# Brian Paddick



## JoMo1953 (May 17, 2002)

We are trying to get biographical info on your Commander Paddick, specifically date of birth, time of birth, place of birth.  Article being prepared for local magazine on interesting and in the news "crime fighters" via astrological charts.  Can anyone help??  Thanks much

Jo Montgomery
njo4@juno.com
Los Angeles, CA  USA


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## harry's afro hut (May 17, 2002)




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## white rabbit (May 17, 2002)

Do you think this is a piss take?  

It involves too many stereotypes to be for real, surely?!!!


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## JoMo1953 (May 17, 2002)

Not sure what a "piss take" is but from this side of the ocean it does not sound very pleasant.  This is real, and if you knew anything about current events...we in LA are having major conflicts with our own Police Chief (Bernard Parks) which most of us would like to have continue on.....so take your sarcasim and I believe your phrase is "sod off".!!


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## white rabbit (May 17, 2002)

"Piss take" from "taking the piss", meaning having a joke at another's expense.

Pray tell why Cmr Paddick's astrological charts would be of any use to anyone ever.

<edited to add:>I think the correct expression is "fuck off" actually. Or possibly, "... and stick it up your arse."


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## JoMo1953 (May 17, 2002)

I'll try to excuse your use of profanity...if you have information that was requested we certainly would appriciate it if not don't waste our time.


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## white rabbit (May 17, 2002)

We shall see whose time is being wasted oh miss prim and proper.


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## pooka (May 17, 2002)

JoMo:

If you took the trouble to research these boards, you'd probably found the guy gave his email address, and you could ask him yourself! 

But policing and astrological signs!?! What would the Mail make of that?


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## William of Walworth (May 17, 2002)

*Zodiacical!*

You're all being a bit harsh on this nutter ... he's Californian!!! Make allowances .... a lot of them believe in all that astrological bollocks over there ...

No offence mate it's just that in my book astronomy = science, astrology = bollocks ...

Brian may be more friendly and indulgent about your interest though, so find a recent post by him and email him ... pooka's advice is fair ...

Make sure the Planet Fruitcake is in Alignment with the Asteroid Bonkers though ...


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## JoMo1953 (May 17, 2002)

*Brian Pollick*

Thanks for your input....SHE'S a California (and an Englishwoman) Cosidering that Mercury is now retrograde....communication is not a good thing at this time....obviously the planets are talking to us all.  I appreciate your support just the same....the one e-mail address we had for Brian was not for your good Commander and I think the guy is tired of everybody e-mailing him so his replies have been pretty spicy to say the least.  We will keep trying and perhaps some more members will get on line and give us a hand.  Have a great day.


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## drfranni (May 17, 2002)

Jo - Brian does not post his date of birth on his profile and therefore it seems likely that he prefers not to publicize this.  You are, of course, welcome to email him via his user CP but I'm afraid I have no idea whether he would chose to reply

Hmmm... dealing with policing problems by way of astrological charts - that it certainly "Thinking outside the envelope" 

I worry about California, but not very often


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## JoMo1953 (May 17, 2002)

Posting his Birthdate would have been far too easy....and you should worry about us poor Californians...in fact pray for us we need all the help we can get....fires, earthquakes, gangs, and god forbid astrologers......


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## Mr Retro (May 17, 2002)

@ this thread + WoW.

Nothing like a bit of American lunacy to kick off the day. 

Have a nice day you guys!


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## Mrs Magpie (May 17, 2002)

It's an old chestnut but I love it anyway.....
What's the difference between a pot of yoghurt and California?
There's culture in yoghurt!


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## Caspar Hauser (May 17, 2002)

I have to say the Anti-Americanism on this boards is very unsettling.


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## Anna Key (May 17, 2002)

LOL Mrs M.



> Article being prepared for local magazine on interesting and in the news "crime fighters" via astrological charts. Can anyone help??



Just make it up. That's what the British press does.


But should you track-down the requested infor, then consult the tea leaves and write the article, could you please mail me a copy? It's likely to be more accurate than anything published here. 



> ... we in LA are having major conflicts with our own Police Chief (Bernard Parks)



What's the dear boy been up to? Bad aura? Refuses to allow LAPD officers to address him as "man?"


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## William of Walworth (May 17, 2002)

Gonna shut down my chakra, shift Shiva off of my shelf ...


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## Mrs Magpie (May 17, 2002)

Anyway if JoMo is an Englishwoman it seems weird that "piss take" wasn't understood....English, but not as we know it...........
JoMo has been away too long from the the land of the reality check..............


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## Mrs Magpie (May 17, 2002)

**~BRAINWAVE!~**

Eureka! save your self loads of time JoMo...dangle a crystal over a calendar!


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## Mr Retro (May 17, 2002)

ROTF biting the carpet. 
   

Favorate thread since I joined the boards. 

JoMo 1953: Do you juggle?


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## newbie (May 17, 2002)

well I think you're all jolly rude, and I'd like to welcome JoMo.  I can't really see why someone posting a polite question from a different cultural background should be met with quite such withering scorn.  Maybe it's because California conjures up different images than Florida (hey white rabbit), maybe because astrology isn't  flavour of the month. Whatever, she's hardly had a friendly reception.


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## Anna Key (May 17, 2002)

> well I think you're all jolly rude...



Chill out man. Feel the vibe. Get WITH it.


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## Streathamite (May 17, 2002)

JoMo-I know I will really regret asking this (groan), but what does frontline community policing and the decriminalisation of cannabis have to do with having the moon in Uranus?


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## Streathamite (May 17, 2002)

I think I've gotta problem with my cosmic consciousness this morning. maybe it's the aura from a previous life as a buddhist guru


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## William of Walworth (May 17, 2002)

> she's hardly had a friendly reception.



Yes she has!! Eccentric nutcases are GREAT and I love em ... to laugh at ...


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## William of Walworth (May 17, 2002)

*Believe in myths!*

It isn't just that astrology isn't flavour of the month, it's that to any sane and rational person, it's a pile of steaming unsubstantiated never-ever-ever-proven donkey droppings ...


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## Mrs Magpie (May 17, 2002)

Newbie you are right of course, and you did cause me a twinge of guilt, but I would find it even ruder to be featured, without permission, in some mag thousands of miles away with my date of birth published and my perceived personality discussed. He's a public servant, not a fame-hungry L.A. starlet............Brian has had enough of his private life being discussed and lied about in the gutter press and now in an article on Astrology?.......invasion of privacy in my book, so Newbie, although you are right on a don't sink to her level basis IMO, she is damnably rude to ask, even ruder not to ask Brian directly...he works at the Met...a letter would have worked. Not a hard address to discover.

So she's fair game in my book, but you are a much nicer, politer person than me, Newbie. And I'm also sure that you are not menopausal either.


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## newbie (May 17, 2002)

> I'm also sure that you are not menopausal either.



ha, fooled you too 

It may or may not be ethical, but it's pretty inevitable that figures in the public eye get discussed, written about, psychoanalysed, have their thoughts predicted and so on.  

A professional journalist for a mainstream publicaton could probably get basic biographical info from the NSY press office (possibly including DoB) where a fringe interest publication would have more difficulty.  Unless you're particularly supersitious knowledge of the basic detail doesn't seem too much of an invason of privacy- certainly a lot less than some of the other stuff already discussed around here.  I'm not even sure it's rude to ask the question, particularly if your world view includes thinking birth details are important, though I do think asking the man directly is somewhat more polite than asking on a public board.   

William your ability to categorise other people and their belief structures does you nothing but credit.


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## Steve (May 17, 2002)

Astrology? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Detest it, anyone who believes in Astrology is definitely a sandwich short of a picnic. Fight this menace on all fronts whereever you find it, it doesn't even merit the status of an opinion, just total rubbish.


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## Mrs Magpie (May 17, 2002)

Newbie, name, place of birth, date of birth, is enough to see, if not get a birth certificate and other information..............not something that I would divulge to anyone.....I have already had attempts to use my identity fraudulently....they fell down on the date of birth though although the name and address were easy (electoral roll)


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## William of Walworth (May 17, 2002)

Steve I think you should be awarded an Honorary Professorship, nay the Principalship,  at the University of Common Bloody Sense for that utter gem ...


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## newbie (May 17, 2002)

I take your point about identity theft.  Interestingly, I've just done a quick unscientific search and found about 20% of regular (>100) posters show their DoB in their profile.


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## ats (May 17, 2002)

Anyway, if she's that good at astrology, she should have known what sort of reception she'd get.


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## Mrs Magpie (May 17, 2002)

But not mine! Lovely though all those birthday threads are, I'm not giving out that info.........The scariest identity theft attempt I had was when a Health Visitor (I checked her bona fides) came to my door and wanted to see a newborn apparently born to me in my previous married name in Kings a few days before. That was really worrying...............


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## Jazzz (May 17, 2002)

I think we have been a bit hard on JoMo here... she/he just asked for harmless information, and wasn't asking anyone else to sign up to astrology. Birthdays are commonly reported in newspapers.

If support for Paddick is reaching LA then that's good news.

I'd like to read the article!


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## hatboy (May 17, 2002)

Manners everyone please.    JoMo don't be put off. Contact Brian and see what he says.   I'm not too hot on astrology either, but I see no harm in a polite enquiry.


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## Mrs Magpie (May 17, 2002)

Dr J, I am not suggesting that JoMo is asking for info to use fraudulently, BUT it could be and anyway she should ask Brian directly, not us.


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## pooka (May 17, 2002)

Well, I hope I wasn't being rude to JoJo  But I'm not wholly convinced of bona fides. Suggest you read your pm's hatboy and look at the times, the content and the time of JoJo's first post. It would be sad if JoJo had asked Brian, got an understandable rebuff and then tried to find out on here.


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## Anna Key (May 17, 2002)

*astology apology*

I'm sorry too that I was a little sarcastic.

Also (big admission this) I've a friend who's a JUNGIAN ASTROLOGER and always find his take most interesting.

So I'll just say 'Peace Man' and good luck with the article.


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## William of Walworth (May 17, 2002)

*Apologies Jo-Mo ...*

Yeah what the hell .. please feel free to allow your karma to run over my dogma**

**old but gold


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## white rabbit (May 17, 2002)

Well I won't apologise. Astrology is dog toffee and anyone who uses the word "profanity" deserves everything they get.


