# Microsoft Surface 3 - 'laptop replacing' tablet



## editor (May 20, 2014)

Presentation stream here: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/388825/...nd-blog-watch-the-microsoft-launch-event-live







Here's what I've gleaned so far. It's looking pretty good. 





> Microsoft has unveiled the third generation of its Surface tablet/laptop hybrids, with the Surface 3 packing a 12 inch, 2160 x 1440 pixel display and an Intel Core i7 Haswell processor.
> 
> 
> Measuring 0.36 inches/9.1mm  thick and weighing 1.8 pounds, the Surface Pro 3 claims to be  “the thinnest Core PC ever made” with a Core i7 processor powering the device.
> ...


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

It's not going to be cheap, but the pen tech sure looks sweet.


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

That said, the applause is extraordinarily tame compared to the mass whooping of an Apple event.


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

There seems to be hints of the old Courier project here, with the focus on analogue and digital input.


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## BoxRoom (May 20, 2014)

Had to give up watching the stream. Other than frequent pauses as it buffers, if Panay says "super important" one more time I may scream.
I really don't like his presentation style at all, just really grates.

Will check on details of it later, looks pretty nice and everything though!


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## 8ball (May 20, 2014)

editor said:


> That said, the applause is extraordinarily tame compared to the mass whooping of an Apple event.


 
Maybe it's not very good.


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

Clicking the pen turns on the tablet. Nice!


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

8ball said:


> Maybe it's not very good.


Or maybe the room is just not stuffed full with rabid whooping screaming fanboys who find a modest boost in a device's RAM something worthy of an outbreak of mass cheering?

*I have to been to an Apple launch event


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## Corax (May 20, 2014)

editor said:


> That said, the applause is extraordinarily tame compared to the mass whooping of an Apple event.


I'm no Apple fan (or even Apple user) - but the circumspection on announcements from MS when it comes to anything other than their core business is understandable IMO.


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## 8ball (May 20, 2014)

editor said:


> Or maybe the room is just not stuffed full with rabid whooping screaming fanboys who find a modest boost in a device's RAM something worthy of an outbreak of mass cheering?
> 
> *I have to been to an Apple launch event


 
How much does it cost?


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

8ball said:


> How much does it cost?


That's the big question, but listening to the specs so far, it's not going to be cheap.


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## BoxRoom (May 20, 2014)

$799 according to one source.


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

Price starts at $799.....


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

They actually have the tablet available for journos to take home. So at least it's going to arrive soon.


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## 8ball (May 20, 2014)

editor said:


> Price starts at $799.....


 
So if translated into what you'd pay in pounds, and for a decent one, what's that, about £700?


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

8ball said:


> So if translated into what you'd pay in pounds, and for a decent one, what's that, about £700?


Not that high. More like from £570, I'd guess.


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## 8ball (May 20, 2014)

editor said:


> Not that high. More like from £570, I'd guess.


 
Yeah, I was trying to compensate for the 'from'. 
The 'from' is always the price for the one you don't really want.


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

Here's the full press blather: 


> NEW YORK — May 20, 2014 — On Tuesday, Microsoft Corp. introduced Surface Pro 3 — the lightweight tablet that packs the power and performance you expect from a laptop.
> 
> Surface Pro 3 is a tablet and a laptop: multiple processor, RAM and storage options intersect with a sleek design that, with a simple snap or click, transform the device from a perfectly balanced tablet to a full-functioning laptop and back again — all in a beautiful package that is 30 percent thinner than an 11-inch MacBook Air. Its stunning 12-inch display and new, continuous kickstand provide the screen real estate and multiple viewing angles people need for work and play. And the new Surface Pen — completely redesigned with form and function in mind — delivers a precise, luxurious drawing and note-taking experience with a single click of the pen.
> 
> ...


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## 8ball (May 20, 2014)

It's almost like they're nudging it towards graphic designers, but that lot are pretty Mac-obsessed (and I've not seen a tablety screen yet with sufficient colour fidelity for serious work, though cartoonists and stuff could find it useful).


