# Do you throw money away?



## Ponyutd (Dec 7, 2012)

Why do people throw away perfectly good money? This is just some of the decimal coinage I have found this year in the River Thames.
I suppose tourists could account for some of it...it must run in to thousands.


----------



## TitanSound (Dec 7, 2012)

No. I put it in a jar and take it down to Sainsburys once a year. My last haul netted me £230!


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 7, 2012)

The missus has counted up my change box today and has taken it down the bank. £440.  (She crashed her car a couple of days ago and the excess is £400, so it covers that at least.)


----------



## 8ball (Dec 7, 2012)

Oxfam get my coppers. Probably costs the bank a far bit to process them but I'm told Oxfam don't have to pay for this.


----------



## zenie (Dec 7, 2012)

make a wish and throw a penny in I suppose?


----------



## Firky (Dec 7, 2012)

I like to skim a tuppence.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

if you glue a few 2p's together it makes quite a nice little missile


----------



## Thimble Queen (Dec 7, 2012)

We save our small change in a box until the end of the month when we're inevitably skint! Like the idea of saving it up until thread end of the year though


----------



## Ponyutd (Dec 7, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> if you glue a few 2p's together it makes quite a nice little missile


If you want missiles, I found a full magazine of these last Friday..


----------



## TitanSound (Dec 7, 2012)

Are you some kind of eccentric diver?


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Dec 7, 2012)

I thought this thread was about people who buy bottled water


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 7, 2012)

Pfft I throw my money at things


Barmen and drug dealers mostly


----------



## Mitre10 (Dec 7, 2012)

Ponyutd said:


> Why do people throw away perfectly good money? This is just some of the decimal coinage I have found this year in the River Thames.
> I suppose tourists could account for some of it...it must run in to thousands.


 


Are you a mudlark


----------



## Ponyutd (Dec 7, 2012)

Yes.


----------



## souljacker (Dec 7, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> Are you some kind of eccentric diver?




I reckon pony has his own dredger.


----------



## clicker (Dec 7, 2012)

What else have you found and have you got photographs....I'm all geared up now for mudlarking by proxy. Love ambling amongst the thames bank especially near tower bridge, full of bones and oyster shells, but never found anything else....even the apparently ubiqutous clay pipe......not a sausage.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 7, 2012)

I occasionally throw the odd coin away if I am going around with a bin bag pickling all the crap up before I hoover, and the coin jar is on the other side of the house.


----------



## Mapped (Dec 7, 2012)

I leave all my shrapnel on surfaces at home and my Mrs collects it all up and spends it on her lunches.


----------



## harpo (Dec 7, 2012)

The OH feeds all his change into the change pot from 20p downwards.  I rinse it of 10ps and 20ps but put in everything from 5p downwards myself.  When it's full I bung it through a coinstar.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 7, 2012)

zenie said:


> make a wish and throw a penny in I suppose?


 
Pony's stolen all those wishes  .


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 7, 2012)

Does anyone still bag their change and take it to the bank, or are you all happy to give 10% or whatever away to a machine because you can't be arsed?


----------



## alfajobrob (Dec 7, 2012)

Ponyutd said:


> Yes.


 
Where can you join up for this mudlarking malarkey?


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Dec 7, 2012)

Yelkcub said:


> The missus has counted up my change box today and has taken it down the bank. £440.  (She crashed her car a couple of days ago and the excess is £400, so it covers that at least.)


That must have been a very heavy load to carry. The last time I had a load of change I took it to the Sainsburys machine and it came to about £11. That was fairly heavy in a plastic carrier bag in my rucksack.


----------



## zenie (Dec 7, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Does anyone still bag their change and take it to the bank, or are you all happy to give 10% or whatever away to a machine because you can't be arsed?


 
I do - but I quite like counting it all


----------



## Ponyutd (Dec 7, 2012)

alfajobrob said:


> Where can you join up for this mudlarking malarkey?


Port of London for a three year permit. Around £50 It's just gone up.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 7, 2012)

depends how skint I am, if I'm on lean lean times I'll countit


----------



## alfajobrob (Dec 7, 2012)

Ponyutd said:


> Port of London for a three year permit. Around £50 It's just gone up.


 
Ok, have you got a specialist mudlarking website you use....for tide times, sites checked etc...or is it a personal thing?


----------



## Ponyutd (Dec 7, 2012)

Port of London site has tide times. The river throws up stuff everyday. You can find nothing one day, go back to exactly the same spot and pick something up.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 7, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> That must have been a very heavy load to carry. The last time I had a load of change I took it to the Sainsburys machine and it came to about £11. That was fairly heavy in a plastic carrier bag in my rucksack.


Yeah, I had a steward's inquiry about her carrying it as she's 7 months pregnant, but she whacked it a trolley.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 7, 2012)

I've seen people throw away low denomination coins because they're too irksome to lug around.  Just fling them on the pavement.

That was before the crash, mind.  But I still saw it happen.


----------



## alfajobrob (Dec 7, 2012)

Ponyutd said:


> Port of London site has tide times. The river throws up stuff everyday. You can find nothing one day, go back to exactly the same spot and pick something up.


 
Sorry for all the questions, do you use a metal detector or is that frowned upon>?

I work on Albert Embankment and usually take a walk on the beach if the tide is out but have yet to delve below the surface....I picked up an old school nail the other day which made me inordinately happy.


----------



## Schmetterling (Dec 8, 2012)

One of the downsides of self-service tills is that there is less dropped money to be found.  I stop in the street, at tube station gates, by the ticket machines (I am revealing all the good places here) and pick up.  I spit on it three times and pocket.  At home I have my childhood piggy bank into which it goes. Once a year I count; one year it was over £80 though that included a fifty pound note and two tenners I found.  On average I find around 20 a year.  The saying is: If you don't honour the penny you do not deserve the pound.

I am aware that I have here supplied the opposite information to what you have asked but Hey Ho!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 8, 2012)

Why the heck do people have change jars?
"Oh I hate shrapnel"
"Ooh, it's too complicated"
Idiots.
Change doesn't survive in the pocket for very long, I never have laden down pockets and I have never ever ever put coppers aside.
It takes literally seconds to filter coins, how anyone could amass hundreds in a penny jar is beyond me.
Then to consider that a 'windfall' of some kind?? Even stupider to throw it away of course.
I have never even thought about it, but I think you probably just hand over the smaller change you have before you break the bigger coins.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 8, 2012)

Schmetterling said:


> One of the downsides of self-service tills is that there is less dropped money to be found. I stop in the street, at tube station gates, by the ticket machines (I am revealing all the good places here) and pick up. I spit on it three times and pocket. At home I have my childhood piggy bank into which it goes. Once a year I count; one year it was over £80 though that included a fifty pound note and two tenners I found. On average I find around 20 a year. The saying is: If you don't honour the penny you do not deserve the pound.
> 
> I am aware that I have here supplied the opposite information to what you have asked but Hey Ho!


 
Is £20 a year really worth lurking around tube stations like some sort of scavenging rodent, darting out from behind a stack of Metros to snatch furtively at a dropped fivepence?


----------



## Espresso (Dec 8, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> I've seen people throw away low denomination coins because they're too irksome to lug around. Just fling them on the pavement.
> 
> That was before the crash, mind. But I still saw it happen.


 
I saw a child do that this very morning. About eight, I'd say he was. He came out of the shop I was going in and looked at the change in his hand and picked out the coppers and chucked them on the pavement. I was absolutely gobsmacked. For two reasons, firstly where I live is a pretty skinto place and secondly, when I was a nipper finding money in the street - even a penny - was a proper RESULT!


----------



## Schmetterling (Dec 8, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Is £20 a year really worth lurking around tube stations like some sort of scavenging rodent, darting out from behind a stack of Metros to snatch furtively at a dropped fivepence?



I pick up what I see and I try to ensure I don't drop any.  And by seeing and looking I find quite a bit of money.  Better than a kick up the arse!


----------



## Voley (Dec 8, 2012)

I've got a demijohn full of change. When my cousins were younger I used to give it all to them - they could be bothered to count it, get it to a bank etc They had 300 quid out of it once.  Money's tighter for me these days (and they're now old enough to accumulate their own shrapnel) so instead of buying a ninety quid three month parking permit so I can park near work I use it to buy a daily ticket. This works out slightly pricier but it's better than it all just sitting in a jar doing fuck all. At a rough guess I'd say there's probably a hundred quid's worth in there atm.


----------



## Ponyutd (Dec 8, 2012)

alfajobrob said:


> Sorry for all the questions, do you use a metal detector or is that frowned upon>?
> 
> I work on Albert Embankment and usually take a walk on the beach if the tide is out but have yet to delve below the surface....I picked up an old school nail the other day which made me inordinately happy.


Metal detectors are far from frowned on. But you do need a particular type of detector (not cheap). It is actually illegal to dig or scrap on the Thames without a licence.
You can of course search 'eyes only'.


----------



## Athos (Dec 8, 2012)

Ponyutd said:


> If you want missiles, I found a full magazine of these last Friday..


 
I hope you didn't take it home?!


----------



## MillwallShoes (Dec 9, 2012)

Ponyutd said:


> Why do people throw away perfectly good money? This is just some of the decimal coinage I have found this year in the River Thames.
> I suppose tourists could account for some of it...it must run in to thousands.


i wondered where i dropped my change last time i was wading in the thames


----------



## Ponyutd (Dec 9, 2012)

Athos said:


> I hope you didn't take it home?!


