# ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE - what's that all about?



## chico enrico (Sep 7, 2009)

just watched THIS on youtube :



i'm confused 

what are they all about? i'd never heard of them before and whilst my initial reaction would be to think they were some sort of BNP front group, their banners and placards would suggest otherwise.

Also, a few years ago I went along to a NF anti-muslim march. for a laugh and to take the piss. and there was a big mob there called something like the United British Alliance who basically LOOKED like a far right group only with more Stone Island clobber and less of the child molestor/cat strangler types that nazi groups usually attract. basically they just looked like a big football firm and sure their banner said something like "against racist - for britain" or suchlike. 

not that i saw many black/asian faces amongst them, or this EDL lot.

so what are they all about?

(and apologies if this topic has been done before - i'm a bit out the loop when it comes to politics these days)


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## strung out (Sep 7, 2009)

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=297175


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## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 8, 2009)

Was looking at Y-Front just now and they were moaning about them flying an Israel flag and allowing black and asian people who were 'for england' to join.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 8, 2009)

bunch of far right 'we aint rascist honestly guv' boneheads who are apparently protesting against sharia law. They should fuck off somewhere that actually has sharia law imo


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 8, 2009)

They're not racists, they just help out when racists need a hand.


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## butchersapron (Sep 8, 2009)

chico enrico said:


> basically they just looked like a big football firm and sure their banner said something like "against racist - for britain" or suchlike.



One prominent one that day was '_One nation - many races_'. The UBA as was was picked up by some more ideologically political types hoping to take advantage of the incoherence of the orignal UBA. When unable to take over the name proper set up their own little outfits, most of these _new_ ones are not proper hoolies, they're mostly the green-street generation, but some of the old faces are still around.


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## fogbat (Sep 8, 2009)

According to some stuff of theirs I've read, they're fed up of Muslims "taking the piss".

They're rather vague about how said piss is taken


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## Spion (Sep 8, 2009)

fogbat said:


> They're rather vague about how said piss is taken


I think the fact they live in the UK is a bit much for them


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## Shevek (Sep 8, 2009)

chico enrico said:


> just watched THIS on youtube :
> 
> 
> 
> ...




sorry couldn't face watching the whole thing. I dont claim to understand it either though.


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## trevhagl (Sep 9, 2009)

chico enrico said:


> just watched THIS on youtube :
> 
> 
> 
> ...




would it be rude to ask what a mulsim is?


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## trevhagl (Sep 9, 2009)

Shevek said:


> sorry couldn't face watching the whole thing. I dont claim to understand it either though.




well if you ever manage to understand it it can you explain it to ME! That was one of the wierdest videos i've ever seen. Did ya see the spokesman had a Red Hot Chili Peppers tshirt on!???


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## Bajie (Sep 10, 2009)

They want stuff to stop, but apart from telling the people concerned to stop it, they are not sure what else to do about it.

In other words:


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## behemoth (Sep 10, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> They should fuck off somewhere that actually has sharia law imo


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4749183.ece


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## Nigel (Sep 10, 2009)

*Rule Of Thumb*

Think it is a bit dodgy that 'domestic violence' cases are brought under civil proceedings of any kind, especially without any compensation given.
Surely assault and/or harrasement would be considered a criminal offence.


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## behemoth (Sep 10, 2009)

My understanding is nowadays the police can and will prosecute for domestic violence even if the woman doesn't want them to.  Will there now be pressure applied to not do so?  Equally worrying is the inheritance issue.  Were the women advised legally they were likely to get less than men, and was any undue pressure applied to go down this route?  Would a proper court be allowed to overturn such rulings?  I was also unaware of Jewish courts.


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## Nigel (Sep 10, 2009)

As far as a I can work out the inheritence/divorce issue works in the favour of the divorcee, nullifying marriages and arrangements that would take years to deal with otherwise, most dowrys would go to family.


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## purplex (Sep 10, 2009)

fogbat said:


> According to some stuff of theirs I've read, they're fed up of Muslims "taking the piss".
> 
> They're rather vague about how said piss is taken



The usual stuff

Protesting in returning soldiers faces
Implementing sharia law 
Committing and plotting terrorist outrages and covering up for those that do
Supporting Al-Qaeda
Attempting to force their culture onto us (banning christmas etc.)

Check out paul rays lionheart blog for further reasons to be outraged at them muslims.


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## frogwoman (Sep 11, 2009)

Same shit's been going on for Jewish courts for some years now (and the people who use them also tend to be fundamentalist wankers), either have none or have some Muslim courts as well.


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## Diamond (Sep 11, 2009)

I'd argue for none. The French have the right idea. We need a secular state.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 11, 2009)

Diamond said:


> I'd argue for none. The French have the right idea. We need a secular state.



I don't mind religious courts so long as they are subservient to a secular judiciary so that there is basically a right to appeal to a secular crown court. Which is how it is currently afaik


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## Fictionist (Sep 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I don't mind religious courts so long as they are subservient to a secular judiciary so that there is basically a right to appeal to a secular crown court. Which is how it is currently afaik



The problem lies in the process when religious law is seen as being above any secular law - thereby rendering any appeal to secular law meaningless. In practical terms this might mean that an apellant seeking redress within a secular context (perhaps after engaging with a religious framework) would find themselves dislocated from a community that shares in the belief that religion is all. And therein is the rub.


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## kenny g (Sep 11, 2009)

Fictionist said:


> The problem lies in the process when religious law is seen as being above any secular law - thereby rendering any appeal to secular law meaningless. In practical terms this might mean that an apellant seeking redress within a secular context (perhaps after engaging with a religious framework) would find themselves dislocated from a community that shares in the belief that religion is all. And therein is the rub.



Well if the community feels that way how are you going to stop them? If people wish to belong to a community or organisation I think that community or organisation can be given the right to have its own tribunals / courts etc as long as there is the right of appeal through such mechanisms as judicial review  to a higher Court outside the organisation. 

Some of he arguments being used against Sharia Courts were used against people such as the Tolpuddle Martyres due to their alleged use of oaths etc. 

At the end of the day much of the way that islam is practiced is non-sensical but the same goes for a whole host of belief systems. Personally I have no problems with Sharia Courts for consenting parties in the UK. I do , however object to people preaching bollocks to impressionable teenagers in order to encourage them to kill innocents. The latter is done by a few small sects who have been allowed to get away with it for far too long.


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## Diamond (Sep 12, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I don't mind religious courts so long as they are subservient to a secular judiciary so that there is basically a right to appeal to a secular crown court. Which is how it is currently afaik



That still rankles with me. The idea of one set of laws being subservient to another different set of laws. We need consistency throughout.


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## likesfish (Sep 12, 2009)

appears top be people who just want to have a ruck with brown people


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2009)

likesfish said:


> appears top be people who just want to have a ruck with brown people



It's 'Paki bashing' under the guise of 'peaceful protest' from where I'm sitting.


