they were damaging to men? No, that's right I didn't

Actually where did I compare them to nazis at all? I simply said feminazi is an appropriate pejorative. I bet no one here thinks conspiracy theorists should be locked in asylums for being driven to madness by the moon?

You still haven't explained how the insult "feminazi" is equivalent to "nigger", and by extension how radical feminism is equivalent to skin colour? Perhaps you'd like to stand by that one?


----------



## Garek (Jan 19, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Continuing this thread is futile, it's like flogging a dead horse.


 
I don't know, there seems to be a few people still chomping at the bit for more.


----------



## Dandred (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> Everyone knows that, surely? Well, not young uns, but adults who read the news or watch telly or read the packaging know it, as does anyone who has worked in a food factory or knows someone who has worked in a food factory. It's not exactly a secret.


 
Most people don't, they are happy to buy what ever makes them feel like it was something worth buying. Burgers are still luxury taxed in the UK aren't they?


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Stop putting words into mouth. Did I mention anywhere they were damaging to men? No, that's right I didn't
> 
> Actually where did I compare them to nazis at all? I simply said feminazi is an appropriate pejorative. I bet no one here thinks conspiracy theorists should be locked in asylums for being driven to madness by the moon?
> 
> You still haven't explained how the insult "feminazi" is equivalent to "nigger", and by extension how radical feminism is equivalent to skin colour? Perhaps you'd like to stand by that one?


 
How is 'feminazi' not drawing a comparison with the Nazis?

I said the closest racial equivalent was "uppity nigger", not "nigger". Fuck's sake.

I'm not engaging with you further because I don't think you're putting any effort in (but feel free to spout more crassness, obv).


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

Dandred said:


> Most people don't, they are happy to buy what ever makes them feel like it was something worth buying. Burgers are still luxury taxed in the UK aren't they?


That's called consumerism. I have no idea what the tax comment means in this context.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> I said the closest racial equivalent was "uppity nigger", not "nigger". Fuck's sake.


 
Ah yes, that makes your comparison between insulting radical feminists and racial abuse totally make sense.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> I'm not engaging with you further because I don't think you're putting any effort in (but feel free to spout more crassness, obv).


 
I'm the one standing by everything I say and you're the one running away from all the bizarre and random statements you keep making.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 19, 2013)

I don't recall seeig you do a joke before on here ymu and now I know why.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 20, 2013)

Tesco are offering triple clubcard points next week on petrol and burgers.Just ask for the Only Fuel and Horses promotion!


----------



## 8ball (Jan 20, 2013)

ymu said:


> Feminazi is pretty damn clear, no? We have rare but blazing rows where I call my partner a cunt a lot, but never black cunt. I don't needle him about slavery. And I don't call him an uppity nigger, which is the closest racial insult to feminazi.
> 
> What would you think of me if I did?
> .



I think 'black supremacist' would probably be closer, though I can see the point you're trying to make with that.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 5, 2013)

Even more horse meat found at a couple of Irish meat processors.

One burger had apparently 75% horse dna .... 75% ...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 5, 2013)

Where do they keep geting all these horses from?


----------



## N_igma (Feb 5, 2013)

That was found in my home town. Hmmm lovely horsemeat!


----------



## ymu (Feb 5, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Where do they keep geting all these horses from?


Have abandoned Irish horses entered the food chain?

It's old nags from somewhere. Horse meat is more expensive than beef, if farmed for human consumption.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Feb 5, 2013)

Well now we can guess where Shergar went to in the 80s.


----------



## flypanam (Feb 5, 2013)

N_igma said:


> That was found in my home town. Hmmm lovely horsemeat!


 
Rangeland Foods is in your home town? It's in mine.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 7, 2013)

Findus "Beef" Lasagne, anyone?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodandd...y-meal-was-up-to-100-per-cent-horse-meat.html



> Findus, one of the most popular brands of frozen foods, has withdrawn 180,000 lasagnes from sale after carrying out tests on meals from a French supplier that had raised concerns.
> The frozen food company found that 11 out of 18 ready meals, which were advertised as containing 100 per cent beef, were actually between 60 per cent and *100 per cent horse meat*. The lasagne was sold by Tesco, Asda and Morrisons.
> Findus said it did not know how long the product had been on the shelves, but admitted that Comigel, based in Metz, north-east France, had been supplying meat for its lasagnes for more than two years.
> *Samples are now being tested for bute, a painkiller given to horses* which can lead to serious blood disorders. The Food Standards Agency urged anyone who bought the products to return them to retailers, who will give them a full refund.


 
Phenylbutazone (bute) is an anti-inflammatory used by vets mainly to treat pain and fever in horses.
In the mid-20 century it was also used in human medicine as a treatment for gout and arthritis, but was banned – in food and medicine intended for humans – after it was linked to aplastic anaemia (a blood condition that inhibits cell production bone marrow) and the suppression of white blood cell production. According to the Indy.

Yum, yum.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 7, 2013)

Yes, amazing, beef product but up to 100% horse.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 7, 2013)

*smug vegi post


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 7, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Findus "Beef" Lasagne, anyone?
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodandd...y-meal-was-up-to-100-per-cent-horse-meat.html
> 
> ...


So it wasn't just horses, which is probably fine, it was possibly _sick_ horses?

That is not on.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 7, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> So it wasn't just horses, which is probably fine, it was possibly _sick_ horses?
> 
> That is not on.


 
More like Odds on; often given to racing nags...apparently?


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 8, 2013)

This has definitely refined my views about why I don't go further up the food chain than fish.
I suppose BSE was the first time - and I was fully vegan back then.
If I ever took up eating poultry / game, I would want to process the whole animal myself.
Can't see myself ever going in for meat _*per se*_ - it isn't crying out to me after 32 years ...


----------



## brogdale (Feb 8, 2013)

gentlegreen said:


> This has definitely refined my views about why I don't go further up the food chain than fish.
> I suppose BSE was the first time - and I was fully vegan back then.
> If I ever took up eating poultry / game, I would want to process the whole animal myself.
> Can't see myself ever going in for meat _*per se*_ - it isn't crying out to me after 32 years ...


 
Likewise; not eaten meat since 1986, and for the same reasons.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 8, 2013)

gentlegreen said:


> This has definitely refined my views about why I don't go further up the food chain than fish.


 
Maybe next they'll find almonds in cashew nut roasts.


----------



## ymu (Feb 8, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> So it wasn't just horses, which is probably fine, it was possibly _sick_ horses?
> 
> That is not on.


Not just sick. Working nags that have been stuffed full of drugs that are banned from the human food chain to keep them working and then sold off cheap.

It's still at the testing for stage AFAICT, but it'd be amazing if this meat came from horses intended for human consumption (legally by UK law) because it is would be more expensive than the beef it is replacing.


----------



## story (Feb 8, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Where do they keep geting all these horses from?


 

I can't give chapter and verse here cos I wasn't paying close attention. But The Food Programme (?) on Radio 4 asked this question too. They spoke to a journalist or film maker who had traced the story of the racing horse Sahara Sky (?) after he was put to stud and then sold on into retirement. He ended up sold to Ireland (?) and then to a meat trader and went into the food chain. He was treated with bute all the way through his racing career. Apparently, one of the reasons it was banned was that it's carcinogenic.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 8, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Maybe next they'll find almonds in cashew nut roasts.


 
As long as its not Brazils...they make my mouth and throat go all funny and stingy. i suppose its mild anaphalxis, or summat?


----------



## ymu (Feb 8, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Where do they keep geting all these horses from?


The "Celtic Tiger" had the highest per capita horse ownership in Europe before the crash, as a result of all the status symbols bought in the boom. Loads have been abandoned and culls are either planned or already happening (can't remember which, there's a lot of opposition to a cull so I think it may not have started yet).

Similar is happening here. Some horse shelters are putting on night security to prevent people abandoning horses overnight cos they're full.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 8, 2013)

Now that I think of it, I never even thought about what they did with dead horses.

....are there.....other animals...that are legal to be in our pre-prepared food?


----------



## ymu (Feb 8, 2013)

This is not legal. Working nags aren't even supposed to find their way into pet food any more.

Regulations are a lot looser in some parts of Europe.


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 8, 2013)




----------



## Hocus Eye. (Feb 8, 2013)

ymu said:


> The "Celtic Tiger" had the highest per capita horse ownership in Europe before the crash, as a result of all the status symbols bought in the boom. Loads have been abandoned and culls are either planned or already happening (can't remember which, there's a lot of opposition to a cull so I think it may not have started yet).
> 
> Similar is happening here. Some horse shelters are putting on night security to prevent people abandoning horses overnight cos they're full.


I am not prepared to eat tiger mince in my food no matter how Celtic it is. Nor am I in favour of a tiger cull.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 8, 2013)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I am not prepared to eat tiger mince in my food no matter how Celtic it is. Nor am I in favour of a tiger cull.


Well your food probably doesn't go with tiger mince.

I heard it tastes like lobster.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

Anybody else think the real scandal lies in that the horse meat was pet food horse meat, from factories with less hygiene standards than non pet food meat factories. It doesnt make sense that the 'scandal' is just putting meat from a different animal in a burger.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Where do they keep geting all these horses from?


 
The knackers yards? Certainly wont be from abattoirs providing meat for the discerning palates of France and Italy. It wouldnt make sense to put meat which is thought as a delicacy into 'value' burgers and Findus gack.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

There's history of this as well. I know this meat is meant to come from Poland but it doesnt mean only the Chinese would do it.
http://www.farminguk.com/news/China-Knackers-Yard-selling-meat-to-butchers._9940.html


----------



## lenny101 (Feb 8, 2013)

Findus lasagna says 100% beef on the packets but some have contained 100% horse meat. Shouldn't they be prosecuted for this?
And why are the Food Standards Agency not being ripped a new one over this ffs?

My wife is vegi so I eat very little meat but this shit makes me furious. Not so much with Findus, Tesco etc, but with the people who should be checking what these companies are selling to us.


----------



## Fuchs66 (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> *smug vegi post


Smug "only eats meat that is recognisable as such and knows what type of animal it came from but doesn't have anything against a nice horse steak" carnivore!


----------



## lenny101 (Feb 8, 2013)

Just saw a guy from the Food Standards Agency being interviewed on Day Break. He seemed to be defending the companies who have been selling us horse meat.

Its weird that, I thought they were supposed to be protecting us.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 8, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> It doesnt make sense that the 'scandal' is just putting meat from a different animal in a burger.


Correct.  I made that point way up the thread when this first broke but was drowned out by people saying "what wrong with eating horse?".  Nothing.  But that isn't the point.  There's first the point that people need to be able to choose which type of meat they want in their shopping basket today - beef, pork, lamb, horse - and be confident that they've been given the one they asked for.  But more importantly, there's the points about having a traceable chain (post BSE etc) and about fitness for human consumption.  If horses were raised for human consumption in Ireland or Yorkshire, then there should be a traceable chain, and there should not be chemicals and medicines harmful to humans, and certain hygiene standards should be met.  

But it turns out that we just don't seem to know where this meat is coming from, whether it might be powdered meat, whether it's from Yorkshire, Ireland, Poland, France.


----------



## Garek (Feb 8, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Correct. I made that point way up the thread when this first broke but was drowned out by people saying "what wrong with eating horse?". Nothing. But that isn't the point. There's first the point that people need to be able to choose which type of meat they want in their shopping basket today - beef, pork, lamb, horse - and be confident that they've been given the one they asked for. But more importantly, there's the points about having a traceable chain (post BSE etc) and about fitness for human consumption. If horses were raised for human consumption in Ireland or Yorkshire, then there should be a traceable chain, and there should not be chemicals and medicines harmful to humans, and certain hygiene standards should be met.
> 
> But it turns out that we just don't seem to know where this meat is coming from, whether it might be powdered meat, whether it's from Yorkshire, Ireland, Poland, France.


 
And ultimately it is those on the tightest budgets that suffer most. Which is why I smug vege comments a little hard to stomach (no pun intended). It's all right for some. Well done that you can manage a vegetarian diet. And well done even more if you have a children and you can convince them to eat vegetarian to. And if you do eat meat and yet are able to afford to buy good quality food for you and your family then that's a privilege.

There will always be dangers with processed food. But so long as the economic conditions that allow to flourish exist the least the state could do is make sure it is actually what it says it is.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 8, 2013)

Garek said:


> And ultimately it is those on the tightest budgets that suffer most.


Indeed.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

lenny101 said:


> Just saw a guy from the Food Standards Agency being interviewed on Day Break. He seemed to be defending the companies who have been selling us horse meat.
> 
> Its weird that, I thought they were supposed to be protecting us.


 
Trying to stop a massive vomit-a-thon when people realise they've been eating winalot/kitekat all this time.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 8, 2013)

Findus Lasagne is actually named after its inventor, Findus Morehorse.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 8, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Correct. I made that point way up the thread when this first broke but was drowned out by people saying "what wrong with eating horse?". Nothing. But that isn't the point. There's first the point that people need to be able to choose which type of meat they want in their shopping basket today - beef, pork, lamb, horse - and be confident that they've been given the one they asked for. But more importantly, there's the points about having a traceable chain (post BSE etc) and about fitness for human consumption. If horses were raised for human consumption in Ireland or Yorkshire, then there should be a traceable chain, and there should not be chemicals and medicines harmful to humans, and certain hygiene standards should be met.
> 
> But it turns out that we just don't seem to know where this meat is coming from, whether it might be powdered meat, whether it's from Yorkshire, Ireland, Poland, France.


 
Hmmm....LFTB  (would add little green 'vomit' emot if it were available)


----------



## Remus Harbank (Feb 8, 2013)

Garek said:


> And ultimately it is those on the tightest budgets that suffer most.


 
Just another form of class war – the poor get loaded with toxic debt, toxic food, toxic housing. The whole horsemeat affair is probably only the tip of the iceberg. 

Also – Veggies can stop being smug, just wait til you find out that your precious greens have been sprayed with Plutonium Oxide


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 8, 2013)

Remus Harbank said:


> Also – Veggies can stop being smug


_Some_ veggies may have been smug, but the two things are not synonymous.


