# GAME group will not stock future EA titles



## fen_boy (Feb 29, 2012)

Including Mass Effect 3.

See http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-29-game-not-stocking-mass-effect-3-or-ea-games-past-ssx and http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-29-revealed-games-memo-to-staff-on-mass-effect-3-cancellation

It seems they couldn't agree credit terms with EA so they're no longer going to stock EA titles. They've been on a downward slope for a while, this may be the final nail in their coffin. I'll miss the second hand section at Gamestation.


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## Santino (Feb 29, 2012)

Challenge Everything


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## mr steev (Feb 29, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> I'll miss the second hand section at Gamestation.


 
Tbf, EA have been trying their hardest to kill the second hand market in games


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## Ax^ (Feb 29, 2012)

why do I have a feeling the moment game goes under my trusty old elite is going to blow up in my face 

but aye EA have been working for ages to kill off the second hand market just another set forward in their plans


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## tommers (Feb 29, 2012)

EA are fuckers and mass effect 3 epitomizes everything that is wrong with the gaming industry at the moment.


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## revol68 (Feb 29, 2012)

I've no love for GAME but yeah EA are clearly cunts; I loved Mass Effect but have really struggled to sty interested in Mass Effect 2 cos the story is too structured around "stages", it feels so inorganic compared to the first one. The whole adding in multiplayer to Mass Effect 3 is a load of balls and like you say represents everything that is fucked with the games industry at the moment.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 29, 2012)

origin


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## tommers (Feb 29, 2012)

I earned about 50 different weapons for it when I bought some razors in boots yesterday.  

Your momma's so fat she's a downloadable planet in mass effect.


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## Ax^ (Feb 29, 2012)

tommers said:


> Your momma's so fat she's a downloadable planet in mass effect.




For that joke you get an arrow through  the knee


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## Garek (Feb 29, 2012)

Good article here.


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## mwgdrwg (Feb 29, 2012)

GAME are fucked, where will little Johnny get his Fifa13 from?

I hate EA though, their reluctance to develop for the Sega Dreamcast was part of it's downfall.


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## tommers (Feb 29, 2012)

Garek said:


> Good article here.


 
That is a good article.  Especially the end, that most of the innovation and actual new, interesting, stuff is coming out from indies on digital download.


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## fen_boy (Feb 29, 2012)

tommers said:


> Especially the end, that most of the innovation and actual new, interesting, stuff is coming out from indies on digital download.


 
Definitely.

In related news the GAME group also won't be stocking Mario Party 9, see http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-29-game-group-not-stocking-mario-party-9, so I guess Nintendo have similarly restricted the credit available to GAME.


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## tommers (Feb 29, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> For that joke you get an arrow through the knee


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## tommers (Feb 29, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> Definitely.
> 
> In related news the GAME group also won't be stocking Mario Party 9, see http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-29-game-group-not-stocking-mario-party-9, so I guess Nintendo have similarly restricted the credit available to GAME.


 
I wonder why not?  Maybe it's just a sign that Game aren't able to pay their bills.  It doesn't make sense for publishers to restrict an outlet and advertising for their products - especially if its an arrangement that has been working in the past.


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## Stigmata (Feb 29, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> I hate EA though, their reluctance to develop for the Sega Dreamcast was part of it's downfall.


 
Really? The Dreamcast is the only console i've ever owned.


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## mwgdrwg (Mar 1, 2012)

Stigmata said:


> Really? The Dreamcast is the only console i've ever owned.


 
Yes definitely, the lack of an EA Fifa or John Madden game really did some damage.


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## ymu (Mar 1, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> but aye EA have been working for ages to kill off the second hand market just another set forward in their plans


Which seems like madness. Car manufacturers actively support the second-hand market because they know their customers won't be able to buy new as often without a thriving second-hand market. I don't see anything fundamentally different about games when they cost £40+ new.

Same short-sightedness as that over music/film downloading I guess. Are there any sane players in electronic media yet?


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## Pingu (Mar 1, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> origin


 which is a bagoshite


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## tommers (Mar 1, 2012)

I think that was the point.


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## Ax^ (Mar 1, 2012)

ymu said:


> Which seems like madness. Car manufacturers actively support the second-hand market because they know their customers won't be able to buy new as often without a thriving second-hand market. I don't see anything fundamentally different about games when they cost £40+ new.
> 
> Same short-sightedness as that over music/film downloading I guess. Are there any sane players in electronic media yet?



Not the only big player trying to kill off the second hand market, just trying to do for consoles what the steam platform has done for pc games,

Same prices but you don't have to waste money in production and shipping of media..

How things are going to be honest


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## kabbes (Mar 1, 2012)

ymu said:


> Which seems like madness. Car manufacturers actively support the second-hand market because they know their customers won't be able to buy new as often without a thriving second-hand market. I don't see anything fundamentally different about games when they cost £40+ new.


I've been arguing that exact point for years on various gaming sites. Very few seem able to comprehend it. Talk about velocity of money flow and you lose them completely.


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## kabbes (Mar 1, 2012)

Game are fucked, mind, and not least because they got greedy with their second-hand market.

The whole point of the second-hand market is to recycle the money back into the gaming system.  That's good for the publishers, because people are encouraged to buy new, sell second-hand and then buy new again.  And it encourages people into the system with cheaper entry points.  And a thousand other things that I can no longer be bothered to argue.