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## JoMo1953 (May 17, 2002)

Well you ladies and gents have been busy since I last visited....  So most of you hate astrology, Calilfornians and think we are all nut cases.....  Well White Rabbit I guess the "piss take" is on me.....Happy????  How a simple question could stir up so much hatred really baffles me. Our only purpose is to provide a service to our readers.....Personally I think Brian Paddick is terrific and it appears he is getting more than his fair share of bad press.  We are not trying to invade anyones privacy.  Perhaps if we can write something positive it will shed some new light on the controversy. Now if someone would be so kind to inform me what is Brians User name (I have been unable to locate it) on this board I can e-mail him directly and leave you all alone.  Simple request, still hoping someone can help.


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## Caspar Hauser (May 17, 2002)

Er, his username is *Brian*.


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## JoMo1953 (May 17, 2002)

THANK YOU CASPER.......So thankful there are still some gentlemen in England..... We have e-mailed Brian and await his response.  I will leave you all to your bickering now....unless of course I decide I'm due for some punishment.....really I have not had this much fun since my last root canal!!!!


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## Anna Key (May 18, 2002)

*californian rude*



> I have not had this much fun since my last root canal!!!!



I withdraw my apology. Man.


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## Mrs Magpie (May 18, 2002)

You would think that after all those lifetimes of experience she might have sussed that Astrology is the not the path to true enlightenment. Nor priggishness. All fur coat and no knickers methinks.


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## Anna Key (May 18, 2002)

> All fur coat and no knickers



Casper's clearly a gent though. And I bet he can't even PLAY the bagpipes!


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## Mrs Magpie (May 18, 2002)




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## JoMo1953 (May 18, 2002)

*Ladies Please*

Well I've learned two valuable lessons in this chat room....the English hate Americans & Astrologers (for the record I am not the astrologer, I only represent the writers for the magazine) and the English are certainly good at dishing out the dirt but certainly cannot take a little humor in return.  Pity really, it makes your world all the more smaller when you shut people out.  Oh and by the way Ms. Magpie perhaps you should try a little estrogen for your moodiness, .625 mgs. per day should do the trick!!!


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## Anna Key (May 18, 2002)

> Well I've learned two valuable lessons in this chat room....the English hate Americans & Astrologers


Hey that's unfair! I like Americans very much - so long as they're not invading someone else's country - and I admitted earlier my interest in Jungian Astrology.


> the English are certainly good at dishing out the dirt but certainly cannot take a little humor in return.


Again I don't think that's true. I've met numerous yanks who laugh at Hugh Grant, the British Monarchy, plumbing in London hotels, British licensing laws.... what's wrong with making jokes about California? You ARE quite funny...
I won't say anything about your estrogen prescription because I know your patient can look after herself...


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## JoMo1953 (May 18, 2002)

*Okay Anna*

Okay I stand corrected....maybe the English just hate astrologers, or perhaps it's Californians they dislike.  If you had seen the trash posted to my private e-mail address you would understand my total shock to the rudness I have been exposed to.  I am not a "regular" in chat rooms so I was quite taken aback when I posted a simply and polite request and got bombarded with "fuck-off" and "stick it up your arse".  Certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion on astrology, or any subject for that matter, but does everybody have to be rude and nasty......God knows we have enough hatred in this world, lets a least try to be civil to one another.


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## hatboy (May 18, 2002)

I agree with the above. The aggression of other posters' made this forum appear cliquey and populated with petty minded types.  You might not like astrology, but surely at worst it's harmless.  As for taking the piss out of someone (meaning mocking them JoMo) because they are Californian, well that's just stupid.

Hey JoMo - if you were to reveal yourself as a black Californian, how they'd die of embarrassment.

   everyone.


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## JoMo1953 (May 18, 2002)

*California Tan*

Thank you thank you thank you for your show of support.....alas I am not a black californian (pretty tan though) does half Sicilian and half English count for anything???     But as you may know our own (LA) Police Chief Bernard Parks (who is a Black Calilfornian) was kicked out by a bunch of stuffy politicians who know nothing about policing.  Many of us Angelonians are waging a strong fight to get him reinstated even though he decided not to fight the Police Commission and retired.  Kind of the same raw deal that your good Commander Paddick has been receiving.  So you see you Brit's and we in LA do have things in common......


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## white rabbit (May 18, 2002)

As the author of the remarks you took exception to, perhaps I should point out that they weren't meant to apply to you, JoMo. They were supposed to be alternatives to the "sod off" you directed at me. I was merely attempting to suggest a more faithful use of the idiom.

I will freely ridicule astrology because I think it is ridiculous but I rarely try to characterise someone because of where they live or the culture they belong to. In this case, I made no such slight.


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## JoMo1953 (May 18, 2002)

*white rabbit*

I have no problem with your take on astrology and I respect your right to have an opinion....my point was not to single you out but I really was taken aback by the harsh words and treatment....I did not share the private e-mails I received as a result of this thread and they were very nasty....I don't know who or whom sent them there were 9 e-mails in all and it was quite unsettling after asking such a simple question....  Clearly those who e-mailed me privately did not have the guts to air their views in this open forum as you did.....  Yes your are entitled to think that astrology  is bullshit and I am entitled to think otherwise, it does not entitle either of us to be rude or nasty to each other.


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## pooka (May 18, 2002)

Blimey - this still goin on?

I think you're right to be miffed at some of the rudeness, JoJo.

But, Brian Paddick has had a rough ride from the press and no-one here would wish to collude in seeing him set up again. Some of us had visions of "Camp Commander turns Mystic Meg" type stuff. The web being what it is, there is no obvious way of knowing you are who you say you are.

And I'm still puzzled. 

1. Surely an experienced writer/journalist would have looked through the forum and read all the threads that have Brian in the title? I first came to the boards because I'm alocal and was interested what the hoo-haa was about - and that's exactly what I did - and I'm not a journalist.

2.You're first post was at about 3:00 am our time. When I suggested at about 7:00 am that you mail the guy yourself, you pm'ed me to say that you had done so and received abusive emails back "over the hours". So had you emailed him _before_ your first mail, in which case you shouldn't have sought to weedle this info off the boards having had a refusal from your subject. Or you were saying that you'd received these responses from London _after_  your first posting, in  the middle of the night! 

3.Now you pop up hours later, asking for Brian's user name, and announce you've just emailed him!

So, plenty of reasons to be wary off both your good faith and journalistic competence.

And your comment to Mrs M about oestrogen was sexist and ageist - not what we expect from a Californian.


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## Mrs Magpie (May 18, 2002)

No way do I condone abusive emails, I would complain to the senders ISP. Ribbing about astrology is OK though. Especially in California........it's just so Nancy Reagan. Things that are taken very seriously in the USA are ridiculed here (quite rightly, too in my opinion). We just can't help it. Also our keen sense of irony tends to fly straight over Americans heads and they just don't get it..........(Are you SURE you are English?)...this leads to chasms of misunderstandings, but usually much hilarity on our part. 

Pooka is right, we are very protective indeed of our Brian because of the terrible harm he has suffered through journalists. It has also harmed our community. That makes me very angry. We have had LOADS of dodgy journalists trawling the boards and also attempts at setups. This means we are not very fluffy with journalists. To be honest I was totally convinced that you were taking the piss. I can't say that you have convinced me that this isn't a piss-take. I mean......an astrology article in California on policemen? It's like a pitch for a comedy script......just a different mindset us Brits. 

Oh and sod the oestrogen, I like the crabbiness. I was far too passive before! I am very empowered by my crabbiness. (See I even used Californian jargon in that last sentence!)


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## ats (May 18, 2002)

*Mrs Magpie turning into a Californian shock!*

Stop that at once, Mrs Magpie!  There are quite enough Californians in the world already without you turning into one.  We like you crabby and English.


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## Mr Retro (May 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hatboy _
> *Hey JoMo - if you were to reveal yourself as a black Californian, how they'd die of embarrassment.
> 
> everyone. *


#

why


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## septic tank (May 18, 2002)

*Bad California jokes*

Q: How many Californians does it take to screw in a lightbult?
A:Thirty-three million and two. One to hold the torch, one to screw in the lightbulb, and 33 million to whinge that their own deregulation program let Enron screw 'em out of their electric.

Okay, as a native midwesterner, I just can't pass up an opportunity to join in on a piss-take of the Golden Showers State. So here, for your persual, is a regional variation on Ann Winterton's unfortunate aside (with apologies to my mates out there and none for the bigot Tory bastard):

A Texan, a Californian, and a Nevadan are out riding their horses. 

The Texan pulls out a bottle of expensive bourbon, takes a deep draught, and, tossing the bottle into the air, unholsters his shotgun and blows the bottle to smithereens. 

The Californian looks at the Texan, aghast, and says, "What are you doing? That was a perfectly good bottle of whiskey!" The Texan drawls, "In Texas, there's plenty of bourbon and bottles are cheap.” 

Not to be outdone, the Californian produces a bottle of champagne, takes a few delicate sips, tosses the bottle into the air, pulls a pistol and blows the bottle to pieces.

The Nevadan turns agitatedly to the Californian and demands, “What the hell’d you do that for? That was one pricey bottle of champagne!” The Californian replies, “In California, there’s plenty of champagne and bottles are cheap.” 

The Nevadan knits his eyebrows, muses on this for a moment, and opens a bottle of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. He takes a sip, then downs it in one. Gingerly, he places the bottle in his saddlebag, unpacks his sawed-off, and shoots the Californian.

Mouth agape, the Texan turns to the Nevadan and says, “Now why in tarnation’d you have to go and do that?”

The Nevadan cracks a wry smile and says, “Well, sir, in Nevada, Californians are a dime a dozen, and bottles’re worth a nickel.”

Just takin' the mickey, JoMo. Some of my best friends are Californians. Y'all might be a little bit wierd, but apart from the posh plastic GOP scum of Beverly Hills and Orange County, yer alright with me. This rabble might seem a bit gruff, but the right-wing tabloids antics around the Paddick business has got us all a bit sensitive, so don't take the ribbing hard and good luck with Bernie Parks.


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## JoMo1953 (May 18, 2002)

*Answer to Pooka*

Good questions and I understand your concern....I am not the astrologer or a journalist.  I represent the group of writers and I was given the task of contacting Brian Paddick and/or finding out his DOB, bio info.  Initially I was given two e-mail addresses that were said to be Brian's.  Neither one of those e-mails belong to your good commander and it appears someone is spreading  bad info with other peoples e-mail addresses. I am glad to see such support and protection of Brian Paddick as it clearly appears he has been getting a really bad shake in the press of late.  Oddly enough every time we initiated a search on the web for Brian Paddick this web site came up so after trying other methods we decided to pose the questions to you readers.  The powers to be in Scotland Yard and/or the MET have put a seal on Brian's info this may or may not be of his doing, my guess is they are trying to cover their own asses!!  We in LA no all too well what damage the press can do.....