Nope. Straight back into the middle of the river after the picture.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 9, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why the heck do people have change jars?
> "Oh I hate shrapnel"
> "Ooh, it's too complicated"
> Idiots.
> ...



You're getting odder and odder.


----------



## nogojones (Dec 10, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> I've seen people throw away low denomination coins because they're too irksome to lug around. Just fling them on the pavement.
> 
> That was before the crash, mind. But I still saw it happen.


 
Is that how the "trickle down effect" works?


----------



## ymu (Dec 10, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> You're getting odder and odder.


I think what he's trying to say is: why collect it instead of spending it?

I too struggle to understand this. I never accumulate change because I use it to buy things. If I can't make up the exact amount, I hand over shrapnel to minimise the number of coins I get back in change.

The boy used to scatter change all over the place, until he asked me to help him improve his arithmetic. One of the exercises I set him was to use change to pay for stuff. No more shrapnel.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2012)

It was more the strength of his confusion that I found odd. 

Change is a ball ache. It's a pain waiting behind someone counting up change in a shop when they're paying, and it's annoying to have in your pocket. 

I give all mine to my wife so she can take ages paying with exact change in shops.


----------



## ymu (Dec 10, 2012)

It's quicker than waiting for change. 

If you spend it, it won't be in your pockets.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2012)

Na, it's normally slower ime. There's always some slow coach counting out pennies.


----------



## TitanSound (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why the heck do people have change jars?
> "Oh I hate shrapnel"
> "Ooh, it's too complicated"
> Idiots.
> ...


 
Yeah, because having a sudden "windfall" of a couple of hundred quid doesn't come in handy when you have your bank account rinsed by some cunt.


----------



## ymu (Dec 10, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> Na, it's normally slower ime. There's always some slow coach counting out pennies.


If there's someone paying in coppers, of course it's slow - but that's the precise opposite of what I'm talking about. If you use your change to pay for stuff, you don't ever have many coppers to count.

Shop-keeper: That's £9.57
Me: <handing over a tenner> I've got the 57p
Shop-keeper: <grabs a quid out of the till and swaps it for the 57p>

Takes no time at all compared to waiting for more complicated change to be counted out and checked, saves me carrying change, and saves the shop having to get more change in.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2012)

I've already spent too long talking about this. 

Horses for courses.


----------



## zenie (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why the heck do people have change jars?
> "Oh I hate shrapnel"
> "Ooh, it's too complicated"
> Idiots.
> ...


 
Savings for a rainy day that you don't notice are gone. 

"Idiots"???  Says him of leathergate roflmao.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> It was more the strength of his confusion that I found odd.
> 
> Change is a ball ache. It's a pain waiting behind someone counting up change in a shop when they're paying, and it's annoying to have in your pocket.
> 
> I give all mine to my wife so she can take ages paying with exact change in shops.


 
The strength of my confusion is because of attitudes like the above. 
It takes sod all time to grab the change in my left pocket and hand over the right amount. There is not that much to go through because I do it EVERY time, so usually there is only one or two coppers a couple if fives and so on. 

Like YMU says, it's going to take just as long for the shop keeper to find my exact change as it is for me to find the exact change. 

People finding change a 'ball ache' confounds me, people finding it such a ball ache that they give it away???
It's lazy and a bit stupid.


----------



## Onket (Dec 10, 2012)

I've got one of those massive whiskey bottles they used to have behind the bar in pubs. Empty it every couple of years. I think I got about 40 quid out of it last time. I only put 5p downwards in there though.

I did have another pot I put 10p - 50p coins in but I kept dipping in to take out the 50ps, etc to nip to the shop for milk or whatever. I spose they aren't a bad thing to have for that reason alone. I emptied the last 10s & 20s out the other week and was surprised that there was £65 in there.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

zenie said:


> Savings for a rainy day that you don't notice are gone.
> 
> "Idiots"???  Says him of leathergate roflmao.


 
You are not saving money. You are just storing it in a more inconvenient way. 
Another one bringing up the leather thing ??
How exactly was I an idiot? I got all my money back including postage, I followed all ebay and paypals regulations, and there wasn't a better solution possible.


----------



## Onket (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The strength of my confusion is because of attitudes like the above.
> It takes sod all time to grab the change in my left pocket and hand over the right amount. There is not that much to go through because I do it EVERY time, so usually there is only one or two coppers a couple if fives and so on.
> 
> Like YMU says, it's going to take just as long for the shop keeper to find my exact change as it is for me to find the exact change.
> ...


 
I wouldn't worry about it too much.


----------



## zenie (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You are not saving money. You are just storing it in a more inconvenient way.
> Another one bringing up the leather thing ??
> How exactly was I an idiot? I got all my money back including postage, I followed all ebay and paypals regulations, and there wasn't a better solution possible.


 
You're the one going round calling people names for saving change up, perhaps you need to calm down a little?

I saved up my £2 coins and bought a new interior for my car the other year.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> Yeah, because having a sudden "windfall" of a couple of hundred quid doesn't come in handy when you have your bank account rinsed by some cunt.


 
It's not a 'Windfall', it's money you didn't spend. No different to keeping £200 in four £50 notes in the house. 
I thing what I find odd is the attitude that this is somehow a 'bonus', a windfall or some extra 'free' money. It's not. It's the money you didn't spend.


----------



## TitanSound (Dec 10, 2012)

That's why I put it in quotations. I know its money I haven't spent. I know its not free. But it is nice to have a little emergency stash if needed.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

zenie said:


> You're the one going round calling people names for saving change up, perhaps you need to calm down a little?
> 
> I saved up my £2 coins and bought a new interior for my car the other year.


 
You're the one who called me an 'idiot' on an unrelated matter. Yes I do think saving up change and thinking it somehow a gift is idiotic. 
You saved up and bought a new interior for your car, that's not idiotic, that's saving up for something. Not being able to put a couple of 2ps together in a shop and chucking it away isn't the work of a smart person.


----------



## Onket (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's not a 'Windfall', it's money you didn't spend. No different to keeping £200 in four £50 notes in the house.
> I thing what I find odd is the attitude that this is somehow a 'bonus', a windfall or some extra 'free' money. It's not. It's the money you didn't spend.


 
You don't think it would feel better to 'suddenly' have several hundred pounds in one go, rather than a few pence each day here & there?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> That's why I put it in quotations. I know its money I haven't spent. I know its not free. But it is nice to have a little emergency stash if needed.


Fair enough.


----------



## Onket (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yes I do think saving up change and thinking it somehow a gift is idiotic.


 
I think you're the only one who has suggested people might think it as a gift, tbf.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

Onket said:


> You don't think it would feel better to 'suddenly' have several hundred pounds in one go, rather than a few pence each day here & there?


 
You see, this is what I don't understand. 
Imagine you pay for everything by card. It's all coming from the same place, you don't 'suddenly' have any money, you didn't just fritter something away penny by penny, you pay for everything penny by penny. 
It's no different from not keeping track of your account and discovering you had £54 more than you thought. 
It's not like you bought a handful of blackjacks just because you had 10p in your pocket.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

Onket said:


> I think you're the only one who has suggested people might think it as a gift, tbf.


Gift, windfall whatever. 
A nice surprise.


----------



## Onket (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's no different from not keeping track of your account and discovering you had £54 more than you thought.


 
And this is equally as good, surely.

How can these things be viewed as bad? I don't get it.



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Gift, windfall whatever.
> A nice surprise.


 
People haven't called it those things either, have they?


----------



## Badgers (Dec 10, 2012)

he doesn't 'get it' AS usual


----------



## Onket (Dec 10, 2012)

Badgers said:


> he doesn't 'get it' AS usual


 
I'd have thought he could get basic mathematics, to be fair.


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 10, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Does anyone still bag their change and take it to the bank, or are you all happy to give 10% or whatever away to a machine because you can't be arsed?


 
I do. I don't like automated things and tbh don't know where they are in the local town.

I really want to go mudlarking. OP, please can I come with you some time I come down to London?? We watched Johnny Vaughan(?) when he did his series about it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why the heck do people have change jars?
> "Oh I hate shrapnel"
> "Ooh, it's too complicated"
> Idiots.
> ...


This times a million. I have always spent my change. I've always needed it. Can't afford to keep it festering in a jar.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

Onket said:


> And this is equally as good, surely.
> 
> How can these things be viewed as bad? I don't get it.
> 
> People haven't called it those things either, have they?


 
I did not say I view these as 'bad' things. Not keeping track of your money and then finding you have a little more isn't a cause for celebration. You always had that money. 
I have no problem with people saving money, but saving it by ignoring it is a little weird. 
I save my money in a high interest account.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

Onket said:


> I'd have thought he could get basic mathematics, to be fair.


 
Basic mathematics? Where am I missing the maths in your side of this?
I could easily argue that people who can't handle handing over the correct change because it takes too long to be at a slight mathematic disadvantage.

Plus, look at the thread title people.


----------



## TitanSound (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I save my money in a high interest account.


 
Some people don't have enough savings to justify it being in a high interest account. I doubt I would get much high interest on my £200 jar of coppers.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> Some people don't have enough savings to justify it being in a high interest account. I doubt I would get much high interest on my £200 jar of coppers.


 
But if you didn't put those coppers in a jar and had spent them, there would be £200 more in your bank account already, and you wouldn't have to make a special trip to the bank. The only difference would be that you knew how much money you had.
£200 in an instant access ISA would have made you another tenner.


