# Post your tax return angst here



## editor (Jan 22, 2012)

It's that time of the year, so I've been busy around the house, I've organised my photos, cleaned the kitchen, tidied my room, written some interesting articles about obscure topics, and finally rearranged my sock and undie drawer.

Yep: it's "_do anything but the fucking tax return_" week.

Anyone else suffering?

(*smug gits who filed their tax return months ago need not apply)


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## equationgirl (Jan 23, 2012)

editor said:


> It's that time of the year, so I've been busy around the house, I've organised my photos, cleaned the kitchen, tidied my room, written some interesting articles about obscure topics, and finally rearranged my sock and undie drawer.
> 
> Yep: it's "_do anything but the fucking tax return_" week.
> 
> ...


I knew you hadn't done it when you were playing with the logo yesterday 

I did mine yesterday afternoon. It didn't take long, maybe an hour all told.
But I procrastinatined for months before doing it - I filed it earlier when I was seriously ill, so I have no excuses.

The new daily penalties were an excellent motivator for me.


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## 19sixtysix (Jan 23, 2012)

Us poor sods that PAYE don't get a year to pay.
So get it filled in you tax dodging bastards


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 23, 2012)

19sixtysix said:


> Us poor sods that PAYE don't get a year to pay.
> So get it filled in you tax dodging bastards


Yeah, except we also have to pay in advance too. They did think of that one.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 23, 2012)

I not only have my tax to do but also an important deadline for work, so I'm in double procrastination mode. I even cleaned the cooker yesterday, and I'm taking an inordinate interest in developing and scanning film, and creating database records to store all the details of each roll, which tie into the scans in iPhoto. It's all very sophisticated.

eBay is also doing very well out of me.


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## mr steev (Jan 23, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, except we also have to pay in advance too. They did think of that one.



That was my first thought, but it's not actually true is it? For tax owed from the previous April, the first payment on account in in January, then the second in June (which is after the ending April)... and, thankfully, you don't _have_ to pay it (until the next year when it's due anyway)


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## girasol (Jan 23, 2012)

I submited mine in July I think   Now I've got the hang of it I just do little bits at a time starting from April.

Paid up at the start of January...


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## mr steev (Jan 23, 2012)

I did mine earlier, but not until after I'd done some laundry and swept the floor.

Unfortunately, due to my shit estimations, what should have left me feeling good once I'd finally filed it and crossed it off the list, has left me feeling slightly anxious and a little bit depressed


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## free spirit (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm er yeah erm well I've looked at the accounts earlier before getting confused by the accountant followed by more procrastination urgent work.

Fairly sure I'm not going to owe anything from that year being as we was just starting up and basically living on sod all, but the contracts signed in March but not actually paid or completed until after might be the spanner in the works on that.


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## editor (Jan 23, 2012)

I've been out for lunch, wrote a piece on the Brighton Sea Railway, went for a coffee and rehearsed with my new band, and now I'm thinking of sorting out my MP3s.

Yep. Anything but the tax return.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 23, 2012)

First one ever now in. Awaits IR getting in touch to tell me I've fucked up.


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## ChrisD (Jan 23, 2012)

I normally get a reminder from my accountant in about August...  didn't get any reminder this year.  So spent all weekend before last sorting things out and emailed it over hoping that he had't died...  Sorted yesterday (ONE WHOLE WEEK SPARE !!)             now the tenth year I'm making a mental note to sort it all out in May....


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## Gavin Bl (Jan 23, 2012)

Its a doddle...easy....(the accountant does it)


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## equationgirl (Jan 23, 2012)

editor said:


> I've been out for lunch, wrote a piece on the Brighton Sea Railway, went for a coffee and rehearsed with my new band, and now I'm thinking of sorting out my MP3s.
> 
> Yep. Anything but the tax return.


*BIG FAT DAILY PENALTIES FOR LATENESS!!!!!! *
*DO YOUR TAX RETURN!!!!!!!!!*


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## equationgirl (Jan 23, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> First one ever now in. Awaits IR getting in touch to tell me I've fucked up.


I'm sure you won't have.


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## 19sixtysix (Jan 23, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> I'm sure you won't have.



I did once when I had to do tax returns cause I was non-resident. I omitted to fill in one box which meant I received a large and very unexpected bill by post on a saturday morning when they are shut and you can't do noubt about except worry.


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## mr steev (Jan 23, 2012)

One of the good things of doing it online is that it flags up if you leave something out and does some of the maths for you


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## equationgirl (Jan 24, 2012)

mr steev said:


> One of the good things of doing it online is that it flags up if you leave something out and does some of the maths for you


Except when it gets the tax code wrong and won't let you amend it to the code HMRC sent you. But apart from that...


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## free spirit (Jan 24, 2012)

aargh.

that is all.


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## mr steev (Jan 24, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Except when it gets the tax code wrong and won't let you amend it to the code HMRC sent you. But apart from that...



I think there are a few other little glitches. It cost a mate of mine over £8 in talktime the other day to get through to the technical support because it wouldn't except his form... it turned out he'd entered '0' into one of the fields where he should've just left it blank


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## ddraig (Jan 25, 2012)

one of the perks of being just general wage slave and not having to do it! yay
i DO feel your pain however as partner has been grrring, tearing hair out and getting very very pissed off with it

hope tis ok to ask/clarify some stuff on their behalf
does it have to be paid by tuesday? the 31 jan? 
if they have earned about £680 or near that on a tv job on top of their wage of about £19k could it really mean that they have to pay £500+ ???  maybe it has put them into the next tax band
and can they offset expenses from property against other income?
cheers


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## colacubes (Jan 25, 2012)

ddraig said:


> one of the perks of being just general wage slave and not having to do it! yay
> i DO feel your pain however as partner has been grrring, tearing hair out and getting very very pissed off with it
> 
> hope tis ok to ask/clarify some stuff on their behalf
> ...



Re the pay date, yes unless you call and negotiate late payment.  Good luck with that as the phone lines will be rather busy at the mo!

The tax sounds wrong (should be 20% until you earn over £35k total as far as I know), so should be more in the region of £120.  Even if it went in the next tax band up it would still be 40% so way less than you're estimating. But you'd be better off checking with an expert on that one.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 25, 2012)

ddraig said:


> if they have earned about £680 or near that on a tv job on top of their wage of about £19k could it really mean that they have to pay £500+ ???  maybe it has put them into the next tax band
> 
> cheers



 You only get taxed in the next tax band for the amount that has gone over into the next tax band.
I


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 25, 2012)

Gavin Bl said:


> Its a doddle...easy....(the accountant does it)



I'm seriously beginning to wonder what use personal accountants actually are now that there is the on-line thingy for everyone.
You still have to gather all your taxes and expenses together for your accountant. When you gather them together, why not type them into your computer instead of paying someone £500 to type them in for you.

If you are not claiming expenses against the tax then there is zero for them to do apart from one adding sum. If you do need to claim expenses I can't imagine it's worth £500 not to just look up what you can claim and then do your second and final adding up sum of the tax return (the form will do all the other slightly more difficult takeaway and percentage sums for you).