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## Corax (May 20, 2014)

editor said:


> Not that high. More like from £570, I'd guess.


Caveated that I don't really know much about tablets - but I find the price range a bit baffling.  The Nexus is a cracking piece of kit IME, so what's the extra value that justifies tablets (not this one necessarily) that are 2 or 3 times the price?

I know there's a bigger price range with PCs etc, but that I can understand in terms of capability for gaming and graphic design (and photo/image work etc) stuff - neither of which are going to be the focus for a tablet in the same way.


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

Corax said:


> Caveated that I don't really know much about tablets - but I find the price range a bit baffling.  The Nexus is a cracking piece of kit IME, so what's the extra value that justifies tablets (not this one necessarily) that are 2 or 3 times the price?


With this one I imagine the premium comes because you're getting a very powerful machine - way more powerful than your comparatively weedy Nexus - and it will be able to run full blown Windows programs (like a 'proper' laptop). 

The screen will also be considerably better, there's full blown pen support too, and a keyboard, more ports etc.


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## Corax (May 20, 2014)

editor said:


> With this one I imagine the premium comes because you're getting a very powerful machine - way more powerful than your comparatively weedy Nexus - and it will be able to run full blown Windows programs (like a 'proper' laptop).
> 
> The screen will also be considerably better, there's full blown pen support too, and a keyboard, more ports etc.


See my edit - additional 3rd sentence.

Is that sentence wrong then? Are these designed for people to be doing full-blown graphic work on them?

And if so, wouldn't they still be better off using a machine with a full-size monitor?

ETA: That sounds as though it's snarky and rhetorical or something. It's not. Actual curiosity.


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## skyscraper101 (May 20, 2014)

They're clearly trying to pit this against the macbook air market and seem quite keen (judging by the photo below) to stress how much lighter the new surface is. Also note the price point at $799 is exactly $100 cheaper than the recently announced lower pricepont of the macbook airs at $899 (perhaps they're taking a leaf out of the xbox v playstaiton launch prices where MS were severely wrong footed).






For my money, while each generation of the surface does look increasingly more attractive in terms of it's specs and functionality, my main issue with it is always the form factor and this unstoppable drive to hybridise tablet and laptop. I'm not particularly sold on that as a concept, nor am I with this tiles experience of Windows 8, and I'm still yet to think why I need a laptop with touchscreen when a trackpad seems a lot less effort and keeps your screen free of smudges. Yet, I still want MS to have a proper competitor in the market because I think its good for innovation and ultimately good for the user, but I still want a laptop with a laptop form - i.e. a bottom heavy device with a light screen that I can angle to almost 180º - and one of the main issues I have with the surface is its top heavy tablet-screen that you can only angle as much as the kickstand allows and that means you're usually looking down on the thing. So if you're doing anything other than desktop work you're pretty much forced by default to use it as a tablet. That may suit some, but I prefer to have a keyboard at my fingers wherever I am (bed, sofa, lap..etc) and the kickstand just doesn't lend itself comfortably to those situations. I'm sure it'll be good for some people who need a windows device for use in an office and on the move as a tablet, but it's still not dong it for me.


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## 8ball (May 20, 2014)

They're just stumbling around until we have proper 3d holographic displays.


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## ruffneck23 (May 20, 2014)

If it's as heavy as the other surfaces it will fail.

We had some of the old ones to test to see if they were a viable business prospect, but they were too damn heavy.

Oh yeah and windows 8 , our strategy already to bypass 8 completely 

With any luck il get to play with one of these in the coming months


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## Ted Striker (May 20, 2014)

Has anyone asked if there will be a Windows 7 version/capability?


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

Ted Striker said:


> Has anyone asked if there will be a Windows 7 version/capability?


Hardly likely given the fact that W7 is not designed for a touchscreen.


