# Why is it safe to eat undercooked beef and not pork poultry or seafood?



## Dandred (Sep 26, 2005)

I undersatnad about different bacteria that can be found in different meats, but why is it no problem to have a nearly raw beef steak, but doing the same with chiken or pork and some sea foods can kill you?

I think the question should be more, how can beef not contain the bacteria that can cause serious food poisioning?

Have cattle been domesticated far longer than poultry and pork? Could this be a reason?


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## trabuquera (Sep 26, 2005)

*parasites me boy, parasites*

Pork contains parasites (called trichomoniasis or something? nasty, anyway) and worm cysts which can mess you right up if you eat it undercooked. Also tastes horrible raw.

Chicken  contains salmonella and other stomach bugs - also tastes horrible raw.

Seafood on the other hand - often does contain parasites (flukes, worms, etc) that can mess you up, but by and large they're not so serious. The food-poisoning stuff (in shellfish and some fish - like ceguetera, salmonella, etc) is more to do with storage than cooking - cooking doesn't kill these bacteria anyway. And seafood actually tastes yummy un/undercooked - see sushi, rare grilled tuna steak, ceviche where it's just treated with acid like lemon juice or vinegar - so people decide to risk it. The acid dousing doesn't kill cholera tho, which can be found in seafood, so you can still be caught out. 

Beef doesn't have the pork or chicken parasites. If it's reasonably fresh there's nothing wrong with cooking it rare. and it's delish that way. so that's why.


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## chegrimandi (Sep 26, 2005)

is rarish lamb ok? I've always thought it is.....?


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## Dandred (Sep 26, 2005)

trabuquera said:
			
		

> Beef doesn't have the pork or chicken parasites. If it's reasonably fresh there's nothing wrong with cooking it rare. and it's delish that way. so that's why.




If you read my post properly you will see that I said I already understand about the bacteria in pork poultry and sea food.

The queston was why is it that beef doesn't have the "parasites" that poutry and pork do have.


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## trabuquera (Sep 26, 2005)

*WHY doesn't it?*

ffs - only trying to help ... (*huff*)
I suspect the answer has something to do with the way their digestive system works (which is why you are also OK eating pinkish or even raw lamb, if you really want to). All the 4 stomachs working together kills the cysts, or something.

If you want the cell-by-cell biological breakdown may I suggest you contact a zoologist on this board, or an Agricultural College?


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## Bob_the_lost (Sep 26, 2005)

Dandred said:
			
		

> Have cattle been domesticated far longer than poultry and pork? Could this be a reason?



I doubt it's due to that, and chicken generations are much faster than cattle ones so the difference is probably minimal.


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## Dandred (Sep 27, 2005)

trabuquera said:
			
		

> ffs - only trying to help ... (*huff*)
> I suspect the answer has something to do with the way their digestive system works (which is why you are also OK eating pinkish or even raw lamb, if you really want to). All the 4 stomachs working together kills the cysts, or something.
> 
> If you want the cell-by-cell biological breakdown may I suggest you contact a zoologist on this board, or an Agricultural College?



The four stomach idea seems to make sense. 

I was actually hoping for a biologist to notice this thread and give me a detailed answer.

Still don't know why harmful bacteria can't/don't grow on beef, even after it's been butchered.


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## Lock&Light (Sep 27, 2005)

I regularly eat raw herring, sometimes as many as five at a go, and have never had any kind of problem.


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## WasGeri (Sep 27, 2005)

Is it OK for cats to eat raw chicken? Only mine goes mental for it so we usually end up giving her some.


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## tobyjug (Sep 27, 2005)

Dandred said:
			
		

> I undersatnad about different bacteria that can be found in different meats, but why is it no problem to have a nearly raw beef steak, but doing the same with chiken or pork and some sea foods can kill you?
> 
> I think the question should be more, how can beef not contain the bacteria that can cause serious food poisioning?
> 
> Have cattle been domesticated far longer than poultry and pork? Could this be a reason?