----------



## AnandLeo (Feb 8, 2013)

Where do they get all these horses to substitute for beef? Cattle are farmed for beef and there are lots of them on the fields far more about or more than 20 times the horses on fields, and I thought even they are not reared for meat.

I also wondered where they get all these wood chips for chipboards in the market. Nearly all modern furniture is made of chipboard and even houses and buildings are built with chipboards.


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 8, 2013)

AnandLeo said:


> I also wondered where they get all these wood chips for chipboards in the market. Nearly all modern furniture is made of chipboard and even houses and buildings are built with chipboards.


The craze for tree ferns in the UK is partly because the bulk of the trunks went for chipboard when they were clearing land in Tasmania.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

Remus Harbank said:


> Just another form of class war – the poor get loaded with toxic debt, toxic food, toxic housing. The whole horsemeat affair is probably only the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> Also – Veggies can stop being smug, just wait til you find out that your precious greens have been sprayed with Plutonium Oxide


 oh fuck off
so that won't affect meat eaters too of course as they don't eat veg
grow up


----------



## Remus Harbank (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> oh fuck off





ddraig said:


> so that won't affect meat eaters too of course as they don't eat veg
> grow up



missing some proteins in your diet?


----------



## pesh (Feb 8, 2013)

http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/topics/f...ne-on-for-six-months-claims-mp/236398.article



> a letter sent by Findus to UK retailers on Monday (4 February) stated the company was told by its supplier on Saturday that it could not guarantee exactly what was in its beef lasagne. "Further, at least one supplier told them they couldn't guarantee the conformity of the product they were supplying from as early as August last year"


 
everything was going fine till August then a horse fell in.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 8, 2013)

i think horse meat lasagna sounds grand! which shops still stock it?


----------



## Remus Harbank (Feb 8, 2013)

pesh said:


> http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/topics/f...ne-on-for-six-months-claims-mp/236398.article





pesh said:


> everything was going fine till August then a horse fell in.


just wait til they find out about the rats. It's gonna be like that Wesley Snipes film, Demolition Man


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> oh fuck off
> so that won't affect meat eaters too of course as they don't eat veg
> grow up


 
You fuck off you deeply tedious, whiny-arsed little prick. Christ man, you're all but _insufferable_.


----------



## cybertect (Feb 8, 2013)

Whipped this up this morning. Someone had to do it


----------



## agricola (Feb 8, 2013)

mauvais said:


> Findus Lasagne is actually named after its inventor, Findus Morehorse.


 
Didnt he invent the bologneighs as well?


----------



## where to (Feb 8, 2013)

5livr debate jumped straight to "is there anything wrong with eating horse meat", no "what the fuck is going on here". Says it all about how they frame these things. Then cue a load of fannys who have never touched findus food saying they would not have a problem with it.

Eventually an ex EH officer called on and got stick in: UK only.country objecting to processed mechanical meat recovery in EU. Shocking standards, massive cuts etc.

That whole debate has not been framed in this way says it all. Instead its just a laugh for folk.who report it, but arent affected.

And where is unison, this is an open goal for them they 'represent' thousands of EH officers, all at risk of redundancy now and in yrs to come


----------



## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> You fuck off you deeply tedious, whiny-arsed little prick. Christ man, you're all but _insufferable_.


 put me on ignore then there's a good dickwipe racist knobber


----------



## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

Remus Harbank said:


> missing some proteins in your diet?


oh! wow an original anti vegi 'joke', you're soooo


----------



## dylans (Feb 8, 2013)

What are the possibilities of suing Tesco,, Aldi, Findus etc? Perhaps a class action. Might be an opportunity for a nice little earner at the expense of corporations


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 8, 2013)

dylans said:


> What are the possibilities of suing Tesco,, Aldi, Findus etc? Perhaps a class action. Might be an opportunity for a nice little earner at the expense of corporations


 
Sue for what? Damages from eating horse meat? I don't think it'll be worth it.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 8, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> Anybody else think the real scandal lies in that the horse meat was pet food horse meat, from factories with less hygiene standards than non pet food meat factories. It doesnt make sense that the 'scandal' is just putting meat from a different animal in a burger.


 
The media isn't going to able to manage that level of subtlety.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 8, 2013)

Id say we need to tighten up regulations but that would be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Sue for what? Damages from eating horse meat? I don't think it'll be worth it.


 
Depends on where the horse meat came from, its hardly likely to have come from a reputable source seeing as its destination was low end market products and the shifty way it was used. I think its come from the pet food industry, its widely used there and very cheap for the gack it'll end up in.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

8ball said:


> The media isn't going to able to manage that level of subtlety.


 
What the fucks subtle about being told you've been eating dog food?


----------



## 8ball (Feb 8, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> What the fucks subtle about being told you've been eating dog food?


 
They'll need to deal with the lack of marrowbone jelly in the burgers for start.


----------



## spring-peeper (Feb 8, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Sue for what? Damages from eating horse meat? I don't think it'll be worth it.




How about for false advertising?  The label says beef, it contains horse.


----------



## dylans (Feb 8, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Sue for what? Damages from eating horse meat? I don't think it'll be worth it.


False advertising. If I sell you a GI Joe and you open the box on Xmas morning to find a Barbie, you would be most upset. 

(Equestrian Barbie obviously)


----------



## kebabking (Feb 8, 2013)

and the words 'Farm Shop' and 'Butcher' leap into the public discourse.

one is very much reminded of, IIRC, *Spooky Franks*' assertion that meat comes in many shapes and sizes, but that none of them are grey...

while i have some sympathy with the wailing and nashing of teeth about horsemeat being in processed food, i have to ask quite what people thought was in it to produce the colour and texture the processors have 'achieved'. the old jokes about such food being 'bollock, hoof, ear and arsehole' were only ever half a joke, it seems to me a bit precious to happily accept that your pasty was made from a cows special places, but howl in protest if its got a bit of horse in it as well.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 8, 2013)

spring-peeper said:


> How about for false advertising? The label says beef, it contains horse.


 
The ASA might give them a stern word.

Trading standards might fine them £5000

A private prosecution attempting to gain compensation for mental anguish due to eating the wrong kind of meat would be pointless for everyone except the lawyers.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 8, 2013)

I note the Food Minister says there's no need to throw any food away.

I wonder if we will see him on breakfast television stuffing ready meals into his 22-year old daughters face?


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

Criminal charges are been pursued in this


> "The latest revelations raise questions about the extent of this scandal - this is no longer just a food safety issue but possibly a criminal trade.


 
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/food-standards-agency-investigate-horsemeat-1593667


----------



## weltweit (Feb 8, 2013)

It is a bit of an inditment of the international food business, that there is this vast chain of companies supplying meat in all sorts of forms such that no one (not the consumer nor the manufacturer) really knows where their food is coming from or of what it consists.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

weltweit said:


> It is a bit of an inditment of the international food business, that there is this vast chain of companies supplying meat in all sorts of forms such that no one (not the consumer nor the manufacturer) really knows where their food is coming from or of what it consists.


 
Organised crime maybe?


----------



## weltweit (Feb 8, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> Organised crime maybe?


 
Or is it organisational incompetence?


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

If its a pet food source its organisational incompetence that makes a massive profit.


----------



## dylans (Feb 8, 2013)

Tesco will ride this out undoubtedly. This is only related to a few of the products they sell and they are only the supplier but Findus are fucked. This is their product and their brand

Really, is anyone going to buy anything from Findus after this?


----------



## weltweit (Feb 8, 2013)

Back when I last worked in manufacturing lot traceability was an in phrase, it meant that you could trace back what ingredients (components) had gone into your finished products.

If you don't have decent traceability, you don't know which items to remove from the supply chain if there is a problem.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 8, 2013)

dylans said:


> Tesco will ride this out undoubtedly. This is only related to a few of the products they sell and they are only the supplier but Findus are fucked. This is their product and their brand
> 
> Really, is anyone going to buy anything from Findus after this?


 
I tend to agree, Findus will lose trust massively. I suppose there are steps they could take to mitigate reputation damage and an apology is a start. Wonder how much of their output this actually affects? Of course joe public may say no more Findus - not worth the risk in which case they are FUBAR.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

Latest from the FSA 
http://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates/news/2013/feb/investigation-statement#.URURUh11GSp


----------



## existentialist (Feb 8, 2013)

lenny101 said:


> Just saw a guy from the Food Standards Agency being interviewed on Day Break. He seemed to be defending the companies who have been selling us horse meat.
> 
> Its weird that, I thought they were supposed to be protecting us.


Not when you think that a former chief executive of the FSA ended up working for Tesco...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 8, 2013)

spring-peeper said:


> How about for false advertising? The label says beef, it contains horse.


 
Just think of the uproar if it was discovered it was little fluffy kittens instead of horses


----------



## weltweit (Feb 8, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> Latest from the FSA
> http://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates/news/2013/feb/investigation-statement#.URURUh11GSp


 
It is only partly about food safety wrt Bute in horses - it is more about trust that goods are as described.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

Bute is the problem it seems....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21383362#TWEET592206


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

weltweit said:


> It is only partly about food safety wrt Bute in horses - it is more about trust that goods are as described.


 
If you inject bute into a horse it means it cant be used for human consumption ie its pet food. Its not about just changing horse meat for beef.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 8, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> If you inject bute into a horse it means it cant be used for human consumption ie its pet food. Its not about just changing horse meat for beef.


Yes, I know that.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 8, 2013)

dylans said:


> Tesco will ride this out undoubtedly...


Well they have the stock for it.


----------



## fredfelt (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm late to the thread so sorry if this has been mentioned already - It seems that find horse DNA the FSA specifically searched for horse DNA.  They can't just analyse meat to find out what animal it's come from - then need to run a series of tests for each species of DNA they are looking for.  The implication is clear - meat from any animal could be being passed off as any other animal.

Sure many people are happy to eat meat from any origin but surely this confirms the contempt manufacturers of low grade meat have for their customers and undoubtedly the animals they use in their products.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Yes, I know that.


 
Well, thats more important than if its just beef or horse meat. Its about is it fit for human consumption.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> put me on ignore then there's a good dickwipe racist knobber


 
You went all quiet last time I asked you to justify your allegation of racism, ya slack jawed, priapic, degenerate ape-like creature who likes to drape himself in his perverted grandfathers shapeless & threadbare crushed velvet purple leisure suit.


----------



## dylans (Feb 8, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> Well, thats more important than if its just beef or horse meat. Its about is it fit for human consumption.


That would make it an order of magnitude more serious if confirmed. Not only mislabelling food but selling us poisoned food.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 8, 2013)

The only beef burgers I buy ever are Tesco Aberdeen Angus prime beef burgers. Seeing as they specify the actual type of cow I am hoping there is no chance of my eating horse!!


----------



## Mungy (Feb 8, 2013)

weltweit said:


> The only beef burgers I buy ever are Tesco Aberdeen Angus prime beef burgers. Seeing as they specify the actual type of cow I am hoping there is no chance of my eating horse!!


 
Angus you say?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> You went all quiet last time I asked you to justify your allegation of racism, ya slack jawed, priapic, degenerate ape-like creature who likes to drape himself in his perverted grandfathers shapeless & threadbare crushed velvet purple leisure suit.


i don't need to prove anything, it is there in type for all to see


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> i don't need to prove anything, it is there in type for all to see


 
Like the unspeakable perversion passed down the line from your sick, diseased beast of a paternal grandfather is there for all to see?

Humour me, provide evidence of my supposed racism.


----------



## existentialist (Feb 8, 2013)

Garek said:


> And ultimately it is those on the tightest budgets that suffer most. Which is why I smug vege comments a little hard to stomach (no pun intended). It's all right for some. Well done that you can manage a vegetarian diet. And well done even more if you have a children and you can convince them to eat vegetarian to. And if you do eat meat and yet are able to afford to buy good quality food for you and your family then that's a privilege.
> 
> There will always be dangers with processed food. But so long as the economic conditions that allow to flourish exist the least the state could do is make sure it is actually what it says it is.


I wouldn't argue with what you're saying, but the impression I have is that good quality meat is not, in real terms, very much more expensive than it was before we had quite so much of this ultra-cheap meat: what has happened, it seems to me, is that we have got used to being able to source meat at a price which enables us to regard it as a daily essential (that certainly wasn't the case 40-50 years ago).

Clearly, those economies have been achieved at a price, and I guess that finding horse meat in our food supply is an example of that price.

I *am* a vegetarian, though I hope not a smug one, and I've been able to look in in some confusion as we've seen the price of meat drop to incredible levels - £2 chickens, etc. Maybe being veggie gives me a detachment I wouldn't otherwise have, but I have long wondered when the payback was going to come, and what form it might take.

And, I suppose, poorer - and possibly poorly educated on food - families are always going to buy the cheap meat if it is available, and are thus more likely to be the ones eating meat of dubious provenance, but I wonder what the economic implications on them would be to return to a 1960s-type meat diet, where it was available less often, but was more likely to be fresh, whole meat from a butcher's than something made in a factory?

Maybe I'm wrong - perhaps decent meat really is prohibitively expensive, now, but isn't the price we're paying for cheap meat pretty steep, too, if there's the risk that dangerous substances are going to end up in the food chain ?


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 8, 2013)




----------



## teqniq (Feb 8, 2013)

Thanks to Norris Nuvo


----------



## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Like the unspeakable perversion passed down the line from your sick, diseased beast of a paternal grandfather is there for all to see?
> 
> Humour me, provide evidence of my supposed racism.


fuck right off you charmless slimey soggy biscuit
and i'm leaving it there


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> fuck right off you charmless slimey soggy biscuit
> and i'm leaving it there


 
Leave it there then - On the note that you've been found to be singularly unable to provide one single piece of evidence to back up your assertion that I'm a racist. Thanks for acknowledging the fact that I'm not actually a racist.

Just out of interest though - Would your vegan principles permit you to eat a soggy biscuit?