----------



## TitanSound (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> But if you didn't put those coppers in a jar and had spent them, there would be £200 more in your bank account already, you wouldn't have to make a special trip to the bank.
> £200 in an instant access ISA would have made you another tenner.


 
Well, not really. It's a cumulative amount. That (average) of £200 a year is accumulated over the year. Every night when I empty my pockets I take any coppers or 5p's and chuck them in there. So, it would only matter if I put the total amount into a savings account when I got them cashed up.

I've never saved money unless I've really had to buy something.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> Well, not really. It's a cumulative amount. That (average) of £200 a year is accumulated over the year. Every night when I empty my pockets I take any coppers or 5p's and chuck them in there. So, it would only matter if I put the total amount into a savings account when I got them cashed up.
> 
> I've never saved money unless I've really had to buy something.


 
No, it would not necessarily be cumulative. You would not be putting 5p's into your account, you are leaving them in your account and not taking them out. The only reason you are accumulating change is because you are taking it from your account and not spending it. 

Obviously it would be cumulative as your wages came into your account, but once you already have £200 sitting there, from then on, it's the same as your penny jar.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2012)

Car crash thread.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 10, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:
			
		

> Car crash thread.



#changegate


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm with AS.
Just count your change out folks. It's easy!


----------



## ymu (Dec 10, 2012)

Onket said:


> You don't think it would feel better to 'suddenly' have several hundred pounds in one go, rather than a few pence each day here & there?


Depends on whether you earn enough to comfortably live on. If I'd been paying overdraft and late payment charges, then no - I'd feel like a dick.


----------



## wtfftw (Dec 10, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Does anyone still bag their change and take it to the bank, or are you all happy to give 10% or whatever away to a machine because you can't be arsed?


Some banks will only take £5 at a time in change. 



I never throw money away and I don't store change. My tight weekly budget needs all my pennies.


----------



## Greebo (Dec 10, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Does anyone still bag their change and take it to the bank<snip>


Yes - it's a more or less painless way of managing to just about set aside enough for the fuel bill.


----------



## spawnofsatan (Dec 10, 2012)

Anything above a 50p  goes in one jar and is used as needed, every coin below 50p goes in another jar and is weighed in at the end of the year.


----------



## weepiper (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> But if you didn't put those coppers in a jar and had spent them, there would be £200 more in your bank account already, and you wouldn't have to make a special trip to the bank. The only difference would be that you knew how much money you had.
> £200 in an instant access ISA would have made you another tenner.


 
What ISA are you using, because I want to move mine to it if it gives you that much interest.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 10, 2012)

Coinstar take a 8.9% cut, which is quite a bit simply for spending a few minutes counting coins.


----------



## Schmetterling (Dec 10, 2012)

How you can pay money to have your money counted? I'll count it for you; at 5%! Call me!

I put 1s, 2s and 5s aside then add them up about once a year. I leave them stashed - not telling you where - and put it in my account if I am really, really broke. Knowing I have x amount around 'lieing [sp ?]' around is a little safety barrier.

Fuel -> Fire: Oh, and Atomic and Orang: that is ON TOP of the found-money jar!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

weepiper said:


> What ISA are you using, because I want to move mine to it if it gives you that much interest.


 
Ok so maybe they are not 5% anymore I guess you would be looking at 5-7 quid instead of 10.
No need to be pedantic, all I was pointing out was the fact it is better to know where your money is, and putting coppers to one side (or throwing them away - which is what this thread was about) or not using them because the minute amount of math involved was daft.

If it works for you guys then that's great, lets not fight. For me, well I have always thought it pointlessly silly.


----------



## weepiper (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ok so maybe they are not 5% anymore I guess you would be looking at 5-7 quid instead of 10.
> No need to be pedantic, all I was pointing out was the fact it is better to know where your money is, and putting coppers to one side (or throwing them away - which is what this thread was about) or not using them because the minute amount of math involved was daft.
> 
> If it works for you guys then that's great, lets not fight. For me, well I have always thought it pointlessly silly.


 
no seriously. Mine would give me a return of £2.74 on £200 saved for a year.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

weepiper said:


> no seriously. Mine would give me a return of £2.74 on £200 saved for a year.


 
1.37% Blinking heck, you should maybe get a different one.
Or rather, maybe I should check my own ones. I have a savings account which I thought was way better than that, but if that is all they are offering on ISAs these days I will only be generating peanuts.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
			
		

> If it works for you guys then that's great, lets not fight.






			
				ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
			
		

> I have always thought it pointlessly silly.



Well done


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You see, this is what I don't understand.
> Imagine you pay for everything by card. It's all coming from the same place, you don't 'suddenly' have any money, you didn't just fritter something away penny by penny, you pay for everything penny by penny.
> It's no different from not keeping track of your account and discovering you had £54 more than you thought.
> It's not like you bought a handful of blackjacks just because you had 10p in your pocket.


 
You're right, you don't understand.  

It's about additive von Neumann–Morgenstern utility theory.

I always have a jar of change on the go.


----------



## plurker (Dec 10, 2012)

I have a change jar.  Anything I find that's 5p and under goes in, it holds around £70 when full
At Christmas I use the coinage, via one of those machines, plus any accumulated Nectar points to get some rum and nice cheese. Far tastier than an ISA...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

plurker said:


> I have a change jar. Anything I find that's 5p and under goes in, it holds around £70 when full
> At Christmas I use the coinage, via one of those machines, plus any accumulated Nectar points to get some rum and nice cheese. Far tastier than an ISA...


 
Though of course if you had not have put those 5ps to the side that £70 would be in the bank and you could still buy your rum and cheese, plus you would not need to go to one of those machines and pay the (approximate) £6 charge, and you could buy a bottle of wine too.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2012)

It really doesn't work like that ime.


----------



## Onket (Dec 10, 2012)

Surely you know it doesn't work like that for a lot if people. Those who always spend what they've got, for whatever reason.


----------



## Corax (Dec 10, 2012)

I tried giving mine to the _Live The Dream Foundation_, and now I'm banned from football.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2012)

Onket said:


> Surely you know it doesn't work like that for a lot if people. Those who always spend what they've got, for whatever reason.



I'm not sure AS is capable of seeing things from another's perspective.


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> £200 in an instant access ISA would have made you another tenner.


 
Where the feck are you getting that kind of interest?? Coz I can't find anywhere that gives that rate for £200. Atm you'd get an extra £2 so hardly worth saving at all. I've had savings all my life from childhood and atm I am spending money because the rates are so shite!


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)

Ponyutd said:


> Why do people throw away perfectly good money? This is just some of the decimal coinage I have found this year in the River Thames.
> I suppose tourists could account for some of it...it must run in to thousands.


 
Are you scuba diving for that money?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> It really doesn't work like that ime.


It's not about opinions, that is how it works.
The difference is only how your mind thinks of the coins in the jar.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm not sure AS is capable of seeing things from another's perspective.


 
I said it was stupid, not unfathomable.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

geminisnake said:


> Where the feck are you getting that kind of interest?? Coz I can't find anywhere that gives that rate for £200. Atm you'd get an extra £2 so hardly worth saving at all. I've had savings all my life from childhood and atm I am spending money because the rates are so shite!


 
After seeing peoples outrage that I thought the rates were maybe 5%, I checked and they are at about 2-3% for ISAs at the moment.
Not a tenner I grant you, but +£5 is still £22 better than -£17 pounds after you have taken it to a coin change machine. My point wasn't that it was a massive money spinner, just that it was a little less daft.


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 10, 2012)

The interest rates are shite atm to the extent that I genuinely don't see the point in saving right now 
I don't think anyone is wrong here it's just people have different ways of saving. I put all my coppers in a tin which I intend to give to charity when it's worth writing a cheque.
I'm lucky that I'm good with money and don't need every last penny but unfortunately a lot of people DO need those jarred pennies every month or so


----------



## weepiper (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> After seeing peoples outrage that I thought the rates were maybe 5%, I checked and they are at about 2-3% for ISAs at the moment.
> Not a tenner I grant you, but +£5 is still £22 better than -£17 pounds after you have taken it to a coin change machine. My point wasn't that it was a massive money spinner, just that it was a little less daft.


 
They're only 2-3% if you're saving lots, like several thousand. If you're saving a few hundred quid they're generally nearer 1%


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 10, 2012)

weepiper said:


> They're only 2-3% if you're saving lots, like several thousand. If you're saving a few hundred quid they're generally nearer 1%


Nah, look again. There are loads doing between 2 and 3 for a minimum of £1.


----------



## weepiper (Dec 10, 2012)

I'll have a look round then.


----------



## Ponyutd (Dec 10, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Are you scuba diving for that money?


No, all found on the foreshore when the tide goes out, That's only some of it as well. Don't even start me on finding mobile phones!


----------



## zenie (Dec 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> after you have taken it to a coin change machine.


 
I don't use a coin change machine.


----------



## Frumious B. (Dec 11, 2012)

Err...is this the thread to find out where I can get a £100 note? I suppose English banks get them paid in occasionally - do they circulate them or send them back where they came from?


----------



## clicker (Dec 11, 2012)

Is there one thing you've found, that has totally surprised / shocked/ delighted/ horrified you and made all the searching worthwhile?


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's not about opinions, that is how it works.
> The difference is only how your mind thinks of the coins in the jar.


