# [Wed 30th Nov 2011] Public Sector Strike, 30th November (UK)



## BigTom (Nov 18, 2011)

Since all but one union has now declared, I figure it was the right time to start a thread on this..
25 Unions to take strike action < all the ballot results are in there.

Mostly pretty impressive - 70-85% voting yes.

In Birmingham there's going to be local rallies, and a Teach Out at Birmingham University, with a TUC organised march through the city centre assembling at 11:30 at Lionel Street car park and going to an indoor rally at the NIA.

False Economy look to be collating a good list of events around the UK.

Should be a big day.. not that one day of strikes is going to do much, but the size of it is impressive.

 I forgot to set the date, hopefully a mod will pick that up or I'll edit it once it's approved


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## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2011)

My next signing day happens to fallo on the 30th but they aren't opening so I don't have to go and sign.

Thankyou, union barons.


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## BigTom (Nov 18, 2011)

Brilliant - whatever else happens, the day is already a success!


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## machine cat (Nov 18, 2011)

Impressive figures from those who bothered to vote but what's the mood in the workplaces? Out of fifteen people in my department only 5 of us are unionised. The rest either don't care about what happens to their pensions or are pro-cuts.


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## Mapped (Nov 18, 2011)

There's a few in my team who aren't joining in. Most of us are unionised and striking though, including the boss.


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## shaun balls (Nov 18, 2011)

Of a department staff of about 30, a fair chunk, and the more vocal chunk, are 20-something (generally homeowning) skilled graduates. There is no union culture of any sort, the politics in the place are reactionary. None of the younger staff have the remotest idea of how industrial action works, believing that to even respond to a ballot is absurd because striking _would get you fired, duh! _Yet unionisation is over 50% (maybe even 70%), though has nothing whatsoever to do with labour-organisation.

I'd be very pleasantly surprised if more than 4 voted. Or if more than 3, including myself, voted Yes. Political acts or active defense of conditions is fully alien to everyone here, and knackers like



			
				Unite Health said:
			
		

> We intend to call action for November 30, 2011 and you should, therefore, contact your HR Director asap to let them know you will be taking part in the action.


doesn't help. The vast majority will ignore the strike, and decry strikers. Let grudges commence.


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## machine cat (Nov 18, 2011)

shaun balls said:


> The vast majority will ignore the strike, and decry strikers. Let grudges commence.



The weird thing about my office is that most people are against the changes to pensions but refuse to join the union, strike and go and do something.

However, I have managed to organise a picket outside our building


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 21, 2011)

Just thought I'd share this brainfart that Guardian freelancer and occasional Manchester Mule "journalist" Lisa Ansell has spunked out onto the interwebs. Check out the comments for my own hilarious and edgy take on things.



> http://lisaansell.posterous.com/the-irony-of-middle-class-lefties-shouting-sc
> 
> *The irony of middle class lefties shouting scab*
> 
> ...



Call me a politically correct boy scout but I find some of the things mentioned here a bit offensive.


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## frogwoman (Nov 21, 2011)

that's a good reply.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> that's a good reply.



Cheers, I'm amazed that the Manchester Mule is letting her work for them to be honest, I know a lot of people involved in that I'm gonna have to e-mail 'em tomorrow coz she's a maniac.


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## frogwoman (Nov 21, 2011)

the comments make her sound demented. the post from that other guy who was a teacher was a lot more balanced and while i dont agree with what he was doing at least he wasn't aggressive and tried to see both sides of the arguement.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> the comments make her sound demented. the post from that other guy who was a teacher was a lot more balanced and while i dont agree with what he was doing at least he wasn't aggressive and tried to see both sides of the arguement.



I totally agree, I don't agree either but they had a point worth debating. And the best bit was when he said "nice to see another Huddersfield Town fan" and she replied to him "No, No it's not nice!" which is pretty crazy to be honest. But looking at her blog she seems like a bit of a mentalist, and if she's encouraging and defending scabbing then she needs to be outed, coz in the middle of a major dispute like this defending scabs is totally out of order. She needs dis-owning by the left, like that O'Neill character from Spiked was.


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## frogwoman (Nov 21, 2011)

Yeah I saw that, that was mental!  Was she actualy encouraging people to scab though? As far as i could tell she was just complaining that it was a form of bullying etc.


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## frogwoman (Nov 21, 2011)

Oh and "the women that the left have been marginalising all year" wtf?


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 21, 2011)

Her argument sort of drifts from being "we shouldn't call people scab because it's bullying" which is one thing, to then being "we shouldn't object to scabbing at all because it's actually justifiable" which is another totally seperate issue she seems to have conflated. Now whether or not you think shouting the word "scab" at someone's who trying to break a strike constitutes bullying is a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact, and its her opinion. She's a very small minority with that opinion too, and seems a bit shocked that she's getting so much criticism, but I'm putting that down to a massive ego. I mean look at that profile pic for gods sake, she fucking loves herself.


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## BigTom (Nov 21, 2011)

I saw that piece after reading the Truth, Reason & Liberty blogpost about it.  I read through some of the comments, thought your first one was very good, but she just refuses to engage, shouting troll etc., so I just stopped reading.  The piece itself is god awful.  I think there is a fair point to be made about bullying/machoism/patriachy in unions, but this isn't it.
TRL also makes an excellent point about the middle-class adventure activists:


> It is the middle class liberals who tell us in the Occupy protests that the cops are on side, or whose idea of anti-fascism is holding a placard and chanting, and likewise their response to a strike will be detached and academic. The people you see yelling scab are the same ones you see fighting the fascists and physically repelling the cops - the pissed off working class, whose jobs and lives are on the line and who just don't want to put up with this shit any more.


wrt Voice the "union", this piece on Bright Green Scotland is very good


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## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2011)

(Ansell= labour party shill. Why is she writing for that mule?

She should be liking all these cuts given that she runs a business that depends on ongoing tranches of unemployment - she runs (or ran - it seems to have failed)  a business based on recruiting desperate just unemployed skilled workers and selling them to business at rates that undercut larger commercial agencies.)

Enough about her anyway.


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## smokedout (Nov 21, 2011)

she should go back to radio 1


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## peterkro (Nov 21, 2011)

Good grief,a train wreck visible in all its detail.You'd think most people using a Blackberry would take the few seconds required to turn off the signature advertising RIM and O2 if only to stop themselves appearing as a complete twat.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> (Ansell= labour party shill. Why is she writing for that mule?
> 
> She should be liking all these cuts given that she runs a business that depends on ongoing tranches of unemployment - she runs (or ran - it seems to have failed) a business based on recruiting desperate just unemployed skilled workers and selling them to business at rates that undercut larger commercial agencies.)
> 
> Enough about her anyway.



Oh wow does she really? I never knew that.

Y'see this is what I find offensive, I'm working class, I live on minimum wage and charitiable handouts, and yet and I'm being called a "Middle-class trustafarian" via someone's £200 BlackBerry just because I won't defend scabbing? It's mental. I'm not defending scabs, its the people who go on strike and who are on the recieving end of abuse for doing so I feel inclined to defend. Those who are scabbing are looking after themselves, not anyone else, why does that deserve our sympathy.

I think it's just pure ego, she just can't let it go that she was wrong and so she's digging in even more and making herself sound demented into the bargain.


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## shaun balls (Nov 21, 2011)

I'd fucking kiss you, Delroy. I've just had a 'middle class trustafarian' call strikers ' just _bad_ people' to what was tantamount to a round of applause & thought I was going to throw a proper wobbler, your responses to whatsherface calmed me down.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 21, 2011)

We've got to stamp this kind of shit out, there's a lot of new kids getting involved in Occupy and other movements who are going to end up thinking that scabbing is not only justifiable, but some kind of noble gesture, if this shit goes unchallenged.

And I've just spend the whole day digging up info on her and yeah, trust me, she's a sociopath with the most apocalyptic vainity I've seen off a journo in years. I think she's fucking dangerous, we need to expose her, people like her will drag this strike down if we let them get away with it.