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## ddraig (Jan 25, 2012)

thanks both


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## Gavin Bl (Jan 25, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm seriously beginning to wonder what use personal accountants actually are now that there is the on-line thingy for everyone.
> You still have to gather all your taxes and expenses together for your accountant. When you gather them together, why not type them into your computer instead of paying someone £500 to type them in for you.
> 
> If you are not claiming expenses against the tax then there is zero for them to do apart from one adding sum. If you do need to claim expenses I can't imagine it's worth £500 not to just look up what you can claim and then do your second and final adding up sum of the tax return (the form will do all the other slightly more difficult takeaway and percentage sums for you).



If that was the only thing I relied on the accountant for to run my Limited Company then I would totally agree - but it is a small perk on top of a range of other services and security they provide me.


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## bi0boy (Jan 25, 2012)

I did my return in December, I then got a letter confirming what I had to pay, and I paid it.

Today I got a letter threatening me with a fine if I don't submit a return by the end of the month.


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## editor (Jan 25, 2012)

Drawer tidied.
Recycling bag fixed.
Tax return 5% done.


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## colacubes (Jan 25, 2012)

editor said:


> Drawer tidied.
> Recycling bag fixed.
> Tax return 5% done.



Get it done   You know what'll happen otherwise - massive night Friday, epic hangover Saturday and Sunday, blind panic Monday onwards


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 25, 2012)

I did _start_ the tax return. In that I logged into the site and clicked "Begin" and then saved it and closed the window.


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## editor (Jan 25, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Get it done  You know what'll happen otherwise - massive night Friday, epic hangover Saturday and Sunday, blind panic Monday onwards


Same as usual then


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## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2012)

ddraig said:


> one of the perks of being just general wage slave and not having to do it! yay
> i DO feel your pain however as partner has been grrring, tearing hair out and getting very very pissed off with it
> 
> hope tis ok to ask/clarify some stuff on their behalf
> ...



For the property question, yes if it's income from a holiday let, no if not. But if there is a loss rather than a profit, you shouldn't need to pay any tax. Don't forget to take mortgage interest, insurance, advertising fees, agents fees, maintenance etc into account. A simple income/expenditure spreadsheet is really helpful in calculating loss.


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## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2012)

complete those tax returns, fridgemagnet & editor.

Big fines = less beer money.


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## ddraig (Jan 26, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> For the property question, yes if it's income from a holiday let, no if not. But if there is a loss rather than a profit, you shouldn't need to pay any tax. Don't forget to take mortgage interest, insurance, advertising fees, agents fees, maintenance etc into account. A simple income/expenditure spreadsheet is really helpful in calculating loss.


thanks


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 26, 2012)

Doing mine today...


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## grit (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm working myself up to it, but I havent procrastinated this much in a while, and thats saying something.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 26, 2012)

grit said:


> I'm working myself up to it, but I havent procrastinated this much in a while, and thats saying something.



I managed to go up 15 levels on bf3 and reorder my mp3 collection as by product of putting mine off. 

It didn't turn out to be that bad in the end.


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## weltweit (Jan 26, 2012)

In a panic here, can't locate all the necessary paperwork!

Am going through my piles!!


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## editor (Jan 26, 2012)

It's amazing hoe many urgent tasks are now presenting themselves and preventing me from doing my tax return.

*goes off to hoover room


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## grit (Jan 26, 2012)

fuck it, I'm doing it *gulp*


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2012)

I did mine over a week ago.  Take that, you procrastinating bastards!


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## grit (Jan 26, 2012)

I dont understand many of the quesitons 

How much is it to pay someone to do a very small return?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 26, 2012)

grit said:


> I dont understand many of the quesitons
> 
> How much is it to pay someone to do a very small return?



Can I start the bidding at a Q?


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2012)

grit said:


> I dont understand many of the quesitons
> 
> How much is it to pay someone to do a very small return?


Maybe we can help?  Maybe sas can help in particular, since it seems to be his bloody job.  Which questions are you having a particular problem with.


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## grit (Jan 26, 2012)

nvm


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## grit (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm more than happy to just pay an accountant to sort this once and for all, if anyone has any recommendations.


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## weltweit (Jan 26, 2012)

Does anyone know where they keep their downloadable forms? I am told I can download a form from the Revenue website but I can't find out where. I need a PAYE form for 2011 in case anyone knows.


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## Leafster (Jan 26, 2012)

Try this: http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/forms/home.page


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## grit (Jan 26, 2012)

We are getting an extension 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...MRC-extends-self-assessment-tax-deadline.html


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 26, 2012)

Done


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## _angel_ (Jan 26, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> First one ever now in. Awaits IR getting in touch to tell me I've fucked up.


Same here. I didn't understand half the questions, but it didn't mind me leaving them blank. I hope.


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## weltweit (Jan 26, 2012)

Leafster said:


> Try this: http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/forms/home.page



Thanks leafster, I will have a nose around.

Actually its detail on Self Employment they seem to be after mainly which is simple for me because in the tax year I didn't do any. I may include details of my PAYE on a seperate A4 sheet, they are in any case already aware of it as they have been getting my PAYE as it goes!


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## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2012)

kabbes said:


> Maybe we can help? Maybe sas can help in particular, since it seems to be his bloody job. Which questions are you having a particular problem with.


No, he has a different job now within HMRC now. See the thread in general.


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## porp (Jan 26, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> For the property question, yes if it's income from a holiday let, no if not. But if there is a loss rather than a profit, you shouldn't need to pay any tax. Don't forget to take mortgage interest, insurance, advertising fees, agents fees, maintenance etc into account. A simple income/expenditure spreadsheet is really helpful in calculating loss.



Agree about the simple spreadsheet - no need for an accountant for this kind of stuff.

However, loss relief for furnished holiday lets has changed from tax year 2011-12 onwards, ie for the next set of tax returns. FHL losses can longer be set off against general income, with the qualifying conditions also becoming stricter for FHLs.

Right, back to cleaning out the keyboard...


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## porp (Jan 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Thanks leafster, I will have a nose around.
> 
> Actually its detail on Self Employment they seem to be after mainly which is simple for me because in the tax year I didn't do any. I may include details of my PAYE on a seperate A4 sheet, they are in any case already aware of it as they have been getting my PAYE as it goes!



Is it this one you are after?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/sa102.pdf


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> I knew you hadn't done it when you were playing with the logo yesterday
> 
> I did mine yesterday afternoon. It didn't take long, maybe an hour all told.
> But I procrastinatined for months before doing it - I filed it earlier when I was seriously ill, so I have no excuses.
> ...



Haha I did wonder why the logo seemed to change every couple hours.


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## weltweit (Jan 27, 2012)

porp said:


> Is it this one you are after?
> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/sa102.pdf



Might well be, thanks porp.


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## porp (Jan 27, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Might well be, thanks porp.


