# blatent muggery: ticket inspectors at Liverpool St station



## maximilian ping (Sep 19, 2008)

I've been going though this station for a couple of years now and i'm getting royally sick of the way ticket inspectors there are going about their job. 

their job is to catch and fine fare evaders. but they don't really do this. instead they wait for the hundreds of people each week who have forgot their monthly travelcards ran out the day before to ask them for help. 

this help just means they fine people £20, when they know the person hasn't been trying to avoid paying there fare.

the amount of women that i've seen crying while being 'helped' by these ticket inspectors is ridiculous.

what's more is the cheeky fucks stare at everyone bouncer style as they get off the train and walk to the gates, on the hunt for someone who is looking shifty.

i've forgotten to renew my oyster many times, but because the first time i was mugged for £20, now i just have to jump/push behind to get past like a proper fare evader  

is what they are doing illegal, because if they are there just to stop people fare evading, it is


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## rutabowa (Sep 19, 2008)

yeh i've noticed this they are total wankers, my oyster card wasn't working and  the guy was just like "£20 fine" without even checking it properly, eventually it turned out it just hadn't swiped properly and i did have money on after all, they were totally eager to do the fine as quick as possible though. what can we do? i wrote a letter but got no reply.


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## Dan U (Sep 19, 2008)

it isn't exclusive to Liverpool Street.

they are cunts everywhere. there is no 'grey'


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## rutabowa (Sep 19, 2008)

but what can we do? if i was in charge i woudl probably just murder them.


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## rutabowa (Sep 19, 2008)

but really liverpool st is particularly bad because it is every single morning and all the ticket guys. most stations they are pretty reasonable unless you are unlucky, but there it is like a horrible merciless attack.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2008)

Dan U said:


> it isn't exclusive to Liverpool Street.
> 
> they are cunts everywhere. there is no 'grey'



Well, you see it more often in the big stations that get commuters, I'm sure they have targets and so on; I doubt anyone's going to be cocked with that sort of thing at smaller stations.

And yeah, I used to use Liverpool Street every day a few years ago and it was bad even then.


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## maximilian ping (Sep 19, 2008)

mate's just told me that by law they are supposed to give you a day's grace if you have over-run your monthly oyster. is this true? if it is, these inspectors are truly dogs!


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 19, 2008)

It's uncivilised. If you have clearly just forgotten by a day, say, then you should at the very least be given a voucher for your £20 fine which you can use to take the money off your renewed pass.


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## two sheds (Sep 19, 2008)

Is crying out for a string of people to go up to them at the end of a journey and say 'sorry mate - can you help me? i think i've lost my ticket', then wait for them to give their lecture and fill out their little forms before saying 'ah no, as you were, i found it again  '


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## teuchter (Sep 19, 2008)

Yup there have been a couple of threads about this before.

They did it to me at Blackfriars once.

I was going to make an appeal against the £20 fine ... but of course couldn't be bothered in the end.

On the other hand, for some reason, if you arrive at Victoria and find your travelcard has run out, you seem to have the option of going to the little ticket booth inside the barriers and paying for a single journey there.


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## Dan U (Sep 19, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, you see it more often in the big stations that get commuters, I'm sure they have targets and so on; I doubt anyone's going to be cocked with that sort of thing at smaller stations.



used to see them at West Dulwich about once a month.

see them at tram stops around Croydon now as well!


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## Dead Cat Bounce (Sep 19, 2008)

Worst case I ever witnessed was them trying to check Oyster cards inside Tottenham Court Road, not by the barriers but down in the the tunnel connecting the Northern Line to the Central Line at 8:30 in the morning.

Absolute chaos, not letting anyone through, people hurling abuse at them and everyone pushing each other to get past them onto the platforms.

Wankers.


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## bluestreak (Sep 19, 2008)

maximilian ping said:


> mate's just told me that by law they are supposed to give you a day's grace if you have over-run your monthly oyster. is this true? if it is, these inspectors are truly dogs!



No, it's not true, it's one of those lies that people tend to believe, along with "the law is supposed to give you x minutes grace before you get a parking ticket".  Why should they give you any grace?  They're here to make money.  Every single person who gets stopped claims to have forgotten to renew their oyster, how can you tell whose lying and who isn't?


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## teuchter (Sep 19, 2008)

bluestreak said:


> No, it's not true, it's one of those lies that people tend to believe, along with "the law is supposed to give you x minutes grace before you get a parking ticket".  Why should they give you any grace?  They're here to make money.  Every single person who gets stopped claims to have forgotten to renew their oyster, how can you tell whose lying and who isn't?



Well, if for example you have a month-long travelcard and it has expired on the day previous (and they will be able to check this with their readers) then it is fairly likely it is a genuine mistake. Particularly so if it is at a station with ticket barriers - if you were trying to fare-dodge then why would you try and get off the train at a major terminus where you know there will be barriers?

The sensible solution would be to ask the person to pay the single fare for the journey they've just made. I know they have the option to do this because on occasion this is what they have done to me. You will be out of pocket compared to what it would have cost if you had remembered to renew your travelcard, which would prevent anyone using this as a fare-dodging scam.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Sep 19, 2008)

When I was last in London, and staying at a friend's house in Chingford, I got well fucked off with the way you couldn't swipe in on your oyster in Chingford, so if you went via liverpool street you were fucked.  When the victoria line was working that was fine as you could get on the tube via blackhorse road, but last summer it wasn't working half the time, so it was fucking annoying

Stupid system.


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## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2008)

The simple answer is don't forget to renew your pass.  If you do whose fault is it?  It's not the ticket inspecter's.  I'm sure they get the old "Oh sorry I forgot to renew my pass" story from everyone.


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## jimblue (Sep 19, 2008)

i got a £10 fine in like ....2002 or 3 or something and it said it would be charging me interest, any idea how much i owe them or if im actually responsible for the collapse of lehman brothers?


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## quimcunx (Sep 20, 2008)

two sheds said:


> Is crying out for a string of people to go up to them at the end of a journey and say 'sorry mate - can you help me? i think i've lost my ticket', then wait for them to give their lecture and fill out their little forms before saying 'ah no, as you were, i found it again  '



This.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 20, 2008)

quimcunx said:


> This.



would result in you receiving a £20 fine.

failure to produce a vaild ticket on request having made the request you presenting one after that request is still failure to produce ... £20 fine...

that's capitalism it's not designed to be fair or reasonable it's designed to make more money...


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## two sheds (Sep 20, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> failure to produce a vaild ticket on request having made the request you presenting one after that request is still failure to produce ... £20 fine...



would have thought that would be difficult in court - would make it a £20 fine for just taking a couple of minutes to find your ticket when they ask on the train - you can't really give it to them *before* they request it. And if you've gone up to them they've not really requested it yet. 

You're quite likely right though.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 20, 2008)

I think it's summit in the railways act which says something along the lines of the ticket you purchase is a permit to travel rather than a right to travel which means that unless you can prove you have a vaild permit then you aren't supposed to have used the service.  It's also in there some where that the ticket doesn't even guarentee you will be allowed to travel at all merely that you will be allowed too if it's then presented.

It goes all the way back to the 1842 railways act and has never been changed it was in case they couldn't run the service and then had lots of people asking for their money back thus causing the operator money issues. and we thought the govt of today protected private business


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## teuchter (Sep 20, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I think it's summit in the railways act which says something along the lines of the ticket you purchase is a permit to travel rather than a right to travel which means that unless you can prove you have a vaild permit then you aren't supposed to have used the service.  It's also in there some where that the ticket doesn't even guarentee you will be allowed to travel at all merely that you will be allowed too if it's then presented.
> 
> It goes all the way back to the 1842 railways act and has never been changed it was in case they couldn't run the service and then had lots of people asking for their money back thus causing the operator money issues. and we thought the govt of today protected private business



Don't think this is true. According to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (these are the conditions which you and the train operator agree to when you buy your ticket):



> When you buy a ticket to travel on the National Rail Network you enter into an agreement with the Train Companies whose trains you have the right to use. That agreement gives you the right to make the journey or journeys between the  stations or within the zones shown on the ticket you have bought.