But Game decided that if a new game costs £40, they could sell a second-hand version for £35.  That undermines the whole basis of the secondary market.  And of course, they wouldn't give the gamer anything close to £35 for buying their second-hand game to resell -- nonono.

It worked nicely for them for a while, because they could resell the same game 10 times and make a profit on it each time.  But gradually, all the effects from a secondary market disappeared, because it wasn't doing its job properly any more.  And at that point, Game's custom drained away.

You can tell Game are properly fucked because they even had to close their Canary Wharf store.  Hundreds of thousands of bored City workers with money to burn and a gaming habit, and Game couldn't manage to make a profit out of them.  You couldn't make it up, as they say.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Mar 1, 2012)

Game are total GITS so, while I would be sad that people lose jobs, seeing as their job is to fleece teenagers of their pocket money I'm not that sad.


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## revol68 (Mar 1, 2012)

yep, GAME's trade in prices are a joke and in many cases have felt like such a slap in the face that I've just kept a game I have no intention of playing again rather than take their insulting offer and put it towards a new game I actually want.

LIke kabbes said it seems the cretins didn't get the fact that a decent 2nd hand market helps speed up turn over within the whole gaming industry and instead saw got sucked in by short sighted ridiculous profit margins.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 1, 2012)

I'm conflicted here, because while GAME are cunts and I have no sympathy for their boo-hoo "we can't get stock on credit" antics, EA are even bigger, industry-defiling cunts, and also treat developers like shit which is something that has personal resonance for me.


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## sim667 (Mar 1, 2012)

Game are overpriced, game station is where it's at


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## revol68 (Mar 1, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Game are overpriced, game station is where it's at


 
Same company lol

GAME is the family friendly one for mums and dads, staffed with cheery muppets who think you are an idiot.

Gamestation is aimed at the younger more "hardcore" gamer, staffed with long haired gamers who know something about games.

But still the same company.


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## ymu (Mar 1, 2012)

kabbes said:


> I've been arguing that exact point for years on various gaming sites. Very few seem able to comprehend it. Talk about velocity of money flow and you lose them completely.


Pretty sure I nicked it off you, tbh. Would have credited you if I'd been sure who first brought this excellent point to my attention.


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## METH LAB (Mar 1, 2012)

is this GAME or GAME STATION that are cutting off EA? Or are game and game station the same group?

EA being a right bunch of pricks..the second hand market is well handy for skint people.

peace


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 2, 2012)

Game are fucked then...


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## elbows (Mar 9, 2012)

They are in the death spiral for sure now. Popped in today and they didn't even have the official Wii controller in stock, although that may be a co-incidence. But they have some sale going on which only increases the impression that it will be all over for them within weeks. Someone buying them seems like their only reasonable prospect for survival.


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## kabbes (Mar 9, 2012)

Game really fail even on their own supposed terms.  It's supposed to be the store that your mum can enter to buy you a game.  But nobody ever thought through how to achieve this, other than to have bright purple lights and wide aisles.  Games are grouped by console, and alphabetically.  And that's it.  No "genres", no "if you liked this, try that", no "critic's choice", no _anything_ that "adds value", in the parlance of our time.  Sure, you can swallow your doubts and ask one of the uninterested and inarticulate youths that work there for advice, but there is no attempt to make that process a pleasant one.  

This is no way to run the biggest shopping outlet for (depending on how you measure it) the most successful media form on the planet.  It's not some hobbyists' niche any more.  They shouldn't be expecting people to have kept up with the latest industry news and reviews.  Not if they wanted to attract the audience they wanted, in any case.

I have to lay the blame for Game's failure firmly at the feet of the senior management, who had no imagination, no vision, no willingness to try new things, even on a trial basis in trial stores.  Utterly hopeless and they've ended up getting exactly what they deserved.


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## elbows (Mar 12, 2012)

Even with imagination Im not sure how they would have survived. Internet sales, including downloadable games, were always going to hurt the high-street. And there hasn't been a major new non-portable console to create vast new demand for some time now. Throw in the slower release cycles due to the sheer scale of AAA titles these days, and various pressures on margins and costs, and its no surprise that Game are in deep trouble. Especially with the wider economic issues not specific to the games industry.

The BBC now has a story about some suppliers refusing to deal with them, as attention turns towards administration and what may follow:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17336697


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## kabbes (Mar 12, 2012)

High street retail was of _course _always going to come under pressure.  And that's exactly why (a) they needed to add value for consumers, providing them in-store with something they couldn't get elsewhere; and (b) own the online space too.  

Missing the second point is the same mistake all the other big retailers also made in other sectors.  They thought that they had to defend themselves from online competition rather than recognise that online sales _complement_ high street sales, that the channel of sale is not important so long as you get the consumer in your store.  Who is better placed to become the biggest online retailer in a sector than an established, big brand?  But they didn't think like that, so they were late to the party and, crucially, when they arrived at the party, they tried to put on last year's music to dance to.

Who were Amazon a decade ago?  Why couldn't Waterstones, Dixons, HMV, Game and the rest of them have got there first?  They already had the brand recognition, they were already the consumer's first choice.  But first they tried to pretend that online wasn't going to hurt them and then they tried to treat online as nothing but a catalogue for in-store.  

