# Can your employer make you take laptop home?



## hippogriff (Jun 27, 2008)

There is a group of people working shifts to provide 24/7 attendance in a section which, among other things, acts as a crisis control centre. The employer is now saying that all the staff must take their laptops home, so that in the event of the normal place of work being inaccessible at the time of a shift changeover, due to a fire alarm / security alert or whatever, they can relocate to an alternative site and work from there. 

Is it reasonable to expect the staff to hump laptops back and forth, and effectively store the employer's equipment at home, to provide emergency cover for the employer, or should the employer be providing the necessary equipment at an alternative site so that the staff only have to shift themselves?


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## scifisam (Jun 27, 2008)

Would it be possible to do your work from another computer at home?


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## Detroit City (Jun 27, 2008)

hippogriff said:


> Is it reasonable to expect the staff to hump laptops back and forth, and effectively store the employer's equipment at home,



if it is necessary for the job....yes.


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## hippogriff (Jun 27, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Would it be possible to do your work from another computer at home?



No. It's a case of people coming into work, finding the normal building inaccessible and shifting to another location as a group. The work can't be done remotely, you need to overhear what other people are dealing with.


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## hippogriff (Jun 27, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> if it is necessary for the job....yes.



It hasn't been deemed necessary for the past 17 years


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## Detroit City (Jun 27, 2008)

hippogriff said:


> It hasn't been deemed necessary for the past 17 years



well now it has been


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## elbows (Jun 27, 2008)

Well it would be rather a shame if the crisis control centre didnt have procedures in place to deal with a crisis of its own wouldnt it?


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## hippogriff (Jun 27, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> well now it has been



I'm only guessing here, but you may not be the expert on UK employment law I was looking for


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## elbows (Jun 27, 2008)

It doesnt sound unreasonable enough to me, cant think what employment law could come to your rescue, but Im not claiming to be any sort of expert.


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## hippogriff (Jun 27, 2008)

elbows said:


> Well it would be rather a shame if the crisis control centre didnt have procedures in place to deal with a crisis of its own wouldnt it?



True, but surely the employer should be putting a robust alternative location in place, rather than expecting the staff to be carrying laptops about all the time.


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## Detroit City (Jun 27, 2008)

hippogriff said:


> True, but surely the employer should be putting a robust alternative location in place, rather than expecting the staff to be carrying laptops about all the time.



the cost in creating a "robust alternative location" is a shit-load more than making you take your laptop home.

and there is a legitimate business need and it is not illegal or immoral. 

enjoy toting teh laptop around...


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## teuchter (Jun 27, 2008)

It seems unreasonable to me, if they expect you do this every day. Apart from anything else, what are you supposed to do if you want to go out somewhere after work? If you have to take the laptop home to leave it there before doing anything else, then for the time it takes you to do this, you are effectively "working" so you could argue that you should be paid for this time, or that it should be included within your hours. Like you say they should have them kept in another location, or they should give you a laptop to keep at home all the time for this purpose. That's just what i think though - i've no idea what the law says.


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## Limejuice (Jun 27, 2008)

What teuchter said^^

Also I would ask the employer what the insurance position is (both for transit and storage at home), and what the policy is about looking after the damn thing in transit, and about data security if it gets pinched. 

That is, do they expect staff to cover the risk of loss and to be accountable (punishable) if any confidential data gets lost? 

My own tuppence worth is that out-of-hours is your free time unless they pay you to be on standby or you're hauling the bugger on employer's time. 

If that's the case, they can ask you to have tools (vans, laptops, etc) to deal with out-of-hours emergencies. 

If not, they should find a way to ensure that remote working can continue in emergencies without imposing on your unpaid free time. Laptops are cheap, so they could give you one to keep at home, providing you synchronise it online every so often.


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## kabbes (Jun 27, 2008)

There's only one real way to test all this out -- refuse to do it and see what happens.  Seriously.  It's not like you really have anything to lose, other than any reputation for taking whatever you're given.  Make a fuss and let THEM prove to YOU that you have to do it.


