# Star Trek TV series(es) - general discussion of the franchise



## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2018)

This thread is because I have caused the Netflix thread to be overrun with Star Trek chat.  I'm both a long term Trekkie and a newbie, and wanted to discuss my new findings.  Let me explain:

I was a big fan of Star Trek (*TOS* and to some extent TAS) as a kid.  When the films came out in the late 70s/80s, I lapped them up. I have TOS and the TOS films on DVD (and the TOS films also on VHS). But when TNG came onto the scene I refused to watch.  I didn't want it to ruin the world I'd invested in.

But last year, under peer pressure from my (all younger) siblings, I finally started watching *TNG* on Netflix.  At first I thought it was terrible; all my fears had been confirmed.  Season 1 was terrible and season 2 was mostly poor.  But gradually the odd decent episode appears, and I become invested in some of the characters and their relationships.  First of all Data, especially the episode Measure of a Man (though he was later over-used in "comedy stories") . Then the Borg episodes came along.  They were great.

I hated Q and all the Q stories.  And I thought the last season had run out of steam.  And some of what I had thought of as canon was trampled on a fair bit. And I have lots of notes about inconsistencies around the replicators. But I grudgingly accepted it as part of real Star Trek.

Now I'm on *DS9*.  I'm on season 1, and it's not grabbing me yet.  It has a different feel.  Not surprisingly: it's static for a start.  The theme music reflects that (and is in fact terrible).  And the story lines are more soap-like: there's more about interpersonal drama. This is an observation, not a criticism, except that it's not working for me yet because none of the characters have so far grabbed me.  I find Dax bland.  I don't like Dr Bashir's "acting".  I'm not convinced by Sisco.  And I think the Ferengi having centre stage is a big mistake (I thought they were a badly misjudged species even in TNG).  I'm hoping that the middle seasons will win me over, like TNG did, but so far I'm struggling.  I'm told it gets better, and people on here (B.I.G) suggest it's better than TNG eventually.  So I'll stick with it.

It was my intention to watch all the series(es) in order before starting on Discovery.  But people are telling me Voyager is poor.  That and Enterprise had escaped my consciousness until 2017, so it'll be no loss to me if the consensus is give them a miss.

Anyway, this is a thread for general discussion, for shouting at me for my ignorance/opinions, or for recommendations and observations.

I'd _prefer_ not to read spoilers, but I accept that for everyone else these series(es) are decades old and I'll go with the flow on that.

Make it so.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2018)

I hated ds9 and sisko's acting at first also, but it really grew on me. By the time the Dominion war rolls around either he'd improved or I'd started to 'get' him. The actor is playing a very tightly controlled man, and one with not much room for tomfoolery and jokes. As for cief obrian well its great to have him there. Ltter on theres some sort of love triangle involving him, his wife and kira nerys. Its was tedious as fuck and I don't know if there was a threesome. Off screen but in the fiction so to speak.

Wait till Quark's shit of a nephew turns up, you'll love that.

Odo is more than the data-replacement you might take him for and has an interesting story. As does Jadzia Dax.

Theres an episode where the crew (some of them) go back in time to the enterprise, straight to the tribbles episode. I mention it because dax looks very very good in the older style of uniform.


oh, there is Gold worf in this. Both worf the warrior and LOL worf


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## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2018)

Good. I like Worf.


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## Ax^ (Apr 1, 2018)

Voyager begins poor but gets it feet when the Borg are introduced,

Some good double headers in the later series


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## MickiQ (Apr 1, 2018)

DS9 was probably my favourite of the lot, like all the ST's it hit the odd bum note but for the most part it was really good, it always played by its own rules and had a darker and grittier tone than TOS or TNG.
Voyager I never really took too, there is the odd good story but most are meh, the only character I really liked was The Doctor.
Give Enterprise a chance, like TNG it took time to hit its stride but unlike TNG it got chopped just as it did. The pilot was promising but the first couple of seasons it kind of floundered, S3 it got going with the Xindi war and S4 was excellent with some really good episodes.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> Voyager begins poor but gets it feet when the Borg are introduced,
> 
> Some good double headers in the later series


as much as I dump on voyager it does have its momentI like the Maquis, both in concept* and because chokotay has excellent face tatts


* you can tell that shits pre-9/11. Morally sympathetic terrorists? not today.

any episode where Janeway was in holodeck oirland tho, kill me.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2018)




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## kabbes (Apr 1, 2018)

Voyager was my favourite version of Star Trek.  But then, I’m no obsessive.  I struggle to remember that many storylines and I’ve hardly seen anything more than once.


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## Ax^ (Apr 1, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> as much as I dump on voyager it does have its momentI like the Maquis, both in concept* and because chokotay has excellent face tatts
> 
> 
> * you can tell that shits pre-9/11. Morally sympathetic terrorists? not today.
> ...



the year of hell episode were  cool

red from the 70's show being the evil protagonist rare out for that since robocop


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## Ax^ (Apr 1, 2018)

also seeming as danny has just watched TNG did you notice rikers inability to sit down properly in a chair


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## Scaggs (Apr 1, 2018)

I enjoyed Discovery so much I downloaded Enterprise and watched it all through which was hard work at times. My favorite versions were TNG and Voyager. Hated the deep space shit because I don't like the alien masks. I know there were a few in Discovery, especially the daft Klingons, but can't wait for new episodes.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2018)

while the books are by and large god awful hackwork this is a nice quartet that covers all four treks:
Star Trek: Invasion!


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## QueenOfGoths (Apr 1, 2018)

DS9 is my favourite franchise though I agree to all the criticisms given. Especially about the Ferengi!

I was and am still in love with Julian Bashir and am angry that Gaius Balthar  from Battlestsr Gallatica stole his performance. 

It does have the worst Star Trek episode ever (the singing one ) but also one of the best over all the franchises "The Visitor" mainly due to Tony Todd's stellar performance. 

Oh and Garak is great in everything he does 

The Visitor (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine) - Wikipedia


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## Nine Bob Note (Apr 1, 2018)

They all seem to start slow, it's the prime directive or something. New crews don't get along, and early seasons focus on tensions between them or their struggling to adapt to their new circumstances, and consequently not much else happens. Early aliens/worlds are usually terrible (e.g. the planet of the scantily-clad teenagers where Wesley is condemned to death for stepping on the grass in TNG or "Move along home!" in DS9). VOY, for all of the problems with the Kazon, at least had the Vidians in the early years. With ENT (which I admit I haven't seen anywhere near as much as the others) I got the impression they knew pretty much where they were gonna go from the outset, they just took too damned long going about it.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> "Move along home!" in DS9)


Yes, I complained about that in the Netflix thread. It's the worst thing ever!


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## Supine (Apr 1, 2018)

It would help if I knew what TOS / TAS / TNG etc meant

(not a treckie but I do enjoy watching most of them)


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## Nine Bob Note (Apr 1, 2018)

TOS. The Original Series, or A load of old... Put down the rose-tinted tricorders.
TAS. The Animated Series. Of dubious canonicity and often forgotten.
TNG. The Next Generation. The Picard and Data Show, with added Worf.
DS9. Deep Space Nine. The battle of two Siskos, with Space Nazis.
VOY. Voyager. A much weakened Borg allows them to keep the carpets clean.
ENT. Enterprise. Start with an imaginative title and work from there...


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## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2018)

is the official shorthand for the new one DISCO then. Because it should be


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## emanymton (Apr 1, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> also seeming as danny has just watched TNG did you notice rikers inability to sit down properly in a chair



Apparently it's because what's his name had some kind of back problem.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> is the official shorthand for the new one DISCO then. Because it should be


The cinema ticket stubs for the TOS film, the Undiscovered Country said "Star Trek VI: the Undisco". I kept the stub because I thought that was funny. My band at the time did an Undisco tour and had T Shirts made. 

So I think DISCO would be fitting.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Apparently it's because what's his name had some kind of back problem.


He said the set chairs were all very bad for his back and had no lumbar support. He always sits to one side on the seats on the bridge because there's a hole where your spine would go.


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## Ax^ (Apr 1, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Apparently it's because what's his name had some kind of back problem.



aye i know but once you seen it you cannot unsee it


not a bad morning for discussion of trek

just watch best of both worlds on Scifi


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## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2018)

So, why doesn't Quark replicate gold pressed latinum in the replicators?


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## Nine Bob Note (Apr 1, 2018)

Latinum is either too complex or unstable to be replicated.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2018)

With thanks to B.I.G, I'm going to leave this here: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine | Jammer's Reviews


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## Badgers (Apr 1, 2018)

Never watched Star Trek and feel like I am missing something?


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## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Never watched Star Trek and feel like I am missing something?


You are: Star Trek.


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## agricola (Apr 1, 2018)

DS9 seems to have aged the best of all of them, or maybe its tone fits in best with our benighted times.  Plus Garak is the best Trek character of them all.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> is the official shorthand for the new one DISCO then. Because it should be



STD was already taken.


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## Nine Bob Note (Apr 2, 2018)

Trufax (I've posted this before, but _as _this thread is taking off): Andrew Robinson, as Garak - the greatest supporting character Star Trek has ever seen - was instructed to play gay for the first season. All those breakfasts with the good doctor, he'd have prefered were served in bed.


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## Ax^ (Apr 2, 2018)

saying that Sisko is a fearless leader


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## krtek a houby (Apr 2, 2018)

I first started watching the animated series back in the early 70s. That's what got me into TOS, which I loved. That's what got me to go to the cinema and watch TMP, which, given all its detractors and its faults, I still loved. After WOK, I didn't go and see a Trek film for quite some time. I got restless and didn't get back into the franchise until about 2nd or 3rd series of TNG. Was hooked and watched most of season 1 and 2, which weren't always good. Couldn't wait until DS9 came out and loved that, too. Even if it took a while to move beyond the static (as DLR says) eps. Never caught the last season, although watched the finale.

When First Contact came out, I was ecstatic and went to see it twice. Hadn't done that for a while. Got into Voyager, although never caught the last season. I may have seen the finale but can't remember a damn thing about it. When 7 of 9 arrives, Voyager really changes gear. 

Next up was Enterprise. Watched half of season 1 and gave up. Although, DC did recommend certain eps, which were in the final season and well worth watching. I may go back and try it again some day.

Didn't get excited until the JJ films came out (haven't seen the 3rd). Currently loving STD  and will continue to do so, although with my Trek history, I'll probably end up missing the last season.

I have met people who speak Klingon, so I'm not the biggest fan. I like lots of sci-fi etc but Trek will always have a place in my heart. Except for this one







Wondering will Michael or Sarek ever reference Sybok?


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2018)

I'm currently doing the lot on Netflix and am halfway through series four. Haven't decided if I'm going to complete then do Ds9 or alternate from TNG series 7 onwards.

Personally I feel there were some half decent episodes in the first two series and some proper fucking stinkers in series three. Series 3 episode 9 The Vengeance Factor has been the biggest pile of shit so far.


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> STD was already taken.


I don't think Subscriber Trunk Dialling wants its letters anymore. And VD is STIs now.


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## donkyboy (Apr 2, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> I first started watching the animated series back in the early 70s. That's what got me into TOS, which I loved. That's what got me to go to the cinema and watch TMP, which, given all its detractors and its faults, I still loved. After WOK, I didn't go and see a Trek film for quite some time. I got restless and didn't get back into the franchise until about 2nd or 3rd series of TNG. Was hooked and watched most of season 1 and 2, which weren't always good. Couldn't wait until DS9 came out and loved that, too. Even if it took a while to move beyond the static (as DLR says) eps. Never caught the last season, although watched the finale.
> 
> When First Contact came out, I was ecstatic and went to see it twice. Hadn't done that for a while. Got into Voyager, although never caught the last season. I may have seen the finale but can't remember a damn thing about it. When 7 of 9 arrives, Voyager really changes gear.
> 
> ...



Always found Sybok to be a terrible name. sounds like a transformer.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2018)

If the federation doesn't have money what does Dax pay for her Raktujinos with at Quarks?


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> If the federation doesn't have money what does Dax pay for her Raktujinos with at Quarks?


In TOS and TNG there are several instances of federation officers being issued with money when they're operating in money-using cultures.  I assume that as DS9 is technically a Bajoran station, and there is clearly commerce in the atrium, that something along those lines happens here.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2018)

besides as a long lived trill I'm sure dax has stacked up a few P's along the way. Remember Dax was old around in the TOS era


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> In TOS and TNG there are several instances of federation officers being issued with money when they're operating in money-using cultures.  I assume that as DS9 is technically a Bajoran station, and there is clearly commerce in the atrium, that something along those lines happens here.


There are also references to people 'getting' drinks for each other in ten-forward on the enterprise. I just watched a Cardassian offer to get Chief O'Brien a drink. What's the point of the gesture if it's just saying 'and an ale'?


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2018)

maomao said:


> There are also references to people 'getting' drinks for each other in ten-forward on the enterprise. I just watched a Cardassian offer to get Chief O'Brien a drink. What's the point of the gesture if it's just saying 'and an ale'?


Social, innit. Otherwise they'd all be in their quarters using the replicators.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2018)

I've also just watched Sisko and Kyra go into a sort of canteen on the promenade with no staff and no bar, just tables and a replicator.  He ordered a drink and a fruit pie and offered to obtain her something.  She declined, but sat down with him anyway.  No money changed hands.  Why bother with strips of latinum at Quarks if there are nearby free facilities?  (Let alone their personal replicators in their quarters).

I call this the Roy's Rolls Paradox.  People who live in Coronation Street buy takeaway cups of tea ten feet from their own kettles.  Why?


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2018)

I wondered why you can't replicate dilithium crystals (on the back of the latinum question) and it turns out to have a much less handwavey explanation than 'oh the molecules are too complex'.

There are some crystalline states that can only be caused by rock cooling at a certain rate over a few hundred years. You can't replicate that.


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I wondered why you can't replicate dilithium crystals (on the back of the latinum question) and it turns out to have a much less handwavey explanation than 'oh the molecules are too complex'.
> 
> There are some crystalline states that can only be caused by rock cooling at a certain rate over a few hundred years. You can't replicate that.


It's regularly said that replicator food isn't as tasty as normal food. Also in the episode 'data's day' Dr Crusher says that replicated material contains numerous 'single bit errors'* so wouldn't have thought you'd want to replicate something as vital as dilithium crystals.

*no I don't have an eidetic memory for star trek episodes, I watched that one on the bus this morning.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2018)

maomao said:


> It's regularly said that replicator food isn't as tasty as normal food.


Indeed.  But by TNG it looks much better than in TOS times.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2018)




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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2018)

makes you wonder eh, hopefully the errors all fall within a certain range of what they should be and not say, a bottulism speck.

I've thought about the claim to post-scarcity before and planetsides it seems to be true for the federation but clearly currency will be needed for dealing with aliens and their quaint old ways. But its still putting the lie to 'post scarcity' that they run all starships on one un replaceable, can't be synthesised resource. That simply then becomes the Most Desired Thing which you can trade for material gain. Money doesn't die easy.But then the rodenberry tinged liberalism of TNG could be annoying. Picard is a philsopher captain and so on but I know gunboat diplomacy when I see it. And the Prime Directive is a paper tiger.


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## Nine Bob Note (Apr 2, 2018)

I seem to recall a VOY episode (it may have been The Void) where Chakottay reacted with surprise to their stocks of dilithium being stolen by transporter as it was such a common substance ...but that could just be a recent thing (considering the events of UC), or perhaps only in the Delta Quadrant.


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## mwgdrwg (Apr 2, 2018)

DS9 is my favourite, the entire story arc was great.

At this very moment I am nursing a major hangover and watching TOS on Netflix .Spock has been shot, and Kirk has been poisoned and healed by a sexy woman in a shamanistic ritual. Lots of bad wigs.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2018)

I'm on S2:E3 of DS9. It's the third of a string of Tobies. I'm getting the hang of this now. Much better than S1. And the characters are gelling better too.


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## Nine Bob Note (Apr 2, 2018)

Start working on your top five eps (across all shows) I wanna hear them!

*Off for a think*


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Start working on your top five eps (across all shows) I wanna hear them!
> 
> *Off for a think*



Do the polls in December. I'll have rewatched them all by then.


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## scifisam (Apr 2, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm on S2:E3 of DS9. It's the third of a string of Tobies. I'm getting the hang of this now. Much better than S1. And the characters are gelling better too.



It's well worth it from then on. Lots of characters you end up caring about.

Voyager had some decent episodes but the problem for me was that I hated Neelix SO much that I won't rewatch an episode unless I'm sure he's not in it.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 2, 2018)

Just started watching from the beginning with The Cage.  How many episodes are there to get through altogether?


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## StoneRoad (Apr 2, 2018)

Am a bit of a fan, but not going to go into the fine details, but I'll give a short summary.

Started with TOS but dislike most of the animated (seemed non-canon). Next Generation was largely OK, unlike a lot of people I found the later appearances of Q funny, espec the interactions with Troi senior. Some TNG plots seemed almost updates of TOS offerings.
I did find some of the Voyager characters unbelievable (yep, looking at Neelix) and the "darker" aspects of DS9 were irritating at times (and some seemed utterly pointless) didn't like the dominion war. Enterprise was a bit meh, got better with the xindi arc but I wish it hadn't done a war arc.
Films, mostly OK apart from the finding god one (that was truly dire).
However, I've not really bothered with the "re-boot" material, maybe sometime.

Oh, I've quite enjoyed some aspects of the parody aspect in Galaxy Quest (wonder if I'll like orville ?)


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## scifisam (Apr 2, 2018)

I think if you liked Galaxy Quest then you'll like the Orville. I love both.


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> Just started watching from the beginning with The Cage.  How many episodes are there to get through altogether?


Well over 600


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## Orang Utan (Apr 2, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> Just started watching from the beginning with The Cage.  How many episodes are there to get through altogether?


Answering my own post: 718 
yikes


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> Answering my own post: 718
> yikes


That's why I've swerved TOS and TAS for the moment.


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## cybershot (Apr 2, 2018)

Only just spotted this thread. Sorry for the long post.

For me, my first real experiences of Star Trek, were the movies. Sci-fi and computers was something I was very keen on from a very young age. Coming from a somewhat deprived upbringing by a single parent who was working as hard as they could to bring money in and food on the table, meant things like computers were far out of reach, and I would go round friends houses to play games on their Spectrum’s or Commodore computers.

One thing I could do from home, was rent movies. I specifically recall my first Star Trek exposure being Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

This would go on to this day to be my favourite film out of all the Star Trek films.

From there, my young imagination at home would run wild. Whatever I could find to pretend to be a star ship, would be, and whatever I could pretend to be enemy ships, again would be. I didn’t need original figures or toy ships. I had my imagination.

Of course back then, there were only 4 channels on TV. Unlike today, where you can probably find Star Trek in one form or another airing on a channel somewhere, it really wasn’t on TV much, so my exposure again was limited to home movie rentals, and with thing’s like the Internet still a way off. A young boy like me had no idea if and when further movies would appear.

Fast forward to 1990 and my Mum would re-marry. In 1990, a new Star Trek series would air in the UK for the first time. Some 3 years after it originally started in the States!

It turned out my new stepdad was a big fan of the original series. So the first episode of TNG was put on. Encounter at Farpoint. To be honest, as a 10 year old, I found the early TNG episodes slow and pretty boring. My stepdad moaned that the show was practically the same as the show that had come some 20 years before it, even the planet sets still looked crap. I think between the both of us, we got bored of TNG pretty quickly, and it didn’t take long before neither of us continued watching it.

Fast forward again to 1995. Now Satellite TV in the UK has took off, Sky TV grab the rights to domestic football in the UK. This was a massive game changer for UK TV, and it helped subscribers flock to Sky in order to get their fix of football. With it also came all these extra TV channels. Mostly, still airing a load of crap if I’m honest.

I was now a geeky 15 year old, getting home after School would see Sky One put on to watch the X-Men cartoon, and not too long after that at 5pm, Sky decided to start showing Star Trek: The Next Generation at 5pm, every day. This every day part was key. By this time the 6th season on TNG was either airing in the US or about to finish. Sky had the rights to show new episodes also, which meant it arrived much sooner in the UK, but it also meant on weekdays, there would be 6 whole seasons of TNG to get through. Of course when I re-watched Encounter at Farpoint again, I wasn’t expecting to get hooked. Star Trek basically stayed on at 5pm, because nothing else any better was on. I watched those first few episodes of season 1, mainly for nostalgia purposes. As Season 1 finished, I probably still wasn’t that bothered, Season 2 aired and it was much of the same. I think a lot of people will agree that Season 3 of TNG was a game changer. Stories were much better, the direction was better, the show seemed to have a bigger budget, and storylines were just also, better. Now I was hooked. Before I knew it we were through all 6 seasons of TNG. Now what!!!

Deep Space Nine.

Deep Space Nine was fairly new at this point, but Sky decided they would air all the current episodes back to back, suddenly there was more to this world than just the next generation, and with season 7 of TNG about to start, a 2nd season of DS9 on the horizon, and Sky again then opting to show every episode of TNG daily, of which I would watch every episode AGAIN for a 2nd time.

This whole television program was now consuming me.

Books would be purchased. Model star ships would be purchased. Yes. I was turning into one of those. I was turning into. A Trekkie. Star Trek: Voyager would come and go and give another 7 years of adventures in the 24th century.

Then Star Trek: Enterprise came along, and I hated it.

I must admit I still have not seen every episode of the original series. I’m not a huge fan of it, and going back before the original series, kind of annoyed me. There was also continuation parts that didn’t make sense to Star Trek canon. At this point I was very geeky about Trek, and understood the timeline. How can we have a series based before TOS. It’s just going to mess up the timeline.

Like those first few episodes of TNG, I was one of those people that turned off Enterprise early on. It would be a fateful mistake. Not only would it bring an end to Star Trek being on TV. Enterprise once I actually revisited it years later, was actually really good, and because of poor viewing figures from people like me, we lost it far earlier than was intended and I’m sure we missed out on some great stories.

Of course since then we’ve seen a film franchise reboot and, I was really hoping if a new TV series came along, it would explore that original Star Trek timeline from that movie reboot, the destruction of Romulus, and what is happening some 50+ years since the last episode of TNG in the Alpha quadrant, and a chance again for Star Trek to invent future technologies. But with Discovery we are going backwards yet again, and again we’re going for a prequel based before the adventures of Kirk & Spock!

As much as Discovery was a bit of a roller coaster of a ride for me, by the end of it. I really enjoyed it.

I think the oddest thing for me with Star Trek is that the majority of what it's creator was involved in (TOS and those first couple of seasons of TNG) I just don't actually like. I thank him for creating Trek, but for me Rick Berman & Michael Piller created the Star Trek I love.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2018)

Just watched the Dax-Jacking episode (DS9 S2:E4).  Good moments, but strangely unconvincing. Why did Dax go along with the new host? Why wasn't there more of Dax's personality if the host was such a sap?  Also, why does Quark get away with all his wrongdoing?  His part in the jacking will presumably be forgiven.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 2, 2018)

maomao said:


> It's regularly said that replicator food isn't as tasty as normal food. Also in the episode 'data's day' Dr Crusher says that replicated material contains numerous 'single bit errors'* so wouldn't have thought you'd want to replicate something as vital as dilithium crystals.



And yet the related transporter technology is used routinely in TNG times.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 2, 2018)

In the first episode of TOS S01E01, a character is referred to as 'space happy'


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## mwgdrwg (Apr 2, 2018)

scifisam said:


> It's well worth it from then on. Lots of characters you end up caring about.
> 
> Voyager had some decent episodes but the problem for me was that I hated Neelix SO much that I won't rewatch an episode unless I'm sure he's not in it.



scifisam


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 3, 2018)

Watched a DS9 episode last night where Dr Bashir was trying to cure a terrible virus. He was going on about the 'mutation rate is increasing' which he was somehow able to determine via a visual assesment of one patient. No samples, no plates, no quantitative analysis of any empirical data at all in fact. He also did some of the worst TV CPR I've ever seen.

I like Bashir as a character, but he needs striking off from the Space Medical Council ASAP. And why he is going on away teams and flying spaceships and shit, instead of staying put in his sick bay and actually treating people? Dickhead.


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## mwgdrwg (Apr 3, 2018)

I never noticed any of that about Bashir. The worst thing about him is his disgusting letchy behaviour towards Dax, epecially early on.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 3, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> I never noticed any of that about Bashir. The worst thing about him is his disgusting letchy behaviour towards Dax, epecially early on.



He was a creep, but a believable creep. DS9 took some of the saccharine shine off the Trek universe and was all the better for it IMO.

In fact I think his story was he'd been sent out to the arse end of Federation space because he was a bit of a dick and nobody else wanted him.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2018)

Bashir gets cool points for doing section 21 dirty work. Lying to your bredrins for the greater good eh bashir? excellent.

according to a scene filmed (but not broadcast) of Discovery, Evil Gouigous (fucked if I can spell that) is recruited by them and will be involved in next season of disco disco


----------



## kabbes (Apr 3, 2018)

maomao said:


> It's regularly said that replicator food isn't as tasty as normal food. Also in the episode 'data's day' Dr Crusher says that replicated material contains numerous 'single bit errors'...


Sounds like a recipe for cancer.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 3, 2018)

Section 31


----------



## Old Gergl (Apr 3, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> In fact I think his story was he'd been sent out to the arse end of Federation space because he was a bit of a dick and nobody else wanted him.


Embarrassingly illegal genetic enhancement by pushy parents, or was that someone else?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2018)

Old Gergl said:


> Embarrassingly illegal genetic enhancement by pushy parents, or was that someone else?


no thats him. I felt at the time this was an annoying power level upping for no good reason except we need bashir to be nails later.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 3, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> no thats him. I felt at the time this was an annoying power level upping for no good reason except we need bashir to be nails later.



A rare example of an actual explanation for a sci-fi character who can mysteriously do just about anything. Dax had her multiple lifetimes of experience, Bashir had his ilegally enhanced brain. Also kind of explains some of his dickish arrogance.


----------



## steveo87 (Apr 3, 2018)

One more for DS9:


----------



## cybershot (Apr 3, 2018)

Funniest scene ever in Star Trek?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 3, 2018)

15 mins into DS9 S2:E7 "The Rules of Acquision". It's absolutely terrible. It's a Ferengi-heavy load of tripe. Even the Gamma Quadrant aliens are garbage in look and realisation. Jim Henson would have scrapped it. I can't face watching the whole thing, so I'm skipping it. This is even worse than Spock's Brain.

I haven't skipped any Trek so far. (And I watched the whole of TOS S3).


----------



## B.I.G (Apr 3, 2018)

Next one is good.


----------



## maomao (Apr 3, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> 15 mins into DS9 S2:E7 "The Rules of Acquision". It's absolutely terrible. It's a Ferengi-heavy load of tripe. Even the Gamma Quadrant aliens are garbage in look and realisation. Jim Henson would have scrapped it. I can't face watching the whole thing, so I'm skipping it. This is even worse than Spock's Brain.
> 
> I haven't skipped any Trek so far. (And I watched the whole of TOS S3).


The Ferengi stuff suffers from similar problems to the Klingon episodes in TNG. A massive Federation rivalling civilisation turns out to be run by two or three characters that are happy to be influenced by our human heroes. It just ends up making both cultures look like cardboard cut outs. At least (as I remember) the Cardassians seem to have a little depth.

And if you haven't skipped any Star Trek yet it's because you haven't seen Neelix yet.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 3, 2018)

maomao said:


> And if you haven't skipped any Star Trek yet it's because you haven't seen Neelix yet.


Not until this thread I hadn't. He looks like the Zany Guy people sometimes post on here.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 3, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> 15 mins into DS9 S2:E7 "The Rules of Acquision". It's absolutely terrible. It's a Ferengi-heavy load of tripe. Even the Gamma Quadrant aliens are garbage in look and realisation. Jim Henson would have scrapped it. I can't face watching the whole thing, so I'm skipping it. This is even worse than Spock's Brain.
> 
> I haven't skipped any Trek so far. (And I watched the whole of TOS S3).



Trufax: That's actually one of the two episodes that got me started on DS9 (I currently forget which was the other). My original TNG tapes came from someone who copied them off BBC2, but one of them was a mislabelled DS9 tape containing this.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 3, 2018)

B.I.G said:


> Next one is good.


It was. I'm glad I skipped to it.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 4, 2018)

Obviously down to personal preference, but there's a lot of star trek which can be skipped, for those that are starting, or just started a certain series and happy to skip past the episodes that have no future references or importance, heres a decent list to go by starting with TOS.

The Original Series Episode Guide


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## krtek a houby (Apr 4, 2018)

Isn't skipping a bit, well, cheating? (says me who has missed entire last seasons and most of Enterprise...)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 4, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Isn't skipping a bit, well, cheating? (says me who has missed entire last seasons and most of Enterprise...)



There are plenty of episodes even of TNG and DS9 that are just not worth 45 minutes of anyone's time, not even in a 'look how shit this is' way. It's a bit like the opposite of the X-files in that the episodes that are part of a larger arc are usually great wile some the of the standalone stories are crap. The internet is a rich source of episode guides to help spare you the duds.

With Enterprise you want to stop watching before it starts and then pick it up again shortly after it's over.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 4, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Isn't skipping a bit, well, cheating? (says me who has missed entire last seasons and most of Enterprise...)



Depends on your outlook. Star Trek of yesteryear and indeed most TV back then, episodes, let alone series were also stand-alone. With little continuity. Pretty much all of TOS and early seasons of TNG were all about alien of the week, rather than character building. 

Skipping past most of TNG season 1 and 2 I recommend for anyone that's new to Star Trek and enjoys modern day (13 episode seasons that tell one big story, much like Discovery, where you can't skip an episode) TV.

DS9 argulably was one of the first shows to have one big massive story arc over 7 seasons, but even so, still many of season 1,2 and part of 3 can be skipped, and ditto with Voyager.

It's just seems to be how Star Trek was, slow starts, that you just wouldn't get away with today.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 4, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Depends on your outlook. Star Trek of yesteryear and indeed most TV back then, episodes, let alone series were also stand-alone. With little continuity. Pretty much all of TOS and early seasons of TNG were all about alien of the week, rather than character building.
> 
> Skipping past most of TNG season 1 and 2 I recommend for anyone that's new to Star Trek and enjoys modern day (13 episode seasons that tell one big story, much like Discovery, where you can't skip an episode) TV.
> 
> ...



In relation to the latest incarnation, I do think it's worth watching from the original series:



Spoiler: these ones



Mudd's Women
I, Mudd
The Tholian Web
Mirror, Mirror


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 4, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> He was a creep, but a believable creep. DS9 took some of the saccharine shine off the Trek universe and was all the better for it IMO.
> 
> In fact I think his story was he'd been sent out to the arse end of Federation space because he was a bit of a dick and *nobody else wanted him*.



I did..do!!


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 4, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Not until this thread I hadn't. He looks like the Zany Guy people sometimes post on here.



Just fwd the Neelix bits, is my recommendation but don't skip the actual eps as he's in pretty much most of them...


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 4, 2018)

Also, I think danny mentioned the DS9 theme as being a bit underwhelming. They make subtle changes to the opening titles around season 3 or 4 and it's an improvement. Nothing radical but more agreeable.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Also, I think danny mentioned the DS9 theme as being a bit underwhelming. They make subtle changes to the opening titles around season 3 or 4 and it's an improvement. Nothing radical but more agreeable.


I see what they were doing.  This is a programme about a static space station on the edge of Federation territory, not a star ship travelling at the permit-able maximum warp.  The music captures that mood.  But that means it isn't setting a mood of anticipation for an exciting story.  It's more like an unremarkable interlude you have to get through.


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## steveo87 (Apr 4, 2018)

If you've never watched an episode of DS9, In The Pale Moonlight is absolutely boss.


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## yield (Apr 4, 2018)

Loved the story arc in DS9, even more than Babylon 5 or Battlestar Galatica. 

Police feared that Trekkies could turn on society


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 4, 2018)

steveo87 said:


> If you've never watched an episode of DS9, In The Pale Moonlight is absolutely boss.



Won't have much effect without at least some idea of the backstory and characters involved though.


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## Sea Star (Apr 4, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Won't have much effect without at least some idea of the backstory and characters involved though.


Maybe someone could produce a list of skippable episodes for those of us who still feel far too intimidated by the sheer mass of available episodes compared to available time to watch stuff.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 4, 2018)

Sea Star said:


> Maybe someone could produce a list of skippable episodes for those of us who still feel far too intimidated by the sheer mass of available episodes compared to available time to watch stuff.



I’ve posted a link to one on the previous page.


----------



## Sea Star (Apr 4, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I’ve posted a link to one on the previous page.


Did read through the thread. Must have missed that. Thanks!


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 10, 2018)

I liked the Maquis episodes. Didn't like the Kira and Bashir parallel universe one. Didn't add anything to the TOS episode,_ Mirror, Mirror_, that it references. All a bit pointless and crap.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 11, 2018)

There was a nice website I used to visit that reviewed and rated each episode and specified whether or not it was neccessary to watch for story-arch purposes, but unfortunately it appears to be abandonded and virus-ridden these days


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2018)

O'Brien does a lot of running a level one diagnostics on the subroutine. Or rerouting it through the secondary buffers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2018)

They've got their own starship now. That solves the static problem. (The runabouts always sound too much like the secondhand Golf a sitcom mum picks the kids up from school in).

It's cool that the Defiant has 



Spoiler



a cloaking device


----------



## cybershot (Apr 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> O'Brien does a lot of running a level one diagnostics on the subroutine. Or rerouting it through the secondary buffers.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 12, 2018)

‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 2 Casts Anson Mount as Captain Pike


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2018)

Bashir's acting is improving but Sisko's is getting even worse.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 14, 2018)

cybershot said:


>



"Bide our time, Miles. One day, we'll be giving orders to lieutenants who won't even question the command structure in a galaxy seemingly ruled by a recently promoted captain. Admiral Ross might even blow us. Anything but Keiko. 'Kin'ell."


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 14, 2018)

cybershot said:


> ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 2 Casts Anson Mount as Captain Pike



Hmm. I sat through the first 2 eps of Marvel's Inhumans and he wasn't very convincing. Then again, I couldn't stand Jon Bernthal in Walking Dead and he turned out brilliant as The Punisher...


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## cybershot (Apr 14, 2018)

Do we need another thread if we want to talk about the movies?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Do we need another thread if we want to talk about the movies?


I'm happy for that discussion to take place here, but if you think it'll get lost in the thread, maybe start a new one. 

TOS and TNG films can sensibly be discussed here. But maybe there's a need for the New Universe films to go elsewhere. (I'm not the best judge of what's canonical. I tend to have a low threshold).


----------



## cybershot (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm happy for that discussion to take place here, but if you think it'll get lost in the thread, maybe start a new one.
> 
> TOS and TNG films can sensibly be discussed here. But maybe there's a need for the New Universe films to go elsewhere. (I'm not the best judge of what's canonical. I tend to have a low threshold).



The reboot is canon. Just a parallel universe! 

The countdown graphic novel is also considered official canon which explains the build up in the TNG era really well. Picard is admiral and data is captain of the enterprise e (obviously rebuilt from the parts found in nemesis)



But yes I do agree, reboot film discussion would probably be frowned upon by the masses!


----------



## kabbes (Apr 14, 2018)

Frowned upon by the hardcore, you mean, not the masses.

I watched Insurrection last night.  I remembered it to be a terrible film, but it was actually even worse than that.  None of it makes any sense.  Stuff (particularly small scale stuff) just happens with no apparent prior cause and then it never gets mentioned again.  The “good guys” are 600 elitist pricks whilst the “bad guys” are trying to save billions of lives.  Picard spends a lot of time just looking around in a weird way.  Ill-advised jokes abound that make you cringe.  It ranks in the worst 5% of films I have ever seen.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Frowned upon by the hardcore, you mean, not the masses.
> 
> I watched Insurrection last night.  I remembered it to be a terrible film, but it was actually even worse than that.  None of it makes any sense.  Stuff (particularly small scale stuff) just happens with no apparent prior cause and then it never gets mentioned again.  The “good guys” are 600 elitist pricks whilst the “bad guys” are trying to save billions of lives.  Picard spends a lot of time just looking around in a weird way.  Ill-advised jokes abound that make you cringe.  It ranks in the worst 5% of films I have ever seen.


I've not seen any of the TNG films (because until recently I didn't consider TNG to be Star Trek. So I was harder than hard core). I recently purchased a box set of them all, second hand. I'm now wondering how wise that was.


----------



## kabbes (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I've not seen any of the TNG films (because until recently I didn't consider TNG to be Star Trek. So I was harder than hard core). I recently purchased a box set of them all, second hand. I'm now wondering how wise that was.


Unless they paid you to take Insurrection away, it was unwise.

(Actually, First Contact is  Seely mediocre and worth watching if you like completing your Star Trek viewing.  Nemesis I remember being bad too, but I plan to rewatch it in the near future to test my memory).

