# Bus Fare Increases



## Awesome Wells (Aug 24, 2008)

Well it had to happen...another increase in fares for the people of zumerzet & bristle what were i live. Anyone know how much more First are going to be gouging out of us? The increase is scheduled for the start of September.


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## Iam (Aug 24, 2008)

"Singles by 10p, returns by 10p, dayriders by 20p," says the driv opposite me.


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## Geri (Aug 24, 2008)

£3.90 for a Firstday! That's just taking the piss


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## Recumbent Boy (Aug 24, 2008)

Iam said:


> "Singles by 10p, returns by 10p, dayriders by 20p," says the driv opposite me.



These fare increases will be taking place on Sunday August 31st. I'm not looking forward to facing my passengers on Monday 1st September, but thankfully I'll be starting the day in the afternoon and won't have to face the morning confusion.


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 24, 2008)

To think, that 10p increase is all that stands between First and financial oblivion. What a terrible tightrope their shareholders walk.  

Thanks


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## Sunspots (Aug 24, 2008)

I'd be interested to know though whether First Bus, like many bus companies in England, qualify for the Bus Service Operators Grant (-aka Fuel Duty Rebate).  Under that scheme (-as I understand it...), operators have for many years been able to claim back anything up to about 75% of the tax they pay on diesel.

Apparently though, First Bus claim that this latest fare increase (-like most of their previous increases) is of course 'due to rising fuel prices'...


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## BlackArab (Aug 25, 2008)

It cost me £1.70 yesterday to go from St Pauls to Tescos, Eastville but yet the other day it was £2.20 (or £2.70 depending on the driver ) from Stokes Croft to Withywood. I can never understand their pricing.

Another thing, it pisses me off that Clifton & Redland get a flat rate (and cheap) service with numbers 8/9 service something which they are unwilling to provide anywhere in the city.


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## Isambard (Aug 25, 2008)

The 8 and 9 routes are cheap and frequent as they are the flagship routes used by posher people / students and visitors. 

So it's a method of pulling wool over decision makery eyes cos hey kind of don't realise the reest of the crap Firsts's "customers" have to put up with.


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## deviousmonkey (Aug 25, 2008)

Part of these fare changes also include the 8 & 9 routes. They are now working with the same same pricing as all others within Bristol.

Extract taken from their web-site: "Following constantly increasing costs of fuel, we are changing the prices of most fares". Hang on a mo! Hasn't the price of fuel dropped back down to a semi-resonable level (£1.10p/l compared to £125.5p/l)


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2008)

First have always used that as an excuse.


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## Isambard (Aug 26, 2008)

Last person as I am to defend First, it may well be that they have faced a large increase in fuel costs depending on their contracts etc.


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## Geri (Aug 26, 2008)

Isambard said:


> Last person as I am to defend First, it may well be that they have faced a large increase in fuel costs depending on their contracts etc.



I heard that their fuel prices were fixed for a few years yet, so I really don't think that's the reason.


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## Isambard (Aug 26, 2008)

Depends on their contracts, they are facing a long term ise in the price of their fuel.

Bristol though has possibly the worst public transport of any major UK city and First is not part of the solution, but a LARGE part of the problem.


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## JTG (Aug 26, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> It cost me £1.70 yesterday to go from St Pauls to Tescos, Eastville but yet the other day it was £2.20 (or £2.70 depending on the driver ) from Stokes Croft to Withywood. I can never understand their pricing.



Possibly to do with fare boundaries and driver flexibility over where they actually are.

The other month I was charged £2.20 from Stokes Croft to Bemmy yet noticed my ticket only said £1.70. Wonder who pocketed the extra 50p then


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## Gerry1time (Aug 26, 2008)

JTG said:


> The other month I was charged £2.20 from Stokes Croft to Bemmy yet noticed my ticket only said £1.70. Wonder who pocketed the extra 50p then



Yeah, had something similar the other week, me and the mrs both paid fares but he only issued one ticket for one fare. Didn't affect us, but seemed dodgy...


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## JTG (Aug 26, 2008)

Blatantly pocketing the money innit


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## Sunspots (Aug 26, 2008)

JTG said:


> Possibly to do with fare boundaries and driver flexibility over where they actually are.