And if they can't run the service:



> if the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed or your reservation will not be honoured, you decide not to travel and at that time you return the unused ticket to any ticket office, the Train Company responsible for that ticket office will, if it is in a position to do so, give you an immediate full refund as shown in Condition 27;



What it says about presenting tickets when asked is:



> 22. Inspection of tickets You must show and, if asked to do so by the staff of a Train Company or its agent, hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any relevant Railcard, photocard or other form of personal identification in accordance with Condition 15. If you do not, you will be treated as having joined a train without a ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply.  If an Electronic Ticket cannot be displayed, you will be treated as if you were unable to hand over for inspection a valid ticket.


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## detective-boy (Sep 20, 2008)

bluestreak said:


> Every single person who gets stopped claims to have forgotten to renew their oyster, how can you tell whose lying and who isn't?


If their lips move, they're lying ...

(Loving the "blatant muggery" label for officials having the temerity to, er, check for valid tickets ... yeah, that's so wrong ... This place gets more and more fuckwitted by the fucking day!)


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 20, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> If their lips move, they're lying ...
> 
> (Loving the "blatant muggery" label for officials having the temerity to, er, check for valid tickets ... yeah, that's so wrong ... This place gets more and more fuckwitted by the fucking day!)



then cease adding to it with your own innane commentary and FUCK OFF...


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## pk (Sep 20, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> would result in you receiving a £20 fine.
> 
> failure to produce a vaild ticket on request having made the request you presenting one after that request is still failure to produce ... £20 fine...
> 
> that's capitalism it's not designed to be fair or reasonable it's designed to make more money...



Thats bullshit.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 20, 2008)

the trick is to fare evade as a matter of course. Do it well and you'll actually end up paying less in fines than would buying a months pass.


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## teuchter (Sep 20, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> If their lips move, they're lying ...
> 
> (Loving the "blatant muggery" label for officials having the temerity to, er, check for valid tickets ... yeah, that's so wrong ... This place gets more and more fuckwitted by the fucking day!)



In this case it's justified though.

It is very easy to forget to renew a travelcard when it is on Oyster, especially if it is a month-long pass. I do it repeatedly. The first you know of it is when you put it in a ticket barrier and it is refused. 

If, on the day it expires, you happen to board a train somewhere with no ticket barriers, you do not know until you try and exit at your destination. At which point you are mugged for £20. Of course, technically you have travelled without a valid ticket and legally they have every right to mug you, but it seems quite clearly unreasonable for them to do so when it is obviously a genuine mistake.

If you were trying to do this as a fare-evading scam, you would only be able to do it every 31st day, and pay the ninety quid per month for all the days in between. Hardly seems like a worthwhile scam to me.


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## pk (Sep 20, 2008)

Just pull out a 20 note and tell them the machine wouldnt take it.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 20, 2008)

The best way to evade a fare into London is to, say, get on a train in Hertfordshire to Liverpool St station. Oh noes, pesky barriers.

Cross platforms and get on a train to Bethnal Green. Oh dear, no barriers.


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## Nixon (Sep 20, 2008)

welcome to london


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## Citizen66 (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks.


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## Cid (Sep 20, 2008)

teuchter said:


> In this case it's justified though.
> 
> It is very easy to forget to renew a travelcard when it is on Oyster, especially if it is a month-long pass. I do it repeatedly. The first you know of it is when you put it in a ticket barrier and it is refused.
> 
> ...



It's entirely your own fault though... quite apart from that you still have to swipe your oyster card at the start of your journey (or it isn't valid) and even the little readers give error beeps. They stop thousands of fair dodgers every day, it isn't their job to be sympathetic. I presume you know for a fact this is why everyone is stopped as well?


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## Bungle73 (Sep 20, 2008)

Can they actually tell if it ran out yesterday, or say last month?


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## detective-boy (Sep 20, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> then cease adding to it with your own innane commentary and FUCK OFF...


Just who the *fuck* do you think you are, prick.

I'll stay here as long as I fucking like.  And I'll post what I fucking like.  If the mods don't like it they can deal with it ... but a cunt like you?  Fuck right off.  I'd suggest you have a fucking superiority complex if you weren't so fucking thick.  Superiority simple maybe ...


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## untethered (Sep 20, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> Superiority simple maybe ...



Good one, though personally I'd prefer you to tone down your gratuitous profanity.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 20, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> Just who the *fuck* do you think you are, prick.
> 
> I'll stay here as long as I fucking like.  And I'll post what I fucking like.  If the mods don't like it they can deal with it ... but a cunt like you?  Fuck right off.  I'd suggest you have a fucking superiority complex if you weren't so fucking thick.  Superiority simple maybe ...



you are the one dibble, moaning about the state of the boards love and if you don't like it you know what you can do ... 

miserable drame queen that you are though you need your vitrolic vaildiation in order to feel better about yourself so I'm guessing you haven't actually got the balls to walk away from that kind of attention seeker gratifaction yuou get from the flame wars you post...


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## PacificOcean (Sep 20, 2008)

pk said:


> Just pull out a 20 note and tell them the machine wouldnt take it.



This.

I come into Liverpool Street and always use this one.  They have never fined me.

Though most of the time it isn't a lie as the machine at Enfield Lock is never working.


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## pk (Sep 20, 2008)

Trick is to memorise an unmanned station you know only has a machine.

Keep your oystercard hidden. And never travel without money to pay the fare.

If you do get caught and they slap a penalty fare on you, don't lie about your name and addy, they check. But never, ever, ever sign the thing, or you're legally bound.

All they want is a signature, refuse to sign on the grounds that you disagree with the penalty, and that you will discuss it with your solicitor.

Without the signature they probably won't follow it up, and if they do it will cost them more than you'll pay.

As for the showing ticket late and still getting fined - thats total bollocks.

I used to do it loads, when I knew some of my mates had no ticket I'd take up the inspector's time until we reached our stop and bail out.


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## Jessiedog (Sep 20, 2008)

teuchter said:


> In this case it's justified though.
> 
> It is very easy to forget to renew a travelcard when it is on Oyster, especially if it is a month-long pass.



No it's not, it's a calculated decision. If the fine was GBP 200,000:00 - or a headshot, people would remember.




> I do it repeatedly.



A calculated decision based upon your risk assessment.

Twenty quid? Whatever!

Headshot? I'm not gettin' on without a ticket!

Society just tries to keep the wheels turning and to ensure that the balance of penalty ensures that enough people are bothered to try to get to work every day.

It's the free market(ish), don'tcha know?





Woof


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## Jessiedog (Sep 20, 2008)

pk said:


> Trick is to memorise an unmanned station you know only has a machine.
> 
> Keep your oystercard hidden. And never travel without money to pay the fare.
> 
> ...



FTW?



Woof


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## Cid (Sep 20, 2008)

pk said:


> Trick is to memorise an unmanned station you know only has a machine.
> 
> Keep your oystercard hidden. And never travel without money to pay the fare.
> 
> ...



Yeah, this... I used to Hackney Wick I think, but they may have barriers now... Never got fined.


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## teuchter (Sep 20, 2008)

Cid said:


> It's entirely your own fault though... quite apart from that you still have to swipe your oyster card at the start of your journey (or it isn't valid) and even the little readers give error beeps. They stop thousands of fair dodgers every day, it isn't their job to be sympathetic. I presume you know for a fact this is why everyone is stopped as well?



No, you don't have to swipe your card at the beginning of the journey if you have a travelcard. In fact you can't, at the stations journeys from which give rise to this problem, because they don't have oyster readers. Hence, you have no way of knowing that your card has expired, unless you happen to have remembered the date, a month ago, that you renewed it. You can't tell from looking at a piece of blue plastic when it is going to expire.

