# Enhanced CRB with a conviction for possession?



## trashpony (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm applying for a job in a school and obviously I will have to have an enhanced CRB check. I have a conviction for possession of cannabis which is long spent and for which I was fined £50. 

I presume I have to disclose it on my application form but will it count against me? I have avoided doing anything (like volunteering in schools) that required me to have an enhanced CRB for years because I didn't want my employers to find out about it


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 5, 2011)

I suppose it depends on whoever sees it rather than there being a fixed rule but for what it's worth one of my former colleagues had a couple of similar convictions I believe and has since gone on to be an upstanding Police Officer.


----------



## Onket (Jul 5, 2011)

I thought the point of it being spent was that you don't have to declare it.


----------



## trashpony (Jul 5, 2011)

Onket said:


> I thought the point of it being spent was that you don't have to declare it.


 
You do in an enhanced CRB. 

It was a bloody long time ago M'sO so I'm hoping that even if they disapprove, they will think of it as mere youthful stupidity. Good to know that you can even join the police with a conviction!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 5, 2011)

Onket said:


> I thought the point of it being spent was that you don't have to declare it.



It'll still show up on an enhanced check. I think.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 5, 2011)

Do all convictions, fines etc stay on your record? And for how long? Just curious really, I've no record here in the UK.


----------



## trashpony (Jul 5, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Do all convictions, fines etc stay on your record? And for how long? Just curious really, I've no record here in the UK.


 
Yep. they're there forever although they are 'spent' in that you don't have to declare them usually. If you need an enhanced CRB, you would have to declare any record in another country too


----------



## TruXta (Jul 5, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Yep. they're there forever although they are 'spent' in that you don't have to declare them usually. If you need an enhanced CRB, you would have to declare any record in another country too


 
Huh. It's different from the old country then. There, all convictions are supposed to be erased after x years, x depending on the type and severity of the crime. So, say I had a couple of fines from years back in another country, and those are now erased from the police records in that country, would I still need to declare them on an ECRB?


----------



## stuff_it (Jul 5, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Huh. It's different from the old country then. There, all convictions are supposed to be erased after x years, x depending on the type and severity of the crime. So, say I had a couple of fines from years back in another country, and those are now erased from the police records in that country, would I still need to declare them on an ECRB?


 
Enhanced CRBs are different to a normal CRB check. Nothing is ever 'spent' with regards to an enhanced CRB.

Normally they aren't looking for stuff like long spent possessions of class B and the like though...enhanced is normally for kiddies , the vulnerable and the elderly...things like violence, assault, or fraud would look far far worse.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 5, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Enhanced CRBs are different to a normal CRB check. Nothing is ever 'spent' with regards to an enhanced CRB.


 
Sure, but if they're off the record in the other country, how is anyone gonna find out over here?


----------



## stuff_it (Jul 5, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Sure, but if they're off the record in the other country, how is anyone gonna find out over here?


 
They probably won't tbf. My mum is American, and she had to get a letter from the police department of her home town sent from the states last time she got a school job, even having not lived there for over 20 years.


----------



## geminisnake (Jul 5, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Sure, but if they're off the record in the other country, how is anyone gonna find out over here?


 
That might possibly depend on which other country the offence took place in. If it was within the EU I'd guess it's easier to find out.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 5, 2011)

geminisnake said:


> That might possibly depend on which other country the offence took place in. If it was within the EU I'd guess it's easier to find out.


 
It wasn't, but that wasn't really the point either. In the country I'm talking about offenses below a certain threshold are expunged (completely) from police records. So if I were to undergo an ECRB here, even if UK plod were to ask their counterparts, how would they know? Anyway, was just a hypothetical situ.


----------



## stuff_it (Jul 5, 2011)

TruXta said:


> It wasn't, but that wasn't really the point either. In the country I'm talking about offenses below a certain threshold are expunged (completely) from police records. So if I were to undergo an ECRB here, even if UK plod were to ask their counterparts, how would they know? Anyway, was just a hypothetical situ.


 
Now what did you do? *wags finger*


----------



## TruXta (Jul 5, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Now what did you do? *wags finger*


 
Nothing! Weeeeeeeeell, a small sin or two. Very small sins.


----------



## Thora (Jul 5, 2011)

trashpony said:


> I'm applying for a job in a school and obviously I will have to have an enhanced CRB check. I have a conviction for possession of cannabis which is long spent and for which I was fined £50.
> 
> I presume I have to disclose it on my application form but will it count against me? I have avoided doing anything (like volunteering in schools) that required me to have an enhanced CRB for years because I didn't want my employers to find out about it


Yeah, the enhanced version will contain anything the police or social services have on you, even unproven allegations if they deem them relevant.

I'd disclose it on the application and if there's space or a personal statement or something mention it and say how long ago it was and how you learnt from the experience.


----------



## Thora (Jul 5, 2011)

I also had to get a police check from Germany when registering with Ofsted because I lived there for a couple of years.


----------



## stuff_it (Jul 5, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Nothing! Weeeeeeeeell, a small sin or two. Very small sins.