 
If you can't see the difference between the use value of 100 pennies and a pound then its you that's the thick fucker here.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:
			
		

> If you can't see the difference between the use value of 100 pennies and a pound then its you that's the thick fucker here.



I don't get it


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

What can you buy for a penny?  Do you want a hundred of them?


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

Are 100 penny chews worth more or less than the emergency bus fare?


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

Why would you need to buy penny chews to get rid of your change?


----------



## DJ Squelch (Dec 11, 2012)

I just found £40 worth of gift vouchers in a draw... for Virgin Megastore.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 11, 2012)

DJ Squelch said:
			
		

> I just found £40 worth of gift vouchers in a draw... for Virgin Megastore.



Put them in an ISA


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 11, 2012)

zenie said:


> I don't use a coin change machine.


 
That ISA comment was waaaaay back in reply to a collection bottle + coin change machine / bank discussion. I can't tailor every post to fit everyones personal circumstances, and what they may or may not have posted.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> If you can't see the difference between the use value of 100 pennies and a pound then its you that's the thick fucker here.


I think you may have completely missed the point. 



fractionMan said:


> What can you buy for a penny? Do you want a hundred of them?





fractionMan said:


> Are 100 penny chews worth more or less than the emergency bus fare?


Ah yes, you quite obviously did. 
. . and I am the 'thick fucker' here??


----------



## TitanSound (Dec 11, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Put them in an ISA


 
Not any old ISA, a high interest ISA.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> ...


 
I think you're completely unable to comprehend you might be wrong, let alone why you might be wrong.

Get help.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I think you're completely unable to comprehend you might be wrong.
> 
> Get help.


That's because I am not wrong. 

To just go back over you 'penny' chew thing again. You don't use those 1ps etc to buy stuff you don't need, you use them when you need the change. Therefore you don't actually have much change in your pocket because you are always using it. Because you are using that money you are taking less money out of your bank account instead of popping a 'weird change overload' into a jar. The jar money is still there, only it's not in a jar, it's in the bank. It's not a surprise amount of money, it's money you have been able to keep track of.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

Yes, I always find the bank the best place to keep my emergency bus fare.  That way I have to catch a bus to get it out.

Oh, wait.


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

Emergency bus fare can be found down the back of the sofa. We're talking about people collecting serious amounts of money in small denominations which is time-consuming and/or expensive to buy anything with - simply because they can't be arsed to fish out the right change when they buy stuff.


----------



## Onket (Dec 11, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> That's because I am not wrong.
> 
> To just go back over you 'penny' chew thing again. You don't use those 1ps etc to buy stuff you don't need, you use them when you need the change. Therefore you don't actually have much change in your pocket because you are always using it. Because you are using that money you are taking less money out of your bank account instead of popping a 'weird change overload' into a jar. The jar money is still there, only it's not in a jar, it's in the bank. It's not a surprise amount of money, it's money you have been able to keep track of.



I think everyone understands that.


----------



## Onket (Dec 11, 2012)

Onket said:


> Surely you know it doesn't work like that for a lot if people. Those who always spend what they've got, for whatever reason.



?


----------



## Onket (Dec 11, 2012)

ymu said:


> Emergency bus fare can be found down the back of the sofa. We're talking about people collecting serious amounts of money in small denominations which is time-consuming and/or expensive to buy anything with - simply because they can't be arsed to fish out the right change when they buy stuff.



Where you get your sofa?!


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I think you're completely unable to comprehend you might be wrong, let alone why you might be wrong.
> 
> Get help.


 
But he's NOT wrong, he just has a different viewpoint which is just as sodding valid as yours. I'm getting miffed with all the petty crap that is being directed at AS recently in virtually every fecking thread he posts in. It's really making me think this place has gone downhill


----------



## zenie (Dec 11, 2012)

Onket said:


> Where you get your sofa?!


 
Fantastic use of English there


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

geminisnake said:


> But he's NOT wrong, he just has a different viewpoint which is just as sodding valid as yours. I'm getting miffed with all the petty crap that is being directed at AS recently in virtually every fecking thread he posts in. It's really making me think this place has gone downhill


 
He's wrong because he can't admit he's wrong.   He's wrong with his absolutist attitude.   Him carrying around massive pockets of change and counting them out works for him, but it doesn't work for me and many other people.  I get more utility from my money using my method.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

geminisnake said:


> But he's NOT wrong, he just has a different viewpoint which is just as sodding valid as yours. I'm getting miffed with all the petty crap that is being directed at AS recently in virtually every fecking thread he posts in. It's really making me think this place has gone downhill


 
Here's his first post in the thread. The one where he calls anyone who doesn't think like him idiots. Not "people with different viewpoints", just "idiots".



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why the heck do people have change jars?
> "Oh I hate shrapnel"
> "Ooh, it's too complicated"
> Idiots.
> ...


 
Which is fine, but he has to expect to reap what he sows.


----------



## purenarcotic (Dec 11, 2012)

ymu said:


> If there's someone paying in coppers, of course it's slow - but that's the precise opposite of what I'm talking about. If you use your change to pay for stuff, you don't ever have many coppers to count.
> 
> Shop-keeper: That's £9.57
> Me: <handing over a tenner> I've got the 57p
> ...


 
But you had to carry change around with you so you'd have the 57p.


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> He's wrong because he can't admit he's wrong. He's wrong with his absolutist attitude. Him carrying around massive pockets of change and counting them out works for him, but it doesn't work for me and many other people. I get more utility from my money using my method.


He does not carry around massive pockets of change because he gets rid of as much change as possible each and every time he buys something with cash. Thus, he never accumulates enough change to have massive amounts of it. There's probably a mathematical limit to the amount of change he could ever have on him but I can't be arsed to work it out. (@kabbes )


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> But you had to carry change around with you so you'd have the 57p.


You don't have to start the day with change, but if you refuse to spend any change you are given, you will end up with more change than if you tried to find the right amount when possible.

I have a coin pocket in my wallet. It's not something I ever have to think about - there'll always be up to a quid or so of small change in it - rarely more, sometimes less. I've never had to empty it or count it (unless I needed to know what I could afford to buy) - it's just there.

How is this difficult to grasp?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> He's wrong because he can't admit he's wrong. He's wrong with his absolutist attitude. Him carrying around massive pockets of change and counting them out works for him, but it doesn't work for me and many other people. I get more utility from my money using my method.


 
Wow, you aren't even reading my posts but can still declare how 'wrong' I am.
I don't carry around pockets full of change. I spend it as I go. Right now I have two tens, a twenty, a five, 2p and 1p.
It takes no longer for me to count out money than it does for someone to open a till and count out the change of a fiver (or whatever). Buy something for £3.26, hand them a fiver, if you have the 26p you get a nice round £2 change. Do this everywhere and change does not build up.
1 & 2ps rarely accumulate more than 5p five rarely more than 15p etc etc.

You were claiming I was 'wrong' after I said that the money that I didn't save as coppers was still in the bank, because over time I spend the money in my pocket without having to withdraw more, with more frequency. This is a fact, it is not 'wrong'.
The 'lifestyle' choice of saving money in a jar is entirely up to you.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 11, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> But you had to carry change around with you so you'd have the 57p.


 
That could be as utterly cumbersome as one 50p, a five pence and a two pence.
You can also just give someone the seven if that's all you have. Get a nice solid 50p change.
It's quite basic maths and takes no time at all.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 11, 2012)

*wishes ignore function worked on ForumRunner


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 11, 2012)

You must have a lot of money to spare if you can afford to stick it in a jar every night and just leave it there. I couldn't afford to do that even when I was earning a decent salary. Seems a very inefficient way of using your money.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 11, 2012)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> You must have a lot of money to spare if you can afford to stick it in a jar every night and just leave it there. I couldn't afford to do that even when I was earning a decent salary. Seems a very inefficient way of using your money.



Who must?


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

People who can afford to stick it in a jar every night and just leave it there.

Is this some elaborate joke, or is bullying AS now such an overwhelming imperative that you're all willing to make yourselves look fucking stupid in the process?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 11, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Who must?


Those odd creatures who put spare money in a jar, instead of spending it


----------



## Badgers (Dec 11, 2012)

Wankers eh?


----------



## zenie (Dec 11, 2012)

I raid mine quite a bit  Now I don't smoke anymore the days at the end of the month where I'd have had to grab ANY and all silver are no longer, lol at people playing the poor card now


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

Jesus suffering fuck


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 11, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Wankers eh?


Outrageous how people are different from one another, isn't it?


----------



## Badgers (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:
			
		

> Jesus suffering fuck



Idiot ^


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

Onket said:


> Where you get your sofa?!


 perhaps that money would be better stored in a jar.


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

It's money that friends and family drop from their pockets because they don't bother spending their change.

Much better value than the stuff you stick in a jar.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Dec 11, 2012)

I wait until my purse is full of 1p and 2ps then buy something in Sainsbury's for £2.74 and pay for it uisng said coins in one of the self-service checkouts thus offending people who hate hoarding coins and people who hate self-service checkouts but have been forced to use one.

Double whammy. Sorted!


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)




----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> You must have a lot of money to spare if you can afford to stick it in a jar every night and just leave it there. I couldn't afford to do that even when I was earning a decent salary. Seems a very inefficient way of using your money.


 

In times of absolute skintness, that 20p in the jar you didn't waste because it wasn't in your pocket becomes the emergency rizla fund. That couple of quid you dumped in last week becomes the loaf of bread or bottle of cider in times of dire need. It's micro saving.