Amazing how shocking the FX all look too, by the way.  Like a computer game of 15 years ago.  There’s no proper shadowing — everything looks way too bright and uncluttered.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

I'm now just over half way through DS9 series 3. So, given that it's 7 seasons long, I'm just over half way through DS9. And so far it's very patchy. It has some of the worst episodes of Star Trek I've ever seen (Fascination, for example). And the very worst acting. (Sisko). I'm not getting the "it's the best series" vibe at all. And as for the reputation it has for doing "politics" well; the time travel to the Earth ghetto was overtly political, but while a fun romp, was hardly quality political insight. It was cringey at best.


----------



## Santino (Apr 14, 2018)

I just realised that Riker is almost an anagram of Kirk.


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## strung out (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm now just over half way through DS9 series 3. So, given that it's 7 seasons long, I'm just over half way through DS9. And so far it's very patchy. It has some of the worst episodes of Star Trek I've ever seen (Fascination, for example). And the very worst acting. (Sisko). I'm not getting the "it's the best series" vibe at all. And as for the reputation it has for doing "politics" well; the time travel to the Earth ghetto was overtly political, but while a fun romp, was hardly quality political insight. It was cringey at best.


Halfway through series four would be halfway through DS9 

I quite like a lot of the early episodes, but the storylines that give it the 'best series' reputation really do start around series 4 onwards (albeit with seeds sown earlier).


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

strung out said:


> Halfway through series four would be halfway through DS9


It's 9 seasons long?


----------



## strung out (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> It's 9 seasons long?


176 episodes, so halfway through is episode 88 - season 4 episode 16: Bar Association


----------



## Santino (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> It's 9 seasons long?


By halfway through season 4 you are three and a half seasons in.


----------



## Santino (Apr 14, 2018)

I think it's interesting how the real Kirk of TOS has been overwritten in collective memory with the womanising parody version.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

Santino said:


> By halfway through season 4 you are three and a half seasons in.


Doh! You're right, of course.

I've only had one coffee and I've got a bad cold.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Bashir's acting is improving but Sisko's is getting even worse.



I like Avery Brooks' acting. It's ridiculous but in an oddly compelling way. He has a way of delivering lines with maximum drama while still giving the impression he's trying with all his might to tone it down.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2018)

Generations is the first Trek film I saw on the big screen, and its probably still the best. Guynan gets to be in it as well.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm now just over half way through DS9 series 3. So, given that it's 7 seasons long, I'm just over half way through DS9. And so far it's very patchy. It has some of the worst episodes of Star Trek I've ever seen (Fascination, for example). And the very worst acting. (Sisko). I'm not getting the "it's the best series" vibe at all. And as for the reputation it has for doing "politics" well; the time travel to the Earth ghetto was overtly political, but while a fun romp, was hardly quality political insight. It was cringey at best.


Out of curiosity what did you think of duet?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 14, 2018)

I love how Troi is the ship's counsellor but everyone with an actual problem goes straight to Guinan instead.


----------



## B.I.G (Apr 14, 2018)

As is usual on urban,I'm having the best of it 

I started rewatching the next generation. I skipped season one and two  but I have enjoyed a good 95 percent of the episodes. No one is annoying me like they used to


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Out of curiosity what did you think of duet?


I think I liked that one. I find Kira one of the most compelling characters. The actor has some quirks I don't like, but on the whole is very good at conveying nuance and complexity.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I like Avery Brooks' acting. It's ridiculous but in an oddly compelling way. He has a way of delivering lines with maximum drama while still giving the impression he's trying with all his might to tone it down.


He also does that weird thing of random emphasis.

He did a particularly fascinating sudden outburst of fury in second episode of the past Earth riot double bill, when he yelled at the cop hostage. It was 0-75 in no seconds. Amazing. And his "acting while not the one talking at that moment" is bizarre. Watch those two episodes but just look at him. It's like a lesson in what not to do.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I think I liked that one. I find Kira one of the most compelling characters. The actor has some quirks I don't like, but on the whole is very good at conveying nuance and complexity.


It's an episode that always stuck in my mind. I really like it, but at the same time it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable becauae of the degree of sympathy it makes me feel for a character whose backstory is basically 'feels guilty for working at a concentration camp, and not doing anything about it'. But I think the fact it makes me feel that way. is part of why I like it so much.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 14, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I love how Troi is the ship's counsellor but everyone with an actual problem goes straight to Guinan instead.


I'd have been round Troi's office all the time tbf.

"Deanna, I genuinely can't remember if it's cheese first or beans."

"Deanna, I'm doing a survey on what everyone's favourite...er...type of...penguin is. No, I haven't asked anybody else yet."

"Deanna, if I beat Worf in an arm wrestle, will you go out with me?"

etc


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

emanymton said:


> It's an episode that always stuck in my mind. I really like it, but at the same time it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable becauae of the degree of sympathy it makes me feel for a character whose backstory is basically 'feels guilty for working at a concentration camp, and not doing anything about it'. But I think the fact it makes me feel that way. is part of why I like it so much.


Well yes, but it's the fact that he's decided (belatedly) to do something to try to change Kardashian society (something that involved him sacrificing his life) that wins Kira, and us, over.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Well yes, but it's the fact that he's decided (belatedly) to do something to try to change Kardashian society (something that involved him sacrificing his life) that wins Kira, and us, over.



Cardassian  Though Kardashian society probably could do with a change too.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 14, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Unless they paid you to take Insurrection away, it was unwise.
> 
> (Actually, First Contact is  Seely mediocre and worth watching if you like completing your Star Trek viewing.  Nemesis I remember being bad too, but I plan to rewatch it in the near future to test my memory).
> 
> Amazing how shocking the FX all look too, by the way.  Like a computer game of 15 years ago.  There’s no proper shadowing — everything looks way too bright and uncluttered.



Most of the tng films bar first contact. Which still isn’t great are poor. Which is a shame. I love tng. I’m not huge on tos but the tos films are great. The big long story arc of 2,3 and 4 is lovely. 6 is brilliant too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

scifisam said:


> Cardassian  Though Kardashian society probably could do with a change too.


C/f Star Trek TV series(es) - general discussion of the franchise

(It's a good enough gag to have running throughout the thread).


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

Cross-thread beef:

What are you having for breakfast?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> He also does that weird thing of random emphasis.



It's like he's got a certain tune in his head and he follows that when speaking, regardless of the actual contents of the line. Like a slightly stoned bass clarinetist who forgot his sheet music but is determined to power through regardless.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Like a slightly stoned bass clarinetist who forgot his sheet music but is determined to power through regardless.


I spat out some mashed potato.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2018)

This has been bothering me since the Ferengi first appeared on TNG: the fringe of material most of them wear at the back of their heads is clearly to hide a latex join or some such. But in-Universe, is there an explanation for _how_ these fringes are attached?  

It's always bothered me, but since Quark doesn't wear one but Nog and Quark's brother do, the discrepancy kind of makes the issue shout at me more. 

Hair would have been more sensible make-up wise, but given they went for a gravity-defying head-dress, in-Universe, how is it held up? There's no boney ridge at the back of Quark's bare head, for example. So what is it?


----------



## cybershot (Apr 15, 2018)

Good tng ep on horror channel this morning. 

Future Imperfect (episode)


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I love how Troi is the ship's counsellor but everyone with an actual problem goes straight to Guinan instead.


In tos McCoy offers Kirk a drink on the basis people tell their barman more than they do their doctor. An echo of that.


----------



## Santino (Apr 15, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Good tng ep on horror channel this morning.
> 
> Future Imperfect (episode)


One of my favourites, that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 24, 2018)

So, last one I watched was Starship Down (DS9 S4:E6).  In it Kira had to talk to Sisko to keep him awake (because he had "a concussion"). She confessed she was awkward talking to him about anything other than work  because in her religion he is the Emissary [Because of that stuff about him finding the Celestial Temple (the wormhole)], so she can't talk to him like she talks to Dax. But Kira knows Dax was with Sisko when the wormhole was discovered. In fact I seem to remember it being Dax who told her.

So my question is this: why is Dax not a religious icon in the Bajoran religion too?


----------



## kabbes (Apr 24, 2018)

I watched Nemesis.  It’s not a good film, it’s not a bad film, it’s not really an anything film.  It just... happens.  One scene at a time.  Without much in the way of momentum or purpose or point.  And then a spaceship blows up.

So that’s all three Next Gen films watched in the space of a month or so.  It wasn’t worth the effort, frankly.  One alright one, one that was so awful it will bother me for years to come and one utter cypher.


----------



## Santino (Apr 24, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I watched Nemesis.  It’s not a good film, it’s not a bad film, it’s not really an anything film.  It just... happens.  One scene at a time.  Without much in the way of momentum or purpose or point.  And then a spaceship blows up.
> 
> So that’s all three Next Gen films watched in the space of a month or so.  It wasn’t worth the effort, frankly.  One alright one, one that was so awful it will bother me for years to come and one utter cypher.


There are.. FOUR... films!


----------



## B.I.G (Apr 24, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> So, last one I watched was Starship Down (DS9 S4:E6).  In it Kira had to talk to Sisko to keep him awake (because he had "a concussion"). She confessed she was awkward talking to him about anything other than work  because in her religion he is the Emissary [Because of that stuff about him finding the Celestial Temple (the wormhole)], so she can't talk to him like she talks to Dax. But Kira knows Dax was with Sisko when the wormhole was discovered. In fact I seem to remember it being Dax who told her.
> 
> So my question is this: why is Dax not a religious icon in the Bajoran religion too?



Its not about finding the wormhole. He is the Sisko.


----------



## kabbes (Apr 24, 2018)

Santino said:


> There are.. FOUR... films!


You mean Generations?  I view that as in-betweeny, not Next Gen.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 24, 2018)

kabbes said:


> You mean Generations?  I view that as in-betweeny, not Next Gen.



It's more Next gen than it is anything else.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 24, 2018)

Started rewatching DS9 on a whim (was waiting on a podcast being published last Friday). Think it's three/four years since my last rewatch, and IIRC that wasn't complete. Have started at S4, though (The Way of the Warrior - my favourite episode of Trek). Might have to go back and cherry-pick the good episodes, S3 is mostly solid.


----------



## strung out (Apr 24, 2018)

Watched an episode of Voyager last night where they find an ex-Borg community who have decided to leave the collective to form a worker's co-operative on a hippy commune planet.


----------



## Graymalkin (Apr 25, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> So, last one I watched was Starship Down (DS9 S4:E6).  In it Kira had to talk to Sisko to keep him awake (because he had "a concussion"). She confessed she was awkward talking to him about anything other than work  because in her religion he is the Emissary [Because of that stuff about him finding the Celestial Temple (the wormhole)], so she can't talk to him like she talks to Dax. But Kira knows Dax was with Sisko when the wormhole was discovered. In fact I seem to remember it being Dax who told her.
> 
> So my question is this: why is Dax not a religious icon in the Bajoran religion too?


If i recall Dax was not contacted by the prophets.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 25, 2018)

Graymalkin said:


> If i recall Dax was not contacted by the prophets.


I'd need to rewatch the episode in question.  But she did co-discover the Celestial Temple.  And she was Sisko's pilot.  So maybe she could have a lesser title.  Pilot of the Emissary.  Pessary for short.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 28, 2018)

If someone wants to start a new thread for reboot film franchise or a dedicated Star Trek 4 thread, then feel free, but for the moment, I'm dumping this here:

‘Star Trek 4’: S.J. Clarkson Becomes the First Female Director in Franchise’s History (EXCLUSIVE)


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 28, 2018)

S☼I said:


> I'd have been round Troi's office all the time tbf.
> 
> "Deanna, I genuinely can't remember if it's cheese first or beans."
> 
> ...


I would have deleted her number from my phone communication device, and thanked Q that she worked in a different part of the building ship.


----------



## cybershot (May 3, 2018)

Just watched this. It's quite a hard watch as generally everyone the girl comes across is a twat to her, decent cast for a straight to DVD type movie. There's not a whole lot of Trek to it, but will appeal to fans of the franchise in one way or another I think.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2018)

Just watched DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations" where they time travel to the TOS Enterprise during the Tribble episode! It's fab!!!

They took part in the bar brawl scene, and the scene where Kirk asks "who threw the first punch?"  Most of the scene splicing works really well. (The only bit that doesn't is when Sisko gets to meet Kirk on the bridge. But I'm going to let that pass). 

Of course the DS9 crew asked Worf about the way the Klingons looked back then: "We do not discuss it with outsiders."


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Just watched DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations" where they time travel to the TOS Enterprise during the Tribble episode! It's fab!!!
> 
> They took part in the bar brawl scene, and the scene where Kirk asks "who threw the first punch?"  Most of the scene splicing works really well. (The only bit that doesn't is when Sisko gets to meet Kirk on the bridge. But I'm going to let that pass).
> 
> Of course the DS9 crew asked Worf about the way the Klingons looked back then: "We do not discuss it with outsiders."


I laughed a lot when Odo was ripping him about klingons hating tribbles 'do they still sing songs about the great tribble hunt'?' etc


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2018)

It's definitely my favourite DS9 episode so far. And it tops any TNG episodes too. So, I'm glad it happened. Even if Sisko bungled some of what could have been good scenes. (EG spoiling the moment when he forgot that badges aren't communicators with shit "acting").


----------



## maomao (May 14, 2018)

I got a bit sick of TNG half way through series 5. I needed a break after the episode where Picard gets stuck in the lift with the children. So I've started DS9 earlier than planned. Even the much maligned first series is very good so far. Loving Odo even if he is a petty fascist.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2018)

maomao said:


> I got a bit sick of TNG half way through series 5. I needed a break after the episode where Picard gets stuck in the lift with the children. So I've started DS9 earlier than planned. Even the much maligned first series is very good so far. Loving Odo even if he is a petty fascist.


I think when it aired DS9 overlapped TNG, so you're probably doing the right thing.


----------



## maomao (May 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I think when it aired DS9 overlapped TNG, so you're probably doing the right thing.


It started same time as series seven so I'm a series and a half early. We've had the Ensign Ro episode that is the first set up though.


----------



## Poi E (May 14, 2018)

Never watched DS9 but I've watched everything else. Might be time to give it a shot.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 14, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Never watched DS9 but I've watched everything else. Might be time to give it a shot.



It's the best one!


----------



## Poi E (May 14, 2018)

And my wife and I thought we had run out of star trek. excellent.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2018)

Is there an approved recipe for rakticcino? (sp?)


----------



## fishfinger (May 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Is there an approved recipe for rakticcino? (sp?)



Definition here:
Raktajino

Unofficial recipe here:

Sadly, seems to be missing the  ra'taj.


----------



## cybershot (May 14, 2018)

Horror Channel is up to season 5 of TNG now.

darmok and jalad at tanagra.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Horror Channel is up to season 5 of TNG now.
> 
> darmok and jalad at tanagra.


Shaka when the walls fell.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 14, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Horror Channel is up to season 5 of TNG now.
> 
> darmok and jalad at tanagra.


all tng available on netflix, slowly working my way through the original series. did discovery in a couple of caffeine-fuelled nights a few weeks back


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> all tng available on netflix, slowly working my way through the original series. did discovery in a couple of caffeine-fuelled nights a few weeks back


Season two is best.  Season three has some highlights but is mostly dire.  The worst is Spock's Brain.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2018)

Oh. My. God.  The horror.

Alone at lunchtime and hyped on the joy of the best DS9 episode I've seen so far (nay, the best post-TOS episode yet), I thought I'd watch a cheeky episode over my Spanish omelette (delicious, thanks). So I fired up Netflix and sat down to enjoy Let He Who Is Without Sin. 

I should never have mentioned Spock's Brain. It jinxed me. 

This is the worst Trek ever. And possibly the worst TV ever. And I saw a few minutes of Love Island. Actually it was very like Love Island, but the dialogue was worse. Fucking hell, I thought Spock's Brain was bad. This was worse. Much worse. 

Don't watch it. Skip to the next episode. Which even though I haven't seen it can't possibly be worse.


How was this allowed? My faith in humanity has been dashed. And I was so happy after the Tribbles episode. 

:shakes fist at sky:


----------



## cybershot (May 14, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> all tng available on netflix, slowly working my way through the original series. did discovery in a couple of caffeine-fuelled nights a few weeks back



His eyes open.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh. My. God.  The horror.
> 
> Alone at lunchtime and hyped on the joy of the best DS9 episode I've seen so far (nay, the best post-TOS episode yet), I thought I'd watch a cheeky episode over my Spanish omelette (delicious, thanks). So I fired up Netflix and sat down to enjoy Let He Who Is Without Sin.
> 
> ...


Their faces wet.


----------



## maomao (May 14, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Horror Channel is up to season 5 of TNG now.
> 
> darmok and jalad at tanagra.


That episode winds me up. How the fuck does the universal translator know they are saying place and people names? It surely translates meanings rather than the roots. How do you acquire a language based on cultural references to the point that it's untranslatable but lose the ability to use the building blocks of those references? It's just nonsense.


----------



## B.I.G (May 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh. My. God.  The horror.
> 
> Alone at lunchtime and hyped on the joy of the best DS9 episode I've seen so far (nay, the best post-TOS episode yet), I thought I'd watch a cheeky episode over my Spanish omelette (delicious, thanks). So I fired up Netflix and sat down to enjoy Let He Who Is Without Sin.
> 
> ...



Zero stars [DS9] Jammer's Review: "Let He Who Is Without Sin..."


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2018)

maomao said:


> That episode winds me up. How the fuck does the universal translator know they are saying place and people names? It surely translates meanings rather than the roots. How do you acquire a language based on cultural references to the point that it's untranslatable but lose the ability to use the building blocks of those references? It's just nonsense.


It's great. I love the fact that the language is a code based on stories. So how did they tell the stories? 

The Time Investigation Unit should probably look into it.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 24, 2018)

Klingon Phrases «

*Your mother has a smooth forehead! *


----------



## danny la rouge (May 24, 2018)

I think it'd be great if, in the nursing home, all I could remember is Klingon. The staff would be at a loss to know what language I was speaking. Then one day a volunteer would recognise it as Klingon and feed me gach.


----------



## agricola (May 26, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I think it'd be great if, in the nursing home, all I could remember is Klingon. The staff would be at a loss to know what language I was speaking. Then one day a volunteer would recognise it as Klingon and feed me gach.



Or take you out on one last mission so you can die properly, with honour.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2018)

I'm on season 6 now. Most recently watched the one where mirror universe Vedek Barial comes to steal an Orb.  I don't like the mirror universe stories.

So. On another matter. Something troubling me. Universal translator. It's working all the time translating (and lip synching) everything you say.

So how do Klingons know you've said "Qapla!" to them in their own language rather than just "good luck"?


----------



## Graymalkin (Jun 2, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm on season 6 now. Most recently watched the one where mirror universe Vedek Barial comes to steal an Orb.  I don't like the mirror universe stories.
> 
> So. On another matter. Something troubling me. Universal translator. It's working all the time translating (and lip synching) everything you say.
> 
> So how do Klingons know you've said "Qapla!" to them in their own language rather than just "good luck"?



The mirror universe episodes are weak overall.  As for the translators it's just something you have to suspend disbelief for.  But for the phrase 'Qapla' I always assumed it was a well known phrase (like 'au revoir') and they were just saying it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2018)

Graymalkin said:


> But for the phrase 'Qapla' I always assumed it was a well known phrase (like 'au revoir') and they were just saying it.


Ah, bien sur, that makes sense.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2018)

Universal translators can manage any nuance of tense, of meaning, of the chains of meaning that make a word what it is relative to the words behind and in front of it. Yet apparently they only have a soft AI rather than a weakly godlike one. Swizz.


----------



## maomao (Jun 2, 2018)

I struggle to suspend disbelief when they're in disguise on another planet like in Reunification and a local Romulan questions their accents.

I've done series one of DS9 (which was great) and gone back to TNG for the moment. The decision on whether I'm actually going to bother with Voyager or not is looming.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Universal translators can manage any nuance of tense, of meaning, of the chains of meaning that make a word what it is relative to the words behind and in front of it. Yet apparently they only have a soft AI rather than a weakly godlike one. Swizz.


Although when 



Spoiler: DS9 late on



Bashir gets together with the genetically altered mental health service users, they ask to hear the negotiating Varda in his original language in order to catch grammatical nuances that give away his intentions.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2018)

maomao said:


> The decision on whether I'm actually going to bother with Voyager or not is looming.


Not to belabour the obvious, but is the answer not to watch the first few and see if you are enjoying the experience?


----------



## emanymton (Jun 2, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Not to belabour the obvious, but is the answer not to watch the first few and see if you are enjoying the experience?


But if you take that approach how many of us would have watched more than a couple of TNG episodes?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Not to belabour the obvious, but is the answer not to watch the first few and see if you are enjoying the experience?



No, early Voyager is terrible (tbf, first seasons of ST usually are), though the Vidians are truely nasty by Trek alien standards.

Watch a couple of the Voyager two-parters - they are generally good to great. I recommend the Basics, which pretty much wraps up early Voyager (though some may argue the following season finale does that).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2018)

Some plants have numbers in their names.  Uninhabited non M class planets, fine: you're charting a new star system, you name the planets after the star and number them Starry McStarface I, Starry McStarface II, etc.

Similarly, a space-faring civilisation might move HQ to a new planet.  Perhaps the home world is dying.  So, yes.  Numbers there is fine too.

But why would a pre warp civilisation name its _own_ planet with a number? eg Rubicun III?  It doesn't make sense.


----------



## fishfinger (Jun 6, 2018)

Maybe the universal translator converts the name to Starfleet's designated name?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2018)

fishfinger said:


> Maybe the universal translator converts the name to Starfleet's designated name?


There's no maybe about it.  That's definitely it. From now on.


----------



## strung out (Jun 6, 2018)

I've always identified myself as a native of Sol III to be fair


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2018)

strung out said:


> I've always identified myself as a native of Sol III to be fair


Not Humanis Prime?


----------



## strung out (Jun 6, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Not Humanis Prime?


Not personally, but far be it from me to stop my fellow Terrans calling our planet whatever they like!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 17, 2018)

I'm on the last season of DS9 now. Just met Ezri Dax. She seems a better actor than Jadzia. Although I had got used to  Jadzia's character towards the end. Mind you they never gave Jadzia anything to do except stand in Ops and react to dialogue or play cards with Quark at the beginning of episodes. I'm hoping they use Ezri better.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 17, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm on the last season of DS9 now. Just met Ezri Dax. She seems a better actor than Jadzia. Although I had got used to  Jadzia's character towards the end. Mind you they never gave Jadzia anything to do except stand in Ops and react to dialogue or play cards with Quark at the beginning of episodes.


And be creepily stalked by Bashir.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 24, 2018)

I'm up to S7: E14 of DS9. Season 7 isn't as good as S6. Which was itself patchy.  There are good episodes here and there, but while I do like DS9, I don't think it's as good as TNG.

There are some good ideas and some good episodes, but it feels far more soap-like, and at times not very Trek like at all.

And then there are the episodes where it clearly thinks it's being dark, but just isn't as dark as it thinks, and it comes off very unconvincingly. I'm thinking of the one where Sisko and Garak plot to bring the Romulans into the war. I found myself quite bored, to be frank. It might have worked better with a better lead actor, but I doubt it. (Kirk would have been far, far better. He knew how to ignore directives, prime or otherwise, when he needed to and still stay infuriatingly sure of his moral rectitude). Or the one where Nog loses his leg defending a communications array. It's supposed to be a horrors-of-war study, but it's ground that is covered far better elsewhere and it suffers badly from any comparisons that are brought to mind.

I had hoped Ezri might be given some good stories, but the one with her family and the feckless artist brother (Ted from Mad Men) who turned out to be a killer! Oh my. That was excruciating. It was often like a 60s sit com. And then when someone commits murders on the station a couple of episodes later, she seems to have forgotten that she has a murderer in the family, saying "I can't believe anyone would commit murder [in this post scarcity utopia, being the implication]".

So, I'm saying I like it, but it's definitely going below TNG in the ranking. And this last season is nose diving rapidly.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 25, 2018)

Looks like there could be a whole host of new Trek TV coming. With people already seemingly fed up with Star Wars films being thrust down their throats every 9-12 months let's hope they don't go OTT.

Star Trek: 5 New Potential TV Series in Development


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 2, 2018)

I've finished DS9. I liked it fine, but it wasn't my favourite Trek. Maybe I'd have liked it better if I'd seen it as it aired at the time. But I think a lot of it doesn't stand up well to the passage of time, and it doesn't live up to the hype from fans. And overall, it just isn't Trek-like enough for me. 

I've watched the opening double bill of Voyager. I have to say that I already like it better than DS9. I like the set up, I like the concept, I liked the Caretaker entity (_much_ more TOS than anything in DS9), and I even liked Neelix (which people on this thread had told me I wouldn't).

I'm encouraged that this may be more to my taste. Let's see.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 2, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I even liked Neelix


I no longer trust your opinions on anything.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 2, 2018)

I'm also glad to have a Vulcan main character back. That was sorely missing from TNG and DS9. For me the Federation is about the relations between Earth and Vulcan. That's been largely missing since TOS.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 2, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I've finished DS9. I liked it fine, but it wasn't my favourite Trek. Maybe I'd have liked it better if I'd seen it as it aired at the time. But I think a lot of it doesn't stand up well to the passage of time, and it doesn't live up to the hype from fans. And overall, it just isn't Trek-like enough for me.
> 
> I've watched the opening double bill of Voyager. I have to say that I already like it better than DS9. I like the set up, I like the concept, I liked the Caretaker entity (_much_ more TOS than anything in DS9), and I even liked Neelix (which people on this thread had told me I wouldn't).
> 
> I'm encouraged that this may be more to my taste. Let's see.



Clearly this is the mirror universe danny posting


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 2, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Clearly this is the mirror universe danny posting


I _hate_ the Mirror Universe (in DS9. In TOS it was great).


----------



## cybershot (Jul 3, 2018)

That just confirms it. It’s mirror Danny.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 3, 2018)




----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 3, 2018)

TOS can get away with mirror universes as it has a higher percentage of melodrama.

DS9 can make an evil mirror universe dull. 

plus it didn't have enough beards.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 3, 2018)

Will you watch strar trek enterprise danny la rouge , when you finish voyager? I never did see much of that, the evil mirror two parter and random Ep's. The two parter that covers smooth/ridges. Its Rubbish


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 3, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> So. On another matter. Something troubling me. Universal translator. It's working all the time translating (and lip synching) everything you say.
> 
> So how do Klingons know you've said "Qapla!" to them in their own language rather than just "good luck"?



It's the same bit of software that means Jean-Luc can say "merde" without it being translated.


----------



## Signal 11 (Jul 3, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Will you watch strar trek enterprise [...] Its Rubbish


It's second best after ds9 imo.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 3, 2018)

For me I only really am a big fan of TOS (TAS and movies included). TNG DS9 and VOY were all fine to watch first time around but I feel no need to watch them again. I tried ENT but it didn't feel worth my time. (First season anyhow I do know it got better but I'd given up by then)

I'm slowly making my way though DISCO. It's good  but not as good as I'd hoped.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 3, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Will you watch strar trek enterprise danny la rouge , when you finish voyager? I never did see much of that, the evil mirror two parter and random Ep's. The two parter that covers smooth/ridges. Its Rubbish


Yes.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 8, 2018)

I'm powering through VOY S1. I love it. It's proper Trek. It's far better than TNG and DS9. 

What I like it that it's a starship out on its own, discovering new civilisations and new life, like TOS. Not stuck in the same place, doing the same things, like DS9. And not surrounded by the safety net of the Federation like TNG. Pioneering.

I was such a fan of TOS that I didn't want to watch any spin offs in case they mucked up the recipe. VOY is what I was hoping for.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2018)

On the one had chakotay is everything I want from a noble terrorist, on the other hand there is holodeck episodes


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 9, 2018)

Don't forget his holodeckesque mystical visions


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 9, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm powering through VOY S1. I love it. It's proper Trek. It's far better than TNG and DS9.
> 
> What I like it that it's a starship out on its own, discovering new civilisations and new life, like TOS. Not stuck in the same place, doing the same things, like DS9. And not surrounded by the safety net of the Federation like TNG. Pioneering.
> 
> I was such a fan of TOS that I didn't want to watch any spin offs in case they mucked up the recipe. VOY is what I was hoping for.



I can kinda see what you mean

TNG felt weird.  Sometimes it tried to be exploring the unknown but most of the time it just seemed to be sailing well know waters.  

DS9 was what it was. 

VOY is the odyssey of the trek franchise. I just wish it wasn't held back by it's  made for syndication TV  model.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 9, 2018)

Inspired by the urban memes thread I made this


----------



## kabbes (Jul 10, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm powering through VOY S1. I love it. It's proper Trek. It's far better than TNG and DS9.
> 
> What I like it that it's a starship out on its own, discovering new civilisations and new life, like TOS. Not stuck in the same place, doing the same things, like DS9. And not surrounded by the safety net of the Federation like TNG. Pioneering.
> 
> I was such a fan of TOS that I didn't want to watch any spin offs in case they mucked up the recipe. VOY is what I was hoping for.


Page 1 Danny:



kabbes said:


> Voyager was my favourite version of Star Trek.  But then, I’m no obsessive.  I struggle to remember that many storylines and I’ve hardly seen anything more than once.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 11, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> while the books are by and large god awful hackwork this is a nice quartet that covers all four treks:
> Star Trek: Invasion!



That's a game. Here are the books- Invasion!. I remember getting the first one free with Star Trek Monthly. 



StoneRoad said:


> Am a bit of a fan, but not going to go into the fine details, but I'll give a short summary.
> 
> Started with TOS but dislike most of the animated (seemed non-canon). Next Generation was largely OK, unlike a lot of people I found the later appearances of Q funny, espec the interactions with Troi senior. Some TNG plots seemed almost updates of TOS offerings.
> I did find some of the Voyager characters unbelievable (yep, looking at Neelix) and the "darker" aspects of DS9 were irritating at times (and some seemed utterly pointless) didn't like the dominion war. Enterprise was a bit meh, got better with the xindi arc but I wish it hadn't done a war arc.
> ...


You've revealed something of yourself there. The Q - Lawaxana interactions only happened in a novel although the actors did act out an abridged version on audio. How I know this is not to be discussed.



danny la rouge said:


> 15 mins into DS9 S2:E7 "The Rules of Acquision". It's absolutely terrible. It's a Ferengi-heavy load of tripe. Even the Gamma Quadrant aliens are garbage in look and realisation. Jim Henson would have scrapped it. I can't face watching the whole thing, so I'm skipping it. This is even worse than Spock's Brain.
> 
> I haven't skipped any Trek so far. (And I watched the whole of TOS S3).



I hope you didn't miss the first mentions of the Dominion. 



Pickman's model said:


> In tos McCoy offers Kirk a drink on the basis people tell their barman more than they do their doctor. An echo of that.


It's actually Boyce who says this to Pike in The Cage. 




danny la rouge said:


> Just watched DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations" where they time travel to the TOS Enterprise during the Tribble episode! It's fab!!!
> 
> They took part in the bar brawl scene, and the scene where Kirk asks "who threw the first punch?"  Most of the scene splicing works really well. (The only bit that doesn't is when Sisko gets to meet Kirk on the bridge. But I'm going to let that pass).


It is also the only bit not spliced into the Trouble with Tribbles. He is edited into a scene from Mirror, Mirror. It is from the scene where Kirk first meets the prime universes version of the character he later discovers is his mirror universe duplicates lover. If you watch the original it explains the creepy way the bridge crew are watching the interaction.



danny la rouge said:


> I've finished DS9. I liked it fine, but it wasn't my favourite Trek. Maybe I'd have liked it better if I'd seen it as it aired at the time. But I think a lot of it doesn't stand up well to the passage of time, and it doesn't live up to the hype from fans. And overall, it just isn't Trek-like enough for me.
> 
> I've watched the opening double bill of Voyager. I have to say that I already like it better than DS9. I like the set up, I like the concept, I liked the Caretaker entity (_much_ more TOS than anything in DS9), and I even liked Neelix (which people on this thread had told me I wouldn't).
> 
> I'm encouraged that this may be more to my taste. Let's see.



Neelic gets worse and increasingly irrelevant.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 23, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> That's a game. Here are the books- Invasion!. I remember getting the first one free with Star Trek Monthly.



I think I got that one free too.

I'm 90% sure I also read one of the others and may even have got an omnibus edition.


I seem to remember liking the TOS one the most.


----------



## Dandred (Jul 23, 2018)

Recently got netfilx and so far on s4 ep10 of the next generation. I have two months of holidays so have loads of time.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 25, 2018)

Mirror Universe Kira


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 26, 2018)

Voyager has finally offered up some stinkers.

In an attempt to make Paris interesting, they decided to restage David Cronenberg's the Fly, lost their nerve, turned Paris and Janeway into giant salamanders, made them have babies together, then abandon the babies on a deserted M class planet never to be spoken of again. Callous, perhaps. But best to forget the whole thing.

Then there was Tuvok being posessed by the psychopathic tendencies of a murderous Betazoid after a Mind Meld accident. 

And of course, the return of Rentaghost. (I suppose one thing ENT will have going for it is that it won't have Timothy bleeding Claypole).

In addition, they seem to have given up on writing anything for Kes.

I'm hoping we're over the stinkers now.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 26, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm powering through VOY S1. I love it. It's proper Trek. It's far better than TNG and DS9.
> 
> What I like it that it's a starship out on its own, discovering new civilisations and new life, like TOS. Not stuck in the same place, doing the same things, like DS9. And not surrounded by the safety net of the Federation like TNG. Pioneering.
> 
> I was such a fan of TOS that I didn't want to watch any spin offs in case they mucked up the recipe. VOY is what I was hoping for.


I agree with this, I think my problem with it was that I just didn't really like any of the characters.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 26, 2018)

emanymton said:


> I agree with this, I think my problem with it was that I just didn't really like any of the characters.


I liked Chacotay straight away. He makes me question my sexuality. Paris doesn't live up to his initial billing, though. He's boring. And I'm not sure why Kes is just being left to pass things to the holograph Doctor. They could have done much more with her. 

Janeway's style didn't win me over straight away, but I soon got to understand her.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 26, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked Chacotay straight away. He makes me question my sexuality. Paris doesn't live up to his initial billing, though. He's boring. And I'm not sure why Kes is just being left to pass things to the holograph Doctor. They could have done much more with her.
> 
> Janeway's style didn't win me over straight away, but I soon got to understand her.


It's shallow but I don't like Jaynway's voice. 
Chacotay, the doctor and latter on Seven are ok. The rest are at best bland at worst actively irritating.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 26, 2018)

emanymton said:


> It's shallow but I don't like Jaynway's voice.


I know what you mean, but it reminds me of Katherine Hepburn, who was great.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 26, 2018)

Yes, exactly! I really liked the doc, too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 26, 2018)

One more niggle: Harry often seems actively bored. (Except in the episode where he got caught in a time anomaly).


----------



## emanymton (Jul 26, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I know what you mean, but it reminds me of Katherine Hepburn, who was great.


Yeah but I'm not that old.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2018)

props to holodoc and b'ellana but they don't often get 'them' centric episodes do they. Appearances in medbay or engineering, almost never away mish.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 26, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> props to holodoc and b'ellana but they don't often get 'them' centric episodes do they. Appearances in medbay or engineering, almost never away mish.


B'ellana is too whiney about being half-klingon.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 27, 2018)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I think I got that one free too.
> 
> I'm 90% sure I also read one of the others and may even have got an omnibus edition.
> 
> ...


It probably was. The next generation and voyager ones continue the story even sharing a character while the Deep Space Nine one tells the story of the enemies enemy and how they ended up banished to the delta quadrant.


----------



## Santino (Jul 27, 2018)

In my memory the Voyager arc gets worse, but there are some good non-arc stories.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 4, 2018)

Big news:


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 4, 2018)

Anyone else watch SF Debris?


good scifi reviewer with  the best voice inside Janeway's head


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 4, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Big news:




Discovery season 3 episode?


----------



## cybershot (Aug 4, 2018)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Discovery season 3 episode?



Unlikely. It’s to be set 20 years after TNG. CBS announced a while back upto 5 other series were being talked about. A Picard series was one of them. One assumes it will be based on life after the federation.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 4, 2018)

I was thinking a trials and tribbleations (or flashback) style thing

maybe even a these are the voyages  style thing
These Are the Voyages... (episode)

a full picard series seems a big jump


----------



## cybershot (Aug 4, 2018)

It would still be nice to see something new new. Not constantly re visiting the past and former characters. It will be nice to finally jump 20 years after TNG. maybe see a sexy looking enterprise F at some point. Which might at least then finally pave the way for a brand new series set further on. Getting a bit bored of all these TOS reboot/ before Kirk stories.

Let’s kick on in the 24th century.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 4, 2018)

Discovery style stuff seems nice

grab a period of time and  just  follow a ship/crew for a season or five year mission.


----------



## agricola (Aug 4, 2018)

cybershot said:


> It would still be nice to see something new new. Not constantly re visiting the past and former characters. It will be nice to finally jump 20 years after TNG. maybe see a sexy looking enterprise F at some point. Which might at least then finally pave the way for a brand new series set further on. Getting a bit bored of all these TOS reboot/ before Kirk stories.
> 
> Let’s kick on in the 24th century.



