# Plagiarism :mad:



## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

I have just been accused of it





> Please find below a copy of a letter that has been put in the internal
> post to you. It is not possible to send the accompanying paperwork by email.
> 
> ____
> ...





WTF?


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## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2008)

(((((((((((((dilli and his hard work)))))))))))))))))


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## Belushi (May 8, 2008)

Well, you guilty or not? 

The Students Union should be able to help you, they really helped a mate of mine who got caught cheating in an exam.


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## Spion (May 8, 2008)

Well, did ya?


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

No!!

At least I dont think so. I referenced EVERYTHING.


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## Fruitloop (May 8, 2008)

Do you have any idea why they might think that?


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## Chairman Meow (May 8, 2008)

So, did you do it?


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

Fruitloop said:


> Do you have any idea why they might think that?



Some fairly long quotes?

I have no idea...


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## Belushi (May 8, 2008)

Must be a bigger problem in these days of the omnipresent interweb than when I was at Uni.


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

EVERYTHING was from books. I didn't even use the internetz


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## baldrick (May 8, 2008)

that's really quite serious.

i would get onto your students union welfare officer asap and see what they have to say.


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## cesare (May 8, 2008)

They run some sort of software programme for spotting c&ps nowadays don't they? Or was it a complaint?

Seems odd to mention the appeal before the decision, looks pre-decided.


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## Hocus Eye. (May 8, 2008)

Well did you did or did you didn't.  Why do they think you have copied something - any idea?


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## Belushi (May 8, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> No!!
> 
> At least I dont think so. I referenced EVERYTHING.



Thats usually the best way to do it, did you include anything you'd just rewritten without referencing it?


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Thats usually the best way to do it, did you include anything you'd just rewritten without referencing it?



I referenced EVERYTHING. Literally. 

And no, I didn't do it. And if I did I have no idea where.


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## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2008)

Way to put a downer on a beautiful sunny day of lounging on the grass enjoying that post-dissertation hand-in blissed-out haze.

There is the Independent Student Advice Unit to go to. More details are in the post. He's no cheater! He's too clever


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## Kidda (May 8, 2008)

my mate got accused of plagerism the other week because the lecturer marking the essay read it and thought ''it was far to well written and she was sure she had heard the argument somewhere before, it must have been stolen''

she was writing about feminism, the person marking it has her specialist work in girls youth work and feminism.

feminism isnt a new thing so of course she has heard the argument somewhere before. 

my mate was basically accused publicly and when they realised she was just good at writing essays they quietly gave her her mark without so much as a sorry.


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## baldrick (May 8, 2008)

cesare said:


> They run some sort of software programme for spotting c&ps nowadays don't they? Or was it a complaint?
> 
> Seems odd to mention the appeal before the decision, looks pre-decided.


no, i think they're just making absolutely sure that you know what could happen.

i reiterate that you should go immediately to the union and/or your tutor, explain the situation and ask their advice.


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## Belushi (May 8, 2008)

Okay, did you do any of your work with someone else or did any of the other students read your essay before you submitted it? it may be that someones cribbed from you and they've received two essays suspiciously similar?


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## Belushi (May 8, 2008)

baldrick said:


> i reiterate that you should go immediately to the union and/or your tutor, explain the situation and ask their advice.



Yup, thats a must.


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## cesare (May 8, 2008)

baldrick said:


> no, i think they're just making absolutely sure that you know what could happen.



Maybe. But you wouldn't do it for an employment conduct issue until the decision had been made. Perhaps it's different in student-land.


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## Fruitloop (May 8, 2008)

It's very weird as an undergrad (I'm assuming, apols if not) since you aren't really in a position (and don't really have the opportunity) to do any really original scholarship. So you're always doing an original-ish presentation of pre-existing material - how they decide what is and isn't plagiarised has always puzzled me.


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## Roadkill (May 8, 2008)

cesare said:


> They run some sort of software programme for spotting c&ps nowadays don't they? Or was it a complaint?
> 
> Seems odd to mention the appeal before the decision, looks pre-decided.



AFAIK it's a pretty standard form.  As baldrick says, they're just letting him know the possible outcomes, and probably underlining how seriously they're treating it as well.  

There is software for spotting plagiarism, but as far as I'm aware, most lecturers just use google to search out sentences and phrases that they're suspicious about.  It's surprising how careless some people are.  I knew one kid who C&P'd most of the introduction to a book and tried to pass it off as his own essay.  He can't have been the sharpest tool in the box: it was the course tutor's book!  

@ Dillinger, get some advice quickly.  Go to the independent advice place that VP mentions, and try to get hold of your tutor as well.


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## aqua (May 8, 2008)

go to speak to your students' union people but tbh you should be alright. It could have been picked up a couple of ways, either the person marking it suspects plagarism or a piece of software picked it up. The meeting won't be to discipline you atm, it'll be a discussion about the work.

Don't worry about the mentioning of the appeal, they have to tell you what the possible next steps are thats all 

go speak to someone and go ready in the meeting to discuss your work with them


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## Fruitloop (May 8, 2008)

I know someone who submitted a music prof's composition backwards as his own work and got away with it.


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## Belushi (May 8, 2008)

Fruitloop said:


> It's very weird as an undergrad (I'm assuming, apols if not) since you aren't really in a position (and don't really have the opportunity) to do any really original scholarship. So you're always doing an original-ish presentation of pre-existing material - how they decide what is and isn't plagiarised has always puzzled me.



It used to worry me when I was an undergrad, I just used to reference *everything*.

I found a folder with some of my old Uni essays recently (I graduated in 98) cant believe I was ever that clever or fluent!


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## sojourner (May 8, 2008)

All good advice already been given.

Good luck with it chuck


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Okay, did you do any of your work with someone else or did any of the other students read your essay before you submitted it? it may be that someones cribbed from you and they've received two essays suspiciously similar?



Nope. Dont know anybody in that class and work entirely on my own.



Fruitloop said:


> It's very weird as an undergrad (I'm assuming, apols if not) since you aren't really in a position (and don't really have the opportunity) to do any really original scholarship. So you're always doing an original-ish presentation of pre-existing material - how they decide what is and isn't plagiarised has always puzzled me.




That is what is puzzling me as well. I am thinking over my essay wondering what was wrong. It is pretty much the same as every other essay I have done, and I have never had problems before and got alright marks. 