As of this writing Brian has not read the e-mail I sent to him, or at least thats what the system indicates.....I hope he's out doing something fun and exciting instead of stuck in an office working.  I always try the source first, I believe that people have the right to say yes or no.  If his response is no we will do the article without him....which would be a shame since I really believe it would be a positive thing.  I hope I was able to alleviate your concerns.


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## JoMo1953 (May 18, 2002)

*Ms. Magpie*

I'll stick with my estrogen....it was the hot flashes that did me in... your coming close to being an honarary Californian...and yes I really am half English....my ancestors were from the Bedfordshire area which I have visited on two occassion and found very delightful, Kingston was the best....  I guess maybe it's the Sicilian half of me that put people off........


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## Clapham Omnibus (May 19, 2002)

JoMo1953
This is on the main a friendly site of Forums. Users post here with discretion and non abuse. However your post brings me back to my school days.


We enjoy a good and mindful debate of peeps we have yet to find the other Martian the first was in my 4th year secondary scool. 

Well so me at school on the Ouija board the teachers said when I left school  I would not get up to much.

The school was demolished and I am stiil here!

If You know next weeks LOTTO Nrs or the 2-30 on trhe horses so let me know a week before though.

Enjoy this discussion group and don't brass people off untiil you are known on line. I would welcome a post from the US so, long as it was worth takling about. Say Films or something like that.
Regs


PS How much would you pay to insure a  Light Saber in the US
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU


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## JoMo1953 (May 19, 2002)

So I gather your not an astrology fan.....sorry don't know the lotto numbers but I always bet on the long shot in the ninth race to Show!!!!  Works for me.


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## Mikee (May 20, 2002)

*Great thread*

Thanks for making me laugh

I'm off down the pub 

Astrology!!!!!!! My life, whatever next??


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## BL2ALLb (May 20, 2002)

Could we do a swopsies...........can we have the BOD and personnal info on some of your coppers........in exchange     especially that IDIOT one that was over not so long ago.....???

We then all could send him birthady cards



  The fat zero tolerence one that tried to brainwash Hellhole.(see spellcheck)

Oh + why on line....can i state...HELLEWELL YOU ARE SO UGLY >>>GO + TAKE SOME DRUGS!!!!


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## Eddie E (May 20, 2002)

Hi JoMo1953
The Yard wasn't doing any different to protect Brian than their normal operation.  They will never give out home address, E mail or telephone contacts for serving or retired police officers.
What they will do is to forward on any letter you send to them.  This takes no more than a couple of days once arrived at the Yard.
Send him a letter
Regards
Eddie E


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## wildwildlifer (May 20, 2002)

originally posted by Hatboy
"Hey Jo-Mo, if you were to reveal yourself as a black californian- how they'd die of embarrassment"


> _Originally posted by Mr Retro _
> *#
> 
> why *


and again, why?


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## hatboy (May 20, 2002)

I was just having a dig really. People here are generally non-racist, but felt happy it seems to take the piss out of a Californian.


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## Masseuse (May 20, 2002)

I think Astrology sounds really interesting.

(runs and hides)


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## JoMo1953 (May 20, 2002)

*Masseuse*

You are a Brave Soul.........


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## Peter Matisse (May 20, 2002)

(In best Noel Coward voice)

My dears it's perfectly obvious here, that Venus is irritating Uranus.


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## white rabbit (May 20, 2002)

Of course it's quite reasonable to suppose that the totally predictable movement of the planets of our solar system in relation to the Earth has a direct relation to events that happen to the people who live there. No matter how disconnected or arbitrary your life feels it can, in fact, be modelled quite satisfactorially according to the relative positions of these planets. Cynics who complain that this is mumbo jumbo dreamed up for the gullible are lost in their own world of "rationalism" to the point where the obvious become obscure. Those who argue that it is "an intellectual dead-end" or "an escape from reality" merely expose their own foolishness.


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## ats (May 20, 2002)

It seems quite straightforward that bodies moving in a regular motion and exercising a minor gravitational attraction should have an influence on our psychology and future.

Thus, if we knew exactly where Brian lived, we would be able to predict many important things from a study of the appropriate bus timetables.

(The paranormal influence of transport is often underrated.  How many people realise that all the railway stations in this country are connected by mysterious lines of force?)




(Edited twice to get the spelling of 'appropriate' right.)


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## septic tank (May 21, 2002)

Hmm. I'm hardly an apologist for astrology, but when I worked down on the funny farm, I did find that everybody got very perceptibly nuttier on a full moon and when they changed the meds. So fine, that much makes sense. The hither- and tither of the moon exerts an influence on the tides, which in turn influences brain chemistry somehow. All that pent-up dopamine and serotonin just gets up and parties, and so in turn do we. 

So that's pretty empirically sussed. But what's Jupiter, Mars or Pluto got to say about shit? What have they ever influenced aside from the fevered imaginations of the ancients and their descendants in Cali? I mean, archetypes are nice and all, rendering as they do meaning to our chaotic little worlds. But is there any scientific basis, however far-fetched, for astrology?


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## JoMo1953 (May 21, 2002)

3 of my favorite quotes on the Subject of Astrology:

"Astrology is the science of predicting the furture through ovservations of the stars" -- Larousse

"The Longest lasting and the most universal religion in the whole epoch of humanity" -- Berthelot

and finally (this one's for you white rabbit)

"Astrology: It is the longest illness ever to have afflicted reason"
 -- Bailly


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## Mrs Magpie (May 21, 2002)

I can accept that the magnetic pull of the moon affects things eg tides and also empirical stuff that I KNOW to be true...eg women living uninterrupted by travel in the same geographical area tend to have their periods at the same time (ask any family of several women, or nuns, or chemists in small towns) and so on but otherwise I part company with the whole astrology kit and kaboodle.........

I can say though that JoMo is being pulled (despite an initially hostile reception) towards Urban75, and possibly Brixton....well hey, those of us that live here know that it is the centre of the universe, natch. Hows that for a gravitational force?


----------



## Masseuse (May 21, 2002)

I guess I find the concept of Astrology interesting because it links in with my general philosophy on life i.e. everything being interconnected.  The moon affecting tides is a good example - and we are 70% water just as the earth is, so it must affect us in some way too.  All the planets exert a gravitational pull on each other, so in turn this must have some kind of effect.
Whether Astrology is accurate in saying what this effect is, who knows?  I think the comparison to religion is very interesting, it is after all, one of the most ancient ways of man attempting to make sense of his surroundings and life in general.  When something has been around for thousands of years I tend not to dismiss it out of hand.
Anyway, I have very little knowledge on the subject, I guess it is on my "to do" list.  I'm naturally sympathetic to many esoteric pursuits as I feel they add a bit of wonder to life - a purely rational approach to things gets a little dull after a while.

I do think U75ers can get quite vicious for no good reason.  Just because you think someone may be misguided doesn't mean you should administer a big cliquey beating.

Hugs to all Virgos!


----------



## William of Walworth (May 21, 2002)

Cheers darling .... <even though I don't believe in it, my birthday is late in August!  >

I'm feeling a  bit ashamed of being harsh on Jo-Mo earlier so please accept my apols again ... still think it's all cobblers though


----------



## pooka (May 21, 2002)

I thought the synchronised periods stuff was to do with pheromones, not gravity? I believe there is some slight though significant correlation between the time of year kids are born and their subsequent aptidudes, but that may be down to environment factors (light, temperature etc) during their early months and indeed pre-birth,

Otherwise, I'm sceptical.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (May 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Masseuse _
> *I do think U75ers can get quite vicious for no good reason.  Just because you think someone may be misguided doesn't mean you should administer a big cliquey beating.*



to be fair, the astrology was just a handy stick for the cliquey beating, but it was actually motivated by a protectiveness towards Brian Paddick..............which is fair......look at the size of the carrot (£100,000) attached to the stick that initially beat up our Brian...........when journalists post asking for info about Brian, we tend to close ranks.......


----------



## Caspar Hauser (May 21, 2002)

I was nice to her.  
But I only got grief for it from Anna Key and Mrs M.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (May 21, 2002)

I didn't give you grief did I?........


----------



## Caspar Hauser (May 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Anna Key _
> *
> 
> Casper's clearly a gent though. And I bet he can't even PLAY the bagpipes! *





> _Originally posted by Mrs Magpie _
> * *



Poor me.  

But maybe I just didn't understand Anna Key's post.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (May 21, 2002)

Aaah that! A daft private joke from another thread! It's not anti- Caspar, it's anti-bagpipe.  Perhaps this will explain.....

A gentleman is someone that knows how to play the bagpipes, but doesn't.


----------



## Caspar Hauser (May 21, 2002)

Ah thanks Mrs M. for explaining, as a poor foreigner I didn't get the joke.  
I know though it wasn't anti Caspar, I just like to lament and complain.


----------



## pooka (May 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Caspar Hauser _
> *I just like to lament and complain.  *



Ideal qualifications for a bagpipe player!


----------



## BL2ALLb (May 21, 2002)

astrology........when there is a full moon...there are more incidents...call outs.......miscarriages......lunar/tidal cycle.

seasonal...........activities...leisure...events...........festivities

and on a full moon the crowd are.......????????

As a commander.........many things have to be considered.......

as for astrology cant see the stars throo the smoke at the mo.

Each Commandor is different with a different patch........Brians is busy Brixton..............and he like other Policemen has noticed that the current Policing .........in particular areas of drug consumption is uneffective in practice. 

He also has 'communicated'.....as it is a topic that can and does directly or indirectly effect people and the quality of life. He had foresight to see this as a viable medium to debate......an act man does since the beginning of time.............under the very same stars. Check out some of the UK Police Sites.........


----------



## Jazzz (May 22, 2002)

It's true that the moon influences periods. Women in groups will syncronise their periods and then they tend to match the phases of the lunar cycle.
menstruation.com! 


edited to add...

confess I've just been doing more searching and can't find any satisfactory evidence for this assertion! still think it's true though.


----------



## white rabbit (May 22, 2002)

I'm with pooka on this. My understanding is that it's pheremones. It makes a lot of sense too. If it was down to the Moon, women would synchronise whether they were in proximity or not but it's only when they're together in sniffing distance as it were. The 28 day cycle of the moon (actually I _think_ it's 29.something - may be wrong there) is *fixed*. It has slowed down over time but *very* gradually. Women's menstrual cycles *fluctuate* around an average of 28 days.