Even if you get a bus to the train station, it is likely that you will not realise it has expired, because when you swipe it on entry to the bus, it lets you on, but unbeknownst to you, by making a deduction from your PAYG credit rather than due to your having a valid travelcard. Thus reinforcing your genuine belief that you have an unexpired travelcard.

It is worth mentioning that the reason there is no Oyster swipe at many train stations is that the train companies have failed to get their act together to install the system. And then those same train companies are fining people for a genuine mistake, caused in part my their failure to take part in the Oyster system that TfL has been pressurising us all to take part in.

It is debatable whether the ticket inspectors' job is to be sympathetic. I would suggest it is their job to use their discretion and to be reasonable. Fining people for something which is easily demonstrable as a genuine mistake, and which could be dealt with otherwise (by charging a single fare for the journey) does not seem reasonable to me.


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## teuchter (Sep 20, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> A calculated decision based upon your risk assessment.
> 
> Twenty quid? Whatever!
> 
> Headshot? I'm not gettin' on without a ticket!



You fail to take into account that the journeys we are talking about end at terminii with ticket barriers. 

It would be different if the ticket inspectors we were talking about were based at stations without barriers. Then, there is a much higher likelihood that someone showing up without a valid ticket has done so intentionally, and in that case the potential of a fine has a useful function as a deterrent.


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## pk (Sep 20, 2008)

The thing one must bear in mind when dealing with the "yellow beret" is this:

They are thick as shit, they prefer to bully kids and lone women, and they try to impose unlawful and unenforceable fines.
If you sign on the dotted line you admit fraud, basically.
Don't let them.

Be assertive, look them in the eye, tell them "I'm only doing my job sir", reverse the tables on them.

They don't have the capacity to out-think assertion. Prepare a stock answer for them for every trip.

Make it pleasant and polite though.
Never fall into their trap and punch them in the head, this is what they want.

All you need to do is make them think you're a special case.
Don't protest, take them aside and argue your case quietly and out of earshot of other passengers, if you can.

If you get more than one then pick the most authoritative, and make your case to him. Maintain eye contact with him but don't undermine the authority of his minions.

Use the Shaolin Bhudda Finger if all else fails.


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## smokedout (Sep 21, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts, fucking cunts,



always good to have you remind us that the old bill arent really a bunch of aggresive, hysterical lunatics db


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## detective-boy (Sep 22, 2008)

smokedout said:


> always good to have you remind us that the old bill arent really a bunch of aggresive, hysterical lunatics db


I'd like to say that it's always good to have you remind us how many total cunts post total bollocks here ... but sadly you're not necessary ...


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## pk (Sep 22, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> I'd like to say that it's always good to have you remind us how many total cunts post total bollocks here ... but sadly you're not necessary ...



That'll be just one so far - and he wears a tit on his head.


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## kyser_soze (Sep 22, 2008)

So basically this is a thread about how the ticket inspector types blat people on the days when most people are likely to try and get through the barriers without a ticket, i.e. Monday morning.

It's like, such a consiparacy man, it's almost as if they might be attmepting to meet some kind of target, or have worked out that there will be lots of people without tickets. Of course, their names - revenue protection officers - _might_ give you an idea of what they're about. Sorry, but if you're a regular commuter you know when to get your fucking tcard replaced...


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## teuchter (Sep 22, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> So basically this is a thread about how the ticket inspector types blat people on the days when most people are likely to try and get through the barriers without a ticket, i.e. Monday morning.
> 
> It's like, such a consiparacy man, it's almost as if they might be attmepting to meet some kind of target, or have worked out that there will be lots of people without tickets. Of course, their names - revenue protection officers - _might_ give you an idea of what they're about. Sorry, but if you're a regular commuter you know when to get your fucking tcard replaced...



They shouldn't be "attempting to meet some kind of target", they should be concentrating on catching intentional fare evaders. They do not protect any revenue by fining those who have forgotten to renew monthly travelcards.

As a matter of interest, do you have a monthly travelcard and if so how do you remember the date you have to renew it?


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2008)

Cid said:


> Yeah, this... I used to Hackney Wick I think, but they may have barriers now... Never got fined.



didn't have barriers there the last time i was there, earlier in the year - do have oyster readers though

i bought a 1-2 zone monthly travel card today, for the first time in about 6 years, i've been working fairly close to home since 2002 - £93 fucking quid  i'm sure it was about £60 last time i bought one


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2008)

teuchter said:


> They shouldn't be "attempting to meet some kind of target", they should be concentrating on catching intentional fare evaders. They do not protect any revenue by fining those who have forgotten to renew monthly travelcards.
> 
> As a matter of interest, do you have a monthly travelcard and if so how do you remember the date you have to renew it?



if it's an oyster one, it starts reminding you a few days ahead - old card ones don't remind you, they are being phased out now - you can't get them on the underground any more, just mainline stations afaik


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## smokedout (Sep 22, 2008)

teuchter said:


> They shouldn't be "attempting to meet some kind of target", they should be concentrating on catching intentional fare evaders.



 I'm an intentional fare evader, they should be sticking to commuters if they know whats good for em


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## kyser_soze (Sep 22, 2008)

teuchter said:


> They shouldn't be "attempting to meet some kind of target", they should be concentrating on catching intentional fare evaders. They do not protect any revenue by fining those who have forgotten to renew monthly travelcards.
> 
> As a matter of interest, do you have a monthly travelcard and if so how do you remember the date you have to renew it?



When I used to have a monthly tcard I would visit the newsagents/station at least 2 days before it expired (you can have date-set tcards on Oyster as well as card ones up to 2 days before they start) and make fucking sure of it. Plus I've never had issues remembering to do something once a month.

And quite clearly they are protecting revenue, because there are all these people attempting to get a day's free travel on the basis of having 'forgotten' to top up/buy their new tcards...


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## maximilian ping (Sep 22, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> If their lips move, they're lying ...
> 
> (Loving the "blatant muggery" label for officials having the temerity to, er, check for valid tickets ... yeah, that's so wrong ... This place gets more and more fuckwitted by the fucking day!)



you're wrong on this one DB. if i was fare evading why the bollocks would i go up to a ticket inspector with some excuse? fare evaders AVOID paying their fare, they don't make it obvious they can't pay their fare. 

muggery? for the reason that these people are being fined £20 despite having virtual proof they were not fare evading (monthly oyster card just expired) AND the fact they were not 'caught' trying to sneak out a side exit, they have gone up to the insepctors saying 'what shall i do?'

it's a scam i tell ya

and for those 'just make sure you renew you card' posse - maybe next time you get kicked about by cops at a demo - just make sure you don't go on a the demo next time. simple


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## maximilian ping (Sep 22, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> all these people attempting to get a day's free travel on the basis of having 'forgotten' to top up/buy their new tcards...



jesus wept. why are they trying to get a day's free travel? all they want to do is have a window where you can buy a new monthly pass


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## kyser_soze (Sep 22, 2008)

These guys aren't after fare evaders tho - as I pointed out, they're revenue protection officers, not ticket officers (who will happily sell you another ticket) and they are out there protecting that revenue.


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## poster342002 (Sep 22, 2008)

It's not just people who travel without a ticket that get fined: if the oyster PAYG system does anything abnormal (you touch in and out etc but for some reason doesn't show up correctly) you STILL get fined and the onus then falls to you to faff around trying to appeal it - even though THEIR system fucked up.

And yes - these Revenue officers have a worse attitude than coppers, imo. They seem to take a distateful please in reducing peopel to a state of frustrated tears.


