# Serious sectarianism between Android and Apple users in the future???.



## Greebozz (Jul 18, 2011)

I don't know if people have heard, but Apple have won a major victory against HTC over copyright infringement.  That could see a ban on all HTC phones being sold in America.

Obviously there is a lot of hype surrounding this story and there will be wrangles and appeals and it will turn out to be pretty minor.  But it still seems to be a very significant victory for Apple.

As a fan of android and HTC my dislike for Apple is really growing.  I'm just observing the phenomenon within myself, and laughing at myself because of it.  It shocked me what an easy step it would be to victimise Apple users, and vice versa Apple users victimising those using android devices.


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## c01642 (Jul 18, 2011)

Its not just Apple though, Google have ripped off everyone's patents to produce an operating system and then left it to the handset manufacturers to deal with it. Microsoft have an agreement with HTC and a few other smaller companies to pay royalties on every andriod device sold. I dont think you can blame Apple here.

Apple are also reported to be paying Nokia for ripping them off.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jun/14/apple-nokia-patent-case


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## editor (Jul 18, 2011)

c01642 said:


> Its not just Apple though, Google have ripped off everyone's patents to produce an operating system and then left it to the handset manufacturers to deal with it. Microsoft have an agreement with HTC and a few other smaller companies to pay royalties on every andriod device sold. I dont think you can blame Apple here.


Are you an Apple user by any chance?


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## c01642 (Jul 18, 2011)

Nope, Window smobile 6.5, free to use company phone. Never been in to the whole Apple love in.


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## editor (Jul 18, 2011)

c01642 said:


> Nope, Window smobile 6.5, free to use company phone. Never been in to the whole Apple love in.


I'm just curious why you're emphatically insisting that "Google have ripped off everyone's patents" when the last iOS update clearly shows some very noticeable 'inspiration' from Android/webOS/WM in places.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 18, 2011)

"in the future"?


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## Hocus Eye. (Jul 18, 2011)

Android is a version of Linux which is opensource software. Google haven't ripped off any patents there. As for HTC and America, it is one of those 'look and feel' cases which only seem to take place in the computer world and is based on such nebulous aspects as having 'rounded corners' on smartphones that compete with the ipod.

Imaging if the same applied to motor cars, makers would have to forego the standard positioning of the pedals or having aerodynamic body shapes. Round wheels might also be brought into question. 

Of course the original 'look and feel' case was that of Apple trying to stop Windows. Who paid whom how much over that one?


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## DotCommunist (Jul 18, 2011)

Jobs Order marches to be held yearly , trespassing on HTC users ghettos.


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## Crispy (Jul 18, 2011)

Software/tech patents are not about who invented what, but just a means of extracting license fees from rival companies. Whoever won this case has no real claim to be the true innovator.


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## editor (Jul 18, 2011)

It's shit the way that a large chunk of the industry has become all about stifling competition through the courts rather than leading by innovation, with massive corporates swallowing up smaller companies for their patents, and then using them to block/extract cash from their rivals. 

Apple are certainly one of the worst, but they're *all *fucking at it.


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## c01642 (Jul 18, 2011)

I just think theres a lot of patents for the use of phones that companies have cross licensing agreements to use,Google seem to have ignored this and left it down to the handset manufacturers to deal with. I agree about Apple copying other features, i just dont see google as being saints in the whole business.


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## Greebozz (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm very interested, because it's the first time I've ever had this mindset.  It's given me a small understanding of hatred between religious groups.

My sister recently bought an Asus transformer tablet.  And I just realised, it would have been a huge insult if she had got An Apple tablet instead.  It would have been like marrying outside the faith to a "heathen". lol


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 18, 2011)

Apple seem to be filing patents for everything, and some of it seems very dubious in terms of what I understand to be original inventions and intellectual property.

Sometimes it just looks like they think up the slightest design tweek and file patents for them claiming them as some kind of new invention which then stifles anyone making an improvement to their own hardware in a similar vein (regardless of whether they're seeking to copy apple or not).


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## xenon (Jul 18, 2011)

Greebozz said:


> I'm very interested, because it's the first time I've ever had this mindset.  It's given me a small understanding of hatred between religious groups.
> 
> My sister recently bought an Asus transformer tablet.  And I just realised, it would have been a huge insult if she had got An Apple tablet instead.  It would have been like marrying outside the faith to a "heathen". lol


 

Really?

pfft

That's a bit odd.

I use Apple so far as I have an Ipod Touch. May get an Iphone next upgrade. may go Android. (Mobile's a Nokia.) I dont' think most people care much beyond a bit of banter, what OS their friend or family  member's phone runs.

Besides, all the hardware's put together by cheap labour with the rare components  having been soursed in some very dubiously run parts of the world.


