# Couple 'exposed to unknown substance' in Wiltshire town of Amesbury...



## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

...'Major incident' declared, various sites in Amesbury and Salisbury have been cordoned off.



> A major incident has been declared in Wiltshire after it was suspected two people might have been exposed to an unknown substance in Amesbury.
> 
> The man and woman, both in their 40s, are in a critical condition at Salisbury District Hospital, Wiltshire Police said.
> 
> A number of scenes in the Amesbury and Salisbury area have been cordoned off as a precaution, although the force said it was not yet clear if they were the victims of a crime.



Two people in critical condition after being 'exposed to unknown substance' in Wiltshire town

Here we go again.


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## Badgers (Jul 4, 2018)

Not great  
Also more brexshit fraud 

Still...

England won


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## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Not great
> Also more brexshit fraud
> 
> Still...
> ...


but does it matter how the football team do if corners of this green and pleasant land are riddled with novichok?


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## felixthecat (Jul 4, 2018)

Oh thats it- I'm moving. Salisbury was close enough, Amesbury closer still.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)




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## StoneRoad (Jul 4, 2018)

Two collapse near nerve agent attack site

Reading the BeeB report - apart from the not very close locations, I can't see an immediate connection between the Salisbury Incident and this one !


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

StoneRoad said:


> Two collapse near nerve agent attack site
> 
> Reading the BeeB report - apart from the not very close locations, I can't see an immediate connection between the Salisbury Incident and this one !



That's what the Russians want you to believe.


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## felixthecat (Jul 4, 2018)

Boots in Amesbury has also been cordoned off. I reckon this was Bill and Doris who got a contaminated batch of methadone or summat similar from there.  Still a significant concern but not a nerve agent concern.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

Being serious, let's hope it's a cautious over reaction by the police.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

felixthecat said:


> Boots in Amesbury has also been cordoned off. I reckon this was Bill and Doris who got a contaminated batch of methadone or summat similar from there.  Still a significant concern but not a nerve agent concern.



So, your move it off?


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## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2018)

felixthecat said:


> Oh thats it- I'm moving. Salisbury was close enough, Amesbury closer still.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2018)

it all sounds akin to


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## andysays (Jul 4, 2018)

According to BBC website,  counter-terrorism police now involved in investigation


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## Saul Goodman (Jul 4, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> ...
> it was suspected two people might have been exposed to an unknown substance


At least that's completely unambiguous.


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## 2hats (Jul 4, 2018)

Sample sent to Porton Down and Cobra meeting convened.


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## Badgers (Jul 4, 2018)

2hats said:


> Sample sent to Porton Down and Cobra meeting convened.


Oh good. We can totally take Russia in a fight  

Has someone gagged Boris Johnson yet?


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## girasol (Jul 4, 2018)

Maybe they are the people who poisoned Sergei and Yulia Skripal


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## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Oh good. We can totally take Russia in a fight
> 
> Has someone gagged Boris Johnson yet?


bring out the gimp


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## pesh (Jul 4, 2018)

maybe its Boris thats been contaminated


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## Wilf (Jul 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> but does it matter how the football team do if corners of this green and pleasant land are riddled with novichok?


To be fair, I think Jamie Vardy just had an off game.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

Reports seem to be all over the place, what joy.

Just published...



> Counter-terrorism police have joined the investigation into two people in a critical condition in Wiltshire, amid fears that they may have been exposed to a nerve agent.
> 
> The pair were initially believed to have overdosed, *but their symptoms raised alarm among medics and Wiltshire police, which led them to suspect a possible nerve agent.*
> 
> The man and woman, both in their 40s, were in a critical condition at Salisbury district hospital, Wiltshire police said on Wednesday.


Police fear Wiltshire pair have been exposed to nerve agent


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 4, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Has someone gagged Boris Johnson yet?



Yes but then he was abruptly called in to work and had to cancel his private plans.


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## jusali (Jul 4, 2018)

Imagine if it is the start of some global virus epidemic........aren't we all due for a cull anyway?


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## andysays (Jul 4, 2018)

2hats said:


> Sample sent to Porton Down and Cobra meeting convened.


Does the fact that they've got a sample to analyse so quickly suggest that they found a quantity of the substance with to two victims in their house?

I don't remember there being a sample to be analysed this quickly in the Skripal case...


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

jusali said:


> Imagine if it is the start of some global virus epidemic........aren't we all due for a cull anyway?



Hello Jazzz.


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## jusali (Jul 4, 2018)




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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

jusali said:


>



Jazzz was a conspiracy loon poster, who thought 'they' were out to cull us, hence my joke.


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## LDC (Jul 4, 2018)

This is quite bonkers. That is all I can say really.


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## 2hats (Jul 4, 2018)

andysays said:


> Does the fact that they've got a sample to analyse so quickly suggest that they found a quantity of the substance with to two victims in their house?
> 
> I don't remember there being a sample to be analysed this quickly in the Skripal case...


Could just be sloppy journalism and the sample is a swab taken from surfaces/clothes/skin and/or saliva/blood.


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## andysays (Jul 4, 2018)

2hats said:


> Could just be sloppy journalism and the sample is a swab taken from surfaces/clothes/skin and/or saliva/blood.


Could be...


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## 2hats (Jul 4, 2018)

andysays said:


> Could be...


The Times’ defence correspondent describes them as "samples from the couple".


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## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Hello Jazzz.


jusali's original name was jazz alley, so you're not far off.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> jusali's original name was jazz alley, so you're not far off.



Seriously?


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## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Seriously?


would i joke about something like that?


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> would i joke about something like that?



Yes.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yes.


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## andysays (Jul 4, 2018)

2hats said:


> The Times’ defence correspondent describes them as "samples from the couple".



The fact that the Times has got their defence correspondent on the story already seems intriguing in itself


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## 2hats (Jul 4, 2018)

andysays said:


> The fact that the Times has got their defence correspondent on the story already seems intriguing in itself


The defence correspondent would be the natural channel for information passed on by sources in/connected with DSTL. 

ITV appear to have interviewed a friend who was with them over the weekend who (a) describes symptoms consistent with a nerve agent and (b) seems to think they came into contact with something in a park in Salisbury (perhaps that is the source of [some of] the samples, if he were able to subsequently help identify it?).


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## andysays (Jul 4, 2018)

2hats said:


> The defence correspondent would be the natural channel for information passed on by sources in/connected with DSTL.
> 
> ITV appear to have interviewed a friend who was with them over the weekend who (a) describes symptoms consistent with a nerve agent and (b) seems to think they came into contact with something in a park in Salisbury (perhaps that is the source of [some of] the samples, if he were able to subsequently help identify it?).


What's DSTL?


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## kebabking (Jul 4, 2018)

andysays said:


> The fact that the Times has got their defence correspondent on the story already seems intriguing in itself



Not really, Army HQ is down the road, it leaks like a sieve to, amongst others, the Times Defence Correspondent - Army HQ will be somewhat alive to this because it might well be a target, so when the old bill and PD talk to Army HQ, they are also talking to the Times, Torygraph, Guardian, BBC etc..


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## kebabking (Jul 4, 2018)

andysays said:


> What's DSTL?



Defence Science and Technology Laboratory.


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## girasol (Jul 4, 2018)

DM seems to know an awful lot about it... 

Amesbury couple exposed to unknown substance fight for their lives | Daily Mail Online


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## not-bono-ever (Jul 4, 2018)

could be dumped shit from the original incident that was ingested...


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## andysays (Jul 4, 2018)

Couple just named (on phone so no link but it's on the BBC website


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## kenny g (Jul 4, 2018)

Will be staying well clear of the area. Not worth the risk.


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## kebabking (Jul 4, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> could be dumped shit from the original incident that was ingested...



Unless it turns out to be rat poison or something, this is probably it - the bloke on the radio who says he's their friend says that one of the places they frequent is the Queen Elizabeth park in Salisbury, which is where the last one ended up.


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## nuffsaid (Jul 4, 2018)

Definitely Putin's fault, more reason to bring that little gold trophy home and piss him right off.


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## Grump (Jul 4, 2018)

On the basis that this might be the start of a global pandemic I am off to Aldi in the morning to buy tinned food and am going to watch some old episodes of The Survivors on Youtube to get some tips on surviving in a post apocalyptic world.


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## not-bono-ever (Jul 4, 2018)

fucking hell, it is


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## LDC (Jul 4, 2018)

Wild speculation time then... They somehow inadvertently came into contact with the dumped stuff used in the previous attack? They're Russian targets as well? Russian illegals that mistakenly fucked up the storage of the nerve agent?


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 4, 2018)

Yep, confirmed as being Novichok.

Poisoned Amesbury couple exposed to Novichok - the same substance as Russian spy

felixthecat - move back on?


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## nuffsaid (Jul 4, 2018)

Russian agents that did this ballsed up the procedure, didn't do enough to kill the Skripals and sloppy in the clear up, probably lying in a ditch in the woods outside Moscow with a bullet in their heads.


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## LDC (Jul 4, 2018)

Grim incompetence as the original targets didn't die and if then these poor fuckers do.


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## 2hats (Jul 4, 2018)

Grump said:


> I am off to Aldi in the morning to buy tinned food


I’d add Tena Pants Plus extra large to that shopping list, if I were you.


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## Geri (Jul 4, 2018)

I am staying out of Wiltshire for at least 6 months. 

Poor Salisbury.


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## Grump (Jul 4, 2018)

2hats said:


> I’d add Tena Pants Plus extra large to that shopping list, if I were you.


I get those every month from the district nurse anyway, but thank you for thinking of me.


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## RD2003 (Jul 4, 2018)

Geri said:


> I am staying out of Wiltshire for at least 6 months.
> 
> Poor Salisbury.


I regularly have to go to Wiltshire. My wife is from there originally, and both her parents, 84 and 88, have Alzheimers. Been at least four times since the Skripal incident. So far no ill effects, but am expecting to start spinning on my back like a bluebottle sprayed with Raid at any moment.


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## agricola (Jul 4, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Wild speculation time then... They somehow inadvertently came into contact with the dumped stuff used in the previous attack? They're Russian targets as well? Russian illegals that mistakenly fucked up the storage of the nerve agent?



Can't see the second or third options being true, and though the first one is more plausible based on what we have been told it would be almost unbelievable that the evidence would be left lying around like that - given the consequences if it was ever found (not so much the fear that it would poison someone, but that it and the circumstances it was found in would be a considerable assistance in proving what had happened to the Skirpals).   

However I suppose the usual people on t'interwebs will start raising an alternate theory of some rogue bot at Porton Down with a grudge against balding white men.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 4, 2018)

agricola said:


> Can't see the second or third options being true, and though the first one is more plausible based on what we have been told it would be almost unbelievable that the evidence would be left lying around like that - given the consequences if it was ever found (not so much the fear that it would poison someone, but that it and the circumstances it was found in would be a considerable assistance in proving what had happened to the Skirpals).



Hopefully these two folks make it OK and are able to shed some further light on the whole ghastly shitshow.


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## 2hats (Jul 4, 2018)

agricola said:


> it would be almost unbelievable that the evidence would be left lying around like that - given the consequences if it was ever found (not so much the fear that it would poison someone, but that it and the circumstances it was found in would be a considerable assistance in proving what had happened to the Skirpals).


The first option. _*Perhaps*_ the original (Skripal) operation was compromised, or believed to be on the verge of being so, and they made a mess of the clean up, ditching material somewhere.

With this couple, the female is reported to have exhibited symptoms some hours before the male. Perhaps she came into contact with the ditched material and then he contaminated himself later when attempting to help her. Or she unwittingly recovered (some of) the material to his house and he came into contact with it later.

Latest developments will of course be useful for the Skripal investigation in constraining the movements of the assassin(s) and their methodology (little, if any of which has been discussed in the public domain).


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## twentythreedom (Jul 4, 2018)

The whole thing is fucking nuts


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## Grump (Jul 4, 2018)

I suppose the key issue is whether these people are the type who might be targeted by Putin. If not the odds are that they stumbled across left over novichok abandoned by whoever poisened the Skripals.


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## pesh (Jul 4, 2018)

my theory, the latest female victim living in the hostel opposite the Zizzis found a purse or wallet or similar dumped the day of the original poisoning, thought thats nice, left it at home and forgot about it for weeks. Then on Saturday she found it again while getting ready to go and meet her boyfriend, opened it up, found a lip salve or breath spray inside, used it then went off out to meet up with him.

thats the only reason i can think of for it to turn up in exactly the same area weeks later and to take out a couple hours apart from each other.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 4, 2018)

Pretty sure they announced an all-clear and had a party there a little while ago.


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## toblerone3 (Jul 4, 2018)

This is one of the more convincing comments I have seen: 

"It is a fake story, but not to blame Russia. At the top of the pyramid of power, ALL nations are controlled by the same Globalist Elite who want World Government. And all politicians, including Putin & Kim, are their Freem.ason minions, otherwise they'd never get near power. Blaming Russia would be pointless. They could create fear among the sheep in the short term, by pretending to blame Russia for these staged dramas, and are doing so. But they couldn't progress that to a staged conflict with a super power unless they wanted to stage a choreographed global war, and that is MASSIVELY unlikely. Far far more likely is that they'll claim puppet freem ason Kim Jong Un is behind these attacks, as an attempt to trigger a N uclear war between the US & Russia. Like a bond villain. They created the staged drama of him supposedly killing his brother with Nerve Gas, so the sheeple would connect the dots. This is to portray independent nation states as being too dangerous in the nuclear age"


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## not-bono-ever (Jul 4, 2018)

its a devious plan these illuminati have. i am just going to check my #1 loons FB for their take on this. will revert


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## not-bono-ever (Jul 4, 2018)

she has been focusing on the Bilderbergs , so is currently formulating a stance on this incident

"The 66th meeting of the Bilderberg group on the 6th month of the year,G7, NATO and the Pope sending his Cardinal. These groups meeting in the space of a week, completely unprecedented!,Agenda Item 11 "Post-Truth World".The constant and incessant centralisation of power into fewer and fewer hands is only possible through the global digital totalitarian system hence AI and 5G.Something big is coming down the line."


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## toblerone3 (Jul 4, 2018)

feverish conspiracy theory peddling going on.


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## 2hats (Jul 5, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> its a devious plan these illuminati have. i am just going to check my #1 loons FB for their take on this. will revert


Anyone surveying social media might be tempted to conclude widespread novichok poisoning, such is the vivid display of dysfunctional cognitive overactivity.


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## Smoking kills (Jul 5, 2018)

Wild guess, it is the same batch.
The most recent victims crossed forensic paths with the first ones, or their would be killer(s).
Luckily for them the hospital is the world leader in novichok poisoning management.
Hopefully they'll recover, and England will beat Russia, 4.0.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 5, 2018)

Why is this all happening a stone's throw from Porton Down though?


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## 2hats (Jul 5, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Why is this all happening a stone's throw from Porton Down though?


You didn’t catch where S Skripal lived?

Seriously, this was all covered in the earlier thread.


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## The Fornicator (Jul 5, 2018)

Abramovich's best hang omto that Israeli passport. His visa application might take quite a while longer than he thought ...

Surely this is about disposal of the original delivery method. Whoever it was stupidly dumped the syringe/door knob squirty thing and these people came across it. Someone in Russia will be getting their knee caps rearranged as we speak. So amateurish.


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## petee (Jul 5, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> This is one of the more convincing comments I have seen:
> 
> "It is a fake story, but not to blame Russia. At the top of the pyramid of power, ALL nations are controlled by the same Globalist Elite who want World Government. And all politicians, including Putin & Kim, are their Freem.ason minions, otherwise they'd never get near power. Blaming Russia would be pointless. They could create fear among the sheep in the short term, by pretending to blame Russia for these staged dramas, and are doing so. But they couldn't progress that to a staged conflict with a super power unless they wanted to stage a choreographed global war, and that is MASSIVELY unlikely. Far far more likely is that they'll claim puppet freem ason Kim Jong Un is behind these attacks, as an attempt to trigger a N uclear war between the US & Russia. Like a bond villain. They created the staged drama of him supposedly killing his brother with Nerve Gas, so the sheeple would connect the dots. This is to portray independent nation states as being too dangerous in the nuclear age"



i notice the word "freemason" is used twice and broken each time, but differently. this means something.


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## toblerone3 (Jul 5, 2018)

I'm not sure that it does. Breaking words up by putting dots or spaces in them is an attempt, I believe, to avoid posts being flagged up by moderators and deleted or edited when certain words which are believed (by the writer of the post) to be banned/offensive/racist words are included. Not sure if its an effective technique but IMO its taboo signalling is one of the hallmarks of a conspiracy theory posting.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 5, 2018)

> a senior Government source said.
> 
> "Novichok doesn't evaporate. It exists forever," the source added.
> 
> ...



I am sure everyone living in Salisbury will be relieved to hear that.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 5, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> feverish conspiracy theory peddling going on.



Yup. I've seen someone linking it to Tommy bloody Robinson (in regards cover ups and silencing of press reporting)


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## phillm (Jul 5, 2018)

Has some echoes of the mysterious post 9/11 anthrax attacks. But that would fit uneasily with the current dominant narrative.

2001 anthrax attacks - Wikipedia

and topically  cc Murray,Pilger et al


Immediately after the anthrax attacks, White House officials repeatedly pressured FBI Director Robert Mueller to prove that they were a second-wave assault by al-Qaeda following the September 11 attacks. During the president's morning intelligence briefings, Mueller was "beaten up" for not producing proof that the killer spores were the handiwork of terrorist mastermind Osama Bin Laden, according to a former aide. "They really wanted to blame somebody in the Middle East," the retired senior FBI official stated. The FBI knew early on that the anthrax used was of a consistency requiring sophisticated equipment and was unlikely to have been produced in some "cave". At the same time, both President Bush and Vice President Cheney in public statements speculated about the possibility of a link between the anthrax attacks and Al Qaeda.[76]


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## felixthecat (Jul 5, 2018)

I hope the drive thru Costa in Amesbury hasn't be closed. I've got an early start day in Tidworth on Tuesday and I'll need coffee to get through it


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## Geri (Jul 5, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> I regularly have to go to Wiltshire. My wife is from there originally, and both her parents, 84 and 88, have Alzheimers. Been at least four times since the Skripal incident. So far no ill effects, but am expecting to start spinning on my back like a bluebottle sprayed with Raid at any moment.


 
We went to Salisbury for the weekend last September - we were in the pub the Skripals visited before they got ill! It was very sad to see it and all the other places closed for so long, and I hope it doesn't put people off from visiting, as it's a beautiful place.


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## maomao (Jul 5, 2018)

4 people are exposed to a rare and extremely deadly nerve gas and none of them are dead yet? If I was in the market for a nerve agent I'd be crossing Novichok off the list. That VX stuff they used on Kim Jong-nam was the nuts. If they'd used Novichok he'd still be alive.


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## LDC (Jul 5, 2018)

agricola said:


> Can't see the second or third options being true, and though the first one is more plausible based on what we have been told it would be almost unbelievable that the evidence would be left lying around like that - given the consequences if it was ever found (not so much the fear that it would poison someone, but that it and the circumstances it was found in would be a considerable assistance in proving what had happened to the Skirpals).
> 
> However I suppose the usual people on t'interwebs will start raising an alternate theory of some rogue bot at Porton Down with a grudge against balding white men.



Yeah, the first is the more likely _by far_. Was just dredging for other possibles, however bonkers unlikely.


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## MickiQ (Jul 5, 2018)

maomao said:


> 4 people are exposed to a rare and extremely deadly nerve gas and none of them are dead yet? If I was in the market for a nerve agent I'd be crossing Novichok off the list. That VX stuff they used on Kim Jong-nam was the nuts. If they'd used Novichok he'd still be alive.


Russian manufacturing does seem to have a serious QA problem


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## chainsawjob (Jul 5, 2018)

Geri said:


> We went to Salisbury for the weekend last September - we were in the pub the Skripals visited before they got ill! It was very sad to see it and all the other places closed for so long, and I hope it doesn't put people off from visiting, as it's a beautiful place.



I drank in that pub too, sometime last autumn  Been back recently, I'm quite familiar with that area where the Skripals were found, walk through it a lot, it's sad to see the pub and the river still boarded up. Lovely city, one of my favourite places.


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## 2hats (Jul 5, 2018)

maomao said:


> 4 people are exposed to a rare and extremely deadly nerve gas and none of them are dead yet? If I was in the market for a nerve agent I'd be crossing Novichok off the list. That VX stuff they used on Kim Jong-nam was the nuts. If they'd used Novichok he'd still be alive.


Almost an ideal weapon I would surmise. Guaranteed delayed incapacitant through contact (likely deadly inhaled via aerosol). Which makes it great for hampering opposing forces but more so as a tool of assassination: buying time for the assailant to leave the scene and to make it hard to pinpoint the time, thus place, of delivery and so in turn muddy the pool of potential suspect perpetrators - maximising plausible deniability.

The DPRK were more likely to use a V agent as, up until March this year anyway, practical experience with the A series agents was not widespread (close to zero) outside of Russia. Indeed, Russia certainly did have more experience in providing medical treatment for victims exposed to novichok (and could have offered this up).


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## 2hats (Jul 5, 2018)

Javid has stated to the house that this it has been determined that this is the same variant of Novichok that the Skripals were exposed to (note: does not equate to ‘same batch’).


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## justin credible (Jul 5, 2018)

I would have thought that a more mundane and plausible possibility is that this couple found a discarded glass ampule in a park somewhere and imagined that they had found something enjoyable.  Upon opening the ampule their hands became contaminated with the substance, which they then inhaled, and the rest is history.


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## andysays (Jul 5, 2018)

justin credible said:


> I would have thought that a more mundane and plausible possibility is that this couple found a discarded glass ampule in a park somewhere and imagined that they had found something enjoyable.  Upon opening the ampule their hands became contaminated with the substance, which they then inhaled, and the rest is history.


Given that they had reportedly only moved into their house recently, it seems just as likely that they discovered and were contaminated by something left behind by the previous occupants


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## 2hats (Jul 5, 2018)

Implication of Mirzayanov’s comments earlier today that Novichok would degrade in the open (within 4 months), particularly in damp conditions, is that the discarded suspect material was either in some form of container rather than a surface exposed to the outside ambient environment, or, otherwise on the surface of an object that has been kept inside/covered, out of the weather, for the bulk of the intervening period.


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## justin credible (Jul 5, 2018)

andysays said:


> Given that they had reportedly only moved into their house recently, it seems just as likely that they discovered and were contaminated by something left behind by the previous occupants



Both are possible.  We can only really speculate, but people who regularly take heroin and whose lifestyle includes taking risks are more likely to pick up some unknown ampule or baggy and handle it than someone whose lifestyle is different.  



2hats said:


> Implication of Mirzayanov’s comments earlier today that Novichok would degrade in the open (within 4 months), particularly in damp conditions, is that the discarded suspect material was either in some form of container rather than a surface exposed to the outside ambient environment, or, otherwise on the surface of an object that has been kept inside/covered, out of the weather, for the bulk of the intervening period.



That's why I was thinking glass ampule.  The substance would remain active and ampules are likely to attract the attention of class A users who might mistake it for an amp of morphine, diamorphine or some other similar interesting substance.  Poor sods, very unlucky.  I hope they recover.


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## andysays (Jul 5, 2018)

justin credible said:


> Both are possible.  We can only really speculate, but people who regularly take heroin and whose lifestyle includes taking risks are more likely to pick up some unknown ampule or baggy and handle it than someone whose lifestyle is different.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I was thinking glass ampule.  The substance would remain active and ampules are likely to attract the attention of class A users who might mistake it for an amp of morphine, diamorphine or some other similar interesting substance.  Poor sods, very unlucky.  I hope they recover.


I know that it was initially thought they might have been using contaminated drugs, but has it been confirmed somewhere that they are known drug users?


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## justin credible (Jul 5, 2018)

andysays said:


> I know that it was initially thought they might have been using contaminated drugs, but has it been confirmed somewhere that they are known drug users?



Yes it has been, in the Mail, so possibly not the most reliable source. 

Amesbury couple exposed to Novichok poison fight for their lives | Daily Mail Online

I have seen an interview with a friend of the male victim on several news channels who said that he had been to Boots with his friend to pick up his prescription, also he said something like "I've seen him in a bad way before but nothing like this", which in my mind gave credence to the reports of them both being drug users, one, the male, being a heroin user. 

The Boots chemist where they collected the prescriptions is now sealed off by cops.


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 5, 2018)

^^^ And, why the police first thought they had some bad crack or smack.


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## 2hats (Jul 5, 2018)

justin credible said:


> That's why I was thinking glass ampule.


This novichok variant thought to be of low volatility and delivered as a solid, possibly in a gel formulation.


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## Looby (Jul 5, 2018)

felixthecat said:


> I hope the drive thru Costa in Amesbury hasn't be closed. I've got an early start day in Tidworth on Tuesday and I'll need coffee to get through it


If you mean the one at solstice park, it’s closed for refurb or it was when I passed 2 days ago.


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## planetgeli (Jul 5, 2018)

andysays said:


> I know that it was initially thought they might have been using contaminated drugs, but has it been confirmed somewhere that they are known drug users?