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## likesfish (Sep 12, 2009)

football hooligans looking for more trouble and racist thugs.


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## Badger Kitten (Sep 12, 2009)

*EDL 'like blackshirts', says Communities Minister*

Protesters compared to blackshirts

(UKPA) – 9 hours ago

A Cabinet minister has raised fears of a return to 1930s fascism, comparing modern right-wing groups to Oswald Mosley's Blackshirts.

Communities Secretary John Denham's comments came as he announced a drive to prevent white working class people being "exploited" by extremists.

He singled out protests being organised by the English Defence League, some of which have turned violent over recent months, with hundreds of supporters expected to gather in Trafalgar Square on Sunday.

Protesters from the Stop Islamisation of Europe (SIOE) group were involved in a demonstration outside a mosque in Harrow, north east London, to mark the anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

"I think that the English Defence League and other organisations are not actually large numbers of people," Mr Denham told the Guardian. "They clearly, though, have among them people who know what exactly they're doing.

"If you look at the types of demonstrations they've organised... it looks pretty clear that it's a tactic designed to provoke and to get a response and hopefully create violence."

Mr Denham pointed to historical "parallels" with the so-called 'Battle of Cable Street' in October 1936, when Mosley, leader of the British Union of Fascists, attempted to lead supporters through a Jewish area of the East End of London, leading to violent clashes.

"You could go back to the 1930s if you wanted to - Cable Street and all of those types of things. The tactic of trying to provoke a response in the hope of causing wider violence and mayhem is long established on the far-right and among extremist groups."

EDL's supporters are alleged to include far-right activists and football hooligans filmed at recent protests chanting racist slogans and making Nazi salutes. Mr Denham said there was a need for a broader strategy from government to "undercut issues that racists try to exploit".

In the coming weeks ministers will unveil a programme targeted at mainly white, working-class communities, he said. "You need to be prepared to let people's real underlying fears and concerns come out, but to be able to address them frankly and openly."

see also
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8251958.stm


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## El Jefe (Sep 12, 2009)

they were all over breakfast news this morning


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## tbaldwin (Sep 12, 2009)

On radio 5 edl spokesperson has said the leader of the edl youth wing is Black does anyone know if thats true?


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## Pickman's model (Sep 12, 2009)

well, there's an ad on the edl forum site for a moslem matrimonial agency so i suppose anything's possible


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2009)

Badger Kitten said:


> Protesters compared to blackshirts
> 
> (UKPA) – 9 hours ago



Basically summarised as "Look! Look at them! Vote Labour or that's what you'll get! LOOK!!!!"


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## ExtraRefined (Sep 13, 2009)

lol


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## Raw SslaC (Sep 13, 2009)

tbaldwin said:


> On radio 5 edl spokesperson has said the leader of the edl youth wing is Black does anyone know if thats true?



The guy is mixed race. His name is Joel from Arsenal. On FaceBook he has been consistent in throwing off neo-nazi's and racists from their groups.


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## the button (Sep 13, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Basically summarised as "Look! Look at them! Vote Labour or that's what you'll get! LOOK!!!!"



Innit. Truly pathetic.


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## DeepStoat (Sep 13, 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180404575974#ht_1756wt_958

Black nationalist shirt anyone?


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## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2009)

DeepStoat said:


> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180404575974#ht_1756wt_958
> 
> Black nationalist shirt anyone?


that's not a black nationalist shirt  a black nationalist shirt would have someone like elijah muhammed on it


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## DeepStoat (Sep 13, 2009)

Pickman's model said:


> that's not a black nationalist shirt  a black nationalist shirt would have someone like elijah muhammed on it



Ba bom tish!


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## DeepStoat (Sep 13, 2009)

So it's supposed to kick off today in London.

After that Manchester. I think I may have to make an effort.


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## ExtraRefined (Sep 13, 2009)

DeepStoat said:


> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180404575974#ht_1756wt_958
> 
> Black nationalist shirt anyone?



Why are they bothering to offer them in any size other than 4XL?


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## kenny g (Sep 13, 2009)

Choudrey's invite to debate


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

Raw SslaC said:


> The guy is mixed race. His name is Joel from Arsenal. On FaceBook he has been consistent in throwing off neo-nazi's and racists from their groups.



Quite interesting. Especially given the amount of people who seem to believe that everyone in edl are just racists really.


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## Balbi (Sep 13, 2009)

As i've said on the general forum thread - even if the EDL are faux political hoolies looking for a ruck, the fact they'll find that ruck in the UAF will only damage the UAF's attempts to oppose the BNP in the eyes of the public.

I'm a paranoid little so and so, this whole thing could be a masterstroke of misdirection by someone in the BNP. If it isn't, it's like one of those breaks that fascists always seem to bloody get


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## DeepStoat (Sep 13, 2009)

Any news on their London escapade today?


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## Balbi (Sep 13, 2009)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/13/english-defence-league-protest-palestinian


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## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2009)

Nice to see a pro-iranian theocracy march described as 'pro-palstinian'. Like a a BNP march is just pro-Israel.


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## Balbi (Sep 13, 2009)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hnBpCJ6FfMnxWEze3Y-M3iFE-h_w

Iranian counter-protestors, pro-Palestine protestors and the EDL.


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## behemoth (Sep 13, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I don't mind religious courts so long as they are subservient to a secular judiciary so that there is basically a right to appeal to a secular crown court. Which is how it is currently afaik


So you have no problem with courts that hand out illegal judgements to brown women.  How about Christian courts making illegal judgements against gays?  Or blacks?  

Strange to see people on the left bending over backwards to justify discrimination.  No wonder so many vote BNP and support nutters like these.


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## Blagsta (Sep 13, 2009)

behemoth said:


> So you have no problem with courts that hand out illegal judgements to brown women.  How about Christian courts making illegal judgements against gays?  Or blacks?
> 
> Strange to see people on the left bending over backwards to justify discrimination.  No wonder so many vote BNP and support nutters like these.



AFAIK, religous courts still have to obey the laws of the land.


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

Blagsta said:


> AFAIK, religous courts still have to obey the laws of the land.



Problem is the more closed off people are like some hassidic jews and hardline muslims the less likely it is that people will have that as an option.


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

tbaldwin said:


> Quite interesting. Especially given the amount of people who seem to believe that everyone in edl are just racists really.




Racist against Islam, or anyone else who doesn't live "The English Way"....


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> Racist against Islam, or anyone else who doesn't live "The English Way"....



Thats not racist is it?


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## Spion (Sep 13, 2009)

Apparently the EDL roadshow is set for Leeds on 31 Oct


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## DeepStoat (Sep 13, 2009)

Spion said:


> Apparently the EDL roadshow is set for Leeds on 31 Oct



....and Manchester on the 10th


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

tbaldwin said:


> Thats not racist is it?



Isn't it?....


