# Cruelty-Free Festive Fair – Saturday 10 December 2011



## joe666 (Oct 18, 2011)

Cruelty-Free Festive Fair – Saturday 10 December 2011
11am – 5pm
Broadmead Baptist Church , Union Street , Central Bristol
An Alternative Festive Experience!
Free Entry!
Scrummy vegan food, cooking demos, ethical gifts, talks, campaign stalls, freebies, kids’ activities and more…
Visit bristolanimalrights.org.uk or email barc@hotmail.co.uk for more information!


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## Gerry1time (Oct 18, 2011)

I never knew spam could be vegan.


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## rubbershoes (Oct 18, 2011)

I read it as crusty-free festival, which seemed unlikely


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## joe666 (Oct 19, 2011)

oops sori if that looked spamy! i'm just trying to promote the event. I did " lol " at both the above coments,v.funny.
It's always a really good event so please tell your friends and come along yourselves. Have a look at the website for more info.
cheers


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## gentlegreen (Dec 27, 2011)

A *church* full of Mink liberating idiots-


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## Geri (Dec 27, 2011)

Actually a lot of minks were released by the fur farmers themselves.


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## gentlegreen (Dec 27, 2011)

How did that work ?

Insurance ?


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## Geri (Dec 27, 2011)

I think it happened when fur farming was made illegal in the UK. Cheaper to release them then get them put down. I can't find any evidence for it online though, it's just something I remember from the time.


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## joe666 (Dec 28, 2011)

Hay Gentlegreen you call us mink liberating idiots? er really? of all the insults you could have gone for...Damn! let me help you!. You could have pointed out that the animal rights movement is rife with misanthropic wierdos! You could have pointed out that animal rights people are always late and can't drive for shit! You could have mentioned the fact that the movement is mostly white, middle class males....... but instead you mentioned mink...mink! *Sigh* Mink farming was banned in 2000 in this country.So perhaps it's time to move on?! As Geri points out farmers themselves released mink for insurance purposes. Also mink that were liberated spread out ( as they are territorial ) and became part of the British wildlife. They were not responsible for the destruction of the otter population ( as is claimed ) it was hunting that fucked the otters.

As it goes the event was a massive success with around 600 people turning up...so their!


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## Gerry1time (Dec 28, 2011)

Having just browsed your website, I don't think it's right to call you idiots as such. Misleading sensationalists perhaps, complete loonspuds even, but not idiots.


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## joe666 (Dec 29, 2011)

Not heard of loonspuds before i'm afraid but i get the gist ! How would you say we were sensationalist? Any constructive criticism we could use to improve the site would be gratefully taken on board... gosh there are some nice people on the internet isn't there!


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## Gerry1time (Dec 29, 2011)

Well accusing animal testing people of sadism isn't at all accurate. They're not doing it for fun or sexual gratification, as would be required for sadism, they're doing it for a job. By trying to be emotive, you're actually reducing the impact of your message.

Also the failure to differentiate between the different methods of production for foie gras seems misleading too. Some of them are barbaric, whilst others involve just putting more food out for them than you normally might. Certain migratory birds will eat until food runs out entirely of their own volition, making it no more cruel than standard meat rearing.

In general, the habit of seeing all and any use of animals as cruelty really detracts from your message. You're not going to get the entire world to turn vegan, people will always use/eat animals and animal products. So if you set your sights a bit lower, you could actually get much closer to seeing your goals realised. See Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall for a good example of this approach.

I don't disagree with all you stand for at all, and you've got some important points to make. Writing about it in a tabloid journalist/lib dem focus leaflet style really reduces your credibility though. IMHO at least.


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## joe666 (Dec 29, 2011)

Fair/interesting points. I think i disagree with you mostly though. With regards to sadism i think there are strong arguments to be made that, at least some,of those involved in testing are sadistic. I think the majority of foie gras is factory farmed. I don't think we need to sensationalise animal abuse as,sadly, i think it is as extreme as we point out. Don't believe me? Take a trip to your local slaughter house/lab/factory farm etc.


I think you make a interesting point about how we condem all animal use/abuse as cruel.  We do want to try and convert as many people as possible to veganism and i for one am not interested in setting my sights lower. For low sight setting there is the RSPCA/ CIWF ( CIWF are the oxymoronic "compasion in world farming" ) and similar welfare groups. Campaigning for veganism is calling for a end to moral  schizophrenia towards animals. One example of this is how people love there pet cat but eat cows.Prof Gary Francione talks about this here -  http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/
Hugh fucking whittingstall and all other famous celebrity chef's should be lined up and shot! ( i don't mean that in a vegan rage way,they are just dicks! )  Sori that's my personal opinion not the bristol animal rights collective party line by the way. Seriously though we are not calling for bigger cages and less beatings for animals we are calling for the abolition of cages and beatings for animals. This is the difference between animal rights and animal welare.

