# Anti Fascist Image



## Red About Town (Dec 23, 2012)

Can someone please explain the background to this image that is used by most anti-fascist groups across Europe? What do the flags represent etc.?

Also, I see AFA in the UK never used it. Is there any specific reason as to why?


----------



## Firky (Dec 23, 2012)

http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/append2.html#redblack



> However, the red-and-black flag was used by anarchists long before 1931, indeed decades before the CNT was even formed. In fact, it, rather than the black flag, may well have been the first specifically anarchist flag.
> 
> The earliest recorded use of the red-and-black colours was during the attempted Bologna insurrection of August 1874 where participants were "sporting the anarchists' red and black cockade." [Nunzio Pernicone, Italian Anarchism, 1864-1892, p. 93] In April 1877, a similar attempt at provoking rebellion saw anarchists enter the small Italian town of Letino "wearing red and black cockades" and carrying a "red and black banner." These actions helped to "captur[e] national attention" and "draw considerable notice to the International and its socialist programme." [Nunzio Pernicone, Op. Cit., pp. 124-5 and pp. 126-7] Significantly, another historian notes that the insurgents in 1874 were "decked out in the red and black emblem of the International" while three years later they were "prominently displaying the red and black anarchist flag." [T. R. Ravindranathan, Bakunin and the Italians, p. 208 and p. 228] Thus the black-and-red flag, like the black flag, was a recognised symbol of the labour movement (in this case, the Italian section of the First International) before becoming linked to anarchism.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 23, 2012)

That's a different flag.

The one in the OP is an update of the historic flag of the german Anti-fascist Action first released in 1932 and then updated/rediscovered in the 70s by the German k-groups - then the version seen above in the mid 80s  - and the version in common use was by the group KuK (Kunst und Kampf - Art and Struggle). The two flags originally meant SPD and KPD unity. The one above means communist and anarchist unity within an autonomist circle.


----------



## audiotech (Dec 23, 2012)




----------



## butchersapron (Dec 23, 2012)

Note the flags turned around and at a lower angle in the newer version, suggesting aggressive movement by the left towards the right. The original direction signified a wind blowing from the left.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 23, 2012)

Didn't even cross my mind that how the flag was positioned had a meaning.


----------



## Cornetto (Dec 30, 2012)

BA is the Melvynn Bragg of the left, culture vulture.


----------



## cesare (Dec 30, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Didn't even cross my mind that how the flag was positioned had a meaning.


Me neither! Interesting innit.


----------



## Frank Merton (Dec 30, 2012)

I do wish organizations would give off using flags and symbols and songs and so on.  It seems all too, well, how can I say it -- it seems all too Fascist.


----------



## cesare (Dec 30, 2012)

Frank Merton said:


> I do wish organizations would give off using flags and symbols and songs and so on.  It seems all too, well, how can I say it -- it seems all too Fascist.


Do you feel that way about national flags too?


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 30, 2012)

Anti-Fascist Action's (UK) logo is the upside red triangle. It was used by the 62 Group too I think. 

It's the symbol given to socialist/communist/anarchist (?) prisoners in Nazi concentration camps.  

When I interviewed former AFA members I asked some about the logo and most said they didn't know why the red triangle was used and didn't really care, which I liked


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 30, 2012)

Frank Merton said:


> I do wish organizations would give off using flags and symbols and songs and so on. It seems all too, well, how can I say it -- it seems all too Fascist.


----------



## Frank Merton (Dec 30, 2012)

cesare said:


> Do you feel that way about national flags too?


I never thought about that, but, yea.  These are all mind control techniques, pushing various ideologies, nationalism among them.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 30, 2012)

Ahhhhh, good old mind control.


----------



## Frank Merton (Dec 30, 2012)

I get an uneasiness, a certain suspicion, that all is not as rational as it might be, and that there are emotional appeals being used, when I see parades and music and uniforms and flags and ceremonies and rituals and processions and special salutes and all that sort of thing.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 30, 2012)

You poor thing.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 30, 2012)

Frank Merton said:


> I get an uneasiness, a certain suspicion, that all is not as rational as it might be, and that there are emotional appeals being used, when I see parades and music and uniforms and flags and ceremonies and rituals and processions and special salutes and all that sort of thing.



You missed symbols from that list.


----------



## cesare (Dec 30, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> You missed symbols from that list.


S/he did mention those earlier, tbf


----------



## Frank Merton (Dec 30, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> You poor thing.


Oh I love music and parades and processions and rituals and so on, but only for their own sake.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 30, 2012)

Life must be tough for you.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 30, 2012)

Could an owl not be incorporated into the anti-fascist logo to give them something to get excited about?


----------



## cesare (Dec 30, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Could an owl not be incorporated into the anti-fascist logo to give them something to get excited about?


What's the significance of an owl (besides the conspiracy theorist stuff)?


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 30, 2012)

cesare said:


> What's the significance of an owl (besides the conspiracy theorist stuff)?



Just conspiracy theory stuff.


----------



## cesare (Dec 30, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Just conspiracy theory stuff.



An owl peeping from behind the triangle. Or maybe owl ears on the triangle.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 30, 2012)

cesare said:


> An owl peeping from behind the triangle. Or maybe owl ears on the triangle.



Or the triangle could be its beak.


----------



## Frank Merton (Dec 30, 2012)

Too bad: I was hoping it had something to do with protecting the environment.


----------



## cesare (Dec 30, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Or the triangle could be its beak.


Good call.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 30, 2012)

the owl is a symbol of wisdom - hegel's owl of minerva etc -and its large eyes indicate seeing the bigger picture/foresight etc. latin name for some owls is 'glaucus' hence glaucoma. i prefer snails meself.


----------



## cesare (Dec 30, 2012)

Other owl stuff http://www.owlpages.com/articles.php?section=owl+mythology&title=myth+and+culture


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 30, 2012)

unlikely owl thread evolves!


----------



## cesare (Dec 30, 2012)

We're only missing @revol68


----------



## Firky (Jan 1, 2013)

cesare said:


> We're only missing @revol68


 
Last seen on Facebook homing stray cats IIRC.


----------



## barney_pig (Jan 15, 2013)

On Wednesday 23rd January, bbc radio four is broadcasting a play "every duchess in England" based on matthew worleys book on Mosley and the new party.


----------



## framed (Jan 15, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> On Wednesday 23rd January, bbc radio four is broadcasting a play "every duchess in England" based on matthew worleys book on Mosley and the new party.


 
Morning, afternoon or evening?


----------



## barney_pig (Jan 16, 2013)

2.15pm- 3pm but it will be on iplayer


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 12, 2013)




----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 12, 2013)

i dont know what that mean. can someone explain or write it in 'punk'?


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 12, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i dont know what that mean. can someone explain or write it in 'punk'?


 
It's the Xzibit meme


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 12, 2013)

still struggling here!


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 12, 2013)

Here


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 13, 2013)

... gives up.


----------