As an example of the latter point -- why did they charge postage on purchases?  Amazon realised that the savings they made from not having to pay rent on a high street store more than offset postage costs, so they gave postage away for free.  But the high street retailers tried to charge online consumers the high street prices _and then put postage on top_.  It doesn't stack up. 

Game needed to take a hard look at themselves a while ago and create a multi-pronged sales strategy.  They needed to create proper value-add in-store by creating an environment where those who weren't sure what they were doing could get some proper help to decide and feel good about going there and feel good about their choice of purchase.  They needed to create a decent online purchasing environment that was more than just an online catalogue -- basically, what Amazon did.  And they needed to work out how they could get into the download space and become the pre-eminent choice there too.  My imagination runs low on that one but then, I'm not being paid a fortune to be a CEO of a games retailing giant.  But put it this way -- if Valve could do it, Game could have done it.

Whining now about how it isn't their fault, it's just the nasty Internet that has killed them is to really duck responsibility -- it's basically saying that strategic leadership of an organisation isn't worth a damn.  The executive team are being paid a fortune precisely to see this issues coming and work out how to turn threats into opportunities.  They failed to do this and they should face the music accordingly.


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## BigTom (Mar 12, 2012)

kabbes said:


> Who were Amazon a decade ago? Why couldn't Waterstones, Dixons, HMV, Game and the rest of them have got there first? They already had the brand recognition, they were already the consumer's first choice. But first they tried to pretend that online wasn't going to hurt them and then they tried to treat online as nothing but a catalogue for in-store.


 
Mate who worked for Waterstone's at the time had a  story to tell about this.. I can't remember the details and he's not around, but basically Waterstone's decided not to launch their own website, because the internet is a fad and no-one buys stuff on there anyway, especially books.  Instead they went into partnership with ... Amazon! who creamed a load of profit off the top of their sales for a couple of years before Waterstone's found that there was a huge volume of sales online and left the partnership to setup their own site.. way too late because Amazon was established by then.
This was before Amazon marketplace let anyone sell.. it was a proper corporate link up but I can't remember the exact details. 

Down to a CEO or board or director who probably didn't know how to use the internet.


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## pogofish (Mar 12, 2012)

The local Game store is apparently having a massive fire sale from today, so it looks like they may be shifting stock prior to closing?

Folk from work were down and came back with PS3s for £99, which is apparently pretty good?


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 12, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> GAME are fucked, where will little Johnny get his Fifa13 from?
> 
> I hate EA though, their reluctance to develop for the Sega Dreamcast was part of it's downfall.



They said the reason was Sega wasn't investing enough in advertising it to create a market worth competing in.


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## The Boy (Mar 13, 2012)

pogofish said:


> The local Game store is apparently having a massive fire sale from today, so it looks like they may be shifting stock prior to closing?


 
Or trying to cash in the bank so they can pay up front for EA and Wii stock?


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## revol68 (Mar 13, 2012)

kabbes said:


> High street retail was of _course _always going to come under pressure. And that's exactly why (a) they needed to add value for consumers, providing them in-store with something they couldn't get elsewhere; and (b) own the online space too.
> 
> Missing the second point is the same mistake all the other big retailers also made in other sectors. They thought that they had to defend themselves from online competition rather than recognise that online sales _complement_ high street sales, that the channel of sale is not important so long as you get the consumer in your store. Who is better placed to become the biggest online retailer in a sector than an established, big brand? But they didn't think like that, so they were late to the party and, crucially, when they arrived at the party, they tried to put on last year's music to dance to.
> 
> ...


 
All good points but doesn't this get a bit close to overlooking the wider structural problem which means there is always more losers than winners within capitalism and that all the good ideas and leadership in the world can't really do much in the face of massive market forces, technological development and 3 years of recession and drop in consumer spending.

I think for retail stores to survive they have to go niche, they have to provide something more and even then that is only to capture or retain a shrinking market.


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## kabbes (Mar 13, 2012)

That is also fair.


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## elbows (Mar 14, 2012)

The problem with niche is whether it can sustain the overheads of physical retail space. Traditionally I think that if you are in a niche that doesn't result in massive quantity of customers, you have to make good profit on each item sold or find some other way of subsidising the business, and with the internet sales in effect this is much easier said than done.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2012)

You could do stuff the internet doesn't do well in terms of people meeting face to face.


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## mr steev (Mar 14, 2012)

There's a pretty strong rumour that the next x-box due for release next year won't have a disc drive. It seems like the end of the road for the likes of game. I can't see them being able to survive just selling consoles and accessories


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## TitanSound (Mar 14, 2012)

mr steev said:


> There's a pretty strong rumour that the next x-box due for release next year won't have a disc drive. It seems like the end of the road for the likes of game. I can't see them being able to survive just selling consoles and accessories


 
I'd call bullshit on that though.

What about people who choose to have no internet connection or cannot actually get one? Or even if they have an internet connection, what if it's a very low speed connection? Battlefield 3 was split over two DVD's. People waiting days for a game to download? I doubt it. Same for people with usage limits.


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## mr steev (Mar 14, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> I'd call bullshit on that though.
> 
> What about people who choose to have no internet connection or cannot actually get one? Or even if they have an internet connection, what if it's a very low speed connection? Battlefield 3 was split over two DVD's. People waiting days for a game to download? I doubt it. Same for people with usage limits.