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## dynamicbaddog (Nov 21, 2011)




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## treelover (Nov 21, 2011)

'And I've just spend the whole day digging up info on her and yeah, trust me, she's a sociopath with the most apocalyptic vainity I've seen off a journo in years. I think she's fucking dangerous, we need to expose her, people like her will drag this strike down if we let them get away with it.'

sense of proportion, her blog is probably read by a few hundred..


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## treelover (Nov 21, 2011)

some of the singers in the video look familiar..


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## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> We've got to stamp this kind of shit out, there's a lot of new kids getting involved in Occupy and other movements who are going to end up thinking that scabbing is not only justifiable, but some kind of noble gesture, if this shit goes unchallenged.
> 
> And I've just spend the whole day digging up info on her and yeah, trust me, she's a sociopath with the most apocalyptic vainity I've seen off a journo in years. I think she's fucking dangerous, we need to expose her, people like her will drag this strike down if we let them get away with it.


2 seconds. Don't need a day.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 21, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'And I've just spend the whole day digging up info on her and yeah, trust me, she's a sociopath with the most apocalyptic vainity I've seen off a journo in years. I think she's fucking dangerous, we need to expose her, people like her will drag this strike down if we let them get away with it.'
> 
> sense of proportion, her blog is probably read by a few hundred..



Yeah you've got a point but she's also writing for the Machester Mule, which is a paper I used to be tangentally involved with, and if that's true then what a fucking embarassment. It would be awful if that paper were to end up becoming a platform for her sub-Sunny Hundal style pro-scab propaganda.

And she's also got a really bad history of bullying and intimidation, which was why she got the sack when was a social worker, and why she got sacked from that horrible employment agency she tried to set up. Honestly, I can't say any more now, I need to plan this all out properly, but you'll be shocked once you know what I know.


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## dynamicbaddog (Nov 22, 2011)

treelover said:


> some of the singers in the video look familiar..


you can download it here for 99p.
Let's try get it  in the i-tunes chart


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 22, 2011)

Would anyone mind having a quick skim through my comments on this website and see if any of them would constitute abusive and/or threatening behaviour?

I'm pretty sure they don't, and I've gone out of my way to re-assure the nutcase that i'm not interested in her on a personal level, but I'd be grateful for a second opinion.

http://lisaansell.posterous.com/

http://lisaansell.posterous.com/main-complaints-from-leftys-since-scabgate


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## marty21 (Nov 22, 2011)

can't read that at work for some reason Delroy - was reading her twitter profile earlier - she has a few fanboys - who basically kiss her arse - and say things like - if anyone says that word Scab in my time-line I will unfollow and block - big fucking deal


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## Mr.Bishie (Nov 22, 2011)

Well said Del. Those who cross pickets should be labelled scabs. Union members who cross pickets should be tossed onto a bonfire.


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## peterkro (Nov 22, 2011)

The woman is delusional,there is nothing even vaguely threatening in your replies and certainly nothing the police would bother with.I'm not sure that engaging with a clear loon will achieve anything however.(or her equally loony supporters)


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## BigTom (Nov 22, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Would anyone mind having a quick skim through my comments on this website and see if any of them would constitute abusive and/or threatening behaviour?
> 
> I'm pretty sure they don't, and I've gone out of my way to re-assure the nutcase that i'm not interested in her on a personal level, but I'd be grateful for a second opinion.
> 
> ...


 


> Seriously Lisa oh my god all your prior sins will come back to haunt you now. You are a massive bully who screams and shouts and swears at anyone who dares to disagree with you.
> 
> You won't bully me lisa, I'm not easily scared by self-important morons like you, and now the EDL have collapse I've got plenty of free time to spend on you.



This could be read as threatening.. especially if she thinks you are an AFA type 

But no, not really.. she's far worse than you I think.. lol at being called a tribal labourite for supporting the strikes.. I have literally no idea how realpengy arrived at that conclusion.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 22, 2011)

Hahaha

one of her fanboys said to me "I curate an essay series on prejudice in punk and hardcore and have raised £1500 for charity this year. Get fucked." which just reminded me of the end-bit of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVmmYMwFj1I I couldn't help but laugh my tits off when I saw that.

"I organize a vegan krunk night"


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> This could be read as threatening.. especially if she thinks you are an AFA type
> 
> But no, not really.. she's far worse than you I think.. lol at being called a tribal labourite for supporting the strikes.. I have literally no idea how realpengy arrived at that conclusion.



Yeah you're right on that, it could be construed as threatening, I didn't mean it to be at the time, but after that I made a conscious decision to try and be a bit more conciliatory and make it absolutely clear that I have no interest in bullying anyone and I even apologised for any offence caused. For all her faults I don't want her to be feeling threatened or abused.

Incidentally some of the things she's called me are clearly harassment and breaking the law.

Read this

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/33/section/154

Then this



> Malicious Communications Act 1988 section 1
> _(This is the wording of this section as amended by Section 43 Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001. It applies to offences committed from the 11th May 2001 onwards)_
> (1) Any person who sends to another person
> (a) a letter, electronic communication or article of any description which conveys
> ...



Now looking at some of the swearing and abusive things she's said to me on that blog, that she's far more guilty of breaking the law than I am. Would it be incredibly petty of me to get in touch with the police over this?

There's also an ongoing investigation into lisa ansell systematicall blackmailing someone, which obviously I'm not going to mention, because she's innocent 'til proven guilty at the end of the day and I don't want to prejudice anything.

Tell you what though, there's a good fucking story in all this somewhere, and I'd love to be the one to write it. I got e-mailed by a load of complete random strangers all telling me they've been victims of the same of shit that I'm now getting put through, so I'm thinking perhaps it's a good idea for us all to get together and launch a joint legal action or something? Any advice?


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## BigTom (Nov 22, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Now looking at some of the swearing and abusive things she's said to me on that blog, that she's far more guilty of breaking the law than I am. Would it be incredibly petty of me to get in touch with the police over this?
> 
> There's also an ongoing investigation into lisa ansell systematicall blackmailing someone, which obviously I'm not going to mention, because she's innocent 'til proven guilty at the end of the day and I don't want to prejudice anything.
> 
> Tell you what though, there's a good fucking story in all this somewhere, and I'd love to be the one to write it. I got e-mailed by a load of complete random strangers all telling me they've been victims of the same of shit that I'm now getting put through, so I'm thinking perhaps it's a good idea for us all to get together and launch a joint legal action or something? Any advice?



Yes, it would be incredibly petty of you to get in touch with the police, unless you actually feel threatened/harrassed.

I have no legal advice for you  If you have had people contact you who feel threatened/harassed then perhaps a call to plod might be in order. I really don't know.


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## krink (Nov 22, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Would it be incredibly petty of me to get in touch with the police over this?



Delroy, you know the answer to this. just shit on her car or something


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> Yes, it would be incredibly petty of you to get in touch with the police, unless you actually feel threatened/harrassed.
> 
> I have no legal advice for you  If you have had people contact you who feel threatened/harassed then perhaps a call to plod might be in order. I really don't know.



This is the dilemma, I'm not personally threatened by it obviously, but there's a few different people who've got in touch with me who've been through the same thing who clearly do feel threatened.

In those cases I've just told them to go to the police, I mean some of the incredibly abusive swearing and stuff they've had to endure is clearly against the law, and if they'd had the courage to go to a solicitor instead of just meekly accepting it then Mrs Ansell may very well have been trouble herself.

Here's a little taster of some of the things Lisa's been e-mailing to people.

"if you continue to harrass me- either through your weirdo mates on twitter, or by claiming that I threatened you with child protection procedures I will speak openly about your husbands porn addiction or his abusive nature"


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## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2011)

There is no dilemma.


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## shaun balls (Nov 23, 2011)

The leave ban combined with the response to the strike has had an interesting (and I say that only with the calm of a psychopath) effect. My department, on November 30th, will run above full strength.
Please, what does a person do in the face on such cowardice? Seriously, what?