Yeah, I think there's a fare boundary along City Rd (-probably the Brigstocke Road stop?).  I always used to get caught out by it when I lived 'round there; different drivers told you different things, and in all my years there, I never quite worked out which stop was the actual fare boundary.



JTG said:


> The other month I was charged £2.20 from Stokes Croft to Bemmy yet noticed my ticket only said £1.70. Wonder who pocketed the extra 50p then



A friend of mine recently got stung by this kind of thing.  

I don't know whether it was a scam by the driver or just an accident, but my friend paid the fare, not realising until later that the driver had given her a ticket with _'£0.00'_ printed on it.


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## JTG (Aug 26, 2008)

I'm sure when wiskers moved here she said a driver had told her she could save money by catching the bus the other side of the Bear Pit rather than from the one near Pie Minister. Yet I'm also fairly certain I've been charged the same fare from there as from the other one.

It's a lottery


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## Isambard (Aug 26, 2008)

Yeah, whole argument about driver only operation and cash handling.

IIRC Pogofish mentioned a couple of yearrs ago that Aberdeen bus drivers threatened industrial action becasue they woule no longer be handling cash.

A multi mode and operator clearly indentifiable and integrated tarif system is what is needed but the fact that such a system can work in dozens of cities acorss Europe proves it could never work in Greater Bristol.

No surprises on that story Jittug, I boycott the bus stop at the end of our street becasue WHATEVER direction you are coming to OR from, the Front OR ASDA the drive always claims it is an extra stage to pay.


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## Sunspots (Aug 27, 2008)

Sunspots said:


> Yeah, I think there's a fare boundary along City Rd (-probably the Brigstocke Road stop?).  I always used to get caught out by it when I lived 'round there; different drivers told you different things, and in all my years there, I never quite worked out which stop was the actual fare boundary.



Thinking about City Rd fare boundary: I'm fairly sure that there's three stops along there on the outward bound side, but only two on the side heading into town.  This is probably what's responsible for a lot of the confusion! 



JTG said:


> It's a lottery



Yeah, I think the fares have been so inconsistent and arbitrary for so long that a lot of people do just seem to accept it to an extent!  Passengers deserve better though, and this kind of reputation isn't exactly going to encourage more drivers to switch to using the bus.

Tbh, on the City Rd route, I didn't often bother to challenge the fares because for each time I was overcharged, I knew there'd been another time when I'd probably been undercharged.  Swings and roundabouts, etc.


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## Sunspots (Aug 27, 2008)

Isambard, you seem fairly clued up on these matters. -Do you know whether First get Fuel Duty Rebate?


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## Geri (Aug 27, 2008)

The fare boundaries should be clearly marked on the stops - I know the boundary for zone 1 is the bottom of Eastville Park and the stop at the top is the beginning of zone 2.


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## Recumbent Boy (Aug 27, 2008)

Oh the number of times I have problems because I ask for one fare and another driver has asked for different one for the same journey. God I wish could have conductors on the bus, let them worry about the tickets... I'll just worry about driving my bus through the most congested city in the country. Still I have my trusty fare book, which is a paper version of the ticket machine. At least then I can show the disgruntled passenger in black and white (actually currently the pages are yellow) why I'm charging what I am.

Oh and as for the stops either side of the Bear pit both stops are in the Central Area so won't make a difference if you are starting a bus trip there. Same fare stage so same ticket price. Unless.... you are coming down Gloucester Rd and get on outside Colston's Girls school. Then you can have a 2stop hop for £1.20 to the stokes croft, pieminster stop or a single to town for £1.70 for the house of frasier stop.

The city road fare stage is indeed Brigstocke Rd, and yes there are 3 stops going out of town, and 2 coming into town. If a passenger is coming into town and they ask for City road... not a problem, no confusion as Brigstocke Rd is the last stop on city road and so a tickect to that fare stage is what I have to issue. No arguements. Oh course life is never that easy.... going out of town the first 2 stops on City Road are covered by the Brigstocke Rd fare stage, and the 3rd is covered by the James St, St Werburgh's fare stage. So if a passenger just asks for City Rd, then if they are coming from the centre of town it is £1.20 for the first 2 stops and £1.70 for the 3rd. To avoid confusion I _always_ ask which stop on City Rd they want.