It's certainly not "inefficient". I'd argue that in those cases it makes the best use of resources. It's never wasted and only spent when necessary.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Wow, you aren't even reading my posts but can still declare how 'wrong' I am.
> I don't carry around pockets full of change. I spend it as I go. Right now I have two tens, a twenty, a five, 2p and 1p.
> It takes no longer for me to count out money than it does for someone to open a till and count out the change of a fiver (or whatever). Buy something for £3.26, hand them a fiver, if you have the 26p you get a nice round £2 change. Do this everywhere and change does not build up.
> 1 & 2ps rarely accumulate more than 5p five rarely more than 15p etc etc.
> ...


 
What I actually said was



> you don't understand.
> 
> It's about additive von Neumann–Morgenstern utility theory.


 
and 



> I think you're completely unable to comprehend you might be wrong, let alone why you might be wrong.


 
and 



> He's wrong because he can't admit he's wrong. He's wrong with his absolutist attitude


 
But hey, whatever.


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> In times of absolute skintness, that 20p in the jar you didn't waste because it wasn't in your pocket becomes the emergency rizla fund. That couple of quid you dumped in last week becomes the loaf of bread or bottle of cider in times of dire need. It's micro saving.
> 
> It's certainly not "inefficient". I'd argue that in those cases it makes the best use of resources. It's never wasted and only spent when necessary.


 
You're still assuming that the change is frittered on stuff that wouldn't otherwise have been bought. It's not. You're just handing over change to pay for things instead of receiving more change than necessary.

If you don't keep coins in a purse/wallet, then I totally understand emptying it into a coin jar at the end of the day. What I don't understand is paying for something with a note and getting shrapnel in the change when you already have shrapnel in your pocket that you don't want to be carrying around.

If it's £9.57 and I can make the 57p, doing so means I have a pound coin instead of the 43p change + the 57p in change I already had. If I can't make the 57p but I can make the 7p, then I have a 50p instead of 43p change and the 7p I already have.

It's about shrapnel minimisation, not spending change for the sake of getting rid of it.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ymu said:


> You're still assuming that the change is frittered on stuff that wouldn't otherwise have been bought. It's not. You're just handing over change to pay for things instead of receiving more change than necessary.
> 
> If you don't keep coins in a purse/wallet, then I totally understand emptying it into a coin jar at the end of the day. What I don't understand is paying for something with a note and getting shrapnel in the change when you already have shrapnel in your pocket that you don't want to be carrying around.
> 
> ...


 
I'm not. I'm assuming the utility of spending those small amounts of change when you've got them is less that the utility of buying something really important when you need to. Like rizla or emergency bus fare.

I do think the purse/wallet thing has some bearing on whether or not people do have a penny jar.  If you've not got one then your ability to keep pennies in your purse/wallet becomes a driving factor in spending them.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I'm not. I'm assuming the utility of spending those small amounts of change when you've got them is less that the utility of buying something really important when you need to. Like rizla or emergency bus fare.
> 
> I do think the purse/wallet thing has some bearing on whether or not people do have a penny jar. If you've not got one then your ability to keep pennies in your purse/wallet becomes a driving factor in spending them.


 
I personally only ever have a few pence in my pocket. I go to tescos for milk and if I have the change I use it.
I don't look in my pocket and go "wow 50p, I'm getting a snickers".


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I'm not. I'm assuming the utility of spending those small amounts of change when you've got them is less that the utility of buying something really important when you need to. Like rizla or emergency bus fare.
> 
> I do think the purse/wallet thing has some bearing on whether or not people do have a penny jar. If you've not got one then your ability to keep pennies in your purse/wallet becomes a driving factor in spending them.


 
But you're not spending those small amounts of change, you're just carrying it around in the more convenient form of notes for longer than would otherwise be the case.

I think more carefully about breaking notes than spending coins for trivial purposes, so I contend that it would, if anything, decrease spending on unnecessary stuff.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> What I actually said was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yes but first of all you came in at a point which contested my wrongness on a completely different point. I never contested what you said here, though I do actually think it is wrong in my case and for many many other people. In fact I have been saying all along that I think the way people view change in this way is daft, it's the same mentality as the money jar. . but if you need something like that because you can't do the math or you can't stop yourself buying penny sweets, then I guess that's a system.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yes but first of all you came in at a point which contested my wrongness on a completely different point. I never contested what you said here, though I do actually think it is wrong in my case and for many many other people. In fact I have been saying all along that I think the way people view change in this way is daft, it's the same mentality as the money jar. . but if you need something like that because you can't do the math or you can't stop yourself buying penny sweets, then I guess that's a system.


 
We can all play that condescending game. Well done. I'm glad you've never been 10p short.

Now go off and look at the math I posted and get back to me. It's a similar reason as to why buying lottery tickets isn't as stupid as many people assume. In fact I expect ymu has encountered the math before (although it's not exactly about gambling, it is about utility)


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

What maths?

The only maths I've seen from you assumed that coins could only be spent on penny chews. If that's not the post you meant, which one do you mean?


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

Put simply, saving 10p a day means you'll never run out of milk. I'd rather put 10p to the money jar (and not use it for my next purchase like you and AS) than run out of emergency milk money. I'm saying spending the 10p the way I do has higher value than yours.

Other people are so organised they never run out of milk anyway. Good for them.


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

But you're not saving 10p a day. You're taking more money than necessary out of your bank account in order to have coins available at home.

Yesterday, I spent £10.22 in Heron Foods*, £5.50 on veg at the market and £3.74 on baccy.

I could have used two tenners and two fivers and ended up with £4.78 + £4.50 + £1.26 in change. Instead, I broke two tenners and ended up with 54p change. There's a tenner more in my bank account as a result. And given that I am overdrawn, that is a Very Good Thing.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ymu said:


> But you're not saving 10p a day. You're taking more money than necessary out of your bank account in order to have coins available at home.
> 
> Yesterday, I spent £10.22 in Heron Foods*, £5.50 on veg at the market and £3.74 on baccy.
> 
> I could have used two tenners and two fivers and ended up with £4.78 + £4.50 + £1.26 in change. Instead, I broke two tenners and ended up with 54p change. There's a tenner more in my bank account as a result. And given that I am overdrawn, that is a Very Good Thing.


 
What happens when you need to buy something that costs 55p tomorrow morning?   Like milk.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ymu said:


> What maths?
> 
> The only maths I've seen from you assumed that coins could only be spent on penny chews. If that's not the post you meant, which one do you mean?


 

We both know that in absolute terms playing the lottery is -EV, right? But that doesn't make it life -EV.

You swap the chance to spend your quid on something for the chance to win a much larger sum, a sum that would literally _change your life._ Something that £1 could never do. And that's why people play. And it's a pretty sound reason.

That's the penny sweet argument right there. You swap the chance to spend the penny on a chew, or the last penny of a five pound purchase, whatever. But you swap it for the chance to always be able to get the bus even though your wallet is empty when you wake up in the morning. And that is worth more than the sum of individual things you would have done with those pennies. It's everyso slightly -ev in that it doesn't save me interest on my overdraft or gain interest in a saving account but it's massively life +ev in that I never miss the bus due to not having enough money at home. That's the crux of my argument.


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> What happens when you need to buy something that costs 55p tomorrow morning? Like milk.


I'd have to break a note.

As would you, because your £10.54 is now in your change jar.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ymu said:


> I'd have to break a note.
> 
> As would you, because your £10.54 is now in your change jar.


 
My change jar is an accumulator of pennies. There's more than 54p in there. And I thought you said that tenner was in the bank? 

Anyway, I've posted my thoughts above.  I'm struggling now to remember what the formal argument is called.  @Kabbes would know.


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> We both know that in absolute terms playing the lottery is -EV, right? But that doesn't make it life -EV.
> 
> You swap the chance to spend your quid on something for the chance to win a much larger sum, a sum that would literally _change your life._ Something that £1 could never do. And that's why people play. And it's a pretty sound reason.
> 
> That's the penny sweet argument right there. You swap the chance to spend the penny on a chew, or the last penny of a five pound purchase, whatever. But you swap it for the chance to always be able to get the bus even though your wallet is empty when you wake up in the morning. And that is worth more than the sum of individual things you would have done with those pennies. It's everyso slightly -ev in that it doesn't save me interest on my overdraft or gain interest in a saving account but it's massively life +ev in that I never miss the bus due to not having enough money at home. That's the crux of my argument.


But you are assuming that the change is frittered away on things that wouldn't have been bought if the change was not available.

That assumption is incorrect. No part of my spending yesterday depended on my having change on me. The only difference is that I had to break two notes when you would have had to break three or four notes.

In your analogy, you keep your lottery winnings in a change jar whereas I keep mine in my bank account. The only other difference is that you end up carrying around a lot more change than I do because I don't have to break notes as often.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ymu said:


> But you are assuming that the change is frittered away on things that wouldn't have been bought if the change was not available.
> 
> That assumption is incorrect. No part of my spending yesterday depended on my having change on me. The only difference is that I had to break two notes when you would have had to break three or four notes.


 
I'm really not. Hence the " the last penny of a five pound purchase" part. It's not about breaking notes, it's about the future opportunities that micro saving gives you.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> In times of absolute skintness, that 20p in the jar you didn't waste because it wasn't in your pocket becomes the emergency rizla fund. That couple of quid you dumped in last week becomes the loaf of bread or bottle of cider in times of dire need. It's micro saving.
> 
> It's certainly not "inefficient". I'd argue that in those cases it makes the best use of resources. It's never wasted and only spent when necessary.