I honestly hope not; if anything I'd love a series where Picard has to come to terms with everything his life has done to him whilst also trying to get to grips with retirement and an entirely oblivious French countryside.  That episode ("Family") that was basically just about him, his brother and his brother being the only person he could open up to was fantastic, probably my favourite Picard episode of them all.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 5, 2018)

cybershot said:


> It would still be nice to see something new new. Not constantly re visiting the past and former characters. It will be nice to finally jump 20 years after TNG. maybe see a sexy looking enterprise F at some point. Which might at least then finally pave the way for a brand new series set further on. Getting a bit bored of all these TOS reboot/ before Kirk stories.
> 
> Let’s kick on in the 24th century.



Yeah, as much as I enjoy the shows, the era is still a bit narrow. Go forwards, not backwards.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 5, 2018)

agricola said:


> I honestly hope not; if anything I'd love a series where Picard has to come to terms with everything his life has done to him whilst also trying to get to grips with retirement and an entirely oblivious French countryside.  That episode ("Family") that was basically just about him, his brother and his brother being the only person he could open up to was fantastic, probably my favourite Picard episode of them all.



Oh don’t get me wrong. I’m very excited about this. I just want to move forward. There was so much to explore with the demise of Romulus event which caused Spock prime to go into whatever they call the reboot dimension.

I hope they touch on this in the new series, as in the countdown graphic novel. Which is considered canon I believe to set up the new reboot films Picard was admiral and data was captain of the enterprise.

There’s so much to still explore from that event and 20 years after it might be the right place to pick up. Although I don’t expect it to be the main story arc for the Picard series. More as you say. His retirement. Generations touched upon his regrets. Such as no children.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 5, 2018)

I've been watching the TNG films for the first time. Generations was a bit slow and felt more like an overblown episode than a film, and a weird mix of big budget and low budget (maybe they ran out of money) but there were good bits. Data singing about tiny humans, Kirk being all Kirky, and so on.

Last night I watched First Contact. It had a strange feel too. It was much better paced though. 

However, I did feel they'd fucked around with canon. Cochrane was not at all like the Cochrane we met in TOS. (He's in the episode with The Companion, and we meet him there much later in life, though restored to the age he was when he invented warp). He seemed different in age, looks, character. The era he comes from seems completely different. When we first meet him he's an all American-type, a clean-cut Federation pilot, and he's extended space flight, which we get the impression is already a daily fact of life. In Generations he's a drunk, hillbilly cyber-punk from a post-Apocalypse, who has _rediscovered_ space flight. His warp flight appears to be his first off-world trip. And he's a much older man than we're told to expect by TOS. 

The addition of a Queen to the Borg collective irritated me a bit. I could see the bee analogy worked, but she seemed to have more personality than made sense. 

And though I'm glad we finally get to see Jordi's facial expressions, a mention of why might be good. He'd always rejected prosthesis before.  

It was enjoyable, but not as good as the best of the TOS films.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2018)

I had strong feelings about the borg queen back then.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 5, 2018)

Maybe the complete re-write on Earth and Federation history has an explanation. Maybe the timeline was more infected by the Borg than the Enterprise crew realised.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 5, 2018)

Most of the TNG films are disappointing. First contact is by far the best but doesn’t stand up to constant re-watches. Unlike 2,3,4 & 6 which I can watch over and over. Which is a bizarre twist because I don’t really get in with TOS. I’ve found it impossible to get through the whole series. Still don’t think I’ve seen every episode of TOS. Where as TNG I’ve seen every episode at least 3 times. The good ones even more.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 5, 2018)

I'm excited about the invention of warp drive on April 5, 2063, because it's just about achievable for me to see it. I'll be 97.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Aug 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm excited about the invention of warp drive on April 5, 2063, because it's just about achievable for me to see it. I'll be 97.


I'll be coming up fast on 92. Odd, I thought you were older than that. Not Sass old but maybe late fifties


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 5, 2018)

S☼I said:


> I'll be coming up fast on 92. Odd, I thought you were older than that. Not Sass old but maybe late fifties


You read the thread about me owning a Honda, didn't you. No, I was born in 65.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 6, 2018)

So a Picard standalone show?

Will he be living with his elderly retired Starfleet dad along with his brother (oh no wait, he burned to death) and an attractive English housekeeper?

Will he be hosting a radio show helping Dominion War vets with PTSD?

Perhaps he'll find two other old codgers, one on spacemans comp and another who sounds remarkably like the voice actor of a popular kids movie series, and have adventures in the most languid pastoral regions of space where they sail around in old starships.


----------



## cheesethief (Aug 7, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> ...
> 
> The addition of a Queen to the Borg collective irritated me a bit. I could see the bee analogy worked, but she seemed to have more personality than made sense.
> 
> ...


Loved First Contact, but the Queen kind of ruined the Borg for me. What made them so genuinely scary in the early days was the notion of an emotionless, relentless force, something that truly could never be reasoned with, bargained with, threatened, something that could never challenged on any psychological level, yet was hugely powerful & intelligent. And crucially something with no centre, no hierarchy, no authority figure that could be singled out. As soon as you introduce a queen you ruin all that, you humanise the thing, you introduce weakness, fallibility, emotion... "We are the Borg" loses its impact. Now it's just another ship of baddies with a captain.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2018)

A hive must have a queen. Still, I get you though. Feels less implacable and alien. IIRC Ian M Banks termed such things 'aggressive hegemonizing swarms' 

I just read Jean Luc's statements about coming back to star trek and he is such an ACT-orly person. You'd have thought he was genuinely about to take the helm of a human starship rather than being brought back so CBS All Access can monetize the one good IP they have in order to sell a shit streaming service to pissed of yanks. ROTW gets it on netflix lol


----------



## Crispy (Aug 7, 2018)

Current theory is that this is the long-rumoured "starfleet academy" show. So Picard would be retired from active duty and instead be tutoring the next generation (lol) of officers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2018)

so they're going to make a series out of that episode where picard was trapped in the turbolift with the younglings


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 7, 2018)

cheesethief said:


> Loved First Contact, but the Queen kind of ruined the Borg for me. What made them so genuinely scary in the early days was the notion of an emotionless, relentless force, something that truly could never be reasoned with, bargained with, threatened, something that could never challenged on any psychological level, yet was hugely powerful & intelligent. And crucially something with no centre, no hierarchy, no authority figure that could be singled out. As soon as you introduce a queen you ruin all that, you humanise the thing, you introduce weakness, fallibility, emotion... "We are the Borg" loses its impact. Now it's just another ship of baddies with a captain.



Maybe but Locutus was introduced in only the second Borg story, so he kind of stood out from the collective...


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 7, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Current theory is that this is the long-rumoured "starfleet academy" show. So Picard would be retired from active duty and instead be tutoring the next generation (lol) of officers.



That's a theory, I'd rather see him a traumatised angry old man who's not yet wrestled with all his demons.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 7, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Current theory is that this is the long-rumoured "starfleet academy" show. So Picard would be retired from active duty and instead be tutoring the next generation (lol) of officers.



I doubt it. From what I read they are making a starfleet show seperately.


----------



## cheesethief (Aug 7, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Maybe but Locutus was introduced in only the second Borg story, so he kind of stood out from the collective...


I take your point, but I always felt that Locutus was created _because_ the Borg had no central figure and were a truly distributed entity, so their collective mind reasoned that it was a logical way of interacting with humans. And I also got the distinct impression that the back story of First Contact, wherein the Queen was there all long with Locutus, was decidedly revisionist. I suppose it's just my personal gripe really, I just thought that the original presentation of this unstoppable force, marching relentlessly with the efficiency & utter dispassion of a viral plague but with the cold, calculating intellect of a supercomputer, was novel and genuinely scary. Once there are individual characters, with echoes of humanity, it kinda loses the edge, becomes a bit more humdrum.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 7, 2018)

Jean Luc Picard - One Foot In the Grave

"I don't believe it's warp 9!"


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 7, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Current theory is that this is the long-rumoured "starfleet academy" show. So Picard would be retired from active duty and instead be tutoring the next generation (lol) of officers.


Fuck yeah! Space Grange Hill!

"I only want to teach you Kohlinar Ro Land!"


----------



## cybershot (Aug 7, 2018)

The Borg became pointless in voyager. One lone starship. Travelling through Borg space. Easy. 

Probably be members of the federation in this new series.


----------



## Santino (Aug 7, 2018)

The Borg Queen was a useful narrative device to let you know what the Borg were thinking. She was just an expression of the collective will, not an individual.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 7, 2018)

Santino said:


> The Borg Queen was a useful narrative device to let you know what the Borg were thinking. She was just an expression of the collective will, not an individual.


Well no, it was established that she was the source of that will.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> so they're going to make a series out of that episode where picard was trapped in the turbolift with the younglings



had to re watch 

other highlights include worf delivering kiekos baby and Ensign Ro urging Troi to separate the ship and doom everyone in the engine half.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 7, 2018)

Disaster. Is that like when they sail their spaceship full of schoolchildren into Borg space or the middle of a Klingon blood feud? Someone should tell Offsted


----------



## scifisam (Aug 7, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Voyager has finally offered up some stinkers.
> 
> In an attempt to make Paris interesting, they decided to restage David Cronenberg's the Fly, lost their nerve, turned Paris and Janeway into giant salamanders, made them have babies together, then abandon the babies on a deserted M class planet never to be spoken of again. Callous, perhaps. But best to forget the whole thing.



That's a hilariously bad episode. You keep thinking oh no, they can't really be planning to do that... oh yes they are. It can't get worse, can it? Ohhh.

Everyone involved in it now hates it and it's often removed from rerun schedules


----------



## Balbi (Aug 7, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Current theory is that this is the long-rumoured "starfleet academy" show. So Picard would be retired from active duty and instead be tutoring the next generation (lol) of officers.



Michael Dorn as the P.E teacher


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 7, 2018)

Will data be back mind the lore did get a little daft about how he come back

down loading his mind into beta4 and his emotions chip causing his memory's to take over


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> Will *data* be back mind the *lore *did get a little daft about how he come back
> 
> down loading his mind into beta4 and his emotions chip causing his memory's to take over


Datalore


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 7, 2018)

In yet another take on the Fly, they merged Neelix and Tuvok and a couple of orchids into one person. The technobabble didn't make any sense, but the decision Janeway has to make is quite affecting. 

Not sure what happened with the orchids at the end. They didn't emerge when the distinct Neelix and Tuvok did.


----------



## Santino (Aug 7, 2018)

Janeway murdered Tulix. No debate. Don't @ me.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> In yet another take on the Fly, they merged Neelix and Tuvok and a couple of orchids into one person. The technobabble didn't make any sense, but the decision Janeway has to make is quite affecting.
> 
> Not sure what happened with the orchids at the end. They didn't emerge when the distinct Neelix and Tuvok did.



So...  was my previous comment a spoiler and do you still want to hunt down my family?



on a side note I also think that while the setup is hackneyed bullshit  the response is fascinating  and  the decision definitely adds character to Janeway


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 8, 2018)

Santino said:


> Janeway murdered Tulix. No debate. Don't @ me.


Tuvix bitch have respect for the dead


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 8, 2018)




----------



## cybershot (Aug 8, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> Will data be back mind the lore did get a little daft about how he come back
> 
> down loading his mind into beta4 and his emotions chip causing his memory's to take over



He already did come back, although it’s still unclear if this story is canon. Some say yes, some say no....

Star Trek: Countdown


----------



## cheesethief (Aug 8, 2018)

Santino said:


> The Borg Queen was a useful narrative device to let you know what the Borg were thinking. She was just an expression of the collective will, not an individual.


I disagree, the original premise of the Borg was of an emotionless, dispassionate swarm of cyborgs whose only real purpose was the perpetuation & expansion of their kind. An endless quest for unattainable perfection through assimilation. Just as if a computer program had been given a naively simplistic instruction to follow, but backed up with immense processing power & technological prowess. The Borg Queen expressed emotion, irritation, anger, desire, all sorts of very _human_ traits, which in my opinion made her seem very down to earth, very "normal", and nothing like as scary as the Borg without a Queen. An enemy that you can't reason with, can't bargain with, can't plead for mercy with, can't even interact with in any conventional sense is vastly more alien and more terrifying than one you can.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 8, 2018)

cheesethief said:


> I disagree, the original premise of the Borg was of an emotionless, dispassionate swarm of cyborgs whose only real purpose was the perpetuation & expansion of their kind. An endless quest for unattainable perfection through assimilation. Just as if a computer program had been given a naively simplistic instruction to follow, but backed up with immense processing power & technological prowess. The Borg Queen expressed emotion, irritation, anger, desire, all sorts of very _human_ traits, which in my opinion made her seem very down to earth, very "normal", and nothing like as scary as the Borg without a Queen. An enemy that you can't reason with, can't bargain with, can't plead for mercy with, can't even interact with in any conventional sense is vastly more alien and more terrifying than one you can.



Cybermen rip-off.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 8, 2018)

cheesethief said:


> I disagree, the original premise of the Borg was of an emotionless, dispassionate swarm of cyborgs whose only real purpose was the perpetuation & expansion of their kind. An endless quest for unattainable perfection through assimilation. Just as if a computer program had been given a naively simplistic instruction to follow, but backed up with immense processing power & technological prowess. The Borg Queen expressed emotion, irritation, anger, desire, all sorts of very _human_ traits, which in my opinion made her seem very down to earth, very "normal", and nothing like as scary as the Borg without a Queen. An enemy that you can't reason with, can't bargain with, can't plead for mercy with, can't even interact with in any conventional sense is vastly more alien and more terrifying than one you can.


Precisely. Her existence took the sting out of the Borg.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 8, 2018)

cheesethief said:


> I disagree, the original premise of the Borg was of an emotionless, dispassionate swarm of cyborgs whose only real purpose was the perpetuation & expansion of their kind. An endless quest for unattainable perfection through assimilation. Just as if a computer program had been given a naively simplistic instruction to follow, but backed up with immense processing power & technological prowess. The Borg Queen expressed emotion, irritation, anger, desire, all sorts of very _human_ traits, which in my opinion made her seem very down to earth, very "normal", and nothing like as scary as the Borg without a Queen. An enemy that you can't reason with, can't bargain with, can't plead for mercy with, can't even interact with in any conventional sense is vastly more alien and more terrifying than one you can.



Also the queen was pretty blatantly put in to allow for a bad guy monologue and climactic boss battle, neither of which are tropes good star trek stories resort to.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 8, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also the queen was pretty blatantly put in to allow for a bad guy monologue and climactic boss battle, neither of which are tropes good star trek stories resort to.


Although "to be sexy" is something Star Trek does resort to.


----------



## cheesethief (Aug 8, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also the queen was pretty blatantly put in to allow for a bad guy monologue and climactic boss battle, neither of which are tropes good star trek stories resort to.


Yep, I guess to make it cinematically appealing to a large audience they had to revert to the hackneyed head baddy versus head goody. Can't really have a dramatic final showdown without a singular focus of evil to be defeated just in the nick of time...


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Although "to be sexy" is something Star Trek does resort to.


Borg queen was PG domme tho, which i for one can't recall being seen again except for mirror universe kira.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 8, 2018)

seven of nine chest for the later season on Voyager


----------



## Reno (Aug 8, 2018)

I really tried with Discovery and almost made it to the end, but the last two episodes defeated me. I fell asleep every time I tried to watch the penultimate episode. Eventually I had to admit to myself that I wanted to like it more than I actually liked it. It's not that it was bad, I just think Star Trek isn't for me anymore. There are better shows out there.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 8, 2018)

cheesethief said:


> Yep, I guess to make it cinematically appealing to a large audience they had to revert to the hackneyed head baddy versus head goody. Can't really have a dramatic final showdown without a singular focus of evil to be defeated just in the nick of time...



Firefly had a good way round that - the Reavers were not possible to reason with our persuade in any way, and genuinely a bit horrifying, but there was also a human foe for the final showdown.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 8, 2018)

scifisam said:


> Firefly had a good way round that - the Reavers were not possible to reason with our persuade in any way, and genuinely a bit horrifying, but there was also a human foe for the final showdown.



Watched Serenity again recently, it's still great. Miraculously good really, considering the shoestring budget and the unique constraint of trying to wrap up a cult TV show and make a great standalone movie at the same time.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 8, 2018)

cheesethief said:


> I disagree, the original premise of the Borg was of an emotionless, dispassionate swarm of cyborgs whose only real purpose was the perpetuation & expansion of their kind. An endless quest for unattainable perfection through assimilation. Just as if a computer program had been given a naively simplistic instruction to follow, but backed up with immense processing power & technological prowess. The Borg Queen expressed emotion, irritation, anger, desire, all sorts of very _human_ traits, which in my opinion made her seem very down to earth, very "normal", and nothing like as scary as the Borg without a Queen. An enemy that you can't reason with, can't bargain with, can't plead for mercy with, can't even interact with in any conventional sense is vastly more alien and more terrifying than one you can.


It started with the locutus of borg thing. IMO
What exactly was meant to be the point of that?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 8, 2018)

emanymton said:


> It started with the locutus of borg thing. IMO
> What exactly was meant to be the point of that?


"To communicate with humans". I never understood why humans were any different from any other species they assimilated.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> "To communicate with humans". I never understood why humans were any different from any other species they assimilated.


Exactly it doesn't make any sense. They just thought it would make a better story.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 8, 2018)

Reno said:


> I really tried with Discovery and almost made it to the end, but the last two episodes defeated me. I fell asleep every time I tried to watch the penultimate episode.


You've done well. Three times maybe four i've tried to make it through the pilot.


----------



## cheesethief (Aug 8, 2018)

emanymton said:


> It started with the locutus of borg thing. IMO
> What exactly was meant to be the point of that?


Indeed, made for a good episode but kinda ruined the core premise of the Borg.


----------



## cheesethief (Aug 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> "To communicate with humans". I never understood why humans were any different from any other species they assimilated.


Because if humans were no different the Borg would've steam-rolled over us just as effectively as every other species and the TNG series would've come to an abrupt end...?


----------



## Dandred (Aug 26, 2018)

Series 7 of teh Next Generation is fucking gash, really disappointed. Still, Patric is acting like he really believes every scene!


----------



## Santino (Aug 26, 2018)

Dandred said:


> Still, Patric is acting like he really believes every scene!


That's a little thing we like to call professionalism!


----------



## cybershot (Aug 26, 2018)

I’m revisiting season 7 of deep space nine. A big portion of the middle section of the season is really just filler. Vic Fontaine even in the mirror universe.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 11, 2018)

emanymton said:


> It's shallow but I don't like Jaynway's voice.
> Chacotay, the doctor and latter on Seven are ok. The rest are at best bland at worst actively irritating.


Seven is in it now. She was needed. The interaction between characters was getting stale. She's brought a fresh perspective. It's good to have an alien demeanour to get used to (even though she's human); the species we visit are all too human in their interactions and world views. We know about Vulcans now, so it's good to add a new outlook. The fact that she's blunt, doesn't understand social conventions, and that people find her unsettling are all good for the mix. It's brought life back into the show. She's my favourite character now. Second favourite is the Doctor. Similar reasons.

(Not sure exactly why she needs such a tight uniform, though. Surely a standard uniform would have covered her Borg implants just fine? The Doctor said he designed it. It may seem churlish to complain, but I can't see any actual narrative reason for it).


----------



## Reno (Sep 11, 2018)

In less woke times they always stuffed the designated Star Trek babe/s into a spandex suit or (earlier) a mini dress with no rationale given. The only exception back then was Deep Space Nine, which granted Dax the dignity of a uniform.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 11, 2018)

When I said "I'm not sure why she needs such a tight uniform", I actually knew very well. What I should have said was "the 90s don't seem that long ago, and yet sometimes they do".


----------



## kabbes (Sep 11, 2018)

To be fair, I remember it being somewhat remarked upon at the time too.


----------



## Reno (Sep 11, 2018)

I remember it being brought up with Troi. Tight spandex must have been the Betazoid traditional costume.


----------



## Santino (Sep 11, 2018)

I seem to recall reading that Jeri Ryan actually wore padding to accentuate her figure.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 11, 2018)

Santino said:


> I seem to recall reading that Jeri Ryan actually wore padding to accentuate her figure.



Yeah well nobody really looks like that do they?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 11, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah well nobody really looks like that do they?



Just had to do a Google image search to refute these claims.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 11, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> Just had to do a Google image search to refute these claims.



What you do in private mate, best kept private.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 11, 2018)

Still wading my way through the last season of DS9. It's a tough re-watch to be honest. Seasons 5 and 6 were so strong, and Season 7 just seems to go full on Vic Fontaine.

Edging closer to the final 10 eps thou, where the story arc for the finish finally gets going.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 11, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Still wading my way through the last season of DS9. It's a tough re-watch to be honest. Seasons 5 and 6 were so strong, and Season 7 just seems to go full on Vic Fontaine.
> 
> Edging closer to the final 10 eps thou, where the story arc for the finish finally gets going.


Too much of the finish relies on the religion and related fantasy. That's one of the factors that lost me.


----------



## Santino (Sep 11, 2018)

Remember when Sisko had to explain linear time to the wormhole aliens, and then they understood it _after_ he had told them? They were just taking the piss.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Seven is in it now. She was needed. The interaction between characters was getting stale. She's brought a fresh perspective. It's good to have an alien demeanour to get used to (even though she's human); the species we visit are all too human in their interactions and world views. We know about Vulcans now, so it's good to add a new outlook. The fact that she's blunt, doesn't understand social conventions, and that people find her unsettling are all good for the mix. It's brought life back into the show. She's my favourite character now. Second favourite is the Doctor. Similar reasons.
> 
> (Not sure exactly why she needs such a tight uniform, though. Surely a standard uniform would have covered her Borg implants just fine? The Doctor said he designed it. It may seem churlish to complain, but I can't see any actual narrative reason for it).



C





> o-star Ethan Phillips says those tight costumes make working with Ryan a little "complicated." Ryan says, "For the first costume, if I would do anything other than have my head straight ahead, it cut off my carotid artery. It was so tight that I passed out four times," says Ryan, interviewed on the Voyager set in a new costume that she says is looser but still takes an hour to climb into. The old suit forced her to lie down between scenes to regain her composure. But she didn't complain. "That was my nice Midwestern girl upbringing," she says. "They would bring nurses to the set with oxygen, and I wouldn't say anything. But after the fourth time passing out, I spoke up." Producers quickly refitted the suit. But the new costume has problems of its own. "Forget vanity, throw vanity to the wind! And you can forget anything about privacy, because it ain't gonna happen. Anytime I have to go to the bathroom, everybody has to know about it. It's announced over the P.A. system, because production stops for a half-hour. 'We can't roll a shot. Jeri's not here.' 'Why not, where's Jeri?' 'Jeri has to go 10-100.' It's just a whole procedure." And now to confuse matters even more there is a third costume which premiered in "The Raven."



Jeri Ryan


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 12, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> C
> 
> Jeri Ryan


The first costume, then - the one that made her pass out - was the still-Borg bodysuit, the second costume the silver one with quilted six pack, and the third one, premièred in the Raven, the brownish one I'm seeing her wear in episodes I'm now up to?

I feel I know much more about this series of costume changes than anyone else's in the franchise.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The first costume, then - the one that made her pass out - was the still-Borg bodysuit, the second costume the silver one with quilted six pack, and the third one, premièred in the Raven, the brownish one I'm seeing her wear in episodes I'm now up to?
> 
> I feel I know much more about this series of costume changes than anyone else's in the franchise.


Yeah, that's right. The Raven was the episode where she found her old ship iirc.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 12, 2018)

There was a lot in the news (Star Trek monthly) about it at the time.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 12, 2018)

Amazing that they could design a costume so restrictive they had to have nurses on hand with oxygen  Characters who have to wear face and body paints tend to suffer (it's why Zhaan left Farscape) but at least it's for better reasons than slightly more sex appeal.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 12, 2018)




----------



## Santino (Sep 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The first costume, then - the one that made her pass out - was the still-Borg bodysuit, the second costume the silver one with quilted six pack, and the third one, premièred in the Raven, the brownish one I'm seeing her wear in episodes I'm now up to?
> 
> I feel I know much more about this series of costume changes than anyone else's in the franchise.


I think Patrick Stewart got his uniform changed because the first one was causing him musculo-skeletal problems. That's why there's a switch from onesies to tracksuit bottoms and a jumper.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 12, 2018)

Santino said:


> I think Patrick Stewart got his uniform changed because the first one was causing him musculo-skeletal problems. That's why there's a switch from onesies to tracksuit bottoms and a jumper.


You wouldn't think costume designers would be creating things that caused medical problems!


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 12, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


>



Good god, I only gave that a few seconds but I want them back!

I don't even care what it's about.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Sep 13, 2018)

If anyone is home the Horror+1 channel is currently  showing ST:TOS "The Way to Eden".

Kirk v. Hippies. It's so bad it's good!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 13, 2018)

Santino said:


> I think Patrick Stewart got his uniform changed because the first one was causing him musculo-skeletal problems. That's why there's a switch from onesies to tracksuit bottoms and a jumper.



LeVar Burton also struggled a lot with his visor.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Good god, I only gave that a few seconds but I want them back!
> 
> I don't even care what it's about.



Good for you.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2018)

QueenOfGoths said:


> If anyone is home the Horror+1 channel is currently  showing ST:TOS "The Way to Eden".
> 
> Kirk v. Hippies. It's so bad it's good!



I'm currently on a re-watch of the original series, and watched that one the other day. IMHO, the worst episode of all the original series.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2018)

But I did enjoy it for that reason!


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 13, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Good for you.


Did you really think it was watchable and that other people would want to watch it?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Did you really think it was watchable and that other people would want to watch it?



Yes and no.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Did you really think it was watchable and that other people would want to watch it?


I watch redlettermedia pretty much whenever they put out something new. I don't like everything about how they do it, but they always make some really good points. I'm not into star trek but found this interesting and so yes, I did think that if someone was into star trek they would find it potentially far more interesting than me. As you mentioned in your post, you didn't make it past the intro so if you are only talking about the first few seconds, I'm not sure there is much to discuss.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 13, 2018)

Fair enough.

The vlogging age really isn't for me. I should probably just keep quite about it though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 13, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> I'm currently on a re-watch of the original series, and watched that one the other day. IMHO, the worst episode of all the original series.


Worse than Spock's Brain?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> The vlogging age really isn't for me. I should probably just keep quite about it though.



Their reviews are extremely popular. They make a decent living off it. This one was a bit more nerdy. 
They make some great insightful points even if the style isn't great. It's the Plinket film reviews of Star trek and star wars that really got them started. I just wish they would lay off the 'funnies' a bit.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 13, 2018)

I agree.  Excellent film reviews marred by an irritating presentation.  But the review is worth the irritation.  The Plinkett analysis of Last Jedi’s failings is particularly insightful.

“You may not have noticed it.  But your brain did.”


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 13, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Their reviews are extremely popular. They make a decent living off it.


Good luck to them. And I know: lots of YouTubers are very successful. I can't bear to watch any of them though. Which probably puts me in a minority.

Do these guys do written reviews?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Good luck to them. And I know: lots of YouTubers are very successful. I can't bear to watch any of them though. Which probably puts me in a minority.
> 
> Do these guys do written reviews?


Not that I am aware of. . . but the plinket reviews are obviously written and then just pictured up with footage. HOWEVER, annoyingly they do try to hang a pointless and annoying Mr Plinket backstory along the way. Ruins it a bit in my opinion, but the rest of the content is so good I can skim over it. I can understand why the reviews of them just talking to each other about films can be more of an acquired taste. I don't do any other podcasts/vlogs.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 14, 2018)

Struggling with DS9, s1 15 so far, not very good is it?


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 14, 2018)

Dandred said:


> Struggling with DS9, s1 15 so far, not very good is it?


No, it isn't. There are good episodes, but I don't think you'll have seen any of those yet.


----------



## Reno (Sep 14, 2018)

All the three first Star Trek spin-offs struggled for the first two seasons. Like TNG and Voyager, DS9 doesn’t really get good till season 3.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 14, 2018)

Reno said:


> All the three first Star Trek spin-offs struggled for the first two seasons. Like TNG and Voyager, DS9 doesn’t really get good till season 3.


I disagree about Voyager: I liked it straight away, and thought it was season 3 it started to flag. Season 4 was given new life by Seven of Nine, who is now my favourite non-TOS character. 

DS9 does pick up around season 3, but remains patchy and trails off again. The Dominion stuff is only good for the build up. Once the Dominion become established, they're rubbish. 

DS9 has some decent stand-alone episodes. The one with the Tribbles, for example. And were it not for O'Brien, I'm not sure I'd have kept watching to find them.

I'll rank my Trek spin offs once I've seen them all, but so far DS9 is at the bottom.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 14, 2018)

DS9 is at the top!

Let's do this...

1. DS9
2. TNG
3. TOS
4. STV
5. STD lol
6. STE


----------



## Reno (Sep 14, 2018)

DS9 was always my favourite. Voyager only really got interesting for me once they introduced Seven of Nine. Picard was my favourite captain, but apart from Data I didn’t care for the rest of the cast of TNG. DS9 has my favourite crew overall. With Voyager it was all about Janeway and Seven of Nine for me. Of course all had great individual episodes, even from the first season on, but everything only really fell into place after two rocky early seasons for all of them.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 14, 2018)

1. TNG
2. DS9
3. VOY
4. ENT
5. DISCO
6. TOS

Rank pretty much all the TOS films bar 1 & 5 above the TNG films however.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 14, 2018)

Ok, so far:

1. TOS
2. VOY
3. TNG
4. TAS
5. DS9

All of the TOS films are better than those of the TNG ones I've seen. (Although Star Trek: the Motion Picture  has very little of 'motion' about its story, and can be safely ignored).


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 14, 2018)

TNG
DS9
Voyager
TOS
STD
STE

I never watched the cartoon TOS so I leave it unrated


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 14, 2018)

Poll!

Star Trek: The Best One?


----------



## Reno (Sep 14, 2018)

I have to add that I tried to rewatch both TOS and TNG and failed at both. Their HD restaurations are glorious but they haven’t aged well when compared to today’s TV series. The pace is sluggish, the production values are low and they are mostly confined to the same, claustrophobic sets. I just seem to lack that nostalgic gene which makes me watch them with the mindset I had back then. I don’t feel like that about films but I don’t have the time for 8 seasons of 24 episodes each.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 14, 2018)

Should I skip to season 3 or tough it out?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 14, 2018)

Having rewatched most of DS9 there's a lot more fat on it than I remember, and whilst I admire what it attempted to do it failed more often than it succeeded. Ergo:

1 TNG
2 DS9
3 Voyager
4 TOS
5 Discovery
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
68,312 Enterprise

Discovery redeemed itself in the second half of the series for me, when it stopped doing easter eggs and started doing proper plot development instead.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 14, 2018)

Dandred said:


> Should I skip to season 3 or tough it out?



There's probably some that need to be watched for continuation  purposes, this list should help:
Deep Space Nine Episode Guide


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 14, 2018)

Reno said:


> . Their HD restaurations are glorious but they haven’t aged well when compared to today’s TV series. The pace is sluggish, the production values are low and they are mostly confined to the same, claustrophobic sets.


I can understand that: you do have to be ready to accept a completely different pace and so on. But one of the ways that TOS is much better than TNG onwards is the way character interplay is written. From TNG on there is far too much tell and not enough show. The way we find out a character fancies another is that someone says to them "oh come on, I can see the way you look at him/her". Well, how about just letting us see that?

The ratio of telling and showing is slightly better in Voyager. We do get to see Harry squirm and blush in Seven's presence (and his dream when she says "resistance is futile" before kissing him is a gem), but there's still a lot more "you fancy Seven" than just showing us him fancying Seven. It's a real weakness of all the franchises so far, and something TOS just knew not to do.

We do see Spock saying in the films "you are my friend", but this is long after the viewer already knows, and it's done as a touching Vulcan gauchness. A character thing in itself, rather than dialogue exposition.

Trek is always best when character leads plot. When the actor is up to it. The O'Brien vehicles in DS9 are great. The Sisko ones are terrible. Except the ones where Jake is lead, like the one where he is a writer on Earth (no spoilers).


----------



## Chz (Sep 14, 2018)

More to the point, TOS hits the ground running whereas the first couple of TNG series are near-unwatchable for most of the episodes.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 14, 2018)

Chz said:


> More to the point, TOS hits the ground running whereas the first couple of TNG series are near-unwatchable for most of the episodes.


TNG was a very 90s show, just as the X Files was (though the two series are very different, though). Those first two seasons are from the late 80s, though, aren't they?


----------



## Reno (Sep 15, 2018)

Chz said:


> More to the point, TOS hits the ground running whereas the first couple of TNG series are near-unwatchable for most of the episodes.


As it only consisted of three seasons TOS wouldn't be remembered as the classic it is, had it only gotten its shit together by season three (which is the weak one of that series).


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 15, 2018)

DS9 was so bad that Babylon 5 managed to outdo it in every way.


----------



## strung out (Sep 15, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> DS9 was so bad that Babylon 5 managed to outdo it in every way.


Incorrect


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 15, 2018)

Not in the least. Apart from the 'cheapness' of the production, B5 is far superior.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 15, 2018)

TOS - Easy fav
TAS - Super Watchable -  The good bit are great  the bad bit are at least funny
I find it really difficult to separate TNG, DS9 & VOY they feel very samy to me  
I find TNG very watchable  but often a little twee and 80's progressive. DS9 just bored the shit out of me the first time around  but on reflection had some intresting things to say. VOY got me back into trek but was a little hit or miss. 
ENT - Some intresting bits but  it just felt off.  almost like a trek parody.

DISCO - not finished watching it yet as I promised to watch it all with a fellow trekkie  and we haven't managed to  meet up a lot to watch it.  So far it's fighting it out with the series in the big Berman moshpit


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 15, 2018)

JMS master plan for B5 was to tell his story over 5 seasons, when they pulled the plug at season 4 he condensed the last 2 into 1 and then when they extended the contract again he was left fishing for stuff to put
into Season 5 which is why S5 isn't as good as the rest (though it's still pretty good), S1-S4 set the standard against which all subsequent TV scifi should be measured.
It was made in the mid-90's when CGI technology was in its infancy.
It's like the Day the Earth Stood Still, the 2008 film looked a lot more 'real' than the 1951 one but the earlier one is a vastly superior movie in all the ways that matter.


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 15, 2018)

Essential to mention B5 in this context too, because DS9's production began _after _B5's, but the ST production budget was indeed way bigger than B5's. So though B5 was started first, DS9 _aired _first, and obviously they ran together for some time. It _looked _like B5 was a cheap rip off, but if anything DS9 was the rip off.

And then there's the Main Story arc that B5 has, that was never a feature of ST till _Voyager_.

Anyway, in Star Trek terms B5 pretty much outdoes everything except TOS, which was as groundbreaking in its own way as B5 was in _its _own way (and DS9 wasn't) - and TNG, which to my eyes was quite an influence on B5 anyway.

EtA, to mess things up a bit more, _Farscape _> Voyager and DS9 and Enterprise too


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2018)

It was the year everything changed. The year is 2261. The place: Babylon 5.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 15, 2018)

I could never get into b5.

Moment to moment it was fine but due to scheduling I missed bunches of it so could never keep up with the meta narrative.

Plus it felt a bit like Greek theatre where you had characters come on and talk a lot about Important battles and events but you never actually saw them.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 15, 2018)

I need to rewatch B5. Londo and G'Kar would make it worth it even if the rest were shit.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 16, 2018)

I remember watching crusade and getting tonal whiplash.

I seem to remember kinda liking it though. Only saw a few eps due to it's sceduling.


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 16, 2018)

There are some pretty epic battles too tbf, but not in every episode. Though at least one big B5 battle goes across at least two episodes, and the final war fills most of season 4 iirc.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 16, 2018)

TOS?


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 16, 2018)

Dandred said:


> TOS?


TOS = *T*he *O*riginal *S*eries
TAS = The Animated Series
TNG = The Next Generation
DS9 = Deep Space Nine
VOY = Voyager
ENT = Enterprise
DISCO = Discovery


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2018)

Babylon 5 was ok, I ended up watching it long after trek tho. Linked minbarii caste system being a benign one, some good ships etc.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 16, 2018)

Also

II
VI (possibly controversial but a personal favorite [might even have been the first one I saw in cinema])
IV
III / Beyond / FC (I find it hard to order these. One from each series too.)
I  (Right on the good bad threshold)
V (At least its bad is funny bad)
Gen / ST:09 (When aging actors from from other series are the best bits)
Ins
ID - Nem


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 17, 2018)

We watched Star Trek Beyond today and it was average, compared to the previous 2 instalments. It felt a bit like a two-parter from the series than an event movie. Karl Urban's the best thing about it, I reckons.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 17, 2018)

As much as I agree Karl Urban is the best I feel that the getting back to having a good fun baseline was what saved the movie. The other two tried  to hard to be bigger and more epic than before and felt weaker for it in my opinion.  Particularly into darkness.
Turns wrath of Khan into annoyance of cumberbatch.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 17, 2018)

I've done far worse than kill you. I've bored you. And I wish to go on... boring you. I shall leave you as you left me, as you left her. Marooned for all eternity, in the center of a dead movie... buried alive. Buried alive.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 17, 2018)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> As much as I agree Karl Urban is the best I feel that the getting back to having a good fun baseline was what saved the movie. The other two tried  to hard to be bigger and more epic than before and felt weaker for it in my opinion.  Particularly into darkness.
> Turns wrath of Khan into annoyance of cumberbatch.