Taking £2.20 and issuing a £1.70 or even worse a £0.00 ticket is very naughty! A driver caught doing that is going to get fired. If it happens again, please report it... ok so my job doesn't pay the greatest, but that is not an excuse for rip off the passengers. I do my best to make sure my passengers get the best service I can give. Thats my job. it really PISSES me off when other drivers don't do their's properly.

Job related rant over...


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## Sunspots (Aug 27, 2008)

Recumbent Boy said:


> <snip>
> 
> Job related rant over...



A rant it may be, but it's an informed and helpful one. 

For this, all I can say is... _"-Cheers drive!"_  

(-Sorry, couldn't resist it.)


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## wiskey (Aug 27, 2008)

I was stunned by the shambolic state of the busses here when I first moved from London .  . .  one of my first journeys involved a driver getting off the bus and vanishing at midnight, nobody coming for 20mins, and then another driver wandering over and saying 'oh the bloke you're waiting for is a dead head. He'll be a while'. I got off and walked. When I went into the little office thing in the middle and asked the decrepit old bloke to explain how that happened, how fares work, how bus routes work etc he couldn't. Pretty much make it up as you go along  when I told him I could get 10miles across london for the same price as going 1 stop he told me I was 'spoilt' 

I DO get charged 50p more if I get the bus from o/s pie minister than o/s HoF. I've still never worked out why there isn't a bus from Bemmy to temple meads?!, I still don't know where the return bus stop for the 89/90 is in broadmead. 

I wasn't spoiled . . . London bus drivers are fantastic, honest - the idea of a bus driver pocketing money astounds me! really, helpful (to a point) and great drivers. First seems to spend so long fucking theirs around they just dont care about anything.


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## wiskey (Aug 27, 2008)

AND, AND busses here are missing a set of doors!!! whats that all about


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## JTG (Aug 27, 2008)

deregulation of buses outside London in the 1980s

so, blame Thatcher


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## JTG (Aug 27, 2008)

wiskey said:


> AND, AND busses here are missing a set of doors!!! whats that all about



They used to have two sets of doors until about 12 years or so ago.

They should paint them green like proper Bristol buses should be


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## wiskey (Aug 27, 2008)

JTG said:


> deregulation of buses outside London in the 1980s
> 
> so, blame Thatcher



Tbh I'm bored of that now. Its 2008


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## wiskey (Aug 27, 2008)

JTG said:


> They used to have two sets of doors until about 12 years or so ago.



Did they board them all up  

Did they suddenly think 'oh we dont need these handy way's of getting off the back of the bus


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## JTG (Aug 27, 2008)

still true though. London buses are that cheap, frequent and comprehensive because they are regulated by TfL.

Everywhere else it's a free for all.


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## JTG (Aug 27, 2008)

wiskey said:


> Did they board them all up
> 
> Did they suddenly think 'oh we dont need these handy way's of getting off the back of the bus



They just got new buses

sacrificed for more seats, yet also not required because Bristol buses aren't as busy as London ones so don't need the same ease of exit

why are they not as busy? because they're more expensive, less reliable etc

and so we go round again


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## wiskey (Aug 27, 2008)

I don't think there are ANY excuses for FGW frankly - if they let a group of 14yo/s set up their customer service charter and pricing structure it would be better than it is now.

And worse than that its their complete arrogance.


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## wiskey (Aug 27, 2008)

Just wait till I'm armed with a buggy . . .


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## JTG (Aug 27, 2008)

every time someone's bought a couple of old buses and set up a new service (used to be an excellent one serving the Lawrence Weston - town route), First have run them out of business using their sheer size to absorb fare reductions, improved frequency etc. Once the competition has given up, back to the old shambles.

tbf, the 77/76/75 route has got more frequent in the last four years. It used to only be half hourly


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## Recumbent Boy (Aug 27, 2008)

wiskey said:


> I DO get charged 50p more if I get the bus from o/s pie minister than o/s HoF.