> Wiltshire Police said it was initially thought the two patients had been using heroin or crack cocaine from a contaminated batch of drugs.
> 
> They explained that this assessment was based on items located at the address where the couple fell ill, information from a friend of the pair and the "initial medical diagnosis".



Like justin credible I think they found an ampoule, thought they'd hit bingo and got more than they bargained for.

If the era of shit RCs has taught us nothing, it should have taught us never, ever to pick up random white powders (or such like) and take them, or even sniff them, without testing.

Fuck me, imagine if they'd sent it to Wedinos. As they should have done.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 5, 2018)

Counter terrorist police statement: “Following further tests of samples from the patients, we now know that they were exposed to the nerve agent after handling a contaminated item.” According to BBC security correspondent, highest concentrations were on the victims’ hands, police suspect a discarded container of some description.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 5, 2018)

justin credible said:


> I would have thought that a more mundane and plausible possibility is that this couple found a discarded glass ampule in a park somewhere and imagined that they had found something enjoyable.  Upon opening the ampule their hands became contaminated with the substance, which they then inhaled, and the rest is history.


Don’t be ridiculous! Didn’t you know they were found only 10 miles from porton down? That’s where it came from. It’s a false flag! Because it’s impossible for novichok to be transported any further than 10 miles.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2018)

justin credible said:


> I would have thought that a more mundane and plausible possibility is that this couple found a discarded glass ampule in a park somewhere and imagined that they had found something enjoyable.  Upon opening the ampule their hands became contaminated with the substance, which they then inhaled, and the rest is history.



Yep, they were drug addicts and then chanced upon some crack pipe and then just couldn’t help themselves.
As oppposed to nerve agents being used on British soil and what the fuck is being done about it. 
You don’t half swallow some shit.


----------



## Combustible (Jul 6, 2018)

Given that the poison was likely delivered by Russian spooks, it seems just as possible that the container was disguised as something more innocuous looking.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 6, 2018)

I don't care if they had drug dependency issues, or they were religious, or whateve. I'm just wondering how this can happen to ordinary folk going about their business 

Some fuckers are playing for high stakes, whoever behind this.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 6, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> I don't care if they had drug dependency issues, or they were religious, or whateve. I'm just wondering how this can happen to ordinary folk going about their business
> 
> Some fuckers are playing for high stakes, whoever behind this.


Define 'ordinary'!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 6, 2018)

Combustible said:


> Given that the poison was likely delivered by Russian spooks, it seems just as possible that the container was disguised as something more innocuous looking.


I heard it was disguised as a big mac.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Define 'ordinary'!



Not ex-spies, oligarchs, that kind of thing


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 6, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Not ex-spies, oligarchs, that kind of thing


How do you know what they were or weren't? Are you Columbo?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 6, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> How do you know what they were or weren't? Are you Columbo?



You're right, they're probably Romanovs


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jul 6, 2018)

Some news reports suggesting contamination via a syringe.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 6, 2018)

Didn't they cordon off and scour the area after the first attack?
Did they forget to check bins or something? Were the investigators thinking...."oh the perpetrators would probably not have dumped stuff in a bin because it's too ordinary."

It's very odd that this pair got their hands on it. And if the area was "decontaminated" does this mean they picked it up shortly after the attack?. Were they completely unaware of what had gone on there?

It's all very strange.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2018)

Maybe there's more than one novichok fan out there


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 6, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> Didn't they cordon off and scour the area after the first attack?
> Did they forget to check bins or something? Were the investigators thinking...."oh the perpetrators would probably not have dumped stuff in a bin because it's too ordinary."
> 
> It's very odd that this pair got their hands on it. And if the area was "deconraminated" does this mean they picked it up shortly after the attack?. Were they completely unaware of what had gone on there?
> ...



They only decontaminated places visited by the Skripal's, it appears whatever vessel was used in that attack had been dumped elsewhere, it's suspected in the park that this couple visited, but the Skripal's hadn't, which would make sense.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 7, 2018)

A police officer has been admitted to Salisbury hospital - may have been exposed to novichok.


----------



## kenny g (Jul 7, 2018)

Jesus Christ. This is getting insane.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 8, 2018)

Police officer now cleared.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 8, 2018)

If this was caused by the leftovers from the first assassination attempt then the assassins were surprisingly unprofessional, surely their aim should have been to 1) kill their targets and 2) affect no one else, it seems they failed at both ..


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jul 8, 2018)

The woman has now died: Murder inquiry after Novichok woman dies


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 8, 2018)

All the conspiranauts keep blaming Porton Down? Why?

The Skripals were known to Russia, where Russian, and Skripal, iirc, was a double agent at one time. But we can't believe that state actors were involved!?!


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 8, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> All the conspiranauts keep blaming Porton Down? Why?
> 
> The Skripals were known to Russia, where Russian, and Skripal, iirc, was a double agent at one time. But we can't believe that state actors were involved!?!


The chaos of the 1990s created the situation where the distinction between the Russian state and independent (basically mafia) actors can often be more blurred than many people seem to think. Putin, and those around him, have never been in total control of what goes on even when the intention might be to support them. Putin is basically the arbiter between different organised crime interests, with the government and state officials being the biggest mafia gang. And even within that picture there are rivalries. The situation is probably permanent, no matter what happens to Putin and the present government.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 8, 2018)

Buddy Bradley said:


> The woman has now died: Murder inquiry after Novichok woman dies


Holy crap!


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 8, 2018)

Not sure these two were very well to start with from the various bits of innuendo/rumour going round, which might have affected their chances of survival. The women who died looks very thin in that footage of her in a shop on the BBC news website. Poor fuckers.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Jul 8, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Not sure these two were very well to start with from the various bits of innuendo/rumour going round, which might have affected their chances of survival. The women who died looks very thin in that footage of her in a shop on the BBC news website. Poor fuckers.



Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.  Homelessness and drug use is going to weaken them and reduce their ability to overcome something like this.  Such a shame they were caught up in this madness.


----------



## chainsawjob (Jul 9, 2018)

Buddy Bradley said:


> The woman has now died: Murder inquiry after Novichok woman dies


Oh that's awful! How terribly sad.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

Bad news indeed.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 9, 2018)




----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 9, 2018)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.  Homelessness and drug use is going to weaken them and reduce their ability to overcome something like this.  Such a shame they were caught up in this madness.


Were they homeless? I've missed that bit.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Were they homeless? I've missed that bit.



IIRC she lived in a homeless shelter, he had a flat.

ETA:


> Dawn, who lived in John Baker House, a homeless hostel in Salisbury, was seen buying alcohol from her local cornershop just hours before she fell ill on June 30.


- from The Sun, so I'll not link.


----------



## justin credible (Jul 9, 2018)

It is terribly sad that this woman has died.  
I hope that her friend can pull through.

I was thinking about the issue of the contaminated object and was thinking that one possibility, albeit very old school, is that the contaminated object could possibly have been one or more pieces of jewellery.

There is a long tradition of poison being stored covertly in rings and other pieces of jewellery.

The Weird World of Vintage Poison Rings - Retroette

If the substance was stored as 2 inert substances ready to be combined into one active substance it could have been stored in a pair of earrings or in a ring / pendant combination or even in separate elements of one piece of jewellery such as a necklace.

I have designed jewellery myself and I think that anyone with rudimentary design / engineering skills could feasibly design one or more pieces of jewellery that could function as a storage / delivery device.

I was thinking that this might be a more logical possibility as the woman became very ill before the man, whereas the man was the one who had struggled with addiction.  An ampule is still a possibility, but I think that jewellery as a storage / delivery device is definitely a possibility and would explain why this unfortunate woman became ill before her friend.

I can imagine a scenario in which many women, if enjoying a picnic in a park, might be delighted to find discarded jewellery and probably would not feel any caution about examining it closely and trying it on.

Just sharing some thoughts.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 9, 2018)

Is this mystery ever going to be solved? How can it even be possible to find the 1 thing that these 2 people touched?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

It's like looking for a needle in a haystack.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 9, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Is this mystery ever going to be solved? How can it even be possible to find the 1 thing that these 2 people touched?



i think the one absolute is that the Police and Security Service have built up a great deal more information/intelligence about the first attack than they are willing to Tweet about, in fact i'd be quite surprised if they don't have an identity in the frame - identity does not of course mean a name and address, but it might be a face on CCTV, a used credit card, or a passport used on a flight, from which other things can be added to form a jigsaw, or more likely, a jigsaw with half the bits missing and no picture to work towards. the investigation also has an overseas dimension, in that SIS will be looking for traces of FSB/SVR and associated semi-governmental people moving through Europe around the time of the first attack, as will the domestic security agencies of the European countries. 

ping the attacker, use CCTV and other traces to determine the route they used, clear up around that route.


----------



## LDC (Jul 9, 2018)

They worked out the team behind the Litvinenko killing and have names for that, and same was worked out by other agencies with the Mossad job on Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh in Dubai. I bet if they don't have a good idea already I'm sure that in the longer term they'll work it out.


----------



## Waylon Jennings (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> IIRC she lived in a homeless shelter, he had a flat.
> 
> ETA:
> 
> - from The Sun, so I'll not link.


I read this earlier on the interent.


> I am slightly puzzled by the picture the media are trying to paint of Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess as homeless, unemployed addicts. The Guardian and Sky News both state that they were unemployed, yet Charlie was living in a very new house in Muggleton Road, Amesbury, which is pretty expensive. According to Zoopla homes range up to £430,000 and the cheapest ones are £270,000. They are all new build, on a new estate, which is still under construction.


----------



## keybored (Jul 9, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> I read this earlier on the interent.


Craig Murray again in case anyone was wondering.

```
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/the-amesbury-mystery/
```


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 9, 2018)

The whole area around Amesbury and Sailsbury is chocka with new builds. Especially with a lot of military in the area and housing for previously deployed families abroad (Germany etc)


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

keybored said:


> Craig Murray again in case anyone was wondering.
> 
> ```
> https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/the-amesbury-mystery/
> ```



Oh, that loon.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 9, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> I read this earlier on the interent.



if its new build estate it will almost certainly have some proportion of either 'affordable' or social housing in the mix, in addition to which its quite possible to be unemployed and own a nice house. i've not seen any actual evidence to suggest that the media and police are incorrect in their statements about the socio-economic circumstances of either of the victims...


----------



## keybored (Jul 9, 2018)

No, it's definitely a conspiracy to murder homeowners or something.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, that loon.


Best to stick with the facts as presented by the mail and the sun.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Best to stick with the facts as presented by the mail and the sun.



What you think the guy lived in a house?

So, why have the police sealed off his flat?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 9, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Is this mystery ever going to be solved? How can it even be possible to find the 1 thing that these 2 people touched?



If neither survives to tell the tale it seems incredibly unlikely.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> What you think the guy lived in a house?
> 
> So, why have the police sealed off his flat?


A new house...but obviously it all falls apart if it's actually a new flat because...reasons.

Doesn't look like a typical addict

Charles Rowley


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> A new house...but obviously it all falls apart if it's actually a new flat atbecause...reasons.



Because, if he can't tell the different between a flat and a house, and makes a big thing about house prices, he falls at the first fence. 

Is the flat part of social housing? Is the flat rented? Did he buy it from inherited money? 



> Doesn't look like a typical addict Charles Rowley



Did you miss the fact that he's a registered addict, and on prescription, therefore perfectly capable of leading a fairly normal life, and getting dressed, in a suit?  

He's a loon, as are you.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Because, if he can't tell the different between a flat and a house, and makes a big thing about house prices, he falls at the first fence.
> 
> Is the flat part of social housing? Is the flat rented? Did he buy it from inherited money?
> 
> ...


Well you're obviously privvy to all the facts...you're getting them from the sun so carry on keeping us updated with the truth.

I'm not really a sun reader, or the mail.   

If I want to know what the sun and mail are saying...I just come here


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Well you're obviously privvy to all the facts...you're getting them from the sun so carry on keeping us updated with the truth.
> 
> I'm not really a sun reader, or the mail.
> 
> If I want to know what the sun and mail are saying...I just come here



You are making yourself look a even bigger twat, as I don't read either the sun nor the mail, but I know the different between a police statement saying they sealed off his flat, with no mention of if it was rented or not, and a loon claiming he owned a house.

I don't supposed you even looked at the zoopla link, showing the cheapest house at £270k is 3-beds? He had a flat, maybe one or at a push 2 beds, that would be a fuck lots cheaper. Funny enough no flats are currently for sale on that search, so there's a good chance they are part of the developer's social housing quota.

Craig Murray is a loon, that makes up shit, to suck in gullible twats like you.


----------



## keybored (Jul 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Doesn't look like a typical addict



What does a "typical addict" look like?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

Actually. DexterTCN, I'll make is simple for you, by way of illustration, that loon Craig Murray is banging on about houses costing between £270k & £430k, well this is the one on sale for £270k...

 

And, this is the block of flats where Rowley lived...

 

Spot any difference? Because clearly your pet loon can't.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> You are making yourself look a even bigger twat, as I don't read either the sun nor the mail...


You just posted an excerpt from the sun.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Actually. DexterTCN, I'll make is simple for you....


Fuck off you ignorant _cunt_.

Arrogant prick.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> You just posted an excerpt from the sun.



A brief paragraph, because it was the first of many search results returned, so I happened to click on it, and only then realised it was the Sun. This mistake doesn't make me a Sun reader, but, hey ho, you carry on making up shit, like your loony friend, if it makes you happy. 



DexterTCN said:


> Fuck off you ignorant _cunt_.
> 
> Arrogant prick.



Oh, he doesn't like photographic evidence, which makes a mockery of his loony friend, does he?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

I know it's like shooting fish in a barrel, but perhaps DexterTCN can rescue himself a little, by responding to this question... 



keybored said:


> What does a "typical addict" look like?



I doubt it, but it's worth a go, for a laugh.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> A brief paragraph, because it was the first of many search results returned, so I happened to click on it, and only then realised it was the Sun. This mistake doesn't make me a Sun reader, but, hey ho, you carry on making up shit, like your loony friend, if it makes you happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, he doesn't like photographic evidence, which makes a mockery of his loony friend, does he?


Yeah well you're a liar on the first, obviously.  You posted from the sun and knew what it was so that's the end of that.  "I accidentally posted a quote from the sun (but I never read) it after a google search"


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know it's like shooting fish in a barrel, but perhaps DexterTCN can rescue himself a little, by responding to this question...
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt it, but it's worth a go, for a laugh.


Maybe you'd like to tell us the relevance of the lady buying alcohol in the morning...like you posted from the sun?

Looks like nothing but shit smearing to me.

Why's it relevant?

Did you think it might be good for a laugh?


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 9, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> The whole area around Amesbury and Sailsbury is novichocka with new builds.



CFY


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Yeah well you're a liar on the first, obviously.  You posted from the sun and knew what it was so that's the end of that.  "I accidentally posted a quote from the sun (but I never read) it after a google search"



Me a liar, or you a loon, I'll leave others to judge on that one.

Meanwhile. any response to keybored's question? 

Having met addicts on prescription, living very normal lives, I would love to hear your answer to that,


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Maybe you'd like to tell us the relevance of the lady buying alcohol in the morning...like you posted from the sun?
> 
> Looks like nothing but shit smearing to me.
> 
> ...



You fucking dickhead. 

All their movements have been reported, because the police are back checking their movements, to try to find answers,

Seriously, are you that fucking thick?


----------



## Waylon Jennings (Jul 9, 2018)

@ Stupid cunt,what is it with you calling everyone a conspiricy loon etc that questions the officail story? You're promating the offical story like it's gospel. Ok it's a flat but at the start the MSN etc said they were homeless addicts. You getting paid for calling everone a conspiracy theorist/loon etc? The majority of comments if they are allowed on newspaper websites are saying why are they blaming the Russinas without any evidence and somthing isn't right about all this. Not many are questioning the story on here and the Skripals because you and quite a few others are calling them conspiracy loons.
One thing is for sure somthing is very fishy about all of this.


----------



## hipipol (Jul 9, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Don’t be ridiculous! Didn’t you know they were found only 10 miles from porton down? That’s where it came from. It’s a false flag! Because it’s impossible for novichok to be transported any further than 10 miles.


You are quite mad, are you not? Please can you also reveal the "TRUTH" that Porton Novochickeelicky Factory is controlled by giant cosmic fish, who, because they hide behind the moon are only known to a select few rebel Scientist Druids and that the Deep State( of stupidity you dwell in) is tied by a blood oath to slaughter all the remaining Druid Timeslugs by sacred fart projections?


----------



## keybored (Jul 9, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> @ Stupid cunt,what is it with you calling everyone a conspiricy loon etc that questions the officail story? You're promating the offical story like it's gospel. Ok it's a flat but at the start the MSN etc said they were homeless addicts. You getting paid for calling everone a conspiracy theorist/loon etc? The majority of comments if they are allowed on newspaper websites are saying why are they blaming the Russinas without any evidence and somthing isn't right about all this. Not many are questioning the story on here and the Skripals because you and quite a few others are calling them conspiracy loons.
> One thing is for sure somthing is very fishy about all of this.


I only get paid per reply (instead of per word) so I'll keep it short: Fuck off.


----------



## Waylon Jennings (Jul 9, 2018)

> I only get paid per reply (instead of per word) so I'll keep it short: Fuck off.



^Internet hard person


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> @ Stupid cunt,what is it with you calling everyone a conspiricy loon etc that questions the officail story? You're promating the offical story like it's gospel. Ok it's a flat but at the start the MSN etc said they were homeless addicts. You getting paid for calling everone a conspiracy theorist/loon etc? The majority of comments if they are allowed on newspaper websites are saying why are they blaming the Russinas without any evidence and somthing isn't right about all this. Not many are questioning the story on here and the Skripals because you and quite a few others are calling them conspiracy loons.
> One thing is for sure somthing is very fishy about all of this.



You're a newbie loon, so I don't expect you'll be here for long, so I am not going to waste too much of my time on you. 

You came on this thread posting nonsense from the loony Craig Murray about the cost of houses on that development, yet Charlie Rowley was living in a housing association flat, you & DexterTCN are complete twats for swallowing any nonsense posted by Murray. 



> MSN etc said they were homeless addicts


 No they didn't, right from the start they reported on the police focusing on his flat, how does that translate into him being homeless, in that tiny little head of yours?


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Me a liar, or you a loon, I'll leave others to judge on that one.
> 
> Meanwhile. any response to keybored's question?
> 
> Having met addicts on prescription, living very normal lives, I would love to hear your answer to that,



Oh you've met an addict, great.  I'm a carer for one (used to be two) so shut your mouth, you know fuck all.  

So here is this thread...just like the other thread...on this thread the government line will be taken, just like the other thread.

Any deviations will be cast as loonery...said posters to be loons.  Just like the other thread.


----------



## Waylon Jennings (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> No they didn't, right from the start they reported on the police focusing on his flat, how does that translate into him being homeless, in that tiny little head of yours?



Stupid Cunt ohh yes they did na.na na na nah.


----------



## keybored (Jul 9, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> ^Internet hard person


I just had an email telling me you've started a private conversation with me. I should warn you that pays double per reply.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

Poor old DexterTCN making up shit again - 'Oh you've met an addict' - no, I said 'Having met addict*s*' - do you have trouble counting beyond one, like you have trouble reading? 

So, again, as keybored asked, 'what's a typical addict'? We are still waiting for that answer from you.

And, I am open to hear anything else you want to add, and indeed the same from your new pet, Wayloony, ideally not stuff from proven liars & loons, so over to you guys to entertain us.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

Oh he's my pet is he?  

And you have an 'us' and you have a 'we'.

I think that'll do now.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Oh he's my pet is he?
> 
> And you have an 'us' and you have a 'we'.
> 
> I think that'll do now.



So, you're in retreat, because you have fuck all to add to the thread, apart from nonsense from a proven loon's blog, and having had your arse delivered on a plate, well, off you fuck then, don't let the door catch your arse on the way out.


----------



## hipipol (Jul 9, 2018)

A couple of observations, if for no other reason than there seems to be enough venom on here already so I shant get deeply involved but actually to point out the simplistic nature of many, apparently generally held, opinions
1 Drug addiction, of itself does not make people entirely stupid. Junkies rarely if ever pick up used sets of used works when they see them lying in the street. The man concerned seems to have picked up a scrip in Boots, more than likely methadone if he had a heroin addiction, which them implies he was trying at least to restrict/control his use, also it is not possible to inject the syrup so there would have been little inducement to pick up a random set of used works found abandoned by some unknown person. The only indication that she may have had some substance abuse problem is, A that she lived in a homeless hostel, B she was with the man who did have a smack prob. Instead of looking at what we actually know, there seems to be a consensus that a pair of hopeless, homeless down and out junkies, driven so mad by fiendish lust for drugs that they picked poisonous shit from the gutter, what else can be expected? If I read that in the Mail, I would not be surprised, but to read it here and not see it properly called out, is, to me at least, really shocking
2 The idea that somehow this is some Government ploy, using Porton Down as the epicentre of a fiendish plot, to do some unspecified nefarious nastiness to its own people. The first question must be, Why? The implicit acceptance of the idea that "Govts always experiment on their own people" may be true on the level of allowing the poorly prepared Brexit plebiscite nonsense or even Ian Dumbas-Shit, with his fatuously fabulous Universal Chaos fiasco, but using binary nerve agents on some random non military, non intelligence targets for no apparent purpose or benefit is tragic - we have been reduced to this? Accepting fantastical nonsensical crap merely because it arrives quickly via the medium of a gossip website?
Let me posit another, I suspect more viable scenario - everything else, both in the legit media and across many free to babble locations.
It is unlikely that hypodermics, not used as far as we can tell in the Skripal attacks (gel painted on a door handle was the likeliest we were previously informed) have survived intact, unnoticed and untouched only to be found by two random drug fiends. Given the Russians reaction to the first attacks, the "have you dropped something from Porton?" to deliberately set up by Porton on the orders of UK Govt, a mix of faux comical response to the posture of anger - it seems that perhaps Moscow was not entirely aware of what was afoot until after the event (Mail and Telegraph columnists position) or more plausibly was not expecting the media response and subsequent publicity on the eve of the World Cup ( big thing for Russia soft power policy) thus demanding a stronger response
I think this is a deliberate and separate attack on two random people by a State Agency created in order to denigrate the investigation by the UK Police into the first attack. The UK Govt position was the first attack was to take out two known spies, who would appear to still have on going disagreements with Moscow. Russia says, these are very low level, no longer a problem for us, etc. Skripals themselves, this position is tenable, as a method to put the frighteners on others tho, Moscow looks wobblier. Take out to random peeps in the same town, much later, Moscow goes back to, its come from Porton, people, not just on here, start to partially believe this tosh. However feeble the reason for the first attack, the second is much more targeted and with more obvious tangible results for Vlad, Bear Man Wrestler, plausible deniability
I suspect they both got bigger doses than the Skripals, the intention being to leave no evidence trail; equally, I would be very surprised if anything were ever found that proved to be the container for the nerve agent


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> Stupid Cunt ohh yes they did na.na na na nah.



Somehow I missed this earlier, child, so you are denying that all the early reports didn't mention the main news, i.e. that it was all going down at Craig Murray's flat, and therefore he couldn't possibly be homeless, but instead reported he was homeless? 

You clearly have been following different reports to me, I'll look forward to you providing links to all this MSM coverage that I missed.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 9, 2018)

hipipol said:


> A couple of observations, if for no other reason than there seems to be enough venom on here already so I shant get deeply involved but actually to point out the simplistic nature of many, apparently generally held, opinions
> 1 Drug addiction, of itself does not make people entirely stupid. Junkies rarely if ever pick up used sets of used works when they see them lying in the street. The man concerned seems to have picked up a scrip in Boots, more than likely methadone if he had a heroin addiction, which them implies he was trying at least to restrict/control his use, also it is not possible to inject the syrup so there would have been little inducement to pick up a random set of used works found abandoned by some unknown person. The only indication that she may have had some substance abuse problem is, A that she lived in a homeless hostel, B she was with the man who did have a smack prob. Instead of looking at what we actually know, there seems to be a consensus that a pair of hopeless, homeless down and out junkies, driven so mad by fiendish lust for drugs that they picked poisonous shit from the gutter, what else can be expected? If I read that in the Mail, I would not be surprised, but to read it here and not see it properly called out, is, to me at least, really shocking
> 2 The idea that somehow this is some Government ploy, using Porton Down as the epicentre of a fiendish plot, to do some unspecified nefarious nastiness to its own people. The first question must be, Why? The implicit acceptance of the idea that "Govts always experiment on their own people" may be true on the level of allowing the poorly prepared Brexit plebiscite nonsense or even Ian Dumbas-Shit, with his fatuously fabulous Universal Chaos fiasco, but using binary nerve agents on some random non military, non intelligence targets for no apparent purpose or benefit is tragic - we have been reduced to this? Accepting fantastical nonsensical crap merely because it arrives quickly via the medium of a gossip website?
> Let me posit another, I suspect more viable scenario - everything else, both in the legit media and across many free to babble locations.
> ...


