# rights of non contract employee sacked without notice



## cuppa tee (Feb 19, 2014)

to summarise a mate of mine has just rung me up asking for advice
he has been employed for five years by the same company
but does not have a contract
he has been a bit naughty and gone out on the razz two nights in a row
first time he failed to get into work at all
second time he was going to be late but his manager texted him saying don't bother to come in, to compound matters his antics have been chronicled for his work mates on Facebook.......
his question" does he have any rights in case of dismissal?


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## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2014)

cesare


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## cesare (Feb 19, 2014)

He's got the right not to be unfairly dismissed. He's also got the right to have a written statement of his terms and conditions of employment. 

Did his manager actually dismiss him by text or was the text less explicit than that? For a dismissal to be procedurally fair, the employer should have followed the principles of fairness set out in the ACAS code of practice: http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1047

If the employer hasn't followed the Code, the dismissal (if it is one) is likely to be unfair and your mate might be awarded basic and compensatory awards (which might also be increased by up to 25% depending on far from the Code the employer acted).

In the first instance your mate should appeal against the dismissal, they should take the steps set out in the Code.


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## cuppa tee (Feb 19, 2014)

thank you, cesare , I haven't been able to get full details yet but I think the text said just don't bother coming in, I was going to advise him to go in as usual tomorrow, today was his day off, and find out if he's actually been sacked, I will pass on the advice you gave when he calls me later


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## cesare (Feb 19, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> thank you, cesare , I haven't been able to get full details yet but I think the text said just don't bother coming in, I was going to advise him to go in as usual tomorrow, today was his day off, and find out if he's actually been sacked, I will pass on the advice you gave when he calls me later


Yes, I think you gave him good advice there - go in as normal rather than assume dismissal. He might end up on a warning, but that's better than dismissal and it's much easier, less costly, and less stressful to try and sort it out internally to start with.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2014)

also there's no point going postal if you're not in work.


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## maomao (Feb 19, 2014)

When my wife got sacked from a job where she worked for 5 years without a contract she ended up getting a 5 figure payout so definitely worth pursuing.


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## cuppa tee (Feb 19, 2014)

cesare said:


> Yes, I think you gave him good advice there - go in as normal rather than assume dismissal. He might end up on a warning, but that's better than dismissal and it's much easier, less costly, and less stressful to try and sort it out internally to start with.


ok  cesare thanks for your time, i have a little more info, a couple of years back he went through a bad spell and signed up with ALcoholics Anonymous, he doesn't go any more because he got a handle on his drinking apart from the odd occasion, however since his work know he had a problem he thinks they may use this against him as the job involves driving, would this cause him problems if he was to have to go to a tribunal


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## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> ok  cesare thanks for your time, i have a little more info, a couple of years back he went through a bad spell and signed up with ALcoholics Anonymous, he doesn't go any more because he got a handle on his drinking apart from the odd occasion, however since his work know he had a problem he thinks they may use this against him as the job involves driving, would this cause him problems if he was to have to go to a tribunal


i'd have thought that it would make them appear shit if they knew he had a problem (which he has dealt with) and let him continue driving. if they were so concerned...


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## cesare (Feb 19, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> ok  cesare thanks for your time, i have a little more info, a couple of years back he went through a bad spell and signed up with ALcoholics Anonymous, he doesn't go any more because he got a handle on his drinking apart from the odd occasion, however since his work know he had a problem he thinks they may use this against him as the job involves driving, would this cause him problems if he was to have to go to a tribunal


Not turning up for work *might* justify a warning. It doesn't justify dismissal unless he's got previous current warnings, and even if he has, they'd have to carry out a dismissal properly for it to be fair and a text isn't a fair dismissal for reasons set out in the Code.


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## equationgirl (Feb 19, 2014)

Also, does the employer have a policy about substance and alcohol abuse and have they followed it? For example, since they knew he had a problem what help did they offer him? 

Advise your friend to obtain copies of his employer's disciplinary and substance abuse policy immediately tomorrow, in case he is removed from work. Get him to write down everything that happened in as neutral and factual a manner as possible, and then check that the policies have been followed to the letter. If there is proof that the company knew he had an alcohol problem, through letters or emails and these are at work, get copies of these documents too.

This will also help determine what he has to do for the appeal.