The Sun and the Moon exert a palpable influence on the Earth. The other planets less so. I'm not sure you'd be able to point to an effect of Mars or Venus never mind the outer planets (some of which were unknown before about 70 years ago, btw). But to extrapolate that to some underlying celestial influence is pushing it imo.


----------



## BL2ALLb (May 22, 2002)

Statistically..........more Doctors are called out.....more ambulances....paramedics........police.........+ emergency services......

the word lunatic?...............

Pyramids were aligned to the stars..Stonehenge.........and the planet earth is as well................

we are mere microscopic molacules of so far short existence...........

Meanwhile..............there are also a bunch of humans....genetically, biologically, behavourally.........driven???????

Phew.....who can predict anything?


----------



## Anna Key (May 22, 2002)

*your stars*



> _Originally posted by BL2ALLb _
> Phew.....who can predict anything?


I can.

That a lot of nincompoops will read their stars in today's papers.


----------



## BL2ALLb (May 22, 2002)

Dont buy papers anymore.............or mags. Or Tv. News via this. Scan .....but looking mainly for facts. Dont have time for horoscopes......standard mathematical formular.......presented with different styles....nothing new......

Maybe have a peak at the stars with this as well....explore.

Coppers are only human. They have hobbies...interests...beliefs.....influences....backgrounds.........upbringings......much the same as others......then training. I doubt that they are encouraged to read horoscopes.


----------



## JoMo1953 (May 22, 2002)

Okay people fess up...  How many of you DO read your horoscopes??  

I think I should change the name of this thread to:

ASTROLOGY:  Bullshit or Brilliance


----------



## William of Walworth (May 22, 2002)

*For obvious reasons ...*

... almost never at all ... helps that the Guardian and Observer are the only (?) daily and Sunday papers without them .. I think even the Independent and Times have succombed .. perhaps the Morning Star hasn't


----------



## Anna Key (May 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BL2ALLb _
> Coppers are only human... I doubt that they are encouraged to read horoscopes.


Police Gazette
Horoscope

Gemini

"Today, with Mercury and Mars in conjunction, you should pay close attention to truncheon technique. Eat a good fry-up before leaving the station and be aware of your position in cateen culture. When out on patrol, black is today's colour so bare this in mind when stopping and searching."

*Call the Police Federation Horoscope Hotline today!*


----------



## BL2ALLb (May 22, 2002)

But back to Brian..............and stars......

imagine being a top copper.....and your men ring up...........and tell you that theyve just shot someone......by mistake...........!!!

"What do you mean you were out with guns at 4 in the morning .....boys"....................

And film footage ......it took the cops awhile to work out who was robbing the drugs they were watching................

some time later.......oh it was another squad! Tut.....tut. 

Corruption...................a problem for commandors as well.........being in charge of.?????????? hoping they are all behaving themselves..........

Racism is an old problem. Alton Manning....may he RIP.......HMP Blakenhurst..uniformed thugs out of control....KILLED him. Officers still working as far as I know.


----------



## kea (May 22, 2002)

i read my horoscope - i'm on the border between sagittarius and capricorn, so i read both and pick out the good bits, and ignore the rest!! an unscientific approach, but it works for me ....


----------



## Jazzz (May 22, 2002)

reluctant lol at Anna K.  

'today.... you will meet a tall, dark criminal'


----------



## The Creeper (May 22, 2002)

*Jesus*

Jesus healed the sick, turned water into wine and walked on water.  Typical Capricorn!


----------



## Yossarian (May 22, 2002)

It's a bit of an urban myth about all that full moon business...but I suppose that's what you'd expect a site called skeptic.com to say...


----------



## Jazzz (May 22, 2002)

I remember a report of BT saying that the lunar cycle was influencing telephone behaviour.... as full moon approached there were more telephone calls.

This would be the kind of massive sample needed. Anyone know about this?

find out today's moon phase!   (currently waxing-gibbous at time of editing)


----------



## BL2ALLb (May 22, 2002)

and some count them moons after meeting boys in blue.......

and the boys in blue sign off .......

my birthday i remember something .....Hiroshima.........on TV every birthday....what a sight to see....astrology............manmade


----------



## septic tank (May 22, 2002)

Bwaaahahaha! Nice one, Anna Key. 

From the Madame Fraternal Order of Police, NYPD:

Pigasus, 1 Jan-31 Dec
"With the confluence of Mars and Uranus, Pigasus' trigger finger may feel a little extra itchy. Beware civil rights lawyers bearing briefs and keep your plunger dry."


----------



## William of Walworth (May 23, 2002)

*Nice one Yoss!*

Skeptic.com is fuckin crucial ...


----------



## JoMo1953 (May 23, 2002)

*WARNING WARNING WARNING*

Full Moon is coming up this weekend  on the 26th, coupled with the double whammey  of an eclipse (Yikes)

It's Howling Time Boy & Girls!!!


----------



## BL2ALLb (May 23, 2002)

Full force ....get busy............hold on tight. Keep the vibe alive. Broom sticks ready + cat is smiling.


----------



## Jazzz (May 23, 2002)

<edited for double post below>


----------



## Jazzz (May 23, 2002)

I thought the skeptic.com site pretty unimpressive. Their main focus seemed to be that some guys had analysed loads of studies purporting to show a link, and decided (probably quite rightly) that they didn't do enough to prove a link.

This may be the case, but it doesn't do anything to prove that there is no link.

And the data at the end did have the peak drunkeness two days before the moon on both occasions of the cycle! Obviously it's not possible to draw anything firm on sketchy data.

I am still undecided on this one.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2007)

Lol at reading these old threads!


----------



## Crispy (Aug 1, 2007)

So why bump it?


----------



## bluestreak (Aug 1, 2007)

you have to admit it was an entertaining blast from the past.


----------



## Brian (Aug 1, 2007)

Sometimes Wikepedia can be useful -hint, hint!


----------



## Brian (Aug 1, 2007)

Sorry that should be still local ex-policeman!


----------



## Brian (Aug 1, 2007)

There we are, that's better


----------



## Stobart Stopper (Aug 1, 2007)

You don't have time to post on here! You have a book to write!


----------



## Brian (Aug 1, 2007)

*The Book*

70,000 words & climbing!  It's my coffee break!


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 1, 2007)

Cocaine break


----------



## JHE (Aug 1, 2007)

Any truth in the idea that you want to stand in the London mayoral election?

(You'd lose, if you did, IMO.)


----------



## bluestreak (Aug 2, 2007)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Cocaine break




allegedly.




Brian, do you have a gang of monkeys constantly lurking on urban in order to inform you to pop up whenever you're mentioned and never at any other time, or are you just psychic?


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2007)

bluestreak said:
			
		

> Brian, do you have a gang of monkeys constantly lurking on urban in order to inform you to pop up whenever you're mentioned and never at any other time, or are you just psychic?


Don't know about that, but there sure used to be a gang of media monkeys hanging around and looking to stoke the fire when it all kicked off.


----------



## bluestreak (Aug 2, 2007)

*waves to the daily mail*

actually, i haven't managed to get my current alter-ego OR face in the daily mail in years.  it's kind of depressing.  i think a peter cook style letter-writing campaign may be in order.


----------



## Stobart Stopper (Jan 29, 2008)

Brian said:


> 70,000 words & climbing!  It's my coffee break!



Have you finished it yet? Hurry up!


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 29, 2008)

Stobart Stopper said:


> Have you finished it yet? Hurry up!



Blackwells have a publication date of 25 March, and I don't think it has been printed yet.







However, it is available to "pre-order" on Amazon at half price:


----------



## Dan U (Jan 29, 2008)

is he going to publish a book and lose an election so close together?

Book will be interesting i imagine.


----------



## Brian (Jan 29, 2008)

*All done*

Had to edit it down from 130,000 to 100,000 words but it's a right riveting read!  All done now (took 12 hours with the lawyers for the libel check!)  Lot's of people can't wait to read it...especially at Scotland Yard!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 29, 2008)

Brian said:


> Had to edit it down from 130,000 to 100,000 words but it's a right riveting read! All done now (took 12 hours with the lawyers for the libel check!) Lot's of people can't wait to read it...especially at Scotland Yard!


 
Hello Brian

Do you still wear uniform?  Were you in Dean Farrer Street the other day?


----------



## Dan U (Jan 29, 2008)

as if by magic


----------



## Badger Kitten (Jan 29, 2008)

Brian said:


> Had to edit it down from 130,000 to 100,000 words but it's a right riveting read!  All done now (took 12 hours with the lawyers for the libel check!)  Lot's of people can't wait to read it...especially at Scotland Yard!



 I have pre-ordered it, looking forward to it. 

 I will be voting for you as well. and have urged my readers of my blog to as well 

And a big thank you from the 7/7 Inquiry group ( survivors and bereaved pushing for independent inquiry into London bombings) for your comments in support of one


----------



## the button (Jan 29, 2008)

You and Brian have something else in common, eh, BK.


----------



## cesare (Jan 29, 2008)

You looked right bloody miserable on this photo of you on that Police Demonstration, Brian. Compared to Barnbrook mere metres to your side at the front of the march, looking right (ho ho ho) cheery, sporting his name badge.

Did the camera catch you at a bad moment?


----------



## Brian (Jan 30, 2008)

*Don't like racists*

I had realised by then that he was there 

(was in Dean Farrar the other day...no I gave all my uniform back)


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2008)

Brian said:


> I had realised by then that he was there


As a (ahem) fellow published author, may I wish you good luck with your book.

Are we in it?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

Brian, what if anything do you expect will turn your poll rating around?


----------



## Badger Kitten (Jan 30, 2008)

I just realised my post looks really lick-arse, ah well.


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Brian said:


> I had realised by then that he was there



You should say something then! There's folks (potential voters) around that think your public silence amounts to condoning. It's not too late to make your views clear even if you marched at the front virtually side by side with him.

Given the pitiful public levels of support for that demonstration, wouldn't you have done better to make a stance on the racist issue 'hence appealing to hearts and minds' (always a winner, that phrase) of the London electorate?

At least Ken and Boris didn't even turn up.


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

He's gone now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

Maybe my question scared him off...


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Maybe my question scared him off...



Yeah that was fucking tough compared to mine, tbh.


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Maybe my question scared him off...