And I always clearly mark out which are my own ideas and the quotes - even if they are sometimes a bit long.

I am more furious now than shocked. I thought all my degree was over and I could just relax. FFS


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## frogwoman (May 8, 2008)

fuck  sorry to hear this mate. hope u get it sorted soon. twats! x


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## quimcunx (May 8, 2008)

Submit this thread as evidence that you would be rubbish at plagiarism,  you haven't spelt it right despite it being right there in the letter!   


good luck.


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## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2008)

Can't offer any advice but just wanted to say hope it gets sorted out okay. Poor Dill  .Try not to worry too much about it - you know it isn't true, just try to get together all the evidence you can to prove this. Good luck x


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## innit (May 8, 2008)

Maybe it will make more sense once you've heard why they are suspicious, it could be a simple co-incidence that someone has written a similar essay.  It must be stressful though not knowing what the problem is 

ETA also could be worth checking their policy on quotations and referencing before the meeting just to check you did it by the book.  Do they have a limit as to the length of quotations? (can't see what the point would be if you have referenced it correctly but even still).  It looks good if you know the policy.


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## Sweet FA (May 8, 2008)

'plag*ia*rism'


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## Chairman Meow (May 8, 2008)

Sweet FA said:


> 'plag*ia*rism'




Yes.


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## Looby (May 8, 2008)

Sorry if this has been covered (I couldn't see it) but when are they going to tell you/show you what they think you have plagiarised? Until then surely you can't prepare a statement in your defense.


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

Sweet FA said:


> 'plag*ia*rism'



I was blinded by shock and rage.


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

sparklefish said:


> Sorry if this has been covered (I couldn't see it) but when are they going to tell you/show you what they think you have plagiarised? Until then surely you can't prepare a statement in your defense.



I got an email, and am recieving the same letter in the post, with all the evidence attached.


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## clandestino (May 8, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> I have just been accused of it
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Surely you can't respond to this unless you know the details of the allegation. Innit's right - you need to read up on policy, and then get them to detail exactly what they think was plagiarised. It all seems rather vague. Like being served with a court summons which says "You've stolen something..." but nothing else. Read up on policy then get some advice.

eta: i see you've just answered this.


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## onemonkey (May 8, 2008)

in the uk* I think there are two types of plagiarism case.. the obvious copying and pasting by stupid students and essays so good that the lecturers can't believe they were written by their students. so i think you should be flattered that they are checking up on your fine work 



*in the states there is also the problem with commercialized cheating, essays purchased online or written to order.


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

onemonkey said:


> in the uk* I think there are two types of plagiarism case.. the obvious copying and pasting by stupid students and essays so good that the lecturers can't believe they were written by their students. so i think you should be flattered that they are checking up on your fine work
> 
> 
> 
> *in the states there is also the problem with commercialized cheating, essays purchased online or written to order.



I have to admit, it was not a brilliant essay, really. But I did not copy and paste anything either, and it was all clearly referenced as much as it possibly could be.


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

> Appeals can only be made on the following grounds:
> 
> (i) any procedural irregularity prior to or in the conduct of the Panel
> meeting;
> ...



It is this bit that worries me.

I have no idea of a 'procedual irregularity' I could accuse the panel of, and I cant think of any 'extenuating circumstances' or 'new evidence' to prove my case. 

I have no idea what I am supposed to say.


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## innit (May 8, 2008)

Don't worry about that yet - you only need to worry about grounds for an appeal if the panel decides they do think your work was plagiarised.  You don't even know what the issue is yet, don't get ahead of yourself


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## clandestino (May 8, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> It is this bit that worries me.
> 
> I have no idea of a 'procedual irregularity' I could accuse the panel of, and I cant think of any 'extenuating circumstances' or 'new evidence' to prove my case.
> 
> I have no idea what I am supposed to say.



Yes, but that's if you want to appeal after being found guilty at the hearing. As you haven't copied anything, you should be able to clear everything up at the meeting. 

You have to wait and see what they accuse you of in the letter.


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

innit said:


> Don't worry about that yet - you only need to worry about grounds for an appeal if the panel decides they do think your work was plagiarised.  You don't even know what the issue is yet, don't get ahead of yourself



Well, I am just spending the rest of the day relaxing, as I was going too anyway. 

I am pretty confident that I have done nothing wrong.

But, you know, still, I dont need this! I thought I was finished.

 etc!


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## jæd (May 8, 2008)

Do you have notes, first drafts that you can show them...? Ie, to show how you formed your ideas, arguments, etc...?


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

jæd said:


> Do you have notes, first drafts that you can show them...? Ie, to show how you formed your ideas, arguments, etc...?



Hmm. 

I maybe have a plan, somewhere. I just kept working on my draft until it was the one I handed in....


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## jæd (May 8, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> Hmm.
> 
> I maybe have a plan, somewhere. I just kept working on my draft until it was the one I handed in....



Is word processed, or written by hand...? There should be a "history" for the former...?


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

Just on a piece of paper I am afraid - if I can even find it. I threw a lot of stuff out after my last exam. 

My essay was word processed.


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## jæd (May 8, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> Just on a piece of paper I am afraid - if I can even find it. I threw a lot of stuff out after my last exam.
> 
> My essay was word processed.



If it is written in Word there should be a revision history/changes feature that you could use to show how you wrote it... You could also use "undo" to do the same thing (depends on which version though)


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

jæd said:


> If it is written in Word there should be a revision history/changes feature that you could use to show how you wrote it...



Cheers. I will check that out.


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## DotCommunist (May 8, 2008)

was the complaint flagged by an actual reading or by running the piece through anti-plagiarism software?


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> was the complaint flagged by an actual reading or by running the piece through anti-plagiarism software?



No idea, atm.


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## gabi (May 8, 2008)

jæd said:


> If it is written in Word there should be a revision history/changes feature that you could use to show how you wrote it... You could also use "undo" to do the same thing (depends on which version though)



Thatll only work if he had 'track changes' on while writing it i think


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## DotCommunist (May 8, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> No idea, atm.



The software is capable of false positives just as the human is. I'd want to know how it was flagged straight away in the meeting.


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## Dillinger4 (May 8, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> The software is capable of false positives just as the human is. I'd want to know how it was flagged straight away in the meeting.