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

Promo video


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## FridgeMagnet (May 20, 2014)

Corax said:


> Caveated that I don't really know much about tablets - but I find the price range a bit baffling.  The Nexus is a cracking piece of kit IME, so what's the extra value that justifies tablets (not this one necessarily) that are 2 or 3 times the price?
> 
> I know there's a bigger price range with PCs etc, but that I can understand in terms of capability for gaming and graphic design (and photo/image work etc) stuff - neither of which are going to be the focus for a tablet in the same way.


There are lots of things that you need power over and above what you get with tablets but don't really need a large screen for - say, Excel or MS Project. This is solidly for people in the business market who need laptop power but hate lugging laptops about. A lot of those people carry iPads specifically for that reason. The question is whether you can persuade enough people that they need this, of course, and whether it does actually perform well as a laptop rather than being a compromise, because laptops aren't _that_ heavy.


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## FridgeMagnet (May 20, 2014)

> You’ll love being able to carry a single device for your next class, workday or *weekend getaway*


Yeah, whenever I go away for the weekend to get away from it all I'm always thinking "this would be great if only I didn't have to carry my tablet and my laptop as well".


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

For the record, I'm currently looking for a smallish touchscreen laptop that has enough power to run Photoshop and moves loads of files about with ease. I'm not _that_ bothered if the screen detaches or not, but when I was recently away, I did begin to appreciate the ability to detach the screen and watch TV in bed.

If I had the cash I'd definitely get something like the Lenovo Helix.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 20, 2014)

It's like Dom Joly has joined Microsoft as a designer.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 20, 2014)

So the headline really is having given up on competing with the iPad Microsoft will now compete with the MacBook Air. In the shrinking non mobile computing market. Genius.


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's like Dom Joly has joined Microsoft as a designer.


Ah, I was wondering when the fanboy would arrive.


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## 8ball (May 20, 2014)

Aaaand we're off....


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## 8ball (May 20, 2014)




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## Lazy Llama (May 20, 2014)

So UK price is from £639inc VAT for the 64GB i3 version.
£1339 for a 256GB i7 model.
"Ships by 31/08/2014" for still 3 months away.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/Surface-Pro-3/productID.300212300


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## 8ball (May 20, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> So UK price is from £639inc VAT for the 64GB i3 version.
> £1339 for a 256GB i7 model.
> "Ships by 31/08/2014" for still 3 months away.
> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/Surface-Pro-3/productID.300212300


 
Coming to a Russian oligarch's kid near you soon...


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> So UK price is from £639inc VAT for the 64GB i3 version.
> £1339 for a 256GB i7 model.
> "Ships by 31/08/2014" for still 3 months away.
> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/Surface-Pro-3/productID.300212300


That's pretty damn pricey. The i5/128GB combo is a comparatively bearable £849 - pretty much what you'd pay for a premium laptop with similar specs.


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

Hands on video:


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## editor (May 20, 2014)

I quite liked this comment from a surprisingly smart Gizmodo piece. 


> This isn't an iPad you can toss a keyboard onto. This is a MacBook Air you can strip the keyboard from. And that makes all the difference.


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## editor (May 21, 2014)

Blimey. It has a standby life of a _year_.

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/microso...han-ever-but-can-the-third-time-be-the-charm/


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## skyscraper101 (May 21, 2014)

editor said:


> For the record, I'm currently looking for a smallish touchscreen laptop that has enough power to run Photoshop and moves loads of files about with ease. I'm not _that_ bothered if the screen detaches or not, but when I was recently away, I did begin to appreciate the ability to detach the screen and watch TV in bed.
> 
> If I had the cash I'd definitely get something like the Lenovo Helix.



Lenovo have the right idea on this I reckon. The ability to angle the screen properly when attached to the keyboard is crucial to the way I want to use it and only having a solid stand to stick it in like this works for me. MS clearly realised the original kick stand's shortcomings by redesigning the Surface 3with a more angle options, but is just too limiting for me.