Kid Eternity, earlier


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

We should run a Mori type urban poll. What's more likely to result in Brian exiting his thread:

(a) Kid Eternity's searching question about turning poll ratings around; or

(b) Cesare's enquiry about Brian marching side by side with the BNP candidate.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

the button said:


> Kid Eternity, earlier





It was a genuine question too, he's polling very badly almost 8% I think. It's a two horse race right now. 

Damn shame because I was hoping he'd bring some sensibility to the debate consumed with Ken's alleged dodgy dealings and Bojo who looks more clever pr than anything else.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> We should run a Mori type urban poll. What's more likely to result in Brian exiting his thread:
> 
> (a) Kid Eternity's searching question about turning poll ratings around; or
> 
> (b) Cesare's enquiry about Brian marching side by side with the BNP candidate.



You just asked that so you could use the cool knew smiley didn't you.


----------



## Wookey (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Are we in it?






You hewer.


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It was a genuine question too, he's polling very badly almost 8% I think. It's a two horse race right now.
> 
> Damn shame because I was hoping he'd bring some sensibility to the debate consumed with Ken's alleged dodgy dealings and Bojo who looks more clever pr than anything else.


He might get a bit of a bounce once people arrive in the polling booth, don't want to vote for Ken, but can't stomach voting for a Tory. 

And I say this with the near-total ignorance of electoral politics of the 37 year-old who's never voted in his life. 

EDIT: Then again, such people might not be arsed to vote in the first place. Hats off to them, I say.


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You just asked that so you could use the cool knew smiley didn't you.



I've been importing that smiley for ages, but yes I luvvers the new convenience of it 

It was a serious question though, he looks like he's aligned himself with Barnbrook and in the absence of anything specific to the contrary, made it look as if his support for his police chums took precedence over any alleged anti-racist stance that he might have.


----------



## Badger Kitten (Jan 30, 2008)

I thought he was excellent in both the TV debate thingies.
Boris may add to the gaiety of the nation but he is an idiot. Ken is tiresome. Brian gets my vote.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> It was a serious question though, he looks like he's aligned himself with Barnbrook and in the absence of anything specific to the contrary, made it look as if his support for his police chums took precedence over any alleged anti-racist stance that he might have.



Yep I think you may be onto something there; Boris (like most Tories) is seriously weak on racism so attacking him that would force Bojo into a war on two fronts against Paddick and Ken on the issue.


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> Boris may add to the gaiety of the nation


I think Brian's done his bit for gaiety as well, tbh. 

Although in that pic, it's Barnbrook that looks the most delighted about being surrounded by burly blokes.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 30, 2008)

edit


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> I thought he was excellent in both the TV debate thingies.
> Boris may add to the gaiety of the nation but he is an idiot. Ken is tiresome. Brian gets my vote.



Personally I don't really care about TV debates. Actions speak louder than words - and Brian was up there heading the march with the BNP candidate.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> I thought he was excellent in both the TV debate thingies.
> Boris may add to the gaiety of the nation but he is an idiot. Ken is tiresome. Brian gets my vote.



Excellent? That seems a little charitable. He lost points because he relied so heavily on notes and sounded too scripted as a result (even if he was making some good points); the other two came across more self assured because they had their brief down pat.


----------



## Badger Kitten (Jan 30, 2008)

Afaik he was just marching. Not marching '*with *the BNP candidate. I mean, if I go shopping in Superdrug and in the queue in front of me is  some arse from the BNP, am I ''shopping with the BNP supporte''r?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 30, 2008)

edit


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> Afaik he was just marching. Not marching '*with *the BNP candidate. I mean, if I go shopping in Superdrug and in the queue in front of me is  some arse from the BNP, am I ''shopping with the BNP supporte''r?



I think the point was the minute he knew about it he should have released a press release condemning the fascist scum....


----------



## Badger Kitten (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Excellent? That seems a little charitable. He lost points because he relied so heavily on notes and sounded too scripted as a result (even if he was making some good points); the other two came across more self assured because they had their brief down pat.



The other two just ripped strips off each other in a tiresome, personal way.
Brian did not come ver as a ranty career chippy politico, he came over as a serious bloke who had swotted up and was slightly nervous but committed and well-informed; much better IMO


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep I think you may be onto something there; Boris (like most Tories) is seriously weak on racism so attacking him that would force Bojo into a war on two fronts against Paddick and Ken on the issue.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> You looked right bloody miserable on this photo of you on that Police Demonstration, Brian. Compared to Barnbrook mere metres to your side at the front of the march, looking right (ho ho ho) cheery, sporting his name badge.
> 
> Did the camera catch you at a bad moment?



Is baseball popular in britain? What's with all the baseball caps?


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> Afaik he was just marching. Not marching '*with *the BNP candidate. I mean, if I go shopping in Superdrug and in the queue in front of me is  some arse from the BNP, am I ''shopping with the BNP supporte''r?



If I was a Mayoral candidate with a background as a senior policeman I'd be bloody careful about (a) reinforcing perceptions of institutionalised racism in the police force - and by leading the march with the BNP candidate, my own position in relation to that ; and (b) turning up to a Police Demo in the first place.

Ken's a wilier politician and it probably didn't even occur to poor Boris.


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Is baseball popular in britain? What's with all the baseball caps?



Fuck knows. I think they may have been trying to distinguish the off-duty marching OB from the on-duty OB trying to stop the 10 Class War counter demonstrators 

Making sure they wore white hats instead of multi coloured ones - of course


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> Afaik he was just marching. Not marching '*with *the BNP candidate. I mean, if I go shopping in Superdrug and in the queue in front of me is  some arse from the BNP, am I ''shopping with the BNP supporte''r?


Yes. Yes you are. And I dare say Richard & Judy might have something to say about it too.

No but seriously though. You can tell from the pic -- and also from his post on this thread -- that he wasn't too happy about the BNP candidate turning up on the march. He's had ample opportunity to make that known, and -- as far as his campaign for mayor goes -- that strikes me as an opportunity missed. 

To be fair, there is this from the Evening Standard: -



> Mr Paddick said: "I felt very uncomfortable that there was someone from the BNP. I was aware of him being there and I pointed it out to federation officials but there was nothing more that I could do. I was very uncomfortable that he was anywhere near me."



but that's hardly a proactive approach, and the fact that I had to google it to find out if he's said owt (as someone who listens to the Today programme & PM on the radio almost every day) kind of demonstrates that it's not a high-profile thing.


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

> Mr Paddick said: "I felt very uncomfortable that there was someone from the BNP. I was aware of him being there and I pointed it out to federation officials but there was nothing more that I could do. I was very uncomfortable that he was anywhere near me."



_"All I could do was point it out to someone that could register a mild complaint of mine if I was ever challenged on it, and continue marching next to him at the front of the Demo"_


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> _"All I could do was point it out to someone that could register a mild complaint of mine if I was ever challenged on it, and continue marching next to him at the front of the Demo"_


He is the liberal candidate, after all.

*scarpers*


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> _"All I could do was point it out to someone that could register a mild complaint of mine if I was ever challenged on it, and continue marching next to him at the front of the Demo"_


What did you expect him to do? Deck him?


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> What did you expect him to do? Deck him?



Would have been nice, and might have got him a few more votes, but no, not really.

But maybe a press release/round of interviews or summat. Of course this would have drawn even more attention to the fact that Barnbrook was on the march in the first place, so I suppose it comes down to a political cost/benefit analysis along the lines of: -

Which is best for me politically? Do I...

a) publicly & vocally disassociate myself from the BNP, or
b) publicly & vocally disassociate myself from a police march that entertained a BNP mayoral candidate on it?


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> What did you expect him to do? Deck him?



Blimey, that would be a violent response editor, that may have resulted in his own arrest from the non white only baseball capped cops 

Walking off in a public huff would have sufficed & giving interviews about it later would have been sufficient.

After all, I'm sure he wouldn't want to give the impression that the OB support violence such as (for the sake of example) headshots to random Brazilians now, would we?


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

*notes that there are currently more posters in the Brixton forum than there is in General*


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

*waves to journalists*


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2008)

the button said:


> Which is best for me politically? Do I...
> 
> a) publicly & vocally disassociate myself from the BNP, or
> b) publicly & vocally disassociate myself from a police march that entertained a BNP mayoral candidate on it?


'Course there's always the danger that by doing either of the above he would only have ended up generating some juicy publicity for the BNP.

Do you think that Paddick really needs to vocally disassociate himself from the BNP, given his past record?


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Another exclusive for Urban75 on the Brixton forum


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> The other two just ripped strips off each other in a tiresome, personal way.
> Brian did not come ver as a ranty career chippy politico, he came over as a serious bloke who had swotted up and was slightly nervous but committed and well-informed; much better IMO



Agree that the conduct of the other too was negative but think you're view of Paddick's performance isn't one shared widely within the electorate. He's got a real challenge on his hands if he wants to make more than a dent in this election.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> 'Course there's always the danger that by doing either of the above he would only have ended up generating some juicy publicity for the BNP.
> 
> Do you think that Paddick really needs to vocally disassociate himself from the BNP, given his past record?



What's his record on fighting racism?


(genuine question)


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Do you think that Paddick really needs to vocally disassociate himself from the BNP, given his past record?


What past record? Or, more accurately, what past record that people know about outside the crazy world of Urban75/Brixton? 

The thing is, Brian & his doings are probably a bit more known to U75 posters (and to Brixton residents) than they are to the London electorate. This past record of his might be worth reiterating.

I haven't lived in Brixton since (*counts on fingers*) 2002, and I remember the petitions in shops & that when he was suspended, but as to any "past record", I must admit my memory evades me. Not saying he hasn't got one or owt.


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's his record on fighting racism?
> 
> 
> (genuine question)



Yeah, that's what I meant, I just took longer about it.

Fucking Paxman.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

the button said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant, I just took longer about it.
> 
> Fucking Paxman.


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Did you _threaten_ to over-rule him?


Fixed.


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Tbh, I thought he was a jolly nice bloke when I met him in the Albert. I was going to vote for him on the basis of that, dammit, until this escapade


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

the button said:


> Fixed.


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> Tbh, I thought he was a jolly nice bloke when I met him in the Albert. I was going to vote for him on the basis of that, dammit, until this escapade


I saw Boris Johnson on his bike and was going to vote for him on the same basis, but then I remembered that a) I'm an anarchist, & don't vote on principle and b) he's a cunt.

This democracy lark's a fucking minefield.