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## sim667 (Sep 22, 2008)

it doesnt happen at london bridge or charing cross..... i jump on the train all the time and pay at the other end.... :/


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## maximilian ping (Sep 22, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> These guys aren't after fare evaders tho - as I pointed out, they're revenue protection officers, not ticket officers (who will happily sell you another ticket) and they are out there protecting that revenue.



exactly, and it's a scam


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## poster342002 (Sep 22, 2008)

It';s also interesting to watch who they target (people who clearly look easy to bully) and who they, mysteriously, seem unable to see.

Bet the Revenue Officers are considered heroes by the cod left, too.


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2008)

93 fucking quid


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## teuchter (Sep 22, 2008)

marty21 said:


> if it's an oyster one, it starts reminding you a few days ahead - old card ones don't remind you, they are being phased out now - you can't get them on the underground any more, just mainline stations afaik



When you say they start reminding you... do you mean the tiny little messages on some ticket gates? This is true, but I don't think many people look at these as a matter of course. Speaking for myself, I am normally just looking at the little green/red lights to see if the card has read properly and it's going to let me through.



kyser_soze said:


> When I used to have a monthly tcard I would visit the newsagents/station at least 2 days before it expired (you can have date-set tcards on Oyster as well as card ones up to 2 days before they start) and make fucking sure of it. Plus I've never had issues remembering to do something once a month.



Was that on Oyster or when it was a printed card, with the date printed on it?  When they had the date printed on them, which you would see each time you took it out of your pocket to put it through a machine or show to a bus driver, it was much easier.

With the Oyster you have to rely on remembering a date for a whole month. Personally, I find that difficult.




kyser_soze said:


> And quite clearly they are protecting revenue, because there are all these people attempting to get a day's free travel on the basis of having 'forgotten' to top up/buy their new tcards...



No they are not. And the people are not attempting to get a free day's travel.

On the occasions where I have forgotten, and been fined (or more reasonably, been made to pay the single fare), I have then gone on to buy the travelcard anyway, as the cost of a monthly travelcard divided by the number of days in the month is generally less than buying individual tickets for the remainder of the travel that I'll have to do that day.


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2008)

what if i die before the month ends


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## maximilian ping (Sep 22, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> It';s also interesting to watch who they target (people who clearly look easy to bully) and who they, mysteriosuly, seem unable to see.



yes. they are lazy as well as cowards. when i've had to jump the barriers/go behind someone to avoid one of their 'fines' they never seem up for much of a chase through the concourse


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2008)

tbh, i'd be tempted to hop on the next train back to bethnal green station (no barriers) and then either buy a single, or get a bus (time constraints might make this not the best option, but you avoid the fine


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## poster342002 (Sep 22, 2008)

teuchter said:


> It is debatable whether the ticket inspectors' job is to be sympathetic. I would suggest it is their job to use their discretion and to be reasonable. Fining people for something which is easily demonstrable as a genuine mistake, and which could be dealt with otherwise (by charging a single fare for the journey) does not seem reasonable to me.



I think they're supposed to excercise some sort of reasonable discretion (IE use a bit of common bloody sense if someone's oyster/travel card is valid, has money on it but has not scanned in/out properly through no fault of the passenger). They rarely excerise this discretion, however, unless some violent-looking (but curiously invisible) thug has blatently strolled through with no intent to pay.


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## quimcunx (Sep 22, 2008)

marty21 said:


> if it's an oyster one, it starts reminding you a few days ahead - old card ones don't remind you, they are being phased out now - you can't get them on the underground any more, just mainline stations afaik




the message on the ticket barrier that reminds the person *behind you* that you need to renew your card?

I've tried to renew my card when I've remembered only to be told it was too soon to do so. 

What normally happens is, my bus fare comes off my PAYG, my tube journey to work puts me in debit, and I get stopped trying to go through the barriers at the start of my journey home.   If I worked somewhere without oyster scanners I wouldn't find out till I tried to leave the sation.


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## kyser_soze (Sep 22, 2008)

> Personally, I find that difficult.



Got a mobile? Set a reminder with a little bell. Write it on a calendar.

I've been caught without sufficient fare and I've known I've gotten on the train without it, as have most of these people I suspect. It's always worth a punt, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...hell, my most annoying capture was the day after my annual season ticket ran out (when I still had such a thing), I even had the fucking cheque for the new one with me, thought I'd bunk it just for that day since I would've been late for work queueing at the station etc, made a big fuss about annual travelcard and the dude said 'Yeah, but I'm talking about you not buying a ticket for _this_ journey mate, not the last 365 days or the next 365 days' and it was pretty hard to fault his logic.


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2008)

quimcunx said:


> the message on the ticket barrier that reminds the person *behind you* that you need to renew your card?
> 
> .



i can see it when i swipe my card


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## poster342002 (Sep 22, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> my most annoying capture was the day after my annual season ticket ran out (when I still had such a thing), I even had the fucking cheque for the new one with me, thought I'd bunk it just for that day since I would've been late for work queueing at the station etc, made a big fuss about annual travelcard and the dude said 'Yeah, but I'm talking about you not buying a ticket for _this_ journey mate, not the last 365 days or the next 365 days' and it was pretty hard to fault his logic.



It IS easy to fault that sort of logic - because it's the twisted, sadistic jobsworth "rules is rules - and ain't I loving it!" type of Dalek-speak. 

I can't understand why anyone's defending these arseholes.


----------



## kyser_soze (Sep 22, 2008)

No it isn't. It's the same when peeps whine about being busted with weed on them - you got on a train without a valid ticket for the journey, you've been caught.

As for anyone thinking this is 'capitalism', the ticket inspectors I've dealt with in Germany, France and Switzerland make these guys look like little lambs - one chap in Germany threatened to throw me off the train at the next stop for not having a ticket, despite my offer to pay on the spot...

I'm not defending them either - it's fucked up, but getting caught is getting caught.


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## quimcunx (Sep 22, 2008)

marty21 said:


> i can see it when i swipe my card



I've seen it on the person in front's card. Not as often as I've seen them instructed to seek assistance.  They never ever have, unless the barrier didn't open for them, which would suggest they don't see it.   I've never seen my own, and I can't see how I would unless I stopped at the barrier, took out my oyster card, held the oyster card on the swiper, observerd the screen, took the oyster card off the swiper then walked through the barriers, and tried to ignore the hate of the people behind me.  


While we're on the subject, oyster cards make it slower to get through the barriers, with the old tickets I never had to break my stride at all.


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## poster342002 (Sep 22, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> No it isn't. It's the same when peeps whine about being busted with weed on them - you got on a train without a valid ticket for the journey, you've been caught.



What if you've gotten on a train WITH a valid ticket and the scanning system has fucked up? A situation in which you are BLAMELESS yet are treated like a criminal, fined and told that YOU have to then faff around trying to prove your innocence?


----------



## marty21 (Sep 22, 2008)

quimcunx said:


> I've seen it on the person in front's card. Not as often as I've seen them instructed to seek assistance.  They never ever have, unless the barrier didn't open for them, which would suggest they don't see it.   I've never seen my own, and I can't see how I would unless I stopped at the barrier, took out my oyster card, held the oyster card on the swiper, observerd the screen, took the oyster card off the swiper then walked through the barriers, and tried to ignore the hate of the people behind me.
> 
> 
> While we're on the subject, oyster cards make it slower to get through the barriers, with the old tickets I never had to break my pace at all.



i see mine, when i swipe, it was definitely mine as no one was ahead of me


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## maximilian ping (Sep 22, 2008)

quimcunx said:


> the message on the ticket barrier that reminds the person *behind you* that you need to renew your card?



exactly!


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## kyser_soze (Sep 22, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> What if you've gotten on a train WITH a valid ticket and the scanning system has fucked up? A situation in which you are BLAMELESS yet are treated like a criminal, fined and told that YOU have to then faff around trying to prove your innocence?



So I take it this has happened _loads_ to you then poster?


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## teuchter (Sep 22, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> I'm not defending them either - it's fucked up, but getting caught is getting caught.



Yes you are.

