# The iPhone's golden age is over, Apple will only charge fans more - Wired mag



## editor (Nov 4, 2018)

Interesting piece here: 



> The golden age of iPhones, and to a lesser effect smartphones in general, is reportedly coming to an end. Reports by IDC and Strategy Analytics estimate the number of phones sold in Q4 2018 as either six or eight per cent lower than the same quarter in 2017.
> 
> In order to continue growing, Apple needs to wring out more revenue from its customers going forward instead. Those who have checked Apple’s latest prices, of up to £1,849 for iPad Pros and £1,499 iPhone XS Max phones, will not need to be convinced of this.
> 
> ...


The iPhones golden age of sales is over, now Apple will only charge fans more | WIRED UK


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## sim667 (Nov 5, 2018)

Yep, I'd agree with that, the cost jump for the iPhone X was simply outrageous.

I've got an iPhone 8, I'm heavily invested in the eco system since I got the original iphone on release day, and when pushed came to shove when I last needed a new phone I couldn't be faffed to learn a new platform, but unless there's a new more affordable phone in the next two years, I'll definitely be comparing the market. Also my girlfreind is currently looking at new phones, so I'll see how she gets on with hers.

I must say though, I've got a watch now to go with my phone and really like it, when compared to people I know who've got the samsung watches, those don't seem to be a patch on the apple watch (although I'll bet they're half the price).


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 5, 2018)

I agree with this. There's really only so many improvements you can make to a phone at this point that will convince punters it's worth paying £700-£1000 more for the extra benefit. The last truly worthwhile thing worth getting and which wasn't even a phone was airpods - IMO.

For me, barring the inevitable slowing down of my current phone (7 Plus) to the point where I'm forced to get a new one, which at this point would be the XR, the only thing that's interesting me right now is the coming roll-out of 5G, and the possibility of flexible fold-able tablet/phones.

Most other improvements are just fluff.


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## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Yep, I'd agree with that, the cost jump for the iPhone X was simply outrageous.
> 
> I've got an iPhone 8, I'm heavily invested in the eco system since I got the original iphone on release day, and when pushed came to shove when I last needed a new phone I couldn't be faffed to learn a new platform, but unless there's a new more affordable phone in the next two years, I'll definitely be comparing the market. Also my girlfreind is currently looking at new phones, so I'll see how she gets on with hers.
> 
> I must say though, I've got a watch now to go with my phone and really like it, when compared to people I know who've got the samsung watches, those don't seem to be a patch on the apple watch (although I'll bet they're half the price).


I think Samsung watches look much, much nicer than the Apple ones and they have a much better battery life too, but if you're after loads of apps for your watch (I'm not), the Apple watch is a much better choice.


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## sim667 (Nov 5, 2018)

editor said:


> I think Samsung watches look much, much nicer than the Apple ones and they have a much better battery life too, but if you're after loads of apps for your watch (I'm not), the Apple watch is a much better choice.


My watch lasts 3 days off a full charge, it aint bad


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## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

sim667 said:


> My watch lasts 3 days off a full charge, it aint bad


You must be doing something right as Apple - and reviewers - think 18 hours is pretty good going.


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## sim667 (Nov 5, 2018)

editor said:


> You must be doing something right as Apple - and reviewers - think 18 hours is pretty good going.


Blimey...... Unless you're running a marathon a day, I'm surprised they're getting so little battery life.

My watch is even second hand. I do turn it off over night now, but when I first go it I left it on and got 48 hours out of it.


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## pseudonarcissus (Nov 5, 2018)

This is just product lifecycle stuff. They have got them selves in the position of having a userbase who are prepared to pay, so they don't need to go for the cheap phone part of the market with the cut throat competition and tiny margins.  I got an iPhone 8 over the weekend. it´s much nicer than the 5s it replaces. Lithium ion batteries are great from the manufacturer's perspective as they have a finite number of cycles, so we get programmed to buy a new phone every 4 or 5 years, even of we don´t seem them as a fashion accessory. (I would have gone for the replacement, but the shop tells me they would keep the phone for 10 days. I can´t make a bank transaction without the phone now).

Apple's problem is what to do next; growth will only really come if they "invent" a new product line entirely. Electric cars probably won't do it, even if well executed.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

“We, it would seem, have bought into the idea of £900-£1,000 phones without as much as a whimper.”

Well, I haven’t!

I’m an iPhone user, but I’ve only just got my SE, my old 5c having begun grinding to a halt. I really like it. I had bad experiences with Android, which is why I switched. Now my immediate family all have SEs, and we like being able to do things like sharing appointments, and so on. 

We don’t have anything else Apple, though. No tablets, watches or similar of any kind, in fact. 

But once this phone grinds to a halt I don’t know what I’ll do. I like having a headphone jack. I don’t want to pay stupid money for the privilege of not having one. I don’t use Google, Gmail, Google maps, or anything like that, so I’m not looking forward to having to submit to all that. 

Hopefully something that isn’t Android will come along at the point I have to abandon Apple.


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## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> “We, it would seem, have bought into the idea of £900-£1,000 phones without as much as a whimper.”
> 
> Well, I haven’t!
> 
> ...