I'll have a look at the site and think about the style of writing - really don't want it to sound like a lib dem leaflet..cos the lib dems should all be lined up and...shit do i sound like jeremy fucking clarkson!


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## xenon (Dec 30, 2011)

Where's the tasty lab grown meat already? It' snearly 2012 FFS. Then maybe we can move away from mass meat production derived from living beasts.  Perhaps peple like me, may modify particular choices of food but I can't see myself giving up meat any time soon. Anyway, you can't equate a pet pig to one reared for meat. Quite obviously the emotional attachment is different. There's no uniform emotional attachment or regard between you and every single member of the human race after all. Why would it be different with animals.

That said. I'm fully in support of peple trying to shine light on and accurately report on the sometimes horrific industrial practises that supply consumption.


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## Ax^ (Dec 30, 2011)

i think i'm going to have to eat my pets

just to stop the "well you love your cat" bullshit


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## gentlegreen (Dec 30, 2011)

I suppose at least this bunch of Vegans wouldn't support the terrorist attacks on scientists and research labs ...

I'm an ex-vegan who was chosen by two cats - I used to wrestle with my conscience come feeding time.


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## Ax^ (Dec 30, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> I suppose at least this bunch of Vegans wouldn't support the terrorist attacks on scientists and research labs ...
> 
> I'm an ex-vegan who was chosen by two cats - I used to wrestle with my conscience come feeding time.



and now you must consume the both of them to avoid the pitfalls of moral schizophrenia


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## xenon (Dec 30, 2011)

Hot Button topic *Alan Partridge voice*

Should vegans keep pets at all, let alone feed them meat.
(I jest. can't be arsed with the argument myself.)


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## joe666 (Dec 31, 2011)

er....okay... really? I mean really?...Response to Xenon, you seem a little mental. Until you can manage to string together a coherent argument I may just ignore you. Ax, talking to someone about this post/thread they suggested that in response to what you said about eating your pet they suggested that I respond to you by claiming that actually I just ate your mum. But I am much too mature to put that. Also, if you don't give a fuck about your pets why burden yourself with them, you fucktard? They said.
Gentlegreen, in response to your post, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Terrorism is a subjective concept dependent upon your individual beliefs. I don't know which terrorist attacks you are refering to? Have you seen any of the undercover footage, taken from exposees of labs, where animals have been tortured and murdered? This hasn't happened to vivisectors. Some windows have been broken but I don't think it really compares. Interestingly no-one's commented on the link to Gary Francione's website, which talks about speciesism; all I've heard is insults, stupidity and insanity (xenon).


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## joustmaster (Dec 31, 2011)

vegans or jehovah's witness
hmmm
i'm not sure


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## gentlegreen (Dec 31, 2011)

joe666 said:


> Some windows have been broken but I don't think it really compares.


Whither Huntingdon Life Sciences ?

And the death threats against Colin Blakemore ?

I find cosmetics testing despicable, but one day my life will depend on medical treatments developed using animal experiments.


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## joe666 (Dec 31, 2011)

Joustmaster - yeah its a shame the event happened in a church - in my opinion anyway. It was chosen for it's central location. I think it's safe to say most of are group are athiest though and i think we will use a differnt venue in future. I personally am a athiest and have a big problem with religon - gentle green i'll respond to you afrter my cooked breakfast thats ready now!


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## gentlegreen (Dec 31, 2011)

joe666 said:


> breakfast





Are you a student by any chance ?


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## xenon (Dec 31, 2011)

joe666 said:


> er....okay... really? I mean really?...Response to Xenon, you seem a little mental. Until you can manage to string together a coherent argument I may just ignore you. Ax, talking to someone about this post/thread they suggested that in response to what you said about eating your pet they suggested that I respond to you by claiming that actually I just ate your mum. But I am much too mature to put that. Also, if you don't give a fuck about your pets why burden yourself with them, you fucktard? They said.
> Gentlegreen, in response to your post, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Terrorism is a subjective concept dependent upon your individual beliefs. I don't know which terrorist attacks you are refering to? Have you seen any of the undercover footage, taken from exposees of labs, where animals have been tortured and murdered? This hasn't happened to vivisectors. Some windows have been broken but I don't think it really compares. Interestingly no-one's commented on the link to Gary Francione's website, which talks about speciesism; all I've heard is insults, stupidity and insanity (xenon).