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## trashpony (Jun 27, 2008)

If they force you to do it, you should one after the other lose them. 

Or do you have pull-along cases for your laptops? If not, insist on them. It's unacceptable for them to expect you to carry a heavy laptop home every evening.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 27, 2008)

I'd say to them that if they let me go home early so I could take the laptop home before having to go back out again and do the shopping then that's alright, but I'm buggered if I'm going to try and carry 6 bags of shopping on top of a laptop.

Also tell them you live in a high mugging area


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## Hocus Eye. (Jun 27, 2008)

Computers aren't that expensive these days.  The employer should have a backup set of machines ready installed in the alternative centre.  Laptops aren't ideal for all day working in any case even if placed on a desk at the correct height and with an adjustable chair to meet the H and S regulations.  Pcs are cheaper then laptops of equivalent power.  The company needs to get its wallet out.


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## The Groke (Jun 27, 2008)

We provide laptops to those staff that need to work from home or from other sites and offices on a regular basis.

This being the case, they are expected to take them with them the majority of the time. If they don't, we can only assume they do not need a laptop and thus replace it with a desktop.

If the terms of your job now require you to able to redeploy to an alternate place of work at a moments notice, then yes, why shoudn't you be required to take your laptop home?

If you are really struggling with it, then you should insist that you are provided with a smaller, lighter machine or as Trashy said, a more suitable bag. I personally find that the ruck-sack type laptop bags are the best.



trashpony said:


> It's unacceptable for them to expect you to carry a heavy laptop home every evening.



All that said, I still find it hard to believe that a generally able-bodied adult  could have any problems carrying a few Kgs of modern day laptop around, and have this argument with people at work on a regular basis.....


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## The Groke (Jun 27, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> if it is necessary for the job....yes.




I can't believe I am agreeing with DC....


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## kabbes (Jun 27, 2008)

It's not for you to say whether it is convenient or not for somebody to carry a laptop home with them.  It's for them to say.  This is a change in their working conditions and shouldn't just be brushed off because you personally wouldn't have a problem with it.


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## baldrick (Jun 27, 2008)

Swarfega said:


> We provide laptops to those staff that need to work from home or from other sites and offices on a regular basis.


but this is the point, they haven't once in 17 years been expected to work elsewhere yet their boss it telling them to take their laptop home with them every night.

it's unreasonable, totally unreasonable.


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## Santino (Jun 27, 2008)

This sounds like some half-arsed attempt to implement a disaster recovery policy, but it sounds rubbish. The likelihood of laptops getting left at home, lost, damaged and stolen regularly must represent a more significant risk than the slim chance of not being able to access the building one morning.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 27, 2008)

Swarfega said:


> All that said, I still find it hard to believe that a generally able-bodied adult could have any problems carrying a few Kgs of modern day laptop around, and have this argument with people at work on a regular basis.....


 

A few Kgs is pretty heavy when you're already carrying shopping, plus your handbag/shoulderbag etc.  

You could give them all trolleys of course and they'd have to put up with people cursing them for walking around with poncey trolleys


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## Schmetterling (Jun 27, 2008)

Limejuice said:


> What teuchter said^^
> 
> Also I would ask the employer what the insurance position is (both for transit and storage at home), and what the policy is about looking after the damn thing in transit, and about data security if it gets pinched.
> 
> ...



All the above plus: you'd be making yourself a mugging target.


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## Idaho (Jun 27, 2008)

Alex B said:


> This sounds like some half-arsed attempt to implement a disaster recovery policy, but it sounds rubbish. The likelihood of laptops getting left at home, lost, damaged and stolen regularly must represent a more significant risk than the slim chance of not being able to access the building one morning.



That's the best answer so far.


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## Gromit (Jun 27, 2008)

They shouldn't make you work at home without undertaking a Risk Assessment / Workstation Assessment of your home to ensure that it is fit for sustained work computer use.


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

Marius said:


> They shouldn't make you work at home without undertaking a Risk Assessment / Workstation Assessment of your home to ensure that it is fit for sustained work computer use.


Hi Marius, is that actually defined anywhere ? 

