# Sustainability Reading List



## what (Sep 12, 2011)

Looking to widen my understanding on sustainability and have been recommended the following as a starting reading list. Has anyone any comments on any of the below and or any other recommendations?



Natural Capitalism Creating the next Industrial Revolution by Lovins, Lovins and Hawken

Getting Green done Hard Truths from the Front Lines of the Sustainability Revolution by Auden Schendler

Green to Gold How Smart companies use environmental strategy to innovate, create value and build competitive advantage by Daniel Esty and Andrew Winston

Cannibals with forks by John Elkington

The Natural Step by David Cook

The Tragedy of the Commons by Garret Hardin

Anything by James Lovelock


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## Falcon (Sep 19, 2011)

Prosperity without growth (Tim Jackson)


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## Bernie Gunther (Sep 19, 2011)

Key advice is this, keep the science separate from the politics/economics in your mind and educate yourself to the point of being able to make your mind up in both areas.

Quite a bit of what's been published in this field, especially the popular stuff, has some poisonous right-wing political views mixed up with the science. Sometimes, you'll get good science in an academic text, say Pimentel: 'Food, Energy and Society' which is pretty definitive and something I'd highly recommend, but the author will then write horrible mathusian crap in their popular articles. Other times, you'll get capitalist apologetics mixed up with politically skewed science, for example most right-wing writing on climate change (Lomberg etc)

The trouble here being, if the authors' politics doesn't include a class analysis and they can't imagine any viable political system but US-dominated capitalism, then killing off all brown people in order to let capitalist accumulation continue can look like the only option.


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## Falcon (Sep 19, 2011)

One mans Malthusian crap is another mans ecological overshoot. Beware analysis that can't imagine an absence of class analysis


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## ferrelhadley (Sep 19, 2011)

what said:


> Anything by James Lovelock


Better of just reading the wiki page on Gaia and not getting too dragged into the Lovelocks world view.A much more up to date view on long term stabilising feedbacks can be found in Richard Alleys lecture
http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/A23A.shtml
"The biggest control knob".

Richard Manning is good, well interesting anyway:
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/02/0079915

James Howard Kunstler has written widely on energy, urban space and sustainability but I do think he is too determinist in his outlook.

Richard Heinberg is another worth a look
http://richardheinberg.com/bookshelf/the-end-of-growth-book

David Pimentel perhaps the most accademic of them all
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Energy-Soci...6675/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316427690&sr=8-1
And is probibly the one 'must read'.

E2A Jarred Diamons "Collapse" is pretty handy.
Tainters Collapse of Complex Societies is another that has a lot of relevance today
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_collapse_of_complex_societies.html?id=YdW5wSPJXIoC

Barletts Exponential Function is another usefull watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY


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## Dr Jon (Sep 19, 2011)

Question Everything

Green Wizards

Transition Voice

Survival Acres


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## what (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks all, fair bit to be getting on with.
Of the list I posted are any worth reading?


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## Dr Jon (Sep 20, 2011)

Also see:

Nature Bats Last

The Bucky-Gandhi Design Institution


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## Bernie Gunther (Sep 21, 2011)

Falcon said:


> One mans Malthusian crap is another mans ecological overshoot. Beware analysis that can't imagine an absence of class analysis



Well, I'd say ecological overshoot is a valid scientific interpretation of the facts, which then raises the question of a political response.

"Malthusian crap" is a particular kind of political response to it, one which refuses to see capital accumulation as part of the problem and instead focusses on 'too many people.'

Garret Hardin above would be a fairly typical example.

edited to add: Incidentally, I was probably being a bit unfair to Pimentel in accusing him of ever peddling Malthusian crap personally, although he does seem to be willing to associate himself with people who do so, e.g. by letting them use his popular articles.


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## Backatcha Bandit (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi all!  Top thread and fine suggestions. 




what said:


> Looking to widen my understanding on sustainability... Of the list I posted are any worth reading?




The selection in the OP seems (at least to to my eye) a little narrow.  How _wide_ did you want to get?

E. F. Schumacher's 1973 classic: 'Small is Beautiful - A Study of Economics As If People Mattered' 

The Land Magazine - unashamedly neo-luddite, well worth the sub.

_..Wider..._

Derrick Jensen - probably 'What We Leave Behind', if I had to pick only one.  Or just watch 'END:CIV' (free).