 
What, proper sins, not just law breaking!?


----------



## trashpony (Jul 5, 2011)

Thora said:


> Yeah, the enhanced version will contain anything the police or social services have on you, even unproven allegations if they deem them relevant.
> 
> I'd disclose it on the application and if there's space or a personal statement or something mention it and say how long ago it was and how you learnt from the experience.



Ta for that. 

I have to put a separate letter in a sealed envelope, saying what I've done. I shall say that it was a youthful indiscretion and that I most definitely have learned and have led a life of wholesome virtue ever since  *ahem*


----------



## stuff_it (Jul 6, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Ta for that.
> 
> I have to put a separate letter in a sealed envelope, saying what I've done. I shall say that it was a youthful indiscretion and that I most definitely have learned and have led a life of wholesome virtue ever since  *ahem*


 
Should be fine, it's really only to make sure you won't fraud or rape people.


----------



## Athos (Jul 6, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Should be fine, it's really only to make sure you won't fraud or rape people.


 
Who knows what a dope fiend is capable of?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Should be fine, it's really only to make sure you won't fraud or rape people.


ABH would also scupper you. Anything violent.


----------



## stuff_it (Jul 6, 2011)

They probably wouldn't be that impressed with recent hard drugs either unless you could show that you were treated/drug free for a while after.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 6, 2011)

I work with kids, although not in a school. Got one for weed about 5 years ago and most people hardly blink, got one last year for Valium that is proving more problematic. Not had a no yet, but had to have some very deep and meaningfuls about how it was a bad time in my life and I'm truly repentant for. 

I think a lot of it has to with how long ago it was. Many of us did daft things when we were younger (and some of still do )


----------



## trashpony (Jul 6, 2011)

I didn't realise until I had to write it down that I was only 19 at the time. A mere baby! 

Thanks for the reassurances. My record is entirely clean as a whistle since that one unfortunate incident. I do feel a bit like Bill Clinton though


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2011)

I bet you inhaled though.


----------



## madzone (Jul 6, 2011)

I have a record for ABH and I disclose it on enhanced CRBs. I first disclosed it was when I was working in social care and my line-manager-to-be just asked me about the details behind it, was satisfied it was a one-off and gave me the job anyway. It's never really gone against me in any setting because it was so long ago and it's clear from my record that I haven't done anything like it again.. I've worked in schools and all sorts.


----------



## trashpony (Jul 6, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I bet you inhaled though.


 
I never! 

Thanks everyone, I should have asked about this years ago. It's been preying on my mind for ages


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2011)

madzone said:


> I have a record for ABH and I disclose it on enhanced CRBs. I first disclosed it was when I was working in social care and my line-manager-to-be just asked me about the details behind it, was satisfied it was a one-off and gave me the job anyway. It's never really gone against me in any setting because it was so long ago and it's clear from my record that I haven't done anything like it again.. I've worked in schools and all sorts.


That's good to hear. I do know someone who was scuppered by an ABH. I don't know what the circumstances were though.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 6, 2011)

The problem with CRBs is so up to the person and the organisation, although how much they like you can make a big difference.


----------



## Onket (Jul 6, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It'll still show up on an enhanced check. I think.


 
Yeah, I appreciate that, but there's a difference in it showing up and you having to disclose it, I thought.

<I've not read the rest of the thread>


----------



## trashpony (Jul 6, 2011)

Onket said:


> Yeah, I appreciate that, but there's a difference in it showing up and you having to disclose it, I thought.
> 
> <I've not read the rest of the thread>


 
Well if they carry out an enhanced check and then it shows up, then you've lied haven't you? I wouldn't give a job to anyone who lied about something they knew damn well would show up


----------



## madzone (Jul 6, 2011)

Onket said:


> Yeah, I appreciate that, but there's a difference in it showing up and you having to disclose it, I thought.
> 
> <I've not read the rest of the thread>


 
If you don't disclose something and it shows up you can kiss the job offer goodbye.


----------



## Onket (Jul 6, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Well if they carry out an enhanced check and then it shows up, then you've lied haven't you? I wouldn't give a job to anyone who lied about something they knew damn well would show up


 
You only have to disclose something until it's spent, so no, you're not lying about anything. Spent convictions do show up on an enhanced check, yes. But they are spent.

Otherwise there'd be no point anything becoming spent, would there.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 6, 2011)

Onket said:


> You only have to disclose something until it's spent, so no, you're not lying about anything. Spent convictions do show up on an enhanced check, yes. But they are spent.
> 
> Otherwise there'd be no point anything becoming spent, would there.


 
Except it doesn't ask about spent convictions on a ECRB, it asks for any.

Not all roles require an ECRB, just a normal one.


----------



## Onket (Jul 6, 2011)

There's your answer, then.


----------



## trashpony (Jul 6, 2011)

Onket said:


> There's your answer, then.


 
 If you want to work with children or vulnerable people, you have to declare all convictions, spent or otherwise. If you don't, an ordinary CRB will not show up spent convictions


----------



## Onket (Jul 6, 2011)

Yes, I was referring to GS's post. You'll have to declare it.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2011)

Onket said:


> You only have to disclose something until it's spent, so no, you're not lying about anything. Spent convictions do show up on an enhanced check, yes. But they are spent.
> 
> Otherwise there'd be no point anything becoming spent, would there.