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

the button said:


> I saw Boris Johnson on his bike and was going to vote for him on the same basis, but then I remembered that a) I'm an anarchist, & don't vote on principle and b) he's a cunt.
> 
> This democracy lark's a fucking minefield.



I'm sorry button but you can't be a proper anarchist unless you went out on that anarchist thing to topple Boris off his bike. You didn't did you? Admit it.


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> I'm sorry button but you can't be a proper anarchist unless you went out on that anarchist thing to topple Boris off his bike. You didn't did you? Admit it.



I am teh charlatan.


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

the button said:


> I am teh charlatan.



I reckon Brian's knobbled you to derail the thread to Boris


----------



## soulman (Jan 30, 2008)

Brian said:


> I had realised by then that he was there
> 
> (was in Dean Farrar the other day...no I gave all my uniform back)



Were you powerless to resist his cheeky charm?


----------



## the button (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> I reckon Brian's knobbed you to derail the thread to Boris


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> I reckon Brian's knobbled you to derail the thread to Boris



Whoa!


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

the button said:


>




Button's gonna get banned


----------



## Bob (Jan 30, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> Afaik he was just marching. Not marching '*with *the BNP candidate. I mean, if I go shopping in Superdrug and in the queue in front of me is  some arse from the BNP, am I ''shopping with the BNP supporte''r?



Exactly - this is from the coverage afterwards.



> Mr Paddick said: "I felt very uncomfortable that there was someone from the BNP. I was aware of him being there and I pointed it out to federation officials but there was nothing more that I could do. I was very uncomfortable that he was anywhere near me."



Incidentally I'd imagine that the BNP probably somewhat dislike Brian given that he's a) liberal and b) gay.


----------



## Bob (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> You should say something then! There's folks (potential voters) around that think your public silence amounts to condoning. It's not too late to make your views clear even if you marched at the front virtually side by side with him.



I think you'll find that Brian's pretty busy running to be Mayor so I doubt he's been on urban for a while.


----------



## lang rabbie (Jan 30, 2008)

If this fellow protestor had still been fit enough to be at the head of the march, would anyone have been suggesting that he should have decked Barnbrook


----------



## Dan U (Jan 30, 2008)

cesare said:


> Personally I don't really care about TV debates. Actions speak louder than words - and Brian was up there heading the march with the BNP candidate.



what is he supposed to do 

the BNP candidate has as much right, in our democracy, as any other candidate to be there.

i'd rather cunts like that weren't their but keep em where you can see em.

i'd be getting upset at the head of the police unions failure to condemn him, not someone like Paddick.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

Dan U said:


> what is he supposed to do
> 
> the BNP candidate has as much right, in our democracy, as any other candidate to be there.
> 
> ...



I think you, bob and BK are missing the point by a country mile...


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Bob said:


> I think you'll find that Brian's pretty busy running to be Mayor so I doubt he's been on urban for a while.



He was on here last night - that's why I was discussing it with him!


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think you, bob and BK are missing the point by a country mile...




Yep.


----------



## smokedout (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's his record on fighting racism?
> 
> 
> (genuine question)



3 black deaths in custody whilst in charge of lambeth

a softly softly approach to white middle class drug users to free up resources to target the black community

very heavy and aggresive policing of the movement for justice anti-racist marches

coming onto a (sorry) largely white, middle class message board to discuss policing in brixton rather than engaging with the local working class

marching next to a bnp counsellor


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2008)

smokedout said:


> a softly softly approach to white middle class drug users to free up resources to target the black community


Do you think the black community didn't want to see the back of crack and smack dealing as well?


smokedout said:


> marching next to a bnp counsellor


Now that's _desperate._


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Do you think the black community didn't want to see the back of crack and smack dealing as well?
> Now that's _desperate._



What's his record on fighting racism?


----------



## smokedout (Jan 30, 2008)

he doesnt have one


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 30, 2008)

smokedout said:


> 3 black deaths in custody whilst in charge of lambeth
> 
> a softly softly approach to white middle class drug users to free up resources to target the black community
> 
> ...


I don't support Paddick but the above is shit-stirring and smearing.

You don't make a single argument, it's all behind the hand whispering.

Really, really shit.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's his record on fighting racism?


Why don't you look it up?

As Brixton resident, I _know_ he made a difference and I saw the unprecedented support he got from the black community. 

Did you go to the Town Hall meeting?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Why don't you look it up?
> 
> As Brixton resident, I _know_ he made a difference and I know the unprecedented support he got from the black community.
> 
> That's good enough for me.



Why don't you answer the question? 

I'm genuinely interested to know what you're basing it on. How do you know he made a difference?


----------



## Fedayn (Jan 30, 2008)

Bob said:


> Incidentally I'd imagine that the BNP probably somewhat dislike Brian given that he's a) liberal and b) gay.




Oh I dunno, I reckon Barnbrook is wondering if Paddick would like to appear in another one of his obviously non-homoerotic art films in the same vein as HMS Discovery! Only if his marriage to the ballerina goes tits up of course?!


----------



## smokedout (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Why don't you look it up?
> 
> As Brixton resident, I _know_ he made a difference and I saw the unprecedented support he got from the black community.
> 
> Did you go to the Town Hall meeting?



would that be black community who repeatedly demonstrated against him?

i went to several of the police consultative group meetings including the one where he did his jesus routine, was the whitest event ive ever seen in brixton

in fact the only black people their were the family of ricky bishop who turned up to have a go at him


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2008)

smokedout said:


> would that be black community who repeatedly demonstrated against him?


I don't recall any anti-Paddick demos. Could you give me some details please?


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm genuinely interested to know what you're basing it on. How do you know he made a difference?


If you're looking for graphs and pie charts I can't help you, but I live here, talked to people and saw the  changes first hand.


----------



## smokedout (Jan 30, 2008)

the demos against the deaths in custody


----------



## bluestreak (Jan 30, 2008)

Badger Kitten said:


> Afaik he was just marching. Not marching '*with *the BNP candidate. I mean, if I go shopping in Superdrug and in the queue in front of me is some arse from the BNP, am I ''shopping with the BNP supporte''r?


 

Don't be riduculous.

There's a world of difference.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> If you're looking for graphs and pie charts I can't help you, but I live here, talked to people and saw the  changes first hand.



I'm not after statistical data just would like an honest answer from you; what changes did you see, what did these people say? How does that add up to his record on fighting racism (which was the original point here)?


----------



## gabi (Jan 30, 2008)

smokedout said:


> the demos against the deaths in custody



They weren't anti-paddick protests per se. anti met more like.

ive chatted to some local cops about brian paddick in the past. they hate him. which is more than enough to make me want to vote for the man.


----------



## clandestino (Jan 30, 2008)

Reading the 2002 part of this thread is very strange, especially seeing the fairly reasonable contributions from posters passim. It's like stumbling upon posts from Anakin Skywalker.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

ianw said:


> Reading the 2002 part of this thread is very strange, especially seeing the fairly reasonable contributions from posters passim. It's like stumbling upon posts from Anakin Skywalker.



Heh...man I'd forgotten about Hatboy...he was real fixture of this forum, had a good few pm chats with him too...


----------



## Dan U (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think you, bob and BK are missing the point by a country mile...



which point is that?

you said earlier he should have released a statement. well i seem to remember reading him being quoted in the papers that evening/next morning about the situation.

is that what you mean?


----------



## clandestino (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh...man I'd forgotten about Hatboy...he was real fixture of this forum, had a good few pm chats with him too...




I liked Hatboy too.


----------



## smokedout (Jan 30, 2008)

gabi said:


> They weren't anti-paddick protests per se. anti met more like.
> 
> ive chatted to some local cops about brian paddick in the past. they hate him. which is more than enough to make me want to vote for the man.



They were demos held in brixton over the deaths of three brixton residents organised by a brixton based group which on one occasion marched on brixton police station


----------



## smokedout (Jan 30, 2008)

editor said:


> I don't recall any anti-Paddick demos. Could you give me some details please?



try reading this thread, it might jog your memory



> The march moved off peacefully at 6.30 and proceeded past the scenes of the 4 killings. After speeches from the families of the murder victims, a decision was then taken by the crowd to continue to Brixton police station where the demonstration against police racism and brutality would end.
> 
> About a mile away from the police station, the still peaceful crowd were confronted in a side street by 4 riot vans full of police. The police jumped out, already tooled up in full riot gear, with batons drawn, and formed a line in front of the march. They then charged the crowd, which included children and relatives of the murder victims; who were forced to run in the opposite direction only to be pushed back by another line of police from the other side. Some initially managed to escape the second line of police and run down more side-streets, only to find themselves continually charged at by more riot police and forced to run into estates.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2008)

smokedout said:


> try reading this thread, it might jog your memory


That wasn't an "anti-Paddick demo" as you claimed. Like to try again?


----------



## smokedout (Jan 30, 2008)

who was in charge of lambeth police at the time then?

and were the people on that demo the members of the black community you say supported paddick?


----------



## Bob (Jan 30, 2008)

Worth also recalling that Brian says that one of his proudest moments was going down to his local newsagents and discovering that The Voice's front page headline was 'Bring Back Paddick'.


----------



## gabi (Jan 30, 2008)

smokedout said:


> They were demos held in brixton over the deaths of three brixton residents organised by a brixton based group which on one occasion marched on brixton police station



My point stands.


----------



## Stobart Stopper (Jan 30, 2008)

Did anyone see Brian on News24 a few minutes ago? He was talking about stop and search.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2008)

Stobart Stopper said:


> Did anyone see Brian on News24 a few minutes ago? He was talking about stop and search.



What did he say? Cameron looks like he's going to come unstuck like Michael Howard did a few years back over this from what I hear...


----------



## detective-boy (Jan 30, 2008)

Dan U said:


> i'd be getting upset at the head of the police unions failure to condemn him, not someone like Paddick.


TBH I'm fucking disgusted at them.  They could / should have loudly told him to fuck off and made it perfectly plain he was not welcome.  A bit of localised chanting of abuse at him would have done the trick.

His presence was repulsive.  I was fucking gobsmacked it happened.


----------



## detective-boy (Jan 30, 2008)

smokedout said:


> coming onto a (sorry) largely white, middle class message board to discuss policing in brixton rather than engaging with the local working class


1.  If you think this was his only source of contact with local people, you're mad.
2.  I doubt very much he knew what this place was, demographic wise, when he came here.
3.  He came here because of concerns expressed about someone posting shite (racist, as I recall) and claiming to be a cop.
4.  And where would he find the "local working class" to converse with anyway, the local "Working Class Club" ...