My home certainly wouldn't meet the workstation requirements (lighting & height for example) - would an employer be required to do that sort of thing unless it's the regular place of work - I'm interested because I work at home a lot - as do  a significant number of colleagues - but it isn't classed as a requirement of my job (LOL I could go into the office to do conference calls late at night but... it's a 2 hour journey by train/1.5 by car)

The last time I worked where it as a requirement for people - a Life Assurance firm, the company supplied & built offices for people like the reps so that would have been covered by that but that was well over 10 years ago and tbh I've not heard of anyone doing that kind of thing now


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

hippogriff said:


> No. It's a case of people coming into work, finding the normal building inaccessible and shifting to another location as a group. The work can't be done remotely, you need to overhear what other people are dealing with.


I'd suggest a calling tree so that most of the people concerned don't bother to come into work to find the building inaccessible - then they can go straight to the alternative location


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

hippogriff said:


> There is a group of people working shifts to provide 24/7 attendance in a section which, among other things, acts as a crisis control centre. The employer is now saying that all the staff must take their laptops home, so that in the event of the normal place of work being inaccessible at the time of a shift changeover, due to a fire alarm / security alert or whatever, they can relocate to an alternative site and work from there.
> 
> Is it reasonable to expect the staff to hump laptops back and forth, and effectively store the employer's equipment at home, to provide emergency cover for the employer, or should the employer be providing the necessary equipment at an alternative site so that the staff only have to shift themselves?



I have to be honest - I really can't see the huge issue with it all esp as you say it's only so that they can relocate - not nec that they will have to work at home. If working at home is a requirement then it might be different - hence why I've asked Marius for clarification of the H&S (I work at home a lot & enjoy it but it isn't in my job desc... I do it cause it's more convenient) 

Laptop backpacks are fine ime and as long as the employer's insurance covers them when they are out of the office, I can't see the problem...

But the 2nd point, yes in an ideal world - there should be an alternative site already set up and ready to be used but depending on how this is done, for example existing office kept empty or a site maintained by a Disaster Recovery specialist it can be a very expensive option for the company (I looked at DR options recently)

Maintaining an empty office (just in case) tends to look like a waste of money when people look at the space useage (especially in a large firm)

e2a:  Why do the people have/need the laptops now if they aren't mobile by the way ? Seriously, if this is burning people up, ask to have desktops now instead of the laptops... see if its the company requiring laptop useage or just the users wanting them


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## kabbes (Jun 27, 2008)

You don't need to maintain a second office.  There are disaster recovery companies that operate a single office in which they sell rights to the desks -- typically they sell about 12 rights for every desk.  They rely on it being very, very, VERY unlikely that more than one of their customers will simultaneously go down (I think they underestimate the accumulations of risk, but that is another issue), so that the chances of two people needing the same desk are negligable.

Hence, if you really need immediate access to a second site in the event of disaster, you can operate one for a 1/12th cost of the cost of actually running a second office.


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## Gromit (Jun 27, 2008)

Anywhere where your employer requires you to undertake work is subject to requirement of risk assessment. Even driving to and from other offices. Obviously the level of assessment depends upon how much time is spent in though environments. 

So if the employer requires or agrees that you spend a lot of time working at home then they have just as much duty of care to you there than they do in the office. They arent absolved of all responsabilty. 

Tgere should be something in the Management of Health and Safety Regs along these lines. It may use the language wherever the employer has an undertaking. Its been so long since I studied H+S though my exact knowledge of where in the regs it us is sketchy. 

If in any doubt ring the HSE helpline. They are a bit shit but should hopefully know the answer to this.


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

kabbes said:


> You don't need to maintain a second office.  There are disaster recovery companies that operate a single office in which they sell rights to the desks -- typically they sell about 12 rights for every desk.  They rely on it being very, very, VERY unlikely that more than one of their customers will simultaneously go down (I think they underestimate the accumulations of risk, but that is another issue), so that the chances of two people needing the same desk are negligable.
> 
> Hence, if you really need immediate access to a second site in the event of disaster, you can operate one for a 1/12th cost of the cost of actually running a second office.