_..WIDER..._

John Zerzan

Green Anarchy Magazine

_..Now, you might feel a _slight_ twinge..._

The Unabomber's Manifesto

_..Now rinse and spit_.

Also well worth a watch is a lecture given by Toby Hemenway - "How permaculture can save humanity and the Earth, but not civilisation" - the first 5 mins of which he spends unpacking the term 'sustainable' (which should save us a few posts  ), then goes on to do a neat trick with a ball of string.

Maybe follow that up with Richard Manning's views on 'The Green Revolution' - see his book 'Against the Grain' for more.



Bernie Gunther said:


> Garret Hardin above would be a fairly typical example.



Heh... don't get me started...


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## Bernie Gunther (Sep 22, 2011)

Yay! Good to see you BB


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## Backatcha Bandit (Sep 22, 2011)

Likewise, Bernie - good to see you're still keeping the lighthouse of sanity. 

I only popped in to plan the joint 10-year anniversary celebrations with butchersapron. 

-

I just thought of another book I should have plugged - David Fleming's 'Lean Logic - A Dictionary for the Future and How To Survive It' - although I've not had more than a skim of it yet.


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## Bernie Gunther (Sep 22, 2011)

Don't forget Richard Douthwaite


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## what (Sep 23, 2011)

Derrick Jensen - probably 'What We Leave Behind', if I had to pick only one. Or just watch 'END:CIV' (free).

_I don't get it. What he seems to be advocating is a return to a past long gone? Is that correct?_

_By the way he doesn't half have a few books to flog and they are not cheap_


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## Maggot (Sep 23, 2011)

Backatcha Bandit said:


> E. F. Schumacher's 1973 classic: 'Small is Beautiful - A Study of Economics As If People Mattered'


Top book, ahead of it's time.


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## what (Sep 23, 2011)

Backatcha Bandit said:


> I just thought of another book I should have plugged - David Fleming's 'Lean Logic - A Dictionary for the Future and How To Survive It' - although I've not had more than a skim of it yet.



David Fleming looks intresting would appreciate feedback on the book (looks a bit long so I presume it will be a while)


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## ferrelhadley (Sep 23, 2011)

what said:


> David Fleming looks intresting would appreciate feedback on the book (looks a bit long so I presume it will be a while)





> large-scale problems do not require large-scale solutions; they require small-scale solutions within a large-scale framework


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## Dr Jon (Sep 23, 2011)

what said:


> Derrick Jensen - probably 'What We Leave Behind', if I had to pick only one. Or just watch 'END:CIV' (free).


Also see:
The Dark Mountain manifesto


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## free spirit (Sep 24, 2011)

you really need to start with the brundtland report - the 1987 (IIRC) UN report that really defined and kicked the sustainable development movement into the mainstream, and led to the RIO earth summit etc.

I was taught by one of the lead authors, and the people who wrote it really knew their shit.

If you want to know where it started going wrong, check out tears of a crocadile by phil o'keefe and john kirby about the RIO earth summit and the opportunities it missed, then fast forward to the WTO agreement for the neoliberalists response, and where it really went tits up.


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## Riplas (Sep 26, 2011)

* Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change by William R. Catton, Jnr*


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## pseudonarcissus (Sep 26, 2011)

Sustainable Energy David MacKay is interesting from a technology pointy of view, and you can download it saving wasting respourses on a printed copy


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## Riplas (Sep 26, 2011)

what said:


> Derrick Jensen - probably 'What We Leave Behind', if I had to pick only one. Or just watch 'END:CIV' (free).
> 
> _I don't get it. What he seems to be advocating is a return to a past long gone? Is that correct?_
> 
> ...


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## Riplas (Sep 26, 2011)

Groan - I got the formatting wrong 
Apologies what, hope you can extract my reply - 3rd line down, starts with "seems to me......"


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## what (Sep 26, 2011)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Sustainable Energy David MacKay is interesting from a technology pointy of view, and you can download it saving wasting respourses on a printed copy



Agree about the download saving on wasted resources.
As for the book I've commented before on Urban that his analysis of heating and ASHP's in my opinion is wrong which leads me to be concerned about the rest of book.


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## what (Sep 26, 2011)

Riplas said:


> Groan - I got the formatting wrong
> Apologies what, hope you can extract my reply - 3rd line down, starts with "seems to me......"