----------



## detective-boy (Jan 30, 2008)

smokedout said:


> i went to several of the police consultative group meetings including the one where he did his jesus routine, was the whitest event ive ever seen in brixton


So what are you saying?

That there was some sort of colour bar in operation?
That no-one invited the black people?
That the police operated some sort of invite-only system?
That there was a door policy.

You're fucking mad.  It's an open meeting.  It's widely publicised.  It's open to all.  If there were no black people there it's because they're just the fucking same as the rest of us ... they can't be fucking arsed.


----------



## detective-boy (Jan 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What did he say?


Hopefully that removing the need for reasonable grounds to suspect and to keep a proper record would be totally and utterly retrograde steps.  There is absolutely nothing (apart from competence and will) preventing the current system working entirely properly.  Cops who hide behind the "Oh, we can't stop and search anyone any more" and "It takes us three weeks to write up a search record" are, in my experience, idle, incompetent fuckwits.  I was a Duty Inspector.  If I didn't manage a handful of stops every time I was out on the street I'd had a quiet fucking day.

The form could be shorter, sure.  And the bollocks which is the requirement to make a similar record of any stop and question (even without a search) is excessively intrusive and a step too far.  But to remove the need for grounds to suspect and make a record for searches would (in about 10-15 years time) get us right back to Op Swamp again ... and so the wheel turns ...


----------



## cesare (Jan 30, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> So what are you saying?
> 
> That there was some sort of colour bar in operation?
> That no-one invited the black people?
> ...



I doubt that _direct_ and obvious discrimination in the format you suggested in your questions would have taken place. The police have got their head around that one for the most part, I understand.

Do you see where I'm going with this?


----------



## smokedout (Jan 30, 2008)

i dont think he's heard of indirect discrimination yet


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 31, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> So what are you saying?


He's not saying anything at all - not making a single direct point that can be addressed. It's smearing is all.


----------



## Brian (Jan 31, 2008)

*Deja vu*

Some things don't change around here do they?

The whole reason for me coming here in the first place when I was the police commander was because some people were posting complete lies and distortions about what was going on in Lambeth, like the police attacking a peaceful protest with batons, including women and children - all complete and utter rubbish.

As for Barnbrook, the last thing I wanted to do was give him any publicity.  The statements I made to the media were in answer to questions, not pro-activity on my part.  The last thing we want to do is acknowledge that these people even exist, let alone give them page after page of coverage, even if it is me attacking them.

What I did in Lambeth was to listen to what local people told me.  The black community told me crack and heroin were ruining their young people's lives and that they wanted me to concentrate on those drugs, not criminalise their young people for small amounts of cannabis.

The three deaths in custody were tragic and I have already been through chapter and verse, here and elsewhere about what happen.  There are some deaths in custody that are deeply disturbing and we are all justified in being concerned about those but there are others that are terrible tragedies but are not the fault of the police.  Ricky Bishop is mentioned.  He was seen on CCTV at the police station and later at the hospital with not a mark on him and he died from a heart attack from a massive overdose of cocaine, which he had swallowed.  To be honest, I don't have the time to go through every detail again at the moment but if people want that argument sometime in the future, let's do it.

I tried my best to make a positive difference when I was the police chief in Lambeth and I want to make a positive difference in London as Mayor.

As you can tell from the hour, I am very busy and I have another one tomorrow so...see you soon!


----------



## purves grundy (Jan 31, 2008)

You've got a black belt in keepin it real as far as i can tell. Respect.



</Ali G>


----------



## detective-boy (Jan 31, 2008)

smokedout said:


> i dont think he's heard of indirect discrimination yet


Of course I have you prick.

Now how about actually providing an explanation of how the police have done anything in relation to the consultative meetings which amounts to indirect discrimination.

Instead of just gobbing off, how about sharing your wonderful knowledge.

Or are you Ken Livingstone / Lee Jasper?


----------



## detective-boy (Jan 31, 2008)

Brian said:


> The black community told me crack and heroin were ruining their young people's lives and that they wanted me to concentrate on those drugs, not criminalise their young people for small amounts of cannabis.


Ah yes ... but we know now that it wasn't the _working class_ black community.  Classist!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 31, 2008)

Brian said:


> As for Barnbrook, the last thing I wanted to do was give him any publicity.  The statements I made to the media were in answer to questions, not pro-activity on my part.  The last thing we want to do is acknowledge that these people even exist, let alone give them page after page of coverage, even if it is me attacking them.



I see your viewpoint although I'm not quite convinced of it. Does this mean if you were elected Mayor you'd end things like the anti-racist RISE festival for fear of giving publicity to the far right?* 

The reason I ask is your record on fighting racism is unclear to me, and by extension your policies in terms of tackling racism in the capital.



*genuine question


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 31, 2008)

smokedout said:


> try reading this thread, it might jog your memory



That report was written by someone who believes it's OK to rape a woman if you haven't had sex in a while.  I'd take it with a pinch of salt if I were you.


----------



## smokedout (Jan 31, 2008)

maybe but i know someone personally who was at that demo and they told the same story

db, the point in question was whether brian was popular with the local black community, not whether the meetings were discriminatory in some way

and those meetings did not in any way reflect the demographic of brixton


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2008)

smokedout said:


> maybe but i know someone personally who was at that demo and they told the same story


Could you show me some  independent reports that confirm that please?


----------



## detective-boy (Jan 31, 2008)

smokedout said:


> and those meetings did not in any way reflect the demographic of brixton


Whether they did or did not is entirely fucking irrelevant.

YOU alleged that it was because the police had in some way made that happen.  I asked you to provide some explanation of HOW that was meant to have been done.  

So how about doing so?  (Or, alternatively, acknowledging the truth (i.e. that you can't, because they didn't - EVERY public fucking meeting, about every fucking subject is unrepresentative - they are ALL full of boring old gits with no fucking life or with a particular issue to jump up and down about for a while (having never been seen before, and never being seen again afterwards).  They are ALL entirely unrepresentative of youth.  It is fuck all to do with the police and racism, direct or indirect.)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 31, 2008)

editor said:


> Could you show me some  independent reports that confirm that please?



Why should he? You haven't when asked about your claim about his [Brian Paddick] record on fighting racism.


----------



## smokedout (Jan 31, 2008)

editor said:


> Could you show me some  independent reports that confirm that please?



well theres two reports on that thread making the allegations, plus a friend of mine said the same thing - who incidentally is someone im pretty sure you know, if you pm me ill give you his name


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why should he? You haven't when asked about your claim about his [Brian Paddick] record on fighting racism.


Because he's quoting  a very, very dubious source. If the event happened as he claimed there'd be ample reportage online.

There's loads of evidence supporting the backing that Paddick got from some of  the black community (you could start by remembering the front page of The Voice that was dedicated to demanding he be reinstated).


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2008)

smokedout said:


> well theres two reports on that thread making the allegations, plus a friend of mine said the same thing - who incidentally is someone im pretty sure you know, if you pm me ill give you his name


I was rather hoping for an independent news report rather than the words of Steelgate and your mate. Oh well.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 31, 2008)

Brian said:


> The last thing we want to do is acknowledge that these people even exist, let alone give them page after page of coverage, even if it is me attacking them.



i disagree with that bit, personally.

you should be acknowledging them, debating with them and defeating them on the basis of reason and fact.

ignoring them they won't go away!

i agree about after the march not being the time though, that isn't what the day was about.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 31, 2008)

editor said:


> I was rather hoping for an independent news report rather than the words of Steelgate and your mate. Oh well.



i am sorry but  @ anyone quoting Steelgate as reliable source.

blimey.


----------



## smokedout (Jan 31, 2008)

editor said:


> I was rather hoping for an independent news report rather than the words of Steelgate and your mate. Oh well.



i dont know who steelgate is but theres at least one other person on that thread who said the same thing

if it wasnt reported on the news does that mean it never happened?


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2008)

smokedout said:


> i dont know who steelgate is but theres at least one other person on that thread who said the same thing


Maybe it's time for you to research the sources you're linking to then.


----------



## Jessiedog (Jan 31, 2008)

G'luck, brian!



Woof


----------



## Winot (Jan 31, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> Hopefully that removing the need for reasonable grounds to suspect and to keep a proper record would be totally and utterly retrograde steps.  There is absolutely nothing (apart from competence and will) preventing the current system working entirely properly.  Cops who hide behind the "Oh, we can't stop and search anyone any more" and "It takes us three weeks to write up a search record" are, in my experience, idle, incompetent fuckwits.  I was a Duty Inspector.  If I didn't manage a handful of stops every time I was out on the street I'd had a quiet fucking day.
> 
> The form could be shorter, sure.  And the bollocks which is the requirement to make a similar record of any stop and question (even without a search) is excessively intrusive and a step too far.  But to remove the need for grounds to suspect and make a record for searches would (in about 10-15 years time) get us right back to Op Swamp again ... and so the wheel turns ...



BBC web site article on stop & search


----------



## Bob (Jan 31, 2008)

On a related note if any of you feel like voting for (or indeed against) Brian in today's Evening Lite poll the link is here:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/poll/poll-24036-details/ques-23467-id/Lite+poll%3A+Brian+Paddick/poll.do?answer=39379


----------



## agricola (Jan 31, 2008)

Good old Evening Standard:




			
				Evening Standard said:
			
		

> Sir Elton and friends come out for Paddick


----------



## Stobart Stopper (Jan 31, 2008)

The Evening Standard has been very supportive of Brian's campaign from what I have read so far. One of their columnists did an excellent article a few weeks ago about him.


----------



## brix (Jan 31, 2008)

Stobart Stopper said:


> The Evening Standard has been very supportive of Brian's campaign from what I have read so far. One of their columnists did an excellent article a few weeks ago about him.



Yeah, but isn't that only because they'll do anything/support anyone in order to have a pop at Ken?


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2008)

Brian - I would have slung 50p into your campaign funds if I could have come along to your all star celeb-tastic party!


----------



## Stobart Stopper (Jan 31, 2008)

I will donate £20 if he gets me a George Michael signed photo. (It's my birthday soon.)
 Please!


----------



## Bob (Feb 1, 2008)

editor said:


> Brian - I would have slung 50p into your campaign funds if I could have come along to your all star celeb-tastic party!



You can always donate here;
https://www.libdems.org.uk/support/landing2.html?ref=lon7t

<shameless plug ends>


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2008)

Bob said:


> You can always donate here;
> https://www.libdems.org.uk/support/landing2.html?ref=lon7t
> 
> <shameless plug ends>


Do I get to go a star studded celeb party?