----------



## Fuchs66 (Feb 8, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Just think of the uproar if it was discovered it was little fluffy kittens instead of horses


Mmmmmmm kitten-burger!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 8, 2013)

German-owned supermarket chain ALDI withdraws some beef products after tests reveal "between 30% and 100% horse meat"


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> *smug vegi post


Obligatory Hitler reference.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 8, 2013)

Well, at least people won't have to worry about getting BSE from it.


----------



## dylans (Feb 8, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I wouldn't argue with what you're saying, but the impression I have is that good quality meat is not, in real terms, very much more expensive than it was before we had quite so much of this ultra-cheap meat: what has happened, it seems to me, is that we have got used to being able to source meat at a price which enables us to regard it as a daily essential (that certainly wasn't the case 40-50 years ago).
> 
> Clearly, those economies have been achieved at a price, and I guess that finding horse meat in our food supply is an example of that price.
> 
> ...


It's also about time. Its not just cheap meat. I mean, its still cheaper to cook a lasagne from scratch and freeze portions than it is to buy prepackaged ones but prepackaged stuff is easy especially if people are juggling taking care of the family with holding down a job etc. You buy it, throw it in the microwave, cook some oven chips and dinner is done.

I have a kid and I am very conscious of his diet. This means two things. First it means I spend a lot of time cooking and it means I spend more than I can really afford. I only work part time and I don't have a life beyond my son so I have the time for that but for many people neither of these options are easy.

Part of it is education sure, lots of people can't cook or think they can't but for many people I think they just don't have the time to do it. For people with money thats not a problem because they can buy higher quality products but for someone taking care of a family on shitty wages, lack of money and lack of time combines to create a toxic combination of wanting easy to cook food at cheap prices. Supermarkets cater to that and the result is horsey burgers and mechanically separated shite


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

dylans said:


> That would make it an order of magnitude more serious if confirmed. Not only mislabelling food but selling us poisoned food.


 
An FSA spokeswoman has just said on Channel 4 news its likely the code labelling on the horse meat was changed meaning its likely it came from a source that wasnt meant for human consumption.


----------



## stuff_it (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> fuck right off you charmless slimey soggy biscuit
> and i'm leaving it there


Biscuitist!


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 8, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Better donkey than soylent green


Hasn't been nearly enough references to this.
I may have to actually watch the film now.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 8, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Just think of the uproar if it was discovered it was little fluffy kittens instead of horses


 
Cat meat probably does get in to the production process somewhere along the line.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 8, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I wouldn't argue with what you're saying, but the impression I have is that good quality meat is not, in real terms, very much more expensive than it was before we had quite so much of this ultra-cheap meat: what has happened, it seems to me, is that we have got used to being able to source meat at a price which enables us to regard it as a daily essential (that certainly wasn't the case 40-50 years ago).
> 
> Clearly, those economies have been achieved at a price, and I guess that finding horse meat in our food supply is an example of that price.
> 
> ...


 
I'm not sure if I agree with that - The way I see it ultra cheap meat comes at the price of factory farming (which I don't really have a problem with), still though, just coz it's cheap there's no reason for dogfood to be going in the mix. What I'm trying to say is cheap meat is never going to be great quality but that's not to say that dangerous substances ending up in there are an inevitable consequence of it's cheapness.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

like cost cutting, privatisation etc don't lead to dangerous working conditions and less pay?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> like cost cutting, privatisation etc don't lead to dangerous working conditions and less pay?


 
Of course they do - And dogfood getting into the mix is most definitely a pretty much inevitable consequence of privatisation and lax regulation. But it most certainly isn't an inevitable consequence of factory farming per se. I'm quite happy to buy £2 per kilo minced beef knowing it's typically 23% fat and contains skull fragments and connective tissue and all that good stuff (it makes a decent chilli, the fat offsets the hotness and you're only going to shit it out anyway), now that's as it should be, but there's no reason for unfit for human consumption meat ending up in mince and burgers _as an inevitable consequence of factory farming_ - The only reason unfit meat is being sneaked in is corruption/lax regulations.


----------



## junglevip (Feb 8, 2013)

A case for eating a predominantly vegetarian diet if ever there was one.  Only eat animals that you kill and butcher yourself is the way to go.  I personally have done that myself but have not gone the 'whole hog' *ahem*.  I only by meat I buy these days is stuff that I stand a pretty good chance of knowing what animals  it is I am eating.

Shin of beef is my main thing at the mo, about 50g per serving.  Its basically stock; root veg is the bulk; it is in season, cheap and I am pretty certain the carrots I just ate, are actually carrots.


----------



## existentialist (Feb 8, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> I'm not sure if I agree with that - The way I see it ultra cheap meat comes at the price of factory farming (which I don't really have a problem with), still though, just coz it's cheap there's no reason for dogfood to be going in the mix. What I'm trying to say is cheap meat is never going to be great quality but that's not to say that dangerous substances ending up in there are an inevitable consequence of it's cheapness.


Thing is, it's a progressive thing. We got meat cheaper by industrialising the process of producing it: battery farming in the case of chickens, intensive feedlots in the case of cattle, being fed with corn, rather than grass. That introduces its own problems - rampant salmonella contamination in fowl, rampant E. coli infection in beef - but at least they're "natural" problems. And we get cheap meat.

Then we need cheaper meat. So we start feeding animals protein made from ground-up dead animals - it's more nutritious than grass OR corn, after all. And we discover that, in doing that, we've succeeded in transmitting a rather mundane sheep disease - scrapie - into the cattle food chain, as bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). That goes on for goodness knows how long before it's uncovered (despite the efforts of the government of the day to pretend there isn't a problem - seeing a picture?).

Meanwhile, they're trying to make meat even cheaper: so it becomes OK to make a beefburger with 49% beef. But it's not "meaty" enough, so we need "filler". No problem, we'll add protein. So we start using cheap sources - all the offcuts and odd bits of the cow that might otherwise get wasted are dried out, ground up, and added back in.

And once you've started reducing animals to a state of unrecognisability, to the point that the only way you can distinguish between one kind of animal and another is via DNA testing the material, then it becomes easy for people, either unscrupulously, or carelessly, to start supplying big sacks of "animal protein" that isn't cow, but something else. And, of course, if you can't even tell what species it is, what chance do you have of knowing whether it was a horse, aardvark, elephant or three-toed sloth *raised for human consumption* or something raised in a completely different way and unfit for human consumption.

I wouldn't go so far as to insist that all industrialised farming is a Bad Thing, or that we should never have done it...but once we started making compromises on the integrity of our food, we were opening a Pandora's box, and were always going to require some very, very close oversight to make sure bad things didn't happen. We clearly haven't done that - arguably, because at some point or another we got to the point where, without having the most ridiculously expensive and comprehensive inspection and traceability routines, it simply became too easy for someone to start introducing knacker's yard horse into the equation...


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 8, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> I'm not sure if I agree with that - The way I see it ultra cheap meat comes at the price of factory farming (which I don't really have a problem with), still though, just coz it's cheap there's no reason for dogfood to be going in the mix. What I'm trying to say is cheap meat is never going to be great quality but that's not to say that dangerous substances ending up in there are an inevitable consequence of it's cheapness.


 
Horses not for human consumption - which is what the FSA are saying it could well be and the cops are investigating this - are going to end up as dogfood. Well, thats whats meant to happen,


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 8, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Thing is, it's a progressive thing. We got meat cheaper by industrialising the process of producing it: battery farming in the case of chickens, intensive feedlots in the case of cattle, being fed with corn, rather than grass. That introduces its own problems - rampant salmonella contamination in fowl, rampant E. coli infection in beef - but at least they're "natural" problems. But we get cheap meat.
> 
> Then we need cheaper meat. So we start feeding animals protein made from ground-up dead animals - it's more nutritious than grass OR corn, after all. And we discover that, in doing that, we've succeeded in transmitting a rather mundane sheep disease - scrapie - into the cattle food chain, as bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). That goes on for goodness knows how long before it's uncovered (despite the efforts of the government of the day to pretend there isn't a problem - seeing a picture?).
> 
> ...


 
Absolutely, but if the very close oversights are introduced somewhere towards the end of paragraph three in your post I can't really see a problem.

E.coli's a shiitgerm - The only way E.coli's getting into the mix is coz of deskilled butchering practices. Though that is another side of the factory farming coin.

Good post though - But I can't really see an alternative to industrial farming, regulation is what's needed.


----------



## existentialist (Feb 8, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Absolutely, but if the very close oversights are introduced somewhere towards the end of paragraph three in your post I can't really see a problem.
> 
> E.coli's a shiitgerm - The only way E.coli's getting into the mix is coz of deskilled butchering practices. Though that is another side of the factory farming coin.
> 
> Good post though - But I can't really see an alternative to industrial farming, regulation is what's needed.


Yes, E. coli is a shitgerm, but the more dangerous varieties (eg 0157) seem to thrive in cattle which are not eating their natural diet (that'd be grass, then  ), and spreads like wildfire amongst cattle which are crammed into feedlots at densities far above what they would be at usually.

And then, as you say, you've got the high-speed lines in US abattoirs, low-skilled staff, and all the rest of it exacerbating the problem.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 8, 2013)

I was in a tesco express this evening and there was a poster promising to introduce DNA testing of all meats.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 8, 2013)

Another point, any profits from industrialised farming don't go to the farmers, they're sucked up by the supermarkets


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 8, 2013)

The FSA should have been doing such testing anyway, although it probably comes under the remit of Trading Standards. I guess it was fine having each local council responsible for running a Trading Standards service when everyone bought food at their local market, but with national supply and distribution, we really need a national Trading Standards organisation to get on top of this shit. Or they could just transfer responsibility to the FSA who as far as I am aware are only responsible for domestic slaughterhouses and have no remit over imported meat in shops.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 8, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Cat meat probably does get in to the production process somewhere along the line.


 
How?


----------



## existentialist (Feb 8, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> The FSA should have been such testing anyway, although it probably comes under the remit of Trading Standards. I guess it was fine having each local council responsible for running a Trading Standards service when everyone bought food at their local market, but with national supply and distribution, we really need a national Trading Standards organisation to get on top of this shit. Or they could just transfer responsibility to the FSA who as far as I am aware are only responsible for domestic slaughterhouses and have remit over imported meat in shops.


DNA testing is expensive, though.

And has never been needed before, because the scope for sneaking other species into the food supply hasn't ever been as great. Or as profitable.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 8, 2013)

existentialist said:


> DNA testing is expensive, though.


 
No it isn't. Kits like this are only £200 or so. That's for testing 100 products. Even cheaper to make your own kits if you're doing it large scale and long term


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 8, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> Another point, any profits from industrialised farming don't go to the farmers, they're sucked up by the supermarkets


 
That, again, isn't a problem that's intrinsic to industrial farming, it's just the way it's done ATM.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 8, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> I was in a tesco express this evening and there was a poster promising to introduce DNA testing of all meats.


 
I was in one too, didn't notice a sign but it could have been there. I bought tesco minced beef and I wondered, what does it actually have in it ?


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 8, 2013)

So....prices will be going up, I guess.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 8, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> So....prices will be going up, I guess.


 
That's how it's going to go for sure.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 8, 2013)

One would have almost have thought that they may have even done this on purpose.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 8, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> One would have almost have thought that they may have even done this on purpose.


Not Findus, at least I doubt. 100% horse in Lasagne. Not sure people will trust them in the future.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 9, 2013)

Find our crispy pancakes


----------



## dylans (Feb 9, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Not Findus, at least I doubt. 100% horse in Lasagne. Not sure people will trust them in the future.


There is an article in the Guardian here talking about the business concerns of Findus and saying that they are already struggling financially and were planning on taking the whole company up market. Now that strategy is ruined. This could bring the company down




> The company, which was bought by the private equity firm Lion Capital for £1.1bn in 2008, also owns the Young's Seafood brand. It has been struggling financially after it was loaded with huge debts, and was forced into a major restructuring last year, including a £220m cash injection.
> 
> A source familiar with Findus's operations said there has been "huge pressure" to lower the company's costs as it struggles to take its products upmarket.
> 
> ...


The best thing that can happen from Findus' point of view is if something else turns up with one or more of their competitors and this thing becomes a wider scandal. Otherwise they are going to feel the wrath of customers for the whole scandal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/...candal-findus-reputation?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 9, 2013)

food standards agency 'abolished' 2010, horses in our food 2012?


----------



## dylans (Feb 9, 2013)

> It (Findus) had begun withdrawing its products from shops across the UK on Monday after an alert from its supplier, French manufacturer Comigel, that there "might be an issue with labelling". Damage-limitation PR experts Burson Marsteller, hired by Findus, offered *the dubious reassurance that its product was only 15% "beef" anyway*


*.*http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/08/horsemeat-scandal-more-to-come


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 9, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> That, again, isn't a problem that's intrinsic to industrial farming, it's just the way it's done ATM.


And what about the huge ecological damage?

I think you're being dangerously naive about industrial farming, it has caused serious health, ecological and social problems both in the UK and worldwide.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 9, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> And what about the huge ecological damage?
> 
> I think you're being dangerously naive about industrial farming, it has caused serious health, ecological and social problems both in the UK and worldwide.


 
I don't think I'm being naive - An industrial population needs feeding - It's going to be industrial scran. Damage is going to be done, but this is a road we have chosen (by we I don't mean you or I individually, that should go without saying but...), the only thing AFAIC is to minimise the damage.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> I was in a tesco express this evening and there was a poster promising to introduce DNA testing of all meats.


 
They should have a little stall, next to the cheese tasting, for the burger testing. They could give out prizes for whoever finds traces of cow in their products.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 9, 2013)

If they are about to start DNA testing all meat products as a result of this, I strongly suspect that a whole range of products at the economy end of the market are going to found to be full of shite.
I hope Greggs steakbakes are safe!