I will put that in my notes.


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## Roadkill (May 8, 2008)

Do try and find out how they decided your work was plagiarised.  It seems they've made a mistake, and if you've some idea of how it might have come about you're in a better position to defend yourself.

Thing is, though, that plagiarism can mean anything from an accidentally unsourced point or piece of evidence, to ripping off an entire essay.  There are degrees of seriousness, and it may well be that this is nothing much to worry about.  

You might, for instance, have a made a point that you think is original but which someone has previously published.  As long as you can plausibly say that you were unaware of it, you've done nothing culpable and they shouldn't penalise you for it.

And look on the bright side.  A mate of mine who was having a bad time for personal reasons did plagiarise large parts of an essay from the internet.  He was caught and hauled up before precisely the sort of disciplinary hearing you're facing.  He told them the truth.  They made him re-do the essay and capped the mark at 40 (the pass mark), but there was no suggestion he'd be kicked out, or anything of the sort.

Plagiarism's a serious problem these days and universities - rightly - are toughening up on it.  Occasionally, that means people end up being accused of plagiarism for small errors or omissions of referencing that a few years ago would have passed without much comment.  But the people overseeing plagiarism proceedings aren't out to wreck people's degrees, and unless they're certain you've quite deliberately tried to pass off someone else's work as your own they're very unlikely to impose any penalty on you.


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## Sweet FA (May 8, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> I was blinded by shock and rage.


Yeh, sorry; not very helpful.

Like others have said, seems a bit fucked that you don't know what they're accusing you of plagiarising. All you can do is take as many notes, refs etc that you've still got & see what they have to say. If you definitely didn't do it, you should be OK. Good luck.


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## Kuso (May 9, 2008)

Go see someone at the Student's Union.  I'm thinking education officer.  You said yourself that you don't know what to say in your defense but these people will- it's what they do.  they'll also be able to let you know what the meeting's going to be like and stuff like that and help you present a clear case in your defense.  I'd recommend preparing a letter and sending it to the panel before you go the meeting so they can review your side of things first.  It means that you can say everything you want to say and not forget stuff on the day etc and lets you be better prepared.  

these officers in the SU are usually pretty dead on and its good to have the moral support even- i can be pretty daunting sitting in front of a panel of professors etc


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## Dillinger4 (May 9, 2008)

Got my evidence through the post. I am very much guilty, and it was a shit essay. I am probably guilty of it in my other essay on that module as well. 

Been to the independent advice unit - the best I can hope for is a zero for that module. Just got to write a statement and be all apologetic and shit. 

*sigh*


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## keithy (May 9, 2008)

it's easy to do


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> Got my evidence through the post. I am very much guilty, and it was a shit essay. I am probably guilty of it in my other essay on that module as well.
> 
> Been to the independent advice unit - the best I can hope for is a zero for that module. Just got to write a statement and be all apologetic and shit.
> 
> *sigh*



Eh?  I thought you had referenced everything??


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## Dandred (May 9, 2008)

What did they get you for then?


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## Lo Siento. (May 9, 2008)

how do you plagiarise and forget? then come on all outraged. Twat.


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> how do you plagiarise and forget? then come on all outraged. Twat.



Uncalled for


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## Vintage Paw (May 9, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> Got my evidence through the post. I am very much guilty, and it was a shit essay. I am probably guilty of it in my other essay on that module as well.
> 
> Been to the independent advice unit - the best I can hope for is a zero for that module. Just got to write a statement and be all apologetic and shit.
> 
> *sigh*



Dude, I hope you're writing a pm to me as we speak ....

*taps foot impatiently*

(((((dilli)))))


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## Vintage Paw (May 9, 2008)

sojourner said:


> Uncalled for




Agreed.

When you know all the evidence, then you can make twattish statements like that.


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## baldrick (May 9, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> Got my evidence through the post. I am very much guilty, and it was a shit essay. I am probably guilty of it in my other essay on that module as well.
> 
> Been to the independent advice unit - the best I can hope for is a zero for that module. Just got to write a statement and be all apologetic and shit.
> 
> *sigh*


oh god  

i am so sorry to hear that.  what did you do and what's the implication for your degree?


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## Lo Siento. (May 9, 2008)

sojourner said:


> Uncalled for



because stoods are so overworked there's a justification for cheating?

Let's all be sensitive to the person too lazy to do their own fucking work.


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## Vintage Paw (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> because stoods are so overworked there's a justification for cheating?



Do you know what was in his letter? 

No. You don't. So stop with the suppositions of evilness on a grand scale and stop being an idiot. Not nice, not fair, and you won't get far doing it.


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> because stoods are so overworked there's a justification for cheating?



No, because a) you don't know what happened yet so calling him a twat is a tad previous and judgemental, to say the least, and b) he's an intelligent committed student, with no reason to plagiarise at all - he's probably fucking mortified by this.  

I'd wager it was accidental


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## Chairman Meow (May 9, 2008)

How can you not know if you've plagiarised?


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## Vintage Paw (May 9, 2008)

sojourner said:


> No, because a) you don't know what happened yet so calling him a twat is a tad previous and judgemental, to say the least, and b) he's an intelligent committed student, with no reason to plagiarise at all - he's probably fucking mortified by this.
> 
> I'd wager it was accidental



Absolutely, to every single word of this.


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## Kidda (May 9, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> Got my evidence through the post. I am very much guilty, and it was a shit essay. I am probably guilty of it in my other essay on that module as well.
> 
> Been to the independent advice unit - the best I can hope for is a zero for that module. Just got to write a statement and be all apologetic and shit.
> 
> *sigh*





How?


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## baldrick (May 9, 2008)

Just ignore the twat


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## Vintage Paw (May 9, 2008)

Chairman Meow said:


> How can you not know if you've plagiarised?



Well he didn't, so I suppose it's perfectly possible.


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

Chairman Meow said:


> How can you not know if you've plagiarised?



Missing off a reference?  Repeating certain phrases that you've unconsciously memorised?

i'm usually completely down on plagiarists, but I'm convinced that Dillinger is not the type of person to do it deliberately


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## Lo Siento. (May 9, 2008)

sojourner said:


> No, because a) you don't know what happened yet so calling him a twat is a tad previous and judgemental, to say the least, and b) he's an intelligent committed student, with no reason to plagiarise at all - he's probably fucking mortified by this.
> 
> I'd wager it was accidental



a) possibly, but he just admitted he did it b) he's obviously not, otherwise he wouldn't need to cheat. c) no-one 'accidentally' plagiarises, you cheat, end of.