Hmm. On the plus side, Beyond has PE's "Fight the Power" in it but loses a point for including "Sabotage" (again) and Kirk smirking along to it. But is instantly redeemed with the "skip to the end" Pegg-scripted comment.

Not sure how I felt about the Enterprise crashing. We already got that in the original 3rd film and Generations (iirc). I'm trying to work out what element the next instalment can borrow from _The Voyage Home_...


----------



## cybershot (Sep 17, 2018)

Got this over email. 

If anyone wants to 'work' Destination Star Trek at the NEC in Birmingham, send am email to the address in the picture below.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 17, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Hmm. On the plus side, Beyond has PE's "Fight the Power" in it but loses a point for including "Sabotage" (again) and Kirk smirking along to it. But is instantly redeemed with the "skip to the end" Pegg-scripted comment.



For me that broke through the stupid barrier and looped back to kinda cool.

Objectively dumb but Kirk has been known to destroy computers with the power of charisma alone.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 17, 2018)

Also probably help by the fact sabotage is my favourite beastie boys track.

The should have played intergalactic and have the space time continuum collapse during the line referencing Spock.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2018)

There’s been some great episodes. But I’ve come to moan about another stinker: VOY S6: E23 “Fury”.

It doesn’t make any sense. Not internally as a story. Not continuity wise as a part of 6 years of stories, and not character wise. There is no logic to any of it. No emotional truth, no believable motivation, no believable resolution. It’s a bunch of special effects looking for a justification and deciding it can’t be bothered finding any. 

Just skip it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2018)

I’m watching Deanna Troi’s second guest appearance. I meant to remark last time: she’s forgotten how to do the accent she created.

(When I first heard it in TNG I thought she was deaf. But I came to realise she was trying to create an accent from a distant planet centuries in the future. Until her mother doesn’t have it too, when it becomes something she inherited from her late human father. Weirdly). 

Anyway she’s stopped doing it.


----------



## KeeperofDragons (Oct 12, 2018)

scifisam said:


> I need to rewatch B5. Londo and G'Kar would make it worth it even if the rest were shit.


Don't forget Garibaldi


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 15, 2018)

Watched VOY S7: E7 "Body and Soul" last night.  It was a flawed episode, but I loved Ryan's performance: Seven's cranial implant (or something) was "hosting" the Doctor.  Seven took on the Doctor's mannerisms and manner of speech perfectly.  It was a tour de force.  

The story itself had elements that have dated, thankfully.  But for the featured role for Seven' alone it could well be one of my favourite Trek outings.  A comedic performance with exactly the right lightness of touch.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2018)

Finished Voyager last night.  It was the best finale of any Trek series by 70,000 light years. TOS’s last episode was one of its worst; TNG’s finale was terrible; and DS9’s finale was one of the worst Trek episodes ever made. 

VOY’s double episode finale, on the other hand, was worthy of cinematic release. An absolute treat, cementing the place of VOY as one of the best Trek series, if not the best.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2018)

Not that the episode was perfect. I was convinced they were going to kill off Seven in the final leap to the Alpha quadrant. They seemed to be setting that up all the way along, but then at the end chickened out. Having set the ground work, they should have followed through. 

But that - and the long standing objection to the Borg having a Queen at all - aside, it was a great episode, to contrast with the disasters previous Trek series had ended on.


----------



## maomao (Oct 23, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m watching Deanna Troi’s second guest appearance. I meant to remark last time: she’s forgotten how to do the accent she created.



I have a friend whose mum is of the same ethnic background, from the same part of London and about the same age as Marina Sirtis and she sounds very similar. Could have been all the time living and working in the US that changed it?


----------



## Poi E (Oct 23, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Finished Voyager last night.  It was the best finale of any Trek series by 70,000 light years. TOS’s last episode was one of its worst; TNG’s finale was terrible; and DS9’s finale was one of the worst Trek episodes ever made.
> 
> VOY’s double episode finale, on the other hand, was worthy of cinematic release. An absolute treat, cementing the place of VOY as one of the best Trek series, if not the best.



After the umpteenth re-watching of Voyager my wife and I are firm fans over any of its contemporaries. If I had to be on one ship it would be Voyager 

And yeah, I saw the episode you refer to the other day and Jeri Ryan nailed it.


----------



## donkyboy (Oct 23, 2018)

voyager sticks in my mind for one thing. after 9/11 happened, the BBC changed the scheduled episode of voyager and showed a repeat of the episode which involved the holodeck as it didn't have any violence in it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 24, 2018)

Started Enterprise. 

Bad: 

- instead of a theme tune it's a cheesy power ballad!  I don't think I can overlook this.

- the animosity with the Vulcans.  I get dramatic tension, but why create it by making Vulcans into patronising bureaucrats?  Vulcans are Zen, spiritual and a bit autistic.  Not bossy jobsworths.

- they put an alien slug on a different planet.  Surely introducing invasive species isn't something we'll still be doing in (whenever this is?)

Good:

- the cameo by Zephram Cochrane (version 2).

- there's a dog on the ship.

- they're afraid of transporters for people.

- translation is a problem.

Not sure yet:

- it's all a bit 80s looking.   I don't want the future to look like the 80s.

- the vibe. 

- some of the technology looks more advanced than TOS.  It shouldn't be.


----------



## Santino (Oct 24, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Started Enterprise.
> 
> Bad:
> 
> ...


Remember those Vulcan cunts in Deep Space Nine?


----------



## Santino (Oct 24, 2018)

But otherwise yes, Enterprise is shit.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 24, 2018)

Santino said:


> Remember those Vulcan cunts in Deep Space Nine?


No, I don't.  I remember Romulans though.


----------



## strung out (Oct 24, 2018)

Wankers







Plus the vulcans who stole Nog's homework back in season 1 of course


----------



## Santino (Oct 25, 2018)

Yeah, they researched and practiced an archaic human sport, JUST TO ANNOY Sisko.

That's good though. It's more fun when you remember the Vulcan philosophy of logic is only there to stop them murdering each other because deep down they're all solid gold cunts.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 25, 2018)

Santino said:


> Yeah, they researched and practiced an archaic human sport, JUST TO ANNOY Sisko.


I thought that was fine. He was a bit of a dick.

Anyway, I tend to do other things when a programme I like has a sports episode. Like read my phone or a book, or make tea.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2018)

I’m not sure how long I can tolerate ENT. While the episodes themselves have been actually mostly better so far than the first season of DS9, what drove me on with DS9 was the promise of better to come (there was, but not as much as I’d been led to believe, and not always in the places I’d been told I’d find it). With ENT, however, everyone agrees that won’t happen.

So I’m going to find it hard to overlook the things I find irritating: the attitude of the crew. They’re arrogent, bigoted, Earth-chauvinist, twats. I don’t side with them in fights.

As for the politics. I don’t care about the niggle match between them and the Vulcans.

It all feels like they’re just fucking around with canon. I know it’s a prequel. But ultimately I’m finding it nearly as hard to care about as the mirror universe in DS9. 

And the theme song is unforgivable.


----------



## Signal 11 (Oct 27, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> With ENT, however, everyone agrees that [better to come] won’t happen.


They don't e.g. here: "seemed to flounder up until Season 3 which was good, Season 4 was great", and here: "I'd second that comment about the last season (I'd argue last 2 seasons) of Enterprise being good".

I'd remembered the first two seasons being a bit slow but I'm rewatching them on horror channel and they've been better than I remembered (nearly at the end of season 2 now). Really enjoyed 3 and 4 the first time and looking forward to seeing them again.

Having said that you're obviously less tolerant of shit sci-fi than me judging by this thread. It's been interesting reading about all the flaws I missed.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 27, 2018)

Stick with it. It gets good.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 27, 2018)

Signal 11 said:


> They don't e.g. here: "seemed to flounder up until Season 3 which was good, Season 4 was great", and here: "I'd second that comment about the last season (I'd argue last 2 seasons) of Enterprise being good".


It’s telling that in order to find a second favourable quote you had to use a poster who left _years_ ago!


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 27, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Stick with it. It gets good.


I’ll see. But for the first time ever I’m using “skip intro”. (I likes intros. They set the feel. Except the feel this one sets is of a Michael Bolton video).


----------



## maomao (Oct 27, 2018)

It's the best theme tune because it's the only one you can make up rude words to.

And the earth chauvinism is deliberate and there is some development on that front. Not as much as there could have been due to cancellation. 

There are two big story arcs I remember from series 3 and 4. One of which is very good and one which is a little dull.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 27, 2018)

maomao said:


> And the earth chauvinism is deliberate


Yes, I guessed that. What with scriptwriters and all being involved.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 27, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ll see. But for the first time ever I’m using “skip intro”. (I likes intros. They set the feel. Except the feel this one sets is of a Michael Bolton video).



You’ll be singing along before you know it. Also the intro takes a turn during a certain story arc and turns dark for several episodes! You wouldn’t want to miss that


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 27, 2018)

cybershot said:


> You’ll be singing along before you know it. Also the intro takes a turn during a certain story arc and turns dark for several episodes! You wouldn’t want to miss that


Just watched an episode called “Civilisation”. I liked that.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 28, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m not sure how long I can tolerate ENT. While the episodes themselves have been actually mostly better so far than the first season of DS9, what drove me on with DS9 was the promise of better to come (there was, but not as much as I’d been led to believe, and not always in the places I’d been told I’d find it). With ENT, however, everyone agrees that won’t happen.
> 
> So I’m going to find it hard to overlook the things I find irritating: the attitude of the crew. They’re arrogent, bigoted, Earth-chauvinist, twats. I don’t side with them in fights.
> 
> ...



It's not as bad as it's made out to be (apart from said theme tune, obvs). The final season is the best but I'll be very interested to read what you think of the finale...


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 28, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> I'll be very interested to read what you think of the finale...


My sister said something similar. (The elder of my two younger sisters. The younger didn’t make it that far herself).


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 28, 2018)

In ENT they say “away team”. This is wrong. In TOS they said “landing party”. It wasn’t until TNG that “away team” was used.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 28, 2018)

maomao said:


> It's the best theme tune because it's the only one you can make up rude words to.


I had it in my fucking head all day yesterday. I started the morning with it today. “No”, I told myself “we can’t have this two days running”.

So what did I replace it with?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 28, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> In ENT they say “away team”. This is wrong. In TOS they said “landing party”. It wasn’t until TNG that “away team” was used.


Also. Replicated food in TOS:







Colourful cubes. Including blue.

But in ENT, the replicated food (supplemented by hydroponics-grown crops) is far more “realistic” looking.

Technology needs to advance, surely?


----------



## cybershot (Oct 28, 2018)

You just have to get over stuff like that. I assume you haven’t watched discovery yet?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 28, 2018)

cybershot said:


> You just have to get over stuff like that. I assume you haven’t watched discovery yet?


No. The plan was to watch it all in order. So DISCO is next.


----------



## Poi E (Oct 31, 2018)

Stick with Enterprise. Some good stuff in there with time lines etc. And some utter crap.

"Admiral" Archer's beagle got referenced in ST (2009), so Enterprise wasn't a complete blot on ST canon.


----------



## Poi E (Oct 31, 2018)

And Discovery. Didn't like it watching it old school week-by-week. Just sat through the whole thing back-to-back and fucking loved it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2018)

I liked discovery but as with the new films it feels to me like the idea was 'lets do star trek but not'. Even fede3ration still felt tonally like trek even if I didn't rate it much, the new films though.. Just go fuck yourselves with that. Star trek for the spawn of the beavis and butthead generation


----------



## Poi E (Nov 1, 2018)

In the words of Sulu: "I'm delighted; any chance to go aboard Enterprise."


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 1, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I liked discovery but as with the new films it feels to me like the idea was 'lets do star trek but not'. Even fede3ration still felt tonally like trek even if I didn't rate it much, the new films though.. Just go fuck yourselves with that. Star trek for the spawn of the beavis and butthead generation


The first of the new films was good, the second one could have just been any buddy action film set anywhere.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 1, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> The first of the new films was good, the second one could have just been any buddy action film set anywhere.


The third was almost a Star Trek film.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2018)

I’m actually enjoying Enterprise now. Some of the niggles have subsided. The anti Vulcan antipathy is not being laboured now, and Archer is even sympathetic with their position having seen for himself the need for “I don’t know, some sort of non interference, em, I want to say ‘directive’”. 

There have been some cracking stories. In that regard, so far season one of ENT is far superior to DS9’s first season. 

A couple of very silly scenes have had cast members (both male and female, in all fairness) strip down to their underwear on the flimsiest of pretences. After the action of Sleeping Dogs was concluded, for example, the episode ended with a sudden cut to a scene that saw the away team stripped to underpants and (in the women’s case) vests in a “detoxification shower”, with no set up, no narrative justification, and for what seemed an inordinate amount of time. This is not the first such scene.


----------



## maomao (Nov 1, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> A couple of very silly scenes have had cast members (both male and female, in all fairness) strip down to their underwear on the flimsiest of pretences. After the action of Sleeping Dogs was concluded, for example, the episode ended with a sudden cut to a scene that saw the away team stripped to underpants and (in the women’s case) vests in a “detoxification shower”, with no set up, no narrative justification, and for what seemed an inordinate amount of time. This is not the first such scene.


They need detoxification showers because they're not using the transporter which can filter all the shit out. Which is far more justification than there ever was for Troi's catsuit or Uhura's miniskirt.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2018)

maomao said:


> Which is far more justification than there ever was for [...] Uhura's miniskirt.


You say that, but trousers would have got in the way of her headset.


----------



## maomao (Nov 1, 2018)

Did they do the uncomfortable shower with Archer and T'pol yet? I remember that being vaguely amusing. Personally I never would have bought it as a gritty back to basics prequel if I hadn't seen Yoshi in her knickers.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 1, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> The third was almost a Star Trek film.


That was the one I meant, I had scrubbed the second one from my brain it was that bad, just lifted stuff from older films.


----------



## Poi E (Nov 1, 2018)

I liked the first and third one. Second one with the Khan stuff was just OTT fan fiction crap. And now I can say I went to school with Bones


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2018)

maomao said:


> Did they do the uncomfortable shower with Archer and T'pol yet?


No, I’ve not seen that yet. The last episode I saw did have them kidnapped and tied together though. And in the writhing they did to get untied his face ended up between her boobs. I’m not sure if it was meant as comedy, but it was awkward.

The episode was otherwise pretty good, and I imagine setting up the dynamics needed for the Federation to be established.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2018)

One of the main problems that I have with putting a series between our time and TOS’s time is that it collapses intervening technological advancement.

Somebody had better be working on warp drive. There’s only 45 years to get it capable of safely carrying a crew of 3. That’s not long in R&D terms. Then 90 years later we need ships capable of warp 5, with naecelles and replicators, with warp cores running on antimatter, carrying crew of 140. 

It’s not long.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2018)

It’s cool, someone is on it.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/5963263/how-nasa-will-build-its-very-first-warp-drive


----------



## Santino (Nov 2, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> One of the main problems that I have with putting a series between our time and TOS’s time is that it collapses intervening technological advancement.
> 
> Somebody had better be working on warp drive. There’s only 45 years to get it capable of safely carrying a crew of 3. That’s not long in R&D terms. Then 90 years later we need ships capable of warp 5, with naecelles and replicators, with warp cores running on antimatter, carrying crew of 140.
> 
> It’s not long.


If you remember from Star Trek: First Contact, I don't think the inventor of warp drive was a stickler for the usual R&D timetable. For example, I bet he failed to fill out even the most basic risk assessment form.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2018)

Santino said:


> If you remember from Star Trek: First Contact, I don't think the inventor of warp drive was a stickler for the usual R&D timetable. For example, I bet he failed to fill out even the most basic risk assessment form.


Drunk in charge of antimatter, too. Blaring out Steppenwolf when he should have been listening to sensor arrays.


----------



## Santino (Nov 2, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Drunk in charge of antimatter, too. Blaring out Steppenwolf when he should have been listening to sensor arrays.


Doesn't classical music help one to concentrate though?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2018)

Although, early technology is usually a bit seat-of-the-pants. When you realise that Apollo 11 used handheld sextants for when they needed to do manual course adjustments!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2018)

The TOS Zephram Cochrane was far more All American Astronaut than First Contact’s Mad Max Hillbilly. Probably Harold White (see article above) is somewhere in between.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 2, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The TOS Zephram Cochrane was far more All American Astronaut than First Contact’s Mad Max Hillbilly. Probably Harold White (see article above) is somewhere in between.


All american and from alpha centauri.....


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 2, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> One of the main problems that I have with putting a series between our time and TOS’s time is that it collapses intervening technological advancement.
> 
> Somebody had better be working on warp drive. There’s only 45 years to get it capable of safely carrying a crew of 3. That’s not long in R&D terms. Then 90 years later we need ships capable of warp 5, with naecelles and replicators, with warp cores running on antimatter, carrying crew of 140.
> 
> It’s not long.



Well there is no doubt progress on space travel was delayed due to that eugenics war we had back in the early 90's


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2018)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Well there is no doubt progress on space travel was delayed due to that eugenics war we had back in the early 90's


Although the main culprits vanished. Remember? It was around the time all those cryogenic spaceships went missing.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 2, 2018)

1996. dolly the sheep, the docklands bombing, tamagotchi & the overthrow of the prince of tyrants...


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2018)

So there was I thinking “great: finally a Trek series that can’t have Q or Ferengi, because neither is known to Star Fleet before Picard”.  Safe in this knowledge I start up next episode, entitled “Acquisition”, but I’m still not worried. When who turns up but the Ferengi? 

Please tell me Q doesn’t make an appearance!

So they’re in a Quadrant accessible from Earth by a warp 5 capable vessel, but they’re not encountered by the Federation until Picard’s time? My arse.

(I suppose I’ll have to watch on to build up more righterous continuity rage).


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 2, 2018)

No Q but we do get Trelane (I wish)


----------



## cybershot (Nov 3, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> So there was I thinking “great: finally a Trek series that can’t have Q or Ferengi, because neither is known to Star Fleet before Picard”.  Safe in this knowledge I start up next episode, entitled “Acquisition”, but I’m still not worried. When who turns up but the Ferengi?
> 
> Please tell me Q doesn’t make an appearance!
> 
> ...



If I recall the Ferengi episode was actually quite enjoyable.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 3, 2018)

cybershot said:


> If I recall the Ferengi episode was actually quite enjoyable.


To be fair, in the end it was. And they got round the continuity by having almost everyone from Star Fleet unconscious for most of it, and the identity of the “aliens” never revealed.

It’s still amazing that the Ferengi are at large for this encounter in 2150, with a Star Fleet crew who are 6 months away from Earth in a warp 5 vessel (that hasn’t been flying in a straight line), and yet no conscious contact is made with the Ferengi until 2364. Despite them being traders. Despite the Federation being by then well established.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2018)

52nd anniversary of Dagger of the Mind   (classic TOS) episode "Dagger" Still Sharp as Ever

(Spoilers).


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 4, 2018)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> 1996. dolly the sheep, the docklands bombing, tamagotchi & the overthrow of the prince of tyrants...


There's a novel that retcons the eugenics wars to somethong that happened without public knowledge and included many historical events from the nineties.


----------



## Santino (Nov 4, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> There's a novel that retcons the eugenics wars to somethong that happened without public knowledge and included many historical events from the nineties.


Including Blur vs Oasis?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2018)

Bakula’s sidekick from Quantum Leap is in this one!


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Bakula’s sidekick from Quantum Leap is in this one!



Dean Stockwell? Must watch _Enterprise_ in its entirety one of these days.

After you've done STD, how about _Battlestar Galactica_, danny?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Dean Stockwell? Must watch _Enterprise_ in its entirety one of these days.
> 
> After you've done STD, how about _Battlestar Galactica_, danny?


Might do. Is it on Netflix?


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Might do. Is it on Netflix?



Not sure if Netflix UK have it but it's worth immersing yourself in it. Make sure to watch the minseries first otherwise you'll be lost. There's a couple of standalone "movies" - _Razor_ being the only real essential (it takes place during season 3, iirc) and a reasonable spin-off _Caprica_.

Don't wish to give any spoilers whatsoever but (for me) it's one of the greatest sci-fi series for a long time.


----------



## maomao (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Might do. Is it on Netflix?


No. The only streaming service it's available on seems to be YouTube at 18 bloody quid a season. Of course it's torrentable but we know that you don't do that. Shame, it's pretty good.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

maomao said:


> No. The only streaming service it's available on seems to be YouTube at 18 bloody quid a season. Of course it's torrentable but we know that you don't do that. Shame, it's pretty good.


My sister’s partner has box sets of it. I might borrow them.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> My sister’s partner has box sets of it. I might borrow them.



I am genuinely happy to hear this


----------



## Poi E (Nov 5, 2018)

BSG re-wrote the book on space effects and ran with the what-makes-us-human thing that ST started with (the creator of BSG started on Voyager.) Got to see that one, danny.


----------



## strung out (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> My sister’s partner has box sets of it. I might borrow them.


If you weren't that into DS9 then BSG might not be for you either. It has a similar serialised pace and darker tone - it was developed by Ron Moore, who was the executive producer for DS9's final two seasons.


----------



## maomao (Nov 5, 2018)

It's a lot better than DS9 tbf.

I'd be up fior a group rewatch with thread if anyone else was.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 5, 2018)

strung out said:


> If you weren't that into DS9 then BSG might not be for you either. It has a similar serialised pace and darker tone - it was developed by Ron Moore, who was the executive producer for DS9's final two seasons.



Nooo, it is far superior to DS9. And I say that as a fan of both. Yes, it's dark - the ST optimism isn't there. Different universe. But the pace is faster and much, much less filler. The miniseries might leave you a wee bit meh on occasion but it's basically a 3 hour pilot setting you up for the real gig. And (trying not to spoil it) one character you may feel is a rip-off of a DS9 character but that's only initially.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

strung out said:


> If you weren't that into DS9 then BSG might not be for you either. It has a similar serialised pace and darker tone - it was developed by Ron Moore, who was the executive producer for DS9's final two seasons.


It wasn’t the darkness or the serialisation that I didn’t take to: I just didn’t think the serialised story took off (the Dominion were only interesting when we knew little about them). And the ratio of below par episodes throughout was a disappointment. And it took a long time to get into its stride. And it was often more fantasy than sci fi. And Sisko was terrible. And ...

But you’re right, if BG is like DS9 in these respects, I probably won’t like it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

maomao said:


> It's a lot better than DS9 tbf.
> 
> I'd be up fior a group rewatch with thread if anyone else was.


I’m still in ENT series 1. Then I’ve got DISCO. And the remaining TNG films. But after that I’d be in.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

Poi E said:


> BSG re-wrote the book on space effects and ran with the what-makes-us-human thing that ST started with (the creator of BSG started on Voyager.) Got to see that one, danny.


I thought it started in the 70s? Was there a temporal distortion?


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I thought it started in the 70s? Was there a temporal distortion?



Don't even go there. 

Unless you find this charming


----------



## strung out (Nov 5, 2018)

Poi E said:


> BSG re-wrote the book on space effects and ran with the what-makes-us-human thing that ST started with (the creator of BSG started on Voyager.) Got to see that one, danny.


Ron Moore (I'm assuming that's who you're referring to as the creator of BSG) started on TNG but then spent five years on DS9. He fell out with Brannon Braga, so didn't have long on Voyager before leaving.

Also, fuck you all, DS9 is the best Trek and better than BSG, which got shite after two and a half seasons.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Don't even go there.
> 
> Unless you find this charming


No. No, I don’t.

OK, so what are we talking here? Post Voyager means it’s this century? So this is a reboot which rejects its previous boots?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

strung out said:


> Also, fuck you all, DS9 is the best Trek


It really isn’t. I mean, now that ENT S1 is in its stride, even this oft derided franchise is far better than DS9 was for its first three seasons.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> No. No, I don’t.
> 
> OK, so what are we talking here? Post Voyager means it’s this century? So this is a reboot which rejects its previous boots?



BSG started in the late 70s, iirc and was shite. And for a kid like me at the time, who was into Trek, Who and Star Wars, I'd rather have watched Buck Rogers in the 25th Century than original BSG.

The reboot kicked off early 2000s (again, iirc) and blew everything else away. It was dark, gripping, tense and tore the old show to pieces. You really don't need the original as a reference point. It has nothing to do with the reboot. I mean, you could read stuff into it if you wanted as the reboot continued - like, oh there's a nod to the original but other than that - not worth it. 

DS9 is the best Trek (imho) but BSG (reboot) kicks ass. And not in a post-ironic _Starship Troopers_ kinda way. It's just essential.

And it does _not_ get shite after the first 2 seasons. But there will be vicious arguments aplenty after you watch the finale....


----------



## strung out (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> It really isn’t. I mean, now that ENT S1 is in its stride, even this oft derided franchise is far better than DS9 was for its first three seasons.


I used to think you were the voice of reason


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

strung out said:


> I used to think you were the voice of reason


Oh come on, even in the wonderful Tribbles episode (which I love), Sisko wrecks all the timing in the gags that are written for him.


----------



## maomao (Nov 5, 2018)

I started to Google BSG to see what the exact relation between the OS and the reboot was but ended up on the British Society of Gastroeneterology's Twitter page and there are some things you just can't unsee.

Even that was better than most of DS9 though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

I was hoping to find a clip of this scene, where Sisko tries to use his old school Star Fleet badge as a communicator:







It’s a great gag, but he completely fumbles it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 5, 2018)

I didn't mind ds9 at the time, it was just EastEnders in space. These days I struggle with the next generation and only got two EPs into that new one.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 5, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I didn't mind ds9 at the time, it was just EastEnders in space. These days I struggle with the next generation and only got two EPs into that new one.



Ah, we were both a bit so-what for the first 2 eps but it takes off after that. Am actually excited for the next season. Discovery, that is.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

ENT and continuity part 102:

The last few episodes of ENT S1 have referred to the crew anticipating shore leave on *Risa*. Two things: first, I’ll need to check, but I seem to remember that when it is first mentioned in TNG (in a conversation), Riker is describing it to JL Picard in a way that suggests Riker is only newly familiar with it, and that Picard is not. Later it became a regular venue for shore leave, both in TNG and DS9, as well as being mentioned in conversation in VOY. But I was under the impression that at that point, Risa was an exotic place, new to humans. How then can the ENT crew be due to visit in 2150? 

That may be a mistaken impression on my part. But the next point is more serious: after DS9 is relocated to the mouth of the Bajor Wormhole, we ate told on several occasions that Risa is only 6 hours by “runabout” from DS9.

Given that this is _Deep Space_ 9, we can assume this is a long way from Earth. We know Bajor is on the edge of Cardassian Space. Bajor has applied for Federation membership at this point (2369ACE), but is not yet a member. This is therefore just beyond the outer edge of Federation territory.

Even if the direction of Risa is back into Federation Space towards Earth from DS9, it is still only 6 hours in. 

How can Enterprise NX-01 possibly be there by now? It is warp 5 on paper, but shudders, overheats, and bursts into flames at top speeds. 

Is Federation Space just much smaller than I’d imagined?


----------



## cybershot (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> ENT and continuity part 102:
> 
> The last few episodes of ENT S1 have referred to the crew anticipating shore leave on *Risa*. Two things: first, I’ll need to check, but I seem to remember that when it is first mentioned in TNG (in a conversation), Riker is describing it to JL Picard in a way that suggests Riker is only newly familiar with it, and that Picard is not. Later it became a regular venue for shore leave, both in TNG and DS9, as well as being mentioned in conversation in VOY. But I was under the impression that at that point, Risa was an exotic place, new to humans. How then can the ENT crew be due to visit in 2150?
> 
> ...



Possibly. When I was properly into this and had ST encyplopedias and what not, explored space in the alpha quadrant was still relatively small in the grand scale of things.

Also, how warp speed was calculated in TOS and TNG was different, so I assume ENT takes that on board. So Warp 5 in ENT, is not the same as Warp 5 in TNG.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Possibly. When I was properly into this and had ST encyplopedias and what not, explored space in the alpha quadrant was still relatively small in the grand scale of things.
> 
> Also, how warp speed was calculated in TOS and TNG was different, so I assume ENT takes that on board. So Warp 5 in ENT, is not the same as Warp 5 in TNG.


I’m not sure it’s even consistent within a series! But I seem to call the Defiant taking a month to get to Earth from DS9. It’s a warp 9.5 vessel (iirc).  I know warp factors increase geometrically, so warp 9 is *not* “twice warp 4.5”. But I wouldn’t know how to calculate what it is. 

We need tables.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 5, 2018)

You ask you shall get:


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

Don’t know if this helps, but I’m watching ENT S1: E24 “Two Days and Two Nights”, and Archer says Sol is 90 light years away (from Risa), and that Risa is “the farthest any of my people have gone”.


----------



## Signal 11 (Nov 6, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Don’t know if this helps, but I’m watching ENT S1: E24 “Two Days and Two Nights”, and Archer says Sol is 90 light years away (from Risa), and that Risa is “the farthest any of my people have gone”.


Using the TNG scale from the table above, I make it a little under a year at warp 4 or about 5 months at warp 5, Captain. (nearly double those if using the TOS scale)

The DS9 runabout apparently has a top speed of warp 5, so 6 hours would get you 0.15 light years. Our next nearest star is a little over 4 light years away. 



> Although the Shore Leave Planet from TOS: "Shore Leave" was briefly considered as the destination, it was rejected because it is depicted as being new to Starfleet in that episode, set in the future of this one. Another idea – Wrigley's pleasure planet, which had been mentioned once in TOS: "The Man Trap" – has a name that was thought to sound too Human and too well-known for the relatively distant region of space which Enterprise was now meant to be in. The writers finally settled on choosing Risa, not only because it had been established earlier in the Star Trek franchise but also due to the increased likelihood that it might be in Vulcan ken. "The Vulcans have been there and T'Pol would know about it,"
> Two Days and Two Nights (episode)


----------



## Poi E (Nov 6, 2018)

danny, this has all happened before. And will again.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 6, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Bakula’s sidekick from Quantum Leap is in this one!


Some sort of Guantanamo/internment parable right? Only watched it on first airing.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> Some sort of Guantanamo/internment parable right? Only watched it on first airing.


Yes. Not a bad one either. Very TOS in feel.

Despite my initial reservations, I’m enjoying ENT. It’s been unfairly maligned.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2018)

In the episode I’ve just watched Archer and Malcolm are in EV suits on the hull. It was a good enough story, but I have a technical complaint.  It may be a *spoiler* for those who haven’t seen the episode. 



Spoiler: “technical complaint”



EVA scenario error - For the manoeuvre that saves their lives, the Captain and Malcolm, floating in space on a section of hull plating, leap from the plating into space, and, floating free, then have to spin to face a blast so that the pod doors they are holding will face the blast. So: leap away, spin 180 to face blast, stop dead.  

They wouldn’t stop dead. They’d keep pirouetting.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 7, 2018)

I’ve been giving more thought to the physics of that problem.



Spoiler



Although I don’t know the mass of the plating panel (I’m assuming duritanium, of which I don’t know the properties), the “leap” would have been more of a push off than an actual leap. This may have had the effect of pushing the panel (depending on its mass relative to them). However, were they still in orbit over the mined planet? If so, the orbit vector would come into play. From practical examples, the Apollo and Gemini astronaut Mike Collins was able to push off from a Gemini capsule to reach another orbiting craft. The Gemini capsule was very small compared to the Apollo command pod.  But Collins did not push Gemini out of its orbit. However he required a lot of very frustrating manoeuvring involving gas guns to correct his direction. 

Indeed Gene Cernan had to abandon an earlier Gemini EVA due to exhaustion when he could not remove equipment from the back of the Gemini pod, due to the frustrations of weightlessness: his efforts pushed him away from his target instead of pulling the equipment off its mountings. 

Even once Archer and Malcolm were free of the panel, they faced being buffeted by the explosion shock waves. Their ability to direct their “space walk” would have been hampered by the fact they carried no gas guns. And they faced a frustrating few hours of their efforts working against them. They did not have tethers like the Gemini astronauts, nor did they have teleportation like later Star Fleet crew. Their journey back to Enterprise would not have been accomplished before Travis had to go to warp and leave the sector.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 7, 2018)

I’d like to that you all for being here for me. Very few of my friends or relatives would put up with that kind of geekerie.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 7, 2018)




----------



## Santino (Nov 7, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’d like to that you all for being here for me. Very few of my friends or relatives would put up with that kind of geekerie.


We're listening, danny.


----------



## Santino (Nov 7, 2018)

[An enemy spaceship repeatedly fires torpedoes on the Enterprise]

Troi: Captain, I'm sensing great hostility from the Bu'kari.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 10, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Don’t know if this helps, but I’m watching ENT S1: E24 “Two Days and Two Nights”, and Archer says Sol is 90 light years away (from Risa), and that Risa is “the farthest any of my people have gone”.


The Enterprise finale may hold the answer.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> The Enterprise finale may hold the answer.


No spoilers!!!

(Although my sister - the elder of my two younger sisters - has already said “I can’t wait to find out your outraged reaction to the finale”).


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 10, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’d like to that you all for being here for me. Very few of my friends or relatives would put up with that kind of geekerie.


Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2018)

Idris2002 said:


> Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


Several times!


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 12, 2018)

Anyway. . . I've been reading Philip K. Dick's_ Flow My Tears,the Policeman Said_. Published in 1974, and set in a 1988 dominated by a global police state (he was just thirty years off).  One neat little detail is that in this fictional 1988, sci-fi movies are referred to as "captain kirks" (all lowercase), which I thought was a nice little homage to the original series.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Several times!


On the lips?


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 12, 2018)

emanymton said:


> On the lips?


And was tonguing involved?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 12, 2018)

Idris2002 said:


> And was tonguing involved?


Ew, no. Most of them were aunties.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 13, 2018)

I’ve now caught up with myself.  Last night I watched the episode I saw some of a couple of years ago: Star Trek: Discovery

I still didn’t like the idea that not all Vulcans have telepathic abilities and are therefore not all able to mind meld. Even though that’s now been set up. 

And actually I thought it was a poor episode. Its tone was more soap-like and the subplot was weak. There have been some very good episodes of late, so it was a poor one for me to have dipped into back then.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve now caught up with myself.  Last night I watched the episode I saw some of a couple of years ago: Star Trek: Discovery
> 
> I still didn’t like the idea that not all Vulcans have telepathic abilities and are therefore not all able to mind meld. Even though that’s now been set up.
> 
> And actually I thought it was a poor episode. Its tone was more soap-like and the subplot was weak. There have been some very good episodes of late, so it was a poor one for me to have dipped into back then.


I think we were supposed as a knowing audience to realise that was bullshit A bit like the stuff about how very few Trills could join in Deep Space Nine being a lie and a means of social control.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 13, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> I think we were supposed as a knowing audience to realise that was bullshit A bit like the stuff about how very few Trills could join in Deep Space Nine being a lie and a means of social control.


I like this idea. It chimes with the High Command’s refusal to accept time travel as possible despite the mounting evidence.

Yes, if it’s just an official line based on ideological distaste, then I’m OK with that. Especially if we can assume this official resistance has fallen by the time of TOS, and that mind melds and telepathic ability are accepted into Vulcan spirituality by the time of Spock.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 13, 2018)

I'm glad your enjoying Enterprise. It oddly does seem a better watch now, than it did at the time. Underrated.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I'm glad your enjoying Enterprise. It oddly does seem a better watch now, than it did at the time. Underrated.


Unless it somehow goes badly wrong over the next two and a half seasons, I honestly rate it higher than I do DS9.


----------



## maomao (Nov 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Unless it somehow goes badly wrong over the next two and a half seasons, I honestly rate it higher than I do DS9.


I was actually unable to rewatch ds9. I gave up after just over a series. It felt even more dated than tng.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 13, 2018)

maomao said:


> I was actually unable to rewatch ds9. I gave up after just over a series. It felt even more dated than tng.


I said that right at the beginning of my watching it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 13, 2018)

From the Netflix thread. 

“DS9 feels much more soap-like, and feels strangely far more dated than TNG.”.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 13, 2018)

DS9 was always going to be more soap-like or at least more situationaly familiar. Because its a space station. Thats why I never clicked with it at the time of airing tbf, there was the sense with TNG that the ship could be anywhere, in any situation this week. I did rate DS9 a lot on the years later rewatch, and I do mean yrs. I binged the dominion war stuff on netflix lol


----------



## strung out (Nov 13, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> DS9 was always going to be more soap-like or at least more situationaly familiar. Because its a space station. Thats why I never clicked with it at the time of airing tbf, there was the sense with TNG that the ship could be anywhere, in any situation this week. I did rate DS9 a lot on the years later rewatch, and I do mean yrs. I binged the dominion war stuff on netflix lol


DS9 is the best of all the Star Trek shows given the way television went shortly after - it did big multi-season story arcs better than any Star Trek before or since. It's not a traditional Star Trek show though, which is why I think a lot of fans who prefer one-off conceptual bottle episodes don't get it. 