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> Isn't it?....



I don't think so really. I always understood racism as being about judging people on the basis of their skin colour. I think you could call it scapegoating or xenophobic but not really racist.


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## Spion (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> Racist against Islam, or anyone else who doesn't live "The English Way"....





tbaldwin said:


> Thats not racist is it?


These days, in your world, Baldwin, it's racist to be anti-racist I expect


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> Isn't it?....



If it's just bigoted stereotyping of people, but not _directly attributable to race_, it's okay. It's okay to go somewhere and shout at all Muslims because of bombs or whatever, because that's not racism.

Apparently.


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

Racism is about more than *just* skin colour though.. isn't it?   it's about culture, it's about believing that their race is superior to another persons race... and race is about more than just skin colour... or it's becoming so...


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If it's just bigoted stereotyping of people, but not _directly attributable to race_, it's okay. It's okay to go somewhere and shout at all Muslims because of bombs or whatever, because that's not racism.
> 
> Apparently.




Thinly veiled racism(no-pun intended), isn't really racism at all... it's anti-anti-Englishism


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> Racism is about more than *just* skin colour though.. isn't it?   it's about culture, it's about believing that their race is superior to another persons race... and race is about more than just skin colour... or it's becoming so...



I dont think so. I think your mixing two things up. Prejudice can be based on cultural things too. There can be a cross over at times but to suggest that all cultural prejudice is based on racism is wrong.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> Racism is about more than *just* skin colour though.. isn't it?   it's about culture, it's about believing that their race is superior to another persons race... and race is about more than just skin colour... or it's becoming so...



I completely agree; racism is more than skin colour, that's a weird interpretation (based on slavery I would argue) - is anti-Irish discrimination not racism? Anti-semitism?

As well as that though, I think some people have forgotten why "racism" is bad. It's because it's applying unwarranted prejudices to a large group of people based not on what they have done, but on the basis of some other irrelevant characteristic. Even if this lot really *were* just about "Muslims" as opposed to it really meaning "Asians" (and some will be) it's still just as bad.


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

tbaldwin said:


> I dont think so. I think your mixing two things up. Prejudice can be based on cultural things too. There can be a cross over at times but to suggest that all cultural prejudice is based on racism is wrong.




Well the dictionary is ALSO mixing two things up then... because it agrees that racism is about culture... what is that then?... culturism?


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I completely agree; racism is more than skin colour, that's a weird interpretation (based on slavery I would argue) - is anti-Irish discrimination not racism? Anti-semitism?
> 
> As well as that though, I think some people have forgotten why "racism" is bad. It's because it's applying unwarranted prejudices to a large group of people based not on what they have done, but on the basis of some other irrelevant characteristic. Even if this lot really *were* just about "Muslims" as opposed to it really meaning "Asians" (and some will be) it's still just as bad.



Blaming the many, for the "sins" of the few... tarring all Muslims with the same brush...to these people... you're ok if you eat the same food as "us", wear the same clothes as "us", speak the same language as "us", and live the same way as "us"... if you don't... then you're NOT "us"...you're "them"...


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I completely agree; racism is more than skin colour, QUOTE]
> 
> Really?
> I can understand why you and others think some racists would use the word muslims because there afraid to say pakis etc.
> ...


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> Well the dictionary is ALSO mixing two things up then... because it agrees that racism is about culture... what is that then?... culturism?



Cultural prejudice. And lets face when it comes to the UK it is hardly limited to people not liking people based on their religion.


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

You think this EDL crap is _really_ only about "Islamic fundamentalism" do you?...gosh...you're easy to fool... can you lend me a million quid.. promise i'll pay it back


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

tbaldwin said:


> Cultural prejudice. And lets face when it comes to the UK it is hardly limited to people not liking people based on their religion.



true... bet this lot can't stand gays, either

does that make it OK then?....


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2009)

tbaldwin said:


> i really don't get how you think that everybody who expresses fears about the spread of muslim fundamentalism is some kind of racist or closet racist.



except I didn't say that or anything anywhere near it


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

Fair play to em though to be honest... that video does rather make out they're not racist, or homophobic...they even got banners _saying_ so...


Wonder where they left this lot while they were filming that bit though?...







now, call me judgemental... but if I saw this lot coming towards me, I'd be making all sorts of snap judgements about their intentions....


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> You think this EDL crap is _really_ only about "Islamic fundamentalism" do you?...gosh...you're easy to fool... can you lend me a million quid.. promise i'll pay it back



Probably a bit more complex than that. And also a bit more complex than there all closet racists really..... 
Sorry not got a spare milllion at the moment.


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> true... bet this lot can't stand gays, either
> 
> does that make it OK then?....



Personally i think racism and homophobia are both poison. 
But like you i am hardly without prejudice. Especially cultural prejudice.


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## rabs25 (Sep 13, 2009)

I dont think Islam is race, it covers Africa, Asia and the Middle East. It's more a set of beliefs. The EDL have opposing beliefs and demonstrate to make these beliefs known. I think its a good thing. They are not the BNP. And the organisation don't share the same racist beliefs.


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## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> I dont think Islam is race, it covers Africa, Asia and the Middle East. It's more a set of beliefs. The EDL have opposing beliefs and demonstrate to make these beliefs known. I think its a good thing. They are not the BNP. And the organisation don't share the same racist beliefs.



What's the organisation rabs?

Edit: fair play for coming on if you're EDL - are you?


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

One of the things seldom commented on about muslims is the racism that exists between arab,pakistani and black muslims. One of those issues that a lot of erm anti racists seem to want to brush under the carpet. I guess they feel on much safer ground shouting at white football fans with short hair.


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## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2009)

Commented on by who?


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> I dont think Islam is race, it covers Africa, Asia and the Middle East. It's more a set of beliefs. The EDL have opposing beliefs and demonstrate to make these beliefs known. I think its a good thing. They are not the BNP. And the organisation don't share the same racist beliefs.



They share the same anti-islamic beliefs though... "Ban the burka"... why?... "No more mosques"... why?

and I quote "They can fuck off back where they came from"... Course they're not BNP...they have different initials for starters


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

butchersapron said:


> Commented on by who?



It seems to be commented on very little by anybody in the media and once when i raised the issue of racial segregation of mosques on urban people jumped to all kinds of lazy assumptions.


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## rabs25 (Sep 13, 2009)

They have black members.  They are making big efforts to be seen to be none racist.  They are kicking racists from their forums and Facebook pages.  As I understood it they are anti radical Islam not anti Islam.  A liberal should be against radical Islam because of it's beliefs.

Islam practised like C of E isnt going to cause many problems but that's not the kind they are protesting against.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2009)

Can you save me the effort of checking the referer logs? I'll have to wait a bit before I can.


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

racial segregation of mosques?.... must've missed that conversation.... 

what's that all about then?..