I am a tad puzzled by your perception. Any meat produced in Britain can safely eaten not cooked to death if basic hygiene rules are followed. (All mince should be thoroughly cooked whatever animal it came from)
Much seafood can in fact be eaten raw as long as it is not caught near a sewage outlet.


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## Dandred (Sep 27, 2005)

tobyjug said:
			
		

> I am a tad puzzled by your perception. Any meat produced in Britain can safely eaten not cooked to death if basic hygiene rules are followed. (All mince should be thoroughly cooked whatever animal it came from)
> Much seafood can in fact be eaten raw as long as it is not caught near a sewage outlet.




Well I did say can kill, you not definatly will kill you.

I've never heard of someone getting food poisoning from beef, have you?


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## trabuquera (Sep 27, 2005)

*beware MINCE...*

Dandred - I think you CAN actually get food poisoning from beef but if you do, it's usually e.coli from mince - and the problem here arises from hygiene (to put it bluntly - cowpat traces from the cow's guts, or human dung on the preparer's hands, being minced in with the flesh meat) rather from anything in the beef meat itself. (sorry this isn't v clear.) Of course there's also BSE - but again that's from bits of the cow you shouldn't really be eating anyway (brain, spinal cord) rather than the nice steak-y bits of the animal. other than that your risks of food poisoning (listeria / salmonella / trichonosis etc) from beef are minimal.

hmm. wonder if the thing about the stomachs has anything to do with the Old Testament & Jewish rule that you can only eat animals "with cloven hoofs that chew the cud" - for safety. (Apparently this means that camel meat for example isn't kosher to Jews - but the Arabs couldn't get along without it, so Muslims kept the ban on pig meat but will eat almost anything else as long as it's halal-slaughtered. )

? I heard that in Algeria people used to eat wild boar, which is actually considered 'halal' if it's been hunted and slaughtered in the approved manner? so, when is a pig not a pig?


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## Kameron (Sep 27, 2005)

Sod undercooked. Beef tastes great completely uncooked. While I'm not a fan of  Beef Tartare I love beef Carpaccio and a nice steak needs about 45 seconds cooking time.


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## Bob_the_lost (Sep 27, 2005)

Kameron said:
			
		

> Sod undercooked. Beef tastes great completely uncooked. While I'm not a fan of  Beef Tartare I love beef Carpaccio and a nice steak needs about 45 seconds cooking time.


 "Wipe it's arse and walk it past the fire" eh?


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## 1927 (Sep 27, 2005)

tobyjug said:
			
		

> (All mince should be thoroughly cooked whatever animal it came from)



Beef tartare?


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## guinnessdrinker (Sep 27, 2005)

tobyjug said:
			
		

> Much seafood can in fact be eaten raw as long as it is not caught near a sewage outlet.



or a nuclear power station.


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## Bob_the_lost (Sep 27, 2005)

guinnessdrinker said:
			
		

> or a nuclear power station.


 I doubt that's going to improve after cooking.


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## guinnessdrinker (Sep 27, 2005)

Bob_the_lost said:
			
		

> I doubt that's going to improve after cooking.



most definitely no improvement  the point is that seafood like mussels for instance are filter feeders...


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## Dandred (Sep 27, 2005)

So, no one knows why beef doesn't contain harmful bacteria


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## Kameron (Sep 27, 2005)

Dandred said:
			
		

> So, no one knows why beef doesn't contain harmful bacteria


Because it has multiple stomachs the cows digestive system is more effective at removing parasites from it being than say a pig. I think that is the best answer that you are going to get I'm afraid.


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## tobyjug (Sep 27, 2005)

Dandred said:
			
		

> So, no one knows why beef doesn't contain harmful bacteria



It isn't case of containing harmful bacteria. Most food poisoning from meat is due to contamination due to bad hygeine in the abbatoir, butchers or kitchen.