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## Nice one (Nov 23, 2011)

The N30 strike website is now up and running proper, lots of info: http://www.n30strike.org/
and it's surly kid brother mooching about in the corner: http://n30strike.wordpress.com/ 
They're not connected, the latter specifically aimed at anarchist involvement for N30


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## articul8 (Nov 23, 2011)

Red Pepper's "union mythbuster":
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/unionsmythbuster.pdf

Copies available on request


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## nino_savatte (Nov 23, 2011)

Scameron publishes an open letter to trade unionists in The Scum.



> myView
> By DAVID CAMERON
> Prime Minister
> I HAVE huge respect for the hard-working men and women who keep our vital services running.
> ...



Patronising cunt.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2011)

> 'Most of them did not vote for this'


 
Says David Cameron, member of an unelected coalition, with a straight face.

Patronising, sure- but the gall is pretty impressive.


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## marty21 (Nov 23, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/22/free-flights-border-agency-strike

Panic! Government using TAX PAYERS MONEY to fly staff back from Foreign land to scab .


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## nino_savatte (Nov 23, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Says David Cameron, member of an unelected coalition, with a straight face.
> 
> Patronising, sure- but the gall is pretty impressive.


For sure. Mandate? What mandate?


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## Jeff Robinson (Nov 24, 2011)

Good to see students backing these strikes:



> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/studentsStudents are planning a wave of campus occupations and protests in the run-up to nationwide strikes next week, the Guardian has learned.
> 
> Occupations called by the student group
> National Campaign Against Fees and Cuts (NCAFC) ahead of the trade union day of action on 30 November have already happened at Birmingham and Cambridge universities. Higher education minister David Willettshad to abandon a speech on the Idea of University on Tuesday night after students heckled him from the stage and began occupying Cambridge's largest lecture hall.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/students 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/nov/23/student-protesters-back-public-sector-strikes

http://anticuts.com/

Also good to see that disgusting vermin Willetts no platformed as well.


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## nino_savatte (Nov 24, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Good to see students backing these strikes:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/nov/23/student-protesters-back-public-sector-strikes
> 
> ...


Paul Sagar gets all weepy on Liberal Conspiracy because Willetts was heckled.
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/11/23/the-student-protest-at-cambridge-last-night-was-deluded/

Diddums.


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## Balbi (Nov 24, 2011)

This will cost 500 million, says Maude.

And your seats in 2015, says I.


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## marty21 (Nov 24, 2011)

Just had an argument with a colleague over the pensions deal - said it was a good offer and he wasn't going to strike - pointed out that it didn't affect him as he is close to retirement and that it wasn't a good offer in the first place  we're a small office and looks like 2/9 will be out, possibly 3 - I think 5 of us are members of unison


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## BigTom (Nov 24, 2011)

Balbi said:


> This will cost 500 million, says Maude.
> 
> And your seats in 2015, says I.



As someone on twitter pointed out, remember this for those people who say that the public sector only consumes and all wealth is created by the private sector.. as s/he so succinctly put it

How come, if the public sector does not create wealth, will the strikes cost the economy so much?


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## dynamicbaddog (Nov 24, 2011)

Just seen this facebook status from one of my friends - check the lunchtime news

'_'Outside the Cabinet Office building for Nov 30th this morning, who rolls up but the Chancellor, George Osborne. My colleague asked him if he was going out on strike on the 30th - no, he said, he was working, and he wasn't a member of a union. 'Maybe you should think about joining then!' he  replied. Then, the BBC turned up. Who walks around the corner but Francis Maude with his coffee carrying PA! The reporter tried to get a comment out of him and needless to say, we all bombarded him with flyers he must have had the shock of his life! It should be on BBC lunchtime news.''_


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## purenarcotic (Nov 24, 2011)

Some folks at my uni will be putting some activities at the picket line to educate students on why the strikes are happening which will hopefully be good.  General consenus from supporters of the strike seems to be to encourage students to walk out of lectures in solidarity of those on strike.

Here's hoping we get a good turn out at the picket.


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## Jeff Robinson (Nov 24, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Paul Sagar gets all weepy on Liberal Conspiracy because Willetts was heckled.
> http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/11/23/the-student-protest-at-cambridge-last-night-was-deluded/
> 
> Diddums.



A rather quaint understanding of how political debate and freedom of expression operate in the highly unequal relations of bourgeois society. Allowing Willetts a platform merely amounts to what Marcuse called the 'repressive tolerance' of self serving 'takling shop' strategies used to create a smoke screen that the disempowered have any say in policy formation whatsoever. The likes of Sager would have probably also defended the right of army recruiters on US campuses to enlist students to murder Vietnamese peasants in the name of 'debate' and 'free speech'.


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## marty21 (Nov 24, 2011)

I will be visiting our picket line in the morning, and marching in Central London - anyone else going on the march?


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## Lisa Ansell (Nov 24, 2011)

Hi. My name is Lisa Ansell. I just got sent this forum link. Which reassured me a great deal, because I have spent days terrified that someone three miles from my house is so upset that I said this. It turns out he is miles away and you all think you are doing the strike action a favour by targetting me: http://lisaansell.posterous.com/scab. . Which is, as many of you say in your postss about strike action in their places of work, pretty much consensus and has huge implications for the upcoming industrial actions - because it is highly likely this is the first of many and those issues need to addressed. You cant do that by shouting scab at people. I had to say this because a small group of very posh activists that I know personally, were treating the word scab like a fashion accessory. The words Delroy says were aimed at him, were actually mine during a concerted and organised response my post which one of the people at @sabcatprinting said would usually be reserved for when an EDL activist had said something outrageous. As well as Delroys comments on my blog I received hundreds and hundreds of threats via twitter, email. I responded to Delroys request on my blog- not one of the accusations on hhere or made by Delroy has any substance. I apologise if I wasnt polite to the man threatening to focus his entire future on destroying my life because I wanted to discuss something quite important that needs to be addressed.

I am not even a guardian commentator. I refused to write for the Guardian because I told them that as long as their editorial was heavily politically biased for the Labour and Lib Dems  people affected by cuts would never be heard. My £200 quid phone is actually a second hand one lent to me when my last phone broke, and it has just died. I make very little by writing, it is topped up various other bits of self employment because I cant find a job, I was a social worker(no I wasnt fired) and now that isnt a field where posts are plentiful. The women I talk about in that blog, I know a few arent going to strike. If they had been balloted last year when they were BEGGING Unison to ballot them. They wold have done. Now they just cant, they are so far below the breadline that they just cant. None of the positions i took in that article were controversial. I share a house with another single parent, becuase neither of us can afford to live on our own any more. He is away this week, and i have been terrified. I have emailed Delroy to say I would like the oppportunity to talk to him about both my position in that article and how what he feels is harmless has been perceived over the last few days.


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## Lisa Ansell (Nov 24, 2011)

Sorry some of that first paragraph is a bit garbled, I pressed post too soon. It has been a long week.


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## nino_savatte (Nov 24, 2011)

Anyone who crosses a picket line is a scab. It isn't about "bullying", it's about solidarity or the lack of it in a scab's case. If someone calls someone who crosses a picket line a scab, then they're right to do so. This "middle class trendy striker" thing is a red herring.



> *The Scab by Jack London*
> 
> After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab.
> 
> ...


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## marty21 (Nov 24, 2011)

Striking is about solidarity - if you are in a union and the union votes to strike - you strike - there were plenty of union members who didn't bother to vote - if they had there might have been a different result - although I doubt it

and if you cross a picket line - you are a scab

there will be plenty of places that won't have a picket line so plenty of scabs won't have to hear mean words shouted at them


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## Lisa Ansell (Nov 24, 2011)

Striking requires solidarity. Yes.  Our unions have been eroded for many years and as many people above have said, we dont have it. We are not going to get it shouting scab. Am sorry, also the level of vitriol I have received for saying this is not boding well for any discussion about how to build that solidarity.


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## nino_savatte (Nov 24, 2011)

I see nothing wrong with shaming a blackleg by shouting "scab" at them. It seems to me that you have your priorities arse about face, Lisa.