No probs I got it.
The more I think about Derrick Jensen the less I get it. It does seem a bit luddite.
The David Holmgren stuff looks intresting


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## Backatcha Bandit (Sep 26, 2011)

what said:


> David Fleming looks intresting would appreciate feedback on the book (looks a bit long so I presume it will be a while)



It's more of an Encyclopaedia... What is the socially acceptable period of time to leave between giving someone a book for their birthday and asking to borrow it? 

Holmgrem is good, as is Catton - which reminds me... *Joseph Tainter!*

There's a good lecture Tainter gave last year at the "2010 International Conference on Sustainability: Energy, Economy, and Environment" up on youtube, in which he explores the concept of 'Sustainability'. Well worth a watch. The first part (of 7) can be found here. Pay attention to the last question at the end - Tainter wouldn't touch it, but it basically takes us to where Jensen et al are at.

If you don't have time for the whole end:civ film, this (humorous) 5 min excerpt gives a bit of insight as to where he's coming from:

​

(Hat tip to Franklin Lopez)

In order to 'get' Jensen, I guess you have to take on board what Tainter is saying (on why technology cannot save us) and differentiate between what you might consider 'sustainable' in purely human terms (as in: "What are we aiming to sustain") and what 'sustainability' means in the broader (human and non-human) sense.

It's not a philosophy that is particularly easy to swallow, particularly if one approaches it from a more techno-cornucopian position.  'Luddite' doesn't quite cover it.


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## what (Sep 26, 2011)

Backatcha Bandit said:


> There's a good lecture Tainter gave last year at the "2010 International Conference on Sustainability: Energy, Economy, and Environment" up on youtube, in which he explores the concept of 'Sustainability'. Well worth a watch. The first part (of 7) can be found here. Pay attention to the last question at the end - Tainter wouldn't touch it, but it basically takes us to where Jensen et al are at.
> 
> If you don't have time for the whole end:civ film, this (humorous) 5 min excerpt gives a bit of insight as to where he's coming from:
> 
> ...




Ok so I've watched both the vids.It seems to me that Tainters take seems to be a very US specific take on our problems as well as a complete ignoring of the fact that in Europe simplification and not complexity has been a major contributor to our understanding of how to deal with a low carbon economy (part of the sustainability issue). As such whilst there is some important lessons I would suggest he has a lot more to consider before his works represent what is happening outside the US.

As I now understand it Jensen believes "we are all doomed" and there is nothing we can do?

If that is the case it seems pointless to bother telling me I'm doomed unless of course he is offering some form of salvation or he gets a kick out of it or of course he makes a tidy living from it.

Apologies in advance if my queries and/or comments seem at little crass or naive the political side of sustainability is all new to me (confession I am an engineer by trade, we tend to be a bit shy when it comes to politics, part of the reason I asked the question to start with).

As Bernie said earlier I probably need to do a lot more reading and keep the politics/economics separate from the science until I am more informed.


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## what (Sep 26, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> say Pimentel: 'Food, Energy and Society' which is pretty definitive and something I'd highly recommend,





ferrelhadley said:


> David Pimentel perhaps the most accademic of them all
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Energy-Soci...6675/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316427690&sr=8-1
> And is probibly the one 'must read'.



Ok I've got through this now. Again as per my earlier comments its seems very US centric and a little outdated with regard to the non food related energy stuff in comparison to current European thinking.

Interestingly for me I am not sure I have learnt anything life changing. Does that mean that the whole food energy population conundrum is more mainstream?

I would add, for me, the book could have been more sustainable if it was just the conclusions for each chapter and a very large interlinked spreadsheet for the facts and figures. Would have been easier to digest and would have needed considerably less paper.


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## rich! (Sep 26, 2011)

what said:


> The David Holmgren stuff looks intresting



I have to read Holmgren in tiny doses with a pen in my hand. Shockingly bad proofreading. But  very interesting.


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## Backatcha Bandit (Sep 26, 2011)

I'd have said Tainter is more _Romano_-centric, TBH. 

He's what I would call "a 'systems' thinker", in such company as Fleming and Donella Meadows. As such, the 'tools' he's using to look at the problem aim to be applicable to *any* complex system. As an engineer, you may find that approach more rewarding - with Bernie's sound advice in mind, I'm thinking that it's possibly an easier arena in which to separate the science from the ('politically' motivated) fiction. 