 
Jobs that require CRB checks are exempt from Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. This means no.such thing as spent with these jobs.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2011)

trashpony said:


> If you want to work with children or vulnerable people, you have to declare all convictions, spent or otherwise. If you don't, an ordinary CRB will not show up spent convictions


 
My understanding is an ordinary CRB will show up spent convictions. ECRB also shows up cautions plus other info from police. Unless its been changed in past few years.


----------



## pengaleng (Jul 6, 2011)

if yer gonna be working in a school, lock all yer internet shit down and get a seperate email they can use to contact you, my mate just got royally fucked cus they put her email onto some site and it showed up everything she's ever registered to.


----------



## trashpony (Jul 6, 2011)

tribal_princess said:


> if yer gonna be working in a school, lock all yer internet shit down and get a seperate email they can use to contact you, my mate just got royally fucked cus they put her email onto some site and it showed up everything she's ever registered to.


 
I have a separate account I use for anything dodgy already. I have done a search for my email addy on pipl.com and it only came up with my myspace page  (which I'd forgotten I had) and I've deleted that. Too late to put down a different email - dropped the application in this morning


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 6, 2011)

tribal_princess said:


> if yer gonna be working in a school, lock all yer internet shit down and get a seperate email they can use to contact you, my mate just got royally fucked cus they put her email onto some site and it showed up everything she's ever registered to.


 
Out of interest do you know what this site is?


----------



## innit (Jul 6, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> ABH would also scupper you. Anything violent.


 
Not necessarily, depends how much time has passed and what you've done in between, plus what you say about it.


----------



## trashpony (Jul 6, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Out of interest do you know what this site is?


 
The only one I know of is pipl.com but I'm sure there are others


----------



## Onket (Jul 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Jobs that require CRB checks are exempt from Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. This means no.such thing as spent with these jobs.


 
I see. Didn't know this. Never considered a job which require a check, so I guess I wouldn't.

I declared the last time I applied for a job, and got the job. They're now spent.


----------



## zippyRN (Jul 13, 2011)

trashpony said:


> I'm applying for a job in a school and obviously I will have to have an enhanced CRB check. I have a conviction for possession of cannabis which is long spent and for which I was fined £50.
> 
> I presume I have to disclose it on my application form but will it count against me? I have avoided doing anything (like volunteering in schools) that required me to have an enhanced CRB for years because I didn't want my employers to find out about it


 

Yes it is likely to be on a disclosure. if it's a long time ago and would be otherwise spent and there aren't other issues that arise on your CRB it shouldn't pose a problem as long as you disclose it at the relevant point in the application process, chancing it by omitting  it i nthe hope it's not on runs greater risks  should it show on the disclosure, given Health professionals have been struck off and prosecuted for fraud on the basis of boosting grades in exams taken long ago to meet criteria for promotion etc ...

and contrary to popular belief  CRB  disclosures are neither 'checks'  or something which can be 'failed'  , a CRB disclosure solely provides information to inform the potential employer of  convictions or your name being on certain safeguarding related lists ... potentially there may b e local intelligence disclosed but that does depend on how (or if) it is on relevant databases


----------



## zippyRN (Jul 13, 2011)

Onket said:


> I thought the point of it being spent was that you don't have to declare it.


 
if the role requires an enhanced CRB it will be exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act provisions.


----------



## Onket (Jul 13, 2011)

See post #46.


----------



## moonsi til (Jul 13, 2011)

I had never heard of www.pipl.com till you posted it trashy. I put in my email address & my amazon wish list came up! I work in a field which require enhanced CRBs & even though I had nothing to fear I was still nervous when I was waiting for my last one.


----------



## Mr Smin (Jul 13, 2011)

An ECRB can also include the police's comments about you - not just actual convictions. However, either their record keeping is crap or they just don't think what they have on me is worth passing on since my ECRB (they send you a copy) is always clean.


----------



## Hollis (Jul 13, 2011)

zippyRN said:


> and contrary to popular belief  CRB  disclosures are neither 'checks'  or something which can be 'failed'  , a CRB disclosure solely provides information to inform the potential employer of  convictions or your name being on certain safeguarding related lists ... potentially there may b e local intelligence disclosed but that does depend on how (or if) it is on relevant databases



Part of the problem being that most employers don't have any set 'policy' on CRB checks which leaves it all down to whim & perceived "risk management".  Many employers also incorrectly ask for a CRB check when the nature of the role doesn't require one.  Also it gets disclosed before anyone has a chance to explain circumstances - so the mere act of disclosing is potentially going to reduce your chance of being shortlisted.  

Ironically it adversely effects jobs like teaching and social work, where you know teachers getting done for drunk and disorderly/drunk driving is abit incovenient when they're otherwise good teachers.  

Its all under a process of review at the moment, however its not likely to get very far..other than afew cosmetic changes around the edges imo.


----------