Yep.... however, it can still be quite expensive at a per desk per month charge, also depending on additional services like IP phones, LAN/WAN links etc that will need to be there (sometimes included... sometimes not), so for a small/medium employer it can still be expensive

And (as you say above) they hope/rely that there won't be a disaster affecting multiple clients because if it does, then it's all first come first served on that type of arrangement  so to cover that, the customers would be looking at not using a local centre and having to travel elsewhere for the alternative services if they didn't get first call as it were

If they feel there is a significant likelihood of that happening - for example a whole business park's worth of clients going out - then they recommend keeping & paying for empty desks for you only "the dedicated service level" (which is what a number of the banks have done locally) & that's a significantly more expensive option !


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

Marius said:


> Anywhere where your employer requires you to undertake work is subject to requirement of risk assessment. Even driving to and from other offices. Obviously the level of assessment depends upon how much time is spent in though environments.
> 
> So if the employer requires or agrees that you spend a lot of time working at home then they have just as much duty of care to you there than they do in the office. They arent absolved of all responsabilty.
> 
> ...


Cheers Marius.... Interesting.. so I guess if anyone started asking questions, they could just say... you are required to come into work then ... hmm!


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 27, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> if it is necessary for the job....yes.



not in this country....it wouldn't be.

if this is part of your orignal contract to provide emergancy cover then it would be expected that your employer make reasonable adjustment to their working practice to accomidate this.

other wise it's a fundamental change in working practice... 

talk to your union...


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> not in this country....it wouldn't be.
> 
> if this is part of your orignal contract to provide emergancy cover then it would be expected that your employer make reasonable adjustment to their working practice to accomidate this.
> 
> ...


Thing is though, the OP was only about being asked to take a laptop home so it could be taken to another location rather than working at home unless I missed summat. apols if I did.. .. if it's requiring someone to work at home then I agree that that's a fundamental change but surely, taking equipment home so you can go to another location.. umm is that really a fundamental change to a contract as long as it's adequately insured ?

Although in ref to DC's post - I occasionally have to remind my US colleagues that we have different t&c of employment here so if they phone me off hours, then I can get paid for that time  which usually gets a response of "Wow- really?"


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 27, 2008)

GoneCoastal said:


> Thing is though, the OP was only about being asked to take a laptop home so it could be taken to another location rather than working at home unless I missed summat. apols if I did.. .. if it's requiring someone to work at home then I agree that that's a fundamental change but surely, taking equipment home so you can go to another location.. umm is that really a fundamental change to a contract as long as it's adequately insured ?
> 
> Although in ref to DC's post - I occasionally have to remind my US colleagues that we have different t&c of employment here so if they phone me off hours, then I can get paid for that time  which usually gets a response of "Wow- really?"


i would say that it's a fundamental change in working practice from wheny ou took on the job and were not previously have had to take a laptop home.  cahnges to working practice can be as minor as stopping buying teabags for the office kitchen it doesn't have to be you will now give your first born to the boss for them to feed upon... it can be minor but established practice of course it's not something that is worth the hassle of tribunal however a quick nod to the union should cover it.

i mean are they going to give staff and indeminty for havign work equipment off site in their homes which means there will be no detriment to them if it's lost stolen or accidentally broken?  Are they intending to provide some kind of insurance or increased salery to cover the potential of increased insurance premiums for having valueable office equipement at home?

how are they going to counter the increased risk of damage to the staffs property though malfunction or fire etc...


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## teuchter (Jun 27, 2008)

GoneCoastal said:


> but surely, taking equipment home so you can go to another location.. umm is that really a fundamental change to a contract as long as it's adequately insured ?



I think it's a fundamental change if you have to it every night because as I said earlier it would mean you can't go straight from work to somewhere where it wouldn't be sensible to be carrying a laptop around. If, say you work in the centre of town but live elsewhere, and then want to go out somewhere in the evening after, going all the way home and then coming back in, just to drop off the laptop, could eat an hour or two out of what otherwise would have been your free time.