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## Callie (Sep 27, 2005)

trabuquera said:
			
		

> Beef doesn't have the pork or chicken parasites. If it's reasonably fresh there's nothing wrong with cooking it rare. and it's delish that way. so that's why.




Beef doesnt contain chicken or pork parasites, it does contain beef parasites though  eg Taenia saginata

If you think about an animal for example a human - we have bacteria all over our bodies - they live happily on our skin and up our bums in great numbers, the same can be said for other animals eg cows Bacteria do not live in muscle tissue, unless you have a serious infection. Most tissue inside the body is bacteria free. When you cut open or cut up an animal there is the potential for bacteria to contaminate the flesh/meat as tobyjug has mentioned.

Animals like chickens may carry Salmonella without it causing any harm to them. When we kill and prepare chickens for dinner there is a chance the meat will become contaminated with Salmonella - therefore making it risky to eat undercooked and meaning that care should be taken when handling uncooked chicken.

Beef is a big old beasty so perhaps the risks of contaminating a piece of steak with bacteria that live on the cow is reduced because the steak is less likely to be exposed during processing - youd probably have to ask a butcher about that one!

and I wont mention BSE


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## Callie (Sep 27, 2005)

Kameron said:
			
		

> Because it has multiple stomachs the cows digestive system is more effective at removing parasites from it being than say a pig. I think that is the best answer that you are going to get I'm afraid.




got a link for that?  beefy cows still get parasites  and its not _really_ intestinal parasites in terms of worms that make you ill (as in vomiting and diarrhoea) - wormys tend to sit in your gut happily eating your dinner, its mostly bacteria that are associated with food bourne illness/food poisoning which I think is what the OP is asking about.


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## Sasaferrato (Oct 2, 2005)

Dandred said:
			
		

> If you read my post properly you will see that I said I already understand about the bacteria in pork poultry and sea food.
> 
> The queston was why is it that beef doesn't have the "parasites" that poutry and pork do have.




Why do you get the common cold but your dog doesn't?


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## laptop (Oct 2, 2005)

Dandred said:
			
		

> So, no one knows why beef doesn't contain harmful bacteria



There are two separate questions: bacteria and parasites.

Beef can, as noted, contain bacteria from contamination after slaughter. But not if it's handled right.

I'd be guessing that cows and sheep are less susceptible to parasites than, say, pigs due to their exclusively vegetarian diet. 

The lifecycles of the worms that infest pigs depend on their propensity to eat absolutely anything - and some depend on humans' similar propensity as well.


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## Louloubelle (Oct 2, 2005)

you can get parasitess from undercooked beef and lamb but they're not as dangerous as parasites from pork.

Humans and pork share liver fluke and I think some other parasites that will make you very ill indeed.  In the UK these are now rare but I still wouldn't risk it.

I once read that something like 70% of french people have some kind of worms or parasites because of their love of rare meat.  

I love rare and raw steak myself and once had a horendous 48 hour episode of food poisoning after eating rare filet steak at a reasturant.


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## sheothebudworths (Oct 2, 2005)

chegrimandi said:
			
		

> is rarish lamb ok? I've always thought it is.....?



Yes


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## Alf Klein (Oct 2, 2005)

Isn't it the case that pork is prone to parasites because pigs eat thier own shit? 

Sea food, and that means shell fish I think, not things that are made into sushi, are also foul feeders.  Isn't this tied up with kosherness? Was that not some early food hygine system? 

Raw fish, is safe 'cause they don't eat shit that contains parasites and fish deseases don't transfer to peolple.

Sounds reasonable to me


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## Callie (Oct 2, 2005)

Fish have parasites too and humans can pick them up.


There are lots of parasites that have an animals eg fish or pig as one host in their lifecycle and humans as another host.


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## mojojojo (Nov 18, 2011)

I love how no one has picked up on the reply saying that pigs carry trichmanosis lol it is an std, pigs carry trichinosis!