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> racial segregation of mosques?.... must've missed that conversation....
> 
> what's that all about then?..



About the way most mosques in the UK serve distinct groups eg you have mosques for Blacks,Turks,Arabs and Pakistanis.
Inter marriage is very very rare between those different groups of muslims as im sure you know. An arab girl who went out with a pakistani or african muslim could run the risk of all kinds of horrible things as you probably also know.


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

I wouldn't say it was as rare as many seem to think it is...

Where's the thread?... I'd be interested in seeing it...


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=167272

for city girl....


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2009)

lol


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)




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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2009)

I did actually lol at that, it was the way that tbaldwin starts the thread, the second post is "" and then on the third post WOW goes in with "you TROLLING BASTARD!!!!! "

It was a pretty dumb question though. From 2006.


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I did actually lol at that, it was the way that tbaldwin starts the thread, the second post is "" and then on the third post WOW goes in with "you TROLLING BASTARD!!!!! "
> 
> It was a pretty dumb question though.



Actually met William about 6 months after this. Got on fine. I dont think he thought i was a racist after that.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2009)

that thread's proper funny though

For the record I don't think you're a racist either - I reserve the right to point out when I think you post bollocks, however.


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## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

tbaldwin said:


> About the way most mosques in the UK serve distinct groups eg you have mosques for Blacks,Turks,Arabs and Pakistanis.
> Inter marriage is very very rare between those different groups of muslims as im sure you know. An arab girl who went out with a pakistani or african muslim could run the risk of all kinds of horrible things as you probably also know.



Oooooook... well, that sorta goes back a bit.. and on a bit... but i don't think i need to read all of it to be sure of my reply to you...but thanks for taking the time to find that for me 

Is that _just_ a Muslim thing though?.... cus, isn't Islam pretty much the same as _most_ religions, in that sense?...For instance, Christianity is like a parent religion, whereas CofE and Catholicism are the "sects"... and I'm preeeeeetty certain that a devout Catholic wouldn't do well to be marrying an Atheist, for example... they also happen to have very big differences in their "beliefs".. and where and how they worship...so it makes sense that they don't all worship in the same places...

and just as a side issue... you use the word "racial" segregation, when surely, you mean religious?  or cultural?.... after all, by your own definition... race is merely about colour of skin...


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> that thread's proper funny though
> 
> For the record I don't think you're a racist either - I reserve the right to point out when I think you post bollocks, however.



Fair enough. Not a racist and more balls than hitler.


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## tbaldwin (Sep 13, 2009)

citygirl said:


> Oooooook... well, that sorta goes back a bit.. and on a bit... but i don't think i need to read all of it to be sure of my reply to you...but thanks for taking the time to find that for me
> 
> Is that _just_ a Muslim thing though?.... cus, isn't Islam pretty much the same as _most_ religions, in that sense?...For instance, Christianity is like a parent religion, whereas CofE and Catholicism are the "sects"... and I'm preeeeeetty certain that a devout Catholic wouldn't do well to be marrying an Atheist, for example... they also happen to have very big differences in their "beliefs".. and where and how they worship...so it makes sense that they don't all worship in the same places...
> 
> and just as a side issue... you use the word "racial" segregation, when surely, you mean religious?  or cultural?.... after all, by your own definition... race is merely about colour of skin...



I think that the issues of why many pakistani muslims would not marry african muslims are racial not cultural. They look down on people based on the colour of their skin. And many arabs`look down on them.


----------



## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

I rather thunk it might be more down to class, or caste, tbh...


----------



## citygirl (Sep 13, 2009)

The comments underneath that video are funnier than the video itself though...

amongst the insults, ignorance and crap spelling is this peach of a gem pearler...

"I'm looking for kitten videos and I think I'm lost - can anyone direct me to some kitten videos?"


----------



## behemoth (Sep 14, 2009)

Blagsta said:


> AFAIK, religous courts still have to obey the laws of the land.


Is that why they hand out illegal judgements as a matter of course?  Either everyone is equal in the eyes of the law or they aren't.  You can't have it both ways, and you can't have two court systems working on different principles.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 14, 2009)

Last time I was up before the magistrate I swore on the bible. And it's fair to argue that judeo-christian morality underpins our nominally secular courts (plural, cos there's lots of different kinds of courts)


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 14, 2009)

behemoth said:


> *Is that why they hand out illegal judgements as a matter of course? * Either everyone is equal in the eyes of the law or they aren't.  You can't have it both ways, and you can't have two court systems working on different principles.



Do they?  I have no idea tbh.


----------



## smokedout (Sep 14, 2009)

behemoth said:


> Is that why they hand out illegal judgements as a matter of course?  Either everyone is equal in the eyes of the law or they aren't.  You can't have it both ways, and you can't have two court systems working on different principles.



we already do, its called the beth din


----------



## behemoth (Sep 14, 2009)

Blagsta said:


> Do they?  I have no idea tbh.


You have no idea what judgements are handed out but still think it's OK.


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 14, 2009)

behemoth said:


> You have no idea what judgements are handed out but still think it's OK.



If you can provide me with something where I can find out, I'm all ears.


----------



## purplex (Sep 14, 2009)

tbaldwin said:


> About the way most mosques in the UK serve distinct groups eg you have mosques for Blacks,Turks,Arabs and Pakistanis.



I raised this issue with a muslim last week and his response was that in the eyes of allah all muslims are the same, many smaller towns have only a single mosque so there is no choice but to share it.


----------



## kyser_soze (Sep 14, 2009)

> As well as that though, I think some people have forgotten why "racism" is bad. It's because it's applying unwarranted prejudices to a large group of people based not on what they have done, but on the basis of some other irrelevant characteristic. Even if this lot really *were* just about "Muslims" as opposed to it really meaning "Asians" (and some will be) it's still just as bad.



You forgot the clause that says 'Depending on the power relationship between the two parties, it is possible to say 'All Americans are ignorant fat bastards' and not be racist, and say 'All Africans are ignorant fat bastards' and be racist.

FWIW I don't think that there should be any religious courts like the Beth Din, Sharia or whatever the Anglican equivalent is. One set of secular laws for all (and if that means disestablishing the CofE so much the better); the commerce argument is bollocks because if there are specific relgious rules regarding contracts they can either be observed independently, or incorporated into wider commercial law.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 14, 2009)

An EDL 'protest' as such, this time in London against the 'Quds Day' march organised by the Islamic Human Rights Commission, with the support of Stop the War and other groups. A small number of anti-fascists, reportedly 40 or so in total, gathered in Trafalgar Square Sunday.

According to this report, "EDL cadres" "swaggered" about, "smirking"?

The rest of it reads like an episode from 'International Rescue'.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 14, 2009)

Here we go, some EDL supporters vent their real thoughts in this video.


----------



## Spion (Sep 14, 2009)

MC5 said:


> Here we go, some EDL supporters vent their real thoughts in this video.