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## marty21 (Nov 24, 2011)

I don't see it as bullying - it's not as if we are stealing their dinner money or eating their children - and if you don't want to be called it - don't cross a picket line


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## Jeff Robinson (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> Striking requires solidarity. Yes. Our unions have been eroded for many years and as many people above have said, we dont have it. We are not going to get it shouting scab. Am sorry, also the level of vitriol I have received for saying this is not boding well for any discussion about how to build that solidarity.



Vitriol? You've had an easy ride given the sub-daily mail re-heated diarrhea you espouse on you blog.


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## Lisa Ansell (Nov 24, 2011)

http://sabcat.com/news/politics/scabs/ This was sabcat printings take on my post. Nothing controversial about the position i took and the campaigng since has been extraordinary. The fear I had about Delroys posts were in the midst of a response to a completely uncontroversial position, which absolutely validated my initial concerns. I had every right to feel intimidated and it scares me that this can still happen in 2011.


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## past caring (Nov 24, 2011)

Fuck off you scab bitch.


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## frogwoman (Nov 24, 2011)

The vitriol is like the War Veterans in Zimbabwe? Are you fucking joking?


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 24, 2011)

Please lisa, just let it go, and please stop e-mailing me. Hopefully you'll see you have absolutely nothing to be worried about and just get on with your life.


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## peterkro (Nov 24, 2011)

I know this may be shocking Lisa Ansell,everything is not about you.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> http://sabcat.com/news/politics/scabs/ This was sabcat printings take on my post. Nothing controversial about the position i took and the campaigng since has been extraordinary. The fear I had about Delroys posts were in the midst of a response to a completely uncontroversial position, which absolutely validated my initial concerns. I had every right to feel intimidated and it scares me that this can still happen in 2011.


The author of that sabcat post is on here, and he can talk for himself. He's right that conditions have changed. Relations between union members and the unions have changed. Your original article barely touched on how and why though. It was a tactically idiotic move.


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## Lisa Ansell (Nov 24, 2011)

And unions have always allowed for life and limb cover. Life and limb is not scabbing. You wont be shouting scabs at the medics stitching up your heads if protests are policed the way they have been recently. Its just that some of our public services run so close to barely being able to deliver life and limb on an ongoing basis that strikings effect is more complicated than downing tools in a factory. I am sorry that contradicts your perception of what should be. The word scab means scab forming over wound made by industrial action. Problem with our public services is that we have been trying to string together coherent services with ineffecient-marketised resources for so long, that there are entire services which run solely by public sector workers scabbing over the wound. Not for the benefit of bosses, but for service users who would be entirely fucking abandoned if they didn't. And if you dont mind, I am not fighting for those people to have scab shouted at them. Nor f or people to be left with overflowing colostomy bags to show solidarity. I am neither a guardian commentator nor middle class liberal anything, but babies dont stop being born, injuries don't stop happening, people don't stop beating their children in solidarity with the strike. This is the first sign of action many workers have seen for a year, many of them waiting and becoming more unable to take part as things got worse.  You don't get to bully and intimidate people with the word scab, when actually that kind of intimidation is not being made by those striking. And those shouting it dontn have any alternative to the colostomy bags being changed and the injuries left untreated.


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## Lisa Ansell (Nov 24, 2011)

I wasnt thinkingg tactically, I was thinking of the people that scab bullying woudl target and was subsequently proved right. Bullying and intimidation is not a tactic.


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## Louis MacNeice (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa - excusing people from abiding by the democratic decsions of their union - especially when it is done under the guise of individual exceptionalism - is no way to promote solidarity; rather the opposite. Scab is not a nice thing to be called (albeit nowhere near as offensive as some of the epithets you have thrown Delroy's way); it is not meant to be. This is because crossing a picket line is not a good thing to do; a little name calling is the least of the costs that such action actually incurs (as millions will find out if this fight is lost).

Louis MacNeice


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## Lisa Ansell (Nov 24, 2011)

Actually, given the level of abuse I have received this weekend for making an entirely uncontroversial position is. I dont want to get involved with more discussions that I dont hear from the workers you are claiming solidarity with. I am here to let Delroy know that I thought he lived a few miles away from me. He has the offer of talking to me. But none of the accusations I have faced have any merit and I have spent teh last few days terrified by the response I received to making a point which is so uncontroversial outside these circles.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> I wasnt thinkingg tactically, I was thinking of the people that scab bullying woudl target and was subsequently proved right. Bullying and intimidation is not a tactic.


Where were you subsequently proven right? All i can see is that you can't think on your feet and can't defend your arguments.


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## frogwoman (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> Actually, given the level of abuse I have received this weekend for making an entirely uncontroversial position is. I dont want to get involved with more discussions that I dont hear from the workers you are claiming solidarity with. I am here to let Delroy know that I thought he lived a few miles away from me. He has the offer of talking to me. But none of the accusations I have faced have any merit and I have spent teh last few days terrified by the response I received to making a point which is so uncontroversial outside these circles.



You're terrified by people disagreeing with you? get a grip


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## nino_savatte (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> And unions have always allowed for life and limb cover. Life and limb is not scabbing. You wont be shouting scabs at the medics stitching up your heads if protests are policed the way they have been recently. Its just that some of our public services run so close to barely being able to deliver life and limb on an ongoing basis that strikings effect is more complicated than downing tools in a factory. I am sorry that contradicts your perception of what should be. The word scab means scab forming over wound made by industrial action. Problem with our public services is that we have been trying to string together coherent services with ineffecient-marketised resources for so long, that there are entire services which run solely by public sector workers scabbing over the wound. Not for the benefit of bosses, but for service users who would be entirely fucking abandoned if they didn't. And if you dont mind, I am not fighting for those people to have scab shouted at them. Nor f or people to be left with overflowing colostomy bags to show solidarity. I am neither a guardian commentator nor middle class liberal anything, but babies dont stop being born, injuries don't stop happening, people don't stop beating their children in solidarity with the strike. This is the first sign of action many workers have seen for a year, many of them waiting and becoming more unable to take part as things got worse. You don't get to bully and intimidate people with the word scab, when actually that kind of intimidation is not being made by those striking. And those shouting it dontn have any alternative to the colostomy bags being changed and the injuries left untreated.



You're not really sure what you want. This is one of the most confused posts I've ever read. Once again, your thesis rests on the utterance of the word "scab", which you have managed to equate with bullying. Utterly bizarre.

I reckon you're a Tory shill.


----------



## past caring (Nov 24, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> I reckon you're a Tory shill.



You give her too much credit.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 24, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> I reckon you're a Tory



Corrected for you


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> And unions have always allowed for life and limb cover. Life and limb is not scabbing. You wont be shouting scabs at the medics stitching up your heads if protests are policed the way they have been recently. Its just that some of our public services run so close to barely being able to deliver life and limb on an ongoing basis that strikings effect is more complicated than downing tools in a factory. I am sorry that contradicts your perception of what should be. The word scab means scab forming over wound made by industrial action. Problem with our public services is that we have been trying to string together coherent services with ineffecient-marketised resources for so long, that there are entire services which run solely by public sector workers scabbing over the wound. Not for the benefit of bosses, but for service users who would be entirely fucking abandoned if they didn't. And if you dont mind, I am not fighting for those people to have scab shouted at them. Nor f or people to be left with overflowing colostomy bags to show solidarity. I am neither a guardian commentator nor middle class liberal anything, but babies dont stop being born, injuries don't stop happening, people don't stop beating their children in solidarity with the strike. This is the first sign of action many workers have seen for a year, many of them waiting and becoming more unable to take part as things got worse. You don't get to bully and intimidate people with the word scab, when actually that kind of intimidation is not being made by those striking. And those shouting it dontn have any alternative to the colostomy bags being changed and the injuries left untreated.



Why would anybody shout scab at someone working in accordance with the various
unions' protocol agreements (e.g. 'for the duration of the industrial action,
Trade Unions on strike will provide safe cover')? Why would you choose to
construct this scary straw man, while ignoring the real danger to millions of
people's livelihoods? You either need to get a sense of perspective, or be a
little more honest as to your actual position (and that's honest to yourself as
well as others).

Louis MacNeice


----------



## marty21 (Nov 24, 2011)

> Dear Colleague
> 
> You will be aware that members of Unison, the NUT and GMB have voted to take strike
> 
> ...