Really? I'm curious as to where you are starting your journey and where you are travelling to, and on what route.  

*No I'm not doing a customer satisfaction survey for First


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## wiskey (Aug 27, 2008)

75/6 from o/s pieminister on stokes croft to the start of West st o/s the post office. 

tell me: why don't busses here automatically update the fare stage on the ticket machine? surely that would get rid of some of the hassle? or even charge flat rate.


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## Recumbent Boy (Aug 27, 2008)

wiskey said:


> 75/6 from o/s pieminister on stokes croft to the start of West st o/s the post office.
> 
> tell me: why don't busses here automatically update the fare stage on the ticket machine? surely that would get rid of some of the hassle? or even charge flat rate.



Ah the 76/77... I remember those wonderful years of driving those routes. I got off those routes when they moved the 76/77 from my Depot (Muller Rd) to the heathens over at Hengrove... how dare they steal my favourite bus routes  

I still get misty eyed remembering when the Parson St bus lane opened. 


So speaking with some authority... If you are paying more for getting on outside pieminster then you're getting ripped off. Any driver will have to show you an current and up to date (legal requirement) fare book if asked, said fare book will state quite clearly that the central area starts at Stokes Croft. It is probably a failing of the *snigger* "training school" not making sure that the new drivers are aware of the bus stops where the fare stages change.

Just for the record.
75/76/77 Fare stages southbound towards Bemmy and Hartcliffe.

Fare Stage 19 - Nine Tree Hill
Fare Stage 20 - Central Area, starts Stokes Croft and continues to The Grove opposite The Thekla
Fare Stage 21 - RedCliffe Hill
Fare Stage 22 - Bedminster Parade
Fare Stage 23 - West Street, Last stop opposite The White Lion

So for your journey Whiskey it would be 20 to 23 as you are starting in the Central Area and continuing on past Bedminster Parade. It sounds like you are getting charged from Nine Tree Hill. Any ticket bought from outside pieminster should have Central Area in the top left hand corner.

And as for the self updating ticket machines.... please don't make me cry. Oh god that would be SWEET! as would the flat rate. When I got removed from the 76/77 I found myself getting dizzy going around and around on the 8/8a and 9/9a. Pretty much a flat rate on that route, which was very nice. 

Now I can be found prowling about on 4/5/8/8a/9/9a/24/25/48/49/70/73 who knows where I'll be next.


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## butchersapron (Aug 27, 2008)

Have you knocked anyone down on Stapleton road yet? I don't know how you avoid doing so sometimes.


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## Recumbent Boy (Aug 27, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Have you knocked anyone down on Stapleton road yet? I don't know how you avoid doing so sometimes.



Thankfully I've not... although I know what you mean. Pavement lemmings seem to be more frequent along there. Although that being said the parking skillz displayed do serve as very effective traffic calming so I never seem to go more than a zimmer frame assisted walking pace.


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## Geri (Aug 27, 2008)

Yeah, even I can beat buses going up Stapleton Road!


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## wiskey (Aug 27, 2008)

Recumbent Boy said:


> Now I can be found prowling about on 4/5/8/8a/9/9a/24/25/48/49/70/73 who knows where I'll be next.



Please will you come and be my bus driver again? 

you've done very well at answering everything so far but . . . why isn't there a bus from bemmy to the station? (bar the stupid one that goes through town)?


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## Recumbent Boy (Aug 27, 2008)

Temple Meads is pretty much stuffed when it comes to the vehicles that try and use the bus stops there. I seriously doubt that you could fit any more busses in there. First had the No73 coming down Gloucester Rd and going to Temple Quay behind the station as they couldn't fit them into the station or on the stops at the bottom of the slope, as I understand it the people that own Temple Quay didn't like the busses stopping there as they were leaking oil on the nice paving stones there so when the agreement came to an end they didn't renew. So no new routes into Temple Meads. 

As to going back to driving the 76 and 77 route. I would but that would be a rather long bicycle ride to get to Hengrove depot in the morning... hmmmm actually I'm looking at having a longer commute.