Blimey


----------



## citygirl (Sep 14, 2009)

not racist... my arse


----------



## sonny61 (Sep 14, 2009)

MC5 said:


> An EDL 'protest' as such, this time in London against the 'Quds Day' march organised by the Islamic Human Rights Commission, with the support of Stop the War and other groups. A small number of anti-fascists, reportedly 40 or so in total, gathered in Trafalgar Square Sunday.
> 
> According to this report, "EDL cadres" "swaggered" about, "smirking"?
> 
> The rest of it reads like an episode from 'International Rescue'.



Yes your right, it does show the anti fascists in a bad light. Attacking a lone bloke on his own for daring to have an opinion they don't share.
The white lefties though do appear to be a bunch of pussies compared to the young Muslims who are a serious street fighting force.
Notice the Jamaica  flag and  the Indian flag on the EDL Bus?
Not a great video for anti fascists, shows them more of a bunch of bigots than the wanker shouting ''paki'' on the bus.


----------



## Spion (Sep 15, 2009)

sonny61 said:


> Yes your right, it does show the anti fascists in a bad light. Attacking a lone bloke on his own for daring to have an opinion they don't share.
> The white lefties though do appear to be a bunch of pussies compared to the young Muslims who are a serious street fighting force.
> Notice the Jamaica  flag and  the Indian flag on the EDL Bus?
> Not a great video for anti fascists, shows them more of a bunch of bigots than the wanker shouting ''paki'' on the bus.


How wrong can one post be? You're not even commenting on the right video, you fucking moron


----------



## cantsin (Sep 15, 2009)

sonny61 said:


> Yes your right, it does show the anti fascists in a bad light. Attacking a lone bloke on his own for daring to have an opinion they don't share.
> The white lefties though do appear to be a bunch of pussies compared to the young Muslims who are a serious street fighting force.
> Notice the Jamaica  flag and  the Indian flag on the EDL Bus?
> Not a great video for anti fascists, shows them more of a bunch of bigots than the wanker shouting ''paki'' on the bus.



EDl were humilated at Harrow, did fuck all at Trafalgar sqaure , battered in Bmham , and you're on here calling the oppo pussies...you should turn up and show your suport for your boys sometime, they look like they need another keyboard hero


----------



## rabs25 (Sep 15, 2009)

I've not decided to join or not. I'm very interested in them though. If they are really anti racist and pro women's and gays rights and protest peacefully against radical Islam then I fully support them. Moderate Islam I've no problem with. Religion is a private thing between a man and his God. Radical Islam wants to put it in the public sphere and inflict it on secular people.


Please don't anyone go spinning that I'm a BNP Fascist rubbish. The BNP is the communist party with racism and sexism. They cannot ever form an effective government. Their leader seems a very  effective politician but he's the only one in the party. The policies are mostly impractical and some are very offensive to me. I believe in small government and the inalienable rights of man. The BNP wants to increase the sphere of government influence and restrict these rights to members of the UK. This is wrong.  I support their view on restricting immigration. That is all.


On the other hand the UAF are a bunch of thugs. If someone doesn't agree with them they don't allow them to speak. They are censoring the EDL on the basis they think its racist.  I believe in free speech. The UAF does not.

Radical Islam is not a race. Its a stupid and dangerous idea. 

And no I don't support Israel killing people in Palestine. Or vice versa.


----------



## Davo1 (Sep 15, 2009)

> I believe in small government and the inalienable rights of man.



Who are you again? Thomas Jefferson?


----------



## rabs25 (Sep 15, 2009)

Davo1 said:


> Who are you again? Thomas Jefferson?



It was a brilliant idea. It's just as valid today as it was then.  Thomas Paine  popularised it in his pamphlets . Jeffersons genus was  implementing it. He let himself down on slavery though. He was an abolitionist but kept slaves. IMO: He should not have. I don't know the full situation though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine

IMO: good  views on religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke


----------



## tbaldwin (Sep 15, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> I've not decided to join or not. I'm very interested in them though. If they are really anti racist and pro women's and gays rights and protest peacefully against radical Islam then I fully support them. Moderate Islam I've no problem with. Religion is a private thing between a man and his God. Radical Islam wants to put it in the public sphere and inflict it on secular people.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## Davo1 (Sep 15, 2009)

Thomas Jefferson (Tom Paines bestest chum) on 'immigration':



> *They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass.*.. If they come of themselves, they are entitled to all the rights of citizenship: but I doubt the expediency of inviting them by extraordinary encouragements." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.VIII, 1782. ME 2:118



'Roots'. 'Homogeneity'. 'BNP'. 'EDL'.

I quite like a 'distracted mass' myself.


----------



## rabs25 (Sep 15, 2009)

I had to look that up 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism



> "libertarianism holds that agents initially fully own themselves and have moral powers to acquire property rights in external things under certain conditions." It notes that libertarianism is not a “right-wing” doctrine because of its opposition to laws restricting adult consensual sexual relationships and drug use, and its opposition to imposing religious views or practices and compulsory military service.



I agree with that.  It leads to better societies.


----------



## rabs25 (Sep 15, 2009)

Davo1 said:


> Thomas Jefferson (Tom Paines bestest chum) on 'immigration':
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He was not right on everything. I wasn't claiming he had some sort of infallibility. The distracted mass rings true though. Although IMO it's a source of creativity and progress. And the example shows that there are contradictions in the best people. The EDL is like that. The aim is good but it has many contradictions.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 15, 2009)

sonny61 said:


> Yes your right, it does show the anti fascists in a bad light. Attacking a lone bloke on his own for daring to have an opinion they don't share.
> The white lefties though do appear to be a bunch of pussies compared to the young Muslims who are a serious street fighting force.
> Notice the Jamaica  flag and  the Indian flag on the EDL Bus?
> Not a great video for anti fascists, shows them more of a bunch of bigots than the wanker shouting ''paki'' on the bus.




Martin Smith was defending well I thought.

I believe the flags were protection against members of firms who are black and to show solidarity with Hindu nationalists the BJP. 

Not a great video for the dope seig heiling to type as he got on the bus and the one down the alley doing the same, who along with his mates, were making a quick exit.

The smartly dressed man, reportedly a BNP councillor, who appeared briefly going on about the "anti-nazi anarchist league" seemed to have egg on his suit.


----------



## citygirl (Sep 15, 2009)

And it surely is those "contradictions" that has got so many peoples backs up, is it not?....


----------



## audiotech (Sep 15, 2009)

What?


----------



## Spion (Sep 15, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> On the other hand the UAF are a bunch of thugs. If someone doesn't agree with them they don't allow them to speak.


