# Knackers / overworking / (over)work-related illness



## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

Not mine; the lead researcher on a project I've been a research assistant on.

Twice I've had buckets of time just after we've finished the fieldwork, but the lead's said 'no! I'll do all the analysis.' So I've sent in the data and... nothing. Until, first time round, the week before the interim submission, when I've got a panicked call and've ended up putting all my work aside and going nuts on 16-18hr working days, producing >half the report.

Second time, the lead again said 'I'll cover the analysis!' after I sent in all the raw data. So, like, to make sure, I've sent regular emails saying 'can I help with anything, etc' and there's never been a reply - except for a couple of emails saying 'I'm on it!'

Oh, man, and it just hasn't happened again. Our deadline's now a month ago, I kinda need to be working on my PhD / papers, and my lead has just been signed off work. It's utterly understandable; taking on horrendous amounts of work, and it all makes sense in retrospect.

But the commissioners of the research (who gave us a 5-figure budget, of which we've used about £3k) have just called, and are working on the presumption that I'll take sole ownership of the report. Which is a bit of a nightmare, wrt being: 

a) a junior
b) fucking overloaded with work
c) having a PhD submission date looming
d) kinda needing to get some publications out

Bit of a pisser too, as if I'd had any forewarning I could've managed my workload infinitely better; but because ownership of the report'd been very explicitly removed from me, I've stepped back and concentrated on my own work (until a month ago, when I sent my lead a basic analysis - so, like, 'all you need to do with this is editing / shaping / proofing' - because my concerns were mounting).

Having been called by the research commissioners, I'll now need to speak to my lead about ownership of the report and the work that needs doing. Not sure how they'll feel - could be good / relief; could be awful / guilt.

And, obv, my lead is off; which makes all of this very understandable, and all of the processes leading up to the current difficulties very understandable. 

Still, "fuck!" This would've been a piece of piss with a bit more notice, now it's looking like a 94% headfuck. But, yadda yadda yadda, not having a bit more notice is all a part of the process / stress.

[/rant]


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## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

On the other hand, I guess it's an opportunity to build some stronger links with practitioners / develop a stronger role in a pretty new area of work. 

So whinging aside, and accepting that my PhD submission (etc) will be delayed (beyond my stipend), could be some opportunities in this too.

It's all a bit messy, though.

*sigh*


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## TruXta (Jul 6, 2011)

Sounds a bit like the project I've been on for the last 4 years.... PI takes two years out (sabbatical + maternity leave) then comes back screaming and shouting that I've done fuck all (somewhat true) and everything is ruined. I'm going - you're the bloody PI, how about _you_ do some fucking work on it?


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## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Sounds a bit like the project I've been on for the last 4 years.... PI takes two years out (sabbatical + maternity leave) then comes back screaming and shouting that I've done fuck all (somewhat true) and everything is ruined. I'm going - you're the bloody PI, how about _you_ do some fucking work on it?


 


I guess my difficulty is slightly less... angry?

Insofar as my main concern with my lead is that they'll blow up in a ball of guilt and shame if I do anything that expresses that I'm pissed off / feel pretty substantially let down. IME, they're good enough at inferring that for themselves, over countless workloads, which is probably one of the reasons they're currently off (and need to take a step back).

The lead also wouldn't blow up  But would, rather, feel awful about it all, and wouldn't tell me that they were feeling awful about it all / were struggling with it, and wouldn't respond to general offers of help. So it'd just get worse and worse and closer and closer to crunch point. Going by the last couple of rounds, at least.

tbh, as the junior, I find that a bit hard to manage. So to speak.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 6, 2011)

You mentioned this woman before I think.

Repeatedly taking lots of stuff on which you can't do and then leaving other people to dig you out of it is pretty immature and destructive behaviour, no matter how "guilty" and "ashamed" people feel about it. They still keep bloody doing it; either they're not feeling guilty and ashamed enough or they're getting off on it.


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## 8115 (Jul 6, 2011)

Twice isn't repeatedly, it's twice.  One of the issue is not just this person not doing it, but the commisioners automatically assuming you've got nothing else to do but do their work, no?  Why should the extra work fall on your plate, not that it's not a shit situation but can't you say, I'll do it but I need longer etc etc.


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## 8115 (Jul 6, 2011)

Doesn't it make you wonder what kind of relationship she had with them?