----------



## existentialist (Feb 9, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> No it isn't. Kits like this are only £200 or so. That's for testing 100 products. Even cheaper to make your own kits if you're doing it large scale and long term


Well, that's cheaper than I'd heard, but I imagine that in an industry where it's OK to use ground up horses to shave a few pence off the cost of the product, even that's going to be unwelcome!


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

They don't need to (and in most cases cannot) test every individual product and we wouldn't be trusting industry to do it anyway. There are various quality assurance schemes which are voluntary or compulsory and it is the industry which pays the costs of being certified. They don't get a choice if these conditions are imposed. All they can do is lobby until the regulations are relaxed and then another scandal happens and the cycle continues.

Having said that, quality assurance schemes have been privatised (the old British Safety Institute of kitemark fame is now a private company competing with other private companies for quality assurance certification). This is a terrible way to do it and quite possibly one of the causal factors here.


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

On causal factors, I'd say most of the blame lies with the supermarkets and the intolerable pressure they put on their suppliers.

For Findus specifically, it seems to be the private equity buy out in 2008 (which occurred when they were already struggling, as is usually the case with private equity buy-outs). They did the usual thing of loading the company with debt to pay themselves enormous dividends and fees, sacking non-essential staff (like those responsible for traceability and quality standards), and then leaving the company to sink or swim and the creditors to pick up the bill if it fails.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 9, 2013)

Horses for courses.

Anyone said that yet?


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

There's a thread search facility. Check for yourself ya lazy cunt.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 9, 2013)

Who here has played the "have you ever eaten...?" game. 

Y'know where you all examine how adventurous you are with food. 

Have you ever eaten:
Rabbit
Duck
Shark
Squid
Horse

Before we get to:
Dog
Rat
Snake
Insects
Etc. 

I now find it amusing that the number of people who have to answer to Horse 'um yes probably' has risen dramatically. 
I'd already had horse steak in France so I wasn't affected.


----------



## dylans (Feb 9, 2013)

I have a feeling that this may be just the start of the crisis. The Independent is now reporting that meat products have contained horse for at least 6 months and horse meat may have even got into school and hospital meals. Aldi now confirm that their own brand lasagne and spaghetti also contains 100% horse.

All they need to do now is find some banned drugs in the food and this will get really serious.




> Supermarkets alerted to the contamination earlier this week were told “that the raw materials delivered since 1 August 2012, are likely to non-conform... ” As the crisis spread, Aldi admitted that its frozen own-brand lasagnes and spaghetti bolognese – also containing meat from Comigel – contained up to 100 per cent horse DNA.
> 
> Britain’s biggest supermarket chain, Tesco, said it was still awaiting test results on its own-brand spaghetti bolognese. The disclosures suggest that many tens of thousands of British people have been unwittingly eating horse meat. Public health scientists fear that the covertly added meat may have traces of the banned veterinary drug “bute”, which is harmful to humans in large amounts.
> 
> The FSA had “ordered food businesses” to test processed beef products and was trying to find out if schools and hospitals had received adulterated meat.


 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...als-horse-in-beef-for-six-months-8486602.html


----------



## spring-peeper (Feb 9, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Who here has played the "have you ever eaten...?" game.
> 
> Y'know where you all examine how adventurous you are with food.
> 
> ...




Duck is the only thing on the list I've tried.


----------



## Pingu (Feb 9, 2013)

on the plus side if this has been going on for ages the risks of people contracting CJD have just dropped significantly


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

Duck and squid don't belong on that list at all. Not at all unusual, stocked in every medium-sized supermarket and regulars on pub menus let alone restaurant menus. Usually called calamari (breaded squid rings) in pubs.

I've eaten shark, caught in my presence minutes before it was cooked.


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

Ponyutd said:


> The FSAI said the meat came from two processing plants in Ireland, Liffey Meats and Silvercrest Foods, and the Dalepak Hambleton plant in Yorkshire.
> It said they posed no health risk.


It may not pose health risks but it does go against the human rights freedom of choice, choosing what to eat and all that...


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 9, 2013)

What they mean by "poses no health risk" is "poses no health risk in so far as we are aware, given that we don't even know what this horse meat concoction consists of or where it came from".


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

What i do not understand, is why buy burgers in the first place? Maybe they were of the sort that one could not make at home... like adding a little extra spice or even horsemeat!!! because homemade burgers are not only cheaper to make but incredibly easy...


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> What they mean by "poses no health risk" is "poses no health risk in so far as we are aware, given that we don't even know what this horse meat concoction consists of or where it came from".


agree with that


----------



## Gromit (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> Duck and squid don't belong on that list at all. Not at all unusual, stocked in every medium-sized supermarket and regulars on pub menus let alone restaurant menus. Usually called calamari (breaded squid rings) in pubs.
> 
> I've eaten shark, caught in my presence minutes before it was cooked.



To you. To some duck is far from it. They are cute duckies wuckies and although they eat chicken wont eat duck. 
As for squid you eat them slimy tentacled things from the sea Ewwww! Etc.

Beef, pork, chicken and lamb are considered the main meats and anything else out of the every day ordinary. To the British at least. Even turkey is as every day as chicken etc.


----------



## Favelado (Feb 9, 2013)

Calamari just means squid. Nowt to do with bread or rings. My other posts will be better than this.


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 9, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Who here has played the "have you ever eaten...?" game.
> 
> Y'know where you all examine how adventurous you are with food.
> 
> ...


The only ones I've not knowingly tried are rat and dog, not that I wouldn't I just haven't had the chance.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 9, 2013)

Waitrose have microwavable rabbit ready meals now.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 9, 2013)

Has anyone here ever eaten a cat?


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## Callum91 (Feb 9, 2013)

Drei said:


> What i do not understand, is why buy burgers in the first place? Maybe they were of the sort that one could not make at home... like adding a little extra spice or even horsemeat!!! because homemade burgers are not only cheaper to make but incredibly easy...


Because everyone has the time to be making burgers, don't they?


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## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> Because everyone has the time to be making burgers, don't they?


there's always time to make burgers... sunday roasts are still made at home and they take a lot longer to cook...


----------



## teqniq (Feb 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Has anyone here ever eaten a cat?


Yes, but I'm alright Meeeow!

*gets coat*


----------



## 8ball (Feb 9, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> Because everyone has the time to be making burgers, don't they?


 
I guess that's the thing - making burgers wouldn't be that much of a bind, but burgers are the type of thing bought by people with either very little money or extremely little time.  You could get rid of burgers but another kind of mucky processed food would take up the slack.


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## existentialist (Feb 9, 2013)

Drei said:


> What i do not understand, is why buy burgers in the first place? Maybe they were of the sort that one could not make at home... like adding a little extra spice or even horsemeat!!! because homemade burgers are not only cheaper to make but incredibly easy...


I think a lot of people both overestimate the skill needed to make food (helped, almost undoubtedly, by the relentless advertising which paints easy tasks as "hard" then offers an "easy" solution out of a packet), and underestimate their own ability to the extent that they feel it'd be too hard to do this.

You hear a lot of people saying "I can't cook", but when you enquire more closely, it's more that they're nervous of trying.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 9, 2013)

Will this make horsemeat MORE or LESS attractive to eat now? Won't people think that if they didn't notice the difference, it can't be that bad, so they might as well try it?


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

8ball said:


> I guess that's the thing - making burgers wouldn't be that much of a bind, but burgers are the type of thing bought by people with either very little money or extremely little time. You could get rid of burgers but another kind of mucky processed food would take up the slack.


true... but if anyone can buy burgers cheaper than if they were to make them, then they shouldn't expect 100% prime beef... then again, i didn't know horse was cheaper :O


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## bi0boy (Feb 9, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Will this make horsemeat MORE or LESS attractive to eat now? Won't people think that if they didn't notice the difference, it can't be that bad, so they might as well try it?


 
The reason most people in the UK don't eat horse meat has nothing to do with what they perceive it might taste like.


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> The reason most people in the UK don't eat horse meat has nothing to do with what they perceive it might taste like.


it's the thought of eating a loved animal rather than taste, however, the british used to be greater 100 years ago than they are currently on their tastebuds... they are the kuala versions of the human race... how many kids still don't know chips are made from potatoes?


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## Orang Utan (Feb 9, 2013)

I've discussed this with others and not one person so far has seemed revolted by the idea of eating horse. It's made me curious for sure


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> I've discussed this with others and not one person so far has seemed revolted by the idea of eating horse. It's made me curiosity for sure


revolted maybe not, but for the same reasons i would not eat cat/dog/rabbit/rat/eagle/humans, i would not eat horse, and thank god i make my own burgers... i.e. i heard, horse, is a very tough meat


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

Drei said:


> there's always time to make burgers... sunday roasts are still made at home and they take a lot longer to cook...


If you're a smug, ignorant twat, yes. If you have to hold down two jobs to make ends meet, there are no shops selling fresh food in your local area and the busfare to shops selling decent food adds 10% to the cost of what you can carry home and then only if you're lucky enough to have free childcare available, you might think differently. If you are, in fact, capable of thought.


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## weltweit (Feb 9, 2013)

We don't raise horses or for that matter dogs for the table. It is no wonder to me then that people are annoyed if they are sold horse meat masquerading as beef. Quite apart from the medicines the horses may have been given which may be harmful to humans.


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Will this make horsemeat MORE or LESS attractive to eat now? Won't people think that if they didn't notice the difference, it can't be that bad, so they might as well try it?


If you have the money. At the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time, horsemeat that is fit for human consumption is more expensive than beef and doesn't really come in cheaper versions, just the luxury stuff. They're not very efficient at converting feed into flesh.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 9, 2013)

How come it made its way into burgers then?


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> If you're a smug, ignorant twat, yes. If you have to hold down two jobs to make ends meet, there are no shops selling fresh food in your local area and the busfare to shops selling decent food adds 10% to the cost of what you can carry home and then only if you're lucky enough to have free childcare available, you might think differently. If you are, in fact, capable of thought.


i did mention above that "if anyone can buy burgers cheaper than if they were to make them, then they shouldn't expect 100% prime beef" i live in the Channel Islands, nowhere is too far!!! however, where there's a will there's a way, even if i had to make them and freeze them down i'd find a way, if i have time to be on this forum, i could skip it once to make burgers )


----------



## existentialist (Feb 9, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> How come it made its way into burgers then?


Because the horsemeat that has ended up in burgers is almost certainly not horsemeat raised for human consumption.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 9, 2013)

Ok, but it seems that it WAS fit for human consumption after all


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> If you're a smug, ignorant twat, yes. If you have to hold down two jobs to make ends meet, there are no shops selling fresh food in your local area and the busfare to shops selling decent food adds 10% to the cost of what you can carry home and then only if you're lucky enough to have free childcare available, you might think differently. If you are, in fact, capable of thought.


p.s. not smug, maybe a little ignorant... very opinionated... you however, very angry at the cost!!! maybe we should talk about that?


----------



## existentialist (Feb 9, 2013)

Drei said:


> i did mention above that "if anyone can buy burgers cheaper than if they were to make them, then they shouldn't expect 100% prime beef" i live in the Channel Islands, nowhere is too far!!! however, where there's a will there's a way, even if i had to make them and freeze them down i'd find a way, if i have time to be on this forum, i could skip it once to make burgers )


TBF, ymu's point is a good one, and perhaps the Channel Islands experience isn't entirely typical. I live in a pretty impoverished part of the country, and there IS quite a gulf between those who have transport, resources and time to get around buying decent food, and those who are reliant on supermarkets and/or cheap frozen food to feed their families.

Also, you may be underestimating how difficult it seems to someone who hasn't ever done it (or who hasn't got a freezer) to cook food from scratch, prepare it, package it, and store it. To achieve that, quite a lot of households, quite apart from merely skilling up, would also need to acquire a decent cooker, pans, food prep equipment (mixer, mincer, food processor), not to mention the packaging and stuff for freezing it in. To a household on a budget, that's going to look like a big mountain to climb, even if it saves them money in the long term.


----------



## existentialist (Feb 9, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Ok, but it seems that it WAS fit for human consumption after all


Does it? I think we've got ministers blowing smoke at the moment, and being careful not to say it wasn't fit for human consumption, on the basis that that hasn't been proven yet - all very John Gummer hamburger, if you ask me.


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## CyberRose (Feb 9, 2013)

Could be worse...


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## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

existentialist said:


> TBF, ymu's point is a good one, and perhaps the Channel Islands experience isn't entirely typical. I live in a pretty impoverished part of the country, and there IS quite a gulf between those who have transport, resources and time to get around buying decent food, and those who are reliant on supermarkets and/or cheap frozen food to feed their families.
> 
> Also, you may be underestimating how difficult it seems to someone who hasn't ever done it (or who hasn't got a freezer) to cook food from scratch, prepare it, package it, and store it. To achieve that, quite a lot of households, quite apart from merely skilling up, would also need to acquire a decent cooker, pans, food prep equipment (mixer, mincer, food processor), not to mention the packaging and stuff for freezing it in. To a household on a budget, that's going to look like a big mountain to climb, even if it saves them money in the long term.


not underestimating it at all, nor is my achievement to insult those that buy processed meals or praise those that cook from fresh.merely giving an opinion to get my point through... who in the world can put their hands up and say they never brought any processed foods? not me, if anyone.
never did anyone expect it to be 100% prime beef, at cheap costs. otherwise other competitors would be in there too.
This isn't about the "HORSE" it's about the lack of respect these food makers have given us, the amounts used was no accident. Why weren't people told? it's an outrage. 
However, they don't care either, they just got found out that's all. What will the rest of us do? Just like you said, it's too difficult for everyone to put them in their place and go elsewhere.


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> How come it made its way into burgers then?


"Fit for human consumption." Old nags are cheap as chips.


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

Drei said:


> i did mention above that "if anyone can buy burgers cheaper than if they were to make them, then they shouldn't expect 100% prime beef" i live in the Channel Islands, nowhere is too far!!! however, where there's a will there's a way, even if i had to make them and freeze them down i'd find a way, if i have time to be on this forum, i could skip it once to make burgers )


That's because you're just better than all those stupid people, obviously. Especially at being a smug, ignorant cunt.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 9, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Because the horsemeat that has ended up in burgers is almost certainly not horsemeat raised for human consumption.