I think I actually prefer TNG for comfort viewing, but if I want good television, DS9 wins every time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 13, 2018)

strung out said:


> DS9 is the best of all the Star Trek shows given the way television went shortly after - it did big multi-season story arcs better than any Star Trek before or since. It's not a traditional Star Trek show though, which is why I think a lot of fans who prefer one-off conceptual bottle episodes don't get it.
> 
> I think I actually prefer TNG for comfort viewing, but if I want good television, DS9 wins every time.


no BSG without DS9 as a forerunner?


----------



## strung out (Nov 13, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> no BSG without DS9 as a forerunner?


Probably true both because of DS9 proving that multi-season storytelling in sci-fi could work, but also because Ronald D Moore cut his teeth writing and producing the same type of stories for DS9 that he ended up doing four years later for BSG.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 13, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> DS9 was always going to be more soap-like or at least more situationaly familiar. Because its a space station.


For me it’s more than that: the interpersonal tension and “office politics” was new to Trek (for me. Remember I only knew TOS and TAS). TNG had a very similar interpersonal dynamic to TOS. But suddenly DS9 didn’t. And to me, seeing it for the first time, it had dated more than TNG in that respect.



> Thats why I never clicked with it at the time of airing tbf, there was the sense with TNG that the ship could be anywhere, in any situation this week. I did rate DS9 a lot on the years later rewatch, and I do mean yrs. I binged the dominion war stuff on netflix lol


It’s been an interesting experiment for me. I have no nostalgia for TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. They’re all exactly as new to me as the time it’s taken me to binge them. And so I’m watching them post-Sopranos, post-Mad Men, post-Breaking Bad. As binge series.

And in that environment, for me with no preconceptions (other than a 60s/70s childhood steeped in TOS lore, and an 80s VHS generation attachment to the TOS films), the same things are not holding up for me that will hold up for people who saw TNG onwards at the time.

And for me DS9 largely doesn’t work. Despite the fans who saw it in the day rating it. Whereas ENT does (so far), despite fans who followed all the franchise largely hating it.


----------



## Humberto (Nov 13, 2018)

I've never really watched much star trek but am thinking of beginning with TNG. 40 quid on Amazon though. Reckon its worth it? You get 25 episodes like.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 13, 2018)

Humberto said:


> I've never really watched much star trek but am thinking of beginning with TNG. 40 quid on Amazon though. Reckon its worth it? You get 25 episodes like.


In that case don’t bother with season one. And in season 2 only “Measure of a Man” is worth bothering with.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> For me it’s more than that: the interpersonal tension and “office politics” was new to Trek (for me. Remember I only knew TOS and TAS). TNG had a very similar interpersonal dynamic to TNG. But suddenly DS9 didn’t. And to me, seeing it for the first time, it had dated more than TNG in that respect.
> 
> 
> It’s been an interesting experiment for me. I have no nostalgia for TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. They’re all exactly as new to me as the time it’s taken me to binge them. And so I’m watching them post-Sopranos, post-Mad Men, post-Breaking Bad. As binge series.
> ...


Plus you hated siskos acting a lot ennit. It is an intersting experiment to read as well, you were far kinder to Voyager than I ever was.

Can I convince you to give Battlestar Galactica a go when you've done with trek? it is worth it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 13, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Can I convince you to give Battlestar Galactica a go when you've done with trek? it is worth it


Definitely. I’ve already lined up a loan of the box set from my sister’s boyf.


----------



## strung out (Nov 13, 2018)

This is a good article I read recently, that talks (among other stuff) about why TOS and TNG worked, but also what people loved about DS9: Star Trek: why we can't wait to go back to the 24th century

_



			"[TOS] was a show designed for syndication. This meant that episodes needed to be entirely self-enclosed, with characters returning to the status quo at the end of each adventure so that networks could play them in any order, using a handful of Kirk’s escapades to neatly plug holes in their schedule whenever they needed to.

With The Original Series, it’s possible to dive into any episode (bar, possibly, the series’ lone two-parter) and quickly grasp not just the plot, but the dynamics between the three lead characters. McCoy is never shown to grow more tolerant of Spock’s stoicism, for instance – we assume that their friendship is growing stronger over time, because that’s what friendships often do, but there’s no real evidence of that within the show itself. No-one’s promoted or reassigned, the main characters are effectively immortal and past adventures are spoken of only in oblique terms even when villains like Harry Mudd do make a return appearance, many of which happened in the animated follow-up rather than the live-action show.

While we’ll never know for sure if the aborted sequel Star Trek: Phase II would have continued to tell isolated, stand-alone adventures, the Star Trek movies began to head down a very different path. Even when the films didn’t immediately follow on from one another, they began to embrace the show’s own continuity and build upon past events, allowing the characters to grow and change over time.

Likewise, 1987’s Star Trek: The Next Generation, which debuted while the original crew were still riding high at the box office, almost immediately went out of its way to push beyond the confines of syndicated TV. During its pilot episode, Encounter At Farpoint, we see the main cast encountering one another for the first time - along with a few reunions - and as they get acquainted, we come to know them too. Early on the story chooses to follow Riker, using him as our proxy while he tours this unfamiliar Enterprise and meets its austere new captain. It’s a measured and deliberate premiere that takes time to make its audience familiar not just with the full ensemble cast, but also with the ship they’ll be calling home. (By contrast, we still don’t know for sure how prime-universe Kirk, Spock and McCoy first met.)

As the story goes, TNG’s original remit would have been to make a clean break within the series canon, never acknowledging The Original Series. James T. Kirk, it was felt, would have long ago been consigned to history as just another heroic Starfleet captain. In practice, this conceit is discarded barely half an hour into the pilot, when DeForest Kelley’s unnamed character appears to give the ship and its crew his blessing. Given that the very next episode would go on to be a sequel of sorts to classic story The Naked Time, the message was loud and clear: The Next Generation would be unrepentantly building upon what had come before."
		
Click to expand...

_
Until DS9...
_



			"It was, perhaps, the launch of Deep Space Nine and the exodus of several regular characters that helped cement Star Trek as something with a lore that mattered. While not particularly commonplace, crossovers of characters and themes did occur – rebel group The Maquis first appeared by name in Deep Space Nine, for example, but had had the seeds of their discontent sown in a TNG episode that aired a few weeks prior. Even if characters weren’t popping up in one another’s programmes every week, it certainly felt like they could.

To anyone growing up who desperately wished they could spend time in Star Trek’s universe, this world-building was hugely important. Whether you were modelling the Enterprise in Doom, prepping your latest cosplay ensemble or fleshing out a Klingon warrior for an online MUD, a group of Hollywood’s most talented creators were bringing you and fans like you into a complex and nuanced fantasy universe, expanding and enriching it in 45-minute increments every week.

Having created a rich tapestry of alien cultures and worlds, the writers soon began to unravel it in search of new stories to tell, shifting threads and recombining them in new patterns. The Maquis were destroyed at the hands of the Dominion even as the Klingon Empire severed ties with the Federation and launched an invasion of Cardassia. The Ferengi Alliance found itself with a Grand Nagus promoting equal rights and free commerce, while the Romulan Senate was completely annihilated."
		
Click to expand...

_


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 13, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Definitely. I’ve already lined up a loan of the box set from my sister’s boyf.


I might join you then, yrs since I watched it through. I will 'loan' a box set from the internet, the opening episode '33' could stand alone as a great piece of sci fi.


----------



## maomao (Nov 14, 2018)

I watched a couple of ENT episodes and it is actually quite good. I particularly like them having a linguist on the team cause now I get to feel how proper science graduates feel when they watch any Star Trek:

_The syntax isn't aligning!_ What?

_The grammar sounds bimodal!_ Oh come on. Every single word except 'the' in that sentence is rubbish.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 14, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> no BSG without DS9 as a forerunner?



Ron Moore also wrote episodes for TNG. Some of the best in fact. But with DS9 he got to shape the whole show and developed ideas that would later end up in BSG.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 15, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I like this idea. It chimes with the High Command’s refusal to accept time travel as possible despite the mounting evidence.
> 
> Yes, if it’s just an official line based on ideological distaste, then I’m OK with that. Especially if we can assume this official resistance has fallen by the time of TOS, and that mind melds and telepathic ability are accepted into Vulcan spirituality by the time of Spock.


The Vulcan stuff eventually goes somewhere.


danny la rouge said:


> Unless it somehow goes badly wrong over the next two and a half seasons, I honestly rate it higher than I do DS9.



If anything it gets better.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 15, 2018)

Cool. That’s exciting.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 18, 2018)

I’m finding it a it hard to swallow all the species we’re bumping into hundreds of years before Kirk or Picard first meet them.

OK, the Tribble incident was amusing. Phlock says “the only thing that keeps their their exponential breeding in check are the lizards on their own planet”, before feeding it to a lizard.

But a whole episode (initially based on the Thing. So props there) about the 



Spoiler



Borg? Oh come on. I know they don’t learn their name. But they learn enough for Star Fleet to be well informed and prepared when Picard “first” encounters them. It’s annoying.  Picard would definitely have read up on all the tactical information he could find. And although Kirk probably wouldn’t have, Spock would.

Continuity matters. If you’re not going to pay attention to continuity, you may as well call it something else. Then you can invent a whole new universe to deal with.


.


(Edited to correct fat fingered garble).


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 18, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I might join you then, yrs since I watched it through. I will 'loan' a box set from the internet, the opening episode '33' could stand alone as a great piece of sci fi.



It is great but it's essential that danny watched the miniseries first, otherwise it doesn't make sense


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 19, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m finding it a it hard to swallow all the species we’re bumping into hundreds of years before Kirk or Picard first meet them.
> 
> OK, the Tribble incident was amusing. Phlock says “the only thing that keeps their their exponential breeding in check are the lizards on their own planet”, before feeding it to a lizard.
> 
> ...


Chris Pine wouldn't but Kirk would.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> If anything it gets better


Since they entered the Expanse, I’m rapidly losing interest.  I’ll keep going but the first two seasons were much better. (I’ve just watched Exile).


----------



## strung out (Nov 23, 2018)

Has anyone been watching the Short Treks they've released to bridge the gap until season 2 of Discovery comes out? The first one wasn't great, but the second was fantastic!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 23, 2018)

Humberto said:


> I've never really watched much star trek but am thinking of beginning with TNG. 40 quid on Amazon though. Reckon its worth it? You get 25 episodes like.



Don't start with series one. General wisdom is that it's largely crap until series 3.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 26, 2018)

strung out said:


> Has anyone been watching the Short Treks they've released to bridge the gap until season 2 of Discovery comes out? The first one wasn't great, but the second was fantastic!



Not on Netflix or YouTube, as far as I can see


----------



## maomao (Nov 26, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Don't start with series one. General wisdom is that it's largely crap until series 3.


General wisdom is wrong. Good episodes start outnumbering bad episodes from series 3 but there's plenty of both before and after this point.


----------



## strung out (Nov 26, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Not on Netflix or YouTube, as far as I can see


Only available legally in the US and Canada annoyingly.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 14, 2018)

I’ve finished Enterprise.  I think it’s been unfairly maligned.  Once I got used to it, I liked it.  Seasons 1 and 2 are the most even in terms of story quality.  Season three drags at the start, then picks up.  Season 4 is more patchy, but has some excellent moments.  The Temporal Cold War seems to just peter out in Season 4.  I thought it would re-emerge, but they just seem to forget about it.

I wasn’t keen on the Nazi episodes.  Nor did I like the Mirror Universe ones; in fact, I gave up on the second one and skipped to the next story.  That’s the only time I had to do that with Enterprise.  They were especially pointless because they interrupted the flow of a series reaching its conclusion, and didn’t have any of “Our” Universe Enterprise crew, so it was hard to see why we were supposed to care.  And I didn’t.  Although I enjoyed the changed theme tune and title sequence.

Final episode:



Spoiler



I thought at first they were going to do a Bobby-wakes-up-in-the-shower style “it was all just a holonovel that Ryker was using”, but they didn’t.  I kind of get that it was supposed to show that they’d gone down in history, and to locate the series within Trek mythology.  But I felt it actually undermined the show and crew by not allowing them their own conclusion: they were just part of a story that hadn’t even been thought through properly between Ryker and an unseen Picard.  (I did smile when they only had Data’s voice, though: the actor had just been in Enterprise a few episodes previously and we therefore knew he’d grown too old to carry off the boyish android’s appearance any more!)



So now I've just got a couple of the TNG films to see and DISCO.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 14, 2018)

> So now I've just got a couple of the TNG films to see.


If you love yourself in any way then please don’t.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 14, 2018)

kabbes said:


> If you love yourself in any way then please don’t.


----------



## Sea Star (Dec 14, 2018)

what doesn't kill you makes you stronger


----------



## Graymalkin (Dec 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve finished Enterprise.  I think it’s been unfairly maligned.  Once I got used to it, I liked it.  Seasons 1 and 2 are the most even in terms of story quality.  Season three drags at the start, then picks up.  Season 4 is more patchy, but has some excellent moments.  The Temporal Cold War seems to just peter out in Season 4.  I thought it would re-emerge, but they just seem to forget about it.
> 
> I wasn’t keen on the Nazi episodes.  Nor did I like the Mirror Universe ones; in fact, I gave up on the second one and skipped to the next story.  That’s the only time I had to do that with Enterprise.  They were especially pointless because they interrupted the flow of a series reaching its conclusion, and didn’t have any of “Our” Universe Enterprise crew, so it was hard to see why we were supposed to care.  And I didn’t.  Although I enjoyed the changed theme tune and title sequence.
> 
> ...


THe cast of Enterprise expressed anger at the finale for that very reason.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jan 12, 2019)

The plot has been revealed for the new Star Trek series starring Patrick Stewart | JOE.ie


Jean Luc is back...


----------



## cybershot (Jan 13, 2019)

Probably worth reading the Star Trek: countdown graphic novel in that case.

Or at least reading the plot. 

Star Trek: Countdown - Wikipedia


----------



## moochedit (Mar 2, 2019)

Lupa said:


> The plot has been revealed for the new Star Trek series starring Patrick Stewart | JOE.ie
> 
> 
> Jean Luc is back...



A bit more info here about the characters in the series.

REPORT: Star Trek Picard Spinoff Gets First Character Breakdowns


----------



## Dandred (Mar 2, 2019)

Just digging around and it looks like Michelle Yeoh did loads of porn in her early career!


----------



## Reno (Mar 3, 2019)

Dandred said:


> Just digging around and it looks like Michelle Yeoh did loads of porn in her early career!


*Just* digging around ?


----------



## agricola (Mar 4, 2019)

moochedit said:


> A bit more info here about the characters in the series.
> 
> REPORT: Star Trek Picard Spinoff Gets First Character Breakdowns



That sounds terrible, like a bad remake of _Serenity_ except Book is the captain and we know everything about him beforehand.


----------



## mojo pixy (Mar 5, 2019)

Dandred said:


> Just digging around and it looks like Michelle Yeoh did loads of porn in her early career!



Her full-length name with honorifics is excellent: _Tan Sri Dato' Seri Michelle Yeoh Choo-Kheng_


----------



## cybershot (Apr 25, 2019)

Sounds shite: 

Star Trek Animated Series Headed to Nickelodeon - ComingSoon.net

On the flip, the Picard series has apparently started filming.


----------



## Balbi (May 15, 2019)

Star Trek: Picard Title, Logo, First Footage Revealed

Confirmed as Star Trek: Picard


----------



## danny la rouge (May 16, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Star Trek: Picard Title, Logo, First Footage Revealed
> 
> Confirmed as Star Trek: Picard
> 
> View attachment 171118


So it’s going to be on Amazon in the UK? Oh well.  I suppose I’ll see it eventually if someone I know buys the DVD.


----------



## YouSir (May 16, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> So it’s going to be on Amazon in the UK? Oh well.  I suppose I’ll see it eventually if someone I know buys the DVD.



Amazon Prime do a free month trial I think, as long as you remember to cancel it there's plenty of time to binge.


----------



## cybershot (May 16, 2019)

Need to try and et hold of this.

Contains spoilers, if you intend to watch it.

What We Left Behind: Biggest Reveals From The Deep Space Nine Documentary


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2019)

^^No news on when that will be airing for us yet. Looks good though, a labour of love done at enough distance from the time to get a god look back


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 16, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Need to try and et hold of this.
> 
> Contains spoilers, if you intend to watch it.
> 
> What We Left Behind: Biggest Reveals From The Deep Space Nine Documentary



Great article. Deep Space 9 is my favourite.


----------



## cybershot (May 16, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> ^^No news on when that will be airing for us yet. Looks good though, a labour of love done at enough distance from the time to get a god look back



Some cinemas should be showing it, sign up here for more info: https://www.cinevents.co.uk/star-trek


----------



## cybershot (May 16, 2019)




----------



## cybershot (May 23, 2019)




----------



## Balbi (May 23, 2019)

Honestly, I am already too excited about this


----------



## DexterTCN (May 23, 2019)

I'll be paying for it to support it.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 19, 2019)

Seems legit


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 19, 2019)

steveo87 said:


> Seems legit View attachment 177882


Holt is a _much_ better actor.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 19, 2019)

So in the new 'Picard is a Lecturer now' series he's got a dog. Speculation as to the dogs name has been rife.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> So in the new 'Picard is a Lecturer now' series he's got a dog. Speculation as to the dogs name has been rife.


Number Two?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 19, 2019)

My money is on a shakespeare reff. Iago is a silly name for a dog but something like Iago


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> My money is on a shakespeare reff. Iago is a silly name for a dog but something like Iago


Prospero, maybe?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 19, 2019)

Caliban, by way of a sly nod to Logan.


----------



## Santino (Jul 19, 2019)

Pat


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 19, 2019)

Jess


----------



## cybershot (Jul 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> So in the new 'Picard is a Lecturer now' series he's got a dog. Speculation as to the dogs name has been rife.



Didn't someone zoom in on the picture of his dog collar tag and it was engraved with 'number one'


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 19, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Didn't someone zoom in on the picture of his dog collar tag and it was engraved with 'number one'



that is news to me! maybe its riker trapped in a dogs body lol


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 20, 2019)

Oh Lordy, yes yesyes


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 20, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Oh Lordy, yes yesyes






Spoiler



Seven of Nine! Commander Data! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 20, 2019)

omfg 7 of 9


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 20, 2019)

Fuck!


----------



## Dandred (Jul 21, 2019)

Can't wait


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 21, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Oh Lordy, yes yesyes




Grit... in my... eye


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 21, 2019)

OMG!


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 21, 2019)

Cant be Data though, that must be BB8 or whatever his robot clone was called.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 21, 2019)

Someone has pointed out potential Romulan writing inside the Borg cube. Interesting. Is the girl seven’s daughter?

This has huge potential and if anything I just hope it’s the kick up the arse to get a proper series based back in the future in the prime time line. Fed up of this going backwards rubbish. We should progressing past TNG /DS9/VOY and doing what Star Trek is supposed to be again.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 21, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Cant be Data though, that must be BB8 or whatever his robot clone was called.


Lore was ace. I liked him better than Data tbh


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 21, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> Lore was ace. I liked him better than Data tbh


I prefer Maximilian from the black hole personally, but anyway. Data, and thus lore, we're  the best thing about TNG. Burnt spiner completely owned the show. Picard may be played by Patrick sir Stewart, but Picard is actually a terrible character. No personality, massively arrogant, and I suffer ably righteous. Data was a joy to watch.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 21, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Someone has pointed out potential Romulan writing inside the Borg cube. Interesting. Is the girl seven’s daughter?
> 
> This has huge potential and if anything I just hope it’s the kick up the arse to get a proper series based back in the future in the prime time line. Fed up of this going backwards rubbish. We should progressing past TNG /DS9/VOY and doing what Star Trek is supposed to be again.


Like setting Discovery season 3 in the 31st century?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 21, 2019)

Seven of Nine and Data.... I am beyond excitement!!


----------



## cybershot (Jul 21, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Like setting Discovery season 3 in the 31st century?



Yeah but. Bollox. I’ve been wanting this romulan race story conclusion since the comic book series before the kelvin timeline film reboots.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 21, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Is the girl seven’s daughter?


I was guessing Lal mixed with borg tech


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 21, 2019)

Borg be comin

I'm squeeing all over


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 21, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Picard is actually a terrible character. No personality, massively arrogant, and I suffer ably righteous.


Get off the boards


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 21, 2019)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I was guessing Lal mixed with borg tech


Lal...died.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 21, 2019)

S☼I said:


> Get off the boards


He can't even tolerate children! He had to hire Jonathan Frakes to make sure he doesn't appear awkward in front of them!

And then lets a fifteen year old boy fly the ship! Not even Troi! A commander!

His best friend is a god, and he's still miserable!

He never lets Worf blow shit up! Poor old Worf had to go get a job on a space station once owned by nazis!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 21, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Lal...died.


Her neural net was incorporated by data.

He kept her with him.  So people can excuse when he uses contractions by accident.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 21, 2019)

I know it's standard procedure these days but they've spoiled a couple of great reveals in that trailer for the sake of generating interest in a show that's out...six months from now.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> He can't even tolerate children! He had to hire Jonathan Frakes to make sure he doesn't appear awkward in front of them!
> 
> And then lets a fifteen year old boy fly the ship! Not even Troi! A commander!
> 
> ...



Shut up, Wesley


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 22, 2019)

it looks great, cant wait until its on , although Jean Luc does look and sound a bit doddery


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 22, 2019)

Remember when everyone took the piss out the original series crew for being old and fat?

How times change!


----------



## cybershot (Jul 22, 2019)

Edit: Wrong thread


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jul 22, 2019)

Okay, so after Discovery I've got back into ST and am really looking forward to watching Picard next year. But what else do I need to catch up on before then, in order to understand the backstory/lore and get the most out of it? Obviously watching the entirety of TNG/DS9/Voyager/Enterprise isn't likely to happen, but are there any recommendations for essential stuff to catch up on?

I have the first 10 films on DVD, if that helps...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 22, 2019)

best of both worlds part 1 & 2 , TNG episodes for a start.


----------



## strung out (Jul 22, 2019)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Okay, so after Discovery I've got back into ST and am really looking forward to watching Picard next year. But what else do I need to catch up on before then, in order to understand the backstory/lore and get the most out of it? Obviously watching the entirety of TNG/DS9/Voyager/Enterprise isn't likely to happen, but are there any recommendations for essential stuff to catch up on?
> 
> I have the first 10 films on DVD, if that helps...


Given some of the stuff in the trailer, I'm guessing you'll want to watch all the Borg stuff from TNG and Voyager. For general stuff around the state of play in the Federation, the whole Dominion war of DS9 (plus associated Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian politics episodes) would be both useful and also encompass the best that Trek has to offer.

Annoyingly, you might also want to watch Star Trek 2009 to get a handle on why the Romulan Empire is in such a shit state post TNG, along with (shudder) Star Trek Nemesis.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 22, 2019)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Okay, so after Discovery I've got back into ST and am really looking forward to watching Picard next year. But what else do I need to catch up on before then, in order to understand the backstory/lore and get the most out of it? Obviously watching the entirety of TNG/DS9/Voyager/Enterprise isn't likely to happen, but are there any recommendations for essential stuff to catch up on?
> 
> I have the first 10 films on DVD, if that helps...



DS9 probably isnt going to have much impact on the Picard series (I could be wrong, poster above says watch it)

You'll probably need to watch TNG borg episodes, First Contact, Nemesis, VOY Borg episodes at a minimum, and maybe read the Star Trek: Countdown graphic novel I think is now classed as 'canon' but it's not 100% and this series may blow that out the window, but it goes into greater detail to explain the demise of Romulus before the first reboot film and how Spock Prime end up in the Kelvin timeline.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 22, 2019)

TNG S2: E9 the Measure of a Man
TNG S3:E26 & S4:E1 the Best of Both Worlds
TNG S4:E11 Data’s Day

VOY - I'd suggest trying to watch all of series 4-7. It’s easily the best Trek outside of the best of TOS.  But if you don’t have time, you’ll have to try and  see -

VOY S3:E26 & S4:E1 Scorpions
VOY S5: E15&16 Dark Frontier (not a fan of the Borg Queen concept, but given that she was introduced by TNG, she had to feature, and aside from that, this is a vital story).

But overall, Seven of Nine resuscitated VOY, and you should probably find a list of all her big stories.

I’d skip DS9. It doesn’t seem to apply to this trailer, and it’s by far the worst Trek series, although it has its moments (notably the Tribbles episode, although Sisko spoils every scene he’s in with his terrible timing).


----------



## strung out (Jul 22, 2019)

Voyager is shocking 

(for the most part anyway, it has a few good episodes)


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 22, 2019)

strung out said:


> Voyager is shocking


Disagree strongly. It’s great.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> I’d skip DS9. It doesn’t seem to apply to this trailer, and it’s by far the worst Trek series, although it has its moments (notably the Tribbles episode, although Sisko spoils every scene he’s in with his terrible timing).



wrong!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 22, 2019)

ruffneck23 said:


> wrong!


You think Sisko can act? I beg to differ.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 22, 2019)

wasnt saying that, should have clarified , DS 9 is my favourite of the series, Enterprise was the worst IMO


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 22, 2019)

ruffneck23 said:


> wasnt saying that, should have clarified , DS 9 is my favourite of the series, Enterprise was the worst IMO


I don’t get the ENT hate. I grew to quite like it. I’d say, in order:

TOS (for starting it all)
VOY
DISCO
TNG
ENT





DS9


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 22, 2019)

well youre quite riight to have an opinion, I just dont agree with it, but it would be a boring old world if we all agreed


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 22, 2019)

ruffneck23 said:


> well youre quite riight to have an opinion, I just dont agree with it, but it would be a boring old world if we all agreed


Also, I didn’t watch them as they aired: I caught up on everything post TOS (and post TAS) in the last couple of years, by binge watching on Netflix. So I’m not thinking back fondly to TNG or whatever in the context of how it seemed compared to the TV of the time as it aired, because I didn’t see it in its era.


----------



## strung out (Jul 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Also, I didn’t watch them as they aired: I caught up on everything post TOS (and post TAS) in the last couple of years, by binge watching on Netflix. So I’m not thinking back fondly to TNG or whatever in the context of how it seemed compared to the TV of the time as it aired, because I didn’t see it in its era.


You're wrong about DS9 though, it's the best TV show of all the Star Trek series, and possibly of all time on television generally.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 22, 2019)

strung out said:


> You're wrong about DS9 though, it's the best TV show of all the Star Trek series, and possibly of all time on television generally.


I found it hadn’t dated well. It was very soap-like, and the phantasy stuff was way over the top. (Fight scenes where people fire beams out of their hands is not sci fi. It’s magic). And Sisko was terrible. And the mirror universe stuff was embarrassing.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2019)

Even at the time it suffered poorly in comparison to Babylon 5


----------



## strung out (Jul 22, 2019)

I don't think I can handle two of my favourite posters being mean about DS9


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2019)

I actually liked it at the time but I haven’t rewatched it.  I just preferred B5 a lot.


----------



## maomao (Jul 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> And Sisko was terrible.


Yes but often captivating nonetheless.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 22, 2019)

maomao said:


> Yes but often captivating nonetheless.


I feel I should back down because strung out was nice about me.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> I don’t get the ENT hate. I grew to quite like it. I’d say, in order:
> 
> TOS (for starting it all)
> VOY
> ...



Shut up Wesley


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 22, 2019)

So watched the Picard trailer

so little girl is a proto borg queen

looks mucho fun


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 22, 2019)

Ax^ said:


> Shut up Wesley


If that’s a dig at my jumper...


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 22, 2019)

one other thing, the data scene look a bit like a holo deck simulation

data appeared like he was still on the enterprise..


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 22, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Even at the time it suffered poorly in comparison to Babylon 5



The greatest.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 22, 2019)

Meh


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 22, 2019)

Ax^ said:


> Meh


So say we all.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jul 22, 2019)

DexterTCN said:


> View attachment 178293
> The greatest.


Just started the final season of this, actually, thus my question about what ST to watch next. It'll be nice to watch something without random sexy scenes popping up unexpectedly when watching it on the plane...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 22, 2019)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Just started the final season of this, actually, thus my question about what ST to watch next. It'll be nice to watch something without random sexy scenes popping up unexpectedly when watching it on the plane...



DS9 had the same showrunner as BSG for much of its run and addresses similar themes so yeah, that one.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 22, 2019)

Also don't get your hopes up for that final season of BSG. 



Spoiler



God turns out to be, um, Bob Dylan.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 22, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also don't get your hopes up for that final season of BSG.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This I’m afraid , I thought the first 2 eps of season 3 were some of the best tv I’ve ever seen.

Then season 4 happened


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2019)

strung out said:


> You're wrong about DS9 though, it's the best TV show of all the Star Trek series, and possibly of all time on television generally.



It's pretty darn fine but it's no BSG.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 23, 2019)

Babylon 5 piloted in 1993 and Deep Space 9 also started in 1993.  They were contemporaries and when DS9 started it was naturally compared with B5 (and vice versa).  The update of Battle Star Galactica didn’t start until 2004.  The only comparison either B5 or DS9 was having with BSG was to its 1978-80 original, and both series fared well in that comparison.

The BSG reboot only arguably existed at all *because* of the success of both B5 and DS9.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2019)

kabbes said:


> The BSG reboot only arguably existed at all *because* of the success of both B5 and DS9.



Quite possibly. It's still superior to DS9 (which I love) and B5 (which is a pile of shit).


----------



## cybershot (Jul 23, 2019)

Seems Quintin doesn’t quite get the kelvin timeline thing which makes me wonder if he actually has a clue. 

Tarantino's Star Trek Script is Set in the 'Chris Pine Timeline'


----------



## emanymton (Jul 23, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Babylon 5 piloted in 1993 and Deep Space 9 also started in 1993.  They were contemporaries and when DS9 started it was naturally compared with B5 (and vice versa).  The update of Battle Star Galactica didn’t start until 2004.  The only comparison either B5 or DS9 was having with BSG was to its 1978-80 original, and both series fared well in that comparison.
> 
> The BSG reboot only arguably existed at all *because* of the success of both B5 and DS9.


BSG is 80% shit anyway.  Babylon 5 is the far better show.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 23, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Seems Quintin doesn’t quite get the kelvin timeline thing which makes me wonder if he actually has a clue.
> 
> Tarantino's Star Trek Script is Set in the 'Chris Pine Timeline'


To be honest I don’t see what he said wrong.  Isn’t the “Kelvin timeline” just the excuse for the modern films being weird? (I only watched the first one, the one with Leonard Nimoy, and thought it was fun but not canon, and not fun enough to bother with any others).


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 23, 2019)

krtek a houby said:


> It's pretty darn fine but it's no BSG.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2019)

emanymton said:


> BSG is 80% shit anyway.  Babylon 5 is the far better show.



Bablyon 5 is the floating turd that just won't go away.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 23, 2019)

krtek a houby said:


> Bablyon 5 is the floating turd that just won't go away.


I would expect that sort of opinion from you.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 23, 2019)

krtek a houby said:


> Bablyon 5 is the floating turd that just won't go away.


So say we all.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> TNG S2: E9 the Measure of a Man
> TNG S3:E26 & S4:E1 the Best of Both Worlds
> TNG S4:E11 Data’s Day
> 
> ...



Perhaps you can help me with something.

I didnt watch all TNG episodes back in the day, I watched quite a few, especially earlier in its run. I recall being vaguely impressed by episodes involving Q. So, which Q episode(s) are the best? Cheers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 23, 2019)

elbows said:


> Perhaps you can help me with something.
> 
> I didnt watch all TNG episodes back in the day, I watched quite a few, especially earlier in its run. I recall being vaguely impressed by episodes involving Q. So, which Q episode(s) are the best? Cheers.


Nice try, but I meditate now, so I’m chilled.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Nice try, but I meditate now, so I’m chilled.



I actually dont understand that answer at all. It was a sincere question about Q episodes, but it was a long time ago and I probably only saw 2 or 3 of them. And I'm not familiar with your history of talking about Star Trek on u75. So I dont know if I've put my foot in it or resemble a windup! 

In any case my question remains for you or anyone else. If I was to go back and watch one Q-related episode, which one is the best? Or if they are all shit or dodgy in some way, please explain!

Cheers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 23, 2019)

elbows said:


> I actually dont understand that answer at all. It was a sincere question about Q episodes, but it was a long time ago and I probably only saw 2 or 3 of them. And I'm not familiar with your history of talking about Star Trek on u75. So I dont know if I've put my foot in it or resemble a windup!
> 
> In any case my question remains for you or anyone else. If I was to go back and watch one Q-related episode, which one is the best? Or if they are all shit or dodgy in some way, please explain!
> 
> Cheers.


OK, my apologies. I thought you were trolling me.

My answer is: I hated Q, the concept, the way it was carried out, and every episode containing him.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 23, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, my apologies. I thought you were trolling me.
> 
> My answer is: I hated Q, the concept, the way it was carried out, and every episode containing him.


even the one where he gets the enterprise to meet the borg for the very first time ? 

Q Who (episode)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 23, 2019)

off the top of my head the episode where he toys with riker I recall fondly. S1 ep 10, 'Hide and Q'.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, my apologies. I thought you were trolling me.
> 
> My answer is: I hated Q, the concept, the way it was carried out, and every episode containing him.



Oops! Sorry about that! Like I said its been a very long time since I saw that stuff, and its probably the first episode with Q in it that I am vaguely remembering. Maybe I will hate it like you do if I go back and watch again.

I only picked on you because I saw that post where you seemed to know your episodes well enough to recommend ones. Little did I know that you were not the man for Q-tips!


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> off the top of my head the episode where he toys with riker I recall fondly. S1 ep 10, 'Hide and Q'.



Ah I probably hated Riker back then, and I probably saw every episode of the first series, so maybe I am remembering that! I will have to revisit. Cheers!


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2019)

Oh I just read the OP, where you dislike of all things Q is stated quite clearly. No wonder you thought I was on a windup.

Anyway, one thing I do know is that Brent Spiner is a funny guy. Hopefully there are no posts where you reveal that you do not think Brent Spiner is amusing!


----------



## cybershot (Jul 23, 2019)

elbows said:


> I actually dont understand that answer at all. It was a sincere question about Q episodes, but it was a long time ago and I probably only saw 2 or 3 of them. And I'm not familiar with your history of talking about Star Trek on u75. So I dont know if I've put my foot in it or resemble a windup!
> 
> In any case my question remains for you or anyone else. If I was to go back and watch one Q-related episode, which one is the best? Or if they are all shit or dodgy in some way, please explain!
> 
> Cheers.



Gotta be the Vash/Robin Hood one for me.

Worf: I am not a merry man.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Gotta be the Vash/Robin Hood one for me.
> 
> Worf: I am not a merry man.



That does sound fun and I dont think I ever saw that one.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 23, 2019)

elbows said:


> That does sound fun and I dont think I ever saw that one.



Season 4, Episode 20 "Qpid"


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2019)

emanymton said:


> I would expect that sort of opinion from you.



Logical.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 24, 2019)

Every Next Generation & Voyager Character Returning In Star Trek: Picard


----------



## cybershot (Aug 5, 2019)

Should Picard have it’s own thread as discovery does?

Picard to have prequel comic and novel


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 5, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Should Picard have it’s own thread as discovery does?
> 
> Picard to have prequel comic and novel


Go for it. It’ll probably get the traffic.  (Also, I won’t see it until it comes out in DVD, so if it’s in a dedicated thread, I’ll not be stumbling across spoilers littered through this one!)


----------



## cybershot (Sep 4, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Need to try and et hold of this.
> 
> Contains spoilers, if you intend to watch it.
> 
> What We Left Behind: Biggest Reveals From The Deep Space Nine Documentary



If you do torrents, what we left behind Blu-ray rip is now available. As you can’t buy or stream it over here, piracy seems the only option unless you want to import. 

FWIW I really enjoyed it and DS9 is probably my least favourite trek.


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 22, 2019)

Apparently Aron Eisenberg (Nog off DS9) died last night.


Aron Eisenberg’s Death Sparks Emotional Fan Reaction | Heavy.com

He was only 50.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2019)

steveo87 said:


> Apparently Aron Eisenberg (Nog off DS9) died last night.
> 
> 
> Aron Eisenberg’s Death Sparks Emotional Fan Reaction | Heavy.com
> ...