You can pretty much avoid all of Google services on an Android phone if that's your bag. 

How to Use Android without Google Play Services - Make Tech Easier
Here’s How You Can Use Android But Ditch Google


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 5, 2018)

What keeps me locked into Apple is the little things like Airdrop, Find My Friends, Facetime, and automatic Airpod syncing. If Android phones could do all that cross-platform with the rest of my family and work colleagues' then I'd be much more warm to jumping ship back to Android.


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## 8ball (Nov 5, 2018)

Sooner or later, you can't easily make big leaps with a technology, and sooner or later you start to get market saturation.  With smartphones these points have been hit at the same time, so I expect the whole industry will take a bit of a thump in coming years if there are no surprise technical advances.


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 5, 2018)

5G and flexi screens on the way.


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## Crispy (Nov 5, 2018)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Apple's problem is what to do next


Augmented Reality glasses


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## cybershot (Nov 5, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> What keeps me locked into Apple is the little things like Airdrop, Find My Friends, Facetime, and automatic Airpod syncing. If Android phones could do all that cross-platform with the rest of my family and work colleagues' then I'd be much more warm to jumping ship back to Android.



It's up to Apple to open that up though, Android can't integrate with something if Apple won't let them. There's ways and means of doing stuff, and using alternative apps to the Apple standard to do all that cross-platform, but then that relies on different backends.

Apple will never open up because, well, why would they. It's part of the ecosystem that keeps you in, and also, it's part of what makes it the most secure mobile OS and why business/govt (despite two faced ness of wanting a back door when it suits them) and journalists especially, use their products as standard.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> 5G and flexi screens on the way.


I don’t know what 5G will do, but flexi screens don’t interest me. One reason (outside of cost) is that the 5c/SE screen is exactly the right size for me. I don’t want a bigger phone. I want something that slips into my pocket, that fits in my hand, that’s useable one-handed. If I wanted a tablet I’d get a tablet, but I don’t see the point in tablets. I have a phone. I have a laptop. What do I want another device  in between for? Not saying nobody has a use for them, just that I don’t. Similarly, if people want big screen phones for their two handed use and their giant pockets, fine. But when SE’s go out, that’s me out too, because Apple (and maybe other companies too, for all I know) have decided my preference isn’t going to be catered for.


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## Crispy (Nov 5, 2018)

Sony still makes good small phones. My Xperia XZ1 Compact isn't much bigger than an SE and can hold its own with "proper" smartphones.


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I don’t know what 5G will do, but flexi screens don’t interest me. One reason (outside of cost) is that the 5c/SE screen is exactly the right size for me. I don’t want a bigger phone. I want something that slips into my pocket, that fits in my hand, that’s useable one-handed. If I wanted a tablet I’d get a tablet, but I don’t see the point in tablets. I have a phone. I have a laptop. What do I want another device  in between for? Not saying nobody has a use for them, just that I don’t. Similarly, if people want big screen phones for their two handed use and their giant pockets, fine. But when SE’s go out, that’s me out too, because Apple (and maybe other companies too, for all I know) have decided my preference isn’t going to be catered for.



I hear you. Everyone's needs are different. The SE is a great phone too, and I think there's a huge market for small phones.


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## 8ball (Nov 5, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> 5G and flexi screens on the way.



Yeah, I think any game-changing implementations of either of those might be a little way off, though.


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## strung out (Nov 5, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I don’t know what 5G will do, but flexi screens don’t interest me. One reason (outside of cost) is that the 5c/SE screen is exactly the right size for me. I don’t want a bigger phone. I want something that slips into my pocket, that fits in my hand, that’s useable one-handed. If I wanted a tablet I’d get a tablet, but I don’t see the point in tablets. I have a phone. I have a laptop. What do I want another device  in between for? Not saying nobody has a use for them, just that I don’t. Similarly, if people want big screen phones for their two handed use and their giant pockets, fine. But when SE’s go out, that’s me out too, because Apple (and maybe other companies too, for all I know) have decided my preference isn’t going to be catered for.


I am in a fairly similar boat wrt size of phones to be honest.

I changed from Android to Apple a year or so ago, because I found that the size of most high-end smartphones was increasingly becoming larger, and too unwieldy for what I want. I do have an iPhone 8, which is reasonably large already, but I don't want anything larger. I've already found that the new iPhones are all bigger again than the iPhone 8 I've already got, and it leaves me wondering who in the market is making high end smartphones that actually fit in my pocket and bag pouches anymore?


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## Crispy (Nov 5, 2018)

strung out said:


> who in the market is making high end smartphones that actually fit in my pocket and bag pouches anymore?


AFAICT, it's just Sony.


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## pseudonarcissus (Nov 5, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Augmented Reality glasses


I wonder. Google suggests 37 million adults in the UK have a smartphone, of which 43% are iPhones, so 16 million. I can't imagine 16 million people are going to be wearing pretty much identical specs. I´m sure they have their uses, I just don´t think I need them. Will they be sold through Specsavers? Or will you have eye tests, and prescription lenses made up, at the Apple store?

I had a Walkman before I got an iPod.
I knew I wanted, and I had, a smartphone (Palm Trio) before my first iPhone.