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## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You mentioned this woman before I think.
> 
> Repeatedly taking lots of stuff on which you can't do and then leaving other people to dig you out of it is pretty immature and destructive behaviour, no matter how "guilty" and "ashamed" people feel about it. They still keep bloody doing it; either they're not feeling guilty and ashamed enough or they're getting off on it.


I wrote a PM in reply, then chose not to send it 

I think you're on to something, basically, but that situation is a bit more complicated. 



8115 said:


> Twice isn't repeatedly, it's twice.  One of the issue is not just this person not doing it, but the commisioners automatically assuming you've got nothing else to do but do their work, no?  Why should the extra work fall on your plate, not that it's not a shit situation but can't you say, I'll do it but I need longer etc etc.


 
Yeah. No. Right.

Yes, I could - in theory - put this off. 

Problem is, what do I gain by putting it off? 

I'm already acutely aware that we're over a month overdue on delivering this report.

I'm also aware that we're one of the only independent teams looking at this (large, new, govt) initiative in the UK. The relationship with my lead is pretty minimal, but it was a well-funded research opportunity.

I'm also aware that I'm a fuck-all, basically, an unpaid PhD student who's doing this for the research interest, the access, the career opportunities, and the chances of a paper. 

So far, I've put in... fucking hell, I hate to think. I've put in... 



Spoiler: blah



about 10-12 FT 14-24 hour days of traveling / interviews. We've reamed about 40-60hrs of interviews. I've transcribed about 1/2 of those, x3.5, = 85hrs transcribing. 

Add in another 9 days of 14-24hr days for the first report, last minute work. And another 2 days FT for the stats. 

And another week or so for the preparatory work for the second report.



And all in all, probably about 11 weeks of FT work, at least.

Unpaid, I should add 

If I let that go unconverted / unfinished, it's a massive loss in terms of time / investment. Whereas, in practice, if I just say fuck it, and prioritise this work, it'll probably take a week or so; it'll be another reference / paper on my CV (which is good); it'll be another source of research access for future work; and it'll be an area I can claim some academic interest / expertise in. Again, useful for future job applications...

I'm also inclined ot think that the commissioners of this research have a good point. We've run a month over our deadline, and we really shouldn't've done. IMO. I feel that - in terms of the investment they've put into us, wrt staff time AND research funding (well, expenses) we owe them a report n all.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jul 6, 2011)

No chance of offshoring the transcription and still staying within budget? That must be the painful bit.


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## stuff_it (Jul 6, 2011)

What you need is a temporary (paid but not much) assistant  

*muahahaha*

/grasping at job straws mode

Sorry, not much help really....really no chance of getting someone in to help on some of the lower level stuff though? It's not really fair on you and of course you could end up overworked and stressed yourself. No chance of even getting a recent graduate in the field in perhaps? Who is actually in charge of the remaining budget (if there is any)? I'm sure the sponsors would rather have the report than not, like you say...


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## Bob_the_lost (Jul 6, 2011)

It's a week and you're a sucker for punishment. 

On the other hand you're going out of your way to pick up after someone else who isn't doing their share. Are you edging to the point where you can claim lead?


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## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> No chance of offshoring the transcription and still staying within budget? That must be the painful bit.


 
A big, big chunk of the transcription for the second round of interviews was off shored to Artichoke  Who was skint, and in college / work holidays.



Bob_the_lost said:


> It's a week and you're a sucker for punishment.
> 
> On the other hand you're going out of your way to pick up after someone else who isn't doing their share. Are you edging to the point where you can claim lead?


 
tbf, I've already been given lead author on the interim report. The dificulty - recently - has been more wrt power / authority. I've been _technically_ the assistant, which has meant that when my lead's said that they're doing the work, that it's ok, etc - I've kinda felt unable to do owt about it until crunch / crisis point.

The latest exchange of emails with the research 'owners' has been them, basically, driving for me to take ownership of the analysis / write-up because that's the way that (it looks like) it's going to get done at the mo.

So, yeah, I guess the main difficulty - surprise workload aside - is negotiating the 'junior / assistant' thing, and trying to work out how to get stuff done without exceeding what I can reasonably do. 

I'll need references as well as papers in the future!


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## TruXta (Jul 6, 2011)

TBH your situation sounds ominously like mine. Expected to do/not do certain things, then no communication, then crisis mode when work done in lead's absence doesn't match up to her somewhat unrealistic expectations. Then make friends, do good work, taper off, repeat and rinse.