You're welcome -  hope it's the right one. If you tell us a bit more, I could try and find you the right form.

The thing abut PAYE income is that, even though HMRC know about it, if you fill in a tax return, you have to provide the PAYE income details as well. This is because the PAYE page records things that have already been taxed at source (salary) and things that need to be taxed on the individual (car benefit, employer loans etc). So even though it seems a bit of a faff, best thing is to fill it and send it.


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## Quartz (Jan 27, 2012)

Hmm... I forgot to attach scans of two documents to my return. How can I amend it?


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## AnnaKarpik (Jan 29, 2012)

Jesus wept.

Have filled in a return showing a self-employed loss and they calculate I owe class 4 nics of 147 quid.


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## Red Cat (Jan 29, 2012)

Help!

I've only just looked at this cos I thought it would be easy as I just did a bit of childminding/babysitting last year when I couldn't do mental health work anymore as I was pregnant and I registered as self-employed towards the end of 2010. I don't owe any tax.

Anyway, I also had 2 employers that year as prior to stopping hospital work I did temp shifts, so I'm filling in the employment section and it won't allow me to put 0 in tips and other payments not on your p60. I don't understand.

​


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 29, 2012)

Did mine (and paid) on Friday.


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## Red Cat (Jan 29, 2012)

Red Cat said:


> Help!
> 
> I've only just looked at this cos I thought it would be easy as I just did a bit of childminding/babysitting last year when I couldn't do mental health work anymore as I was pregnant and I registered as self-employed towards the end of 2010. I don't owe any tax.
> 
> Anyway, I also had 2 employers that year as prior to stopping hospital work I did temp shifts, so I'm filling in the employment section and it won't allow me to put 0 in tips and other payments not on your p60. I don't understand.



Ignore! It said put blank if 0. I didn't see that even though it said it clearly in bright red type


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## equationgirl (Jan 29, 2012)

Red Cat said:


> Help!
> 
> I've only just looked at this cos I thought it would be easy as I just did a bit of childminding/babysitting last year when I couldn't do mental health work anymore as I was pregnant and I registered as self-employed towards the end of 2010. I don't owe any tax.
> 
> Anyway, I also had 2 employers that year as prior to stopping hospital work I did temp shifts, so I'm filling in the employment section and it won't allow me to put 0 in tips and other payments not on your p60. I don't understand.


leave it blank for 0.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jan 30, 2012)

AnnaKarpik said:


> Jesus wept.
> 
> Have filled in a return showing a self-employed loss and they calculate I owe class 4 nics of 147 quid.


That's your national insurance contributions, not tax and you have to pay them whether you make a profit or not.


Red Cat said:


> Help!
> 
> I've only just looked at this cos I thought it would be easy as I just did a bit of childminding/babysitting last year when I couldn't do mental health work anymore as I was pregnant and I registered as self-employed towards the end of 2010. I don't owe any tax.
> 
> Anyway, I also had 2 employers that year as prior to stopping hospital work I did temp shifts, so I'm filling in the employment section and it won't allow me to put 0 in tips and other payments not on your p60. I don't understand.


Are you still doing some work as self employed?
If not: have you deregistered with HMRC?
Because if you haven't you'll still be liable  for the NICs for the period.

This thread is as far as I've got so far with my return :'(


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## AnnaKarpik (Jan 30, 2012)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> That's your national insurance contributions, not tax and you have to pay them whether you make a profit or not. (


Class 4 nics are calculated on profit. Class 2 nics don't have to be paid under the lower earnings limit. My mini venture qualifies on both counts.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 30, 2012)

Well I did actually send mine off, only to discover that I didn't take the _first_ payment on account from last year into, er, account, only the second, so I paid way more than I had to  Great. Can I get the money back until I have to give it to them again for my second payment on account later on this year? Doubt it.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jan 31, 2012)

AnnaKarpik said:


> Class 4 nics are calculated on profit. Class 2 nics don't have to be paid under the lower earnings limit. My mini venture qualifies on both counts.


OK, my  mistake, or rather theirs as far as you're concerned.
final day...


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## grit (Jan 31, 2012)

Found a good accountant to take care of all of this bollocks


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## Looby (Jan 31, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well I did actually send mine off, only to discover that I didn't take the _first_ payment on account from last year into, er, account, only the second, so I paid way more than I had to  Great. Can I get the money back until I have to give it to them again for my second payment on account later on this year? Doubt it.



Yes, you can.


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## pinkychukkles (Jan 31, 2012)

Haven't started mine yet and if you needed more excuses to procrastinate, well...


> Thousands of tax office workers will stage a 24-hour strike on Tuesday in a row over privatisation, leading to a delay in the deadline for filing tax returns. Members of the Public and Commercial Services union (PCS) across the UK will mount picket lines in protest at plans to trial the use of private firms at two centres. HM Revenue and Customs has decided not to issue penalty fines to anyone missing Tuesday's deadline for self-assessment returns. *Anyone filing their returns on 1 or 2 February will also not be fined.*



http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/31/hmrc-delays-tax-return-deadline-strike


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 31, 2012)

sparklefish said:


> Yes, you can.


I did try calling them up earlier but that's not going to work today, with both a strike and also loads of people panicking. I'll leave it for a bit.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jan 31, 2012)

studiously doing anything but this.


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## editor (Jan 31, 2012)

Sent. Fuck you The Man!


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 31, 2012)

editor said:


> Sent. Fuck you The Man!



Paying your tax on time. That will show them!


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## free spirit (Feb 2, 2012)

am I the latest urbanite to return it before the extended deadline?

also, it was a nice not to owe any tax after working it all out, but also a bit depressing to see in black and white how little I actually made that year as I was slogging my guts out most of the year.


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## Puddy_Tat (May 2, 2012)

I have started trying to assemble my online tax return for 2011/12 (this will be my first tax return).

Not because I'm "a smug git" but since I was working PAYE until October, and have earned next to sod all on freelance work since then, the chances are they will owe me money...

    kinda sums up progress to date.

Any ideas on the following :

a) why the heck are they asking about my 'gift aid' donations?  I'm sure I've signed a few gift aid forms over the course of the year, but I'm buggered if I can remember who they all were for and how much I donated.  Isn't it up to the charity to reclaim the tax anyway?

b) I had a bit of interest from an ISA, which I believe to be tax free.  Do I declare this somewhere and say it's an ISA, or do I ignore it completely?

c) Should a few quid in co-op dividend be declared?

d) will I have to back all this up with paper copies to prove any of it?  Or scanned copy documents?  I was expecting it to ask me for these so far, and all I've done is enter numbers in boxes - for all they know I could have made them all up.  Or does this come later?


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## Gavin Bl (May 2, 2012)

In my limited experience they normally take the figures you give them at face value. I would include interest paid, I tend to make a 'generous' estimate, its usually not much anyway and then you can't be hassled over a mistake for a few quid.

I'd include the dividend, if its just a few quid, it'll have little effect.

ISA doesn't come into it - not taxable as long as rules are observed.