 
I agree. They'd also loose the fact that you can play your old games on the new machine. But MS didn't deny the rumour, only said something along the lines of 'we are always looking to the future and for new ways to break the life-cycle'. Make of that what you will.

I suppose they could always sell an external disc drive as an extra, but I'd imagine the number of gamers without a decent internet connection is very small compared to those connected


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## TitanSound (Mar 14, 2012)

mr steev said:


> I suppose they could always sell an external disc drive as an extra, but I'd imagine the number of gamers without a decent internet connection is very small compared to those connected


 
I doubt people would go for that though. People may be connected but like I said, doesn't mean they could download a 14GB game in about an hour like I could.


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## mr steev (Mar 14, 2012)

There is also talk of "interchangeable solid state storage" so perhaps games won't be only available to download


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## TitanSound (Mar 14, 2012)

mr steev said:


> There is also talk of "interchangeable solid state storage" so perhaps games won't be only available to download


 

??


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## mr steev (Mar 14, 2012)

It does seem like a step backwards


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## tommers (Mar 14, 2012)

I never understood why more consoles don't use cartridges.  No loading, no piracy.  I'm sure there is a reason, and I'm sure somebody will tell me.


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## mr steev (Mar 14, 2012)

tommers said:


> I never understood why more consoles don't use cartridges. No loading, no piracy. I'm sure there is a reason, and I'm sure somebody will tell me.


 
cost of production/profit margin I would imagine


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## elbows (Mar 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You could do stuff the internet doesn't do well in terms of people meeting face to face.


 
There is only so much 'value' that can be added, not enough to save a huge swathe of traditional retail in my opinion. 'value' as a desperate hope of soon to be extinct middlemen doesn't carry that much weight with me.


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## elbows (Mar 14, 2012)

Plus if human behaviour hasn't changed much since I worked in a computer shop, a good percentage of your 'customers' will abuse your added value. They will feed off your knowledge and then go and buy elsewhere based purely on price. Some don't, but are they enough to keep you profitable?


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## revol68 (Mar 14, 2012)

Not only will people use it, like I do when I go into HMV to get ideas for what to download or Waterstones for what to buy off Amazon, but what is "value added" for some people is a negative to others, for example Game have loads of cheery earnest staff meant to help you out, but for a considerable amount of gamers this is just an nuisance and if they wanted help they'd ask for it. You don't get this crap when buying from a supermarket or online.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 14, 2012)

tommers said:


> I never understood why more consoles don't use cartridges.  No loading, no piracy.  I'm sure there is a reason, and I'm sure somebody will tell me.



Cartridge based systems (nintendo ds for one) can get chipped for pirated games too. 

If a man can make it, a man can break it.


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## elbows (Mar 14, 2012)

I would guess that cartridges lost out more because of the duplication cost:storage space ratio, for quite some years discs have been far more attractive on this front. With the cheap price of flash storage the balance may shift in the other direction I suppose, but so far this has only really happened for the mobile consoles. And I don't think they will be called cartridges again, the term evokes old-fashioned images now, too bulky for the modern age of small.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> I'd call bullshit on that though.
> 
> What about people who choose to have no internet connection or cannot actually get one? Or even if they have an internet connection, what if it's a very low speed connection? Battlefield 3 was split over two DVD's. People waiting days for a game to download? I doubt it. Same for people with usage limits.


 
People...choose to not...have an internet connection?


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> There is only so much 'value' that can be added, not enough to save a huge swathe of traditional retail in my opinion. 'value' as a desperate hope of soon to be extinct middlemen doesn't carry that much weight with me.


 
Well we're not talking about saving the entire retail industry, just Game...


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## TitanSound (Mar 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> And I don't think they will be called cartridges again, the term evokes old-fashioned images now, too bulky for the modern age of small.


 
ISD.

"Intelligent Storage Device"


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## TitanSound (Mar 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> People...choose to not...have an internet connection?


 
Come on, some people are just _weird_ man!


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> Come on, some people are just _weird_ man!


 
They're more than weird man!


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## Citizen66 (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder how much money ive accrued on my game loyalty card. That came in well handy but guess i ought to spend whats on there before they go belly up.


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## TitanSound (Mar 14, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I wonder how much money ive accrued on my game loyalty card. That came in well handy but guess i ought to spend whats on there before they go belly up.


 
Same here. I'm going to grab GoW3 as a mate got it and said Horde is great fun.


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## elbows (Mar 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well we're not talking about saving the entire retail industry, just Game...


 
Well I've yet to hear a specific suggestion that would actually save them. Some people have tried on this thread, but none of them struck me as being anything like enough to turn around a companies fortunes. 

For example I simply do not believe that there are enough potential customers out there who 'don't know what they are doing' that you could hope to tap into to the extent that their fortunes are transformed. A good chunk of these people are also going to be on tight budgets, and even if you get them to buy from you, the margins on products aren't so amazing that you can spend too much time on this service. Also the chances of employing highly knowledgeable staff are limited by the wages paid in the retail sector, and by the fact that dealing with confused customers requires not only extensive product knowledge, but the ability to decipher the customers confusing explanation of the problem, communication or listening difficulties, lack of patience etc.