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## Vintage Paw (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> a) possibly, but he just admitted he did it b) he's obviously not, otherwise he wouldn't need to cheat. c) no-one 'accidentally' plagiarises, you cheat, end of.



fuck off


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> a) possibly, but he just admitted he did it b) he's obviously not, otherwise he wouldn't need to cheat. c) no-one 'accidentally' plagiarises, you cheat, end of.



a) he didn't have to - the fact that he has, given his anger at the start of the thread, conveys his bewilderment

b) I've met and talked to the guy, I know he is

c) It's entirely possible.  But let's see what he has to say first, eh?


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## baldrick (May 9, 2008)

sojourner said:


> i'm usually completely down on plagiarists, but I'm convinced that Dillinger is not the type of person to do it deliberately


me too 

Dilli - if you can bear it, can you let us know what happened? Am also studying atm and want to be sure that any _slapdash_ essays aren't gonna get me in trouble too.

How long ago did you submit the assignments?


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## Lo Siento. (May 9, 2008)

sojourner said:


> a) he didn't have to - the fact that he has, given his anger at the start of the thread, conveys his bewilderment
> 
> b) I've met and talked to the guy, I know he is
> 
> c) It's entirely possible.  But let's see what he has to say first, eh?



b) not according to the ze evidence!

c) never come across anyone accidentally plagiarising. Lots of cheats in denial. But no accidents. How do you reproduce significant amounts of someone else's work without noticing?


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## Vintage Paw (May 9, 2008)

I was sat next to him yesterday when he received the email he posted in the OP. I can tell you very clearly, he had absolutely no idea what the plagiarism he was accused of might entail. He was shocked beyond belief. 

So yeah, I'd say it is definitely possible for someone to not know they plagiarised. Because he didn't. 

He would _never_ do something like that knowingly.


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> b) not according to the ze evidence!
> 
> c) never come across anyone accidentally plagiarising. Lots of cheats in denial. But no accidents. How do you reproduce significant amounts of someone else's work without noticing?



Like I said, you don't know what's happened yet


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## Lo Siento. (May 9, 2008)

awwwwww, poor thing!


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## Vintage Paw (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> awwwwww, poor thing!



I've said it before, and I'll say it again, fuck off.


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## baldrick (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento said:
			
		

> awwwwww, poor thing!


Your compassion positively _oozes _from your posts.

Fuckwit.


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## Lo Siento. (May 9, 2008)

sojourner said:


> Like I said, you don't know what's happened yet



well, let's accept the absolute best scenario. So, he's just so lazy and his attitude to his work is so poor, that he absent-mindedly passed off someone's work as he own (or maybe, reproduced his own work for a 2nd time, whatever), failed to check it, then just sort of forgot it.

For what possible reason would he deserve sympathy?


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## marshall (May 9, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> I've said it before, and I'll say it again, fuck off.



yes, bit too much gloating from lo siento (de nada), but the OP did say he was 'very much guilty'...so...


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

I think I'm being very well behaved by not unleashing my own torrent of swearing, but I'm thinking Lo Siento is just trolling so therefore not worthy of a good tongue lashing


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> well, let's accept the absolute best scenario. So, he's just so lazy and his attitude to his work is so poor, that he absent-mindedly passed off someone's work as he own (or maybe, reproduced his own work for a 2nd time, whatever), failed to check it, then just sort of forgot it.
> 
> For what possible reason would he deserve sympathy?



Not gonna bother repeating myself


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## gabi (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> For what possible reason would he deserve sympathy?



If thats the case then if not sympathy then he certainly doesn't deserve your fucking gloating. What an absolute arsehole.


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## Lo Siento. (May 9, 2008)

making excuses isn't gonna help him, you know.


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## Vintage Paw (May 9, 2008)

sojourner said:


> I think I'm being very well behaved by not unleashing my own torrent of swearing, but I'm thinking Lo Siento is just trolling so therefore not worthy of a good tongue lashing



I've decided to step back now. S/he's doing it to be a prick and get attention. On this thread from now on all I do is offer my complete and total support to Dillinger4.


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> S/he's doing it to be a prick and get attention. On this thread from now on all I do is offer my complete and total support to Dillinger4.



Yep, on both counts


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## Melinda (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> well, let's accept the absolute best scenario. So, he's just so lazy and his attitude to his work is so poor, that he absent-mindedly passed off someone's work as he own (or maybe, reproduced his own work for a 2nd time, whatever), failed to check it, then just sort of forgot it.
> 
> For what possible reason would he deserve sympathy?


*POINTS @ THE BORED TROLL *


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## Kidda (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> well, let's accept the absolute best scenario. So, he's just so lazy and his attitude to his work is so poor, that he absent-mindedly passed off someone's work as he own (or maybe, reproduced his own work for a 2nd time, whatever), failed to check it, then just sort of forgot it.
> 
> For what possible reason would he deserve sympathy?



would you like a cuddle? You sound like you could possibly need one.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 9, 2008)

Kidda said:


> would you like a cuddle? You sound like you could possibly need one.



perhaps you should save them for people who seem to have been caught bang to rights


----------



## Kidda (May 9, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> perhaps you should save them for people who seem to have been caught bang to rights



Im in awe  

How is it that you seem to know the whole situation when none of us do and we've all read the same thread

gwan just a little cuddle youknow u wanna


----------



## innit (May 9, 2008)

sojourner said:


> Missing off a reference?  Repeating certain phrases that you've unconsciously memorised?



It would be so easy to do.  I'm amazed I never got called on it cos I wrote all my essays in such a mad panic, I'm sure I must have misreference something, or not re-worded bits of textbooks properly, at some point.



Vintage Paw said:


> On this thread from now on all I do is offer my complete and total support to Dillinger4.



Me too.