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

teuchter said:


> I think it's a fundamental change if you have to it every night because as I said earlier it would mean you can't go straight from work to somewhere where it wouldn't be sensible to be carrying a laptop around. If, say you work in the centre of town but live elsewhere, and then want to go out somewhere in the evening after, going all the way home and then coming back in, just to drop off the laptop, could eat an hour or two out of what otherwise would have been your free time.


I usually just take my laptop in it's backpack out with me. It's insured so if it goes... it goes


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## kabbes (Jun 27, 2008)

GoneCoastal said:


> I usually just take my laptop in it's backpack out with me. It's insured so if it goes... it goes


Firstly, that might not be the case in the OP's instance.

Secondly, having to lug a backpack around is still encumbering you, which you might not appreciate.  It's up to each individual to decide how bothered they are by this -- not up to us to tell them how bothered they should be.


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## The Groke (Jun 27, 2008)

baldrick said:


> but this is the point, they haven't once in 17 years been expected to work elsewhere yet their boss it telling them to take their laptop home with them every night.
> 
> it's unreasonable, totally unreasonable.



So the policy has changed.

What is the problem?

As far as I undertstand it, the boss is not expecting them to do extra hours, but to be prepared to work from a different site or from home should the situation demand it.

Sounds like a whinge about nothing to me!

As I said, if the weight is a problem, then there are ways around it.....


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## The Groke (Jun 27, 2008)

Marius said:


> They shouldn't make you work at home without undertaking a Risk Assessment / Workstation Assessment of your home to ensure that it is fit for sustained work computer use.




Christ you don't work in H&S do you......


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## kabbes (Jun 27, 2008)

Swarfega said:


> So the policy has changed.
> 
> What is the problem?
> 
> ...


I regularly take a laptop home with me, and I think it is a PITA.  I don't like wearing a backback on the tube and you do notice the weight in a satchel-like bag.  I would resent being ORDERED to carry it every day.  Particularly if it really was for no good reason, such as in this case.

What happens if it is my only available terminal and I forget it one day?  Am I facing disciplinary action?


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

teuchter said:


> I think it's a fundamental change if you have to it every night because as I said earlier it would mean you can't go straight from work to somewhere where it wouldn't be sensible to be carrying a laptop around. If, say you work in the centre of town but live elsewhere, and then want to go out somewhere in the evening after, going all the way home and then coming back in, just to drop off the laptop, could eat an hour or two out of what otherwise would have been your free time.


Sorry - I do see what you mean but I just think the whole thing is, well nothing really major & should easy be worked round... on the occasions someone want to got out after work, leave the laptop there



kabbes said:


> Firstly, that might not be the case in the OP's instance.
> 
> Secondly, having to lug a backpack around is still encumbering you, which you might not appreciate.  It's up to each individual to decide how bothered they are by this -- not up to us to tell them how bothered they should be.



Yep..all true but how much of a fuss is it actually worth causing ? I'd say just take the things homw mostly & anyone wants to go out after work... on those occasions, just leave them at work...


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## christonabike (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm pretty sure the OP has got the wrong end of the stick as no employer would expect people to take a laptop home every evening

Some folks go out every night and would not be expected to lump it around, and it'd only take a few misplaced ones to show the lunacy of the idea

Maybe store a laptop at home is what they mean?


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

kabbes said:


> I regularly take a laptop home with me, and I think it is a PITA.  I don't like wearing a backback on the tube and you do notice the weight in a satchel-like bag.  I would resent being ORDERED to carry it every day.  Particularly if it really was for no good reason, such as in this case.
> 
> What happens if it is my only available terminal and I forget it one day?  Am I facing disciplinary action?


Well I got drinks all over mine & it had to be replaced.. no issues at all!

Seriously though to the first part. Are you required by your job to use a laptop as opposed to a desktop or do you just request one ?

Reason I ask is that if it's not really needed to *actually do* your job, have a desktop instead  Problem solved  

(Unless of course you use the work laptop in the evenings to surf & do personal email etc  )


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## Gromit (Jun 27, 2008)

Swarfega said:


> Christ you don't work in H&S do you......