I need all the money I have. I wouldn't be able to even begin saving my cash that way. It's money I need now, not later.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> We can all play that condescending game. Well done. I'm glad you've never been 10p short.
> 
> Now go off and look at the math I posted and get back to me. It's a similar reason as to why buying lottery tickets isn't as stupid as many people assume. In fact I expect ymu has encountered the math before (although it's not exactly about gambling, it is about utility)


 
Oh my god, are you insane?

If I am 10p short of change I break a the next coin up or a note or pay for it on a card.
If you are suggesting that putting aside 10ps is a way to have money when your bank account is empty then . . . well I think we have covered this area pretty extensively.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I need all the money I have. I wouldn't be able to even begin saving my cash that way. It's money I need now, not later.


 
Then I'm sorry your that skint   I don't think I had much of a penny jar when I was on the dole but I definitely had one.  I guess I started it before I hit the dole.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I'm really not. Hence the " the last penny of a five pound purchase" part. It's not about breaking notes, it's about the future opportunities that micro saving gives you.


 
How about the 'now' savings micro money managing retains. The future opportunities of those pennies still exist in the pounds and greater unbroken change.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh my god, are you insane?
> 
> If I am 10p short of change I break a the next coin up or a note or pay for it on a card.
> If you are suggesting that putting aside 10ps is a way to have money when your bank account is empty then . . . well I think we have covered this area pretty extensively.


 
You pay your bus fare with a card?  I guess that's some london thing I'm about to discover.  Do you not have "minimum 5 pound on a card" shops?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Then I'm sorry your that skint   I don't think I had much of a penny jar when I was on the dole but I definitely had one.  I guess I started it before I hit the dole.


As I said, i needed all of that money when I had a decent job to, its about being so loaded you can throw all of your change in a pot and forget about it for a couple of years.
ymu's posts talk sense here.


Why break a note when you have coins in your pocket? This is the thing that baffles me most.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> As I said, i needed all of that money when I had a decent job. If I could afford to keep coins in a jar, I'd think of a more efficent way to save it, one that pays interest.
> Ymu's posts talk sense here.
> Why break a note when you have coins in your pocket? This is the thing that baffles me most.


 
Of all the arguments I've read I really struggle with the "stick that 10p in the bank to gain interest" for an absolutely marginal financial gain. It's just not worth it.

fwiw I don't tend to break notes if I can help it. But any change tends to hit the change jar every night. Often a percentage of it is back out the next morning.


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I'm really not. Hence the " the last penny of a five pound purchase" part. It's not about breaking notes, it's about the future opportunities that micro saving gives you.


It's not micro-savings if it causes you to withdraw more money from your account in the first place.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ymu said:


> It's not micro-savings if it causes you to withdraw more money from your account in the first place.


 
I doesn't make me withdraw more at a time, I guess it makes me withdraw ever-so-slightly more often.


----------



## ymu (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Of all the arguments I've read I really struggle with the "stick that 10p in the bank to gain interest" for an absolutely marginal financial gain. It's just not worth it.
> 
> fwiw I don't tend to break notes if I can help it. But any change tends to hit the change jar every night. Often a percentage of it is back out the next morning.


It's not 10p - people on this thread are talking about hundreds over the course of a year. It might be a trivial amount of earned interest if you're in the black, but if you operate out of overdraft for a significant proportion of the month/year, it's a lot of interest and bank charges saved.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 11, 2012)

ymu said:


> It's not 10p - people on this thread are talking about hundreds over the course of a year. It might be a trivial amount of earned interest if you're in the black, but if you operate out of overdraft for a significant proportion of the month/year, it's a lot of interest and bank charges saved.


 
300 quid at 1% is 3 quid, and that's not even compounding it properly, which would make it much, much less.

I can totally see the argument if you're close to your overdraft limit and those penny shortfalls end up costing you £25 a go.

Personally my jar is nowhere near that much.


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Other people are so organised they never run out of milk anyway. Good for them.


 
It's not always about being organised, it's kinda a bit of a phobia in my case  I feel like I'm a rubbish wife if I run out of things. It's also a hereditary thing for me, I come from generations of hoarders and people who buy a thing when you start on the one at home. Eg you start a new jar of jam, so next time you shop you buy more jam.  It's a bit more complex than that in my head so I'm not going to explain it fully. I just don't like running out of anything.


----------



## story (Dec 11, 2012)

I save all my change below £1 for the whole year, and then I have loads for Christmas shopping. Or for milk, Rizlas, the odd night out when I'm otherwise borasic etc.

ATOMIC SUPLEX is not wrong in what he says... but I reckon he's wrong about how it all works for those of us who manage our money this way.

Like, just now I found a tenner in the pocket of a pair of jeans. It's clearly been through the wash, maybe more than once. I was really chuffed to find it, it felt like free money, a gift, even though it must have been my own money when I put it in that pocket back whenever it was.

I like saving change because it feels like it's come free from somewhere. Yer, it's a trick and so forth, and yer I may have less in the bank while I've got loose change in a jar.

But I'm also one of those people who has tinned and dried food in cupboards in the kitchen, bought and paid for and not being eaten tonight, or even next week; but there it is, waiting for that moment when a packet of dried mushrooms is the thing that turns my monday evening scrape-together into something really rather marvelous. I've got stuff in the freezer too.


----------



## story (Dec 11, 2012)

And don't anyone go telling me that the bank is the same as my food cupboard or freezer, cos it's not at all. I have to engage with the outside world, or my computer, when I do my banking. Change in a jar is mine, here in my home, not piled up elsewhere under the aegis of an organisation.

I'd not store my dried food in my neighbour's kitchen, so similarly I keep my money in a sock under the mattress/jar on the dresser


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> You pay your bus fare with a card? I guess that's some london thing I'm about to discover. Do you not have "minimum 5 pound on a card" shops?


 
1. Yes.
2. No.
But I also don't ever go to the shops for a 10p item.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I doesn't make me withdraw more at a time, I guess it makes me withdraw ever-so-slightly more often.


Exactly. To the point that over a year (say) you have accumulated £70 of withdrawals in a jar.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm done on this shitty thread tbh.  Feel free to carry it on alone.


----------



## TitanSound (Dec 12, 2012)

story said:


> And don't anyone go telling me that the bank is the same as my food cupboard or freezer, cos it's not at all. I have to engage with the outside world, or my computer, when I do my banking. Change in a jar is mine, here in my home, not piled up elsewhere under the aegis of an organisation.
> 
> I'd not store my dried food in my neighbour's kitchen, so similarly I keep my money in a sock under the mattress/jar on the dresser


 
Having money in the bank is a false sense of security anyway.

Yeah, sure, the government say they will guarantee savings up to £50,000 but what happens when parliament are being eaten by a ravaging hoard of zombies? What good are the numbers on a screen going to be to you then?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 12, 2012)

story said:


> ATOMIC SUPLEX is not wrong in what he says... but I reckon he's wrong about how it all works for those of us who manage our money this way.
> 
> .


 
Exactly.
. . . but I have never said I do know how it works, I just think it's daft. When I say "I just don't get it" it's a nicer way perhaps of saying "that's just silly."

I think the mistake that fraction man is making is that he was trying to bring a behavioral element into the equation, when it is that very same behavioral element alone that I am calling 'stupid'.
I understand that it exists, for instance, if I bought a bottle of wine every week but saw an offer of  three bottles of wine for the price of two, that would not 'personally' save me money as due to a behavioral aspect of my personality I would just drink the lot in one go. I know that it's 'stupid' to do that, but that's just how I am. That doesn't stop the maths of three bottles for the price of two being cheaper.

This is not my attitude to change, I never look at the change in my pocket (or in a jar) and make purchase decisions based on that. I think that is daft.


----------



## zenie (Dec 12, 2012)

geminisnake said:


> It's not always about being organised, it's kinda a bit of a phobia in my case  I feel like I'm a rubbish wife if I run out of things. It's also a hereditary thing for me, I come from generations of hoarders and people who buy a thing when you start on the one at home. Eg *you start a new jar of jam, so next time you shop you buy more jam. It's a bit more complex than that in my head so I'm not going to explain it fully. I just don't like running out of anything.*


 
I'm like that, it's a whole 'nother thread!!


----------



## SimonC (Dec 12, 2012)

Spymaster posting.



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Though of course if you had not have put those 5ps to the side that £70 would be in the bank ....


 
No. This is not the case.

The thing is you're not as smart as you think you are and in your haste to label others as "daft", "idiots", or "silly", you've overlooked some things.

Firstly, the reason that the penny jar works as a savings vehicle for some is *because* it segregates money from ones bank account and keeps it in a form which is largely unusable until it's cashed-up, encouraging accumulation. All that would happen for most people in the situation you outline is that they would simply spend the money from their bank accounts on other things thus not accumulating anything.

The other mistake that both you and Ymu have made is to assume that people with penny jars don't also manage their change in precisely the way you do. Pretty much everyone does. They just chuck the few coins that are collected each day or two into a jar. In these days of pretty much zero interest on small amounts of savings the penny jar is as efficient a means of building up small lump sums as any other, and actually better than yours.