I suspéct it's got to be services...ApplePay, iCloud, digital rights management of music and TVs, games, all putting pressure on processor speeds and storage requirements which will prop up the hardware business. But Amazon are already pretty good at a lot of that, and we are used to buying stuff from them. I have a Netflix subscription and the Apple TV hasn't come anywhere close to making me think of getting one. It´s much harder to be ubiquitous.

Anyway, in 4 years I´ll be in the market for an iPhone xR. I might have got over my aversion to face ID by then.


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## cybershot (Nov 5, 2018)

strung out said:


> I am in a fairly similar boat wrt size of phones to be honest.
> 
> I changed from Android to Apple a year or so ago, because I found that the size of most high-end smartphones was increasingly becoming larger, and too unwieldy for what I want. I do have an iPhone 8, which is reasonably large already, but I don't want anything larger. I've already found that the new iPhones are all bigger again than the iPhone 8 I've already got, and it leaves me wondering who in the market is making high end smartphones that actually fit in my pocket and bag pouches anymore?



The XR and X(S) arn't much bigger than the 8, you'll be fine, and get much bigger screen estate. Not sure what the price difference was though on an 8 at launch and the XR


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## strung out (Nov 5, 2018)

Crispy said:


> AFAICT, it's just Sony.


Yeah, I moved from a Sony Xperia Z5 compact before that, but the XZ2 Compact just didn't feel as nice as previous compact smartphones, hence the move to Iphone. Not a lot of choice out there


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 5, 2018)

I recently switched to SIM only and didn’t bother upgrading. My 6s does everything I want, has Touch ID - which is to me obviously superior to Face ID - and still runs like it was new.

I guess one day it’ll die, but until then I can’t think of a single feature the newer models have that is of any interest whatsoever.


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## strung out (Nov 5, 2018)

cybershot said:


> The XR and X(S) arn't much bigger than the 8, you'll be fine, and get much bigger screen estate. Not sure what the price difference was though on an 8 at launch and the XR


I know it's a really picky detail, but I do a lot of long distance running, and many of the running packs I've got have got pretty dinky pouches for phones. It's a bit of a squeeze for the iPhone 8 already, so it's important to have a phone that I can use on my 20+ mile runs. The extra few millimeters could make a big difference, so will need to do some testing.


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## cheesethief (Nov 5, 2018)

The issue Apple have got is that they're locked into one direction only - an increasingly premium product at ever more extreme prices. A company like Samsung has no qualms about selling big bucks flagship devices at the same time as budget level, no-frills ones. Which gives them more flexibility, more ability to adapt to changing market conditions.


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## 8ball (Nov 5, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I recently switched to SIM only and didn’t bother upgrading. My 6s does everything I want, has Touch ID - which is to me obviously superior to Face ID - and still runs like it was new.
> 
> I guess one day it’ll die, but until then I can’t think of a single feature the newer models have that is of any interest whatsoever.



Is 3d touch any use at all?
I have an old 5s - there would need to be something pretty cool out there for me to change it unless it conks out.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 5, 2018)

8ball said:


> Is 3d touch any use at all?
> I have an old 5s - there would need to be something pretty cool out there for me to change it unless it conks out.


I use the 3D Touch all the time, seems a shame they’ve dropped it.


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## 8ball (Nov 5, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I use the 3D Touch all the time, seems a shame they’ve dropped it.



Didn't know they'd dropped it.
Then again, didn't really know what it was, either.


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## elbows (Nov 5, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Augmented Reality glasses



Yeah. They've certainly bought enough companies with specialised knowledge in enough related areas over the years. And made all the right noises about AR, and setup an AR dev and app ecosystem within the limitations of simple AR on iOS phones etc. And their bloody 'image' and 'style' probably gives them confidence that they can pull off these trickier forms of wearable computing without automatically being slaughtered by peoples sense of fashion.

I know there have probably been many examples of 'post-Steve Jobs tests' of Apples ability to still 'innovate' or otherwise wow people by now. But for me something with a very different form factor than what was around in Jobs time is the real big test for them. I am pretty neutral on the Apple Watch, which would be one example I suppose but not an exciting enough form factor to really be the great test for me. I dont know what to expect really when it comes to Apple AR, including not wanting to predict a year. If they stay true to best possible form then the first version will have several things that make the experience actually work well enough to make its mark. Some flaws too, including somes that seem silly enough for people to laugh at. But must be a lot better than, for example, the sort of turd it sounds like Magic Leap currently have on their hands.


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## Supine (Nov 5, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> My 6s does everything I want, has Touch ID - which is to me obviously superior to Face ID - and still runs like it was new.



Same here. When this 6 dies I'll probably just  buy another one


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 5, 2018)

They dropped 3D Touch? I use that all the time


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## sim667 (Nov 6, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I recently switched to SIM only and didn’t bother upgrading. My 6s does everything I want, has Touch ID - which is to me obviously superior to Face ID - and still runs like it was new.
> 
> I guess one day it’ll die, but until then I can’t think of a single feature the newer models have that is of any interest whatsoever.