Eh, wut 

Started well but quickly downhill


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> You came on this thread posting nonsense from the loony Craig Murray about the cost of houses on that development, yet Charlie Rowley was living in a housing association flat, you & DexterTCN are complete twats for swallowing any nonsense posted by Murray.



I read (and hence my post) an interview or series of quotes from the leader of the local council, who said that that the chap was homeless but they'd found him accommodation.  The council bod also settee surfing or something like that, and lived in the hostel.  That may all be complete bollocks, but it at least makes sense partly by the police sealing off the hostel.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I read (and hence my post) an interview or series of quotes from the leader of the local council, who said that that the chap was homeless but they'd found him accommodation.  The council bod also settee surfing or something like that, and lived in the hostel.  That may all be complete bollocks, but it at least makes sense partly by the police sealing off the hostel.



The hostel is where she lived, he had has own housing association flat, the main 'crime scene', right from the start.


----------



## Waylon Jennings (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Somehow I missed this earlier, child, so you are denying that all the early reports didn't mention the main news, i.e. that it was all going down at Craig Murray's flat, and therefore he couldn't possibly be homeless, but instead reported he was homeless?
> 
> You clearly have been following different reports to me, I'll look forward to you providing links to all this MSM coverage that I missed.


 Pointless providing any links and i'm not commenting on this topic anymore. You would just argue the toss about anything /keep calling people conspiracy loons etc..  Top tip though stop trying too hard with the offical story you stick out like a soore thumb. All i'm saying is and like the Skripal thread somthing isn't right about this lark.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> The hostel is where she lived, he had has own housing association flat, the main 'crime scene', right from the start.



Yeah - sorry - I forgot to add the council bod was saying that the woman lived in the hostel.  Missed that out of my post in error.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> Pointless providing any links and i'm not commenting on this topic anymore. You would just argue the toss about anything /keep calling people conspiracy loons etc..  Top tip though stop trying too hard with the offical story you stick out like a soore thumb. All i'm saying is and like the Skripal thread somthing isn't right about this lark.



And, the second loon retreats, because he hasn't a leg to stand on.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 9, 2018)

hipipol said:


> A couple of observations, if for no other reason than there seems to be enough venom on here already so I shant get deeply involved but actually to point out the simplistic nature of many, apparently generally held, opinions
> 1 Drug addiction, of itself does not make people entirely stupid. Junkies rarely if ever pick up used sets of used works when they see them lying in the street. The man concerned seems to have picked up a scrip in Boots, more than likely methadone if he had a heroin addiction, which them implies he was trying at least to restrict/control his use, also it is not possible to inject the syrup so there would have been little inducement to pick up a random set of used works found abandoned by some unknown person. The only indication that she may have had some substance abuse problem is, A that she lived in a homeless hostel, B she was with the man who did have a smack prob. Instead of looking at what we actually know, there seems to be a consensus that a pair of hopeless, homeless down and out junkies, driven so mad by fiendish lust for drugs that they picked poisonous shit from the gutter, what else can be expected? If I read that in the Mail, I would not be surprised, *but to read it here and not see it properly called out, is, to me at least, really shocking*



Except I called it out in post #99


----------



## Waylon Jennings (Jul 9, 2018)

A stupid Cunt wrote:-


> And, the second loon retreats, because he hasn't a leg to stand on.




This is just getting nowhere. Do you call folk racist a lot to shut down conversation when it suits you?


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

There was never any suggestion of the daughter being involved in spydom though.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 9, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> A stupid Cunt wrote:-
> 
> 
> 
> This is just getting nowhere. Do you call folk racist a lot to shut down conversation when it suits you?


If you're new you should reel it in a little till you see how things are.  Some posters will  just make you go too far and get banned.

And don't look for arguments, look for discussion.  Anyone just constantly attacks you or acts like a dick then just put them on ignore and talk to others.   There are lots of forums and threads here.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

Oh, both the loons are back again.

Have you ANYTHING to add to this thread? Apart from a loony's blog nonsense & your own fantasies?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> There was never any suggestion of the daughter being involved in spydom though.



She wasn't the target!


----------



## hipipol (Jul 9, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> Eh, wut
> 
> Started well but quickly downhill


Prob right, parts one and two are observations, the rest product of my imagination.....perhaps I shouldn't pick up random bags of weed myself.....


----------



## ddraig (Jul 9, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> A stupid Cunt wrote:-
> 
> 
> 
> This is just getting nowhere. Do you call folk racist a lot to shut down conversation when it suits you?


----------



## hipipol (Jul 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Except I called it out in post #99





Magnus McGinty said:


> Yep, they were drug addicts and then chanced upon some crack pipe and then just couldn’t help themselves.
> As oppposed to nerve agents being used on British soil and what the fuck is being done about it.
> You don’t half swallow some shit.


You did, but did you not notice at that time you were in a crowd of 1
When I said "properly called out", I wasn't insulting you, the only one to raise your voice, I was merely drawing attention to the loneliness of your voice
Well done mate


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2018)

ddraig said:


>



Your point, ddrage?


----------



## circleline (Jul 9, 2018)

Surely a true consensus:  It's all very odd...

But perhaps the oddity is the chemical agent itself..

After all, where has this been tested?  Surely not on an English lawn, prone to plentiful rainfall, before being baked in unseasonable heat..?  Like a ghastly seed, to flourish where least expected..? 

It's all very odd.. Was thinking: shoes; but presumably this (these) have been vigorously analysed...no 'container' type object found..?  Just trying to think, lol...(good job am not on hourly rate..  )


----------



## ddraig (Jul 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Your point, ddrage?


that that waylon posted a dodge post
can you please not mess with my username and carry on doing cross thread beefing?
i'm as miffed with these loon types as anyone else, nothing to do with you


----------



## 2hats (Jul 9, 2018)

hipipol said:


> Let me posit another, I suspect more viable scenario … I think this is a deliberate and separate attack on two random people by a State Agency created in order to denigrate the investigation by the UK Police into the first attack.


Or simply employ Occam’s Razor: these unfortunates blundered into the ditched prep materials from the original assault. The material was contained, in a relatively concentrated form, shielded from the environment. She opened/unwrapped/otherwise liberated (whatever it was) and received a large dose to the hands (as reported via DSTL testing). He handled the same or contaminated himself through her subsequently (perhaps in the process of trying to help her once symptoms developed).

Thread doesn’t need any more loonery.



circleline said:


> After all, where has this been tested?  Surely not on an English lawn


No. In an Uzbek desert and in labs in Saratov region.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 9, 2018)

Dafuq?


----------



## hipipol (Jul 9, 2018)

2hats said:


> Or simply employ Occam’s Razor: these unfortunates blundered into the ditched prep materials from the original assault. The material was contained, in a relatively concentrated form, shielded from the environment. She opened/unwrapped/otherwise liberated (whatever it was) and received a large dose to the hands (as reported via DSTL testing). He handled the same or contaminated himself through her subsequently (perhaps in the process of trying to help her once symptoms developed).
> Thread doesn’t need any more loonery.


Much of this sounds reasonable. It was/is a binary agent so it would need to be mixed, usually apparently by connecting the two vessels containing the precursors, which would have left one container requiring disposal, if this was from the original attack, surely they would want to remove any evidence that could connect back to themselves? Its the proverbial smoking gun, is it not?


----------



## 2hats (Jul 9, 2018)

hipipol said:


> if this was from the original attack, surely they would want to remove any evidence that could connect back to themselves? Its the proverbial smoking gun, is it not?


See my earlier comment about the act of disposal being compromised/on the verge of compromise.

Also, this is nothing like any other type of assassin’s weapon. Taking it with you, or attempting any convoluted/elaborate disposal scheme is very high risk - you need to get rid of it pronto before it incapacitates you (or additional victims=potential witnesses) and, in doing so, effectively hands the local authorities all the evidence they need to join the dots. Quick disposal is paramount.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 9, 2018)

Science Officer 2hats knows the fucking score. Listen to him


----------



## iona (Jul 9, 2018)

hipipol said:


> more than likely methadone if he had a heroin addiction, which them implies he was trying at least to restrict/control his use, also it is not possible to inject the syrup



It's not _advisable_ to inject it. Definitely possible though.


----------



## keybored (Jul 9, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> Science Officer 2hats knows the fucking score. Listen to him


Blatant M15 plant.

[/tinfoil]


----------



## kebabking (Jul 10, 2018)

keybored said:


> Blatant M15 plant.
> 
> [/tinfoil]



The Mossad shurely? Never forget the hand of the Jooooos.....


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 10, 2018)

hipipol said:


> You are quite mad, are you not? Please can you also reveal the "TRUTH" that Porton Novochickeelicky Factory is controlled by giant cosmic fish, who, because they hide behind the moon are only known to a select few rebel Scientist Druids and that the Deep State( of stupidity you dwell in) is tied by a blood oath to slaughter all the remaining Druid Timeslugs by sacred fart projections?


You realised I was being sarcastic right?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2018)

Thinking about last night's loonery...

So, reporting her buying drink from a shop was designed to discredit her? So, I assume reporting he had pick-up his 'script from Boots was designed to do the same, to him? So, everything reported about what they did that day was designed to discredit them? I mean what sort of low-lives would spend some time on a sunny day in Queen Elizabeth Gardens? And, attending a hog roast and family fun day at the Amesbury Baptist Church Centre, what absolute scumbags! 

Or, of course, it could have just been a perfectly normal reporting of a perfectly normal police investigation, involving retracing their movements on the day, as everywhere they visited - the shop/off-licence, Boots, the gardens, Baptist Centre, etc. etc. - were potential sites of interest. 

Difficult one.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2018)

Looking at that Craig Murray blog post, not only does he [1] bang on about house prices, when Rowley lived in an housing association flat, but then [2] he goes on to mention that someone who liked one of Rowley's facebook posts is mortgage broker! 


> ...which is consistent with his brand new house. They don’t give mortgages to unemployed heroin addicts, and not many of those live in smart new “executive housing” estates.


 / 

So, [1] you make shit up & present it as a fact, then [2] you take an actual fact of little relevance, and present it as evidence to back-up the made-up 'fact', the typical MO of a conspiraloon.

Then you wait for people incapable of critical thinking to pick-up on in, and spread the shit around the internet, whilst jumping up & down screaming it's evidence of a false flag operation.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 10, 2018)

Waylon Jennings said:


> @ Stupid cunt,what is it with you calling everyone a conspiricy loon etc that questions the officail story? You're promating the offical story like it's gospel. Ok it's a flat but at the start the MSN etc said they were homeless addicts. You getting paid for calling everone a conspiracy theorist/loon etc? The majority of comments if they are allowed on newspaper websites are saying why are they blaming the Russinas without any evidence and somthing isn't right about all this. Not many are questioning the story on here and the Skripals because you and quite a few others are calling them conspiracy loons.
> One thing is for sure somthing is very fishy about all of this.


----------



## felixthecat (Jul 10, 2018)

Apology over 'Novichok' vodka range

Inappropriate maybe but it kinda made me laugh. Apparently it sold out in record time...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2018)

felixthecat said:


> Apology over 'Novichok' vodka range
> 
> Inappropriate maybe but it kinda made me laugh. Apparently it sold out in record time...



I posted that on the band bandwidthz thread, and A380 came back with this corker of a reply...



A380 said:


> Well, their Tabun and Tonic along with the Sarin Singapore Sling went down quite well.
> 
> Don’t know why people get so twitchy about nerve agents...





It's sort of funny, because they were such fuckwits in doing it, but bloody bad taste considering the situation.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 10, 2018)

ddraig said:


> that that waylon posted a dodge post
> can you please not mess with my username and carry on doing cross thread beefing?
> i'm as miffed with these loon types as anyone else, nothing to do with you


cupid_stunt ??


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2018)

ddraig said:


> cupid_stunt ??



I asked what your point was, it wasn't clear to me at the time, you answered, so what is the point of your latest post?


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2018)

Tagging him?

Great plan.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I asked what your point was, it wasn't clear to me at the time, you answered, so what is the point of your latest post?


you could acknowledge the response but obviously too much to expect


----------



## ice-is-forming (Jul 10, 2018)

iona said:


> It's not _advisable_ to inject it. Definitely possible though.



Ha! Yes, I have the scars to prove it


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2018)

felixthecat said:


> Apology over 'Novichok' vodka range
> 
> Inappropriate maybe but it kinda made me laugh. Apparently it sold out in record time...


When the bbc thinks 75 proof is 75% abv there is no quality left in journalism.

75 proof is 37.5% abv


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2018)

ddraig said:


> you could acknowledge the response but obviously too much to expect


Possible contender for bizzare post of the week.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Possible contender for bizzare post of the week.


No, you don't want to lose your three year winning streak


----------



## ddraig (Jul 10, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Possible contender for bizzare post of the week.


funny how your only 2 posts on this thread directed at me and completely off topic 
can you please stop disrupting it, thanks


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2018)

ddraig said:


> you could acknowledge the response but obviously too much to expect



Oh, FFS, I spotted your reply, just as I was going out last night & didn't have time to respond, I clicked on the thread this morning, and it took me straight to the first unread post, yours was forgotten, as they so often are. 

Ironic that you accuse me of cross-thread beef, when there was none, now fuck off with your cross-thread veg.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, FFS, I spotted your reply, just as I was going out last night & didn't have time to respond, I clicked on the thread this morning, and it took me straight to the first unread post, yours was forgotten, as they so often are.
> 
> Ironic that you accuse me of cross-thread beef, when there was none, now fuck off with your cross-thread veg.


how convenient
please stop the abuse and thread disruption, thanks


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2018)

ddraig said:


> how convenient



Clearly not for for you, and your feelings of entitlement.



> please stop the abuse and thread disruption, thanks



Just fuck off, you windbag.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Clearly not for for you, and your feelings of entitlement.
> 
> 
> 
> Just fuck off, you windbag.


why do you think it's ok to keep on with the abuse? 
i'm going to stop posting on this thread for now, not because of you and your attempts to silence and abuse me but for the sake of the thread


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2018)

ddraig said:


> funny how your only 2 posts on this thread directed at me and completely off topic
> can you please stop disrupting it, thanks


Fuck off. 

(Just to acknowledge the response like)


----------



## hipipol (Jul 10, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> You realised I was being sarcastic right?


I suspected you were, but tbh it was too good an opportunity to miss - I mean, where else was I going to be able to use the phrase "Rebel Scientist Druids"?
Thanking you profusely for establishing the platform I could sneak my own nonsense on.....


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2018)

ddraig said:


> why do you think it's ok to keep on with the abuse?
> i'm going to stop posting on this thread for now, not because of you and your attempts to silence and abuse me but for the sake of the thread



Good, not that I've tried to silence you on this thread, that's just you bringing your cross-thread beef veg onto a thread I started. 

How ironic.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 10, 2018)

hipipol said:


> I suspected you were, but tbh it was too good an opportunity to miss - I mean, where else was I going to be able to use the phrase "Rebel Scientist Druids"?
> Thanking you profusely for establishing the platform I could sneak my own nonsense on.....


It was funny - I just had to make sure you didn’t think I was actually that stupid


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Good, not that I've tried to silence you on this thread, that's just you bringing your cross-thread beef veg onto a thread I started.
> 
> How ironic.


For the sake of everyone else I've put you and ddraig on mutual ignore for a month. This means you do not respond to eahc other's posts or reference each other in any way, else a warning will follow.


----------



## andysays (Jul 10, 2018)

Today's developments on this thread are even more bizarre than the conspiraloonary of yesterday


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2018)

editor said:


> For the sake of everyone else I've put you and ddraig on mutual ignore for a month. This means you do not respond to eahc other's posts or reference each other in any way, else a warning will follow.



Thanks for that, I always wondered how 'mutual ignore' works, I now can't see any of his posts, not even the option to 'click to read ignored content', so no chance of quoting him or replying to him, interesting...


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Thanks for that, I always wondered how 'mutual ignore' works, I now can't see any of his posts, not even the option to 'click to read ignored content', so no chance of quoting him or replying to him, interesting...


FYI: You're now not supposed to mention him_ at all. _


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2018)

editor said:


> FYI: You're now not supposed to mention him_ at all. _



I didn't actually mention him, but point taken all the same.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 10, 2018)

Charlie Rowley is still very ill but has regained consciousness. Which is excellent news for him and good news for possible further investigations as to how he and his partner contracted the poisoning.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 10, 2018)

editor said:


> FYI: You're now not supposed to mention him_ at all. _


Woop woop it's the sound of da abstract personal pronoun police


----------



## emanymton (Jul 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I didn't actually mention him, but point taken all the same.


Just refer to 'he who must not be named'.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 10, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Just refer to 'he who must not be named'.



i would go for _he who must not be named, if indeed he, or she, or whatever gender pronoun they chose, have a name, or indeed if they exist. or not_.

if you're going to do it, it should be a proper pisstake.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 10, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Charlie Rowley is still very ill but has regained consciousness. Which is excellent news for him and good news for possible further investigations as to how he and his partner contracted the poisoning.


Likely the _regaining_ of consciousness is actually medically mediated after immobilisation to control the original symptoms (involuntary spasming).  Fingers crossed but nerve agent exposure can impair memory.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, FFS, I spotted your reply, just as I was going out last night & didn't have time to respond, I clicked on the thread this morning, and it took me straight to the first unread post, yours was forgotten, as they so often are.
> 
> Ironic that you accuse me of cross-thread beef, when there was none, now fuck off with your cross-thread veg.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2018)

ddraig said:


> how convenient
> please stop the abuse and thread disruption, thanks


Who died and made you a mod?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Thanks for that, I always wondered how 'mutual ignore' works, I now can't see any of his posts, not even the option to 'click to read ignored content', so no chance of quoting him or replying to him, interesting...


I don't think it'd be a bad idea to put ddraig and everyone on Urban on mutual ignore...


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Just refer to 'he who must not be named'.


"volddemort"


----------



## emanymton (Jul 10, 2018)

existentialist said:


> "volddemort"


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Charlie Rowley is still very ill but has regained consciousness. Which is excellent news for him and good news for possible further investigations as to how he and his partner contracted the poisoning.



Some good news, let's hope he recovers, and can also provide the police with the information needed too pinpoint how they came into contact with the novichok, if whatever container was involved can be recovered, hopefully there will not be anymore victims.


----------



## Riklet (Jul 11, 2018)

Fingers crossed he pulls through.

I dont know how long novichok would take to affect him but he had a shower after picking up his script from Boots.

Could have been something in the flat bathroom or something they found/handled/picked up which then contaminated them both there?

The friend with him and who phoned the ambulance was given the all clear, as was this copper. I think it's verey very unlikely they directly pinned or ingested the novichok as even if it had degraded since March, surely that would be rapidly fatal? Also as others have said, this seems unlikely. Also unlikely the novichok would have been in a vial or loose powder, although maybe it was stored in something innocuous.

Considering the victims of the original poisoning in March didnt die, what are people's thoughts on the dose being too low as some of the novichok was discarded, lost, split or forgotten? If there was some remaining which survived the clear up operation it would make sense as to why this latest couple were so badly affected.

Anyway definitely need more info because it must be awful for the residents and those in the area.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2018)

> The Wiltshire man poisoned by novichok is no longer in a critical condition and has begun talking to detectives who are trying to find the source and location of the nerve agent.



Sounding good, but could be a wait yet...



> Detectives from Scotland Yard’s counter-terrorism command believe they may have to wait days for Rowley to regain his memory and the ability to focus on the questions he is being asked.



Novichok victim out of critical condition and speaking to police


----------



## chainsawjob (Jul 11, 2018)

Riklet said:


> Anyway definitely need more info because it must be awful for the residents and those in the area.



This ^^^.

Awful for parents of little kids who pick things up, everyone must be extremely worried and careful. It's not knowing how the couple came across the novichok, and how worried you should be, that's the difficult thing I imagine.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 13, 2018)

Police just announcing that they believe the source of the nerve agent to be a small bottle found at the Mr Rowley's house in Amesbury.

Full Met Police statement here. Excerpt:


> On Wednesday, 11 July, a small bottle was recovered during searches of Charlie Rowley’s house in Amesbury. It was taken to the Defence, Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) at Porton Down, Wiltshire, for tests.
> 
> Following those tests, scientists have now confirmed to us that the substance contained within the bottle is Novichok. Further scientific tests will be carried out to try and establish whether it is from the same batch that contaminated Sergei and Yulia Skripal in March – this remains a main line of enquiry for police.
> 
> Inquiries are under way to establish where the bottle came from and how it came to be in Charlie’s house.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2018)

2hats said:


> Police just announcing that they believe the source of the nerve agent to be a small bottle found at the Mr Rowley's house in Amesbury.



I was about to post the same:



> Police have found the source of novichok that killed a woman and left her partner severely ill in Wiltshire.
> 
> The nerve agent was discovered inside a "small bottle" in Charlie Rowley's home in Amesbury.
> 
> The discovery will allow scientists at the government's Porton Down defence laboratory to test whether the substance is from the same batch used against Sergei Skripal.



Source of novichok found in bottle inside victim's home, police reveal

*awaits the loons to turn-up.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2018)

So, a small glass bottle, what some people might refer to as an ampoule, turns up at the victim's house, almost like they've picked it up and taken it home some might say.

Remind me what shit I was talking Magnus?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> So, a small glass bottle, what some people might refer to as an ampoule, turns up at the victim's house, almost like they've picked it up and taken it home some might say.



Or, the police managed to get a new supply from Porton Down & plant it, all very fishy.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2018)

Still think they should send it to wedinos. For the lulz etc. I mean a second opinion.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 13, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> So, a small glass bottle


The statement clearly says “small bottle” and nothing about glass. No further details about it released at this time.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Still think they should send it to wedinos. For the lulz etc. I mean a second opinion.



Send half to Waylon Jennings, and half to DexterTCN, for testing, would solve a few problems around here.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2018)

2hats said:


> The statement clearly says “small bottle” and nothing about glass. No further details about it released at this time.



They just said glass on the radio news. And on the Telegraph website.



> Counter terrorism investigators said they had recovered a small glass bottle from the home of victim, Charlie Rowley, which had tested positive for Novichok.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2018)

Just seen a post elsewhere, suggesting the finding of the container has been timed to deflect some of the media attention away from the anti-Trump demos.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 13, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> So, a small glass bottle, what some people might refer to as an ampoule, turns up at the victim's house, almost like they've picked it up and taken it home some might say.
> 
> Remind me what shit I was talking Magnus?



I know you see yourself as important but I’ve made two posts on the thread, neither of which address you personally.

E2a: and my point anyway wasn’t that anyone was ‘talking shit’, it irked me how the couple were being pushed as responsible for their own demise for being ‘drug addicts’.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I know you see yourself as important



Do fuck off Magnus. No idea (for a change) wtf you are on about. Or why.



> and my point anyway wasn’t that anyone was ‘talking shit’, it irked me how the couple were being pushed as responsible for their own demise for being ‘drug addicts’.



This is something I would never have done.

Maybe I misunderstood you. You certainly don't have a fucking clue about me.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 13, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Do fuck off Magnus. No idea (for a change) wtf you are on about. Or why.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well would you like to point out where I accused you of ‘talking shit’ or kindly apologise for your little dig?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 13, 2018)

Wonder how they found this shit anyway


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well would you like to point out where I accused you of ‘talking shit’ or kindly apologise for your little dig?



I can clear up misunderstanding if that suits?

In #99 you had a dig at a line you quoted from justin credible. This is the same line I was agreeing with in my #96.

Which is why I assumed your dig "you don't half swallow some shit" was partly aimed at me.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> E2a: and my point anyway wasn’t that anyone was ‘talking shit’, it irked me how the couple were being pushed as responsible for their own demise for being ‘drug addicts’.



Has anyone done that? Did a miss something?


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2018)

Ah fuck it. Go on then. Any ideas why they've taken 10/11 days to find this 'bottle' in a flat they were searching? I mean, I know they missed my mate's scales back in the 90s when they were nicking him for a few grass plants but...novichok slightly more serious?


----------



## 2hats (Jul 13, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Any ideas why they've taken 10/11 days to find this 'bottle' in a flat they were searching? I mean, I know they missed my mate's scales back in the 90s when they were nicking him for a few grass plants but...novichok slightly more serious?


Were you prepping for and wearing full hazmat gear at the time and working in 30 degC heat?

If you’ve been following any of the reports you’ll know they’ve only been able to search in 20-30 minutes shifts. Then each suspect item, once isolated, packaged and removed, has to undergo testing…

PS The police statement some journalists refer to makes no mention of glass. It may well turn out to be glass but it would appear that there is some dot joining going on sans dots.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2018)

They have been talking to Charlie Rowley, hardly unreasonable to think he may have given them a clue, is it?


----------



## 2hats (Jul 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> They have been talking to Charlie Rowley, hardly unreasonable to think he may have given them a clue, is it?