Jeez. That’s a shock. Poor guy.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 22, 2019)

After only watching the ds9 docu that I posted about a few posts above a few weeks ago which he is heavily in and no hint of illness it’s a bit of a surprise.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Sep 22, 2019)

steveo87 said:


> Apparently Aron Eisenberg (Nog off DS9) died last night.
> 
> 
> Aron Eisenberg’s Death Sparks Emotional Fan Reaction | Heavy.com
> ...


wow, i thought he was much younger


----------



## kabbes (Sep 22, 2019)

That’s so sad


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 22, 2019)

Well...apparently it's all going on with at least one writer quitting and unhappiness abounding.  Discovery-wise.  And Picard is affected.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 22, 2019)

I thought Picard had wrapped up filming and was now in post production status according to reports.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 22, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I thought Picard had wrapped up filming and was now in post production status according to reports.


Yup.


----------



## strung out (Sep 22, 2019)

DexterTCN said:


> Well...apparently it's all going on with at least one writer quitting and unhappiness abounding.  Discovery-wise.  And Picard is affected.


Is that Walter Mosley? The mixed race writer who got reprimanded for using the N word in the writers room, so quit.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 22, 2019)

strung out said:


> Is that Walter Mosley? The mixed race writer who got reprimanded for using the N word in the writers room, so quit.


well...I'm going to say yup


----------



## Lea (Sep 24, 2019)

Taken at Star Trek Convention Birmingham NEC last year. Anyone else go? We got to see the cast of Discovery do a Q&A. 

Not a fan myself but the bf is huge fan since he was young. BF watches Star Trek series on loop. Just finished Deep Space Nine and started Voyager again yesterday. He likens DS9 (his favourite) to a soap opera in space.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 27, 2019)

Lea said:


> View attachment 185044
> 
> Taken at Star Trek Convention Birmingham NEC last year. Anyone else go? We got to see the cast of Discovery do a Q&A.
> 
> Not a fan myself but the bf is huge fan since he was young. BF watches Star Trek series on loop. Just finished Deep Space Nine and started Voyager again yesterday. He likens DS9 (his favourite) to a soap opera in space.


That's how I'd try to con a girlfriend into watching it as well.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 27, 2019)

cybershot said:


> After only watching the ds9 docu that I posted about a few posts above a few weeks ago which he is heavily in and no hint of illness it’s a bit of a surprise.


He'd been ill a long time. There was a crowdfunding thing for him a while ago. Iirc he was born with one dodgy kidney, had a transplant then problems with the new one.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 27, 2019)

Lea said:


> View attachment 185044
> 
> Taken at Star Trek Convention Birmingham NEC last year. Anyone else go? We got to see the cast of Discovery do a Q&A.
> 
> Not a fan myself but the bf is huge fan since he was young. BF watches Star Trek series on loop. Just finished Deep Space Nine and started Voyager again yesterday. He likens DS9 (his favourite) to a soap opera in space.



I went to the first one at the NEC and was underwhelmed. Thankfully I'd won tickets, so didn't pay a penny, the whole thing is just one massive cash cow. Pay for a photo with this, pay for a photo with so and so, pay for so and so to sign something, pay to attend a Q&A, pay to attend a documentary showing. Very few things to see and do that didn't cost anything. Think I was maybe there for 2 hours tops and went home.

Maybe it's changed since then as no doubt would have been plenty of complaints.

Otherwise If you're prepared to throw money at other things, then it's probably worth it, if you go with a standard ticket expecting to see loads of props and stars of star trek, think again.


----------



## Lea (Sep 27, 2019)

CNT36 said:


> That's how I'd try to con a girlfriend into watching it as well.



Haha. I don't really watch much tv. He has Star Trek on every night when there's no new sci-fi stuff on Netflix. It's his happy place. After stressful day at work etc. I think it calms him down so I say to him "go on then" when he sheepishly asks if I mind. 

I've been with the bf for almost 3 years now and I think in that time he must have watched all the ST series about 3 times now. Only exception is he doesn't watch the Original Series. I've got to know the different series, characters, some of the plot lines. I know he fancies T'Pol and 7 of 9. I only dip and out of watching it. 

Talking of T'Pol and 7 of 9 who is everyone's favourite hottie in the series?


----------



## Lea (Sep 27, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I went to the first one at the NEC and was underwhelmed. Thankfully I'd won tickets, so didn't pay a penny, the whole thing is just one massive cash cow. Pay for a photo with this, pay for a photo with so and so, pay for so and so to sign something, pay to attend a Q&A, pay to attend a documentary showing. Very few things to see and do that didn't cost anything. Think I was maybe there for 2 hours tops and went home.
> 
> Maybe it's changed since then as no doubt would have been plenty of complaints.
> 
> Otherwise If you're prepared to throw money at other things, then it's probably worth it, if you go with a standard ticket expecting to see loads of props and stars of star trek, think again.



I've never to been to any convention before and felt underwhelmed too. It was very disappointing. The highlight was having a curry in Birmingham City Centre. Other than that I enjoyed the talk by the Discovery cast and also William Shatner's talk but those were quite expensive. I also liked seeing ordinary people dressed up. They really enjoyed being photographed feeling like stars themselves! I tried to get a picture signed by the the actress who plays Michael Burnham but changed my mind because it was ridiculously expensive. 

I did go to Royal Festival Hall on the South Bank a couple of years for a Star Trek experience and that was worth every penny. They had a full orchestra playing extracts from the film and TV series with a giant screen behind showing clips.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 27, 2019)

Lea said:


> I've never to been to any convention before and felt underwhelmed too. It was very disappointing. The highlight was having a curry in Birmingham City Centre. Other than that I enjoyed the talk by the Discovery cast and also William Shatner's talk but those were quite expensive. I also liked seeing ordinary people dressed up. They really enjoyed being photographed feeling like stars themselves! I tried to get a picture signed by the the actress who plays Michael Burnham but changed my mind because it was ridiculously expensive.
> 
> I did go to Royal Festival Hall on the South Bank a couple of years for a Star Trek experience and that was worth every penny. They had a full orchestra playing extracts from the film and TV series with a giant screen behind showing clips.



Yeah. The convention type things are just crap. 

The exhibition thing that was in Blackpool a year or so ago however was worth every penny if you wanted to see things from the actual show and sit on bridges/transporters and not get fleeced for anything extra other than the entrance fee. If it comes around to the UK again at any point that is well worth it. Think we were in there for over 2 hours looking at stuff.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 9, 2019)

RIP 

René Auberjonois, actor who starred in M*A*S*H*, Star Trek and Benson, dies aged 79


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2019)

RIP Odo.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2019)

My sister said "He's kicked the bucket he usually melts into".


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 9, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> My sister said "He's kicked the bucket he usually melts into".


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Dec 9, 2019)

No way - that guy was played by the same guy as the preacher in MASH? I never knew that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2019)

I hate to make this about my family group chat, but this is my two sisters:


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2019)

RIP, I always enjoyed subplots that involved him catching Quark in some act of minor criminality.


----------



## strung out (Dec 9, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> RIP, I always enjoyed subplots that involved him catching Quark in some act of minor criminality.


Usually it was a major act of criminality tbf, like Arms Dealing, accessory to murder, collaboration with war criminals etc.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 9, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Yeah. The convention type things are just crap.
> 
> The exhibition thing that was in Blackpool a year or so ago however was worth every penny if you wanted to see things from the actual show and sit on bridges/transporters and not get fleeced for anything extra other than the entrance fee. If it comes around to the UK again at any point that is well worth it. Think we were in there for over 2 hours looking at stuff.


I enjoyed that as well. I'm probably going back to Blackpool next year and I was planning to go back. Pity it's gone.


----------



## Detroit City (Dec 9, 2019)

krtek a houby said:


> RIP
> 
> René Auberjonois, actor who starred in M*A*S*H*, Star Trek and Benson, dies aged 79


that's a shame


----------



## Detroit City (Dec 9, 2019)

Lea said:


> Only exception is he doesn't watch the Original Series.


wtf ....why's that?


----------



## elbows (Dec 10, 2019)

Buddy Bradley said:


> No way - that guy was played by the same guy as the preacher in MASH? I never knew that.



In the M*A*S*H* film, not the series.


----------



## Lea (Dec 15, 2019)

Detroit City said:


> wtf ....why's that?


He thinks the story lines are a bit silly.


----------



## Detroit City (Dec 15, 2019)

Lea said:


> He thinks the story lines are a bit silly.


come on Lea, ALL Star Trek story lines are silly


----------



## Lea (Dec 15, 2019)

Detroit City said:


> come on Lea, ALL Star Trek story lines are silly


LOL. I'm not a real fan so can't really comment. Just watch because it's on the box everyday! I'm forced to live with it. He's just finished Voyager so there is a little break in between when he'll watch something else - usually a repeat of some sci-fi programme unless a new series of something has come out. Currently re-watching Another Life. Reckon the one with Scott Bakula will come on next. Haven't seen that one in a while. 

He says if it doesn't involve space ships he's not interested. I get my revenge by making him sit through RomComs with me!


----------



## Reno (Dec 15, 2019)

I watched _What We Left Behind_, a two hour documentary about DS9, which was my favourite Star Trek show. Apart from Avery Brooks, who is well presented via archive material, all actors and several of the main show runners took part and the parts which deal with reminiscing about the show is entertaining enough. It could loose half of it’s running time though which is taken up with the writers cooking up a hypothetical reunion episode, which is totally useless. The first five minutes are so cringey, they made me switch this off the first time I tried to watch this and not return to it for a month. If you were a fan, it’s worth a watch though. To the documentaries credit, it’s not all rosy reminiscing. The most interesting part addresses why Terry Farrell (Dax) left the show for its last season.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Dec 16, 2019)

Lea said:


> Currently re-watching Another Life.


God that was atrocious.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 24, 2019)

Posted this in the discovery thread but may as well here as I suspect people without access to Netflix etc ignore that thread:

Has just come to my attention that season 1 of discovery is airing on e4. Not sure how many episodes in. I assume it’s on their catch up service but could be assuming wrong. So everyone should be able to catch up a bit now as e4 is free to air channel.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 28, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Posted this in the discovery thread but may as well here as I suspect people without access to Netflix etc ignore that thread:
> 
> Has just come to my attention that season 1 of discovery is airing on e4. Not sure how many episodes in. I assume it’s on their catch up service but could be assuming wrong. So everyone should be able to catch up a bit now as e4 is free to air channel.


I noticed this and it reminded me Discovery exists. On the fourth time of trying I made it through the first episode conscious. Also made it through the second.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 16, 2020)




----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 17, 2020)

DexterTCN said:


>



Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 17, 2020)

Idris2002 said:


> Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


You need new material. It was a good joke. But I dinnae think it can take any more.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 17, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> You need new material. It was a good joke. But I dinnae think it can take any more.


Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 17, 2020)

Idris2002 said:


> Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


Ah cannae defy the laws of physics!


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 17, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah cannae defy the laws of physics!


Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 17, 2020)

Idris2002 said:


> Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


Shut up, Wesley!


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 17, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> Shut up, Wesley!


Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 17, 2020)

Idris2002 said:


> Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 17, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.


Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 17, 2020)

Idris2002 said:


> Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


You can’t fully appreciate that joke until you’ve read it in the original Klingon.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 17, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> You can’t fully appreciate that joke until you’ve read it in the original Klingon.


puqloD be'Hom reH kissed SoH?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 18, 2020)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 18, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


>


Earl grey. Hot.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 18, 2020)

I wish those were legit.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 22, 2020)

Spoilered because some people don't like being made aware of future casting. It's for the new Picard series, and it's also really quite sweet



Spoiler


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 25, 2020)

Trump unveils the new US Space Force logo.


----------



## moochedit (Jan 25, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Trump unveils the new US Space Force logo.
> 
> View attachment 196603



Wtf? Space force? Is he expecting the Klingons or Borg to attack us?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 25, 2020)

moochedit said:


> Wtf? Space force? Is he expecting the Klingons or Borg to attack us?


Klingons, surely. First.


----------



## fishfinger (Jan 25, 2020)

Space Mexicans


----------



## Detroit City (Jan 25, 2020)

moochedit said:


> Wtf? Space force? Is he expecting the Klingons or Borg to attack us?


or maybe Trelane?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 4, 2020)

To celebrate Counsellor Troi collecting her free bus pass


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 4, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


>


Son, etc., etc.


----------



## cybershot (May 16, 2020)

Guess we're getting the Enterprise years before Kirk after all.









						Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Coming to CBS All Access
					

Anson Mount, Ethan Peck, and Rebecca Romijn to reprise Star Trek: Discovery roles




					intl.startrek.com
				




[Sarcasm] Nice to see modern Star Trek continuing to make fresh new series, that aren't all based on nostalgia [/sarcasm]


----------



## agricola (May 16, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Guess we're getting the Enterprise years before Kirk after all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



it will still be better than _Picard_ was though


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 16, 2020)

All these shows/films going on at once - are any gonna directly follow the TNG/DS9/VOY timeline?


----------



## Reno (May 17, 2020)

Nine Bob Note said:


> All these shows/films going on at once - are any gonna directly follow the TNG/DS9/VOY timeline?


Only the feature films starting with the 2009 Star Trek reboot take place in an alternate timeline. All the TV series, including the recent ones, take place the timeline established by the original Star Trek series. 

...which doesn't explain why prequel series like Enterprise and Discovery and I'm presuming this new one, look technologically so much more advanced than the 60s series and why nobody is wearing mini skirts.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 17, 2020)

Reno said:


> Only the feature films starting with the 2009 Star Trek reboot take place in an alternate timeline. All the TV series, including the recent ones, take place the timeline established by the original Star Trek series.
> 
> ...which doesn't explain why prequel series like Enterprise and Discovery and I'm presuming this new one, look technologically so much more advanced than the 60s series and why nobody is wearing mini skirts.



All media was edited during the eugenics wars back in the 90s to hide the evidence of  advanced technology.


----------



## cybershot (May 17, 2020)

Nine Bob Note said:


> All these shows/films going on at once - are any gonna directly follow the TNG/DS9/VOY timeline?



the Picard series? Is the only one that’s directly gone into the future but is still built on nostalgia. I was hoping it would be a one off that would set the stage for a new weekly series set in that time frame, instead we have a second season of Picard which I think they were too keen to renew before it even aired. The first couple episodes were superb but it quickly tailed off.

Discovery is now x years into the future but.... yawn.


----------



## bmd (May 17, 2020)

cybershot said:


> the Picard series? Is the only one that’s directly gone into the future but is still built on nostalgia. I was hoping it would be a one off that would set the stage for a new weekly series set in that time frame, instead we have a second season of Picard which I think they were too keen to renew before it even aired. The first couple episodes were superb but it quickly tailed off.
> 
> Discovery is now x years into the future but.... yawn.



What did you dislike about it? I loved the theme of Picard being almost like an outcast. They did kick the arse out of it, still. Plus I really liked the more balanced gender approach. I thought it introduced some interesting characters too. I haven't really considered whether I thought it was 'good' or not. I did watch it to the end, which is usually an indication that I thought it was.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 17, 2020)

all of star trek (post TOS) is  to one degree or another  built on nostalgia.

that is what sequels are.


----------



## cybershot (May 17, 2020)

bmd said:


> What did you dislike about it? I loved the theme of Picard being almost like an outcast. They did kick the arse out of it, still. Plus I really liked the more balanced gender approach. I thought it introduced some interesting characters too. I haven't really considered whether I thought it was 'good' or not. I did watch it to the end, which is usually an indication that I thought it was.



I didn’t say I disliked it, but could have been so much better. There were just too many inconsistencies and the usual let’s do something new with an established race that somehow had never been picked up in 3 prior series (maybe 4 don’t remember them in voyager) or ever talked about that just made the whole thing like the writers don’t really give a shit.

I won’t go into too much detail here as we did agree in January to keep this thread Picard spoiler free for those without amazon prime, but I think most of the gripes were picked up by other posters in the main series thread.


----------



## cybershot (May 17, 2020)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> all of star trek (post TOS) is  to one degree or another  built on nostalgia.
> 
> that is what sequels are.



there’s plenty of spin offs for other shows films that actually expand on its universe. Modern Star Trek just rehashes what is already established and for the most part fucks with 60 years worth of lore previously created for the shits and giggles instead of boldly going somewhere new.


----------



## CNT36 (May 17, 2020)

agricola said:


> it will still be better than _Picard_ was though


They're even calling it Strange New Worlds. Strange New Worlds was a series of eleven books publishing fan fiction.  I doubt it will be as high quality fan fiction.


----------



## Reno (May 17, 2020)

cybershot said:


> there’s plenty of spin offs for other shows films that actually expand on its universe. Modern Star Trek just rehashes what is already established and for the most part fucks with 60 years worth of lore previously created for the shits and giggles instead of boldly going somewhere new.


The one time Star Trek really did something different with DS9, it was considered controversial and the show was never as popular as TNG. To many Trekkies it was what The Last Jedi was to Star Wars fanboys. I loved it my favourite ST show.


----------



## Ax^ (May 17, 2020)

Nine Bob Note said:


> All these shows/films going on at once - are any gonna directly follow the TNG/DS9/VOY timeline?




Picard is the only one currently in the main timeline

it not to bad but does not feel like a proper star trek show at least the first season


----------



## cybershot (May 17, 2020)

Reno said:


> The one time Star Trek really did something different with DS9, it was considered controversial and the show was never as popular as TNG. To many Trekkies it was what The Last Jedi was to Star Wars fanboys. I loved it my favourite ST show.



it's a marmite series but I don't think that's true. It did 7 seasons, its viewing figures were always consistent and did better than Voyager. DS9 and Enterprise probably hold up the best in modern TV binge watch standards due to the overarching storylines. 

I think most trekkies hate discovery the most, those posts on facebook always full of hate. Although most seem to be pleased about this new series. Anson Mount did do a rather good Chris Pike and was about the only decent thing about season 2 of Discovery. Not sure I wanted a series of the Enterprise before Kirk though, but TV execs see $$$s due to the fan reaction! So we get it anyway. I'm wondering if they might return to episodic fumbling around in space stories to be honest. The Orville has proved there's still a desire for that type of show. Speaking of which, what the hell happened to Season 3 of that.


----------



## Ax^ (May 17, 2020)

surely enterprise is more hated than discovery


----------



## fishfinger (May 17, 2020)

cybershot said:


> ...The Orville has proved there's still a desire for that type of show. Speaking of which, what the hell happened to Season 3 of that.


Towards the end of this year.


----------



## cybershot (May 17, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> surely enterprise is more hated than discovery



I think the problem with Enterprise was, TV was changing, and like most Trek's before it, started badly. These days you just can't afford a slow start. By the time it found it's grove, it was too late. I was one of those who hated it and gave up on it in Season 1. Re-watching it years later, I really enjoyed it.


----------



## Reno (May 17, 2020)

cybershot said:


> I think the problem with Enterprise was, TV was changing, and like most Trek's before it, started badly. These days you just can't afford a slow start. By the time it found it's grove, it was too late. I was one of those who hated it and gave up on it in Season 1. Re-watching it years later, I really enjoyed it.


...there also was THE SONG !


----------



## agricola (May 17, 2020)

Reno said:


> The one time Star Trek really did something different with DS9, it was considered controversial and the show was never as popular as TNG. To many Trekkies it was what The Last Jedi was to Star Wars fanboys. I loved it my favourite ST show.





cybershot said:


> it's a marmite series but I don't think that's true. It did 7 seasons, its viewing figures were always consistent and did better than Voyager. DS9 and Enterprise probably hold up the best in modern TV binge watch standards due to the overarching storylines.
> 
> I think most trekkies hate discovery the most, those posts on facebook always full of hate. Although most seem to be pleased about this new series. Anson Mount did do a rather good Chris Pike and was about the only decent thing about season 2 of Discovery. Not sure I wanted a series of the Enterprise before Kirk though, but TV execs see $$$s due to the fan reaction! So we get it anyway. I'm wondering if they might return to episodic fumbling around in space stories to be honest. The Orville has proved there's still a desire for that type of show. Speaking of which, what the hell happened to Season 3 of that.



I agree it was never as popular as TNG, but that says more about the quality of the audiences than the show.  It had the best writing and characterisation of any Star Trek series (Sisko and Garak especially), but it did sadly also usher in the idea of the spectacular battle with loads of ships blowing up as a plot device which has progressively ruined the franchise.   

As an aside, I was just watching "By Inferno's Light" and given that its 23 years old now it is looking very good for its age.


----------



## Reno (May 17, 2020)

DS9 was also the first Star Trek series which which had decent female characters. Jadzia Dax was my favourite character on the show and Kira was a far more complex a female lead character than had been seen on a ST series.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 17, 2020)

I'll watch anything Trek but like others here, I do wish it would boldly go forward. That's why I'm glad season 3 of Discovery will be the furthest (in terms of time) yet.

I don't get the hate for it.


----------



## agricola (May 17, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> I'll watch anything Trek but like others here, I do wish it would boldly go forward. That's why I'm glad season 3 of Discovery will be the furthest (in terms of time) yet.
> 
> I don't get the hate for it.



I don't either - season one was very good (apart from the very last episode), and although season two was less good it still had its moments.  I suppose its down to the redesign of the Klingons more than anything else.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 17, 2020)

agricola said:


> I don't either - season one was very good (apart from the very last episode), and although season two was less good it still had its moments.  I suppose its down to the redesign of the Klingons more than anything else.



Even then, I don't get why their design changes would irk, so. It wouldn't be the first time they've had a new look.

Besides, the Klingon empire isn't just one planet. There's probably a lot of diversity within the population.


----------



## CNT36 (May 18, 2020)

agricola said:


> I agree it was never as popular as TNG, but that says more about the quality of the audiences than the show.  It had the best writing and characterisation of any Star Trek series (Sisko and Garak especially), but it did sadly also usher in the idea of the spectacular battle with loads of ships blowing up as a plot device which has progressively ruined the franchise.
> 
> As an aside, I was just watching "By Inferno's Light" and given that its 23 years old now it is looking very good for its age.


Such a good two-parter. Really goes up a gear and changes everything.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2020)

Eventually wiped out due to the work of the Voyager crew.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2020)

I thought it was spelled phage, like the eaters.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 17, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought it was spelled phage, like the eaters.


You missed the most egregious error. It wasn't wiped out by the Voyager crew but off screen by that Think Tank that wanted Seven to join. 



danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 222639
> 
> Eventually wiped out due to the work of the Voyager crew.



Is it coconut based or coconut flavoured? I don't want the shits.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 17, 2020)

I don't want to end up feeling like this guy.


----------



## Detroit City (Jul 17, 2020)

I re-watched ST:TWOK for the 10th time.  Great movie.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought it was spelled phage, like the eaters.


It’s a pun. Pun.


----------



## Leafster (Jul 17, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought it was spelled phage, like the eaters.


And that yoghurt is actually pronounced _Fa-yeh_


----------



## strung out (Jul 17, 2020)

New Star Trek series Lower Decks airs on August 6th! Trailer here:


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 17, 2020)

not looking fantastic.

I think it  doesn't  have the right amount of  seriousness  to  make the silliness work.


although  the  cleaning the holodeck  bit made me smile.

"Ewww  Reg was using this last!"


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 17, 2020)

I think it looks like it might be ok. You can never quite tell with the trailer, I can't imagine they would want to pack that with serious bits. The way cartoons are these days I'm feeling mildly positive.


----------



## Chz (Jul 17, 2020)

It looks a lot like Final Space though. That was pretty good. Wonder if there are some shared people on the animation teams.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 19, 2020)

Way too shouty for me.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 10, 2020)

Saw first ep of lower decks.

not great but not trash so far. some nice references but need to see where it goes thematically.

may well do a solar opposites and be mostly ok but have one or two killer episodes.

having the 20-30min eps really helps casual watching.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 10, 2020)

love 7 of K9.  also we did well with show themes.










takes faith of the heart out back along with the shotgun


----------



## agricola (Aug 11, 2020)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Saw first ep of lower decks.
> 
> not great but not trash so far. some nice references but need to see where it goes thematically.
> 
> ...


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 13, 2020)




----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 13, 2020)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Saw first ep of lower decks.
> 
> not great but not trash so far. some nice references but need to see where it goes thematically.
> 
> ...


Son


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 15, 2020)

Idris2002 said:


> Son



That material is almost old enough to be my dad.

Also do you really want hear about kinky geek sex?

Darmok and Jelad in the bedroom.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 15, 2020)

Just popping in to check something.

Would I be correct in thinking that Trekkies are
more or less agreed that the Picard series was... suboptimal?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 15, 2020)

I would say it wasn't perfect, but  really  what ever is?

I think I probably place it higher  than most first seasons of trek in terms of general quality.  I think it  is  feeling  like a different kind of star trek.   

TNG through Enterprise  had an evolving  but  similar  style  and this is  very diffrent.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 15, 2020)

8ball said:


> Just popping in to check something.
> 
> Would I be correct in thinking that Trekkies are
> more or less agreed that the Picard series was... suboptimal?



It was fine. Didn't seem to upset the haters as much as STD does...


----------



## 8ball (Aug 15, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> It was fine. Didn't seem to upset the haters as much as STD does...



I never saw that.  I quite liked Picard as a bit of a nostalgia thing, but can see how proper Trekkies might feel let down.

I’m getting a bit long in the tooth to get angry about TV shows tbf.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 15, 2020)

8ball said:


> I never saw that.  I quite liked Picard as a bit of a nostalgia thing, but can see how proper Trekkies might feel let down.
> 
> I’m getting a bit long in the tooth to get angry about TV shows tbf.



Liked both shows, they are very differently paced and with the Picard one, a lot of nostalgia.

There's supposed to be a few more spinoffs in the pipeline, but with the virus and restrictions on production and filming, it may be some time before we see them.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 15, 2020)

I actually liked Picard but I’m no Trekkie.  But despite liking it, I totally understand why the real Trekkies wouldn’t having seen this



I really like the Mr Plinkett reviews and am happy to have them on in the background for 90 minutes whilst I do the housework or something.  But I can’t expect anybody else to devote that time to an esoteric subject.  So let me just say that he surgically takes apart the ethos of the show and how and why it stands in contrast to everything that Trek has always been.  The first few minutes kind of summarise the problem anyway, if you can be arsed to watch that much.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 15, 2020)

I liked Picard, but I do have to say I’m not keen on money coming into the post-scarcity utopia. Mercenaries? In Federation territory? Paid by Jean Luc? With what?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 15, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> . Mercenaries? In Federation territory? Paid by Jean Luc? With what?


Bottles of wine of course.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 15, 2020)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Bottles of wine of course.


Yeah, that’s what he wins Raffi over with, so I guess he could pay Puss in Boots with them too.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 15, 2020)

kabbes said:


> I actually liked Picard but I’m no Trekkie.  But despite liking it, I totally understand why the real Trekkies wouldn’t having seen this
> 
> 
> 
> I really like the Mr Plinkett reviews and am happy to have them on in the background for 90 minutes whilst I do the housework or something.  But I can’t expect anybody else to devote that time to an esoteric subject.  So let me just say that he surgically takes apart the ethos of the show and how and why it stands in contrast to everything that Trek has always been.  The first few minutes kind of summarise the problem anyway, if you can be arsed to watch that much.




Their recent re:view giving their top 5 TNG episodes was a nice glimpse back at what made for the better episodes of that show.

It's been so long since I've watched TNG that I had kinda forgotten.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 15, 2020)

O


kabbes said:


> I actually liked Picard but I’m no Trekkie.  But despite liking it, I totally understand why the real Trekkies wouldn’t having seen this
> 
> 
> 
> I really like the Mr Plinkett reviews and am happy to have them on in the background for 90 minutes whilst I do the housework or something.  But I can’t expect anybody else to devote that time to an esoteric subject.  So let me just say that he surgically takes apart the ethos of the show and how and why it stands in contrast to everything that Trek has always been.  The first few minutes kind of summarise the problem anyway, if you can be arsed to watch that much.



with a huge amount of effort I got a couple of minutes into that!  I learned nothing, except a guy with an annoying voice was unhappy.  God, I hate YouTube.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 15, 2020)

It may or may not help to know that the annoying voice is on purpose.  Mr Plinkett is a “character” played (in these reviews) by Mike Stoklasa.  Many people hate Mr Plinkett.  Doesn’t stop the analysis being highly insightful though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 15, 2020)

kabbes said:


> It may or may not help to know that the annoying voice is on purpose.  Mr Plinkett is a “character” played (in these reviews) by Mike Stoklasa.  Many people hate Mr Plinkett.  Doesn’t stop the analysis being highly insightful though.


If you enjoy it, that’s great. I’m afraid it’s not for me though.

(I couldn’t watch Rick and Morty because of the voice either).


----------



## kabbes (Aug 15, 2020)

Oh look, Wikipedia contains some great pseud stuff about Plinkett:

“But aside from raw catharsis, Kirbach claims that Plinkett's insanity is also a critique of the film industry itself. By fictionalizing his critic, Stoklasa constructs a character who is unable to speak at a safe distance from the text he analyzes. "Plinkett becomes the figure of a consumer culture that has been force-fed Hollywood schlock beyond its carrying capacity," Kirbach writes.[25] And further:



> Stoklasa's major conceit—that someone would have to be "crazy" to watch movies the way Plinkett does—also implies a barely hidden inverse: that the film industry has induced a consumerist fantasy in people who don't watch movies this way. Plinkett's obscenity and jokiness are without a doubt designed to garner viewership, but they are also Stoklasa's apology for—or defense against—a culture that already construes his level of passion as pathological. This central irony leads us to question what is actually more insane: the consumer who rejects the expressions of a massive culture industry, or the massive culture industry itself. Plinkett satirizes the kind of consumer such a system generates: psychotic, sexist, homicidal.[24]”


So there you go, Danny.  You’re wrong.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 15, 2020)

kabbes said:


> Oh look, Wikipedia contains some great pseud stuff about Plinkett:
> 
> “But aside from raw catharsis, Kirbach claims that Plinkett's insanity is also a critique of the film industry itself. By fictionalizing his critic, Stoklasa constructs a character who is unable to speak at a safe distance from the text he analyzes. "Plinkett becomes the figure of a consumer culture that has been force-fed Hollywood schlock beyond its carrying capacity," Kirbach writes.[25] And further:
> 
> ...


I am a man of perpetual uncertainty, tortured by doubt. But having read that, for the first time in my life I am utterly convinced I was right about something.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 15, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> I am a man of perpetual uncertainty, tortured by doubt. But having read that, for the first time in my life I am utterly convinced I was right about something.


Stoklasa and Rich Evans did some episode reviews as well in their real also pretty annoying voices. 
I found the show a little boring, struggled with some of the characters including Picard and so much went nowhere. I like that it starter slow but it built to nothing. All the Borg reclamation project stuff was a waste of time just a familiar backdrop. There could have been an interesting story to tell with Hugh and Seven possibly on opposite sides. Picard getting a new body and the whole ending was cringe. The money thing was annoying. On the fringes of the federation or outside the borders? Fine. On Earth? Sisko's heaven? Fuck off. Even the Ferengi were moving towards social democracy twenty years before this. What is up with the Romulans? The last shot of the crew on the bridge just jarred. They're not off to explore they'll just find some poor buggers to shout at for ten hours. 

I have a lot more if it is placed in context of the rest of Star Trek and you expect consistency. Picard's sudden onset you have one two parter to live illness was bad enough anyway but worse if you remember The Next Generation. The brain issue they mention was first found by Doctor Crusher. She looked for it because Picard was quantum leaping in to his own future/past. Future Picard was suffering from an Alzheimer's like illness. It lead to a lot of the future crew members being sceptical of Picard because of this slow debilitating disease. In this it comes from nowhere and he'll be dead by lunch.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 15, 2020)

Worth watching if you have time to kill.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 15, 2020)

That did make me want to check some of those episodes out again.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 15, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Worth watching if you have time to kill.



I've been waiting for the wife to have an early night to watch those.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 15, 2020)

It's a good list. It's more a list of great episodes that demonstrate aspects of trek rather a list of all the most dramatic or action packed.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 15, 2020)

It is a good list - was pleased to see Cause and Effect on there, as that's a goto episode whenever I realise I haven't seen Trek in ages. And no Inner Light! Fucking win.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 21, 2020)

This deepfake mixup of  original trek and the kelvin timeline is kinda cool.


----------



## strung out (Dec 10, 2020)

There's a good episode of a podcast I listen to, with a marxist analysis of the DS9 story Bar Association, the episode where Rom and his fellow workers form a union to negotiate better terms with their boss.









						Primitive Culture 99: Workers of All Worlds Unite
					

A Marxist analysis of “Bar Association,” with Will Nguyen.  We take a look at the DS9 episode “Bar Association” from a Marxist perspective.




					www.trek.fm
				




Lots of interesting associated chat about the Star Trek universe generally, and how it deals with economics, class and solidarity.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 10, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Worth watching if you have time to kill.



They mentioned how old they were when tng first came out... Fuck me they look like shit. I'm 5 years older than them and look about 5 years younger.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 10, 2020)

Idaho said:


> They mentioned how old they were when tng first came out... Fuck me they look like shit. I'm 5 years older than them and look about 5 years younger.



They've really aged!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 18, 2021)

Mike and Rich are talking about TNG again


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2021)

Currently watching that

I was sure conspiracy was from like season 2 or 3


----------



## cybershot (Mar 18, 2021)

They managed to talk for almost 90 minutes about season one. I will watch later. I hope it’s 90 minutes of how terrible most episodes were.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 18, 2021)

cybershot said:


> They managed to talk for almost 90 minutes about season one. I will watch later. I hope it’s 90 minutes of how terrible most episodes were.



Mostly, but there's an odd 10 minute tangent in the middle about how everything you like is shit.

I can tell late TNG from early, but that's about it, and mostly by looking at Riker.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2021)

cybershot said:


> They managed to talk for almost 90 minutes about season one. I will watch later. I hope it’s 90 minutes of how terrible most episodes were.


It was trying to find the best episodes but there was a heavy acknowledgement of how shit season 1 was.

They say it almost like this was tng but from an alternative universe.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 18, 2021)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Mike and Rich are talking about TNG again



Even when they are not talking about it Mike is still probably talking about it.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 20, 2021)

Idaho said:


> They mentioned how old they were when tng first came out... Fuck me they look like shit. I'm 5 years older than them and look about 5 years younger.



If I could argue about Star Trek (and Farscape and Blake's Seven and Babylon 5 and Doctor Who - Not Star Wars, he's killed that for me) over the dishes for the rest of my natural with Mike, I wouldn't care


----------



## cybershot (Mar 20, 2021)

I hadn’t realised they had also followed up their top 5 episodes with another top 5 making it a top 10/20 or something.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 9, 2021)

A new film is on the way in what is an otherwise pointless announcement.









						Paramount Studios Announces New Star Trek Movie Release Date
					

Here's what we know.




					intl.startrek.com


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 23, 2021)

I just realised that star trek the original series first aired 15 years before I was born. I'm now about to hit 40.

I was thinking how  TOS feel much older than TNG  but now  I just don't know what to think.

It's not like I didn't know this on some levels but  this still kinda blows my mind.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 23, 2021)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I just realised that star trek the original series first aired 15 years before I was born. I'm now about to hit 40.
> 
> I was thinking how  TOS feel much older than TNG  but now  I just don't know what to think.
> 
> It's not like I didn't know this on some levels but  this still kinda blows my mind.



Fascinating


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 23, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Fascinating


Also highly illogical


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 23, 2021)

Time seems to speed up and get muddled as  the ageing process gets well and truly underway.

Remember as if it were only yesterday, the thrill of renting the latest DS9 VHS soon as they came into the store. And yet... and yet it feels like aeons ago.


----------



## strung out (May 5, 2021)

This has blown my mind


----------



## Pickman's model (May 5, 2021)

strung out said:


> This has blown my mind



i thought that gag in of&h must have come from somewhere else


----------



## cybershot (May 12, 2021)




----------



## CNT36 (May 12, 2021)

cybershot said:


>



I just identified an episode of Star Trek from a muted pixelated clip of two main characters sat down talking in under a  second. New PB.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 19, 2021)

*This *is really good


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 28, 2021)

Maybe the wrong thread to ask this, but I couldn’t find a TNG specific thread.

It’s been a long, long time since I’ve watched The Next Generation but due to a Netflix autoplay incident I found myself engrossed in one yesterday and it reminded me what a fine tv series it was.

Can any TNG fans recommend me some of the best episodes, because there are 7 series on Netflix and let’s be honest they’re not all great.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 28, 2021)

The Next Generation Episode Guide
					

Below is a rated list of every episode of The Next Generation, letting you know which episodes we think are worth checking out if you are new to Star Trek. **BUT** if you’d like to do a quick…




					www.letswatchstartrek.com


----------



## Reno (Jul 28, 2021)

MrCurry said:


> Maybe the wrong thread to ask this, but I couldn’t find a TNG specific thread.
> 
> It’s been a long, long time since I’ve watched The Next Generation but due to a Netflix autoplay incident I found myself engrossed in one yesterday and it reminded me what a fine tv series it was.
> 
> Can any TNG fans recommend me some of the best episodes, because there are 7 series on Netflix and let’s be honest they’re not all great.


My favorite TNG episode is Yesterday’s Enterprise from season 3, which also was when the series finally took off. Most of the first two seasons can be skipped.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 28, 2021)

Reno said:


> Most of the first two seasons can be skipped.


Except “Measure of a Man”, which must not be.