Gift aid where you have always allowed the charity to claim the monies in your name, I don't think they are included.

yes, if you were PAYE for a long while, and not made much since then - you would normally get something. TBF, that has always been paid fairly promptly IME.


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## Puddy_Tat (May 2, 2012)

Thanks.

I have found reference to ISAs in a bit of guidance that I didn't find at the time - you're right, I don't mention them.

The Gift Aid thing would apparently be relevant if I went in to the higher rate tax band.  Ha Ha Ha.

I suppose I ought to mention the few quid from the Co-op (although they might ask why I've not declared the bugger before, although if everyone who had Co-op membership started faffing about with tax returns for the sake of a few quid, the system would probably disintegrate.)

On pressing the button, it reckons they owe me £ 91.  I was expecting rather more than that, especially as there's a professional (ha ha) body subscription of £ 160 that I had to pay out this year. 

This leads me to think I've dropped a bollock somewhere.

I think I'll save the whole bloody thing and come back to it tomorrow.

Or the next day.

Aaargh.


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## shakespearegirl (May 3, 2012)

My spare room is currently a sea of receipts. Luckily LIDL have a plant sale on today so I have something to distract me from finishing my tax return from 11/12 and getting my company records into shape


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## Gavin Bl (May 3, 2012)

Depending on how frequently you incur expenses, I would just staple them to a piece of A4, by month, or week or whatever....and annotate them. I got totally lost with expenses when I started out self-employed. Just staple them to a piece of paper as you incur them. I try to do this when I come in, and its a 2-minute job when you are standing there thinking 'Right, Home at last'


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## 8115 (Jul 16, 2012)

Tax return question.  On top of my PAYE job I have some other money coming in which I invoice for or get a payment for, which I don't think tax is deducted from.  So, I think I need to do a tax return at the end of the year?  I've heard that you need to get a special number from the tax office before you do this?   Is this, registering your business for tax?

I just want to do it properly, even though the amounts involved are quite small.  I'm just not sure if I need to formally register for tax, or if I can just fill out a tax return at the end of next year.

Thanks.


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## 5t3IIa (Jul 16, 2012)

8115 said:


> Tax return question. On top of my PAYE job I have some other money coming in which I invoice for or get a payment for, which I don't think tax is deducted from. So, I think I need to do a tax return at the end of the year? I've heard that you need to get a special number from the tax office before you do this? Is this, registering your business for tax?
> 
> I just want to do it properly, even though the amounts involved are quite small. I'm just not sure if I need to formally register for tax, or if I can just fill out a tax return at the end of next year.
> 
> Thanks.


 
This is the easy bit, mate  http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/businesses/iwtregister-a-new-business.shtml 

The return is traumatic thing


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## 8115 (Jul 16, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> This is the easy bit, mate  http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/businesses/iwtregister-a-new-business.shtml
> 
> The return is traumatic thing


 
Thanks 

I was counting on the return not being too bad, as I don't have any expenses or anything.  Maybe my assumption that the form would be simplicity itself was a mistake.  I'm just* keeping a record of when I get paid and then it'll all be fine.  Actually, I think I hardly need to do anything up to April, so next year can be a dummy run, if you like.

*going to start


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## _angel_ (Jul 16, 2012)

how the hell does anyone with an online shop account for the stock price of every single item they bought. I have got receipts and more likely electronic information (paypal records) but itemising each single CD.
Help please..
I'm about 500 down for the year!


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## 5t3IIa (Jul 16, 2012)

8115 said:


> Thanks
> 
> I was counting on the return not being too bad, as I don't have any expenses or anything. Maybe my assumption that the form would be simplicity itself was a mistake. I'm just* keeping a record of when I get paid and then it'll all be fine. Actually, I think I hardly need to do anything up to April, so next year can be a dummy run, if you like.
> 
> *going to start


 
Do you work at home in your second job? If so you can claim for a percentage of bills and equipment. And other things. This is where it can get complicated... 

Do start! If you're invoicing you should keep them filed neatly!


----------



## silverfish (Jul 16, 2012)

Just finishing the last 3-4 years. I may or may not get non residential status...which means on the down side I'll have 4 years tax to spunk up, upside is I'll be able to get a UK mortgage if I'm really fecking lucky and want to take in up the arse on deposit, fees and interest with a handful of sand in my lube......


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 16, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I think I'll save the whole bloody thing and come back to it tomorrow.
> 
> Or the next day.
> 
> Aaargh.


 
Oh balls.

I still haven't done this.

And since they will owe me money, I really ought to get on with it. 

The sticking point seemed to be my redundancy payment last autumn, which ought to be tax free as it was below £ 35K (a bloody long way below 35K) but the system is treating it as part of my income.

I really must try again.

Further Aaaaargh.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 16, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Oh balls.
> 
> I still haven't done this.
> 
> ...


Don't include it in the redundancy box - this was my mistake when I got some redundancy money. You only include the amount above the cut-off figure, which is anything over £30k (not £35k).

Here's the redundancy & tax factsheet:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/redundancy-factsheet.pdf


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 16, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Don't include it in the redundancy box - this was my mistake when I got some redundancy money. You only include the amount above the cut-off figure, which is anything over £30k (not £35k).
> 
> Here's the redundancy & tax factsheet:
> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/redundancy-factsheet.pdf


 
Thanks.

When I tried, the way I read it was you entered it in this box to show the amount, and then in another box to show it was under 35K.  Which didn't make a lot of sense.  Maybe I read something wrong...


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 16, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Thanks.
> 
> When I tried, the way I read it was you entered it in this box to show the amount, and then in another box to show it was under 35K. Which didn't make a lot of sense. Maybe I read something wrong...


As far as I know, there's just one box. I sent a copy of my redundo letter in too, just so they knew how much it was.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 16, 2012)

It all looks extremely complex.  I'm starting to feel they may not wish people to do a tax return for small amounts of money....


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 17, 2012)

"hey FPG, welcome to the office, here are your 300 tax returns to file by christmas."


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 18, 2012)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> "hey FPG, welcome to the office, here are your 300 tax returns to file by christmas."


No way


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 18, 2012)

8115 said:


> It all looks extremely complex. I'm starting to feel they may not wish people to do a tax return for small amounts of money....


Oh no, they definitely do. It's easier to hammer the little people for 60-70 quid here and there and make Vodafone pay their tax bill of £6bn.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 18, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> No way


*feels sorry for self* 

i don't want to be a drone!


----------



## smmudge (Jul 18, 2012)

8115 said:


> It all looks extremely complex. I'm starting to feel they may not wish people to do a tax return for small amounts of money....


 
It's easy really: if you don't understand the question, answer 'no' or leave it blank.  99% of my tax return answers are 'no' or left blank.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 18, 2012)

smmudge said:


> It's easy really: if you don't understand the question, answer 'no' or leave it blank. 99% of my tax return answers are 'no' or left blank.


 
I got stuck at registering yourself for tax.