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## maomao (Feb 19, 2014)

And don't worry about lack of these policies or lack of contracts, that's the company's problem, not your mate's. If he can prove he's worked there for 5 years then he has all the same basic employment rights as any employee with a contract. Many small companies get along without doing half the shit they're supposed to and if they get into an unfair dismissal case any decent lawyer is going to recommend paying off rather than going to court if they haven't been keeping their papers straight. This is all in my experience of course and I work in a fairly 'dodgy' industry where things like this happen quite regularly.


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## cuppa tee (Feb 19, 2014)

thanks to all ....I have spoken with my mate and he is feeling
a lot more upbeat about things and will be going to into work tomorrow in
a positive frame of mind, he said to say he appreciates all of the advice given
here and if he still has a job then he will be trying to negotiate better terms and
conditions because the pressure he has been feeling is one thing making him turn to booze for solace.


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## maomao (Feb 19, 2014)

If he wants to keep his job (and improve pay/conditions, get a contract) then he shouldn't threaten to take the company to a tribunal but he should certainly let the manager know that he knows he hasn't been treated fairly or legally and that really they're the ones that need to get their act together.


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## equationgirl (Feb 19, 2014)

maomao said:


> If he wants to keep his job (and improve pay/conditions, get a contract) then he shouldn't threaten to take the company to a tribunal but he should certainly let the manager know that he knows he hasn't been treated fairly or legally and that really they're the ones that need to get their act together.


I would not say anything about tribunals, not at this stage.

The main thing at the moment is to ensure he hasn't been dismissed, or if so, to start the appeal process.

If successful he should ask for a written statement of his employment conditions. See the link for more information:
https://www.gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions/written-statement-of-employment-particulars


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## DownwardDog (Feb 20, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> thanks to all ....I have spoken with my mate and he is feeling
> a lot more upbeat about things and will be going to into work tomorrow in
> a positive frame of mind, he said to say he appreciates all of the advice given
> here and if he still has a job then he will be trying to negotiate better terms and
> conditions because the pressure he has been feeling is one thing making him turn to booze for solace.



1. Go out on piss
2. Don't turn up for work
3. Ask for raise

Seems like a reasonable strategy.


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## friedaweed (Feb 20, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> to compound matters his antics have been chronicled for his work mates on *Facebook.*......


This is where his problems start and end.


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## cesare (Feb 20, 2014)

friedaweed said:


> This is where his problems start and end.


Yeah, I was hoping there was no "bringing the company into disrepute" potential there ...


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 20, 2014)

cesare said:


> Yeah, I was hoping there was no "bringing the company into disrepute" potential there ...



If he's never been issued a contract, how would he know a disrepute clause from a hole in his arse?


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## cesare (Feb 20, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> If he's never been issued a contract, how would he know a disrepute clause from a hole in his arse?


Cos it might be elsewhere eg in a social media policy


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 20, 2014)

cesare said:


> Cos it might be elsewhere eg in a social media policy



True, but I'm trying to make the point that if he's no written/printed set of T & Cs, if he's just (supposedly  ) been verbally informed about a policy, can he be bound to it?  I'm possibly massively out of date nowadays, but aren't policy changes etc supposed to be: 1) issued in writing as an addendum to your T & Cs, and 2) signed off by each employee, as per with your T & Cs, rather than issued as informal verbal instructions?


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## cesare (Feb 20, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> True, but I'm trying to make the point that if he's no written/printed set of T & Cs, if he's just (supposedly  ) been verbally informed about a policy, can he be bound to it?  I'm possibly massively out of date nowadays, but aren't policy changes etc supposed to be: 1) issued in writing as an addendum to your T & Cs, and 2) signed off by each employee, as per with your T & Cs, rather than issued as informal verbal instructions?


You can have stand-alone policies that aren't contractual. It's not unusual either; many organisations try and avoid contractual policies because of the breach of contract implications if they don't follow their own policies to the letter (which is why you see a paragraph in many employee handbooks saying that the policies and rules contained in the handbook aren't part if the contract of employment, and can be changed at any time giving <amount> of notice, etc). A non-contractual policy can still result in dismissal if it's not complied with. We don't really know what's happened here, but it's possible that the organisation's got some rules/policies that they rely on. Not giving a written statement doesn't bode well for clearly defined policies though, I agree.


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## equationgirl (Feb 20, 2014)

cesare said:


> Cos it might be elsewhere eg in a social media policy


If they have one - I know I've stopped writing anything about work on my FB page because my work brought out such a policy and I was having a horrendous time of it with a bullying boss.


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