Just had this emailed to me -


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> Hi. My name is Lisa Ansell. I just got sent this forum link. Which reassured me a great deal, because I have spent days terrified that someone three miles from my house is so upset that I said this. It turns out he is miles away and you all think you are doing the strike action a favour by targetting me: http://lisaansell.posterous.com/scab. . Which is, as many of you say in your postss about strike action in their places of work, pretty much consensus and has huge implications for the upcoming industrial actions - because it is highly likely this is the first of many and those issues need to addressed. You cant do that by shouting scab at people. I had to say this because a small group of very posh activists that I know personally, were treating the word scab like a fashion accessory. The words Delroy says were aimed at him, were actually mine during a concerted and organised response my post which one of the people at @sabcatprinting said would usually be reserved for when an EDL activist had said something outrageous. As well as Delroys comments on my blog I received hundreds and hundreds of threats via twitter, email. I responded to Delroys request on my blog- not one of the accusations on hhere or made by Delroy has any substance. I apologise if I wasnt polite to the man threatening to focus his entire future on destroying my life because I wanted to discuss something quite important that needs to be addressed.
> 
> I am not even a guardian commentator. I refused to write for the Guardian because I told them that as long as their editorial was heavily politically biased for the Labour and Lib Dems  people affected by cuts would never be heard. My £200 quid phone is actually a second hand one lent to me when my last phone broke, and it has just died. I make very little by writing, it is topped up various other bits of self employment because I cant find a job, I was a social worker(no I wasnt fired) and now that isnt a field where posts are plentiful. The women I talk about in that blog, I know a few arent going to strike. If they had been balloted last year when they were BEGGING Unison to ballot them. They wold have done. Now they just cant, they are so far below the breadline that they just cant. None of the positions i took in that article were controversial. I share a house with another single parent, becuase neither of us can afford to live on our own any more. He is away this week, and i have been terrified. I have emailed Delroy to say I would like the oppportunity to talk to him about both my position in that article and how what he feels is harmless has been perceived over the last few days.


Defensive much? LOL


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> And unions have always allowed for life and limb cover. Life and limb is not scabbing. You wont be shouting scabs at the medics stitching up your heads if protests are policed the way they have been recently. Its just that some of our public services run so close to barely being able to deliver life and limb on an ongoing basis that strikings effect is more complicated than downing tools in a factory. I am sorry that contradicts your perception of what should be. The word scab means scab forming over wound made by industrial action. Problem with our public services is that we have been trying to string together coherent services with ineffecient-marketised resources for so long, that there are entire services which run solely by public sector workers scabbing over the wound. Not for the benefit of bosses, but for service users who would be entirely fucking abandoned if they didn't. And if you dont mind, I am not fighting for those people to have scab shouted at them. Nor f or people to be left with overflowing colostomy bags to show solidarity. I am neither a guardian commentator nor middle class liberal anything, but babies dont stop being born, injuries don't stop happening, people don't stop beating their children in solidarity with the strike. This is the first sign of action many workers have seen for a year, many of them waiting and becoming more unable to take part as things got worse.  You don't get to bully and intimidate people with the word scab, when actually that kind of intimidation is not being made by those striking. And those shouting it dontn have any alternative to the colostomy bags being changed and the injuries left untreated.



The RCN isn't striking.


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## gentlegreen (Nov 24, 2011)

Given this strike is against the government, rather than the employers, is there any remedy in law by individual employers if they consider individual employees' strike action to constitute a breach of contract ?


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## Blagsta (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> Actually, given the level of abuse I have received this weekend for making an entirely uncontroversial position is. I dont want to get involved with more discussions that I dont hear from the workers you are claiming solidarity with. I am here to let Delroy know that I thought he lived a few miles away from me. He has the offer of talking to me. But none of the accusations I have faced have any merit and I have spent teh last few days terrified by the response I received to making a point which is so uncontroversial outside these circles.


You are talking to some of the workers who will be striking. What makes you think you aren't?


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## marty21 (Nov 24, 2011)

> *PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS INFORMATION TO MEMBERS*
> Some members have expressed concern at a letter forwarded from HR concerning the strike in defence of our pensions and in particular regarding the issue of the implications of striking for continuity of service. Members should know that any industrial action, albeit entirely lawful such as the 30 November strike, is considered a breach of the employment contract and so 1 day's pay can be docked for this. *BUT* this does not have any effect on your accrued employment rights in connection with entitlements to annual leave, occupational sick pay or entitlement to compensation for redundancy.
> There is *no* break in continuity of service, though the strike day will not count towards your total number of days continuously employed. The implications for your pension are very small - as 1 day's service would normally only amount to about £1 or £2 or so of pension entitlement.


 
As I thought - scare mongering from my employer - response from the Union


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## butchersapron (Nov 24, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> Given this strike is against the government, rather than the employers, is there any remedy in law by individual employers if they consider individual employees' strike action to constitute a breach of contract ?


The strike is against the employers.


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## nino_savatte (Nov 24, 2011)

The government is desperate and they're resorting to every dirty trick in the book. The strike only lasts one day not 9 days as in the case of the General Strike. They moan about one single day 'affecting the economy' , yet there wasn't a peep from them about the 2 days off for the Royal Wedding.


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## Mapped (Nov 24, 2011)

marty21 said:


> As I thought - scare mongering from my employer - response from the Union



I got this from mine, in a massive HR load of bollocks email, it's not just your employer peddling this rubbish.



> *10.**Staff leaving on Voluntary Exit (VE) - impact of taking industrial action?*
> Your reckonable service will be affected and this will impact on your pensionable reckonable service which is used to calculate your compensation payment and pension entitlement. DWP will be advised should you take industrial action and they will recalculate any changes required to your compensation payment and pension entitlement and will advise you of any impact.
> 
> *11.**Other effects of taking industrial action - qualifying service*
> ...


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## butchersapron (Nov 24, 2011)

_Striking to save your pension might adversely effect your pension._


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## marty21 (Nov 24, 2011)

N1 Buoy said:


> I got this from mine, in a massive HR load of bollocks email, it's not just your employer peddling this rubbish.


fuckers


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## gentlegreen (Nov 24, 2011)

We had something similar. Currently awaiting a union response.
By all accounts the line missing was "unless you are a signed-up union member".

I may well sign up for picket duty now.


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## Mapped (Nov 24, 2011)

marty21 said:


> fuckers



I hadn't bothered to read the email (crazy inbox atm) and I only looked after I saw yours. We haven't had a union response yet, so I'm raising a query now.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 24, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> I am here to let Delroy know that I thought he lived a few miles away from me.



Well now we've established that fact can you please LEAVE ME ALONE?

I've had 5 e-mails off you in the space of 9 minutes, despite me practically begging you to leave me alone, I have no further interest in discussing any of this with you.

The police have already told you to stop engaging and to let the matter lie, I suggest you follow that advice.


----------



## past caring (Nov 24, 2011)




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## butchersapron (Nov 24, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Well now we've established that fact can you please LEAVE ME ALONE?
> 
> I've had 5 e-mails off you in the space of 9 minutes, despite me practically begging you to leave me alone, I have no further interest in discussing any of this with you.
> 
> The police have already told you to stop engaging and to let the matter lie, I suggest you follow that advice.



I thought you wanted the OB involved?


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 24, 2011)

Nah not if I can help it, I was considering it just because there were so many others who've been in the same boat as me who I feel sorry for, but it's not my style. If they want to that's their perogative, but I'm done with the matter. I'm not interesting in persuing online arguments with random strangers via the police, I've said my piece and that's the end of the matter as far as I'm concerned.


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## creak (Nov 24, 2011)

marty21 said:


> As I thought - scare mongering from my employer - response from the Union



Thanks for this. If anyone else has any information about the technicalities in this area or what the real legal standing is it'd be appreciated if you could post it, as I'm pretty sure my employer will try this sort of thing in my office too and I reckon there's a few who would be easily put off striking by it.