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## zenie (Nov 18, 2011)

great bump


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 18, 2011)

I love how this is a thread from two thousand and bloody five.

eta: in case it wasn't clear, I don't actually love that.


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## Kanda (Nov 18, 2011)

Moody fucker


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## Riklet (Nov 18, 2011)

SInce this is a serious 'days gone by' thread it seems only appropriate to mention I think i am still traumatised by a ferry journey years back where I spent the entire night emptying my body in every way after some dodgy seafood in Brittany the night before.  Jesus.  Never had owt like that from meat, caveman points +1


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## joustmaster (Nov 18, 2011)

mojojojo said:


> I love how no one has picked up on the reply saying that pigs carry trichmanosis lol it is an std, pigs carry trichinosis!


Were you searching for pig std's?


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## DaveCinzano (Nov 18, 2011)

In a way, we are all searching for pig STDs.


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## smartalec44 (Jul 11, 2012)

Has anyone seen the movie "Fast Food Nation" which exposes the slaughterhouse practices of employing illegal Mexicans in the Colorado meat packing plants with very little experience or skill in the gutting process ,leaving about 78% of the beef with fecal bateria from the cows. Completely cooking the beef does destroy the bacteria but I wouldn't trust eating rare cooked beef after seeing that movie. In fact, I will probably not eat any fastfood hamburgers or filet mignon for along time to come. I don't relish eating sh*t burgers.


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## pogofish (Jul 12, 2012)

smartalec44 said:


> Has anyone seen the movie "Fast Food Nation" which exposes the slaughterhouse practices of employing illegal Mexicans in the Colorado meat packing plants with very little experience or skill in the gutting process ,leaving about 78% of the beef with fecal bateria from the cows. Completely cooking the beef does destroy the bacteria but I wouldn't trust eating rare cooked beef after seeing that movie. In fact, I will probably not eat any fastfood hamburgers or filet mignon for along time to come. I don't relish eating sh*t burgers.


 
Why not just look at a few of the *many* previous threads discussing/referencing both the book and the film for your answer?


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## Santino (Jul 12, 2012)

pogofish said:


> Why not just look at a few of the *many* previous threads discussing/referencing both the book and the film for your answer?


Reviving a thread from 2005 not good enough for you?


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## pogofish (Jul 12, 2012)

There are *ten whole pages* of results for "Fast Food Nation" - So no, its not like that poster didn't have their pick of more appropriate threads!


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## cesare (Jul 12, 2012)

pogofish said:


> There are *ten whole pages* of results for "Fast Food Nation" - So no, its not like that poster didn't have their pick of more appropriate threads!



Well if they're going to make their first post somewhere, they might as well make it on a current one.


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## pogofish (Jul 12, 2012)

And if it is their first post, the posting conditions they just agreed to must be very fresh in their mind, no?


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## cesare (Jul 12, 2012)

pogofish said:


> And if its their first post, the posting conditions they just agreed to must be very fresh in their mind, no?



I don't know if posting conditions are made that clear when first signing up. How does it work on these new boards then?


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## pogofish (Jul 12, 2012)

They are and a new member makes a clear and unequivocal agreement to having read them.

BTW - Welcome to Urban smartalec44!


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## cesare (Jul 12, 2012)

I bet it's just a check box or some such rather than being directed straight to the FAQs with an accept/decline terms. And anyway, they'd would have had more stick for bumping a really old thread with their first post than just adding a post to one that had already been bumped. I think you're being a bit mean.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2012)

pogofish said:


> There are *ten whole pages* of results for "Fast Food Nation" - So no, its not like that poster didn't have their pick of more appropriate threads!



There's no winning with you. Start an already discussed topic - you moan. Resurrect an already discussed topic - you moan that it isn't the right one to be bumped.