I did that, but eventually my phone just became super slow (iphone 6, and I abuse phones)

When I did go for an upgrade I found it was cheaper to actually get a credit card and by the iphone outright on that, and then stick with my sim only contract. My data/calls and sms allowance dicks on anyone elses contracts I know, and I've got a similar spec phone for less money.


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## hendo (Nov 9, 2018)

I think Apple is totally taking the piss with prices now and I'm not going to have anything further to do with them. I'm defecting to the Pixel 3 when the time comes for a new phone. My iphone is covered in google apps anyway and with the arguable exception of facetime I doubt I'll miss the Cupertino offering.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2018)

Peak iPhone has apparently been passed



> When Apple announced that it would stop announcing quarterly unit sales numbers for its iPhones, observers speculated a whole raft of reasons — many are coalescing around the idea that the iPhone has reached peak saturation with consumers.
> 
> 
> Consumer Intelligence Research Partners seems to have dug up new numbers to support that central thought: it reports from a survey of 500 Apple customers that as of the end of the third quarter, there were more than 181 million iPhones in active use within the United States.That’s an increase of 5 million from the end of the second quarter and represents a slowdown over the past year.
> ...



In US, iPhone install base growth slows to crawl | Pocketnow


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 9, 2018)

The way things are going, Apple are going to have to move pretty sharpish to stop a huge defection to Samsung and Huawei et al next year. Since Samsung announced their upcoming folding phone, I have not been this tempted to switch back to Android since I ditched my Galaxy Nexus in 2014.

(subject to some rigorous real world testing and reviewing)


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## pseudonarcissus (Nov 9, 2018)

editor said:


> 41 percent of units are three years of age or older.



that's a lot of people who's phones probably don't last all day on one charge. We may be post-peak, but there's a lot of demand still likely to be out there, and switching from one iPhone to the next is so damned convenient.


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## pinkychukkles (Nov 9, 2018)

Still rolling with my iphone 6+ here, from 2014... recently got the battery replaced under the cheaper Apple replacement programme which has boosted it's stamina a bit.

Sure, I would _love_ to get a shiny new one but since I got the 6+, I've been financially constrained and, if anything, I'm using even _less_ apps on my phone than when I first got it. What I do use it for is done adequately well enough so... no upgrade for me! Prior 2014, back in those good ole days of having more disposable income, I would cover my iphone in screen protectors, decals, cases; because I wanted to keep it in tip top condition to flog off and offset against the purchase of the new iteration each year but that all took time I no longer have either.

Have had moments of weakness and looked at the iphone upgrade programme and I financed the outright purchase of my 6+ with a new credit card that had a 0% interest deal but, again, am currently trying to reduce temptation to join the credit card carousel and reduce existing debt.

Jump ship? Naaah, not at the moment, it doesn't appeal but never say never though and I watch developments on other phones / platforms with interest.


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## cheesethief (Nov 12, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> The way things are going, Apple are going to have to move pretty sharpish to stop a huge defection to Samsung and Huawei et al next year. Since Samsung announced their upcoming folding phone, I have not been this tempted to switch back to Android since I ditched my Galaxy Nexus in 2014.


I disagree, I think you underestimate the allegiance that vast numbers of people have to Apple. It's more about ideology than technology. A fanaticism bordering on religion. Within the Android camp it's inherently easier to switch manufacturers because one is not tied to the limited output of only a single one. I suspect more likely Apple will see a steady decline in sales as the combination of their focus on premium products & the lack of any game changing improvements severely limits the number of those choosing to upgrade. Many Apple users with decent, but older devices will no doubt opt to stick with what they've got rather than bankrupt themselves buying the latest iPhone.


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 12, 2018)

cheesethief said:


> I disagree, I think you underestimate the allegiance that vast numbers of people have to Apple. It's more about ideology than technology. A fanaticism bordering on religion. Within the Android camp it's inherently easier to switch manufacturers because one is not tied to the limited output of only a single one. I suspect more likely Apple will see a steady decline in sales as the combination of their focus on premium products & the lack of any game changing improvements severely limits the number of those choosing to upgrade. Many Apple users with decent, but older devices will no doubt opt to stick with what they've got rather than bankrupt themselves buying the latest iPhone.



Perhaps so, but I'm speaking as an iPhone user myself and I'm largely happy with iOS and I've seen little design innovation from Samsung, Google etc which has made me even consider jumping ship in the last few years.

This is primarily due to the general lack of innovation however. There's still not enough in my view to distinguish the Note or Pixel from the iPhone and so I just stick with iPhone because that's what all my family have so I use it to Facetime, and it syncs better with my macbook. But who knows. Perhaps I'm over egging the market value of this. I know its the most interesting thing I've seen in a long while of phone design.


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## keybored (Nov 12, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Augmented Reality glasses



iPhone users have had this technology for some time.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

Peak iPhone has passed then. I'm glad to see their plan to just keep on charging more and more backfire. 