Jensen is saying '_Industrial Civilisation'_ is doomed, but we (or more to the point, the unborn that we borrowed this planet from) are _slightly less_ doomed if we abandon that model ASAP. 'Doom' being inversely proportional to the gusto with which we set about dismantling (or as Tainter would say, '_voluntarily simplifying_') Industrial Civilisation. Think of him as a Salmon with a computer, rather than a messiah. 

He's pretty careful to define 'civilisation' as being a mode of existence predicated upon the importation of resources from beyond one's own land base; hence by definition 'unsustainable' within a finite system.

Anyone care to define the word 'sustainable'?


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## Dr Jon (Sep 28, 2011)

The Tainter lectures are interesting. I'd never really thought about "peak R&D" & "peak innovation" before.
Yet another facet of "peak everything".



Backatcha Bandit said:


> ...
> Anyone care to define the word 'sustainable'?



Nothing is truly sustainable - as in it (nothing) has zero inputs, zero outputs and lasts forever.
Anything else is a bubble.


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## rich! (Sep 28, 2011)

Charles Stross' blog has had some interesting long discussions recently about what the lower sustainable threshold is for maintaining our current level of technology.


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## free spirit (Sep 30, 2011)

Backatcha Bandit said:


> Anyone care to define the word 'sustainable'?


does any fucker using the tony blair definition get evicted from the thread?


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## Riplas (Oct 8, 2011)

what said:


> David Fleming looks intresting would appreciate feedback on the book (looks a bit long so I presume it will be a while)


It's not a book one would necessarily read from start to finish. Its a dictionary, although with its 620 pages (not including the 27 page bibliography listing over 900 books) as Backatcha says, its more an encyclopedia. So I haven't read it all, but I will unashamedly recommend it.

To give you a flavour, from the introduction:

'The Lean thinking described in this book should not be taken as a comprehensive guide to run a railway or make tanks. Rather, it is about how to recruit the intelligence and purpose of the people in the extraordinary task of inventing a future. And here is why we need to do so........Our economy and society depend on a lot of things working right, all the time: cheap and reliable flows of energy, a stable climate, fertile soils, abundant fresh water, productive oceans, an intact, diverse ecology, high levels of employment and a cohesive culture. These are all in trouble....'
So thats the premise, although he does say he presents scenarios rather than forecasts.

Flemming suggests possible responses - namely, Growth, Continuity, Descent and Collapse. Lean Logic is about Descent.

'This (descent) is a steep winding down of the size of the industrial economy. It strips away its burdens and complications, nurses the human ecology back to health, builds local competence and discovers a sense of place.….The descent itself is inevitable, as is the breakage that follows, and yet, this is managed descent, in contrast with descent that forces itself on an economy blindly straining for growth. The shock is as gentle and as survivable as foresight can make it.'

But don't think Flemming is advocating a return to the past. He is inviting us to think about creating something new, exciting and inspiring. Lean logic is a community of essays about inventive, cooperative self reliance. 

Each essay entry is complete in itself, but also joins up with others. One way to approach the book is to use the Guide to Lean Logic. It lists fourteen questions (that Flemming suggests occupies or preoccupies many of us) and the principal entries that address them. The idea, to choose a question and follow up the links from there.

Questions and some of the principle entries for each include:

*Is there a problem?* Nanotechnology, Intensification Paradox, Climacteric, Energy prospects, Economics.
*What solutions does Lean Logic explore?* Lean Economy, Closed systems, Neotechnic, Slack, Modularity, Diversity, New Domestication.
*Are there practical suggestions?* Lean Water, Lean Food, Appropriate technology, the Proximity principle, Land Access, Localisation.
*What guiding principles are there, in addition to lean thinking?* Abstraction, Capital, Holon, Truth, Systems, Harmless Lunatic, Cohesion.

Of course, the risk with extracting selections is that a distorted picture is formed – the book is so much more than the above.
If you didn't already read Thackara's review its a pretty good description


> http://observersroom.designobserver...y-for-the-future-and-how-to-survive-it/29168/



If you are looking to learn more about sustainability, including the political side, the book is, IMHO, a must have and well worth forking out the dosh – although there's the optimistic pointer to the ISBN number so we _could_ request it through the libraries.....


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## Falcon (Oct 10, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> "Malthusian crap" is a particular kind of political response to it, one which refuses to see capital accumulation as part of the problem and instead focusses on 'too many people.'


I'm trying to imagine what an analysis of the overpopulation of the planet relative to its sustainable food supply that avoided focussing on the fact that there are 'too many people' might look like. If you were in a fire, you'd quite like that to be the focus, rather than the failure that led to you being in the fire. Could be a bias for action thing - can you elaborate ?