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## Geri (Aug 27, 2008)

You could walk from Bedminster to Temple Meads though - or get the bus to Redcliffe and walk from there, it's not far.


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## hermitical (Aug 27, 2008)

cheers for all the friendly advice recumbent boy, if you see a beardy white van man round Muller Road, St Werburghs etc then give me a toot!!


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## wiskey (Aug 27, 2008)

Geri said:


> You could walk from Bedminster to Temple Meads though - or get the bus to Redcliffe and walk from there, it's not far.



I do walk to and from the station. But after 4 12hr night shifts and when its pissing down I do sometimes wonder why there is no bus.


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## Isambard (Aug 28, 2008)

Jittug has put his finger on it. Oooerrrr missssus.
Outside of London there is SUPPOSED to be competition.

Where I'm from to, there were a fair few duplicate routes between Southern National and Badgerline (as was) which SHOULD have brought the price down and the service up. But both are FIRST now, so guess the result.

Likewise there was that company South Glos. etc. that were running on key routes into town for a quid. But then FIRST (who have the financial capability) compete with them, drive them out of business etc. I saw the same when I lived in Newcastle.

The ONLY way forward I see is to regulate fares and services on an integrated public transport system. 
It could still give private operators the chance to make a profit, thought that isn't my priority. 

But what it needs is BACKBONE from the government and BACKBONE from the various local authorities in the greater Bristol area. And while you are waiting for that bus that ranks as one of the most expensive in the UK or that so overcrowded commuter train (if it's not on fire) that it prompts a unique fare strike you can watch the porkers flying over the horizon.


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## Geri (Aug 28, 2008)

wiskey said:


> I do walk to and from the station. But after 4 12hr night shifts and when its pissing down I do sometimes wonder why there is no bus.



Hardly any buses go to Temple Meads (with the exception of the 8/9) apart from the ones that have to go past anyway  (those going to Bath or Wells).

If we are going there we have to get off at Old Market and walk, or walk down to Easton and get the train.

I think the ideal scenario would be to move Temple Meads closer to town.


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## BlackArab (Aug 28, 2008)

JTG said:


> I'm sure when wiskers moved here she said a driver had told her she could save money by catching the bus the other side of the Bear Pit rather than from the one near Pie Minister. Yet I'm also fairly certain I've been charged the same fare from there as from the other one.
> 
> It's a lottery



Whenever I get the one from Pieminster the ticket says Central Area, I think they just make it up as they go along 

Ah just seen RB's postings, cheers for the explanation.


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 28, 2008)

Well my ticket is being increased by 50p (First Day Southwest). Handy.


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## Recumbent Boy (Aug 28, 2008)

*Oh this has been so well planned!*

I thought I had this Sunday off, but it seems that I do have to work after all... so I get to be there on the first day that these new fares go into operation. Today I was informing all my passengers that the fares are going up on Sunday and how much the ticket they just bought will cost from Sunday onwards. Not one knew that the fares are going up! NOT ONE! Sunday should be a barrel of laughs then!

Damn do I feel sorry for all my poor bus driving collegues who will be trundling around on the 8 and 9 routes on Sunday. The flat £1.40 fare is going, and being replaced by a standard single and return fare structure that the other routes my lovely employers operate. So if my passengers on the 4/5/24/25 routes today didn't know that they will be required to cough up extra from Sunday, what is the betting that the peeps who use the 8 and 9 routes don't know either. I loved driving those routes as most of the passengers would give me the exact £1.40 fare and sit down. What is going to happen on Monday morning when the passengers get off the train and jump on their usual bus and find that they don't have the correct fare? They will be expecting to pay £1.40 and will be charged... oh yes I don't know! I asked at the depot exactly what the changes to the fare structure will be and I couldn't get an answer. How messed up is that?

I do sooooo love my job sometimes 

And guess who will be to blame for the fares going up? 


/Edit - finally got the fare info... 36 Hours before it will all kick off.
Just in case anyone wants to know what is going to happen to the fares on the 8 and 9 routes.

The fare stages are going to remain the same.