 
Used to, about 4 years ago. Don't have the proffesional letters after my name any more as I stopped paying the membership fees.

I used to undertake DSE assessments for all our home users as well as those in the offices suffering WRULDs. 
Was a great little skive out the office and even took me as far as Grimsby.

Gutted I never got to assess our users in Japan, New York and Hawaii. I had to deal with our Dutch offices remotely and pay a contractor 

H&S has a bad rep caused by organisations using it as an excuse for things when H&S advisors would suggest much more common sense measures. I enjoyed H&S but its a thankless, under-resourced area of work where you are continually banging your head up against management brick walls until the envitable happens. Only when its too late are you taken seriously.


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

christonabike said:


> I'm pretty sure the OP has got the wrong end of the stick as no employer would expect people to take a laptop home every evening
> 
> Some folks go out every night and would not be expected to lump it around, and it'd only take a few misplaced ones to show the lunacy of the idea
> 
> Maybe store a laptop at home is what they mean?


500+ people on the site where I work (1800+ in the UK) .... quite a lot do have laptops and they do get taken home every night... this is why I'm a bit surprised... it doesn't seem to cause anyone at my place any major inconveniences  ... at least I haven't heard of any complaints yet.... most folks come to work by car so it goes in the boot (out of town business park) I appreciate people might find it different in London say, but even so I do work there sometimes & I have to commute to the office when I go in & a backpack has never bothered me yet...

I keep editing when I spot I've made a spelling mistake grr!  sorry


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## christonabike (Jun 27, 2008)

You're all geeks then

At our place, 500 people go out in Central London on the piss every night


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 27, 2008)

GoneCoastal said:


> I usually just take my laptop in it's backpack out with me. It's insured so if it goes... it goes


 

But is there any private information on there that could be accessed? 

There's been enough security breaches already re personal data, and no doubt because people have gone for a drink after work and been made to carry their laptops with them


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## christonabike (Jun 27, 2008)

Same here

There would be loads of sensitive data that others could use on it


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## Gromit (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah thats a big issue at the moment, as discussed at the recent eCrime Conference I attended earlier this month. Feel free to watch the videos if you missed it.

God I sound boring. First H&S and then ICT security Conferences.


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## jonead (Jun 27, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> i would say that it's a fundamental change in working practice from wheny ou took on the job and were not previously have had to take a laptop home.  ...



one might point out that 17 years ago (as the OP cites), being required to a laptop home wouldn't have been an option ...

just out of interest, does _any_ change constitute a "change in working practice"?

-  a devp team moving from rational to agile?
-  changing the office email client from notes to outlook?
-  moving to a different floor?

just curious really ...


eta :

my experience with taking laptops home is that employers have borne the responsibility for providing insurance, means of securing sensitive data (pgp whole disk encryption ftw), bags, and any other gubbins.


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> But is there any private information on there that could be accessed?
> 
> There's been enough security breaches already re personal data, and no doubt because people have gone for a drink after work and been made to carry their laptops with them


Nope because it's against security policy to have data on the laptops.. All data has to be on the network (disciplinary if not) ... laptops are not backed up.... it's also no data on desktops too... all on the network.... when working from home I am connected to the network


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

jonead said:


> eta :
> 
> my experience with taking laptops home is that employers have borne the responsibility for providing insurance, means of securing sensitive data (pgp whole disk encryption ftw), bags, and any other gubbins.


Same !


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## likesfish (Jun 27, 2008)

arrange to be "mugged" for laptop 
 then depending on how confidential the stuff on the laptop is watch as management sweat.
 added bonuses send emails demanding ransom for the hardrive.
 someobdy really isn't thinking things through


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## kabbes (Jun 27, 2008)

I used to lug my laptop around out of choice, because I wanted to use it to work from home.  It was still a pain though.  (Now, we are all thin client, so I just access the server directly from my home PC -- no need for the laptop!)