----------



## machine cat (Nov 24, 2011)

From  the other thread:

NUT reps in Halifax schools refusing to tell management how many staff will walk out next week (It's a lot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

At my workplace:

Tried to pursued colleagues again to go out but after countering the usual excuses they have decided to "wait for the next one" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have however seen a lot of union propaganda floating around so I know I'm not the only person trying to get people out. There is also very little communication between unions as people in Unite and Prospect are not aware of the picket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Update: Children's Centre in Huddersfield closed: Parents and kids to attend rally.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 25, 2011)

machine cat said:


> From the other thread:
> 
> NUT reps in Halifax schools refusing to tell management how many staff will walk out next week (It's a lot
> 
> ...



I know of a few headteachers in the wider west yorkshire area who keep trying to force staff to tell them if they are striking or not. The only appropriate reply is "are you asking me if i'm in a union" because you're not even obliged to tell them that.

Looking forward to the rally in Hudds, from what I understand it's looking like a big one!


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## elfman (Nov 25, 2011)

Sorry if this has been said but I didn't see it... RMT staff from the Tyne and Wear Metro will be joining the strike

http://solidaritymagazine.org/2011/11/rmt-confirms-tyne-and-wear-metro-strike-in-pensions-fight/

Good luck to everyone taking part!


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## Balbi (Nov 25, 2011)

Border Agency staff tell government where to stick their £450 a shift scab money! 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/nov/25/border-agency-passport-checks

Some of them scabbed in June I think, but after the Brodie Clark thing - they're not having it.


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## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 25, 2011)

Tunnels and ferries all closed on the 30th here in Liverpool


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## BigTom (Nov 25, 2011)

TV Licencing staff in CWU are also going to strike on the 30th, over pay - they are capita employees.


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## treelover (Nov 25, 2011)

MSM going into overdrive now, definitely worth monitoring BBC stance, we pay for them...


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## Balbi (Nov 25, 2011)

treelover said:


> MSM going into overdrive now, definitely worth monitoring BBC stance, we pay for them...



MSM?


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## BigTom (Nov 25, 2011)

Balbi said:


> MSM?


MainStream Media (as opposed to blogs etc)


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## shagnasty (Nov 25, 2011)

yes the propaganda war will be at full tilt this weekend the right wing press and the compliant bbc


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## frogwoman (Nov 25, 2011)

bbc's not out today are they?


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 26, 2011)

shagnasty said:


> yes the propaganda war will be at full tilt this weekend the right wing press and the compliant bbc



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15895102


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## nino_savatte (Nov 26, 2011)

They've been playing the national security card. "We may have to get the army to guard our borders"...


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## N_igma (Nov 26, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> Hi. My name is Lisa Ansell. I just got sent this forum link. Which reassured me a great deal, because I have spent days terrified that someone three miles from my house is so upset that I said this. It turns out he is miles away and you all think you are doing the strike action a favour by targetting me: http://lisaansell.posterous.com/scab. . Which is, as many of you say in your postss about strike action in their places of work, pretty much consensus and has huge implications for the upcoming industrial actions - because it is highly likely this is the first of many and those issues need to addressed. You cant do that by shouting scab at people. I had to say this because a small group of very posh activists that I know personally, were treating the word scab like a fashion accessory. The words Delroy says were aimed at him, were actually mine during a concerted and organised response my post which one of the people at @sabcatprinting said would usually be reserved for when an EDL activist had said something outrageous. As well as Delroys comments on my blog I received hundreds and hundreds of threats via twitter, email. I responded to Delroys request on my blog- not one of the accusations on hhere or made by Delroy has any substance. I apologise if I wasnt polite to the man threatening to focus his entire future on destroying my life because I wanted to discuss something quite important that needs to be addressed.
> 
> I am not even a guardian commentator. I refused to write for the Guardian because I told them that as long as their editorial was heavily politically biased for the Labour and Lib Dems people affected by cuts would never be heard. My £200 quid phone is actually a second hand one lent to me when my last phone broke, and it has just died. I make very little by writing, it is topped up various other bits of self employment because I cant find a job, I was a social worker(no I wasnt fired) and now that isnt a field where posts are plentiful. The women I talk about in that blog, I know a few arent going to strike. If they had been balloted last year when they were BEGGING Unison to ballot them. They wold have done. Now they just cant, they are so far below the breadline that they just cant. None of the positions i took in that article were controversial. I share a house with another single parent, becuase neither of us can afford to live on our own any more. He is away this week, and i have been terrified. I have emailed Delroy to say I would like the oppportunity to talk to him about both my position in that article and how what he feels is harmless has been perceived over the last few days.



Shut the fuck up.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 26, 2011)

has it occurred to you that many people on strike cant afford to be on strike either? last year at a strike i helped at the cleaners were being paid minimum wage with no sick pay (which is what the strike was about). yet, the strike was solid, we ended up raising hundreds in strike fund money too. if someone is pissed off at someone else scabbing that's not a sexist thing, they're just annoyed at the strike being broken!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 26, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> They've been playing the national security card. "We may have to get the army to guard our borders"...


 
Threatening with troops. Lets get NATO to bomb us then.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 26, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> has it occurred to you that many people on strike cant afford to be on strike either? last year at a strike i helped at the cleaners were being paid minimum wage with no sick pay (which is what the strike was about). yet, the strike was solid, we ended up raising hundreds in strike fund money too. if someone is pissed off at someone else scabbing that's not a sexist thing, they're just annoyed at the strike being broken!



Exactly. There's cleaning staff and auxilliary workers involved in this upcoming dispute who are paid minimum wage and have even worse pensions than just about anyone, and they're not scabbing. They understand the value of solidarity, despite the fact they can barely keep their heads above water. Strikes involve sacrifice, and if you're not not willing to make it then let it be on your conscience.


----------



## machine cat (Nov 26, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Looking forward to the rally in Hudds, from what I understand it's looking like a big one!



Most of the ones in WY seem like they're going to get a good amount of people attending.

I'll be at the Leeds march and rally, but the missus and kid will be attending the Huddersfield one so will get a full report once I get home.


----------



## shaman75 (Nov 27, 2011)




----------



## BigTom (Nov 28, 2011)

5 Points About Pensions

Nice little post about pensions and the strike


----------



## BigTom (Nov 28, 2011)

61% of people support the strike - 79% of 18-25 year olds .. Comres poll for BBC


----------



## marty21 (Nov 28, 2011)

read that Francis '15 minute strike' Maud is now bringin in the troops to cover our borders and work as customs officers   the government is definitely panicking over this


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 28, 2011)

Part of the Royal navy is also on strike tho


----------



## krink (Nov 28, 2011)

Need a slogan please!

My brain is mashed off work and I need a good little slogan for me placard for wednesday. Any ideas? something about scabs or unity would be good.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

Lisa Ansell said:


> Hi. My name is Lisa Ansell. I just got sent this forum link. Which reassured me a great deal, because I have spent days terrified that someone three miles from my house is so upset that I said this. It turns out he is miles away and you all think you are doing the strike action a favour by targetting me: http://lisaansell.posterous.com/scab. . Which is, as many of you say in your postss about strike action in their places of work, pretty much consensus and has huge implications for the upcoming industrial actions - because it is highly likely this is the first of many and those issues need to addressed. You cant do that by shouting scab at people. I had to say this because a small group of very posh activists that I know personally, were treating the word scab like a fashion accessory. The words Delroy says were aimed at him, were actually mine during a concerted and organised response my post which one of the people at @sabcatprinting said would usually be reserved for when an EDL activist had said something outrageous. As well as Delroys comments on my blog I received hundreds and hundreds of threats via twitter, email. I responded to Delroys request on my blog- not one of the accusations on hhere or made by Delroy has any substance. I apologise if I wasnt polite to the man threatening to focus his entire future on destroying my life because I wanted to discuss something quite important that needs to be addressed.
> 
> I am not even a guardian commentator. I refused to write for the Guardian because I told them that as long as their editorial was heavily politically biased for the Labour and Lib Dems people affected by cuts would never be heard. My £200 quid phone is actually a second hand one lent to me when my last phone broke, and it has just died. I make very little by writing, it is topped up various other bits of self employment because I cant find a job, I was a social worker(no I wasnt fired) and now that isnt a field where posts are plentiful. The women I talk about in that blog, I know a few arent going to strike. If they had been balloted last year when they were BEGGING Unison to ballot them. They wold have done. Now they just cant, they are so far below the breadline that they just cant. None of the positions i took in that article were controversial. I share a house with another single parent, becuase neither of us can afford to live on our own any more. He is away this week, and i have been terrified. I have emailed Delroy to say I would like the oppportunity to talk to him about both my position in that article and how what he feels is harmless has been perceived over the last few days.