It's pretty simple. 
1. I'd like to see safe tasty lab grown meat developped.
2. Until then, I'm probably still going to eat meat derived from animals.
3. Most peple don't form the same emotional attachments between pets and animals reared for food. Farmers don't eat their dogs, do they?
4. You might disagree with 3 but it is self evidently true. Wishing it wasn't and trying to make a facile point by showing up supposed hipocracy is obtuce.

And I'm the mental one? O...K...


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## joe666 (Dec 31, 2011)

hi im back now - lol at gentle green,no im not a student  - ( i know it's a bit wrong/prejudice but i don't really like alot of them ) i was haveing alay in cos im on holiday!...okay so you talked about HLS, colin blakemore and medical testing. HLS is europes largest animal testing lab,exposed numerous times for animal abuse. They are a contrct research lab and so will test any subject for any customer who pay's them. Yes they have been attacked but i don't think what activist's have done compares in anyway to the massive amount of terror,torture and abuse that happens in that lab everyday. You are obviously entitled to disagree but thats what i think. Alexi sayle wrote a really good article about this  ( maybe in the independant? ) where he says he dosent care about attacks on the property of those who work at HLS as, in his mind, they had lost the right to not have their stuff broken when they hurt ( well extremely abused ) aninmals!

Colin Blakemore stiched up kittens eyes in sight experiments. I don't think these helped anyone and were obviously really cruel. He did get threats and attacks on his property. Ive spoken to loads of people,not just animal rights folk but your averidge person in the street who would have been happy to give the fucker a right kicking for that! I suppose if animal abuse happens behind walls and is done by people in whitecoats it is socially exceptible to some people...at least legal. I suppose their is a whole discusion on the legitamcy of the use of violence/property damage here which we could have if people can be arsed...don't know if i can! Obviously once people engaged in social strugle have one there fight they are freedom fighters not terorists - two examples would be  the ANC and the votes for whomen.


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## gentlegreen (Dec 31, 2011)

Oh well, I'm sure you'll fit in well here - there are plenty of folk who cheered on the Stokes Croft rioters ...


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## ddraig (Dec 31, 2011)

stop being such a grumpy sod gg
happy new bloody year


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## joe666 (Dec 31, 2011)

exxon you said -" It's pretty simple. 
1. I'd like to see safe tasty lab grown meat developped.
2. Until then, I'm probably still going to eat meat derived from animals.
3. Most peple don't form the same emotional attachments between pets and animals reared for food. Farmers don't eat their dogs, do they?
4. You might disagree with 3 but it is self evidently true. Wishing it wasn't and trying to make a facile point by showing up supposed hipocracy is obtuce.

And I'm the mental one? O...K... "

sori maybe i just misunderstood you before -1 -  you want to see lab meat grown. Interesting one and i'm not 100per cent sure how i feel about it. I think i'm against it really. I love fake meat ( soya gack! ) like the redwoods fake meat range and others but i am trying to get away from that stuff now and eat more meals based on organic veg. Hope i don't sound like a hippy... i don't really like hippys.

2 - I'm sori your still going to eat meat, thats a shame.

3+4 " most people don't form the same emotional attachments between pets and animals reared for food. farmers don't eat their dogs do they?" Farmers will use their dogs in a differnt way though - the working dog will go ratting,the sheep dog will round up the sheep and the chocolate lab will act as a status dog and make the farmer look good ( well to some people .) I think some farmers may have pet dogs they "love"   this is moral schizophrenia and shows a arbitary distinction between animals. Their is no real difference between the dog and the pig/cow/chicken. It is a fact that they both feel pain,have and care about familly and friends etc. If you say you don't care about that then that is one thing,it's your opinion and i disagree but to deny it as a fact is wrong.like literaly wrong. like saying 2+2 = 17. People who don't want to be morally schizophrenic go vegan. I'm not being preachy just responding to your coment - Sadly most people in this country do not form that emotional attachment between pets and animals raised for food as you point out - i am trying to encourage people to do so!

I hope this makes sense! Sadly i'm not as eloquent as i would like to be!


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## joe666 (Dec 31, 2011)

i should have just said wot ddraig said!


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## xenon (Jan 1, 2012)

No worries. Happy new year.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 1, 2012)

what if the lab grown meat was from your own cells. A big steak made out of your own body?

I can't wait to try a me steak


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## joe666 (Jan 4, 2012)

If your a woman it might be a miss-steak/mistake.
sori


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