Also, people keep change jars for different reasons. I've got one because my wallet only holds notes and cards, I rarely use cash anyway, and I don't want small coins jingling around in my pockets . Each night I bung my change into the jar to give to the kids when they come round and for them it's fun. I also lob a few 1 and 2 quid coins in there every now and then as a surprise.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 12, 2012)

SimonC said:
			
		

> Spymaster posting.
> 
> Each night I bung my change into the jar to give to the kids when they come round and for them it's fun. I also lob a few 1 and 2 quid coins in there every now and then as a surprise.



Idiot


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 12, 2012)

SimonC said:


> Spymaster posting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Look back two posts before your own.
You (and others) have completely missed my point.


----------



## SimonC (Dec 12, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You (and others) have completely missed my point.


 
No I haven't you eristic little twonk.

You're calling people daft because they don't do what you do, when in fact dealing with loose change in this way is not necessarily less efficient than your method and is actually a _more_ effective way of accumulating small lump sums.


----------



## MillwallShoes (Dec 12, 2012)

is this thread a wind up? people arguing about loose change?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 12, 2012)

welcome to urban


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 12, 2012)

SimonC said:


> No I haven't you eristic little twonk.
> 
> You're calling people daft because they don't do what you do, when in fact dealing with loose change in this way is not necessarily less efficient than your method and is actually a _more_ effective way of accumulating small lump sums.


 
No, I am saying that 'I think' that thinking of change in that manner is daft.
I know plenty of people that keep change that I don't think of as 'daft' people.
Equally (as explained in my analogy) I think that it is 'daft' of me to buy not to be able to buy three for two wine and make it last three weeks.
People are people.

I was never talking about the best methods of saving money tailored for each individual. People were quite clearly (a while back now) talking about the money jar as if it had magically amassed money that could be spent on a treat (such as christmas cheese or whatever).

The nature of your money (change, notes, cards, in a jar) should not influence how you view it should be spent, is silly. It's still the same money.


----------



## Corax (Dec 12, 2012)

Corax said:


> I tried giving mine to the _Live The Dream Foundation_, and now I'm banned from football.


Not a single like, a single comment?  You bastards couldn't even be arsed to google the charity could you?  No, don't bother, it's not topical any more.  Fuckers.


----------



## Corax (Dec 12, 2012)

SimonC said:


> eristic


TIL


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 12, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> Err...is this the thread to find out where I can get a £100 note? I suppose English banks get them paid in occasionally - do they circulate them or send them back where they came from?


 
I expect they send them back where they came from.


----------



## Greebo (Dec 12, 2012)

Corax said:


> Not a single like, a single comment? You bastards couldn't even be arsed to google the charity could you? No, don't bother, it's not topical any more. Fuckers.


It looks like a good cause, but I hate the website.  Graphic heavy, almost unreadable in patches...


----------



## Corax (Dec 12, 2012)

Greebo said:


> It looks like a good cause, but I hate the website. Graphic heavy, almost unreadable in patches...


Rio Ferdinand's charity. Etihad. FFS.


----------



## SimonC (Dec 12, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> No, I am saying that 'I think' that thinking of change in that manner is daft.
> I know plenty of people that keep change that I don't think of as 'daft' people.


 
I don't think you have a clue what you're saying, tbh.




			
				ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
			
		

> Why the heck do people have change jars?
> "Oh I hate shrapnel"
> "Ooh, it's too complicated"
> Idiots.


 
You also said to FM:



> You were claiming I was 'wrong' after I said that the money that I didn't save as coppers was still in the bank, because over time I spend the money in my pocket without having to withdraw more, with more frequency. This is a fact, it is not 'wrong'.


 
This _IS_ almost certainly wrong, and not "fact" given that over the several months that it would take to amass a substantial sum in coins, you, like most others, would probably have spent the more useable money in your bank account on other things, having not been collecting it elsewhere in less useable format.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 12, 2012)

Why the name change?


----------



## SimonC (Dec 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Why the name change?


 
I couldn't use the Spymaster account as I don't have access to the email account that I used to set it up to retrieve the password. Trying to get it sorted with the mods at the moment.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 12, 2012)

SimonC said:
			
		

> I couldn't use the Spymaster account as I don't have access to the email account that I used to set it up to retrieve the password. Trying to get it sorted with the mods at the moment.



Idiot


----------



## SimonC (Dec 12, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Idiot


 
Daft and silly too.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 12, 2012)

SimonC said:


> I don't think you have a clue what you're saying, tbh.


 
OK let's review seeing as you have plucked all of these out if context.

That first quote was to people who can't count out their change a little at a time, for people who can't bare to look at change in their pocket, for people who just can't deal with it on a day to day basis.



SimonC said:


> You also said to FM:.


 
Yes, what I was saying here is actually FACT.
I was saying £100 worth of change is that the exact same sum as £100 in the bank.
As I have mentioned before, the behavioral element of how change is viewed is what I think of as idiotic. The behavioral human element only comes into play after the 'fact' that change equals the exact some it makes up in notes, a cheque or whatever. I was never discussing that.

I certainly (and I am sure others too) do not view change in that way or shop in that manner, in the very same way that you and others do change shopping habits due to the form their money takes.

This has already been gone over several times. Check back if you need to, I have already made this point twice today.

Here are the facts.
£100 in change in a jar on your bedside table is the same amount as £100 in your bank account.
If you spend your change as and when you can it does not amass. The money that you didn't amass in change still exists. You still have it.
You do not have to spend change just because you have it. Lot's of people don't.


----------



## StoneRoad (Dec 12, 2012)

If you do have small change that you do not want to keep - either in your pocket/purse or in a "change jar" - I have a serious suggestion.....
.....put it in a charity box, such as an RNLI collection box !
As someone who looks after quite a few of these, I can safely say that every penny is most welcome.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 12, 2012)

StoneRoad said:
			
		

> If you do have small change that you do not want to keep - either in your pocket/purse or in a "change jar" - I have a serious suggestion.....
> .....put it in a charity box, such as an RNLI collection box !
> As someone who looks after quite a few of these, I can safely say that every penny is most welcome.



Daft


----------



## SimonC (Dec 12, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I was saying £100 worth of change is that the exact same sum as £100 in the bank.


 
But it has a different utility.



> As I have mentioned before, the behavioral element of how change is viewed is what I think of as idiotic. The behavioral human element only comes into play after the 'fact' that change equals the exact some it makes up in notes, a cheque or whatever. I was never discussing that.


 
This is half-witted pish.



> I certainly (and I am sure others too) do not view change in that way or shop in that manner, in the very same way that you and others do change shopping habits due to the form their money takes.


 
Unintelligable.



> If you spend your change as and when you can it does not amass.* The money that you didn't amass in change still exists.*


 
 This is what you're not getting. Over the same time that you'd have amassed the change, most people would have spent the money in the bank on other stuff.

*Therefore it DOES NOT still exist. *You may have acquired other things but the money itself is gone.

You simply don't understand the concept of saving money.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Why the name change?


 
What name change?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 12, 2012)

SimonC said:


> But it has a different utility.
> 
> .


 
First of all money is money. I personally don't think of it being in different forms as having a different utility, though I do see (of course) how (for whatever reason) might. 
Secondly, (once again) that was not the argument you jumped into. 
Jesus do I really have to write it again? 
Saving money from the change in your pocket, saves no more money than if you spent the change. 
. . . and before you ignore it again . . . this is before taking into account any perceived or otherwise 'human element' that may or may not be a factor on any one persons buying habits. 



SimonC said:


> This is half-witted pish.
> .


 
Nice one. 
So you don't think it is foolish to spend your money in different ways depending on how it presents itself to you? 



SimonC said:


> Unintelligable.
> 
> .


Not really, let me break it down for you again. 
I don't view change and shop with it in the way that you describe. I am sure there are others that don't too. 
People are different and do things (for instance shop) in different ways. That is why this element was never an actual part of what was being discussed here. 



SimonC said:


> B
> This is what you're not getting. Over the same time that you'd have amassed the change, most people would have spent the money in the bank on other stuff..


 
ARRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhh.
OK I am going to have to just leave you here. You simply do not grasp this. 
THIS IS NOT WHAT THE DISCUSSION WAS ABOUT (See above . . . and above and above) 
Not everyone will do this. I certainly don't, and I think it is foolish to change your spending habits because of the amount of change in your pockets. I (and I am sure I am not alone) buy stuff when I feel like, or need to buy stuff. I don't look in my pockets first. 
People act in different ways, this is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that if a person did act in a different way then 'yes' the money might be spend differently, that is the idiotic bit. Don't spend money differently just because it is change (or otherwise). 



SimonC said:


> *Therefore it DOES NOT still exist. *You may have acquired other things but the money itself is gone.
> .


 
. . .and finally. No.
I personally would not have bought 'other things'. This however again is irrelevant, as all I am saying is that if you did buy other things just because it is strange, then that was a silly thing to do. 



SimonC said:


> You simply don't understand the concept of saving money.


 
Of course I do. I just save what I have in my pocket first, then what's in the bank. I personally don't have to put my money in a jar to think of it as 'saved' and I don't need to put change into a jar to stop myself from spending it on something I don't want or need. 

Other people do it differently 'shock'. Yes I know this and have already explained many times that I understand, I just think its daft.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 12, 2012)

Change must come from within

[/Dalai Lama]


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 12, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> First of all money is money. I personally don't think of it being in different forms as having a different utility, though I do see (of course) how (for whatever reason) might.


 
Then you're stupid.



> Saving money from the change in your pocket, saves no more money than if you spent the change.
> . . . and before you ignore it again . . . this is before taking into account any perceived or otherwise 'human element' that may or may not be a factor on any one persons buying habits.