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## c01642 (Jul 18, 2011)

I had a galaxy S and was rather sad when the screen smashed although it has crap exchange support but that was a bonus, i dont care what phone i have as long as it makes calls. I just dont agree that google can create a so called open source phone OS and then leave it to the handset maufacturers to sort out. The basic OS may be open source but some of the technologies in it are clearly not.


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## editor (Jul 18, 2011)

You know when the patent system has gone wrong when companies start claiming ownership for things like rows of onscreen icons and rounded corners.


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 18, 2011)

editor said:


> You know when the patent system has gone wrong when companies start claiming ownership for things like rows of onscreen icons and rounded corners.


 
Exactly my point. Endless filing of patent applications for the most general of obvious stuff that no one company has the right to be claiming 'ownership' of. Much like all the posturing over the 'App store' trademark.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2011)

ultimately it's possible because the american patent law is so ridiculious and needs a major overhaul, as does the system of being able to file in a favourable state which has enacted legislation which is going to benefit your case.

About time that the federalised law was standardised with local laws if they are to in anyway in a post China world going to keep pace with things...


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## editor (Jul 19, 2011)

Another day another patent troll... Apple have just failed to stop Kodak selling their cameras in the US but are reportedly working hard to nobble HTC's phones in America.


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## elbows (Jul 19, 2011)

The term patent troll tends to be reserved for entities which don't make use of the patents themselves by actually making a product, rather they make their money harassing others.


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## Sunray (Jul 19, 2011)

editor said:


> You know when the patent system has gone wrong when companies start claiming ownership for things like rows of onscreen icons and rounded corners.



In the olden day when graphics cards were shit and you had to do the cursor in software, XOR (the logical operator) is used to allow you to put a cursor on the screen and then subsequently take it off again without damaging what was under the cursor became a patent long after people use the technique.

Its long been a stupid thing to do because its essentially patenting a mathematical formula.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/www/chapter2_105.html


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## editor (Jul 19, 2011)

Google are jumping in to defend HTC against Apple's claims. 


> Schmidt, speaking at a Google mobile conference in Tokyo today, expressed confidence that HTC will ultimately prevail over Apple, ZDNet Asia reports.
> "We have seen an explosion of Android devices entering the market and, because of our successes, competitors are responding with lawsuits as they cannot respond through innovations," he said. "I'm not too worried about this."
> When asked about potentially providing financial support should HTC lose, Schmidt said: "We will make sure they don't lose, then."


http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20080620-94/googles-schmidt-vows-to-defend-htc/


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## lobster (Jul 19, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Android is a version of Linux which is opensource software.



Google forked the linux kernel for android . The UI is completely their own. Android 3x source code is not available...  
Netflix,Adobe AIR , AutoCad  application all exist on Android but not linux. Android apps are all based on a java fork, so you cannot just any any app that runs on desktop ubuntu and run it on android.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 19, 2011)

Greebozz said:


> I don't know if people have heard, but Apple have won a major victory against HTC over copyright infringement.  That could see a ban on all HTC phones being sold in America.
> 
> Obviously there is a lot of hype surrounding this story and there will be wrangles and appeals and it will turn out to be pretty minor.  But it still seems to be a very significant victory for Apple.
> 
> As a fan of android and HTC my dislike for Apple is really growing.  I'm just observing the phenomenon within myself, and laughing at myself because of it.  It shocked me what an easy step it would be to victimise Apple users, and vice versa Apple users victimising those using android devices.


 
It's a great business move for Apple but a shit one for consumers...only a complete idiot would waste their time siding with one corporation over another.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 19, 2011)

Greebozz said:


> I'm very interested, because it's the first time I've ever had this mindset.  It's given me a small understanding of hatred between religious groups.
> 
> My sister recently bought an Asus transformer tablet.  And I just realised, it would have been a huge insult if she had got An Apple tablet instead.  It would have been like marrying outside the faith to a "heathen". lol


 
I've never got this...even back in the day with the whole snes vs mega drive thing it used to puzzle me. Don't get why people are so naive and desperate to defend their purchase. It's not like it's the last one they'll make...


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## Greebozz (Jul 20, 2011)

Do you own a smartphone? Trust me you will soon be a troo beleever


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## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

This user response is actually far more insightful than the actual original article:



> I would never trade my iPhone for my wife's Droid, but, honestly, Apple's lawsuits here are patently absurd (pun intended). The big ones vs HTC are:
> 
> - "System and method for performing an action on a structure in computer-generated data."
> - "Real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data."
> ...


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## Greebozz (Jul 20, 2011)

Was hoping to have a discussion about tribal loyalty of gadget brands, obviously the topic is a dead duck, oh well.