Maybe. He reportedly only started talking in the last few days. To what degree his memory is impaired isn’t public knowledge. We also have no idea what state the flat was in. Timescales seem reasonable.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 13, 2018)

Pembroke Castle is currently sealed off and the scene of a fairly major intervention, after someone reportedly found a bottle with "novichok" written on it 

Pembroke Castle evacuated due to 'unknown substance' - police and fire crews at the scene


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Pembroke Castle is currently sealed off and the scene of a fairly major intervention, after someone reportedly found a bottle with "novichok" written on it
> 
> Pembroke Castle evacuated due to 'unknown substance' - police and fire crews at the scene



Fucking hell, some twat decided to write novicho on a bottle & plant it for the lolz?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Fucking hell, some twat decided to write novicho on a bottle & plant it for the lolz?


Seems the likeliest option. And perhaps the most hopeful one.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 14, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Any ideas why they've taken 10/11 days to find this 'bottle' in a flat they were searching?


Further to this the police have released more details about the process of searching the flat and other suspect scenes:


> Once each deployment has been planned, protective equipment for each individual takes around 40 minutes to put on and is specifically selected depending on the activity and role they will be carrying out inside the scene.
> 
> This is done inside forensic tents to ensure the suits remain sterile before entering the crime scene, but with the recent hot weather, temperatures inside the tents have been reaching in excess of 40 degrees centigrade.
> 
> ...


Additionally:


> Blood samples from everyone entering a scene are taken regularly and compared against a baseline sample to check for any signs of exposure to the nerve agent that they are working to find.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 14, 2018)

All stood down at Pembroke Castle, now. I imagine it was a hoax.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 15, 2018)

> More than 400 exhibits, samples and items have been recovered by police investigating the Amesbury novichok poisoning, with officers warning searches could last months.
> More than 400 items to be examined in Amesbury novichok investigation



Blimey.


----------



## elbows (Jul 15, 2018)

Perfume bottle according to the brother:

Novichok 'found in perfume bottle'


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 15, 2018)

So not drugs related then. There’ll be some disappointment for those who responded to that dog whistle.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 15, 2018)

elbows said:


> Perfume bottle according to the brother:
> 
> Novichok 'found in perfume bottle'




Bloody sad  ....that poor woman Dawn Sturgess, must have sprayed it thinking it was perfume.


----------



## tim (Jul 15, 2018)

2hats said:


> Were you prepping for and wearing full hazmat gear at the time and working in 30 degC heat?
> 
> If you’ve been following any of the reports you’ll know they’ve only been able to search in 20-30 minutes shifts. Then each suspect item, once isolated, packaged and removed, has to undergo testing…
> 
> PS The police statement some journalists refer to makes no mention of glass. It may well turn out to be glass but it would appear that there is some dot joining going on sans dots.



The fact that tgey managed to overlook two guinea pigs and a cat in their last search didn't leave me over impressed.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 15, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> Bloody sad  ....that poor woman Dawn Sturgess, must have sprayed it thinking it was perfume.


This is what you might call a motiveless crime.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 15, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> Bloody sad  ....that poor woman Dawn Sturgess, must have sprayed it thinking it was perfume.


I wouldn't be at all surprised if the couple were paid to deploy the poison (most probably unwittingly but maybe in full knowledge) and that's why they were in possession. 
Thanks to spy films the public have this glamorous view of spies jetting around doing deeds personally. 
The reality is that agents invariably trick patsys into carrying out dirty work for them. A couple of drug addicts are easy pray to such.


----------



## elbows (Jul 15, 2018)




----------



## existentialist (Jul 15, 2018)

Gromit said:


> I wouldn't be at all surprised if the couple were paid to deploy the poison (most probably unwittingly but maybe in full knowledge) and that's why they were in possession.
> Thanks to spy films the public have this glamorous view of spies jetting around doing deeds personally.
> The reality is that agents invariably trick patsys into carrying out dirty work for them. A couple of drug addicts are easy pray to such.


Jesus, Gromit


----------



## elbows (Jul 15, 2018)

I suppose the broader concept isnt completely out of this world but its not a strategy that is made heavy use of and the 'maybe in full knowledge' bit is the icing on the cake. Yeah right, they knew it was poison but you know, some time passed and being drug addicts they just forgot to dispose of the substance and then forgot not to use it as perfume.


----------



## IC3D (Jul 15, 2018)

Makes me think of times I've found bags of power and sniffed them. Its crazy but never did any harm. But an ampule of liquid I can't imagine what it could be or have any curiosity to find out.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 15, 2018)

IC3D said:


> Makes me think of times I've found bags of power and sniffed them. Its crazy but never did any harm. But an ampule of liquid I can't imagine what it could be or have any curiosity to find out.



But if it was like a bottle of perfume could you imagine that someone might spray it to see what it smells like?


----------



## elbows (Jul 15, 2018)

And almost the only reason I'm saying the broader concept isnt completely out of this world is the defence of being unwilling pawns that the women accused of murdering Kim Jong Nam have employed. Perhaps there are other examples from history, its hardly a subject I am well versed in. I've got no bloody good reason to 'not be surprised' if it were the case in this instance though, especially given the time that passed between the attempted killing and this fresh tragedy.


----------



## keybored (Jul 15, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Fucking hell, some twat decided to write novicho on a bottle & plant it for the lolz?





existentialist said:


> Seems the likeliest option. And perhaps the most hopeful one.



...or



felixthecat said:


> Apology over 'Novichok' vodka range
> 
> Inappropriate maybe but it kinda made me laugh. Apparently it sold out in record time...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 16, 2018)

Gromit said:


> I wouldn't be at all surprised if the couple were paid to deploy the poison (most probably unwittingly but maybe in full knowledge) and that's why they were in possession.
> Thanks to spy films the public have this glamorous view of spies jetting around doing deeds personally.
> The reality is that agents invariably trick patsys into carrying out dirty work for them. A couple of drug addicts are easy pray to such.


Fuck me. You sound like a parody of squirrelp... but with an IQ of about 7.


----------



## IC3D (Jul 16, 2018)

This is an ampule of lidocaine for reference. I think they may have thought they'd scored


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Fuck me. You sound like a parody of squirrelp... but with an IQ of about 7.


Assassination of Kim Jong-nam - Wikipedia

Reality TV prank. Oh wait?! Duped into being an assassin. 

But no too far fetched for you despite it the fact it happened.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 16, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Assassination of Kim Jong-nam - Wikipedia
> 
> Reality TV prank. Oh wait?! Duped into being an assassin.
> 
> But no too far fetched for you despite it the fact it happened.


I'm quite long in the tooth, now, and the only thing I ever find too-far-fetched or astounding these days is your responses to threads on here, and the fact that people (including me) still reply to you.


----------



## keybored (Jul 16, 2018)

IC3D said:


> This is an ampule of lidocaine for reference. I think they may have thought they'd scored


That doesn't look like any perfume I've ever seen.


----------



## IC3D (Jul 16, 2018)

keybored said:


> That doesn't look like any perfume I've ever seen.


I'm tired and not really following, read ampule


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 16, 2018)

keybored said:


> That doesn't look like any perfume I've ever seen.


Looks a lot like the stink-bombs we used to get in the 70s/80s


----------



## pesh (Jul 16, 2018)

Gromit said:


> I wouldn't be at all surprised if the couple were paid to deploy the poison (most probably unwittingly but maybe in full knowledge) and that's why they were in possession.
> Thanks to spy films the public have this glamorous view of spies jetting around doing deeds personally.
> The reality is that agents invariably trick patsys into carrying out dirty work for them. A couple of drug addicts are easy pray to such.


oh fuck off.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 16, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Assassination of Kim Jong-nam - Wikipedia
> 
> Reality TV prank. Oh wait?! Duped into being an assassin.
> 
> But no too far fetched for you despite it the fact it happened.



Something that sounds far-fetched once happened (possibly) ≠ Things that sound far-fetched are generally likely to be true.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 16, 2018)

Yes, elite assassins would probably give the stuff to marginal drug addicts/alcoholics to deploy, that’d make sense, the kind of people you can rely on not to fuck it up and who aren’t likely to have a brush with the law and blurt out about it to the police to win favour.

Fuck sake.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 16, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Yes, elite assassins would probably give the stuff to marginal drug addicts/alcoholics to deploy, that’d make sense, the kind of people you can rely on not to fuck it up and who aren’t likely to have a brush with the law and blurt out about it to the police to win favour.
> 
> Fuck sake.



in normal circumstances i'd agree with you, i come from a world where there is an incredibly tight grip on the use of munitions - if you want to use one you have to be bloody sure where its going to go, and you have to be bloody sure of whats there, and if theres anything/one there that isn't on your target list then the fire mission gets scrubbed. thats what we are used to, as clean a kill as possible and within set parameters, if the proposed op can't fit within the parameters then you bin it and try again later.

but so much of this poisoning hasn't so much got amateurism written through it so much as just total recklessness: there seems to be so little care taken with the targetting (the original point was the door knob, it could have been absolutely anyone who touched the doorknob, but they didn't care), so little care taken with the munition in that a huge swathe of Salisbury was contaminated - police, NHS workers, and every where the Skripals' went - and now we have the remains of the munition just cast aside, it might have been lobbed into a bin or a skip, or a hedge, certainly not disposed of like any kind of nerve agent should be disposed of.

in that case, with so many of the normal 'rules' just cast aside with gay abandon, why not cast other rules aside?

personally i think its pretty unlikely, but so is what happened, so i think to discount stuff because its haphazard, lazy, unsafe and ill-considered is to ignore the reality of what has been done already.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 16, 2018)

kebabking said:


> but so much of this poisoning hasn't so much got amateurism written through it so much as just total recklessness


Similar MO to the Litvinenko poisoning.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 16, 2018)

Charlie Rowley's brother quotes Charlie as saying he had picked-up the discarded bottle, which on the balance of probabilities is far more likely than the couple having any involvement, wittingly or unwittingly, in the original poisoning IMO.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2018)

So they were given the poison by the Russians, popped over to Salisbury to administer it to the Skirpals, then despite presumably followed the resulting news coverage about their victims fighting for life decided to keep the evidence lying around. Then a few weeks later they decided to have a quick snort of the stuff for themselves, because despite having been paid to assassinate someone with it they fancied their chances of getting high?

Seems legit.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 16, 2018)

I bet one, or both, used to work at Porton Down too.


----------



## elbows (Jul 16, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I bet one, or both, used to work at Porton Down too.



For years their minds were controlled by the man, because it wasnt just any methadone they might have had a prescription for. Porton Methadown, see how obvious it is when time is taken to think about it. I'm a man of the world, exchanged my blinkers for stinkers.


----------



## Supine (Jul 20, 2018)

Couple of days ago in Germany the news was reporting two new suspects have been identified from CCTV who originally had the bottle that was found.  Anyone heard about this? Seems strange it's not bigger in the news if true.


----------



## agricola (Jul 20, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Yes, elite assassins would probably give the stuff to marginal drug addicts/alcoholics to deploy, that’d make sense, the kind of people you can rely on not to fuck it up and who aren’t likely to have a brush with the law and blurt out about it to the police to win favour.
> 
> Fuck sake.



That is exactly what happened in the 1963 Kurosawa film "_High and Low_". 

Well not exactly what happened - there the marginal drug addicts tried to kidnap the son of a successful businessman as he was trying to take control of one of Japan's great shoemaking conglomerates, however mistakenly they kidnapped the son of his driver instead.  Of course they too were poisoned by the mastermind of that plot in the end, though in that case it was a medical student rather than the leader of one of the worlds great countries.  

If Putin ends up making artisan shoes it will be exactly what happened however.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 20, 2018)

Supine said:


> Couple of days ago in Germany the news was reporting two new suspects have been identified from CCTV who originally had the bottle that was found.  Anyone heard about this? Seems strange it's not bigger in the news if true.


Until Julia appeared on TV with a very prominent surgery-scar I was inclined to think that the whole saga was not just `strange' but an obvious shaggy-dog story.


----------



## Looby (Jul 20, 2018)

This is nothing to do with the poisoning but I drive past Porton every week and there’s a big old burgundy American style trailer parked up on the grass at the side of the road. It’s always there and sometimes there’s a 4WD parked next to it.

I like to think there’s some grizzly conspiraloon living in it.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 20, 2018)

Supine said:


> Couple of days ago in Germany the news was reporting two new suspects have been identified from CCTV who originally had the bottle that was found.  Anyone heard about this? Seems strange it's not bigger in the news if true.


A story that originated separately with the Press Association and then CNN:


> Police have identified two suspects in the poisoning of former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN on Thursday.
> 
> The pair left the UK in the wake of the attack on what is believed to have been a commercial flight, the source added. Their departure was revealed in a coded Russian message to Moscow sent after the attack, which was intercepted by a British base in Cyprus, the source said. The British government blames the Skripals' poisoning on Russia.
> 
> The suspects were identified by UK police, who have been combing through months of surveillance camera footage from UK airports and from Salisbury, the town where the Skripals were poisoned on March 4. Using facial recognition technology, authorities discovered two "fresh identities" -- individuals not known to have been spies or used in other attacks -- the source added. Investigators cross-checked that information with the manifest of the flight on which the suspects were believed to have left Britain. They traveled under aliases, the source said. It is not clear whether the pair are Russian.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 22, 2018)

Sorry to ask, well not really except that all credibility will now be lost by me asking this.

Is there any credence to the claims about porton down? I've not really paid much attention to all this to be honest. 

For the record, I don't really have a problem believing the russians would murder a former Russian double agent on British soil and I recognise that lots of the people who think this was all some conspiracy theory (which seems to involve Porton Down), are also general conspiranauts/truther types anyway.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 22, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Sorry to ask, well not really except that all credibility will now be lost by me asking this.
> 
> Is there any credence to the claims about porton down? I've not really paid much attention to all this to be honest.
> 
> For the record, I don't really have a problem believing the russians would murder a former Russian double agent on British soil and I recognise that lots of the people who think this was all some conspiracy theory (which seems to involve Porton Down), are also general conspiranauts/truther types anyway.


I don't know but I would be prepared to bet my home on this being some sort of stupid accident rather than anything more complex. Occam's razor and all that....


----------



## Celyn (Jul 22, 2018)

Ah! But have you ever seen a photograph of Occam without a beard?


----------



## elbows (Jul 22, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Sorry to ask, well not really except that all credibility will now be lost by me asking this.
> 
> Is there any credence to the claims about porton down? I've not really paid much attention to all this to be honest.
> 
> For the record, I don't really have a problem believing the russians would murder a former Russian double agent on British soil and I recognise that lots of the people who think this was all some conspiracy theory (which seems to involve Porton Down), are also general conspiranauts/truther types anyway.



If we factor in the long history of Russian (and long before that, Soviet Union) counter propaganda and willingness to invent and exploit conspiracy theories in the west, it is possible to neatly combine the two into a single theory. ie it was a Russian hit (with good timing regarding Russian elections) but with a ready made 'alternative explanation' they could exploit (closeness of incident to Porton Down). Add in the number of countries who expelled Russian 'diplomats' (intelligence operatives) in the wake of it for additional signs the official UK story was believable to more than just the man on the street.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 25, 2018)

It's being reported in New Zealand now that Charlie Rowley found a "cosmetic bottle" that he thought was perfume in a "sealed box with a cellophane wrapper". He says he can't remember where he found it but it looked "genuine" and was a "product Dawn recognised". Curiouser and curiouser....

'I felt I was to blame': British Novichok victim gave partner poison bottle as a gift


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 25, 2018)

Good to see him recovered enough to do an interview, he describes the bottle at the start here...


----------



## Poi E (Jul 25, 2018)

"lethal nerve agent". Well clearly fucking not, you media morons.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 25, 2018)

Dawn Sturgess might disagree


----------



## Poi E (Jul 25, 2018)

Bit like lethal water. Have enough and it will kill you. Anyway, back to the bullshit.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 25, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Good to see him recovered enough to do an interview, he describes the bottle at the start here...




This is baffling and just leaves more unanswered questions.
Is he being controlled ? I just wonder if he's been told not to tell all to the media.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 25, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> I just wonder if he's been told not to tell all to the media.



I assume that's very likely, TBH.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 25, 2018)

The fact that he says he can't remember where he found it is a bit weird.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> The fact that he says he can't remember where he found it is a bit weird.


That might be one of those little bits of information the police like to keep to themselves to weed out any nutters or "I dunnit" loons that come out of the woodwork...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2018)

Poi E said:


> "lethal nerve agent". Well clearly fucking not, you media morons.



Someone is dead you know.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> The fact that he says he can't remember where he found it is a bit weird.



Almost as if nerve agents caused some kind of neurological damage.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 25, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Almost as if nerve agents caused some kind of neurological damage.


All right smartarse


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 25, 2018)

What is a bit disconcerting is the fact that the package was obviously designed to look like a branded perfume and it was in plastic wrap...so it had not been previously used or opened. Is there a question now that it may not have been discarded but left somewhere instead? 
Let's  hope there aren't more of these floating around.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> What is a bit disconcerting is the fact that the package was obviously designed to look like a branded perfume and it was in plastic wrap...so it had not been previously used or opened. Is there a question now that it may not have been discarded but left somewhere instead?
> Let's  hope there aren't more of these floating around.


I imagine that  whatever it was packaged as, police and other authorities will be treating anything similar with extreme suspicion.


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> What is a bit disconcerting is the fact that the package was obviously designed to look like a branded perfume and it was in plastic wrap...so it had not been previously used or opened. Is there a question now that it may not have been discarded but left somewhere instead?
> Let's  hope there aren't more of these floating around.



It may not be a factor in this case, I dont have enough info to go on, but keep in mind its pretty easy to shrink wrap stuff. All you need is the right sort of sleeve and the appropriate source of heat (which includes 'heat guns' that I dont know the proper name for).


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 25, 2018)

designed for import through normal airlines i would guess - would not need to be disguised if in diplo bag - shrink wrapping shows tampering / substitution actions at the border innit

shitty craft to leave a mint sample lying around though


----------



## 2hats (Jul 25, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> What is a bit disconcerting is the fact that the package was obviously designed to look like a branded perfume and it was in plastic wrap...so it had not been previously used or opened. Is there a question now that it may not have been discarded but left somewhere instead?
> Let's  hope there aren't more of these floating around.


Could be part of a prepared batch that were then discarded after one was used. Alternatively (though seems to be a risky approach in terms of handling and additional time the perpetrator has it in their possession) it was shrink wrapped after use to delay discovery.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 25, 2018)

2hats said:


> Could be part of a prepared batch that were then discarded after one was used. Alternatively (though seems to be a risky approach in terms of handling and additional time the perpetrator has it in their possession) it was shrink wrapped after use to delay discovery.


anyone know what the venue for the interview was?Safe house or his Housing Association property?


----------



## circleline (Jul 25, 2018)

Poor Charlie (and Dawn) 

Doesn't sound right that Charlie can remember an immaculately-sealed perfume package but no idea where he found it.  (Am not a purveyor of (exotic) (sic) perfume but, would that be right, that one has to assemble the nozzle in a new bottle of perfume before use?  Have no idea...) 



cupid_stunt said:


> Good to see him recovered enough to do an interview, he describes the bottle at the start here...


----------



## Poi E (Jul 25, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Someone is dead you know.



Haven't really been following it. Sad for the family of the deceased. Just thought it was some cocked up Russian hit where the delivery mechanism went astray. Security services so obsessed with Islamic attacks the place is probably filled Russkis


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 25, 2018)

Just watched the video to the end-not his pad


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 25, 2018)

circleline said:


> Poor Charlie (and Dawn)
> 
> Doesn't sound right that Charlie can remember an immaculately-sealed perfume package but no idea where he found it.  (Am not a purveyor of (exotic) (sic) perfume but, would that be right, that one has to assemble the nozzle in a new bottle of perfume before use?  Have no idea...)


No it is definitetly not normal to have to assemble a bottle of perfume.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 25, 2018)

sometimes it is - for mens stuff anyway - you take the top off and screw in the spray


----------



## kittyP (Jul 25, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> No it is definitetly not normal to have to assemble a bottle of perfume.



I have definitely had perfume before where it came with a screw on lid in place and the atomiser part separately in the box.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 25, 2018)

kittyP said:


> I have definitely had perfume before where it came with a screw on lid in place and the atomiser part separately in the box.


Oh. Well there you are. I didn't know that.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 25, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I imagine that  whatever it was packaged as, police and other authorities will be treating anything similar with extreme suspicion.


since the cops have got this bottle that Charlie is trying to describe and since its shocking that such a thing was, as he said, left lying around for children to pick up I would have thought it might be an idea to provide a photo so the good people of Wiltshire know what to avoid?? (Am probably missing something here I know}


----------



## 2hats (Jul 25, 2018)

The descriptions thus far (cellophane wrap, some assembly required) tend to suggest to me (as hinted at above) that there is other material out there in the environment that was used in the original attack (unlikely to have been removed by the original perpetrator(s) unless they had a clear exit route they could be sure of, in which case why leave the other material around).


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

Duncan2 said:


> since the cops have got this bottle that Charlie is trying to describe and since its shocking that such a thing was, as he said, left lying around for children to pick up I would have thought it might be an idea to provide a photo so the good people of Wiltshire know what to avoid?? (Am probably missing something here I know}


It is - as I think 2hats is alluding to - unlikely to be quite as clear-cut as that. It may be, for example, that there is a suspicion that similar, but different, packages may still be around. Sufficiently different that identifying exactly what this package was would be counterproductive, either because specificity would be pointless, but generality might cause undue panic and an excess of false positives.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 25, 2018)

existentialist said:


> It is - as I think 2hats is alluding to - unlikely to be quite as clear-cut as that. It may be, for example, that there is a suspicion that similar, but different, packages may still be around. Sufficiently different that identifying exactly what this package was would be counterproductive, either because specificity would be pointless, but generality might cause undue panic and an excess of false positives.



That's what I was thinking. 
If there are more boxes, they could be anywhere. Obviously the perpetrators didn't give a toss about potentially poisoning more people than the alleged targets. 
Frightening.


----------



## Supine (Jul 25, 2018)




----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 25, 2018)

Supine said:


> View attachment 142184


Nice one Supine.I guess this was an unbranded bottle of perfume ,origin uncertain, otherwise we would indeed have been informed.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 25, 2018)

2hats said:


> The descriptions thus far (cellophane wrap, some assembly required) tend to suggest to me (as hinted at above) that there is other material out there in the environment


...really? Why?

That this bottle was left around so to speak doesn't suggest to me that there are more?

What am I missing?

Assuming this was left over from the original attack...how many more do you think they would have needed 'just in case' ?


----------



## Looby (Jul 25, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> ...really? Why?
> 
> That this bottle was left around so to speak doesn't suggest to me that there are more?
> 
> ...


If it was sealed in plastic then that can’t have been from the original attack so the assumption I guess is, that there was more than one item to potentially use.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 25, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> 2hats said:
> 
> 
> > The descriptions thus far (cellophane wrap, some assembly required) tend to suggest to me (as hinted at above) that there is other material out there in the environment
> ...


For more information please reread.



…




EITHER:

(i) this is the original device/method of delivery and someone has gone to great trouble (and risk) to disassemble and reseal the materials used for such then casually disposed of them,

OR

(ii) this is not the original device but one of N (N>1), the description given suggesting it is unused (sealed, requires assembly) and thus implying that there is some other material out there (perhaps similar, perhaps not) that was used in the original assault since it would be as unlikely (or likely) for that material to have been removed from the vicinity of the crime scene as this particular bottle was (who is going to risk getting caught red handed with something that might kill you, at the very least incapacitate you and leave you vulnerable to coming to the attention of the very persons you are trying to evade?).

(OR (iii) the information given in the ITV interview is entirely/in part fabricated  ).


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 25, 2018)

I think it would be unlikely that if this was a state organised action, there would be only 1 sample  brought across the border into the UK - would be wasted excursion  if one got snarfed or damaged along the way. The seemingly careless disposal of the unused is odd though- I would not expect it to be taken back but then again not chucked into a park if unused. Its is either shit craft by whoever did it - and someone will be getting shit for this if this is the case - or praps left as a reminder for publicity - though this starting to get conspiraloony i know. That last thing you want for a suppsoed hi profile hit is randoms as unexpected collateral


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 26, 2018)

Or iv)  It’ll turn out to have belonged to the skripals, dropped when they were in a confused state, and the contamination is just on the outer packaging from the poisoned hand of the skripals handling it. 

(Bollocks, because it would have degraded).

Part of me is wondering whether the guy lifted it from somewhere/someone hence the ‘can’t remember’ where it came from. I’d hope the police are pointing out quite strongly that they wouldn’t be in any trouble for this given the greater priority of locating the source.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 26, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Or iv)  It’ll turn out to have belonged to the skripals, dropped when they were in a confused state, and the contamination is just on the outer packaging from the poisoned hand of the skripals handling it.
> 
> (Bollocks, because it would have degraded).
> 
> Part of me is wondering whether the guy lifted it from somewhere/someone hence the ‘can’t remember’ where it came from. I’d hope the police are pointing out quite strongly that they wouldn’t be in any trouble for this given the greater priority of locating the source.


I wondered that as well with the  can't remember bit. But if that is the case I wouldn't assume the story he tells the media  and the story he tells the cops are the same.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jul 26, 2018)

I doubt he’d be holding off on telling the police that he nicked it. It’s far more likely than he’s told them everything and they’ve briefed him not to say where it was found. This is beyond shoplifting from Boots.