----------



## Reno (Jul 28, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Except “Measure of a Man”, which must not be.


There is a small number of decent episodes in seasons 1&2 but my only attempt to rewatch TNG failed because the first two season are like chewing though flannel. I bought the entire series on Blu-ray in a sale and then sold it again. I wished they kept Dr. Pulaski though.


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 28, 2021)

Thanks guys, that gives me something to go on and the link cybershot provided is particularly excellent


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 28, 2021)

Best of both worlds , are a great 2 parter from the earlier days and pretty much anything with 'Q' in the title will be worth a watch.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 28, 2021)

ruffneck23 said:


> pretty much anything with 'Q' in the title will be worth a watch.


I think the opposite.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 28, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I think the opposite.


Oh well ,that is  such a shame.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 28, 2021)

ruffneck23 said:


> Oh well ,that is  such a shame.


The regularity he turns up in this and other subsequent Trek, yes it is.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 28, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> The regularity he turns up in this and other subsequent Trek, yes it is.


your opinion is not gospel, ok so you you dont like it, the OP was asking for opinions, you are not the only person on these boards with a an opinion, so good for you that you dont like them. I do


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 28, 2021)

ruffneck23 said:


> your opinion is not gospel, ok so you you dont like it, the OP was asking for opinions, you are not the only person on these boards with a an opinion, so good for you that you dont like them. I do


I know. I was only giving my opinion.  I didn’t say mine trumped yours.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 28, 2021)

MrCurry said:


> Maybe the wrong thread to ask this, but I couldn’t find a TNG specific thread.
> 
> It’s been a long, long time since I’ve watched The Next Generation but due to a Netflix autoplay incident I found myself engrossed in one yesterday and it reminded me what a fine tv series it was.
> 
> Can any TNG fans recommend me some of the best episodes, because there are 7 series on Netflix and let’s be honest they’re not all great.



the Drumhead is a fine episode


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 28, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> the Drumhead is a fine episode


Thanks, I’ll give it a watch!


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 28, 2021)

be prewarned its not the most action orientated episode more a picard heavy court room episode

with an old 50's starlet giving it some welly


----------



## emanymton (Jul 28, 2021)

I'd say just watch Babyon 5 instead but it's not on Netfix. But then I still say you should watch Babyon 5 instead.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 28, 2021)

Dp


----------



## Reno (Jul 28, 2021)

emanymton said:


> I'd say just watch Babyon 5 instead but it's not on Netfix. But then I still say you should watch Babyon 5 instead.


I've been told that a gazillion times when the talk turns to Star Trek, but only made it to the end of season 1 and then gave up. My tolerance for ultra cheap production values is fairly low and the genius fans go on about didn't materialise in that season for me.

I also have a feeling it may not have dated well. The fact that it was a science fiction series which told one continuing story serialised was new than, but now thats what almost all series are like.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 28, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> the Drumhead is a fine episode


Watch the pilot and then skip over the rest of Season's 1 and 2 and the first three episodes of Season 3 then carry on from there, Episode 15 of Season 3 is 'Yesterday's Enterprise' and one of the best. The final episode 'Best of Both Worlds Part I' and the first episode of Season 4 'The Best of Both Worlds Part II' are also highly rated. Anything with Ensign Ro (Michelle Forbes) or Guinan (Whoopi Goldberg) in it is usually pretty good. Anything with Wesley Crusher (Wil Wheaton) is usually pretty dire.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 28, 2021)

if you watch any show but TNG from the era it show be  Space Above and Beyond not babyon 5




also not on netflix :/


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 28, 2021)

See the Red Letter Media top 5/10s from YT posted above. They've made an effort to appeal to casual viewers with their lists and not just fan boys.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 28, 2021)

are you on about space above and beyond please linky cannie seem to find it


----------



## cybershot (Jul 28, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I think the opposite.



I think the problem with q episodes is you kind of need to watch them for continuity purposes.

Especially if you intend to watch forthcoming season 2 of ‘Picard’

it’s what the list above I linked too achieves for the longer watch list. Some eps are pants but if there’s a 2nd side story involving character development or introduction of a new reoccurring character. You kind of need to watch it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 28, 2021)

cybershot said:


> I think the problem with q episodes is you kind of need to watch them for continuity purposes.
> 
> Especially if you intend to watch forthcoming season 2 of ‘Picard’
> 
> it’s what the list above I linked too achieves for the longer watch list. Some eps are pants but if there’s a 2nd side story involving character development or introduction of a new reoccurring character. You kind of need to watch it.


He does introduce the Borg.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 28, 2021)

Reno said:


> I've been told that a gazillion times when the talk turns to Star Trek, but only made it to the end of season 1 and then gave up. My tolerance for ultra cheap production values is fairly low and the genius fans go on about didn't materialise in that season for me.
> 
> I also have a feeling it may not have dated well. The fact that it was a science fiction series which told one continuing story serialised was new than, but now thats what almost all series are like.


I think one of the reasons it works as well as it does for me is because it was stuck between telling one long continuous story and being episodic. So the big plots just kind of sit there in the background for the first series or 2 developing slowly and being hinted at. It makes it feel more real I guess, you get used to the world a bit so you appreciate the changes when they come. Plus it clearly helps that the end point was known from the beginning and not just made up as they went along like of lot of others seem to do.

I can understand people being a but turned off by series 1, I think it works well as part of the whole but I can see that to a modern viewer without the big picture it could seem bit meh.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 28, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> He does introduce the Borg.



he also book ends the first episode and final episode's

"the test is never over"

seems a reason to have in a picard related show


----------



## emanymton (Jul 28, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> if you watch any show but TNG from the era it show be  Space Above and Beyond not babyon 5
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But it only got 1 series. From memory I liked it but it is not a complete story, it's like reading a book and finding every page after the first 2 chapters are blank.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 28, 2021)

Reno said:


> There is a small number of decent episodes in seasons 1&2 but my only attempt to rewatch TNG failed because the first two season are like chewing though flannel. I bought the entire series on Blu-ray in a sale and then sold it again. I wished they kept Dr. Pulaski though.



I find that any series with a difficult first season or two is better watched with a friend. I've got one who is also into TV sci-fi, and ropey episodes are much more bearable when you can take them apart together.



emanymton said:


> I'd say just watch Babyon 5 instead but it's not on Netfix. But then I still say you should watch Babyon 5 instead.



As if I haven't already watched all of the Babylon 5 seasons about a dozen times. I love it, despite the cheap production values, the acting talent is great (RIP Andreas Katsulas), but there are just more seasons of TNG to watch, especially if you include DS9 and Voyager.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 28, 2021)

aye *shakes fist at Fox


but did Bab 5 have a seriously satisfying ending

it was more just a more political TNG that anything else 

it had space napoleon ffs


----------



## strung out (Jul 28, 2021)

John de Lancie playing Q is excellent, the problem is that half the Q episodes are rubbish, while the other half are kind of universe breaking in some way.

If you do watch one Q episode, make it Tapestry, which is excellent.


----------



## T & P (Jul 28, 2021)

MrCurry said:


> Maybe the wrong thread to ask this, but I couldn’t find a TNG specific thread.
> 
> It’s been a long, long time since I’ve watched The Next Generation but due to a Netflix autoplay incident I found myself engrossed in one yesterday and it reminded me what a fine tv series it was.
> 
> Can any TNG fans recommend me some of the best episodes, because there are 7 series on Netflix and let’s be honest they’re not all great.


Can’t remember the name and can’t be bothered right now to check the article about best episodes that was posted right after your post, but the one when they get trapped in a time loop and keep dying but on every new instance they start to get deja vu flashes and gradually work out what’s going on was fucking superb.

For lovers of moral philosophy there are plenty of thought-provoking episodes. The one where No 1 is on trial on a Klingon planet accused (IIRC) of killing a love rival was brilliant. There’s also the bizarre but ultimately satisfying theatrical one where Picard is caught in the middle of a Greek tragedy-like conflict between a sun and moon entities.

And as the pure action/ thriller ones go, the ones when Picard get captured by the Borg were fucking ace.


----------



## T & P (Jul 28, 2021)

Those involving Data’s evil twin are also good. And the various costume drama ones taking place in the holodeck are fantastic fun


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 28, 2021)

and there is the one with the fucking flute


----------



## T & P (Jul 28, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> and there is the one with the fucking flute


I can’t remember what that one is, but I suspect footage from it was used for the beginning of this Xmas classic


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 29, 2021)

I'm rewatching the dominion war in DS9. It's so fucking goooooooooood ☺️


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 29, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> He does introduce the Borg.


The borg are just cybemen who are into piercings


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 29, 2021)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> The borg are just cybemen who are into piercings


Well, there's no need to go full tin man when you can just accessorise.


----------



## strung out (Jul 29, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> and there is the one with the fucking flute


The Inner Light, which is excellent, although like many TNG episodes, suffers from the fact that the main character suffers a life changing experience, which they will have to deal with for the rest of their life, but is completely forgotten by the next episode and never mentioned again. 

Not just restricted to Star Trek mind, but particularly obvious in TNG and Voyager.


----------



## Chz (Jul 29, 2021)

T & P said:


> Those involving Data’s evil twin are also good. And the various costume drama ones taking place in the holodeck are fantastic fun


"Sir, I protest. I am *not* a merry man!" 
That was fucking awful and wonderful at the same time.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 30, 2021)

emanymton said:


> But it only got 1 series. From memory I liked it but it is not a complete story, it's like reading a book and finding every page after the first 2 chapters are blank.


they had to make some hasty changes to the season one finale when they found out they wouldn't be getting renewed.
it's not perfect but I think it works as an ending. a bleak, horrible, "war is hell" ending message


Spoiler: spoilers for 30 year old tv show



all of your friends are dead. war is ultimately a futile waste of life. attempts to end it and make a better peace will be sabotaged by powerful interests with their narrow self interest. there will be no happy ending to the stories started in ep 1, and there was never a chance there would be.





Ax^ said:


> and there is the one with the fucking flute


The Inner Light. from season 5. one of the greatest individual pieces of sci-fi of any series ever.


----------



## glitch hiker (Jul 30, 2021)

Cerv said:


> The Inner Light. from season 5. one of the greatest individual pieces of sci-fi of any series ever.


Yeah but it's not shades of grey though, is it. 

Check and mate.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 30, 2021)

You fucking monster even joking about that


----------



## RedRedRose (Aug 24, 2021)

Finished Picard.

Started off promising enough, but in the end poor characters, dodgy acting and a wonky story left me a little underwhelmed.


----------



## strung out (Sep 6, 2021)

Very much enjoyed this piece referencing one of my favourite episodes of Star Trek. I lost all respect for Worf when he crossed that picket line


----------



## kabbes (Oct 8, 2021)

The Pakled are the best invention in all of Star Trek

“Welcome to the Pakled spaceship, the Pakled.  I am Rebner.”
“Yes Rebner, we have met several times.”


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 9, 2021)

So i asked, a couple of pages back, for recommendations of a few of the best TNG episodes and a few people were kind enough to chip in with suggestions, all of which I enjoyed watching (thanks).

Well goddamn if I haven’t got myself hooked back into TNG after maybe 20 years of not having watched it!  I’ve been amazed by how well it’s aged and how it doesn’t seem half as dated as I had remembered it, back when I first left it behind and switched my affections to Voyager.  I’ve been working my way thru series 4&5 mostly, with a few choice series 3 episodes too.

Seems like the writers had a lot of latitude on TNG.  Last night was the classic when the Alien turns to Riker in the shuttlecraft and says to Riker “Commander, tell me about your sexual organs”…!!  And I also have Lt Cmdr Data’s completely deadpan delivery of “she kissed me passionately in the torpedo bay” stuck in my head!! 

Overall I’ve been reminded why I enjoyed TNG so much on first viewing back in my early twenties.  A very pleasant trip down memory lane


----------



## Chz (Oct 9, 2021)

kabbes said:


> The Pakled are the best invention in all of Star Trek
> 
> “Welcome to the Pakled spaceship, the Pakled.  I am Rebner.”
> “Yes Rebner, we have met several times.”


I'm impressed at how they engage in utterly rampant fanboy-ism, while still actually having a plot to follow. Normally something that you need to watch twice just to pick up all the fleeting references wears thin after a while, but the show just gets stronger IMO. Though to be fair, I'm quite a fan of Archer which takes self-referential gags to a whole new level.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Nov 8, 2021)

A random thought popped into my head last night - do they ever mention in any of the ST series what they do with the bodily waste generated onboard by humans and presumably any alien species onboard?  I don't remember it being mentioned in any of the episodes I've watched.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> A random thought popped into my head last night - do they ever mention in any of the ST series what they do with the bodily waste generated onboard by humans and presumably any alien species onboard?  I don't remember it being mentioned in any of the episodes I've watched.


It’s recycled in Enterprise.


----------



## Santino (Nov 8, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> A random thought popped into my head last night - do they ever mention in any of the ST series what they do with the bodily waste generated onboard by humans and presumably any alien species onboard?  I don't remember it being mentioned in any of the episodes I've watched.


Presumably it's recycled in a reverse replicator.


----------



## Santino (Nov 8, 2021)

An experienced transporter chief can just beam your waste directly out of you.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 8, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s recycled in Enterprise.


Captain's log, etc


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Nov 8, 2021)

Santino said:


> An experienced transporter chief can just beam your waste directly out of you.


Save them stocking up on toilet roll when they visit the shops I suppose.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 8, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Save them stocking up on toilet roll when they visit the shops I suppose.



No more Klingons


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 8, 2021)

I love Star Trek. Started off watching the original series on Netflix and am now on the Next Generation and loving it (though I did used to watch the original series on BBC 2 years ago). I'm guessing Deep Space Nine comes after TNG?


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 8, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> I love Star Trek. Started off watching the original series on Netflix and am now on the Next Generation and loving it (though I did used to watch the original series on BBC 2 years ago). I'm guessing Deep Space Nine comes after TNG?



During. Think that the first season was up and running during the last TNG season...


----------



## Carvaged (Nov 8, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> I love Star Trek. Started off watching the original series on Netflix and am now on the Next Generation and loving it (though I did used to watch the original series on BBC 2 years ago). I'm guessing Deep Space Nine comes after TNG?



Yeah DS9, followed by Voyager. There's a bit of overlap with TNG > DS9 > Voy so you do get a few crew cameos in each series.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> I love Star Trek. Started off watching the original series on Netflix and am now on the Next Generation and loving it (though I did used to watch the original series on BBC 2 years ago). I'm guessing Deep Space Nine comes after TNG?


Yes it does.  Well, it actually started during the run of TNG and ran concurrently. You’ll notice when.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 8, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes it does.  Well, it actually started during the run of TNG and ran concurrently. You’ll notice when.


yeh i don't think i give away a huge secret when i say chief o'brien is in both


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 8, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh i don't think i give away a huge secret when i say chief o'brien is in both



And the other fella, but that would be a spoiler


----------



## Graymalkin (Nov 9, 2021)

> A random thought popped into my head last night - do they ever mention in any of the ST series what they do with the bodily waste generated onboard by humans and presumably any alien species onboard?  I don't remember it being mentioned in any of the episodes I've watched.


All excess waste matter is thrown into (IIRC) a 'replimat' and used as base materials for the replicators.  It was actually brought up directly for some reason in the last season of Discovery. The silly part about this scene is that it's presumably standard practice on any ship that uses replicators so the green ladys response is kind of odd.  Maybe 'Lower Decks' could have done a bit with this piece of ST lore.  There were a couple of episodes of ST:Voyager where the Kazon attempted to steal replicator technology from Voyager because having to carry provisions with them limited their military efforts.


----------



## glitch hiker (Nov 9, 2021)

What a metaphor.

Back in the day, a cup of earl grey hot wasn't Picard piss reconstituted. It was that thing space explorers drank when they gazed upon the cosmos in wonderment.

Now it's just Captain Kirk's recyled _shit_ because ST had to get all edgy, with Admirals saying "FUCK!" and robots rose up against their oppressors and slaughtered them all.

We just can't have nice things anymore.


----------



## Santino (Nov 9, 2021)

Remember when Riker said 'bastards' in Star Trek: Insurrection?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 9, 2021)

Santino said:


> Remember when Riker said 'bastards' in Star Trek: Insurrection?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 9, 2021)

Santino said:


> Remember when Riker said 'bastards' in Star Trek: Insurrection?


data said shit in Generations. Both of these are mid level swears though, I bet nobody in starfleet ever said cunt


----------



## fishfinger (Nov 9, 2021)

DotCommunist said:


> data said shit in Generations. Both of these are mid level swears though, I bet nobody in starfleet ever said cunt


This comes close...



> In 2370, holographic Sigmund Freud wanted to give Data an appointment for "next Tuesday". (TNG: "Phantasms")



Tuesday


----------



## Carvaged (Nov 9, 2021)

Well I distinctly remember when everyone used to say "topoermorningtoyaguvnor" and doffed their caps and curtseyed to m'lady before heading off down the mines. And now look where we are. There's no hope for mankind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 9, 2021)

DotCommunist said:


> data said shit in Generations. Both of these are mid level swears though, I bet nobody in starfleet ever said cunt


sure they do in ds9 - there's some suspiciously long pauses between cunt and stable on that station


----------



## Santino (Nov 9, 2021)

Carvaged said:


> Well I distinctly remember when everyone used to say "topoermorningtoyaguvnor" and doffed their caps and curtseyed to m'lady before heading off down the mines. And now look where we are. There's no hope for mankind.


That did actually happen when Janeway when holodecking in magical Irish land.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 10, 2021)

Data gets it right


----------



## MrCurry (Nov 10, 2021)

Data gets something else


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 10, 2021)

Last time I was kissed in the torpedo bay I suffered a hull breach and had to eject the warp core.


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Well...this is a piss take...


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 17, 2021)

holding it back to use as part of the sales pitch when they bring paramount + here I suppose. People will just torrent.


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Oh, 100%. It just seems like they've shot themselves in the foot.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 17, 2021)

Paramount should keep it's new shit free to air and contract the Redlettermedia guys to review the old stuff on a subscription service, as I know what I want to watch


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 17, 2021)

steveo87 said:


> Well...this is a piss take...


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 17, 2021)

what utter wankers 2 days before launch and let it been promoted 

robbing bastard's

*puts on pirate hat


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 17, 2021)

If it’s possible to have a free trial of Paramount+ for a month, I’ll wait until enough shows have aired that I can binge the series within a month and set up a trial month then cancel.

If it isn’t, then I’ll probably not bother. There’s too many paid platforms. I can’t even be arsed with the one I’ve got.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 17, 2021)

it a wierd business model to piss off all you internatinal fans 2 days before the launch of the season people are waiting for

if you have any star trek stuff left to watch on netflix i'd get around to it cannot see that staying on the platform the minute paramount+ starts next feb 

not sure if i'd bring myself to play another 10 pound a month to watch old series of star trek again

just record them off the old telly box


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 17, 2021)

Resistance is futile


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 17, 2021)

nah people should boycot paramount +


and hope it dies on the international side of things

every tv studio trying to take on the netflix model


we should all go back to Torrents and the like


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 17, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> nah people should boycot paramount +
> 
> 
> and hope it dies on the international side of things
> ...



Nostalgic for the days of seeing it on RTE


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 17, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Resistance is futile


I’ll probably watch Voyager again then cancel Netflix.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 17, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ll probably watch Voyager again then cancel Netflix.



Make it so


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 17, 2021)

Ah fuck. Star Trek is the only thing I watch on Netflix. This sucks.


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 17, 2021)

I'm probably repeating myself a bit, but it seems such a stupid thing to do. 
If nothing else, you lose half of your viewership because you make it impossible to (legally) watch it. 

Plus it's not financially feasible to subscribe to _all_ the streaming services. So people, IMO, naturally gravitate towards the 'bigger' services, which is to say Netflix and Prime (and probably Disney+). I genuinely can't think of another 'Paramount show' other than ST, so why would I subscribe to it? 

It just seems like an extremely badly thought out strategy that's been implemented equally as incompetently.


----------



## MrCurry (Nov 17, 2021)

Good grief. Paramount+ 

They might as well brand it Trekkie Tax. I won’t be buying.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 17, 2021)




----------



## MickiQ (Nov 17, 2021)

MrCurry said:


> Good grief. Paramount+
> 
> They might as well brand it Trekkie Tax. I won’t be buying.


But I will be stealing, probably wait till Friday to give people chance to get good quality copies onto Pirate Bay


----------



## MrCurry (Nov 17, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> But I will be stealing, probably wait till Friday to give people chance to get good quality copies onto Pirate Bay


Is pirate bay still going?  Must be over ten years since I last used that site.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 17, 2021)

So how much is it to subscribe to Paramount + ?


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 17, 2021)

MrCurry said:


> Good grief. Paramount+
> 
> They might as well brand it Trekkie Tax. I won’t be buying.


I have heard _from a friend_ that Cinema HQ is quite good. This friend watches it on their phone, but apparently you can get it on a Fire Stick.


----------



## strung out (Nov 17, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> So how much is it to subscribe to Paramount + ?


You can't. Not in this country, at least.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 17, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> So how much is it to subscribe to Paramount + ?


I don’t think it’s been announced. There’s not even a launch date as far as I can see. Some time in 2022.


----------



## strung out (Nov 17, 2021)

MrCurry said:


> Is pirate bay still going?  Must be over ten years since I last used that site.


Still use Pirate Bay regularly. It's mostly fine for the popular stuff.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 17, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I don’t think it’s been announced. There’s not even a launch date as far as I can see. Some time in 2022.


I see. Thankyou.


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> So how much is it to subscribe to Paramount + ?


Well it's $5.99 (with commercials) and 9.99 (without), so roughly the same price I guess.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 17, 2021)

I’ve never torrented or pirated any tv or films. I don’t have the technical confidence.  Nor do I want it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 17, 2021)

steveo87 said:


> Well it's $5.99 (with commercials) and 9.99 (without), so roughly the same price I guess.


As?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 17, 2021)

strung out said:


> You can't. Not in this country, at least.


I'm guessing you live in the UK?


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 17, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> As?


Sorry the uk prices would be roughly the same. In sterling obviously.


----------



## strung out (Nov 17, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve never torrented or pirated any tv or films. I don’t have the technical confidence.  Nor do I want it.


You could probably get a friendly poster on here to send files over via Dropbox. We've done that amongst friends for stuff we've all wanted to watch but only one can be bothered with the whole torrenting business.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 17, 2021)

steveo87 said:


> Well it's $5.99 (with commercials) and 9.99 (without), so roughly the same price I guess.


I live in the UK


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 17, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> I live in the UK





steveo87 said:


> Sorry the uk prices would be roughly the same. In sterling obviously.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 17, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve never torrented or pirated any tv or films. I don’t have the technical confidence.  Nor do I want it.


Yeah I know what you mean. Personally I've never been able to do it. Not with pirate bay anyway. And viewing free films etc is much harder these days.


----------



## MickiQ (Nov 17, 2021)

MrCurry said:


> Is pirate bay still going?  Must be over ten years since I last used that site.


doing just great


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 17, 2021)

Downloaded all of lower decks season 2 on Monday night.


----------



## MickiQ (Nov 17, 2021)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Downloaded all of lower decks season 2 on Monday night.


It's funny isn't it


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 17, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> It's funny isn't it


The first season was. Not got a chance to watch 2 yet. I have high hopes. Took me an episode or two to get into st:ld but once it clicked I was a big fan.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 17, 2021)

Suddenly my purchase of the TNG/DS9/VOY boxsets just before they were made available on Netflix doesn't seem so crazy


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 18, 2021)

at least you did not buy ENT


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Nov 18, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> at least you did not buy ENT


Had to look that up - it stands for Ear, Nose and Throat in my mind


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 18, 2021)

this song makes the acronym more easy to remember


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 18, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> at least you did not buy ENT



Oh yeah, I did! I'd just blotted it from memory. ENT groups in with the current shows. I like my ST universe with Picard/Sisko/Janeway captaining ships all at the same time


----------



## Balbi (Nov 18, 2021)

I'd just started watching S3 of Disco and now it's fucken gone.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 18, 2021)

Balbi said:


> I'd just started watching S3 of Disco and now it's fucken gone.



Tbf, it starts off well but a bit disappointing compared to the previous seasons.


----------



## Cerv (Nov 18, 2021)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Suddenly my purchase of the TNG/DS9/VOY boxsets just before they were made available on Netflix doesn't seem so crazy


was it one of those discount deals where getting all 3 worked out cheap than just TNG + DS9 ?


----------



## moochedit (Nov 18, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve never torrented or pirated any tv or films. I don’t have the technical confidence.  Nor do I want it.


Me neither. My mate does it and it always looks like loads of hassle to me. When he watches pirate football it keeps bringing dodgy pop up ads all the time and freezing.


----------



## Chz (Nov 18, 2021)

That's streaming, which is always fraught with peril. Downloads of non-live things is a lot easier to deal with.

I've ended up having to pirate DVDs I've legitimately rented because for some reason in this day and age it's still legal to distribute an English-language film with no English subtitles. The pirated version had them! (and Italian, Dutch, French, etc...)


----------



## sojourner (Nov 18, 2021)

strung out said:


> You could probably get a friendly poster on here to send files over via Dropbox. We've done that amongst friends for stuff we've all wanted to watch but only one can be bothered with the whole torrenting business.


My daughter does it for me. I did try once, years ago, but then something happened to PB and it worried me  So she just sends me shit tons of anything I want now.


----------



## moochedit (Nov 18, 2021)

I hope this doesn't affect picard as well  

(I know that was on amazon not netflix.)


----------



## cybershot (Nov 24, 2021)

Season 4 of discovery will be Available in UK on a free streami g service called Pluto. 









						Star Trek: Discovery Season Four Lands on Paramount+ & Pluto TV Internationally
					

Take flight with all-new episodes premiering this week




					intl.startrek.com


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 24, 2021)

at 9pm on a friday 

like old skool telly watch it as if it was on the magic box


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 25, 2021)

I wonder if the rest of Star Trek will be available in the UK after it disappears from Netflix?


----------



## MrCurry (Nov 26, 2021)

Any eta on how much longer TNG remains on Netflix? It’s become my go-to accompaniment to dinner.


----------



## moochedit (Nov 26, 2021)

MrCurry said:


> Any eta on how much longer TNG remains on Netflix? It’s become my go-to accompaniment to dinner.


I want to know about picard on amazon. I guess if other ST series are moving they will also go to pluto?

I managed to download the pluto app to my andriod phone and cast the pluto scifi channel to my chromecast yesterday.

I think you have to watch st disco "live" at 9pm tonight  though. Not sure if they repeat it during the week if you miss one?


----------



## MickiQ (Nov 26, 2021)

moochedit said:


> I want to know about picard on amazon. I guess if other ST series are moving they will also go to pluto?
> 
> I managed to download the pluto app to my andriod phone and cast the pluto scifi channel to my chromecast yesterday.
> 
> I think you have to watch st disco "live" at 9pm tonight  though. Not sure if they repeat it during the week if you miss one?


I'm pretty sure Amazon actually own Picard it's got the Amazon Original banner across the top so I don't think it will move anywhere. I think Paramount own everything else though.


----------



## Leafster (Nov 26, 2021)

moochedit said:


> I want to know about picard on amazon. I guess if other ST series are moving they will also go to pluto?
> 
> I managed to download the pluto app to my andriod phone and cast the pluto scifi channel to my chromecast yesterday.
> 
> I think you have to watch st disco "live" at 9pm tonight  though. Not sure if they repeat it during the week if you miss one?


I'm trying to work out what Pluto TV have said. It looks like it's available at 9pm tonight, tomorrow and Sunday. I guess that means that for this week episode 1 will be at 9pm and then be followed by episode 2 at 10pm. Then next week Ep 3 will be on at 9pm on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. 

""

Unfortunately, their programme guide only seems to a "now and next" type so I can't see any later programmes today to confirm my guess. 

Although they seem to offer an On Demand service I can't find any mention of Disco being available on this after it's aired.


----------



## moochedit (Nov 26, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I'm pretty sure Amazon actually own Picard it's got the Amazon Original banner across the top so I don't think it will move anywhere. I think Paramount own everything else though.


I think st disco eps had the netflix original at the start which apparently has been edited now.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 26, 2021)

Discovrery had the netflix original tag as well


Paramount own the rights to picard

you be able to buy a Paramount plus account thru the amazon prime app when it come out i suppose but it will be on their streaming network not amazons


----------



## MickiQ (Nov 26, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> Discovrery had the netflix original tag as well
> 
> 
> Paramount own the rights to picard
> ...


Bugger that just add to the list of stuff I have to steal, this is getting to be a long list.


----------



## Chz (Nov 26, 2021)

Amazon is a bit more... honest about how they come by things. There's a certain terminology they use - Original is something they own, Exclusive is something they've bought and have exclusive rights to. I believe Picard is an Exclusive, albeit one they have for pretty much the entire world.

Netflix just stamps "Netflix Original" on absolutely everything.

Edit: Well it used to be the case. Looks like Amazon is following the Netflix route of if they've got exclusive rights then it's Original. So ignore the whole thing.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 26, 2021)

Picard is Paramount+ in the US, it's just on Amazon over here, so I'd expect it to take the same route, along with all the other series.


----------



## moochedit (Nov 26, 2021)

Leafster said:


> I'm trying to work out what Pluto TV have said. It looks like it's available at 9pm tonight, tomorrow and Sunday. I guess that means that for this week episode 1 will be at 9pm and then be followed by episode 2 at 10pm. Then next week Ep 3 will be on at 9pm on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
> 
> ""
> 
> ...



Yeah i noticed you couldn't view next days program. The search facility didn't help either. As you say Its not clear if the "on demand" will have it after it shows at 9pm. At least they repeat on sat and sun anyway.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 26, 2021)

moochedit said:


> I hope this doesn't affect picard as well
> 
> (I know that was on amazon not netflix.)



Marvel hasn't taken the Netflix Marvel shows, so maybe it's safe like them...


----------



## moochedit (Nov 26, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Marvel hasn't taken the Netflix Marvel shows, so maybe it's safe like them...


I guess it is all to do with contract terms. Fingers crossed anyway.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 26, 2021)

did netflex not make the netflix marvel shows

so slight difference situation as they are just paying for a licease from marvel at this stage



it shitty as netflix more or less paid for Discovery to be made by taking on the worldwide international rights of distribution


CBS thought it was risky :/


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 3, 2021)

I've recently got up to season 2 of TNG and things seem to have detiorated significantly. I'm very much losing interest and can see me skipping to Deep Space Nine very soon (which I think is the next phase).


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 3, 2021)

AmateurAgitator said:


> I've recently got up to season 2 of TNG and things seem to have detiorated significantly. I'm very much losing interest and can see me skipping to Deep Space Nine very soon (which I think is the next phase).


You think season 2 of tng is worse than season 1?


That's a hot take.

 Tng being less good than tos is understandable if subjective. 

I'm a tos guy but tng is still worthy.

I bounced of ds9 to my eternal shame.

Voy was alright.  Great op though. 

Glad to be post berman though


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 3, 2021)

Well I'm about 4 episodes in and I've not been able to finish atleast a couple so far, including the Elementary My Dear Data episode.

I don't think I did that with any episodes from season 1.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2021)

still suggest no one pay paramount anything.

 saying  that disco s4 is on pluto tv andriod app for free mess around with your newish tellys

saying that just sort brought a character back and they did not even give a proper hug or more to their partner

do the actors not have beef


distracted me for the plot for some reason


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 4, 2021)

AmateurAgitator said:


> I've recently got up to season 2 of TNG and things seem to have detiorated significantly. I'm very much losing interest and can see me skipping to Deep Space Nine very soon (which I think is the next phase).


S1 & S2 of TNG range from mediocre to dire. When S2 ended there was a clear out amongst the writing and production staff including Roddenberry being moved to a job with a fancy title but no actual power and Berman took over.
S3 to S6 of TNG include some truly outstanding episodes the odd bummer of course but most pretty solid. S7 slacked a bit but was still MUCH better than S1 & S2
DS9 is great it's not Babylon 5 but comes close. VOY has some good episodes but is nowhere in the league of later TNG & DS9


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 4, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> S1 & S2 of TNG range from mediocre to dire. When S2 ended there was a clear out amongst the writing and production staff including Roddenberry being moved to a job with a fancy title but no actual power and Berman took over.
> S3 to S6 of TNG include some truly outstanding episodes the odd bummer of course but most pretty solid. S7 slacked a bit but was still MUCH better than S1 & S2
> DS9 is great it's not Babylon 5 but comes close. VOY has some good episodes but is nowhere in the league of later TNG & DS9


Agreed but no love for B5


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 4, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> S1 & S2 of TNG range from mediocre to dire. When S2 ended there was a clear out amongst the writing and production staff including Roddenberry being moved to a job with a fancy title but no actual power and Berman took over.
> S3 to S6 of TNG include some truly outstanding episodes the odd bummer of course but most pretty solid. S7 slacked a bit but was still MUCH better than S1 & S2
> DS9 is great it's not Babylon 5 but comes close. VOY has some good episodes but is nowhere in the league of later TNG & DS9


Thankyou. It's good to hear that things do improve. I will probably skip to season 3 then.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Agreed but no love for B5


What's wrong with Babylon 5? I've never watched it.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 4, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Agreed but no love for B5


Some people are just beyond hope


----------



## kabbes (Dec 4, 2021)

AmateurAgitator said:


> What's wrong with Babylon 5? I've never watched it.


It was the dawn of the third age of mankind


----------



## Leafster (Dec 4, 2021)

After nearly 30 years and numerous attempts to watch DS9 I've finally made it past season 1! I'd run out of things to watch so thought I'd give it a go. Season 1 was still tough going - none of the characters really interested me and Sisko is just plain irritating. Season 2 got a little better and I enjoyed some of the story lines. I'm on season 3 now and, to my mind, it's still a bit patchy but I'm more invested in the characters and where the story is going than I've ever been before. 

I hope my perseverance pays off as I'm looking forward to seeing why other people have said it's so good. At the moment, it's still only something to watch if I've got nothing better to do *.

* I've recently discovered that Babylon 5 is on IMDB TV so I've been re-watching that in preference to DS9 some of the time.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2021)

gets better in the  4th season so stick with it leafster


----------



## emanymton (Dec 4, 2021)

AmateurAgitator said:


> What's wrong with Babylon 5? I've never watched it.


Some people just can't cope with how amazing it is.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 4, 2021)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> You think season 2 of tng is worse than season 1?
> 
> 
> That's a hot take.


Actually it's been so long I've kinda forgotten when it got better.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 4, 2021)

AmateurAgitator said:


> What's wrong with Babylon 5? I've never watched it.



It's not Trek


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2021)

Was around of B5

had a good first season or 2 but then lost a lot of productions budget around the end


ended up watching the show that took over star gate in 1997


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2021)

also B5 was good as long as you could get pass space napoleon...


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 4, 2021)

I'm actually sticking with season 2 of TNG. It's pretty good after all.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 4, 2021)

AmateurAgitator said:


> I'm actually sticking with season 2 of TNG. It's pretty good after all.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 8, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


>


Did Dawson miss her cue?


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 8, 2021)

Leafster said:


> * I've recently discovered that Babylon 5 is on IMDB TV so I've been re-watching that in preference to DS9 some of the time.


Me too. Just started season 3. The budget appears to go up each season though I watched a Season 4 episode a couple of years ago and it looked pretty shabby.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Dec 8, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> Did Dawson miss her cue?



I assume she's just developed another of her transwarp technologies and as a self-loather doesn't want to congratulate herself. I'm guessing late S2 or S3 as the Doctor is able to be on the bridge, Janeway still has a military hairdo and Jennifer Lien isn't in the county jail.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 9, 2021)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I assume she's just developed another of her transwarp technologies and as a self-loather doesn't want to congratulate herself. I'm guessing late S2 or S3 as the Doctor is able to be on the bridge, Janeway still has a military hairdo and Jennifer Lien isn't in the county jail.


I'm pretty sure it's the episode where the Q are fighting each other causing supernova all over the place.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 9, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> Did Dawson miss her cue?



One does not simply miss a Q


----------



## Reno (Dec 10, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> Did Dawson miss her cue?


She is doing some "too stunned to immediately clap" acting.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 15, 2021)

I watched the first episode with the Borg the other day, featuring Q. The Borg are definitely a hostile force to be reckoned with, infact they seem to be unstoppable.

Q has alot to answer for as it was his fault that the Enterprise encountered them - and now they have info about the Enterprise !


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 15, 2021)

AmateurAgitator said:


> I watched the first episode with the Borg the other day, featuring Q. The Borg are definitely a hostile force to be reckoned with, infact they seem to be unstoppable.
> 
> Q has alot to answer for as it was his fault that the Enterprise encountered them - and now they have info about the Enterprise !


wait til you watch ' Best of both worlds ' parts 1 & 2 , season 2 ( or 3 ) finale I think.