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## xenon (Jul 20, 2011)

^ Because no one's as tribal as you make out. Least, no one worth listening too. You have to be a total prat to take your choice of consumer product, so seriously you'd fall out with a friend or family member over it. As I say, if you're gonna get het up over it. Why not about the conditions of workers making the stuff. Or the disfunctional chaotic countries where the raw elements are saurced.

I mean, I don't do much about the latter TBH. I use consumer electronics much as the next man. But when i used to argue with Atari ST owners, as an Amiga owner, it was mostly banter and the disproportunate bluster of a 16 YO boy.


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## elbows (Jul 20, 2011)

xenon said:


> I mean, I don't do much about the latter TBH. I use consumer electronics much as the next man. But when i used to argue with Atari ST owners, as an Amiga owner, it was mostly banter and the disproportunate bluster of a 16 YO boy.


 
Yes. Also the same with ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 etc when I was an even younger age. Now we have the internet so we can keep some playground antics with us throughout our adult lives 

The media also love this shit, because it can generate lively feedback and fill column inches. The old home computer magazine writers just loved to have digs at competing platforms, and their readership were largely on board with such antics.


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## Crispy (Jul 20, 2011)

I hate fanboism. It's boring and makes it impossible to actually talk about relative differences between platforms/products. As soon as you even hint that one way might actually be better or worse than another, your point gets jumped on as proof of your hate for the other 'side' or as an example of why all XYZ lovers are dicks.


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## xenon (Jul 20, 2011)

Yep, agree with Crispy. The banter is fine. When it's intelegently or humerously presented makes good copy.   but when the brand loyalty gets to the point it clouds peple's judgement over making a comparison it's pointless. And boring.


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## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

xenon said:


> Yep, agree with Crispy. The banter is fine. When it's intelegently or humerously presented makes good copy.   but when the brand loyalty gets to the point it clouds peple's judgement over making a comparison it's pointless. And boring.


I find some fanboism really quite unsettling. I'll happily switch makes and OSs to suit whatever fits my needs best (I've had three mobile OSs in the 18 months), but some people go fucking mental if you criticise any element of Their Beloved Company. 

It's unhealthy, particularly when they're jumping to the defence of multi billion corporates, some of whom have a fairly dire environmental/workers rights record. 

There is one company which is universally recognised as heaving the most rabid of fanbois and I find them utterly depressing to deal with. It's a bit like trying to argue with Godsquadders on a mission. Thankfully, the full-on fanbois are fairly rare creatures.


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## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

Oh, and I really hate tech smugness most of all. You know, that sneery "my expensive gadget is sooooo much better than your nasty cheapo gadget" kind of thing.

I appreciate high quality items, but that whole waving them around in people's faces thing does rather get my goat.


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## xenon (Jul 20, 2011)

editor said:


> I find some fanboism really quite unsettling. I'll happily switch makes and OSs to suit whatever fits my needs best (I've had three mobile OSs in the 18 months), but some people go fucking mental if you criticise any element of Their Beloved Company.
> 
> It's unhealthy, particularly when they're jumping to the defence of multi billion corporates, some of whom have a fairly dire environmental/workers rights record.
> 
> There is one company which is universally recognised as heaving the most rabid of fanbois and I find them utterly depressing to deal with. It's a bit like trying to argue with Godsquadders on a mission. Thankfully, the full-on fanbois are fairly rare creatures.


 

Yep. I use Windows. Plan to try Ubuntu at some point...

Incidentaly, sort of tying both subjects together, patents and choice of mobile platform. As I've mentioned few times on here, I use screen reading software. Currently use a Nokia with Talx. Regular T9 keypad. However, I can use an Ipod Touch with the Voiceover facility. Apple have solved the problem of being able to use a touch screen with no sight, just audio feedback really well. (It may be another developers idea, they've bought, Touch Works rings a bell,) I wonder though with reference to patents, whether a similar method can be implimented in Android. At the moment, a few Android phones can be made accessable with screen reader apps but you have to have a physical keypad. It's a great shame if no one can solve the touch screen issue on Android platforms due to the technique being too tightly patented.

Though TBH, I don't know if that's why it hasn't been solved or just down to technical issues, potential market not recognised or something else.


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## pinkmonkey (Jul 20, 2011)

I admire my partner for saying 'fuckitall' and sticking to his 10 year old Nokia brick phone.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 20, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I hate fanboism. It's boring and makes it impossible to actually talk about relative differences between platforms/products. As soon as you even hint that one way might actually be better or worse than another, your point gets jumped on as proof of your hate for the other 'side' or as an example of why all XYZ lovers are dicks.


 
Yep. It's pointless.


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## ovaltina (Jul 21, 2011)

In 10 years all our phones will look hopelessly outdated and silly.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> In 10 years all our phones will look hopelessly outdated and silly.


 
In ten years we wont have phones as we understand them now.


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