> According to the Wall Street Journal’s unnamed sources cited this morning, Apple has cut production orders for all three new iPhones that were announced in September. That’s the iPhone Xs, iPhone Xs Max, and iPhone Xr. Same sources cited by the WSJ said that the reason behind Apple’s decision was the iPhone maker’s difficulty in properly anticipating and predicting the exact number of handsets and components it needed.
> 
> Another important factor to consider is the fact that there’s apparently a “lower-than-expected demand for the new iPhones”, claims the report. Apple surprised its investors when it forecasted lower-than-expected iPhone sales predictions for the upcoming holiday season, and Christmas quarter.


Apple cuts production orders for all new iPhones | Pocketnow


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 19, 2018)

Lower than expected because can anyone really name what the new features are on these new ones, that the last new ones didn't have?

 Surely the main reason to upgrade now is because your current phone is slowing down rather than some must-have feature on the new models.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Lower than expected because can anyone really name what the new features are on these new ones, that the last new ones didn't have?


A higher price. That was a major new feature.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 19, 2018)

It's OK, Samsung will soon release their not pointless at all folding phone for an entirely reasonable £2K and all will be fine with the world.


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's OK, Samsung will soon release their not pointless at all folding phone for an entirely reasonable £2K and all will be fine with the world.



_Folding_ phone, you say?


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's OK, Samsung will soon release their not pointless at all folding phone for an entirely reasonable £2K and all will be fine with the world.


Is it 'pointless' like the 'phablet' smartphone category that Samsung created to the derision of many iPhone fans, which Apple then went on to copy wholesale?

They got it right with larger phones and if they can deliver the form factor, they'll get it right with folding phones too, and Apple will, no doubt copy that too. I'd love a folding phone.


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 19, 2018)

The Samsung F will be pricey and gen 1 looking sure, but folding screens are the future.


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> I'd love a folding phone.



I think I had one of those about 15 years ago.
It was ok.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

8ball said:


> I think I had one of those about 15 years ago.
> It was ok.


Come on. Don't play silly buggers.


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> Come on. Don't play silly buggers.



I think I'm a little late to that party. 

edit:  but more seriously, I think the flexible screen tech is a solution that is still searching for a problem at this stage (outside certain niche uses that won't really pull the money in).  I expect there to be more than a few issues with the first gen of these things, looking at that render.  Maybe a 'nice to have' if it was a lot cheaper and you were super-careful with it, but the price would need to come down quickly.

It would have to be quite incredibly thin too, or once you've put a case on it, it would be a bit thick for a pocket, and once you're carrying a bag, you might as well have a phablet or tablet.

You never know, though, I was sceptical that the iPhone would take off the way it did in the first place.


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 19, 2018)

There's not much innovation to be found in mini tablets or current form factor phones, yet they're getting more expensive. Hence the drop in interest in the current crop of high end phones. The most interesting thing currently happening is the massively competitive Chinese models like xaiomi which are by far outpricing Samsung, Google and Apple in the market.

Meanwhile, there's only one direction screen innovation is going for mobiles and tablets of the future, and that's foldable.


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Meanwhile, there's only one direction screen innovation is going for mobiles and tablets of the future, and that's foldable.



Well, of the immediately foreseeable future of things that are not already partly rolled out at this point in time.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> There's not much innovation to be found in mini tablets or current form factor phones, yet they're getting more expensive. Hence the drop in interest in the current crop of high end phones. The most interesting thing currently happening is the massively competitive Chinese models like xaiomi which are by far outpricing Samsung, Google and Apple in the market.
> 
> Meanwhile, there's only one direction screen innovation is going for mobiles and tablets of the future, and that's foldable.


The only other really exciting innovation I see going on is Google's camera tech which is phenomenal. I hope it creeps into mainstream cameras ASAP too.


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## farmerbarleymow (Nov 19, 2018)

I was given an iphone by work - I don't see what the fuss is about.  It's just a phone, and not a terribly reliable one at that.


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> The only other really exciting innovation I see going on is Google's camera tech which is phenomenal. I hope it creeps into mainstream cameras ASAP too.



Outside the bounds of 'screen stuff',I suppose the "bread-and-butter" improvements like 5G and better battery life could lead to a few possibilities in more incremental kind of way.


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 19, 2018)

8ball said:


> Outside the bounds of 'screen stuff',I suppose the "bread-and-butter" improvements like 5G and better battery life could lead to a few possibilities in more incremental kind of way.



True. Both of these things will be very welcome.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> True. Both of these things will be very welcome.


The obsession with thinness and style at the top end has long overridden genuinely useful things like a bigger battery or removable batteries.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> Is it 'pointless' like the 'phablet' smartphone category that Samsung created to the derision of many iPhone fans, which Apple then went on to copy wholesale?
> 
> They got it right with larger phones and if they can deliver the form factor, they'll get it right with folding phones too, and Apple will, no doubt copy that too. I'd love a folding phone.


But don’t forget that £2K price “feature”.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> But don’t forget that £2K price “feature”.


Oh you already know the actual list price? Fantastic. Where did you see it advertised?


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> The obsession with thinness and style at the top end has long overridden genuinely useful things like a bigger battery or removable batteries.



Instinctively I feel the same way as you on the removable batteries front, but I think that's an age thing, and removable batteries aren't coming back.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

8ball said:


> Instinctively I feel the same way as you on the removable batteries front, but I think that's an age thing, and removable batteries aren't coming back.