All they need to do is exercise some discretion and recognise there are certain situations where it is highly unlikely the person has intentionally evaded a fare.

You are advocating a no-discretion approach.


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## teuchter (Sep 22, 2008)

Of course, anyone who intentionally fare-evades has no grounds to complain if they are caught out on another occasion when they are actually innocent.

If so many people didn't fare dodge we wouldn't have to have these guys at all.


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## poster342002 (Sep 22, 2008)

teuchter said:


> If so many people didn't fare dodge we wouldn't have to have these guys at all.



I suspect that if there was no fare dodging or accidental errors - and thus they had no cause to issue ANY penalty fares at all - they'd loose shitloads of money and have to put the fares up.


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2008)

maximilian ping said:


> exactly!



i can't understand why you can't see it, last week i got a weekly pass as i was starting a new job, it's the first time i have had a weekly pass on oyster, as i wasn't really commuting beyond a bus journey to work, since 2002

when i swipe the card, i look at the reader thingie and from about 2 days before the card expired, i saw the message

you must really race through those things


----------



## kyser_soze (Sep 22, 2008)

I reckon ping and cumx are 'touch and step', where you touch your card on the reader while walking thru the barrier, as opposed to stop, touch, move forward which is what you do (which enables you to look at the card details whereas ping and cunx can't cos they zip thru the barriers at light speed)


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## teuchter (Sep 22, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> I reckon ping and cumx are 'touch and step', where you touch your card on the reader while walking thru the barrier,



This is me too. I don't like to break my step in the slightest.

The downside of this approach is that you are brought to quite an undignified halt if the card doesn't read properly.


----------



## kyser_soze (Sep 22, 2008)

I do that too, I like my 'flow' when I'm on the tube and get quite annoyed when it's disrupted by a non-functioning barrier or, more likely, a non-functioning human being staring at the barrier, waving a not-workng card/ticket around...if it doesn't work after the 2nd attempt, MOVE AWAY FROM THE BARRIER...

Oh, and those peeps with bags with the extending handle on the exit side of gates or top/bottom of escalators...grrrr...anyway...


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## quimcunx (Sep 22, 2008)

marty21 said:


> you must really race through those things





kyser_soze said:


> I reckon ping and cumx are 'touch and step', where you touch your card on the reader while walking thru the barrier, as opposed to stop, touch, move forward which is what you do (which enables you to look at the card details whereas ping and cunx can't cos they zip thru the barriers at light speed)




I think kyser and marty are slowcoaches.


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## maximilian ping (Sep 22, 2008)

marty21 said:


> you must really race through those things



i do, it's like a super power


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## kyser_soze (Sep 22, 2008)

Nah, I step and touch as well...hell quimmy, you've never seen me on a 'What are these useless slow idiots doing on my fucking tube' rant before have you?


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## marty21 (Sep 22, 2008)

quimcunx said:


> I think kyser and marty are slowcoaches.



i am swift of foot  and so quick, that i can whizz through there, and catch what it says on the reader


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## Badgers (Sep 22, 2008)

My favourite time was when I got stopped with a valid ticket by a guard who had a faulty machine. 

I beeped through at Waterloo gates but when I got to Wandsworth they had guards on the entrance with the small scanners. 

It went something like: 

The guy scanned my card and it was not registering
He said that I had to pay a £20 fine 
I said I would not as my card was valid 
He said it was procedure 
I refused 
He told me to pay and them claim it back 
I refused 
He looked at me blankly 
I asked for his name so I could call TFL 
He told me that I had a trustworthy face so could just pay for the journey, not the fine. 
I refused 
He told me to pay and them claim it back 
I refused 
He looked at me blankly 
I looked at him blankly 
He told me that I had a trustworthy face so would let me off 
I could have punched him 20 times in the face but that would have been mean 
I went to work


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## quimcunx (Sep 22, 2008)

Badgers said:


> I could have punched him 20 times in the face but that would have been mean



you're a true gent, badgers..


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## two sheds (Sep 22, 2008)

Badgers said:


> I asked for his name so I could call TFL



Nice touch


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## Badgers (Sep 22, 2008)

quimcunx said:


> you're a true gent, badgers..



Do onto others....etc....


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## pk (Sep 22, 2008)

Anyone who thinks the yellow beret are not cowardsly jobsworths clearly doesn't commute too often.

Their favourite ploy is to ride between Gatwick and East Croydon busting tourists who have sat down in the first class part of the carriages - you know the bit that looks identical to the rest of the train apart from little 2 inch stickers that say "First Class".

They pick on tourists and tired youngsters laden down with baggage who have committed the heinous crime of purchasing a regular ticket at Gatwick fresh from a flight and sitting down in the First Class area which is not seperated from the second class carriage by a glass door as is the case on the First Capital Connect services or cross-country services where an entire first class carriage is clearly marked out.

I make it my business to inform them that if they don't sign the form then the penalty fare is unenforceable, and generally make their job as difficult as possible without physically threatening them.

In fact, as long as I have a valid ticket, I don't speak to them at all, pointedly refusing to talk to them whilst they are telling me to keep out of it.

I love throwing their jobsworth language back at them - "excuse me sir, I was talking to my fellow passenger not you" and generally give them as much of the fucking contempt they deserve.

It IS a fucking scam, they know it, and so does everyone who regularly takes that journey.

Please - those who think they are justified in defending this shower of cunts - go and work for Camden's Parking Enforcement department, they could do with people like you!


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## detective-boy (Sep 22, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Got a mobile? Set a reminder with a little bell. Write it on a calendar.


Why the fuck should they?  That assumes it is their responsibility to organise their lives.  When everyone knows it is always someone else's job and someone else's fault when it's fucked up.  

This is U75 ... self-responsibility is an entirely alien concept here ...


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## teuchter (Sep 22, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> Why the fuck should they?  That assumes it is their responsibility to organise their lives.  When everyone knows it is always someone else's job and someone else's fault when it's fucked up.
> 
> This is U75 ... self-responsibility is an entirely alien concept here ...



Arguing that a pointless fine for a genuine mistake is ... pointless, is different from refusing to take responsibility for organising one's life.

Perhaps you can explain exactly why a ticket inspector, at a station with ticket barriers, on discovering someone (who boarded their train at a station without Oyster readers) to have a monthly travelcard that expired the day before, should not exercise discretion and allow them to pay a single fare for the journey they have just made?

What terrible things would happen if they were to exercise such discretion? 

What revenue would the train company lose, that it was rightfully owed?


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## Cid (Sep 22, 2008)

Look, ticket evasion costs TFL around £70million/year, that's a fuck of a lot of cash and you can see why they don't want to let it go... Yeah there are some who are right cunts about collecting it, and really should just offer you the chance to buy a ticket/renew your oyster but the fact remains they are well within their rights to act like cunts. Tbh most station staff don't bother, even on the regular occasions I used to bunk the trains and was met by an unavoidable staff presence the worst case would be buying a ticket (this includes Euston, Kings X etc).


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## pk (Sep 23, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> Why the fuck should they?  That assumes it is their responsibility to organise their lives.  When everyone knows it is always someone else's job and someone else's fault when it's fucked up.
> 
> This is U75 ... self-responsibility is an entirely alien concept here ...



I really, really LOVE the fact that you are possibly - and you know full well you're up against some pretty fucking stiff opposition here - in recent months, you're possibly the most fuckwitted poster I have seen on these here internet screens.

And it's made even more hysterical by the "fuckwitophobe" tagline you somehow think makes you an expert on fuckwittery.

You appear to have become the very thing you've always feared.

There is an old saying - 

"the law is guidance to the wise, and blind obedience to the foolish"

Remember, you're not at work here, not with my taxpayers money anyway, so do your job and don't try and police this place from now on, will you, eh?

You take the baton and run like fuck with it, it's your job, but you have no jurisdiction over what constitutes conversation here.