Only 2 more weeks now...


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## ymu (Jul 6, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I guess my difficulty is slightly less... angry?
> 
> Insofar as my main concern with my lead is that they'll blow up in a ball of guilt and shame if I do anything that expresses that I'm pissed off / feel pretty substantially let down. IME, they're good enough at inferring that for themselves, over countless workloads, which is probably one of the reasons they're currently off (and need to take a step back).
> 
> ...


 
Why not just take it off her hands, no recriminations? She'll probably be grateful if she's that crap at managing her workload. If you want to stay in public sector research you won't get paid directly for half of what you do, but the opportunity to take the lead on something significant early on is huge. Put the hours in you lazy bastard! 

More seriously, I had a boss (and now client) who was (and is) like this. Fucking hopeless for taking on too much, and completely unable to delegate. If it's not done as well or better than she would do it, she flies into a rage and does it all again herself ... which means she never manages to teach anyone how to do it as well as she would do it herself, so she rarely has anyone to delegate to.

She's still ringing me up at 2am wanting stuff done the next day, sending me emails that have to be dealt with urgently but she's been sitting on it for a week. And then she gets offended when I point out that she can't do that shit when she no longer guarantees me a pay cheque every month and rarely seems to think about how she's going to pay me for digging her out of a hole ... 

So, yeah ... You need to grab this opportunity, but you also need to protect yourself from pathologically disorganised individuals. Unfortunately, this one is also a close friend, so I am trying to work out how to be diplomatic. Challenging ...


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## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

Yeah, ty, ymu. I've sent an email suggesting that - that I put in the work, and we submit, to get it out of the way. 

They've also asked us if one of us can present the work to their (pretty senior) board. The day of the presentation is the first day of a family-booked holiday; but I'm thinking that I might just have to head down a day late.

I've also got to work out how to get 4 sets of phone interview notes - which'll be written in impenetrable and elusive handwritten snippets 

fwiw, I get the feeling I might've slightly mis-represented things. Insofar as the main issue - afaict - is a bit of a broken relationship with work, and someone working themselves into obliteration in a way that's quite worrying. Rather than a drive for perfection / recalcitrance to teach / particularly exacting or demanding standards / etc. Also, the LACK of communication's been my major difficulty - which again tallies with the 'stress' side of things, IMO. Hiding from elements of an unmanageable workload, and putting off letting people down (rather than being up front about it). Which - tbh - is something I've done in the past. And which I can kinda understand (and feel a lot better about, tbh) now that I can frame it in a context of work-related stress / overwork / etc.


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## 8115 (Jul 6, 2011)

Managing upwards.  Gotta love it.  Anyway, congratulations on your unexpected promotion.  I guess?


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## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

8115 said:


> Managing upwards.  Gotta love it.  Anyway, congratulations on your unexpected promotion.  I guess?


 
Hahahaha! Yeah, it's looking that way, isn't it? Though promotion only in terms of taking on the work, and (most likely) presenting it.

tbh, having accepted that I've got to do this work (instead of fighting it), and having looked at what I'd previously sent my lead - it actually looks like I've already done 85-95% of the work. It's a very pleasant surprise, all the more so given I'd thought I'd sent off an awful draft; it's looking like it's in pretty damned good shape, and mostly in need of a brief bit of copy editing / touching up.

Quantitative report also - clearly - needs a fat piece of work (having spoken to a bewildered practitioner earlier today, who clearly couldn't grasp what the charts represented), as does some collation of documents and summarising of policy documents. But, well, yeah. It looks as if - perhaps even more irritatingly - I've already done pretty much everything that needed to be done, I've just been waiting on my lead's editing and approval.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm sure it's certainly more complicated. I'm just both a bit pissed off with dealing with people who do this myself, and I seem to come across a lot of them, falling into one or more of

(a) people who are desperate to impress and don't ever want to say anything that makes them look like they aren't omnicompetent - often young people who want to look "professional" but don't realise that this makes them look amateur. A lot of young programmers are like this and I try to tell them it's not going to help and how to get round it but they can still be an utter pain;

(b) people who simply have trouble with communication in general;

(c) the group I call "perma-guilty over-achievers", often teachers and academics but also artists and designers, for whom work is basically penance - they know that deep down they're lazy and useless and don't deserve to be where they are, and it's only a matter of time before somebody finds them out (which they would _deserve_) and they might be able to put this off by working sixteen hour days over Christmas. Each new deadline is another rope on the flogger.