They did speak. They chanted things like 'you dirty muslim bastards' and 'we hate pakis more than you'. Thankfully they didn't act on those sentiments. Are you happy with people like that thretening the rights of minorities to live their lives in peace? Some 'libertarian' you'd be if you did


----------



## sonny61 (Sep 15, 2009)

MC5 said:


> Martin Smith was defending well I thought.
> 
> I believe the flags were protection against members of firms who are black and to show solidarity with Hindu nationalists the BJP.
> 
> ...



The bloke was a Tory councillor, Birmingham does not have any BNP councillors.

This is the danger of how this could end, it is now out of the hands of the SWP/UAF, the Muslims are in charge.
There will be more EDL protests, they are very small in numbers so the police can easy protect them. Large numbers of Muslims turn up for each protest, and then follows the usual confrontation with the police. Followed by pictures in the media of young Muslims throwing missiles at the police, just what the BNP love. Maybe more pictures of Muslims kicking lone white males on the floor, making the BNP even more happy.

The real danger is that in one of these confrontations with the police a Muslim could be badly hurt or killed. Thinking of a Muslim being knocked down while being chased by the police. All one killed or badly injured in a direct confrontation with the police.

Then think not of Bradford type riots of 2001. Think more of Belfast 1969, with Muslim riots in Cities all over the UK.
It does not matter what the SWP/UAF think anymore they are not in control. They have lit the torch paper, it is a question now of whether it goes out or explodes.


----------



## citygirl (Sep 15, 2009)

MC5 said:


> What?



was that for my benefit? MC5... if it was, my post was in reply to the one above yours, sorry.. I didn't see you'd managed to sneak a post directly between us, and hadn't quoted the post, as I thought I hadn't needed to


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 15, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> I had to look that up
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, libertarianism has come to mean the opposite of it's original meaning.


----------



## citygirl (Sep 15, 2009)

Spion said:


> They did speak. They chanted things like 'you dirty muslim bastards' and 'we hate pakis more than you'. Thankfully they didn't act on those sentiments. Are you happy with people like that thretening the rights of minorities to live their lives in peace? Some 'libertarian' you'd be if you did



COOOO-EEEEEEE

I can't PM you back deary, your box is full... and you don't seem to read the community threads 

My PM's been typed and ready to go for ages now


----------



## rabs25 (Sep 15, 2009)

> They did speak. They chanted things like 'you dirty muslim bastards' and 'we hate pakis more than you'. Thankfully they didn't act on those sentiments. Are you happy with people like that thretening the rights of minorities to live their lives in peace



No but I'm opposed to radical islam. And earlier you called someone 



> you fucking moron


  That's offensive  and talking like that is how the problems start.


----------



## Spion (Sep 15, 2009)

citygirl said:


> COOOO-EEEEEEE
> 
> I can't PM you back deary, your box is full... and you don't seem to read the community threads
> 
> My PM's been typed and ready to go for ages now


I've emptied it


----------



## citygirl (Sep 15, 2009)

Phew, thought i was gunna have to cross me legs forever lol


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 15, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> No but I'm opposed to radical islam. And earlier you called someone



Thing is, the way to oppose radical islam isn't to support people like the EDL, it's to endorse, back and support people from within Islam who do speak out against the traditionalists/fundamentalists and who in their own ways have very progressive ideas about it - people like Yasmin Alibhai Brown, who these EDL/BNP types hate as much as anyone else they hate, yet who have also had death threats from Muslims for having progressive ideas towards their own faith or for marrying non-muslim men.

That's how we tackle radical islam.  These EDL types just look like a bunch of thugs.


----------



## tbaldwin (Sep 15, 2009)

upsidedownwalrus said:


> These EDL types just look like a bunch of thugs.



They look a bit like me but nowhere near as good looking to be fair....Not that we should judge anyone by appearances obviously....


----------



## citygirl (Sep 15, 2009)

obviously 

cus that would be silly, wouldn't it?


----------



## audiotech (Sep 15, 2009)

citygirl said:


> was that for my benefit? MC5... if it was, my post was in reply to the one above yours, sorry.. I didn't see you'd managed to sneak a post directly between us, and hadn't quoted the post, as I thought I hadn't needed to


 
no problem citygirl.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 16, 2009)

Does nobody else agree that the main thing is to support as much as possible the genuinely moderate-minded Muslims?  The ones who believe that following the five pillars and so on is the most important thing and that the sexism and homophobia ought to go the same way it mostly has in other religions?

And that people like that will not be favoured by people like the EDL?

(I Know they are probably regarded as Uncle Toms by some strict Muslims)


----------



## rabs25 (Sep 16, 2009)

upsidedownwalrus said:


> Does nobody else agree that the main thing is to support as much as possible the genuinely moderate-minded Muslims?  The ones who believe that following the five pillars and so on is the most important thing and that the sexism and homophobia ought to go the same way it mostly has in other religions?




Good point, I should really support them and the EDL. Radicals cant be reasoned with.

Myth 1: The Islamists/BNP arguments can be defeated through rational argument

Myth 2: Persecution will only feed the Islamists/BNP victim mentality

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/07/bnp-question-time


Politics is war without bloodshed  and in a war you need all your allies.


----------



## tbaldwin (Sep 16, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> Politics is war without bloodshed  and in a war you need all your allies.



Not sure its without bloodshed.

I reckon that most people would like a bit less bloodshed and less inequality.

Sadly though we still live in a world where negative irrational ideas have a hold on millions of people.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 16, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> Good point, I should really support them and the EDL. Radicals cant be reasoned with.
> 
> Myth 1: The Islamists/BNP arguments can be defeated through rational argument
> 
> ...



But the EDL despise all Muslims no matter how genuinely moderate they are... They end up turning the ones who are in favour of liberalising the religions _against_ us and make them more hardline.


----------



## cantsin (Sep 18, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> I've not decided to join or not. I'm very interested in them though.* If they are really anti racist and pro women's and gays rights and protest peacefully against radical Islam then I fully support them. *Moderate Islam I've no problem with. Religion is a private thing between a man and his God. Radical Islam wants to put it in the public sphere and inflict it on secular people.
> 
> 
> Please don't anyone go spinning that I'm a BNP Fascist rubbish. The BNP is the communist party with racism and sexism. They cannot ever form an effective government. Their leader seems a very  effective politician but he's the only one in the party. The policies are mostly impractical and some are very offensive to me. I believe in small government and the inalienable rights of man. The BNP wants to increase the sphere of government influence and restrict these rights to members of the UK. This is wrong.  I support their view on restricting immigration. That is all.
> ...



daft


----------



## citygirl (Sep 18, 2009)

Unfortunately... that's what they're playing on....