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## mwgdrwg (May 21, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> So UK price is from £639inc VAT for the 64GB i3 version.
> £1339 for a 256GB i7 model.
> "Ships by 31/08/2014" for still 3 months away.
> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/Surface-Pro-3/productID.300212300



Plus the cost of the cover/keyboard?

eta: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msuk/en_GB/pdp/Surface-Pro-Type-Cover/productID.300212900

The keyboard in £109.99.

So the very very minimum spec machine with a keyboard is a stonking *£748.99, *which is only 1 penny cheaper than a £749 128GB MacBook Air, which has double the storage


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## 8ball (May 21, 2014)

Shit - I figured it must come with the keyboard ffs!


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## gabi (May 21, 2014)

whats the point of a tablet with a keyboard? why not just buy a macbook if you want a laptop? weird.


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## editor (May 21, 2014)

gabi said:


> whats the point of a tablet with a keyboard? why not just buy a macbook if you want a laptop? weird.


Maybe you should watch the video to see the clear differences. It may not be for you - and it's not for me, really - but Microsoft think that some people will enjoy being able to draw/sketch/make notes on the Surface, and they'll also like being able to choose which format suits them best for the job in hand.


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## editor (May 21, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> Lenovo have the right idea on this I reckon. The ability to angle the screen properly when attached to the keyboard is crucial to the way I want to use it and only having a solid stand to stick it in like this works for me. MS clearly realised the original kick stand's shortcomings by redesigning the Surface 3with a more angle options, but is just too limiting for me.


I'm put off by that stand too. The Lenovo Helix looks a far better machine to me. If I could afford it, I'd snap one up in an instant.


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## Crispy (May 21, 2014)

Good luck using that contraption on your actual lap.

If they're going to compare it to the Air (and other thin laptops), they've got to consider the way such machines are used - on airplane tables and laps in departure lounges, in bed, on tables, on sofas etc. The kickstand and clip-on keyboard are only really any good on a table.

That Lenovo looks a bit better. A proper hinge means it can sit in your lap. But all the weight is still in the lid, which makes it top heavy. You can sit in a comfy chair with your legs stretched out, put an Air (or similar thin laptop) on your thighs, sloping away from you, and still use it comfortably. The Helix would tip over. You can see they try and compensate for this by moving the hinge towards the keyboard. This shrinks the space available for the track pad (or increases the size of the device), whilst still only allowing a rather vertical screen angle before it topples backwards.

Laptops are better laptops than tablets with bits stuck on. Tablets are better tablets when they're light enough for one hand and not weighed down by a desktop operating system. Laptop/tablet hybrids continue to be compromises and continue to sell poorly. I don't see this one being any better.


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## 8ball (May 21, 2014)

gabi said:


> whats the point of a tablet with a keyboard? why not just buy a macbook if you want a laptop? weird.


 
Even without a lot of this functionality the Asus Transformer did pretty well.  If you don't really want a laptop (lots of people only really use their computers for emails, browsing, and a few other functions easily catered for with 'apps') but want to type some lengthy stuff it's pretty handy.


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## editor (May 21, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Good luck using that contraption on your actual lap.
> 
> If they're going to compare it to the Air (and other thin laptops), they've got to consider the way such machines are used - on airplane tables and laps in departure lounges, in bed, on tables, on sofas etc. The kickstand and clip-on keyboard are only really any good on a table.
> 
> ...


The Air is a fabulous machine - it it came with a touchscreen I'd consider getting one - but there are distinct advantages to tablet/laptop hybrids. Where the Air wins in its - to use Microsoft's hideous phrase - 'lapability' - it loses when it comes to the things that tablets are good for (reading in bed, making notes direct on the screen etc). 

Although not everyone sees it here, I remain convinced that touchscreen laptops and hybrids will continue to grow in popularity. After my time using the Asus - where I have barely touched the trackpad - I constantly find myself occasionally prodding a non touchscreen laptop. That's how intuitive it's become.