Its no good the retail sector looking to Apple for easy inspiration. Apple have the luxury of making their own stuff, and getting a premium price for it. Maybe at a push PC World/Dixons/Currys can make a go of the 'black' boutique retail experiments, we shall see. And even Apple aren't going to attempt to have a presence in every town, they know what scale is needed to be worth the hassle and sadly its a poor fit for the broader retail picture on high-streets up and down the land.


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## elbows (Mar 14, 2012)

Also I've only witnessed one period in my working life where I fancied being in computer etc retail. My first job was part-time in a local independent computer shop, and it was during the period where the Amiga and Atari home systems had come down to a price that was within many a households budget. On Saturdays leading up to Christmas even a non-salesman like myself was able to shift plenty of Amiga & Atari ST bundles, and I bet the numbers added up nicely. The customer got things at what seemed like a fair price, but there was still a nice profit per unit for the retailer, and we could add some meaningful value.

Well this didn't last that long really, within a few years it was gone, eaten by consoles at one end and the home pc on the other. There was still enough profit in the pc side of things for a time, still ways to easily add value and still no internet to compete with, and a lack of supermarket-scale competitors. But for some reasons the games-console thing really didn't sustain the shop in the way the Amigas and Atari's had, I guess there was a different pricing & distribution structure or customers had started to look elsewhere for such products, not really sure.

Based on this I assume that the likes of Game needed major console hardware releases more often than has been the case, look at how long its been since the last gen of non-portable consoles came out. Coupling this with internet developments and I really see why they would struggle even if they found some new in-store gimmicks.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> Well I've yet to hear a specific suggestion that would actually save them. Some people have tried on this thread, but none of them struck me as being anything like enough to turn around a companies fortunes.
> 
> For example I simply do not believe that there are enough potential customers out there who 'don't know what they are doing' that you could hope to tap into to the extent that their fortunes are transformed. A good chunk of these people are also going to be on tight budgets, and even if you get them to buy from you, the margins on products aren't so amazing that you can spend too much time on this service. Also the chances of employing highly knowledgeable staff are limited by the wages paid in the retail sector, and by the fact that dealing with confused customers requires not only extensive product knowledge, but the ability to decipher the customers confusing explanation of the problem, communication or listening difficulties, lack of patience etc.
> 
> Its no good the retail sector looking to Apple for easy inspiration. Apple have the luxury of making their own stuff, and getting a premium price for it. Maybe at a push PC World/Dixons/Currys can make a go of the 'black' boutique retail experiments, we shall see. And even Apple aren't going to attempt to have a presence in every town, they know what scale is needed to be worth the hassle and sadly its a poor fit for the broader retail picture on high-streets up and down the land.



Lol I wouldn't hold your breath on posters on here having a magic plan to save Game!


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2012)

Looks like Nintendo aren't listing them for an upcoming release...


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## kabbes (Mar 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> Well I've yet to hear a specific suggestion that would actually save them. Some people have tried on this thread, but none of them struck me as being anything like enough to turn around a companies fortunes.


It's too late.  The mistakes were made years ago.  It's a strategic thing, not a tactical one.  The execs should have been looking 3-5 years ahead and seen trends coming.  You can't just react to them after the event.


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## elbows (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, though I doubt there is much appetite by executives for really looking at future scenarios where your core business model looks dead. Selling high volumes online/mailorder but discounting more is quite a bit different to high-street retail, Im not surprised they didn't get into that, especially as many of the success stories in this space are also selling far more than just games & associated hardware.

And when it comes to phenomenon such as downloadable games, they never stood a chance in this area really, theres already enough people trying to carve wealth out of this space, no pie left once the publishers or platform owners have taken their cut. The middle-man whose just been squeezed out isn't likely to be the one that manages to reinvent itself to fit into the remaining space, its not going to develop its own platform or its own titles so its stuffed.


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## kabbes (Mar 14, 2012)

That attitude is fair enough from you or me.  I'm not convinced that the Game shareholders should be happy with it from their very highly paid executive directors though.  Their attempts to do _anything_ other than carry on selling in the same old alphabetised high-street no-added-value way were just non-existent.

They may have failed anyway but frankly they didn't even try.


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## elbows (Mar 14, 2012)

Shareholders should think more about what shares they hold. If you think that high-street gaming is gonna get in trouble then I don't think sitting tight and hoping senior management have a cunning plan is a good idea.


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## revol68 (Mar 14, 2012)

who gives a fuck about shareholders, it's the poor fucks working for GAME that will get shafted by this.


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## elbows (Mar 15, 2012)

Yeah, I was just responding to the point because I don't think executives are solely to blame if their widgets go out of style or the widget selling business changes in a way that isn't easy to fight.

Im quite depressed about the workers because the retail workers have taken the brunt of so much, and their pay sucks at the best of times, and redundancy is still fresh on my mind since I lost my (non-retail) job in December. But when I went to the store the other week I had forgotten about the companies plight, only remembered after I'd left empty-handed. Might be lucky for the staff that Id forgotten though as Im not sure dreary commiserations about their fate from me would have helped them on this dark road.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 15, 2012)

revol68 said:


> who gives a fuck about shareholders, it's the poor fucks working for GAME that will get shafted by this.


 
'Shareholders' are fairly often pension schemes for poor fuckers like those working for Game. 

The bottom line is they were never going to be able to compete with the likes of Steam. Choice - you can either click 'buy' and wait a bit while it downloads or you can walk out into the rain, spend a fiver on return transport to a shop and cross your fingers that they have it in stock. The XBox announcing the dropping of their dvd drive just compounded their fate.