----------



## zenie (Jul 18, 2012)

It is easy...if you do your income and expenditure on a month by month basis  

*shoots self*


----------



## smmudge (Jul 18, 2012)

8115 said:


> I got stuck at registering yourself for tax.


 
Oh yeah, actually getting to the tax return point is a bit of a palava.  Once you've figured out which form to fill in to say you're earning money that's not PAYE, then you have to set up the online gateway bollocks, and sign up to the service to fill in your tax return online (luckily you only have to do this once though).  Then if you're not earning that much you have to get the NIC2 exemption certificate.....although I don't know what happens with that when you're earning PAYE and making extra cash, that's my next mission.

Now I know why people pay good money for accountants.


----------



## rorymac (Jul 19, 2012)

I'm no business man but what I recommend self employed people on modest income do is do it online yourself

(1) pay an accountant to do it once

(2) next year do it yourself using the accountants template

(3) don't be over cautious and scared .. don't go backwards on your expenditure

You can carry a loss easily into the next year and no reason why not .. we're all skint


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 28, 2012)

I've finally summoned up the courage to try again.

I think I've got everything right this time (although it's a bugger for having boxes that you seem to need to include stuff in then you find a note hidden under a rock somewhere saying "if X applies you don't need to bother with all those boxes you have just filled in")  

It thinks they owe me about £ 650 which sounds a bit more like it.

I'll run through the whole damn thing again tomorrow and try and send it - I could do with the money!


----------



## free spirit (Aug 29, 2012)

free spirit said:


> am I the latest urbanite to return it before the extended deadline?
> 
> also, it was a nice not to owe any tax after working it all out, but also a bit depressing to see in black and white how little I actually made that year as I was slogging my guts out most of the year.


update - turned out this post was a little premature, as I must have not gone through the 'submit >>> are you sure you want to submit >>> just check it one more time' procedure thoroughly enough, so I ended up getting fined for not submitting the thing, and sure enough there it was in my electronic file fully filled in, but not showing as having been submitted.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 29, 2012)




----------



## Cloo (Aug 29, 2012)

Feck, I'd better start collecting everything some point soon to get to the accountants. I do a good job of keeping most of it together, but there's always a couple of relevant documents that end up in the wrong place...


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 29, 2012)

electronically sent today (and I have an e-mail confirming that I did press 'submit' properly - i assume they are going to come back and request copies of lots of stuff rather than take my word for it, though...


----------



## smmudge (Aug 29, 2012)

It always says 'not submitted' at the top of my e-tax returns but then it has a submission receipt reference down at the end so they sure do like to make it confusing for you.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Sep 24, 2012)

letter from the tax person today



finally summoned up the courage to open it

they agree that they owe me about £ 650 and it's on its way


----------



## Quartz (Sep 24, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> they agree that they owe me about £ 650 and it's on its way


 
Result! Drinks on you, then?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Sep 24, 2012)




----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 26, 2012)

F**king Payments on Account. F**k you HMRC. So now I have to pay the tax for last year and also half that again at the same time as an advance on the next year, why not wait until I submit my tax return for next year, then you can have the money. If someone is self-employed then chances are their income varies so making an assumption that they have the same tax return year to year is daft.

I'll send in the money and they'll send it back out to me again. It must make sense to someone.


----------



## Leafster (Nov 26, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> F**king Payments on Account. F**k you HMRC. So now I have to pay the tax for last year and also half that again at the same time as an advance on the next year, why not wait until I submit my tax return for next year, then you can have the money. If someone is self-employed then chances are their income varies so making an assumption that they have the same tax return year to year is daft.
> 
> I'll send in the money and they'll send it back out to me again. It must make sense to someone.


By the time you have to pay the first payment on account at the end of January you'll already be 10 months through the year that the payment relates so you "should" have hopefully already earned enough to pay it. (Think about people on PAYE where they have the money taken away from them more or less as soon as they earn it)

However, if you've had a bad year this year and your earnings are going to be lower you can request a reduction in the payments on account.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 26, 2012)

Leafster said:


> By the time you have to pay the first payment on account at the end of January you'll already be 10 months through the year that the payment relates so you "should" have hopefully already earned enough to pay it. (Think about people on PAYE where they have the money taken away from them more or less as soon as they earn it)
> 
> However, if you've had a bad year this year and your earnings are going to be lower you can request a reduction in the payments on account.


 
How about they wait until the end of the year and then they won't have to do any messing around with refunding money etc.


----------



## Manter (Nov 26, 2012)

I file tax returns here, in NL, in three US states and for Federal taxes.  I get equalised, which means they all take a chunk and then reluctantly give some back, usually 18 months in arrears.  Last year, between them, they took nearly 70% (most of which just came back).  So zero sympathy 

(actually am hugely sympathetic as I know what a complete nightmare they are and how utterly crap the communication is)


----------



## Leafster (Nov 26, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> How about they wait until the end of the year and then they won't have to do any messing around with refunding money etc.


True, but then they'd have to wait to get their hands on any of the money (even the bit that you would actually owe).

I know it comes as a shock to pay such a large amount in one go especially as you (or HMRC) can't be certain it's the correct amount but as I said above, you still get more flexibility than those on PAYE.


----------



## Looby (Nov 27, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> How about they wait until the end of the year and then they won't have to do any messing around with refunding money etc.



Partly to spread the pain as one huge payment in january is a bit scary and as leafster points out, you have worked most of that tax year by the time you make that payment. 

What should happen if your income doesn't fluctuate too much is that you will have a very small or no balancing payment in future as you'll have covered most of it with payments on account. 

Generally people's incomes don't vary wildly year on year. Obviously there are exceptions to this but it's mostly true.


----------



## Zorra (Dec 1, 2012)

Filled in tax return and had a letter saying I owe them £30: duly paid. Then had a letter on 3rd October saying I had overpaid (I haven't) and they would refund me £2k. Wtf? Still no money been sent to me though. Should I assume they realised it was a mistake and just changed their minds?


----------



## Leafster (Dec 1, 2012)

Zorra said:


> Filled in tax return and had a letter saying I owe them £30: duly paid. Then had a letter on 3rd October saying I had overpaid (I haven't) and they would refund me £2k. Wtf? Still no money been sent to me though. Should I assume they realised it was a mistake and just changed their minds?


It's a bit difficult to work out what might have happened but I'm guessing you filed a paper Return before 31st October and didn't calculate the tax yourself? 

When they said you owed £30 did they send you an SA302 (Tax calculation)? Did you check it against your Return? 

When they sent you the later letter saying you had overpaid, did they send you a revised SA302? Have you checked that? Did it relate to the same tax year?


----------



## Zorra (Dec 1, 2012)

Leafster said:


> It's a bit difficult to work out what might have happened but I'm guessing you filed a paper Return before 31st October and didn't calculate the tax yourself?



Yes, I have to file a paper return because I asked for a split year as an overseas resident. I calculated the tax but more as a footnote (don't remember there being a very complicated bit for the calculations).