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 18, 2009)

Just ask them what they think of Yasmin Alibhai Brown or someone like that and you'll soon see


----------



## citygirl (Sep 18, 2009)

They'd love her, she hates the burqa


----------



## rabs25 (Sep 19, 2009)

In my book she's ok  as regards her views on radical muslims. I'm impressed with her.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...whod-be-female-under-islamic-law-1678549.html



> I am a Muslim woman and, like my late mother, free, independent, sensuous, educated, liberal, contrary and confrontational when provoked, both feminine and feminist. I style and colour my hair, wear lovely things and perfumes, appear on public platforms with men who are not related to me, shake their hands, embrace some I know well, take care of my family.
> 
> I defend Muslims persecuted by their enemies and their own kith and kin. I pray, fast, give to charity and try to be a decent human being. I also drink wine and do not lie about that, unlike so many other "good" Muslims. I am the kind of Muslim woman who maddens reactionary Muslim men and their asinine female followers. What a badge of honour.
> 
> ...


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 19, 2009)

citygirl said:


> They'd love her, she hates the burqa



Well the BNP lot absolutely loathe her just as much as they hate any other nonwhites so maybe there is a slight difference in that case


----------



## citygirl (Sep 19, 2009)

yes, but some of these people aren't *just* BNP though, to be fair... they might even be a slightly more intelligent type of racist... but still racist.. to whatever degree suits their aims


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 20, 2009)

I would contend that someone who is completely happy with all races of people living here but with the condition say that there's a reasonable level of integration and that things like the burqua are banned or even just that it's discouraged are not actually at all racist.  That's a fundamental tautology on the part of the left.  Most other countries are like that anyway.  They can't all be racist.  After all, Britain's the most racist country, according to some people...


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 20, 2009)

citygirl said:


> yes, but some of these people aren't *just* BNP though, to be fair... they might even be a slightly more intelligent type of racist... but still racist.. to whatever degree suits their aims



Sorry, nobody who likes Yasmin Alibhai Brown could possibly be a racist.  That's a scientific impossibility. I 've seen the real racist fascist types, they get into a a real lather about her being 'anti British' etc.


----------



## citygirl (Sep 20, 2009)

I'd say she was quite right-winged herself, reading some of her stuff.  Just ripe for joining the EDL and the holding up of one of those banners.  I don't believe that all women (as she suggests) are wearing the burqa or hijab because of the reasons she states... she doesn't know all of the Muslim women, or their reasons for wearing it, either.  She sounds like she has put herself forward as some kind of "spokeswoman", or champion for Muslim women... It is probably very true to say that the more conservative Muslim countries do take their religion very seriously, and unfortunately treat their women as lower class citizens... but then there's an awful lot of that goes on in the "British" culture aswell, you know... Not *all* Muslim women in this country, or even the stricter Muslim countries, wear the burqa, hijab, or niqab for those reasons, some actually do wear them for their own reasons. I know many women who merely choose to wear it, not feel compelled, they converse in the normal way, take part in normal everyday life with their children, I can see their eyes and have no problems in finding communication with the ones who wear the veil...But reading that, one could imagine that all Islamic women are downtrodden under the radicalism of it all, and have no "voice" of their own... that might very well be the case with some.. but I believe it's far from the amount she makes it out to be... and by doing this, she plays right into their hands... do you not think?


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 20, 2009)

Oh bollocks, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on a forum.

She's the archetypal libby luvvie islington trendy lefty...


----------



## citygirl (Sep 20, 2009)

If you say so.. we obviously read things very differently


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 20, 2009)

By Allah, these EDL fash thickos are the most deluded self aggrandising ccunts I've ever witnessed:



What a bunch of losers.


----------



## DeepStoat (Sep 20, 2009)

Jeff Robinson said:


> By Allah, these EDL fash thickos are the most deluded self aggrandising ccunts I've ever witnessed:
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of losers.




Jesus fucking wept


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 20, 2009)

citygirl said:


> If you say so.. we obviously read things very differently



Seriously, while at times she is a little too right on, generally i admire the fact that she also challenges conservatism in her own background.

i think you're suffering severe cultural relativism if you think that only one kind of bigotry can be challenged.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 20, 2009)

DeepStoat said:


> Jesus fucking wept



Fucking hell. "in the spirit of St George" LOL - Palestinian. What a bunch of tards. That piece of raw ignorance will certainly find a way into a statement I'm writing

"The day of reckoning" proves an intent to provoke.

The muppets will be there in some number from the north of the city, loads of them will probably be Irish descendants. 

We will outnumber them. Big big time. I don't want aggro, but there is no way on Allah / Gods earth we can let these filth be on the streets unopposed.

I hope the likes of the Daily Express are pleased that all their years of stirring hate have finally paid off.


----------



## citygirl (Sep 20, 2009)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Fucking hell. "in the spirit of St George" LOL - Palestinian. What a bunch of tards. That piece of raw ignorance will certainly find a way into a statement I'm writing
> 
> "The day of reckoning" proves an intent to provoke.
> 
> ...



Agreed!

This has the potential to wreck communities every bit as much as the "radicalism" they're so against does.. do they not realise that this is just as "extreme"? - Talk about fighting fire with fire....


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 20, 2009)

"The English Lion" hahahahahahaha. Their basic zoology is somewhat wide of the mark as well.


----------



## DeepStoat (Sep 20, 2009)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> We will outnumber them. Big big time. I don't want aggro, but there is no way on Allah / Gods earth we can let these filth be on the streets unopposed.



Yep, I'm trying to rustle up a few bods to make it oop north.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 20, 2009)

DeepStoat said:


> Yep, I'm trying to rustle up a few bods to make it oop north.



thanks. More the better for sure. Actually the more there are of us the less aggro there will probably be.


----------



## albionism (Sep 21, 2009)

Try telling the fuck heads who
were on the anti-Palestine demo
last week that Saint George's mother
was Palestinian and that George is the 
patron saint of Palestine as well as UK.
Watch 'em squirm in retarded incomprehension.


----------



## JimW (Sep 21, 2009)

albionism said:


> Try telling the fuck heads who
> were on the anti-Palestine demo
> last week that Saint George's mother
> was Palestinian and that George is the
> ...



Doubt it, it's mentioned every time this sort of thing comes up on the message boards of our football club and should imagine there's not many haven't heard it before. 
Being wrong about politics doesn't make you a 'retard' and imagining to yourself that all it will take is a few clever remarks to somehow make them see the error of their ways and go away is pretty puerile.


----------



## albionism (Sep 21, 2009)

Not saying that it would make them
go away, but from experience, it is 
funny to see their stammering, idiotic,
foaming at the mouth reaction to the
"news" that Saint George ain't English.


----------



## citygirl (Sep 21, 2009)

I bet very few of them are, either


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 21, 2009)

JimW said:


> Being wrong about politics doesn't make you a 'retard' and imagining to yourself that all it will take is a few clever remarks to somehow make them see the error of their ways and go away is pretty puerile.




Sorry, it's pretty insulting of me comparing retards to these knuckleheaded twats. Retards is an old fashioned word, but they have genuine needs and deserve compassion. EDL are flat out useless scum. As for how my points are made, they are going to a message boards not the filth in person.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2009)

Chase around after 15 nothings.