Them's the rules, and if you don't like it you can fuck off. 
And on this I really do agree with Garf.

Law don't mean shit round these here parts. Its the innernet.

What say you, lawman?


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## Prefade (Sep 23, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Perhaps you can explain exactly why a ticket inspector, at a station with ticket barriers, on discovering someone (who boarded their train at a station without Oyster readers) to have a monthly travelcard that expired the day before, should not exercise discretion and allow them to pay a single fare for the journey they have just made?
> 
> What terrible things would happen if they were to exercise such discretion?



I agree that in a fair world discretion would be applied and common sense used. But just imagine if the RPO had been given explicit instructions by his employers that doing so was a sackable offence, if he that very morning before setting out had been in a briefing where this very point was rammed home on the basis that the department had fallen short of its targets for that month and questions would be asked of people's commitment to the role if an improvement wasn't shown at today's exercise.

Or imagine that one of the goons milling around the barriers wasn't there to take fines at all but was in fact a supervisor, tasked with observing the minions for a performance assessment or to ensure that none of them were breaking or bending the rules and allowing the kind of discretion that has been expressly forbidden to them.

Under those circumstances you can entirely understand the reluctance for anyone to use common sense or show a bit of human compassion.

I wouldn't for a minute want to defend any of the above as a rational and sensible way for an organisation to conduct itself but let's not pretend it doesn't take place in the real world.

Cunts in a position to be cunts aren't always doing so because they are cunts. They've just been told to exercise their cunt powers under threat of the sack by the real cunts who pay them.


----------



## dtb (Sep 23, 2008)

@ pk - do shut up.  

detective boy is one of the few people on U75 that posts intelligent and objective comments


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## maximilian ping (Sep 23, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> Why the fuck should they?  That assumes it is their responsibility to organise their lives.  When everyone knows it is always someone else's job and someone else's fault when it's fucked up.
> 
> This is U75 ... self-responsibility is an entirely alien concept here ...



once a copper always a copper


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## smokedout (Sep 23, 2008)

Cid said:


> Look, ticket evasion costs TFL around £70million/year, that's a fuck of a lot of cash and you can see why they don't want to let it go... Yeah there are some who are right cunts about collecting it, and really should just offer you the chance to buy a ticket/renew your oyster but the fact remains they are well within their rights to act like cunts.



it may cost them that much in theory but that doesnt mean if folk didnt fare dodge theyd suddenly make an extra 70 million

i fare dodge when i dont have the money to pay the fare, if i didnt fare dodge then i either wouldnt travel or id walk so tfl wouldnt see any more cash


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## teuchter (Sep 23, 2008)

Prefade said:


> I agree that in a fair world discretion would be applied and common sense used. But just imagine if the RPO had been given explicit instructions by his employers that doing so was a sackable offence, if he that very morning before setting out had been in a briefing where this very point was rammed home on the basis that the department had fallen short of its targets for that month and questions would be asked of people's commitment to the role if an improvement wasn't shown at today's exercise.
> 
> Or imagine that one of the goons milling around the barriers wasn't there to take fines at all but was in fact a supervisor, tasked with observing the minions for a performance assessment or to ensure that none of them were breaking or bending the rules and allowing the kind of discretion that has been expressly forbidden to them.
> 
> ...



I agree entirely. My objections are directed at the train companies. It is their  responsibility to ensure their employees are acting reasonably.


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## Kameron (Sep 23, 2008)

Well it should be innocent until proven working class shouldn't it.


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## Kameron (Sep 23, 2008)

Then again it is a mystery to me how you don't know when your Oyster runs out, I mean it is the same day every month, hardly rocket science.


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## Treacle Toes (Sep 23, 2008)

dtb said:


> detective boy is one of the few people on U75 that posts intelligent and objective comments



Sometimes yes....unfortunately I find his intelligent points get lost amongst the incessent swear words and name calling. I get distracted by this as he just seems so angry.


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## Cloo (Sep 23, 2008)

A couple of times when we lived in Wimbledon I forgot to renew or plain forgot my Oyster - but the Thameslink had regular inspectors who I guess recognised me from every morning and let me off two or three times, because I actually approached them before they came to me and 'fessed up. But I know some inspectors are just bastards about it.


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## teuchter (Sep 23, 2008)

Kameron said:


> Then again it is a mystery to me how you don't know when your Oyster runs out, I mean it is the same day every month,



Except in reality it's not; the date gets shifted if for example it expires on a Friday and I don't renew it till the Monday, or if I don't renew on account of going on holiday, or something like that.


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## untethered (Sep 23, 2008)

Kameron said:


> Then again it is a mystery to me how you don't know when your Oyster runs out, I mean it is the same day every month, hardly rocket science.



Society has always conspired against people without diaries.


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## quimcunx (Sep 23, 2008)

Kameron said:


> Then again it is a mystery to me how you don't know when your Oyster runs out, I mean it is the same day every month, hardly rocket science.



No it's not. 




teuchter said:


> Except in reality it's not; the date gets shifted if for example it expires on a Friday and I don't renew it till the Monday, or if I don't renew on account of going on holiday, or something like that.



It's this.


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## teuchter (Sep 23, 2008)

untethered said:


> Society has always conspired against people without diaries.



Of course, you can say that I should just write it in my diary (which I don't have) or put a reminder in my phone (which I could) but the fact that this should be necessary seems, to me, to highlight a shortcoming of the system.

It would seem preferable to have a system that worked well, than an unsatisfactory one that requires people to fiddle around setting alarms for themselves in their phones.

In any case, a reminder is not particularly useful unless it occurs at a time at which you are able to act on it; ie. when you are near to somewhere with ticket machines. So the obvious solution would seem to be a more noticeable reminder than the current one, when you attempt to go through the gates.

And in addition to this, perhaps the train companies could get their act together and install Oyster readers at train stations before they start fining us for travelling from the very same stations with Oyster cards we couldn't check were valid because of said lack getting act together to provide readers.


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## marty21 (Sep 23, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Of course, you can say that I should just write it in my diary (which I don't have) or put a reminder in my phone (which I could) but the fact that this should be necessary seems, to me, to highlight a shortcoming of the system.
> 
> It would seem preferable to have a system that worked well, than an unsatisfactory one that requires people to fiddle around setting alarms for themselves in their phones.
> 
> ...



they should have oyster readers at more stations, but until they do, if you are on payg oyster, you shouldn't start a journey from a station that doesn't have a reader to one that does


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## iskande (Sep 23, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Of course, you can say that I should just write it in my diary (which I don't have) or put a reminder in my phone (which I could) but the fact that this should be necessary seems, to me, to highlight a shortcoming of the system.
> 
> It would seem preferable to have a system that worked well, than an unsatisfactory one that requires people to fiddle around setting alarms for themselves in their phones.
> 
> ...



If you are buying a travel-card online there is an option to setup an email reminder a few days befire it expires. You then click a link in the email, and can renew your ticket. It takes about 5 mins. Hello, by the way. Please be nice.


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## Kameron (Sep 23, 2008)

I'm really not all up for defending TFL although I mostly feel that their failing are in failing to run a decent transport network at a reasonable price rather than any complaint about enforcement which I've never come up against. After all the gate has a soon to expire message that it flashes up when there are two or three days left on your card.


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## Cid (Sep 23, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Except in reality it's not; the date gets shifted if for example it expires on a Friday and I don't renew it till the Monday, or if I don't renew on account of going on holiday, or something like that.



Seriously though, you can complain about them being twats, but come on - the majority of people are able to remember their travelcards, why should you be so special?


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 23, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> I've been caught without sufficient fare and I've known I've gotten on the train without it, as have most of these people I suspect. It's always worth a punt, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...


Noone who used liverpool st regularly would ever risk it because the barriers are ALWAYS closed, people only ever do it by mistake, but they are easy targets because they are honest and turn themselves in to the collectors voluntarily expecting to be able to buy a ticket when they realise their msitake, that's the scam.