----------



## Riklet (Jul 27, 2018)

Yeah they clearly dont want that bit to be too clear. His friend said he picked up stuff in parks, he says he doesnt remember, maybe the police have briefed him to keep that bit shtum and for all we know there may well be a third bottle out there. All this crap about 'deterioration' is clearly bullshit too - a sealed chemical nerve agent isnt going to go off in a few months, nor a few years.

Assuming these 2 suspects were 2 agents as mentioned in news reports, 2 samples would make sense. As well as a possible clean up kit or antidote one would imagine. Why this wasnt disposed of in a safe house or secure site seems very weird and suspicious though. How the heck can a whole bottle of nerve agent just be left lying around Salisbury by state actors? And how the hell did they not find it, during the first search and clean-up. Very very weird. Makes me think that the intelligence agencies were onto the plot and may have partly rumbled or disrupted it, leading to a hurried and dodgy clean-up and swift get away.

The (Russian) agents must have had a safe house in or near Salisbury though. Weapons money clothes documents chemical disposal. Would they really have left Britain directly from the scene of the crime?? Seems incredible.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 30, 2018)

Various stories seem to suggest that the police are indeed now working on the theory that there is still more of it out there in some form, left by an initial drop team for the hit team to pick up and execute the deed.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 30, 2018)

This whole business is feeling like a much more effective form of terrorism than the usual acts of violence. We are being told to be wary of everything in our environment - don't pick anything up - which I find scarier as the threat could literally be everywhere.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 30, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> This whole business is feeling like a much more effective form of terrorism than the usual acts of violence. We are being told to be wary of everything in our environment - don't pick anything up - which I find scarier as the threat could literally be everywhere.



It might help if they described the box and packaging / labels.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 30, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> It might help if they described the box and packaging / labels.



...which is one of the things that make it all sound bloody fishy to me


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 30, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> It might help if they described the box and packaging / labels.



...which is one of the things that make it all sound bloody fishy to me


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 30, 2018)

I think there's probably very good operational reasons why they don't release those details.

I also suspect they don't think anymore are likely to turn-up, considering how unlikely this bottle should have turned-up, but are just being over cautious to cover their arses.


----------



## Geri (Jul 30, 2018)

kittyP said:


> I have definitely had perfume before where it came with a screw on lid in place and the atomiser part separately in the box.


 
CK One does, I think that's because it can be used by men or women (men are more likely to splash it on like aftershave, women would spray it on their wrists.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 30, 2018)

Geri said:


> CK One does, I think that's because it can be used by men or women (men are more likely to splash it on like aftershave, women would spray it on their wrists.



Oh _THAT'S _why they always do that  I always wondered why they don't just put the atomiser on my CK1 - I just end up throwing the screw lid away.

I'm a man and I spray it on as aftershave anyway


----------



## dylanredefined (Jul 30, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Or iv)  It’ll turn out to have belonged to the skripals, dropped when they were in a confused state, and the contamination is just on the outer packaging from the poisoned hand of the skripals handling it.
> 
> (Bollocks, because it would have degraded).


Agents are classed as persistent or none persistent. None persistent evaporate quickly idea being you could drop them on the bad guys and then attack and your troops wouldn't need suits. Persistent hang around ideal for airfields etc.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jul 30, 2018)

In the Mirror link provided by 2hats it is claimed that the small bottle found at Charlie's could only have come from Russia.That suggests to me that the bottle and or its packaging was not the sort of thing commonly seen lying about Amesbury.I can't myself imagine what operational reason there could be for keeping quiet about its appearance and the potential benefit is obvious.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 30, 2018)

There was an interview in the i the other day with Seymour Hersh, who was suggesting the sloppiness of the Novichok disposal indicated the operation was carried out by some organised crime gang, rather than Russian intelligence (which presumably would have done a better job.) He thought Skripal might have been dishing dirt on Russian serious organised crime, rather than the state.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 21, 2018)

Charlie Rowley has been readmitted to hospital. 



> The novichok victim Charlie Rowley has been readmitted to hospital suffering with vision problems, his brother has claimed.
> 
> Rowley’s older brother, Matthew, claimed that Charlie had been “knocked sideways” by the development, which comes a month after he was discharged from Salisbury district hospital following treatment for the effects of the nerve agent poisoning.
> 
> The hospital said it could not speak about individual cases but stressed it was not treating anyone for the effects of novichok poisoning at the moment.



Novichok victim back in hospital with sight problems, says brother


----------



## 2hats (Sep 5, 2018)

PM to make a statement after questions in the house today. Reuters and BBC report that two Russian suspects have been identified and will be named.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 5, 2018)

Salisbury novichok attack: Police name two Russian suspects


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Salisbury novichok attack: Police name two Russian suspects


They certainly look the part:


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 5, 2018)

Not that it’ll convince the loons from upthread.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 5, 2018)

May has identified the two suspects as GRU agents.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2018)

if i was the mastermind behind the novichok attack i'd send my assassins out with kitchen knives or some proper poison like arsenic or cyanide in future. there can be few things more embarrassing than having this posh nerve agent which fails to kill your targets.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> if i was the mastermind behind the novichok attack i'd send my assassins out with kitchen knives or some proper poison like arsenic or cyanide in future. there can be few things more embarrassing than having this posh nerve agent which fails to kill your targets.


“Posh nerve agent”


----------



## gosub (Sep 5, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> May has identified the two suspects as GRU agents.


Same bunch as suspected for MH17.  If you read Viktor Suvorov 's Aquarium they have a very low opinion of the KGB that Putin was proudly an officer in.  I might suggested that he tries reigning them in, though I can't imagine that would be easy


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 5, 2018)

public transport used extensively. Perfect for slipping around the place but not so perfect in the Most cctv’d country on earth.of course it would have been far more difficult if the suspects had used supplied private cars and were not seen together apart from the at moment of the meet & then split in different directions 

Either very sloppy or perfectly managed for the best result and to provide a post action bogeyman press

It is possible to use non Known GRU or FSB employees / contractors on a one off basis, given that everyone knows most of each other’s employees these days 

Hmmm


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> “Posh nerve agent”


it's not any nerve agent, it's an fsb nerve agent


----------



## rekil (Sep 5, 2018)

_They're mossad agents wearing clever facial prosthetics similar to the ones used by the Borat guy who also happens to be a joo. #joiningthedots #justaskingquestions #falseflaaaaaaaaag_

5k retweets


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 5, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> May has identified the two suspects as GRU agents.



The following photgraph has been released:


----------



## gosub (Sep 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> it's not any nerve agent, it's an fsb nerve agent


That it's military grade kit will have been one of the pointers to GRU, that and Salisbury being fucking miles from being inside Russia being an indicator it wasn't FSB


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2018)

if we're paying undue attention to detail on this thread...





gosub said:


> Same bunch as suspected for MH17.  If you read Viktor Suvorov 's Aquarium they have a very low opinion of the KGB that Putin was proudly an officer in.  I might suggested that he tries reigning them in, though I can't imagine that would be easy


putin might find it easier to rein them in


----------



## gosub (Sep 5, 2018)

copliker said:


> _They're mossad agents wearing clever facial prosthetics similar to the ones used by the Borat guy who also happens to be a joo. #joiningthedots #justaskingquestions #falseflaaaaaaaaag_
> 
> 5k retweets


It's the 5k retweets that makes that depressing. In real life Netanyahu and Putin are getting on quite well



Was good of the Chinese to turn up at Parliament.... The US? - has it reduced everything to 'there's a tweet for that!', a bit more effort would have been nice, especially after Helsinki


----------



## gosub (Sep 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> if we're paying undue attention to detail on this thread...
> putin might find it easier to rein them in


I take no responsibility.  Wasn't sure so asked my ex fleet street Mum, it was her call.  In her defence, she is terminally ill, which should save the grammar Nazis a trip


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2018)

gosub said:


> I take no responsibility.  Wasn't sure so asked my ex fleet street Mum it was her call.  In her defence, she is terminally ill, which should save the grammar Nazis a trip


it's easy to recall, horses are faster than monarchs and it is quicker to type rein than reign.

sorry to hear about your mum, btw.


----------



## Dan U (Sep 5, 2018)

Check out @ByTomWells’s Tweet:


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> if i was the mastermind behind the novichok attack i'd send my assassins out with kitchen knives or some proper poison like arsenic or cyanide in future. there can be few things more embarrassing than having this posh nerve agent which fails to kill your targets.


They wouldn't need to smuggle kitchen knives into the country either, they could just buy them here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> They wouldn't need to smuggle kitchen knives into the country either, they could just buy them here.


Thus putting money into the local economy


----------



## teqniq (Sep 5, 2018)




----------



## planetgeli (Sep 5, 2018)

Nice to see Craig inventing new definitions of 'scraping the barrel'.

Is he pissed?


----------



## kebabking (Sep 5, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Nice to see Craig inventing new definitions of 'scraping the barrel'.
> 
> Is he pissed?



Why change the habit of a lifetime?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 5, 2018)

maybe issuing visa to known spies is a bad idea, i dunno


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 5, 2018)

How the UK knows the Russian GRU carried out the Skripal assassination attempt


----------



## rekil (Sep 5, 2018)

Halfhearted stuff from the crankosphere tbh. Gatwick cctv timestamps is the best they can muster thus far.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 5, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> maybe issuing visa to known spies is a bad idea, i dunno



They were travelling under false names with false passports, so visas weren't issued to 'known spies'.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 5, 2018)

already the twitterbox has theories, the conspiracy left twat sort. Same guy who was boosting the 'bring back galloway' cause not so long ago What is wrong with people.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Sep 5, 2018)

Murray now backing off after realising clearer versions of photos of suspects were available - has made himself look a (useful?) idiot once again. It is also being suggested that same time stamp on airport pictures is likely due to being from two cameras, rather than obvious conspiracy evidence as the loons were getting excited about.....


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Sep 5, 2018)

More desperate Twitter Putin apologists now suggesting, OK, maybe these were Russians and GRU, but must be some part of a plot against Putin or “freelance”.  In which case we can expect to see Russia handing them over to the UK authorities or putting them on trial, no? Don’t hold your breath.....


----------



## existentialist (Sep 5, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> public transport used extensively. Perfect for slipping around the place but not so perfect in the Most cctv’d country on earth.of course it would have been far more difficult if the suspects had used supplied private cars and were not seen together apart from the at moment of the meet & then split in different directions
> 
> Either very sloppy or perfectly managed for the best result and to provide a post action bogeyman press
> 
> ...


Depends how badly you don't want everyone to know that it's your people doing it .

And my perception, which is TBF probably based more on Frederick Forsyth books than anything (or is it ) is that GRU get used for the wet stuff, while FSB do the more polite business.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> it's not any nerve agent, it's an fsb nerve agent


Because You're Worth It.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 5, 2018)

kebabking said:


> Why change the habit of a lifetime?


That's why I tell myself every time I reach for the cheap brandy, too


----------



## Duncan2 (Sep 5, 2018)

Expert on c4 news was worrying about the cleaners who must have been over the room at the City Stay Hotel quite a few times between 4th March and 4th May when the room the GRU bods used was found still to be contaminated with Novichok.The whole thing seems to have been a complete shit-show.Wouldn't be surprised if they get packed off to the salt-mines.


----------



## Humberto (Sep 5, 2018)

The problem is they (UK govt/establishment) don't look like there is anything they can really do. OK they sanction, but their heart isn't really in it. They could seize assets, damage businesses. Is this even happening? What happens the next time?

Stick to your guns. What is a proportional response to this? To the murder of British citizens on British soil by a foreign governmental agency? I would say quite severe. Its cold war. Make Russian oligarchs pay. Seize their shit, ruin their business interests; even then the moral high ground is still theirs (UK G). They won't though.

Polonium, nerve agents: Russian billionaires buying up property and assets. I think I see an obvious course of action. So why would that not happen? Because Britain is just a backwater shithole where sinister billionaires (they all are) come to launder money. That its just some playground theme park for the wealthy, and run that way while the country itself, its people, are led through managed decline?

I'm not saying its too late. I'm asking where is the concrete action, i.e. action that would have real consequences? And why is it not happening beyond censure, diplomats expelled? This is an affront, yet they cannot see the damage they are doing by failing to act beyond what amounts to token gestures of disapproval.

I don't know, maybe opposition MPs and officials have sinecures with Russia Today, or have been spoken to with the old golden handshake or cement overcoat offer. I'd honestly be surprised if it was otherwise, so make of that what you will. The thing is, without principle and consequences for actions we are just drifting, rudderless. Managed decline for the takeover of ultracapitalism (can't come up with a better word).

So I see this as an important crossroads. They need to act, as toughly as possible. Which is difficult because the use of these weapons on our soil goes beyond rivalry, provocation or spy games. The correct response I believe, although not proportionate, is the one I have described.


----------



## A380 (Sep 5, 2018)

I’m always impressed that some bloke sitting in his mum’s spare room eating cold pizza in his pants thinks that in a couple of hours he can do better than a police and security service investigation over months carried out by a police and security service that he also imagines has far more capabilities and competence than the ones that actually exist.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 5, 2018)

A380 said:


> I’m always impressed that some bloke sitting in his mum’s spare room eating cold pizza in his pants thinks that in a couple of hours he can do better than a police and security service investigation over months carried out by a police and security service that he also imagines has far more capabilities and competence than the ones that actually exist.


TBF, I had actually warmed the pizza up in the microwave 

People can be so judgemental sometimes. And I don't think there's anything wrong with M&S slips as leisurewear.


----------



## A380 (Sep 5, 2018)

existentialist said:


> TBF, I had actually warmed the pizza up in the microwave
> 
> People can be so judgemental sometimes. And I don't think there's anything wrong with M&S slips as leisurewear.


You do know that the CIA can control your microwave from Langley don’t you?


----------



## existentialist (Sep 5, 2018)

A380 said:


> You do know that the CIA can control your microwave from Langley don’t you?


I rely on it. It's the only way I can be sure my dinner is warm by the time I get home.


----------



## gosub (Sep 5, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> maybe issuing visa to known spies is a bad idea, i dunno


One way of cutting the queues at Disna World I suppose


----------



## gosub (Sep 5, 2018)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> More desperate Twitter Putin apologists now suggesting, OK, maybe these were Russians and GRU, but must be some part of a plot against Putin or “freelance”.  In which case we can expect to see Russia handing them over to the UK authorities or putting them on trial, no? Don’t hold your breath.....






/Dark mood


----------



## tim (Sep 5, 2018)

Duncan2 said:


> Expert on c4 news was worrying about the cleaners who must have been over the room at the City Stay Hotel quite a few times between 4th March and 4th May when the room the GRU bods used was found still to be contaminated with Novichok.The whole thing seems to have been a complete shit-show.Wouldn't be surprised if they get packed off to the salt-mines.




Spies always look after their own, however inept 

Alain Mafart - Wikipedia

And remember David Cameron's comnents after renaging on his promise to bring those responsible for Pat Finucane's murder to justice: "[there are] people in buildings all around here who won’t let it happen".[12]
Pat Finucane - Wikipedia


----------



## rekil (Sep 6, 2018)

One sherloon observed a discrepancy, declaring that one of the men was noticeably 'thinner' in one pic than in the other, and his hair also looked different. 

In one pic, he's wearing a padded coat and hat, and in the other....he's not....


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2018)

tim said:


> Spies always look after their own, however inept


like when kim philby passed the names of british spies to the soviets.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2018)

put flowers on volkov's grave for me


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 6, 2018)

.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> .



Good point.


----------



## tim (Sep 6, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> like when kim philby passed the names of british spies to the soviets.



He was treated like a gentleman by both his British and Soviet employers, which was why the former gave him the benefit of the doubt for so long.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 6, 2018)

Russians probably didn't care if they got cctv'd as long as they got away a lot of those hits are meant to send a message


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 6, 2018)

If we had followed Jezzas suggestion of sending the novichok to the Russians and asking them if it was theirs we would have known long ago.


----------



## A380 (Sep 6, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> If we had followed Jezzas suggestion of sending the novichok to the Russians and asking them if it was theirs we would have known long ago.


I bet both C and the Asistant Commissioner commanding the Counter Terrorism Network are slapping their foreheads and going ‘doh, why didn’t we think of that’ right now.


----------



## AnandLeo (Sep 7, 2018)

Britain’s reaction to the Salisbury poisonings plays into Putin’s hands | Simon Jenkins
I like the theme of this article, and make me reasonably at ease with the diplomatic conflict involved in the impasse. 
I am posting the message on this board instead of Tweeting, because I feel I am addressing a local community, and not a broad international community.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 7, 2018)

AnandLeo said:


> Britain’s reaction to the Salisbury poisonings plays into Putin’s hands | Simon Jenkins
> I like the theme of this article, and make me reasonably at ease with the diplomatic conflict involved in the impasse.
> I am posting the message on this board instead of Tweeting, because I feel I am addressing a local community, and not a broad international community.



 Anyone who uses existential threat in an article these days should be despatched to stromness whaling station to assist in the clean up


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 7, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> If we had followed Jezzas suggestion of sending the novichok to the Russians and asking them if it was theirs we would have known long ago.



No reason to think the Russians would lie about it I suppose.


----------



## AnandLeo (Sep 12, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> Anyone who uses existential threat in an article these days should be despatched to stromness whaling station to assist in the clean up


Existential threat: the birth of a cliché | The Spectator


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 13, 2018)

It's all sorted. These lads were just a couple of tourists visiting Salisbury Cathedral apparently.

Fly into the UK in the morning, get a train to Salisbury, have a nose around the cathedral, train to Heathrow and a flight home again that night.

Boom! Happens all the time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It's all sorted. These lads were just a couple of tourists visiting Salisbury Cathedral apparently.
> 
> Fly into the UK in the morning, get a train to Salisbury, have a nose around the cathedral, train back to Heathrow and a flight home again that night.
> 
> Boom! Happens all the time.


everyone else does it, spy, i don't know why you don't.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 13, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> everyone else does it, spy, i don't know why you don't.


I've got a car.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> I've got a car.


yeh you spunked all your dosh on a new bmw neuechuk


----------



## gosub (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It's all sorted. These lads were just a couple of tourists visiting Salisbury Cathedral apparently.
> 
> Fly into the UK in the morning, get a train to Salisbury, have a nose around the cathedral, train to Heathrow and a flight home again that night.
> 
> Boom! Happens all the time.



Good advert for Salisbury that they thought it was worth 2 day trips.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

gosub said:


> Good advert for Salisbury that they thought it was worth 2 day trips.


they missed sir edward heath house


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2018)

UK govt. should appologise forthwith and offer a free holiday back to the UK. If they love their holidays so much they'll be on the next plane over. No?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2018)

Good job they didn’t plan it for after the poisoning else they might have been frightened off and had to settle for boring Westminster Abbey.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It's all sorted. These lads were just a couple of tourists visiting Salisbury Cathedral apparently.
> 
> Fly into the UK in the morning, get a train to Salisbury, have a nose around the cathedral, train to Heathrow and a flight home again that night.
> 
> Boom! Happens all the time.



It's fucking ridiculous, no explanation as to why they travelled from London to Salisbury on both on March 3rd & 4th, nor why traces of novichok  were found in their hotel room, the Russians are laughing in our faces, the cunts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Good job they didn’t plan it for after the poisoning else they might have been frightened off and had to settle for boring Westminster Abbey.


boring and fucking dear


----------



## Dan U (Sep 13, 2018)

apparently they went to Salisbury the first day to check timetables and then came back the next day presumably to execute those timetables.

I like that they've been able to google Old Sarum etc. but not train and bus timetables.

extremely credible.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 13, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> UK govt. should appologise forthwith and offer a free holiday back to the UK. If they love their holidays so much they'll be on the next plane over. No?



Good idea, a week at Pontins would teach them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's fucking ridiculous, no explanation as to why they travelled from London to Salisbury on both on March 3rd & 4th, nor why traces of novichok  were found in their hotel room, the Russians are laughing in our faces, the cunts.


we all laugh in theresa may's face, why should the russians be different?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It's all sorted. These lads were just a couple of tourists visiting Salisbury Cathedral apparently.
> 
> Fly into the UK in the morning, get a train to Salisbury, have a nose around the cathedral, train to Heathrow and a flight home again that night.
> 
> Boom! Happens all the time.



tbf I'd have been on next train/plane out too, Salisbury was soaked in Novichok, that shit can be dangerous.


----------



## Combustible (Sep 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's fucking ridiculous, no explanation as to why they travelled from London to Salisbury on both on March 3rd & 4th,



Sure there was, how else could they check the train timetable


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 13, 2018)

I have touched on this before- these were not unknown ( yes I know about passports) and there is hell on with the  visa approval situation after this.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 13, 2018)

A bus replace service could have scuppered this operation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> I have touched on this before- these were not unknown ( yes I know about passports) and there is hell on with the  visa approval situation after this.


when i was in russia this summer russians i spoke to told me that the reason there's such a shitty visa application form to their country is because the uk imposed exactly the same thing on them first - so where you've been for the last ten years with exact dates, details of your parents, jobs you've done, have you ever worked in local government etc...

glad i went to russia this year because fuck knows what the visa situation will be like next summer.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 13, 2018)

Biometrics

This is the reason why Russian state employees can operate freely here but our lot are pretty much banned from visiting Russia for any purpose these days


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 13, 2018)

> But Boshirov also admitted they may have stumbled upon the former spy's suburban home - half an hour's walk from the station and away from the city centre - but only by accident.



Surely even the conspiraloons are not going to swallow that bullshit.


----------



## Dan U (Sep 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Surely even the conspiraloons are not going to swallow that bullshit.



I'm sure several ranty YouTube videos are being prepared in various basements right now explaining why this is perfectly normal


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 13, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> when i was in russia this summer russians i spoke to told me that the reason there's such a shitty visa application form to their country is because the uk imposed exactly the same thing on them first - so where you've been for the last ten years with exact dates, details of your parents, jobs you've done, have you ever worked in local government etc...
> 
> glad i went to russia this year because fuck knows what the visa situation will be like next summer.


 

Tit for tat - nightmare getting s Nigerian VISA these days.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 13, 2018)

I am currently reading a buke on the soviets position  in the Berlin airlift period - Putin seems to have learned his craft from Molotov and zhukov


----------



## gosub (Sep 13, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> I have touched on this before- these were not unknown ( yes I know about passports) and there is hell on with the  visa approval situation after this.



 Bastard's probably weren't entirely honest in the Reason for visit section


----------



## gosub (Sep 13, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> A bus replace service could have scuppered this operation.




I will be very fucked off if SWT start citing 'national security' as a justification for running a piss poor approximation of a train service


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It's all sorted. These lads were just a couple of tourists visiting Salisbury Cathedral apparently.
> 
> Fly into the UK in the morning, get a train to Salisbury, have a nose around the cathedral, train to Heathrow and a flight home again that night.
> 
> Boom! Happens all the time.



Decent lads.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Sep 13, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> Decent lads.



RT Journo didn't even ask for a look at their brass rubbings


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It's all sorted. These lads were just a couple of tourists visiting Salisbury Cathedral apparently.
> 
> Fly into the UK in the morning, get a train to Salisbury, have a nose around the cathedral, train to Heathrow and a flight home again that night.
> 
> Boom! Happens all the time.


Did you see this one?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> RT Journo didn't even ask for a look at their brass rubbings



Exactly.

This is perfectly normal. Only last Wednesday I took a day-trip to Saint Petersburg to see the famous Kazan Cathedral. Kazan Cathedral or Kazanskiy Kafedralniy Sobor (Russian: Каза́нский кафедра́льный собо́р), also known as the Cathedral of Our Lady of Kazan, is a cathedral of the Russian Orthodox Church on the Nevsky Prospekt in Saint Petersburg. It is dedicated to Our Lady of Kazan, probably the most venerated icon in Russia.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2018)

Just read the transcript, the reason they had to return the next day was that the 1/2" of snow was too much for the two chaps from Siberia to battle through. Sounds legit.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 13, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Just read the transcript, the reason they had to return the next day was that the 1/2" of snow was too much for the two chaps from Siberia to battle through. Sounds legit.


 Fucking hell.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It's all sorted. These lads were just a couple of tourists visiting Salisbury Cathedral apparently.
> 
> Fly into the UK in the morning, get a train to Salisbury, have a nose around the cathedral, train to Heathrow and a flight home again that night.
> 
> Boom! Happens all the time.


True. I myself carried out a flying visit to Sarajevo in June 1914...


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 13, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Just read the transcript, the reason they had to return the next day was that the 1/2" of snow was too much for the two chaps from Siberia to battle through. Sounds legit.



Snow fucked napoleon, south eastern trains and hitler as well, these lads are in great company


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Sep 13, 2018)

Salisbury novichok suspects say they were only visiting cathedral

Hahahahaha they’re not even trying to come up with a credible story or deny it... they’re just having a bloody good laugh at our expense. Where are the conspiraloons now?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 13, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> SWhere are the conspiraloons now?