 
The "human element" as you put it is totally significant. To ignore it is daft, silly, and idiotic.



> So you don't think it is foolish to spend your money in different ways depending on how it presents itself to you?


 
Of course not. Money is used in different ways for different reasons all the time.



> I don't view change and shop with it in the way that you describe. I am sure there are others that don't too.
> People are different and do things (for instance shop) in different ways. That is why this element was never an actual part of what was being discussed here.


 
Nope. You're still confusing yourself.



> ARRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhh.
> OK I am going to have to just leave you here. You simply do not grasp this.
> THIS IS NOT WHAT THE DISCUSSION WAS ABOUT (See above . . . and above and above)
> Not everyone will do this. I certainly don't, and I think it is foolish to change your spending habits because of the amount of change in your pockets.


 
I'm grasping it fine. You're just talking shit. Why is it "foolish" to adapt ones spending behaviour according to circumstances?



> I (and I am sure I am not alone) buy stuff when I feel like, or need to buy stuff. I don't look in my pockets first.
> People act in different ways, this is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that if a person did act in a different way then 'yes' the money might be spend differently, that is the idiotic bit. Don't spend money differently just because it is change (or otherwise).
> 
> 
> ...


 




> Of course I do. I just save what I have in my pocket first, then what's in the bank. I personally don't have to put my money in a jar to think of it as 'saved' and I don't need to put change into a jar to stop myself from spending it on something I don't want or need.
> 
> Other people do it differently 'shock'. Yes I know this and have already explained many times that I understand, I just think its daft.


 
"People are daft because they don't do what I do".

This is why people react to you the way they do. You are a chippy little penis.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 12, 2012)

IT DOESN'T MATTER


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 12, 2012)

OK, this is my last one.



Spymaster said:


> Then you're stupid.


No you are.



Spymaster said:


> The "human element" as you put it is totally significant. To ignore it is daft, silly, and idiotic.
> 
> .




I'm not ignoring it. It's not the bit that was ever being argued about. I think this has been spelled out enough and you are just being silly now. 



Spymaster said:


> Of course not. Money is used in different ways for different reasons all the time.
> 
> .




But money is just money. Anyway, again if you are going to attempt to argue with me about something at least get what I am arguing about straight. 


Spymaster said:


> Nope. You're still confusing yourself.




How so? Are you telling me I am confused about the way 'I' shop? There are at least two other people that do things the same way on this thread alone. 



Spymaster said:


> I'm grasping it fine. You're just talking shit. Why is it "foolish" to adapt ones spending behaviour according to circumstances?
> 
> .




OK, I seen now that you either really don't get it or this is just another attempt to lay into me without worrying about if you look stupid or not. 
I don't think it is foolish to 'adapt ones spending behavior to circumstances'. I do think it's foolish to spend money one something just because you happen to have the money in your pocket. We are talking specifically about the form the money comes in as the 'change in circumstances', that's not 'really' a change in 'circumstances' now is it. Don't twist my words. 




Spymaster said:


> T





Spymaster said:


> "People are daft because they don't do what I do".




No. One more time, I think that it is daft to think about money in a different way because it comes in a different form. 
I do many 'daft' things, and have many friends that have attitudes to money that I consider 'daft'. You sound oddly bitter, and really seem to be working yourself up about all this. The double odd thing is that you are arguing about points that I am not even making and for the last page I have just been arguing with you about what you think we are arguing about. 



Spymaster said:


> This is why people react to you the way they do. You are a chippy little penis.




Why again, do you have to so be unnecessarily rude. 
I would love to say "If I am being a chippy penis because I simply don't agree with how you see things, then are we any different?", but we are not even arguing about the same bloody thing, and you actually had to twist my words to make it look like I said something just so that you could have a go at me about it. 
. . . and very much in the same way that not everyone collects their change in a jar - four idiots on an internet board isn't 'all people'.





Unless you are a complete moron you must have it by now, so I assume you are just being 'internet hilarious'.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 12, 2012)

Why are people so nakedly hostile to AS? What has he done to aggravate some of you so?


----------



## zenie (Dec 12, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Why are people so nakedly hostile to AS? What has he done to aggravate some of you so?


 
Just banter innit? Same as with you


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 12, 2012)

Recently it seems a little over the top though. Firky and Spymaster and Badgers are being right cunts to him. And two of those people are normally not like that all.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 13, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm not ignoring it. It's not the bit that was ever being argued about. I think this has been spelled out enough and you are just being silly now.


 
You're first post on this thread suggested a couple of reasons why people would keep a change jar and concluded that they were "idiots". You've since been attempting various acrobatics to insist that you didn't actually mean this.



> But money is just money.


 
No. It's not. It exists in different forms and is used in various ways.



> How so? Are you telling me I am confused about the way 'I' shop?


 
No I'm telling you that you're argument is confused.



> I do think it's foolish to spend money one something just because you happen to have the money in your pocket.


 
Which is relevant, how?


> Why again, do you have to so be unnecessarily rude.


 
Yes, that was unnecessary. My apologies.



> ... and very much in the same way that not everyone collects their change in a jar - four idiots on an internet board isn't 'all people'.


 
So they _are_ idiots after all?


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Why are people so nakedly hostile to AS? What has he done to aggravate some of you so?


 
It's his manner. If he's going to call people idiots for doing perfectly reasonable things he's going to get ripped into. His total inability to view things from another perspective and his constant insistence that he's right _is_ aggravating. Especially when he's wrong.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

we are all idiots


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> we are all idiots


 
Speak for yourself.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2012)

Spymaster said:


> It's his manner. If he's going to insist that people are idiots for doing perfectly reasonable things he's going to get ripped into.


i find his manner quite endearing, especially his hilarious dissection of silly pictures on the bandwidth thread, yet people mistake it for grumpy pedantry,


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 13, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> i find his manner quite endearing ...


 
Which would be fine if you were the only person he engaged with.


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 13, 2012)

zenie said:


> Just banter innit? Same as with you


 
It's gone beyond banter and it seems to be on every/virtually every thread he posts on. It's heading towards bullying imo  I'm glad others are noticing it too though.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 13, 2012)

geminisnake said:


> It's gone beyond banter and it seems to be on every/virtually every thread he posts on. It's heading towards bullying imo  I'm glad others are noticing it too though.


 
Eh? How's that then?

He comes onto a thread, insults people, insists he's right, and when he gets pulled he's being bullied?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Dec 13, 2012)

I tried to pay for some of my train tickets today by using some coppers and the machine no longer takes them! 5p is the smallest denomination they take. I have had to bring them home. Whether they will go in a jar is between me and the jar


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 13, 2012)

Spymaster said:


> Eh? How's that then?
> 
> He comes onto a thread, insults people, insists he's right, and when he gets pulled he's being bullied?


 
He hasn't done that on every thread he's been on since the leather thread but I'm not going to argue about it because I truly can't be bothered. There are more important worries in my world atm


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 13, 2012)

geminisnake said:


> He hasn't done that on every thread he's been on since the leather thread but I'm not going to argue about it because I truly can't be bothered.


 
Ok, well I don't think I've posted to him on* any* thread that I can recall since the leather thread, and seeing that it only seems to be me that's getting into him, I shall assume that he is not being bullied here, and that you're referring to others elsewhere.


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 13, 2012)

Reread OU's posts further up  214 and 216


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 13, 2012)

geminisnake said:


> Reread OU's posts further up  214 and 216


 
I've explained 214 and I've no idea what he's on about in 216. I've not even noticed Firky or Badgers posting on this thread and as I said, I haven't posted to AS on any others since leathergate.

AS has been a cock here so it doesn't surprise me that others have found similar previously. Let him fight his own battles.

Crikey, if you think this is harsh be sure to stay well clear of P&P!


----------



## Reno (Dec 13, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Wow, you aren't even reading my posts but can still declare how 'wrong' I am.
> I don't carry around pockets full of change. I spend it as I go. Right now I have two tens, a twenty, a five, 2p and 1p.
> It takes no longer for me to count out money than it does for someone to open a till and count out the change of a fiver (or whatever). Buy something for £3.26, hand them a fiver, if you have the 26p you get a nice round £2 change. Do this everywhere and change does not build up.
> 1 & 2ps rarely accumulate more than 5p five rarely more than 15p etc etc.
> ...


I tend to do the same. If I can pay for something with small change then I will, ideally when there isn't a big queue behind me. I also have a savings jar, but it's not very full because of spending the change when my wallet gets heavy. I fail to understand how anybody could see this as wrong.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 13, 2012)

I'd like to point out I never even read that leather thread let alone posted on it


----------



## Ponyutd (Dec 14, 2012)

There's a leather thread!?


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 14, 2012)

Ponyutd said:


> There's a leather thread!?


 

It's really not worth more than a skim-read if you weren't there at the time.

Can I go mudlarking with you, Pony?


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 14, 2012)

Spymaster said:


> Crikey, if you think this is harsh be sure to stay well clear of P&P!


 
I do


----------



## Ponyutd (Dec 15, 2012)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Guitarist-finds-85-sofa-looking-plectrum.html.. Coincidence?...of course it is.

Spymaster, no problem. There is another on here that is coming down to the river. A threesome is looking good.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 15, 2012)

Ponyutd said:


> Spymaster, no problem. There is another on here that is coming down to the river. A threesome is looking good.



Nice one. When are you going next and what do I need besides a pair of wellies?


----------