----------



## JimW (Sep 21, 2009)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Sorry, it's pretty insulting of me comparing retards to these knuckleheaded twats. Retards is an old fashioned word, but they have genuine needs and deserve compassion. EDL are flat out useless scum. As for how my points are made, they are going to a message boards not the filth in person.



No-one cares about the insults, it's the idea you crack a few zingers and it all just goes away.


----------



## rabs25 (Sep 21, 2009)

Saint George was a fine Saint and a skilled solider who died for his beliefs. I've no doubt he would be an opponent of radical Islam in his homeland.  The march was not Anti-Palestine.  It was against Palestine being used as a tool  by radical Islam. Palestine is no more Hamas than England is New Labour.


----------



## JimW (Sep 21, 2009)

He'd have been a man a fair few hundred years ahead of his time if he did, as I think he was centuries dead before Muhammad was even born, let alone Islam spreading to the Levantine.


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## albionism (Sep 22, 2009)

rabs25 said:


> Saint George was a fine Saint and a skilled solider who died for his beliefs. I've no doubt he would be an opponent of radical Islam in his homeland.  The march was not Anti-Palestine.  It was against Palestine being used as a tool  by radical Islam. Palestine is no more Hamas than England is New Labour.



I think it was more about these EDL boneheads believing that anyone who is Pro-Palestine must be an Islamic fundamentalist.


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## citygirl (Sep 22, 2009)

albionism said:


> I think it was more about these EDL boneheads believing that anyone who is Pro-Palestine must be an Islamic fundamentalist.



or even just anyone anti-EDL....


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## rabs25 (Sep 22, 2009)

> He'd have been a man a fair few hundred years ahead of his time if he did, as I think he was centuries dead before Muhammad was even born, let alone Islam spreading to the Levantine.



 I used  the third conditional. To describe an impossible situation.



> I think it was more about these EDL boneheads believing that anyone who is Pro-Palestine must be an Islamic fundamentalist.



The Palestine issue is exploited by Islamic Fundamentalists. It's a bad situation. It has been since the British were forced out by the Zionist terrorists.


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## frogwoman (Sep 23, 2009)

hmmm.


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## invisibleplanet (Sep 23, 2009)

frogwoman said:


> hmmm.



I see your 'hmmm' and raise it by by a 'O Rly'

My grandfather was in Palestine at the time of the British mandate, and said that both Arab and Jewish armed terror groups were actively making ordinary working peoples' (Jewish, Christian and Muslim) lives a misery.


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## frogwoman (Sep 23, 2009)

Normally I'd say - ok if a bit simplistic, but coupled with his other posts this is a dog whistle if ever i saw one.


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## invisibleplanet (Sep 23, 2009)

frogwoman said:


> Normally I'd say - ok if a bit simplistic, but coupled with his other posts this is a dog whistle if ever i saw one.



I agree. 

I'd like to know what/who informs rabs25's viewpoint.


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## albionism (Sep 23, 2009)

I love how some EDL demonstrators 
are giving it the old Sieg Heil salute
and others are carrying Israeli flags!
What a confused bunch of pillocks.


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## invisibleplanet (Sep 23, 2009)

EDL rhetoric is heavily influenced by the ideology of Catholic Zionist Robert Spencer. Robert Spencer visited England recently and met with extreme fundamentalist nutjobs Christian Action Network (CAN) and extreme right-wing pundits Douglas Murray and Adrian Morgan.

Grasping at straws to find an ideological underpin to their actions, the EDL have chosen militant right-wing fundamentalist 'christianity' imported from America as their 'raison d'etre'.


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## invisibleplanet (Sep 23, 2009)

Stephen Sackur talks to Britain's most fervent neo-conservative, Douglas Murray
Video:http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1299529/muslim_immigration_into_europe_douglas_murray/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/7274865.stm


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## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2009)

Nick Griffin claims the EDL are a "Zionist false flag operation":

http://drop.io/2vyi2gk/asset/simon-darby-putting-down-a-marker-flv


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## butchersapron (Sep 29, 2009)

invisibleplanet said:


> Stephen Sackur talks to Britain's most fervent neo-conservative, Douglas Murray
> Video:http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1299529/muslim_immigration_into_europe_douglas_murray/
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/7274865.stm



Douglas murry who the UAF and HnH networks were bigging up a few months back for his anti-BNP report. Wow they've got fingers in every pie these people.


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## invisibleplanet (Sep 29, 2009)

A new, cross-party, cross-class, cross-religion, single issue anti-ra/anti-fa group would be good. 

UAF, SWP, and Weyman Bennett (in both SWP and UAF) are not equipped to deal with anti-racism and anti-fascism issues. It's too 'students playing at politics' for me.

Listen to this: No Platform in action.


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## durruti02 (Oct 3, 2009)

invisibleplanet said:


> A new, cross-party, cross-class, cross-religion, single issue anti-ra/anti-fa group would be good. .


 classic


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## durruti02 (Oct 3, 2009)

albionism said:


> I think it was more about these EDL boneheads believing that anyone who is Pro-Palestine must be an Islamic fundamentalist.


that march WAS an Islamist fundamentalist match .. the palestine bit is the excuse


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## Corax (Oct 3, 2009)

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4663165.Right_wing_extremists_target_Saints_fans/

I was wondering when they were going to arrive around here.  Unfortunately, I think they'll have no trouble at all in recruiting.


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## john x (Oct 22, 2009)

How stupid are these people?

"The English Defence League is a non-political social movement that stands for the following values:

1. Free speech.
2. Democracy.
3. Equality in law.
4. Cultural tolerance."

Sound great! 

"Also do not carry banners or make arm gestures that could be mistaken as articulating a racist message."

Wonderful!

So they call themselves the English Defence League and the banner on their website is this:







Now I wonder who they are trying to attract to this 'non-racist' and 'culturally tolerant' movement? 

john x


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## Spion (Oct 22, 2009)

durruti02 said:


> an Islamist fundamentalist match


who won?


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## Spion (Oct 22, 2009)

Muslim Brotherhood 1 Al Takfir w'al Hijra 2

The combative visitors clinched it over the league's big name with a last minute suicide goal


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## Spion (Oct 22, 2009)

I'll get my jalabiya


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## Corax (Oct 22, 2009)

john x said:


> How stupid are these people?
> 
> "The English Defence League is a non-political social movement that stands for the following values:
> 
> ...



They're clearly a lib-dem cover organisation.


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## rover07 (Oct 22, 2009)

Spion said:


> Muslim Brotherhood 1 Al Takfir w'al Hijra 2
> 
> The combative visitors clinched it over the league's big name with a last minute suicide goal



So they were down to 10 men by the final whistle


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## Spion (Oct 22, 2009)

rover07 said:


> So they were down to 10 men by the final whistle


Yes. But in the Shia league such an eventuality can be made good by the appearance of the hidden imam


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