I know they're gone for good and it's a shame as I'd gladly accept a slightly thicker phone. Oh well.


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> I know they're gone for good and it's a shame as I'd gladly accept a slightly thicker phone. Oh well.



Yeah, I end up with a thicker phone anyway due to the massive armoured case I keep it in.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

8ball said:


> Yeah, I end up with a thicker phone anyway due to the massive armoured case I keep it in.


And that's another daft thing. People spend a fortune on a phone that's all about style, but then have to stick a case on it so it looks crap.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> Oh you already know the actual list price? Fantastic. Where did you see it advertised?


£5 to the server fund says it’ll be in that ballpark.

Premium product, new tech, etc


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> And that's another daft thing. People spend a fortune on a phone that's all about style, but then have to stick a case on it so it looks crap.



Or just be VERY careful.  Or have a phone with a permanently cracked screen.

There are phones out there specifically designed to be really tough, but they're a bit niche.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> £5 to the server fund says it’ll be in that ballpark.
> 
> Premium product, new tech, etc


Even if that fantasy figure you've plucked out of thin air for the LOLZ happens to be anywhere near the price, it will soon come down anyway. But if you think the public won't warm to folding phones, you'll be as wrong as Steve Jobs when he insisted that phablet phones will never catch on.


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> Even if that fantasy figure you've plucked out of thin air for the LOLZ happens to be anywhere near the price, it will soon come down anyway. But if you think the public won't warm to folding phones, you'll be as wrong as Steve Jobs when he insisted that phablet phones will never catch on.



Tbf - not sure I've seen many 'phablets' when out and about.


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## cheesethief (Nov 19, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> But don’t forget that £2K price “feature”.


I would not buy a phone at that price, it's just silly. _However_, as a foldable phone will be genuinely revolutionary - _irrespective of whether it impresses you or not_ - there is a justification for a significant premium. Contrast that with churning out a "new" model phone that's basically the same as its predecessor, albeit with a bigger screen & a few more frills, for the same price as a really nice 55" TV... that is just madness.


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## strung out (Nov 19, 2018)

8ball said:


> Or just be VERY careful.  Or have a phone with a permanently cracked screen.
> 
> There are phones out there specifically designed to be really tough, but they're a bit niche.


Tbf, you don't need to be VERY careful. I've had my iPhone 8 for over 12 months now, and not used a case or a screen protector. I'm not particularly careful with it, just don't drop it.


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

strung out said:


> Tbf, you don't need to be VERY careful...just don't drop it.





edit:

In just under 3 years of smartphone ownership:

Knocked out of hand by people gesticulating in pub: 3 times
Flung across room when I just wanted to extract from pocket: estimated around 10 times
Dropped:  more times than Robbie Williams
Dropped and inadvertently kicked into road: about 5, maybe
Trodden on: 3 or 4

(I have mild dyspraxia - so if you take the piss it's rascism!)


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## editor (Nov 19, 2018)

8ball said:


> Tbf - not sure I've seen many 'phablets' when out and about.


You can't be looking very hard. Perhaps you can't even see your own phone!


> Current phablets typically have a diagonal display measurement between 5.1 inches (130 mm) and 7 inches (180 mm), [assuming a 16:9 aspect ratio.[13] In comparison, most flagship smartphones released in 2016 have a screen size of around 5 in (130 mm), with larger versions of mainstream flagships (such as iPhone 7 Plus, Pixel XL, and Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge) using 5.5 in (140 mm) displays.
> In 2017, LG, Samsung, and Apple each began to produce flagship smartphones (LG G6, Samsung Galaxy S8, and iPhone X) with displays taller than the conventional 16:9 aspect ratio used by the majority of devices, and diagonal screen sizes in line with those of phablets. However, in these cases, the sizes of the two devices are more compact than 16:9 aspect ratio devices with equivalent diagonal screen sizes


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## 8ball (Nov 19, 2018)

editor said:


> You can't be looking very hard. Perhaps you can't even see your own phone!



Maybe it's something popular down in 'that London'.


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## farmerbarleymow (Nov 19, 2018)

8ball said:


> In just under 3 years of smartphone ownership



I've got butter fingers and the only thing that saves my own phone is the leather case giving it a bit of bounce when I have dropped it.


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## keybored (Nov 26, 2018)

8ball said:


> Knocked out of hand by people gesticulating in pub



People shouldn't be looking at their phones in pubs anyway. Knocking phones out of people's hands in pubs should be lauded, indeed a new "pub sport" with some kind of scoring system, leagues etc.


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## 8ball (Nov 27, 2018)

keybored said:


> People shouldn't be looking at their phones in pubs anyway. Knocking phones out of people's hands in pubs should be lauded, indeed a new "pub sport" with some kind of scoring system, leagues etc.



I wasn't looking at it - just walking with it in my hand.


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## 8ball (Nov 27, 2018)

editor said:


> You can't be looking very hard. Perhaps you can't even see your own phone!



A week later and nothing more than a few "slightly big" phones spotted.

As opposed to:


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## editor (Nov 27, 2018)

8ball said:


> A week later and nothing more than a few "slightly big" phones spotted.
> 
> As opposed to:



The Apple Reality Distortion Field is strong with you today.