Group (c) is absolutely _loved_ by bosses because they work all hours and are actually good at what they do, and anything they have trouble with because of bad specs or someone else screwing up, they'll blame on themselves. They do tend to burn out at unpredictable points, though - particularly due to _other_ commitments for which they blame themselves _more_, like family ones.


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## TruXta (Jul 6, 2011)

You're all scaring me now with your mind-reading skills.


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## Miss-Shelf (Jul 6, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> (c) the group I call "perma-guilty over-achievers", often teachers and academics but also artists and designers, for whom work is basically penance - they know that deep down they're lazy and useless and don't deserve to be where they are, and it's only a matter of time before somebody finds them out (which they would _deserve_) and they might be able to put this off by working sixteen hour days over Christmas. Each new deadline is another rope on the flogger


 

and MrsQ - do get more help than just transcribing and as said above enjoy your promotion
just be wary of this situation again with this person but you either have to walk away from it at this point or do it


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## mrs quoad (Jul 21, 2011)

RIGHT!

I think the fucker's done, and competently done at that.

The work, that is. Not my lead.

Done, that is.

The work.

I think my main concern now is that my lead is saying that they'll take responsibility for the final proofing / editing. They've already missed one deadline (said they'd forward written-up notes from 4 interviews a couple of days ago; that then seemed to've moved to August 1st; tonight it's turned into August 3rd). And the initial 2 weeks off is (perhaps unsurprisingly) looking like it might be a bit longer (though they're still working, which I'm not convinced is a great idea. But ay.).

I think I probably get it to a point where I'd be happy to submit it, then see what happens. tbh, I think it's pretty much there already.


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## Miss-Shelf (Jul 24, 2011)

good going Mrs Q


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## mrs quoad (Aug 9, 2011)

3 days left til our final deadline. My lead's taken the final report for final copy-editing, and to add in the information I don't have (they conducted 4 telephone interviews, and had written notes from a couple of other interviews). I've heard nothing since sending off the report last Weds... emailed yesterday to ask if the 12th was looking feasible, and asking how the work was going; and got a reply saying the 12th will 'have to be' doable. No comment on any progress / work done. Which kinda worries me, because the last two times I heard nothing back, that meant nothing was being done.

Fingers crossed :s


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## equationgirl (Aug 9, 2011)

My fingers are crossed for you too.


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## mrs quoad (Aug 10, 2011)

TY, EG.

Just had an email saying it won't be ready 'til Monday  I think I'm expected to contact the funders, but the email is sounding indistinct. And a bit worrying.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 10, 2011)

It doesn't sound like it will be ready by Monday either tbh.

What happens if you miss the deadline?


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## mrs quoad (Aug 10, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It doesn't sound like it will be ready by Monday either tbh.
> 
> What happens if you miss the deadline?


We fuck off the funders. Who've invested a whole lot of time and energy in us, and who provided a five-figure budget (which we've, admittedly, only used a small proportion of).

This is, like, the 2nd or 3rd deadline we've missed.

I'm finding this one particularly frustrating, as I sacked off a job application (a post-doc in Oxford, focusing on exactly my area of interest!) in order to blitz the report and get it to a point where I'd be pretty much willing to present it on the basis that I'd be doing it alone. Minor copy-editing, bit of touching up, 1-2 days' more work, bob's yer uncle.

Then my lead said they'd be doing the final work; but couldn't touch it until the 3rd. Now... I've frankly got no idea what's happening, but get the impression they haven't yet looked at the report (because they haven't said how the work's going when asked; and don't seem to have much of an idea of how long it'll take to finish) and can't now take back ownership, as the working copy is in their hands.

I've also *finally* gotten to a stage where I'm working on my own PhD instead of side projects / reports for practitioners; I'm unwilling to sack that off for a 3rd or 4th time in order to focus on something that would've been a piece of piss (and easily manageable) if I hadn't been dumped right in it by a series of delays until things hit a crisis point.


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## mrs quoad (Aug 15, 2011)

Looks like it actually WILL be ready today.

(!)


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## equationgirl (Aug 16, 2011)

Hurrah!


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## mrs quoad (Aug 16, 2011)

It wasn't, fwiw 

But got sent off today.


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