# Language classes - intermittent attendance



## mattie (Aug 30, 2012)

I appreciate we've been round this before, but I'm keen to see what people's views are of how classroom-based courses stack up against home-learning. I'm particularly keen to hear how people have coped with classroom-based if they've missed a class or two, as the pace of the lessons are obviously that of the class and not necessarily the individual.

Insight from tutors - I realise there are a fair few posting here - also greatly appreciated.

I ask as I need to register now for a French language class in Bath if I' going to do it, but the nature of my job means that I may have a few nights away on a pretty unscheduled basis per week and I can't be sure of making the classes.

I worry that partial attendance will be pointless from my perspective and also disruptive to the class.

I could take a lower level of class- I'm at GCSE level but rusty - in order to reinforce basics whilst giving time to catch up from missed classes, but I'm not sure I'd have motivation or would benefit.  It may just be easier to try home-working, but I'm at the stage where speaking the language is important - generally, I struggle to 'process' the language rather than comprehend it - and I'm not sure I get that from a book or CD.

I hesitate to ask the tutors for the course I'm interested in, as it's not exactly going to start on right foot.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 30, 2012)

I don't see a problem asking the tutors - at least you'd be being honest and it would be better than signing up and then not showing up. Regular tutors on evening classes in any subject are going to know that people will miss classes anyway.


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## MrSki (Aug 30, 2012)

Why not find a French person in Bath who wants to improve their English & you can help each other out. Would give you a more flexible way to catch up from missing classes & works out a lot cheaper too.


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## Lo Siento. (Aug 30, 2012)

home learning is, at best, a nice supplement to classroom based learning. I've never met anyone who speaks a language because they learnt it at home. The whole of that industry is full of shysters peddling bullshit. Equally I'm sceptical about language exchanges. They're a nice extra to classes, but it's difficult to do them regularly enough to make it worthwhile.

IMO if you expect to learn and improve your language to a decent standard, you need 3 hours a week tuition, to go 90% of the time, and do the homework and work on it at home.

(that's not to say you can't get to an elementary level and enjoy a few classes now and then, but that's not going to get you much further than basic communication)


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## mattie (Aug 30, 2012)

Expectation of the courses I'm looking at is 2 hour session once a week with 2 hour homework.  It's the 90% attendance which is going to test me.

I'd expect to revisit general grammar as an addition to this.

I know people who have met foreign language speakers keen to learn English for reciprocal chatting, but my understanding is that you need to be quite advanced for it not to be a bit of a waste - you're finessing rather than learning - and although I need to be listening and speaking I'm not yet competent enough to simply converse with no structure.


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## mattie (Aug 30, 2012)

So, the question I suppose is whether I can actually make sufficient classes for it to be worthwhile or whether I simply accept the compromise that is home learning - with all its attendant problems re motivation and effectiveness.

eta:  I've emailed the course centre to ask their advice, see what they have to say.  I'm sure many people would be in the same boat as me.


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## weltweit (Aug 30, 2012)

I would take the evening classes and attend as much as I could.

Nothing beats immersion but if that is not possbile, classes are next best I think.


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## Mr Smin (Aug 30, 2012)

chatroulette.fr ?


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## _pH_ (Aug 30, 2012)

I had an interview at City Lit last week for French - I'm in the same boat as I work shifts and could at most attend 8 out of the 12 evenings for next term. The tutor said I should consider it anyway as anything is better than nothing and I could ask for extra homework (and it's only a tenner a week). But I also have an offer through someone at work for conversational lessons with a native French speaker on a more informal basis, so I might do that instead (or as well).

But I'm getting on alright on my own by reading French news websites (e.g. L'Express, Le Monde, Le Figaro with this open in another tab for new vocab), reading French novels, a bit of grammar bashing from books and websites (this is a great website for grammar) and listening to the radio online - am listening to FranceInfo right now, which has really helped with understanding spoken French. I do all this for a least an hour or so each day as that's the only way to improve. And I try and get to France as often as possible - a few days in Paris or even a day trip to Calais are great for building confidence in conversational French. My main weakness is expressing myself in French - I talk to myself en français to practice but I don't have anyone to correct my mistakes which is why classes might be helpful. I did French to A-Level but that was years ago, but I think I've come a long way since I started again in January (the City Lit tutor judged me at Level 3 Higher out of 5 levels, which is not bad at all), and that's through studying alone.


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## Numbers (Aug 30, 2012)

I recently done a level 1 French course with Alliance Francaise, 2 x 1 hour lessons a week, 32 hours in total.  I missed a few lessons but as it was work I was able to get the homework and lesson notes from a colleague, so I found if I done 2 hours at home on my own to make up for the lost hour I was fine.  