Temple Meads Station
Central Area (All stops between Temple Way and College Green)
Park Street Top
Clifton/Redland (Student Union to Elton Road)

Singles... 
go only one fare stage e.g. Station to Centre 
£1.30 (Adult)
£0.70 (Child)

go 2 or 3 fare stages e.g. Clifton/Redland to Centre, or Station to Clifton/Redland 
£1.55 (Adult)
£0.80 (Child)

Returns...(peak- before 9am)
go only one fare stage e.g. Station to Centre
£2.80 (Adult)
£1.50 (Child)

go 2 or 3 fare stages e.g. Clifton/Redland to Centre, or Station to Clifton/Redland
£3.10 (Adult)
£1.55 (Child)

Returns...(offpeak- after 9am)
go only one fare stage e.g. Station to Centre
£1.55 (Adult)
£0.80 (Child)

go 2 or 3 fare stages e.g. Clifton/Redland to Centre, or Station to Clifton/Redland
£3.00 (Adult)
£1.50 (Child)

So not as bad as I was worried it might be, but still bad enough.


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## Isambard (Sep 2, 2008)

'kin hell, it FINALLY got reported on the BBC website today.

You lucky lucky lucky Bristolians! 
Bristol is apparently facing 10p on a fare, Bath and Weston 15p on a fare and those of us in Somerset 20p on a fare!


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## Recumbent Boy (Sep 3, 2008)

Thankfully I've not had any adverse reactions to the fare increases from my passengers and I've not heard of any of my bus driving friends having problems. I guess the public are used to the ever increasing fare prices by now.

*sigh of relief*


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## Awesome Wells (Sep 3, 2008)

First really are a bunch of cunts.

And I'm sorry to say, so are many of their drivers.


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## Sunspots (Sep 3, 2008)

Recumbent Boy said:


> Thankfully I've not had any adverse reactions to the fare increases from my passengers and I've not heard of any of my bus driving friends having problems.



As rightfully pissed off as passengers might be, I think _(-well, hope)_ most realise it's not actually the drivers' fault that the fares have gone up. 

-That said, I've sadly heard nothing yet of angry mobs surrounding First's head office, so I wouldn't be surprised if you do get one or two passengers venting their impotent rage at you...


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## Awesome Wells (Sep 3, 2008)

No one can afford the bus far to get to their bloody offices!


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## Recumbent Boy (Sep 3, 2008)

Awesome Wells said:


> No one can afford the bus far to get to their bloody offices!


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## idioteque (Sep 3, 2008)

Awesome Wells said:


> First really are a bunch of cunts.
> 
> And I'm sorry to say, so are many of their drivers.



Sounds a bit like my experiences too. The buses in Colchester are rubbish at the moment- they 'forgot' to send out my bus to work the other day, I was at the bus station which is the first stop, and nobody came out to drive it until someone complained half an hour later. Also, last week, a driver went straight past me whilst I was flagging him down and the bus was nowhere near full, and I saw a bus driver shouting and swearing in a customer's face last week because he'd made him print out the wrong ticket or something. The same week, I was on a bus where a driver was getting pissed off with a bloke because his kid was autistic 

eta: I know Colchester isn't the SW, so sorry! I only realised what forum this was in afterwards...


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## Awesome Wells (Sep 4, 2008)

If First banned smoking their drivers would run on time. 

You wait at the bus station for the bus, bus arrives five minutes before due out again. Driver gets off lights up. Gets back on when the bus is due out and then starts boarding. By the time it leaves the station it's almost 15 minutes late into a 30 minute journey. This happens every time, whatever time, so it's not just break time for the driver either. 

I've yet to have a driver apologise for a bus being late, regardles of the fact i've been waiting in the freezing cold at a stop they can't be bothered to look out for for 30 minutes. First also have an annoying practise where, if the bus turns up at a stop early (say 10 minutes before time) it won't wait. So while I'm on the other side of the road, or a few yards away, they will absolutely NOT wait until they are supposed to be there. Pedantic? Not really, had they waited I'd wouldn't have missed the bus!

I could go on. But it's more than me job's worth.


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## Iam (Sep 4, 2008)

My bus was 15 minutes late this morning. 4 stops into its journey.

Fares up, services down.

First are cunts.


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