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## treelover (Mar 19, 2012)

'The XBox announcing the dropping of their dvd drive just compounded their fate.'

Ah, so no second hand xbox games, no piracy, tied completely to microsoft download service, what they always dreamed of, monopoly anyone?


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## TitanSound (Mar 19, 2012)

treelover said:


> 'The XBox announcing the dropping of their dvd drive just compounded their fate.'
> 
> Ah, so no second hand xbox games, no piracy, tied completely to microsoft download service, what they always dreamed of, monopoly anyone?


 
Where was this announced?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 19, 2012)

No annoucements. Just "buzz". Although i thought i'd read something more official somewhere but cant remember where. 

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/exclusive-no-disc-drive-for-next-xbox/092534


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## TitanSound (Mar 19, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> No annoucements. Just "buzz".
> 
> http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/exclusive-no-disc-drive-for-next-xbox/092534


 



> The briefings have been issued under what MCV’s source describes as “the strictest NDA” they have ever encountered.


 
Yeah, really strict!


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## Citizen66 (Mar 19, 2012)

See edit. I wrote that post after reading it somewhere legit, just cant remember where now. Anyway, wouldnt surprise me if theyre going to try and take out the middle man.


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## kabbes (Mar 19, 2012)

At this point in the development of the infrastructure, removing any kind of physical removable media player would be suicide.  Maybe they could do it for the next cycle, should separate consoles still be a viable business model at that point.

Actually, regarding that last clause, it made me think: by the time bandwidth is plentiful and fast enough on a widespread enough basis to justify dropping physical media, we will probably also be into the much-touted onlive world anyway.  At some point, the replication of individual physical console boxes is surely going to have to become an inefficient approach.


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## mauvais (Mar 19, 2012)

I think you could get rid of the physical removable media (for primary content) quite soon to be honest - not entirely sure it's now, but it must be coming. I went to reinstall Windows 7 on my PC a few weeks ago, only to find that the DVD was still in there from when I'd installed it 18 months before.

Thin clients (e.g. OnLive) I'm less sure about. I'm surprised by the positive reviews of it so maybe it will work, but with the exception of storage and content delivery (i.e. not processing), very little else has successfully made the transition to 'the cloud'.


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## kabbes (Mar 19, 2012)

mauvais said:


> I think you could get rid of the physical removable media (for primary content) quite soon to be honest - not entirely sure it's now, but it must be coming. I went to reinstall Windows 7 on my PC a few weeks ago, only to find that the DVD was still in there from when I'd installed it 18 months before.


The average console game is something like 3-4 gigs these days though, isn't it?  And if the past is any guide, you can expect the next generation to multiply that by a factor of, what, five or so?

It would literally take a lot of people weeks to download 10 gigs or more.


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## mauvais (Mar 19, 2012)

kabbes said:


> The average console game is something like 3-4 gigs these days though, isn't it? And if the past is any guide, you can expect the next generation to multiply that by a factor of, what, five or so?
> 
> It would literally take a lot of people weeks to download 10 gigs or more.


Only the Welsh, but yeah. On a fast connection it's already workable though. You might end up closer to streaming game content - after all you only need a level/world at a time in many games.


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## kabbes (Mar 19, 2012)

1/3 of the country fall into a category defined by BT as being uneconomic to upgrade.  I know because we fall into that category.  Fortunately, we managed to win BT's Race To Infinity competition and be one of seven villages in the country that will have their network upgraded.  But everybody else in that category is going to stay as they are.  As part of a competition-winning team, I've spent a lot of time discussing it in detail with the BT director responsible.

So to put our current speeds into context: at the moment, pre-upgrade, we typically get less than 0.5Mb/s.  Often it's less than 0.25Mb/s.  Downloading things can easily end up less than 100Kbps for long periods.  And to spell out what that means: if I download a 2Gb film, say, it can currently take a week, particularly if I don't leave the computer on night and day.

I think that's pretty typical for a lot of the country.  We're only in Surrey, after all, not in the wilds of Cumbria.  And it's not going to change, at least in the foreseeable future.  For about 20 million people.

This is what any console manufacturer who wants to eliminate physical transferable media is up against.  And whilst the UK is certainly a long way from being the best country in its network infrastructure, it's definitely not the worst.  

I just don't think a manufacturer can currently afford to give up on such a market.


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## TitanSound (Mar 19, 2012)

kabbes said:


> 1/3 of the country fall into a category defined by BT as being uneconomic to upgrade. I know because we fall into that category. Fortunately, we managed to win BT's Race To Infinity competition and be one of seven villages in the country that will have their network upgraded. But everybody else in that category is going to stay as they are. As part of a competition-winning team, I've spent a lot of time discussing it in detail with the BT director responsible.
> 
> So to put our current speeds into context: at the moment, pre-upgrade, we typically get less than 0.5Mb/s. Often it's less than 0.25Mb/s. Downloading things can easily end up less than 100Kbps for long periods. And to spell out what that means: if I download a 2Gb film, say, it can currently take a week, particularly if I don't leave the computer on night and day.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for putting my argument against removing the media drive into words and paragraphs and stuff.