 
This. Horse meat raised for human consumption would go to the Italian and French markets where its considered a delicacy with prices to match. Not into cheap burgers and ready meals.


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## Frances Lengel (Feb 9, 2013)

Drei said:


> i did mention above that "if anyone can buy burgers cheaper than if they were to make them, then they shouldn't expect 100% prime beef" i live in the Channel Islands, nowhere is too far!!! however, where there's a will there's a way, even if i had to make them and freeze them down i'd find a way, if i have time to be on this forum, i could skip it once to make burgers )


 
Living in the channel islands is nothing to be proud of - Your lot were eating German sausage during the war.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 9, 2013)

dylans said:


> There is an article in the Guardian here talking about the business concerns of Findus and saying that they are already struggling financially and were planning on taking the whole company up market. Now that strategy is ruined. This could bring the company down
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Saddled with huge debts?


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Living in the channel islands is nothing to be proud of - Your lot were eating German sausage during the war.


Ah c'mon. That's a shit comment when there's so much wrong with what she actually said. Especially when she's a brand new poster diving into a very long thread without bothering to read it. Plenty of valid kickings to hand out.

Read the FAQ Drei, it'll help you avoid getting jumped on from quite such a great height.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> Ah c'mon. That's a shit comment when there's so much wrong with what she actually said. Especially when she's a brand new poster diving into a very long thread without bothering to read it. Plenty of valid kickings to hand out.
> 
> Read the FAQ Drei, it'll help you avoid getting jumped on from quite such a great height.


 
Soz, you're right of course - Sometimes though, the lure of the peurile is too much to resist.


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> Ah c'mon. That's a shit comment when there's so much wrong with what she actually said. Especially when she's a brand new poster diving into a very long thread without bothering to read it. Plenty of valid kickings to hand out.
> 
> Read the FAQ Drei, it'll help you avoid getting jumped on from quite such a great height.


what exactly have i said that is so wrong & against your opinion? I have read this discussion and I'm open to a debate with you whether we agree or not about each others opinion! so that this isn't all back tracked to individual words, tell me? & please be polite, i'm sure we can debate without falling to the level of name calling...
just to clarify, when i noted that im on the channel islands, that was meant to say that nowhere is too far to travel... if YOU read this thread then maybe YOU wont be jumping into conclusions, at no time did i say i am better than anyone  but maybe you think that... to which, thanks


----------



## 8115 (Feb 9, 2013)

The Guardian says horsemeat suspected to have got into the food chain as a part of fraud including frauds by Italian and Polish mafia gangs, which does not surprise me, if it's been happening on such a big scale it had to be well organised. It's a really interesting article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/09/horsemeat-scandal-international-fraud

Sorry if anyone has already posted this, I did look back.

edited for accuracy


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> That's because you're just better than all those stupid people, obviously. Especially at being a smug, ignorant cunt.


to say you're a member since 2005 this is very impolite... jumping onto the newbie like a horse, careful they may put you into a burger.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 9, 2013)

Not much poultry on the shelves in Tesco today, and the first time ever I've seen a queue at the meat counter.


----------



## Libertad (Feb 9, 2013)

Damn you ymu and your continued impoliteness


----------



## KeeperofDragons (Feb 9, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Saddled with huge debts?


Now that made me ROFLMAO definitely got my silly hat on today


----------



## TopCat (Feb 9, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Because the horsemeat that has ended up in burgers is almost certainly not horsemeat raised for human consumption.


This


----------



## 8115 (Feb 9, 2013)

TopCat said:


> This


 
It could be, seems that there's a lot of horsemeat for human consumption in some parts of Europe.  Difficult to imagine that it's significantly cheaper than beef although it could be and, economies of scale.  Might not still be at UK standards.

It could be petfood horse, though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 9, 2013)

Are there battery horses? Can't think how it would be economic otherwise.


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 9, 2013)

I just ate some Linda McCartney pies - should I be worried ?


----------



## Mephitic (Feb 9, 2013)

gentlegreen said:


> I just ate some Linda McCartney pies - should I be worried ?


 
They usually contain 0% of Linda McCartney, however they may contain up to 40% of Yoko Ono.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 9, 2013)

Bute bute I don't want a dead racehorse burger.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 9, 2013)

This story is going to run and run.


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## 8115 (Feb 9, 2013)

TopCat said:


> Bute bute I don't want a dead racehorse burger.



Eat your racehorse burger up and you can have ice cream afterwards.


----------



## Drei (Feb 9, 2013)

Mephitic said:


> They usually contain 0% of Linda McCartney, however they may contain up to 40% of Yoko Ono.


at least horse hasn't yet been found in these ones


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 10, 2013)

gentlegreen said:


> I just ate some Linda McCartney pies - should I be worried ?


 
Yes. It appears your taste buds are dead.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 10, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Are there battery horses? Can't think how it would be economic otherwise.


 
Doesn't cost much to round up and shoot a wild horse in Romania.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 10, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Doesn't cost much to round up and shoot a wild horse in Romania.


 
Domesticated ones are also an important form of transport in Romania; I expect there's a version of "We buy any...horse"?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 10, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Domesticated ones are also an important form of transport in Romania; I expect there's a version of "We buy any...horse"?


 
Vorsprung durch Esel.


----------



## treelover (Feb 10, 2013)

''Experts within the horse slaughter industry have told the _Observer_ there is evidence that both Polish and Italian mafia gangs are running multimillion-pound scams to substitute horsemeat for beef during food production. There are claims that vets and other officials working within abattoirs and food production plants are intimidated into signing off meat as beef when it is in fact cheaper alternatives such as pork or horse.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/09/horsemeat-scandal-international-fraud''



Misha Glenny's ''McMafia'' was very prescient in documenting the writing the rise of these organised crime cartels which have their fingers in many many pies(pun intended), perhaps yet another example of the often baleful consequences of globalisation.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 10, 2013)

" the price of horse meat has recently fallen dramatically in Romania following a new law there banning horses-and-carts on the highway."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21401111


----------



## brogdale (Feb 10, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> " the price of horse meat has recently fallen dramatically in Romania following a new law there banning horses-and-carts on the highway."
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21401111


 
Bit like the car scappage scheme, then? Except the 'scrap' ends up not in the coverters at the steel works, but in the food for the proles.


----------



## treelover (Feb 10, 2013)

btw, I suspect this is one  of the reasons why inflation hasn't increased massively, the food industry has been keeping prices relatively low and in some cases ridiculously cheap by all these various methods...


----------



## brogdale (Feb 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> btw, I suspect this is one of the reasons why inflation hasn't increased massively, the food industry has been keeping prices relatively low and in some cases ridiculously cheap by all these various methods...


 
No, they're having their horse and eating it; food price inflation outstrips general inflation rises.


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> If you're a smug, ignorant twat, yes. If you have to hold down two jobs to make ends meet, there are no shops selling fresh food in your local area and the busfare to shops selling decent food adds 10% to the cost of what you can carry home and then only if you're lucky enough to have free childcare available, you might think differently. If you are, in fact, capable of thought.


But harsh I think. Unless you're not freezing them and and making them fresh every time, burgers don't take a long time to make (just mix mince, onions, etc) and the ingredients are available from pretty much any shop within walking distance (unless you live in the countryside?). Cost wise, if you got lean mince, your burgers would be on a par with a brand like Birdseye. If you got value mince, your burgers would be on a par with supermarket own brand value burgers.

But...I'm single and have all the time in the world to do what I want. Before every payday I make a food plan for the month and spend the first week cooking stuff that I can freeze so I'm sorted for the month (this means I watch what I spend and also guarantee I don't go hungry!). This is a hobby of mine and I do spend quite a bit of time doing it that first week (but this is off set by only having to spend as much time as it takes to boil rice etc the rest of the month so I am saving time in the long run but it's whether you have that time to start with?). I have a friend who does have kids and does similar to me and him and his wife can work pretty unsociable hours at times (he used to get stocked up on Netto frozen foods for obvious reasons but will now make shepherds pies, chillis or bologneses etc and whack it all in the freezer).

Saying that, if I was conscious of the time, I think I could still make very healthy and very cheap meals for the freezer that would last a month in the same time it would take to cook a meal consisting of cheap supermarket burgers so maybe time's not that much of an argument against cooking? Depends what you cook?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Feb 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> ''Experts within the horse slaughter industry have told the _Observer_ there is evidence that both Polish and Italian mafia gangs are running multimillion-pound scams to substitute horsemeat for beef during food production. There are claims that vets and other officials working within abattoirs and food production plants are intimidated into signing off meat as beef when it is in fact cheaper alternatives such as pork or horse.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/09/horsemeat-scandal-international-fraud''
> 
> ...



So what happens to the officials that refuse to comply with these mafia gangs then?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 10, 2013)

pinkmonkey said:


> So what happens to the officials that refuse to comply with these mafia gangs then?


 
Horse's head in the bed?


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 10, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Horse's head in the bed?


Turns out they've been putting donkeys heads in beds for years now...


----------



## treelover (Feb 10, 2013)

Sky News just had a very long interview with a whistle-blower in the meat industry, he claimed that most meat after packaging to distributors is unidentifiable as to origin and went on to describe some shocking descriptions of the processes involved.

as a Veggie, wondering about Quorn now, its now owned by a multi-national...


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> Sky News just has a very long interview with a whistle-blower in the meat industry, he claimed that most meat after packaging to distributors is unidentifiable as to origin and went on to describe some shocking descriptions of the processes involved
> 
> as a Veggie, wondering about Quorn now, its now owned by a multi-national...


Well, if there's any meat products cheaper than the ingredients of Quorn...


----------



## existentialist (Feb 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> as a Veggie, wondering about Quorn now, its now owned by a multi-national...


I've never liked Quorn - as someone who's veggie because I find meat distasteful, it's just a bit too realistic for my liking.

But against that background, I have to say that I find the idea of quite such highly-processed food rather unpalatable for the same reasons that, if I were a meat-eater, I'd be turning my nose up at meat products that weren't identifiably from a particular animal...


----------



## Drei (Feb 10, 2013)

Well done to those that were doing their jobs properly and found this out. And "even though it's not right" hopefully it is from Romania etc, at least it would be decent horse meat & not ((pet food)) meat.


----------



## secret squirrel (Feb 11, 2013)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...itish-supermarkets-may-be-donkey-8489030.html


----------



## pinkmonkey (Feb 11, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Horse's head in the bed?


I was expecting them to end up in the burgers as well!  Maybe they become Quorn?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 11, 2013)

pinkmonkey said:


> I was expecting them to end up in the burgers as well!  Maybe they become Quorn?


No, quorn is made from the processed flesh of foxhounds retired from THE quorn hunt.


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 11, 2013)

Observed on the way to work this morning ...


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 11, 2013)

gentlegreen said:


> Observed on the way to work this morning ...



You have something from Some Mothers Do Ave Em as your personal theme tune? 

Does it follow you as you cycle? Say, on a unicycle, teetering precariously with a plasterer's lathe in hand, gripping hold of a runaway fridge attached to the back of a lorry?


----------



## Drei (Feb 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I bet you've had some fantastic donkey sausage etc


& ass burgers too


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 11, 2013)

mrs quoad said:


> You have something from Some Mothers Do Ave Em as your personal theme tune?


 


I wish I'd stopped for a close-up of the bag of mince.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 11, 2013)

Drei said:


> & ass burgers too


I once attended an NA meeting, in which two people (one Canadian, one Bradfordian) were in undisentangleable conniptions of hilarity.

It turned out that the Bradfordian had been telling the Canadian about his brother, who has Aspergers, on their walk to the church hall. The Canadian was 400% incapable of grasping the Bradfordian twang, and took about half an hour of repeated explanations to understand what the flaming hell 'ass burgers' were, and why the hell they might have such an impact on someone's brother.


----------



## Drei (Feb 11, 2013)

mrs quoad said:


> I once attended an NA meeting, in which two people (one Canadian, one Bradfordian) were in undisentangleable conniptions of hilarity.
> 
> It turned out that the Bradfordian had been telling the Canadian about his brother, who has Aspergers, on their walk to the church hall. The Canadian was 400% incapable of grasping the Bradfordian twang, and took about half an hour of repeated explanations to understand what the flaming hell 'ass burgers' were, and why the hell they might have such an impact on someone's brother.


I take it back


----------



## ddraig (Feb 11, 2013)

quorn is a fungus, eeeewwww and ych a fi


----------



## coley (Feb 11, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Are there battery horses? Can't think how it would be economic otherwise.


No, they tend to run on hay and carrots


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 11, 2013)

coley said:


> No, they tend to run on hay and carrots


Hard to run on that, you'd slip.


----------



## coley (Feb 11, 2013)

......straight into the mincer


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 12, 2013)

Pah!



> At the same time in public meetings and in petitions to Parliament rose the cry of the London journeymen bakers against their over-work, &c. The cry was so urgent that Mr. H. S. Tremenheere, also a member of the Commission of 1863 several times mentioned, was appointed Royal Commissioner of Inquiry. His report. [45] together with the evidence given, roused not the heart of the public but its stomach. Englishmen, always well up in the Bible, knew well enough that man, unless by elective grace a capitalist, or landlord, or sinecurist, is commanded to eat his bread in the sweat of his brow, but they did not know that he had to eat daily in his bread a certain quantity of human perspiration mixed with the discharge of abscesses, cobwebs, dead black-beetles, and putrid German yeast, without counting alum, sand, and other agreeable mineral ingredients.


----------



## coley (Feb 12, 2013)

coley said:


> ......straight into the mincer





butchersapron said:


> Pah!