> When they said you owed £30 did they send you an SA302 (Tax calculation)? Did you check it against your Return?  When they sent you the later letter saying you had overpaid, did they send you a revised SA302? Have you checked that? Did it relate to the same tax year?



Will have to check the type of paperwork (it's in the office). I didn't check the 30£ but it seemed reasonable enough. The refund was for the same tax year. But it's a refund of an amount that I haven't actually paid out, so it must be a mistake. When I have had a refund in the past the money has come in very quickly after the notice, and the letter of refund letter was already two months ago. 

Thanks for the help!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm actually going to do mine early this year (!!!) if not necessarily submit it, just so that I can work out how the fuck I'm going to pay it before the due date rolls around. Shall definitely be looking at getting a reduction in the forward payment thing.


----------



## _angel_ (Dec 1, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> how the hell does anyone with an online shop account for the stock price of every single item they bought. I have got receipts and more likely electronic information (paypal records) but itemising each single CD.
> Help please..
> I'm about 500 down for the year!


Still worried about this.
Never mind the "online realtime" accounts you'll apparently need to do every WEEK for universal credit. That surely is unworkable??


----------



## smmudge (Dec 1, 2012)

I registered self employed because I do a bit of casual work here and there, but not much really. At first I got the exemption from Class 2 NICs, but then I didn't bother renewing it because it's not much really and I wasn't exactly sure how much I was going to make from freelance work this year anyway. Well, now I've got a full-time job so I'm on PAYE, as well as keeping my self-employed status because I still might get some more casual work before the year is up. But now I'm basically paying two lots of Class 2 NICs. 

Will this 'come out in the wash' as it were when I fill in my tax return? Or should I be telling HMRC something? Honestly I wouldn't find tax so confusing if it weren't for NICs. They are surely the bane of my self-employment status.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 1, 2012)

smmudge said:


> I registered self employed because I do a bit of casual work here and there, but not much really. At first I got the exemption from Class 2 NICs, but then I didn't bother renewing it because it's not much really and I wasn't exactly sure how much I was going to make from freelance work this year anyway. Well, now I've got a full-time job so I'm on PAYE, as well as keeping my self-employed status because I still might get some more casual work before the year is up. But now I'm basically paying two lots of Class 2 NICs.
> 
> Will this 'come out in the wash' as it were when I fill in my tax return? Or should I be telling HMRC something? Honestly I wouldn't find tax so confusing if it weren't for NICs. They are surely the bane of my self-employment status.


 
Call HMRC and talk to them. Tax returns are different than NIC AFAIK.


----------



## porp (Dec 1, 2012)

smmudge said:


> I registered self employed because I do a bit of casual work here and there, but not much really. At first I got the exemption from Class 2 NICs, but then I didn't bother renewing it because it's not much really and I wasn't exactly sure how much I was going to make from freelance work this year anyway. Well, now I've got a full-time job so I'm on PAYE, as well as keeping my self-employed status because I still might get some more casual work before the year is up. But now I'm basically paying two lots of Class 2 NICs.
> 
> Will this 'come out in the wash' as it were when I fill in my tax return? Or should I be telling HMRC something? Honestly I wouldn't find tax so confusing if it weren't for NICs. They are surely the bane of my self-employment status.


 
Hello

Like MonkeyGrinder'sOrgan said -  you really need to talk to HMRC to stop overpaying NIC. This will not 'come out in the wash' in the tax return

If you are in employment, you will be paying Primary Class 1 NIC taken out of your salary. As a self employed person, you will be paying Class 2 NIC. If you are paying both Class 1 and Class 2, there is an annual maximum of NIC that you may well have breached. In this case, HMRC will allow you to defer payment of the Class 2 NIC to stop having to (eventually) refund you after the end of the contribution year.

Yes, Class 2 isn't that much, but there may be nicer things for you to spend your money on.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 1, 2012)

smmudge said:


> I registered self employed because I do a bit of casual work here and there, but not much really. At first I got the exemption from Class 2 NICs, but then I didn't bother renewing it because it's not much really and I wasn't exactly sure how much I was going to make from freelance work this year anyway. Well, now I've got a full-time job so I'm on PAYE, as well as keeping my self-employed status because I still might get some more casual work before the year is up. But now I'm basically paying two lots of Class 2 NICs.
> 
> Will this 'come out in the wash' as it were when I fill in my tax return? Or should I be telling HMRC something? Honestly I wouldn't find tax so confusing if it weren't for NICs. They are surely the bane of my self-employment status.


 
I'm in a similar boat, done very little freelance work this year, so didn't pay the second lot. Now I'm claiming job seekers it says I'm not entitled to income based payments. I really need to sort this out.


----------



## zenie (Dec 1, 2012)

Where is the ignore thread function again?? 

Well, that's my Wednesday taken care of this week


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 1, 2012)

I don't have enough money to need to do a tax return.

*angst*


----------



## zenie (Dec 1, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> I don't have enough money to need to do a tax return.
> 
> *angst*



Then they might owe you money. I think I'll be getting a rebate for 10/11 as I made a loss and got taxed loads on a redundancy.

*hopes*

Are you S.E stuffs?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 1, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> I don't have enough money to need to do a tax return.
> 
> *angst*


 
You mean you're not registered as self employed? You can have fuck all money and still get a big fine for not doing one.

Although as it stands I don't have to pay any tax for last year. This probably isn't something to be pleased about.


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 1, 2012)

zenie said:


> Then they might owe you money. I think I'll be getting a rebate for 10/11 as I made a loss and got taxed loads on a redundancy.
> 
> *hopes*
> 
> Are you S.E stuffs?


No, I'm not registered, I've never made enough to be worth it. 

I know for a fact I am owed PAYE rebates but there is no way to contact them to get hold of the money.


----------



## smmudge (Dec 1, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Call HMRC and talk to them. Tax returns are different than NIC AFAIK.





porp said:


> Hello
> 
> Like MonkeyGrinder'sOrgan said - you really need to talk to HMRC to stop overpaying NIC. This will not 'come out in the wash' in the tax return
> 
> ...


 
Yeah I'm gonna call em Monday!


----------



## zenie (Dec 1, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> No, I'm not registered, I've never made enough to be worth it.
> 
> I know for a fact I am owed PAYE rebates but there is no way to contact them to get hold of the money.



Contact who? The tax office?


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 1, 2012)

zenie said:


> Contact who? The tax office?


It's from before there was one big tax office and you were meant to know which one your agency used etc. 

Definitely owed at least a couple of hundred but when I looked into it allegedly I should just get it one day, maybe, if they haven't sent it and it got lost in the post to somewhere else...dunno. There's no obvious way to contact them and find out anyway.


----------



## Looby (Dec 2, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> It's from before there was one big tax office and you were meant to know which one your agency used etc.
> 
> Definitely owed at least a couple of hundred but when I looked into it allegedly I should just get it one day, maybe, if they haven't sent it and it got lost in the post to somewhere else...dunno. There's no obvious way to contact them and find out anyway.



The income should all still be on your record.