I repeat -- for some people, it might be no big deal.  But if somebody says that it is a big deal for them, you should respect that.  If they think that it *is* worth fighting about, that is for them to decide.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 27, 2008)

jonead said:


> one might point out that 17 years ago (as the OP cites), being required to a laptop home wouldn't have been an option ...
> 
> just out of interest, does _any_ change constitute a "change in working practice"?
> 
> ...


anything which alters the contract of employment or agreed terms and conditions or exisitng work place culture which the employee feels is a detriment to them or their existing conditions... (technically it might also be something which of benefit to them however I've never had anyone wanting to start greivence proceedures for getting better/benifical working conditions).

so changing software on a pc no stopping providing coffee for employees yes.


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

kabbes said:


> I used to lug my laptop around out of choice, because I wanted to use it to work from home.  It was still a pain though.  (Now, we are all thin client, so I just access the server directly from my home PC -- no need for the laptop!)
> 
> I repeat -- for some people, it might be no big deal.  But if somebody says that it is a big deal for them, you should respect that.  If they think that it *is* worth fighting about, that is for them to decide.


The first part - I suspect we'll be the same before long .... although I think we'll still have laptops for the mobility aspect... 

The 2nd bit is - I do certainly appreciate it might be an issue for others & yup if people want to fight it - that's their choice... just that to me (as I said before... to me only) it's a non issue.... although... tbf... the days of me going out straight after work are fairly well gone  .. well, except the odd leaving do maybe


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> anything which alters the contract of employment or agreed terms and conditions or exisitng work place culture which the employee feels is a detriment to them or their existing conditions... (technically it might also be something which of benefit to them however I've never had anyone wanting to start greivence proceedures for getting better/benifical working conditions).
> 
> so changing software on a pc no stopping providing coffee for employees yes.


Does something become an implied benefit under the heading of workplace culture I wonder ?

For example we have a canteen that (I think) is subsidised a bit though not by the employer .. but we also have vending machines that are free for coffee & tea. If they were removed, would that constitute a change ? It took ages to get them installed - always used to have to pay 

There was talk at one time that free coffee/tea could be considered a benefit in kind - anyone know if that's still the case ?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 27, 2008)

GoneCoastal said:


> Does something become an implied benefit under the heading of workplace culture I wonder ?
> 
> For example we have a canteen that (I think) is subsidised a bit though not by the employer .. but we also have vending machines that are free for coffee & tea. If they were removed, would that constitute a change ? It took ages to get them installed - always used to have to pay
> 
> There was talk at one time that free coffee/tea could be considered a benefit in kind - anyone know if that's still the case ?



yeah basically if it was a detriment to the work place then yes... you'd be suprised how many people are preparred to go absolutly postal over free tea or coffee at work being removed let alone wanting to take it all the way up to god if necessary... 

if they removed the tea and coffee then there would be a detriment to the accepted working conditions.... (unless they of course replaced it with beer and wine or soft drinks etc...) it affects only in a minor way, but still, the conditions you have been employed unders...


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## teuchter (Jun 27, 2008)

GoneCoastal said:


> tbf... the days of me going out straight after work are fairly well gone  ..



There you go, then, that's why it seems like a non-issue to you, but it might not to others.

Just like having to stay an hour or so later than official hours now and again is fairly much a non-issue to me but not to those with families to get home to or whatever.


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## GoneCoastal (Jun 27, 2008)

teuchter said:


> There you go, then, that's why it seems like a non-issue to you, but it might not to others.
> 
> Just like having to stay an hour or so later than official hours now and again is fairly much a non-issue to me but not to those with families to get home to or whatever.


Touche  *Admits defeat*


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## equationgirl (Jun 27, 2008)

The company should be providing you with a suitable backpack or rolling case if they expect you to be carrying it backwards and forwards all the time.

Swarfega, if you don't already have back problems, carrying a laptop round all the time would soon cause them if it wasn't it a proper bag or trolleycase, and if you don't have a car it's impossible to do the shopping/errands whilst carrying one.

I'd also want to know about the insurance situation, and proper data security. If I were to get mugged I wouldn't want to be forking out the excess for a laptop owned by the company.


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