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## Ranbay (Mar 19, 2012)

mauvais said:


> Only the Welsh, but yeah. On a fast connection it's already workable though. You might end up closer to streaming game content - after all you only need a level/world at a time in many games.


 
100MB here in Wales thanks


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## TitanSound (Mar 19, 2012)

kabbes said:


> It would literally take a lot of people weeks to download 10 gigs or more.


 
As I said earlier in the thread, Battlefield 3 came on 2 discs for the 360. One for the PS3, because of the blu-ray drive. BF3 Is 14GB, plus a hefty, nearly 2GB patch in December with the map packs. That's 16GB so far. Throw in at least 3 more expansions to come and that's 22GB roughly. This is a game that squeezes every bit of performance out of the 360. It's only logical that games will be upwards of 20GB, as standard, in a year or so due to the next gen hardware becoming avaliable for developers.

If not a disc drive, it will certainly almost need some kind of storage/media port. I remember Crispy saying in a thread that a *huge* number of xbox's sold have never been connected to the internet. That's a lot of customers to ignore.


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## mauvais (Mar 19, 2012)

Al Gore doesn't care about village people.

You're right, but I suspect that at some point you will be left behind the infrastructure, because it will be a sliding window on someone's cost/benefit analysis. I mean, it takes me about 14 minutes to download said film, which should be a rate that gets me playing a well designed game _instantly_.

What I guess you might see is an interim measure whereby you can get USB stick games or something, but where that retail availability is not mainstream because most people are using web-based services.


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## kabbes (Mar 19, 2012)

I think you need people to have in excess of 4Mb/s before download becomes a sensible alternative to physical storage for games of 20GB+.  It will take about 1.5 hours to download 20GB if you consistently receive 4MB/s for the entire time.  That sounds reasonable.

We're so far off those kinds of speeds being standard that it isn't even funny.


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## TitanSound (Mar 19, 2012)

I've heard that the only reason we didn't have "super fast" broadband from the cable companies for the past ten years is because the Government wouldn't allow it. No competition. BT had sat around on their arses during the late 80's and 90's whilst Cable and Wireless were laying down infastructure like mad bastards. It's only now that BT have spent the last five years or so investing in 'Infinity' that Virgin can release the hounds and give people 20mbps as the basic package.

But, as you've already said, the basic priniciple of "will it be cost effective?" affects a great deal of the population.


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## Sunray (Mar 20, 2012)

Steam is where I get games now for the PC, not had a DVD player in my PC for years now, its in there but technology surpassed it with a SATA only motherboard.  I've not needed it apart from the time I tried to play RE5 again after that damaged save game incident.

For a new console not to have a blu-ray player means its not going to be the media hub they want.  I doubt it will be disc free from that perspective alone.  Games might be loaded by a disc but its probably going to be enabled by the internet with scratch cards in the box.  Could do an Amazon and supply it with a GSM connection and do it over that.


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## kabbes (Mar 20, 2012)

TBF, I've probably only watched two or three DVDs in the last few years.  But an SD film typically clocks in at about 400MB, for which I personally can stand waiting a day to download.  Others are not so patient.

20GB+ is a whole different ball game if you don't have very fast speeds.


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## METH LAB (Mar 21, 2012)

20mpbs lol..im lucky to get 1.5 out here in the sticks...2.5 on a good day. no cable, no fuckin exchanges with the right equipment so if i wanted sky ide would cost me a shit load coz they would have i would have to pay for there gear being used at the exchanges..or something.


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## TitanSound (Mar 21, 2012)

Shares have been suspended. Unless they get a sugar daddy, looks like they're defo going under.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17455742


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## sim667 (Mar 21, 2012)

I've just seen on BBC news game are filing for administration

Edit: BBC news, not BBQ news.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Mar 21, 2012)

well I went in today to pick over the bones of Game. Only the manager and the deputy manager were there. And he was quite grumpy (I guess as he's gonna lose his jobs). I was expecting muchos bargains but the discounts, generous for game standards, meant everything was only marginally more expensive than buying it online. The only heavily discounted stuff was the pre-order pre-owned stuff. Soon I am sure we'll be able to swoop on a fire sale....


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

Hmmm yep I'm waiting vulture like for the fire sale...


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## sim667 (Mar 22, 2012)

whats a fire sale?

Ill pop in over the weekend, theres nothing im particularly after though.


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## TitanSound (Mar 22, 2012)

sim667 said:


> whats a fire sale?


 
Everything must go!!

I'm so pissed off. A decent online vinyl stockist has 20% off this week. I have no money until Monday. GAME pretty much goes bust and there are games I can probably pick up for a fraction of the cost and I have no money until Monday.

FML etc...


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## sim667 (Mar 22, 2012)

wonga.com


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## Ranbay (Mar 22, 2012)

wondering if it's worth heading down today.....


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## TitanSound (Mar 22, 2012)

sim667 said:


> wonga.com


 
Fuck. That.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 22, 2012)

I need to spend whatever is on my loyalty card. Which wont be much as hadn't bought anything from there for a while. 

/contribution to downfall.


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## TitanSound (Mar 22, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I need to spend whatever is on my loyalty card. Which wont be much as hadn't bought anything from there for a while.
> 
> /contribution to downfall.


 

Shit, good point!


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## tommers (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm going to pop in.  I checked the other day but it was still more than elsewhere, and I have fuck all money atm.