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## DRINK? (May 21, 2014)

Why have a laptop when you can buy an tablet .......add a keyboard, battery pack, pen, mouse, cover, external hard drive and connect it to a monitor.


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## editor (May 21, 2014)

Just to throw in a surprising headline from today: "Lenovo overtakes Apple in US PC sales for the first time"


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## Crispy (May 21, 2014)

They deserve it, Thinkpads are great.


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## DRINK? (May 21, 2014)

eh, thought thinkpads were IBM?


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## Crispy (May 21, 2014)

DRINK? said:


> eh, thought thinkpads were IBM?


They sold the laptop business to lenovo in2005


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## c01642 (May 21, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Good luck using that contraption on your actual lap.
> 
> If they're going to compare it to the Air (and other thin laptops), they've got to consider the way such machines are used - on airplane tables and laps in departure lounges, in bed, on tables, on sofas etc. The kickstand and clip-on keyboard are only really any good on a table.



I haven't had any problems using my surface on my lap or sat in bed playing Total War: Rome 2 and Skyrim and i don't see any problems with the helix.


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## skyscraper101 (May 21, 2014)

Crispy said:


> That Lenovo looks a bit better. A proper hinge means it can sit in your lap. But all the weight is still in the lid, which makes it top heavy. You can sit in a comfy chair with your legs stretched out, put an Air (or similar thin laptop) on your thighs, sloping away from you, and still use it comfortably. The Helix would tip over.



I suspected this may be the case but if you skip to 4:15 in the clip below, Lenovo seem to have compensated for it by counter balancing the screen - though obviously that does add weight to the device too so I still say the air is more comfortable to sit with.


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## editor (May 21, 2014)

I wish I hadn't watched that video now. I *really* want one of those Helix machines now, but they're blooming pricey.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 21, 2014)

8ball said:


> Aaaand we're off....



Heh not quite despite the Ed's typical wanker attitude I really don't think any thread is well served by feeding the troll.


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## FridgeMagnet (May 21, 2014)

oh leave it out


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## editor (May 21, 2014)

So the more I think about it, Surface is unlikely to do it for me on account of (a) I don't like that foldy leg thing (b) the flappy keyboard and (c) the immense price, even though I very much like its display, stylus control and clever functionality. 

The Helix is just about ticking every box for me, save that mighty price. I find it weird that the Helix hasn't got more press given that it looks to be a really well thought out hybrid.


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## skyscraper101 (May 21, 2014)

I agree the foldy leg and flappy keyboard does not make for sturdy lap and bed use, which is like 70% of what I'd need it for.


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## elbows (May 21, 2014)

I can see some use cases for this. But I won't be getting a tablet with a fan, since heat stuff & battery stuff are two things that made the iPad onwards era of tablet computing catch on in a way previous tablets did not. Eventually proper Intel CPUs may prove themselves to be a marvellous fit for these form factors, but I'll continue to be wary of assuming thats the case now. For now I'm more intrigued by how much grunt Apple and others are getting out of latest ARM hardware. Don't want to buy another iPad till Apple increase the RAM though, which they seem rather conservative about doing (should have done it with last years model in my opinion)


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## editor (May 21, 2014)

elbows said:


> I can see some use cases for this. But I won't be getting a tablet with a fan, since heat stuff & battery stuff are two things that made the iPad onwards era of tablet computing catch on in a way previous tablets did not. Eventually proper Intel CPUs may prove themselves to be a marvellous fit for these form factors, but I'll continue to be wary of assuming thats the case now. For now I'm more intrigued by how much grunt Apple and others are getting out of latest ARM hardware. Don't want to buy another iPad till Apple increase the RAM though, which they seem rather conservative about doing (should have done it with last years model in my opinion)


If you're running full programs and doing serious computing, you're going to need something like an i5/i7 chip, and for that you're going to need a fan in there somewhere. The one in the Helix is rather cunningly positioned, and Microsoft insist that the Surface one is silent.  The battery life on both machines seems very high.