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## Falcon (Oct 10, 2011)

Riplas said:


> It's not a book one would necessarily read from start to finish. Its a dictionary, although with its 620 pages (not including the 27 page bibliography listing over 900 books) as Backatcha says, its more an encyclopedia. So I haven't read it all, but I will unashamedly recommend it.


Fleming's work on TEQ's is (in my view) a masterpiece - sensible, practical and politically achievable (albeit not with our political cadre). So thanks for the recommendation - purchased.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Oct 11, 2011)

_Outgrowing the Earth_ by Lester Brown.  I'm sure Bernie would classify it as "Malthusian crap", but it does give a good assessment of the issues before us.  It focuses mostly on the dangers of assuming that another technological agricultural revolution will happen in the near future.


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## Riplas (Oct 12, 2011)

Falcon said:


> Fleming's work on TEQ's is (in my view) a masterpiece - sensible, practical and politically achievable (albeit not with our political cadre). So thanks for the recommendation - purchased.



 I’d be interested to hear what you think.

For those who don’t already know, for a free download of Flemmings book explaining TEQ’s -

Energy and the Common Purpose: Descending the Energy Staircase with Tradeable Energy Quotas (TEQ’s) 2007
go here


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## Bernie Gunther (Oct 16, 2011)

Falcon said:


> I'm trying to imagine what an analysis of the overpopulation of the planet relative to its sustainable food supply that avoided focussing on the fact that there are 'too many people' might look like. If you were in a fire, you'd quite like that to be the focus, rather than the failure that led to you being in the fire. Could be a bias for action thing - can you elaborate ?



Well the point I'm making is that, to follow the terms of your metaphor, putting the fire out right now, while necessary, is not sufficient if you live in a city where all the buildings are made of wood and the main activity of the citizens is competing to have ever more spectacular firework displays.

Or to put it more directly, even if extreme measures were taken to reduce population down to viable numbers for 'business as usual', while you still have a form of capitalism that needs growth of some whole number percentage per annum to avoid lethal crises, you've only bought a momentary respite by exterminating all those billions of innocent people.

Incidentally, if you're disposed to argue with this, can I suggest a new thread? This one is best left to stay on topic because it's quite useful.


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## Falcon (Oct 16, 2011)

Bernie - as is so often the case, I'm not disposed to argue with you at all. I'm interested only to determine whether the range of solutions you might consider are limited to those which refuse to recognise that the current population is not sustainable, which is to say - the basket case ones. Thread - as you were.


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## Falcon (Oct 16, 2011)

Riplas said:


> I’d be interested to hear what you think.


Fleming has arrived, and I am as a child in a sweet shop. Fantastic recommendation. Bernie will be amused to hear that I played "fallacy bingo" with the chapter on how to cheat at arguments (intended, of course, to improve the standard of discourse in this area) and, if I didn't get a full house, I did at least win a stuffed donkey.


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## what (Oct 21, 2011)

Ok so I've finished Green to Gold  and Cannibals with forks. Both are mainstream and business friendly.
Green to Gold is intresting for anyone who is looking to get senior company people to invest in energy saving but does not go anywhere near far enough in my opinion. it is basically about spotting potential energy savings in companies, selling it to the executives and a few what worked and what did not work stories.
Cannibals is an interesting read as an alternative to the we are all doomed train of thought.


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## Riplas (Oct 23, 2011)

what said:


> Ok so I've finished Green to Gold and Cannibals with forks. Both are mainstream and business friendly.
> Green to Gold is intresting for anyone who is looking to get senior company people to invest in energy saving but does not go anywhere near far enough in my opinion. it is basically about spotting potential energy savings in companies, selling it to the executives and a few what worked and what did not work stories.
> Cannibals is an interesting read as an alternative to the we are all doomed train of thought.



Business as usual then. To be fair, I haven't read either 

Do I need to?

To quote Eco-advantages website,



> *Green to Gold* is written for executives at every level and for businesses of all kinds and sizes. Esty and Winston guide readers through a complex world of resource shortfalls, regulatory restrictions, and the growing pressure from customers and other stakeholders to strive for sustainability. With a clear focus on execution, this book offers a hard-hitting yet thoughtful and inspiring road map that companies can use to cope with environmental pressures and responsibilities while sparking innovation that will drive long-term growth. Green to Gold is the new template for global CEOs and managers who want to be good stewards of the Earth -- and deliver bottom line results."