----------



## moochedit (Dec 15, 2021)

Leafster said:


> After nearly 30 years and numerous attempts to watch DS9 I've finally made it past season 1! I'd run out of things to watch so thought I'd give it a go. Season 1 was still tough going - none of the characters really interested me and Sisko is just plain irritating. Season 2 got a little better and I enjoyed some of the story lines. I'm on season 3 now and, to my mind, it's still a bit patchy but I'm more invested in the characters and where the story is going than I've ever been before.
> 
> I hope my perseverance pays off as I'm looking forward to seeing why other people have said it's so good. At the moment, it's still only something to watch if I've got nothing better to do *.
> 
> * I've recently discovered that Babylon 5 is on IMDB TV so I've been re-watching that in preference to DS9 some of the time.


Yeah i never really got on with DS9 either. Always preferred Voyager (may not be a popular opinion on here!) and next gen.

Maybe i'll try it again some time.


----------



## Reno (Dec 15, 2021)

TNG, DS9 and Voyager didn't hit their stride till season 3 and they are a bit of a slog till then. Voyager probably slightly less so, but that show vastly improved when they swapped Kes for Seven of Nine. 

DS9 was my favourite. Despite Sisko probably being my least favourite captain, it had my favourite crew, Kira and Dax being the first female lead characters who weren't just like eye candy. I also liked how it developed more of a story arch and the way it dealt with politics and religion.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 15, 2021)

moochedit said:


> Yeah i never really got on with DS9 either. Always preferred Voyager (may not be a popular opinion on here!) and next gen.


Popular with me. I agree.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 15, 2021)

The actor for Q has a good villain run in Stargate, starts off as just a penny pinching senator who is suspicious of the stargate program and graduates to full scale traitor to humanity.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 15, 2021)

I don't know if it's just me but there was something that bothered me abit about one of the first TNG episodes. There was an entire alien race all played by black people that had problems with their culture regarding their treatment of women. Seemed a bit problematic to me. It's still a good series though don't get me wrong.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 15, 2021)

if you are making remarks about episode you watching in broadcast date 


that episode was so bad but was it not before tash died?


----------



## emanymton (Dec 15, 2021)

AmateurAgitator said:


> I don't know if it's just me but there was something that bothered me abit about one of the first TNG episodes. There was an entire alien race all played by black people that had problems with their culture regarding their treatment of women. Seemed a bit problematic to me. It's still a good series though don't get me wrong.


Not just you. It seems to be commonly considered both a crap episode and racist to boot.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 16, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> if you are making remarks about episode you watching in broadcast date
> 
> 
> that episode was so bad but was it not before tash died?


It's called Code of Honor the 4th episode of S1, Denise Crosby (Tasha Yar) left at the end of Season 1. Code of Honor is rated as down there with Spocks Brain for being crap.
Fun Fact: the director of Code of Honor Russ Mayberry was fired by Gene Roddenberry during the making of it for racist behaviour towards the actors.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 16, 2021)

Reno said:


> She is doing some "too stunned to immediately clap" acting.


B'lana (of however it's spelt) is to much of a stern warrior to clap normally.  But being half..... baijoran(?)  She can be influenced by peer pressure like that.


----------



## strung out (Dec 16, 2021)

Half human.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 16, 2021)

strung out said:


> Half human.


Dammit I couldn't remember her back story.


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 16, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> It's called Code of Honor the 4th episode of S1, Denise Crosby (Tasha Yar) left at the end of Season 1. Code of Honor is rated as down there with Spocks Brain for being crap.
> Fun Fact: the director of Code of Honor Russ Mayberry was fired by Gene Roddenberry during the making of it for racist behaviour towards the actors.



*doff hat to someone more geek them emaelf


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 16, 2021)

This kind of sums it up.








						Revisiting Star Trek TNG: Code Of Honor
					

James continues his weekly look-back at TNG's first season with Code Of Honor, "...possibly the worst piece of Star Trek ever made"...




					www.denofgeek.com


----------



## cybershot (Dec 17, 2021)

Wow Turbolift door!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 19, 2021)




----------



## cybershot (Jan 19, 2022)

Paramount+, the streaming service from ViacomCBS, today announced new season premiere dates and additional 10-episode-long season pickup orders across the service’s _Star Trek_ Universe live-action series:


*Star Trek: Discovery* has been renewed for a fifth season. Season four of _Star Trek: Discovery_ returns with new episodes on Thursday, Feb. 10.
Season two of _*Star Trek: Picard*_ will premiere on Thursday, March 3. Following the premiere, new episodes will drop weekly on Thursdays. _Star Trek: Picard_ is currently in production on a third season.
*Star Trek: Strange New Worlds* has been renewed for a second season ahead of its season one debut, which will premiere on Thursday, May 5. Following the premiere, new episodes will drop weekly on Thursdays.
In addition to the live action series within the _Star Trek_ Universe on Paramount+, there is more animated _Star Trek_ on the horizon:


*Star Trek: Lower Decks* will return summer 2022 with a 10-episode-long third season. _Star Trek: Lower Decks_ has also been renewed for a 10-episode-long fourth season.
Season one of *Star Trek: Prodigy* returned on Thursday, Jan. 6 with episode six. The remaining four episodes of season one’s first half will be available to stream weekly on Thursdays, with episode 10 available to stream on Thursday, Feb. 3. The additional 10-episode-long second half of season one will be available on Paramount+ later in 2022.










						The Star Trek Universe Celebrates 2022 with New Premiere Dates, Season Pickups
					

The franchise is boldly growing




					intl.startrek.com


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 19, 2022)

boo fuck paramount


saying that new worlds


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 19, 2022)

I want to see new Trek. ☹️


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 19, 2022)

become a pirate 

VPN and stealing


need to update my pc and get back into it


----------



## A380 (Jan 19, 2022)

Just started watching TOS again, 11 episodes down with the intention of watching TNG from the beginning afterwards. In about three years time I'll revisit and ask for suggestions as to which series to watch after that...


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 19, 2022)

i'd get it done quite soon

the reason i'm saying fuck paramount is now they have their own netflix

its going to be behind their own pay wall shortly

not sure how long the daily repeats are going to continue on cable and sky


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Mar 5, 2022)

Well fortunately  I can still watch TNG on Netflix. Am up to season 5 now. Have just got past the Klingon civil war (Redemption parts 1 and 2).


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 5, 2022)

woops


----------



## cybershot (Mar 6, 2022)

Season 2 of Picard has just started and for some reason this is still on Amazon prime in the UK, so no need to wait. If you’ve got prime.


----------



## moochedit (Mar 6, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Season 2 of Picard has just started and for some reason this is still on Amazon prime in the UK, so no need to wait. If you’ve got prime.


Yeah watched it friday. None of that watching live on pluto bollocks 

I guess Paramount learned their lesson from the netflix discovery reaction. Although i wouldn't be surprised if the next series of picard moves to paramount+ once that launches in the uk.


----------



## moochedit (Mar 9, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Season 2 of Picard has just started and for some reason this is still on Amazon prime in the UK, so no need to wait. If you’ve got prime.


Apparently they have just finished filming season 3 which was filmed back to back with season 2. Also confirmed season 3 will be the final season of Picard.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 9, 2022)




----------



## Ax^ (Apr 29, 2022)




----------



## MickiQ (Apr 29, 2022)

On my list of stuff to steal when it starts next Thursday


----------



## T & P (Apr 30, 2022)

This is AFAIK the first ST animated series aimed at young audiences, but it looks promising. It has just started on one of the UK kiddie channels…









						Star Trek: Prodigy - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## T & P (May 1, 2022)

Watched the first two episodes of Star Trek Prodigy. It’s bloody good! Children friendly but not childish and enjoyable for grownups as well.

Cracking thrilling action, far better than S2 of Picard (though that’s not difficult I guess). A number of celebrity voices and at least one legacy character from the ST universe. On Nick- recommended.


----------



## cybershot (May 2, 2022)

Ax^ said:


>



Doesn’t give much away. Which is probably a bad sign. 

I’m hoping this goes back to alien of the week style television and isn’t some long drawn out story long season that just gets shitter and weirder as it goes on as all modern Star Trek seems to be.


----------



## Ax^ (May 2, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Doesn’t give much away. Which is probably a bad sign.
> 
> I’m hoping this goes back to alien of the week style television and isn’t some long drawn out story long season that just gets shitter and weirder as it goes on as all modern Star Trek seems to be.




it's not a trailer it's a bloody start credits 

don't remember the  original were no man has gone before speech
being an action pack of the roller coaster of action


----------



## Ax^ (May 2, 2022)

have heards its a return to old star trek formula of episode contained stories if that helps


----------



## cybershot (May 2, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> it's not a trailer it's a bloody start credits
> 
> don't remember the  original were no man has gone before speech
> being an action pack of the roller coaster of action


I thought it was a trailer. Soz. Just tend to skip past intros these days.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 5, 2022)

Just watched the first ep of ' Strange new worlds'.

I enjoyed it, I think it could be one of the better ones.

Was pretty disappointed with 'Picard' season 2, the whole season including the finale was a mess.


----------



## steveo87 (May 5, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Just watched the first ep of ' Strange new worlds'.
> 
> I enjoyed it, I think it could be one of the better ones.
> 
> Was pretty disappointed with 'Picard' season 2, the whole season including the finale was a mess.


I was going to post a long piece about SNW, and how much of a better series it looks like in comparison to the other 'modern' Star Trek. 
But you've summed it up a hell of a lot better.


----------



## cybershot (May 6, 2022)

Looking at the brief plots of the first 5 episodes it does look like it's got a more tradional Trek 'story/alien of the week' approach. Let's see how they manage to fuck that up by the end of the season.


----------



## cybershot (May 7, 2022)

Paramount+ Launches on 22 June. £6.99 a month or £69.90 for a 12 month upfront payment subscription.
If you have Sky and have a Sky Cinema subscription then you'll receive Paramount+ for free.



			https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/05/paramount-to-launch-streaming-service-in-the-uk-this-june---here/


----------



## MrCurry (May 7, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Paramount+ Launches on 22 June. £6.99 a month or £69.90 for a 12 month upfront payment subscription.
> If you have Sky and have a Sky Cinema subscription then you'll receive Paramount+ for free.
> 
> 
> ...


Does this mean Star Trek  is gonna disappear from Netflix?


----------



## cybershot (May 7, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> Does this mean Star Trek  is gonna disappear from Netflix?


Pretty sure that that's a given as they have already left US Netflix for Paramount+


----------



## MrCurry (May 7, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Pretty sure that that's a given as they have already left US Netflix for Paramount+


I’d better binge on some Voyager now then.


----------



## moochedit (May 7, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> Does this mean Star Trek  is gonna disappear from Netflix?


Think it already has.


----------



## MrCurry (May 7, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Think it already has.


Still on my Netflix, but I’m not in U.K. so maybe different there?


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 13, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Just watched the first ep of ' Strange new worlds'.
> 
> I enjoyed it, I think it could be one of the better ones.


I really liked it. Some excellent cast members, really liked the new Uhura and the white-haired science lady, and the Pike/Spock chemistry works. Also feels like the old ST references aren't as laboured as they sometimes were on Discovery. Visuals were pretty good too - if it does turn out to be closer to the episodic earlier shows, it could be the best new Trek yet.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 14, 2022)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I really liked it. Some excellent cast members, really liked the new Uhura and the white-haired science lady, and the Pike/Spock chemistry works. Also feels like the old ST references aren't as laboured as they sometimes were on Discovery. Visuals were pretty good too - if it does turn out to be closer to the episodic earlier shows, it could be the best new Trek yet.


Going by the second episode it does seem to be episodic although there is i think an underlying link that connects back to discovery ( not in a bad way though.)


----------



## CNT36 (May 14, 2022)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I really liked it. Some excellent cast members, really liked the new Uhura and the white-haired science lady, and the Pike/Spock chemistry works. Also feels like the old ST references aren't as laboured as they sometimes were on Discovery. Visuals were pretty good too - if it does turn out to be closer to the episodic earlier shows, it could be the best new Trek yet.


Get back to me when they sing themselves out of trouble.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 14, 2022)

CNT36 said:


> Get back to me when they sing themselves out of trouble.





Spoiler



you aint gonna like ep 2 then...


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 26, 2022)

This weeks strange new worlds is pretty good...


----------



## cybershot (May 26, 2022)

It’s awesome. I feel bad we’re discussing it in the general thread while all the other shitty new trek has its own thread.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jul 9, 2022)

Had a long train journey this week, so an opportunity to catch up on episodes of Strange New Worlds and Discovery. After watching SNW first, it really highlighted just how bad Disco has become - just endless worthy emoting at each other, and SMG whispering as if that's a legitimate way for anyone to communicate high intensity.


----------



## T & P (Jul 26, 2022)

Decided to do a 7-day Paramount trial to check out Strange New Worlds, as it seems to have been so well received so far. Very happy to say we weren’t disappointed- first few episodes were very good and engaging, what any Star Trek episode should be doing but which Discovery and Picard had largely failed to achieve.

Not perfect, and a few outdated cliches and laughably absurd historical cliches from the franchise persist, such as the famed practice of sending half your top command officers on every away mission. This lot seems particularly inept when using their transporter as well, with so many storyline threats and device plots in this series so far emanating from mishaps when using it. But I’m being picky and this is the best ST series for years.


----------



## T & P (Jul 26, 2022)

Another observation about persisting cliches: in half of all scenarios when the crew of the Enterprise know they’ve just been boarded by enemy agents, including in this latest offering, it seems nobody has thought it might be a good idea to put a lock on the door to the bridge…


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2022)

T & P said:


> This lot seems particularly inept when using their transporter as well, with so many storyline threats and device plots in this series so far emanating from mishaps when using it.


I love transporter accident episodes. There was one that made two rikers. Of course the earlier the star trek setting, the cruder the transporter will be hence more accidents.


----------



## Chz (Jul 26, 2022)

T & P said:


> Decided to do a 7-day Paramount trial to check out Strange New Worlds, as it seems to have been so well received so far. Very happy to say we weren’t disappointed- first few episodes were very good and engaging, what any Star Trek episode should be doing but which Discovery and Picard had largely failed to achieve.
> 
> Not perfect, and a few outdated cliches and laughably absurd historical cliches from the franchise persist, such as the famed practice of sending half your top command officers on every away mission. This lot seems particularly inept when using their transporter as well, with so many storyline threats and device plots in this series so far emanating from mishaps when using it. But I’m being picky and this is the* best ST series for years*.


it is quite good, compared to the stuff we've had since Voyager. But the problem with this statement is that Lower Decks exists.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2022)

DotCommunist said:


> I love transporter accident episodes. There was one that made two rikers. Of course the earlier the star trek setting, the cruder the transporter will be hence more accidents.


As a kid, the transporter accident in The Motion Picture resulted in a few nightmares!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 26, 2022)

DotCommunist said:


> I love transporter accident episodes. There was one that made two rikers. Of course the earlier the star trek setting, the cruder the transporter will be hence more accidents.


Even Tuvix?


----------



## maomao (Jul 26, 2022)

Is anyone else getting Keir Starmer vibes from Captain Pike? I think it's the hair; it's ruining it for me.


----------



## T & P (Jul 26, 2022)

maomao said:


> Is anyone else getting Keir Starmer vibes from Captain Pike? I think it's the hair; it's ruining it for me.


His hair reminds me of that BBC film reviewer, sans glassses...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

maomao said:


> Is anyone else getting Keir Starmer vibes from Captain Pike? I think it's the hair; it's ruining it for me.



Pike is charming and likeable and good at his job. So no, I've never got him mixed up with Keir Starmer.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2022)

T & P said:


> His hair reminds me of that BBC film reviewer, sans glassses...



No, Mark Kermode got his hairdo from Monsters Inc...


----------



## RedRedRose (Jul 27, 2022)

I haven't looked at season 3 or 4 of Discovery yet. However, New Star Trek seems a return to form.


----------



## moochedit (Jul 27, 2022)

maomao said:


> Is anyone else getting Keir Starmer vibes from Captain Pike? I think it's the hair; it's ruining it for me.


No i hadn't but I can't unsee that now


----------



## RedRedRose (Jul 28, 2022)

So, a question for the hardcore. Which are the best and worst holodeck episodes? (Any series)


----------



## The Octagon (Jul 28, 2022)

Geordi falling in love with the holo version of the Enterprise's designer (or something similar) was a low point. 

Bonus points for the episode later on when he meets the real woman and she's snarky with him, lol.


----------



## RedRedRose (Jul 28, 2022)

I always remember the Sherlock Holmes TNG episode being quite good; there was also that Voyager episode where they went old-school 50's sci-fi schlock (including black and white visuals).


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 28, 2022)

Not a fan of the holodeck EPs in any of the shows

Feel the same about dream sequences


----------



## Signal 11 (Jul 28, 2022)

maomao said:


> Is anyone else getting Keir Starmer vibes from Captain Pike? I think it's the hair; it's ruining it for me.


----------



## Chz (Jul 28, 2022)

I've said it before, it's both the best and the worst holodeck episode. It is so fucking awful that you have to love it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 28, 2022)




----------



## emanymton (Jul 28, 2022)

Chz said:


> I've said it before, it's both the best and the worst holodeck episode. It is so fucking awful that you have to love it.



Not a holodeck episode it is a Q episode.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 28, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> So, a question for the hardcore. Which are the best and worst holodeck episodes? (Any series)


best
Emergence from the last series of TNG.
where the crew are stuck inside some kind of dream the Enterprise (yes, the actual ship) is having made up of various holodeck programs mashed together, as the Enterprise gives birth to a totally new form of life.

worst
Janeway's Irish village shagging


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 28, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> So, a question for the hardcore. Which are the best and worst holodeck episodes? (Any series)



The Sherlock Holmes one is a classic.


----------



## maomao (Jul 28, 2022)

Cerv said:


> worst
> Janeway's Irish village shagging


Scottish. It was a Brigadoon programme she was running.


----------



## Chz (Jul 28, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Not a holodeck episode it is a Q episode.


Oh bugger me, you're right of course! Somehow it turned into a holodeck episode in my memory.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 28, 2022)

Chz said:


> Oh bugger me, you're right of course! Somehow it turned into a holodeck episode in my memory.


I only know because Worf smashing Geordi's lute (or whatever it is) then apologising is the funniest moment in Star Trek in my opinion.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 28, 2022)

The Voyager one on an oirish planet

Desperate stuff


----------



## strung out (Jul 28, 2022)

In the fandom, the most despised holodeck episode ever is probably the final episode of Enterprise, because it's basically an episode of The Next Generation, with Riker and Troi taking part in an episode of Enterprise on the Holodeck during the events of The Pegasus.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 28, 2022)

maomao said:


> Scottish. It was a Brigadoon programme she was running.





krtek a houby said:


> The Voyager one on an oirish planet
> 
> Desperate stuff



This is the one I was thinking of - Fair Haven
Janeway falls in love with a holodeck character from a 19th C Irish village the crew all hang out in to relax (once then never mention again).








						Fair Haven (episode)
					

The crew relaxes in Paris's latest holodeck creation: an idealized 19th century Irish village, where Captain Janeway falls in love with a holographic character. Tom Paris has created a very detailed program in 19th century Ireland, a town called Fair Haven. He wants it to be a place where the...




					memory-alpha.fandom.com
				




I don't recall any Brigadoon reference in Voyager.
There was a DS9 episode, where Dax falls in love with an alien on a planet that falls in and out of our physical universe every 100 years like a magical village. but that didn't involve a holodeck at all.


----------



## maomao (Jul 28, 2022)

Cerv said:


> This is the one I was thinking of - Fair Haven
> Janeway falls in love with a holodeck character from a 19th C Irish village the crew all hang out in to relax (once then never mention again).
> 
> 
> ...


I think I never made it all the way through that episode. I often struggled with Voyager. It was my mum, who is both Scottish and tediously pedantic who always referred to that one as the Brigadoon episode but there may have been a plot similarity (falling in love and wanting to stay in the village). Happy to admit I'm wrong anyway.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 28, 2022)

maomao said:


> I think I never made it all the way through that episode.


I wish I'd had your wisdom in my wasted youth


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 28, 2022)

I quite liked the one where Janeway was a governess. There was some leaking of this other world into her real life on Voyager but can't remember how.


----------



## T & P (Jul 29, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> So, a question for the hardcore. Which are the best and worst holodeck episodes? (Any series)


Don’t know about worst, but whenever you see one that features Patrick Stewart wearing period clothes, you can be assured you’re onto a winner


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 30, 2022)

The Pensky File are finally reviewing Voyager after years of insisting they wouldn't. And they are mostly loving it.


----------



## A380 (Jul 30, 2022)

T & P said:


> Don’t know about worst, but whenever you see one that features Patrick Stewart wearing period clothes, you can be assured you’re onto a winner



Like in TOS if you saw Joan Collins is in it…


----------



## MrCurry (Jul 30, 2022)

RedRedRose said:


> So, a question about hardcore. Which are the best and worst





T & P said:


> Don’t know about worst, but whenever you see one that features Patrick Stewart wearing no clothes, you can be assured you’re onto a winner


You don’t have to change much when you quote, to completely change the meaning of posts, do you?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 30, 2022)

Am watching Homeward on Netflix, about 30 mins in (TNG episode, don't know what series I'm on). The prime directive is absolute bullshit - potentially a whole civilisation gone just because the hierarchy of Star Fleet says that the prime directive must be. obeyed - and Picard is so cold about it all


----------



## cybershot (Jul 30, 2022)

I saw the baryon (sp!) sweep episode yesterday where Picard pretty much becomes a cold blooded killer as he saves the enterprise on his own while it’s docked at a station. 

Very out of character episode. But I guess you do what you gotta do.


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## Cerv (Jul 31, 2022)

sad news. Nichelle Nichols has passed away








						Nichelle Nichols, who played Lt Uhura in original Star Trek, dies aged 89
					

Actor achieved worldwide fame and broke ground for Black women while playing Nyota Uhura in the original TV hit




					www.theguardian.com
				




what a legend


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## ruffneck23 (Aug 1, 2022)

RIP


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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 1, 2022)




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## T & P (Aug 3, 2022)

Episode 9 of Strange New Worlds is one of the best yet, as well as a shameless ripoff loving homage to  Aliens and Predator .  But then again no more so than what The Orville has been all along, so no criticism from me there.

Just started the first episode of S4 of Discovery, and whereas it could turn shit in the latter part for all I know, I am happy to report the first twenty minutes have been highly enjoyable, with the same vibes as Strange New Worlds and so far a lot more engaging than the last season if Discovery.


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## moochedit (Aug 3, 2022)

T & P said:


> Episode 9 of Strange New Worlds is one of the best yet, as well as a shameless ripoff loving homage to  Aliens and Predator .  But then again no more so than what The Orville has been all along, so no criticism from me there.
> 
> Just started the first episode of S4 of Discovery, and whereas it could turn shit in the latter part for all I know, I am happy to report the first twenty minutes have been highly enjoyable, with the same vibes as Strange New Worlds and so far a lot more engaging than the last season if Discovery.


Yes very much an alien rip off   they were taking the piss there 

In an earlier episode the gorn were flying ships and we never saw what they looked like. Do they transform in some way as they get older?


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## RedRedRose (Aug 4, 2022)

T & P said:


> Episode 9 of Strange New Worlds is one of the best yet





Spoiler: Episode 9



I was underwhelmed by the character death in that episode. It happened too early to have sufficient pay off.


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## T & P (Aug 4, 2022)

This question was prompted to my mind by The Orville’s rather than ST, due to the former naturally being a more likely natural environment for booze & drugs shenanigans. But seeing as both universes feature the all-important, game-changing replicator, it made me wonder…

 Are there any episodes in the ST universe featuring anyone with a substance abuse problem facilitated by the replicator? I am not an alcoholic but I certainly like a drink, and if I had a device in my quarters that provided any drink of my choice for free instantly, I reckon my weekly unit consumption would probably end up being too high for my long term health. Not to mention if the machine could also deliver a bag of devil’s dandruff or a fistful of Mitsubishis at the drop of a hat…


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## kabbes (Aug 4, 2022)

I’m sure I remember a DS9 plotline that involved possibly the Ferenghi up to no good with replicating dodgy substances?  Or maybe something Voyager-related?  Dim memory at best.


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## T & P (Aug 4, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I’m sure I remember a DS9 plotline that involved possibly the Ferenghi up to no good with replicating dodgy substances?  Or maybe something Voyager-related?  Dim memory at best.


Yeah, that rings a bell…


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## RedRedRose (Aug 4, 2022)

Barkley was addicted to the holodeck. Not quite substance abuse, but close.


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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 22, 2022)

Have finally completed TNG, am gonna really miss it. Started watching my first episode of DS9 but I miss the usual people and just can't get used to that Sisko fella. But then I've only just started watching it, feels weird though. I do like the fact that what seems to be the main character is a black guy though.


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## RedRedRose (Aug 24, 2022)

For the past two or three weeks, I have been working through Voyager.

ETA. Partly inspired by the Pensky File. I am rating each episode on IMDB.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 24, 2022)

T & P said:


> This question was prompted to my mind by The Orville’s rather than ST, due to the former naturally being a more likely natural environment for booze & drugs shenanigans. But seeing as both universes feature the all-important, game-changing replicator, it made me wonder…
> 
> Are there any episodes in the ST universe featuring anyone with a substance abuse problem facilitated by the replicator? I am not an alcoholic but I certainly like a drink, and if I had a device in my quarters that provided any drink of my choice for free instantly, I reckon my weekly unit consumption would probably end up being too high for my long term health. Not to mention if the machine could also deliver a bag of devil’s dandruff or a fistful of Mitsubishis at the drop of a hat…



Harlan Ellison's original draft of 'City on the Edge of Forever' had Scotty dealing drugs.

Unlikely the beloved final version had much to do with Ellison's work, although he got the credit despite the rewrites.

e2a: Re alcohol, it's explained at some point that the replicators by default supply an alcohol-free version of traditionally alcoholic things. This can be overridden however.


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## strung out (Aug 25, 2022)

Just putting this here



Inspired by one of the best episodes of Star Trek, when Quark's staff go on strike and form a union.

Buy the print here: Products – Will Burrows

Also:


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## Chz (Aug 25, 2022)

Just a heads up that Lower Decks Series 3 starts tomorrow. And oddly, it's still on Prime - not Paramount.


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## farmerbarleymow (Aug 25, 2022)

This popped into my head the other day.  How to they wash their clothes on a spaceship - do they have a launderette tucked away somewhere that they never show on telly?


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## moochedit (Aug 25, 2022)

farmerbarleymow said:


> This popped into my head the other day.  How to they wash their clothes on a spaceship - do they have a launderette tucked away somewhere that they never show on telly?


They probably replicate new clothes and chuck the old ones in the airlock.

Or maybe they have "sonic washing machines" like the "sonic showers"


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 25, 2022)

moochedit said:


> They probably replicate new clothes and chuck the old ones in the airlock.
> 
> Or maybe they have "sonic washing machines" like the "sonic showers"



On the ISS they put them in a trash capsule that is jettisoned.  It burns up on reentry.  Water is just too costly to use on washing clothing.

In TOS they had a "ship's laundry."  If you get a copy of the blueprints, its listed on them.

In DS-9, they talk about "garment reprocessing" in one episode.  I don't know if that mean chucking them in a sonic cleaner or a matter reclaimer.  Perhaps an even bigger nerd than me can tell us what they meant.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 25, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Have finally completed TNG, am gonna really miss it. Started watching my first episode of DS9 but I miss the usual people and just can't get used to that Sisko fella. But then I've only just started watching it, feels weird though. I do like the fact that what seems to be the main character is a black guy though.


That was kinda my feeling back in the day. Season 1 being a bit rough didn't help. I sorta fell off DS9 and wasn't properly back in until VOY. 
I still feel oddly detached from DS9 despite acknowledging it's quality.  
Getting into Babalon 5 around the same time also didn't help.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 25, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> In DS-9, they talk about "garment reprocessing" in one episode.  I don't know if that mean chucking them in a sonic cleaner or a matter reclaimer.  Perhaps an even bigger nerd than me can tell us what they meant.


 They resell (well not 'sell') worn crew uniforms to cosplayers and perverts.


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## bemused (Aug 25, 2022)

Stange new World's is pretty good. I can't get into Discovery it's technology solves every problem, no one can beat them etc.


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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 25, 2022)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> That was kinda my feeling back in the day. Season 1 being a bit rough didn't help. I sorta fell off DS9 and wasn't properly back in until VOY.
> I still feel oddly detached from DS9 despite acknowledging it's quality.
> Getting into Babalon 5 around the same time also didn't help.


Not everyone likes Babylon 5 but how do you rate it?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 25, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Not everyone likes Babylon 5 but how do you rate it?


I started off enjoying it but as it went on I felt I was missing what was going on. 

Might be down to missing some episodes and not keeping up with the story.


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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 25, 2022)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I started off enjoying it but as it went on I felt I was missing what was going on.
> 
> Might be down to missing some episodes and not keeping up with the story.


How much of it would  you say you enjoyed? (roughly).


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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 25, 2022)

I'm still on the first episode of DS9, will have to get back to it some time (I think its film length), but it goes on for ages and seems to take a long time to get to the point.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 25, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> How much of it would  you say you enjoyed? (roughly).



market research?


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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 25, 2022)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Season 1 being a bit rough didn't help.


Hopefully it picks up in season two.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 25, 2022)

bemused said:


> Stange new World's is pretty good. I can't get into Discovery it's technology solves every problem, no one can beat them etc.



Yeah in some of the best episodes of SNW they're outgunned or outclassed or just have no idea what the fuck they're up against. Which is exactly what would happen if you were a young spacefaring culture still getting your technological shit together.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 25, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> How much of it would  you say you enjoyed? (roughly).


enough that i watched crusade


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## MickiQ (Aug 25, 2022)

Just watched the first episode of SNW if it goes on like this it has a great deal of promise. Kirk's older brother Sam made a brief appearance in TOS as a corpse played by Shatner with a dodgy stuck on moustache.
Loved it when the character complete with dodgy moustache appeared at the end of SNW


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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 25, 2022)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> enough that i watched crusade


Whats crusade?


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## MickiQ (Aug 25, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Whats crusade?


Babylon 5 Crusade was a spinoff from the main series starring Gary Cole and Daniel Dae Kim.
It ran for a single 13 episode series before it was cancelled.


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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 26, 2022)

I think I'm starting to settle in to DS9 already, enjoyed the second episode lastnight - it was somewhat of a murder mystery.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> I think I'm starting to settle in to DS9 already, enjoyed the second episode lastnight - it was somewhat of a murder mystery.


There are some good episodes. The best one is a time travel back to TOS!  It’s a comment on Sisco’s very odd delivery, though, that putting him next to Kirk only emphasises that !  He totally ruins a perfectly good gag with his timing.


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## emanymton (Aug 26, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Babylon 5 Crusade was a spinoff from the main series starring Gary Cole and Daniel Dae Kim.
> It ran for a single 13 episode series before it was cancelled.


Technical I think it was cancelled before it ran for a single series.


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## Yossarian (Aug 26, 2022)

A Vulcan is taking Lt. Uhura and Scotty to space.









						‘Star Trek’ Cast Members Ashes Will Be Flown Into Space As Part Of Memorial Mission
					

The ashes of actors Nichelle Nichols (Lt. Uhura) James Doohan (Scotty), Majel Barrett Roddenberry (Nurse Chapel), and the TV series creator Gene Roddenberry and visual-effects wiz Douglas Trumbull …




					deadline.com


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 29, 2022)

I recently found myself questioning if I should be watching DS9 at the end of In the Hands of the Prophets. It was the moment Sisko dived through the air in slow-mo to come to the rescue shouting "NOOOOOOOO!!" in response to the assasination attempt on Vadek Bareil by the religious fanatic loyal to Vadek Winn (the Bajoran fundamentalist cleric).

So I wondered if I should skip ahead to Voyager. But at the same time that seems like getting through Star Trek too quickly and it was funny atleast. Thats the thing about Star Trek innit, its good but also corny as fuck, which is admittedly another way it is enjoyable.


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## cybershot (Sep 29, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> In the Hands of the Prophets


Season 1 is pretty terrible for all 80s/90s Trek.

It gets better.


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 29, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Season 1 is pretty terrible for all 80s/90s Trek.
> 
> It gets better.


Swagtastic


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## Reno (Oct 3, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Season 1 is pretty terrible for all 80s/90s Trek.
> 
> It gets better...


...by season 3 (TNG - Voyager)


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## AmateurAgitator (Dec 22, 2022)

Am definitely enjoying DS9. Btw this was uploaded to YouTube 11 days ago, thought I'd share :


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## Ax^ (Dec 22, 2022)

Reno said:


> ...by season 3 (TNG - Voyager)



TNG a bit harsh as the second season was in the middle of writer strike and the decliing health of Gene


first 2 season of Voyager problem was the Kazon where so shite  , if the borg could not be arsed to assimilate them ffs


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## danny la rouge (Dec 22, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> TNG a bit harsh as the second season was in the middle of writer strike and the decliing health of Gene
> 
> 
> first 2 season of Voyager problem was the Kazon where so shite  , if the borg could not be arsed to assimilate them ffs


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

I'm having a Kazon hair life.


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## Karl Masks (Dec 22, 2022)

bemused said:


> Stange new World's is pretty good. I can't get into Discovery it's technology solves every problem, no one can beat them etc.


OTOH, I can't get into Discovery because it's fucking atrocious.

I have yet to see Strange New Worlds because I've yet to get around to torrenting it


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## Ax^ (Dec 22, 2022)

if you find discovery atrocious you may like strange new worlds better less arch and episodes with a nice clean resolution


if they where going for a throw back

they could of at least included the "well folks what have we learnt today recap" that was so prevalent in early television up to the noughties


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## MickiQ (Dec 22, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> OTOH, I can't get into Discovery because it's fucking atrocious.
> 
> I have yet to see Strange New Worlds because I've yet to get around to torrenting it


Do so it's worth the effort


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## Ax^ (Dec 22, 2022)

aye tbf trying to get my OG star trek fan Da 

to watch it for the last few months


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## Karl Masks (Dec 22, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> if you find discovery atrocious you may like strange new worlds better less arch and episodes with a nice clean resolution
> 
> 
> if they where going for a throw back
> ...


I watched the first 2 seasons of Discovery and hated it. SNW does look better, but I just don't have the time to download stuff much. Shame it's not on netflix as i've no interest in streaming Paramount. Maybe I'll get round to it, or pick up the dvd


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## Ax^ (Dec 22, 2022)

find someone with a sky cinema subscription my man


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## Cerv (Dec 22, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Am definitely enjoying DS9. Btw this was uploaded to YouTube 11 days ago, thought I'd share :



"you may now give birth" remains one of the all time great comic lines


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## nightowl (Dec 23, 2022)

I've started catching up with a few of the ST:TNG episodes I haven't seen before recently and it's kind of sad looking back at that time. It was almost like ST:TNG was around at a moment when there was hope about the future in terms of equality, the environment etc and the programme reflected many of the themes of that age. There was a kind of naive thought at the time that maybe humanity was going to enter a better era. Now, nearly 30 years after it finished though, it's same old world and I guess a lot of ST:TNG content would be dismissed as 'snowflake specials' by some of today's right-wing voices.


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## Ax^ (Dec 23, 2022)

aye right wing bastards have not change a lot in the last 30 years just change tactics and its holding back the future sadly


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## AmateurAgitator (Dec 23, 2022)

Yep, aswell as the state capitalist left and liberals..


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## T & P (Dec 23, 2022)

As it’s Christmas, I give you the one pearoast on the whole of the internets that nobody minds watching again and again


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## 8ball (Dec 24, 2022)

T & P said:


> As it’s Christmas, I give you the one pearoast on the whole of the internets that nobody minds watching again and again




I really needed that.  Thanks.


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## nightowl (Dec 24, 2022)

Anyone got any one-off characters they wish had been given another appearance? Watched ST:TNG First Contact (the TV episode, not the film) the other day and thought Mirasta Yale was an interesting and endearing character who could have been worth a revisit.

Mirasta Yale


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## strung out (Dec 24, 2022)

The ensign who spilled hot chocolate on Captain Picard in Q Who, the first Borg episode. 





They did actually bring her back in Lower Decks as a captain apparently.


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## Karl Masks (Dec 24, 2022)

strung out said:


> The ensign who spilled hot chocolate on Captain Picard in Q Who, the first Borg episode.
> 
> View attachment 356949
> 
> ...


She makes me wish I had three hands


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## CNT36 (Dec 25, 2022)

strung out said:


> The ensign who spilled hot chocolate on Captain Picard in Q Who, the first Borg episode.
> 
> View attachment 356949
> 
> ...


Well the plan was for her to be a recurring character that's why it is an obvious introduction  scene that goes nowhere in the episode.


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## nightowl (Dec 25, 2022)

Why did they ditch the idea?


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## AmateurAgitator (Dec 25, 2022)




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## CNT36 (Dec 25, 2022)

nightowl said:


> Why did they ditch the idea?


They had it in mind for her to be a love interest for Geordi and motivation for a dangerous operation to restore his sight. The actors weren't told so they played it as a mentor relationship that made it a bit weird and no-one thought Geordi would go for a coffee spilling clutz. She is in Samaritan Snare as well though.


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