Bread wi nowt tekkin owt


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 12, 2013)

Lamb now.

http://news.sky.com/story/1051123/scientist-lamb-meals-may-contain-horsemeat


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 12, 2013)

I've often bought those 80p lasagnes and shepherds pies from Morrisons. I have no doubt whatsoever that they must contain horse meat as well and it's only a matter of time before I find out (80p ffs!!). What I want to know is, if there are no health risks, why are all these products being thrown out? I liked my 80p ready meals (well, they served a lazy hangover purpose) and that won't change retrospectively, so why can't I have the option to buy an absolute shit load of Findus ready meals? For the price they're currently worth, I could stock up my freezer with a year's worth of weekend hangover meals for about a tenner. Just seems like a huge waste


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 12, 2013)

CyberRose said:


> I've often bought those 80p lasagnes and shepherds pies from Morrisons. I have no doubt whatsoever that they must contain horse meat as well and it's only a matter of time before I find out (80p ffs!!). What I want to know is, if there are no health risks, why are all these products being thrown out? I liked my 80p ready meals (well, they served a lazy hangover purpose) and that won't change retrospectively, so why can't I have the option to buy an absolute shit load of Findus ready meals? For the price they're currently worth, I could stock up my freezer with a year's worth of weekend hangover meals for about a tenner. Just seems like a huge waste


 
Indeed I'd be happy to eat it, especailly with a nice discount. We ate more beef during the BSE scare as it was cheaper.


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 12, 2013)

I tell you what was a bigger scandal than this horse meat one - when I found out that shepherds pie was actually supposed to contain lamb, and all my life my mum had been putting minced beef in it!


----------



## Geri (Feb 12, 2013)

CyberRose said:


> I've often bought those 80p lasagnes and shepherds pies from Morrisons. I have no doubt whatsoever that they must contain horse meat as well and it's only a matter of time before I find out (80p ffs!!). What I want to know is, if there are no health risks, why are all these products being thrown out? I liked my 80p ready meals (well, they served a lazy hangover purpose) and that won't change retrospectively, so why can't I have the option to buy an absolute shit load of Findus ready meals? For the price they're currently worth, I could stock up my freezer with a year's worth of weekend hangover meals for about a tenner. Just seems like a huge waste


 
It is a waste but AFAIK you can't sell wrongly labelled products. I dealt with a claim once in which raspberry yoghurts had strawberry flavour in them by mistake and the whole lot had to be recalled from the shops. It cost them a lot of money.


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 12, 2013)

Geri said:


> It is a waste but AFAIK you can't sell wrongly labelled products. I dealt with a claim once in which raspberry yoghurts had strawberry flavour in them by mistake and the whole lot had to be recalled from the shops. It cost them a lot of money.


But can't they just stick a yellow sticker on with a warning like "product probably _does_ contain horse meat"?!


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 12, 2013)

CyberRose said:


> But can't they just stick a yellow sticker on with a warning like "product probably _does_ contain horse meat"?!


 
They don't know that the horse meat was slaughtered and processed in compliance with the appropriate legislation. They don't even know whether it's fit for human consumption, despite some suggestions to the contrary.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 12, 2013)

Owen Patterson looking totally out of his depth on the news right now. Bet he thought he had a cushy job before the shit hit the fan.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 12, 2013)

Welsh horses in kebabs now


----------



## weltweit (Feb 12, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Owen Patterson looking totally out of his depth on the news right now. Bet he thought he had a cushy job before the shit hit the fan.


 
What, there is shit in meat now? ...


----------



## weltweit (Feb 12, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Welsh horses in kebabs now


 
Mind you I have always assumed that when I buy a Doner it is just "cooked animal"...


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 12, 2013)

weltweit said:


> What, there is shit in meat now? ...


You should be so lucky


----------



## ddraig (Feb 12, 2013)

*Slaughterhouse and meat firm raided*
West Yorkshire and Wales
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21434077


> The Food Standards Agency suspended operations at both the raided premises, detained all meat found and seized paperwork, including customer lists from the two companies.
> The West Yorkshire plant was thought to have supplied horse carcasses to the Aberystwyth plant, which were then allegedly sold on as beef for kebabs and burgers.


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 12, 2013)

So it was us all along! And we had the audacity to blame the Romanians!!


----------



## prunus (Feb 12, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Mind you I have always assumed that when I buy a Doner it is just "cooked animal"...


 
And that's optimistic, tbh.


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 12, 2013)

Right, one thing this scandal has made me think is if we can't tell the difference between beef and horse, and it's cheaper, healthier and there's shit loads of it...why aren't we eating this stuff all the time?



> So, what does it taste like?
> Horse is a versatile meat that lends itself to a variety of preparations. It has more protein, and less fat than lean beef. It tastes somewhat like a mix between beef and venison. It can be a bit sweeter than other red meats, yet still possesses a dense meat flavor with a hint of gaminess.


 
Horse me up, please!


----------



## ddraig (Feb 12, 2013)

my colleague came back with a few aldi ready meals yesterday, he's loving it


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 12, 2013)

weltweit said:


> The only beef burgers I buy ever are Tesco Aberdeen Angus prime beef burgers. Seeing as they specify the actual type of cow I am hoping there is no chance of my eating horse!!


 
It wouldn't surprise me if you're wrong:

List of withdrawn products

"Aldi Frozen specially selected Aberdeen Angus quarter pounders"

That's marketing for you....


----------



## weltweit (Feb 12, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if you're wrong:
> List of withdrawn products
> "Aldi Frozen specially selected Aberdeen Angus quarter pounders"


Ooh eeerr .... sounds similar to what I get in Tescos.
And I was thinking of getting them Wednesday..
Wonders: Is Tesco Mince Beef any safer?


----------



## Fuchs66 (Feb 12, 2013)

CyberRose said:


> I tell you what was a bigger scandal than this horse meat one - when I found out that shepherds pie was actually supposed to contain lamb, and all my life my mum had been putting minced beef in it!


My mum used to tell us that it was made of shepherds, I thought we were a secret sect of cannibals until I found out it was lamb, one of the disappointments of my early life.


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 12, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Ooh eeerr .... sounds similar to what I get in Tescos.
> And I was thinking of getting them Wednesday..
> Wonders: Is Tesco Mince Beef any safer?


If the last pack didn't kill you the next one won't either!


----------



## kebabking (Feb 12, 2013)

weltweit said:


> ...Wonders: Is Tesco Mince Beef any safer?


 
why should it be?

any meat process where the animal leaves your sight between it being slaughtered and being served on your plate involves you trusting the retailer/producer - i would suggest that trusting a retailer who admits that they don't trust their producers is being overly charitable.

get down to your local butcher, watch him carve off a lump of meat from a beef carcass, then put it through a mincer, and then wrap it and give it to you.

that is security of supply -  your butcher will happily tell you where the cow came from, when it was slaughtered and where, and should you wish, he will produce all the paperwork to prove it.

while we have got away with this episode with the 'dodgy element' being horse meat that was probably destined for some form of consumption - human or animal - next time we may not be so lucky.


----------



## Geri (Feb 12, 2013)

Butchers never lie about where their meat comes from, oh no!


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 12, 2013)

Dunno, my local butcher looks a bit dodgy...


----------



## Geri (Feb 12, 2013)

I was being sarcastic. Someone I know was assured by her local butcher that she was buying Welsh lamb, and when she got home it had 'New Zealand' stamped on it.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 12, 2013)

If you go to the cold meat section of asda/morrisons/tesco etc. The little plastic labels on the joints, breasts and legs of ham/chicken/turkey/beefetc. all say less than 100% 'relevant meat'...so they're probably not real, either.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 12, 2013)

The uses that Bulgarian scoundrels are making of retired horsies are commendably entrepreneurial. But what's happening to all the carts?

Are they being passed off as luxury caravans? Perhaps they are stripped down, and fetch up in Heals labelled as distressed country-style wheeled dining tables? Passed through a wood-chipper, sprayed with non-brewed condiment and disguised as fish'n'chip sandwich filling?

Surely someone knows?


----------



## Callum91 (Feb 12, 2013)

I'd quite like McDonalds to be caught up in this whole scandal. They must all be shitting themselves.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 12, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> I'd quite like McDonalds to be caught up in this whole scandal. They must all be shitting themselves.


 
Someone asked them already:

*Is there any horse meat in you burgers? * 
 Thanks for your question. We can assure you that there is not. We only use whole cuts of 100% British and Irish beef in our burgers. This beef is sourced from Quality Assured farms that are fully traceable.



Burger King are in the shit though:

"British and Irish burger fans could face a Whopper shortage. Burger King has stopped buying beef from an Irish meat processor whose patties were found to contain traces of horsemeat."


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 12, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> ...Burger King are in the shit though:
> 
> "British and Irish burger fans could face a Whopper shortage. Burger King has stopped buying beef from an Irish meat processor whose patties were found to contain traces of horsemeat."


It'll all be gone now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 12, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> I'd quite like McDonalds to be caught up in this whole scandal. They must all be shitting themselves.


not really. they're already trying out such slogans as 'hot to trot: the mcfilly' on focus groups.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 12, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> not really. they're already trying out such slogans as 'hot to trot: the mcfilly' on focus groups.


 
Straight from the horse's mouth.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 12, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Straight from the horse's mouth.


'the mane attraction'


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 12, 2013)

They did it on the hoof, obviously.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 12, 2013)

Pork in Waitrose beef products.  Now the shit'll really hit the rotating thing.

http://news.sky.com/story/1051259/horsemeat-scandal-uk-slaughterhouse-raided



> e FSA and police are looking into the circumstances through which meat products, purporting to be beef for kebabs and burgers, were sold, which were in fact horse.
> The FSA has suspended operations at both sites while it investigates the first suspected instance of a UK abattoir passing off horsemeat as beef.
> Meanwhile, Waitrose has announced it is clearing the shelves of its Essential British Frozen Beef Meatballs after pork was detected in tests on two batches.


 
This shit just got religious.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 12, 2013)

Even Waitrose!


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 12, 2013)

Whatever next... rat meat in M&S sirloin steak?


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 12, 2013)

I'll start to feel sorry for the grey squirrel if this keeps up.


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 12, 2013)

I'll take the pork meatballs, fuck, I'll take horse meatballs! I was gonna make a sweet and sour sauce for them anyway, no way would I be tasting any kind of meat regardless!


----------



## IC3D (Feb 12, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Whatever next... rat meat in M&S sirloin steak?


Well my first thought when that rendering plant in Romania appeared on the news was very dark.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 12, 2013)

CyberRose said:


> I'll take the pork meatballs, fuck, I'll take horse meatballs! I was gonna make a sweet and sour sauce for them anyway, no way would I be tasting any kind of meat regardless!


 
Would you take racehorse with a cocktail of dodgy drugs and hormones meatballs?


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 12, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Would you take racehorse with a cocktail of dodgy drugs and hormones meatballs?


Yea, if I was going clubbing after!


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 12, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Would you take racehorse with a cocktail of dodgy drugs and hormones meatballs?


yyyyuuuup.    Not now, but when I was younger.


----------



## Firky (Feb 13, 2013)

Read that article on the BBC with the list of withdrawn products.

I can confirm I ate beef in the last fortnight 




> Frozen specially selected Aberdeen Angus quarter pounders


----------



## junglevip (Feb 13, 2013)




----------



## Ponyutd (Feb 13, 2013)

...and it's not the first time either.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-horsemeat-scandal


----------



## Drei (Feb 13, 2013)

CyberRose said:


> I've often bought those 80p lasagnes and shepherds pies from Morrisons. I have no doubt whatsoever that they must contain horse meat as well and it's only a matter of time before I find out (80p ffs!!). What I want to know is, if there are no health risks, why are all these products being thrown out? I liked my 80p ready meals (well, they served a lazy hangover purpose) and that won't change retrospectively, so why can't I have the option to buy an absolute shit load of Findus ready meals? For the price they're currently worth, I could stock up my freezer with a year's worth of weekend hangover meals for about a tenner. Just seems like a huge waste


Good point made


----------



## Drei (Feb 13, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Whatever next... rat meat in M&S sirloin steak?


Not really a Sirloin steak... just a rat with his tail chopped off


----------



## weltweit (Feb 13, 2013)

Drei said:


> Good point made


Not really. If people are buying a beef product I think it is reasoable to believe that there is no pork, lamb, or horse in it. In some cases it may be against someone's religion to eat a certain meat.

And it is not as if they can relabel the product, they have tested for horse in beef, so what happens if they relabel it as horse but have failed to identify that it also has pork in it?  It is a mess.


----------



## Drei (Feb 13, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Not really. If people are buying a beef product I think it is reasoable to believe that there is no pork, lamb, or horse in it. In some cases it may be against someone's religion to eat a certain meat.
> 
> And it is not as if they can relabel the product, they have tested for horse in beef, so what happens if they relabel it as horse but have failed to identify that it also has pork in it? It is a mess.


Oh i agree with you and it is a MESS... Which is probably why they threw it all out instead of relabelling these foods for those with a hangover.
I worry about it now  I wonder what they are not telling us and what am* i* consuming... Even when i went through my teens as a veggie, i was horrified to discover the meaning of the E numbers/Rennet/and Gelatine... I still wonder what else is hidden in our foods 

Do i really want to know?

I can imagine how many "religious" non Pork eaters brains will be ticking over this one... i want to giggle about it, but it is actually Not Funny


----------



## Drei (Feb 13, 2013)

Just like the; May Contain Nuts 
labels they put on products...
They should start labeling; may contain other animals


----------



## spring-peeper (Feb 13, 2013)

weltweit said:


> And it is not as if they can relabel the product, they have tested for horse in beef, so what happens if they relabel it as horse but have failed to identify that it also has pork in it?  It is a mess.



Why can't they relabel it?   

"May contain beef, pork, horse and other protein sources" should cover it.

eta:  like Drei says


----------



## agricola (Feb 13, 2013)

Drei said:


> Just like the; May Contain Nuts
> labels they put on products...
> They should start labeling; may contain other animals


 
Indeed.  I do fondly recall the old No Frills brand at Kwik Save, which used to include a beef and onion pie that had a warning on the side of the packet advising the purchaser that the product didnt contain any meat (it basically consisted of a very cheap pie top and bottom with a thin layer of gravy in the middle).