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## quimcunx (Sep 23, 2008)

Cid said:


> Seriously though, you can complain about them being twats, but come on - the majority of people are able to remember their travelcards, why should you be so special?



I'm sure most people do remember most of the time, but obviously a significant number don't remember some of the time, which is when these LU officers swoop, asking if they can help, then fining people who have made a mistake.  This thread isn't about when we remember, but when we forget. 


Hello Iskande.  Welcome.  And you make a good point.


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## teuchter (Sep 23, 2008)

iskande said:


> If you are buying a travel-card online there is an option to setup an email reminder a few days befire it expires. You then click a link in the email, and can renew your ticket. It takes about 5 mins. Hello, by the way. Please be nice.



Aha, yes, this is true. And is what I do some of the time and it works fairly well.

The problem is, though, that as soon as, for some reason, you renew your travelcard in a station, you drop out of that system. It will only send you the reminder if the last travelcard is one you bought online. 

Also, I find the website rather clunky to use and prone to not always working, but that is a separate point.


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## teuchter (Sep 23, 2008)

Cid said:


> Seriously though, you can complain about them being twats, but come on - the majority of people are able to remember their travelcards, why should you be so special?



It's not my fault I'm special.


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## Cid (Sep 23, 2008)

rutabowa said:


> Noone who used liverpool st regularly would ever risk it because the barriers are ALWAYS closed, people only ever do it by mistake, but they are easy targets because they are honest and turn themselves in to the collectors voluntarily expecting to be able to buy a ticket when they realise their msitake, that's the scam.



You'd be surprised, you can either try to get in behind someone or go through the luggage/kids gate, but if there are loads of inspectors and you can't get away with either you go straight to the nicest looking one with your excuse. It works a lot of the time too (or at least it used to).


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## rutabowa (Sep 23, 2008)

Cid said:


> You'd be surprised, you can either try to get in behind someone or go through the luggage/kids gate, but if there are loads of inspectors and you can't get away with either you go straight to the nicest looking one with your excuse. It works a lot of the time too (or at least it used to).



it doesn't at liverpool street, that's the whole point of this thread. and there are always loads of inspectors there... anyone who meant to fare dodge would not get off at liverpool street, they are only fining the innocent people!


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## Kameron (Sep 23, 2008)

rutabowa said:


> it doesn't at liverpool street, that's the whole point of this thread. and there are always loads of inspectors there... anyone who meant to fare dodge would not get off at liverpool street, they are only fining the innocent people!


I'm sure they are up for fining guilty people as well.


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## pk (Sep 24, 2008)

dtb said:


> @ pk - do shut up.
> 
> detective boy is one of the few people on U75 that posts intelligent and objective comments



Not lately he isn't!

Do keep up!


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## spengle (Sep 24, 2008)

you know what angers me is when there is no attendent at the ticket booth and the machine wont take a crumpled note. ticket inspector is one of them jobs that sort of says you havent achieved anything with your life like a traffic warden or someone who works for tv licensing lol


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## Badgers (Sep 24, 2008)

Ignoring my last post this thread is a little one sided..... 

I rarely get checked and do make the effort to renew my card every payday. Also I keep enough PAYG credit on the thing to get me to the ticket office if I forget, although guess some do not have that option? 

I have seen the 'undercover' people nabbing some blatent fare dodgers before though. I think a lot of us on here are guilty of knowingly fare-dodging from time to time but now I really care about the transport network. This might be because I need it or I am buggered for work and seeing family? 

There should be a bit of give and take, especially when your Oyster Card holds your travel history. 

Maybe ID cards would fix this?


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## ethel (Sep 24, 2008)

ah, but PAYG isn't valid on all national rail services. i lifted the wrong oyster card on day and had my PAYG rather than my travelcard. £20 fine


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## rutabowa (Sep 24, 2008)

Kameron said:


> I'm sure they are up for fining guilty people as well.



guilty people tend to be more cunning and not for example hand themselves in to a ticket inspector.


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## two sheds (Sep 24, 2008)

Badgers said:


> Maybe ID cards would fix this?



Good point, although better would be fingerprinting, DNA analysis and CCTV scans with face recognition for everyone entering and leaving the underground, with automatic checks of their routes and their bank accounts to make sure they had paid the correct amount at the correct time. 

I mean, if people aren't doing anything wrong they'd have nothing to worry about.


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## chico enrico (Sep 24, 2008)

maximilian ping said:


> I've been going though this station for a couple of years now and i'm getting royally sick of the way ticket inspectors there are going about their job.
> 
> their job is to catch and fine fare evaders. but they don't really do this. instead they wait for the hundreds of people each week who have forgot their monthly travelcards ran out the day before to ask them for help.
> 
> ...




they're just fucking scum. jobsworth lick-spittle wankers. i always delight in giving them a load of abuse whenever they stop me (always something about their personal appearance to hopefully spoil their day )and if i'm not on a rush telling them they can get to fuck until the get the copper over who i give more abuse as since when have the old bill become a private security/revenue collection company for LRT.

i'd love to see ticket inspectors given a good kicking then they wouldn't be so eager to stop punters. It's a disgrace and a shame this doesn't happen in london more often. You don't see many ticket inspectors on the trains in any European city and i bet that's cos if they tried it on there they'd get battered.


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## g force (Sep 24, 2008)

I dunno I got frog marched to a cash point in Vienna last week to pay a 70 Euro fine all because my ticket was an hour out of date!!


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## monsterbunny (Sep 24, 2008)

Does anyone here know the rules as they apply to the Freedom Pass and the overground rail services on Network South East?  Trying to get a definitive answer from anyone official is like asking for directions to the holy grail.

I use my pass daily on the overground and the scanner lets me out of London Bridge every morning before 9.30.  I have always believed my (disabled) pass to be valid for 24 hours but yesterday I got out at Waterloo East and was charged for a ticket.  I entered at London Bridge and they called me a liar claiming the barrier would not have let me in.  It does, I can assure you.  Then after taking my address they wanted me to pay from Lewisham.  Odd because I took the tube from Bermondsey to London Bridge after staying at a friend's house the previous night.  Eventually after much protesting, and in the face of intimidating tactics from a combination of overzealous rail officials, PCSOs and BTP who wanted to interview me under caution, I paid the £2.30 they wanted.  Being called a 'liar by some officious twat while I'm leaning on a stick visibly unwell has rather irritated me and I intend to complain and find out where I stand legally.  

My terms and conditions state free travel on TfL buses, Tube, DLR, trams and London Overground.  Waterloo officials claim they are not London Overground.  If anyone can shed any light on this, I'd be most grateful.


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## teuchter (Sep 24, 2008)

chico enrico said:


> i'd love to see ticket inspectors given a good kicking then they wouldn't be so eager to stop punters. It's a disgrace and a shame this doesn't happen in london more often. You don't see many ticket inspectors on the trains in any European city and i bet that's cos if they tried it on there they'd get battered.



0/10


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## Badgers (Sep 24, 2008)

sarahluv said:


> ah, but PAYG isn't valid on all national rail services. i lifted the wrong oyster card on day and had my PAYG rather than my travelcard. £20 fine



 

First leg of my journey is bus to Oval and/or Vauxhall so if I forget then I have a few quid on the PAYG to cover the bus. Guess if I was jumping straight on the overhead I would get fned too.


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## ethel (Sep 24, 2008)

waterloo are not london Overground. only the stations on the orange line on the tube map are. all in north london.