Probably ever other day I also spent (soon to start again) time reading a French for Dummies book + bought a dual language book of Charles Baudelaire's Les Fleurs Du Mal which I had a read of every day, I even in the early stages learnt the Etre song from Youtube 

I can now read and write French not too shabbily and am starting level 2 soon, but I get all nervous and am shit if I try and speak it.  I'm in no hurry tho' and from here on in (rest of my life) I'm gonna learn it as best I can.


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## Quartz (Aug 31, 2012)

Do differentiate between literate French and conversational French. In the former you have time to think and check and exposure to a wider vocabulary; in the latter you don't have time to think but can get away with a very restricted vocabulary. I can still write reasonably well, but my oral skills are very rusty.

You sound as if you're at the stage where a holiday in France off the beaten track - or out of season - would be better if you can afford it. Pick a theme you'll enjoy (e.g. chateaux of the Loire or wine-tasting) and go and get stuck in.  They'll try to speak to you in English at first, of course, but if you explain that you're there to learn French, IME they'll fall over backwards to help you.


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## Onket (Aug 31, 2012)

If you do the course, make sure you also do work at home. I did a Spanish course a couple of years ago, went to every session (twice a week), didn't bother do anything outside of the classroom, and I really struggled.


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## weltweit (Aug 31, 2012)

When I was learning German I listenned to German radio a lot. Basically tried to immerse myself as much as possible.


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## Greebo (Aug 31, 2012)

weltweit said:


> When I was learning German I listenned to German radio a lot. Basically tried to immerse myself as much as possible.


Any exposure to the language will help, and it's so much easier to get hold of audiobooks and dvds in whichever language you're trying to learn than it used to be.  Even if you don't understand every word, at least it gives you a better idea of how the language sounds and what you should be aiming for.


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## gentlegreen (Aug 31, 2012)

I listen to French radio and watch French TV - sporadically.
What I need is someone to Skype with as I can't learn from books any more - apart from occasionally looking-up a grammar point.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 15, 2012)

Sammy77 said:


> I'm learning French too. I did register on a course but then when I couldn't attend, I would struggle to catch up as the classes were very structured. I picked up alot of grammer but now I find that speaking is a problem. Like _pH_, I read these news sites as well. L'Spam, Le Spam. I need to practice speaking to build my confidence, I've been speaking to natives from France using www.easyspam.com/ . It's great because at least I pick up on the sounds...
> 
> I hope this helps.


Up your hole, sideways.


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## Epona (Dec 16, 2012)

I always thought I was shit at languages (although passed my French and German O Levels with a grade C in each) but travelling has taught me that I actually have a bit of a previously undiscovered knack for picking up languages, and although I wouldn't be able to manage an exam in them, I am fairly decent at conversational Romanian, Greek, and Arabic (Egyptian), bit of Italian, bit of Spanish - and can manage IRL far better in those languages than the ones I was taught in a formal setting. I actually think that a week away somewhere would leave me more proficient in a language than 2 years of formal teaching, based on my experience so far.

It does depend on your method of learning though, my 'learning style' is pretty much described as "break something then learn how it works by trying to put it back together", so in terms of languages immersion is pretty much the only way I can learn, because I need some sort of context and 'trying to get by' works really really well for me and I pick up stuff quickly. Tapes, videos, and formal classroom settings I find utterly useless.


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## october_lost (Feb 25, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> home learning is, at best, a nice supplement to classroom based learning. I've never met anyone who speaks a language because they learnt it at home. The whole of that industry is full of shysters peddling bullshit. Equally I'm sceptical about language exchanges. They're a nice extra to classes, but it's difficult to do them regularly enough to make it worthwhile.
> 
> IMO if you expect to learn and improve your language to a decent standard, you need 3 hours a week tuition, to go 90% of the time, and do the homework and work on it at home.
> 
> (that's not to say you can't get to an elementary level and enjoy a few classes now and then, but that's not going to get you much further than basic communication)


Out of interest, how far can you back this up?

Tuition is by no means cheap...


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## Lo Siento. (Feb 26, 2013)

october_lost said:


> Out of interest, how far can you back this up?
> 
> Tuition is by no means cheap...


Well, I've never done a full-on investigation or anything, but I've a lot of experience with language learners, teaching languages and learning languages. In half a decade of teaching I've never met anyone with a good level of English who told me "I mainly learned English through language exchanges and learn at home kits" ...

(I know tuition isn't cheap, but it's basically the only way I've ever seen people significantly improve their language level - excepting living there or having a partner who speaks it)


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## october_lost (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for this. It's interesting to at least note.


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## Lo Siento. (Feb 26, 2013)

october_lost said:


> Thanks for this. It's interesting to at least note.


one of my pet hates about the industry is its total lack of honesty about what it's selling, and the way in which it lets so many people waste their money without having any explanation of what learning a language actually entails...


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