----------



## Wilf (Sep 13, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> Snow fucked napoleon, south eastern trains and hitler as well, these lads are in great company


The 1812 Overture was Tchaikovsky's celebration of the defence of the Russian Fatherland. Perhaps a contemporary version would be for Ed Sheeran to pen a ditty on the slightly inclement weather postponing the invasion of Salisbury.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> the Russians are laughing in our faces,






cupid_stunt said:


> Surely even the conspiraloons are not going to swallow that bullshit.







fakeplasticgirl said:


> Salisbury novichok suspects say they were only visiting cathedral
> 
> Hahahahaha they’re not even trying to come up with a credible story or deny it... they’re just having a bloody good laugh at our expense. Where are the conspiraloons now?



Déjà vu

You never see fpg and cupid in the same room


----------



## Wilf (Sep 13, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Salisbury novichok suspects say they were only visiting cathedral
> 
> Hahahahaha they’re not even trying to come up with a credible story or deny it... they’re just having a bloody good laugh at our expense. Where are the conspiraloons now?


Lee Harvey Oswald only needed to mention the tour of Southern book depositories he was undertaking. He'd be a free man to this day.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 13, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Déjà vu
> 
> You never see fpg and cupid in the same room



Only when the Matrix malfunctions.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 13, 2018)

Raoul Moat: 'but I was only meeting Gazza for a spot of fishing and a chicken dinner'.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Sep 13, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


>



 hahahahah


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Sep 13, 2018)

Just had a quick look at the daily fail comments (urgh) - even the ‘loons have gone quiet there!

Putin’s having a laugh. He’s having a bloody good laugh.


----------



## rekil (Sep 13, 2018)

Parts of the loonosphere still struggling to get on the same page as Galloway/Murray.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 13, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Salisbury novichok suspects say they were only visiting cathedral
> 
> Hahahahaha they’re not even trying to come up with a credible story or deny it... they’re just having a bloody good laugh at our expense. Where are the conspiraloons now?


To be fair there isn't much point in putting any effort into a story, no-one will believe it anyway and they're never going to have to defend it in court.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Sep 13, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> To be fair there isn't much point in putting any effort into a story, no-one will believe it anyway and they're never going to have to defend it in court.


Quite a lot of people seemed to think the whole thing has been engineered by mi5 to frame Russia.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 13, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Quite a lot of people seemed to think it was mi5.



No, only a handful of fucking weirdos do.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Just had a quick look at the daily fail comments (urgh) - even the ‘loons have gone quiet there!
> 
> Putin’s having a laugh. He’s having a bloody good laugh.



As am I to be fair.  I know its serious business but they way the Russians are styling it out is brilliant.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Sep 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> No, only a handful of fucking weirdos do.


It seemed like a lot of them posted on here then.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Sep 13, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> As am I to be fair.  I know its serious business but they way the Russians are styling it out is brilliant.


If somebody hadn’t died it would be very funny.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 13, 2018)

The fella on the left in the interview who bangs on about the height of the spire looks _SO_ pissed off. He’s thinking _“nobody_ _is going to believe this shit_. _I’ve been ordered to make a complete cunt of myself on international tv”_.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> If somebody hadn’t died it would be very funny.



Nah its still funny.  At the heart of it there is a tragedy and a pretty outrageous act but that doesn't make the Russian response any less funny.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Sep 13, 2018)

I 


Teaboy said:


> Nah its still funny.  At the heart of it there is a tragedy and a pretty outrageous act but that doesn't make the Russian response any less funny.



I do genuinely think putin is taking the piss.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Sep 13, 2018)

Pushing the gay angle is a bit "wtf"...


----------



## Wilf (Sep 13, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> I
> 
> 
> I do genuinely think putin is taking the piss.


Next he'll be advising Russian fans of English cathedral architecture not to visit due to the risk of being fitted up.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> I
> 
> 
> I do genuinely think putin is taking the piss.



Yes, so do I.  He does it a lot.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2018)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Pushing the gay angle is a bit "wtf"...



It's genius. "Look at how intolerant the west is towards homosexuals, they try to fit them up with murder!"



Unlike wonderful motherland Russia, which just encourages the homosexuals to be murdered


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Yes, so do I.  He does it a lot.



He's the Millwall of world leaders.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2018)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Pushing the gay angle is a bit "wtf"...



This bit especially...


> Simonyan later tweeted: “I don’t know if they’re gay or not gay. They’re so stylish, as far as I could tell – with their beards and haircuts, tight pants.
> 
> “They didn’t come on to me,” she added.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Sep 13, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It's genius. "Look at how intolerant the west is towards homosexuals, they try to fit them up with murder!"
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike wonderful motherland Russia, which just encourages the homosexuals to be murdered



The way they're doing it, though - commenting on how well presented they are, how they didn't harass the interviewer woman (who admits that, at 38, she is passed harassable), having a poll on some russian news website asking if they're "gays made out to be agents, or agents made out to be gays?" - just


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 13, 2018)

It’s gone to full on comedy now.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It’s gone to full on comedy now.



I'm waiting for them to produce A Lonely Planet guide to the UK as definitive proof that they were just on holiday.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

Its a crying shame they didn't end up on a replacement bus service.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 13, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> A bus replace service could have scuppered this operation.





Teaboy said:


> Its a crying shame they didn't end up on a replacement bus service.



Déjà vu again.

Has the Matrix been hacked by the Russians?


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Déjà vu again.
> 
> Has the Matrix been hacked by the Russians?



I was merely reiterating how disappointing it was.  That OK with you pogo?


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Salisbury novichok suspects say they were only visiting cathedral
> 
> Hahahahaha they’re not even trying to come up with a credible story or deny it... they’re just having a bloody good laugh at our expense. Where are the conspiraloons now?


That really is a wafer thin story. Russia is taking the piss.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2018)

I love how nonchalant they were while waxing lyrical about the 'famous' cathedral. "Famous for its 123m spire" And the "wonderful" town their friends had been "suggesting for a long time".

Straight out of Wikipedia. Patridge-esque even.


> "Blicklington Hall was built by Sir Henry Hobart. The Jacobean house is built on the site of a late medieval predecessor....."


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 13, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> As am I to be fair.  I know its serious business but they way the Russians are styling it out is brilliant.



I'll laugh when the British state starts freezing the looted assets of Putin's chums and not a moment before.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 13, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'll laugh when the British state starts freezing the looted assets of Putin's chums and not a moment before.


You just know that ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 13, 2018)

Dan U said:


> apparently they went to Salisbury the first day to check timetables and then came back the next day presumably to execute those timetables.
> 
> I like that they've been able to google Old Sarum etc. *but not train and bus timetables.*
> 
> extremely credible.



As a man reliant on British buses and to a lesser extent trains, I can fully understand this.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> It’s gone to full on comedy now.


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 13, 2018)

It's straight up post-truth politics isnt it. The theatre of the absurd for the modern day. It's deliberate. Obfuscate the fuck out of everything. Smileys are all that's left.

Maybe even George Smileys.

Ridiculous. But deliberate. 'There is no truth. Just this shit.'


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 13, 2018)

teqniq said:


> You just know that ain't gonna happen.



Kill the goose that shits the golden eggs? Of course not.


----------



## keybored (Sep 13, 2018)

Looks like our intrepid tourists might have returned home with some leftover "duty-free perfume".

Pussy Riot activist 'possibly poisoned'


----------



## circleline (Sep 13, 2018)

Tourists?  Was waiting for a mere mention of Stonehenge. 




keybored said:


> Looks like our intrepid tourists might have returned home with some leftover "duty-free perfume".
> 
> Pussy Riot activist 'possibly poisoned'



Also, bit sad about the perfume.  My brother bought me Nina Ricci for a present one year; only perfume have ever really liked   Thanks, Putin *bloody angry now* 

Poor Dawn..


----------



## gosub (Sep 13, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'll laugh when the British state starts freezing the looted assets of Putin's chums and not a moment before.



I do quite like that the 2 spooks appear on Russian State Media  and give an explanation to that really takes the piss to which British State Media then devotes a couple of minutes showing the best tweets of taking the piss back.....Would be very different (not for the better - if it had happened in the States), but I agree with you in the main


----------



## Peter Chadwick (Sep 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Surely even the conspiraloons are not going to swallow that bullshit.


Isn't this Craig Murray guy a number one conspiracy theorist ? Maybe the interview with these ruskies is fake, they are just stooges for mi5 ?


----------



## existentialist (Sep 13, 2018)

Peter Chadwick said:


> Isn't this Craig Murray guy a number one conspiracy theorist ? Maybe the interview with these ruskies is fake, they are just stooges for mi5 ?


You know who maintains the conspiracy theorist rankings, don't you? Just saying...


----------



## Duncan2 (Sep 13, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> The fella on the left in the interview who bangs on about the height of the spire looks _SO_ pissed off. He’s thinking “no body is going to believe this shit. I’ve been ordered to make a complete cunt of myself on international tv”.


Absolutely-that guy-the picture of a man bereft of sleep-but what is it that is keeping him awake at night-the thought that the world will know him as an assassin or the thought that the internet has found him and his mate not to be the straight guys they claim to be??


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 13, 2018)

Presumably there will be some nice CCTV footage confirming these guys had gone to visit the cathedral, right?  Assume the place has cameras.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Presumably there will be some nice CCTV footage confirming these guys had gone to visit the cathedral, right?  Assume the place has cameras.


I thought they were implausibly turned back by the half centimeter of snow


----------



## Duncan2 (Sep 13, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought they were implausibly turned back by the half centimeter of snow


Suppose if that's what they are saying it would explain why the RT woman didn't ask them whether it lived up to its international reputation.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 13, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Presumably there will be some nice CCTV footage confirming these guys had gone to visit the cathedral, right?  Assume the place has cameras.


We'll have no cameras in churches. God sees _everything_.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 13, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Presumably there will be some nice CCTV footage confirming these guys had gone to visit the cathedral, right?  Assume the place has cameras.


Maybe they were so overcome by the cathedral that snogging took place?


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

Back in the day failed assassins might have expected the salt mine or the gulag, these days its being humiliated on international TV as you try to recite Wikipedia 'facts'.  I don't know which is crueler.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

Duncan2 said:


> Absolutely-that guy-the picture of a man bereft of sleep-but what is it that is keeping him awake at night-the thought that the world will know him as an assassin or the thought that the internet has found him and his mate not to be the straight guys they claim to be??



Nah its almost certainly the realisation that if they'd stayed just one more day they could have nipped over to Portsmouth for Gunwharf.  Missing that once in a lifetime opportunity would certainly keep me awake at night.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 13, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought they were implausibly turned back by the half centimeter of snow



So they headed straight back to siberia.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 13, 2018)

piss taking aside, this is a fucking awful situation at the very least for the people affected by the attack. Those two twats will be be lauded at GRU HQ- not sure what they will do for a job but it will be for life. maybe shorter than they expected given the defenestration craze currently in vogue in Russia


----------



## 8115 (Sep 13, 2018)

Yeah exactly. This is fucking funny but at the end of the day one person died and three others may have lasting health issues.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 14, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> piss taking aside, this is a fucking awful situation at the very least for the people affected by the attack. Those two twats will be be lauded at GRU HQ- not sure what they will do for a job but it will be for life. maybe shorter than they expected given the defenestration craze currently in vogue in Russia



Didn't they fuck up? I would expect a bullet in the back of the head and a final resting place in a ditch for the pair of them.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2018)

If I was Alex or Ruslan I'd be shitting my pants right now.

They're gonna go missing. One will die in a car crash and the other will have a heart attack or _jump off a balcony._


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Sep 14, 2018)

Did they really fuck up?  You can hardly come to Britain and not get captured on CCTV.  It's just not possible.  The two Brits that got poisoned, obviously an unintended consequence, but not their fault that the guy went dumpster diving.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 14, 2018)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Did they really fuck up?  You can hardly come to Britain and not get captured on CCTV.  It's just not possible.  The two Brits that got poisoned, obviously an unintended consequence, but not their fault that the guy went dumpster diving.



They didn't kill the intended target, and left the novichok laying around in a public garden to be picked-up months later, resulting in an innocent person's death. If they had even put it in a bin or dumpster it would have ended up in a landfill site within a week or two at most.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 14, 2018)

So now we know. The UK is easily infiltrated by really shit Russian agents. Our security services are poop.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 14, 2018)

Poi E said:


> So now we know. The UK is easily infiltrated by really shit Russian agents. Our security services are poop.



its always been like this, way back to the dude with the ricin pellet in the umbrella. Its probably like a inter-service tradition now. With trophies.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Sep 14, 2018)

Out of interest, how is the official UK government (and the UK papers) line that "they obviously did it" not in direct contradiction to the old "innocent until proven guilty" rule?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 14, 2018)

I think the standard of proof for a court is beyond reasonable doubt whereas the court of public opinion requires merely balance of probabilities


----------



## killer b (Sep 14, 2018)

I understand Craig Murray has no credibility left with anyone but fucking nutters, but surely even the nutters won't find his latest theory credible?


----------



## killer b (Sep 14, 2018)

'most likely' is doing a lot of work there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2018)

yeh they're in the gay russian union


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 14, 2018)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Out of interest, how is the official UK government (and the UK papers) line that "they obviously did it" not in direct contradiction to the old "innocent until proven guilty" rule?



Well I'm sure they'll get a trial should they show up back here and hand themselves in at Charing Cross nick. 

And tbf we invaded an entire country on the back of far shoddier intel than this.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 14, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> its always been like this, way back to the dude with the ricin pellet in the umbrella. Its probably like a inter-service tradition now. With trophies.




London is the new Berlin or Lebanon when it comes to the espionage marketplace

Not taking the piss either


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well I'm sure they'll get a trial should they show up back here and hand themselves in at Charing Cross nick.
> 
> And tbf we invaded an entire country on the back of far shoddier intel than this.


it wasn't intel, it was a load of auld shite


----------



## rekil (Sep 14, 2018)

killer b said:


> I understand Craig Murray has no credibility left with anyone but fucking nutters, but surely even the nutters won't find his latest theory credible?


He's following the RT head's lead. She started that 'maybe they're gay, tight sweaters, beards, haha' stuff.

e2a: here



Spoiler








24/7 loons won't bat an eyelid at this kind of thing.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2018)

killer b said:


> I understand Craig Murray has no credibility left with anyone but fucking nutters, but surely even the nutters won't find his latest theory credible?


 Well Dexter has certainly gone quiet.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 14, 2018)

killer b said:


> I understand Craig Murray has no credibility left with anyone but fucking nutters, but surely even the nutters won't find his latest theory credible?



Hadn't realised there was much of an illegal steroid trade in the close of Salisbury Cathedral.


----------



## andysays (Sep 14, 2018)

There's no reason why they can't be a gay couple flogging steroids AND a slightly inept Russian hit team, is there?

There appears to be no actual evidence in the public domain of anything more sinister than being in Salisbury at the right time while being of Russian origin.

I agree that Putin is taking the piss, but the British authorities are making it easy for him. Why identify these two guys unless they have some more damning evidence to make public?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2018)

This, i suspect, had more to do with Russian/Regime chemical attacks on civilians in Syria than Salisbury:

Dutch expelled Russians over alleged novichok laboratory hacking plot



> The Swiss daily newspaper, Tages-Anzeiger, reported that the men were carrying equipment that could be used to break into the Spiez laboratory’s IT network when they were seized.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 14, 2018)

andysays said:


> There's no reason why they can't be a gay couple flogging steroids AND a slightly inept Russian hit team, is there?
> 
> There appears to be no actual evidence in the public domain of anything more sinister than by in Salisbury at the right time while being of Russian origin.
> 
> I agree that Putin is taking the kids, but the British authorities are making it easy for him. Why identify these two guys unless they have some more damning evidence to make public?



As a guess I'd say the government now know exactly who they are but obviously revealing much more could compromise sources.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 14, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> As a guess I'd say the government now know exactly who they are but obviously revealing much more could compromise sources.


And the RT interview with them would have been full of detail about their innocent jobs and lives etc.


----------



## andysays (Sep 14, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> As a guess I'd say the government now know exactly who they are but obviously revealing much more could compromise sources.


That's what I mean. UK authorities say they did it. They (and Putin) say they didn't. What has been achieved?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2018)

The basis for an international coalition to identify specific Russian targets for potential economic responses and the concomitant isolation of Russia. The poisoning and who did it are mere sideshows now.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 14, 2018)

andysays said:


> There appears to be no actual evidence in the public domain of anything more sinister than by in Salisbury at the right time while being of Russian origin.
> 
> I agree that Putin is taking the kids, but the British authorities are making it easy for him. Why identify these two guys unless they have some more damning evidence to make public?



You mean like:



> CCTV and other evidence records their travel to and from Salisbury and crucially, there are images which clearly places them in the vicinity of the Skripal’s house at 11:58 A.M. on Sunday, 4 March. This was moments before the attack took place, which involved placing the substance on the Skripal’s front door handle.



Bearing in mind Skripal’s house was in the opposite direction from the railway station to Salisbury Cathedral, and no CCTV footage has shown them near Salisbury Cathedral.



> Further, testing of the hotel the pair stayed in in London revealed the presence of traces of the Novichok substance in their hotel room.



As if Novichok doesn't randomly turn-up in London hotels all the time.

And, it's not like the Russians don't have a long history of carrying out these sorts of hits.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2018)

Has pilger gone quiet too? Oh yes, he has.


----------



## andysays (Sep 14, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> You mean like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Has this evidence been made public?

Because general speaking I'd be dubious about the idea that we should assign guilt simply on the basis of an assertion by the authorities that they have some circumstantial evidence that supports a claim of guilt but they're not prepared to make it public.

I doubt there will be any attempt to extradite these two, but can you imagine any state agreeing to hand over two of its citizens on that basis? No wonder Putin is able to take the piss.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2018)

andysays said:


> Has this evidence been made public?
> 
> Because general speaking I'd be dubious about the idea that we should assign guilt simply on the basis of an assertion by the authorities that they have some circumstantial evidence that supports a claim of guilt but they're not prepared to make it public.
> 
> I doubt there will be any attempt to extradite these two, but can you imagine any state agreeing to hand over two of its citizens on that basis? No wonder Putin is able to take the piss.


It's in all the fucking papers and news stories - how do you think people are talking about it? The pictures of them by skripals house in the other direction from the cathedral etc. Or you mean the lab work on the room they stayed in where traces of the chemical were found and the chain of evidence proving that's where it came from? I think you needed to have read a bit more about what has been released before starting down this path.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 14, 2018)

andysays said:


> Has this evidence been made public?
> 
> Because general speaking I'd be dubious about the idea that we should assign guilt simply on the basis of an assertion by the authorities that they have some circumstantial evidence that supports a claim of guilt but they're not prepared to make it public.



Since when have the authorities put all their evidence, in detail, to the public, before putting it before a court? 

The evidence has been put before the CPS, the EU, NATO, and the UN, hence European arrest warrants have been issued, this has been widely reported. 



> I doubt there will be any attempt to extradite these two, but can you imagine any state agreeing to hand over two of its citizens on that basis? No wonder Putin is able to take the piss.



Of course there will be no attempt to extradite them, Russia doesn't give up their own, this has also been widely reported. 

Fucking hell, what planet are you living on?


----------



## andysays (Sep 14, 2018)

OK, I clearly haven't read widely enough on this to get the full picture about what evidence has been presented to various other bodies.

Apologies for pointless comments...


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Sep 14, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> They didn't kill the intended target, and left the novichok laying around in a public garden to be picked-up months later, resulting in an innocent person's death. If they had even put it in a bin or dumpster it would have ended up in a landfill site within a week or two at most.



Is it their fault the poison didn't work?  Does it particularly matter?  To Russia, that is.  Message sent, pretty clear who it was from.  

Seems pretty clear to me that this whole thing was planned at a high level, with input from a broad range of specialists (at the least 2 hitmen, someone to provide the chemical, someone to design a chemical container that looks like perfume and securely holds the compound, someone to help with the dodgy passports and visa applications, someone to coordinate and authorise all this).  

With this level of planning, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the identification of the agents was almost certainly anticipated.  They cannot be blamed for the chemical not working.  Russia probably doesn't care about a couple of dead civilians. If the possibility of a less than perfect outcome would essentially mean it had become a suicide mission, who on earth would ever volunteer?   Backslaps and treble vodkas all round seems more realistic to me.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 14, 2018)

Jon-of-arc said:


> who on earth would ever volunteer?



You are assuming they volunteered, I am not convinced that's how these sort of operations tend to be arranged.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 14, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> You are assuming they volunteered, I am not convinced that's how these sort of operations tend to be arranged.


I suspect it's more "volunteering" than volunteering.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 14, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I suspect it's more "volunteering" than volunteering.



As in obeying orders.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 14, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I suspect it's more "volunteering" than volunteering.



Yes and after this roaring success they might find themselves volunteering to help the rebels on the front line in Eastern Ukraine.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Sep 14, 2018)

I'm gonna go out on another limb and guess that the GRU has the same problems recruiting willing, able patriotic sorts as MI6 or the CIA do, ie no problems whatsoever.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 14, 2018)




----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 14, 2018)

Peter Chadwick said:


> Isn't this Craig Murray guy a number one conspiracy theorist ? Maybe the interview with these ruskies is fake, they are just stooges for mi5 ?



Years ago, I lived in the same building as Craig and his wife. I even fed their cats once or twice when they were away.

I never really got to know him that well but we shared some brief chat, and he seemed like a nice enough guy. We never really got to chatting about conspiracies but he was pretty involved with human rights issues from what I recall.


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 14, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> If I was Alex or Ruslan I'd be shitting my pants right now.
> 
> They're gonna go missing. One will die in a car crash and the other will have a heart attack or _jump off a balcony._



Litvinenko was killed 12 years ago in London and the UK named the two men they were pretty sure killed him, some of the basis for accusation coming from CCTV evidence.

One of these men, Andrey Lugovoy, later became a Russian MP, currently deputy of the state Duma (lower house) in fact. I reckon these guys are safe and will be rewarded suitably.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 14, 2018)

Good thing the British state can be seized of this and has no other pressing concerns.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 14, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Litvinenko was killed 12 years ago in London and the UK named the two men they were pretty sure killed him, some of the basis for accusation coming from CCTV evidence.
> 
> One of these men, Andrey Lugovoy, later became a Russian MP, currently deputy of the state Duma (lower house) in fact. I reckon these guys are safe and will be rewarded suitably.



Really?  What should have been a straight forward hit which would have barely made the news has turned into a shit show for the Russian government.  The interview has just compounded the problem.  I feel fairly confident we're unlikely to see the two cloister lovers enter politics any time soon.


----------



## Duncan2 (Sep 14, 2018)

the thing about the interview which is a bit surprising is that the two men talk over one another and give every impression of having failed to get their story straight in advance.Guess this is why Murray is urging folks to watch it.If it was them there seems to have been a stunning lack of planning all round.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2018)

Duncan2 said:


> the thing about the interview which is a bit surprising is that the two men talk over one another and give every impression of having failed to get their story straight in advance.Guess this is why Murray is urging folks to watch it.If it was them there seems to have been a stunning lack of planning all round.


Eh?


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 14, 2018)

The loon fightback starts.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 14, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Really?  What should have been a straight forward hit which would have barely made the news has turned into a shit show for the Russian government.  The interview has just compounded the problem.  I feel fairly confident we're unlikely to see the two cloister lovers enter politics any time soon.


It's not really a shit show for the Russian government, though.

They have sent a message about dissidents - "we'll get you" - and also shown that they can, apparently without trying particularly hard to be secret about it, operate on foreign territory, even in one of the most surveilled countries in the world.

And then they've basically made like Muttley, by barely bothering to present a credible alternative argument as to what the people the UK has accused of carrying out the "hit" were doing. In a kind of "hyuk hyuk hyuk, oh, yeah, we were just wandering around taking in the sights *snigger*" way. They don't give a fuck if we think (or know) that they did it.

This is going to play well domestically, and makes the UK look like the Keystone Kops (at least from a Russian point of view). It's wins all round as far as Putin is concerned.

A deniable, professional hit whereby Skripal was quietly killed without any collateral damage or the finger of suspicion pointing at Russia would have been next-to-useless to them - the whole point was to send a message that they can do what they want, and don't give a fuck about anyone's opinion on the matter.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 14, 2018)

Yeah, the blokes not dead.  A fairly simple operation which got fucked up.

Sure, they're playing to the domestic audience but this has not gone as planned by any means. In an ideal world you don't want your assassins fronting a new travel show.  This should be very obvious.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2018)

They're shit. We're spinning it as they're great.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 14, 2018)

They’re shit at interviews anyway.

GRU my arse.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 14, 2018)

the death of the target would have been a bonus - this is not an just an assasination - its a show of reach - theses two are patsys


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2018)

existentialist said:


> It's not really a shit show for the Russian government, though.
> 
> They have sent a message about dissidents - "we'll get you" - and also shown that they can, apparently without trying particularly hard to be secret about it, operate on foreign territory, even in one of the most surveilled countries in the world.
> 
> ...



The message isn’t we’ll get you though. They didn’t get them dead and they had the fucker locked up in their own jail, so if they wanted to get him they wouldn’t have let him out and given him a passport and allowed him to move to Wiltshire.