----------



## resonant (May 9, 2008)

From UCL Website:


What is plagiarism?
Plagiarism is defined as the presentation of another person's thoughts or words or artifacts or software as though they were a student's own. Any quotation from the published or unpublished works of other persons must, therefore, be clearly identified as such by being placed inside quotation marks, and students should identify their sources as accurately and fully as possible. A series of short quotations from several different sources, if not clearly identified as such, constitutes plagiarism just as much as does a single unacknowledged long quotation from a single source. Equally, if a student summarises another person's ideas, judgements, figures, software or diagrams, a reference to that person in the text must be made and the work referred to must be included in the bibliography.​http://www.ucl.ac.uk/current-students/study/plagiarism/#whatis


It certainly looks like it could be fairly easy to fall foul of this.


----------



## marty21 (May 9, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Must be a bigger problem in these days of the omnipresent interweb than when I was at Uni.



same here - we had to write our essays by hand with a pen - we didn't even have computers, a few people had typewriters though


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

innit said:


> It would be so easy to do.



It can be - I've caught myself during proofreading having done that very same thing

Hope you're okay Dill


----------



## Roadkill (May 9, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> Got my evidence through the post. I am very much guilty, and it was a shit essay. I am probably guilty of it in my other essay on that module as well.
> 
> Been to the independent advice unit - the best I can hope for is a zero for that module. Just got to write a statement and be all apologetic and shit.
> 
> *sigh*



How come...?


----------



## moonsi til (May 9, 2008)

I'm really sorry it has worked out this way for you. I read this thread last night and straight away began to panic about my own work. I reference everything but there have been times when I don't feel like I have allowed enough time for original ideas to develop and feel that you can easily fall foul to plaigiarism.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (May 9, 2008)

Sweet FA said:


> 'plag*ia*rism'


Title changed now.


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## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Title changed now.



thank god for that

the pedant in me was screaming


----------



## cesare (May 9, 2008)

resonant said:


> From UCL Website:
> 
> 
> What is plagiarism?
> ...



That's a really useful post resonant - I had no idea how wide the definition of plagiarism is. As you say, looks as though it's fairly easy to fall foul of.

Dill, your entire reaction to this has come across as honest and open. Whatever's happened it's clearly unintentional. It might be helpful for other studes to know what went wrong - if you don't mind posting it.

I don't know much about academia and the ways of higher education and that, but chances are (as in other walks of life) that those making a decision about what's happened here value honesty and openness. 

Good luck dude, and respect for just fucking posting it as it unfolded.

-----------------------

Lo Siento - go spin on it eh


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 9, 2008)

ah, ok, maybe he's just too stupid to avoid plagiarism then. Fair do's.


----------



## sojourner (May 9, 2008)

cesare said:


> That's a really useful post resonant - I had no idea how wide the definition of plagiarism is. As you say, looks as though it's fairly easy to fall foul of.
> 
> Dill, your entire reaction to this has come across as honest and open. Whatever's happened it's clearly unintentional. It might be helpful for other studes to know what went wrong - if you don't mind posting it.
> 
> ...



great post


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## frogwoman (May 10, 2008)

(((((dillinger))))) 



lo siento - fuck off !!


----------



## scumbalina (May 10, 2008)

Gutting  Looks like it could be all to easy to do by mistake, poor you, you were so sure you hadn't. Is there any chance they'll let you do it again if it's obviously was a genuine mistake, or am I being totally naive about how these things work?

lo siento, you're a nasty piece of work


----------



## Melinda (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> ah, ok, maybe he's just too stupid to avoid plagiarism then. Fair do's.


You have come onto a thread where someone is detailing a serious issue which could affect their degree, and you care sooo much that you've posted on it repeatedly. 

Considering that in 2 years, you have barely got your feet wet here, what is it about this particular thread that has stirred you? 

9 whole posts on this thread, yet you've contributed nothing but abuse-  no advice, nothing of any use or value at all. 

It's a pathetic shitty troll- it and marks you out as almost pitiable.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

christ what's wrong with you people. If you think this qualifies for a 'nasty piece of work', then you evidently don't know any genuinely nasty people. "Affect your degree" don't be such fucking precious, it's a degree, it's not the end of the world, plenty of people fail degrees every year, no one died, just somebody engaged in an entirely self-inflicted admitted injury upon themselves and it might fuck a module up for them.

Cry me a river.

and you know what. Being a student is the easiest thing in the world. Unless you're at Oxbridge then the workload is laughable. If you work even say slightly hard then you'll finish up far ahead of the curve. I've had friends go through massive traumas, complete their degrees and still I've never met anyone who 'accidentally plagiarised', 99.99% of students manage to give enough care and attention to their work to avoid it. Don't understand why people think they deserve a pass for breaking the perfectly transparent rules.


----------



## mrs quoad (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> christ what's wrong with you people. If you think this qualifies for a 'nasty piece of work', then you evidently don't know any genuinely nasty people. "Affect your degree" don't be such fucking precious, it's a degree, it's not the end of the world, plenty of people fail degrees every year, no one died, just somebody engaged in an entirely self-inflicted admitted injury upon themselves and it might fuck a module up for them.
> 
> Cry me a river.



Whilst all this may be statistically correct, it does not detract from the human pain and misery endured in every single instance.

It's also - as I'm sure you're aware - got absolutely nothing to do with your entirely personal choice to be wholly unnecessarily vicious, or to write off other's pain in a facetious, trivial, scathing and dehumanising manner 

THAT has nothing whatsoever to do with the OP, and everything to do with your choices. Likewise - others have chosen to be compassionate and understanding. 

Your choices are your choices; your arrogance - bless - reminds me a lot of myself before sobering up. Which is always - frankly - useful. If rarely pleasant. So - hey - thanks for that


----------



## Chairman Meow (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> christ what's wrong with you people. If you think this qualifies for a 'nasty piece of work', then you evidently don't know any genuinely nasty people. "Affect your degree" don't be such fucking precious, it's a degree, it's not the end of the world, plenty of people fail degrees every year, no one died, just somebody engaged in an entirely self-inflicted admitted injury upon themselves and it might fuck a module up for them.
> 
> Cry me a river.



Nasty little shit, aren't you?

I don't have a huge amount of sympathy either, although the definition of plagiarism appears to have broadened somewhat from my student days (when it had to contain an element of premeditation IIRC). However, your attitude is pretty pathetic.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

if this qualifies as "human pain and misery", then none of yours know you're born.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

sense of perspective, everybody


----------



## ymu (May 10, 2008)

Plagiarism is a really tricky concept at undergraduate level, IMO. Yes, there's the obvious blatant stuff, but the universities response to it in recent years threatens to tarnish students who are simply going through a valid learning process.