I'd like to have said thanks for using your real name - it will make compiling The List far easier. But you appear to be such a humourless, hysterical twerp that you'd probably take it seriously and call the police. So instead I'll have to make do with calling you a disgusting wretch and a scab apologist.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 28, 2011)

Anyone in Manchester attending the rally on Wednesday?


----------



## Onket (Nov 28, 2011)

Finally been able to log on at home & 'RSVP' on this thread. The formatting wasn't right on the computer at work, for some reason.


----------



## IC3D (Nov 28, 2011)

Anyone going to the Banker Awards on Park Lane? own up whose invited.


----------



## 74drew (Nov 29, 2011)

IC3D said:


> Anyone going to the Banker Awards on Park Lane? own up whose invited.


I saw that too. November 30th, park lane! smells like a trap


----------



## Fedayn (Nov 29, 2011)

Yes, i'm out, the formatting is, as Onket mentioned, fucked on here.


----------



## Onket (Nov 29, 2011)

28 people voting 'Yes' seems very low but if most can only see the 'Maybe' and 'No' options, that explains it.

Maybe an old-fashioned poll would have been better.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 29, 2011)

are we posting announcements here?

i am
*Benefit Claimants in Solidarity With the PCS!*


Wednesday 30th November 2011
Euston Tower, Triton Square, Euston Road, London, NW1
Benefit claimants, disabled people and supporters will be joining the PCS picket line at HMRC, Euston Tower from 9.00am*.

We will be standing in solidarity with all striking workers on the day, and in particular public sector workers who know only too well what the result of this government’s savage welfare policies will be.

Join us at Euston Tower, where speeches will begin at 9am. At some point we will also no doubt be paying a short visit to notorious poverty pimps Atos Origin just round the corner, the IT company responsible for carrying out the disastrous Work Capability Assessments which have driven sick and disabled claimants to suicide.

Many of us then will make our way to the Trade Union march and Striker’s Assembly, both being held in central London. For full details of all events, pickets and actions taking place in London on the day please visit: http://www.n30strike.org/

*the PCS picket line will begin at 7am so please come earlier if you can.

Then on the 1st December we’ll be kicking off the National Month of Action Against Atos and the Benefit Cuts by paying a visit to a lecture being given by Iain Duncan Smith at the LSE. More details at: http://benefitclaimantsfightback.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/protest-at-iain-duncan-smiths-lse-talk-december-1st/

For details of the month of action visit: http://benefitclaimantsfightback.wo...ive-action-against-atos-and-the-benefit-cuts/


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## treelover (Nov 29, 2011)

krink said:


> Need a slogan please!
> 
> My brain is mashed off work and I need a good little slogan for me placard for wednesday. Any ideas? something about scabs or unity would be good.


 
Remember when Teachers and Nurses, Students,  Council Workers crashed the stock market, 

Remember when Disabled people and claimants wiped out banks, 

Remember when the unemployed took billions in bonuses 

and all of them paid no tax? 

No, me neither, so why are they paying for the crisis?


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## BigTom (Nov 29, 2011)

Birmingham ConDem council want to charge 10K for the TUC march in Birmingham

TUC might call off the march, but we need to turn up and march anyway, if you know people in Birmingham, please spread the word that even if the TUC do call off the march we'll still do it


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## Artaxerxes (Nov 29, 2011)

Getting alerts ready for tomorrow, best nugget of advice from the police:




> Please be aware that when an officer is wearing a helmet it is more difficult for them to communicate and if you are not facing them they may not hear you and they may shout.



So there, explains it all really.


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## shaman75 (Nov 29, 2011)

Artaxerxes said:


> Getting alerts ready for tomorrow, best nugget of advice from the police:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are the other ones just deaf then?


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## dynamicbaddog (Nov 29, 2011)

Southwark
Strikers' Breakfast at South Bank Uni - bakerloo line exit - Elephant and Castle from 9:30 and then march to the main demo


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## lopsidedbunny (Nov 29, 2011)

treelover said:


> Remember when Teachers and Nurses, Students, Council Workers crashed the stock market,
> 
> Remember when Disabled people and claimants wiped out banks,
> 
> ...



How about "Burn" easier to remember


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## BigTom (Nov 30, 2011)

Went to the university of Birmingham in the morning. loads of security present who were waving cars through and trying to be intimidating, plus 4 senior managers.  Lots of students out in support of the lecturers (more students than lecturers actually, though UCU were spread around 5 entrances at least, whereas all the students were at the main gates.

Birmingham demo was good - Birmingham Mail are saying around 10,000 and it was at least that - took nearly half an hour to walk past, width of one side of a road (2 and a bit car widths).
Too big for me to really guess a number anyway.

Couple of more militant groups on the march - IWW with their guillotine - I'll find a picture later - and occupy birmingham.. but only to the extent of more militant chants.

Having said that, the march happening at all is a bit more militant than usual, as the council tried to charge £10k for the march and the unions refused to pay and said they would march anyway, and did. I don't remember seeing any police at all, just stewards. I imagine there must have been some police around though.

Didn't go to the rally to listen to Brendan Barber and the like.


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## purenarcotic (Nov 30, 2011)

BigTom said:


> Went to the university of Birmingham in the morning. loads of security present who were waving cars through and trying to be intimidating, plus 4 senior managers. Lots of students out in support of the lecturers (more students than lecturers actually, though UCU were spread around 5 entrances at least, whereas all the students were at the main gates.



I expect we will have seen each other at the east gate, but not known we were both urbanites.

Spoke to one of the lecturers about how there seemed to be more students, he said 'getting lecturers to attend pickets is like trying to herd cats' which is an epic quote in itself.  Seems lecturers will strike and stay away as opposed to coming to the picket line, or that was his view at least.


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## BigTom (Nov 30, 2011)

purenarcotic said:


> I expect we will have seen each other at the east gate, but not known we were both urbanites.
> 
> Spoke to one of the lecturers about how there seemed to be more students, he said 'getting lecturers to attend pickets is like trying to herd cats' which is an epic quote in itself. Seems lecturers will strike and stay away as opposed to coming to the picket line, or that was his view at least.


lol yeah, that sounds about right


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## dynamicbaddog (Nov 30, 2011)

London demo was huge!


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## marty21 (Nov 30, 2011)

my fave image from today, taken at Lincoln's Inn Fields. Massive turnout, tens of thousands turned out.


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## BigTom (Nov 30, 2011)

30/11/11 N30 Birmingham by Geoff Dexter, on Flickr



30/11/11 N30 Birmingham by Geoff Dexter, on Flickr
It's really hard to gauge the size of the march from any picture, I hope there is an aerial photo of it.


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## Mr.Bishie (Nov 30, 2011)

10-15,000 marched in Brighton today. Awesome turnout!


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## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 30, 2011)

estimated 15 000 marched through Liverpool today, to one of the biggest rallies in the city in recent years - photos to follow


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## Mr.Bishie (Nov 30, 2011)

The Wobblies execute Dave & Nick in Brum - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdizrGproHM&feature=youtu.be


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## The39thStep (Nov 30, 2011)

35,000 marched in Manchester according to Unison (althoughPolice estimated 20,000)


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## Mr.Bishie (Nov 30, 2011)

Plod strike breaking at Birkbeck, security have called plod apparently.


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## moochedit (Nov 30, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Part of the Royal navy is also on strike tho



i thought the army and navy weren't allowed to strike ? wouldn't they get court marshelled ?