----------



## CyberRose (Feb 13, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Not really. If people are buying a beef product I think it is reasoable to believe that there is no pork, lamb, or horse in it.


And if they tell me this 80p lasagna might contain anything, but hey, you've been eating them for years and never complained, do you still want it at a knocked down price, why can't I get stocked up on them?


----------



## 8115 (Feb 13, 2013)

CyberRose said:


> And if they tell me this 80p lasagna might contain anything, but hey, you've been eating them for years and never complained, do you still want it at a knocked down price, why can't I get stocked up on them?


 
Meat is traceable and certifiable to make sure it's safe to be eaten.  For instance there are some medicines given to sheep (I think) and they can't be slaughtered for (say) 90 days after they've been treated, as humans shouldn't ingest that medicine.  There's a chemical called phenylbutazone that horses are sometimes treated with.  It's important that human's don't ingest this as it can cause illnesses such as a blood disorder.  So if you don't have traceability and documentation for the meat, you don't know if it's safe in this respect.

I think meat is probably more dangerous than other foodstuffs for these reasons, things like CJD etc are possible.  I mean, sure you don't want to eat radioactive vegetables or whatever but meat safety is seen as a high priority.

I'm not a food safety expert though.  But this is basically why people care.


----------



## 8115 (Feb 13, 2013)

Plus welfare considerations.


----------



## Drei (Feb 13, 2013)

8115 said:


> Meat is traceable and certifiable to make sure it's safe to be eaten. For instance there are some medicines given to sheep (I think) and they can't be slaughtered for (say) 90 days after they've been treated, as humans shouldn't ingest that medicine. There's a chemical called phenylbutazone that horses are sometimes treated with. It's important that human's don't ingest this as it can cause illnesses such as a blood disorder. So if you don't have traceability and documentation for the meat, you don't know if it's safe in this respect.
> 
> I think meat is probably more dangerous than other foodstuffs for these reasons, things like CJD etc are possible. I mean, sure you don't want to eat radioactive vegetables or whatever but meat safety is seen as a high priority.
> 
> I'm not a food safety expert though. But this is basically why people care.


You've hit the nail on the head there... they say it's safe but disposed of it all, it doesn't add up... if they are sure it's safe then why would they keep finding problems with it and are still investigating where it came from? They didn't even put it into pet food, even our cats and dogs shouldn't eat it (or have they? )

Can they test for these chemicals and medicines once it's been processed into food products i wonder?


----------



## 8115 (Feb 13, 2013)

I think so.  I'm pretty sure they haven't found any dangerous chemicals so far and I would imagine they are testing all horsemeat products they've found.

This article says the risks are very low.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/09/horsemeat-in-ready-meals-health-risk


----------



## brogdale (Feb 13, 2013)

One positive outcome from the government's 'horse-mare' with the food industry is that they appear, inadvertently, to have appreciated the true nature of globalised capital in the neo-liberal world of 'really existing capitalism'....



> *Organised criminal gangs operating internationally* are suspected of playing a major role in the horsemeat scandal that has seen supermarket shelves cleared of a series of products and *triggered* concerns about the contamination of the UK's food chain.


 
Source.

e2a : "_*triggered*_"


----------



## Firky (Feb 13, 2013)

One mans criminal gang is another mans food producer.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 13, 2013)

1927 said:


> Even the german dicsount supermarlets are implicated now, you've all heard of my Lidl pony right!



Actually they have. 

Cottage pie is 30% discounted as as a result of the bad press. I got one. It was neighmazing. 

See what I did there. It did buy one though. Cheap pie is cheap pie. Horse or no horse.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 13, 2013)

agricola said:


> Indeed. I do fondly recall the old No Frills brand at Kwik Save, which used to include a beef and onion pie that had a warning on the side of the packet advising the purchaser that the product didnt contain any meat (it basically consisted of a very cheap pie top and bottom with a thin layer of gravy in the middle).


 
Wow.  Did it say anything about the origins of the gravy?


----------



## coley (Feb 13, 2013)

Just waiting for "police probe national funeral provider"


----------



## weltweit (Feb 13, 2013)

From the radio I understand this issue is not just a UK one, the EU is asking for random dna checks across the continent.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 13, 2013)

Like this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/13/horsemeat-scandal-dutch-connection-romania



> Sorin Minea, head of Romalimenta, the Romanian food industry federation ... said, "What was said, that Romania has been slaughtering millions of horses, is a complete aberration. Romania does not have millions of horses at its disposal to slaughter. If we had done that, perhaps we would be better off financially now."


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 13, 2013)

coley said:


> Just waiting for "police probe national funeral provider"


 
Missing workfare workers found in burger.


----------



## 8115 (Feb 13, 2013)

It said on C4 news (was half watching it) that meat goes through 11 (I think) companies from Romania to here.


----------



## 8115 (Feb 13, 2013)

I canter believe it.

Yay!  Finally I think of a horse related pun.  Go me.


----------



## agricola (Feb 13, 2013)

coley said:


> Just waiting for "police probe national funeral provider"


 
"Findus Crispy Pancakes is people"


----------



## agricola (Feb 13, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Missing workfare workers found in burger.


 
ATOS would still find them fit for work.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 13, 2013)

agricola said:


> ATOS would still find them fit for work.


they'd find the fucking horses fit for work.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 13, 2013)

agricola said:


> "Findus Crispy Pancakes is people"



Is moderator.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 14, 2013)

Has this been going on furlong? You bet!


----------



## existentialist (Feb 14, 2013)

Drei said:


> You've hit the nail on the head there... they say it's safe but disposed of it all, it doesn't add up... if they are sure it's safe then why would they keep finding problems with it and are still investigating where it came from?


I think this is because it's a government minister saying it's safe, himself nicely safe from the consequences of his being wrong. Meanwhile, the people at the sharp end, whose dicks really are on the chopping block, rightly aren't taking any chances.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 14, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I think this is because it's a government minister saying it's safe, himself nicely safe from the consequences of his being wrong. Meanwhile, the people at the sharp end, _*whose dicks really are on the chopping block*_, rightly aren't taking any chances.


 

Metaphorically, like?

You never know with this story.....


----------



## PursuedByBears (Feb 14, 2013)

FSA have said that the Bute drug may have entered the food chain in France, according to the Guardian live blog.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 14, 2013)

PursuedByBears said:


> FSA have said that the Bute drug may have entered the food chain in France, according to the Guardian live blog.


 
"_*...may..."*_


----------



## Libertad (Feb 14, 2013)

> Eight horses, killed in the UK, tested positive for the painkiller bute and six *may* have entered the food chain in France, the Food Standards Agency said.


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21455419


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## hipipol (Feb 14, 2013)

Favelado said:


> This is a load of pony.


Seems Tesco are about to sponsor QPR
They been pony for yonks


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## Tankus (Feb 14, 2013)

So ...BSE is no longer being tracked ? ...its no longer a problem  ?


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## moochedit (Feb 15, 2013)

Ponyutd said:


> ...and it's not the first time either.
> 
> http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-horsemeat-scandal


 
this bit is interesting  ....



> Note found in paperwork - The horsemeat scandal - not to be used under any circumstances.


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## Jackobi (Feb 15, 2013)

CyberRose said:


> And if they tell me this 80p lasagna might contain anything, but hey, you've been eating them for years and never complained, do you still want it at a knocked down price, why can't I get stocked up on them?


 
Perhaps a Gallop poll should be conducted on whether the public want to eat discounted horse products.


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## brogdale (Feb 15, 2013)

> Tesco says tests on 149 of its products are clear, and Sainsbury's say *their* tests show no horse adulteration.


 
Hmmm...how convenient for them.


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## weltweit (Feb 15, 2013)

Tesco says 149 products are clear - BUT WHICH ONES FFS? ENQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!

Especially I want to know if my Aberdeen angus burgers wot I intend to buy tonight are clip clop free!


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## DexterTCN (Feb 15, 2013)

So if all the horses are in the burgers...what the hell is the glue made of now?


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## dylans (Feb 15, 2013)

Horse found in school meals cottage pies


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## DotCommunist (Feb 15, 2013)

I've got a tikka lasagne for later. It may sound a bit outre but I'm going to try it so you don't have to.

Its a pound from iceland so I fully expect it to be 90% equine offal


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## brogdale (Feb 15, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got a tikka lasagne for later. It may sound a bit outre but I'm going to try it so you don't have to.
> 
> Its a pound from iceland so I fully expect it to be 90% equine offal


 
Icelandic tikka lasagne (via Romania?). You little internationalist, you!


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## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2013)

Incidentally, given that Tesco knows what every Clubcard member has bought, shouldn't they write to everyone who has bought food they know was contaminated?


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## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2013)

The other thing to remember about these other meats - chicken and pork - now found in products labelled beef is that those require more thorough cooking than is customary with beef.


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## Geri (Feb 15, 2013)

I feel confident enough to eat my remaining Birds Eye burgers now.


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## Gingerman (Feb 16, 2013)

A horse walks into a bar, the barman says, 'sorry, we don't serve food ".....boom tish


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## DotCommunist (Feb 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got a tikka lasagne for later. It may sound a bit outre but I'm going to try it so you don't have to.
> 
> Its a pound from iceland so I fully expect it to be 90% equine offal


 

Update: it was actually a bit rank, way spicier than it had any right to be. Frog ate her half and enjoyed it whereas I poked angrily at mine with a fork for a bit then resentfully ate some of it.

The horse/lack of horse has not been confirmed but I think we can take it as given


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## 8ball (Feb 16, 2013)

I don't think it's fair to blame our equine cousins without firm DNA evidence.


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## 8115 (Feb 16, 2013)

Apparently middle men companies in the meat trade are also used by convicted arms dealers. The whole business looks seeeeeeeedy. I'm so glad I've never eaten a Rustler's burger.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/16/horsemeat-scandal-victor-bout-firms


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## weltweit (Feb 16, 2013)

I bought Aberdeen Angus burgers tonight and ate them. The staff in the local tesco did not seem too worried when I asked them how much clippity clop in the burgers then? One, said she did not know what all the fuss was about, she had eaten horse. Another thought it was all overblown, meat is meat or something. But I had an email from tesco's boss today saying that they are all taking it very seriously and are taking action to become the most tested supermarket so that we can all have trust in their food being as specified on the label!


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## Geri (Feb 17, 2013)

The managing director of Iceland was just interviewed on the Andrew Marr show and denied that any horse *flesh* was found in any supermarket products - he asserted it was just DNA due to cross contamination. The interviewer did not even challenge him on this point!


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## Voley (Feb 17, 2013)

Sounds like policy-making on the hoof to me.


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## brogdale (Feb 17, 2013)

NVP said:


> Sounds like policy-making on the hoof to me.


Yes, I think its worse that we first pferd.


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## Mrs Magpie (Feb 17, 2013)

Geri said:


> The managing director of Iceland was just interviewed on the Andrew Marr show and denied that any horse *flesh* was found in any supermarket products - he asserted it was just DNA due to cross contamination. The interviewer did not even challenge him on this point!


He also said it was the fault of Councils, Schools and Hospitals.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21490004


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## Geri (Feb 17, 2013)

Mrs Magpie said:


> He also said it was the fault of Councils, Schools and Hospitals.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21490004


 
Yes, I forgot to mention that bit! He came across as a complete tit. Glad I don't shop at Iceland.


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## sunny jim (Feb 17, 2013)

Dodgy arms dealers involved in the horse meat scandal. Its getting murkier and murkier.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/16/horsemeat-scandal-victor-bout-firms


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## brogdale (Feb 17, 2013)

Geri said:


> Yes, I forgot to mention that bit! He came across as a complete tit. Glad I don't shop at Iceland.


 
The geyser from Iceland is a 3.30.
What an anus.
http://bcove.me/5a65vqz3


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## sunny jim (Feb 17, 2013)

dylans said:


> Horse found in school meals cottage pies


 
When I was a kid they used to make cottage pies in the school kitchen. Fuck knows why they've lost the ability to do that - they're not exactly hard to make.


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## binka (Feb 17, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> When I was a kid they used to make cottage pies in the school kitchen. Fuck knows why they've lost the ability to do that - they're not exactly hard to make.


how are companies expected to make a profit on feeding children shit dinners if the schools are making it themselves?


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## sunny jim (Feb 17, 2013)

binka said:


> how are companies expected to make a profit on feeding children shit dinners if the schools are making it themselves?


 
Just throwing it out there but isnt it cheaper to make it themselves?
Disclaimer: I have no kids and its years since I was at school.


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## binka (Feb 17, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> Just throwing it out there but isnt it cheaper to make it themselves?


i don't really know but i bet there aren't many examples of privatisation/outsourcing leading to better value for money but then i don't think value for money has ever been the main consideration


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## sunny jim (Feb 17, 2013)

Dont they have kitchens in schools any more? Or are there just a bank of microwave ovens? Serious question.


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## DexterTCN (Feb 18, 2013)

Tesco have apologised...so...that's the first hurdle.


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## weltweit (Feb 18, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> Tesco have apologised...so...that's the first hurdle.


As a clubcard member, the boss of Tesco already emailed me to apologise and outline their plan to be the cleanest and most tested supermarket in the UK business.


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## DexterTCN (Feb 18, 2013)

weltweit said:


> As a clubcard member, the boss of Tesco already emailed me to apologise and outline their plan to be the cleanest and most tested supermarket in the UK business.


Do club card members have to do that?


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## weltweit (Feb 18, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> Do club card members have to do that?


No, no they don't !!!


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## weltweit (Feb 18, 2013)

Given the apathy many in Britain have shown towards the idea that they may have been eating Trigger, I fully expect a supermarket to start selling clip clop sometime soon labelled as clip clop I mean. The only questions are: 1) which supermarket will it be? and 2) will it contain any beef?