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## 8ball (Nov 27, 2018)

editor said:


> The Apple Reality Distortion Field is strong with you today.


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## editor (Nov 28, 2018)

This is a really good piece of analysis: 






Five reasons why Apple is ending unit sales reporting of Mac, iPhone, and iPad


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## 8ball (Nov 28, 2018)

It is kind of interesting.
And quite long.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 14, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> £5 to the server fund says it’ll be in that ballpark.
> 
> Premium product, new tech, etc


1800 dollars, which will mean the same in pounds. I reckon I was close enough


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 14, 2018)

strung out said:


> I know it's a really picky detail, but I do a lot of long distance running, and many of the running packs I've got have got pretty dinky pouches for phones. It's a bit of a squeeze for the iPhone 8 already, so it's important to have a phone that I can use on my 20+ mile runs. The extra few millimeters could make a big difference, so will need to do some testing.



Salomon Skin Pro 15 holds my smartphone nicely in one of the places for bottles. It's elasticated so don't worry about it dropping out and it's well placed to access for checking the map.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 25, 2018)

Indeed it is but it’s not just Apple, the age of the smartphone is over. The next stage of computing is slowly coming into view...


.


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## editor (Jan 22, 2019)

Eek!








> *Apple Kept Revenue Growth Only by Raising iPhone Prices*
> 
> In 2010, you could buy a brand-new iPhone 4 for 199 bucks.
> 
> ...



The End Of Apple


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 22, 2019)

Reminds me of the golden age of Nokia. They had their day for a good decade. Then they just became undesirable when better alternatives came along and it was a painful decline thereafter.

I do wonder how it will play out for Apple. There surely isn't that many more things they can do to justify their massive cost anymore.


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## editor (Jan 22, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Reminds me of the golden age of Nokia. They had their day for a good decade. Then they just became undesirable when better alternatives came along and it was a painful decline thereafter.
> 
> I do wonder how it will play out for Apple. There surely isn't that many more things they can do to justify their massive cost anymore.


They do have an insanely loyal user base though who will quite happily shell out way, waaaaay over the odds for their tech.


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 22, 2019)

I read today they may be moving Foxconn to India. 

Foxconn Looks Beyond China to India for iPhone Assembly


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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2019)

editor said:


> They do have an insanely loyal user base though who will quite happily shell out way, waaaaay over the odds for their tech.



I think they have a small cadre of fanboys who will do that, some really rich people who don’t even look at prices, and a majority who would
soon be nudged in other directions if they felt they were being ripped off.


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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> I read today they may be moving Foxconn to India.
> 
> Foxconn Looks Beyond China to India for iPhone Assembly



I guess Africa doesn't have suitable facilities/workforce just yet.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Reminds me of the golden age of Nokia. They had their day for a good decade. Then they just became undesirable when better alternatives came along and it was a painful decline thereafter.
> 
> I do wonder how it will play out for Apple. There surely isn't that many more things they can do to justify their massive cost anymore.



Think we’re basically coming to the end of the smartphone a curve so along with their massive reserves think they’ll be focused on what will happen over the next twenty years...


.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2019)

8ball said:


> I think they have a small cadre of fanboys who will do that, some really rich people who don’t even look at prices, and a majority who would
> soon be nudged in other directions if they felt they were being ripped off.



They’re probably going to devolve a lot of things to services...


.


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## Gromit (Jan 27, 2019)

I think we've pretty much hit the peak of smartphone innovation for now and that pretty much levels the playing field across the entire industry. (It happened to PCs)
Apple are milking their Brand for as long as it's worth and that is longer than is decent because people are twats about brands and so you would. Just as Nike do etc.

Queues for limited edition Nike trainers that cost hundreds etc. etc.

Doesn't mean Apple won't find a new innovation to hijack and build big. They're sitting on a massive reserve just biding their time for that next iPod, iPhone ting.


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2019)

Autonomous cars


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## Throbbing Angel (Jan 27, 2019)

Gromit said:


> Apple are milking their Brand for as long as it's worth and that is longer than is decent because people are twats about brands and so you would. Just as Nike do etc.
> 
> Queues for limited edition Nike trainers that cost hundreds etc. etc.



Reminds me of *Jennifer Government*

_"Hack Nike is a lowly merchandising officer who's not very good at negotiating his salary. So when John Nike and John Nike, executives from the promised land of Marketing, offer him a contract, he signs without reading it. Unfortunately, Hack's new contract involves shooting teenagers to build up street cred for Nike's new line of $2,500 trainers. Hack goes to the police - but they assume that he's asking for a subcontracting deal and lease the assassination to the more experienced NRA."_


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## 8ball (Jan 27, 2019)

Gromit said:


> I think we've pretty much hit the peak of smartphone innovation for now and that pretty much levels the playing field across the entire industry. (It happened to PCs)
> Apple are milking their Brand for as long as it's worth and that is longer than is decent because people are twats about brands and so you would. Just as Nike do etc.
> 
> Queues for limited edition Nike trainers that cost hundreds etc. etc.
> ...