Been struggling to find a motive for Russia to do this.

And have drunkenly come up with one:

To test the unity of the EU/UK/US in the face of Brexit/Trump.


Flame me.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> They’re shit at interviews anyway.
> 
> GRU my arse.



GRU is the airport code for São Paulo, which in Cyrillic is an anagram for Novichok


----------



## rekil (Sep 14, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> the death of the target would have been a bonus - this is not an just an assasination - its a show of reach - theses two are patsys


They should raise this at their annual performance review. And slag the boffins for their shit gear.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 14, 2018)

have they hit their KPI's ?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2018)

Every thing in russia is creaking old shit - so are  these. It's not actual Jane/idris bond.


----------



## Duncan2 (Sep 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Every thing in russia is creaking old shit - so are  these. It's not actual Jane/idris bond.


military grade creaking old shit no doubt.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 14, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> have they hit their KPI's ?


Killing People Indicators?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 15, 2018)

etc /


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Sep 15, 2018)

andysays said:


> Has this evidence been made public?
> 
> Because general speaking I'd be dubious about the idea that we should assign guilt simply on the basis of an assertion by the authorities that they have some circumstantial evidence that supports a claim of guilt but they're not prepared to make it public.
> 
> I doubt there will be any attempt to extradite these two, but can you imagine any state agreeing to hand over two of its citizens on that basis? No wonder Putin is able to take the piss.


If they were extradited they would face a trial in the U.K., where it would have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they were guilty. They won’t be extradited though.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 15, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Years ago, I lived in the same building as Craig and his wife. I even fed their cats once or twice when they were away.
> 
> I never really got to know him that well but we shared some brief chat, and he seemed like a nice enough guy. We never really got to chatting about conspiracies but he was pretty involved with human rights issues from what I recall.



Really stand up guy, not an idiot at all, I know from work, in his mid-70's with a long and reputed background sat down with me and a few pints a couple of months back and shared his Alien Illuminati hidden hands of history conspiracy theory with some gusto. Appeared to really believe this shit. I demurred and he has never mentioned it again. My point is that this nonsense appears to have embedded itself in many otherwise sane minds. 

On the OP. This looks like a botched op. The Russians have been assassinating people in the UK over quite a few years and in this case did a particularly bad job of it. If the dose  had been higher and it appeared  Skripal had died from a heart attack the poison would not have been detected and it would have been yet another slightly mysterious death of a Russian national in the UK to add to the already long list in existence.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 15, 2018)

It's all really rather strange and I don't really see what the Russians would have gained even if this had all gone as planned


----------



## A380 (Sep 15, 2018)




----------



## A380 (Sep 15, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> It's all really rather strange and I don't really see what the Russians would have gained even if this had all gone as planned


A warning to other people not to run and/or keep their heads down when they do?

A demonstration to European governments that the Russians will do this kind of thing so factor it into any decision making?

Just good old fashioned spite?

As other people have posted, how many people here, and aground the world have been killed and the deaths gone under the Radar? We are pretty good here at the whole CBRNe thing even compared to the rest of the EU. How many heart attacks, rapid onset leukaemias, or strokes around the world in late middle aged Russian chaps were more successful interventions?


----------



## Poi E (Sep 15, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> It's all really rather strange and I don't really see what the Russians would have gained even if this had all gone as planned



Security services going off on one. Lucky they didn't go to war, huh.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 15, 2018)

A380 said:


> A warning to other people not to run and/or keep their heads down when they do?
> 
> A demonstration to European governments that the Russians will do this kind of thing so factor it into any decision making?
> 
> ...


Skripal didn't run, he was a prisoner swap.


----------



## gosub (Sep 15, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> They’re shit at interviews anyway.
> 
> GRU my arse.



If I was training assassin spooks "how to conduct yourself on telly" would probably not be one of the core modules


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 15, 2018)

gosub said:


> If I was training assassin spooks "how to conduct yourself on telly" would probably not be one of the core modules


This is how they ended up like that


----------



## teqniq (Sep 15, 2018)




----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Sep 15, 2018)

Not to give any credence to conspiraloonery, but has it not been suggested that Skripal was still doing some of the type of work he was trained to do, rather than lying low, and this would be ample motive for the assassination attempt, even if that work were not related, as has also been suggested, to the whole UK/Russia/US election/referendum meddling/Trump/Brexit/Cambridge Analytica et al/ Steele etc affair?
As far as the method is concerned though, that does appear to have been about sending a message or why not use something simpler?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 15, 2018)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> Not to give any credence to conspiraloonery, but has it not been suggested that Skripal was still doing some of the type of work he was trained to do, rather than lying low, and this would be ample motive for the assassination attempt, even if that work were not related, as has also been suggested, to the whole UK/Russia/US election/referendum meddling/Trump/Brexit/Cambridge Analytica et al/ Steele etc affair?
> As far as the method is concerned though, that does appear to have been about sending a message or why not use something simpler?


It's not been suggested it's been shown. But my faith in novichok now fatally undermined


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 15, 2018)

I agree its not really clear what the russian motives were - but "sending a message" is definitely one of them. They used novichok as a calling card to say "it was us" without having to say it officially. Ditto the RT interview with the failed assassins. Maybe the gay stuff was a way of having a "joke" on the Uk et al - whilst humiliating the bungling agents. 
As to why they felt the need to off Skripial - fuck knows. Maybe Putin was bored and just wanted to do some murderous trolling of the UK so as to buff up his bond villain credentials.


----------



## gosub (Sep 15, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> I agree its not really clear what the russian motives were - but "sending a message" is definitely one of them. They used novichok as a calling card to say "it was us" without having to say it officially. Ditto the RT interview with the failed assassins. Maybe the gay stuff was a way of having a "joke" on the Uk et al - whilst humiliating the bungling agents.
> As to why they felt the need to off Skripial - fuck knows. Maybe Putin was bored and just wanted to do some murderous trolling of the UK so as to buff up his bond villain credentials.


Keep hearing Baltic states with regard Skripal so I'd guess the forthcoming Dansk court case


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 16, 2018)

I know this needs taking with a massive pinch of salt, but The Sun is claiming to have spoken to people at the hotel where the spies were staying, claiming that the smell of cannabis wafted from their twin room, whilst they partied with a prostitute, the night before the assassination attempt.

True or not, I don't suppose this will win them friends back home.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 16, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know this needs taking with a massive pinch of salt, but The Sun is claiming to have spoken to people at the hotel where the spies were staying, claiming that the smell of cannabis wafted from their twin room, whilst they partied with a prostitute, the night before the assassination attempt.
> 
> True or not, I don't suppose this will win them friends back home.


So they arrive in the UK, head to East London and book into a scabby hotel. Then pop out to Whitechapel to buy a 20 quid draw? Er?


----------



## LDC (Sep 16, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know this needs taking with a massive pinch of salt, but The Sun is claiming to have spoken to people at the hotel where the spies were staying, claiming that the smell of cannabis wafted from their twin room, whilst they partied with a prostitute, the night before the assassination attempt.
> 
> True or not, I don't suppose this will win them friends back home.



Needs taking less with a pinch and more with a Siberian mine of salt. Appropriately.

The world has gone mad. I'm waiting for the photo of them at a secret meeting in an Whitechapel alley with Corbyn...


----------



## Grump (Sep 16, 2018)

A Spy Story: Sergei Skripal Was a Little Fish. He Had a Big Enemy.
Interesting article about the incident. Nothing particularly new but it lays out the hatred Putin has of traitors, especially from the intelligence community, and how Skripal raised his profile by talking to foreign intelligence agencies about his work as a spy.


----------



## sihhi (Sep 16, 2018)

existentialist said:


> It's not really a shit show for the Russian government, though.
> 
> They have sent a message about dissidents - "we'll get you" - and also shown that they can, apparently without trying particularly hard to be secret about it, operate on foreign territory, even in one of the most surveilled countries in the world.
> 
> ...




Where's the evidence that this plays well to a domestic audience? Are ordinary people in Russia cheering on this kind of murder?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know this needs taking with a massive pinch of salt, but The Sun is claiming to have spoken to people at the hotel where the spies were staying, claiming that the smell of cannabis wafted from their twin room, whilst they partied with a prostitute, the night before the assassination attempt.
> 
> True or not, I don't suppose this will win them friends back home.


This may surprise you but very few people in russia read the sun


----------



## existentialist (Sep 16, 2018)

sihhi said:


> Where's the evidence that this plays well to a domestic audience? Are ordinary people in Russia cheering on this kind of murder?


As I recall, there were some Moscow vox pops at the time of the poisoning saying words to the effect that he had it coming to him - possibly some stuff about traitors, too.

Russia likes its strongman leaders, and this will have been at least in part a national pride thing.


----------



## sihhi (Sep 16, 2018)

existentialist said:


> As I recall, there were some Moscow vox pops at the time of the poisoning saying words to the effect that he had it coming to him - possibly some stuff about traitors, too.
> 
> Russia likes its strongman leaders, and this will have been at least in part a national pride thing.



What channel, when? 

There's been steady protests against the pension reforms for well over a month now, I don't think Russia likes its strongman leaders.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 16, 2018)

sihhi said:


> What channel, when?
> 
> There's been steady protests against the pension reforms for well over a month now, I don't think Russia likes its strongman leaders.


I don't remember. It was not supposed to be an evidenced statement of incontrovertible fact.


----------



## sihhi (Sep 16, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I don't remember. It was not supposed to be an evidenced statement of incontrovertible fact.



ok.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 16, 2018)

Not exactly a ruthless elite killing machine


----------



## A380 (Sep 16, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I don't remember. It was not supposed to be an evidenced statement of incontrovertible fact.


Then you’re not allowed to post in P&P. You can only state things you can back up with three sources, preferably sources that are published on photocopied revolutionary journals in size seven font with no pictures. 

It’s the only way to do politics right.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 16, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know this needs taking with a massive pinch of salt, but The Sun is claiming to have spoken to people at the hotel where the spies were staying, claiming that the smell of cannabis wafted from their twin room, whilst they partied with a prostitute, the night before the assassination attempt.



Doing things by the book and blending in with the locals 

All gets darkly humorous. Putin sends the shit spies to the UK. Saves the good ones for somewhere else.


----------



## A380 (Sep 16, 2018)

likesfish said:


> Not exactly a ruthless elite killing machine


I imagine the Gu/ GRU still manages to forget it’s going to be ( Orthodox) Christmas till about November every year when it comes to drawing up the poisoning  shift rosters.

And at least one of the two Sailsbury subjects won’t bother claiming back the expenses for the railway tickets because the process is such a faff on a system that only lets you log on half the time.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 16, 2018)

A380 said:


> Then you’re not allowed to post in P&P. You can only state things you can back up with three sources, preferably sources that are published on photocopied revolutionary journals in size seven font with no pictures.
> 
> It’s the only way to do politics right.


You are, of course, correct.

I will go immediately and dig a canal in South Georgia.


----------



## Supine (Sep 16, 2018)

Interesting info on the Russian lads

Skripal Poisoning Suspect's Passport Data Shows Link to Security Services - bellingcat


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 16, 2018)

Lads?


----------



## A380 (Sep 16, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Lads?


Great bunch of lads the Russians...


----------



## gosub (Sep 16, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know this needs taking with a massive pinch of salt, but The Sun is claiming to have spoken to people at the hotel where the spies were staying, claiming that the smell of cannabis wafted from their twin room, whilst they partied with a prostitute, the night before the assassination attempt.
> 
> True or not, I don't suppose this will win them friends back home.




Another press interview where they expound on the World renowned quality of Bow prostitutes might help with the 'gay' murmurs


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Sep 16, 2018)

Blooming heck - hope this just a false alarm:


----------



## ddraig (Sep 16, 2018)

Police seal off Salisbury restaurant


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 16, 2018)




----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 16, 2018)

Then they said,



Spoiler



Mы сказали вам. Это произошло от Портона Дауна 



Oh go on then


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 17, 2018)

This latest thing is not novichok related, and the major incident response has been steeped down, according to Wiltshire Police, reported on Sky News.


----------



## xarmian (Sep 17, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> View attachment 146992


This is funny but it wasnt 24 hours it was two short visits. Nearly 4 hours each way by train on the Saturday and same again on Sunday. Not important except for conspiracy theorists saying its normal.


----------



## Mrs D (Sep 17, 2018)

xarmian said:


> This is funny but it wasnt 24 hours it was two short visits. Nearly 4 hours each way by train on the Saturday and same again on Sunday. Not important except for conspiracy theorists saying its normal.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 17, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> This latest thing is not novichok related, and the major incident response has been steeped down, according to Wiltshire Police, reported on Sky News.


Wonder what it was? For a couple to be taken ill simultaneously in a restaurant it could be food poisoning? Sudden virus that kicked in fiercely for both of them at the same time?


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 17, 2018)

Sniffing super strong coke in the bogs


----------



## Badgers (Sep 17, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> Sniffing super strong coke in the bogs


I read one 'report' stating they were unconscious  that said there are probably many differing reports.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 17, 2018)

Badgers said:


> I read one 'report' stating they were unconscious  that said there are probably many differing reports.


She was back and forth to the bogs I read somewhere. Maybe ket or something cut with an RC?

I reckon it'll be drugs


----------



## Badgers (Sep 17, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> She was back and forth to the bogs I read somewhere. Maybe ket or something cut with an RC?
> 
> I reckon it'll be drugs


Hopefully so


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 17, 2018)

existentialist said:


> You are, of course, correct.
> 
> I will go immediately and dig a canal in South Georgia.


There's no need to go that far, you could dig tunnels on ascension island


----------



## A380 (Sep 17, 2018)

One possibility is that one or both were  worried well. One person may have been physically reacting to something or they both might have talked themselves into it.  In any CBRNe or Hazmat event a fair number of people will start to belive they have symptoms. It’s not hypochondria but more similar to how yawning transfers...

For example, I have attached an agent to this message. It will transfer from your device on to your fingers and, being  lipid soluble, into your blood stream. It will make your eyes itch a little bit. There, can you feel your eyes getting a bit itchy, not much but you may need to blink a bit more? Mine are definitely geting a bit itchy, yours?

Also, it will make you salivate more than normal, just a minute, is there a little more saliva in your mouth? Well, just think about that a minute. How are your eyes? Mine are definitely a bit itchy now...

Etc.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 17, 2018)




----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 18, 2018)

Russian’s possible MI6 links to stay secret



> The government can keep secret the details of whether there were any links between British spies and a Russian businessman who died in mysterious circumstances, a coroner has ruled.
> 
> Alexander Perepilichnyy, 44, collapsed in November 2012 when out jogging near his mansion in Surrey.
> 
> ...





> The coroner at the inquest into his death, judge Nicholas Hilliard QC, upheld an application by Home Secretary Sajid Javid, who is refusing to publicly release documents from MI5 and MI6 relating to Mr Perepilichnyy for security reasons.
> Mr Perepilichnyy, a millionaire businessman, moved to the UK in 2009 and had been helping the Hermitage Capital hedge fund expose an alleged $230m (£176m) money-laundering scheme linked to Russian organised crime.
> 
> He spent the night before his death in Paris, where a witness said he fallen ill at a sushi restaurant and was sick several times.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 18, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> ...



as the eyebrow of cynicism meets the hairline of disbelief....


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 19, 2018)

Now WTF is going on with The Sun's front page this morning? 


Now picked-up by most the tabloids' websites, including The Mirror;
Russian model claims she was 'targeted by Putin with rat poison' in Prezzo


> Anna, who recently fled London after receiving death threats, said: “I was targeted by Putin’s henchmen. They want me dead as I oppose Putin and have turned my back on my country. Russia is capable of anything.”





> A Russian lingerie model has sensationally claimed Putin tried to kill her with rat poison while she dined with her husband at a Prezzo restaurant in Salisbury.



Her husband remains seriously ill in hospital, apparently they married just a month ago. 

Someone is taking the piss, and I am not convinced it's Putin on this occasion.


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 19, 2018)

Rat poison? That’s almost an insult, like they weren’t worth the ‘good’ stuff.

Other possibilities: crass publicity stunt, domestic source targeting them due to anti-Russian motives (‘see if they like a taste of their own medicine’), aliens/joos (I await the crankosphere’s considered opinion) ...


----------



## LDC (Sep 19, 2018)

From _The Guardian_:

"Shapiro, 30, an events organiser and model, told the Sun her father was a Russian general and claimed Moscow wanted her dead because she had turned her back on her homeland. She said her 42-year-old husband was still being treated at Salisbury district hospital and was seriously ill but she had discharged herself.

Police sources reacted with deep scepticism to Shapiro’s account."

10/10 for cheek, 0/10 for believability.

Modelling career taken a recent downturn, hoping for some media exposure?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 19, 2018)

She was well exposed in the pictures on the various 'news' sites.

Enough to give an old man a heart attack.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 19, 2018)

You lot are so cynical. Whenever I find myself foaming at the mouth and suspect I've been attacked by a nuclear armed state, I always put on my best stockings, heels and matching bra and panties for the press.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 19, 2018)

kebabking said:


> You lot are so cynical. Whenever I find myself foaming at the mouth and suspect I've been attacked by a nuclear armed state, I always put on my best stockings, heels and matching bra and panties for the press.



Pics?


----------



## LDC (Sep 19, 2018)

kebabking said:


> Whenever I find myself foaming at the mouth I'm always in my best stockings, heels and matching bra and panties.



FTFY.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 19, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Pics?



Tinder. Assuming you want to see a middle aged man's bollocks hang out either side of some marks and sparks knickers.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 20, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Now WTF is going on with The Sun's front page this morning?
> View attachment 147342
> 
> Her husband remains seriously ill in hospital, apparently they married just a month ago.
> ...



The Sun is back peddling very quickly on this, what a surprise, not. 



> A spokesman for the Sun told the BBC: "Like any newspaper, we were keen to talk to those at the centre of the incident and give them the opportunity to share with the public their version of events."
> 
> The article has since been removed from the newspaper's website "for legal reasons".





> "Given recent events in Salisbury, the reporting of an event requiring the evacuation of bars and restaurants by police officers in bio-hazard suits, and that requires tests for the presence of Novichok, is of obvious public interest," a spokesman for the Sun added.



The police are now investigating if the whole thing was a hoax...



> A hoax is likely to be one line of inquiry after a couple apparently fell ill in a Salisbury restaurant on Sunday prompting a major incident, police sources have told the BBC.
> 
> Alex King, 42, was admitted to hospital with his wife, six months after a nerve agent attack in the same city.
> 
> Mr King is a convicted criminal and once hoaxed Prince Charles.


'Hoax' may be line of inquiry in Salisbury

Turning something like food poisoning into a publicity stunt would be bad enough, but if it was all a hoax, I hope the couple get billed for every penny of the police & NHS costs, and some more on top by way of compensation - bankrupt them - plus a short time inside to think about what they've done.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 20, 2018)

I think deportation would be the best result. 

I'd love to be a fly on the walk as she explains herself to Russian Immigration. what is the food at Lefortovo like these days...?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 20, 2018)

He seems a charmer 


> In 2004, Mr King pleaded guilty at London's Horseferry Road Magistrates' Court to three counts of distributing indecent photographs or pseudo-photographs of children.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 20, 2018)

kebabking said:


> I think deportation would be the best result.
> 
> I'd love to be a fly on the walk as she explains herself to Russian Immigration. what is the food at Lefortovo like these days...?



She appears to be an Israeli citizen so probably won't be seeing the inside of a Moscow prison or manual labour in Siberia any time soon. 

The whole thing is very odd.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 20, 2018)

kebabking said:


> I think deportation would be the best result.
> 
> I'd love to be a fly on the walk as she explains herself to Russian Immigration. what is the food at Lefortovo like these days...?


I believe the black bread is excellent, especially with cockroaches.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 20, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I believe the black bread is excellent, especially with cockroaches.



ahh, but how do you eat them when your teeth have been mopped off the floor?

i'm not sure i'd fancy trying a smoothie from there...


----------



## existentialist (Sep 20, 2018)

kebabking said:


> ahh, but how do you eat them when your teeth have been mopped off the floor?
> 
> i'm not sure i'd fancy trying a smoothie from there...


I'm sure things have moved on a lot from the old NKVD days. They can probably do terrible things without even _removing_ the teeth.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 20, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I'm sure things have moved on a lot from the old NKVD days. They can probably do terrible things without even _removing_ the teeth.



Yeah these days they just humiliate you by forcing you to go on international T.V and forlornly try to recite Wikipedia facts.  The vicious swines.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 20, 2018)

What did she think she was going to get out of this apart from annoying Vlad and his mates?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 20, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> What did she think she was going to get out of this apart from annoying Vlad and his mates?


Front page of the S*n? 
Five minutes of fame?


----------



## kebabking (Sep 20, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> What did she think she was going to get out of this apart from annoying Vlad and his mates?



probably not very bright to start with - if she thought she would get away with convincing Porton Down that some very salty water and some anti-acid tablets were Novochok or rat poison then she's unlikely to be in the running for the Fox Chair of Cunning at Cambridge.

she probably wouldn't even get into Kingston...

digging canals in the South Sandwich Islands or deportation to Israel with a 'never to return' stamp - couldn't care less...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 20, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> What did she think she was going to get out of this apart from annoying Vlad and his mates?



Publicity for her as a model and/or a bet, as he has a record for that, from the BBC link I posted earlier.



> In 2006 Mr King carried out a "prank" on the Prince of Wales at a film premiere.
> 
> He inserted himself into an official line-up of stars being greeted by Prince Charles and was later interviewed by the media about his deception.
> 
> He claimed the "prank" was carried out as part of a £100,000 bet with his employer - the convicted fraudster Edward Davenport.



FULL STORY: The Prince, the prankster and a 'peer' who throws sex parties


----------



## dylanredefined (Sep 20, 2018)

kebabking said:


> You lot are so cynical. Whenever I find myself foaming at the mouth and suspect I've been attacked by a nuclear armed state, I always put on my best stockings, heels and matching bra and panties for the press.


Thought you were crab air instead of royal marine?


----------



## kebabking (Sep 20, 2018)

dylanredefined said:


> Thought you were crab air instead of royal marine?



FUUUURRRRCK OFF!

Fucking Crab? Fucking hell, why don't you just say I touch children and be done with it?

Not RM, but have been 3X...


----------



## A380 (Sep 20, 2018)

Would it be sexist to say that I’d inhibit her Acetylcholinesterase any day?


----------



## existentialist (Sep 20, 2018)

A380 said:


> Would it be sexist to say that I’d inhibit her Acetylcholinesterase any day?


Not if you said you'd do the same to her boyfriend, too...


----------



## existentialist (Sep 20, 2018)

dylanredefined said:


> Thought you were crab air instead of royal marine?


----------



## existentialist (Sep 21, 2018)

dylanredefined said:


> Thought you were crab air instead of royal marine?


He sits on gunners in fields...how could he possibly be Crab Air?


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 21, 2018)

Surely the whole point of the original ‘bungled’ poisoning episode and subsequent TV interview was to make Russia look so hopelessly incompetent that nobody would believe them capable of stuff like interfering in democratic elections? Thus letting Trump off the hook so he can continue dividing and destroying the USA from within. A cunning plan.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 21, 2018)

existentialist said:


> He sits on gunners in fields...how could he possibly be Crab Air?



They do, scandalously, have their own 'Gunners' - not real Gunners obviously, more barrier technicians with delusions of adequacy.

#5milerofdeath #brassingupyourownbodyarmour
#uselesscunts


----------



## existentialist (Sep 21, 2018)

kebabking said:


> They do, scandalously, have their own 'Gunners' - not real Gunners obviously, more barrier technicians with delusions of adequacy.
> 
> #5milerofdeath #brassingupyourownbodyarmour
> #uselesscunts


I thought Rockapes just threw each other at the enemy


----------



## kebabking (Sep 21, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I thought Rockapes just threw each other at the enemy



I don't think they can reach the enemy from behind the wire...


----------



## existentialist (Sep 21, 2018)

kebabking said:


> I don't think they can reach the enemy from behind the wire...


Well, with those long, prehensile arms, I'd have thought they would be able to throw them quite a long way...


----------



## kebabking (Sep 21, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Well, with those long, prehensile arms, I'd have thought they would be able to throw them quite a long way...



The PRI is a _looong _way from the wire - and the hands are full of ice creams...


----------



## dylanredefined (Sep 22, 2018)

existentialist said:


> He sits on gunners in fields...how could he possibly be Crab Air?


 Well something military and mentions aviation.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 22, 2018)

dylanredefined said:


> Well something military and mentions aviation.


I've encountered quite a few people in green who mention aviation. Usually, TBF, in the context of "do try not to drop those bombs on us, old chap"


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 26, 2018)

Skripal suspect 'real identity revealed'

One of the Skripal suspects named. Identification ‘not disputed’.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 26, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Surely the whole point of the original ‘bungled’ poisoning episode and subsequent TV interview was to make Russia look so hopelessly incompetent that nobody would believe them capable of stuff like interfering in democratic elections? Thus letting Trump off the hook so he can continue dividing and destroying the USA from within. A cunning plan.