When you start a subject, _everything you write is plagiarism_. You have no original ideas about the topics, you have to regurgitate those of others. That gets very very hard to reference, because it's all jumbled up. You may formulate an argument originally stated by one authority, and then back it up with an argument formulated by another; it's all plagiarised, but it's what you're supposed to be doing. It takes time for information to become familiar enough that you can start to formulate your own ideas and inject some true originality; it's not expected until Masters level, and not required until a PhD.

If Dill genuinely couldn't think what he'd done wrong, and is now shocked to discover he's "guilty", it has to be something like this. And it's not plagiarism, he's just fallen victim to a new administrative obsession in academia.


----------



## _angel_ (May 10, 2008)

Chairman Meow said:


> I don't have a huge amount of sympathy either, *although the definition of plagiarism appears to have broadened somewhat from my student days *(when it had to contain an element of premeditation IIRC). .




It does doesn't it? I can see why they are so worried about it when there are people out there too lazy to do their own work and stupid enough to cut and paste someone else's work, but the definition seems to have broadened out to mean any tiny slip up.

They could probably cut the students some slack when it's just a mistake they've made.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 10, 2008)

cesare said:


> That's a really useful post resonant - I had no idea how wide the definition of plagiarism is. As you say, looks as though it's fairly easy to fall foul of.
> 
> Dill, your entire reaction to this has come across as honest and open. Whatever's happened it's clearly unintentional. It might be helpful for other studes to know what went wrong - if you don't mind posting it.
> 
> ...



I agree with this post. I know nothing about academia either or the way such things work but it seems that Dill - who has consistently come across as open and honest - has inadvertantly done something which sounds as if it may be easy for students to fall into.

Dill - I hope you are not feeling too bad, though I imagine that may be a massive understatement on my part . And I hope you can sort things out. Let us know how you get on. Thinking of you .

Lo Siento - in the grand scheme of things a degree may not seem much to you but when you have worked hard on something, as Dill has, when something has consumed your time for weeks or longer, it is very important. I remember the 'stress' of 'A' levels and how I felt then. Yes with over 20 years of hindsight I now have a very different perspective on that. But at the time it felt like that those exams were the 'be all and end all' of my life. Can you not remember/imagine a situation when you have felt the same and which turns out to be, in the 'grand scheme of things', a blip? Hindsight may allow us to judge things differntly but it does not lessen the feelings you have at that time. Those feelings are absolutly genuine and effectively telling someone who is going through that, who is genuinely upset, "what are you moaning about, worse things happen" is neither helpful, kind nor sympathetic. Can you not see that?


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Lo Siento - in the grand scheme of things a degree may not seem much to you but when you have worked hard on something, as Dill has, when something has consumed your time for weeks or longer, it is very important. I remember the 'stress' of 'A' levels and how I felt then. Yes with over 20 years of hindsight I now have a very different perspective on that. But at the time it felt like that those exams were the 'be all and end all' of my life. Can you not remember/imagine a situation when you have felt the same and which turns out to be, in the 'grand scheme of things', a blip? Hindsight may allow us to judge things differntly but it does not lessen the feelings you have at that time. Those feelings are absolutly genuine and effectively telling someone who is going through that, who is genuinely upset, "what are you moaning about, worse things happen" is neither helpful, kind nor sympathetic. Can you not see that?



well do you think it helps people get a sense of perspective by acting like they've lost a relative? All the sympathy might makes youse all feel better about yourself and how compassionate you are, but it doesn't help people (a) take responsibility, rather than making excuses (b) realise this stuff isn't really a big deal, and will be completely insignificant in the course of their life (tough to realise when you're young). The abuse I've got for calling him a twat, for well, doing something a bit twatty, just reaffirms that. Still, I'll live


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> well do you think it helps people get a sense of perspective by acting like they've lost a relative? All the sympathy might makes youse all feel better about yourself and how compassionate you are, but it doesn't help people (a) take responsibility, rather than making excuses (b) realise this stuff isn't really a big deal, and will be completely insignificant in the course of their life (tough to realise when you're young). The abuse I've got for calling him a twat, for well, doing something a bit twatty, just reaffirms that. Still, I'll live



From what I've read Dill is taking responsibility rather than making excuses. 

And I didn't sympathise with him in order to make myself feel better - something which I am also sure is true of everyone who has offered help or sympathy - but because he was obviously worried, upset and had reached out to people on here. I reacted to that.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> And I didn't sympathise with him in order to make myself feel better - something which I am also sure is true of everyone who has offered help or sympathy - but because he was obviously worried, upset and had reached out to people on here. I reacted to that.



But it _did_ make you feel better about yourself, didn't it?


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> well do you think it helps people get a sense of perspective by acting like they've lost a relative? All the sympathy might makes youse all feel better about yourself and how compassionate you are, but it doesn't help people *(a) take responsibility, rather than making excuses (b) realise this stuff isn't really a big deal, and will be completely insignificant in the course of their life (tough to realise when you're young).* The abuse I've got for calling him a twat, for well, doing something a bit twatty, just reaffirms that. Still, I'll live



I wasn't going to post on this thread but nowhere have I made excuses. I take full responsibility for what I have done. I have made a mistake and I have to take responsibility for it. I started this thread not knowing the evidence against me but now that I do, I can see that. But it *is *a mistake, albeit one I should have noticed when I checked through my essay. 

I do not think it is your place to make people take responsibility, and, to be honest, if I am going to take lessons off anybody, your conduct on this thread does not exactly recommend you.

But you are right, in the grand scheme of things, it is not a big deal. I will get by whatever happens. But this is somewhat of a blow to me, as I generally take quite a pride in my academic work.


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> But it _did_ make you feel better about yourself, didn't it?