You didn't need to guess which office the agency used anyway, your payslips usually show their employers reference. The first 3 numbers signify which tax district they were in.

If you know the tax years involved, give HMRC a ring and ask them to have a look at those years. It might be that there is missing information, if so they might need P60s and P45s.

Also, just because people have to fill in tax returns it doesn't mean they have any more money than you. Many self employed people are living on very little if their businesses are struggling.


----------



## Zorra (Dec 4, 2012)

Zorra said:


> Filled in tax return and had a letter saying I owe them £30: duly paid. Then had a letter on 3rd October saying I had overpaid (I haven't) and they would refund me £2k. Wtf? Still no money been sent to me though. Should I assume they realised it was a mistake and just changed their minds?



The money just appeared in my account! It's totally a mistake. Should I tell them or will it cause more hassle? Shall I just put it all in a savings account so I don't spend it in case they ask for it back?


----------



## Looby (Dec 4, 2012)

Zorra said:


> The money just appeared in my account! It's totally a mistake. Should I tell them or will it cause more hassle? Shall I just put it all in a savings account so I don't spend it in case they ask for it back?



If you've had a refund you don't think you're entitled to then you need to contact them. Apart from anything you may be charged interest.

You never know, it might be correct then you can blow it.


----------



## smmudge (Dec 5, 2012)

So I called HMRC and they said it was correct that I'm paying both Class 1 and Class 2 NIC and when I asked him about a limit he said there wasn't one. In any case I also found out I can back date an exemption application for Class 2 NICs and get a refund, which I'm gonna because it turns out I'm way under the threshold and have no chance of reaching it this year!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 22, 2013)

I have filled in my tax return amazingly early, seeing as how I thought I wasn't going to be able to afford to pay it and might need to flee the country, and think I've found that I don't have to pay anything (until July) due to payments on account last year!

this will probably turn out to not be true somehow, though


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2013)

I've got tax return _angst deluxe_ this year, what with three PCs fucking up just as I was about to start doing the fecking thing.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 30, 2013)

I did mine. I apparently underpaid my income tax contributions again because payroll seem incapable of applying the right code to my wages.

I made £280 'profit' this year renting out my flat. And with the underpayment the taxman has taken most of it.

I loathe tax returns.


----------



## free spirit (Jan 31, 2013)

argh.

why are the HMRC codes and explanations so fucking useless? It's almost like they deliberately want to catch you out.

eg where is training supposed to go, and which box does loan income into the business go into?

well fucked off that I couldn't afford for the accountant to sort this out for us this year given the size of our turnover. We're almost guaranteed to get audited as well I reckon, but at least everything's relatively in order from the monthly vat accounts.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jan 31, 2013)

This year's earnings. Big fat zero. That's quite angsty.


----------



## free spirit (Feb 1, 2013)

erm, so they apparently want me to pay both the 2011-12 tax bill, and 1/2 of their estimated tax bill for 2012-13 as of midnight just gone.

fuck that, since when were they able to force you to pay half the next years tax bill upfront? I'd certainly not budgeted to be paying that for another year.


----------



## Winot (Feb 1, 2013)

free spirit said:


> erm, so they apparently want me to pay both the 2011-12 tax bill, and 1/2 of their estimated tax bill for 2012-13 as of midnight just gone.
> 
> fuck that, since when were they able to force you to pay half the next years tax bill upfront? I'd certainly not budgeted to be paying that for another year.



Forever. That's how it works if you're self-employed :-(


----------



## High Voltage (Jun 28, 2013)

<smug>
I have completed my 2012-13 tax assessment with a grand amount to pay of £60 <------------------------

I'll admit to having had the assistance of an accountant and that's the best money I've ever spent

I shall NEVER say another bad word about accountants - they truly are wonderful people
</smug>


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 28, 2013)

Urgh doing 'year-end accounts' atm. Lots of fucking work just so HMRC can demand 1000's in corporation tax. Should I change my company name to Amazon and fuck the whole thing off?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 30, 2013)

High Voltage said:


> <smug><smug><smug><smug><smug>
> 
> I have completed my 2012-13 tax assessment with a grand amount to pay of £60 <------------------------
> 
> ...


error. Badly formatted smugness.


----------



## High Voltage (Jun 30, 2013)

Bob_the_lost said:


> error. Badly formatted smugness.


 


High Voltage said:


> <smug>
> I have completed my 2012-13 tax assessment with a grand amount to pay of £60 <------------------------
> 
> I'll admit to having had the assistance of an accountant and that's the best money I've ever spent
> ...


 
Better 

Still got my tax return done and I'm guessing you haven't yet


----------



## smmudge (Jun 30, 2013)

fffffffffffffuuuuck I'm getting over a grand of overpaid tax back!!
I should have filled this out earlier


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 30, 2013)

High Voltage said:


> Better
> 
> Still got my tax return done and I'm guessing you haven't yet


Don't need to. I'm still a PAYE wage slave, my masters/betters handle my tax for me. 

But yes, the tax man and the NSA thank you for your parsable xml....


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 2, 2013)

smmudge said:


> fffffffffffffuuuuck I'm getting over a grand of overpaid tax back!!
> I should have filled this out earlier



I got similar last month.


----------



## Cloo (Jul 6, 2013)

For a positive change: thought I was due to pay £500 this month... turns out it's about £13. 

I think the accountant did mention £500 or so I was owed that he wasn't sure if they'd pay back or just knock off my bill, so looks like they knocked it off the bill.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 7, 2013)

Help.  What does "Date your books or accounts are made up to" mean?

Thanks.


----------



## Leafster (Sep 7, 2013)

8115 said:


> Help.  What does "Date your books or accounts are made up to" mean?
> 
> Thanks.


If you're self-employed you would need to add up all your income and expenses over a fixed period of time. The end of that fixed period of time is the "date your books or accounts are made up to". If you've been self-employed for some time you'll usually draw up Accounts or summarise your income and expenses to the same date each year (usually annually) and then start afresh for a new year so you'll have a summary of 12 months' worth of income and expenses.

If you're new to self-employment the easiest thing to do is draw up your accounts to 5th April each year. This may mean that the first period will often be shorter than 12 months. In this case you'd add up your self-employed income from the date you started to trade until 5th April and then do the same with the expenses and your Accounts would be made up to 5th April.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 7, 2013)

I think I've done it 

It wasn't that bad.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 23, 2021)

8115 said:


> Help.  What does "Date your books or accounts are made up to" mean?
> 
> Thanks.


Just googled this same question and this page is top of google  (well, second to an old HMRC pdf)


----------



## Leafster (Dec 23, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Just googled this same question and this page is top of google  (well, second to an old HMRC pdf)


I suspect the references to "the date your books or accounts are made up to" will disappear from the 2024 Tax Return as they are doing away with basis periods and you'll need to report your income and expenses for the tax year (if you're self-employed).  It's all to do with Making Tax Digital (MTD) and _MTD for Income Tax_ is due to come into effect in the 2023/2024 tax year.