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## teuchter (Sep 24, 2008)

monsterbunny said:


> Does anyone here know the rules as they apply to the Freedom Pass and the overground rail services on Network South East?  Trying to get a definitive answer from anyone official is like asking for directions to the holy grail.
> 
> I use my pass daily on the overground and the scanner lets me out of London Bridge every morning before 9.30.  I have always believed my (disabled) pass to be valid for 24 hours but yesterday I got out at Waterloo East and was charged for a ticket.  I entered at London Bridge and they called me a liar claiming the barrier would not have let me in.  It does, I can assure you.  Then after taking my address they wanted me to pay from Lewisham.  Odd because I took the tube from Bermondsey to London Bridge after staying at a friend's house the previous night.  Eventually after much protesting, and in the face of intimidating tactics from a combination of overzealous rail officials, PCSOs and BTP who wanted to interview me under caution, I paid the £2.30 they wanted.  Being called a 'liar by some officious twat while I'm leaning on a stick visibly unwell has rather irritated me and I intend to complain and find out where I stand legally.
> 
> My terms and conditions state free travel on TfL buses, Tube, DLR, trams and London Overground.  Waterloo officials claim they are not London Overground.  If anyone can shed any light on this, I'd be most grateful.



http://www.freedompass.org/documents/FPDFreedomPassv3.pdf


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## kyser_soze (Sep 24, 2008)

sarahluv said:


> ah, but PAYG isn't valid on all national rail services. i lifted the wrong oyster card on day and had my PAYG rather than my travelcard. £20 fine



Why would you have 2 Oyster cards? Why make life harder? You can have pre-pay and a travelcard on the same oyster you know...

Can I just say as well - if the ticket bods are out at Lpool st as often as everyone says they are, then regular commuters will know they're always going to get fined therefore it would make sense to ensure that you have a valid ticket, no? 



> I dunno I got frog marched to a cash point in Vienna last week to pay a 70 Euro fine all because my ticket was an hour out of date!!



Innit? I think that people seem to believe that because Europe's trains are largely nationalised that there is some kind of 'Ah, let them off' attitude, whereas IME the regime is, if anything, even tougher than the UK.

Also - unless it specifically says at the station 'You can use PAYG from here', just assume you can't...it's easier...


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## rutabowa (Sep 24, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Can I just say as well - if the ticket bods are out at Lpool st as often as everyone says they are, then regular commuters will know they're always going to get fined therefore it would make sense to ensure that you have a valid ticket, no?


people make mistakes. the complaint is that the fining system is designed to catch usually honest commuters who have obviously made a mistake, rather than people who are trying to dodge fares.


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## ethel (Sep 24, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Why would you have 2 Oyster cards? Why make life harder? You can have pre-pay and a travelcard on the same oyster you know...



sorry i didn't make it very clear. i have a spare prepay in case i lose my travelcard one. my travelcard one does also have prepay on it. i was half asleep and lifted the wrong one.


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## poster342002 (Sep 24, 2008)

kyser_soze is just defending the indefensible for some pedantic reason of his/her own. Pay no attention.


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## kyser_soze (Sep 24, 2008)

rutabowa said:


> people make mistakes. the complaint is that the fining system is designed to catch usually honest commuters who have obviously made a mistake, rather than people who are trying to dodge fares.



So how to tell an 'honest' commuter from someone deliberately fare dodging?


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## rutabowa (Sep 24, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> So how to tell an 'honest' commuter from someone deliberately fare dodging?


i'm not going to go round in circles.


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## two sheds (Sep 24, 2008)

rutabowa said:


> i'm not going to go round in circles.



That's the one coloured green on the maps i know that one


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## chico enrico (Sep 24, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Innit? I think that people seem to believe that because Europe's trains are largely nationalised that there is some kind of 'Ah, let them off' attitude, whereas IME the regime is, if anything, even tougher than the UK.



bollocks, in paris, milan, prague and loads of places i've been during rush hours they just leave the gates open, and also at other times someone with a ticket will just leave it in there for everyone else to get through free after them. 

if you got frogmarched to a cashpoint to get out 70 euros more the mug you. i'd have told them to fuck off any they could nick me and odds on i'd have walked. 

maybe they just clocked you were a brit and as such supine and rich pickings for any wanker in a uniform to plunder the pockets of.


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## rutabowa (Sep 24, 2008)

two sheds said:


> That's the one coloured green on the maps i know that one



yellow.


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## two sheds (Sep 24, 2008)

rutabowa said:


> yellow.



I thought that was Districk


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## Treacle Toes (Sep 24, 2008)

two sheds said:


> I thought that was Districk



Cirle = yellow
Drstrict = green


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## two sheds (Sep 24, 2008)

Rutita1 said:


> Cirle = yellow
> Drstrict = green



I don't do well on the tube.


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## detective-boy (Sep 24, 2008)

pk said:


> Not lately he isn't!


 ... and I wonder why the _fuck_ that might be ...

CLUE:  Fuckwits like you and longdog who now rule the place and who make sensible comment and debate impossible ...


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## maximilian ping (Sep 24, 2008)

chico enrico said:


> they're just fucking scum. jobsworth lick-spittle wankers. i always delight in giving them a load of abuse whenever they stop me (always something about their personal appearance to hopefully spoil their day )and if i'm not on a rush telling them they can get to fuck until the get the copper over who i give more abuse as since when have the old bill become a private security/revenue collection company for LRT.
> 
> i'd love to see ticket inspectors given a good kicking then they wouldn't be so eager to stop punters. It's a disgrace and a shame this doesn't happen in london more often. You don't see many ticket inspectors on the trains in any European city and i bet that's cos if they tried it on there they'd get battered.



sometimes i feel like this is what they deserve, especially when they would rather make someone cry than let them buy a ticket


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## monsterbunny (Sep 24, 2008)

Teuchter.  A huge thank you for clearing up my addled interpretation of the rules.  One link from a talkboard contributor and I know exactly where I stand.  I've spent nigh on two days trying to get any kind of fucking sense from the tosspots answering the travel helplines.  Much obliged.


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## maximilian ping (Sep 24, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> So how to tell an 'honest' commuter from someone deliberately fare dodging?



fuck me read the thread. if i was a fare dodger why would i go up to a gate humming with ticket inpsectors with a just-expired one month oyster card and so it beeps really loudly and then i ask someone for help. this is the action (backed up with the evidence of a monthly pass that expired today) of someone who forgot to renew the fucker. 

a fare evader, god bless em, may try i slightly different, altogether more evasion-friendly tactic. geddit?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 24, 2008)

They do this at East Croydon too. In a way it's even worse there because despite having the oyster swipers for season ticket holders, regular swiping one journey oyster customers get hit for the £20 fine for not knowing that they didn't work at this one particular station. 

I got hit for the season ticket thing and got a fine. I have since figured out it is in fact cheaper for me to buy a ticket every day anyway, even more so now I cycle as much as I can instead.


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## Al Kahul (Sep 24, 2008)

Some years back Classwar published an article by an ex London Regional Transport "revenue protection officer" pen named "blakey" aboput how to avoid paying them.

Could our resident CW members perhaps print it here for us ?


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## longdog (Sep 24, 2008)

detective-boy said:


> ... and I wonder why the _fuck_ that might be ...
> 
> CLUE:  Fuckwits like you and longdog who now rule the place and who make sensible comment and debate impossible ...



So...

Not content with following me around the boards calling me a cunt you are now doing it on threads I haven't even posted on 

You're obsessed dear.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 24, 2008)

Al Kahul said:


> Some years back Classwar published an article by an ex London Regional Transport "revenue protection officer" pen named "blakey" aboput how to avoid paying them.
> 
> Could our resident CW members perhaps print it here for us ?



Punch them as hard as you can on the point of their jaw and leg it?


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## chico enrico (Sep 24, 2008)

Al Kahul said:


> Some years back Classwar published an article by an ex London Regional Transport "revenue protection officer" pen named "blakey" aboput how to avoid paying them.
> 
> Could our resident CW members perhaps print it here for us ?



i'd never heard of that. Would be interested to see it too. that said that i suspect its origin isn't exactly genuine, much like the 'anarchist' policemen and prison officers in publications of yore


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