They’ve clearly been killing people on U.K. soil for years (including non Russian citizens who meddled in the wrong business interests).
What they’re doing now is continuing that tradition but testing global relationships - if anyone either gives a fuck or has the stomach to act on it in a serious way. And it looks like the big players mostly don’t want a stand off with Putin so he’ll carry on as is.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 26, 2018)

yes


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 26, 2018)

It starts getting difficult to dismiss convenient deaths as suicides or accidents when a chemical weapon is involved. The Russians weren’t sloppy, it’s deliberate.

Man who introduced Scot Young and 'Ring of Death' to Russians killed in helicopter crash


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 26, 2018)

Not that I’m weeping. Most of these people were sharks that discovered they were further down the food chain than they thought.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It starts getting difficult to dismiss convenient deaths as suicides or accidents when a chemical weapon is involved. The Russians weren’t sloppy, it’s deliberate.
> 
> Man who introduced Scot Young and 'Ring of Death' to Russians killed in helicopter crash


It's a slippery slope and before you know it you'll be breathlessly telling us all about wtc7


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 26, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> It's a slippery slope and before you know it you'll be breathlessly telling us all about wtc7



Yeah. They’re definitely comparable.


----------



## Riklet (Sep 26, 2018)

Re the Salisbury case -

No way these 2 dodgy mustashios did the hit. Classic decoy distraction or muddying the waters. If anything I reckon they sent them to get noticed/nicked or to test security. Surely facial recognition would have picked up high level Russian intelligence agents?

Also no way they brought in the nerve agent weapons - at least 2 bottles of perfume - especially given their profile. Women's perfume too, albeit cellophane sealed like a possible gift.

No way that someone in the team wouldnt have had an antidote and/or be based in Salisbury for recon, obs and clear-up. If so, how the hell did the second bottle get into the 'charity bin' or whever else Charlie Thingy nicked it from. I wonder if someone else got nicked or got dead.

No way they would have gone straight back to London by train right after doing the hit. Seems v unlikely.

I reckon a female agent flying in on EU passport would have brought in the perfume or done the hit. Or both. And I reckon they must have had someone in the team working at Zizzis or one of the other establishments the Scripals frequented. Although if they did know their movements why would they hit them before going out to lunch making it all very public and messy?

The whole thing is so utterly scary and bizarre. Ive no doubt the Russians produced the perfume sprays and possibly an antidote in a similar bottle... but still cant get my head round the rest. Cant believe they would want a random member of the public ending up brown bread or the murder weapon used left lying around.


----------



## xenon (Sep 27, 2018)

That’s a lot of reckons for sure.  I tend to agree with Magnus on this.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Sep 27, 2018)

Yeah, why is there "no way" on all those things, Riklet ?  Seems like there was a way to me, in that the best evidence we have available to us suggests that that was exactly what happened.  Just the idea that someone would hang around "for clean up" after those two had gone, for example, sounds very silly (clean up what, exactly? And how, whilst the world's media, tons of cops, army, intelligence and half of Porton Down showed up to investigate?).


----------



## andysays (Sep 27, 2018)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 27, 2018)

Facial recognition software is still quite shit. The state would love you to think there's an impenetrable network of CCTV covering the entire land but there isn't. Most CCTV is privately operated, low quality and not linked up in real time to some nerd bunker at Scotland Yard like it is on the telly.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2018)

All three parts of the bellingcat investigation (so far) are well worth the read:
Part the first

2

3

In relation to the above reckons (and plenty elsewhere about a larger team), part 1 reveals that:



> The Russian media outlet Fontanka has previously published information on Boshirov and Petrov’s passport files, indicating that they were separated by only 3 digits (-1294 and -1297), meaning that they were issued at nearly the same time. Bellingcat and The Insider also reviewed passport data for the other two individuals to whom those two passports were issued, with the the passport numbers ending in -1295 and -1296. These two individuals also had peculiar passport dossiers, with incomplete or time-capped data, similar to Alexander Petrov’s passport file [see rest of series for why this is v important]


----------



## Riklet (Sep 27, 2018)

Def other passport numbers, def other agents. These guys too high level for a go it alone cowboy mission. What if theyd lost them?

For a start it's definitely the case that there were 2 Novichok sprays. Thats not me speculating. Rowley said in an interview he found a new bottle unopened and assembled it etc. Same women's perfume as the other one.

1 used in the initial attack and one brand new box left lying around Salisbury for several months. Doesnt that seem _weird. _Especially assuming the facts are what they are and 2 high level intelligence officers flew in to Gatwick on Aeroflot did a 2 day job straight to the airport and then out again. Why was there a second bottle and why would it be left behind unused?

Fair enough the rest of my reckoning may well be way off, but this part doesnt make sense. Unless the Russians wanted it found and assumed it would be rather quickly.


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 27, 2018)

One real bottle and one fake that British secret services had switched at the airport before telling the intended victims to fake the symptoms. Then they thought they’d test out what was in the real bottle on a couple of marginal characters.

Making up shot like this is easy...


----------



## 2hats (Sep 30, 2018)

BBC journalists travel to home town of Chepiga where local identifies him as decorated military officer.


----------



## 2hats (Oct 4, 2018)

Russians expelled from the Netherlands over suspected GRU cyber attack on the OPCW.

Russians 'targeted chemical weapons watchdog' - Russia 'targeted chemical weapons body'


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 4, 2018)

I like that this latest bunch of clowns had taxi receipts on them from GRU HQ to Moscow Airport. LOL. Got to clam back your expenses! Very James Bond.


----------



## twentythreedom (Oct 4, 2018)

You'd think they'd be able to blag a lift at least


----------



## Dan U (Oct 4, 2018)

some of the detail in that press conference is amazing

look forward to seeing these guys on RT soon explaining this one away. 

'well yes i decided to smash up my mobile phone because. erm.'


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 4, 2018)

What I like about this one is that it really develops the narrative of Russia - and by extension Putin - being rubbish at spy craft and less than gifted with technology. I mean really, sitting in small family car in a public car park using mobile phones and wifi hotspots. 

And this is the shower that hijacks elections ..


----------



## 2hats (Oct 4, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> What I like about this one is that it really develops the narrative of Russia - and by extension Putin - being rubbish at spy craft and less than gifted with technology. I mean really, sitting in small family car in a public car park using mobile phones and wifi hotspots.
> 
> And this is the shower that hijacks elections ..


Next they'll be hiding microphones in plastic rocks...


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 4, 2018)

2hats said:


> Next they'll be hiding microphones in plastic rocks...


satellite gear in tree stumps ftw


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 4, 2018)

2hats said:


> Next they'll be hiding microphones in plastic rocks...



There's a couple of solar lights in plastic rocks in my garden.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 4, 2018)

The Fornicator said:


> I like that this latest bunch of clowns had taxi receipts on them from GRU HQ to Moscow Airport. LOL. Got to clam back your expenses! Very James Bond.


I am 100% of the view that this is no accident. This is Putin making sure everybody knows what he's capable of.


----------



## The Fornicator (Oct 4, 2018)

That's your choice. I'm not sure his ego is built to take the incompetency this reveals.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 4, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> satellite gear in tree stumps ftw


r2d1


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> r2d1



R2 Tree2, surely?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 4, 2018)

Jon-of-arc said:


> R2 Tree2, surely?


d is for dendro


----------



## 2hats (Oct 4, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I am 100% of the view that this is no accident. This is Putin making sure everybody knows what he's capable of.


He also probably just doesn’t care either. He’s beyond rules and untouchable. Probably rather enjoys brass-necking it out.


----------



## 2hats (Oct 8, 2018)

Bellingcat thinks the second suspect in the Skripal investigation (originally identified as travelling under the name Alexander Petrov) is a military doctor in the employ of the GRU called Alexander Mishkin.


----------



## gosub (Oct 8, 2018)

2hats said:


> He also probably just doesn’t care either. He’s beyond rules and untouchable. Probably rather enjoys brass-necking it out.


Disagree. 67% of Russian GDP is offshore already, and and what happened when Soviet colappassed. May well be a pinch point between security services that turned gangster (sort of understandably) and thems that ain't... (that Bowden stuff really)  but proving yourself as gangster as possible, might,, longterm, be the best survival strategy
And from Putin’s perspective (a lot of balls in the air) maybe think about whether Catherine the Great is the best face to have on the rouble


----------



## LDC (Oct 9, 2018)

2hats said:


> Bellingcat thinks the second suspect in the Skripal investigation (originally identified as travelling under the name Alexander Petrov) is a military doctor in the employ of the GRU called Alexander Mishkin.



Full report now published, nice work.

Full report: Skripal Poisoning Suspect Dr. Alexander Mishkin, Hero of Russia - bellingcat


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 9, 2018)

Karla would be turning in his fucking grave.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 9, 2018)

kinell-did someone not think this through.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Nov 16, 2018)

Russia 'sought access to UK visa system'
Now then. This is interesting 

I think I have alluded to the visa situation in the past from stuff I have heard out and about- visas were being issued to wrong uns and triggers not being picked up on. This may be behind it. Oh my. A vassal state to Russia.


----------



## teqniq (Nov 22, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2018)

irishman 27/6/1863: the more things change...


----------



## gosub (Dec 2, 2018)

Death of GRU chief sends Western media and pundits into tailspin of conspiracy theories

No reports of his cremation yet.

305 Car Registrations May Point to Massive GRU Security Breach - bellingcat
Russian journalist 'seen behaving suspiciously' at UK military base


----------



## LDC (Feb 14, 2019)

Good work by bellingcat again

Third Suspect in Skripal Poisoning Identified as Denis Sergeev, High-Ranking GRU Officer - bellingcat


----------



## LDC (Mar 1, 2019)

King's College London Policy Institute report on the poisoning and Russian media/State disinformation

Weaponising news: RT, Sputnik and targeted disinformation | King’s College London


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Mar 3, 2019)

Anybody seen this?  Who done this? Russians, taking the piss? Or local pisstakers?

Russian flag flown on Salisbury Cathedral

Quite funny, either way..


----------



## CRI (Mar 7, 2019)

Well, this is an interesting follow up story.

'Highly likely' GRU hacked UK institute countering Russian fake news



> Whitehall sources said it is highly likely that Russia's military intelligence service carried out the hack-and-leak of files from the little-known Institute for Statecraft.
> 
> The move may have been in response to Britain implicating the GRU in the Salisbury spy poisoning last year and pledging to "shine a light" on the agency's covert activities, they said.
> 
> Security officials regard the attack as significant because - if confirmed - it would mark the first time Russia has conducted a hack-and-leak operation in Britain, a separate source said.





> Files stolen from the institute - registered in Scotland as an educational charity but based in London and with about 12 staff - have been leaked online every few weeks since November.





> A number of individuals - including institute staff - have had their names, bank details, home addresses and other private information leaked as part of the attack.
> 
> One said he suspected intruders had on a number of occasions broken into his home and moved objects around, including miniature figurines on a shelf.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 7, 2019)




----------



## Chilli.s (Mar 7, 2019)

An educational charity?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 7, 2019)

Chilli.s said:


> An educational charity?



That's what 'think tanks' call themselves for tax purposes. That they tend to educate using a very specific set of ideas beneficial to the interests of those who fund them is, we can be certain, pure coincidence.


----------



## LDC (May 31, 2019)

Vaguely relevant (and interesting anyway even if not) article about the changing nature of the reliability of false identities for people like the Russians involved in this...

The Spycraft Revolution


----------



## Poi E (May 31, 2019)

Interesting. Almost complete reliance on the private sector by spy agencies.


----------



## LDC (May 31, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Interesting. Almost complete reliance on the private sector by spy agencies.



Bellingcat have been having to get rather stricter about government employees from certain agencies attending their OSINT courses apparently.


----------



## 2hats (Oct 10, 2019)

This thread seems as good a place as anywhere for this.



> Top Secret Russian Unit Seeks to Destabilize Europe, Security Officials Say
> 
> Western security officials have now concluded that these operations, and potentially many others, are part of a coordinated and ongoing campaign to destabilize Europe, executed by an elite unit inside the Russian intelligence system skilled in subversion, sabotage and assassination.
> 
> The group, known as Unit 29155, has operated for at least a decade, yet Western officials only recently discovered it. Intelligence officials in four Western countries say it is unclear how often the unit is mobilized and warn that it is impossible to know when and where its operatives will strike.


Source: The New York Times.



Spoiler: Full text part 1.



Top Secret Russian Unit Seeks to Destabilize Europe, Security Officials Say

By Michael Schwirtz
Oct. 8, 2019

First came a destabilization campaign in Moldova, followed by the poisoning of an arms dealer in Bulgaria and then a thwarted coup in Montenegro. Last year, there was an attempt to assassinate a former Russian spy in Britain using a nerve agent. Though the operations bore the fingerprints of Russia’s intelligence services, the authorities initially saw them as isolated, unconnected attacks.

Western security officials have now concluded that these operations, and potentially many others, are part of a coordinated and ongoing campaign to destabilize Europe, executed by an elite unit inside the Russian intelligence system skilled in subversion, sabotage and assassination.

The group, known as Unit 29155, has operated for at least a decade, yet Western officials only recently discovered it. Intelligence officials in four Western countries say it is unclear how often the unit is mobilized and warn that it is impossible to know when and where its operatives will strike.

The purpose of Unit 29155, which has not been previously reported, underscores the degree to which the Russian president, Vladimir V. Putin, is actively fighting the West with his brand of so-called hybrid warfare — a blend of propaganda, hacking attacks and disinformation — as well as open military confrontation.

“I think we had forgotten how organically ruthless the Russians could be,” said Peter Zwack, a retired military intelligence officer and former defense attaché at the United States Embassy in Moscow, who said he was not aware of the unit’s existence.

In a text message, Dmitri S. Peskov, Mr. Putin’s spokesman, directed questions about the unit to the Russian Defense Ministry. The ministry did not respond to requests for comment.

Hidden behind concrete walls at the headquarters of the 161st Special Purpose Specialist Training Center in eastern Moscow, the unit sits within the command hierarchy of the Russian military intelligence agency, widely known as the G.R.U.

Though much about G.R.U. operations remains a mystery, Western intelligence agencies have begun to get a clearer picture of its underlying architecture. In the months before the 2016 presidential election, American officials say two G.R.U. cyber units, known as 26165 and 74455, hacked into the servers of the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign, and then published embarrassing internal communications.

Last year, Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel overseeing the inquiry into Russian interference in the 2016 elections, indicted more than a dozen officers from those units, though all still remain at large. The hacking teams mostly operate from Moscow, thousands of miles from their targets.

By contrast, officers from Unit 29155 travel to and from European countries. Some are decorated veterans of Russia’s bloodiest wars, including in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Ukraine. Its operations are so secret, according to assessments by Western intelligence services, that the unit’s existence is most likely unknown even to other G.R.U. operatives.

The unit appears to be a tight-knit community. A photograph taken in 2017 shows the unit’s commander, Maj. Gen. Andrei V. Averyanov, at his daughter’s wedding in a gray suit and bow tie. He is posing with Col. Anatoly V. Chepiga, one of two officers indicted in Britain over the poisoning of a former spy, Sergei V. Skripal.

“This is a unit of the G.R.U. that has been active over the years across Europe,” said one European security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe classified intelligence matters. “It’s been a surprise that the Russians, the G.R.U., this unit, have felt free to go ahead and carry out this extreme malign activity in friendly countries. That’s been a shock.”

To varying degrees, each of the four operations linked to the unit attracted public attention, even as it took time for the authorities to confirm that they were connected. Western intelligence agencies first identified the unit after the failed 2016 coup in Montenegro, which involved a plot by two unit officers to kill the country’s prime minister and seize the Parliament building.

But officials began to grasp the unit’s specific agenda of disruption only after the March 2018 poisoning of Mr. Skripal, a former G.R.U. officer who had betrayed Russia by spying for the British. Mr. Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, fell grievously ill after exposure to a highly toxic nerve agent, but survived.

(Three other people were sickened, including a police officer and a man who found a small bottle that British officials believe was used to carry the nerve agent and gave it to his girlfriend. The girlfriend, Dawn Sturgess, died after spraying the nerve agent on her skin, mistaking the bottle for perfume.)

The poisoning led to a geopolitical standoff, with more than 20 nations, including the United States, expelling 150 Russian diplomats in a show of solidarity with Britain.

Ultimately, the British authorities exposed two suspects, who had traveled under aliases but were later identified by the investigative site Bellingcat as Colonel Chepiga and Alexander Mishkin. Six months after the poisoning, British prosecutors charged both men with transporting the nerve agent to Mr. Skripal’s home in Salisbury, England, and smearing it on his front door.

But the operation was more complex than officials revealed at the time.


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## 2hats (Oct 10, 2019)

Spoiler: Full text part 2



Exactly a year before the poisoning, three Unit 29155 operatives traveled to Britain, possibly for a practice run, two European officials said. One was Mr. Mishkin. A second man used the alias Sergei Pavlov. Intelligence officials believe the third operative, who used the alias Sergei Fedotov, oversaw the mission.

Soon, officials established that two of these officers — the men using the names Fedotov and Pavlov — had been part of a team that attempted to poison the Bulgarian arms dealer  Emilian Gebrev in 2015. (The other operatives, also known only by their aliases, according to European intelligence officials, were Ivan Lebedev, Nikolai Kononikhin, Alexey Nikitin and Danil Stepanov.)

The team would twice try to kill Mr. Gebrev, once in Sofia, the capital, and again a month later at his home on the Black Sea.

Speaking to reporters in February at the Munich Security Conference, Alex Younger, the chief of MI6, Britain’s foreign intelligence service, spoke out against the growing Russian threat and hinted at coordination, without mentioning a specific unit.

“You can see there is a concerted program of activity — and, yes, it does often involve the same people,” Mr. Younger said, pointing specifically to the Skripal poisoning and the Montenegro coup attempt. He added: “We assess there is a standing threat from the G.R.U. and the other Russian intelligence services and that very little is off limits.”

The Kremlin sees Russia as being at war with a Western liberal order that it views as an existential threat.

At a ceremony in November for the G.R.U.’s centenary, Mr. Putin stood beneath a glowing backdrop of the agency’s logo — a red carnation and an exploding grenade — and described it as “legendary.” A former intelligence officer himself, Mr. Putin drew a direct line between the Red Army spies who helped defeat the Nazis in World War II and officers of the G.R.U., whose “unique capabilities” are now deployed against a different kind of enemy.

“Unfortunately, the potential for conflict is on the rise in the world,” Mr. Putin said during the ceremony. “Provocations and outright lies are being used and attempts are being made to disrupt strategic parity.”

In 2006, Mr. Putin signed a law legalizing targeted killings abroad, the same year a team of Russian assassins used a radioactive isotope to murder Aleksander V. Litvinenko, another former Russian spy, in London.

Unit 29155 is not the only group authorized to carry out such operations, officials said. The British authorities have attributed  Mr. Litvinenko’s killing to the Federal Security Service, the intelligence agency once headed by Mr. Putin that often competes with the G.R.U.


Although little is known about Unit 29155 itself, there are clues in public Russian records that suggest links to the Kremlin’s broader hybrid strategy.

A 2012 directive from the Russian Defense Ministry assigned bonuses to three units for “special achievements in military service.” One was Unit 29155. Another was Unit 74455, which was involved in the 2016 election interference. The third was Unit 99450, whose officers are believed to have been involved in the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula in 2014.

A retired G.R.U. officer with knowledge of Unit 29155 said that it specialized in preparing for “diversionary” missions, “in groups or individually — bombings, murders, anything.”

“They were serious guys who served there,” the retired officer said. “They were officers who worked undercover and as international agents.”

Photographs of the unit’s dilapidated former headquarters, which has since been abandoned, show myriad gun racks with labels for an assortment of weapons, including Belgian FN-30 sniper rifles, German G3A3s, Austrian Steyr AUGs and American M16s. There was also a form outlining a training regimen, including exercises for hand-to-hand combat. The retired G.R.U. officer confirmed the authenticity of the photographs, which were published by a Russian blogger.

The current commander, General Averyanov, graduated in 1988 from the Tashkent Military Academy in what was then the Soviet Republic of Uzbekistan. It is likely that he would have fought in both the first and second Chechen wars, and he was awarded a Hero of Russia medal, the country’s highest honor, in January 2015. The two officers charged with the Skripal poisoning also received the same award.

Though an elite force, the unit appears to operate on a shoestring budget. According to Russian records, General Averyanov lives in a run-down Soviet-era building a few blocks from the unit’s headquarters and drives a 1996 VAZ 21053, a rattletrap Russia-made sedan. Operatives often share cheap accommodation to economize while on the road. British investigators say the suspects in the Skripal poisoning stayed in a low-cost hotel in Bow, a downtrodden neighborhood in East London.

But European security officials are also perplexed by the apparent sloppiness in the unit’s operations. Mr. Skripal survived the assassination attempt, as did Mr. Gebrev, the Bulgarian arms dealer. The attempted coup in Montenegro drew an enormous amount of attention, but ultimately failed. A year later, Montenegro joined NATO. It is possible, security officials say, that they have yet to discover other, more successful operations.

It is difficult to know if the messiness has bothered the Kremlin. Perhaps, intelligence experts say, it is part of the point.

“That kind of intelligence operation has become part of the psychological warfare,” said Eerik-Niiles Kross, a former intelligence chief in Estonia. “It’s not that they have become that much more aggressive. They want to be felt. It’s part of the game.”


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## Poi E (Oct 10, 2019)

So business as usual then.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2019)

i think i saw unit 29155 supporting ruddy yurts at the torrington in north finchley in 1996


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## 2hats (Jun 7, 2020)

Sunday Times claims government source has indicated that the Skripals have been relocated for a new life in New Zealand.


Spoiler: ST article



*Salisbury novichok poisonings: Sergei and Yulia Skripal move to New Zealand*
Caroline Wheeler, Deputy Political Editor
Sunday June 07 2020, 12.01am, The Sunday Times

The former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia have begun a new life in New Zealand, according to senior government sources.

A week before the broadcast of a BBC drama telling the story of those caught up in the novichok nerve agent attack in Salisbury in 2018, it has emerged that the pair have moved overseas after living for more than a year in an MI6 safe house. A senior government source with knowledge of the risk assessment carried out on the couple at the time of the move, said the Skripals had been given new identities and support to start a new life.

The pair were found unconscious on a park bench in Salisbury, Wiltshire, on March 4, 2018, after Russian agents smeared the deadly chemical on the door-handle of the former spy’s home. The bench has since been sent to Quantico, in Virginia, home of the FBI’s training and research centre, according to a senior member of the local emergency response team.

Dawn Sturgess, 44, died in July 2018 after handling a perfume bottle containing the poison. Yulia left hospital a month after the attack and was taken by the security services to a secret location. She was joined a month later by her father, a former double agent who had arrived in the UK as part of a spy-swap in 2010. The pair are unlikely to surface publicly again. However, Skripal remains in touch with his old neighbours Ross Cassidy and his wife Mo. In December the couple opened a Christmas card and were astonished to see it was from the Skripals. There was no return address. “It’s nice to know they are thinking of us,” said Cassidy in an interview with The Sunday Times Magazine. “But I don’t expect we’ll ever see them again.”

The Skripals were targeted by Anatoly Chepiga and Alexander Mishkin, who travelled to the UK under false names. Chepiga was a decorated colonel with the GRU, the Russian military intelligence service for which Skripal had been working when he was recruited by MI6 in the mid-1990s. Usually those involved in spy swaps are not targeted, so long as they fade into obscurity.

The Cassidys were astonished that the former double agent had not been given deeper cover after the poisoning with polonium of the Russian dissident Alexander Litvinenko in London in 2006. Skripal lived openly under his own name. “I’ll never for the life of me understand why they didn’t give him a pseudonym,” said Cassidy. Skripal never fully relaxed into his life in the UK, according to Cassidy, who described him as gregarious but also watchful and suspicious. He added that his neighbour often sat in an armchair with a clear view of the street. “Sergei saw you coming before you ever saw him,” he said.

A Home Office source said: “We do not comment on intelligence matters.”



So likely they are in a log cabin in northern Canada.


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## equationgirl (Jun 7, 2020)

2hats said:


> Sunday Times claims government source has indicated that the Skripals have been relocated for a new life in New Zealand.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: ST article
> ...


Yes, they may have been relocated, but I doubt to New Zealand.


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## cupid_stunt (Jun 10, 2020)

Heads-up, the three-part dramatisation 'The Salisbury Poisonings' is on BBC 1 this coming Sun., Mon. & Tue. at 9.00 pm.


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## not-bono-ever (Apr 20, 2021)

Pure: Ten Points I Just Can't Believe About the Official Skripal Narrative - Craig Murray. 


Craig Murray has doubts


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## rubbershoes (Apr 20, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> Pure: Ten Points I Just Can't Believe About the Official Skripal Narrative - Craig Murray.
> 
> 
> Craig Murray has doubts



He seems like a twat


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## teqniq (Sep 3, 2022)

UK Russian embassy trolling because they haven't got anything else:


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## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, they may have been relocated, but I doubt to New Zealand.


They're in port stanley


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