I am sure all your posts make _you _feel rather splendid as well.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 10, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> I wasn't going to post on this thread but nowhere have I made excuses. I take full responsibility for what I have done. I have made a mistake and I have to take responsibility for it. I started this thread not knowing the evidence against me but now that I do, I can see that. But it *is *a mistake, albeit one I should have noticed when I checked through my essay.
> 
> I do not think it is your place to make people take responsibility, and, to be honest, if I am going to take lessons off anybody, your conduct on this thread does not exactly recommend you.
> 
> But you are right, in the grand scheme of things, it is not a big deal. I will get by whatever happens. But this is somewhat of a blow to me, as I generally take quite a pride in my academic work.





I hope you're feeling ok this morning chicken. I've been thinking about you.

(((dill)))


----------



## Thora (May 10, 2008)

So what was the mistake, something incorrectly referenced?  I've just submitted my first semester coursework and am really paranoid about this   Hopefully the uni will take into account that it's my first year though.


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 10, 2008)

Thora said:


> So what was the mistake, something incorrectly referenced?  I've just submitted my first semester coursework and am really paranoid about this   Hopefully the uni will take into account that it's my first year though.



A bit more than that 



But as some others have pointed out, you should be alright in your first year and stuff. Its all about getting into good academic practice, really.


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 10, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> I hope you're feeling ok this morning chicken. I've been thinking about you.
> 
> (((dill)))



I am as good as I can be! Its my sisters birthday so I am going to a BBQ. I dont want to tell her about any of this because its her birthday, but luckily and am fairly misanthropic at the best of times so nobody will know any different.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 10, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> I am as good as I can be! Its my sisters birthday so I am going to a BBQ. I dont want to tell her about any of this because its her birthday, but luckily and am fairly misanthropic at the best of times so nobody will know any different.



Have a nice time, drink lots of green drinks and try not to think of the plague of ants you'll be returning back to


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## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> I do not think it is your place to make people take responsibility, and, to be honest, if I am going to take lessons off anybody, your conduct on this thread does not exactly recommend you.



What, calling you a stupid twat? Are you denying that your actions were (a) stupid (b) a bit twatty?


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> What, calling you a stupid twat? Are you denying that your actions were (a) stupid (b) a bit twatty?



You are so educational. I am glad you benevolently decided to use your self importance to teach me all the errors of my ways.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> You are so educational. I am glad you benevolently decided to use your self importance to teach me all the errors of my ways.



This was wittier before the edit. No need to overdo it


----------



## scumbalina (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento, let it go, you're being right odd


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> This was wittier before the edit. No need to overdo it



heh.



Probably best taking your own advice here as well.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

scumbalina said:


> Lo Siento, let it go, you're being right odd


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> heh.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably best taking your own advice here as well.



I <3 digging.


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 10, 2008)

scumbalina said:


> Lo Siento, let it go, you're being right odd



I don't mind myself. He is just making himself feel good. His bitterness is pretty funny as well.


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> I <3 digging.



I don't get it.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 10, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> I don't mind myself. He is just making himself feel good. His bitterness is pretty funny as well.



everyone's a winner.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> But it _did_ make you feel better about yourself, didn't it?



Not really no. And ceratinly not today. I wish things were that simple. But I hope it made Dill feel a bit better about himself .


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 10, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> Cry me a river.


I'd far rather piss in your porridge, you charmless nerk.


----------



## ymu (May 11, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> I don't get it.


Roughly translated, it means "I'm a bit sad and don't get enough attention IRL".


----------



## mhendo (May 12, 2008)

Lo Siento. said:


> c) no-one 'accidentally' plagiarises, you cheat, end of.


I teach history to undergraduates here in the United States, and i can confidently state that you are 100 percent wrong about this.

It is entirely possible to accidentally plagiarize, either because you haven't paid close enough attention when using your notes to construct your essay, or because you haven't been taught well enough exactly where to draw the line in using (and citing) the work of others.

Let me be quite clear about one thing: i'm not excusing plagiarism. When someone plagiarizes in my class, and is clearly taking the piss and trying to get away with not doing the work, i take great pleasure in placing an "F" in his or her grade box. I've actually spent most of today grading the final papers for my American Intellectual History class, and have busted a student whose paper consisted of virtually nothing but cut-and-pasted paragraphs straight from a book. He wrote a paper on slavery, and virtually his whole paper was lifted, word for word, from _The White Man's Burden: Historical Origins of Racism in the United States_, by Winthrop Jordan. There is no grey line here, and he will fail the course.

But i have had other students who have officially committed plagiarism, but who clearly did so accidentally, or were not exactly clear on what constitutes acceptable paraphrasing, citation form, etc., etc. Also, there are cases where the plagiarism makes up the bulk of the paper (in terms of volume and/or in terms of analytical weight), while in other cases it is merely incidental, and doesn't actually detract from the student's own argument. 

In all these cases, teachers need to weigh the type of plagiarism, the amount, the weight in the argument, and the relative seriousness of the offence, and make an appropriate judgement. In cases where it's clear that the plagiarism was minor or inadvertent or merely misguided notions about scholarly form, it always seems to me that it's more constructive to explain to the student what he or she did wrong, and to give them an opportunity to rewrite the paper properly. We are, after all, being paid to teach these people, and there are cases that are borderline enough that a pinch of correction is better than a fistful of smackdown.

It's also become clear to me that, much as i would like to think that my students already know exactly what plagiarism is, and how to avoid it, many of them only really have a vague idea of what constitutes proper scholarly standards. For this reason, i take it upon myself to explain to them what plagiarism is, when they need quotation marks, when they need footnotes, and all the other little things that can trip up even honest students.

Another reason that i know that honest people can plagiarize inadvertently is that i've almost done it myself. I remember proof-reading a paper i wrote for my Masters, and becoming suspicious about one particular paragraph. I went to my notes, and found the paragraph there, but it was not clear from the notes whether the wording was my own, or whether i had copied them verbatim from the source. So then i went back to the book itself, located the appropriate page, and found that i had actually copied a paragraph directly from the book into my notes and had forgotten to use quotation marks. I kept the paragraph in my paper, but placed quotation marks around it and added an appropriate footnotes. 

I had no intent to plagiarize, but a simple oversight of forgetting to place the section in quotation marks almost proved my undoing. The fact is, especially when working on big projects, we read so much that we sometimes forget whether the words in our notes are our own, or whether they come from our sources. Considerable vigilance is needed to avoid embarrassing and potentially career-ending mistakes.