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## Mr.Bishie (Nov 30, 2011)

Civvy posts? afaik


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## embree (Nov 30, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Civvy posts? afaik


Certainly unions such as Prospect who have members providing support services to the armed forces were out today. Provided dispensation to people working in Afghanistan or security roles to go in but otherwise they called everyone out afaik


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## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 30, 2011)

embree said:


> Certainly unions such as Prospect who have members providing support services to the armed forces were out today. Provided dispensation to people working in Afghanistan or security roles to go in but otherwise they called everyone out afaik



Prospect members were on strike here in Liverpool - first time ever on strike according to guy on picket line this morning.


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## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 30, 2011)

a few photos from Liverpool on my Flickr here - more to follow


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## embree (Nov 30, 2011)

Yeah, I saw a couple of Prospect picket lines this morning


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## krink (Nov 30, 2011)

Newcastle demo was massive - not sure exactly but many thousands. Best attended demo in the north east since miners/poll tax days. I took my camera but the battery pack failed after 20 pics so i'll post the best later - I'm off for some tea as I've been on the go since picketing early this morning.

It's inspiring the numbers turning out across the country.


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## moochedit (Nov 30, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Civvy posts? afaik





embree said:


> Certainly unions such as Prospect who have members providing support services to the armed forces were out today. Provided dispensation to people working in Afghanistan or security roles to go in but otherwise they called everyone out afaik


Ah..ok..that explains it. cheers.


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## BigTom (Nov 30, 2011)

15,000 in Birmingham


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## krink (Nov 30, 2011)

8 - 10 thousand in gateshead to newcastle march according to media. my camera failed after a few shots so this is the best I have:

Walking towards Gateshead centre







This is about halfway point in the body of the march and already the front had gone over the bridge and was along the quayside:





I got over the bridge walked along the river and they were still coming down the bank on the Gateshead side.






Some anarchy types






my sign bigging up benton 





Sorry they're a bit crap.

The march was very noisy and enthusiastic despite the terrible route the TUC chose (missed out newcastle city centre completely) and the speakers at teh end were pretty boring apart fromn Bob Crowe who I think is ok.

Before the rally ended a bunch of mostly younger lads and lasses did a tour of some of the banks in the city centre to do some pickets and stuff which was a bit tiring for me little old legs so after a few hours of that I went home (took ages cos the Metro was on strike ).

Very impressed by numbers and I just hope this is built upon very quickly.


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## lopsidedbunny (Nov 30, 2011)

I think's it's Fenton  I wished I had my camera as I could had shown you lot the "Trafalgar Square Wall!" with closed slots for shooting people with rubber bullets and tear gas.

See Link and you will see it near the bottom of the page it may look harmless but this wall was chained to a nearby fence and each fence were interlocked into one another.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/11/489328.html


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## krink (Nov 30, 2011)

Jesus, that wall is ridiculous - they use them at high-risk football games too. the police are taking the piss in london from that indymedia report - it could end in some kind of street war one day if they keep that ott total policing shit up.


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## shaman75 (Nov 30, 2011)

Daily Fail have discovered the Wall of Steel.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...trators-highjack-strikes-bid-cause-chaos.html

Tin blue line.  Oh dear.


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## shaman75 (Nov 30, 2011)

I think I've found a weak point


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## Jeff Robinson (Dec 1, 2011)

Was on the picket lines at my uni yesterday. Sadly the turn out from members of staff was quite poor, I was the only person from my department - most just stayed at home and had a one day holiday I guess. However on the plus side there was some encouraging support from students, some of whom joined the picket and others who didn't go to their lectures and classes (in protest, not laziness I should add!). Also encouraging was the rally in the city centre afterwards where thousands converged. Undoubtably these strikes will have had enormous financial impact but clearly yesterday was only just the beggining. If unions and workers can keep up such sustained pressure and continue such strikes then the government will be forced to negotiate. I got the impression from those who were out and about yesterday that they weren't prepared to give in anytime soon. When somebody is trying to trade away your future you don't have much choice.


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## love detective (Dec 1, 2011)

BigTom said:


> 15,000 in Birmingham



were you interviewed for newsnight last night?

i know it's a long shot but it was a big guy called Tom from Birmingham


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## BigTom (Dec 1, 2011)

love detective said:


> were you interviewed for newsnight last night?
> 
> i know it's a long shot but it was a big guy called Tom from Birmingham



No, it wasn't me  I wonder who that was.. I might have a look at newsnight and see if I know him, can you remember how far through it was?


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## love detective (Dec 1, 2011)

about 14 mins in


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## manny-p (Dec 1, 2011)

School manager


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## BigTom (Dec 1, 2011)

nope, don't know him


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## dynamicbaddog (Dec 2, 2011)

Owen Jones takes some work-shy public sector employees to task.


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## frogwoman (Dec 2, 2011)

a comrade was telling me that one of his mates had been shouted at while on the picketline and told to get a job. it turned out that this guy had spent 6 months travelling in kenya and was now doing an internship for Citigroup


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## The39thStep (Dec 2, 2011)

dynamicbaddog said:


> Owen Jones takes some work-shy public sector employees to task.




 Pity he didn't get up early and actually go to a picket.


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## The39thStep (Dec 2, 2011)

krink said:


> 8 - 10 thousand in gateshead to newcastle march according to media. my camera failed after a few shots so this is the best I have:
> 
> Walking towards Gateshead centre
> 
> ...



very impressive turnout by North East Anarchists, where were the splitters?


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## shaun balls (Dec 2, 2011)

I found the Notts march quite amazing, over 8,000 solid up Mansfield Rd with a huge amount of public support. A very significant minority of FBU and RCN were out. The endless cycle on the Rally-o-vision screen of the dogbollock awful TUC strike song just about set the tone for the speakers, though.

At my hospital picket there were about 30 odd out. Traffic support was really impressive (it's an out of town site) and the ambulance crews went wild, a serious boost. The stream of staff though was utterly cold and unreceptive, and a trust goon even had a go at a point early on over complaints of 'intimidation' supposedly to do with one of the pickets _carrying_ a camera. Fuck's sake. Second hand figures suggest that 280 out of a trust staff of 7,000 struck.
The big guns in terms of militancy were by far the physiotherapists, radiographers and porters, who more or less cleared out. A couple were out to visibly represent the RCN. About half of those on the picket lines told me that they were, like me, the only ones out from their respective departments - heartening and depressing at the same time.
I've found, like has been said elsewhere, that what was a sneering, scoffing attitude to the strike in work has absolutely disappeared after the reality of 2 million out and muted retreat by government from the WITHDRAW ALL THE THINGS line was apparent. The strikebreakers have gone awfully coy. And the coverage has actually caught the attention of a few who now _are_ interested in tab-packet calculations of pension losses and real-terms pay reductions. Better late than never - so long as there is escalation.


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## quimcunx (Dec 3, 2011)

lopsidedbunny said:


> I think's it's Fenton



Ah Ha! I knew it wasn't my imagination. When I saw the video I'm sure it was Fenton, then next day people were going on about Benton on facebook and it confused me.

I posted a pic of the trafalgar sq. wall on another thread. It's a doozy.


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## butchersapron (Dec 20, 2011)

UNISON, Unite and GMB withdraw from pensions deal



> GMB, UNISON and Unite have suspended their pensions agreement with the government after a letter from Eric Pickles laid down new conditions outside the agreement.
> 
> The government has since withdrawn the letter, saying it was sent in error, but the unions say they have lost confidence in the negotiations.


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## butchersapron (Jan 30, 2012)

ATL now signing. They got their membership boost from their first ever strike so are fucking off and leaving others in the lurch.


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## frogwoman (Jan 30, 2012)

Fuck's sake


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## BigTom (Jan 30, 2012)

It's been an odd one for ATL, they are basically the teaching union you join if you don't want to strike (but aren't so stupid as to want to give up your right to strike entirely by joining voice).
So everyone was suprised when they went on strike in June, along with more militant unions.  If they hadn't of done that, it would be no surprise that they are among the first to sign up for the revised offer.
As it is, it's disappointing, and hopefully they will see members leave now for nut & nas who rejected the offer outright.


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