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## StoneRoad (Dec 23, 2021)

G-d, I hate HMRC.

Been paying PAYE & VAT over on a fairly regular schedule, but as allowed some of this has been "in arrears", partly because their stupid on-line system - or some mis-entered data - a while back got out of step with what was intended to happen.
For some reason, they [hmrc] seem totally unable to allocate payments made to the correct tax year / account. 
Thus, the current year is "in credit" because of several over-payments, and a fake "debt" isn't cleared, despite paying in the funds to cover the "debt"  - several times !
So, clearing a "debt" that only arose because they don't allocate correctly has taken years, plus arguing with "collection" ...


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## Elpenor (Dec 24, 2021)

With PAYE you should be able to use the reference that would have been on your old yellow paying in book with the suffix of 2001, 2002 etc for the tax periods 1 and 2 of the 2020-21 tax year in that example. You should be able to find the payment reference (not the PAYE reference!) by logging into the govt gateway for the relevant legal entity.

Suffix 13 for P11D

Hope that makes sense. Not sure re VAT as not my pigeon but I imagine the same principal depending on if it’s paid monthly or quarterly


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## Leafster (Dec 24, 2021)

StoneRoad said:


> G-d, I hate HMRC.
> 
> Been paying PAYE & VAT over on a fairly regular schedule, but as allowed some of this has been "in arrears", partly because their stupid on-line system - or some mis-entered data - a while back got out of step with what was intended to happen.
> For some reason, they [hmrc] seem totally unable to allocate payments made to the correct tax year / account.
> ...


I think the first point is that each tax has different systems within HMRC and these are dealt with by different teams of people. So, if you've accidentally made a payment for say PAYE to the VAT account then HMRC won't be able to reallocate it to the correct tax system. At least, this is the experience I've had with my clients.

If that's what's happened you will need to approach the department with the overpayment and request a repayment of the excess or ask them to reallocate it to a different liability for the same tax. You'll then need to make a payment to the correct tax account to correct the apparent underpayment.

You've only mentioned PAYE and VAT so I won't deal with Corporation Tax or Income Tax procedures.

With PAYE, as Elpenor says the references can be enhanced with the tax year/month so that HMRC can allocate the payment to a specific pay period. So, if you've put 2209 at the end, it will get allocated automatically to December 2021 (being month 9 of the PAYE year 2021/22). HMRC's PAYE systems won't automatically override this if the liability for that month doesn't match. If you don't add the period reference on the end of the PAYE payment reference then HMRC's systems will initially allocate the payment based on when they receive it. So, assuming monthly PAYE payments, HMRC's systems would automatically assume that anything paid today (24th December) would relate to December's PAYE. This is because it's after the due date for November (22nd December) and before the December due date of 22nd January 2022. In my experience, if there have been no enhanced references used and there is an earlier liability then it will eventually get allocated to the earlier liability.

If your PAYE online account shows liabilities in an earlier period and credits in a later one then the first thing to do is check that your RTI submissions are correct. Log onto your PAYE dashboard, look at the charges and credits columns and make sure they have the same information as the P30/P32 in your payroll software. You can drill down into the HMRC dashboard to identify PAYE, NI, Employment Allowance etc.  Please be aware there maybe interest charges or supplements which won't appear in your payroll software unless you've manually added them. If the information (excluding interest etc) doesn't match you'll need to send a further RTI submission from your software to correct this. If the charges and credit columns match then it's a case of contacting HMRC to ask them to reallocate the payments. The Employer's Helpline is usually very good at this but you may be waiting on hold for sometime before you get to speak to someone. You'll need to have the P32 from your software and the details of any payments you've made to hand so you can explain which PAYE payments need reallocating. There's one thing I should point out. Bizarrely, the dashboard that the PAYE officer will be able to see might not match the one you can see! It can be confusing to them but they know this problem exists.

Now, onto the black hole which is VAT. Assuming you're in MTD for VAT then your MTD compliant software will have the details of the VAT Returns you've submitted. It will also draw down the payment information from HMRC. Check this payment history against the payments you think you've made by looking at your nominal/general ledger VAT account and bank account. If there are differences it may be because one or more VAT payments have been made with the wrong reference (ie to the wrong tax or an incorrect reference). With VAT payments the only reference is the VAT registration number with no indication of the VAT quarter so it should just go into the VAT "pot" so long as the correct VAT reference was used. Your bank records should show the HMRC bank account and the VAT reference used for each payment. Double-check these are correct. I have to admit my clients have rarely had problems with VAT payments. The only issues have been when they have been due refunds which haven't materialised. This usually happens because HMRC's VAT system records the bank account for payments to them (for example if you've paid by direct debit) separately from the bank account to which they would make repayments. Pre MTD for VAT this could be checked by logging onto your HMRC VAT portal and reviewing the bank details. I've not had a problem since MTD for VAT so I'm not sure how you could check this now. If all else fails phone the VAT helpline. Expect a very long wait and don't expect it to resolved in one phone call!

If you're being chased by debt collection then explain to them that you're resolving the problem with the relevant tax office. They should put a note on their files which will stop them pestering you for a while.

ETA: If you have an accountant they should be helping you with this


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## Elpenor (Dec 24, 2021)

A good and thorough response that ^

I tend to work for and with bigger companies so a lot of their payment references are built in to the software they use and BACS files are created automatically so the above steps described by Leafster are rarely needed.


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## Griff (Dec 24, 2021)

Got a cheque for just under £500 today (Merry Christmas!) which I assume is some kind of rebate for working from home in 2020. 

Remember filling in some kind of questionaire at the start of the year and completely forgot about it. 

Made up for the £65 fine that also came in the post today for having my front wheels on a yellow box in Leyton.


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## Leafster (Dec 24, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> A good and thorough response that ^
> 
> I tend to work for and with bigger companies so a lot of their payment references are built in to the software they use and BACS files are created automatically so the above steps described by Leafster are rarely needed.


Yeah, most of my clients are smaller businesses so we/they don't use BACS file generation for payrolls.


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## StoneRoad (Dec 26, 2021)

Leafster  & Elpenor 

Thanks, both of you.

Accountants are a nice gang, but getting to see them these days isn't easy.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2022)

Can't remember what I did last year. 

"Cash Basis" is what I want right?


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## Leafster (Jan 18, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Can't remember what I did last year.
> 
> "Cash Basis" is what I want right?


If you log into your Tax Account you should be able to download your Return for last year (I think). That "should" include a box which indicates whether you used the cash-basis then. 

Whether the cash basis is the best for you, it depends!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 18, 2022)

Leafster said:


> If you log into your Tax Account you should be able to download your Return for last year (I think). That "should" include a box which indicates whether you used the cash-basis then.
> 
> Whether the cash basis is the best for you, it depends!


Oh yeah, of course I already kept last years flies on my computer. It's weird, I can't seem to remember anything of last years return, I just remember it being easy, and when I did it I remembered everything from the year before that.


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## equationgirl (Jan 18, 2022)

I'm starting to think about doing it.


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