Anyone care to define sustainable capitalism?


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## Riplas (Oct 23, 2011)

The thing about Flemmings Lean Logic and The Transition Handbook by Rob Hopkins  (another book _IMO_ needs to be included on this list) is that they are not US centric - neither are they seen as emphasising the doom and gloom. However, they completely agree we are in crisis, and clear that we just cannot continue with business as usual. Their solutions involve shifting the paradigm.



> The Transition Handbook shows how the inevitable and profound changes ahead can have a positive outcome. These changes can lead to the rebirth of local communities, which will grow more of their own food, generate their own power, and build their own houses using local materials. They can also encourage the development of local currencies, to keep money in the local area.



..........if the people get it together..........in time....

What's your bottom line?


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## Dr Jon (Oct 23, 2011)

Riplas said:


> Anyone care to define sustainable capitalism?


It's an oxymoron.

Like sustainable growth / eco-consumerism / "green" motoring, etc., these are decoys used to distract consumer populations from the fact that once oil has gone, it's game over.


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## what (Oct 24, 2011)

Riplas said:


> Business as usual then. To be fair, I haven't read either





Riplas said:


> Do I need to?
> To quote Eco-advantages website,
> Anyone care to define sustainable capitalism?




re Green to Gold. The book is probably aimed at engineers and the like who want to make the projects they work on lower carbon buildings/facilities. Its a little bit of a what do company directors/whoever is paying for the works need to hear if they are going to buy into low carbon buildings . So if you are not in this line might not be of use.

Thinking about cannibals again it very much recognises the peak everything philosophy and tries to see if there is a way of working towards mitigating the effects of what happens when we get there by rethinking how business is done now. For me its a more positive way of approaching the future than other options.


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## what (Oct 24, 2011)

Dr Jon said:


> It's an oxymoron.





Dr Jon said:


> Like sustainable growth / eco-consumerism / "green" motoring, etc., these are decoys used to distract consumer populations from the fact that once oil has gone, it's game over.



Agree once its gone its gone but that does not mean we do not have the ability to either extend the date considerably or actually survive comfortably with out it.

http://www.imeche.org/news/press-re..._to_slash_global_emissions_say_engineers.aspx has an intresting viewpoint from an engineering perspective


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## free spirit (Oct 27, 2011)

Dr Jon said:


> It's an oxymoron.
> 
> Like sustainable growth / eco-consumerism / "green" motoring, etc., these are decoys used to distract consumer populations from the fact that once oil has gone, it's game over.


more like a different game, with different rules, and the more we prepare now for those new rules the better that game will be, or conversely the more we either bury our heads in the sand and do nothing, or sit there with 'the end is nigh' signs up doing nothing, the harsher the new game will be.


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## 8ball (Oct 27, 2011)

_War And Peace_ should keep you going for a bit


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## Yuwipi Woman (Oct 27, 2011)

Dr Jon said:


> It's an oxymoron.
> 
> Like sustainable growth / eco-consumerism / "green" motoring, etc., these are decoys used to distract consumer populations from the fact that once oil has gone, it's game over.



There's always coal.  That's distract the consumer populations from global warming long enough for the ruling class to build themselves bio-domes.


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## what (Feb 22, 2012)

This published by CAT is quite an intresting read. Takes alot of the earlier recommended books works and puts them in a current day UK context.

http://www.zerocarbonbritain.com/


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## Riplas (Jun 19, 2012)

what said:


> This published by CAT is quite an intresting read. Takes alot of the earlier recommended books works and puts them in a current day UK context.
> 
> http://www.zerocarbonbritain.com/


 
this might interest you? - The Ingenious Project - funded by the Royal Academy of Engineering, aiming to bring engineers and citizens together to reach a shared understanding of how to achieve sustainability in the areas to which engineers can contribute.


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## 8115 (Jun 20, 2012)

You could sign up for emails from the New Economics foundation.  They always look interesting and (on the rareish occasions I read them properly) provide a lot of food for though.


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## what (Jun 22, 2012)

Riplas said:


> this might interest you? - The Ingenious Project - funded by the Royal Academy of Engineering, aiming to bring engineers and citizens together to reach a shared understanding of how to achieve sustainability in the areas to which engineers can contribute.


Riplas that looks really intresting thanks


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