I love my IPhone, but I’ve had it over 3 years now and I can’t see a single reason to change it. 

I think for some Android bods it’s likely to be the same story.  I was actually planning on getting an Android, but got given this as a present.

I’ve played with friends’ Android phones - they seem pretty variable.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 22, 2019)

Smartphones are well toward the end of the S curve...


.


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## 8ball (Feb 22, 2019)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Smartphones are well toward the end of the S curve...



Why do you think they're scratching around for stuff like this in the first place?


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 22, 2019)

8ball said:


> Why do you think they're scratching around for stuff like this in the first place?



Weathering the storm until the next S curve take off. The real problem has is it smartly rose two S curves in a row (iPod and iPhone) and the tech wasn’t quite ready for the next ones.


.


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## editor (Apr 15, 2019)

Looks like Apple are going to start throwing some of their pots of money around 



> Sources say Apple is spending hundreds of millions of dollars, and may exceed half a billion dollars in total funding, for its upcoming Arcade game subscription service, the Financial Times reported this weekend.
> 
> While the company’s plans to move into streaming television and films(as well as news partnerships) have drawn the lion’s share of coverage, that tally would be a massive investment, covering half of Apple’s reported streaming budget of $1 billion. Several sources told the Times that most of the more than 100 games planned for the service have budgets in the millions of dollars—a lot for mobile and the indie market Apple is targeting, but not extraordinary when compared against the video game industry writ large, where seven-figure budgets or more tend to be par for the course.
> 
> According to the Times report, some forecasters believe Apple’s push into gaming will deliver more subscription revenue than its streaming service—and thus the big-budget strategy is an attempt to blast its way into a crowded game market. Some developers are also signing on for lucrative deals with the company to keep their games exclusive to iOS for a period of at least “a few months,” meaning the titles would not initially be available on alternate platforms like Android or the Xbox and PlayStation game stores, the paper wrote.





> Apple will be competing with Google’s Stadia and other game streaming services; Google has big plans with that service, like bringing console-quality games to some Android devices. However, it has also scored some big-league partnerships, including the _Sonic the Hedgehog_ franchise, Cartoon Network, Lego, _Beneath a Steel Sky_ sequel _Beyond a Steel Sky_, and a number of others. One does wonder whether Apple is really dropping millions on titles like _Hot Lava_, a game about the floor being lava, but hey, that’s an unimaginably wealth company’s prerogative.



https://gizmodo.com/report-apple-may-spend-over-half-a-billion-on-its-subs-1834036931


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2019)

So is this for a thin client type console that relies on all the processing done somewhere else?


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## Crispy (Apr 15, 2019)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> So is this for a thin client type console that relies on all the processing done somewhere else?


Nope. Local processing. The CPU/GPUs in the iOS machines are more than up to it.
"Actual good games on your phone" is a pretty strong strategy, given the hideous state of the current mobile gaming. They're basically going for the traditional videogames business model - centralised platform control, with certain quality and performance requirements for software (ie. must run at 60fps, no in-app purchases, no offensive content etc), and direct investment in games developers.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 16, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Nope. Local processing. The CPU/GPUs in the iOS machines are more than up to it.
> "Actual good games on your phone" is a pretty strong strategy, given the hideous state of the current mobile gaming. They're basically going for the traditional videogames business model - centralised platform control, with certain quality and performance requirements for software (ie. must run at 60fps, no in-app purchases, no offensive content etc), and direct investment in games developers.



Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. It certainly would distinguish them further. The state of gaming on Android is abismal.


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## editor (Mar 16, 2020)

Now _that's _what I call a fine!









						Apple hit with record €1.1bn fine in France
					

France's competition watchdog says Apple engaged in anti-competitive behaviour.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Gromit (Apr 9, 2020)

editor said:


> Now _that's _what I call a fine!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A lot to us.
But it's only 1% of their reserve.

No one is happy to lose a billion but they are one of the few that can just shrug it off.


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## editor (Apr 9, 2020)

Gromit said:


> A lot to us.
> But it's only 1% of their reserve.
> 
> No one is happy to lose a billion but they are one of the few that can just shrug it off.


Maybe people will start to look closer at the obscene wealth of such companies - and the vast pay cheques of their execs - when we emerge in a post Covid-19 world. Well, I can dream.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 9, 2020)

editor said:


> Maybe people will start to look closer at the obscene wealth of such companies - and the vast pay cheques of their execs - when we emerge in a post Covid-19 world. Well, I can dream.



They'll probably get a bail out for lost profits...


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 9, 2020)

editor said:


> Now _that's _what I call a fine!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Almost enough to buy a stand for the new mac.


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## Gromit (Apr 9, 2020)

editor said:


> Maybe people will start to look closer at the obscene wealth of such companies - and the vast pay cheques of their execs - when we emerge in a post Covid-19 world. Well, I can dream.


Maybe.
However i think it more likely that big companies will use this as an excuse to build up huge reserves as a defence against economic disasters.
Apple have been previously criticized by share holders for not using more of its reserve to fund growth and add value to their shares (whilst not offering a dividend). Not circulating capital is against American economic philosophy but it will have biten them hard at present.


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