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## sim667 (Mar 22, 2012)

I reckon ive got like 4 points on my loyalty card


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## tommers (Mar 22, 2012)

This is shit though. There's only hmv left now.


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## TitanSound (Mar 22, 2012)

tommers said:


> This is shit though. There's only hmv left now.


 
And they're hardly on solid ground. They had to take out big loans last year, no?


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## tommers (Mar 22, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> And they're hardly on solid ground. They had to take out big loans last year, no?



Yep. They're about to go under too.  My mate used to work for them and now works for Amazon - sign of the times.


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## kabbes (Mar 22, 2012)

I still think there is a place for a high street presence.  Clearly the Game model doesn't work, but that doesn't mean it is impossible.

If I didn't have a secure job that I would be crazy to leave, I'd be tempted to give it a crack.


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## Ranbay (Mar 22, 2012)

not much going on, all PS2 stuff is buy one get one free on pre owend, picked up 4 games for £2
got Uncharted 3 (new) and GT5 (preowend) for £30 and £15

going to unhack my PS3 as it's just a massive pain in the arse playing anything new on it....

used my points up so all that came in under £45


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## sim667 (Mar 22, 2012)

Hmm, i might see if there's a pre-owned forza 4 there.

What I really want is the deadliest catch game


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## kabbes (Mar 22, 2012)

Hard to actually _find_ a Game these days.  Most of the ones I knew about are now closed.


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## Ranbay (Mar 22, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Hmm, i might see if there's a pre-owned forza 4 there.
> 
> What I really want is the deadliest catch game


 
I got that on the 360, not played it tho..... lol


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## sim667 (Mar 22, 2012)

I just want it for the top gear track


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 22, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> And they're hardly on solid ground. They had to take out big loans last year, no?



Yup they've had problems for some time innit...


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## METH LAB (Mar 24, 2012)

game station are still quite pricey but game shops are givin stuff out for a quid or 2..psp games at least.. maybe 2 or 3 quid for a ps3 game in some cases.

go get it now i guess...although the news was on and they say game shops arnt closing for the forseable future *shrug*

peace


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## Ranbay (Mar 24, 2012)

makes me laugh when you see pre owned stuff selling for more than new sometimes....

and Fifa 10 for like 98p


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## Termite Man (Mar 25, 2012)

Just been in game to pick up some pre owned games, the assistant asked if I wanted a loyalty card and I replied by asking if there was any point. I feel sort of bad for that but it just came out.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Mar 26, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> Just been in game to pick up some pre owned games, the assistant asked if I wanted a loyalty card and I replied by asking if there was any point. I feel sort of bad for that but it just came out.


 
lol.. well the truth be told when I went in, as mentioned in my earlier post, I said loudly 'got any bargains' and the manager who's been there since before it was a Game gave me a total daggers look..


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## QueenOfGoths (Mar 26, 2012)

Game in Maidenhead has closed - over the weekend apparently


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## DIMPLES1 (Mar 26, 2012)

We went into Bury today to buy a wall mount for the Kinect sensor, bought one in Game & De Blob 2 for the Wii was reduced to £4.98. I love the first one, don't have the time to play at the moment, but thought, oh bargain & surely it's helping the store out too. At the till they asked if we wanted to redeem the £3 on our loyalty card. Thought, errr yes, no brainer.

We strolled over to Gamestation to see if they had any bargain prices on games I've been thinking of for River. Sure enough Dance Junior was£8. I was noseying at the front of the store as MrD paid at the counter, being served by young woman. A woman we'd just seen working in Game walked in.  As she was walking down to the counter, a bloke came out of the back to behind the counter, saw the Game woman & said (paraphrasing), " you'd better get back to your store. Have you had the phonecall? You'd better get back" and was making 'cut' signs with his hand. 

I looked at MrD who was aghast - he could hear more than me.

I felt pretty wibbly, I worked in Game part time as a student.

I headed up to MrD, & it was awful. Really, really, really sad. The young woman serving MrD, asked the bloke about them & he said when she'd finished serving, that was it 

After we left the shop they closed up.

Game was still open as we walked past a short while longer.

Feeling very  for all the staff & all the other fractions of the industry it will affect today.

Ironically, when I was a student & working part time at Game, another company I worked for part time went into administration & I know how long it took to get the monies owed me. I had a part grant & another part time job to support me. It was still a fucker though.


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## fen_boy (Mar 26, 2012)

No official list of closed stores yet, but C&VG are compiling  a list based on commenters reports of shops being closed http://www.computerandvideogames.com/341489/game-gamestation-full-list-of-reported-store-closures/


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## DIMPLES1 (Mar 26, 2012)

I forgot to say, when MrD was buying the game in Gamestation, he got asked if he wanted a loyalty card, he asked me, in disbelief I think, because of the cashing in, in Game was a no brainer. I said, "nowt to lose", but thought maybe they'd been given the heads up of selling off through them or summat. 

Sadly not, the woman was just being her usual positive, proactive member of staff. 

more


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## mwgdrwg (Mar 27, 2012)

Shame for the 2000 odd people that lost their jobs yesterday.


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## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/GameIrelandFight


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## bouncer_the_dog (Apr 4, 2012)

Went into a Game yesterday. Still has rip off prices.


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## tommers (Apr 5, 2012)

Yeah I was unimpressed. No great deals.


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