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## sunny jim (Feb 18, 2013)

Dont know about apathy, loads of people are shunning supermarket ready meals in favour of local butchers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21449140



> Consultancy firm Kantar polled 6,221 people on 11 February - the day Tesco confirmed some of its spaghetti bolognaise products contained horsemeat.
> Their results suggested one third of consumers were less likely to buy processed meat because of the horsemeat scandal, with 13% saying they intended to buy more locally sourced meat, and 5% intending to buy less meat altogether.


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## DexterTCN (Feb 18, 2013)

Most people are probably just changing brands.


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## sunny jim (Feb 18, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> Morons are probably just changing brands.


 
Fixed for you.


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## toggle (Feb 18, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Given the apathy many in Britain have shown towards the idea that they may have been eating Trigger, I fully expect a supermarket to start selling clip clop sometime soon labelled as clip clop I mean. The only questions are: 1) which supermarket will it be? and 2) will it contain any beef?


 
freind of mine has horse on order. will be selling horse jerky in a few weeks


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## mrs quoad (Feb 20, 2013)

In today's private eye:

'Findus ready meals for one: Lasagne' is an anagram of 'feed your diners lame nags an' foals.'


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## teqniq (Feb 22, 2013)




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## Gingerman (Feb 23, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> Tesco have apologised...so...that's the first hurdle.


 Tesco are offering double points with petrol, diesel and burgers. It's the 'only fuels and horses' deal.....


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## DexterTCN (Feb 25, 2013)

IKEA meatballs...from ikealand.

http://news.sky.com/story/1056625/ikea-meatballs-withdrawn-over-horsemeat-fears


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 25, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> Just throwing it out there but isnt it cheaper to make it themselves?
> Disclaimer: I have no kids and its years since I was at school.


 
Not really, by the time you factor in the wages of the people making them. Plus it takes more skill to cook food from scratch, rather then just throw it in the ovens.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 25, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Not really, by the time you factor in the wages of the people making them. Plus it takes more skill to cook food from scratch, rather then just throw it in the ovens.


 
Schools also don't have the buying power (or the will probably) to force down material costs in the way the supermarkets and large manufacturers do.


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## ExtraRefined (Feb 25, 2013)

Lord Nelson pub found to be serving 100% horse burgers


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## toggle (Feb 25, 2013)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/n...affected-by-horsemeat-scandal-91466-32861143/


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## gentlegreen (Feb 26, 2013)

> *South African Meat Products Found to Contain Donkey, Goat*
> By Janice Kew & Jaco Visser - Feb 26, 2013 6:12 PM GMT
> More than two-thirds of meat samples from South African supermarkets contained unlabeled traces of donkey, goat or water buffalo, a study by university academics found.
> Of 139 samples of meat, 68 percent tested positive for ingredients other than those declared on the packaging, according to an article made public yesterday by the University of Stellenbosch. The study follows the recall of several meat products across Europe, including by British retailer Tesco Plc (TSCO), after it was discovered they contained horse DNA.


 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...n-south-african-meat-products-study-says.html


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## Dr Jon (Feb 27, 2013)

Not just meat products that are being counterfeited:
More than Half of Our ‘Tuna’ Isn’t Really Tuna


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## Orang Utan (Feb 27, 2013)

Dr Jon said:


> Not just meat products that are being counterfeited:
> More than Half of Our ‘Tuna’ Isn’t Really Tuna


  


> in 84 percent of samples, “white tuna” turned out to be escolar, a fish that can cause prolonged, uncontrollable oily anal leakage.


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## Geri (Feb 27, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> IKEA meatballs...from ikealand.
> 
> http://news.sky.com/story/1056625/ikea-meatballs-withdrawn-over-horsemeat-fears


 
I have half a pack in the freezer


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## DexterTCN (Feb 27, 2013)

Geri said:


> I have half a pack in the freezer


I'd still eat them, tbh.  I like them.

Maybe that's why.


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## Geri (Feb 27, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> I'd still eat them, tbh. I like them.
> 
> Maybe that's why.


 
I do too, butchers won't eat them however.


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## DexterTCN (Feb 27, 2013)

Geri said:


> I do too, butchers won't eat them however.


This is a problem why?   If I buy a pack...I'm eating 50% even if it's for four.   Just have to eat them during the 'cooking process'...natural wastage, it's called.

Health and safety.   Putting yourself in the line of fire for others.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 23, 2013)

Horsemeat found in chicken nuggets in Greece

http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/topics/f...t-positive-for-horse-in-greece/237827.article


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## ymu (Apr 10, 2013)

Bute found in Asda corned beef.

Not good.


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## joustmaster (Apr 10, 2013)

I've never understood why people buy cheap corned beef. 
Beef, even in its cheapest mashed up state, is very expensive compared to other meats. And for the price, you could buy a lot nicer, less mashed up, other animal.


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## ymu (Apr 10, 2013)

Because corned beef hash is the food of the gods and feeds 4 for a couple of quid.

It's no more expensive than tinned tuna and it tastes nice. What more reason would you need?


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## joustmaster (Apr 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> Because corned beef hash is the food of the gods and feeds 4 for a couple of quid.
> 
> It's no more expensive than tinned tuna and it tastes nice. What more reason would you need?


You're right. It is more expensive as tuna. Am surprised. I stopped buying beef and tuna as part of my regular shop, ages a go.

There are cheaper options that are nicer in food. 80p for half a KG of cooking bacon. Or half a KG of chicken wings for a quid.

I want corned beef hash now.


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## ymu (Apr 10, 2013)

It's just nice to be able to come home and throw some stuff in a saucepan and forget about it until it is time to eat, that's all. Food fetishism is all very well, but time is precious too.

Boiling bacon in place of the beef in a corned beef hash is good too.


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## Drei (Apr 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> Bute found in Asda corned beef.
> 
> Not good.


i wonder if they tested other brands just to be on safe side?



ymu said:


> Boiling bacon in place of the beef in a corned beef hash is good too.


 
Huh... how do you do this?


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## ymu (Apr 10, 2013)

Corned beef hash is just potatoes and whatever veg you have that needs using up (carrots and cabbage are the best, leftovers fine), in boiling water with the corned beef until the potatoes are soft and the water disappeared, and mashed up a bit. Can be made more delicious by tipping into hot oil in a frying pan for a bit, or into a hot roasting tin and the oven.

Cheap bacon (better boiled than fried sort of bacon) does the same job: adding cheap deliciousness to crappy veg. Needs less salt adding.


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## 8ball (Apr 10, 2013)

It sounds horrible to me, kind of like a mutant bubble'n'squeak.

Then again, _foie gras _also sounds horrible when viewed purely in concept...


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## joustmaster (Apr 10, 2013)

Foie gras hash


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## Frances Lengel (Apr 10, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> IKEA meatballs...from ikealand.
> 
> http://news.sky.com/story/1056625/ikea-meatballs-withdrawn-over-horsemeat-fears


 
That's mint  Ikea's for wankers anyway.


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## Frances Lengel (Apr 10, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> I've never understood why people buy cheap corned beef.
> Beef, even in its cheapest mashed up state, is very expensive compared to other meats. And for the price, you could buy a lot nicer, less mashed up, other animal.


 
No such thing as cheap corn beef anymore.


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## 8ball (Apr 10, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> Foie gras hash


 
Don't even say it - Heston Blumenthal could be listening...


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## ymu (Apr 10, 2013)

8ball said:


> It sounds horrible to me, kind of like a mutant bubble'n'squeak.
> 
> Then again, _foie gras _also sounds horrible when viewed purely in concept...


It is mutant bubble and squeak. It's for when bubble is all you have to base a meal on, to make it into a main.

Strictly speaking, it is boiled rather than fried though. I just have a bit of a thing about caramelising stuff and it's a useful way to stop it being too soggy without burning the bottom of the saucepan.


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## The Boy (Apr 10, 2013)

8ball said:


> Then again, _foie gras _also sounds horrible when viewed purely in concept...


 
What the _foie_?


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## 8ball (Apr 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> It is mutant bubble and squeak. It's for when bubble is all you have to base a meal on, to make it into a main.
> 
> Strictly speaking, it is boiled rather than fried though. I just have a bit of a thing about caramelising stuff and it's a useful way to stop it being too soggy without burning the bottom of the saucepan.


 
I'm not much of a cook but I think I understood 70% of that. 

I like fried things.


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## Drei (Apr 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> Corned beef hash is just potatoes and whatever veg you have that needs using up (carrots and cabbage are the best, leftovers fine), in boiling water with the corned beef until the potatoes are soft and the water disappeared, and mashed up a bit. Can be made more delicious by tipping into hot oil in a frying pan for a bit, or into a hot roasting tin and the oven.
> 
> Cheap bacon (better boiled than fried sort of bacon) does the same job: adding cheap deliciousness to crappy veg. Needs less salt adding.


I know what it is now... we call it croquettes here  
The cheapest i've made so far was with canned tuna, parsley & chopped onion... actually no, i've made plain ones with just potatoes!!! I like the idea of adding cabbage or bacon, i hadn't tried it like that yet 

Yeah 8ball i also like fried things


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## ymu (Apr 10, 2013)

8ball said:


> I'm not much of a cook but I think I understood 70% of that.
> 
> I like fried things.


 
If you boil the hash pan dry, you can get a nasty sort of bitter burninating which ruins the pan as well as some of the food, if you're not careful. Needs a lot of stirring at the end, which is how you get it mashed up a bit. You don't have to be as careful if you just tip it into a hot frying pan with some oil when it's done but not quite dry enough. And if you want to bake it to golden brown, that works too. 

And you get the benefit of the Maillard reaction. (Brown bits.)

/heston


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## Drei (Apr 10, 2013)

not quite croquettes then, but same sort of idea!!! posh people breadcrumb it and deep fry it... whereas people at home mostly do it like the hash description you've given.


EDIT:  it is called hash browns here too  duhh, it slipped my mind!!! Guerns like it with their english breakfast rather than with a meal...


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## ymu (Apr 10, 2013)

To me, croquettes are just fancy fried mash-sticks that turned up in the 1980s.


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## 8ball (Apr 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> And you get the benefit of the Maillard reaction. (Brown bits.)


 
Ah right - the Maillard reaction - that's the thing where you use a really hot pan to seal the flavoursome juices into the meat isn't it?

<runs away laughing maniacally>


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## Drei (Apr 10, 2013)

8ball said:


> <runs away laughing maniacally>


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## ymu (Apr 10, 2013)

8ball said:


> Ah right - the Maillard reaction - that's the thing where you use a really hot pan to seal the flavoursome juices into the meat isn't it?
> 
> <runs away laughing maniacally>


It's the extra tasty bits where the food browns but doesn't burn. The Maillard reaction is just a poncy way to say caramelised, I think, although one may be a technical subset of the other. 



Drei said:


> EDIT:  it is called hash browns here too  duhh, it slipped my mind!!! Guerns like it with their english breakfast rather than with a meal...


Ah, OK. Nothing like hash browns.

This is a proper corned beef hash:


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## Frances Lengel (Apr 10, 2013)

ymu said:


> It's the extra tasty bits where the food browns but doesn't burn. The Maillard reaction is just a poncy way to say caramelised, I think, although one may be a technical subset of the other.
> 
> Ah, OK. Nothing like hash browns.
> 
> This is a proper corned beef hash:


 
That looks nice, but to me it looks nothing like proper corn beef hash - To me proper CBH is a pan of semi-liquid slop - Thick enough to eat off a plate rather than out of a bowl but still, at heart, a liquid.




I know it's corned beef rather than corn beef, but purposefully making myself look ignorant is a thing I take no small amount of pleasure in.


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## King Biscuit Time (Apr 10, 2013)

Fried onions, mashed potato, tin o' beans, tin o' corned beef, cheese on top, half hour in the oven, 4 full up students.

I had some lush corned beed in Mr Thomas's Chop House in Manchester once.


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## ymu (Apr 10, 2013)

I've liked that despite the bean contamination.

They're supposed to go on the side.


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## Geri (Apr 10, 2013)

I used to love corned beef when I was a kid - and spam. I used to go to Spar at dinnertime and just get a 1/4 of it, instead of having a school meal. Then I would save the rest of my money to spend on records.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 14, 2013)

I suspect there are so many ways of making corn beef hash it could do it's own thread.

Mine is proper unhealthy, so not made it for ages. I shallow fry the the spuds, pour of as much oil as I can and throw in the rest of the ingredients. Add lots of tabasco or hotter sauce.


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## bi0boy (Apr 14, 2013)

We had battered and deep fried spam fritters at school, and corned beef at home.

The only reason we didn't also have spam at home is because my dad "couldn't be bothered to fiddle about opening the wretched tins".


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 14, 2013)

I don't think I've ever had a spam fritter...I'm guessing it could fall into the wrong but right catergery.


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## gentlegreen (Dec 16, 2013)

> 20 arrested in horsemeat scandal
> December 16, 2013
> GENDARMES arrested more than 20 people early this morning in a massive swoop targeting a giant horsemeat-trafficking network across 11 departments.
> 
> ...



Apparently the horses were used not for tests, but for the actual *production of vaccines for rabies, tetanus and of antivenum.  *



> Ces chevaux n’étaient pas utilisés pour des tests de laboratoire mais pour fabriquer des médicaments, des _«sérums équins purifiés»_ servant ensuite d’anticorps antirabiques (rage), antitétaniques (tétanos) et antivenimeux, souligne Sanofi Pasteur.
> 
> http://www.liberation.fr/economie/2...l-coup-de-filet-dans-onze-departements_966826


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## Gromit (Dec 16, 2013)

So





gentlegreen said:


> Apparently the horses were used not for tests, but for the actual *production of vaccines for rabies, tetanus and of antivenum.  *


So eat more horse meat if you want free vaccination against them horrid diseases. Is that your point?


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## gentlegreen (Dec 16, 2013)

I think the technical term is "functional food" !


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## gentlegreen (Dec 16, 2013)

Apparently they were particularly healthy horses, they'd finished producing the special immunoglobulin and it isn't the blood that's eaten ...

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/viande-de-cheval-et-medicaments-quels-dangers-pour-la-sante_484054.html


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