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## Cid (Jul 12, 2012)

Riklet said:


> SInce this is a serious 'days gone by' thread it seems only appropriate to mention I think i am still traumatised by a ferry journey years back where I spent the entire night emptying my body in every way after some dodgy seafood in Brittany the night before. Jesus. Never had owt like that from meat, caveman points +1


 
_Actually_ many cavemen would have foraged along the sea shore and seafood would have been an important component of their diet.


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## The Octagon (Jul 12, 2012)

I've often wondered Pogo, what do you get out of this (informing of repeated threads)? Has it already been discussed in a past thread?

I daren't start a new one in case


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## stuff_it (Jul 12, 2012)

chegrimandi said:


> is rarish lamb ok? I've always thought it is.....?


Where did BSE come from?


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## pogofish (Jul 12, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> Has it already been discussed in a past thread?


 
A few, yes.


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## smartalec44 (Jul 13, 2012)

I am sorry for breathing. I just watched "Fast Food Nation,2006" googling the subject matter and this thread came up. I have never been on an75.net/forums and didn't know that I had to research every freakin thread on here to see whether there was a more current thread or not. Go back to eating your mad cow disease burgers.


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## smartalec44 (Jul 13, 2012)

@Pogofish Why are you viewing and posting on an old 11-18-2011 thread anyway? I must have been generically googling about fecal bacteria in beef and not specifically about  Fast Food Nation.


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## cesare (Jul 14, 2012)

Welcome smartalec


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## Citizen66 (Jul 14, 2012)

smartalec44 said:


> @Pogofish Why are you viewing and posting on an old 11-18-2011 thread anyway? I must have been generically googling about fecal bacteria in beef and not specifically about  Fast Food Nation.



Because it's something that irks him so he has become annoying and repetitive to get revenge. He's been here too long (like most of us) has too much time on his hands (ditto) has read everything that can possibly ever be known on every subject matter and so busies himself policing how everyone else conducts themselves. Actually, I share his view that on some subjexts one thread containing all the info is preferable to ten million you have to source but that isn't without problems either. Some people don't realise it's been bumped and so start debating with posters who no longer post (and in at least one case the poster had since died) and then you get the people who start posting up zombie resurrection thread images, the moaners who are the polar opposite of pogo, as it were.


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## stuff_it (Jul 14, 2012)

Welcome smartalec, have a hobnob. AFAK it's pretty hard to get food poisoning off a hobnob.


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## golightly (Jul 14, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Where did BSE come from?


 
It's what makes us human; the willingness to eat stuff that might kill us. 

Fugu

I think I'd prefer death by poison fish than slowly losing my mind after eating prion-laden beef, mind you.


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## stuff_it (Jul 14, 2012)

golightly said:


> It's what makes us human; the willingness to eat stuff that might kill us.
> 
> Fugu
> 
> I think I'd prefer death by poison fish than slowly losing my mind after eating prion-laden beef, mind you.


That's not what I meant, I was pointing out that the prions originally came from feeding sheep to cattle, they are full of diseases (not that cooking deals with prions).


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## Citizen66 (Jul 14, 2012)

It's scrapie in sheep, innit.


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## stuff_it (Jul 14, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> It's scrapie in sheep, innit.


 
*scarpie*


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## golightly (Jul 14, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> That's not what I meant, I was pointing out that the prions originally came from feeding sheep to cattle, they are full of diseases (not that cooking deals with prions).


 
I knew what you meant.


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## smartalec44 (Jul 14, 2012)

Before the forums on MySpace were closed down, the rules of posting besides sticking to the topic and proper conduct, applied to starting or creating new threads. Basically, one had to make a cursory investigation to make sure a similar thread didn't already exist. But as far as posting on an already existing thread, I know of no such nonsense. If the thread is too old, the posting mechanism is disabled.


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## Lock&Light (Jul 14, 2012)

If a comment is relevant to the thread then I don't see what it matters as to how old that thread is.


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