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## c01642 (May 21, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> I agree the foldy leg and flappy keyboard does not make for sturdy lap and bed use, which is like 70% of what I'd need it for.



I find the keyboard works well in bed and if its in the way I just fold it back or remove it and use the on screen keyboard.


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## FridgeMagnet (May 21, 2014)

The fan on the Air kicks in seriously when you do anything unusual with it, like graphics or development work. It gets pretty hot too. With current technology I don't think there's a way of avoiding this if you want to access a certain level of power.


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## skyscraper101 (May 22, 2014)

c01642 said:


> I find the keyboard works well in bed and if its in the way I just fold it back or remove it and use the on screen keyboard.



Yeah but the angle is all wrong for how I would use it. Those images only reinforce why I wouldn't get one.


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## elbows (May 22, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The fan on the Air kicks in seriously when you do anything unusual with it, like graphics or development work. It gets pretty hot too. With current technology I don't think there's a way of avoiding this if you want to access a certain level of power.



Indeed there isn't. Which is why I'm very intrigued by the progress of ARM stuff in terms of performance. It's not going to match desktop or decent laptop performance, but it is reaching the point where some serious stuff is possible.


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## editor (May 22, 2014)

My Asus Transformer is great for almost all tasks but it's the time when a bit of power is needed is when the frustrations begin. If I'm away, I may take anything up to 2,000 photos (all around 8MB) and copying them over is a slow process. Although I can scroll through them, it's often slow with the odd crash, and tried to do anything but the most basic of edits becomes a fiddly task.

So although I would have no problem recommending something like an Asus as a main machine for people with really straightforward needs, I've realised that I need something with a bit more oomph for me (hence my initial interest in the Surface).


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 22, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The fan on the Air kicks in seriously when you do anything unusual with it, like graphics or development work. It gets pretty hot too. With current technology I don't think there's a way of avoiding this if you want to access a certain level of power.


The only time it comes on for me is when I do video format converting. The rest of the time (CAD projects, Logic or Pro Tools sessions) it's either off or so low I can't hear it.


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## FridgeMagnet (May 22, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The only time it comes on for me is when I do video format converting. The rest of the time (CAD projects, Logic or Pro Tools sessions) it's either off or so low I can't hear it.


Clearly you are not doing anything serious with them then, just messing about


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 22, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Clearly you are not doing anything serious with them then, just messing about


Clearly


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## elbows (May 22, 2014)

editor said:


> My Asus Transformer is great for almost all tasks but it's the time when a bit of power is needed is when the frustrations begin. If I'm away, I may take anything up to 2,000 photos (all around 8MB) and copying them over is a slow process. Although I can scroll through them, it's often slow with the odd crash, and tried to do anything but the most basic of edits becomes a fiddly task.
> 
> So although I would have no problem recommending something like an Asus as a main machine for people with really straightforward needs, I've realised that I need something with a bit more oomph for me (hence my initial interest in the Surface).



Yeah thats a pretty great example. The photo copying stuff probably hits numerous hardware bottlenecks (CPU, RAM, storage speed and bus speed), and possibly poor OS and/or software optimisation for that task as well.  

I have very little doubt that it won't be too many more generations of hardware before you experience much more pleasing performance in that regard.

The fiddly aspect is more of a concern. For image manipulation tasks I can well believe that getting a tablet with a brilliant stylus will more than solve half of that problem. The other half remains more of a concern to me, and its the apps themselves. As the grunt of tablets increases, one reason not to bring the sort of pro functionality people have got used to on the desktop/laptop gradually disappears. But other large factors remain, such as the size of the screen and, most worryingly, the huge difference in price between the desktop versions of apps and even the maximum people have been able to get away with charging for mobile apps. From a large development corporations point of view the unifying solution to this is probably the software by subscription model, but it remains unclear how much incentive they have to keep adding more pro features to their mobile apps.


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