----------



## TopCat (Feb 1, 2008)

editor said:


> Brian - I would have slung 50p into your campaign funds if I could have come along to your all star celeb-tastic party!



if all those who attended put in 50p he would have raised more than he did!


----------



## TopCat (Feb 1, 2008)

His delivery is well wooden too. He still looks like he is uncomfortable out of uniform. Plus he was a copper. Won't get my vote no no. Shagging geezers does not a radical make.


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 1, 2008)

smokedout said:


> would that be black community who repeatedly demonstrated against him?
> 
> i went to several of the police consultative group meetings including the one where he did his jesus routine, was the whitest event ive ever seen in brixton
> 
> in fact the only black people their were the family of ricky bishop who turned up to have a go at him


no they didn't, no it wasn't, no they weren't the only ones (though I sdo feel desperately sorry for Mrs B, to this say), d I was there with editor so I should bloody know!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2008)

Brian comes out against the tube unions:



> Liberal Democrat mayoral candidate Brian Paddick today hit out at tube union plans for an all-out tube strike this Thursday unless all their demands are met.


----------



## bluestreak (Feb 5, 2008)

Brian, you're a fucking hypocrite.  With that you've lost me for ever.


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## the button (Feb 5, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Brian comes out against the tube unions:







			
				Brian said:
			
		

> “The fact that* unions are holding Londoners to ransom *at the drop of a hat shows a total lack of leadership at TfL."



'Sake. 

Hardly surprising, like.


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## cesare (Feb 5, 2008)

oh dear oh dear


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## butchersapron (Feb 5, 2008)

He's only exposing those who had any illusions in him.


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## butchersapron (Feb 5, 2008)

_I have 30 years experience of dealing with leadership and management issues. It’s about time someone took responsibility and got a grip of the unions._


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## the button (Feb 5, 2008)

Looks like St Brian's halo's slipped, eh?


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## butchersapron (Feb 5, 2008)

You scumbag. You user. Oh no, it was my team.


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## the button (Feb 5, 2008)

Scratch a liberal ex-copper, and find.... er.... a liberal ex-copper.


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## bluestreak (Feb 5, 2008)

the button said:


> Scratch a liberal ex-copper, and find.... er.... a liberal ex-copper.


 
Heh...

The dead will be left unburied, you mark my words.


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 5, 2008)

And so a new political category is born, a Neo-liberal Lib Dem.  Oh dear it looks as if the protest votes will now go to Boris.


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## cesare (Feb 5, 2008)

Hocus Eye. said:


> And so a new political category is born, a Neo-liberal Lib Dem.  Oh dear it looks as *if the protest votes will now go to Boris*.


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## cesare (Feb 5, 2008)

Brian - have you seen this thread yet?

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7070265&posted=1#post7070265


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## newbie (Feb 7, 2008)

Red Jezza said:


> no they didn't, no it wasn't, no they weren't the only ones (though I sdo feel desperately sorry for Mrs B, to this say), d I was there with editor so I should bloody know!



so was I.  Afterwards I posted the following:



> Call me old fashioned, but I think it's rather rude to bellow 'shutup' at a woman whose son has been killed. Her protest that the applause for Paddick was 'offensive' was shouted down.






> Never having been in a pro-police rally before perhaps I shouldn't be shocked that protesters are shouted down. I have been in Brixton crowds before though, and would never have thought one would tell her that their Messiah was more important than her son.
> 
> She could have made her protest more effectively, of course, though I think she was taken by surprise by the ovation when BP arrived. Should she have kept quiet? How should a dissident black woman behave when a (predominantly) white liberal crowd goes into hero mode? Presumably with all due deference whilst taking care not to disrupt.



ancient thread


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## editor (Feb 7, 2008)

newbie said:


> ancient thread


What's the point of that piece of ancient and highly selective quoting? I trust others will read the subsequent comments on that thread from the people who were also there and get the full picture.


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## newbie (Feb 7, 2008)

It's what came into my mind as I read the recent contributions to this thread.


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## editor (Feb 7, 2008)

newbie said:


> It's what came into my mind as I read the recent contributions to this thread.


To what end? Just to toss in a casual and unfocussed attempt at slurring Paddick by association?

As a card carrying union member, I'm certainly not impressed by his one comment thus far, but I fail to see the connection with his attitude towards unions and your selectively quoted post about the conduct of people who went to see him _years ago._


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## newbie (Feb 7, 2008)

Why do you want me to explain to you my motivation for making a post?  

In any event, you might like to take a note of the post I quoted, which mentioned that meeting, and perhaps look at the subthread that led up to it.  There are more conversations going on here than the one about unions.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 7, 2008)

newbie said:


> It's what came into my mind as I read the recent contributions to this thread.



You know I'm not sure what value doing that has, other than to give credence to the Editors view about the current policy questions which have been put to Brian on the other thread...


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## editor (Feb 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You know I'm not sure what value doing that has, other than to give credence to the Editors view about the current policy questions which have been put to Brian on the other thread...


Exactly. How would you fancy trying to have a sensible discussion with someone about your current position if all they can do is try to damn you by dragging up random, selectively quoted - and frankly totally unrelated - posts from six years ago ?


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Exactly. How would you fancy trying to have a sensible discussion with someone about your current position if all they can do is try to damn you by dragging up random, selectively quoted - and frankly totally unrelated - posts from six years ago ?



As you say Brian can pick and choose what he wants to engage with. So I can't see it being an issue tbh.

I pointed it out as much a remark on your prejudice toward those asking the questions as newbies wisdom in posting it.


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## editor (Feb 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> As you say Brian can pick and choose what he wants to engage with. So I can't see it being an issue tbh.
> 
> I pointed it out as much a remark on your prejudice toward those asking the questions as newbies wisdom in posting it.


What "prejudice" please? Have you read the rest of the thread he linked to? Perhaps you should before accusing others of prejudice.

Oh, and to repeat: posters are under no obligation to answer questions about their personal life here, and it starts to look like harassment if people follow them around the boards, demanding answers.

Same rule applies to everyone.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm not going to get into this again because it's futile but one last comment; Brian's personal life is not in question it's his very public life we're discussing.


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## newbie (Feb 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Exactly. How would you fancy trying to have a sensible discussion with someone about your current position if all they can do is try to damn you by dragging up random, selectively quoted - and frankly totally unrelated - posts from six years ago ?



who do you think I am trying to 'damn'?


KE- wisdom, not me mate, you're thinking of someone else


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 7, 2008)

newbie said:


> KE- wisdom, not me mate, you're thinking of someone else


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## Jonti (Feb 7, 2008)

*Oh! Is this any better?*



Caspar Hauser said:


> I have to say the Anti-Americanism on this boards is very unsettling.


Quite.  Let's redress the balance, eh ...

Q) What's the difference between the Yanks and the Ozzies?
A) The Yanks had the sense to leave before they were forcibly deported.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 20, 2008)

An alternative view on Brian here. I wonder what the other side of this story is?



> Two young men were subject to the stop-and-search procedure as they rushed to hospital to attend a birth. With his girlfriend in the process of giving birth, the father-to-be was naturally hesitant about being kept for too long. The incident escalated and one of the young men was CS-gassed and then handcuffed and later charged with assaulting a police officer.
> 
> Fearing a possible miscarriage of justice, I decided to intervene to give evidence in the ensuing case. The young man was subsequently acquitted. I thought I’d bring the incident to the attention of Mr Paddick to get his opinion. He was immediately very defensive and awkward, eventually storming off.


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## articletwo (Feb 22, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> An alternative view on Brian here. I wonder what the other side of this story is?



This is a very serious matter: Paddick has been criticised by a Black person. Therefore, there is no alternative but for him to be taken from this court to a place of racism re-education and held there until he admits the error of his ways.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Feb 23, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> An alternative view on Brian here. I wonder what the other side of this story is?


well i certainly don't think anyone will understand an 'other side' from such a one-eyed account tbh. alternative or just agitating?


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> well i certainly don't think anyone will understand an 'other side' from such a one-eyed account tbh. alternative or just agitating?



That's my point, I know this women is fairly well connected but I'd like to know if this is such a limited/minority view of Paddick why she'd go public like this knowing there's little support for her view?


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## Paulie Tandoori (Feb 23, 2008)

course you do


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> course you do


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## Paulie Tandoori (Feb 23, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


>


tired drunk & gwan to me bed. no worries, will compute and come back to you. sleep tight


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## lang rabbie (Feb 23, 2008)

I'm unable to comment on the specifics of Cheryl Sealey's claims on the "stop and search" case.  

But I'm now confused.  Is the Cheryl known in South London as a leading light of "Mothers against Guns" the same Cheryl Sealey who was selected by members of the Respect Coalition last April for their  list of candidates for the Greater London Assembly .  If so, isn't there an interest to declare?  

Also, her whole indignant piece for Blink seems to start from the preconception that Paddick called Lee Jasper a "street hustler".   I can't find any evidence that he has - the phrase only appears in an  Andrew Gilligan profile of Lee Jasper. in the Evening Standard.   This quoted Paddick on what Jasper used to do in his days in Notting Hill, but the phrase is not in Paddick's own quotation:



> The Lib-Dem mayoral candidate and former police commander, Brian Paddick, first came across Mr Jasper as a street hustler in Notting Hill. "Every year at carnival, his association would sell bits of the pavement they didn't own (to commercial stallholders)," said Mr Paddick. "Every year it would end up in a row between Lee and the local police chief, who would eventually give in and allow (traders) who had Lee Jasper licences, rather than local authority licences, through the police lines."


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## AverageJoe (Feb 23, 2008)

Although it may be worth noting that Gilligan is employed full time by the Standard to *only* dig up info on Ken. Hence the amount of time spent researching all the Lee Jasper/Brixton Base/misappropriation of funds etc/

I dont really have a sway towards any of the candidates tbh, but Ken is the only one who seems to have an intense 24 hour media watch on him.

Meh. Its all the power of the press innit.


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## Jonti (Feb 23, 2008)

So devious dodgy Jasper's fellow-travellers are gunning for Paddick via the scurrilous Evening Standard, are they?

That gets Paddick my vote!


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## AverageJoe (Feb 23, 2008)

No. Not really. Just that The Standard has taken it upon themselves to employ someone full time to investigate Ken. They arent doing it to the other candidates.

But like I say, the power of the media can paint *anyone* in any light that the media decide they want


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