I should also say that the students who elicit the most sympathy from me are those, like the OP of this thread, who accept that they've messed up, and are willing to face the consequences. In many cases, i think that sort of attitude is a good indication that they did, in fact, plagiarize inadvertently. If it's a borderline case of plagiarism, i'm much more willing to give a second chance (a rewrite, or something similar) to a student who admits to the error than to one who denies, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, that he or she did anything wrong. 

By the way, if anyone's interested, i place links to the following websites on my own class syllabus, so that students have some resources they can consult at their leisure:

Avoiding Plagiarism (Purdue University)

Citing Sources (Johns Hopkins University Library)

Citing Sources and Avoiding Plagiarism (Duke University)

How to Avoid Plagiarism (Northwestern University)

How to Avoid Plagiarism (University of California, Davis; PDF file)

Plagiarism: What It is and How to Recognize and Avoid It (Indiana University)

What is Plagiarism? (Georgetown University)

What is Plagiarism? (plagiarism.org)


----------



## mrs quoad (May 12, 2008)

mhendo said:


> a fistful of smackdown.



This may well become my new tagline


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 12, 2008)

mrs quoad said:


> This may well become my new tagline



That was my favourite part too 

mhendo - you win this thread


----------



## innit (May 12, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:


> You are so educational. I am glad you benevolently decided to use your self importance to teach me all the errors of my ways.



Glad to see you're keeping your chin up 

and well done for going to the independent advice place 

hope it doesn't affect your overall degree mark too much so that you can go back to enjoying your freedom


----------



## mhendo (May 12, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> mhendo - you win this thread


Thanks, although i think "Killed the thread stone dead" would be a more appropriate term.


----------



## equationgirl (May 12, 2008)

More like a definitive end to the argument, mhendo 

And yes, I'm rather keen on the phrase 'a fistful of smackdown' too.


----------



## Wilf (May 12, 2008)

mhendo said:


> I teach history to undergraduates here in the United States, and i can confidently state that you are 100 percent wrong about this.



Kind of.  Some people plagiarise because they just can't be arsed. In terms of the essays i see, some are so fucking idle as to cut and paste without even putting the pasted material into the same typeface as the rest of the work.   I've even seen stuff nicked of wikipedia with the links still left in.

Others plagiarise because they went through school and college patching together stuff from different sites - actually thinking that _is _an essay.

Still others really do forget where they got material from.

Others put long quotes in and then stick a reference at the end of the paragraph - but no "....."   Just don't know how to reference.

All kinds of reasons and motivations - the vast majority are never caught though, because of the amount of marking staff have and their unwillingness to initiate the full bureaucracy of a hearing.  The difference now though is  electronic submission, which matches the whole work to all kinds of databases.  They tend to produce a % match - indicating how much of the essay can be found elsewhere.


----------



## keithy (May 12, 2008)

I've been quite worried cos I finished my essay (all the referencing and bibliography bollocks) while completely bollocksed. I haven't even read the damn thing through. Howvere, I fgure that if there was something wrong they would have let me know by know. This thread has given me the willies


----------



## mhendo (May 13, 2008)

4thwrite said:


> Kind of.  Some people plagiarise because they just can't be arsed. In terms of the essays i see, some are so fucking idle as to cut and paste without even putting the pasted material into the same typeface as the rest of the work.   I've even seen stuff nicked of wikipedia with the links still left in.
> 
> Others plagiarise because they went through school and college patching together stuff from different sites - actually thinking that _is _an essay.
> 
> ...


Right.

All of which is why the assertion:





> no-one 'accidentally' plagiarises, you cheat, end of.


is 100 percent wrong. 

It's not 100 percent wrong because _every_ student does it accidentally; it's 100 percent wrong because of its totalizing nature and its unwilligness to account for the various types of plagiarism, and the various motivation or reasons for plagiarism.





4thwrite said:


> All kinds of reasons and motivations - the vast majority are never caught though, because of the amount of marking staff have and their unwillingness to initiate the full bureaucracy of a hearing.  The difference now though is  electronic submission, which matches the whole work to all kinds of databases.  They tend to produce a % match - indicating how much of the essay can be found elsewhere.


One way to make plagiarism easier to catch--at least at the college level--is to be creative about setting writing assignments. If you set the same type of assignment that a millions teachers before you have set, and simply ask students to rehash hackneyed old questions, you immediately make it easier for them to find places on the web where they can cut and paste.

If, on the other hand, you set very specific questions that relate directly to the material you have covered in class, and that ask students to think about that material in particular ways, it is often easier to spot a student who plagiarizes because it is more difficult for them to find a simple cut-and-paste answer to the question.

That's one reason i was able to catch the guy i mentioned in my earlier post. I set my class a choice of four essay questions for their final paper. Each question was based specifically on the readings we've done this semester, and each student was required to incorporate at least 3 of the primary sources readings into his or her argument. 

One reason that the person was so easy to catch is that his plagiarized sections covered material and people that we never covered in class. This is often a dead giveaway, especially in a paper that does not ask the students to do extra outside research. He also completely failed to answer any of the actual questions in his paper, but simply plagiarized sections giving an overview of the issue of slavery.

Also, i find that plenty of plagiarizers are not very good writers. It's usually a dead giveaway when their paper jumps back and forth between beautiful, complex prose and stilted, ungrammatical tosh. This is especially noticeable when they plagiarize from published books. Unfortunately, when they steal from Wikipedia or some other crappy online source, it's often harder to tell the difference in quality of writing.

As for the bureaucratic stuff, luckily at the places where i've been teaching, a hearing is not an automatic consequence of a plagiarism accusation. If i catch a student plagiarizing, and it's bad enough for an outright failure of the course, then i just fail him, and tell him why. I also tell the university, which keeps his name on file. If he is caught a second time, the college will then institute disciplinary procedures beyond simply failing the course, up to and including expulsion.

There are appeals processes for students who want to challenge my ruling, but if they don't appeal, my word on the issue is final. I don't have to justify my decision UNLESS the student chooses to take it further. And, because i make sure all my evidence is rock solid before failing someone for plagiarism, i've never had any of those decisions overturned. 

I know that some colleges and universities take a much more lenient approach, and that Department Heads, Deans, and other administrators sometimes put pressure on teachers to let the student off with a slap on the wrist. I think that sucks, and i'm glad i haven't had this happen to me yet.


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